Jocko Podcast 368: Marc Lee's Story. w/ Gold Star Mother, Debbie "Momma" Lee.

2023-01-18T00:00:10Z

Americas Mighty Warriors: http://www.americasmightywarriors.org Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @americasmighty @AmericasMightyW Mother of Navy SEAL, Marc Alan Lee. First SEAL killed in Iraq. Debbie Lee shares who Marc was, how he was raised, and the sacrifice of Gold Star Families. AmericasMightyWarriors.org.

AI summary of episode

Consider that right, where if you have something physically damaged on your brain, and that's causing this very specific behavior or whatever, like going to some other treatment that doesn't address the physical injury won't, doesn't seem like, I don't know, like, like you, I'm not a scientist, but that part still makes sense, you know, where, like, if, if you're in a spiraling thought pattern, that's different than if your brain is physically damaged, like, you know, like, you know, you hear football, we know football players where like, they had literally said, hey, I'm going to commit suicide, I'm not going to shoot myself in the head because I want you to study my brain. And so then the reality of the language barrier and just some of their customs and, but I think he, you know, pretty well protected us to really know the extent of, you know, he'd say I'm going out on a mission, but, you know, and I know at one point he did say that, you know, the numbers that you guys were, you were at from your missions, which is way more than other, you know, SEAL teams had been doing for the number of missions, but I don't think I completely understood. And, you know, soccer field and Ramadi, you know, tradeup building, you know, that was named after Mark on the base, you know, movies, books, you know, and I know we've been up to Mark's grave before and I said, man, that's the hardest thing to see your kid's name on a headstone. You know, we see your picture, you know, the tough, you know, knuckle-dragger kind of, you know, and that's not who, you know, and you're always the square, you know, face when you're doing, or whatever the thing is. And when you hear about like, Okay, so Mark's, you know, his first dad, or his biological dad's not around his, his stepdad comes in, he kills himself, like you, you can almost formulate in your mind, and there's not much money and there's like stuff going on, you formulate in your mind, this picture of this guy who must be, you know, kind of closed down, kind of angry, kind of rough, and like, it's just the absolute complete opposite. And, you know, whenever I'm talking to someone like, like personally talking to someone that wants to know about Chris, if I know them, you know, having a conversation with a little more depth. You know, the one story I always tell people about Chris is that when at the memorial service we did for Mark in Ramadi, like, you know, guys got up and talked and, you know, read things or, you know, told little anecdotal stories about Mark. And, you know, the way things happened, George Montsour, you know, they had that book come out, and, you know, we were talking, and I was like, you know, come on the podcast, and as soon as I got done, we were recording with him. Well, yeah, and that's like, you know, that's again, that's why it was really hard for me to say, you know, what I got to do this, and it was George Montsour and Mikey, you know, pushing me over the edge, because I know it's super emotional, obviously, and if it's emotional for me, I can't even imagine how emotional it is for you guys. And you know, I would, you know, if I wasn't going out or not, I, you know, as the vehicles were lined up, I'd go out like, you know, make sure everyone's good to go. So, you know, but he just realized this is what I'm supposed to do, you know, and like I told him, if you do not do him, God designed you do, you're going to come home and kick the dog and your wife and you're going to be fighting all the time or your girlfriend or, you know, you need to be where you're supposed to be. Like, even if he said something that normally would have made someone rage with anger, the way he would say it and the way he would laugh about it and the way he would shrug his shoulders and, you know, raise his eyebrows like, Hey, you know, as a matter of fact, there's a video of Mark and he's like doing something in a car. And so to see that impact, you know, to continue to be, even if that were only one time, mission accomplished, woohoo, but to see that continue to happen over and over and over and, you know, I know yesterday as we're at the funeral, there's, you know, so many more of our guys that this has caused things to surface in them. So I would make, you know, the spelling, the English, everything, you know, math, you know, let's figure out how much, you know, gallons of fuel you're going to need for and make it relatable. You know, I'm not thinking about me or how, you know, looking ahead, you know, I'm downward looking going, okay, I got to feed them, I got to get closed, we got to be here, we got to go there. But you know, at the same time, it doesn't change the fact that it's like a tragic loss or whatever, but it's like it's spawned like that sacrifice like spawned so many other good things that literally wouldn't happen. So, you know, you could reach out and say, you know, here's the circumstance, you know, their child has cancer and, you know, they need somebody to take care of their other kids. He had no morals, you know, he put all the waterways around his palaces because he figured that, you know, Allah wouldn't be able to see his sin if he, you know, put the water around him like, well, you don't think your God's big enough to look right down at what you're doing. And I guess there's some people, I've heard some people say like, you actually know, like you actually know if you're going to make it or not. And like, we're, we're at, we're sitting there playing blackjack and like, it's, we're, you know, guys are starting to peel off and like, Hey, we're going to the club because they're putting most of the guys are single. I know it's weird for me because when we got back, like I had friends tell me, I wasn't thinking about this, but like guys in the SEAL teams, they were reading the after actions reports that would come out every day and it'd be like, oh, this engage this many gunfight here. And like I said, I never tell all this all at once, but you think back through it, you know, like, oh my gosh, how did any of us, you know, turn out. He must have gotten away with, he must have gotten away with pretty much anything because so interestingly, when he rolled in, so he's, so he's automatically like, I think one of the first things he said was like, I can't be choked out, you know, like, I can't be choked out. And of course, he felt like that was his fault that we lost Mark that if he could have been there, you know, he could have saved Mark and like I've told so many others, there was somebody bigger in control that day, you know, that not that God caused Mark's death at all. And, you know, in the game, I'm like, Hey, Mark, Mark, look, look, and he's just, you know, nonchalantly drinking his beer and acting like, okay, whatever, no big deal. And they said, exactly, you know, and almost a panic, you know, here we got another one, you know, we thought we were good for a while. Then like one time they're, they're, they bring in other dealers, like they want to cool down the table, like they bring in a cooler and Mark would be like, Oh, they think they're bringing in the ice man. It's like, think of the reset that you get by, I don't know if I should use this term, a freaking 40-day vacation where you get to get this awesome treatment, you get good food, you got stress removed from your life, and it's like a reset on people's minds. He trained to make a difference in the world and, you know, to get rid of the evil that's out there, you know, for our family, for America, for everyone that lives here, you know, because he knew it was the right thing to do. You know, I think we had lost, you know, now looking back at it, you know, Operation Red Wing was just the year before. And I think, you know, you're, that's, that's who God designed you to be, you know, you can't be a class clown if you're, that's not in you, you know, you could drive as a back to back champion of class, which is no surprise at all. They were like, we knew you guys were freaking out after they were like, they would read them at the morning meeting, like everyone sit down, like read them aloud. You know, he's talking about Saddam about, you know, the man who cares nothing, you know, about moral life. And that's where, you know, my mission was, was these kids and loving on them and, you know, helping their parents raise them and be the best they can, you know, when the parents couldn't be there. And so, you know, some of those things that I interpreted, you know, sexual relationship as love, which it wasn't, you know? You know, and you, you know, I think it was late for was the one I'm like, you guys go back out there. And so finally, I'm like expecting Mark to get up and go, you know, I'm like, Hey, man, what are you going to the club with those guys? I'm like, Who is this Jocko willing guy that you know, even the admiral when we went in the day before the funeral was, you know, talking about Jocko willing and that you are crucial and getting the Silver Star award for him. So anyway, the point, and the point there is where that's not a spiraling thought pattern that's just, you know, getting in the way of his like, family life, his health, causing him to like, hey, maybe drinking will kind of leave, leave these thoughts and keeping them up at night or whatever. You know, Christopher, my oldest, he'd been the little man, you know, and he struggled and felt like because he wasn't the little man anymore, he wasn't loved. But if I know anything, I know God doesn't waste pain, you know. And it's because, you know, well, you know, in my opinion, from what I saw, the school system was built by girl, by women, and it was very well suited for girls, meaning sit at the desk and like do these things. And, and, you know, that scene of coming out of Charlie Med and seeing all those soldiers and Marines just lined up and, you know, that's like, sometimes people will attempt to bait me into saying something negative about the army of the Marine Corps and they can't do it. And then, you know, there's other things you can do, and then eventually you get to a point where you're like, okay, like, I got some friends, they're at the end of the rope. You know, and that's why for me, I want to know what are those things you don't like? She's kind of like, you know, the kind where she's just so happy to see everyone, you know?

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocko podcast number 368 with echo Charles than me. Jocko willing. Good evening echo. Good evening
[00:00:08] It was another day
[00:00:11] We had been here just over three months and it was already a
[00:00:19] historical deployment
[00:00:22] The task unit was well known by everyone in Ramadi
[00:00:25] We had pushed the envelope and taken huge risks to aggressively destroy the enemy
[00:00:32] Who was ruthless and evil?
[00:00:35] They killed innocent men women and children beheaded local tribal leaders and
[00:00:41] Implanted roadside bombs that killed and maimed American soldiers and Marines
[00:00:48] We had already killed well over a hundred of these demonic enemy fighters and in doing so
[00:00:53] Saved hundreds of American soldiers and Marines
[00:00:59] But it was a tough fight
[00:01:02] Brave warriors courageous soldiers and Marines died every day
[00:01:07] from enemy sniper attacks
[00:01:09] IEDs and every other weapon you could imagine including mortars RPGs and heavy machine guns
[00:01:17] Valiantly these brave soldiers and Marines fought on day after day
[00:01:22] week after week
[00:01:25] Month after bloody month
[00:01:30] We had also suffered some casualties
[00:01:33] The most serious of which was Kaui who had been shot in the leg severely wounding it during one of our first operations
[00:01:42] Even as he lay in bed his leg torn apart from hip to knee not knowing if he would ever walk again
[00:01:48] He pulled me in close and whispered to me so the doctors wouldn't hear please. Let me stay please
[00:01:59] He wanted to be with his brothers
[00:02:04] Our other casualties were relatively minor
[00:02:08] We were blessed
[00:02:11] Especially when compared to some of the other units that we were there with who had lost dozens of men
[00:02:16] One army battalion had arrived and lost seven men during their first 36 hours worth of patrols
[00:02:25] Another army company had lost a third of its strength in five months of fighting
[00:02:32] We had been lucky blessed and lucky
[00:02:39] Aggressiveness on the battlefield certainly helped our luck
[00:02:41] We fought hard and brought destruction to the enemy
[00:02:46] We forcefully pushed into areas where the enemy was in control
[00:02:50] We went in where a quick reaction force might not have been able to help get us
[00:02:57] The enemy was not ready for this
[00:03:00] They had not been attacked so boldly and mercilessly
[00:03:04] We snuck in at night off of boats or in the day with conventional forces
[00:03:09] We hid in buildings next to their strongholds. We killed them as they slinked towards our positions
[00:03:14] We surrounded their neighborhoods without them knowing and killed them as they prepared attacks on American troops
[00:03:24] The American commanders knew this and love the seals because we were helping to keep their brave men alive
[00:03:32] Our aggressive tactics and high number of enemy kills earned us an incredible reputation
[00:03:42] The soldiers and Marines thought we were unbelievable on the battlefield efficient killers that had barely taken any casualties
[00:03:49] We were indestructible killing machines there to save our fellow Americans and destroy the enemies of our nation
[00:04:01] That was their impression
[00:04:05] But there was fear
[00:04:08] Self-preservation is a natural instinct and is very powerful
[00:04:12] Fear is one of the most important tools for self-preservation and it exists on some level at every man
[00:04:22] But this fear was overcome by courage, camaraderie and faith
[00:04:31] Mark was one of the greatest examples of these qualities
[00:04:37] He showed his courage consistently by leading from the front
[00:04:40] Always in the front of patrols ready to fight and defend his brothers
[00:04:45] His camaraderie was always evident as he joked with everyone smiling and laughing
[00:04:50] Even as he was about to walk onto the battlefield and even on the battlefield itself
[00:04:58] He was truly loved by all
[00:05:02] Finally the depth of his faith was immeasurable
[00:05:05] He had an unbelievably strong relationship with God and this was reflected in his love for his family
[00:05:11] who were always with him
[00:05:14] In his heart and on his mind
[00:05:19] Mark's qualities helped soothe the fears of everyone around him
[00:05:23] His spirit was contagious and it spread and comforted all of us
[00:05:30] He was a pillar of courage
[00:05:32] And so fear was defeated
[00:05:35] And mission after mission would result in the deaths of dozens of insurgents and continued success for the seals
[00:05:42] as we, alongside our conventional forced brothers, fought to win back the city from the wretched, murderous insurgents
[00:05:53] But the fighting was hard
[00:05:55] I was in the Tactical Operations Center the morning of August 2nd 2006
[00:06:03] Ryan had been wounded and was already being flown to Belod for further medical attention
[00:06:11] We did not know at this time how severe his wounds would be, but we were thankful he was still alive
[00:06:16] The city had erupted in violence and the Army unit we had fought alongside for the last few months
[00:06:23] was in the midst of a very tough battle
[00:06:25] They believed they had identified where some insurgents were located
[00:06:31] Lath called me and gave me an update on the situation
[00:06:34] He told me their Iraqi Army partners had been involved in the war
[00:06:38] and they were in the middle of a very tough battle
[00:06:41] They called me and gave me an update on the situation, he told me their Iraqi Army partners were too scared to fight
[00:06:51] Then Lath said, we're going back out
[00:06:55] I knew that this was a bold statement and that violent contact with the enemy was imminent
[00:07:02] I replied simply, Roger, get some
[00:07:05] This reply was not senseless bravado
[00:07:08] It was a statement of fact, encouragement and trust
[00:07:11] Fact, because there was a vicious firefight and as proud fighting men wrought with a strong sense of duty
[00:07:18] they all knew it was their duty to join the fight, no matter how dire the situation
[00:07:24] Encouragement, because we regularly use this term to motivate ourselves and each other during trying times
[00:07:31] and finally trust because I did not have to question what Lath and his platoon were doing
[00:07:36] I didn't need to counsel him on their plan or inquire about his tactical decisions
[00:07:41] No, they had proven themselves to be a great combat unit
[00:07:44] and I trusted them to perform with honor and professionalism on the battlefield
[00:07:53] I now focused my attention on the flat screen televisions in the Tactical Operations Center
[00:07:58] A live video feed was coming in from aircraft monitoring the battle
[00:08:03] The picture was fading in and out and was difficult to see
[00:08:06] but I followed as tanks fired at buildings and cars and soldiers maneuvered in the streets
[00:08:13] I watched the two Bradley fighting vehicles left combat outpost Falcon
[00:08:21] I knew they were filled with seals
[00:08:23] I watched as the Bradleys stopped at one building, engaged it and then stood by while the seals assaulted
[00:08:32] The seals were on small radio so I couldn't hear them
[00:08:35] and said I listened on the radio as the conventional company commander Captain Mike Baima
[00:08:39] passed information about the situation to his battalion commander
[00:08:42] My brother's seals looked unbelievably good
[00:08:45] I was able to see the battle and I was able to see the battle
[00:08:48] The battle was over, I got to work on the building, the honor of the soldier
[00:08:57] My brother's seals looked unbelievably smooth, fast and aggressive
[00:09:00] as they stormed the suspected enemy building
[00:09:06] I felt proud
[00:09:09] After a few minutes they exited that building and reboarded the Bradleys
[00:09:12] which then took them to another building
[00:09:14] Soon the seals entered another building, again looking smooth and aggressive.
[00:09:20] I couldn't believe how good my guys were, so professional, so bold, so glorious.
[00:09:31] Then, a minute later, I saw two seals carrying a motionless man quickly out of the building.
[00:09:40] My heart sunk.
[00:09:48] We have a man down, I said to the tactical operations center.
[00:09:53] Maybe it's an Iraqi soldier someone suggested. No, they had no Iraqis with them. It's one of ours.
[00:10:03] The room got extremely quiet. I focused on the radio and listened for details.
[00:10:09] Mike Baymo is working to get the casualty to Charlie Med, the medical facility on Camp Romadi.
[00:10:14] I still couldn't hear lay for any of the seals.
[00:10:20] Then I heard Mike Baymo say, I need to get this KIA moved.
[00:10:28] KIA killed in action.
[00:10:30] I gave the River City order, Navy speak for shutting down all external communications.
[00:10:39] I told the person posting operational updates to stop writing.
[00:10:46] The tactical operations center watched in silence as the rest of the seals finished
[00:10:51] securing the target building, then left loading back on the Bradley's.
[00:10:55] The Bradley's headed back toward combat outpost Falcon.
[00:11:06] Soon, Leif got on one of the base station radio and called Red Bull six. This is Red Bull one six.
[00:11:14] I keyed up the radio Red Bull one six. This is Red Bull six go.
[00:11:18] Leif with so much emotion in his voice that it almost sounded emotionless said we had another casualty.
[00:11:30] I think he's KIA.
[00:11:36] This radio net was monitored by the entire brigade, so we were both doing our best to remain
[00:11:40] professional. Also to prevent names of casualties from leaking out. We do not use names on the radio.
[00:11:47] Instead, everyone is assigned a platoon number, which consists of a letter for their platoon
[00:11:53] and a number that indicates who they are.
[00:11:58] We keep the platoon numbers in the tactical operations center on a board.
[00:12:04] I responded to Leif, Roger, who is the casualty?
[00:12:08] There was a pause and then he responded slowly and clearly. Charlie won four.
[00:12:28] I looked up at the board slowly.
[00:12:32] I didn't want to see the name,
[00:12:33] but there it was. Charlie won four.
[00:12:41] Mark Lee.
[00:12:47] I couldn't believe it. Our pillar of courage and faith that seemed impossible.
[00:12:56] I asked Leif to confirm.
[00:12:59] Can you confirm with his initials?
[00:13:01] Leif replied, Roger,
[00:13:08] Mike Lima,
[00:13:12] Roger. I replied.
[00:13:20] Mark was gone.
[00:13:25] It was pure devastation.
[00:13:26] We had lost one of our brothers and one of our pillars of courage.
[00:13:41] Everyone in Ramadi that wasn't actively fighting
[00:13:44] showed up later that night to see Mark onto the helicopter for his final flight home.
[00:13:57] It was late at night and the path from the medical building to the airfield
[00:14:02] was lined with sailors, soldiers, Marines and airmen.
[00:14:06] The forces we worked alongside were also completely distraught by Mark's death.
[00:14:18] They thought we were indestructible.
[00:14:22] Now they realized we were flesh and blood like them.
[00:14:30] Many of them knew Mark. They remembered him.
[00:14:33] Now they all knew he was flesh and blood like them, but that made his courage and spirit all the
[00:14:43] more profound.
[00:14:51] Charlie won four. Mark Lee.
[00:14:52] Mark will always be remembered not just as a man, a seal, a husband, a brother, a son,
[00:15:06] but as a hero who personified love, faith and courage and one who inspires us all.
[00:15:17] We will never forget the gift that God gave to us. Mark Lee who touched us so briefly,
[00:15:29] but so deeply.
[00:15:34] He will be with us forever.
[00:15:36] Mark Lee's mom, Debbie Lee, who we call momily, and I wrote it to share with her what Mark meant
[00:16:02] to us and one perspective of what had transpired the day that he was killed.
[00:16:16] And momily was unbelievably strong when Mark died and during our initial calls to her
[00:16:24] where we called with the intent of offering her support and sympathy and comfort.
[00:16:36] It was actually the opposite that took place.
[00:16:40] It was she who comforted us.
[00:16:47] It was momily that was asking how is everyone doing? Is there anything that you guys need?
[00:16:51] I am praying for all of you. She was so strong.
[00:17:01] And she still is.
[00:17:05] But it certainly has not been easy. The loss of a child is unimaginable to everyone.
[00:17:13] And yet somehow she has endured and she set an example for all of us to follow.
[00:17:23] And it's an honor to have her with us here tonight to share with her, share with us some
[00:17:30] of her experiences and her lessons learned and also to share the story of the warrior and hero
[00:17:38] that she raised, Mark Lee. Momily, thanks for joining us.
[00:17:46] You bet. Thanks for having me. And I remember when you sent that to me and the impact
[00:17:53] that it made when I read that. And obviously it's been 16 and a half years since we lost Mark.
[00:18:00] And still, when you read that, you know, I got a, you know, bump in my throat and
[00:18:04] making sure I keep it together here. But I know how much you guys loved Mark and I know how much
[00:18:12] that burden that you guys carry. And as you've heard me often say, you know, Mark was my kid who
[00:18:19] loved to give gifts. I mean, he would spend hours. It wasn't a bag it and tag it, get out of here,
[00:18:25] check mission accomplished. He would spend hours looking for just the perfect gift.
[00:18:31] And he would be so stinking excited when he got that gift. And I remember at Christmas time,
[00:18:36] he'd bought me a set of gold flatware, not solid gold, but golden color. And it matched my China
[00:18:42] perfectly. I had a gold rim around my white China. And he was so excited. And he came home and he had
[00:18:47] it wrapped in the store. And he came home and he's like, Mom, wait until you see what I got for you.
[00:18:53] I'm like, Oh, cool. Thanks, honey. And he goes, You got to open it now, Mom. I'm like, No, put it
[00:18:58] under the tree. Oh, and I haven't seen it open Christmas day if you don't put it under there.
[00:19:02] And he started to rip the package open because he couldn't wait. He was so excited at what he had
[00:19:08] found. And he knew that it would be something that would please me. And he ripped it open and showed
[00:19:14] it to me. And I realized after he passed away, he tried to explain the brotherhood thing to me
[00:19:20] before. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I get it. You're close to these guys. But as close as your brother
[00:19:25] you grew up with for 28 years. He's like, Yeah, mom, that close. And I joked and I said, Well,
[00:19:31] let me mind you, I didn't birth them. So they really can't be your brothers. And we left it at that.
[00:19:36] And I had, you know, five of his friends, I mean, you guys were all still deployed, but some of us
[00:19:41] a swim buddy and some others that first week, you know, when he had been killed that were in our
[00:19:45] house. And I saw, Oh my gosh, they love Marcus as much as we do. And they're hurting just as bad as
[00:19:51] we are. And I remember, I think, you know, the first time officially that I had told the Charlie
[00:19:57] boys was I had met with President Bush in October of 2006. And I was telling them all about you guys,
[00:20:05] I had the team picture there. You know, and I remember even saying in Jocko Willings there,
[00:20:09] he goes, Well, I've heard that name before. Jocko willing. I'm like, Who is this Jocko willing
[00:20:13] guy that you know, even the admiral when we went in the day before the funeral was, you know,
[00:20:17] talking about Jocko willing and that you are crucial and getting the Silver Star award for him.
[00:20:22] And typically that takes a while. And yet we had it for the funeral was presented posthumously to
[00:20:28] us. But my final gift was you guys, you know, and he intended for me to open that immediately and
[00:20:37] get to know you guys. And that's why when you're deployed, it was, you know, we had phone calls.
[00:20:41] It wasn't just that first one, you know, we emailed back and forth, I got the team picture,
[00:20:46] and I put names on it so I could learn the faces. So when you guys came home, and
[00:20:51] that was Mark's final gift to me. And I knew it was a special gift in the beginning.
[00:20:58] But man, it is a priceless gift that you guys have been to me and to our mission
[00:21:03] at America's Mighty Warriors. And I love you guys. And so blessed to have you in my life. So
[00:21:09] I know sometimes that gift is a little bit more than you want. When it was the timing of things,
[00:21:19] the way things happen. General Brown, who is the SOCOM commander. So he was the four star general
[00:21:26] in charge of all of special operations. He came to Ramadi on August 2nd on a VIP visit. He was
[00:21:35] touring all of his, all of, you know, the troops, the special operations troops around the world.
[00:21:40] And he came to Ramadi on August 2nd. He got there probably around lunchtime.
[00:21:47] And he stayed. And he actually was one of the people on the flight line. And, you know, I was,
[00:21:55] I had worked for Admiral McGuire. And Admiral McGuire, General Brown had left. And then he had
[00:22:03] sent an email to Admiral McGuire. And Admiral McGuire forwarded the email to me. And it was a
[00:22:07] beautiful email. And he basically described the situation of what he had seen of, you know, the
[00:22:14] hundreds of soldiers and Marines that were outlining the runway and or lining the pathway to the runway.
[00:22:20] And, you know, it's dark outside. There's cam lights along. And it's in a war zone.
[00:22:25] And he asked the question, you know, he said, all these guys are out here. And this guy who
[00:22:30] I've, you know, we told him about Mark, we told him as much as we could in a couple hours that he
[00:22:33] was there. And General Brown basically closed out the email with, where do we get such young men?
[00:22:44] And I think that's, you know, a great way to start off trying to figure out how you raised Mark,
[00:22:50] where he came from. Like, where did this guy who was willing to give so much. And it's interesting,
[00:22:58] you know, we just had George Montsoir on talking about Mikey. And oddly enough, one of the things
[00:23:03] that he mentioned was, Oh, Mikey loved to give gifts. He would, you know, even if he had to make
[00:23:09] them or find them out in the street and put together something, he loved to give gifts.
[00:23:13] And it's just incredible that here's Mark same way, same mentality. But to dig down, like,
[00:23:20] let's start with you a little bit. Where'd you grow up? What were what your parents do? What was
[00:23:25] going on with your life before before Mark came? Yeah, so I was born in Greeley, Colorado, which
[00:23:32] is about an hour north of Denver, kind of came in difficult circumstances. My mom at 17 had got
[00:23:39] pregnant with me. And there's two sides that I've heard the stories. I don't know which one's true,
[00:23:44] but for whatever reason, my mom ended up not marrying my biological father. And, you know,
[00:23:51] back then, that was something that was a terrible shame. And so you tried, you know, they sent the
[00:23:58] girls away for a while or and my grandmother and I think they were doing the best they could with
[00:24:04] who they were and what was handed to them. But my grandmother wanting to protect my mom and have me
[00:24:10] not born at a wedlock had my mom marry her boyfriend. So my mom's 17, this guy's 35. My mom told
[00:24:20] different personality than me. If that had been me, I'd be like, thank you very much. I'll raise
[00:24:23] this child by myself. I'm not marrying that old fart, you know, because it's 17. That's a huge
[00:24:28] difference. And it was just supposed to be, I guess, temporary, and then have the marriage
[00:24:33] in old afterwards. But that never happened. He was a police officer for the city of Greeley.
