Jocko Podcast 38 w/ Echo Charles - The Path | Land Nav w/ The Kids | The Academy

2016-09-03T23:57:00Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles. 0:00:00 – Opening 0:10:20 – Jocko takes his kids on PATROL / Land Navigation. 0:54:00 – The Beloved Captain 1:23:56 – Dope Internet and Onnit Stuff 1:28:56 – Leader has High Standards, but no Respect from the team. 1:39:18 – Denying your boss’s hand shake with tact when you have no respect for him. 1:48:36 – Jocko’s Academy for Youth? 1:59:20 – Hesitations on a new High Position. Questioning if you’re good enough for it. 2:06:44 – Taking ownership of “mixed messages” to your group from other leaders. 2:12:19 – What is “The Path”? And where does it lead?

AI summary of episode

and there's ways you can kind of do that to yourself like I do if like even if you have like an ultimately when when you boil kind of your whole way of thinking down when you do have an ego that you think is like a functional ego but use that ego to win the long word so like kind of like what I did with getting mad it's like no one can like my like no one's gonna tell me I have a little self esteem because really you know anger and grace is usually because a little self esteem so in this case you could be like hey if you ever facilitate that adversarial relationship where you don't shake his hand or you're like you want to as he said you've communicated that to him you have leader that you don't respect and you know is ineffective and you told them yeah that's that's a little bit different from what I was kind of saying but nonetheless if you go to on it dot com slash juggle you can get 10% off their their supplements anyway my point being with that story is that their supplements are all like legit and you can even read like about it like their peel oil I said this before I feel like I said this before but you can see like how they harvest them they use like eco friendly boats like it's like it's basically the ones you want to go boats but if you can afford to come out come on out because you being there is gonna make us all better because every single person that look I get so many responses on Twitter I get so many stuff so much stuff through through the social media that I'm learning from everyone here so anybody that can come out and participate and ask that question or give that scenario or give that piece of input is gonna make us all better so come on out and get some and as always if you want to continue this conversation you know where you can find us all up on the interwebs Twitter Instagram and that Facebookie bohaha it's echo at echo Charles and I am at Jocca Willink and finally to you to those of you out there in the battle our military guys you know I rack and in Syria fighting against a truly evil and abhorrent enemy stay sharp stay focused and be aggressive it'll keep you alive to the police officers who are suffering through a hard times right now verbal and physical attacks I'm gonna tell you take the high ground in both of those cases detach from that negativity and do your job to the best your ability be smart and stay safe and of course the firefighters and the emergency medical teams that keep us safe keep us healthy and come to us in our time of need you all stay vigilant and train hard and to the rest of you troopers out there all over the world doing what you are doing make sure you do that thing with every ounce of effort you got and make sure you stay on the war path and get after it so until next time this is echo and jockel out whoever does it you think needs to get on board with the program get him a copy that's kind of a good initiator form and also October 20th and 21st in San Diego we are having the extreme ownership mustard that is also life babbin and myself we're gonna be getting granular granular with the combat leadership lessons that we learned on the battlefield and how you apply those lessons in your business and in your life now that event is going to be extremely interactive it's more knocking behind behind the curtain we're gonna be out front with the troops if you got questions we are gonna answer them if you got something you need we're gonna talk about it if you got a problem we're gonna come up with a solution I say we because we we're gonna work together we're gonna learn I can't wait to see how much I'm gonna learn with the the list of people that are coming is awesome it and and again it's gonna be a hard conversation it's gonna bring out that statement should bring out the conversation of what people don't agree on and why they're sending messages now if you if you cannot get them aligned it is a serious problem but if you can't the best thing you can do is mitigate mitigate that to your team by becoming the trusted voice so so with your team you want to become the trusted voice now you doesn't mean that you're going to undermine your other leaders it's a echo came in here he doesn't know what he's talking about no no that's not what I'm talking about I'm never almost never talking about undermining another leader or a leadership team what I'm going to do though is I'm going to translate I'm gonna say hey guys our job on this I know echo said that here's our job here's here's what our focus needs to be here's the way this translates for us it's that's the interesting thing because you know like just kind of on the surface we're like a fuck what's jockel into it's not like you know something creates like something it looks like it sounds kind of delicate hey you're going to go here from six grade to graduation you go for like one year you go one year here you go back to your regular school after you've been in the school for a year you're going back to your regular school you're going to totally dominate you're going to be number one you're going to learn so much more it's just going to be awesome so we would need to bring we wouldn't need to bring these young these these children into the school for for the entire time because you know you could go back out of the regular world and overlay what you learned at the academy and you would just dominate I would I would foster that thread through everything so that everything made sense in a big picture and that way when you get granular you're tying it into this overlying theme of civilization and the movement of the way things go through civilization now I'll tell you another piece of this you would learn vocational skills at my school a hundred percent you would learn carpenter you would learn how to do electrical wiring you would learn plumbing you would learn automotive and repair you would learn all those things and guess what are you going to take those courses like I said this this court this school would probably only be a year long that's fine because guess what you know long it takes to learn basic carpenter not real long are you know and I'm sure this would probably I'm sure this would would be implemented in the whole system is how the teachers and instructors are treated for sure you know like because I think that's a lot of the time anyway like one of the many issues you know one that one issues come up in education it's like how are the teachers regarded but you should at least know what the requirements of my job are you shouldn't at least know what the outcomes at a strategic level of my job are right you see what I'm saying there's a difference so you don't have to go in there and be overly humble you don't have to go in there and be overtly blank wide open with what you don't know because again I was cautious to make this note because this doesn't I you should feel comfortable enough saying hey I don't know how to do this or hey can you explain that the way that works to me can you explain what this project you know what this project entails there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that And you're like, oh, like, you knew how's joking, but he was like, you know, kind of like, what would you think about that? So, like I said in life, plan, study the route that you're going to go, think about the obstacles, how are you going to avoid them, what do your goals look like, what do your smaller goals look like, along the way, the little reference points. You know, kind of like he's, it's almost like him and Matrix run the same team still, you know, he knows how he would see that, you know, kind of that same thing. but then you know you want to go well when you think about it you're probably wouldn't be that hardcore in fact it'd probably be kind of fun given your approach to you know teaching or in leading and stuff like that because man I remember when I it was like when I first met you I met you and you don't remember when I first met you so that's what happens needs to happen here with the leadership team we've got to find out who's right and people that are right need to convince that people that are wrong now you need to check your ego obviously cross the board every team everybody on the teams got to check the ego because a lot of people will be holding on to their idea because it's their idea and they love their idea because there's egotistical and that's how I would deal with mixed messages coming down the chain of command I'm gonna go ahead and just say it that that could have been one of the best lines I've ever heard if you're right you'll win the argument if you're wrong you'll change your mind that's a good that's a good one you just think that up and I'm not or I'm having some issues and some hesitations on if I'll be good enough have you ever been in a position before were you tried to bite off more than you can chew professionally how do you approach it and is there ever a time where you think it's best to bow out and quit and if so how do you know when that point is so actually most people get hired into leadership positions they haven't been in before the seal teams is all about that you get promoted you do that leadership job and just as you're getting the hang of it you get promoted again so there's nothing abnormal about feeling that you aren't quite ready for a leadership position and the reason that some people fail when they get to these positions that they're not ready for is because they're nervous that they're going to show that and so they try to hide it they're afraid to ask questions they're afraid to say they don't know so they end up looking scared and stupid which equates to looking incompetent yeah you can I don't know if it was a documentary it's something like that word a guy just put chalk that's all it was chalk and there he was like hey look protein powder sell it and either he found there was like there was no regulation saying he couldn't do it technically but I've looked for property and said okay this would probably work so like a like almost like an extension school like in the little so or just have them like where they're like you know welcome come to the gym you know like these They have Arnold because he's like, he's walking around the compound that he's kind of like, you know, and all these guys are like talking tough and stuff. yeah they only have triple air whatever sure they get saved but if they can do them themselves you know so at my school you would learn those vocational skills and then on top of that you'd learn basic survival skills little hunting little fishing little gardening and planting and how to grow things grow food and your basics water fire and shelter you learn those so you'd be able to survive in an environment in any situation obviously with all those survival skills and the vocational skills and even the classroom knowledge skills there would be a a system of team building where you're going to be doing things together as a team not only for your classes but also cleaning the place working together as a team and that's what they do in military boot camps all you do clean but you also part of leadership is confidence and up and down so you gotta have some confidence and you people have to have some confidence in you and if if you don't know anything and you can't figure it out for you can't figure out some portions of that on your own that's not a good sign because I just expect if you're gonna be in charge of me that you couldn't look that up you didn't you didn't review this before you came in here I know you don't know my job So if this guy's near presence can make these other guys follow him like that in these type of situations, like if more people would be like this guy, you know. like I'm really not this good you can be like champion of the world on the inside you're like this just a matter of time before they find me out you know Man, that pretty much every word that's coming from that is like, man, it's reminding me of this where, like, this certain people in a group that can do that, that can go and like, you know, he'll wash your shoes and you don't, you don't automatically have that respect. And in some cases, you'll have less respect if like, sure, like they're kissing your butt and they don't have anything to look up to, you know, or, you know, these these kind of guys or whatever. So that's pace notes and it, and it, it's almost like a rehearsal, you know, it's almost like a rehearsal because you can, you can walk the whole team through and they can get a visualization of what they're going to see and how it's going to look.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 38
[00:00:04] With echo Charles and me joccal willink
[00:00:08] We're
[00:00:10] Foot
[00:00:11] Slog slog slog slog slog in over Africa foot foot foot
[00:00:19] Slog in over Africa boots boots boots boots
[00:00:23] Boots moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war 6 7 11 5 9 and 20 mile today 4 11 17 32 the day before boots boots boots boots boots
[00:00:41] Moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war
[00:00:46] Don't don't don't don't don't look at what's in front of you boots boots boots
[00:00:52] boots boots moving up and down again men men men men men men
[00:00:59] Men men go mad with watching them and there's no discharge in the war
[00:01:04] Try try try try try to think of something different. Oh my god
[00:01:12] Keep me from going lunatic boots boots boots boots boots
[00:01:16] Boots moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war count count count count
[00:01:24] Count the bullets in the bandeliers if your eyes drop they will get our top of you boots boots boots boots
[00:01:33] Boots moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war. We can stick out hunger
[00:01:42] Thursdays and weariness, but not not not not the chronic side of them boots boots boots
[00:01:50] Boots moving up and down again and there's no discharge in the war
[00:01:56] Taint so bad by day because a company but night brings long strings of 40,000 million boots boots boots boots
[00:02:07] moving up and down again. There's no discharge in the war. I have marched six weeks in hell and certified
[00:02:17] It's not fire devils docker anything but boots boots boots boots
[00:02:24] Moving up and down again and there's no discharge in the war
[00:02:28] Good evening echo. Good evening. That's a poem. That's a poem called Infantry Colombs
[00:02:49] by Kippling. Who we've actually read before on the podcast. He was a British correspondent. He was an
[00:03:02] author. He was a poet. He was a patriot. A British patriot. And he was actually also critical of war
[00:03:12] and paraphrased from a book by a guy named David Gilmore, the long recessional. The imperial life
[00:03:23] of Richard Kippling. Kippling was deeply critical of how the war was fought and by the way
[00:03:29] he's talking about World War One of how the war was fought by the British Army as opposed to the war
[00:03:34] itself, which is kind of like hackworth. Hackworth was more opposed to the way we were fighting
[00:03:42] in Vietnam than he was opposed to the actual war itself. And he complained as early. This is Kippling
[00:03:50] complain as early as October of 1914 that Germany should have been defeated by now.
[00:03:56] And something must be wrong with the British Army. Kippling was shocked by the heavy losses
[00:04:02] that the British Expeditionary Force had taken by the autumn of 1914 and blamed the entire pre-war
[00:04:09] generation of British politicians who he had argued failed to learn the lessons of the Boer War
[00:04:18] and as a result thousands and thousands of British soldiers were paying with their lives
[00:04:24] for failures in the fields. And so there's some definite complexities to Kippling and it
[00:04:35] actually goes a little bit further and deeper with these complexities and there's a reason I
[00:04:40] started off with that poem. And that poem it is pretty much attributed that the idea of that poem
[00:04:54] which is obviously about marching long distances and it's attributed to a series of forced
[00:05:00] marches that were led by in the Boer War which were led by field martial lord Frederick Roberts who
[00:05:10] led 60,000 men on forced marches during the second Boer War in South Africa. He led these forced
[00:05:17] marches that were almost a thousand miles, nine hundred and fifty miles from Cape Down to Transvaul.
[00:05:24] And so that's kind of where this this poem comes from about how madening it is to march
[00:05:29] and how hard it is. But the interesting the other interesting piece of this is that Lord
[00:05:36] Robert, Lord Roberts who led this march was actually personal friends with Kippling. They were
[00:05:43] close friends and Lord Roberts was commander and chief of the army during World War I.
[00:05:53] And at Kippling's request at Rutt your Kippling's request, Lord Roberts allowed Kippling's son
[00:06:07] to be admitted to join the Irish guard he had some kind of a health problem. And so Kippling
[00:06:13] rid your Kippling called him up and said, hey my son's got a little health issue but he needs to
[00:06:17] get in the game. And Lord Roberts worked it out, you know commander and chief of the army and got him
[00:06:24] him admitted to the Irish guard. It was actually his eyesight he had poor eyesight. And so the
[00:06:34] the horrible piece I guess of that is that as I've mentioned the first time
[00:06:38] we read a Kippling poem on here is that read your Kippling son John Kippling was killed
[00:06:49] at September of 1915 the battle allus were the British suffered 60,000 casualties
[00:06:58] in three weeks of fighting 60,000 casualties. His body was never identified and he is one of the
[00:07:10] 20,000 British dead that are corrupt commemorated by the loose memorial. And while his body was never
[00:07:20] found there were accounts that he was last seen, the slogging through the mud blindly after a
[00:07:32] violent shell explosion had ripped off his face. And there's further connections and one of the lines
[00:07:45] in the poem is that there's no discharge in the war. And this is actually from the Bible.
[00:07:52] The Kleezy Astys 8-8 says there is no man that half power over the spirit to retain the spirit.
[00:08:01] Neither half he power in the day of death and there is no discharge in that war.
[00:08:07] So what he's saying there is no man half powers to power over the spirit to retain spirit. Meaning
[00:08:16] you can't keep your soul. When it's time for your soul to go you can't keep it.
[00:08:22] And then neither half he power over the day of death. Obviously you have no power to overcome death
[00:08:28] and there is no discharge in that war. And that is that this ultimate struggle between life and death
[00:08:40] that war that we fight for life itself. There's no escape. You can't get out of it.
[00:08:47] There is no discharge from that war. And maybe a little heavy way to start the podcast.
[00:09:01] But that poem also has a special meaning to a certain group of people in the navy and those of you
[00:09:06] that know what I'm talking about there. You know what I'm talking about there. And it's a poem
[00:09:13] that I thought of often in my career, especially when I strapped on my gear and heived on an
[00:09:22] overloaded rucksack for a long patrol or march. And when you do that,
[00:09:29] any soldier or military man will tell you this that when you do that, that is one of the most
[00:09:36] demanding parts of the job, the rock march, the long patrol, the hump, little walk,
[00:09:46] the forced road march. And even though you're with a group of people when you do that,
[00:09:54] when you're marching, you're very much alone. You're alone with your thoughts and there's
[00:10:02] things that you got to think about. You got to think about your field of fire. You got to think
[00:10:06] about your navigation. You got to think about rally points. You got to think about headcount. You got
[00:10:10] to think about terrain feature. You got to think about the enemy and booby traps and Idees and all that stuff.
[00:10:16] But even with that, there's still a lot of empty space to fill up inside your head. And I recently
[00:10:27] took my kids out on patrol. And I guess to be grammatically correct, it was a hike in the civilian
[00:10:39] world. But in my mind, it was a patrol. It felt like a patrol. And you know, it's the same thing.
[00:10:49] I mean, it's actually you're moving from point A to point B. You set security when you get there.
[00:10:54] You set your layout point, which civilians call like a campsite. Then you sleep and then you wake up
[00:11:00] and then you do it again. And as I did that patrol, and since it had been a while since I had
[00:11:06] done a patrol and because I was also watching my kids on their first patrol, I got to kind of revisit
[00:11:14] my little relationship that I have with patrolling over the years. And also as I saw them suffer and
[00:11:27] learn through their first patrol. I got to think into everything that I learned over the years
[00:11:36] from patrolling. And in doing that, I realized how much patrolling had taught me. So I'm there
[00:11:46] walking and I'm thinking about all these things that I learned because again, when you're
[00:11:50] patrolling, you got time. Even if you're thinking about navigation, you're thinking about all these things.
