Jocko Podcast 357: "Remember The Ramrods", With Medal of Honor Recipient, David Bellavia

2022-10-29T00:00:05Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles David G. Bellavia is a former United States Army soldier who was awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions during the Second Battle of Fallujah. Bellavia has also received the Bronze Star Medal, two Army Commendation Medals, two Army Achievement Medals, and the New York State Conspicuous Service Cross. In 2005, Bellavia was inducted into the New York Veterans' Hall of Fame.

AI summary of episode

i mean seriously if a zombie apocalypse happens i look at there was a time when you know a person said i want a partner who's going to be there for me when it all goes down and now that decision isn't i want someone who who what look i understand that you know things have changed we can't change we have to be the same yesterday today forever and the military cannot adapt to this schizophrenic nature of hey today we believe the following individuals you know are a protected class today we believe the following individuals can reproduce today we believe the following i mean you want to kick out 15 000 people for vaccinations what did you do with anthrax did you dishonorably discharge them what did you tell them you said you don't want the anthrax well you know you're not going to defend your country with all the people you trained with for a year why don't you take the anthrax that was the choice mm-hmm am i going to not deploy with these men that i consider family to me because what i don't know what anthrax is if anthrax was naturally occurring outside of training grounds in san diego would people not respect you know this vaccination thing to me is is a is a is a object lesson and how we have completely decided that we want our universe instead of our university is becoming more like our our military we're deciding to make the military plug and play to everything that's happening in society and unfortunately the enemy gets a vote and the enemy doesn't give a damn about inclusiveness or feeling good the enemy wants to kill you they want to kill you as quickly as they possibly can and i don't want a military that feels good at the end of the day about who they are i want the military to feel good about who they are because they dominated the battle space and americans don't know what a mortar incoming or outgoing sounds like right that's a problem and you know what they're gonna happen again they're gonna happen again and there's there's there's always going to be war there's always going to be conflict what conversation do you have if that if that does go down in five years you're talking to an 18 year old and they're like did you foresee this coming how what you go to universities i know some people don't touch the the you know vassar giving the the talks on the circuit but one of the things that young people in college will always ask you know a veteran is what can we do to prepare for the future and sometimes the answer of you need to be prepared to kill 20 communist Chinese is you know 20 million people want you dead there's a way that we can say to the Chinese government the people of China are not the enemy the people of Russia are not the enemy the people of Iraq or Afghanistan are not the enemy but no Venezuelan leader or mullah and Iran or or forever leader of China is is going to dictate what the world how the world behaves so i i don't think the i would have told you at the end that i hung up my uniform that the world was better and safer and i'm i'm disgusted that you know as we grow into our twilight our kids are gonna have to learn to shoot move and communicate and that's heartbreaking and and and i don't know what how do you have that conversation there's only one thing that's more heartbreaking than that and that is if they don't learn to shoot move and communicate because if they don't learn to shoot move and communicate that will be overrun but we we ran you know quality guys and and and girls and in the process of doing that i meet all of these like there's a class that is started where there's like a professional veteran class that comes out of afghanistan and iraq and i'm super cognizant that i don't want to be that guy i don't want to be the dd214 guy in my car you know i don't want to be the guy that's low crawling to the copier you know it's like hey what time well zero niner we're gonna like stop another brief all right like you work at an office depot like you did not have an actual depot you know popsicle stick size blasting caps and they're like out there's some of them are hanging like speakers like just really poorly done not and the Brad just rattled everything so you got water and then there's broken mirrors everywhere and you could like look up in the corner and you could see a broken mirror through the fire in the night vision and you could see the corn so they saw us coming when we walked in but that worked two ways because I can see them at the 7-eleven that they built with their little mirrors everywhere and and then I I could hear one of the guys like doing his prayer like he was saying the same thing over and over again and that's when he started to he put he was screwing a fuse on a rocket it and his buddy under the stairwell was holding the rocket and he was basically fixing the rocket to fire the RPG he's got an open door behind him and I was like okay game's over Lawson's inside the guys are outside he fires that RPG at the you know I'm not MacGyver what you shoot a rocket at a bunch of flash explosives gonna blow up I don't I mean I want to see that right give me more diarrhea I want I want to see the enemy suffering and scared and not healthy right Michael Ware gave us a briefing on what type of enemy we're fighting and and the way that these guys you know they're rocket teams he's like you're gonna look for little designations one building is gonna have nothing but rockets in it the next building nothing but medical supplies the next building just bullets if you start fracking out like you're doing you're gonna get the wrong building and that whole thing is gonna go up he's like look they've read your your books they know how you like to enter buildings we would go into a building on the top floor all the stairs were removed all of them you would jump from a roof to another roof and they took out not only the roof but the second story as well you're falling all the way down to the first floor and they've got you know these rods and glass and a costa tina wire isis al-qaeda they may be watching this right now our military should not be mistaken for a cable news gab fest show we don't care what you look like we don't care who you voted for who you worship what you worship who you love it doesn't matter if your dad left you millions when he died or if you knew who your father was we have been honed into a machine of lethal moving parts that you would be wise to avoid if you know what's good for you we will not be intimidated we will not back down we've seen war we don't want war but if you want war with the united states of america there's one thing i can promise you so help me god someone else will raise your sons and daughters we fight so our children never have to we fight for one day when our children and our enemies children can discuss their differences without fear or loathing we fight so that anyone out there thinking about raising arms against our citizens or allies realizes the futility of attrition against a disciplined professional and lethal force built to withstand anything you can dream of throwing at us americans want this kind of country americans want this kind of world and we stand ready to defend it to protect us so help us god may god bless this beautiful army may god bless our marine corps our navy our air force and our coast guard may god bless our allies and we already know that god blessed america because he gave us the greatest fighting force this world has ever seen two two infantry and the first infantry division thank you ramrod's duty first dukes again to me that's the military that i tried to join that's the military i tried to represent when i was in and many of the those i served alongside that's exactly the way they felt and you captured it um incredibly i appreciate that um little editorializing at the end of the greatest fighting force the world's ever seen you know that might be hyperbole but my point in in that is that you know and they're enrolling stone magazine they're in they're on cnn they're talking about falconry hey turn on could you tape me fox news they're doing a special on on sarma falconry like what like is your son major like it was the it was a very surreal experience to go from the backwater and a unit that really peaked in vietnam to the first division back where it's cool again and all these guys who just did their jobs are now you know doing interviews you know you've got reporters that are sneaking out of the fob to interview the boys from falooja a month later and it's just like it was very surreal um you know because it's just a lot of attention and it's not necessarily people process it differently you know so i went until like my went to my freaking locker pulled out pictures of my wife and kids pinned them up took a picture took them all down put them back in the folder put it in the drawer and shut it because that's smart just like you were talking about like the last thing i needed to be thinking about over there was my wife and kids absolutely and and that seems like a maybe that seems like it's not healthy but i think it's completely healthy you got guys depending on your decision making without a doubt it doesn't mean that you don't love it's like whenever i see a facebook profile it's like joe and kim jones and i'm ready to go this isn't a meeting with you know tribal elders the first 45 minutes we're just gonna waste time talking about the weather show up be ready everything's cool you always got that guy that's going from like cubicle to cubicle asking how you doing what's going on they we have no line of like what's personal what are you doing this weekend none of your damn business bob get my my expense sheets don't you know what i mean like we're buddies you want to be friends i don't want to be friends i want to just get the get the job done you know what i mean with dry hair while we're at it and it it just like you're just like this is it like this is it it's gonna and so my whole thought process was get low suck up as many rounds as you can in the sampler plate in the helmet and if they're gonna hit you they'll hit your leg or they'll hit your you know your your arms but just bring bring those arms duck walk in as low as you can and just try to get well-aimed fire to keep their heads down and just kill these guys walk right into the bunker they'll never expect that just walk right in and it just ran away as soon as I pulled the trigger it was just for clarity what does that mean when you had a runaway so open bolt weapons close bolt you know the like a machine gun we train people for three second bursts and it's i get a lot of canadiens you know the canadiens we're close buffalo is close to toronto the canadiens no more about the constitution than we do and the canadiens have nothing but like state-run information they don't have choices so they'll be like listen let me tell you about the second amendment why it's important you know the articles of confederation didn't allow us for a standing army of like where are you from brampton you're not even you're not supposed to know any of that you know your prime minister needs a haircut like it always