Jocko Podcast 75 w/ Echo Charles: Honesty, Discipline, & Fairness. "Conversations w/ Dick Winters"

2017-05-17T19:52:39Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 – Opening 0:03:19 – “Conversations With Dick Winters”, by Dick Winters. 0:06:26 – Dick Winters’s take on detaching the situation for a beneficial and accurate overview. 0:13:12 – Leadership: Discipline. 0:23:16 – Leadership: Honesty, Dependability, Fairness, and Presence. 1:43:49 – Understanding Others. 1:52:05 – Take-aways from Dick Winters. 2:00:47 – Closing: Life can be hard and beautiful. 2:19:16 – Support, Cool Onnit, Amazon, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko’s Kids’ Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster 003. 2:56:55 – Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

But with it felt like, and feels like with people like my soldiers, you know, there is a lot of room for like, because men, these are my brothers, you know, my guys, but let's say they're talking about like something else like a big one. You tell me, I personally think, let's say I've been giving some slack and people been showing up a little bit late, showing up a little bit late, and I'm kind of like, hey, man, you know, we need to be a little more in time and then finally on a Thursday, guys shows up late for the meeting, and I say, hey, you're suspended, you're grounded, you're, you know, you're going to work this weekend. Because you know if you're like naturally gifted or whatever at something you're in a way not like, like, I don't know what that's like. Like the bartenders that you so work with everyone's in a while, you'd have one and say well, I got this and you know, my bar and when they talk to the customers, you know, they're like hey, what kind of, I don't know, vodka do you have. or you just see the result in one way or Like these good like fighters or you know I don't know author like anyone doing absolutely so it's like, you know, like, let's say you open a Getsagee gym, and then, you know, you're teaching people, and then you're like, okay, You know you can't say like um hey I'm going to go see this concert and then afterwards I'm going to pick up guitar and play you know the solos with you know you're clapped in. It's kind of like when I was talking today about like, Hey, if you're a vet, you can't look at everyone like, Hey, this person's just, I had to be, I had to be like, okay, echo's not a bad person. Maybe like, oh, I've been letting people slack, so I got to make an example out of somebody to kind of re-establish the discipline kind of thing, or maybe, you know, as a boss or whatever, you really don't like this specific violation. Or if you have like with this procrastination situation, oh man, that's the main one that, you know, like, how you're always like, hey, I need to do this. So you know what it is like you know what that means you know. Like, you know, you know that they were like, okay, does vitamin C help? Well, you know, like when you brew tea, it's like, I don't know. So even if you like in your situation, if you're like, you know, someone's like, hey, Doc, where do you train? You know, where it's like, oh, yeah, you could be just a member, but at least you're part of that community, you know, kind of thing. That's why you're, you know, that's why party your morality is like, you know, fairness doing the right thing, all this discipline, stuff. You know, like even like slow and brushed in my teeth, like I do every week or whatever. Yeah, that's kind of like when I look at my old videos, you know, at the time, like, And then they tell my best vodka is, you know, this and that, then they'd say my, you know, kind of like I'm the master of this whole domain here, everything here is mine, and that I can bestow upon you kind of feeling. You know how like you get creative guys, but they don't have discipline or you get super disciplined guys, but they don't have creativity or you know. If you're down for it, sometimes people, you know, you put it on your T, let's say in your grud, you know, you're working out, where you're, you know, it's on the TV. But this guy who's a Master Chief when I met him, and he was telling me that when he, you know, at the seal team, you know, you PT in the morning, just like a sports team, you get to work and you work out. This is, when I'm thinking about it, this is just an amateur, you know, I was probably 22 years old, maybe 23 years old, but you know, young and immature and not getting the best guidance, not understanding things, not understanding that I wasn't helping build a cohesive unit, not understanding that this guy's probably thinking, oh, I don't want to help him. Hey, do you think that, you know, when people say, I'm going to make an example out of somebody, you know, for, sometimes it's for different reasons. It's obvious, you know, they call that the curse a knowledge, you know, home when you're, you're like so advanced in this one thing that you forget how it is to not be advanced. But yeah, like if you recommend a movie or something like that, and then mean while looking at the reviews, the reviews are like super good. I guess this is like a technology is kind of been around, but I didn't know because I had that plastic cup, you know, whatever. You know, the kind of like you put it in, but it was like kind of stuck. but I feel like it's, I mean, it's easy for you, you know, to be like, Yeah, it's you. And something happened, and we gave like a, like, a, like, hey guys, don't, don't ever make the putoon look bad. So you know how, you know, at home, you know, you have your cup. What I'm saying, you know how you say it, like you probably don't know about that because you don't have the curse of knowledge in regards to physical activity working out. And people that say that physical strength aren't good, he says, you know, I forget the exact quote, but he's basically saying, I, I know physical strength is good. Yeah and this is like like actually choking up the person you know Yeah, I always felt that a better way instead of saying my, one of the few things as far as feelings go because I, I, I, I experienced that a lot when people be like my, this and that, you know, and I see what you're doing. You know, but you're like, you just know better ways now. So, you know, like a football game or a movie or something that you're not doing to put you, you know, more forward on your path or whatever. You know, but at the same time, you, you, when I look back on it, I know I was not a good leader, right? You know, it's like, it's just this great event, you know. You know, you know that feeling where it's like dang. It's not like it's not like, hey, you're going to learn some stuff, but it's not going to be really applicable. It's like you're just the boss and the owner of all this kind of thing, you know, kind of thing. I don't want, you know, if if something was going to give you a bad reputation, like what we just talked about, if you fall out of a patrol as a leader or as anyone. Most times like if you go to like a you know And now I'm going to set the bar so high that I've lose track of the, lose vision of the fact that like, hey, the guy that I'm trying to convince right now is a 23 year old thing and the most important thing in his world is this is 20. It's like that thing that starting strength, coach, Rippato says, I, I post, I've never talked about it, but I posted, you know, He's talking about how physical strength is good. You know, like, you really like, I couldn't believe it. You know, and then they'll be like, but I'm glad it was like that. It was like maybe like 24 ounce, like big cup. And of course, there's, you know, there's exceptions here, but generally speaking, and plus you're talking about a little bit more of a broad thing like a leader.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 75 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willick. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.
[00:00:13] We have shared the incomunicable experience of war.
[00:00:20] We have felt we still feel the passion of life to its top.
[00:00:26] In our youth, our hearts were touched by fire.
[00:00:37] That's a quote from Oliver Wendell Holmes, Supreme Court Judge.
[00:00:45] Lots of people know that, but they may not know Civil War soldier served with a 20th
[00:00:52] Regiment of Massachusetts and volunteer infantry, saw action all over the place.
[00:01:01] Pencil campaign, the wilderness.
[00:01:05] He was wounded at the Battle of Balls.
[00:01:09] Bluff also wounded and anti-dem.
[00:01:13] And also wounded at the Battle of Chancellorville.
[00:01:16] So I think it's safe to say that he knew and understood war.
[00:01:22] And that quote right there is from the beginning of another book about another man
[00:01:31] that knew war.
[00:01:33] Major Dick Winners. Now we've covered Dick Winners before his book on this podcast.
[00:01:40] Number 17, Beyond Band of Brothers.
[00:01:42] Great book, lots of lessons learned, but there's another book.
[00:01:47] We just called the Conversations with Major Dick Winters.
[00:01:52] Life lessons from the commander of the band of brothers.
[00:01:56] And it's written by a guy named Colonel Cole C. King Seed.
[00:02:00] Who was a friend Dick Winners and who actually was the co-author behind that book Beyond Band of Brothers.
[00:02:09] So what's cool about this book is it really parses out some lessons about leadership in a conversational manner with Dick Winners.
[00:02:19] The things that he thought and the lessons that he learned, which, I mean, when you get an opportunity to learn from someone like this, you know what I do?
[00:02:29] I just be quiet. I listen and I learn or in this case I read and I learn.
[00:02:32] So this is also the guy. If you haven't seen this series on HBO, Band of Brothers, just go stop and just go watch it.
[00:02:43] It's, I don't know what it is, like 12, 12 episodes. They're all awesome.
[00:02:48] Every ask me all the time, what's a realistic war movies.
[00:02:52] That one band of brothers and then the Pacific, both HBO series, they're both phenomenal.
[00:02:57] And I recommend you watch it. You learn a lot about Dick Winners on that and the guy that plays Dick Winners does a great job.
[00:03:05] And the way they tell the story and the realism and all that, it's just an awesome series.
[00:03:10] But here we can learn not interpreted through a movie, but actually from the man as he spoke it. So here we go, taking it back to the book right now.
[00:03:24] Look, Dick Winners.
[00:03:28] D-Day was my first time in combat. So right there, let's just talk about that for a second.
[00:03:33] Your first time in combat, what's your mission? D-Day?
[00:03:37] One of the largest military operations of all time. That's your first day in combat. Get some.
[00:03:44] Back to the book. I was mentally prepared and felt that I had done everything necessary to prepare myself for this precise moment.
[00:03:50] And you never know if you will measure up as a leader until the minute arrives when you face the enemy for the first time.
[00:03:59] Baptism by fire is a soldier's sacrament. There is always doubt.
[00:04:04] Hopefully, in combat, you perform as you train.
[00:04:09] So I can't imagine that baptism by fire. D-Day.
[00:04:14] Again, get some sense of another good movie, saving private Ryan. The opening scene of that is the same thing.
[00:04:23] And that's one of the most intense parts of a movie ever is the D-Day when they're hitting the beaches. It's crazy to watch.
[00:04:33] But watch it because it will give you a feeling for what Dick Winners is talking about. Just imagine all these preparation that you do.
[00:04:39] You're getting ready and guess what? Here it comes. Little mission called D-Day.
[00:04:48] Now, that was their initial operation during D-Day, but then they fought all over the place. And again, we covered this in Beyond Band of Brothers.
[00:04:58] But one of the most intense parts of their campaign was at bestone.
[00:05:03] So even though D-Day was hard, things didn't get easier once D-Day was complete. As much as I'm saying, oh yeah, D-Day was crazy. Guess what?
[00:05:11] It wasn't even the hardest part for them. Things got worse.
[00:05:15] Back to the book, most of the soldiers in easy company also felt that bastone was the most challenging month of the war.
[00:05:23] Staff Sergeant Bill Gwarnier later claimed that he had been scared before, but he was absolutely petrified at bastone.
[00:05:30] From my perspective, bastone was the most miserable place I've been in my life.
[00:05:37] I was wet through and through. And naturally being a pair trooper, I didn't have a change of clothes, no blanket, nothing.
[00:05:46] And it was a cold son of a gun.
[00:05:49] Things were all snaffed, walking around in the black of night, not knowing where we were exactly where everybody else was.
[00:05:55] How's his burning civilians crying, ringing your hands, and behind every bush, a perspective enemy?
[00:06:03] We took our greatest number of casualties during that campaign.
[00:06:08] Easy company was never the same after bastone.
[00:06:13] We lost so many because we lost so many veterans who had fought in Normandy and Holland.
[00:06:18] Joe Toy, Bill Gwarnier, Buck Compton, Don Hubler, and many others.
[00:06:27] So this is where I started thinking, okay, leadership lesson learned right here.
[00:06:33] I operated the Battalion Command Post that was situated approximately 75 yards from the main line of resistance.
[00:06:39] You might not think 75 yards is consequential, but it gave me the opportunity to think things through and divorce myself from the chaos surrounding the front line and to make calm, rational decisions under pressure.
[00:06:55] That is the toughest challenge for any leader.
[00:06:58] So obviously we're talking about detachment here, and I've talked about the fact that in order to detach, you can move off the line like six inches.
[00:07:09] I'm not kidding in a smaller group, you know, in a single putton, he's talking about a battalion, so they got hundreds of guys.
[00:07:14] So 75 yards is more appropriate, but if you're running a smaller unit, like one company or maybe a putton, you got 3040 guys.
[00:07:22] If you move back off that firing line, six inches, a foot, maybe you know, maybe three feet or six feet, you just step back and you get yourself out of that fire fight where you can look around.
[00:07:35] That's what you're going to be able to do.
[00:07:37] You're going to be able to detach yourself from the chaos and the mayhem and make calm, rational decisions under pressure.
[00:07:43] And that's such a big deal, like when you do that, when you detach, and then you can, you know, you have a clear revision, and a lot of times the answer or solution to some big problem is just so simple.
[00:07:56] Remember that story you're telling at the muster where, you know, your, your guys had an injured neck, so he could participate, but he went to come along, so he's watching them outside, and he's like, why don't they just, what do you step back and peel left?
[00:08:07] Why don't they, why don't they get all my impules left? Yeah, whatever the call was, so the story is there was a guy that actually he was the Delta Patoon commander and T. You bruiser. He took over my position. He took over the T. You bruiser commander and then I was running the training. So once I was running the training, you know, now I was overall, making things happen and he was going through the training.
[00:08:30] A different block of training and he broke his neck, broke his neck, and thank God he didn't hurt his spinal cord, but he broke a vertebrae in his neck. So he had to wear one of those big crazy neck braces.
[00:08:45] And he couldn't actually do the physical training. It wasn't allowed to bury any weight for a certain amount of time, but, you know, luckily he was able to keep his, his job because he was very experienced.
[00:08:55] And so we were going through the land warfare portion of training. And I said, hey man, you know, I know you can't participate, but come out with me. You know, come out and check it out and you can see your guys and you can watch out there perform and you can teach them some stuff and learn from, from what happens.
[00:09:10] So cool, he comes out and he's actually one of my, you know, one of my best friends. So of course we just want to hang out anyways.
[00:09:14] So you know, of course we, he has a chance to come out and hang out with me. The desert for a few weeks is going to do it. So we, we get out there and, and you know, you've heard the stories about the training that I ran. It was really hard and evil and crazy and psychotic.
[00:09:31] And we're doing that, you know, we got, we, in that case, we had these really high speed laser laser tag system and you got guys pinned down. You got explosions going off. You got, just total mayhem going on and his guys kind of froze up.
[00:09:44] And they're all pinned down in this little sort of ravine valley type thing and I got guys, I got my guys, my opposing force. So the seals that are pretending to be bad guys pretending to be moved. They're all up in the mountains, shooting down on them and killing everyone.
[00:09:56] And his guy is his leadership is just kind of frozen and they're sitting there and not doing anything. And you know, he says to me, hey, can I help them?
[00:10:05] And I kind of thought about it from it. I go, yeah, go ahead. I go, give him, you know, tell him what to do, give him a prompt.
[00:10:11] And he, and he just, you know, goes down to the leader, one of the leaders and says, hey, get online and peel left.
[00:10:17] And so the guy looks at him and what does get online mean? Just it's an organizational movement where all your troops are pointed in all different directions.
[00:10:28] Boom, you'd say contact right online. And that means everyone's going to basically face that direction. You'll get a couple guys that are doing rare security, a couple guys that are doing flex security, but everyone is now oriented in the same direction.
[00:10:39] And then the next call that comes is peel left boom and they're all going to start moving, you know, in a direction that's going to get them out of this immediate threat.
[00:10:49] So he tells he kind of says the guy, hey, get online peel left. So the guy looks at him and he just yells out, get online peel left and then everyone repeats that command and then everyone does it.
[00:11:00] And within a minute, they're home free literally took like one minute once they made a decision. So, and then so they get out of there and he looks at me and he goes, he goes, pan, it's so easy when you're way up here. Now way up here to put it in perspective was
[00:11:18] for feet behind these guys. That's all it was. It wasn't like we were up on some mountain top with some incredible view. No, we were we were there. We were standing next to the guys and we are a little bit elevated because they're laying down and we were standing up, but it's it was not inconceivable that you wouldn't have the same perspective. If you just step back and maybe you know, shuffleed over a little bit.
[00:11:37] And he says, it's so easy when when you're up here. And I said, bro, you remember when we went through training and he says, yeah, and I said, it was always like this for me. And it was I was I would always just place myself back just enough to be able to see what the solution is.
[00:11:54] So, yes, this detachment that he's talking about and again, in a battalion situation where you're going to 75 yards and hitting a business situation, you know, I actually see people do this, you're in a meeting. And there's everyone around the, around the table and there's some problem that can't be solved.
[00:12:09] And you get literally step up and get step away from the table and just step back get away from the group because they're all mobbed up and group think everyone's going down the same trail. They're thinking about the same stuff and there's no new ideas because they're all right there and there's a vortex step away from the table.
[00:12:24] Yeah, it's same thing like step step away from your computer.
[00:12:27] Yeah, you get to some point where you're just you don't know where to go with some, you're looking for some kind of a solution to a problem step back step back see more. Yeah, yeah and writing a lot of times.
[00:12:37] They'll suggest just skip to the end don't worry about like this. Just go to the end. How do you want to end and then interesting it'll kind of open your mind up. It'll make you sort of forget about this problem right in front of you, you know, yeah, you can kind of an overall view of you towards the solution that you know can be found.
[00:12:53] Yeah, even in an argument with life or something like that. Oh yeah, well for sure that's a big one for sure because when you yeah you definitely need to do it there and you're in trash. You don't need to get in trash and don't do that.
[00:13:04] Yeah, all right and this part's been covered before on multiple occasions, you know what we're going to do covered again.
[00:13:14] Little piece about discipline, I did have a routine or routine that was instilled into me by Colonel sink.
[00:13:20] At Coa Colonel sink insisted that officers always shave in the morning regardless of the situation. He would say you shave every morning for the troops and if you want to shave every evening for the women that's up to you.
[00:13:34] I followed his orders because I realized that I had to set the proper example for the men.
[00:13:40] I needed to get their attention and let them all know that I intended to be around for a while and that the situation was not as bad as they might think.
[00:13:50] I remember before second batalion attacked for I had awakened early and shaved before I ate breakfast.
[00:13:54] I later discovered that I'd cut my face in multiple places. Colonel sink came up to check on the baton's readiness before the attack commenced. He took one look at me and smiled.
[00:14:04] I realized that he was laughing at me for shaving on that bitterly cold morning. In hindsight, shaving at zero dark 30 and freezing temperatures was pretty ridiculous.
[00:14:14] So, you know, we talk about this all the time, got to shave, got to maintain unmedicated daily discipline and all things.
[00:14:22] But what's cool about what I, the reason I wanted to go over this again is because look at what he's doing psychologically to the troops.
[00:14:28] He's saying, I know I had to set an example. I need to get their attention.
[00:14:33] And make them realize that, hey, we're going to be here for a while. And you know what? I'm just going to go daily. This is no big deal. Oh, you're worried about this stuff. I'm still shaving over here.
[00:14:41] I'm still waking up at zero 400 shaving. And you're worried about this stuff. Nothing's going to worry about. We're good to go.
[00:14:47] And you need to maintain the same discipline. So that leading by example, clearly is a big deal right there and maintaining that routine, maintaining that discipline.
[00:14:58] Now speaking of discipline back to the book, regardless of how disciplined an outfit is, too much time on your hands, too little activity and too much alcohol, make a volatile combination.
[00:15:08] So this book skips around a little bit. But I put this in here because this is actually talking about when they were done fighting.
[00:15:18] And now everyone is kind of idle. He has some idle people on their hands, but it related to discipline. So I wanted to lock it in a little bit back to the book.
[00:15:25] The batalion was no longer combat unit, but a garrison outfit. It was more important to keep the troops gainfully employed to prevent boredom and monotony.
[00:15:33] That would lead to a breakdown in discipline. And when that occurs, soldiers get careless.
[00:15:38] Consequently, the first thing we organized were calisthenics and athletic programs.
[00:15:44] You know, I always joke about, you know, when people say they have some kind of problem and I'm, oh, do burpees.
[00:15:49] Right. Hey, you know what a good solution to all problems are calisthenics. Just start doing calisthenics. I like that. I like that attitude.
[00:15:56] I vividly recall this is this is another reason I put this in.
[00:16:01] I vividly recall watching the men strip to their waist or only wearing their shorts as they played baseball.
[00:16:07] The sight of all those scars may be conscious of the fact that only a handful of men in the batalion had been lucky enough to make it through all four campaigns without at least one scar.
[00:16:17] Some men had two, three, or even four scars on their chest, back, arms, or legs.
[00:16:22] Keep in mind that this was after the war. So I was looking only at men who were not seriously wounded.
[00:16:29] Next, we set up rifle ranges and sharpened our marksmanship.
[00:16:33] Close order drill and troop reviews were once again back on the training schedule.
[00:16:38] I also established a schedule where each of our four platoons could rotate every 72 hours to a ski lodge in the Alps for rest and relaxation.
[00:16:46] The purpose of using this retreat was to let the men get away from the routine of a military schedule.
[00:16:52] So first of all, when I got to seal team one, and actually it wasn't when I first got there, but there was a Master Chief at seal team one that had showed up in 1971 or 1972 to seal team one.
[00:17:05] And seal team one, you know, you had 150 guys roughly on the team at that time.
[00:17:11] And they had had 34 killed an action in Vietnam at seal team one.
[00:17:18] And I don't know how many wounded, but it was a lot.
[00:17:21] But this guy who's a Master Chief when I met him, and he was telling me that when he, you know, at the seal team, you know, you PT in the morning,
[00:17:28] just like a sports team, you get to work and you work out.
[00:17:31] And here's a new guy, right? And he's they, they PT, and then they go in the shower, you know, to wash off and he's the same thing.
[00:17:39] He's like looking at every single guy's scarred up wounded, you know, slashes on their chest, bullet holes in him.
[00:17:46] And he kind of was saying to himself, damn, you know, this has been trial by fire for these guys.
[00:17:54] But beyond that, what he's talking about here clearly is, if you, and I'll tell you this, especially with, you know, 18 year old, 19 year old, 20 year old males that have joined the military.
[00:18:08] If you don't find something for them to do productive, they're going to find something to do.
[00:18:12] That's not going to be productive.
[00:18:14] It'll be fun for him. It'll be fun for him. They're going to have a good time, but it's not, there's a chance they could be doing something better than what you're letting them do.
[00:18:23] Now, of course, he talks about the fact that he's given him still given him time to go out to the ski lodge and break away from it a little bit.
[00:18:30] But you just got to be careful on how you do that. You got to be careful on how you do that.
[00:18:35] It's, it can backfire if you're not careful.
[00:18:40] And the first time I was ever kind of detached from a seal,
[00:18:44] Patoon on a, it was when I went to training the training department at Seal Team 1,
[00:18:49] we'll use to call training cell, which sounds legit.
[00:18:53] I didn't love the legit.
[00:18:55] So at training cell, the first trip I went on with a Patoon, because I was always in the Patoon.
[00:19:01] So the first trip I went on with the Patoon, and I was outside of the Patoon,
[00:19:06] and I was, you could say I was an instructor, even though we weren't running around calling ourselves instructor instructors.
[00:19:13] We would call ourselves actually the Cadray.
[00:19:15] I don't know why.
[00:19:16] It was like, oh, yeah, Cadray.
[00:19:18] Sounds dope.
[00:19:19] Yes.
[00:19:20] We left an official term, though.
[00:19:21] It is an official term.
[00:19:22] Yeah, Cadray.
[00:19:23] The training cadre.
[00:19:24] So when we were at training cell, because the instructors are kind of considered the buds instructors, the
[00:19:29] basic training, and we didn't really want to be buds instructors, we were the cadre.
[00:19:34] Yeah.
[00:19:35] So, and I never, I didn't, this is just, this is just my own assessment.
[00:19:39] I didn't make up cadre, I didn't call ourselves cadre, and make up training cell.
[00:19:43] I wish I would have made up all those things, but I just flowed into them as a lucky young new guy.
[00:19:48] Actually, at this point, I wasn't a new guy anymore.
[00:19:50] Wait, but it's true, though, right?
[00:19:52] It's not like you just gave yourself a title that was,
[00:19:54] No, no, no, we were the, yeah, you, you, you're training cadre.
