Jocko Podcast 66 w/ Echo Charles - HR McMaster, Liars, Defending Bad Leaders, Dealing w/ The Grind

2017-03-15T18:21:51Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening/Gen. HR McMaster's account in the First Gulf War. The Battle of 73 Easting. Tactical & Strategic lessons learned. 0:57:23 - The 4 Fallacies of Warfare. 1:24:50 - QUESTIONS and ANSWERS from the interwebs. 1:24:56 - Should you defend bad leaders to your men? 1:40:05 - How to avoid taking things too personally. 1:51:51 - Using too much strength in Jiu Jitsu. Training for better technique. 2:01:54 - What to do when someone lies, betrays trust, or "destroys" you. 2:15:12 - Direct Attack and Indirect Attack strategies. 2:17:21 - Dealing with the Daily Grind Struggle. 2:27:49 - Suggestions on how to actually employ Extreme Ownership and Discipline. 2:30:42 - Support, Cool Onnit, Amazon, JockoStore stuff, with Jocko White Tea and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), (Jocko's Kids' Book) Way of the Warrior Kid, and The Muster002 2:58:04 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

If you're insecure about it, that's when it's going to be, because you can be like, there can be, okay, you know, let's say guys have a receding here like, and they're like, oh, I don't care about that at all. But yeah, if it's alive, Q&A, you know how like at like the mustard or you know, when you guys, okay, we're going to do some Q&A. I mean, passively I did because I liked certain creative things and that, you know, materialized for sure, but actively, like consciously, I was never, you know, I was certain people they're like, I want to be at architect for sure. But if some people are complaining, you're going to are you're going straight up like every row is ADCC on the line like for death, you know, kind of more in that direct. So it's kind of like, it's like an official way to kind of jump in the game, you know, you know what I mean? No, but here's the thing, but sometimes you do, because you know, and you, sometimes it's like a weird like mental problem, but, you know, girls, for example, I'm not saying all girls, but I'm gonna totally generalize right now. There's like a mediocre level of niceness that's like, okay, that seems like he's melal, but if you guys mean like too aggressive or too defensive or too nice, they can tell. You know, I want to if I want you to be competitive because I want an accurate look of what it's like to roll with juggle or a guy like juggle big, strong, good at you. Chef and Richie, they're like, hey, you know tomorrow night because I went rolled the first night at their fight fit and the the first night, you know, we trained a little bit, you know, what we were hanging out It's like when Jody came on, Jody came on, like after we were hanging out for like an hour, he's like, yeah, man, we're not just coming down. And I know a lot of times if there's family history and certain things is like, they know, you know, and they wind up doing it a lot of times. Somebody asked me some dead serious question, like a very serious, you know, something that's emotional to me like about losing guys or something like that. I've heard guys like they go to parties and they'll do like dips or push-ups before they walk in because like, so they're like more pumped. And the thing is, I don't know, you know, you know, the guy having met or whatever, and you get that feeling like that guy's representing. I'm not going anywhere that's a human right that's a human that's a sentimental value it's like my house that I live in you're not going to take my house for me like if you if people came to try and take my house away from me. Or even guys, especially like if they're into like their physique or something like that, were, I don't know, they're at a party or so. So people will like, hey, XYZ, make that into a shirt or you know, hey, you said to make that into a shirt or they'll just come up with their own thing, you know, prioritize X-X out But going but we're going like you know we're just going we're flowing. Was that a junk episode kind of thing or something like, did I not, you know how you, you're good at explaining stuff and simplifying them or whatever, maybe it was like an attack on matters. Like, that even necessarily saying, you know, romantic or boyfriend or friend, any kind of relationship, if you know the person really well, you can tell on something's off just a little bit. It's not like I'm going to pull like if it's your muscle or something like a straightened injury. And clearly, you know, when you lose someone that's close to you, see the reason I guess the reason that I didn't think of this is because in the teams, you kind of like, you guys get killed, you know. Lean towards supporting the chain of command because because the guys are going to know when you give them that little, little pressure relief, you say, hey, I know this is this is a little bit of a strange plan. Let's like in every day thing, you know, like people they'll drink coffee every single day. If he wouldn't though, he would be like his flow would be like a fast piece and you could even try to hold them down and he'd just be like flowing flowing flowing flowing you'd get you in a good position. Anyway, you know, they'll get that kind of where they'll be like, oh, I'm, they'll think that, oh, I'm not looking very cut up for something like that. If you treat them like robots you're they're not going to work for you they're going to they're going to rebel against you the robot will do with the robot is told but people on robots. I think you can create a like how you present this and what parts you think are important right are going to be slightly different even if the person is the same interest is there it's going to be different. If I say hey I really don't feel like reading this book you know I don't feel like reading this book for the podcast can you read this for me. You hear that talking police, you know, like cops have like good in, in the first. It helps actually, this is like for real help night and night where if you look at that end exit strategy as like a, you know, a goal or whatever. If you spend one year doing something, focus, like, hey, I got to get, could even something like, I'm going to play the piano. You know, you say, hey, look, guys, I know the boss is not exactly perfect, but I think he means well, if what he's trying to do, and that way, we need to focus for that reason, we need to focus on executing. You know, like, because a lot of times, you don't want, I don't know. You know, like my, you know, you can be strong, but when you got your elbow jacked up from being strong, really. If you fail, like if it's like too much or it feels like too much or that guy's there to just nudge you, as much as you need. And it makes total sense when you're in the situation though, you know, like you can't just detach and be like, what are the red flags that it's all you're too busy missing the person or whatever your disaster. But it's like, I think it's like oxytocin or something where it's, it's basically something that's what I'm going to, but you feel this bond with this specific person. You know how like the cop can tell like, oh, this guy's being too nice. You know what now that you mentioned it and some people that are like that they have like an on and off switch. You know, they'd be like noodles, you know, especially when you're a partner, right? Because it seems like, okay, all that paperwork, it's almost like the paperwork was like an affront, dude. But then you start having the American socialist party that telling you that communist are good and all the sudden kids over there going, hey, look, I don't even know what's going on. If you were seeing those before, they, they make jelly beans that taste like puked the taste like what like on purpose. And that McMaster really McMaster really understood really understood this fact and and you know I'm giving a lot of credit to McMaster but there's a lot I mean there's way more guys that I'm talking about than I don't have them not going through their names but there's a lot of guys that contributed to this idea and didn't outstanding job. Like when you put your weight on him and he would just like like jellyfish. They need to get right out of it and do another you know like he was really good at flowing to the point where you get kind of tired because you're moving so much.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast, number 66.
[00:00:04] With echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:07] Good evening, echo.
[00:00:08] Good evening.
[00:00:12] At 325, the troop once again received orders to attack.
[00:00:18] I gave an order full of enthusiasm.
[00:00:20] I told the troop we attack in five minutes to the 70 Easting.
[00:00:25] This is the movement we have all awaited.
[00:00:28] Although we knew the general locations of large enemy units,
[00:00:32] we had not received detailed intelligence about the enemy we were to encounter.
[00:00:37] I had a feeling, however, that this time we would meet the enemy.
[00:00:42] Lieutenant Gautier, known for his deadpan sense of humor, asked on the radio,
[00:00:48] what kind of contact can we expect?
[00:00:51] I replied, enemy contact.
[00:00:54] He said, Roger, that's the best kind.
[00:00:58] And the troop rolled forward through the blowing sand.
[00:01:03] And that's a little excerpt from a personal account from a guy by the name of HR McMaster.
[00:01:12] He may have heard about recently coming into a higher profile job in the current administration.
[00:01:23] But he's a very interesting guy, and I wanted to talk a little bit about his experience
[00:01:28] and some of the things that he said about, that's the way he sees things.
[00:01:32] And so he was in this big battle in the first Gulf War as a captain.
[00:01:39] So in charge of a group of 140 guys.
[00:01:44] And he fought in this battle called the Battle of 73 Easting.
[00:01:47] And I'm going to go a little excerpt from Wikipedia that sort of gives you the broad.
[00:01:53] I do what was going on.
[00:01:54] The Battle of 73 Easting refers narrowly to the violent armored combat action that took place
[00:01:59] in the final hours of second ACR's covering force operation in the zone of second squadron
[00:02:06] and in the northern third of the third squadron zone.
[00:02:10] In the battle, four of second ACR's armored cavalry troops, troops E, G, and I with
[00:02:19] troop K contributing to I troops fight, totaling about 36 M1A1 tanks defeated two enemy
[00:02:27] brigades, the 18th brigade, and later in the day the 9th armored brigade.
[00:02:32] So it's interesting, you have a legitimate tank battle, right?
[00:02:37] Like a World War II style tank battle that took place in the first Gulf War.
[00:02:40] And that's what this is talking about.
[00:02:42] And McMaster at the time McMaster was in charge of Eagle Troop.
[00:02:49] So they got some good details in here.
[00:02:51] Again, this is very simple.
[00:02:53] One of the best clearest descriptions of what happened.
[00:02:57] It was actually on Wikipedia.
[00:02:59] So I just pulled some of that.
[00:03:02] So here we go, a little bit of what Eagle Troop did.
[00:03:06] But four 10 PM Eagle Troop received fire from an Iraqi infantry position in a cluster of
[00:03:12] buildings.
[00:03:13] Eagle Troop Abrams and Bradleys returned fire.
[00:03:17] Silence the Iraqi guns took prisoners and continued east with the two tank platoons leading.
[00:03:24] The 9 M1A1 tanks of Eagle Troop destroyed 28 Iraqi tanks, 16 personnel carriers, and
[00:03:31] 30 trucks in 23 minutes with no American losses.
[00:03:37] So you got 9 tanks against 28 tanks and 16 personnel carriers and 30 trucks.
[00:03:45] And the 9 tanks win.
[00:03:48] That's this domination battlefield domination.
[00:03:51] And there's a bunch of technical reasons as well as leadership reasons that we're going
[00:03:55] to get into.
[00:03:57] Next, at about 420 Eagle Crested a low rise and surprised an Iraqi tank company set up in
[00:04:04] a reverse slope defense on the 70 East.
[00:04:07] Captain McMaster leading the attack immediately engaged that position destroying the
[00:04:12] first of the eight enemy tanks to his front.
[00:04:15] His two tank platoons finished the rest.
[00:04:18] So they're just hammering hammering these Iraqi tanks.
[00:04:25] Three kilometers to the east McMaster could see T72s those are the tanks that the Iraqis
[00:04:31] are using in prepared positions.
[00:04:34] Continually his attack passed the limit.
[00:04:36] The 70 limit of advance.
[00:04:37] So the way maps are set up, there's there's coordinates on them and each one of the
[00:04:42] coordinates.
[00:04:43] Each one of the lines that runs north south has a has a label to it 69 70 71 72 73.
[00:04:50] So he had been told not to go past the 70 East thing.
[00:04:53] That's what they're saying.
[00:04:54] Because his limit of advance, these are all really common military terms.
[00:04:57] They say, hey, you're not allowed to go past this road or this coordinate on a map and they
[00:05:01] just call that a limit of advance.
[00:05:04] So he was supposed to stop at 70.
[00:05:06] He asked to get after a little bit of the other.
[00:05:09] Continuing his attack passed the 70 limit of advance, he fought his way through an infantry
[00:05:12] defense position and on the high ground along the 74 East.
[00:05:18] And this is going now that I mixed this in here with the Wikipedia, which was a very simple
[00:05:23] explanation of what happened.
[00:05:25] Now going into a personal account that McMaster wrote himself when he was a young captain.
[00:05:32] So here we go from Captain McMaster's account.
[00:05:34] Lieutenant Gifford called me from the command post to remind me that the 70 East was the
[00:05:38] limit of advance.
[00:05:40] We were already beyond it.
[00:05:42] I told him I can't stop.
[00:05:44] We're still in contact.
[00:05:45] Tell them I'm sorry.
[00:05:47] Gifford explained the situation to the squadron headquarters on the radio.
[00:05:51] Major McGregor was forward with our tanks and fully understood the situation.
[00:05:55] If we had stopped, we would have forfeited the shock effect we had inflicted on the enemy.
[00:06:00] Had we halted, we would have given the enemy further to the east and opportunities
[00:06:05] to organize an effort against us while we presented them with stationary targets.
[00:06:10] We had the advantage and had to finish the battle rapidly.
[00:06:14] We would press the attack until all of the enemy were destroyed or until they surrendered.
[00:06:20] That's a pretty bold move to just push.
[00:06:23] It's also a risky move.
[00:06:24] I'll say the biggest risk of it is having a blue on blue situation unfold.
[00:06:28] I think it makes a lot easier in the fact that this was daytime and that just makes it
[00:06:34] everything so much more clear in the daytime.
[00:06:37] You could obviously make some mistakes.
[00:06:39] If you're pushing that limited advance is there for a reason and you might have some
[00:06:42] other group that's controlling that sector.
[00:06:44] You also might have air power that the air power might be told, hey, if you see any
[00:06:48] vehicles moving past 70 Easting, you can
[00:06:50] start dropping bombs.
[00:06:52] You do have to be very cautious when you make an aggressive move like this.
[00:06:56] I bet McMaster himself would go back and say, you know what I should have done as I
[00:07:00] should have given him a heads up.
[00:07:01] I'm pushing past 70 Easting.
[00:07:02] Please let everybody know.
[00:07:05] This is going back to the wiki account here.
[00:07:08] There he encountered a destroyed another tank unit of 18 T72s.
[00:07:14] In that accident, the Iraqis stood their ground and attempted to maneuver against the
[00:07:17] troop.
[00:07:18] This was the first determined defense the regiment had encountered in three days of operations.
[00:07:24] Still, the Iraqi troop had been surprised because of the inclement weather and were quickly
[00:07:28] destroyed by the better trained and better equipped American troops.
[00:07:34] After defeating that force, McMaster sent a scout platoon of two Bradley's North to regain
[00:07:39] contact with troop G. In doing that, the scout platoon encountered another Iraqi tank
[00:07:44] position of 13 T72s which they destroyed with tow missiles.
[00:07:51] So as these guys are just everywhere, they find these Iraqi tanks, they're just crushing
[00:07:57] them.
[00:07:58] This is going back to McMaster's account again.
[00:08:01] I jumped on top of my tank to give the crew room to cross load ammunition while I monitored
[00:08:06] the radio.
[00:08:07] I surveyed the fires which surrounded the troop.
[00:08:12] It seemed as if the action had only lasted seconds.
[00:08:15] I felt no significant emotion during the battle.
[00:08:19] I think I had simply been too busy.
[00:08:22] I realized that I had not eaten all day.
[00:08:24] I torn to an MRE, package, and devoured a dinner of cold potatoes and ham.
[00:08:31] I gulp down some water and the quick infusion seemed to slow the flow of adrenaline.
[00:08:38] So I thought that was interesting.
[00:08:39] He was just doing his job. He wasn't getting emotional and just getting it done.
[00:08:45] Then the ceasefire comes the next day and that's it.
[00:08:49] The war's over.
[00:08:50] I mean this was the war was 72 hours and the war's over.
[00:08:55] He kind of talks about what are you thinking here once they hear the ceasefire.
[00:09:01] Back to McMaster's account.
[00:09:02] Eagle troop had taken no casualties.
[00:09:05] I and other soldiers offered prayers of thanks to God.
[00:09:09] We did not glow over our victory.
[00:09:11] We had simply done our part in liberating Kuwait from the treachery and inhumanity of Saddam
[00:09:16] Hussein and his Republican guard, Henshman.
[00:09:20] We surprised the enemy on the 26th February.
[00:09:24] That surprise and the bold action and teamwork of the troop soldiers contributed to the
[00:09:28] route that is now known as the Battle of 73 East.
[00:09:33] In general, the Iraqis were unprepared for the United States Army.
[00:09:38] Americans are better trained and equipped.
[00:09:41] The true decisive factor, however, was the American soldier.
[00:09:46] He is the best at what he does and absolutely dedicated to serving his country.
[00:09:52] Our soldiers were aggressive and battle yet demonstrated great discipline and compassion for
[00:09:57] their enemy.
[00:09:58] I am grateful that I had the opportunity to serve with them in this action.
[00:10:04] Captain H. R. McMaster, E. Troop, two, two, A. C. R.
[00:10:12] So in and I didn't go into it too much of I didn't go into it at all but they took a lot
[00:10:17] of prisoners as well.
[00:10:18] They weren't just killing everyone.
[00:10:19] There was a lot of people that were surrounding a lot of Iraqi soldiers that were
[00:10:21] surrendering and they were doing their best to take care of those guys.
[00:10:24] And there are also some that pretended to surrender and then attacked.
[00:10:29] So they had a little bit of both and they as McMaster said, they showed great discipline
[00:10:34] and compassion for the enemy.
[00:10:36] Now, you can go online and you can read the full account of what this whole battle felt
[00:10:43] like.
[00:10:44] But he recently wrote, so now he's at the U.S. a captain at the time, 103 and now he's
[00:10:52] a lieutenant general with three star and there's a website called the strategy bridge.org.
[00:11:00] And there's an article there which is written by McMaster.
[00:11:05] And he goes through the lessons that he learned in that battle.
[00:11:10] And the article is called, something along the lines of, hey, guidance for small unit
[00:11:18] leaders.
[00:11:20] So I thought there were some, some good solid lessons learned that he brought back.
[00:11:27] Some of them go through them.
[00:11:29] Number one, lead from the front.
[00:11:33] Leaders must be forward to gain a clear picture and make decisions.
[00:11:38] As Sergeant Harris engaged with 25 millimeter, Lieutenant Gautier moved forward to assess
[00:11:43] and further develop the situation.
[00:11:46] So to explain that, you've got a sergeant that's like engaging the enemy and then
[00:11:51] Lieutenant, he doesn't just sit there.
[00:11:53] He goes forward to find out what's going on and assess what's happening.
[00:11:56] So as a leader, when your troops are getting busy doing the work, what can you do?
[00:12:01] Don't get disdon't get targeted, fixated on your own guys in the work that they're doing.
[00:12:04] Look around, go forward, move to a different position where you can see more.
[00:12:11] To the book, Gautier fired a tone missile into the center of the enemy position in the
[00:12:16] village to orient our tanks.
[00:12:19] After our gunner, Staff Sergeant Craig Koch fired a subsequent tank round to mark center,
[00:12:24] all nine tanks fired high explosive rounds into the village simultaneously to suppress
[00:12:28] the enemy position.
[00:12:30] Despite the secondary explosions in the village to itself, first platoon maintained its primary
[00:12:35] observation to the east.
[00:12:37] So he's basically marking their position, Lieutenant Gautier basically marks the position.
[00:12:44] So not only did he move and observe what was happening, then he's directing everyone
[00:12:50] else once he does that.
[00:12:52] So it's a really simple combat you hear it all the time, lead from the front.
[00:12:55] Now can you get too far forward?
[00:12:57] Yes, you absolutely can.
[00:13:00] If you're the guy that's actually engaging the enemy and you're having to either
[00:13:05] with your weapon in a tank or your weapon, your personal weapon on your rifle and you're
[00:13:10] the leader and you're actually shooting bad guys well, then you got some issues because
[00:13:13] you need to be looking around.
[00:13:14] You need to be seeing what the next move is going to be.
[00:13:16] So lead from the front, but always the dichotomy is there don't go so far forward that
[00:13:20] you lose the ability to look around and observe what's happening.
[00:13:26] Number two, shoot first.
[00:13:31] If you know where friendly forces are and there is not a danger of civilian casualties,
[00:13:35] do not hesitate to shoot or conduct reconnaissance by fire.
[00:13:39] The side that shoots first has a tremendous advantage.
[00:13:43] Staff Sergeant David Lawrence was the commander of First Platoon's Northernmost Bradley.
[00:13:48] When his gunner, Sergeant Bradley Feldman said, hey, I've got a hot spot out there.
[00:13:53] I'm not sure what it is.
[00:13:55] Lawrence responded, put a toe in it.
[00:13:58] See what it is.
[00:13:59] The toe is a toe missile.
[00:14:02] Lawrence identified the hot spot as a T72 as the turret was ripped from its hull in the
[00:14:07] ensuing explosion.
[00:14:09] Our troops experience was consistent with Erwin Rommel's observation in his World War
[00:14:14] One book Infantry Attacks.
[00:14:15] And this is a Rommel talking.
[00:14:17] I have found again and again in encounter actions, in encounter actions, the day goes to
[00:14:22] the side that is first to plaster its opponents with fire.
[00:14:28] And I think that's the first route first.
[00:14:30] And out of that, real simple, be aggressive.
[00:14:33] Now he points out very clearly here, you know, where there's where you know where friendly
[00:14:40] forces are, right?
[00:14:42] You know where friendly forces are because obviously that can go sideways.
[00:14:46] And by the way, when he pushed past his limit of advance, now also no one knew or
[00:14:51] he was.
[00:14:52] So he need to be careful in that situation.
[00:14:54] That aggressive being aggressive with fire is something you have to do.
[00:15:00] And you can see, like they saw hot spot out there on their thermal, I don't know what this
[00:15:04] is.
[00:15:05] Yeah, put it on it.
[00:15:06] We know it's not good guys.
[00:15:08] Okay.
[00:15:09] Blast it.
[00:15:10] We had a, I've been in Baghdad on my first deployment for like a couple days.
[00:15:16] And we went out on an operation.
[00:15:21] And anyways, when we were coming back, we got ambushed and wasn't a big deal.
[00:15:24] But like, we, you know, we received fire and so we returned fire.
[00:15:28] And basically we returned fire heavily and, and we were getting after it.
[00:15:34] Yeah.
[00:15:35] This is when we didn't have any armor on our home, these.
[00:15:38] They were just, there's open.
[00:15:40] They didn't have doors.
[00:15:41] So we didn't have armor on these.
[00:15:43] Not many people didn't in a racket that time in 2003.
[00:15:46] So what we had done is we had taken the doors completely off.
[00:15:50] And then we'd taken our seats and turned them so they faced outwards.
[00:15:54] So we, and we, we'd have our feet like hanging out of the home view or maybe sitting on these,
[00:16:00] these big rails that we built along the side.
[00:16:02] And so we'd be facing out.
[00:16:04] It was, you were in a, you were basically in a position to shoot it all times.
[00:16:07] And because the way a home view set up with doors on either side and then people in the back,
[00:16:11] you had 360 degrees of, of visibility and of, feels a fire coming out of,
[00:16:19] every Humvee.
[00:16:20] And so when we got, we were driving, we were all not, we had just done a little operation,
[00:16:25] we were coming back.
[00:16:26] And as we were coming back, we started taking fire.
[00:16:28] And so we just returned fire.
[00:16:29] It was a massive return of fire.
[00:16:31] Like I think the enemy was pre-overwhelmed with it.
[00:16:36] And we got back.
[00:16:38] And everyone was kind of like, well, we kind of, we kind of laid it down.
[00:16:41] We went through a lot of rounds in a very short period of time.
[00:16:44] And the reason I'm saying this story is because that was my platoon.
[00:16:48] And so we get back and, and we're kind of debriefing.
[00:16:51] And then the next day, we're going out of another operation.
[00:16:56] And I don't know if this story is going to make any sense, but the next day we're going
[00:17:00] out of another operation.
[00:17:01] And one of my bros, who wasn't, who is my senior and listed advisor at the time.
[00:17:06] But he wasn't on that mission that we just did.
[00:17:09] And he's, he goes, listen, if you guys take contact, you need to shoot back.
[00:17:13] You can't be afraid to fire.
[00:17:15] And I made some combat. Like, don't worry. We'll be good to get hold of one.
[00:17:18] And here's the phrase, this year.
[00:17:20] And then everyone laughed because they knew that we put down a lot of lead.
[00:17:23] If you want to trade bullets with us, we'll play that game.
[00:17:26] We don't mind trading some bullets.
[00:17:28] So the same thing though.
[00:17:31] If you start feeling like you're going to get contacted.
[00:17:33] And then that's another thing is to just, you know, when you're in a firefight,
[00:17:37] where do you think the enemy might be?