[00:24:39] And I didn't know any different as a child. Wait, did your grandma give away her boyfriend to the
[00:24:46] the? Yeah. That's cool. That's weird. Yes, very weird. That's what I said. It just, but again,
[00:24:52] I think with who they were, with the lack of education, they had what they thought would be
[00:25:00] a solution, right? You know, you're not going to really sleep whether you don't get any of those
[00:25:05] privileges, you're just going to get married then annul the marriage and. Okay, that's what they were
[00:25:10] trying to make up. Got it. Yeah, I think that's what you were born into. That's what I was born
[00:25:15] so then did you grow up with your 17 year old mom? I did. Yes. And what about brothers and sisters?
[00:25:22] I'm the only child for my biological dad. I hate it when people ask these questions sometimes
[00:25:27] because it is a very dysfunctional family. But again, I didn't know he wasn't my father until
[00:25:32] I was 16. So then they had twin sisters a year after I was born. One died within 12 hours of
[00:25:40] birth and one died in 24 hours of birth. So I didn't know them, you know, I knew growing up that
[00:25:44] there were twin sisters that had died. And then my mom and who I thought was my biological dad
[00:25:51] had my brother, Vance, who was two and a half years younger than me. And that's, you know,
[00:25:56] who I thought was my family and who I grew up with. My mom went through a divorce when I was
[00:26:00] about 11 and then got pregnant again and married the father of that baby. And I was kind of like
[00:26:08] a mom to him was 13 and my mom was trying to figure out life and she was struggling herself,
[00:26:13] you know. And so I was kind of his mama for a while. And then I left home when I was 16. So
[00:26:19] that was when I found out who my dad was. And that's kind of when things all just
[00:26:24] fell apart. So when you found out who your dad was, did that just cause a reaction to be like,
[00:26:28] all right, I'm out of here? Or did you go live with him? Did you track him down? What happened?
[00:26:32] I did track him down. Finally met him. And of course, when I was 11, I was five foot nine already.
[00:26:36] My mom was five foot six. My dad was five foot five. They're really worse than he tall relatives.
[00:26:41] And that's when you start studying, you know, the biology and your DNA. And I'm like,
[00:26:46] oh my some kind of freak that I met my dad. He was six foot four, as he tells me on the phone
[00:26:52] call and five foot on the other. He'd lost his leg in a tractor accident the year that I was born.
[00:26:59] And so because the circumstances, my mom and I were fighting when, you know,
[00:27:03] she told me about him. She said, you don't even know who your dad is, you know. And again,
[00:27:07] you go back to that hurt people want to hurt other people when they're hurting.
[00:27:12] Of course, being a little bit of rebel and strong will, I said, do you and courses
[00:27:17] whack up across the side of the face, you know, and that was disrespectful and not called for.
[00:27:22] But you know, that's a sensitive conversation that you sit down and you prepare for a conversation
[00:27:28] to tell somebody something like that, not in the moment of anger when you're fighting. So
[00:27:33] it cost a lot of problems, you know, between my mom and I. I did connect with my dad and started
[00:27:39] to kind of get to know him and found out I had another brother from the marriage he was in at
[00:27:44] the time, three siblings from his first marriage, and then he married again and she had several kids.
[00:27:50] So there's me, they're an only child or I come from a family 13. But again, I think that's and
[00:27:56] I don't want people at all to, you know, have a pity party for me. These as you go back to Mark
[00:28:02] and how he was raised, these tough circumstances in my life are what gave me the opportunity to
[00:28:09] persevere and not quit. And it's just like when you guys are going through your training at Buds,
[00:28:14] they push you to the limit to see what you can endure. And when you don't give up, when you
[00:28:20] persevere and when you have that attitude, man, that's what prepared me for the toughest day,
[00:28:25] August 2nd, you know, losing Mark, or then I knew I could still stand. I knew it would be tough.
[00:28:30] But those tragedies and trials that you go through in life, I love school, got good grades in school,
[00:28:37] I was a cheerleader in school, so I had a blast. I love school.
[00:28:40] So when you were 16, where'd you move out to?
[00:28:42] I went and lived with an aunt.
[00:28:44] And then, but you're still going to school?
[00:28:45] Still going to school.
[00:28:46] You're getting good grades.
[00:28:47] You're on a good path.
[00:28:49] Yeah.
[00:28:49] Are you thinking about going to college? What's what you're thinking about for your future?
[00:28:53] I didn't have real big goals at the time. I did get several scholarships that I turned down
[00:28:59] because I just wanted to be a wife and a mother. The school that I went to was, you know, a very
[00:29:06] poor part of town. I was one of the minorities, you know, it was primarily black and Hispanic in
[00:29:11] the school. And I was one of the oldest at 18. I got married just weeks after I turned 18.
[00:29:19] I was one of the oldest to not, you know, latest to get married or have kids. That was what our
[00:29:25] problem was.
[00:29:26] What was the population in your high school? Was it like a small town?
[00:29:28] Small. Well, no, it was in Denver. It was a suburb of Denver. There was probably 300
[00:29:33] in the total school.
[00:29:34] But everyone's just getting married.
[00:29:36] Well, or getting pregnant.
[00:29:37] Getting pregnant or getting married.
[00:29:39] Having babies, yeah.
[00:29:40] And you get married when you're 18 years old?
[00:29:41] I get married when I'm 18.
[00:29:43] And is this Mark's dad?
[00:29:44] This is all my kid's dad, yes. So, married at 18.
[00:29:47] And who was this dude?
[00:29:49] He was, you know, played on the football team. He was two years older than me.
[00:29:54] Because I didn't have that father figure growing up that really gave me love.
[00:29:59] I didn't know what love was. And I just wanted to be loved. And so, you know, some of those
[00:30:05] things that I interpreted, you know, sexual relationship as love, which it wasn't, you
[00:30:09] know? But that was the first time he used to walk three miles to my house every night to
[00:30:14] come see me, which I walk five miles a day. So I guess three miles isn't that big a deal.
[00:30:18] But back then it was. I was like, holy cow. That's a, you know, and I was like, okay, that's
[00:30:23] got to be what love is. And my mom forbid me to marry him. Like I said, I'm strong-willed.
[00:30:30] And he don't forbid a strong-willed person to do something because that just pushes them to
[00:30:36] prove to you. And literally, as a rebel, that was the reason that I married, you know, intended
[00:30:44] for it to be for life, you know, really thought that that's what would happen.
[00:30:48] So had he graduated from high school already?
[00:30:50] He had graduated from high school already.
[00:30:52] And what was he doing for a living?
[00:30:53] You know, the time, I don't remember what he was doing for a living. He had been in trouble.
[00:30:59] And back then he was a Marine and was because he'd been in trouble, they're like, here's your
[00:31:06] option. You go to jail or you go on the Marines. And so I didn't know the extent of all of that,
[00:31:13] you know, that that was the reason that he was in the Marines. But I think he had just recently,
[00:31:17] that would have been in 72, so probably just recently got out of the Marines.
[00:31:24] And so we married, had my first son Christopher when I was 20 and had my daughter at 21.
[00:31:31] And alcohol was something for him that was, he was an alcoholic, but Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde,
[00:31:39] when he drank and was very abusive and finally tried to kill me. And at 23, I said,
[00:31:45] and I think for me, my self-esteem was so bad back then. I felt like I deserved it.
[00:31:51] And I don't feel ever that that's the circumstance. I think the only time a guy should ever hurt a
[00:31:56] woman is she's trying to kill him, you know, and he's defending himself. But so it was,
[00:32:03] it was some tough, crazy times, you know, and I was going to persevere and show my mom I could
[00:32:08] make this work. But when it came to that point, he used to, he'd act like in the beginning,
[00:32:13] like he's going to throw a punch at me and he'd get right to my face. And then he'd bring his
[00:32:17] hand up to his nose and itch his nose. And he did that to Christopher at three years old. And I
[00:32:22] think that was for me, the holy crap. Maybe I deserved it, but my kids don't. And so it was at
[00:32:31] that point, you know, that I finally said, and we separated, we were together and apart and together
[00:32:36] and apart and together and apart. But at that point, I was like, I am done. This is not happening
[00:32:41] again. And because of all the violence in the marriage, the day that I filed for the divorce,
[00:32:45] it was final. And I found out two ex-ladars pregnant with Mark. And they heard two heartbeats
[00:32:51] the entire time. This was not when they did ultrasounds, you know, to find out early on,
[00:32:57] you know, where the health of the baby or the sex of the baby. And but they always heard two
[00:33:02] heartbeats. You knew Mark, he was like, okay, that's why my body had two heartbeats. But again,
[00:33:08] what a blessing. And it's such a dark time in my life. And you talked about his humor, you know,
[00:33:14] and the joy that he had. And even from a young age, such a smiley baby and giggly baby. And he
[00:33:21] would tell these knock, knock jokes. He was probably about four. And oh my gosh, chocolate, they were
[00:33:28] so bad. But he thought he was hilarious. And again, knowing Mark, you can piece this together. He'd
[00:33:34] be laying on the floor as a child, just laughing, laughing, laughing. And you couldn't help but laugh
[00:33:39] at him, you know, laughing at himself. And so then he thought he was really good. But got class
[00:33:46] clown two years in a row. And I'm like, and that's going to get you to college. How? But what a blessing
[00:33:53] and what a gift, you know, the struggles again, you know, that you go through in life, that we have
[00:33:59] a choice. And we can let that defeat us. Or we can overcome that. And with the perseverance,
[00:34:06] that's, you know, what I chose to do. I wasn't going to quit. I wasn't going to give up.
[00:34:10] You put up so much put up with so much in the marriage. But it sounds like the turning point
[00:34:15] was when you saw that your husband at the time might hurt your kids. And that was just like
[00:34:22] the breaking point, like I'm done with this. Now, what do you do when you're 23 years old,
[00:34:28] you're got two kids, and you got one on the way? Where'd you go? How do you how do you get through
[00:34:33] that? So I was working at started working for Tech Tonics, which is a manufacturer of
[00:34:40] equipment, different electronic equipment. And it was a little bit a little bit better
[00:34:45] paying job, but still not a good job. What were you doing for them? Just assembling
[00:34:50] just on the manufacturing line. And that's not me at all. I mean, I'm good at it. I was skilled.
[00:34:56] I could, you know, I think a kid of 10 to 40 hours is what they, you know, figured it should
[00:35:02] take you to build it. And I could build it in 36. And they're like, check her QC, she can't be doing
[00:35:06] this, right? But there was no challenge once I got that done, you know, I'm a very people person.
[00:35:11] So I need to do something where I feel like I'm making a difference in somebody's life and changing
[00:35:16] things. Had several jobs, you know, one point, I was working three jobs, 96 hours a week,
[00:35:22] was managing bank during the day. And I'm not sure when we went through the divorce,
[00:35:27] so I still work in one of the banks, but managing bank, tending bar at night,
[00:35:32] tending bar on the weekends, you know, just, just to take care of my kids, getting child support,
[00:35:38] you know, he didn't take him at all. He wasn't in their lives. Who's watching the kids when all
[00:35:42] this is going on? I had him either in home daycare or in a childcare center. But basically,
[00:35:50] the second job was to pay for the childcare. So yeah. And then so this is all taking place. Is
[00:35:56] this all taking place in Colorado still? Yeah, I'm still in Colorado at that point. And then
[00:36:01] will the kids start going to school? Do you do you get onto like a legit like a more regimented
[00:36:07] career path at some point? I would say it was probably 28. When I got a little more
[00:36:13] goal-oriented at that point, it was just survival. You know, I'm not thinking about me or how, you
[00:36:20] know, looking ahead, you know, I'm downward looking going, okay, I got to feed them, I got to get
[00:36:24] closed, we got to be here, we got to go there. And I was probably 28. Then when I had some health
[00:36:32] issues, and it's like, okay, what do I really want to do? What I want to be when I grow up?
[00:36:37] And that's when I, I loved flying. And I was like, you know what, I'm going back to school
[00:36:42] to be a pilot. And so at 28 with three little kids, I went back to school. Was it
[00:36:48] Metro State College? It's now a university in Denver, but and went back to school to become a pilot.
[00:36:54] And how'd that go? Well, it went really well until I fell and injured my back and could
[00:36:59] pass my first class medical. And again, that was, I mean, for my kids, they already had been through
[00:37:06] so much. And now I'm going to fly the friendly skies and someone else is going to raise them when
[00:37:10] I'm gone. And of course, I had fed myself the lies of it's not, you know, it's not the quantity of
[00:37:16] time that I spend with them, it's the quality. So if I'm only with them a couple of days, I'll
[00:37:20] make that be good days out of the month. And I think part of it, you know, I was so tired at that
[00:37:26] point of trying to maintain and do this all by myself, that it was kind of like, okay, that's my
[00:37:32] little escape. Yeah, you're like, maybe a four day trip with flying an airplane. All right,
[00:37:37] these old rascals out of my hair for who would have they been, you know,
[00:37:42] we wouldn't have had Mark being a Navy SEAL, you know, so did you make that connection? Like you
[00:37:47] hurt your back and then you're thinking, you know, what am I going to do? Am I really going to fly
[00:37:50] around the country while my kids are at? Yeah, I think it was after that point. That was for me.
[00:37:56] And I grew up in a Christian home. And, you know, accepted Christ as a child, but we didn't live it
[00:38:01] in our home. That wasn't taught to us with church on Sunday. But that was about it. But for me,
[00:38:06] that was when I completely surrendered my life. I had made a mess of my life. I had fought God,
[00:38:11] you know, I thought he wanted to make me this mamzy, Pamzy, wimpy, you know, have no backbone.
[00:38:17] I'm like, I ain't going there. And because I had made such a mess, I literally spent three months on
[00:38:23] my back where I couldn't hardly roll over. And they didn't know if I'd walk again. And like,
[00:38:28] the only place I could look was up. I'm like, Oh, you were trying to get my attention, weren't
[00:38:32] you? You used a two by four and I ignored you and used a four by four and I just kept going.
[00:38:37] And now the freight train hit me and oh, and so I came to a place where I said,
[00:38:42] I've made a mess in my life. It's not much. But what I've got, I'm laying at your feet. You take it.
[00:38:48] And I'm not going to pass go. I'm not going to collect $200. I will stay here and not get in
[00:38:51] trouble anymore. Just put me on the shelf. I got it. Thank you for your forgiveness of all you've
[00:38:56] done in my life. And that was the point that he said, I made you the way you are. Why would I
[00:39:04] want to make you a mamzy, Pamzy wimpy? But I didn't understand who he was. So for me, that was the
[00:39:10] major turning point in my life where I started reading my Bible every day, learning who he is,
[00:39:17] studying his character. And for me, no doubt, that was the strength, how I got through losing
[00:39:25] Mark and continue to every single day. But yeah. So then what was it like? So you make that turn
[00:39:33] in your life. You kind of surrender yourself, okay, I'm going to focus on what I've got.
[00:39:38] And then what then pragmatically, what did that look like in day to day? Like, did you get into
[00:39:43] what was your new job? And now you can't fly anymore. So what did you proceed with in that?
[00:39:48] Well, I had remarried just shortly before that. So, you know, he was the wage earner
[00:39:55] for the family. He was a long haul trucker. And so at that point, you know, we'd had some
[00:40:00] major problems with one of our kiddos. And I was like, I just need to focus on them. They've been
[00:40:06] through so much. You know, they've got to have some stability. And how old were they when you got
[00:40:11] remarried? They were 11, 9 and 7, I believe. And how was that transition bringing the new dad and
[00:40:20] on the scene? It was rough. You know, Christopher, my oldest, he'd been the little man, you know,
[00:40:26] and he struggled and felt like because he wasn't the little man anymore, he wasn't loved. And so,
[00:40:32] oh man, we had some crazy stuff, you know, that we had to work through. And so at that time,
[00:40:38] you know, I really tried to focus on being a better mom, helping them and supporting them.
[00:40:44] Then we moved to Oregon. My mom had a preschool and kindergarten there. And so, you know, I started
[00:40:50] working with her. I've always loved kids. And she basically did kindergarten, first grade,
[00:40:55] and second grade, so private Christian school at the beginning ages. And I started a preschool
[00:41:00] program for her there. And then eventually ended up purchasing the school from her. And
[00:41:05] that's where, you know, my mission was, was these kids and loving on them and, you know,
[00:41:11] helping their parents raise them and be the best they can, you know, when the parents couldn't
[00:41:15] be there. I still 100% believe if parents have the opportunity to be home with your kids, I know
[00:41:21] a lot of them can't, but make that sacrifice for, you know, one of those parents to be there.
[00:41:25] Because I think they turn out so, you know, so different. And people are like, oh yeah,
[00:41:30] I'll be there in the beginning years. I'll stay home. They need you the teen years just as much
[00:41:33] as they do in the beginning. But I understand, excuse me, not everybody has the, you know,
[00:41:39] ability to be able to do that. So when you moved to Oregon, you got your new husbands there,
[00:41:47] and you're all kind of like living a pretty normal life. I mean, it sounds like you got three kids,
[00:41:52] you got your husband, he's doing long haul trucking, you got a decent job. So it's relatively stable?
[00:41:59] Relatively. Yeah, I mean, it was probably the most stable that my kids had known.
[00:42:06] And how long did that stability last for? I would say probably the first four years,
[00:42:13] maybe, of the marriage, and then started seeing some real issues. You know, there was unfaithfulness
[00:42:18] on his part. And then he ended up taking his life 28 years ago. So again, a lot. And like I said,
[00:42:28] I never tell all this all at once, but you think back through it, you know, like, oh my gosh,
[00:42:31] how did any of us, you know, turn out. But again, that was the healing that God's provided in my
[00:42:39] life and letting me know that I am valuable, that I am precious, that he loves me. And not,
[00:42:46] it's a growing process. I mean, none of us become a super saint overnight. And you know,
[00:42:50] I'm sure there are still things that I had done or still do today that he's like,
[00:42:54] oh, Deborah Sue, what the heck are you doing? You know, really? But I don't ever want to do
[00:43:01] anything purposely that would grieve him or upset him. You know, and that's why for me,
[00:43:06] I want to know what are those things you don't like? Okay, well, I'm not doing them then.
[00:43:10] You know, and not that there aren't times, like I said, that I'm sure I disappoint him. I'm not
[00:43:14] perfect by any means, trust me, as my kids will tell you. But that was the major turning point
[00:43:21] in my life. And I saw him get me through losing my husband. Like I said, it wasn't
[00:43:27] perfect marriage. Not that there is a perfect marriage, but we'd been married for eight years.
[00:43:32] You know, there are issues there. Not that I wanted the guy dead, but you know,
[00:43:37] so now the kids are a little old, the kids are older at this point, they're 2018 and 16.
[00:43:42] So, so Mark's 16 years old. And his stepdad kills himself.
[00:43:52] And what's that like walking through that with? I mean, because you figure Chris is 20,
[00:43:58] you know, your daughter's 18, like they're a little bit more mature. Mark's still 16. That's
[00:44:05] there's a big difference between 16 and 18. There's an even bigger difference between 16 and 20.
[00:44:09] Yeah. And how, how does Mark handling that?
[00:44:13] I think it was definitely Mark of the kids that that was the roughest to go through.
[00:44:20] I had homes, been homeschooling my children at that point. I'm like, I can't, I can't do this
[00:44:24] anymore. Going through the grief, you know, run the preschool and kindergarten and trying to homeschool
[00:44:29] is just too much. So we put him in the Christian school. And he came to me one day and said,
[00:44:34] mom, could you please homeschool me again? And my kids when they were homeschooled, we're always
[00:44:40] like, Oh my goodness, we just got a skull. But I think now they look back and see the blessings
[00:44:46] and the life lessons that you learned in the midst of that. I don't think homeschooling is for
[00:44:49] everybody, you know, but it, I think that that was a blessing. And so it was Mark's cry to say, I
[00:44:58] just want to, I just want to be home with you, mom. I want to be where it's safe, you know. And so I
[00:45:03] did, you know, started homeschooling again. This is before nowadays homeschooling is
[00:45:08] relatively a lot easier than it used to be because I homeschooled, why should I say my wife, my wife,
[00:45:15] and I, my wife did 80% of homeschooling, we just did it with one kid. And it's because, you know,
[00:45:24] well, you know, in my opinion, from what I saw, the school system was built by girl, by women,
[00:45:35] and it was very well suited for girls, meaning sit at the desk and like do these things. And like,
[00:45:40] my girls were a lot more okay with that. You got the freaking kid, the boy, they're
[00:45:45] antsy and jumping around and want to break stuff and build stuff. And it was a lot to be cooped
[00:45:50] up in there. And if my daughters, I've offered all my kids, well, hey, if you don't want to go
[00:45:55] to school, just tell me, we'll figure something out. But they're all like, no, which is weird.
[00:45:59] It's, you can't be mad at me if you're thinking, Oh, God, we'll treat you to these daughters
[00:46:02] different. No, I'm telling you right now, they all have the option. And if any of the girls would
[00:46:05] have said, Hey, I want to be homeschooled, like awesome, I wanted to homeschool, I liked them
[00:46:09] being home more. And you want to homeschool, which in my family meant you get to homeschool,
[00:46:14] that means you get to get to all day, you get to surf all day, you get to leave a little bit
[00:46:18] of math or whatever. But that's a cool way to go. And I offered it to my daughters,
[00:46:26] but they didn't, they, they didn't want to do it. I mean, I tell that to my youngest daughter
[00:46:31] right now. I'm like, Hey, if you don't want to go to this, you know, I was like, Oh, you got homework.
[00:46:34] She's like, Yeah. And I go, cool, you want to do it or you just want to hang out with me? Because
[00:46:37] we can just do the hangout with me. That's homeschool. And she says, No. But, but yeah, but
[00:46:44] back in the day, you must have had to create your own curriculum and everything.
[00:46:46] I did. And we were, we never had much money growing up. So that wasn't an option.
[00:46:52] They didn't have like you can today, you know, you can sign up for online and you have teachers
[00:46:57] that instruct online. But we didn't have the money, even the curriculum that was available
[00:47:02] to go by that. So I would go to the library. I tried to pick topics for them that, you know,
[00:47:08] mark back then loved aviation like, awesome, that's my background. So I would make, you know,
[00:47:14] the spelling, the English, everything, you know, math, you know, let's figure out how much, you
[00:47:18] know, gallons of fuel you're going to need for and make it relatable. And so, you know, that made
[00:47:24] it easier to teach my daughter kind of self taught herself, you know, she would say, Okay, by the end
[00:47:30] of the year, I have to be through this book and I have to do that. So I got to break it down. And
[00:47:35] but man, you could it's such a shorter day. We would and I did try to be structured because
[00:47:41] it is too easy if you're not to say, We'll do that tomorrow. Let's go surfing. But we would
[00:47:47] school was from nine to 12. And we got everything done in that time. You know, we should not teach
[00:47:53] in 30 kids in the classroom, the teachers direct attention. And then they could go have jobs,
[00:47:59] they could go, you know, be involved in sports and athletic Mark played soccer, you know,
[00:48:04] at the local high school, because you could do that, you could take the extracurricular activities
[00:48:09] and participate in those. And so Mark played soccer at our high school. And
[00:48:16] when you hear about like, Okay, so Mark's, you know, his first dad, or his biological dad's not
[00:48:21] around his, his stepdad comes in, he kills himself, like you, you can almost formulate in your mind,
[00:48:29] and there's not much money and there's like stuff going on, you formulate in your mind,
[00:48:33] this picture of this guy who must be, you know, kind of closed down, kind of angry, kind of rough,
[00:48:41] and like, it's just the absolute complete opposite. And so that was just always the case,
[00:48:48] like from birth, because Mark lit up a room, he was always laughing, like you couldn't, you couldn't,
[00:48:54] you couldn't suppress his happiness. Like no matter how hard you tried, it was coming out.
[00:48:59] And so that was, it kind of reminds me what you're talking about, you know, when you're telling me
[00:49:03] that you at some point in your life were sort of felt like you needed to be meek and mild,
[00:49:09] I, it's hard for me to comprehend that knowing you. And then you look at kind of the burden of
[00:49:15] life that was put upon Mark. And it's hard to, you just can't suppress his just personality,
[00:49:24] he's unsuppressable. And so it was always like that. Yes, that was just who Mark was. Yeah. And
[00:49:30] I think, you know, you're, that's, that's who God designed you to be, you know, you can't be a
[00:49:35] class clown if you're, that's not in you, you know, you could drive as a back to back champion
[00:49:43] of class, which is no surprise at all. So who's he hanging out with who, you know, because he's
[00:49:52] homeschooled. So is he mostly, is he going to play sports at school? He's playing sports at school.
[00:49:57] What sports are you playing? Very active in our youth group. He was a soccer player.
[00:49:59] Just soccer? Anything else? Nope, just soccer. Came home his freshman year and he's like,
[00:50:05] hey, mom, I'm going to be a professional soccer player. And I'm like, and I always told my kids,
[00:50:10] you put your mind to it, you can do anything you put your mind to. And when he came home and told
[00:50:15] me that, I'm like, Ruh-roh. Mark, you've never played soccer in your life. We didn't have the
[00:50:20] money for them to play, you know, a little league or Pee-wee year. He literally had never played
[00:50:26] soccer. And because we homeschooled them, it's not like you did it in, you know, PE class.
[00:50:31] And I was like, oh, but this is what I've taught him. I'm like, all right, we'll get you, you know,
[00:50:35] enrolled in the high school at soccer. And okay, let's do this. And that was after my husband had
[00:50:43] passed. So there was a little bit of money to at least, you know, pay the fees and get him in the
[00:50:47] program. And it was his coach was our youth pastor at our church and good family friends.
[00:50:54] And after the funeral, or maybe even at the funeral, Chuck had said, oh, my gosh, he was probably
[00:51:00] the worst soccer player he'd ever seen in his life. And Mark did his freshman year, got most
[00:51:06] improved player granted if you're the worst soccer player in the world. You know, that you don't have
[00:51:12] to go too far to get most improved player. He became the youngest soccer coach that high school
[00:51:18] had ever had, and was in fact trying out with the Colorado Rapids, national team in out of Colorado.
