Jocko Podcast 89 w/ Mike Thornton. Vietnam Medal Of Honor. Take Care Of Your Team

2017-08-29T06:45:52Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:57 - Mike Thornton 0:19:26 - Why the Military? 0:24:42 - The Teams and Leadership. 0:26:58 - Vietnam. 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:57 - Mike Thornton 0:19:26 - Why the Military? 0:24:42 - The Teams and Leadership. 0:26:58 - Vietnam.

AI summary of episode

But you know a loss of any team mate as you know as well as I do that like Mikey and and every time you know every time I lose even a new kid today which I've been out speaking to their class and stuff like that you lose a little bit more your heart. He's a guy kind of like I looked up to my father he was my sea daddy and he was always there for all of us and me and last night Tom Boyhand and me and Wayne Hampton and Mike Lechraas and how Kirkendall we're all getting a picture together and then remembering the great guys and we're all we're talking about Barry of course Barry fell past the way a few years ago and he's another guy you know it's like I say. Yeah, it's interesting to me, that I would, I think guys would feel more afraid when we were getting ready to go in the field, when even me, you know, when you have time to think, like, oh, we're going down the street, which is had, you know, 17 ID's on in the last four days. And that deployment what were you guys doing you guys were doing we guys deploying off of boats were you guys going in helicopters you guys going on foot patrols a little bit everything a little bit everything foot patrols basically sand pans. And so you guys decide or Tom, you know, let's you know, hey, let's do a small small group you're going to take five guys. You know how like when you listen, you're like, okay, you know, you kind of get a feel, but there's nothing in your heart of it. Then you got to go through the dam door and after you get through the door you got to prove yourself and like like you were saying we're a nobody back then you know if you had to have a couple of tours of it. So, you know, you know, have to be like, hey, made in America, but then, you know, it's closer or whatever. So even with all that action you guys went through the deployment with you know what did you take a few wounded guys but nobody was killed and actually we were always down at sea float and rich Solano was working with a gulf platoon I think and that was when the helicopter went down and of course when you come off a hot LZ And you know, you look at the guys are and Joe and those guys, of course, you know, he lost his life in a very basic operation. He's great big old black guy and the strongest of damn ox and you know actually events was one of the original sales in 1962 and he went over to Vietnam or course back then they didn't know what they were doing with the sales and they're not pretty time. And, you know, and the thing is, is that, it's like we go back to what we are, and the camaraderie, and going through training, and why we do things, and you're thanks like that. But you said I said I said I said I said I said I'm going back to bed. Well, you know, I mean, how proud all you guys were when we were there that molossin and you guys were saving your words and the Pentagon, you know, after Mike E. Montzure. You're not going to have like this these weird extra things like I don't know. it's it's you had like the classic case of the judge telling you all right son you can either join the Navy or we're going to find a place that you're not going to like so much as home You know, Tony Frady, who is the Charlie Petir and Chief, we used to talk about Mike Forton and we'd say, you know, just on random days, we'd say, hey, you know what Mike Forton's doing today? And then we would send the guys that need help should be going so we'd like rich solano myself and a bunch of the guys we'd go out and help other patents and stuff and were you a 60 gunner. And then he bought me beer and treated me like I was his brother the man himself treating a pathetic new guy like me like I was one of his long lost buddies. I used to ask guys what you've been working for my father for 30 years you know he said because he and my dad always told me this and that's what I tried to do when I was in the team take care of your people your people will take care of you. And, you know, Mike again, um, like everyone's going to want to tell you and it tells you all the time. yet and at seal team one at the time as I have accounted over and over again we knew guys pretty much got treated like worthless scum. When guys like Gary Gallagher and Walt Gustavl and Doc Seal came up to you and said, Nice job over there or good work getting your lieutenant back off that beach. I know that so it's like you say you, you know, if you die, which we're all, we understand what our job is, that being Navy sales, but I can never live with myself, no one that fused that. and it's like, you know, then I don't know how up to date you are on the new jump rope. And as was instilled us, you know, Tom Boyhand was saying last night, you said, you know, I don't think you're in New York, fear was. And it's like flickin' the switch, you know, why switch, you get your mind, and know what your supposed to be doin'. So you got a seal out there on the boats that are going to be recovering you because it's a guy that you know it's a guy that you trust. It's like the, you're going to kind of come out with almost like a life kit. And so they had actually, as they were calling in this Naval Gunfire, Tommy was like, seeing guys coming and like through the grace of God, a one big round hit there. And he said, I'd like to make a choice in uncle Dave said, well, I bet you I know who it is. I always told guys look if you want to be you know if you want to master what you do you got to go and teach it.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 89 with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening echo. Good evening.
[00:00:11] I was sitting in my tactical operation center in Ramadi alone.
[00:00:20] I was staring at a document on my computer and I had to keep wiping tears from my face as I read it.
[00:00:36] The document had been submitted to me by the Delta Platoon Commander.
[00:00:42] They was in a ward recommendation for Michael Mansour.
[00:00:52] And the award was the Medal of Honor for Mikey.
[00:01:00] He had been sitting on an outcropping of a roof in South Ramadi on an Overwatch and a grenade which had been thrown from an unseen location.
[00:01:18] Actually hit him in the chest and fell to the ground in front of him.
[00:01:24] And he could have jumped away from the grenade and he could have saved himself.
[00:01:33] But if you had done that, his teammates that were positioned next to him, they would have been exposed to that blast.
[00:01:46] So instead of moving away from the grenade, Mikey jumped on the grenade.
[00:01:55] He smothered it.
[00:01:58] And he absorbed its lethal explosion.
[00:02:04] They're by saving our teammates.
[00:02:17] The morning that it happened September 29th, 2006, I got a call from the Battalion Commander from the first to the 506, an outstanding officer and leader that I respected and admired.
[00:02:41] And this element from Delta Platoon had been in the field receiving fire and returning fire most in the morning, which was nothing new or nothing unusual.
[00:02:51] But it had escalated.
[00:02:54] And I knew that there had been trouble and when the Colonel called me.
[00:03:02] He told me that there had been a bad fight.
[00:03:07] And then he went down the list of my men describing quickly what their wounds were and what their status was and pretty much telling me that they were going to be okay.
[00:03:21] Until he got to Mikey.
[00:03:26] And I could hear a shift in his voice.
[00:03:35] He became very grave and very serious.
[00:03:41] I could hear the sympathy in it.
[00:03:47] And I knew what was coming.
[00:03:50] Mikey got hit bad.
[00:03:56] He got hit really bad, Jockel.
[00:04:02] And I don't think he's going to make it.
[00:04:04] In my heart jumped through my chest and then it sank back down to my stomach and then erupted into my brain in a madning rush of anger and horror and gut wrenching sadness.
[00:04:26] And I grabbed all that insanity and all that emotion and I pulled it back into my mind and I held it down there while I uttered the only words that I could muster.
[00:04:46] Roger that, sir.
[00:04:50] And when the Delta Platoon commander who's one of my best friends and a very close friend of Mikey's when he called me we were mechanical.
[00:05:05] We had worked to do.
[00:05:09] He debriefed me.
[00:05:11] I listened.
[00:05:12] We discussed the follow up and the next steps and the resupply and the operational impact of the casualties.
[00:05:27] And the next day I talked to one of the seal officers that Mikey had saved.
[00:05:33] I talked to him on the phone because he was in Germany already.
[00:05:41] With the other seal that had been wounded badly on the rooftop both of whom would have been dead if it hadn't been from Mikey.
[00:05:50] They were only wounded and because of that they were heading home.
[00:05:55] And when I talked to this young officer he explained to me what happened with perfect clarity.
[00:06:07] Mikey could have jumped away and saved himself but he did not.
[00:06:14] His only movement was toward the grenade.
[00:06:18] Mikey did not hesitate.
[00:06:35] What kind of a man does that?
[00:06:39] When I was a brand new guy at seal team one I began to learn and understand what kind of man did that.
[00:06:56] You see, as a young enlisted seal at seal team one there were two pictures on the quarter deck.
[00:07:05] Just two.
[00:07:09] The pictures were of seal team ones Medal of Honor recipients.
[00:07:15] Lieutenant Bob Carrey and Petty Officer second class Mike Thorden.
[00:07:21] And we young guys we memorized their names as well as the name of the seal team two Medal of Honor recipient Lieutenant Tom Norris.
[00:07:36] And we read their citations over and over again and debrief them amongst ourselves.
[00:07:43] But we young enlisted seals we focused on on Mike Thorden.
[00:08:00] He was an enlisted man like we were.
[00:08:05] And we had heard about him.
[00:08:13] Then he was a legend not only for his actions but for his reputation as a seal as an operator as a leader as an all around badass frog man that we all aspired to be.
[00:08:27] As a young enlisted seal he was the mark he was the example.
[00:08:36] He was Mike Thorden.
[00:08:40] And a few months after checking into seal team one.
[00:08:46] I was in Virginia Beach.
[00:08:48] I was going to a school at the Navy base there on Little Creek and one day after work we went to a place called Papa's Pub.
[00:08:59] Now mind you I wasn't even old enough to get in but the the chief snuck me in there.
[00:09:05] And as we were sitting there having some food and talking a handful of other seals walked in and they were wearing their full dress choker whites.
[00:09:19] And one of them was a big monster of a man and he had a rack of ribbons up to his shoulder and the Medal of Honor around his neck and I knew exactly who it was.
[00:09:29] It was Mike Thorden.
[00:09:34] Right there in front of me the ultimate seal the ultimate hero standing there in the flesh.
[00:09:42] Then my chief looked and he saw how awestruck I was and he told me to go over there and say hi.
[00:09:48] And I was a new guy and I didn't have my tried it yet and at seal team one at the time as I have accounted over and over again we knew guys pretty much got treated like worthless scum.
[00:10:06] But when I introduce myself to Mike Thorden slap me on the back and said welcome to the teams and then he told me I'm from team one two.
[00:10:20] And then he bought me beer and treated me like I was his brother the man himself treating a pathetic new guy like me like I was one of his long lost buddies.
[00:10:38] And I never forgot that attitude and that humility.
[00:10:51] And I would see Mike Thorden occasionally over the years and I swear and always seemed like he remembered me at least in my mind.
[00:10:58] But years later he actually did get to know me a little bit when Mikey Montsource parents received the Medal of Honor from President Bush and the White House I was.
[00:11:12] And after that solemn ceremony. Well we went and we drank and we raised hell and we raised our glasses to Mikey into the rest of our fallen brothers and Mike Thorden treated me and the rest of our task unit.
[00:11:38] The same way he treated me when I first met him.
[00:11:43] Like we were all brothers.
[00:11:48] And that night.
[00:11:52] Now that I had seen combat myself and seen with my own eyes the bravery and the selflessness and the sacrifice that is the very core of our community.
[00:12:06] I finally understood why Mike Thorden treated us all like brothers.
[00:12:15] It's because we were.
[00:12:19] And we are.
[00:12:22] And with that it is.
[00:12:32] On absolute honor to have.
[00:12:35] Here tonight.
[00:12:38] I hear him.
[00:12:40] A legend.
[00:12:42] A patriot.
[00:12:44] And someone I'm so proud to be able to call brother retired seal and Medal of Honor recipient Mike Thorden.
[00:12:57] Sir.
[00:13:00] Welcome aboard.
[00:13:02] Thanks, Chocca.
[00:13:03] Thanks, El.
[00:13:05] And my honor to be here too.
[00:13:07] I'm.
[00:13:15] I'm.
[00:13:18] I'm.
[00:13:21] I'm.
[00:13:24] I'm.
[00:13:29] I'm.
[00:13:30] I'm.
[00:13:39] I'm.
[00:13:41] I'm.
[00:13:46] I'm.
[00:13:49] I'm.
[00:13:52] I'm.
[00:13:54] I'm.
[00:13:57] So.
[00:14:00] You recently had a book come out.
[00:14:03] Which is awesome.
[00:14:04] And you wrote it with your fellow teammate and and fellow Medal of Honor winner Tom Norris.
[00:14:10] And also with another sealed dick couch.
[00:14:14] And and the book is called by honor bound.
[00:14:18] And you know for me.
[00:14:20] You know I was talking about this before the podcast before we started recording.
[00:14:23] You even though you want to know that get these really good debriefs in the seal teams and you think that there was a a fault with all these great debriefs and that explained to you everything that happened on certain missions, especially highly important missions.
[00:14:38] You think that that existed, but it actually doesn't exist.
[00:14:41] And for me this book was like the detail debrief that I always wanted to have, you know, not only the operation that you did with Tommy, but also don't want that Tommy conducted by himself.
[00:14:55] And and both of them are just so well detailed in here and it's just a phenomenal book to get that kind of granular detail of what you live through that like I said, even being in the seal teams myself for 20 years.
[00:15:11] I never had as good of an understanding at all as I have these operations now so thank you for writing it and you know I want to dive into it a little bit because that's kind of what I do on this podcast is that I think it's better.
[00:15:23] And so it's you know I had to jump around a little bit, but just talking about your background and where you came from growing up in South Carolina.
[00:15:34] Yeah correct I was born and raised in the hills of South Carolina and my my father was my hero of all times you only had a six great education and my dad was in the Philippines from 39 and he got left in the Philippines after my carthip pulled out and he was one of the raiders over there they did a movie and I see he only had a six great education but he's a guy that everybody respected he had his own company and.
[00:16:04] I used to ask guys what you've been working for my father for 30 years you know he said because he and my dad always told me this and that's what I tried to do when I was in the team take care of your people your people will take care of you.
[00:16:18] And my mother gave us love and religion and and but daddy was hard as rocks and but you had the greatest respect for that man and everybody else and you my father had the same respect for him.
[00:16:31] Now you mentioned that your dad.
[00:16:35] You know had a six education obviously he was he was a hero to you in a successful guy and was able to put things together in his life.
[00:16:42] And well did he ever talk about what he did in the PI not until I had been wounded several times and during my second tour overseas and he said.
[00:16:51] He said I think you'll understand this and I said daddy I understood the first time I was ever wounded so.
[00:17:02] You know wounded in 1939 or wounded in 1969 or wounded in today's war I think it brings a reality that war sucks in what you look at it.
[00:17:12] Yeah there's no doubt about that I guess your dad wanted you to earn being able to hear good stories from him but you got to get wounded before I'm going to tell you to think more than one.
[00:17:24] That's a hard man right there.
[00:17:26] Now I'm going to the book a little bit this is you talking I didn't do that well in school.
[00:17:31] I couldn't read and I still have problems with it I'm dyslexic back then they didn't call it that you were just dumb.
[00:17:38] For me it meant that I simply couldn't keep up in school I did okay in math but that was probably the only thing I loved history otherwise I did poorly.
[00:17:48] I had to repeat myself more year in high school and that really hurt my pride so it's no wonder I got in with the wrong crowd and started getting into trouble nothing serious but we were mischievous.
[00:17:58] Southern country boys drinking beer and making bad decisions the sheriff was out the house a few times and there were was a time or two in juvenile court and I caught a lot of classes.
[00:18:12] I had 72 absences in my senior year in high school that's it pretty pretty legit record.
[00:18:18] Well you could only miss 30 in the automatically failed but I think they want to see me coming back so you know to that dyslexia and thank God we found out what it really is and actually I've never even read the book my wife read it to me five times and I'd make the changes and stuff like that but I do have it on tape and if I hear something I understand it but.
[00:18:45] I'm trying to say in that it's like young men know.
[00:18:51] You may have it tough but you can redo this so I've been a successful businessman.
[00:18:58] I went all the way through the ranks and I got a commission and I did this and I'm just trying to say there's only one in that's what I tell these kids when they go through training but you know that.
[00:19:07] I was only one person to go stop you and not sure so there's always to get across that obstacle under it around it on top of it one way the other so don't let something stop you.
[00:19:18] And and for you to move forward and make a better life for yourself and your family awesome awesome orders right there now speaking of.
[00:19:27] You know moving forward it's it's you had like the classic case of the judge telling you all right son you can either join the Navy or we're going to find a place that you're not going to like so much as home well I didn't know this.
[00:19:42] I was like 20 years later my father's probably told me him in the juvenile judge was a they were friends with each other and he said I'll let you make your first major decision go to juvenile.
[00:19:56] And you know juvenile hall or I could turn around and make the first major decision in my life and I'd saw that crazy movie the five Sullivan brothers turned wallwork to the nice other movie the Navy frogman with Richard workmark.
[00:20:11] And I turned around I said I've always wanted to be a UDT frogman and I've sluded and the guy the guy that in listed me was a second class machine to submit.
[00:20:25] And Ned his name was Ned Johnson and when he retired he was back as an eight nine he was the senior and listed for recruiting the state of South Carolina and he tells everybody I he made Mike Thornton who he was today.
[00:20:39] And that's that's then and so you come in and did you you just went boot camp and then straight to Buds or you guys didn't have Buds you guys called it.
[00:20:48] Underwater demolition recruit train I was supposed to go I was trying to go straight from there they said no we and you have to go to outside.
[00:20:59] And I like I say my dyslexia was pretty bad and I had to get a 10 point waiver just to get into the teams and they must have needed people pretty damn bad because I finally got my way around I was in Hawaii and I came back to corn I don't want to try and.
[00:21:16] And I was thinking about you know going through training here's here's a quote from you coming through training we had some instructors who are not only good teachers but they were real characters there was Vince a live era.
[00:21:31] Who is part American Indian and a plank holder at sealed team one he called us pale faces and we stood in awe and fear of instructor live here.
[00:21:45] And he went to the party with Muhammad Ali when Ali was asked once who hit him the hardest he said it was a chief petty officer in the in the US Navy named Dick Allen.