[00:19:56] Yeah.
[00:19:57] Oh, hey, I need to talk to you guys in the cadre over here.
[00:19:59] Yeah, that's what we call ourselves.
[00:20:00] Yeah, yeah, so it's like, you know, like, let's say you open a Getsagee gym,
[00:20:03] and then, you know, you're teaching people, and then you're like, okay, yeah, I'm the instructor,
[00:20:07] and then you say, you know what, I like professor, that's better.
[00:20:10] Yeah, I know, what is that?
[00:20:11] It's not that.
[00:20:12] I didn't make that.
[00:20:13] No, no, no, no, they called, you know, for years.
[00:20:15] And actually, I think Roger Hayden talked about it when he was on the podcast.
[00:20:19] He was talking about when he was cadre.
[00:20:20] So, right, it's been around forever.
[00:20:22] Right, that's why I just like professor, it's like, it's true.
[00:20:25] Yeah, it's a true, you are the professor, but it's like, it just sounds better.
[00:20:28] You know, it sounds better.
[00:20:29] So you're not going to go with that one.
[00:20:30] Just go with cadre.
[00:20:31] Yeah, yeah, like none of you know, the one I was talking about.
[00:20:34] Oh, so I was in the cadre for the first time.
[00:20:37] And we went on a trip.
[00:20:38] We went to a trip where they have good times to be had, where we were.
[00:20:43] It was a place where there was some good training, but there was also good times.
[00:20:47] And, you know, I picked this up from Harley-Flyne again.
[00:20:50] This term, which I hadn't really heard wild thing.
[00:20:53] Did you hear him say that?
[00:20:54] He's like, oh, we were just wilding.
[00:20:56] Yeah.
[00:20:57] I think it's better term than the term that we discussed, which was partying.
[00:21:00] Right.
[00:21:01] Right.
[00:21:02] Oh, there's good, we are partying.
[00:21:03] Yeah.
[00:21:04] I like wilding better.
[00:21:05] Because that entails all kinds of other things.
[00:21:06] Little bit more wild.
[00:21:07] Yeah, wilding out or wilding out or wilding out.
[00:21:09] I never really heard it.
[00:21:10] I never really heard it before.
[00:21:11] But when Harley said me clearly, you know what it is.
[00:21:13] Yeah, yeah.
[00:21:14] And it's in his book too.
[00:21:15] He talks about wilding.
[00:21:16] So we went to this place with a seal platoon where there was good training and good wilding
[00:21:22] to be had.
[00:21:23] And I remember the first time that these guys, you know, we get there.
[00:21:26] We work a little bit and then they're going to go out into the town.
[00:21:30] And I remember thinking myself, they've been in the field for a few days.
[00:21:34] And they were all fired up, young frogmen.
[00:21:37] And I was thinking myself, how is this even going to work?
[00:21:40] Like, there's no possibility of this going well.
[00:21:43] And it did, you know, everyone find me.
[00:21:44] You just see all these guys.
[00:21:45] They're ready to, you know, they're ready to explode.
[00:21:48] And you're going to, they've been in the field.
[00:21:50] And if dehydrated, they've been in the field for four days or five days, they're all dehydrated.
[00:21:54] And they completed their operation.
[00:21:56] They feel good about it.
[00:21:57] Now you're going to let them out in time.
[00:21:59] Yeah, you got to be careful with those scenarios.
[00:22:02] You got to put something.
[00:22:03] Yeah, we would, you know, sometimes you just say, hey, look, yeah, do whatever you want.
[00:22:07] Tonight, but we're peating tomorrow at 0700.
[00:22:09] So then everyone knows they can, they can wild to a point.
[00:22:13] But they can't, they got to put some kind of a governor.
[00:22:16] Some kind of a go on this scenario.
[00:22:18] Here's a cool piece where Dick Winters, you know, he talks about this before it.
[00:22:26] But just just a piece about his view of what America was doing at the time, back to the book.
[00:22:33] The United States went to war, not to conquer territory, or to subject their fellow man,
[00:22:40] but merely to liberate a conquered people from the chains of tyranny.
[00:22:45] There is a certain nobility in all that.
[00:22:48] Today we are bombarded in the news media about how everyone hates America and how this country is deployed around the world.
[00:22:56] World War II wasn't like that, and I am proud to be a part of it.
[00:23:01] So again, I've said this a bunch of times.
[00:23:04] You know, we went there and lost hundreds of thousands of people in Europe and in the Pacific theater.
[00:23:12] And we took nothing.
[00:23:15] We only gave some thoughts on leadership from Dick Winters.
[00:23:21] Leadership, leadership's defining quality is honesty.
[00:23:27] To honesty, add fairness and consistency.
[00:23:32] I was able to develop a sixth sense during the war that allowed me to size up a situation rapidly.
[00:23:38] I could look at terrain and be able to see opportunities instead of challenges by leading from the front.
[00:23:44] I believe I achieved a high degree of success.
[00:23:47] So I thought that was a very very interesting combination.
[00:23:51] Honesty, fairness, and consistency.
[00:23:54] You don't hear those a lot about being a great leader.
[00:23:58] I mean, I always talk about the number one attribute of a leader is humility.
[00:24:03] And I definitely believe that humility is important, but honesty, that's clearly a thought and a concept of leadership that I think that misses a lot of people.
[00:24:18] I think, and we've talked about plenty of cases on the podcast here where we say,
[00:24:21] Oh, what if this is going on and I say, look, you want to be honest with them.
[00:24:24] So I've definitely said that before, but I'm going to start saying it more because I'm learning a little something from Dick Winters today.
[00:24:32] But you know, I remember we had a case where someone was saying, hey, I'm going to leave this job or I'm going to take another job and what should I do?
[00:24:38] Should I tell them, should I not? And we kind of went around and I was like, look, just tell me truth.
[00:24:42] Just say, look, hey, this is what's going on.
[00:24:44] I'm going to be, I've got a better opportunity.
[00:24:46] I'm going to take it because, and in the long run, you're in the long run, it's going to be, you're going to be better off if you're honest with people.
[00:24:53] And so obviously, to think about this quality, it's something I've thought about, but not as clearly as this as Dick Winters.
[00:25:01] As Dick Winters saying, that's the defining quality.
[00:25:04] That's obviously important, something that I will talk about more now.
[00:25:09] Definitely believe that, but we'll talk about it more.
[00:25:13] Now, if you've seen the movie, Ben or Brothers, or the series, Ben or Brothers, they do a good job of showing to be getting when they form up.
[00:25:23] And there's a guy in the leadership position called Captain Sobel.
[00:25:27] And he's not a good leader. And they do a good job of portraying why he wasn't a good leader in the series.
[00:25:34] But here's what Dick Winters had to say about it back to the book.
[00:25:38] Captain Sobel commanded through fear and intimidation.
[00:25:43] That is not how a leader should conduct himself.
[00:25:47] Sobel was not just unfair. He was mean-spirited.
[00:25:51] His attitude created a special bond within an easy company that allowed the men to identify with their pletoons more.
[00:25:56] And he's got a lot of their pletoons more so within with the company, which is more normal in most uner military units.
[00:26:03] Second lieutenants by their nature are a clandish group.
[00:26:06] So you've got a company commander and he's got three usually three pletoons underneath him.
[00:26:10] And each one of those is run by a second lieutenant.
[00:26:12] So these second lieutenants are the pletoon commanders.
[00:26:14] Second lieutenants by their nature are a clandish group.
[00:26:17] Some are more serious than others, but for the most part, they wander around a military post as General Heiz now or once said,
[00:26:23] In a rather aimless search for excitement.
[00:26:28] Easy companies, platoon leaders, of which I was one,
[00:26:31] They are best to take care of our soldiers to soften.
[00:26:34] Sobel's dictatorial behavior.
[00:26:37] I lost all respect for our commander.
[00:26:40] The day he announced to the officers in easy company,
[00:26:43] We will lead through fear, not by example.
[00:26:47] That's just the opposite of any leadership principle that I could ever conceive.
[00:26:52] It's to lead through fear instead of example.
[00:26:55] Kind of like when you're dead.
[00:26:57] Well, I don't know about your dead, but if your death says,
[00:27:00] Or if you say to your kids, do what I say, not what I do.
[00:27:03] You know what I do?
[00:27:05] You know what I've heard that for sure?
[00:27:06] For sure.
[00:27:07] That's it.
[00:27:08] And if you want to put the fear onto that, do what I say not what I do or else.
[00:27:13] Or else.
[00:27:14] Yeah.
[00:27:15] I'm going to get out the belt or the kids down south.
[00:27:18] They say, yeah, then I'm going to get out the switch.
[00:27:20] Yeah, I get out the switch.
[00:27:22] I don't know what I'm saying.
[00:27:23] Not all the time, but you know, he said that.
[00:27:25] He said switch, where was he from?
[00:27:28] That's from Brooklyn, New York.
[00:27:30] They got no switches in Brooklyn, New York.
[00:27:32] I'm here to tell you.
[00:27:33] On quiet, they do.
[00:27:34] On quiet, they found someone.
[00:27:35] He made me go get my switch.
[00:27:37] He said go get a switch.
[00:27:38] I don't know what that means by the way.
[00:27:40] At this point.
[00:27:41] Okay.
[00:27:42] You're a little kid.
[00:27:43] Yeah.
[00:27:43] Go get one.
[00:27:44] And I'm from quiet.
[00:27:45] They don't say switch, you know, apparently.
[00:27:46] Other people say switch.
[00:27:47] I didn't know.
[00:27:48] Which made him kind of more mad.
[00:27:50] So then he had to brief you on what a switch was.
[00:27:53] Yeah, this is the thing I'm going to be doing.
[00:27:56] It's kind of like digging your own grave in a way.
[00:27:59] Very, very, very, very simple.
[00:28:01] Yeah.
[00:28:02] Very simple.
[00:28:03] Yeah.
[00:28:04] Back to the book.
[00:28:05] It made such an impression on me that I recorded his words in my diary.
[00:28:08] Under ordinary circumstances, a junior company officer attempts to reflect his company
[00:28:13] commanders leadership style.
[00:28:15] But easy companies, lieutenants, found that they simply could not emulate the images so
[00:28:20] Bell and still live with themselves.
[00:28:23] So Bell had no friends within the company and few within the regimen.
[00:28:27] At the end of each day, he went one way and we lieutenants went another hoping not to run into
[00:28:33] him at the officers club.
[00:28:39] He lacked confidence in his own ability as an infantry commander.
[00:28:42] He was completely honest, but he couldn't read a map to save his neck.
[00:28:49] His knowledge of tactics and fire maneuver was extremely poor.
[00:28:53] So horrible situation.
[00:28:55] And this is one of those things where he's talking about how everyone no one in hang around
[00:29:00] with him.
[00:29:01] Right?
[00:29:02] And I've heard leaders say, a good leader's not going to be like,
[00:29:06] they're not going to be loved by everyone.
[00:29:08] And that there's some truth to that.
[00:29:09] Right?
[00:29:10] Of course, not everyone's going to love you.
[00:29:11] But there's also a difference when no one likes you.
[00:29:14] You're not doing a good job.
[00:29:15] You're not doing a good job at all.
[00:29:17] And you know, I hung out with all my guys all the time through the chain of command.
[00:29:22] Everyone to hang out.
[00:29:23] Let's go.
[00:29:24] Let's hang out.
[00:29:25] Wasn't running away from me at the end of the water.
[00:29:28] You were scared.
[00:29:29] That's not a good sign.
[00:29:32] Yeah.
[00:29:32] Like one guy say, I'm no hear to make friends.
[00:29:35] Yeah, that's another classic, right?
[00:29:36] I'm not hear to make friends.
[00:29:37] No, but I actually, you know, there's, I heard officers say that in the military.
[00:29:41] You see officers, I've heard say, look, you.
[00:29:43] And they'll say like, it's not a popularity contest, which is not clearly.
[00:29:47] You're going to make decisions.
[00:29:48] I'm going to be hard for people to swallow.
[00:29:50] But to have people running away from you because they don't like you as a human being.
[00:29:54] That's not a good position to be in.
[00:29:56] You're, you're not doing a good job as a leader.
[00:29:58] You need to reassess what you're, what you're, what you're doing and how you're doing it.
[00:30:03] Mm.
[00:30:04] And this is kind of reflective of what Dick Winner's attitude was back to the book.
[00:30:14] Easy company didn't belong to me.
[00:30:18] It belonged to the soldiers.
[00:30:21] I was privileged to be a small part of its history.
[00:30:24] Officers and commanders in particular are merely caretakers.
[00:30:29] That the peer-to-peer's respected me is more than enough reward.
[00:30:33] So there's just totally, totally different attitude, right?
[00:30:38] And there's something weird that happens with the military.
[00:30:42] You'll hear a guy, it's a contradictory state.
[00:30:45] There's a dichotomy.
[00:30:47] You'll hear a guy say, my soldiers or my Marines.
[00:30:52] And there's two ways that that can be taken.
[00:30:55] One of them is very positive.
[00:30:58] My soldiers.
[00:30:59] I am going to take care of my soldiers.
[00:31:01] Hey, don't come down here and talk to my soldiers like that.
[00:31:04] Or, hey, you know, I need to make sure my soldiers have the gear that they need.
[00:31:08] I need to make sure my Marines have.
[00:31:10] And that's a, they mean that in the best possible way.
[00:31:13] There's another side to that, which is completely negative, which is, these are my Marines.
[00:31:20] Me and you own them.
[00:31:22] Me and you all do what I want with them.
[00:31:24] And so I've seen guys on both sides of that edge.
[00:31:28] You hear a good, you can hear a good leader say my Marines.
[00:31:31] You can hear a good leader say my soldiers.
[00:31:33] You can hear a good leader say my seals.
[00:31:35] And think of it in a positive way.
[00:31:37] And you can have a crappy leader say my soldiers.
[00:31:40] My Marines my seals.
[00:31:42] And you just think dude, no.
[00:31:45] And so for, and especially when you get dick winners who is, you know, universally respected in his, in the military and definitely in his battalion and his company.
[00:31:55] And he's a guy that's saying look, it was theirs.
[00:31:58] That just tells you that's where your leadership perspective should come from.
[00:32:03] Yeah, I always felt that a better way instead of saying my, one of the few things as far as feelings go because I, I, I, I experienced that a lot when people be like my, this and that, you know, and I see what you're doing.
[00:32:18] It's like you're just the boss and the owner of all this kind of thing, you know, kind of thing.
[00:32:22] But with it felt like, and feels like with people like my soldiers, you know, there is a lot of room for like, because men, these are my brothers, you know, my guys, but let's say they're talking about like something else like a big one.
[00:32:36] Like the bartenders that you so work with everyone's in a while, you'd have one and say well, I got this and you know, my bar and when they talk to the customers, you know, they're like hey, what kind of, I don't know, vodka do you have.
[00:32:46] And then they tell my best vodka is, you know, this and that, then they'd say my, you know, kind of like I'm the master of this whole domain here, everything here is mine, and that I can bestow upon you kind of feeling.
[00:32:57] Yeah, that's all he's kind of.
[00:32:59] Well, they do do it.
[00:33:00] Definitely in the military with inanimate objects, not just soldiers and Marines and sailors, they do it with inanimate objects.
[00:33:08] And you learn that book camp where they, you know, they say, why are you on my parade deck right?
[00:33:14] And he gives you this feeling of like, this guy's really into this parade deck, I mean, I'm, you know, where you do marching.
[00:33:20] Yeah, they say get off my parade deck and it instills that kind of personal pride about something.
[00:33:26] So again, even that one can go both ways.
[00:33:29] Yeah, I guess it really, you really have to understand what your intent is behind what you're saying and you have to be careful.
[00:33:34] I, I always, I feel subconscious about that.
[00:33:38] And I'll give you an example.
[00:33:40] My gym. Yeah, right, my gym. When I, when I talk about victory MMA, which, you know, we have partners and it's not solely my gym.
[00:33:48] You know, but it's my gym where I change train, right?
[00:33:51] But sometimes someone will say something and I'll feed it, like, oh, where do you train?
[00:33:55] You know, and I could say I train in my gym.
[00:33:58] You know what I mean? I feel like I'm real.
[00:34:00] Turned when I do that.
[00:34:02] I got all victory MMA in front of us, you know, yeah, oh, Dean Mr. Jeff Glover, yeah, that's where I train.
[00:34:07] And away, do you own that place? Yeah, yeah, I'm one of the owners in the normal block.
[00:34:11] But yeah, you don't like that.
[00:34:13] My, oh, you get to say it.
[00:34:15] Careful. What a careful way to be careful with that too.
[00:34:18] I always thought if you said, hour, you know, especially even in a bartender situation, what we have, it's kind of like us as an establishment.
[00:34:26] Right. You know, kind of thing.
[00:34:27] I'm part of that when you say, are you're part of it?
[00:34:29] You know, so it kind of still puts that forward.
[00:34:32] Like, I'm kind of giving this to you or offering whatever.
[00:34:35] I'm taking some ownership, but it's like, I'm not the boss of this thing. It kind of feels that way. That's what I always thought.
[00:34:40] So even if you like in your situation, if you're like, you know, someone's like, hey, Doc, where do you train?
[00:34:45] We say, well, at our gym, you know, and it's kind of ambiguous as well, which kind of seems more humble.
[00:34:50] You know, where it's like, oh, yeah, you could be just a member, but at least you're part of that community, you know, kind of thing.
[00:34:56] So yeah, the use are, we'll get it.
[00:34:58] That's what we're talking about.
[00:34:59] That's what we're talking about.
[00:35:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:35:01] Definitely careful with my marine, this my soldiers, and again, sometimes that's the most positive thing you could possibly say.
[00:35:09] Mm-hmm.
[00:35:10] These are my seals.
[00:35:11] Hey, don't come down here and think you're going to put my seals out in the field in a bad situation.
[00:35:15] Not happening. You know what I mean? You're protective.
[00:35:17] There are brothers. You know, you have ownership of them, but it's in the, it's in the, it's in the, the positive way.
[00:35:23] Yeah, as opposed to look, all deploying my seals wherever I see fit.
[00:35:28] Oh, put a, put a red flag on that dude's face.
[00:35:31] Yeah.
[00:35:32] Right.
[00:35:35] Back to the book.
[00:35:37] I think of easy company every day.
[00:35:40] We sustained 150% casualties between the night that we jumped into Normandy and VE day.
[00:35:49] 150% casualties.
[00:35:51] So those of you that are wondering how you do that, how you do that, as you have people getting wounded multiple times and coming back to the front.
[00:35:57] And when your replacement show up, they get wounded too.
[00:36:01] So you, you know, you've got whatever 150 people in your, in your company.
[00:36:07] And over the course of time, people get wounded and leave and new people come in to take their place and they get wounded as well.
[00:36:13] And that's how you get up over a hundred percent of your people being wounded.
[00:36:19] The result of sharing all the stress throughout training and combat has created a bond between the men of easy company that will last for a month.
[00:36:26] In a sense, I don't think I ever left company E.
[00:36:29] I may never again see the type of men in this outfit, but to me easy company will always be my company.
[00:36:42] In the sense that I will always remain a part of it.
[00:36:47] To this day, they remain my second family.
[00:36:51] I still look at these men with great respect, respect that can't describe in words.
[00:37:00] So there he makes it the same thing.
[00:37:03] Like he feels uncomfortable saying, mine, he has to put a, a quantify on it and explain, hey, not in that sense, but always be a part of it.
[00:37:13] That's why it's mine.
[00:37:16] More about leadership back to the book, leadership is difficult to define.
[00:37:21] They talk about leadership at West Point every day.
[00:37:24] Leadership starts with honesty, dedication, and having a man who is dependable and fair.
[00:37:31] If you never deviate from the standards that you established, men have faith in you, and you'll be out front to set the example.
[00:37:40] Sergeant Talbert once told me, sir, I'd follow you into hell.
[00:37:46] I'd take a great deal of pride in his remark.
[00:37:49] So again, we're getting this leadership starts with honesty, dedication, dependable and fair.
[00:37:56] So important, so important, being fair.
[00:37:59] And you see that a lot when it comes to dilling out punishment when people make mistakes.
[00:38:03] Are you fair enough?
[00:38:05] You know, does that person really deserve to lose their pay for 90 days or go on bread and water?
[00:38:10] Whatever kind of punishment you're going to bestow on someone?
[00:38:14] Is that fair?
[00:38:16] And people know if things are fair or not.
[00:38:19] People know what's reasonable.
[00:38:21] Hey, do you think that, you know, when people say, I'm going to make an example out of somebody, you know, for, sometimes it's for different reasons.
[00:38:29] Maybe like, oh, I've been letting people slack, so I got to make an example out of somebody to kind of re-establish the
[00:38:34] discipline kind of thing, or maybe, you know, as a boss or whatever, you really don't like this specific violation.
[00:38:43] Like, you just, just one of your things, you know, so you can make an example for that reason.
[00:38:47] Do you think that that's fair?
[00:38:49] It can be.
[00:38:50] But it's also a touchy subject.
[00:38:53] You tell me, I personally think, let's say I've been giving some slack and people been showing up a little bit late,
[00:38:59] showing up a little bit late, and I'm kind of like, hey, man, you know, we need to be a little more in time and then finally on a Thursday,
[00:39:06] guys shows up late for the meeting, and I say, hey, you're suspended, you're grounded, you're, you know, you're going to work this weekend.
[00:39:14] I plan to punish some hard, super hard.
[00:39:18] That doesn't make sense, right?
[00:39:20] It doesn't make sense.
[00:39:21] And people say, oh, you know, I'm not good.
[00:39:24] It's not being consistent because people have been being like, however, if I was to say, hey, guys,
[00:39:28] check it out, build just walking in right now, and I've been letting it slide, and I'll tell you what, this is where it's getting us.
[00:39:34] We've been later and later, and we start slacken here.
[00:39:37] We're going to start slacken in other places.
[00:39:39] We can't afford to slack right now.
[00:39:41] Our mission's too important.
[00:39:42] From now on, if we're late, if you're late, showing up to this meeting or you're late to an evolution that we're about to do, I'm going to drop the hammer.
[00:39:49] So don't be late.
[00:39:51] Is that fair?
[00:39:52] Yeah.
[00:39:53] Fair warning.
[00:39:54] Explanation has to why that's fair, in my opinion.
[00:39:57] Just going off the handle and smashing someone because you want to make an example of them, that doesn't make sense to me.
[00:40:03] Yeah.
[00:40:04] I don't like it.
[00:40:05] I don't do it.
[00:40:06] Yeah.
[00:40:07] That makes sense.
[00:40:07] Can it be useful?
[00:40:08] Yes.
[00:40:09] If someone, if there's a clearly delineated expectation that's been set and it gets violated for whatever reason, and you are going to crush and destroy to set an example.
[00:40:18] And actually, we're going to get to a point where he talks about that in here, there isn't example set.
[00:40:21] And that has to send a message everyone.
[00:40:24] Yeah.
[00:40:25] Can do that. I've done that with my family.
[00:40:27] Yeah.
[00:40:28] Hey, here's the line.
[00:40:29] If you cross it, you will remember for a very long time that you made a bad decision.
[00:40:35] Yeah.
[00:40:36] And my other kids, when I've done that to some of one of my kids that is made a bad decision, they all remember all of them.
[00:40:42] Yeah.
[00:40:43] They don't want to make that mistake.
[00:40:44] Yeah.
[00:40:45] It seems like you don't want to cross the line.
[00:40:47] No.
[00:40:48] Not at all.
[00:40:49] Like it.
[00:40:50] How you said, if you give them kind of ample warning, where you kind of give them the tools to make their own decision.
[00:40:53] You're kind of thinking, even if you are changing a policy or whatever, you know, harsh upon the punishments all this stuff.
