Jocko Podcast 366: Place Duty Over Personal Feelings or Desires. Fundamentals.

2023-01-01T14:30:02Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles ou have to be able to educate people remotely. "Fundamentals of Marine Corps Leadership". An analysis. With Dave Berke and Jocko.

AI summary of episode

And as they got this guy he said they were leaving the ship and they looked like Wherever on the ship and stoner was there like doing the duty that they all had to do like they had to clean something to do Someone and he was up there just like doing it by himself and I was like, I can dig the dude was so freaking And like pumped, you know, um, that's taking care of your people Uh, never criticize. like oh when when when criminal broke walks on the reburr stand at attention Look, oh Roger that, you know like I know what you're saying, but Yeah, that followership in there is like this blind obedience is not what you want from your people when the skipper would when we be getting Ready to do like a seal team one when I got to seal team one and the skipper would come and talk to everyone Like we'd all be in the classroom But unless you've been in a situation like convent like oh crap The only way the the only way we will be successful is if we have real decentralized command mission type orders Chaka goes and makes things happen because all he knows is the outcome and I can't help him with anything else because he's off doing his thing You don't understand how not just how important is but how it actually works and there's just these little There's just like little little pieces of like garrison leadership inside that even it's like You can't get that Now if you go to a real restaurant like a big restaurant A bunch of different people and they're like those waiters are going to have to make some decisions That cooks are going to be like, all right, we're going to get this done Hey run over to run over to Vaughn's and grab some extra milk because like that stuff's got to happen people got to make decisions So in the garrison environment, you can micromanage things But as soon as you get into a dynamic environment as soon as you get into a combat environment You have to use decentralized command 100% and in any organization that's that's Going to progress you have to use decentralized command. Yeah, I'm like, are you like in your mind saying But in case he does we'll go with it kind of a thing or because there's a difference between that and then really leaning on someone For the plan like, you know, if it's clear that Dave knows more than You or me or whatever about something you're like, hey, we better go to Dave for this plan You know, that's like leaning on him for it we're gonna and you know what we're all gonna look so sharp that The boss is gonna know that we're the platoon that can get that's such a great example Because those are the it's like boss wants the paperwork done 12 hours ahead of the due date You know like oh come on like guys listen That's the those are the scenarios where your uniform you don't want to wear getting paperwork done Those are the far more realistic scenarios you had to come down and go. I'm guessing obviously uh, I think jim web James Webb's son, you know, he writes articles and he sent me an article that they've made some like significant changes in Marine Corps infantry training and They sounded outstanding and what it sounded like was it has shifted towards like what I when I ran training What we did which was like really decentralized like it was going to be mayhem It was going to be chaos and they're now hitting these Marines with those type of scenarios So that they're even more prepared. And it says that the two styles of leadership mentioned above are the extremes Each style has its bad and good points What are the good points of the first one like letting everyone know i'm in charge Making people in a team but not being a part of it telling supporters what to do and how to do it and making decisions without ever There's like Dang man, and how about like oh hey by the way you're jaco, you're free to pick what everyone you want to go However, you want to do this is up to like not one as good and one as bad. You know what that is Like the dress blues for for a navy enlisted guy below the let rank of e Six e six and below like you you look like a cracker jack box, you know, you look like a like a stereotypical sailor Ask some questions Ask some questions bearing bearing is a marine's general appearance carriage Deportment and conduct by your bearing you establish a standard for your periods of periods and subordinates Your appearance should show confidence competence alertness and energy your clothing equipment should be neat and clean at all times Your voice and action should be under control Few things can steady the morale of troops like a leader who with full knowledge of the difficulties of the situation Neither looks or acts worried when speaking to marines talking short plain sentences Never talk down marines or allow sarcasm to enter the conversation vulgar speech frequent loss of temper Like it says frequent loss of temper like occasionally go for it And an irritable nature show lack of self-confidence that subordinates easily see they react to the lack of self-confidence with resentment or even in Subordination avoid criticizing the entire group of marines for the failings of a few Those who didn't want those who didn't do anything wrong will resent it Your bearing should show dignity and control of both your emotions and your actions dignity shows pride and confidence in yourself and the ability of your marines emotional control shows that you have Any situation well in hand to develop and improve your bearing you should do the following Practice control of your voice facial expressions and gestures Demonstrate calmness sincerity and understanding master your emotions so that you can control them and they do not control you Speak simply and directly Like you said, it's like not like somebody wrote this with bad intentions, but um This is what this is what we're drawn to and the and the authoritarian mind is drawn to this even more and The orderly mind is drawn to this even more and the highly disciplined which as you know, obviously discipline is like my favorite Characteristic and if you have too much discipline, you're gonna fall apart in combat because this is not a disciplined environment combat I was thinking this I started thinking about this I'm like Is was this thing like the navy achievement medal of some like some like lieutenant colonel or major that was like We had like a rough grid of where the target might be Update us as we move Well, we had I mean, I think the term qrf is somewhat universal like the quicker reaction force We had a stand a standing qrf all the time which had a very short After five minutes we had some number like it was five minutes It was some at some period of time from the time that got triggered to launch the qrf was a very very short period of time minutes whatever it was The most likelihood of direct action Happened on those like if you will launch on a qrf you are going to get into some fight somehow So something somebody isn't getting the way so you can go up through the chain and I can actually skip my boss I'm it's rudimentary in this example, but I can skip my boss and go to the the big boss if I need to request mass and like he was Describing it can almost be like a you's like A threat or like I'm gonna request massed. Yeah, and maybe the thing about this and dude, we always talk about this We always try to picture the room of the people that are like in here writing this and who these people are I wonder if they like it's almost like you fall into the trap of like, oh these young Marines They need to be they need to have it explain to them so this stuff There's there's probably you just like just like shooting like there's a chance You know I would take Dave and get you dialed in at 300 yards on your rifle You're gonna do pretty good if I take a group of a hundred people and do that How many have some people that cannot that aren't gonna be hitting paper? That's what it seems like to me You can almost pitch like hey go back and come up with um, you know, like the best example you can Yeah, and they're like, okay.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocko podcast number 366 with Echo Charles and me jockel willing good evening. I go good evening
[00:00:06] Also joining us tonight Dave Burke. Good evening Dave. Good evening Dave happens to be kind of in San Diego right now
[00:00:13] So here you are
[00:00:16] Leadership strategy and tactics wrote a book called leadership strategy and tactics and in that book
[00:00:21] I talked about whether leaders are born or made and
[00:00:25] the answer is of course both
[00:00:27] People are born with certain characteristics that are beneficial for leadership, right?
[00:00:34] The ability to simplify things the ability to detach
[00:00:38] Being articulate these are all things that you can be born with various levels of and
[00:00:45] Thankfully, they're all things that you can
[00:00:49] improve
[00:00:50] Right, you can learn to simplify things
[00:00:52] You can learn to detach you can learn to become more articulate. Well, it's not easy and
[00:00:59] Some people can learn more easily how to simplify things some people can learn more easily how to detach
[00:01:06] Some people have a really hard time with it
[00:01:09] There's some things that you can't improve
[00:01:12] Right, I know in the book
[00:01:14] I use the example of being able to speak loudly because being able to speak loudly in
[00:01:19] In combat is beneficial and even even if you're trying to get you know, you're
[00:01:25] You've got an event going on and you got to get everyone to move through different room
[00:01:28] It's it's good to have a loud voice and a loud voice is a genetic thing and sure you could train it a little bit
[00:01:33] But you some people can only talk so loud
[00:01:36] Genetic in my family is loud at my house bunch of loud people
[00:01:42] So it's genetic trait. So
[00:01:45] Everyone's got some level of
[00:01:48] inherent
[00:01:49] Leadership capability and when you have some kind of a lack like if you don't have a loud voice cool
[00:01:53] You get someone on your team that does
[00:01:56] And there are some natural leaders out there, right?
[00:02:01] And the I don't know how look natural leadership means that they might have
[00:02:08] Some better characteristics, but what it really means is that they're humble and throughout their lives
[00:02:14] They've developed themselves over time, right?
[00:02:16] Some people
[00:02:20] have
[00:02:22] Very little leadership natural ability and then you have everyone in between
[00:02:26] I mean, there's there's some people that they just don't they just got they didn't get the the positive leadership
[00:02:32] Characteristics and they might be really awesome at other things
[00:02:35] Right, they might be a great athlete, right? How many great athletes are there that weren't great coaches? There's a lot of them
[00:02:41] So in fact some of them are actually bad coaches. They were great player, but they're a bad coach. They've great skills
[00:02:47] Athletic skills great ability to have great peripheral vision. They have great skills for athletics, but they didn't have a great leadership
[00:02:55] Capability and maybe they never developed it
[00:02:59] Imagine if you're like the best ball player you can end up with a pretty big ego
[00:03:02] Maybe you don't need to listen to a bunch of people so maybe you don't end up being the best leader
[00:03:07] but
[00:03:09] Leadership is what drives the success of an organization?
[00:03:12] So the question is how do you develop leaders and we know we talk about all the time we do it Dave
[00:03:16] And I do it for a living we develop leaders we teach leaders we train them mentor them
[00:03:21] We put them in leadership positions put people in leadership positions. We coach them
[00:03:24] We have developed those programs inside of organizations all very hands-on
[00:03:29] So how do you train leaders if you're in an organization that has hundreds of thousands of people?
[00:03:39] Obviously you're gonna use decentralized command right?
[00:03:42] Because you as the leader in charge of a couple hundred thousand people you're not gonna be able to train everyone yourself
[00:03:47] So you have to use decentralized command
[00:03:50] So that the training and the mentoring and the coaching is going to take place at at the subordinate levels
[00:03:55] But then if you have a few hundred thousand people in your organization, how do you set a baseline of knowledge?
[00:04:03] That's gonna drive the leadership
[00:04:07] Training and drive a leadership culture inside your organization. Well a couple months ago Dave handed me a manual
[00:04:15] And the manual is called it's from the Marine Corps. I know it's a big shocker coming from Dave Burke handed me a manual
[00:04:21] It's called the fundamentals of Marine Corps leadership and
[00:04:26] For all practical purposes, it's a correspondence course, which is kind of a joke in the military, right in the military
[00:04:32] It's like oh you went to Bud's through the correspondence course meaning you just you know filled out some paperwork and then you graduated or you went to flight school
[00:04:40] Would you do correspondence course to get through this?
[00:04:44] But correspondence course
[00:04:46] It's a real thing. It's something that is necessary
[00:04:48] It's a real thing. It's something that is necessary
[00:04:51] You have to be able to educate people remotely and now it's a lot easier to do that, right?
[00:04:55] Because now we have online training and everyone does online training it's advanced a lot
[00:04:59] We have the we have the extreme ownership academy
[00:05:02] And we've got a whole new platform rolling out with that. What date does that come out? What dates a new platform January 1?
[00:05:07] Oh my goodness happening. Oh, so this will be live
[00:05:10] so we have a new platform with that and
[00:05:13] And even you know when when laif and I first started talking about having an online training platform
[00:05:20] Both of us I think laif more so because I'd seen some other
[00:05:24] Possibilities laif was just thinking about what we had you know in the in the in the navy these online trainings that you had to take
[00:05:30] They were super boring
[00:05:32] Super not user friendly and it didn't seem like a viable option
[00:05:36] Of course
[00:05:37] Covid hit and all of a sudden everyone's online everyone understood the benefits
[00:05:40] And so luckily we had kind of started the academy now and then we went hard on it now
[00:05:45] We've got an outstanding product the new the new one that's all outstanding. Yeah, it's awesome. I was pretty impressed
[00:05:50] I was extremely I could actually I couldn't have been more impressed
[00:05:53] So we've got the extreme ownership academy
[00:05:57] Um, but before that was available things like this manual were out and the manuals dated October
[00:06:04] Of 2000 so there wasn't really a big online training capability
[00:06:08] And also this is
[00:06:11] Something to think about this before the war kicked off
[00:06:16] So there's sometimes as I read through this manual that I was like
[00:06:21] We've been we've been at peace for a while haven't we?
[00:06:25] Because war teaches and reteaches lessons unlike any other instructor
[00:06:32] And you'll see some of those so
[00:06:34] Anyways, but that being said there's a bunch of good lessons and reminders about leadership
[00:06:39] And I want to talk through some of those today
[00:06:42] and also put this up as kind of an example of the type of
[00:06:47] The type of program you can put in place if you're running a large organization or if you're running a small organization
[00:06:53] How often do we talk to clients that have?
[00:06:56] 40 people but they got a decent churn rate a little higher than they want
[00:07:00] They got new people checking in all the time or like you get a
[00:07:04] Medical staff let's say medical staff you got professionals, but they might work with a different team for three days
[00:07:10] And then not see that team again
[00:07:11] There's certain environments where you're going to have a rapid turnover
[00:07:15] So it's nice to realize that you can set up a standard operating procedure that you can give people some level of baseline
[00:07:22] knowledge very quickly
[00:07:25] And and you could move forward as a unified team if you have a good plan around it
[00:07:29] And this is sort of an example that so
[00:07:33] I also really appreciate the Marine Corps
[00:07:36] Because they they have a an ability to
[00:07:41] Speak to their audience in a way that can be pretty transformational
[00:07:49] So
[00:07:50] Young marine stopped by the gym today just out of boot camp
[00:07:53] You know and you you're looking at him. Yep 100%
[00:07:56] You know as soon as I saw him I was like, yep, this guy this kid just graduated from Marine Corps boot camp
[00:08:00] You know he's standing at attention waiting to talk to me. I'm like check
[00:08:03] He's like, you know, good afternoon, sir. Yep
[00:08:06] Good afternoon
[00:08:07] When did you graduate from boot camp four days ago outstanding, you know
[00:08:11] So the Marine Corps gets that job done. So
[00:08:14] Let's go to this book the fundamentals of Marine Corps leadership
[00:08:18] It starts off by saying congratulations, which is a really like again, they're getting in your brain right away
[00:08:24] Congratulations on your enrollment in a distance education course from the distance learning and technology
[00:08:29] Technologies department of the Marine Corps students since 1920 heritage
[00:08:34] Heritage since 1920 the Marine Corps Institute has been helping tens of thousands of hard charging Marines
[00:08:41] What kind of marine art? I'm a hard charger. You got this, but you're already hard charging
[00:08:44] You're already in the game like you
[00:08:47] In to improve their technical job performance skills through distance learning by enrolling in this course
[00:08:52] You have shown a desire to improve the skills you have and master
[00:08:56] master new skills to enhance your job performance
[00:09:00] So you can see how they're coming out of the gate
[00:09:04] And then it says your personal characteristics. This isn't a question by the way
[00:09:08] It's not a survey about your personal characteristics
[00:09:12] It's saying your personal characteristics. You are properly motivated
[00:09:15] You have made a positive decision to get training on your own self motivation is perhaps the most important force in learning or
[00:09:21] Achieving anything doing whatever is necessary to learn is motivation. You have it
[00:09:27] This is outstanding
[00:09:30] You seek to improve yourself you are enrolled to improve those skills
[00:09:34] You already possess possess and learn new skills when you improve yourself you improve the core
[00:09:43] Listen you
[00:09:45] Corporal Lance corporal
[00:09:47] Shmucka telly you are helping the entire marine corps right now by reading this book by going through these procedures
[00:09:53] And we thank you for it. You have the initiative to act of course marine corps always trying to get you to take initiative
[00:09:58] By acting on your own you have shown you are self self-starter willing to reach out for opportunities to learn and grow
[00:10:04] You accept challenges
[00:10:06] This is like the affirmations that people say but they're saying it to you
[00:10:09] You have self-confidence and believe in your ability and by the way, it's all true like these are all factual things
[00:10:17] You have the self-confidence and believe in your ability to acquire
[00:10:20] Acquired knowledge and skills you have self-confidence to set goals and the ability to achieve them enabling you to meet every challenge
[00:10:26] You are able to set and accomplish practical goals
[00:10:28] You are willing to commit time effort and the resources necessary to set and accomplish your goals
[00:10:32] These professional traits will help you successfully complete this long-distance learning course
[00:10:40] And then it goes on
[00:10:42] I could read the entire thing and just you know, we could just sell a uh, what's an audiobook right?
[00:10:46] Just get fired up
[00:10:48] But then it talks about how to begin the course and it tells you how to do it
[00:10:50] It's like a leaf through the text and do an assessment of the different phases
[00:10:54] And then study the first unit it tells you how to study because you know look a lot of these kids
[00:10:58] They you know, you know, if you're unless in the Marine Corps you may or may not have paid attention to one class in your entire high school, right?