[00:22:00] And as his few is always watching us making sure everything we did was that we put out a hundred percent so what I was thinking about during this was when I went through I went through a ninety ninety one and there was.
[00:22:14] Clearly there were some rules in place but also the instructors kind of did what they wanted to and what the command wasn't watching there's clearly there's more rules and oversight now I've seen that with my own eyes.
[00:22:28] I can't even imagine what it was like when you were going through him at the instructors must have just been able to do whatever the hell they wanted to do to you guys. I tell you events all over the most sadistic son of a bitch ever met my life I tell you and I was just with Terry more the last two days of course this is reunion weekend.
[00:22:45] Terry still looks like a gladiator as he did back then and Dick Allen used to hang us from the pull up bar and he'd punch us in the stomach but I tell you if you didn't keep her hands loose.
[00:22:57] I mean if you didn't keep your hands loose he'd kill you and then of course the Dick and then events and Dick both have passed and but there there there memories and is a funny thing about life itself you know and it's not what you've done.
[00:23:14] This is the respect you want to gain from the teammates and Dick and Terry and events all grain game my respect and my love and they'll always always might thorns a lot of the stories will continue going on.
[00:23:30] That's what I want from my peers to remember who might thorn is and that's what those guys taught me.
[00:23:39] Yeah with those guys when those guys Vietnam vats where they Korean war vats both a little bit of everything.
[00:23:47] Vietnam vats and there's Tommy hatching in there too they used to call Tommy and I after I got the teams to solve pepper.
[00:23:53] He's great big old black guy and the strongest of damn ox and you know actually events was one of the original sales in 1962 and he went over to
[00:24:05] Vietnam or course back then they didn't know what they were doing with the sales and they're not pretty time.
[00:24:11] So you get done with buds and I'm going to the book here there were 22 guys who graduated in my class 18 from the original 129.
[00:24:20] I remember how lucky and proud I felt as I was given orders to seal team one even back then it was no small thing being a Navy seal.
[00:24:29] One thing to be a seal and yet another to do the work of the seal.
[00:24:35] I thought that was an important little highlight there of like when you get done with buds it's just the beginning really.
[00:24:44] Correct it's just you just cracked open the door.
[00:24:47] Then you got to go through the dam door and after you get through the door you got to prove yourself and like like you were saying we're a nobody back then you know if you had to have a couple of tours of it.
[00:24:58] You were just trash as far as over.
[00:25:01] Yeah so going to the book my first platoon was Charlie Patoon we were in country from 1969 through from December 1969 through July 1970 we worked out of a place called Don Island and it was a great deployment.
[00:25:16] We had solid platoon officers in our platoon pediah leading pediah officer was Barry Enoch one of the finest seal operators at team one when I made my first deployment he was my sea daddy.
[00:25:27] It was the same for all of us on our first combat tour and it was an active tour seems like every other night we'd be out most of the time we made contact.
[00:25:35] I remember we took down a few province level vehicle on cadre types and one time we had a good intelligence we were able to take down an entire VC grenade factory.
[00:25:44] It was great. So that was your first deployment when you talk about Barry Enoch and actually how Kukendall talks about as well.
[00:25:53] I says us as new guys even the veterans we worshiped Barry Enoch he was a great leader and a great teacher what was it about him that made him just that made you guys remember him and revere him so much.
[00:26:03] Well I think it's like you were talking about me and you're great in your dugs and which I don't deserve that but Barry was a leader he took care of everybody.
[00:26:13] He's a guy kind of like I looked up to my father he was my sea daddy and he was always there for all of us and me and last night Tom Boyhand and me and Wayne Hampton and Mike Lechraas and how Kirkendall we're all getting a picture together and then remembering the great guys and we're all we're talking about Barry of course Barry fell past the way a few years ago and he's another guy you know it's like I say.
[00:26:42] He'll always been all our conversations and somebody we all looked up to you know.
[00:26:49] It's a great leadership I mean he showed us and not just the leadership as a leader but the leadership he showed us to try be a better person.
[00:27:00] And that deployment what were you guys doing you guys were doing we guys deploying off of boats were you guys going in helicopters you guys going on foot patrols a little bit everything a little bit everything foot patrols basically sand pans.
[00:27:11] The wailers by that time we finally got the LSS Cs which were in the late and then the medium support seal support craft course we had the mighty mo a lot of our stuff was the mighty mo it was a Mike big Mike and then and had the you see it had all the.
[00:27:30] Rebarb about 20 inches out so if you got hit by an RNG it exploded there instead of going through the whole we did a lot of like I was working down that.
[00:27:41] And then the C flow was to the first with the KCS is because back then we didn't have that many seals so we would help each other we if they say we need help we'd.
[00:27:56] And then we would send the guys that need help should be going so we'd like rich solano myself and a bunch of the guys we'd go out and help other patents and stuff and were you a 60 gunner.
[00:28:11] And then we would carry a car 15 but always care to Swedish K with me all the time on a pistol all is that back up.
[00:28:27] That's what we had that I got a grenade factory Mike he's saying is jumped out and he had a 60 he didn't lock down he didn't lock down his as hitch and his is jumped out of the boat is barrel fell out and the water in the river and he's down there digging he's yelling give me one of your guns as a hell no I'm keeping all my guns.
[00:28:54] And we all learned and Mike was a great M60 guy he saved our ass as many times and everybody did their job is just as you were saying while he was a team effort and my life was saved by people like Mike Lecos and other people in our pertinent and we backed each other up all the time.
[00:29:15] And that was a super active actually how how Kirk and all it was talking about you here in the book this is how talking I can remember more than one firefight where we were shooting and ducking sometimes more ducking than shooting.
[00:29:30] But Mike would be right there working that 60 with a big grin on his face there were plenty of times when I was really scared but I'm not sure Mike ever was. He was reliable and brave but I'm not sure he ever knew or understood fear like the rest of us.
[00:29:45] He was a great teammate and my god he was strong none of us could believe how much ammo he carried sometimes he'd go out with a thousand rounds or more that's close to 80 pounds of just ammo and he'd swim canals with that load.
[00:30:00] Just shrug and say you don't want your 60 gunner run out of ammo do you we got through a pretty active deployment with no one getting killed. Then a couple of guys stayed behind to break in the new platoon while the rest of us packed up and left.
[00:30:16] They were two of our best and one of them was killed in a helo crash with three other seals. We took it hard when rich Solano was killed but I think Mike took it the hardest Mike was a guy who really cared for his teammates.
[00:30:34] So even with all that action you guys went through the deployment with you know what did you take a few wounded guys but nobody was killed and actually we were always down at sea float and rich Solano was working with a gulf platoon I think and that was when the helicopter went down and of course when you come off a hot LZ you're supposed to shut down your aircraft and check the rotor blades because back then the rotor blades could have a hole and it could last for two years.
[00:31:03] It could last for thirty minutes or forty five or an hour and the the pilot the helo when you get back for birthday party or something and the helo found and actually rich was killed and Dirlin was killed and Toby Thomas was killed.
[00:31:28] The helo and the helo was there. Gardner was killed so that was one of our biggest we lost five guys that they not four we lost five and I went down and identified the bodies and it was you know I only had one bad dream of my whole life and it was after identifying that because rich whole face was completely gone and the way I could identify me he had a scorer on his arm.
[00:31:54] But you know a loss of any team mate as you know as well as I do that like Mikey and and every time you know every time I lose even a new kid today which I've been out speaking to their class and stuff like that you lose a little bit more your heart.
[00:32:11] I've got to know how much more of my heart I got to lose but it takes it out of it I mean it is I don't want to see anybody ever get hurt or especially a loss of a loved one and they're all.
[00:32:25] Their their life for just as important to me with the new kids today has rich and all those guys were important to me back then.
[00:32:35] You you come home from that deployment and you go into a.
[00:32:41] Seal team one.
[00:32:43] Codray which we actually have talked about on here with Roger Hayden because we still we when I was a at Seal team one and I was in training cell we still called at cadre and that was I don't know 20 something years later and I never even.
[00:32:56] I've made the connection and Roger and I talked about the fact that you know some of the training that you guys implemented back there the the point man course we're walking through and the trip wires are there and all that we still did that a lot of the demo we still did.
[00:33:13] But that's what you did when you got home you went into that training cell being cadre and teaching and you know you mentioned here that you learned a lot being instructor and I always.
[00:33:23] I was agree with that in fact when when I was in the sealed teams no one wanted to go the training department right we all wanted to just deploy just deploy just deploy so when I took over the training.
[00:33:32] I always told guys look if you want to be you know if you want to master what you do you got to go and teach it.
[00:33:39] You know you also mentioned al hui in here and when I went through buds.
[00:33:45] When we were at San Clemente Island every night when the sun goes down we'd sing the song good night al hui good night al hui good night al hui wherever you may be and I never knew.
[00:33:56] And still don't know who al hui is.
[00:33:59] I don't know you.
[00:34:00] Other than the campus called al hui it's called camp al hui out there and honestly I make my kids sing this song when the sun goes down.
[00:34:09] My me and my kids we sing this song.
[00:34:12] I'm sure you've heard a day shibley come to our shibley and Alan and Dave were best friends and.
[00:34:21] I was another mentor like Barry not to me and they went through class two of UDT back in the 50s and never of all in Korean stuff and he led by example again you know but.
[00:34:35] I mean it's kind of like when he talks better be like EF Hut better be listening keeping your ears wide open and just.
[00:34:42] And then you you from cadre you had a chance you went back and deployed again but you went to Thailand and we can teach in the Thai seals we took train the Thai seals I was along with Dick Flanagan and one of the finest officers as Tom Boyan was.
[00:35:08] Great officer great leader and hours with us on that that's reason why Alan I were so close and we train the Thai UDT and the Silt team textures and then they went up and the work of the borders.
[00:35:25] So that's all I can say about that.
[00:35:27] Yeah and understood and then you got home from that.
[00:35:32] I looked like the war in Vietnam was kind of winding down and there weren't full seal patterns deploying anymore no more silpitans on the basically what we were doing over.
[00:35:40] We were sending in listed LDNN advisors and like a bunch of the guys that were over there with me on that tour was.
[00:35:50] It was at the reunion and it was kind of funny to get together and and talk with all of them you know and talk about.
[00:36:02] But we've lost a lot of those guys which have passed through age or cancer or something and you know.
[00:36:05] It's just one of the things about the reunion you know none of us are getting any damage under so you better get out and see your shipmates any time you get a chance.
[00:36:13] Yeah. The LDNN you mentioned and just to everyone knows what that those are like Vietnamese south Vietnamese seals and the LDN is just for loing and die is what it actually in Vietnamese.
[00:36:28] What does that mean like a warrior from the sea or something like that?
[00:36:30] Yeah, it's just a type of yeah.
[00:36:32] So you get a chance to go back again and this is funny because typical seal you know it's like oh we need to go back on to point again yes I'll go.
[00:36:42] Yeah.
[00:36:43] I'm going back to the book so when I got to Vietnam this time I spent close to a week at Nautrain working with the LDNNs there getting a feel for the what they were doing in the field.
[00:36:56] I'd work with the Vietnamese seals on my first tour back in 1969 and I saw a few familiar faces.
[00:37:03] You have to hand it to those guys for them there were no combat rotations life was combat 24 seven year in year out.
[00:37:14] They fought until they were killed or as it worked out in the end we lost the war.
[00:37:22] So those are the guys you're working with and I think it's I mean you get into the relationship that you formed with these guys which was you know they were all their brothers.
[00:37:32] Yep, they were that you took care of them they took care of you and of course the reason I feel that Tommy and I still love today is cause of dain and quon which I explained the book they were.
[00:37:43] I'd work with them on previous chores and many operations and they were there there just like one of us I mean they took care of me so that's reason I hand picked those two guys.
[00:37:53] That was dain and quon.
[00:37:55] Those were those guys that you had worked with before.
[00:37:57] Yeah.
[00:37:58] Vietnamese seals and so you get to a two-in-one I'm saying that right.
[00:38:03] Two-in-one.
[00:38:04] Two-in-one.
[00:38:05] Okay, so you get to two-in-one this is where you're going to be working out of and again you're not in the seal.
[00:38:09] This is a totally different situation and what you had there in two-in-one if I gathered it all correctly you had five in listed seals from seal team one.
[00:38:19] And then you had two seal team two officers and in plus with those two seal team two officers who were sound like they were more junior guys maybe it was their first deployment.
[00:38:30] But then Tommy Norris showed up as well as the OEC.
[00:38:35] Yeah.
[00:38:36] Shively captain, Tom Norris Shively, he had all the seals, UD, EOD, divers everybody and then Tommy Nelson was our lieutenant commander in O3 and he was the head of all the seals.
[00:38:48] Tommy was the senior seal operator in the country then we had Ryan McCombie and another lieutenant.
[00:38:56] It was there.
[00:38:57] There were all East Coast guys.
[00:39:01] Now we had, actually I think we had more like 18 in listed guys and we broke it up and Gary Gare,
[00:39:17] Chamberlain and Harry Conacula went with Lieutenant Houth down one thing.
[00:39:25] Then Ryan McCombie was our boss and I stayed up and so everybody had had many tours that went down south and I had the most tours and I stayed up north with Ryan McCombie then Tommy would go back and forth to run operations of course.
[00:39:45] It was hard to get aOs approved because you know it was pretty at that time we were fighting in Quantrie and Wacity and all that stuff and they were trying to overtake it but we're still able to get our ops and.
[00:39:59] And you had what two squads of LDNN and what made up a squad of LDNN?
[00:40:06] I think we had we had more LDNNs than we did but we separated those guys too.
[00:40:15] I know when we went on the operation, Woody was we always had a seal as you know on an insertion extraction craft and Woody had a.
[00:40:24] We only had three LDNNs on the up with us but he had another six or eight on the boat.
[00:40:31] If we needed to resupply. So and and and I got to mention this because again it's half the book of by underbound is we've been throwing Tommy Norris's name around here and when he showed up to work with you guys.
[00:40:46] He had been in country for some period of time and he had done this this multiple pilot rescue operations.
[00:40:54] The bat 21 mission in Tommy was.
[00:41:01] I say that I knew about his reputation and he knew about my reputation and it was kind of funny Tommy and I don't you're operated one time and that was that operation but we were of course still best of friends and.
[00:41:15] We resumitted Tommy was put in for a metal and it was resumitted and then he was upgraded to the metal of honor later on and.
[00:41:25] Greatest friend and he made it a rasp for and.
[00:41:29] I look back on the officers at the leadership we had on like I was saying Tom Boyhead and Captain Shabley and and Tommy and Ryan McCombie and and and Norm Carley and I'm.
[00:41:41] You know even when we were in six with more sink oh and stuff like that it was we had some great leaders you know and all those guys took care of their people that's what I really.
[00:41:53] Looked up to them for always being there for the troops you know they made to your ass up but nobody else is calling to.
[00:42:02] And that once Tommy shows up they you get the start getting the mission tasking for this mission that becomes you know the mission and the Paris peace talks were going on.
[00:42:15] But you know Tom Thomas saying that there's no at the operational level you guys were like oh that's great but it's not changing anything for us on the ground meanwhile they're you know they're attacking way city and it's just.
[00:42:28] And so. Tom goes down he gets called down by by the Commodore.
[00:42:33] Shabley Shabley to.
[00:42:36] To get a mission tasking and this is this is Tom Norris talking Uncle Dave had me take a seat in his office.
[00:42:44] That's what that's what you guys call the Commodore.
[00:42:46] Yeah, I'll be late.
[00:42:47] I never called any of my Commodore is an uncle at least not to their faces.
[00:42:51] Uncle Dave had me take a seat in his office and I could tell he had something on his mind Tom he said the Vietnamese commander of the LDNN wants to run a seal reconnaissance mission to the mouth.
[00:43:02] Of the.
[00:43:03] The.
[00:43:29] The.
[00:43:34] So that was the tasking doing the reconnaissance correct pretty normal operation.
[00:43:35] I'm it's pretty standard it sounds like you guys were running those type of operations fairly regularly.
[00:43:39] Yeah, basically the NVA had already moved across the quave at river so that was the we knew that and we knew.
[00:43:46] And they were trying to take over quantity again and and they attacked on way city that was in April and this was an October and this thing was going down so we knew was hot and heavy up there but.
[00:43:58] I thought Tom he said yes, you know, you never said no to uncle Dave.
[00:44:06] And so you guys decide or Tom, you know, let's you know, hey, let's do a small small group you're going to take five guys.
[00:44:12] Sure.
[00:44:13] Two Americans and three Vietnamese.
[00:44:15] All right.
[00:44:16] Obviously the two are you and Tom Norris and then the three the three guys that you're going to take with you the three Vietnamese that you're going to take with you.
[00:44:25] Two of them were your hands selected guys.
[00:44:28] Yeah, Juan.
[00:44:29] And then there was another officer the other guy was an officer right.
[00:44:33] Great.
[00:44:33] And he was lieutenant. I've heard you tell the story in here.
[00:44:37] He's called Lieutenant Juan.
[00:44:39] Yeah, we got a story.
[00:44:40] You were called Ty.
[00:44:41] Well, yeah, but we put a different name in there.
[00:44:43] But calls he kind of made the operation.
[00:44:46] Co-south.
[00:44:47] Got it.
[00:44:48] Got it.
[00:44:49] Uh,
[00:44:51] So here's the basic concept of operations.
[00:44:55] Well, it's really the funny part of it.
[00:44:57] Tom, he said, I'll do the mission.
[00:44:59] If you let me choose who I want to take.
[00:45:01] Oh, gosh.
[00:45:02] Back then we had a rotation basically where everybody could have chance to go in the field.
[00:45:06] And with always went in the field with the new guys and stuff.
[00:45:10] And he said, I'd like to make a choice in uncle Dave said, well,
[00:45:15] I bet you I know who it is.
