Jocko Podcast 42 Fallen Hero Mikey Monsoor, SEAL Vet Andrew Paul

2016-09-28T15:42:07Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @Jockowillink @theandrewMpaul @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:11:54 - Andrew Paul 0:16:36 - BUDS with Leif 0:19:52 - Detailed to Boat Unit 0:22:54 - Delta Platoon, Task Unit Bruiser 0:27:30 - Work-Up, Mikey Monsoor Stories, Learning about Leadership, Rough Tactics 0:52:17 - Deployment. Challenges, Stories, and Leadership 1:16:25 - Homecoming / Mikey KIA 1:29:13 - Rough Transitions to Civilian Life 1:43:24 - The Unassuming Badass in the Mortgage Business 1:53:39 - Closing / Mikey Monsoor

AI summary of episode

He was like actually surprised like when you finally told me you know you like man, you know I was kind of thought you might not like me, you know because You know smaller and and You know I don't look like a seal and then he and I turned out to be good friends, but I remember we're out doing land warfare training and this is like where you know you're cutting the metal like you said You're getting to know each other and you know the guys in the platoon Also trying to figure out what these new guys like all right, what have I what have we got here? it's a way light-hearted question compared to let's go So when you go into the mortgage industry, yeah, and you know there's other people in the office as well Like what did they think about did they know you know you're you're you're past they find out you know, but it's hard to right because in the seal teams we have We have a quiet Professionalism and so one of the things that I've struggled with is you know And you know for us and for those of you don't know see you go through a work up prior going on deployment Which is now you're working together for the first time this is when I'm getting to know you guys You guys are getting to know me we're all getting to know each other where the whole the whole unit is coming together as a team So the laser him and you if you see the video like like you hear guys going like guys are witnessing like nobody's been T-he's like nobody else was gonna happen right now, Yeah, whereas like guys I mean that would be a massive miscalculation You know like really end of life event extinction my event kind of decision To be not to counter I know exactly what you're saying but like The facts are people don't mess with me when I'm out in public. yeah, those are these are helpful men because Yeah, like if they're like hey jacco stop saying like like all the time No, I don't say like right and I talked about this too for those of you are on the podcast You can't you know that are listening and you doesn't look like stereotypical seal He's a hundred and fifty five pounds He's what it how tall are you five seven five seven Susan look he's not your stereotypical seal looking guy now again that the public with that the public with things I guys gonna say There's no stereotype and some of the most badass guys are there every size But this is something that Andrew said to me one time which was You know So I go back in there and I go in and glow for Mikey's palace I go back in there and we just said Hey man you want some of these have beef jerky that's so does he'd have like romans romony rules and he'd always had He had like this heating element like once like you plug into the wall He'd like hey man I know what he's doing I know he's making this isn't let me explain this down the chain of command That's right and that's so helpful and so helpful and when you got guys in the puttune or any organization a high performing organization That are really strong-willed and have strong opinions and by the way are an intelligent and it can make really Articular points as to why they don't agree with something You know again my role in that in that situation Was to ensure that mission success continued to happen that we were still effective as a unit and that meant me Kind of behind the scenes trying to keep keep some guys on board. so That's life Charlie Platoon and when he was on that first podcast We talked about a bunch of things, but one of the main focuses of our conversation was Some of the brothers that we lost Mark Lee who is the first seal killed in Iraq We talked about big holes Ryan Job Who was gravely wounded in Ramadi and who later died after complications From a surgery to repair those wounds then finally we talked about Chris Kyle who Was also in Charlie Platoon was the lead sniper and point man and who ended up writing the book American sniper Which was you know turned into a very successful movie and Chris as you know Was senselessly murdered as he tried to help out a fellow veteran and On that podcast we didn't talk in any depth at all about Mikey Montsour Who is another one of our brother seals from task unit bruiser Who's also killed in Ramadi and if you don't know Mikey was posh and was the award at the Medal of Honor after he Smothered a grenade with his body in order to save three of our other teammates And one of the reasons I didn't want to focus on Mikey during that podcast is because Mike he was in Delta, but to As opposed to Charlie Ptun Charlie's two Patoons in the task unit Charlie and Delta and Charlie was Life was the Patoon commander and Tony a Friday who was on the podcast as well. So so Any is there anything else again without without going into Your personal You know your personal interactions with this incredible family That you want to say and maybe from the perspective of As much as I hate to say this there's gonna be other people that are gonna do this job Being this person that does the notification Is there anything else that you could give advice to people that have to do this job or you know If they if that ever be falls people that I mean we get a lot Andrew we get a lot of big lot of military guys that that reach out to me all the time that are active duty that are doing it up to work or you know, so he was just you know, you know kind of like hopped to or whatever in a very I don't want to make that sound too extreme, you know, but he was surprised to see the command oh and I'm gonna tell you what like it had these like two modes And one where you could shoot or you could like put it right up to the guy You know It's kind of like getting the band back together You know, and those and look those two guys had just come off of Not the greatest deployments either in terms of a junior officer seal right because they were deployed and they were the Assistant commanders And they were getting stuck with not so fun work, you know, so that we were stoked to be all right They were so close. I get the brief and figure out who it is So Start figuring out okay, so now it's now it's a race for those of you that don't know I mean look here's a thing We live in a 24 seven news world and it's a race to notify the family before they find out for some other means and He lives up in Orange County so we started assembling a team and you know Admirals and Commodore's are involved and It look This is the second guy that we have not lost seals on our act to this point mark and Mike now so um You know, it's who's gonna go to the notification Yeah, I'm here to check in like Like the all-seeing I just like Glances like you said what I'll so I'm checking into Buds Wearing that I'm like maybe I should go put in for money.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 42 with echo Charles and me joccal willing
[00:00:07] Good evening echo good evening
[00:00:10] now
[00:00:12] in podcast
[00:00:14] number 11
[00:00:16] We brought on life-babbin who was the Charlie Platoon commander
[00:00:22] Charlie Platoon was a part of task unit bruiser. Obviously, life is one of my brothers guy wrote the book
[00:00:28] Extreme ownership with so
[00:00:32] That's life Charlie Platoon and when he was on that first podcast
[00:00:36] We talked about a bunch of things, but one of the main focuses of our conversation
[00:00:41] was
[00:00:43] Some of the brothers that we lost
[00:00:46] Mark Lee who is the first seal killed in Iraq
[00:00:49] We talked about big holes
[00:00:52] Ryan Job
[00:00:54] Who was gravely wounded in Ramadi and who later died after complications
[00:01:00] From a surgery to repair those wounds
[00:01:03] then finally we talked about
[00:01:06] Chris Kyle who
[00:01:08] Was also in Charlie Platoon was the lead sniper and point man and who ended up writing the book American sniper
[00:01:15] Which was you know turned into a very successful movie and Chris as you know
[00:01:20] Was senselessly murdered as he tried to help out a fellow veteran and
[00:01:31] On that podcast we didn't talk in any depth at all about
[00:01:36] Mikey Montsour
[00:01:38] Who is another one of our brother seals from task unit bruiser
[00:01:43] Who's also killed in Ramadi and if you don't know Mikey was posh and was the award at the Medal of Honor
[00:01:49] after he
[00:01:51] Smothered a grenade with his body in order to save three of our other teammates
[00:01:58] And one of the reasons I didn't want to focus on Mikey during that podcast is because Mike he was in Delta, but to
[00:02:06] As opposed to Charlie Ptun Charlie's two Patoons in the task unit Charlie and Delta and
[00:02:13] Charlie was
[00:02:15] Life was the Patoon commander and Tony a Friday who was on the podcast as well. He was the the Patoon chief and before I
[00:02:23] Went and talked about Mikey. I wanted to bring somebody from Delta
[00:02:27] Platoon on the podcast
[00:02:31] That's a little bit trickier than it sounds because most of the guys from Delta, but to our
[00:02:37] Still active duty and
[00:02:39] The ones that aren't active duty. I will they're not around. I couldn't get get hold of them or if I get it hold of them. They
[00:02:47] They were busy or I they were out in the area so it's just been hard. It's been a challenge
[00:02:52] but I get to want to wait and
[00:02:54] finally
[00:02:58] And today we're lucky because I got one of my one of my good bros here
[00:03:02] Guy by the name of Andrew Paul who was the assistant platoon commander in Delta platoon
[00:03:09] Task unit bruiser seal team three
[00:03:13] But I wanted to start off today
[00:03:16] By reading a speech
[00:03:19] that I gave
[00:03:21] At one of the ceremonies that took place when Mikey
[00:03:25] Was awarded the Medal of Honor
[00:03:27] And this was not the ceremony that took place at the White House with President Bush which
[00:03:33] Actually the entirety of Task unit bruiser did attend that and it was awesome
[00:03:39] But I gave this speech at a navy ceremony that took place. I think it took place later in the day or perhaps the next day
[00:03:47] At the navy memorial in Washington DC and
[00:03:50] That day there was a ton of senior naval officers in attendance and
[00:03:57] Basically the whole of the senior army of the of the navy was there
[00:04:02] You know this the chief naval operations in the sector in the navy and there was a bunch of other
[00:04:07] Medal of Honor winners there included a couple other seal Medal of Honor winners
[00:04:13] And it was a
[00:04:16] A very fitting day
[00:04:18] It was a great honor for me to be able to give this speech
[00:04:27] And here it is
[00:04:31] Ladies and gentlemen
[00:04:34] It is obviously very humbling to be here today as it was humbling to be on the battlefield of Ramadi with my fellow seals
[00:04:42] And the two two eight brigade combat team the iron soldiers and then the one one AD the ready first combat team
[00:04:54] Which was formed up by our brothers from the army navy air force and Marines
[00:05:02] And it included such hallowed units as the first to the 506 band of brothers
[00:05:08] The one three seven bandits and the three eight Marines
[00:05:16] I met Mike Montsore when he checked into seal team three as a new highly motivated young frog man
[00:05:24] As we trained and prepared to deploy to Iraq everyone learned that Mike was an incredible person
[00:05:30] He was gifted at everything he did hardworking funny and selfless
[00:05:34] He was the ultimate teammate the ultimate friend
[00:05:45] When Mike died a picture of him circulated in the news
[00:05:50] It showed Mike and his platoon mates in the war torn streets of Ramadi shrouded in a mist of greenish yellow smoke
[00:05:58] Which was used to mask their movement from the enemy
[00:06:01] That picture says so much
[00:06:08] Mike's gun is at the ready his face is calm almost smiling despite the obvious chaos and danger around him
[00:06:17] Ramadi at the time was the epicenter of the insurgency in Iraq a city filled with peril
[00:06:24] The hardened enemy was bent on destruction they fought with ruthlessness constantly on the attack with
[00:06:30] Machingons, mortars, grenades and IEDs
[00:06:36] Brave men died or wounded every day
[00:06:40] And every day brave men continue to push forward into the fray
[00:06:48] For those of us who were there that picture of Mike captures all of this
[00:06:52] In the picture his brother seals are nearby but Mike is out front
[00:07:00] I have looked at this picture over and over again and it speaks to me
[00:07:06] As someone that had the pleasure of knowing Mike he is a friend and had the honor of serving with him on the battle field
[00:07:13] This photograph tells me a story
[00:07:18] As I look at that picture
[00:07:20] I hear a voice in a humble but confident tone
[00:07:27] This voice says to me
[00:07:32] I am Michael Monsour
[00:07:35] I am patrolling through the streets of Ramadi
[00:07:38] It is a city devastated by war
[00:07:41] Bullet holes cover the rubber rubble the buildings
[00:07:45] Burned out cars litter the streets
[00:07:47] I am walking just behind my point man
[00:07:52] I am ready
[00:07:54] My eyes sting from the sweat
[00:07:57] My gun and gear are heavy but these things do not bother me
[00:08:02] There is no comfort here but this is the life I have chosen and there is no other place I would rather be
[00:08:11] I am Michael Monsour
[00:08:13] I pray and I believe
[00:08:15] My faith is my shelter my faith is my strength
[00:08:21] Fear thrives in this place but fear is no match for my faith faith conquerors all
[00:08:29] The word of the Lord proves true he is a shield for all those who take refuge in him
[00:08:37] Lord protect my brothers above all else
[00:08:39] You have made me ready to protect them
[00:08:47] I am Michael Monsour
[00:08:48] I am far away from home
[00:08:50] I miss my family
[00:08:51] I miss my mother my father my sister and my brothers
[00:08:57] Everything I am is rooted in them
[00:09:00] I want to hold my nephews and nieces again
[00:09:03] I want to make them smile and laugh
[00:09:05] But I am far away from home
[00:09:11] Instead I smile at the Iraqi children when we pass them by
[00:09:15] When we encounter Iraqi families I treat them with respect and dignity
[00:09:20] I know the importance of family because there is nothing more important to me than my family
[00:09:26] I am Michael Monsour
[00:09:34] I love my country my fellow seals and the man fighting alongside us
[00:09:37] The man fighting alongside us in the streets are infantry men grunts
[00:09:42] I know these grunts are not just soldiers and marines but fathers and brothers and sons
[00:09:49] I know because my father and brother were also grunts proud marine riflemen
[00:09:58] We are fighting a determined enemy but we are strong our strength is our brotherhood
[00:10:04] Soldiers sailors, airmen and marines fighting together
[00:10:09] A brotherhood bound by sweat and blood and tears
[00:10:13] Together we live in dust and dirt and filth and death
[00:10:23] Death is everywhere
[00:10:25] Many of my brothers have fallen
[00:10:29] Mark is gone
[00:10:33] But we fight on
[00:10:36] For the men to our left and right we fight on
[00:10:40] I'm so proud to be part of this band of brothers
[00:10:48] I am Michael Monsour
[00:10:50] I am ready
[00:10:52] Forged by faith and family
[00:10:55] Molded by belief and brotherhood
[00:10:58] I have lived life to its fullest
[00:11:01] I have not looked back
[00:11:04] I leave nothing but love
[00:11:06] And I have no regrets
[00:11:11] I am Michael Monsour
[00:11:13] I am the frogman on the high ground
[00:11:19] And I have given everything
[00:11:22] for you
[00:11:24] And that was the speech
[00:11:40] And I did my best to
[00:11:45] Share my thoughts about Mikey
[00:11:48] And I am honored to have
[00:11:55] And you are all with me today
[00:11:57] Like I said the former assistant Patoon Commander from Delta Patoon
[00:12:03] To share some stories about
[00:12:05] Remodied about Mikey and about Tasking Abuser and about
[00:12:09] himself
[00:12:10] And the lessons that he learned over there
[00:12:15] And how he carried those lessons
[00:12:16] To civilian life and the kind of challenges he faced there
[00:12:24] So
[00:12:26] Andrew Paul
[00:12:28] My brother
[00:12:30] Welcome to the show
[00:12:31] Thanks for coming on
[00:12:33] Thanks for having me, bro
[00:12:35] It's an honor to be here and you know
[00:12:37] The main thing, listen to that speech, I remember when you gave it
[00:12:40] My hope and prayer today is that whenever I do here today
[00:12:43] It honors as a legacy of our brothers
[00:12:45] Absolutely
[00:12:47] Absolutely
[00:12:51] And we'll get into plenty of that
[00:12:56] But in order and I hate to do this because everybody does this when they start
[00:13:00] Like this type of situation
[00:13:02] It's almost like a bar pickup line
[00:13:04] You know, hey, where are you from?
