Jocko Podcast 43 - w/ Echo Charles: Glory of the Trenches

2016-10-05T06:10:02Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:22 - "The Glory of the Trenches", by Coningsby Dawson - Book review and analysis. Leadership, discipline, cowardice, not giving up. 1:32:17 - Jocko Tea, Internet, Jocko Store, Onnit Stuff 1:59:28 - Closing

AI summary of episode

You know, we do have a definite tendency to do that in literature or people that write about war, they want to write about, you know, they make everyone look like the best guy ever. But you know, we're just trying to let you know, we hear on, you know, the listeners and the, and the troopers here, we all want to see a little bit more activity. Like I said, it may be even more into tea because it's like, you know, it's like you get into, well, I did. But you know how like you're like, you know, it's a mellow night. The good many of our trenches were directly on filet and if you don't know what that is, on filet is like, if you can imagine a line of people and you are shooting down the line of people and how much more exposed you are in that situation. So we know, I mean we know this is a world war one, we know it's an absolute nightmare. It doesn't matter how good your tactics are, it doesn't matter how good of a leader you are because when we say go you're going to get your troops you're going to do what we say you're going to go over the top of your charge machine guns and guys you're going to get mode down. You know, again, from my experience in the in the in the in the seal teams, you know, when I went in there was no war going on, I kind of thought that there was, but there wasn't. And I was like, I'm going to do like how you do put it on ice and see if I can't get my refresh on, you know, outside it, whatever. He said, you know, you say that, but I've also heard you describe war as horrible and I kind of gave him an answer about, you know, I asked him, I said, hey, if they've never known you, but survived cancer. Now this is a pretty interesting piece where he goes back to New York where like I said he had spent some time there and he's talking a little about what it's like in New York. She'll be like, it's like a comfort zone thing, you know. And some people been like, whoa, some people emailed and said, whoa, is it really like, jocquo, you made this tea? So he's saying, okay, a lot of guys, they're like, hey, you know what, I'm kind of scared. But now what I know is I get to talk to people and I get to get to grow my knowledge from other people who, who can communicate things, who ask really good questions that I got to get research So that's like, you see that, in this modern day, you know, I'm talking about how different it was back then, but maybe it was as different as I think it is. Like theoretically from Amazon's perspective, like the Nazis, they thought, man, these guys are getting after this. Obviously we talked about World War I and the less he's not the only person that felt this way about things and if this wasn't at least a fairly normal attitude to have there's no way that World War I could have continued on the way it did because people would have been saying no this is ridiculous. You know, where, because people on Twitter and stuff, they'll be like, hey, can you just isolate this one? And people are like, I don't know, no time for you. Then, you know, I just want to let you know. This, what happens in the trenches is like a religion, it's like a spiritual thing. And when I meet people, all of a sudden, it's like, it's like friends that you have inside jokes with. And in the meantime, you know, again, I know we got to- I'm going to some highlights, so there's a little bit of a skip, you know, time here as they move towards the front.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 43 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink.
[00:00:11] All the lads have gone out to play at being soldiers far away.
[00:00:17] They won't be back for many a day and some won't be back any morning.
[00:00:24] All the lasses who laughing were when hearts were light and lads were here.
[00:00:30] They go sad-eyed wandering hither in there.
[00:00:34] They pray and watch for the morning.
[00:00:39] Every house has its vacant bed.
[00:00:43] Every night when sounds are dead, some woman yearns for the pillowed head of him who marched
[00:00:50] out in the morning.
[00:00:53] Of all the lads who've gone out to play, there's some or a turn and some who will stay.
[00:01:01] There's some will be back most any day.
[00:01:06] But some won't wake up in the morning.
[00:01:12] Good evening echo.
[00:01:14] Good evening.
[00:01:16] That poem right there is called the lads away and it's from a book called The
[00:01:23] Glory of the Trenches.
[00:01:26] That corneams be Dawson.
[00:01:29] And actually got this book in original copy of this book from a trooper from Jesse.
[00:01:39] Trooper up from Canada and he sent me this book and like I said it's the actual first
[00:01:42] printing beautiful copy and it has that smell.
[00:01:47] The old book must be smell.
[00:01:54] It's one of those books where you can actually smell the age and you can smell the lessons
[00:01:57] learned and you can smell the wisdom inside of it.
[00:02:03] It's a different view.
[00:02:04] It's a different feel and I found it to be very fascinating.
[00:02:12] The intro to the book is actually written by Dawson's father.
[00:02:18] So the intro to the book, Dawson is the guy that wrote the book, Cunning's B. Dawson is
[00:02:22] the guy that wrote the book.
[00:02:23] Well his dad wrote the intro to the book and he kind of kicks it off and here's some
[00:02:28] of the highlights of that.
[00:02:30] He says I've already stated the conditions under which this book of my sons was produced.
[00:02:36] He was wounded in the end of June 1917 in the fierce struggle before lens.
[00:02:42] He was at once removed to a base hospital later to a military hospital in London there
[00:02:48] was engraved danger of amputation of the right arm, but this was happily avoided.
[00:02:54] As soon as he could use his hand he was commingdeared by the Lord High Commissioner of
[00:02:58] Canada right and important paper detailing the history of the Canadian forces in France
[00:03:03] and flanders.
[00:03:06] He goes on to talk about how they came up with the name of the book and they go through
[00:03:11] a couple different titles and they settle on this title, the glory of the trenches.
[00:03:17] Lastly we decided on the glory of the trenches as the most expressive of his aim.
[00:03:23] He felt that a great deal too much had been said about the squalder, filth, discomfort and
[00:03:30] suffering of the trenches.
[00:03:31] Now clearly that stuff that I've talked about.
[00:03:34] And so this should have tell you that's what I'm talking about.
[00:03:36] This is a different take on World War I.
[00:03:40] Because he's saying look we've heard enough about the squalder that felt this comfort
[00:03:42] I'm going to talk about the glory of the trenches.
[00:03:45] He pointed out that a very popular war book which we were reading had six paragraphs and
[00:03:51] the first 60 pages which described an unpleasant detail, the verminous condition of the men.
[00:03:57] Because if this were the chief thing to be remarked concerning them, he held that it was
[00:04:02] a mistake for a writer to lay too much on the too much stress on the horrors of war.
[00:04:09] The effect was bad physiologically.
[00:04:12] It frightened the parents of soldiers.
[00:04:15] It was equally bad for the enlisted man himself for it created a false impression in his mind.
[00:04:20] We all knew that war was horrible, but as a rule the soldier thought little of his
[00:04:25] future in this lot.
[00:04:29] The real soldier thoughts were concerned with other things.
[00:04:33] He was engaged in spiritual acts and this is what I'm talking about.
[00:04:37] This is a different cut.
[00:04:40] He was accomplishing spiritual purposes as truly as the marker of faith and religion.
[00:04:47] He was moved by spiritual impulses, the evocation of duty, the loyal dependence of
[00:04:54] the comradeship, the spirit of sacrifice, the complete surrender of the body to the will of
[00:05:01] the soul.
[00:05:03] This was the side of war which men needed most to recognize.
[00:05:06] They needed it not only because it was the true side, but because nothing else could
[00:05:11] Kindle and sustain the enduring flame of heroism in men's hearts.
[00:05:16] So he's looking at this, you know, it's called the glory of the trenches.
[00:05:20] This, what happens in the trenches is like a religion, it's like a spiritual thing.
[00:05:26] Which another thing that drew me to this is because, you know, I talk all the time about
[00:05:30] how there's the most beautiful things in war.
[00:05:33] I mean, there's the most horrible things, but there's also these beautiful things.
[00:05:36] And so I can see he's very focused on what those things are.
[00:05:42] While some aired in exhibiting nothing but the brutality of war, others aired by sentimentizing
[00:05:49] war.
[00:05:50] He admitted that it was perfectly possible to paint a portrait of a soldier with an aura
[00:05:55] of a saint, but it would not be a representative portrait.
[00:06:00] It would be eclectic, the result of the selection and the elimination.
[00:06:06] So he's saying like on the one hand, you get these books that paint this crazy brutal side
[00:06:11] of war, the other side you get them painting soldiers as saints.
[00:06:15] And neither want to show which I will totally agree with.
[00:06:18] You know, we do have a definite tendency to do that in literature or people that write
[00:06:23] about war, they want to write about, you know, they make everyone look like the best guy ever.
[00:06:26] None of us are.
[00:06:28] None of us are.
[00:06:30] We all have faults.
[00:06:33] Back to the book, the ordinary soldier is an intensely human creature with an endearing
[00:06:38] blend of faults and virtues.
[00:06:41] The romantic method of portraying him not only misrepresented him, but its result is far
[00:06:47] less impressive than a portrait painted in the firm lines of reality.
[00:06:54] So they do all this to make the guy look like a saint, but what's real is actually more
[00:06:59] amazing.
[00:07:00] There's an austere grandeur in the reality of what he is and does which needs no fine
[00:07:07] gilding from the sentimentalist.
[00:07:10] To depict him as Sir Gala had in Holy Armor is a serious offense as to exhibit him
[00:07:17] as a caliban, which is from Shakespeare, from the temp to see like the ultimate bad guy
[00:07:24] in the Shakespeare's play the temp, the tempest, because the total beast.
[00:07:31] So you can't portray the person as Gala had, you can't, you can't, you know, again portraying
[00:07:37] him as a saint.
[00:07:40] Each method fails of truth and all that the soldier needs to be known about him that men
[00:07:45] should honor him is the truth.
[00:07:49] War, a hot new air, which men breathed, produced new energies and forms of thought.
[00:07:58] Men were rediscovering themselves, their own forgotten abilities, the latent abilities
[00:08:03] in all men.
[00:08:06] Bound together in the daily obedience of self-surrender, urged by conditions of their
[00:08:12] task to regard duty as inexorable, confronted by the pitilist destruction of the body.
[00:08:21] They were forced into recognition of the spiritual values of life.
[00:08:26] So faced with what they were facing in World War I and we've talked about that over and
[00:08:30] over again, you're facing death.
[00:08:34] And these guys, these soldiers are forced to look at their spiritual self.
[00:08:41] The common conventional use of the term, these men were not religious.
[00:08:47] There was much in their speech and in their conduct, which would outrage the standards
[00:08:52] of narrow piousism.
[00:08:54] So hey, these guys are not good at issues.
[00:08:57] Traditional creeds and forms of faith had scant authority for them, but they had made their
[00:09:02] own a sure faith then lives in creeds.
[00:09:08] So what they discover on the battlefield is even stronger than what the churches say.
[00:09:19] It was expressed not in words, but acts.
[00:09:24] They had freed their souls from the tyrannies of time and the fear of death.
[00:09:35] They had accomplished indeed that very emancipation of the soul, which is the essential doctrine
[00:09:46] of all religions, which all religions urge on men, but which few men really achieve.
[00:09:54] However, earnestly they profess forms of pious faith.
[00:10:01] That's pretty amazing.
[00:10:02] That's pretty amazing viewpoint.
[00:10:05] What you find out on the battlefield is spiritually stronger than what you find in the
[00:10:13] church.
[00:10:18] Back to the book, this was the true glory of the trenches.
[00:10:24] They were the cavalaries of a new redemption being wrought out from men by soiled unconscious
[00:10:30] Christ.
[00:10:31] That's what the soldiers were.
[00:10:32] Soiled, dirty, unconscious means they don't even know it.
[00:10:36] Christ's.
[00:10:39] And as from that ancient cavalry with its agony of shame, torture and dereliction, their
[00:10:46] flowed a flood of light, which made a new dawn for the world.
[00:10:52] So from these obscure crucifixions, there would come to men a new revelation of the splendor
[00:10:59] of the human soul.
[00:11:02] The true divinity that dwells in man, the God made manifest in the flesh by acts of valor,
[00:11:10] heroism, and self-sacrifice, which transcend the instincts and promptings of the flesh.
[00:11:19] Bear witness to the indestructible life of the Spirit.
[00:11:30] That's heavy.
[00:11:31] That's just, like I said, this viewpoint is I totally understand where it's coming from.
[00:11:41] And it expresses a lot of the things that I think I haven't thought about it to this degree,
[00:11:46] though.
[00:11:47] So calling the death of soldiers on the battlefield, true to fictions.
[00:11:55] And that God is made manifest in the flesh that these guys when they make these sacrifices,
[00:12:01] it's like a glimpse of God.
[00:12:04] These acts of valor and heroism, and it's just very powerful.
[00:12:09] Now that's wrapped up, you know, the intro's longer than that, obviously.
[00:12:14] But now we're going to go to the book itself, which again is written by this soldier,
[00:12:18] Dawson.
[00:12:19] And it actually starts with his training.
[00:12:21] And he was from England, and he lived in Canada.
[00:12:28] He ends up joining the military, because you know, Canada was supporting and helping Britain
[00:12:35] and the war.
[00:12:36] And he actually traveled to New York.
[00:12:38] He lived all over the place.
[00:12:40] And now he's going to boot camp.
[00:12:45] When I had been medically examined, past his fit had dawned a uniform and commenced
[00:12:49] to my training, I learned what the enduring of hardship was.
[00:12:55] No experience on active service has equal the humiliation and severity of those first months
[00:13:01] of soldiering.
[00:13:02] We were sneered at clean, stables, groomed horses, road stripped saddles, stripped saddle
[00:13:08] for 12 miles at the trot, attended lectures, studied till past midnight, and were up
[00:13:13] on the first parade at 6 o'clock.
[00:13:17] No previous civilian efficiency or prominent stood us in any stead.
[00:13:22] We started robbed of all importance.
[00:13:25] I love that.
[00:13:26] We started robbed of all three.
[00:13:27] So you know that thing, you have that to do?
[00:13:29] Yeah, it's gone.
[00:13:30] Just get rid of that.
[00:13:32] And only gained a new importance by our power to hang on and develop a new efficiency as
[00:13:37] soldiers.
[00:13:39] You've heard me say that before, like when I joined the military, that's one of my favorite
[00:13:42] things about us.
[00:13:43] I was like a blank slate.
[00:13:44] Like everything you did in your past, all the stuff you've been through, little trouble
[00:13:48] things you've done, it's all gone.
[00:13:50] What matters now is what you do here.
[00:13:55] When men went sick, they were labeled scrim shankers and struck off the course.
[00:14:02] It was an offense.
[00:14:03] It was an offense to let your body interfere with your duty.
[00:14:09] If it tried to, you must ignore it.