[00:11:54] It doesn't matter, even every piece of the job that you're focused on, it doesn't matter
[00:11:59] it's still space to fill. And that's what happened. You know, your mind starts to think about
[00:12:02] all these things. And it dawned on me how much patrolling and marching had taught me. And how it's
[00:12:12] really a fundamental component in everything that I did in the SEAL teams and the military.
[00:12:19] And like leadership, there are some fundamental principles that apply universally to so many
[00:12:24] things in life. And also just like leadership, there's a certain aspect of patrolling and navigation
[00:12:33] that is as much art as it is science. And the science, of course, is relatively easy to teach,
[00:12:42] but the art, as always, the art is hard to teach. And finally, with this this idea of navigation
[00:12:52] of moving from point A to point B, which includes plotting a course and picking way points along
[00:12:58] the way and identifying and avoiding obstacles and route and how to overcome unexpected obstacles
[00:13:05] and how and when and where to rest and everything else that navigation and patrolling includes
[00:13:10] and all those things are things that you face as you navigate life. And as you set goals as you
[00:13:22] establish where you're going. So I wanted to take a closer look at
[00:13:30] land navigation and how it relates to leadership and life and in digging in, I looked at,
[00:13:40] I looked at some of the information out there, some of the field manuals. And
[00:13:45] it's, it's, I learned from people, right? And I didn't learn from a book. And as I went to
[00:13:56] the books, I was coping that I could find what I had learned from people, but but I didn't really
[00:14:01] find it. I found pieces of it, glimpses of it, but nothing like what I was taught by the guys that
[00:14:09] raised me in the seal teams. And you know, I looked up the Army FM 3-Tect25.26 map reading and land navigation.
[00:14:19] And it's a thorough document and it's very heavy on the scientific side, the actual technical
[00:14:27] skill of it, how to set declination in a compass and how to orient the map and what the contour
[00:14:32] line, all the basic tools are in there. And there's some good quotes. One of the quotes it said,
[00:14:36] today the complexities of tactical operations and deployment of troops are such that it is essential
[00:14:43] for all soldiers to be able to read and interpret their maps in order to move quickly and effectively
[00:14:48] on the battlefield. Okay, I can't argue with that. You got to know where you are and if you ever
[00:14:52] heard me say this, I always used to ask the young, the young seal officers, what's the most important
[00:15:00] piece of information you need on the battlefield. And they would say, where the bad guys are,
[00:15:05] or how many guys you have, or how many enemy there are, or anything like that. They'd have a
[00:15:09] bunch of different ideas. And I would say, no, no, no, no, no. The most important piece of information
[00:15:14] you can have on the battlefield is where you are. You got to know where you are. Otherwise nothing
[00:15:20] else matters. And then I looked at a book called The Last Hundred Yards, which we actually covered
[00:15:27] on this podcast, podcast number three. And it goes through a section which is describing, it's
[00:15:34] talking about GPS and how now we've got GPS's and the GPS's can be unreliable and you can't
[00:15:42] count on them and all this stuff. And that's kind of true. It was even more true when that book
[00:15:46] came out, which was in 1995 and there was less satellites in the sky and the GPS received
[00:15:51] versus more and is good in the encryption methodology wasn't so dialed in yet. So the GPS is
[00:15:55] a were less accurate back then and they were also still pretty big. They were these big
[00:16:02] contraptions and even in 1993, 1994 the GPS is that I carried were big heavy things. Basically
[00:16:12] you had to assign a person to carry them. And now of course they're tiny. Everybody's got a GPS
[00:16:21] and you're on your iPhone or whatever smartphone you're using that or a thousand times better
[00:16:25] than the one I used to carry on my back. And they're also very accurate and reliable now in the
[00:16:32] military's come to rely heavily on them. Perhaps, perhaps a little too much. And I'm not going
[00:16:40] to be a guy that's like a stick in the mud that says hey don't evolve, don't learn anything
[00:16:45] because technology's awesome and you have to take advantage of it. But I also do think there's
[00:16:51] a need to remember the old ways. And I remember when GPS first came out and I was coming into the
[00:17:01] seal team and I had this thing. And I remember this, this officers, this officers, particularly
[00:17:06] said to me you know, hey all I need to do is we need to do is carry this thing and you know we'll
[00:17:12] know exactly where we are at all times. And he hands me this you know 20 pound brick but big box
[00:17:19] thing. And I kind of said hey man all I need to do is carry this map and compass and I'll know exactly
[00:17:25] where I am at all times. It's called land navigation. I want to learn it. But nowadays the GPS is
[00:17:34] our awesome and we definitely rely heavily on them. But it is, it is piece of the last hundred yards
[00:17:41] that definitely emphasizes that you have to know how to land now, which is good. But like I said,
[00:17:49] when I look through these books none of them gave me the same clear level of instruction that I learned
[00:17:56] about land navigation at patrolling when I first got into the teams back in the day. And again,
[00:18:07] these instructions and this methodology and some of these basic principles of patrolling and land
[00:18:12] nav they stuck with me and are really fundamental building blocks of how I ended up doing everything that I do.
[00:18:21] And they're really the basis of the attitude that I had that was very beneficial in leading
[00:18:31] me to having success in other areas, which was awesome. And so again here I am and taking my kids
[00:18:39] on their first patrol that made me realize this so clearly. And as I was thinking about it,
[00:18:44] I was like, I'm going to talk about this on the podcast. Because these are lessons that I learned
[00:18:49] that I actually forgot that I learned. You know what I mean? These are lessons that are so embedded
[00:18:55] that I forgot that I thought about them. But I think about them all the time. And then I'm seeing
[00:18:58] my kids do this. I'm thinking, oh yeah, they're there. They're learning this right now for the first
[00:19:04] time. And so to go through some of those things, some of those principles, the first one is planning.
[00:19:15] And you know, we, this gets, of course everyone knows you got to come up with a plan.
[00:19:20] But do in a detailed map study and identifying the obstacles that you're going to have to get around.
[00:19:27] And there's a couple different methods that you can use for land navigation. One of them is called
[00:19:32] dead reckoning. And dead reckoning means you get a compass bearing. From point A to point B is,
[00:19:37] you know, you're going to be traveling on 270 degrees. So you put your compass on 270 degrees
[00:19:42] and you march. You go straight line. Don't let anything take you off that line. Head down and go.
[00:19:48] And that's called dead reckoning. And that's obviously can be very problematic. Because if in
[00:19:54] between you and where you're going is a giant mountain or you know, a bunch of rivers or whatever
[00:19:58] you're going to have to go through all those things and you're going to get worn out, you're
[00:20:02] tired, you might be not tactically advisable to go through those areas. And so the better form
[00:20:10] is called terrain Nav or terrain association. And when you're doing that, you actually look at
[00:20:16] the map and you study what the ground is going to do. And so if there's a big mountain, you can
[00:20:22] screw around the bottom of the mountain and you get to the side of the mountain and there's a
[00:20:26] ravine that's you can follow that ravine around till you get to a certain point on the ravine where
[00:20:30] it cuts far to the north and you can you can head any other direction towards your turn. So it's
[00:20:35] this, it's a method of really knowing the terrain that you're going to be on. And it's infinitely
[00:20:41] more effective than dead reckoning. So if you think about this from my perspective over you have
[00:20:46] a mission that you're trying to get done. Well, how are you going to get there? You know, how
[00:20:50] are you going to get this mission done? Are you going to just put your head down and absorb any
[00:20:57] impact that you take and apply more pressure? Or are you going to be smart? Are you going to study
[00:21:02] the terrain and take a look and figure out the best way around those obstacles?
[00:21:11] Those dead reckoning and terrain association, the terrain association, you don't like, let's
[00:21:19] say go around the mountain and then try to get back on the dead reckoning course. You're just using
[00:21:23] the terrain. Your brain is the terrain level. You'll know when you do your map study,
[00:21:28] you'll know that you're going to go skirt around this mountain. You're going to go down a
[00:21:32] ravine, then you're going to cut over by this open field. You're going to hold along the wood
[00:21:36] lines. When you get to the end of the wood line, there's going to be a fence. You're going to
[00:21:41] step over that fence once you get to the fence. You're going to follow the fence for, you know,
[00:21:45] until you hit another big terrain feature like another hill. Then you're going to follow the
[00:21:53] base of that hill until you get to a stream. You're going to know exactly where you're going the
[00:21:58] whole time. You're going to imagine how much more effective this is. You don't have to look at
[00:22:02] your compass. You are taking advantage. You're going to patrol in areas where you have a tactical
[00:22:07] advantage too. It's just a much, much better way to do things. A lot of times I think people
[00:22:13] know they hear the big, the big Navy seal. Like, oh, we're just going to get it done.
[00:22:21] Yes, they just stay on the course, right? Well, staying on the course means I'm going to reach my
[00:22:26] objective. It doesn't mean I'm going to power my head into the wall without thinking. So
[00:22:33] that's what terrain features do for you. And there's also some terrain features that are
[00:22:39] interesting. You can use reference points that keep you from going too far. So you can know,
[00:22:46] hey, if we hit this main highway, we went too far. We know we missed our target. We missed our turn.
[00:22:51] If we hit this river, we know we went too far. If we hit this ridge line, we know we hit
[00:22:55] too far. So you're going to set those up for you. And they're going to confirm where you are
[00:23:01] and also you're going to use those as reference points. So you're going to tell your whole team.
[00:23:04] So your whole team is going to know, hey, we made it this far. Oh, there's the big river that
[00:23:11] we're turning left at. Okay, we turned left. That's awesome. Next, we're going to hit is a wood bind.
[00:23:16] Oh, here's the wood bind. So everybody knows. And so imagine if you're, again, think about this
[00:23:23] outside the, the parameters of land navigation and patrolling. Think of it in a regular business
[00:23:28] or any situation when you're trying to get a team to do something. If you lay out the course
[00:23:32] for them and you plot out what the obstacles are and you explain to people where they're going to be
[00:23:36] and how, how important it is that they need to get there and what we need to be looking out for.
[00:23:41] Imagine how the team feels. The team knows where they are. They understand where they are.
[00:23:46] When you're doing dead reckoning, the back of the, the guys in the back, they have no idea where
[00:23:50] they are. I've been that guy. I've been that guy in the back of the of a patrol and you just have
[00:23:54] no idea where you are. You have no idea how much further to go. You just got your head down.
[00:23:58] You're, you're slugging along with your weight and it's a nightmare. Whereas I've been on good
[00:24:03] patrols when I'm in the back, but we got a really good brief and I'm like, oh, there's that mountain.
[00:24:07] Oh, there's that ravine. Okay, where should be coming at that stream soon? Oh, yes, we're at the
[00:24:11] stream. So you know where you are and when you provide your team with that kind of clarity
[00:24:15] on the course that you're planning to take, it's going to make them so much more aware of what's
[00:24:20] happening and the more aware they are of what's happening. The better performance you're going to get from them.
[00:24:24] Yeah. The other thing is as you're doing this, you do something called a pace count, which is
[00:24:32] your as you walk, you know how many paces it takes you to get 100 yards. And there's some
[00:24:38] Kentucky windages there as a walk when we're going uphill or downhill, you can, you can work
[00:24:42] out these different, but you can get pretty accurate. So you can know that, hey, when I take
[00:24:47] left, when my left foot hits the ground, on average, when I'm wearing a hundred pounds,
[00:24:50] it's 86 paces from the average one hundred yards. So that's, that's, you'll know that. And so
[00:24:56] then what you're doing is you're constantly checking, it gives you another, it gives you another
[00:25:01] reference point because if we're supposed to hit, you know, a stream in 300 yards and I know we've
[00:25:10] marked 600 yards, something happened, time for me to stop. In fact, at 400 yards, I'm probably
[00:25:15] going to stop and say, okay, let's do a quick map study. So you want to double check these things
[00:25:19] in a business world. This could be some kind of a timeline that you set up. So you're like, hey,
[00:25:23] at, you know, 42 days, we should be here on this project. Oh, we're not there yet. Okay,
[00:25:29] what's the problem? What did we miss? Why aren't we getting it done? So that gives you two sort of
[00:25:36] methodologies to confirm where you are, so you can triangulate your position, which is smart.
[00:25:41] Wait, when you call it Kentucky what? Kentucky windage. What does that mean? It's like the
[00:25:46] give or take? It's, you know, it's just, it comes from shooting. Okay, and you would normally
[00:25:52] dial in your site to get you specifically. Let's say you, you think 600 meters, but then there's a
[00:25:58] strong wind blowing. So maybe you're going to hold off to the left of the windy and Kentucky or something.
[00:26:04] I think it's just shooting. The, the, maybe the shooters in Kentucky had a, they made it. They
[00:26:10] were real accurate. So they had a whole little Kentucky wind got a commentate for that. Yeah, got you.
[00:26:15] Chicago windage. No. No. Well, because it's kind of windy, you know, so yeah, I see you're
[00:26:21] coming from, but no. It's, it's, it's Kentucky windage. It's my brozinho. Pretty dope. So,
[00:26:30] like I said in life, plan, study the route that you're going to go, think about the obstacles,
[00:26:35] how are you going to avoid them, what do your goals look like, what do your smaller goals look like,
[00:26:40] along the way, the little reference points. So you got some of you signs of the big project.
[00:26:44] Okay, what are the little things? Or you got something in your life that you're trying to accomplish?
[00:26:48] What are the little goals you're going to set for yourself to you and get to keep a reference point
[00:26:51] along the way? And what's the timeline you're going to meet those on? Yep. That's how you stay on track.
[00:26:57] And you know what, we actually did. We did something called pace notes. And what pace notes were,
[00:27:03] and I learned it for, for foot patrols. And we ended up using it even more when it came to vehicle
[00:27:11] patrols. And I realized that, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago or something, we started sending
[00:27:16] guys to a rally driving school. So I could learn how to drive rally racing cars. And that's,
[00:27:23] that's been the way they always done pace notes in rally racing. So you, so what's cool about it is
[00:27:28] when you do pace notes, you're writing down specifically, this is the terrain feature,
[00:27:32] this is what I'm seeing, this is how far away it is. This is the next terrain feature,
[00:27:35] this is what I'm going to see, this is how far away it is. So you can actually track that. Now,
[00:27:39] we got so detailed with that on vehicle mount patrols. We would actually just take the map and
[00:27:46] blow the map up so we'd see exactly what it looked like at that intersection or at that juncture or
[00:27:52] at that city block so we could see what the buildings look like so we'd be looking for it.
[00:27:57] So that's pace notes and it, and it, it's almost like a rehearsal, you know, it's almost like a rehearsal
[00:28:01] because you can, you can walk the whole team through and they can get a visualization of what
[00:28:06] they're going to see and how it's going to look. And the other, the other piece is that I said,
[00:28:12] is you've got to share that plan and explain it to everybody so every time the same sheet.
[00:28:16] And, and I did this, what I explained to my kids, you know what I said, okay, here's what we're going
[00:28:21] to see. We're at this area here. We're going to go across some flat ground. We're going to start
[00:28:24] hitting some little terrain features here. It's going to go up and down and up and down. That's
[00:28:27] going to tell us that we're here. And, not only does it help them, no, it's going on, but now I'm talking
[00:28:33] through it. And that helps me because it helps to teach things because when you teach something,
[00:28:37] you become more proficient at it. That's one of the good things about teaching anything. You know,
[00:28:42] you want to get better at something, teach people how to do it. It makes you better. You want to teach
[00:28:46] that arm lock or you want to get better at the arm lock, teach the arm lock, you'll notice all kinds
[00:28:49] little details about it. But it's so hard to teach. Like if you're not used to teaching,
[00:28:53] you should jump in there and teach because you're just used to doing it. And a lot of that stuff
[00:28:56] you just do without thinking about, okay, what exactly am I doing in this detail? You just do it.
[00:29:00] Let me, you know, muscle memory. And like, this is all these little factors that facilitate you
[00:29:05] doing something that you don't even think about. And then try to teach you, you're like, oh, you kind of
[00:29:09] do this. Wait, wait, whoa, whoa, you know, you didn't even know what you're saying. You know,
[00:29:13] Greg Train always throws out little details. Like, oh, that's a good little right. Yeah. That I,
[00:29:17] and he has something that I do, but once he points it out or teaches it, he'll be teaching
[00:29:21] something basic that I know and I'm good at. Yeah. And he'll say, oh, yeah, I did. I put my foot on the
[00:29:27] hip here to stabilize this and I go, oh, I do that. But when you start thinking about it and you
[00:29:31] focus on it, it makes you that much better at it. And that's the same thing that's going to happen
[00:29:37] here. When you actually brief your team and tell them exactly what to expect. Now again, this doesn't
[00:29:42] mean that you're going to say, hey, this is what exactly how it's going to go because you got to
[00:29:45] give the caveat that, hey, this is our plan. I worried about how to deviate from this plan. And that's
[00:29:49] okay. We're ready to do that. We're adaptive. Yeah. But when you talk through it, it helps you and it helps them.
