Jocko Podcast 78 w/ Echo Charles: "A Man's Search For Meaning" Viktor Frankl

2017-06-08T07:58:00Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:18:47 - "A Man's Search For Meaning", by Viktor Frankl 0:42:12 - The Sociology and Psychology of the Camp. 1:02:28 - An Attitude. Being Worthy of Your Sufferings. 1:34:59 - Adversity Reveals Human Nature. 1:42:32 - To Sum Up. Takeaways and Lessons Learned. 2:07:09 - Support, Cool Onnit, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster 003. 2:33:39 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

But yeah, you know, I, I, I, I talked to people about again, it's I'm not going to compare anything to what we're talking about here, but in the military, for instance, a lot of times I had to make decisions to, to, to, you know, I got to do something that maybe I didn't fully agree with, but I knew in the long run, it was going to get me something that it was going to be beneficial to my team or to my platoon or whatever. You know, it's like in the, when I was talking to veterans saying, look, people, you feel like people don't understand? So, you know, young and then you came out here, you know, he just come left his apartment in New York City where he's got his wife and kids and they're, you know, it's chaos and little kids and they're crying and screaming and spilling stuff and throwing up milk and pissing everywhere So you know, you have that saying it's not like just some guy floating down the road through life being like, I don't feel good about that right there. Well, thankfully you're, you know, a little bit smart in a way where, you know, whether you name these things or not, there's always a particular standard that you go by, you know. And I had just a couple of people hit me up on social media like, you know, you should you should read this or you should do this or and, and, you know, or you're not right. So you, you know, it's not going to be just that you're not going to naturally just be an individual and act like an individual and conduct yourself in all these extreme situations as an individual. I'm going to step up and what you're risking there is we don't know where this war is going to end and where you're going to be at the end of this thing. Not means like nothing and it's almost like they seem, it seems like it seems like it's totally my interpretation of it. You know, like, your situation, like, in a combat situation, I think BTF Tony was talking about this. So the good part, like if you said, like I said, if you keep that good attitude, and when you make it out, you will have the other good things that can come from it. Jordan Peterson has some good good, you know, good content on that where he's basically in that cell, he says, get yourself together where in his example, one of the many was, you know, a family member dies or whatever, get yourself together. And, you know, again, it's, you know what I'm feeling like right now? So in a lot of times with like, real bad situations, especially with kids, because that's like the the most weak you can ever feel really like your kid. You know, you know, you always hear not always, but you hear sometimes about these riots on college campuses, whether it be after a game or something like that. You know, primal bells, which is like all that, you know, primates and stuff. If you want to know what that good part is, you got to know what that darkness is to. You know, so basically what it's for is, you know, it's not like poetry. And Jill Rogan, you know, Everlast was saying, hey, you know, I'm not in good shape right now. So as in, you know, you know, how like writing a bike. And by the way, maybe the, maybe the the best person in that group is going to say, you know what, I'm going to do this You remember when you jump rope and then when the, you know how like, and this was like elementary school. It's like, okay, well, then what I'm next to you know, we're talking about war and or if you call it the war podcast, but you're talking about business or if you don't talk about the leadership podcast, but you're talking about Jiu-Jitsu. You know, like if you let something beat you down and you don't get this strength, like that's a loss. There's gray areas like when Captain Plum was saying, hey, he got told an order, you know, make communications with this guy at all costs. You know, the opposite of that was Dick Winners was talking about how he had, and I don't know if I talked about it on the podcast, but in the book conversations with Dick Winners, you go through a big section where he talks about some of the guys and his company. Like if this bit like you dry it, you know, but it's that. I mean, maybe like your wife was at awkward when I got in the civilian sector and people would be like, when's your birthday? You know, good voice, you just have to think, you know, we don't do voices. And I was like, I was like, oh, just like stuff. And if people are looking for you, they see you talk about XYZ or like, you know, I sure I can look up. Because it's not like I'm going to say, okay, well, you know, he's clearly with insurgents. And the guys in the middle, all the gray guys, I know them when I see them, but a lot of times I know 100%. And if you think about somebody that's cowardly in combat, that says, oh, you know, what, you know, echo you go first. I mean, they might be, you know, intellectual or, you know, they might be able to think about it. Like these, these people that they're going to kind of succumb to these positions or do all these low things to survive, so they can survive and you don't live on and all this stuff. So it's like if you went through the whole game, screwing people over, the jury's going to get you kind of thing. Like, well, you look at me like I was going to give you a smile.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 78 with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:07] Good evening, echo.
[00:00:09] Good evening.
[00:00:12] Nightmare.
[00:00:16] Now that's a word that I use often times to describe the most horrible things and the most
[00:00:24] wretched things and in my hierarchy of adjectives, nightmare is right alongside of hell.
[00:00:38] And I'm not sure which one is worse in my mind.
[00:00:41] That's why I say they're right alongside each other because hell is beyond the worst thing
[00:00:47] your mind can imagine.
[00:00:49] And that's basically what a nightmare is when you're asleep and your mind delves into
[00:00:58] the most horrific things beyond what you can consciously and willfully imagine in your
[00:01:05] own head.
[00:01:09] That's what a nightmare is.
[00:01:10] Now what if there was a place that was worse than a
[00:01:19] nightmare?
[00:01:22] And it was a real place.
[00:01:26] Who could create such a place?
[00:01:36] And the answer to that is we can.
[00:01:44] I shall never forget how I was roused one night by the groans of a fellow prisoner who
[00:01:50] threw himself about and asleep obviously having a horrible nightmare.
[00:01:57] Since I had always been especially sorry for people who suffer from fearful dreams or
[00:02:01] deliria, I wanted to wake the poor man.
[00:02:06] Suddenly I drew back the hand which was ready to shake him frightened at the thing I was
[00:02:10] about to do.
[00:02:13] At that moment I became intensely conscious of the fact that no dream no matter how horrible
[00:02:21] could be as bad as the reality of the camp which surrounded us and to which I was about
[00:02:29] to recall him.
[00:02:34] And that's a quote from the book, Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Franco which will
[00:02:41] be appearing in two today.
[00:02:45] And it's a book about the Nazi concentration camps which are really as he pointed out
[00:02:55] there worse than any nightmare we can imagine.
[00:03:02] Here's a Holocaust survivor.
[00:03:05] He won't be Weinstein on the death and the atrocities in Treblinka.
[00:03:15] By now the transports were coming every day.
[00:03:18] One was much like the next, the same incidents recurred again and again.
[00:03:23] Once as I swept out the interior of a car, an SS man suddenly struck me with his weapon
[00:03:28] ordered me to help a woman who was unable to stand and climb out of the car.
[00:03:34] The idea was to show his victims how well the ill would be treated.
[00:03:40] Then he ordered one of the workers to take the woman to the field, the field hospital
[00:03:46] for care.
[00:03:49] The newcomers really believed that the alien woman would be taken to an infermary.
[00:03:55] None of them realized that the field hospital was in fact just a giant pit about 30 yards
[00:04:01] in diameter which was always a blaze.
[00:04:06] They would place those who were sick or disabled on the ground at the edge of the pit facing
[00:04:12] in.
[00:04:13] The SS man in charge circulated among them and shot them in the back of the neck.
[00:04:19] Then the workers cast them into the pit.
[00:04:22] Some of the victims were still breathing when they were tossed in with the other bodies.
[00:04:28] The pit was separated from the spacious field by a barrier of fresh pine branches which
[00:04:34] were replaced from time to time to conceal the infirmary from the newcomers until the last
[00:04:40] moment.
[00:04:42] 20 minutes after I helped the woman climb out of the railroad car, I was told that some
[00:04:47] infants were sitting by the pit and no one else was there because the SS soldier had taken
[00:04:53] his lunch break.
[00:04:55] I gathered some trash and went over there.
[00:04:58] I saw the woman who I had removed from the car, still breathing, sitting at the edge
[00:05:02] of the pit and staring in fright into the burning inferno and its contents.
[00:05:08] The half-cremated bodies of old people and children mixed with smoldering trash.
[00:05:16] She tried to stand up but her legs would not hold her.
[00:05:21] She looked at the workers who stirred the embers remnants of human beings so they would burn
[00:05:27] better.
[00:05:31] Nearby we were about a dozen infants.
[00:05:34] Too young to have learned how to walk, they were not crying.
[00:05:38] They certainly did not understand what was happening.
[00:05:42] They looked about almost certainly in hopes of finding their mother or father.
[00:05:49] Later I heard that right after he returned from his lunch break, the SS man shot them all
[00:05:53] and ordered the workers to throw the tiny bodies into the flames.
[00:05:59] Of all my memories of that accursed place, the vision of these babies is undoubtedly the worst.
[00:06:08] I see their faces whenever I remember Trimblinka.
[00:06:13] As I write these lines more than 50 years after that day, I still cannot overcome the horror.
[00:06:28] In another report, here Martin's Spet of Tarnow, Poland, describes the massacre of Tarnow
[00:06:36] Jews in an interview.
[00:06:40] We heard the columns of Jews under German escort at night.
[00:06:44] It was going constantly.
[00:06:46] They were passing our house because this was already on the outskirts of the city, the
[00:06:51] cemetery and they were marching them to the woods behind the city.
[00:06:56] As we found out later, they were all shot over there.
[00:07:01] During the day I looked out through the shingles.
[00:07:03] My father said I shouldn't look but anyway, I was a kid, I was curious.
[00:07:09] The roof was overlooking the cemetery and wagons with bodies dead bodies were coming in.
[00:07:16] Groups, they were bringing in groups of Jewish people that had to dig trenches.
[00:07:22] They had to dig ditches and the bodies dumped in.
[00:07:26] After those Jews that dug the ditches, they were shot also and pushed in by another
[00:07:33] group that came in after them into those ditches and lime was poured over the bodies.
[00:07:39] The next group covered up those ditches and dug other ditches.
[00:07:48] They brought in pregnant women and they didn't use any bullets.
[00:07:59] They used bayonets.
[00:08:04] The screams of the mothers that their children, they tore their children out of their arms
[00:08:16] and the screams of the children, I still hear.
[00:08:27] The Solomon Redaski, who is the only survivor from the 78 people in his family.
[00:08:40] Described the concentration camp, they throw the people in the crematoriums that children.
[00:08:49] I will never forget alive.
[00:08:54] They throw them in the crematoriums.
[00:09:00] They grabbed by an arm, by a leg, by the head and throw them into the ovens.
[00:09:05] There it was so tragic.
[00:09:07] The cries and people, when crying there, you know it was so terrible.
[00:09:15] I can feel it now.
[00:09:16] I can even see the people.
[00:09:21] The other people were crying, the children were hollering, Mama Daddy helped me.
[00:09:28] Mama Daddy helped me.
[00:09:35] It was terrible.
[00:09:46] One more report, not Trublinka, from Henry Gold.
[00:09:53] The worst thing that happens to a person in that instance, he loses self-respect, and
[00:10:00] that's exactly what happened to the majority of the people.
[00:10:04] Some of them even lost their minds.
[00:10:06] They couldn't take it.
[00:10:08] They couldn't take the hunger.
[00:10:09] They couldn't take the beatings.
[00:10:10] They couldn't take the cold, no clothing, and the uncertainty.
[00:10:15] And the uncertainty, I think that was the worst thing that could happen to a person.
[00:10:19] You didn't know from one moment to the next what was going to happen.
[00:10:24] Life was very cheap.
[00:10:25] A person was alive one minute.
[00:10:27] The next minute he was shot, killed, beaten up, beaten to death, torn apart by dogs, and so
[00:10:34] on.
[00:10:37] Life was very, very cheap, and that's the way the Germans liked it.
[00:10:43] That particular camp was governed by the Jewish police and so on.
[00:10:48] The Germans did not stay in the camp.
[00:10:50] They were on the outside.
[00:10:54] But the life inside of the camp was just as bad without the Germans being right there
[00:10:59] than if they would be.
[00:11:03] The Jewish police was, I don't know.
[00:11:08] You take a person in that situation, and you give them a little power, and he becomes
[00:11:12] the same as the oppressor himself.
[00:11:17] There were some policemen that were not bad, but there were a lot of them that were ruthless.
[00:11:24] There were others that would beat people, and do all kinds of things that would degrade
[00:11:28] them and so on, especially women.
[00:11:32] They cut their hair off, and they looked like men.
[00:11:35] They looked like scarecrows, and they would get beaten up by the Jewish police just as bad
[00:11:40] as the man for no reason at all.
[00:11:45] If they wanted a little more soup, where they were distributing soup, and there was some
[00:11:50] left, and they were going to give everybody a little bit, and the Jewish police with their
[00:11:55] sticks and rubber hoses would beat them half-centeless.
[00:12:03] That's what happens when the conditions are the way they were then.
[00:12:07] When a person becomes an animal, and loses self-respect, that is willing to get a beating,
[00:12:13] and get beaten half-centeless just to get a little bit of soup.
[00:12:21] Either you died, or if you didn't die, the Germans would come and take you away.
[00:12:29] The filth was just terrible in the camp.
[00:12:32] In the barracks you had caught.
[00:12:33] I mean, bonks were everybody slept on straw, there were no covers, was no pillows, nothing.
[00:12:40] You slept in your clothes and the winners, and the winner because you're afraid to get
[00:12:43] cold.
[00:12:45] The only heating was a pop belly stove in the middle of the barrack.
[00:12:49] When somebody stole some wood in the factory or something, then we had a fire otherwise
[00:12:53] it was freezing.
[00:12:57] They only warmth they had if you huddled together and they kept warm that way, but nobody
[00:13:04] would get undressed.
[00:13:06] The lights were eating you up alive.
[00:13:10] Once a month you were allowed to take a shower, and we had to walk to camp a to go to the
[00:13:14] showers, and that means a 10-mile walk.
[00:13:19] 10 miles there and 10 miles back.
[00:13:23] There were a lot of people were too weak to walk, and those people hardly ever took a shower.
[00:13:30] There was no hot water in the washer, there was only cold, and in the winter you were
[00:13:34] afraid to wash up because there was nothing to wipe yourself with, therefore you would
[00:13:39] walk out in the cold, winter, and freeze to death.
[00:13:50] And we gold, brothers and both of his parents were all killed in the gas chambers.
[00:14:02] And from the Boocan walled report, which was translated and edited with an introduction
[00:14:09] by David A. Hackett, I will now describe the crematoriums and the transports.
[00:14:16] With the station 2,000 people got off the trains.
[00:14:20] They had to throw away all their luggage.
[00:14:23] Afterwards, the men and women were divided into two groups, at which the larger boys were
[00:14:27] assigned to the group with the men.
[00:14:32] Then that great devour of Jews, Mengala drove by and a car seeking out the strongest
[00:14:37] from each transport.
[00:14:40] They numbered around 30 out of 2,000.
[00:14:43] The remainder were led away by SS Technical Sergeant Moll, the officer of the crematorium.
[00:14:52] The elderly were loaded onto dump trucks and then dumped into burning trenches while
[00:14:56] still alive.
[00:14:59] The remainder were led to the gas chambers.
[00:15:03] Meanwhile new transports were arriving.
[00:15:07] In front of the gas chamber was a dressing room.
[00:15:11] Its walls were written in all languages, put shoes into the cubby holes and tie them together
[00:15:16] so you will not lose them.
[00:15:19] After the showers, you will receive hot coffee.
[00:15:24] Here poor victims undress themselves and went into the chamber.
[00:15:30] There were three columns for the ventilators through which the gas poured in.
[00:15:36] Special worked detail with trungeons drove the people into the chamber.
[00:15:41] When the room was full, small children were thrown in through a window.
[00:15:47] Sergeant Moll grabbed, infants by their legs and smashed their skulls against the wall.
[00:15:54] Then the gas was led into the chamber.
[00:15:58] The lungs of the victim slowly burst and after three minutes allowed clamoring could
[00:16:02] be heard.
[00:16:05] And the chamber was open and those who still showed signs of life were beaten to death.
[00:16:17] The prisoners of the special work details then pulled corpses out took their rings off
[00:16:23] and cut their hair which was gathered up, put in sacks and shipped to factories.
[00:16:29] Then they arranged the corpses in piles of ten each.
[00:16:34] After Sergeant Moll had counted them, they were taken to the ovens or if the crematoriums,
[00:16:39] crematoriums were insufficient thrown into fire trenches.
[00:16:45] Once it happened that a victim crawled out of a burning trench, he was beaten to death with
[00:16:49] trungeons.
[00:16:54] While Sergeant Moll put a naked woman in the trench and shot her in the genitals, another
[00:17:01] time Moll found a ring on a member of the special work detail.
[00:17:05] He ordered, nap, nap the poured over him and had it lighted.
[00:17:12] He hanged a man by his hands and shot him until his arms were torn through.
[00:17:18] Then he hanged him up by the feet and repeated the process.
[00:17:25] While Sergeant Moll took a family of six, first he shot the youngest in the presence
[00:17:31] of the rest, then he shot the older ones and finally their father and mother.
[00:17:45] That's the testimony of John DeWise, who was 15 years old at Burknow.
[00:18:03] So I think it's safe to say that this is a situation that has definitely worse than a nightmare.
[00:18:15] And what possibly can we take away from that?
[00:18:24] I think the best thing we can do is try and learn.
[00:18:35] And I think one of the best places to learn and take lessons away from the Holocaust is from
[00:18:42] the book that I started out with today called Man Search for Meaning by Victor Franco.
[00:18:53] Let's go to the book.
[00:19:02] Let us take the case of a transport, which was officially announced to transfer a certain
[00:19:07] number of prisoners to another camp.
[00:19:09] But it was fairly safe to guess that its final destination would be the gas chambers.
[00:19:15] A selection of sick or feeble prisoners incapable of work would be sent to one of the big
[00:19:20] central camps which were fitted with gas chambers and crematoriums.
[00:19:26] The selection process was the signal for a free fight among all the prisoners, or of group
[00:19:34] against group.
[00:19:36] All that matter was that one's own name and that of one's friends were crossed off the
[00:19:42] list of victims, though everyone knew that for each man saved another victim had to be
[00:19:48] found.
[00:19:51] A definite number of prisoners had to go with each transport.
[00:19:56] It did not really matter which since each of them was nothing but a number.
[00:20:02] On their admission to the camp, all their documents had been taken from them, together
[00:20:08] with other possessions.
[00:20:10] Each prisoner therefore had an opportunity to claim a fictitious name or profession
[00:20:14] and for various reasons many did this.
[00:20:18] The authorities were interested only in the captive's numbers.
[00:20:23] These numbers were often tattooed on their skin and also had to be sewn to a certain
[00:20:27] spot on their trousers jacket or coat.
[00:20:31] He guard who wanted to make a charge against a prisoner just a glance that is number.
[00:20:37] And how we dreaded those glances.
[00:20:39] He never asked for his name.
[00:20:43] To return to the convoy about to depart, there was neither time nor desire to consider
[00:20:47] moral or ethical issues.
[00:20:50] Every man was controlled by one fought only to keep himself alive for the family waiting
[00:20:55] for him at home and to save his friends.
[00:20:59] If no hesitation therefore he would arrange for another prisoner another number to take
[00:21:05] his place in the transport.
[00:21:11] As I have already mentioned, the process of selecting capos was a negative one.
[00:21:16] Only the most brutal of the prisoners were chosen for this job.
[00:21:22] So capos were prisoners, Jewish prisoners that got selected to help run the prison camp.
[00:21:33] And capo, I tried to find the etymology of where that came from and the best or the closest
[00:21:40] or the thing that made the most sense to me from what I read was, was they had two words
[00:21:46] combined together.
[00:21:48] Tom Rad Police and the German those got shortened to capo.
[00:21:57] So some of these and you already heard one of those earlier testimonies talking about
[00:22:02] the Jewish police inside the prisons and how they were just as bad as in many cases
[00:22:09] as the Germans themselves.
[00:22:13] Back to the book.
[00:22:14] But apart from the selection of capos which was undertaken by the SS there was a sort
[00:22:18] of self-selecting process going on the whole time among all the prisoners.
[00:22:26] On the average, only those prisoners could keep alive who.
[00:22:30] After years of trekking from camp to camp had lost all scruples in their fight for
[00:22:36] existence.
[00:22:37] They were prepared to use every means, honest and otherwise even brutal force, theft and
[00:22:43] betrayal of friends in order to save themselves.