[00:14:12] If a man caught cold in Kingston, what would he not catch in the trenches?
[00:14:17] Very many went down under physical, under the physical ordeal.
[00:14:21] Of the class that started, I don't think more than the third past.
[00:14:24] The lukewarm soldier and the pink tea hero who simply wanted to swank a uniform were eventually
[00:14:31] choked off.
[00:14:33] Who's a test of pluck, even more than of strength or intelligence.
[00:14:38] The same test that a man would be subjected to all the time at the front.
[00:14:44] In a word, it started out the fellows who had guts.
[00:14:50] guts isn't a particularly polite word, but I have come increasingly to appreciate
[00:14:54] its splendid significance.
[00:14:57] The possessor of this much coveted quality is the kind of idiot who, when his legs are
[00:15:04] smitten, will fight upon his stumps.
[00:15:09] And actually, when I read this, I was like, man, there's some archaic term of idiot
[00:15:14] why is he using that word and there was none.
[00:15:17] He means, that's what he means is a guy, and we say this in the sea of training, like
[00:15:22] if you're going to be stupid, you've got to be tough.
[00:15:24] And that's kind of what he's saying, like these guys will go and they will not stop.
[00:15:29] And that's what guts is.
[00:15:32] The Tommy's in that displaying word for the British soldiers, whom we were going to
[00:15:36] command, would be like that.
[00:15:40] If we weren't like it, we wouldn't be any good as officers.
[00:15:43] This artillery school had a violent way of sifting out a man's moral worth.
[00:15:49] You hadn't much concede left by the end of it.
[00:15:54] So I can only imagine, we have a very politically correct military system now and it's
[00:16:00] getting, I can't imagine what these soldiers went through.
[00:16:04] I mean, just unleashing these veterans on them coming out and trying to get them ready
[00:16:09] for war, I bet it was brutal.
[00:16:11] And it sounds like it was brutal.
[00:16:12] And it sounds like it did a very effective job of getting rid of the weak, of making your
[00:16:17] ego completely go away, getting rid of any form of concede that you had.
[00:16:25] Now he continues on the book, but I'm going to move a little bit forward here to where
[00:16:30] he's moving towards the front.
[00:16:32] And we'll go back to the book.
[00:16:33] After trudging about six miles, we arrived at the camp and found that it was out of
[00:16:38] food and that all the tents were occupied.
[00:16:42] We stretched out our sleeping bags on the ground and went to bed's supper list.
[00:16:46] We had no food all day.
[00:16:48] Next morning we were told that we ought to jump on an ammunition lorry if we wanted to go
[00:16:53] any further on our journey.
[00:16:55] Nobody seemed to want us particularly and no one could give us the least information
[00:16:58] as to where our division was.
[00:17:00] It was another lesson if that were needed of our total unimportance.
[00:17:06] So these guys are looking to find whether or not we're supposed to report to say, go
[00:17:09] fight in the war.
[00:17:10] And people are like, I don't know, no time for you.
[00:17:13] Go figure it out.
[00:17:15] While we were raiding on the roadside in Australian brigade of artillery passed by,
[00:17:19] the men's faces were dreary with fatigue.
[00:17:22] The gunners were dismounted and marched as in a trance.
[00:17:27] The harness was muddy.
[00:17:29] The steel rusty, the horses lean and discouraged.
[00:17:34] We understood that they were pulling out from an offensive in which they had received
[00:17:37] a bad cutting up.
[00:17:39] To my overstrain imagination it seemed that the men had the vision of death in their
[00:17:44] eyes.
[00:17:46] Towards the evening, the thunder of the guns had swelled into an ominous roar.
[00:17:52] We passed through villages disfigured by shell fire.
[00:17:55] Civilians became more rare and more aged.
[00:17:59] Cattle disappeared utterly from the landscape.
[00:18:02] Fields were furrowed with abandoned trances in front of which hung in tanglements of wire.
[00:18:08] Mounted orderly splashed along selling roads at an impatient trot.
[00:18:12] Here and there we came across improvised beer vacts of infantry.
[00:18:17] Far away against the horizon towards which we traveled, hunt flares and rockets were going
[00:18:22] up.
[00:18:23] Hopeless stoicism, unordered of a desolation.
[00:18:28] That was my first impression.
[00:18:32] The landscape was getting increasingly muddy.
[00:18:35] It became a sea of mud.
[00:18:37] Dispatch riders on motorbikes traveled whereally their feet dragging to save themselves from
[00:18:42] falling.
[00:18:43] Everything was splashed with filth and corruption.
[00:18:45] One marveled at the cleanliness of the sky.
[00:18:50] Trees were blasted and seemed to be sinking out of sight in this war created slew of
[00:18:56] despondency.
[00:18:58] We came to a brow of a hill in the valley with something that I recognized.
[00:19:02] The last time I had seen it was an etching in a shop window in Newark, New Jersey.
[00:19:07] It was a town from the midst of who's battered ruins a splintered tower to sort against
[00:19:13] the sky.
[00:19:15] Leaning far out from the tower so that it seemed she must drop was a statue of the virgin
[00:19:21] with the Christ in her arms.
[00:19:24] It was a superstition with the French and I remembered that so long as she did not fall,
[00:19:29] things would go well with the allies.
[00:19:32] As we watched a shell screamed over the gaping roofs and a call of smoke going up.
[00:19:40] As we entered the streets, Tommy's more polluted than miners crept out from the skeletons
[00:19:44] of houses.
[00:19:45] They lent listlessly against sagging doorways to watch us pass.
[00:19:50] If we asked for information as to where our division was, they shook their heads stupidly
[00:19:55] to indifferent with weariness to reply.
[00:20:00] For the next three nights we slept by our wits and got our food by foraging.
[00:20:09] So we know, I mean we know this is a world war one, we know it's an absolute nightmare.
[00:20:15] It's an absolute nightmare.
[00:20:17] And you know what was surprising me, you know this guy's an officer and he has no idea
[00:20:21] what he's doing.
[00:20:22] He's just walking around and people are so dispondent from the war that they just
[00:20:28] don't even care.
[00:20:34] Back to the book, there was a headquarters nearby who's battalion was in the line.
[00:20:38] I struck up liaison with its officers and at times went into the crowded tent, which was
[00:20:43] their mess to get warm.
[00:20:45] Runners would come there at all hours of day and night bringing messages from the front.
[00:20:50] They were usually well spent, sometimes they gasped, but they had, but they all had the
[00:20:56] invincible determination to carry on.
[00:21:00] After they delivered their message, they would lie down in the mud and go to sleep like
[00:21:04] dogs.
[00:21:05] The moment the reply was ready, they would lurch to their feet throwing off their weiriness
[00:21:10] as if it were a thing to be conquered and despised.
[00:21:16] Go ahead and read that one again.
[00:21:18] So these guys are dog tired, they'd lay down in the mud, someone is preparing a reply
[00:21:22] for these messages and then the moment the reply was ready, they would lurch to their
[00:21:27] feet throwing off their weiriness as though it were a thing to be conquered and despised.
[00:21:34] I appreciate now as never before, I appreciate it now as never before the lesson of guts
[00:21:41] that I have been taught at Kingston.
[00:21:46] The other side of the town, the ravages of the war were far more marked.
[00:21:52] All the way along the roadside were clumps of little crosses, French, English, German,
[00:21:57] planted above their hurried graves of brave fellows who had fallen.
[00:22:01] Ambulances were picking their way weirly, turning with the last night's toll of wounded.
[00:22:09] We saw newly dead men and horses pulled to one sign who had been caught in the darkness
[00:22:16] by the enemies harassing fire, in places, in places the country had holes the size of
[00:22:22] quarries, where mines had exploded and shells from large caliber guns had detonated.
[00:22:29] Bedlam was raging up front, shells went screaming over us, seeking out victims in the
[00:22:35] back country.
[00:22:37] To have been there by oneself would have been most disturbing but the men about me seemed
[00:22:41] to regard it as perfectly ordinary and normal.
[00:22:46] I steadied myself by their example.
[00:22:54] It's interesting because we're talking about this and it sounds like hell and they're
[00:22:58] not even in the front yet.
[00:23:00] They're not on the front lines.
[00:23:01] This is behind.
[00:23:08] That's something else we were talking about today.
[00:23:10] You can see these guys, whatever pain and suffering they're feeling, they're not showing
[00:23:14] it.
[00:23:15] And he knows he can't show it.
[00:23:18] And that kind of bolsters them all and makes them all stronger.
[00:23:25] Back to the book about seven o'clock as we were resting the evening hate commenced.
[00:23:32] In those days the evening hate was a regular habit with the hunt.
[00:23:40] The new our country better than we did for he had retired from it.
[00:23:44] Every evening he used to search out all communication trenches and likely battery positions
[00:23:50] with any quantity of shells.
[00:23:53] So seven o'clock at night the Germans would just they knew all the positions because they
[00:23:57] had surrendered them so then they would just start dropping bombs, dropping artillery on
[00:24:03] the known positions that they knew they knew of the trenches where they built them.
[00:24:08] His idea was to rob us of our morale.
[00:24:13] I wish he might have seen how abysmal he failed to do it.
[00:24:19] Down our narrow valley like a flight of arrows the shells screamed in whistles.
[00:24:24] Where they struck the ground look like resurrection day with the dead elbowing their way
[00:24:29] into daylight and forcing back the earth from their eyes.
[00:24:36] There were actually many dead men just beneath the surface and as the ground was plowed up
[00:24:42] the smell of corruption became distinctly unpleasant.
[00:24:50] So these guys are buried they're buried in whatever four or five feet of dirt and these
[00:24:55] shells come in and dig them up.
[00:25:01] Only the shells began to go dud.
[00:25:05] So imagine this you're hearing these big explosion and then some shells hit and there's
[00:25:08] no explosion.
[00:25:10] You know what that means?
[00:25:11] It means it's gas.
[00:25:15] We realized that these were gas shells a thin, blueish vapor spread throughout the valley
[00:25:21] and breathing became oppressive.
[00:25:23] Then like stallions kicking in the stalls the heavy guns on the ridge above us opened
[00:25:28] up.
[00:25:29] Now the friendly guns start to open up.
[00:25:31] It was fine to hear them stamping their defiance.
[00:25:34] They made one want to get grips with his aggressors and the brief silence is one could
[00:25:39] hear our chaps laughing.
[00:25:40] So I want you to imagine this is awesome.
[00:25:45] You're getting chilled, you're getting crushed.
[00:25:48] There's dead bodies coming up from the soil.
[00:25:52] There's gas in the air.
[00:25:55] And here we go, in the brief silences, one could hear our chaps laughing.
[00:26:02] The danger seemed to fill them with a wild excitement.
[00:26:05] Every time a shell came near them and missed, they would taunt the unseen huns for
[00:26:11] their purport gunnery, giving what they considered necessary corrections.
[00:26:18] Five minutes more left old cock.
[00:26:21] If you'd only drop 50, you'd get us.
[00:26:24] There he's giving corrections to the guns.
[00:26:28] These men didn't know what fear was or if they did, they kept it to themselves.
[00:26:35] And these were the chaps whom I was to order.
[00:26:39] So we haven't heard too much about that.
[00:26:41] And Tony and Dave talked about it.
[00:26:44] Being a shot at and being really close calls situations and like everyone's laughing
[00:26:50] and it does happen.
[00:26:52] Hold war one, don't hear much about it, but here you go.
[00:26:57] Unbelievable.
[00:26:58] That's part of the way that military, that you do, not just military, but any bad situation.
[00:27:02] You know, a little humor goes a long way.
[00:27:06] A little humor goes a long way.
[00:27:10] Back to the book.
[00:27:11] We entered a trench.
[00:27:12] And this is, by the way, this is, I'm obviously not reading the entire book.
[00:27:16] I'm going to some highlights, so there's a little bit of a skip, you know, time here
[00:27:22] as they move towards the front.
[00:27:25] Back to the book.
[00:27:26] We entered a trench.
[00:27:28] Holds were scooped out in the side of it, just large enough to shelter a man crouching.
[00:27:33] Each hole contained a sleeping soldier who looked as dead as the occupant of a catacom.
[00:27:40] Some of the holes had been blown in, all you saw of the late occupant was a protruding
[00:27:45] arm or leg.
[00:27:48] That best there was a horrid similarity between the dead and the living.
[00:27:53] It seemed that the walls of the trenches had been built out of corpses.
[00:27:57] For one, recognize the uniforms of French and the Huns.
[00:28:06] So you're in this trench, but you're protected somewhat, but you got to dig another hole
[00:28:10] into the wall of the trench.
[00:28:13] And some of those guys get buried and killed and the body's are just there.
[00:28:18] Really, I mean, talk about hell.
[00:28:21] Hell.
[00:28:22] Back to the book.
[00:28:27] The enemy's shelling was growing more intense as was always the way on the zone, so we're
[00:28:33] there at the zone, the battle was on.
[00:28:35] When we were bringing in our, when we were bringing out our wounded.
[00:28:39] The good many of our trenches were directly on filet and if you don't know what that is,
[00:28:43] on filet is like, if you can imagine a line of people and you are shooting down the line
[00:28:49] of people and how much more exposed you are in that situation.
[00:28:55] So picture if I told you to shoot some of these 10 cans and I lined them up in a straight line,
[00:29:00] perpendicular to you, you'd have to aim at each individual one and you might hit it,
[00:29:04] you might not.
[00:29:05] If we put them all in a big line where they're, where they're parallel to you or they're,
[00:29:09] they go down the same gun target line that you have, you can, if you hit one, you might
[00:29:13] hit two, you might hit three, you might hit all of them with one shot.
[00:29:16] And so this is a bad situation to be in.
[00:29:19] You never want to have the enemy, so they're basically on your flank and you're lined
[00:29:23] up for them to shoot at you.
[00:29:24] It's a nightmare.
[00:29:27] Shell's burst just behind the parapet.
[00:29:29] When they didn't burst on it.
[00:29:30] It was about this point in my breaking in that I received a blow to the head and thank God
[00:29:38] for the man who invented the steel helmet so he's getting hit with some shrapnel.
[00:29:43] Night came down and we found that our carriage had no lights.
[00:29:47] It must have been nearing dawn when I was away and again I skipped a little bit but here
[00:29:52] we are obviously using a carriage.
[00:29:55] It must have been nearing dawn when I was awakened by the distant thunder of guns.
[00:30:00] I crouched in my corner, cold and cramped, trying to visualize the terror of it.