[00:41:00] As long as you warn them like how you're saying that seems like fair and a huge one, which I always kind of thought was if it applies to everyone.
[00:41:10] You know, like if if this violation, this punishment for this violation applies to everyone.
[00:41:15] Sure, it just happens to be this guy because he just happens. He's being the one.
[00:41:18] He happens to be the one that committed the violation or whatever.
[00:41:21] But this rule, this policy applies to everybody.
[00:41:25] Yeah.
[00:41:26] And also when you when you explain these things, you don't blame them.
[00:41:31] If you notice even when I just said, you know, hey guys, I've been right there.
[00:41:35] Yeah.
[00:41:35] You don't say look, you guys have been stuck.
[00:41:37] No, so look, I didn't make it clear why this is important.
[00:41:40] Yeah.
[00:41:40] And therefore you guys have been, you know, I've been letting you slack.
[00:41:43] You guys have been showing up late.
[00:41:45] That's a problem.
[00:41:46] We can't have that problem anymore.
[00:41:47] So you just don't start point the fingers going to be like, yeah.
[00:41:50] And then hammering a Polish punishment. No, not a good idea.
[00:41:56] Speaking of leadership back to the book, I believe that some men and women are born with the inherent qualities that make them good leaders.
[00:42:04] Writing to his son, John, who is a cadet at West Point in 1943,
[00:42:09] General Eisenhower once said, the one quality that can be developed by studious reflection and practice is the leadership of men.
[00:42:17] I agree with Ike. Leaders are not born.
[00:42:21] Leaders are made and they are made by solid effort and hard work.
[00:42:26] So there's a little contradictory in there because he says, look, some people are born with qualities that make them a good leader,
[00:42:31] but you can learn to be a good leader. I totally agree with that.
[00:42:33] I've always said that some people have the qualities that make them a good leader naturally or they lot of some of them, right?
[00:42:40] Some of them are be really articulate. Some of them will be very charismatic, very dynamic, loud.
[00:42:46] Have a lot of presence. Those are all characters, except we'll differentiate in different people.
[00:42:51] And if you have a lot of those, you're going to have a naturally easier time being a good leader.
[00:42:55] Now, occasionally you get people that have some of those qualities, but they're idiots and those are the worst because they can get people to follow them.
[00:43:01] Even though they don't know where they're going. Those are bad situations.
[00:43:04] But it's interesting hard work, studying, right? Studying leadership.
[00:43:09] I, you know, today I already learned something.
[00:43:11] Need to increase my focus on honesty as a leadership quality.
[00:43:16] But yeah, I'm always studying, always learning, and we all need to be.
[00:43:20] That's how we're going to become a better leader.
[00:43:22] And a lot of the studying that I did when I was growing up in the teams was just, well, I was watching and thinking about why these leaders were doing what they're doing.
[00:43:32] What is making them do that? Good leader? Why is that? Why do we respond to that?
[00:43:36] Bad leader? Why don't we respond well to what he's doing?
[00:43:39] I wasn't sitting there consciously thinking about it.
[00:43:43] Actually, no, in some, in some cases, I was actually consciously thinking about it.
[00:43:47] You know, consciously thinking, wait, why is no one want to follow this guy?
[00:43:50] How is he acting that we all want to walk away from him?
[00:43:55] Why is that happening? And then when he get a good leader, I'd say,
[00:43:58] Yeah, this, why is this guy such a good leader?
[00:44:00] So yeah, I guess I did consciously do that. And study not from books, but from life to trying to learn.
[00:44:08] Yeah. And that's how you can become better.
[00:44:11] Here's a little note, too.
[00:44:14] And, and you want to talk about holding the line.
[00:44:17] If you aren't good physical shape, forget it.
[00:44:20] You are not going to be a good leader.
[00:44:23] Well, certainly in a military environment, that is true.
[00:44:27] Are there some civilian leaders that aren't the best shape?
[00:44:30] Yeah, there are.
[00:44:31] Would those leaders be doing a better job if they were in better physical condition?
[00:44:35] Yes, they would. It's like that thing that starting strength, coach,
[00:44:40] Rippato says, I, I post, I've never talked about it, but I posted, you know,
[00:44:44] He's talking about how physical strength is good.
[00:44:46] And people that say that physical strength aren't good, he says, you know,
[00:44:50] I forget the exact quote, but he's basically saying,
[00:44:53] I, I know physical strength is good.
[00:44:57] And if you take someone that says the physical strength isn't good,
[00:45:02] and it's important.
[00:45:05] And then you add 120 pounds to their squat,
[00:45:10] and then ask them how they're doing now.
[00:45:13] They're going to be doing better.
[00:45:15] Yeah, they're going to be doing better.
[00:45:16] The more you can deadlift, the better you're going to feel.
[00:45:18] You don't feel worse when you can deadlift more.
[00:45:20] You don't feel worse when you can squat more.
[00:45:22] You feel better.
[00:45:23] Yeah.
[00:45:23] What? Why is that? There's a million reasons why.
[00:45:25] Confidence, overcoming the challenge,
[00:45:28] you're actually physically stronger.
[00:45:30] Your mental clarity goes up. So yeah, of course,
[00:45:34] being good shape.
[00:45:36] Being good shape.
[00:45:37] If you're worried about your health,
[00:45:39] you're, you're not going to be able to focus on being a good leader.
[00:45:42] And in the military or in any job where that demands physical exertion,
[00:45:47] you have to be in good shape.
[00:45:49] Otherwise, people are looking at you and you're falling apart.
[00:45:51] You can't be falling apart on a patrol.
[00:45:53] You can't be falling apart during a combat swimming operation.
[00:45:56] Where you, you, you, you need to swim.
[00:45:58] You need to swim far. You're going to swim for four straight hours on a combat swim
[00:46:02] or operation. If you're weak and you can't do that,
[00:46:04] you think you're going to respect you.
[00:46:06] Hmm.
[00:46:07] They're not. I'll go in the answer that question for you.
[00:46:10] Hmm.
[00:46:11] Is that kind of like the hockey coach who doesn't even know how to ice skate?
[00:46:15] You know, there are coaches that have never participated in the sport that they coach and they're good.
[00:46:21] There's, I mean, you can look at Greg Jackson who's a great mixed martial arts coach.
[00:46:24] He's never been a mixed martial arts fighter.
[00:46:26] Yeah, but he knows how to fight though, you know?
[00:46:28] Yeah, certainly does. Yes.
[00:46:30] But he hasn't actually fought.
[00:46:32] So how can he be a good coach?
[00:46:34] What about Duke Rufus?
[00:46:36] He's never fought MMA, has he?
[00:46:38] Oh, MMA. I don't know.
[00:46:40] He's a champion kick boxer, but how can he be such a great coach at MMA?
[00:46:45] Yeah, because he can connect the dots and stuff like that.
[00:46:47] And of course, there's, you know, there's exceptions here,
[00:46:50] but generally speaking, and plus you're talking about a little bit more of a broad thing like a leader.
[00:46:54] Like who are we going to like follow?
[00:46:56] Yeah, yeah, I'm probably talking about coaches.
[00:46:58] I mean, coaches are not participating anymore. That's why they're coaching.
[00:47:02] Yeah.
[00:47:02] So I guess those are really stupid examples.
[00:47:04] Yeah, it's my coach's goal.
[00:47:06] Because, you know, custom auto with Mike Tyson.
[00:47:10] Obviously he wasn't getting in the ring with Mike Tyson, right?
[00:47:12] Yeah.
[00:47:12] But he's a great coach, a fantastic coach.
[00:47:14] One of the most, you know, one of the most respected coaches of all time.
[00:47:17] Yeah.
[00:47:17] And the results are a little bit more like recognizable, like the less ambiguous.
[00:47:21] Like a leader's results quote unquote.
[00:47:24] Yeah.
[00:47:24] And we're looking at leaders in the field.
[00:47:26] Like leaders in the job that are leading a group to accomplish a mission.
[00:47:30] Right.
[00:47:31] That's different than a coach.
[00:47:32] A coach is outside the group.
[00:47:33] Yeah.
[00:47:34] So we're talking about someone that's in the group.
[00:47:36] Yeah.
[00:47:37] You got to be able to maintain.
[00:47:39] You got to be able to stay with your team physically.
[00:47:42] And you know, it's not like you need to be the best.
[00:47:44] I was never the fastest guy.
[00:47:45] I was never the strongest guy.
[00:47:47] But I wasn't going to be fallen behind on a patrol.
[00:47:50] Yeah.
[00:47:51] Because I wasn't in good shape.
[00:47:52] That wasn't going to happen.
[00:47:53] Yeah.
[00:47:54] And the only way that doesn't happen is you need to stay in shape.
[00:47:56] How do you stay in shape?
[00:47:57] Got to have a discipline.
[00:47:58] Yep.
[00:47:59] Yeah.
[00:48:00] So these questions answer themselves at some point.
[00:48:02] Maybe something like this podcast will just come on here and sit here in silence.
[00:48:07] Yep.
[00:48:08] Now speaking of.
[00:48:09] Now this is this is good that you were talking about this.
[00:48:12] Here is a heavy punishment handed out.
[00:48:17] Talking about Colonel Bob Sink, who was the leader of the 506th parachute infantry
[00:48:25] regiment.
[00:48:26] Here we go.
[00:48:27] Back to the book.
[00:48:28] Colonel Bob Sink certainly was one of the best.
[00:48:30] He set high standards and never compromised on those standards.
[00:48:35] After the parachute, the 506th parachute, parachute infantry regiment earned their
[00:48:41] jump wings.
[00:48:42] Sink granted a 10 day furlough.
[00:48:45] Sink cautioned him men to conduct themselves appropriately.
[00:48:48] Several parachuteers reported late for duty after their furloughs expired.
[00:48:53] Sink called another regimental formation and publicly humiliated one paratrooper from
[00:48:59] each of his nine companies.
[00:49:03] They called out the name of the last soldier to report to duty.
[00:49:07] And that paratrooper was marched in front of the formation under escort.
[00:49:12] An officer stripped him of his unit patch.
[00:49:16] Forced into unblouses boots.
[00:49:20] And then escorted him from the field.
[00:49:23] What Sink was saying was paratroopers may be elite, but they had to follow the army's rules and regulations.
[00:49:30] I liked that.
[00:49:31] For some reason Sink liked me.
[00:49:34] Respected me.
[00:49:35] He was always the man instrumental in getting me my next job.
[00:49:39] So there's a heavy punishment.
[00:49:41] Now that's a clear message being sent.
[00:49:46] Clear message being sent.
[00:49:49] And I bet Colonel Sink at that time weighed.
[00:49:55] He's got three nine companies.
[00:49:59] So he's got hundreds and hundreds of guys.
[00:50:02] Hundreds and hundreds of guys.
[00:50:04] And he's going to make an example out of nine of them.
[00:50:07] And he's going to be a real clear example.
[00:50:09] And that's going to leave an impression on a thousand guys.
[00:50:12] You know close to a thousand guys.
[00:50:15] That might be worth it.
[00:50:17] And he probably judged that it was worth it.
[00:50:19] Yeah.
[00:50:20] So interesting perspective.
[00:50:22] Yeah.
[00:50:23] I guess the question is, is that fair?
[00:50:25] I would say to the guys that got booted from the regiment.
[00:50:32] I'd say their thoughts were that it was unfair.
[00:50:35] I would say for the guys that remained in the regiment that realized that they had to maintain the standard that realize there was going to be no slack.
[00:50:43] And that worked hard to make sure they maintain that.
[00:50:46] And therefore we're more prepared for combat.
[00:50:49] That's it was real fair.
[00:50:51] Right.
[00:50:52] It's a bigger picture kind of thing.
[00:50:53] They were kind of the martyr.
[00:50:54] Yeah.
[00:50:55] That gets a real big picture thing.
[00:50:57] And who knows what kind of behind the scenes.
[00:51:01] We would have to get some details.
[00:51:02] If we were really going to cast judgment on that.
[00:51:04] Like, you know, maybe some of those guys were kind of slackers.
[00:51:07] Anyways.
[00:51:08] Yeah.
[00:51:08] And the company commander was like, hey dude, yeah, we don't want this guy.
[00:51:11] You know, let's get rid of this guy.
[00:51:12] Or you know, yeah.
[00:51:13] And he only took certain members of the people that missed their furlough.
[00:51:17] He's so he's even.
[00:51:18] That's not fair.
[00:51:19] He only took certain members or certain people that missed their furlough.
[00:51:23] Didn't take all of them.
[00:51:24] Yeah.
[00:51:25] Just the last one to report.
[00:51:26] We don't, we don't take that around here.
[00:51:28] It's an interesting dynamic.
[00:51:30] No.
[00:51:31] It's an interesting dynamic.
[00:51:32] But it's definitely showing.
[00:51:34] I don't know that I necessarily would have done that.
[00:51:37] I can, I might have sent my assessment.
[00:51:41] I probably wouldn't have.
[00:51:42] Yeah.
[00:51:43] Not one guy from each company.
[00:51:45] Maybe like the two guys that grossly violated it.
[00:51:48] I don't think I would need to do nine.
[00:51:50] Yeah.
[00:51:51] I guess what Colonel Sank did.
[00:51:53] Don't mess with Colonel Sank.
[00:51:55] And that's a good thing.
[00:51:57] Little little kind of image for you to have.
[00:52:01] Don't mess with Colonel Sank.
[00:52:03] Don't mess around with the battalion.
[00:52:04] In the regiment.
[00:52:05] We don't play.
[00:52:06] Another leader that he talks about here is McCallough.
[00:52:12] Back to the book.
[00:52:13] What we liked about McCallough was that he allowed us to do our jobs.
[00:52:18] You didn't have a lot of interference from McCallough.
[00:52:22] But with Taylor and command, this is another person, he told you what you needed to do here.
[00:52:27] He had to run everything.
[00:52:30] You can't do a good job if you don't have the chance to use your imagination and creativity.
[00:52:35] In my mind, Taylor was more interested in impressing his superiors than watching out for his men.
[00:52:42] Taylor was such a contrast with British general Montgomery.
[00:52:47] So he talks a little bit.
[00:52:48] Okay.
[00:52:49] So first of all, clearly decentralized command don't give people the clear specifics on how to do every little thing.
[00:52:55] Let them get creative.
[00:52:56] Let them come up with a solution.
[00:52:57] Perfect.
[00:52:58] Boom.
[00:52:59] Over and over again.
[00:53:00] Why do we hear it over and over again?
[00:53:01] Because it's right.
[00:53:03] Because it's right.
[00:53:04] That's why we hear it over and over again.
[00:53:05] Now we talk about the famous British general Montgomery Monti who always gets portrayed a little bit stiff and a little bit British.
[00:53:16] Right.
[00:53:17] And he says in here that the writers don't didn't know him.
[00:53:20] Didn't see him on the battlefield.
[00:53:21] Didn't see what he was like.
[00:53:23] And here's what he says.
[00:53:24] Here's what Dickwinner said about Montgomery.
[00:53:27] Back to the book Montgomery was the real deal.
[00:53:30] I saw him on a number of occasions and he always impressed me as a commander who lived the lifestyle that was beyond reproach for his staff to follow.
[00:53:39] He set the example.
[00:53:41] He addressed every division that was scheduled to participate in the invasion.
[00:53:45] He called us together and had every soldier take off his helmet.
[00:53:50] So he could see the troops better.
[00:53:53] Yeah.
[00:53:55] They're going around and
[00:53:58] and talking to every single division.
[00:54:02] And then say hey boys, take off your helmets.
[00:54:05] I want to see your face is before you roll.
[00:54:07] It's legit.
[00:54:09] Props.
[00:54:13] There's this book a lot of this books about Self Discipline.
[00:54:16] Even this part right here back to the book.
[00:54:18] Self discipline keeps you doing your job.
[00:54:21] Without it you lose your pride.
[00:54:23] pride and forget the importance of self-respect and the eyes of your fellow men. Pride keeps you going on.
[00:54:31] This is what I feared I would lose the loss of the will to measure up to my men. So once you say,
[00:54:37] you know what, I don't care what my guys think anymore. You've lost it, right? Mm-hmm. If I say
[00:54:44] look, I don't care what the guys think of me. Think of what a driving force it is to have your team
[00:54:48] looking at you and saying, I'm going to make sure these guys respect me and I'm proud of what I'm
[00:54:52] doing compared to, I don't care what I knew and thanks to me anymore. You can see when this happens to
[00:54:57] people, I'm not just in the military or business organization, but in life, in life. At a certain point,
[00:55:04] you see a bomb in the street. At a certain point, that bomb said, you know what, I don't care when
[00:55:09] anyone thinks of me anymore. Yeah. I don't care what my family thinks. Me, I don't care what the society thinks
[00:55:13] of me. Yeah. Of course, I'm not talking on every single bomb, but a lot of them. Yeah, that's how you
[00:55:19] know, I don't care. Generally the thing. And the way soon as you see that, you can imagine that,
[00:55:26] that's just like a life thing, right? Yeah. If you go through life and you don't care what
[00:55:29] anyone else thinks, which is a contradiction for me, right? Because I'll say all the time like,
[00:55:33] I don't care what people think. Yeah. But that's just to agree. Like you and it's obvious,
[00:55:39] and just put a little bit of thought into you don't care about what people think well as it appears.
[00:55:42] You don't care what people think on a superficial level, you know, on a profound level, you do.
[00:55:48] That's why you're, you know, that's why party your morality is like, you know, fairness doing the
[00:55:53] right thing, all this discipline, stuff. It's for you. But in regards to social cues and all these
[00:56:01] things like that, that's beneficial to your success, the function and the society. Yeah, and I've said
[00:56:06] this before, like, about the sealed teams and me being in the sealed teams. And I had this completely
[00:56:11] had this attitude. I don't care, like, for instance, I don't care what happens. Like, I don't care if
[00:56:17] I get fired. I'm going to do the right thing. I don't care. I don't care what they think of me. And
[00:56:20] at the same thing, at the same time, there's nothing that was more important to me than my reputation
[00:56:25] of the sealed teams. I don't want, you know, if if something was going to give you a bad
[00:56:30] reputation, like what we just talked about, if you fall out of a patrol as a leader or as anyone.
[00:56:34] Like, if you fall out of a patrol, you're going to no one's ever going to forget it in the sealed
[00:56:39] teams. If you're too weak to do something, you're going to be remembered by that forever. And that,
[00:56:43] I didn't want that ever. It's a be like, oh, Jocco did this. Jocco couldn't finish patrol. Jocco was a
[00:56:49] bad leader, Jocco. I didn't want that to be the reality. Yeah. And so therefore you work hard. You
[00:56:55] stay in shape. You do your best all the time. Yeah. And that drives you. Yeah. But at the same time,
[00:57:02] I wasn't saying, oh, I, I'm concerned what my boss thinks of me. So I'm going to act a certain way.
[00:57:08] No, I was trying to do the right thing for the teams. Right. The same thing. No, like these are all
[00:57:15] teams. Those are all fundamental things. Yeah. You know, we're balanced. So to say, look,
[00:57:22] I don't care if I get promoted, but I care more than anything about my job. You know,
[00:57:27] I mean, yeah, and that definitely was my attitude. That definitely was my attitude. My whole
[00:57:32] time all's in the military. Look, I'm, I'm going to do the best job I can. I'm not doing it to get
[00:57:35] promoted. I'm not doing it for that reason. Yeah. But I am part of it. Absolutely doing it to have
[00:57:42] the respect of my peers and my brothers and the teams. Right. You rep, you know, rep, you hear the
[00:57:47] old time and reputations, everything in the field teams. Because it's a small group of people. You know,
[00:57:51] you have an accident on discharge with your weapon. Everybody knows about it. And they're going to
[00:57:55] know about it forever. If you, if you remain on the teams for whatever reason, after you have an
[00:57:59] accident with this charge, everyone's going to know it from there on out. And it's not fun. That's
[00:58:06] where we got Matt and Jacked up nicknames in the seal. Because you're going to get nicknamed after
[00:58:11] your lowest point in your life. Biggest mistake is what you're going to get nicknamed or your biggest
[00:58:17] yeah. Like there was a guy and his nickname was Bush and he's a great dude. The nickname was Bush.
[00:58:25] He had nothing to do with the last name. But anyways, long story short, when he was a new guy.
[00:58:29] And I, I knew him. This is 15 years later. I found this out. He's so he'd been in the
[00:58:33] sealed teams for 15 years. I know him as Bush the whole time. And he was parachuting. Brand new guy
[00:58:41] showed up the team. They're like, hey, you're going jump today. Okay. It gets into aircraft jumps.
[00:58:45] And he lands. Foonal fall. You can't even steer these brown parachutes. You can't barely
[00:58:50] stare him. He lands in a bush with like thorns in it. Right. And I guess it looks pretty funny. And
[00:58:55] from there on. Yeah. What's his name? Bush. Yeah. So you're going to get a name like that. But that's
[00:59:02] that's a really easy example. Because everybody knows that's just funny. It was more of a funny
[00:59:06] thing. If you something funny happens to you, you might get that nickname too. Like if you get
[00:59:11] pepper sprayed by the cops, you might have the nickname pepper. Which I like the direct. It is.
[00:59:18] Yeah. There's no sense in playing around. What else do you get to call some of that
[00:59:21] gets pepper sprayed by the cops or their new guy? You're going to call him pepper. You're calling
[00:59:25] when I hear something. When I. Yeah. You know, because you guys get all watery. You're not
[00:59:29] you're not going to charge a nickname. When we were your guy. But you thought his name was his name was
[00:59:35] Al. Yeah. But it was Al 50 Cal. Not even his name. Yeah. But he was in big Al 50 Cal.
[00:59:40] Yeah. Yeah. Morphs. That's awesome. So that's why you have this weird dichotomy that's pulling
[00:59:51] it to you is just to you're looking at your your friends, your peers in this in a relationship
[00:59:57] position. It's your men. You're looking at your men saying, hey, I don't want to let these guys down.
[01:00:01] I don't want them to view me as weak. Weeks. Bad word. But I guess it's the word I'm looking for.
[01:00:07] You know, I'm not that I not that I want to maintain the image of strength because part of
[01:00:11] maintaining the image of strength is by showing weakness. Right. Being like, I just said this all
[01:00:16] time. Hey, I don't know how to do this. Hey, can you me a suggestion? I'm not talking about that type of thing.
[01:00:21] I'm talking about. We physical weakness. Physical and mental toughness or physical mental weakness.
[01:00:31] Right. That's a lot different than hey, I don't understand how to do something or it's a lot
[01:00:34] different than humility. You can you can want to show you can want to maintain strength.
[01:00:39] But still have humility for sure. Yeah. Well, I know all kinds. I mean, I know tons of guys
[01:00:46] that are completely humble, but they're the toughest bastard you ever want. No mentally and physically.
[01:00:52] So I'm not talking about I need to be strong. Strong. Strong within everyone. No, I'm not talking
[01:00:56] about that at all. I'm talking about you physical and mental toughness you have to have. And if you don't
[01:01:00] have them as a leader, could be problematic. Watch out for it. Back to the book, the big thing I
[01:01:09] derived from combat was the necessity of maintaining discipline. Discipline in our troops was
[01:01:15] discipline in our troops and getting the job done in combat. So clearly, disciplines big part
[01:01:20] of what we're talking about here. G, I wonder why. Now, this is talking another little aspect
[01:01:29] that you know, I don't talk about this a lot. I think it's inherent in a lot of things that I say,
[01:01:35] but it's not something that I don't use this word a lot. And again, I think I need to use it more
[01:01:39] back to the book, character revolves around doing the right thing all the time.