[00:45:17] And he said, well, we've never operated together.
[00:45:20] So I bet just might thorn.
[00:45:21] And he said, yes sir, that's who I want to take with me on an operation.
[00:45:25] And actually Woody was supposed to be going in on that operation.
[00:45:29] And, but we took Woody on the, the insertion extraction means a transportation.
[00:45:36] And that's, that's Bill Woodruff Woodruff who you talking about.
[00:45:40] Yeah.
[00:45:41] And we'll get into what his role was.
[00:45:44] Here's the, here's the overview of the mission.
[00:45:47] And this is Tom Norris talking to us.
[00:45:49] And it was not a particularly difficult mission.
[00:45:51] And it was certainly something we'd done before.
[00:45:53] So we knew the drill in general.
[00:45:55] It was about a 50 mile transit from two Enon up the Kuivette river in our boats with a max speed of about eight knots.
[00:46:04] That was a little more than six hours.
[00:46:07] So you're talking about a six hour transit.
[00:46:08] The plan was to get well out to see.
[00:46:10] So no one on the beach could know which direction we were heading north or south.
[00:46:13] Once we turned in this case north, we'd make our way up the coast.
[00:46:16] Then turn west back into shore.
[00:46:19] Then we hope to be on station off the southern bank of the Kuivette river.
[00:46:25] Soon as possible after dark.
[00:46:28] We'd then leave the junks and paddle in close to shore and rubber boats.
[00:46:33] And then swim the last swim ashore from the rubber boats.
[00:46:37] We'd insert, do our job and get out before first light.
[00:46:41] We didn't have to be back at two Enon before first light.
[00:46:44] But we sure as heck wanted to be back across the beach and away from the coast before sun up.
[00:46:49] I was told I'd have offshore Navy support in the way of two destroyers.
[00:46:54] So if we're running a little late and getting out of there, I'd have some friendly on call fire support.
[00:46:59] So that's a real standard mission that, you know, when I first got the team one, we did that not not the exact same thing and not real.
[00:47:07] But we trained it all the time.
[00:47:08] You're going to get on mark five's and you're going to have your ZODAX on there that you're going to get a little closer to the beach.
[00:47:13] And when you get close to the beach, you drop off the ZODAX.
[00:47:16] Then you get a little bit closer to the beach.
[00:47:18] And then the last thing you do is get out the boats, swim in.
[00:47:20] You go to your operation.
[00:47:21] So kind of standard stuff.
[00:47:23] And you know, he says it's not something you hadn't done before.
[00:47:26] All right.
[00:47:27] Here's what you were talking about when you're talking about the LDNNs.
[00:47:34] Going back to the book.
[00:47:36] The LDNs came in all varieties of experience and capability and courage.
[00:47:40] On this operation, we had three very good ones.
[00:47:43] Lieutenant Kwon was a first rate LDNN officer and dang and Kwon.
[00:47:48] This other Kwon is an elicited LLNN.
[00:47:51] No relation.
[00:47:52] We're two guys.
[00:47:53] I'd work with on my first tour and was with them again in two and on.
[00:47:57] Dang and Kwon were good to go.
[00:48:00] But the problem was Kwon the officer.
[00:48:03] Well, Kwon was hurt.
[00:48:05] And that's the reason you have to.
[00:48:07] Yeah, the problem was that Lieutenant Kwon, he liked to get after a little bit sometimes.
[00:48:13] Well, it's like all of us.
[00:48:15] Maybe he had too much to drink the night before.
[00:48:19] And so he would he get now some kind of accident or whatever.
[00:48:23] Yeah, he was riding it in a way or ran into the pier.
[00:48:27] He had this head and he busted both his eyes and he couldn't see his.
[00:48:32] They're both completely shut.
[00:48:34] Well, this is how we got the other new officer, which I've never worked with.
[00:48:38] But but I'd work many tours.
[00:48:41] I mean, not many tours, but many operations with the other two guys.
[00:48:45] And I'd work with Kwon and he was really good.
[00:48:48] But of course he was unable to make the.
[00:48:50] So they, we brought in another young officer, which I'd never operated with.
[00:48:55] And this other just so everyone knows as we're going through this.
[00:48:58] The other officer that you now brought on that you had to work with before.
[00:49:01] His name was Lieutenant Fwan.
[00:49:03] Yeah.
[00:49:04] Is that in my saying that right?
[00:49:05] No, but I'm not going to be a crew man.
[00:49:07] I got the Vietnamese speaker in here, typing me up.
[00:49:13] So you had the the Navy was out to see the two things that Navy was supposed to help you with was helping you guys do navigation.
[00:49:21] Because in this time, no GPS, it's so easy now.
[00:49:24] I'm embarrassed by how you see this.
[00:49:26] And obviously fire support if you need it.
[00:49:30] Yeah. Basically what they're supposed to do is vector is sand and that's where each ship takes a radar plunge and they shoot it in.
[00:49:38] And they see where we are in the junks, which are 39 foot concrete junks is what the.
[00:49:47] And then they would see where we were.
[00:49:49] Then they'd shoot us at Asmoth.
[00:49:51] And then we would take our compass and we'd go in there.
[00:49:54] One of the ship shooting is they were trying to overtake Kwon tree again.
[00:49:58] And he left and went down south to help you have gone far support.
[00:50:03] To help the Vietnamese army and Marine Corps to hold off the NVA.
[00:50:10] And when that one guy shot the Asmoth and he was about 3 degrees off, but when you're 15 miles off the beach.
[00:50:18] 3 degrees is a lot.
[00:50:20] And everybody said the CEO said that's the river. Actually it was the Ben Haar River, which was actually in North Vietnam.
[00:50:30] So when we went and inserted, we were way north of the Kwon via.
[00:50:35] Now you had talked about Bill Woodruff Woody, you're referring to him as an important point here.
[00:50:42] And this is something we always tried to hold true to.
[00:50:45] You won't always put like a seal with your assets if you can manage it.
[00:50:50] So you got a seal out there on the boats that are going to be recovering you because it's a guy that you know it's a guy that you trust.
[00:50:56] And you know, these not going to leave you hanging there.
[00:50:58] Yeah, you're saying that's right.
[00:51:00] And you know, that's a good lesson learned for anybody doing operations right now.
[00:51:04] I don't care what unit you're with. If you're in the Marine Corps and you're using the army asset,
[00:51:07] trying to put a liaison officer with the army.
[00:51:09] If you're in the army and you're using the Marine Corps asset, try and put a liaison officer.
[00:51:12] Same thing with special operations because those are the guys that speak your language.
[00:51:16] They're going to be able to predict what you're going to do if things are going sideways.
[00:51:20] It's just it's just a smart move to do.
[00:51:23] And then you know, you talked about how these things started going wrong.
[00:51:27] And you're off the coast.
[00:51:29] And instead of being where you thought you were, you're at the Ben Heir River, which is basically south of the Ben Heir.
[00:51:37] So we, and Tommy and I discussed it and he said, we'll go ahead and go in.
[00:51:43] We'll do what we call a horseshoe out. We'll go in so many clicks and go north and then go back to the east back to the ocean and try to if we can pick up.
[00:51:53] You know, if we could do it, we were doing a body snatch too.
[00:51:57] Of course, of course, by a body snatch you get your best intelligence that way.
[00:52:02] And then we used to do direct action missions to go capture bad guys, but we didn't call them body snatches.
[00:52:10] And I'm kind of wishing we did. It sounds a lot better than to a body snatch.
[00:52:16] Maybe I should have named those body snatch and operations.
[00:52:20] I would have felt a lot better about it.
[00:52:22] So in tactically, you're going in.
[00:52:26] It's pretty normal.
[00:52:28] You swim in. It's pretty normal. You get on the beach.
[00:52:32] And here we go back to the book. This is Utah. And I was carrying the Starlight scope, a bulky first generation night vision device that allowed you to see relatively well at night.
[00:52:42] There's a size of a loaf of bread and weighed eight pounds.
[00:52:46] Tommy told me to scout the beach area to see if I could find any of the features we were looking for,
[00:52:50] expecting to find like the mouth of the river.
[00:52:52] I went north about 200 yards from our position in the same distance to the south.
[00:52:56] And with the Starlight scope, I could see a good ways up and down the beach.
[00:53:00] No river mouth and nothing looked familiar.
[00:53:02] Tommy moved inland just to short distance to look the area over with his binoculars.
[00:53:06] Neither of us saw anything that indicated we were supposed to be.
[00:53:10] So, and then like you said, you know you're in the wrong space,
[00:53:14] but you might as well do in reconnaissance while you're there.
[00:53:16] And that's kind of the decision that's made.
[00:53:20] And I was thinking about this too.
[00:53:22] So I was thinking you guys only have five guys.
[00:53:26] And the idea behind that must have been, hey, let's travel light and we can maneuver really quick.
[00:53:30] And then I got to the list of what you were carrying.
[00:53:34] Here's what Mike was carrying. Mike talking, I was the muel.
[00:53:36] On a recon patrol, I carried a car 15, car being, and just over 800 rounds of five five six ammunition,
[00:53:44] along with an assortment of the dozen fragmentation CS and smoke grenades.
[00:53:50] I also had three law rockets and a starlight scope, all this carried a medical kit,
[00:53:54] and inflatable UDT over the head life vest.
[00:53:58] I also had our silenced weapon of 22 caliber automatic pistol with a suppressor attached to the barrel.
[00:54:04] We called it a hush puppy.
[00:54:06] So, not exactly light for reconnaissance and moving.
[00:54:10] I was thinking you guys would try and stay all slick, but that's no joke what you were carrying.
[00:54:16] Now, as your patrol and you start seeing fires, and eventually you see movement, you see bunkers,
[00:54:24] and Tommy says, I think it's about time we get the heck out of here.
[00:54:28] You say Roger that sir.
[00:54:30] It's about 0-300.
[00:54:32] You got about three hours of darkness left, and you get into a stream.
[00:54:36] Right.
[00:54:37] And start moving towards the beach.
[00:54:40] Well, for three different reasons, one of the Kitchell low cell, solar wet.
[00:54:44] We knew that we were within a battalion of NVA at that period of time.
[00:54:48] Then we saw tanks and gun-in-placements.
[00:54:52] So, we knew that we were way north of the world was supposed to be.
[00:54:56] So, by getting in the stream, the tide ranges 18 feet over there.
[00:55:02] So, the current was running out, so we knew it was going out to the ocean.
[00:55:06] So, we got in there.
[00:55:08] By keeping our low solar wet in there, we can move a lot faster in the water,
[00:55:12] and hopefully we wouldn't bump into any of the enemy out there,
[00:55:18] which we were starting to move around at that time in the morning.
[00:55:24] Now you start hearing something.
[00:55:30] Correct.
[00:55:32] And, you know, you halt patrol, and you see what you see is NVA soldiers, a bunch of them.
[00:55:40] It's like an encampment of NVA soldiers.
[00:55:44] And they correct me if I'm wrong, but from their position,
[00:55:48] where you had moved to in the stream, now you're looking at them,
[00:55:52] and as you move to the water, you're going to be exposed.
[00:55:56] Is that the situation?
[00:55:58] Well, actually, there were in a base camp type deal, and it was a quick reaction force.
[00:56:02] We knew the main forces behind us.
[00:56:04] And, of course, that exposed us, kind of cut off our southern route.
[00:56:12] So, to the north of us, which we knew were going farther north,
[00:56:16] there was that big lagoon as a map show.
[00:56:20] And so we would have to our eastern flank,
[00:56:24] we had the ocean to the western flank.
[00:56:26] We had the lagoon, and then to the south, we had the bad guys that we knew of.
[00:56:32] And to the north, we had some sand dunes, and we could see,
[00:56:38] after you pass this one big bunker, you can see nothing but flat beach.
[00:56:44] So, we figured out the arbus objective to move up there.
[00:56:48] And Tommy got on top of this, we thought it was a big sand gym,
[00:56:51] but actually, it was a bunker built, and actually, it tunnels down inside of it.
[00:56:56] And that's the one that you did a recon, and you found that bunker?
[00:56:59] Yeah, I found the bunker.
[00:57:00] And then you brought Tommy there?
[00:57:01] Tommy went up there with the radio, and which was dang,
[00:57:04] and that gave us, you know, a course back then,
[00:57:06] his radios for PRC 7, 7, and Slon of sight, which you,
[00:57:10] yeah.
[00:57:12] Yeah.
[00:57:13] And he's trying to make comms back to Woody,
[00:57:17] and or back to the ship.
[00:57:19] Back then, the ship was the new port, and he's in the USS Morgan,
[00:57:23] this one, this one, this ship was where then we had,
[00:57:26] we finally got Woody, but Woody was down off the mouth of the clock yet.
[00:57:30] And he thought, you know, after you got through bearings,
[00:57:33] so they were always off from Royale.
[00:57:36] So, at this point, you guys are in that bunker,
[00:57:40] and Kwon comes from him back, and he says,
[00:57:43] die way, nor is with the Starlight scope,
[00:57:46] I see two men coming down the beach.
[00:57:48] They're quite away off, but they're heading our way.
[00:57:51] So, then you seem like you come up with a plan right there,
[00:57:56] what you're going to do.
[00:57:57] Yeah.
[00:57:58] I think, and, well, I'll let you brief what your plan was,
[00:58:01] but you see two bad guys coming down the beach,
[00:58:03] yeah.
[00:58:04] And your idea is cool, it's time to do our body snatch.
[00:58:07] That's correct.
[00:58:08] And I feared, the officer, which name is mentioned,
[00:58:15] he was a good guy, he's like five, nine,
[00:58:19] and he was in a strong, I mean, athletic guy.
[00:58:22] Right.
[00:58:23] So, this is the other Vietnamese officer,
[00:58:26] he's a big guy.
[00:58:28] Yeah.
[00:58:29] So, I put him down on the beach because the high water line,
[00:58:33] and these guys were walking up and down the high water line.
[00:58:36] And the other guy was about 150 yards ahead of the guy,
[00:58:42] cause the other guy was walking up in the sand dunes,
[00:58:45] and I figured, we got to make sure we not came out.
[00:58:48] But the other guy's just walking by, because he's just
[00:58:50] sitting down the coastline, looking around.
[00:58:56] And so, I said, I sent Kwon down with the husk puppy,
[00:59:01] and not Kwon, but the officer.
[00:59:04] And I sent him down, and I said, I'm not,
[00:59:07] this guy's got walked by us, but when the other guy,
[00:59:10] I'll take him out, and then I had Kwon there with me in Kwon.
[00:59:15] After I knocked him out cold, and when Kwon got him,
[00:59:18] he went up and secured him.
[00:59:21] So, the two guys are walking down the beach,
[00:59:24] and a pretty good distance apart.
[00:59:26] You say, okay, I'm going to be in Kwon,
[00:59:28] we'll go get this guy, we'll capture him.
[00:59:31] And then Lieutenant, or the Vietnamese Lieutenant,
[00:59:34] you go and get this other guy.
[00:59:35] Correct.
[00:59:36] And you said, kill him, right?
[00:59:37] No, I said, if you could take him, take him down.
[00:59:40] But he's right on the shoreline, so the waves are breaking,
[00:59:44] this making a lot of turbulence and noise, and the other guys up in the sand,
[00:59:49] he said, the high water line, walking around, looking like that.
[00:59:52] So, I knew he would be the last one there,
[00:59:54] but we had to make sure we took him out for sure.
[00:59:57] Right.
[00:59:58] And then I told the officer, he could go up and take this guy out,
[01:00:02] or eliminate him, or just make sure he didn't go back to the village,
[01:00:07] cause the village is on down the beach.
[01:00:11] And he stood up, you know, Lyday Malin,
[01:00:15] and Vietnamese, I mean, stop, come here.
[01:00:17] He's got an AK47, the bad guy does.
[01:00:21] He's got a 22 long hush puppy,
[01:00:25] which is about from here across this room.
[01:00:28] And, you know, he's out there like that,
[01:00:31] and the guy opened fire on him.
[01:00:33] He's running back towards Tommy and the, and I'm running past him,
[01:00:36] because I know he's on the way to the village.
[01:00:38] And as I say in the book, you know,
[01:00:41] they have radios like everybody did.
[01:00:44] So, what sometimes they would,
[01:00:46] whether he would send information to shoot
[01:00:50] so many rounds in the sky and somebody danced her back,
[01:00:53] but they changed all the time.
[01:00:55] But at that period of time, he only shot off two rounds.
[01:00:58] So, hopefully that didn't mean something better, good.
[01:01:01] And we got to the opening of the,
[01:01:06] he went across the creek, the creek bed,
[01:01:10] and he was heading straight to the entrance to the village.
[01:01:14] And I dropped down the one knee,
[01:01:16] hit two shots, hit him in the back.
[01:01:18] He fell down and next thing, all hell.
[01:01:20] It was 50 to 75 bad guys for chasing us down.
[01:01:24] And I was heading back to Tommy.
[01:01:27] And we got back, and I moved out on the point
[01:01:30] as the book explains on what it is.
[01:01:32] So, when you, when you grab,
[01:01:34] or now you're heading back to Tommy,
[01:01:37] and that's in that big sort of bunker doomed.
[01:01:40] Yeah, yeah.
[01:01:41] And so now all you are collocating the big don't bunker.
[01:01:44] No, actually, I'm out on the very point.
[01:01:46] Okay.
[01:01:47] And Tommy was up on top of the bunker,
[01:01:49] and they had taken the guy we did capture up there,
[01:01:53] and he was up there.
[01:01:55] So, I moved the officer to Ryrs' security
[01:01:58] and told him if he sees anything, let Tommy go.
[01:02:01] And I put Klan over on my eastern flank,
[01:02:05] which is the side of the ocean.