it's always an education so I get shot to be in like you don't even can't take a splinter like you were gonna punch out for a splinter man you know it means like my head is going from like super confident to but when he left and he turned and I saw his face I'm like he's scared and I like the fact that I hit him repeatedly he's wounded and i didn't you know i was like they're upgrading the dsc i mean it doesn't make any sense like what is going on and it went from being upgraded to just you know army times usa today all these media people telling the world that i'm going to i'm nominated for the medal of honor which is not something the army puts out no one puts that out you can't say you're nominated for anything it's not you know you're either approved or you either get it or you don't there's no like you didn't get the medal of honor give them the dsc it's the medal of honor nothing right you can take a silver star and upgrade it you can take a dsc and upgrade it but you know it doesn't give you a pass and and there's always gonna be you know there's it's it's it's crazy how uh we think that something that we get is you know somehow gonna make you coast through like i think there's a mindset that you don't need to do anything anymore get a dui tomorrow and find out the first thing they say won't be you know a random guy in buffalo with a radio show it's gonna be uh you know du i wanted to be a dad i wanted to coach soccer and i wanted to just see my kids and this is what we fought for so i just became a normal you know a guy i worked at a milk plant i was doing you know advocacy work for like the power grid you know like nothing crazy like you can't be against protecting the power grid you know what i mean and I I was so freaked out by the way an eyeball you know ruptures that it it just unnerved me the whole thing was just so it seemed like I was cheating you know what I mean like I was doing something that was not what we're supposed to do I never had an experience with with anything like that before I've never done anything like that in my life training no one's ever given us a power pointer class on that and and I had my helmet you know so i'm like thinking about it like how that looked and how that felt or whatever and like i kind of imagine like trying to choke someone and you know like you ever like maybe if you have the gi on but but those those were the viral jaco videos are not what you expect them to be they're not like the there's not it's not controversy it's just something that happened to you that people make viral because i can't believe it's like as if you had covid it was a declaration like you wanted to talk about your vaccine status there was a time when that question was asked some people didn't want to talk about it some people did some people said it's none of your business but the assumption that you had covid it meant something about vaccine status we now know it's ridiculous it's ridiculous that yankees air and judge he got covid everyone's like i can't believe you didn't get vaccinated i still do that by the way when i hear that someone gets covid i mean like you know you bring you bring your lunch to work you don't make lunch at work you know because you don't get in the kitchen and start constructing a meal like what the hell's wrong with you you know it's like i have one the pet peeve that drives me nuts is the wet hair hair what's the wet hair anyone that shows up with wet hair like is it raining out no death nothing makes any sense because you're that close to the finish line and it takes a lot to just kind of you know maybe i'm going a little bit too crazy you know what you don't want is you don't want you know that that guy who's getting out of the army he's got a month left in a combat zone and this is Jerry Rice's last football game and he wants one more touchdown before he hangs it up i don't want a guy who wants one more fight you know before he hangs it up you know so that which is crazy and mcmajor mcmajor mcclung was the pao who lost her life in the for the marines and i thought i got approved because i'm like the only guy that wants to be there and at the end of that tour at the end of that little time she said will you sign my time magazine and i was like no way like she's like yeah come on what do you think we're stupid like and i want to be like a normal guy but every time something happens with the war my local newspaper my local whatever is like this guy's getting the medal of honor and then people want to write books and the books they're writing are not the stories that happened they're like you know then you know he's killed eight people single-handedly uh you're not touching me not touching me right and these guys are like dude one of two things is happening either you're going to go to jail for 40 years or you're going to be the ambassador to france like we've never seen this before like there no one wants to acknowledge anything so i'm doing the radio show one day my contest line blows up like we give tickets to manheim steam roller and it's some someone from army personnel that's like you must pick up the phone or we'll come to your house the moral of story is uh when when i got out the award i didn't know what was happening with it and it everyone kind of turned the media at least people were like this isn't real this you're bullshitting this story is not true you know gerber would have given you a knife by now you know like this there's something would have happened like this this doesn't make any sense and yet everyone said there was a tape there's a tape out there and i didn't have a relationship with michael i think we're all raised differently in the in the military our leaders gave us tough love but now that we're out we're still ambassadors and it's very very important that people start to see veterans you know we're not some infomercial for sally struthers for 99 cents a month private snuff he can get a cup of coffee you know what i mean like we got uh you know like wounded dogs and cages and building houses i love those institutions but we're gonna run out of houses to build we're gonna run out of wounded men and women who gave us everything for our country god bless their sacrifice god bless their service and they know that when we were gone we were replaced by units that didn't have the same logo on their arms the insignia and what that meant the the red one and uh that we were in fallujah and that bought us a tremendous amount of street credit with the with the bad guys you know it's um we were super cocky we were super confident uh and we weren't you know the mistakes that we made the zigen and zagan and the old days was long gone the chances we were taking you know they always talk about how when you know john the john bas alone story of you know you get a guy that does crazy things at guata canal and as I'm dragging that outside open air I just hear like uh like someone like took off like a scuttle of feet and like the the most grotesque Joe Thysman snap um I've ever witnessed I played sports I've seen guys you know break legs and compound fractures Achilles injuries and we were all like outside of the house that blast was worse than anything that happened inside the house I mean it just voided all of our I mean just like we just like uncontrollable vomiting like so you were just outside the house when the 2000 the Bradley's so the Bradley's all pulled up on a line and the guys got inside the Bradley's and and zipped up and Fitz had grabbed me as I was making sure all the guys were in the brass he just grabbed me threw me a hole and honestly we got the best end of it because the guys that were in the brads got just completely concussed from that boxed in area and all that munition and I had soreness like on the back of my hamstring and my quads and my glute now it was just like in my head what happened and the and the real the realization that I did nothing to the enemy at least if I got two if I got one let's get the bomb and and the problem with Fallujah is that the bombs became like a butcher shop you know you got a big set play you got like three fixed wing I thought I had him in a good grip where I could at least and I thought the fight was out of him and he just starts biting me and then as I move up my body the hand that I was not holding I just I just heard a loud crack of what turned out to be a Soviet 45 I don't even know where he had it or where it came from but I just fired directly in the wrong he didn't thank God he didn't know where my head was but it was close enough to my head that it went from not being able to hear cloudy to like ringing not being able to hear you know which is it's like a tinnitus versus I just can't hear you know They become your mascot they become your empathy they're more than leaders they're the identity of who you are they're your validators every single day it's not a good day unless he says it's a good day you're not you know ready until he tells you you're ready and when that's gone it is a father figure it's it was devastating it was devastating and now you're not even in the fight yet like it'd be like you're going to the Normandy beach and the guy gets hit in the Higgins boat and now your the ramps are dropping and everyone's like what just and you're like forget it forget it everything's okay i mean i was trying to i didn't want to drink their water because then i it was weird because like they don't want they don't want you there like no one cares about you you can be missing for days and they're like when i don't know okay move on and and so they were like i'm gonna buy you a drink that was a excuse that got used by people when it came to training martial arts and jujitsu in the seal teams it was like well you know jujitsu you just wear a gi you don't wear all this gear or jujitsu you just wear a rash guard so it's unrealistic and you're not going to be able to fight when you have gear on and which is they would say the same thing about you or i would make comparison to parachuting because when you parachute with military equipment it's this big parachute and you've got you could potentially have a weapon with you potentially have a rucksack with you and you could have protect potentially have your web gear with you and you have all these things on so it's a lot different than me running down to sanny acedral or wherever and doing a civilian jump where i'm just like literally wearing a pair of short sneakers and i jump out a little back a little little uh parachute on my back and jump out throw out you know it's just real easy and slick and cool what year did you approximately say hey you know what it's been four years this shit ain't happened i got my silver star with my name missed out there was a guy all the metal living in recipients were afghanistan and the obama administration was very clear that iraq was the bad war afghanistan was a good war we don't talk about iraq the caliphates moving throughout the country no one wants to revisit iraq we're making iraq movies that we avoided because it was too close to reality now you know superman's making the movies and you know ramadi like all these things were happening that the culture was just like no more iraq hey she's like on social media like messaging I'm sending you know like messages get out of there we like Afghanistan was falling I was trying to pass messages like you need to get out of there now and this was like 2010 or something where you like i'd say 2010 that it was like okay fine and by the way i saw what happened to marcus i saw what was happening to all these other guys i mean they savaged dakota mayer for there's absolutely nothing no one can