[00:17:39] And we heard this a lot. The Korean Marines were talking about the Marines,
[00:17:42] the Marines, the US Marines that were in Korea. We're talking about that.
[00:17:45] Hey, you're going to put fire down where we think the enemy might be.
[00:17:48] Because that's where, you know, you're looking at an area.
[00:17:51] And there's a good covered position.
[00:17:53] There's a bad guy. It's probably going to be there. Put fire on him.
[00:17:56] Shoot first. Lesson number two from General McMaster.
[00:18:01] All right. Number three.
[00:18:03] Fight through the fog of battle.
[00:18:07] Be prepared for confusion and concurrent activity.
[00:18:11] As we suppressed enemy positions in the village,
[00:18:14] while Lawrence was launching a missile,
[00:18:16] the troop received permission to advance to the 70 East.
[00:18:20] I instructed First Platoon to resume movement to the East.
[00:18:24] Lieutenant Peshchek did not respond immediately because Lawrence was reporting on the Platoon radio net.
[00:18:30] Contact, contact, east, tank.
[00:18:34] Simple orders and complete reports are essential to maintaining common understanding
[00:18:40] in battle.
[00:18:43] So there's another example of got to keep things simple.
[00:18:47] And he's specifically talking about how you communicate with other people on the radio.
[00:18:54] That's what he's talking about. You have to communicate simply and clearly in order for people to understand what's happening.
[00:19:01] That can mean if you give a lot of times you see this people trying to give too much detail.
[00:19:06] Right. Listen to this contact, contact, east, tank.
[00:19:11] That's it. Where's the contact? It's to the east. What is it? It's a tank.
[00:19:15] That's it. That's what we need to know. Now everybody knows it's going on.
[00:19:18] If you said, hey, I've got a contact. He's about 480 meters.
[00:19:21] It is a T72 tank. It's moving in an eastward. No, we don't care about any of that right now.
[00:19:26] Do we don't care about any of that? Just tell us what is happening.
[00:19:30] And that's one of the things that can help you fight through the fog of battle.
[00:19:34] That contact call is actually a standard operating procedure.
[00:19:38] I'm assuming, which is because we would do this in the seal teams.
[00:19:42] You'd give what type of contact it is, what direction or sorry, what bearing and what distance.
[00:19:47] So you'd say machine gun fire 150 meters for a clock.
[00:19:52] And now everybody gets a very quick read of what's happening because you can't,
[00:19:56] not everyone's going to see where the firing came from.
[00:19:58] So even having a standard operating procedure to keep your, your verbiage limited is important.
[00:20:03] There's calls, but all, everything we do in the seal teams basically has a very simple call that you can make.
[00:20:12] And it's broken down into like three words contact front online.
[00:20:17] You know, that's it. Everyone knows what to do.
[00:20:20] Every seal you tell them contact front online, they know what to do.
[00:20:24] Number four.
[00:20:29] Follow your instincts and intuition.
[00:20:32] As Sergeant Feldman launched the tow missile, I decided to go to a tank's lead formation and instructed green and white the tank platoons to follow my move.
[00:20:43] First platoon pulled in behind as the tank wedge moved forward and covered the tanks rear.
[00:20:49] Third platoon retained responsibility for flank security.
[00:20:52] Got to maintain that flank security.
[00:20:55] As we began moving forward, first platoon responding to the contact report on their platoon radio net,
[00:21:01] began firing 25 millimeter high explosive munitions across the front.
[00:21:05] It was a little unnerving for the tanks as we moved forward.
[00:21:09] I gave first platoon a ceasefire order.
[00:21:12] Red one, this is black sex ceasefire.
[00:21:15] The two tank platoons were slightly delayed.
[00:21:18] As our tank came over the crest of the imperceptible rise north of the village,
[00:21:23] Sergeant Craig Koch, the gunner reported tanks direct front.
[00:21:28] I counted 80, 70, 2s in prepared positions.
[00:21:32] They were at close range and visible to the naked eye.
[00:21:37] So he's talking about trusting your instincts and trusting your intuition and my,
[00:21:42] and that's what he's doing here.
[00:21:44] He's seeing things happening.
[00:21:45] He's seeing things unfold.
[00:21:46] He says, hey, go on to this formation boom.
[00:21:49] Everyone goes in this formation.
[00:21:50] He's acting off of instinct.
[00:21:51] But what's important here is where do you're instinct and where is your intuition come from?
[00:21:55] It comes from training and experience.
[00:21:57] That's where it comes from.
[00:21:59] Now, it could be hard to get combat experience.
[00:22:01] We hadn't had a tank battle in, well, since World War II.
[00:22:06] There's been no major tank battles in here.
[00:22:08] These guys are, no, none of these people ever been in a tank battle before.
[00:22:11] And now they're in a tank battle.
[00:22:12] So how do you do that?
[00:22:13] You've got to do realistic simulated training.
[00:22:15] That's what you have to do.
[00:22:16] And you have to make this realistic.
[00:22:18] It's got to be surprising.
[00:22:19] It's all the things I talk about all the time.
[00:22:20] It's got to be surprising.
[00:22:21] It's got to be unknowns.
[00:22:22] You've got to do things that people aren't expecting.
[00:22:24] That's what you have to do.
[00:22:25] So that they can develop their instincts.
[00:22:28] So they can develop their intuition.
[00:22:30] Because if you're inexperienced and you don't know what you're doing,
[00:22:33] and you just decide you're going to follow your instinct,
[00:22:35] your instinct can be wrong.
[00:22:37] It can be wrong.
[00:22:38] And the lead, it's like, you did too.
[00:22:40] Right?
[00:22:41] You take a new person in GJ2.
[00:22:43] Their instincts are going to be wrong.
[00:22:45] Period.
[00:22:45] You tend to story.
[00:22:46] Right?
[00:22:46] I mean, the classic is someone is mounted on you.
[00:22:48] Then they do one or two things.
[00:22:50] You try and push them off of you.
[00:22:52] You're getting on a block.
[00:22:53] Or you turn around.
[00:22:55] You turn over and they're choking you.
[00:22:57] But each one of your instincts is wrong.
[00:22:59] Your instinct needs to be elbow escape or, you know,
[00:23:03] um, bus escape.
[00:23:04] Got to be one of those two things.
[00:23:06] But those instincts only come from training.
[00:23:08] It's the same thing with these combat scenarios.
[00:23:10] How you can't just try.
[00:23:11] Don't just trust your instinct, doesn't matter.
[00:23:13] Yeah.
[00:23:14] Make sure you've trained yourself.
[00:23:16] Make sure you've prepared yourself.
[00:23:19] And then make sure that you did touch.
[00:23:22] Because that's another thing that can screw up your instincts.
[00:23:25] Is your instincts, your feeling pain, you know,
[00:23:28] I was rolling the Andy yesterday.
[00:23:30] He will put like pain on me.
[00:23:33] He'll put his elbow in my ear or something.
[00:23:35] And all he's trying to do is get me to make the instinctual move.
[00:23:39] Yeah.
[00:23:40] Of, I'm going to greet you up and pull his hand away.
[00:23:42] If I do that, I'm getting arm locked.
[00:23:44] Right?
[00:23:45] You can't do that.
[00:23:46] Have to just accept the pain.
[00:23:47] Just, just deal with it.
[00:23:48] Go.
[00:23:49] Grind harder.
[00:23:50] And he bring it.
[00:23:51] Here.
[00:23:52] Your instinct if you start taking fire from a certain position,
[00:23:55] that could, your instinct could be, oh, we're going to get down and move over here.
[00:23:58] You got to remember.
[00:23:59] You got to detach enough that you say, oh,
[00:24:02] I need to check my flank.
[00:24:04] I need to see what else is going on here.
[00:24:05] I need to assess these other situations that might be unfolding.
[00:24:08] Yeah.
[00:24:09] And that's where that kind of experience.
[00:24:11] Well, I'm training a coming in and a lot of it can be things that aren't really conscious too.
[00:24:18] And it comes with, like, let's say, you know, in a relationship situation.
[00:24:22] Let's say, I know.
[00:24:23] You sit over here trying to talk about what?
[00:24:25] You want to go straight to a relationship?
[00:24:27] This early in the show.
[00:24:28] I do.
[00:24:29] Like, that even necessarily saying, you know, romantic or boyfriend or friend,
[00:24:32] any kind of relationship, if you know the person really well,
[00:24:35] you can tell on something's off just a little bit.
[00:24:38] People say, hey, something, buddy, they guy would be like, oh, no, no, all good.
[00:24:40] And they can, you know, they can be real convincing.
[00:24:43] Yeah, I know.
[00:24:44] I'm all good.
[00:24:45] But you know, your instinct because you have so much experience with them, you know?
[00:24:47] Yes, you're right.
[00:24:48] And you're right.
[00:24:49] And the fact that, you know, when I talk about the escalation, right, if you come in and you say,
[00:24:54] hey, juggle, this is crap with the way we're doing this.
[00:24:57] If my instinct is like, no, it's not crap.
[00:25:00] That's my instinct if it was small.
[00:25:01] It's like, no, screw you.
[00:25:02] I'm right.
[00:25:03] You're wrong.
[00:25:04] But what I really need to do is say, hold on a second.
[00:25:07] Detach.
[00:25:08] Let's assess what echo say or echo normally doesn't do this.
[00:25:10] Right.
[00:25:11] Why is he doing this?
[00:25:12] Something is going on.
[00:25:13] Don't I'm not going to touch my instinct, right?
[00:25:15] Now luckily, like you said, through training, through knowledge, right, in the situation,
[00:25:19] I know that you don't act that way.
[00:25:21] So yes, follow your instincts, follow your intuition, but make sure that you train to develop
[00:25:27] them and also, I like to question them.
[00:25:30] When I feel something, I just don't go with it immediately.
[00:25:33] I want to go with it.
[00:25:34] And I most likely will go with it.
[00:25:36] But there's also a possibility I say, well, not a possibility.
[00:25:39] But when I say, hey, we need to move here.
[00:25:41] I go, okay, what could be happening?
[00:25:43] Is this a position that the enemy might be in?
[00:25:45] Is this a move that could be getting set up on me?
[00:25:48] No, I think I'm pretty solid or at least as I move them,
[00:25:51] I'm going to be aware of it.
[00:25:52] I'm trusting my instinct, but I'm being cautious.
[00:25:55] Yeah.
[00:25:56] Yes, good.
[00:25:57] You hear that talking police, you know, like cops have like good in, in the first.
[00:26:01] Oh, for sure.
[00:26:02] Because like the repetitious patterns.
[00:26:04] First of bad guys.
[00:26:05] Yeah, for sure.
[00:26:06] I was going to say something else too.
[00:26:08] Oh, there's plenty of times.
[00:26:11] Where if you don't trust your instinct, you will get crushed.
[00:26:15] Right?
[00:26:16] I mean, you think about in a jiu-jitsu perspective.
[00:26:19] But when you get good, you're not thinking about anything.
[00:26:22] You have to just use your instinct.
[00:26:24] You're training.
[00:26:25] Your muscle memory is what's working.
[00:26:27] And the same thing with police, you know, they get to a point.
[00:26:29] You get into a situation.
[00:26:31] If they're not going off their instinct, they're going to get burned.
[00:26:35] Yeah, because they learned.
[00:26:37] Yeah, and that's the trained instinct.
[00:26:39] You're saying like that's the trained instinct.
[00:26:41] Right.
[00:26:41] You know, as opposed to the untrained instinct, yes, you can kind of get.
[00:26:43] They won being a police officer out on the beat.
[00:26:46] They're not going to have, they're not going to have any, a fraction of what you do with that cop 10 years later.
[00:26:51] And you, and that cop's like, hey, listen, I see your hand.
[00:26:55] I see you got some blood on your knuckles.
[00:26:57] I know what happened.
[00:26:58] You're telling me what's going on.
[00:26:59] You don't even mean?
[00:27:00] Yeah.
[00:27:00] Whereas a young guy might be a little too old.
[00:27:02] Yeah.
[00:27:03] Yeah.
[00:27:03] Can you face about something?
[00:27:04] Yeah, or guys like being too nice.
[00:27:06] You know how like the cop can tell like, oh, this guy's being too nice.
[00:27:08] Yeah.
[00:27:09] You know what I mean?
[00:27:10] There's like a mediocre level of niceness that's like, okay, that seems like he's melal, but if
[00:27:15] you guys mean like too aggressive or too defensive or too nice, they can tell.
[00:27:19] Yeah.
[00:27:20] You know, there's something up suspicious, you know, maybe a new guy might be not be able to tell that.
[00:27:23] You know what I mean?
[00:27:24] Yeah.
[00:27:25] No, absolutely.
[00:27:26] All right.
[00:27:27] Next one.
[00:27:28] Number five.
[00:27:30] Use standard unit fire and battle drills.
[00:27:35] Aim to overwhelm the enemy upon contact and retain the initiative through speed of action.
[00:27:41] As Sergeant Koch fired the main gun and destroyed the first tank, I sent a contact report
[00:27:47] to the troop.
[00:27:48] This is Black 6.
[00:27:50] Contact East.
[00:27:51] Eight armored vehicles.
[00:27:52] Green and white.
[00:27:53] You with me?
[00:27:54] Sergeant Koch destroyed two more tanks as our tank platoon to accelerate movement.
[00:27:59] All nine tanks began engaging together as we advanced.
[00:28:03] Approximately one minute.
[00:28:06] Everything in the range of our guns was in flames.
[00:28:09] Fire distribution and control allowed us to destroy a much larger enemy force in a very short
[00:28:16] period of time.
[00:28:19] So how do they do that?
[00:28:21] Good solid discipline standard operating procedures.
[00:28:25] And you, I'm telling you, you think about how simple this is.
[00:28:29] He says this is Black says contact East eight armored vehicles.
[00:28:33] Green, why are you with me?
[00:28:35] That's the whole.
[00:28:37] That's the whole detail plan.
[00:28:39] Hey, there's bad guys over there.
[00:28:41] We're moving east.
[00:28:42] Let's go.
[00:28:43] And everybody says, all right, we've done this thousands of times.
[00:28:47] We've drilled it.
[00:28:48] We rehearsed it.
[00:28:49] What do we do right now?
[00:28:50] And they probably had little standard operating procedures.
[00:28:53] Hey, guys on the, you know, on the left flank are going to start flying at the left
[00:28:56] vehicles.
[00:28:57] They, they handle all these procedures work out so that in less than a minute,
[00:29:01] victory, less than a minute.
[00:29:04] So develop those good standard operating procedures,
[00:29:08] disciplined procedures.
[00:29:10] And when I talk about freedom on the battlefield, this is exactly what I'm talking about.
[00:29:14] Discipline equals freedom on the battlefield.
[00:29:16] Because when you have those disciplined procedures, he doesn't even have to see it.
[00:29:19] The freedom to maneuver.
[00:29:20] He has the freedom just to say, hey, guys, there's the enemy.
[00:29:22] Let's take care of him.
[00:29:23] Boom, it's done.
[00:29:24] Yeah. Next one.
[00:29:28] Number six, foster initiative.
[00:29:32] Every trooper understood how our platoons and the troop conducted fire in maneuver.
[00:29:38] Our tank driver, specialist,
[00:29:41] Christopher Heedensog, knew that he had to steer a path that permitted both tank platoons to get their guns into the fight.
[00:29:49] He turned 45 degrees to the right and kept our frontal armor towards the first enemy tanks we engaged.
[00:29:55] He drove through a minefield, avoided the anti-tank mines reporting on the intercom.
[00:29:59] Sir, I need you to know we just went through a minefield.
[00:30:03] He knew that it would be dangerous to stop right in the middle of the enemy kill zone.
[00:30:07] Heedensog saw that our tank platoons had a window of opportunity to shock the enemy and take advantage of the first blows that Sergeant Cots delivered.
[00:30:16] So, clearly this is decentralized command, right?
[00:30:20] And you just think about this first.
[00:30:22] Every trooper understood how our platoons and the troop conducted fire maneuver.
[00:30:26] Everybody knows what to do.
[00:30:28] Everybody.
[00:30:30] And here's this kid.
[00:30:32] He's probably 18 years old.
[00:30:34] What is he a specialist?
[00:30:35] Yeah, especially.
[00:30:36] He's probably 19 years old.
[00:30:37] And he's got eating.
[00:30:38] Right?
[00:30:39] The commanders in charge, but there's a guy that's driving that's picking the course where they're going to go.
[00:30:44] And again, think about this.
[00:30:46] The captain, he's not saying like, eight, six degrees left, six degrees to the right.
[00:30:50] Get 40, no, he's not giving any of those orders.
[00:30:53] And if you think about it, could he have been able to do that?
[00:30:56] He's dealing with all this other stuff.
[00:30:57] He's dealing with fire control.
[00:30:58] He's dealing with the position he's reporting back up.
[00:31:01] The cheese got all this other stuff going on.
[00:31:02] He doesn't have time to tell this guy where to go, but it's decentralized command.
[00:31:07] That specialist that is leading the tanks from an actual driving perspective.
[00:31:13] He knows what to do.
[00:31:16] He knows the procedures.
[00:31:18] And so he's able just to do it.
[00:31:20] He even knows he knows it so well that when he sees that we're in a mine field, he assesses the threat.
[00:31:26] Okay, we're in a mine field by C3 mines.
[00:31:28] I'm going to steer around them the best I can.
[00:31:30] But if we stop, we're going to be open to getting attacked by the enemy.
[00:31:35] So you know where to do, we're going to keep moving.
[00:31:37] And he made that decision on his own.
[00:31:39] Because he understood the overall objective and the procedures that they would follow.
[00:31:44] And what was most important.
[00:31:46] So that's a great example of decentralized command.
[00:31:51] Number seven.
[00:31:54] Use tanks to take the brunt of the battle.
[00:31:57] Tanks drove around the anti tank mines and Bradley's and other vehicles followed in their tracks.
[00:32:08] Our squadrons S3 tank commanded by major Douglas MacArthur, McGregor, hit an anti tank mine.
[00:32:16] But the blast damage the tank only slightly.
[00:32:19] It continued the attack and made a repair when we halted.
[00:32:22] We ran over anti personnel mines, but they sounded like microwave popcorn popping and had no effect on armored vehicles.
[00:32:30] The rate of our fire of our tanks allowed enemy tanks to fire only two airant main gun rounds at the outside of the battle.
[00:32:41] And two later as the troop assaulted.
[00:32:44] And we machine gun fire had no effect on the troop's advance.
[00:32:48] The psychological shock of our tanks advancing undontered toward their defensive positions paralyzed and panicked the enemy.
[00:32:57] So if you don't know anything about what I'm talking about, I apologize.
[00:33:05] But tanks are massive, A1 Abrams tanks are massive and they have extremely heavy armor.
[00:33:11] They're 68 tons and as you say in here, these even the anti tank mines aren't stopping the tanks.
[00:33:20] And the anti personnel just is nothing.
[00:33:25] But the Bradley's are smaller, not as big and not as big and not as heavily armored.
[00:33:30] So the tanks are driving and then the Bradley's are just falling into tracks in case they hit any mines.
[00:33:38] They would hit the Abrams tank.
[00:33:41] But what I want to say, what I take about is, how can we apply this to everyday life?
[00:33:46] How can we apply this to business?
[00:33:48] You know, they're saying technically specifically use tanks to take the run of the battle, right?
[00:33:53] This is the way I look at this.
[00:33:55] From a business perspective and from a life perspective, play to your strength.
[00:34:04] Right? What is the strongest thing they've got are these tanks?
[00:34:07] And it's the same thing that we run into in business and it's the same thing you run into in life and you get to everywhere.
[00:34:13] What are you, what are you strong at? What are your strong air is that's what you focus on.
[00:34:18] That's what you use to lead your advance.
[00:34:21] Now, do we train for our weaknesses? Absolutely.
[00:34:25] You know, we do that all the time. Do we, when we have a weakness in a business, we don't go, hey, let's just cover this up.
[00:34:30] No, we focus on it so that we can prove it.
[00:34:34] But if we're going to go to market with something, let's go to market with something that we're good at.
[00:34:39] Mm-hmm. Right? If we're going to, if we're going to try and set up some expansion into a new area,
[00:34:46] let's set up the expansion into an area area that we're familiar with. That we're good at. That we're strong in.
[00:34:52] Let's not say, hey, you know what, we've been making, we've been making cars for the last 50 years.
[00:34:58] Let's go over here and make computers. No, we're going to make cars. Okay, let's make trucks too.
[00:35:03] We know how to build vehicles. That's what I'm saying.
[00:35:06] And this is, and you see this all the time with GJ, what do GJ2 guys do? What they should do, which is try and try and play to your strengths.
[00:35:15] Right? In competition. Right? Of course, when we're training, we pray to our weaknesses.
[00:35:22] Right? We want to, oh, I'm, I don't like people being across side. Cool. Let them get across side.
[00:35:27] Yeah. I don't like being on the bottom. Cool. I'm going to be on the bottom.
[00:35:31] But in competition, what are you good at? How do you get the person to play your game? That's the question.
[00:35:36] Yeah, and that's everything, too. Right? Like even at work. You're going to train the new guys,
[00:35:41] but you're not going to send the new guy to make contact with the potential client. The big client.
[00:35:47] Yeah. Don't send the new guy, send the strongest. And the tank. Send the M1 Abrac to meet the new client.
[00:35:53] That's got big potential. So play to your strengths. Use tanks to take the brunt of the battle.
[00:36:00] Next, be prepared for misfires and degraded operations.
[00:36:07] Lieutenant Jeff Disafontos, tank crew came around the village, destroyed an enemy tank,
[00:36:14] and acquired a second tank at very close range that was traversing on them.
[00:36:19] Around got stuck in the breach of the cannon, meaning this, this cannon's not going to shoot anymore.
[00:36:26] The loader grabbed hold of the loader's hatch, kicked around in.
[00:36:30] The breach came up in the gunner, Sergeant Matthew Clark destroyed the T72.
[00:36:35] In another example, Staff Sergeant Digby ordered private first class Charles Burtubin to reload tow missiles.
[00:36:44] Burtubin could not get the cargo hatch open, however.
[00:36:49] When the lightweight wrestler, got his wrestler, good for him.
[00:36:53] Kick the hatch release, he sheared it off. Rather than tell Bradley,
[00:36:57] his Bradley commander that he could not get the tows reloaded. He jumped out of the back door while the vehicle
[00:37:02] was under small arms and machine gun fire. He climbed onto the back of the Bradley loaded both missiles,
[00:37:07] then tapped the Bradley commander on the shoulder while yelling tows are up.
[00:37:11] Staff Sergeant Digby nearly jumped out of his skin because he thought and I racked,
[00:37:15] climbed onto the Bradley.
[00:37:17] So here's these little malfunctions going on with your weapons and what do you do?
[00:37:23] You deal with it. And I think I said this on the last podcast with Lave.
[00:37:29] We have a little saying nothing works. Everything sucks.
[00:37:34] That's what you got to prepare for. You count if you rely a hundred percent on those radios,
[00:37:38] those radios aren't going to work. If you rely a hundred percent on your weapon,
[00:37:41] okay, you better learn those drills, you better learn how to how to fix and adjust your weapon very quickly,
[00:37:48] go to your secondary, whatever the case may be, you've got to drill those things.
[00:37:51] You've got to be ready for problems. You got to be ready for Murphy's Law to kick in.
[00:37:57] Next, number nine.
[00:38:00] Coordinate between Patoons and Ensure Mutual Support.
[00:38:05] The Burning Tanks and Personnel carriers of the enemies first defensive line formed a curtain of smoke
[00:38:11] that concealed enemy further to the east.
[00:38:14] As our tanks assaulted through the smoke, we saw other enemy armor vehicles and large numbers of infantry
[00:38:19] running to get back to subsequent trench lines and positions.
[00:38:23] We destroyed the enemy armor vehicles quickly and shot the infantry with machine guns
[00:38:28] as we close the distance with them.
[00:38:30] Pockets of enemy soldiers threw up their arms. Our soldiers were disciplined.
[00:38:35] Turrets turned away from any enemy soldier with his hands raised.