[01:02:07] So, I was about 50 feet ahead of him,
[01:02:09] 50 yards ahead of him.
[01:02:10] So, I could cover, I could see everybody coming in.
[01:02:13] So, I was kind of like the point.
[01:02:15] But I kept Klan over to on the ocean side,
[01:02:18] if they tried to flank me.
[01:02:20] He would not am off.
[01:02:22] Then I could see them.
[01:02:23] Look at him over here.
[01:02:25] I could see them.
[01:02:26] And so, I could see everything out in front of me.
[01:02:29] And now the enemy starts coming forward.
[01:02:32] And you start engaging them, taking them down.
[01:02:36] Yeah, and engaging them.
[01:02:37] And what I do, I'd come up over here.
[01:02:39] I'd roll over and come up somewhere else.
[01:02:41] I'd throw a grenade over here.
[01:02:43] I'd move back to another grenade.
[01:02:45] I'd move forward.
[01:02:47] Where the grenade hit, because I had by that time.
[01:02:50] And that gave him a frost priestance
[01:02:53] as how many people we had.
[01:02:55] They didn't know we had 12 or 15 or...
[01:02:58] Well, they didn't.
[01:02:59] Tommy and Nim were shooting from up there.
[01:03:01] But Tommy was on the radio trying to get communications.
[01:03:04] And what Tommy was trying to get communications from and just to kind of lay this out a little bit.
[01:03:09] The ships had been told, hey, we might need fire support.
[01:03:12] That's correct.
[01:03:13] Well, whenever you set up fire support for yourself,
[01:03:17] you always set up what we call pre-designated firing position.
[01:03:21] So, hey, you know, you name them whatever you're going to name them.
[01:03:24] ABCD1234.
[01:03:25] Yeah.
[01:03:26] It's real easy to jump on the radio and say, hey, fire at position.
[01:03:29] Bravo now.
[01:03:30] And the, you know, whatever fire support can start hitting that.
[01:03:34] That's great.
[01:03:35] If you were, you're supposed to be.
[01:03:37] And that's the issue.
[01:03:38] So, Tommy starts doing this best and saying, hey, fire rounds at this predesignated spot.
[01:03:49] They fire rounds at that predesignated spot.
[01:03:51] Yes, it could have been seen in it.
[01:03:53] So, they started moving north at that preded time.
[01:03:55] They were shooting smoke in the air.
[01:03:57] And the fire fight went for almost three hours.
[01:04:01] Actually, two hours and 55 minutes.
[01:04:03] And we had eliminated a lot of these guys.
[01:04:06] And they started falling back.
[01:04:08] And so, it's five of you that are making like 30, 40, 50 guys fall back.
[01:04:13] Well, just four of us, because got it.
[01:04:16] The other guy never shot a round of it with sweat.
[01:04:20] And that's just, you're taking good fire discipline.
[01:04:23] Right.
[01:04:25] One or two rounds of time, making good hits, making sure what I do, I shoot in the sand about an inch.
[01:04:30] And I'd see their heads come up.
[01:04:32] Then I'd shoot about an inch below the sand.
[01:04:35] And I get a headshot every time.
[01:04:37] So, I could tell that.
[01:04:38] And then you roll over.
[01:04:39] You know, then with the grenades, you know, and they were getting as you mentioned what
[01:04:44] our grenade, of course, we have a four second delay in hours.
[01:04:47] And there, there grenades, we had pulled those things.
[01:04:52] And they'd go, we'll go and you were from 14 seconds to 28 seconds.
[01:04:57] They don't have good quality controlling their grenade factories like we do.
[01:05:03] Let's see.
[01:05:05] Yeah, you're talking about that.
[01:05:07] You're sending guys off.
[01:05:08] Now, you're continue to shoot.
[01:05:11] You're continuing to hold your position.
[01:05:14] You're about halfway through your ammo at this point.
[01:05:17] And then speaking of these grenades, you're in one of these positions.
[01:05:21] And boom, in comes one of those grenades to your spot.
[01:05:25] What should you do about that?
[01:05:27] Well, I yelled grenade.
[01:05:29] And I grabbed it and threw it back.
[01:05:31] I was going 1,000, 2,000, 3,000.
[01:05:34] But, I had 8,000, the damn grenade came back over.
[01:05:37] And I went 12,000, 13,000, 13,000.
[01:05:39] Of course, we were using 1,000.
[01:05:41] And I guess you're a good second.
[01:05:43] I threw it back.
[01:05:46] And the grenade went back and forth five times.
[01:05:49] And I was at 21,000, 22,000.
[01:05:52] I said this thing's got to go off.
[01:05:54] And it went off.
[01:05:55] And I was hit six times in my back.
[01:05:57] It was wrapped up.
[01:05:58] And I just yelled out.
[01:05:59] I didn't say nothing else.
[01:06:01] And when I yelled out, I just stayed there.
[01:06:03] And I looked up.
[01:06:04] And there was four guys coming across.
[01:06:06] And I eliminated all four of those guys.
[01:06:08] And that's when we found out they started falling back.
[01:06:11] And Tommy said they're falling back.
[01:06:12] And I said, this is it.
[01:06:13] Are you OK?
[01:06:14] I said, you know, I'm wounded.
[01:06:17] OK, I'm still very, very mobile.
[01:06:20] And of course, the adrenaline's pumping.
[01:06:22] Like God knows what.
[01:06:24] And you don't worry about yourself.
[01:06:29] You just need, you need to get out of there.
[01:06:32] I thought we needed it.
[01:06:34] Now, at this point, it seems like they're falling back a little bit.
[01:06:39] And it looks like from the way it's described.
[01:06:43] There's basically another doon.
[01:06:45] And that's a little further back from where you are.
[01:06:47] Approximately 500 yards.
[01:06:49] And that's to the north.
[01:06:50] That's the north.
[01:06:51] Right.
[01:06:52] Right.
[01:06:53] I mean, everything else is flat.
[01:06:54] We said for that one, too.
[01:06:55] And so what you, what you guys hatch the plan real quick, all right.
[01:06:58] Let's get to that thing.
[01:06:59] It's further away.
[01:07:00] It creates some distance.
[01:07:01] And then from there, we can eventually get in the water and get out of here.
[01:07:04] And you know, I talk about cover and move all the time.
[01:07:07] And that's like the fundamental principle of how we fight.
[01:07:11] And in a normal situation, you would just get little
[01:07:14] terrain features and you'd move back a little piece at a time because, uh,
[01:07:18] Because that's how you support each other.
[01:07:20] And this one, there was no where to hide in between those two.
[01:07:24] No.
[01:07:25] So you guys made the call of Tommy and who's going to stay up there.
[01:07:29] Who's Tommy and Dan's a rail,
[01:07:31] and the stay up there and Tommy said, you fall back.
[01:07:33] Because that period of time, I was the only one in head in the end.
[01:07:36] I've been wounded.
[01:07:37] But what we did, I looked across that apartment,
[01:07:40] and I said, I could understand why because I counted almost 100 guys.
[01:07:44] And Tommy said, there's a lot more in that.
[01:07:46] And it was a NVA batay.
[01:07:48] And they were trying to encircle us.
[01:07:51] And by the time I got back,
[01:07:54] as the book says,
[01:07:58] Dan comes back by himself.
[01:07:59] Because Tommy had been shot in the head at that period of time.
[01:08:02] So, so you guys, they put down cover,
[01:08:05] they put down cover fire for you.
[01:08:07] And then you fall back, you're doing what you're supposed to do.
[01:08:11] And you got the Vietnamese lieutenant,
[01:08:13] and you got Kwon with you.
[01:08:15] You get back to that position.
[01:08:17] And that means Lieutenant Norris is still up in the big bunker.
[01:08:25] Get ready.
[01:08:26] He's waiting for your fire support.
[01:08:28] And while that's happening,
[01:08:30] I'm going to go to the book right here.
[01:08:33] I was asking for Naval Gunfire.
[01:08:36] Right on to our position.
[01:08:39] And he says, those rounds could hit dang.
[01:08:41] And me, just as well as the bad guys,
[01:08:43] but I had no choice.
[01:08:44] The guy on the radio came back and said,
[01:08:47] understand fire for effect.
[01:08:49] And I said, absolutely put it on us.
[01:08:51] And he said, are you sure?
[01:08:53] And I said, just get it in here.
[01:08:56] And so they had actually,
[01:08:59] as they were calling in this Naval Gunfire,
[01:09:02] Tommy was like, seeing guys coming
[01:09:04] and like through the grace of God,
[01:09:06] a one big round hit there.
[01:09:08] They hit them.
[01:09:09] And got a lot of bad guys.
[01:09:12] And then again, going back to the book,
[01:09:16] I went back to getting the law ready to fire.
[01:09:18] That's a law rocket.
[01:09:20] I could hear the ship shooting.
[01:09:22] But that's the last thing I remember.
[01:09:24] And then the narrator comes in and says,
[01:09:26] at that point in the fight, Tom Norris took an AK-47
[01:09:30] round to the left side of his forehead.
[01:09:32] The bullet entered his skull at the orbital socket
[01:09:35] of his left eye, tore a section of his skull,
[01:09:39] exposing his brain and cut a shallow furl along the brain itself.
[01:09:43] Dang saw his officer go down
[01:09:46] and the extent of his head wound.
[01:09:48] His lieutenant had been shot dead.
[01:09:51] Knowing there was nothing he could do.
[01:09:53] He made for the others who had just taken a position
[01:09:56] on the next dune to the north.
[01:09:59] As he ran, he took around through the radio.
[01:10:01] He still carried on his back knocking him down.
[01:10:04] The round destroyed the radio and saved his life,
[01:10:07] but fragments carried through into his back.
[01:10:09] Dang picked himself up and kept running.
[01:10:12] It took him close to ten minutes to reach Mike.
[01:10:15] Where's Tommy?
[01:10:17] Mike asked Dang when he reached him.
[01:10:19] Where is Daiway?
[01:10:21] Daiway is dead.
[01:10:23] Dang replied.
[01:10:24] And this is it.
[01:10:28] So you know, you're trusted via an amuse fellow seal.
[01:10:35] Says, hey, look, the lieutenant.
[01:10:37] That's Daiway.
[01:10:38] He's dead.
[01:10:41] And this is what you do.
[01:10:43] I'm going to the book here.
[01:10:44] I told Kwon and the others to wait here
[01:10:46] that I was going back for Tommy.
[01:10:49] They tried to stop me saying it was no use.
[01:10:52] He was dead.
[01:10:54] I believe them.
[01:10:56] I too thought he was dead, but I wasn't going to leave him behind.
[01:11:00] We never leave anybody behind.
[01:11:02] So no way was I going to be the first to do that.
[01:11:06] Had I been wounded or dead, he'd have come back for me.
[01:11:10] That's who we are.
[01:11:12] Dang said he was dead and I had no reason not to believe him.
[01:11:15] It didn't matter.
[01:11:17] And what if by chance he was still alive.
[01:11:22] I could not have lived with myself.
[01:11:24] If I had left him behind not knowing, or what the NVA might do to him
[01:11:28] if he were still alive.
[01:11:31] That whole area south of the bunker was littered with bodies
[01:11:34] and they would be looking for revenge.
[01:11:38] I had close to a quarter of a mile to cover
[01:11:41] and the last part was uphill, but I ran all the way.
[01:11:45] The initial salvo from the Morton that was the ship out at sea
[01:11:49] although I didn't know it at the time that it was the Morton shooting
[01:11:52] had made the bad guys think twice about advancing on the dune
[01:11:56] with the bunker.
[01:11:57] When I got close, I saw the moving carefully towards the bunker
[01:12:01] from where I could see they were flanking the bunker
[01:12:04] and moving in from the east or the beachside as well as from the south.
[01:12:09] I saw Tommy lying on the west side of the bunker.
[01:12:12] Two guys were climbing over the top as they moved in from the east.
[01:12:16] They moved cautiously and got within a few feet of him.
[01:12:19] I shot them both and moved to where Tommy was.
[01:12:22] He had an unbelievable head wound.
[01:12:25] The whole side of his forehead was gone.
[01:12:27] His brain was visible.
[01:12:29] You could actually see it.
[01:12:31] The front lobe of his brain was kind of pushing out through his skull.
[01:12:35] I could see why dang said he was dead.
[01:12:38] I sure thought he was.
[01:12:40] I picked him up, put him over my shoulder, and started running.
[01:12:45] I also grabbed his AK-47 as I knew I was getting low on ammo.
[01:12:50] I hadn't taken more than ten steps from the bunker when there was this explosion behind me
[01:12:55] from Naval Gunfire round.
[01:12:57] The concussion picked us both up in the air, lifting Tommy off my shoulder
[01:13:01] and tossed us forward, ten or fifteen feet.
[01:13:05] I literally saw him move my shoulder, leave my shoulder, and fly through the air.
[01:13:10] When I landed, I sat there for a moment stunned,
[01:13:13] trying to orient myself and catch my breath.
[01:13:16] Once I started myself out, I crawled over to where Tommy was lying in the sand.
[01:13:22] Once I got to Tommy again and started to pick him up,
[01:13:26] he spoke to me for the first time.
[01:13:28] He said, Mike, buddy.
[01:13:31] And that was when I knew he was alive.
[01:13:33] I said, can you run?
[01:13:35] And he says, I can run, but I can't see.
[01:13:38] But he really couldn't run.
[01:13:41] Then he blanked out again.
[01:13:43] I put him in a fireman's carry and took off for the dune to the north where I left the others.
[01:13:48] I heard him talking now and then, and I guess he was fading in and out.
[01:13:53] But I knew he was alive.
[01:13:56] And I put all my energy and focused to covering the ground between where we were and the other dune.
[01:14:04] We were like I said, you know, and I've talked about the camaraderie in the respect we have for each other.
[01:14:22] And even though Tommy's a much smaller than I am, he would have done the same thing for me.
[01:14:28] I know that so it's like you say you,
[01:14:35] you know, if you die,
[01:14:37] which we're all, we understand what our job is,
[01:14:41] that being Navy sales, but I can never live with myself,
[01:14:46] no one that fused that.
[01:14:47] I thought he was dead, but the grace of God
[01:14:51] we still with us. So as I was running back with him,
[01:15:02] I got shot to my left calf,
[01:15:04] and to my left calf, and I fell to the ground,
[01:15:10] and we got back in there, it's quannandone,
[01:15:12] given us cover fire.
[01:15:14] Were you, like when I've done stuff that was maybe
[01:15:19] not the safest things in the world,
[01:15:22] I never was really thinking like,
[01:15:25] oh, this is dangerous.
[01:15:27] Were you thinking, oh, this is really dangerous?
[01:15:31] Oh, he's over there, and I gotta go get him,
[01:15:34] because that's what we do.
[01:15:35] Yeah, that's what we do.
[01:15:36] So that's what it is.
[01:15:37] You don't, you know, fears a good thing,
[01:15:40] but you gotta focus.
[01:15:41] I mean, if, you know, I could have said dinner today,
[01:15:44] we were all go die, I'm just a lie here and do it.
[01:15:47] But I said, I'm taking as many of those SOBs down as I can.
[01:15:51] And, you know, and the thing is, is that,
[01:15:58] it's like we go back to what we are,
[01:16:01] and the camaraderie, and going through training,
[01:16:03] and why we do things, and you're thanks like that.
[01:16:06] I think that the broader was my father.
[01:16:08] And as I go back to, I look about it,
[01:16:10] because my dad never would've left me behind,
[01:16:12] or anybody else behind, you know,
[01:16:14] that's what's instilled in us as we go through training.
[01:16:17] And as was instilled us, you know,
[01:16:19] Tom Boyhand was saying last night,
[01:16:22] you said, you know, I don't think you're in New York,
[01:16:24] fear was.
[01:16:25] Well, I knew what it was, but I mean, being afraid,
[01:16:28] you know, if you were about being afraid of everything,
[01:16:32] you should never be in the field,
[01:16:33] because you're not focused on what you're trying to do.
[01:16:36] So that's the whole thing is, you know,
[01:16:38] so we're out there to do a job,
[01:16:40] so let's get the damn job done.
[01:16:42] Yeah, it's interesting to me,
[01:16:43] that I would, I think guys would feel more afraid
[01:16:47] when we were getting ready to go in the field,
[01:16:51] when even me, you know, when you have time to think,
[01:16:54] like, oh, we're going down the street,
[01:16:55] which is had, you know, 17 ID's on in the last four days.
[01:16:59] And there's guaranteed to be another one on there tonight,
[01:17:03] with a question, is it gonna hit you
[01:17:04] or is it gonna hit someone else?
[01:17:06] And that's, I would see the look on guys faces
[01:17:09] while we were getting ready to go out,
[01:17:12] and you could see a little bit of that.
[01:17:14] But once you're in the field,
[01:17:15] everyone's doing what they do.
[01:17:17] They're just doing their job.
[01:17:18] And it's like flickin' the switch, you know,
[01:17:20] why switch, you get your mind,
[01:17:23] and know what your supposed to be doin'.
[01:17:24] So, if a guy's, does have his mind in the game,
[01:17:28] he's gonna stay at home,
[01:17:29] he ain't goin' out in the field with my thorn
[01:17:31] or problems with that.
[01:17:33] Now, this is one of my favorite parts of the book,
[01:17:38] that is, well, I'll read it.
[01:17:41] When I got, this is you talkin',
[01:17:42] when I got back to the dune,
[01:17:44] dang and quan were waiting for me, providing cover fire.
[01:17:49] Lieutenant Plon was nowhere in sight,
[01:17:51] he'd already made it for the water to escape.
[01:17:54] But God bless dang and quan,
[01:17:56] they waited for me and were still in the fight,
[01:17:59] even though dang was wounded.