[00:51:25] And the night before tryouts blew out his knee, had to come home and have surgery,
[00:51:30] Torres meniscus, Torres meniscus and his ACL had half his meniscus removed, which we had in the
[00:51:36] refrigerator forever. Okay, show everybody. But finally, I'm like, Mark, throw that away. Somebody's
[00:51:44] gonna come in and think that's something deep in there. But and even missing those parts of his body
[00:51:50] still became an ABCL. But it was really cool. Probably three years ago, the Colorado Rapids
[00:51:56] reached out to me and they said, we want to present you Mark's team jersey. We know he had made the
[00:52:01] team. And so got to go up there and they had fireworks for him. They showed two different videos,
[00:52:06] three minutes long about Mark and just honoring him. And I was like, Mark, you got your team jersey,
[00:52:12] buddy. So yeah, determination, definitely one of his characters. So he's going to high school,
[00:52:20] but he's homeschooled, you're teaching him, which means he's getting straight A's. I mean, I hope,
[00:52:25] right? Yeah, no, he wasn't getting straight A's. He was having a little hard time focusing at the
[00:52:30] time. You know, my kid got straight A's when he was over 100%. No, it was probably harder on them
[00:52:36] than I would have been the kids at the school that were going through. So but he's playing soccer.
[00:52:40] So as he's, you know, freshman year, sophomore year, junior, as he's starting to think about going
[00:52:45] to college. And is Christopher already in the Marine Corps? Christopher's not in the Marine
[00:52:51] Corps yet. But he's in living in Colorado. And then Mark had decided, yeah, he was going to go to
[00:52:58] college, he wanted to be a youth pastor. So he went down to the master's college, just in California,
[00:53:04] isn't it? Yeah, just north of LA, Santa Clarita. And how's that for him? It was good. He loved it.
[00:53:10] It was doing great. Playing soccer for them there. And then after his first year when he was home that
[00:53:16] summer, and he did construction work, oh my gosh, they would say, that guy will carry three sheets
[00:53:21] of plywood all by himself up the stairs. But if you know, Mark, he was he's built, you know, big guy,
[00:53:26] that's why he got the big gun. But yeah, so to see him, you know, do those things and and carry on
[00:53:34] in the term nation was pretty amazing. So he's going to college. I mean, it sounds like this is,
[00:53:41] as far as I'm concerned, like you raised a kid, they're now going to call the God in college,
[00:53:45] they're playing soccer, cause this is like a big win for you. You're, I mean, successful mom, right?
[00:53:50] You're, you're thinking not successful mom. But you know, I did my best. But literally,
[00:53:55] my kids should have been their background should somebody should have been, you know,
[00:53:59] killed in a drug overdose. Somebody Cheryl should have had, you know, 15 kids by the time she was
[00:54:04] 20. And, and I didn't, I just, I was hoping if my kids got to 18 and nobody was pregnant, nobody
[00:54:10] is an alcoholic, we're good. Yeah. So you got a kid. That's what I'm saying. You got a kid that's
[00:54:15] like, yes, but again, not because of me and my skills as a parent, you know, well, I'm sorry to
[00:54:22] disagree with you, but you had to do something right to get these kids from a rough background.
[00:54:28] And here you got Mark, he's going to college, he's playing soccer. That's incredible. Like
[00:54:33] playing soccer or playing any athletic pursuit in college is awesome. And, and so then how's that
[00:54:40] going? So he's going to be a youth pastor. He's on a good moral path. Everything's going awesome.
[00:54:45] Yep. And then when he came home that summer, decided he was going to change his major from
[00:54:50] being a pastor, he now wanted to be a lawyer. And so in my warp sense of humor, I say, first he was
[00:54:56] going to save them, then he's going to defend them. And then he became a seal and said, I'll just kill
[00:54:59] them. But obviously that's a terrorist. But, and went one semester with the switch to law. Back to
[00:55:08] the same school. Yeah, back to the same school. And then said, you know what, I'm going to go pursue,
[00:55:14] you know, the Colorado Rapids and try to be a professional soccer player. So
[00:55:17] I think that's what maybe he went in between. Maybe that's what it was in between the first year,
[00:55:23] then he went play soccer and then decided when he bought his need to go do one more semester.
[00:55:28] And that's when I really started seeing him reading as he was recovering books about other
[00:55:32] Navy SEALs and what they'd gone through. Again, we, they never had swim lessons growing up.
[00:55:37] And we didn't have a pool. So I noticed he started going to the local community pool and
[00:55:43] swimming laps and reading about swimming and, you know, so was there anyone that told him about
[00:55:48] the SEAL teams or did he just find it somehow? Not that I know of. I don't know that we knew
[00:55:53] anybody or he had any of those. Every kid he'd watched, you know, a movie when he's 16 that said,
[00:55:59] I want to be a Navy SEAL, you know, every young boy at that age that watches it,
[00:56:03] thinks they're going to be a cool Navy SEAL. They get all the girls, they're going to blow things up.
[00:56:07] And yeah, that's job ever. Yeah. But I don't know that there was anybody or nobody, you know,
[00:56:14] obviously a home school, nobody came to school and talked to him about it. But
[00:56:18] my oldest son went in the Marines in August of 2000. My daughter's husband went in the Army in
[00:56:26] October of 2000. And Mark went in in May of 2001. And I'm sure being the youngest, you know, he's
[00:56:33] like, I'm going to one up you guys, watch this. So very competitive. But yeah, so on 9-11, all
[00:56:41] three of my kids' lives were involved in the military. And I could see the handwriting in the
[00:56:45] wall. I knew we were going to have loved ones deployed. Yeah. You know, and I remember doing
[00:56:49] an interview at the town we lived in was about 5,000 people. And the reporter said, you know,
[00:56:56] I know all your family's involved. What if someone dies? And I said, well,
[00:56:59] God forbid that whatever happened. But I've seen God walk me through death before. I know he would
[00:57:05] do it again. You know, and who knew that August 2nd, we would end up dealing with that. But so proud
[00:57:13] of, you know, all my kids' choice to serve in the military and to make a difference because they
[00:57:20] loved God. They loved our country. They knew it was the right thing to do, to stand for and protect
[00:57:28] this nation that we love. And I get so frustrated at times that, you know, obviously for those of us
[00:57:35] in the military, we understand that sacrifice and not just the sacrifice that Mark gave of his life,
[00:57:41] what you guys have sacrificed in your health, what the families have sacrificed for all the
[00:57:46] deployments that are gone with the kids, you know, not having a parent around. And it is so important
[00:57:52] for those civilians to recognize that sacrifice that is made so that we can live free every day.
[00:57:59] And when I autograph the books that I'm contributing author and I sign it, live your life worthy of
[00:58:04] that sacrifice. And we do owe that to all of our men and women who served to live lives honoring
[00:58:10] them and recognizing, you know, I don't think anybody unless they've served or close to somebody
[00:58:15] really completely understand that, but you need to try to understand it as much as you can. There's
[00:58:20] a huge price paid for the freedoms that you enjoy every day and don't ever take those for granted.
[00:58:27] As Mark's joining the Navy, so Christopher joins the Marine Corps, what's he doing in the Marine Corps?
[00:58:36] Christopher was.
[00:58:37] Shoot me for not remembering him in the west.
[00:58:40] Well, no, it's fine because I was actually.
[00:58:41] Communications, who's communications?
[00:58:43] But a lot of people that aren't in the military, they don't even, they're like, oh, you're in the
[00:58:48] Marine Corps. That's just like what you're doing. Like every Marine is just a Marine.
[00:58:52] And then, you know, oh, so you do, you, oh, you're going to the Marine Corps. Okay.
[00:58:57] You know, you got it. And you kind of know what a Marine is. Did you have any clue about what a
[00:59:02] seal was? No, I really didn't. I mean, I knew there were seals and they were special guys, but
[00:59:07] that was about the extent of it.
[00:59:09] And so when he enlisted, when Mark enlisted to be a seal, did you start doing research?
[00:59:14] Did you start trying to figure out what was going on? Or were you just like, okay, well,
[00:59:17] sounds like it's going to be hard. Good luck. Go get some. Yeah, pretty much.
[00:59:21] Like, I don't think my, I was talking about this yesterday with a guy. I was like,
[00:59:24] I don't think my parents actually understood anything that was going on. They just,
[00:59:28] you know, I'm like, oh, I'm going through some hard training. They're like, okay.
[00:59:32] Like, okay, bye. You know, who I called six months later, I made it through that hard training.
[00:59:36] I was talking about, okay, good job. Okay, great. You know, like there was no, there was no,
[00:59:41] I don't think they just comprehended. Whereas nowadays, there's so much information
[00:59:45] that you can really, I did watch the two, three, four video on history channel.
[00:59:53] So that was out. Okay. Well, no, that's, that is a pretty, there's a lot of information in that.
[00:59:59] And it's definitely not, you know, the way it's edited, it seems, yeah, it's an introduction
[01:00:04] to it. And it definitely is a nice perspective. It's in the rose colored glasses, you know,
[01:00:09] on seal training. Little soft. Yeah. So Mark goes and how you got what, a son-in-law in an army,
[01:00:19] you got a son in the Marine Corps. And so September 11th comes and you're, that is a heavy,
[01:00:29] that is a heavy deal for you. I mean, three for three.
[01:00:32] Yeah. When, how long is, where's Mark at when September 11th happens?
[01:00:42] So Mark was. Was he already at Bud's?
[01:00:48] I want to say he might have been down at his A school in Pensacola.
[01:00:51] Might have been at A school. So he's going to A school, which is the old way they used to do it.
[01:00:56] You'd go to like, you learn a regular Navy job. He was an aviation ordinance man, AO2,
[01:01:02] Mark Lee, coming in hot. That's before they have their own, you have your own job now in
[01:01:07] this heel teams. It's called an SO, special operations, special operator, something like that.
[01:01:12] When he went to Bud's for the first time, how's he doing? Was he ready? Were you talking to him?
[01:01:17] He was good. His mindset, you know, again, looking back from that side of it,
[01:01:22] I felt like his mindset was good. He was determined. He was going to, you know, he was going to do this.
[01:01:29] And he, on Thursday night of Hell Week, so just the point, he was an hour away from being rolled
[01:01:36] forward. They had done Med checks on him. And he had pneumonia and he had pulmonary edema. So he
[01:01:43] had water in the lungs and water outside the lungs. And they pulled him from training. And even then,
[01:01:49] he was like, no, no, I got this. I can do this. And they said, no, we lost a guy two classes go.
[01:01:54] Exactly. We have to pull you. And so as you can imagine, very devastated, you know, that that
[01:02:01] happened. He had to start all the way back in the beginning, you know, wait for the next class.
[01:02:06] He was picking up trash or doing something in between and, you know, very frustrated,
[01:02:10] but he's ready to go at it again. And then that was class 239 that he started in. Then 2400,
[01:02:17] he started over again and got to Hell Week and Monday night of Hell Week, he called me
[01:02:23] and he said, Hey, mom, I'm D.O.R.D. which dropped on request, request. He rang the bell. And I'm
[01:02:30] like, you know, the joastery is I'm like, yeah, whatever. I know how bad you want it. There's no
[01:02:35] way. Yeah. So what else is going on? He goes, mom, I'm serious to rang the bell. I'm like,
[01:02:38] Mark, knock it off. You know, this is not something you joke about. He's like, mom, it's Monday night
[01:02:43] of Hell Week. I wouldn't have privileges to call you if I was still in Hell Week. And I'm like, oh,
[01:02:48] I remember that from before. And of course, when you ring the bell, then you still the Navy time.
[01:02:55] You don't just go back home and get a new job and move on with life. Yeah. Note to anyone that's
[01:02:59] listening that thinks you might want to be a seal. Just remember if you don't make it, which you
[01:03:05] probably won't. And I know you don't think it's you. You all don't think it's you. You think that,
[01:03:11] oh, I'm not going to be the one that quits. Everybody thinks it's someone else. But most likely
[01:03:15] it's you. And I guess there's some people, I've heard some people say like, you actually know,
[01:03:22] like you actually know if you're going to make it or not. I don't know if that's true or not. I
[01:03:26] know I was going to make it. I'm not saying I was cocky. I wasn't too cocky. I was still worried.
[01:03:32] Like you're worried. You're like, damn, I could fail something tomorrow and that could be that.
[01:03:35] And so that's why you're paranoid. Even harder. I was paranoid the whole time. But I was, you know,
[01:03:41] I had a pretty good level of confidence. Like I know I'm not going to quit.
[01:03:45] So just keep that in mind. So Mark, and this is also good to remember Mark quit his first time
[01:03:52] through. And instead of being like, okay, well, I give up forever. He's like, okay, so how long
[01:04:00] when you talk to him that night, was he, what, what, what, do you have any idea what drove that
[01:04:03] decision? He had met a gal and fell in love. And she felt like this was not conducive to family
[01:04:12] life, which agreed. Okay, it's tough on family. Once again, anyone that's listening, you think
[01:04:17] you might want to do this job, postpone the ladies, postpone the ladies. They're not going to help
[01:04:23] you get through this. There's like very rarely. Yeah. So let's, let's, let's hold off on the ladies
[01:04:31] until you get done. Then you can go and find yourself a girl. So Mark meets a girl. And he's a
[01:04:37] freaking romantic dude anyways. You know what I mean? He's kind of like a Hopos romantic. And I'm
[01:04:40] sure that is kicking his ass to, you know, pretty good looking. Yeah. Yeah. I can't judge that
[01:04:46] because I'm a man, but I'm sure if you ask a bunch of women, they would make that judgment
[01:04:52] that he's handsome. And kind of jacked to, he's kind of jacked to, which is, which is good to be.
[01:05:00] So when you're talking to him, he's like, I met this girl. Did he have immediate regret? A lot of
[01:05:05] times people quit. They have immediate regret. Was he like, no, I think I made the right call.
[01:05:09] What was his attitude? Yeah, no, he was sent to Virginia Beach was signed to the USS. I always
[01:05:16] have to stop and think of its enterprise or Eisenhower Eisenhower. And it was in dry dock.
[01:05:22] So he was sent to the Army base there to drive a shuttle bus for them. I have a picture of him
[01:05:27] with his head on the steering wheel. Like, Oh my gosh, he's gone from being Navy SEALs now and
[01:05:33] picking up people on the base on this bus and, um, hate in life. He was not happy. And I remember
[01:05:40] him calling me and saying, mom, I screwed up. I'm like, what'd you do now? He goes, I shouldn't
[01:05:45] rang the bell. And I said, positive. We've prayed about this. He goes, yeah, mom, I need to go back.
[01:05:52] I said, then you need to get your butt back there. You need to do whatever it takes. If you're sure
[01:05:56] this is where you're supposed to be and where God wants you, you get to do it. And he had, it took
[01:06:01] him about a year. He had to do meet with officers. He had to do extra PT. He had to write essays. I
[01:06:08] mean, the evals and stuff and rightfully so. How did they know you've already quit once?
[01:06:13] You know, how do we know we get you back there and spend all this money training you and,
[01:06:17] and you quit again? You know, so he really had to prove himself and he did and ended up being
[01:06:22] and running for the honor man. I remember he called that night and he goes, mom, I didn't get honor
[01:06:27] man. I'm like, Mark, you got your trident, but I get it. I'm competitive, you know, but yeah.
[01:06:35] Did he train more or do you think it was just the mindset was there? What happened to the girl?
[01:06:42] By the way, she's still in his life at that time. So, you know, but he just realized this is what
[01:06:46] I'm supposed to do, you know, and like I told him, if you do not do him, God designed you do,
[01:06:50] you're going to come home and kick the dog and your wife and you're going to be fighting all
[01:06:54] the time or your girlfriend or, you know, you need to be where you're supposed to be. And so,
[01:07:00] you know, and again, they're in Virginia Beach, I'm in Arizona at this time. So,
[01:07:03] I didn't see a lot of that extra training. I'm sure he had to do extra training,
[01:07:08] you know, nor was real familiar with what was going on with their relationship at that time.
[01:07:13] Did he make it through? Do you know if he made it through like straight through in the second,
[01:07:18] the second time he went to Bud's? I think he made it straight through. I think there was one
[01:07:25] pool comp, maybe, where they let him do one more time. Yeah. So, I think he,
[01:07:32] are you giving a couple tries in pool comp? I think you definitely get more than one,
[01:07:37] but you get a few tries and if you don't make it, then you get rolled back a class.
[01:07:40] Yeah, he never got rolled back. Okay, well, then that's awesome. But he did the pool comp the first
[01:07:43] time and then I think did it the second. Yeah, I failed pool comp the first time. Yep, I failed
[01:07:49] pool comp the first time, I think. Yeah, and then I passed it my second time and I was totally
[01:07:53] paranoid. Yeah, but I'm already preparing my grandkids for that just in case they want to do
[01:07:57] that. We do drownproofing in the pool at home. So, yeah. Let's be safe. I'm safe, trust me.
[01:08:04] Yeah, that's impressive to get it through the first time. And again, I've had a couple people
[01:08:11] that I've known that had kids that went to Buds that quit and if I think that they're good kids,
[01:08:22] I will tell them about Mark Lee and Mikey Montsour and I'll say, yeah, you know Mark Lee and Mikey
[01:08:27] Montsour and they go, yeah, and I go, both of those guys quit the first time they went to Buds.
[01:08:31] And if you learn from this, you can go back and you can get after it and you can do awesome in
[01:08:38] the SEAL teams. Or if it's not for you, then just accept that and go do something else,
[01:08:43] which is perfectly fine. Yes. It's not a job for everyone. There's different personalities and
[01:08:49] there's different things. It doesn't make you a bad person if you don't make it through SEAL
[01:08:52] training. It just means that you weren't supposed to be a SEAL. Go be something else and do something
[01:08:55] else cool, which is fine. But like you said, if that's what you really think you should do,
[01:09:02] and I'll tell you another thing to watch out for everybody, if you're listening to this and
[01:09:05] you're thinking this might be the path for you, it's this is like when Mark's, this is during
[01:09:11] the war. There's no war going on right now. The second chances that were pretty fairly common
[01:09:19] are not that common right now. And if you quit right now, people are like, okay, well, you don't
[01:09:23] really want to be here and that's that. So if you go, don't think that there's a second chance.
[01:09:29] Don't go into an attitude with, don't go into it with the attitude that there's a second chance
[01:09:32] because likely at this current time, there's probably not going to be a second chance for you
[01:09:37] just because that's, there's no war going on. I mean, you're talking, this is 2004, 2005,
[01:09:43] like we needed SEALs. And so those slots were more open. So did you come out to graduation?
[01:09:50] I did. Yep. Came out to the graduation and one of my favorite pictures that I have was Mark and
[01:09:55] I on the O-Course after he graduated. Oh, yeah. I've seen that picture. Yeah. Love that picture.
[01:10:03] Yeah. He got his trident at graduation. Right? Okay. So this is the old way you didn't get your
[01:10:07] trident at graduation. You went to a team. So he got his trident at graduation and
[01:10:13] now he's going to, he gets assigned to SEAL team three, which to you, that doesn't mean anything.
[01:10:19] You're just like, well, SEAL team three sounds great. Now it does. Best team in the world.
[01:10:22] So you're like, okay, he's going to SEAL team three and how fired up is Mark at this juncture?
[01:10:28] He's pretty fired. Yeah. Yeah. He's, I mean, think about it. After going through
[01:10:33] three bloods classes, you know, you finally done it, you're successful. You know, there's a mission,
[01:10:40] you know, you're going to be deploying soon. You know, that's what he trained for. Yeah. He trained
[01:10:44] to make a difference in the world and, you know, to get rid of the evil that's out there,
[01:10:48] you know, for our family, for America, for everyone that lives here, you know,
[01:10:54] because he knew it was the right thing to do. Yeah. Sometimes people think or their perception is
[01:11:01] that someone will change, buds will change them. Some people have the attitude that like, no,
[01:11:07] they didn't change the person. They just got rid of the people that weren't that way in the first
[01:11:11] place. What did it look like to you with Mark? Yeah. I don't think it changed Mark. You know,
[01:11:16] he's always been the determination when he puts his mind, you know, talk about soccer,
[01:11:21] coming home saying, I'm going to be a professional soccer player. You know,
[01:11:24] then he followed through. It didn't just happen because he didn't do the hard work to make it
[01:11:27] happen. I can remember him on Saturdays, we got a ball machine that would shoot the balls at him
[01:11:33] so he could, you know, practice dribbling or heading in or, and he'd be out there for eight
[01:11:38] hours on a Saturday. What 16, 17 year old do you know that's going to be that determined
[01:11:44] to reach his goal by giving up his Saturdays to be able to do that? And so that's, that's who
[01:11:50] Mark was. I don't think it changed him. I think there's some things that might have, you know,
[01:11:55] habits that he developed, maybe a little bit different, but it didn't change who Mark was.
[01:12:01] Yeah. And again, like you can just see that he has just an unsuppressable personality of fun.
[01:12:08] And so yeah, that's not going to change. So when, when Mark showed up to SEAL team three,
[01:12:17] he actually got assigned to task unit Charlie. That's what he got assigned to.
[01:12:24] Is that the original one he got?
[01:12:25] This is the original one he got assigned to. So he got assigned to task unit Charlie. So
[01:12:30] I forget which platoon he was in, but he's either in Echo or Foss.
[01:12:34] Okay. So he's in Echo platoon at SEAL team three and we're all going through, I didn't know Mark
[01:12:40] at all. Then, you know, he's in a different task unit. He's a new guy in a different task unit.
[01:12:43] I'm in task unit bruiser, but we're, you know, we're all doing different training. So we're not
[01:12:48] even, even though we're at the same team, we're not, we're rarely all together, you know,
[01:12:54] they're at the desert, we're at the jungle, we're at the ocean, they're at the mountain. Like,
[01:12:58] so you, so you don't really get to know people right away in one workup for sure. And then what
[01:13:05] happens is task unit bruiser, there's different task units going to different parts of the world.
[01:13:11] And they had to send one task unit to Iraq and another task unit was going to go to the Pacific
[01:13:16] Theater and task unit bruiser gets chosen to go to Iraq. And when that happens, we get an
[01:13:23] opportunity to bring a couple more guys in from the task unit that was going to the Pacific.
[01:13:29] And so we got assigned a couple of guys. One of those guys is Mark and Mark shows up and,
[01:13:35] you know, so he shows up, he's a new guy. He had some buddies in there, you know, from that were
[01:13:40] other new guys and whatnot, but like, you just get a guy that's showing up and it's probably the best
[01:13:45] move as a new guy to a platoon or to a task unit. And our task unit was definitely, I mean, we were
[01:13:53] called task unit bruiser and we were, we were definitely up to your name. Yeah, we were definitely
[01:13:58] an aggressive group of dudes and probably the best call would have been to kind of gray man,
[01:14:07] you know, that expression gray man, get in there, lay low, let me just like, kind of fit into this
[01:14:12] gig and I'm not going to stand out and that's what I'm going to do. Not Mark. Mark was,
[01:14:18] Mark was freaking not like that at all. He was out of the gate like, but the weird thing was
[01:14:25] in the SEAL teams, the primary as a new guy in the SEAL teams, the primary role, the primary
[01:14:31] result of your mouth is to get you in trouble. Like anytime you open your mouth, there's a 90%
[01:14:36] chance you're going to get yourself into trouble. You're going to end up, you know, saying something
[01:14:41] you should have said, doing, you know, offending someone you shouldn't have offended. It's,
[01:14:44] it's probably going to get you in trouble. And so that's one of those things that makes people
[01:14:49] go, Hey, like, I don't need to roll the dice on this. I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.
[01:14:53] And Mark was just not like that. But the interesting thing was his mouth didn't get him
[01:15:00] into trouble. It kind of, it was like drew people through it. Yeah, drew two people and it made,
[01:15:04] it was, he's very endearing and had that like childish sort of fun thing where you really
[01:15:11] couldn't be mad at him. Like, even if he said something that normally would have made someone
[01:15:16] rage with anger, the way he would say it and the way he would laugh about it and the way he would
[01:15:22] shrug his shoulders and, you know, raise his eyebrows like, Hey, you know, as a matter of fact,
[01:15:27] there's a video of Mark and he's like doing something in a car. I've searched and searched
[01:15:31] for it. I haven't been able to find it. Have you seen the video where like Mark's in a car and he's
[01:15:34] like singing a song. And I don't know who's got that, but I have seen that, but it's, it's hilarious.
[01:15:40] It's the type of thing where you go, Yep, that's it. How could you be mad at that guy? Like,
[01:15:44] it doesn't matter what he's saying to you. When he's acting like that, you can't be mad at him.
[01:15:48] Okay. Try parenting something like that. Oh, it had to be. He must have gotten away with,
[01:15:51] he must have gotten away with pretty much anything because so interestingly, when he rolled in, so
[01:15:58] he's, so he's automatically like, I think one of the first things he said was like, I can't be choked
[01:16:03] out, you know, like, I can't be choked out. He's laughing and he's getting choked out. But it's
[01:16:07] like, no, it's mad at him. They're just laughing like it's hilarious. One of our, so, so we're
[01:16:13] done with our pre deployment training. So now we're in our sort of, like we're doing sort of
[01:16:19] specialized training that we want to focus on. And we end up doing this trip where we go to
[01:16:25] Hawthorne, Nevada, and we go to Nellis Air Force Base, which what this means is Nellis Air Force
[01:16:32] Base is just outside of Las Vegas and Hawthorne is like within a short drive of Reno and Tahoe.
[01:16:39] So we end up getting awesome training while we're also having like an awesome time,
[01:16:44] pre deployment, we're ready to rock and roll. And this is where, when we're, and this is where,
[01:16:50] you know, we really started to see Mark and what he was like. We end up, and I don't know,
[01:16:58] I don't know if there's a, what is it? What's the word for like when you can't get in trouble for
[01:17:04] anything anymore? Like a diplomatic immunity? Not diplomatic. It's when too much time has passed.
[01:17:10] Oh, statute of limitations. So I don't know if there's a statute of limitations on stuff on,
[01:17:15] on kids say there is. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna swim more past it. But here we are. This is
[01:17:21] where we're a SEAL task unit and we're going to train in these two places. We end up in Vegas.