[00:38:40] Tanked platoon leaders asked to scout platoon to pick up observation of the enemy infantry
[00:38:47] as their Bradley's came through the smoke.
[00:38:49] The scout saw that the enemy had used a false surrender to gain a better position.
[00:38:55] Enemy soldiers were reshulding their rifles and rocket-papeled grenades.
[00:39:00] Our Bradley surprised the enemy and killed them before they could engage our tanks effectively.
[00:39:07] Covern move.
[00:39:09] Covern move real simple.
[00:39:12] That's what that one is.
[00:39:14] Mutually supporting. That means we're helping each other out. That's what cover move is.
[00:39:18] Next. Number 10.
[00:39:23] Take risk to win.
[00:39:26] Because eagle true pressed the assault, the enemy could not respond effectively.
[00:39:33] Right. That's that. You're going to find that. In any case, you want to get the person on their heels.
[00:39:38] You want to get your opponent on their heels.
[00:39:40] As we cleared the Western most defensive positions, our executive officer,
[00:39:45] Lieutenant John Gifford broken on the radio.
[00:39:48] I know you don't want to know this right now, but you are at the limit of advance.
[00:39:53] You are at the 70 East. I responded. Tell them we can't stop.
[00:39:57] Tell them we're in a contact and we have to continue this attack. Tell them I'm sorry.
[00:40:01] That's a part I already covered. We had surprised and shocked the enemy.
[00:40:07] Stopping would have allowed them to recover as early in Rommel observed in infantry attacks.
[00:40:15] The man who lies low and awaits developments usually comes off second best.
[00:40:21] It is fundamentally wrong to halt or to wait for more forces to come up and take part in the action.
[00:40:31] Eagle troop continued to attack toward another very subtle ridge line on the enemy position.
[00:40:38] On which the enemy position his reserve a coil of 18 T72 tanks.
[00:40:44] Major Muhammad later told one of our troopers. This is the enemy commander of this unit.
[00:40:49] Major Muhammad later told one of our troopers that he had not known.
[00:40:53] He was under attack until a soldier ran into his elaborate command bunker yelling tanks tanks.
[00:40:59] By the time he got to his observation post all the vehicles in defense of positions to the west were in flames.
[00:41:06] He ordered the reserve behind him to establish a second defense of line.
[00:41:11] It was too late. The Eagle troops tank, crested the rise and entered their assembly area.
[00:41:18] The tanks were starting to move out when we destroyed them at close range.
[00:41:25] So it's not only take risk it's to be aggressive. That's got to be your default mode.
[00:41:31] Default mode is aggressive. Press that attack.
[00:41:34] It's interesting when I'm clearly at happens in combat you start getting the upper hand keep going.
[00:41:41] Keep going and it happens in Gitu as well.
[00:41:45] You know if you can get that person on the run you're attacking him with two three four different things at the same time.
[00:41:50] That's when they're done.
[00:41:52] You're a bad feeling when you're when that's happening to you. You fall in behind in the Udloup.
[00:41:56] And they're just getting getting all inside your loop. You're defending something.
[00:42:00] You feel the other thing happening.
[00:42:02] Yeah.
[00:42:03] Not good.
[00:42:04] But again take risk but yes be aggressive.
[00:42:08] Now those word v lessons from this this one battle.
[00:42:15] You know this one battle at 73 East and now.
[00:42:20] Obviously McMaster said in the army he went up through the chain of command.
[00:42:25] And now we're going to go to 2005 2006 the battle of Tallah Far.
[00:42:32] You know I rack which this battle was led by who is now a Colonel McMaster.
[00:42:39] He was a captain at the time of this 73 East and battle.
[00:42:42] Now he's a commander. He's commanding the third ACR the third Armored Cavalry Regiment.
[00:42:48] And this is very similar to the battle of Ramadi. What happened in Tallah Far.
[00:42:56] And the reason one of the reasons why it's so similar is that Colonel McFarland,
[00:43:02] who was the commander of the one one AD that led the fight in Ramadi that I was there to support.
[00:43:10] The first thing he did when he went back to Iraq when McFarland went back to Iraq for that deployment in 2006.
[00:43:17] He took over for McMaster and McMaster was in Tallah Far.
[00:43:22] So McFarland shows up in Tallah Far and says hey this is what I did.
[00:43:27] I did a little something called Seas Clear Hold and built.
[00:43:30] This is the strategy we pushed into these end-making control territories.
[00:43:33] And then it becomes so pacified in Tallah Far that they were able to take most of the one one AD and send them down to Ramadi.
[00:43:45] And when they got down to Ramadi McFarland, who's a brilliant guy, had listened to everything McMaster said,
[00:43:51] looked at how he did it and then applied the same strategy in Ramadi.
[00:43:56] Now he had to make adjustments to it for sure because it wasn't exactly the same.
[00:43:59] But luckily he used a smart creative guy that said oh we got to make adjustments but he did it.
[00:44:03] But the overall concept came from what McMaster did up in Tallah Far.
[00:44:12] And so there was an article in the New Yorker written by a guy named George Packer and the article is called The Lesson of Tallah Far.
[00:44:23] Is it too late for the administration to correct its course in Iraq?
[00:44:29] And this article came out April 10th 2006 probably three or four days before I arrived in Ramadi in 2006.
[00:44:39] So that's when this article came out and you can see he's saying hey look is it too late to correct the course?
[00:44:46] Well actually a lot of people in 2006 weren't even admitting that we were all in the wrong course.
[00:44:53] You know because what we were doing at that time and I've talked about this a bunch.
[00:44:57] What America had been doing at that time is going out grabbing bad guys.
[00:45:04] I wanted a time to have been bringing them back to base and putting them arresting them capture kill missions.
[00:45:10] And what's interesting is that's that's an attrition that's a war of attrition right you have certain number of bad guys we're going to go catch them all.
[00:45:21] And it really wasn't working.
[00:45:24] It really wasn't working that's why in 2005 2006 enemy attacks were up 300% and you know 2005 2006 are whole country.
[00:45:33] Well I shouldn't say our whole country but many people in our country including a lot of major politicians were saying it was unwinnable and you know we just need to get out and it was cragmiron all that stuff.
[00:45:43] So that's because we were not on the right strategy and actually if you take this and you apply it back to Hackworth when he basically said during the end of the Vietnam War and he said look we're not going to win.
[00:45:59] It wasn't talking about we couldn't win. He was saying we're fighting the wrong kind of tactics we're doing the wrong thing here. You keep saying hey what's our body count what's our body count that's a war of attrition.
[00:46:10] Hey we lost as many guys you lost that many that's an attrition warfare it's one or one I always use World War One is the classic attrition warfare hey we're going to go over the trench we're going to kill as many of you is you can and hopefully it's less than we'll ask them we're going to see you can last longer that's a punch that's that's hey echo we're just going to stand here you punch me all punch you you punch me and whoever goes down.
[00:46:28] You know loses well guess what what we look like at the end of that we're all beat up right both of us doesn't matter doesn't matter how good we are.
[00:46:36] So these guys were thinking maybe instead of doing punches the face we should do little jjitsu a little something a little bit more tactically sound and it wasn't.
[00:46:47] Just go out grab bad guys just go out and try and kill bad guys because we learned 2003 2004 2005 that's three years of doing those type of operations and real progress wasn't being made it certainly wasn't made in in
[00:47:01] Remodiate this point again there was guys that were doing incredible work and you do have to go out and and attack the bad guys and go after those critical notes for sure.
[00:47:16] And politically other other areas that needed to be addressed. So this article came out and again it's from the New Yorker written by George Packer came out April 10 2006 and here we're going to this article back to the article.
[00:47:35] This is the McMaster and his soldiers applied in Tallahafar were learned during the first two years of an increase in the unpopular war. When we came to Iraq we didn't understand the complexity.
[00:47:46] What it meant for a society to live under brutal dictatorship with ethnic and sectarian divisions.
[00:47:53] He said in his course energetic voice when we first got here we made a lot of mistakes. We were like a blind man trying to do the right thing but breaking a lot of things.
[00:48:06] Later he said you got to come in with your ears open you can't come in and start talking you really have to listen to people.
[00:48:16] I mean okay that is just this whole thing is just a great summary of a humble man right he's saying look when we came here we didn't understand the complexity.
[00:48:29] That's humility he says we didn't understand what it was like to live under brutal dictatorship that's humble he says when we first got here we made a lot of mistakes.
[00:48:39] He's not saying all we did everything right no we made a lot of mistakes. We were like a blind man trying to do the right thing but breaking a lot of things so they're trying.
[00:48:48] He admits that we're trying but we're breaking a lot of stuff later he said.
[00:48:53] Listen this you got to come in with your ears open you can't come in and start talking okay leaders around the world pay attention to that right there you don't need to come in and start talking.
[00:49:06] Come in with your ears open and listen and he says you really have to listen to people.
[00:49:14] Very clear very great leadership guidance right there.
[00:49:18] Back to the article. They didn't even want to say the I word one officer told me it was the specter of Vietnam they did not want to say the insurgency word because the next word you say is quagmire.
[00:49:34] The next thing you say is the only war America has lost Vietnam.
[00:49:40] And the next thing you conclude is that certain people's vision of war is wrong so.
[00:49:49] We had a hard time again just as America.
[00:49:53] Admitting hey this isn't just a bunch of thugs running around there's an organized insurgency here we needed fight it like an insurgency we had a hard time making that mental transition as a nation.
[00:50:03] And I'll tell you when I I've told the story before when I got to Ramadi and I looked it was going on I literally read the counter insurgency manual that was written by basically by general portrays who's a brilliant guy and these guys McMaster.
[00:50:18] I think McFarlane they all helped him write that article.
[00:50:22] I write that book so this was a totally different attitude and you know you hear it here that people people back in DC they didn't even want to use the word insurgency they didn't want to use that word because it makes everyone think of nom.
[00:50:39] And we lost right.
[00:50:44] So the article going going a little bit deeper on that. Back to the article the Pentagon strategy in 2003 and 2004 was to capture was to combat the insurgency simply by eliminating insurgence and approach called.
[00:51:00] Kill capture.
[00:51:02] Colleve, SEP, a retired special forces officer who now teaches at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California set of the method it's all about hunting people.
[00:51:13] I think it comes directly from the secretary defense I want heads on a plate so he's talking about wrongs.
[00:51:20] You'll get some people that way, but the failure of that approach is evident. They get who's saying they get his sons they continue to work every week to kill more capture more.
[00:51:33] They've got facilities full of thousands of detainees yet there's more insurgence than there were when we started.
[00:51:41] In dereliction of duty McMaster wrote that strategy of attrition was in essence the absence of a strategy.
[00:51:52] What a great line that is right.
[00:51:55] And so McMaster wrote a very harsh critique of the Vietnam War and the way it was run again not not a critique of the boots on the ground and the troops that fought but a critique of those back in DC that were running it.
[00:52:09] And you know this is just this is just an incredible statement that a war of attrition is in essence the absence of strategy.
[00:52:19] This is like okay what do you do we're new it's gonna go kill as many of us and we can.
[00:52:24] Okay that's if that's your strategy not a strategy it's like when you get near an MMA fight what your strategy the guy goes.
[00:52:31] I'm gonna punch him in the face until I win right that's not a strategy put my head down and start to find a good strategy don't don't do that you need to have a little bit more strategy than that.
[00:52:42] Yeah.
[00:52:45] Back to the article if we're not stupid and we don't quit we can win this thing and again what's important is 2006 this this major McCoffland McCoffland he's another person that's interviewed in this article.
[00:52:59] He's talking about like we could lose this thing right so if we're not stupid and we don't quit we can win this thing major major McCoffland said history teaches you that war.
[00:53:10] At its heart is a human endeavor and if you ignore the human side yours the enemies and the civilians you set yourself up for failure it's not about weapons it's about people.
[00:53:28] That's very it's very true and I'll tell you where it's true it's true in war clearly and it's true in business too and you get people that don't understand the human side of business.
[00:53:48] They don't understand that they're dealing with human beings and they treat people like numbers they're not going to be successful now.
[00:53:59] You also get people that goes so far in in the other direction that all they care about is their people and guess what now they're making bad business decisions and they're hiring more people and they're keeping them they're not letting anyone go and they're running themselves in the ground because they're overhead too much and they cause destruction.
[00:54:08] On the other side you've got someone that's a up now being counter right no you let that person go no severance or whatever limit you do that methodology you're going to end up with no business either because they people because they're people.
[00:54:22] If you treat them like robots you're they're not going to work for you they're going to they're going to rebel against you the robot will do with the robot is told but people on robots.
[00:54:32] So you got to remember that human side and obviously in war and that's that's one of the reasons that we're able if we're able to talk about this stuff to businesses we're able to talk about combat leadership to businesses.
[00:54:46] The first often times the first thing that the business that's bringing us on has to get a grip on is the fact that. We were in charge of people not terminator robots right we laughing I use that term all time the people think oh you're in the military you run a Navy seals they do whatever you know no not true there people.
[00:55:09] And guess what the enemy are people they have thoughts they have passions they have desires and guess what the civilian populace that you're working amongst those are human beings too.
[00:55:24] And they're not just going to listen to what you say and you can't just for instance can't just throw money out right you can't just throw money out of they don't care about that money.
[00:55:39] News of a guy going into he was a I don't remember the reporters name but he's a young reporter spoke Arabic and he goes into Ramadi while it was surrounded by ISIS.
[00:55:52] And he's talking to just normal people and he's talking to this one guy and he says you know the guy saying look we really need help we hope America comes back.
[00:56:10] I live here I'm not going anywhere that's a human right that's a human that's a sentimental value it's like my house that I live in you're not going to take my house for me like if you if people came to try and take my house away from me.
[00:56:25] There'd be a fight and it wouldn't end well for anybody that's sentimental right so you have to remember that these human beings are human beings and that's that one of the key things that.
[00:56:41] And that McMaster really McMaster really understood really understood this fact and and you know I'm giving a lot of credit to McMaster but there's a lot I mean there's way more guys that I'm talking about than I don't have them not going through their names but there's a lot of guys that contributed to this idea and didn't outstanding job.
[00:57:04] He's getting the credit because he's got in charge right I'm giving him some credit because he's the guy in charge but I guarantee if you asked him he'd say well no I had this happened to this and I had this major that did that and he had all these people but he's the guy just like if something's gone wrong he'd be responsible some stuff went right so you get the credit there general.
[00:57:23] Now he wrote these. These four fallacies of warfare which I find very very interesting.
[00:57:34] And so we learned kind of the tactical side of what he learned from his battle 73 things.
[00:57:41] You know he had 10 lessons learned pretty tactical stuff right now we're getting into a little bit more strategic level or talking about.
[00:57:53] And so here's what he says about these four fallacies of war warfare there are four fallacies about future war that are preventing us from learning from our most recent experiences McMaster said.
[00:58:21] In the nature of war.
[00:58:25] Okay so he's saying look the way they portray these things is it makes everything good for America but they actually make things worse for America.
[00:58:33] Because they ignore things in war that are always the same.
[00:58:39] This is war we're talking about the nature of war does not change.
[00:58:44] This first fallacy the vampire fallacy. It's a vampire fallacy. It's a vampire because you can't kill it and it comes back every 10 years.
[00:58:57] This is the belief that a narrow range of technological capabilities will deliver fast, cheap and efficient victory in future war.
[00:59:07] The latest manifestation is the belief in a new range of technological capabilities everything from big data analytics to artificial intelligence to drones and robotics and so forth.
[00:59:19] So so what does that mean we have an idea that we can as a nation just we were so so technologically advanced that nothing can stand up to us and we can just use these precision weapons to take out enemy targets.
[00:59:34] And then it's over. It's a fallacy it's a vampire it's going to come back you can't just kill it it's going to come back.
[00:59:43] And you know obviously we've seen we saw that in Iraq we had all kinds of technological advances over the enemy but they continue to come back and when we walked away they came back strong they were called ISIS.
[00:59:59] Now I think that's pretty self evident what that means now what does this mean in business and in life well to me.
[01:00:08] What this means is there's no easy solution there's no easy solution to things right we look at something we go oh we can just do this.
[01:00:21] We can just use some certain new technology or we can just use some app right oh if I get an app to track my diet then I'll be good to go no.
[01:00:35] Got to stop putting the sugar in your mouth to be good to go. People want the shortcut. They want to they think that there's an easy way to get things done and there's not you have to do the work there's a vampire out there.
[01:00:56] What you got to do is you got to grab that vampire you got to cut it's head off you got to soak it in holy water and then you got to dry it's bones out in the sun that's what kills a vampire all right.
[01:01:10] That's the attitude you have to take you can't just think there's going to be a shortcut will be able to lead through this vampire you know tomorrow because I have a cool gun I'm going to shoot him no bullets don't kill him.
[01:01:23] You got to go harder. Yeah I think the correct way to kill a vampire isn't to cut his head off it's the wooden steak into a heart that's I think you might be thinking of my do so or something.
[01:01:36] Okay just kind of FYI but holy water part was correct though yeah just just so FYI I don't mean to call you out here.
[01:01:45] Actually googled how to kill a vampire. That's wrong though mythologies says otherwise he stick a wooden steak in his heart. Crucifix will get him if you have faith sunlight will kill him so that was correct.
[01:01:59] Holy water holy water will get a vermitor yeah and yeah and yeah I don't know what website said cut his head off.
[01:02:08] Oh don't trust Google less and learn to see you know what I did right there took a shortcut. Oh yeah I took I thought it was a vampire just googled real quick. Right go.
[01:02:17] You know what you did this is what this is my what I think you did I think you googled it which is fine, but here's the thing about googling something googling is not the answer.
[01:02:24] It's what you find from Google and if you just go for the first one or the one that looks like you see the iron here. I tried to take a shortcut and I'm wrong and that's the same. That's the vampire fallacy in it.
[01:02:37] In right. Yeah.
[01:02:39] Yeah.
[01:02:40] All right next. The zero dark 30 fallacy. That's the name of a movie about the the killing of bin Laden.
[01:02:52] This is the idea the zero dark 30 fallacy. This is the idea that all you have to gain to do to gain a victory in war is to gain visibility of an enemy's network structure and then conduct raids against that network.
[01:03:09] And then you can see that there are special operations forces or nodes. So the problem with both these fallacies. Of course they represent important capabilities you need to have.
[01:03:22] But these are capabilities that mask a raid as strategies and simple solutions to the complex problem of war neglecting wars political nature neglecting wars human nature neglecting wars inherent uncertainty based on the interactive nature.
[01:03:38] And finally neglecting that it is ultimately a contest of wills.
[01:03:49] So the idea that you can again it's a traditional warfare and I I'll be honest with you. I never really looked at this as a tradition warfare until I was reading research and for this podcast.
[01:04:00] I never I always said hey, you know, it's a raid mentality. Hey, we can just capture all the bad guys, but to say yes, that's a tradition warfare. That's exactly what it is. And especially for me because I look at World War one as so awful and it's an example of a traditional warfare and that's what makes it so bad.
[01:04:18] This is a tradition warfare to hey, we're just going to capture kill all the bad guys. How do you do that? What we're forgetting is what what about this line when you do that when you just say, look all we need to do is capture kill the bad guys. This is what you do.
[01:04:31] You mask a raid this that capability to be able to do that, which is an awesome capability, awesome capability, but that mask that capability mask a raids as a strategy and what you listen to things that you forget about this list is classic.
[01:04:46] The complex problem for you neglect war's political nature human nature inherent uncertainty interactive nature and you neglect that's a contest of wheels. So.
[01:05:02] And there's some great YouTube videos where McMaster's talking about that big lesson learning that this raid mentality was it's part of it's part of the way you defeat an uncertainty. Part of the way you defeat an uncertainty is.
[01:05:18] Capture kill in the bad guys. Awesome. But there's so much more you have to address that's like saying hey the way you win a GJ2 is the arm lock the person you can even say as broad as the way you win a GJ2 is to submit somebody.
[01:05:32] Right. So if I taught you every submission I knew, but I didn't teach you how to transition to GJ2 positions you would there's no way you could win. It's the same thing is submission important. Yes, that's what a raid is a raid is the submission. It's one piece of it. It's not the whole game though. It's not the whole game.
[01:05:53] And I think that's what he's making very clear here through that zero dark 30 fallacy. Next one is the wild kingdom fallacy.
[01:06:06] Back when America was wholesome there was no reality TV, no Kardashians or anything. So on Sunday nights American families would watch this wildlife show called mutual of Omaha's wild kingdom.
[01:06:20] And that show what happened on that show is the host Marlon Perkins would send his assistant Jim to conduct exotic and occasionally dangerous fieldwork.
[01:06:33] This is the belief that we could be like Marlon and just get Jim or other militaries to do our fighting for us. And this is a way in the minds of some people to reduce risk. But it actually increases risks because you were relying on other people whose interests are oftentimes in congruent with your own interests.
[01:06:58] And not only don't have the capability to fight and do what you need to do, but oftentimes don't have the will to do it.
[01:07:09] So he's saying this idea that we can just hey we'll just have the Iraqis do it sounds like a good idea right because I don't want my guys to get her killed there's a problem with that.
[01:07:19] The problem is they can't do what we do they can't do it as well as we do it and they probably don't have the will to do it now credit to their acus right now they're moving through Missouil.
[01:07:30] They're getting after it they're heavily backed by American forces, but they're they're taking the lead for sure.
[01:07:36] So but when we were in Ramadi, those guys didn't have the will that we had they didn't mean as much to them if you can believe that I know it sounds crazy. We had a battalion of Iraqi soldiers talking about this with life. We had a battalion of Iraqi soldiers.
[01:07:52] So 500 Iraqi soldiers that it come to Ramadi as to to help out in the fight they left they abandoned they quit a battalion of Iraqi soldiers and here's the weird thing.
[01:08:08] The reason they brought this battalion in one we needed more manpower number two they were Sunni so Ramadi was a Sunni city and bulk of the army at the time with Shia. So the she is coming in and fighting in Ramadi sometimes the Sunni's would say hey what is that and why these she isn't here.
[01:08:27] So the idea was to bring the Sunni's in to help and the Sunni's got scared the Sunni battalion got scared and left and one of the reasons they said well it's in a Sunni city.
[01:08:41] I just said wait wait a second. Wow that's the whole point these are your people these are other Sunni's that are getting murdered by insurgents. So it was just it was a tough situation and my point in saying that and there's a whole there's a whole.
[01:08:59] Another discussion we could have on that but the point is that. In order to win that fight we had to be on the ground the Iraqis were not going to do it by themselves they were not going to and that's what this fallacy is hey that if we just direct other people to do it.
[01:09:19] Then we'll be good to go and we don't have to take any risk now again how does that translate to what we do you know business how does that translate to business how does that translate to life for me it's real simple.
[01:09:34] The important thing that you got to do you got to do the hard things that you got to do you got to do you know it okay Tim Ferriss can we outsource some stuff yes we can don't worry Tim will outsource some stuff but the important stuff you have to do you got to do it.
[01:09:56] You got to do it yourself if it really means something you have to do it you have to have the will and you have to make it happen because if I outsource something to somebody.
[01:10:06] If I say hey I really don't feel like reading this book you know I don't feel like reading this book for the podcast can you read this for me.
[01:10:13] Well yeah somebody's going to read it but they're not going to have my perspective on it and they're just going to give me some notes I'm going to sit here and read them.
[01:10:27] We're not going to get the product that we need because that's important.
[01:10:40] I'm not sure that stuff echo Charles.
[01:10:43] No keep it in house for sure the the congruency of interest you know that's the big one because you can even think that the person has the same interest and really you both can think that but just maybe in a different way.
[01:10:57] I think you can create a like how you present this and what parts you think are important right are going to be slightly different even if the person is the same interest is there it's going to be different.
[01:11:10] Yeah you know I just somebody just wrote because we're doing mousse sashi it's a giant book and someone's highlight massage the other day and kind of took a picture of it and he said you know I wonder how close.
[01:11:25] I'm going to be right on maybe but they might not be yeah and I can't say hey bro send me your book and your notes and then we'll do the podcast and I'm just going to cheat can't do that just like you can't say hey you know what.