[01:18:01] They said, Mike, what do we do now?
[01:18:05] And I said, we swim.
[01:18:08] We swim, which is the classic seal scenario
[01:18:14] in that the water is our salvation.
[01:18:17] You know, it's like, we have that special experience
[01:18:21] in the water and people don't come from underwater
[01:18:25] and it's our home.
[01:18:27] And that was just the classic answer to these guys
[01:18:29] who said, what do we do now?
[01:18:31] Remember, we're combat swimmers,
[01:18:32] like I'm bat runners, but the running does help.
[01:18:35] Okay. So, now talk about when you're getting,
[01:18:42] now you're moving to the water.
[01:18:44] You're carrying a Tommy, what goes on then?
[01:18:46] Well, I didn't inflate Tommy's life jacket
[01:18:51] as some of the stories said.
[01:18:53] I, I was using Tommy like a surfboard
[01:18:56] and every time a wave would break,
[01:18:57] I'd push him under the water and bring him up the other side
[01:19:00] because the worst thing you could do is have a wave
[01:19:03] and we had six sets of waves coming in
[01:19:05] and that's how quan ended up getting injured.
[01:19:08] You guys shot.
[01:19:09] And so I, after I got Tommy out, that's when I put,
[01:19:14] and I could never find Tommy's life jacket.
[01:19:16] And he had it and I pocketed down on his cap
[01:19:19] and I said, why?
[01:19:20] So I wonder if I get a bullet hole in it.
[01:19:22] I said, it's good because we put a piece of tape
[01:19:26] and if you have a, you know, second chest wound,
[01:19:29] I can take, so I took my life jacket off me
[01:19:32] and put it on his head and I took the, you know,
[01:19:35] the old UDT, I took the harness.
[01:19:37] But I just put a little bit of air
[01:19:38] and I started breast-strokeing out to see.
[01:19:42] And that's when I saw quan was not going anywhere.
[01:19:45] And I could see dang out in front of me.
[01:19:48] And so I swam over in grab quan and I put quan in front of me.
[01:19:53] A quan had been shot too.
[01:19:54] It had been shot pretty bad.
[01:19:55] Yeah, and the back femur and also his butt
[01:19:58] actually was completely kind of gone.
[01:20:00] He's like, good. So I, so you're wounded.
[01:20:03] You got shrapnel in your back.
[01:20:05] You got shot in the leg.
[01:20:06] Like you got Lieutenant Norris who's basically unconscious,
[01:20:10] dying.
[01:20:11] Yeah.
[01:20:12] And now you got quan who he can't move himself.
[01:20:15] He's immobile as well.
[01:20:16] Great.
[01:20:17] And dang is leading point as you guys are patting out
[01:20:20] and you're carrying both these other guys through the water.
[01:20:22] So what I did, I took quan and put his arm,
[01:20:26] I put my arms underneath quans, arms,
[01:20:28] and he held Tommy like this and I started breaststroke.
[01:20:32] And two, we got out past the range of their weapons.
[01:20:36] And at that period of time, I inflated quans,
[01:20:39] life check with a little bit, then I actually
[01:20:41] tied his life jacket to my waist.
[01:20:43] And I towed quan and swam with Tommy on my back.
[01:20:50] Here's, again, a typical, I think this exemplifies
[01:20:54] that seal attitude right here.
[01:20:57] This is, you talking every time Tommy woke up,
[01:21:01] it was Mike.
[01:21:02] You got everyone.
[01:21:03] I could only count four of us,
[01:21:04] where's the other guy?
[01:21:06] I'd say I got them, I got everyone.
[01:21:08] And then he drift off again.
[01:21:10] Then when he woke up again, it was Mike.
[01:21:12] You got everyone.
[01:21:13] Do you have all of them?
[01:21:15] And I'd say damn it, Tommy, I got them all.
[01:21:17] Okay, they're accounted for.
[01:21:19] But I just love the fact that, you know,
[01:21:22] you got a guy that's clearly close to death.
[01:21:25] And when he does become conscious, his number one concern
[01:21:30] is does he have his guys with him?
[01:21:31] His troops, that's it.
[01:21:33] And that's the way great leadership is.
[01:21:35] Sometimes people surpass that because, you know,
[01:21:39] but it goes back to the thing that you and I were talking
[01:21:42] about earlier, you take care of your people,
[01:21:44] your people will take care of you.
[01:21:47] Now, you get out, you know, past like you said,
[01:21:51] past the small arms fire.
[01:21:53] And again, dang and quann, keep asking, Mike,
[01:21:58] what do we do?
[01:21:58] What do we do?
[01:21:59] And each time you said, we swim, we just keep swimming.
[01:22:04] We'll swim south all the way to two we non if we have to.
[01:22:11] That's correct.
[01:22:12] And that's what you did.
[01:22:13] You start you kept swimming and kept swimming
[01:22:16] and kept swimming and you're out there for three hours,
[01:22:20] swimming.
[01:22:21] And just to put that into some perspective
[01:22:23] for people that have never swim in the open ocean before,
[01:22:27] the longest swim that you do in seal training
[01:22:30] is 5.5 nautical miles, which is 6.2 statute,
[01:22:37] regular land miles.
[01:22:38] And that takes depending on the current,
[01:22:40] depending on how good of your swim or you are.
[01:22:42] That's the longest swim that they actually make you do.
[01:22:45] And that takes like three, four, sometimes five hours.
[01:22:48] That's the longest swim that they make you do.
[01:22:51] And by the way, they give you a little water break in between.
[01:22:54] So here you are swimming this
[01:22:59] and you're wounded, shot in the leg.
[01:23:01] Like I said, you're dragging these other guys.
[01:23:02] Now luckily Bill Woodruff and we talked about this earlier,
[01:23:07] you had.
[01:23:08] He saved our life.
[01:23:09] I mean, Billy wouldn't give up almost.
[01:23:10] He would not give up.
[01:23:12] He kept looking for us and they,
[01:23:14] and actually the Morgan thought they had killed us all.
[01:23:16] They thought they'd never knew until several years ago
[01:23:20] that we were still alive.
[01:23:21] No, that's actually a great, and again, obviously,
[01:23:24] I can't cover the whole book on this show,
[01:23:28] but get the book because there's Dick Coward's
[01:23:33] did a great job of actually going out
[01:23:34] and talking to the people that were firing,
[01:23:37] talking to people on the Morgan.
[01:23:39] And you're right, they fired rounds and all of a sudden
[01:23:42] they didn't hear anything.
[01:23:43] And they fired danger, close rounds,
[01:23:45] meaning like rounds that we know are going to be very close
[01:23:47] to our friendly forces.
[01:23:49] And then they never heard another word.
[01:23:51] So their thought was horrible.
[01:23:54] We must have hit our own guys.
[01:23:56] And but luckily, and the other thing that's interesting
[01:23:59] about Bill Woodruff is the other Lieutenant,
[01:24:04] the Vietnamese Lieutenant had actually gotten out to them
[01:24:07] and told him, hey, this is what happened.
[01:24:09] The Lieutenant got killed.
[01:24:11] Mike went to go get him and never came back.
[01:24:15] That's what he got told.
[01:24:16] So the word got back to Woody
[01:24:17] and he called the Newport News and they went out with the Navy
[01:24:20] Blue.
[01:24:21] The Tommy was dead.
[01:24:22] I was missing in action.
[01:24:24] And they were still looking for a quannand egg.
[01:24:27] So.
[01:24:33] OK.
[01:24:34] So here's actually here.
[01:24:35] We're here in the book.
[01:24:36] And again, Dick Coward's did a great job
[01:24:37] getting back with all the guys that were there,
[01:24:41] or at least a lot of them.
[01:24:42] And he's talking to Woody here, Bill Woodruff.
[01:24:46] He says it was about 1130, and I saw the Newport News
[01:24:50] begin to move off to the south.
[01:24:53] Then my junk skipper got a call from the other junk
[01:24:56] that was off to the north and slightly insure from us.
[01:24:59] We were about a half mile apart.
[01:25:02] So as to better search the area, they said they had swimmers
[01:25:05] in the water and we're going to get them.
[01:25:09] You can't know what that meant.
[01:25:12] So there it is.
[01:25:14] Because Bill stuck around.
[01:25:17] And I have the greatest admiration and respect for Bill.
[01:25:23] I'm glad that Bill found us.
[01:25:24] Those bills could do a counterattack.
[01:25:26] And then we had Ryan McCombie down in Tuanon getting a bunch
[01:25:30] of guy.
[01:25:31] Everybody else, it was left to come and find us.
[01:25:33] So that goes back to the things about taking care of your team
[01:25:38] and they did find us because none of those guys
[01:25:44] were made because I mean they had over 600 bad guys up there.
[01:25:47] So sometimes you don't want to leave nobody behind.
[01:25:52] Sometimes you got to take care of losses too.
[01:25:55] It was the two things.
[01:25:58] And I've heard this from other seals and Vietnam.
[01:26:01] Two missions.
[01:26:02] There's no question we're launching on.
[01:26:04] It's down pilot and seals and trouble.
[01:26:06] We're going.
[01:26:07] Yep.
[01:26:08] And that's what those guys that were still in Tuanon were doing.
[01:26:10] They were getting ready to come.
[01:26:11] They're going to come.
[01:26:12] They're coming after us.
[01:26:13] And I think we'd lost everybody trying to get in to get us at the top.
[01:26:20] Because like I said, they had the gun in place.
[01:26:21] And they had tanks in there.
[01:26:23] We weren't the heavy duty guys.
[01:26:25] But that goes back to even what we have today with Eric Krichs
[01:26:31] and trying to go in and losing the guys.
[01:26:35] We're going to go in and get our boys back out.
[01:26:39] And we passed a baton on back from where I am.
[01:26:46] And he's young men who service now.
[01:26:48] I have the greatest admiration.
[01:26:50] There are a lot smarter than I am, because I mean,
[01:26:54] he's going through training now.
[01:26:56] They're all going to college education.
[01:26:57] But they're in list of guys.
[01:26:58] They just have to be in the teams.
[01:27:00] And the training they do is awesome.
[01:27:01] Oh, yes.
[01:27:02] And way better than I had it when I went through it.
[01:27:05] And they're at very high standards, great guys coming through.
[01:27:12] So you guys now get back on board.
[01:27:14] But obviously this didn't vote over yet because you got severely wounded, especially Tommy
[01:27:18] Norris.
[01:27:19] And you actually told them, bring the new port news back because there's a...
[01:27:22] Correct.
[01:27:23] There's a doctor.
[01:27:24] I knew there was a doctor on board because it was a Navy cruiser.
[01:27:26] And they had a Lieutenant Commander on board.
[01:27:28] And I called Woody and I said, we have 4WIA in one critical.
[01:27:35] And the new port news did turn around and we started steaming.
[01:27:39] And our junk...
[01:27:40] Woody was on the other junk.
[01:27:41] Our junk got there first.
[01:27:44] And we passed down.
[01:27:45] I was a...
[01:27:49] Boatson chair, then we passed down.
[01:27:51] Rigor, then we put Tommy inside that and he got him up there.
[01:27:55] And I actually picked Tommy up out of it and carried him down because the thing was too
[01:28:01] wide to get through the hatch.
[01:28:02] So I picked Tommy back up and carried him down and laid him on the gurney and the doctor's
[01:28:06] office.
[01:28:07] And then I got called to the bridge to debrief the admiral.
[01:28:12] What would go on?
[01:28:14] This is again a great find by Dick Couch, another seal that wrote the book, another
[01:28:19] Vietnam seal.
[01:28:21] And he found a guy named Chuck Zender.
[01:28:25] And Chuck Zender was a corpsman on the USS Newport News.
[01:28:30] And I'm not sure why Dick Couch found him or how that worked, but he's the guy that
[01:28:35] he found.
[01:28:37] And he's talking about when you guys came on board and what was interesting was that
[01:28:45] a few months before.
[01:28:46] Actually, a month earlier they had a turret explosion on the USS Newport News.
[01:28:53] And it killed 11.
[01:28:57] 11 and wounded 62.
[01:29:01] And so they these the medical staff on that was they were kind of primed.
[01:29:06] Luckily they were used to.
[01:29:07] They had just been through basically a horrible mass casualty drill and they were somewhat
[01:29:12] ready for it, which again by the grace of God.
[01:29:15] They were there some recent experience with dealing with wounded.
[01:29:19] And so that's why they were ready for this.
[01:29:21] And that's according to Chuck Zender, this this corpsman.
[01:29:24] And here's here's Chuck Zender talking, when they came aboard, they were pretty scruffy
[01:29:29] lot.
[01:29:30] My job in handling casualties was triage.
[01:29:33] I saw them first evaluated them and sent them onto a senior medical person corpsman
[01:29:37] or doctor for treatment.
[01:29:39] I remember seeing this one American I couldn't believe his head wound.
[01:29:43] His forehead was simply blown away.
[01:29:46] I had two thoughts.
[01:29:47] One, it was a good thing he was in salt water or he had a blood to death.
[01:29:52] My second thought was this man will not be alive in the morning.
[01:29:58] He went straight to doctor for Cheerio, for Cheerio, who was waiting for him in surgery.
[01:30:06] There was this big guy who was with him and he carried him from the fan tail to the sick
[01:30:11] bay.
[01:30:12] We had to force him to let go so we could treat him.
[01:30:16] He wanted to go into surgery with him.
[01:30:23] So that was you.
[01:30:24] So obviously.
[01:30:26] And he also said that when they came out and said, hey, we need to check you out and you
[01:30:37] looked and you said no, the Tommy comes first.
[01:30:39] The rest of us can wait.
[01:30:45] This is Chuck's under talking again while we were treating the Vietnamese seals.
[01:30:48] I kept my eye on the big American.
[01:30:50] I finally got him to sit down so we could look him over.
[01:30:53] I saw blood on his pant leg and I cut into his trouser.
[01:30:56] I saw bullet hole on his leg.
[01:30:58] My eyes got big and I called another corpsman over to look at it.
[01:31:01] I said we better treat that and the seal said something like, yeah, whatever.
[01:31:06] He just didn't seem to care.
[01:31:09] When he did care about the others and kept asking about them, especially his lieutenant.
[01:31:15] We knew he was a lieutenant because the other big American seal said he was.
[01:31:18] He had no rank and signal on him.
[01:31:25] So again, your number one priority is your teammates for another person.
[01:31:37] So you guys make it back.
[01:31:40] The ship gets you back to land, Tommy eventually gets casualty of evacuation to the
[01:31:46] Philippines.
[01:31:47] Yeah, I got on the radio and Ryan McCumbee and we met at Tommy off by helicopter to
[01:31:57] denying and Ryan flew down on a helicopter and he was waiting in denying and Ryan
[01:32:02] stayed with Tommy the nice Senate 141.
[01:32:06] Well, we knew we were going to be at our POW, but people like that out.
[01:32:14] So all the top doctors, you know, your surgeons, all those guys were over there because
[01:32:18] they had already pulled everybody out of Vietnam with the exception.
[01:32:22] I just general practitioners.
[01:32:24] And by the time we got Tommy through the whole operation, you got him to the Philippines
[01:32:29] to Clarks.
[01:32:30] It was almost 19 hours long, the Metavac, then his operation lasted 19 1.5 hours, his first
[01:32:38] operation.
[01:32:40] And they stayed in touch with us, but I stayed on board the new port and used to the
[01:32:43] following day to take care of the Vietnamese spoke English, but I spoke pretty, I mean,
[01:32:50] I was fluent in Vietnamese and so I stayed on there until we got them all packed up.
[01:32:57] This is the doctor talking major Walter Grand.
[01:33:01] He's the neurosurgeon that they had to get this guy get Tommy Norris to in the Philippines.
[01:33:06] And he says, when he arrived, we took him directly into the OR.
[01:33:11] At the time, General Military Battlefield Protocol held that the patient needed to be,
[01:33:16] needed to be, or should be conscious going into surgery.
[01:33:21] And I was surprised that someone with this series of a head wound would be conscious and
[01:33:25] conversant, fortunately he was.
[01:33:28] He was still dressed in his operational gear, which were blue jeans and a black t-shirt
[01:33:32] as some kind.
[01:33:33] As I was conducting my initial examination, I remember that he was conscious, but just
[01:33:38] barely.
[01:33:39] I could tell he'd been through a lot.
[01:33:43] Then he seemed to come more alert and ask, sir, can you tell me about my men?
[01:33:49] I know we got them all off the beach, but can you tell me if they're okay?
[01:33:55] That's the team's.
[01:34:06] Now they get done with the surgery that you're talking about incredibly long surgery.
[01:34:13] And here's the doctor talking again on removing the bandage and inspecting the wound.
[01:34:19] We talked and I sensed that he didn't know that he no longer had a left eye.
[01:34:26] I was reluctant to tell him as he had endured a great deal, but he was a pretty tough fellow,
[01:34:31] so I told him that we were unable to save his left eye.
[01:34:37] He thought about it for a second.
[01:34:40] And then said, do you think they'll kick me out of the Navy because of that?
[01:34:46] I said that I couldn't really answer that, but I took it as a good sign that he still
[01:34:50] wanted to be a seal.
[01:34:55] In the funny part, it wasn't the eye as much as it was, the loss of the front-level part
[01:34:59] of his brain.
[01:35:00] I actually don't think that's funny, sir.
[01:35:03] I don't think it is either.
[01:35:06] So when you say that, what do you mean that what was the, you're saying, hey, they're
[01:35:11] not going to kick you out of the even though you've lost part of your brain?
[01:35:14] Well, I think that was one of the, we talked about it because he wanted to stay.
[01:35:19] And he was already chosen to be a lieutenant commander at that period of time.
[01:35:24] And of course, you own medical hold that goes to stop.