[00:30:07] I asked myself whether I was afraid.
[00:30:12] Not of death I told myself but of being afraid.
[00:30:17] Yes, most horribly.
[00:30:19] He was most horribly afraid.
[00:30:21] Not of death they're being wounded.
[00:30:23] He was afraid of being afraid.
[00:30:24] Yeah.
[00:30:25] This first experience in no man's land did away with my last Flabby fear.
[00:30:37] If I was afraid I would show it.
[00:30:40] One is often afraid and he soldier who asserts the contrary may not be a liar but he certainly
[00:30:45] does not speak the truth.
[00:30:49] Physical fear is too deeply rooted to be overcome by any amount of training.
[00:30:52] It remains then to train a man in spiritual pride so that when he fears nobody knows it.
[00:31:04] Cowardous is contagious.
[00:31:06] It has been said that no battalion is braver than its least brave member.
[00:31:14] Military courage therefore is a form of unselfishness.
[00:31:21] It is practiced that it may save the weaker men's lives and uphold their honor.
[00:31:30] The worst thing you can say of a man out on the front is that he doesn't play the game.
[00:31:38] That doesn't have necessity.
[00:31:39] He fails to do his duty.
[00:31:41] Listen to this.
[00:31:42] That doesn't mean he fails to do his duty.
[00:31:45] What it means is that he fails to do a bit more than his duty.
[00:31:51] In a man plays the game he does things which it requires a braver man than himself to
[00:31:58] accomplish.
[00:32:00] He never knows when he's done.
[00:32:01] He acknowledges no limit to his cheerfulness and strength.
[00:32:05] Whatever his rank holds his life less valuable than that of the humblest.
[00:32:14] He laughs at danger not because he does not dread it but because he has learnt that there
[00:32:20] are ailments more terrible and less curable than death.
[00:32:33] ailments more terrible and less curable than death and that ailment is cowardice.
[00:32:45] Until I became a part of the war I was a doubter of the nobility and others and a skeptic
[00:32:51] as regards to myself.
[00:32:54] The growth of my personal vision was complete when I recognized that the capacity of heroism
[00:33:00] is latent in everybody and only awaits the bigness of the opportunity to call it out.
[00:33:14] Different take.
[00:33:18] Obviously we talked about World War I and the less he's not the only person that felt
[00:33:26] this way about things and if this wasn't at least a fairly normal attitude to have there's
[00:33:33] no way that World War I could have continued on the way it did because people would have
[00:33:37] been saying no this is ridiculous.
[00:33:41] We just lost another 80,000 casualties.
[00:33:44] We lost another 100.
[00:33:46] These are battles where tens of thousands of people were casualties in one day and two days.
[00:33:54] So if people didn't have this kind of attitude that this was their duty they wouldn't have
[00:33:58] been able to maintain that type of that type of pace.
[00:34:04] And I don't even know whether to say I'm impressed by that or disgusted by it or disturbed.
[00:34:15] I didn't even have not disgusted but disturbed by it.
[00:34:19] Disurbed by it.
[00:34:21] And I would say all the time, you know this is the war that I would not want to fight
[00:34:25] it.
[00:34:26] Wouldn't want to fight it.
[00:34:29] Because this is the attitude is okay, your duty is to go get killed when we call.
[00:34:34] And it's just a matter how good.
[00:34:36] I say this all the time.
[00:34:37] It doesn't matter how good your tactics are, it doesn't matter how good of a leader you
[00:34:41] are because when we say go you're going to get your troops you're going to do what we say
[00:34:45] you're going to go over the top of your charge machine guns and guys you're going to
[00:34:48] get mode down.
[00:34:55] Now he goes into a little bit more about some of the battle.
[00:35:03] Back to the book, all this April, high above the shouting of the guns are larks.
[00:35:09] The larks, saying joyously, the scarlet of the poppies, the song of the larks, the lamp shining
[00:35:15] on the altar are the only external signs of the uncorcomable happy religion which lies
[00:35:22] in the hearts of our men.
[00:35:25] Their religion is the religion of heroism which they have learned in the glory
[00:35:33] of the trenches.
[00:35:36] There was a line from William Morris's earthly paradise which is like a long epic poem.
[00:35:42] It's almost like a novel which used to haunt me especially in the early days when I was
[00:35:48] first experiencing what war really meant.
[00:35:51] It reads his follows of heaven or hell I have no power to sing.
[00:35:58] I cannot ease the burden of your fears or make quick coming death a little thing.
[00:36:07] It's the last line that makes me smile rather quietly or make quick coming death a little
[00:36:13] thing.
[00:36:15] I smile because the souls who wear khaki have learned to do just that.
[00:36:29] These guys, this fear of death that people have and this poem that says, hey you can't
[00:36:34] make quick death.
[00:36:35] Quick coming death, you can't make that into a little thing.
[00:36:37] It's going to be huge anomalous.
[00:36:40] Guess what?
[00:36:41] These guys are okay with it.
[00:36:45] Back to the book, how typical he is of the days before the war when the people had only
[00:36:51] pinprix to endure.
[00:36:54] And consequently didn't exert themselves to be brave.
[00:36:58] A big sacrifice which bank rubs one's life is always more bearable than the little
[00:37:05] inevitable annoyances of sickness, disappointment and dying in a bed.
[00:37:11] The burden of our fears has slipped from our shoulders in our attempt to do something for
[00:37:18] others.
[00:37:20] The unbelievable and long-covided miracle has happened at last to every soul who has grasped
[00:37:28] his chance of heroism, quick coming death has become a fifth rate calamity.
[00:37:39] Think about that.
[00:37:40] Never get whatever.
[00:37:42] Whatever.
[00:37:43] You're no big deal to me.
[00:37:44] You're a fifth rate calamity.
[00:37:49] Back to the book.
[00:37:50] In saying this, I do not mean to glorify war.
[00:37:55] War can never be anything but beastly and damnable.
[00:37:59] It dates back to the jungle, but there are two kinds of war.
[00:38:06] There's the kind that highway men wages when he pounces from the bushes and assaults a
[00:38:11] defenseless woman.
[00:38:15] Then there's also the kind where you wage when you go to rescue her.
[00:38:21] The highway man can't expect to come out of that fight with a loft or your morality, but
[00:38:27] you can.
[00:38:29] Our chaps never want to defy.
[00:38:31] They hate fighting.
[00:38:34] It's that hatred of the thing they are compelled to do that makes them so terrible.
[00:38:42] He goes back and he's talking now about that wooden figure of Christ that he had seen.
[00:38:49] The wooden Christ gays down from them on his cross with a suffering which 2,000 years
[00:38:55] ago he had shared.
[00:38:59] The terrible pity of his silence seemed to be telling them that they had become one with him
[00:39:04] in their final sacrifice.
[00:39:07] They hadn't lived his life far from it, but unknowingly they had died his death.
[00:39:17] That's a part of the glory of the trenches that a man who has not been good can crucify
[00:39:23] himself and hang beside Christ in the end.
[00:39:29] So go out on the battlefield and you sacrifice your life, you will, all of your sins are
[00:39:36] gone, you're washed away and you hang beside Christ in the end.
[00:39:50] God as we see him and do we see him, I think so, but not always consciously.
[00:39:57] He moves among us in the forms of our brother men.
[00:40:02] We see him most evidently when danger is most threatening and courage is at its highest.
[00:40:09] We often don't recognize him out loud.
[00:40:11] Our chaps don't assert that there is fellow campaigners.
[00:40:15] They're too humble-minded and inarticulate for that.
[00:40:19] So he's saying, God's all around us, I see it in the guys, they're his campaigners,
[00:40:25] but they don't even, they don't say that.
[00:40:27] They don't say we're doing the work of God.
[00:40:29] They don't say we're living like God or we're living like Jesus Christ.
[00:40:32] No, they're too humble-minded and inarticulate for that.
[00:40:37] They're where they are because they want to do their bit, their duty.
[00:40:44] They're carefully disguised instinctive honor brought them there.
[00:40:50] Doing their bit in Bible language means laying down their lives for their friends.
[00:40:59] Doing their bit that covers everything.
[00:41:03] Here's an example of how God walks among us.
[00:41:06] In one of our attacks on the Psalm, all the observers up forward were uncertain as to what
[00:41:11] it happened.
[00:41:13] We didn't know whether our infantry had captured their objective, failed or gone beyond
[00:41:17] it.
[00:41:18] The battlefield, as far as the eye could reach, was a bath of mud.
[00:41:23] It is extremely easy and the excitement of an offensive when all landmarks are blotted
[00:41:28] out for our storming parties to lose their direction.
[00:41:31] If this happens, a number of dangers may result.
[00:41:34] Of Italian may find itself up in the air, which means that it failed to connect with the
[00:41:38] battalions on its left and right.
[00:41:41] This flanks are then exposed to the enemy.
[00:41:45] It may advance too far and start digging itself in at a point where it was previously
[00:41:49] arranged that our artillery should place their protective wall of fire.
[00:41:55] We, being forward artillery observers, are the eyes of the army.
[00:42:00] It is our business to watch for such contingencies to keep in touch with the situation
[00:42:05] as it progresses and to send our information back as quickly as possible.
[00:42:10] We were peering through our glasses from our point of vantage wind, far away in the thickest
[00:42:15] of the battle smoke we saw a white flag waving, sending back messages.
[00:42:21] The flag waving was repeatedly desperate.
[00:42:24] It was evident that no one had replied and probably that no one had picked up the messages.
[00:42:30] A signal who was with us, read the language for us.
[00:42:34] A company of infantry had advanced too far.
[00:42:36] They were most of them wounded.
[00:42:40] Very many of them dead and were in danger of being surrounded.
[00:42:43] They asked for artillery to place a curtain of fire in front of them and for reinforcements
[00:42:48] to be sent up.
[00:42:53] So they are in their trench.
[00:42:54] They are the artillery guys.
[00:42:55] They are looking out.
[00:42:56] They see flag which is one of the methodologies they had for signaling and communicating.
[00:43:00] You do these different signals.
[00:43:01] You can spell out words and so they are getting a signal back from this group that they might
[00:43:06] get surrounded.
[00:43:07] We are more artillery support in here.
[00:43:11] We at once famed the orders through to our artillery and notify the infantry headquarters
[00:43:16] of the division that was holding the front.
[00:43:19] But it was necessary to let those chaps know that we were aware of their predicament.
[00:43:24] They'd hang on if they knew that.
[00:43:26] Otherwise, without orders our signaler was getting his flags ready, he hopped on to the
[00:43:35] trench.
[00:43:37] He hopped out of the trench and onto the parapet.
[00:43:40] He didn't stand a 50-50 chance.
[00:43:43] The hunt was familiar with our observation station and strafed it with persistent regularity.
[00:43:50] The signaler turned to the senior officer present.
[00:43:53] What shall I send them?
[00:43:55] Tell them their messages have been received and that help is coming.
[00:44:00] Out the chaps scrambled, a flag in either hand.
[00:44:02] He was nothing but a boy.
[00:44:05] He ran, crouching like a rabbit to a hump of mud where his figure would show up against
[00:44:09] the sky.
[00:44:10] His flags commenced a waving, messages received help coming.
[00:44:14] They didn't see him at first.
[00:44:16] He had to repeat the words.
[00:44:17] We watched him breathlessly.
[00:44:20] We knew what would happen.
[00:44:23] At last, it did happen.
[00:44:26] A horn observer had spotted him and flashed the target back to his guns.
[00:44:30] All about him, the mud commenced to leap up and bubble.
[00:44:35] He went on signaling the good word to those stranded men up front.
[00:44:39] Message received, help coming.
[00:44:42] At least they'd seen him.
[00:44:44] They were signaling okay.
[00:44:46] It was at that moment that a whiz bang lifted him off his feet and landed him all of
[00:44:53] a huddle.
[00:44:55] His bit.
[00:44:57] He was what he'd volunteered to do when he came from Canada.
[00:45:04] The signal okay in the battle smoke was like a testimony to his character.
[00:45:16] So like I said, this had to be a common attitude and it's just hard for us to understand.
[00:45:21] It's hard for me that was in the military for 20 years to understand this attitude
[00:45:25] that you know what, it's your time to die now.
[00:45:28] Step up and pass their signaling back to them.
[00:45:31] I'm not saying that modern military guys don't take risks.
[00:45:35] Obviously take them enormous risks and we've got taken drastic casualties.
[00:45:41] But it is, this is definitely a different mentality.
[00:45:44] There's no doubt about it.
[00:45:45] Obviously it's a different mentality when you're losing millions of men.
[00:45:52] The millions of men.
[00:46:01] Back to the book and this is fast forward a little bit to kind of just giving a little
[00:46:05] more insight about what their outlook was.
[00:46:09] Out there in France, we used to tell each other fairy tales of how we would spend the first
[00:46:14] year of life when the war was ended.
[00:46:18] One man had a baby who had never seen.
[00:46:21] Another girl whom he was anxious to marry.
[00:46:24] My dream was more prosaic but no less ecstatic.
[00:46:28] It began and ended with a large white bed and a large white bath.
[00:46:34] For the first 365 mornings after peace had been declared, I was to be awakened by the sound
[00:46:40] of my bath being filled.
[00:46:44] Water was to be so plentiful that I could tumble off to sleep again without even troubling
[00:46:49] to turn off the tap.
[00:46:52] In France, one has to go dirty so often that the dream of always being cleaned seems
[00:46:57] as unrealizable as romance.
[00:47:01] Our drinking water is frequently brought up to us at the risk of men's lives.
[00:47:07] Carried through the mud and petrol can strap to pack horses.
[00:47:12] To use it carelessly would be like washing in men's blood.
[00:47:20] Here's another little paragraph again giving some more insight.
[00:47:25] You wouldn't think that the men would go to war to learn how to be kind but they do.
[00:47:31] There's no kind or creature in the whole wide world in the average Tommy.
[00:47:35] He makes a friend of any stray animal he can find.
[00:47:38] He shares his last friend with a chap who isn't his pal.
[00:47:42] He risks his life to die in consequently to rescue anyone who's elounded.
[00:47:48] He's gone over the top with the bomb and bayonet for the express purpose of doing in the
[00:47:53] hunt.
[00:47:55] But he makes a comrade of the fritzy he captures.
[00:47:58] You'll seem coming down the battered trenches with some scarred lad of a German at his
[00:48:03] side.
[00:48:14] Now he as I said in the beginning this we he gets wounded and at this point he's been wounded
[00:48:21] and now he's heading to Blighty which we talked about this before on the podcast.