[00:22:49] We have come back by the aid of many lucky chances or miracles, whatever one may choose
[00:22:57] to call them.
[00:22:58] We know the best of us did not return.
[00:23:10] So there is a dynamic that you don't think of immediately when you think of the concentration
[00:23:14] camps.
[00:23:15] Number one, you don't think about the capos, the Jewish police that are forced into this
[00:23:20] situation.
[00:23:21] And then the other thing you don't think about is this the fact that the people that
[00:23:25] we're going to survive were basically making a very broad say.
[00:23:31] But from what Victor Frankl saying here, it was the people that were willing just to do
[00:23:35] anything to survive, including betraying their friends.
[00:23:38] And he's saying straight up, we know the best of us did not return.
[00:23:43] And that is something that you don't think about.
[00:23:52] And we probably don't think about it because we don't want to think about it.
[00:23:55] Because when you start thinking about what would you do to survive?
[00:24:00] What would you do to survive?
[00:24:02] What would I do to survive?
[00:24:06] That's a question. I don't think a lot of people want to know the answer to.
[00:24:11] And it's very easy to go through life and never have to answer that question.
[00:24:16] Just talking a little bit now about what life was like in the camp.
[00:24:27] Back to the book.
[00:24:28] Somewhere it is said that man cannot exist without sleep for more than a stated number
[00:24:31] of hours.
[00:24:32] Quite wrong.
[00:24:34] I had been convinced that there were certain things I just could not do.
[00:24:38] I could not sleep without this or I could not live without that or the other.
[00:24:44] The first night in Auschwitz, we slept in beds which were constructed in tears.
[00:24:50] On each tier, measuring about six and one half to eight feet slept nine men.
[00:24:56] Directly on the boards.
[00:24:58] Two blankets would be shared by each nine men.
[00:25:03] We could of course lie only on our sides, crowded and huddled against each other,
[00:25:09] which had some advantages because of the bitter cold.
[00:25:13] Though it was forbidden to take shoes up to the bunks, some people did use them secretly
[00:25:18] as pillows, and spite of the fact that they were caked with mud.
[00:25:22] Otherwise, one's head had to rest on the crook of an almost dislocated arm.
[00:25:29] And yet sleep came and brought oblivion and relief from the pain for a few hours.
[00:25:39] The thaw to suicide was entertained by nearly everyone, if only for a brief time.
[00:25:45] It was born of hopelessness of the situation, the constant danger of death looming over us
[00:25:51] daily and hourly, and the closeness of deaths suffered by many of the others.
[00:25:58] In personal convictions, which we mentioned later, I made a firm promise on my first evening
[00:26:03] in the camp that I would not run to the wire.
[00:26:07] This was a phrase used in camp to describe the most popular method of suicide, touching
[00:26:12] the electrical, electrically charged barbed wire fence.
[00:26:15] It was not entirely difficult for me to make this decision.
[00:26:20] There was little point committing suicide since, for the average inmate, life expectation
[00:26:25] calculating objectively and counting all likely chances was very poor.
[00:26:32] You could not without any assurance, you could not with any assurance expect to be among
[00:26:35] the small percentage of men who survived all the selections.
[00:26:40] The prisoner of Auschwitz, in the first phase of shock, did not fear death.
[00:26:45] Even the gas chambers lost their horrors for him after the first few days after all.
[00:26:52] They spared him the act of committing suicide.
[00:27:02] Victor Frankle was a psychiatrist going into this situation.
[00:27:11] That's the view, that's the perspective that he takes throughout this.
[00:27:17] He's now been in for a couple days in Auschwitz and another guy comes into talk to him,
[00:27:27] who's another colleague of his.
[00:27:30] And we're going back to the book, a colleague of mine who had arrived in Auschwitz several
[00:27:33] weeks previously smuggled himself into our hut.
[00:27:36] He wanted a common comfort us and tell us a few things.
[00:27:40] He had become so thin that at first we did not recognize him.
[00:27:44] With a show of good humor and a devil-made care attitude he gave us a few hurried tips.
[00:27:49] Don't be afraid, don't fear the selections.
[00:27:52] Dr. M, the SS medical chief, has a soft spot for doctors.
[00:27:58] But one thing I beg of you, he continued, shave daily if at all possible even if you have
[00:28:04] to use a piece of glass to do it.
[00:28:06] Even if you have to give your last piece of bread for it.
[00:28:11] You will look younger and the scraping will make your cheeks look rudier.
[00:28:16] If you want to stay alive, there is only one way.
[00:28:19] Look fit for work.
[00:28:21] If you even limp because let us say you have a small blister on your heel and an SS man
[00:28:26] spots this, he will wave you aside and the next day you are sure to be gasped.
[00:28:40] Now his mind and his thoughts, he describes what he would think about.
[00:28:52] Back to the book, my mind still clung to the image of my wife.
[00:28:58] A thought crossed my mind, I didn't even know if she was still alive.
[00:29:03] I knew only one thing which I have learned well by now.
[00:29:08] Love goes very far beyond the physical person of the beloved.
[00:29:13] It finds its deepest meaning in his spiritual being, in his inner self.
[00:29:19] Whether or not he is actually present, whether or not he is still alive at all ceases
[00:29:23] somehow to be of importance.
[00:29:28] I did not know whether my wife was alive and had no means of finding out.
[00:29:35] Everything was happening all my present life, there was no outgoing or incoming male.
[00:29:40] But at that moment it ceased to matter.
[00:29:45] There was no need for me to know nothing could touch the strength of my love, my thoughts
[00:29:49] and the image of my beloved.
[00:29:53] Had I known then that my wife was dead, I think that I still would have given myself
[00:29:58] undisturbed by that knowledge to the contemplation of her image.
[00:30:02] That my mental conversation with her would have been just as vivid and just as satisfying.
[00:30:12] Set me like a seal upon my heart, love is as strong as death.
[00:30:28] And continuing on, Dr. Frankle talks about images from inside the camp.
[00:30:37] Standing outside we saw sinister clouds glowing in the west and the whole sky alive with
[00:30:41] clouds of ever-changing shapes and colors from steel blue to blood red.
[00:30:47] The desolate gray mud huts provided a sharp contrast while the puddles on the muddy ground
[00:30:53] reflected the glowing sky.
[00:30:57] And then after a few minutes of moving silence, one prisoner said to another, how beautiful
[00:31:02] the world could be.
[00:31:08] And beyond looking for beauty around them, they were able to find humor.
[00:31:18] And I have people ask me about this from time to time about humor and combat situations
[00:31:23] and isn't it important and yes it absolutely is, and you'd think in a concentration camp
[00:31:29] even humor would go away.
[00:31:35] But not true, back to the book to discover that there was any semblance of art in a concentration
[00:31:39] camp must be surprising enough for an outsider.
[00:31:42] But he may be even more astonished to hear that one could find a sense of humor.
[00:31:49] And if I'm not able to find a sense of humor there as well, of course only the faint trace
[00:31:53] of one.
[00:31:54] And then only for a few seconds or minutes, humor was another of the soul's weapons in the
[00:31:59] fight for self preservation.
[00:32:03] It is well known that humor, more than anything else in the human makeup, can afford an
[00:32:08] aloofness and an ability to rise above any situation if only for a few seconds.
[00:32:16] The attempt to develop a sense of humor and to see things in a humorous light is some kind
[00:32:21] of trick I learned while mastering the art of living.
[00:32:26] Yet it is impossible to practice the art of living even in a concentration camp although
[00:32:31] suffering is omnipresent.
[00:32:34] To draw an analogy, a man's suffering is similar to the behavior of gas.
[00:32:40] If a certain quantity of gas is pumped into an empty chamber, it will fill the chamber completely
[00:32:45] and evenly no matter how big the chamber.
[00:32:50] Thus, suffering completely fills the human soul and conscious mind no matter whether the
[00:32:55] suffering is great or little.
[00:32:59] Therefore the size of human suffering is absolutely relative.
[00:33:08] And I think the point that I took away from that was that chamber that can be filled up
[00:33:14] with suffering filled up with some humor as well.
[00:33:18] Otherwise that suffering will just fill the whole chamber, fill your whole brain.
[00:33:27] Back to the book, we were grateful for the smallest of mercies.
[00:33:30] We were glad when there was time to delouse before going to bed.
[00:33:35] Although in itself this was no pressure as it meant standing naked and unheated
[00:33:40] hut where icicles hung from the ceiling.
[00:33:44] But we were thankful if there was no air raid alarm during this operation in the lights
[00:33:49] were not switched off.
[00:33:52] We could not do the job properly.
[00:33:54] We were kept awake half the night.
[00:34:04] So you're at a point in life where you're grateful for being able to stand naked and pick
[00:34:10] the lights off of your friends before you go to bed so that the lights won't keep you awake
[00:34:15] at night by chewing at your body.
[00:34:23] And you know I talked about how or he talks about how it was the person that was going
[00:34:31] to survive had to be ruthless basically.
[00:34:36] And here he says, but is not for me to pass judgment on those prisoners who put their own
[00:34:40] people above everyone else.
[00:34:42] Who controls snowen in a man who favors his friends under circumstances when sooner
[00:34:46] later it is a question of life or death.
[00:34:50] No man should judge unless he asks himself in absolute honesty whether in a similar situation
[00:34:56] he might not have done the same.
[00:35:06] And here he says, I mentioned earlier how everything that was not connected with the immediate
[00:35:11] task of keeping oneself in one closest friends of lives lost its value.
[00:35:18] Everything was sacrificed to this end.
[00:35:22] The man's character became involved to the point that he was caught in mental turmoil which
[00:35:29] threatened all values he held and threw them into doubt.
[00:35:33] Under the influence of a world which no longer recognized the value of human life and human
[00:35:38] dignity which had robbed the man of his will and made him an object to be exterminated,
[00:35:44] having planned however to make full use of him first to the last ounce of his physical
[00:35:48] resources under this influence the personal ego finally suffered a loss of values.
[00:35:56] If the man in the concentration camp did not struggle against this in a last effort to
[00:36:01] save his self respect he lost the feeling of being an individual, a being with a mind
[00:36:10] with inner freedom and personal value.
[00:36:16] He thought of himself then as only part of an enormous mass of people his existence descended
[00:36:23] to the level of animal life.
[00:36:28] The men were herded sometimes to one place then to another sometimes driven together
[00:36:32] than a part like a flock of sheep without a thought or a will of their own.
[00:36:39] A small but dangerous pack watched them from all sides well versed in methods of torture
[00:36:45] and sadism.
[00:36:47] They drove the herd and sessingly backwards and forwards with shouts kicks and blows and
[00:36:54] we the sheep thought of two things only.
[00:37:00] How to evade the bad dogs and how to get a little food.
[00:37:15] He's going to delve into this deeper, this idea of this inner freedom and how hard you
[00:37:23] had to fight to maintain that and how easy it was just to roll in and become one of the
[00:37:30] pack one of the herd.
[00:37:36] Back to the book, it is very difficult for an outsider to grasp how very little value
[00:37:40] was placed on human life and camp.
[00:37:44] The camp inmate was hardened, possibly became more conscious of this complete disregard
[00:37:52] of human existence when a convoy of sick men was arranged.
[00:37:58] The initiated bodies of the sick were thrown on two wheeled carts which were drawn by prisoners
[00:38:04] for many miles, often through snowstorms to the next camp.
[00:38:09] If one of the sick men had died before the cart left, he was thrown on anyways.
[00:38:14] The list had to be correct, but the list was the only thing that mattered.
[00:38:21] A man counted only because he had a prison number.
[00:38:26] One literally became a number, dead or alive, that was unimportant.
[00:38:32] The life of a number was completely irrelevant.
[00:38:36] What stood behind that number and that life mattered even less.
[00:38:41] The fate, the history, the name of the man.
[00:38:57] The camp inmate was frightened of making decisions and of taking any sort of initiative
[00:39:03] whatsoever.
[00:39:06] This was the result of a strong feeling that fate was one's master and that one must
[00:39:11] not try to influence it in any way, but instead let it take its own course.
[00:39:19] In addition, there was a great apathy which contributed no small part to the feelings
[00:39:26] of the prisoner.
[00:39:28] At times, lightning decisions had to be made.
[00:39:34] Decisions with spelled life or death.
[00:39:37] The prisoner would have preferred to let fate make the choice for him.
[00:39:44] Some of the examples that he brings up in the book on that are, they'd get told, we need
[00:39:48] people to go to a different camp for rest.
[00:39:54] They had no idea.
[00:39:55] Sometimes it actually was.
[00:39:56] Sometimes it was some kind of actual medical facility.
[00:40:01] Sometimes it was just you're going to the gas chambers at another camp and they had no
[00:40:05] idea which one it was.
[00:40:07] They got into this mode of they were just going to externally just whatever was going
[00:40:12] to happen.
[00:40:13] They go beyond when they're trying to begin to get me off that list or I want to be on that
[00:40:20] list and they realize that they were messing with fate.
[00:40:24] They got into a mode of, I'm just going to let things happen and whatever happens happens.
[00:40:31] You get this feeling of apathy.
[00:40:36] You can just imagine how that, that having no control externally of what's happening, how
[00:40:42] that leads.
[00:40:43] Number one leads to this apathy of just I don't care what happens.
[00:40:48] But number two, how that can then sneak in and start to get control of your inner
[00:40:53] thoughts and your inner feelings where you just feel like you don't have control over
[00:40:56] anything in life and that's it.
[00:40:58] And here he talks about apathy some more.
[00:41:01] The prisoners apathy was also the result of other factors, hunger and lack of sleep contributed
[00:41:07] to it as they do in normal life also.
[00:41:13] And to the general irritability which was another characteristic of the prisoner's mental
[00:41:17] state.
[00:41:19] The lack of sleep was partly due to the pestering of vermin which infested the terribly
[00:41:23] overcrowded huts because of the general lack of hygiene and sanitation.
[00:41:29] The fact that we had neither nicotine nor caffeine also contributed to the state of apathy
[00:41:34] and irritability.
[00:41:37] Besides these physical causes, there were mental ones.
[00:41:41] In the form of certain complexes, the majority of prisoners suffered from a kind of inferiority
[00:41:46] complex.
[00:41:48] We all had once been or had fancied ourselves to be somebody.
[00:41:53] Now we were treated like complete non-entities.
[00:42:00] The consciousness of one's inner value is anchored in higher, more spiritual things.
[00:42:05] It cannot be shaken by camp life.
[00:42:08] But how many free men load alone prisoners possess it?
[00:42:14] Without consciously thinking about it, the average prisoner felt himself utterly degraded.
[00:42:21] This became obvious when one observed the contrasts offered by the singular sociological
[00:42:26] structure of the camp.
[00:42:28] The more prominent prisoners, the capos, the cooks, the storekeepers and the camp policemen
[00:42:34] did not as a rule field degraded at all.
[00:42:38] Like the majority of prisoners, but on the contrary, they felt promoted.
[00:42:44] They even developed miniature delusions of grandeur.
[00:42:52] Clearly we can all take a lesson out of that one.
[00:42:56] That is, you know, you get put into a promotion position or you've got authority over
[00:43:01] people.
[00:43:02] Don't let that go to your head.
[00:43:03] Yeah, I guess that's a natural thing where they did this experiment test in the university
[00:43:10] whatever.
[00:43:11] Just from random students, one played the prisoner, one group played the guards and that
[00:43:15] happened.
[00:43:16] You know, like an actor, it's just an experiment.
[00:43:19] It's not real life, you know, it's still happened.
[00:43:21] Yeah, and it happened in real life, which I think is even more insane.
[00:43:26] See, even more insane.
[00:43:28] Yeah, and away, huh.
[00:43:31] But then again, how can we sit here in judge when if you're in that situation and you need
[00:43:39] to survive and you need to do the best to get you to survive in your family survive?
[00:43:43] And you have an opportunity, oh, are we going to say nope?
[00:43:47] Nope.
[00:43:48] I'm going to instead of doing this where I maybe can do something good in the long run.
[00:43:52] Nope.
[00:43:53] I'm not going to go across my values.
[00:43:55] I'm going to die in three days and that's it.
[00:43:57] Yeah.
[00:43:58] That's a hard decision to make.
[00:44:00] Yeah, I mean, it seems easy when you're sitting in the comfort of your home.
[00:44:04] Like, I wouldn't do that or, you know, and this is what I would have done or I wouldn't
[00:44:09] have done.
[00:44:10] But yeah, you know, I, I, I, I talked to people about again, it's I'm not going to compare
[00:44:16] anything to what we're talking about here, but in the military, for instance, a lot of
[00:44:21] times I had to make decisions to, to, to, you know, I got to do something that maybe
[00:44:27] I didn't fully agree with, but I knew in the long run, it was going to get me something
[00:44:32] that it was going to be beneficial to my team or to my platoon or whatever.
[00:44:36] Yeah.
[00:44:37] So you make those little adjustments and you got to suck it up and you do something that
[00:44:40] you might not want to do, but in the long run, it's going to be beneficial.
[00:44:44] Yeah.
[00:44:45] I mean, this, I, I don't even know if this is even a remotely close comparison.
[00:44:50] But what I am saying is this, you take a human being and you say, look, you can either
[00:44:55] step up and act a different way and be abusive to these people or you're going to be dead
[00:45:00] in three days.
[00:45:01] That's it.
[00:45:02] Those are your choices.
[00:45:03] Yeah.
[00:45:04] And it's not that hard to figure out that a lot of people are going to step up and say,
[00:45:07] cool, all of you, those people because I need to live, need to live.
[00:45:11] Yeah.
[00:45:12] My choices either death.
[00:45:13] Yeah.
[00:45:14] And by the way, maybe the, maybe the the best person in that group is going to say, you
[00:45:19] know what, I'm going to do this and I'm going to step up and when I abuse these people,
[00:45:24] I'm going to do a little bit less than someone else might.
[00:45:26] And therefore, I'm doing the best I can.
[00:45:28] Yeah.
[00:45:29] I mean, these are decisions.
[00:45:31] How do you even think about these decisions?
[00:45:33] Yeah.
[00:45:34] No, man.
[00:45:35] And you have to think about it.
[00:45:36] You have to understand, you have to understand what human nature is that there is a survival
[00:45:40] point for humans.
[00:45:42] You have an instinct to survive that very few people can overcome.
[00:45:46] Yeah.
[00:45:48] And I don't even, you know, again, how do you judge whether it's right to overcome it or not?
[00:45:54] When is it right?
[00:45:55] I mean, obviously, when is it right?
[00:45:57] We're sitting here.
[00:45:58] You say, hey, don't, you know, these guys, why would you kill yourself?
[00:46:01] Well, if you don't do these things, you're basically killing yourself.
[00:46:05] If you don't step up, if you don't say, okay, I'll work as a capo.
[00:46:10] If you don't do that, you're killing yourself.
[00:46:11] Right.
[00:46:12] Is that make it okay?
[00:46:13] Man.
[00:46:14] Yeah.
[00:46:15] It's brutal.
[00:46:16] It's like you got to figure out whether or not you're better off dead in the, even in the grand scheme
[00:46:19] of things.
[00:46:20] Like these, these people that they're going to kind of succumb to these positions or do all these
[00:46:25] low things to survive, so they can survive and you don't live on and all this stuff.
[00:46:31] So it's either that or am I better off dead overall.
[00:46:35] You know, like that's the decision you got to make.
[00:46:37] Tank.
[00:46:38] Who knows what you think, especially with all these conditions?
[00:46:42] Yeah.
[00:46:43] You know, the opposite of that was Dick Winners was talking about how he had, and I don't
[00:46:46] know if I talked about it on the podcast, but in the book conversations with Dick Winners,
[00:46:52] you go through a big section where he talks about some of the guys and his
[00:46:55] company.
[00:46:56] And he called him the killers and he actually went on and said, hey, you know, I don't
[00:47:00] want to call him killers because that's going to give the wrong impression.
[00:47:04] But these guys were my most aggressive guys.
[00:47:07] They were my best guys.
[00:47:09] And he said, they didn't make it past.
[00:47:12] You know, he said, most of them didn't make it.
[00:47:13] I forget which, which battle, but he said, most of them didn't make it past this certain
[00:47:18] time because they were so aggressive.
[00:47:20] They were such good guys. They were so brave that they didn't make it.
[00:47:27] And this is sort of the opposite where you have the people that are brave.