[00:11:06] And then you're preparing for the final exam and it tells you gives you these unused unused minutes
[00:11:13] Apply what you have learned use the shakedown cruise technique
[00:11:18] Ask another marine to lend a hand by asking questions about the course choose a particular study unit and let your buddy fire away
[00:11:23] This technique can be interesting and challenging for both of you
[00:11:26] just give you
[00:11:28] If you followed what the Marine Corps told you to do you'd be an outstanding marine
[00:11:34] The sooner you complete your course the sooner you can better yourself by applying what you learned
[00:11:39] However, you have two years from the date of enrollment to complete this course. I hope it doesn't take so many two years to complete this
[00:11:45] graduating
[00:11:46] As a graduate of this distance education course and as a dedicated marine your job performance skills will improve benefiting you your unit and the
[00:11:53] Marine Corps Semper Fidelis
[00:11:55] So that's the intro they're coming out of the gate hard. They're getting right in your head like 18 year old jocco
[00:12:02] I'm ready to rock and I'm ready to do some correspondence courses, bro
[00:12:06] Now here's the thing. This is what you got to watch out for. How does this sound?
[00:12:11] It depends on who
[00:12:13] Is reading it right so you could look at this thing
[00:12:16] If you got a did you have a have like a slang term for Marines that were just they didn't want to be there
[00:12:21] Yeah, I'm thinking like strap hangers and some other terms and there's probably some more derogatory ones that I'm I'm
[00:12:26] I'm blanking on right now, but yes, there were definitely terms. I just can't think of it. Yeah, just somebody with like a negative mindset. Yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:12:33] Yes, you could take uh, you know the last podcast that we did we talked about building a palace or building a lean to
[00:12:40] You could read this and be like do this is such a load of shit
[00:12:43] You could totally do that. I could do it right now. We could go back through this thing. I could laugh at it, right? It could be like, uh
[00:12:48] Congratulations on your enrollment in distance education course
[00:12:53] Since 1920 the Marine Corps Institute has helped tens of thousands of hard charging. You know what I mean? Like you can see you see what I'm doing
[00:13:00] totally
[00:13:02] Yeah
[00:13:04] And Jamie got a client from an email the other day and she was mad about it
[00:13:08] And I was like
[00:13:10] Because she doesn't have a there's like a little a little issue with the client and she's working through it
[00:13:16] And I'm like um, so she read me the email. She's like, can you help me with this email bad?
[00:13:21] And so she she read it to me and the tone that she read it was like super negative and I go
[00:13:27] I go cool. I go read that again and pretend that I'm that it's an email from me
[00:13:32] And she just went quiet
[00:13:34] Because what the email said was like hey, we want to adjust some dates on this thing
[00:13:38] But it was like the way she read was like hey, we need to adjust the dates. I was like, well
[00:13:42] Oh girl
[00:13:46] So you got to kind of
[00:13:49] You you're gonna you're gonna read it the way you want to hear it
[00:13:54] So why not build a palace instead of a lean to why not turn this thing into something awesome?
[00:14:00] That's my recommendation
[00:14:03] Uh
[00:14:04] So lesson one and the way this thing's laid out is it's like got the lesson playing got the learning objectives
[00:14:08] It's like sort of normal military
[00:14:10] stuff um, it starts off placement and purpose of the marine
[00:14:13] NCO in the chain of command the chain of command is the system the Marine Corps uses to to ensure that each
[00:14:18] Marine receives instructions for a particular task from only one supervisor each immediate supervisor in turn receives
[00:14:24] Instruction from his or her immediate supervisor. This process continues up to the commandant to the Marine Corps
[00:14:32] In this way each supervisor is a link in the chain of command from the commandant to each Marine Corps
[00:14:38] And from the commandant to each Marine
[00:14:42] That's a that's like a
[00:14:44] Hey, they might as well put the president in there that the president of the United States is in there too
[00:14:48] They should throw them in there except for the fact that they're look, you don't really care
[00:14:52] Hey, man, I work for the commandant never mind anybody else, but I work for the command out of the Marine Corps. That's where I'm at
[00:15:00] Um, this chain serves two purposes the first of these purposes to decentralize authority
[00:15:05] Since it is impossible for one person to assign duties to every marine or to supervise every task personally
[00:15:11] Assignments are passed down through the levels of command. This is called decentralization of authority
[00:15:18] for example
[00:15:21] The mess officer tells the chief cook what foods to prepare for a meal the chief cook then tells the section cook who in turn tells the other cook
[00:15:29] Cooks whenever duties are assigned to a subordinate that subordinate must be given the authority to accomplish those duties
[00:15:36] The subordinates held responsible for accomplishing the assigned task, but overall responsibility for its success remains with the marine
[00:15:42] Originating the order. This is a horrible example
[00:15:46] And there's a couple reasons why
[00:15:48] Number one, it's talking about cooks and we don't want to hear about cooks, right?
[00:15:54] Um
[00:15:55] Not that logistics don't win war because they certainly do
[00:15:58] And not that I don't love the people that make food for me when I'm in the military
[00:16:02] But that's not really what makes it a bad example. It's actually good that they're given some various things, but here's the thing
[00:16:08] The mess officer tells the chief cook what foods to prepare for a meal
[00:16:14] Right that is wrong
[00:16:16] The
[00:16:17] Cheat the the mess officer should be saying hey
[00:16:22] This is how many people we have to feed
[00:16:24] This is how many people we have to feed
[00:16:30] Make it happen. Yeah, he could be like hey, this is all we were able to get from headquarters supply. This is the you know like
[00:16:36] He doesn't tell I shouldn't tell him anything other than when he needs to get done and what he's got available to make that happen
[00:16:41] Yep. Yeah, I just really wrote down. I I was showing like I literally wrote down the word tell with a question
[00:16:47] Don't do that. Yeah, and really then the chief cooks should be like hey guys, you know, here's how many people we got to food feed
[00:16:53] What what do you guys think we should make?
[00:16:56] and let the troops decide this is authoritarian leadership and
[00:17:02] It's not the best way to lead
[00:17:05] So watch out for that
[00:17:07] Just watch out for that
[00:17:09] Besides the decentralization of authority
[00:17:11] Another purpose of the chain of command is to link different levels of command
[00:17:15] It is a way that the infantry private can talk to his battalion commander
[00:17:18] The private first goes through his fire team leader with a problem if the problem cannot be solved by his fire team leader he sent to squad leader
[00:17:23] Then the platoon sergeant and platoon commander and finally the company commander
[00:17:28] If the problem cannot be solved by any of these marines after they have
[00:17:32] They are seen in order of their authority the private is sent to the battalion commander
[00:17:35] Any marine can go as high as necessary to get the problem solved
[00:17:39] All that the marine must do is follow the chain of command one step at a time
[00:17:42] A marine does not have to disclose the subject of a request mass
[00:17:46] To anyone in the chain of command except the commander with whom he is requesting the mass
[00:17:50] This is always like a big threat
[00:17:54] Of requesting mass. Did you did you guys hear that threat? Oh, yeah
[00:17:58] Yeah, well, we'll make a guy want to request mass usually the sense of being wronged or something like that
[00:18:04] Listen, I heard I mean
[00:18:05] I obviously knew what requesting mass was and at some point in my career
[00:18:08] I was going to be the person that they were going to be requesting
[00:18:10] Did you ever have one dude it never happened never happened. What is it?
[00:18:14] Basically like and I know jocke had to but like you want you want to make sure marines understand that they they
[00:18:20] They do have the latitude that if somehow that there's there's there's some misconduct occurring in their chain of command
[00:18:27] They can go up the chain to the right authority
[00:18:30] To to have their grievance error. They're concerned, you know articulated to the boss
[00:18:33] So something somebody isn't getting the way so you can go up through the chain and I can actually skip my boss
[00:18:38] I'm it's rudimentary in this example, but I can skip my boss and go to the the big boss if I need to request mass and like he was
[00:18:46] Describing it can almost be like a you's like
[00:18:49] A threat or like I'm gonna request massed. Is that say like in mass? No, that's something else captain's master
[00:18:56] That's that's in the other direction. That's like echo. You did something dumb and you
[00:19:01] Lost equipment or you did something dumb got in trouble now. You're going to captain's mass. Okay, so it's like okay got it
[00:19:09] But this one is this one is like, you know, I'm in an argument with Dave Dave is my boss
[00:19:14] and I think
[00:19:17] Dave's making us do a dumb plan and I could literally say I'm requesting captain's math. I'm requesting asked
[00:19:22] I'd be like jocke you're not on duty tomorrow, but you're gonna come in and it's like Christmas day or something
[00:19:27] And you're like, no, I'm not on duty and I don't have to do that. And like this is the duty roster and I have the day off
[00:19:31] I'm like, nope. You're coming in and he in theory could be like
[00:19:36] I'm gonna go over your head and I'm gonna go to the boss and say like hey
[00:19:38] I think he's treating me unfairly and and that way he's not evicted by my really awful leadership of making you do something
[00:19:44] That's dumb. We're not fair. So it's like enough or it is an official
[00:19:49] Like what he called protocol to go above above the chain or whatever
[00:19:54] That's it
[00:19:56] off discussed
[00:19:58] Rarely executed
[00:20:00] When we when we had that mutiny. Yeah, that was kind of like that. It wasn't quite official
[00:20:06] Because but we were like, hey, we want to talk to the skipper and we went talk to the skipper
[00:20:11] But it wasn't like we didn't we didn't have to go to the floor
[00:20:13] There was another time there was almost like a request mask scenario that someone was talking about but I don't remember what it was
[00:20:20] all right
[00:20:22] The purpose of the marine enceo and the chain of command the marine enceo non commissioned officer
[00:20:28] Is the lowest rank link in the chain of command?
[00:20:31] The first purpose of that link is to carry the orders and information passed from the enceo's immediate supervisor to the enceo
[00:20:38] Sporn it's a pass requests from the marines up the chain of command and let me give you a little hint everybody
[00:20:44] You're gonna be translating
[00:20:47] What is said down the chain of command and translating what is said back up the chain of command
[00:20:51] So if I'm working for Dave and echo works for me and echo says this is the dumbest thing we've ever done
[00:20:58] I say hey, sir. We'd like to reconsider the way approach that we're taking
[00:21:02] And when when Dave says tell those guys to shut up and do what I told them to do
[00:21:06] I say hey echo
[00:21:07] I did brief the skipper about this and we're gonna go ahead. We want to proceed with what we've been directing
[00:21:12] So you're gonna do translation
[00:21:15] And you're translation you're actually buffering the friction that's gonna be there because it's definitely gonna be there
[00:21:19] Uh in this manner the enceo is a link between marine subordinates and their commanding officer as this link
[00:21:26] The enceo is responsible for enforcing the orders of the commands orders and commands of the commanding officer
[00:21:30] The enceo accomplishes this by assigning tasks and then supervising work. That's what
[00:21:35] You know, I mentioned that this was this is coming out in the year 2000
[00:21:39] And you can see it's and we're gonna get to some part where they go more decentralized and they're using the term
[00:21:43] Decentralized, but what we're reading is not decentralized. This is orders and execution
[00:21:48] And following duties, right? That's what that's the way this reads
[00:21:53] and
[00:21:55] Again
[00:21:57] This is aimed at a very low rank. I've it's written in here somewhere
[00:22:00] But this is aimed at like corpils and lance corpils like e2 e1 z2 z3s
[00:22:05] um, maybe e4s
[00:22:07] so
[00:22:08] Yeah, so and I didn't read that opening piece
[00:22:11] But if when I hear enceo in the marine corps a corporal in the marine corps an enceo
[00:22:15] That's actually not common across so you're you're I see this as a way to teach
[00:22:20] Enlisted Marines e1 e2 e3 private lance corps a private private first-class lance corporal how to one day become an enceo
[00:22:28] And I'm really like man, this is rudimentary. It's almost like they're doing it on purpose like
[00:22:33] They're describing decentralized command
[00:22:35] In a way that's actually not decentralized command because it's so rudimentary like
[00:22:40] Don't tell people what to do. But I got okay. I think what they're trying to explain is like this is how
[00:22:44] This is how it works in the chaining command. It's really low level in the way that described it's described
[00:22:49] Uh, when a subordinate is given a task to supervise the enceo must also give the marine enough authority to accomplish the task
[00:22:56] But overall responsibility remains with the enceo remember
[00:22:59] Then here's a great point
[00:23:01] As a supervisor in the marines or civilian life you can delegate authority, but you can never delegate
[00:23:07] Responsibility and this is something we talk about giving ownership
[00:23:10] You know when I give ownership to dave to go and accomplish a project and he messes it up
[00:23:17] I still own the failure
[00:23:20] So um a second purpose of the marine enceo is to train marines to perform their assigned tasks
[00:23:26] This training usually in the marines m.os is a combination of on-the-job training and classroom instruction
[00:23:31] The marine enceo must be able to demonstrate and teach
[00:23:34] More important. He must inspire the marines making them want to learn the skills expect
[00:23:38] He's expected to master or they expected to master
[00:23:42] And the third purpose is to ensure close supervision and personal guidance of junior marines
[00:23:48] And this part disturbed me without a supervising enceo many tasks would not be finished properly if at all
[00:23:58] The personal guidance provides a junior marine with someone else to turn to with help or personal problems or preferences so
[00:24:06] We don't like that
[00:24:08] We meaning me. I don't know if you do. I shouldn't I say I should I don't like it
[00:24:11] I understand exactly what you're saying. So we you don't want to have a group of people who unless they are
[00:24:20] Supervised closely. They don't do things right that means I'm failing in like 19 different ways as a leader
[00:24:25] So that's that's not our goal. Our goal is not to just
[00:24:29] Have everything so supervised that it gets done because if we're supervising that closely
[00:24:34] Well, then we're too close to problem and we aren't seeing the other things
[00:24:38] We're not seeing the big picture and by the way, why why why do we have troops that aren't doing what they're supposed to do?
[00:24:44] So if you're a leader in an organization if you're working at a company and the only way things get done properly is if they are being
[00:24:53] Strictly supervised. This is a horrible sign
[00:24:56] You need to start going down the path of giving more ownership giving more autonomy
[00:25:01] Giving people parameters giving them mission type orders, which means telling them
[00:25:06] What needs to get done why it needs to get done but not how to do it?
[00:25:11] That's what we're gonna go for
[00:25:13] Yeah, you you said it already and I was thinking about this this
[00:25:17] the concept of decentralized command and how it's different from
[00:25:22] I tell you you tell your subordinate you tell your like that is not decentralized command. That's the direction which the
[00:25:27] Things flow in the chain of command if you want to use that from a hierarchy
[00:25:32] But I just I can't help but think about the the timing of this like October of
[00:25:37] Sorry, October of 2000. Yeah, like that's like 9 10. That's like right before 9 11
[00:25:42] And before that was like desert storm which listen desert from was legit
[00:25:46] But it was like four days long like it and so you have an error here
[00:25:50] And what I had what I wrote down is like DC works decentralized command works
[00:25:54] But it doesn't it doesn't become
[00:25:58] as as
[00:26:00] It doesn't reveal
[00:26:02] The necessity of it until you're in an environment by which nothing else will work other than decentralized command and in garrison you can kind of
[00:26:11] You can kind of power your way through you can you are you can still micro manage
[00:26:17] and chain of command lead in garrison and if you spend a
[00:26:21] Like a career in garrison
[00:26:23] And
[00:26:24] What they're describing and this is not to defend it like just you said it well like this is we don't want to do this
[00:26:29] But unless you've been in a situation like convent like oh crap
[00:26:33] The only way the the only way we will be successful is if we have real decentralized command mission type orders
[00:26:38] Chaka goes and makes things happen because all he knows is the outcome and I can't help him with anything else because he's off doing his thing
[00:26:43] You don't understand how not just how important is but how it actually works and there's just these little
[00:26:49] There's just like little little pieces of like garrison leadership inside that even it's like oh, that's the wrong word
[00:26:55] Don't use that word. It's the wrong word. Yeah, and without the context of
[00:27:00] knowing
[00:27:01] When and how it works and I know it's kind of like they're going to say the real world
[00:27:05] But I'll talk about combat without that you are going to use the words that they're using and they're not the right words
[00:27:12] The psychology of military incompetence
[00:27:14] Wait that book was so spot-on and it was able to capture sort of the
[00:27:20] The things that I always thought about
[00:27:23] but
[00:27:24] The the fact that in the garrison environment
[00:27:27] You can totally micromanage. You can totally micromanage
[00:27:31] Like it's like if you work at a restaurant and you only have like you've got you've got 10 tables
[00:27:38] And hey, here's the rules at our restaurant
[00:27:41] Only five tables are going to be filled at a time. We've got
[00:27:45] Five tables. We actually have five waiters
[00:27:49] and we've got
[00:27:50] five cooks
[00:27:51] And boom waiters going to talk to that cook and okay cool. Yep. Hey, you getting what they need? Yep, everything's like you micromanage everything you can
[00:27:59] Hey
[00:28:00] Bring them their bread bring the table that bread
[00:28:03] You know, you can do it. Did they get their drinks you can micromanage everything in a restaurant that has
[00:28:07] Five tables five waiters and five cooks because everything is just
[00:28:12] It's going to work
[00:28:13] And even when someone says, you know, hey
[00:28:16] Can I get extra onions? You like no no no that's not on the menu. You can't get that
[00:28:22] Now if you go to a real restaurant like a big restaurant
[00:28:26] A bunch of different people and they're like those waiters are going to have to make some decisions
[00:28:29] That cooks are going to be like, all right, we're going to get this done
[00:28:30] Hey run over to run over to Vaughn's and grab some extra milk because like that stuff's got to happen people got to make decisions
[00:28:36] So in the garrison environment, you can micromanage things
[00:28:39] But as soon as you get into a dynamic environment as soon as you get into a combat environment
[00:28:42] You have to use decentralized command 100% and in any organization that's that's
[00:28:48] Going to progress you have to use decentralized command. So yes, if you work at a completely controlled
[00:28:56] Environment you can micromanage. It's going to it's not going to be as efficient
[00:29:01] But it is a feasible thing. Yeah, it's not going to be as efficient
[00:29:04] But it's going to be a feasible thing as soon as you get to
[00:29:08] Any any kind of dynamic environment you're going to fall apart if you if you try and micromanage everything. It's the way things work
[00:29:15] All right
[00:29:17] four areas of
[00:29:19] nco responsibility
[00:29:22] Your country one responsibility as a marine nco
[00:29:26] To your country is to demonstrate behavior that dignifies the united states of america and
[00:29:31] The american people for example when you are in a foreign country
[00:29:35] Conduct yourself in such a way that the people of that country will not be offended
[00:29:39] Convey the feeling that you are an ally and are in their country as a guest friend and protector of freedom
[00:29:49] Not every marine read that section when I was in the seale teams in the 1990s on ships with the marines pulling it into port
[00:29:57] The marine corps as a marine nco
[00:30:01] It is your duty to be loyal to the marine corps policies
[00:30:03] You have responsibility to develop leadership skills professional knowledge and proficiency
[00:30:07] You develop this skill knowledge and proficiency through on the job experience reading taking correspondence courses attending service schools
[00:30:14] And by seeking new tasks
[00:30:15] You also have the responsibility of presenting a favorable image of the marine of the united states marines to both public and or sister services
[00:30:21] Community activity and friendly interservice competitions are ways of presenting a favorable image
[00:30:28] Check organization your responsibilities to your own organization or many one important responsibility
[00:30:34] This training marines as a team in developing that teams loyalties
[00:30:38] And it says here to achieve good teamwork a unit must show
[00:30:42] Unhesitating response to orders and regulations
[00:30:45] You accomplish this by demanding discipline within your unit by taking responsibility at all times for the conduct of your marines
[00:30:50] So they're going hard in the paint for the garrison life. Yeah
[00:30:54] You're bummed out you gave me this book aren't you?