[01:17:27] And while we're in Vegas, instead of staying like on the base that's up there, we stay,
[01:17:31] we get like a wing of a casino. We have, we're there and we're training hard. But then at night,
[01:17:39] we're coming back and it's like, we got casinos, we got booze and clubs and all this stuff. And this
[01:17:44] is where really like Mark is just on fire. We've got an audience. Oh, he's got an audience. He's
[01:17:50] like living the dream. And of course, when you're a young SEAL, you're the richest person in the
[01:17:54] world. You got more money than you ever know what to do with. And there's some classic Mark Lee
[01:17:58] lines, which number one playing blackjack, like we're all sitting around the blackjack play
[01:18:05] table and playing. And every time the dealer would bust, Mark would just be like, everybody's a
[01:18:11] winner. And he's got everyone saying this. And it's like embarrassing the freaking dealer and
[01:18:17] they're causing all kinds of like legitimately like pit bosses are coming over. They're like
[01:18:22] checking him out. Like what's going on here. Then like one time they're, they're, they bring in
[01:18:28] other dealers, like they want to cool down the table, like they bring in a cooler and Mark would
[01:18:35] be like, Oh, they think they're bringing in the ice man. They think they're gonna cool me down.
[01:18:39] They're gonna cool me down. You can't do it. He's like talking this just immense amount of shit to
[01:18:42] these, to these, to these dealers. And he's just a freaking maniac. I remember I like come down to
[01:18:50] the casino floor and I'm looking like across and I see Mark and he's at a blackjack table and he's
[01:18:55] like, Hey, sir, this is like a public place. Hey, sir, sir. And I look over and I'm like, what's up?
[01:19:00] And he goes, Hey, when are the new Cadillacs coming out? I mean, he's just going nuts, like
[01:19:06] uncontrollable mayhem. Right. And this is, this is what you're dealing with with Mark. It's just
[01:19:11] like this unstoppable, unsuppressable attitude doesn't just doesn't care what anyone's thinking.
[01:19:17] He's just having a freaking blast. And actually, this is, this is when I found out that Mark was
[01:19:26] married. Well, you found out before we did. I know. And so what happened wasn't so I didn't know
[01:19:31] he's married, right? And like, we're, we're at, we're sitting there playing blackjack and like,
[01:19:36] it's, we're, you know, guys are starting to peel off and like, Hey, we're going to the club because
[01:19:39] they're putting most of the guys are single. I'm not single. So I'm playing blackjack. And so finally,
[01:19:43] I'm like expecting Mark to get up and go, you know, I'm like, Hey, man, what are you going to the
[01:19:47] club with those guys? What are you doing? You're going to roll out, you know, you're going to go
[01:19:50] chase the girls or whatever. Like, that's what these guys are doing. And he's like, he kind of
[01:19:54] like gets a little quiet, which was weird. He's like, Hey, I'm actually, I'm actually married.
[01:20:00] And I was like, What? He's like, Yeah, he's like, Yeah, I'm going to get, you know, we're going to
[01:20:04] do the real thing when I get back. But like, I got an awesome girl and he was totally stoked.
[01:20:09] And that was that, you know, so he was definitely, he was unofficially married at that time to Maya.
[01:20:17] And he was definitely in love with her like ridiculous. And that's why he was just content
[01:20:23] to hang out with the old guy, which was me at whatever I was 34 or something like that,
[01:20:27] like the oldest guy in the world. And he was content just to hang out with me and
[01:20:33] waste our money gambling, which again, and the Cadillac relates to the Charlie patch.
[01:20:41] Yeah. And that's the emblem on there is the Cadillac emblem. So yeah, that was part of the
[01:20:46] connection to the team too. But I'm thinking, you know, hey, they should give me a Cadillac, right?
[01:20:52] Yeah, they still use that SEAL team three Charlie team still uses that Cadillac
[01:20:56] symbol, which has, I think it came from actually the platoon before as the guys that started using it.
[01:21:04] So that was that was what it was like. That was the mayhem up there. And this was this was Mark
[01:21:10] just literally 24 hours a day. Yeah, you know, because we're going out training and he what's
[01:21:16] he doing? He's just, you know, fired up laughing, poking fun of everybody, you know, just doing
[01:21:23] like whatever random athletic because he's a really awesome athlete. So whatever random like
[01:21:28] athletic thing to try and do, he's doing it throwing rocks at the target, you know,
[01:21:34] jumping off this thing, whatever, he's just sideways on any poles, yeah, just just do that.
[01:21:39] The stop signs are just just it's just 24 hours a day. Like that's what he's doing.
[01:21:47] But you guys did try to, you know, the new guys come to the platoon and you guys try to make it
[01:21:51] terrible for them. And then I heard that they tried to do that mark. And after a couple of days,
[01:21:56] you're like, Oh my gosh, we love this guy. We can't we can't do this. Yeah, that you took bets on
[01:22:01] how long you carry the gun with no sling, the big gun. Yeah, well, that that's what I was trying to
[01:22:06] get across. Like most guys, when they get into a platoon, they're just going to be like, Okay,
[01:22:11] look, I just need to be a gray man. And yeah, you're right. Like the teeth, the guys in the platoon,
[01:22:17] the more senior guys, it's just for you're just fresh meat. And they're just sharks looking for
[01:22:22] a little bit of weakness. And then they're going to rip your part. And, you know, whatever is
[01:22:25] going to bother you, they're going to figure out what's going to bother you. But whatever little
[01:22:29] name they can call you or whatever thing they can do to you flick your ear or hide your gear or call
[01:22:34] you a name or poke you, whatever it is that they can do that they figure out is going to make you
[01:22:39] mad. They're going to just harp on that thing and make your life miserable. So yes, 100%. That's
[01:22:44] what's happening. And they just can't find a chink in the armor of Mark like no matter
[01:22:51] whatever he does that stupid, he's laughing harder to himself than anyone else laughing at him.
[01:22:55] Like the knock knock joke. Exactly. So it's just, it's just mayhem. And, and yeah, and he's a really
[01:23:03] he's a stud athlete. So you know, he's carrying his, his A dub, his machine gun with no sling and
[01:23:09] people are like, Yeah, you're going to need that. It's like, Oh, no, I'm actually a, I'm actually
[01:23:12] a badass. I got this. Oh, you're a badass. Yeah. Watch this. And there you go. And he's going to
[01:23:18] carry that pig with, with, with no sling. And that's, that's how he's rolling. And that's how
[01:23:22] he always rolled. So that's what we're doing. We actually, then we do our, our, we finish that kind
[01:23:31] of that those little blocks of training that we're running ourselves, we're, we're getting honed,
[01:23:35] you know, we're doing, we are doing a lot of legitimate hard training. We're putting all the
[01:23:39] junior guys in charge so that they have better understanding of the leadership roles there.
[01:23:44] We're doing a lot of standard operating procedures. We're really drilling those. So we are doing a
[01:23:48] lot of work while we're having this much fun. We finish up with those train, those little blocks
[01:23:54] of training. We do our operational readiness exercise, which is like a big training exercise
[01:24:00] where they have all kinds of cool training assets. And we're out in the middle of the desert. We're
[01:24:05] on the army base for Irwin, which is the huge national training center for the army. And they
[01:24:12] have, you know, entire infantry brigades out there that are doing their training. So that means
[01:24:17] we're doing interoperability with tanks and soldiers. And it's just, it's just really awesome.
[01:24:23] We, we had some great training missions up there. And then we're going on deployment.
[01:24:29] And for deployment, we were supposed to be going to Baghdad and downtown Baghdad, there was a,
[01:24:34] there was a group of SEALs and special forces guys that had been working with the most elite
[01:24:40] of the Iraqi forces, which was called the Iraqi counter terror group, ICT, Iraqi counter
[01:24:47] terror force, ICTF. And these guys had like American weapons and American night vision. So
[01:24:53] these guys were really highly trained. And that's what, what we were mission was supposed to be.
[01:24:58] That was our mission was supposed to be. I actually went on pre deployment site survey
[01:25:03] to go over there and worked with them a little bit, just to get to know, meet the people,
[01:25:08] come back with some, you know, lessons learned and get ready for the deployment. And we were on
[01:25:15] pre deployment leave. So guys are on pre, I'm on a pre deployment leave, but the,
[01:25:20] everyone's on pre deployment leave. And I get called in by the CEO, the commanding officer.
[01:25:25] And he says, Hey, we're going to consolidate all of our SEAL team in the West and I'll
[01:25:33] um, bar province. And that means instead of you going to Baghdad, we're thinking of sending you
[01:25:39] to Ramadi. And at this point, everybody knew how bad Ramadi was. And I knew that that's where
[01:25:48] everybody in tasking bruiser wanted to go. I didn't let on that with the skipper. I played it
[01:25:54] like, well, geez, sir, that's a really, uh, that's an extreme change. I might need some extra gear
[01:25:59] and I might need some extra people. I worked it. I worked it with the skipper and he, you know,
[01:26:05] gave me some good stuff and, and that's what we did. We ended up, we ended up going out there.
[01:26:11] And I don't think, I don't think Mark, I don't think we even told the guys because they were
[01:26:19] on pre-deployment leave. There's no means of transmitting classified information to them.
[01:26:26] And, and so I don't think, I don't think we even told anybody until everyone came back from
[01:26:31] pre-deployment leave and we just brought everyone in like, Hey, we're, we're not going to Baghdad
[01:26:35] anymore. We're going to Ramadi. So I don't know, did you know where he was going? I knew that he
[01:26:39] was going to Ramadi, but I don't remember now that you mentioned that because he came home
[01:26:44] before he deployed and his birthday's in March and it was, you guys deployed, I think the end
[01:26:50] of March, beginning of April. And so he was there for his birthday and I had taken him to, we're
[01:26:55] just down the street from where the Rangers, Rangers and the Royals do their spring training.
[01:26:59] And so I'd taken him to a baseball game and had after the, well, seven, three, eight, then on the
[01:27:04] marker board, they put happy 28th birthday, have a safe deployment, love you mom. And, you know,
[01:27:10] in the game, I'm like, Hey, Mark, Mark, look, look, and he's just, you know, nonchalantly
[01:27:14] drinking his beer and acting like, okay, whatever, no big deal. But the guy said when he got back
[01:27:19] and he was all like, kiss what my mom did for me. But I remember when he was getting ready to leave
[01:27:27] and pulling away Maya came with him. And as they were pulling away, I looked at my older son and
[01:27:33] I said, man, I don't feel good about this. And I am not a warrior or a fretter. That is just not
[01:27:37] my personality. And Christopher is the same way. And he looked at me and said, neither do I mom.
[01:27:42] And it's not like every day that a black car pulled up on my street that I'd be like, Oh,
[01:27:48] my gosh, it's today the day. I mean, I prayed more for Mark than anything I've ever prayed for
[01:27:52] in my life. But at some point, I did know he was going to Ramadi. And I've been watching the news.
[01:27:57] I knew Ramadi was, you know, as you guys say, the hellhole of Iraq or the worst piece of real
[01:28:02] estate over there. But I really, you know, knew that it was in God's hands, whatever the outcome was.
[01:28:10] But I think we all felt like you guys were invincible. You're trained well, you've got great
[01:28:15] equipment, you know, you're gonna be fine, you're gonna be good to go. You know, I think we had lost,
[01:28:22] you know, now looking back at it, you know, Operation Red Wing was just the year before.
[01:28:27] And I think in the community, we felt like we paid our dues, you know, we paid the price,
[01:28:32] we're good to go, and nothing's gonna happen for a while. And so I think when we lost Mark,
[01:28:37] I think it was definitely a wake up call in the community, go home and we are still
[01:28:42] invisible. There are still going to be, you know, a cost here. But I don't remember if it was at
[01:28:49] that point, I think you're right. I don't think he knew that he just knew he was going to Iraq.
[01:28:52] And I think he may have called me before he deployed and say, I'm going to Ramadi.
[01:28:59] Once we were on the ground, like how often were you talking to Mark?
[01:29:05] I would say I probably talked to him at least once a week, maybe.
[01:29:11] Did you, what did you think about, what did you know about what was going on there?
[01:29:16] Oh, he was training the Iraqis. They weren't doing anything real dangerous. He was just
[01:29:20] training the Iraqis. And I don't, we had a couple of conversations and I'm like, well,
[01:29:25] so what the heck's taking so long? You keep training them for months. I mean,
[01:29:30] you're just teaching them to shoot and how to, you know, maneuver and do things. And he's like,
[01:29:35] mom, they don't even know the left hand from the right hand. I'm like, wait, what? You know,
[01:29:39] I had a preschool in kindergarten. That's one of the first things you teach these kids, you know,
[01:29:43] L for left and your hand makes the L. And I'm like, I can't even comprehend, you know. And so
[01:29:51] then the reality of the language barrier and just some of their customs and, but I think he, you
[01:29:58] know, pretty well protected us to really know the extent of, you know, he'd say I'm going out on a
[01:30:04] mission, but, you know, and I know at one point he did say that, you know, the numbers that you
[01:30:10] guys were, you were at from your missions, which is way more than other, you know, SEAL teams had
[01:30:17] been doing for the number of missions, but I don't think I completely understood. I obviously knew
[01:30:23] he was in a very dangerous place. I was watching all the casualties come in every day.
[01:30:28] I know it's weird for me because when we got back, like I had friends tell me, I wasn't thinking
[01:30:36] about this, but like guys in the SEAL teams, they were reading the after actions reports that would
[01:30:42] come out every day and it'd be like, oh, this engage this many gunfight here. And they were just
[01:30:47] super fired up. They were like, we knew you guys were freaking out after they were like, they would
[01:30:53] read them at the morning meeting, like everyone sit down, like read them aloud. And I was like,
[01:30:57] damn, like, we didn't think about that. We were over there. We're just over there. Like, hey,
[01:31:00] we're submitting these. I'm going to even think about where these things were going. But then I
[01:31:04] know that on the news and it was a weird thing on the news because there wasn't there was very few
[01:31:11] reporters out there in Ramadi, very few reporters. Like when I was in Baghdad, there's a reporter.
[01:31:17] Like you could couldn't. What is the expression swing a dead cat without hanging a reporter?
[01:31:22] You could there was a lot of reporters. It's okay. I'm not a cat lover. So that's okay. There was a
[01:31:27] lot of reporters. But in Ramadi, there was very few reporters. And so who where does the news come
[01:31:33] from? It comes from reporters. So when there's not a lot of reporters, there's not a lot of information.
[01:31:37] Now, the casualty reports were would come in regularly and they would say
[01:31:44] two Marines killed in our province. That's what they would say. They wouldn't usually say
[01:31:48] in the city of Ramadi again, because there's no one there that's really hyping the story
[01:31:54] of what was going on in Ramadi. And so it was it was, I think it would have been hard to
[01:32:02] really understand what was going on without without actually either if they had him, you know,
[01:32:10] reporters that were there that were that were actually putting out work because there were some
[01:32:14] reporters there that were reporting, but they were on small like small platforms. And so it
[01:32:22] wasn't like this wasn't not wasn't on Fox. It wasn't like boom, boom, boom. They're like the stars and
[01:32:28] stripes had some people that were out there. And so they would actually catch some stories.
[01:32:33] But it was definitely a challenge to to figure out what was going on. And that and outside of,
[01:32:43] like I said, my friends and the SEAL teams that would be bro, we were reading your AERs every
[01:32:47] morning at quarters. I was like, that's freaking awesome. But outside of that, I mean, my parents
[01:32:52] had my parents had no my wife had pretty limited idea. And actually, I've read the emails that I
[01:32:59] wrote to my wife during this deployment. And they're like, Hey, you know, I'm like, Hey, how's
[01:33:04] everything? You know, how are the kids? Like there's literally almost nothing about the actual
[01:33:08] deployment itself, which is kind of a bummer, because I would want it now to see what was going
[01:33:13] on. But they're all just very bland. But that's what as you know, now, I mean, that was that's
[01:33:21] what we were doing. That's what Mark was doing. And Mark was doing just an outstanding job
[01:33:29] across the board. And one thing I know you've heard a little bit about this, but you know,
[01:33:34] we were working with Iraqis. And some of my guys had a really hard time forming relationships with
[01:33:41] Iraqis. And Mark did an awesome job of that. I know you know, he they played soccer, there's a
[01:33:46] soccer stadium in downtown Ramadi, a big giant soccer stadium. And not that we used it. We used
[01:33:52] it for a different purpose. But Iraqis love to play soccer. And so here was Mark, you know,
[01:34:00] of an actual skilled soccer player. And most what we didn't ever have, I don't think there had been
[01:34:06] skilled soccer players there before from America. And so all of a sudden, we had like a championship
[01:34:12] team based about based around one guy based just around based just around Mark being a bad ass and
[01:34:20] being a bad ass soccer player and being able to beat them in the game that they would usually,
[01:34:27] you know, pulverize you guys. The Americans, you know, they didn't ever want to play American
[01:34:31] football. Echo Charles, they never want to play baseball. They wanted to play soccer.
[01:34:36] Well, and I did hear that there is a football field somewhere in Ramadi that was named after Mark
[01:34:42] that he had made such an impression on those that they played with in course, you know, because
[01:34:47] you guys had won several of them, they're like, we want to rematch. I said, well, that rematch is
[01:34:52] going to have to happen in heaven. But yeah, even then, you know, the my first trip over to Iraq,
[01:34:58] I got to meet the interpreter that was with you guys who had been sick that day and didn't go out
[01:35:03] on that mission. And of course, he felt like that was his fault that we lost Mark that if he could
[01:35:07] have been there, you know, he could have saved Mark and like I've told so many others, there was
[01:35:12] somebody bigger in control that day, you know, that not that God caused Mark's death at all.
[01:35:18] But he could have stopped it and he chose not to. And I think we're blessed 16 and a half years later
[01:35:23] to see the impact Mark's still making today. And the lives he is still saving his teammates' lives,
[01:35:29] you know, we were in an event yesterday that was a funeral for one of our guys. And
[01:35:34] just as I kept meeting people thinking, oh my gosh, this is someone else that, you know,
[01:35:39] we've helped through the foundation that wouldn't have happened if it wouldn't have been for the
[01:35:42] sacrifice that Mark chose to make, you know. And, you know, soccer field and Ramadi, you know,
[01:35:50] tradeup building, you know, that was named after Mark on the base, you know, movies, books, you
[01:35:56] know, and I know we've been up to Mark's grave before and I said, man, that's the hardest thing
[01:36:01] to see your kid's name on a headstone. You know, that's not normal. That's not the way
[01:36:07] life should be. We should be living, you know, full lives and dying in our old age. But when we
[01:36:13] have heroes who did what Mark did and what you guys did, their stories need to be told. People need
[01:36:18] to understand the sacrifices that are made and who these guys are, what their character is.
[01:36:25] You know, you guys are some of the toughest warriors that we have in America. And I'll tell
[01:36:29] you what, some of the most kind, compassionate, caring man I've ever known. And how God gets
[01:36:35] that mixture together in your body is, it's absolutely amazing. So, yeah.
[01:36:42] Yeah. And I think that's what made Mark so amazing is he had the extreme of both those facets.
[01:36:52] You know, like we're talking about, I moved talking about how insuppressable his personality
[01:36:59] was from a just fun and humor side. But like on the on the warfighting side, we mentioned, you
[01:37:09] know, he's out there. He's a machine gunner. He's carrying his machine gun with no sling.
[01:37:15] He's a lead turret gunner in the vehicles, which night after night, you know, in Vietnam,
[01:37:24] in the Vietnam war, the point man is the most vulnerable guy because you're walking through a
[01:37:30] jungle and you're having to break trail. And as you break trail, guess what? You might hit
[01:37:36] tripwire. You might walk into an ambush and you're going to get killed.
[01:37:40] And so what they did in Vietnam was they rotate that guy out. They go, okay, you do it for,
[01:37:45] you know, an hour, then we're going to get another guy up there for an hour because you can't handle
[01:37:49] that much vulnerability as a human. Well, in Ramadi, the lead turret gunner in a vehicle,
[01:38:02] he's the most exposed guy because he's up out of the vehicle on his machine on his 50 caliber
[01:38:08] machine gun. And the primary threat in Ramadi is roadside bombs. And so when you hit a roadside
[01:38:17] bomb with a convoy, it's a person in the lead vehicle that's in the turret that's going to most
[01:38:22] likely be killed or be gravely wounded. And the horrible decision that someone made in Ramadi
[01:38:32] was to put the vehicle, what we call the vehicle graveyard, which is 75 or 100 vehicles that have
[01:38:39] been blown up in Ramadi. And when they drag them back to base, they would just put them on into
[01:38:44] this field. And you every time you left base, you would see 100 of these mangled vehicles,
[01:38:52] burned out vehicles, and every one of those vehicles, you know that there was one, two, three, four
[01:38:59] military US military personnel that were wounded or burned or killed inside those vehicles. And
[01:39:04] that's what you got to see. And so Mark going out night after night, lead vehicle, lead turret
[01:39:12] gunner, never, never said, Hey, you know, can I go in the second vehicle? Can I go in the third
[01:39:19] vehicle? Can I go in the back? Never one time, just lead vehicle every time. Just taking just
[01:39:25] taking the all the odds and just saying, I got it, boys, don't worry about me. And you know, I
[01:39:31] would, you know, if I wasn't going out or not, I, you know, as the vehicles were lined up, I'd go
[01:39:35] out like, you know, make sure everyone's good to go. I'd give them a little hand salute as they were
[01:39:39] rolling out. And I was like, it was mar, it had to been marked 38th mission in a row of being in
[01:39:45] the lead vehicle. And I'm looking up at him and he's looking down at me and I'm like, Hey, bro,
[01:39:51] you feeling good? How you feeling? He's like, I'm feeling lucky, sir. Let's go. Like that was his
[01:39:57] attitude. Big smile. And it's a big smile. A big giant smile on his face. As he's getting ready
[01:40:05] for the 39th 40 47th time in a row to go out and go down those roads where
[01:40:12] the main road route Michigan in Ramadi had seven to 10 roadside bombs detonated on it a day.
[01:40:21] A day. And that's what he's rolling out to. And he's laughing. And he's smiling.
[01:40:25] But I think part of that was he was secure. He knew if anything happened,
[01:40:36] not that he wanted something to happen, but he knew if anything happened, he knew he was going.
[01:40:41] He knew when he got to heaven, there's no pain, no sorrow, no sickness. You know,
[01:40:45] lots of times I've thought about him up there in his onriness. I'm sure God's maybe sometimes going,
[01:40:50] oh boy, maybe we should send it back. But he's making heaven exciting. That's for sure. Not
[01:40:56] that it might have been exciting before, but he had that confidence. He knew that it wasn't over
[01:41:05] for him. It might be over for him here on earth, but he knew beyond a shadow of a doubt where he's
[01:41:12] going. And oftentimes, people tell me, oh, yeah, Mark's in Vahala, warrior's heaven,
[01:41:18] you know, because of what he did for his country. I'm like, okay, well, I would probably die from
[01:41:24] my country if it was needed, but I'm not going to be at a place probably where that's going to be
[01:41:29] required to me. But he knew. He knew 100%. You know, and for me, then, what's that mean for me?
[01:41:38] How do I get to heaven if I got to die for my country? No, Mark's in heaven because he knew
[01:41:43] Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior in the story, you know? It's not based on what we do
[01:41:48] or what we don't do or what we say or what we don't say, you know? Christ already paid that price
[01:41:53] for us and Mark knew that beat on to shadow of a doubt. And so I think that was the smile on his
[01:41:58] face. He wasn't scared, you know? He may have had fear and had that courage to push through it,
[01:42:03] but he knew the end of the story. Yeah. After seeing a lot of guys in a lot of tough situations,
[01:42:13] to not be able to really pick up an ounce of like hesitation from a guy is very rare.
[01:42:23] It's very rare. And so he definitely knew because you're going to show something. Yeah. And he didn't
[01:42:30] have any fear, which is incredible. So this is now like we're getting, we've been on deployment.
[01:42:41] Did you know, did you know Cowie came home? Did you even aware of that? No. No. So you're...
[01:42:47] I really did not know a lot about the team. I had met Bobby Gasoff, who was just swim buddy at,
[01:42:52] and I think Maddie Long, who was on three, but not on Charlie Petun or Taskin Ruzer.
[01:42:58] I met them briefly at graduation, but I didn't know any of the other guys, didn't know anything
[01:43:03] about really what was going on. Well, you know, obviously what I know now is what I've learned
[01:43:08] afterwards. But yeah. Yeah. So you're kind of tracking. And again, to me, it always, and I kind
[01:43:15] of relate it to my family, because my family is my wife, just not knowing what's going on. Like,
[01:43:22] she's just, and I don't, I think in a lot of ways she just didn't even want to know. She's like,
[01:43:26] Hey, you go do your thing. I do my thing. You take care of it. And same thing with my like,
[01:43:31] my kids, they were young at the time. So they were just, you know, I was just dad. He's not here.
[01:43:36] Where is he? Yeah, I don't know. But he's not here. He'll be home in a little while. My parents,
[01:43:40] just I'd been in the Navy my whole, you know, adult life. They were just used to me going on
[01:43:44] appointment. They wouldn't hear from me for a month or two. And then I'd, yep, everything's cool.
[01:43:49] So I think that sounds like that's where you were at too. Like, Hey, sounds on deployment.
[01:43:54] They're, that's me. I'll be back. Let's track it. You got an email in July, like a group email
[01:44:05] from Mark just before July 4th. Just after him. And I want to read this email.
[01:44:14] Mark says this glory is something that some men chase and others find themselves stumbling upon
[01:44:25] not expecting it to find them either way. It is a noble gesture that one finds bestowed upon them.
[01:44:32] My question is, when does glory fade away and become a wrongful crusade or an unjustified
[01:44:39] means by which consumes one completely? I've seen war. I've seen death, the sorrow that
[01:44:49] encompasses your entire being as a man breathes his last. I can only pray and hope that none of
[01:44:57] you will ever have to experience some of the things I have seen and felt here. I have felt fear.