[00:47:31] I guess no, it's the same in that people that are brave and going to hold their values.
[00:47:34] They're going to die.
[00:47:35] Right.
[00:47:36] And if you think about somebody that's cowardly in combat, that says, oh, you know, what,
[00:47:42] you know, echo you go first.
[00:47:43] I'm going to sit over here behind this, you know, covered position.
[00:47:47] Yeah.
[00:47:48] And it's a micro example of what we're talking about here.
[00:47:53] Yeah.
[00:47:54] Yeah.
[00:47:55] And this, this, given the book in what we're talking about, it might come off as borderline
[00:48:01] insulting, if not full fledged insulting.
[00:48:04] But you ever watched this show survivor?
[00:48:06] I, I, I, I was the first one when it was kind of a thing.
[00:48:09] Yeah.
[00:48:10] And it was an interesting psychology happening.
[00:48:12] Yeah.
[00:48:13] And that's like a lot of this Rudy Bosch was on it.
[00:48:15] You know, this, see, retired seal map.
[00:48:18] Yeah.
[00:48:19] And it's like, you know, everyone kind of knew in the seal teams.
[00:48:21] Okay.
[00:48:22] Yeah.
[00:48:23] So, especially when you're going to say is that the, the people that are not good human
[00:48:27] beings are the ones that went a lot.
[00:48:29] Well, they get far put it that way because they have this weird mechanism at the end,
[00:48:33] where the last, you know, few people who get voted off, they become this sort of a jury.
[00:48:38] So it's like if you went through the whole game, screwing people over, the jury's going
[00:48:41] to get you kind of thing.
[00:48:43] So it's a, yeah.
[00:48:44] And this is just how the show just sorted itself out over time.
[00:48:48] But the first ones didn't have any jury, right?
[00:48:49] I don't, I don't know.
[00:48:50] I don't know.
[00:48:51] I don't know.
[00:48:52] I'm going to go ahead and say, I'm almost positive they didn't because Rudy had his
[00:48:57] hand on some log and they had to keep it there for like X and for a whole time.
[00:49:01] And one person, you know, he actually, he like fought us on something else and took his
[00:49:05] hand off and then he was out.
[00:49:06] That was it.
[00:49:07] Okay.
[00:49:08] But yeah, there's absolute comparison there.
[00:49:10] There's an absolute comparison to, you know, if you're willing to be a snake, right,
[00:49:17] you can, and you can, you can win the game.
[00:49:20] And I've talked about that to in promotion.
[00:49:22] People getting promoted.
[00:49:23] And if you're willing to be a snake, you can get promoted.
[00:49:27] But the thing that I will say in a work environment is that that snake might get one
[00:49:32] promotion.
[00:49:33] They might get two promotions.
[00:49:35] They're not going to go to the distance.
[00:49:36] And if you hold the line on doing what's correct, then you might miss that first
[00:49:43] promotion.
[00:49:44] You might even miss that second promotion.
[00:49:45] And eventually, if you're on the right path, you will get the recognition and you will
[00:49:50] win in the long run.
[00:49:51] You've got to be patient though.
[00:49:52] Yeah.
[00:49:53] Yeah.
[00:49:54] I mean, obviously in your job, it's not life or death.
[00:49:58] You know, death isn't so close that, you know, one slip up your death.
[00:50:01] You're dead.
[00:50:02] So that's, you know, obviously the dynamics are different in work in that way.
[00:50:06] But otherwise, I think so.
[00:50:08] And survivor, there's also that other thing that kind of, what they talked about where or
[00:50:12] what you're just talking about is.
[00:50:14] If you, it's kind of, in a matter of speaking, playing at safe where you're just hiding
[00:50:19] under the wing, you might attach yourself to someone or you'll avoid any kind of, you
[00:50:25] know, risky, persuasion, and so in survivor, you can make it far like that as well.
[00:50:32] And nowadays, everyone knows about those things.
[00:50:34] Like, oh, you backstabbed everyone.
[00:50:35] Or you just hid behind this guy because he's strong by the same time, just like how you're
[00:50:40] saying, if you're brave or you're going to stick to your morals and be honest with everyone,
[00:50:44] you'll get voted off real quick.
[00:50:45] Even if you're really good at, you know, the challenges, but don't even really good leaders
[00:50:50] get voted.
[00:50:51] Like if someone just does a dynamic, they go to the office.
[00:50:53] That would be right.
[00:50:54] Yeah, yeah, see you later.
[00:50:55] Too much of a threat to everybody else.
[00:50:57] And actually what you're talking about going through seal training, I would hear it.
[00:51:00] And it was, I didn't hear it when I went through.
[00:51:02] But I heard it later, this idea of the gray man.
[00:51:05] And I think we might have actually answered a question on the podcast about that was going
[00:51:08] through training and just being a gray man, meaning just don't stand out.
[00:51:11] Right.
[00:51:12] That's the other.
[00:51:13] And you'll be good to go.
[00:51:15] And that's a strategy.
[00:51:18] That's a strategy.
[00:51:19] Right.
[00:51:20] And the seal team is a strategy going through buds through seal training, the initial seal
[00:51:24] training course.
[00:51:25] Because the many you stand out, people start knowing who you are.
[00:51:28] And now you got instructors looking at you and the more they watch you, the more they can
[00:51:31] see, maybe you're making some mistakes or maybe you're not doing everything right or maybe
[00:51:35] you're not.
[00:51:36] And so it's better just to be that guy in the middle.
[00:51:38] I was the guy in the middle, not because I wanted to be.
[00:51:41] Because I was not, you know, the fastest runner I wasn't the best runner.
[00:51:46] What you don't want to be is the guy on the tail end.
[00:51:48] Right.
[00:51:49] And it's weird because I put so many guys not through the basic seal training, but through
[00:51:52] the advanced seal training.
[00:51:54] And the guys that I remember, there's two types of guys that I remember, the guys that
[00:51:57] were awesome and the guys that were horrible.
[00:51:59] And the guys in the middle, all the gray guys, I know them when I see them, but a lot
[00:52:02] of times I know 100%.
[00:52:04] I might not know their name.
[00:52:06] Whereas some of the pipeters, the young pipeters, some E5 pipeter that was just getting
[00:52:10] after it.
[00:52:11] I always remember those guys names because they would take control of everything.
[00:52:13] And they'd stand out.
[00:52:14] And then the other guys you remember, a guy that are totally jacked up.
[00:52:18] So that idea of being a gray man, it seems like a good policy to have in the concentration
[00:52:23] cap.
[00:52:24] Look, I just don't want to stand out.
[00:52:25] I don't want to have a limp.
[00:52:26] I don't want to, you know, come across as I just want to fit in in the gray man.
[00:52:31] Unless you're going to go the distance, right?
[00:52:35] Which is, and that's a horrible way of saying, I'm going to stand out by saying, hey,
[00:52:39] I can whip these prisoners into shape.
[00:52:42] That's going and raising your hand and saying, I'll be a capo.
[00:52:45] I'm going to step up and what you're risking there is we don't know where this war is
[00:52:50] going to end and where you're going to be at the end of this thing.
[00:52:53] And I read some stories about that.
[00:52:55] The war didn't.
[00:52:57] And they did liberate these camps.
[00:52:59] And it didn't work out.
[00:53:00] Good for the capos.
[00:53:04] So there's the same thing.
[00:53:06] You might have done all right, getting your promotion the first couple of times, but eventually
[00:53:11] it comes around.
[00:53:12] Yeah, exactly right.
[00:53:15] You know, hardly flanagan was talking about karma.
[00:53:17] And I don't know how much reality there is to that.
[00:53:20] But there's the reality of you reap what you sow.
[00:53:24] Yeah.
[00:53:25] And if you treat people, if you take advantage of your position, if you maneuver and
[00:53:29] screw people over to get ahead of them, they'll remember that.
[00:53:32] Yeah.
[00:53:33] They'll remember that.
[00:53:34] Yeah.
[00:53:35] And karma with you.
[00:53:36] And it's never worth it, by the way.
[00:53:39] It's almost never worth it.
[00:53:41] I mean, could you possibly come up with some scenario where, you know, I did this to get
[00:53:47] a promotion.
[00:53:48] So that I could take care of you and everyone else.
[00:53:49] You could come up with this.
[00:53:50] Yeah, but it's very, very rare.
[00:53:52] And my gut feeling was always like it's not worth it.
[00:53:57] It's not worth it to do those little maneuvers and try and better your position on other
[00:54:03] people's backs.
[00:54:04] Yeah.
[00:54:05] We're screwing someone over in.
[00:54:06] Because you've got to live with that too.
[00:54:07] I mean, unless you're like a sociopath or something like that, you have to live with
[00:54:11] that.
[00:54:12] And man, yeah.
[00:54:14] And even at the time, it seems like, oh, I could live with that.
[00:54:17] Cause, oh, look at what?
[00:54:18] You're actually, you're actually taking a higher road than me.
[00:54:21] Because you're saying you personally have to live with it.
[00:54:23] And that's definitely, I'm saying beyond that, even if you're a person that can live with
[00:54:26] it, you're still going to pay in a long run.
[00:54:29] Even if you look yourself in the mirror, but like, I don't care, I got promoted.
[00:54:31] It's good.
[00:54:32] That's, that's, okay.
[00:54:33] So you can live with that.
[00:54:34] That's cool.
[00:54:35] But guess what, there's something else you're going to, that's going to come back around.
[00:54:38] And that is one of those other people that you stepped on their back is going to invent
[00:54:43] something new at work.
[00:54:44] And he's going to take over the division and you're going to pay.
[00:54:46] Not to mention the 10 people who watched it happen.
[00:54:48] Yeah.
[00:54:49] You know, yeah.
[00:54:50] You're just making enemies.
[00:54:51] Yeah.
[00:54:52] enemies.
[00:54:53] And that's really what Karma is for.
[00:54:55] I mean, karma could be this mystical thing that personally watches you and has this
[00:54:59] judgment system.
[00:55:00] But you can just be real.
[00:55:02] Just real life.
[00:55:03] So walk up to, you know, even mean you're even.
[00:55:05] We don't know each other.
[00:55:06] I don't have any bad or good feelings towards you.
[00:55:08] And I come and I slap you.
[00:55:10] I created a deficit now.
[00:55:12] Now you're in 10.
[00:55:13] You're right.
[00:55:14] Big deficit.
[00:55:15] Yeah.
[00:55:16] So you're intention, whether you do it or not, you're, what you, you're compelled
[00:55:21] to slap me back if not more.
[00:55:23] Usually more.
[00:55:24] Yeah.
[00:55:25] Because, you know, so that's kind of really what it is.
[00:55:26] I mean, really in a small teeny tiny nutshell.
[00:55:28] Yeah.
[00:55:29] I go out and start acting mad to everyone.
[00:55:32] They're not going to be like, oh, I love you.
[00:55:34] I mean, they might be, you know, intellectual or, you know, they might be
[00:55:37] able to think about it.
[00:55:38] But their natural compulsion will be to be mad at you back.
[00:55:42] And this, you know, the podcast, human nature, talking about human nature.
[00:55:47] And I always say that war reveals human nature more clearly than anything else.
[00:55:52] Because it's so much pressure on the people.
[00:55:55] Obviously a concentration camp, it's revealing human nature.
[00:55:58] And that's exactly what we're talking about.
[00:56:00] And it reveals itself in crystal clarity on a massive scale in terms of being able to
[00:56:07] see it in a concentration camp.
[00:56:09] And you see it reveal itself on a TV show called survivor.
[00:56:13] And you see it reveal itself in the work environment.
[00:56:16] And what I'm saying is, from all that, what you want to do is you want to make sure that
[00:56:22] when you get put into a position of authority, you don't abuse it.
[00:56:26] That's what I'm saying.
[00:56:27] You don't want to abuse it. You want to treat people with respect no matter what.
[00:56:33] And you don't want to step on people's backs to get ahead because ultimately it's not
[00:56:38] going to pay off.
[00:56:39] It really isn't.
[00:56:40] Yeah.
[00:56:41] You're only going to fool.
[00:56:43] Like that leader that you, that you fooled and thinking that you are a great guy.
[00:56:47] That's only going to last for so long.
[00:56:49] And eventually you're going to get found out.
[00:56:53] Now, all right, let's get back into the book here.
[00:57:01] The experiences of camp life show that man does have a choice of action.
[00:57:07] And this is we've talked about the capitals and he's going to talk about some of the
[00:57:09] more heroic people and some of those actions very briefly.
[00:57:14] And he says because it's the reason there's very briefly because there wasn't a lot of them.
[00:57:20] The experiences of camp life show that man does have a choice of action.
[00:57:23] There were enough examples often of a heroic nature which proved that apathy could be overcome
[00:57:30] irritability, irritability suppressed.
[00:57:34] Man can preserve a vestige of spiritual freedom.
[00:57:39] Of independence of mind, even in such terrible conditions of psychic and physical stress.
[00:57:47] We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through huts, comforting
[00:57:54] others, giving away their last piece of bread.
[00:57:59] They may have been few and number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken
[00:58:06] from a man but one thing.
[00:58:09] The last of the human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances
[00:58:18] to choose one's own way.
[00:58:22] And there it is.
[00:58:23] I mean that is it.
[00:58:26] That is it.
[00:58:27] This idea and captain plumb talked about it as well and captain plumb had a quote from Stockdale.
[00:58:36] We got to explore this and I've got a bunch of stockdale books and we will get to some
[00:58:40] stockdale books.
[00:58:41] Who is the senior guy in the Hanau Hillton and he's a fighter pilot philosopher guy, brilliant
[00:58:49] guy in the hero.
[00:58:50] One was awarded the Medal of Honor and one of the things that Captain Plumb was talking
[00:58:56] to us about is Captain Plumb said that they got word from Stockdale and I'm going to misquote
[00:59:02] it by I'm going to do my best.
[00:59:04] It was just because we're in a prison camp doesn't mean we have to be on defense.
[00:59:10] We're going to be on offense.
[00:59:11] In a prison camp, that's just a completely different attitude.
[00:59:17] It's choosing the attitude.
[00:59:18] We're not going to sit here and be abused and be put down.
[00:59:23] We're going to step up.
[00:59:25] We're going to go on offense and they did.
[00:59:27] They did hunger strikes.
[00:59:28] They passed word around.
[00:59:29] They wouldn't stand up when people entered.
[00:59:31] They did these things.
[00:59:35] They went on offense.
[00:59:38] Human freedom to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances.
[00:59:44] We always have that choice.
[00:59:47] No matter what the circumstances are that it's around you, always have that choice.
[00:59:55] Back to the book and there will always choices to make.
[00:59:59] Every day, every hour offered the opportunity to make a decision.
[01:00:03] A decision which determined whether you would or would not submit to those powers which
[01:00:09] threatened to rob you of your very self, your inner freedom.
[01:00:15] Which determined whether or not you would become the plaything of circumstance.
[01:00:21] Conceying freedom and dignity to become molded into the form of the typical inmate.
[01:00:28] Again, there it is.
[01:00:36] You're in a concentration camp, doomed, doomed.
[01:00:42] And yet you can hang on to that last bastion of freedom in your soul.
[01:00:48] To not let them win and not let them own that.
[01:00:57] Back to the book, seen from this point of view the mental reactions of the inmates of
[01:01:01] a concentration camp must seem more to us than the mere expression of certain physical
[01:01:06] and sociological conditions.
[01:01:09] Even though conditions such as lack of sleep, insufficient food and various mental stresses
[01:01:14] may suggest that the inmates were bound to react in certain ways, in the final analysis,
[01:01:20] it becomes clear that the sort of person the prisoner became was the result of inner
[01:01:27] decision and not the result of camp influences alone.
[01:01:36] Think about that.
[01:01:40] The sort of person the prisoner became was the result of an inner decision.
[01:01:46] Not the result of the circumstances here and that doesn't matter what kind of person you
[01:01:49] become.
[01:01:50] What matters is the decisions that you make.
[01:01:58] Unbelievable.
[01:02:02] Back to the book, fundamentally, therefore any man can, even under such circumstances, decide
[01:02:09] what shall become of him mentally and spiritually.
[01:02:13] Okay, physically, you can have that one.
[01:02:14] Can't control that all the time, but mentally and spiritually, I get to decide what I'm going to be.
[01:02:26] He may retain his human dignity even in a concentration camp.
[01:02:33] Thus the Fsky said, once there is only one thing that I dread not to be worthy of my sufferings.
[01:02:43] These words frequently came to my mind after I became acquainted with those martyrs
[01:02:48] who's behavior in camp, who's suffering and death bore witness to the fact that the last
[01:02:56] inner freedom cannot be lost.
[01:03:01] It can be said that they will worthy of their sufferings.
[01:03:07] The way they bore their suffering was a genuine inner achievement.
[01:03:14] It is this spiritual freedom which cannot be taken away that makes life meaningful and
[01:03:22] purposeful.
[01:03:28] The way in which a man accepts his fate and all the suffering it entails, the way in which
[01:03:34] he takes up his cross gives him ample opportunity, even under the most difficult circumstances
[01:03:40] to add a deeper meaning to his life.
[01:03:44] It may remain brave, dignified and unselfish, or in the bitter fight for self-preservation,
[01:03:53] he may forget his human dignity and become no more than an animal.
[01:03:59] Heurlies the chance for a man either to make use of or to forego the opportunities of
[01:04:04] attaining the moral values that a difficult situation may afford him.
[01:04:12] And this decides whether he is worthy of his sufferings or not.
[01:04:18] So think about that, when you get faced with this ultimate challenge, brutal challenge,
[01:04:26] when life is just about to crush you, that's when you have the biggest opportunity to
[01:04:34] prove who you are.
[01:04:38] Speaking of unworthy topics, but this is something I, when I was, when I first got to see
[01:04:47] what was at Silti-Mond, I ran a communications class.
[01:04:52] When I ran the class, I was super hard.
[01:04:56] I know it comes as a big shocker.
[01:04:57] But we would test, test, test on all these different subjects.
[01:05:02] What radio, what frequency you ran with, what all these different subjects.
[01:05:09] I would say the guys, hey, tomorrow we got another test, another opportunity for you to
[01:05:13] prove yourself.
[01:05:15] That's the way I looked at it.
[01:05:17] They didn't always look at it the same way.
[01:05:18] But that's exactly what he's saying here.
[01:05:21] When you have these brutal circumstances that you face, that's your opportunity.
[01:05:28] And if you think about all heroic tales, right?
[01:05:31] There's no heroic tales where the hero doesn't face any challenges.
[01:05:35] And as a matter of fact, the worst challenge is that he faces the more of a hero he becomes.
[01:05:39] If he rises to the occasion, if he doesn't rise to the occasion, guess what?
[01:05:42] We don't hear about it.
[01:05:43] Not a hero.
[01:05:47] In fact, let's say you're considered a hero.
[01:05:52] And then this big chance to prove yourself comes about and you fail or you don't step up,
[01:06:00] you're kind of like this big failure in a way.
[01:06:02] Even though you've been a hero the whole time.
[01:06:04] Yeah, I would say that's true.
[01:06:07] Although if you do something heroic enough, people are like good with it.
[01:06:12] I think.
[01:06:13] If they're significant enough, it's kind of the same thing.
[01:06:17] I mean, the bottom line is you face these challenges and you get challenged to have this attitude
[01:06:24] of basically good opportunity to solve the problems.
[01:06:30] Oh, big challenge, cool opportunity.
[01:06:32] Good.
[01:06:33] Yes, like those guys who, they start a business, the business is like,
[01:06:37] grows and then it just massively fails because of some mistake or I don't know something.
[01:06:42] Or the kind of out in a whatever.
[01:06:44] And then they reach, rock bottom and they build themselves back up and then it's this massive
[01:06:49] success.
[01:06:50] That's such an impressive story.
[01:06:52] Yeah, you know, that's much better than hey, I went to this school.
[01:06:56] I graduated.
[01:06:57] I worked this job.
[01:06:58] I made a bunch of money.
[01:06:59] Yeah.
[01:07:00] Everyone goes on cool.
[01:07:01] Right?
[01:07:02] Cool.
[01:07:03] Yeah, cool.
[01:07:04] They want to hear the struggle.
[01:07:05] They want to see that you were challenged.
[01:07:07] Yep.
[01:07:08] Back to the book, everywhere man is confronted with fate, with the chance of achieving
[01:07:17] something through his own suffering.