[00:13:06] Right
[00:13:07] So
[00:13:08] That being said Andrew, so where are you from?
[00:13:11] Where am I from?
[00:13:11] From New England
[00:13:13] New Hampshire
[00:13:13] You know what we had Tony's Tony was just on another New England, that's right
[00:13:18] If I don't get some boys from Texas on here
[00:13:20] I'm gonna get I'm gonna get I'm gonna start here about it
[00:13:22] You're gonna be real hard to grow up in New England let me tell you it's cold
[00:13:25] Drew
[00:13:27] So so
[00:13:29] You grew up in New England and and by the way for those of you that just listen on the podcast
[00:13:35] What do you weigh?
[00:13:36] One
[00:13:37] 155 155 so the the the image that everyone has of the big ABC
[00:13:42] You'll is not first of all it's not true. They're seals coming every shape and every size and Andrew comes in the smaller size
[00:13:50] And so but how did you so so wait?
[00:13:53] How did you how did you have a hit how did you hear about the skills like what made you decide that that was what you wanted to do?
[00:13:57] Yeah, you know, I'm first of all I've always been the kind of person that like tell me
[00:14:02] I can't do something and I'm gonna just show you so I mean things like oh we're in high school and someone says
[00:14:07] We're talking about like the Boston marathon and I'm like oh I'm gonna oh you can't do the marathon
[00:14:12] Oh, okay watch this
[00:14:14] Right the Boston marathon
[00:14:16] but you know
[00:14:18] Probably saw a movie because you know when I was growing up there wasn't a lot of information out there about the seal teams and so tell me about it
[00:14:24] Right, I mean even less for an old guy like you
[00:14:28] So there wasn't a lot of information but somehow you know
[00:14:30] Probably saw a movie and it had breathing a book and then you know started to do some research and found well first of all
[00:14:37] outside my immediate family
[00:14:39] Uncle's grandfather all served in the military so grew up with that song strong sense of
[00:14:45] One into serve my country and
[00:14:47] Always had a sense of wanting to protect people who couldn't protect themselves
[00:14:51] So it was drawn to that kind of line of work then began to read about the seal teams and at least from what information
[00:14:58] I had available
[00:14:59] It seemed like hey they were the best so I'm like all right. Well if that's the best them that's what I want to go do
[00:15:02] I know that was you know, yeah, it's infancy as it could be on kid
[00:15:05] But then man and just got out of that like a bulldog bulldog on a pork shop and just I mean
[00:15:11] Tunnel vision went after it and you did you go to college?
[00:15:15] Did you already have that decision in your mind when you went to college? Oh, yeah, you knew you're gonna go to OCS
[00:15:19] You knew all that did you know I did ROTC so the thing is is that I don't know anything
[00:15:25] I mean I didn't know about I didn't know what ROTC was
[00:15:28] I didn't even know what in listing was I had no clue no would no no exposure
[00:15:32] I just knew I wanted to be a seal so you know, but we started looking at going to college and I went down
[00:15:37] And I looked at Vanderbilt University among others John Hopkins or RPI goes an engineering major
[00:15:42] And I knew nothing and also they walk into this almost like job fair
[00:15:46] Kind of style thing like welcome check out the school and there's this guy and uniform
[00:15:49] And these of course got a picture like some navy seal frog man coming out of the water over the beach
[00:15:53] And I was like hey, what's this realistic picture of all time right because that's what we do every day
[00:15:58] Right and I hate what's this he goes oh this is ROTC and what would say so what you
[00:16:01] Go to college we pay for college and then you go the navy and like wait you can be a seal through this program
[00:16:07] He's like oh yeah absolutely big lie like they take like 16 guys a year
[00:16:13] Yeah, but oh yeah, you can be a seal. Oh, okay. Let me get this straight so I go to college
[00:16:17] You pay for it watch this I get to go in the navy and I can be a seal. Yeah
[00:16:23] Oh my god, sorry me up so that's how I found out about ROTC
[00:16:25] Recruiter just straight truth from a recruiter you got to love it. That's right. Yeah. Yes. You can be a seal little did I know
[00:16:32] So you get done with
[00:16:35] College get your commission you do ROTC
[00:16:37] Yeah, and then you go to go to Buds show up to Buds
[00:16:40] That was funny. I showed up so I asked the ROTC instructor hey
[00:16:45] You know like what's the process for checking in do I just like what should I wear? I'll just wear you know
[00:16:50] Proprits of the entire so I show up to the Buds quarter deck and like a college shirt
[00:16:58] Walk onto the quarter deck and one of the most
[00:17:01] sadistic instructors possible happen to be standing there. I walk on and my hey
[00:17:06] Yeah, I'm here to check in like
[00:17:09] Like the all-seeing I just like
[00:17:11] Glances like you said what I'll so I'm checking into Buds
[00:17:15] Wearing that I'm like maybe I should go put in for money. Yeah, good idea
[00:17:22] Run out to my car three minutes of your uniform son right went on put on my STBs
[00:17:29] Came back promptly got wet and sanding. Yeah, that's how it works. Yeah STBs
[00:17:33] Because you don't know it's like the the high level uniform with all the ribbons and all that crap on it
[00:17:39] And you got to you know you got to take a care of it so when you take that and you wear it down to the ocean and then you
[00:17:44] Jump in the ocean and roll around in the sand. It's not a good deal. So that's a good news
[00:17:48] There weren't a lot of ribbons on there yet. Yeah, yeah one ribbons
[00:17:52] So so and you end up going through Buds with life, right which people know who life is obviously
[00:17:58] Which is cool and then you get done with buds any I mean buds is buds
[00:18:03] I don't know the care about buds. Yeah, that's some funny late stories though
[00:18:07] Talk about my bro. So I got I got pneumonia in hell week first time through so I got rollback
[00:18:12] Start over so and then and then life
[00:18:16] Transfer then so life was our was our class leader and so me the Delta-Platin commander who one day you'll hear from
[00:18:25] And he and I we all went through Buds together, but they were both lateral transfers and so they were senior to me and rank
[00:18:30] Right, they're already like JJ and a full lieutenant and
[00:18:34] So there's games and buds right like you're trying to win so you know we were we were wise to the games already to try and win in
[00:18:40] Lave if you know by brother is like life is black in white with my brother way
[00:18:47] Okay, so I'm gonna hear about this one, but he so you know it's right and it's wrong and there's like and so we know we're like
[00:18:53] You know and buds sort of like if you ain't cheating you ain't trying and if you got you ain't trying hard enough
[00:18:57] I mean so and there's an element of that and buds obviously not completely, but so you know
[00:19:02] We're we're pulling all kinds of games and his book who is losing because we are just we're cheating to win and
[00:19:08] And
[00:19:09] He's getting so pissed like after the race like after class. He's like okay, you got and then he finally wasn't up and started playing
[00:19:15] Yeah, that thing about you ain't cheating you ain't trying that sort of a that's sort of one side of buds right and what was cool is when I went through Buds
[00:19:23] They actually told us like these couple instructors were like listen
[00:19:27] That's a little saying it's not true right and they they actually said if you're cheating
[00:19:32] You're cheating yourself right which I was and then obviously then they start saying look if you got guys that are cheating here
[00:19:38] To get through this training. Yeah, you really want them in the teams with you. No, right?
[00:19:42] I don't want a guy that that has to cheat to complete a run or swim negative. Yeah, I mean that there's there was
[00:19:47] It's been like cheating like cutting off the run versus like you're in competition
[00:19:50] You're knocking the other guy whatever you know competing hitting a guy in the face of the paddle just that type of thing
[00:19:55] Right
[00:19:57] So you get done so you get done because you were junior when you get to the T you went right to team three
[00:20:01] Right, yeah, so you get to team three, but you don't get to go on to point with team three
[00:20:05] They hook you up with being a boat unit commander. Yeah, so no one's gonna know what that is all right
[00:20:12] So so the deal wasn't and
[00:20:14] This is changed throughout the years, but like when I checked into team three
[00:20:19] There was this brief period of time where was in charge of the time decided that
[00:20:22] Third dose and a opportunity was a bad idea for off-sort of element. This is no more third dose
[00:20:27] so
[00:20:29] Basically I was faced with being a
[00:20:33] Talk jockey or
[00:20:35] Going over to the boat team and at least being a judge or something to get some leadership experience
[00:20:39] So I went over to the special boat team which is part of the Naval Special Warfare and
[00:20:43] Ultimately when they deploy the deploy as part of the task unit and are the task group and it's all integrated in part of
[00:20:51] You know visit board searches see-jure maritime operations such as
[00:20:55] Leadership interdiction maritime interdiction operations and so the boat unit which is
[00:20:59] Special boat teams is
[00:21:02] Run essentially at the at the leadership level by seals so the commanding officer the boat unit the executive officer is our
[00:21:09] Seals the boat that OIC is the Mark Files all of it. I'll have Mark Fives anymore
[00:21:13] Our seal officers so look as a brand new officer at least had an opportunity to deploy in a
[00:21:19] In a combat zone to lead men and end to work with my seal brothers who were conducting operations in the northern region go
[00:21:24] Yeah, and just an overview. I was gonna sum this up as quickly as I can
[00:21:28] So obviously seals work on water a lot and we we drive our own little bullets our own little you know 12 foot Zodiac boats with 55
[00:21:37] Horse power motors on them or 35 horse power motors on them or whatever
[00:21:40] But the bigger boats we don't we don't drive those so anything you know
[00:21:44] You see any of those bigger boats are driven by these guys that are called they're now called
[00:21:50] Special warfare combat and crewmen which are guys that that's what they do their boat drivers
[00:21:55] So they do they insert an extract us no drop there drop there boats out of
[00:22:01] Various aircraft it's so it's a legit job and they and then that's what they do and so you were in charge of a group of those guys
[00:22:08] Took boats on deployment right to the rabbing golf and did what you did over there
[00:22:13] Right the reality is is not the it's not the dream for the seal young seal officer to be that to do that
[00:22:20] But it's a good like you said it's good all of a sudden you're in charge of some real you know, right you're when you're out of the water and I tell people
[00:22:27] I you tell people us when I was in the team to say listen when you're on the water
[00:22:30] It's a real world Bob because because if someone goes wrong when you're in the water
[00:22:34] I'm got first of all you can drown you could that's and you can get lost
[00:22:37] There's all kinds of bad things that happen so if you don't plan right on the water doesn't matter
[00:22:40] If there's enemy or not you got a big giant enemy
[00:22:43] It's called the ocean and they will kill you if you're not square it away and I think actually
[00:22:48] That's one of the things that makes seals good is that we work in the water and the water
[00:22:51] So one of the toughest enemies you come up so one forget it's on the tree
[00:22:54] Yeah, so that wraps up that you come home from that deployment. Yep, and now you are still a sealed team three
[00:23:02] Or you go back to seal team three
[00:23:04] I guess technically yeah, and now we form up and you become the Delta Pultune
[00:23:10] Assistant Pultune commander
[00:23:12] Checking it awesome working for the Delta Pultune commander who you you guys were rose are were bros
[00:23:17] Yeah, we've known each other for years went through buds together and life
[00:23:20] So you guys must have been pretty stoked on that it was cool. It's kind of like getting the band back together
[00:23:25] You know, and those and look those two guys had just come off of
[00:23:29] Not the greatest deployments either in terms of a junior officer seal right because they were deployed and they were the Assistant commanders
[00:23:36] And they were getting stuck with not so fun work, you know, so that we were stoked to be all right
[00:23:41] They were so close. Hey now
[00:23:43] We're the OIC
[00:23:44] We're not gonna be the guy stuck back doing the paperwork and we're getting the band back together
[00:23:48] And then we found out you are our task unit commander. It was like oh, because we we all knew we were gonna be in the Pultune together
[00:23:54] And the task unit together. We didn't know who our TU commander was gonna be yet
[00:23:57] And then we were all those room or room or who are we gonna get and then we heard this guy jacco was coming over
[00:24:01] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[00:24:04] I only knew who you were through them like one other guys like this. Oh, jacco
[00:24:09] That asked do this is gonna be awesome right because like we already had an inkling that like if if this dude was gonna be
[00:24:14] To you commander, we had our best shot again didn't combat
[00:24:17] Although we had no idea what was about to happen good assessment. Yeah
[00:24:22] Yeah, your reputation was great, but you were coming over in that case for being the
[00:24:27] Admiralments coming from being the Admiralments. Yeah, yeah 13 months with with the Admiralment which was a
[00:24:33] A rough tour in terms of
[00:24:36] Things that normal seals same thing right like to do that's right and I and and
[00:24:41] You know for instance, I mean just just straight up wearing uniform every single day
[00:24:46] Wait, so people don't so people understand in the world
[00:24:50] When and I don't know what it's like this moment today when I was in the team so now is it
[00:24:54] Seal team one seal team two seal team seven we I didn't wear shirt
[00:24:59] Like no, I'm a 35 year old man making money doing with a family
[00:25:03] I'm not wearing a shirt at work like oh, I'm in my office cool. I'm not wearing a shirt
[00:25:06] I wear shorts and a pair of jungle boots, right that's it
[00:25:08] So I do that for my whole life right since I was a kid since I was a 19 year old kid
[00:25:14] When I got through but so I now I go to be the Admirals aid and I have to wear uniform every day
[00:25:20] Not just one uniform. I have to wear cackies then whites then blues and you're just in this constant uniform and and seals are not good about
[00:25:29] Uniforms they're just not it's not one of our strong points and
[00:25:33] So so that's one of the things that made the job
[00:25:36] Not very fun, but there's a good lesson there, right? So here
[00:25:39] I mean everybody knows you as an incredible leader
[00:25:43] Awesome seal and yet for this period of time you had to do this job that was not particularly fun
[00:25:49] Kind of like you know, I had to go over and be the the seal at the boat unit, right?
