Jocko Podcast 367: Wake Up And Get Some Some Sleep. Dr. Kirk Parsley

2023-01-08T04:45:01Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles Doc Parsley's Sleep Remedy: http://www.docparsley.com/jocko After serving with the SEALs, Doc entered medical school at the Uniformed Services University of Health Sciences (USUHS) in Bethesda. Doc graduated in 2004, 1 year after the birth of his third child. He interned in Obstetrics and Gynecology at Balboa Naval Hospital San Diego in 2005 and subsequently completed a Navy residency in Hyperbarics and Diving Medicine in 2006. From 2009 to 2013, Doc served as an Undersea Medical Officer at Naval Special Warfare Group One. While there, he led the development of and supervised the group’s first Sports Medicine Rehabilitation center. Doc saw firsthand the effect that low sleep and high stress had on the young SEALs who were under his care, men who he realized looked a whole lot like himself just a few years before. It was during this time that he began to develop the all-natural Sleep Remedy that is now the supplement of choice for Navy SEALs, pro athletes, C-level executives, and thousands of others. Henry, now Sleep Remedy's CFO, was one of the first to experience the life altering impact of Sleep Remedy.

AI summary of episode

if this one collapses and I look up and I'm like there's no way this is gonna and we're like we all dive out like the doors you know it's like this wide the doors open this wide like 20 guys get through that thing in like five seconds you know and the whole thing collapses and so so there was no power for like six weeks there's no water there is no anything and there were bodies laying in the ditches all over the place of course in town they have like generators going and everything's going like two days later they're like up and running nothing ever happened and then we had like the they call them the NPA like the the Vietnam Equivalent or the Philippine equivalent of the Vietnamese Communist so you don't want them to be too high because like you think about you know if you're in a fist fight can you remember your phone number like probably not right because like your prefrontal cortex that ain't working like you're not going to be planning your next trip or something while you're while you're in something stressful so that you know that's one factor now another factor is if you sleep really well and if you don't stress a lot during the day even if you short sleep it's it's not as big of a deal right because the quality of sleep is keeping your stress hormones lower like the lowest your stress hormones ever are when you're in deep sleep and of course they peak somewhere in the afternoon like I've heard 11 to 1 1 to 3 like I it seems to be somewhere on noon to 1 in most of the people I test you know that as you know it as that peak goes up people are feeling more and more alert their body temperature is going up there's all sorts of like good physiological things going on but people feel better under more stress hormones and you can go excessive and it becomes it becomes negative but just the fact that you're not somebody who stresses a lot like one of the one of the biggest things I do and that was like a policy job really because a lot of people don't realize this but like every country that has submarines like they all they all have this agreement that will will rescue each other submarines even our enemies like China Russia doesn't matter like your submarine goes down on our waters and it's saveable we'll use our system to save your guys because technically these systems can go anywhere in the world but with a realistic time when there's probably not in realistic to like fly it over there and set everything up so you're gonna be much better off of the country that you're closest to saves them and so then you have to make all these agreements like well who whose patients are they gonna be whose dive tables are we're gonna use we have to recompress them like what like what's gonna be our product and so that's all we did is travel around the world and meet endless meetings and come up with new policy and then then I had the opportunity to either go back to the hospital or go to the teams I was like I really feel like I should do that and so then I go back to the teams and that's right when they called it and so I have those people set an alarm clock like an hour before bed and this is a generally a good idea but like anything else if you have problems be super like be fastidious and with this and like be exact and be you know very regimented and then once you get healthy sleep back just like once you get fit you don't have to do everything that you had to do to get in good shape like you just generally adhere to those principles so like but when you're having problems like setting an alarm clock an hour before it's time to go to bed I one of the CEOs out there he got like in the couple of years I was treating him you know like three PRs like like weight lifting and running and like say something else and like in his 40s like this is the best he's ever been in his life because he's you know he's been broken down we and like our community has some of that just because of the chaotic sleep and that's kind of like what happened to you because it takes a while for ideas to get accepted he he rolls out this one example of with the major changes that have been made to warships over the past whatever it is 200 years every major change that came like no one accepted it until like somebody got martyred and then you know like going from whatever from sale to like steam right this first guy's like are you an idiot what are you gonna do when you're out at sea and there's no coal you're an idiot like we can sail forever and sure enough these guys get fired and then the next guy says you know we should make the holes out of out of metal and set a wood were you an idiot how are you gonna repair those they're heavier than more all those things and that's what happens so if you're the if you're the first person to roll out if you're not careful now you can be careful you can get it done in a more this is what he talks about and so I got there right when they were funding the build out of that clinic nice of course I was a perfect fit for that some freaking PT clinics like duh like I did this for I did this all through college like I know what I'm doing so and then like and there's a great time like I got to be there when we hired everybody like when we hired the first you know the first athletic trainer the first PT the first nutritionist the first strength and conditioning coach like which is crazy to think about everything that you're just saying is the first the first the first the first but the sleep is crap and that's a disaster the other thing is when you talk about stress I mean I don't stress about a lot like even like and I think it's getting you know you get used to in the teams like what what you know I wrote about in this book like what you got to know what to worry about what's important what's not important and for me the list of things that are important is this list that has like four things on it is like is your fam is my family healthy my my 21st birthday to walk I can't remember I can't remember any of the names of the bars but we walk into this one bar it's really common one and Jason was standing up on the bar when I when I walked in choked a beer and then like slammed the bottle around why because I can't I'm like I'm gonna like this guy so that wasn't my birthday I take it back that's like when we first that was just like a Tuesday night that was like the first that's like the first time I think I'd been out in town right you have a three four year old kid bashing trucks together banging drums whatever you don't just throw that kid in a bed and turn the light on walk out they need a ritual they need time to get ready to go to sleep we study hunter gatherers today makes it's like 30,000 people who've never experienced electricity never experienced electricity they still live like our ancestors live they go out they hunt food hunting gather food for two hours a day the rest of the day they're fucking off having sex playing around whatever like they're the original aristocrat like that's where we would be if we stayed in that lifestyle so like you take your kid and what do you do it's like it's time for quiet play right put that stuff away so I think when they they they like shut me down and have me under investigation for a while and like I mean I essentially sacrificed my career for like there was no way I was getting any kind of Navy residency or anything because I was just in trouble all the time with Bumad or the hospital or Warcom whatever like everybody's then even like my name out about that I was practicing outside of my scope that I was like I was giving people was called Myers cocktails when I thought that it was adrenal fatigue IV vitamins apparently I'm not allowed to do that as a doctor and I'm like I feel like I'm I feel like I'm going the wrong I'm trying to remember what the building was like I was like I feel like I'm going the wrong way I remember I was doing I was training a guy for a fight an MMA fight and He was like ground and pound like we had gloves on like we're going at it and all of a sudden like I did something where I did A quick head movement and all of a sudden I got super like like more even more dizzy than normal I think I did like I participated in like 25% of that school like they couldn't make pants for me I have really big legs and kind of a normal waist and they kept making they're like trying to make khaki pants like from scratch like these girls and they were ridiculous I mean and I was like the most exciting thing I did which is kind of one of the reasons I got out is like you know it's just like the same training trips over and over again doing the same stuff over and over again it's like I don't think we're ever gonna go to war again like I'm gonna go do something else you know it's there's there's variation like when I was in I mean obviously the whole time I was in college and the whole time I was in medical school like I had a married and have kids you know like I'm coming over medical school like making dinner for my kids you know giving them baths reading them to sleep deprivation like it and so it's mainly like you know big executives or entrepreneurs traded their health for wealth for 20 or 30 years and now they had like a big exit whatever like you know they sold their company they have a hundred million dollars don't care about money they want to buy that health they want to be division one athletes again I'm like pump the brakes Sparky like maybe we can get you we can drop 40 pounds of fat off you in the year and get you back into being able to be physical I'm like yeah that matters like I said regards of how you feel now if you start having some serious problems and you need surgery revision like big care like that's you know what what if you know what what if and so he's he's like and it was like that for every injury like shin splints if you're at Bud's Medical you see 50 cases a week of shin splints and you just go down the list of shoulder injury and so the teams the same way like oh shoulder injury knee injury like you're just gonna see so many of it you get so good at it right that it's like an environment where you're just gonna learn so much it was great for you and like you know now at least you have wearables and you have people tracking their sleep and something like there's some you know there's something to make it a little easier for me and that and that respect but like there's I mean there's no question that's the most important aspect of your life and the big problem the other big problem of sleep is that when you so like the whole point of me going to sleep tonight is to repair everything that I did to myself today right everything that every fuel source I exhausted that needs to be replenished or any damage I've done that needs to be fixed and then I need to you store things and organize things and set hormone regulation for tomorrow I remember like one of the few days I was in khakis like somebody just remember she's super clear like way I sit in my desk and like remember putting this note the margin and then after he left I kept shadow files because none of the team guys wanted stuff in the record so I'm like I'm just keep a shadow file I give it to you when you leave you know I mean nobody nobody is like 100% of any fiber right and like in different muscles of your body you're going to have different makeup supplements so like everybody everybody couldn't train to some degree to get better at reasonably good at something if you really weren't it's just like any it's like your mental aptitude. and now you get more fat and more of your testosterone becomes estrogen and like it's this so defeating spiral I could just keeps getting worse like now you're getting fatter because your hormones are low but you're converting like you have higher estrogen levels because more fat means a more inspiring and so now you're know it's like it's the same thing of having high stress hormones because you're not sleeping well now you can't sleep because you have high stress hormones and now you know I'm not gonna get to sleep tomorrow you're gonna have even more stress so I can't get into any college I have to go to at least a year of junior college probably two and so I went there and like started setting the curve in every class that I thought maybe is gonna be like jadjee or something like an athletic trainer maybe a physical therapist if like things are really worked out great for me and to to apply to physical therapy school you have to like have 2000 volunteer hours I'm getting ready to go to bed like we we love that you know it's this this this is to support what you're talking about I know this a hundred percent if I don't get actually when I'm going to an event like if I'm gonna speak I sleep a little bit less because it makes me more and she's engaged with what's happening even more emotional like right I will be more emotionally engaged if I'm super well rested I'm just kind of like cool And by activity, I mean, you know, whatever, going on a walk doing like some zone to type of cardio, doing some movement, like you could do like whatever you could do like movement drills or something like that. and I think you kind of the thing about sleep like one of the things it makes then obviously I don't just do sleep but sleep to big component of what I do just because it's the most important factor of your health if I do my job well first of all the sales pitch sucks because what sleep good for everything what's the worst thing you can say in marketing like it fixes anything like every you're better at everything when you sleep well you're smarter you're faster stronger smarter you're better looking like everything everything's better lower stress hormones higher anabolic hormones better appetite regulation everything's better when you sleep Cause I like, I'd sit on the bottom of the pool, like I just want to stay here for like, and you know, now sort of I knew more of the physiology of like what I was now like a settling down my nervous system. and and I I managed to like put some pressure on a stroller and like pull him in to me and he and it was like essentially breaking his wrist backwards right because he and he couldn't get off of it because like the way his body position like he was just half his body weight was on his wrist and it was inverted and I'm just pulling on him and he's screaming they let him out so like I if I go to sleep I can't sleep eight hours like I will not sleep eight hours and not because of how many do you sleep I could have been at 10 30 wake up before 30 like that's kind of no seven hours six hours six hours six hours six hours six hours and sometimes I go to bed at 10 you know like they're six and a half hours and so I so I start walking to the patty wagon it's like a Toyota truck with like the built on kind of camper or whatever like a patty wagon thing and and the dude that I'd the tour patrol guy that I'd hit was like standing there holding the door smirking and said like said something smart he's like you have to treat everybody the same like no it's in the name special forces like they get special treatment like we're we're here because of the team guys we're not here for tech support like those guys can go to the hospital and so like what I was doing with the team guys is I was first doing it with like all supplements first I was getting guys to sleep and getting them off of the ambient right and that's that just came from me and I couldn't just say quit taking your ambient because our you know our community one is good two is better and three is probably great so they're taking like three ambient with we're taking seven they're taking three ambient with like a couple of cocktails and then they're waking up at 430 so I get her like just sleep hygiene just my sleep supplement no drugs no hormones like just like nutritional supplements and sleep hygiene ritual around sleep start sleeping eight hours and like as far as I know she still is you know like it was just like your PT was whatever your CO or whatever your exo was into so your exo like to run and swim guess what you were doing for PT like run swim swim run run if you got injured it was like but it's probably the only way to avoid becoming a martyr but for you you're sitting there looking at people that are hurting and you're like all right I'm gonna help you guys need help right now like it's totally totally worth it like I was fully aware of what I was doing I'm not I'm not whining about it like I knew what I was doing at the time I had a quote taped in my monitor from Buckminster Fuller said it said never fight the system create a superior system to make the old one obsolete and I was like what the hell like because I didn't understand the physiology at the time I'm like how can I still be gassing like all it like I'm doing all this endurance work We're like getting excited and like all these things and what I'm going to do, well, how much you know, compared to how much I know, what you know about my, like all this stuff, like is such a huge factor.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocko podcast number 367 with echo Charles and me Jocko willing a good evening echo good evening
[00:00:06] I don't like going to the doctor. Okay, just FYI. I don't like hospitals
[00:00:11] actually, I
[00:00:13] Always think that things are they're just gonna heal up right the body's just gonna Wolverine and just heal up and
[00:00:21] They do most of the time occasionally they don't
[00:00:26] One time I woke up in the morning, I couldn't move my right arm
[00:00:28] But didn't move which is not a good feeling. I
[00:00:32] Was like, okay. Well, it'll get better. It didn't
[00:00:35] Had to go to the doctor
[00:00:38] Went to the doctor got you know neck surgery. So unless something is really bad
[00:00:44] I'm not going to the doctor. I
[00:00:48] Don't know if that's left over from basic seal training where they you're avoiding medical at all costs
[00:00:53] Because you don't want to get rolled or anything, but it's stuck with me. Don't like the doctor a little while after I had neck surgery I
[00:01:01] Start I would start randomly getting dizzy
[00:01:06] Like
[00:01:07] Like dizzy like I just spun around in circles. Sometimes I would get really dizzy sometimes I would be trying to walk and
[00:01:15] I would be bouncing into walls. So I'm talking legitimately busy. I was nauseous a
[00:01:21] lot
[00:01:23] Almost almost like a continual almost all the time nauseous and
[00:01:30] Man sometimes jiu-jitsu I would be doing jiu-jitsu and I'd like roll or spin or something like that
[00:01:36] And it would just be the jet the whole gym would just start spinning
[00:01:40] sometimes I would roll over in bed at night and
[00:01:42] The room would start spinning it was then you know, you're feeling sick and I kind of learned
[00:01:49] To avoid some things, you know and jiu-jitsu I try not to go inverted and stuff like this and in bed
[00:01:57] I've learned to roll out if I wanted to roll over in bed or even to roll to get out of bed
[00:02:02] I would learn to do it very very slowly and avoid
[00:02:06] head movement
[00:02:08] And I thought it would go away
[00:02:09] And I'm waiting for go to a waiting for Wolverine blood to flow and for the problem to stop and it didn't stop
[00:02:15] So again went to the hospital once the doctor and they did all kinds of tests on me MRI tests and blood tests and they
[00:02:24] Ear nose and throat spine and they just did they look at everything and they didn't have an answer for me
[00:02:30] And so I'm just dealing with it just btf and just dealing with it
[00:02:36] and it definitely sucked and
[00:02:39] Then like so fast forward a year or something like that
[00:02:42] I'm actually starting my retirement processing and I'm starting my
[00:02:48] Retirement physical you got to get a physical before you retire and I'm talking to the doc for the West Coast seals and
[00:02:54] What's cool about this particular doc as he was a seal himself who had gone to the military medical school and become a doctor
[00:03:00] So, you know, we knew each other
[00:03:02] And he's get you know, we're hanging out and then he's given me sort of this the standard retirement physical questions
[00:03:08] About my health and I'm giving him the standard retirement answers, which is fine. Yep fine. Yep, that's fine
[00:03:16] And finally, you know, we're just kind of shooting shooting the breeze a little bit. He goes anything else, you know, did I miss anything and
[00:03:24] I said, well, you know
[00:03:27] No one's been able to help me but I'll throw it out there. I said, yeah, man for the last like year year and a half
[00:03:33] I've randomly
[00:03:35] Gotten just really dizzy sometimes and sometimes it lasts for a long time and it kind of never goes away
[00:03:42] I'm always in like a constant state of that
[00:03:45] He's like kind of tilts his head a little bit look to me and
[00:03:48] Kind of thumbing through my record. He seemed now that he's looking at his scenes a bunch of tests that I've been through and everything like this
[00:03:55] And he says, you know, I think I might know what this might be and
[00:03:59] He literally like turns to his computer and this is 2010 but
[00:04:03] Or maybe it was 2009 something like that because I retired in 2010
[00:04:07] But it was something it was like around that time, but he turns his computer and he googles some stuff
[00:04:11] And he's like here here look at this
[00:04:14] And he says benign positional vertigo
[00:04:17] He goes we got to do these little exercises
[00:04:20] and
[00:04:21] I'm like
[00:04:22] Okay, I mean, I don't know what he's talking about right benign positional vertigo. I don't know what this means and
[00:04:29] Then he like says okay lay down put your head over here turn it backwards turn over sit back up again
[00:04:34] And he goes just does like three or four times does these exercise and then like says all right stand up
[00:04:41] And he looks at me and he goes how how's that?
[00:04:44] And I'm like doing a self-assessment and I'm like
[00:04:49] Dude
[00:04:51] It's gone
[00:04:52] I'm good like literally in two minutes
[00:04:56] More than a year of dizziness and constant
[00:05:00] Tests and exams and this thing has gone in two minutes that seal doc
[00:05:05] Gave me my balance back
[00:05:08] And it was pretty freakin awesome and this particular doc has helped
[00:05:15] Countless other seals overcome countless health challenges of all kinds
[00:05:21] His name is Kirk Parsley
[00:05:23] And
[00:05:25] It's an honor to have him with us here today to talk about what he learned
[00:05:30] in his life in the teams and
[00:05:34] Taking care of team guys. So doc
[00:05:37] Thanks for coming by man. Hey, man. Thanks for having you remember that. I mean I know you see like eight million people
[00:05:42] So I remember very clearly
[00:05:45] Yeah, did you with the Eplume maneuver?
[00:05:47] Yeah, but you you you weren't like sure about it
[00:05:51] When you said it to me you're sort of like look at you kind of it was like
[00:05:55] It seemed as if you had heard a rumor about something that it could have been and you kind of like halfway remembered it
[00:06:01] And then you I could I could remember I could remember the name of the test that you do to test people for that right
[00:06:08] And I was like and I'm blanking on now
[00:06:11] It's like pikes haul something or like this and I was like hmm
[00:06:15] And you look for the nystagmus right the shaking of the eyes and something you do to like hop on the ground
[00:06:20] something you do to like hospital patients and
[00:06:23] And so I knew that part and I was like I know
[00:06:26] So there's a little stone in one of your semi-circular canals and it's blocking that and so the fluid's not flowing and it's the same as sea sickness or something right at that point and so
[00:06:35] I remember
[00:06:37] I remember well, there's there's a way to tilt there's a way to tilt this out and I couldn't remember if there's like a certain pattern could give three
[00:06:43] Canals and they're all at different angles. So that's why you like turn your head at all these different angles so many times
[00:06:47] And I was like, oh, I know there's another something to like do this and you know medicine's full of
[00:06:52] What called eponyms like you know the shit's just named after people right so what is Epley maneuver?
[00:06:59] It's not descriptive at all. So I don't know what the hell that means to somebody's name and there's a new
[00:07:04] I'm like there's some kind of thing and so that's what I googled like you know clearing
[00:07:10] Odell
[00:07:11] Yeah, and so it's just like clearing the stones that are in the semi-circular canal and I think I'm looking for that video
[00:07:18] I'm like, oh, here's how we do it. So I
[00:07:21] Remember like gleaning the table back down and going to do it right because like we knew each other. We didn't know each other super well at that point
[00:07:28] Me but you had your fucking
[00:07:31] BTF
[00:07:33] You know
[00:07:34] Reputation
[00:07:35] I don't know if I ever told you did you ever hear about the bracelets?
[00:07:39] No at our clinic right so we at the rehab clinic
[00:07:44] You know Jason chain trained all these guys and
[00:07:49] You know
[00:07:51] It's hard to bounce back from surgeries a lot of time right and people aren't all that motivated because they're just they're used to like this
[00:07:57] Performance. I mean I'm supposed to be up here and like they're barely like they're barely performing like a grade school kid or something
[00:08:05] And so there's always a motivation component and so he had these tests for people to like you know try to try to get to this level
[00:08:14] Try to get to that level try to it's like these progressive steps and so and then there was some sort of reward involved in it and that's
[00:08:20] That's how we ended up doing Sears Tower with Elliott and all that stuff like that was part of the reward kind of pathway and
[00:08:27] One thing we so this is heretic and I hope your audience doesn't hate me for saying this but the WW JD
[00:08:34] What would Jesus do bracelet weird like a hundred of those and we gave them and they were what would jaco do?
[00:08:41] And we had like this running list on the wall like
[00:08:45] Chuck Norris kind of
[00:08:48] My contribution was
[00:08:50] Jocko sleeps with the pillow under his gun
[00:08:52] Yeah, so you know you had reputation and I knew you're and it's and I remember doing all that and going oh this works
[00:09:04] And yeah, and and I and then we you know as we got to know each other more of the years
[00:09:09] I know you you had to do that. Do you still have to do it?
[00:09:12] I probably have to do it once a year and it but it's it's just such a non factor now
[00:09:17] I go there it is. I'm a little dizzy. I just do it and man. It's I was like that for a year and a half and it was
[00:09:24] Gnarly gnarly. I remember I was doing I was training a guy for a fight an MMA fight and
[00:09:31] He was like ground and pound like we had gloves on like we're going at it and all of a sudden like I did something where I did
[00:09:37] A quick head movement and all of a sudden I got super like like more even more dizzy than normal
[00:09:42] And I'm standing there. I'm like laying on my back and he's in my garden. He's punching me in the head and
[00:09:47] I look at the clock and the clock. There's like this was this was Thomas remember Thomas
[00:09:54] Yeah, yeah, I mean he's this freaking Polish warrior. Yeah, and he's punching me in the head and I'm there's like 20 seconds left
[00:10:03] And I'm just like please let this stop and I I got up and walk and I like was doing a drunk walk out, you know all unstable
[00:10:12] And he was kind of like looking at me as if he had hit me too hard or something is just like no, I'm leaving now
[00:10:20] That and when the good thing you have thick skull
[00:10:24] From that guy for sure. He's a beast. Yeah, I had a actually that's when that's when yawn the the
[00:10:30] Champ yeah, not currently but
[00:10:33] Hopefully coming back for it. Just part with that maniac dude. That's not a good way to be healthy
[00:10:42] Yeah, and then I had the I don't know if you remember this I I
[00:10:46] Go I
[00:10:48] Was training jiu-jitsu
[00:10:51] I didn't I did a no Dean did a
[00:10:55] Bicep slice on me and like my bicep like
[00:10:57] Popped and moved and I was like God you got a partial tear remember any and so I go in I see Jason
[00:11:02] I see doc and they're like yep. Hey, we can get you scheduled for surgery right now
[00:11:05] You know like and I go cool like sign me up. Let's rock and roll and then they go
[00:11:09] Okay, yep, we got you signed up your your surgery is gonna be in four weeks or something like this three weeks or something like this
[00:11:15] And they go come in on this day for your pre-surgery check
[00:11:18] I go cool and so I go in I'm like Jason you have him here for my pre-check and he goes
[00:11:22] He starts looking at me all weird and stuff like I'm not normal and he's like hey doc
[00:11:26] Can you come and they come and look at me and they're like
[00:11:29] You're healed
[00:11:33] And I was like yes, yeah, I I'm back. I see
[00:11:37] I remember I remember that like they're they're still being like some sort of defect in that and
[00:11:44] And we I remember we told you like well still might rip right with what you do because like you're resisting an arm bar or something
[00:11:51] You know you doing pull-ups, whatever. Maybe it might still rip and and you're like what happens if it rips or like
[00:11:58] Well, then you do this surgery like same surgery pretty much like well to see if it rips
[00:12:04] You just went on about your life and I guess it never ripped
[00:12:07] No, I'm not sure if it rips
[00:12:09] Now now echo over here. He's had one on each arm. He's done. I need that surgery twice
[00:12:13] Did I call you when you when that happened to me was I like hey, what's up? Yeah?
[00:12:16] So remember that's funny
[00:12:18] You don't remember because I was I'm glad you're here to kind of confirm that cuz I didn't believe I was like, right?
[00:12:23] It wasn't ripped. Yeah, you can it's not just gonna heal like that. Like it wasn't ripped like the doc made a mistake or whatever
[00:12:29] You're like no no, I'm like Wolverine Wolverine
[00:12:31] He's got a little bit of a point of view, but I think that's what he's talking about
[00:12:35] the doc made a mistake or whatever.
[00:12:37] You're like, no, no, no, no, I'm like, Wolverine.
[00:12:39] I was like, that sounds good.
[00:12:42] That does sound cool, but Brad didn't write or whatever.
[00:12:45] He was like, whatever.
[00:12:47] It was like an argument.
[00:12:48] We would kind of be-
[00:12:48] So do you accept now?
[00:12:49] I do accept.
[00:12:50] Yeah, thanks for confirming that.
[00:12:52] All right, enough about that.
[00:12:54] Let's get into you.
[00:12:54] Let's start at the beginning.
[00:12:55] So where were you born?
[00:12:58] Where were you born?
[00:12:59] Where'd you grow up?
[00:13:00] I was born in sort of a sub area of Houston, Spring,
[00:13:06] Spring, Texas, Spring Branch, actually.
[00:13:08] So Spring Branch Hospital in Houston, outside of Houston.
[00:13:11] And then is that where you spent your youth?
[00:13:14] Yeah, pretty much.
[00:13:15] So by today's standards, definitely,
[00:13:17] because Katie, where I'd spent like the second half
[00:13:21] of my childhood was in Katie,
[00:13:25] that was like 45 minutes outside of Houston then.
[00:13:29] And now it's just part of Houston.
[00:13:30] Like all the sprawl.
[00:13:32] Like you literally drove through like cow pastures
[00:13:35] and rice fields for 45 minutes.
[00:13:37] And then there was this one road,
[00:13:39] and you took that one road for like three or four miles,
[00:13:41] and then you ran into the neighborhoods of Katie.
[00:13:45] And last time I went there,
[00:13:48] there's no break from downtown Houston to that.
[00:13:51] It's like all concrete, jungle, like shopping centers.
[00:13:54] Big sprawl.
[00:13:56] I couldn't even find the house I grew up in.
[00:13:58] You think it's still there or no?