[01:07:19] God, think about that.
[01:07:21] The suffering that you're going through is an a chance to achieve something through your
[01:07:29] suffering.
[01:07:30] That's an incredible thought.
[01:07:32] Yeah.
[01:07:33] That's an incredible thought.
[01:07:36] Now, this next part is something that I get asked about on a fairly regular basis.
[01:07:43] Back to the book, take the fate of the sick, especially those who are incurable.
[01:07:50] I once read a letter written by young invalid in which he told a friend that he had just
[01:07:55] found out he would not live for long.
[01:07:57] That even an operation would be of no help.
[01:08:00] He wrote further that he remembered a film he had seen in which a man was portrayed
[01:08:05] who waited for death and encouraged and dignified way.
[01:08:11] The boy had a thought.
[01:08:13] The boy had thought it had great accomplishment to meet death so well.
[01:08:18] Now he wrote, fate was offering him a similar chance.
[01:08:25] Yeah.
[01:08:26] I mean, there's, there's, you know, diseases, terminal diseases.
[01:08:35] And that's it.
[01:08:37] And then what do you do?
[01:08:39] Well, I think you have to choose the best possible attitude you can.
[01:08:45] And again, I've never been in that situation, obviously.
[01:08:49] But that statement seems to be the best possible attitude to take.
[01:09:00] Again, that's when we see people doing something heroic.
[01:09:04] That's what we see.
[01:09:05] I know it's funny some of those when we were doing a lot of the Native Americans on
[01:09:10] the podcast.
[01:09:11] They all had that attitude.
[01:09:12] When you go to face death, hold your head high.
[01:09:16] Be afraid of it.
[01:09:19] And that's really, like you said, it's an easier sitting here in the recording studio.
[01:09:24] And of course, easy for me to sit here and say that.
[01:09:29] But that's a hard one.
[01:09:30] You know, the other day on the Jill Rogan podcast, Everlast was on there.
[01:09:39] And Jill Rogan, you know, Everlast was saying, hey, you know, I'm not in good shape right
[01:09:45] now.
[01:09:46] I wish I could better shape, but I have, you know, bad.
[01:09:47] I think he's got a back injury.
[01:09:49] And he's got this and he's got a daughter that's got some kind of illness, bad illness.
[01:09:53] And Joe put on the good video that you made.
[01:09:57] And you know, Everlast, when he got done, Everlast was like, hey, that's cool.
[01:10:01] That's inspirational.
[01:10:02] But how does that help me with my sick daughter?
[01:10:04] Yeah.
[01:10:05] What's good about that?
[01:10:06] You know?
[01:10:07] And I wish I could have jumped through and talked to him because this much I will say, when
[01:10:14] you got a bad situation like that, I'm telling you right now, it could be worse.
[01:10:20] Absolutely a hundred percent.
[01:10:23] And the fact that he's talking about his daughter and how she's sick and how he has
[01:10:26] to spend so much time with her to take care of her, well, well, that's what I'm saying.
[01:10:30] Yeah.
[01:10:31] Be thankful that you're in a position in life where you can spend time with her.
[01:10:33] Be thankful that she's in a condition where she can spend time with you.
[01:10:37] Yeah.
[01:10:38] And you know, there's, she's still here.
[01:10:41] If nothing else, that's good.
[01:10:43] If nothing else.
[01:10:45] And so what are you going to do?
[01:10:46] I mean, your, your other option is to say my daughter sick.
[01:10:50] This is horrible.
[01:10:51] I got cursed.
[01:10:52] It's, it's not fair.
[01:10:54] And what does that do for you?
[01:10:55] Where does that get you?
[01:10:56] It doesn't get you anywhere.
[01:10:58] It matter fact that takes you backwards.
[01:11:00] Yeah.
[01:11:01] So you really truly do have to look at these horrible situations.
[01:11:05] I remember, I got a call back from from overseas that a guy was a seal was really
[01:11:14] badly wounded.
[01:11:16] And a couple of my friends were kind of distraught.
[01:11:22] And I talked to one of the guys overseas.
[01:11:25] And I, you know, and, and man, I, at this point, you know, lost Mark, lost Mikey.
[01:11:33] I don't think Ryan had died yet.
[01:11:34] But like I was familiar with guys dying.
[01:11:39] Yeah.
[01:11:40] And I talked to one of the guys that was overseas.
[01:11:43] And they said, hey, you know, this guy is really, really messed up.
[01:11:46] And I'm like, is he going to live?
[01:11:49] And they're like, yeah, he's stable.
[01:11:51] And I go then don't worry about a thing.
[01:11:54] Be happy.
[01:11:55] He's alive.
[01:11:56] And it doesn't matter if he's missing a leg or two legs or whatever, he's going
[01:12:02] to be coming home.
[01:12:04] And he's going to carry on with his life.
[01:12:06] And it's going to be hard.
[01:12:07] And it's going to be hell.
[01:12:08] And it's going to be a challenge.
[01:12:10] But guess what?
[01:12:11] He's going to be here.
[01:12:13] Yeah.
[01:12:14] And that, you know, again, it's like, man, what's the alternative?
[01:12:18] The alternative is he's dead.
[01:12:20] The alternative is we never talk to him again.
[01:12:22] That's the alternative.
[01:12:24] Yeah.
[01:12:25] He's going to come back.
[01:12:26] Right?
[01:12:27] And this guy, the guy that got wounded, he wasn't like a great friend of mine.
[01:12:31] But I knew us talking to people that were very close to him.
[01:12:34] And so, you know, I had to make sure I wasn't coming across like, hey, it's no big deal.
[01:12:39] I, you know, look, he's going to be fine.
[01:12:41] No, it wasn't like that.
[01:12:42] But look, look what the alternative is.
[01:12:44] You know, let's be thankful that he's alive.
[01:12:47] Yeah.
[01:12:48] And he's going to come home.
[01:12:49] And we're, you know, he's going to carry on with his life.
[01:12:52] And that's what's important.
[01:12:53] So it's really when you do look at these situations, when things are going bad.
[01:12:59] And then you say, okay, well, good.
[01:13:00] Come with that.
[01:13:01] And then the one step further is then what happens when someone does die?
[01:13:05] Then what good comes of that?
[01:13:06] And my thought is always the same thing.
[01:13:09] I'm thankful that I got to know that person.
[01:13:12] I'm thankful that I got to understand their personality.
[01:13:16] I'm thankful that I got to spend a day with them laughing and having that memory.
[01:13:22] Yeah.
[01:13:23] So, what's good is I got to experience them in my life and they got to experience other
[01:13:27] people's in their lives.
[01:13:28] And that's what's good about it.
[01:13:31] But just to say, hey, you know, my friend, my family member is dead.
[01:13:38] This is horrible.
[01:13:39] And I can't escape from this.
[01:13:41] Wrong attitude.
[01:13:42] And of course, you're going to go through that.
[01:13:44] It's the, there's the, whatever those things are that you go through.
[01:13:47] It's shock.
[01:13:48] And then denial.
[01:13:49] And then anger and then acceptance and all that.
[01:13:53] That's I get it.
[01:13:54] And it's not going to be easy.
[01:13:56] But I'll tell you what will make it easier is to look at the situation and say, what
[01:14:02] here is good.
[01:14:04] You know, and you, one of the worst things is parents without have young children that
[01:14:09] are terminally ill.
[01:14:10] It's awful.
[01:14:12] It's awful.
[01:14:13] And the best you can think of is say, hold them while you can.
[01:14:18] Right?
[01:14:19] And get what you can and grow the memories that you can right now.
[01:14:23] Because just to focus on the fact that life isn't fair isn't going to help you.
[01:14:27] And guess what?
[01:14:28] You're right.
[01:14:29] Life isn't fair.
[01:14:30] Yeah.
[01:14:31] Life isn't fair.
[01:14:32] It's, it's a random, horrible thing.
[01:14:37] And if you want to focus on the randomness and the horribleness of it, that's where you're
[01:14:41] going to end up.
[01:14:43] And if you can focus on the good that comes out of those situations, try to.
[01:14:48] And again, I haven't been through that.
[01:14:50] I haven't been through that.
[01:14:51] Thank God.
[01:14:52] Yeah, not that level.
[01:14:53] But the best I can do, the best I can assess is say, man, at least try and look at what
[01:14:59] positive is coming out of this.
[01:15:01] And focus on that instead of focusing on what is negative, chew.
[01:15:06] It's going back to what Frankl said.
[01:15:08] You choose what you're at if you're just going to be.
[01:15:10] Yeah.
[01:15:11] Don't become a victim of the randomness.
[01:15:14] Yeah.
[01:15:15] And that goes on on all levels.
[01:15:18] You know, even if something isn't horrible, it's just kind of junk.
[01:15:24] All the way down to just something that's pretty horrible.
[01:15:27] There's still a lot of good going on in the situation.
[01:15:30] But in just like, are you saying, like, your attitude or another way to put it is what you're
[01:15:35] looking for to internalize?
[01:15:38] You know, a lot of times I know it's natural.
[01:15:40] And I've been there where it's like, everything just seems bad.
[01:15:43] Even the smut like, if something real bad happens, that you think is real bad.
[01:15:46] And then the same day or the next year, whatever, something small bad happens, it'll just
[01:15:51] add big time to the badness.
[01:15:52] Like, nothing's going right.
[01:15:54] Kind of attitude.
[01:15:55] Meanwhile, all the good things are going on all around you.
[01:15:57] We're not looking for that all those things.
[01:15:58] Yeah.
[01:15:59] So in a lot of times with like, real bad situations, especially with kids, because that's
[01:16:03] like the the most weak you can ever feel really like your kid.
[01:16:07] Like when my daughter had to chew a big staff infection.
[01:16:09] And so in her lymph nodes over neck of the age and the hospital for a week.
[01:16:13] And we're there.
[01:16:15] That's like the most weak in that that you'll feel in, of course, there's way worse situations.
[01:16:20] Yeah.
[01:16:21] And then that's nothing compared to situations.
[01:16:23] I know that.
[01:16:24] But there are good things that are still going on in your situation, your life.
[01:16:30] That's a B. There's good situations that can come of it.
[01:16:34] And a lot of them, a lot of them are strength related.
[01:16:38] You know, like if you let something beat you down and you don't get this strength, like
[01:16:42] that's a loss.
[01:16:43] You'll lose.
[01:16:44] Like you'll, so you're saying you're getting some kind of conditioning from it.
[01:16:48] In a way, in a matter of speaking, yes.
[01:16:51] So like if you have a quote unquote good attitude, when you emerge from the situation,
[01:16:57] you will have strength now.
[01:16:59] If you don't, you won't, you'll have weakness.
[01:17:01] You'll be, you know, gun shy.
[01:17:03] Everything happens bad.
[01:17:04] My life sucks.
[01:17:05] And you know, you'll continue down.
[01:17:07] And then that road.
[01:17:08] So the good part, like if you said, like I said, if you keep that good attitude, and when
[01:17:13] you make it out, you will have the other good things that can come from it.
[01:17:18] You will have the strength.
[01:17:20] Yeah.
[01:17:21] And you're right.
[01:17:22] And I mean, just look at Captain Plum and look at Colonel Reader.
[01:17:25] Anyhow, for those guys to go through what they went through and maintain a positive attitude.
[01:17:30] And then they come out and you talk to those guys and it's like, you can't think of
[01:17:33] more positive people in the world.
[01:17:36] Yeah.
[01:17:37] You know, I mean, not in the whole world, but you, they're just have so much positivity
[01:17:41] because they've been through something and they had to maintain that attitude.
[01:17:44] So you're right when they come out.
[01:17:45] It's like how are you going to make?
[01:17:47] And I think that's what happens a lot of times with guys that have been to war is they
[01:17:52] come back and they're like happy to see the sunrise.
[01:17:54] I know I am.
[01:17:55] I'm happy to see the sunrise.
[01:17:57] I'm happier than a lot of people to see the sunrise.
[01:18:00] I appreciate that thing.
[01:18:01] And I think when people go through some kind of devastating disease in their family or
[01:18:05] themselves, same thing once they get through it, they at least come out the other side and
[01:18:10] they can appreciate it.
[01:18:11] And yet if they let it beat them down, it's going to, it's going to everything is going
[01:18:15] to look down.
[01:18:16] If you're looking down, you're going to look down.
[01:18:17] If you're looking up, you're going to look up.
[01:18:19] Yeah.
[01:18:20] That's got to be a, it's hard.
[01:18:23] I mean, it's so hard for people.
[01:18:24] It's so hard.
[01:18:25] Yeah.
[01:18:26] And again, I'm over here talking, you know.
[01:18:28] Yeah, for sure, both of us are.
[01:18:30] You know, when I was on Joe Rogan, we started off talking about Chris Cornell, it's kill
[01:18:34] himself.
[01:18:35] We kind of cursory kind of talked about depression and neither want to.
[01:18:38] I mean, I definitely am not claiming to be any kind of expert at all about it.
[01:18:44] And I even said on there, I was like, look, I've never felt this way.
[01:18:46] And I had just a couple of people hit me up on social media like, you know, you should
[01:18:49] you should read this or you should do this or and, and, you know, or you're not right.
[01:18:54] And I'm like, no, I wasn't even trying to say anything that I'm right.
[01:18:56] I'm just tell, I was saying, I don't actually even know.
[01:18:59] Yeah.
[01:19:00] And so yeah, I'm not, you know, certainly an expert on how to overcome, you know, horrible
[01:19:07] situations.
[01:19:08] But I've been in some pretty horrible situations.
[01:19:10] And this is what my thoughts tried to be.
[01:19:12] Yeah.
[01:19:13] And it's not always easy at all.
[01:19:15] Yeah.
[01:19:16] Jordan Peterson has some good good, you know, good content on that where he's basically
[01:19:23] in that cell, he says, get yourself together where in his example, one of the many was,
[01:19:28] you know, a family member dies or whatever, get yourself together.
[01:19:31] So, you know, what are you going to do?
[01:19:33] Are you going to wallow with the rest of the people?
[01:19:35] So, no one can get a hold of anything in the funerals of master, whatever, or you
[01:19:39] can get yourself together, grief for sure, get, but get yourself together.
[01:19:42] So, you can kind of lead and get the funeral together and take care of the business or whatever.
[01:19:47] And it's such a cold, blooded thing to say, right?
[01:19:50] It's the complete.
[01:19:51] And that's what I think is hard about it is, you know, think about this.
[01:19:57] Oh, if someone in your family died and I was like, echo, get yourself together.
[01:20:00] Right.
[01:20:01] You know what I mean?
[01:20:02] Who says that?
[01:20:03] But that's probably the best thing I could possibly say to you.
[01:20:05] Yeah.
[01:20:06] I might need to say it in a more tactful way.
[01:20:08] I might just say, hey, I command, I feel for you, hey, man, what we need to do is
[01:20:13] grieve, but we also need to focus on moving forward.
[01:20:15] You know what I mean?
[01:20:16] It's that kind of thing.
[01:20:17] But the reality is, what am I really saying?
[01:20:18] I'm really saying, hey, get yourself together.
[01:20:21] You got to move on.
[01:20:22] We got to move on.
[01:20:23] We got to move forward.
[01:20:24] You got to move forward in your life.
[01:20:26] And that's such a hard thing to say to somebody.
[01:20:28] Yeah.
[01:20:29] But that's probably the right attitude to take.
[01:20:33] Yeah.
[01:20:34] Okay.
[01:20:35] Like, this is horrible.
[01:20:37] And I need to keep it together.
[01:20:38] Yeah.
[01:20:39] Yeah.
[01:20:40] Yeah, man, especially when there's no majorly prevalent things that are at risk
[01:20:48] at that moment as well.
[01:20:49] You know, like, your situation, like, in a combat situation, I think BTF Tony was talking
[01:20:54] about this.
[01:20:55] If you're in a firefight or something like that, and something gets hit, you don't just
[01:20:59] quit.
[01:21:00] No.
[01:21:01] Exit the fire fighting.
[01:21:02] Oh, my gosh, my guy's hit.
[01:21:03] It's like, okay, he's hit.
[01:21:05] Boom.
[01:21:06] Let's continue the firefight.
[01:21:07] But let's say there was no firefight.
[01:21:09] Then the guy gets hit.
[01:21:10] It seems like a harder thing to just move on.
[01:21:14] So what are you talking about?
[01:21:15] Yeah.
[01:21:16] You need to have a firefight going on.
[01:21:18] So that you, so that you can say, okay, I'm going to deal with this.
[01:21:24] But I need to also think about the rest of life.
[01:21:27] Yeah.
[01:21:28] So hard.
[01:21:29] And, you know, again, it's, you know what I'm feeling like right now?
[01:21:32] I got, I get some social media sometimes where someone will say, hey, I'm not a vet.
[01:21:38] But like a friend of mine is going through problems.
[01:21:40] And I don't know how to talk to him because I'm not a vet.
[01:21:41] And that's kind of like what I feel like right now.
[01:21:43] Like I haven't been through those kind of suffering.
[01:21:45] So I'm throwing darts.
[01:21:47] But I'm throwing them based on what I know.
[01:21:49] So it's the best, like, you know, best I could do.
[01:21:52] Yeah.
[01:21:53] You're at risk of someone saying, hey, you simply don't understand.
[01:21:58] And my fact is there.
[01:21:59] Yeah.
[01:22:00] And my statement to that would be, yes, I don't understand.
[01:22:03] You know, it's like in the, when I was talking to veterans saying, look, people, you feel
[01:22:08] like people don't understand?
[01:22:10] They don't.
[01:22:11] And that's okay.
[01:22:12] And so definitely not sitting here saying, oh, you know, I know.
[01:22:15] This is what you're doing in a situation like that.
[01:22:17] No, I don't know.
[01:22:18] Yeah.
[01:22:19] I don't know what you do when your family member suffers something.
[01:22:22] I agree just like that.
[01:22:24] Like a terminal disease or deaf.
[01:22:26] I don't know.
[01:22:27] Haven't been through it.
[01:22:30] What I have been through is losing guys in combat.
[01:22:33] That I have been through.
[01:22:34] This is, this is darkness.
[01:22:37] It's a different kind of darkness.
[01:22:39] But this is what I did in those situations.
[01:22:45] And that's what I would think would help you in these other situations.
[01:22:50] Hard.
[01:22:51] Question, right?
[01:22:52] What do you do?
[01:22:53] Hard.
[01:22:54] And we are sitting here reading a book by a guy that was in a concentration camp.
[01:22:59] And he's saying this thing to do.
[01:23:03] So that's another sort of reinforcement of this thought pattern.
[01:23:13] Yeah.
[01:23:14] All right.
[01:23:17] He talks a little bit about the passage of time here.
[01:23:20] In camp, a small unit of time.
[01:23:24] A day, for example, filled with hourly tortures and fatigue appeared endless.
[01:23:30] A larger time unit, perhaps a week, seemed to pass very quickly.
[01:23:35] My comrades agreed when I said that in the camp, a day lasted longer than a week.
[01:23:42] How paradoxical was our time experience.
[01:23:46] And that's something this actually reminded me I was talking to a Sarah Armstrong.
[01:23:50] And well now it's actually around the conversation when life was talking about heat
[01:23:54] come out here and seeing all my kids, my kids are all grown up now.
[01:23:58] Basically, except for my little list one.
[01:24:01] But my oldest daughter's graduate in high school, you know, a couple of weeks and she's
[01:24:04] going to go to college.
[01:24:05] And you know, when life met her, she was, what was that 12 years ago?
[01:24:10] So she was, you know, no, six, something like that.
[01:24:19] So, you know, young and then you came out here, you know, he just come left his apartment
[01:24:24] in New York City where he's got his wife and kids and they're, you know, it's chaos
[01:24:28] and little kids and they're crying and screaming and spilling stuff and throwing up milk
[01:24:32] and pissing everywhere and it's just, you know, that's what life is when you're there.
[01:24:37] And you know, he came out here and saw how my kids were now grown up.
[01:24:41] That time has gone, by the way, gone.
[01:24:43] And get it back.
[01:24:45] And he, you know, he talked about it on the podcast, just name and make sure you appreciate
[01:24:49] those.
[01:24:50] And Sarah Armstrong, you know, said something along the lines of the days are long, but the
[01:24:55] years are short.
[01:24:56] Yeah.