[00:48:26] But Blighty was slaying for going back to England.
[00:48:32] Back to the book never in all my fortnight journey to Blighty did I hear a word of self pity
[00:48:39] or complaining.
[00:48:40] So he's going to the bunch of wounded people he's not hearing any complaining.
[00:48:43] On the contrary the most severely wounded men would profess themselves grateful that they had
[00:48:48] gotten off so lightly.
[00:48:50] Since the war started to turn lightly has become exceedingly comparative.
[00:48:55] I suppose a man is justified in saying he's got off lightly when what he expected was
[00:49:01] death.
[00:49:04] I remember a big highland officer who'd been shot in the kneecap.
[00:49:09] He'd been operated on and the kneecap had been found to be so splintered it had to be
[00:49:13] removed of this he was unaware.
[00:49:17] For the first day as he lay in bed he kept wondering aloud how long it would be before
[00:49:22] he could rejoin his battalion.
[00:49:26] Perhaps he suspected his condition and was trying to find out.
[00:49:30] All his heart seemed set at once on getting back into the fighting.
[00:49:36] Next morning he plucked up the courage to ask the doctor and received the answer he
[00:49:42] had dreaded.
[00:49:44] Never you won't be going back old chap.
[00:49:50] Next time he spoke his voice was a bit throaty will it stiffen?
[00:49:56] You've lost the knee joint the doctor said but with luck we'll save the leg.
[00:50:02] His voice sank to a whisper.
[00:50:05] If you do it won't be much good will it?
[00:50:09] Not much said the doctor.
[00:50:13] He lay for a couple hours silent, readjusting his mind to meet the new conditions.
[00:50:19] Then he commenced talking with cheerfulness about returning to his family.
[00:50:25] The habit of courage it conquered.
[00:50:27] The habit of courage which grows out of knowledge that you let your pals down by showing
[00:50:33] cowardice.
[00:50:34] So, took him a couple hours to adjust and said okay.
[00:50:41] Looks like I can get to go back to my family.
[00:50:49] Now we have another type of casualty here talking about men that have had major disfigurements
[00:50:58] to their faces and they would wrap their whole faces up.
[00:51:06] Back to the book.
[00:51:07] In these days that followed I saw several of these masked men.
[00:51:12] The worst cases were not allowed to walk about.
[00:51:16] The ones I saw were invariably dressed with the most scrupulous care in the smartest
[00:51:22] uniforms.
[00:51:24] Sam Browns, the best adult that goes over your shoulder, polished buttons, shining.
[00:51:30] They had hope and took a pride in themselves, a splendid sign.
[00:51:36] Perhaps you ask why the faces kept the face cases should be kept in front so the guys
[00:51:41] that had major facial disfigurements they would stay in France.
[00:51:50] I was not told but I can guess because they dread going back to England to their girls
[00:51:54] until they got rid of their disfigurements.
[00:51:57] So for two years through their bandages they watched the train pull out for Blady.
[00:52:03] All the damage which was done to them in a fragment of the second is repaired.
[00:52:19] At a base hospital you see something you don't see at casualty stations.
[00:52:23] Sisters, mothers, sweethearts and wives sitting beside the beds.
[00:52:30] They're allowed to come over from England when their man is dying.
[00:52:34] One of the wonderful things to me was to observe how these women in the hour of their
[00:52:38] tragedy catch this soldier's spirit.
[00:52:42] They're very quiet, very cheerful, very helpful.
[00:52:47] While passing through the ward they get to know some of the other patients and remember
[00:52:51] them.
[00:52:53] When they bring their own man flowers, sometimes when their own man is asleep they slip
[00:52:57] over to other bedcites and do something kind for the solitary fellows.
[00:53:02] That's the army all over.
[00:53:04] Military discipline is based on unselfishness.
[00:53:09] These women who have been sent to see their men die catch from them the spirit of undistressed
[00:53:15] sacrifice and enroll themselves as soldiers.
[00:53:23] You discover the spirit of the man when you've heard him wandering in delirium.
[00:53:29] So you talk in a little bit about the obviously guys that are suffering from shell shock
[00:53:36] is what they call it, what they used to call it in World War I.
[00:53:40] Guys that are having some mental issues all night in the shadowy ward with its hooded
[00:53:46] lamps.
[00:53:47] He would be giving orders for the comfort of his men.
[00:53:49] Sometimes he'd be proposing to go forward himself to a place where a company was having
[00:53:53] a hot time.
[00:53:55] Apparently one of his officers was trying to dissuade him.
[00:53:58] Danger be damned, he'd exclaim in a wonderfully strong voice.
[00:54:01] It'll buck him up to see me, splendid japs, splendid japs.
[00:54:12] For the soldier it seems that the war has always been and that they will never cease
[00:54:17] to being soldiers.
[00:54:18] For them both the past and the future are utterly obliterated.
[00:54:26] They would not have it otherwise, because they are doing their duty they are contented.
[00:54:34] The only time the subject is ever touched on is when someone expresses the hope that
[00:54:39] it'll last long enough for them to recover from his wounds and get back to the line.
[00:54:45] That usually starts another man who will never be any good, never be any more good for the
[00:54:51] trenches wondering whether he can get into the flying corps.
[00:54:56] The one ultimate hope of all these shattered wrecks who are being hurried to blighty.
[00:55:02] They have dreamt of is that they may see service again.
[00:55:09] We still hear that.
[00:55:12] We still hear that.
[00:55:17] I heard that.
[00:55:18] I talked about hearing that from Ryan Job who was blind and he's back at America and he's
[00:55:22] like let me come back.
[00:55:25] My first guy that I ever had would get wounded bad.
[00:55:30] I went to see him in the medical outstation.
[00:55:36] I just went down to like shake his hand and he was on morphing.
[00:55:39] He had been shot the leg. He didn't know if he was going to lose the leg or not.
[00:55:43] I went down and gave him, I went to shake his hand and he pulled me in and he's like
[00:55:49] let me stay.
[00:55:52] I was just like you man.
[00:55:55] What an awesome brother right there.
[00:55:56] This is not rare.
[00:55:57] This still happens.
[00:55:58] You hear this all the time.
[00:56:00] There's guys in the US military that go back to combat with one leg with one hand.
[00:56:09] I mean, even Jodi was like talking about, you know, when he woke up and showed him
[00:56:13] a medical who he was in the park.
[00:56:15] When he woke up and he found out that they took both of his legs.
[00:56:20] He was pissed because one leg you can still go back on the planet but two leg can't do
[00:56:24] it.
[00:56:25] So Jodi the badass was just like, no look.
[00:56:31] How am I going to go back now?
[00:56:37] Some of us will be back in the fighting and Jolly Glad of it.
[00:56:42] Others are doomed to remain in the trenches for the rest of their lives, not the trenches
[00:56:46] of the front line where they've been strafed by the hunt, but the trenches of physical
[00:56:52] curtailment where self-pity will launch wave after wave of attack against them.
[00:56:59] It won't be easy not to get the wind up.
[00:57:05] It'll be difficult to maintain normal cheerfulness but they're not the men they were before
[00:57:11] they went to war.
[00:57:13] Out there they've learned something.
[00:57:16] Their game, they'll remain soldiers whatever happens.
[00:57:20] So he's talking about these guys that are aren't going to be able to make it back and
[00:57:27] he's saying they're going to be hard for him.
[00:57:31] But he's saying that they're game but they're going to bring it.
[00:57:34] Is there going to remain soldiers regardless of what happens?
[00:57:40] Now this is a pretty interesting piece where he goes back to New York where like I said
[00:57:47] he had spent some time there and he's talking a little about what it's like in New York.
[00:57:53] He says there's one person I've missed since my return to New York.
[00:57:59] I've caught glimpses of him disappearing around corners but he dodges.
[00:58:04] I think he's a bit ashamed to meet me.
[00:58:08] That person is my old civilian self.
[00:58:14] What a full blown egoist he used to be.
[00:58:17] How full of gold and plans for his own advancement.
[00:58:21] How terrified of failure, of disease, of money losses, of death, of all the temporary external,
[00:58:32] non-essential things that have nothing to do with the spirit.
[00:58:40] War in itself is damnable.
[00:58:46] It's a extravagant, wasteful use of resources, a misuse of accumulated brain stuff of centuries.
[00:58:58] Nevertheless, there's many a man who has no love of war, who previous the war had cramped
[00:59:04] his soul with littleness and was chased by the bayonet of duty into the bloodstained
[00:59:10] largeness of the trenches who is alert to say thank God for this war.
[00:59:22] He thinks God not because of the carnage.
[00:59:27] But because when the wine-pressive new ideals was being trotting, he was born in an age
[00:59:34] where he could do his share.
[00:59:41] Often at the front, I have thought of Christ's explanation of his own unassailable peace.
[00:59:47] An explanation given to his disciples at the last supper, be of good cheer I have overcome
[00:59:52] the world.
[00:59:55] Overcoming the world, as I understand it, is overcoming fear.
[01:00:02] And it's final analysis is nothing but selfishness.
[01:00:07] A man who is afraid in the attack isn't thinking of his pals, of his pals, and how quickly
[01:00:14] terror spreads.
[01:00:15] He isn't thinking of the glory which we will accrue to his regiment or division if the
[01:00:19] attack is a success.
[01:00:21] He isn't thinking of what he can do to contribute to that success.
[01:00:26] He isn't thinking of the splendor of forcing his spirit to triumph over weiriness and
[01:00:33] nerves and the abominations that the hunts are chucking at him.
[01:00:40] He's merely thinking of how he can save his worthless skin and conduct his entirely
[01:00:47] unimportant body to a place where there aren't any shells.
[01:01:00] In London, as I saw the work of day, unconscious nobility of the maimed and wounded, the
[01:01:07] words I have overcome the world took an added depth.
[01:01:12] All these men have a eye of overcome the world looking their faces.
[01:01:18] It is comparatively easy for a soldier with traditions and ideals to get back to face
[01:01:26] death calmly, to become in the face of life as these chaps are takes graver courage.
[01:01:37] What has happened to them?
[01:01:40] Is attitude of mind or greatness of soul?
[01:01:43] Whatever you like to call it was learned in the trenches, where everything outward is polluted
[01:01:49] and damnable.
[01:01:52] Their experience at the front has given them what in the army language is known as guts,
[01:02:00] courage is an attitude of mind towards calamity and attitude of mind which makes the
[01:02:06] honorable accomplishing of duty more permanently satisfying than the preservation of self.
[01:02:16] Like I said, when I kicked this off, this is a different powerful angle to look at these
[01:02:22] things.
[01:02:23] I have talked about this as well.
[01:02:24] I don't know if you Sam Harris asked me.
[01:02:28] I was saying that hey, war shows you a lot of beauty in the juice where you get to see
[01:02:32] these incredible capacity of humanity.
[01:02:38] He said, you know, you say that, but I've also heard you describe war as horrible and
[01:02:43] I kind of gave him an answer about, you know, I asked him, I said, hey, if they've
[01:02:48] never known you, but survived cancer.
[01:02:50] He said, yes, and I'm like, yeah, and when they survive it, a lot of them say it opened
[01:02:56] my mind, it freed me from being afraid and it did all these wonderful things.
[01:03:01] I'm like, I would never wish it on anybody, but they don't, they don't wish that it
[01:03:06] didn't happen either.
[01:03:07] They learned so much from it.
[01:03:08] And that's how I feel about war and that's kind of what I read in a lot of this is Dawson
[01:03:15] saying, look, you are so changed by this and regardless of the horrors, the change is positive.
[01:03:23] It opens your eyes in a way that nothing else can.
[01:03:31] Back to the book, that's the kind of peep that God we got on the Western front.
[01:03:38] It is in the sad peep either, when men die for something worthwhile, death loses all its
[01:03:43] terror.
[01:03:46] It's peetering out in bed, from sickness or old age that's so horrifying.
[01:03:52] Many a man whose cowardice is at longer heads with a sense of duty comes to the front
[01:03:57] as a non-combatant.
[01:03:59] He compromises with his conscious and takes a bombproof job in some service whose places
[01:04:05] well behind the lines.
[01:04:07] So he's saying, okay, a lot of guys, they're like, hey, you know what, I'm kind of scared.
[01:04:10] I just want to, you know, just give me a easy job.
[01:04:13] Just, you know, I don't want to get killed.
[01:04:16] Back to the book, he doesn't stop there long.
[01:04:20] He's a decent, sir, sort.
[01:04:23] Having learned more than he ever guests before about the brutal things that Shellfire
[01:04:27] can do to you, he transfers into a fighting unit.
[01:04:32] Why?
[01:04:34] Because danger doesn't appall, it allures.
[01:04:39] It holds a challenge.
[01:04:40] It stings one's pride.
[01:04:42] It urges one to seek out ascending scales of risk.
[01:04:47] It's to prove to himself he isn't flabby.
[01:04:54] And flabby's actually another word that I looked up.
[01:04:55] There's an old, kind of capture what the real meaning is.
[01:05:00] And then there's the definition.
[01:05:02] Another definition is lacking strength or determination.
[01:05:07] Now this is classic.
[01:05:10] The safe job is the only job for which there's no competition in fighting units.
[01:05:17] You have to persuade men to be grooms or cooks or bat men.
[01:05:24] If you're seeking volunteers for a chance at annihilation, you'll have to cast lots to
[01:05:29] avoid the offense of rejecting.
[01:05:34] All of this is inexplicable to civilians.
[01:05:39] And again, this is something I saw with my own two eyes.
[01:05:42] And I talked about this in my retirement speech in Ramadi.
[01:05:44] And I was like, okay, we need volunteers who wants to go over and live in this hellhold
[01:05:48] and Eastern Ramadi and go out on operations where we're going to be taking casualties.
[01:05:52] It's going to be a nightmare and I can promise you nothing but blood, sweat, and tears.
[01:05:56] Who, if you want to go on that, if you want to go there, not not for one operation, but
[01:06:00] I'm going to put you there for six months.
[01:06:02] So who, you know, if you want that, put your name on the board.
[01:06:05] Every single guy does it.
[01:06:07] Every single guy does it.
[01:06:09] And that's exactly what he's talking about here.
[01:06:13] That's exactly how's it?
[01:06:14] As a matter of fact, I hooked up with a trooper down in New Zealand.
[01:06:17] Did you just do play or?
[01:06:18] And we were talking to you.