rationalize why that guy goes from american hero on a pedestal you know you you take wil swenson and dakota mayer each branch of service you get more for the exact same thing you don't think that's weird for those two guys you you don't think you're creating uh why are you doing that you can't say that wil swenson did something incredible that day dakota mayer did something incredible that day i never was in and uh then you got dakota and everything he went through and kyle and you know all these guys will swenson and you know just it just seemed like half of the population was like at a boy here's a free ticket to disneyland and the rest of them were like i'm gonna hunt you down and make sure you can never work a job again it's such a schizophrenic world man and so 2018 i'm minding my own business i i can't help you anymore it's time to move on and then all of a sudden i get these phone calls from guys i haven't talked to in forever guys the pentagon people i met you know in washington or overseas and they're like do you hear what's happening which is like the worst way to start a conversation did you hear what they're doing to you they knew a lot of information they had a lot of stuff and your your initial thought was they're investigating you from they were investigating they're asking questions well i'm not i don't even know who you are you're calling me on the phone you're asking me did you think the medal of honor just was never gonna happen at some point did you figure and and the other thing that that was so strange is that like you don't know where your guys are and so you're constantly you know thinking that you're going to get into a spot and these guys are going to frag out or just start juicing because you know you trained them to do you trained them to err on the side of area fire at all times they're going to go through a spendex in here with 240s and m249 saws and 40 millimeters and I don't want to be on the receiving end of that hey you should make this you should make that i'm like oh that sounds like a good idea i didn't really think of that i think if you go into social media with like a a positive mindset as cheesy as that sound of like okay there's gonna be some good stuff in here you're gonna find it if you go in there worried about a bunch of negativity which there's definitely gonna be uh it'll drive you crazy but without the ps14 it's crap and these things are just on and off they're just going in it never happened before I had great night I was like proud of the way I took care of my night the guys would break their night vision be like you dear responsible horrible human being you know what a marine would do to have that you get a seven bravo for the rest of your life you don't deserve the ps14 that was such a cool thing to have the ps14s and the squalid and we took great care of them and I never had an issue and all of a sudden like you need it you need to make that flight and it's delayed and you're screwed and my night vision start coming on and off and i honestly i don't even give a damn about i mean you're you're just a a vacuous non-entity at the end of the day if you're not going to put the fire out if you're not going to help tell everyone there's a fire and all you want to do is comment on why the fire got put out then you're just a jackoff like there's no there's no there's nothing in the chain that says i need more of that so stop acting like you're on an equal platform with a disabled veteran you know let's give a service dog to everyone if you need a dog get a dog i'm not offended you have a dog i don't think you need a potbelly pig i think you're being obnoxious with a peacock i think when you brought a bull with fairy shrimp in it you're just being an ass i always wanted to be on the ground and more specifically i wanted to be some kind of a commando of some kind i wanted to like put cammy pain on and sneak over beaches and kill people that's what i wanted to do that's the only that's the first job i remember wanting like when i've realized i'm gonna grow up and i had to do something i wanted to do that something where i put uh uh cammy cork on my face you know because we used to burn the cork and put the black on our faces when we were little kids i wanted to do that over the water into enemy territory and kill bad guys that's the only thing i remember wanting to do so that's why if i want to join the steel teams it would have been the marine corps because the marine corps was in the water and i knew that much even as a young kid but pilot was never was never was never into it never even thought about it for a minute so i i always wondered that because it what i think about like the um even when i watch avatar i'm rooting for the marines and that i know they're the bad guys but that i don't like the blue people are the ones that like i like the and you just got to marry another guy and someone told me he was like Bellevue that was 12 years ago man 12 years ago let this woman move on with her life you're holding on you have no idea what she's been through you have no idea who this guy is you can't think like that this is these families have gone through so much and we promised that we would be there have we been there what kind of lives have we lived we said we were gonna live for them and be twice as good because they're not here we have to do more with our lives how many have done that instead we're talking about suicide and addiction and and how people have quit there's no way you're thinking about your buddy that died in the war if you're thinking about you know killing yourself getting high or or giving up you are betraying all of that we we've been far too soft with this generation of saying oh it's acceptable that's a choice you're making a choice it's a valid choice it's bullshit it's not a valid choice you you made a promise and it and you know that's exactly what what he said too you know and look you got you got all your friends you got a machine gun all your friends got machine guns you got a pistol all your friends got pistols you got a knife all your friends got knives you'd think there's a pretty slim chance you're gonna have to actually kill someone with your hands or with your helmet or with your knife it's pretty small chance but there you go there you go so keep training everybody keep training awesome honor to have him on with that speaking of training when you train you're gonna need to feel your system it's true it's true jockel so the drinks the energy drinks which have no sugar in them the energy drinks which have no chemical preservatives in them this is what everyone else is feeding you the stuff that has sugar in it the stuff that has chemical preservatives in it the stuff that has chemical flavoring in it we don't have any of that this stuff is literally good for you you can get it get milk get the ready to drink milk by the way we had a little uh jockel fuel board meeting today we started discussing how much milk ready to drink we should make and i'm listening and there's comments being made you know it's going to be this investment it's going to do this thing we got to do with this far in advance important information like what how much should we boom we're going back and forth and finally i said hey make as much milk as you can make as much as you can we're like we have it at the gym here but we we got to honor those promises we made each other when when we thought the world was going to end in 24 hours at this point I'm gonna fast forward a little bit it's basically go time and there's a I kind of have to read this part because we get a new character gets introduced into the scenario here you say this throughout alpha company digital cameras appear and soon the men are posing for one another nearby are embedded reporters take all take all this in they cluster together like new kids in second grade watching the scene as awkward outsiders these photos are crucially important a form of insurance against our own mortality a few months back we lost a man and realized to our unending dismay that no one had a single photo of him to display at his memorial service it was disgraceful surely this is in the back of everyone's mind now this time we will have a record of every soul who goes through the breach Michael Ware breaks ranks from the cluster of journalists with Yuri in tow they come over to third platoon and offer to take our picture the platoon lines up and they go to work the other embeds see this and promptly stream to their assigned units taking cameras and snapping pictures of them as they click away they are no longer awkward outsiders now they're now they found a way to help us they circulate among the soldiers and start to fit in they've shown us they're human and the company appreciates that after Michael and Yuri finest finally finish up I light a smoke and stretch out on the ground next to the track it's almost 0900 the morning is crisp cold and punctuated by distant artillery barrages every few minutes and Apache funders overhead fast moving fighter jets crisscross above them in the sky this is where I belong it's the first time in my life that I've found my place it's a reassuring thought that eases some of the butterflies fluttering around in my gut I wonder if it was like this for the soldiers of the Union Army during the Civil War tenting on the old campground and all quiet on the Potomac have been replaced by our percussion heavy metal modern riffs of mud vein and dope and you know we in the military we're super weird about you know we laugh at things that are you look at today and you're like you would never say these words or you never laugh at these jokes but expressing love in in my 20s was could not be done you couldn't go up to a guy in your 30s or your 20s in uniform and be like i love you you know don't ask don't tell just just love me write me a note or something and when you hit a certain age you realize i love you

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocko podcast number 357 with Echo Charles and me,
[00:00:04] Jocko Willink. Good evening Echo. Good evening.
[00:00:07] Sims kept moving and I stopped him by shouting to his back.
[00:00:14] Sir, anything you asked me to do, I am here. You know that.
[00:00:19] Sims stopped slowly pivoting on the P-stone. He walked back to me.
[00:00:27] I know that, Staff Sergeant Bell. I've never once questioned that in you.
[00:00:33] I took a moment. It was a cool night. The silence of this area of open nothingness was now invaded by
[00:00:44] giant generators humming, blasting lights brighter than a Texas high school football stadium.
[00:00:50] An area that was essentially a path that required night vision two weeks ago was now amassed with
[00:00:55] army heavy equipment, trucks, cranes and con-ex trailers of worker B contractors and soldiers
[00:01:01] endlessly moving equipment 24 hours a day for the big inter-theater move to Fallujah.
[00:01:09] What do you got Sergeant? I am more worried about losing people now than losing people in 10 years.
[00:01:17] And I don't mean to disrespect where you were coming from. I just can't think that way.
[00:01:26] We are going to lose people. We will lose some of these men.
[00:01:34] The reality of what he just said seemed to impact him in real time as if he was unaware of what was coming out of his own mouth.
[00:01:43] He paused. Sergeant, I don't know if I'm prepared for that either.
[00:01:49] We both looked at each other. All I wanted was the Fallujah fight. I dreamed for this test.
[00:01:56] I was so excited about the prospects of actually impacting this war.
[00:02:01] Now with Captain Sims, the reality of it seemed to hit me at once.