[00:29:55] Yeah. That's funny. Greg Train is a reason I ran into use like he's teaching whatever and then he
[00:30:02] just all of a sudden bus out. Hey, I'll teach him that move that you do. Now, it was pretty good at that
[00:30:06] move. I started teaching. It's like, it's like, it's a guard pass that I do sometime. And
[00:30:12] Brian, teaching, I don't even know what I'm talking about. I'm like doing it all good, but
[00:30:15] and everyone's like, oh, all right, you know, I'm a poor teacher. Well, that's something you can
[00:30:21] work on, I guess, starting now, take over the podcast. I'm more comfortable avoiding it.
[00:30:28] Awesome. Now, now the next piece that I was thinking about on patrolling and that I saw my kids go
[00:30:36] through and that I went through as a young seal is you start questioning or you start going through
[00:30:42] this process. If what do I need to bring with me? What do I actually need to bring with me? Now,
[00:30:49] when you don't have to carry it, when you don't know what it means to carry it. Carry it. When I say
[00:30:55] carry, I mean, put it on your back and bear the weight of that item. When you don't have to do that,
[00:31:01] you want to carry everything. Yeah. I'll just carry everything, the warm sleeping bag and the
[00:31:05] whisper light stove and the extra food and the comfort gear and all this stuff. That's what you do
[00:31:11] when you when you don't have to carry it, oh, you don't think about carrying it or you don't know what
[00:31:14] it feels like to carry it. But when you have to carry it, you get down to what you need real quick.
[00:31:22] To what you actually need real quick, totally limited on the food. You're not going to be. I never,
[00:31:31] I never heated a meal in the field. Unless it was like snow on the ground, a winter warfair scenario,
[00:31:38] never heated a meal in the ground. If it was never, never heated a meal because that means you had to
[00:31:45] bring a fuel and a whisper light and all this stuff. And I never, I was a radioman. So I had to already carry a
[00:31:51] radio and then I got used to that. So by the time I was an officer and I wasn't carrying a radio anymore,
[00:31:56] I said, I'm just going to be lighter than everybody else. Yeah. Comfort gear? No, we won't take that.
[00:32:05] And you need to get it. You need to bring enough comfort gear that you can actually sleep and survive.
[00:32:11] I mean, you need to bring a ground pattern, whatever. But we used to say,
[00:32:17] little saying, let's travel light, freeze it night. That was my saying for sure, travel
[00:32:21] life, freeze it night. And I'll tell you, I got my indoctrination to freezing at night and
[00:32:29] traveling light when I first checked into the team. I went to a comm school, communication school,
[00:32:36] a seal communications school. So you're going to be blown out of the radio in this yield teams.
[00:32:41] And I had this, this old chief that was running the, uh, running the, running the training.
[00:32:48] And I was a fired up new guy. I didn't even have my tried it. So I was just brand new guy.
[00:32:52] Didn't even have my try knows at the team and they sent me to this school. And so this chief and I
[00:32:56] actually went with another new guy, who's, who's a great guy. And we went out there,
[00:33:01] told them, you guys, neither one of us had our try. It's we had graduated from Buds a couple months ago,
[00:33:05] or from airborne school, whatever. So we showed up at the winter time. And we show up in, and the
[00:33:10] end of this school, you go through a field training exercise. And it's, I want to say it's five days in
[00:33:18] the field. It's like Monday through Friday in the field or something along those lines.
[00:33:22] And you are basically doing the reconnaissance mission. And they give you really good targets to look at.
[00:33:28] And you're going to look at, and you're going to report back with all this information. And then you're
[00:33:31] going to move, they're going to move you every couple hours. They give you directions to a new point to move to.
[00:33:37] So we're doing, we're, we're getting ready for this FTX. And I'd never spent much time in the field.
[00:33:43] And the guy that's running the course, you know, he's having fun with the new guy. And he's like, hey,
[00:33:48] well, Link. And I said, yes, chief, and he goes, you know what, you think you're hard to
[00:33:52] call him? I go, I'm trying to be hard, core. And he says, if you're really hard to call, you don't need
[00:33:57] a punch. You don't need a sleeping bag or a ground pad. You just go out there with a punch.
[00:34:02] I want a punch, a lighter. And I was like, okay, no problem. So sure enough, I go in the field of the
[00:34:10] punch, I want a punch, a lighter. And actually, actually, it was a bivisac, which is a Gore text. It's
[00:34:17] like a Gore text sleeping bag, just a thin Gore text shell. And a punch, a liner, which is something that's
[00:34:23] been around forever. And it's just a very thin, thin, like basically blanket. No, it's not even
[00:34:30] 10. It's like a blanket. It's like a blanket. That's what it is. It's a liner. It's a very thin,
[00:34:34] it's yes, it's a very thin liner. It's what is the punch, a liner. And so I had those
[00:34:40] and the two things I had with me. And my buddy took the same. So we were like, oh, oh, that you
[00:34:47] need to be like, that's a hard core. Go, I'm hard core. How cold was it? Like, so we are going into
[00:34:53] the field. We're inserting in the field. And the sun is going like we inserted right at dusk,
[00:34:58] as we're inserting in the field, it's raining. Right as we get on the ground, it turns to sleep.
[00:35:04] And then two hours into the night, it turns into snow. So we freeze. I mean, we freeze. We're just,
[00:35:15] we can't sleep. And the funny thing was was that we couldn't sleep. We literally couldn't sleep.
[00:35:21] It was too cold for us to sleep. And the guy had set it up. So you had to make a communications.
[00:35:26] When you had to make communications, it was about every three or four hours. And so,
[00:35:32] and if you missed a communications window, if you missed it, that was, you know, you got,
[00:35:36] you grade went down or whatever you got points subtracted. So all the other guys who were
[00:35:42] experienced seals that knew how to live out in the field better than we did, they all were super comfortable.
[00:35:48] They all went out there and had sleeping bags, ground pads, and all that. And they slept through
[00:35:53] their com windows. At least some of them, they didn't sleep through all of them. Obviously, but occasionally
[00:35:56] it's sleep, they went after four days, three days, whatever. And so we were the only pair that made
[00:36:02] all of our com windows because we couldn't. Right? Good. You know, yeah, we'd just be standing up,
[00:36:08] just standing up, standing by a tree, doing burpees. Just trying to, trying to survive. Yeah.
[00:36:14] So that was, that was one of the lessons on learning how to travel light freezing night.
[00:36:20] That was a little too much. I should, the thing I needed was a ground pad.
[00:36:24] Do you need a ground pad when you go in the field? So travel light freezing night is kind of like a warning
[00:36:29] or is that like, no, it's a deal. That's what you do. Oh, yeah. It was my methodology and it's a methodology of
[00:36:36] a portion of guys in the military that are, that are on the, it would rather be on the hard side.
[00:36:43] Right. So I'm going to also all freeze at night so I can travel light freezing night.
[00:36:47] You're going to be more effective when you're, when you're lighter. Yeah.
[00:36:50] I mean, of course, if you're exhausted, that's why that's why there's got to be a balance there.
[00:36:54] We should have brought ground pads on that operation to that training operation for sure.
[00:36:59] Yeah. Because we're going to freeze. And like we got trench foot legit and the guy that was with me
[00:37:05] had legit trench foot when he got out. Like what is that like front bike? No, it's when your feet
[00:37:09] because this part of this, part of this training operation took place in, in like a swamp.
[00:37:14] Oh, dang. So it's freezing in the swamp and he got legit World War One style trench foot.
[00:37:21] I had it too. My not as bad as him. But what is that? It's just your feet get numb and
[00:37:26] rodded and jacked up. Yeah. Good times. So, so again, how do we apply this to life? And I think
[00:37:36] if you, if you look at what you want versus what you actually need. And imagine if you had to
[00:37:45] carry everything that you owned. Now, of course, that's not possible. But I think this is this whole
[00:37:53] like minimalist attitude that's that's kind of getting popular right now that it's getting popular
[00:37:59] in civilian world right now. But in the military, we've always valued that and that's one of the
[00:38:03] cool things about going away on deployment. For me, I always love this feeling when you went away
[00:38:10] on deployment. You could only take, and we as Seals took a lot of gear with us, but there's a limit.
[00:38:16] You took, you know, five or six kit bags, you know, five or six big, duffel bags basically
[00:38:22] filled with gear. And that's it. That's it. That's all your gear. That's all the gear you have. And so,
[00:38:27] honestly, to me, that that always felt good. That is what I got. This is everything I have. And,
[00:38:33] you know, as a young seal, that was basically you could fit all your gear in those six bags. And
[00:38:38] then everything you own in the civilian world, you could fit in two more bags. And we live that,
[00:38:42] like I live like that with my buddies back in the day. We live like that for a long time. Oh,
[00:38:46] you, we can go to the point tomorrow. We can just put all of our stuff at home and get back. We can
[00:38:50] blow our stuff up a week. We ready to go. Yeah. Kind of like we're the military guys. You're kind of like
[00:38:56] the OG minimalist. Yeah. Back in the day. It's good. And we've got to teach Sarah this stuff. Yeah,
[00:39:03] well, people start to hold on to stuff. Especially the part where if, or when you carry it,
[00:39:08] you realize how much stuff, you know, that part where you're talking about, once you know the weight
[00:39:12] of your own stuff, you think twice before. Yeah, yeah. And it's really, really, it starts thinking about
[00:39:17] the cost of that gear. And what does that mean over time? And how much of usage are you going to
[00:39:21] get out of it? Now, the thing that I hang on to, there's a couple of things that I'm a little bit of a
[00:39:25] hoarder on. One of these T-shirts. Yeah, I'm not mad at them. Now, some people might be thinking,
[00:39:32] hey, Jocco, you wear the same freaking T-shirts. They're saying they which is true. Yeah. But I have,
[00:39:38] you know, old T-shirts that are just, I just, I just, I, because I wear my T-shirts a lot when I
[00:39:45] wear them. It's hard for me to part with them. Brad, better than that than shoot. You're like the, I have, I have,
[00:39:51] I have a ton of old Jiu Jitsu T-shirts. Yeah. When I used to go to schools, I used to travel
[00:39:55] in a school. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd give me a T-shirt. Yeah. And I have all these old school
[00:39:59] T-shirts of schools that don't even exist or of schools that got really big or whatever,
[00:40:03] or just competitions that I did, you know, and you got those school T-shirts. Yeah. And I'm not,
[00:40:07] I don't wear them anymore, but I can't. I was thinking, you know what I could do is inventory them,
[00:40:12] take pictures of them, and put them on the inner webs, and then throw them away.
[00:40:16] Wouldn't be, oh, like, like, like an archive. Yeah. Yeah. Because because there's some,
[00:40:20] it triggers memories that are, yeah. Yeah. It's like memory, be-lea. Yeah. It's basically smart cards.
[00:40:24] Because you like to, it triggers the memory of those times of that event, or whatever.
[00:40:30] Because otherwise you're not thinking about it. And there's a problem with that. I'll tell you,
[00:40:33] I realize this from my experience growing up, you know, I grew up in New England, and I don't
[00:40:39] go home, didn't go home at all. They hardly ever go back to the town where I grew up.
[00:40:44] Mm-hmm. And the people that I know that are still there, they remember all this stuff.
[00:40:48] From when we were kids, they remember this event. That remember when this happened,
[00:40:52] and I honestly don't remember. I just don't remember it. Yeah.
[00:40:57] And I think the reason is because I went away from there, and I never went back,
[00:41:02] and so I have nothing triggering those members. I don't see the school yard where the fight happened.
[00:41:07] And I don't see the road where the car flipped. I don't see that stuff.
[00:41:11] And so I don't remember it like they do. They're there all the time. Oh yeah, I remember when
[00:41:16] Little Johnny gave, you know, you know, it's like no, I actually don't remember that.
[00:41:20] So with some of this memory of Bilias, as you called it,
[00:41:24] if every time I look at it, I go, oh yeah, that was cool. Turned it. Well, that was cool.
[00:41:28] Training with those guys or whatever. So I have a bunch of just two teachers that I have an
[00:41:32] artifact getting apart. That's how. Partly, right. Yeah. I was taking them to the gym and framing them
[00:41:38] and hanging them up. You're a ghost. No, not you're a ghost. No, not you're a ghost. But they're
[00:41:42] old school teachers. They'd be cool to have those old students. And if you if you got my
[00:41:46] teacher, it's being T-shirts, Jeff and Glovers T-shirts and put them up there. That means sick.
[00:41:50] Yeah. Or you're on the other side of the poster. Remember best of the West? Remember that turn
[00:41:53] a bit. Yeah. That was a good one. It's just gone. Yeah. So that's it. You go through this checklist back
[00:42:04] to the subject here. You go through this checklist of what you actually need. And again, when you're
[00:42:08] when you're in a business, you've got to look at what you what what do you need to complete this
[00:42:11] operation? What do you just want? Because it'd be nice to have and separate those things, separate
[00:42:17] those things. You can actually put them in those categories. You know, need want nice to have,
[00:42:23] right? And then you go through. Okay. Let's let's concentrate on what we need first. And then we can see
[00:42:28] if there's anything that we want. And then by the way, if there's a nice to have, we can throw in
[00:42:31] their okay. Fine. But to go in there and just buy everything on that list or command everything on that
[00:42:38] list, because you think you're going to need it? No wrong answer. Well, move. Yeah. And a lot of times
[00:42:42] people and of course, I'm not talking about maybe it or it does apply to business, but just in life
[00:42:48] what you need and what you want. You know, a lot of times what you want doesn't even facilitate
[00:42:54] what you need. You know, like you'd be like, oh, hey, I don't need faster internet, but I kind of
[00:42:59] want it. But the faster internet is going to facilitate my work. Well, let's say you do, you know,
[00:43:03] you need to do it. At least that's something sometimes people will get stuff that they want.
[00:43:10] That's just straight up no function. Yeah. Oh, yeah. For sure. Not my family.
[00:43:15] I know. I don't like things about function. I know. Like them. Don't like them. Um, okay. So,
[00:43:26] so again, back to this, once you've decided on what you're going to bring or what you're going to
[00:43:31] need, then time to start the operation. It's time to start this movement. And even when the
[00:43:37] start, you got to check confirm where you are, make sure you know, then you get started. And I had this
[00:43:42] first reminder when I did this little patrol with my kids because I just and I were going to go.
[00:43:46] It's a little trail. It's start walking. We started walking. I didn't keep a pace count.
[00:43:51] That's ridiculous. That's embarrassing to admit. Didn't keep a pace count. I know
[00:43:54] wasn't really paying attention. We were just kind of talking and having, yeah, we're just talking
[00:44:01] and moving and kind of getting used to it all and hey, how's your backpack feeling, all that stuff?
[00:44:05] And I'll also know, I go wait a second. Where are we? Where are we right now?
[00:44:11] Because I had told them that hey, we're going to be looking for the trail that goes up. And
[00:44:16] we talked through it. And we pulled out the map, and we started doing a little study. And my son was
[00:44:20] like immediately with, oh, we went too far. We missed it. I know what it's back there. And my daughter
[00:44:26] wouldn't commit either way. And I said, okay, let's do an assessment. And so we assessed and realized
[00:44:31] that we actually hadn't gone quite far enough. So we went a little bit further. But my point is that
[00:44:37] you got to check yourself. You got to check yourself and check your team consistently, not constantly.
[00:44:45] Right. That's micro management, but consistently. And you also have to watch out for target
[00:44:52] fixation, which is trying to go too fast. I go, you're just trying to get to that to the end
[00:44:57] point without going by your little waypoints along the way. That is a way to get yourself lost.
[00:45:03] Because you're driving and you're not looking for your reference points. And you'll lose the
[00:45:09] bubble. So you got to detach a little bit and stand back and pay attention and not be all crazy
[00:45:15] about that. You know, for you know, every 500 meters, maybe every, you do a quick check. Every
[00:45:22] thousand meters, you're going to do a little bit of more accurate study. And that's going to keep you
[00:45:31] and line. And if you are out of line, you're only going to be a little bit off track. You're not
[00:45:37] going to be 12 days of work or two hours of walking off track. Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Too
[00:45:45] especially going by all these reference points. The target fixation, you're just, you got one reference
[00:45:50] point. And it's probably not even that accurate because really just by the nature of the whole deal,
[00:45:54] the map, the one reference point that you do have is the furthest thing away. Literally.
[00:45:58] So you only have that one or for that. If you have all these other reference points, you get off track
[00:46:03] one step, two steps, three steps. You still got like a bunch of reference points. Just like,
[00:46:07] all right, let's backtrack all these reference points. You're good to do. There to support you.