[01:06:20] He was using the in the commandos, in the Ramrian commandos, 40 commandos.
[01:06:27] And he was going to get moved to being a cook for his go four year duty as a cook.
[01:06:34] His work is going to get tasked with and he got out of the room.
[01:06:37] He got out of the room, rinse because you know what?
[01:06:39] He said, I'm not going to be a cook.
[01:06:40] You know, I'm a warrior.
[01:06:43] I want to go and get after it.
[01:06:45] So that's like, you see that, in this modern day, you know, I'm talking about how different
[01:06:49] it was back then, but maybe it was as different as I think it is.
[01:06:52] Yeah.
[01:06:53] Because we still got troopers that are just willing to step up all the time.
[01:06:57] And that's that's one thing that's awesome.
[01:06:58] You know, again, from my experience in the in the in the in the seal teams, you know,
[01:07:03] when I went in there was no war going on, I kind of thought that there was, but
[01:07:06] there wasn't.
[01:07:07] But these guys, these kids that come in now, they know where they're going.
[01:07:10] They know there's a war going on.
[01:07:12] They know they're going to get after it.
[01:07:14] And they're lining up.
[01:07:16] I know man, it's crazy how many people I see their reason to join is to go fight these bad
[01:07:23] guys.
[01:07:24] It's not because I don't have anything better to do or not.
[01:07:27] It's like, nah, I want to I want to quit my job and go fight.
[01:07:31] Yeah, there's no doubt about it.
[01:07:33] No doubt about it.
[01:07:38] Now I like this because we start hammering on some philosophers a little bit.
[01:07:42] No offense to a Darryl Cooper and Margar made because he's a big philosophy guy.
[01:07:47] I know where you're at Cooper.
[01:07:52] I'm going to agree with Dawson on this one.
[01:07:53] Here we go.
[01:07:54] Back to the book.
[01:07:55] If civilian philosophers fail to explain us, we can explain them.
[01:08:01] In their world, they are the center of their universe.
[01:08:06] They look inward instead of outward.
[01:08:09] The sun rises and sets to minister to their particular happiness.
[01:08:14] If they die, the stars would vanish.
[01:08:20] We understand a few months ago, we too were like that.
[01:08:27] What makes us reckless of death is our intense gratitude that we have altered.
[01:08:33] We want to prove ourselves and access how utterly changed we are from what we were.
[01:08:43] In his secret heart, the egoist is a self-despisor.
[01:08:51] Can you imagine what a difference it works in a man after years of self-contempt at least
[01:08:57] for one brief moment to approve of himself?
[01:09:02] Since we can remember, we are chained to the prison house of our bodies.
[01:09:06] We live to feed our bodies to close our bodies to preserve our bodies to minister to their passions.
[01:09:16] Now we know that our bodies are mere flimsy shells in which our souls are paramount.
[01:09:25] We can fling them aside in a minute.
[01:09:27] They become ignoble.
[01:09:29] The moment the soul has departed, we have proof.
[01:09:34] Often, at zero hour, we have seen whole populations of cities go over the top in vanish.
[01:09:43] Weaving behind their bloody rags.
[01:09:49] We should go mad if we did not believe in immortality.
[01:09:53] We know that the physical is not the essential part.
[01:09:56] How better can a man shake off his flesh than at the hour when his spirit is most shining?
[01:10:06] The exact day when he dies does not matter tomorrow or 50 years hence, the vital concern
[01:10:13] is not when.
[01:10:16] But how?
[01:10:21] The civilian philosopher considers what we've lost.
[01:10:27] He forgets that it could never have been ours for long.
[01:10:39] Giving up the self.
[01:10:40] There's some Zen and I'm no Buddhist monk, but there's a lot of Zen philosophy in there,
[01:10:46] too.
[01:10:47] You're completely surrendering yourself.
[01:10:50] And that's a powerful, powerful thing.
[01:10:52] You look like you really liked that last part there.
[01:10:55] It's heavy stuff.
[01:11:00] Here he goes down the same vein, comparing civilian life.
[01:11:06] And so he was talking about civilian philosophers.
[01:11:09] Now he's going to go into just talking about the civilian, even how civilian spend their
[01:11:14] life and how he used to spend his life.
[01:11:18] Here we go back to the book.
[01:11:20] We probably caught a train in every morning.
[01:11:23] The same train we went to a business where we sat at a desk.
[01:11:27] Neither the business nor the desk ever altered.
[01:11:31] We received the same strafing from the same employer or if we were the employer we administered
[01:11:37] the same strafing.
[01:11:40] We only did these things that we might eat bread.
[01:11:45] Our dreams were all selfish of more clothes, more respect, more food, bigger houses.
[01:11:56] The least part of the day we've devoted to the people and the things we really cared for.
[01:12:06] And the people we loved, we weren't always even nice to them.
[01:12:16] And then he breaks and he goes into what it is being a soldier.
[01:12:21] He says, being a soldier is doing a man's job, doing it for someone else and unafraid to
[01:12:29] meet God.
[01:12:35] And now he's about to go and discuss where this comes from.
[01:12:42] Nevertheless, it is true.
[01:12:43] It isn't natural to be brave.
[01:12:46] How then have multitudes of man acquired this sudden act of courage?
[01:12:54] They have acquired it through discipline and training.
[01:13:00] When you have subjected yourself to discipline, you cease to think of yourself.
[01:13:07] You are not you, but part of a company of men.
[01:13:12] If you don't do your duty, you throw the whole machine out.
[01:13:17] You soon learn the hard lesson that every man's life and every man's service belongs to other
[01:13:22] people.
[01:13:24] If this, the organization of an army is a vivid illustration, take the infantry for instance.
[01:13:31] They can't fight by themselves.
[01:13:33] They're dependent on the support of the artillery.
[01:13:35] The artillery in turn would be terribly crippled or not for the gallantry of the air service.
[01:13:41] If the infantry collapse, the guns have to go back.
[01:13:45] If the infantry advance, the guns have to be pulled forward.
[01:13:48] This close interdependence of service on service division on division, battalion on
[01:13:52] battalion follows right down through the army till it reaches the individual.
[01:13:59] So that each man feels that the day will be lost if he fails.
[01:14:07] His imagination becomes intrigued by the immensity of the stakes for which he plays.
[01:14:15] Any physical calamity which may happen to himself becomes trifling when compared with
[01:14:22] the disgrace he would bring upon his regiment if he were not courageous.
[01:14:33] Now I'm about to read a piece that's, it's just a story he tells a story within a story.
[01:14:44] And we'll go right to it.
[01:14:45] A few months ago I was handling over a battery position in a fairly warm place.
[01:14:51] The major who came up to take over for me brought with him a subaltern and just enough
[01:14:57] men to run the guns.
[01:14:59] Within a half an hour of their arrival, a stray shell came in and caught the subaltern
[01:15:04] in five of the gun detachment.
[01:15:08] As plain at once that the subaltern was dying, his name must have been written on the
[01:15:13] shell as we say in France.
[01:15:16] We got a stretcher and made all haste to rush him out to a dressing station.
[01:15:24] Just as he was leaving, he asked to speak with his major.
[01:15:27] I'm sorry sir.
[01:15:28] I didn't mean to get wounded.
[01:15:30] He whispered.
[01:15:32] The last word he sent back from the dressing station where he died was tell the major I didn't
[01:15:37] mean to do it.
[01:15:41] That's the discipline.
[01:15:42] He didn't think of himself.
[01:15:44] All he thought of was that his major would be left short handed.
[01:15:53] He's about to tell another story that is, well I'm just going to read it.
[01:16:05] Last spring the night before an attack, a man was brought into battalion headquarters dug
[01:16:09] out under arrest.
[01:16:14] The colonel and the agitant were busy attending the last details of their preparations.
[01:16:21] The agitant looked up irritably.
[01:16:23] What is it?
[01:16:25] The NCO of the guard answered, we found this man's sir in a communication trench.
[01:16:32] His company has been in the front line for two hours.
[01:16:35] He was sitting down with his equipment thrown away and evidently has no intention of
[01:16:40] going up.
[01:16:44] The agitant glanced coldly at the prisoner.
[01:16:49] One of you to say for yourself.
[01:16:50] So you understand this?
[01:16:52] So they found this soldier.
[01:16:54] He was his troops were up and fighting on the front line for two hours.
[01:16:58] They find him.
[01:17:00] He's got his radio strewn about and they say, are you going to go fight with your men?
[01:17:04] And he says he's not going to go.
[01:17:06] So the agitant glanced coldly at the prisoner.
[01:17:09] What of you to say for yourself?
[01:17:12] The man was ghastly white and shaking like an aspirin.
[01:17:18] Sir, I'm not the man I was since I saw my best friend Jimmy.
[01:17:21] We had his head blown off and lying in his hands.
[01:17:25] It's kind of got me.
[01:17:27] I can't face up to it.
[01:17:32] The agitant was silent for a few seconds.
[01:17:36] Then he said, you have a double choice.
[01:17:41] I can either be shot up there doing your duty or behind the lines as a coward.
[01:17:48] It's for you to choose.
[01:17:50] I don't care.
[01:17:55] The interview is ended.
[01:17:57] He turned again to the Colonel.
[01:17:59] The man slowly straightened himself, saluted like a soldier and marched out alone to the front.
[01:18:09] That's what discipline does for a man who's going back on himself.
[01:18:22] Like I said, I'm not even sure how I feel about that story.
[01:18:27] I actually don't know.
[01:18:30] You got a guy in the hack where he talks about this dick.
[01:18:32] Winners talked about this.
[01:18:33] Where you get guys that they're broken.
[01:18:37] You've got to give him a break.
[01:18:41] What had this guy been through God only knows.
[01:18:45] Obviously, he saw his friend get killed.
[01:18:46] I'm sure he was near death over and over again.
[01:18:51] The Colonel just says, you either get out there and die.
[01:18:56] You die back here as a coward.
[01:19:00] There's like a part of me that is filled with admiration.
[01:19:15] The guy obviously overcomes his fears and there's also a part of me that's filled with horror
[01:19:22] because he overcomes his fears.
[01:19:27] To give that final order and for the soldier to give that final salute, it's just all
[01:19:40] of it, the bravery and at the same time, the cowlessness and at the same time, the fear
[01:19:47] and the dedication to duty and yet it's dedication to madness.
[01:20:02] And again, it's a window into human nature.
[01:20:10] And what people go through and what people will do and won't do and what it takes to get
[01:20:17] him there.
[01:20:26] Back to the book.
[01:20:28] One of the big influences that helps keep a soldier's soul sanitary is what's known in the
[01:20:35] British Army as spit and polish.
[01:20:40] Basically we pull out for a rest we start to working, burnishing and washing.
[01:20:45] The chaps may have shown the most brilliant courage and self-sacrificing endurance it
[01:20:50] counts for nothing if they're untidy.
[01:20:53] The first morning no matter what are the weather conditions we hold an inspection.
[01:20:59] Every man has to show up with his chin-shaped hair cut, leather polished and button shining.
[01:21:06] If he doesn't, he gets hell.
[01:21:12] So I mean clearly we've talked about this since day one, the discipline and maintaining
[01:21:17] the discipline.
[01:21:18] And here these guys coming off the front lines from the trenches.
[01:21:21] All right cool tomorrow morning we're having inspections of get your deer together
[01:21:25] and polish your boots.
[01:21:28] Back to the book, there's a lot in it.
[01:21:30] You bring a man out from a tight corner where he's been an hourly contact with death.
[01:21:35] He's apt to think what's the use in taking pride of myself.
[01:21:38] I'm likely to be done in any day.
[01:21:42] It'll all be the same if I'm dead.
[01:21:45] But if he doesn't keep clean in his body he won't keep clean in his mind.
[01:21:51] The man who has his button shining brightly in his leather polished is usually the man who
[01:21:57] is brightly polished on the inside.
[01:22:01] And polish teaches a man to come out of the trenches from seeing his palettes killed and
[01:22:05] carry on as though nothing abnormal had happened.
[01:22:10] It educates him in an impersonal attitude towards calamity which makes it bearable.
[01:22:18] It forces him not to regard anything too tragically.
[01:22:23] If you can stand aside from yourself and poke fun at your own tragedy, and tragedy always
[01:22:29] has its humors aspects.
[01:22:32] That helps.
[01:22:37] We were sometimes we were in the som for several months.
[01:22:40] The mud was up to our knees almost all the time.
[01:22:43] We were perishingly cold and very rarely dry.
[01:22:46] There was no natural cover.
[01:22:47] When we went up forward to observe we would stand in water to our knees for 24 hours
[01:22:51] rather than going to the dugouts.
[01:22:54] They were so filled with vermin and batten flies.
[01:22:58] Even if we were wounded and strayed man often drowned on their buck journey back from
[01:23:02] the front line, many of the dead never got buried lives couldn't be rescued in carrying
[01:23:06] them out.
[01:23:08] We were so weary that the sight of those who rested forever only stirred in us a quiet
[01:23:14] envy.
[01:23:17] Our emotions were too exhausted for hatred.
[01:23:20] They usually are unless some new hunishness had roused them.
[01:23:26] When we were having a bad time, we'd glance across no man's land and say poor old fritzy,
[01:23:31] he's getting the worst of it.
[01:23:34] That thought helps.
[01:23:39] This is a piece where he talks about when somebody's not holding the line, when somebody's
[01:23:44] a quitter.
[01:23:47] When you come to consider it, a quitter is always a selfish man.
[01:23:52] A selfishness that makes a man a coward or a deserter, if he's in a dangerous place and runs
[01:23:57] away, all he's doing is thinking of himself.
[01:24:06] He goes on to say, here, I've been supposed to have been talking about God as we see him.
[01:24:12] I don't know whether I have.
[01:24:14] As a matter of fact, if you ask me when I was out there, whether there was any religion
[01:24:18] in the trenches, I should have replied certainly not.
[01:24:24] Now that I've been out of the fighting for a while, I see that there is religion there,
[01:24:29] a religion which will dominate the world when the war has ended, the religion of heroism.
[01:24:34] It's a religion in which men don't pray much.
[01:24:39] With me before I went to the front, prayer was a habit.
[01:24:44] Out there, I lost the habit.
[01:24:47] Not one was doing seemed sufficient.
[01:24:52] I got the feeling that I might be meeting God at any moment, so I didn't need to be worrying
[01:24:57] him all the time, hanging on to spiritual telephone and feeling slidied if he didn't answer
[01:25:04] me directly when I rang him up.