[00:02:08] He looked at me. Bags under his eyes. Stress. Worry. His wet eyes seemed red from long hours and late nights.
[00:02:21] No way around this. I need you. This is going to be really rough, he said.
[00:02:28] We need you, sir. You got us here and you will get us home.
[00:02:34] Let's get as many back home as we can. Yes, sir.
[00:02:41] We walked in two opposite directions that night. Captain Sims toward the glowing lights, me into the pitch blackness of the barracks.
[00:02:54] When I think of Captain Sean Sims, I see him in his DCUs, bright in that night's glow of the light.
[00:03:03] With only a helmet on his head and a sidearm on his leg. Walking into the light.
[00:03:16] And that right there is an excerpt from a book called Remember the Ramrods.
[00:03:24] An Army Brotherhood in War and Peace by David Belavia.
[00:03:30] And that's a conversation that took place just prior to the second battle of Fallujah.
[00:03:37] Operation Phantom Fury. The bloodiest battle of the Iraq War.
[00:03:43] And the heaviest concentration of urban combat since the Vietnam War.
[00:03:49] Captain Sims was the commander of Alpha Company.
[00:03:53] Second battalion, second infantry regiment known as the Ramrods.
[00:03:57] Who were organized in the third brigade combat team. First infantry division.
[00:04:04] David Belavia was a squad leader in Third Platoon of Alpha Company.
[00:04:12] And so that was a conversation between an officer, the officer, the company commander.
[00:04:18] And one of his non-commissioned officers as they prepared for the worst combat that they could imagine.
[00:04:27] In a short time after that conversation, they crossed the breach into Fallujah.
[00:04:35] Where they met the enemy and proved their medal as soldiers, as warriors, and as American fighting men.
[00:04:47] And there was great sacrifice during that battle.
[00:04:51] Including over 500 wounded Americans. 95 killed.
[00:04:58] And for his actions during one house fight in that battle, David Belavia was awarded the Medal of Honor.
[00:05:06] And he has written about his experiences in two books. The first book called House to House.
[00:05:13] And a new book that just came out that I mentioned which is called Remember the Ramrods.
[00:05:20] And it's an honor to have David Belavia here with us tonight to share his experiences and his lessons learned.
[00:05:29] David, thanks for coming out man. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
[00:05:34] That reading that section of the book, I remember when we were getting relieved in Ramadi.
[00:05:41] My task unit was getting relieved in Ramadi. And the new task unit came to take our place.
[00:05:46] And we're giving them an in-brief. And the guys that were relieving us, well,
[00:05:54] they were coming from San Diego, California, SEAL Team 5. And I remember giving them a brief
[00:06:02] and I was telling them, you are going to take casualties. And you could see, even though these
[00:06:08] guys, these guys had been to Mark Lee's funeral, they'd been to Mikey Montsource funeral a couple
[00:06:13] weeks prior. But, you know, they got on the ground and there's me and I'm telling them, hey,
[00:06:23] you guys are going to take casualties. It's a rough thing to face. And that conversation that
[00:06:30] you had with Captain Sims, you know, and look, how old were you at that time? I was 28. 28 years old.
[00:06:38] And you have that attitude like, hey, this is what this is what I was born to do. This is what I've
[00:06:43] been waiting for. I want to go fight inclusion. These guys from Team 5, God bless them, what
[00:06:48] they want to do. They wanted to get into it, of course. And that reality check of, hey, this is
[00:06:55] where it's going. And this is war. And casualties are going to come. It's a, it's a heavy,
[00:07:02] it's a heavy thing to walk into. I mean, Harry, you read that.
[00:07:11] I, it's, it's so, it's, it's strange to me because I think of, you know, the guys that get hurt
[00:07:19] are the ones that really know what you can get shot at repeatedly. A snap, a hiss. I mean,
[00:07:27] you're first in country. You always laugh at the new guy. Doesn't know the difference between
[00:07:31] incoming outgoing, like, hey, what are you doing? Running for the bunker, right? It's like, when a
[00:07:38] baby's born, the pacifier falls and you sterilize and steam it, autoclave it, you know, then after
[00:07:44] like the second, third kid, you're like, who, you know, come on, put some more dirt on it. It's good
[00:07:49] for his immune system. The reality is that once you have been shot and you know, and you see your
[00:07:56] friends that have experienced it, there's, it's not real until that happens. And we, remember
[00:08:05] the Ramrods is a book about how we all are trying to, I used to think that I missed war
[00:08:14] and that for my entire remaining adult years after I left the military, I missed, I missed
[00:08:21] adrenaline. I missed, they ultimate, I mean, you go into a job interview and it's like,
[00:08:27] are you good enough? What's on your resume? You know, what degree do you have your credit score?
[00:08:35] In civilian life, we, we, we like before we trust. You go on a date. Are you worthy of my time? Do I
[00:08:43] trust you? In the military, I trusted before I still don't like half these guys, you know,
[00:08:49] but I trust them, you know, like it's a totally different. And so we look at those days and we
[00:08:56] think that was the best time of my life. And there's also, we know that's weird for civilians to hear,
[00:09:04] right? We know that that's odd. And I thought those were the best days of my life. And I realized
[00:09:11] it wasn't the war. It was the relationships. It was the people. It was the sense of validation
[00:09:17] and purpose. Every day I woke up, I knew what I had to do. I knew I was needed. And being needed
[00:09:25] in a fight is the great, leading men is an incredible honor. But having a purpose in a fight
[00:09:33] is the greatest experience ever. When you're being shot at, and it's almost like the enemy's
[00:09:39] only shooting at the guys they want to take out of the battlefield. You don't ever want to be in
[00:09:43] a fight and not getting shot at. That means they're, they're willing to keep you out there for a
[00:09:47] little while. You're not, you're not exactly a threat to anyone. That's a, it's a great feeling
[00:09:54] to know that this, my generation, every reason people are divided today, our generation at war
[00:10:03] had all the problems people have today. We had gay people. We had people of different ethnicity,
[00:10:09] different religions. And yet we cancel each other's vote out every year. So we've gotten
[00:10:17] the same debates. And then when the bell rang, we went out there, did our job, and, and, and learned
[00:10:25] to live with each other and respect each other and love each other. And that to me is something that
[00:10:31] we, everyone talk, well, it's missing. It's our responsibility to remind our citizens why we fight.
[00:10:40] There's not a dental plan in the world that's going to make you do what you did. I mean, honestly,
[00:10:44] seriously, is it college debt, college debt's that bad that you're going to go and do a vacation in
[00:10:50] Ramadi? I mean, it's ridiculous. It's absurd to say. So do you grieve? You know, you have,
[00:10:58] have, have been able to do something with your career that to me is, I'm tired of people saying,
[00:11:07] look what he did. I want people to say, look what I can do. If it's not inspiring to see people like
[00:11:14] you, then it's a waste. Because if it's just about one individual, and that's why this award is so,
[00:11:20] this award is ridiculous. Because what do you do? We're team. It's all about us. But however,
[00:11:26] there's one guy, you know what I mean? The only award for the entire living, for the entire war.
[00:11:33] It's not an honor. It's, it's, it's disrespectful. I could, I can name you seven names from
[00:11:40] Fallujah alone that should have the Medal of Honor. So, so now you put one award on someone.
[00:11:47] What is, are we going to go and just eat shrimp for the rest of our life? Is now the time to go and,
[00:11:53] you know, go off into A&E and start a TLC show? My Medal of Honor life, you know, what, what am I
[00:12:02] supposed to do with this? Get a, no, how about we remember who we are every single day? I'm, I'm
[00:12:10] still a soldier. I'm still an infantryman. I will always be a non-commissioned officer. And I'm,
[00:12:16] an example of my leadership. And, and the greatest compliment a leader can have is when his subordinates
[00:12:24] eclipse him. And that's tough for, that's tough for a guy in his 20s running around with people
[00:12:31] to understand this about the military. But we get a lot of guys that were Division I studs
[00:12:37] that brought a gun to football practice. We get a lot of guys that screwed up. And, and these are,
[00:12:43] these are guys that could be playing on Sunday. Any sport they want. There are times that you
[00:12:50] want a professional gold tend a little bit and be like, well, that's a hard charger. He's smart
[00:12:56] and he's physically fit. I got to destroy, destroy his career. He's gonna take my job. I don't want to
[00:13:01] give him a good report, a good counseling statement. I want to give him an award. And then you start
[00:13:07] to realize that the reason why our military is elite is because every generation is better than
[00:13:13] the previous. And, and you have to embrace that greatness. That's what a leader is. A leader is
[00:13:18] saying, this is what I did. Look at what my 12 guys did. They're better men. They're better
[00:13:24] fathers. They're better citizens. And they're better soldiers than I was. That's what you want
[00:13:30] to be able to say. And until you say that, you know, you're, you're playing paintball
[00:13:37] with it, with it, with the college fund. It's not real. This is what it's all about is making,
[00:13:42] is making it better for the next group. I think there's a lot in these books that
[00:13:47] definitely are going to help a lot of people to be able to move through these things.