[00:46:10] That's, that's how you do it. And that's again, that's when you're planning something with a team
[00:46:14] and a business. You got to have some reference points along the way. To help you get towards your goal.
[00:46:19] Yeah. Because your goal is far off in the distance. So you got to plan about how you're going to get there.
[00:46:25] If you have a video or use photo shoppers, it has, this, when I first started, it has this history
[00:46:35] little box. So every movie, make it records it. That's pretty cool. Delete, delete, and then you
[00:46:39] have control at which is saved. But that's something else. But yeah, each one. So you can literally
[00:46:46] go, oh wait, it's reference point with every single move. That's awesome. So you can go up.
[00:46:50] Oh, let me go all the way back, you know, 25 moves to when I erase this little thing. Boop.
[00:46:56] Let me start from there. You know, you bring one thing back that's far up the chart. Yeah.
[00:47:01] Here's the only thing. It's like, but it's like a little, like a fork kind of. So like, let's say you go back
[00:47:05] in time essentially. You go back like five moves. And then you make a different move. It, that one
[00:47:11] discourse. Yeah, it's gone. That's why in time travel. Yeah, exactly. It's time to time travel.
[00:47:17] All right. So when you get out on patrol now, um, disciplines paramount. Sure.
[00:47:25] For instance, you got to stay hydrated. You got to keep track of your gear. You got to keep track of your
[00:47:29] pace count. You don't let your gear get out. You don't take out your gear. Like, oh, stop for seconds.
[00:47:34] I'm just going to pull everything out of my Bruxac and lay it all over the place. No, you got to keep it tight.
[00:47:40] You don't rush over obstacles. So for instance, oh, you know, there's a little log. And I got
[00:47:47] to see there's a log going across this trail. And I got to step over the log. Well, I step up on top of it.
[00:47:52] And then I'm just going to jump off because I, it's a little easier. No, you don't just jump off because
[00:47:56] that's how you spray your ankle. That's how you blow out an E, which is, you know, what you're playing
[00:48:00] a basketball game or you're on the Jiu-Jitsu mat and you twist your ankle. Cool. Walk to the side,
[00:48:07] put some ice on it. Your, you know, 10 kilometers out in the middle of nowhere and one of your
[00:48:16] kids spraying an ankle. You're in trouble. Yeah. You're in trouble. And if you're out on patrol
[00:48:23] in a military situation and you get somebody that gets spraying ankle, you're even more
[00:48:28] significant trouble. So you got to have the discipline to slow down, slow as moods, moods,
[00:48:35] fast, watch your footing, watch for danger. Watch your field of fire. Pay attention to the first
[00:48:40] person that's in front of you and the person that's behind you. And that's how you're doing
[00:48:47] your communication. So you gotta keep your communication up the whole time. So again, you can go
[00:48:50] right to any business, any project that anyone's working on. It's all the same thing. You gotta be disciplined.
[00:48:56] You gotta keep track of things. You gotta keep your communication going between your team
[00:49:01] members by passing whatever signals you gotta pass when you get to a layup point.
[00:49:08] When you're gonna actually stop and basically camp out, I hate saying that.
[00:49:12] Because in the in the in the in the sealed teams, it's derogatory to say,
[00:49:15] oh, right. It's kind of an upside. Yeah. Yeah. So you never want to have anybody say that.
[00:49:19] So I wouldn't let my when I won't control my kids. I was like, no, we're not camping. We're
[00:49:23] in a layup point. But so you guys are camping out. No, we're not. So this,
[00:49:28] well, when you get to a layup point where you're gonna stop, you don't just flop down and turn into
[00:49:35] a pile of crap. And this is true. Again, with a business situation, you reach one goal. You don't just
[00:49:42] like flop down and say, oh, we did it high five office party. No, you can you can order pizza,
[00:49:50] maybe, but you're not ordering booze. You know what I'm saying? You still got stuff to do. So you don't
[00:49:55] camp out. You have to remain tact or you have to remain disciplined. You have to quietly assume
[00:50:01] your security position. You got to then be quiet and make sure you are as alone as you think you are.
[00:50:07] Then you got to pick out some landmarks. Once you get to your little layup point,
[00:50:10] you got to you got to make that your home. You know, you got to look at for some landmarks or some
[00:50:16] somewhere where you know where you are. And then you confirm your position. You know, you take a
[00:50:21] triangulation with your compass, maybe even break out your GPS, get a little double confirmation.
[00:50:27] And then once you've got everything set, then you can take a little breather. But what you don't do is
[00:50:32] get to the finish line and just flop down and we made it. You never want to do that. And the other
[00:50:38] piece, this is something I found about a lot while I was on this patrol with my with my two kids.
[00:50:42] I went with two out of the four kids. When that we kind of have a standard in most militarys do this,
[00:50:50] you're going to when you're when you're doing a patrol, you're going to move for 50 minutes.
[00:50:54] You're going to walk for 50 minutes and you're going to rest for 10. Then you walk for 15,
[00:50:58] rest for 10. Walk for 15. That's kind of the standard. And I can tell you that if you aren't careful,
[00:51:06] it can be hard to start up again. And you get tired legs and you get sore shoulders and you get
[00:51:13] hunger and you get thirsty and it's easy to let 10 minutes turn into 15 minutes and turn into 20
[00:51:20] minutes and turn into a half an hour. That can happen very, very easily. And this is the thing you
[00:51:27] gotta remember. While you are resting, you are getting no closer to your target. There is no progress
[00:51:38] that is being made. And by the way, the only person that is going to move you toward that target is you.
[00:51:51] You're the only person that's going to move you towards that target. You're not going to get
[00:51:55] carried. The target's not going to move to you. You are the only person that's going to move to the
[00:51:59] target. And if you don't move, you'll never get there. And the faster you get there, the better off,
[00:52:04] you're going to be. Now again, this doesn't mean that you're simply grinding yourself and your
[00:52:09] team into the dirt. There are rest periods involved there. You have 10 minutes of rest. You have 50 minutes
[00:52:14] of work. So I'm not talking about smashing your team. But you absolutely do have to drive your team
[00:52:23] because there will be no progress in the comfort zone. There will not. In the inside the comfort zone,
[00:52:31] there's no progress happening. There's nothing happening. And when you're patrolling with a rucksack
[00:52:40] on, it is not comfortable. It's not comfortable. It's not comfortable. It's not easy. And that is one
[00:52:45] of the things. That's why this discipline of keeping moving and continuing to push the pace is so
[00:52:52] powerful. And that's the same thing with any goal. Obviously, the correlation here is that any goal that
[00:53:01] you're going for, you have to keep moving toward it. You have to stay on the path. Do you have to
[00:53:09] rest? Yes. But you have to go. You have to go down that path. And that is another one of these
[00:53:18] principles and all these principles. They really applied everything that I did in my
[00:53:25] seal career. Regardless of what I was doing. The same things, planning well, setting goals,
[00:53:31] knowing what they looked like, staying disciplined on everything on every type of mission, on every
[00:53:37] task, every job. That is what I always did. I didn't take it easy. Did I rest? Sure. Of course,
[00:53:46] I rested. But did I cut corners? Did I take the easy way? Did I slack off? No. No, I did not. I held the line.
[00:54:02] Now, from a leadership perspective, all this talk of marching and patrolling made me think of a
[00:54:15] short story called The Beloved Captain, which I was recently introduced to by the wife of one of
[00:54:25] the finest leaders I've ever worked for. A guy named General Sean McFarlane, who was the
[00:54:32] Colonel at the time who was commanding the one one AD. The first brigade in the first armored division
[00:54:38] otherwise known as the ready first during the Battle of Ramadi. And I recently saw General McFarlane's
[00:54:46] wife at a memorial event that we did for the 10 year anniversary of Mark Lee's death. She told me about
[00:54:58] this story. Again, it's called The Beloved Captain and it lays out some fundamental leadership
[00:55:06] principles. And when the General's wife told me that he kind of referred to this story himself
[00:55:14] for guidance, I figured maybe the kind of guidance we could all use. And the story is written by a
[00:55:23] guy named Donald Hanky, who served with the British Army in World War I, a volunteer who enlisted
[00:55:34] at age 29. Despite having served as an officer when he was younger, he enlisted to go fight
[00:55:44] and he eventually regained his commission. And in both as a enlisted guy as an and as an officer,
[00:55:53] he fought on the front lines. And he wrote this story, which is called as I said, the Beloved Captain.
[00:56:10] He came in the early days when we were still at recruit drills under hot September sun,
[00:56:16] tall, erect, smiling. So we first saw him and so he remained to the end. At the start,
[00:56:27] he knew as little of soldiering as we did. He used to watch us being drilled by the sergeant,
[00:56:32] but his manner of watching was peculiar to his own. He never looked bored. He was learning just as
[00:56:38] much as we were. In fact, more, he was learning his job. And from the first he saw that his job was
[00:56:46] more than to give us the correct orders. His job was to lead us. So he watched and noted many things
[00:56:56] and never found the time hang on heavy, heavy on his hands. He watched our evolutions so as to
[00:57:05] learn to learn the correct orders. He watched for the right manner of command, the manner which
[00:57:10] secured the most prompt response to an order. And he watched every one of us for our individual
[00:57:15] characteristics. We were his men. Already, he took an almost paternal interest in us. He noted the
[00:57:23] men who tried hard, but were naturally slow and awkward. He distinguished them from those who were
[00:57:30] inattentive and bored. He marked down the keen and most efficient among us. Most of all,
[00:57:36] he studied those who were subject to moods, who were sulky one day and willing the next.
[00:57:41] These were the ones who were to turn the scale. If he could get these on his side, the battle would
[00:57:50] be one. So here's this leader. Very important for him to learn about his men and know his men
[00:57:59] and study his men. We have heard this before. Back to the book. For the first few days, he just watched.
[00:58:09] Then he started work. He picked out some of the most awkward ones and a company by a corporal
[00:58:15] marched them away by themselves. In generously, he explained that he did not know much himself yet.
[00:58:21] But he thought that they might get on better if they drilled by themselves a bit and that if it
[00:58:27] helped them and they helped him, they would soon learn. So there's some serious humility going on there.
[00:58:34] He's like, hey, I don't know that much. You guys don't know that much. Let's help each other.
[00:58:38] Let's build a little team here. His confidence was infectious. He looked at them and they looked at
[00:58:44] him and the men pulled themselves together and determined to do their best. So he formed relationships here.
[00:58:55] Their best surprised themselves. His patience was inexhaustible. His simplicity could not fail to be
[00:59:04] understood. He's keeping them simple. So simple that they could not fail to be understood. His
[00:59:11] keenness and optimism carried all with them. Very soon, the awkward squad found themselves
[00:59:18] awkward no longer. And soon after that, they ceased to be a squad and went back to the platoon.
[00:59:24] Then he started to drill the platoon with a sergeant standing by to point out his mistakes. Of course,
[00:59:30] he made mistakes and when that happened, he never minded admitting it.
[00:59:37] Some extreme ownership going on. He would explain what mistakes he had made and try again.
[00:59:43] The result was that we began to take almost as much interest and pride in his progress as he did in
[00:59:50] ours. We were his men and he was our leader. We felt that he was a credit to us and we resolved to be a
[00:59:59] credit to him. There was a bond of mutual confidence and affection between us which grew stronger and
[01:00:06] stronger as the months passed. He had a smile for almost everyone but we thought he had a different
[01:00:13] smile for us. We looked for it and were never disappointed. On parade, as long as we were trying,
[01:00:21] his smile encouraged us. Off parade if we passed him and saluted, his eyes looked straight into our own
[01:00:27] and his smile greeted us. It was a wonderful thing that smile of his. It was something worth
[01:00:34] living for when worth working for. It bucked one up when one was bored or tired. It seemed to make one
[01:00:42] look at things from a different point of view, a finer point of view, his point of view. There was
[01:00:49] nothing feeble or weak about it. It was not monotonous like the smile of sunny gym. It meant something.
[01:00:59] It meant that we were his men and that he was proud of us and sure that we were going to do
[01:01:06] jolly well better than any of the other potuins and it made us determine that we would.
[01:01:12] When we failed him, when he was disappointed in us, he did not smile. He did not rage or curse.
[01:01:25] He just looked disappointed and that made us feel far more savage with ourselves than any amount of
[01:01:32] swearing would have done. Point we've talked about on here many times. That guy that's yelling and
[01:01:40] screaming, not getting respect. That has a lot to do. Probably everything to do. Also with remember
[01:01:49] who we were talking about, use the carrot nut to stick. That's basically on top of the bond or
[01:01:56] it could be a kind of the same thing. When they look for that approval, which we all do with our friends,
[01:02:02] especially, they're not looking to avoid him getting mad. They're looking to make them happy.
[01:02:09] Because of how that feels or how good that is. He doesn't have to get mad. He just has to
[01:02:15] basically go to zero. He doesn't have to go negative 10 on him. He goes to zero or one. They're like
[01:02:19] dang. I bet I'm going to get back to that 10. Yeah. And it's just great language. He just looked
[01:02:25] disappointed and that made us feel far more savage with ourselves than any amount of swearing would have
[01:02:32] done. And I had a boss like that one time. Our whole golden life was just to make him look good and
[01:02:42] have him say give us a smile and we're all fired up. Back to the book. He made us feel that we were
[01:02:51] not playing the game with him. This is if they messed up. He made us feel that we were not playing the
[01:02:55] game by him. It was not what he said. He was never very good at talking. It was just how he looked.
[01:03:04] And his look of displeasure and disappointment was a thing that we would do anything to avoid.
[01:03:10] The fact was that he had won his way into our affections. We loved him. And there isn't anything
[01:03:18] stronger than love when all said and done. He was humble too. If that is the right word and I think
[01:03:29] it is, no trouble of ours was too small for him to attend to. When we started root marches,
[01:03:37] for instance, and our feet were blistered and sore as they often were at first. You would have
[01:03:44] thought that they were his own feet from the trouble he took. Of course, after the march there
[01:03:50] was always an inspection of feet. That is routine. But with him, it was no mere routine. He came
[01:03:56] into our rooms and if anyone had a sore fit, foot, he would kneel down on the floor and look at it
[01:04:03] as carefully as if he had been a doctor. Then he would prescribe and the remedies were ready at hand
[01:04:10] being borne by the sergeant. If a blister had to be lanced, he would very likely lanced it himself
[01:04:16] then in there so as to make sure there was done with a clean needle and that no dirt was allowed to get in.
[01:04:24] There was no application about this, no striving after effect. There was simply that he felt that
[01:04:32] our feet were pretty important and that he knew that we were pretty careless. So he thought it best
[01:04:41] at the start to see to the matter himself. Nevertheless, there was an arise something almost
[01:04:48] religious about this care for our feet. It seemed to have a touch of the Christ about it and we loved
[01:04:55] and honored him the more. Literally getting down on his hands and knees and caring for the feet
[01:05:04] of his men. And you know, you can imagine the leaders that would see this as being beneath them
[01:05:14] and maybe even thinking in some way that this would make them look bad. But you can see obviously
[01:05:22] he's comparing him to Jesus. So I think it was a, I think it had a good effect on the men.
[01:05:35] We knew that we should lose him. For one thing, we knew that he would be promoted. It was our
[01:05:43] great hope that someday he would command the company. Also, we knew that he would be killed.
[01:05:52] He was so amazingly unself-conscious. For that reason, we knew that he would be absolutely fearless.
[01:06:02] He would be so keen on the job and hand and so anxious for his men that he would forget about his own
[01:06:08] danger. So it proved. He was a captain when we went out to the front. Whenever there was a tires
[01:06:16] and job to be done, he was there in charge. If ever there were a moment of danger, he was on the spot.
[01:06:25] If there were any particular part of the line where the shells were falling faster or the bombs
[01:06:31] dropping more thickly than in other parts, he was in it. It was not that he was conceited and
[01:06:37] imagined himself indispensable. It was just that he was so keen that the men should do their
[01:06:44] best and act worthy of the regiment. He knew that fellows hated turning out at night for fatigue
[01:06:52] when they were in a rest camp. He knew how tires in the long march there and back and digging in
[01:06:58] the dark for an unknown purpose were. He knew that the fellows would be inclined to growls and
[01:07:03] sure. So he thought that it was up to him to go and show them that he thought it was a job worth
[01:07:09] doing. And the fact that he was there put a new complexion on the matter altogether. No one would
[01:07:16] sure if he was there. No one would grumble so much either. What was good enough for him was good enough for us.