[01:24:57] That's a very true statement.
[01:24:59] And you can, you can see that cured the same thing.
[01:25:02] You know, all of a sudden, this time is just going by so quickly.
[01:25:13] This is starting to talk again back to the attitude.
[01:25:15] We could say that most men in a concentration camp believe that the real opportunities of
[01:25:20] life had passed.
[01:25:22] Yet in reality, there was an opportunity and a challenge.
[01:25:26] One could make a victory of those experiences, turning life into an inner triumph, or
[01:25:33] one could ignore the challenges and simply vegetate as did a majority of the prisoners.
[01:25:39] Same thing, same topic.
[01:25:41] I know it's interesting.
[01:25:43] I told you this before we started this book, you know, is a great book.
[01:25:48] But I, I kind of wanted to talk about how bad concentration camps were, and I went and
[01:25:55] found some other sources for that.
[01:25:59] Because Victor Franco doesn't highlight it that much.
[01:26:03] I mean, his ad, I mean, he was in Auschwitz for crying out loud.
[01:26:06] Doesn't get any worse.
[01:26:08] And, you know, to really give the impact of how bad it was, I went and found some other
[01:26:13] sources that were a little bit more directly written and a little bit more horrifying
[01:26:20] to be lack of a better word.
[01:26:22] Because in his accounts, he doesn't go into those, some of those graphic details, which
[01:26:27] I feel like you should know, and you should understand what.
[01:26:30] Before you talk about, hey, he's keeping a good attitude.
[01:26:32] But no, no, it's not he's keeping a good attitude, because he was in a concentration camp,
[01:26:36] but it wasn't that bad.
[01:26:37] No.
[01:26:38] And that's what he's dealing with.
[01:26:40] And in his mind, you could make a triumph or a victory out of those experiences, which
[01:26:47] is incredible attitude to have.
[01:26:51] Going back to the book, the prisoner who had lost faith in the future, his future was
[01:27:01] doomed.
[01:27:03] With his loss of belief in the future, he also lost his spiritual hold.
[01:27:07] He let himself decline and became subject to mental and physical decay.
[01:27:14] Usually this happened quite suddenly in the form of a crisis, the symptoms of which were
[01:27:18] familiar to the experience camp inmate.
[01:27:22] We all feared this moment, not for ourselves, which would have been pointless, but for
[01:27:26] our friends.
[01:27:28] Usually it began with the prisoner refusing one morning to get dressed and wash or to
[01:27:32] go out on the parade grounds.
[01:27:35] No intrudes, no blows, no threats had any effect.
[01:27:39] He just lay there hardly moving.
[01:27:42] If this crisis was brought about by an illness, he refused to be taken to the sick bay or
[01:27:47] do anything to help himself.
[01:27:49] He simply gave up.
[01:27:52] There he remained lying in his own extra, excret a, and nothing bothered him anymore.
[01:28:02] That's similar to what Colonel Riderset, how if you didn't actively stay alive, you
[01:28:09] would die.
[01:28:10] You couldn't just passively exist.
[01:28:13] You weren't going to make it.
[01:28:14] If you wanted to die, all you had to do is stop trying, then you were going to die.
[01:28:20] Back to the book, as we said before, any attempt to restore a man's inner strength in
[01:28:24] the camp had to first succeed in showing him some future goal.
[01:28:30] In Nietzsche's words, he who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how.
[01:28:43] That could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and psychohyogenic efforts regarding
[01:28:49] prisoners.
[01:28:51] Whenever there was an opportunity for it, one had to give them a why, an aim for their
[01:28:56] lives.
[01:28:57] In order to strengthen them to bear the terrible how of their existence, what to him who
[01:29:04] saw no more sense in his life, no aim, no purpose, and therefore no point to carrying on.
[01:29:12] He was soon lost.
[01:29:14] Got to know why you're doing what you're doing.
[01:29:18] That's all there is to it.
[01:29:19] He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how.
[01:29:26] Obviously, that translates right into a leader's perspective, making sure people understand
[01:29:30] why they're doing what they're doing.
[01:29:31] You just don't part of quarters at him.
[01:29:33] But from an individual perspective, why are you doing this?
[01:29:37] Find that.
[01:29:40] I actually made a post on social media the other day.
[01:29:47] It was something long, a lot of finding your inner why or something like that.
[01:29:53] I was mocking that attitude.
[01:29:58] I was saying sometimes my inner voice is trying to find out why I'm doing what I'm doing.
[01:30:04] When I'm doing something hard, my inner voice doesn't allow to talk.
[01:30:07] Be quiet.
[01:30:08] I'm over here working.
[01:30:12] But there is, obviously, just like a leadership perspective and from a personal perspective,
[01:30:18] why are you doing what you're doing?
[01:30:20] That should be the driving force.
[01:30:23] If you don't have that, it's hard to overcome these challenges.
[01:30:26] You can't just overcome challenges just because they're there.
[01:30:29] You need some greater reason.
[01:30:32] When that gets lost, you get lost.
[01:30:35] I don't know why I thought those were.
[01:30:40] I think the one why you were mocking that, this is my why.
[01:30:45] It wasn't, it wasn't, now that I think about it, it wasn't really the why thing.
[01:30:50] It was more about the inner voice.
[01:30:52] But yeah, I know I definitely said why in the tale.
[01:30:55] Because people do, it's like a lot of good expressions or things or whatever.
[01:31:01] Or people just, oh, I like that and they'll just start throwing it out and abusing it.
[01:31:05] It dumps it down and then everyone's saying it, now it just sort of sounds cheesy because
[01:31:09] no one's actually doing it.
[01:31:11] No one's actually understanding the real what it really means.
[01:31:15] The person who's like, hey, I'm going to lose weight and they've basically spent their life neglecting
[01:31:21] their health or whatever.
[01:31:22] They're like, okay, I'm going to get in shape and then they go on this program.
[01:31:28] They quit, but when they're doing good on the program, let's say the first or second day,
[01:31:32] they'll be like, this is my why and they'll show their dog or something like that.
[01:31:38] My why or my kids or whatever, but then the next day they quit the program.
[01:31:43] It's such a weak thing.
[01:31:44] You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you can't just do that.
[01:31:47] That whole thing, my why.
[01:31:49] Whatever, that's way too powerful for people to just be like, hey, my why and then just not do it.
[01:31:54] It should know just like a little thing.
[01:31:55] You can't just throw a together a 38 second Instagram post that's about you.
[01:32:01] Why.
[01:32:02] That need you need to dig.
[01:32:03] Yeah, you gotta do that stuff.
[01:32:05] So that's why it's funny because like, people just throw that out now.
[01:32:10] Not means like nothing and it's almost like they seem, it seems like it seems like it's
[01:32:15] totally my interpretation of it.
[01:32:17] But it seems like they're saying it and thinking that they sound so profound and deep and
[01:32:22] new and inspirational, you know, but everyone's saying it.
[01:32:26] And to counter your point, I've had plenty of people that have talked to me about, you
[01:32:33] know, I wasn't bad shape.
[01:32:34] I wasn't taking care of myself.
[01:32:36] I wasn't healthy and I had my first kid.
[01:32:40] And I said to myself, I need to be there for my kid or I was doing bad at work and I didn't
[01:32:45] like Aaron, it wasn't focused on that career, it wasn't focused on being squared away and
[01:32:48] I was wasting all my money on dumb stuff and I had my first kid.
[01:32:50] Yeah.
[01:32:51] And then I said, I gotta, you know, this, this is me taking care of my kid and I need to do a
[01:32:55] damn good job.
[01:32:56] And that's exactly the point right there is that it's a real thing.
[01:33:00] And if that's for real, you're, you're why conceptually no.
[01:33:03] I'm just in the expression for sure.
[01:33:05] For sure, but there's a big difference between, well, there's a big difference between
[01:33:09] between the contemplation that goes into.
[01:33:11] I'm doing this for my kid.
[01:33:12] It's cool.
[01:33:13] I'm going to go on weight watchers.
[01:33:14] Right?
[01:33:15] It's like, um, no, like think about this.
[01:33:18] Think about your relationship with your children and where you're going to end up and
[01:33:22] now you want to see them live and what guidance you can give them as human beings.
[01:33:25] And the example that you're sending for them and you line all those things up, then
[01:33:29] maybe you can put down the donuts.
[01:33:31] Yeah, you're not clear it.
[01:33:33] In other words, you gotta do it.
[01:33:34] Yeah.
[01:33:35] Actually, you know, so yeah, that's why it just sounds cheesy because everyone does it.
[01:33:38] It says it.
[01:33:40] This is a great section going back to the book.
[01:33:43] We had to learn ourselves and furthermore, we had to teach the despairing men that it
[01:33:49] did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us.
[01:33:59] We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life and instead to think of ourselves as
[01:34:04] those who were being questioned by life daily and hourly.
[01:34:10] One answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and right conduct.
[01:34:19] Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems
[01:34:25] and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.
[01:34:30] Again, you're turning, you're flipping this idea around.
[01:34:34] It's not about what I want from life.
[01:34:37] It's what what is life want from me.
[01:34:39] And it's putting these challenges and these hurdles in front of me and I gotta go and jump
[01:34:43] over them.
[01:34:44] And then I got a smash them and then I got to set fire to them and then I got to use that
[01:34:48] fire to fuel the domination of everything that's in my path.
[01:34:54] That kind of like, hey, these weights aren't going to lift themselves.
[01:34:57] It's the exact same thing.
[01:34:58] It's the exact same thing.
[01:35:01] Yeah.
[01:35:06] And again, going back to this idea that war reveals human nature and this is Dr. Frankl's
[01:35:16] way of putting this exact same thing that I say back to the book, Life and a concentration
[01:35:21] camp tore open the human soul and exposed its depths.
[01:35:27] It is, is it surprising that in those depths, we again found only human qualities which
[01:35:35] in their very nature were a mixture of good and evil.
[01:35:42] The rift dividing good from evil which goes through all human beings reaches into the
[01:35:47] lowest depths and becomes apparent even on the bottom of the abyss which is laid open by
[01:35:54] the concentration camp.
[01:36:00] So we've got this idea once again that there's a dichotomy.
[01:36:04] In people, in people, this dichotomy that you're capable of doing extreme good and you're
[01:36:13] capable of doing extreme evil.
[01:36:15] And we've seen it a bunch, we've seen it a bunch on this podcast.
[01:36:22] You look at the mele i'masicker.
[01:36:24] Those guys were normal guys that committed extreme evil straight up evil.
[01:36:34] Normal guys that were, you know, four days earlier probably would have done something
[01:36:41] heroic to save someone.
[01:36:44] And here they are the other end of the spectrum.
[01:36:49] And I think that you have to, we have to face that not only individually do you have that,
[01:36:56] but then obviously as the group you have that, as a group of human beings, we have that
[01:37:00] capability.
[01:37:01] We've seen it over and over again.
[01:37:02] If you want to know what that good part is, you got to know what that darkness is
[01:37:05] to.
[01:37:06] Yeah, the group thing is interesting.
[01:37:11] You know, you know, you always hear not always, but you hear sometimes about these riots
[01:37:15] on college campuses, whether it be after a game or something like that.
[01:37:20] But at a glance, you think dang is this college full of just whole guns?
[01:37:25] Like if this bit like you dry it, you know, but it's that.
[01:37:29] It's like as an individual or, you know, under a quote unquote normal circumstances,
[01:37:33] they just, they're just normal people.
[01:37:35] You know, guys girls, whatever, they're just normal people.
[01:37:38] But then you put them in this particular situation in some way extreme or whatever, you know,
[01:37:43] it's a spectrum.
[01:37:44] But, and they just act different.
[01:37:46] And the whole group dynamic to this act different.
[01:37:49] The group dynamic is a, is it can be a very, very scary thing.
[01:37:54] There's no doubt it can be a very, very scary thing.
[01:37:58] And that's why, you know, even when he's talking about, and I mentioned this on when
[01:38:02] I was on Joe Rogan's last podcast and this idea of individual freedom and acting as an individual
[01:38:08] is so important as to structure your life around to say, look, I'm not part of this group.
[01:38:16] Your group is not me.
[01:38:17] Yeah.
[01:38:18] This group is not me.
[01:38:19] They don't represent me.
[01:38:21] I represent me.
[01:38:22] Exactly.
[01:38:23] And I have my own individual choices.
[01:38:26] And that's what he's saying in here, the minute you give away to the herd, that's when
[01:38:31] you start going, you don't know, you're, you don't longer control it.
[01:38:34] Yeah.
[01:38:35] And when you give up that control, that's a scary, scary thing.
[01:38:37] And that's when these evil things take place.
[01:38:39] Yeah.
[01:38:40] And that, once again, it's, it's like, it's easy to say now.
[01:38:45] Because grouping yourself is actually a survival mechanism.
[01:38:49] True.
[01:38:50] So you, you know, it's not going to be just that you're not going to naturally just be an
[01:38:53] individual and act like an individual and conduct yourself in all these extreme situations
[01:38:58] as an individual.
[01:38:59] You're not just going to naturally do that.
[01:39:01] True.
[01:39:02] So I guess it just helps to know these things.
[01:39:05] Well, that's, you're, you're a hundred percent right on both facets.
[01:39:09] Number one, yes.
[01:39:10] Grouping and fitting in is a survival instinct that people have.
[01:39:15] And that's why trends happen.
[01:39:17] And that's why nations happen.
[01:39:19] And that's why that's why groups occur in people.
[01:39:23] And politics.
[01:39:24] Yeah, politics and everything, right?
[01:39:27] The, these groups.
[01:39:28] And I mean, it's weird now because with the internet, you can have groups.
[01:39:31] You can be part of these groups.
[01:39:32] Yeah.
[01:39:33] But honestly, yeah, whatever group you want.
[01:39:35] And you can connect with all these different people.
[01:39:37] But it's also important to make sure that you do remember that you are an individual.
[01:39:45] Man, you can't, that you don't want to give up that last shred of human will to decide
[01:39:53] what your attitude is going to be.
[01:39:54] Yeah, dang.
[01:39:55] And today, you know, in our luxurious society, if you can consciously navigate your waste
[01:40:02] clear that of falling into the group trap, it's what it is.
[01:40:06] It's a trap.
[01:40:07] Because you don't have to, if you can do that successfully, but probably you won't
[01:40:11] fall for the tricks, man.
[01:40:13] Like that's the thing.
[01:40:14] You get air, we all get tricked.
[01:40:15] All the way down to just something is seemingly benign as marketing.
[01:40:20] This man, you'll just fall for way less tricks.
[01:40:23] You don't like those tricks out there in the world, do you?
[01:40:25] No, I don't.
[01:40:27] Probably fell for too many of them, I think.
[01:40:32] This is a, I'm gonna wrap this book.
[01:40:34] This book is not long.
[01:40:35] It's a very fast read.
[01:40:37] And actually, he goes into sort of goes into the more of the psychological, the psychiatrists,
[01:40:46] the actual academic of it than I covered, but this is a fast read.
[01:40:52] I mean, it's only 150 pages or so.
[01:40:55] And you definitely get a raw look at, at human nature.
[01:41:00] But this closing, I think, is very, very powerful.
[01:41:03] Going back to the book, a human being is not one thing among others.
[01:41:10] Things determine each other.
[01:41:12] But man is ultimately self-determining.
[01:41:17] What he becomes within the limits of endowment and environment.
[01:41:23] He has made out of himself.
[01:41:27] In the concentration camps, for example, in this living laboratory and on this testing ground,
[01:41:35] we watched in witness some of our comrades behave like swine.
[01:41:41] All others behave like saints.
[01:41:45] Man has both potentialities within himself, which one is actualized depends on decisions,
[01:41:56] but not on conditions.
[01:42:01] Our generation is realistic for we have come to no man as he really is.
[01:42:09] After all, man is that being who invented the gas chambers of Auschwitz.
[01:42:17] However, he is also that being who entered those gas chambers upright with the Lord's
[01:42:25] prayer, or the Shema Israel on his lips.
[01:42:36] And I think that thought that man has both potentialities within himself and we've seen
[01:42:50] them over and over again.
[01:42:53] These grand expanded potentialities in extreme display.
[01:43:01] And we've talked about these situations in the podcast over and over again in the Burma
[01:43:08] Railway that was built by the prisoners of war, and the prisoners of war were tortured and
[01:43:16] killed by the Japanese and the genocide and a war in the rape of Nanking.
[01:43:21] And we've also seen the other potentiality.
[01:43:30] We've seen that over and over again that potentiality of goodness and of sacrifice.
[01:43:42] Those men that we've seen over and over again that lay down their lives or for their brothers
[01:43:51] and in doing so protect our freedom.
[01:43:58] But it's important to note that again that whether the evil is actualized in the minds
[01:44:08] of men that is not based on conditions but on decisions.
[01:44:18] And this doesn't only apply to good evil, of course, that's the most expansive thought
[01:44:25] that we can apply this to but it also applies to everything we choose to do or choose
[01:44:31] not to do and everything we choose to become or not to become.
[01:44:40] It's us.
[01:44:42] It's our choice and we are responsible.
[01:44:51] We are responsible to be good instead of evil to be strong instead of weak to become what
[01:44:58] we want to become not what we let ourselves become.
[01:45:06] We own the course.
[01:45:13] And with every decision that we make we actualize ourselves would become what we choose.
[01:45:25] Swine or saints.
[01:45:35] So when you make decisions every decision think about where that decision leads and what
[01:45:49] that decision will make you become.
[01:45:56] And then self-determined.
[01:46:06] What will make you a better person.
[01:46:12] And even in situations where you feel you have no choice at all, you still have one last
[01:46:20] freedom and that is to choose your own attitude in any given set of circumstances.
[01:46:31] Keep that choice.
[01:46:36] Keep that freedom that hard choice.
[01:46:42] The disciplined choice.
[01:46:49] With the discipline to make the right choice maintain your freedom.
[01:47:02] And I think that's all I've got for tonight.
[01:47:19] Is it an crazy home?
[01:47:20] I can't help but think of this.
[01:47:22] Like where how they talk about the SS officers, the Nazis, the guys there who are just
[01:47:31] savages.
[01:47:32] Obviously, but are they really savages as people?
[01:47:37] Or is it a circumstantial thing?
[01:47:39] I know they're trained to regard the Jews or these groups of people as being any them and
[01:47:44] all this stuff.
[01:47:47] Are they savages as individuals?
[01:47:49] Because it takes a savage to do some of this stuff.
[01:47:52] Especially grabbing a baby and smashing his books and scolds against the wall.
[01:47:58] That's subhuman behavior.
[01:48:01] When he goes home, he has kids.
[01:48:05] He's like, I don't care if these kids ultimately, if their heads get in, I'm sure he's
[01:48:10] not like that.
[01:48:11] I'm sure he's just a normal person who just be just as weak as all of us if your
[01:48:15] kid stubs its toe and starts crying.
[01:48:19] Yeah, well, we're going to explore.
[01:48:20] I've got some books in the queue to explore the other side of this and they're very
[01:48:25] revealing about some of that.
[01:48:27] But again, it's you're right, that some of these guys were normal, right?
[01:48:38] Some of these Nazis were normal and they were doing their job and that's one of the worst,
[01:48:44] there's a whole argument on whether that even is allowable.
[01:48:51] If you're doing your job and I'll tell you what, in the US military, that doesn't work.
[01:48:56] That's an excuse that we don't have.
[01:48:58] You can't say, hey, I got ordered to do this thing that was against the law or against ethical
[01:49:03] values doesn't matter.
[01:49:05] I still can't do it.
[01:49:06] That's not an excuse.
[01:49:07] And that came directly from this attitude that Nazi said, hey, I was just falling
[01:49:11] orders.
[01:49:12] Hey, what's my father's just falling orders?
[01:49:13] No, actually, you can't say that.
[01:49:15] You know, I'll have to say that.
[01:49:16] So as far as the normalcy, sure, they might have been normal when they went home, but that
[01:49:22] doesn't remove their guilt at all.
[01:49:24] Yeah, fully.
[01:49:25] You can't take a baby and smash it's head against the wall.
[01:49:28] You don't get a pass on that one, whether you ordered to do it or not.
[01:49:32] There's certain moral standards that exist and you can't violate them.
[01:49:36] And if you do, you're guilty.
[01:49:37] It doesn't matter what else you did.