[00:13:59] It's still there.
[00:14:00] But like all the landmarks I knew to look for,
[00:14:03] and they've renamed some streets and stuff.
[00:14:05] And so when you get off the freeway now,
[00:14:08] there's streets immediately.
[00:14:09] Well, there was nothing, like I said,
[00:14:11] for three or four miles, there was just pastures
[00:14:13] where we rode our motorcycles and played football
[00:14:15] and whatever, even when hunting.
[00:14:18] And that was all, you know, on whatever farmland
[00:14:22] and on touch thicket.
[00:14:24] And it was just like buildings and shopping centers
[00:14:28] and streets.
[00:14:28] And I'm like, I don't really know how far down to go.
[00:14:32] And I was looking for the main kind of street
[00:14:34] that went through my neighborhood.
[00:14:35] And I think they renamed that street
[00:14:39] because they connected it and it's much longer now.
[00:14:41] And so I couldn't figure out where to turn left
[00:14:46] to like go into the neighborhood.
[00:14:48] So small town in Texas.
[00:14:50] How come you don't have a Texas accent?
[00:14:52] I do when I get really tired.
[00:14:53] It's kind of coming back more.
[00:14:57] I deliberately got rid of it.
[00:14:59] How come?
[00:15:01] Just to avoid being chastised for, you know,
[00:15:04] like being in the military and people screw with you about,
[00:15:09] because I listen to country music and I drove a truck
[00:15:11] and, you know, like, redneck, you know,
[00:15:18] Chris, my good friend of mine from the steel teams,
[00:15:22] he's from essentially Detroit, right?
[00:15:25] And he goes like, damn, Texas, go get me some chili.
[00:15:29] And everybody just rode me all the time.
[00:15:32] So I didn't have a super thick accent,
[00:15:34] but, you know, I purposefully got rid of it
[00:15:38] now that I'm back in Texas and everybody talks
[00:15:39] like I used to talk.
[00:15:41] It's coming back.
[00:15:42] It comes back.
[00:15:43] And then if I get really tired, I think my deflates,
[00:15:48] that's my rule.
[00:15:49] Like, I think it's an unconscious effort now
[00:15:52] to not do that and not.
[00:15:55] I've let the clochialisms come back.
[00:15:56] Like now I'm fixing to do something.
[00:15:58] I wouldn't do that.
[00:15:59] And I say y'all instead, you guys,
[00:16:01] and I've always thought that was more appropriate
[00:16:03] because like that's a contraction for you all.
[00:16:05] And guys, this is a gender word.
[00:16:08] So it doesn't make any sense.
[00:16:09] It's called a bunch of girls.
[00:16:10] Hey, you guys.
[00:16:11] Hey, y'all, right?
[00:16:12] So yeah, it kind of comes and goes.
[00:16:18] What'd your parents do?
[00:16:19] Well, my father split.
[00:16:24] That was what he did.
[00:16:25] So like about, I was like six weeks old or something.
[00:16:29] And so I actually met him at my wedding when it was 25.
[00:16:34] So what'd your mom do?
[00:16:35] My mom, so the first half of my childhood,
[00:16:42] I mean, we were poor trailer part trash, you know.
[00:16:47] And but my mom actually had to drop out of high school
[00:16:51] to raise her younger sisters
[00:16:52] because her parents ran off, you know.
[00:16:54] And so my mom had us when we were super young.
[00:16:57] Like me and my sister, she had like 18, 19 years old.
[00:17:00] And so she, you know, she got married
[00:17:05] right out of high school essentially.
[00:17:08] And so she went to, she's going to college
[00:17:11] and working as like a cocktail waitress or something
[00:17:13] like when I was young.
[00:17:14] And then when she remarried,
[00:17:16] just when we moved to Katie and she married a,
[00:17:21] who's a cop at the time and he'd went on to do other things.
[00:17:27] But she started working with Delta Airlines
[00:17:29] and was like a reservationist
[00:17:30] and then making my flight attendant.
[00:17:32] And then she retired from that
[00:17:34] and worked for Southwest as a flight attendant for a while.
[00:17:36] And now she's in her seventies
[00:17:38] and she just retired like a couple of years ago
[00:17:41] from Southwest.
[00:17:42] She's been getting after it.
[00:17:42] She's a hard, she's a hard like Irish redheads.
[00:17:46] Like feisty, wiry, straffy, strong woman, you know.
[00:17:50] And so, yeah.
[00:17:53] And she divorced that stepfather when I was like 16.
[00:17:58] He's a super, super abusive to everybody,
[00:18:02] but especially me.
[00:18:04] And so.
[00:18:06] So how did you react to that?
[00:18:10] Well, it was a big insult to me
[00:18:12] because I was the man of the house until that, right?
[00:18:14] So it was like eight, I was up, up until like eight years old.
[00:18:17] She got married when I was like eight or nine
[00:18:19] and a group of all women.
[00:18:21] So it's my mom, her mom, her sisters, my sister.
[00:18:26] And at five years old, they'd be like,
[00:18:30] Kirk, I think I heard something.
[00:18:32] Good look, right?
[00:18:33] So, okay.
[00:18:35] Get my red rider BB gun and like go and look in,
[00:18:38] look in the living room, see if anybody's there.
[00:18:40] Literally sent me out in the front yard to kill a water mox
[00:18:43] and with a BB gun.
[00:18:44] And thank God like a man was driving by
[00:18:48] and saw this shit show about to happen.
[00:18:50] I'm gonna go save this little boy.
[00:18:52] And so he came out and like, you know,
[00:18:54] and I taught me how to, you know,
[00:18:55] I'd stepped on the snake's head and cut its head off
[00:18:58] with his health and all that and whatever.
[00:18:59] So I was really blown away by the fact that.
[00:19:05] Some other dude showed up.
[00:19:06] Some dude's gonna like hurt my mother or hurt my sister,
[00:19:11] right?
[00:19:11] And so I'd always like try to get involved.
[00:19:13] And then he'd turn on me.
[00:19:15] And so that was my strategy for a while,
[00:19:16] but he's an evil fucking.
[00:19:19] Yeah.
[00:19:20] And so he figured out, well, it's worse
[00:19:23] if I don't turn on Kirk, right?
[00:19:26] Just let me keep trying to interject and just ignore me
[00:19:30] and keep me hurting my mom or whatever.
[00:19:33] So, so I grew up very fucking angry, very angry.
[00:19:38] And I went in to kill him and I fully planned on it.
[00:19:44] And, you know, my mom, I asked my mom for a wait set
[00:19:51] for Christmas when I was eight.
[00:19:55] Pumping iron had come out.
[00:19:56] I'd seen Arnold.
[00:19:57] Yeah.
[00:19:58] I was like, you know, the muscles,
[00:19:59] I'm gonna crush that mom.
[00:20:01] And I knew my dad was a big dude and kind of a badass
[00:20:05] and they knew each other.
[00:20:08] I grew up in kind of in the same town.
[00:20:11] And so I think I was a threat to him.
[00:20:14] I was my potential father.
[00:20:17] So his biggest fear of it was that I was gonna go
[00:20:19] to be better than him, bigger, better, faster,
[00:20:23] stronger, whatever.
[00:20:24] And all of this fears came true.
[00:20:27] But at 16, I had...
[00:20:33] So did you get the wait set at eight?
[00:20:35] I got the wait set at eight.
[00:20:36] You started a jacket steal?
[00:20:37] He came into me, he came into my room and was like,
[00:20:40] heard you want a wait set.
[00:20:41] You want a wait set, or you want to be one of those faggots.
[00:20:44] And I'm like, sorry, excuse me.
[00:20:46] And he's telling me, well, bodybuilders are all gay.
[00:20:49] And that's why they like shave their bodies
[00:20:52] and bury it on other men and all this other stuff.
[00:20:53] And I'm like, I don't think so, whatever.
[00:20:57] So I went to wait.
[00:20:58] So I didn't know what to do with him.
[00:20:59] I got like the little borrow with the concrete weights.
[00:21:01] Oh yeah.
[00:21:02] And I was grounded my whole life,
[00:21:04] the whole time I was with him.
[00:21:05] So if I got a bad report card,
[00:21:07] I got grounded to the next report card.
[00:21:09] And then grounded to the next,
[00:21:11] and then the last report card of the year,
[00:21:13] I was grounded six weeks into the summer,
[00:21:15] because that's when another report card would get.
[00:21:16] So I'd had like eight weeks of summer.
[00:21:19] Like that was the only time I had any kind of social life.
[00:21:21] So sat in my room a lot, got grounded in my room a lot.
[00:21:24] And I'd sit, like all I knew had to do was overhead press.
[00:21:27] That's what you think of it.
[00:21:28] I just sit there and like overhead pressed
[00:21:30] from front and back, from back, front,
[00:21:32] and then in curl, and that's all I did.
[00:21:34] And I just sit in my room for hours and just lift weights.
[00:21:39] And then every time I tried to take any kind of martial arts,
[00:21:43] he did everything, could thwart that.
[00:21:46] And so I'd get in something
[00:21:50] and he'd just make it impossible for me
[00:21:52] to stick with it and all that.
[00:21:53] So I was really, really angry.
[00:21:56] And the only reason I think I was good at football
[00:21:59] is because I was so damn angry.
[00:22:00] And I was a big, fast, strong kid.
[00:22:06] And I just literally wanted to hurt everybody I could.
[00:22:10] Like it was a way for me to hurt people
[00:22:11] and not get in trouble, because like getting in fights,
[00:22:13] you know, it's getting trouble for the fights
[00:22:14] or most of the time you get in trouble.
[00:22:15] How old were you when you started playing football?
[00:22:19] Actually, I started in kindergarten.
[00:22:22] I played, we lived on this island in the ship channel.
[00:22:25] That's where our trailer was.
[00:22:26] And it's Kema, Texas is the name of it.
[00:22:28] You know, it just now it's like a kind of a Ritzy tourist area.
[00:22:31] But it was just like this little blue collar crappy,
[00:22:34] did a bunch of shrimp boats and stuff.
[00:22:37] And so I lived there, literally my sister and I said,
[00:22:43] you're old and I, we walked to school,
[00:22:45] crossed these railroad tracks.
[00:22:46] And I remember walking to football practice,
[00:22:50] walking home from a football game,
[00:22:51] like me and my pads, her and her cheerleader outfit.
[00:22:53] And we're like walking probably two miles
[00:22:56] to school, going across these major roads,
[00:22:58] whatever it's like parenting
[00:23:00] was a totally different bag back then, right?
[00:23:02] But my mom was like, she's surviving.
[00:23:04] She's like going to school at night
[00:23:06] and or going to school in the day, working at night.
[00:23:09] And then her sisters were just kids too, right?
[00:23:11] Like her sisters are reasons, but they're 15.
[00:23:13] Like we're a 15 year old now.
[00:23:15] And like sometimes the 15 year old gets in the car
[00:23:18] when the car runs and drives this around and whatever.
[00:23:20] So it was a pretty sketchy scene.
[00:23:23] And then, you know, in Texas, you can start playing.
[00:23:25] So I played what we call dad's club,
[00:23:28] Pop Warner out here, right?
[00:23:30] I played that.
[00:23:31] And then in Texas,
[00:23:32] you can start playing for your school in junior high.
[00:23:34] Okay.
[00:23:35] And I had the head coach in junior high was a former Marine
[00:23:41] and he took a liking to me.
[00:23:44] And so I did well in junior high football
[00:23:47] and then transferred to the really,
[00:23:51] a really good football team by our high school.
[00:23:53] They're two high schools and Katie,
[00:23:57] the one I went to was the newer one.
[00:23:59] And they'd only been open a couple of years
[00:24:00] when I started it.
[00:24:02] But we were going to, we had a great coaching staff
[00:24:06] and you know, in Texas, like these dudes are making
[00:24:12] big money and like, and they got recruited out to Odessa
[00:24:15] my senior year, but really, really good coaching.
[00:24:19] And that's what led me into powerlifting
[00:24:22] is one of my coaches was a powerlifter.
[00:24:25] And he, and I don't know if I was the strongest
[00:24:30] in like every lift, but I was,
[00:24:31] I was one of the strongest in everything.
[00:24:33] And I was the strongest in several of the things.
[00:24:37] And so he was, he took a liking to me.
[00:24:39] And he's like, I'm gonna teach you how to lift for real
[00:24:42] cause you're like, you're just in this football lifting.
[00:24:43] And so he taught me like the below parallel squats, right?
[00:24:48] And I had to do it with a bar
[00:24:50] and then to do a hundred perfect reps before he'd let me
[00:24:52] put any weight on.
[00:24:53] Damn.
[00:24:55] And it took me like a month.
[00:24:56] He would sit down next to me and just watching.
[00:24:59] Yeah.
[00:25:00] Nope. And he'd turn around and walk away.
[00:25:03] That was it for the day.
[00:25:04] And for the, that was on the second rep.
[00:25:05] It was on the second rep.
[00:25:06] It was on the 98th rep.
[00:25:07] It was the 98th rep.
[00:25:08] And they're like, nope.
[00:25:09] And then did you, did you have the potential
[00:25:11] of playing in college?
[00:25:16] I could have played.
[00:25:17] I don't, I don't think I would have,
[00:25:19] I wouldn't have excelled.
[00:25:20] I just wasn't big enough.
[00:25:21] I mean, I was, I was, I actually grew a couple inches
[00:25:24] in the Navy.
[00:25:26] So I, when, when I enlisted at 17, I was five, 11.
[00:25:32] I grew like two, six, one somewhere
[00:25:35] in the first couple of years.
[00:25:36] I don't know.
[00:25:36] Did you, how did you hear about the Navy?
[00:25:41] Well, and did you, and did you know about the teams?
[00:25:44] Yeah. So that's a funny story.
[00:25:46] So the recruiter, we had a recruiting office in T and Katie
[00:25:51] and the recruiter, the Marine recruiter was a boxer.
[00:25:56] And, and my last year of high school, I lived alone,
[00:26:03] or I lived in an apartment with, actually with a guy
[00:26:06] who enlisted in the gym.
[00:26:07] So I split an apartment, but I know where I worked
[00:26:10] at a gym as, as like the assistant manager of this gym.
[00:26:15] And anyway, and I would box with this Marine recruiter
[00:26:21] and you know, Heartbreaker Ridge had already been out.
[00:26:23] So it was like, force recon.
[00:26:25] And, and I, you know, and I love, like I've always loved
[00:26:28] the water, like I've always been like,
[00:26:29] I was always a lifeguard and we were always like doing
[00:26:31] water sports and going to the beach whenever we could
[00:26:33] and all that stuff, working on breath holds
[00:26:36] just because it was cool.
[00:26:37] In fact, like I would go in a pool and just be so upset
[00:26:40] that I had to come up, right?
[00:26:41] Cause I like, I'd sit on the bottom of the pool,
[00:26:43] like I just want to stay here for like,
[00:26:45] and you know, now sort of I knew more of the physiology
[00:26:48] of like what I was now like a settling down my nervous system.
[00:26:50] Honestly, and I was feeling really good in there.
[00:26:52] And so, yeah, so anyway, then I started boxing
[00:27:00] with this Marine recruiter and, and this documentary
[00:27:07] came out 48 hours.
[00:27:10] It's a news documentary show, like it's like 60 minutes,
[00:27:12] but it was called 48 hours.
[00:27:15] And they followed a budge class, actually,
[00:27:18] Krimmins, you remember Krimmins?
[00:27:19] Yeah.
[00:27:20] So Krimmins was like the star of this.
[00:27:21] They're following a budge class.
[00:27:22] Okay.
[00:27:23] And they,
[00:27:24] Was he in the class?
[00:27:25] He was in the class.
[00:27:25] Like he was, he was the guy, right?
[00:27:27] Like he was the one, he was the guy who got all the camera
[00:27:29] attention because he was like this salty old,
[00:27:31] for sure, fisherman from Boston or something, right?
[00:27:34] Somewhere in New England.
[00:27:35] And, and they kept saying,
[00:27:37] this is the toughest training in the world.
[00:27:39] This is the toughest.
[00:27:40] And what did I grow up doing?
[00:27:41] Like with this abusive stuff out there,
[00:27:43] I wanted to be the toughest.
[00:27:44] I wanted to be the biggest badass in the world.
[00:27:46] Right?
[00:27:46] That's what I wanted.
[00:27:48] And so I would,
[00:27:50] I, I watched that thing,
[00:27:52] I recorded on VHS and I watched that thing like 20 times.
[00:27:56] And then waited for the Marine recruiter to be out of town.
[00:28:00] And I went over to the Navy and talked to him
[00:28:02] about being a seal.
[00:28:03] What year in high school were you?
[00:28:06] Well, it was my fourth year,
[00:28:07] but my fourth year I was only a sophomore by credits.
[00:28:11] So.
[00:28:11] Was that cause you just were failing everything?
[00:28:13] What was going on?
[00:28:14] I started failing classes as soon as my mom got remarried
[00:28:18] and I got in that world.
[00:28:19] Like when you have screaming, fighting
[00:28:23] and cops over at your house all the time, it's like,
[00:28:26] you know, and I'm grounded all the time at home
[00:28:28] and he's abusive and I'm obviously like hiding from,
[00:28:31] like, and it just,
[00:28:32] I wasn't going to be doing homework.
[00:28:33] And then like my sympathetic nervous system
[00:28:35] was ramped up to hell.
[00:28:36] Like I'm, I'm in fight or flight kind of all the time
[00:28:39] being home.
[00:28:41] And so, yeah, I,
[00:28:48] I, whatever, I, I, I was a screwed up.
[00:28:52] I was a super screwed up kid.
[00:28:54] But anyway, so Bivens out of town,
[00:28:57] I went and talked to the Navy recruiter
[00:29:00] and he's like, I've never put in a seal before.
[00:29:02] I don't know, I'll look into it.
[00:29:03] And that they just started the delayed entry program.
[00:29:06] So that started literally months before I signed up.
[00:29:11] So I told my mom what I wanted to do.
[00:29:13] And she's like, all right.
[00:29:14] So she signed off when I went on 17.
[00:29:15] She's like, cool, off the payroll.
[00:29:17] Yeah.
[00:29:17] And yes.
[00:29:18] So anyway, yeah, I, so from like third grade
[00:29:21] through four years of high school,
[00:29:24] I don't, I'd never really legitimately passed any class
[00:29:27] unless the teacher liked me.
[00:29:28] And then everybody starts telling you what a moron you are
[00:29:32] and you're afraid of people finding out.
[00:29:35] So you're like, you know, I don't,
[00:29:36] I want to call any attention to my stupidity.
[00:29:39] So I'm just like being quiet.
[00:29:40] And like, and so nobody, like none of my friends knew
[00:29:43] that I was behind in high school.
[00:29:44] Like none of my, none of my friends knew
[00:29:45] that I wasn't going to graduate.
[00:29:47] I knew I wasn't going to graduate
[00:29:49] because I wasn't going to stick around for two or three
[00:29:51] or four years to get through high school, obviously.
[00:29:54] And so when I joined, I was just like, you know,
[00:29:56] at some point I'm going to go to GED.
[00:29:58] And then, and then I took the ASFAB
[00:30:01] and actually did decent on that.
[00:30:05] And yeah, so I joined, and I didn't tell,
[00:30:11] I still didn't tell the Marine Corps,
[00:30:13] because I was like, Fred, you're just going to be so pissed off
[00:30:15] of me.
[00:30:16] And then, yeah, just like a month,
[00:30:21] we had all these street parties, you know,
[00:30:22] like vacant streets, you'd go,
[00:30:25] park our cars, turn our lights on,
[00:30:26] have keg parties and whatever.
[00:30:28] And it was always a mix of the high schools
[00:30:32] and there's always some friction
[00:30:34] because we were rivals, you know, in sports.
[00:30:36] And so about a month after I joined,
[00:30:39] about a month after my Marine career found out
[00:30:43] that I joined, I think it was a couple of months
[00:30:47] after I joined, I tried to break up a fight
[00:30:53] and the students swung on me and like graced me.
[00:30:56] I had decent enough head movement together
[00:31:00] the way everybody like graced me.
[00:31:02] And I was such an angry rage ball and so arrogant.
[00:31:07] I was maximally offended that somebody tried to this.
[00:31:10] I'm like, who the fuck do you think you are?
[00:31:13] So I try to look at the guy just bewildered
[00:31:16] and I guess there's something in my eyes
[00:31:17] that made him realize that he took off running.
[00:31:21] And so I took off running after him
[00:31:23] and I fucking body slammed him down the street
[00:31:25] and punch him in one of his buddies
[00:31:26] come and I should be beating his ass
[00:31:27] and I beat up these two guys, right?
[00:31:29] And just one guy, he's curled up in the fetal position
[00:31:32] and I'm picking him up by his ears
[00:31:33] and telling him to fight and he won't,
[00:31:34] not like just spitting his face.
[00:31:35] Like I was angry, nasty dude.
[00:31:38] And anyway, and so I pull up to see my Marine recruiter,
[00:31:44] or to see the Navy recruiter,
[00:31:46] I pull up to the recruiting office a few days later
[00:31:47] and the Marine recruiter comes out and says,
[00:31:51] so what's this I hear about you beating up on my Marines?
[00:31:54] And I'm like, huh?
[00:31:56] Yeah, so anyway, so I walked that thing over and over again,
[00:32:00] wanted to do toughest training in the world,
[00:32:03] went and joined, I didn't know what a seal was.
[00:32:08] I didn't even, I didn't know what a seal was
[00:32:09] when I was in Buds.
[00:32:11] I wanted to do the toughest training in the world.
[00:32:13] And yeah, I gradually learned more and more,
[00:32:16] but I still didn't know.
[00:32:17] Like when, I don't know if they did it when you went through,
[00:32:21] if you were a couple of years after me, I think, right?
[00:32:23] But they used to take us around
[00:32:25] all the different SEAL teams
[00:32:26] and then you had to rank choice,
[00:32:27] like the team, and you had to rank choice to the East Coast,
[00:32:30] well, also without visiting any of those.
[00:32:33] And I remember like when they started taking us around
[00:32:35] to the teams right before graduation,
[00:32:38] remember it kind of hitting me that,
[00:32:39] oh, I don't actually know what this used to do.
[00:32:42] Oh, here's how naive I was.
[00:32:45] So you remember the delayed entry program
[00:32:46] gave people three chances of passing the test.
[00:32:49] Okay.
[00:32:49] Okay, so you could take the PRT and if you passed it,
[00:32:53] you were guaranteed to go to Buds first.
[00:32:56] Because remember the way it was before,
[00:32:58] you could pass the PRT,
[00:32:59] but then your gaining command had to agree
[00:33:03] to let you go to Buds instead of coming to them,
[00:33:05] which almost never happened, right?
[00:33:06] So you had to go to the fleet for a couple of years
[00:33:08] to come back.
[00:33:09] So the delayed entry program was all about,
[00:33:11] if you passed the PRT, you'd definitely go
[00:33:12] and it gives you three chances to pass the PRT
[00:33:14] and then you get like some sort of promotion
[00:33:17] out of bootcamp, promotion out of A-School.
[00:33:20] And so, yeah, so I took the test
[00:33:25] and I remember his name was Petty Officer Winkler,
[00:33:29] he was the first class, he was a Vietnam Air Seal,
[00:33:32] like all Vietnam Air Seals, super cool guy.
[00:33:35] And so they had like a morning training
[00:33:39] for people who failed the test
[00:33:41] to go in and work on the swimming,
[00:33:42] work out, like whatever they weren't gonna go work out.
[00:33:45] So you had to get up a couple of hours earlier
[00:33:47] an hour earlier and you could go
[00:33:48] and they excused you from a little bit of your time
[00:33:52] at the, in your regular bootcamp company
[00:33:54] because we didn't have our own stuff back then, as you know.
[00:33:57] And so I just smoked the PRT and Winkler really liked me
[00:34:03] and he's like, hey, you should come in the mornings
[00:34:05] and you can coach guys.
[00:34:07] Cause obviously it worked at a gym
[00:34:08] and I was like sort of a personal trainer and stuff anyway.
[00:34:12] So I was doing that and then got to be really good friends
[00:34:15] with him and the other seal motivator.
[00:34:18] And after I coached people in the mornings,
[00:34:22] I'd end up sitting in their office shooting the shit.
[00:34:25] They'd be drinking coffee, I didn't drink coffee.
[00:34:27] And he said something about dive pay
[00:34:30] or hazard duty pay or something.
[00:34:32] And I was like, what's that?
[00:34:33] And he starts explaining it to me.
[00:34:36] And this light bulb goes off in my head.
[00:34:37] I'm like, I'm gonna get paid?
[00:34:40] And he thought that was the funniest damn thing
[00:34:45] he'd ever heard.
[00:34:45] So he took me around to every office.
[00:34:47] Like, tell them what you just said to me.
[00:34:49] And so I literally, I was just a dumb kid.
[00:34:55] Like I just wanted to go do this training.
[00:34:57] I didn't know it was gonna get paid.
[00:34:58] Like, why are you gonna pay me?
[00:35:00] Cause right now you're giving me a place to live,
[00:35:02] you're giving me clothes and then there's a chow hall.
[00:35:04] Like, what do I need money for?
[00:35:06] I figure, like I'm just gonna be training
[00:35:08] to kill people or going to kill people.
[00:35:09] And what else am I gonna do?
[00:35:11] Why do I need money?
[00:35:12] I didn't think about people having families and kids.
[00:35:15] Like, you know, you just think like,
[00:35:16] oh, there are guys in the military.
[00:35:18] That's what he does.
[00:35:19] That's all he does.
[00:35:19] I had a similar, I was in my first platoon.
[00:35:22] I think it was my first platoon.
[00:35:23] Or whenever I got paid per diem for the first time.
[00:35:26] Like they had to explain it to me a couple times.
[00:35:28] You know, you're getting, like,
[00:35:30] that was a wild concept.
[00:35:31] Okay, you're going to the desert and here's $1400.
[00:35:34] And I'm like, what's this for?
[00:35:36] And they're like, for your food.
[00:35:37] And I not only make a thousand bucks a month,
[00:35:39] they give me $1400.
[00:35:40] So you're like, wait, but I mean,
[00:35:44] what about when I'm not in the desert?
[00:35:46] I still got to buy food there.
[00:35:47] But yeah, but when you're there,
[00:35:48] we're going to give you money to buy your food.
[00:35:49] I'm like, okay, I'll take it.
[00:35:52] It took a while to comprehend that the whole thing.
[00:35:54] When you got to Buds, was there any challenges
[00:35:57] for you at Buds?
[00:35:59] Yeah, the runs.
[00:36:02] I was a, I was a-
[00:36:03] What did you weigh?
[00:36:04] 230.
[00:36:06] Yeah.
[00:36:07] And not a fast runner.
[00:36:11] I was a great sprinter.
[00:36:12] Yeah.