[00:25:52] But do life is full of things like that and when you were part of the team no matter what you do it to the best of your ability
[00:25:58] And you didn't awesome job as the Admirals aid
[00:26:01] Not necessarily what you wanted to do being a tried and wearing frog
[00:26:04] So I got an email from
[00:26:07] One of the assistant platoon commanders in Charlie Patoon a year ago and he said hey bro
[00:26:16] I'm gonna go be the aid yeah
[00:26:19] And so he I just saw him and he was laughing he goes your email back to me you said
[00:26:25] This is going to be very hard for you because you're not good at this kind of thing and I was pretty good at it
[00:26:30] So you're gonna have to work like extra hard to make this happen and he was laughing we're both laughing
[00:26:34] Yeah, because you know what I'm talking about it. He's not a guy that is all over the the my new ship
[00:26:40] Of course he did a great job because he stepped up his game
[00:26:43] But yeah when you get a task with something you do it and you do it the best your ability and and you know
[00:26:48] Just to continue that story because I have to say this it was it was a pain the ass job
[00:26:52] It wasn't fun for me, but man did I learn a lot did I understand a lot did I get to know
[00:26:59] All the inner workings of of the community because I was there with the guy you know with the amylets and charge of all the seals
[00:27:05] I was with him
[00:27:07] For 13 months. I mean all day travel. You know wake up PT. We were just I'm every meeting, you know
[00:27:14] So it was it was a great learning experience for me and I was appreciative and he was a great guy
[00:27:20] He's a great guy now and he really cared about the seal platoon
[00:27:24] Which is which is awesome when a guy puts the no more priority. He'd always talk about okay
[00:27:29] What's the seal platoon need or how does this affect the seal platoon? Yeah, so
[00:27:34] Then we got it and now you're in your first workup right going through workup
[00:27:38] Getting your game on awesome best time my life
[00:27:43] Awesome yeah anybody's in the military right now in act of duty
[00:27:47] Teamed if you're listening to this band just enjoy it man enjoy it. I mean there's other things in life
[00:27:52] Sure, but like you can you just you can't replace that time
[00:27:55] It and there's stupid stuff you deal with yes, but trust me enjoy this man
[00:28:01] You won't find it anywhere else nothing like that awesome
[00:28:06] Yeah, do you what do you I?
[00:28:08] I talk about this sometimes so one of the
[00:28:12] Scars that you get from the militant from the seal teams
[00:28:15] Hmm is if you go if you like to shoot weapons still oh yeah and you want to go shooting you have to pay for ammunition
[00:28:25] I'm serious I remember times in the seal teams where I mean your your thumbs are getting your thumbs are literally
[00:28:33] Getting sore from reloading magazines for days and days you're shooting all the all the bullets you could possibly
[00:28:39] Ever ever want to shoot ever you're gonna shoot them all in a week or two weeks
[00:28:44] And so it's it's so fun. Yeah, it's so fun
[00:28:49] And you know for us and for those of you don't know see you go through a work up prior going on deployment
[00:28:53] Which is now you're working together for the first time this is when I'm getting to know you guys
[00:28:57] You guys are getting to know me we're all getting to know each other where the whole the whole unit is coming together as a team
[00:29:02] And this is where the real bond forms and you're doing super hard training
[00:29:08] You're you're living together you're working out together you're working together
[00:29:13] You're partying together you're eating your meals together. It's just a 24-7 rock and roll
[00:29:17] Awesome this and and that's how that's how it that's how you get to know these guys that's how you get to know your
[00:29:25] Your your team. Yep, so me Mikey and another guy were the we're the new guys in that
[00:29:31] Platoon one other guy. He saw an act of duty. Yeah, yeah
[00:29:36] I'm just saying there was only three new guys in that platoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and our and and and and and Delta and Delta. Yeah
[00:29:45] Needless to say Delta and Charlie were of slightly different dynamic
[00:29:49] Yeah, you guys were you guys are a different dynamic
[00:29:53] Different just like people have different personalities full tunes have different personalities and teams have different personalities and they can more from change
[00:30:00] but
[00:30:01] Nonetheless
[00:30:03] Both great
[00:30:03] Pltunes both yeah, oh yeah, and so it was only you and Mikey in one of the guys. Yeah, I know who the other guy was. Yeah
[00:30:12] The tick you guys were only only three new guys. Yeah, yep, so it's can be a harsh
[00:30:18] It's it's it's a harsh environment to come into when you're when you're a new guy
[00:30:24] I see up to but I saw him with so I'm with Mikey and we're doing we're just I don't even think we're doing mobility
[00:30:29] but we are driving out to the ranges and
[00:30:32] He's the uh he's the turk on right and
[00:30:38] I say something to him like hey when we're approaching a road, you know
[00:30:42] You look at your field of fire and if there's no vehicles coming you know say clear right
[00:30:48] And so he did it once and he's clear right you know kind of quiet now's like hey man
[00:30:54] You got to sound off the drivers try to drive he's got it. He's got radio on he's he needs to know what's going on man
[00:30:58] You need to sound off yeah and the next in her second got to he's a
[00:31:04] Right he said it super loud and I thought to myself wait a second is he is he
[00:31:09] You know taking a piss out of me is he is he being sarcastic with that yell right no and no
[00:31:15] He was not no I told me yell he was like okay we right I will yell I will yell and that's that's the way it worked
[00:31:21] Did the other one of my other favorite stories about Mikey was and his another like new guy related story was
[00:31:29] So you go through
[00:31:32] CQC training close quarter combat close quarter battle
[00:31:35] Whatever it's basically shooting in small
[00:31:38] Spaces taking down buildings that kind of thing and it's it's a
[00:31:43] There's there's a lot of
[00:31:45] Instructor focus oh yeah on the mechanics of what you're doing so it's a very it's a very mechanical thing and if you if you're making mistakes
[00:31:53] It's not gonna work out good for you and by the way as a new guy
[00:31:56] There's tough scrutiny but the reality is it doesn't matter if you're new or not like they're watching
[00:32:00] We have everybody's getting watched you could be a third-platoon guy and get
[00:32:04] Can from the platoon first-a-fifth evaluation and you get a safety evaluation in two seconds. He's not there in you know half a second
[00:32:08] Yeah, it doesn't take much so and and what they're trying to do is they're trying to put more stress on you right
[00:32:13] Because they want them they want you to handle the stress so they stress people out by just
[00:32:19] You know these little minute details of what you do right around and they'll be honest with you
[00:32:25] Some of them no matter some of you're like okay, that doesn't matter you and and I know they don't matter because they they more
[00:32:31] Over time and they'll teach you know
[00:32:33] ones
[00:32:34] Phase they'll be teaching one thing and then if later they'll teach the phase they'll teach another thing then later they'll teach another thing
[00:32:39] So it's not
[00:32:41] There's a million different ways to do yeah and
[00:32:44] You could argue this one's better, but there's a million different ways to do it
[00:32:48] But they do they pick whatever they're gonna choose for that block of training is what you're gonna do and
[00:32:54] And if you want to sit there and argue with them
[00:32:56] Oh boy there's not gonna work out good for you
[00:32:58] So what I told all the new guys and Delta and Charlie Ptune I said well, hey listen
[00:33:02] When the instructor cadre is telling you to do something or they're yelling at you or they're getting on your ass about something you just look at him and say Roger that
[00:33:09] Oh
[00:33:11] You guys got it Roger that and these guys are like Roger that and that's the one that it's you want to have right?
[00:33:16] Because what do you want what do you want to be a new guy?
[00:33:17] That's like hey, no, I don't agree with your tactics there person. That's deployed you know overseas 14 times no you don't want to be that guy
[00:33:25] You might think you're right, but no, this is what you know, that's not what you want to do
[00:33:28] So I told you guys to say Roger that so we're going through the training the training great and we're
[00:33:33] Doing really well our task units doing great. You know, but still guys are guys are making mistakes
[00:33:38] Whatever and finally the master chief and I'm of course for like Tony and I were friends with all the cadre guys because they're all our bros from being in teams and
[00:33:47] One of the the leader guy
[00:33:49] He comes up to me and he's like hey
[00:33:52] He's hard, but yes guys
[00:33:54] He goes hey
[00:33:56] What's up with this guy monster and I was like I don't what what do you mean? What's up? He's been doing a good job. What's up? He goes every time I tell him something
[00:34:02] All he does just look at me and say Roger that
[00:34:04] Yeah, I go hey brother, you know what he's doing exactly what I told you
[00:34:10] I literally told them the only thing I wanted him to say to you guys or want anything you guys to say to you guys
[00:34:15] Was Roger that and make an app so when we were out there there was
[00:34:19] Another platoon that was there at the same time. Do you remember this they were in and I
[00:34:25] I'm pretty sure the chief got canned from a platoon. Yeah, he saved you violation and there was some and there was that talking back going on right like hey
[00:34:33] I've got three deployments under my belt and you know, there's a degree of humility in that Roger that response right
[00:34:38] That's what it's like it's it's Roger that. I'm open to the correction you have for me
[00:34:43] Yeah, for sure and so and these guys
[00:34:45] You know him's on the platoon and there's a balance there. I mean he's leading us platoon and taking a stand for you know
[00:34:50] And being in charge put the same time like there's a humility and a respect in that response and he was not doing that
[00:34:56] And I'm telling you like he
[00:34:57] Screwed some things up and they saved you review board. I remember about holding a safety review board for the chief of that platoon
[00:35:04] Yeah, not our task unit, but it did they do not play around no and and that's the way it's supposed to be right because it's intense
[00:35:11] And what people don't get is that you're trying to recreate the intensity of combat as best you can
[00:35:15] So they're creating high stress situations as stressful as possible and like you said sometimes creating
[00:35:21] Elements that aren't necessarily real, but just to overload you with a number of things you have to process under pressure
[00:35:28] And then are you gonna make good decisions under pressure and that right there is what
[00:35:33] Translates to combat good decisions under stress and under pressure. Yeah, yeah, and
[00:35:40] You're right though about that humility piece and
[00:35:43] That was all attitude going through right you know what I mean between me Tony
[00:35:48] I don't think there was I'm just trying to think if there's any instructor cadre that was putting us through
[00:35:54] Right, you know, I get there was some guys that were it's you know
[00:35:56] And the stupid was it wasn't like there was someone that was just you know had tons more experience than the two of us
[00:36:01] Right and
[00:36:03] Yeah, we you know both Tony and I hit Roger that yeah, hey sounds good will will make that adjustment because
[00:36:08] You know what and it's great just having Tony on the other day. He was just saying look
[00:36:13] You can I'm learning something new all the time learning something from the new guys, and that's the attitude that prevailed through the task
[00:36:19] You know not of hey
[00:36:21] Where the best we don't have to listen to anybody, but hey, we're gonna work as hard as we can
[00:36:27] We're gonna be the best we can, but we're we got open minds that we're ready to learn at all times
[00:36:31] It's a fine line between confident and cocky no doubt about and and being humble
[00:36:36] You can be confident you can be sure and you can be humble and respectful and open to learning new things and maybe based a present which you learn
[00:36:42] Yeah, there's no doubt about that so
[00:36:45] What else do you remember from
[00:36:48] Work up in terms of hey you're a new guy you're checking in you know Tony and I told some stories of what it was like when we were checking in team one
[00:36:54] It was when we were new guys it was a very
[00:36:58] Ruff environment to roll right into yeah, what did you think when you got to you know being a new guy? Well
[00:37:05] I remember like literally day first of all day one that I was checking into the platoon space
[00:37:11] I got like the combo to the platoon space right now went in and I'm man brand new and
[00:37:16] So I'm gonna be protective of my platoon you know, so I go in I'm walking out of the platoon space
[00:37:20] Making sure the door is locked behind me because you know other platoon guys go in and just destroy another guy's platoon space
[00:37:26] forever and I'm walking down the hallway and our LPO
[00:37:31] Who is goes down to the door and he doesn't have the combo right you go see goes hey, hey, what's the combo to the space?
[00:37:37] I'm like
[00:37:38] I gave him some wise ask you do you not know him? No, it didn't know him yet, right? How that worked out?
[00:37:44] It was hilarious like he he goes hey, what's the combo to the space?
[00:37:47] I'm like hey, man, I can't give that to you and I didn't know he was the LPO
[00:37:52] He's he's he's he's he's he's on the goddamn LPO. What's the fucking combo to the platoon space like
[00:37:57] Roger that he's pretty well three one together been two you know and I proceeded to walk down the steps
[00:38:02] I'm like oh
[00:38:03] God almighty. Why?
[00:38:05] And the team just I just met the LPO and it was not on good terms
[00:38:10] Man, that's all and then he and I turned out to be good friends, but
[00:38:14] I remember we're out doing land warfare training and this is like where you know you're cutting the metal like you said
[00:38:19] You're getting to know each other and you know the guys in the platoon
[00:38:22] Also trying to figure out what these new guys like all right, what have I what have we got here?
[00:38:25] What can we rely on you know and
[00:38:28] so
[00:38:29] One night ever remember us doing a little bit of boxing and it was
[00:38:33] forced boxing new guy on new guy
[00:38:37] You know and
[00:38:39] Survival of the fittest oh man. Yeah, dude. And then and then at times it was just
[00:38:45] three on you know
[00:38:47] Every man for himself and it's just like your heads on a swivel and it's Mikey the tick and me and we're just
[00:38:53] Wailing away and it's just going and it's hey
[00:38:57] Who's gonna continue to fight basically right and you'd oh everything you know I'm an officer in these two guys
[00:39:02] Or just you know obviously well in a way, but I'm like hey man
[00:39:05] I'm gonna just fight to the bitter end and it was it was pretty awesome. Hey did you do your jits who before you got
[00:39:11] I do had just enough
[00:39:13] I didn't to make it that you could hold your own. I would when I would do the officer cumin this. Yes
[00:39:20] I did do some and you know to keep in mind like
[00:39:23] Did you train on the East Coast when I was in high school and I got in I got into greasy jutsu like literally like I was already training
[00:39:31] When the first UFC ever me him out right and so it was pretty cool and then that was always a big shocker for people
[00:39:40] Because you were you were by far smaller than the other
[00:39:44] Platoon officers and yet you had that you jits who had the jutsu and when you have the jutsu
[00:39:49] You didn't have a lot either. What were you even up to the belt? I don't even know
[00:39:52] Yeah, you were probably like a high level white belt
[00:39:55] But but to be fair like at the time it was all very new like the world of MMA today is oh
[00:40:01] Yeah, totally different totally different as you know, but at the time like I mean
[00:40:05] I even went to in high school with my with my instructor who is it who's a teacher at my school
[00:40:10] He was into it. So he and I would train like five in the morning before school
[00:40:13] Me versus him much larger man, but we learned it just and then we went and did seminars with hoist gracing
[00:40:20] In upstate New York we would drive and it was cool. I got to get out of school. I'm going right again
[00:40:25] This is just proof
[00:40:27] That you jutsu so good because he would I would make these these officers like we meet at five o'clock in the morning
[00:40:32] And I say okay, and I would train with everybody, but then I say okay now you to you to fight to the death
[00:40:38] And then we just get after but he but he was he was 150 pounds
[00:40:42] He's going against guys that are 200 pounds. You know they have him by 50 pounds and taller
[00:40:47] And taller and and you would just you know there's
[00:40:50] You know it just doesn't work. You know you got to know that you did too
[00:40:53] Yeah, and I'm not gonna say that I wait in these are tough guys. No, no, no, that's right. That's right
[00:40:59] Like they weren't tapping me out. You know, didn't you usually tap them?