[01:11:38] County of them who ever want to come back on stuff she just goes ontime being a missing and so r fact on your hand it won't go back on all of the workups because I'm currently doing it without first play games and just they're going right you're sure theяла bag before the
[01:11:43] account and ready for you and then a ho goofy stuffign
[01:11:44] now today have me
[01:12:02] They thought, man, they lived under Saddam.
[01:12:06] For their whole lives, I mean, all the soldiers that we worked with lived under Saddam, their
[01:12:10] whole lives, that's all they knew.
[01:12:13] So for them, we say, no, you're going to have freedom.
[01:12:15] They're like, oh, yeah, no, what does that even mean?
[01:12:18] What does that mean?
[01:12:19] I don't know what that means.
[01:12:20] We're thinking, hey, don't worry.
[01:12:22] These guys are fighting for their freedom.
[01:12:23] They're going to fight for their SUNY brothers.
[01:12:24] They're going to fight for their Iraq.
[01:12:26] They're kind of like, we don't even know.
[01:12:27] They didn't even really have a good vision of what Iraq is.
[01:12:31] Iraq is a country that we used to be underneath Saddam.
[01:12:34] And now it's not.
[01:12:35] And we don't know what that means.
[01:12:36] We don't know what that looks like.
[01:12:37] We Americans had a vision of what that looked like.
[01:12:39] They didn't have it.
[01:12:40] So how are they going to fight for it?
[01:12:43] To your point, they don't see what we see.
[01:12:45] They have a different opinion.
[01:12:47] So who's got to go on there and who's going to have the will to fight, answer us in that
[01:12:54] particular case.
[01:12:55] And it's the same thing right now, even in Missouri, even in the last time when Ramadi
[01:12:59] was taken back by the Iraqi forces, good on them, props to the Iraqi forces right now.
[01:13:07] They're backed up by Americans.
[01:13:08] Americans are saying, hey, look, this is the vision.
[01:13:11] This is what you're going to do.
[01:13:12] This is how we're going to take this part of it.
[01:13:14] And that is the big difference of why they didn't have the will.
[01:13:17] They didn't understand what they were fighting for.
[01:13:20] And you take anybody and put them in that story.
[01:13:22] And I don't even look at Vietnam War.
[01:13:24] You could have Vietnam War.
[01:13:26] So our American soldiers, some of them, you can go watch interviews.
[01:13:31] They were saying, I don't know what I'm fighting for.
[01:13:33] Hey, they were actually questioned, I don't know what America is like anymore, right?
[01:13:39] Which really read in this book by Jim Thompson, longest held POW ever.
[01:13:47] And when he got back, he was kind of, when he got back to America, he was gone from 1964
[01:13:52] until 1973.
[01:13:56] When he got back, when he left, America was fairly conservative in patriotic.
[01:14:03] When he gets back, people are burning flags, people are protesting.
[01:14:06] He was taken a back by it.
[01:14:08] And so if you took somebody that left for Vietnam in 1970, and America's in turmoil
[01:14:14] and all that, it's hard to have the same vision that they had had in 1964, which is,
[01:14:21] hey, America, we're going to go stop the communist.
[01:14:24] Communist or bad.
[01:14:25] I mean, it's our bad.
[01:14:27] But then you start having the American socialist party that telling you that communist
[01:14:30] are good and all the sudden kids over there going, hey, look, I don't even know what's
[01:14:33] going on.
[01:14:34] But I'm not sure I want to die here in this jungle.
[01:14:36] And that's problematic.
[01:14:37] And it's the same thing with the Iraqi soldiers.
[01:14:40] They just didn't know what they were fighting for.
[01:14:42] If you asked them what they were fighting for, they might say a paycheck.
[01:14:46] Very few of them would say I'm fighting for a free and stable Iraq.
[01:14:51] Yeah.
[01:14:52] Very few of them.
[01:14:53] Some of them fought against truly heartfelt against the insurgents.
[01:14:58] They didn't like the insurgents.
[01:14:59] The insurgents were murdering people and raping women and torturing people.
[01:15:04] They didn't like that.
[01:15:05] They'd fight hard against them.
[01:15:07] But that wasn't not everyone experienced that.
[01:15:09] Not everyone saw that.
[01:15:11] Yeah.
[01:15:12] So, and I'm sure they're kind of like, you can tell them what you're fighting for.
[01:15:17] And they can answer you for sure.
[01:15:19] Yeah.
[01:15:20] It's like, you're dad tells you when you're young.
[01:15:24] You're dad tells you, hey, clean your room.
[01:15:25] I want this room to spit and span.
[01:15:27] Yeah, you don't get it.
[01:15:28] Yeah, I'm going to take this whole mess.
[01:15:31] I'm just going to put in the closet.
[01:15:32] Just so he'll leave me alone kind of thing.
[01:15:35] And then meanwhile, the dad, your dad, has his vision.
[01:15:39] It's like, what's up with you?
[01:15:41] Why don't you clean your room?
[01:15:42] Don't you understand kind of thing?
[01:15:44] Yep.
[01:15:45] No, you don't.
[01:15:46] You don't understand that your dad's trying to teach you the discipline equals freedom.
[01:15:50] So, I kids were running late this morning.
[01:15:52] Going to school.
[01:15:53] Why are they running late?
[01:15:54] Because their rooms are messy.
[01:15:56] Well, you're running late.
[01:15:58] Everything's stressful now when we're heading to school.
[01:16:00] Why is that?
[01:16:01] Well, because your room is messy.
[01:16:03] Lack of discipline.
[01:16:05] Lack of discipline causes mental stress.
[01:16:07] Mental stress is not freedom.
[01:16:09] Yeah.
[01:16:10] But to your point, even trying to explain to the Iraqi soldiers why they're doing what they're
[01:16:14] doing on a really big level like that is difficult.
[01:16:19] Now, occasionally, you get a good leader.
[01:16:20] There was some good host and good leaders.
[01:16:22] There was one of the generals that the Delta Patuon commander worked with.
[01:16:27] He was a good dude.
[01:16:28] He was a good leader.
[01:16:30] And the Delta Patuon commander actually had some really good Iraqi scouts as well.
[01:16:34] That really believed in what they were doing.
[01:16:36] And I know that the reason I'd get for entry to the Delta Patuon commander worked very
[01:16:40] consistently with the same guys, a bunch.
[01:16:42] As life was working with multiple different groups.
[01:16:46] So the Delta Patuon commander had some more tight relationships with some of those guys.
[01:16:52] They've did too.
[01:16:53] But anyways, some of those guys understood what they were fighting for.
[01:16:58] But it's hard to just like you said, explain what freedom is.
[01:17:03] And the other piece of it is in those situations, explaining what freedom is is still
[01:17:09] no guarantee at all.
[01:17:11] That freedom is coming your way.
[01:17:13] These guys have been through so much turmoil.
[01:17:15] That country's been through so much turmoil.
[01:17:16] They're like, hey, you know what?
[01:17:17] We don't even know.
[01:17:18] You can promise us that.
[01:17:20] But doesn't seem like we're doing too well.
[01:17:22] How do we know you're going to win?
[01:17:24] How do we know we're going to win?
[01:17:25] We don't know that.
[01:17:26] So you know what I'm going to do?
[01:17:27] Lay low.
[01:17:28] See where this thing falls.
[01:17:30] And then I'll step up.
[01:17:31] Once I know who's going to win, tough.
[01:17:38] Next, the RSVP fallacy.
[01:17:42] Thank you for the kind invitation to the war, but the United States regrets it
[01:17:46] is unable to attend.
[01:17:48] This is the belief that you can just opt out of war.
[01:17:51] It's a narcissistic approach to war, which we define only war in relation to us and what
[01:17:59] we'd like to do.
[01:18:03] So this idea that you can just be opt out doesn't work.
[01:18:08] The bottom line there is that you got to get in the game.
[01:18:13] The game is going to take place.
[01:18:15] The game is going to happen.
[01:18:17] And you're going to be affected by it.
[01:18:18] That's the key point.
[01:18:19] It's not a game that takes place on a field.
[01:18:21] It's a game that takes place on a field and expands out into the crowd, into the stands,
[01:18:26] into the town, and stuff starts getting burned and riots take place.
[01:18:33] So you have to get in the game.
[01:18:40] That was the fourth fallacy of war now.
[01:18:44] I think that all those really show not just how smart McMaster is, but also how open-minded
[01:18:53] he is, which is a very important quality.
[01:18:56] I also think he's a realist.
[01:18:59] He's a realist and looks at things in a very real way.
[01:19:04] This is what's happening and this is what we need to do with it.
[01:19:07] And also what's great about McMaster is that he's not afraid to speak his mind.
[01:19:13] And he's got trouble for that along the way.
[01:19:16] So I'm definitely looking forward to seeing how McMaster handles all the challenges that
[01:19:28] are ahead of him right now, not only in DC, but in the world.
[01:19:35] So it's going to be an interesting and we wish him, or I certainly wish him, the best
[01:19:41] of luck in that pursuit.
[01:19:46] So lead off with the little McMaster.
[01:19:48] And think about going to a little Q&A at this time.
[01:19:52] Sure.
[01:19:53] It's been a little while since we did Q&A here.
[01:19:56] Yeah.
[01:19:57] I've been doing Facebook Live.
[01:19:59] Yeah.
[01:20:00] And when I've been doing Facebook Live, I'm purposely not preparing at all.
[01:20:08] That's my goal.
[01:20:10] My goal is to not prepare at all.
[01:20:12] Because the second one that I did, I started looking at the questions ahead of time.
[01:20:19] And I was saying, OK, well, may I just take a couple notes here?
[01:20:21] And all of a sudden I started preparing for Facebook Live.
[01:20:24] And then I realized, if I'm going to prepare, I'll make it the podcast.
[01:20:27] So no, don't prepare.
[01:20:30] Facebook Live, ask me your question, and I'll answer it there on the spot.
[01:20:34] It's fun.
[01:20:36] It's different, right?
[01:20:38] It's easier.
[01:20:40] I can't do two podcasts a week because don't have time to prepare for them.
[01:20:46] But can you Facebook Live?
[01:20:47] You can slide that thing in.
[01:20:49] It doesn't prepare for a live thing with the dynamics of Facebook Live.
[01:20:56] It doesn't let defeat the live kind of purpose.
[01:20:58] In a way, it does.
[01:21:00] But we could do this podcast on Facebook Live.
[01:21:03] So we could prepare it.
[01:21:04] And we could put it on Facebook Live.
[01:21:06] We could do that.
[01:21:08] But then it would be a rehash of what we're doing.
[01:21:11] And the other piece of it is, I think the Facebook Live is a way of people seeing a little
[01:21:21] bit more of me as a normal human being.
[01:21:24] And not me as a guy with all the answers on stuff like, no, you asked me a question.
[01:21:30] I don't really know what you know what I mean.
[01:21:33] And also, obviously on this podcast is usually pretty serious.
[01:21:39] And so I'm not like that all the time.
[01:21:42] So maybe they could see.
[01:21:44] Well, I have a serious side, no doubt.
[01:21:46] Sure.
[01:21:47] But I'm not like that all the time.
[01:21:50] So I think Facebook Live is a good way to say.
[01:21:54] Plus, I don't want to answer some questions here for a couple of reasons.
[01:21:59] Number one, man, when somebody listens to the podcast, I want to make sure they're getting
[01:22:03] something of high quality, right?
[01:22:06] Not just some fluff, right?
[01:22:09] We're not doing fluff here.
[01:22:10] If we need to do fluff on the podcast, we just want to do the podcast.
[01:22:14] Because I don't want to, somebody to press play in waste time.
[01:22:18] Oh, yeah.
[01:22:19] You know what I mean?
[01:22:20] Now my fluffing around and talking smack on Facebook Live because that's what it is.
[01:22:27] It's an open forum.
[01:22:28] We're going to have some fun.
[01:22:30] We're going to get after it a little bit.
[01:22:32] But it's not going to be super heavy because if you want that, come here.
[01:22:36] Get your podcast on.
[01:22:38] You know, yes, kind of more lightened up a little bit.
[01:22:41] Yeah, it's not like that's it is not like I said, okay.
[01:22:46] Let's see.
[01:22:47] I need to show them my light side.
[01:22:48] No.
[01:22:49] Five.
[01:22:50] Right.
[01:22:51] It's like when Jody came on, Jody came on, like after we were hanging out for like an
[01:22:56] hour, he's like, yeah, man, we're not just coming down.
[01:22:58] I just thought you were going to be like, full on cycle of all time.
[01:23:00] I was like, yeah, I'm not full on cycle of all time.
[01:23:03] You know, if we're eating a burger, we're good.
[01:23:06] I'm not going to be sitting there while I'm eating a burger saying let me tell you what.
[01:23:11] No, I didn't want to do that when I'm eating a burger.
[01:23:14] Wouldn't enjoy that burger.
[01:23:15] Yeah, make sense.
[01:23:17] But yeah, if it's alive, Q&A, you know how like at like the mustard or you know, when
[01:23:21] you guys, okay, we're going to do some Q&A.
[01:23:24] That's the example of like a live Q&A.
[01:23:26] You don't prepare for those questions.
[01:23:28] No.
[01:23:29] And also what's interesting about those questions is those I've given some, I mean, if you
[01:23:33] think about any of the podcasts that I've gone on, Tim Ferriss, Joe Rogan, Sam Harris,
[01:23:40] those, those guys asked me some heavy questions.
[01:23:43] Right.
[01:23:44] Those guys weren't just asking, we were just BSing.
[01:23:46] Right, during those.
[01:23:47] So there's no guarantee that I'm not going to get get a little bit serious on Facebook
[01:23:54] or live or whatever.
[01:23:55] I'm going to do what people ask me.
[01:23:57] Right.
[01:23:58] Yeah.
[01:23:59] But yeah, during the mustard, we do a lot of Q&A during the mustard.
[01:24:04] We get all kinds of questions.
[01:24:06] There's some really funny questions that require funny responses.
[01:24:09] There's also some some real serious ones that require very serious answers.
[01:24:14] And what's interesting is this happens on Twitter, too?
[01:24:19] Somebody asked me some dead serious question, like a very serious, you know, something
[01:24:24] that's emotional to me like about losing guys or something like that.
[01:24:29] Guys killed in combat and I'll respond to it.
[01:24:32] And then two tweets later, someone says, you know, I'm going to have some mint chocolate
[01:24:37] by his cream tonight.
[01:24:38] You don't even mean into you go through these.
[01:24:40] If someone's read, they must think I'm schizophrenic because I'm answer real serious.
[01:24:44] It's real light and then it's just kind of weird.
[01:24:46] Yeah, the roller coaster man.
[01:24:48] Yeah.
[01:24:49] It's an emotional roller coaster on the Twitter.
[01:24:51] Oh, Lord.
[01:24:52] All right.
[01:24:53] So I'll Q&A.
[01:24:54] Okay.
[01:24:55] Echo Charles.
[01:24:56] Back in the game.
[01:24:57] All right.
[01:24:58] So yeah, first question.
[01:24:59] Jocco and echo.
[01:25:01] Should you defend bad leaders?
[01:25:05] Okay, your superiors.
[01:25:07] To your men.
[01:25:08] Think about it.
[01:25:09] Think about that question.
[01:25:15] This is a good.
[01:25:17] It's a good question.
[01:25:19] And we haven't done Q&A in a while.
[01:25:21] That's why I want to start off.
[01:25:22] Think about that.
[01:25:23] Should you defend bad leaders?
[01:25:25] That are people that are in charge.
[01:25:26] You should defend them to your men.
[01:25:29] Now this is really a perfect example of the dichotomy of leadership.
[01:25:36] And this is one of those situations that makes leadership very, very hard because it requires
[01:25:41] a nuanced balance to handle this correctly.
[01:25:47] So on the one hand, if we say our boss is a bad leader and doesn't know what he's doing,
[01:25:59] difficult to get all the boss.
[01:26:00] Echo our boss doesn't know what he's doing.
[01:26:02] He's an idiot.
[01:26:04] We undermine his authority.
[01:26:06] For sure.
[01:26:07] And we undermine the authority of the whole chain of command.
[01:26:10] So should you call out when someone sucks?
[01:26:15] You say, oh, that guy sucks.
[01:26:16] He's terrible.
[01:26:17] Should you do that to your leader?
[01:26:19] The answer is no.
[01:26:20] You can't do that.
[01:26:21] You can't do that because you're undermining everything.
[01:26:23] So you got a horrible leader.
[01:26:25] You can't just sit there to your boys and say, hey, this guy's an idiot.
[01:26:28] You can't do that.
[01:26:31] However.
[01:26:34] If you give full support to this horrible boss, then your troops, who know a good leader
[01:26:44] from a bad leader?
[01:26:46] They know what's stupid and what isn't.
[01:26:47] They know this.
[01:26:48] They know this.
[01:26:49] And if you are sitting there back into my 100% then they're going to know that you either
[01:26:57] actually agree with the bad leader, which is bad.
[01:27:00] Or that you're too weak to stand up and say, hey, boss, what we're doing is wrong.
[01:27:07] So you can't go to one extreme.
[01:27:09] The boss is an idiot.
[01:27:11] You can't go to the other extreme.
[01:27:12] The boss is awesome.
[01:27:13] Think about how hard that is.
[01:27:14] Think about what I'm saying.
[01:27:16] This is a very, very challenging.
[01:27:18] So what can you do?
[01:27:21] Well, okay, first of all, as a subordinate leader, it is your duty to push back, right?
[01:27:27] To say, hey, boss, I think we're doing the wrong thing here.
[01:27:31] And this is why we spend a lot of time trying to build relationships with our bosses
[01:27:34] so that we can have candid conversations with them, right?
[01:27:37] Sometimes it's hard to do that.
[01:27:39] It is, I understand.
[01:27:43] But when you have built a relationship, then you can go to your boss and say, hey, look, this
[01:27:51] is not good.
[01:27:53] And now once you've done that, then you can go to your troops and you say, hey, look,
[01:27:59] I went to the bosses when I told them, you know, I told them that, hey, doing this method
[01:28:03] isn't going to work well.
[01:28:05] He explained to me while we're doing it.
[01:28:06] This is what he said.
[01:28:07] So this is why we're using this method.
[01:28:08] I know it's not popular to you guys, but here's the reason why we're doing it.
[01:28:13] So you made progress, right?
[01:28:14] Your guys were saying, okay, well, he at least stood up to the man.
[01:28:17] And now he gave us an answer.
[01:28:18] He told us why we're doing what we're doing.
[01:28:19] So that's good too.
[01:28:22] But the other thing is, when an easiest way to do this is to provide an honest, to
[01:28:29] pin truth, truth is going to be your friend here.
[01:28:32] Truth is going to be your friend.
[01:28:33] Now I should, I should put a caveat around that.
[01:28:37] Because the truth might be, you think your boss is a complete idiot and everything you
[01:28:41] say in the stupid.
[01:28:42] So I, I take it back.
[01:28:43] No, use full on truth.
[01:28:45] And then this is so, this is so interesting too because clearly truthfulness is a huge, you
[01:28:53] know, it's a value that I've hold very dear, right?
[01:28:58] And you got to be truthful and all that.
[01:29:00] I'm telling you right now do not be true.
[01:29:02] If you think your boss is an idiot and you think the method that he's picking or the
[01:29:05] plan he's got is stupid, don't be truthful to your guys and go down there and say,
[01:29:09] boss is an idiot, it's not going to help your team, right?
[01:29:12] We have to be smart about what we're doing.
[01:29:16] But when you do that, what you need to do is keep it somewhere in the middle.
[01:29:24] Okay.
[01:29:25] So, when you say something negative, don't get all crazy with the negative.
[01:29:30] Don't get all nuts with the negative.
[01:29:34] What you want to do is say, you say something like, hey, look, I'm sure there's some
[01:29:38] better ways of doing this, but this is the decision that was made and we need to make
[01:29:42] it work.
[01:29:43] Right?
[01:29:44] So, I'm not saying it's horrible.
[01:29:45] I'm saying, look, hey, guys, I'm sure there's some better ways, but guess what?
[01:29:47] This is what we are being told to do right now and we're going to do the best we can.
[01:29:51] They'll just let them put in it from like them to the we making, I'm taking ownership
[01:29:55] of it.
[01:29:56] This is now ours to execute.
[01:29:58] So you want to do that, or you.
[01:30:00] And I also want to focus more on as much as I can.
[01:30:06] I want to focus on not the personality of the boss, but I want to focus on the
[01:30:12] level of what we're being told, type thing, or what the mission is.
[01:30:14] Because I don't want to bring, I want to keep the personality of the boss at bay.
[01:30:18] Sometimes you get a boss that has such a raging asshole personality that you have to say
[01:30:23] something.
[01:30:24] Like you just, you have to explain.
[01:30:26] And that's when even then you want to ratchet it down a little bit.
[01:30:28] You don't say hey, the boss's asshole.
[01:30:30] Yeah.
[01:30:31] The boss's an idiot.
[01:30:32] No, you don't say that.
[01:30:33] You know, you say, hey, look, guys, I know the boss is not exactly perfect, but I think
[01:30:39] he means well, if what he's trying to do, and that way, we need to focus for that reason,
[01:30:44] we need to focus on executing.
[01:30:45] Because it's not going to help us to sit here and complain about the boss.
[01:30:48] He might not have the greatest personality, but you know what?
[01:30:51] His intention is good.
[01:30:52] So let's support him.
[01:30:53] You know what I mean?
[01:30:54] Something like that where you're not, you're not giving him full support, but you're
[01:30:59] not completely throwing him under the bus.
[01:31:01] Again, this is so hard to do because let's face it.
[01:31:06] The boys, the troops, they know what's up.
[01:31:10] They know when that boss is an idiot.
[01:31:12] They know when he's unprofessional.
[01:31:13] They know when he treats you like shit.
[01:31:15] They know that stuff.
[01:31:17] And so if you bow down, if you break, and you give that to him, yes, you're right.
[01:31:21] The boss is jerky.
[01:31:22] Yes, you're right.
[01:31:23] The boss treats people like shit.
[01:31:25] Yeah, if you give them that, you're hurting the situation.
[01:31:31] And that's why also when you're in a leadership position, you're job oftentimes is to buffer.
[01:31:36] Between the jerk boss and the boys.
[01:31:39] You don't, the boys should never know that the kind of stupid harassment that you get from
[01:31:46] your boss.
[01:31:47] The boys should never know that.
[01:31:48] They should think, hey, Jockel says this guy is good to go.
[01:31:51] We're good to go.
[01:31:52] There's never, think this guy's unedient.
[01:31:57] So again, in both cases, it's like you can't go hardcore.
[01:32:04] You can't go hardcore against either the plan or the person.
[01:32:09] But you also, at the same time, you need to give a little bit of a precious release.
[01:32:14] Just a little bit of a precious release.
[01:32:15] You know, you kind of give them just enough that they go.
[01:32:18] You know what you want them to think?
[01:32:20] You want them to think, hey, Jockel gets it.
[01:32:24] He knows.
[01:32:25] He's not admitting it to us and good on him.
[01:32:30] He's keeping it professional.
[01:32:31] They know that they know that Jockel, they know I don't love him.
[01:32:34] They love the boss, but they know I'm keeping it professional.
[01:32:39] Therefore, they accept what I'm saying and they stay part of the team.
[01:32:45] Yeah, it kind of feels like I'm kind of managing myself as one of the boys.
[01:32:50] You're my boss in, we don't really like your boss.
[01:32:55] I feel like sure if I was made to feel better in whatever way, just a little bit better
[01:33:01] than that pressure release.
[01:33:05] And I trust you because of how you always handle things or whatever.
[01:33:09] You know what, all right, it's not the best funness, whatever.
[01:33:12] It's not my first choice, but at least we're doing it together.
[01:33:15] You know, I trust you and all right, let's do this kind of thing.
[01:33:18] And one of the key things you just said is trust.
[01:33:20] So if you trust me and the boss is saying to do something completely ridiculous and I come
[01:33:27] down and say, echo, guess what we're going to do.
[01:33:30] We're going to dig this hole and then we're going to fill it back in.