[00:36:13] You know, I was a fast twitch.
[00:36:14] You're just like fast twitched human.
[00:36:16] And like when we did Frog Hill.
[00:36:19] Dude, I remember one time I was talking to you,
[00:36:20] and you're like, I thought you're like,
[00:36:23] oh, what you, I mean, you're deadlifting that.
[00:36:25] And I was like, dude, I can like, I deadlift.
[00:36:27] The most I've ever deadlifted is like 505 or something.
[00:36:30] And you looked at me like I was scum.
[00:36:32] I was like, damn, that hurt, bro.
[00:36:38] So yeah, you're all fast twitching.
[00:36:40] So the runs kicked your ass.
[00:36:41] Yeah.
[00:36:43] I struggled and I knew I would.
[00:36:44] Cause I, I mean, I struggled in preparation.
[00:36:46] So when I first decided to join the Navy,
[00:36:51] the Marine recruiter actually talked to a seal
[00:36:54] and had the, and had the guy talk to me.
[00:36:57] So I had a phone call with the guy.
[00:36:59] And, and he said,
[00:37:03] well, it sounds like your biggest problem
[00:37:04] is going to be running.
[00:37:05] Cause I'd, all they'd done it, like I ran track and field,
[00:37:08] but I did like, I, the furthest,
[00:37:11] I, the furthest I ever ran was 400 yards,
[00:37:14] 400 meters, right?
[00:37:15] Like that was the furthest I'd ever run in my life.
[00:37:18] I'd never done a mile on a track.
[00:37:20] Never.
[00:37:21] And so, and I hated that.
[00:37:24] Like in football,
[00:37:25] and to be like, take a lap to warm up, right?
[00:37:28] I'm like, I'm smoke.
[00:37:29] So like, what do you mean warm up?
[00:37:31] Like I'm done.
[00:37:32] Like a, come back from a lab.
[00:37:34] Well, what are you kidding me?
[00:37:35] And unfortunately my son inherited that from me.
[00:37:39] So this, this seal sold me.
[00:37:42] So the biggest problem for you is going to be to run.
[00:37:44] You need to be running like 10 miles a day.
[00:37:46] I'm like, I don't really, okay.
[00:37:49] So I'm like, I don't know where I'm going to run 10 miles.
[00:37:51] So I go out in the, like the main street,
[00:37:53] that's all the one that gets from the freeway down to my town.
[00:37:55] And it goes several miles the other way.
[00:37:57] So I clocked it off in my car and it's five miles.
[00:38:01] I'm like, well, I'm just going to run down to the end
[00:38:03] of this thing and back 10 miles a day.
[00:38:05] I didn't even have any shoes.
[00:38:06] Like I, I owned like one pair of shoes.
[00:38:08] They were like top-siders.
[00:38:09] And so I just ran barefoot down concrete streets.
[00:38:13] I'd start running 10 miles a day and I did it.
[00:38:16] I mean, I'm sure I didn't do it every day,
[00:38:18] but I like my memory is it's like, I just did it every day.
[00:38:23] And then when I got, and I, and then I started timing myself
[00:38:30] in the mile and a half because right,
[00:38:31] we had the PRT and I knew I had to hit a certain time.
[00:38:34] And that, that I didn't regret it.
[00:38:36] Like I probably, I probably only beat that qualification time
[00:38:40] like 30 seconds, 20 seconds, something like that.
[00:38:44] Like when I, and then when I went to a school,
[00:38:47] I really focused on running a lot.
[00:38:51] And I did like a couple of 10 Ks.
[00:38:53] And I, I got to where it's running like six and a half
[00:38:55] minute miles and 10 issues and shorts on a road on the street.
[00:38:58] Right.
[00:38:59] So I think the cutoff time in about like seven and a half
[00:39:01] minutes or something and pants and boots on the sand.
[00:39:04] So it was, it was all I could do.
[00:39:06] I mean, I was always in the Goon squad,
[00:39:08] I was in the Goon squad, every run I was in the Goon squad.
[00:39:11] But it was almost always the first guy out
[00:39:12] because it was like bear crawl races or sprints or like
[00:39:16] something like that.
[00:39:16] And like, hey, that's my bag, baby.
[00:39:18] In fact, you remember Frog Hill out of the island.
[00:39:21] Yep.
[00:39:22] It's like you had to do pull ups before the meal
[00:39:23] or you had to do Frog Hill.
[00:39:25] I was so fast at Frog Hill and I, and I like anybody else.
[00:39:30] I'm going through Bud's scared to death that I'm getting
[00:39:32] kicked out every, every day, every day, like every second.
[00:39:35] It's like they're about to figure out,
[00:39:36] I'm a machine here and I'm getting tossed, right?
[00:39:39] And so I just like a real, just keep your head down.
[00:39:42] Like the most humble time of my life was, was Bud's
[00:39:45] and I wasn't going to bring any attention to myself.
[00:39:48] And I don't think I really realized I did it
[00:39:51] because I think they had kind of groups or something.
[00:39:53] And I, I mean, I just smoked everybody in my class.
[00:39:57] Like I, I think I was, I was almost all the way back down
[00:40:00] before anybody got to the top.
[00:40:02] And so then there's this one instructor who decided
[00:40:05] I must be sandbagging the runs
[00:40:06] because look how good he is at running, right?
[00:40:08] And so, so he just turned on me and like, you know,
[00:40:10] it's just beat down boy.
[00:40:12] And then they got to where they were dropping me
[00:40:15] for pushups when they started the class
[00:40:17] and I still had to meet the time.
[00:40:19] And then after a while I was like,
[00:40:20] you have to beat everybody or you're still going
[00:40:22] to the surf zone.
[00:40:23] So I had to, what was the second phase?
[00:40:26] Like 40 pushups or something?
[00:40:27] I don't know, I don't remember.
[00:40:28] I think it's, I think it's like 20, 40, 60 or something
[00:40:30] like that.
[00:40:31] That's probably the phases.
[00:40:32] And so whatever it was in second phase,
[00:40:33] I had to do the pushups and then I sprint
[00:40:35] and I would still win.
[00:40:37] And like, I was really good at that.
[00:40:40] And I just sucked it at the run.
[00:40:42] And you'd barely passed the four mile time runs?
[00:40:44] Barely.
[00:40:45] I mean, every run was like five, four, three,
[00:40:49] and me diving across the finish line.
[00:40:51] Like, I mean, in fact, one of the instructors,
[00:40:55] because I was pretty good at everything else.
[00:40:57] Like some of the calisthenics stuff,
[00:40:58] like flutter kicks forever, like I wouldn't,
[00:41:00] like that's just too enduring for me.
[00:41:02] Like I couldn't, but, but I was always like,
[00:41:09] I'm pretty sure it's the biggest,
[00:41:11] but I was definitely like one of the top two.
[00:41:13] Yeah, two threes, a big dude to be going through.
[00:41:15] Well, I finished at 185.
[00:41:18] Oh, damn.
[00:41:20] And they, I started buds at 174.
[00:41:22] I graduated buds at 185.
[00:41:24] Holy.
[00:41:25] So you and I met in the middle.
[00:41:26] Yeah.
[00:41:27] I think they called me like the cyborg gorilla or something.
[00:41:30] Cause like I lost all my muscle mass in my torso,
[00:41:34] but my arms didn't get smaller.
[00:41:36] So I looked like a gorilla.
[00:41:38] Like I was just, I was just a weird looking thing.
[00:41:40] But you know, I could do like anybody, like you graduate buds,
[00:41:43] I could do like 600 pushups in a row.
[00:41:45] Right?
[00:41:46] Now I remember going to the gym the first time after buds
[00:41:51] and I couldn't bench two plates.
[00:41:54] And I was literally, I almost cried.
[00:41:58] Like I was sitting there going, oh God.
[00:42:00] Like I had tears rolling up in my eyes.
[00:42:02] I was like, I could go outside.
[00:42:03] And I like, oh my God.
[00:42:05] You know, cause I mean, I wasn't super strong,
[00:42:09] but I was, I mean, definitely like well into the 300s
[00:42:11] in high school, right?
[00:42:12] So I expected to be stronger.
[00:42:14] And I'm like, I can't bench my body weight.
[00:42:17] Right?
[00:42:18] I'm weak.
[00:42:19] But it all, yeah, obviously it comes back pretty fast.
[00:42:22] Yeah.
[00:42:23] Do you remember when they started talking
[00:42:25] about medium twitch muscle?
[00:42:27] Do you remember the timeframe that that happened?
[00:42:30] Because I remember reading about.
[00:42:32] Intermediate fibers man?
[00:42:34] I guess maybe.
[00:42:35] I just remember I was never,
[00:42:37] I wasn't like the fastest guy,
[00:42:38] but I wasn't like the most endurance guy.
[00:42:41] So I'm like the loser that I couldn't win a sprint
[00:42:44] and I couldn't run, I couldn't win
[00:42:45] the freaking four mile time run.
[00:42:47] Right.
[00:42:48] And I figured out eventually when I started hearing
[00:42:50] about like intermediate twitch muscle,
[00:42:52] that there's certain people that have this thing
[00:42:54] and that was me.
[00:42:55] And I was like, oh yeah.
[00:42:56] Cause like I could put on a rucksack and just go forever.
[00:42:58] Right.
[00:42:59] And then when I did jujitsu,
[00:43:01] like I have really good endurance.
[00:43:03] Yeah.
[00:43:05] Have you seen me get tired?
[00:43:06] No.
[00:43:07] So I've been training with him for like 10 years.
[00:43:08] Never seen me get tired.
[00:43:09] I remember training with you
[00:43:10] and like watching you roll guys
[00:43:12] and you just had like sweat pouring off of it.
[00:43:14] Yeah.
[00:43:15] Like breathing through your nose
[00:43:17] and like just calmly mashing people.
[00:43:19] I'm like, that killed me in jits.
[00:43:22] Like I, cause I mean I'm good for like three minutes.
[00:43:25] I'm then if my, if I haven't won in three minutes,
[00:43:29] Like by the time when you do like three minute rounds or whatever after class by the time
[00:43:35] I get to like I mean I might as well be rolling with the five-year-old girl because I have
[00:43:38] nothing I have no strength whatsoever.
[00:43:41] Yeah, yeah.
[00:43:42] But I just didn't have that that explosive you know again like max deadlift like I'd
[00:43:48] be embarrassed to be like dude I'm just pathetic.
[00:43:51] Yeah.
[00:43:52] And that's just the way it is.
[00:43:53] I mean it's just a different you get you get your certain genetic thing and that's what
[00:43:57] you're going to you can work on it a little bit.
[00:43:59] Yeah.
[00:44:00] You can get to do a lot of push-ups instead of a lot of bench I guess apparently.
[00:44:03] Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:04] Yeah.
[00:44:05] Well I mean you I mean nobody nobody is like 100% of any fiber right and like in different
[00:44:12] muscles of your body you're going to have different makeup supplements so like everybody
[00:44:18] everybody couldn't train to some degree to get better at reasonably good at something
[00:44:23] if you really weren't it's just like any it's like your mental aptitude.
[00:44:25] But like you would have 0% chance of being a good marathon runner.
[00:44:29] Yeah.
[00:44:30] You here's how smart I am though when I was in medical school and residency I knew that
[00:44:36] the smart thing to do then was to start doing triathlons because I was going to get good
[00:44:42] at this damn endurance thing finally right so when I was in college I worked full time
[00:44:47] and I went to school I worked part time and but it is a lot of it for part time it's like
[00:44:52] 30 hours a week and then I went to school full time and you know for half of it I was
[00:44:58] married and had kids and whatever so like I was burning the candle at both ends you
[00:45:04] know staying up late for get papers and whatever finals and all that and so all I really had
[00:45:11] time to do was run so I'd come home and I ran and it started like running three miles
[00:45:16] and then it's four and then it's five and then six and then I said you know I'm going
[00:45:20] to do a marathon because you know whatever I've never been good at endurance I'm going
[00:45:25] to get good at endurance so I did a marathon brutal like I have the type of endurance where
[00:45:33] like if I go slow I can go forever but I don't I can't go fast like if I go fast and I go
[00:45:39] if I go anaerobic once and hit like that black gas or threshold like I'm done like I'm done
[00:45:45] in fact I did that on one of the triathlons so it's anyway I did that and then I started
[00:45:50] doing well I'm going to do triathlons and so I started with the super frog did you how
[00:45:54] much weight did you have to lose a bunch of weight or did you lose weight or you're not
[00:45:57] or just go Clydesdale yeah it's doing Clydesdale and something happened to me at some point
[00:46:03] my life is after the teams so it was during college I think my body weight like settled
[00:46:09] out around 240 give or take five pounds right nothing I did change that and to this day nothing
[00:46:16] changes that I can starve myself like I can lose weight for a little while but like give
[00:46:22] me two days and I'm right back to 240 I can be like kind of doughy and soft and out of
[00:46:27] shape and only 240 I can be ripped and like nobody fat 240 it's like that's just what
[00:46:32] I went and so I was running marathons at that at that weight and so I did the super frog
[00:46:40] and because you know it's the original like throwback to the teens like it'd be cool
[00:46:46] and so I and they have a cutoff time right like if you don't finish by certain time
[00:46:50] and it's basically a half triathlon right yeah yeah it's a half iron man so it's 1.2
[00:46:56] mile swim 56 mile bike ride and half marathon and so I do it and if you don't make the cutoff
[00:47:05] time then you're you're DNF right did not finish same as somebody who drops out I made
[00:47:11] it by like three minutes I think it was like seven and a half hours and there's dudes doing
[00:47:15] this thing this guy's doing it like two and a half hours right and so I finish and barely
[00:47:21] make it three years later I've been doing triathlons the whole time right I ride my
[00:47:26] bike to work or ride my bike back and forth to school the hospital or whatever you know
[00:47:32] running whenever I can I'd never really practice a swim because I actually just did side-strike
[00:47:37] because my side-strike was as fast as my crawl anyway so I just did that and you can do that
[00:47:42] forever obviously like after buds like you get so you get so efficient at that movement
[00:47:47] I could go 20 miles today probably and so I do it again three years later two minutes
[00:47:54] faster after all that training like this like when I was training it when I was training
[00:48:04] it Odin Neto school do you know yeah so it's training at his school and I was it was like
[00:48:12] incorporating the jet training into my bike ride like to like their nose bike to the hospital
[00:48:18] and then leaving the hospital and stopping by there and then going and so that it like
[00:48:22] five or six miles to my commute and and I still gasped all the time and I was like what the
[00:48:30] hell like because I didn't understand the physiology at the time I'm like how can I still be
[00:48:34] gassing like all it like I'm doing all this endurance work and I'm still gassing on the
[00:48:38] mat like I remember the first time he had us do like he put out like whatever the five
[00:48:43] or six black belts and it's like you're gonna roll two minutes here and then and then the
[00:48:47] last guy rolled with this him I mean he just like thought yeah fall over it thought me at
[00:48:52] fall like I couldn't do like a dream for like a guy that owns a school that's a black belt
[00:48:57] and Odie probably ways what do you think Odin Neto would 70 yeah maybe 170 yeah so he's
[00:49:02] just like oh I get to beat up this seat yeah I always try to keep it on the download it
[00:49:08] has a seal but it gets out eventually right and then the soon as you're just a jacked 240
[00:49:12] pound dude yeah they won't be with a white belt on right yeah Jeff Glover Jeff Glover
[00:49:19] and I've seen this now he the best the worst I call the best the worst but it's the easiest
[00:49:27] for him to go against a guy that's big and strong like he he is if he sees a guy that's
[00:49:33] big and strong he's like oh yeah I'm gonna have fun with them and I've watched him do
[00:49:36] it watch like big jack guys come in and he just is all over him and you see like another
[00:49:40] guy that's more his size or a guy that's you know long and lanky or whatever it's more
[00:49:45] trouble for him but a big jack guy he's like I got this fool yeah he didn't he did like
[00:49:50] some sort of exhibition here or something with him another guy like yeah he's bar I mean
[00:49:56] all kinds of stuff he's like watching two snakes yeah I mean he's just like this I mean
[00:50:00] this rolled forever like from yeah from position to position position attempt attempt attempt
[00:50:06] just like I can't even follow that freaking nuts alright so you get done with buds did
[00:50:13] you do get rolled at all no that's good and you're you're what you're 18 19 years old
[00:50:20] so I technically yeah so I was I was 19 because I graduated and technically because we actually
[00:50:27] had Christmas break before we graduated we should have graduated so we're really done
[00:50:32] with buds and I think we had like a 13 mile time to run around left or something or it
[00:50:37] wasn't timed right it wasn't was there was some time to it but it wasn't the same as
[00:50:41] is like yeah four mile I think it was more like you better not you better pass it type
[00:50:44] thing yeah but there's I think it was a time like three hours yeah I think there was a
[00:50:48] time limit but it wasn't three hours for it was it wasn't like the same consistent yeah
[00:50:52] like everything else was like whatever the that's that same time I think it was seven
[00:50:57] and a half minute miles was like the cutoff on all that stuff and that I think was a little
[00:51:01] longer but so that's all we had to do is come back and do that and then we were graduating
[00:51:06] so so I graduated technically in January of 90 okay and then you had to go to the airport
[00:51:13] in March I would have turned 20 okay so yeah it's not end of night yeah then we went to
[00:51:18] we were the first class that they sent us a class oh really they hadn't done it in a
[00:51:22] really long time man did we get in trouble oh yeah oh yeah we get and we were there the
[00:51:27] first time anybody died in jump school really and the dude I mean he was like from here probably
[00:51:35] to probably to the mats like that far away from me like I heard that he just wrapped
[00:51:42] in what happened to him we're doing combat equipment and he I don't know if his exit
[00:51:49] was bad or whatever but he ended up inverted with his leg cotton and and the risers and
[00:51:58] and he cigarette rolled to some degree and he pulled his reserve but his ruck was on
[00:52:03] top of it because it had flopped on it so he's 19 he's from Texas and he just I mean
[00:52:09] I heard that dude hit and then something like just like after you shoot a deer or something
[00:52:13] you hear the right that I remember that so clearly and then anyway we you know we'd go
[00:52:22] in the chow hall there and you know how the the army kids are taking that school seriously
[00:52:27] and we're we're cocky as shit like on you can't whatever this is a joke for us and so
[00:52:33] we'd sit around and smoke and joke in the in the chow for like an hour and like you know
[00:52:38] keep going back and whatever and so this Stars and Stripe reporter comes around he starts
[00:52:43] trying to ask everybody questions army kids are you know eating like a robot and then
[00:52:48] bolt out the door right and and so we're like hey I won't tell you what happened so we told
[00:52:56] him that we told him that that the guy didn't hook up because he was going to DOR at the
[00:53:02] door and the instructor pushed him out and of course we had no idea what went on and
[00:53:08] they printed it and they said oh my as told by any Navy personnel and so like then our
[00:53:13] whole class gets called up in front of the head of the school like if you don't tell
[00:53:18] me who did this throwing all of you out of course no one's gonna say anything right
[00:53:23] I remember like all right throw us all out that's better than yeah getting rid of one
[00:53:27] of our guys right better than being a rat right and so nobody said anything the school shut
[00:53:31] down for like two weeks and we just got like hammered on like all the time like all day
[00:53:35] every day they're trying to break out and now the dude ended up printing or traction
[00:53:39] effort but yeah the first time anybody died so there's a couple weeks there had to have
[00:53:43] been other people that died at airborne school they told us is the first time anybody's ever
[00:53:47] burned in that seems impossible it does they put out thousands and thousands of paratroopers
[00:53:54] every week now maybe it's the first guy that died in a while or something like that maybe
[00:53:59] but they did they shut us down they shut the school down we're gonna get fact checked on
[00:54:02] that one yeah we they shut the school down and we did I mean just like nothing for like
[00:54:08] two weeks and then when we finally jocked up to go again they were still super edgy
[00:54:13] oh yeah and we set like we set jocked up and combat equipment for like six hours waiting
[00:54:18] 100% to get in to get in the plane and jump out for five seconds yeah it was it was it
[00:54:25] wasn't a cool fun a cool time so you end up checking in it you go to team five yeah and
[00:54:30] this is what 1990 now 1990 yeah STT what we called it then yeah and so that's QT and that's
[00:54:37] at the team yeah every team did their own yeah yeah that's what I went through yeah you
[00:54:43] would have known um you were what 177 177 what class 3 or what 163 164 164 yeah yeah new
[00:54:52] guy always so you get your first platoon any any any big deal from STT pretty straightforward
[00:55:01] no we did we did they just hand you out an M60 and so here you go yeah you're a jacket
[00:55:05] was what you do with me yeah because I got I I I hate you know I hated that M60 and I
[00:55:12] don't want to carry a little poodle weapon pink and ding ding I like the spring sound
[00:55:17] like you know cap gun I want a real gun man I loved the 60 and a super mechanical right
[00:55:23] like I grew up like working on everything and like super mechanical so I was really good
[00:55:27] at clearing the jams and knowing how to you know work the weapon really well and I really
[00:55:31] enjoyed it hell yeah oh yeah then you so that's what you get your first platoon yeah and first
[00:55:37] lieutenant rep 60 first lieutenant rep get some yeah and actually halfway through my
[00:55:44] first platoon I became the department lead as a new guy right on and then and then I was
[00:55:51] like always first lieutenant for my other two platoon just motorhead your motorhead yeah
[00:55:58] so you're getting in there so we and you're going on deployment I mean what's work up
[00:56:05] like what are you guys focused on what's the big mission I know I'm when I was you know
[00:56:10] for my early platoons it was always like we were preparing for like one big mission that
[00:56:14] we would pray would happen like we wouldn't we as much as I prayed for war which I did
[00:56:19] yeah I couldn't have dreamed of like a two decade long war like I thought if we're lucky
[00:56:27] we'll get some kind of a one mission you know there'll be something will happen and if we're
[00:56:33] in the right spot at the right time maybe we'll get to do one thing yeah that's how
[00:56:37] scarce it was yeah people don't know that you're like competing like used car salesman
[00:56:41] for any work that comes out for your special forces are it's like you have to have somebody
[00:56:46] jockey and to try to get the work was Gardner in your first platoon no he was in he's in
[00:56:52] my sister you guys get like rolled up or something yeah yeah my my 21st birthday to walk I can't
[00:57:03] remember I can't remember any of the names of the bars but we walk into this one bar
[00:57:06] it's really common one and Jason was standing up on the bar when I when I walked in choked
[00:57:15] a beer and then like slammed the bottle around why because I can't I'm like I'm gonna like
[00:57:23] this guy so that wasn't my birthday I take it back that's like when we first that was
[00:57:29] just like a Tuesday night that was like the first that's like the first time I think I'd
[00:57:34] been out in town really you know it wasn't a big deal because I'd already obviously you
[00:57:38] could go drink at any age but my 21st birthday is like oh so the whole platoon well first
[00:57:44] of course yeah they were rigorous tape me and throw me in shit river so and it was so
[00:57:50] I was so stupid because we had like a trailer right divided in half and P.I. did you guys
[00:57:56] have the same thing I didn't avoid the P.I. missed it oh yeah right because of the mountain
[00:58:00] too but yeah so we had the just like a regular trailer and it was like partitioned and there
[00:58:04] was a platoon space on each side and they had like a regular half padlock on on the outside
[00:58:12] and so we were walking up we were walking up to our trailer and our sister platoon
[00:58:20] was in there was in their side and my LPO goes up and you know like puts their has been
[00:58:26] like while they're while they're in these lock and so I think I like locking them in
[00:58:29] right and then we have our platoon meeting and then he goes and then at the end of the
[00:58:35] meeting he looks around he says hey whatever you guys do I don't want you to rigorous tape
[00:58:44] buck up and throw me shit river and I look around and every single guy's holding a roll
[00:58:50] of rigorous tape and I totally missed this the whole time I'm like oh you gotta be kidding
[00:58:56] me man now I realize oh that side's locked that's what that was about and it was just
[00:59:05] a shit fight man I mean just like 45 minutes and finally got just grabbed my balls and
[00:59:12] just started squeezing my balls every year like that's the fight ender okay alright everyone
[00:59:17] is a tough guy tape me up guys grabs your nuts and start squeezing them yeah and anyways
[00:59:22] and yes so when we go we go out in the town and I don't even remember how it started like
[00:59:29] I don't even hardly remember the fight at all but I like knocked some short patrol guy out
[00:59:36] and just went to the bar because I was drunk more on and like I'll be fine like he's unconscious
[00:59:42] would you so I go in the bar and then when we come out of the bar they're like there
[00:59:47] he is and like all these people start swarming up and try to run and then like a hit some
[00:59:51] other guy while I was trying to run away and they finally got us and then or got me and
[00:59:57] then a handcuff me in front and I'm like you know even a drunk guy's like that's a dumb
[01:00:05] idea and so I so I start walking to the patty wagon it's like a Toyota truck with like the
[01:00:11] built on kind of camper or whatever like a patty wagon thing and and the dude that I'd
[01:00:21] the tour patrol guy that I'd hit was like standing there holding the door smirking and
[01:00:24] said like said something smart and I fucking hit him again with both hands in front of
[01:00:28] him like he he went out cold and hit his head on the bumper and I was like well that's
[01:00:32] really good so then they don't recognize how stupid we can be yeah yeah they just don't
[01:00:38] know yeah so then they throw me in the patty wagon and I'm drunk I just like through the
[01:00:43] wagon spin and I'm so drunk and so I lay down on my back and put my feet in the corners
[01:00:49] and then when we get to the jail so wouldn't when I get in there Jason's in there with
[01:00:52] me and he's like hey man I'm like hey and they like he I don't know what he was in
[01:00:56] there for I don't even remember and then they get us to the police station and they pull
[01:01:01] everybody out and I'm like I'm not getting out and they they're trying to pull me out
[01:01:05] they can't get me out and so they lock the door and they go in and they come back and
[01:01:10] try to get me out again I won't get out and then they bring out this big their big tough
[01:01:16] guy short patrol guy whatever and he's gonna get me out and so they put him in and lock
[01:01:19] the door and and I I managed to like put some pressure on a stroller and like pull him
[01:01:26] in to me and he and it was like essentially breaking his wrist backwards right because
[01:01:32] he and he couldn't get off of it because like the way his body position like he was
[01:01:35] just half his body weight was on his wrist and it was inverted and I'm just pulling
[01:01:38] on him and he's screaming they let him out and then I'm still laying there and then all
[01:01:44] of a sudden I hear this maybe 45 minutes go by and I hear my officer go hey buck I was
[01:01:50] like yeah let's go my god and I get out they unhand cuff me and and I went back to barracks
[01:01:56] with him and then you know your your senior chief whatever goes and smooths things over