[00:13:51] Let's get into where you came from a little bit. Just a little bit of background on you. So you're
[00:13:56] born, born in what, 1975? Yeah. And up in Western New York. How do you say your town name? Lindenville?
[00:14:06] Lindenville, yes. Population 838. Is that right? That's, yes. I was like 2010 census.
[00:14:15] We're not going to get an arena football franchise anytime soon, but it's a real small town,
[00:14:19] Appletown right off farming community off of Lake Ontario. And it's about an hour from Buffalo.
[00:14:27] And your dad, what'd your dad do? Dentist. Father was a dentist and he chose rural instead of
[00:14:35] suburban. He could have done anything, practiced anywhere. That's where he wanted to raise his
[00:14:40] family. And what about your mom? She was working at the practice. She would stay at home, helped
[00:14:46] them out, was a partner all throughout. Great family, great youngest of four. And everyone
[00:14:54] had, has a master's, double master's, PhD. I mean, these are, my dad was all about education,
[00:15:01] be a professional. How'd that work out for you? I'll tell you what, it was weird that he, as a
[00:15:08] dentist, his whole thing was, you know, he had great empathy, wanted to always take people out of
[00:15:12] pain. And I would hang out. My granddad was a, it's still alive. He's 102. And he was a Normandy
[00:15:19] vet. He did Sicily, North Africa and Normandy. And let's get him on the podcast, by the way.
[00:15:25] I'll tell you what, that'll be a 12-hour, he won't shut up. You got to just give him Olive Garden.
[00:15:30] And he'll just keep talking. He'll go, but, but my grandfather would, would, my mom, it's my mom's dad,
[00:15:37] and he had, she had like 13 brothers and sisters. And I would get these stories at an age that you
[00:15:45] probably shouldn't be telling. I remember there was a time I went target shooting when my dad had
[00:15:51] a.22 rifle. And I was, he was like, David, your grouping is good, but let's try to get it center.
[00:15:57] And I'm like, because it was low right. And he was like, why are you shooting, you know, let's get it
[00:16:02] in the middle. And I'm like, but that's where the, for moral artery is. It's by the hip bone. And granddad
[00:16:08] says, he was like, listen, no more stories about where the bleeders are. You know, that's not what
[00:16:14] we want. But, but he would tell me these stories of, of combat that were almost, they were filtered.
[00:16:21] They were Victorian in the sense that there was no better nobility. But there was always this
[00:16:27] contrast of don't ever think the enemy is just Nazis are horrible, imperial Japanese were the
[00:16:36] worst people in the world, but they're human beings. And there's something that happens to you
[00:16:42] when you go to war, that you'll never, ever look at life the same. But it wasn't as if it was a
[00:16:49] warning of don't do this. It was you can't ever appreciate anything unless you're in that environment
[00:16:57] with other people doing something together against evil. So, you know, when I went to Kosovo and
[00:17:05] K4 Bravo, no offense to the Clinton administration, I didn't really find evil. You know, we didn't
[00:17:13] we didn't interrupt, you know, ethnic cleansing. We found the ethnic cleansing. We weren't a kinetic
[00:17:20] force standing up against Milosevic or the, you know, the Greek Orthodox against the ethnic
[00:17:26] Albanians. It was just kind of like we're here. We're just hanging out. Iraq was, you know, again,
[00:17:33] it was I saw evil. I saw it. I saw people that wanted to hurt myself, my friends.
[00:17:40] It's a, you know, you can be victimized by that trauma or you can be empowered by it. And you
[00:17:48] could say, listen, there can't be a bad day ever after that. Right? I mean, there can't be. There's
[00:17:55] nothing you can't do. So your grandfather made that impression on you at a pretty young age?
[00:18:00] It would. The stories were ridiculous. He's like, I'm sleeping, you know, cold day and bestown. And
[00:18:07] it was a dead pig, a frozen pig. And he would tell these stories of how he would go into these
[00:18:13] French areas that were friendly to the Nazis. And he's like, my guys haven't eaten in weeks.
[00:18:20] Do you guys have any eggs? And they're like, no eggs, no nothing. He's like, you're a liar.
[00:18:26] This is a French civilian, you know, like they've been through hell. He's like, you're lying. You
[00:18:31] have eggs. You've been given eggs to the Nazis, haven't you? And he's like, we found barrels of
[00:18:35] champagne. We found ham, salted ham. We feasted on that. And I was like, what's the message here?
[00:18:44] The message isn't my grandfather was pillaging of civilians. The message is salted ham and whatever
[00:18:54] luxury you could find was the best meal of his life because he didn't know if his day was going
[00:19:01] to end tomorrow. And I'm 12. And I'm thinking, you know, that could you imagine not knowing what
[00:19:10] tomorrow is going to be like and just having this opportunity for fellowship, camaraderie,
[00:19:17] and a warm meal? And you will literally do anything just for that moment. And he's
[00:19:23] at the time he was in his 80s. Now he's 102. He still thinks about that meal. It doesn't matter
[00:19:29] five star four star. He thinks about that meal in a barn, you know, next to a blown up 88.
[00:19:35] Like that's incredible to me. So you got this on one side. Meanwhile, your dad is all about
[00:19:41] education. Want you to how you doing in school? You know, I was my parents raised me right at a
[00:19:47] great school, great teachers. Everything was good. This wasn't I went to college and I was checking
[00:19:52] the box. And I remember my senior year I was in a library and I was I was a goofball and I was
[00:19:59] just trying to be funny and and be popular and and the little TV on the little, you know, roller
[00:20:06] cart TV. They plugged it in. It was October 93. And I'm watching Bill Cleveland get dragged to the
[00:20:12] streets of Somalia. And I felt like a complete fraud. I've never felt like this. It was the closest
[00:20:23] I've come to an out about experience where I thought I we can't be funny. We can't laugh.
[00:20:31] This is an American who dedicated his life to protecting us. And he's being dragged by a truck
[00:20:37] and, you know, ripped apart by kids and in Mogadishu and Blackhawk down. And I remember
[00:20:43] saying a prayer that I didn't know what life I would live. I had no idea it was going to be a
[00:20:48] dentist. I had 12 kids, one kid never married. I'm going to a Venge Bill Cleveland. That's all I
[00:20:54] wanted to do was just give me if it was a two week missionary trip. I'd find a way to get into the
[00:21:00] marketplace in Mogadishu. But I was going to stack up and just take a Polaroid and send it to the
[00:21:07] Cleveland family to say we got them. And the one thing that I never understood about soldiering
[00:21:15] was how important a venging loss is and how what that means for your morale, what that means for
[00:21:23] a family. And again, that's another disconnect with civilians. But knowing that the person that
[00:21:29] destroyed your life and took something away from you, that we got them, when a war became nothing
[00:21:35] but IEDs, nothing, but you never saw the enemy. You're listening to music and you disappear into mist
[00:21:43] in a war where you had the chance to see the enemy, fix them, and they're now afraid of you.
[00:21:51] That's why we fought. And Fallujah, Ramadi, Muttadaya, Bakjiba, those areas, Mosul, they gave us the
[00:22:01] opportunity to actually fight back when so many of the losses in Iraq at that point were ghosts,
[00:22:08] basically. I want to get to the point where you get done with high school, but there was a part
[00:22:16] of this book that I promised myself had to be read so that everyone could hear it. Here we go.
[00:22:24] When I was 17 in the summer of my junior year, my dad started a group for teens whose mission was
[00:22:33] to wait until marriage to have sex. The 4th of July was the biggest event in our small town.
[00:22:41] Our population of 750 would balloon to 3,001 afternoon, the fireworks, the parades, the chicken
[00:22:46] barbecue, the macrame plant hangers made this the go-to location in Orleans County. Inevitably,
[00:22:55] there was going to be a float for his new organization. My father came to me and explained
[00:23:00] how difficult it was to get older kids to join his group. And this is a group, like I said,
[00:23:05] this is a group for people that are going to stay virgins until they're married. I was stunned. How
[00:23:11] richly bizarre it was that teenagers didn't want to ride downtown declaring to all their peers
[00:23:17] they were virgins and not open for business. With a sober face and piercing eyes, he asked me,
[00:23:24] David, I would like you to be the king of our virgin float.