[01:07:23] So you got to get out there and you have told stories about picking up brass and doing the
[01:07:35] taking the bad watches, all those things. And this is a exact commentary about that. Just because
[01:07:44] you're in a leadership position doesn't mean you don't get to do the hard stuff or you don't have to
[01:07:48] do the hard stuff. It actually means you do the hard stuff. But I was talking to Jade. He did as
[01:07:55] ago. And, you know, he's the boss of his company and stuff. Man, that pretty much every word that's
[01:08:02] coming from that is like, man, it's reminding me of this where, like, this certain people in a group
[01:08:09] that can do that, that can go and like, you know, he'll wash your shoes and you don't, you don't
[01:08:13] automatically have that respect. And in some cases, you'll have less respect if like,
[01:08:20] sure, like they're kissing your butt and they don't have anything to look up to, you know, or,
[01:08:23] you know, these these kind of guys or whatever. But the point is as the leader or the boss or the
[01:08:30] dad or whatever. Like everyone in the group is watching you. People are watching. So if you're like,
[01:08:37] you can be like, hey, you can make 10, 20, 50 great moves. And then, but let's say you just kind of
[01:08:44] come in late every day or something like that or like you're disappointed. Yeah, they're watching.
[01:08:48] So they're like, okay, I see that. And they're not being critical necessarily. They're just watching.
[01:08:53] More odd thing. I'm sure you, I mean, they can go conscious or even subconscious. They could
[01:08:57] be, yeah, they could be getting critical. But man, they're watching. So when you're like,
[01:09:01] when, if they see slack off, they're like, uh, it's okay to slack off. Yeah, all right. Okay.
[01:09:07] Okay. Well, okay. That's what we're doing. You're needing, you know. Yeah. If you're from a leadership position,
[01:09:11] position, you're slacking. Your followers are going to slack. There's no doubt about it. Let there be no doubt.
[01:09:17] How are you lose your temper or even even if like you think no one's paying attention. You're like,
[01:09:22] you know, your kid is cruising with you, whatever you're on the phone with. I don't know. The
[01:09:25] cable guy and, you know, how they schedule the, you know, in your matter, whatever. I'll be there between nine a
[01:09:31] a, m, and nine p, m. I may have the next there or something. And he loses your temper on the cable guy.
[01:09:37] He's watching. You're like, oh, okay. That's kind of how it is. Like, that's how we do it.
[01:09:41] Kind of thing, you know, prep people watching. So yeah, this guy, where he's doing the hard stuff,
[01:09:47] you know, the top level stuff, bottom light he's doing it all. People are watching it and they see it.
[01:09:52] So they're like, man, that's the way to roll. I mean, literally something that they didn't think
[01:09:56] would digging in and move moving at night and digging in, you know, for an unknown purpose, they,
[01:10:02] they, he knew that they weren't fired up. As soon as he showed up and started doing it, they all
[01:10:05] realized, okay, if it's good enough for him. That's how we're rolling. It's good enough for us.
[01:10:10] They're back to the book. What was good enough for him was good enough for us. If it were not too much
[01:10:16] trouble for him to turn out, it was not too much trouble for us. He knew too how trying the nerves,
[01:10:24] how trying to the nerves it is to sit in a trench and be sheldered. He knew what a temptation there is
[01:10:31] to move a bit farther down the trench and herd together in a bunch at what seems the safest end.
[01:10:38] He knew too the folly of doing it and that there, that it was not the thing to do, not done in
[01:10:45] the best regiments. So he went along to see that it did not happen to see that the men stuck to their
[01:10:52] posts and conquered their nerves. And as soon as we saw him, we forgot our own anxiety.
[01:10:58] It was a bit further down, sir. We are all right here, but don't you go exposing yourself.
[01:11:05] We didn't matter. We knew it then. We were just rank and file bound to take risks. The company
[01:11:11] would get along all right without us, but the captain, how was the company to get on without him?
[01:11:18] To see him was to catch his point of view to forget our personal anxieties and think only of
[01:11:25] the company and the regiment and honor. That's an interesting concept.
[01:11:32] Is that your, this leader's presence actually opened his troopers minds to what he saw?
[01:11:44] That's awesome. There was not one of us, but would gladly have died for him.
[01:11:53] We longed for the chance to show him that. We weren't heroes. We never dreamed about getting the
[01:12:00] Victoria cross, but to save the captain, we would have earned it 10 times over.
[01:12:06] And never have cared a button whether we got it or not.
[01:12:12] We never got the chance. Worst luck. It was all the other way. We were holding some trenches,
[01:12:21] which were about as unhealthiest trenches could be. The boaches, which is a sling term for
[01:12:28] the Germans. The boaches were only a few yards away. And we're well supplied with trench mortars.
[01:12:36] We hadn't got any at the time. Bombs and air torpedoes were dropping round us all day.
[01:12:41] Of course, the captain was there. It seemed as if he could not keep away.
[01:12:47] A torpedo fell into the trench and buried some of our trap, chaps.
[01:12:51] The fellows next to them ran to dig them out. Of course, he was the first one.
[01:13:01] Then came another torpedo in the same place. That was the end.
[01:13:09] But he lives. Somehow he lives. And we who knew him do not forget.
[01:13:18] We feel his eyes on us. We still work for that wonderful smile of his.
[01:13:27] There are not many of the old lot left now, but I think those who went west have seen him.
[01:13:34] When they got to the other side, I think they were met.
[01:13:40] Someone said, well done, good and faithful servant. And as they knelt before, that gracious
[01:13:48] pierced figure, I reckon they saw nearby the captain's smile.
[01:13:56] Anyway, in that faith, let me die if death should come my way.
[01:14:03] And so, I think shall I die content.
[01:14:08] And die he did. Donald Hanky, who wrote that story was badly wounded in the battle
[01:14:29] leepers on July 30, 15 and after recovering from those wounds, he went back to the front, including action
[01:14:39] at the battle of the song. And later, preparing to go over the top at one, 30 in the afternoon,
[01:14:47] on October 12, 1916, Lieutenant Hanky, was reported to have told his men if wounded,
[01:15:00] blighty, if killed, resurrection. And blighty was a term that basically met million dollar
[01:15:10] wound, which we've talked about before on this podcast, the million dollar wound is
[01:15:15] how you get shot, it gets you off the front, but it doesn't kill you and it doesn't
[01:15:20] mean you for life. It's a million dollar wound and the brits called that a blighty. And so,
[01:15:25] at one, 30 in the afternoon, October 12, as his guys are getting ready to go over the top, he tells
[01:15:31] his men, if wounded blighty, if killed, resurrection. So you boys have nothing to fear.
[01:15:38] Shortly thereafter, he was killed. He is said to have been buried near the spot where he fell
[01:15:50] although the grave was never found. But we do have his words. So let us heed those words
[01:16:06] as we try to lead others as well as he did as well as we can as well as the beloved captain.
[01:16:18] With that, it's been some time since we've done some questions for the internet, so we can
[01:16:37] move to those questions. So it's good. After, after hearing a story like that,
[01:16:52] it's always tough for me to remember that when you hear one story like that,
[01:17:00] you've got to remember that there are thousands and thousands and thousands of stories like that
[01:17:10] of war and of leadership and of sacrifice. And if we don't do our damnedest to learn from those lessons
[01:17:26] and apply them, I question whether we even deserve to have this life.
[01:17:40] Yeah, about this story, be lovey captain. Yes.
[01:17:47] Like that's such a clear demonstration on how to be, where these guys would follow this guy
[01:17:52] basically into fire. They could probably watch him walk into a pit of fire and they don't follow.
[01:17:57] They did. Yeah. Think about it. They did. That's a world war one was. Yeah. Stand up. Go
[01:18:03] follow me. We're going to do this. Yeah. So if this guy's near presence can make
[01:18:11] these other guys follow him like that in these type of situations, like if more people would be
[01:18:16] like this guy, you know. In normal life, I mean, it'd be a breeze to have people, you know,
[01:18:24] listen to you and you guys get some stuff done and how much of the stuff that the beloved captain
[01:18:31] does is counter-intuitive of what people think of a military guy. I mean, almost everything in there,
[01:18:39] he's admitting his mistakes. He's figuring out who's awkward admitting to them that he's kind of
[01:18:46] messed up to. He's getting down on his knees and basically being almost submissive to his
[01:18:52] man in order to make sure that they're healthy. He's taking all the hard jobs. He's smiling
[01:18:59] and developing these strong relationships with his men. Like every one of those things is almost
[01:19:05] counter to what people think a big tough military leader is. The drill sergeant, the drill sergeant
[01:19:12] leader, like no. And so I see people in the civilian sector that end up in the same way. They think
[01:19:20] they think that that's how you lead because they've seen it in a movie. You know, that is not that
[01:19:25] that hyperaggressive mentality is ineffective with human beings. And actually, there's a question here
[01:19:35] where we'll probably talk about that some more. But that's why I always make it perfectly clear
[01:19:39] that I'm all about being aggressive. I'm all about being aggressive, but being aggressive towards
[01:19:44] your mission, not towards people. I mean, unless a person warrants aggressiveness, which does happen
[01:19:49] from time to time. That's called a fist fight. You know, far you noted where his mere presence
[01:19:59] kind of imp not imposed, but impacts their perspective, where it's like it's basically him walking
[01:20:06] in to whatever the situation. And them just kind of automatically, what's he seeing? Right. You know,
[01:20:11] they're so just kind of mean to him. Hey, let me move this weapon because he's a bad spot. Let me
[01:20:16] let me put it like this stuff up over here. That is completely right. Completely right. I was on a ship one
[01:20:21] time. And I thought I was about the commanding officer on a ship. There's something called the one
[01:20:27] MC, which is a basically loud speaker that goes throughout every portion of the ship. Everyone can
[01:20:32] hear it. And this commanding officer gets on the one MC and he's going to make a speech, right?
[01:20:37] Because that's what commanding officer does sometimes. And he says, I thought he was going to make the
[01:20:44] most epic speech because he's not the most epic. But I thought he's going to say something pretty powerful.
[01:20:48] Sure. He says, um, he says, hey, when you when when when you see a piece of trash on the ship,
[01:20:55] and when I see a piece of trash, I thought he was going to say, when I see a piece of trash, man, I go and pick it up.
[01:21:03] And he said he said something along the lines of when I see a piece of trash, I'm frustrated that
[01:21:08] nobody picked it up. And think about the the impact of those two statements, if he said what I thought he was
[01:21:14] going to say, which is, hey, when I see a piece of trash on the floor, I go over and I pick it up and
[01:21:19] put it away or throw it away. And then I make sure there's no other trash near it because I want this ship to
[01:21:24] shine. That's one thing. He said, hey, when I see a piece of trash on the ship, I get so frustrated
[01:21:31] that you aren't cleaning it up. And I was so let down that that that commanding officer said,
[01:21:36] that's true. But to your point, if you know, it's like the reason I thought of that is because you
[01:21:42] can see when even when I'm been in the commander of a unit of some kind, and I would see when I
[01:21:50] walk in unexpected, there's like a change. You know, and it's not always, you know, sometimes I've seen
[01:21:55] it where guys, the commander walks in and it's people who do that because of fear, right? Yeah, that's
[01:22:00] not different. That's not what we're looking for. Yeah. You want to say, oh, the boss is here. I don't
[01:22:04] want him to see that this is going on. I don't know. This is we shouldn't be doing that. We should.
[01:22:09] And that's you're right. That is a real powerful, real powerful,
[01:22:13] thought that he puts in here about how when the boss comes around, when the commander comes around
[01:22:21] and you, and it actually provides the troopers, the ability to see what he's seeing and how powerful
[01:22:27] that is. Well, in time, Jita, I forget what he had to do this thing where it's like it was like a
[01:22:33] tense thing. And he was just telling, he's talking to Sarah about it. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to
[01:22:38] leave like right after that because I don't want to have to face like some awkwardness or something
[01:22:42] like that. And then I'm kind of once there are life-hours like, I'm going to tell Jockel that you're
[01:22:47] going to do that. And you're like, oh, like, you knew how's joking, but he was like, you know, kind of like,
[01:22:53] what would you think about that? You're not even in Swasberland. Obviously, but it's kind of like that thing.
[01:22:58] You know, like, it would like, you're watching remember, Commander? Yeah, it's not like, yeah,
[01:23:03] go ahead. The part, there's this part, right? Where the story behind Commander is one of his
[01:23:11] guys that he trained and stuff went rogue, went bad, came back and they thought he was dead and
[01:23:17] he comes back and he helps, you know, you know, you know, great, sorry. Yeah, but it's built. Anyway,
[01:23:23] so this bad guy now, he, you could still, you could tell he still has all this admiration for
[01:23:29] his name is John Matrix for Arnold. They have Arnold because he's like, he's walking around the
[01:23:34] compound that he's kind of like, you know, and all these guys are like talking tough and stuff.
[01:23:39] So he goes to the other boss that he's now working with. He's all, it's funny to hear your men talk
[01:23:46] tough, it makes me laugh. If Matrix was here, he'd laugh too. You know, kind of like he's,
[01:23:51] it's almost like him and Matrix run the same team still, you know, he knows how he would see that,
[01:23:55] you know, kind of that same thing. Presence. Awesome. So, wrapping that rough transition,
[01:24:06] hmm. People want to support the podcasts. Are they going to do it? Echo Charles.
[01:24:14] Well, one way, the way I like to recommend one of the many is by supporting yourself at the same
[01:24:23] time on its supplements and where your bars on a dot com slash joc will get 10% off.
[01:24:30] Before this podcast, I'll make it short. Before this podcast, when I get a
[01:24:40] a shrimp tech, I didn't get 10% off. Now you can get 10% off or if you shop at Amazon,
[01:24:50] click through our websites is another way you can support podcasts. Click through our websites,
[01:24:54] Amazon link. Our website that's jocobotcast.com and jocostore.com. There's a little thing you can click on.
[01:25:03] Yep, and you can support that way. Because it's like, everything doesn't cost. No, it does not.
[01:25:07] It barely costs you time, barely. Really the thing is remembering to go there. Yeah. So that's kind of a thing.
[01:25:16] A good solution to that. Yes, which we do have now. A little trooper tool. Trooper tool is what it's called.
[01:25:23] It's this cool little thing. And it's on the website as well. It says trooper tool chrome extension.
[01:25:29] Boom. Click on it. Put a little icon on the top of your browser and it automatically
[01:25:35] affiliates your Amazon experience with us support passes. Passively. Passively. No,
[01:25:43] passively as opposed to passively. No, no, no, it's aggressive. Yes. But it's not.
[01:25:49] Yeah. Passively means you didn't do anything. It's not. We have we have troopers out there that are
[01:25:55] aggressively shopping on Amazon to support the podcast and I dig that. Yep. I'd rather sometimes.
[01:26:05] My friends on Twitter. They'll send me like a screenshot. Boom. Of their trooper tool or their
[01:26:11] little purchase. Like, yeah, bought this stuff tape. Here's my fan. It's a screenshot. No. Yeah.
[01:26:19] It really makes me feel empowered and I'm not joking. Well, this does help the podcast. Yeah.
[01:26:26] So fully appreciate it. Really. Subscribe to the podcast. Of course, I tunes and then on YouTube.
[01:26:32] As well. I'm slowly playing more videos. I'll put a few and keep putting more.
[01:26:38] So you're not just stuck watching the podcast, which is cool too. By the way, if you're into watching it
[01:26:46] and listening is sometimes like people will put it on their screen as they work out. You know? So they
[01:26:51] can kind of watch lists in workout. Watch lists, you know, it's a good little formula. You know,
[01:26:55] yeah, YouTube is a good one as well. And of course, the jocquistor. If you like,
[01:27:01] you know, shirts and whatnot, coffee mug stickers, they're pretty cool. I've got some great feedback.
[01:27:09] One announcement. We have women's stuff coming out. In about what a week or two.
[01:27:20] So yeah. So all the female troopers. Yeah. Who have been pressuring strongly recommend. Yeah. We'll say
[01:27:29] consistently strongly recommending. Yeah. Yeah. They're good ones. I chose three colors.
[01:27:35] You're going to have to wait and see which ones they are. And when they do come out, give me more
[01:27:40] feedback. I want to narrow it down to the stuff that we all want. So yeah, go do that.
[01:27:47] Talk of store.com. There's some cool stuff. If you like it, boom, get one or two or however many
[01:27:52] and that supports as well. And plus that means I don't have to buy my wife anything.
[01:27:56] Yeah. I'll just give it. Yeah. I'll send one. I don't have the
[01:28:00] podcast. That's actually one of the good reasons I like managing this stuff. I don't have to
[01:28:05] not that I really butchered that much anyway, but I have a bunch of shirts now. Plus maybe my daughter
[01:28:10] is too. Yeah. Perfect. That's a good. You know, do you go? Everybody's good to go. Are they regular
[01:28:16] are they the same design? Or is it something new? Uh, it's there. Yeah, they're more or less the same.