[01:02:00] the next day gives a guy a case of beer or whatever like this is stupidest time you know
[01:02:06] like we like all of our excitement was self-induced and and I was in for the first goal for right
[01:02:12] like it the so the first golf or shut my work up down was that your first work my first
[01:02:19] work up yeah and and we were we were so we got the cool thing was because of that whatever
[01:02:26] the they thought the mission set was they we became a freefall platoon so the first thing
[01:02:30] I did was go to freefall school I think I only had like two or three more jumps whatever
[01:02:36] you get in STT was like the only other jumps I had other than jump school so I never did
[01:02:41] static line again right I just and unless it's in the water right for duck or something
[01:02:45] um yeah so we we uh we got our our work up gut I think work ups are like a year and a
[01:02:54] half then right yeah and they get we get shut down to buddy here got compressed and then
[01:03:00] we didn't end up going to go for anyways because I think maybe it was like half over like you
[01:03:06] know how limited that whole thing was and so then we deployed to the PI and then a mountain
[01:03:10] penitubo blue when we're out there and that that was a very interesting what you guys
[01:03:16] do on that just like provide as much security yeah yeah so we so we were so a lot of people
[01:03:24] know this but like when that mount when mountain penitubo blue probably because it blew there
[01:03:30] was a typhoon at the same time and so you know Clark airbase the Air Force base which
[01:03:37] was 45 minute drive or something way they had boulders the size of this room coming
[01:03:43] down from miles high in the sky just like landing on buildings and cars and whatever
[01:03:49] and uh that place was demolished and but we just got all this ash we got some rocks but
[01:03:54] like we get all this ash and the ash had a ton of metal ore in it and it was mixed in
[01:03:59] with the typhoon so you have like 70 80 mile an hour winds with rain and then this ash
[01:04:05] with all this metal in it and it was and it was sticking it sticks to everything and it
[01:04:10] looks like kind of grayish snow but it's super heavy and it collapses there it's like all
[01:04:14] the buildings are collapsing like our our our pbs and our and our peers are floating peers
[01:04:20] were sinking and all our buildings are collapsing so they're like there's like the first night
[01:04:25] of this thing and they're like hey we all need to go down to the unit and like save all
[01:04:30] the so we go and we you know we we we don't even have shovels we have bode ores right
[01:04:35] and uh and we're just and like a boat ore of this stuff probably weighed 30 pounds
[01:04:40] like it was just super compact and so we go and shovel all that off and then we're going
[01:04:45] up on the roofs and we're trying to save you know the buildings we got up on the periloft
[01:04:51] and uh there's no light right you can't see anything we're wearing flight suits with
[01:04:55] scuba mask and you could shine a flashlight and you could about see your feet pre head
[01:05:00] lamp right it's so crazy no one had thought of head lamps yeah and so I get up to the
[01:05:05] top of the periloft and these guys are going hey over here over here over here and sound
[01:05:09] like I'm walking their way and all of a sudden I stop and I'm like I feel like I'm I feel
[01:05:15] like I'm going the wrong I'm trying to remember what the building was like I was like I feel
[01:05:19] like I'm going the wrong way and I pull out a flashlight and I look at my feet and one
[01:05:23] of my feet it's like one of my toes are hanging over the edge like one more step I was gonna
[01:05:27] fall 60 feet and so anyway we're shoving all this off and then we go into like one of
[01:05:32] the big barn kind of things and we're shelling off and like buildings are collapsing while
[01:05:38] we're on them and we're like jumping off whatever and so then we all kind of show up in this
[01:05:44] and this barn has like the big I beams supporting the roof right and we're in there and somebody's
[01:05:51] like I think maybe we should get out of here what if this one collapses and I look up and
[01:05:54] I'm like there's no way this is gonna and we're like we all dive out like the doors
[01:06:00] you know it's like this wide the doors open this wide like 20 guys get through that thing
[01:06:05] in like five seconds you know and the whole thing collapses and so so there was no power
[01:06:09] for like six weeks there's no water there is no anything and there were bodies laying
[01:06:15] in the ditches all over the place of course in town they have like generators going and
[01:06:19] everything's going like two days later they're like up and running nothing ever happened
[01:06:24] and then we had like the they call them the NPA like the the Vietnam Equivalent or the
[01:06:31] Philippine equivalent of the Vietnamese Communist I guess and they start trying to infiltrate
[01:06:38] the base and like get equipment and all this stuff and we were closing the base because
[01:06:45] there was so much damage and the negotiations had failed I think we offered them like ten
[01:06:49] million dollars and they went like a hundred million dollars and I'm sorry we're out of
[01:06:52] here so we're gonna close the base anyway and so they started trying to come on the
[01:06:55] base and so we were like patrolling against them and like you know arresting some of those
[01:07:00] guys and stuff and I was like they're kind of like the closest thing to combat that we
[01:07:05] saw you know and we had like drug interdiction with the FBI and stuff and I was like the
[01:07:12] most exciting thing I did which is kind of one of the reasons I got out is like you know
[01:07:17] it's just like the same training trips over and over again doing the same stuff over and
[01:07:20] over again it's like I don't think we're ever gonna go to war again like I'm gonna
[01:07:24] go do something else you know and then of course while I'm in medical school 9-11 happens
[01:07:28] so you did you did a couple more platoons of team five and like you said like you're
[01:07:32] it's the 90s and you're just going through work up it's always fun I mean yeah it's
[01:07:36] super fun yeah Hollywood seals what we call it you know it's like it was like it was super
[01:07:41] fun yeah and you're well for me I was always like thought the big mission was coming and
[01:07:46] so I was always just like hey you gotta be ready in my mind I was trying to be ready
[01:07:51] I wish I had your confidence about that I was like we had Bill Clinton in the White House
[01:07:54] I'm like we're never going to war kidding me so you do a couple more platoons and then
[01:08:00] you're like all right did you when you when you decided to get out did you know you wanted
[01:08:05] to become a doctor no so what was your plan when you got out well so I started dating
[01:08:12] this girl who became my first wife like after after my first platoon I dated her during
[01:08:21] my second work up and then I deployed and then I came back and I was supposed to do
[01:08:25] like nine months of shore duty you know like work in the department start school kind of
[01:08:30] transition out and then I got thrown in a platoon because somebody got hurt and so kind of deployed
[01:08:36] actually until supposed to be until the day I got out but it ended up being like four or
[01:08:39] five days after I got I was actually technically out and I came back anyway so I she was in
[01:08:48] physical therapy school so wait so you're dating each other you got married we're dating
[01:08:52] okay you're dating and she's figure out this way you're you date this you start dating
[01:08:56] this girl you figure you're gonna get gonna get out but you end up getting thrown into
[01:08:59] a platoon you do the deployment you come home you have no plan and you're out of the Navy
[01:09:04] boom right okay and she's going to physical therapy school yes so she by the time I came back
[01:09:10] for my second deployment she is like three months out of grad school and she was working
[01:09:14] at San Diego Children's Hospital and and I used to take her textbooks on deployment
[01:09:20] and read them because I like I was just interested in you know physiology and anatomy and like
[01:09:26] I anything to make me bigger and stronger and faster and whatever better and so I felt
[01:09:31] like I didn't interest in that but I didn't you know I'd never done well in school I was
[01:09:35] convinced that I was dumb really until I until I got in the name of like an A school I did
[01:09:39] really well like I top of my class and then like I'd really well academically and buds
[01:09:43] and so I thought well maybe I'm not stupid maybe I just like never really applied myself
[01:09:48] but we'll see right so you go like you know I have a GED so I can't get into any college
[01:09:53] I have to go to at least a year of junior college probably two and so I went there and
[01:09:59] like started setting the curve in every class that I thought maybe is gonna be like jadjee
[01:10:04] or something like an athletic trainer maybe a physical therapist if like things are really
[01:10:09] worked out great for me and to to apply to physical therapy school you have to like have
[01:10:14] 2000 volunteer hours right well that's that's a year full-time work right so part-time work
[01:10:20] that gets a couple of years and so I'm like well I get I'll start getting my volunteer
[01:10:23] hours and they hired me after I'd volunteered there for maybe a week and they're like we
[01:10:29] don't you can work for us and so then I worked as a physical therapy assistant at San Diego
[01:10:34] Sports Medicine Center the whole Thomas in college and that was like a healthcare mecca
[01:10:41] they had everything you know they had orthopedic surgeons they had sports medicine guys they
[01:10:46] had DOs they had MDs they had podiatrists they had massage therapists PT's athletic
[01:10:52] trainers so we had everything and I I got to know all of the people and got to see everybody's
[01:11:01] work and I'm standing in the hallway with a couple of doctors because they're about
[01:11:07] my age right because I because I'd you know been in the teams first so they're maybe two
[01:11:13] or three years older than me and I got to be friends with them and we're standing out
[01:11:18] on the hallway one day and and they're telling me you should go to medical school pump the
[01:11:26] brace there sparky like I didn't like I'm like I'm even close to medical school and
[01:11:32] so they're trying to convince me that I can get in a medical school and I'm like no frickin
[01:11:36] way I can get I'm getting in a medical school and then the the doctor that owned it Lee
[01:11:41] Ryce he's out here still and he said he steps out of the office and he goes Kirk I didn't
[01:11:47] even know he knew my name right it's a Kirk the question isn't whether you can get in
[01:11:52] question is would you go if you got in and I said of course he goes well then you kind
[01:11:57] of have to try don't you I was like shit trapped you yeah I was like right and then I ended
[01:12:03] up going to work for him when I got to the Navy like my first year in the Navy I went
[01:12:06] back to his practice he had a concierge practice in Point Loma out here and yeah but that that's
[01:12:13] how that came about man and I I mean I was fully planning to be an orthopedic surgeon
[01:12:19] because I'm like a mechanical dude and I like I like this succinctly broken not broken yeah
[01:12:24] hey this is broken and put some bolts and screws and then plates and it's not gonna be
[01:12:29] broken anymore and that's it and then I'm gonna go on and do it again I don't want to look
[01:12:33] at anybody's frickin anion gap or like care about what medications are online I doesn't
[01:12:38] interest me I want to go fix things and and then in and the Navy you have to do an operational
[01:12:47] tour before they let you finish residency so you do like your first year and then they
[01:12:52] you have to go to the fleet if you don't if you don't so wait sir do you already gotten
[01:12:56] commissioned or were you planning to go back in the Navy what was the whole story about
[01:12:59] yeah I totally skipped that part yeah so when so when I decided to apply for medical school
[01:13:04] pre-internet so I went to the bookstore and started looking through the Kaplan books to
[01:13:09] see like what schools would I be competitive for with my with my GPA and my MCAT and all
[01:13:13] that and that's when I found out that the Navy had his own school I was like no way
[01:13:18] are you kidding me and so I look into it's like they'll pay me to go to medical school
[01:13:24] instead of the other way around and of course I'm married and have a kid and have a kid
[01:13:28] on the way like well that makes a lot more sense right like I wasn't excited to go on
[01:13:34] the Navy trust me like I you know I was in the team that's a good fit for the team but
[01:13:38] I wasn't a good fit for the Navy I knew that and I was like all right well I'll do this
[01:13:44] right now and I knew that there was you know this eight year commitment afterwards and
[01:13:49] I was like well I'll go back to the teams for a while and I'll like give back to the
[01:13:52] community who saved me from prison or you know whatever I was gonna end up if I if I
[01:13:57] didn't have you know something to channel my anger with right and so I I did you know
[01:14:08] when you do your operational to she got commissioned in 2000 go to OIS Connecticut basically the
[01:14:15] knife and fork school knife and fork school they gave me some kind of award there I'm
[01:14:21] so ridiculous I don't I think I did like I participated in like 25% of that school like
[01:14:27] they couldn't make pants for me I have really big legs and kind of a normal waist and they
[01:14:31] kept making they're like trying to make khaki pants like from scratch like these girls and
[01:14:37] they were ridiculous I mean never and it was just like they kept trying all this stuff
[01:14:41] so I never had a uniform and I'd be like well I gotta go to the I gotta go to the uniform
[01:14:45] store again and that's all I did for like three weeks was like try to get a uniform
[01:14:49] to fit and then and so and then they give me some sort of award is comical and then
[01:14:57] go to medical school and then from there I did you know there was some hoopla I won't
[01:15:06] get into but ended up coming back to San Diego to do internship which is the first year residency
[01:15:14] essentially and then you have to go out to the fleet do that Balboa I did it Balboa yeah
[01:15:19] and the you do that and if and then after that year if you just say hey I just want
[01:15:27] to come back as soon as possible then they just send you out to some fleet job you're
[01:15:30] probably going to go 30 seconds to be on the ship or something right but if you go to
[01:15:37] flight school you can be a flight surgeon you go to dive school and and you know most
[01:15:41] school in Connecticut and then you can obviously go back to like our units or dive unit or
[01:15:45] something like that so I was like I'll do DMO and I'll go back to the teams for a while
[01:15:53] then I'll come back and finish residency and I went to dive school and then at the
[01:16:01] end of it there weren't there weren't any orders for the teams so they put me on at
[01:16:07] the submarine rescue unit out here on the end of point limo okay no not it's I'm sorry
[01:16:14] it's at the end of North Island now and that was like a policy job really because a lot
[01:16:21] of people don't realize this but like every country that has submarines like they all
[01:16:29] they all have this agreement that will will rescue each other submarines even our enemies
[01:16:33] like China Russia doesn't matter like your submarine goes down on our waters and it's
[01:16:37] saveable we'll use our system to save your guys because technically these systems can
[01:16:43] go anywhere in the world but with a realistic time when there's probably not in realistic
[01:16:48] to like fly it over there and set everything up so you're gonna be much better off of the
[01:16:53] country that you're closest to saves them and so then you have to make all these agreements
[01:16:57] like well who whose patients are they gonna be whose dive tables are we're gonna use we
[01:17:01] have to recompress them like what like what's gonna be our product and so that's all we
[01:17:05] did is travel around the world and meet endless meetings and come up with new policy and then
[01:17:12] then I had the opportunity to either go back to the hospital or go to the teams I was like
[01:17:20] I really feel like I should do that and so then I go back to the teams and that's right
[01:17:25] when they called it I think they were calling it they're still calling it the human performance
[01:17:29] program and then switch the tactical asset program and so I got there right when they
[01:17:34] were funding the build out of that clinic nice of course I was a perfect fit for that
[01:17:39] some freaking PT clinics like duh like I did this for I did this all through college
[01:17:44] like I know what I'm doing so and then like and there's a great time like I got to be
[01:17:47] there when we hired everybody like when we hired the first you know the first athletic
[01:17:52] trainer the first PT the first nutritionist the first strength and conditioning coach
[01:17:55] like which is crazy to think about everything that you're just saying is the first the first
[01:17:59] the first the first yeah in 2009 have any of this stuff yeah like it was just like your
[01:18:03] PT was whatever your CO or whatever your exo was into so your exo like to run and swim
[01:18:09] guess what you were doing for PT like run swim swim run run if you got injured it was
[01:18:14] like yeah like you dealt with it like figured out whatever your corpsmen could do for you
[01:18:19] because you weren't going to drive across the bridge and go to rehab at Pete freaking
[01:18:24] Balboa yeah and even if you do that what are they rehabbing a sailor at Balboa for rehabbing
[01:18:30] him to like get out of the Navy right the medical retirement right that's what they're
[01:18:35] rehabbing him for in the teams that guys want to go back to work right like I'm hurt you
[01:18:39] make me better now right yeah I've got to go to Nile in two weeks make me better right
[01:18:43] now right and that's the other thing you're traveling so much like how much rehab do you
[01:18:47] really have unless you're going to get pulled out of your platoon but you might as well
[01:18:50] die before you do that like just let your arm fall off like maybe you'll still be able
[01:18:54] to make it yeah that that happened with stump so stump came over and saw me when he's getting
[01:18:59] out uh-huh and he's like I didn't know him I knew who I knew who he was and and he he
[01:19:07] comes over and he's like hey you know I'm getting out like two days and everybody keeps
[01:19:11] telling me you should look at my record so here it is so he gives me some records like
[01:19:16] paper thin and I open it and his and his discharge physical was like good to go everything's
[01:19:22] good I'm sitting there I'm like didn't you get shot he's like yeah like you know now
[01:19:28] that's in here he's like does that matter I'm like yeah that matters like I said regards
[01:19:36] of how you feel now if you start having some serious problems and you need surgery revision
[01:19:41] like big care like that's you know what what if you know what what if and so he's he's
[01:19:49] like oh okay and so then I check into it I'm like you're gonna have to stand and not he
[01:19:54] was pissed man oh sure he ended up ended up I did I just saw him recently and I was like
[01:20:00] she's still pissed with me about that he's like no best thing ever how much longer how
[01:20:03] much longer do you think he ended up in like in another year damn because he had to go
[01:20:07] through a med board oh for sure yeah but I mean there was nothing in there he's nothing
[01:20:12] in there it was literally just like signed off like good good good good like I said medical
[01:20:17] record like I said what I was what's your answer to the question it's like find you up how
[01:20:20] your shoulder's fine knee fine neck fine yep got surgery yep it's fine now yeah everything
[01:20:24] is just fine fine fine can I get out of here now yeah I want to leave yeah like like you're
[01:20:28] saying at the beginning no nobody wants to see the doctor but more to the point nobody
[01:20:33] trusts the doctor right because that's the guy who can put you on the bench what's the
[01:20:37] worst thing you do to a team guy pulling out of his balloon I give you something that's
[01:20:41] disqualifying I say oh you have a problem you need meds you're disqualified you can't
[01:20:46] take any real medification in the teams and you know that that I mean interestingly because
[01:20:54] of that nuance that's that's why I ended up learning everything that I learned as a SEAL
[01:20:59] teams and doing what I do now I mean less than 1% of what I do now has anything to do
[01:21:05] with what I learned in medical school or residency or anything like it's all outside
[01:21:10] I was talking to a guy that was oh it was Jason I think it was Jason but you know he
[01:21:17] had come from where the baseball or football where did he come from?
[01:21:21] Oh yeah yeah yeah Jethro was baseball yeah and maybe it wasn't him I was talking to somebody
[01:21:27] that was football and he said something like he worked at Bud's Medical and at Bud's Medical
[01:21:36] he said he would see like whatever the number was 40 cases of patella femoral syndrome a
[01:21:44] week yeah and he said when he was with the NFL he saw like two cases right and it was
[01:21:50] like that for every injury like shin splints if you're at Bud's Medical you see 50 cases
[01:21:55] a week of shin splints and you just go down the list of shoulder injury and so the teams
[01:22:00] the same way like oh shoulder injury knee injury like you're just gonna see so many of it you
[01:22:05] get so good at it right that it's like an environment where you're just gonna learn
[01:22:11] so much so so you were in this critical role as this thing kind of stood up where the the
[01:22:18] teams started taking the health of the seal more like as serious as we could possibly
[01:22:25] take yeah and do proactive stuff too right so what did you what does being in the teams
[01:22:32] do to a dude well so this is how it all got started right we built that facility we hired
[01:22:41] all these great people like you said pull people from pro teams from Olympic training
[01:22:46] center really top notch top tiers colleges and so we have all these brilliant people
[01:22:52] who are great at their job now I'm the dumbest guy there right because like I'm just a guy
[01:22:57] who looked worked in the sports medicine center in college and like I don't really know any
[01:23:03] of this stuff so what does the Navy do when you're the dumbest guy put you in charge right
[01:23:07] so like well now you're gonna supervise all these people and so like I now have the supervisory
[01:23:11] position and in the rehab facility and so as you know like my office was in between those
[01:23:17] two sides of it and so guys be over there doing rehab and you know I had been a seal
[01:23:23] recently enough to where there's still a ton of guys in there that I went through training
[01:23:26] with and that I deployed with and so I had a good enough reputation the guys trusted
[01:23:32] me and they come and shut the door like hey I'm tell you what's really going on with me
[01:23:36] right because like you said fine fine fine like fine fine fine everything should it's
[01:23:41] like you know the put rigorous tape over a bullet hole that they had to just really I
[01:23:45] don't want to get put on the bench trust this dude and so they came in I can't remember
[01:23:50] who the first guy was at this point but comes in it's like you know what's really going
[01:23:54] on with me and he's talking about we you know I can't remember anything right he comes in
[01:24:01] a room gets twice air leaves remember come back forget up it leaves his house five six
[01:24:06] times in the morning getting the scarf back up forgot my badge and going oh forget that's
[01:24:10] for it and and then they'd be saying when you know my motivation just sucks my concentration
[01:24:17] sucks like sitting me sitting meetings I can't I can't follow anything anybody saying like
[01:24:21] my attention span is like two seconds or I mean given the brief and I'm not interested
[01:24:25] in like you know but their team guys so they're still getting after it but they just don't
[01:24:29] feel like getting after it and they're like basically I'm getting colder weaker fatter
[01:24:34] you know like they're following the nutritionist advice they're following the strength and conditioning
[01:24:38] advice they're doing everything exactly how they should do it and they just they're getting
[01:24:41] weaker they're getting fatter and slower they're getting moody sex drives down sexual performance
[01:24:46] is down right and it's really all performance issues right so I'm not as fast I'm not as
[01:24:53] strong I'm not and then they'd be like you know but maybe I'm just getting old and I'm
[01:24:57] like yeah man you're 34 like it's over for you right you're screwed you might as good
[01:25:04] sex start your cigarette now man and so I honestly didn't have the slightest idea first
[01:25:12] guy comes in my office and tells me that's something I'm bewildered I don't know so
[01:25:17] I'm like I'm gonna do a bunch of labs and I mean it's first important to preface this
[01:25:24] with when I first got there the department had was actually a PA so a physician's assistant
[01:25:31] was supervising the physician and he'd been in Navy line where he's a former team guy
[01:25:37] and one of the first things he tells me in his office he's like hey these guys are gonna
[01:25:41] come to you and expect some special treatment I'm like yeah like we can't give it to him
[01:25:47] like why wouldn't I give it to him he's like you have to treat everybody the same like
[01:25:54] no it's in the name special forces like they get special treatment like we're we're here
[01:25:58] because of the team guys we're not here for tech support like those guys can go to the
[01:26:01] hospital right like if we have the capacity we'll see them but like I'm here to help the
[01:26:05] team guys he's like you can't think of it that way and I'm like we're not gonna get
[01:26:09] along then because that's what I'm gonna do like I'm here to help I'm here to help the
[01:26:12] community I'm gonna give a shit my my CO was a supply officer right a group one I'm gonna
[01:26:18] show you guys I'm gonna help my boys man I'm gonna do it so so everything I did was in
[01:26:27] that vein and I and it wasn't popular it wasn't popular with the seals is popular with the
[01:26:34] seals so they came in and they tell me this story about all this stuff and nothing they're
[01:26:40] saying and this is just like repeal go one guy a day one guy a week you know how it goes
[01:26:45] like word of mouth so like one and then one and one and then two and then four and and
[01:26:49] you know I'd say three months after the first guy came in and I'd probably seen a hundred
[01:26:56] guys right and they'll I mean I could have told them their story but I'd listen I take
[01:27:01] notes and listen let them tell it and they all told me the same thing they've since they
[01:27:06] done some research and they're now calling this operator syndrome I was calling it the
[01:27:11] seal syndrome and the syndrome basically means here's all the symptoms we don't know why and
[01:27:17] so it's a syndrome right and so I didn't I'm just like well I'll just test a bunch of labs
[01:27:24] and see like I don't know I was doing 98 blood markers so they're going to the hospital
[01:27:30] again like 17 vials of blood and then again everything that should be high was low everything
[01:27:37] should be low was high like their anabolic behavior super low catablog stuff really high
[01:27:43] their inflammation really high oxidation really high insulin sensitivity even nowhere
[01:27:50] near what you would expect it to be when I got this fit and this and shape and this eating
[01:27:54] this way and I have this last idea honestly I don't know I don't know and then I don't
[01:28:03] know maybe 50 or 60 guys into it somebody said to me he takes Ambien every night and
[01:28:12] I thought like I seem to say that yeah so I put a put a miss it I remember like one
[01:28:18] of the few days I was in khakis like somebody just remember she's super clear like way I