[00:23:30] Not having read the bylaws of the group to see if this sort of nepotism was allowed, it was quickly
[00:23:35] revealed that this was an acceptable policy. There was no disqualification in being related to an
[00:23:39] officer of the group and naming me the king of all virgins without a proper vote or at least
[00:23:46] having a board meeting. I was a good kid, shy, not exactly a ladies man and in fact a real bona fide
[00:23:53] virgin at 17. I just really didn't want to be on a float being pulled by a John Deere tractor in my
[00:23:59] hometown declaring to my entire community that my prom night didn't end like I had told all my friends.
[00:24:06] I was introduced to my queen. She was 12 years old. Every other kid on the float range from the
[00:24:14] ages of nine to a very mature 13. But I love my father. I could not let him down. People like you
[00:24:21] and if people like you and if they see you are waiting, maybe they will wait to, he said to me,
[00:24:27] dad, you are far overestimating my ability to influence my peer group. No one cares. This is
[00:24:32] humiliating. I rode on the float on a throne of chastity while girls who hadn't even reached puberty
[00:24:40] tossed tootsie rolls to my laughing peers. I wore that crown. I wore that sash that read,
[00:24:46] I don't until I do. That was the most emasculating 25 minute tractor ride of my life when the parade
[00:24:54] ended. My dad came up to me and said something I never forgotten. David, that was a very difficult
[00:24:59] thing I asked you to do. Remember this, if you live your life doing things that are difficult,
[00:25:03] but that are right, you'll find the strength to do tougher things when they count the most.
[00:25:08] My hero asked me to do it and I wouldn't have changed a thing because it made my father proud.
[00:25:17] I know you're a courageous guy. I can tell you when I was 17 years old that wouldn't be happening
[00:25:22] for me. I would have ran away, I think. To me, it was always obligation. Your father was your
[00:25:33] father and I loved my dad. There were times that when you become a father, you think,
[00:25:40] I don't know if I would have done that. I don't know if that lesson works out well today.
[00:25:44] The toughest thing I've ever had to do in my life was love my army when my army treated me like
[00:25:52] garbage. There's nothing more difficult than that, is to love your branch, love your chain of command
[00:26:01] when there's no reason to do it. That relationship with my officers was very much like
[00:26:08] my relationship with my father. These are the rules. You grow where you're planted. No one picked
[00:26:15] their unit. Very few people get a chance to pick their people and when they do, it's different.
[00:26:20] But here I am and these are my people and they're going to tell me what's going on. I'm going to
[00:26:25] knock it out. I'm going to find something because I would fear the enemy can kill you. The enemy
[00:26:34] can hurt you. The enemy could take your eyesight and your body parts. But the shame of letting down
[00:26:40] someone that was an officer in charge of me or a senior NCO was far greater than what the enemy
[00:26:48] could do. I was more afraid of what they could do to me than what the enemy could do. It sounds
[00:26:52] stupid to say out loud in your 40s, but I felt the same way about my dad. This man was, he was
[00:27:00] five foot three, never told me to lie and yet I'd look at his driver's license from New York
[00:27:05] State and I'm like, it says five nine. You're not five nine. What's going on here? But that was my
[00:27:12] dad and I loved him and that was a ridiculous request. A ridiculous request, but making him
[00:27:21] proud was everything to me. Did you play sports in high school? Yeah. What did you play? So we're
[00:27:27] a real small school. We didn't have football. So we were soccer, which is very difficult to get
[00:27:33] motivated for. But we did the basketball, soccer, baseball. Those are my three. And then you said
[00:27:40] you end up going to college. Yeah. And what do you plan when you go to college? What year is it?
[00:27:44] What year did you graduate? 94. 94 went to college, started off in New Hampshire and again, I went
[00:27:50] pre-med. Biochemistry was the major, but it was the pre-med. And then I had no, you know, really
[00:27:59] sheltered in a really small area. And so I wanted to meet, you know, girls. I wanted to be popular.
[00:28:07] And so I figured all the guys I met in the theater program just weren't that interested in women.
[00:28:12] It was really strange to me. And so I figured I'll see if maybe I could be like a theater minor
[00:28:21] and just kind of hang out in this crowd. And I had no real ability to do anything. And was
[00:28:31] shocking that they didn't care. Like nobody wanted to see me dance or sing or even attempt to act.
[00:28:36] They were just like, you want to be in this group? Go ahead. I'm like, this is like a degree.
[00:28:41] Don't you need to have some semblance? It was just like walking around everyone.
[00:28:46] Like everyone just was like, no, put a turtleneck on. You're a part of the club.
[00:28:52] And you're going to spend money to get a degree in something. And we don't even care if you're
[00:28:57] even good at it. And it really, because even the science guys cared. I mean, he had at least
[00:29:03] passed and do well. No one gave a damn about, you know, the fact that I couldn't do anything.
[00:29:10] So were you in plays or something? I mean, you have to be in everything,
[00:29:15] but it doesn't mean you're good at it. You know what I mean? Like you have to be involved, but
[00:29:21] and then like what you're graded on your effort. Like you're graded on how much you smile.
[00:29:29] I like how this is confusing to you to this day. Yeah. I was just like, this is like, I don't,
[00:29:33] I don't get it. And so you wonder why there's so many delusional people going to LA and New York.
[00:29:38] And it's because, you know, for four years, they're like, you are really trying hard.
[00:29:44] Like, well, listen, can I work? Can I get a job? We have a law, a federal law on a credit card
[00:29:53] that says if you pay the minimum in 20 years, this is what you're going to pay. But you can
[00:29:58] walk into a college today and get a degree in Shakespeare Shakespeare on stage. And no one
[00:30:06] has an obligation to be like, that's not a real job. By the way, you're never going to make money.
[00:30:12] What are you going to make it to 30? Nothing. How do you do a profit and loss? There were a lot
[00:30:17] of guys in theater departments and film that just, you know, what is Andy Warhol 15 hours of a guy
[00:30:26] sleeping? It's art. All right. You know, maybe you could be like Andy Warhol, you know? So yeah,
[00:30:34] it didn't work. So how long did you stay in college for? I stayed in for the remainder. It was my
[00:30:41] senior year of college second semester. And I had a professor tell me, and so I was getting more and
[00:30:48] more rebellious in the idea of I felt like my friends were in the army, my friends are doing
[00:30:55] cool things. And I just was like, I'm doing this for my father, I'm doing this for my mom, I'm doing
[00:31:01] this for everyone. And then these professors were just like, what have you done in theater? What have
[00:31:06] you done? Have you ever been in a movie or written a movie or anything? And the guy's like, you leave
[00:31:12] this school, you'll come back with your tail between your legs. And I was like, and do what?
[00:31:18] Teach? Like, do I have an outfit? Like, what am I going to do if I leave here? I, what have you,
[00:31:24] like, how are you teaching? Listen, I go to the range. So when I, it's a guy who really
[00:31:29] knows how to shoot a machine gun, teach me how to shoot a machine gun. It's not some guy who's
[00:31:33] like, I have this crazy dream about an 84 millimeter rocket. Let me give you a lesson on it. They
[00:31:40] actually are subject matter experts. I didn't understand why these people were professors
[00:31:44] and why they were doing. And so I just, my last year, I just said, I don't, I don't want to do
[00:31:49] this anymore. I want to leave. I want to go and, and, you know, maybe I'll write a screen player,
[00:31:55] maybe I'll write a book or maybe I'll do something to show that I don't need this degree. My brothers
[00:32:00] all had it. My brothers all did it. It was like a check the box. This I'm serious. I went into
[00:32:06] debt. That's how serious I am about being an adult. Like, if you don't take me seriously, I got a
[00:32:11] piece of paper that says I'm serious. You know, this is real. I put money into it. I wasted time.
[00:32:18] I'm a real adult. I was like, no, I don't, I don't want to do that. I want to do something
[00:32:23] that you don't think is intellectual, but I think is intellectual. And I can't think of anything.
[00:32:30] Every time I watch, I'm a big Buffalo Bills fan. Every time I watch football in the trenches,
[00:32:35] I'd go to war with that guy. It's a war is always a metaphor. There just wasn't a war.