[01:35:29] But Tommy would have been a great, he would have been a great admiral.
[01:35:33] I mean, he really would have done a proud, as of Ryan McCombie too.
[01:35:37] And a few other guys who didn't go up through the ranks of, to the top, but we've had
[01:35:43] some great leadership up there and Eric Olson, Bill McCraven, Joe McCjock,
[01:35:51] Carnon, McGuire, the Burke Allen.
[01:35:54] I mean, the way you look at, I watched the teams grow from, yeah, of, O'Four was as high
[01:36:00] as you could go and still be in the teams.
[01:36:02] And now look at the, look at their thing.
[01:36:03] And the guys who just amazed me every time I look and read something or something, how
[01:36:09] much, I'm so proud of each one of these young men who serve as great nation.
[01:36:13] Yeah, it's amazing again that the attitudes just constant.
[01:36:21] And you know, I had this with my guys that got wounded and none of them wanted to go home.
[01:36:24] They wanted to just stay.
[01:36:26] Yeah.
[01:36:27] They didn't care if they just had to stay in watch.
[01:36:28] They wanted to stay with us in Iraq.
[01:36:31] Well, you know, I mean, how proud all you guys were when we were there that molossin
[01:36:36] and you guys were saving your words and the Pentagon, you know, after Mike E. Montzure.
[01:36:40] And you know, you look at the guys are and Joe and those guys, of course, you know, he
[01:36:49] lost his life in a very basic operation.
[01:36:53] But you know, even though when they had the diversity against them, they continued to
[01:36:59] strive to make their life better.
[01:37:01] Well, Ryan Joe was the classic example.
[01:37:03] Don't you know, he was blind and both eyes.
[01:37:04] He was telling me, he wanted, he was already back in America.
[01:37:07] And he's on the phone telling me, can I please come back to Iraq?
[01:37:10] I want to be with the platoon.
[01:37:11] Yeah.
[01:37:12] Yeah.
[01:37:13] And he goes and gets his college education.
[01:37:16] He has a beautiful family.
[01:37:17] And he's, I remember there when I was able to put the purple heart on him and Tommy and I
[01:37:23] were there with Admiral Olson, of course.
[01:37:27] Was that in Epiphesda?
[01:37:28] Where was that?
[01:37:29] Was that in the hospital?
[01:37:30] No, no, no.
[01:37:31] He was at the Pentagon.
[01:37:32] Oh, I didn't want to say anything.
[01:37:33] Oh, I didn't want to say anything.
[01:37:34] It was the one that we had for you guys, the big ones.
[01:37:36] And then we went down and he gave other from the team three.
[01:37:40] We gave a Collin Green was there.
[01:37:42] Yeah.
[01:37:43] Yeah, this is the top of the exhaust.
[01:37:44] It was the task.
[01:37:45] You know, Bruce or a Ward ceremony at the Pentagon.
[01:37:48] Yeah.
[01:37:49] We were all pretty surprised to be there doing that.
[01:37:54] But yeah, Ryan Job, so you guys put the purple heart on him there.
[01:37:57] Yeah, got it.
[01:37:58] Yeah, he's had the same attitude that you hear from Tommy and I was, hey, can I stay in?
[01:38:03] Can I be there?
[01:38:04] Be with the guys.
[01:38:08] How much longer were you in Vietnam after that operation?
[01:38:12] That was October 31st and I came home on a break in November and I came home for good in January.
[01:38:23] So then everybody left in March of 73.
[01:38:29] And Woody and run the rest of the guys they stayed there and they came back as a little final thing.
[01:38:36] And it broke see and Woody and a Chamberlain and Harry kind of cool.
[01:38:40] And all those guys Brad Bill Bradford and stuff.
[01:38:44] And that was the last sales of course.
[01:38:48] And we got involved with Delta Baton, you know, with the Cambodia issue and all that kind of stuff.
[01:38:54] And the Philippines and stuff like that.
[01:38:57] You uh, you talk about coming home here.
[01:39:01] I'm going to the book coming back to the team this time was different from my first Vietnam tour.
[01:39:05] When you were labeled a one tour wonder, which is by the way, still what you get called in this day and age.
[01:39:12] You come home from your first deployment or even from my Thailand tour.
[01:39:15] At Seal team one, you were not a made man until after your second combat rotation.
[01:39:21] It was not so much respect from the team veterans as many of them had been on four or five combat rotations.
[01:39:27] It had more to do with acceptance.
[01:39:30] I was now one of them. When guys like Gary Gallagher and Walt Gustavl and Doc Seal came up to you and said,
[01:39:38] Nice job over there or good work getting your lieutenant back off that beach.
[01:39:42] It really meant something.
[01:39:46] There was also getting to know my kid who thought I was some stranger, which I was and getting reacquainted with my wife.
[01:39:56] I've been gone more than I was at home since we were married.
[01:40:00] And there was the absence of combat.
[01:40:04] Both the worrying of having to go in the field and in some ways missing the anticipation of getting ready to go on an operation.
[01:40:14] And the rush that comes from combat.
[01:40:18] I looked at all this as normal for any seal coming home, but it was still an adjustment.
[01:40:24] So you guys same stuff the guys go through now.
[01:40:28] Same exact stuff guys go through now.
[01:40:32] And our spouses don't get enough credit for what they do.
[01:40:35] I mean they raise our kids, families they take on stuff that we should be there to try to help them with.
[01:40:41] But we have amazing spouses in the teams too.
[01:40:46] And we have a lot better.
[01:40:48] The first thing I mentioned my wife is that it was the Navy issue.
[01:40:52] Now we have a whole different outlook thing.
[01:40:56] There are part of our lives and they make it better for all of us.
[01:41:02] The military while all the military wives.
[01:41:06] Oh yeah.
[01:41:07] What they do.
[01:41:08] Yeah they're raising the kids, but they're also fixing water heaters and you know repair and plumbing.
[01:41:14] And they're just doing everything in the house.
[01:41:16] Like we said stuff that we're supposed to be doing for our home.
[01:41:20] So they had to put up with all the BS with a man taking a car in there trying to sell.
[01:41:27] I know how to change all of the, they said you know, try to pull that one over my eyes.
[01:41:33] Now going back to the book, this is you talking.
[01:41:37] I was notified in September that I would receive the Medal of Honor.
[01:41:40] I locked those through your mind when something like that is going to happen to you.
[01:41:44] You try and play it down in your mind like it's no big deal.
[01:41:47] But it really is a big deal.
[01:41:50] Everyone in uniform knows it's a big deal.
[01:41:53] I felt humbled and undeserving.
[01:41:57] And I swore that I was not going to change me.
[01:42:03] Well you know, Mike Thorns always been a renegade and probably always will be a renegade.
[01:42:12] And then I want to let it change me.
[01:42:17] When I went back to get the medal, they wouldn't let Tommy out of the hospital.
[01:42:20] So I kid never.
[01:42:22] So Tommy was still recovering from the head of the house.
[01:42:25] Yes, he was still.
[01:42:26] And this is this is what a year later.
[01:42:28] Yeah, a year later.
[01:42:29] And Tommy still, I mean, he's just going through all these all the surgeries and everything else.
[01:42:34] I mean, Tommy went through surgeries for six and a half years and still goes even now.
[01:42:38] So you know, it's unbelievable.
[01:42:40] I mean, so I was.
[01:42:43] But they wouldn't let him out of the hospital go to your ceremony.
[01:42:45] So I said, hey, this is not, I said, I'll bring him back.
[01:42:49] You know, they said, no, I said, well, I'm going to get in trouble when I take him out.
[01:42:53] So I kept him for four days, put him my hotel and never feel his name.
[01:42:56] And everybody in the world's looking for it in the surgeon general of the Navy, which is a three-star, put me on report.
[01:43:03] And how to go to Adonels and Master does.
[01:43:06] That's not my first one.
[01:43:09] You know, Tony Frady, who is the Charlie Petir and Chief, we used to talk about Mike Forton and we'd say, you know, just on random days, we'd say, hey, you know what Mike Forton's doing today?
[01:43:19] Whatever Mike Forton wants to do today.
[01:43:25] So you just smuggled him out of the hospital against orders, went to Adonels, masked.
[01:43:34] You talk a little bit about the ceremony here, going back to the book, we showed up at the White House for the ceremony.
[01:43:40] Then we were all taken into the oval office and I was presented with the medal.
[01:43:44] I'll never forget President Nixon saying, Mike, what can I do for you?
[01:43:49] And I said, well, Mr. President, you could break this medal in half and give the other half to this young man, which was Tom Norris, you were pointing to, standing behind me, because he saved my life too.
[01:44:06] So again, even in the end there, you are, you're looking out for your teammate.
[01:44:15] All the way through.
[01:44:20] We still look at it for each other even today after 46 years.
[01:44:25] So I never, it's a job that you never give up.
[01:44:31] Well, the book, like I said, I mean, we've covered a fraction of the book and it gives so much more detail.
[01:44:40] It goes on to talk about the rest of your Navy career. It goes on to talk about, and obviously it talks about Tommy Norris's career as the FBI agent, by the way, went into the FBI and wasn't undercover operative.
[01:44:55] I mean, just unbelievable.
[01:44:57] Unbelievable.
[01:44:59] You got to get this book so that you can get the full details of what I'm talking about.
[01:45:06] And the last thing I wanted to read from the book is the citation from your Medal of Honor.
[01:45:16] Please don't.
[01:45:21] They can go on one or read it.
[01:45:24] But the book's called By Honor, Found Ladies and gentlemen, I never felt I deserve them.
[01:45:33] I never felt I would deserve them, but you know that.
[01:45:36] I wear that with the honor of the men in women who served before me served with me in served after me.
[01:45:42] But a lot of people don't know.
[01:45:44] We've lost to me in 853,000 people.
[01:45:48] This great nation does enjoy our freedom today.
[01:45:51] And that's who we can never forget.
[01:45:53] And freedom is not free.
[01:45:55] And we must honor each and every one of them.
[01:45:59] And they all deserve the Medal of Skill and their lives for a great nation.
[01:46:03] Of course, Mikey Munsour, like I said before, what a great young man I knew Mikey.
[01:46:10] And I feel for all our girls, star families.
[01:46:14] Because I've never, not come wood, I've never lost a child.
[01:46:18] But I've lost a lot of a lot of close great friends.
[01:46:21] And I know what part of that they're going through, but you know, until you lose a child,
[01:46:28] a child of your own.
[01:46:30] That you've got as blessed you to give.
[01:46:33] It's hard to people to understand, but free is not free.
[01:46:36] It's written in blood as you know, Chuck.
[01:46:42] Well, yeah.
[01:46:46] And you know, I can't even fathom for what it's like to lose a child.
[01:46:53] I know, you know, it's, um,
[01:46:57] I can't even fathom.
[01:47:00] And, you know, when I hear people throwing the word here all around, you know,
[01:47:08] I always, I always say what I hear a lot of veterans say,
[01:47:15] and that is the real heroes didn't come home.
[01:47:20] Well, I agree with you.
[01:47:23] But at least we did get them home.
[01:47:25] And we still continue to try to get the ones that remains of the ones home.
[01:47:30] Um,
[01:47:34] Well, you know, the, like I said,
[01:47:41] if you go and get this book,
[01:47:45] you can, you can read it.
[01:47:47] You can learn a lot about these operations.
[01:47:50] You can learn a lot about people.
[01:47:52] And what people are capable of.
[01:47:57] And what real sacrifice looks like.
[01:48:01] And, you know, Mike again,
[01:48:05] um,
[01:48:09] like everyone's going to want to tell you and it tells you all the time.
[01:48:13] Thank you for the service that you made for our country.
[01:48:18] But as a seal, I want to say thank you for setting the example that we followed.
[01:48:25] And as a person and as a human being.
[01:48:30] Thank you for showing us that we're all capable of more than we thought.
[01:48:39] And no matter how dire the circumstances,
[01:48:44] no matter how many enemy forces are advancing, no matter how many rounds they're firing at you,
[01:48:49] no how many grenades they throw at you,
[01:48:52] no matter how big the problems that you face in life.
[01:49:01] Never quit on yourself and never quit on each other.
[01:49:07] Very well put, or draco.
[01:49:11] I think we've kept you here long enough.
[01:49:15] Well, echo, I'm sorry you didn't get a whole lot of speaking time there, buddy.
[01:49:19] No, enjoy the list of the things.
[01:49:21] That's what echo does.
[01:49:23] He gets the lucky job.
[01:49:25] He just hit back and listen to all some stories.
[01:49:27] But thanks for coming on.
[01:49:29] As my honor, thank you for what you're doing and getting the word out to the public.
[01:49:35] I've been, because as like I say, freedom is not free ladies and gentlemen, freedom is written and blooded.
[01:49:42] And please don't take advantage of this.
[01:49:44] You know, give back to the ones who are given so much.
[01:49:48] And I guess back to what you and I were talking about too.
[01:49:51] I mean, the wives, the children, the sacrifices they make for their spouses to go overseas and keep
[01:49:59] this nation free.
[01:50:00] And what's the organization that you have now?
[01:50:03] This called the Michael E. Thornton Foundation, the Met Fund.
[01:50:06] We give out money.
[01:50:09] And I don't give out, you know, 50,000 or 100,000.
[01:50:14] I give out 10,000 here and 5,000 there.
[01:50:18] And our Met Foundation, basically, or I'll give out 20,000.
[01:50:24] And just a couple examples.
[01:50:27] One was a young Marine came back.
[01:50:29] He was a corporal.
[01:50:30] They retired him.
[01:50:31] But of course, it now takes a beating word from 19 months to two years to get into the VA.
[01:50:37] He had these bad headaches, but he didn't have enough money to pay for his co-payments.
[01:50:42] So I write a check to the MRI to the hospital.
[01:50:45] I wrote the right to check.
[01:50:46] They're doing MRI.
[01:50:47] Find out he had a brain aneurysm and was able to say the young man's life.
[01:50:52] Another one, we had a guy in Special Ops.
[01:50:55] He was an Air Force Major, Intel Officer at J.S.
[01:50:58] He was over season.
[01:51:01] His wife got done with the stage for cancer.
[01:51:04] We put her in the Duke University.
[01:51:06] I try to save her life.
[01:51:08] Our friend, Dima, goes back to the day when we started SIL team six.
[01:51:12] And along with started J.S.
[01:51:14] I can 1980.
[01:51:15] He was our chaplain.
[01:51:17] He was a Catholic chaplain.
[01:51:18] And he calls him and said, Mike, I hear you get a great foundation.
[01:51:21] I have a problem.
[01:51:22] I said, well, I need your problem.
[01:51:23] I do, I do diligence.
[01:51:25] We're able to get their kids into this, back to this Christian school.
[01:51:30] Which all the kids, they're right from the age of seven to ten or eleven.
[01:51:36] I can't remember.
[01:51:37] And there's three of them, but they had spent their whole school time there.
[01:51:42] But the father calls us the coal payments.
[01:51:45] We said, I'd already built up to like a hundred something thousand laws for the coal payments.
[01:51:49] I paid for the kids to wish and wrote a check, which was a little bit over eighteen thousand dollars.
[01:51:54] You know, for all, put them back in there.
[01:51:57] But at least they had a stable platform.
[01:52:00] And everybody knew what was going with the mother.
[01:52:03] Yeah.
[01:52:04] All the teachers knew the kids and stuff like that.
[01:52:06] And then at that period of time, I go back and I make some phone calls to some good friends of mine in New York City.
[01:52:12] And they took care of the over the hundred something thousand dollar coal payments.
[01:52:16] So I put a bandaid on the problem.
[01:52:19] And then I try to go other.
[01:52:20] But I mean, the call for fires and for it.
[01:52:23] Yeah.
[01:52:24] But I mean, I worked with the Navy Civil Foundation, Navy Civil Family Foundation.
[01:52:29] We worked with keeping our history of the museum.
[01:52:34] It was John Lee does a great job that we do up at Pebble Beach, the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation, which is the number one foundation.
[01:52:44] In the nation, it give or ninety nine cents of every dollar raised.
[01:52:48] And I give ninety seven cents of every dollar raised.
[01:52:51] I do have one administrator.
[01:52:53] I pay for some of my wife and I can travel around and take care of that.
[01:52:59] But there's some great foundations out there.
[01:53:02] I just tell them, make sure you do your due diligence on their foundations.
[01:53:05] You just go online and check them out and if they're four store or five store.
[01:53:09] And find out.
[01:53:10] But all the foundations I work with is going to give at least ninety four cents of every dollar raised.
[01:53:16] Out for the calls.
[01:53:17] Where can they find your foundation?
[01:53:19] Just pull up the matte fund.
[01:53:22] Okay.
[01:53:23] Online is MET.
[01:53:24] Yeah.
[01:53:25] Fund.
[01:53:26] The matte fund or the Michael Lee Thornton.
[01:53:28] I put my name on the book.
[01:53:30] Stop for the May of some nice point fingers.
[01:53:32] They only get one finger to point.
[01:53:33] I'll take full responsibility.
[01:53:35] What I do.
[01:53:36] So it's always half.
[01:53:37] You know, don't do.
[01:53:39] And I have people like Bob Kerry, Congress.
[01:53:42] And just be a nut metal of honor.
[01:53:44] Some of my board.
[01:53:45] I have an admiral on my board.
[01:53:47] I have two really great business men on my board.
[01:53:50] And I have supports of people all already on states.
[01:53:55] Which helps support.
[01:53:56] They call as they said they used to give money to other foundations.
[01:53:59] But they didn't like the way the money was made.
[01:54:01] It supported.
[01:54:02] So they give me the.
[01:54:03] And I and like I say, we.
[01:54:06] Make sure we take here.
[01:54:07] I mean, if like my blows up the engine, I have the engine.