[01:28:23] sit in my desk and like remember putting this note the margin and then after he left I kept
[01:28:28] shadow files because none of the team guys wanted stuff in the record so I'm like I'm
[01:28:33] just keep a shadow file I give it to you when you leave you know or when I leave mean you
[01:28:38] do what you want to with it so I checked in my shadow files every single guy who'd been
[01:28:43] my office was an ambient 100% of them and I was like huh I wonder if that could be it
[01:28:49] now I took pharmacology in medical school so I knew how Ambien worked but I didn't know
[01:28:56] enough of like I knew it acts like GABA right GABA is a neuropeptide and like you heard
[01:29:03] GABA pentane you give it for nerve pain because it slows down their function essentially right
[01:29:07] okay and I'm like but I don't know enough about sleep to know why that's significant
[01:29:12] what GABA does in sleep I don't know I didn't have a single class on sleep in medical school
[01:29:18] and you know the way the pharmaceutical industry works you know when they apply for FDA approval
[01:29:28] they own the research and they give the FDA what they want to give them they don't give
[01:29:31] them what they don't want to give them but then if they ever get sued in court they have
[01:29:35] to pull up the skirt and show everything so that had happened with Ambien like right before
[01:29:40] this happened and so they were getting sued and so now we knew the real side effect profile
[01:29:47] and so I just had to learn a ton about non-traditional medicine had to learn a ton about sleep I thought
[01:29:54] maybe it was adrenal fatigue like I was trying which isn't even like a real thing but yeah
[01:30:00] that was kind of like the alternative medicine thing with all the adrenal fatigue it's like
[01:30:04] an HPA mismatch that there's some validity to it but it's really not like the way it's
[01:30:10] proposed but I was having some success doing that like but it wasn't huge and then but
[01:30:17] I'd noticed like everybody's testosterone was low everybody's growth hormone was low
[01:30:21] like low low right but in medicine like I'm a western trained medical physician right
[01:30:29] so I know how to recognize and treat disease what do I do if it's not disease right it's
[01:30:34] within the bell curve but it probably should be higher but there's no right so the chair
[01:30:42] at UCLA the chair of endocrinology at UCLA had done this research where he stratified
[01:30:47] the bell curve for testosterone and broke it into quintiles so 80% to 160 to 80 right
[01:30:55] and the top quintile you had the lowest risk of death for many cause lowest risk of any
[01:31:02] disease every quintile you go down it doubles so about time you're in the fifth quintile
[01:31:06] that's 16 times you're 16 times more likely to die of any cause you're 16 times more
[01:31:12] likely to have any disease every guy who came in to see me was in that quintile now if that
[01:31:17] were magnesium it would be medical malpractice to not give everybody magnesium and keep them
[01:31:22] in the upper quintile but because athletes use tear testosterone cheat and sports it's
[01:31:27] political so you don't give that right that's a no no so I wasn't about they weren't about
[01:31:32] to let me give guys testosterone but then I learned hey when you're sleeping that's when
[01:31:36] your testosterone is made that's when everything's rebalanced all your hormones the most anabolic
[01:31:40] time in your life is the first sleep cycle right you go through your first sleep cycle
[01:31:45] and most the most of that is deep sleep deep sleep has the lowest stress hormones the catabolic
[01:31:51] hormones that you'll ever have in 24 hours and and has the highest anabolic so most of
[01:31:58] your repair right obviously when you work out you don't get stronger you weaker you
[01:32:02] damage yourself when it repairs it comes back stronger well that's happening while you're
[01:32:08] sleeping so I thought so once I learned like what goes on when you go to sleep and what
[01:32:14] I had going for me was you know the teams had already done some great work and I had
[01:32:18] a great reputation because this is like 2009 right 2010 and so I could call up anybody
[01:32:24] be like hey I read your book or saw your Ted talk or heard your lecture and I'm the doctor
[01:32:31] for the West Coast sealed team so it's wonderful if I could train with you or consult with
[01:32:34] you own clients whatever everybody was like here to help right so I got to learn a lot
[01:32:39] really quickly and I start and I started trying to tell the leadership that I thought that
[01:32:46] a lot of our performance issues are chronic injuries and are you know just guys not feeling
[01:32:53] good not performing well not feeling motivated not being resilient I said I think a lot of
[01:33:00] this is from their hormones I have the proof that their hormones are they have the hormones
[01:33:05] of an 80 year old man and an 80 year old fat man actually and and I said I think it's
[01:33:13] sleep was that everybody was like that I remember you I remember you talking to me you're like
[01:33:18] I mean I was good and you know like you're like dude you're free you told me I had the
[01:33:22] test officer 17 year old football player I was like yes yes there there are some people
[01:33:28] who who just get through like for whatever reason they stay resilient you know but but
[01:33:34] but I obviously have a biased sample because people are coming to me because they have
[01:33:38] problems like everybody I see you were just getting me because I was retiring and like
[01:33:42] here I am right I got it so most of the guys were coming to you they feel like shit yeah
[01:33:46] and they're just coming to you like broke and you please help me right so then once I figured
[01:33:51] out the ambient thing I started digging into that which by the way I've never taken ambient
[01:33:56] yeah you're super unique yeah I had had the Corman pulled pull medical records and look
[01:34:04] and 85% of our command of the West 85% of the West Coast seal teams had a prescription
[01:34:10] for ambient yeah whether or not they were taking it I don't know but like my doc we're
[01:34:14] on deployment my doc's like hey hey we need to get my he was like see I even need to tell
[01:34:20] me but he was just telling me like hey we're out of ambient yeah like we're almost out
[01:34:23] of ambient I got to get more I'm going to whatever and I was kind of like didn't really
[01:34:27] think much of it because like I said I'd never I've never even tried it I don't even know
[01:34:30] what it feels like but guys were freaking on ambient like it was like it was yeah eat
[01:34:35] an M&M's man right and so what is it does it jack up your yes so they thought so the
[01:34:42] way they used to get people to sleep was with Benzo's like volume right and turns out if
[01:34:47] you overdose on those you quit breathing and you die and they're super hard to get off
[01:34:52] of right that's what happened to Jordan Peterson like super hard to get off of so they found
[01:34:58] these Z-drugs so GABA is this neuropeptide that basically slows neurons down right so
[01:35:05] when you're when you go to sleep one of the primary things that's happening asleep is
[01:35:10] your neocortex so the part of the brain that you think of as the human brain the wrinkly
[01:35:14] bit that's where like all your motor function is all your sensory and all your processing
[01:35:18] of that like your interpretation of the world that's how you interact with the world was
[01:35:23] that part right so that that slows down and you quit interacting with the world quit paying
[01:35:29] attention your senses still work obviously right because I can turn on the light and
[01:35:33] your eyes still sense the light you'll wake up right I can make a loud noise so you're
[01:35:37] all your senses are still working you're just not paying attention to them so GABA is the
[01:35:41] primary neuropeptide that's making that happen so pharmaceutical industry the way they work
[01:35:47] is like well if we figure out this one step of this process then we can supercharge that
[01:35:53] step right so now this is going to bind a GABA receptor but it's going to do a hundred
[01:35:58] times more than GABA does and that was benzos and then the Z-jugs like a thousand times
[01:36:06] what GABA does what's a Z I don't know I can't like another brand name or another form that's
[01:36:12] a category so that's like Ambien and Lunesta and there used to be a third one I can't remember
[01:36:16] and these are like a thousand times that's a thousand times the effect of GABA so what
[01:36:20] was happening is just dissociating people so so they would take this and basically
[01:36:28] they quit interpreting their senses but they could still be awake and so the reason they
[01:36:33] were getting sued is people were like driving down and doing a lizard brain stuff they're
[01:36:37] driving down picking up prostitutes they're driving down and eating you know oh god fifty
[01:36:43] hundred dollars worth of fast food they're going to Vegas and gambling their life savings
[01:36:48] away and mortgaging their house and and wake up the next day down here remember it you
[01:36:53] have no recollection of it whatsoever and so that's what they start that's what they're
[01:36:57] getting sued for is it somewhat addictive to Ambien it is for this reason so so yeah
[01:37:04] the first thing that happens obviously the blue light goes out of our eyes that chain
[01:37:08] that makes some changes in our brain and act and melatonin gets created everybody's heard
[01:37:14] of that this and it's a hormone in your brain and that's like the initiation of everything
[01:37:20] right that's the as Matt Walker calls it the starter pistol which I think is a great metaphor
[01:37:24] so that initiates everything and then one of the primary things that happen is GABA
[01:37:29] comes in and slows down the brain you quit paying attention to your environment your
[01:37:32] body temperature goes down and like that's what makes you feel sleepy so if your your
[01:37:39] body is a really smart machine right it's efficient it's not going to do anything it
[01:37:43] doesn't need to do that's why if I give you testosterone you quit making testosterone
[01:37:47] why the hell are you going to spend energy making it you're getting it for free so if
[01:37:52] I give you GABA and it's having a thousand times the effect of GABA or I'm sorry if
[01:37:59] I give you a Z-Drag it's having a thousand times the effect of GABA all the receptors
[01:38:04] for GABA we only need one one thousandth of them because you have all you have all of
[01:38:09] this freaking GABA everywhere it's like you don't need all these receptors you know so
[01:38:16] what happens is you down regulate receptors and now you quit taking that your GABA deficient
[01:38:22] no matter how much GABA you have in your brain because you need a thousand times what you
[01:38:25] would ordinarily have just to be normal now because you have so few receptors and then
[01:38:29] the receptors take six to eight weeks to come back nobody can wait six to eight weeks to
[01:38:33] start sleeping again right so they get they're really hard to get off of too sure that's
[01:38:38] why the ambient becomes addictive yeah so people can't quit it because it's just making
[01:38:43] them normal it's the same thing when people take you know 50 milligrams or even 10 milligrams
[01:38:47] of melatonin it's like your brain only makes about six micrograms from the time the sun
[01:38:52] goes down until you wake up you're taking 10 milligrams all at once way more than you're
[01:38:58] and you're going to down regulate receptors and now when you quit taking melatonin your
[01:39:02] melatonin deficient because you don't have enough receptors how long does it take to
[01:39:05] get back to where you're producing melatonin again well you're still producing it it's
[01:39:09] just like you're producing a normal amount with maybe a tenth or one hundredth of the
[01:39:13] receptors so you're deficient because you need both it doesn't matter how much do you
[01:39:18] get them back eventually receptors yeah it takes like six to eight weeks that is you
[01:39:22] know SSRIs are very similar like they're working on serotonin reuptake and they're working
[01:39:27] on receptors and takes like six to eight weeks to really start working and takes six to eight
[01:39:31] weeks to recover from and guys that do testosterone you do you ever start making that again if
[01:39:39] you go on if you're on testosterone it depends on how long you're on and what you do while
[01:39:43] you're on it right so there are things that you can do to maintain testicular volume and
[01:39:48] function most doc in the box guys don't do this you know they're just like here's what
[01:39:56] does testosterone and then and most of the most of the guys that I end up seeing yeah
[01:40:02] they're they're being seen by some guy who's given them like two or three hundred milligrams
[01:40:06] once a week or once every two weeks so it's getting like this huge surge they're going
[01:40:10] super physiologic for a few days turn into a caveman for like two days and then they
[01:40:16] down regulate their receptors and that testosterone gets converted into estrogen and estrogen
[01:40:20] is the signal in your brain to tell your brain how much testosterone you have so if your
[01:40:24] estrogen is high your brain assumes that from testosterone so now you quit producing as
[01:40:30] much testosterone and so they get this peak now they down regulate their receptors right
[01:40:36] and they down regulate their own production and so after a few months of that once all
[01:40:40] the receptors have changed and all the physiologies change now they're super physiologic for
[01:40:45] maybe a day or two and they're normal for a day or two and now they're low the whole
[01:40:50] rest of the time some guys that's two weeks and so they'll always come in and be like
[01:40:54] hey I started this and I felt great and now I feel just like I did before I started and
[01:40:59] I'll say how much are you taking how often are they are they looking at your DHT are
[01:41:06] they looking at your estrogen are they looking at your sex hormone binding globulin are they
[01:41:09] looking like are they looking at anything other than your testosterone are they even
[01:41:11] looking at your free testosterone because total testosterone really doesn't matter how much
[01:41:15] of it is available and so like this is true with every hormone anything anything any hormone
[01:41:24] I give you you're going to quit making it now there are things that I can there's things
[01:41:30] I can give you that will cause you to keep making testosterone while you're taking testosterone
[01:41:34] it's not perfect but those guys that can come off of testosterone probably be okay there's
[01:41:40] they're still going to be bad off right because they they weren't able to make enough when
[01:41:46] I met them so now they're going to be a little worse than that when they got off and so like
[01:41:50] what I was doing with the team guys is I was first doing it with like all supplements first
[01:41:55] I was getting guys to sleep and getting them off of the ambient right and that's that just
[01:41:59] came from me and I couldn't just say quit taking your ambient because our you know our
[01:42:03] community one is good two is better and three is probably great so they're taking like three
[01:42:07] ambient with we're taking seven they're taking three ambient with like a couple of cocktails
[01:42:13] and then they're waking up at 430 not intentionally you know they're waking up at 430 and they're
[01:42:19] like can't go back to sleep so I'm going to go in the gym I'm going to work out really
[01:42:22] hard today I'm not going to take any breaks from work all day when I come home tonight
[01:42:25] I'm going to be tired and I'll go to sleep like all right how long have you been doing
[01:42:27] that like three years keep going tonight tonight I think right like obviously not that's not
[01:42:33] that obviously is not working right and so like once I learned how ambient destroys REM
[01:42:41] sleep like 80% of REM sleep goes away and it knocks out about 20% of deep sleep alcohol
[01:42:48] to exactly the opposite so destroys deep sleep gets rid of about 20 so when I sent these guys
[01:42:55] in for sleep studies 99.9% stage two sleep so they weren't getting any deep sleep any
[01:43:01] REM sleep do they wake up in the morning feel like shit yeah how do they even I don't even
[01:43:05] know how they survived it honestly like and that's one of the things about medicine proves
[01:43:10] to you how little we know because that should kill them should kill them in a couple of
[01:43:14] weeks because that's the same as getting no sleep you would think but this is what you
[01:43:19] know the ambient lawsuits kind of were fortunately out to where I could learn all that and so
[01:43:24] I couldn't just take away their ambient and alcohol and say suck it up buttercup right
[01:43:28] like I had to give them something so I did some research and came up with a bunch of
[01:43:31] things and they were having to go to all those pre-amazons they're having to drive around
[01:43:36] to three different stores and get all the ingredients and try to travel with it and it was a pain
[01:43:40] and so now they really have rang me into making a product out of it to make it easier for
[01:43:46] them so I you know I figured out the sleep was a huge component and that that was causing
[01:43:56] me to get a lot of their low testosterone and then there's things I can give you like
[01:44:00] the precursors to testosterone like DHEA and you can do a form of DHEA 7 keto DHEA that
[01:44:05] can't be converted into estrogen so that's good right I can give you zinc citrate which
[01:44:11] will decrease the amount of estrogen you make from a testosterone and then like some guys
[01:44:19] I was giving a pharmaceutical called a remodax and that blocks estrogen conversion to it's
[01:44:24] called a roma tase inhibitor and so just with like DHEA pregnant alone which is another
[01:44:34] precursor to the testosterone pathway and some zinc or a remodax and getting guys to
[01:44:40] sleep guys are tripling quadrupling their testosterone levels over six months 46 months
[01:44:48] right yeah I one of the CEOs out there he got like in the couple of years I was treating
[01:44:57] him you know like three PRs like like weight lifting and running and like say something
[01:45:02] else and like in his 40s like this is the best he's ever been in his life because he's you
[01:45:08] know he's been broken down we and like our community has some of that just because of
[01:45:14] the chaotic sleep anyway right just because well tonight you're working and then tomorrow
[01:45:19] you're working too and then you know and now we're going to travel and we're going to
[01:45:22] go over here we're going to do this and like and so every like you sleep when you can obviously
[01:45:26] right and so it's chaotic and if you aren't aligned with your circadian rhythm sleep is
[01:45:30] nowhere near as valuable and so I got I got guys sleeping they had huge performance gains
[01:45:38] there are a few older guys that I couldn't get them to make enough testosterone to be
[01:45:44] in the number one so I think when they they they like shut me down and have me under investigation
[01:45:52] for a while and like I mean I essentially sacrificed my career for like there was no
[01:45:59] way I was getting any kind of Navy residency or anything because I was just in trouble
[01:46:03] all the time with Bumad or the hospital or Warcom whatever like everybody's then even
[01:46:09] like my name out about that I was practicing outside of my scope that I was like I was
[01:46:18] giving people was called Myers cocktails when I thought that it was adrenal fatigue IV vitamins
[01:46:25] apparently I'm not allowed to do that as a doctor and I got in a lot of trouble for
[01:46:29] that the aromatics ignorant doctors will say to cancer drug why you in somebody cancer
[01:46:37] drug it's not a cancer drug you moron I mean you give it to women with breast cancer because
[01:46:42] their breast cancer is estrogen sensitive and you want them to make less estrogen that's
[01:46:46] nothing you do with cancer like you just don't want them to have estrogen it's an estrogen
[01:46:51] blocker that's all it is so yeah I just like everything I did you know and all it takes
[01:46:59] because I was a junior doctor right like all it takes is for somebody senior to me anywhere
[01:47:03] in the medical chain be like he's doing what why is he doing that like no we can't allow
[01:47:07] that and so then they call Warcom and complain that this rogue doctor is doing all this crazy
[01:47:14] voodoo stuff that's what it's called like voodoo and when even when I when I told the leadership
[01:47:20] Andrew or was crown guard with Alex Alex Cron guard he was the Commodore at the time
[01:47:31] and he was super receptive leave he's smart educated on all the stuff but everybody else
[01:47:37] like literally laughs me out of their office going you gotta be kidding me their testosterone
[01:47:44] low because they aren't sleeping right doc like you got some problems and but then started
[01:47:50] getting results and people started performing better and word of mouth spread and then they
[01:47:55] started having me lecture at the pre and post retreats and then I you know that's when I
[01:48:00] like was sharing the stage with like Rob Wolfe and well-born and Cressor and like all those
[01:48:07] guys and then they started inviting me on podcast and invited me to other symposiums
[01:48:11] and stuff and like that's kind of where my career went because of what I was doing with
[01:48:16] our with our guys so what what year did you end up getting out of the Navy January 13
[01:48:21] so you retired from the Navy of January 13 I didn't retire but I got 19 years you see
[01:48:27] this yeah yeah well well so but medical school is like the Academy so it only counts retro
[01:48:37] so you have to do 24 years to retire so I would have to stand five more years okay and
[01:48:42] there was there was nowhere for me to go I mean let's get it up in Antarctica or something
[01:48:47] yeah yeah I'd burn I'd burned a lot of bridges to do what I did yeah so then what'd you do
[01:48:52] when you punched out so you kind of had a win worked at the concierge practice and in
[01:48:57] point Loma with the doctor who talked me into becoming a doctor and then he wanted me to
[01:49:02] see him in that practice and take it over and it was exactly what I thought I wanted
[01:49:08] you know and I was already doing some private consulting people heard me on podcast and
[01:49:12] be like hey I want to work with you so it's sort of telemedicine like zoom stuff Skype
[01:49:17] in those days I guess and so I was doing some of that and then but of course when I left
[01:49:24] I created like this vacuum because the next guy who came to the teams was just like a doctor
[01:49:29] like regular doctor is just waiting biting his time you try and do like a turnover of
[01:49:33] what you had learned with him yeah but but he was like I want to I want to stay in the
[01:49:39] Navy yeah after seeing what happened to me there wasn't anybody who's going to be interested
[01:49:42] in doing what I done has the world caught up with these protocols yeah yeah like I'd
[01:49:47] say maybe four or five years after I got out like so come hired me to come and lecture
[01:49:53] there and like lecture all their medical staff and like damn neck hired me to come in do lecture
[01:49:57] and teach all their medical staff and I consult on all those guys on a fairly regular basis
[01:50:04] is the H. Liddell Hart who wrote the book called he wrote a bunch of countless books
[01:50:09] but you know he's a he's a world war one guy fought at the song he wrote the book that
[01:50:16] I love called the indirect approach but one of the things he says in that book is the
[01:50:20] first person with an idea if they stick with that idea and they hold on to it guess what
[01:50:26] they become a martyr so you look out through throughout history like you have an idea and
[01:50:32] you you're like hey this is the way it should be you end up a martyr and that's kind of
[01:50:36] like what happened to you because it takes a while for ideas to get accepted he he rolls
[01:50:40] out this one example of with the major changes that have been made to warships over the past
[01:50:46] whatever it is 200 years every major change that came like no one accepted it until like
[01:50:53] somebody got martyred and then you know like going from whatever from sale to like steam
[01:51:01] right this first guy's like are you an idiot what are you gonna do when you're out at sea
[01:51:04] and there's no coal you're an idiot like we can sail forever and sure enough these guys
[01:51:09] get fired and then the next guy says you know we should make the holes out of out of metal
[01:51:13] and set a wood were you an idiot how are you gonna repair those they're heavier than
[01:51:17] more all those things and that's what happens so if you're the if you're the first person
[01:51:22] to roll out if you're not careful now you can be careful you can get it done in a more this
[01:51:27] is what he talks about yeah a more indirect manner so if you had said all right I'm gonna
[01:51:31] be like super strategic and I'm gonna run this up the chain it would have taken longer
[01:51:34] you had to you had to tell a bunch of guys I can't do anything for you now you know it
[01:51:38] would have taken you seven years or whatever right so I'm not saying it would have been
[01:51:41] it just a that indirect approach is how is the only way to well not the only way but
[01:51:46] it's probably the only way to avoid becoming a martyr but for you you're sitting there
[01:51:50] looking at people that are hurting and you're like all right I'm gonna help you guys need
[01:51:53] help right now like it's totally totally worth it like I was fully aware of what I was doing
[01:51:58] I'm not I'm not whining about it like I knew what I was doing at the time I had a quote
[01:52:03] taped in my monitor from Buckminster Fuller said it said never fight the system create
[01:52:12] a superior system to make the old one obsolete so it's like I'm just gonna do the right thing
[01:52:18] because like I learned all this stuff from other people right it's not like I invented
[01:52:23] right what I was doing I mean I had a few novel ideas but for the most part like I learned
[01:52:28] all this from other people so this was going on in the world it wasn't going on in our
[01:52:32] world and now it's in our world like you know but I left this back and when I left and so
[01:52:38] all these guys kept coming to me like when they got when they got out especially and
[01:52:43] I don't know if you do you know anything about the honor the honor foundation yeah yeah
[01:52:49] I mean I definitely know about it yeah for sure so Joe Musselman was spoken there a couple
[01:52:54] times yeah so Joe Musselman was the guy who found out he's a guy didn't make three buds
[01:53:00] and he wanted to do this educational component of it and I'd seen enough team guys like these
[01:53:06] guys need a medical rehab that year too right so like educate them for a year but like let's
[01:53:10] get them in medical shape first so that they can actually learn so they can remember they
[01:53:14] can sleep they can right and so they're not emotional wrecks and you know racked with
[01:53:18] anxiety and all those and all this other stuff and so we pitched that's how I got back and
[01:53:25] involved with Dr. Rice a guy who talked to me in medical school is he had this great
[01:53:31] clinic and Point Loma is huge and he had very few patients and so he had the clinical space
[01:53:37] and we're like so we pitched him like hey man could we run like this pilot program through
[01:53:42] here and we were trying to raise money for that and the money just wasn't there for the
[01:53:46] medical because it's too expensive but we did like I think we did like 10 families like
[01:53:52] team team guys family or something proof of concept and so and then I would and then I
[01:53:59] ended up working at the clinic instead of just doing my plan was to do that like to build
[01:54:03] that because all that everybody was calling me anyways all the team guys are calling me
[01:54:07] anyway and they're still to this day like I'm always managing 50 guys and you're one they
[01:54:16] trust me to I know our community better than anybody and I know what they need I know what
[01:54:21] their problems are before they even know their problems are and so I was like that's kind
[01:54:29] of been my philanthropic work it's just like I just kept you do that for civilians.