[00:32:43] So I came home from college one summer and we had a home invasion. Now these two drug addicts
[00:32:50] broke into my parents' house. And I was like, this is my time. This is my fun. This is what
[00:32:56] I've lived my whole life for. I grabbed a Remington shotgun and I loaded it up. And I was, I'm going
[00:33:05] to shoot these guys. They're shirtless, shirtless guys just running around the house, cutting wires
[00:33:13] off of TVs, throwing them into their car, moving in and out. I had a Rottweiler at the time. I put
[00:33:19] the Rottweiler in the garage because I was afraid the Rottweiler would bite them. And I didn't want
[00:33:25] like there to be a liability issue. Like maybe they were my parents' friends. Maybe it was a
[00:33:29] misunderstanding, but I was shook. I was scared. And I grabbed this shotgun. I loaded it up. I felt
[00:33:35] it just like I had done previously. And I brought it up the stairs and I saw these guys. My mom had
[00:33:44] had neck surgery. My dad was taking care of her. They were on the other side of the house. And I
[00:33:50] just thought, you're going to, you're going to murder these guys. You're going to kill these guys
[00:33:57] and everyone's going to have to move out of the house. No, everyone's going to look at you differently.
[00:34:03] And what I was really doing was just buying time, right? Buying time for them to do something and
[00:34:09] run away or, and they didn't. And they looked at me with like zero fear. And that hurt. But that was,
[00:34:18] that's, you know, 3 a.m. inventory. No one saw that. But then my dad came out after these guys
[00:34:26] roll off. They get arrested. They go to jail. The whole trial. But right after they drove off that
[00:34:31] day, my dad looked at me and he looked at me in a way that was just, that was emasculating.
[00:34:37] Having your dad look at you and say, you're 22, 23, and you're not ready for the world.
[00:34:45] That was it. That was it. I'm like, I'm going to summer camp at Ben Hericott. I'm going to go,
[00:34:51] I'm going to get my PhD at the University of Fort Bennington, Georgia in human studies.
[00:34:57] And I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm never going to be, if there's a noise,
[00:35:02] anywhere I'm at, any situation I'm in, I'm going to handle it. Any situation I'm in. And, you know,
[00:35:09] you could be bigger than me, stronger than me. You could have more skills than me.
[00:35:13] I'm going to tear your eyes out or shoot you repeatedly. You know, there's going to be a,
[00:35:17] a, a series of escalation. But the reality is, I'm going to handle it. I'm going to handle it.
[00:35:24] I had no ability to control my destiny. I had no ability to handle anything. And the army gave
[00:35:32] me the opportunity to at least say, we're going to teach you enough to get your ass kicked in a
[00:35:36] fight, but we're going to teach you enough that you can control your, your destiny. And I needed
[00:35:42] that desperately. But there was no war going on. I was 99, you know, into the late nineties. And
[00:35:48] it was just learn how to march and do PT. And that's what I thought I needed. So infantry,
[00:35:55] they told me 11 X-ray met extra special. And so when I get there for a band, I'm like, I'm an
[00:36:03] X-ray. They're like, I'm a Bravo. And I'm like, what's that? They're like, that's real infantry.
[00:36:07] I'm like, no, it's not. They lied to you. But when I, when I got, when I got to Forbidden,
[00:36:12] Georgia the first night, there were kids like crying and nervous. I slept the best sleep I've
[00:36:19] ever had in my life in that. Cause I knew this is who I was. This is where I'd be safe. This,
[00:36:27] there was no stress. You know, these kids were like 1918. I was like, this is nothing. Oh,
[00:36:33] what are you worried about? Like this, this is what we're, this is why we're here. We're here
[00:36:38] on this earth. We were born to do this. Now we don't get a war. That's the part that's going to suck
[00:36:44] is we're just going to end up with a bumper sticker on our car. We're just going to say we're a
[00:36:49] vet and get a free meal at Applebee's. But, but listen, we, we, we offered. There was nothing
[00:36:55] for us to do. So you were that, you were that fired up like day one of boot camp? I had no idea
[00:37:01] was I wore khakis and a button down shirt because I wanted to impress. I wanted to impress my drill
[00:37:07] scientists and I was a professional and they told me that I was going to be there for like 15
[00:37:11] weeks. And so I didn't, I knew I had to shave my head, but I thought I was going to grow back.
[00:37:15] So I brought a hairdryer, right? Well, they shook my bag. They're like, what piece of shit?
[00:37:22] I was like, this is my first challenge. Like, do I own it? And I'm like, yeah, that's my hairdryer.
[00:37:30] They told me there was a couple of months here. I wasn't aware that there was a, a payday haircut.
[00:37:37] You didn't tell me that, you know? But, but honestly, I had no idea really what I was getting into.
[00:37:43] But the more I learned, I just, I looked at these drill sergeants and I was like,
[00:37:50] these are amazing. The NCO became, I'm so glad I didn't go officer, honestly, because I saw these
[00:37:58] NCOs and I was just like, this is everything I've always wanted to be. If I could have a son and
[00:38:03] I could see a person shoulders back, looking you in the eye and not, you know, not waiting to speak,
[00:38:11] but listening here in West Coast. And if you don't know the answer, you say, I don't know.
[00:38:16] Like, wait a minute, what is this magic? If you don't know something, you actually admit that?
[00:38:23] And then you make a mistake. You say, I did that. But you know what? It's not going to happen again.
[00:38:29] This was like learning a new language, a new way to, this was, this was true north.
[00:38:36] Nothing else is north, but that this is right. This is wrong and own it accountable, responsible,
[00:38:43] and, and ready for more to show that you're ready for more. You take whatever I'm guarding this
[00:38:51] little drinking fountain. But you know what? No one is stealing that drinking found. I'm 10 for 10.
[00:38:58] No fire on my fire guard. This is, this is, it was the greatest thing in the world for me.
[00:39:04] So you go to boot camp, really no factor for you. You're kind of loving it.
[00:39:08] Loving it.
[00:39:09] AIT. Is that where you go next?
[00:39:10] It's all one, one station.
[00:39:12] One big thing.
[00:39:12] Yeah. So infantry is all whatever you want. And then they said I was going to be mechanized, which,
[00:39:18] you know, Fort Drum, Fort Hood, it didn't matter. I just wanted to do, you know,
[00:39:24] what's a bunker? I mean, I just blew me away. And then I thought to myself, wait a minute,
[00:39:29] if a bunker is just this little thing, guys hang out and they shoot you, what's a window?
[00:39:35] You know, we have a different battle drill for that. But I'm like, but it's really a bunker,
[00:39:38] isn't it? And they're like, wow, this is a thinker. We got ourselves a thinker. So now these guys
[00:39:44] just say, let's explain something to you. A battle drill is like an audible. You see the
[00:39:50] linebacker come up. You see that you're not in man coverage. Now you're like, I think we're just
[00:39:55] going to react to the contact. But in that reacting to the contact, a million things can happen.
[00:40:01] And you've got to decide. So I didn't even fundamentally understand, I want to get you,
[00:40:07] I want to get close enough to kill you. That's the game, right? So in order for me to get close
[00:40:13] up to kill, you have to stop shooting at me so I could move. I'm like, wait a minute, this is
[00:40:18] making sense now. All these movies are making sense. So I got to keep your head down. So plunging fire
[00:40:27] is different than just shooting over your head. Right? I want to, I don't want to hit you necessarily
[00:40:33] do what would be great to take everyone out. And but it's not the way it works. They're moving too.
[00:40:38] They're getting away too. But if I can give you something to think about, I can get closer to you
[00:40:42] and the closer I get, the more accurate I can get and what's cover, what's concealment.
[00:40:47] Hey, the only thing I would give one more class, if you're going downrange fighting Europe or Asia
[00:40:55] or the Middle East, what cars have engines in the trunk and what cars have engines in the front?
[00:41:01] Because the first day you hide behind what you think is an engine block and those rows come flying
[00:41:08] through it like a knife through butter, you're like, oh, those damn Germans, they put it in the back.
[00:41:13] You know, that's the one thing I would change. But cover and concealment. I understand this,
[00:41:19] right? So now I get education. We have to be educated. You have to learn. And having what
[00:41:27] these young kids have today, what I didn't have, all my drill sergeants were making up stories
[00:41:32] about Panama. Everyone was at the soccer stadium. Every, you know, Bosnia, let me tell you how bad.