[01:54:11] Having a bad month.
[01:54:12] They got laid off.
[01:54:13] And we pay for the ramp.
[01:54:15] We write the check to the we don't give it to the person we give it to the complex or we give it to the hospital or we give it to the doctor.
[01:54:24] So that way I know the money is going where it's supposed to be going.
[01:54:27] So they can get the take care of their problems.
[01:54:32] Well, obviously, your service isn't quite over yet.
[01:54:35] You're still serving in still helping veterans and seals across the board.
[01:54:40] And once again, sir, thank you for coming on.
[01:54:43] It's been an honor knowing you.
[01:54:45] It's been an honor talking to you.
[01:54:47] And I look forward to talking to you again.
[01:54:49] So we will.
[01:54:50] Just keep going.
[01:54:51] Once you're doing it, I go keep them out of trouble.
[01:54:53] Yes, sir.
[01:54:54] Thank you very much for having me.
[01:54:56] Thank you.
[01:54:58] All right.
[01:54:59] We just took a technical break.
[01:55:02] And Mike Ford has left the building.
[01:55:05] Yeah.
[01:55:06] And went to go do what Mike Ford does.
[01:55:08] Whatever you want.
[01:55:09] Which is pretty much whatever you want.
[01:55:10] And it was awesome. Obviously.
[01:55:13] Have fun.
[01:55:14] Agreed.
[01:55:15] And when Mike Ford tells you, don't read my citation.
[01:55:19] You don't read the citation.
[01:55:20] Simple as that.
[01:55:21] No, no, no.
[01:55:22] No factor.
[01:55:23] Yes.
[01:55:24] No factor at all.
[01:55:25] Yeah.
[01:55:26] Well, I need to get it.
[01:55:27] But awesome.
[01:55:28] Have fun.
[01:55:29] Obviously.
[01:55:30] And now.
[01:55:33] We want to keep having people like Mike Ford on the podcast.
[01:55:37] If somebody wanted to help us have people on this podcast.
[01:55:41] Sure.
[01:55:42] Do you have any suggestions on how they could maybe lend to that effort?
[01:55:47] Yeah.
[01:55:47] The support?
[01:55:48] Sure.
[01:55:49] Oh, yeah.
[01:55:50] Basically, that's what I'm saying.
[01:55:51] Wait a support.
[01:55:52] Yeah.
[01:55:53] Of course.
[01:55:54] Here's the way.
[01:55:56] And support yourself.
[01:55:58] What's kind of the thing.
[01:56:00] You know?
[01:56:01] What's good for the goose is good.
[01:56:03] You know what I'm saying?
[01:56:04] Maybe.
[01:56:05] Origin.
[01:56:06] We're in league with origin as you put it.
[01:56:09] Yes.
[01:56:10] I do put it that way.
[01:56:11] Sure.
[01:56:12] Yeah.
[01:56:12] So origin main.
[01:56:13] So origin main the state.
[01:56:15] Just so to be clear.
[01:56:17] Yes.
[01:56:18] Origin.
[01:56:18] I mean, I mean, you might be like main.
[01:56:20] I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean,
[01:56:22] you know, like the state.
[01:56:23] The main one kind of kind of, which makes sense.
[01:56:25] By the way, yeah.
[01:56:26] Yeah.
[01:56:27] Because it is the main one.
[01:56:28] Totally.
[01:56:29] And so, you know, a lot of times.
[01:56:32] Like, okay, we'll take the geese.
[01:56:33] That's why I first heard of origin.
[01:56:35] Yeah.
[01:56:36] The geese.
[01:56:37] Like all these geese are totally protected.
[01:56:38] You know.
[01:56:39] And of course, you know, but that technically is kind of a matter of opinion.
[01:56:43] As far as like, okay, I'm going to look at this geese.
[01:56:45] And be like, okay, no, I'm going to look at someone might like forward more than
[01:56:48] Chevy or whatever.
[01:56:49] Yeah.
[01:56:50] Or the look, especially with the geese, like, you know, the subtle differences.
[01:56:54] Kind of, you know, it's to each their own kind of thing.
[01:56:57] Yeah.
[01:56:58] I guess you're going to like, full on fashion realm.
[01:57:00] Here tends to.
[01:57:01] Which I don't go into.
[01:57:02] I'm looking for functionality.
[01:57:03] You probably could guess that.
[01:57:04] Yes.
[01:57:05] So yeah, and you look into it.
[01:57:07] So the functionality part.
[01:57:08] Yes.
[01:57:09] All that.
[01:57:10] Of course.
[01:57:11] But when you see made in America, this is like the epitome.
[01:57:16] This is the that basically the defining situation.
[01:57:19] So, you know, you know, have to be like, hey, made in America, but then, you know,
[01:57:25] it's closer or whatever.
[01:57:26] Same in the case closed.
[01:57:27] But then you say, okay, dang those are good shirts.
[01:57:29] You know, where do you get your blanks from or whatever.
[01:57:32] Now, oh, we get them from, you know, somewhere other than America kind of thing.
[01:57:36] No, the cotton.
[01:57:37] Get the cotton from America.
[01:57:39] That's what origin did.
[01:57:40] That actual cotton.
[01:57:42] Yeah.
[01:57:43] Well, I mean, I mean, you talk about functionality, just kind of FYI.
[01:57:46] Yeah.
[01:57:47] Uh, when you have a guy that's making the geese and therefore it's going to weave the material to make the geese with.
[01:57:53] He's going to make material that is specifically the best to have for a geat.
[01:58:00] Right.
[01:58:01] And you're going to waste with origin.
[01:58:02] That type of commitment.
[01:58:05] Yes.
[01:58:06] That's why we're a league with origin.
[01:58:08] Yeah, totally makes sense.
[01:58:10] You can kind of, we have that mindset over on this side.
[01:58:13] It makes sense.
[01:58:14] Well, so yeah, origin that that's the one I'm looking forward to my geat.
[01:58:20] And I'm down for geese by the way.
[01:58:23] But yeah, so I'm looking forward to that one.
[01:58:26] Origin main, OR IG, I am an I and E.
[01:58:31] Just to be clear just in case.
[01:58:33] And it's not just geese.
[01:58:34] Yeah.
[01:58:34] You can get the hash guards.
[01:58:36] That's glad.
[01:58:37] Yeah.
[01:58:38] And we're going to be making everything there.
[01:58:40] Yeah.
[01:58:41] We're going to make everything there.
[01:58:42] Everything that I utilize in my life.
[01:58:44] Yeah.
[01:58:45] I'm going to make it.
[01:58:47] It's like the, you're going to kind of come out with almost like a life kit.
[01:58:50] It's really what it is to get.
[01:58:52] Don't use the re-box terminology, bro.
[01:58:54] That's re-box.
[01:58:55] Yeah, because the re-box calls it like the UFC fight kit.
[01:58:58] Ah, okay.
[01:58:59] But I didn't know that.
[01:59:01] Man, not not a kit.
[01:59:02] The word kit is universal.
[01:59:04] No, the word kit is universal word.
[01:59:05] Which I do concur with.
[01:59:06] Right.
[01:59:07] But what did you call it?
[01:59:08] The kit.
[01:59:09] That's what I called it.
[01:59:10] I guess so.
[01:59:11] So you could call it the brits call it kit.
[01:59:13] They call their op gear.
[01:59:15] Like their web gear.
[01:59:16] Yeah.
[01:59:16] They call it kit.
[01:59:17] Yeah.
[01:59:18] Which means that we also, because we have interoperability with the brits and with the
[01:59:22] Aussies.
[01:59:23] Sure.
[01:59:24] And also, tend to call our gear kit.
[01:59:27] So yes, in fact, you are correct.
[01:59:29] If you were to say, I'm going to make all my kit there.
[01:59:33] Right.
[01:59:34] The answer is yes.
[01:59:35] But there's a fine line where people might think of the UFC fight kit, which didn't go over real well when they first came out.
[01:59:46] Yeah, hey, and you know what we're going to let that be there thing?
[01:59:49] For sure.
[01:59:50] Is it going well or not going well? This one, what would it be?
[01:59:54] Like kind of like the diss unofficial discipline equals freedom kit.
[01:59:58] How about we just call it gear?
[02:00:00] Yeah, we could just call it gear, I guess.
[02:00:02] That's my vote.
[02:00:04] All right.
[02:00:04] I don't rule the world.
[02:00:06] So if you want to call it kit on your side and I'll call it gear over here.
[02:00:09] Yeah.
[02:00:09] Let's do that.
[02:00:10] You know, that way you're comfortable.
[02:00:11] Yeah.
[02:00:11] I'm all about everyone being comfortable with what they're saying.
[02:00:14] Technically, it'll be a kit with gear in it.
[02:00:16] Okay.
[02:00:17] Okay.
[02:00:21] Right.
[02:00:22] Okay.
[02:00:23] You got like survival kit.
[02:00:24] Yeah.
[02:00:25] I got a survival kit when I was six years old and it's got a compass in a whistle and a pair of matches in it.
[02:00:29] What happens if you use both matches?
[02:00:31] You're in trouble.
[02:00:32] So that's a survival kit.
[02:00:34] Why do you have a whistle?
[02:00:36] You just said whistle.
[02:00:37] Yeah.
[02:00:38] Yeah.
[02:00:38] But you know when you're a little kid you get lost in the woods, would you suppose to blow on the whistle for a while?
[02:00:42] No.
[02:00:43] No.
[02:00:44] Sorry.
[02:00:45] I didn't go on.
[02:00:47] Why did you do it in Kauai when you got lost?
[02:00:49] You just keep hitting in one direction and bring each other.
[02:00:52] Yeah.
[02:00:53] Or up in the mountains.
[02:00:54] So it's kind of they call it Malka and Maka.
[02:00:56] Malka is mountain.
[02:00:57] So that's kind of the directions.
[02:00:59] Yeah.
[02:01:00] So otherwise you just keep walking.
[02:01:02] That's a good lesson for life too.
[02:01:04] But we're all in the mountains one time.
[02:01:06] Long story.
[02:01:07] Maybe some other time.
[02:01:08] Back to origin.
[02:01:09] Please another time.
[02:01:10] So boom.
[02:01:12] Origin main.
[02:01:13] All made in America.
[02:01:15] Rash guards.
[02:01:17] Gees.
[02:01:18] All like it's just like yeah.
[02:01:21] And by the way, the supplements there too.
[02:01:23] Yeah.
[02:01:24] Supplements.
[02:01:25] Origin labs.
[02:01:26] Yeah.
[02:01:27] So you can find it all there.
[02:01:28] Yeah.
[02:01:29] It's dope.
[02:01:30] And we are going to make basically what we're talking about here.
[02:01:34] Jocquist supplements.
[02:01:35] Because again, one of I specifically want.
[02:01:38] I'm pretty particular.
[02:01:39] Let's make that thing.
[02:01:40] Yeah.
[02:01:41] And then we go forward.
[02:01:42] The good part about that is to is you're kind of one of these guys you can rest assured.
[02:01:46] You're not going to have like this these weird extra things like I don't know.
[02:01:50] You know, hair dye or something like that.
[02:01:52] Or will not be selling a hair dye.
[02:01:54] Yeah.
[02:01:55] Or something like this.
[02:01:56] So yeah.
[02:01:57] That would be good.
[02:01:58] The good stuff for sure.
[02:01:59] Or domain.com.
[02:02:00] Yes.
[02:02:01] Also.
[02:02:02] Support yourself.
[02:02:03] So on it.
[02:02:04] I'm not going to go into my kettlebell situation again.
[02:02:07] It's time.
[02:02:08] Actually yesterday I worked that I didn't do kettlebell.
[02:02:10] I did.
[02:02:11] I just waited for you.
[02:02:12] That was it was like an article that said that those little gobs were not bill big.
[02:02:19] Yeah.
[02:02:20] And that was a funny article for sure.
[02:02:22] I don't know.
[02:02:23] You know what the title was called something along the lines of.
[02:02:26] I'm trying to make remember it exact.
[02:02:28] It's it was called 14 ways to avoid being bigger.
[02:02:31] No, to remain a puny little weakling actually puny.
[02:02:36] I think no, do we do we do we do we do.
[02:02:39] Yeah.
[02:02:40] So apparently given number whatever number that was I'm going to remain a puny little
[02:02:44] doeep apparently here's the thing are those really goblet squats though because goblet squats.
[02:02:50] No, I know what you do.
[02:02:51] You basically do a front shot.
[02:02:53] Yeah.
[02:02:54] Double rack double rack yeah because goblet is like because this is the form of the shape of the
[02:02:57] goblet.
[02:02:58] Yeah.
[02:02:59] That's how you hold it.
[02:03:00] Yeah.
[02:03:01] It is kind of I mean.
[02:03:02] But what if you use like a huge as kettlebell.
[02:03:03] Part of a metcon.
[02:03:04] Yeah.
[02:03:05] That could work.
[02:03:06] In fact.
[02:03:07] But it would ever but it was a real subjective really.
[02:03:10] Yeah.
[02:03:11] I think it was more of a shock article kind of.
[02:03:13] Yeah.
[02:03:14] It was just feel the laugh.
[02:03:15] Yeah.
[02:03:16] But if you take that.
[02:03:17] I don't think it was a serious directive out there trying to help people that have skinny
[02:03:21] knees.
[02:03:22] Spread of them.
[02:03:27] Maybe.
[02:03:28] See real proud of that.
[02:03:29] Look at you.
[02:03:30] Anyway.
[02:03:32] I didn't really like the article on that level.
[02:03:35] But for a laugh it was good.
[02:03:36] And and factually here's the deal.
[02:03:38] Candle bells are legit.
[02:03:39] Yeah.
[02:03:40] And they are.
[02:03:41] Goblet squats are legit.
[02:03:42] But here's the thing.
[02:03:43] There was a good point.
[02:03:44] Hey.
[02:03:45] Yeah.
[02:03:46] I'll tell you what.
[02:03:47] You know where you're talking about what you what you you used to.
[02:03:50] You're good.
[02:03:51] Yeah.
[02:03:52] For some reason I hurt like my wrist or something or I hurt something.
[02:03:56] And I couldn't do.
[02:03:58] Back squats or front squats.
[02:03:59] Oh yeah.
[02:04:00] So I was.
[02:04:01] Yeah.
[02:04:02] It was maybe it was my shoulder.
[02:04:03] Anyways.
[02:04:04] I was doing goblet squats with the.
[02:04:05] With my big kettlebell, which is 40 kilograms.
[02:04:09] And I I had put on the schedule of what I was going to do like 25.
[02:04:15] It was a bunch of it was a metcon scenario.
[02:04:17] I was innocent.
[02:04:18] But the first number was 25.
[02:04:20] It was 25.
[02:04:21] 25.
[02:04:22] Oh the reps.
[02:04:23] Yeah.
[02:04:24] Yeah.
[02:04:25] 25 hurt.
[02:04:26] Yeah.
[02:04:26] I was.
[02:04:27] Dang.
[02:04:28] Because it's only.
[02:04:29] It's only 88 pounds.
[02:04:30] Right.
[02:04:31] That should be.
[02:04:32] That should be pretty insignificant.
[02:04:33] Yeah.
[02:04:34] Because goblet squats.
[02:04:35] Yeah.
[02:04:36] You're using your whole body to keep that thing in mind.
[02:04:38] Yeah.
[02:04:39] Yeah.
[02:04:40] It's good.
[02:04:41] I think my.
[02:04:42] Yeah.
[02:04:43] Yeah.
[02:04:44] I think I'm used to it.
[02:04:45] I think that.
[02:04:46] Yeah.
[02:04:47] And I got used to it.
[02:04:48] And it was pretty short period of time.
[02:04:49] Yeah.
[02:04:50] Yeah.
[02:04:51] So on it.com.
[02:04:52] You can get that kind of stuff there.
[02:04:54] If you want the cool ones.
[02:04:55] I think.
[02:04:56] And I don't know.
[02:04:57] Cause then you know I haven't ventured out.
[02:04:59] And I don't think I ever will ventured out.
[02:05:01] I can get other kettlebells from no need really.
[02:05:04] Cause you can buy the regular ones or the the adult ones.
[02:05:08] And let's face it man.
[02:05:09] You take enough pictures of the adult ones for your Instagram.
[02:05:12] Wherever you take pictures for.
[02:05:14] And you kind of can't go back.
[02:05:16] You can't.
[02:05:17] Hmm.
[02:05:18] So keep that in mind.
[02:05:19] Find it yourself into a kettlebell corner.
[02:05:20] Yeah.
[02:05:21] Exactly.
[02:05:22] Right.
[02:05:23] And you and your social media.
[02:05:24] Yeah.
[02:05:25] Have painted yourself into this.
[02:05:27] Yes.
[02:05:28] Corner.
[02:05:29] Which is not a bad thing.
[02:05:30] On a dot com slash juggle.
[02:05:32] That's where you get these things.
[02:05:33] I painted myself into a corner with my social media.
[02:05:35] I'm going to wake up every day at 430.
[02:05:37] Yeah.
[02:05:38] You got to post it.
[02:05:39] Guess what?
[02:05:40] The other day I got home at 3 o'clock in the morning.
[02:05:41] Or I got I didn't get to sleep until like 130.
[02:05:42] Yeah.
[02:05:43] When I woke up in the morning.
[02:05:44] I was really tired.
[02:05:45] Yeah.
[02:05:46] And I was.
[02:05:48] You know, what am I going to do?
[02:05:49] I'm I'm painting in a corner.
[02:05:51] I had to say hey guys.
[02:05:52] I'm I'm I'm going back to sleep.
[02:05:54] And I actually went back to sleep.
[02:05:55] That's all everyone.
[02:05:56] Yeah.