[01:01:45] Character implies daily choices of right over wrong. The cadet prayer at West Point
[01:01:54] says cadet strive to choose the harder right instead of the easier wrong and never to be content
[01:02:02] with a half truth when the whole can be one. That gets to the heart of character. I would add
[01:02:10] that it is easier to do the right thing when everyone is looking. It is more difficult to do
[01:02:17] what you should do when you are alone. I like to think of character as every other virtue
[01:02:26] at the breaking point. So character doing the right thing, doing the right thing in all times,
[01:02:34] doing the right thing when you're alone. Back to the book, war doesn't alter character.
[01:02:44] War merely brings out the best that an individual has to offer. Unfortunately, it also brings
[01:02:53] forth the worst in some men. If anything, war exposes the best and worst of those who are
[01:03:01] called the fight. I know of no man who lacked character and peace and then discovered
[01:03:08] character in combat. I've said this same type of thing before, especially
[01:03:18] we see on deployment as pressure starts to build on people. You start seeing people go into
[01:03:24] directions. That's what we'd say. This character would start to reveal itself. They either get
[01:03:29] very, they'd rise to the occasion or they would not. They'd go in the other direction and become
[01:03:35] worse. Their character would become worse or their character would become better. That's what I've
[01:03:42] seen. The same thing we talk about people that have maybe have a hard time dealing with war.
[01:03:49] A lot of times there are some pre-existing issues that the war inflames. If you take someone that
[01:03:58] doesn't have pre-existing issues or maybe has a positive spin on things, that becomes more positive.
[01:04:05] It's very, and there's a bunch of people in the middle. Some of the guys that I knew that really
[01:04:09] had a hard time, they had issues going in. They had problems, some issues going in to the situation,
[01:04:18] going into war and those problems get exacerbated by the pressure and the stress of combat.
[01:04:24] We need to watch out for that one. I think war is more of an amplifier that a creator.
[01:04:32] I think it amplifies good character. I think it amplifies bad character. I think it amplifies
[01:04:37] issues in either direction. It's a powerful element to add into people's lives. This big
[01:04:51] intense piece. One of the things that this book captures is these letters. He had a pen pal,
[01:05:04] a female pen pal when he was at war. Her name is Diaet Alman. One of the things is that he,
[01:05:13] he's a capture of these letters. Some of the letters parts of some of the letters are published
[01:05:17] in here. Here's one of them back to the book first, and most important. I've got my own conscience
[01:05:23] to answer to. Next, my parents, and then I am an officer in the US Army. I am damn proud of it,
[01:05:30] and with the rank and position I hold. I wouldn't think of doing anything to bring
[01:05:36] discredit to my outfit. My parachute for boots, wings, the airborne patch, or the US Army.
[01:05:43] Good morale within an outfit is usually reflected by good conduct away from it.
[01:05:51] That sounds like an idealistic high school kid. I know, but that's it. That's how I feel.
[01:06:01] So he took that stuff very, very seriously. And I remember, I remember, I'm going to do
[01:06:11] free war. I was in my third putoon. And the new guys, who are all my brothers now, I mean,
[01:06:21] these are just mugs, but they were new guys, and we were the senior older guys, right?
[01:06:25] Because we've been in the teams for like a couple of years. And something happened,
[01:06:32] and we gave like a, like, a, like, hey guys, don't, don't ever make the putoon look bad. Like,
[01:06:40] no matter what, you don't make the putoon look bad. That's not allowed.
[01:06:43] The putoon comes first above everything. And this one, oh, I just remember,
[01:06:49] say, but then one guy made the putoon look bad and he had to pay for it. But that's the attitude.
[01:06:55] The attitude is like, look, you don't make the putoon look bad. You don't make the teams look bad.
[01:07:00] We didn't really, we weren't too concerned with the navy back then. We didn't really even feel like,
[01:07:04] when I was that young and the shield teams, we weren't even thinking about the big navy.
[01:07:07] We barely even recognized it. We were in the teams. It's more, it's as the teams became bigger
[01:07:15] and more prevalent. We connected more with the big navy. When I was a new guy in the suit,
[01:07:21] when I was in the suit, it was a young guy in the 90s. We were pretty much on our own. So I wasn't,
[01:07:26] I basically, I wasn't like sitting there thinking, I need to protect the reputation of the navy.
[01:07:29] I didn't care. I wouldn't now. I got an old ride, did. But back in the day, it was like, hey,
[01:07:35] the putoon. And I was at team one at the time and team one. You know, make team one look bad. What are you doing?
[01:07:41] Don't make this putoon look bad. You just did that. Yeah. Now you have to pay for that.
[01:07:47] Punishment will be delivered at this time. Okay, and it was. That's an unfortunate situation.
[01:07:56] You know, these things just happened. So are we not going into what the punishment was that day?
[01:08:01] The punishment. The punishment was, I'll tell you what the punishment was.
[01:08:09] Jockel punishment. The punishment was, I am going to strike you two times in the face with an open hand.
[01:08:14] That's your punishment. Or we're going to fight. Which one do you want? That was the punishment.
[01:08:21] He in this guy was like, I'll take the two. Yeah. And I was like, Roger that. And it was a little bit more
[01:08:26] tension than that. You know? Yeah, fully. That's because he was going to like bow it up a little bit. Yeah.
[01:08:31] And I was like, oh, if you want to get it on, we'll get it on. Yeah. And then. And you know, it's funny because these guys,
[01:08:37] this group of guys who is, they were, they were all guys just trying to get after it and be good team guys. But we were just crazy.
[01:08:45] You know, at this point in the teams was literally everything in my life. So when I was like mad
[01:08:51] about disrespecting or making the little tune look bad, it like hurt me. I was that crazy
[01:08:58] that I just didn't want the little tune look bad. You know, and you did something that made the
[01:09:02] little tune look bad. It bothered me. It really truly bothered me. You made something that made team one look.
[01:09:09] I mean, I had been there. You know, since I was a kid and it was everything to me. And so when you
[01:09:14] didn't, when you made us look bad, I wasn't happy. And not just I wasn't happy because I was a jerk or I
[01:09:21] wasn't that because I was a being a jerk at the time. But talking these guys, you know years later,
[01:09:26] you talk these guys. They're like, yeah, that guy in particular is like, I hated going to work. I hated
[01:09:30] you guys. And I was like, yeah, I'm sorry. You know, and then they'll be like, but I'm glad it was like that.
[01:09:38] Because everybody has that feeling. It was the old schools. Like with the old breed, you know,
[01:09:42] hey, that's the way it is. This is the real delight. We don't make the between look bad. We make the
[01:09:46] between look good. We work hard. That's what we do. It was like a little gang. Yeah, that's all it was.
[01:09:52] Yeah, that's crazy. Those two choices because they're like, they're just different. Because some
[01:09:56] people would rather go do the fight because, you know, at least they kind of go now and swing in kind of
[01:10:02] attitude. But the potential for damage is way more annoying. You know, same, but and then I agree with you.
[01:10:09] And you could see where you could make a case for both of those selections. But there's also something
[01:10:13] called it's like, I'll take two hits to the face. You open hand cool. I'm a man. I screwed up. I think that's
[01:10:19] the reason I respected it was because it was like, yeah, I did screw up. Right. So I'll just take it. I deserve punishment.
[01:10:27] Give it to me. Yeah. And that was that. Yeah. Well, that didn't we move on. No factor. Yeah,
[01:10:32] technically the two to the face are is way easier because it's way quicker. You, you know, you know,
[01:10:38] what to expect kind of that. I mean, unless you're scared of like, oh, hitting your head and dying or
[01:10:43] some, you know, some off the end. They're open hand. Yeah. See, so you're not going to knock anybody out
[01:10:48] with the open hand. Yeah. Well, I could be usually you're not, you know, maybe I could. I'm just kidding.
[01:10:53] But yeah. So a lot of that is like that. How you say you're kind of building some tension with it. It's like
[01:10:58] that's a big part of the punishment as well. That's psychological torture. Yeah. And this also
[01:11:03] reveals my own personal image. Right. These are, this is, it like seriously. This is, when I'm thinking
[01:11:09] about it, this is just an amateur, you know, I was probably 22 years old, maybe 23 years old, but
[01:11:16] you know, young and immature and not getting the best guidance, not understanding things, not
[01:11:22] understanding that I wasn't helping build a cohesive unit, not understanding that this guy's
[01:11:27] probably thinking, oh, I don't want to help him. And you know what I mean? It wasn't smart. I'm not,
[01:11:30] I'm not trying to say that this stuff was smart. I'm telling you the reality of the way it was.
[01:11:34] And the way it was in my head was, hey, this is my life. Yeah. This is your plateau. And I know it's,
[01:11:41] it sounds crazy. This is your plateau that we're in is my whole life. And I actually don't care about
[01:11:47] anything else. Mind you, this is in the 90s. There's no war going on. I'm just a young,
[01:11:52] crazy kid and the only thing I know and the only thing I care about is the seal teams. And you know,
[01:11:58] you make the other, the two look bad. This pollton is my life. And you just made us look bad. And I,
[01:12:05] I can't stand that. And I don't want it to be that way. So young immature me, what do I do?
[01:12:12] Hey, there's gotta be punishment. You know, and that's kind of the attitude we had. And
[01:12:19] there are some benefits to it. But the, you know, it's our way, if I would love to go back and be a
[01:12:24] better mentor and be like, hey, man, this is the mistake you made. You know, we need to make,
[01:12:28] you know, I would love to do that. But you can't, you're dumb. I was a young, dumb kid that was raised
[01:12:35] that way by the way as well. That's how we were raised. Yeah. And there are some benefits to it.
[01:12:39] And like I said, even those guys that did pollton's with me when I was quote unquote an old guy,
[01:12:44] even though we were nothing, we'd never been to combat. We were meaningless. But we had a couple
[01:12:49] more years in the suit team. So therefore, you're an old guy and the new guys are anyone with with no
[01:12:54] deployments, which is actually pathetic in its own right. Because the term in the suit teams
[01:13:01] being, oh, you're a new guy, that was from guys that were in Vietnam that you hadn't been in combat.
[01:13:07] Yeah. So you're a new boy. You're a cherry boy. So guess what? I was a cherry boy for 13 years
[01:13:13] because I never shot my weapon at the end of the end. I didn't been in combat until I went to my
[01:13:16] first deployment to Iraq. So there's actually from that perspective it's embarrassing because here I was
[01:13:21] big, you know, I'm an old guy. I wasn't an old guy. And they were going to combat before. One of my
[01:13:25] talking about. Yeah. But you, you, you take what you had at the time, which was this organization,
[01:13:31] the seal teams, my platoon. And again, you can't, I can't describe really how important the seal
[01:13:37] platoon was to me. It was, well, let me put it this way. It was my whole life. There you go.
[01:13:43] What did I do when I woke up in the morning went in, went into work, worked out with my seal platoon mates.
[01:13:48] What do we do? Then we worked all day. What do we do for lunch? We ate together. What do we do at night?
[01:13:52] We went and got dinner. What do we do after that? We went and had drinks. What do we do after that?
[01:13:56] We hung out all night. What do we do after that? We went to sleep, woke up and did the same thing
[01:13:59] at day after day. That was my family. And you just have this passion for your family. And you,
[01:14:07] it just meant, it was the most important thing in the world to me for my whole adult life. But when you take
[01:14:12] that and you put that on a young kid. And you know, everyone's like, oh, yeah, Jockel's, he's a big
[01:14:19] reader. I wasn't reading anything back then. I was reading the platoon handbook, right? I wasn't reading.
[01:14:26] I wasn't reading Shakespeare. Sure. Yeah. I wasn't doing it high school. I wasn't paying
[01:14:32] attention during high school. I was wanting to be a command-up. I was running through the woods,
[01:14:36] pretending I had a machine gun. So you take that kid and you put him in a situation where the
[01:14:43] thing that he cares about the most has been. Scorn, violated, or scored. He's going to try and handle it.
[01:14:51] Yeah. To the best of his abilities. Start slapping people again. Not proud of it, but occasionally
[01:14:56] some people that slapped around. Yeah, that's how though. You know, when you're basic young,
[01:15:01] basic guy, you're going to handle things in a young, basic kind of way? Yeah. Yeah, whatever. It's caveman.
[01:15:07] Yes, caveman scenario. There you go. And the other thing is, and you know, those guys that were in
[01:15:13] those early platoons, when I was like a set of quote unquote, lears later. They're like, yeah,
[01:15:18] that was awesome. So glad I got raised that way. They're proud of it. Yeah. You know, but at the same time,
[01:15:23] you, you, when I look back on it, I know I was not a good leader, right? But any stretch. Yeah,
[01:15:34] that's kind of like when I look at my old videos, you know, at the time, like, yeah, they were dope.
[01:15:38] You know, but you're like, you just know better ways now. You know, you're just better now.
[01:15:43] Yeah, you know, I can say 2020 when I'm. Yeah, and then the other thing you got to be careful of
[01:15:47] is setting the, like, let's say I was in a seal platoon right now. And now I'm going to set the bar so high
[01:15:54] that I've lose track of the, lose vision of the fact that like, hey, the guy that I'm trying to convince
[01:15:59] right now is a 23 year old thing and the most important thing in his world is this is 20.
[01:16:04] Like I was talking to someone the other day and I was going to remember what seal platoon, what
[01:16:08] the phonetic letter of a certain seal platoon I was in at a certain time. I was like, after you what
[01:16:12] platoon I was and to me at the time when we were in those seal platoons that letter of that
[01:16:19] phonetic alphabet we were in alpha platoon. That was it. And now I look back and it's like, oh,
[01:16:25] yeah, what platoon was that? Because as I matured and as I saw the rest of the world, I realized that
[01:16:31] even though a seal platoon is very important and certainly it's the most important thing when you're in it.
[01:16:34] When you're in a task unit or your overseas and there's multiple people running around and
[01:16:39] there's huge missions going, you you open your mind gets opened up and you see more and the
[01:16:47] little thing that you used to be so engulfed in your head becomes, becomes less. That's all there
[01:16:54] is to it. Now I'm telling you, guys, in the seal platoon there's no better job. It gets the best thing
[01:16:59] in the world and I'm sure, you know, I never served in a Marine Corps infantry platoon or in an
[01:17:04] army, US Army and Ptupatumba. I saw them. I saw what they were like and they have that same
[01:17:12] bond that you get from being in those tough units. So there's something very cool about that
[01:17:19] about being a grunt. Which is what you are in the seal teams. You might think on the special operations
[01:17:25] or whatever you're a grunt. You carry a machine gun. And you do hard things. That's what being a grunt is.
[01:17:33] You're doing hard things. You're carrying a bunch of weight around. Love those days. Love those days.
[01:17:47] So I just want to be back in the seal team. Yeah, so fast. So awesome. So awesome. So meaningful.
[01:17:55] I would have fought you. Yeah, you should get it. Yeah, yeah. It would have been what happened.
[01:17:59] You know what would have happened. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was one of the good things about
[01:18:08] knowing a little tiny bit of jujitsu, which I actually knew a little bit. Yeah, that was enough.
[01:18:13] Yeah, you can offer the fight guys with, you know, with the combat industry.
[01:18:16] Because what if you offer the fight them and they kick your ass. You're like dang,
[01:18:18] you might not backfired. And here's the thing. They didn't know any better. All they thought was,
[01:18:22] they didn't, I don't think I ever said like, I know jujitsu and you don't. But it was just I was so
[01:18:27] confident. Like, oh, I actually know this and I know that I can choke this dude.
[01:18:31] Then they just said, you know what, this guy's probably going to kick my ass. Yeah. And the weird
[01:18:34] thing is there's probably guys along the way that could have kicked my ass. You know, some kid that
[01:18:38] wrestled in high school, we all double leg boom. And now I'm slammed on the ground and getting
[01:18:43] punched in the head. I don't, I can't, you know, it's less than not learned. Yeah, less than not learned.
[01:18:48] I'm lucky that never happened. So check. All right.
[01:18:54] Here we're talking about, so I just was talking about this is interesting. So I was just talking
[01:19:02] about mental strength and physical strength. Well, here we go. Back to the book, Mori
[01:19:07] Current Courage is a far rare commodity than physical courage. In that I agree with Paton. I have
[01:19:13] known many officers who were physically brave, but who did not have the intestinal fortitude to
[01:19:18] organize the chaos around them. Those officers who were the most vocal about what they were going
[01:19:25] to do to the enemy, often were the first to fall apart when the chips were down. Fear is not only
[01:19:33] debilitating, but its existence also destroys the cohesion of a command. It is the responsibility
[01:19:40] of a commander to identify the limits of courage, break the paralysis of fear, and motivate
[01:19:45] his soldiers to continue with the mission. Courage Conqueror's fear. I like just that part, and I
[01:19:55] don't think I did this in helmet for my pillow. There was a part in helmet for my pillow that I
[01:19:59] pulled out, and I was talking to one of my seal buddies, and I was, because he listened to it. Yeah,
[01:20:02] I was telling him this one part that I didn't put in the podcast. And I sent him a picture of it
[01:20:07] from the book, this little paragraph. But it's basically one of the instructors, one of the
[01:20:11] drone structures was all yelling about or going to kill and blah, blah, blah, and then he says,
[01:20:17] yeah, the next time I saw him, we were in, you know, on island in the fight, and he was getting
[01:20:23] taken away after breaking down. So this is what he's saying here. A lot of guys are going to
[01:20:28] allow us to about what they're going to do to the enemy. Yeah, okay. You're talking to a big game,
[01:20:33] you know, but what's really good to say that happen? You know what else that happens? UFC. Yeah.
[01:20:37] Right. MMA it happens. Yeah. I'm going to come to crush that guy and the other guys say they're
[01:20:43] going to, okay, bring it. Yeah. Or he's in the locker room like explaining to all these teammates. Yeah,
[01:20:48] I'll just, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that. And it's almost like, yeah, it's weird.
[01:20:52] Trying to, they're trying to convince themselves. Yeah. So that's what that's what's going on here.
[01:20:56] Same thing. Right. Some of them trying to convince themselves. They're not confident in themselves.
[01:21:00] Yeah. Back to the book. I suspect every soldier at one time or another experiences a degree of fear.
[01:21:07] Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the willingness to rise above fear and do the
[01:21:13] things you know need to be accomplished. All soldiers hope that they will measure up the first time
[01:21:21] they get into a fight. I certainly was no exception, but I believe I had prepared myself very well
[01:21:26] that once I came under fire, I knew instinctively what needed to be done. I think I was more
[01:21:34] apprehensive particularly before D-Day than I was afraid. Maybe apprehension is the first stage of
[01:21:41] fear. I'm not really sure. You have to remember that easy company was an elite unit as we're all
[01:21:47] territories. We had trained for nearly two years before we jumped into Normandy. I think I saw
[01:21:53] far more excitement in the eyes of my men than I did fear. After break-art, we felt as if we were
[01:22:01] seasoned veterans even though we knew worst days were ahead. That apprehension and definitely my first
[01:22:13] deployment to Iraq when you had all these guys grow. The guys were so fired up to get into due real
[01:22:22] missions and get after it that I think it was much more excitement than it was fear. Especially in the
[01:22:29] beginning and at the beginning you know there was a lot of casualties going on. We were kind of dominating
[01:22:34] and you know even shown up to her body same thing. Guys like sign me up what mission I'm going
[01:22:40] to do. And the more you spend time in that and the more you realize what the threat is and
[01:22:45] you start losing guys or having guys get wounded that's when you start saying okay wait a second.
[01:22:51] I'm not sure I want to die today and then guys got to overcome that on a daily basis.
[01:22:59] Speaking of fear, Steve Ambrose, who's a military historian, written a bunch of books including
[01:23:04] band of brothers, Steve Ambrose says that heavy artillery bombardment will make even the most seasoned
[01:23:10] veteran eventually brick. I disagree. A leader has to overcome fear convince himself that every
[01:23:19] enemy shell or bullet is not targeting him. The same is true in a company or a battalion.
[01:23:26] Leaders must ensure that strength and cohesion is a stronger force than fear. This is especially
[01:23:31] true in men who have been scarred by prolonged combat. Ambrose was correct when he titled the chapter
[01:23:38] band of in band of brothers breaking point. As he describes the horrendous artillery barrage that
[01:23:43] inflicted so many casualties on easy company in the boy's jocks. Company strength was below 50%
[01:23:51] and many of the non-commissioned officers were killed or wounded. Without direct supervision by
[01:23:58] leaders, easy company as well as the remainder of the battalion could have easily been debilitated
[01:24:04] by an increased sense of morality and fear. That is precisely why I made it a point to visit the
[01:24:11] frontlines as often as possible. Soldiers need to sense that their leaders and commanders
[01:24:19] are in the game with them. Leadership by example is even more important in these situations.
[01:24:31] I noticed that when manner at the edge of their physical endurance you tend to develop that
[01:24:36] 1000 yard stare that you always read about. Tired soldiers will often take off their helmet
[01:24:41] and run their fingers through their hair. I talked about that before and I talked about that quite
[01:24:46] often now. At times they literally drop their helmets on the ground. This soldier is already losing
[01:24:53] his self-respect. The battle is half lost. That's a sign for the commander to take a media action.
[01:25:02] I didn't wait for the trooper to reach that stage. I proactively looked for these signs.
[01:25:07] Every soldier wants to do the right thing. You always know the proper thing to do
[01:25:11] but doing it is sometimes more difficult. I never wanted a man to lose his self-respect.
[01:25:19] That's what I was talking about earlier. This thing of self-respect. When you don't care
[01:25:24] because you're supposed to keep your gear on all the time. That's just the code. You keep your
[01:25:30] gear with you all the time. You keep your gear all the time. The minute you take that off is where you
[01:25:35] start. You're hanging out with what these guys think anymore. Something has happened that has made
[01:25:40] you say, I don't care what these guys think anymore. That's not good. This is such a contradiction
[01:25:46] because we consider talking about, I don't care what people think. I mean that. I mean that. You shouldn't
[01:25:51] care what people think. But at the same time, it should be extremely important to what people think
[01:25:57] and what your comrades think. That's such a weird dichotomy. I don't think I've fully wrapped my hands
[01:26:01] around how to describe that yet and what that means. I'll get there eventually. Hopefully. But
[01:26:06] that is a very important thing. I've always felt like I don't care what people think. But at the
[01:26:12] same time, I deeply care what my peers think and my men think. We're dichotomy. I think that's a
[01:26:22] core value. You have these core values. That's what you care about. You know what you think about
[01:26:27] or what everyone else thinks. But anything beyond that is just superficial fluff. If you don't match
[01:26:32] your socks, I think what the key principle here or the part that may help bring this together for me
[01:26:37] is I want to be doing the right thing. Right. And so if I'm doing the right thing and people say,
[01:26:44] oh, that's stupid what Joc was doing or he shouldn't be doing that. But I know in my heart,
[01:26:51] I'm doing the right thing. Yeah. I'm going to continue doing it. I don't care what you think. Yeah.
[01:26:55] There you go. But at the same time, if I know I'm doing the right thing and other people are
[01:27:01] judging me, that's going to keep me in line. If I, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me
[01:27:05] raise that. If I feel like I'm going to do the wrong thing, I do care what people think. Yeah.
[01:27:11] And I don't want them to think. Oh, Joc was getting weak, getting soft, getting, you know,
[01:27:14] whatever. Yeah. He's doing the wrong thing. He's making the wrong move. Mm-hmm. Very strange.
[01:27:21] That's the, that's the dichotomy leadership, right? Or one of them. Actually, it's not really the
[01:27:24] dichotomy leadership. That's just a dichotomy in life. Yeah, life, yeah. Now there's a
[01:27:36] a guy named Lieutenant Compton who kind of breaks a little bit and they show it in the band
[01:27:44] of brothers movie and they he, Dick Winner's talks about it here. Back to the book, before you go on,
[01:27:52] I know you think I'm too hard on Lieutenant Compton for walking off the line at best, don't.
[01:27:58] Let me explain myself. Buck, that's Lieutenant Compton was nicknamed Buck and he walked
[01:28:02] off the line. Buck was a great combat leader. He was a superb platoon leader and Normandy and Holland.