[01:45:03] And if felt adrenaline pump through my veins, making me seem invincible, I will be honest and say
[01:45:09] that some of the things I've seen here are unjustified and uncalled for. However, for the most
[01:45:15] part, we are helping this country. It will take more years than most expect, but we will get Iraq
[01:45:22] to stand on its own feet. Most of what I've seen here will never, I will never really mention or
[01:45:30] speak of only due to the nature of those involved. I've seen a man give his food to a hungry child
[01:45:37] and family. Today, I saw a hospital that most of us would refuse to receive treatment from.
[01:45:44] The filth and smell would allow most of us to not be able to stand to enter, let alone get medicine
[01:45:50] from. However, you will be relieved to know that Coalition Forces has started to provide security
[01:45:57] for and supply medicine and equipment to help aid in the cause. I've seen amazing things happen here.
[01:46:06] However, I've seen the sad part of war too. I've seen the morals of a man who cares nothing
[01:46:12] of human life. I've seen hate towards a nation's people who has never committed a wrong, except
[01:46:18] being born of a third world, ill-educated and ignorant to Western civilization. It is not
[01:46:25] everybody who feels this way, only a select few, but it brings questions to mind. Is it okay for one
[01:46:31] to consider themselves superior to another race? Surprisingly, we are not a stranger to this
[01:46:39] sort of attitude, meaning that in our own country, we discriminate against someone for what nationality
[01:46:45] they are, their education level, their social status. We distinguish our role models as multimillion
[01:46:52] dollar sports heroes or talented actors and actresses who complain about not getting millions of
[01:46:58] dollars more than they are currently getting paid. Our country is a great country. Don't get me wrong
[01:47:05] on this, otherwise none of us would be living there. My point of this is how can we come over here
[01:47:12] and help a less than fortunate country without holding contempt or hate towards them if we can't
[01:47:18] do it in our country? I try to do my part over here, but the truth is over there in the United States,
[01:47:27] I do nothing but take. Ask yourself, when was the last time you donated clothes that you hadn't worn out?
[01:47:38] When was the last time you paid for a random stranger's cup of coffee, meal, or even maybe a tank of gas?
[01:47:46] When was the last time you helped a person with the groceries into or out of their car?
[01:47:53] Think to yourself and wonder what it would feel like if when the bill for the meal came and you
[01:47:59] were told it was already paid for. More random acts of kindness like this would change our country
[01:48:06] and our reputation as a country. It is not unknown to most of us that the rest of the world looks at
[01:48:14] us without towards our humanity and morals. I am not here to preach or to say look at me
[01:48:22] because I am just as at fault as the next person. I find that being here makes me realize the great
[01:48:31] country we have and the obligation we have to keep it that way. The fourth has just come and gone
[01:48:38] and I received many emails thanking me for helping America great, keep America great and free.
[01:48:47] I take no credit for the career path I have chosen. I can only give it to those of you
[01:48:53] who are reading this because each one of you has contributed to me and who I am. However,
[01:49:02] what I do over here is only a small percent of what keeps our country great. I think the truth
[01:49:09] to our greatness is each other. Purity, morals and kindness pass down to each generation through
[01:49:19] example. So to all my family and friends, do me a favor and pass on the kindness, the love,
[01:49:28] the precious gift of human life to each other so that when your children come into contact with a
[01:49:34] great conflict that we are now faced with here in Iraq, that they are people of humanity,
[01:49:40] of pure motives, of compassion. This is our real part to keep America free. Happy fourth, love you,
[01:49:51] love you, Mark Lee, PS halfway through the deployment. Can't wait to see all of your faces.
[01:50:01] Was that an indicator of some of the heaviness that was happening with Mark?
[01:50:21] Yeah, I think very much so. You listen to that letter and you see the transformation
[01:50:31] that happened for Mark, what he saw over there, what he endured. The humbleness, the reality to say,
[01:50:39] oh my gosh, I'm not any different than the rest of you. When I was there, all I did was take.
[01:50:43] You know, he realized the blessings that we do have and I've never been able to get
[01:50:52] through that letter without getting choked up at the end where he says halfway through the
[01:50:55] deployment. Can't wait to see your faces. And I know one day I'll see him again
[01:51:03] and he successfully completed his mission. He did what he was supposed to do over there.
[01:51:09] But for us, we're halfway through the deployment. There's still something we're here and we're
[01:51:14] supposed to do. And that was Mark's challenge. But there's, I mean, we could do a whole podcast
[01:51:20] on dissecting just that letter apart and what he talks in there. Talks about the country and the
[01:51:25] great country we have and the obligation we have to keep it that way. And you see so many people
[01:51:29] coming into our country and trying to change it into something else. You see people, I sent Colin
[01:51:34] Kavernick in that letter when he wouldn't stand for the national anthem or for the flag. And I was
[01:51:41] like, yeah, it was the national anthem at the flag. But I said, you know, Colin, my son even
[01:51:47] talked about you in his last letter home, you know, multi-million-dollar sports figures,
[01:51:51] complain. And I said, Mark stood. He didn't kneel. He didn't sit. He stood for what he believed in
[01:51:59] this country. You know, you need to stand for what you believe in here. If you want to make a difference,
[01:52:05] go do something to make a difference. Of course, we never saw him impact anything there.
[01:52:09] I'm like that red stripe on that flag that represents my son's blood, you will not disrespect
[01:52:14] that. And so many others have given so much. You know, he talks about the random acts of kindness.
[01:52:21] You know, that's kind of how the foundation, you know, not officially, but that's how I started
[01:52:25] doing those things. On or Mark, I could pay for a stranger's cup of coffee. I could pay for a meal,
[01:52:30] tank of gas back then wasn't as expensive as it is now, but I could do those things. I understood
[01:52:37] the price that was being paid and the sacrifices that were made for me. That's a pretty simple
[01:52:41] thing to go up and say, hey, I'm going to buy your coffee. Thank you. You know, let me buy your tank
[01:52:46] of gas. Let me buy your meal. You know, it talks about opening a door for, you know, someone or
[01:52:52] helping them with their groceries, enter out of their car. What's happened to America that we've
[01:52:57] gotten so far away from that? You know, and to end that with to my family and friends, do me a favor.
[01:53:05] Pass on the kindness, the love, the precious gift of human life. We understand that precious gift and
[01:53:13] how quickly it can be gone. But holy cow is America. What's happened to us? Why can't we
[01:53:19] pass on that kindness? We can have different opinions. That's what you guys fought for so we
[01:53:23] get out of those different opinions. But that doesn't mean you need to be so mean and hateful
[01:53:28] to people. And I just really think some of those things, basically, if we did those as humans that
[01:53:34] Mark challenged us to do, we'd be living in a different world. And you know, when I first got
[01:53:40] that, like I said, it came as an email. It was about two weeks before he died. And it wasn't
[01:53:46] supposed to be that if you're reading this, I'm gone. And I read through it on the computer and
[01:53:52] I was like, who wrote this? And you know, Mark was not stupid by any means, but language, I had not
[01:53:58] seen that as a strength or you know, his forte. And so I scroll back to the top to see who sent
[01:54:04] the email. I'm like, dang, you know, that was Mark. And you just feel the changes
[01:54:09] that took place in not just his mind and his heart. And after he passed, man, who then that
[01:54:20] letter was even more significant, the meaning of that and the impact and literally, Jaco, I don't
[01:54:29] millions and millions of lives have been changed by Mark. I never would have thought when I held
[01:54:35] him as a little baby in the midst all those struggles. Like I said, I didn't have high goals
[01:54:40] for him. Nobody's pregnant. Nobody's now calling. Nobody's drug addict at 18. I'm good. And to see
[01:54:46] that, but that came through the struggles that came through the perseverance of what we went through.
[01:54:56] And those are the things that mold us and shape us, you know, and what he saw over there.
[01:55:02] You know, he's talking about Saddam about, you know, the man who cares nothing, you know, about moral life.
[01:55:08] And on my first trip over, I was at Biop, which is in Baghdad, which is the main base there for you guys.
[01:55:15] And there's a lot of Saddam's palaces. And the one of the palaces there was where he would have his way,
[01:55:23] you know, with a virgin, and then he either behead them or throw them off the balcony.
[01:55:26] And then he'd put a heart on the lattice to remember them by. I'm like, what kind of sick person does something like that?
[01:55:34] You know, and obviously he didn't care about human life. He had no morals, you know, he put all the waterways
[01:55:40] around his palaces because he figured that, you know, Allah wouldn't be able to see his sin if he, you know,
[01:55:46] put the water around him like, well, you don't think your God's big enough to look right down at what you're doing.
[01:55:50] But there's some evil, evil stuff in this world.
[01:55:54] And that we've got men like Mark, men like you, so many others that are willing to confront that evil that most of us in America have never even seen.
[01:56:04] Or hopefully never will see. Mark talks about that, you know?
[01:56:08] And it's just amazing, you know, you talked about his humor and who he was.
[01:56:14] Yeah, what a caring, compassionate, and his words, words of wisdom, what a great man he is.
[01:56:22] His words, words of wisdom way beyond his 28 years.
[01:56:26] Most of us takes a lifetime to get that.
[01:56:30] You know, I just, I would encourage everybody that's listening to go to our website.
[01:56:35] You can read that on our website at americasmightywarriors.org.
[01:56:39] Powerful, powerful letter.
[01:56:42] Um, August 2nd.
[01:56:52] And this is what I kind of covered in the opening of this podcast.
[01:56:58] You know, the guys are out, they're doing a clearance.
[01:57:02] This is, this was just the daily basis doing big clearances, supporting big big clearances.
[01:57:10] Ryan gets wounded and, you know, it seemed like Ryan may die.
[01:57:18] He was, I mean, he shot in the face. I mean, it's horrible.
[01:57:24] When that happens, you know, it's on a rooftop and it's a single shot boom.
[01:57:33] And what does Mark do? Mark steps right into where Ryan was to lay down suppressive fire so the guys can get to, so the corpsman can get up there and get Ryan to cover and start getting it worked on.
[01:57:46] So like out of the gate, this is just what, this is what Mark is doing.
[01:57:51] Um, they get Ryan evacuated. And again, I'm talking to Laph and Laph was not optimistic.
[01:57:59] And they, they go back to combat outpost Falcon.
[01:58:06] And this is, this is Laph and Laph's platoon. This is truck doing so it's Laph. It's BTF Tony, Chris Kyle, Kevin Lace is there.
[01:58:13] Jason Hogan. I mean, there's a bunch of other guys, obviously.
[01:58:16] Um, but a bunch of great guys, they're all, you know, they're obviously, they're worried about Ryan and everything.
[01:58:27] And when this happens with Ryan and these guys go back to combat outpost Falcon, um, you know, the army goes out and they go, they start going hard.
[01:58:38] And it's Mike Baima and the, he's the company commander from the one three seven from the bandits and they go out and they start meeting really fierce resistance.
[01:58:49] And they eventually find some buildings like where they think they've got the enemy. Um, they ask Laph like, Hey, can you, can you guys come out and hit some of these buildings?
[01:59:03] And that's when Laph called me and he's like, Hey, the Iraqis aren't going. The Iraqis are too scared. We're going. I'm like Roger.
[01:59:11] Um, you know, this is again, this is what I read in the beginning. I'm watching the Bradleys go out.
[01:59:19] Um, seeing them hit the first, uh, buildings and then they moved to this other building and actually one of, uh, the assistant platoon commanders, great guy under Laph.
[01:59:33] I remember talking to him and he, like as they pull up to the second building, there's, they're in a Bradley fighting vehicle and there's rounds hitting the Bradley fighting vehicle.
[01:59:43] And, and this assistant platoon commander is trying to yell to the tank, to the Bradley crew, don't open the door.
[01:59:54] He's like trying to get their attention and it's too loud and they just open the door. And so then what do you do? You go. And that's what they did.
[02:00:01] Um, and, you know, it opened. They assaulted the building.
[02:00:08] Um, once they're in the building, you know, there's, there's stairs going up. They're taking fire and, and Mark, instead of taking cover instead of hiding, he, he steps out into the line of fire to protect his brothers.
[02:00:24] And, you know, he's killed. Um, this is all taking place the morning of August 2nd in Iraq. So back here, it's 11 hours ahead in Iraq.
[02:00:46] So it's probably late at night here. Um, you're, you're probably at least going to bed or you're getting ready to go to bed and going to sleep.
[02:00:56] What are you doing? What were you doing on August 2nd when you wake up in the morning? What, what's going on?
[02:01:03] There's a, I know that from our perspective, I mentioned that, you know, when someone gets killed, you immediately stop all communications because the, the,
[02:01:14] they want the notification process to take place and you don't want to get to the news. You don't definitely don't want someone, some family member to be watching the news.
[02:01:21] So it's a race. What are you doing on August 2nd?
[02:01:27] I don't remember when I woke up that morning, what I was doing, but I know that there was, and I know Mark had changed the paperwork.
[02:01:36] I had moved from Oregon where I raised them pretty much down to Arizona and I know he'd called and got the new address and new information as he was updating his paperwork before he left.
[02:01:47] But for whatever reason, they were trying to find me up in Oregon where I'd lived.
[02:01:53] And, you know, we send in the SEAL community, we send our own KACO group up there. So that group was up in Oregon.
[02:02:02] And the building, you know, where I lived, I still own, but there wasn't, it was empty.
[02:02:07] And they had been there for about eight hours trying to find, finally they knocked on one of the neighbors.
[02:02:12] They said, well, she doesn't live here anymore. She lives down in Arizona.
[02:02:16] So this is the evening by that point. And like you said, they're afraid I'm going to find out on the news.
[02:02:23] So they called, Luke Air Force Base isn't too far from me, so they called there and they had a small detachment of Navy that's there and sent out the Navy KACO officer and a chaplain.
[02:02:33] And I was gone that night. I was actually at my Bible study at my small group.
[02:02:38] And they waited for a while and then knocked on the neighbor's door and her husband had served in the military.
[02:02:44] So she kind of had a clue of what was going on. She didn't have my cell phone number, didn't know how to get a hold of me.
[02:02:50] And she said, well, I know Debbie's son works at Lowe's, you know, the Lowe's just down the street.
[02:02:55] So they called Christopher and again, he's served in the Marines.
[02:03:00] You know, when they show up at your house, it's not good. If Margaret had been wounded, you know, they'd have got word to us and got us to him.
[02:03:09] And so, oddly enough, we were celebrating my birthday that night. We hadn't met the week before, which my birthday was the Wednesday before Mark died on a Wednesday.
[02:03:18] And we'd had missionaries that were there speaking to our small group.
[02:03:24] And they're telling this story about Cuba and I think it was his brother-in-law and how, you know, they had been captured for being a spy or something.
[02:03:34] And two guys showed up at the wife's door and knocked on the door and said, you need to grab your children and come with us if you want to see your husband again.
[02:03:41] And as they go through the story, it ends up at Navy Seals. I'm like, oh, my son's a Navy Seal. You know, he's in Maudi.
[02:03:50] Of course, at that point, he'd already passed. But we got done. We were celebrating my birthday and my girlfriend gave me one of those willow tree angels.
[02:03:58] And those are the wooden angels with the wire wings. And each one usually has a character quality and the one she gave me was courage.
[02:04:06] And this is before we found out about Mark. And she just said, with all you've been through in your life, you just remind me of such a woman of courage.
[02:04:14] You still are positive. You still serve God. You're not a negative person. You're not a hateful person.
[02:04:19] And little did we know how much more courage was going to be required in the next half hour.
[02:04:25] And I always turned my phone off that night I hadn't. And Christopher called. Nothing in his voice to alert me.
[02:04:32] He wasn't speaking too fast. He wasn't crying. He's like, hey, mom, where are you?
[02:04:36] I'm like, Wednesday night, I'm at my Bible study. Why what's up?
[02:04:40] And he said, how long will it take you to get home? That's an odd question.
[02:04:45] I said, I don't know. Five minutes, seven minutes. Why what's up?
[02:04:49] And he said, you just need to come home.
[02:04:54] And I knew, I knew at that point what was going to face me when I got home.
[02:05:00] And I grabbed my purse and I just told everybody, please be praying something's not right.
[02:05:05] And I got my car and there was a song from my past and it says, I put my hope in you, oh Lord, trusting you, I will not be shaken.
[02:05:12] Knowing that you will see me through, I put my hope in you and I just sang that over and over and over and over.
[02:05:18] And I got to the main intersection by my house and there was probably three or four fire trucks and a couple police cars and ambulances.
[02:05:26] And I'm like, my house blew up. That's all that's wrong.
[02:05:30] And trust me, I would have rather lost all my worldly possessions.
[02:05:34] It still had mark. And to this day, I have no idea how I got through that intersection, but I got back into my subdivision.
[02:05:40] There are no more emergency vehicles. So I went back to, I know it's going to face me when I get home.
[02:05:46] And as I turned the corner, I expected to see a black car parked there.
[02:05:50] I guess I've watched too many movies, but there was no black car. There was no unusual car.
[02:05:54] They'd parked down the street a ways.
[02:05:58] And my oldest son, Christopher, was just pacing back and forth on the sidewalk.
[02:06:02] And he said, Mom, the Navy's here.
[02:06:06] And I remember just putting my head on his shoulder and crying and saying, oh, oh.
[02:06:16] And we walked in the house and of course they'd been in my house for a little bit because they were trying to find me.
[02:06:20] I guess I could be elusive at times. And they said, we can tell by being in your home, you're a woman of faith.
[02:06:26] You need to rely on your faith for what we're about to tell you.
[02:06:30] Your son, Mark Gowden Lee, has been killed in action.
[02:06:36] And as you can imagine, the most devastating word you could ever hear as a parent.
[02:06:44] And yet even at that moment, I knew where my strength was going to come from.
[02:06:52] I knew that God was going to see me through. I knew this would be much harder than losing my husband.
[02:06:58] But I knew he would see me through. And my circumstances had drastically changed that day.
[02:07:06] But my God had not. He was still the same God on August 2nd as he was on August 1st. His character hadn't changed.
[02:07:15] And we went and sat on the couch and I've got a skinny window next to my door,
[02:07:20] did in the other house that I lived in at the time.
[02:07:23] I looked outside and my friends were from my small group were all standing outside.
[02:07:26] I'm like, what the heck? Get in here. I need you in here.
[02:07:31] And the neighbor next door was from New York, very proper. And he's like, oh no, you don't go in there. You give them time.
[02:07:40] And so they came in and we just talked about Mark and tried to process it.
[02:07:44] And we cried and prayed and cried and cried.
[02:07:48] They stayed for a couple hours and it was probably about 11 o'clock and everybody had left.
[02:07:54] My son Christopher was still there. He served in the Marines. He was in Okinawa for five years or plus.
[02:08:00] He met his wife over there and she, before they had five kids, would go home every year for six weeks.
[02:08:08] And my daughter and my daughter-in-law had both just lost babies the year before at five and a half months in their pregnancy,
[02:08:16] which is pretty unusually, lose a child that far along.
[02:08:20] And of course our first thought was, oh no, no more lost, no more babies.
[02:08:24] They were just both three months in their pregnancy.
[02:08:26] And so he had decided to protect her to not tell her what was going on.
[02:08:30] He knew that she'd be back home before the funeral.
[02:08:33] And how he did that, struggling with probably the toughest pain he's ever known,
[02:08:40] and not tell his wife and carry on conversations, is beyond me.
[02:08:43] But he said, Mom, I'm going to stay here tonight. I said, thank you, son.
[02:08:50] He said, I'm going to try to get some sleep. I'm like, OK, long noon, there was no way sleep was coming to me.
[02:08:56] And I just wanted somebody to hold me and tell me it's going to be OK. We'll get through this.
[02:09:02] At that point I'd been a widow for 12 years, and so there was nobody there.
[02:09:07] And I remember thinking, OK, God's promised to be a husband of the widow and a father to the fatherless.
[02:09:13] I know where my strength is going to come.
[02:09:16] And so I went and grabbed my Bible and just opened it and opened to Psalms 27.
[02:09:20] That's right where it plopped open.
[02:09:22] It said, Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear?
[02:09:26] The Lord is the strength of my life. Of whom shall I be afraid?
[02:09:30] When the wicked came against me to eat up my flesh, my enemies and my foes, they stumbled and they fell.
[02:09:37] Though an army may rise against me, I will not fear.
[02:09:42] The war may come against me, and I read that going, oh my goodness, did you write this today for me for my first circumstances?
[02:09:51] And the end of it says, I would have lost hope if I had not believed I'd see the goodness of the Lord and the land of the living.
[02:09:59] Wait on the Lord. Be of good courage, and I will strengthen your heart.
[02:10:05] Wait, I stand, Lord, and I close my Bible and I saw that courage thing again.
[02:10:09] I saw that the courage angel at the beginning of the night. Now God's reminding me again, courage.
[02:10:14] I'm like, I got it, Lord.
[02:10:16] And as I sat there and was praying, I've never audibly heard God speak, but in my thoughts he said,
[02:10:22] I want you to read this at Mark's funeral. I want you to give everybody else the same hope that I've given you.
[02:10:31] As I said, I was a rebel in my 20s, and my teenagers too.
[02:10:35] God says he hates seven things, and I'd done six of them. I was faithful in my marriage.
[02:10:40] You can go read the rest of them. I don't want to get into all that, but I've learned that if he asked me to do something, to just obey and do it.
[02:10:48] It may not make any sense. He tells us his ways are not our ways.
[02:10:51] But I'm sure I kind of was like a teenager and kind of went, are you kidding me, God?
[02:10:56] It's my son's funeral. I don't know if I'll throw up or pass out. I don't know what I'll do.
[02:11:02] And I pause and I say, I will walk through whatever doors you open, thinking it just meant to speak at Mark's funeral.
[02:11:10] I know that if God would have told me what he had in store in all the different places that I'd be,
[02:11:15] at one point I spoke in front of a million people in the mall in Washington, D.C.
[02:11:20] And I was terrified, terrified to speak in front of people.
[02:11:24] The preschool and kindergarten, we had two programs a year, one at Christmas and one at the kindergarten graduation.
[02:11:29] I would literally hold the microphone with both hands and it'd still be bouncing all over,
[02:11:34] because I was terrified to be in front of people.
[02:11:37] So this was not my comfort zone. This wasn't something I'm like, oh yeah, I'm such a great speaker.
[02:11:41] Yeah, this would be awesome. I'm like, okay.
[02:11:44] And to see what he's done and the toughest thing that I could go through in life
[02:11:51] and how he's taken that, taken Mark's Royce's story to continue to impact people and change the world
[02:12:00] is nothing but a miracle.
[02:12:03] But again, the toughest pain I've ever known, you know, you can't avoid pain.
[02:12:11] You've got to walk right through the middle of it. You can't go around it over it.
[02:12:16] You can't get stuck in it because then you don't heal and you don't get to the healthier side.
[02:12:21] But all the reading I've done on grief that said that's the toughest thing you could ever go through is the instant death of a child.
[02:12:28] And I would have to agree with that. You know, granted, my husband wasn't the love of my life that I'd been married to for 50 years,
[02:12:35] but much tougher, much tougher.
[02:12:39] But so proud of Mark. I look forward to that day when I do get to see him again, give him another big hug, you know,
[02:12:48] kick him in the butt and say, okay, why did you not tell us you were married?
[02:12:52] But if I know anything, I know God doesn't waste pain, you know.
[02:13:00] If we allow him, he will take that and use that for his glory.
[02:13:04] And, you know, in his wisdom, he doesn't have in me, I'm not flying planes going, oh, well, yeah, it's just because I'm so good at this.
[02:13:11] That's why it's working. It's like, no, no, you don't understand.
[02:13:14] I don't have any skills or talents to be a public speaker, never taking classes on it.
[02:13:19] You know, it's just going through that life experience.
[02:13:25] And really, what am I going to be afraid of? Mark ran into the line of fire?
[02:13:29] How many times just on his final day, I'm going to be afraid of speaking in front of people? Yeah, I don't think so.
[02:13:39] The, as I mentioned in the beginning, you know, basically, as soon as we found out that you had been notified, you know, we get the word,
[02:13:50] and then guys start calling, calling you to talk to you. And it's actually all happening from my, I have an office in the tactical operations center with the direct landline to America.
[02:14:01] And so guys are coming in, calling from there. And again, our attitude was, we're going to have to be consoling, you know, Mark's mom.
[02:14:14] And it was literally the opposite. It was literally the opposite. You know, it was my guys that needed consoling.
[02:14:23] You were the one that was saying, you know, what do you need? What can I send you? What do you, how can I help you guys?
[02:14:30] And I mean, so it was like this courage that you had gotten the message on you immediately put into action.
[02:14:43] And then it was just for us to be able to talk to you, the guys talking to you and hearing your voice and your encouragement is what allowed guys to be able to say,
[02:15:08] okay, you know, we can move forward. And, and, you know, that scene of coming out of Charlie Med and seeing all those soldiers and Marines just lined up and, you know, that's like,
[02:15:22] sometimes people will attempt to bait me into saying something negative about the army of the Marine Corps and they can't do it.
[02:15:30] Nothing but love for those guys. When did you, so we sent guys home, guys came home with Mark, you know, guys escorted Mark home.
[02:15:48] When did you start meeting the guys from the task unit from Charlie between from task unit bruiser?
[02:15:54] And it was, excuse me, I think it was the majority of you guys, it was when you came back from that deployment.
[02:16:06] I yesterday were at the funeral and I was like, who spoke at Mark's funeral?
[02:16:12] I'm like, how can you not remember your son's ceremony and who spoke and I remember being in another one in the same. It was at the chapel there on North Island.
[02:16:24] I remember being later at another funeral there. I'm like, did we have Mark's gasket in here? I don't remember. I'm like, but I think just part of that, it's too much.
[02:16:32] So you just don't remember it.
[02:16:35] So I don't, I know Bobby Gasoff. At first that was his Mark's swim buddy and yeah, man, that's a pretty tight connection with your swim buddy.
[02:16:45] And they weren't going to send him at first because they said, no, he's in too much pain. This is not who we send.
[02:16:50] And of course now they've learned that that is.
[02:16:53] And they said Commodore Pibus at the time, now Admiral Pibus was on our doorstep the next morning. And you know, Sean, you know, what a compassionate, caring man.
[02:17:07] And again, I still don't even at that point didn't understand the ranks. I knew Admiral was something special, but an admiral showing up on my doorstep.