[00:30:56] Well, no, I think it's awesome because I'm like I can't help but
[00:31:01] I know what you're trying to say. I that's what I'm telling myself when I'm like, I hear what you're saying
[00:31:05] I know what you're trying to say and so
[00:31:08] Inside that and you do a good job like you you can pull out the components of like
[00:31:12] This is really what you need to be doing. Yeah, and so words like demanding. We're not going to say that
[00:31:17] But but in the end I go, oh, I know what they're getting at. So I think it's actually a really cool exercise
[00:31:24] To go through this and other things and actually look and go
[00:31:27] Hey, this is what they're talking about here. This is a better way to do that or this is a way to pull out
[00:31:33] What the lesson could be even though it's not explained very well or not written very well and the other side of like
[00:31:38] It'd be better if they just did it said it differently
[00:31:41] They just did it said it differently. So like this book is awesome and everything's perfect in here, which is not
[00:31:45] Well, the crazy thing is we've covered so many Marine Corps manuals where they literally are perfect
[00:31:50] You need war fighting and it's just like, okay. Yep. This is a
[00:31:53] Totally don't change a word and as a matter of fact embrace this and put it into every aspect of your life
[00:31:57] Yeah, and maybe the thing about this and dude, we always talk about this
[00:32:01] We always try to picture the room of the people that are like in here writing this and who these people are
[00:32:06] I wonder if they like it's almost like you fall into the trap of like, oh these young Marines
[00:32:12] They need to be they need to have it explain to them
[00:32:14] It's and like no like you don't need to do that quite so much like they almost feel like they fell in the trap of
[00:32:20] All these kids are so young. They're so uneducated. They're so inexperienced
[00:32:23] We have to make this so rudimentary that they actually don't do it correctly
[00:32:27] As opposed like no, we need to explain this the way you'd explain it to anybody whether you're the CEO of a giant company
[00:32:32] No, is there differences? Sure depending on your lay of leadership
[00:32:34] But it's almost like they make it
[00:32:37] Too narrow because they maybe don't think the audience would understand it. I'm gonna go one step further
[00:32:42] I think you're right where they're like, hey, we're telling these guys what they need to do is shut up and unhesitatingly follow
[00:32:47] All orders. Yeah, that's basically it like you're gonna get told what to do and you should do it immediately
[00:32:53] Right, that's what they're saying. Yeah, that's literally what it says
[00:32:56] Unhesitating response to orders and regulations like that's what it's saying now listen
[00:33:00] Is there an element of that in any organization?
[00:33:06] Sure
[00:33:08] However
[00:33:09] Unhesitatingly
[00:33:11] What what we're getting at is I'm not gonna question anything that I'm told and this is the last thing I actually want totally
[00:33:16] And if I'm dealing with a brand new guy that doesn't know anything
[00:33:20] I still want him to go hold on sir
[00:33:21] Can you explain to me why we're doing it this way because I want him to know that
[00:33:24] Yeah, and they don't they don't reveal the fact there's a balance in any of this or dichotomy because there's actually examples
[00:33:30] You give where you're like, hey do this and actually you need your people to respond right away
[00:33:35] And when they don't you need to realize oh damn they know something
[00:33:39] I don't know and there's a reason they're not doing it unhesitatingly. So even inside that there's
[00:33:43] There's a there's a balance in that dichotomy. That's just not revealed. So you're gonna read and go
[00:33:48] uh
[00:33:49] Un whatever the word do exactly what I say when I say it like
[00:33:53] I know what you're saying, but that's not right. Like that's not what you do. What podcast did we talk about colonel pogh?
[00:33:58] What were you doing?
[00:34:00] It was it it was one of those marine corps. I believe it was one of those manuals and we were picturing
[00:34:05] Like there was one the guy kept throwing in a sentence
[00:34:08] And like it was like the last paragraph of each section
[00:34:11] It was all these awesome paragraphs and this morning like that sucks
[00:34:13] That's not right and you pictured like the guy in charge was colonel pogh who took all like his junior marines awesome writing
[00:34:18] And he's like i'm gonna make sure they also know at the end
[00:34:21] The person in charge still gets to do what he wants to do with some garbage like that and it was that I don't remember
[00:34:26] Which one is that colonel pogh? Yeah, and if you don't know what a pogh is that's a slang military term for like the rear
[00:34:32] echelon person that's
[00:34:34] all
[00:34:35] authoritarian leadership style and never does anything
[00:34:40] Real that's the pogh and speaking of colonel pogh
[00:34:44] Unit courtesy is clearly related to the unit's discipline and cooperation an example of unit courtesy is coming to attention for an officer
[00:34:53] This is like
[00:34:54] So pre 9 11 unit courtesy has a special impractical use often instructions for a mission must be given in noisy surroundings
[00:35:01] Time and effort are saved
[00:35:03] If the commander has the attention of all marines at once rather than waiting for marines to be quiet
[00:35:07] The officer should not be expected to shout over the voices of the marines and compete with surrounding noise too
[00:35:13] So
[00:35:14] Like you see they put a nice little element of truth in there like oh, yeah
[00:35:17] Oh, you're kind of like yeah, yeah, but you also you're like thinking
[00:35:20] It's like telling it's and there is I am a believer that there is truth that
[00:35:27] being a good follower
[00:35:28] Is get you on the path of being a good leader like being a good follower is important and there's just this
[00:35:33] this overarching piece of of
[00:35:35] How to be a follower is like this the foundation of this like oh when when when criminal broke walks on the reburr stand at attention
[00:35:41] Look, oh Roger that, you know like
[00:35:43] I know what you're saying, but
[00:35:45] Yeah, that followership in there is like this blind obedience is not what you want from your people when the skipper would when we be getting
[00:35:51] Ready to do like a seal team one when I got to seal team one and the skipper would come and talk to everyone
[00:35:56] Like we'd all be in the classroom
[00:35:58] And when the skipper would walk and they'd say feet that's what they'd say did they say that to you guys
[00:36:01] Attention on deck they say feet
[00:36:03] No, I would like that because it was a big change from you know, you go to boot camp and it's a tension on back
[00:36:08] And you get to the seal team one and I'm young jocco in there like you're all standing by and he comes in here feet
[00:36:14] And you're just like boom. Yeah
[00:36:18] I was motivated by some weird stuff when I was younger
[00:36:21] Uh developing unit loyalty is another of your responsibilities to your organization
[00:36:27] Just as you must ensure loyalty toward marine core policies
[00:36:31] You must ensure your marines have loyalty toward the organization's policies
[00:36:38] It's kind of strange to be talking about policies like
[00:36:42] Like in this book at this juncture. I don't know like let's talk about combat people
[00:36:48] Let's talk about every marine's a rifleman
[00:36:51] And belief in the mission. Yes
[00:36:54] And taking care of your brothers. What you're talking about. Yeah. That's what you mean. Yeah
[00:36:57] Yeah, did you wait? Did you mean do you mean take care of your your your fellow marine? Is that what you mean here?
[00:37:02] Is that what you mean?
[00:37:05] Uh, if unit pt is required, this is how you know this is how you know if unit t
[00:37:10] You unit pt is required. You must conduct real pt session
[00:37:13] You can't just go through the motions making each assigned task as interesting as possible and doing each task enthusiastically will help
[00:37:18] You develop your unit loyalty. Okay, we'll give it to him
[00:37:23] um
[00:37:24] Subordinates as a marine nco. You have certain responsibilities to your subordinates
[00:37:29] It's the qualifier of certain right
[00:37:31] You have certain responsibilities to subordinates. Actually, you're 100 responsible to your subordinates
[00:37:36] You must train subordinates in their m.os to develop the proficiency and skills marine the marine corps needs often proficiency and mos means life and death
[00:37:46] Either to the individual marine or to another marine. You must educate your subordinates in the military skills and encourage
[00:37:53] Individual self-improvement. You must be aware of educational opportunities and the unit's policies to know where to direct
[00:37:59] Marines desiring aid
[00:38:02] Cool. They want to educate their marines. This is this is
[00:38:04] When you invest in your people
[00:38:09] When you you know when you're working at a bank and you got a teller and you're like, hey
[00:38:15] We can pay for your you know to get you to get your cpa and you can become a financial advisor
[00:38:19] Like when you set people up and you invest in them
[00:38:22] You want to talk about developing loyalty. That's how you develop loyalty. You take care of your people
[00:38:27] invest in their education
[00:38:29] Give them more opportunity talk to them about what it's going to get to get them
[00:38:33] promoted
[00:38:35] Uh, it says here perhaps the most important of the responsibilities of the nco towards subordinates is taking care of their physical needs
[00:38:41] These needs include quarters and food. You have no control over building
[00:38:46] Which is an interesting thing to say you have no control over building. Okay
[00:38:50] But you can ensure that the assigned areas are as good as the situation allows by enforcing high standards of police cleanliness
[00:38:57] And discipline you can make the quarters as comfortable as possible with as with building
[00:39:01] You have no control over food preparation
[00:39:04] But by ensuring that the marines are on time for meals and improper uniform. You can make meals more pleasant
[00:39:13] I'm starting to lose it dude. I'm starting to lose it
[00:39:16] Well, here's here's one thing that's crazy me. I get it man
[00:39:20] I have no you have no control that right there
[00:39:24] I've I don't think I've ever told a person in my life. You have no control over this particular thing, right?
[00:39:30] I don't think I've ever I don't think I've ever told I certainly would never teach a group of individual human beings
[00:39:35] You have no control
[00:39:38] Over your building. I was like, oh wait a second. What are you talking about? We don't like where we live. Okay
[00:39:42] What can we do to fix it? What can you do to make it better?
[00:39:45] What well, let's let's let's get together and explain what the shortfalls are so we can pass up the chain of command
[00:39:50] So we can get some improvements
[00:39:51] We want, you know to get this the the sink in the bathroom to stop dripping cool
[00:39:56] We I do that maintenance myself like what I have no give no control over what you eat really
[00:40:01] No control over what you eat like maybe today
[00:40:05] But if I'm gonna live here and I'm in this chow hall and you don't think that I can raise problems and get things fixed and adjusted and moved
[00:40:12] Please don't tell me I have no control over something
[00:40:15] Um, there you go. I'm firing up a bunch of Marines right now. We're getting fired up
[00:40:20] This is the first time the Marine Corps at large is gonna be mad at me. I was gonna be going to the chow hall like we want steak
[00:40:27] Semper fi brothers you deserve steak
[00:40:30] Um in the field you will be the last one to eat check
[00:40:34] You can take care of your Marines needs by ensuring that all problems such as those
[00:40:37] Enquarters maintenance food quality and food quantity are brought to the attention of immediate super. So you're gonna get that
[00:40:42] Food quantity are brought to the attention of immediate super. So you're off control
[00:40:46] come on
[00:40:48] Marines like everybody else need relaxation recreation time is made available for all Marines organized
[00:40:53] Organizational sports and unit get-togethers are ways of letting Marines relax mentally and physically you must ensure that Marines get their fair share of liberty
[00:41:00] This responsibility to your subordinate Marines is as of much such importance that it will be discussed in a later separate lesson
[00:41:08] Before you can expect the most of your subordinate Marines
[00:41:11] You must ensure their well-being take care of your team and they will take care of you take care of your people and they will take care of you
[00:41:20] Mayhem out there
[00:41:21] Importance of leadership. Why'd you hand me this manual just to make me like frustrated?
[00:41:26] Uh, it sounds worse, you know, you know, sometimes I've I've told you I've told both you guys like
[00:41:31] I'll read a book like when especially early on when I read a book for the podcast
[00:41:36] And I would it first happened with the forgotten Highlander
[00:41:38] I was reading that book and I was like, damn this is a pretty heavy book
[00:41:41] But when I read it out loud, it was so amplified in my head, you know, it's so much more emotional
[00:41:48] And so much more harsh when I was reading this
[00:41:52] A few days ago. I read it on a plane
[00:41:54] And um, I was like, ah, that's kind of funny, but now it's like actually cracking me up
[00:42:01] Check all right leadership in general
[00:42:04] Well, importance of leadership. Why is leadership so important? The answer to this question is simple
[00:42:08] Without leadership, nothing requiring teamwork can be accomplished. Check
[00:42:12] Before you can talk effectively about leadership, you must know what leadership means
[00:42:16] There are almost as many definitions of leadership as there are leaders the definition that combines all the ideas is simply this
[00:42:23] the sum of those qualities of intellect human understanding and moral character that enables a person to inspire
[00:42:31] And control a group of people successfully
[00:42:36] Can we come up with a different word than control? Maybe just maybe we can use the word influence
[00:42:42] But they use the word control totally. Yeah, so again, we're talking garrison
[00:42:48] mindset like I'm gonna get my waiters to do exactly what I tell them to do because
[00:42:54] I have control over everything and I can control them
[00:42:56] Not a good sign. It's so funny, man. Yeah, they're I don't remember the exact saying but there's like this metaphor of like when someone's
[00:43:06] Um, sort of in the right area, but but but off the mark
[00:43:09] They they'll say something like and I wish I could remember it like you did in the reference
[00:43:13] You're shooting you're you're shooting on the right target, which means I'm on paper
[00:43:17] Yeah, but I'm missing the the the mark or whatever it's like
[00:43:21] If I'm way off I'm like shooting on somebody else's target like that's a real problem
[00:43:25] So I can't help it like
[00:43:27] I know what you're I you're you're sort of in the right like you're point at the right place
[00:43:32] But you're you're you're hitting all over the you're not off the target, right?