[00:41:02] I used to choke down a certain guy who didn't like that very much
[00:41:07] It's all right
[00:41:09] Yeah, but you know and the thing at that time because they're bigger than me was more about energy conservation
[00:41:15] Right and so like I mean I just let him wear themselves out and then they try and get things on me
[00:41:19] And then I just snake my way around there. But he
[00:41:21] Also remember you've all been tearing for the taste
[00:41:24] Oh
[00:41:26] So you actually had an attitude like you had you look like I can hit my handle this like no factor
[00:41:32] What you want to taste me bring it that's right. You know you don't see the guys on cops
[00:41:37] When there's a big tough crazy guy all on PCP and he gets tasty rips the taste around and throws the thing and he just keeps coming
[00:41:44] That's what Andrew Paul had that look
[00:41:46] Like I'm gonna
[00:41:48] Just go you gonna taste me bring it. Let's go. I mean hey. I'm a new guy in the pool to and right
[00:41:53] I mean I got to earn my spot right and so some somewhere somebody had actually was the LPO
[00:41:59] He had he had one of these things. Yeah, and I was like oh and I'm gonna tell you what like it had these like two modes
[00:42:04] And one where you could shoot or you could like put it right up to the guy
[00:42:07] You know and I was like hey, let's go shoot him. He's like we got my like come on. Let's go and then like the whole pool tune
[00:42:13] Like everybody like met down in the back cave and
[00:42:15] There may be a video floating around somewhere
[00:42:19] This one had the winter barbs that those against no-to-teaser as I like the bar like the winter bars
[00:42:24] Our longer to get through this weather
[00:42:27] Who that down coat yeah, and so when of course he was like what were you in a t-shirt or just no shirt?
[00:42:34] I was in a t-shirt. Yeah, and I was like oh, how those winter barbs work out for you?
[00:42:39] So it's like there's like all they're getting ready to do it. Oh wait wait, and you know these are my guys looking out for me
[00:42:45] I appreciate it guys. They're like oh, we're here. Here put this eye pro one. Oh, that's a good idea
[00:42:50] Right, so put some eye pro on and then like like it's got a laser on it, right?
[00:42:54] So the laser him and you if you see the video like like you hear guys going like guys are witnessing like nobody's been
[00:43:00] T-he's like nobody else was gonna happen right now, right boom
[00:43:02] So this thing comes out at like 45 degree angle in one like goes into my sternum and the other one
[00:43:08] Goes below my belly button. All right, so my instantly over all that all that thinking he was just gonna just rip those things out
[00:43:19] He went ridge and thank God we put a mat down. Yes, there was a man because he went ridge straight and fell like a brick
[00:43:27] Yeah, boom
[00:43:28] Nothing and then just so it so clearly and I remember this too like it hits you and like it hits you in that in that spot
[00:43:35] And like your hands go to grab like you've been stung you've been hit so your hands my hands get like three quarters of the way there
[00:43:40] By the time the electricity freezes the body
[00:43:43] So my hands are kind of like stuck in front of my chest in my admin as it attempted to grab this spot
[00:43:48] So I go over and
[00:43:50] All right, they turn the thing off and then they go to get these things out somebody's got a pair of pliers and in the barbed
[00:43:55] I remember that you know it's good when you need pliers that much to dislodge the show like it went into the muscle like because like I remember
[00:44:04] ripping and coming free but not free and it was but it was still beneath the skin and
[00:44:11] And then it just like just rip it
[00:44:13] This is the team's bad. This is what makes the team so far. Yeah, one day you show up at work
[00:44:18] You're just volunteer to get taste and you're gonna get some the best thing you can do is just volunteer in a situation like that
[00:44:25] Yeah, you know and just like I come on. Let's go. Yeah, brilliant and then they got oh, okay, right on, you know
[00:44:30] Yeah, well, you did the right thing. I'm sorry. I didn't work out through work. I think work down great
[00:44:37] All right, so we get word
[00:44:41] We get done with our work up and now it's time to go on deployment and
[00:44:45] Get on deployment and we found out
[00:44:49] What two weeks before you guys were on leave when we found out we were going to Ramadi instead of where we originally supposed to go
[00:44:55] Which was and I rack but we knew I mean I knew Ramadi was gonna be the
[00:44:58] The the best place to deploy to and
[00:45:03] We show up over there and what was cool. I thought about
[00:45:07] With with that deployment is the way we task organized and every basically every leader got their own element
[00:45:15] Yeah, yeah, and put you guys it was like, oh, yeah, you know how you've been working for this and we've been all but no
[00:45:20] You're going out on your own your your in charge. Yeah, and that was that was awesome and that
[00:45:24] What made me feel good was that when we were in the work up and we made you guys run operations even though
[00:45:30] You were new guys and made you put you in pressure situations and put you in charge of ground force commander while you were
[00:45:36] You know most troops didn't do that right but I knew that there was a possibility and furthermore
[00:45:42] What happens if you know your platoon commander gets killed what happens if I get killed and then you're the guy
[00:45:47] Yeah, then you got to be able to step up and run stuff and so we did that through the chain of command and and we did
[00:45:52] I will admit to this we made sure that we had crushed the work up
[00:45:58] And then it was like okay, we've dominated okay now we start training the new guys up on how to lead and that was
[00:46:02] Yeah, that was important too because it's you want to do well in the workup
[00:46:07] You want you because that's where your reputation as a task when it comes from is how well you do going through these various training
[00:46:12] Well, that's why we earned earned the spot to be able to go to Iraq right because the thing is is that some guys are going elsewhere
[00:46:17] And you're all vying look I mean you're all vying because you want to go to combat and some guys are going someplace else not in Iraq and
[00:46:26] You know, I hate to say it, but that's not where any of us really wanted to go
[00:46:29] Oh nothing to say about that if you're in the seal teams you want to go to war
[00:46:32] That's right we all wanted to go to war. That's what we were fighting for we were competing
[00:46:37] There's three task units we were competing as a task unit to get top spot to the most dangerous place
[00:46:42] And that's what we want to go and that's right out to be a body now by the way
[00:46:45] On that workout to just from a leadership perspective. I don't know if you remember you know not everybody made it through the workout
[00:46:51] There were guys who were cut loose
[00:46:54] Safety issues not stepping up not leading right pushing that leadership opportunity down to the junior officer whatever and not stepping up
[00:47:00] We're doing something unsafe or just not having what it took and
[00:47:04] You know and
[00:47:06] You know just from a leadership perspective you have to be
[00:47:08] willing to make that hard decision and
[00:47:11] Reality and I know you know you only have talked about it when you've given everybody that guy every opportunity when you've evaluated it
[00:47:17] And you've kept notes and you've tried to train and you've tried to correct
[00:47:20] It's not a hard decision right
[00:47:23] Yeah, actually the common or I don't know if you were there but the common or asked me we were on deployment
[00:47:28] And he goes you know hey, hey, chocolate. This is in front of everyone. He says you know
[00:47:32] Well, I shouldn't say everyone's in front of a leadership
[00:47:34] He says hey how are the guys that weren't in work up maybe weren't performing up to par how are they doing over here?
[00:47:39] And I was like sir, they're not in this task. They're not here. That's right. Yeah, they did make it. Yeah, right? They've been removed. That's right
[00:47:46] So yeah, that's a great point and again
[00:47:49] It's hard thing to do because you because you really
[00:47:53] You're really wrecking someone's life. Well think about it, right? So this is a guy who is who so there's a guy who's an officer
[00:47:59] Right, so I mean we didn't really kind of glaze through it
[00:48:02] But it's hard to get a spot to go to buddha's an officer. Yeah, it's very competitive
[00:48:05] So this is a guy who's an officer who got a spot to go to buddha's made it through buds which is hard
[00:48:13] Made it through SKT got to a pulltune this this guy is not a slouch physically. You know what I mean like this is not this is not
[00:48:20] some loser, you know, this is a guy who made great American right patriotic. That's right. That's right. That's right. Great guy
[00:48:28] Who stepped up who made it through something that many many other men could not make it through and
[00:48:33] And had to make a hard decision
[00:48:36] You know on your part with the Delta Patoon commander to not have this guy continue with us and so if that can happen even within the seal teams
[00:48:45] So it goes because they were listening right? I mean
[00:48:47] Don't you think that's also possible that within your organization you might have to make a similar kind of decision
[00:48:53] We also have to make that decision in the seal teams. We're not exempt from making that decision
[00:48:58] Yeah, and also very much like the civilian sector
[00:49:00] You know
[00:49:03] There's HR basically in the military there's HR. There's there's human resource department
[00:49:07] You can't just walk into animal like this guy on the fire. That's right. No, okay. Well
[00:49:11] What have you counseled them has you paper work on him?
[00:49:13] That does he know that? Dave you verbally have you written it? It's all these things. That's right
[00:49:17] He went through that whole procedure. Yeah, and you know if there's an extreme case of course
[00:49:21] You can you can make it happen, but it's gonna cost you a little bit of political capital because honestly if I'm your boss
[00:49:26] And you come to me and say hey, I want to fire this guy and I say okay. Why?
[00:49:29] Well, I don't I don't you know he's not doing his job anymore and I say okay did you counsel? No, not yet, but I want to fire him anyways
[00:49:35] That's gonna cost you some political capital. Yeah, I'm actually looking you're going away second
[00:49:39] Why didn't you train this guy? Yeah, you as a leader. Why didn't you step up and train this guy? What what are you doing?
[00:49:42] Because it cuz that can be a cop out right hey if I'm too lazy to train mentor
[00:49:47] Then you're copying you out as leader, but if you've done all those things as a leader and you can really document that and see that and they guys
[00:49:52] Still not performing then the next leadership decision is toned-up
[00:49:56] Partway and that really is I mean that really is one of the the best things about the seal teams is is when you're raising your guys up
[00:50:02] When you're when you're teaching guys what you know and you're saying hey, man, this what you need to do hey
[00:50:08] Bro, here's what here's the way this works here's what you did over here. Here's what you should do
[00:50:11] You know that's just that's your that's your legacy
[00:50:14] That's what you leave behind is is hey this is what I learned and I want to teach you to as many guys as I can
[00:50:19] That's what you're trying to do so if you're alive you're not doing that
[00:50:22] That's jacked up, you know, that's jacked up and it's the same thing in the civilian sector. You know here's a good one
[00:50:30] I was working on we work with companies and I was working on the company the other day and they got a guy who sort of
[00:50:37] You know, oh well well
[00:50:39] Maybe he's not the best mentor right but he wants to get promoted of course because everyone wants to
[00:50:46] So this guy wants to get promoted and they're trying to they haven't had luck saying look you got to be a mentor
[00:50:51] You got to lead you got to be a better leader. You got to braze people up and I just you know talk talk to the boss
[00:50:58] And I said well ask him this question. Yeah, you know what I definitely am looking forward to promoting you
[00:51:03] Give me the three names of people that you've prepared to take your position right
[00:51:07] Goose eggs right. It's gonna be goose eggs cuz yeah, isn't done that that's right so that's a key component
[00:51:13] You know you definitely want to
[00:51:15] You want to be as a leader you should be looking for your replacement all the time and I with with with with lathe
[00:51:21] With a delta to a commander. I want to those guys build do my job and that's my whole goal and I wanted you to be able to do my job right
[00:51:26] And I'll tell you by the time we went on to play me. They everyone pretty much could do my job
[00:51:31] So that that was success for me because guess what that allowed me to do on to play me
[00:51:35] Look at the look up and look out and figure out what we're gonna do next and all that other stuff
[00:51:40] So that should be your goal from a leadership perspective for sure and
[00:51:44] As you just pointed out when you get to a situation where you've done the coaching you've done the mentoring
[00:51:48] You've done the counseling you've written you've set the expectation you have a person that's still isn't caught in the monster
[00:51:53] You gotta go not a hard decision and you have to be loyal
[00:51:57] People get mixed up too because there's a loyalty component
[00:51:59] Hey, cuz you formed those relationships. We just talked about an hour about this big relationship with all these people
[00:52:03] Well guess what you ever relationship with that person that you're about to fire too
[00:52:07] But then the question becomes
[00:52:09] Are you gonna be loyal to that individual you may loyal to the team because you're hurting the side
[00:52:13] Yeah, that's exactly right. It's the team. Yep
[00:52:15] So that's that we went on to plan with a strong bunch of
[00:52:19] Pipeters all right
[00:52:22] So we get on to plan and we you you guys we kind of and this is again this is something Tony and I talk about we were
[00:52:29] Task organized and we changed that we changed it on a fairly regular base. Okay. We know what we this area is getting hot
[00:52:34] Need more guys over there and we would just kind of there's a lot to do there's a lot to do there's a lot of work to be done
[00:52:39] There was a lot a lot of bad guys
[00:52:41] Um
[00:52:43] When you when you look back and you're kind of so now you're on your first combat deployment what was the thing that struck you as?