[01:25:08] If God was really interested in me, he didn't need constant reminding.
[01:25:12] When he had a world to manage, it seemed best not to interrupt him with fearless petitions,
[01:25:20] but to put my prayers into my work.
[01:25:25] That's how we all feel out there.
[01:25:29] I've learnt discipline and my own total unimportant.
[01:25:35] In the army discipline gets possession of your soul, you learn to suppress yourself
[01:25:41] to obey implicitly to think of others before yourself.
[01:25:45] You learn to jump at an order to forsake your own convenience at any hour of the day or
[01:25:51] night to go forward on the most lonely and dangerous errands without complaining.
[01:25:57] You learn to feel that there is only one thing that counts in life and only one thing
[01:26:03] you can make out of it.
[01:26:05] The spirit you have developed in encountering difficulties.
[01:26:12] Your body is nothing.
[01:26:14] It can be smashed in a minute how frail it is you never realize until you've seen men
[01:26:19] smashed, so you learn to tolerate the body, to despise death and to place all your alliance
[01:26:27] on courage.
[01:26:29] Which when is found at its best is the power to endure for the sake of others.
[01:26:47] It is closing out here.
[01:26:54] The religion of the trenches is not a religion which analyzes God with in-pertoned speculation.
[01:27:02] So in this religion the trenches God is not standing in some kind of a foritary judgment.
[01:27:09] It isn't a religion which takes up much of his time.
[01:27:14] It's a religion which teaches men to carry on stoutly and to say, I've tried to do my bit
[01:27:21] as best I know how.
[01:27:27] That's the simple religion of the trenches as I have learned it.
[01:27:31] A religion not without glory.
[01:27:35] To carry on as bravely as you know how and to trust God without worrying him.
[01:27:46] And the last line I'll read from the glory of the trenches, Dawson says, it's funny.
[01:27:54] You go away to the most damnable undertaking ever invented.
[01:28:03] And you come back cleaner in spirit.
[01:28:16] And again I will tell you that from my perspective and from what I've been through
[01:28:24] which by the way, I want to say that what I've been through in my military career is absolutely
[01:28:31] nothing.
[01:28:33] Nothing compared to what a soldier in the world were one lived through.
[01:28:39] But what I did go through, I will say this.
[01:28:41] I don't think war took anything away from me or impacted me in a negative way.
[01:28:53] I think war made me better.
[01:28:59] I think war made me a better man, a better person.
[01:29:06] And in the words of Dawson,
[01:29:10] I think it absolutely cleaned my spirit.
[01:29:19] And I am thankful for that.
[01:29:26] And I guess that the question becomes how can we clean our spirits without war?
[01:29:34] How can we do that?
[01:29:35] And I think the answer again, and this is something that I don't think is that it comes
[01:29:43] from discipline.
[01:29:44] And that's what I talk about all the time.
[01:29:46] It's about setting aside comfort, setting aside weakness, setting aside fear, and having
[01:29:51] the discipline to endure.
[01:29:56] And the challenges in the hardship and the pain in order to become better.
[01:30:10] To suffer the glory of the discipline, to become stronger and faster and smarter and better.
[01:30:28] And now from a leadership perspective is to then put others before yourself.
[01:30:40] The try and do some good in the world for others to lead them down the right path, not
[01:30:48] for you.
[01:30:52] But for them.
[01:30:57] And while war certainly taught me those things and ingrained those things into my mind
[01:31:05] if they weren't already there, I don't think you need to go to war.
[01:31:10] But I do think that you have to discipline yourself.
[01:31:20] You have to get outside your comfort zone and you have to push yourself beyond what you
[01:31:24] thought you could ever do.
[01:31:27] To get that glimpse of the truth and to get that glimpse of the glory in the trenches.
[01:31:57] And again, thanks to Jesse for sending me this book, Outstanding Old Copy Printed in 1918.
[01:32:11] I actually typed it all out so I didn't have to mess up this beautiful book.
[01:32:18] I learned a lot from it.
[01:32:20] So I appreciate it.
[01:32:23] And echo Charles.
[01:32:28] Save me and talk.
[01:32:33] Talk about something more like for instance.
[01:32:37] But like for instance, people just listen to this and maybe they want to listen to more
[01:32:42] of it.
[01:32:43] How could they help that occur in the world?
[01:32:46] Move that process along.
[01:32:48] We could just talk about Jockel White T for like 10 minutes.
[01:32:53] We could definitely talk about Jockel White T.
[01:32:54] I wasn't really that into, actually I was.
[01:32:57] I'm into T every once in a while.
[01:32:59] I can hear you say a lot of the T from the offices now missing.
[01:33:03] But you know how like you're like, you know, it's a mellow night.
[01:33:07] I should just call it and go to bed or something.
[01:33:10] Then I'd make like, you know what's the mellow one?
[01:33:13] Can't remember.
[01:33:14] Whatever.
[01:33:15] Yeah, I'm not into T like I said.
[01:33:18] So I was like, all right, well hey, you know, Jockel T.
[01:33:21] It's cool.
[01:33:23] I'm cool.
[01:33:24] Yeah.
[01:33:25] How's that working out?
[01:33:26] It's not going to say.
[01:33:27] No, it's like a random Saturday.
[01:33:29] And I was like, I'm going to do like how you do put it on ice and see if I can't get my
[01:33:34] refresh on, you know, outside it, whatever.
[01:33:37] And so I put it in.
[01:33:39] I put in this tin collo.
[01:33:40] Nice man.
[01:33:41] I was like, oh, I think I might be into T a little bit.
[01:33:44] Sarah comes out.
[01:33:45] She has hers too.
[01:33:46] It was nice.
[01:33:47] It was cool man.
[01:33:48] We are going through it very quickly because they're, well, I hope I am
[01:33:51] always getting after it right now.
[01:33:52] This is my younger kids.
[01:33:55] But yeah, and you know what's awesome?
[01:33:57] I don't know if you've gone to Amazon.com and read the reviews that people are writing.
[01:34:04] I'm actually going to have to bring out some of those and read them because they're awesome.
[01:34:09] They're funny as hell and they're great.
[01:34:12] So everyone that's writing reviews for Jockel T, Jockel White T, I appreciate it.
[01:34:18] It's awesome.
[01:34:19] Got a lot of good feedback as well about, you know, everyone likes it tastes great.
[01:34:25] And it makes you feel real good.
[01:34:27] It makes you feel, it's a little glory, a little glory in a cup, little glory in a
[01:34:32] iced tea.
[01:34:33] So I was looking over like the instructions.
[01:34:36] So let me just in case you don't read the instructions, I think they're pretty straightforward.
[01:34:41] I think you've ever had tea.
[01:34:43] Yeah.
[01:34:44] People know.
[01:34:45] But if you took the time to read the instructions, this is what you would read.
[01:34:48] So you can read the instructions.
[01:34:49] Boyle eight out of the water, pour water over one bag of Jockel White T, proof for three
[01:34:54] to five minutes.
[01:34:55] Enjoy over or enjoy hot or over ice.
[01:35:00] Get after it.
[01:35:01] So get after it is part of the instructions.
[01:35:05] In what's funny is people are, it's real.
[01:35:08] Like you really, you really have to get after it when you're done.
[01:35:13] And so that's what the funny is people are saying.
[01:35:17] It's real.
[01:35:18] It's real.
[01:35:19] There's real stuff in there.
[01:35:21] And when you get it in your brain, you'll be like, oh, I'm going to go knock out some
[01:35:24] projects.
[01:35:25] Maybe do a little MacCon.
[01:35:26] Maybe go on the Mac.
[01:35:27] Whatever.
[01:35:28] You know, it's just good.
[01:35:29] Or am I just cruise by the pool?
[01:35:32] No, we don't do that.
[01:35:34] That's not getting out of it.
[01:35:35] That makes one of us.
[01:35:37] I was getting after it in the pool.
[01:35:39] How about that?
[01:35:40] I guess I year approved.
[01:35:41] Yeah, not it's good man.
[01:35:42] Like I said, it may be even more into tea because it's like, you know, it's like
[01:35:48] you get into, well, I did.
[01:35:50] I'm not going to say, this is what happens.
[01:35:52] But I'm saying, you're like, okay, I like this tea.
[01:35:54] I like the brand, you know?
[01:35:56] So you're, and then you appreciate the experience when it goes down.
[01:35:59] You know, you're more familiar with it now.
[01:36:01] Now I want to see people drinking tea.
[01:36:02] I'm like, yeah, yeah.
[01:36:03] And some people been like, whoa, some people emailed and said, whoa, is it really
[01:36:07] like, jocquo, you made this tea?
[01:36:09] I'm really.
[01:36:10] Yeah, yeah.
[01:36:11] I went through, it took like, it took a few months to make.
[01:36:13] Cause I kind of, I'd send back, oh, no, make it a little bit more this.
[01:36:16] A little bit less of that.
[01:36:17] And eventually, when I got the, the right combination thing, then it was okay.
[01:36:23] And, well, they're like, okay, well, for marketing, what do you want to do?
[01:36:25] And I go, oh, it's, oh, here's the marketing.
[01:36:27] I'm, I'm Mr. Marketing over here.
[01:36:29] Put it in a black box.
[01:36:31] Oh, what should we call it?
[01:36:32] Oh, I think of a good original title.
[01:36:34] Jocquo tea.
[01:36:35] How's that?
[01:36:36] Okay, so we got Jocquo tea.
[01:36:37] Good.
[01:36:38] There it is.
[01:36:39] And that's my marketing strategy.
[01:36:41] Hey, hey.
[01:36:44] Yeah, man.
[01:36:45] No, I like it.
[01:36:46] I actually did a very high-ranking company to come in and do an assessment of our customers.
[01:36:50] Guess what?
[01:36:51] Our customers are out to kick ass.
[01:36:53] They don't want all this crap.
[01:36:55] They want something that's going to make them crush the world.
[01:36:59] Yeah.
[01:37:00] So, there you go.
[01:37:01] We don't need to put any, you know, images of whatever on it.
[01:37:05] Yeah, doing some kind of demographic studies on what can interest and, you know, who's
[01:37:10] the target market, the target market?
[01:37:11] I don't care.
[01:37:12] I know the target market is.
[01:37:14] The target market is my people out there that are getting after it.
[01:37:17] There's the target market.
[01:37:18] You know, there you go.
[01:37:19] I just hope I can get it.
[01:37:20] I just thought I hope this doesn't fall into the wrong ants.
[01:37:25] What if criminal, criminally-minded people or people that are, you know, have evil thoughts?
[01:37:30] Maybe they start drinking white tea.
[01:37:32] We might be in trouble.
[01:37:33] Yeah.
[01:37:34] We might have to bolster up and drink more white tea.
[01:37:36] Yeah, or they could switch over to the old discipline equals freedom, kind of situation.
[01:37:40] And, you know, I'm just saying, theoretically, that could be something.
[01:37:43] Yeah.
[01:37:44] They're good.
[01:37:45] This is good, man.
[01:37:46] It looks good.
[01:37:47] Yep.
[01:37:48] Pretty good.
[01:37:49] Pretty good.
[01:37:50] All right.
[01:37:51] Cool.
[01:37:52] Jocco-white tea.
[01:37:53] You know what?
[01:37:54] On Amazon.com.
[01:37:54] After you click through, click through.
[01:37:56] Yeah.
[01:37:57] Which, you know, there's a whole tail behind the click through right now.
[01:38:00] Yeah.
[01:38:01] Yeah.
[01:38:02] It's kind of, and we have to make sure, because that's one of the main ways to support
[01:38:05] the podcast, is to click through.
[01:38:08] But if in the past you saved, first of all, if you had the true, the true, the true
[01:38:12] is no-in-void.
[01:38:14] We got shut down by Amazon.
[01:38:15] It was, let's just say they didn't really like it that much.
[01:38:17] They didn't like that much, because I've been proven wrong in the world.
[01:38:21] This is one of the times I've been wrong.
[01:38:23] There is such a thing as getting after it too much.
[01:38:25] Yeah.
[01:38:26] And apparently we were getting after it.
[01:38:27] Troopers were getting after it too much with the true, but tool.
[01:38:30] So they shut down the true, but tool.
[01:38:32] Okay.
[01:38:33] So if you're still having the true, I don't know if it's still work.
[01:38:35] But if you're still having it, you think you're using it.
[01:38:37] You're not supporting the podcast.
[01:38:39] So what you have to do.
[01:38:40] And also if you have your old link saved that would click you into Amazon.
[01:38:47] And you thought, oh, I just used this.
[01:38:48] And I'll just save the, what's that called a favorite?
[01:38:50] If you made it a favorite part of it.
[01:38:51] Before, if you bookmarked it, then you got to erase that bookmark.
[01:38:56] You got to go back to jockelpodcast.com or back to jockelstore.com.
[01:39:00] And you've got to make a new bookmark that has the new click through the Amazon.
[01:39:05] So we can get Amazon back in the game supporting the podcast.
[01:39:09] So again, it's not costing you anything.
[01:39:11] All it's going to cost you is that short period of time to click through.
[01:39:14] And that way we can support the podcast.
[01:39:15] That way we can buy more knives for the table.
[01:39:19] Yep.
[01:39:20] And that's what we're looking to do.
[01:39:21] Yeah.
[01:39:22] And Amazon's not mad at us.
[01:39:23] They were just like, hey, the true, true, true, true.
[01:39:25] Too heavy.
[01:39:26] It's too heavy.
[01:39:27] Mm-hmm.
[01:39:28] It's like when, what was that book we just did where the Germans were mad.
[01:39:32] The Americans were getting after too much.
[01:39:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:39:35] This is unethical.
[01:39:36] Like theoretically from Amazon's perspective, like the Nazis, they thought, man,
[01:39:42] these guys are getting after this.
[01:39:43] Too much.
[01:39:44] This true, true, true thing is, we must arrest.
[01:39:46] So there's no more true bookmark from from jockelpodcast.com or from the jockelstore.com.
[01:39:58] All right.
[01:39:59] So that's good.
[01:40:00] That was a really good analogy right there by the way.
[01:40:02] The Nazis.
[01:40:03] Yeah.
[01:40:04] It's good.
[01:40:05] I'm not trying to say,
[01:40:06] it was fascist in what Amazon did.
[01:40:08] No, because it wasn't.
[01:40:10] You know what?
[01:40:11] It's a great, it actually really is truly a great program.
[01:40:14] Yeah.
[01:40:14] It really is a great program.