[01:33:32] I want to do it six times today.
[01:33:34] Let's get to work and you know it's stupid.
[01:33:37] And I come down and try and sell that to you without any explanation with that voice.
[01:33:42] Yeah, with that voice, I'm going to lose trust.
[01:33:46] You're not going to trust me as much.
[01:33:47] Now if I come down and say, hey, hey, boys, hey, bringing in this is what's going on.
[01:33:51] Yeah, so you're going back to your memory voice here.
[01:33:54] Going back to the leadership voice.
[01:33:55] Listen, hey guys, here's what's going on.
[01:33:57] I know this is going to come across as a strange task.
[01:34:00] We're going to get it done.
[01:34:01] We got to dig these holes.
[01:34:02] I don't want to fill them back in.
[01:34:04] And we're actually going to do this six times today.
[01:34:07] Again, I know it's not exactly what we're planning to do today.
[01:34:10] But look, let's get after it.
[01:34:11] Let's get it done.
[01:34:12] And let's prove to everybody that we can make this happen faster than it.
[01:34:15] And all of a sudden we're working to get after it.
[01:34:17] You know what I mean?
[01:34:18] It's no factor.
[01:34:19] Whereas again, if I go into like a dorky, nerd voice and try and say, we are going to do this
[01:34:24] because it's the best plan ever.
[01:34:25] Yeah.
[01:34:26] I'm actually hurting my trust.
[01:34:27] So this is a really, really nuanced thing.
[01:34:33] And my best advice here is to try and keep it in the middle.
[01:34:38] Right?
[01:34:39] Try and keep it in.
[01:34:40] And I'll tell you probably lean a little bit.
[01:34:42] Lean towards being professional.
[01:34:43] Lean towards supporting the chain of command because because the guys are going to know
[01:34:46] when you give them that little, little pressure relief, you say, hey, I know this is
[01:34:52] this is a little bit of a strange plan.
[01:34:53] As soon as I say that, everyone's like, okay, he honours.
[01:34:55] Yeah, it's worth it.
[01:34:56] Do whatever he says.
[01:34:57] Hey, jocke, okay, jocke, we get it.
[01:35:00] You got to have us do this.
[01:35:01] Cool.
[01:35:02] Let's do it.
[01:35:03] Yeah.
[01:35:04] It's when I come down and say, hmm.
[01:35:06] And again, you'll realize that this is the opposite.
[01:35:10] I say all the time, you know, if you come down and say the boss is plan, we got to do this.
[01:35:14] I always throw that as like the worst possible leadership is, hey, we got to do this
[01:35:18] because we are told to do it.
[01:35:20] That's the worst possible leadership.
[01:35:22] Not saying to do that.
[01:35:23] What I'm saying is a little pressure relief.
[01:35:26] Hey, look, I threw up a different plan.
[01:35:29] I thought my plan was a little bit better.
[01:35:31] Boss came up with this idea.
[01:35:32] We're going to go for it.
[01:35:34] It's close enough.
[01:35:35] Just something like that.
[01:35:36] Just like, I know.
[01:35:37] I know.
[01:35:38] I think it, yeah.
[01:35:39] That's it.
[01:35:40] Little, little, little, little nugget.
[01:35:42] Yeah, I feel like I would feel if you were to be like, this is such a dumb plan.
[01:35:45] And I don't know why we got to do it or whatever.
[01:35:47] I'd be like, wait, wait, then why are we doing that?
[01:35:49] Exactly.
[01:35:50] You're my bot, why are we doing that?
[01:35:52] Yeah.
[01:35:53] And I wouldn't want to do it.
[01:35:54] No.
[01:35:55] Hopefully, it's like right in the middle there.
[01:35:57] It's leaning towards being professional.
[01:35:59] It's leaning towards supporting the chain of command with just enough of a pressure relief
[01:36:04] to have them say.
[01:36:05] I'll tell you story.
[01:36:06] This is real quick.
[01:36:08] This was in, take your time.
[01:36:10] I want you to tell me the longest story.
[01:36:11] We're going back to ninth grade.
[01:36:12] No, it's three.
[01:36:13] And this is pretty high school.
[01:36:14] It's weird that I even thought of this.
[01:36:16] So we, we, you know how I'm like in class, right?
[01:36:19] This, uh, a high early high school freshman.
[01:36:22] You know, in class.
[01:36:23] They're like, hey, get into groups.
[01:36:25] We're going to do this thing.
[01:36:27] And, um, so we got into these groups and we did some project little thing during class.
[01:36:32] We were done halfway through class.
[01:36:34] We're done and we're about to present the teacher looks at it.
[01:36:37] And it's like, oh, you guys got to do it again.
[01:36:40] But the teacher doesn't tell everyone.
[01:36:42] She tells us just this one girl Marla is her name.
[01:36:44] Marla.
[01:36:45] Yeah.
[01:36:46] So Marla comes back from talking to the teacher and she's like, she was kind of a leader.
[01:36:51] No, and David.
[01:36:52] At that point, she was kind of a little leader that liaison between the group.
[01:36:56] Right.
[01:36:57] So she comes back to like, she's like, we got to do it again.
[01:37:00] And everyone was like, what?
[01:37:01] She goes, we got to do it again.
[01:37:03] Like, you could tell she had accepted it.
[01:37:05] But just her being like, sign kind of demonstrated that, hey, she feels the pain too.
[01:37:10] I dig it.
[01:37:11] But hey, guys, you know, we're not going to complain right.
[01:37:13] It's just that little subtle thing.
[01:37:15] But that's exactly what it did.
[01:37:16] It kind of, it basically accepted the order that none of us really wanted to hear.
[01:37:21] But at the same time, she demonstrated that, hey, she feels it too.
[01:37:24] You know, and let's do it.
[01:37:25] We did again, of course.
[01:37:26] And whatever.
[01:37:27] I don't even know what grade we have.
[01:37:28] It's got an A plus.
[01:37:29] I'm sure Marla workers and her leadership skills on this.
[01:37:34] Yeah, it was weird that, I mean, I don't know necessarily that she intended to do that.
[01:37:37] But that was the exact effect.
[01:37:38] And you can think and back, I can see the elements, you know, the little pressure release
[01:37:43] was her not saying, don't talk to me like that.
[01:37:47] She said we got to do it.
[01:37:48] She didn't like a pose anybody.
[01:37:49] But he heard just heard little she, how mannerisms she didn't do.
[01:37:52] She didn't jump completely on board with the teacher.
[01:37:55] Yeah.
[01:37:56] And be like, we got to do this again.
[01:37:58] It sucked.
[01:37:59] No, she was like, hey, look, we got what I have to do this again.
[01:38:01] You know what I mean?
[01:38:02] She just took the tongue.
[01:38:03] She was perfect.
[01:38:04] And I'll tell you, this question, I'm surprised it took so long to get this question.
[01:38:08] Because this is a really, really good question.
[01:38:10] And it also is a incredibly important skill to be able to walk this line and it's
[01:38:17] tricky to do.
[01:38:19] And it's a very, it's sort of, this might be one of the, this is like the type of thing
[01:38:27] that helped me a lot.
[01:38:29] When I was in the team was just being able to do this enough because you could do some
[01:38:33] dumb shit with the team's man.
[01:38:36] And you know what?
[01:38:37] It's like, okay, being able to translate a stupid, something stupid and give enough
[01:38:43] pressure relief to make guys not just go, joc was just, you know, company guy.
[01:38:49] Right, it's a company guy.
[01:38:50] He just lives, oh, he doesn't stand up for us.
[01:38:52] No, actually I do.
[01:38:54] But this is, you know, like, life's all telling that story about doing paperwork.
[01:38:57] I don't know.
[01:38:58] I'm like, no, we're going to do all the paperwork.
[01:39:00] I, I went, I had the company line, but like in such a dynamic or such an overboard way
[01:39:06] that guys were like, okay, yeah, we're going to win.
[01:39:08] Yeah, this is a competition.
[01:39:10] Yeah.
[01:39:11] So that's good times.
[01:39:12] Yeah, it's like a meet.
[01:39:14] Because it seems like, okay, all that paperwork, it's almost like the paperwork was like
[01:39:18] an affront, dude.
[01:39:19] It's like, hey, what is the us against them kind of?
[01:39:21] Right.
[01:39:22] And whoever told us to do the paperwork.
[01:39:23] And you were like, yeah, it's obviously a them and we're going to do this.
[01:39:26] We is being exactly.
[01:39:27] You know, so it's like you take it to them.
[01:39:29] Yeah.
[01:39:30] That's something I've done.
[01:39:31] I've actually done that a fair amount.
[01:39:32] I talked about the story before, but like an officer candidate school, every little
[01:39:35] stupid rule that they threw at us.
[01:39:36] I did it to the end three and had everyone at class to the end three where they were just
[01:39:40] going.
[01:39:41] Yeah, yeah, going ballistic.
[01:39:42] So a story like that where we're just going, we're going to take with their take
[01:39:46] the order and carry it out to the extra even take pride in doing that.
[01:39:50] That was not a little tactic that got used by me along the way.
[01:39:53] Yeah, we're going to do that.
[01:39:55] We can do it so hard.
[01:39:56] You're not even know what your name was.
[01:39:59] That's another tactic you can take.
[01:40:00] For sure.
[01:40:01] They want us to polish these boots.
[01:40:03] They want us to clean this thing.
[01:40:04] We'll do it.
[01:40:06] Watch this.
[01:40:07] All right.
[01:40:08] Next question.
[01:40:10] Next question.
[01:40:11] Jocco.
[01:40:12] Has there been a situation in which you took something too personally?
[01:40:18] How do you avoid taking things personally?
[01:40:20] So the initial reaction is like, no man, I don't take things too personally.
[01:40:22] You don't want to keep it.
[01:40:23] But the actual fact is, yeah, I take things.
[01:40:25] I take everything personally.
[01:40:26] Right?
[01:40:27] Like, I mean, if I do something bad, I am very personally.
[01:40:33] I don't like it at all.
[01:40:34] If I do something poorly, I don't like it at all.
[01:40:36] I take it very personally.
[01:40:37] If somebody gives me feedback, I take it personally.
[01:40:41] This is like, it's an ego thing.
[01:40:44] It's a pure ego thing.
[01:40:45] Right?
[01:40:46] And I just had to say this at a group I was talking to.
[01:40:48] Just because I say ego is bad all the time, ego is good too.
[01:40:52] Ego is what drives you.
[01:40:54] Ego is what makes you want to be number one.
[01:40:56] ego is what brings you pride in your work.
[01:40:59] It makes you work harder to give deliver good product and be a good leader and a good employee
[01:41:05] and a good person.
[01:41:06] Right?
[01:41:07] That's ego.
[01:41:08] It comes when ego or taking things personally actually prevents you from listening to the
[01:41:15] critiques that you're being told.
[01:41:17] That's the problem.
[01:41:18] So for instance, we'll take this little podcast right here.
[01:41:21] I've got some critique on it the other day.
[01:41:23] Yeah.
[01:41:24] I've got somebody who sent me a little critique and they said that I didn't explain
[01:41:30] because we had Andy Snumpfone here and Andy was kind of rattling off his career in the
[01:41:35] teams.
[01:41:36] He was rattling off the career in the teams.
[01:41:38] He lost some people.
[01:41:40] Not a bunch because it wasn't that complicated but he lost some people.
[01:41:43] And for instance, he used an acronym, an acronym, an acronym LPO which stands for leading
[01:41:53] petty officer which is the second senior enlisted person in a seal platoon and I didn't
[01:42:00] explain that when he said it.
[01:42:02] So there's an example.
[01:42:03] So when I heard this, my first reaction is like, oh, you don't know what LPO is.
[01:42:07] Go Google it.
[01:42:09] Go Google it.
[01:42:10] Why are you asking me?
[01:42:11] It'll break stop talk.
[01:42:14] And then that was pretty much, you know, my ego was saying, hey, I can't believe this
[01:42:19] person does.
[01:42:20] Yeah, how dare you?
[01:42:21] I'll dare you.
[01:42:22] And then I thought about I was like, well, you know, I need to make sure in the future
[01:42:25] that I'm more aware of what guys are talking, especially when I'm sitting here talking
[01:42:29] to another seal who we have a common language and we are talking about things in a very
[01:42:37] conversational mode.
[01:42:38] So we're not caring about anybody else.
[01:42:40] And that's sort of what the podcast is often is like, we're not talking to everyone
[01:42:44] that's listening at this moment.
[01:42:45] We're just kind of talking to ourselves or amongst ourselves.
[01:42:48] And so when he throws out this words, I need to be more aware of them.
[01:42:52] So if I took it personally, I might not listen.
[01:42:54] If I actually listen, I can do a better job.
[01:42:59] So that's kind of it.
[01:43:05] And basically that's the same with anybody when anybody receives any criticism of any kind.
[01:43:10] They get, they take it personally.
[01:43:13] And I think the thing is two things.
[01:43:16] Number one, get over it so you can listen to what the criticism is.
[01:43:21] And also remember this.
[01:43:23] This is kind of weird.
[01:43:24] I think maybe I'm wrong.
[01:43:25] What do you think?
[01:43:27] The more angry and the more personally you take some criticism, the true or it actually
[01:43:35] is.
[01:43:36] Is that possible?
[01:43:38] When something really bothers you, it's probably something that really bothers you
[01:43:42] because you know it's true.
[01:43:44] Like when somebody says something that just doesn't matter to me, it's, you know, I don't
[01:43:50] take it personally.
[01:43:51] Oh, yeah, they just think that.
[01:43:52] Don't worry about it.
[01:43:53] I'm not worried about it.
[01:43:54] Maybe says something that I know is true and they're paying you.
[01:43:58] That means I get even more.
[01:44:00] Take it more personally and get more angry about it.
[01:44:02] And then that should be an indicator.
[01:44:04] Hey, this is something you actually need to fix.
[01:44:06] Yeah, it actually has to do with insecurity more than anything.
[01:44:10] So it can be, it can be super true or it can be kind of true or you can just be questioning
[01:44:14] whether or not it's true.
[01:44:15] If you're insecure about it, that's when it's going to be, because you can be like,
[01:44:19] there can be, okay, you know, let's say guys have a receding here like, and they're like,
[01:44:22] oh, I don't care about that at all.
[01:44:24] It's totally true, you know, and or let's say I do care about it.
[01:44:28] I don't like it, but I, I've known it for the last 20 years, whatever.
[01:44:32] And so I was like, hey, you know, your hairlines receding.
[01:44:34] Do you like to care about that?
[01:44:36] I don't think they do.
[01:44:38] No, I don't know.
[01:44:39] I mean, but I'm just saying these certain things.
[01:44:40] It's, and if you know about it or you know, and you know it's true, and see, you
[01:44:46] won't necessarily be bothered by it.
[01:44:48] But if you get someone who's like, it's starting to recede early on or it's like,
[01:44:53] dang, and they won't necessarily be, this is just an example hypothetical, but they won't
[01:44:59] necessarily be concerned about the actual hairline receding.
[01:45:03] They're more concerned about, oh, do I look older?
[01:45:05] Am I unattractive now?
[01:45:07] Or am I losing it now?
[01:45:08] Or something like that?
[01:45:09] That's what they're insecure about.
[01:45:10] So when someone points out some symptom of that insecurity, that's when they're like,
[01:45:14] well, you know, they get on, oh man, that goes for kind of anything.
[01:45:18] So maybe, I don't know, maybe someone's saying, hey, you didn't explain this enough.
[01:45:23] Maybe you're like, what are you saying?
[01:45:25] Was that a junk episode kind of thing or something like, did I not, you know how you,
[01:45:30] you're good at explaining stuff and simplifying them or whatever, maybe it was like an
[01:45:33] attack on matters.
[01:45:34] Maybe it's a personal point of pride.
[01:45:36] Yeah, yeah, you know exactly.
[01:45:38] I don't know.
[01:45:39] Yeah, but maybe, but that's typically what people get mad about.
[01:45:42] It's not necessarily if they know it's true or not, it's if they're insecure about it.
[01:45:45] Right, well, you wouldn't be insecure about something that wasn't true.
[01:45:48] No, but here's the thing, but sometimes you do, because you know, and you, sometimes
[01:45:52] it's like a weird like mental problem, but, you know, girls, for example, I'm not saying
[01:45:57] all girls, but I'm gonna totally generalize right now.
[01:46:00] But you know, the girls like, hey, do I look fat in this?
[01:46:02] The girls like an awesome shape or whatever.
[01:46:05] And you're like, they always think they're fat.
[01:46:08] That's not true.
[01:46:09] That's not the right response by the way.
[01:46:11] That's not where she was.
[01:46:12] That's not the perfect example though.
[01:46:14] You know what I mean?
[01:46:15] So, it's like that kind of stuff.
[01:46:17] You know, people are just insecure about stuff sometimes.
[01:46:20] Oh, and even though the girls are really good-shamed.
[01:46:22] Yeah.
[01:46:23] Yeah, that's horrible.
[01:46:25] Or even guys, especially like if they're into like their physique or something like that,
[01:46:30] were, I don't know, they're at a party or so.
[01:46:33] I've heard guys like they go to parties and they'll do like dips or push-ups before they
[01:46:37] walk in because like, so they're like more pumped.
[01:46:39] I swear.
[01:46:40] And is that why you're doing some push-ups?
[01:46:42] That's what you're doing.
[01:46:46] That means they're like, you're just a little insecure about what I just said.
[01:46:49] That's what I said.
[01:46:52] Anyway, you know, they'll get that kind of where they'll be like, oh, I'm, they'll think
[01:46:58] that, oh, I'm not looking very cut up for something like that.
[01:47:00] You know, like that kind of stuff.
[01:47:01] Well, it's not true.
[01:47:03] Yeah.
[01:47:04] Yeah.
[01:47:05] No, I think that's a good point.
[01:47:07] And I think the bottom line is when we take things personally, I think,
[01:47:12] it's actually not a negative thing because it means that there's probably something that
[01:47:18] you need to work on.
[01:47:20] But I think what we need to watch out for is taking it personally and therefore being
[01:47:23] mad and either be mad at the person that told you, which the person probably could be
[01:47:29] out of line, you know, saying some stuff that's offensive.
[01:47:32] But even if someone offends you.
[01:47:34] Well, okay.
[01:47:35] Well, let's fix it.
[01:47:36] So you don't have that weakness or that insecurity anymore.
[01:47:40] So just know what your red flags are, knowing you're taking something, everybody takes
[01:47:43] stuff personally.
[01:47:44] Yeah.
[01:47:45] I'm like Mr. Detachment and I take stuff personally all the time and somebody says something
[01:47:49] to me, I'm like, oh, okay.
[01:47:50] Why don't I do the do better?
[01:47:52] Yeah.
[01:47:53] You do good job.
[01:47:54] We'll see in the big picture, though.
[01:47:55] You know, like, because a lot of times, you don't want, I don't know.
[01:47:58] I always think back to the relationship.
[01:48:01] Like, okay, let's say, let's say I'm at home.
[01:48:03] I'm mowing the lawn.
[01:48:05] I, you know, did all this great housework chores, whatever.
[01:48:09] You know, dad comes home, mom comes home and they're like, hey, I thought I told you
[01:48:15] to take out the trash.
[01:48:16] Meanwhile, everything else is speaking span.
[01:48:18] So I'm like, I'm mad.
[01:48:21] You know, how dare you say that to me when I did this mean me, my thing, my thing, but
[01:48:25] at the same time, they're right.
[01:48:27] You know, so you do a good job of like, you'd be able to recognize that.
[01:48:30] Even though you probably feel those same feelings.
[01:48:32] You won't, your default isn't what about this and fight back and make the prom bigger.
[01:48:38] It's kind of like, you'll feel it on the inside and recognize the red flags of what's
[01:48:43] happening.
[01:48:44] You're like, okay, I gotta remember taking out the trash because the truth is that's correct.
[01:48:49] That is correct.
[01:48:50] It doesn't matter if you did the lawn or not, the trash was a thing, you know.
[01:48:53] So yeah, yeah, you do a good job of recognizing that part.
[01:48:57] I think a lot of times, in our case, we don't do such a good job.
[01:49:03] You know, I'm going to throw this out.
[01:49:04] There's this little off subject, but it just made me think of it.
[01:49:06] He was talking to Dave at the gym yesterday.
[01:49:10] He was listening to the podcast and he lost his dad and like six months ago.
[01:49:19] And he was listening to a clip from the podcast of me basically saying, hey, because
[01:49:26] someone asked what good comes from when someone dies.
[01:49:30] And he said, look, you covered a lot of stuff and it was super powerful and it was very
[01:49:35] helpful.
[01:49:36] But there's a one more thing.
[01:49:38] He said, there's one more thing that has come from my dad's death that it's good.
[01:49:44] And I said, what?
[01:49:46] And he said, it was like a slap in the face of go out and get after it.
[01:49:55] You know, and I kind of left that out.
[01:49:57] And I've talked to other people.
[01:49:59] And clearly, you know, when you lose someone that's close to you, see the reason I guess
[01:50:03] the reason that I didn't think of this is because in the teams, you kind of like, you guys
[01:50:09] get killed, you know.
[01:50:11] And we all kind of already live with the feeling of, hey, man, I mean, I say it all the time.
[01:50:16] I'm going to live the best life I can.
[01:50:19] But for someone in the civilian sector, and they haven't had any, they haven't lost anyone.
[01:50:25] They haven't had anyone died close to them.
[01:50:27] They get the feeling that many of us, many people walk through the world with of, I'm
[01:50:32] in a living forever.
[01:50:33] You know, I'm not going to die.
[01:50:35] And I got all the time and the world had me back at time.
[01:50:37] And so he made this great point.
[01:50:39] He said, you know, for me, when my dad died, he's, you know, he's in his mid 20's.
[01:50:44] And he's been kind of, you know, I don't want to say that we're relaxing, but he's been,
[01:50:49] you know, fairly, he's been cruising kind of.
[01:50:53] And he realized he can't, he can't do that.
[01:50:55] You know, he needs to get after it.
[01:50:58] So cool, cool story, cool feedback.
[01:51:01] I thought I should let everybody know that's another good thing.
[01:51:04] When if you lose someone and you're not accustomed to that and you don't see how precious life is
[01:51:12] because a lot of times it's pretty easy to forget.
[01:51:14] It's pretty easy to forget how precious it is when it's right there when it's given to you.
[01:51:20] You know, it's just like food.
[01:51:22] It's pretty easy to forget.
[01:51:23] I mean, how precious was the was the crappy loaf of French bread with sticks and bugs
[01:51:27] of it that Colonel Rita got when he got to the prison camp in Hanoi?
[01:51:31] That was precious.
[01:51:33] And you know what?
[01:51:34] Even Colonel Rita three weeks later he was like, oh, this bread even he's here he's laughing.
[01:51:38] He's like, that bread sucked.
[01:51:39] I was like, sir, here you said it was like the best thing you've ever had.
[01:51:41] He goes, well, it wasn't first.
[01:51:43] So we all get, we all get this attitude that, you know, hey, this is always going to be here.
[01:51:48] Well, it's not always going to be here.
[01:51:49] So don't treat it like it is.
[01:51:52] Taking that for granted.
[01:51:53] Yep.
[01:51:54] Next question.
[01:51:57] Hi, Jocco.
[01:52:02] I'm being told in Jiu Jitsu that I'm using too much strength to execute techniques and dominating
[01:52:08] roles.
[01:52:09] I get after it in the gym and try to be stronger and fitter.
[01:52:13] I already limit my strength against same weight training partners and definitely don't
[01:52:18] pull.
[01:52:20] Don't bull rush or overpower lighter partners.
[01:52:23] I want to improve my Jiu Jitsu knowledge and understand the intent of reducing my strength
[01:52:27] and it reduces my strength to learn the skill.
[01:52:30] But where is the balance?
[01:52:32] I feel like I'm doing, being penalized for working hard and being strong.
[01:52:38] There has to be an element of strength to technique, right?
[01:52:43] Now that I'm trying to do zero strength working weak positions and they still go 100% on
[01:52:48] me, I'm not learning anything, right?