[01:28:10] In fact, I would say he was one of the best at best. At best, stone, he broke after some of his friends
[01:28:16] were seriously wounded in the constant artillery barrages. There is a danger of getting
[01:28:22] too close to the men and Buck crossed that line. When you see your friends getting maimed,
[01:28:29] it makes it more difficult to go on. That's why I always maintained a certain detachment from the
[01:28:36] parachute prison easy company. Am I too harsh on Buck? Maybe, but a leader needs to rise above fear.
[01:28:43] The easiest thing to do is quit. And then the author asks, why didn't you crack and Dick Winner's
[01:28:54] responses, I'm Pennsylvania Dutch. I don't quit. I made a commitment. Moral courage is based on
[01:29:02] physical fitness. Courage is a combination of willpower and determination and determination.
[01:29:09] I was an excellent physical shape. I don't think there was a man in the out that outfit who's
[01:29:15] in better shape than I was and it showed. I had trained hard. In England, after we finished training,
[01:29:21] I would run at night. Blackout conditions, but I would run. Then I'd come in and go to bed. I was
[01:29:27] in maximum shape. That was the physical side of things, but there is a mental aspect of stamina as
[01:29:33] well. I've always prideed myself that I do my own thinking. I have my own philosophy. I have my own
[01:29:39] answers to the reasons things have turned out in my life. By taking full accountability for my life,
[01:29:47] I've been able to meet the standards that I set for myself. I don't know any other way of saying it.
[01:29:55] Every commander must take full accountability for his actions. Stand up and be counted.
[01:30:01] As a commander, you are accountable for everything that your outfit does or fails to do.
[01:30:08] Don't worry about who receives credit when things go well. Don't play the blame game.
[01:30:13] In my case, the mantle of command provided me with the courage to succeed.
[01:30:21] Yeah. Extreme ownership. That's what he's talking about. Personal accountability. That's what he's
[01:30:27] talking about being in great physical condition. That's what he's talking about. That's discipline.
[01:30:35] I guess as we read this, and I didn't read this book until a week ago.
[01:30:43] Yeah, on a week ago, I read this book. It's not like I read this book and said, hey,
[01:30:49] personal accountability is the most important thing about being a leader. No.
[01:30:52] This is guy came to the same conclusion in World War II that I came to and conclusion in my experience in the military.
[01:31:04] Now he starts talking a little bit about combat fatigue. How much combat fatigue there was.
[01:31:09] In Normandy, I witnessed lots of stress. Some in Holland, much more in best known due to the
[01:31:14] intense cold, lack of sleep and inadequate clothing. In Belgium, combat fatigue reached astronomical
[01:31:21] proportions. We'd spent 70 days in the frontlines in Holland and didn't have time to recover before
[01:31:27] we boarded the trucks to take us to Bastone. On reflection, I realized what was happened by the time
[01:31:35] the command arrived in Epastone. The men had been on the frontlines since Normandy. Men were
[01:31:41] exhausted, no hot food, little sleep, no rest, constant tension, and intense pressure from combat.
[01:31:49] They were physically exhausted, inclement weather and constant rain and snow made matters even worse.
[01:31:57] Physical exhaustion leads to mental exhaustion which in turn causes men to lose discipline.
[01:32:04] The loss of self-discipline produces combat fatigue.
[01:32:12] Over and over again. Over and over again, we hear that. How important is discipline? It is the most important
[01:32:18] thing. If discipline is what gets people through these situations,
[01:32:26] through combat stress, through tension, through bombs, through artillery, through freezing cold,
[01:32:30] lack of food, lack of sleep, imagine what discipline can do in a normal person's life.
[01:32:40] Back to the book, how can you possibly compare a man who's been under just one concentrated
[01:32:44] artillery bombardment for five minutes to a place like Bastone where he could be in the line
[01:32:49] for weeks or months? In one of Ambrose's books, he states that prolonged artillery bombardment
[01:32:56] will break any soldier. In civilian life, of course, we refer to combat fatigue as a mental breakdown.
[01:33:05] That is exactly the way it is in combat. It's a mental breakdown.
[01:33:09] The intensity, it becomes a problem for me to express my feelings here,
[01:33:13] but I'd like to share it with you. The intensity of a fire or a heavy concentration to be a leader,
[01:33:19] you have to be able to concentrate on that fire and move just as soon as it stops or the last
[01:33:24] rounds hit. Move. Get up. Start circulating among your men. Is everybody okay? Let's get up.
[01:33:30] Let's move. Keep your eye open for an attack. Get their attention. Move among your men as quickly as
[01:33:36] possible. And moving among them. The fact that they see you and they're talking to you,
[01:33:43] they know that you are there and you are talking to them and it makes all the difference in the
[01:33:47] world to know that you are not in this thing by yourself. That's what officers must do. Break the
[01:33:55] cycle of fear. If a soldier is concentrating on his own feelings and on his own fear and he sees
[01:34:02] you moving around, he realizes that you're sharing the burden with him. That's why he can then move.
[01:34:09] So that's very important. And that's, you know, again, that can apply to combat that can
[01:34:15] abide business. People are going to start panicking. What are they going to do in this
[01:34:18] start panicking? You and the leader as the leader need to step up, get out there, talk to people.
[01:34:22] Find out what's going on. Tell them that we're going to move. Show them that you're not afraid
[01:34:27] and that you are afraid, but you're still functioning. Lead by example. Plain and simple.
[01:34:32] Back to the book. Courage will be spent if you relax your standards. In undisciplined soldier
[01:34:42] feels all isolated and alone. Maintain the standards. Don't compromise your integrity. Never get
[01:34:50] up. Give up. Don't ever give up. I love this right here. There is always one more thing that a
[01:34:57] leader can do to improve his situation and that of his command. I always felt that a leader's physical
[01:35:06] presence was indispensable to unicohesion and morale. This is why I've capped in so bell
[01:35:12] failed so miserably. Leadership by example, always Trump's leadership by fear. There's always
[01:35:22] one more thing that a leader can do to improve his situation and that of his command is always
[01:35:27] one more thing you can do. And an undisciplined soldier feels isolated and alone. They know
[01:35:35] they've given up that self respect how you're going to give it back to them. When your men
[01:35:42] are dying and you do not, you feel ashamed. I don't know any other way of saying it. Soldiers
[01:35:51] in war certainly in World War II and I suspect in every war are generally young men in their prime.
[01:36:01] They meet death daily and in every form. They fully realize the hazards of their
[01:36:08] profession. They take chances because no young man expects to die before middle age.
[01:36:13] When the first soldier dies, that belief in immortality is shattered. As casualties mount and the
[01:36:24] core of the unit grows fewer, the remaining soldiers grow even stronger, often shutting off
[01:36:30] replacement soldiers. They don't want to know the replacements because they are often the
[01:36:36] first to die. When I saw one of my men wounded, I was happy that he had a ticket home.
[01:36:48] A soldier killed and battle was at peace. He had lived his life among men whom he had loved.
[01:36:58] I took a degree of consolation and knowing that my men had lived rather than regretting
[01:37:03] that they had died. A soldier's real fear is not losing his life and combat,
[01:37:11] but placing his comrades in jeopardy. That's why ordinary men will perform in extraordinary ways
[01:37:19] to ensure that their buddies survive.
[01:37:22] This is another level of war. When you're actually, and I never was at this point,
[01:37:36] by any stretch, we're looking at men that get wounded and saying, oh, lucky him. He's got to take
[01:37:42] it home. We just weren't under that knee, that casualty level at all. When guys were getting wounded,
[01:37:54] it was hard. It wasn't a good feeling. I was lucky him. He's got to take it home.
[01:37:59] There wasn't enough guys getting wounded to make you think that way. Not enough guys getting
[01:38:03] killed to make you think that way. Small percentage. That's the reaching a whole new level. Back to
[01:38:13] the book. If you have selected the right personnel, then a leader must instill discipline.
[01:38:18] I mean perfect discipline. As Pat and one said, discipline is the soul of the army.
[01:38:24] General Washington said the same thing when he described the continental army in 1776.
[01:38:29] Discipline is manifested in how well a soldier keeps his uniform, how frequently cleans his weapon,
[01:38:36] and the pride he has in his unit. Joe Hogan of easy company speaks for all of us on the subject
[01:38:47] of pride in company E. During an argument with a soldier from another company about whose company
[01:38:53] was better, Joe said, my company E will lick your company in 15 minutes. If you wait until the
[01:39:00] guys who are A-wall come back, we'll do it in five minutes. This is important. Unit pride
[01:39:08] leads to unit discipline. Again, now we're going back to the feelings that I had when I was a
[01:39:16] young kid in the SEAL teams. I told him pride in my platoon. This is funny because you said,
[01:39:21] like look, the guys that are gone right now, they're A-wall, they're absent without leave. If they
[01:39:26] give you A for them to come back, we'll be getting this done in five minutes. But you know, I feel like
[01:39:31] this unit pride and unit discipline how they go together. It's like a gang. I don't know why I think
[01:39:37] of this way, and I talked about this semester. It's like a gang mentality when you start policing
[01:39:41] yourself up. When I was in a SEAL platoon, it wasn't our bosses that were trying to keep us in line.
[01:39:50] We kept ourselves in line. You didn't want to get out of the side. You didn't want to do something
[01:39:54] wrong because you're going to get placed up by the boys. The E5 mafia is what we were.
[01:40:01] So the E5 mafia, that's a real thing, by the way. The E5 mafia, you know, SEAL platoon,
[01:40:05] you've got the senior guys who's like the platoon, the platoon chief, the leading patty officer.
[01:40:12] Those are like E67 and you've got the assistant platoon commander. Those are like they call
[01:40:17] the top four. Those are the guys that kind of run their actual leadership. And then you got the
[01:40:21] nugs and then in the middle of the pack right there, you've got the E5s. They're the guys that are
[01:40:26] actually running things and making things happen and the E5 mafia is what we call them. And then
[01:40:30] in a SEAL team, there's an E5 mafia that all works together to make things happen. But with the E5
[01:40:36] mafia, if you've got a good unit, that E5 mafia, they're policing up everything. And you don't need
[01:40:41] it as a leader, you just need to make sure that they don't take it too far. It's the only thing you need
[01:40:46] to make sure. But they're going to make sure guys are doing the right thing. They're going to make
[01:40:50] sure that they're performing well. They're going to make sure that they're in a good shape. They're
[01:40:52] going to make sure all those things. And this was an interesting quote. What you tolerate,
[01:41:03] you condone. So again, extreme ownership written by myself and lay Fab and will lay Fab and
[01:41:11] wrote a line in there and says, it's not what you preach. It's what you tolerate. And he hadn't read
[01:41:16] this book and here it is. What you tolerate, you condone to saying the exact same thing. If you let
[01:41:22] standards start to slide, that's what you're done. That's the new standard. Of course,
[01:41:31] there's a little bit more to leadership than what we've talked about so far. Back to the book
[01:41:37] leading in battle is the art of dealing with human nature and the human condition.
[01:41:45] I can't speak of higher command. But I know a few things about leadership at the small unit level.
[01:41:51] Leadership at all levels, wins, wars, but soldiers at the platoon, company and batalion levels,
[01:41:57] win battles. I think this particularly true in the national army where soldiers need to understand
[01:42:03] the reasons behind the officers orders. We have to know why we're doing what we're doing. What I
[01:42:10] have succeeded had I been promoted beyond battalion? I don't know. I do know that I felt comfortable
[01:42:17] at the small unit level. This is one reason why easy company holds such a tender place in my heart.
[01:42:23] I knew the strengths and weaknesses of every paratrooper. I could rapidly ascertain what I wanted
[01:42:29] to do and felt confident that I could convince the men to do it. After commanding easy company
[01:42:35] and Normandy and Holland, I know that the men felt comfortable entrusting their lives to my care.
[01:42:42] I'm not bragging because it's not my nature to do so. I'm stating fact.
[01:42:47] Knowing that I would never ask them to do anything that I wouldn't do myself,
[01:42:51] led to easy company's confidence in me as a leader. They knew that I would never quit and
[01:42:59] that I would do everything within my power to bring them home after the war.
[01:43:06] I'm proud when I hear a paratrooper from easy company or second batalion remark about my courage
[01:43:11] under fire by willingness to share their hardships. I told you once that wars do not make great men.
[01:43:17] But war sometimes bring out the greatness in good men.
[01:43:29] Human nature. That's what it is. That's sort of how I describe this podcast now.
[01:43:37] An exploration of human nature. If you want to see human nature reveal itself and it's most
[01:43:42] clear as to form you have to go to war. Don't look at that. Or other very
[01:43:48] strenuous situations. Harsh situations.
[01:43:57] Upon returning from the war, here's what major winters had to say back to the book. The war changed
[01:44:02] me. I returned to the state's bitter. A different man than the young man who had
[01:44:09] listed in the army in 1941. I was hardened when I returned. First impressions were more important
[01:44:18] than they had previously been. I looked at things differently. When you return from a war time
[01:44:25] environment, you have to adjust to society. The life that you are going to be sharing with others
[01:44:31] just to make a living. Though I was comfortable in a combat environment, I wondered if I would
[01:44:36] feel at home among civilized people who wouldn't be able to understand how a soldier thinks and feels.
[01:44:43] I came to understand that I would have to make changes to be accepted into life at home.
[01:44:51] This takes time and it's never easy. While on the front lines in prolonged combat,
[01:44:58] I often wondered about my friends back in the states old friends I had grown up with. Some of
[01:45:03] whom had avoided coming over, either by becoming conscience and subjectors or working in war related
[01:45:10] factories that the federal government had declared essential. I understand everyone doesn't have to
[01:45:17] share my belief that military services is the only form of service in wartime, but I took a
[01:45:22] men's pride in my contribution to the war effort. We who fought the war were part of something noble.
[01:45:30] Military services and honor, a privilege. Funny thing is that when I finally returned home,
[01:45:39] I had no desire to pick up with those friends who managed to skip the whole thing.
[01:45:45] I completely shut them out. I wouldn't come downstairs when they knocked on the door.
[01:45:52] Even today, when I look at a man or woman, I can't help but judge them.
[01:45:56] Does he have leadership capabilities? Which he'd be good in combat? Does he or she have
[01:46:06] what it takes? I think clearly when you come home, those are things I think everybody goes through.
[01:46:20] Of your looking at people, you're kind of judging people. It certainly will leave a mark. I'll tell you,
[01:46:28] I don't think there's enough veterans now. You're not going to be able to just hang around with veterans.
[01:46:32] It's not going to happen. You've got to understand and accept the fact that not everyone
[01:46:36] served the way you served. That's just the way it is. I try to make sure that I would
[01:46:46] leave hold people to a higher expectation. Any other thing is, I think you have to walk a fine
[01:46:54] line and you've got to make sure you're not looking down on people because they didn't choose
[01:46:59] the path that you chose. Now World War II is different because at least appears to be different
[01:47:07] because it was so easy. So many people went on the path of December 7th happened. I'm going to
[01:47:12] sign up tomorrow today, whatever. And I think that the way these wars that we've been fighting have
[01:47:20] gone down has been the same. It's been different. And I think we veterans right now have to use
[01:47:25] some caution before just shutting out everyone else that didn't serve the way we did.
[01:47:33] We'd be shutting out basically. You probably be shutting out most of the people in your lives.
[01:47:37] Most of my friends outside the sealed teams, they're you know, do you get to? Got a bunch of friends
[01:47:42] from do you get to none of them served? I can't just shut them all out. So I think we have to be careful
[01:47:49] about that as as veterans to make sure we you're going to have those feelings understood,
[01:47:59] understand that there's more than that and you've got to accept other things going on in the
[01:48:05] world besides what we did. Another letter that Dick Winner's wrote to Deyetta Alman
[01:48:20] going back to the book when you're an officer you are responsible for the lives of soldiers in
[01:48:23] your command. You think about kids like this one parachute brand new well and you soon become old
[01:48:31] beyond your years. In the three years since I had entered the army I'd aged a great deal.
[01:48:39] It seems as if college days and days of civilian life when I did as I pleased or long past.
[01:48:46] I must have been a it must have been a dream a small and short but beautiful part of my life.
[01:48:53] Now all I do is work. Work to improve myself as an officer. Work to improve them as fighters as
[01:49:00] men make them work to improve themselves. The result is I am old before my time not physically old
[01:49:10] but hardened to the point where I can make the rest of them look like undeveloped high school
[01:49:14] boys old to the extent where I can keep going after my men fall over and sleep from exhaustion.
[01:49:24] I can keep going as a mother who works after her sick child and exhausted child
[01:49:29] has fallen asleep. Old to the extent where if it's a decision or advice needed my decisions are
[01:49:35] taken as if the wisdom behind them was infallible. Yes I feel old and tired from training these men
[01:49:43] to the point where they are efficient fighters. I hope it means that some will return to those
[01:49:49] girls back home. Again the reason I put that in there is because there's that's a that's
[01:50:01] pressure. That's the certain amount of pressure that a person that's been in the military has felt
[01:50:08] and it's real that pressure.
[01:50:13] And his wife said Dick fights the battle of the ball to virtually every night.
[01:50:25] He had recurring nightmares. So even Dick winners, you know, a very thoughtful and square
[01:50:33] away guy was still living those nightmares virtually every night. His wife said Dick also said back to
[01:50:47] the book. I know I did everything within my power to ensure as many soldiers made it home from the
[01:50:52] war as possible. But when you survive and your soldiers don't you feel guilty. It haunts me to this
[01:51:05] day that I lived and so many of my pair of troops died as the veterans of easy company pass on.
[01:51:14] I reminded of those who never returned from the war. I see their faces. I can almost hear them calling me.
[01:51:28] And again I think that everybody that served and survived when your friends and your brothers didn't
[01:51:47] you're always gonna have that. It's not gonna go away.
[01:51:57] And Dick winners, major Dick winners died January 2nd, 2011. Obviously they had a
[01:52:24] memorial service, a big memorial service for him back to the book. Those who remained alive,
[01:52:33] voiced their sympathy. He said former Patoon Sergeant William Grner, who had lost a leg
[01:52:40] outside Bastone. Dick always said, hang tough and follow me. When he said, let's go, he was
[01:52:49] right in the front. He was never in the back a leader personified. He was the best commander we ever had.
[01:52:58] We'd have followed him anywhere. Edward Beib Heffron, who served alongside winners at Bastone
[01:53:06] and who helped liberate Hitler's Eagles nest, added he was one hell of a guy, one of the greatest
[01:53:11] soldiers I ever was under. He was a wonderful officer, a wonderful leader. He had what you needed.
[01:53:18] Guuts and brains. He took care of his men. That's very important.
[01:53:26] Pop-I-Win added. It seemed as if he always made the right decision.
[01:53:32] He was a real soldier. He was one of the best. It started with him doing the right thing.
[01:53:39] I don't know how he survived the war, but he did. Another easy company veteran concurred,
[01:53:49] noting every one of us we'd follow him to hell. That's the type of guy he was.
[01:53:57] And also speaking, at that ceremony was a guy by the name of Eric Jenjensen,
[01:54:12] who was the screenwriter, one of the screenwriters for band of brothers.
[01:54:15] And he was trying to get the screenplay in the series to be as accurate as possible.
[01:54:27] And so he spent a lot of time with Dick Winters and he got to know him very well.
[01:54:30] And I found what he said about Dick Winters to be very important. Here we go back to the book.
[01:54:36] Dick Winters made it his personal quest to excel.
[01:54:41] Whether it was executing the perfect push-up or training himself to run three miles up and down
[01:54:49] Kerriy Mountain, this pursuit was his private tool, his solution.
[01:54:56] And it was that solo effort, that obsessive clarity and pure, determined, self-contained purpose.
[01:55:03] That is men observed and that caused them to follow when he said simply follow me.
[01:55:12] Not just through that hedge row enormity and across that field and Holland under enemy fire,
[01:55:20] but follow my example, follow my commitment and we'll get through this
[01:55:27] then we will succeed.
[01:55:39] Dick Winters was laid to rest in his family plot in the evangelical Lutheran cemetery
[01:55:48] in the Frada, Pennsylvania, the Saturday following his death.
[01:55:52] And his grave stone reads simply, Richard D. Winters, World War II,
[01:56:06] 101st Airborne, 1918 to 2011.
[01:56:22] And Dick Winters before he died said, I am the man I am today because of easy company.
[01:56:36] Easy company made me as I reflect upon my life since the war. I can honestly say that it has been
[01:56:44] a lifetime search for men like those I knew in easy company.
[01:56:47] I haven't found too many. I don't think I know braver soldiers, the Joe Toy,
[01:56:56] Bill Gwantier, Floyd Talbert. I live with these guys every day. I mourn when they pass.
[01:57:06] Carwood Lipton died in December 2001. His death struck me particularly hard.
[01:57:12] So did bull ramblements. Lipton didn't live to see the acclaim easy company received when the
[01:57:21] miniseries was released. I tried not to think of the bad times anymore. I think mostly of the good times.
[01:57:30] The emotion will always be there.
[01:57:39] And Dick Winters said that war brings out greatness and men. And he also realized
[01:58:08] that war makes you appreciate your country.
[01:58:19] The major winners before he died said, well, it probably sounds strange to you.
[01:58:25] But when I brought easy company to Utah Beach so we could board the LST to return to England
[01:58:31] on July 11, 1944. I saw that beach for the first time with that vast amount of ships as far as
[01:58:38] the eye could see in every direction. Seeing the American flag fluttering over that beach,
[01:58:46] I felt weak in the knees and tears filled my eyes. Suddenly, that flag meant something different
[01:58:55] than it ever had before. I've never looked at our flag since without that memory in mind.
[01:59:05] Now I'm an old man, but that feeling is never left to me.
[01:59:11] And finally, then I always say that war is awful and war is a nightmare.
[01:59:42] But war does certainly make you appreciate life.
[01:59:57] And Dick Winters certainly appreciated the rest of his life.
[02:00:02] And he said this, I sit here in this house and I gaze out the window.
[02:00:18] I see flowers and the birds, I behold the wonder of nature.
[02:00:25] Everything seems so beautiful.
[02:00:33] And that wraps up that book. Everything seems so beautiful. And you know, over the past couple of weeks,
[02:01:03] I've been traveling a bunch and meeting a lot of different people, business people,
[02:01:12] workers, police and firefighters and active duty, military and veterans, just people.
[02:01:21] And we people, we get caught up in all kinds of chaos and mayhem.
[02:01:35] Mayhem from the past. We get caught up in that about what we should have done.
[02:01:42] Or what we should have left undone.
[02:01:44] And we feel this pressure about the future about what we should do or what we shouldn't do or where we're going and how we should get there.
[02:01:54] And I get that. I get that. I understand it. I feel it too.
[02:02:01] Life is hard. Life is hard. And if you aren't careful, it will grind you down.
[02:02:19] And you know, I talk about detachment a lot from a leadership perspective and we talked about it today.
[02:02:26] And it's certainly important. But it's also a tool for your mind. And for your sanity, step back.
[02:02:41] Step back and look around.
[02:02:44] Not just to see what your next move is and where to head next and what to focus on, but step back to look around and see life.
[02:03:02] This life, your life, not surrounded by the pressure and the war and the failures and the violence and the nightmares and the mistakes and the grind.
[02:03:12] Not that life. But life as it is, as it is without our intervention.
[02:03:26] Ablescent. A journey, a short little bit of time on an incredibly fast moving sphere of amazement.
[02:03:49] Where if you can detach and step back and look for a moment, you'll see that like Dick Winner said.
[02:04:11] Everything seems so beautiful. And I think that's all I've got for tonight. So echo Charles. Yeah.
[02:04:30] Some lessons learned. Yeah. Very impactful for me and a big reminder for me we worked heavily with the first the 506 band of brothers in the Battle of Romani.