[02:17:16] Granted, he was Commodore. Would he have been an admiral as a Commodore?
[02:17:19] No, he was a captain.
[02:17:21] I always had the hardest time with the Commodore thing. I'm like, yeah, it's like a position, not a rank position, not a rank.
[02:17:28] But he was there at the door. And I remember them saying, what else can we do for you? I'm like, give me Bobby Gasoff. I want Bobby here.
[02:17:37] And so they did get Bobby home. I think he might have been in the Philippines at the time he stayed with me. He and his wife stayed with us for a week.
[02:17:46] But I don't even remember who the other one was. I know later that Brian Yarbo told me he was one of them that escorted Mark home.
[02:17:53] And I want to say, was Jason Hogan the other one or do you remember?
[02:17:56] I think so. Yeah. We sent a few, it was a few guys. It was a few guys we sent home.
[02:18:01] Yeah.
[02:18:02] And then obviously we sent guys home with Mike too. And when guys came home with Mikey, they were coming home like, we knew that they weren't coming back because it was the end of deployment.
[02:18:11] Right.
[02:18:12] I can't remember exactly which guys went with Mark and which guys went with Mikey because some of them came back.
[02:18:21] Right. And it was pretty close. It was like 7, 7 1⁄2 weeks. But I think the majority of that started by phone calls and emails while you guys were still deployed.
[02:18:31] You know, I remember thinking, oh my gosh, I can't make any decisions. My brain is mush. Holy cow. Those guys are in combat.
[02:18:41] They've got life or death decisions they've got to make. And once I realized having Mark's brothers in our home for the week, wow, you guys love Mark as much as we did and you were hurting just as, and that's how I'm like, oh, the brotherhood thing, I got it now.
[02:18:57] It makes sense. And so my concern for you guys is you're in that combat zone. You're still going out on patrol.
[02:19:06] Man, how are you guys going to deal with this? How are you guys going to process and stay safe? You know, and you, you know, I think it was late for was the one I'm like, you guys go back out there.
[02:19:17] You go get some, you know, don't don't hang in your rooms and, you know, Mark would want you to continue the mission.
[02:19:26] But that's really when those relationships started. I got a copy of the Charlie Batoon picture and I'd say, okay, who's the one on the left? And I'd write the name down.
[02:19:36] Okay, the tall guy in the middle, who's that? And of course they gave me their name names. And then they talk about Biff or I'm like, I don't have a Biff on the sheet. Who's Biff?
[02:19:48] You know, and then I learned, okay, most of them have other names that they go by. But and I get phone calls even from some of the moms of the guys, you know, checking on me and I knew, I didn't know I was going to start a foundation.
[02:20:04] But we had a lot of support up to the funeral. And then I live in Arizona. I'm not near a base. I'm not here, you know, San Diego or, you know, the rest of the community is or major part of it.
[02:20:17] But once funerals over there, there was nothing. I mean, other than talking to you guys over there, it just, you know, it stopped.
[02:20:26] And I'm like, oh, cred, well, it's just starting for me now. The process, the journey of grief is just starting. And I've never been one to feel sorry for myself.
[02:20:36] I was like, okay, I can't change anything you think for myself, but I can change it so nobody else has to go through without having support there. Somebody that knows what it's like.
[02:20:46] So when I got the call that Mikey had died, I knew I had to be there. I didn't know what I was going to do, but I just knew I had to be there.
[02:20:53] And then that was about the time, you know, the first ones were starting to come back home. And I'm like, man, I got to be there for my boys, not to be, oh my gosh, there's poor Mark's mom.
[02:21:05] But to say, woohoo, the rest of my boys are home. You know, thank you, thank you.
[02:21:10] And, you know, so was here and then came over for the funeral. I remember coming over and it was the same hotel where they'd put us up for Mark's funeral.
[02:21:21] Same black vehicles, I don't know, it was the exact same, but, you know, that black SUV that you guys have. And I was standing down there that morning,
[02:21:29] giving, you know, Sally and the family big hugs and said, I'm so sorry. And Admiral McGuire came down and asked how I was doing.
[02:21:41] So, hanging in there. And he said, we want you to go in the vehicle with the family.
[02:21:48] And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, I'm not here. This is not about Mark. This is not about me at all. I'm just here to support the family.
[02:21:54] And they said, exactly, you know, and almost a panic, you know, here we got another one, you know, we thought we were good for a while.
[02:22:02] And now, seven weeks later, we got another one. And he said, exactly, that's why we want you in the vehicle to support them.
[02:22:09] I'm like, okay. So now I'm in the vehicle reliving, going back up to Fort Roast Cranes, same casket Mark was buried in, same place.
[02:22:19] Although now, I know what it's like to get the folded flag. I know what it's to be done with the funeral and start that grieving process.
[02:22:27] I'm out of just, you know, the little bit of the wound that was starting to heal was now ripping open.
[02:22:33] But still, I knew it was the right thing. I knew that's what we're supposed to be to support this family, just to be there.
[02:22:38] I didn't have anything planned. I didn't, you know, just to be there. And that's why I tell people all the time, when someone's grieving, just be there.
[02:22:47] Don't worry about what you should say, what you shouldn't say, should I take anything, should I not take anything, just be there.
[02:22:53] It means so much to have someone else there with you. If they want to talk about it, they'll probably open up and start talking about it.
[02:23:01] You don't need to worry. You know, it's not like I don't remember that, you know, I had a son, Mark, and what happened to him.
[02:23:08] But it's so important to be there. And that was really the first family that we supported.
[02:23:14] You know, we got pretty close to the Montsour family. And, you know, Sally just passed away a couple months ago.
[02:23:22] And so we were there again, you know, to be able to support and honor Mikey. But because I love that family, I understand their sacrifice.
[02:23:30] And that's really what started the America's Mighty Warriors process, thinking.
[02:23:37] And then I would just happen to be in Washington, D.C. when J. Redmond was there, you know, before even the note was posted on the door of, you know,
[02:23:46] don't feel sorry for me. If you're coming in here to feel sorry for me, I earned these wounds doing what I, you know, love doing and don't, I don't need your sympathy.
[02:23:54] I was in the hospital when Dan Knotsen was brought down from surgery. I just happened to be in Washington, D.C.
[02:24:03] So these things just kept happening. That is my spiritual gift is to be an encourager and, you know, to support people.
[02:24:12] And so that's where my strength, that's where I work well when I'm doing those things.
[02:24:18] And then after a while, I'm like, ah, okay, I get it. I think there's a mission ahead. I don't think I'm just supposed to do this once or twice.
[02:24:25] And, you know, that's when I'm like, okay, I can't continue to afford to fund this on my own dime. So we really do need to.
[02:24:33] So officially we started the foundation in 2008. And the name of it, America's Mighty Warriors, the meaning of the name Mark means Mighty Warrior.
[02:24:44] You know, he definitely lived up to his name.
[02:24:46] Didn't you get that name from like a menu or something?
[02:24:49] Great. Did Mark put that in your head to tell me that?
[02:24:52] I think he told me a long time ago. He's always like, great, you got my name from a menu, mom.
[02:24:56] That's what it is, right?
[02:24:57] And it was. It was from a menu. As I mentioned, I'd already gone through the divorce. I was by myself here. I'm having this baby.
[02:25:03] I have a three and a half year old, two year old, and now another little one.
[02:25:07] Of course, back then you stayed three days in the hospital. That was common. It was rare that they let you go before that.
[02:25:15] And they always ask, do you have small children and do you have help?
[02:25:19] I'm like, yes, I have small children. No, I have no help.
[02:25:23] And I knew that they heard two heartbeats. I knew that I knew that I knew I was having twin girls.
[02:25:30] So I had names picked out for girls, but no boy names.
[02:25:34] And they came in the day after he was born and said, you got to go home. We need your bed.
[02:25:40] And I'm like, buh-buh, I don't have help. And I've smoked in there like, sorry.
[02:25:46] So they said, you've got to name the baby before you go home.
[02:25:49] And no one to discuss it with, no one to figure it out.
[02:25:53] And he was born in March. I looked down at the menu for the day that was on my tray table, and the H was covered up.
[02:26:00] And I saw MARC. Being a Debbie, everybody in my era, at least half the world I think was named Debbie.
[02:26:08] We were trillers, ten of us. Five of us were named Debbie.
[02:26:12] And you'd say Debbie and half the hall would go, huh? And I'm like, I don't want that for my kids.
[02:26:17] I want them to have an individual name. But that was also in the hippie era.
[02:26:22] So you were getting some really funky names that they were naming their kids.
[02:26:25] And I didn't want them to have weird names.
[02:26:28] Leave that to me.
[02:26:31] But so when I saw MARC with a C, because back then everybody was spelling MARC with a K.
[02:26:37] And I did not know at the time it meant Mighty Warrior. But that's where the name of our foundation is, America's Mighty Warriors.
[02:26:44] Because it's not just about MARC. Obviously MARC's the story we tell.
[02:26:49] MARC's the reason that we do what we do.
[02:26:52] But it's about every man and woman who's served. It's about every other family who's lost a loved one.
[02:26:58] You know, and that's been, you know, a lot of work, a lot of challenges.
[02:27:04] But man, what a blessing, what a reward to be able to have that relationship.
[02:27:10] I had a call from one of the other guys, a team guy that we're helping.
[02:27:13] Haven't heard from him for a while. He goes, I don't know you well. It wasn't any of MARC's teammates.
[02:27:18] You know, they're really close ones.
[02:27:20] But there's something unique about my relationship with even ones that I first meet.
[02:27:28] You know, and he said, he's having some struggles.
[02:27:31] He said, you were the first one I thought of to be able to reach out to.
[02:27:36] And that God has given me that blessing, that honor to be able to be there and to understand and give you guys hope and encouragement.
[02:27:46] Now, I'm not going to baby you. If you think you're coming to Pomeleon.
[02:27:50] I'm so sorry, poor little guy. Why don't you go lay down again?
[02:27:55] No, I'm going to listen. I'm going to hear you out. I'm going to validate it.
[02:27:58] Then I'm going to say, get your butt up. Here's what you need to do. You know, lovingly.
[02:28:02] But you guys don't need somebody pampering a baby in you guys. That's not who you are.
[02:28:09] You know, and I will do that, you know, till God gives me my final breath to be able to continue to support you guys and be there for you.
[02:28:20] So you started it in 2008?
[02:28:23] Officially.
[02:28:24] Officially.
[02:28:25] With the IRS. Yes.
[02:28:26] That's when you went through all that process.
[02:28:29] And then, I mean, it's September 2009 is when we lost Ryan.
[02:28:37] Yeah.
[02:28:39] And that was like, so unexpected.
[02:28:44] And, you know, we kind of thought like you're beyond, you think you're okay.
[02:28:50] You're home.
[02:28:51] Yeah.
[02:28:52] It's not going to happen. You're home. You're safe. Same thing with Chris. Same thing with Seth. You know, you're just like, wait, he did all those paddles.
[02:29:00] Ryan survived. Like he said, well, the guy said they didn't think there was any way he could survive those wounds.
[02:29:06] He did. He thrived. He didn't just survive. You know, I've got still a pound of the elk meat in my freezer that I'll never eat from the elk that he went out and shot as a blind person.
[02:29:17] You know, he had, you know, just completed. I don't know if it's his bachelor's or his master's.
[02:29:24] Yeah. That he just completed.
[02:29:26] Got his degree.
[02:29:27] You know, he called.
[02:29:28] Yeah, exactly. He called. We all found this out later. Everybody's saying, guess what? I'm going to be a daddy.
[02:29:36] But don't say anything because I'm not supposed to tell anybody. But he called everybody. He didn't tell everybody.
[02:29:43] Yeah. And just so, so tragic. It didn't have to be, you know.
[02:29:54] And then, and then it was like Chris, which again, just so out of, so totally unexpected.
[02:30:06] Yeah.
[02:30:07] And I know you would become really close with Chris. You know, I was, obviously, Chris being such a legendary figure and how he's portrayed all the time.
[02:30:21] And, you know, whenever I'm talking to someone like, like personally talking to someone that wants to know about Chris, if I know them, you know, having a conversation with a little more depth.
[02:30:35] You know, the one story I always tell people about Chris is that when at the memorial service we did for Mark in Ramadi, like, you know, guys got up and talked and, you know, read things or, you know, told little anecdotal stories about Mark.
[02:30:56] And like Chris couldn't do it. And when we got done, like he was crying so hard and he was apologizing to me. He's like, I'm sorry. He was just breaking down. He just couldn't do it.
[02:31:09] And that's, you know, that's, I know that it doesn't get portrayed that way. But that's, that was Chris. Like Chris just was heartbroken.
[02:31:21] And I know that he had become really close with you. And yeah, then so that just was another just completely and utterly unexpected.
[02:31:32] Yeah.
[02:31:33] Well, and it was, I had a more physical violent reaction when I found out about Chris than I did with Mark.
[02:31:41] Obviously, my pain was much more intense for Mark, my son. But I actually threw up and I was freaked out. I'm just like, and I had found out that he probably had been killed before his wife had had did.
[02:31:57] And I knew I just talked to her and she didn't know. And so then I'm, you know, they're like, we're in route, we're in route, we're going to tell her.
[02:32:04] But it was just like, another one. You know, and I thought about that. And I thought, this is so painful. You know, how much of this can you endure?
[02:32:18] And as I thought about that, I'm like, okay, well, the other option is not to have known you guys, not to have been close to you.
[02:32:25] I'm like, nope, that's not an option. This is just part of what comes along when you love people.
[02:32:31] And sometimes the grief is, you know, part of that love, you know, that you cared for him.
[02:32:39] And Chris and I had just been at shot show, we were trying to rebrand him. He wasn't taking any money from the book.
[02:32:45] He'd started his tactical company craft. He was paying his staff, but he still wouldn't make much from them.
[02:32:51] So we were trying to rebrand him, you know, so he could have some regular money coming in for him.
[02:32:57] And it was an amazing time. So many great memories, you know, from those four days that we were there together.
[02:33:06] And then just two weeks later, he's gone. You know, and it's just like, and again, he survived. How many deployments did he do?
[02:33:17] And he'd come home and some nut job. I mean, people have tried to, in the media, portray that as the guy that shot him had PTS
[02:33:27] and this was because of war. No, the guy was messed up before. He tried killing a family member as a teenager.
[02:33:33] And his family to protect him didn't, you know, report that to the police.
[02:33:40] And Chris, you know, Chris had a huge heart. That was where, you know, his kids went to school. The mother of the guy that killed him was, you know,
[02:33:48] one of the aides in one of his kids' class. And she just said, hey, he's really struggling since he came back, you know, from his deployment.
[02:33:55] Do you think you could help him? Man, I hold her culpable for not sharing the extent of that because Chris would have done something else.
[02:34:03] He still would have helped him, but he'd had done something else that day. And the guy wasn't, you know, far enough gone.
[02:34:10] He knew what he was doing, you know. He waited till they'd fired all their ammunition. Chris had holstered his weapon.
[02:34:17] He shot Chris first and then his buddy Chad. And then he went and got a taco before he went to his sister's house.
[02:34:25] I'm like, oh my gosh. So yeah. And, you know, I know we've talked about this before, Jaco, but I'm like, Chris's mom's name was Debbie.
[02:34:36] My name's Debbie. Seth is mom's Debbie. So I'm like, if you're in Charlie Petunia, your mom's name's Debbie, please go tell her to change her name.
[02:34:45] You know, but it's just, so much is given, you know, and yet so much was required.
[02:34:58] So you obviously, you know, you and I unfortunately have been through all these things and you've been with them with with all of us and your your reaction to these things is is America's mighty orders.
[02:35:21] That's what you do because you know that the pain and the loss isn't limited to us. It's there's all kinds of people that, you know, anybody that served has gone through these kind of things with a little bit more detail on America's mighty warriors.
[02:35:39] Because I know what you do. I have friends that have been pulled out of the depths of hell from what you do. Can you just give us some of the high level like you got veteran advocacy.
[02:35:56] So what does what does that mean?
[02:35:58] So and probably that was stronger when you guys were still in combat.
[02:36:01] Any issues that there were for our veterans, we're going to stand up and change this. We're going to make it right.
[02:36:06] But like you've gone to DC, you've testified you have relationships with people. You can call people.
[02:36:11] Yep. Got great connections there. I don't know if you remember back in, you might have been deployed then but Delta Airlines, I think it was 2008.
[02:36:20] They were charging our troops coming back from the combat zone excess baggage fees.
[02:36:25] And I'm like, oh, come on. No, that that can't really be true. And I've never been one just to react. I'm going to verify just because it's on the internet. Don't believe it.
[02:36:36] And so I called Delta Airlines and I just said, you know, I understand that you guys are charging our service members who are coming back excess baggage fees.
[02:36:44] Yes, that's our policy. That's correct.
[02:36:46] I said, well, you do understand they're bringing back their weapons that they've used to defend you and your freedom.
[02:36:55] You know, it's not like they went R&R and they're bringing Turkish rugs back home.
[02:36:59] And she said, yes, ma'am, we understand that. I said, well, you really need to refund that money to them. Well, that's not our policy. We're not going to do that.
[02:37:06] I said, well, I've got a pretty big, you know, following an outreach. If you don't refund that to them, then I'm going to let people know the details. I'm going to give them your phone numbers, your emails.
[02:37:18] Just okay, fine.
[02:37:20] Within 48 hours, they had reversed their decision and we're refunding the money because people were canceling their, you know, frequent flyers with Delta. They canceled their flights.
[02:37:29] And obviously it wasn't just me, you know, it was the sphere of influence, you know, that God's placed around me to help do that.
[02:37:40] But the one voice, one person can make a difference.
[02:37:44] The other one was, and I can't ever remember who was the joint chief's staff when the ISIS flag went back up over Ramadi and man, he got on there and said,
[02:37:57] there's no significance to that. And I'm like, I felt like somebody literally had sucker punched me. I'm like, are you kidding me right now?
[02:38:06] My son's blood is on that soil. Don't tell me that's not significance that the enemy flags flying up there again.
[02:38:13] And as we know, you know, as Ramadi goes, so goes the rest of Iraq.
[02:38:18] And so again, I'm like, okay, called the Pentagon. I wanted his address. And they gave me the main address for the Pentagon. I'm like, I wasn't born yesterday.
[02:38:27] He has an address where his mail goes. I'm not going to send this where you get millions of pieces of mail a day. Could I please have his address to send that to him?
[02:38:35] And they said, no, here's the address. I'm like, okay, so I mailed it off. But then I sent out to my media contacts.
[02:38:42] And I got a call Saturday morning from his PAO and he said, ma'am, we understand that you've demanded an apology from the joint chiefs of staff.
[02:38:54] I said, yes. And I said, not just for me. It's every other man and woman who's served there. It's every other, you know, veteran who left a body part behind there.
[02:39:03] It's every other family who's lost a loved one there. You should know better than anybody else how powerful your words are and what that meant.
[02:39:11] He said, well, I want you to know, you know, he carries in his pocket jacket, the names of the fallen that he wrote, he sent out.
[02:39:16] I'm like, great, then he's going to have no problem apologizing. And he goes, well, ma'am, that's not going to happen.
[02:39:22] And again, for three days, I did, you know, national media and even CNN.
[02:39:29] And they had done a great, great interview, like eight minute interview, which is pretty long when you're doing national media.
[02:39:36] And I just got off Lou Dobb's show on, on Fox and was in the car coming back home.
[02:39:43] And I had looked at, I think it was Facebook, I had a message because they called the office, but I wasn't there and they were trying to reach me right away.
[02:39:52] And they, you know, said, please call whatever the PAO's name was.
[02:39:56] And he said, we just like you to know that you will be receiving an apology letter and he wants to personally speak with you.
[02:40:04] And I got home and my son Christopher and one of his buddies were there already and I was like, oh my gosh.
[02:40:11] And my daughter in law being from Japan, you know, she's like, okay, so he apologized. What's the big deal?
[02:40:16] And my son's like, well, he's in charge of the army, the Navy, the Marine Corps, you know, the Air Force.
[02:40:22] And again, I don't ever want to be Cindy Sheehan was, you know, out there and protesting against the troops, you know, before Mark died.
[02:40:34] She ended up losing her son who believed in the mission, who believed in what he was doing just like Mark did.
[02:40:40] And how can you take an opposite stand to me? That's disrespectful to your loved one who gave their life.
[02:40:45] You can have a different opinion, but that's not how you honor them.
[02:40:49] And I never want to be, you know, like she was, I always wanted to make sure I honored and respected Mark and everything that I did.
[02:40:57] And that I don't ever do anything to dishonor him or his name or his sacrifice, you know, and she was pretty wackadoodle in some of her tactics.
[02:41:06] That was the Medea Benjamin and what was the code pink?
[02:41:11] Well, I confronted them numerous times in DC, but, you know, just passionate about making sure that you guys get what you're entitled to, you know, rules of engagement back then were pretty bad.
[02:41:22] So we worked on that. Our random acts of kindness that Mark talks about, we started with the coffee, meals, tank and gas and do those often.
[02:41:29] You know, thank you, Mark, for leaving that because on those tough days, that's what I go do.
[02:41:34] And it really changes things, you know, when I go to an Air Force base or go in a village in and see the, you know, Vietnam veteran hats or whatever, and you go up and you do that for him.
[02:41:44] And it, you know, it really makes a difference in the last time.
[02:41:47] They're like, no, I'm good, ma'am. I'm like, no, no, no, no, you don't understand.
[02:41:50] My son's last letter home challenge. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am.
[02:41:53] But and we expanded that program. It goes up to a $5,000 grant.
[02:41:58] So just this last week, we had two different SEAL families.
[02:42:02] We do all branches of the military. Obviously, the SEAL communities, my family, so, you know, we do a lot for them, but had circumstances that we were able to help with a $5,000 check for each family.
[02:42:14] You know, that the veteran can't come out because there are veterans, unfortunately, are just going from charity to charity to see what they can take, you know, and that's not who we want to help.
[02:42:25] So, you know, you could reach out and say, you know, here's the circumstance, you know, their child has cancer and, you know, they need somebody to take care of their other kids.
[02:42:34] Why they're in the hospital all the time or, you know, unfortunately, do a lot of funeral expenses.
[02:42:41] But those are huge. That lets somebody know they're not alone in the midst of that.
[02:42:46] We do our Gold Star family program. I was going to say, yeah, the Gold Star retreats that you do.
[02:42:51] We do those in Texas. We've been doing those for 12 years.
[02:42:55] And again, my philosophy on grieving is it needs to be natural. Don't force me.
[02:43:00] If I'm having a good day, please don't put me in a circle with 20 other Gold Star moms, and we're all telling our loved ones story.
[02:43:06] We're all going to be blubbering idiots, you know, when we get done.
[02:43:10] If we're sitting at a table and we're sharing a meal and you want to say, hey, what do you do on his anniversary?
[02:43:16] You know, how do you handle the birthday? Does this feeling normal for you? You know, it's natural.
[02:43:22] You've got a choice whether you participate or not. You know, again, there's swimming pools, there's kayaking, there's ziplining, paddle boarding.
[02:43:29] One time I accidentally said, we're waterboarding and they're like, oh, no, sorry, but bring the terrace here.
[02:43:34] I know problem waterboarding them. But we have a house in Arizona called the Heroes Hope Home and one in Florida called the Strenity Hope Home
[02:43:42] where they can come stay free for a week. We take care of their flights, their rental car, everything and just love and pamper on them.
[02:43:48] Let them know. We won't forget your hero and we won't forget you.
[02:43:52] Our biggest program right now is our Helping Heroes Heal program.
[02:43:55] Right.
[02:43:56] And that's for our veterans, combat veterans who are diagnosed with traumatic brain injury, post-traumatic stress, many of them suicidal.
[02:44:03] Now we're paying for hyperbaric oxygen therapy, hormone and supplement therapy, natural things that are actually healing them.
[02:44:11] There's so many things out there that are just masking the symptoms.
[02:44:15] And I get it. I really do understand why they want to try anything and everything to get rid of the pain, whether it's physical, mental, spiritual, all the above.
[02:44:24] I get that. But let's try things that are proven to heal you.
[02:44:30] We've been doing spec scans of the brain before and after.
[02:44:33] And to see those is just phenomenal.
[02:44:37] Some of them, I see them the first time before they go through the treatment. I'm like, how are you even functioning?
[02:44:42] I mean, literally, it looks like an RPG went through their head.
[02:44:45] There's just part of it that there's not getting any oxygen to it.
[02:44:50] And then to see that contrasting scan afterwards and to hear their stories.
[02:44:56] And I remember, it's probably been about four years ago now, but we had another Navy SEAL who had gone through the program and I called to just check and see what symptoms are different.
[02:45:05] You know, what'd you notice? Because everybody heals differently. Everybody has a different extent of their injuries.
[02:45:10] And he went through the things that were better and I'm like, that's awesome. He goes, you saved my life.
[02:45:14] And I said, well, you were willing to give your life for me. This literally is a no brainer that I would do this for you.
[02:45:21] And he paused and he said, stop.
[02:45:23] I'm like, raw, raw, made a Navy SEAL man. This is not going to end well.
[02:45:28] He goes, I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for you and your foundation and the therapies you provided.
[02:45:35] You saved my life.
[02:45:38] And when he said it that strong, I thought of Mark, his final actions, standing up in the line of fire to save his teammates.
[02:45:47] And I was like, oh my gosh, he's still saving his teammates. He's not physically here, but he's still saving his teammates.
[02:45:54] And so to see that impact, you know, to continue to be, even if that were only one time, mission accomplished, woohoo,
[02:46:04] but to see that continue to happen over and over and over and, you know, I know yesterday as we're at the funeral,
[02:46:12] there's, you know, so many more of our guys that this has caused things to surface in them.
[02:46:18] And I probably had at least 10 yesterday that were like, we need to help Mama Lee.
[02:46:25] I'm like, here, here's my card, send me your email, we'll get you an application, we'll get things going.
[02:46:31] And on average, the cost is $20,000 for them to go through a year-long program.
[02:46:36] Last year we had 175 guys in our program.
[02:46:38] And Gals, we do boat branches.
[02:46:40] I see guys kind of generically, but including our women, because we have some amazing female veterans that need help as well.