[01:54:33] As well I do it for civilians and they pay me they pay me a lot so that I don't have
[01:54:39] to charge the team guys and up until just recently like I'm on a bunch of different advisory
[01:54:44] boards for the nonprofits who are trying to help our guys out and so I've never charged
[01:54:51] any of the team guys for my time but they have to pay for their meds because they're
[01:54:57] not you know it's not coming through trichar and so now a lot of these foundations are
[01:55:02] paying for their meds and so in the last couple of years like it's it's gotten a lot better
[01:55:07] you know and there there's even I haven't seen any but I there's other doctors that
[01:55:12] are doing this work with these foundations and they're they're treating some active duty
[01:55:16] guys too so and then you ended up making your your sleep supplement too yeah so actually
[01:55:22] when I was when I was at the I was at the clinic I was at the concierge clinic is life
[01:55:31] wellness by the way give him a shout out maybe like wellness in point loma still still active
[01:55:36] still there yeah life wellness institute of things called and you know so I worked there
[01:55:42] for a year and I mean I just I just had so much there's so much demand for my time and
[01:55:49] like there's no way I could do what I needed to do the team still hadn't caught up they
[01:55:55] still aren't doing anything about sleep and so the guys were just kind of haranguing me
[01:56:01] into like to just make a product like how hard is this to do I'm like all right like
[01:56:05] I'll so I'm like I'm gonna step away from the clinic for a year I'm gonna start the sleep
[01:56:09] supplement I'll just live off of my consulting and I think I was doing an hourly rate back
[01:56:14] then I do like annual programs now but I said I'll just live off of my consulting I'll
[01:56:20] start this thing up and I'm good go back and so your consulting is this medical consulting
[01:56:25] for individual humans is that what yeah okay so I mean I do like I do some organizational
[01:56:30] stuff like they'll like whatever law enforcement or professional sports team wherever they'll
[01:56:35] hire me to lecture and kind of help them design a program you're talking about like hey I
[01:56:41] want you to help me feel better yeah and so here's my money yeah so now I have now I now
[01:56:46] I do annual programs people can only do a year like I won't I don't do multiple years
[01:56:51] like I'm gonna teach you everything you need to know in a year you have to have another
[01:56:54] doctor because I'm not I'm not your primary care or whatever yeah you gotta you gotta cold
[01:57:00] you ever broken leg like that's not me so I and what I do is performance like I didn't
[01:57:04] break I didn't call it that at the teams but if you think about that's exactly what it's
[01:57:07] doing is performance right none these guys had a disease they just weren't performing
[01:57:12] like they felt like they should perform and so so that that's what I do now and so it's
[01:57:18] mainly like you know big executives or entrepreneurs traded their health for wealth for 20 or 30
[01:57:25] years and now they had like a big exit whatever like you know they sold their company they
[01:57:30] have a hundred million dollars don't care about money they want to buy that health they want
[01:57:33] to be division one athletes again I'm like pump the brakes Sparky like maybe we can get
[01:57:40] you we can drop 40 pounds of fat off you in the year and get you back into being able
[01:57:45] to be physical and you know yeah so so yeah I I I charge those guys a lot of money one
[01:57:52] to make sure that they're motivated and to just a pace for me to treat him guys and then
[01:57:58] like right before I'd say like a year before I got out I was at a conference where a guy
[01:58:05] was lecturing on TBI and I had at least one guy I knew that had TBI because that's this
[01:58:11] is what we thought about TBI's in this time so you know if somebody hadn't been knocked
[01:58:16] unconscious then you didn't think they had a TBI so then I went to this guy's lecture
[01:58:21] and he was working with Pugelist and and some NFL guys he starts throwing up his case
[01:58:28] reports and like looking at their blood markers like exactly like my guys you're kidding me
[01:58:37] so then I start doing my own research and in 2009 there was a JAMA article written and
[01:58:42] it was done between Cambridge and Harvard thousands of people and they they have this
[01:58:50] imaging called DTI's and it's like it's so it's so the resolution so clear they can see
[01:58:58] a single neuronal track breaking pain and they call that a minor TBI so they're like
[01:59:04] what's the threshold it turns out is a 1.09 G's they got that from the 1.09 G's can cause
[01:59:13] a minor TBI minor TBI they were getting that from the acceleration changes on a roller
[01:59:16] coaster and I'm like I wonder how much our stuff is so I started investigating like you
[01:59:22] know and this stuff we've tested like we haven't tested everything obviously but you know that
[01:59:28] they're like the fat like damn next fast but they average 60 G's for hours they peak
[01:59:35] over 100 G's so they're just like head injury head injury head injury like every freaking
[01:59:41] wave right and then I started learning about over pressurization TBI right it's going to
[01:59:49] be great and so I don't know what the threshold is for that but it's something close to that
[01:59:55] one point around G's right well if you're if you're in a concrete room with three and
[02:00:03] four is like every round that comes out as 30 G's if you're shooting a called Gustav
[02:00:10] the shooter gets 200 G's the spotter gets like 300 G's you know the you know hard
[02:00:20] parachute openings or two to three G's being in the back of a Humby with a 50 cal going
[02:00:27] to like 60 G's every every round you know so I'm like well I don't have a guy who doesn't
[02:00:32] have thousands of TBI's and this has now been proven and if you know Larkin Frank Larkin
[02:00:39] and his son yeah suicide it and he had his brain analyzed and so when you look at if
[02:00:46] you look at fighters and look at NFL's NFL guys they have the CT right you heard that
[02:00:53] and it's like specific regions of the brain that's shows some specific abnormalities what
[02:00:58] happens in the and the over pressurization is like that pressure wave goes through your
[02:01:03] skull right it goes right through your skull and then they have it on photography now like
[02:01:09] I guess it's what a lot of frames per second or so 60 frames per second or something I
[02:01:16] can slow that down and get really resolute with it so as the as the wave comes by it's
[02:01:23] just like any other way if it's moving it's having impact on the material that's going
[02:01:27] through well the different densities move at different rates so the lining of your brain
[02:01:33] the dura that moves at a different rate than the vasculature and that means that a different
[02:01:37] rate than the white matter and that moves at a different rate than the gray matter and
[02:01:41] that moves at a different rate than the little vesicles that hold the cerebral spinal fluid
[02:01:46] so let's put it in a blender you just hear everything and we have and when you do autopsy
[02:01:52] is on our guys he's so excited their entire brain is covered with these talphur genes like
[02:01:57] these markers for damage at every interface so where where the vasculature meets the brain
[02:02:03] where the dura meets the brain where the white matter meets the gray matter with gray matter
[02:02:06] reach meets the cerebral spinal fluid the entire brain and we don't know what to do
[02:02:12] about that now there's peptides out that we know help that's going to be the next that's
[02:02:18] the next frontier of medicine I believe that's where I'm spending a lot of my time with our
[02:02:23] guys now hyperbaric helps for sure hormones obviously help so you know that that's you
[02:02:33] know that that's what that's what our guys need but this needs to be done proactively
[02:02:37] because you think about it like over time the equipment just keeps getting more and more
[02:02:42] dynamic the people inside the equipment are the same right we're the fragile bit now and
[02:02:50] there's got to be like it's different for different people you always bring up George
[02:02:53] Forman and Muhammad Ali like George Forman right now he's up there you know totally good
[02:02:57] to go right and I've known a lot of fighters and some fighters are just like they're fine
[02:03:03] right and some guys are not clearly and it's the same thing with football like you meet
[02:03:07] guys that played football their whole life and then they went out and they're doing totally
[02:03:10] normal things and other guys get totally messed up from football so there's got to be some
[02:03:14] genetic component to it as well right yeah there's there's genetic variation to everything
[02:03:18] right so and I don't know why anybody surprised by this right it's like you know we'd like
[02:03:26] to say that all men are created equal it's not true this is like every people aren't
[02:03:31] equal and some people have aptitudes that other people don't have you know it's like
[02:03:35] this this this misnomer of the super sleeper right if you have this gene combination then
[02:03:41] you don't need as much sleep it's not true you know what's true is that you don't suffer
[02:03:46] as much as most people when you don't sleep right when you short when you short sleep
[02:03:51] you don't have the same problems as the average Joe now there's somebody on the other side
[02:03:55] of the spectrum too that you take a few hours of sleep away and they're completely incapacitated
[02:04:00] these are people who don't make it through hell week these are people don't make it
[02:04:03] into our community I've always well you know people always talk about my sleep and I the
[02:04:08] genetic component I talk about because like my oldest daughter I would be going to bed
[02:04:14] at 11 o'clock at night when she was in high school and she'd be up studying yeah and I'd
[02:04:17] wake up at 430 in the morning and she'd be up studying and and so she was just kind of
[02:04:22] like me right she didn't need a ton of sleep my wife like this girl's going to bed yeah
[02:04:28] I mean she's going to bed and like she'll be up later right right my my middle daughter
[02:04:36] if there's not an emergency going on she's in she's she's gonna get out of bed when
[02:04:40] she feels like it like yeah there's not major emergency going on my son's kind of like
[02:04:46] he can be he can deal without sleep pretty well and then my youngest daughter just like
[02:04:51] my wife so it seems to me like and you know we all live in the same house right there's
[02:04:56] like half of us get up early and are going to do something the other half are still in
[02:05:00] bed and that's the way it is every day and it's not because I treated them any differently
[02:05:05] yeah I wanted them all to get up early and some of them just it's not part of their gig
[02:05:08] right it's not part of my wife's gig either people people say to me like how do you get
[02:05:13] up in the morning like without waking up your wife my wife ain't waking up unless I start
[02:05:18] firing weapons in the bedroom like I'm good to go that girl is she's out and she's in
[02:05:23] her own little La La land which is awesome so it seems like there is a some level of
[02:05:28] genetic component to it where and you know this even happened in the teams like I would
[02:05:34] I definitely a hundred percent like I wouldn't need to sleep with at all and guys would be
[02:05:38] like hey I need to go down and I get cool yeah go to sleep and I could go for a really
[02:05:42] long time without you know on very little sleep and I've always been like that right
[02:05:47] and so there's there's got to be some level of like and I'm not claiming to be like oh
[02:05:51] I have some genetic gift but there's something like oh I can get by a little less you know
[02:05:55] we can test your genetics and see if you're super sleepers I wouldn't be surprised if
[02:06:00] I was and I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't you know I mean yeah it's super rare it's
[02:06:04] like the everybody wants to put themselves in that category and we're like well I'm
[02:06:08] just right and I'm not saying that I'm not I'm not saying this is you but well I just
[02:06:13] kind of did that so I guess I'm guilty but no I actually don't think I really am yeah
[02:06:16] I don't think I really am I think I I think you know I think the odds of being that is
[02:06:21] something like being struck by lightning while being attacked by a shark right okay I mean
[02:06:26] it's super super rare but I go to sleep but think about it's like anything else like how
[02:06:31] much do you suffer from a ruck like you know you're gonna go do whatever 10 20 mile ruck
[02:06:37] like how much are you gonna suffer does everybody suffer the same no right how much weight can
[02:06:42] you lift the same as everybody else like if you train the same like if you're like yeah
[02:06:46] how many how fast can you read how much do you retain like everybody's different than
[02:06:49] everything how much sleep do people need eight hours so like I if I go to sleep I can't sleep
[02:06:58] eight hours like I will not sleep eight hours and not because of how many do you sleep I
[02:07:02] could have been at 10 30 wake up before 30 like that's kind of no seven hours six hours
[02:07:08] six hours six hours six hours six hours and sometimes I go to bed at 10 you know like
[02:07:12] they're six and a half hours but you know if I'm it's hard for me to sleep like I'll
[02:07:17] be in some situation where you know whatever I go my wife and I go stay somewhere whatever
[02:07:22] and we have we there's you know no what is it there's nothing to do right we're on vacation
[02:07:29] for lack of a better word echo Charles we're cruising we're cruising and like I got a bed
[02:07:34] and it's so annoying because you know like what like then I'm awake we're in some random
[02:07:39] place and my wife's gonna sleep for more four more hours right now I'm like walking around
[02:07:43] in circles doing burpees in my room yeah so yeah it'd be interesting you know what you
[02:07:49] know what else was an interesting sleep experiment the arc did you ever do an arg platoon no
[02:07:53] so I never I nearly avoided you go out on a ship and when you're out on a ship you have
[02:07:57] no job as a seal you have no job and you're in this weird compartment where it's just
[02:08:00] dark if you you know guys and we had guys I had a guy in one of my platoons he would
[02:08:07] sleep for days I like seriously and and he was also a guy that probably had some kind
[02:08:13] of a sleep disorder because he would fall asleep on patrol like we'd we'd be patrolling
[02:08:20] and you know take a 10 minute break you know patrol for 50 minutes break for 10 patrol for
[02:08:23] 15 minutes break for 10 we'd be doing a hump across the desert we'd we'd sit down was an
[02:08:27] older guy no no no he lives in Texas I'll introduce you to him but he we'd we'd like
[02:08:34] take a break and you know you're like freaking sword you're humping through the desert thirsty
[02:08:38] and all the three minutes in the break you hear like and he'd be snoring yeah but he
[02:08:45] would go on the ship he would go on the ship sometimes he slept for like actual like like
[02:08:51] 18 hours you know and then he'd get up looking all groggy and so on the ship you could sleep
[02:08:56] as much as you possibly could want I mean there's nothing to do like subops even yeah
[02:09:01] I've something about same way even if you're the most like highly disciplined person and
[02:09:05] you're trying to complete your degree and you're learning to play guitar and you're
[02:09:09] working out you still have like an extra 17 hours to do nothing yeah so but even on the
[02:09:14] argument was like I could sleep but I and I didn't really think about sleep too much
[02:09:18] but I like I'd go to sleep and then just wake up like okay well I'm gonna do whatever
[02:09:22] yeah I mean there's several genes that I wouldn't be surprised if you have some of them I'm
[02:09:28] a guy who can get away without much sleep as well it's not as true now it's not true
[02:09:34] now like the older you get the harder it is but my freaking old neighbor Vietnam dude
[02:09:40] this this dude like I'd wake up in the morning he'd be sitting out on this porch yeah he's
[02:09:46] like yeah I don't sleep I don't need to sleep I'm watching the neighborhood he'd tell me
[02:09:49] I'd be like right oh man yeah yeah I mean it it's there's there's variation like when
[02:09:55] I was in I mean obviously the whole time I was in college and the whole time I was in
[02:10:00] medical school like I had a married and have kids you know like I'm coming over medical
[02:10:04] school like making dinner for my kids you know giving them baths reading them to sleep
[02:10:10] deprivation like it and I sleep in five hours a night on a good night for ten years now though
[02:10:19] part of its age but part of its and it wasn't until I figured this out for the team guys
[02:10:25] that I said well maybe I should apply this shit to myself right so I started sleeping
[02:10:28] more and now I now I'm really bad at functioning without sleep like I got used to it and I
[02:10:36] think you kind of the thing about sleep like one of the things it makes then obviously
[02:10:42] I don't just do sleep but sleep to big component of what I do just because it's the most important
[02:10:47] factor of your health if I do my job well first of all the sales pitch sucks because
[02:10:54] what sleep good for everything what's the worst thing you can say in marketing like
[02:10:59] it fixes anything like every you're better at everything when you sleep well you're smarter
[02:11:04] you're faster stronger smarter you're better looking like everything everything's better
[02:11:09] lower stress hormones higher anabolic hormones better appetite regulation everything's better
[02:11:13] when you sleep and so that's a terrible sales pitch now the other thing is like if I do
[02:11:19] my job really well and you sleep amazingly well you won't remember it at all and like
[02:11:25] no trust me it was great for you and like you know now at least you have wearables
[02:11:30] and you have people tracking their sleep and something like there's some you know there's
[02:11:33] something to make it a little easier for me and that and that respect but like there's
[02:11:38] I mean there's no question that's the most important aspect of your life and the big
[02:11:43] problem the other big problem of sleep is that when you so like the whole point of me
[02:11:47] going to sleep tonight is to repair everything that I did to myself today right everything
[02:11:53] that every fuel source I exhausted that needs to be replenished or any damage I've done
[02:11:58] that needs to be fixed and then I need to you store things and organize things and set
[02:12:04] hormone regulation for tomorrow so I'm repairing from today and preparing for tomorrow well
[02:12:11] it takes eight hours to recover from sixteen hours vast majority of the time let's say
[02:12:16] ninety five percent of people in the planet that way ninety eight percent of people maybe
[02:12:19] that way if I only sleep six hours instead of eight hours tomorrow still comes right
[02:12:26] if I didn't repair and prepare a hundred percent how do I do tomorrow right where am I going
[02:12:31] to get the energy from well I'm going to get that from stress hormones that's going to
[02:12:34] increase and stress hormones are catabolic if you think about it if I went to sleep and
[02:12:39] I could repair a hundred percent and prepare a hundred percent for tomorrow I would never
[02:12:43] age right I'd be exactly the same every day I'd wake up exactly the same every day there
[02:12:49] would be no aging involved the fact that I can't the reason I age if I decide to cut
[02:12:56] away twenty five percent of my sleep on purpose I'm choosing age twenty five percent faster
[02:13:01] if I'm somebody who's capable of sleeping eight hours right and like you said like not
[02:13:06] everybody is and some of that's learned some of that's yeah I'm going to be like habitually
[02:13:11] right and like I had a eighty well she's in her late seventies at the time a client like
[02:13:19] probably ten years ago and she's like I haven't slept more than four hours and twenty years
[02:13:25] and I was like that's not good for you so I get her like just sleep hygiene just my sleep
[02:13:33] supplement no drugs no hormones like just like nutritional supplements and sleep hygiene
[02:13:38] ritual around sleep start sleeping eight hours and like as far as I know she still is you
[02:13:44] know I haven't talked to in a few years but she feel better she just feel like she's wasting
[02:13:47] one quarter of her day so so so here here this is true about everything I do so everything
[02:13:54] performance based so I get people to sleep I get people to eat right get people to exercise
[02:13:58] right and get people to control their stress get their hormones in order I get their inflammation
[02:14:02] down with peptides whatever and they come to me like oh my god I didn't realize how
[02:14:09] bad I was until I felt good and that's like a month into her and then another month later
[02:14:14] oh no no now I feel like I used to feel like now and then three it takes like three or
[02:14:19] four months of like really good behavior to realize how much you've lost because our
[02:14:25] awareness like I said our awareness of sleep isn't there that's the whole idea of it right
[02:14:29] we're not paying attention to that but our self-awareness of how impaired we are just
[02:14:35] like a drunk person the research has been done over and over again I deprive you of
[02:14:40] this much sleep I give you this many alcohol drinks your blood alcohol level is this you
[02:14:45] haven't slept this much same thing like correlates exactly I just like that's so hard for me to
[02:14:51] understand because plateau I like that here's an example of this so we do an event at echelon
[02:14:57] front called the muster and it's a big event and when we first started doing it I'll talk
[02:15:03] about the second one that we did was in New York City it's you know there's 900 people
[02:15:09] coming there's all this stuff to get done there's and so long story short we we behind
[02:15:15] the scenes we weren't as squared away as we should have been so we had a bunch of stuff
[02:15:19] to do preparing these big briefs these slides get ready and we had to do all this stuff
[02:15:23] and so life who's doing it with me I think it was like 130 in the morning and we're
[02:15:30] the events the next day it's 130 in the morning we're signing 900 certificates of graduation
[02:15:38] we're gonna wake up at 330 to go do PT so we're on stage I mean I'm on stage with two
[02:15:44] hours of sleep yeah and I'm answering questions I'm giving presentations and that day is like
[02:15:48] starts it we get up at 330 we PT we go 430 the group comes in PT's we go get up on stage
[02:15:54] we do all day same thing the next day the next day we got other stuff we got to do we
[02:15:58] get no sleep and like and bro I mean we're we're on operations we used to like going
[02:16:03] on an operation especially in Ramadi you're planning you're planning planning planning
[02:16:08] right and I'm saying especially in Ramadi for me because we would plan with the army
[02:16:13] we got to go check in with Iraq he's got all the stuff going on by the time we go in the
[02:16:16] field we haven't slept right I remember being so happy to go in the field because I can
[02:16:21] finally sleep yeah like three hours yeah under under a bush on rocks and cactus yeah and
[02:16:26] so I never and look I mean I've been drunk before right and I wouldn't want to I wouldn't
[02:16:33] trust myself to get up on stage right and and you know if I had if I had I think I could
[02:16:39] probably have four drinks and still like present at the muster it'd be a little bit
[02:16:46] extra yeah but if you got me to like six drinks it'd be a different event right and it wouldn't
[02:16:51] be good a little bit so that's a kind of an exaggeration acutely you can compensate right
[02:16:58] so if you think about it so you know you have the autonomic nervous system right you have
[02:17:06] the parasympathetic and sympathetic and in the maximal sympathetic output we call fire
[02:17:10] flight right so when you get up into fight or flight what happens you become superhuman
[02:17:17] right your pupils dilate start taking a bigger field of vision right your lungs expand you
[02:17:23] start taking the more oxygen your blood pressure goes up your peripheral perfusion goes down
[02:17:28] so if you get caught you don't bleed to death you know your reflexes get faster you release
[02:17:32] a bunch of glucose you have more endurance more strength faster reflexes like you're
[02:17:35] superhuman you feel you don't feel amazing because you're scared right but you feel alive
[02:17:41] and ready right and you're like you can react to everything faster why don't you run around
[02:17:46] like that all the time because it's catabolic you're using yourself as the fuel source to
[02:17:51] get away from the danger because it doesn't matter so that's what I do in those events
[02:17:54] yeah so it doesn't matter if you can digest your food it doesn't matter if you can fight
[02:17:57] off infection doesn't matter because like you need to get away from this threat yeah before
[02:18:02] any of that matter so you're gonna marshal a hundred percent of your resources and touch
[02:18:06] that so that's what you're doing you're digging into the well or whatever yeah you're digging
[02:18:09] in now if you recover from that yeah and believe me like not a big deal like we have gone through
[02:18:14] great lengths like now at the muster it's everything is just so well oiled I mean we're
[02:18:19] going to bed at like you know nine o'clock and we joke about like all right 8 30 I'm
[02:18:24] getting ready to go to bed like we we love that you know it's this this this is to support
[02:18:30] what you're talking about I know this a hundred percent if I don't get actually when I'm going
[02:18:37] to an event like if I'm gonna speak I sleep a little bit less because it makes me more
[02:18:45] and she's engaged with what's happening even more emotional like right I will be more emotionally
[02:18:51] engaged if I'm super well rested I'm just kind of like cool like yeah everything's good
[02:18:57] and and I'll tell you another thing that well you already mentioned it like when I'm if I'm
[02:19:02] eating like crap yeah bro my sleep it's a desire I feel like crap right but the sleep is crap
[02:19:07] and that's a disaster the other thing is when you talk about stress I mean I don't stress
[02:19:15] about a lot like even like and I think it's getting you know you get used to in the teams
[02:19:20] like what what you know I wrote about in this book like what you got to know what to worry
[02:19:23] about what's important what's not important and for me the list of things that are important
[02:19:28] is this list that has like four things on it is like is your fam is my family healthy
[02:19:33] right right like okay like that's something else but hey they're healthy so I'm not stressed
[02:19:38] about that I can't like there's nothing else in the stress box that I'm really like because
[02:19:43] if you know what's going on oh I brought this product is coming out okay well what if the
[02:19:49] product fails okay then we'll do something yeah like so I think I'm pretty good with
[02:19:54] the keeping myself out of the stress zone eating good when I eat like crap I feel like
[02:20:01] crap look and pizza's a you know you gotta look at some pizza whoever invented that like
[02:20:07] what an evil bastard and chocolate chip cookies on the new york so like you get that but I'm
[02:20:12] lucky I don't like pizza I didn't like it until I was like damn but like my wife man she made
[02:20:19] this she my wife's the best prime rub prime rib in the world like it's the world-class
[02:20:24] prime rib and somehow she triple ordered or something over Thanksgiving because we eat
[02:20:31] prime rib for Thanksgiving but she we thought we're having people people didn't show up
[02:20:34] all the loss we had just massive hunks of prime rib yeah and probably I did like almost
[02:20:39] a carnivore thing yeah we're like four or five days and then and then she cooked another
[02:20:44] one and man I felt so good bro just eating like one big slab of prime rib a day yeah
[02:20:50] and I just was like mm-hmm so good diet and then the sleep works out and the and so so
[02:20:59] everything matters right everything matters you you and I are very similar in that I don't
[02:21:05] stress or anything either and by and large I think it's because I don't really remember
[02:21:08] I don't remember all the stuff I have to do if I remember if I could remember all of it
[02:21:13] I'd be I might be stressed but you know stress women's get a bad rap because everything so
[02:21:17] that is negative it's not negative right with no stress woman you die right stress
[02:21:22] women's keep you alert in proportion to your environment so if you're doing something that's
[02:21:26] really intense you want to be able to stress right you want stress hormones because that's
[02:21:29] kind of adrenaline nor adrenaline and that's amping you up making you feel good that quarters
[02:21:34] all is helping us releasing blood glucose and stuff like it stored glycogen into blood
[02:21:39] glucose so it's making you feel better it's making you sharper right like there's some
[02:21:43] things that's making you sharper now it does impair the prefrontal cortex a bit which is
[02:21:46] like your executive functioning here yeah so you don't want them to be too high because
[02:21:52] like you think about you know if you're in a fist fight can you remember your phone number
[02:21:55] like probably not right because like your prefrontal cortex that ain't working like you're not
[02:21:59] going to be planning your next trip or something while you're while you're in something stressful
[02:22:04] so that you know that's one factor now another factor is if you sleep really well and if
[02:22:13] you don't stress a lot during the day even if you short sleep it's it's not as big of
[02:22:20] a deal right because the quality of sleep is keeping your stress hormones lower like the
[02:22:24] lowest your stress hormones ever are when you're in deep sleep and of course they peak
[02:22:29] somewhere in the afternoon like I've heard 11 to 1 1 to 3 like I it seems to be somewhere
[02:22:34] on noon to 1 in most of the people I test you know that as you know it as that peak goes
[02:22:42] up people are feeling more and more alert their body temperature is going up there's
[02:22:45] all sorts of like good physiological things going on but people feel better under more
[02:22:49] stress hormones and you can go excessive and it becomes it becomes negative but just the
[02:22:55] fact that you're not somebody who stresses a lot like one of the one of the biggest things
[02:22:59] I do and and I can I can put out a link for your if anyone in your audience wants to check
[02:23:08] this out it's like a it's a PDF on my website but I can like do a lander for we'll do duck
[02:23:15] parsley.com yeah.
[02:23:19] Or something like Wynton would but people can download this the most and the most powerful
[02:23:24] thing I do is seems ridiculous have people take a piece of notebook paper and like draw
[02:23:28] a line straight down the middle it's like on the left side you're right to do on the
[02:23:33] right side it's to worry so to do list as far out as you're likely to worry about really
[02:23:38] like me I I'm kind of I never really got out of but some kind of like one evolution at
[02:23:43] a time like maybe I'll plan two or three days ahead like I don't I'm not I'm not somebody's
[02:23:47] going to be worried about something in months down the road but some people are so as far
[02:23:50] out as you're to do to worry is shit you don't have any control over but you know you're
[02:23:55] going to worry about it you don't want to forget to have the opportunity to worry about
[02:23:58] so you put that on the list and then you know there's some other stuff about setting alarms
[02:24:02] and getting ready and all this stuff but the big thing is when when you go to sleep you
[02:24:08] realize like to first I have to convince you of this you have to convince yourself this
[02:24:12] that the best you're ever going to be at handling that list is after you slept well right your
[02:24:19] exercise is good your nutrition is good controlling your daily stress the best you're ever going
[02:24:24] to be is after you fully wake up right to maybe an hour after you wake up after a good
[02:24:30] night sleep so there's no sense in thinking about anything on that list while you're asleep
[02:24:35] right because you're interfering with your goal of being the best you tomorrow so now
[02:24:39] from the time you go to bed till the time that alarm clock goes off in the morning you
[02:24:42] don't ever know what time it is because it doesn't matter and you're going to lay in
[02:24:46] bed and you're going to like meditate and breathe and relax if you're not asleep and
[02:24:49] then you're going to sleep when you sleep and if you wake up you just lay there and meditate
[02:24:53] breathe and relax or like whatever if your alarm is not going to go up for four hours
[02:24:56] you'll fall back asleep if your alarm goes off 30 minutes later all right you got seven
[02:25:00] and a half hours of sleep and 30 minutes of meditation get after it go right so you kind
[02:25:06] of have that built in naturally and and I think a lot of team guys do because you you
[02:25:12] go through some really stressful shit relative to like you get out in the entrepreneur world
[02:25:17] is like that's kind of stressful but like if I fail I can just start something else
[02:25:22] like something collapses like it's not really that I mean I'm not getting shot at I'm not
[02:25:26] cold and not wet you know it's just a different scene so I think that's that's why you're
[02:25:35] experiencing which experience now the other thing to remember those like if somebody
[02:25:40] goes out for a drink right they meet their buddy at a bar like yeah you know I'm going
[02:25:46] to stop by chat for a little bit and take off so I'm just going to have one drink because
[02:25:51] I want to drive drunk right I want to be impaired and then somehow they end up having to maybe
[02:25:57] I'll have another and then by like the fourth drinks I'm fine I can I can drive home like
[02:26:01] where did that decision making shift at some point you lost awareness of your impairment
[02:26:06] you became more impaired and you lost your ability to recognize that you're impaired
[02:26:11] sleep deprivation is the same way so you wake up and you're just like I feel good because
[02:26:16] the stress woman's making you feel good right you're impaired though like we just know like
[02:26:20] it's unavoidable it's just like putting alcohol on your blood putting you know putting stress
[02:26:25] woman's in your brain make your prefrontal cortex not as active now there's a there's
[02:26:32] a there's a little bump where it's actually better right because you're adrenalized you
[02:26:37] can't do everything better but there's some advantages to certain aspects to certain behaviors
[02:26:41] but then it goes too high and it's like it's really impaired right like you think about
[02:26:45] somebody who's super anxious are they good at anything yeah it's a bummer no they can't
[02:26:50] be good at anything because their prefrontal cortex is impaired that's what that's what
[02:26:53] anxiety really is you don't trust yourself you don't trust yourself to make a decision
[02:26:58] because you know you have a bad track of making good decisions or something and so you don't
[02:27:05] trust your ability to do it and now that's stressed you out even more and so it can be
[02:27:09] a really a death spiral for a lot of people because like I said if you don't get enough
[02:27:15] sleep then you wake up the next day with more stress hormones well the absence of stress
[02:27:21] hormones is what allows you to fall asleep so if you're running around with 20% more
[02:27:25] stress hormones than you need now when you try to go to sleep you're 20% higher than
[02:27:29] you should be and it might not be low enough to fall asleep and the other thing is your
[02:27:34] stress hormones are what's waking you up in the morning and cortisol is waking you up
[02:27:37] so if you're running 20% higher than you should be running then you're sort of your genetic
[02:27:43] background would have you running at well now you're going to wake up when you hit that
[02:27:50] same level that you maybe would have hit an hour later if you didn't have the sex stress
[02:27:55] hormones.
[02:27:56] Let's talk sleep protocol for optimal sleep protocol.