[01:40:15] It's very supportive of us.
[01:40:17] And it's cool for Amazon because people are ordering stuff through Amazon.
[01:40:20] I love it by and stuff and doing it through our website makes me feel good.
[01:40:25] It's like another excuse to just buy more books.
[01:40:28] I'm buying books at a ridiculous rate right now.
[01:40:30] It's actually, it's almost embarrassing.
[01:40:32] How many books I'm buying right now?
[01:40:34] Because everybody recommends me a book.
[01:40:36] And I used to say, well, maybe I'll take a look at it.
[01:40:38] I don't have time to do that anymore.
[01:40:38] Now I just order it.
[01:40:39] Just bring it to me.
[01:40:41] Amazon.
[01:40:41] I want it today.
[01:40:42] Yeah.
[01:40:43] Yeah.
[01:40:44] How cool is that?
[01:40:45] Yeah.
[01:40:46] Amazon Prime.
[01:40:47] Same day delivery.
[01:40:48] Bring me my books.
[01:40:49] Yeah.
[01:40:50] You know what else is cool?
[01:40:51] So I was going to mark up the book, the glory of the trenches.
[01:40:56] But I didn't want to mark it up obviously because it's an old beautiful copy.
[01:40:59] So I bought a new one.
[01:41:00] Okay.
[01:41:01] Now when you buy these certain books from Amazon,
[01:41:06] they print them immediately.
[01:41:08] All right.
[01:41:09] So this book has got printed on the 22nd of September for me.
[01:41:13] And then I just ordered it.
[01:41:13] So I could mark this one up.
[01:41:15] Yeah.
[01:41:16] It didn't arrive before I went on my trip.
[01:41:17] So I did it on another copy.
[01:41:20] So anyways.
[01:41:21] Yeah.
[01:41:22] They will print a lot of these books that we're bringing out, that are rare books, that
[01:41:25] are old books, that are out of print books.
[01:41:26] They just reprint them.
[01:41:27] Yeah.
[01:41:28] So you can get a book printed.
[01:41:30] They'll bring the ones out here on the West Coast are printed in San Bernardino, California,
[01:41:34] San Bernardino.
[01:41:35] There you go.
[01:41:36] And what?
[01:41:37] You order it.
[01:41:38] They drive it down that day.
[01:41:39] Oh, yeah.
[01:41:40] I don't know what, man.
[01:41:41] I don't know.
[01:41:42] It's awesome.
[01:41:43] Yeah.
[01:41:44] Cool.
[01:41:45] But yeah.
[01:41:46] If you want to support this podcast in that way.
[01:41:48] Which is a great way.
[01:41:49] And we really appreciate it.
[01:41:51] That's awesome stuff.
[01:41:52] It definitely helps us do what we do.
[01:41:55] Yeah.
[01:41:56] Yeah.
[01:41:57] Thanks.
[01:41:58] But yeah.
[01:41:59] It's on jockelstore.com and jockelpikets.com.
[01:42:02] Click through.
[01:42:04] What other ways can people support this podcast?
[01:42:07] Well, obviously, the obvious way is subscribe to it on iTunes.
[01:42:14] Right?
[01:42:15] If you haven't already.
[01:42:16] And also the YouTube.
[01:42:18] Again, and I say this all the time.
[01:42:20] I'm putting more videos on there.
[01:42:22] It's cool because I'll put little excerpts.
[01:42:24] You know, where, because people on Twitter and stuff, they'll be like, hey, can you just isolate this one?
[01:42:30] Sure.
[01:42:35] Or they'll be like, hey, release this excerpt.
[01:42:37] I want to make a video.
[01:42:39] You can get the videos from YouTube and stuff.
[01:42:42] So they'll be like, hey, episode, I don't know, 40.
[01:42:44] You know, the last closing thing.
[01:42:46] Anyway, so I'll put stuff, not just excerpts, but other videos other than the whole episode of the podcast.
[01:42:54] And when a lot of times when you do those, sometimes they're just excerpts.
[01:42:58] But sometimes there's other things happening in those.
[01:43:01] Thanks, sure.
[01:43:02] Sure.
[01:43:03] I mean, sometimes you make full new video.
[01:43:05] Like the good video where does this come from?
[01:43:09] Yes, yes.
[01:43:10] And I think just as I'll speak for the voice of everyone else, myself included and everyone else,
[01:43:15] that's the thing, this podcast, that's not named echo.
[01:43:17] I think we all want to see more videos.
[01:43:20] That's me.
[01:43:21] And I'm trying to, you know, I'm trying to make that hint to you.
[01:43:25] I think I'm making it to you all while.
[01:43:26] I know it's hard work.
[01:43:28] Yeah, you.
[01:43:29] But you know, we're just trying to let you know, we hear on, you know, the listeners and the,
[01:43:34] and the troopers here, we all want to see a little bit more activity.
[01:43:37] Yep.
[01:43:38] And I think I personally think that the more people are subscribing to YouTube,
[01:43:42] the more motivated you're going to get.
[01:43:45] Yeah.
[01:43:46] Yeah.
[01:43:47] I hate to say relying on motivation.
[01:43:48] No, no, no.
[01:43:49] Because I know, I rely on a discipline.
[01:43:51] And I wish you were like, you know what, my discipline is.
[01:43:53] I'm making, you know, one video every two weeks, but I would see that kind of discipline.
[01:43:57] Yeah.
[01:43:57] Really?
[01:43:58] From the end.
[01:43:59] There you go.
[01:44:03] All right.
[01:44:04] Well, hey, we're one step closer.
[01:44:05] Yeah.
[01:44:06] And, you know, expect it.
[01:44:08] Maybe not.
[01:44:09] Today, maybe not tomorrow.
[01:44:10] But I'm on it.
[01:44:11] I'm on it.
[01:44:12] Oh, I like that.
[01:44:13] Speaking of being on it.
[01:44:14] Oh, look what you did there.
[01:44:16] Oh, nicely done.
[01:44:17] Nice.
[01:44:18] Deep on it.
[01:44:19] Deep on it.
[01:44:20] Um, okay. So on it, these supplements, we all know that.
[01:44:25] A lot of people, a lot of people don't think that I work out just because they don't see me.
[01:44:29] They hear my voice.
[01:44:30] So like, oh, I could obviously doesn't work out.
[01:44:32] But Jaco obviously works out.
[01:44:34] Jaco does take supplements.
[01:44:36] So people are like, oh, yeah.
[01:44:38] What is Jaco take?
[01:44:41] Jaco takes krill oil.
[01:44:43] Jaco takes strong bone.
[01:44:45] And Jaco takes alpha brain.
[01:44:48] There you go.
[01:44:49] Strong bone is from on it.
[01:44:51] Oh, yeah.
[01:44:52] Yeah.
[01:44:53] All right.
[01:44:54] There you go.
[01:44:55] So yeah, these are actual supplements.
[01:44:56] I take the exact same thing.
[01:44:57] Not the strong bone.
[01:44:58] I set for the strong bone.
[01:44:59] I love to one out.
[01:45:00] What?
[01:45:01] Shrimp tech.
[01:45:02] Shrimp tech.
[01:45:03] Shrimp tech.
[01:45:04] Yeah.
[01:45:05] Okay.
[01:45:05] There you go.
[01:45:06] Shrimp tech is is good.
[01:45:08] And I actually, we train today.
[01:45:10] It's Sunday.
[01:45:11] We train today.
[01:45:12] We train today hard.
[01:45:13] I did not take shrimp tech today.
[01:45:15] And I didn't feel like I brought my egg in the way I wanted to.
[01:45:18] So it's too bad.
[01:45:20] Yeah.
[01:45:21] No, no.
[01:45:22] It was good enough.
[01:45:23] Yeah.
[01:45:24] But I felt like I was breathing harder.
[01:45:29] Yeah.
[01:45:30] Yeah.
[01:45:31] Good rolls today.
[01:45:32] Yeah.
[01:45:33] Good.
[01:45:34] Taylor.
[01:45:35] Yeah.
[01:45:36] He's when does he compete next week?
[01:45:38] Yeah.
[01:45:39] Yeah.
[01:45:39] It's like, it's very similar.
[01:45:40] Yeah.
[01:45:41] He's good man.
[01:45:42] Yeah.
[01:45:43] This early on too.
[01:45:44] Even if he wasn't this early on.
[01:45:46] Anyway, we'll talk about Taylor soon.
[01:45:49] Yeah.
[01:45:50] Even more.
[01:45:51] But yeah, I get the cake.
[01:45:53] On it has the best supplements.
[01:45:54] We all know that.
[01:45:56] All legit because a lot of supplements straight up don't work.
[01:45:59] They some supplements rely on the placebo effect.
[01:46:02] Literally rely on that.
[01:46:04] Like that's its effectiveness.
[01:46:06] That's why it's effective because of police.
[01:46:08] Police, police, police, not on it.
[01:46:10] You can find out about this stuff on the website.
[01:46:11] But if you want 10% off those supplements that you're going to get.
[01:46:15] On it dot com slash jockel 10% off.
[01:46:19] Boom.
[01:46:20] I like it.
[01:46:21] So yeah, do that man.
[01:46:22] Support yourself at the same time.
[01:46:24] That's why I like to think.
[01:46:27] And then how about those.
[01:46:29] My what the jockel store.
[01:46:31] Jockel store has some new items.
[01:46:33] So if you look on Instagram, you posted a picture today.
[01:46:36] I did.
[01:46:37] I did. Yes.
[01:46:38] But now today is relative because when this podcast comes out,
[01:46:42] it won't be true.
[01:46:43] Yeah.
[01:46:44] Did.
[01:46:45] October 2nd.
[01:46:46] Oh, people are going to attract the date.
[01:46:48] Okay.
[01:46:49] Okay.
[01:46:50] My dad's birthday by the way.
[01:46:51] Did it happen birthday?
[01:46:52] I was father.
[01:46:53] Happy birthday.
[01:46:54] BC.
[01:46:55] William Charles Junne.
[01:46:57] Bravo Charlie.
[01:46:58] Because my BC on coi happy birthday dad.
[01:47:00] Love you.
[01:47:01] Um, so on my dad's birthday, jockel posted a picture on Instagram.
[01:47:06] October 2nd.
[01:47:08] And one of the comments.
[01:47:09] I just read it.
[01:47:11] Little while ago.
[01:47:12] Um, it says, hey, where do I get that good shirt?
[01:47:15] Or where do I get a jockel shirt?
[01:47:17] Oh.
[01:47:18] That's an interesting question, right?
[01:47:20] Yeah.
[01:47:21] Because there's only one place in the world.
[01:47:23] You can get that.
[01:47:24] Yeah.
[01:47:24] And we say it a lot.
[01:47:25] But nonetheless, you know, it's obligated to listen to me talk about
[01:47:28] Jockel store.
[01:47:29] Yeah.
[01:47:30] Really?
[01:47:31] People fast forward when they get to you talking about stuff.
[01:47:33] I would not, I have not surprised.
[01:47:34] If people do, I'm not surprised.
[01:47:35] Are they missing some nuggets?
[01:47:37] They're missing some information.
[01:47:38] I think they're missing some information.
[01:47:39] I think they're missing some good times too.
[01:47:41] Yeah.
[01:47:42] Potentially, sure.
[01:47:43] Yes.
[01:47:44] So, how they're going to know it was B.C's birthday.
[01:47:48] To that to do?
[01:47:49] Yeah.
[01:47:50] That's the other way.
[01:47:51] Yeah.
[01:47:52] Great point.
[01:47:53] Yeah.
[01:47:54] So, I would say it's a little fast forward through these, but do what you like.
[01:47:59] You know, what if you're on your way to go do some pull-ups or something?
[01:48:02] And you're like, the books done.
[01:48:04] We're done with the book.
[01:48:05] Hmm.
[01:48:06] Time to do some pull-ups.
[01:48:08] Then that'd be cool.
[01:48:09] You know what's weird though when you listen to other podcasts?
[01:48:12] Well, specifically, if you listen to Joe Rogan's podcast, which I do, sometimes they're
[01:48:19] just straight talking.
[01:48:20] Yeah.
[01:48:21] Which is what we're doing right now.
[01:48:24] We are talking about it is enclosed around some subject matter, because we're talking
[01:48:29] about ways to support the podcast.
[01:48:32] So, yeah, but it's still like I said, there's some nuggets in there.
[01:48:35] Sure.
[01:48:36] That are important.
[01:48:37] Yeah.
[01:48:38] And even if they're not important.
[01:48:39] What's funny is even if they're not important.
[01:48:42] They're there.
[01:48:43] This is what I think is cool.
[01:48:45] When I go as I travel a lot and I've been traveling on and I'm starting to meet just
[01:48:50] like, troopers everywhere everywhere.
[01:48:53] I was all over the world all the way from New Zealand to East Coast up and down East
[01:48:58] Coast.
[01:48:59] I meet meet troopers everywhere.
[01:49:01] And when I meet people, all of a sudden, it's like, it's like friends that you have
[01:49:05] inside jokes with.
[01:49:06] Right.
[01:49:07] Yeah.
[01:49:10] Yeah.
[01:49:11] And then they make cracks about this and about that and it's all from the podcast.
[01:49:12] So that's kind of cool.
[01:49:14] It's not just hey, get on here and get educated about life leadership business.
[01:49:19] War.
[01:49:20] You know what?
[01:49:21] Let's have some inside jokes that we can laugh at each other.
[01:49:24] When I show up at, you know, you're whatever you work to do some work myself.
[01:49:30] Yeah.
[01:49:31] Yeah.
[01:49:32] People come to the gym and they'll tell me good evening.
[01:49:33] You never stayed that.
[01:49:34] Oh, you like good evening.
[01:49:35] At least a quarter of the reviews for Jocquay T.
[01:49:40] We start off with Good evening, I go.
[01:49:43] Yes.
[01:49:44] Good evening.
[01:49:45] I don't even know what started that.
[01:49:50] I mean, obviously, I said it.
[01:49:51] I think you started it.
[01:49:52] No, I absolutely started it.
[01:49:54] But, but at some point, I mean, I don't know how else to introduce you, right?
[01:50:00] Other than to say, Good evening.
[01:50:02] Yeah, you just kept, you sort of just kept doing it.
[01:50:04] Yeah.
[01:50:05] Yeah.
[01:50:06] And you, your response is now standard, too.
[01:50:09] Well, what else would you say, you know?
[01:50:11] I guess you don't can't say much.