[00:43:36] But you were off the mark like we would say in the teams like you're on paper
[00:43:40] Okay, meaning like there's a bullseye. That's a little black thing. Yeah. Yeah, and then there's like rings around it
[00:43:44] Yes, you're not in the rings, but you're on the broader like big giant piece of paper at the butts at
[00:43:49] Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and island it's like, okay, you're
[00:43:51] Actually, you're you're you're on paper. I mean you're you're hitting it. Yeah
[00:43:56] We are off the mark. Yeah, you have shooting on the right target
[00:43:59] Which just means like if echoes like shooting at someone else's turn like, okay, we need like this is a whole different problem
[00:44:06] But I just like you are not hitting the target
[00:44:08] But but you're on the print. I know what you're trying to say, but you're just they're on paper
[00:44:12] But they got some they gotta make some adjustments and and that difference is is 20 of war. That's like, yeah
[00:44:18] Yeah, yeah, and that difference on being on paper versus being that's a kill shot versus
[00:44:24] Not, you know, you're you're all gonna die because you can't shoot straight totally man
[00:44:28] crazy
[00:44:30] Leadership and you know, it's funny. You're gonna see well, we're not gonna cover this whole manual
[00:44:34] But you're gonna see when they get back to sort of fundamentals
[00:44:39] It seems like they're trying to explore new territory here. That's what it seems like to me
[00:44:43] You can almost pitch like hey go back and come up with um, you know, like the best example you can
[00:44:48] Yeah, and they're like, okay. Okay. I remember this time when I was like the mess hall
[00:44:52] Like they're not remembering
[00:44:55] Rilotti or Fallujah or Baghdad or they're remembering
[00:44:59] Cooking or like yeah, which is fine
[00:45:01] But that's all they have in their repository to come out of like oh the scenarios that they want to use to illustrate these examples
[00:45:06] They don't have the examples. Yeah
[00:45:09] And what the problem here's the problem with those examples
[00:45:11] The problem isn't the example of being being logisticians in the Marine Corps and cooking in the Marine Corps. God bless you
[00:45:20] and in the Navy
[00:45:21] God bless you. The problem is they're not the dynamic situations that demand
[00:45:27] The type of leadership that we know to be effective
[00:45:31] So
[00:45:32] It just doesn't work as well
[00:45:34] If you are cooking in a combat environment
[00:45:36] You're talking about how these people need to make decisions on what what they're going to put forward like those are things that that's
[00:45:41] Decentralized command is going to is the only way it's going to work
[00:45:43] How are you going to get food to for four platoons or in four different locations right now doing like crazy 24 7 operate yet?
[00:45:51] Yeah, totally
[00:45:52] uh
[00:45:53] Elements of leadership this definition does not mention the military because leadership is not exclusive to the military
[00:45:59] We concur leadership is necessary wherever two or more people get together to perform a common task check
[00:46:04] The leader's primary purpose is to ensure that the job is done or in the words of the military that the mission has accomplished
[00:46:11] Three essential elements are needed to perform the role of a leader
[00:46:14] The leader is the first essential element the second element leadership is the group
[00:46:18] And the third is the situation and i'm not going to cover this because
[00:46:22] Again, this is something that i'd never seen before and it seemed like maybe somebody
[00:46:26] had an idea
[00:46:29] And the idea is that in these for leadership to happen
[00:46:32] There has to be a leader that has to be a group and there has to be a situation and that's what leadership is
[00:46:35] So i get it
[00:46:36] But we're not going to spend a bunch of time on it. Um, the objective of military leadership
[00:46:41] The united states military has the mission of keeping our country free to accomplish this mission
[00:46:45] Strong military leadership is essential marines are all potential leaders and military leadership should be important to everyone
[00:46:51] The objective or goal of military leadership is the creation and maintenance of an organization which will
[00:46:56] Loyally and willingly accomplish any reasonable task assigned or indicated and will initiate suitable action in the absence of orders
[00:47:09] So
[00:47:12] What's interesting is it's interesting that it says the goal of military leadership and it doesn't really say anything about
[00:47:20] War and combat that's number one
[00:47:22] Because that's what the military is for by the way is for war and combat and it can do a bunch of other things as well and it does
[00:47:30] Here's another thing willingly, loyally and willingly accomplish any reasonable task. You know what that should be
[00:47:37] it should be
[00:47:38] legal task, right
[00:47:41] Because we want to make sure that people are doing things that are
[00:47:44] within the code of contact within the within the law of land warfare
[00:47:48] And then they get it right at the end which is
[00:47:53] Suitable action in the absence of orders. That's like yeah the tiniest sliver of what we want. Yeah
[00:48:01] Even in the beginning
[00:48:02] Like I think it's that something like all marines are potential leaders like stop
[00:48:07] All marines are leaders. Yeah, just as something is marines are all potential leaders. Yeah. Nope. No everybody
[00:48:13] Every every marine is a leader. Yes every one of you. Yes. Yeah, totally
[00:48:18] It's like you said they're on paper. They're on the paper. We get what you're saying
[00:48:22] We hear what you're saying
[00:48:24] Three reasons for military leadership
[00:48:26] The first reason is the coordination of people and activities within a unit that is getting the right people to do the right job
[00:48:31] Okay, that's good
[00:48:33] Without such coordination capable people will not be assigned the right tasks. Okay
[00:48:37] The second reason for military leadership is to hold a military unit together a military unit is made up of people organized to
[00:48:44] accomplish a mission that requires a successful completion of a series of tasks
[00:48:50] When the unit is deployed a number of set tasks must be assigned to complete it again, it's all top down
[00:48:56] This is like this is the the top down manual
[00:49:02] The unit must be inspected to ensure readiness training schedules must be prepared in logistics plans
[00:49:07] Must be made up because it would be difficult for one leader to do all things alone
[00:49:11] Unit leaders are needed. Okay, so we want a little decentralized command. Thank you
[00:49:15] In the marine corps these unit leaders
[00:49:17] form a chain of command from a command on
[00:49:20] on down to the smallest unit so
[00:49:22] Third reason for military leadership is to ensure a unit success the unit achieve success by accomplishing the assigned mission
[00:49:31] Through demonstration motivation and hard work leaders ensure that all missions are accomplished
[00:49:35] A leader's failure to ensure that subordinates accomplish their task leads the failure of a unit to accomplish its mission
[00:49:40] And thus failure of the military service and carrying out a larger mission
[00:49:43] And if the military service fails our country and way of life are in danger, okay
[00:49:47] Somebody cool wrote that little section and didn't get too heavily edited by colonel pogh
[00:49:54] Responsibilities of leadership leadership implies responsibility
[00:49:59] Within the military structure there are two general areas of responsibility for every leader in every situation
[00:50:04] They are one the responsibility for ensuring that the mission is accomplished and two the responsibility to the subordinates
[00:50:10] Who work to accomplish that mission excellent, right?
[00:50:14] Completion of the mission is the first priority of leadership
[00:50:18] I swear I was just about to say I wish he had just reversed those two like in the previous paragraph
[00:50:24] Like the way he wrote it in order and here's the thing
[00:50:29] These these two
[00:50:30] the the men and the mission the subordinates and the mission taking care of the and and
[00:50:37] Putting the mission as the priority listen
[00:50:44] There are times and that's that's what the military does the military
[00:50:49] has to sacrifice
[00:50:51] Or at least put at risk their troops in order to accomplish the mission sometimes
[00:50:56] But if you continually put the mission above the troops you won't have any more troops
[00:51:04] And by the way, you'll probably have a mutiny as well
[00:51:07] Totally because if you're just throwing people to die to accomplish the mission
[00:51:13] Then they're going to rebel against you
[00:51:17] Yeah, I mean this is I mean
[00:51:19] This is an ongoing debate this conversation
[00:51:21] I've heard and and been a part of and listened to countless times all throughout my military career and even to now even in business
[00:51:29] You know this mission or people debate and I remember when I was
[00:51:33] I was out I was on an exchange with the Air Force when the Air Force like changed their motto
[00:51:37] And I think the motto became
[00:51:39] Models are wrong word
[00:51:41] not their motto, but
[00:51:42] Some guiding principle it said like yeah, like it's they ended up becoming like resolving to like mission first people always
[00:51:49] And and the way I I heard that was like
[00:51:53] Yeah, it's really hard to articulate
[00:51:56] This is more important than that. I mean obviously
[00:51:59] We have to achieve the mission
[00:52:02] The concept of the people if you want to say the people are the mission or the people are first
[00:52:08] It's actually in the vein of making sure the mission gets done
[00:52:11] It's not to subordinate the mission over the people it's to recognize is the number one thing I have
[00:52:16] For me to make sure that I'm successful in my mission, which you could say is the most important thing
[00:52:23] Is my people and if you can recognize that then all of a sudden you don't this isn't a debate of like what's more important than the other
[00:52:29] But if you get them out of order
[00:52:32] You undermine your ability to be successful in that mission because without your people it will not happen and in fact
[00:52:39] The best thing I can do to be successful in my mission
[00:52:43] Is put my people ahead of myself and the chance of me being successful in the mission go up. Yeah
[00:52:50] The other thing is
[00:52:52] When you accomplish your mission
[00:52:56] Even with sacrifice
[00:52:59] You should the it should be a win for everyone
[00:53:04] So if you're doing missions where there's not like every single person should be saying yes
[00:53:08] This is what I want to do because I want to take I want to protect our way of life
[00:53:11] I want to protect freedom. I want to protect my family. I want to protect my country in order to do that
[00:53:15] I want to do this mission
[00:53:17] So when you accomplish when you execute you plan and execute and accomplish a mission
[00:53:22] You have the mission is taking care of the people, right? That's what should be happening
[00:53:28] You shouldn't be going. Oh
[00:53:31] We're going to go and do this mission
[00:53:32] But no one in my platoon will benefit every single person in your platoon should benefit from executing a mission
[00:53:38] Because you're protecting their families their way of life
[00:53:40] Like that's what we're doing and and nowhere is that more true than in combat? Yeah, and that's that's how that manifests itself
[00:53:48] That's how it becomes to be so real when you're in a leadership position
[00:53:52] Is that concept of the meaning behind those mission is like you would never send your seals out on a mission
[00:53:59] That didn't do anything to accomplish the mission and in that same vein you wrote about it that is the
[00:54:04] In the core of that is the ultimate dichotomy is you care about your people enough
[00:54:07] That you know when you send them out there
[00:54:11] They might not come back and the balance of inside that but that reveals itself
[00:54:16] And magnifies itself so much in war
[00:54:18] That understanding of what am I actually having to go do and and I wouldn't waste
[00:54:22] An ounce of human life on something that doesn't actually help us win
[00:54:25] But if it does
[00:54:27] The risk of that is they don't come back
[00:54:29] Yeah
[00:54:32] Gets into this
[00:54:34] section here leadership styles
[00:54:36] There are two extremes in leadership styles
[00:54:39] The authoritarian
[00:54:41] autocratic and the persuasive
[00:54:43] democratic
[00:54:45] Each leader is free to choose a style of leadership
[00:54:51] Oh
[00:54:52] The choice of leadership style is influenced by situation
[00:54:56] By the situation the subordinates and the leaders personality
[00:54:59] Authoritarian style the authoritarian leader leads by personal control
[00:55:03] Characteristics of the authoritarian leader style are as file are as follows
[00:55:10] Let's support let's subordinates know he is in charge
[00:55:15] Makes subordinates into a team but remains outside the team membership
[00:55:20] Tells subordinates what to do and how to do it
[00:55:23] Makes all decisions without asking for suggestions
[00:55:27] And then there's the persuasive style the persuasive leader uses personality to lead and influence
[00:55:34] Subordinates characteristics of the per persuasive leadership style are as follows doesn't emphasize that he's in charge
[00:55:42] Develop subordinates into a team of which the leader is a member
[00:55:47] Asks subordinates to do their jobs
[00:55:50] Makes the decision
[00:55:52] But asks for listens to and sometimes takes subordinates advice
[00:56:00] Oh, it's beautiful. I like I like how it like even in the extreme example of the persuasive style
[00:56:07] It's sometimes going to take the advice
[00:56:09] You know and still have to make sure that he's making the decision. Yeah
[00:56:14] Um, so that's that's good stuff
[00:56:16] And it says that the two styles of leadership mentioned above are the extremes
[00:56:20] Each style has its bad and good points
[00:56:25] What are the good points of the first one like letting everyone know i'm in charge
[00:56:29] Making people in a team but not being a part of it telling supporters what to do and how to do it and making decisions without ever
[00:56:34] There's like
[00:56:38] Dang man, and how about like oh hey by the way you're jaco, you're free to pick what everyone you want to go
[00:56:43] However, you want to do this is up to like not one as good and one as bad. Yep. It just you know, you can pick which one
[00:56:49] Um
[00:56:51] As displayed in front of subordinates the authoritarian must be perfect or the subordinates will lose respect for the leader
[00:56:57] That's that's a great. That's you know, so hey look if you want to be authoritarian, obviously just be perfect
[00:57:02] That's you know, hey just go ahead and be perfect
[00:57:05] Uh, the persuasive leader must be very alert that subordinates won't play on friendships to get out of doing their work
[00:57:13] Oh gosh
[00:57:14] Very few marine leaders are strictly authoritarian or strictly persuasive. So we finally get a taste of some dichotic values
[00:57:20] Yeah
[00:57:21] Most of them fall somewhere between the two styles taking bits and pieces from each the pieces used from each style are determined
[00:57:26] By the individual leader the subordinates in the situation at the time
[00:57:31] Every marine from private to general needs leadership whether marines are aware of it or not
[00:57:35] They seek leadership and it goes into talk about these tangible
[00:57:38] Um reasons for needing leadership and intangible reasons for leadership the tangible things are like training instruction
[00:57:46] Physical necessities like your shelter and your food. Those are why you need leadership because you won't be able to get them on your own
[00:57:51] I guess
[00:57:53] Uh incentives if you want to fulfill the need for incentives and challenges. That's why you need leadership
[00:57:58] The intangible ones are you have the uh people have the the desire for adventure and security and belonging and recognition
[00:58:04] So those were not going to spend a bunch of times on those
[00:58:09] And we get to the leader's code
[00:58:10] Lesson six the leader's code to be an effective leader
[00:58:14] You must know your profession professional strengths and weaknesses
[00:58:17] The leader's code is a guideline to use in making an honest evaluation
[00:58:22] Of yourself in leadership after you determine these areas you can improve weak areas and exploit the strong areas
[00:58:28] I didn't think we were gonna have much this much fun with this. Well, here's a good example like the leader's code
[00:58:32] This is obviously a big deal
[00:58:34] And you've never heard of it before and it didn't make it out of this book
[00:58:39] It's not horrible
[00:58:42] but
[00:58:43] I become a leader by what I do is the leader's code. I become a leader by what I do
[00:58:46] I know my strengths and my weaknesses and I strive constantly for self-improvement
[00:58:49] I live by a moral code with which I set by an example that others can emulate
[00:58:55] I know my isn't there a little bit of arrogance in that statement. I'm just wondering
[00:58:58] Hey, you know what I'm just gonna I'll be over here just setting an example that you guys can emulate. You guys good?
[00:59:05] Uh, I know my job and I carry out the spirit as well as the letter of the orders I receive
[00:59:10] I take initiative and seek responsibilities and I face situations with boldness and confidence
[00:59:15] I estimate the situations and make my own decisions as to the best course of action
[00:59:20] No matter what the requirements, I stay with the job until the job is done. No matter what the results
[00:59:25] I assume full responsibilities. Cool
[00:59:27] I train my men as a team and lead them with tact and enthusiasm and with justice
[00:59:33] I command their confidence
[00:59:35] and their loyalty
[00:59:38] Interesting use of the word
[00:59:41] They know that I would not assign them any duty. I would myself would not perform check
[00:59:47] I see that they understand their orders and I follow through energetically to ensure
[00:59:52] That their duties are fully discharged. I keep my men informed check and I make their welfare one of my prime concerns
[01:00:02] Check
[01:00:04] These things I do self selflessly in fulfillment of the obligations of leadership for the achievement of the life of the group goal
[01:00:10] Check so make their welfare one of your prime concerns. This should be up there somewhere, you know
[01:00:14] Uh, and then you're supposed to do like a self evaluation according to this code
[01:00:22] Kind of an interesting concept and you know, look, I'm obviously I'm skipping through but they've got like suggested
[01:00:28] Activities that you can do at some time in your career
[01:00:31] You've been assigned a job which both you and your senior know you could do for some reason
[01:00:36] Your senior stood over your shoulder and kept telling you how to do it
[01:00:39] The senior did not trust you with the authority of that job. How did that make you feel?