[01:52:51] What is asking?
[01:52:54] What is my 25% stronger than my training partners?
[01:52:58] 100% of training no-gu for four years but ghee only for 12 months.
[01:53:03] Don't judge a way, Bill.
[01:53:05] We're here.
[01:53:07] Okay, so you know, I don't think anyone is saying use zero strength and just be a, are
[01:53:15] you to have kids in the kids class that would just flop around.
[01:53:19] You know, they'd be like noodles, you know, especially when you're a partner, right?
[01:53:23] And I say, hey, don't be that.
[01:53:25] So no one's telling you to use zero strength.
[01:53:27] That's not the goal here.
[01:53:30] You just want to use less strength and I'm the same way man, I work out so I can be strong.
[01:53:36] And when we're rolling, if I have to use strength, I'm going to use it.
[01:53:39] You bench pressed me off off you the other day from across I.
[01:53:43] I'll technique.
[01:53:44] Yeah, I'll tell you.
[01:53:45] You know, you even claimed it at the top.
[01:53:49] You're like, that's all weight lifted.
[01:53:50] So that's good, right?
[01:53:52] And you used it because you had to use it.
[01:53:54] You were going to get punished and you're like, oh, I'm not going to have jockel across
[01:53:57] the side.
[01:53:58] Just rolling in the roll.
[01:53:59] So boom, got bench pressed.
[01:54:00] People were watching too much.
[01:54:01] Yeah, yeah.
[01:54:02] So yeah, we want to be strong for sure.
[01:54:06] But I'll tell you, this is a, is a key thing.
[01:54:08] When I'm going to train with someone, I'm going to use just enough skill and strength
[01:54:15] to stay slightly ahead of them.
[01:54:17] That's enough.
[01:54:18] I'm not trying to crush them.
[01:54:22] If someone's any, I'm going to tell you if someone's way lighter than me, then, but they
[01:54:26] have kind of a equivalent skill that I'm going to try and limit my strength as much as I
[01:54:30] can.
[01:54:31] So it's due to your risk of due to for sure.
[01:54:32] But I'm definitely going to use my strength if needed for really for a couple of reasons.
[01:54:39] The first reason is because of ego.
[01:54:41] Sure.
[01:54:42] Great.
[01:54:43] I don't want to tap.
[01:54:44] I don't want to get caught in a bad position.
[01:54:45] I don't like that.
[01:54:46] You know, if you train, like when we're done training, I'm definitely using strength
[01:54:51] because I'm dripping with sweat.
[01:54:52] Right?
[01:54:53] I mean, I'm using physical attributes.
[01:54:56] But it's not the only reason.
[01:54:57] The other reason that you have to use your strength sometimes is you don't want to give
[01:55:03] people the false sense of security that a that worked.
[01:55:07] Right?
[01:55:08] Even your good training partners, like you don't want to say, oh, the guy gets a position
[01:55:12] so you just tap.
[01:55:13] Right.
[01:55:14] Is it in a competition or in the street?
[01:55:16] The person is not just going to tap.
[01:55:17] They need to do it right.
[01:55:20] So that's it.
[01:55:22] I guess the bottom line is that my guess is this dude is probably using too much strength.
[01:55:28] He's probably one of those guys that's naturally really strong and he works out and he's
[01:55:32] thinking I've been training no ghee for four years.
[01:55:34] So now when I put this ghee on man, I'm angry about it because I'm falling behind a little
[01:55:38] bit.
[01:55:39] So I'm going to use some strength.
[01:55:40] Yeah.
[01:55:41] Try and relax and just one of my favorite pieces of advice to give relax, harger.
[01:55:50] Yeah.
[01:55:51] Just relax, try and flow when you roll a little bit and it definitely will make you it'll
[01:55:55] make you better in the end.
[01:55:56] The more you relax the the the the better you'll get in the end.
[01:56:00] Yeah.
[01:56:01] And certain.
[01:56:02] I found that like certain guys that's just their just their method really.
[01:56:07] Just strong.
[01:56:08] Yeah.
[01:56:09] And that's how they roll and they're just aggressive.
[01:56:11] Physically that's how and I found that they can a lot of times they can get more technical
[01:56:19] you know, but really that's kind of their their strengths in a way and that's it's just
[01:56:24] their way of rolling.
[01:56:25] Yeah.
[01:56:26] You know what now that you mentioned it and some people that are like that they have
[01:56:29] like an on and off switch.
[01:56:30] They're either all on or they're just super docile.
[01:56:34] Yeah.
[01:56:35] It's almost like I got to find that middle ground if you can.
[01:56:37] But people are different like let's say like remember Franklin.
[01:56:42] Yeah.
[01:56:43] He's really flexible.
[01:56:44] Easy.
[01:56:45] Okay.
[01:56:45] Consider him where he's going to be real technical and flexible and flowy and stuff.
[01:56:50] And that's his duty.
[01:56:51] So you can.
[01:56:52] I need to be more strong and rigid and aggressive.
[01:56:54] He can train that but his default is that flowy flexible way.
[01:56:58] And guys are like this.
[01:57:00] I think that's going to be kind of their default.
[01:57:02] They can train kind of deviate a little bit and get it more for sure.
[01:57:06] But that's kind of just their that's that's the vehicle they have.
[01:57:11] You know, and it's almost like a genetic thing.
[01:57:13] It's not genetic.
[01:57:14] I know that.
[01:57:15] But it's kind of it's almost like the foundation of their Franklin was a trip
[01:57:19] to roll with because he was so flexible but not just in a normal way.
[01:57:26] You know what his flexbone is?
[01:57:28] His spine was flexed.
[01:57:30] Yeah.
[01:57:31] Like when you put your weight on him and he would just like like jellyfish.
[01:57:34] Like obviously it was a flex.
[01:57:36] Yeah, I was like an octopus.
[01:57:37] It's exactly what was like.
[01:57:38] Hey, I wish he kept training many.
[01:57:40] Yeah, it's not good.
[01:57:41] It's not too long ago.
[01:57:42] Yeah.
[01:57:43] He's trained it like occasionally.
[01:57:45] Yeah.
[01:57:46] He was getting good for a while.
[01:57:47] Yeah, really.
[01:57:48] It's still good though.
[01:57:49] But yeah, it's kind of.
[01:57:51] There's it's more of a mental thing like if you mentally had there's drills like you can do you
[01:57:56] remember Jerry Loudon was his name.
[01:57:59] Yeah.
[01:58:00] He jumped underneath.
[01:58:01] But we used to do the thing he's like, hey, let's just flow.
[01:58:03] Right.
[01:58:04] And you know how people say let's just flow.
[01:58:05] Then they're trying to kill you.
[01:58:06] Yeah, yeah.
[01:58:07] If he wouldn't though, he would be like his flow would be like a fast piece and you
[01:58:10] could even try to hold them down and he'd just be like flowing flowing flowing flowing
[01:58:14] you'd get you in a good position.
[01:58:15] They need to get right out of it and do another you know like he was really good at
[01:58:18] flowing to the point where you get kind of tired because you're moving so much.
[01:58:23] It's not full speed flow.
[01:58:24] It's almost full speed though.
[01:58:26] So I remember doing that a lot with him and it really translated when I would roll.
[01:58:32] It would be like I felt like that difference in technique.
[01:58:35] Yeah, no, that's really good.
[01:58:36] I do I always do a warm-up run with Andy like that would just go position position.
[01:58:40] But going but we're going like you know we're just going we're flowing.
[01:58:44] Yeah.
[01:58:45] That sounds like that.
[01:58:46] Yeah.
[01:58:47] That's what it is.
[01:58:48] I mean, that's what it is.
[01:58:49] The don't ever do that with Dean.
[01:58:51] No, I'm serious.
[01:58:53] Don't ever.
[01:58:54] You know, don't ever say listen to him say like, hey, let's just get warmed up because
[01:59:00] he's not going to do that.
[01:59:02] He's going to flow until he's in a good position.
[01:59:03] He's going to smash you.
[01:59:04] So don't do it.
[01:59:05] I have to just go hard.
[01:59:06] I know.
[01:59:07] Yeah.
[01:59:08] Good.
[01:59:09] Yeah.
[01:59:10] Yeah.
[01:59:11] And he's real good at that.
[01:59:12] Yeah.
[01:59:13] Yeah.
[01:59:14] Yeah.
[01:59:15] That's a good way.
[01:59:16] That's a good way.
[01:59:17] That's a good way.
[01:59:18] That's a good way if you can.
[01:59:19] That's a good way if you can.
[01:59:20] That's a good way if you can.
[01:59:21] That's a good way if you can.
[01:59:22] That's a good way to learn to relax more.
[01:59:24] Yes.
[01:59:25] Yes.
[01:59:26] Yeah.
[01:59:27] Well, not become some more common because let's face it.
[01:59:28] I mean, if you're strong and you're going into roles and people, if two to the point where
[01:59:28] people are saying, hey, you're using too much strength.
[01:59:32] If you're getting like getting asked for.
[01:59:33] If you're hearing that from multiple people, there's an issue, man.
[01:59:37] That's that my point is even though you're saying, hey, some people are just that way.
[01:59:42] Don't accept that.
[01:59:43] Like the guy that asked this question, don't accept echoes thing of saying some people
[01:59:48] just that way because that means you're just going to keep doing it.
[01:59:50] And you get better because you will.
[01:59:52] The more you relax the better you get.
[01:59:54] Yeah.
[01:59:55] And of course, I don't mean it like that.
[01:59:56] Yeah.
[01:59:57] I know I know you don't.
[01:59:58] But I'm saying, like, don't get that misconception that that's what Echo is trying
[02:00:03] to say.
[02:00:04] Hey, you're just that way.
[02:00:05] Go with it.
[02:00:06] No, don't go with it.
[02:00:07] Listen what Echo is saying when he's saying, hey, find somebody to flow role with and just
[02:00:09] let it flow.
[02:00:10] Yeah.
[02:00:11] It's going to be free of the role.
[02:00:12] You find a person who's kind of default method is this.
[02:00:16] And then by the way, I just realized I don't say flow role because I was thinking about what
[02:00:21] I say to Andy.
[02:00:22] We don't say anymore.
[02:00:23] We just do it.
[02:00:24] But I use you a head.
[02:00:25] Let's get a warm up round.
[02:00:26] I call it warm up.
[02:00:27] Oh, my god.
[02:00:28] Okay.
[02:00:29] Slow roll.
[02:00:30] Yeah.
[02:00:31] But sometimes I don't want them.
[02:00:32] Sometimes just like a technique sharpener.
[02:00:34] Yeah.
[02:00:35] Okay.
[02:00:36] This way.
[02:00:37] And unless it's easy.
[02:00:38] It does do some flow rolling.
[02:00:40] It's drills and gets better at it.
[02:00:42] I would guess that there is going to be a significant remainder of his game.
[02:00:50] That's going to be this aggressive game.
[02:00:51] Oh, I think.
[02:00:52] That's it.
[02:00:53] No, they do still don't get aggressive for sure.
[02:00:55] I know that.
[02:00:56] I'm a little bit aggressive on the map for sure.
[02:00:57] Another little mindset that might help is think less competitively.
[02:01:02] You know how like a lot of people from there.
[02:01:04] And really it's true though.
[02:01:06] Here's the thing.
[02:01:07] This element needs to be there.
[02:01:09] Where it when it's time to to spar, it should be competitive.
[02:01:13] Otherwise it's like what are we doing?
[02:01:15] You know, I want to if I want you to be competitive because I want an accurate look of
[02:01:19] what it's like to roll with juggle or a guy like juggle big, strong, good at you.
[02:01:22] Whatever.
[02:01:23] So, if you're just flow rolling with me and non competitively every single time, I'm
[02:01:29] not getting the work that I need.
[02:01:30] That's what I was talking about earlier too.
[02:01:34] That's why you got parts of strength.
[02:01:36] Yeah, you got to use strength.
[02:01:37] Yeah.
[02:01:38] So, it should be competitive.
[02:01:39] But if some people are complaining, you're going to are you're going straight up like
[02:01:42] every row is ADCC on the line like for death, you know, kind of more in that direct.
[02:01:48] The more jiles.
[02:01:49] Yeah.
[02:01:50] So, if you think maybe less of that, and understand that this is this is training, if
[02:01:54] you want to get less using strength, it's something you got to kind of train that stuff.
[02:01:59] I like it.
[02:02:00] Ultimately.
[02:02:01] Next question.
[02:02:02] Next question.
[02:02:03] Juggle, I need some advice if you've got time.
[02:02:06] We got time.
[02:02:07] What's a good course of action when someone lies, betrays trust or just plain destroys you?
[02:02:18] Move on.
[02:02:19] Straight up, move on.
[02:02:22] Forget them.
[02:02:24] They are lying and they are untrustworthy.
[02:02:29] So, move on.
[02:02:31] Now, sometimes this can be hard, especially if they've somehow tied themselves into your life,
[02:02:36] especially like for instance, you get the kids involved in a divorce scenario.
[02:02:42] You can't move on.
[02:02:44] But you have to mentally move on.
[02:02:46] You have to emotionally detach from that human.
[02:02:52] And that's hard to do because obviously they were someone that you trusted.
[02:02:59] And the reason I know that you trusted them is because they got to a point where they were
[02:03:02] able to betray your trust and destroy you.
[02:03:06] So, it's hard.
[02:03:10] But the fact that you trusted them, the fact that you had that relationship, that's even
[02:03:16] more reason to walk away.
[02:03:19] It's even more reason to move on.
[02:03:21] You've got to see them for what they are.
[02:03:28] And this is an important piece right here.
[02:03:30] This is an important piece.
[02:03:31] This is somebody learned as a young lad out there in the world.
[02:03:36] That person is not who you thought they were.
[02:03:43] Right? They are not who you thought they were.
[02:03:47] The idea that this person was a trustworthy faithful companion is not true.
[02:03:58] It is not true.
[02:03:59] That person does not exist.
[02:04:02] They didn't exist and they don't exist.
[02:04:04] It was in your head.
[02:04:05] It was in your head that this person was trustworthy.
[02:04:08] They were everything you wanted them to be and they were faithful commandant.
[02:04:12] That is a lie.
[02:04:13] They are not that person.
[02:04:16] They have proved it.
[02:04:19] They have proved it by their actions.
[02:04:22] So move on and at the risk of sounding callous, get over it.
[02:04:32] Get over it.
[02:04:34] Do not dwell.
[02:04:36] Do not dwell on.
[02:04:38] Do not dwell on what it was.
[02:04:41] And don't dwell on what it could have been you.
[02:04:44] You and guys go through bad breakups.
[02:04:47] I thought we were going to say no.
[02:04:50] Don't dwell on that.
[02:04:51] Deal with what it is right now.
[02:04:53] What that person is.
[02:04:55] Deal with reality, accept reality and be thankful for reality.
[02:05:01] Be thankful that you were able to learn before you invested more into this person.
[02:05:07] Be thankful that you found out when you did that this person was a liar that this person
[02:05:13] was unfaithful, it's untrustworthy.
[02:05:15] Be thankful that you know it and you know it now instead of later.
[02:05:21] And you know what else is going to make a lot easier to get over these situations is
[02:05:25] recognize that there's plenty of people out there in the world that are trustworthy and
[02:05:30] that are faithful.
[02:05:31] Good people.
[02:05:32] They're out there.
[02:05:33] Go find one of them.
[02:05:35] But don't think that that person that you had was the only one in the world.
[02:05:42] They're not.
[02:05:43] And you know what?
[02:05:44] If that sometimes sometimes people have a hard time making that trust because they're
[02:05:49] so caught up and they don't want to meet someone else right away.
[02:05:52] That's fine.
[02:05:53] Start with yourself.
[02:05:55] Relie on yourself.
[02:05:57] Trust yourself because when someone breaks our trust, we question ourselves too.
[02:06:04] We think, my judgment's bad.
[02:06:06] I'm not a good judge of human character because I totally put my faith in this person and
[02:06:10] look what they did to me.
[02:06:11] So now we don't trust or see you got to build that trust up.
[02:06:15] You got to build that trust up back again with yourself.
[02:06:17] How do you do that?
[02:06:18] Read.
[02:06:20] Write, learn, work out.
[02:06:26] Be alone.
[02:06:27] It's okay to be alone.
[02:06:29] Some people get freaked out when they're alone.
[02:06:31] It's okay to be alone.
[02:06:33] It's okay.
[02:06:34] It's okay to be alone.
[02:06:35] There's no big deal.
[02:06:36] Enjoy it.
[02:06:38] Do something productive and build that trust up in yourself.
[02:06:42] You know, look back at the situation.
[02:06:44] Learn from it.
[02:06:45] We do that.
[02:06:46] It's an off post operational debrief.
[02:06:47] Oh, you've put too much trust in somebody.
[02:06:48] Cool.
[02:06:49] They broke your heart.
[02:06:50] Roger that.
[02:06:51] Let's see what we're to step.
[02:06:52] So what should I have recognized?
[02:06:53] How many times did I say, well, you know, they didn't call me but it's probably just
[02:06:57] because their phone was out of battery.
[02:06:59] No.
[02:07:01] Once your phone runs out of battery once.
[02:07:02] Okay, you don't let it happen again.
[02:07:04] Right?
[02:07:05] So you start seeing those red flags.
[02:07:06] See the mistakes that you made.
[02:07:08] And then look for them next time around because you deal with people all the time that
[02:07:13] they made mistakes.
[02:07:14] The first run.
[02:07:16] They go back.
[02:07:17] They make the same mistakes a second run.
[02:07:18] They go back and make the same mistakes the third run.
[02:07:20] That's when you got to start blaming yourself on your situation.
[02:07:25] That's why that's why I said you got to like build a relationship with yourself.
[02:07:28] You got to learn yourself.
[02:07:29] You got to trust.
[02:07:30] You got to learn to trust yourself.
[02:07:33] So spend some time doing that.
[02:07:35] And then when you go back and you start dealing with people because that's what you're
[02:07:41] going to watch out for is that you become a hard criminal.
[02:07:43] You don't trust anybody.
[02:07:44] Like you were talking about cops.
[02:07:47] You know, sometimes cops have a hard time because they're dealing with scumbags all
[02:07:50] day long.
[02:07:51] Right.
[02:07:52] And it builds up this mistrust of other people.
[02:07:56] So you don't want to have that happen.
[02:07:58] You want to be suspicious of people, but you want to be able to build trust once they
[02:08:02] prove themselves.
[02:08:03] So take those small steps and start to build up over time.
[02:08:08] Go just jump in and give someone 100% trust out of the gate.
[02:08:10] You don't know them.
[02:08:11] You don't know them.
[02:08:12] You know, back in the day, back in the day with old hardcore bands, you have this
[02:08:17] teacher that just said trust no one was like, yeah, that's legit.
[02:08:22] You don't go out of the gate with the big trust on somebody with important stuff.
[02:08:27] Don't do it.
[02:08:28] The good news is like I said, there's plenty of people out there that are good people
[02:08:33] that you can give all your trust to.
[02:08:37] Just take it slow, brother.
[02:08:38] Yeah.
[02:08:39] And it's so crazy how you just explained that so simple.
[02:08:43] And it makes total sense when you're in the situation though, you know, like you can't
[02:08:49] just detach and be like, what are the red flags that it's all you're too busy missing
[02:08:54] the person or whatever your disaster.
[02:08:56] So, and then I guess, but even though it's throwing things and looking at pictures, that's
[02:09:04] the worst.
[02:09:05] You should get out the picture and stare.
[02:09:06] I've seen guys do that on my bro.
[02:09:08] Give me that.
[02:09:09] Let me fill this away for you.
[02:09:10] It's not going to help.
[02:09:11] The person who, that was always to me was was explaining like, listen, because guys, what
[02:09:17] she was, no, no, she wasn't.
[02:09:21] That is a lie.
[02:09:22] That person that you put together in your head that you've assembled in your mind, that
[02:09:27] person doesn't exist.
[02:09:28] They don't exist.
[02:09:30] The person that you dealt with was a liar.
[02:09:34] Was unfaithful, was a cheater.
[02:09:36] That's the person.
[02:09:37] The person wasn't this person that you're putting forth in your mind.
[02:09:40] That person doesn't exist.
[02:09:41] So stop.
[02:09:42] But you don't understand the good time.
[02:09:44] Yeah.
[02:09:45] I don't know.
[02:09:46] Here's the trick.
[02:09:47] Okay.
[02:09:48] That person will lie at that person's cheater.
[02:09:53] What I kind of said there was, look, you don't understand the good time.
[02:09:55] That's a real part of it.
[02:09:56] For sure.
[02:09:57] It's like sure they did the sure she flats my tires when she gets measure all that.
[02:10:02] But the good times we have are so good.
[02:10:04] It's proof that it's not about the person.
[02:10:08] It's not about the person that you can see all the red flags and how they mistreat
[02:10:11] you from time to time or that you're beecher.
[02:10:14] It's about yourself and how you're sad now because of all these reasons.
[02:10:18] The trick comes with what?
[02:10:20] One of the tricks come with the same thing I said about drinking where it's your brain.
[02:10:24] Because it's like chemicals when you bond with someone in certain ways and it's different
[02:10:27] from, you know, it varies from person to person.
[02:10:29] But it's like, I think it's like oxytocin or something where it's, it's basically something
[02:10:35] that's what I'm going to, but you feel this bond with this specific person.
[02:10:40] That's why you have these feelings that even though this girl liked lies to you, you
[02:10:42] see her lying text message is on your phone right now.
[02:10:45] You're looking at, you mean why you still miss them.
[02:10:48] It's a trick because it's saying that you're emotional like well being is attached to this
[02:10:53] person kind of thing.
[02:10:55] And all the other stuff you just ignore.
[02:10:56] So just like I was saying with drinking, why no consciously, like I'm going to be hung
[02:11:02] over tomorrow.
[02:11:03] I won't get anything done.
[02:11:04] All this stuff.
[02:11:05] But why do I want to drink so bad right now?
[02:11:08] Kind of thing?
[02:11:09] And it's the same thing.
[02:11:11] The chemicals in your brain are telling you this girl is essential for you.
[02:11:15] For your well being.
[02:11:16] She's not.
[02:11:17] Yeah.
[02:11:18] Oh, that's a magic.
[02:11:19] That's a trick.
[02:11:20] Don't listen to your brain.
[02:11:21] Listen to me.
[02:11:22] That's not essential.
[02:11:23] That's what you've all.
[02:11:24] I'm telling you, but that's the logic.
[02:11:26] Which those chemicals blocking.
[02:11:29] I have seen so many situations where guys are just in what's horrible is I'm sitting
[02:11:36] here saying this.
[02:11:37] It's, you could be smacking someone in the face telling a move on and they're not going
[02:11:41] to listen.
[02:11:42] That's what that's all about.
[02:11:43] So you got to make that decision.
[02:11:44] That's, that's, that's, it's hard.
[02:11:46] And guys ruin their lives.
[02:11:47] I mean, you guys do too.
[02:11:48] Girls and guys, they ruin their lives.
[02:11:51] You know, with over somebody that is completely abusive whether mentally or physically,
[02:11:57] they're just completely abusive and they ruin their lives for this person.
[02:12:00] That person.
[02:12:01] And seeing my mind, I think it's because they build a person.
[02:12:05] They build a person on the framework of reality.
[02:12:09] They build a fantasy.
[02:12:10] And they're in love with that fantasy.
[02:12:12] And they want to keep it going.
[02:12:14] It's a fantasy.
[02:12:15] So stop and they get away.
[02:12:17] And they ignore like all the corner for red flags.
[02:12:19] And they remember the good times.
[02:12:21] Even if it's like like 10 minutes a week.
[02:12:24] They remember those good times.
[02:12:25] They ignore the red flags because of that, that, you know, that trick, that chemical
[02:12:32] trick in their brain.
[02:12:33] And so it reinforces that thing that they built.
[02:12:36] You know, that fantasy that they build.
[02:12:37] It's true.
[02:12:38] It's this big.
[02:12:39] The reality is this big.
[02:12:41] And look, the fantasy.
[02:12:42] And they just attached to it.