[02:05:57] See that's good though.
[02:05:58] You took accountability though.
[02:05:59] Yeah.
[02:06:00] I like that's just lying.
[02:06:02] But I don't sport.
[02:06:03] Oh, if you didn't do that.
[02:06:05] If I said, if I woke up took a picture of my watch, which I've had people say,
[02:06:08] like, I bet you just wake up.
[02:06:09] Oh, you ever sometimes just wake up in the morning.
[02:06:11] Take a picture watch and you go back to sleep.
[02:06:13] No, actually.
[02:06:14] I don't do that.
[02:06:15] Yeah.
[02:06:16] It doesn't seem like you could ever bring yourself to do that.
[02:06:17] Well, why would even want it?
[02:06:19] You wouldn't want to do that.
[02:06:20] It's a horrible scenario.
[02:06:21] It kind of defeats the purpose.
[02:06:22] Yeah.
[02:06:23] The whole purpose.
[02:06:24] So the other day woke up.
[02:06:26] Took a picture of my watch.
[02:06:28] And I was like, I got to go back to bed.
[02:06:31] I'm too freaking tired.
[02:06:32] I'm so in fact, a bed.
[02:06:33] But you didn't post it.
[02:06:34] No, no, you posted it.
[02:06:35] But you said I said I said I said I said I said I'm going back to bed.
[02:06:37] I had no, I'm sorry.
[02:06:39] Hold the line for me.
[02:06:41] Yeah, I did your cover for me.
[02:06:42] Actually, that one time we got to cover in snooze.
[02:06:45] Did you guys cover it?
[02:06:48] Get out of here.
[02:06:49] I'm going to be over here snooze.
[02:06:50] Well, hey, that's the freedom part though.
[02:06:51] We'll do something.
[02:06:52] Yeah.
[02:06:53] You have the freedom to even.
[02:06:55] You got to sometimes.
[02:06:56] Yeah.
[02:06:56] But you can't like, well, especially if you're working out and you don't, you straight up don't get enough sleep.
[02:07:01] I'm not saying you don't.
[02:07:02] You don't.
[02:07:03] I don't.
[02:07:04] But that's all what I'm saying, you know.
[02:07:05] But if you, you, the proverbial, you us when we don't get enough recovery.
[02:07:11] Uh-huh.
[02:07:12] Which sleep is recovery.
[02:07:14] Right.
[02:07:15] That's not a good thing, man.
[02:07:17] So everyone's in a while.
[02:07:18] You got to exercise that restraint in the form of the freedom to sleep in.
[02:07:25] Yeah.
[02:07:26] Well, I did.
[02:07:27] Amen.
[02:07:28] That's part of life.
[02:07:29] Anyway, honestly, also the whole painting yourself in the corner case.
[02:07:32] So I got this jump rope and it's like, you know, then I don't know how up to date you
[02:07:36] are on the new jump rope.
[02:07:37] Yeah.
[02:07:38] Yeah.
[02:07:39] They're getting better.
[02:07:40] They're, yeah, they're dope.
[02:07:41] And here's the thing.
[02:07:42] If you just buy a regular jump rope, like you'll see the difference.
[02:07:46] And I mentioned that because I got on it jump rope.
[02:07:49] I told you about the time.
[02:07:50] My neighbor taught me to do the cross over the neighbors.
[02:07:53] And that's when it really hit me like, this is the dope jump rope.
[02:07:56] So if you want to upgrade your jump rope, boom on it, that's the one.
[02:08:00] In fact, just go on there.
[02:08:01] See what up.
[02:08:02] See what they have.
[02:08:03] They have a lot of good stuff.
[02:08:04] A lot of good stuff.
[02:08:06] Also, good way to support.
[02:08:08] When we get this book by honor bound.
[02:08:14] Tom Norse, Mike Thorton, and Dick Couch.
[02:08:18] When you get this book going on our website, jocobotcast.com.
[02:08:21] There's a book section.
[02:08:23] Top menu, boom, click on there.
[02:08:24] Books from podcasts by episode by the way.
[02:08:26] This episode 89.
[02:08:28] Click through there.
[02:08:29] It'll take you to Amazon.
[02:08:30] You get your books there.
[02:08:31] Or even if you can do some other shopping.
[02:08:33] If you're going to buy a lawnmower.
[02:08:35] Talk tape.
[02:08:36] Whatever.
[02:08:37] Click through there.
[02:08:38] Good way to support.
[02:08:40] You know, small little actions.
[02:08:41] One little click through.
[02:08:43] Be a reaction.
[02:08:44] By way of support.
[02:08:46] Also.
[02:08:47] Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already.
[02:08:49] I tuned Stature Google Play all these podcasting providing platforms.
[02:08:54] And YouTube for the video versions podcast and excerpts and some other various little video things.
[02:08:59] That's a good way to support.
[02:09:01] Also, jocobottoor.
[02:09:03] It's called jocobottoor.com.
[02:09:05] There are hats there.
[02:09:07] Good hats.
[02:09:08] Chocobotts.
[02:09:09] Flex fit.
[02:09:10] Three colors.
[02:09:11] Wait, flex fit?
[02:09:12] They're flex fit.
[02:09:13] Wait, they don't have the little thing in the back where you...
[02:09:16] Yeah, they snap back.
[02:09:17] Yeah, they snap back.
[02:09:18] No, I think they're flex fit.
[02:09:20] They don't make trucker hats at our flex fit.
[02:09:22] I don't think they do now.
[02:09:24] Oh, okay.
[02:09:25] Pretty sure.
[02:09:26] I'm fairly positive.
[02:09:27] Well, they're hats.
[02:09:28] Yeah.
[02:09:29] And they're dope.
[02:09:30] Yeah, I thought you were going to bring me nine of them.
[02:09:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:09:33] But you didn't.
[02:09:34] I didn't do that.
[02:09:34] That's a bummer.
[02:09:35] Jocobottoor has a store.
[02:09:36] But Jocobottoor has no hats.
[02:09:38] Yeah.
[02:09:39] There is a...
[02:09:40] You know what?
[02:09:41] There's this other kind of hat.
[02:09:42] I think it's called like an operator hat.
[02:09:44] It's like a real simple.
[02:09:46] Anyway.
[02:09:47] But, you know, doing that one too.
[02:09:49] Interesting.
[02:09:50] In the event of you not being as into the trucker hat is maybe something else.
[02:09:54] We'll see.
[02:09:55] Flex hit as well.
[02:09:57] That's my thing.
[02:09:58] It's flex fit cool.
[02:09:59] Is that good?
[02:10:00] Yeah.
[02:10:01] Flex fit has purpose.
[02:10:02] I just have never seen a trucker's hat flex fit.
[02:10:04] Yeah.
[02:10:05] And I doubt I'm going to see one now.
[02:10:06] No, man.
[02:10:07] It's the new stuff.
[02:10:08] Apparently.
[02:10:09] But yeah, some of the stuff on there.
[02:10:10] I'm sure it's on there.
[02:10:11] Cool stuff.
[02:10:12] Jocobottoor has a shirt that he designed, which is cool layers, if you will.
[02:10:15] Yeah.
[02:10:16] Just cool.
[02:10:17] I like the way you promote the shirt that has your picture on it.
[02:10:19] You're proud of that.
[02:10:20] You know, I'm not actually because I didn't wear that one.
[02:10:22] No, I didn't want.
[02:10:23] I didn't want my picture on there.
[02:10:24] Yeah.
[02:10:25] Actually, that's true.
[02:10:26] I got to give you that echo did not want to have an echo shirt.
[02:10:28] Because it doesn't.
[02:10:29] I did it.
[02:10:30] I did it.
[02:10:31] Yeah.
[02:10:32] VToded.
[02:10:33] This is called Jocobottoor.
[02:10:35] I got some pool.
[02:10:37] Yeah.
[02:10:38] Jocobottoor.
[02:10:39] And I'm not saying to buy this shirt.
[02:10:40] I'm not saying to buy hat.
[02:10:41] I'm saying go on the store.
[02:10:43] Jocobottoor.com again.
[02:10:44] If you like something, get something.
[02:10:48] Good support.
[02:10:50] Also psychological warfare.
[02:10:53] If you don't know what that is.
[02:10:55] It's an album with tracks, jocotracks.
[02:10:58] And these tracks help you get through moments of weakness in your campaign against weakness.
[02:11:05] Everyone's in a while.
[02:11:06] When you wage these hard campaigns against weakness against your, you know, waking up early,
[02:11:13] sticking to the diet, work out all this stuff.
[02:11:16] Sometimes you get moments of fatigue.
[02:11:19] Sometimes even the strongest have their moments of fatigue.
[02:11:23] That's affirmative.
[02:11:24] So this psychological warfare.
[02:11:26] These tracks, they're like little spots for those moments of fatigue get you through it.
[02:11:30] No problem psychologically.
[02:11:32] Then you act.
[02:11:33] Boom.
[02:11:34] So yeah, that's a good one.
[02:11:35] So if you're waking up early, like I said, you're waking up early.
[02:11:37] You feel like even the snooze.
[02:11:39] Listen to psychological warfare.
[02:11:40] One of those tracks on there.
[02:11:41] I think it's called get up and get after it.
[02:11:44] You will not hit the snooze.
[02:11:45] Good one.
[02:11:46] Yep.
[02:11:47] That's it.
[02:11:48] Psychological warfare, jocot willink anywhere iTunes,
[02:11:51] where else Amazon music.
[02:11:53] All these place where they sell on P3s.
[02:11:55] It's good.
[02:11:56] You can get them there.
[02:11:57] Yep.
[02:11:58] This book that we covered today.
[02:12:01] Buy Mike Forten by Tommy Norris and by Dick Couch.
[02:12:05] You can get you got to get this book.
[02:12:07] It's a great book.
[02:12:08] It's a great read.
[02:12:09] And that's a good place to start.
[02:12:12] So much more detail than I went over today.
[02:12:14] Yeah.
[02:12:15] Boy, we just as I was walking out Mike and his wife.
[02:12:17] And I was telling her that I was explaining to him that it's like the debrief.
[02:12:21] I wanted since I was an E4 in the Navy that wanted to know what happened.
[02:12:26] One of the details.
[02:12:28] Well, now we got them.
[02:12:29] And those some crazy details, by the way.
[02:12:31] Yeah.
[02:12:32] Yeah.
[02:12:33] It's crazy.
[02:12:34] He's he's he's he's talking about how.
[02:12:37] Yeah.
[02:12:39] You know, my friend gets his like forehead blown off or whatever.
[02:12:42] You can see his brain all this stuff.
[02:12:45] Even in a movie that that'd be pretty graphic.
[02:12:47] Even in a movie that'd be unbelievable.
[02:12:49] Yeah.
[02:12:50] Like he back all.
[02:12:51] That movie wasn't really realistic because the guy out of his head blown off.
[02:12:54] And then he lived.
[02:12:55] But that was a crazy part though, right?
[02:12:56] On that movie.
[02:12:57] Yeah.
[02:12:58] You know, but yeah, well, it really happened.
[02:12:59] Oh, so he's, you know, he has him.
[02:13:00] He's all the guy he shot by the way.
[02:13:02] And his like, and he's going, you know, through the ocean all this stuff.
[02:13:05] And then he's going to be like, I can't even trap him on his back from.
[02:13:08] Yeah.
[02:13:10] Yeah.
[02:13:11] That he threw back five times.
[02:13:13] Yeah.
[02:13:13] No.
[02:13:14] It's so crazy.
[02:13:15] Yeah.
[02:13:16] And then we're sitting here and he's sitting right there.
[02:13:18] That's the guy who really did that, you know, he's not.
[02:13:21] I mean, resuff course acting is cool and don't furl, but that's not an act.
[02:13:22] That's the guy who really did it.
[02:13:24] Heavy, but that's heavy.
[02:13:26] Yeah.
[02:13:27] It's crazy.
[02:13:29] So get the book read about it, read the rest of the details that we barely even scratch
[02:13:34] on.
[02:13:35] Also, some other books you can get.
[02:13:37] You can book all the extreme ownership.
[02:13:39] It's about leadership.
[02:13:40] Yeah.
[02:13:42] It teaches you how to lead.
[02:13:44] Sure.
[02:13:45] It's a book that I wish I had when I was a young leader.
[02:13:48] But I didn't have it.
[02:13:50] I wasn't old enough to have written it and given it back to myself yet.
[02:13:53] Yeah.
[02:13:54] It doesn't work like that.
[02:13:56] Also, what's speaking of being young, you can another book called The Way of the War
[02:13:59] Your Kid, which is awesome because kids all over the place.
[02:14:03] Like parents now when I'm speaking somewhere, they bring their kids.
[02:14:07] Yeah.
[02:14:08] So I get to meet these kids.
[02:14:09] Kids that are getting their after it, which is pretty awesome.
[02:14:13] So way the warrior kid, so many kids are like doing pull ups now.
[02:14:18] Yeah.
[02:14:19] So I was just going to say my daughter would be like,
[02:14:21] bothering me dead that I want to do pull ups.
[02:14:25] She doesn't want to go.
[02:14:27] She'll get that from reading Cinderella.
[02:14:30] Cinderella did not make her want to do that, right?
[02:14:32] I did tell her the story since the last night coincidentally.
[02:14:36] She wouldn't want to do it any pull ups about it though.
[02:14:38] No, I didn't come tell her to go do anything.
[02:14:40] Did it come tell her to study hard?
[02:14:44] No, she just said it was beautiful.
[02:14:46] Okay.
[02:14:47] So it compelled some thoughts of beauty.
[02:14:49] Yeah.
[02:14:50] But it didn't come tell any change of direction in life.
[02:14:53] No, action taken.
[02:14:54] I'm going with way the warrior kid.
[02:14:56] Yeah, I meet you.
[02:14:57] Also, this money goes for you freedom field manual.
[02:15:01] It's coming out.
[02:15:04] That could compel you to get after it.
[02:15:07] Yeah.
[02:15:08] It could.
[02:15:09] I'd check it out.
[02:15:10] There's no books like it.
[02:15:11] Yeah.
[02:15:12] And it's like, it's a manual.
[02:15:14] That's a manual.
[02:15:15] It's a manual.
[02:15:16] Yeah.
[02:15:16] You know how like when you listen, you're like, okay,
[02:15:18] you know, you kind of get a feel, but there's nothing in your heart
[02:15:22] of it.
[02:15:22] There's nothing I had about the manual.
[02:15:23] It tells you what to do.
[02:15:25] Yeah.
[02:15:25] And it also talks about some thoughts.
[02:15:27] Better in my head.
[02:15:29] So it is interesting.
[02:15:32] You can get it.
[02:15:34] I appreciate it.
[02:15:36] Also, origin main.
[02:15:38] You already covered that, which is good.
[02:15:40] Mm.
[02:15:41] That is now us, by the way.
[02:15:43] We're partnered.
[02:15:44] So when you start your jitsu journey or if you're on your jitsu journey,
[02:15:49] check it out.
[02:15:50] Coming get it.
[02:15:51] If you're on the path of getting after it,
[02:15:54] do it with us at origin.
[02:15:57] And also, if you want to partner with us from a leadership perspective
[02:16:02] in your business, our business,
[02:16:04] echelon front leadership consulting,
[02:16:07] that's what we do.
[02:16:09] Me, Lave Babin, J.P.
[02:16:11] to know Dave Burke, info at echelonfront.com.
[02:16:15] Don't Google and look for Jocco speaking,
[02:16:20] because that's going to give you a speakers agent.
[02:16:23] That's going to charge you more money.
[02:16:25] Is there something going to be like a bureau or a speaker's bureau speakers agent?
[02:16:29] That's okay.
[02:16:30] And they're trying to provide a service.
[02:16:32] They're trying to get, they're trying to connect speakers with people that need speakers.
[02:16:38] But we don't need anyone to connect us with people that need speakers.
[02:16:41] You can go straight to echelonfront.com.
[02:16:44] So that's that.
[02:16:46] Also, the master September 14th and 15th in San Diego.
[02:16:51] Just to clarify, the first three monsters were based on the same
[02:16:54] material, because we did it on the west, on the east,
[02:16:58] and then in the center of the country.
[02:17:01] Just to clarify, now that this monster,
[02:17:04] Master 4, is a new material.
[02:17:07] So it's different.
[02:17:09] New approaches, new stories.
[02:17:12] It's not sold out yet, but it will be.
[02:17:15] So if you want to come, register now,
[02:17:17] extremalorship.com.
[02:17:19] And while you're waiting for the monster,
[02:17:23] if you have a question for us,
[02:17:28] you can ask that question on the interwebs.
[02:17:33] Where there, on the Twitter, the Instagram,
[02:17:38] and that's Facebook.
[02:17:41] Echo is at echelonfronts, and I am at Jockel-Willink,
[02:17:46] also Snapchat.
[02:17:48] Are you on there?
[02:17:49] I am on there, and I posted a snap.
[02:17:52] So far, one snap.
[02:17:54] And it disappears after 24 hours.
[02:17:56] Yes, so you can't go.
[02:17:57] And I'm still working to figure out,
[02:17:59] like, how I'm supposed to utilize this thing.
[02:18:01] Yeah.
[02:18:02] So we'll continue working on that one.
[02:18:04] Yeah.
[02:18:05] And that's it.
[02:18:09] That's how you can get in touch with us.
[02:18:12] And finally,
[02:18:15] I'm going to ask you,
[02:18:24] if you want to go on,
[02:18:27] you can't go on anymore.
[02:18:30] Think about Mike Thorden.
[02:18:33] And remember,
[02:18:35] that you are capable of so much more
[02:18:44] than you've never given up and keep getting after it.
[02:18:53] So, until next time,
[02:18:55] this is Echo and Jockel.
[02:18:59] Out.