[00:52:52] Damn like okay, this is what cuz I'll tell you people asked me that and I'm like the first firefight
[00:52:57] I got in while my first deployment to Iraq and honestly I was like okay
[00:53:01] I felt like I was 100% prepared. I agree completely and I was like okay cool. Hey guys
[00:53:07] You know, he's just very simple very straightforward. So some guys said to me one time and this is an outside guy and
[00:53:13] Said because it kind of seems to me that in the tiltings he guys do
[00:53:16] Stress in evacuation really well and so I would say yes because that's that was exactly my same first firefight
[00:53:23] I got in I was like
[00:53:25] No, but deal and you know look you know when the rounds are close right like you know what that sounds like and
[00:53:30] They're and they're really close and it's no big deal by the way
[00:53:34] It's not really very loud when they're shooting at you right I mean you hear certain sounds
[00:53:38] But then of course he's fire maneuvering. It's a little bit loud, but that's awesome. It's just like every drill we've ever done and it was no big deal
[00:53:44] It was just
[00:53:46] It was almost habit at that point you can you exactly the number so no big deal the first the first time I went out in a humbany
[00:53:54] In Ramadi so keep in mind like you said on the introduction we got there
[00:53:58] Guys were getting IED and killed every single day every day the message traffic came over and it was
[00:54:07] KIA you know
[00:54:09] IED
[00:54:10] So
[00:54:11] first home the
[00:54:12] Rada go out in and I'm looking out the window and by the way like you can't really roll these windows down
[00:54:18] It's not like you can you don't want to roll these windows down by the way
[00:54:21] All the proof windows right you want to keep them up right and you know
[00:54:24] So like you actually can't shoot back if you want to right the only guy who can shoot back is your turret gunner and
[00:54:32] For the first like I would just say minute and a half I was like
[00:54:36] Wencing I was like waiting for this clock to go
[00:54:40] You know and then finally I was like you know what
[00:54:43] There's nothing I can do about it and I literally let it go right then so that was like that's a strong memory like I remember
[00:54:50] Even for all the training and again the first firefight was no big deal and
[00:54:55] But driving down in a home the sitting in the back completely helpless
[00:54:59] I mean you have two choices and life is a lot like this you can sit there and worry yourself away about it
[00:55:04] Whoa is it this intersection is it this intersector or just go you know what here's a deal
[00:55:09] I can't control it so I'm just gonna be ready so it went my time to bust out this door or do whatever
[00:55:12] We got to do it to do the media action drill or whatever
[00:55:14] I'm ready to do it and the rest of it you just let go you let go because anything else is not effective
[00:55:20] Yeah, you're not you're not yet it's not only just are you worried
[00:55:24] But now you're you're actually doing things bad
[00:55:26] You're actually being negative you're thinking about things that you shouldn't be thinking about and it's not helping you
[00:55:31] It's not helping your team so I like that just to just to kind of sum up what you said
[00:55:36] You were in Ramadi for six months. You were scared for about a minute and 30 seconds
[00:55:40] Yeah, and after that I
[00:55:42] And I think that's the attitude that I
[00:55:45] Think that's the best I hate I don't know if this is the right thing to say or not but
[00:55:50] To accept the fact there's things you can't control that you cannot control and
[00:55:55] That one of those things is you know an ID a sniper bullet
[00:55:59] Yeah, I mean, and now there's things that you can do to influence because guess what we do training
[00:56:04] We prepare we're keeping our eyes peeled
[00:56:06] We're taking routes that we know have been cleared to the best of our ability
[00:56:09] We're we're we're on the street we're moving we're moving to cover cover
[00:56:12] We're doing everything that we can but guess what it doesn't matter
[00:56:15] You can do everything right and doesn't matter. You can still get blown up. You can still get shot
[00:56:19] That's the way it is so if you sit around and just think about that all the time
[00:56:24] It's just gonna drive you crazy one and number two is gonna make you do your job worse
[00:56:29] Yeah, because you're gonna be less aggressive and I think
[00:56:33] You gotta stay aggressive to stay alive you you want to be aggressive you want to be you know what yeah
[00:56:37] We'll go to make that happen. Oh
[00:56:39] They're they're I do I want to sit in the vehicle right now or get out and get out and get some ground
[00:56:42] I mean that's just the type of thing that's mindset. It's a mindset that that wins
[00:56:46] That's it. It's the winning mindset and if your goals to win then you have to recognize
[00:56:51] That certain thought processes are not effective and they take away from your ability to win
[00:56:56] And you know I see people get worried about stuff that kind of thing, right? So
[00:57:00] You just you take us to value I want to win right the guy said me one time hey
[00:57:04] Do you think do you think fear is a is a useful
[00:57:09] Emotion I thought about for a second. I've never lots of different people talk about fear and you know this and that and you know
[00:57:15] I would say for
[00:57:17] Maybe I'll change this one day, but right now. This is where I've come to on fear
[00:57:21] Maybe for the caveman who's walking through the jungle and they get attacked by the Sabre two tiger and that fear that
[00:57:28] Fidr flight response is enough to make him react in a moment in order to avoid being slashed by the tiger
[00:57:35] But other than that fear was not effective in battle because you do not make good decisions when acting in fear
[00:57:43] And you have a better chance of survival you make better decisions and you have a better chance of winning and defeating and crushing the enemy when you were main calm
[00:57:50] You do do do do do do do right?
[00:57:52] Observe oriented side act. Yeah, yeah, I get asked to I obviously get asked about fear a lot and you know
[00:57:59] I would say look
[00:58:00] Fear is that there's not a bad thing because it's the thing that makes you go. Okay. I need to be ready
[00:58:05] Right is the thing that makes you worse. It's the thing that makes you say okay because you and for me
[00:58:10] The again the fear wasn't about the fear of get killed getting blown up the fear was always about
[00:58:16] I want to I don't want to do a bad job. I don't want to make a bad decision that I'll tell you your leadership position
[00:58:22] That is the heaviest fear that you have is I make a mistake my team does something that doesn't
[00:58:29] doesn't
[00:58:31] Bring credit upon us as a union by that. I mean doesn't do a good job like you're just I don't even know where that comes from
[00:58:38] It's just want to do a good job and the fear is hey
[00:58:42] I hope I don't do anything that gets my guys hurt or killed. I hope doing anything that's a bad decision that makes that does that hurts
[00:58:47] us strategically as a nation. Yeah, those are the two
[00:58:51] fears that I think make your hurts make you practice make you reinforce make you
[00:58:58] Aware of what's happening, but you can't what you can't do
[00:59:02] I mean for me fear fear is makes me aggressive like oh I think this guy's gonna gonna do something to me cool
[00:59:08] I'm afraid of him call me to attack him. I'm gonna kill him. You know I'm gonna take him out. I'm gonna do something
[00:59:13] You know and I actually see that time and you know I see that name in me too
[00:59:16] Where when you see someone happen to somebody where they get a little bit they get a little bit rocked or something
[00:59:23] If they if they let that fear make them back off and go into a defensive mode it's exactly what you just said
[00:59:29] If it makes you into a defensive mode, it's good you're gonna the person's gonna because man you can smell that that's right
[00:59:34] You can smell that so when I think the reaction to fear is like oh I'm afraid right now
[00:59:39] COVID attack I have to attack yeah like oh I don't feel comfortable about where the
[00:59:43] Troop is moving right now or where my squad is moving right now
[00:59:46] I don't think it's a good thing cool. I'm gonna attack him to take some high ground. I'm gonna maneuver that's
[00:59:50] What's healthy yes, it's healthy fear that that's healthy, but you're also trained and prepared mentally for that kind of thing
[00:59:56] Most people when they start acting in fear they start making poor decisions. Yeah, yeah, so so in that sense
[01:00:01] It's like hey get over your fears because you have to recognize when you're acting in fear
[01:00:05] You'll have a less desirable outcome than if you can get over it calm down sip you know observable or into sidacto
[01:00:10] No doubt about it
[01:00:12] All right, what about what about just plain leadership challenges? I mean here we are just a stressful deployment
[01:00:17] Yep, it was
[01:00:19] It was the most stressful deployment that anybody had had up until that point in Iraq
[01:00:26] And even talking to you know the Vietnam guys this was a stressful deployment
[01:00:30] Yeah, a very stressful deployment in the amount of combat that was happening. Well urban combat happen it's happening so fast
[01:00:40] So but from a leadership perspective what did you was there anything that you didn't expect was there any lesson that got confirmed?
[01:00:48] Yeah, so in its funny because you know over time in the deployment
[01:00:54] You really mature
[01:00:56] Even in a short amount of time and I'll give you a quick quick story so it was one of my last ops before I left country
[01:01:03] And there was another unit that had come into kind of partner up with us and
[01:01:09] We went into this op and so the officer in that you know who's a good friend of mine by the way
[01:01:14] Was it might have been his second combat op, right? And so I've been on I don't even know how many at that point
[01:01:20] And so we went into this operation and it involves some army units and so we're sitting in this position and
[01:01:30] So
[01:01:32] Like classic blunder the army guy who's sitting there is on the rooftop and he's smoking a cigarette
[01:01:40] Like like the classic world war to sniper victim smoke in a cigarette
[01:01:47] Trail smoke going up
[01:01:49] And I mean this is classic I mean single sniper shot
[01:01:54] Shoot them and it it just I mean it misses his face
[01:01:59] Well, I'm gonna put this way it took his ear a little off
[01:02:02] Right around cracks into the wall behind us. That's it immediately everybody just by like just unloads firefight
[01:02:09] Right and
[01:02:11] So we're calling it met it after this guy because it kind of it still cut him pretty good and
[01:02:15] And
[01:02:17] Trying to figure out through the meeting more fire whatever the situation is so so this guy is like well
[01:02:22] on my case so
[01:02:24] Time to call it you are often get out here. It's like well, you know, I think I'm like feet think what dude
[01:02:29] What else do you think is possibly gonna come from this and you know? I mean I probably
[01:02:35] Would have thought hey, maybe we could still get something from this it was my first or second
[01:02:38] Right, but it was just clear like I mean at this point
[01:02:40] I mean we've already we've already got a lot of guys hurt on this deployment
[01:02:44] We've already lost Mark and
[01:02:46] If you have a guy, so you know, they'll just already been shot at this point so
[01:02:52] You have to weigh like what what more are you gonna gain? I mean first of all this guy just this sniper just got a bead on this guy
[01:02:59] I mean in by the grace of God he is still alive and
[01:03:04] We've shot like so
[01:03:06] What else is gonna happen? I mean they're either just gonna set up and get a better position or get another shot
[01:03:10] But they certainly aren't gonna do anything we certainly aren't gonna see anything that they don't want us to see at this point
[01:03:17] So the battlefield is lost. I mean this op is it's over. It's it's time to pull shocks and go
[01:03:22] So anyway that already came and busted down this wall with the fighting go who's awesome?
[01:03:25] I mean I love the fighting Bradley fighting you whole
[01:03:28] But you know that should sort of like a quick it's like obvious it's obvious to me at that point
[01:03:32] And I don't mind anymore in comp you know quarterback 10 years later as I'm explaining this like
[01:03:36] Anyways, we'll see you can go well. Yeah, obviously time to go right, but you know what you're in that position and guys
[01:03:41] They're still trying to get after it and there's still things going on out there
[01:03:44] You might think well, maybe there's still something we can do here
[01:03:47] Yeah, and by the way, but
[01:03:49] There was other times where similar situations happen in different decisions were made and they worked out great. Yep, you know and so
[01:03:57] I think you're overall
[01:03:59] Statement is like you gained perspective right over time and you're able to look at things from a
[01:04:06] From a better perspective and from a higher altitude from a lack of a better way to say
[01:04:11] You'll understand what's happening on the battlefield more. You know that's definitely
[01:04:15] Something that if people are listening and it's something that they want to become aware
[01:04:19] It's it's something that you can actually act on
[01:04:22] because
[01:04:23] that perspective
[01:04:25] It can be gained through time and experience
[01:04:28] But it can also be gained by
[01:04:30] Detachment and saying okay, what am I really doing here right now? Yeah, what are we really going to gain?
[01:04:36] And you can make a faster progress down the line to have to make good judgment calls based on
[01:04:43] Not just experience, but just on knowledge and and trying to capture the right perspective at the right time
[01:04:48] plus a big tactic for those guys
[01:04:50] It was slowly developing and and happened
[01:04:53] after we left
[01:04:55] So is there anything else that you start that that you learned again that you didn't expect or that was useful for you
[01:05:06] From a leadership perspective yeah, so you know I found myself in a position a lot of times of
[01:05:13] Kind of stitching the people keeping it put to and stitch together, you know because in an intense situation
[01:05:18] I start to have different opinions about things, you know
[01:05:21] They do indeed yeah and so
[01:05:24] So
[01:05:26] On this deployment I was not the puttune commander right my good friend was the puttune commander and
[01:05:31] When you're in a position leadership you're making a lot of hard decisions and not everybody always agrees with the decision that gets made
[01:05:38] And so a lot of times the role I needed to fill was to back my puttune commander and continue to keep the puttune together behind puttune commander
[01:05:47] because he he had he was tasked with making some hard decisions
[01:05:49] So
[01:05:52] Sometimes it was you know some you know, so look I would just the analogy I would give to you is that
[01:05:57] You may be in a role in a company in an organization where the best thing you can do to be part of the team is to
[01:06:05] Help keep the team on focus for the mission and that might mean
[01:06:09] You know spend some time with one or two guys who are over here
[01:06:13] Have it disagreeing about the decision or which way things are going and truly one of the best ways that you end up having to do that or doing that
[01:06:22] Is number one you build the relationships with the guys right so they know and trust you number two
[01:06:27] year-potune commander is
[01:06:29] Got a lot of stuff on his plate right and so one of the easiest things for him to
[01:06:37] Cut short is
[01:06:39] The guys of of explaining hey here's why this is going on here's how why this gonna so you as the intermedia
[01:06:44] You're saying okay, I know what he's doing
[01:06:46] I know he's making this isn't let me explain this down the chain of command
[01:06:48] That's right and that's so helpful and so helpful and when you got guys in the puttune or any organization a high performing organization
[01:06:55] That are really strong-willed and have strong opinions and by the way are an intelligent and it can make really
[01:07:01] Articular points as to why they don't agree with something
[01:07:04] You know again my role in that in that situation
[01:07:07] Was to ensure that mission success continued to happen that we were still effective as a unit and that meant me
[01:07:14] Kind of behind the scenes trying to keep keep some guys on board. Yeah, and it's interesting. I'm sure people have noted this already but
[01:07:23] When you said there's these different people inside of a puttune
[01:07:26] I mean just if you listen to the podcast that I just were did with retired senior chief Tony of fratty and you
[01:07:33] You guys personalities are are very very different very very different and that's just some of what you get in a suit
[01:07:39] To and you know what it's not just some what getting a suit to it's some of what you get in any
[01:07:45] Organization that's right there's no clones. There's not people being turned out
[01:07:49] They can have the same background they can go to the same school
[01:07:52] They can have the same level experience they can be totally different people
[01:07:55] That's the way it is and that's the way it isn't the seal teams and that's the way it is in every organization
[01:07:58] Part of why we're so good right because you get guys that think differently. You have problems differently
[01:08:01] Yes, but I like the fact of what you're saying is you had to be you found yourself in the role of
[01:08:09] Okay, you know what I'm going to make sure that the guys understand where the puttune commanders coming from
[01:08:13] Would the got that if there's something that actually makes sense?