[02:12:44] You ever see a friend or whatever because I'm assuming you've never been in this situation.
[02:12:48] Like you ever had a friend where they're really into it.
[02:12:51] They're almost ruining their lives.
[02:12:52] They're in bad shape or whatever.
[02:12:54] And then whether it be all of a sudden or years later, whatever, they're thinking back
[02:12:57] and they're like, wow, is I think because the chemical trick, so to speak, where
[02:13:03] you're off.
[02:13:04] And then they can see all that logic that you're talking about.
[02:13:06] And like, oh my gosh, man.
[02:13:08] It's almost like you feel like you were a different person.
[02:13:13] You recover.
[02:13:14] You can't talk.
[02:13:15] And they just the fact that you can't talk any sense into people and they're in that
[02:13:18] situation.
[02:13:19] Is it trick?
[02:13:20] You gotta try and, yeah, it's hard.
[02:13:22] But I think knowing that that's it, it's a chemical in your brain that is tricking
[02:13:26] you.
[02:13:27] And it goes for a lot of stuff.
[02:13:28] Don't not.
[02:13:29] It's like all this that's tricking you.
[02:13:31] If you know like, hey, and you say, I'm not going to be tricked.
[02:13:34] I feel it.
[02:13:35] I feel this that I feel the sadness.
[02:13:36] I feel missing this person.
[02:13:38] But it's a trick, you know?
[02:13:39] Yeah.
[02:13:40] That helps.
[02:13:41] Totally helps.
[02:13:42] Like it.
[02:13:43] So move on, man.
[02:13:47] I know it's hard.
[02:13:48] Trust us.
[02:13:49] Speaking of moving on.
[02:13:50] Next question.
[02:13:53] Unless we want to talk about this more.
[02:13:56] No, I think you're going to move on.
[02:13:57] Okay.
[02:13:58] Exactly, right?
[02:13:59] Let's move on.
[02:14:02] In what circumstances do you recommend direct?
[02:14:04] Yes, I will hold on.
[02:14:05] Oh, and I'll move you.
[02:14:06] You stuck on it.
[02:14:07] No, but what's horrible is, man, people kill themselves in these situations.
[02:14:12] Yes, over a lie.
[02:14:13] Yeah.
[02:14:14] That's that's a metric.
[02:14:15] The trick.
[02:14:16] But it's a lie.
[02:14:18] And guys or girls get so distraught over this fantasy that doesn't exist.
[02:14:24] And what's really jacked up is if they could just move on, they'd find a reality
[02:14:29] that was actually congruent with what their desires are.
[02:14:32] It's out there.
[02:14:33] Yeah.
[02:14:34] You can see people all over the world.
[02:14:35] They're in relationships.
[02:14:38] Having fun from every level.
[02:14:40] Right?
[02:14:41] Yeah.
[02:14:42] But you get caught up in this mental trap and obsessing over a fantasy.
[02:14:48] It's a fantasy.
[02:14:49] Don't obsess over the fantasy, man.
[02:14:53] There's you can get over it.
[02:14:56] And there's plenty of other human beings out there that are awesome.
[02:14:59] So go find one of them.
[02:15:01] And in the meantime, hang out with your badass self.
[02:15:04] Right?
[02:15:05] Become a better person.
[02:15:06] Man, working out is a big one.
[02:15:08] For you.
[02:15:09] For sure.
[02:15:10] That's the 100%.
[02:15:12] Just get in the gym and get after it.
[02:15:14] Do you do yourselves everything?
[02:15:15] Yes.
[02:15:16] Lifting solves every leg.
[02:15:19] Okay.
[02:15:20] So what circumstances do you recommend direct to tech in combination with indirect?
[02:15:25] If any?
[02:15:26] Or do you have any examples?
[02:15:28] Yeah.
[02:15:29] So we talk about flanking all the time.
[02:15:30] I always recommend a combined attack.
[02:15:32] Right?
[02:15:33] If you only attack the flank, well, then the enemy is going to adjust the nigger for all
[02:15:37] the defenses there.
[02:15:38] Now it's not flanking anymore.
[02:15:39] Now it's the front.
[02:15:40] So you need to fain attack or at least you need to attack with some minor level of force
[02:15:47] directly so that the enemy has to defend what you're doing.
[02:15:50] And I mean, clearly when we're examples are pretty easy to come up with when we're
[02:15:56] doing raids like assaults on buildings, you're going to attack that building from multiple
[02:16:01] directions.
[02:16:03] At a minimum, at least you're going to set distractions on some of the other directions.
[02:16:08] And the same thing we were setting up over watches.
[02:16:10] Yeah, we're going to have a lot of times we'd have a main overwatch and we'd have a little
[02:16:14] flanker overwatch.
[02:16:15] So when you come to get us, you're going to pay.
[02:16:18] And like a classic L shaped assault.
[02:16:22] There's a reason it's called an L shaped shaped like an L you have a, you have a fire, a
[02:16:27] base position that's going to put down fire on the target and you have from the new
[02:16:32] element that's going to come in from the flank, but even with that, you, you have to do a base
[02:16:37] element and a maneuver element.
[02:16:39] There's a reason because you're going to, the base is going to put down fire and then
[02:16:44] the maneuver is going to maneuver it.
[02:16:45] So yes, those are clearly some of them.
[02:16:49] It's the same thing.
[02:16:50] Yes, it's the same thing in the business environment, right?
[02:16:53] In the business environment, if you're going to maneuver into a new market, you don't just
[02:17:00] walk away from your other market, right?
[02:17:02] You don't, if you're going to develop a new product, you don't throw away your old
[02:17:05] product, no, you keep, that's your base.
[02:17:07] You keep that going and then you flank.
[02:17:10] So it makes sense there.
[02:17:12] Yeah, so absolutely when you're going to attack, attack from both directions.
[02:17:20] And in fact, I do that most of the time.
[02:17:32] This actually isn't really a question.
[02:17:33] It's more of a comment.
[02:17:35] Yeah, I kind of perturbed it into a question.
[02:17:37] Yeah, you responded to the comment.
[02:17:39] Okay.
[02:17:40] Sure.
[02:17:41] You know, it's coming.
[02:17:42] Just want to say quick thanks.
[02:17:43] I struggle with the daily grind, trading days for dollars, but you help me make it happen.
[02:17:50] Yeah, and my comment was like, okay, well, thank you.
[02:17:54] I guess because I hope at the same time that you're grinding, that you're trading, that
[02:18:02] you're, I hope that you're not trading days for dollars long term because long term,
[02:18:08] that's a losing proposition, right?
[02:18:11] If you're grinding and it's not doing something you want to do if it's a grind that
[02:18:17] you can't embrace, then you've got to find a way out of that, right?
[02:18:23] You've got to find, you can't trade.
[02:18:25] You don't want to trade days for dollars because dollars don't mean anything.
[02:18:28] Days all you got.
[02:18:30] So you've got to find a way out.
[02:18:33] Now this does not mean you need to be rash about it.
[02:18:37] This doesn't mean tomorrow you walk in.
[02:18:39] I'm not doing this job anymore.
[02:18:40] I'm out.
[02:18:41] And now you're broke.
[02:18:42] No.
[02:18:43] Don't be rash and don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
[02:18:47] You don't do come up with a long term plan about what you want to do, how you want to do it,
[02:18:52] where you want to do it.
[02:18:54] And this might take one year or two years or five years.
[02:18:58] It might take five years to get to where you want to be.
[02:19:02] That's okay.
[02:19:03] That's fine.
[02:19:04] It's actually kind of cool.
[02:19:06] When you're grinding right now because you know there's something that you're working
[02:19:09] towards in the long run, that's actually awesome.
[02:19:13] But you've got to have an exit strategy.
[02:19:17] You've got to have an exit strategy.
[02:19:19] You've got to plan and figure out how much money it's going to take and what are you going
[02:19:22] to do?
[02:19:23] You're going to work two jobs.
[02:19:24] I'm going to save all my money right now.
[02:19:25] I'm going to invest here.
[02:19:26] You're going to pay off my mortgage.
[02:19:27] Whatever you're going to do so that you can get yourself in a position where you actually
[02:19:32] enjoy doing what you're doing.
[02:19:34] That's what you want.
[02:19:36] And the one other cool thing about this is like a seven.
[02:19:42] It's cool to grind.
[02:19:44] That's what we're here to do.
[02:19:45] You're here doing stuff.
[02:19:47] If you're not doing anything, well then what are you doing?
[02:19:50] So the other thing that's cool though about grinding and working is that when you get
[02:19:58] that freedom, that you work hard for, it's going to be so much more worth it.
[02:20:02] The discipline that you put into place to get to that freedom that you want, it makes
[02:20:06] that freedom so much more worth it.
[02:20:09] So I appreciate it.
[02:20:12] I'm glad you're grinding.
[02:20:14] I'm glad you're grinding hard, but don't just make that trade.
[02:20:17] It's not a square trade days for dollars, not a square trade.
[02:20:20] Get it back under your control.
[02:20:22] And we've had some really cool feedback on the podcast of people that have hit me up and
[02:20:26] said, hey, you told me to plan an extra strategy.
[02:20:29] I wish I could find this.
[02:20:30] The guy said, you told me to plan an extra strategy.
[02:20:33] He's like, that was whatever nine months ago.
[02:20:35] I saved my money.
[02:20:36] I just did this.
[02:20:37] Now I'm in another business.
[02:20:38] I'm kicking ass.
[02:20:39] Thank you.
[02:20:40] Right?
[02:20:41] So it can be done.
[02:20:42] It's one of the things about cool about being a human being.
[02:20:46] You got free will.
[02:20:47] You can make stuff happen.
[02:20:48] Yeah.
[02:20:49] Let's go make it happen.
[02:20:50] No man.
[02:20:51] And there's a lot of tricks there too.
[02:20:54] Where, you know, the disc hyperbolic disc counting when you basically go for the
[02:21:00] short term payoff in the expense of the long term payoff.
[02:21:07] So let's say you have an exit strategy for five years.
[02:21:11] It helps actually, this is like for real help night and night where if you look at that
[02:21:16] end exit strategy as like a, you know, a goal or whatever.
[02:21:20] And the time in between now and then is preparation time.
[02:21:24] That's all that is like prop.
[02:21:25] So a lot of times like I remember when I was working at the nightclub, that was a full
[02:21:29] on like, oh, and I could have called job all short term payoff stuff.
[02:21:32] Living kind of day to day week to week.
[02:21:35] I get my paycheck.
[02:21:36] I go hang out.
[02:21:37] Go work.
[02:21:38] Pay check hang out.
[02:21:39] So it's all just short term payoff.
[02:21:40] So I was in there for years.
[02:21:42] How many years?
[02:21:43] Seven.
[02:21:44] So I'm in no six.
[02:21:46] I was at the end of like almost seven.
[02:21:48] So yeah, nightclub.
[02:21:49] So I remember thinking when I was like over at or at a, I remember thinking, I feel like
[02:21:56] I wasted a lot of years.
[02:21:57] I think back now, I didn't because I learned a lot of psychological stuff.
[02:22:00] But I remember like reflecting and being like man, I spent, and yeah, I went to college
[02:22:06] all this stuff, really slack through college, I spent the same way.
[02:22:09] I just like, okay, I'll take this class as I may or may or may not pass it.
[02:22:12] Whatever.
[02:22:13] I want to work, I work on be cool, whatever.
[02:22:16] And I reflect and I think dang, I spent my life preparing for nothing really consciously.
[02:22:21] I mean, passively I did because I liked certain creative things and that, you know, materialized
[02:22:26] for sure, but actively, like consciously, I was never, you know, I was certain people
[02:22:31] they're like, I want to be at architect for sure.
[02:22:33] And that's it.
[02:22:34] And I'm doing it.
[02:22:35] And I know a lot of times if there's family history and certain things is like, they
[02:22:37] know, you know, and they wind up doing it a lot of times.
[02:22:42] But I reflected in thought, man, I'm here.
[02:22:45] I spent my life up to this point preparing for nothing in life.
[02:22:49] I know about working out, that's it.
[02:22:51] So a lot of times when you're making your, you find yourself in a grind that without, like,
[02:22:58] a exit strategy or something like that, a lot of times that will be the case.
[02:23:01] Like, I spent my life kind of preparing for nothing really.
[02:23:04] But that's the good thing how you're saying.
[02:23:06] You can take a year, you can take two years, five years, whatever, start preparing for
[02:23:10] that five years.
[02:23:11] And at the end, when the five years comes, you are prepared straight up.
[02:23:14] If you spend one year doing something, focus, like, hey, I got to get, could even
[02:23:18] something like, I'm going to play the piano.
[02:23:19] I don't know anything.
[02:23:20] Bowen arrow.
[02:23:21] I don't know.
[02:23:22] You spend one year focused on it.
[02:23:23] At the end of the year, you can be pretty prepared.
[02:23:25] Yeah.
[02:23:26] Compared to the average person.
[02:23:27] So you spend like two years, five years preparing whatever that exit strategy is.
[02:23:31] And you're for a prepared spend look at that time as this is preparation time.
[02:23:35] Yeah.
[02:23:36] And it's, if only somebody comes up to you, you've been working at the night club for a year
[02:23:46] and says, hey, echo, what are you going to do with your life?
[02:23:50] And you're like, well, you would immediately say, well, let me phrase that another way.
[02:23:55] Echo, are you planning to be a night club bouncer for the next 25 years?
[02:24:00] Your answer would clearly be no.
[02:24:01] Okay.
[02:24:02] So what are you getting ready for?
[02:24:03] Yeah.
[02:24:04] Sometimes this person is aware that they're in a grind.
[02:24:10] A lot of times people don't even realize that what they're doing, that they're, they're, they're
[02:24:16] marking time is what we call the military.
[02:24:18] You're marching, but you're not going anywhere.
[02:24:20] Yeah.
[02:24:21] You're feeling weird up and down.
[02:24:22] You're spinning your wheels.
[02:24:23] So think about that's a great point that you just made is what, what were you preparing
[02:24:27] for?
[02:24:28] If you would have been learned to play the piano, boom, you could be in the game right now.
[02:24:31] Right now, yeah.
[02:24:33] But so that's an important thing, especially when you start talking to people that are
[02:24:37] younger, you know, when they're 15, 16, 17 years old, because they're marking time.
[02:24:42] You know, they're having fun, yeah.
[02:24:44] But it's cool to have fun.
[02:24:46] Let's make sure we're making some progress and building some capacity to have a better
[02:24:50] future.
[02:24:51] All the time, what can you do to build capacity for your future?
[02:24:55] Hey, you know, you're Andy Stumpen, I talk about this.
[02:24:59] We didn't even recognize that there's anything else you could do besides being the teams.
[02:25:04] That's it.
[02:25:06] That's it.
[02:25:07] And that's kind of good because when you're young, teams don't want to be thinking about
[02:25:10] anything else.
[02:25:11] And luckily, the team's does give you preparation for other things in life, because you're
[02:25:16] in leadership position, you're going up, you're learning skills, you're learning, whether
[02:25:19] you're learning, parachuting, you're learning stuff, guys get out of the teams all the
[02:25:23] time they become cops, they become firemen, they all kinds of good jobs.
[02:25:27] If you're not in a job like that, you're in a job like a being a nightclub bouncer.
[02:25:31] Hey, it's a fun job, right?
[02:25:34] It's cool.
[02:25:35] You're having a good time.
[02:25:36] But let's make sure we have an extra strategy on that one.
[02:25:39] Right.
[02:25:40] Yeah.
[02:25:41] And it doesn't even necessarily mean like if I wanted to be ultimately, and I'm just saying
[02:25:44] being conscious of it, where if I wanted to be a nightclub owner or something perfect,
[02:25:49] I'll stay right in there.
[02:25:51] And but here's the difference is I'm not, I wasn't consciously spending that time preparing
[02:25:56] for anything.
[02:25:57] I was going for tomorrow, I was going for, you know, this weekend.
[02:26:00] That's all I was going for.
[02:26:02] And a lot of times, I mean in the nightclub it was because it was like a very recognizable
[02:26:07] payoff because it's fun and there's this party going on.
[02:26:11] But even in these grinds, like let's say I was working for a moving company one time.
[02:26:15] It was the same thing.
[02:26:16] I was looking for the weekend.
[02:26:17] It's sucked, but I was like the work part sucked, but I was looking forward to getting
[02:26:22] off work.
[02:26:23] Okay.
[02:26:24] The same dynamic, just kind of negative, you know, it's like negative person.
[02:26:28] The positive is the relief kind of thing.
[02:26:29] Well, that one, the moving company made you want to eat forced your hand to want to
[02:26:34] go do something else.
[02:26:35] It's like a different lifestyle.
[02:26:36] What is the nightclub?
[02:26:37] Yeah.
[02:26:38] You can get distracted and into that way.
[02:26:41] Like, hey, this is just going to be cool.
[02:26:43] Right.
[02:26:44] Yeah.
[02:26:45] So it's that carrot and the stick, you know, the nightclub was, I was just eating that carrot.
[02:26:48] That was running front of my face every day or every week or whatever.
[02:26:51] The moving company was like, I'm just trying to run away from the stick that's hitting
[02:26:55] me every day, kind of thing.
[02:26:57] So I guess it just depends on how much you hate sticks and like carrots.
[02:27:00] It's just so good.
[02:27:01] And like you said, we don't listen to our parents or we don't listen to our people around
[02:27:04] us.
[02:27:05] We don't listen to it.
[02:27:06] It becomes noise that's why even you saying, what do you, what do you want to do with
[02:27:09] your future bro?
[02:27:10] I've heard that since literally since I could understand English, what are you going to do
[02:27:13] with your, what are you doing in prepare for your future?
[02:27:15] What are you going to do?
[02:27:16] Do you see yourself doing this for, oh, yeah, no.
[02:27:18] I don't know.
[02:27:19] It's just, it's a meme or anything.
[02:27:21] Here at all the time, so it doesn't mean anything.
[02:27:23] That's why a lot of times it takes like something to either refraze it or straight up
[02:27:27] like show it to you somehow.
[02:27:29] You know where it hits you.
[02:27:30] Or like Dave was talking his, his, he was cruising and his dad died.
[02:27:34] And he got shown and we're like, okay, what am I doing?
[02:27:37] So good stuff to think about.
[02:27:39] Yeah, I mean personally, I just got tired of them.
[02:27:42] So yeah.
[02:27:43] Well, glad you did.
[02:27:47] So yeah.
[02:27:52] The next question.
[02:27:53] I think we had time for one more question.
[02:27:59] Yeah.
[02:28:00] Jocco.
[02:28:01] I have read your book, Extreme Ownership.
[02:28:02] My son and I listened to your podcast on the way home from hockey practice.
[02:28:06] And while I can see your message, I can't bring myself to employ it, which I would like
[02:28:11] to do so very badly, any suggestions.
[02:28:15] Well, everybody wants to employ extreme ownership and discipline so very badly.
[02:28:25] But everybody also wants it to be easy.
[02:28:30] Right, they want some secret power that just makes it happen.
[02:28:35] And they think that I hold the magic key that's going to make discipline the easiest thing in a world.
[02:28:46] Well, I can tell you that taking ownership of your life isn't easy.
[02:28:53] And living the life of discipline isn't easy.
[02:28:59] In fact, it's hard. That's why it works.
[02:29:06] And so if you want to employ discipline, there's only one way to do it.
[02:29:13] You employ discipline. Stop looking around for suggestions on how to employ discipline.
[02:29:21] Because I'll tell you that listening to this podcast is not going to give you discipline.
[02:29:28] Reading the book is not going to give you discipline.
[02:29:31] You have to impose discipline on yourself. You!
[02:29:37] And you do that with steps that you execute.
[02:29:45] Small steps get up early.
[02:29:48] Work out hard. Attack your daily tasks. Crush your job.
[02:29:52] Don't waste time on on meaningless activities.
[02:30:03] That's how you employ discipline.
[02:30:07] You get aggressive in making things happen.
[02:30:12] Be the discipline. That's it.
[02:30:17] That's it. It's that simple. And I'll say it again.
[02:30:20] If you want to live a discipline life, that's what you have to do.
[02:30:30] You have to be the discipline.
[02:30:40] And I think that's, I don't know what's got for tonight.
[02:30:45] So echo. Yes, I know you've been kind of stepping up the discipline and ownership.
[02:30:54] Won't you take some ownership right now of telling people how they can support
[02:31:00] this podcast if they want to. I will.
[02:31:05] Before supporting this podcast, I think we all should support ourselves in this way.
[02:31:11] Similar to like on the airplane. Like I said before, you know the airplane,
[02:31:15] oxygen mask. You got to put on yourself before you can help the infant.
[02:31:19] Not that the not that this podcast is an infant or nothing.
[02:31:22] Maybe it is one year or whatever. Anyway, you know what I mean.
[02:31:26] So if you're, I've been into working out more, more consistently.
[02:31:31] Would you say it like? Because I was, you know, I'm no stranger to the workouts.
[02:31:34] Um, I've been supplementing my workouts with supplements as you know.
[02:31:47] Crill oil just got some more boom. You know that when you get new crill oil,
[02:31:52] like I get it now before I run out, you know? I mean it seems obvious like oh,
[02:31:56] stock, yeah, you're in a dope now and you're prepared. I could. Yes exactly.
[02:32:02] Which is new for me. The buzz is still going. I'm out of crill oil.
[02:32:05] How order so now? The beginning of week. Yeah, no. Yeah, not an other.
[02:32:09] That's not going on anymore. Which is another demonstration of discipline. Really?
[02:32:13] You know, okay. We count that. Yeah, that's kind of counts. They daily discipline.
[02:32:17] Yeah, I know. They're in crill oil. Before you're out. That's it.
[02:32:20] That's it. Right. It's true. I like what you've done there.
[02:32:23] When it comes in, I'm not even out of my old, but when it comes in, it feels good.
[02:32:26] Oh, the crill oils in. It feels good to be prepared.
[02:32:29] Yeah. So yeah, you feel prepared. You are prepared. Yeah, you are.
[02:32:33] Feel it because you are straight up. Anyway, crill oil. If you don't know,
[02:32:39] what's crill oil? Oh, make a threes is it? Yeah.
[02:32:43] Anyway, it's real good for your joints. But really, that's the, I mean, omega threes. Good. Cool.
[02:32:49] But the question is, if you don't know, it's kind of like, what does that do for me?
[02:32:53] You know, what? How is that going to look? How's the omega threes going to benefit me?
[02:32:57] And in the crill oil situation, it's your joints, especially if you do a lot of pressing
[02:33:03] exercises and you get to. Actions say, especially I'm just saying, including, but not limited to hard
[02:33:09] pressing and you just exercise is like, were you done there? I'm telling you, man, it's a truth.
[02:33:15] Um, anyway, yeah, so get on that crill oil. If you have joint,
[02:33:19] a joint situation, really. Yeah. Or if you don't, or if you don't prevent it. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:33:25] I need to do more preventative stuff in my life. Yeah. It's funny. I'll take them.
[02:33:31] Like, I'll pour them out, you know. And they look like jelly beans. Yeah. I didn't realize they look like
[02:33:36] jumping my daughter. She's four. So I go jelly beans. But you smell them. No, she don't bite them. She, you
[02:33:42] know, you smell them. Yeah. It's smell like crill oil. Hey, I was on the plummet. So they made
[02:33:46] disgusting jelly beans. If you were seeing those before, they, they make jelly beans that taste like
[02:33:51] puked the taste like what like on purpose. Yeah. It's like a joke. So I was on the
[02:33:57] plummet in Iraq and somebody sent me a care package, a care package. Right. They were being funny.
[02:34:06] They sent me some of them bad tasting jelly beans. I didn't look at the label. I just opened them up
[02:34:11] because I had that any candy in a while. I wanted some candy. Yeah, I'm home. Took a mouthful.