[02:46:47] But to have that opportunity to see that impact, woof, you know, that God allowed me to be able to do that
[02:47:00] and to be able to continue to meet so many of our amazing warriors who give so much and their families.
[02:47:07] You know, it really is a blessing, but, you know, it's not cheap to provide those therapies.
[02:47:13] And I just really want to encourage any of you, guys and Gals that are listening who served,
[02:47:19] if you are diagnosed with TBI or PTS, if you're struggling with suicide, please, please reach out.
[02:47:26] I know that you get to that place where you feel like there's no hope.
[02:47:30] You've tried different therapies that maybe haven't worked, and you feel like this is how I'm going to have to live the rest of my life.
[02:47:37] And it doesn't have to be that way. There are actually physical things that are happening to the frontal lobe of your brain,
[02:47:43] to other parts of your brain from the blast wave exposure.
[02:47:46] That affects your memory. That affects your sleep.
[02:47:49] There's parts of your brain, irrational decision making, and there's things that we can do to heal that.
[02:47:55] So please, that is not a sign of weakness to ask for help.
[02:48:00] That takes courage. That takes strength.
[02:48:02] You're being a leader to be able to do that. So please reach out to us.
[02:48:08] My husband committed suicide 28 years ago.
[02:48:11] So that's another thing that we've lived through that gives us the ability.
[02:48:15] You're not going to say anything that's going to freak me out or scare me or cause me to act irrationally.
[02:48:20] I'm going to be there to give you hope, to listen to you, to encourage you,
[02:48:26] and let you know in that healing process where you're at.
[02:48:29] And we've suffered too many losses and it's got to stop.
[02:48:34] It's got to start a different attitude, you know, at the head shed in our different branches of the military.
[02:48:44] You know, I tell them, if you watched your leg in combat, you wouldn't be like,
[02:48:48] I'm good. I got this. I'm fine.
[02:48:50] No, you'd be like, get a tourniquet quick.
[02:48:53] And that's what we need to be doing and it's not just emotional.
[02:48:57] There are physical things that are going on.
[02:49:00] And when you guys notice those differences, you need to say quick, get a tourniquet. I need help.
[02:49:06] Yeah, I've had a bunch of friends that have gone through your protocol.
[02:49:10] And like you said, so it's the hyperbaric chamber.
[02:49:14] What is it once a day, twice a day?
[02:49:16] Once a day is the preferred. So 40 consecutive treatments.
[02:49:20] The therapy does build on the oxygen from the first treatment.
[02:49:23] The second treatment built on that has a greater impact, greater impact.
[02:49:27] So it does need to be 40 consecutive.
[02:49:29] Sometimes we can't get time, you know, if guys are still contracting and they're still going overseas and stuff, they can't do that.
[02:49:37] Then it's like two days, two times a day, but four hours apart or something like that.
[02:49:41] There has to be four hours in between so they don't risk oxygen toxicity, but it's so safe.
[02:49:46] There's not any, you know, it's like you read the prescription bottles for a lot of the medications that our veterans are taking.
[02:49:53] And, you know, two thirds of them say may cause suicidal tendency.
[02:49:58] I'm not a doctor. I've never played one on TV, but that makes no sense to me.
[02:50:03] Why? Even if it were a small chance, if they're already depressed and discouraged, why would we give them something that that could be a side effect?
[02:50:10] And the impact, we had one of our veterans who was on 53 prescription drugs at the same time.
[02:50:17] Your kidney and your liver is not designed to process that.
[02:50:20] How can that be even frequently?
[02:50:22] That should be malpractice. Yeah, that just makes no sense to me either.
[02:50:26] And half the time, one prescription they're giving you is to relieve the symptom from the other prescription.
[02:50:32] You know, it's like, oh my goodness.
[02:50:35] So it's the hyperbaric chambers, the hormones, it's the vitamin therapy.
[02:50:40] It's working out, eating good, not, you know, stop freaking drinking.
[02:50:46] Yes, there are things that you need to do to be responsible for this.
[02:50:50] And I get it. We're such a world that we put something in the microwave for a minute.
[02:50:55] We get frustrated because it's not done cooking.
[02:50:58] You know, we want to stop one step, take this pill, do this treatment, and I'm healed.
[02:51:04] I'm good to go.
[02:51:06] And they don't want to assume responsibility.
[02:51:08] You know, the things that you're doing, we've also done spec scans on people that are drinking
[02:51:14] and compared that to a TBI.
[02:51:16] And the alcohol is just as bad as the last wave of exposure that's damaged your brain.
[02:51:22] Same thing with the marijuana, the illegal drugs.
[02:51:25] Stop already. Do you really want to get well?
[02:51:28] Like I said, I get why you want to mask the symptoms, but you're only making it worse.
[02:51:33] And so you need to do those things. You need to be working out regularly.
[02:51:36] There's a feel-good endorphin.
[02:51:38] I wrote something about a year and a half ago that was probably going to be published,
[02:51:41] and I'm like, okay, I can't just put in there. It's a feel-good endorphin.
[02:51:44] So I researched it to see what that endorphin was called.
[02:51:48] Well, it's just called an endorphin, but it said it can have the same impact as morphine.
[02:51:52] I'm like, holy cow, how do we feel so good when we do an intense workout?
[02:51:58] For your brain health, the most effective way to eat is the high protein low-garb.
[02:52:05] And so make those choices. Do those things that are not damaging yourselves,
[02:52:10] not destroying more than you already have.
[02:52:13] And so many of you guys and gals have been fighters. You know.
[02:52:19] It's a different battle now, and you still have to know the enemy.
[02:52:23] You have to know the tactics. You have to put on your full armor every day.
[02:52:27] You know, I can guarantee you, Jocko, you never went out in combat.
[02:52:30] We're like, yeah, I don't think I need my weapon today. I'll be good.
[02:52:33] No, that's crazy. You didn't say, I'm not taking grenades with me today,
[02:52:38] or I'm not taking my water. That's, you know, extra weight. I'll be good.
[02:52:41] No, you put your full kit on, and you were prepared for plan A, B, C, D,
[02:52:48] however far you needed to go. You probably even put an extra grenade in there
[02:52:52] just to be ready, but you knew the enemy. You knew the tactics.
[02:52:56] And, you know, there's a component of spiritual battle that's going on here, too.
[02:53:01] And so you have to know that enemy. You need to put on your gear every day
[02:53:05] and be prepared. And then the self-talk that we tell ourselves,
[02:53:11] you know, I think back to after I went through that divorce,
[02:53:14] and even though I divorced him, he's like, you're fat, you're ugly,
[02:53:17] nobody's ever going to love you.
[02:53:19] And so that tape that played over and over in my brain was, you're unlovable.
[02:53:23] You're unlovable. Who's going to want a woman with three children?
[02:53:27] And like I said, about when I was 28, you know,
[02:53:32] surrendered everything to Christ. I started, I read a scripture and it says,
[02:53:36] you're fearfully and wonderfully made. I'm like, wait, wait, wait.
[02:53:40] That's what Christ says about me. Okay, this other crap's a lie then.
[02:53:43] And so every time he would try to do that, I'm like, no, that's not the truth.
[02:53:48] And now that tape rarely plays because he knows that's not effective on me.
[02:53:53] But we have to reprogram that self-talk that we tell ourselves, you know,
[02:53:59] and find something to replace it. You can't just say, I'm going to stop saying that
[02:54:02] because you've got to have something else to replace that with.
[02:54:05] And so you find out what that truth is, whatever you're struggling with,
[02:54:08] I can guarantee you there's a scripture in the Bible that deals with that,
[02:54:13] that that one you've got that memorized, but you've got to do that warfare.
[02:54:18] It's a different kind of battle, but it is still a battle.
[02:54:22] And you're helping people with that battle? Yes.
[02:54:25] I know I read like a stat on your organization,
[02:54:28] 96.28% of the funds that you receive go to treatment.
[02:54:33] That's freaking awesome.
[02:54:35] I am what my board says politely, very frugal.
[02:54:40] But I did not take a salary for the first 10 years.
[02:54:43] I was so committed to making sure you guys got the healing.
[02:54:48] And not that because I take a salary now, I'm not committed,
[02:54:51] but I wanted to prove ourselves as one of those charities that don't waste your money.
[02:54:58] When you're given your money test, you can count on it's not being wasted.
[02:55:03] We're not having a big party somewhere, you know,
[02:55:06] making our CEO come in on a flying something or other.
[02:55:10] I don't know. There's some bizarre stuff out there.
[02:55:13] And I think a lot of these people when they started probably had pure hearts,
[02:55:17] but then the money entices them.
[02:55:19] I'm not a person that's driven by money.
[02:55:21] Yeah, we all need money to survive in the world, but that's not why I wake up every day.
[02:55:26] My mission is to wake up every day and get help to our veterans and our Gold Star families.
[02:55:32] Yeah, it's been an amazing run, so I'm very frugal how that money is spent.
[02:55:39] And we're fortunate we've got a ton of people that do volunteer.
[02:55:44] If you've got a skill or talent that you can give, if you're a CPA,
[02:55:48] we could use someone to donate an audit.
[02:55:51] We've got a lawyer on our board, so that's taken care of.
[02:55:53] We don't pay legal fees.
[02:55:54] If you're a graphic design artist or social media, reach out.
[02:55:58] We need volunteers to help that are willing to do those things for us as well
[02:56:03] so we can continue to make our dollar go so much further.
[02:56:06] Yeah, and that, again, just going back to the program, which I've had friends go through.
[02:56:10] I haven't gone through it, but I've had friends go through it to help them so much.
[02:56:14] It's like, think of the reset that you get by, I don't know if I should use this term,
[02:56:21] a freaking 40-day vacation where you get to get this awesome treatment,
[02:56:28] you get good food, you got stress removed from your life,
[02:56:31] and it's like a reset on people's minds.
[02:56:34] Then it's the aspect of the oxygen, pressurized oxygen therapy that you're getting
[02:56:40] to get that oxygen into places in your brain that hasn't had it for a while.
[02:56:44] It's like a legitimate reset for people, and it's so helpful to them.
[02:56:50] It is expensive because you're sending people, you have to pay for their food,
[02:56:53] for where they're going to live, they stay in a hotel or whatever for this extended period of time, for 40 days.
[02:56:59] But that's what you need to do.
[02:57:01] If you've bounced off the track, you can't just get back on the track in a day or two days.
[02:57:07] You need to take a serious reset time and get it back together, and that's what you're doing.
[02:57:13] Yeah, it's a commitment.
[02:57:15] We work with facilities all over the United States,
[02:57:18] sometimes there's a clinic near you and you don't have to go away for the 40 days,
[02:57:22] but you do have to then arrange your schedule.
[02:57:25] If you're going at 7 o'clock in the morning and it's a half an hour to drive to get there,
[02:57:29] it's going to be a couple hours out of your day, but it is so worth that commitment for the life change that happens.
[02:57:37] The battle.
[02:57:39] You are like the Pentagon of the battle running things.
[02:57:47] That's how you do it.
[02:57:49] That's what you do.
[02:57:51] You do it for others, just like Mark.
[02:57:53] Just like Mark.
[02:57:55] What else?
[02:57:57] Are we up to date?
[02:57:59] We caught up.
[02:58:01] Is that what we're doing?
[02:58:03] Is that where we're at right now?
[02:58:05] Maybe.
[02:58:07] Maybe.
[02:58:09] Try to think if there's anything else.
[02:58:11] Again, just a reminder that if you need help, we are here.
[02:58:14] There's no excuse.
[02:58:16] We're here to help people who we're taking care of.
[02:58:18] Your information doesn't go anywhere.
[02:58:20] We don't report it to your commands.
[02:58:22] We're here to help.
[02:58:24] Obviously, we've already had a huge outpouring.
[02:58:27] So if you're someone that can help support a veteran,
[02:58:30] if you're a corporation and you can do a nice charity or donation to our charity,
[02:58:37] if you can organize a fundraiser, we need the money to come in to be able to continue to take care of these guys.
[02:58:45] I'm not going to be happy camper if we ever got to a place where someone who was struggling to reach out calls finally.
[02:58:52] I have to say, I'm sorry we don't have any money to be able to do that for you.
[02:58:56] That ain't going to happen.
[02:58:58] I'm going to be selling my own stuff.
[02:59:00] Come on, these are our men and women who have sacrificed greatly for us.
[02:59:09] I feel like we do a terrible job as a nation getting your health restored to you.
[02:59:15] Especially in our community, you get the best training, you get the best equipment, you get the best missions.
[02:59:23] Then you come home and you get out and I feel like it's that leaving a man behind.
[02:59:29] Like, bye, see ya, thanks.
[02:59:31] We're getting better, we're improving on some things, but not at all where it should be.
[02:59:35] I know there are some good VAs, but they should be disgraceful for the lack of the care and the time that our veterans have to wait.
[02:59:46] Again, I'm not going to sit around and wait and say, well, they should do.
[02:59:50] No, let's go.
[02:59:52] Mark's final words as he got ready to go upstairs that day were on me.
[03:00:02] What you guys know what he was saying, he's like, I got the lead on this.
[03:00:05] You guys follow me.
[03:00:06] I can't do it alone.
[03:00:07] Let's go together as a team.
[03:00:10] And that's what it is.
[03:00:12] And that's my challenge.
[03:00:13] I'm saying, on me, come on people, let's go.
[03:00:16] Whether you need help and you need to reach out and ask for help, whether you can help support us, whether you can donate monthly, whether you can donate a service, it's a team.
[03:00:25] This doesn't just happen because Debbie does it every day.
[03:00:29] And I'm blessed, Choco, by you guys who faithfully do the match when we do the muster.
[03:00:35] And on average, we'll raise $30,000, $40,000 at a muster.
[03:00:39] And the different clients that you've worked with, they've spread the word.
[03:00:43] So thank you for the impact that you guys have made and continue to make.
[03:00:48] But most of all, thank you for being Mark's brothers and that I'm blessed to be Mama Lee and have you guys as part of the family.
[03:00:59] And so, so, so grateful.
[03:01:03] Well, like you said, I mean, Mark is just still taking care of his teammates, still giving.
[03:01:10] You know, it's like you think Mark has given everything, he's not, he's still finding more to give, still saving guys, still helping his teammates.
[03:01:20] And that's where that's what it's all about.
[03:01:25] And again, it's a choice, no matter what you're facing, whether, you know, I had no choice the news that was given to me on August 2nd.
[03:01:34] I could have stuffed my fingers in my ear, I could have refused to go home, talked to the Kaco officer.
[03:01:40] But I wanted to change the fact that Mark was gone.
[03:01:43] And oftentimes in life, we're faced with financial health relationship issues, or maybe we don't have a choice.
[03:01:52] Maybe some of them are self-inflicted like some of mine were.
[03:01:57] But we do have a choice how we respond.
[03:02:00] And to curl up in a ball and feel sorry for yourself or blame it on somebody else, isn't going to change it.
[03:02:07] You got to get up, you got to make a choice, and you got to move forward.
[03:02:12] And I think a big part of some of the struggles that I've seen are men and women is the shame issue.
[03:02:21] You know, let go of that shame, let go of that guilt.
[03:02:24] If there is something you're involved in, ask for forgiveness.
[03:02:29] And then let it go. Don't keep picking it up and carrying it on.
[03:02:42] Probably a good place to stop for the day.
[03:02:45] Echo, do you got any questions?
[03:02:48] I have nothing today. Good to see you.
[03:02:50] Yeah, very good to see you as always.
[03:02:52] You need to speak a little bit less though.
[03:02:55] That's what they say sometimes.
[03:02:59] AmericasMightyWarriors.org.
[03:03:03] That's where you can be found.
[03:03:06] Instagram, Americas Mighty.
[03:03:08] Twitter, Americas Mighty.
[03:03:11] Facebook, Americas Mighty Warriors.
[03:03:14] You got a YouTube channel, Americas Mighty Warriors.
[03:03:18] So...
[03:03:19] Yeah, I think one of those movies, or one of those movies that I don't know.
[03:03:23] One of the YouTube's is You, Jaco, when we did the On Me 20.
[03:03:26] Oh, yeah, that's right.
[03:03:27] We did it in the beginning of COVID.
[03:03:29] Yep, and we did 20 podcasts, 20 Days in a Row.
[03:03:32] Whew, won't do that again, but...
[03:03:34] It's a lot different when you're on it versus when you're organizing it
[03:03:38] and planning it and promoting it, but there's some great wisdom.
[03:03:42] We had so many great guys come on there.
[03:03:44] So, yes, we have a YouTube channel.
[03:03:47] Anything else, Momily, for us?
[03:03:51] Let's go get some.
[03:03:53] We're definitely going to go get some.
[03:03:56] Thanks so much for joining us today.
[03:03:58] I know I didn't have you on here for a long time,
[03:04:04] and I was super not ready to have you on here.
[03:04:10] And, you know, the way things happened, George Montsour,
[03:04:15] you know, they had that book come out, and, you know, we were talking,
[03:04:20] and I was like, you know, come on the podcast, and as soon as I got done,
[03:04:24] we were recording with him.
[03:04:25] I sent you a text, and I said,
[03:04:26] I just had George Montsour on the podcast.
[03:04:28] He's like, I can do this.
[03:04:29] And that means, and I got forced into that one, you know,
[03:04:32] I got forced into that one, and I said, you know, let's go.
[03:04:36] And, you know, I think you've told me many times that you've seen me cry.
[03:04:42] I think you've seen me cry more than anybody, so just you got that going for you.
[03:04:46] That marks great.
[03:04:47] And I'm like, oh, that's probably not the image Jaco wants out there,
[03:04:50] but again, people, this is who Jaco is.
[03:04:52] You know, we see your picture, you know, the tough, you know,
[03:04:57] knuckle-dragger kind of, you know, and that's not who, you know,
[03:05:01] and you're always the square, you know, face when you're doing,
[03:05:04] or whatever the thing is.
[03:05:06] I do have a square face.
[03:05:08] But I tell you what, he does have a sense of humor, people.
[03:05:11] He does have emotions, and very much carries that, marks lost.
[03:05:16] Yeah.
[03:05:18] Well, yeah, and that's like, you know, that's again,
[03:05:24] that's why it was really hard for me to say, you know,
[03:05:28] what I got to do this, and it was George Montsour and Mikey,
[03:05:32] you know, pushing me over the edge, because I know it's super emotional,
[03:05:37] obviously, and if it's emotional for me,
[03:05:41] I can't even imagine how emotional it is for you guys.
[03:05:45] But I'm so glad that you're able to come out here today,
[03:05:49] and you know, that you've been with us through so much, you know,
[03:05:53] you've been with us through so many really, really horrible things,
[03:05:59] and you've always been there for us since day one.
[03:06:03] So thank you for all that.
[03:06:06] Thanks for bringing Mark into this world.
[03:06:08] My blessing.
[03:06:10] You raised a warrior, and you raised a warrior who willingly sacrificed
[03:06:16] his life for his friends, and we won't ever forget him.
[03:06:21] And thank you for all of that.
[03:06:24] Thank you for what you're continuing to do now.
[03:06:28] Supporting all our veterans, supporting all our veteran families.
[03:06:33] Your strength is absolutely incredible.
[03:06:37] It's absolutely incredible, and the work that you're doing
[03:06:43] is impacting the lives of countless people,
[03:06:48] people that I personally know, and all of that stems from,
[03:06:55] well, from the Mark that you made.
[03:06:58] Yeah, he made his Mark.
[03:07:00] I was like, I'm not making my Mark, but yes.
[03:07:03] But again, everybody else can make their Mark, you're halfway through the deployment.
[03:07:07] Get your butts up and make a difference.
[03:07:09] That's what it is.
[03:07:10] Thank you, Momaly.
[03:07:12] Thank you.
[03:07:13] Love you.
[03:07:15] And with that, Momaly has left the building.
[03:07:26] Lots going on in that podcast, and you know,
[03:07:29] Momaly and I talked for a long time before it, a long time after it.
[03:07:33] So, just very heavy and very lucky that we had Mark in our lives
[03:07:50] and very lucky and very blessed to have Momaly in our lives.
[03:07:53] So, you know, as she said, we need to live a good life,
[03:08:00] live a life to honor them, which means we need to go get after it.
[03:08:04] It's interesting because I know, Mom, I'm trying to think when the first time I met her was,
[03:08:09] probably at a muster, but I feel like I've known her for so long.
[03:08:12] I see her mostly at the muster events or whatever,
[03:08:15] and it's so interesting how you immediately understand why everyone calls her Momaly.
[03:08:22] She's kind of like, you know, the kind where she's just so happy to see everyone, you know?
[03:08:27] And at first I was like, oh, you know, I must have made an impression on her.
[03:08:30] She's so nice to me, you know, kind of a thing, but it's like, oh yeah, she's just like that.
[03:08:34] She's nice to everybody.
[03:08:35] She's a momaly.
[03:08:37] Yeah, so it's, this all makes sense the way she, like, supports all this stuff,
[03:08:44] all the veterans so passionately, you know?
[03:08:47] Just all, and actually kind of, she made a good point, man, with the charities or whatever,
[03:08:53] where it's like, oh yeah, she kind of mentioned it quick when she's like,
[03:08:56] oh, I'm sure their heart's in the right place at first,
[03:08:58] but when the money starts coming in, then they'll like have a party that's a little bit more lavish or whatever.
[03:09:04] But her, like, the way, like, what she focuses on is like so far from that.
[03:09:13] Almost like you can't really touch that element of her pursuit, you know?
[03:09:18] For sure.
[03:09:19] And I tried to make it clear, I don't know if I did or not,
[03:09:22] but like I have personal friends that have gone through the treatment program that her charity pays for,
[03:09:28] and it's had an immense positive effect.
[03:09:32] So one thing that's kind of cool is like, remember those charities when you were a kid,
[03:09:37] where they'd be like, oh, if you donate this much money, you're going to get this many meals a day for this kid.
[03:09:42] They would like give you a name, and it would kind of connect.
[03:09:46] It's sort of like that.
[03:09:47] Now, you don't get to know the name of the veteran that you're helping,
[03:09:50] but when you donate, like, you are helping a veteran get their life squared away.
[03:09:55] And I really do think that this is like a great first step.
[03:10:00] Like, if you're going to escalate your treatment, this, to me, is a great place to start,
[03:10:08] because it's natural and there's no negative side effects, and you can get it done.
[03:10:16] It's like 100% positive.
[03:10:18] And I think if you try this, there's a decent chance, like, oh, you're going to feel a lot better,
[03:10:22] and then maybe you can start to work some stuff out.
[03:10:24] Look, and there's more extreme measures that people, treatments that people go to.
[03:10:29] I mean, we've had Marcus, Capone on, like, those are some extreme measures.
[03:10:34] And sometimes I think people get to that point, but I think this type of treatment is a great place to start
[03:10:41] to see if we can get some things under control with kind of like the minimum amount of intervention.
[03:10:51] You know what I'm saying?
[03:10:52] Oh, yeah, fully.
[03:10:53] And then it always...
[03:10:55] Like, real quick, like, before you get surgery on your knee, you do rehab first.
[03:11:01] When you get surgery on your back, you try stretching, you try yoga, you try some injections,
[03:11:07] you try other things, and then eventually they go, okay, look, man, you got a real issue that can't be solved through this stuff.
[03:11:13] So I think this is sort of the first...
[03:11:17] Maybe it's the second step, because at first, look, man, quit drinking, eat healthy, work out, like, see how you feel then.
[03:11:22] Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
[03:11:23] Okay, that doesn't work.
[03:11:24] Okay, now we're going to try a hyperbaric chamber.
[03:11:26] Now we're going to try some of these vitamin therapy, some of these hormones.
[03:11:29] So that's, I think, the next escalation.
[03:11:31] And then, you know, there's other things you can do, and then eventually you get to a point where you're like, okay, like, I got some friends,
[03:11:36] they're at the end of the rope.
[03:11:38] Okay, what do you need to do?
[03:11:39] Hey, you're going to go and talk to the vets, the Marcus's thing, and get some of that.
[03:11:46] What is it called?
[03:11:47] Psycho...
[03:11:48] One of those drugs called psychedelic therapy, right?
[03:11:51] You might get there.
[03:11:52] But, you know, I would look at it, and some people are scared of that, right?
[03:11:56] Oh, yeah.
[03:11:57] I'm scared of that.
[03:11:58] Like, I don't want to do that.
[03:11:59] I don't think I need to do it.
[03:12:01] Turn into a loving joke.
[03:12:02] No, it's not that.
[03:12:03] I just, it seems like a risk, you know, you start putting things in your system, maybe you open something up, you don't want to open up, right?
[03:12:11] So that seems like a risk to me.
[03:12:13] This is low risk, high reward.
[03:12:15] Yeah.
[03:12:16] So again, like, I think, I know people, I mean, Marcus is a great example of that, right?
[03:12:21] Yeah.
[03:12:22] Like, so, you can get there, and then if you get there, it's like, okay, I get it.
[03:12:28] But this stuff, as an initial start, why not give this a try, see if you can get some problems under control, and maybe you turn out all right.
[03:12:38] Yeah.
[03:12:39] And that's what I think what's great about what Mama Lee's doing, I mean, just like I said, it's a 40-day, I hate to call it a vacation, but it's kind of like a 40-day vacation.
[03:12:48] When you get perfect food, you get, you know, to work out, you get this awesome oxygen treatment.
[03:12:53] So the hyperbaric chamber treatment, that's like reintroducing oxygen to places of your brain that are damaged from lack of oxygen?
[03:13:01] Yeah, and like, things get messed up.
[03:13:03] Look, I don't, I'm not a scientist, clearly.
[03:13:06] No, you're not.
[03:13:07] I don't.
[03:13:08] There's a bunch of, what is it called, literature about how these things help out.
[03:13:14] Right.
[03:13:15] Consider that right, where if you have something physically damaged on your brain, and that's causing this very specific behavior or whatever, like going to some other treatment that doesn't address the physical injury won't, doesn't seem like, I don't know, like, like you, I'm not a scientist, but that part still makes sense, you know, where, like, if, if you're in a
[03:13:35] spiraling thought pattern, that's different than if your brain is physically damaged, like, you know, like, you know, you hear football, we know football players where like, they had literally said, hey, I'm going to commit suicide, I'm not going to shoot myself in the head because I want you to study my brain.