[01:08:16] I'm going to bring it back to puttune commander and say look this isn't one of the guys
[01:08:18] You know complaining about something here's the legitimate point that's being made right
[01:08:23] And then you guys can have that the such discussion maybe brings in one of those guys
[01:08:26] And we'll tell me what you're talking about here and then you guys can move forward and come up with a best possible plan
[01:08:32] But yeah as a peacemaker for all practical purposes is is what's is where you what you end up being and
[01:08:42] You know before what the one other
[01:08:46] Peas makers needed because there wasn't a lot of peace over there not a lot of peace
[01:08:51] And one of the stories I think that
[01:08:53] That little Mikey story here that kind of shows you the level of violence that was happening in Ramadi
[01:09:03] so I
[01:09:05] Came to visit
[01:09:07] Because I was on the other side of Ramadi and the guys from Delta
[01:09:12] First a small section of guys from Delta and then all of them ended up on the on the eastern side of Ramadi with the first the five last six band of brothers
[01:09:19] Awesome outstanding unit amazing
[01:09:24] guys to a man and
[01:09:27] With an amazing commander, but so Delta tuned ended up over there well anyways
[01:09:33] I'd gone over to to visit go go do some ops with them and see what's going on and
[01:09:38] When I showed up you know, I showed up and and this was a few is probably like a month and a half in
[01:09:44] Uh because the guys had taken over some crappy
[01:09:50] Building and
[01:09:52] Full metal jacket and had built it out FMJ
[01:09:55] So if you guys seen the movie full metal jacket that's a scene in the movie where these guys these buildings are all blown out well this building where
[01:10:03] Not not just the seals, but a bunch of guys army guys
[01:10:06] Lived in this building and it was all blown out and it looked like this awesome
[01:10:10] It was awesome
[01:10:12] When we first got in there the first one we first went out there it was dirt it was literally dirt floors
[01:10:17] Just mosquitoes everywhere. It was totally it was just horrible and
[01:10:22] Now sometime had passed and the guys of course you put seal somewhere. They're gonna dial some stuff in
[01:10:27] You see the CBS that we have this CBS we are my gosh the CBS we had were phenomenal and we don't know what CBS are
[01:10:34] They're sort of the Navy's version of engineers and
[01:10:37] They're they're fanatically hard workers and the crew that we had with us in our body that was that was we they were part of our tasking
[01:10:44] It they were just
[01:10:46] Total hard chargers and bus their ass and make stuff happen. So they had and the other thing the other thing you have to do in your
[01:10:53] Cb is you have to learn to acquire things because there's a lack of things
[01:10:58] In combat zone and so you're good CB can come up with let's call it you know
[01:11:04] 120 sheets of 4 by 8 plywood right that our master or CB master. She's awesome
[01:11:11] We got there do they had they had these racks built out for us in this balloon out concrete building
[01:11:17] That had like shells
[01:11:18] Yeah, stairs to go to the upper and do it was awesome. Yeah, so they take they that's what they've done is taken and just built the like into these
[01:11:25] Basically small plywood condominium
[01:11:29] And I
[01:11:31] Showed up there one time and
[01:11:34] You know, we're hanging out and you know the two commanders give me a little debrief on stuff and just kind of telling me how things are going
[01:11:40] And then someone says hey, did you see Mikey's video?
[01:11:43] And I go I go no and I go go see Mikey's video and so I go okay
[01:11:50] So they go his runs back there and what does room say on it? Oh
[01:11:53] Like Mikey's palace. Yeah, so I'm gonna grace story about Mikey's palace by the way
[01:11:57] So go ahead
[01:11:58] So I'm like he's so so the so the CB's have built these awesome
[01:12:02] plywood paradise for us and
[01:12:05] So you know people sleep we could sleep all different times right I mean daytime night time whatever because the obstacle was so intense and so
[01:12:12] Everything was totally blacked out and I got like an odd sleeping style like I can
[01:12:16] Well as a mole rat you know we have slightly different
[01:12:20] Cycle so
[01:12:22] Mikey had a different cycle like everybody would be asleep and I would be awake
[01:12:26] I'm back I always could find Mikey awake and Mike so you go in you go in he was on the ground floor and so you go down and it was pitch black
[01:12:34] And you have like feel your way through it all these bumps and then you go down around this corner down this hallway and you make a sharp right
[01:12:41] And and then there would be this faint and glow coming from Mike's palace and so Mikey's bunk was
[01:12:47] The last one up against the wall and there was like an extra like three feet between his bunk and the wall just the way that I
[01:12:52] Wait worked out and so he had like these tapestries that his family had sent him hanging from the wall and
[01:12:58] And he'd have like poncho liners all hung out blocking the whole thing out and so it was all dark
[01:13:03] It was like his little cave and you go back in there and I don't know where he got him be like extra pillows on his bunk and like he had his laptop like
[01:13:12] Like rigged that's like a
[01:13:13] TV screen if you always be watching movies and he always had all kinds of gaitunk back
[01:13:17] So I go back in there and I go in and glow for Mikey's palace I go back in there and we just said
[01:13:23] Hey man you want some of these have beef jerky that's so does he'd have like romans romony rules and he'd always had
[01:13:29] He had like this heating element like once like you plug into the wall
[01:13:32] He'd like hey man and yeah cook up the heating element boiling water right there
[01:13:36] Or some ramen I could have ever I was hungry in the middle and I'd I could get down there to Mikey's palace
[01:13:40] I knew I could get some grub and he night hang out and watch movies and stuff and he's always up weird hours like man
[01:13:46] And it was just cool man. He had just yeah, he was cool pictures
[01:13:50] Postures hanging on the wall. He had that thing
[01:13:52] Fricked out
[01:13:54] Yeah, so these guys are like hey, have you seen Mikey's movie and I go no
[01:13:59] So I go we'll go back to Mikey's palace and check it out and so I make my way back to our same
[01:14:04] They either you make your way back through the dark at the head lamp on even though it's noon or something right out outside
[01:14:09] But the place is blocked out anyway as I get back there and
[01:14:12] And I'm like Mikey and and he didn't know I was
[01:14:17] That I was at correct or you know, so he was just you know, you know kind of like hopped to or whatever in a very
[01:14:25] I don't want to make that sound too extreme, you know, but he was surprised to see the command
[01:14:30] But um anyways, I'm like Mikey. He's like oh, he's like hey, you know when they saw chill and I said
[01:14:34] Hey, let me see your movie man and he gets a smile on his face. I go okay
[01:14:38] This must be interesting so anyways he breaks out his camera. He's showing me the movie on the camera right
[01:14:43] But it's got volume and I'm sitting and watching it anyways the movie is
[01:14:47] It's a big firefight going on. It's just there's this is a big bad firefight
[01:14:53] There's machine gun fire going off and he's literally sticking his hand up with the camera above
[01:14:59] And you have a roof top and he's filming when you can see stuff getting shot whatever and
[01:15:03] And then the funny part is he brings the camera down. He's you know hiding in this rooftop and he points the camera out himself
[01:15:11] And the area of Ramadi that they were working in was a place called the Malab district and
[01:15:16] Like many things in the military it had taken on its own little life. It's own little legend the Malab district and
[01:15:23] Mikey points the camera out himself and he says it's the moolab
[01:15:27] Oh, baby and so it was really funny and
[01:15:33] And I get done watching this and of course, I'm still you know
[01:15:36] Mr. Big bad jacco and and I get done watching it. I go I go hey Mikey
[01:15:41] Listen bro
[01:15:42] When you're out there you shouldn't be filming stuff you need to be on your gun
[01:15:45] I mean that's just that's just what you need to be doing
[01:15:47] You need to get on your gun and and you need to keep shooting you need to put an ounce press and fire
[01:15:52] And he and he looks at me. He's kind of sheepishly you know because he felt bad he goes
[01:15:56] He goes
[01:15:58] He's like hey sir
[01:15:59] I was out at ammo
[01:16:03] Yeah, I started laughing because that's probably 800 rounds maybe maybe more probably 121 probably 12
[01:16:10] 100 yeah just a massive amount of machine gun rounds that he had gone through and he had shot them all
[01:16:15] That's what windchester means means you'd shot you had nothing left and he said you know
[01:16:20] Sir, I sorry sir. I was I was windchester
[01:16:22] I just started laughing. I was like well if you windchester makes a good movie. I guess my brother. He got after yeah, so that's uh another good
[01:16:31] Mikey story
[01:16:33] so
[01:16:36] You actually ended up going home
[01:16:38] early from deployment
[01:16:40] Yep, and because you had another kid on the way. Yep, Gunner
[01:16:46] He
[01:16:48] Ending thing is is it's like got him in hindsight to 2020 man, you know when when man when this stuff goes like this
[01:16:58] Mm
[01:16:59] We had point we knew that that was gonna be the end of the deployment
[01:17:03] And so it was like all right cool, you know you just go back with the with the ad on for the reapply
[01:17:07] And so that was all part of the plan
[01:17:09] From day one basically. All right cool
[01:17:11] Um because my first son had been born on my last deployment
[01:17:14] so as it was
[01:17:16] And and by the way so it started heading back what gives birth early anyway
[01:17:20] So there you go two deployments two kids not there
[01:17:23] Common story for a lot of military guys
[01:17:25] But people who are not you know, I mean imagine I cannot be in there for you or for either of your kids
[01:17:29] Well, why if she's a trooper, but she was running out of steam
[01:17:33] So it was cool to be able to go back and at least try to be there
[01:17:36] But Gunner's always been in a hurry
[01:17:38] So he came early um and then so yeah went back
[01:17:42] Um, start handling the redeploy and survive that he means we're
[01:17:48] Some guy comes home from deployment a little bit early to start basically preparing for us to come home
[01:17:53] Getting ready for all the administrative stuff that's gonna take place and Andrew was that guy
[01:17:58] And there's like that happened and then there was like three other guys it like a week later came the holiday too
[01:18:03] So it was you know
[01:18:04] Near the end, but it tough but it tough call anyway and then
[01:18:08] I mean I remember where I was when when I got the word so you know, I was back at the team and
[01:18:16] I was I was actually
[01:18:18] chatting with Delta Patin commander
[01:18:22] The method that we use and he I'm so I knew they were going out and and I mean I just think they remember going all right
[01:18:29] It gets some for me, you know, and so I was home. I got the call at like
[01:18:35] 12 30 at night
[01:18:37] Our time local and
[01:18:39] So I knew right away that was one of our guys
[01:18:42] They went you know nothing over the you know over the phone specifically
[01:18:45] But I knew because I had just talked to our guys, you know, and I was like got on my so I right raced into
[01:18:52] So you get the call that just says come to work. Yeah get to work kind of like all right so and
[01:18:58] Admittedly I'm a little frantic, you know because these are my brothers, you know, and I'm not there
[01:19:04] That's really hard
[01:19:07] So
[01:19:11] You know you can have some survivors guilt over that kind of thing. Yeah
[01:19:16] You know what seems like hey look we got this deployments basically over
[01:19:21] And go back thinking you're making a right decision trying to balance
[01:19:26] Stuff with your family
[01:19:28] And then for that to happen and you know
[01:19:32] He's one of my guys he's one of my guys and I wasn't there and
[01:19:38] And that's hard
[01:19:40] You know, it's been almost 10 years now and time helps to heal those kinds of things
[01:19:46] But I had a lot of guilt over that and
[01:19:48] And so anyway, we kind of figure out what's going on. I get the brief and figure out who it is
[01:19:55] So
[01:19:56] Start figuring out okay, so now it's now it's a race for those of you that don't know I mean look here's a thing
[01:20:01] We live in a 24 seven news world and it's a race to notify the family before they find out for some other means and
[01:20:10] He lives up in Orange County so we started assembling a team and you know
[01:20:17] Admirals and
[01:20:20] Commodore's are involved and
[01:20:23] It look
[01:20:24] This is the second guy that we have not lost seals on our act to this point mark and Mike now so
[01:20:30] um
[01:20:33] You know, it's who's gonna go to the notification and I mean like I had to like dig my heels in I was like listen
[01:20:37] This is my guy
[01:20:39] I'm going and
[01:20:40] It was at first like and then it was like no, no, no
[01:20:44] I'm going and
[01:20:45] Thank God I did that because I mean I wouldn't had it in the other way
[01:20:50] We're racing we put put the guys together throw the blues on we drive it up and
[01:20:54] You know look when we got to my key's family's house
[01:20:57] You know look at all they wanted was to talk to somebody who knew Mikey and the other four guys that were standing there
[01:21:04] Didn't know didn't serve with them didn't work up with them didn't deploy with them and
[01:21:08] You know in this grand scheme of God's plan
[01:21:11] I have to ask you know we pulled over before pulling up the uh pulling up to the house and put on our blues
[01:21:17] And I literally thought to myself okay
[01:21:20] That we are about to give the worst possible news to a to a parent
[01:21:24] Better kids that and I remember thinking you know
[01:21:30] God just used me right now
[01:21:32] I don't know why I'm here in this timing
[01:21:36] But just work work through me just use me you know
[01:21:40] So you know we knocked on their door and and
[01:21:43] You know Mrs. Montzure looked out and she later knew you know that we
[01:21:48] I mean she took a few minutes to get to the door she looked out and saw five minutes standing there and blues
[01:21:53] So that was very hard you know you go in and obviously families upset and you're doing the best you can to keep it together
[01:22:01] I mean for me this was my guy this was my brother and I'm standing there given them the news and trying to keep it together myself and
[01:22:11] You know the
[01:22:12] The good news is is that one by one they sort of looked around and said well do anybody know Mikey and I was like
[01:22:17] Yeah, I knew Mikey he used mine and
[01:22:20] So they you know playfully asked everybody to leave
[01:22:23] But wanted me to stay and just talk about the deployment tell stories about Mikey what he was like what was going on
[01:22:31] and you know I want to
[01:22:36] The Montzure's are an unbelievable family and I totally want to respect their privacy
[01:22:43] That's right family
[01:22:45] And they're just they just been so amazingly humble and gracious through this whole thing and I just don't want to
[01:22:54] Sit here and tell stories about about this right I don't want to do it
[01:23:05] One of the things that the the only the only thing I'll say about this again out of
[01:23:11] Just respect for the Montzure family
[01:23:16] Is when you just said about about
[01:23:21] You tell them what deployment was like well in talking to them
[01:23:27] one of the things that
[01:23:29] they said
[01:23:30] was
[01:23:32] We're
[01:23:33] Impression of the deployment so so like I said and you guys have heard stories about Ramadi and you could go and you can go on YouTube and just put Ramadi 2000s
[01:23:41] Yeah, you'll see what Ramadi was like
[01:23:44] That's what Ramadi was like and it was
[01:23:47] Incredibly violent and crazy and these guys
[01:23:53] Charlie and everything were in the thick of it in the thick of it on a almost daily basis
[01:24:00] And the reason I'm building that up is because the emails that Mike had sent home to his family
[01:24:08] Were oh yeah, I haven't fun not much going on here right don't worry about me
[01:24:12] We're just training some Iraqis don't worry about me. Oh, we're just we're just trying to work on the infrastructure
[01:24:18] Don't worry about me. It's all good here. I'll be home in a little bit though those are kind of emails
[01:24:23] That he was sending home in order to make sure that his family wasn't worried about right and
[01:24:29] It shows you what kind of a guy that Mike he was
[01:24:35] So so
[01:24:39] Any is there anything else again without without going into
[01:24:43] Your personal
[01:24:45] You know your personal interactions with this incredible family
[01:24:51] That you want to say and maybe from the perspective of
[01:24:54] As much as I hate to say this there's gonna be other people that are gonna do this job
[01:25:01] Being this person that does the notification
[01:25:04] Is there anything else that you could give advice to people that have to do this job or you know
[01:25:11] If they if that ever be falls people that I mean we get a lot
[01:25:14] Andrew we get a lot of big lot of military guys that that reach out to me all the time that are active duty that are doing it up to work and
[01:25:22] And
[01:25:24] Anything that strikes you is something that you learned from this experience
[01:25:28] Here's what I learned is the worst thing I've ever done in my life and
[01:25:32] The worst thing and
[01:25:35] Combat itself was a piece of cake compared to this. I would love to go back to combat
[01:25:40] Any
[01:25:41] Issues or concerns or anything from my military service was completely centered around this
[01:25:46] He is an extremely heavy burden to bear so if you're ever in this position. I don't have any good advice for you
[01:25:52] There's nothing you can do to prepare yourself for this type of situation the only thing I could tell you is
[01:25:59] Reach out to guys who've done it before I will gladly talk you through it because one of the best
[01:26:05] Salves that I've found for this kind of pain is hanging out with your brothers and spending time with them
[01:26:11] I will always have time for someone who's had that be a cake. Oh always
[01:26:14] Call me. Let's go out. Let's hang out. I won't suggest drinking a beer, but if it appears what you want to do will do it
[01:26:21] But the bottom line is is that just the intimacy of being around another guy who's been there is very comforting
[01:26:27] And so you know when you go through a stressful situation like this do not isolate yourself
[01:26:32] There are other guys who have been through this and
[01:26:36] And a true brother will be will be willing to take the time for you. I'll find a time for you no matter what no matter how busy I am
[01:26:41] And so I just want to be a resource now. I know that there's less so many hours in the day
[01:26:46] But if you're going through something if you've gone through something like this reach out to your brothers
[01:26:50] Find a connection to another military guy because nobody can understand it like another military guy
[01:26:56] And that's part of the stress of it part of the stress of it is is that you don't feel like you can possibly explain
[01:27:01] What you're dealing with to anybody else?