[02:04:52] We had the Delta Poutine Commander and a group of his guys spent the whole time over there and what incredible bunch of soldiers they were just incredible.
[02:05:04] The impact that they had on the battlefield, the leadership I saw at every level.
[02:05:10] Whenever I think of the band of brothers, my first thoughts when I think of the band of brothers is about Dick Winner's. It is about the series. It isn't about the books. My first thought of the band of brothers is the first the 506 battalion.
[02:05:24] That we were honored to work with in the Battle of Romani and one of my Poutoons worked intently with the entire time. And so for their service and sacrifice,
[02:05:40] I am eternally thankful for what they did and what they taught us and for us being alongside them was a real humbling, real humbling.
[02:05:52] You mentioned how, in all these books and all these lessons that discipline is so important and there was time you mentioned like imagine or imagine how important it is or how beneficial whatever it could be just in every day like remember that.
[02:06:16] That's crazy. The more books like this that we go over whatever that message becomes more and more clear.
[02:06:26] You know how like you get creative guys, but they don't have discipline or you get super disciplined guys, but they don't have creativity or you know.
[02:06:34] But everyone's in a while you'll find a person or you'll notice a person who does bring them together and you see the results like you see what kind of productivity or you just see the result in one way or
[02:06:47] Like these good like fighters or you know I don't know author like anyone doing absolutely so I'm and it's crazy how.
[02:06:55] Because you know if you're like naturally gifted or whatever at something you're in a way not like, like,
[02:07:04] I don't know what that's like.
[02:07:06] I mean it lets you notice someone and you see it in all these different fields as well or where oh someone that's got a lot of natural talent.
[02:07:13] Yeah, but they don't they don't have to because essentially through upbringing or whatever the just environment.
[02:07:18] They don't need it really you know they don't need it like just get away with it because they're just being their talent.
[02:07:23] Yeah, I mean I think we hear that a lot this idea that you know talent.
[02:07:28] It doesn't mean anything if you don't have the discipline to make things happen and a person that's highly disciplined will outperform.
[02:07:35] Someone that might be more talented all day or until.
[02:07:38] Yeah, I think it was all day long too strong.
[02:07:41] I was in the beginning.
[02:07:43] In the beginning I think it's actually yeah I feel like eventually.
[02:07:46] The discipline is the thing that's just going to carry you through.
[02:07:49] So and I thought I just thought that was super important where you were like imagine if this if you apply this to everyday life because everyday life essentially for us anyway.
[02:07:58] It's like a straight up luxury.
[02:08:00] Yeah, it is and here's what's important about what you're saying is is this fact that the reason that these guys.
[02:08:07] Had to have discipline was because if they didn't have discipline they would die.
[02:08:12] Yeah, if they didn't have discipline they would be overrun.
[02:08:14] If they didn't have discipline they would they would starve.
[02:08:16] They would just die they would die.
[02:08:19] They would have to have discipline and your point is in this world and this life.
[02:08:24] In 2017 the living in the first world you don't have to have discipline at all and you'll still survive and you might even do okay.
[02:08:33] Yeah, sure.
[02:08:34] I mean just imagine.
[02:08:35] Yeah.
[02:08:36] Just imagine if you apply the discipline to your life where you'll end up.
[02:08:41] Yeah.
[02:08:42] And how much better off you'll be.
[02:08:43] And how much more you can do with your life.
[02:08:46] The one life you have by the way.
[02:08:48] And how much of the way you can do with that life if you just have the discipline and work hard and get after it.
[02:08:55] Yeah.
[02:08:56] And you see it in little pockets too.
[02:08:58] Remember when you're a kid.
[02:08:59] And you're like I'm going to save my money for this.
[02:09:03] I don't know comic book.
[02:09:05] I don't know.
[02:09:06] I'm going to save my money.
[02:09:07] You don't even have an income by the way, but somehow you save all your money like that little
[02:09:11] quarter that you find.
[02:09:13] That's a old you know you I'm going to save that.
[02:09:15] I'm going to save that because you have this kind of end in a way like the discipline kind of forms itself around that goal.
[02:09:21] So you know what it is like you know what that means you know.
[02:09:25] So it's real like that's a real thing.
[02:09:27] You shouldn't you shouldn't regard it as some ambiguous thing that.
[02:09:30] Yeah, no it's not.
[02:09:32] It's not so.
[02:09:33] It's not so.
[02:09:34] It's not so.
[02:09:35] It's not so.
[02:09:37] It's not so.
[02:09:38] It's not so.
[02:09:41] The first podcast we did.
[02:09:43] I said something along the lines.
[02:09:44] I'm like you know what you need to do.
[02:09:46] Yeah.
[02:09:47] Like we all know what we should be doing.
[02:09:48] I think that one of the first.
[02:09:49] There's not so many people that are lost that are going on.
[02:09:51] I'm just not sure how to do this.
[02:09:52] No, they know exactly what we know exactly what I should be doing.
[02:09:55] I'll tell you what it is.
[02:09:57] Distractions.
[02:09:58] Distractions are literally everything.
[02:09:59] There's industries of just distractions.
[02:10:01] That's the whole industry like TV.
[02:10:04] TV industry of distract.
[02:10:05] Huge and the in the defense of TV TV can be a.
[02:10:10] Yeah, you can.
[02:10:11] You because there's educational stuff on TV.
[02:10:13] Um, decided.
[02:10:15] I'm just saying like see your point.
[02:10:17] The entertainment industry and I'm not saying.
[02:10:20] These industries of distractions are bad things.
[02:10:22] I'm not saying that.
[02:10:23] I'm just saying distractions are what get in the way of.
[02:10:26] I don't know for lack of a better term like your your goal.
[02:10:29] Yeah, and.
[02:10:30] Well, we're talking about.
[02:10:32] The very fact of some of your discipline can be used to create things that are actually distracting.
[02:10:37] I mean, if you if your goal is to create some artistic piece, whether it's a movie,
[02:10:41] whether it's music, whether it's whatever.
[02:10:44] Yeah.
[02:10:45] That that's a distracting thing, but that's not that doesn't mean that it's negative.
[02:10:48] They want to make that happen.
[02:10:49] Yes.
[02:10:50] There's people that'll find something.
[02:10:51] I mean, the reason you want to create something is.
[02:10:54] I guess you create it for yourself.
[02:10:56] But then the reward is when other people say that.
[02:10:59] Yes, I get something out of here.
[02:11:02] Yeah.
[02:11:03] Recognize for me, Pierce.
[02:11:05] Yeah.
[02:11:05] For sure.
[02:11:06] Yeah.
[02:11:07] And when I say distractions, I.
[02:11:08] In regards to goal, it's a relative thing, meaning like you're distracted from your path of the goal.
[02:11:13] I agree with you.
[02:11:14] Yeah, but there's also just just mentally just just weakness.
[02:11:17] Just the easy path I should say.
[02:11:19] Right.
[02:11:20] The discipline plan is hard.
[02:11:21] The easy path that anyone wants to jump on when you're alarm clock goes off.
[02:11:24] I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll right.
[02:11:25] I've talked about these things a million times.
[02:11:26] That's what the problem is.
[02:11:27] The problem isn't even distraction.
[02:11:29] The problem is just the lack of will to do what you need to do.
[02:11:31] Right.
[02:11:32] The distraction can add to that.
[02:11:33] That's a part of it.
[02:11:34] What we do is we take.
[02:11:36] We take our.
[02:11:37] The path of least is resistance and then we throw distraction on top of that.
[02:11:41] For instance, when you open up your computer because you got a right of book.
[02:11:45] And instead of opening the word process, you come on.
[02:11:47] I'm just going to check the interwebs real quick distracted.
[02:11:50] Yeah, you're distracted.
[02:11:51] There goes 45 minutes.
[02:11:52] You have a.
[02:11:53] You have a.
[02:11:54] The internet is the internet is a mind time warp.
[02:11:57] Oh, yeah.
[02:11:58] Time disappears in the internet.
[02:11:59] There's a lot of distractions on there.
[02:12:00] Yeah.
[02:12:01] For sure.
[02:12:02] And really.
[02:12:02] What I mean by distraction is you have this long term goal right your goal is your pay off your long term pay off.
[02:12:07] So so the distractions really are these little short term pay off that drag you that this track.
[02:12:12] You.
[02:12:13] So that's what that's what the distraction is.
[02:12:15] So you broke that out for me.
[02:12:17] Right right.
[02:12:18] But.
[02:12:18] Right.
[02:12:19] Get off the track exactly right.
[02:12:21] So the weakness will let those distractions kind of take place.
[02:12:23] Yeah.
[02:12:24] And then the distractions kind of take hold for sure.
[02:12:26] But.
[02:12:27] So yeah, they work hand in hand for sure.
[02:12:29] So so if you can because again, that saving money for comic books thing.
[02:12:33] So consider that as the goal.
[02:12:35] So the distractions are going to be the candy that you want to buy or the, you know, you play dice with your friend.
[02:12:40] Whatever the distractions is in regards to that specific pack.
[02:12:43] I like echoes world right now.
[02:12:45] Like playing dice with your friend saving for comic books.
[02:12:48] Like 1950.
[02:12:49] So I like it.
[02:12:50] You know, back.
[02:12:51] But either way, like the distractions there they're relevant.
[02:12:55] So when I say, okay, the distractions are there when I say there's industries of distractions.
[02:13:00] Again, I'm not saying this is bad things.
[02:13:02] They are bad things if they're distracting you from your goal.
[02:13:05] So you can have the truth because if you think about it, sometimes you just need to let your mind take a rest.
[02:13:10] Yeah, you need one of them.
[02:13:11] Oh, I got I got to get to just put the game.
[02:13:13] I just flew home from like I've been on the road or all over the world.
[02:13:18] Did the master, did a bunch of speeches, did some consulting.
[02:13:22] It was all over the place on the plane the whole time.
[02:13:25] And I flew home from the East Coast.
[02:13:29] When was that set a couple days ago.
[02:13:32] And when I flew, I haven't done this in forever.
[02:13:34] I flew home.
[02:13:35] I watched a movie.
[02:13:37] I just did a total distraction.
[02:13:39] Because I said, you know what, I can't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not in the game right now.
[02:13:43] Like I need my brain.
[02:13:45] It's the shit off.
[02:13:48] I do something which I don't like to do, which is you can either do two things.
[02:13:51] I look at it.
[02:13:52] You need a consume or you can produce right.
[02:13:55] I want to be producing.
[02:13:56] I want to be putting together.
[02:13:57] I want to be writing.
[02:13:58] I want to be thinking.
[02:13:59] I want to be reading for the podcast.
[02:14:01] Prepping.
[02:14:02] That's what I want to be doing.
[02:14:03] I want to be producing something.
[02:14:04] Consuming is I'm just absorbing what someone else made.
[02:14:07] Right.
[02:14:08] I'm just going to absorb this absorb this absorb this a lot of times it is garbage.
[02:14:11] So, but I flew home had a long flight and I was like, you know what?
[02:14:14] I need to check out, I need to check out right now and just do nothing.
[02:14:17] So I watched two movies.
[02:14:18] Did it get?
[02:14:19] Two movies.
[02:14:20] We got to watch it.
[02:14:21] We got to watch it.
[02:14:22] The two movies I watched.
[02:14:24] The first one was.
[02:14:27] Not heartbreak rich.
[02:14:31] It's the new movie that just came out about Dawson that Mel Gibson directed.
[02:14:39] What's it called?
[02:14:40] I don't know.
[02:14:41] This is a big successful movie.
[02:14:43] Conscious as a projector.
[02:14:45] World War II.
[02:14:46] He wins the Medal of Honor.
[02:14:48] Or he's awarded the Medal of Honor.
[02:14:50] So, that was a good movie.
[02:14:51] You know, it's a World War II movie.
[02:14:53] I liked it.
[02:14:54] It's not in my opinion five star, but it was good.
[02:14:57] It was entertaining.
[02:14:58] Sure.
[02:14:59] It told the story.
[02:15:00] And then after that, I watched.
[02:15:04] Zulander.
[02:15:06] That was when I was going to full-dead press.
[02:15:09] That was good.
[02:15:10] I mean, right.
[02:15:11] I watched Zulander.
[02:15:12] Because it's a hilarious movie.
[02:15:14] I have a buddy in the teams that we nicknamed Moogato.
[02:15:17] Sure.
[02:15:18] Yeah.
[02:15:19] Because, you know, he would go crazy.
[02:15:20] So we had to call him Moogato.
[02:15:22] Yeah.
[02:15:23] And yeah, that was just a funny movie.
[02:15:25] I just decompressed.
[02:15:26] Yeah.
[02:15:27] And I don't do that very often.
[02:15:28] You know.
[02:15:29] The grind is always happelin.
[02:15:30] But I just had to take a little detachment.
[02:15:32] What was the name of that movie?
[02:15:33] With...
[02:15:34] There's not famous actors.
[02:15:37] I guess there's one.
[02:15:38] Who's the really funny guy?
[02:15:40] Anyways.
[02:15:41] Is it a good movie?
[02:15:42] Yeah.
[02:15:43] So techno what the so the question is, is that really a distraction?
[02:15:47] So, you know, like a football game or a movie or something that you're not doing to put you,
[02:15:54] you know, more forward on your path or whatever.
[02:15:56] But if you're taking a break, is that a distraction?
[02:16:00] Like if I'm lifting, and I do a workout, and then I go recover from that workout.
[02:16:03] Yeah.
[02:16:04] The rest of it is that a distraction.
[02:16:05] No.
[02:16:06] It's a distraction.
[02:16:07] I should have grinded it though.
[02:16:08] Yeah.
[02:16:09] No.
[02:16:10] I was done.
[02:16:11] So it tapped out.
[02:16:12] So a distraction is more of an idea and more of the concept, you know.
[02:16:15] So like you're definitely an executive director.
[02:16:16] Just like how you said when you open your computer, and the whole internet is there to distract you.
[02:16:20] Oh.
[02:16:21] What do we have now there?
[02:16:22] Yeah.
[02:16:23] That's a distraction.
[02:16:24] You know, where you can, like even if I have a book, if my goal is to finish some video,
[02:16:29] but meanwhile, I have this book that's really informative and something.
[02:16:32] And I'm like, you know, that book seems real.
[02:16:35] I'm real in the mood to read that book.
[02:16:36] That's a distraction, even though it's a good thing.
[02:16:38] You know, so the distraction is like the idea.
[02:16:41] So, you know, what are the common goals?
[02:16:43] I want to get in shape.
[02:16:44] I want to, you know, be a better husband or wife or I want to do better at work.
[02:16:49] I want to learn more.
[02:16:50] I want to read all the stuff.
[02:16:51] Get better at your attention.
[02:16:52] Get better at your attention.
[02:16:53] All the stuff you can get distracted by these other things.
[02:16:56] You know, before I, I don't know, read.
[02:16:58] I'm going to surf Instagram or something like that.
[02:17:01] That's a distraction.
[02:17:02] You know.
[02:17:03] And now, which is my original point is.
[02:17:07] The reason or one of the reasons that we don't apply this extreme discipline as it's outlined in these books here is because we have literally infinite amount of distraction.
[02:17:20] Well, there's also no consequence or I shouldn't say that.
[02:17:23] The consequence isn't visible.
[02:17:25] Yeah.
[02:17:25] The consequence you don't say, you don't say, hey, if I would have had this one, I would reach this ultimate potential.
[02:17:32] You just, okay, with not reaching that ultimate potential.
[02:17:34] Yeah.
[02:17:38] You're just like turning, putting microwaveable popcorn in and watching him move.
[02:17:40] You've been doing it the whole time.
[02:17:41] I'm still here.
[02:17:42] You know, I'm here.
[02:17:43] I know.
[02:17:44] And you know what?
[02:17:45] That was a good movie.
[02:17:46] And the popcorn tastes good.
[02:17:47] That's the wrong answer.
[02:17:48] Yeah.
[02:17:49] You don't recognize what your potential is.
[02:17:51] And so you're just okay with this kind of half potential.
[02:17:54] You don't reach your potential.
[02:17:55] And since you don't know it.
[02:17:58] And the other thing it's hard to see, it's hard to see how that long term effects you.
[02:18:01] Yeah, I got just one bag of popcorn is just one movie.
[02:18:04] Yeah.
[02:18:05] But you did that three times this week.
[02:18:06] Yeah.
[02:18:07] You know, that's, that's not getting you two times.
[02:18:09] You know, in the past 10 years.
[02:18:10] Yeah.
[02:18:11] You could write 30,000 words.
[02:18:12] No, more than that.
[02:18:13] Yeah.
[02:18:14] You're right about 1,000 words an hour.
[02:18:15] Good way to look at it.
[02:18:17] And I think I might have said this for where.
[02:18:20] It's not like a moment to moment looking to the future kind of thing.
[02:18:24] You should look at it.
[02:18:26] But in the way of, in the sense of looking at it in the past.
[02:18:30] So let's say you consider the last one year or two years.
[02:18:34] Right.
[02:18:35] And let's say I wanted to play better guitar.
[02:18:37] Something.
[02:18:38] Good goal.
[02:18:39] Yeah.
[02:18:40] I have that goal.
[02:18:41] I always fail at it.
[02:18:42] There you go.
[02:18:43] So you look at it in this way where you don't say, okay.
[02:18:45] If I spend an hour a day, you know, practicing guitar in, you know, in a year, all be better.
[02:18:51] You don't necessarily look like that.
[02:18:52] You can.
[02:18:53] But a good way to look at it or help with it is if you look at it last year.
[02:18:59] If I, if I would have played an hour a day right now, I would right now.
[02:19:03] That is I'm sitting here with you right now.
[02:19:05] I'd be dope at guitar, you know, kind of like that.
[02:19:08] So you kind of get the wall in my experience.
[02:19:10] I've kind of got this feeling of like wasted time.
[02:19:13] You know, you know that feeling where it's like dang.
[02:19:15] I got to play catch up.
[02:19:16] No, that's a little bit more compelling.
[02:19:18] I think sometimes it can be.
[02:19:19] Yeah.
[02:19:20] So if you think about it that way too, I think that helps.
[02:19:23] Maybe maybe not speaking of help.
[02:19:26] Speaking of help.
[02:19:27] And potential.
[02:19:28] Oh, both nicely done double gravitational.
[02:19:33] You need help.
[02:19:36] By way of supplementation.
[02:19:38] If you're working out.
[02:19:39] So I mean, how you said.
[02:19:41] You can't not work out.
[02:19:43] I think especially nowadays, like you could because your life.
[02:19:46] To.
[02:19:47] Probability wise is is is is cruising.
[02:19:50] You're cruising physically.
[02:19:52] Where, you know, you go to office because really.
[02:19:55] Yeah, life is physically easy.
[02:19:58] Right.
[02:19:59] You're an emotional and kids easier and easier.
[02:20:00] Even if it's not easy right now.
[02:20:02] Next year generally speaking, it's going to be easier.
[02:20:05] You know, like even like slow and brushed in my teeth, like I do every week or whatever.
[02:20:11] And once a week, whether you're not.
[02:20:13] Yeah.
[02:20:14] And so I have the regular toothbrush, you know, I'm sure this all kinds of little
[02:20:19] micro technologies in the toothbrush.
[02:20:21] But I started to think man, this there have, you know, this is a old school thing.
[02:20:24] There's automatic toothbrushes.
[02:20:26] Actually, my brother told me about this too, this automatic, you know, electric toothbrush
[02:20:30] I was like super dope and highly recommended it.
[02:20:32] It was like $89 all this stuff.
[02:20:34] And I'm thinking dang something as basic as brushing your teeth is way easier now.
[02:20:39] Way easier.
[02:20:40] You got a machine to do it.
[02:20:41] That's that's really the whole narrative with everything.
[02:20:45] Point being.
[02:20:47] Physically.
[02:20:48] You're in first yourself because you're not going to have to push it.
[02:20:51] You got to read it.
[02:20:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, your environment is starting to work more and more against you.
[02:20:56] In regards to physical activity.
[02:20:58] So my point being.
[02:21:00] You got to work out.
[02:21:02] Yeah, how's it going to say?
[02:21:03] That's a real straightforward thing.
[02:21:05] Work out.
[02:21:06] Yeah, but I feel like it's, I mean, it's easy for you, you know, to be like,
[02:21:10] Yeah, it's you.
[02:21:11] It's obvious, you know, they call that the curse a knowledge, you know,
[02:21:14] home when you're, you're like so advanced in this one thing that you forget how it is
[02:21:18] to not be advanced.
[02:21:19] Yeah, that's true.
[02:21:20] I have forgotten what it's like to not be advanced in in terms of trying to explain to people why they
[02:21:25] well, I think it's pretty self-loving into anybody.
[02:21:27] Why you to work out.
[02:21:28] No, you're wrong.
[02:21:29] Yeah, okay.
[02:21:30] Think about this and I think about, and I thought about this one.
[02:21:32] Like, okay, you know, when you go into a jiu-jitsu gym,
[02:21:34] okay, you're different.
[02:21:35] So you may, you could very well, not even understand this.
[02:21:38] This might not compute with you.
[02:21:40] But if you walk into a jiu-jitsu gym and this applies to even a regular 24-hour
[02:21:43] fitness gym, if you've never been in there before, it never worked out.
[02:21:46] That's a really intimidating thing.
[02:21:48] You come in.
[02:21:50] If you're looking at me, I don't know how to use the machines.
[02:21:52] I don't know how to work out.
[02:21:53] Like everyone's looking at me.
[02:21:54] Judging me, I'm dumb.
[02:21:55] It is not my element.
[02:21:56] All this stuff that's intimidating, you know?
[02:22:00] Okay.
[02:22:01] But it's real.
[02:22:02] What I'm saying, you know how you say it, like you probably don't know about that because you
[02:22:05] don't have the curse of knowledge in regards to physical activity working out.
[02:22:08] You know, all that stuff.
[02:22:09] And then the pain that comes with it, I, man, I dig it.
[02:22:12] I understand.
[02:22:13] But that's even more of a reason to work out.
[02:22:16] Physical condition.
[02:22:19] Anyway, you've invited it if you don't work out.
[02:22:21] Just jump in there.
[02:22:22] Jump in.
[02:22:23] Go to the gym.
[02:22:24] Last year, if you were to start it working out, you know,
[02:22:27] how dope you be right now, way dopeer than you are if in the event you didn't start last
[02:22:33] last year, seems like.
[02:22:34] Anyway, while you work out, you've joined some might be kind of sore.
[02:22:38] I know this from experience.
[02:22:40] Take cruel oil.
[02:22:42] My father and Lothermy on to it.
[02:22:44] Actually, technically, didn't successfully turn me on to it.
[02:22:47] But he tried.
[02:22:48] He tried and, you know, I didn't see the light until
[02:22:52] Jockel turned me on to it.
[02:22:53] So now I'm turning everyone else on to it.
[02:22:55] Hopefully, successfully.
[02:22:57] Crill oil is.
[02:22:59] I'm not going to go into a whole deep thing here, but it's for your joint.
[02:23:02] So if you get joint pain, we'll just with degeneration over time.
[02:23:05] You get older.
[02:23:06] Dig it.
[02:23:07] Crill oil will bring you back.
[02:23:09] They'll function.
[02:23:10] It's kind of like your joint joint sort of like always warm now.
[02:23:13] Not like to the touch warm, but like warm like ready for action.
[02:23:16] You see what I'm saying.
[02:23:17] Anyway, Crill oil.
[02:23:19] I ain't even say it by who?
[02:23:20] If you don't know on it, that's the whole company and they have, they don't have just
[02:23:24] Crill oil.
[02:23:25] They have other stuff too.
[02:23:26] They also have a different deck.
[02:23:27] Yeah, performance stuff, which I remember.
[02:23:29] I recommend you to take by the way.