[01:00:42] To make matters worse you discovered later that the job should not have been done in the way that you were instructed to do it
[01:00:47] And your supervisor seemed to hold it against you
[01:00:50] That he was gigged for the job. What can you learn from this gives you a bunch of little examples, which some of them are pretty good
[01:00:56] Um, and then it gives you a test and little exercises to do. So that's how you you complete these books
[01:01:06] Developing leaders
[01:01:08] Leadership traits and principles and this is where you get to sort of fundamental more
[01:01:15] Pragmatic stuff that is taken from
[01:01:18] More historical
[01:01:20] When you get into traits and principles, those are I'm guessing those are going to be like
[01:01:24] The traditional like ubiquitous marine corps JJ did type buckle those type of things that that have stood the test of time
[01:01:30] Yeah, uh nature of leadership traits leadership traits are individual characteristics proper
[01:01:35] Understanding of the 14 leadership traits will help you gain nor respect confidence willing obedience
[01:01:40] and cooperation of your Marines
[01:01:44] Check
[01:01:46] The purpose of leadership traits the purpose of the 14 leadership traits is to help you set guidelines for yourself by evaluating your own personality
[01:01:52] And with respect to your leadership traits you can find personal strengths and weaknesses of leadership by following traits as a guide
[01:01:58] You can exploit your strong traits and develop your weaker leadership traits and then talks about leadership principles as well
[01:02:05] And here's the 14 leadership traits
[01:02:09] Number one is integrity and it gives you a definition of what integrity is but then it tells you sort of how to execute integrity
[01:02:18] As leader you must have on question integrity honesty a sense of duty moral principles must be placed above all else
[01:02:24] You must be totally trustworthy for support and staff faith in you and for your senior staff confidence in you
[01:02:29] The trait of integrity is developed by following four practices. Here's these four practice
[01:02:32] Practice absolute honesty and be trustworthy at all times not only with yourself
[01:02:36] But with others never shade the truth
[01:02:38] Be accurate and truthful in all statements. Don't tell your supervisors only what you think they want to hear
[01:02:44] Tell it as is but tactfully stand for what you believe
[01:02:48] Even if your belief is an unpopular one place honesty and duty above all else
[01:02:54] So that's the number one thing integrity obviously very important next one is knowledge
[01:02:58] Nothing will gain confidence in respect of your subordinates more than quickly demonstrating knowledge
[01:03:03] And it talks about correspondence courses and reading newspapers for current events and having discussions with experienced people
[01:03:08] And it gives you the the things to do read all kinds of articles and take courses listen to experienced people ask questions
[01:03:18] The next trait is courage
[01:03:21] Courage the physical and mental control of fear is essential to leadership
[01:03:25] Courage is a mental quality that allows you to recognize fear yet enables you to meet danger or opposition with calmness and firmness
[01:03:32] Courage is a quality of mind that gives you personal control
[01:03:34] Enabling you to accept responsibility and act in a dangerous situation
[01:03:39] You show physical courage when you continue to perform in the face of personal danger
[01:03:43] Physical courage also means controlling your emotions and you show moral courage when you stand up for and enforce decisions
[01:03:49] That are right even in the face of popular disfavor admitting errors takes real moral courage
[01:03:56] To develop the leadership trait of courage you need to do the following it's funny that
[01:04:00] admitting errors
[01:04:02] Is put on the pedestal of needing real moral courage that kind of shows you the mental attitude
[01:04:08] Whoever's right this I'd be like hey brah. I mean like that's like 101
[01:04:11] There's no moral courage and said hey, you know what I made I made a mistake here for this duty
[01:04:14] He's like bro. You need so much moral courage to say I was wrong
[01:04:20] Uh
[01:04:22] This is a good one though place duty over your personal desires or feelings
[01:04:27] Look for and accept responsibilities
[01:04:29] Speak in a calm tone keep an order order new lists orderliness in your thought process
[01:04:37] And not make any physical danger or hardship bigger than it really is
[01:04:40] Stand for what is right even in the face of popular disfavor
[01:04:44] Never blame others for your mistakes check recognize fear but control your emotions. So there you go courage
[01:04:52] Decisiveness
[01:04:54] I think we might I mean we might even just call it like you never you ever been in a game where you're like, all right, dude
[01:05:01] Hey, we just need to walk away right now like we're calling the game. This one might do it to dave burk. It might do it to me
[01:05:06] I don't know
[01:05:07] So here we go next thing is decisiveness
[01:05:10] Decisiveness is the ability to weigh all the facts in a situation analyze the facts and then arrive at a sound and timely decision
[01:05:18] but
[01:05:19] Before you make a decision you must be sure that you have all the facts
[01:05:26] Decisiveness is largely a matter of practice and experience to develop the trade of decisiveness
[01:05:32] You should develop so here's why we're laughing at that
[01:05:35] There is no situation
[01:05:37] Where you have all the facts doesn't exist. I mean even the word facts is a strong word to use in combat facts
[01:05:42] Is it is a word you probably shouldn't even use
[01:05:44] Yeah, just insert combat into that scenario and no combat leader would
[01:05:53] Would they just wouldn't articulate that way because all you're doing is recognizing you have to make decisions
[01:05:59] With the void of all sorts of useful information. That's just the nature of it. Forget about facts
[01:06:04] Just like basic scenario understanding of what's going on which is why decentralized command is so important because the close you are the more
[01:06:10] Yeah, this one is almost like maybe you're off the target a little bit like
[01:06:17] I'll give it to you. This is like you just you didn't even hit the berm
[01:06:21] You missed
[01:06:24] You had a misfire
[01:06:26] So interesting, but you know when you look at the military
[01:06:30] in the
[01:06:31] 80s and 90s
[01:06:33] and
[01:06:34] Look, you but you and I were both in the 90s where this isn't me pointing the finger. This is me
[01:06:38] I mean, this is what we did was hey, we need to know everything
[01:06:42] We would plan these big missions with a 96 hour planning cycle. That was the standard in the SEAL teams
[01:06:48] Did you guys have a standard? I actually think there was I I know that phrase the 96 hour planning
[01:06:52] 96 hour planning so if you wanted to go conduct a direct action mission, you need to have a 96 hour planning cycle
[01:07:00] I have literally conducted direct action missions with seven minutes
[01:07:05] And go and launch like that's what we got to so and if you think I had
[01:07:11] Quote all the facts bro. We had like a rough grid of where the target might be
[01:07:18] Update us as we move
[01:07:19] Well, we had I mean, I think the term qrf is somewhat universal like the quicker reaction force
[01:07:24] We had a stand a standing qrf all the time which had a very short
[01:07:28] After five minutes we had some number like it was five minutes
[01:07:30] It was some at some period of time from the time that got triggered to launch the qrf was a very very short period of time
[01:07:35] minutes whatever it was
[01:07:37] The most likelihood of direct action
[01:07:40] Happened on those like if you will launch on a qrf you are going to get into some
[01:07:44] fight somehow
[01:07:46] And you had no you didn't there's nope
[01:07:48] I mean it best you like you're like yelling at the turret gunner who might not even be your turret gunner because he's not actually
[01:07:53] Like he's in the chow hall. He's in the chow hall like dude. We got a launch and so even inside that and listen
[01:07:59] I somebody wrote this and and and and that guy might be listening to this best intention
[01:08:04] Best intentions fully in every way as I hear this. I keep telling myself. I understand what you're saying
[01:08:11] That said
[01:08:13] And I don't want this to become like a lesson of oh if you're not in combat you don't understand this
[01:08:17] That's not the point at all
[01:08:18] The actually the opposite is true is the point behind that is the recognition of all these things that you feel like you want to control
[01:08:25] When you get in the dynamic environment in business in raising your kids and having a relationship with somebody
[01:08:32] And in combat and all things is the recognition is that
[01:08:35] You can't do any of these things. You can't do any of these things
[01:08:38] So I don't want to be like dave's over here like oh because I was in war. I know all this stuff
[01:08:42] It's the recognition of how much less you can dictate and how much more you have to rely on the people around you
[01:08:49] Which is why I think the frustration or some of it is the humor coming out of like bro
[01:08:53] Did you just say control like you can't control what they do?
[01:08:56] Did you just say dictate you can't dictate to them what they do?
[01:09:00] And and I think inside that is why I'm laughing at this
[01:09:02] But in all seriousness the intention behind that I understand that
[01:09:06] And I have this sense of like
[01:09:09] You're like pulling someone from the boot camp scenario and starting to like ease them into the the real marine corps and listen boot camp at ocs
[01:09:17] Those are authoritarian experiences
[01:09:19] Nobody's like hey. Hey choco
[01:09:21] What would nobody's doing nobody's asking what you want to do and it's almost like they're pulling them into
[01:09:28] Just like a step away from that
[01:09:30] My take on this is as you as you lead and train your people and lead and train yourself
[01:09:35] Just behave act teach and train the way you're supposed to without the sense that they're not capable of understanding or they're not capable of of
[01:09:43] Embracing the right type of leadership. You don't need to moderate
[01:09:48] Moving away from authoritarianism. You should say don't be an authoritarian leader
[01:09:50] Here's the reasons why not. Hey, do what you want. However, you want to do it. It's it's not good leadership
[01:09:56] but if all you have is boot camp and do you want Marines to to
[01:10:01] To be responsible or yeah, I do. I want my reins to do what I tell them to do
[01:10:04] I understand why you're saying that but how you make that happen isn't like
[01:10:08] Telling them what to do
[01:10:10] So the gap that's inside there for me is the connection between where they might have come from and I'm just assuming you pulled us from boot camp
[01:10:16] Which is not the real world
[01:10:17] It's not how you want to lead people and somehow trying to meet like
[01:10:21] Moderate them into the real Marine Corps. They've done. I'm guessing obviously
[01:10:25] uh, I think jim web
[01:10:28] James Webb's son, you know, he writes articles and he sent me an article that they've made some like significant changes in
[01:10:34] Marine Corps infantry training and
[01:10:37] They sounded outstanding and what it sounded like was it has shifted towards like what I when I ran training
[01:10:44] What we did which was like really decentralized like it was going to be mayhem
[01:10:48] It was going to be chaos and they're now hitting these Marines with those type of scenarios
[01:10:52] So that they're even more prepared. So that's a great thing to hear and um
[01:11:00] You know again, it's just
[01:11:02] It's interesting how we're going to drift right it's it's when you're in environment
[01:11:08] Where you can get away with things you'll drift towards getting away with them. Yeah, and it's important
[01:11:15] This is almost like a really good reminder. Like you said, it's like not like somebody wrote this with bad intentions, but
[01:11:22] um
[01:11:24] This is what this is what we're drawn to and the and the authoritarian mind is drawn to this even more
[01:11:32] and
[01:11:33] The orderly mind is drawn to this even more and the highly disciplined which as you know, obviously discipline is like my favorite
[01:11:41] Characteristic and if you have too much discipline, you're gonna fall apart in combat because this is not a disciplined environment combat
[01:11:48] It's not a discipline. You need discipline in combat
[01:11:50] But things aren't gonna happen the way you want them to happen
[01:11:53] And they're not gonna happen the way you expect them to happen and the marine that's been obeying you
[01:11:59] Because he was scared of getting written up
[01:12:01] He's not gonna listen to you now because you're telling them to go across the street where there's uh freaking
[01:12:06] You know machine gun fire going down and he's not going. Yeah
[01:12:10] Or he can't hear you
[01:12:12] Or he didn't you know his radio got shot like there's a million things that are gonna happen
[01:12:15] Yeah, and you're setting him up to fail too. Yep. So them the less you can do
[01:12:22] As a leader and the more you allow your team to do the better they're gonna perform
[01:12:26] So you're not gonna have all the facts
[01:12:32] Uh and now it says this form the habit of considering several points of view for every problem
[01:12:37] That's a good call learn from the mistakes of others. That's a good call
[01:12:41] Force yourself to make a decision and then check the decision to see if it's sound. Well, that's a good call
[01:12:45] Talk to people and practice making your conversations logical and clear. That's a good call. So those are all those are all positive
[01:12:52] Dependability a dependable leader is one who can be relied on to carry out
[01:12:57] Any mission to the best of his or her personality cool
[01:13:01] um
[01:13:03] It says the steps are practiced honest thinking
[01:13:08] avoid making excuses
[01:13:11] We're no stronger than avoid we can actually say do not
[01:13:16] Uh accomplish the assigned task
[01:13:18] Regardless of the obstacles cool always be prompt to perform all tasks the best of your ability. Yeah check be careful about making promises and personal deals
[01:13:27] But when you have made them build a reputation on keeping them. What kind of personal deals are we talking about here?
[01:13:31] I'm not 100 sure maybe that's like on the civilian sector. They're talking about like I'll sell you this car for 900 bucks
[01:13:40] Initiative
[01:13:42] The trait of initiative is key to being a successful leader initiative is simply seeing what has to be done and doing it without having to be told to do it. Yes
[01:13:51] As a marine nco, you must develop initiative not only in yourself, but in your subordinates as well. Yes
[01:13:56] Your marines will develop trust and respect when you take prompt action and meeting new situations
[01:14:02] You develop initiative in subordinates to develop initiative in subordinates
[01:14:06] You should assign tasks according to the subordinates ability and experience
[01:14:10] But once a task is assigned don't tell subordinates how to do it unless they ask for suggestions by allowing subordinates to do the job
[01:14:17] It not only develops initiative, but frees you to do other tasks. Yes. We nailed one dude
[01:14:22] We nailed one good job
[01:14:24] closely related to initiative is resourcefulness and goes on about that
[01:14:28] Another side of the another side of initiative is the ability to anticipate simply stated. This is the ability to foresee situations before they arise
[01:14:35] This prior knowledge gives you a chance to plan for the event and have preparations ready deal with situations. Great
[01:14:44] And then just talks about it giving you an advantage. So here's the here's the steps develop and maintain a state of mental and physical alertness look for tasks to do
[01:14:52] For a lot tasks to be done without being told to do them practice thinking and planning ahead anticipate situations before they're great
[01:14:59] The next one is tact
[01:15:01] Tacked is the ability to deal with people without causing friction or giving offense
[01:15:06] More simply stated tact is the ability to say and do the right thing at the right time. You must
[01:15:14] Use tact not only when dealing with seniors, but with subordinates as well
[01:15:18] To successfully use tack you must be courteous
[01:15:21] Because courtesy given will be returned
[01:15:24] It is important that courtesy not be misunderstood as brown nosing inexperienced
[01:15:28] Inexperienced NCOs may feel wrongly that politeness in a military command is a sign of weakness
[01:15:34] All orders given will be obeyed, but those given with courtesy will be obeyed willingly
[01:15:41] Even in emergency situations, I'm gonna get I'm digging myself a hole in the Marine Corps and I'm chuckling too much. I'm sorry Marines
[01:15:48] Uh, but quite honestly, I haven't worked with a Marine that's um in this mode
[01:15:53] I was gonna save my life
[01:15:54] I don't think you have any issues because the Marines that are listening to this are like
[01:15:57] They're like they're on board
[01:16:00] All orders will be obeyed
[01:16:03] Good luck with that. Usually you will find that
[01:16:06] Usually you will find that a calm and courteous though firm manner of speech gets the best results
[01:16:11] Tacked becomes very important when criticizing a subordinate lack of tack can crush a marine spirit an initiative criticism can be
[01:16:17] Criticism must be made in a manner that points out a weakness
[01:16:20] In the subordinates action, but still encourages the subordinate to continue to show initiative cool
[01:16:24] To develop leadership trade of tact you must do the following be considerate develop the habit of cooperating us in spirit as well as fact
[01:16:33] Study the actions of senior NCOs who enjoy a reputation for being able to handle marine successfully
[01:16:38] Check yourself for tolerance and patience if it fault correct your own habits
[01:16:42] Apply the golden rule do unto others as you would have them do unto you
[01:16:46] Let no marine superior or subordinate exceed you in courtesy and consideration
[01:16:51] for the feelings of others
[01:16:53] Cool
[01:16:54] That's not a bad goal try and be nicer to everybody than they are to you
[01:16:58] Echo charles you're pretty successful at that when you're pretty nice guy. Oh, I like to think so. Yes, sir
[01:17:03] I don't think I've ever seen you be mean to know somebody
[01:17:07] Yeah, I don't know it's been a long time. I feel like
[01:17:13] I don't know what else to tell you good courteous marine over there
[01:17:17] Next one is justice justice is fairness
[01:17:21] um
[01:17:22] Search your mental attitudes to determine prejudice
[01:17:25] Seek to rid your mind of them learn to be absolutely impartial when imposing punishment or giving rewards
[01:17:33] Search out the facts of each case
[01:17:35] Study human behavior be honest with yourself recognize those subordinates worthy of commendation or reward
[01:17:40] Next one is enthusiasm
[01:17:43] Explain and I'm going to jump them through some stuff explain why the mission must be accomplished whenever you can do so
[01:17:49] How about almost always?
[01:17:51] No one believe in your work tackle all tasks with a cheerful can do attitude believe in your mission no matter what it is
[01:17:58] Hmm
[01:17:59] Look, you got to be careful with that one. What is your mission?
[01:18:03] Why are we doing it if it doesn't make sense man? Ask some questions
[01:18:09] Ask some questions
[01:18:11] bearing
[01:18:12] bearing is a marine's general appearance carriage
[01:18:14] Deportment and conduct by your bearing you establish a standard for your periods of periods and subordinates
[01:18:20] Your appearance should show confidence competence alertness and energy your clothing equipment should be neat and clean at all times
[01:18:25] Your voice and action should be under control
[01:18:27] Few things can steady the morale of troops like a leader who with full knowledge of the difficulties of the situation
[01:18:31] Neither looks or acts worried when speaking to marines talking short plain sentences
[01:18:35] Never talk down marines or allow sarcasm to enter the conversation vulgar speech frequent loss of temper
[01:18:41] Like it says frequent loss of temper like occasionally go for it
[01:18:46] And an irritable nature show lack of self-confidence that subordinates easily see they react to the lack of self-confidence with resentment or even in
[01:18:54] Subordination avoid criticizing the entire group of marines for the failings of a few
[01:18:59] Those who didn't want those who didn't do anything wrong will resent it
[01:19:03] Your bearing should show dignity and control of both your emotions and your actions dignity shows pride and confidence in yourself
[01:19:09] and the ability of your marines emotional control shows that you
[01:19:13] have
[01:19:14] Any situation well in hand to develop and improve your bearing you should do the following
[01:19:19] Practice control of your voice facial expressions and gestures
[01:19:23] Demonstrate calmness sincerity and understanding master your emotions so that you can control them and they do not control you
[01:19:30] Speak simply and directly
[01:19:32] Never reprimand subordinates and spell
[01:19:34] Observe the study leaders who enjoy reputed
[01:19:36] No one in here regulations
[01:19:39] Demand the highest of standards for yourself and your subordinates avoid indiscriminate course behavior profanity and vulgarity
[01:19:46] They didn't see full metal jacket, maybe it is amazing like I went to ocs
[01:19:50] And those marines those marine drill instructors they never swore it. I mean, but I mean they probably swore five times or something like that
[01:19:56] What about the basic school?