[01:28:21] But they're, you know, they're based at the Williams version. Okay. Well, what we got,
[01:28:25] I started with a discipline equals freedom. I might just do one for women because let's face it.
[01:28:30] Like we all get get after it in pretty much the same way except for everyone's in a while. Women
[01:28:36] get after it in a different way. Everyone's in a while. So it might be worth it to get them
[01:28:42] a little some different, some special. Just my opinion. Awesome. All right. There you go. That's always
[01:28:49] a support support that podcast, yeah. And with that question. It's a great one. I am a Marine
[01:29:02] Corps vet. Only four years. And I recently hired another Marine. He had a great reputation and a lot
[01:29:09] of experience as NCO leader, Gunny Sergeant. But he's not doing well in our company. He only seems to
[01:29:16] lead through fear slash authority. It isn't working. He has high standards, which I like, but he's
[01:29:23] not gaining the respect of his team or the rest of the company. What's going on? And how can I fix it?
[01:29:32] This is kind of a classic case. And unfortunately, it's an unfortunate case too. And what we have
[01:29:39] here is an example of a guy that's probably pretty charismatic. He's probably pretty aggressive.
[01:29:46] He's probably pretty loud. He's probably pretty authoritative. He's probably pretty smart. He's
[01:29:50] probably physically impressive. In other words, he's probably got a lot of natural good leadership traits.
[01:29:58] And I surmise in a situation like this that this is a type of person that took the basics of
[01:30:06] what the military taught him and utilized it to lead. And so what he did was he used
[01:30:13] imposed discipline. That's what guy used on him. And that's what he used. So it's the things that we
[01:30:20] just talked about. It's intimidation. It's the whole thing with maneuver warfare versus a
[01:30:26] tristion warfare that the military still teaches. Unfortunately, that the job of leaders is to
[01:30:35] obey orders and ensure orders are obeyed. Okay. That's that's what the military, unfortunately,
[01:30:41] in some cases teaches. And you can go through your career. And that's what you can kind of learn.
[01:30:45] Or you can have some good leadership inside the military that teaches you the better way, the way to
[01:30:51] actually lead. And so, but if you're raised that the way that your job as a leader is to obey
[01:31:01] orders and ensure that orders are obeyed. If that's your job, how do you do that? Well, you do it through
[01:31:06] blunt force trauma. That's how you do it. And as I've said before, that does work for a time period.
[01:31:16] It does get the job done. It's micro management. And fortunately or unfortunately, in the military,
[01:31:22] you've got people that rapidly cycle through leadership positions. And so it's not like you are
[01:31:30] permanently in charge of the same group of people. So you can kind of get away with it because you do
[01:31:36] a work up and it doesn't work up a stressful and then you go on deployment to tool it's only six
[01:31:39] months long. And by the time you're done, everybody hates you, but it's okay. You're moving on to your
[01:31:42] next job. And so that's how people survive. And what really hurts about this is because they survive
[01:31:51] that leadership position. It actually reinforces that type of leadership behavior, which is not good.
[01:31:57] But what they do is, if let's say you do, it just an American kind of mindset of, hey,
[01:32:04] if some is good, more is better. And so they take this, this attitude and they become more
[01:32:14] more aggressive. They impose more discipline. They raise this standards to a ridiculous level.
[01:32:19] Where it's no longer even sensible. Where things just become stupid. Like we used to say,
[01:32:27] so I don't know why they call this, but in the military, they call the push-up position,
[01:32:30] the front leaning rest. Front leaning rest. I don't know why. But then they also use the term
[01:32:37] forward leaning. Meaning, hey, we want to be ahead. We want to be ready for a new prepared. And I used to say,
[01:32:44] let's not be so far forward leaning that we're in the leaning rest. Meaning that we're leaning
[01:32:49] so far forward that we're wasting our energy and getting tired. And so at a certain point,
[01:32:54] it can become super. An example this would be like a uniform inspections.
[01:32:59] Like, okay, you got to have a square-to-a uniform. You know, you got to be able to break out
[01:33:03] uniform, look sharp. Well, if you do that every day, you're wasting time because it's not the most
[01:33:09] important thing. It does have a level of importance somewhere on the hierarchy of important things.
[01:33:14] Not real high, but there's some people, if you're a strict military disciplinary in,
[01:33:21] you might think I need to have a uniform inspection every single day, because my guys are going to
[01:33:24] look the best. And so you got a bunch of guys that not only are they wasting time prepping their
[01:33:28] uniform and paying for the uniform get dry cleaned. And they're actually using their uniform so
[01:33:33] much, they're dressed uniform so much that they're providing wear and tear on it. And so it's just,
[01:33:38] it's just stupid. Doesn't make any sense. So that's what they do. These leaders that have been
[01:33:46] raised like that, they start to do it even more. And it just defeats its own purpose. And most
[01:33:51] important is that these leaders start to stifle free thought from their subordinates.
[01:34:00] And eventually, and this is even more critical, eventually they begin to stifle free thought from their own
[01:34:07] brain. And that's likely what happened in a situation like this. And you know, you got a guy that
[01:34:16] again was raised in this attitude and he took that attitude and he amplified that attitude and that
[01:34:21] is how he was successful and he amplified it even more. And he ends up now he breaks out of the
[01:34:25] brain core. Well, now it's not just a six month appointment. You got to lead people for years and
[01:34:29] years and years and you got to go from different various projects and all these personalities and
[01:34:35] and it's a more sensitive environment because it's in the civilian sector and lives aren't necessarily
[01:34:41] it's stake. And so what do you need to do? What what you need him to do? So that I'm talking to the
[01:34:49] leader that asked this question, what what can you do to help? Well, what you need that former
[01:34:55] marine gun resurgence to do, what you need him to see is that the next level of leadership, the
[01:35:05] next progression along the spectrum of leadership is not more of all that. It's actually less.
[01:35:16] It's not more imposed discipline on your troops. It's actually less. It's the troops having
[01:35:22] free thought and self discipline and it is not you leading more. It is actually you leading less.
[01:35:32] It is not you taking more ownership is you taking less ownership and your troops taking more
[01:35:38] ownership. It is him giving guidance, giving commanders intent and then stepping back.
[01:35:49] It is him not being the focus because a lot of times when you're in a leadership position that can be
[01:35:56] an ego feeder and all of a sudden you want to be the center of attention you want to be in the spotlight
[01:36:02] but you don't want to be that. You want to be less of that and it and I'm telling you.
[01:36:10] So that's what you got to do. You got to open his eyes to what the next level of leadership looks
[01:36:15] like. He's never had that opened for him and I'm going to tell you right now it's going to be
[01:36:20] hard to get him there because there's a good chance that he's a hard person to coach because
[01:36:24] he's been successful with the techniques that he learned and he has experience and that
[01:36:31] experience has strengthened his resolve and his belief and his leadership technique.
[01:36:39] It's it's a tough situation. So you're likely going to have to take an indirect approach.
[01:36:44] And so for instance here's a good one. Hey I was wondering you know who's going to take your place
[01:36:52] when it's you know when it's time for promotion who you're grooming to fill your shoes.
[01:36:56] Because guess what he's not grooming anybody. Or you ask him how much time he's spending looking
[01:37:06] up and out at what's going on strategic as opposed to down and in at his own little element.
[01:37:14] And the other thing that you could do is assign him some higher level projects that actually pull
[01:37:20] him out of the micro management weeds and maybe even put him on projects with people that don't
[01:37:29] micro manage and good leaders that lead in a good way put him on some kind of project with them so he can
[01:37:36] see what that looks like. And obviously these are just some suggestions of approaches because you're
[01:37:45] probably going to have to you'll have to adapt those and figure out exactly how to walk him through
[01:37:56] to the end state which the end state the commander's intent for me is you want to teach him what the
[01:38:01] next what the next level the next advancement of leadership skill for him is and it's something
[01:38:10] that's the opposite of what he learned so good challenge yeah yeah that that leading from authority
[01:38:23] thing and fear and authority it's almost like it's so black and white where when someone does that it's so
[01:38:31] clear it's very clear and it's very addictive person because there's immediate gratification I told you to
[01:38:38] do it and then the kids he worked yeah it kind of takes less work to a lot of the time
[01:38:45] totally takes less work you don't have to invest in relationships you don't do invest in
[01:38:49] in indirect approaches on things of course it takes less work it's it's real simple yeah you can
[01:38:56] kind of give into your temper sometimes too yeah your temper's a little bit of a tool with that
[01:39:01] kind of the problem is over time these that type of leadership doesn't work you want to be
[01:39:07] with the beloved captain who never lost his temper who never yelled at his men and yet who would
[01:39:12] follow him into the fires of hell yeah next question if you had a leader at work we did not
[01:39:24] respect and know as ineffective and you've communicated that team yet when they see you they try to
[01:39:32] shake your hand how would you react and how would you deny their hands shake offering
[01:39:40] appreciate the feedback so um okay this is just off the mark right I mean all I hope I hope
[01:39:47] people realize that this is no it's okay I mean I understand the reason I put this in there just because
[01:39:53] this is what we talked about earlier where you think man I'm holding the line and I'm holding the
[01:39:59] line and this is my expectations of a leader and you don't fit it so I'm gonna number one I'm
[01:40:03] gonna tell you number two if you try and shake my hand you're not getting right so that's what we
[01:40:08] call an adversary relationship and it's not what we want how let me ask you this how is this going
[01:40:14] to help your cause to have an air adversary relationship with your boss how does it help your
[01:40:18] cause is he gonna listen you more or less is he gonna support you more or less will he give you what
[01:40:25] you want more or less which one you won't shake his hand and and you think he's gonna support you
[01:40:34] in any way no and furthermore is he if you have an adversary relationship with your boss is he
[01:40:42] more likely to promote you into position where you can have more control over decisions for the team
[01:40:47] and for your own future what do you think the answer to that is negative all those answers are obvious
[01:40:56] this whole concept is wrong our job is to build a relationship with our boss and honestly we
[01:41:07] have everyone else for that matter that's what we're trying to do straight up disrespecting the boss
[01:41:13] or again anyone is not gonna help our cause it's gonna hurt it now this doesn't mean that we're
[01:41:23] kissing ass this doesn't mean that we're folding it doesn't mean that we're weak this is this is
[01:41:29] this is the this is the challenge for me to convince people that want to be strong leaders that this
[01:41:34] doesn't mean that you are weak it actually takes more strength to control your emotions it takes
[01:41:43] more strength to remain professional it takes more strength to focus on the long term win
[01:41:50] and not the short term frustration it takes more strength to keep your ego in check and I would say
[01:42:01] that this whole question is a good is it is an indicator to me I might need to check my own ego
[01:42:11] okay am I critical of my boss am I critical because of my boss because I'm a little bit jealous is that possible
[01:42:20] am I critical of my boss because I think I deserve the job more than they do
[01:42:26] do I think that my boss got lucky or he's a brown noiser or he's favored some way that's
[01:42:33] why he got it and I'm gonna be better about it and therefore I'm not gonna respect him
[01:42:39] all the loose right there ego talking right full on ego talking so you got to put the ego in check
[01:42:46] you got to support the boss and you got to support the team then that's the best way to support the
[01:42:51] boss and support the team and the obvious caveat to this is if the boss is doing something that's
[01:42:58] illegal or a moral or an ethical then fine yeah of course absolutely you can call them out
[01:43:05] you can deny his handshake you can report him up the chain of command or to the authorities
[01:43:10] because if you're part of what he's doing and you know it then you're complicit in the activities
[01:43:16] so you're at risk anyways and it's the right thing to do so obviously in those cases yeah
[01:43:24] you you can hold your ground but borrowing those extreme circumstances what you want to do with your
[01:43:31] boss is build the relationship and again it's not just your boss it's your peers it's your chain
[01:43:36] of command up and down you want to build those relationships instead of breaking them yeah
[01:43:44] yeah it seems it's still not funny it's interesting how when you lay it out and I'm sure a lot
[01:43:50] it may be even when it's listening to this just hearing this question out loud it seems obvious you know
[01:43:57] but really you try to think about yourself in this situation yeah where yeah you don't like this
[01:44:03] guy and maybe he said some stuff to offend you even and you don't respect him obviously so yeah
[01:44:08] like you don't want to shake this guy's hand like how you feel is a lot of times what dictates
[01:44:14] your behavior you know towards people and just otherwise so when you're in the situation this
[01:44:19] is kind of like it's so hard to be like yeah I don't respect his whole methods I don't like any of
[01:44:26] this stuff he's gonna come shake my hand it's so hard to be like sure and and do what you're talking
[01:44:30] about it can be put your ego and check put your emotions and yeah put your attitude and check
[01:44:36] and just go hey boss how's it going today you know everything's going good here yeah
[01:44:42] so I appreciate the support you've been given us there's one decision you made I was kind of
[01:44:46] wondering about I'd love to get love to pick your brain on and some point oh really
[01:44:50] whereas if I just go I don't want to shake your hand I hate you I basically disrespect you and I hate
[01:44:57] you and I hate you and not what you do decision you made over here as long as you can listen to me there's
[01:45:01] no chance there's no chance you're gonna wait you're gonna lose the argument yeah me when I go in there
[01:45:06] when I say boss how's it going yes yeah no problem hey I want to think I want to pick your
[01:45:10] brain about the decision you made over here is you gonna listen to me got a better chance still
[01:45:14] might say no but guess what I'm fighting along or I'm gonna outlast him I'm gonna outwork him I'm
[01:45:18] out maneuver him yeah my boss is gonna do what I want him to do I know and yeah you gotta keep
[01:45:24] that in mind man yeah because when you're in it when you lose that little about it because really
[01:45:28] that's what it is when you're shaking your hand and you're like in your head you're like I hate
[01:45:32] you I don't want to shake your hand shaking get your hand out of my feet your whole existence of
[01:45:37] your hand front of my face is an insult that's what you're thinking so if you shake it you lost that
[01:45:41] battle and that that's bad right there for you that's a real bad it's it's very very
[01:45:47] yeah immature when yeah it just feels right at the at the time yeah if you got your emotions get
[01:45:53] all crazy if you're not being strategic that's it if you're not thinking about winning yeah and
[01:45:58] by no means you're not playing the game correctly I know that's it but the point is I
[01:46:03] understand you feel it's good if we say it out loud it's like oh my gosh it's so clear you know
[01:46:08] how I'm always asking you know what you you you just indicated to me something very obvious
[01:46:13] is that over time you know over time you get to you okay you go for a hard workout and you get to
[01:46:20] you look forward to the feeling afterwards of that yeah I did this hard workout there's some
[01:46:25] door fins or whatever I'm gonna tell you at some point I developed some sort of attitude
[01:46:30] where when I when I control myself and I make a good strategic move if it feels just as good
[01:46:36] yeah it feels way better than the short term oh man I really told him no no wrong answer you
[01:46:42] lost you want the battle lost the work idiot that's what I feel like if I make that mistake
[01:46:47] that's absolutely correct they only you've could you condition yourself to the whole process you
[01:46:51] know because you probably went through it a few times tasted the fruits you know winning the
[01:46:55] lot but so it's just with experience that exactly right exactly right so and there's ways you
[01:47:01] can kind of do that to yourself like I do if like even if you have like an ultimately when
[01:47:07] when you boil kind of your whole way of thinking down when you do have an ego that you think is like
[01:47:12] a functional ego but use that ego to win the long word so like kind of like what I did with
[01:47:17] getting mad it's like no one can like my like no one's gonna tell me I have a little self esteem
[01:47:22] because really you know anger and grace is usually because a little self esteem so in this case you
[01:47:28] could be like hey if you ever facilitate that adversarial relationship where you don't shake his hand
[01:47:33] or you're like you want to as he said you've communicated that to him you have leader that you
[01:47:40] don't respect and you know is ineffective and you told them okay so keep that when you say stuff
[01:47:45] like that consider that is like your weakness like just tell yourself that what it is
[01:47:50] say that's your weakness but forgetting a long word and for and for showing your cards that
[01:47:55] showing your question yes yeah just it's this little internal thing you tell yourself
[01:48:00] and then just like how you're saying where you feel dumb any of you if your ego can't handle that
[01:48:05] can't handle all that then go I'll go back to my point that I said this doesn't mean you're weak
[01:48:10] it means that you are winning yeah well flip it around as far as what you tell yourself like
[01:48:15] you know it feels weak to lose a small battle I understand but flip it around and say hey say it
[01:48:20] is no if you win it at the expense of the long that means your weak say that to yourself and it'll
[01:48:25] get easier you know if you're rushing yourself if you lose the long-term battle you're
[01:48:29] even more weak yes that's the big weakness for the big weakness all right next question
[01:48:38] for the pilot cast what would a jacco school for boys and girls eight to sixteen years old
[01:48:46] should this be interesting what would that look like schedule subjects physical education
[01:48:52] so first of all I would love to do this and it's seriously one day I would I may do this