[02:23:31] Big time, especially if you're going for performance.
[02:23:34] Yeah, if you're going to go, train you Jitsu with Andy Taylor, Dean, Craig Baker.
[02:23:42] Yeah.
[02:23:43] Greg Train.
[02:23:44] Echo Charles.
[02:23:46] Just take the shrimp.
[02:23:47] And you know what?
[02:23:48] Support.
[02:23:49] Yeah, shrimp touch sport.
[02:23:50] Take three of them.
[02:23:51] Oh, is that the front?
[02:23:52] No, that's the recommended.
[02:23:53] I didn't know that.
[02:23:54] And then I read it.
[02:23:55] Yeah, I've like one day I just read the instructions for no reason.
[02:23:58] I was like, I wonder if I take 12 of these things if I'll be even more attack.
[02:24:02] But I did say three because I've been taken two.
[02:24:04] Oh, for real?
[02:24:05] Sorry, took three.
[02:24:06] It felt a little bit legit.
[02:24:08] Yeah, we stick three in.
[02:24:10] Never let down.
[02:24:11] And again, that's for the performance.
[02:24:12] So if I'm just cruising, if I'm just taking a walk around the block or two, I take
[02:24:17] the shrimp tech.
[02:24:18] I'm not going to feel it as much as if I jump in.
[02:24:20] Jiu Jitsu rounds.
[02:24:22] You know?
[02:24:23] Yeah, no, you think I take it when I have to perform a situation.
[02:24:28] Yeah, big time.
[02:24:29] Me too.
[02:24:30] You take shrimp tech immune.
[02:24:31] Not to be confused with.
[02:24:33] And I've taken shrimp tech immune when I go massive travel.
[02:24:36] Yeah.
[02:24:37] She getting all these planes.
[02:24:38] Oh, yeah.
[02:24:39] I think we're all in different sneezing.
[02:24:41] It's all nasty.
[02:24:42] I know what I do.
[02:24:43] Just go ahead and take some shrimp tech immune.
[02:24:45] It's something different because the yellowish.
[02:24:47] It's the labeled green too, though.
[02:24:50] The, whatever you're eating is more yellow.
[02:24:54] Yeah, I think the ingredients will just say the ingredients.
[02:24:57] I take vitamin C.
[02:24:58] Actually, when I'm a big travel, vitamin C, shrimp tech immune.
[02:25:02] Here's zinc is a good one too.
[02:25:04] That's what I hear.
[02:25:05] I've taken zinc before to try and overcome a cold,
[02:25:08] but it wasn't very, you know, convinced.
[02:25:11] Yeah.
[02:25:12] Yeah.
[02:25:12] I can power, I will power some vitamin C though.
[02:25:14] If I feel like some kind of a disease coming on,
[02:25:17] yeah.
[02:25:17] Power, the vitamin C.
[02:25:18] See, and that's kind of the good thing where you take this,
[02:25:20] um,
[02:25:21] shrimp tech immune.
[02:25:22] Yeah.
[02:25:23] Like, you know, you know that they were like,
[02:25:25] okay, does vitamin C help?
[02:25:26] Okay, check.
[02:25:27] It does zinc in, I don't know.
[02:25:29] I didn't read the ingredients like you did.
[02:25:31] And thought we were about to, whatever.
[02:25:33] But I read the effects.
[02:25:34] Yeah, okay, got you.
[02:25:35] Raise my immune system.
[02:25:36] I'm going to need that plane, a bunch of dirty people.
[02:25:39] Not all of you, but many of you.
[02:25:41] Many sneezing.
[02:25:42] It's sneezing on everyone, coughing on everyone.
[02:25:45] Yeah.
[02:25:46] And by the way, because I'm going to go talk to people,
[02:25:48] I can't be going.
[02:25:49] No, no.
[02:25:50] I'm not going.
[02:25:51] Or, yeah, I can't do that.
[02:25:52] I have to actually be able to talk.
[02:25:54] Yeah, coughing, seeing it.
[02:25:55] Yeah, coughing.
[02:25:56] Yeah, I can't be.
[02:25:57] It's awful if you, if you sneeze or cough when you're on a mic
[02:26:02] in front of a big group of people, not cool.
[02:26:04] Or if you keep doing it, yeah.
[02:26:06] Yeah, I kind of do it.
[02:26:07] Shroom tech.
[02:26:08] Shroom tech.
[02:26:09] Shroom tech.
[02:26:10] You know of a good stuff.
[02:26:11] And they okay.
[02:26:12] Yes, on it.com.
[02:26:13] You want 10% off all this stuff on it.
[02:26:15] Come slash, jockel.
[02:26:17] And here's the thing.
[02:26:18] We just talked about right now.
[02:26:19] We talked about krill oil.
[02:26:20] Shroom tech sports.
[02:26:21] Shroom tech immune.
[02:26:22] Alphabet.
[02:26:23] Yeah, Alphabet.
[02:26:24] Oh, we could go all night with this.
[02:26:26] Because of all the good stuff.
[02:26:28] I did.
[02:26:29] You watched me actually.
[02:26:30] Yeah, I did.
[02:26:31] I got Alphabet today.
[02:26:32] And I was thinking you took it, but then when you wanted
[02:26:34] not long story about something, and I was sort of wondering,
[02:26:37] maybe he didn't take his Alphabet today.
[02:26:38] Oh, then, then when I wrapped it up, you were like,
[02:26:40] Did you want that Alphabet?
[02:26:41] No, he was all out of Alphabet.
[02:26:43] I didn't sit.
[02:26:44] Alphabet.
[02:26:45] That statement made me think you are an Alphabet today.
[02:26:47] Just because you were able to complete your whole deal right there.
[02:26:49] I'm going to get it to Alphabet.
[02:26:51] Just an Echo story.
[02:26:52] And then when it comes to the closure, you go,
[02:26:54] back and again, some of that.
[02:26:56] Exactly.
[02:26:57] Right.
[02:26:58] See, hey, it could take lead.
[02:26:59] Take my lead example.
[02:27:01] You know, I don't see.
[02:27:02] So Alphabet, if you don't know, because we haven't talked about it as much as I feel like as far as it's role in our lives.
[02:27:09] My life, you know, I'm speaking from myself, where you take it neutral.
[02:27:13] It's called neutral pick.
[02:27:14] It's basically brain food, brain supplement, you know, like to make your brain.
[02:27:20] No, I'm going to get it.
[02:27:21] I'm going to get it to because I've been taking mostly on it,
[02:27:24] mostly Alphabet in the pack and the powder.
[02:27:27] Can taste good?
[02:27:28] Yeah.
[02:27:28] Yeah.
[02:27:29] The peach and the spice spice.
[02:27:30] I've been taking it in that more than I'm going to get.
[02:27:32] I actually ran out of the pills.
[02:27:35] Yeah.
[02:27:36] The capsules.
[02:27:37] Wait, so you let you prefer the capsules.
[02:27:39] You're seeing well, sometimes capsules a little bit more convenient.
[02:27:42] Right.
[02:27:42] Yeah.
[02:27:43] But I like it.
[02:27:44] If I'm doing an event or I'm going to go on a podcast.
[02:27:47] Yeah.
[02:27:48] And I didn't.
[02:27:49] I want to just build a band.
[02:27:50] Makes it smell for Brady in the in the brain.
[02:27:52] See, about your own is in a hurry.
[02:27:54] Doing a bunch of stuff.
[02:27:55] Brow him makes it up.
[02:27:56] A little fruit.
[02:27:57] Well, you know, like when you brew tea, it's like,
[02:27:59] I don't know.
[02:28:00] It's all like spring anyway.
[02:28:02] Either way, they're both the same deal.
[02:28:04] And they're called neutral picks.
[02:28:07] Proving by the way.
[02:28:08] I'm not just saying what if you're good for me?
[02:28:10] So you should take it.
[02:28:11] I'm not just saying that.
[02:28:12] Now, when you say that, you know,
[02:28:15] but to me, that means more to me than I don't know why.
[02:28:18] But like when you say, oh, it's been double triple blind.
[02:28:20] Plus evil, blah, blah, blah control.
[02:28:22] But I would rather have like someone that I know.
[02:28:24] Say, bro, I'm telling you take this stuff.
[02:28:26] Like I did with growing old to you.
[02:28:27] Yeah.
[02:28:28] Yeah.
[02:28:29] That was more important than reading a bunch of facts about it.
[02:28:31] Yeah.
[02:28:32] Yeah.
[02:28:33] And that takes someone that you know.
[02:28:34] And they're saying, look, man, give it a little crack.
[02:28:37] Yeah.
[02:28:38] Trust me on this one.
[02:28:39] And I think most people have that in one way or another, not with everything.
[02:28:41] But yeah, like if you recommend a movie or something like that,
[02:28:44] and then mean while looking at the reviews,
[02:28:46] the reviews are like super good.
[02:28:48] But then you're like, eh, it was junk because it's because of that.
[02:28:51] It's like it's an awesome experience.
[02:28:53] I've watched it move in so long.
[02:28:54] Yeah.
[02:28:55] Right to the classic 90s.
[02:28:57] It's at 90s comedy.
[02:28:58] What kind of mood is jacquilin when I go to 90s?
[02:29:00] Oh, is it like your friend?
[02:29:01] Yeah.
[02:29:02] That's just ridiculous.
[02:29:03] That's just ridiculous.
[02:29:05] But I like, oh, is it Owen Wilson in that movie?
[02:29:08] No, the other one.
[02:29:09] Oh, yeah.
[02:29:10] Sorry.
[02:29:11] Yeah.
[02:29:12] I'm thinking Bencil.
[02:29:13] I like that guy, Owen Wilson.
[02:29:14] Yeah.
[02:29:15] He's funny.
[02:29:16] I like him because he comes across as very truthful in the way he says.
[02:29:20] Yeah.
[02:29:21] Yeah.
[02:29:22] Yeah.
[02:29:23] Yeah.
[02:29:24] Yeah.
[02:29:25] Yeah.
[02:29:26] Yeah.
[02:29:27] Yeah.
[02:29:27] Yeah.
[02:29:28] He's kind of got this air about him.
[02:29:29] That's pretty air.
[02:29:30] Pretty air.
[02:29:31] Yeah.
[02:29:32] Yeah.
[02:29:33] It's interesting.
[02:29:34] Nonetheless, back to the Alphabrine.
[02:29:35] I think that when they prove it, I think certain people, certain types of like mindsets
[02:29:39] or whatever kind of more gravitate towards that.
[02:29:41] Like they're like, okay, that's cool that it worked for you, but that could have been
[02:29:44] placebo.
[02:29:45] That could have been this.
[02:29:46] That could have been your mood that day or whatever.
[02:29:47] If I'm going to commit to this, I want some, I want some hard facts.
[02:29:50] Some people will say, so boom, you got the hard facts as well as a legitimate
[02:29:55] recommendation because I was taking this even before, you know, the podcast and stuff.
[02:30:01] So I was into it nonetheless, Alphabrine.
[02:30:04] That's a good one.
[02:30:05] A bunch of other cool stuff.
[02:30:06] If you're into protein powder, good clean protein powder on there, all this all work out
[02:30:11] stuff too.
[02:30:12] By the way, I got a bunch of kettlebells.
[02:30:14] They're a primal bells, legend bell.
[02:30:16] The artistic one, they're dope.
[02:30:18] Look at my Instagram.
[02:30:19] Do some on there.
[02:30:21] Anyway.
[02:30:22] That is a good way to support yourself, help yourself, maintain the workouts, physical
[02:30:29] activity, all that stuff so you can be successful in that way.
[02:30:34] I don't think there's any excuse anymore.
[02:30:35] I don't have a real doubt.
[02:30:37] Also, good way to support.
[02:30:39] Really good way to support Amazon.
[02:30:41] Click through.
[02:30:42] When you go and get the book conversations with major dick winters, go to the website to
[02:30:52] list it there and click through there.
[02:30:55] Boom.
[02:30:56] So basically, it's to Amazon, click through your bite through Amazon.
[02:30:58] Amazon, click through.
[02:30:59] You'd be free to do your shopping, click through the website, Amazon.
[02:31:02] Boom.
[02:31:03] Support the podcast.
[02:31:05] Small action, big reaction.
[02:31:07] Because the click through only takes what?
[02:31:10] Three seconds.
[02:31:11] I think we've been determined.
[02:31:12] Maximum.
[02:31:13] Really?
[02:31:14] So, you know, Kim's some new way.
[02:31:15] So, we'll save three seconds.
[02:31:16] And then the reaction is massive support for this podcast.
[02:31:22] That's a good way.
[02:31:23] Amazon, click through the website, jocobadcast.com or I think it's on jocobadcast.com.
[02:31:29] Click through.
[02:31:30] Do your Amazon shopping.
[02:31:33] Also, subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.
[02:31:36] If you haven't already.
[02:31:38] Stitcher, Google Play, all these other podcasting, providing platforms.
[02:31:44] Also on YouTube.
[02:31:45] If you don't mind the video version of this podcast, go to YouTube watch it there.
[02:31:50] It's cool and adds that other layer of experience.
[02:31:54] Yeah, everyone seems to do that when there's a guest.
[02:31:56] Yeah.
[02:31:57] Because they don't know who that person is.
[02:31:58] They know what you look like.
[02:31:59] They know what I look like.
[02:32:00] Most people.
[02:32:01] Most people.
[02:32:02] Well, if they're listening to the podcast, eventually they know what you look like.
[02:32:05] They know what I look like.
[02:32:07] And so, there's no reason.
[02:32:09] Sometimes, although, sometimes you can see, like when certain subjects come up and
[02:32:13] there's maybe some intensity in the podcast more people watch it.
[02:32:17] But if it's a pretty mellow podcast and we're just talking about whatever we're talking
[02:32:21] about, maybe not everyone feels the need to go to the YouTube.
[02:32:25] But when the guest comes on, people want to see what that person looks like.
[02:32:27] And there's usually some more animated interactions.
[02:32:30] Yeah, it's true.
[02:32:31] Yeah, big time.
[02:32:32] Yeah, I'm answering if you're into that.
[02:32:34] You know what?
[02:32:35] It'd be cool if you made a little clip of when Tim Kennedy was on.
[02:32:40] And I read a question from the audience.
[02:32:42] Was something along the lines.
[02:32:43] And I said, you know, hey, you know, they
[02:32:47] took away Bayonette training for boot camp and Tim Kennedy just goes, god damn it.
[02:32:53] That's one of my favorite parts of any podcast ever.
[02:32:57] In that, I wouldn't really appreciate it if you'd make that clip.
[02:33:01] Even if it was like 12 seconds long, just the part.
[02:33:04] Yeah, just 12 seconds long.
[02:33:06] It would be worth having on there because everyone should know that that's a
[02:33:09] travesty that they stop doing Bayonette courses in Army boot camp.
[02:33:14] All right, you got it.
[02:33:15] Some people, if they don't hear this, because that part thing,
[02:33:17] he kind of confused, but hey, I think they'll appreciate it.
[02:33:19] I think so.
[02:33:20] Oh, they'll tell you it.
[02:33:21] Yeah, they'll dig it fully.
[02:33:23] But there's good animation.
[02:33:24] Yeah.
[02:33:25] He's getting crazy.
[02:33:27] Yeah, Matt.
[02:33:27] Which is fun.
[02:33:28] And really in general, just a YouTube that's an added, like I said, in that added visual
[02:33:32] layer.
[02:33:33] If you're down for it, sometimes people, you know, you put it on your T, let's say in your
[02:33:36] grud, you know, you're working out, where you're, you know, it's on the TV.
[02:33:39] It's kind of like you're in the conversation a little bit more.
[02:33:41] It feels like it.
[02:33:42] And also, if people subscribe to the YouTube channel,
[02:33:46] then when they can sign up where if you make an excerpt, right, then they can get that.
[02:33:52] Because it's cool.
[02:33:53] That's a good thing is as much easier as share an excerpt from the podcast than it
[02:33:56] is to share an audio.
[02:33:57] I don't even know how to share an audio piece of a podcast.
[02:34:00] I don't know how to do that.
[02:34:02] It probably can't be done.
[02:34:03] Probably.
[02:34:05] That's why we have the YouTube.
[02:34:07] So yeah, go ahead, subscribe to that one and speak of an e-mentioned the excerpts.
[02:34:11] Yeah, you put some excerpts.
[02:34:12] You can't, if you don't want to share or you anticipate that this person is not going
[02:34:16] to listen to two and a half hours of a podcast when you share it, you just get the little
[02:34:20] lesson that you want to share.
[02:34:22] But like, hey, how to approach college.
[02:34:24] You know, they're more than everyone.
[02:34:26] Yeah, that's a pop-in-o.
[02:34:27] Because everybody that went to college already wishes they had that when they went to college.
[02:34:31] Yeah, so when they, you know, when they encounter someone who's going to, you know, go
[02:34:34] to college, they're kids or nephew, neighbor, whatever.
[02:34:38] Boom.
[02:34:39] They have some advice directly from Jocco.
[02:34:41] Anyway, so yeah, you can share that.
[02:34:43] Subscribe to the YouTube.
[02:34:44] That's the point there.
[02:34:45] And if you want, and if you want to support, and you know, if you want, you can sign up for
[02:34:49] a little alert when I upload something on there.
[02:34:52] I know.
[02:34:53] Those alerts.
[02:34:54] You can get out.
[02:34:55] Pretty pretty stoked.
[02:34:56] Do I see something coming through?
[02:34:57] It's like a little present.
[02:34:59] You know, yeah, some YouTube good one.
[02:35:01] Also, Jocco is a store.
[02:35:02] It's called JoccoStore.
[02:35:05] JoccoStore.com.
[02:35:06] You know, if you want t-shirts and whatnot, discipline equals freedom.
[02:35:10] The one that simply says get after it on the front, that seemed to have gone over pretty
[02:35:17] well, I'd say.
[02:35:18] Well, and also it seems worth noting that we now offer the victory and the may.
[02:35:29] Sure.
[02:35:30] To the Jocco uniform.
[02:35:31] That's where.
[02:35:32] The time.
[02:35:33] I wear it when I record the podcast.
[02:35:34] I wear it all the time.
[02:35:35] We, you know, obviously, because we have our gym.
[02:35:38] Yeah.
[02:35:39] We have a lot of t-shirts.
[02:35:40] Our gym.
[02:35:41] Our gym stay on it.
[02:35:42] And so I wear that t-shirt a lot.
[02:35:44] Yeah.
[02:35:45] And I always have.
[02:35:46] Yeah.
[02:35:47] And then I didn't intentionally do it on the podcast in the beginning.
[02:35:50] I just happened to be wearing it two or three times.
[02:35:53] And then someone said, is that the only shirt, Jocco wears?
[02:35:56] Yeah.
[02:35:57] And at that point, I said, why yes it is.
[02:35:59] No, Brad, you're like the guy on the fly.
[02:36:01] Remember the movie The Fly?
[02:36:03] Yeah.
[02:36:04] And the lady's like, what was her?
[02:36:05] I forget anything.
[02:36:06] She's like, hey, is that your only set of clothes or something like that?
[02:36:09] Once she sees in, is closet that they're all this thing?
[02:36:11] Oh, yeah.
[02:36:12] That is me.
[02:36:13] Yeah.
[02:36:14] Yeah.
[02:36:15] Yeah.
[02:36:16] I like to have things in the same.
[02:36:16] But people would come and ask me, hey, where can I get the t-shirt?
[02:36:19] So now we've been on the Jocco store.
[02:36:22] Strangely, they didn't even have them at victory.
[02:36:24] No, no.
[02:36:25] People would come in and be like, yeah, we want to.
[02:36:26] Yeah.
[02:36:27] The original.
[02:36:28] This is an original.
[02:36:29] This is the original victory MMA t-shirt.
[02:36:32] And we had to re-produce it.
[02:36:34] Yeah.
[02:36:35] So it's a re-issue.
[02:36:36] Yeah.
[02:36:37] And all.
[02:36:38] But it's on respect, right?
[02:36:39] Yeah, it is.
[02:36:40] So I'm trying to think, like, is that, you know, it's not because it's the exact same design.
[02:36:45] Yeah.
[02:36:46] It's the exact same design.
[02:36:47] Literally the exact same design.
[02:36:48] Yeah.
[02:36:48] The same file, right?
[02:36:50] Yeah.
[02:36:51] Boom.
[02:36:52] So you get that one if you want it.
[02:36:53] Yeah.
[02:36:54] You can represent.
[02:36:55] represent.
[02:36:56] It's good.
[02:36:57] It's interesting because yours are like old school.
[02:36:59] So they kind of have like a fade to them.
[02:37:00] Yeah.
[02:37:01] You know, the new one.
[02:37:02] Yeah.
[02:37:03] The gleaming.
[02:37:04] I'm gleaming.
[02:37:05] I'm gleaming.
[02:37:06] I'm going to grab a couple of those too, by the way.
[02:37:07] All right.
[02:37:08] Well, just because I was running low when I would hate to have other things in my, yeah.
[02:37:12] What's that called when you have clothes?
[02:37:14] I wore a girl.
[02:37:15] Yeah.
[02:37:16] Yes.
[02:37:17] Good thinking, Joko.
[02:37:19] Anyway, JokoStore.com.
[02:37:21] Check those out.
[02:37:22] Some other new stuff stuff things items on there.
[02:37:25] Let me talk about this mug.
[02:37:27] I'm not going to take too much time because we've been, you know, we've been going
[02:37:30] to edit.
[02:37:31] So this, this travel mug right here.
[02:37:32] So you know how, you know, at home, you know, you have your cup.
[02:37:36] Yeah.
[02:37:37] You know what I'm talking about.
[02:37:38] I'm talking about the one that I do.
[02:37:39] You know what?
[02:37:40] I have actually my wife once she searched for ever to get me a cup that I like.
[02:37:46] Yeah.
[02:37:47] She found it.
[02:37:48] And then she went to Target and bought, you know, a dozen of them.
[02:37:51] There's big giant plastic, but feel like glass, whatever that is.
[02:37:54] I hope you'll really care something.
[02:37:55] Yeah.
[02:37:56] Can't break, but you can, but they feel good in your hand.
[02:37:59] So I have a bunch of those, but apparently it's getting replaced.
[02:38:01] Yes.
[02:38:02] So it's strangely, I had the same thing.
[02:38:04] Well, I was on the same search.
[02:38:05] So I had this one.
[02:38:06] What I arrived at my favorite cup was pink because they didn't have any other
[02:38:10] colors.
[02:38:11] It was pink, but it was big.
[02:38:13] It was like maybe like 24 ounce, like big cup.
[02:38:17] That's what it used for everything.
[02:38:18] It was pink, whatever.
[02:38:19] That meant nothing.
[02:38:20] You're comfortable with your hand, huh?
[02:38:21] Yeah, man.
[02:38:22] Compared to the functionality, the pink was nothing.
[02:38:25] But here's the thing.
[02:38:26] It could barely fit in my cup holder.
[02:38:28] You know, the kind of like you put it in, but it was like kind of stuck.
[02:38:31] You'd have to fine.
[02:38:32] But if that was the cup, that was the best one.
[02:38:34] You used any other cup, you just don't know.
[02:38:36] How you doing now?
[02:38:37] I'm going to get to that.
[02:38:39] So, but you know what I mean though.
[02:38:40] So you know, exactly what I mean.
[02:38:41] Where you, you know, you have your cup.
[02:38:43] I don't know where's my, it could be dirty.
[02:38:45] There could be cups everywhere.
[02:38:46] All available.
[02:38:47] You're like, no, I'm going to go and wash this.
[02:38:48] You know, and I'm going to use my cup.
[02:38:50] That's it.
[02:38:51] This one.
[02:38:52] Okay.
[02:38:53] We'll talk about this mug.
[02:38:54] It's technically what a travel tumbler, right?
[02:38:56] Been heard of whatever.