[01:27:03] There's no way they could possibly understand and comprehend it
[01:27:05] But another guy has been to combat can and we can sit in the room next to each other even if we sat there and said nothing
[01:27:10] We would get each other and so you got to reach out to each other do not isolate
[01:27:17] That's that's great advice and actually
[01:27:21] One thing that's very interesting to me is that I get emails from guys and
[01:27:25] That they're basically
[01:27:28] Doing that they're gonna do that right now with us. There's some of those guys out there that are that are going okay
[01:27:35] Yeah, and and the message is yeah, I mean
[01:27:37] The military guys had been through this kind of stuff before again. I was never cake
[01:27:43] I never even came home for my guys, you know, there was another kind of
[01:27:49] Another kind of misery I guess it does know you're just sending people home
[01:27:55] It's awful
[01:27:58] But yeah, don't isolate yourself
[01:28:01] Talk to your brothers
[01:28:03] Find them and tell them what you're thinking about yeah, and and this is awesome, right because
[01:28:09] Twitter and Facebook and messages like this, you know, we can kind of reconnect, you know
[01:28:14] We can kind of talk about doing some cool stuff together
[01:28:16] Whether it's due jits you or running a badass race or doing something to challenge you physically or mentally
[01:28:21] We all can kind of give ourselves a electronic high five, you know, if there's something badass you're still doing today
[01:28:27] And you know what here's another thing to transition man, man, so so so so we so that happens
[01:28:34] I'm home and in
[01:28:37] February 2007 I get off active duty and thanks so for those of you that don't track in the calendar here
[01:28:44] Mikey died September 29th
[01:28:46] 2006
[01:28:48] That whole thing unfolds we got home. I got home
[01:28:51] I was the last with the last group to leave and we left
[01:28:56] Remoddy October 21st
[01:28:59] Took us a couple days to get home, but now we're home. We get post appointment leave
[01:29:03] We reassemble well you do post appointment kind of debrief types up then we get post appointment leave
[01:29:08] So now you're talking it's December all of a sudden December, you know October is November. It's now it's the same thanksgiving now it's on this December boom
[01:29:16] And
[01:29:17] So not much time has gone by it's been packed and February you're getting out of the I'm gone and that warm machine keeps cranking by the way
[01:29:24] So the guys are back to right into another poll tuned they're doing pretty deployment work and whatever do whatever it just it keeps on cranking and
[01:29:31] And then proof I'm out of the Navy and I jump right into the mortgage business
[01:29:37] Because you know nothing like a natural transition from the seal teams and the battlefield of Ramadi to doing 30 year fixed mortgages
[01:29:44] And it's and it's 2007 though. Yeah, so you actually weren't doing
[01:29:49] Fixed mortgages for 30 years
[01:29:51] That the mortgage industry for those of you that don't know the mortgage industry in 2007 was a place where a lot of people were making a ton of money
[01:30:00] And it was about to all come to a screen. I was not making a ton of money
[01:30:04] I was just like that. I was brand new right so I leave this steady two week paycheck
[01:30:09] Brotherhood and a job I wanted to do
[01:30:11] My entire adult life at that point and had it just came for great deployment and get into the mortgage now
[01:30:17] I did that because I need to be home and by the way
[01:30:20] This much of the struggle was to get out and and I really my heart was truly torn in two opposite directions
[01:30:26] Man, I look back in the last nine ten years that I've had the opportunity to raise and shape my two young boys to be the young man
[01:30:34] That they're becoming have been absolutely
[01:30:36] priceless and
[01:30:38] But you know, so I find myself February sitting in the quiet office of a mortgage office at like
[01:30:44] 630 in the morning because that's just how I roll
[01:30:46] I got a key. I'm gonna get in there. I'm gonna figure it out and then nobody you know first guys not showing up
[01:30:50] It's like nine, you know, I'm in the reading guideline books trying to just you know
[01:30:54] I've no I've no paycheck. I've no income and so man it got rough. I started to struggle
[01:31:01] I'm struggling
[01:31:03] financially for one thing. I'm struggling emotionally
[01:31:06] I'm struggling in building new relationships and you know kind of like a little bit of a chip on the shoulder and a sort of a little bit of an attitude
[01:31:13] From combat to trying to build relationships in the civilian world and that was tough
[01:31:20] But I mean there were mornings. I sat there quietly and by the way that picture that you talked about at the beginning of this deal
[01:31:25] I have that hanging on my wall. I look at it every single day and
[01:31:30] One of the things that continued to drive me and for military guys who were listening
[01:31:34] As corny as this may sound
[01:31:37] The legacy of my brothers is what drives me
[01:31:40] The opportunity to help my fellow veterans drive me
[01:31:44] Because you know doing mortgages. Yeah, not super exciting right, but I sat there quietly trying to figure it out
[01:31:50] I I all I got divorced. I lost a house to for closure. I showed so to another house
[01:31:57] There's a time when I looked over my young son Gunner is asleep it on the floor. I got no furniture in the house a house
[01:32:03] That's days from it's already been foreclosed and it's days away from the sheriff coming to say get out and
[01:32:10] That drives me and I think about Mikey and the sacrifice that Mikey and Mark made and it drives me because they made a sacrifice and
[01:32:22] In some ways this is this is bad talk right here and
[01:32:25] In some ways I beat myself up that I wasn't on the roof that day with Mikey because that was my opportunity and I came home early for my son
[01:32:33] And then I think well if I had it on that roof
[01:32:37] Maybe it could have been me and then there wouldn't be a father there to raise Gunner and to raise Tristan into the next generation of warriors
[01:32:44] And either way the sacrifice at Mikey made
[01:32:47] He made that so that I could live and I have an obligation to
[01:32:51] To use every ounce of my ability to use my mind and my body and my drive and my determination to fight in kick and scratch every single day to honor his legacy
[01:33:04] To build and to mentor young men to help my fellow veterans and to make this country a greater country and
[01:33:11] All those things
[01:33:12] The more I do the more I feel like I can honor Mikey in his legacy and
[01:33:16] To do anything else would be to slight the great sacrifice that he made and so
[01:33:24] Think of your brothers if you're in a military and you're out now and you're trying to get what think your brothers honor them
[01:33:30] And you and I were having dinner
[01:33:34] Actually we're having dinner at the
[01:33:36] Christening of the USS Michael Montsour awesome ship and
[01:33:40] And you were going into that situation you just kind of rattled it off just now like it wasn't no big thing right
[01:33:48] Your kid is sleeping on the floor because you have no bed no furniture you're that by the way that that
[01:33:54] Paycheck you've been accustomed to getting for whatever five years in the Navy is gone
[01:33:59] Right when you get out of the military after five years you don't get anything you get nothing
[01:34:04] So you have no paycheck coming in but there's no salary in the mortgage industry right
[01:34:09] So it's all 100% commission your son is sleeping on the floor because you have no furniture
[01:34:15] You've foreclosed on one house you short sold another house and you're about to get evicted
[01:34:22] That's your life at this point right
[01:34:26] Not to mention in the back of your mind or in the front of your mind
[01:34:32] You got this thought
[01:34:34] that
[01:34:36] Mikey died
[01:34:38] And you weren't there right
[01:34:42] How did you look at all that and
[01:34:48] Shug your shoulders
[01:34:50] Grit your teeth and say I'm gonna kick this things ass
[01:34:57] Where did you start at the very bottom?
[01:35:01] I'd like to think I bounced because I hit so hard
[01:35:09] Never give up
[01:35:11] The legacy of my teammates. I mean here's the deal. I think about guys that are committing suicide today or thinking about committing suicide and
[01:35:21] Think about this. Do you want to give that
[01:35:25] nasty
[01:35:26] Enemy even one more victory
[01:35:29] Fuck them
[01:35:33] I am going to win because I am not going to let them defeat me
[01:35:39] And I look at my boys. I pray it a lot for me. It's my faith and Jesus Christ saved me
[01:35:47] So I keep fighting
[01:35:49] And you know what that's just
[01:35:52] Never gonna quit never you are not done until you're six feet under
[01:35:57] The ain't done
[01:35:59] I would tell you if I ever found myself in combat where I was shot and dying and often my own an Afghanistan or something like that for example
[01:36:07] I would take the
[01:36:09] Glass grenade I had
[01:36:11] Pulled the pin and laid underneath myself
[01:36:13] So that when the enemy came to try and get my gear
[01:36:16] They blow themselves up
[01:36:17] Because I am not done until I am gone
[01:36:21] And even then if you've laid the right foundation the legacy you leave the messages and what you've done to help the next generation
[01:36:28] That's it
[01:36:29] I'm just never gonna quit never you can knock me down and I will get back up you cannot be down and I will get back up
[01:36:36] I will get back up. I will get back up. They obviously
[01:36:40] Well for those of you don't know because you don't know Andrew he did get back up
[01:36:43] He absolutely got back up. He now runs a very successful business and is out kicking ass on a day
[01:36:50] Rebase this and taking names and it's been you know a lot of this you know again
[01:36:57] Whenever I look at myself and I went on this big
[01:37:00] little or I went on this big kind of
[01:37:04] Tyrate about how you need to mentor your people and all that
[01:37:08] And take care of your brothers. Well guess what you know where I was when Andrew was going through this shit
[01:37:14] I was working
[01:37:16] I was working he didn't call me he didn't
[01:37:19] And I didn't make myself available
[01:37:23] You know so you
[01:37:26] Go go you know taking care of of your friends goes beyond just when they ask for help
[01:37:32] You need to seek them out and make sure that they're doing all right
[01:37:34] Because I let him go and that was that
[01:37:37] Get out of the Navy and it was bye bye and keep in mind. I wasn't gonna come and ask you because maybe I was a little embarrassed
[01:37:43] You know about how dire my situation was so if you're a leader just know just like kids who are going through buds
[01:37:49] They're gonna hide their injuries
[01:37:51] Right because you know I don't want to come to the guy who I respect and say hey, I am flat out right now, bro
[01:37:56] You know so I'm just gonna keep digging and I know we talked about it. You're like man. Why didn't you come to me?