[01:48:59] Lord of the fly yes I I actually really do relate to kids for some reason and I think a school
[01:49:09] I think I could develop a school that would be awesome and outstanding and would produce
[01:49:14] really stable strong mentally capable children for the world so and so I was so happy when I saw
[01:49:29] this question and I've actually looked and I've actually I've actually pondered the ideas of you know
[01:49:35] buying a buying a piece of property you know what it would cost maybe getting some investors together
[01:49:40] that we're gonna build a skype up literally I've actually looked for property which is something
[01:49:44] I do all the time but I've looked for property and said okay this would probably work so like a
[01:49:49] like almost like an extension school like in the little oh no like an academy like a school that you
[01:49:54] go to and you and we we what we could probably do is do like a instead of a hey you're going to go
[01:50:01] here from six grade to graduation you go for like one year you go one year here you go back to
[01:50:10] your regular school after you've been in the school for a year you're going back to your regular
[01:50:13] school you're going to totally dominate you're going to be number one you're going to learn so much
[01:50:19] more it's just going to be awesome so we would need to bring we wouldn't need to bring these young
[01:50:25] these these children into the school for for the entire time because you know you could go
[01:50:30] back out of the regular world and overlay what you learned at the academy and you would just
[01:50:38] dominate and so yeah maybe I'll end up doing that someday and this schedule I mean I didn't spend that
[01:50:48] much time on it it doesn't really even take that much time to figure out because you know what we're
[01:50:53] doing we're waking up very early in the morning we're doing our hardcore PT some kind of sports variety
[01:50:59] of sports guess what we're playing every sport you know baseball basketball swimming football
[01:51:04] soccer wrestling judo boxing we're going to do a little bit of everything that's going to happen
[01:51:09] really I mean obviously we're getting up at 430 we are up before the sun gets up I mean that's the
[01:51:14] way it is and then we get the knowledge so we go into the classrooms the classrooms I would get
[01:51:22] instructors that were full on engaged in what they're doing just in the game that love their subject
[01:51:29] and that can relate it's the world and most important because I think this is what's lacking
[01:51:36] sometimes most important through all the different knowledge courses or all the basic knowledge there
[01:51:43] would be a common thread that connects them all together because that's what I think people are missing
[01:51:52] that a lot I think we miss that that underlying theme of a few our educational system but I think
[01:52:00] when you connect everything they're more powerful like when you connect math the science to history
[01:52:05] to English to foreign language and you connect those to art in music and you connect there's
[01:52:11] some there because there are all those things if you look at history all those things are connected
[01:52:16] they're all connected but we don't make the connections and when you don't connect things they're
[01:52:20] weaker so I would force or I wouldn't you would have to force it you don't have to force it I would
[01:52:28] I would foster that thread through everything so that everything made sense in a big picture
[01:52:38] and that way when you get granular you're tying it into this overlying theme of civilization and
[01:52:44] the movement of the way things go through civilization now I'll tell you another piece of this
[01:52:53] you would learn vocational skills at my school a hundred percent you would learn carpenter you
[01:52:58] would learn how to do electrical wiring you would learn plumbing you would learn automotive
[01:53:04] and repair you would learn all those things and guess what are you going to take those courses like I
[01:53:10] said this this court this school would probably only be a year long that's fine because guess what
[01:53:15] you know long it takes to learn basic carpenter not real long are you know you're skilled carpenter
[01:53:21] no but I'm not looking to build skilled carpeters are you going to be ready to rewire a giant building
[01:53:27] a commercial building no but could you rewire a house likely it doesn't take that much time to
[01:53:33] learn that you won't be skilled at it but you have the knowledge same thing with plumbing and
[01:53:40] like I said the automotive so I so you would learn those vocational skills because we have people
[01:53:44] in America right now that don't know any that stuff and that's jacked up yeah even like when I was
[01:53:52] young my dad used to make us change our own oil you can you can go anywhere it takes like in
[01:53:58] way or 50 minutes but he's like no you change your own oil you got to know what to do with the oil you know
[01:54:03] there's this little process you can't just be rolling around and change flat tire even now I
[01:54:07] have to play I don't I don't culture play for flat tire because so I hadn't got to flat tire in
[01:54:11] long time I got to flat tire one day and actually recently I didn't get any kind of flat tire so none
[01:54:16] of the less but I change in every time because when I first got it after not having a flat tire for a
[01:54:21] while I thought oh man do I even remember how to do this I of course I did I remember how to do
[01:54:27] it's not that hard just like I said so there are people who don't know they get a flat tire and
[01:54:33] they're they're lost they're lost they're lost they're yeah they only have triple air whatever
[01:54:36] sure they get saved but if they can do them themselves you know so at my school you would learn
[01:54:43] those vocational skills and then on top of that you'd learn basic survival skills
[01:54:51] little hunting little fishing little gardening and planting and how to grow things grow food
[01:54:57] and your basics water fire and shelter you learn those so you'd be able to survive in an environment
[01:55:04] in any situation obviously with all those survival skills and the vocational skills and even the
[01:55:12] classroom knowledge skills there would be a a system of team building where you're going to be
[01:55:22] doing things together as a team not only for your classes but also cleaning the place working together
[01:55:28] as a team and that's what they do in military boot camps all you do clean they turn cleaning
[01:55:33] into like a team building exercise so we would do that people would be in simple uniforms you
[01:55:41] know nothing too fancy obviously the nighttime would be the study of the martial arts
[01:55:50] and you would learn the basics of jujitsu boxing, moitai and wrestling and that's what my
[01:56:00] school would be like and there'd be some real discipline there and there would be real achievement
[01:56:05] and I think that anybody that spent one year in that school right there would have a
[01:56:12] infinitely greater chance of success and domination in whatever they feel they chose to go into
[01:56:20] and when they went back to their school to their regular school you know it's funny at first at first
[01:56:25] thought when I'm here I'm kind of picturing this stuff or whatever and I'm sure I'm not the only
[01:56:30] one listening to this where you're like oh shoot that probably that's a hardcore school you know they
[01:56:35] got to be ready to to get but then you know you want to go well when you think about it you're
[01:56:39] probably wouldn't be that hardcore in fact it'd probably be kind of fun given your approach to you know
[01:56:46] teaching or in leading and stuff like that because man I remember when I it was like when I first
[01:56:52] met you I met you and you don't remember when I first met you but so I kind of knew you were
[01:56:55] whatever little bit this was back at the boxing club and you came in first time I saw your kids
[01:57:01] door like Thor and I think one of his systems I forget I don't know which one I forget they're
[01:57:05] just little kids and you'd brought them or whatever and they come in the door and they just start
[01:57:11] running around like this is a big playground right? Psychopath right? Yeah hitting the bags and doing
[01:57:16] all this stuff right and then you had this look on your face kind of like it's almost like you
[01:57:20] had control of the situation but you're just gonna let them be them kind of thing and I remember
[01:57:24] just kind of kind of looking at like all this is interesting I never seen Jockel and his kids you know
[01:57:29] so let me so it's kind of just watching so decentralized command it was really the
[01:57:34] matter of speaking it so um do you just started kind of going on and I think you might even been teaching
[01:57:41] I don't know you're involved in some way and they got loud real quick and it kind of was like
[01:57:48] for like a better term kind of distracting and you like kind of stop what you're doing you were like
[01:57:54] you could stop that like real mean and then I was like let me see like how they react you know I look
[01:58:01] and then they stop they look at you like just just for maybe almost two seconds they look
[01:58:05] you look at each other like that and they just start laughing and they keep going and they like
[01:58:10] you kind of started laughing at the same day I was like oh I see like you're probably strict but
[01:58:16] just not that's their kids you know they're doing kids stuff we want they're not breaking
[01:58:20] nothing yeah so it was like it's almost like they knew and then they knew beyond that you know
[01:58:25] like they knew what was ultimately up that was interesting well you know maybe we can put this
[01:58:30] school together at some point I know there's a lot of people that would love to send their kids
[01:58:36] to a school like this on every and I would obviously I would send all my kids to school like this tomorrow
[01:58:42] if it existed yeah one year of the academy that's what it's called the academy I think it would
[01:58:49] have to be you know a big part of it and I'm sure this would probably I'm sure this would
[01:58:56] would be implemented in the whole system is how the teachers and instructors are treated
[01:59:03] for sure you know like because I think that's a lot of the time anyway like one of the
[01:59:09] many issues you know one that one issues come up in education it's like how are the teachers
[01:59:14] regarded yeah in that situation yeah man yeah good sign me up okay next question
[01:59:23] I'm about to accept a position across the country after changing the IT field I work in
[01:59:28] I've just been accepted from my first job and in this type of position with the amount of
[01:59:33] responsibility I'll have and I'm not or I'm having some issues and some hesitations on if I'll be good enough
[01:59:39] have you ever been in a position before were you tried to bite off more than you can chew professionally
[01:59:45] how do you approach it and is there ever a time where you think it's best to bow out and quit and if so
[01:59:52] how do you know when that point is so actually most people get
[01:59:57] hired into leadership positions they haven't been in before the seal teams is all about that you
[02:00:03] get promoted you do that leadership job and just as you're getting the hang of it you get promoted again
[02:00:10] so there's nothing abnormal about feeling that you aren't quite ready for a leadership position
[02:00:16] and the reason that some people fail when they get to these positions that they're not ready for
[02:00:23] is because they're nervous that they're going to show that and so they try to hide it
[02:00:29] they're afraid to ask questions they're afraid to say they don't know so they end up looking
[02:00:35] scared and stupid which equates to looking incompetent and I mean even just with the beloved
[02:00:46] captain they they actually kicked off there's a reason this guy included those statements in there
[02:00:51] that he asked questions and asked for guidance and admitted his mistakes there's a reason that he was
[02:00:57] beloved that is one of the reasons and so so so that's what you got to do is
[02:01:10] be okay with it don't try and hide it now to bow out and quit I have not done that
[02:01:14] but there's no reason to because if I don't know how to do something I have no problem asking
[02:01:21] for help up and down the chain of command up and down the chain of command nothing wrong with that
[02:01:29] and I've said this before that what what you're feeling
[02:01:35] person that asked this question what you're feeling that you aren't good enough and that you don't
[02:01:39] want to blow at those are actually signs of humility and it's okay those are good I've felt those
[02:01:46] feelings my whole career and I still feel them now and when I was in the suit teams I would over
[02:01:52] prepare for things and it wasn't because I thought I was going to dominate it was because I thought I was
[02:01:56] going to fall short and even I was telling you I prepared for the podcast all yesterday I thought I was
[02:02:06] good literally had printed out my notes woke up this morning worked out and I was like no I'm not
[02:02:11] ready I over prepared for this why because in my mind I'm feeling I'm going to blow it
[02:02:18] and I don't like that but there's a thing it's like a for real thing it's called imposter syndrome
[02:02:25] you're you're heard that no but it's this and I think you know what I think I think everyone has
[02:02:29] it and it's in whether a teeny tiny bit or a lot it's where it's basically you feel this you feel like
[02:02:36] I'm re-like on the inside like I'm really not this good you can be like champion of the world
[02:02:41] on the inside you're like this just a matter of time before they find me out you know I don't know
[02:02:45] I don't deserve to be here whatever that I wish more people would have that because there's a lot of
[02:02:50] people that I know that have been in leadership positions that feel that they have the divine right
[02:02:55] yeah to be there a lot of times if they'll have it they'll behave in that oh they absolutely do
[02:03:01] that's why they fail that's crazy so rehash as always bottom line be humble
[02:03:09] study and learn what you can ask questions and if you don't know something admit it now I had to
[02:03:16] make this note and I'm cautious to even say this but I do have to say it asking questions doesn't just
[02:03:27] mean putting your ignorance on clear display all the time okay when you ask questions make sure you
[02:03:37] are asking thoughtful meaningful questions it in fact if you can find out the answer on your own
[02:03:46] do that if it's something that you can refer back to and you can look up and you can go back and you can
[02:03:50] check out the work chart you can see where that department is or you can find out who's run in that
[02:03:54] project without having to ask that question do that because contrary to popular belief there actually
[02:04:03] is in fact such a thing as a stupid question and you can get away with it sometimes so you don't
[02:04:09] need to be hyper paranoid about it but you also part of leadership is confidence and up and down
[02:04:20] so you gotta have some confidence and you people have to have some confidence in you and if
[02:04:24] if you don't know anything and you can't figure it out for you can't figure out some portions of that
[02:04:32] on your own that's not a good sign because I just expect if you're gonna be in charge of me
[02:04:37] that you couldn't look that up you didn't you didn't review this before you came in here I know you
[02:04:42] don't know my job but you should at least know what the requirements of my job are you shouldn't
[02:04:46] at least know what the outcomes at a strategic level of my job are right you see what I'm saying
[02:04:52] there's a difference so you don't have to go in there and be overly humble you don't have to go in
[02:05:01] there and be overtly blank wide open with what you don't know because again I was cautious to make
[02:05:12] this note because this doesn't I you should feel comfortable enough saying hey I don't know how to do this
[02:05:17] or hey can you explain that the way that works to me can you explain what this project you know
[02:05:21] what this project entails there's nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that but
[02:05:26] if you go into a room and you accidentally ask a question of something that everybody legitimately
[02:05:34] should know you're gonna look stupid that's a mistake that's a mistake and so don't do that it's
[02:05:42] okay be humble ask questions but ask thoughtful questions meaning for questions that you don't know
[02:05:50] because it's it would be pretty difficult for you to know the answer yeah yeah it's I mean it
[02:05:56] kind of seems obvious when you say it out loud where you're not gonna know everything no so that
[02:06:01] makes sense but you gotta know something you gotta be there for reason you can't be like hey I don't
[02:06:07] know nothing I shouldn't be hearing you and that's another thing from the beloved captain where he
[02:06:10] says for a few days he didn't do anything yes what if you can observe for a few days you're probably
[02:06:16] gonna answer a bunch of questions just for observation and taking notes and getting back and maybe
[02:06:22] conferring with your trusted agent or your senior enlisted guy or your your superintendent you
[02:06:30] can confer directly with them and keep that build that relationship while your garnering information
[02:06:36] mm-hmm yeah don't be that guy try not to yes yeah try not to
[02:06:46] jockel how do I take ownership of mixed messages to the people under me from the other leaders in my group
[02:06:55] pretty straightforward question I like it well first of all you have to address this straight up with
[02:07:01] the other leaders in your group because if you aren't aligned as a leadership team this is gonna
[02:07:07] hurt the cause it is absolutely gonna hurt the cause this is critical and it's gonna be hard
[02:07:12] and there are some things in your group that people do not agree on and that is why they are
[02:07:17] undermining the messaging or why they're giving out different messaging because they don't agree
[02:07:22] with it they don't have the courage to stand up and say hey I don't agree with this right here so
[02:07:27] let's do it a different way here's my thoughts they don't have the courage to that so what do they
[02:07:30] do they just sit back and then when it comes time to put out the word they put out the mixed messages
[02:07:34] and it's it's a bad situation and you actually have to lead here that's what you have to do and
[02:07:40] it shouldn't actually be that hard because what you're asking for is something that anybody can tell
[02:07:47] is important so you know you said you say your leadership team you go hey guys our message to the
[02:07:52] troops needs to be aligned and right now it isn't we need to fix that is there anyone on your
[02:07:58] leadership team is gonna disagree with that no they won't that's not what they disagree with they
[02:08:02] everybody knows that the leadership team has to have an aligned message they have to be on the same
[02:08:07] sheet of music and that's what you need to do and and again it's gonna be a hard conversation
[02:08:15] it's gonna bring out that statement should bring out the conversation of what people don't
[02:08:20] agree on and why they're sending messages now if you if you cannot get them aligned it is a
[02:08:30] serious problem but if you can't the best thing you can do is mitigate mitigate that to your team
[02:08:41] by becoming the trusted voice so so with your team you want to become the trusted voice now
[02:08:47] you doesn't mean that you're going to undermine your other leaders it's a echo came in here
[02:08:52] he doesn't know what he's talking about no no that's not what I'm talking about I'm never
[02:08:56] almost never talking about undermining another leader or a leadership team what I'm going to do
[02:09:02] though is I'm going to translate I'm gonna say hey guys our job on this I know echo said that here's
[02:09:08] our job here's here's what our focus needs to be here's the way this translates for us so I'm not