[01:50:12] Good evening.
[01:50:13] Good evening.
[01:50:14] Amen.
[01:50:15] I like it.
[01:50:16] I like it.
[01:50:17] I'm going to stick with Good evening.
[01:50:18] I think I like that.
[01:50:19] There it is.
[01:50:20] But to answer that question, let's say someone else had that question.
[01:50:24] Where do I get a Jocquay shirt?
[01:50:26] I'll tell you where you get a Jocquay shirt.
[01:50:29] Jocquay store.
[01:50:30] That's again.
[01:50:32] Love the marketing on that.
[01:50:34] Yeah.
[01:50:35] We got Scott Cree.
[01:50:36] We got Scott Cree.
[01:50:37] It's a store from Jocquay.
[01:50:39] It's online.com.
[01:50:41] Jocquay store.com.
[01:50:42] Yes, we have shirts there.
[01:50:45] We have travel mugs.
[01:50:47] You know, the kind you bring with you.
[01:50:49] They're not the, the sh- Oh, this kind.
[01:50:50] You can put your Jocquay T shirt.
[01:50:52] Yep.
[01:50:53] If you choose to, yes, exactly.
[01:50:55] And some, some bumper stickers that are kind of cool.
[01:50:58] They're on Jocquay store.com as well.
[01:51:01] And this one of the sticks on there, cool.
[01:51:03] We have patches.
[01:51:04] Okay, here's the thing about the patch about patches.
[01:51:06] Someone online saying, hey, get the Velcro patches.
[01:51:10] And I'm just not as familiar with the Velcro patches.
[01:51:13] We already had these other two patches.
[01:51:15] One is the Jiu-Jitsu patch.
[01:51:16] The other one is the Jiu-Jitsu patch, but it's all purpose patch.
[01:51:19] You know, you can iron it on, but you sew it on.
[01:51:21] Four inches by three inches.
[01:51:23] The Velcro patch up like that's a good idea.
[01:51:25] The Velcro patch.
[01:51:26] Let me get the same thing for it's 4x3.
[01:51:28] It's a Velcro patch.
[01:51:30] So it's cool for that.
[01:51:31] But you explained to me, those Velcro patches are interchangeable.
[01:51:35] The standard is 3x2.
[01:51:37] Yeah.
[01:51:38] Three across.
[01:51:39] So just understand the Velcro patch currently right now is 4x3.
[01:51:44] Did you get 2x3 in order?
[01:51:45] Yeah.
[01:51:46] So I got to, you know, I didn't finalize it, but they come in pretty quick.
[01:51:51] So just know, just be aware of the dimensions of the patch.
[01:51:54] If you want to do the interchangeable one, I guess technically you could put the 4x3.
[01:51:58] But we're not doing that.
[01:52:00] I'll get the 2x3 and...
[01:52:01] Don't encourage that.
[01:52:02] Yeah.
[01:52:03] Please.
[01:52:04] Yeah.
[01:52:05] Please not to give it to me.
[01:52:06] Nonetheless.
[01:52:07] They're on Jocco Store as well.
[01:52:09] The Jitsu patches there too, like I said.
[01:52:12] Rash guards are there.
[01:52:15] Big time.
[01:52:16] All on the Jocco Store.
[01:52:18] Somewhere on that corner.
[01:52:19] But they're there in full effect for sure.
[01:52:21] And they're good.
[01:52:23] Five emails.
[01:52:26] Today, saying they felt the 19%.
[01:52:30] Yeah.
[01:52:31] They've been performing.
[01:52:32] Allegedly.
[01:52:33] There's no alleged about it.
[01:52:35] Yes.
[01:52:36] How can you say that's alleged when people are, I factually felt the difference.
[01:52:39] Oh well, that it's just what they're...
[01:52:40] What they're just skepticking on?
[01:52:41] No.
[01:52:42] It's what they said.
[01:52:43] I wasn't there to witness it.
[01:52:44] Oh no.
[01:52:45] But if you're saying to tell you that a 19% improvement if they did not...
[01:52:47] But they alleged it that it was an allegation.
[01:52:50] No.
[01:52:51] I don't support you all that.
[01:52:52] Technically.
[01:52:53] We're falling out of grace here, man.
[01:52:54] When somebody tells me they got 19% improvement with the rashguard.
[01:52:57] Top get his fat.
[01:52:58] Yeah.
[01:52:59] Yeah.
[01:53:00] I would be lied to you.
[01:53:01] Otherwise, if you say, hey, give me my money back.
[01:53:03] I didn't get a 19% improvement.
[01:53:04] Yeah.
[01:53:04] That's good.
[01:53:05] That's too very good points.
[01:53:07] And with women's tank tops.
[01:53:10] I understand.
[01:53:11] It's fall.
[01:53:12] We're going into winter soon.
[01:53:14] Tank tops.
[01:53:17] I don't think that's a Southern Hemisphere people.
[01:53:19] Sure.
[01:53:20] Yeah.
[01:53:21] The West.
[01:53:21] Yeah.
[01:53:21] Because it's summer down there.
[01:53:22] It's going to be summertime soon.
[01:53:23] Down in New Zealand and Australia and South America.
[01:53:27] Yeah.
[01:53:28] And the Hawaii people as well.
[01:53:30] From Hawaii we don't know about that kind.
[01:53:32] And that's why you're saying, you don't understand what a hoodie is.
[01:53:36] Yeah.
[01:53:37] From Hawaii.
[01:53:38] Like we kind of...
[01:53:39] We know what a hoodie is.
[01:53:41] Yeah.
[01:53:41] We don't know what a hoodie is.
[01:53:42] We don't know.
[01:53:43] Yeah.
[01:53:44] So we're making hoodies.
[01:53:44] Yes.
[01:53:45] So we made it with consultation from Jocco and then some New England people.
[01:53:50] We got hoodies on the way as well.
[01:53:54] And women's t-shirts as well.
[01:53:57] Yeah.
[01:53:58] I was explaining to Echo that in New England.
[01:54:00] Like a hoodie is like something you wear every single day for nine months out of the year.
[01:54:09] You wear a hoodie.
[01:54:10] Yeah.
[01:54:11] Oh.
[01:54:12] I'm waking up.
[01:54:13] I'm putting on a hoodie.
[01:54:14] Yeah.
[01:54:15] That's what you do.
[01:54:16] Yes.
[01:54:17] So we got to make.
[01:54:19] And representing with their hoodie.
[01:54:22] And they'll be toasty or.
[01:54:23] Yeah.
[01:54:24] Which.
[01:54:25] Interesting for Echo Better Term.
[01:54:27] My wife is one of those hoodie people.
[01:54:30] You know the kind of where she wears a hoodie every single day.
[01:54:32] Even when it's not cold.
[01:54:34] Hmm.
[01:54:35] She'll be like, it's like a comfort zone thing, you know.
[01:54:37] It's just a bunch of them.
[01:54:38] But I don't even know how many.
[01:54:40] She even took Greg trains victory hoodie.
[01:54:44] Oh.
[01:54:45] And she uses Alan.
[01:54:46] That one of her many.
[01:54:47] Anyway.
[01:54:48] That's a good ho it.
[01:54:49] That was got those are good.
[01:54:50] Yeah.
[01:54:51] Yeah.
[01:54:52] So yeah.
[01:54:53] So there it is.
[01:54:54] We're going to have that coming out.
[01:54:55] That should be within the next two to three weeks.
[01:54:58] I think that's a fair amount of time to say.
[01:55:01] And it be accurate.
[01:55:02] So there it is.
[01:55:04] JoccoStore.com in the event of you wanting to support this podcast in that way.
[01:55:08] Get some stuff.
[01:55:09] Get a lot of things.
[01:55:10] Two things.
[01:55:11] Whatever you want.
[01:55:12] Once again appreciate all that support.
[01:55:14] So if you want, if you don't have a book that is written by a guy named Lave Babin, my brother
[01:55:20] and myself, we wrote a book.
[01:55:22] Call the stream ownership.
[01:55:23] Even you want to pick it up.
[01:55:24] You can pick it up.
[01:55:25] You know, an Amazon or anywhere else at the cell books.
[01:55:29] And we get so much good feedback on it.
[01:55:31] It's awesome.
[01:55:32] I appreciate all the positive feedback.
[01:55:34] You know, people read it and they say, this really helped me.
[01:55:38] You know, not just with the way I'm doing my business.
[01:55:41] But like with the normal stuff in the life.
[01:55:43] And the other cool thing is when people buy it for their team.
[01:55:45] You know, or they even buy it for the boss sometimes.
[01:55:48] So pick up extreme ownership.
[01:55:50] We did the audio to if you want to read it.
[01:55:52] If you don't want to read it because you know, time you just want to listen to it while you're in the in the traffic jam.
[01:55:56] Then just buy the audio book and you'll be good to go.
[01:55:59] So appreciate that.
[01:56:00] And then also if you dig that extreme ownership, you dig that concept.
[01:56:04] You can come out to something we're having here in Southern California in San Diego called the
[01:56:09] Master, the extreme ownership master. We're going to be talking about leadership.
[01:56:13] We're going to be talking about how to take the lessons that we learned in combat, which have been proven in combat.
[01:56:19] And how you can apply those same lessons doing leadership in business leadership in life.
[01:56:25] So we got a bunch of you are coming to us.
[01:56:28] And it's awesome.
[01:56:30] So and I had somebody email me the other day.
[01:56:34] And it said, say, hey, listen, I just wanted to let you know.
[01:56:38] I don't come into the master, but in the event, I don't get to meet you there.
[01:56:42] Then, you know, I just want to let you know.
[01:56:44] I really appreciate, you know, the podcast and the book and all that.
[01:56:48] And I didn't even respond yet.
[01:56:49] I don't think I could a lot of emails.
[01:56:51] But let me tell you something.
[01:56:52] If you come to the master, we're hanging out.
[01:56:54] It's not going to be one of these gigs where, you know, I'm back in the green room.
[01:56:58] We're going to go out, um, getting in character.
[01:57:00] Well, no, I, this is my character.
[01:57:03] And I won't be backstage.
[01:57:04] I'll be in, I'll be sitting at a table with you.
[01:57:06] I'll be talking. I'll be, and lace can be doing the same thing.
[01:57:09] So that's one of the major differentiators we want to have in this thing is that,
[01:57:14] because, you know, late for night go to these events all the time because we speak at them.
[01:57:17] You know, leadership events and conferences and all that.
[01:57:20] The biggest differentiator that we want to make is we want to be.
[01:57:23] We want to have the contact.
[01:57:25] We want to have the face to face.
[01:57:26] So if you're coming, not only are you going to meet me, we're going to kick it.
[01:57:31] We're going to be hanging out.
[01:57:32] We're going to be having dinner lunch.
[01:57:33] We're going to be going over problems when we talk about solutions.
[01:57:35] So don't think that I'm going to be.
[01:57:38] And that, and that late for is going to be all hiding in the background.
[01:57:41] No, we're going to be there.
[01:57:42] I'll be meeting you.
[01:57:43] Will we do an workout also?
[01:57:44] Some people want to try.
[01:57:45] If you train that you get to and you come out here.
[01:57:48] Come out here a little bit early or stay a little bit late.
[01:57:51] And we're going to go to the gym.
[01:57:53] We're going to go to the victory MMA.
[01:57:54] And you can challenge echelotronals to a death match.
[01:57:57] The other node will be there.
[01:57:59] We'll be there rolling.
[01:58:00] So, you know, if you, if you, if you stay Friday, if you stay Saturday,
[01:58:04] if you stay Sunday, I will be there Friday night.
[01:58:08] I'll be there Saturday day.
[01:58:09] I'll be there Sunday day.
[01:58:10] And we'll be getting it on.
[01:58:12] So come on out for that for that monster.
[01:58:16] And that'll be that'll be awesome.
[01:58:18] Also, if you can't come out to the monster,
[01:58:21] but you just want to kind of kick it and keep these things going on.
[01:58:25] And you want to join the crew.
[01:58:27] Then all you got to do is get on social media,
[01:58:32] which, which, which, which, I didn't really understand social media a year ago.
[01:58:37] You know, I didn't know what it was all about.
[01:58:39] But now what I know is I get to talk to people and I get to get to grow my knowledge from other people
[01:58:45] who, who can communicate things, who ask really good questions that I got to get research or I know an answer to
[01:58:50] and then they ask me something else and so, so that's awesome.
[01:58:53] And funny bunch of people post all kinds of funny stuff.
[01:58:56] So I'm getting entertained.
[01:58:58] And we're getting, you know, a crew.
[01:59:01] And having a bunch of people there that are like-minded and is, is, is fun to have.
[01:59:06] And so I appreciate it. If you want to find us on social media.
[01:59:09] Echo is, by the way, he's at Echo Charles.
[01:59:13] And that's on Instagram. That's on Twitter.
[01:59:17] That's on that Facebookie.
[01:59:19] And I am also on social media.
[01:59:25] And I am at Jockel Willink on Twitter on Instagram on the Facebookie.
[01:59:30] I am also there.
[01:59:33] And I guess that's about it for this week.
[01:59:39] We don't think we have time for the Q&A.
[01:59:43] We'll push that.
[01:59:45] And in the meantime, you know, again, I know we got to- I'm meeting people all over the place.
[01:59:54] And thank you all for supporting this podcast.
[01:59:57] Thank you all for doing what you do. Meet fire fighters, working with firefighters, meet police officers,
[02:00:02] work with police officers, the military folks that are emailing me.
[02:00:05] The guys that are overseas right now, fighting terror.
[02:00:09] Thank all of you.
[02:00:11] You all you uniform folks were what you do for home-aligned overseas and here at home.
[02:00:16] And for everybody else that I'm meeting, I'm meeting people from all kinds of businesses.
[02:00:20] All of you have goals.
[02:00:21] You're trying to make things happen.
[02:00:23] You're not calling, you're not calling us up.
[02:00:25] You're not calling life and I help unless you're trying to dominate.
[02:00:28] So we love the fact that we get to go to places where you got people that are out there trying to kick ass,
[02:00:34] trying to crush it.
[02:00:35] And that's what propels American keeps our country strong, keeps our country free.
[02:00:40] So thank you for what you're doing in all those jobs, all you in the workforce.
[02:00:46] It's awesome.
[02:00:47] We appreciate it.
[02:00:48] And there's one thing we want back from you.
[02:00:50] And as we want to make sure that you keep getting after it.
[02:00:54] And so until next time, this is Echo and Jockel out.