[01:19:58] I mean to be quite honest like I
[01:20:01] After oc I mean even partially at ocs
[01:20:03] Like the best leaders that I worked with were were
[01:20:07] Professional and they they were articulate and they spoke professionally if I look back and like the guys that I looked up to the most
[01:20:13] They were professional
[01:20:15] that said
[01:20:19] The the use of vulgarity was I would say like commonplace
[01:20:23] Um, but even at the basic school
[01:20:26] Uh amongst the marine females going through the basic school. Yeah, I was in an integrated company like I think one of the first one in the
[01:20:32] while
[01:20:33] amongst like the marines
[01:20:35] Was everybody was cursing all the time. What about the instructor stuff? No, that's what I'm saying like the yeah
[01:20:41] Um, and I think what my point of that was it wasn't something that was policed. It was something that was I think demonstrated
[01:20:49] and
[01:20:50] Like I don't remember my platoon commander a guy who I respect I don't I have no record and it could have happened
[01:20:56] But I don't have a recollection of him cursing and I have a recollection of some and some not but like the lieutenants like I think I
[01:21:01] Cur I mean we curse all the time. Yeah. Yeah, but the staff did correct. That's the main thing
[01:21:05] That's right. Yeah, the example that was being shown
[01:21:07] It's like we weren't emulating that example the staff even though CS were pretty professional people in terms of not cursing and just
[01:21:15] Being articulate well spoken leaders was valued. Is it hard to get a billet like as an OCS instructor?
[01:21:21] Not OCS. No, I think tbs is a more
[01:21:25] I don't know if demanding is the right word and this is you know, however many years now, but
[01:21:28] No, tbs was a much harder thing than OCS back in the day to get a job there
[01:21:34] Yeah, the
[01:21:36] Marine drill instructors at OCS for me had like a their whole vocabulary of non swear words. We're words. Totally. Yeah
[01:21:44] That's a dagom friggin. I that's I remember hearing all that and and that that stayed true
[01:21:48] But amongst your peers like it's like you didn't follow that example, but yeah, yeah
[01:21:53] What's tb tbs the basic school? Yeah, so every marine go ahead
[01:21:58] No, I say you mean you got it
[01:21:59] We talked about earlier every marine no matter what your job is going to be pilot infantry or everything in between
[01:22:05] Goes through a six month course as an officer
[01:22:08] Which gives you a little bit of exposure to basically every potential job out there everything from supply to logistics to communication to artillery
[01:22:15] to tanks to infantry
[01:22:17] So every marine officer has a little sense of all the things the marine corps does
[01:22:22] so even a pilot knows what infantry men are doing and the marine corps places places a
[01:22:29] big premium on that concept every marine is a rifleman and the investment they make as a marine and even if you know
[01:22:35] You're destined to go be an aviator you go through the basic school like all marines do it's like general education
[01:22:41] Yeah, kind of like that. Yeah, so you get enough of exposure to do what we talked about before which was just
[01:22:47] Understand what might be going on
[01:22:49] You're not going to be an expert in any of it, but you do get exposure to all of it, which is awesome
[01:22:53] It paid huge dividends to me. We used to joke about it like
[01:22:56] The last time I shot a rifle before I went to ramadi was at the basic school
[01:23:01] Which is crazy. So that's like what 12 years 13 years or something basic school 94 ramadi o6
[01:23:06] 12 years. Yep, and you hadn't shot a rifle
[01:23:09] I had not squeezed the trigger on a rifle since the day I sided in my m4. I don't know
[01:23:15] couple months before I deployed
[01:23:17] Dang, but I had done it. So I had just enough like, you know, the basic fundamentals to understand it
[01:23:22] But you know, I've done everything from like 50 cows and
[01:23:26] 24 m60s of the time and mark 19s and and all that stuff that is so jacked up. It's crazy. Like like think about me
[01:23:33] Totally dude, like I had spent like literally my entire adult life just doing that
[01:23:38] You know how many millions of rounds I'd shot maybe a rethinking bringing Dave on all those missions
[01:23:42] I kicked you in my mind. I was looking at you like, hey, he's
[01:23:47] But he's a square-dweller, but he's a square-dweller. I mean rifle at heart
[01:23:50] Yeah, I shot the pistol every year for however many years, but I didn't touch the rifle. Which way does the magazine go?
[01:23:57] Oh, that's it was a steep learning curve for me to get back
[01:24:00] The jowl was like a workup. How did you get ready? How many rounds did you shoot before you went on deployment?
[01:24:05] Dude, remember man, so I got to my Angleco unit basically October of 05
[01:24:10] And I spent the first I don't know month basically doing the tactical air, you know TACP
[01:24:17] All that was I was just gonna be in Japan for a year
[01:24:20] And then around Christmas time like hey, we need volunteer, you know, I got a volunteer for that
[01:24:24] I volunteered for that job. Like hey, we need volunteers to go to Iraq. I'm like, well go to Iraq, you know, you know the whole story behind
[01:24:29] Yeah, but it wasn't till that was in January. That was in December. So for Christmas. It was like, hey, honey
[01:24:34] You know that was when I kind of broke the news like this. You were newlywed at that time. We had just gotten married. That's right. Hey, sorry
[01:24:41] So we go on Christmas to come back in January. She was thinking like maybe a trip to Japan
[01:24:44] Totally
[01:24:45] It's like this would be the blast go to see the Kota Khan. That's right. Yeah judo players. Where you at? We we go
[01:24:52] Christmas vacation the holidays whatever and in January they're like, hey all the iraq marines are going to camp lejeune
[01:24:59] So I got to camp lejeune
[01:25:01] January, I don't call it like the 10th or whatever it was and I deployed February
[01:25:05] 20th, so I had five weeks
[01:25:08] Five weeks. Do you have any?
[01:25:10] Not a lot
[01:25:11] Not a lot a little
[01:25:13] I like it was like bz ode and then I did a couple of courses, but you know to keep in mind too like
[01:25:19] I use my rifle obviously. Yeah, but my primary weapon there was the radio and you know, clearly I was I was much more inclined to do that
[01:25:26] um, but dude, I don't
[01:25:28] I I I wasn't shooting rounds of that rifle at all hardly ever did you do immediate action drills?
[01:25:36] Like with your team
[01:25:38] yeah, like
[01:25:41] I did very little of that now. I had a couple of pretty squared away staff and co's you must have been so stoked rolling out with us
[01:25:49] You must have been like hell. Yeah
[01:25:51] Like these guys have got I was mostly I was more and I you know, I look back and talk to life about it. I was mostly stoked
[01:25:59] That you were cool with me coming with you like
[01:26:02] That even to this day look back like the fact that they had enough confidence in me and my guys
[01:26:07] So we could be with you guys was pretty awesome for me
[01:26:11] Now your guys these are these are like infantry marines that get assigned to anglico. How does that work? Well?
[01:26:17] it's it's
[01:26:19] My guys were almost 100 artillery
[01:26:22] Really? Yeah, just most anglico is artillery
[01:26:25] They're not all there. There's because they serve as forward observers at some point
[01:26:29] There's exactly right that experience with calling an air. Uh, I'm sorry calling for fire artillery call for fire
[01:26:35] Um, and forward observers things like that
[01:26:37] It's not some rule that it has to be artillery, but the thing that was crazy though is my team my so I had a 13 man team
[01:26:43] My five of us that I stayed because we ended up doing missions as a small unit leader. I had three teams
[01:26:49] I was one of those three teams
[01:26:51] every one of my guys was
[01:26:54] artillery
[01:26:55] And it never deployed
[01:26:58] So it's kind of crazy
[01:27:01] That's wild. I'm glad you didn't know this back then
[01:27:04] I didn't either
[01:27:06] Damn you guys were pros though like we did all right man. Yeah, we did all right. That's freaking legit. It was pretty cool
[01:27:14] Uh to be with you guys
[01:27:18] Yeah, I mean that's wild except like thinking like randomly you and I would be just like out in a building somewhere in ramadi
[01:27:26] And you're like telling him like hey, what do you got you're like telling me what's going on? I'm just
[01:27:30] thinking you're a rifleman
[01:27:32] Oh
[01:27:35] That's pretty awesome. Uh next thing endurance
[01:27:40] Endurance like courage has two distinct parts physical endurance means being able to function effectively when tired or in pain
[01:27:46] Mental endurance is the ability to think straight when fatigue distressed or in pain
[01:27:51] Demonstrated endurance brings
[01:27:53] Respect from subordinates lack of endurance fails not only to set a proper example for subordinates to follow
[01:27:58] But can also be mistaken for a lack of courage
[01:28:03] You can increase both mental and physical endurance by doing the following
[01:28:08] Avoiding excesses that lower both physical and mental stamina
[01:28:13] keeping physically fit
[01:28:15] By exercise and proper diet check learning to stand discomfort by undertaking hard physical tasks check
[01:28:21] Forcing yourself to study when you are tired and your mind is sluggish check
[01:28:25] Finishing every job regardless of obstacles. So there you go. Good to go. We support
[01:28:32] On set next one is unselfishness
[01:28:36] The unselfish leader is one who gives credit where credit is due
[01:28:39] Unselfishness means not taking advantage of a situation for personal gain at the expense of others
[01:28:44] No subordinate can respect an nco who takes credit for jobs well done and blames other when performance is poor
[01:28:50] check
[01:28:51] An unselfish marine nco will ensure subordinates needs come before personal needs check
[01:28:58] To develop your trade of unselfishness you should do the following see that subordinates have the best
[01:29:03] That can be obtained for them under the circumstances try to understand the problems
[01:29:09] military or personal of subordinates, um,
[01:29:12] David Belavia he told he told that story about um, his like
[01:29:16] Battalion sergeant major and they're like out in the street and his battalion sergeant major has an old
[01:29:22] m16 with iron sights on it
[01:29:24] And everyone else has got like the high speed stuff
[01:29:27] And he like that's what David Belavia remembered is that his command sergeant major who was killed in combat
[01:29:33] What he remembered about him is like he wouldn't take the good weapon
[01:29:38] you know
[01:29:38] that's
[01:29:39] That like I remember thinking about that after he was on the podcast and I was like
[01:29:43] That's what he remembered of all the things you remember you remember a bunch of other things
[01:29:47] But like think of how much that stands out. He like this guy
[01:29:50] He wouldn't take the good weapons from the troops even though he's the senior enlisted man in a freaking battalion
[01:29:56] It might even have been a regimental sergeant major
[01:29:59] but um, just awesome
[01:30:02] Put the comfort pleasures and recreation of your subordinates before your own
[01:30:05] In the field your marines eat before you do give credit to subordinates for jobs well done check
[01:30:11] Loyalty
[01:30:13] Loyalty is the quality of faithfulness to your country marine corps seniors and subordinates
[01:30:20] Demonstrated loyalty wins respects and confidence
[01:30:24] Loyalty means supporting the views and methods the unit employs, but doesn't mean becoming a yes man. Thank you. So there you go
[01:30:32] We get a little bit of you know
[01:30:34] Some of vietnam dude, you got a desert storm guy. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah
[01:30:37] Yeah, yeah
[01:30:41] To develop loyalty you should do the following be quick to defend subordinates from abuse. Thank you
[01:30:48] Never give the slightest hint of disagreement with orders from seniors when giving instruction to subordinates
[01:30:54] Now I made a little note here
[01:30:57] Because there was a I don't know if you remember this the very first trait that got covered was integrity
[01:31:04] and it says
[01:31:05] Be accurate truthful in all statements
[01:31:09] Don't tell your superiors only what you think they want to hear tell it as it is but tactfully
[01:31:14] Practice absolute honesty at all times not only with yourself, but with others never shade the truth
[01:31:21] So now just fyi
[01:31:24] We're saying never give the slightest hint of disagreement with orders from seniors when giving instructions to subordinates
[01:31:29] So it's like we understand the caveat that we're throwing on there. Here's the problem. This is not a good plan
[01:31:35] It's not
[01:31:37] First of all because the team will see through it
[01:31:39] Because you're telling them to do something that doesn't make sense
[01:31:41] You know it doesn't make sense and if you know it doesn't make sense they're all gonna know it doesn't make sense
[01:31:45] Okay, maybe they all know but you got a platoon of 40 guys
[01:31:49] 12 of them know nine of them know nine of them are looking at you like you're a jackass and we don't believe you
[01:31:54] So how do we make this happen?
[01:31:56] It goes back to earlier when we're when we're talking and we develop a relationship with our boss so that we can say
[01:32:02] Hey boss, can you explain to me why we're doing this and if you have a good relationship with them and something doesn't make sense
[01:32:07] Either they can explain it to you so it does make sense or you can explain the ramifications that are going to occur
[01:32:12] And why this is a bad idea and if you still get the shut up and do what I told you you go down to the troops
[01:32:18] You don't lie to them you go down troops and say hey fellas. Look. I pushed back against the boss. Here's what we're doing
[01:32:23] Here's why we're doing it. We're gonna do the best of our ability and here's how we're gonna mitigate whatever problems might occur
[01:32:28] That's what you do
[01:32:33] I'm even thinking you know hack worth going on those patrols
[01:32:37] Like there's even in that the whole the whole spectrum that's inside there of like all right
[01:32:40] Jocko is the worst boss in the world. He's gonna order my guys to do something to get him killed
[01:32:45] I can I can fall on my sword which is like the classic
[01:32:49] It's like the um
[01:32:50] What's the word I'm like the most romantic like oh that look Dave's gonna fall on his sword
[01:32:54] I keep reminding people you know what happens when you fall on your sword you you fall on your sword
[01:32:57] You die you die that's not good and then Dave gets replaced with
[01:33:01] Echoes like whatever you say boss and in that case like all right. We're gonna go on that patrol
[01:33:07] These are dumb
[01:33:08] So what I'm gonna go outside the wire. I'm gonna set up this bim come on. Hey, we got no contact today
[01:33:12] So even you've been talking even the spectrum inside there
[01:33:14] But the thing of it is that you I think the key takeaway from that because the truth of the matter is most of the time
[01:33:20] You're not getting these orders gonna get your people killed. No that's such a rare like an extreme example
[01:33:24] Most of the time it's just like dumb
[01:33:27] Okay, nobody's gonna die. It's not gonna ruin the company, but it's dumb inside there
[01:33:33] If I come back and go hey, jog. Hey guys, this is the best idea ever boss is awesome and we're gonna go do this
[01:33:40] I'm gonna lose so much leadership capital leader which credibility, but I can't say hey listen
[01:33:44] I know this can be frustrating sometimes. I know sometimes it makes sense
[01:33:47] Here's what we're gonna do. Here's why let me explain it
[01:33:50] And if it's not gonna get anybody killed for any risk
[01:33:52] They'll still do it, but the reason they're doing it is not undying obedience to your leadership. It's actually that you are
[01:33:58] Being honest with them. You have integrity got integrity exactly
[01:34:01] And so even that that deck that definitions how they're even understanding that there's a balance even inside that concept
[01:34:08] I remember uh
[01:34:10] Getting told there's two two two good examples of this one of them is from um
[01:34:16] Bandit brothers when they send the recon across the river someone gets killed
[01:34:20] They come back the next night the colonel's like hey send someone send another recon tonight
[01:34:24] And he's like hey, I don't think that's a good idea. He's like shut up and do it
[01:34:25] He says okay, and they go sit in the basement of the towing and drink wine
[01:34:29] There was I heard this story when I was a new guy that you know in vietnam
[01:34:33] These guys got told hey, you're gonna go out and do a patrol in this area and they or set up an ambush in this area
[01:34:37] And they're like hey, that's a bad area. There's not gonna be anything and they're like no shut up and do it
[01:34:40] And he goes okay cool. Yep. Whatever the platoon commander says cool got it
[01:34:43] They went patrolled, you know 200 yards outside the gate
[01:34:46] Sat in the bushes for five hours patrol back in hey no no contact didn't say anything
[01:34:51] Yeah, I just said that associated with hackworth, but that I'm misplacing that it's the story
[01:34:55] It's that story that you told of like okay, I don't know why I connected to hackworth
[01:34:59] But it was that those patrols of like boss says to do this. I'm gonna go do this, but I'm actually not really doing it
[01:35:04] Yeah, that's that's exactly what it was it came from from the story you told right and that isn't like look that is
[01:35:10] Now we're now we're starting to develop some issues, right? Yep. Now we got some issues
[01:35:14] We got some issues because now we're
[01:35:17] We're giving false information up the chain of command
[01:35:20] So now we're in just as bad of a spot as good doing down. So that is not the right answer totally
[01:35:27] The right answer is to develop that relationship
[01:35:29] But what you're talking about you said use the term in extremist people gonna get killed
[01:35:33] So if we talk in an extremist people gonna get killed
[01:35:36] I'm not gonna get my guys killed if it doesn't make sense. Yeah, so but that like you said this is not like
[01:35:42] Oh another day in the military got ordered to do something that's gonna get about that doesn't I got asked this the other day
[01:35:47] I just guy pulled me aside after an event and he's like, you know, what are you doing?