[01:49:39] Back then, who was kind of the authority on that?
[01:49:45] Where the moral was it like a global thing?
[01:49:48] Or is it because obviously Hitler would be like, hey, whatever?
[01:49:52] Well, there's different societies that had different viewpoints.
[01:49:56] Obviously, and not to, hence the war, the Nazis and the Japanese both felt, okay, we can
[01:50:04] do what we need to do to dominate.
[01:50:06] And whether that's the rap and an king or whether that's the concentration camps and the
[01:50:10] final solution, both those things were in their societies.
[01:50:14] Now there was, of course, there was people inside those societies.
[01:50:18] I don't know, I don't know of any Japanese.
[01:50:21] I'm sure there were some Japanese that were against them.
[01:50:23] And even when we'd read the rap and an king, there was a Nazi in an an king, remember
[01:50:27] that sheltered people.
[01:50:29] So there's an example.
[01:50:30] Here's a guy now.
[01:50:31] He didn't know what was going on with the final solution back in Germany.
[01:50:36] At least it doesn't appear that way.
[01:50:38] But yeah, this is what makes morality and ethical decision making so challenging.
[01:50:46] But there is, in my opinion, you know, a certain standard moral code that human beings
[01:50:52] live by.
[01:50:54] And that is a universal, relatively, you know, now there's now a lot of people.
[01:51:00] I should actually say it's universal.
[01:51:01] There's the way that I believe that there's morals and standards that human beings
[01:51:06] live by.
[01:51:07] And when you start stepping outside those bounds, you're going on the wrong side.
[01:51:12] Yeah, and like anything, man, it's like obviously a spectrum.
[01:51:15] And then what you're talking about that universal line that you cross, it's actually
[01:51:19] when you really look at the line, it's like a universal gray area of, and then you really
[01:51:23] look closer.
[01:51:25] But I think that the circumstances don't really fall within the confines of that gray area
[01:51:31] very often.
[01:51:32] So it's easy to be like, that's obviously right.
[01:51:34] That's obviously wrong.
[01:51:35] But then everyone's in all these gray areas of emergent.
[01:51:39] And it's like this big debate and it depends on who you are.
[01:51:41] Yeah.
[01:51:42] I don't spend a lot of time in the gray areas to be honest with you.
[01:51:45] Like in my fall pattern, I don't spend a lot of time in the gray areas.
[01:51:47] I spend time because to me, it is pretty obvious.
[01:51:50] Like when you're ISIS and you're systematically raping 12 year old girls and boys, you
[01:51:57] don't get to live.
[01:51:58] That doesn't work.
[01:51:59] Yeah.
[01:52:00] That's not part of my deal over here.
[01:52:02] You die.
[01:52:03] And when you take people and you put them in cages and you burn them to death, you don't
[01:52:08] get to do that.
[01:52:09] Like these Nazis that are putting people in the context, you don't get to do that.
[01:52:12] No.
[01:52:13] We go to war, we fight, and we win.
[01:52:16] That's the way it works.
[01:52:17] Now these gray areas that you're talking about, I don't mess around in those gray areas.
[01:52:21] Yeah.
[01:52:22] I think there's too much, there's turbulence in there.
[01:52:26] And a lot of times you look at it from the outside and it's hard to tell what it is.
[01:52:31] What it actually is happening in there.
[01:52:33] Right?
[01:52:34] I'll, and maybe that's not the best policy.
[01:52:36] But I won't escalate something personally until I see it go outside the lines of what
[01:52:41] I deem to be.
[01:52:42] Okay.
[01:52:43] Yeah.
[01:52:44] Once you get outside those lines, you're done.
[01:52:45] Well, thankfully you're, you know, a little bit smart in a way where, you know, whether
[01:52:51] you name these things or not, there's always a particular standard that you go by, you
[01:52:55] know.
[01:52:56] So just like the difference between killing someone and when someone says murder, you
[01:53:01] know, murder is clearly defined.
[01:53:04] So if you murder someone, like killing someone is this broad thing, you kill them accidentally
[01:53:11] killed them, you killed them after planning.
[01:53:13] Yeah.
[01:53:14] There's a million.
[01:53:15] The revenge and all that, you know, that's killing someone, but murder is defined.
[01:53:18] You know, so, well, somebody asked me when I, I would attempt for a second time and
[01:53:24] someone asked me something along the lines of, well, who defines these rules, which is
[01:53:28] basically what you just asked me.
[01:53:30] And I think it actually, there is an answer to who defines these rules in warfare.
[01:53:33] It's the law of armed conflict.
[01:53:34] It's like a Geneva convention.
[01:53:36] We follow those laws.
[01:53:37] Right.
[01:53:38] They're very clearly defined what you can and can't do.
[01:53:39] That's it.
[01:53:40] Next question.
[01:53:41] Yeah.
[01:53:42] And I mean, unless you straight up disagree with the Geneva convention, you know, and
[01:53:46] because of your personal moral code, but as long as you have again, a standard that you're
[01:53:50] going by that'll reduce the gray areas by a lot.
[01:53:53] And still, we're going to be there, but it's easier to operate in black and white when
[01:53:58] you have standards.
[01:53:59] And it won't always be easy, but, you know, it's like, well, let me, let me, let me,
[01:54:03] let me do this.
[01:54:04] This, this, when we start getting in the gray area, and you're sitting here saying,
[01:54:06] that I'm all black and white, and that's, I'm actually saying that.
[01:54:09] Like, okay, I want you across this line.
[01:54:10] But guess what?
[01:54:11] Those lines can get blurry too.
[01:54:13] Yeah, because I heard about a guy that was on a documentary who is, he was, he was
[01:54:19] a Western journalist of some kind, and I got to watch this documentary, I'm sure someone
[01:54:23] will tell us what it is.
[01:54:24] But somebody else told me about it.
[01:54:25] The Western journalist, he's embedded with insurgence in Iraq.
[01:54:33] And he's filming.
[01:54:34] And we're going out in attacking coalition forces.
[01:54:37] Yeah.
[01:54:38] Right.
[01:54:39] And I guess he was, while he's doing it, you know, he's trying to get a story
[01:54:42] and do his job, but then all of a sudden they're attacking coalition forces, right?
[01:54:46] Now there's a gray area.
[01:54:47] Now let's say, if you want to take that example to the extreme, if we're in a fire
[01:54:52] fight, and I see a guy with a camera who's wearing a press badge following an insurgent.
[01:54:58] Right.
[01:54:59] I mean, I think I'm going to work out good for him.
[01:55:02] Because it's not like I'm going to say, okay, well, you know, he's clearly with insurgents.
[01:55:06] But what I'm saying is that's, that's one example of many that that you could get into,
[01:55:12] where also another thing that happened in Iraq a lot was people change sides.
[01:55:16] And then went from supporting the terrorist, to supporting the coalition, and then back
[01:55:19] again, and then back again.
[01:55:21] So how do you balance those?
[01:55:26] And I'll tell you how I balance them was how can we achieve our mission?
[01:55:31] And that sounds like one of those, hey, mission focus.
[01:55:34] But it's true.
[01:55:35] I look at, okay, this guy, you know, a year ago was being targeted by coalition forces
[01:55:41] for being a bad guy.
[01:55:43] Now he has changed course.
[01:55:46] So what am I supposed to do?
[01:55:47] Still prosecute him?
[01:55:48] Or is he going to help us achieve our mission of overall victory?
[01:55:50] I guess what I'm going to do?
[01:55:52] I'm going to cut him some moral slack because we're going to win.
[01:55:57] So those are hard things to.
[01:55:59] But that's exactly what I mean.
[01:56:00] They'll see the standard in your case became the overall mission.
[01:56:06] Yes.
[01:56:07] So you know, you have that saying it's not like just some guy floating down the road
[01:56:09] through life being like, I don't feel good about that right there.
[01:56:12] So I feel this way.
[01:56:13] So I'm going to do it.
[01:56:14] It's not that it's like the standard very concrete attached to it.
[01:56:17] Still great areas.
[01:56:18] Gunny emerged, but like I said, it just reduces that great area.
[01:56:20] Yep.
[01:56:21] And then the bottom line is, this is why leadership is hard.
[01:56:26] Yes.
[01:56:27] So the whole idea of leadership, whether it's in combat or whether it's in the business
[01:56:31] world or whether it's part of a team or whether it's part of a family or whether it's
[01:56:34] in a concentration camp or whether it's in a prisoner of war camp.
[01:56:38] Leadership is hard.
[01:56:39] There's gray areas like when Captain Plum was saying, hey, he got told an order, you
[01:56:45] know, make communications with this guy at all costs.
[01:56:49] At all costs.
[01:56:50] That means I'm going to get beaten and tortured and died by the guards to get this guy
[01:56:54] this piece of communication.
[01:56:55] Is he going to follow that?
[01:56:57] Yes.
[01:56:58] No.
[01:56:59] He had to make a judgment.
[01:57:00] And so you know what, though that doesn't make sense.
[01:57:03] That doesn't make sense.
[01:57:04] So this gray area that went outside the bounds of the gray area.
[01:57:07] And he said, no, I'll do my best.
[01:57:09] I understand that it's critical, but I'm going to stay within me staying alive.
[01:57:16] Right?
[01:57:17] So that is what makes leadership hard.
[01:57:20] Is you have to constantly make these decisions where there's their gray area and you're
[01:57:25] doing your best.
[01:57:26] And that's, that's again, to me it was always, I love that.
[01:57:30] I love that about leadership.
[01:57:32] I love weighing those decisions out.
[01:57:34] And I love discussing them with my guys up and down the chain of command and saying, hey,
[01:57:37] here's where we're at.
[01:57:38] Let me tell you exactly where we're at.
[01:57:39] You know, I'll use life.
[01:57:41] I'll be, you know, life here's what's going on.
[01:57:43] This is the situation.
[01:57:44] What do you think?
[01:57:45] Yeah.
[01:57:46] Well, I think that's okay.
[01:57:47] That's a good point.
[01:57:48] But did you think about that?
[01:57:49] Oh, that's a good one.
[01:57:50] You know what I mean?
[01:57:51] We're going to have those conversations.
[01:57:52] And I had never had any problem opening my mind up to these various opinions that people had.
[01:57:56] And I think as a leader, that's a huge piece of building trust up and down the chain of
[01:58:03] command is when you have an open mind to discuss things with people.
[01:58:06] And that also double gravitational pull echo Charles helps you build the relationship.
[01:58:12] Yeah.
[01:58:13] Helps you build the relationship and helps you say, oh, you know what?
[01:58:15] Like, what's the minute I'm in there and I'm talking to him like, hey, I got we got
[01:58:18] a gray area here.
[01:58:19] You know, we got a customer that is threatening to put us on the help, but we didn't do
[01:58:24] anything wrong.
[01:58:25] How do you think we should handle it?
[01:58:27] Okay.
[01:58:28] Well, you think we should just tell him, go ahead and put it on Yelp.
[01:58:32] We don't care and we'll go to Yelp and we'll talk to him.
[01:58:35] That might be the good answer.
[01:58:36] But also it might be good to say, bro, wait, why are you so mad?
[01:58:40] Customer?
[01:58:41] Let's talk.
[01:58:42] Hey, we want to refund you.
[01:58:43] We want to take care of you because our customers are important to us.
[01:58:46] Maybe you'll give us a positive thing on you.
[01:58:47] You know what I'm saying?
[01:58:48] There's all this gray area.
[01:58:49] Yeah.
[01:58:50] And if you have an open mind to discuss things with your team.
[01:58:53] Open down the chain of command.
[01:58:55] You know what you'll do is you'll get in that gray area.
[01:58:58] You'll start to get clarity.
[01:59:00] You'll start to get clarity and you'll start to see better.
[01:59:03] And you can move through the gray area without being without being so decisive that in a gray
[01:59:12] area, you don't know if it's black or white, right?
[01:59:14] So if you decide as the leader, I'm going black.
[01:59:18] Going black.
[01:59:19] Then when the gray area clears up, it was white that you should have gone with.
[01:59:22] Yeah.
[01:59:23] You don't need to do that.
[01:59:24] In many cases, you can say, okay, I'm going to lean a little bit towards the black
[01:59:27] because that's what I'm feeling.
[01:59:28] And then all of a sudden you start moving there and you start seeing that, no, this
[01:59:30] is going to be a white decision.
[01:59:32] Yeah.
[01:59:33] Okay, I can recover from that.
[01:59:34] I can move backwards and repair what decision was made.
[01:59:38] And the best way to do that is say, hey, guys, here's the situation.
[01:59:42] I thought that black was going to be the right decision.
[01:59:44] I started leaning in that direction.
[01:59:46] I was wrong.
[01:59:47] Now I see that white is the right answer and we're going with white.
[01:59:52] Does anyone have any questions about that?
[01:59:54] Does everyone understand why I did that?
[01:59:56] Oh, you don't understand why?
[01:59:57] Let me explain it to you.
[01:59:58] Here's what I thought.
[01:59:59] Here's what I saw.
[02:00:00] Next time, do you want me to wet contact you?
[02:00:02] So you could, that's what I'm talking about.
[02:00:03] And by the way, when I'm doing that, I'm building relationships with my team, which is
[02:00:06] what I want to do.
[02:00:08] I just was talking to leader the other day.
[02:00:10] And I told him and reiterated something.
[02:00:12] I'm saying, over and over again.
[02:00:14] But people that did things for me and the teams that were in the Army, the Marine Corps,
[02:00:19] in the SEAL teams, in my platoon, up and down the chain of command, doesn't matter.
[02:00:22] 99.9% of it.
[02:00:24] Wasn't because I had some kind of rank or privilege over them.
[02:00:28] It was always because I had a good relationship with people.
[02:00:31] And when you build that good relationship with people, that's what it's all about.
[02:00:34] Then they do things for you.
[02:00:36] And you know what?
[02:00:37] You do things for them, too.
[02:00:39] It's not a one way street that I'm talking about, because you won't build any relationships
[02:00:42] if you're building a one way street.
[02:00:43] No one's going to be your friend after you just take advantage of them over and over again.
[02:00:47] Like those people that call you only when they need something from you.
[02:00:51] Now I actually don't have a problem with that, because I don't communicate with a lot of people.
[02:00:56] I communicate on social media with a bunch of different people.
[02:01:00] They'll get you there too.
[02:01:01] But as far as, if, like, when one of my buddies calls me up and says, hey, I need this favor.
[02:01:06] I'm like, cool, on it.
[02:01:08] I haven't talked to him for nine months.
[02:01:10] He's only calling me because he needs something from me.
[02:01:12] Doesn't matter.
[02:01:13] People do that with me all the time and it's cool.
[02:01:15] Now it's in a big group of people.
[02:01:16] It's like six people in the world.
[02:01:20] And those same six people, they don't call the wish me happy birthday.
[02:01:22] They don't call them tell me, you know, Merry Christmas.
[02:01:27] They call me up and say, hey, I need this from you.
[02:01:30] Can you do it?
[02:01:31] I'm like, got it.
[02:01:32] No factor.
[02:01:33] Do you even have a birthday negative?
[02:01:35] I have a maybe factor in the day.
[02:01:37] So funny.
[02:01:39] I'm just trying to imagine someone calling you to wish you have a birthday.
[02:01:44] I mean, maybe like your wife was at awkward when I got in the civilian sector and people
[02:01:48] would be like, when's your birthday?
[02:01:50] I'm going to be like, why won't you?
[02:01:51] What are you talking about?
[02:01:52] Why are you trying to get my personal information?
[02:01:54] I'm going to attack you.
[02:01:55] Yeah.
[02:01:58] Hey, what's the inner you?
[02:02:00] No.
[02:02:01] You know, that's the thing.
[02:02:02] What was the other funny thing about the birthday deal?
[02:02:05] Well, that's a getting present.
[02:02:06] I'm not good with presents.
[02:02:08] Yeah, man.
[02:02:09] But don't get me any presents.
[02:02:10] Right.
[02:02:11] Because I don't want what you got me.
[02:02:12] Yeah.
[02:02:13] If I want something I already have to get it.
[02:02:15] Yeah.
[02:02:16] And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to be appreciated.
[02:02:19] There's a one gift that my wife got me one time.
[02:02:22] And I haven't, I've been thinking about why I haven't talked about this particular whole situation.
[02:02:27] And that's, there's a band called the white stripes.
[02:02:29] Sure.
[02:02:30] Light stripes.
[02:02:31] And the white stripes.
[02:02:32] Jack white, Meg white.
[02:02:34] The white stripes are awesome.
[02:02:36] They're an awesome band.
[02:02:38] And there's so many layers with the white stripes.
[02:02:41] The first of all, there's, I'll tell you two layers that I love about the white stripes.
[02:02:44] Number one, all their clothing, guitars, drums, keyboards, everything that they have on stage.
[02:02:53] And everything that they have on their record albums, everything that they have is either red, black, or white.
[02:02:59] On all the records since day one.
[02:03:01] That's number one.
[02:03:02] Number two, they only have three sounds in any other songs at any one time.
[02:03:11] So those three sounds could be drums, vocals, guitar.
[02:03:15] They could be drums, keyboards, vocals.
[02:03:18] They could be keyboards, guitar, vocals.
[02:03:21] But they only have three sounds at any one time.
[02:03:23] Vocals is one of the songs.
[02:03:24] Oh, this is one of the songs.
[02:03:25] Yeah.
[02:03:25] There's only two people in the band.
[02:03:27] Anyways, the white stripes is an awesome band.
[02:03:31] And my wife bought me tickets to go see the white stripes.
[02:03:35] Now, I didn't even think about.
[02:03:37] I never pay attention to when bands are playing or whatever.
[02:03:39] So my, I was, I was, I don't use this term very often, but I was overjoyed.
[02:03:45] That she got me tickets to the white stripes.
[02:03:48] I was so stoked.
[02:03:50] And then Meg White had some issues.
[02:03:54] And they canceled the whole tour and they never played again.
[02:03:56] They were like a couple weeks away from being in San Diego.
[02:03:59] Where I was going to go see the white stripes.
[02:04:00] So the question is, ultimately, ultimately,
[02:04:03] Grand scheme of things.
[02:04:04] Was that a good gift to give, Joko?
[02:04:06] That was an awesome gift to give me.
[02:04:08] So it was, it was the thought that counts in this case.
[02:04:11] It was a beautiful thought.
[02:04:13] And I was, and I couldn't believe she thought of it.
[02:04:16] Because normally it's like, oh, you got me a sweater from some story that I hate.
[02:04:20] No, I'm really hard to shop for.
[02:04:24] I'm really, if I want something, I have it.
[02:04:26] And I don't want that much.
[02:04:28] So it's like, oh, I want something I have it.
[02:04:30] Like once every 18 months, I want something.
[02:04:33] And then I get it.
[02:04:35] I'll get you like a new t-shirt or something. You wear that one.
[02:04:38] No, this t-shirt's fine. Don't get me a new one.
[02:04:40] This one works good.
[02:04:42] So, yeah, that's, yeah, it seems like a good gift.
[02:04:47] It's just going off on a tangent.
[02:04:49] I feel like you went off on a tangent.
[02:04:52] You know why? Because I was listening to the white stripes the other day.
[02:04:54] I was thinking, I never give the white stripes the props that they deserve.
[02:04:57] Yeah, I'm a jack white, the props that he deserves.
[02:05:00] As a singer songwriter.
[02:05:02] Aren't they brother and sister?
[02:05:03] They're not.
[02:05:04] They're not a big league.
[02:05:05] Allegedly.
[02:05:06] They were actually husband and wife.
[02:05:07] They got divorced, but they always claimed to be brother's sister.
[02:05:09] It's my little sister, Meg White.
[02:05:10] More like.
[02:05:11] Or this is my big sister.
[02:05:12] That's right.
[02:05:13] Yeah.
[02:05:13] It's what he always said.
[02:05:14] Thank you.
[02:05:15] It's good, man.
[02:05:16] Cool.
[02:05:17] Well, the original point was these crazy savage type people.
[02:05:22] Maybe normal people other than their crazy job.
[02:05:26] Yeah.
[02:05:27] And what's, and I'm, but I'm not saying so.
[02:05:29] It's cool.
[02:05:30] I'm not saying so.
[02:05:31] And this is your, your, your accountable for your actions.
[02:05:34] Yeah.
[02:05:35] You're going to say, well, cool.
[02:05:36] You are.