[02:28:02] So like I was talking about earlier you just think about think about humans 200 years ago
[02:28:12] right or maybe go back say a thousand years hunter gatherers right we don't see well at
[02:28:22] night we're crappy predators anyways right without weapons we're useless right we can't
[02:28:27] fight a raccoon right we're so we don't see well at night the sun goes down the blue light
[02:28:36] leaves our eyes we have nerves in our eyes that sense blue light they have nothing to
[02:28:40] with vision and then that triggers the changes in our brain which leads to the melatonin
[02:28:45] being secreted in the melatonin then changes a lot of things but one of the big things
[02:28:51] happens increases the snare peptide GABA which slows down our brain we quit interacting
[02:28:57] with the world as much and our body temperature goes down because the sun went down right
[02:29:02] so it's dark we can't see we back up into a corner to be safe because we're prey a
[02:29:07] thousand years ago like maybe we get in a cave whatever we make a fire now you really
[02:29:11] can't see right can't see past the fire so your world gets secluded you're not interacting
[02:29:16] you're not jumping around you're not climbing out lifting you're not right maybe telling
[02:29:21] some stories whatever and then about three hours after the sun goes down you feel like
[02:29:26] sleeping and you lay down and you sleep your body temperature keeps going down your stress
[02:29:30] hormones keep going down some point all that you know starts coming back up your body temperature
[02:29:35] kind of hits a maximum low and then it starts it kind of fires a survival response and you
[02:29:40] start building things back up and your cortisol comes back up and you wake up right around
[02:29:44] the time the sun's coming up you don't wake up because of the sun you just coincidental
[02:29:48] right like because that's how you're wired like every and every mammal on this planet
[02:29:54] uses the sun as it's queues want to be awake and want to be asleep so that's how our ancestors
[02:29:59] did it the closest you can get to that right that's what sleep hygiene is right everything
[02:30:04] you read about sleep hygiene is that right so blacking out your windows yeah because
[02:30:09] you don't one you don't want the light to you don't want to know what time it is when
[02:30:13] you wake up right turning down the temperature your house taking a shower taking a cold shower
[02:30:21] like you want to think about what do you do as a little kid right you have a three four
[02:30:26] year old kid bashing trucks together banging drums whatever you don't just throw that kid
[02:30:31] in a bed and turn the light on walk out they need a ritual they need time to get ready
[02:30:35] to go to sleep we study hunter gatherers today makes it's like 30,000 people who've never
[02:30:42] experienced electricity never experienced electricity they still live like our ancestors
[02:30:46] live they go out they hunt food hunting gather food for two hours a day the rest of the day
[02:30:50] they're fucking off having sex playing around whatever like they're the original aristocrat
[02:30:55] like that's where we would be if we stayed in that lifestyle so like you take your kid
[02:31:01] and what do you do it's like it's time for quiet play right put that stuff away we're
[02:31:05] gonna do puzzles or you know whatever we do something more today we're gonna kind of dim
[02:31:11] the lights that stuff right and then we give them a bath why gonna lower their body temperature
[02:31:16] right because you're not gonna give them a 98 degree bath give them like an 80 degree
[02:31:20] bath 85 degree bath then they get out and you powder them up and you put them in really
[02:31:24] soft clothes right okay you're not stimulating their skin and then you put them in bed you
[02:31:29] know make everything soft and comfortable and warm and cozy and then you read them a
[02:31:33] book that they already know right they can think about something like Dr. Seuss like
[02:31:39] trans inducing rhythmic rhyming like this yeah I do not like right and so the kids already
[02:31:48] know what the story and that's why they want to read that book it's like they want to be
[02:31:52] settled down you want to distract yourself so you can overcome any of that right you
[02:31:58] can overcome any of those systems now you're still you're still gonna secrete melatonin
[02:32:05] but you can you can get past the GABA the GABA urgic slowdown of the brain right so
[02:32:12] if you've ever had an experience where you're like you wake up and you're super tired you
[02:32:17] didn't get enough sleep you were you're regretting whatever you did last night because you didn't
[02:32:21] get enough sleep and so now you're like well man I'm just gonna go to work today I'm gonna
[02:32:27] do what I have to do today and then I'm gonna come on go to bed like six o'clock and I'm
[02:32:30] gonna sleep for like ten hours and feel great tomorrow and then one of your friends talked
[02:32:34] in they're like gonna have a beer and then that's a CNS depression it should make you
[02:32:38] more tired right and you start drinking beer and like there's attractive women around there's
[02:32:44] music going there's lights so there's whatever and like you all of a sudden feel really good
[02:32:49] and you don't you don't need to go to sleep anymore and like and then you stay up to midnight
[02:32:53] that night now you know you're sucking again the next day so so you can you can work yourself
[02:32:58] past it so just blocking the light say like whatever you wear blue blocking glasses generally
[02:33:05] like you have light bulbs in your house that don't have any blue lights like all that's
[02:33:09] available you're blacking everything out maybe you live in my candlelight after you know
[02:33:14] whatever and you're getting spending three hours getting ready for bed but you're at
[02:33:18] your computer working on some tight deadline for something for work that's stressful and
[02:33:22] you're gonna work till 9.59 to go get bed at 10 no that's not gonna work so you got it
[02:33:28] you got it you you have to do something to approximate the loss of light in your eyes
[02:33:35] you have to do something to slow your brain down to where you're not paying as much as
[02:33:39] much attention to your environment and you have to drop your body temperature that and
[02:33:45] that's what it is so that that PDF I was telling you about that's really for people who have
[02:33:49] problems falling asleep problems going back to sleep when they wake up and so I have those
[02:33:56] people set an alarm clock like an hour before bed and this is a generally a good idea but
[02:34:01] like anything else if you have problems be super like be fastidious and with this and
[02:34:08] like be exact and be you know very regimented and then once you get healthy sleep back just
[02:34:15] like once you get fit you don't have to do everything that you had to do to get in good
[02:34:20] shape like you just generally adhere to those principles so like but when you're having problems
[02:34:26] like setting an alarm clock an hour before it's time to go to bed and then you spend
[02:34:30] at least that hour getting ready for bed right even if ideally you'd be dimming the lights
[02:34:37] in your eyes three hours before bed but there's ideal in reality.
[02:34:41] It will take an hour.
[02:34:42] Yeah and so okay so do that once you get in bed you have your list right you've convinced
[02:34:49] yourself that the best time to handle that list is after you get a good night's sleep
[02:34:53] you get in bed you have no awareness of the time until that morning alarm clock goes off
[02:34:59] whether you need an alarm clock or not right because if you don't have the alarm clock that's
[02:35:05] something to worry about.
[02:35:08] Here's a jockeau admission if I don't have an alarm clock and there's any like if I
[02:35:12] have to be at work or yeah I have to do something and I don't have an alarm clock I literally
[02:35:17] will not sleep yeah I will just sit there and like you know when I first started traveling
[02:35:22] and lecturing a lot I was petrified I was gonna oversleep and like not make it to some
[02:35:27] lecture so even with a couple of alarms set on my phone I kept like every every no I'm
[02:35:33] like wake up my alarm go off okay so yeah right and like that's the thing so I say hey
[02:35:40] you have a morning alarm clock even if you think you don't need it because that's one
[02:35:43] thing you're not going to worry about so you're gonna the last time you're gonna see your clock
[02:35:48] is when you get in bed and until that alarm clock goes off it doesn't matter because you've
[02:35:52] already made yourself the agreement that I'm gonna be resting relaxing meditating doing
[02:35:57] breath work whatever or I'm gonna be sleeping for the next eight hours that's it I'm not
[02:36:03] doing anything else and it's some and something on something pops in my mind I go that's on
[02:36:08] the list I'm gonna handle that list in the morning when I'm feeling good right when I'm
[02:36:12] prepared now if there's something that's not on the list get my permission to turn the
[02:36:16] light on and write it down now it's on the list right and then you just lay in bed breathe
[02:36:22] when you wake up you don't know what time it is you have to go to the bathroom go to
[02:36:25] the bathroom get back in bed you don't know what time it is so I have like the little
[02:36:29] LED red like clock by my bed that's that's not needed it's not needed in fact it's counterproductive
[02:36:37] counterproductive because then I'm thinking about what time it is you as soon as you
[02:36:40] want it as soon as you know what time it is you're you have some decisions to make now
[02:36:47] right because it's like well I start doing some mental math right like well I'm not
[02:36:52] feeling sleepy it's only 130 and I so if I phone if I can fall asleep the next 30 minutes
[02:36:57] you start thinking about stuff like that or my alarm's gonna go off in 45 minutes anyway
[02:37:03] as I'm feeling kind of awake and I got this stuff to do and I got that sound I might as
[02:37:06] well just write and so it's better to just not know and go hey no I'm gonna be I want
[02:37:11] to be at my best tomorrow my best is when that alarm clock goes off and like I said
[02:37:16] I don't care how much meditation and breath work and relaxation you get relative to sleep
[02:37:23] do your do your best to get all of that asleep but if you know an hour of that's meditation
[02:37:29] and breath work and relaxation progressive muscle relaxation whatever you want to do
[02:37:33] whatever kind of cools you out whatever lowers your stress hormones like I don't care it's
[02:37:38] like that's restorative like that's non sleeping rest has its benefits as well and it's helping
[02:37:44] with all of that stuff and as I'm sure you've heard at this point you know sleep regulate
[02:37:51] your appetite right so how hungry I am tomorrow it's gonna be determined by how well I sleep
[02:37:58] today also what I crave the only animal on this planet that sleep defy itself is us other
[02:38:06] animals only do it if they're starving or they're being preyed upon so if they're being
[02:38:10] stalked they're only gonna sleep the bare minimum if they're starving they're gonna
[02:38:15] wake up earlier go to sleep later so they have can travel further and find some food
[02:38:20] so evolutionarily it makes sense that we're wired the same way so if we're not sleeping
[02:38:25] our brains like oh are we being stalked or are we starving which is it right and so I
[02:38:31] want to eat novel foods when I'm starving so I'll eat anything right like a green and
[02:38:36] brown green and orange donut yeah let's eat that right also if I'm starving what I want
[02:38:41] I want sugar for my brain like right now as much glucose as my brain can get this is my
[02:38:45] brain is working off of glucose right I don't have an option there ketones can do some of
[02:38:49] it if you're really ketotic but it's not it's still majority glucose and if I'm starving
[02:38:55] what I want to store some fat so I better eat some fat too right so what so what's
[02:38:59] a donut it's fried sugar bread right and so like I get all the I get the fat and I get
[02:39:06] all of the you know and I get all of the glucose in me so not only is it regulating how hungry
[02:39:14] I'm gonna be but what am I going to crave and then the worst part is that it determines
[02:39:19] what my body does with what I eat right so I eat proteins carbohydrates and fats some
[02:39:26] of that's gonna be stored as fat some of that's not gonna be absorbed at all and it's gonna
[02:39:30] go out of the way since some of that's gonna be used as energy depends on how well I've
[02:39:35] slept and how my hormones are balanced and so you know one it wanted the big jokes especially
[02:39:41] on men is that you know our arts the fat that we think of as being fat right not the not
[02:39:47] the fat around our organs and stuff but like our subcutaneous fat that has a lot of aromatics
[02:39:52] in it the enzyme that converts testosterone from estrogen in your brain uses estrogen
[02:39:56] as the measurement of how much testosterone you have so if your estrogen is really high
[02:40:01] your brain's like oh that's coming from testosterone so our testosterone must be really high too
[02:40:06] so we don't need to make as much testosterone now and now you get more fat and more of your
[02:40:11] testosterone becomes estrogen and like it's this so defeating spiral I could just keeps
[02:40:16] getting worse like now you're getting fatter because your hormones are low but you're converting
[02:40:22] like you have higher estrogen levels because more fat means a more inspiring and so now
[02:40:26] you're know it's like it's the same thing of having high stress hormones because you're
[02:40:31] not sleeping well now you can't sleep because you have high stress hormones and now you
[02:40:35] know I'm not gonna get to sleep tomorrow you're gonna have even more stress and so you can't
[02:40:39] sleep because you have too much stress hormones and you have too much stress hormones because
[02:40:44] you can't sleep. Same thing with estrogen and like testosterone gets converted is like
[02:40:49] we're not making tests as much testosterone because your estrogen levels are high, which
[02:40:54] leads to higher estrogen levels, which means lower testosterone level. And that's a self,
[02:40:59] you know, defeating itself propagating downward spiral. And so like all all of the all of
[02:41:07] that stuff's non negotiable, right? That's that's going to happen no matter how well
[02:41:13] you eat, no matter how well you control your stress and all that other stuff. So then how
[02:41:19] much you exercise and the other thing I tell people all the time, which is not popular
[02:41:23] at all, is that if you're sleep deprived, you shouldn't work out, right? Shouldn't
[02:41:31] exercise. I mean, you should move, you should do activity because there's benefit to that.
[02:41:36] But you shouldn't exercise with the intent of getting better at something, right to get
[02:41:40] stronger faster more quarterly. Because like I said, like all that's happening when you're
[02:41:45] asleep, all of that's all that repair and actually getting better at anything is happening
[02:41:49] while you're asleep.
[02:41:50] I'm just going to plead the fifth over here. Yeah, I was I was going to ask you that and
[02:41:57] I was like, I pretty much know what your answer going to be because there's people that have
[02:42:00] to make that decision. Like am I better off tomorrow? Okay, I know I got to be at work
[02:42:05] by eight. I know it's a late night. It's one o'clock in the morning. My kid was awake
[02:42:10] or whatever it's midnight. My kid was awake. Do I get up and do the do the workout? Yeah,
[02:42:15] do I get an extra hour of sleep, which is better? And yours is like sleep all day. Sleep
[02:42:20] is the is the answer.
[02:42:22] To an extent like if sleep is going to prevent you from doing anything, any type of activity,
[02:42:26] then I find a happy medium on that like go every other day or split it in half or something
[02:42:31] like that. Because you need the activity. There's a lot of benefits. And by activity,
[02:42:36] I mean, you know, whatever, going on a walk doing like some zone to type of cardio, doing
[02:42:43] some movement, like you could do like whatever you could do like movement drills or something
[02:42:47] like that. But like I wouldn't recommend rolling with somebody intensely and you know, you're
[02:42:53] not doing schoolwork like actually fighting. I wouldn't do that if I'm sleep deprived. One,
[02:42:58] you're way more likely to get injured as well. Like there's a there's a very, very clear
[02:43:03] correlation between how many hours you sleep and your risk of injury. And it's and it's
[02:43:09] it's huge. It's substantial. It's the difference. There was a study done in high school students.
[02:43:16] The difference between five hours, you know, six hours of sleep and nine hours of sleep
[02:43:22] was like a 300% difference. Right. So you're of getting injured getting injured. Well,
[02:43:27] the dudes are spending three more hours in bed every day. Of course, they ain't getting
[02:43:31] injured. Well, he's getting injured in their sport. So like while they're while they're
[02:43:35] doing this work. Yeah. So we need to get our sleep. That's the so here's something that
[02:43:40] it's really interesting for your guys for when you're working with fighters, right? So,
[02:43:46] you know, let's say I'm a great grappler and I'm going as a striker and I want to not
[02:43:50] like have a camp and I'm like, whatever, eight weeks to get improve my boxing or whatever
[02:43:55] my striking. And so it so if if I wanted to teach you something and I said, that's something
[02:44:04] I do. So I'm going to teach how to type with your left hand or something or play an instrument
[02:44:09] or something like that. And I say, Hey, come in for an hour of training in the morning.
[02:44:13] Okay. And at the end of that hour, we see where you're at. See where skill level is.
[02:44:17] And then when you come back at seven o'clock tonight, I'm going to retest you. When you
[02:44:21] come back at seven, you're going to be worse than your left training. If you go home and
[02:44:24] you go to sleep and you come back and test, you're going to be better than your left training
[02:44:28] because you're actually learning when you sleep. Interestingly, if I say, I'm going
[02:44:33] to teach you something this morning, I want you to take a nap today. And then come back
[02:44:37] and test at seven, you'll come back and test better than you left your training. And then
[02:44:42] when you go home and go to sleep, you're going to get better again. So if somebody could
[02:44:45] break their day and like have a midday nap, they could essentially get two days worth
[02:44:50] of training in a day. All fighters are doing that all the time. Yeah.
[02:44:54] And like fire, that's what fighters do. Yeah, like come train, go home, sleep, come train,
[02:44:58] go home, sleep, go home, train, go home and sleep for the night. Yeah. That's like, and
[02:45:02] that's, and that's like two days in football to write like a huge, huge skill bump during
[02:45:09] those two weeks because all you're doing is sleeping and practicing. That's it. It's
[02:45:14] like, it just seems like one long day. So it's just like, I don't know, Slough woke up
[02:45:20] and went to practice and Slough and woke up and went to practice. Because we would like,
[02:45:24] you know, because it's so damn hot where we are like, you know, 115 degrees in the summer.
[02:45:28] So midday, they, you know, sent us home, go eat, fall asleep for two hours or whatever.
[02:45:35] And then you go back to practice. And but like, they weren't doing it for that reason.
[02:45:39] But you know, a lot of things that once, you know, once you start learning the physiology
[02:45:46] of things, a lot of things become obvious, you know, it's like the sleep deprivation
[02:45:51] in boot camp, the sleep deprivation like hell, we can budge. That's a strategy. Like we're,
[02:45:57] one we're seeing how well you deal with it because that matters. But two, we're also
[02:46:00] looking for psychiatric disease, right? Because sleep deprivation, you know, can things come
[02:46:09] to the surface? Yeah, can reveal that. And we're in that age group where young men tend
[02:46:15] to have their psychotic break if they're going to be schizophrenic or their bipolar, like
[02:46:20] that's going to be revealed like in their teen to mid 20s kind of thing. So let's just make
[02:46:26] it happen. It's also a brainwashing thing, like when they brainwash anyone that gets
[02:46:30] brainwashed is sleep deprivation. Yeah, you're way more suggestible. Yeah. Because again,
[02:46:35] your prefrontal cortex doesn't work and engine like you can't and you don't have it out the
[02:46:39] energy to like defend your thoughts. You're fine. That sounds like a whatever.
[02:46:44] The cooling. China is great. America sucks. Yes.
[02:46:49] Oh, man. Awesome. What else, man? Do we get is that get us caught up to the current day
[02:46:58] other than where to where do people find you? Yeah. Doc parsley.com. You got to talk parsley.com.
[02:47:04] You're on Instagram. Kirk parsley. I'm on Instagram. Kirk parsley. Yeah, at Kirk parsley.
[02:47:10] And you say you're back on Twitter. I think we were talking about. Yeah, you're back on
[02:47:12] Twitter. Yeah, I got re in. Yeah, I got reinstated. Yeah, I got reinstated because you got shut
[02:47:17] down. You got you got. Yeah, I was I was like, I was like publishing or I was like sharing,
[02:47:25] you know, published research about about what COVID COVID and you got shut down mask, you
[02:47:30] know, social distancing, like whatever. When my Instagram account, I started really with doing
[02:47:37] a bunch of videos on code because it was such such bullshit at the beginning. I was just like,
[02:47:41] oh, like everybody knows this too. It's not I'm not brilliant. It's like everybody with any kind
[02:47:46] of basic biology understands that natural immunity is a thing, right? And it's better than a
[02:47:53] vaccine. Everybody knows that always that's always been true. We acted like it didn't even exist.
[02:47:58] So like I'm pointing that out, you know, CNN has their death tracker rolling at the bottom of
[02:48:03] the screen every day. I'm like, if you did that with car wrecks, no one would drive cars either,
[02:48:08] right? Because it's like, and they never give the denominator like this many people died today.
[02:48:13] How many people usually die? Right? Oh, so it's 20 more. Right. Right. So you. So I like, I spoke
[02:48:22] out a bunch against it. Surprisingly, I didn't get banned by Instagram. But Twitter, I was just
[02:48:29] sharing some I'd like share research and be like, you know, this suggests that that doesn't work
[02:48:35] or this suggests that we're missing that right. And just one day, nobody said anything, never got
[02:48:43] an email. Just one day, I just wasn't there. And then I was like, huh, couldn't get on. It says you,
[02:48:48] you know, you've been banned or blocked whatever the phrasing was. And then and I had about $10,000
[02:48:55] or something. And then all of a sudden they're gone, like, zero, zero, zero. But all my posts were
[02:49:01] still there. And I couldn't access that many of my posts, I couldn't do anything with them. And
[02:49:06] then it was after the announcement that that Elon was going to buy Twitter. But just before he
[02:49:14] actually bought it. And I just reappeared all of a sudden, just reappeared. I got it. I got an
[02:49:22] email that time. It's like, you've been reinstated. And you can get your seat formula at docparsley.com.
[02:49:33] If you want to order that. Yeah, we're going to do docparsley.com. Chaka though. Okay. Yeah,
[02:49:39] go for your audiences. And we'll put that worksheet on there. So anybody who digs this stuff.
[02:49:47] What else? Echo, you got any questions? Yeah, couple. So the, by the way, Echo is in full
[02:49:53] support of everything you say, like, rest is at the top of his list for life. I'm telling you,
[02:49:59] right, you can't just, he's, he's Hawaiian though, right? Yeah. And why there's a very good,
[02:50:04] robust rest culture. So, um, okay, so the down regulating of receptors, is that kind of the
[02:50:13] whole explanation for tolerance of any drug? Like, you know, yeah, that, so the technical
[02:50:21] phrase for that is it's tacky fill access. Yeah. And that's not really what that means,
[02:50:24] essentially, there's, there's some nuance to that, but that's an easy way to think about it. It's
[02:50:28] just, um, it doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter what's in your blood, if it doesn't have a
[02:50:35] receptor, right? So you have, you have to have a place to catch it. Both of those things are,
[02:50:40] you could say, think of it like a lock and a key, right? So like the, the keys, maybe what's floating
[02:50:44] around in your bloodstream, but then the lock is locked, it fits that key is the receptor. And so
[02:50:49] if you don't have the receptors, it doesn't matter how many keys are floating around. Yeah. And then
[02:50:53] different receptors can bind to like different stuff, right? Like, you know, Holly, you said, and you
[02:50:58] mentioned that I forget all the names, but you know, a receptor made for a very specific thing,
[02:51:03] can a drug can be developed to be like, Hey, it can bind to that receptor. And that's how
[02:51:07] most pharmacology is. So most pharmacology, well, you know, most, most medicine, most biology is
[02:51:14] just, it's really just descriptive, right? And we figure out a way to look to see something
[02:51:19] or to measure something. And then we go, Oh, this happens. And then that happens. And then we
[02:51:22] memorize the steps as though we now know something. Like, all you did is like put names to shit that
[02:51:27] was happening and memorize it. Like you, you're not it. But then they'll fit. Well, okay, so this
[02:51:33] molecule, we know when this molecule binds that it does this. So we can like cut that out, if that's
[02:51:40] a problem, or we can add some looking, we can have something bind that receptor that will do nothing.
[02:51:46] Or we can have something bind that receptor that does better than whatever is going to bind it,
[02:51:51] right? And so that's, that's really what pharmacology is mainly about other than antibiotics,
[02:51:56] which is a different category. But most, most drugs that have some effect on your physiology,
[02:52:01] that's how they're doing it. And then is catching up on sleep, a thing? Yeah. So
[02:52:08] there's, you got some sleep, you gotta catch up on that. Well, no, no, well, it actually, at first,
[02:52:13] I was like, I heard that it is, and I heard that it isn't. And then, but then you get, so we're
[02:52:17] talking about like, Hey, don't work out when you're sleep deprived. But bro, I'll work out sleep
[02:52:21] deprived sometimes have a great workout. Yeah. You asked me to do that the next day, bro, I'm dead.
[02:52:26] So I'll never do it. So like, I feel like I use, I went into the bank a little bit,
[02:52:31] use some stress hormones, banged out a solid workout, you know, caught up on some sleep,
[02:52:37] did my full recovery and I'm, and I'm good to go. Yeah. No, it was your original.
[02:52:42] Is like catching up on that. Is that a thing or am I kind of at a bigger loss because of that?
[02:52:47] So what, so what I, what I say about it is, like, like the reason, the reason that it takes eight
[02:52:54] hours to recover from being awake for 16 hours is because you're essentially,
[02:53:01] you're essentially stripping yourself of resources and you're building up waste products, right? So
[02:53:05] every cell in your body is like a miniature version of you. What do you do? Like you're awake
[02:53:10] a certain portion of the day, you're asleep a certain portion of the day, you take in nutrients,
[02:53:14] you do work with that nutrients and you create waste products, right? And your cell has to do
[02:53:21] all of that, right? And so your cells are producing waste products. A lot of that stuff isn't cleared
[02:53:26] out while you're awake. It has to be cleared out where you're asleep, especially in the brain.
[02:53:31] So if you don't do that, and let's say it's mildly toxic, so it's causing some inflammation,
[02:53:37] and then you don't get enough sleep. And especially like you stay up all night, well,
[02:53:41] you know, you have, you know, you're going through tomorrow and you're just building up more waste
[02:53:46] products. And so that's sort of damaging you know, not hugely, it's not like it's not gonna
[02:53:52] you cause some sort of noticeable brain damage, but just a slight impairment, right? Maybe a
[02:53:57] little inflammation, it's maybe strips some cells, some nutrients or something. So I say it's like
[02:54:04] if you break your leg, and you just walk around on your broken leg until it heals, it's still gonna
[02:54:10] heal. So to some degree at some point, you're just going to become the functional new you.
[02:54:17] Now, how badly it's broken and how well it repairs will determine how good the new you is. But if
[02:54:25] you break your leg and you go see a doctor and you line everything back up and you make sure that
[02:54:29] everything's right there and you put a cast on it and you take the weight off of it. And like
[02:54:33] now when that repairs, that bone's actually stronger, but there's still like a scar tissue in
[02:54:37] there. I can still get to an x-ray and say, oh, that was broken there. That bone might actually be
[02:54:42] better than I was, but there's some noticeable changes. There's some noticeable difference in
[02:54:46] there. Whereas you didn't repair it as quickly as you could. And maybe there's a lot of deformity
[02:54:52] and a lot of problems. It's a weak metaphor, but it's the best thing I have. So paying back your
[02:54:58] sleep debt does rebalance your hormones, rebalance your inflammatory cascades, a lot of your signaling
[02:55:07] molecules that tell your other cells what to do and tell well, tell cells what to do and tell
[02:55:11] cells how to communicate. All of that stuff can be mended. But if there's some damage done in there
[02:55:19] to where like you start, you have some inflammation, you wall off some of the waste products with
[02:55:26] it with like a protein that kind of like encapsulates it, like that's all damage. And so you don't
[02:55:31] necessarily recover 100%. But you can recover your function back. But that doesn't mean that you
[02:55:36] didn't do maybe a little bit of damage here and there. Yeah.
[02:55:38] Interesting. See how complex this is? Bro, it goes deep, right? You better get your rest, Hoang.
[02:55:46] Doc, any closing thoughts, man?
[02:55:48] Oh man, just happy to be here proud to serve.
[02:55:55] I don't know. There's so much to talk about. But
[02:55:58] for people in there not sleeping well, I'd say that's the foundation. I think you get that in
[02:56:13] place. And then that should repair hormones. But if it doesn't, like, work on hormones, and then
[02:56:20] like you and I were talking about outside of it, I think anybody who has some lingering issues after
[02:56:26] that, it's a, you know, go find yourself a doctor that does good peptides that helps regenerate,
[02:56:32] helps changes the cell signaling changes what the cells do a lot like hormones do.
[02:56:36] There's a lot of promising stuff in there. You can, we can probably start fixing some,
[02:56:40] well, we can definitely fix some injuries without surgery now that used to be surgical,
[02:56:44] especially tendons and ligaments and stuff like that. So
[02:56:49] unsolicited advice for your audience.