[02:34:16] Just puked them all up in there. Dang. Is disgusting. Yeah. So the cruel oil jelly beans
[02:34:22] more or less the same thing. Yeah, you don't want to bite them at eat them. Yeah, the packaging is
[02:34:26] different. So they don't, you know, where can you get those things? Anyways. If you're interested in these
[02:34:36] cruel oil tablets, this is what they are. No, cruel oil, a little tablet to eat them. Did you
[02:34:42] em if you want, swallow it, my recommend because they smell and taste like cruel oil. Anyway,
[02:34:48] but they're good for your joints. Yeah, on it. Okay. So the really all the supplements you're going to
[02:34:53] want to take is from on it. So go to onit.com slash jockel if you want the 10% off. But
[02:35:02] like I said, back to the support part where okay. So you know how like when you work out and then
[02:35:08] you ever work on your like, a my knees or my elbow or something is bothering you? Yeah. It's like your
[02:35:14] whole body is working fine. You can bench a bunch. You can squat a bunch, but it's like your elbow. It's like,
[02:35:21] you know, you're only as strong as your weakest. L. Both knees, that's your weak length right there.
[02:35:31] That's what the cruel oil does. That's what it alleviates. You know? That's important is what I'm
[02:35:36] seeing. Yeah. Yeah. He's the thing. I didn't really understand that. But I've done it where I've taken
[02:35:43] like ibuprofen to like okay. It's because it's just pain. Right. It's not like I'm going to
[02:35:48] pull like if it's your muscle or something like a straightened injury. Yeah, it's like a pain,
[02:35:53] but it'll inhibit because you have a little bit of it. It's just side to start taking cruel oil.
[02:35:58] I mean, I know I'd take and I was like, yeah, you should try it or did I say that or did you start
[02:36:01] trying on your own? It was you. But I heard about it. You know, my wife's my father-in-law would
[02:36:07] I was cruel oil. It was a bit of a fish oil. I was like cool. I don't even take fish oil. So they didn't
[02:36:11] really mean much to me. I left nothing. I'm looking for games bro. Yeah. I'm not coming back here.
[02:36:17] Chances to you. Yeah, bro. I leave me alone. But yeah, that was it. And you mentioned it. And
[02:36:23] you know, you're not hobbling around in pain or on the susahe of Jocco doesn't let me go try
[02:36:30] and then I got it from a guy that was like a power lifter really strong and he was, you know,
[02:36:35] 56 years old when I met him. He was a great shape and I asked like what do you do? He said,
[02:36:40] grow oil. Yeah. I told that's not the only thing. He also works out hard and all that stuff.
[02:36:45] But yeah, it's a good thing to know about. That's really, that was kind of my point really.
[02:36:49] You know, like my, you know, you can be strong, but when you got your elbow jacked up from
[02:36:54] being strong, really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, you got to patch that little thing naturally.
[02:36:59] Like, because it's not like you're putting quarters, quarters on shots or in my case, I'd be
[02:37:04] proficient just to mask the pain so you can get gains. It's different. It's like a whole thing.
[02:37:10] I was telling Taylor. I was talking with him. We rolled for a little, did we? No, we didn't.
[02:37:15] We were just talking and I told him how old that was and he was like, what, you know,
[02:37:20] it's the krill oil man. Notice I didn't mention how old I am. Yeah.
[02:37:26] Nonetheless, if you like krill, I actually there's some good to, oh, you know, the part. Okay. So there's this total strength and performance.
[02:37:33] Hmm. To, I was looking at that because it's really interesting, like stuff in the clinical studies. It's over time.
[02:37:40] So it is considered a pre workout. So typically when people,
[02:37:45] we should take it consistently consistently. Yeah. You, your gains, it's like a cumulative effect.
[02:37:51] You know what I mean? Just like krill oil though, really. Like, because here's why I got tricked. I didn't get tricked.
[02:37:56] But here's why I misunderstood.
[02:38:00] Is usually a pre workout has like caffeine and stimulants in a particular, you know?
[02:38:04] And should all have like other stuff allegedly? I don't know. But usually you take a pre workout.
[02:38:09] So you get fired up physiologically to go lift, get a big pump, get all this, you know,
[02:38:15] this performance stuff or whatever from the caffeine and all that.
[02:38:17] Total strength and performance doesn't have caffeine. Yeah. So it's a different, it's a whole different
[02:38:24] kind of system that's giving you, you know, benefits. It feels good though. Yeah. But,
[02:38:29] true tech too, same thing where you can take it that day and you'll feel it that day. Because it,
[02:38:33] you know, helps you. That's why oxygen. Like I said, I double, I double dip on those things.
[02:38:37] I get all of it all up on it and down. Actually, my trip to South Africa didn't have either.
[02:38:42] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. What do you call it when you don't take the supplement?
[02:38:47] Going slick, I guess. Yeah. We got some good rolls out there too. Yeah. I was, I was
[02:38:54] thanking myself. Like the guys that were down there.
[02:38:58] Chef and Richie, they're like, hey, you know tomorrow night because I went rolled the first night
[02:39:03] at their fight fit and the the first night, you know, we trained a little bit, you know,
[02:39:08] what we were hanging out and then they said, hey, when you come back tomorrow, we're just going to do like
[02:39:12] 10 rounds, 10, five minute rounds. I was like, okay, cool. And then I got the home. The next morning
[02:39:17] or the next afternoon we were heading over to I said, yeah, I wouldn't mind having a little bit of
[02:39:21] shrimp tack right now. And I had to go slick. Good times. Hey, man. You know, and hey, going slick,
[02:39:28] that's cool. But you don't have to. Yeah. No. I mean, we didn't want to. I wanted to have a little
[02:39:34] bit of a shrimp tack right there. Yes. So some of us, we don't want that be. You know, so we're
[02:39:39] going to take this shrimp tack. We're going to take the the crew to me again back to not to go to
[02:39:44] deep on the crew oil. But that one, I think is like an essential. Let's like in every day thing,
[02:39:48] you know, like people they'll drink coffee every single day. Yeah, I mean. And cool. I say cool
[02:39:54] drink coffee, but it should be like that because the crew is way more beneficial than the coffee.
[02:39:59] I think coffee is more like it's like a immediate thing. Anyway, anyway, like this stuff,
[02:40:07] these cool supplements, good. The best supplements everyone knows this already go to on a
[02:40:12] duck home slash jockel for 10% off. Also a good way to support the podcast is the Amazon
[02:40:21] click through all all that is is before you do Amazon shopping, click through the website. I got a
[02:40:26] better little Amazon shopping banner. Got the dot com got the dot co dot UK one and I want to say
[02:40:34] the German you want to. Over there on the side of the website, jockelpodcast.com and also up top on the
[02:40:42] navigation menu. Easy to find is what you're saying. Easyer than it was before for sure. Let's go.
[02:40:47] And then on the store, I think it's like in the support tab. Anyway, before you do your Amazon
[02:40:52] shopping, click on that first, then do your shopping. We're gonna go to what you're buying.
[02:40:59] I always make the sodium in the water reference because really that's what it is. Really,
[02:41:03] that's the best reference. I mean the best analogy, you know. It is, bro. Okay, I said okay.
[02:41:09] Yeah, but the way the tone was like this, but here's the thing that's a big deal.
[02:41:15] Small piece of sodium. Drop it in water, see what happens. Do you see what happens? Actually,
[02:41:21] they don't do that. Look at look up a video. See what happens. That's good. And that's what you are
[02:41:25] really. You do this a lot. I think the biggest thing is people don't people think it's not a big deal.
[02:41:31] That's the thing. Yeah, tell the little piece of sodium. Tell that to the sodium.
[02:41:34] Yeah, 20 hits water. Yeah, you go and you do small action takes two set literally two seconds.
[02:41:40] Boom. Click and big reaction. Good support. Good reinforcements.
[02:41:46] What if you kind of needed some reinforcements and it took just one click of a thing.
[02:41:50] And it brought just a full-on reinforcement into your situation. That's good, right?
[02:41:54] Yeah, that's why action be. Sounds good to me. Anyway, that's what the Amazon click through does.
[02:41:58] And that's how you do it. Go to jokpacass.com. Click on the Amazon.
[02:42:02] I'm bad at me for you. Do the shopping. Boom. Instance support.
[02:42:08] And you can subscribe to the podcast on whatever iTunes provider platform you use iTunes.
[02:42:15] Stitcher. Go, play. And others. Oh, yes, subscribe. If you haven't already. Leave a review.
[02:42:24] If you're in the mood. If you were moved by jokkoswords or echoeswords or echoeswords.
[02:42:33] Leave a review. You'll see what up.
[02:42:35] Um, also subscribe to our YouTube channel. We have a YouTube channel.
[02:42:43] I know a lot of people already know that. And a lot of people have YouTube channels.
[02:42:48] Yeah. How do you distinguish which one's good and which one's not good?
[02:42:51] Right. Well, here's a good thing about subscribing to YouTube channels.
[02:42:55] Is you just click subscribe. And if you, I guess it, you know, it shows the new videos in your
[02:43:00] feed. You can elect to have a notification or not. It's good to have a notification. And it doesn't
[02:43:06] annoy you because for something to annoy you, it would have to happen a lot. But since you don't
[02:43:10] make a lot of videos. I do know. Actually, you plan on what you mean by a lot. So at least two
[02:43:16] week will be uploaded. Oh, one will be the podcast. One will be something else. Okay. I think that is a
[02:43:22] that you just threw down the gauntlet. Now, I'm going to track your videos. I know, real. Do it.
[02:43:27] Hey, if echo doesn't put up at least two videos a week from here on out, we can attack him on the
[02:43:33] interwebs verbally. Please. Yeah, man. No, hey, I'm accountable. You know. Okay. Yeah, you just made yourself
[02:43:40] accountable. Sounds good. There it is. But yes, it's a little bit of an extreme order. Anyway,
[02:43:48] good thing about subscribing to YouTube. You can just subscribe like anything else. It's not like
[02:43:52] these, you know, these marketers who email you stuff. Yeah. It's like, hey, unsubscribe. Do like
[02:43:57] you. I want one can I chicken with for you four years ago. You're still emailing me. I didn't
[02:44:03] need some. That's good. Yeah. Stop. Why do I have the option to unsubscribe to your email list
[02:44:09] when I didn't even subscribe to it? Get away from this. Yeah. So it's not like that kind of where you
[02:44:13] click unsubscribe. And then they email you again, by the way. This is just a confirm. We're sorry to see
[02:44:19] you go. Why this? Why? And then you got to fill out. It's not like that. And then six and you're,
[02:44:24] you will stop receiving email in six to eight weeks. Yeah, or something. Something. Yeah. It's not like that.
[02:44:28] Unsubscribe done. Problem solved. And then you'd re-subscribe. You know, it's totally up to you.
[02:44:33] Empower yourself on the subscribing situation. That's YouTube. So yeah, some videos on there will
[02:44:40] we'll try to keep you somewhat occupied on there. It's good. Anyway, and also Jocco as a store.
[02:44:47] It's called JoccoStore. JoccoStore.com. If you wear shirts and you want to represent that way,
[02:44:54] I think we're going to put some new shirts on there. Some new stuff. You know what I did? What we did,
[02:44:59] really, is people listen to you, Jocco. I listen to you, but the good thing about you is actually
[02:45:07] actually one of the reasons I listened to is because you listen to me and you listen to others.
[02:45:12] You know, we listen to others. So people will like, hey, XYZ, make that into a shirt or you know,
[02:45:20] hey, you said to make that into a shirt or they'll just come up with their own thing,
[02:45:23] you know, prioritize X-X out and whatever make it a shirt. So during that listening,
[02:45:30] like, kind of, we kind of just took it to heart in a real general way and there's some new stuff.
[02:45:36] I like that. It's good. It's good options. But you can't, we can't make every shirt that
[02:45:41] everything. No, and I just don't that wouldn't be practical. No, wouldn't be. And some,
[02:45:47] I mean, I got to be honest. Plus I say, I say some cool stuff. I also say some dumb stuff.
[02:45:51] Some of my picks and dumb stuff. Yeah, or, you know, something that maybe wouldn't translate
[02:45:56] onto a shirt that someone would actually wear other than maybe a handful of people. Then we'll just say
[02:46:02] some sure that it is make more sense than others. We'll just say that. But nonetheless, we are listening,
[02:46:09] and this is going to be a result of it with some, you know, maybe some new stuff. There's also some patches.
[02:46:16] Cool patches. The Velcro ones and whatnot. Hoodies, rash guards, performance.
[02:46:23] I think we're doing another rash guard design as well. Not going to get rid of the old ones.
[02:46:26] The current one is not on scope too. Nonetheless, just more options, you know, guys want to get
[02:46:32] after it and have different looks. Maybe even have two in rotation that look different, boom.
[02:46:36] So yeah, we did that anyway. All these things you can look at them. If you like what you see,
[02:46:41] want to, three things, whatever, however many things get it, support that way. Good way to support.
[02:46:47] It's not your good way, yeah. And you're representing. So it's kind of like, it's like an
[02:46:54] official way to kind of jump in the game, you know, you know what I mean? I do. I saw a member,
[02:47:02] um, I don't know if, yeah, you met him right? Yeah, Sam, he came in the gym and shaved head.
[02:47:07] Yeah, Sam. So he was just sitting there in the, done in the lounge. I'm just saying,
[02:47:11] I'm going to get something to my car real quick. I see the shirt. Of course, I'm going to say
[02:47:17] something, but before I say anything, I'm thinking about my look at this guy representing hard.
[02:47:21] And the thing is, I don't know, you know, you know, the guy having met or whatever, and you
[02:47:25] get that feeling like that guy's representing. And that's the feeling you get really, you know, when
[02:47:29] you see somebody in the wild with it? Well, I actually figured out I got a little story to tell
[02:47:34] somebody hit me up and they said, hey, I was out in the wild saw someone with a, with a, with a
[02:47:42] jockel podcast, t-shirt on walked over to him through the bone of feedies on him. He's a bone of feedies.
[02:47:49] One of these is like, you ever seen like a spy movie where I come up and I say, it is cold and dark
[02:47:55] in the winter and the first in response in March, it will be warmer. And now we know we're going to go.
[02:48:01] So what was the bone of feedies? This dude walked up to the other dude with a trooper t-shirt on.
[02:48:06] And he said, good evening, Echo. And boom, they knew what was up. So I think that's become the
[02:48:13] official bone of feedies of jockel podcast. If you, if you see someone in the wild,
[02:48:18] and you, you know, my piece of situation where you can't just get crazy, you just got to walk
[02:48:23] up and say, good evening, Echo. And then they'll, then you can do your burpees.
[02:48:26] Yeah.
[02:48:27] Yeah.
[02:48:28] Exactly. And that feeling is real though. That feeling that I had when you, when you see
[02:48:34] it's like, oh, yeah, you kind of know, you know, anyway, it's cool out. We'll add it later.
[02:48:39] If you will. Anyway, also psychological warfare. If you don't know what psychological warfare,
[02:48:45] this is what it is. It's an album with tracks. And this is, they're not music tracks.
[02:48:51] They're not jockel's hardcore band tracks. Bronson's Children's Tracks. It's not that.
[02:48:58] What it is is little, they're not even excerpts because they're just low and tracks for specific
[02:49:04] things. And those things are, if you're feeling weakness at any point, while you're trying to consistently
[02:49:09] get after it wake up early or work out or it's a little thick tier mental QRF quick reaction force.
[02:49:16] Yeah. That's a weakness sitting you cool. Here we go. Boom.
[02:49:19] Go on QRF. There they are. I kind of look at it as like a spot.
[02:49:23] Yeah. Like when you're those those people that don't lift a spot is when someone helps you.
[02:49:27] Yeah. Lift whatever your weight you're trying to lift. And not to split here, but really it's not
[02:49:32] necessarily there to help you. It's, I mean, ultimately, yeah. General Metcher, you don't go down.
[02:49:36] Yes, exactly. So if you're slipping, if you want to really get after it, I'm going to work
[02:49:40] up every single day, no days off one year. Big, big tall order right there. Just like if I'm, I'm going
[02:49:47] to bench this 10,000 pounds, whatever. I'm going to make two videos a week. I'm going to bench
[02:49:57] more than I've been to before, but I'm going to go for my one rep max. It makes sense to have
[02:50:03] a spot. You might get that one rep max and not need the spot, but it's there. If you fail,
[02:50:08] like if it's like too much or it feels like too much or that guy's there to just nudge you,
[02:50:12] as much as you need. That's really hot. This is just how I look at it.
[02:50:16] That's accurate. Yeah, potentially right. Yeah. So the base what it is is you put the track on,
[02:50:21] like, oh, shoot. I'm about to skip this workout. I'm about to make this workout day a rest day.
[02:50:26] No, you're not. Yeah, you don't want to do that. No, you can rest tomorrow. Today work.
[02:50:30] Rest on the day that you have scheduled for rest for real and your thing. That don't just
[02:50:34] impromptu making a rest day because you feel like it's not how it works. If you need a little spot
[02:50:39] in doing that, you listen to a track called workout, get what, what workout? I don't know. One of
[02:50:45] the workouts spots because there's a couple for workout. There's one for waking up. There's three
[02:50:50] for waking up. Yeah, see? And there's one for kind of sticking to the diet plan. You know,
[02:50:55] like there's that kind of stuff. You know, yeah, you put it on in. There's one for getting
[02:51:00] for forcing yourself through creative blocks. Yeah. Right. Which kind of sounds like impossible,
[02:51:07] but you tell you, who gets possible? I would say I will say that this will get you through
[02:51:14] 100% of the time. Like I, I'm trying to imagine the feeling that you would that would result in your
[02:51:22] heart if you listen to this and you still skip the workout. Oh, yeah, it's hard to
[02:51:29] fathom the feeling you would have. Anyway, it's very helpful and a real good spot, you know,
[02:51:34] and a stock will talk me. So it's like kind of there with you, you know? Like that you want there.
[02:51:38] That's my opinion. Anyway, it's called psychological warfare. It's on iTunes. So if you just do a
[02:51:43] search psychological warfare, juggle willing, get that. You can support that way, but
[02:51:48] this is one where this is real good support for yourself. Make it your ringtone, the wake up,
[02:51:53] wake up, yeah, clear it with your wife first. Yeah. You could have some problems. Spouses do not
[02:51:57] like yeah, that's a good one. And it happened happens to be number one still on iTunes. That's awesome.
[02:52:05] Yeah, since day one by the way. Yes, that's thank you for the support and one that one. All right,
[02:52:13] while you're on Amazon, real quick, this is a couple of things I have to cover. I've legally
[02:52:19] have to do this. Juggle white tea where it looks like we have to go put a warning on it because there's
[02:52:25] a little situation going on. Gotta, a, a, a trooper hit me up on Twitter. And this is what he said,
[02:52:33] warning. I started drinking jocoti and the wife became pregnant. Should be on the label. So
[02:52:41] he was also wondering if the child would arrive as a brown belt in jiu-jitsu. Now,
[02:52:48] to be honest with you, we should have tested this further. You know, we should have tested this further.
[02:52:53] We didn't and we aren't 100% sure if babies produced under the influence of jockel white tea will
[02:53:04] be a brown belt. They will be a purple belt, minimum, but they might not be a brown belt. But
[02:53:12] fertility, yep, is confirmed prenatal jiu-jitsu skills, confirmed and confirmed to a level of about
[02:53:21] 147% so order the tea, make it drink it. It tastes so good, tastes like victory. So you can get that.
[02:53:31] You can, you can also preorder where the warrior kid book. Now Uncle Jake is trying to explain to Mark
[02:53:40] what a warrior is. So he gives him a notebook that has various warrior codes in it. He's got the
[02:53:47] Ranger Creed. He's got the seal code. He's got the Marine Corps Corps values. He's got the seven
[02:53:53] virtues of buchito. It's the samurai code. He's got the code of shivalry for knights. He's got the
[02:54:01] Viking laws. He's got all these like warrior codes in there so that young Mark knows what is up.
[02:54:07] And we should all, we can all kind of need to know what is up with some of them. The Vikings,
[02:54:14] you know, you might not think you might think yourself out of Viking laws. What kind of liking teach me?
[02:54:19] Why would I need to know Viking laws? How could I possibly get anything? So you get way the warrior
[02:54:24] kid you order it. You will, you start going through the Viking laws. Let me tell you what they say.
[02:54:28] Viking laws. Be brave and aggressive. Be direct. Grab all opportunities. Use varying methods of attack.
[02:54:37] Be versatile and agile. Attack one target at a time. Don't plan everything in detail. Use top
[02:54:45] quality weapons. Be prepared. Keep weapons in good condition. Keep in shape. Find good battle
[02:54:52] comrades. Agree on important points. Choose one chief. Be a good merchant. Find out what the market
[02:55:04] needs. Do not promise what you can't keep. Do not demand overpayment. Arrange things so that you can
[02:55:14] return. Keep the camp in good order. Keep things tidy and organized. Arrange to enjoyable activities
[02:55:25] that strengthen the group. Make sure everybody does useful work. Consult all members of the group
[02:55:33] for advice. Hey, just liking laws 1200 years old. Is there anything you might be able to get
[02:55:40] out of that? Absolutely. We can all take something away from that. So, bunch of warrior codes in there.
[02:55:47] And by the way, Mark, he ends up writing his own warrior kid code. Yeah. The kind of kid code that I
[02:55:55] wish I would have lived by. You know what I'm saying? Yes. It's going to help some people out.
[02:56:00] Also, just release. We got the discipline equals freedom field manual coming. This is what you're
[02:56:05] asking for a book. Pretty much represents what we talk about this on this podcast. Thoughts and action.
[02:56:12] The thoughts are aligned with what you hear on this podcast. The actions are more detailed than
[02:56:18] what I say on the podcast. More granular, more specific workouts of food intake, martial arts. So,
[02:56:24] discipline equals field, discipline equals freedom field manual. You can get some of that.
[02:56:31] You can also pick up a couple copies of extreme ownership. Of course,
[02:56:36] lessons of combat leadership that we talk about on this podcast by the way, from Henry the fifth
[02:56:41] to HR McMaster, spans a pretty good time. And those lessons of combat leadership translate
[02:56:49] to business and life and then laid out in extreme ownership, very simply and very clearly. So,
[02:56:55] what you do is you order one for you and then you order one for everyone in your chain of command,
[02:56:59] up and down. Get some. Mr. May 4th and 5th, New York City, Mary at Marquis,
[02:57:08] Register now, Book of Utah, Book of Travel. Come and get it. You know, it's morning PT. That's what
[02:57:13] we start with. Full days of leadership training, leadership discussion, Q&A, a lot of Q&A. Also,
[02:57:20] just hanging out, we're going to we're going to be sitting there with you, eating lunch, eating
[02:57:26] breakfast, whatever. Life's going to be there. J.P. He's going to be there. Dave Burke, who's coming
[02:57:33] on the podcast, is also going to be there. A bunch of you all are going to be there. That's one
[02:57:38] of the best things about it. Meet everybody. Then of course, Eccles is going to be there. We
[02:57:42] knew that. It's going to be cruising. So, come on that. We're in the game in that and we're
[02:57:52] going to be in the game with you. Getting stuff solved. And while you're waiting for that,
[02:57:58] if you want to get in the game with us now, you can find us on the interwebs,
[02:58:02] run to some Twitter, Instagram, and beyond that Facebook, we're there to Eko is at Eko Charles
[02:58:10] and I am at J. Go Willink and thanks for listening to this podcast. Thanks for supporting the
[02:58:21] podcast. We appreciate it. We're glad we have you out there in the game with us and to the military
[02:58:27] personnel that are out in the field right now in harm's way, protecting freedom around the world.
[02:58:37] Thank you to the police and law enforcement that are out on the streets right now,
[02:58:45] protecting us from criminals. Thank you. And of course, to the firefighters, EMTs and other
[02:58:54] first responders that are waiting right now for us to call when an emergency takes place.
[02:59:03] Thank you. And everyone else that is out there doing your best,
[02:59:10] builders and biologists, farmers and framers, scientists, and sales reps, engineers, and educators.
[02:59:20] Leaders and frontline sled dogs. Thanks all of you for taking ownership of your life
[02:59:34] for being the discipline and for getting out there into the world with a clenched jaw and a
[02:59:41] furl-d-brow in getting after it. And so until next time, this is Eko and J. Go Out.