[02:09:15] disparaging you and I'm not even disagreeing with you I'm simply honing the message for my team
[02:09:23] now you still even if you need to do that you're mitigating that as much as possible you
[02:09:29] still have to maintain the critical goal of getting your leadership team aligned and one other
[02:09:36] little tool to help make that happen is to present their words back to them and you said you know
[02:09:44] I wrote down what you said to the team this morning and I just wanted to go through that with you
[02:09:48] and break it down a little bit and then go through it line by line and have the hard conversations
[02:09:56] and make the tough decisions you've got to make the tough decisions and also give a little
[02:10:04] seed some points right be flexible but unify unify the message and there's a worse number
[02:10:15] worst case nearer but there are scenarios where echo and I cannot agree on the message and we
[02:10:20] got to go up the chain of command now I would never want to do that I would never ever want to say to my
[02:10:26] boss hey echo and I can agree you need to make the decision for us to me that's a total failure
[02:10:32] it's a failure in my leadership that I can't get us on the same sheet of music so I don't I can't even
[02:10:39] think of any time that I ever did that went to my boss and said hey boss I can't we you know I can't
[02:10:44] come to a come to a conclusion here with the other task you need to commander so I can't come to a
[02:10:48] conclusion with the other pertune commanders or I can't come to a conclusion with my squad about
[02:10:53] how we should do this I've never done that so you should be able to if you're right you'll win the
[02:10:58] argument and if you're wrong then you change your mind so it's not that it's not like this
[02:11:01] ultimate I like I'm saying I'm great I'm just saying if you're right then you'll win the argument
[02:11:06] and if you're wrong then you'll change your mind so it's not that hard so that's what happens
[02:11:12] needs to happen here with the leadership team we've got to find out who's right and people that are
[02:11:17] right need to convince that people that are wrong now you need to check your ego obviously
[02:11:24] cross the board every team everybody on the teams got to check the ego because a lot of people will
[02:11:29] be holding on to their idea because it's their idea and they love their idea because there's
[02:11:35] egotistical and that's how I would deal with mixed messages coming down the chain of command
[02:11:45] I'm gonna go ahead and just say it that that could have been one of the best lines I've ever heard
[02:11:50] if you're right you'll win the argument if you're wrong you'll change your mind that's a good
[02:11:56] that's a good one you just think that up I did just make it up yeah I mean I guess it's
[02:12:01] something that I've known but right that's what makes it so good because you kind of kind of
[02:12:06] seems like oh yeah you don't write but that's never the case but if you're being on the
[02:12:11] up and up there it is right there there you go echo likes that one we got time for about one more
[02:12:21] I don't see why not juggle you often talk about being on the path what path is that and where does it lead
[02:12:33] I guess the path well I can tell you what path I'm on and what path I strive to stay on
[02:12:48] and that is the war path that that's the path I'm on the war path of war
[02:13:03] because to me war path means moving toward a battle a fight towards war
[02:13:11] and that is what I am doing and that's what I've always been doing
[02:13:21] whether it was the actual war against our nations enemies or the war against my own weaknesses
[02:13:32] that is what I am doing preparing and sharpening my sword and honing my skills and maintaining
[02:13:46] the unmedicated daily discipline in all things and the war path is just that it's a path
[02:13:59] it's a route it leads somewhere and so you ask okay then where does it lead
[02:14:11] and yes yes it can lead to war and that's fine
[02:14:19] in fact I am waiting and I am ready because the war path is a war against weakness and so it leads to strength
[02:14:37] it's a war against ignorance and so it leads to knowledge it's a war against confusion
[02:14:52] and so it delivers understanding and the path the war path leads to
[02:15:04] control and leads to ownership of your life and that to me is the war path the path of fire
[02:15:20] and adversity the path of blood and of sweat and of suffering
[02:15:25] the war path is the preeminent path of discipline which is why it leads to freedom
[02:15:39] and beyond that in the end the war path it leads to peace
[02:15:58] and I think that's all I've got for the night so thanks everyone out there for taking the time to
[02:16:09] listen to this this little podcast we put together and if you like it then you want to support it
[02:16:19] echo and they do that if you're in the mood if you work out
[02:16:29] and I heard this before but if you work out and you want supplements that actually work
[02:16:33] because supplement industry you probably know this bro they can put whatever they want
[02:16:37] and there's no regulation yeah you can I don't know if it was a documentary it's something like
[02:16:44] that word a guy just put chalk that's all it was chalk and there he was like hey look protein powder
[02:16:49] sell it and either he found there was like there was no regulation saying he couldn't do it technically
[02:16:56] anyway this is the whole one thing nonetheless if you want for real ones it's actually not a bad
[02:17:01] product idea we could make protein powder that you can use as chalk so you could be chalking up and
[02:17:08] then eating yeah good no yeah yeah maybe you get on it to make the protein powder chalk up
[02:17:16] yeah that's that's a little bit different from what I was kind of saying but nonetheless if you
[02:17:22] go to on it dot com slash juggle you can get 10% off their their supplements anyway my point
[02:17:27] being with that story is that their supplements are all like legit and you can even read like about
[02:17:32] it like their peel oil I said this before I feel like I said this before but you can see like how
[02:17:38] they harvest them they use like eco friendly boats like it's like it's basically the ones you want
[02:17:44] to go boats no like the engines are like eco friendly and you know like that kind of stuff
[02:17:49] anyway I was watching it you can get it dusted on there but yeah all legit warrior bars
[02:17:54] I feel like we haven't really talked about it in by the way I got asked by somebody on Twitter the
[02:17:59] other day what you know hey my joints are hurting what I take take roll oil that's it man take
[02:18:03] roll oil yeah I've been using kerala oil for a really long time I'm 44 years old I'm almost 45
[02:18:10] years old actually and my joints are doing solid and knock on wood you know I had some joint pain
[02:18:19] in the past and when I started taking kerala oil I'm talking 10 maybe even longer years ago
[02:18:28] the it's I definitely attributed to helping me and also also the one goes to me yeah
[02:18:34] so and that's saying a lot because your big you're a big guy 235 not exactly flexible
[02:18:43] I'm not the most flexible person and I do like that heavy duty stuff I mean get after it
[02:18:52] not as much as I want to and not as much as I should but I try I try to to work out hard
[02:19:00] I train to jitsu I surf I run I sprint I just do all kinds of activities and before
[02:19:08] up until several years ago I was in the military I was in the sealed teams and I was running around
[02:19:15] doing all that crap for my whole life and so yeah I would say order up some kerala oil
[02:19:22] but just saying just doing jitsu alone especially as much as you do it that alone old young whatever
[02:19:29] just doing and you're like my joints are fine if you're in that situation to about that alone yeah
[02:19:35] and and the kerala oil for sure and also I believe that working out period is very helpful
[02:19:42] in staying injury free because I always work out and therefore I'm always moving and therefore
[02:19:48] my joints are getting rusty you know but do both right do both yeah I do get injured you know
[02:19:56] I had the finger injury which is a better now pretty good right now I had I had my shoulder got
[02:20:03] tweaked a little bit yeah but that's the situation that's not me from rolling yeah and that's not
[02:20:08] the kind hey I should have took more krill oil yeah it's not that it's like when you wake up or when
[02:20:13] you when you're like hey I'm gonna go out you start working I don't know I got to warm up some more
[02:20:16] some more you know and I take just FYI I take three of the 500
[02:20:23] milligram would be capsules morning and three at night so that's a lot of thousand a day
[02:20:29] yeah dang well hey there you go then do that then I mean like I said you're a big tank that needs more
[02:20:36] krill oil anyway yeah it's good and from on it you know you're getting like the good the good on
[02:20:41] yeah you know it's not getting the clean stuff mass manufactured you know the one from the
[02:20:48] corner store krill yeah man it's good and you get 10% off which is on it on a slash jockel
[02:20:55] and you're supporting this podcast oh it's a win-win-win yeah yeah and speaking of
[02:21:00] supporting this podcast Amazon dot com click through it might be the best way I don't know if it's
[02:21:08] the best way I would say it's another way yeah which is very effective which has definitely
[02:21:16] helped support the podcast yeah and it doesn't cost anything it's real easy to do you just click
[02:21:22] yeah yeah that's good yeah the key thing to down is remembering it remembering to do it
[02:21:28] true true yeah true we got that so go on the chrome extension true virtual chrome extension
[02:21:33] if you haven't put that on your browser and you do want to support the podcast through the Amazon
[02:21:37] situation put that on there it's easy makes it like super easy efficient aggressive active
[02:21:44] and efficient yes not pass like your attitude you know you can support that way and then um
[02:21:50] obviously the podcast is subscribed on iTunes and the YouTube which I'm putting more videos on there
[02:21:55] starting to and it's gonna pick up too I got it some more content I'm gonna put up for sure and then
[02:22:02] the jockel store if you like shirts and whatnot if you like them get one of those and we have women's coming
[02:22:10] out is there anything else you have coming out yeah it's a secret yeah yeah
[02:22:19] you know it yeah okay okay well if you're signed up for the if you're enlisted in the
[02:22:26] what is it the insider you mail yeah and find out what else is out there yeah what else is coming
[02:22:32] what else is on the horizon yeah because we've had a lot of people ask for this item
[02:22:37] what give me hint right for you yeah if you do jiu jitsu rashcards
[02:22:44] or something now don't do jiu jitsu and they still wear rashcards for like working out yeah working out
[02:22:50] or or diving yeah or or surfing or surfing or surfing yeah originally for yeah yeah fully I use
[02:22:56] surfing rashcard a lot of times for jiu jitsu yeah but yeah the rashcards coming out and then if you
[02:23:01] if you're into the ghee yeah some patches too oh you got the patches coming out you know
[02:23:06] you're gonna get cool basic the way we like them but yeah anyway jockel store dot com that's
[02:23:12] so you can see all the stuff and yeah if you if you want to be on the insider's list we don't
[02:23:17] spam people or send you like stuff just for the sake of sending stuff I don't do that in fact
[02:23:24] that kind of understand stuff yeah people don't want to be bothered if if you're going to send
[02:23:30] something make it be important yeah at least something that I honestly think that you'll be
[02:23:35] interested yes yeah honestly I'm gonna put some thought into that so yeah there it is that's the
[02:23:40] list now in the very very near future like I'm talking maybe a week sure and it's by early
[02:23:49] September 2016 you will be able to order jockel like tea mama granted and you'll be able to order
[02:23:57] it from amazon which is good to go and I got my first batch in and it's not coming drinking a little
[02:24:04] bit of that stuff right now yeah and it's it definitely puts you in the zone
[02:24:12] low place I like to call the assault zone it gets you there so look for it this is you know if
[02:24:18] you heard that first podcast with tempers and he was like what is this adrenaline field drink
[02:24:24] it was white tea and white tea is not loaded with caffeine there's other stuff in there there's magic
[02:24:30] in there there's antioxidants in there it tastes good and anyways so that's common you be able
[02:24:38] to order it we're kind of wondering I'm kind of wanting to see if people want jockel white tea
[02:24:43] I think they do yeah and we will find out shortly I know I do yeah it's that's the interesting thing
[02:24:52] because you know like just kind of on the surface we're like a fuck what's jockel into
[02:24:56] it's not like you know something creates like something it looks like it sounds kind of delicate you know
[02:25:04] white tea well when you see the can that it comes in it's not delicate it's not delicate it's weird
[02:25:09] because I was trying to think of where I discovered it and I actually don't know I actually can't
[02:25:13] remember how why drank it for the first time but when I started drinking I was like oh yeah this
[02:25:20] stuff feels good especially when you're under stress or there's a lack of sleep or
[02:25:25] you need to be mentally sharp it's the deal but you can mix white tea with it'll mess up the taste
[02:25:33] but you mix jockel white tea with elphabrine I've done it I've done it I've done it here in the podcast
[02:25:42] yeah it doesn't mess up the taste it tastes good dang all right well the white tea is is a
[02:25:49] it's not like this super harsh taste it's a it's a it's a not mild because you can taste it
[02:25:55] you can kind of feel it too light yeah it's a light but heavy it's a I don't even know how to describe it
[02:26:01] it's just not it's not a heavy taste yeah so you can mix it with a lot of stuff and you can like I
[02:26:08] said you can be able to get that on Amazon so you click through the get it on Amazon you can also go
[02:26:13] and get by the little book called extreme ownership when you're there yeah and you can get that anywhere
[02:26:20] they wear the sell books you can buy the hardcover you can buy digital audio format which my brother
[02:26:26] life babbin and I actually read you can get it for your people up and down the chain of command your
[02:26:32] friends family whoever does it you think needs to get on board with the program get him a copy that's kind of
[02:26:38] a good initiator form and also October 20th and 21st in San Diego we are having the extreme ownership
[02:26:48] mustard that is also life babbin and myself we're gonna be getting granular granular with the
[02:26:56] combat leadership lessons that we learned on the battlefield and how you apply those lessons in your
[02:27:04] business and in your life now that event is going to be extremely interactive it's more
[02:27:17] knocking behind behind the curtain we're gonna be out front with the troops if you got questions
[02:27:22] we are gonna answer them if you got something you need we're gonna talk about it if you got a
[02:27:28] problem we're gonna come up with a solution I say we because we we're gonna work together we're
[02:27:33] gonna learn I can't wait to see how much I'm gonna learn with the the list of people that are
[02:27:37] coming is awesome it every industry you can imagine every level of leadership you can imagine it's
[02:27:44] just it's really gonna be fired up and late for an iron hammer out the schedule and there's so much
[02:27:51] material and so much good information and so much good content it's gonna be awesome and I cannot
[02:27:56] wait to kick it off all right is you just a part of this schedule you just to is not on the schedule
[02:28:04] but what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna basically have a due to situation happening at the gym so the
[02:28:10] event is Thursday Friday so maybe it's gonna be Wednesday night if people come in early maybe it's
[02:28:15] gonna be Saturday if people want to stay or Sunday if you want to stay the weekend yeah so
[02:28:20] or just have them like where they're like you know welcome come to the gym you know like these
[02:28:25] yeah or maybe I just maybe I could just bring some mats to the hotel and do some kind of a
[02:28:31] but no then we got a gym is way better because it's like that it's you know one of the best
[02:28:36] got to do some of the gym so yeah if you want to get the jjitsu together we we're going to get the
[02:28:41] gym and I train jjitsu and San Diego I'm training so we'll be in San Diego we will be training
[02:28:46] we might not be able to do it Thursday night because it's a packed schedule doesn't end
[02:28:52] until late at night but either Wednesday night or probably probably once the monsters over because
[02:29:01] head into the monster I'm gonna be like yeah actually I think we're gonna I haven't event
[02:29:05] earlier in the week so probably gonna be the weekend if you want if you want to get your jjitsu on
[02:29:10] stay the weekend yeah yeah after noon get a red eye flight back to these coaster whatever
[02:29:15] and or if you're out here just go home Sunday night and that's kind of just mustard no mustard
[02:29:23] people come in and they're like hey I want to come in that gym yeah the guys have come
[02:29:26] this good max I just just met him and his girlfriend is away for I forget if they're married
[02:29:31] but they came in and he was like yeah you know I just came in whatever so yeah people just come in
[02:29:38] and they just let him in too of course yeah yeah also hey look I know that the monster is expensive
[02:29:47] and in this situation guess what it costs money to put it on it costs money for the hotel room
[02:29:52] the event the event room the food the AV equipment the security logistics all that stuff
[02:29:59] it costs money and the reason that we're investing in it is because we want it to be the best
[02:30:06] we want it to be the best event that you have ever been to that's what I want that's all
[02:30:13] and but that does cost money and so if you can't afford to come out to it you know what
[02:30:21] I apologize the but the podcast is free the book is 20 bucks
[02:30:25] get what you can out of that but if you can afford to come out come on out because you being there
[02:30:36] is gonna make us all better because every single person that look I get so many responses on Twitter
[02:30:43] I get so many stuff so much stuff through through the social media that I'm learning
[02:30:49] from everyone here so anybody that can come out and participate and ask that question or give
[02:30:54] that scenario or give that piece of input is gonna make us all better so come on out and get some
[02:31:02] and as always if you want to continue this conversation you know where you can find us
[02:31:13] all up on the interwebs Twitter Instagram and that Facebookie bohaha
[02:31:19] it's echo at echo Charles and I am at Jocca Willink and finally to you to those of you out there
[02:31:34] in the battle our military guys you know I rack and in Syria fighting against a truly evil
[02:31:43] and abhorrent enemy stay sharp stay focused and be aggressive it'll keep you alive to the police
[02:31:57] officers who are suffering through a hard times right now verbal and physical attacks
[02:32:06] I'm gonna tell you take the high ground in both of those cases detach from that negativity and
[02:32:16] do your job to the best your ability be smart and stay safe and of course the firefighters
[02:32:24] and the emergency medical teams that keep us safe keep us healthy and come to us in our
[02:32:35] time of need you all stay vigilant and train hard and to the rest of you troopers out there
[02:32:46] all over the world doing what you are doing make sure you do that thing with every ounce of effort
[02:32:55] you got and make sure you stay on the war path and get after it
[02:33:08] so until next time this is echo and jockel out