[02:56:51] No, it's awesome. I know I always, I often get a bad rap for being anti-sleep and I'm certainly
[02:56:58] not. And, you know, even in the book, Discipline, it was freedom field, man. I wrote like, hey,
[02:57:03] you need sleep. You need to get as much sleep as you need to be performing at your optimal levels.
[02:57:10] So yeah, I'm on board.
[02:57:13] So, so, you know, I say eight hours because the research boards out that just somewhere around
[02:57:17] seven and a half hours plus or minus half an hour. So it could be closer to seven. The only way
[02:57:23] anybody really knows how much sleep they need is if they go to bed at the same time every day,
[02:57:28] wake up the same time every day without an alarm clock and they feel good and refreshed.
[02:57:32] You're like, that's the only way to know. And again, that's ideal. What's reality? Like, I don't
[02:57:37] know. There's some, there's a bridge in between those two where we're going to, you know, use gadgets
[02:57:42] and tricks and supplements and things like that, like to help bring reality closer to ideal. But
[02:57:48] that's the only way you'd really know. And that's, and it's not the same every day. Like, the thing is,
[02:57:53] to remember, this is biology. It's not a car. So we're not tuning a carburetor. Like, this is
[02:57:58] biology. It's messy. It's approximate. And you don't, you don't need exactly the same amount of
[02:58:03] sleep tonight as you'll need the next night or the day before. It's like, if I go run an ultra
[02:58:07] marathon today, then I'm like 26 hours in a row of sleep. If I do nothing but lay on my couch and
[02:58:14] watch television, I might get away with six and a half hours of sleep. Like, it's, it's an approximation
[02:58:19] and the whole idea, you know, the preto distribution, like anything else, man, it's like 80% of the
[02:58:25] time you want to be doing the right thing. And that makes you more resilient for the 20% of the
[02:58:30] time when you can't do the right thing, right? Or when you don't want to do the right thing. And,
[02:58:34] and, you know, the trade off is worth it for you. So, you know, the most important part does not to
[02:58:40] be as zealot. And the number one reason people don't sleep well, it's because they're worried about
[02:58:44] not sleeping well. Right. Because they hear something like this. Or I like, they'll hear me on a,
[02:58:49] on a law enforcement podcast or something. And I tell them, shift workers die on average 12 to
[02:58:53] 14 years earlier than they're everybody else. Because the World Health Organization classifies
[02:59:00] shift work as a type two a carcinogen, which is the same thing as cigarettes were, which means
[02:59:05] we're pretty damn sure this causes cancer, but it would be unethical to test that like we can't do
[02:59:10] research and cause cancer in people. So it's a type two a carcinogen. And your risk of heart attack
[02:59:17] stroke, like everything increases, because you're sleeping against your circadian rhythm, right.
[02:59:22] And so they hear something like that. Now they're panicked, because like, well, I work shiftwork,
[02:59:28] I don't want to die. I don't want to die 12 years earlier. So what do I do? And so the number one
[02:59:34] reason people don't sleep well is because they're worried about not sleeping well.
[02:59:39] Maybe that's one of the reasons I sleep well. Chill out. Chill out. Chill out. Do what I said,
[02:59:44] like download that worksheet and do what I said. Get in bed. Like get in bed for eight hours a
[02:59:50] night, like figure out a way to do that. That's not impossible. I realize that it's not necessarily
[02:59:58] 100% possible for 100% of people, but do the best you can to do that. And let it be what it is.
[03:00:05] Like you'll help people say, Oh, you can't go, you can't go to sleep, get up and get out of your
[03:00:08] bed. You don't want to associate your bed without with not sleeping. And so then go sit in the living
[03:00:12] room and read a book or something and then come back. And when you feel tired, I don't agree.
[03:00:17] Like I have not seen that work well. And I mean, I've been doing this for 12, 13 years now. I've
[03:00:26] been having people on this and I don't see any way around the fact that if I get up and read,
[03:00:35] I'm not doing myself any benefit. Right? If I lay in bed and meditate, at least my stress
[03:00:39] hormone is lower. At least I'm getting some non sleep rest now. So just lay in bed. And the only
[03:00:45] reason that you're going to associate with negative thoughts is if you're stressed out about not
[03:00:49] sleeping. So if you're not stressed out, you're just going, Well, I'm just going to meditate.
[03:00:52] Like, well, then it's not just a place to meditate and sleep and have sex. Like,
[03:00:56] why not? Like all those are great things. Like just be in there as much as you can be. So
[03:01:01] I think Echo's next tattoo is going to say, get in bed, stay in bed.
[03:01:08] Maybe. My son, he wrote like this commercial for me. I couldn't find anyone to work in it.
[03:01:13] To work to act in it. Because everybody's like, Oh, like all the team guys are like, Oh, it's
[03:01:18] cheap. Like I don't because it says like, you know, my badass or whatever. It's like, badass is
[03:01:23] like me or something. And whatever. And then like, I can't afford any SAG actor because they,
[03:01:29] like you got to pay and have insurance and all this stuff. And so I never did it making it.
[03:01:33] But at the end of it, he's like, So what are you waiting for? Wake up, get some sleep.
[03:01:37] Oh, that's cool. But that's like a tagline in the back. We have like t-shirts or that and stuff.
[03:01:44] Wake up, get some sleep. Awesome, man. Well, thanks for coming down. Also,
[03:01:51] anyone that's listening to this podcast right now at this time, or if you've ever listened to this
[03:01:54] podcast before, you can thank Doc Parsley. Because if it wasn't for Doc Parsley, this podcast wouldn't
[03:02:00] exist. Why is that? Because Doc Parsley introduced me to Peter Atia and said,
[03:02:09] Jocko should go on Tim Ferriss's podcast. So that, that is literally the one little pivot
[03:02:16] in my life where I was like, Oh, you know, I meet Peter and Peter's like, Yep,
[03:02:21] tells Tim, you should have this guy on. And there it was. I went on Tim Ferriss's podcast and
[03:02:26] Tim Ferriss, when we got done recording, he looked at me and said, You should have your own
[03:02:30] podcast. And I was like, Hmm, that, that could be a thing. And then Joe Rogan heard that podcast
[03:02:36] and invited me in his podcast immediately. And then in the middle of that podcast, he said,
[03:02:39] You should have your own podcast. And so between those two guys, I started this podcast. So,
[03:02:43] well, when the kind of two top podcasters tell you that you should have a podcast,
[03:02:47] you know, it's funny. The first podcast I ever did was Rob Wolse. And it was because
[03:02:56] he was at my house, I think we're doing a, one of the pre or post retreats,
[03:03:02] maybe not, but we're definitely lecturing at the same event. And so he was staying at my house.
[03:03:07] And he all of a sudden goes, Oh, shit, I'm supposed to be on a podcast. You want to do a
[03:03:11] podcast? I'm like, Yeah, what's the podcast? And so I get, I, so we sit down with like a computer
[03:03:18] between us. And, and he's, and it's like on the armrest in between the two of us. And we just
[03:03:24] talking this computer and like, I don't know, I'm not the slightest bit nervous or concerned,
[03:03:29] because I don't know what the hell it's like, I'm just talking around. And then he, he calls me,
[03:03:35] and then maybe like two weeks later, and he goes, Here's dude, you got to do your own podcast.
[03:03:41] I'm like, why? And he's like, he's at Ferris on eight weeks ago. And your podcast has more
[03:03:48] downloads than his double the podcast downloads his and it's only been up for two weeks. And I was
[03:03:54] like, what's a download? Anyway, so he tried to talk me into doing my own podcast. And I'm like,
[03:04:01] I don't know, like, when I'm going to do podcasts on sleep, like that doesn't seem,
[03:04:04] doesn't seem sustainable. Like you can't do 400 episodes on sleep. Like maybe I guess,
[03:04:09] maybe you can. And that's the only thing anybody knew me for. So yeah, I think it would be cool
[03:04:16] because I'd like to, there's lots of people I'd like to talk to. But I don't know how the work
[03:04:21] ethic and time I do it. I just like, I travel so much like I don't, I'd be scattered like trying
[03:04:27] to compress doing 10 in a day or something. I got to know, like, it's more work than people think.
[03:04:33] It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. Yeah. I think people don't realize what goes into it. But
[03:04:38] well, like I said, if it wasn't for you, introduce me to Peter and then to Tim.
[03:04:43] Well, well, I think you got to give yourself plenty of credit. I mean, lots of guys have been
[03:04:48] on this podcast has not done with you. Not done with you done. Well, but yeah, we knew the,
[03:04:56] we knew the Joker legend spread. Well, I appreciated it, man. Yeah. And it's my pleasure.
[03:05:02] Yeah. Thanks for coming down. Thanks for having me.
[03:05:05] Obviously, thanks for your service. Thanks for what you did in the teams, holding the line.
[03:05:10] And, you know, especially for when you got done with the teams coming back and taking care of
[03:05:16] the teams and the team guys. And thanks for what you're doing today to continue to take care of
[03:05:20] them and take care of other people, man. Appreciate it. Yeah. Definitely. It's definitely my honor.
[03:05:25] Like it truly is my favorite thing to do. If I could just do, if I could just work with
[03:05:30] SF guys and like, I do that all day. Like it's, it's on like, you know, the communities just like
[03:05:39] cool. It's cool guys to treat and they're not fucking entitled little bitches. They're going
[03:05:44] to call me every hour. So like, like, they apologize for calling me once every three months.
[03:05:49] They're like, Hey, I'm really sorry, but I ran out of men like six weeks ago.
[03:05:54] So yeah. So it's a, it's a great community. And like I said, it, you know, the team's
[03:06:01] solely turned my life around. Like there's no way I would have achieved 10% of what I've
[03:06:07] achieved in my life if I hadn't gone there first. So like, I, there's no amount of payback for that.
[03:06:14] It's like, I'm indebted to that organization for the rest of my life. So,
[03:06:18] you know, you and me both, man. Awesome. Thanks for coming out, bro. Yeah. Thank you. With that,
[03:06:25] Kirk Parsley has left the building echo probably your most beloved podcast you've heard.
[03:06:33] We'll say it's my cup of tea. It's your cup of tea. Talking about the fact that rest is
[03:06:40] important. As you have to say. Yeah.
[03:06:43] Right. He was talking, when you guys were talking about the fast Twitch, slow Twitch, and you know,
[03:06:48] like your intermediate Twitch, bro, that was like, I never categorized even though I understand,
[03:06:55] I understand. And so I was like, like him where sprinting cool, even if I get in good shape,
[03:07:02] bro, I'll sprint all day as long as I get some rest between the sets, you know, kind of a thing.
[03:07:06] But bro, put me on the bike or running or something, bro. I feel like I'm suffering the
[03:07:10] whole time. I still do it. And then even when I'm done, if I'm in normal shape or whatever,
[03:07:15] if when I'm done, I don't feel super gassed. It's just that I'm suffering so much during the run.
[03:07:20] That's how I felt. And I wish I should have looked it up. I know we're going to cover that subject,
[03:07:24] but I remember reading an article and they had discovered this new intermediate Twitch muscle.
[03:07:31] And I was like, that's me. And I felt like, I felt like so good because it made sense. Okay.
[03:07:37] Because like I said, I was never winning any sprints. And I was never winning any 14 mile runs.
[03:07:45] But on a rucksack, we're just like, Hey, you got to put out for a long period of time and be a
[03:07:49] little bit strong. I was good at that grappling is the same. And by the way, my grappling, my, my
[03:07:56] physical genetics, they're good for a particular kind of grappling. And it's actually, unfortunately
[03:08:01] for you, it's the kind of grappling that you and I do. Right. Like you have the genetics for a three
[03:08:06] minute round or two, three minute rounds or something like this. I have good genetics for
[03:08:11] 38 minutes. Yeah. You know, well, I, yeah, and I would put it this way, yours, you're good for 38
[03:08:17] minutes going like putting on, yeah, putting on some heat. Yeah. Look, you're not exploding through
[03:08:23] stuff, which actually in Jiu Jitsu, you should probably avoid exploding into and out of stuff.
[03:08:28] Unless it's a seven minute match, you know, unless it's seven minutes, if it's a seven minute match,
[03:08:33] I'm going to, you know, you're getting the takedown. Like if you and I went in a set, if you and I
[03:08:36] did a tournament right now, a tournament match, 10 minutes would be problematic for you. So we
[03:08:41] couldn't even go black belt. We'd have to go like blue belt, like five minute or six minute
[03:08:45] match. You could win with, you know, you could win even, I would say more like a three. Okay.
[03:08:51] Three minute match, you could win six minute match. Probably going to be here. Yeah. After that four
[03:08:55] and a half, five. Yeah. Yeah. You could get like some kind of a takedown, maybe even though the
[03:09:02] problem with you trying to get a takedown on me is you, you would be too threatened by the guillotine
[03:09:06] and you'd probably not go for it. And you probably lose. That's true. See, and now you're talking,
[03:09:10] and this is not, I didn't strategic on you though. Yes. Which I would be doing anyways, by the way.
[03:09:16] Yeah. So, which is a good point actually. So look, we're talking about Jiu Jitsu here, right?
[03:09:20] Even though before we're talking about kind of like endurance and condition, whatever. So Jiu
[03:09:23] Jitsu, the mental part of Jiu Jitsu is way more important than the physical part of it. We're
[03:09:27] like getting excited and like all these things and what I'm going to do, well, how much you know,
[03:09:32] compared to how much I know, what you know about my, like all this stuff, like is such a huge
[03:09:36] factor. So just keep that in mind. So we're just talking essentially like nuts to nuts. If me
[03:09:41] in my physical attributes and a given or we'll say standard amount of not Jiu Jitsu knowledge
[03:09:46] versus you and your physical attributes versus the same amount of like knowledge, just the physical
[03:09:52] attributes, it would be problematic for me anything after four and a half minutes, I would say.
[03:09:59] That's if we were even on everything else, even on knowledge basically. Yeah. Because we're both
[03:10:04] about, I mean, we're both like 225. Yeah. And we're both the same height. And so, so that's a
[03:10:10] pretty good even match. Yeah. But I just know more than you do. Yeah. But if we took that away
[03:10:16] and we were just you against me with the same brain, the same knowledge, you'd be good for
[03:10:22] a little bit of time. Actually, I might, I could probably turn up the heat for a good two, two and
[03:10:27] a half minutes and maybe get the better. But bro, that heaviness and that like after a while,
[03:10:33] I'm like, bro, just just kill me. Yeah. And I could survive two and a half minutes pretty much
[03:10:37] with any. So that makes sense when you're talking about the rock where like someone like me would
[03:10:42] be like, rock this light, do that for like 1020 30 minutes, bro, no ways. I want to want to take
[03:10:49] that thing off. Like after a few minutes or whatever, but it'll feel like that'll get heavy
[03:10:53] real quick. And then you and then an endurance guy, brother, things can be heavy immediately.
[03:11:00] Yeah. Like it's kind of two, like I can jog pretty easily even with a rock, even with a rock that's
[03:11:06] like 75 pounds, I can jog like jog. It's going to put a hurt on some guys that are a little bit
[03:11:14] smaller, you know, or that have so much endurance muscle. So it made sense, man. And thinking back
[03:11:19] to all my experiences where I'm suffering, you know, and again, it's not like I can't do it,
[03:11:24] but I feel like, bro, these guys running have to be suffering way less than that.
[03:11:28] He trained for a couple of years and got worse at triathlon. That's crazy. So it's crazy. All right,
[03:11:35] but I know you like you because we talked about rest. You're a proponent. Oh, yeah. One of the
[03:11:40] best. One of the best at resting. You're probably the best wrestler that I've ever known. Probably
[03:11:44] used to be, you know, the kind where like you can fall asleep. The people used to be. Well,
[03:11:48] you know, I'm a little bit spoiled where like if someone has like, like if I go to hotel bed and
[03:11:54] the pillow is not the right thickness, you know, like, oh, it'll change. Or the, or the, or the bed
[03:12:02] is like kind of like, no, I don't know. Oh yeah. Cause you stay in the luxury hotel. I understand.
[03:12:06] It's actually, here's it. Here's like a little thing I feel bad about. Sometimes I'll go and do
[03:12:10] an event for somebody and they'll put me in, you know, the presidential suite, right? Hell yeah.
[03:12:16] And then I'll come down in the morning. How was the room? And I'm always like,
[03:12:20] it was great, you know, but in my mind, I literally do not care at all.
[03:12:25] But I remember the time and I'm damn sure not going, well, you know, the pedal,
[03:12:28] pedal, pillow is a little stand for whatever it is you just said. It's too soft. No. Okay. Remember
[03:12:33] the time it was you, you went somewhere like, and you stayed at, I don't know, you didn't have a
[03:12:38] hotel or something. So you stayed at like Jamie's rental house. I don't know. So you stayed somewhere
[03:12:42] like in someone's like an occupied house. And you didn't have any blankets or anything. So you got
[03:12:50] like a shower curtain. That wasn't Jamie's unoccupied house. That was? Yeah. Okay. Okay.
[03:12:56] Brad, you told me that story and this was like well into your career. So it's not like you were
[03:13:00] just, that was like a year ago. Actually, no, there's Jocko live. It was 2020. Just bro,
[03:13:05] bro, that story like, of course made me laugh. But bra was suffering with you mentally. I was like,
[03:13:10] bro, no pillow, like, and you're just battling through it, like whatever, bro, that couldn't
[03:13:15] have done it. I would have canceled the show. A shower curtain and a rug or something. I was like,
[03:13:22] bro, no way, bro. No, no way. Jack. All right. Well, you need rest. You're gonna need fuel.
[03:13:28] Another component. It's true. As they say. Yeah. Of physical fitness rest and get that fuel.
[03:13:35] Exercise rest fuel. That's the three components for getting stronger. Sir. So,
[03:13:40] Jocko fuel. What do we got? Kind of everything now. We have pretty much everything now.
[03:13:45] So we'll go discipline. That's the energy drink, new paradigm, all healthy. No, not healthy, all
[03:13:51] healthy. No sugar, no preservatives, no nothing and tastes good. All upside. Yeah. All upside.
[03:13:57] Also, Mooc. That's the extra protein. And you need extra protein when you're trying to build.
[03:14:02] It's hard to get all the protein you need, by the way. For real. How much protein you think you need?
[03:14:07] Well, you know, I usually have seven ounces of protein per pound of lean body. Ounces.
[03:14:17] It's one gram per, right? That's like the standard one gram per. Some people say 0.7 grams per.
[03:14:22] I say one gram per pound. Okay. So if you're going Jocko philosophy, that's if you weigh 220.
[03:14:30] 220 grams of protein. Yep. You got 30 grams of protein, one can of tuna. 30. So you need,
[03:14:40] how many of those? A lot. It's freaking a lot in one day, bro. That's a lot of protein.
[03:14:45] Now, if you eat steaks, it's like, I was like, I have to work it out for you.
[03:14:52] If you eat a steak that's like, like what, 50? 50 grams of protein? Yeah.
[03:14:56] Yeah. So you need four steaks in one day, but I get real. You know, not all of us can eat four
[03:15:00] steaks, but when you get the roll the mokin through the equation, right? Easy money. And it tastes
[03:15:05] good. It's like a dessert. It ain't going to help you with your math, though, Bernadette.
[03:15:09] That's what the discipline is for right there. Anyway, we've got some other stuff. Stuff for
[03:15:15] your joints, keep you in the game. Creatine. Back on the creatine train. Yeah. Right. That was a thing.
[03:15:21] And then because it's so, it's so well studied. That's the cool thing about it. Yeah. And the
[03:15:26] cool thing about it now is they're finding it's not just, it's not just for getting stronger.
[03:15:29] There's all kinds of, there's cognitive benefits. There's health benefits. So creatine, we just
[03:15:34] rolled out with that joint warfare, super grill immunity stuff. It's kind of everything. You
[03:15:42] know what I have to remember how this is a real thing, getting sick when you take a break. Remember
[03:15:47] that? Getting sick when you take a break. It was Huberman. If I was telling Huberman, or he mentioned
[03:15:53] something about when your body kind of when your mind stands down, like, oh, you have a break now,
[03:15:59] your body's like, oh, cool, we can get sick now real quick. Just get, you know, and that happens.
[03:16:03] That has happened to me like legitimately five times in the past 20 years where I had, okay,
[03:16:11] I've been going up, going hard, working really hard. And then I finally get a break and I immediately
[03:16:14] get sick. And so I'm, you know, cranking the cold war to keep that stuff at bay.
[03:16:22] Yeah, all that anti-inflammatory stuff, man, is good.
[03:16:25] Jocofuel.com.
[03:16:28] Wawa, vitamin shop, the military commerce, commerce areas, Hannaford, dash stores in Maryland,
[03:16:36] Wake Firm and Shoprite, Circle K in Florida, HEB. Come on, HEB, man. You're in Texas. There you go.
[03:16:42] Okay. Murphy's, Southeast, and Meyer in the Midwest. That's where you can get this stuff.
[03:16:47] Go get stronger, get better, get healthier. It's true. Jocofuel. What else?
[03:16:53] Origin. Boom, you got your jujitsu geese over there, that rash guards, got a pair of durable goods is
[03:16:59] what they call them. Jujitsu geese. Yeah, jujitsu. Train jujitsu. That's my recommendation.
[03:17:05] Yeah. Oh yeah, big time. Also, don't forget about the jeans, the belts, the boots.
[03:17:13] Don't forget about that kind of stuff. That stuff is like a big deal because nowadays it's hard to
[03:17:18] grab, get those stuff, the stuff that's made in America, but for real, made in America.
[03:17:22] From the dirt. Yeah. From its inception as a thought, it's made in America.
[03:17:27] When someone thought about it, it was in America. Yeah, it's true. So there you go.
[03:17:32] OriginUSA.com. Also, Jocofuel is a store. So where you can buy the stuff to wear, to represent on
[03:17:37] this path, discipline equals freedom. Good. Remember the concept of good, right? You want to
[03:17:43] represent that all day. Hats hoodies, all that stuff. Christmas is pretty much done. Yep. At this
[03:17:49] point. You missed it. You missed it. It's okay. You didn't miss nothing. Jocofuelstored.com.
[03:17:55] Also, we got the shirt locker, which is a subscription. People like this. People are
[03:17:59] representing hard on the shirt locker, where you know, a little bit different designs. Always has
[03:18:04] to do with the path though. Always. The designs always have to do with the path. Now, for you to
[03:18:09] understand, it's going to take some, some mental work, but it's kind of fun. But anyway, a lot of
[03:18:13] people like it. There's a reward to it. There's a reward to it. It's called the shirt locker. It's
[03:18:16] on jocofuelstored.com. Is it fair to say that the shirt locker shirts can be heavily layered?
[03:18:23] Heavily, heavily, heavily layered. Yes, it is fair. Right on. Awesome. Subscribe to the podcast.
[03:18:28] Go to jocofuelstored.com. We're recording a couple of those today. $8.18 a month. That's what,
[03:18:33] that way we have our own platform. You can see what's going on with platforms right now.
[03:18:36] They're getting people getting banned. Some people not getting banned. People going,
[03:18:40] turning from this, turning to that. It's mayhem out there. That's why we have our own platform,
[03:18:43] jocofuelstored.com. We own it. We totally control it, which is nice. So if you can't afford $8.18
[03:18:51] a month, just email assistance at jocofuelstored.com. We'll take care of it because we, we want,
[03:18:57] I want you to be free. We want to be free. Sure. We want you to be free. So there you go.
[03:19:02] YouTube channel, psychological warfare, flipsidecanvas.com. We got a bunch of books.
[03:19:09] Check out jocopublishing.com. Get Only Cry for the Living. Get Final Spin.
[03:19:15] All the other books I've written. Get them. Ashland Front, Leadership Consultancy.
[03:19:19] If you need help in your organization, go to ashlandfront.com. We have some events coming up.
[03:19:25] Orlando, Florida, April 3 to 5, 2023, Dallas, October 18 through the 20th, 2023.
[03:19:36] FTX Council Battlefield About. We did those Civil War podcasts, Civil War excursions,
[03:19:43] and those things are now selling out. So just if you want to go to Battlefield,
[03:19:47] go and sign up for Battlefield. Either come to Gettysburg and, and check it out or Little
[03:19:53] Bighorn. Very awesome events. We have online training platform called Extreme Ownership Academy,
[03:20:00] Extreme Ownership.com. This is leadership and life lessons that you can learn online. So check
[03:20:10] that out. Extreme Ownership.com. And if you want to help service members active and retired, you
[03:20:13] want to help their families, Gold Star families. Check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee. She's got a
[03:20:19] charity organization. And if you want to donate, only want to get involved, go to America's Mighty
[03:20:23] Warriors.org. Also don't forget about Mike of Think taking veterans out into the wilderness,
[03:20:30] heroesandhorses.org. And if you want to connect with us, well, remember you got Doc Parsley.
[03:20:37] He's on the interwebs.docparsley.com. He's got Instagram, Kirk Parsley. He's got Twitter,
[03:20:44] Doc Parsley. And for us, Echo, is that Echo Charles? He's back on Twitter, by the way.
[03:20:50] Are you engaging? Sparsely. But you know, I'm gonna engage more, I think. I hope. I'm gonna try.
[03:21:00] Maybe. Well, anyways, I guess it's not really worth following Echo Charles on Twitter if he's got
[03:21:05] that kind of attitude. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Facebook. I'm on the Instagram. Echo Charles on
[03:21:11] all those things too. Echoes at Echo Charles. I'm at Jocko Willink. Watch out for the algorithm.
[03:21:15] It'll get you. Thanks to, again, to Doc Parsley for what he's doing and what he has done. And thanks
[03:21:23] to people out there in uniform, pushing your body to the breaking point to protect our great nation.
[03:21:30] That's what Doc was talking about. You do that job, whatever you're doing in uniform,
[03:21:36] and you're sacrificing your body to protect the country. So we thank you all for what you do,
[03:21:43] everyone in uniform. And the same goes for police and law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics,
[03:21:46] EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all first responders.
[03:21:51] You heard what Doc said about shift work when you're staying up opposite hours and every one
[03:21:56] of those jobs I just mentioned, you all do that. You also sacrifice your bodies to keep us safe.
[03:22:04] So thank you for what you all do every day. And everyone else out there.
[03:22:07] Yeah, look, you got to push hard. But you do need to get rest. You do need to recover. That is critical
[03:22:18] for growth and for health. That being said, just do me a favor. Don't lie to yourself.
[03:22:27] Because there's some people are going to take this and run with it. They're going to make rest the
[03:22:31] priority of their existence. And I'm not saying, look, I'm not saying don't rest, rest. You heard
[03:22:36] me. You heard Doc, you heard Echo Charles chiming in. But when it's time to get up, get up and use
[03:22:44] the day to make yourself tired so you can sleep well. And the way you make yourself tired is of
[03:22:51] course by going out there and getting after it. And until next time, this is Echo and Jaco out.