[01:35:50] You get ordered to do something that is you know immoral and I was like, oh, don't do it
[01:35:55] He was oh, you just don't do it. I was like, no, you can't do things that are immoral unethical or illegal
[01:36:00] You can't do them as a matter of fact. I said it's your duty not to do them
[01:36:03] A general order of the century says you must obey all lawful orders
[01:36:07] It's if there's things that are unlawful you don't do them. In fact, you have to not do them
[01:36:11] And he was kind of looking at me surprised. He goes, well, how often did that happen? I go it never happened exactly
[01:36:15] Never actually zero times in 20 years and that's that's really the point
[01:36:20] Center to the point I was trying to make is we create this like
[01:36:23] We create some story that I'm being told by this awful evil boss is trying to get all my people killed
[01:36:27] And how do I handle that like?
[01:36:29] That never happened to me. Yeah, has it happened in history? Yeah, I guess it does and then inside that
[01:36:35] But from your perspective or from the point you're making from a leadership standpoint
[01:36:38] If if I've done all these other things right and I got a good relationship with my boss, jaco
[01:36:43] Hey, what are you? What are the chances again? Hey, Dave? I got this unethical thing. I want you to go
[01:36:46] It's not gonna happen. I gotta I gotta plan. I want you to go actually it's a bunch of people gonna get wounded to kill
[01:36:50] Go ahead and execute it. Totally. So those those scenarios and I have no reason why right?
[01:36:54] They don't and they don't just sit by themselves. That doesn't just happen
[01:36:58] Uh, so we want to avoid the idea that like
[01:37:00] Or what do you do in this case? Well, that never happened to me, but that didn't happen
[01:37:04] I never once had a relationship with my boss by which he said hey come here
[01:37:07] Half your people are gonna die. It serves no purpose, but I want you to go
[01:37:11] Come on man. Like we're not doing that. Hey, Dave, you know what? This is gonna cost the company a bunch of money
[01:37:16] It's gonna give us a bad reputation and we're probably gonna get some people to quit
[01:37:19] Yeah, I want you to go and execute this right and you're like cool. Got it
[01:37:23] Stuff doesn't happen. Um, but that's also why truth
[01:37:27] That's the leading trait here was integrity up and down the chain of commands. So we like that. Yes, um
[01:37:32] Practice doing every task the best your ability wholeheartedly support your commander's decisions
[01:37:37] How do you best support your commander's decisions by guiding your commander and pushing back against your commander when something doesn't make sense
[01:37:43] And getting on board with the little things that aren't gonna matter that much totally you tell me to do something
[01:37:47] I'm gonna do it man. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna get it done. I'm gonna kick ass at it
[01:37:52] If you tell me to do something that's totally stupid, I'm not gonna let you make that mistake
[01:37:56] That's how I'm gonna wholeheartedly support you by being smart and having good relationship with my boss
[01:38:00] Never discuss the personal problems of subordinates with others cool
[01:38:05] Stand for your country the Marine Corps your unit and your fellow Marines when they are unjustly accused check
[01:38:09] Never criticize seniors in the presence of subordinates
[01:38:15] Check with a caveat
[01:38:18] You know, like you said if you're doing something if you're being told to do something that doesn't make sense
[01:38:22] But it's not worth quote falling on your sword over. It's like, hey, listen. Here's why we're doing this
[01:38:28] I know it's not maybe the best way to get it done
[01:38:31] But in order to develop a better relationship with the boss and gain more caught with him
[01:38:34] We're gonna go ahead and execute this. We're gonna wear our freaking dress uniform tonight and everyone's like, you gotta be kidding me
[01:38:41] Yep, I wish I was kidding you, but I'm not yeah, we're gonna and you know what we're all gonna look so sharp that
[01:38:47] The boss is gonna know that we're the platoon that can get that's such a great example
[01:38:50] Because those are the it's like boss wants the paperwork done 12 hours ahead of the due date
[01:38:54] You know like oh come on like guys listen
[01:38:56] That's the those are the scenarios where your uniform you don't want to wear getting paperwork done
[01:39:02] Those are the far more realistic scenarios you had to come down and go. Hey guys
[01:39:05] I know it's a little bit frustrating
[01:39:07] But as opposed to boss is sending us on the suicide mission with no benefit. That's not that's not the scenario
[01:39:13] That's more likely. It's the one you used to describe like
[01:39:16] Guys, I know you don't want to do this. I know sometimes this comes out. It could be kind of frustrating
[01:39:20] But we're gonna do this and here's why and and if you got a good relationship to your people most of the time I'm gonna go
[01:39:26] Okay, fine. No worries, Dave. We got your back and they're gonna just get it done. It's not that big of a deal
[01:39:31] I just remembered at stoner's funeral in hawaii. There was some guy that was there
[01:39:37] I want to say was in hawaii who was stationed on the ship with stoner
[01:39:42] And the stoner was in charge of like I don't even know he's in charge of um like some department on the ship and
[01:39:49] they pulled into port and
[01:39:53] Stoner like gave the liberty brief. He's like, hey you guys, you know like liberty go go
[01:39:57] Don't get in trouble and they were all like, damn we don't have any duties or whatever
[01:40:01] And as they got this guy he said they were leaving the ship and they looked like
[01:40:05] Wherever on the ship and stoner was there like doing the duty that they all had to do like they had to clean something to do
[01:40:11] Someone and he was up there just like doing it by himself and I was like, I can dig the dude was so freaking
[01:40:16] And like pumped, you know, um, that's taking care of your people
[01:40:20] Uh, never criticize. Oh, yeah, never criticize your seniors and friends and support us. Yeah, check
[01:40:26] Do not discuss command problems outside the unit check be loyal to your seniors and subordinates. Check
[01:40:31] Support the lawful policies of senior officers. Whether you personally agree with them or not
[01:40:36] Loyalty is a two-way street
[01:40:39] What I would ask you to do
[01:40:41] Is not to support the lawful policies of senior officers whether you personally agree what I would ask you to do is understand them I
[01:40:49] Would ask you to understand why your boss wants you to wear a uniform on a Tuesday night
[01:40:54] I would want you to understand why your boss wants you to
[01:40:58] Turn the weapons it at a certain time before good ball, you know like understand and give them the benefit of that out
[01:41:04] That's that's that's a little bonus too because you could be super critical about everything and nothing makes it if you want to be
[01:41:09] Hypercritical literally nothing makes sense in the military. It's all freaking. It's all just dumb
[01:41:14] So if you want to go level 12
[01:41:16] Hypercritical and it's the same thing in any company you go
[01:41:19] We I could go to some company right now and start talking to the subordinate
[01:41:23] Teams start talking to the frontline personnel and we could get a list of stupid things that that company's doing and we could never stop
[01:41:30] writing them down
[01:41:31] So instead of looking for what's stupid try and understand why these things are happening
[01:41:36] And this is the last one judgment
[01:41:38] judgment is the ability
[01:41:41] To logically weigh facts and possible solutions on
[01:41:45] Which to base sound decisions and includes common sense when faced with a new problem or information you don't understand
[01:41:52] Seek advice before you attempt a solution. It isn't degrading to ask questions
[01:41:58] Note to self
[01:42:00] In leadership strategy and tactics one of the things that a leader supposed to do is to
[01:42:04] Ask questions
[01:42:06] It is embarrassing to arrive at a poor solution because of the lack of judgment to seek help
[01:42:12] To develop the trade of judgment. You should do the following practice making estimates of the situation
[01:42:17] That's something you can do as a leader get your get your team members
[01:42:20] Someone that you're trying to coach and mentor be like, hey echo. What do you think we should do right here?
[01:42:24] What do you think's going on and talk have them talk you through it and you're gonna get better
[01:42:29] You're gonna come up with a better solution anyways, but it finds a solution
[01:42:33] But if I have echo try and come up with a solution to estimate the solution or estimate the situation come over the solution
[01:42:38] Come up with a plan. I'm detached and I'll all of a sudden I get to see a different perspective that I didn't see before
[01:42:42] So there's a little
[01:42:44] A little bonus. There's a bonus to that
[01:42:48] Anticipate situations which required decisions to be prepared when the need arises cool
[01:42:53] Avoid making rash decisions. I like how they use the word avoid
[01:42:59] I would go strong like don't make rash decisions
[01:43:01] And I wouldn't use the you know, you don't want to say never but
[01:43:06] You need to go stronger than avoid
[01:43:09] like
[01:43:10] As often as possible avoid making rash decisions, right
[01:43:15] Maybe even a little stronger than that. We'd have to break out the thesaurus and get busy to figure out where we're going
[01:43:19] And the last one here approach problems with a common sense attitude, which may sound common sense
[01:43:27] But sometimes it's not
[01:43:29] um
[01:43:31] There you go
[01:43:33] Some more leadership. What do you got echo Charles?
[01:43:35] You kind of rewind into that maybe to few one few lines ago when you know, let them come up with a plan or whatever
[01:43:43] Just to give give them the the opportunity to exercise their capability. Whatever. Are you going in there with
[01:43:50] Knowing where you're not going to use their plan and they know that or are you like maybe you come up with a good plan
[01:43:56] If you come up with a plan that's like
[01:43:58] Viable, yeah, sounds good to me, right? Yeah
[01:44:00] If you come up if you come up with an idiot plan, we're not going to use it
[01:44:04] But what are the chances of you coming up with an idiot plan?
[01:44:08] If I said to you right now, you have no military experience if I was like, hey echo, we've got to attack this building
[01:44:15] Yeah, you'd probably come up with a plan that was almost usable
[01:44:19] Right, you'd be like, well, we should put some guys over here and maybe I give you a five minute class
[01:44:23] Then you if I give you a five minute class
[01:44:26] You could probably come up with a plan that we would execute
[01:44:28] Yeah, and I'd be like cool sounds close enough. Okay, so so it's like the primary primary
[01:44:33] Purpose for you doing that is to give them exercise, but completely open completely for for for that to be the jam
[01:44:40] And as you know, this is like how I roll anyways
[01:44:42] I mean this is like what I do all the time with everything. That's kind of why I was asking
[01:44:47] Yeah, I'm like, are you like in your mind saying
[01:44:50] But in case he does we'll go with it kind of a thing or because there's a difference between that and then really leaning on someone
[01:44:56] For the plan like, you know, if it's clear that Dave knows more than
[01:45:01] You or me or whatever about something you're like, hey, we better go to Dave for this plan
[01:45:05] You know, that's like leaning on him for it
[01:45:07] But sometimes it's like unnecessary, but the primary isn't you want to give them an exercise?
[01:45:11] So down the road or whatever they're going to be really good, but that's the primary purpose
[01:45:15] You seem saying I don't even know if it's the primary purpose because when if Dave's working for me and he's a platoon commander
[01:45:21] He's a project manager for me
[01:45:23] And I go, hey Dave, how do you want to execute this?
[01:45:29] Yes, he gets education
[01:45:31] Yes, he gets to learn
[01:45:33] But yes, he's probably gonna come up with a decent plan and as long as he comes up with a decent plan
[01:45:37] We're probably gonna execute that thing. Maybe we got to make a couple adjustments, but that's kind of what we're doing
[01:45:42] So it's a it's not even like hey if you're trying to change train someone right
[01:45:48] If I'm working with someone I'm gonna
[01:45:51] Try and let them come up with the plan
[01:45:53] It's gonna make me
[01:45:55] Better because when Dave comes up with a plan I
[01:45:58] Look, I have a plan in my head right? I've got something even if I look at a target for three seconds
[01:46:03] Or I look at a project for three seconds. I go. Yeah, I know what I do here as soon as I ask Dave
[01:46:06] I get a whole totally different perspective
[01:46:09] And so and and by the way
[01:46:11] Dave only sees what Dave sees
[01:46:14] So now when I say throw something out there
[01:46:17] He's like oh and it's like
[01:46:19] Like building my leadership capital because I'm listening to him, but I also have good ideas myself
[01:46:24] It's just a win win win win
[01:46:26] across the board
[01:46:30] So
[01:46:33] Fundamentals of marine leadership Dave Burke there you go you handed me this manual
[01:46:38] We got some good. We got some bad. We got some ugly. We only covered a little bit of it
[01:46:42] I don't know if we're gonna dig back into this thing, but uh the important thing is to
[01:46:46] Always dig see what you can find
[01:46:49] What do you got anything else? No, I think we said it. I mean inside there like I said
[01:46:55] I in every case I was thinking myself. I understand what you're saying, but so that's all good to go
[01:47:01] I actually I'm actually interested and see if there's like a new like an updated version
[01:47:05] You know the the 2017 version of this that has you know, 17 years or 16 years of combat experience inside there
[01:47:11] Um, for me, it's kind of cool though the 14 leadership traits those those
[01:47:18] You know, we called it JJ did type uncle. That's the acronym justice judgment decisiveness initiative
[01:47:24] You know all those letters that go on you know that you talked about
[01:47:28] That has stood this test of time and as you as you read what they meant. I'm like, that's right. That's right. That's right
[01:47:34] It also I think gets to the explaining this stuff is harder than it seems and we talk about leadership all the time we teach
[01:47:41] Some of the most rudimentary leadership behaviors in the world cover and move
[01:47:47] Communication and yet we know how hard it is to do them and so inside this you get this sense of even
[01:47:55] even for these folks
[01:47:57] Understanding it and explaining it and being able to do it or very different things. The stuff is hard
[01:48:02] Explaining it is hard
[01:48:04] learning it and understanding it is so much harder than it is to just say it and
[01:48:10] it was it's actually
[01:48:12] cool to hear as as you're talking through that my leadership radar my leadership here like wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong
[01:48:20] and to be able to pull out even some of the new ones inside there even like you said
[01:48:25] Don't say avoid being a tyrannical leader. Don't be a tyrannical leader
[01:48:30] and
[01:48:32] this was
[01:48:33] Had some fun with that, but this was cool to see that
[01:48:36] I had this sense of this of someone struggling to articulate a concept they understood
[01:48:41] but didn't know how to teach it and didn't have the the um
[01:48:45] The experience reservoir to go. Okay this concept now I can put meaning around this content concept based on my experience
[01:48:52] I would say that
[01:48:55] A little yes to that but also I would say that
[01:48:58] That
[01:49:00] Where I thought you were going with that is look you can read the word decisiveness
[01:49:04] And you can understand you can understand what that means and I can understand what that means
[01:49:10] But someone else apparently this guy
[01:49:14] Thinks that decisiveness means you need to understand all the facts
[01:49:17] So even these things that we understand a certain way
[01:49:21] They're interpretation of what decisiveness means is different and quite frankly in some of these cases not correct
[01:49:30] So they were able to take correct concepts
[01:49:33] And teach them in a way that are incorrect
[01:49:36] I don't think it had anything to do with not being able to
[01:49:41] Express it or articulate it. I think they actually didn't understand the thing
[01:49:46] Yeah, what that actually what that actually means. I mean when you're talking about um
[01:49:51] Some of those decentralized command that we're running kind of like flipping through to see some of those examples where I like wrote like no
[01:49:59] Like like what we just said never give the slightest hint of disagreement with orders
[01:50:05] when giving instructions to support it so
[01:50:07] We're we're we're not telling the truth to our troops
[01:50:11] loyalty
[01:50:13] I would focus on hey if you're loyal to your boss, you don't let them tell you to do something that may doesn't make any sense
[01:50:18] That's not being loyal totally the opposite. Yeah, yeah
[01:50:20] The last thing I want for loyalty from Dave Burke is I'm like hey Dave charge that machine gun nest
[01:50:25] With your squad elevated position
[01:50:28] Go the last thing I want from you to see you yes, sir in charge
[01:50:31] I want you to be loyal to you to your troops and loyal to me by saying hey boss. This is dumb
[01:50:38] We need to lay down cover fire and we'll maneuver around the outside. So
[01:50:40] So there's some there's some swings and some misses which is very interesting. I was thinking this I started thinking about this
[01:50:47] I'm like
[01:50:48] Is was this thing like the navy achievement medal of some like some like lieutenant colonel or major that was like
[01:50:55] oh
[01:50:56] We wrote the marine corps fundamental like and he just kind of that was his project. He got after it, you know
[01:51:01] Yeah, I wish the same with all the ones I wish you could have just been in the room
[01:51:06] Because there's shades there's little peaks of that guy nailed it whoever that guy was like you went through that one
[01:51:12] You're like nailed it. Yeah, you almost have the sense like that's someone who understands it and got his
[01:51:19] Fragments of this thing in this pub. Yep, where's the other guy who doesn't understand it got his fragments in and when you put them
[01:51:24] So I'm like yep nope
[01:51:26] You know it's what you were talking about being on paper versus being on target, right?