[02:05:37] Yeah.
[02:05:37] Yeah.
[02:05:38] And that's something from any leadership position.
[02:05:41] You need to be aware of.
[02:05:42] And when I say new leadership position, I mean, you as a front line trooper.
[02:05:45] Because if you as a front line trooper is getting told do something that you know as morally
[02:05:48] ethically or legally wrong and you still do it.
[02:05:50] It's on you sure you can point to finger and blame the higher ups and the higher
[02:05:53] ups should be burned to if they told you do something that was wrong.
[02:05:56] Yeah.
[02:05:57] But you need to be accountable for what you did.
[02:05:59] And that's all there is to it.
[02:06:00] Yeah.
[02:06:00] That's a rough tour.
[02:06:02] No one wants to play that game.
[02:06:04] The Nazis wanted to play that game.
[02:06:06] Oh, it's not mine.
[02:06:07] I was ordered to do this.
[02:06:08] Can't do that.
[02:06:09] Can't say that.
[02:06:10] Don't get that excuse.
[02:06:11] Yeah.
[02:06:12] You don't get the, I was a good person.
[02:06:13] And I took care of my kids.
[02:06:14] Even though I was shoving people into into a gas chamber.
[02:06:17] You don't get to play that game.
[02:06:18] No.
[02:06:19] Yeah, man.
[02:06:20] Too much.
[02:06:21] But there was a small little documentary on blind.
[02:06:23] I don't know.
[02:06:24] I don't watch the whole thing.
[02:06:25] But it was about the executioner in the middle east somewhere, you know,
[02:06:28] when these countries were, you know, he has his sword.
[02:06:31] Yep.
[02:06:32] And it's his job, you know, and he's just straight up executioner.
[02:06:35] Yeah.
[02:06:36] That's it.
[02:06:36] That's just his job.
[02:06:37] My dad's a job by the way.
[02:06:38] And he's like, yeah.
[02:06:39] It wasn't old school.
[02:06:40] Oh, it's on YouTube.
[02:06:41] Yeah.
[02:06:42] Like last week.
[02:06:43] Yeah.
[02:06:44] And there.
[02:06:44] But it's funny because the whole feel of the documentary was just real.
[02:06:47] Like, oh, yeah.
[02:06:48] This guy has a cool job.
[02:06:49] And he's like slicing people's heads off with great precision.
[02:06:52] And he's so good at his job.
[02:06:54] You know, here's his family.
[02:06:56] And they're loving, you know, and they're, you know, he's playing with his kids.
[02:06:59] It's like all this stuff.
[02:07:00] It's just weird, man.
[02:07:03] Anyway.
[02:07:04] Yeah.
[02:07:04] There's, there's,
[02:07:06] another culture.
[02:07:08] Yeah.
[02:07:09] It's weird.
[02:07:10] A lot of gray areas in that one too.
[02:07:12] But man.
[02:07:13] Indeed.
[02:07:14] Kind of.
[02:07:15] Anyway.
[02:07:16] Or not.
[02:07:17] I feel like we should go into the support.
[02:07:21] Yeah.
[02:07:22] We should go into the support.
[02:07:24] So support is one of those good things.
[02:07:26] Very dynamic.
[02:07:27] Supporting others supporting yourself.
[02:07:31] Supporting others and yourself, which is a separate category of support.
[02:07:35] My opinion.
[02:07:36] So there's yourself, others, and yourself.
[02:07:38] And others.
[02:07:39] That's not the category.
[02:07:41] When we talk about on it, we're talking about all three categories.
[02:07:44] Support yourself.
[02:07:45] By with supplementation.
[02:07:47] And we talk about supplementation all the time.
[02:07:49] But.
[02:07:50] You know, you talk about supplementation.
[02:07:52] Well, you're the one who turned it, turned me on to it.
[02:07:55] So actually some of it.
[02:07:58] I took Schumtech before you talk the before pre podcast.
[02:08:02] Pre podcast.
[02:08:03] I was on Schumtech.
[02:08:05] I was on Alpha Brain.
[02:08:06] Schumtech.
[02:08:09] I got my shipment of Alpha Brain pills.
[02:08:13] But back in, I had run out.
[02:08:15] And I was only had the instant.
[02:08:17] And so now like I said, what's nice about the pills is you got something.
[02:08:21] You got something coming to come to do the podcast.
[02:08:23] Guess what?
[02:08:24] Alpha Brain pills.
[02:08:25] And I might double up on the Alpha Brain if I think I got to really get my
[02:08:29] Gary.
[02:08:30] But it's good to have the the capsules.
[02:08:33] Yeah.
[02:08:34] As well.
[02:08:35] I dig in.
[02:08:36] But what's cool about the drink is it tastes good.
[02:08:38] And I, if you get the sweet tooth itch going and you want something sweet.
[02:08:42] And you get the peach.
[02:08:43] Yeah.
[02:08:44] The natural peach, not the spicy.
[02:08:46] The spicy has a different situation going on.
[02:08:48] The peach is just straight up like tasty.
[02:08:50] Like peach.
[02:08:51] Yeah.
[02:08:52] Peach.
[02:08:53] Peach.
[02:08:54] Yeah.
[02:08:55] Kind of like that.
[02:08:56] I dig it the pills.
[02:08:58] I dig it.
[02:08:59] And that's actually what we had.
[02:09:01] Was the pills.
[02:09:02] I said, we, because me and my brother were.
[02:09:05] Alpha Brain.
[02:09:06] But when they came out with the instant that was better.
[02:09:08] And it starts to become like this little kind of ritual.
[02:09:10] You know, you mix up your Alpha Brain.
[02:09:12] You know, kind of thing.
[02:09:13] And it's instant.
[02:09:14] I don't know.
[02:09:15] Just seems like either way it doesn't matter.
[02:09:17] If I haven't mentioned it already, I think I did.
[02:09:19] These are supplements from on it on it.
[02:09:22] On it.com.
[02:09:23] We talked about the supplements.
[02:09:25] But there's like workout side.
[02:09:27] I just bought a jump rope.
[02:09:28] Did you?
[02:09:29] Yeah.
[02:09:30] See.
[02:09:31] So when I was young, I was good at jumping rope too.
[02:09:34] Yeah.
[02:09:35] And then as I, you know, as I think kind of when, when, I don't
[02:09:40] maybe early 20s kind of stopped.
[02:09:42] So that's long time ago.
[02:09:43] Jump rope is awesome.
[02:09:45] Yeah.
[02:09:46] So as in, you know, you know, how like writing a bike.
[02:09:48] You can stay good at something a little bit.
[02:09:50] You're rusty.
[02:09:51] You're rusty.
[02:09:52] Yeah.
[02:09:52] Definitely give me rusty.
[02:09:53] You can't shred.
[02:09:54] And can't go as long.
[02:09:55] You know, like that could stuff.
[02:09:56] It's weird because it, you know how jump rope is.
[02:09:58] You know what's your weirdest back in the day of boxing?
[02:10:00] And no.
[02:10:01] Yeah.
[02:10:02] Boxing jumping rope for three minutes was like no factor.
[02:10:04] Yeah.
[02:10:05] Go jump.
[02:10:06] Yeah.
[02:10:07] Go get your jump rope right out.
[02:10:08] Get out.
[02:10:09] Get out.
[02:10:10] Three minutes on the ground.
[02:10:11] You feel it.
[02:10:12] Yeah.
[02:10:13] So yeah.
[02:10:14] About one of those.
[02:10:15] And it's so the interesting thing about that is.
[02:10:17] Jump rope technology has changed a little bit.
[02:10:20] So what does it made of steel?
[02:10:21] No.
[02:10:22] Well, there's, I'm sure there's steel in there.
[02:10:24] So but it's like each handle has a swivel.
[02:10:26] The little, I mean it's simple.
[02:10:27] But there's like way more to it than before last time.
[02:10:30] It was like two wooden handles and a rope.
[02:10:32] Yeah.
[02:10:33] Yeah.
[02:10:34] For sure.
[02:10:34] Actual rope.
[02:10:35] This one is like a cord that survives all this stuff.
[02:10:37] I don't know.
[02:10:38] Anyway, got a jump rope.
[02:10:39] The jump rope is on there if you want.
[02:10:41] Well, we'll have a jump off.
[02:10:43] Yeah.
[02:10:44] I was pretty good too.
[02:10:45] You had to put your nerve through.
[02:10:47] You remember when you jump rope and then when the, you know how like, and this was like elementary school.
[02:10:53] And if you get tired or you couldn't keep a rhythm, they'd say, hey, just just wave it from the front.
[02:10:59] You know, that's an angel move.
[02:11:01] Yeah.
[02:11:02] What's it called when you to turn to taro, to taro when you boom.
[02:11:06] Like I like,
[02:11:09] Matador.
[02:11:10] Is it called Matador when you just go side to side?
[02:11:13] Yeah.
[02:11:16] You can't get it or whatever.
[02:11:18] Yeah.
[02:11:19] I just get that rhythm going.
[02:11:20] Oh, yeah.
[02:11:21] I don't know the name.
[02:11:22] I never had to do that because I was expert level.
[02:11:23] Even in elementary school, but that's going to be you if, in fact, you want to step up.
[02:11:28] So you can get that on on it, not just.
[02:11:30] If you want, if you want, kettle bells on there too.
[02:11:33] The good kind.
[02:11:34] Well, kettle bells are good straight out.
[02:11:36] They're all good.
[02:11:37] And, but it has those artistic ones.
[02:11:40] Yeah.
[02:11:41] The competition ones are very cool hands.
[02:11:43] Yeah.
[02:11:44] Oh, yeah.
[02:11:45] So yeah, you get the legend bells, which is like what?
[02:11:48] Cyclops.
[02:11:49] The wear wolf.
[02:11:50] Better look at them there.
[02:11:51] There dope.
[02:11:52] You know, primal bells, which is like all that, you know, primates and stuff.
[02:11:56] Yeah.
[02:11:57] I think I got the,
[02:11:59] Chimp two chimps and two wear wolves.
[02:12:02] Yes.
[02:12:03] Yeah.
[02:12:03] I have zombie bells.
[02:12:05] Mine are just eagles on base.
[02:12:06] How big is this on?
[02:12:07] Don't want you out.
[02:12:08] I forgot I got a lock.
[02:12:09] Yeah.
[02:12:10] So it's like designer.
[02:12:11] You can you probably keep it inside too.
[02:12:13] Yeah.
[02:12:14] No, that's that's it.
[02:12:15] You really do.
[02:12:16] No, the one that I keep inside is not the ones in my garage are for the long heavy work.
[02:12:21] This one is for, oh, I'm tired of writing right now.
[02:12:24] I'm going to bang out some snatches.
[02:12:26] Right.
[02:12:27] Boom.
[02:12:28] Boom.
[02:12:29] God.
[02:12:30] Feel a lot better now.
[02:12:31] Yeah.
[02:12:32] Right.
[02:12:33] Yeah.
[02:12:34] There you go.
[02:12:34] But yeah, this is anyway.
[02:12:35] The point there is there's very cool things on the website on it.com.
[02:12:39] And the supplements, it's not to mention this.
[02:12:42] The fact is the supplements are straight up the best ones straight up.
[02:12:47] Because from the beginning and how is this?
[02:12:50] And I don't know if we already mentioned this, but I hear it all.
[02:12:54] I do.
[02:12:55] I don't know if we already mentioned this, but I hear it all.
[02:12:55] I do.
[02:12:56] I don't know if we already mentioned this, but I hear it all.
[02:12:58] I do.
[02:12:59] I listen to Joel Rogan all the time and he says these things.
[02:13:02] And I believe him.
[02:13:04] If you get like, I don't know.
[02:13:06] Shroom tech.
[02:13:07] Yeah.
[02:13:08] I don't even feel it.
[02:13:09] I got tapped out.
[02:13:10] So, you know, I expect more out of Shroom tech.
[02:13:12] I expect this to make me tap out everybody.
[02:13:14] I don't like it.
[02:13:15] Send it back.
[02:13:16] No, you don't even send it back.
[02:13:18] You send them an email.
[02:13:19] Saying hey, I don't like this.
[02:13:20] I'll just send you money back.
[02:13:21] You don't have to send it back.
[02:13:22] That's pretty awesome then.
[02:13:24] Yep.
[02:13:25] But don't be trying to be like, you're going to give me my money back.
[02:13:28] And the next month after you're done with it, order some more.
[02:13:31] And then do it again.
[02:13:32] Don't do it again.
[02:13:33] Yeah.
[02:13:34] You're going to get ostracized nonetheless.
[02:13:36] Crill oil.
[02:13:37] That's the one you don't want to not have crill oil.
[02:13:39] Even if you're like a young guy in my opinion, which I should always been on crill oil.
[02:13:44] Yeah.
[02:13:45] And if you're not on crill oil, I think you are like a step behind joint wise.
[02:13:49] Which puts you behind a lot of different ways.
[02:13:52] A lot of different ways.
[02:13:53] Yeah, you didn't work and out as hard.
[02:13:54] And I was working on this hard.
[02:13:56] A struggling through various activities in everyday life.
[02:13:59] I told this story whatever, but I do it all the time.
[02:14:02] You know, when you fill up water in the big five gallon jugs.
[02:14:05] And you know, and Brad, do that at night when it's kind of cold.
[02:14:08] It's like, break your carry those things from the thing to your car.
[02:14:11] You don't want to be worried about my knees or whatever.
[02:14:15] You're back.
[02:14:16] The trials.
[02:14:17] You shouldn't be like that.
[02:14:18] And you've got to put it in there.
[02:14:19] You think I should write your own book, dude?
[02:14:22] What about like the kind of crazy trials you've been through, carrying water?
[02:14:26] I'll look cool night in Southern California.
[02:14:29] I know.
[02:14:30] You know, very fresh and pure water, by the way.
[02:14:35] Doesn't make it lighter though.
[02:14:36] You still have to struggle.
[02:14:37] But here's the thing, though.
[02:14:39] There are micro, they're called micro struggles.
[02:14:42] It's really what they are.
[02:14:43] You know, standing in line.
[02:14:45] Actually, in the same kind of thing, that's not a struggle.
[02:14:47] That's manufactured struggle.
[02:14:48] So it's like an exercise in discipline and embracing struggle.
[02:14:52] That's what it is.
[02:14:53] It's not an actual struggle bestowed upon your heap on your shoulders.
[02:14:57] You know, they have to bear in everyday life.
[02:14:59] That's not what's the standing in line.
[02:15:01] That's why if you need your book about echoes struggles.
[02:15:04] You can document these various.
[02:15:07] Me looking for a specific wine.
[02:15:10] That's why.
[02:15:11] Was there a tomato one?
[02:15:12] Two likes.
[02:15:13] We're going to tomato sauce.
[02:15:14] I went.
[02:15:15] Yes.
[02:15:16] Yeah, it's a tomato struggle.
[02:15:18] The wine struggle.
[02:15:19] The groceries now.
[02:15:20] We got the fill in the water bottles.
[02:15:21] There's four chapters.
[02:15:22] My micro struggles.
[02:15:23] Yeah.
[02:15:23] And filling up the water is not a struggle because I'm on the
[02:15:26] real oil. Oh, Omega 3 is fighting to my joint.
[02:15:29] Straight into my joints.
[02:15:30] Uptake.
[02:15:31] High percentage uptake.
[02:15:33] Anyway, get on the cruel oil.
[02:15:36] I'm on the strong bone now, too.
[02:15:37] By the way, for that's for tendons.
[02:15:41] The tendon attaching to the bone.
[02:15:44] Strong TM does it.
[02:15:46] It does it about it.
[02:15:47] I feel really good about it actually.
[02:15:49] More preventative because I lift.
[02:15:52] Yeah.
[02:15:53] Nonetheless,
[02:15:54] Strong TM that's in strong bone.
[02:15:56] That get doesn't.
[02:15:57] That doesn't hit the like the limelight isn't on that all the time.
[02:16:00] It's all on calcium most of the time.
[02:16:01] I'm like calcium.
[02:16:02] It makes your bone strong.
[02:16:03] Strong TM just as much.
[02:16:05] So get on the strong bone.
[02:16:08] A bone strength.
[02:16:10] Also.
[02:16:12] Offer brain.
[02:16:13] Obviously, shrimp tech for high performance.
[02:16:15] Go on the website.
[02:16:16] Whatever you need, they got it.
[02:16:17] They even got like a try bland peanut butter.
[02:16:21] Not butter.
[02:16:22] It's not peanut butter.
[02:16:23] It's like almond cashew and walnut.
[02:16:26] Don't know.
[02:16:27] Anyway, still dish.
[02:16:28] Get on the own.
[02:16:29] Anyway, on it.
[02:16:30] Dock-off.
[02:16:31] Slash-Jockel.
[02:16:32] If you want 10% off.
[02:16:34] Pay full price.
[02:16:36] That's up to you.
[02:16:37] Really?
[02:16:38] You haven't seen?
[02:16:40] I wouldn't recommend it.
[02:16:41] I don't even know if anyone would recommend that.
[02:16:45] Also, good way to support.
[02:16:48] If you're interested in the book.
[02:16:52] Man search for meaning, Victor Franco.
[02:17:00] What I have done is I put on the website a page with all of the books.
[02:17:07] All of them.
[02:17:08] That Jocqu's covered.
[02:17:11] Everyone's a well-jocqua-covered article.
[02:17:13] The links may be all do that.
[02:17:15] But nonetheless, the books are all on there.
[02:17:17] All in order, too, by the way.
[02:17:18] So the most recent is going to be at the top.
[02:17:20] This one will be on there. It is on there.
[02:17:22] If you want to support, click on there.
[02:17:25] If you're going to get the book, click through there.
[02:17:28] Directs you straight to Amazon.
[02:17:30] What if you're doing other shopping?
[02:17:32] Hey, man. Go ahead. Do the same thing.
[02:17:34] Click on it. We have a banner on the front page, too.
[02:17:36] And then you can click on there.
[02:17:38] Yeah? And then you can do shopping.
[02:17:39] Yeah, if you want.
[02:17:40] That sounds like a good plan.
[02:17:41] Even if you buy and don't take.
[02:17:44] Also, do you have a link to your favorite duct tape on there?
[02:17:48] No.
[02:17:49] Sometimes I say things that are just so inherently brilliant.
[02:17:53] And that's what we wonder.
[02:17:54] So we will have a duct tape link.
[02:17:58] Link for sure.
[02:17:59] Yeah, just in case everyone needs duct tape.
[02:18:02] And they especially need it when they get the most of the podcasts
[02:18:05] or they're thinking about the things that they're going to be duct-caping together.
[02:18:08] Yeah.
[02:18:09] Yeah, that's true.
[02:18:10] You know why I mentioned duct tape in the beginning?
[02:18:12] And I didn't really realize this because I didn't think about it
[02:18:15] until the handful of people asked me.
[02:18:18] You know why?
[02:18:19] Because he's watching the guy relevant time.
[02:18:21] Actually, I still watch my guy right now.
[02:18:22] That's a strange thing.
[02:18:24] No, no, no.
[02:18:25] It's on the channel called Clue.
[02:18:27] CLO, oh, random channel.
[02:18:30] Yeah.
[02:18:31] It's like a retro channel kind of.
[02:18:33] Okay.
[02:18:34] Okay, for a man.
[02:18:35] No, it says that.
[02:18:36] Well, there's a new guy right by the way.
[02:18:38] A new one.
[02:18:39] Which lame?
[02:18:39] I don't think it says good as a old one, but it could be just my,
[02:18:41] you know how you get attached to your old shows.
[02:18:44] It could be that.
[02:18:45] But my guy, we was dope back in the day.
[02:18:47] So, you know, whichever.
[02:18:48] And that was this thing.
[02:18:49] Duck tape.
[02:18:50] People like to say, well, paper clip, right?
[02:18:52] My guy over with the paper, he, I never really had a paper clip.
[02:18:55] Really?
[02:18:56] He had duct tape.
[02:18:57] That was his thing.
[02:18:58] I know, sorry.
[02:18:59] I watched TV.
[02:19:00] All right, way.
[02:19:01] That's on you.
[02:19:02] And I dig it.
[02:19:03] But I was busy getting back after.
[02:19:04] He had the switch.
[02:19:05] Sorry, man.
[02:19:06] And the duct tape.
[02:19:07] That was his thing.