[01:38:02] I don't you know what it wasn't a mine hatred to do so
[01:38:05] Maybe that wasn't the best decision. Maybe I should have reached out but
[01:38:09] Either way, I wasn't gonna quit
[01:38:14] Well, that's awesome and it's awesome to see
[01:38:17] What you've done
[01:38:19] See where you're at now like I said kicking ass and taking maids and and raising to a badass young man
[01:38:26] They're good boys man the next generation of warriors. That's one of the things I'll be compassionate about I'll tell you
[01:38:30] You know
[01:38:31] When you get out any transition
[01:38:33] It is it's hard because you leave this brotherhood you leave this common scent this common goal and you know
[01:38:39] You're fighting for freedom you're fighting for liberty and you're fighting for your brother and your sister
[01:38:42] You're right left and then you get into some
[01:38:45] Job where you're sitting in a desk
[01:38:47] Type it on a computer which is boring
[01:38:50] So you have to look here's a deal you have to find a purpose behind what you're doing and
[01:38:56] Mortgage is like seriously jumping out of planes
[01:38:59] Blown things up shooting guns diving
[01:39:01] Rebreathers all all high ends up to doing 30-year-fix mortgages. I mean
[01:39:05] Wall wall I mean how do you how do you get excited about that look you don't you don't get excited about doing that
[01:39:10] All right, I'm really honestly what you get excited about is something else behind it and for me
[01:39:14] It's helping my fellow veterans so
[01:39:15] You don't know nine people show my business. I do VA loans. Okay, so why because I want to help my fellow veterans
[01:39:21] Nobody will take care of that or better. And I will and that's that's my mantra right if if if if a guy goes down the street
[01:39:26] You will not be taking care of
[01:39:28] Better than if he comes to me because I am deeply passionate about helping my fellow veterans
[01:39:33] And that's how I get passionate about the job that I do now. I find a purpose behind what I'm doing and so you might be in some job now that you're out
[01:39:40] And you might be a god just
[01:39:42] Sox you know
[01:39:43] But find a reason behind it could be a small thing
[01:39:47] Right like there were jobs in the military that sucked. There were jobs there there's parts of every job that sucks
[01:39:53] You just got to deal with it. That's life and find a purpose behind what you're doing and then and then
[01:39:58] I'll just tell you this is a this is like one of these secrets of life that I have found
[01:40:03] Life is easier when you find a way to help somebody else when you find a way to help somebody else
[01:40:08] Miraculously your problems begin to go away
[01:40:12] So focus on somebody else's problems and how you can help them and all of a sudden you forget about yours
[01:40:18] And so find a way to help other veterans. I see guys. I see veterans today who are
[01:40:22] Who have been blown up and lost limbs and had been in similar difficult situations and they are make they're doing
[01:40:29] Fantastic because they've started organizations or leading organizations or deeply involved in organizations that are helping fellow veterans
[01:40:35] And there it is. It's like this mirror. It's like this miracle. You sit out to help somebody else and I'll have sudden your problems
[01:40:42] Just seem to melt away. So if you're struggling right now
[01:40:46] You can reach out to me
[01:40:48] Facebook Twitter whatever just share your story
[01:40:51] Connect and then find a way to help someone else
[01:40:55] And do it in a way that you're passionate about man. I mean I'm passionate about raising my two boys into the next generation of warriors
[01:41:01] I'm I'm passionate about I mean for it's look around at the
[01:41:05] Spindless cowards that society is raising today
[01:41:09] Who is raising the next generation of warriors to keep America the greatest country on the planet
[01:41:15] This generation that says that everybody gets a trophy that you get a freaking
[01:41:23] Graduation certificate when you graduate from first grade that's bullshit all right
[01:41:29] So you get a piece of coal going to kick in the ass, that's right
[01:41:33] You get something when you earn something and so raising my boys into
[01:41:38] It's hard young men to become gentlemen strong warriors men of character who wills who will have a spine and stand for something
[01:41:48] That's what we need to do and those you guys have been to combat certain arm military
[01:41:53] You know how to do that
[01:41:55] If you don't have kids find a way to involve in local high school
[01:41:58] Maybe a local middle school instead of be a role model and set an example for some young boys to be the next generation of badass American warrior
[01:42:05] Who will stand for and protect this country and protect liberty? That's something to get pretty excited about I get passionate about that
[01:42:12] Yeah, that's something that everybody needs to get passionate about and like you said especially the veterans that
[01:42:17] That no one understand that and they no one understand and appreciate what real freedom is that's right
[01:42:25] Well, I think that's
[01:42:28] All we've got for tonight
[01:42:30] Jimmy
[01:42:31] Closing comments. I think you just about summed up
[01:42:37] Well first and foremost
[01:42:39] Andrew
[01:42:40] Thanks for your service
[01:42:42] Thank you for answering the nations call and I appreciate what you did for me and what you did for the teams
[01:42:51] Thanks for coming on the podcast and sharing your lessons learn not only about combat, but about what comes after combat
[01:42:58] That
[01:43:00] Then for those of you out there listening to the podcast
[01:43:04] And you want to keep listening to podcast you want to support the podcast
[01:43:09] My brother echo Charles gonna tell you how to do that
[01:43:13] Before I tell you I actually have a question yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a way light-hearted question compared to let's go
[01:43:19] So when you go into the mortgage industry, yeah, and you know there's other people in the office as well
[01:43:24] Like what did they think about did they know you know you're you're you're past they find out you know, but it's hard to right because in the seal teams we have
[01:43:34] We have a quiet
[01:43:35] Professionalism and so one of the things that I've struggled with is you know
[01:43:39] Look, I'm I'm certainly proud of my service, but I don't want to use my service in my background in the seal team
[01:43:44] Does a way to advertise and there are many there are douchebags in the mortgage business who pray on
[01:43:49] Military dude and and they've got some great fancy marketing, but they're hard to not in the right place
[01:43:55] So
[01:43:56] Relationships little by little it it sneaks out and it's fine of other people know, but no
[01:44:00] I don't walk in there and tell people that it hey, I'm a Navy seal. I mean
[01:44:02] You know, Tony was just on a week and yeah, and I don't know why we've never talked about this before
[01:44:07] I've never talked about this before but like anyone that actually calls themselves a Navy seal
[01:44:11] It's like suspect right here. Hey, how's it going? I'm a Navy seal
[01:44:14] All right, what's the name of seal? They're just so like you can tell me you're going away
[01:44:17] Just like what's this guys deal right? All right, just no right no right exactly but like you like okay
[01:44:24] Jocca walks in we meet Jocco for example and
[01:44:29] He's you know whatever he's Jocco we're gonna be kind of like hey
[01:44:33] Are you in maybe seal kind of thing but you you're kind of like in every day guy
[01:44:38] I kind of do so you're like kind of like the guy in the movie who they show him work
[01:44:42] You know whatever and it flashes back to his passing he's kind of the superhero
[01:44:46] You know you're like one of those kind guys
[01:44:50] Do they like do you think that they looked at you like that like oh yeah
[01:44:53] You're just you know our guy co-worker kind of thing but and then maybe one guy heard a room right this guy is you know
[01:44:58] This this the heart and warrior and they're the other guys like no
[01:45:01] No way look at that you know me. Yeah, it's um and that's how I'd prefer it
[01:45:06] I mean I'd rather be oh they've not knowing yeah, I'd rather be in the shadow
[01:45:09] I mean cuz look here's a deal
[01:45:11] None of us do this for acolyte none of us do this for the look at me and the guys who advertise like Jocco say and they're suspect because they probably didn't really do it
[01:45:18] You know
[01:45:19] But I'd say probably one of the best compliments I probably ever got was I heard about a conversation that happened when I wasn't there and
[01:45:27] This guy was like yeah, did you know that guys a navy seal and the other person said no
[01:45:33] Well, wait guys. He's so nice. You know
[01:45:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what it means. Yeah, I'd rather be I'd rather be stealth like that
[01:45:40] So you know it makes even more interesting is again
[01:45:42] We'll use Jocco as an example if Jocco kind of walks in a room and guys, you know
[01:45:47] Let's say a trouble maker guy. Yeah, they're gonna look at him be like
[01:45:49] I don't know. I'll start and being with this guy big
[01:45:53] Minot have been a you know a team guy
[01:45:55] But then you you don't have that to look at you know but not only
[01:46:01] And you know you did to though
[01:46:03] To me that makes it even more it yeah, but that's all you need really
[01:46:07] So it makes it that much more interesting to me, you know and it's great right because you know what a lot of times
[01:46:13] But I would say more often than not when we if we were out as a puttune guys would actually
[01:46:19] Wanna start a fight with a guy that looks like Jocco because they're they're looking to like test themselves
[01:46:23] Yeah, whereas like guys I mean that would be a massive miscalculation
[01:46:27] You know like really end of life event extinction my event kind of decision
[01:46:34] To be not to counter I know exactly what you're saying but like
[01:46:37] The facts are people don't mess with me when I'm out in public. Yeah, they just don't but I know exactly what you're talking about
[01:46:43] It's always some big guy the tall guy. I get somebody coming up to him and
[01:46:47] And actually you know you and I talked about this too for those of you are on the podcast
[01:46:50] You can't you know that are listening and you doesn't look like stereotypical seal
[01:46:54] He's a hundred and fifty five pounds
[01:46:56] He's what it how tall are you five seven five seven Susan look he's not your stereotypical
[01:47:03] seal looking guy now again that the public with that the public with things I guys gonna say
[01:47:07] There's no stereotype and some of the most badass guys are there every size
[01:47:12] But this is something that Andrew said to me one time which was
[01:47:17] You know he's you know basically people see me and what do they think they think oh this guy
[01:47:21] You know, he's just gonna be a knuckle dragger and and he thinks everybody needs to be big giant
[01:47:27] You know head smashers right and the fact of the matter is
[01:47:32] What what I care about is?
[01:47:34] Can you do your job and can you do it well are you tough? Are you brave?
[01:47:38] Can you lead and that's why Andrew I?
[01:47:44] He was like actually surprised like when you finally told me you know you like man, you know
[01:47:48] I was kind of thought you might not like me, you know because
[01:47:54] You know smaller and and
[01:47:56] You know I don't look like a seal and I was like bro
[01:47:59] It's not about how what you look like it's about how you act and can you do this job?
[01:48:04] Are you brave or are you gonna step up can you lead great example leadership right like that's what you that's what you
[01:48:10] That was one point you focused on what was the capability of the person your team not what they look like and and some guys can do that
[01:48:15] Right they can they can go well, you know this or that but you were like I don't know them in this guy
[01:48:19] He puts out and get job done he's leading
[01:48:22] So you know your kind of like you some Dalton you're but watch roadhouse
[01:48:28] Oh, I remember yeah when they were like hey, I thought you'd be bigger
[01:48:31] He's this badass sponsor with the right right that a bad comparison
[01:48:35] Will that give me killed that bro?
[01:48:37] He does he does actually you know look a lot like Patrick's ways
[01:48:40] Thank you I appreciate your hands. Yeah, I'd rather remain stealth, you know and and use that to my advantage
[01:48:47] You know and kind of remain thought as the underdog
[01:48:51] You know you won't see me coming my member will hang out your house jacco and and
[01:48:57] Tristan said he goes hey
[01:48:59] Who would win in a fight you were Jaco?
[01:49:01] And I was like thanks buddy right in front of jacco and I was like
[01:49:05] Can't wear a smashy later. And I go well. I'm not stupid enough to start a fight with Jaco
[01:49:13] Oh wait till he's asleep
[01:49:17] Awesome, I've got we're on the same team rather big
[01:49:21] But yes
[01:49:22] If you do want to support this podcast there are some ways if you if you don't know already
[01:49:27] We didn't talk about supplementation or many things that would
[01:49:31] Require supplementation but if you're into it on it has the best ones common knowledge and oh
[01:49:39] 10% off on it dot com slash jacco 10% off
[01:49:42] If you need info on any of these supplements like the literature behind it all that stuff it's on there
[01:49:48] extensively if you want
[01:49:51] 10% off
[01:49:52] Support yourself your wallet as well also when you do Amazon shopping
[01:49:56] Um
[01:49:59] We have a click through link on our websites which supports the podcast
[01:50:03] You know when you shop and of course subscribe to the podcast on
[01:50:06] I too and you too leave it review leave it review. Yeah, let me know what's up. Yeah, let us know what's up
[01:50:15] Yeah, yeah, those are these are helpful men because
[01:50:20] Yeah, like if they're like hey jacco stop saying like like all the time
[01:50:24] No, I don't say like right that's why you know I mean so yeah, there you go
[01:50:30] But you know prayer for yeah, yeah, yeah, leave a review man if you're in the mood and then of course jacco store
[01:50:36] You can buy some shirts some mugs
[01:50:39] Some rash guards some stickers. We have women's coming out in
[01:50:45] Three days it'll be out by the time this is out. It's up. Yeah women's is out. Yeah, I'm sure. I got to say
[01:50:52] I like the curl oil. I used the curl yeah, and I'm on the um like the
[01:50:59] The much what's up the shrewtack
[01:51:01] That is good. You know work. Yeah, yeah, the droop tack on. Yeah, I like it did I was I was I was it
[01:51:07] You're good to go. I like it the shrewtack is legit. Yeah, yeah, as is the curl oil. Yeah, yeah
[01:51:11] Yeah, yeah, the real oil. I was I was telling him last time where I
[01:51:15] Started the krill oil and because I was looking we're when I work out I have strong you know sword joints
[01:51:20] But I do have sword joints when I wake up. I just never thought about that when people say
[01:51:25] She's sword joints and stuff. You know you just sore man cool all this and my daughter would jump on my back to wake me up
[01:51:31] Now I got to walk downstairs with his girl. I'm maybe
[01:51:34] Take krill oil maybe three four days later
[01:51:37] No problem. I can get up I'm walking down the stairs easy like noticeably, you know
[01:51:42] Nice fill oil jump on it. Also on Amazon got that get some of that jokkawaii tea right here
[01:51:52] Taste and good you can step up your game with the antioxidants and a micro dose of caffeine get you rocking in
[01:51:59] Roland and while you're out there just grab yourself a
[01:52:04] Grab yourself a copy of extreme ownership
[01:52:06] The book that me and my brother, life-badden wrote and if you already have a copy that's cool
[01:52:12] Just go ahead and get one for your boss mess
[01:52:15] Get one for your team your mommy dad whoever
[01:52:19] Hard-covered digital
[01:52:21] Or if you want to hear life and I talking for eight straight hours
[01:52:24] Get the audio book because that's what it is and also if you want even more
[01:52:29] Come out to the extreme ownership master October 20th and 21st and San Diego California leadership conference will be breaking down the fun to
[01:52:36] Mental principles of combat leadership and
[01:52:40] Teaching and talking about how to employ them on the battlefield in business and in life
[01:52:46] So registered
[01:52:48] And we'll see you there Andrew Paul's gonna be there by the way. Oh, yeah
[01:52:51] Echo Charles is gonna be there by the way. We'll be getting after it's coming out and
[01:52:58] As always if you want to keep kicking it with echo Charles and with me we're all up
[01:53:04] In the interwebs
[01:53:07] Twitter Instagram and even that face bookie. We're there echo is at echo Charles
[01:53:14] I am at jokka willing and if you want to get Andrew Paul go
[01:53:18] the Andrew M Paul the Andrew M Paul is that on Twitter on Twitter the Andrew M Paul
[01:53:25] So if you want to get the Andrew M Paul and
[01:53:28] You can hit him up face book. I'm on Facebook Andrew Paul veteran advocate. Oh, there you go boom
[01:53:37] Awesome and once again and you thank you for coming on
[01:53:42] It means a lot to me to have you on here and I really appreciate you coming on and now
[01:53:49] to everybody listening
[01:53:52] People in uniform people in business suits people in cover-alls
[01:53:56] People
[01:53:59] Everyone we talk today
[01:54:04] About Mikey Montsour
[01:54:07] And I want to leave you with this
[01:54:10] Mikey Montsour was named after Saint Michael
[01:54:16] St. Michael is the warrior archangel that led heavens army against Satan
[01:54:22] Satan
[01:54:25] Saint Michael was known as
[01:54:27] the principle of the angelic warriors
[01:54:33] and was seen as a protector against the darkness
[01:54:41] And in the Christian religion
[01:54:43] specifically in the Anglican and the Catholic and the Lutheran churches
[01:54:47] September
[01:54:49] 29th
[01:54:51] September 29th
[01:54:53] is known as Michael mass
[01:54:58] or Saint Michael's day
[01:55:02] and that day
[01:55:05] September 29th
[01:55:07] 2006
[01:55:10] was the day that our Saint Michael
[01:55:15] Mikey Montsour
[01:55:17] was killed in Iraq
[01:55:20] The city of Ramadi
[01:55:22] sacrificing his life
[01:55:26] to save the lives
[01:55:29] of three of his teammates
[01:55:33] three of his brothers
[01:55:36] three of his friends
[01:55:41] And I would ask you this
[01:55:43] September 29th
[01:55:48] comes around
[01:55:52] Remember
[01:55:56] And I would ask that while you honor
[01:55:59] the hero and you honor the warrior
[01:56:03] that Michael Montsour
[01:56:05] was
[01:56:07] Please
[01:56:10] Also remember
[01:56:12] that Mikey was a person
[01:56:18] He was a smiling kid
[01:56:23] He was a jokester
[01:56:26] He was a determined man
[01:56:30] a brother
[01:56:32] a son
[01:56:34] an uncle
[01:56:37] a friend
[01:56:39] a
[01:56:41] Michael Montsour was a young man
[01:56:46] with hopes
[01:56:48] and plans and aspirations
[01:56:51] and dreams
[01:56:55] dreams
[01:56:57] for his future
[01:56:59] and dreams for his life
[01:57:01] and
[01:57:08] and in that moment of truth
[01:57:14] He gave them all
[01:57:18] all those hopes and all those dreams
[01:57:21] He gave them all
[01:57:23] to us
[01:57:34] Remember that
[01:57:45] And until next time
[01:57:49] This is echo
[01:57:51] And jokero
[01:57:54] in my brother and two Paul
[01:57:55] out