[03:13:51] Like, there's something wrong.
[03:13:52] Junior Seya.
[03:13:53] Yeah, yeah.
[03:13:54] Did you know Junior Seya, personally?
[03:13:55] Yeah, from the, no, not good.
[03:13:57] He came into my club all the time that I used to work at.
[03:13:59] But I met him like, same thing, I met him like at a bar one time, super cool, super chill.
[03:14:06] Yeah.
[03:14:07] And, and, and like, that's one of those cases, you look at a guy that killed himself.
[03:14:11] Yeah.
[03:14:12] You know, Junior Seya, the guy is one of the most beloved athletes in San Diego history.
[03:14:18] Probably, yeah, yeah.
[03:14:19] And if you're going to be a beloved athlete in the city, San Diego is a great city to be a beloved athlete.
[03:14:24] Because San Diego is just a cool place, you know, there's a lot of fun things to do and you go out in San Diego.
[03:14:30] It's not overwhelming.
[03:14:31] Like, let's say you're Michael Jordan in Chicago.
[03:14:33] Sure you're beloved, but you're almost getting mobbed, right?
[03:14:36] Yeah.
[03:14:37] There's a level of chill in San Diego that if you're Junior Seya, you're going out in San Diego,
[03:14:43] you're like having a good time.
[03:14:45] Like I've been out like, like you're saying Junior Seya would go to your club, go to your bar.
[03:14:49] Yeah.
[03:14:50] I've been in bars like seal, like bars that are where a bunch of seals would go.
[03:14:56] And like Junior Seya was, he's not getting mobbed, he's just having a beer or whatever.
[03:14:59] Yeah.
[03:15:00] I don't think there's a lot of cities where that's the same, you know?
[03:15:04] So if you're going to be, so you're Junior Seya, you're playing in the NFL, you got basically unlimited money, right?
[03:15:12] You're living a great city.
[03:15:14] You're famous in the city, you're beloved in the city.
[03:15:17] There's also athletes that are in a city, but they don't like them because whatever, they came from a different team or whatever.
[03:15:22] He's like, beloved in San Diego.
[03:15:25] We're down for Junior Seya.
[03:15:26] Yeah.
[03:15:27] And you take a guy like that and he kills himself.
[03:15:30] I mean, just horrible.
[03:15:32] But more telling, saying straight up, hey, there's something wrong.
[03:15:35] Like this is how much I think something wrong.
[03:15:38] So anyway, the point, and the point there is where that's not a spiraling thought pattern that's just, you know, getting in the way of his like,
[03:15:46] family life, his health, causing him to like, hey, maybe drinking will kind of leave, leave these thoughts and keeping them up at night or whatever.
[03:15:53] Those are like, and that in and of itself is, is can jam you a big time, regardless of where it comes from.
[03:15:59] Can jam you a big time, but it is different than if you have straight up damage to your brain.
[03:16:03] So the treatment is going to be different.
[03:16:05] And by the way, we're going to, you know, we're seeing this now in the special operations community, absolutely in the SEAL community,
[03:16:12] that there's something going on that is damaging guys brains.
[03:16:19] And we heard it from Sarah Wilkinson.
[03:16:22] Her husband, Chad, was not the same guy that she married.
[03:16:27] And it's not like, oh, he's been through some stuff and he's, you know, he's got a different attitude about such and such.
[03:16:33] No, he's a different person.
[03:16:35] And we're, we're seeing that.
[03:16:38] And look, sometimes being a different person maybe means that, you know, I have a worse temper or sometimes being a different person means I'm more focused on something else.
[03:16:48] There's a different level of like, hey, he's a different person now.
[03:16:52] But occasionally, and that's what we're seeing in the SEAL teams and it's freaking awful.
[03:16:57] You've got guys that are getting into these mental places that they absolutely no one expects them to be in.
[03:17:08] And you can't, it, this, the, actually the equivalent of Junior SEAL, beloved SEALs, everybody loves them.
[03:17:16] They have a great career.
[03:17:18] They, they're respected by everybody.
[03:17:21] They're in a great position.
[03:17:24] And we're seeing that outcome.
[03:17:28] And so this, like you're talking about when there's some kind of physical issue with the brain.
[03:17:35] And I don't know what it is, obviously, and actually, unfortunately, no one really knows what it is.
[03:17:42] They haven't been able to say, oh yes, this is what happened to Junior SEAL's brain.
[03:17:46] Here's the impact.
[03:17:47] Here's the nerves that got rattled.
[03:17:49] Here's the reconnections that got made.
[03:17:51] Here's the shortfalls that happened.
[03:17:53] No one said that yet.
[03:17:54] No one said that about SEALs that have taken their own lives.
[03:17:58] Oh, okay.
[03:17:59] Here's the thing.
[03:18:00] Here's what they went through.
[03:18:01] Here's what we need to just stop at.
[03:18:02] No one's saying that.
[03:18:03] But one thing that's happening right now is people are saying, hey, we can't do this anymore.
[03:18:10] We need to identify, we identify the symptom that is guys are killing themselves.
[03:18:16] We got to figure out what's causing it and then figure out how to, how to, how to get that under control.
[03:18:21] I mean, it's absolutely horrific to see this happening.
[03:18:25] So I think what Mama Lee is doing, this intervention with, and like I said, I've seen the impact
[03:18:34] that it's had on guys and she's just continuing to get out there and make this happen.
[03:18:40] And as we talked about, this is Mark Lee.
[03:18:44] Like I said, there's a guy that you think he's given everything, but he's still trying to take care of his teammates.
[03:18:52] Bro, I love looking at stuff like that, like how she would say it.
[03:18:56] And obviously, Mama Lee is a very spiritual person.
[03:18:59] But the idea of like, you know, like you have this war, right?
[03:19:02] You have the bad guys against the good guys and the bad guy takes out a good guy.
[03:19:06] Oh, but did he take out that good guy?
[03:19:08] Not really because the very taking out that good guy kind of spread all this other goodness.
[03:19:13] Kind of went beyond the grave kind of stuff.
[03:19:15] Literally, that's true.
[03:19:17] Actually, factually true.
[03:19:18] And I thought about that too when Ryan Mannion was on.
[03:19:21] I was like, because she said it, she was like, hey, she was like, in a way it was a blessing because I would have never done this and this and this.
[03:19:27] If this terrible thing didn't happen, I was like, oh, that's crazy.
[03:19:30] That's kind of true.
[03:19:31] Or it is true.
[03:19:32] Showing up percent.
[03:19:33] But you know, at the same time, it doesn't change the fact that it's like a tragic loss or whatever,
[03:19:37] but it's like it's spawned like that sacrifice like spawned so many other good things that literally wouldn't happen.
[03:19:42] Wouldn't have got spawned.
[03:19:44] It's crazy.
[03:19:45] Mark continues to give.
[03:19:47] Yup.
[03:19:48] And it's, I wish I could do his personality justice.
[03:19:53] Yeah.
[03:19:54] Because it's just one of a kind, you know.
[03:19:58] So that's what we're doing.
[03:20:02] We're trying to live.
[03:20:03] We're trying to live good lives in order to do that.
[03:20:05] You need some.
[03:20:06] Well, you need some good fuel to be honest with you.
[03:20:08] Good fuel.
[03:20:09] Chocolate fuel.
[03:20:10] Yeah, you need supplements, good supplements, supplements with integrity.
[03:20:14] Yup.
[03:20:15] Yeah.
[03:20:16] 100% got some protein called more ready to drink to, by the way.
[03:20:19] Yeah.
[03:20:20] If you didn't know.
[03:20:21] So yeah, you know, I just pounded one.
[03:20:23] Yeah.
[03:20:24] Look, the chocolate one, look, the chocolate one is just straight delicious.
[03:20:29] The vanilla is also delicious.
[03:20:33] You know, gotta give it up for for Keegan.
[03:20:35] Keegan Roberts came up with the perfect description of vanilla is like melted ice cream.
[03:20:39] And bananas, the bananas.
[03:20:43] Yeah.
[03:20:44] So you know what, you know why we, because normally you don't go, normally you don't
[03:20:48] go chocolate, vanilla, banana, right?
[03:20:50] That's not normal.
[03:20:51] What's normal strawberry?
[03:20:52] Maybe strawberry, right?
[03:20:53] Sure.
[03:20:54] Yeah.
[03:20:55] You know why you go banana?
[03:20:56] Because the banana was so freaking good.
[03:20:57] Oh yeah.
[03:20:58] Just start making this banana one.
[03:21:00] Ready to drink, get that stuff.
[03:21:02] Yup.
[03:21:03] Make it happen.
[03:21:04] Yup.
[03:21:05] Don't forget about your joints.
[03:21:06] Big deal.
[03:21:07] Once they go, don't matter how much protein you get, joints don't move.
[03:21:11] Well, it always matters.
[03:21:12] Support your muscles with protein.
[03:21:15] Support your joints with joint warfare.
[03:21:17] Yup.
[03:21:18] It's true.
[03:21:19] Supercrill.
[03:21:20] Supercrill oil in there, vitamin D3 in there, cold war immunity, important as well.
[03:21:24] Especially nowadays, actually not even especially nowadays.
[03:21:26] All the time.
[03:21:27] Community.
[03:21:28] Yeah.
[03:21:29] We're making the best possible products we can.
[03:21:31] Yeah.
[03:21:32] If you go to Wawa, get yourself some drinks.
[03:21:34] If you go to vitamin shop, you can get everything at vitamin shop.
[03:21:36] You can get it.
[03:21:37] Stuff should be at the military commissaries.
[03:21:38] I had somebody reach out the other day and say, wasn't there military commissary?
[03:21:41] Tell the manager, be a Karen.
[03:21:44] Be like, hey, there's no Jocko Fuel here.
[03:21:46] No, I'm just kidding.
[03:21:47] Don't be a Karen, but maybe in a respectful way say, hey, can we get some Jocko Fuel up
[03:21:52] in this piece?
[03:21:53] Yeah.
[03:21:54] Haniford dash stores.
[03:21:56] And look, I got the same message about Haniford, H-E-B, Murphy's, Myers, Meyer.
[03:22:04] Any of these stores, if they don't have Jocko Fuel in stock, let them know.
[03:22:07] Be like, hey, we're looking for that Jocko Fuel.
[03:22:09] Where's it at?
[03:22:10] That way they can help us get the logistics squared away, get more stuff sent to them.
[03:22:15] So there you go.
[03:22:16] Or you go to JockoFuel.com and you can get all this stuff as well.
[03:22:19] Order it, make it happen.
[03:22:20] If you need some jujitsu gear to wear on your body, which you might need rash guards.
[03:22:25] We're not doing the freaking paint creation just going naked.
[03:22:29] No.
[03:22:30] We're not doing that.
[03:22:31] We're not doing that.
[03:22:32] No.
[03:22:33] Sometimes he wants to wear them little sungows, right?
[03:22:35] Yeah, he goes in that direction.
[03:22:37] He leans in that direction.
[03:22:38] He doesn't do it anymore.
[03:22:39] It's freaking horrible when he used to do that.
[03:22:41] If you don't know what a sungow is, it's like a look.
[03:22:44] They're basically like a bikini for a man.
[03:22:47] It is a Brazilian thing, which looks cool, man.
[03:22:50] Nothing against the Brazilian culture.
[03:22:51] That's their culture.
[03:22:52] Yeah, on the beach.
[03:22:53] Yeah, on the beach.
[03:22:54] But when you come into the, on the mats of justice, we don't want it to be the mats
[03:22:59] of just ass, right?
[03:23:00] We want it to be the mats of justice.
[03:23:02] So put some clothes on, right?
[03:23:04] Put some ghee on, put a ghee on, put a rash guard on.
[03:23:08] And we got all that stuff.
[03:23:09] And guess what?
[03:23:10] It's all made in America.
[03:23:11] You know, it's interesting I talking to some people yesterday, they don't even know that
[03:23:17] it's made in America.
[03:23:18] They're like, oh, it's really, it's all made in America.
[03:23:21] Yes, it's 100% made in America.
[03:23:23] That's what one of, that's what makes it awesome.
[03:23:26] Look, if we were making it overseas and it was as high quality as it, that'd be cool.
[03:23:31] Yeah, cool.
[03:23:32] But the next level is made in America.
[03:23:36] So originUSA.com, by the way, we're starting to backfill all that hunt gear.
[03:23:41] So if you needed hunt gear, get on there, order yourself some hunt gear.
[03:23:45] I know.
[03:23:46] Listen, might seem like, oh, hunt season is not for another few months.
[03:23:50] As you know, hunt season sneaks up on you.
[03:23:53] And you're like, dude, I haven't been shooting enough.
[03:23:55] It's gonna sneak up on you.
[03:23:57] Get your hunt gear.
[03:23:58] OriginUSA.com, made in America.
[03:24:00] Yep, it's true.
[03:24:01] Also, Jockle Store, called Jockle Store, is where you can get your Discipline Equals
[03:24:04] Freedom shirts and hats and goodies and stuff.
[03:24:07] Good.
[03:24:08] Represent.
[03:24:09] Represent on the path.
[03:24:10] They were on the path.
[03:24:11] You guys got this, where we have the reset.
[03:24:13] Yep.
[03:24:14] Jockle reset, that's a path.
[03:24:15] It's a path, a program for, it's kind of, is that a competition?
[03:24:19] Would you call it a competition?
[03:24:20] You know what I would say to this?
[03:24:22] It's a reset.
[03:24:23] Yeah.
[03:24:24] That's what it's called.
[03:24:25] That's what it is.
[03:24:26] Discipline Equals Freedom Reset.
[03:24:28] Get yourself back on the path.
[03:24:30] And it's amazing.
[03:24:31] I said this a long time.
[03:24:32] I think I said it to Jordan Peterson a long time ago.
[03:24:34] Sure.
[03:24:35] JP.
[03:24:36] Like, you fix one thing.
[03:24:38] Like you said, if you write down what you're supposed to do tomorrow, tonight, and you
[03:24:42] do it, that's awesome.
[03:24:43] And you had a good day.
[03:24:45] And you made progress in your life.
[03:24:47] Now imagine if you did that for a week.
[03:24:48] Now imagine if you did that for a month.
[03:24:49] Now imagine if you did that for a year.
[03:24:51] Now imagine if you did that for five years.
[03:24:52] Where would you be if you actually did what you were supposed to do?
[03:24:55] That's what the reset's about.
[03:24:57] Okay.
[03:24:58] So it's a in the def reset.com.
[03:25:00] Oh, that's where it's all online.
[03:25:03] Boom.
[03:25:04] Yeah.
[03:25:05] So if you want to represent.
[03:25:06] Speaking of the home.
[03:25:08] Jaco store.com.
[03:25:10] Also, we have a thing called the short lock.
[03:25:12] It's a subscription scenario.
[03:25:14] Get a new shirt every month.
[03:25:15] Different designs.
[03:25:16] People seem to like that one.
[03:25:18] But yeah, check that one out.
[03:25:19] I like the most recent one.
[03:25:20] The no free dopamine.
[03:25:22] No free dopamine.
[03:25:23] No free dopamine.
[03:25:24] That's part of the reset, man.
[03:25:25] Hey, if you're wearing a no free dopamine shirt and you're holding your phone in your
[03:25:30] hand and you're scrolling, you can't do it.
[03:25:32] Yeah.
[03:25:33] You can't do it.
[03:25:34] Hey, you're going to put that away.
[03:25:35] You know it's free dopamine.
[03:25:36] Yeah, exactly right.
[03:25:37] You know it's free dopamine.
[03:25:38] Yeah.
[03:25:39] So get away from that.
[03:25:40] There you go.
[03:25:41] That's the that's the short locker.
[03:25:43] Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast.
[03:25:44] Don't forget we got Jaco on the ground.
[03:25:45] We've been releasing a bunch of those putting out word.
[03:25:47] Little, little additional information.
[03:25:50] Lansery questions.
[03:25:51] If you have questions, by the way, you need to add more questions to the doc.
[03:25:54] Go almost out.
[03:25:55] So you when you guys send email those questions, then we upload them to doc and we answer them.
[03:26:01] So there you go.
[03:26:03] Check that out.
[03:26:04] Draco underground.com.
[03:26:05] Don't forget we got a YouTube channel.
[03:26:07] Don't forget about origin USA YouTube channel.
[03:26:09] Don't forget about psychological warfare.
[03:26:10] Don't forget about flip side canvas.
[03:26:12] Dakota Meyer making cool stuff to hang on your wall.
[03:26:15] Don't forget about books.
[03:26:17] And by the way, if you want to get books, you can get any book that Debbie Lee, Mama Lee
[03:26:23] has either helped write or she's been a part of it anyway.
[03:26:27] She sells them on her website.
[03:26:28] A lot of times they're signed.
[03:26:29] So if you want to get books, you can get it through her website, americasmightywarriors.org
[03:26:34] and you go to store and you can buy some of the books there.
[03:26:37] Look, a bunch of books.
[03:26:38] You guys know my books are only cry for the living.
[03:26:40] Holly McKay unbelievable book.
[03:26:43] That's from jockel publishing.
[03:26:44] Final spin.
[03:26:46] There's news on final spin.
[03:26:48] We're keeping it on the DL.
[03:26:50] But yeah, there's the cool things, very cool things we'll say very cool things are happening
[03:26:54] with final spin.
[03:26:56] So that's that's pretty awesome.
[03:26:58] I look forward to talking more about that and as we go through that process.
[03:27:02] By the way, way of the warrior kid five is out.
[03:27:06] Way of the warrior kid five is out.
[03:27:08] You may not have known that.
[03:27:09] I didn't do a great job of whatever promoting it.
[03:27:13] Yeah, I'm not talking trash, but yeah, I do a bad job.
[03:27:17] It was not promoted in the way that the other ones work because the other ones I was like, I felt the hype.
[03:27:22] I felt the bill.
[03:27:23] I couldn't wait.
[03:27:24] And now you tell me this.
[03:27:25] I'm like, dang, okay.
[03:27:26] This was I'm reading it.
[03:27:28] It's just like, you know, when you when you write something and then it takes a while for it to come out, right?
[03:27:33] And then you read it again.
[03:27:34] You're like, yeah, you kind of feel and I've always said this about way of the warrior kid.
[03:27:39] When I read them, I kind of don't feel like I wrote it because it's written in another.
[03:27:44] It's written from the aspect of, you know, a little kid and so I'm reading it.
[03:27:48] I'm like, oh, that's a cool.
[03:27:49] I'm like, oh, yeah, I wrote that.
[03:27:51] So we're very happy with the way it turned out.
[03:27:53] Check those out.
[03:27:54] Way the warrior kid five is out right now.
[03:27:55] Order it and then order one, two, three, four, whoever you know, whatever kids you know,
[03:28:00] uh, Mikey and the dragons get that for little kids about face by Hackworth extreme ownership, the dichotomy leadership.
[03:28:05] We got Ashland Front.
[03:28:08] Ashlandfront.com, which our leadership consultancy.
[03:28:10] That's what we do every single day.
[03:28:13] This is a pretty cool statement.
[03:28:14] Every single day, there's somebody from Ashlandfront in the world teaching leadership to a company, probably two or three of them, sometimes five or six of them.
[03:28:24] So that's what we do.
[03:28:26] We solve problems through leadership.
[03:28:27] Go to Ashlandfront.com.
[03:28:28] We do live events too.
[03:28:30] We got, by the way, the battlefield sold out.
[03:28:33] The next one we're going to do is little big horn, but Gettysburg is sold out for now, but get on there early.
[03:28:38] These things sell out.
[03:28:39] The, the muster Orlando is the next one, April three, third through the fifth.
[03:28:46] Check that one out and then it's going to be Dallas after that in October 18 through 20th.
[03:28:51] Look, these things all sell out.
[03:28:52] So if you want to come, please get on there.
[03:28:55] Ashlandfront.com, go register.
[03:28:56] We also have the online training Academy Extreme Ownership Academy.
[03:29:00] We're on there all the time.
[03:29:02] We are putting out word.
[03:29:04] We are answering questions.
[03:29:06] You want to ask me a question? Just go on, join the Academy and then ask me your questions.
[03:29:11] Say, Hey, Jock, I had a question.
[03:29:12] Boom.
[03:29:13] I'll answer your question.
[03:29:14] Got a leadership issue.
[03:29:15] Got a life issue.
[03:29:16] Got a jujitsu issue.
[03:29:17] We can get an answer.
[03:29:18] Extreme ownership.com.
[03:29:19] We got a bunch of course.
[03:29:20] We put up free courses right now.
[03:29:22] We got a, we got a course.
[03:29:23] Dave Burke and I did a curve.
[03:29:25] Good deal.
[03:29:26] Yes.
[03:29:27] Good deal.
[03:29:28] Dave, we did a course about extreme ownership and then Jamie Cochran and I did a course about the barriers to extreme ownership.
[03:29:33] So check that one out.
[03:29:36] If you want to help service members active and retired, guess what you can do?
[03:29:41] Mama Lee's got an incredible organization.
[03:29:43] You heard all about what it did today, what it does say.
[03:29:46] Hey, by the way, she, as she was leaving, she also mentioned she's hiring.
[03:29:49] She's looking to hire someone.
[03:29:51] So if you want to help out with the administrative side or you want to volunteer with some of the other areas, let her know.
[03:29:58] America's mighty warriors.org.
[03:30:01] Reach out.
[03:30:02] This is a great organization.
[03:30:04] And also on Instagram, she is at America's mighty Twitter.
[03:30:09] America's mighty Facebook.
[03:30:11] America's mighty warriors.
[03:30:12] YouTube America.
[03:30:13] America's mighty warriors.
[03:30:15] That's how you connect with Mama Lee.
[03:30:17] That's how you can help out.
[03:30:18] That's how you can get involved.
[03:30:19] And then if you want to get, you know, involved with Echo Charles or with me, I am at Jocko.
[03:30:27] Like Echo is at Echo Charles, don't forget that Echo Charles is Twitter.
[03:30:32] He compromised it.
[03:30:35] That's true.
[03:30:36] Right.
[03:30:37] I was like worried when you're, when your Twitter got, I'll use the term loosely hacked.
[03:30:42] Dang, like this is weird.
[03:30:43] Like how, what kind of, what kind of people are out there?
[03:30:46] What kind of nefarious people are out there?
[03:30:48] I pictured, you know, when you see a mission impossible type movie and the guys show up and they plug in little wires and they're running through a
[03:30:56] program to figure out what the password is.
[03:30:59] Yeah.
[03:31:00] And there's nine people on the radio that are called back to a big mainframe computer to break in and get the password.
[03:31:07] Yeah.
[03:31:08] Sure.
[03:31:09] When you first told me that's what I pictured.
[03:31:11] Okay.
[03:31:12] And then you told me what happened.
[03:31:13] Yeah.
[03:31:14] And I realized you were just dumb.
[03:31:15] Yes.
[03:31:16] I realized you were just dumb and you don't did some dumb shit.
[03:31:20] Yes, sir.
[03:31:21] That's true.
[03:31:22] Hey, living learn.
[03:31:23] Echo gave away his password, lost his thing.
[03:31:28] He got fished.
[03:31:29] Yeah.
[03:31:30] But it's back.
[03:31:31] But it's back.
[03:31:32] Totally back.
[03:31:33] We're back.
[03:31:34] So yeah, if you want to reconnect him.
[03:31:35] Reconnect.
[03:31:36] I mean.
[03:31:37] Echo Charles, he now has 19 followers on Twitter.
[03:31:39] Yep.
[03:31:40] How many did you used to have?
[03:31:42] I appreciate every single one of them.
[03:31:44] Did you know what you used to have?
[03:31:45] Um, yeah.
[03:31:46] 50,000?
[03:31:47] Do you have 50,000?
[03:31:48] No, I think it was like 70,000.
[03:31:49] 70,000?
[03:31:50] Look at that.
[03:31:51] Sure.
[03:31:52] Do I wonder where you're at?
[03:31:53] 71?
[03:31:54] I don't know.
[03:31:55] Yeah.
[03:31:56] We should have made up a better story.
[03:31:57] You know.
[03:31:58] Hey, that's real.
[03:31:59] You know, you should have said I left Twitter because of whatever.
[03:32:02] Oh, my political views.
[03:32:03] Yeah, political views.
[03:32:04] It's something like this.
[03:32:05] Yeah.
[03:32:06] There you go.
[03:32:07] So there you go.
[03:32:08] That's where you can get in touch with us.
[03:32:10] And thanks once again to Mama Lee for everything.
[03:32:19] We could never have asked for a better teammate in your son.
[03:32:24] We could never ask for a better supporter and we could have never asked for a better second
[03:32:30] mom for so many of us.
[03:32:33] So thank you, Mama Lee.
[03:32:35] And thanks to all the military personnel out there and especially a thanks to the military
[03:32:41] families.
[03:32:43] All of you.
[03:32:44] You sacrifice so much for our country when you support your military service member.
[03:32:52] So thank you.
[03:32:54] And then a solemn thanks for the Gold Star families.
[03:33:00] We are forever indebted to what you have given to us.
[03:33:07] And also thanks to our police and law enforcement, our firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers,
[03:33:12] correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all the first responders out there
[03:33:17] and your families as well.
[03:33:19] You all keep us safe, but you're able to do your job thanks to the support and sacrifice
[03:33:27] of your families.
[03:33:28] So thanks to our first responders and thanks to your families as well.
[03:33:33] And to everybody else out there.
[03:33:37] Let's think about Mark Lee.
[03:33:40] Let's think about his last letter home.
[03:33:45] And think about that for him to be in combat, to be in danger on a daily basis.
[03:33:54] And what he says in that letter is he asks us to pass on the kindness, the love, the precious
[03:34:01] gift of human life.
[03:34:06] What he wanted us to do was help each other.
[03:34:08] What he wanted us to do was commit more random acts of kindness.
[03:34:15] What he wanted us to do was take less and give more.
[03:34:23] And that's coming from a man who gave everything he had.
[03:34:31] So let's give more.
[03:34:33] Let's do better.
[03:34:34] Let's be better for Mark.
[03:34:39] And until next time, Zeko and Jaco, out.