[02:38:57] You know, comes with a top on it's stuff.
[02:38:59] But you take all the top boom.
[02:39:01] You take it to ergonautonomically conducive to just using it as a cup.
[02:39:05] You know how if you have like threads in there to screw on a top.
[02:39:09] It's like, yeah, it's like a thing.
[02:39:12] Anyway, and that's not to mention the look.
[02:39:15] Black on black.
[02:39:16] What they call it, murdered out.
[02:39:17] You heard that expression murdered out.
[02:39:19] No.
[02:39:20] Trigger.
[02:39:21] Well, if you have time Google murdered out.
[02:39:22] Cadillac.
[02:39:23] Guitar.
[02:39:24] It's a flat mat.
[02:39:25] Okay.
[02:39:26] Painting with black wheels.
[02:39:28] So it's basically all black.
[02:39:29] Tantolin is all black.
[02:39:31] So that's this thing is murdered out technically.
[02:39:33] Flat black mat with like the logo, the 434 and the dysplonical
[02:39:39] stream is like shiny black.
[02:39:41] Very nice.
[02:39:43] Very nice.
[02:39:44] So, and that's just the design.
[02:39:46] So function wise.
[02:39:48] Perfect 30 ounces.
[02:39:50] Not 2430 straight up.
[02:39:53] And it.
[02:39:54] What is it?
[02:39:55] BPA free.
[02:39:56] All that.
[02:39:57] So you don't get poisoned.
[02:39:58] So that's a big thing.
[02:39:59] And also okay.
[02:40:00] And here's the impressive part.
[02:40:02] When I ultimately was like dang.
[02:40:04] Impressed.
[02:40:05] I guess this is like a technology is kind of been around, but I didn't know because
[02:40:08] I had that plastic cup, you know, whatever.
[02:40:11] This it'll keep.
[02:40:12] It'll separate the temperatures from inside and outside.
[02:40:15] So the inside temperature won't leak to the outside, meaning it keeps like if you have ice and cold stuff in here bro.
[02:40:21] Means it's insulated.
[02:40:22] It'll.
[02:40:23] Yeah.
[02:40:24] But it's insulated in a special crazy way.
[02:40:27] And this is with no top on by the way.
[02:40:30] You fill it up with ice your ice water.
[02:40:32] You know, it's what I did one time.
[02:40:33] I did finish like it was maybe three quarters of it still some water in there.
[02:40:36] And I just I kind of left it went to bed.
[02:40:39] The next day.
[02:40:41] I looked at it.
[02:40:43] And the ice was still in there.
[02:40:46] And yeah, sure.
[02:40:47] That doesn't mean that much, but as far as proving how it keeps the temperature.
[02:40:51] That's a lot straight up. Also, it doesn't like sweat, you know, when you have a cold drink on it on it.
[02:40:57] Yeah, if it's on your desk, there's a working desk or some stuff up.
[02:41:00] Hot day, whatever you made.
[02:41:02] It's like, yeah, it doesn't even do that.
[02:41:04] Doesn't do that at all.
[02:41:06] One time.
[02:41:07] What was outside?
[02:41:08] The pool.
[02:41:09] Whatever.
[02:41:10] Cruising.
[02:41:11] I used to water.
[02:41:12] Actually it was chocolate.
[02:41:12] T.
[02:41:12] Boom.
[02:41:13] Oh.
[02:41:13] We'll get to that too.
[02:41:15] But.
[02:41:16] So, you know, I leave it there and it's in the sun and I grab it and I'm like, oh my.
[02:41:20] This, this is going to be totally melted because I'm feeling it.
[02:41:23] The, the cup physically feeling the outside of the cup.
[02:41:26] And it's straight up hot.
[02:41:28] The sun is beaming on its hot.
[02:41:30] If I look inside ice, still the full on ice, not even melted at all.
[02:41:35] Well, I'm telling you when you replace your cup.
[02:41:38] Be that you're happy.
[02:41:39] I'm telling you right now.
[02:41:41] When you replace this cup, you're going to find all these benefits to it above and beyond just the
[02:41:45] the, the dope and size and it fits in your cup holder straight up.
[02:41:50] See how it's like the shape.
[02:41:52] Yeah.
[02:41:53] Cool.
[02:41:54] All right.
[02:41:55] Next thing.
[02:41:56] I feel like we could talk about this really.
[02:41:57] We don't want to.
[02:41:58] I'm just sitting well.
[02:41:59] I know you like it.
[02:42:00] I'm glad you like it.
[02:42:01] I like it too.
[02:42:02] Next time you're utilizing it actually.
[02:42:03] And I, I'm pressed.
[02:42:05] My teeth.
[02:42:06] I see a still icy.
[02:42:07] I mean, getting down with this cup mug for a long time.
[02:42:10] And thoroughly impressed.
[02:42:12] Anyway.
[02:42:13] So yeah, we got some, we got that on the Jockel Store.
[02:42:15] Jockel Store.com.
[02:42:16] We got it on there.
[02:42:17] Also.
[02:42:18] Should we talk about the Warrior Kid shirts?
[02:42:23] You can talk about that.
[02:42:25] All right.
[02:42:26] There are on there too.
[02:42:27] Warrior Kid shirts.
[02:42:28] Youth sizes for your kids.
[02:42:30] Boom.
[02:42:31] There it is.
[02:42:32] Very cool.
[02:42:33] Warrior kids out there.
[02:42:35] There's some layers in that one too that I just found out.
[02:42:38] By the way, your country, the colors and what.
[02:42:41] Yes.
[02:42:43] Don't worry about that.
[02:42:44] Good trick.
[02:42:45] Again, Jockel Store.com.
[02:42:46] This is the Rashgard's on there.
[02:42:47] New Rashgard's out.
[02:42:49] Maybe they're out.
[02:42:51] Putties kind of getting into like a spring.
[02:42:54] I mean, maybe summer pretty soon.
[02:42:56] So what he might not be is applicable either way.
[02:42:59] We need to start prepping the winter hoodies that I'm going to be more in charge of this time.
[02:43:03] To let their heavier and more powerful.
[02:43:05] Yeah, because you're thinking New England winter.
[02:43:08] Yeah, I'm thinking of a collier.
[02:43:09] I also think there's Chicago and Minnesota and Iowa.
[02:43:13] Yeah.
[02:43:14] I'm not thinking of coi over here.
[02:43:15] If I was in coi, I would even wear shirt.
[02:43:17] Much less sweatshirt.
[02:43:18] Brad, that was my whole point.
[02:43:20] You're like, hoodies.
[02:43:21] That's probably what is that.
[02:43:22] Yeah, you know what it was.
[02:43:23] Actually, my wife knows what these are.
[02:43:25] So I just consulted with her nonetheless.
[02:43:27] Jockel Store.com.
[02:43:28] That's some cool stuff on there.
[02:43:29] Travel monks on shirts, cool shirts, support that way.
[02:43:32] And you know, you get a little item represent in the wild.
[02:43:36] Boom.
[02:43:37] Also, support yourself with this one psychological warfare.
[02:43:42] If you don't know what that is, which I know you already do, but if you don't, it's an album with tracks.
[02:43:47] No music.
[02:43:48] It's Jockel on there.
[02:43:49] And these tracks are useful.
[02:43:50] These are utility.
[02:43:51] What do you call functional tactical tracks to help you stay on the path?
[02:43:58] You know, we talked about getting distracted.
[02:44:00] Some people get distracted by comfort.
[02:44:02] You know, like the path.
[02:44:04] The path isn't comfortable.
[02:44:05] The path isn't comfortable.
[02:44:06] It's riddled with discomfort.
[02:44:08] Riddled.
[02:44:09] And sometimes after a while, that discomfort can get to certain people at certain times.
[02:44:13] So what this psychological warfare album does is it keeps you on the path.
[02:44:19] So, for example, you want to wake up every day, early.
[02:44:24] And then that one day, you're distracted by the comfort of hitting the snooze button, getting 10 more, 20 more minutes of sleep.
[02:44:33] That's bad.
[02:44:35] That's a distraction.
[02:44:36] That's a deviation from the path.
[02:44:38] Listen to psychological warfare.
[02:44:41] What's the number?
[02:44:42] Number one, I think.
[02:44:43] Get up and get out and get a listen to that.
[02:44:45] Put it as your alarm.
[02:44:46] I dare you to hit snooze.
[02:44:48] Dare you.
[02:44:49] Jockel, just tell you.
[02:44:51] Practically, you know, practical, pragmatic way.
[02:44:54] Why you should not hit the snooze.
[02:44:56] Boom.
[02:44:57] I would say with 100% certainty that you will not hit the snooze.
[02:45:02] You will stay on the path and that goes for all these other things,
[02:45:05] deviating from diet, deviating from pushing yourself,
[02:45:08] you know, workout deviating from going to the gym in the first place.
[02:45:12] Going exactly right.
[02:45:13] Or if you have like with this procrastination situation,
[02:45:16] oh man, that's the main one that, you know, like,
[02:45:20] how you're always like, hey, I need to do this.
[02:45:22] I should do this.
[02:45:23] Just doing it.
[02:45:24] Yeah.
[02:45:25] procrastination is pretty much the thing that's going to keep you from doing it.
[02:45:29] Nonetheless, if you procrastinate, this,
[02:45:30] hey, got a little solution for you too.
[02:45:32] You know what?
[02:45:33] Psychological warfare.
[02:45:35] Jockel willing.
[02:45:36] Look for it on iTunes or Amazon Music by the way.
[02:45:39] It's a good one.
[02:45:40] That's pretty cool.
[02:45:41] Also, while you're on Amazon,
[02:45:43] you can get this book that we just covered today.
[02:45:46] Conversations with major dickwinters.
[02:45:48] Jockel White T is also available on Amazon.
[02:45:54] If you don't want to drink a sodas,
[02:45:59] you know, which no one should be drinking sodas at all.
[02:46:03] You don't need them.
[02:46:05] They're, they're actually horrible for you.
[02:46:07] But remember when we were eating sushi in New York and busted out the coke?
[02:46:10] Yeah, I was, I was going to actually just, I was surprised.
[02:46:14] I thought that you weren't going to be my friend any more than that.
[02:46:17] You know, like, you really like, I couldn't believe it.
[02:46:19] So anyway, as echo has this tradition,
[02:46:22] which to me sounds like a sugar coated lie,
[02:46:25] that when he eats sushi has a glass bottle of coke.
[02:46:28] So he takes that.
[02:46:29] I overcame my hatred for him the best I could.
[02:46:33] It's kind of like when I was talking today about like,
[02:46:35] Hey, if you're a vet, you can't look at everyone like,
[02:46:37] Hey, this person's just, I had to be, I had to be like,
[02:46:41] okay, echo's not a bad person.
[02:46:43] It's just mentally weak right now.
[02:46:45] And we'll just deal with it.
[02:46:47] Don't drink that drink, Jockel White T,
[02:46:49] which actually tastes better than coke.
[02:46:52] There's no doubt that it tastes better than coke.
[02:46:54] That's subjective, but sure.
[02:46:56] Are these serious right now?
[02:46:58] I'm saying better is a subject.
[02:47:00] Yeah, then everyone agrees within the world.
[02:47:02] Put side by side, taste test.
[02:47:05] There you go.
[02:47:06] We'll go boom.
[02:47:07] Garenty, everybody.
[02:47:08] So it's give me that, give me the Jockel White T.
[02:47:11] They don't want that.
[02:47:12] It's syrup, sugar.
[02:47:14] I think you might be 147% correct.
[02:47:17] I don't know.
[02:47:18] Absolutely.
[02:47:19] We'll do a taste test on the you can taste the coke.
[02:47:21] I'm not touching my lips to that stuff.
[02:47:24] Nasty.
[02:47:25] You're the man.
[02:47:26] One time they had a, we have a PT situation.
[02:47:29] We call them Monster Mash.
[02:47:31] And it's you just do a bunch of crazy events.
[02:47:33] Pull ups and rope climbs and carry boats around and swim.
[02:47:35] And we're doing that when I was the,
[02:47:37] the officer in charge of trade it.
[02:47:40] And so yeah, oh, I see a trade it.
[02:47:42] So I brought my son with me.
[02:47:44] And they did this Monster Mash.
[02:47:46] And one of the things you had to do in the Monster Mash.
[02:47:49] And this thing's being timed and serration on that stuff.
[02:47:51] You had to drink a full Coca Cola through a straw.
[02:47:55] So my son's doing the Monster Mash.
[02:47:57] And he's probably seven or something like that.
[02:47:59] And he'd never even had a coke before.
[02:48:02] It burned his mouth, probably.
[02:48:03] Yeah.
[02:48:04] And he just hated it.
[02:48:05] You're so nasty to him.
[02:48:07] Yeah.
[02:48:08] That's how I looked at you.
[02:48:09] That was like, dude.
[02:48:11] You're making this sick.
[02:48:12] So Jockel White T, you know,
[02:48:14] go on there, read the reviews as well.
[02:48:16] You know, you'll see things like this.
[02:48:18] And when I need to crush and power through,
[02:48:20] will the work, I drew me some Jockel White T.
[02:48:22] If I need a little extra kick to crush it,
[02:48:26] that's what I do.
[02:48:27] I've begun working fewer hours at the office.
[02:48:30] As my productivity has risen 900%.
[02:48:34] That's pretty legit.
[02:48:36] Excellent numbers.
[02:48:37] Yeah.
[02:48:38] Yeah.
[02:48:38] And obviously that's a 100% accurate because it came from an Amazon review.
[02:48:42] So.
[02:48:43] And actually,
[02:48:45] there's a warning as well.
[02:48:48] Caution regarding this product,
[02:48:49] leaving your supply of Jockel White T out in the open will require overwatch.
[02:48:53] I now have non T drinkers hitting my reserves almost as badly as dedicated to T drinkers.
[02:48:59] No double blind study required, right?
[02:49:02] That's this is the thing.
[02:49:03] It doesn't taste like T, right?
[02:49:06] It doesn't taste like T in my opinion.
[02:49:08] It tastes like.
[02:49:09] It tastes like victory.
[02:49:11] But it doesn't taste like that.
[02:49:13] So that's that.
[02:49:15] Jockel White T.
[02:49:16] You can get it on Amazon.com.
[02:49:17] Way the warrior kid.
[02:49:18] The book is out as you know.
[02:49:21] Thank you for getting it.
[02:49:23] Kids have been crushing it.
[02:49:24] It's awesome.
[02:49:25] That's one of my favorite things that has happened to me in the past.
[02:49:29] Several years is people started posting pictures of their kids reading.
[02:49:35] Way the warrior kid.
[02:49:37] Yeah.
[02:49:38] And that was awesome for me to see.
[02:49:42] I know.
[02:49:43] I know.
[02:49:44] Those kids are reading that book.
[02:49:46] And they're thinking that they're going to get a little bit better.
[02:49:49] A little bit stronger, a little bit faster, a little bit smarter.
[02:49:52] And they're going to see.
[02:49:53] And people are sending me pictures of kids doing pushups and kids doing.
[02:49:56] A guy sent me a video of his kid.
[02:50:00] You know how you have little night vision in your kids room to you can monitor them.
[02:50:05] Oh, like on a little monitor.
[02:50:06] Yeah.
[02:50:07] A little monitor.
[02:50:08] Yeah.
[02:50:09] He sent me a picture of video of the monitor.
[02:50:12] The kids in the room after night time after bedtime.
[02:50:15] Guess what the kids doing.
[02:50:16] Pushups.
[02:50:17] He's doing pushups.
[02:50:19] Why?
[02:50:20] You want to get stronger.
[02:50:21] Want to get better.
[02:50:22] So yeah.
[02:50:23] Get that if you got kids, get it from them.
[02:50:25] If you're an adult, that's cool.
[02:50:26] Get it anyways.
[02:50:27] I'll do it.
[02:50:28] I'll have a lot to learn from Uncle Jake myself included.
[02:50:31] So run out, go to your local bookstore.
[02:50:36] And grab copies if they don't have it in your local bookstore.
[02:50:40] Tell them to get it.
[02:50:42] So that other kids can see it and get it.
[02:50:46] Let's make people better.
[02:50:47] Also you can preorder Displunicles Freedom Field Manual.
[02:50:50] Again, you can find it in the get after it.
[02:50:53] Section of any bookstore or online bookseller.
[02:50:56] It is the only book in that section.
[02:50:58] If your bookstore doesn't have that section.
[02:51:01] Which it probably won't tell them to get after it.
[02:51:04] And make one.
[02:51:06] And then put Displunicles Freedom there and get a copy of it for yourself.
[02:51:11] Extreme ownership.
[02:51:13] Yes, the fundamental principles of combat leadership.
[02:51:16] They will help you win in any capacity on the battlefield on the beat in business in life.
[02:51:23] Extreme ownership written by myself and my brother, Lave Babin.
[02:51:28] You can get that book as well.
[02:51:30] If you need more than the podcast and the book, that's fine.
[02:51:34] It's okay.
[02:51:35] Contact our leadership and management consulting company,
[02:51:38] echelon front info at echelon front dot com.
[02:51:42] Now the master.
[02:51:44] The master.
[02:51:45] We just got done with master 002 in New York City.
[02:51:49] What's your assessment?
[02:51:50] Echo Trust.
[02:51:51] My assessment was that it it was an upgraded.
[02:51:55] It is.
[02:51:56] It wasn't upgrade from the first one.
[02:51:58] And that's in a lot because that first one was that I was like,
[02:52:01] Dang, that was really impactful to the kind of where and I don't really say like,
[02:52:05] This event was impactful.
[02:52:06] I don't use that word.
[02:52:07] Not because I'm above it or nothing like that.
[02:52:09] But I'm just saying to say it, it got to be true.
[02:52:11] So that first one was that was like, dang, this is really good.
[02:52:16] From top to bottom, like even the material,
[02:52:19] boom, it's like all usable material, all of it.
[02:52:23] And then like I always say and I think people overlooked this part.
[02:52:26] A lot of time like just the social element.
[02:52:28] It's so easy to make friends with everyone because they all kind of have the same kind of interesting goals.
[02:52:33] And one way or another there's going to be some overlap there.
[02:52:35] And then you just to part was fun too.
[02:52:37] You know, it's like, it's just this great event, you know.
[02:52:40] And then the second one and I wasn't.
[02:52:42] I'm beyond us with you.
[02:52:43] I wasn't as fired up because it was in New York.
[02:52:46] It's like outside of the comfort zone.
[02:52:49] The first one here, San Diego.
[02:52:50] I was like, well, sweet, proud of this like,
[02:52:51] You was even better.
[02:52:53] That's that this past one was better.
[02:52:55] Yeah, it was got getting great feedback.
[02:52:57] Awesome.
[02:52:58] And like you said, I think the important, well, one of the most important things that you just said is it's very pragmatic.
[02:53:03] Yeah.
[02:53:04] It's not like it's not like, hey, you're going to learn some stuff,
[02:53:07] but it's not going to be really applicable.
[02:53:09] No, no, no.
[02:53:10] It's going to be applicable.
[02:53:11] Yeah.
[02:53:12] You walk out when you finish that section and we get done talking about it.
[02:53:15] Boom.
[02:53:16] You can, you can implement that immediately.
[02:53:18] Yeah, it's interesting.
[02:53:19] You guys have like a lot of military stories and examples, you know.
[02:53:22] And then, but when you go to the Q&A,
[02:53:24] you know, the people with their questions, not one of them is military.
[02:53:27] Yeah.
[02:53:28] It's all work.
[02:53:29] Maybe relationship may be here and there, but it's like at work.
[02:53:32] Yeah.
[02:53:33] Yeah.
[02:53:34] And exactly and every one of those situations, we answer them.
[02:53:36] I'd say we answer them with both business examples that we've experienced and military examples.
[02:53:40] But yeah, you, you absolutely, we've seen this the thing.
[02:53:44] We've seen it happen before.
[02:53:45] Whatever that little issue is that you're having,
[02:53:48] Yeah.
[02:53:48] I've seen it before.
[02:53:49] You know, I've seen it before.
[02:53:50] I've seen something like it.
[02:53:51] We'll be able to find an answer.
[02:53:53] It's an unusual conclusion and move forward with the techniques, the principles that we talk about in extreme ownership.
[02:53:57] But it's like this.
[02:53:59] Extreme ownership.
[02:54:00] The book is an awesome way to get the fundamental principles.
[02:54:03] But when you come to the event, now you can really personalize it.
[02:54:08] You know, you can really make sense of it.
[02:54:10] It's just like learning you.
[02:54:11] It's cool.
[02:54:12] Yeah.
[02:54:13] Watch the YouTube videos.
[02:54:14] Yeah.
[02:54:14] Also go to class.
[02:54:15] Also go to the seminar.
[02:54:16] Learn it from as many different angles as you can because the more angles you learn.
[02:54:20] it from the better you the more proficient you'll be at applying them to your world.
[02:54:24] Yeah and that's not, you know you talk about GJ2. Another cool part about it is you
[02:54:30] know when we teach the GJ2 on the last day. Like you can come and actually like roll
[02:54:35] more try to choke. Joko. Yeah you come and bring it. You think it's kind of like you
[02:54:41] know because think about it. Most times like if you go to like a you know oh yeah yeah you can't
[02:54:47] go try to choke the guy at the end of it. You know you can't say like um hey I'm going to go see
[02:54:51] this concert and then afterwards I'm going to pick up guitar and play you know the solos with
[02:54:55] you know you're clapped in. Yeah exactly right. That doesn't happen and that's you can't.
[02:55:00] Yeah and this is like like actually choking up the person you know so that's like an added element you know
[02:55:06] I mean I got to roll with plenty of the guys man it's just so cool to be like oh yeah you know we talking
[02:55:11] we talk about this and then get it off the stairs you know. And so anyways if you didn't make
[02:55:16] it to New York City which was awesome timescwhere we had a great time. The next one we're having
[02:55:21] July 13th and 14th in Austin Texas the Omni Barton Creek resort and spa. Now this is one thing
[02:55:28] that it just is what it is. In New York we we were planning to do like 350 people and then we sold
[02:55:36] that out we opened it up for another 50 and we and we and we and we had to expand our room to get that
[02:55:43] and then that sold out and so then we we rearranged the the the situation in there to get more
[02:55:49] people in there. It looks like in Austin we're capped the we can't get any bigger than the room that we've
[02:55:54] got and so it's 350. So if you want to come sign up quick before it gets sold out because there's no
[02:56:01] way we can expand it into more people. So just be be aware of that. If you can't make that for 13th
[02:56:07] and 14th July 13th and 14th in Austin Texas San Diego California September 14th and 15th we're
[02:56:13] back in San Diego for follow on operations. So come and get it while you're waiting for the
[02:56:19] master if you need to pass communications to myself or echo Charles we can be found on the inner
[02:56:28] webs Twitter Instagram plus we are on that Facebook. Echo is at Echo Charles and I am at
[02:56:43] Jocco Willink. And thanks to everyone for listening to the podcast for sharing the podcast for
[02:56:49] supporting the podcast. We really do appreciate it thanks the military personnel out there that are
[02:56:56] protecting our freedoms overseas and also the law enforcement the firefighters EMTs first responders
[02:57:05] that keep us safe here at home thanks to you all and to everyone whatever your mission might be.
[02:57:19] Let's think about Dick Winners personal quest very simple to excel in everything he did.
[02:57:31] Excel and everything he did we should do the same excel in everything we do.
[02:57:39] From working to working now from the way we treat people to the way we treat ourselves
[02:57:55] Excel put forth your greatest effort in everything you do from a small seemingly meaningless
[02:58:06] tasks to the big goals as you attack those goals or as those goals start to grind you down.
[02:58:15] Remember the obsessive pure determined effort that Dick Winners taught us all
[02:58:26] and go out there and get after it. So until next time this is Echo and Jocco out.