[01:51:30] And this this this has happened to us at echelon front where we get a leader we go and work with the leadership team
[01:51:38] and they take a principle
[01:51:40] And we check in with them, you know three weeks later
[01:51:42] We'll go back there and you can see this one person. They're on paper, but man, they're not hitting the mark
[01:51:49] and you know for them
[01:51:52] Extreme ownership meant I'm going to dictate everything that's happening here
[01:51:56] Or decentralized command meant I can go to the Bahamas for the next two weeks on vacation because I'm gonna let my team so
[01:52:03] They take it and interpret it the wrong way. Yeah, so this stuff
[01:52:09] There's there's probably you just like just like shooting like there's a chance
[01:52:13] You know I would take Dave and get you dialed in at 300 yards on your rifle
[01:52:17] You're gonna do pretty good if I take a group of a hundred people and do that
[01:52:20] How many have some people that cannot that aren't gonna be hitting paper? Yep
[01:52:23] And so that's what we have to watch out for and that's you know, what's interesting about working at echelon front like
[01:52:29] Because we do this all the time
[01:52:34] Like we we we know and we also have the ability to go up. Yep. This person's gonna be a little bit off target
[01:52:39] Hey, two clicks to the right one click down. We're gonna get you dialed in bullseye on this stuff
[01:52:44] And even that can be hard. There's some people there. They're they're they're praying spray. Some people have the vision of
[01:52:49] You know, finally jocco is gonna come to my company get everyone in line. It's like everyone. Yeah
[01:52:55] It's like no, it's not quite gonna go like that
[01:52:58] So when I read all these things
[01:53:03] Keeping an open mind about what you're reading what you're interpreting about what you're understanding
[01:53:09] Thinking that you know, even when someone presents me tomorrow afternoon. I'm working with a company and someone says
[01:53:15] Hey, jocco, I don't think cover and move works. I don't think to myself. Hey, shut up. You don't know what you're talking about
[01:53:22] I know I know I go talk to me about why not
[01:53:25] What is the situation?
[01:53:27] so keeping an open mind and
[01:53:30] Not thinking that you know everything
[01:53:32] is is extremely important
[01:53:35] and even
[01:53:37] Dictating right that's what I think one thing that sat a little bit wrong about this
[01:53:42] This this book for both of us is there is a lot of dictating the way things are with
[01:53:49] With no outs with no deviations and that's always problematic. It's always problematic to paint yourself into a corner
[01:53:57] It's always problematic to carve things into stone. Yeah
[01:54:00] There should be some things carved in stone very few the things that you carve in stone
[01:54:05] They should be very very few and even when you carve them into stone you should be able to move that rock around a little bit
[01:54:11] Yeah, I think that's an awesome metaphor and then the other word that that certainly triggered a response of me is the concept of control
[01:54:19] How this is about controlling like and we both that word are like wow that that
[01:54:23] But even conceptually like if you are if you in your mind think this this is a tool or technique to control people
[01:54:31] Your interpretation is going to be wrong because even the outcome that you're trying to achieve or even what leadership really is
[01:54:36] You've got and you talk about different perspectives if the perspective is this is a tool to control other people
[01:54:42] You've got this wrong. Yeah, and that was the other word that really hit me like man
[01:54:45] That's that is not what we're trying to achieve here if you're like throwing out
[01:54:49] Hey, if you got to be authoritarian deal, there's time to play. Hey, and you know what is there? Yeah, sure
[01:54:54] There's a time in a place
[01:54:55] There's a time that there's an emergency going on people don't know what's happening and you got to get up and be like
[01:55:00] Hey, everyone be quiet. We're moving over to this thing that happens
[01:55:03] but
[01:55:04] It shouldn't be happening a lot. So
[01:55:07] There you go leadership
[01:55:09] Lessons learned
[01:55:11] Thank you marine corps. You know marine corps
[01:55:15] You're my people. So I know you're with me now
[01:55:18] We just had to we had to dispel some stuff in this one
[01:55:22] Uh, appreciate it. What else what else we got echo people getting we're getting smarter. We are we're keeping an open mind
[01:55:28] We are we are trying to yes, so we're on the path. We're avoid keeping in a clothesline
[01:55:33] I'll tell you that definitely a good thing doing our best to avoid that. Uh, yes, so, you know, we're on this improvement path
[01:55:41] growth path
[01:55:43] And we need supplementation sometimes the jocobo supplements is we're gonna talk about first
[01:55:47] So additional protein in the form of a dessert short description. Yeah, same thing. It's called milk. You did it
[01:55:54] Yeah, it's its own thing. Yeah, it is
[01:55:56] Um, also energy drinks, but they're not regular energy drinks. They're good energy drinks boom called go
[01:56:04] That's gonna help us on our mental and physical path as well. Yeah creatine speaking of physical bringing it back
[01:56:10] Studied proven for improved performance results gains all that
[01:56:17] Oh, yeah
[01:56:18] That's true. Actually, you know, I there. I only had a small stint of creatine. Oh really? Yeah
[01:56:23] Yeah, it was I guess not so coincidentally the strongest I've ever been though in the weight room. See yeah
[01:56:30] Well, you go scientifically proven and bro scientifically proven. Yeah, I just never was that into supplements
[01:56:36] Yeah, and then yeah, maybe I should have been I don't know, but I got some creatine now though got called up now
[01:56:41] So we're back in the game. Yeah
[01:56:43] Um, also what else we got joint health keep your joints
[01:56:46] So you pretty much everything for every every supplement for pretty much any part of our path. We got you we got you
[01:56:53] Not to mention some new stuff coming out. I'm not gonna talk about that
[01:56:56] I'm not gonna pop the hype bubble on the new thing. Yeah, but there's some new keep the hype bubble some new
[01:57:04] There you go jockelfield.com get it at wow, wow vitamin shop
[01:57:09] um, myer
[01:57:11] Murphy's h e b
[01:57:13] Military commissaries it's in there like hanaford in there. So we were a bunch of different places circle k down in florida
[01:57:20] jockelfield.com if you need to order it
[01:57:23] order it
[01:57:25] Get stronger get smarter. Oh, yeah get healthier get better
[01:57:29] Yeah, those monk rtds are like yeah, and you don't really understand like how good they are until you really have them
[01:57:36] Because they're only good on paper. Yeah, it's funny as we're using the expression on paper
[01:57:40] because you know on paper usually means like um
[01:57:44] It makes sense if you do the equation on paper, but in real life on paper
[01:57:49] Yeah, real life or in the field or whatever is different or whatever. So that's what I mean by this one, but
[01:57:54] So on paper, you're like, okay. Yeah, cool rtd. You don't got to mix it up or whatever
[01:57:58] But that element of it is a big deal when you really have them
[01:58:02] This bro. I'm just sucking them down. Yeah, it's a little too easy. Yeah, like you're like drinking like four of them
[01:58:07] Yeah in a day 120 sometimes
[01:58:10] Yeah, there you go
[01:58:12] Uh, I was gonna say 120 grams of you know
[01:58:14] Oh, yeah, protein. Yeah 30 grams each. Yeah, uh drfield.com originusa.com get your geese
[01:58:20] Get your american made jeans
[01:58:23] Jeans are american
[01:58:25] 100% jeans are american and you might think you're buying some iconic american jeans that got made by a slave laborer
[01:58:34] In a foreign country in a in a
[01:58:36] unhealthy environment in a dangerous environment
[01:58:40] So don't do that and get yourself an american made as stuff
[01:58:44] originusa.com jeans, geese, boots
[01:58:49] Support america support yourself
[01:58:51] There you go. Are you would you guys ever do bell bottoms? Like I throw back to the 70s
[01:58:56] jeans
[01:58:59] I don't think so. Did you wear bell bottoms? No, I'm a man
[01:59:03] I
[01:59:05] Whatever brother this actually know when I wore bell bottoms in the navy in the navy
[01:59:09] Well, when I went to boot camp you had to wear these things called dungarees. They don't wear them anymore and they were
[01:59:14] They were bell bottoms
[01:59:16] They were
[01:59:17] But it was so lame. It was the lamest uniform ever
[01:59:21] Okay, so you weren't down with them. We call them dunger jams because they call them dungarees in the navy
[01:59:26] We call them dunger jams and buds and you were so happy to get out of those things, but you remember higgs
[01:59:31] Yeah, Jeff Higgs. So he got dropped from training
[01:59:35] And they took away his buds uniform
[01:59:38] And they put him back in his dunger jams and he was he wouldn't they want they dropped him and he was not leaving
[01:59:45] And he would just show up to pt
[01:59:47] Like the class would come out and he'd go with them and the instructors were like, dude
[01:59:50] You can't be out here and he would just like ignore them and then they would like escort him out of there
[01:59:55] And then the then they'd be like dude, you'd like you can't be here like you wait
[01:59:58] And he had his dunger jams on. Yep. That's what you're saying. Just like dude. I'm staying with the class whatever fools
[02:00:04] And they they dropped him and and then finally like he just stuck with it
[02:00:08] He just was not quitting and then finally they're like, all right, dude. This guy's a badass. We need to keep them
[02:00:14] You know
[02:00:18] Yeah, they would like
[02:00:19] They would get him away from the class and then they'd send him to you know, lock him in a room somewhere and he'd like break out and then he'd get back
[02:00:25] He was just freaking not quitting
[02:00:30] With the dunger jams. Yep. All right, so no bell, but okay, I understand
[02:00:34] That may be the first time I think I've ever like try to answer a question for jocos
[02:00:37] I'll look more like shaking my head. No, I usually just sit here and listen
[02:00:40] But he said bell bottoms on look at you. I'm like, I'm shaking my head. No before you say no
[02:00:44] I don't think I've ever done that before but that one just like I'm like, no
[02:00:48] That's not happening put this way. I was not surprised with your answer
[02:00:51] But sometimes you just never know. I'm seeing hey, honestly the the enlisted navy uniform
[02:00:57] Dressed uniform. Those are bell bottoms too. I think they are right when those be classified. I mean, yeah
[02:01:01] and I know what you're talking about and and
[02:01:03] That's not what he's like the cracker jack cracker jack uniform. You know what that is
[02:01:07] Like the dress blues for for a navy enlisted guy below the let rank of e
[02:01:12] Six e six and below like you you look like a cracker jack box, you know, you look like a like a stereotypical sailor
[02:01:19] Right. Yeah with the with the Dixie cup hat. They call it. Okay. Yeah. Is that the white?
[02:01:26] Yeah
[02:01:27] The flared out pants. Yeah the flare up kind of bell bottom is yeah bell bottom me for sure
[02:01:32] Yeah, no, I was thinking like more disco days. So here's the thing. So jockey use born early 70s, right?
[02:01:37] So when you're going to just roll deep maybe because look think about it's like four
[02:01:41] I don't know after nine. I don't know 79. Right?
[02:01:44] Oh, maybe maybe we have to inspect like old pictures and see if I ever had any role to
[02:01:49] It's part of my point because right now if I'm like, hey, jockel like hairstyles and all this
[02:01:54] Her styles hair is only to look good. So whatever I'm here to win. What was the speech you gave?
[02:01:59] Whatever. Yeah, well, let's bring up some old photos of that
[02:02:07] Go on
[02:02:08] Wow, when they say suave right, you know when someone looks suave
[02:02:11] You seem saying that was jockel's look in some of those pictures. You see him saying all I hate. Hey, the point is
[02:02:17] I was not surprised with this answer, but you just never know. Okay. You seem to see
[02:02:22] So no bell bottoms in the in the pipe hunt gear though
[02:02:26] Like let's we talk about cool stuff. All right origin usa.com. Jocko store.com. Yep jockelstore.com
[02:02:33] If you want to represent we don't have bell bottoms there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no
[02:02:37] No
[02:02:38] Negative shirts hats hoodies for sure. Yeah, lightweight hoodies even for us. You are representing in tonight. I'm impressed. Perfect
[02:02:45] See, I know you're from new england or whatever and you're like, no, either you hoodie, you know hoodie
[02:02:49] Which I understand but there's nuance to to weather and requirements
[02:02:55] lightweight hoodies from jockelstore.com discipline equals freedom represent
[02:03:00] That's what you're working on. You get it. It's true. Also short locker subscription
[02:03:03] Cool designs on now and new design every month. Boom. Boom. Yeah, people have been pretty pretty happy about that
[02:03:09] I want some good feedback, but yeah, check it out. Any bell bottoms coming on? No bell bottoms. No idea
[02:03:14] I'm gonna be honest. I never was really into the bell bottoms
[02:03:17] Look, you know how people go they go retro and they kind of do that. That's their jam
[02:03:20] Never was I never could understand it. Here's the thing the closest thing I got was boot cut. You know boot cut means it goes around boots
[02:03:28] Yeah, yes
[02:03:30] It's wide enough to go around the boot. Yeah. Yeah, okay
[02:03:34] One of my friends was like a rocker like a rock and roll dude
[02:03:37] Hell, yeah, Pete his name is Pete English pizza and I saw a picture of him. Do you know English peter? Yeah, you've been around English peter
[02:03:44] But uh, oh, yeah, he did sound when he did that recording. Yes, sir, but he
[02:03:48] Like I saw a picture of him in like 19 probably
[02:03:52] Whatever 86 and he he was like full-on rock and roll and he had he had bell bottoms
[02:03:57] So like he was ready to like he looked like a rock star. I just straight up. You know what I mean
[02:04:03] So there you go
[02:04:04] English pizza night. But yeah, uh, but yeah jockelstore.com. Uh, check it out. If you like something. Yeah, get some subscribe to the podcast
[02:04:11] Subscribe to jockel underground
[02:04:14] Subscribe to the youtube channel. Get your flip side
[02:04:17] Canvas.com get your psychological warfare get it. Well, I've written a bunch of books
[02:04:21] Got a bunch of books. Check out those books jockelpublishing.com
[02:04:25] Warrior kid calm get your kids go to amazon and get these books. So got a bunch of books. Check them out
[02:04:34] Eshalon front leadership consultancy if you want to talk about these leadership things that we talked about today
[02:04:38] And you want to get the correct?
[02:04:40] interpretation of these things
[02:04:42] We will come work with your company. We'll do it virtually. We'll do it live whatever it takes to get the job done eshalonfront.com
[02:04:50] also, we have
[02:04:52] Ownership.com which is an online training. So we don't have to send you a book
[02:04:57] A correspondence book you can come online. You can do live events with us. We do lot. We're on their live every week
[02:05:04] Answering questions. There's courses to take. It's just awesome. We just redid the entire website have a brand new platform
[02:05:12] It's outstanding
[02:05:13] So extreme ownership.com
[02:05:16] Anything else on that, Dave?
[02:05:18] It's awesome. I love how you said like the correct interpretation. That's where you find it. If you want the correct interpretation of leadership
[02:05:24] That's what you want. There it is. That's where you get it. Yep
[02:05:27] And if you want to help service members active and retired their families gold star families check out marquise mom
[02:05:32] Momaly she's got a charity organization if you want to help out or you want to donate go to americas mighty warriors org
[02:05:40] And also don't forget about mica think and heroes and horses org if you want to connect with us on the interwebs on twitter
[02:05:46] on
[02:05:49] Facebook yep instagram
[02:05:51] Mm-hmm, then you can go to david r. Burke or echo charles or
[02:05:57] Jocko willing just watch out for the algorithm because it'll grab you
[02:06:02] Um and thanks to all of our military leaders at every level from e1 to o10
[02:06:09] In leadership positions around the globe. Thank you for keeping us safe and leading from the front and the same goes for all
[02:06:15] The police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics emt's dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all first responders
[02:06:23] Thank you for keeping us safe with your leadership here on the home front
[02:06:28] And everyone else out there one of the
[02:06:32] traits of a leader spelled out in this marine corps manual was courage
[02:06:38] And it talked about physical courage and it talked about moral courage
[02:06:41] And it talked about the mental control of fear and the book gave some recommendations
[02:06:47] on how to be courageous
[02:06:49] But the first recommendation that it gave
[02:06:53] Was place duty over your personal feelings or desires
[02:07:00] Place duty over your own personal feelings or desires
[02:07:03] And that's it and I think we can bring that down to a personal daily level
[02:07:11] Duty means do what you're supposed to do. That's how we build courage
[02:07:19] By ignoring how you feel
[02:07:21] And ignoring what you desire and by doing what you are supposed to do
[02:07:27] Which means we need
[02:07:29] to get out there
[02:07:31] and get after it
[02:07:33] And until next time this is dave and echo and jaco
[02:07:36] Out