[02:19:08] Everything else he just found in his environment is environment, which
[02:19:10] changed from episode to episode.
[02:19:12] On the last.
[02:19:13] Subscribe to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play.
[02:19:16] All these platforms that provide podcasts.
[02:19:19] We're on all of them.
[02:19:20] Boom, subscribe, which everyone you use.
[02:19:23] I mean, if he's two, I guess, right?
[02:19:25] And then, do people use two platforms?
[02:19:27] Why did I do that today?
[02:19:29] There's some reason I had to go to a different platform.
[02:19:33] So, I have a backup platform.
[02:19:36] Boom, subscribe to both.
[02:19:37] Yeah.
[02:19:38] Right.
[02:19:39] Is that kind of like YouTube and Vimeo?
[02:19:41] You know, some guys who have a Vimeo account as well.
[02:19:43] I don't know why that got escalated.
[02:19:45] It's good.
[02:19:46] YouTube.
[02:19:47] Bad video.
[02:19:48] I'll tell you what.
[02:19:49] I don't know why, but this could be the reason why because YouTube.
[02:19:52] Okay.
[02:19:53] Vimeo is kind of for like professional people who fancy themselves as like film makers.
[02:19:58] Right.
[02:19:59] This is my piece that I've made in artists.
[02:20:01] It tends to be that.
[02:20:02] Right.
[02:20:03] YouTube is just like, guys, you just kind of have to.
[02:20:06] But overall, yeah, exactly right.
[02:20:07] Just throw my video.
[02:20:08] YouTube, like, you know, the tube, TV, to you.
[02:20:11] Whatever you are.
[02:20:13] Vimeo is, I don't know, the name.
[02:20:14] I guess I can think about it.
[02:20:15] But nonetheless, that's what it shook itself out to beat.
[02:20:19] You know, so it's funny when people are like, I'm not on YouTube.
[02:20:22] I'm on Vimeo.
[02:20:23] I'm on my wrist.
[02:20:24] Yeah.
[02:20:25] Do you have to do anything to be on Vimeo or you're just still something to do?
[02:20:29] No.
[02:20:30] Same exact thing.
[02:20:31] It's exactly like YouTube except for the fact, which now that I'm thinking about it makes sense,
[02:20:35] where if you upload a video and you're like, oh man, in one of these titles midway through the video,
[02:20:40] I spelt it wrong.
[02:20:41] Which happens to me sometimes.
[02:20:43] You can go back into your account and replace the video, even if it's been up for a week.
[02:20:48] You can just replace or you too.
[02:20:49] Vimeo, YouTube, you cannot.
[02:20:51] Yes, a new video.
[02:20:52] Yeah.
[02:20:53] So you got to upload again.
[02:20:54] And here's the thing.
[02:20:55] You can't upload the same file.
[02:20:57] Got to rename it.
[02:20:58] Because YouTube, no, you got to re-eat it.
[02:21:00] It has all these little information in the file.
[02:21:02] They'll be like, hey, that's a duplicate file.
[02:21:04] You can't do that.
[02:21:05] You know, probably had something to do with advertising.
[02:21:08] I don't know.
[02:21:09] Nonetheless, subscribe to Jockel Podcast on YouTube.
[02:21:12] If you like that channel, we're trying to provide what you call providing value.
[02:21:17] You know, that's, don't say that.
[02:21:19] But that's another, it sounded cool when I first heard it.
[02:21:23] But it's another, that's another, it's a new, like,
[02:21:28] that's another one of those things where it sounded cool.
[02:21:31] And then everyone thought like me or I think like everyone else, whatever.
[02:21:35] And so everyone started using it now.
[02:21:37] It's like people are abusing it.
[02:21:38] And maybe here, just trying to provide value.
[02:21:40] It just starts to sound like that.
[02:21:43] You know, good voice, you just have to think, you know, we don't do voices.
[02:21:45] Other than exclamation.
[02:21:48] Thanks, Jockel.
[02:21:50] Anyway, subscribe to YouTube.
[02:21:52] We're trying to provide some value there with the excerpts and various other clips.
[02:21:58] Aside from the video version of this podcast, you're Memorial Day 1.
[02:22:03] It was really good.
[02:22:04] I liked it.
[02:22:05] It was a powerful, powerful letter.
[02:22:07] Yeah.
[02:22:12] Bunch of other stuff.
[02:22:13] Um, like.
[02:22:17] Jockel has a store.
[02:22:19] It's called Jockel Store.
[02:22:21] If you didn't know already, no.
[02:22:22] Jockelstore.com.
[02:22:23] What do we have in Jockel Store?
[02:22:24] We have T-shirts.
[02:22:26] If you were to show it to Jockel, also as a podcast.
[02:22:28] Sure.
[02:22:29] Jockel.
[02:22:30] Jockel has white tea.
[02:22:31] It's called Jockel White Tea.
[02:22:32] Yeah, I think I see a trend here.
[02:22:34] Yeah.
[02:22:35] Yeah, the trend is real.
[02:22:36] Yeah, sure.
[02:22:37] Um, nonetheless, the shit.
[02:22:39] A virginality and name.
[02:22:40] Well, no.
[02:22:42] Yeah.
[02:22:43] So in a way, because here, there are layers in that too.
[02:22:46] And there is sophistication to that even though it seems simple.
[02:22:49] Oh, because.
[02:22:50] There I was being sophisticated.
[02:22:52] You are being something out of it.
[02:22:53] Because there's more to Jockel than just, oh, yeah.
[02:22:55] That just happens to be my name.
[02:22:57] There's two.
[02:22:58] There's more to that goes beyond this podcast beyond the TV.
[02:23:00] Whatever.
[02:23:01] Right.
[02:23:02] Okay.
[02:23:03] So just let's just start with that fact, which is complex in and of itself.
[02:23:05] Then you're like, okay.
[02:23:07] Look, this is what roughly considered a company.
[02:23:12] Technically.
[02:23:13] Maybe.
[02:23:14] I guess if you had to.
[02:23:15] If you had to.
[02:23:16] Okay.
[02:23:17] That's me.
[02:23:17] Okay.
[02:23:18] What do I do?
[02:23:19] Like for a living.
[02:23:20] And I was like, I was like, oh, just like stuff.
[02:23:24] Yeah.
[02:23:25] And he goes, well, what would you?
[02:23:26] How would you, what he said?
[02:23:27] He said, well, how would you describe what you do?
[02:23:32] And I said, stay busy.
[02:23:35] That's what I do.
[02:23:36] Yeah.
[02:23:37] Okay.
[02:23:38] Fair enough.
[02:23:39] Yeah.
[02:23:40] There you go.
[02:23:42] But technically, because bar is.
[02:23:44] I've never heard that one in a while.
[02:23:46] Good.
[02:23:48] Jockelpot.cast.com.
[02:23:50] That's an entity.
[02:23:51] I don't know.
[02:23:52] Company business.
[02:23:53] It's a place where we have the web.
[02:23:56] It's not.
[02:23:57] Nonetheless, oh, you know what?
[02:23:58] I'm going to go ahead and out on a limb and call it a brand.
[02:24:01] It's brand-dish.
[02:24:02] Whatever.
[02:24:03] Nonetheless, if you call, okay, well, Jockel store, that's the name of the store.
[02:24:08] Yeah.
[02:24:09] Well, that's true.
[02:24:10] So, and to be honest with you, the reason that I called the podcast, Jockelpotcast,
[02:24:14] when I was on Tim Ferriss's podcast, I said, Jockel Hungry.
[02:24:17] I don't even know.
[02:24:18] I don't know if I just said, I don't know if it's on the podcast or not.
[02:24:21] But he, I think he says, oh, you know, we got to go to get some food.
[02:24:24] And I was like, Jockel Hungry.
[02:24:25] And then I was like, well, we're going to do a podcast record.
[02:24:27] Jockelpotcast.
[02:24:28] But that was the initial thought.
[02:24:30] There's the layer.
[02:24:31] Makes sense.
[02:24:32] Yeah.
[02:24:33] And that's it.
[02:24:34] But even with naming the other words, I wanted to be able to do whatever I wanted to do
[02:24:39] and not care.
[02:24:41] Yeah.
[02:24:42] And that makes sense.
[02:24:43] I knew we were going to talk about Jockelpot and fighting in music and in hardcore and war and death.
[02:24:48] And I just wanted to not have any limitations.
[02:24:52] And the only way I could do that, because if you can give the podcast a name like, you know,
[02:24:57] the, the, the, the, this podcast.
[02:25:00] Yeah.
[02:25:01] It's like, okay, well, then what I'm next to you know, we're talking about war and or if you call it the war podcast,
[02:25:07] but you're talking about business or if you don't talk about the leadership podcast, but you're talking about
[02:25:11] Jiu-Jitsu.
[02:25:12] So how do you get all those things into one thing?
[02:25:14] Call the Jockelpotcast and I can do whatever I want.
[02:25:16] Yeah.
[02:25:17] There you go.
[02:25:18] And if people are looking for you, they see you talk about XYZ or like, you know, I sure I can look up.
[02:25:22] XYZ.
[02:25:23] Easy connection.
[02:25:24] Yeah.
[02:25:25] And it's simple.
[02:25:26] You know, simply goes along with.
[02:25:27] Yeah, you know, and that's kind of like a thing.
[02:25:29] So why are we talking about this?
[02:25:30] I'm just saying that's what it's called Jockelpotto.
[02:25:32] Oh, yeah, that's right.
[02:25:33] So because it is a story.
[02:25:34] You know, people want to do other things in their life.
[02:25:36] Besides, listen to our ancestors.
[02:25:38] Well, you're the one chiming in.
[02:25:39] And over here, don't talk about that.
[02:25:41] I should've noticed that the other day when we had Roger Hayden on, and I gave you the silent treatment.
[02:25:46] And when you looked at me for affirmation while you were giving the advertising,
[02:25:50] I didn't even nod.
[02:25:51] I just looked at you and you got, you actually got uncomfortable.
[02:25:55] Yeah, you actually got uncomfortable.
[02:25:57] You were like, maybe you look on your face.
[02:25:59] Like, well, you look at me like I was going to give you a smile.
[02:26:02] I know, I just look at you like hurry up.
[02:26:04] And then you got uncomfortable.
[02:26:06] And I said, well, he's starting to feel it.
[02:26:08] Yeah, if you know, it works.
[02:26:09] Yeah, that's like subtle.
[02:26:11] Sure.
[02:26:12] You know, man.
[02:26:13] It's all good.
[02:26:14] You know, so do that again right now.
[02:26:16] You know, so I can talk about the story.
[02:26:18] Jockels story.
[02:26:19] Jockels story.com.
[02:26:20] If you like t-shirts.
[02:26:21] No, I'm not saying if you like t-shirts in general.
[02:26:24] I'm just saying, if you want to represent this clinical freedom,
[02:26:28] what get after it.
[02:26:29] No, the darkness.
[02:26:32] No, the darkness.
[02:26:33] That's a good one.
[02:26:35] You know, anyway, go on the search.
[02:26:38] Jockels story.com.
[02:26:39] You can see shirts if you like them.
[02:26:41] Go ahead and get one support.
[02:26:43] That's a good one.
[02:26:44] I've got some rash cards on there.
[02:26:45] One new rash card out already says get after it on it.
[02:26:48] Discipline on one sleeve.
[02:26:50] Freedom on the other sleeve.
[02:26:51] Jockel approved.
[02:26:52] Really good.
[02:26:53] I think it's good.
[02:26:55] I feel that the people who have witnessed it.
[02:27:00] Is that pompous to say, witness it?
[02:27:02] Like do some kind of a little bit of a lot.
[02:27:05] Yeah, maybe you know a lot.
[02:27:06] Anyone that's witnessed my rash card.
[02:27:09] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:27:10] That I bestowed upon them by way of visual.
[02:27:13] How about people that thought it was a little pretty cool.
[02:27:16] That was cool.
[02:27:17] That was really cool.
[02:27:18] That was cool.
[02:27:19] And so there it is.
[02:27:20] You go on the story.
[02:27:21] Look at him.
[02:27:22] If you think it's cool, you're going to want to witness the glory of echo Charles's rash cards.
[02:27:28] You may go to jockelstore.com and revel in the glory.
[02:27:35] Exactly right.
[02:27:37] And whatever else you want, this is good stuff on there.
[02:27:39] We added this little thing to if we're out.
[02:27:41] And I'm sure they'd like, I'm kind of treestock, you know, re-stock.
[02:27:44] Boom.
[02:27:45] But I added this little thing where if like let's say the size medium or whatever is out,
[02:27:51] it just says, oh, a little button.
[02:27:53] Notify me.
[02:27:54] But your email boom.
[02:27:55] Notify as you when it's back in stock.
[02:27:56] And again, I'm trying to put them back in stock.
[02:27:59] Ace app.
[02:28:00] Boom.
[02:28:01] But, you know, give me a day or two or whatever.
[02:28:03] I'll notify you.
[02:28:05] Boom.
[02:28:06] Also psychological warfare.
[02:28:10] If you didn't know what that is, it's an album with tracks.
[02:28:14] Come on.
[02:28:15] Not music tracks.
[02:28:17] Word tracks.
[02:28:19] It's like spoken word.
[02:28:22] You know, so basically what it's for is, you know, it's not like poetry.
[02:28:25] Well, arguably not poetry, but Stockholm.
[02:28:28] They're talking.
[02:28:29] Talking to us to me.
[02:28:31] Joc was talking to me.
[02:28:33] That actually quite literally was talking to you when that was made.
[02:28:36] Exactly right.
[02:28:37] So, you know, you can have me talk to you.
[02:28:39] So basically what it's for is he's not just talking.
[02:28:42] Every day stuff.
[02:28:43] So when you have hard time waking up in the morning or you have hard time because you're tired
[02:28:47] and you want to skip the workout or you have hard time because, you know, it's lunchtime
[02:28:51] and I'm all hungry and all they have is donuts here or whatever.
[02:28:55] What else is there?
[02:28:56] What if you're procrastinating?
[02:28:58] Also, if you're procrastinating or what do you call it?
[02:29:01] What if you're procrastinating?
[02:29:02] What if you're procrastinating?
[02:29:03] The podcast.
[02:29:04] Maybe you could listen to that one right now.
[02:29:07] We did.
[02:29:08] I'm trying to explain this thoroughly.
[02:29:10] So we can all have a really good understanding of what it is.
[02:29:14] And it's value.
[02:29:15] It's down over the moment.
[02:29:17] Me talking about moments of weakness so you can get through them.
[02:29:21] Yeah.
[02:29:22] Next comment.
[02:29:24] Yeah.
[02:29:25] I guess.
[02:29:26] Let me add this one more thing.
[02:29:28] Oh.
[02:29:29] Actually, you can even take it at moments of triumph and strength.
[02:29:33] And it will still work.
[02:29:35] You'll just want to do it more.
[02:29:37] You know?
[02:29:38] Yeah.
[02:29:39] It's like drinking coffee when you're not tired.
[02:29:41] You know what I mean?
[02:29:42] Yeah.
[02:29:43] Double down.
[02:29:44] That's sink in.
[02:29:45] It's like a lot of work.
[02:29:46] It's like a lot of work.
[02:29:47] Fair on iTunes.
[02:29:48] Amazon music.
[02:29:49] All these music.
[02:29:50] Google play.
[02:29:51] Google play.
[02:29:52] I think it's on everything.
[02:29:53] Cool.
[02:29:54] But yeah, man.
[02:29:55] Do it.
[02:29:56] Right on.
[02:29:57] All right.
[02:29:58] Also, you can get jacquo white tea on Amazon.
[02:29:59] And when you order jacquo white tea, make sure you also order more weights for your barbells.
[02:30:07] Because your deadlift is going to go up to approximately 8,000 pounds.
[02:30:11] So you need to get that much weights when you order it.
[02:30:14] Way the warrior kid.
[02:30:16] Book.
[02:30:17] It's been out for a couple weeks now.
[02:30:20] And thank you for getting it.
[02:30:23] Also, a little warning that someone put on Amazon in their review.
[02:30:30] I thought it was worth hearing and thinking about parents.
[02:30:33] Be ready.
[02:30:34] I bought this book after listening to jacquo on the Joe Rogan podcast where jacquo was the guest.
[02:30:37] Great podcast bought the book after learning jacquo has a book for kids.
[02:30:40] My son who isn't very motivated yet was excited about the book.
[02:30:45] When he started reading the book, a fire lit underneath him.
[02:30:48] He said to me, dad, I'm going to get up tomorrow at 5 a.m.
[02:30:51] Will you get up with me?
[02:30:53] And that moment I realized that I was going what was going on.
[02:30:57] And I couldn't let him down.
[02:30:59] I enjoy my sleep like everyone else.
[02:31:02] But I was amazed that my son got excited to order a pie.
[02:31:05] Yes, let's do it.
[02:31:06] Got up at 5 a.m.
[02:31:07] And there's a alarm clock must not have gone off, but I turned on his light and his bedroom.
[02:31:11] And he got right up.
[02:31:12] He got his clothes and shoes on and we went for a jog.
[02:31:15] We've never done this before.
[02:31:17] I had him do some sit ups and pushups after and he gladly did.
[02:31:21] Couldn't quite do pushups if that's okay.
[02:31:23] We'll get there.
[02:31:25] Long story short.
[02:31:26] This book only being a few chapters.
[02:31:28] And he only a few chapters in.
[02:31:29] That was kind of surprise.
[02:31:30] I saw that.
[02:31:31] Only a few chapters in.
[02:31:32] Made the book worth getting.
[02:31:34] In this day and age of electronics and iPads and tablets kids don't seem to be as motivated
[02:31:39] to do activities as when I was a kid.
[02:31:41] I'm 39.
[02:31:42] So I edified him after for making the decision to get up at 5 a.m.
[02:31:47] on a non school day.
[02:31:48] And I told him that he can apply that mentality to anything in life.
[02:31:52] Boom.
[02:31:53] Way the warrior kid.
[02:31:54] Get it for your kid.
[02:31:55] Be prepared to get yourself back in the game.
[02:31:58] Also discipline equals freedom field manual.
[02:32:01] The instructional manual for getting after it.
[02:32:04] If you'll free to pre order that one.
[02:32:07] Also extreme ownership combat leadership.
[02:32:10] Combat leadership and also combat leadership.
[02:32:14] That's what the book is about.
[02:32:16] How to apply the fundamental principles of combat leadership to your business and to your life.
[02:32:20] Also for more hands on experience you can call echelon front.
[02:32:25] Our leadership and management consulting company.
[02:32:29] Myself, Lave Babin, JP D'Nell, Dave Burke.
[02:32:34] You can contact us at info at echelon front.com.
[02:32:39] Also the master.
[02:32:41] Austin, Texas, July 13th and 14th at the Army Barton Creek Resort.
[02:32:47] No fluff.
[02:32:50] No.
[02:32:51] There's no fluff.
[02:32:52] Just pragmatic information you can act on immediately.
[02:32:58] You can literally in a break email your team and give instructions that's going to move them in the right direction.
[02:33:08] In the Austin, Master, there's only 300 seats.
[02:33:11] Smaller venue.
[02:33:13] It's going to sell out.
[02:33:16] So get online.
[02:33:19] Get registered.
[02:33:20] If you can't make it out, come to San Diego in September.
[02:33:22] September 14th and 15th for Master 004 will be their live.
[02:33:27] And while you're waiting for the master, if you need to communicate with us, you can find us on the interwebs, on Twitter or on Instagram, on that face Ebola.
[02:33:42] Echo is at echelon.
[02:33:44] The show is on the show.
[02:33:54] I'm at Jocca, willing.
[02:33:59] And to the military personnel out there holding the line, in places no one wants to be doing things that no one else wants to do.
[02:34:05] Thanks for keeping us free.
[02:34:08] To police, law enforcement, firefighters, EMTs and other first responders.
[02:34:13] Remember what human beings are capable of suffering through and remember that even in those situations.
[02:34:25] Where everything seems to be taken away, when you seem to have no choice at all in the world.
[02:34:34] Remember that you can still choose how you react to the things around you.
[02:34:42] You can still choose your attitude.
[02:34:47] And you can still choose to actualize the best person that you can be.
[02:34:57] In every aspect of your life, you can choose to get after it.
[02:35:07] So, until next time, this is Echo and Jocco.
[02:35:13] Out.