[00:41:40] No, there was no Haiti. You know, I almost jumped almost jumped into Haiti, almost did this, almost
[00:41:46] did that Gulf War. These men and women today, they got stories. These drill sergeants, these
[00:41:52] leaders are like, let me tell you why you want your chin strap on. Let me tell you why that
[00:41:58] sappy plate's important. Why we get low. Why it's important to bring the elbows in. What controlled
[00:42:06] fire actually is. What do you want? Hey, there's no drywall in the Middle East. That's all concrete.
[00:42:12] So when you start shooting inside of a closed quarter, that is coming back to you. It's a tick
[00:42:17] tack towing around, right? A grenade is great, right? Grin, throw the grenade and everything's
[00:42:23] over. Unless you don't have ventilation. Now you just threw a smoke grenade in a room. And the only
[00:42:29] people that know you're in there is the bad guy, because you don't know where they are. You've never
[00:42:34] been in the house before. And now they all know where the door is and where you are. So that
[00:42:38] frag, let's hope it was a smart frag and got, you know, all of these lessons learned that we never
[00:42:46] had and we learned in the actual battle and the ability to take information at the highest level,
[00:42:55] lowest level and share that information. I've never been in an organization on the civilian side
[00:43:01] that shares lessons learned like our military does. And it's a combat multiplier without a doubt.
[00:43:08] Yeah, no doubt about that. So you're learning from the I almost jumped into Panama,
[00:43:17] which God bless them. No, they were ready. They wanted to jump. They were ready.
[00:43:22] And so what's your first duty station then? Where do you end up? Where do you get assigned
[00:43:26] when you get done with bootcamp? AIT? You're now a what are you an E2 at this point? An E3? An E1?
[00:43:32] So basically, but the only advice I got from the drills, the recruiter was you're, you're,
[00:43:38] you can be a spec, you can be a specialist E4. Oh, okay. Because you're college. Don't do it.
[00:43:42] Oh, you got to earn that. Now, I didn't realize all I had to do is basically just not get a DUI
[00:43:49] for 12 months. And it happens automatically. But that first promotion felt like, you know, I was
[00:43:56] Thor. I mean, like getting promoted and seeing the increase in your, you know, in your pay. And
[00:44:03] like this was like a big deal. So E2 to E3 at a private, I have a rocker on my little private
[00:44:10] wings. Hell yeah. This was, I'm telling you, it was important. It was special for me. So I got,
[00:44:16] I got a duty assignment to Fort Hood, Texas. And in the process of doing that, my son is born,
[00:44:25] and he's born with a kidney issue. And so the army basically is like, Hey, there's no infantry duty
[00:44:33] station that has these pediatric nephrologists that you need. You got one at home, we're going to
[00:44:38] put you on a compassionate reassignment. I didn't even know what that was. And they were like,
[00:44:44] so go be a recruiter. You got a good GT score. We're going to keep you for two years on a
[00:44:50] compassionate reassignment till your son is old enough to go where you need to be.
[00:44:56] And we'll keep you in Buffalo. I was like, you know, they made up jobs for me at a recruiting
[00:45:01] station. And I just was miserable. I mean, seriously, that's what they did. That's what you did.
[00:45:07] You did. You did for the first 18 months of my army career. I was in a recruiting station.
[00:45:11] I would have volunteered to be a POW with that boy. It was absolutely. There's no more difficult job
[00:45:18] than being an army. Any recruiter is the everyone's disqualified. The game should be if you finally
[00:45:25] find someone answering the phone, you know, at the mall, I mean, you just disqualified,
[00:45:33] disqualified, disqualified. I mean, it's ridiculous. Everyone's disqualified.
[00:45:36] Disqualified. I remember one time I found a guy, he committed to the army. I brought his packet in.
[00:45:44] I had opened the door like on like a, you know, one of those hoverboards just floating through
[00:45:49] the office. I'd go to my station commander and he's like, hey, this guy was born on Christmas day.
[00:45:55] And I'm like, yeah, people get born on Christmas day. His name is Christopher Kringle.
[00:46:00] And I'm like, that's a weird coincidence. He's like, you're an idiot. You're an idiot. You just talked
[00:46:06] to Santa Claus. And again, no idea that there were people out there that would waste your time and
[00:46:13] that, you know, just your, that was a corporal recruiting program where they, and then they
[00:46:20] give you an NCO rank. And so at the time that September 11th hit, the army, obviously the
[00:46:28] military across the board, let's move people, you know, get on with your career.
[00:46:31] So were you in that in there when September 11th hit?
[00:46:34] Yeah. So from 99 until, you know, September 11th, I was in a recruiting and they said,
[00:46:40] look, here, three choices, reclassify to another job, go back to AIT and get another job that's
[00:46:46] near a place that the army will take care of the kid, get out of the army or go on what's an
[00:46:52] all others tour, which is 36 months away from dependence. And I'm like, well, which one gets
[00:46:58] me to the war? And to be honest with you, I love my country. I love my army and infantry,
[00:47:03] but recruiting also will make you want to go to war too. I don't do anything to get the hell out of
[00:47:08] that oven. They're like Germany. And I'm like, Germany, what is it? The big red one. And I'm
[00:47:13] like, I've seen the movie. Like I love the big red. I want to be in the big red one Afghanistan.
[00:47:22] Are they going to Afghanistan? They're like, Oh, no, no, no, no. Big red one hasn't done anything since
[00:47:26] 1996. We, you are only in charge of the very dangerous battleground of Kosovo. And I was like,
[00:47:34] Kosovo is a war, right? And they're like, technically, technically it's a war. I mean,
[00:47:40] you're not going to get combat pay, but you get like combat almost pay. It could be. So that was
[00:47:48] our big fight. We were peacekeepers, forward deployed Germany peacekeepers. And the big red one
[00:47:56] really hadn't been the big red one for a long time since the Gulf and even the Gulf War, we were
[00:48:02] the, we were kind of like the fake barn door that Saddam chased, you know, in the Gulf War. So
[00:48:08] it wasn't the Vietnam big red one or the World War II big red one or obviously the first World
[00:48:14] War. It was the peacetime peacekeeper, you know, stuff. And so I said, sign me up. I want to do it.
[00:48:23] I want to do anything that isn't recruiting. And that's what you did. So you go over there.
[00:48:28] Yeah. And how did you enjoy your time in Kosovo? Well, it was a six month tour that became a nine
[00:48:34] month tour and no offense to the Minnesota National Guard. But I don't think you got relieved by the
[00:48:39] Minnesota National Guard. Did you? You always know if, listen, National Guard units are incredible
[00:48:45] and they're awesome. But when, you know, a group that had never, ever, we got relieved by a National
[00:48:52] Guard unit that was calling like their Sergeant Major Phil. And like, I was like, what? It was a
[00:48:57] totally different world. I never experienced it before. So we were, we just felt like we were
[00:49:02] in the backwater. Everyone was getting Afghanistan. But my units in the second infantry, two, two
[00:49:10] infantry, the Ramrods and first ID and Alpha Company, Captain Walter, Captain Sims together,
[00:49:16] Colonel Newell, Sergeant Major Faulkeberg, Sergeant Major Bond, these guys all decided to take that
[00:49:22] nine months of Kosovo, three months extended and make it the practice for, for Iraq. And I got to
[00:49:29] tell you what, that saved so many lives because not only were we together for two years, right?
[00:49:35] 15 hour patrols of watching dogs mate, you know, in Kosovo, nothing happening, begging for someone.
[00:49:42] I mean, nothing was going on. But after that 15 hours, you're in the snow and you're training for
[00:49:51] the debt for the desert. You're not going to wear that baklava. You're not going to wear those boots.
[00:49:57] Get in your desert uniform, get out there in the snow and let's train for Iraq and Kosovo.
[00:50:04] We got all the rounds we wanted. Whatever we wanted, Claymore, never seen a Claymore since basic,
[00:50:10] you know, whatever we wanted, we had access to and we blew up pallets and grenades, pallets to C4.
[00:50:17] We were ready for combat because of Kosovo had Kosovo not happened. We wouldn't have got that
[00:50:21] training. So we graduated to a level that on day one, we could, we could fight. And that's why we
[00:50:27] were successful. And then you guys end up getting word that you're going to go to Iraq finally.
[00:50:32] In Kosovo, we're told we're in the, in the chute. So it got real serious. We literally would,
[00:50:38] we went our nine months, I think we refitted for 60 days, but that's like leave and requalifying
[00:50:44] and right back to, to the fight. So by the fall, we were in Germany and then we were three months,
[00:50:54] maybe I think is what we had. We went right to Kuwait and got ready for Iraq.
[00:50:59] I'm going to take you to the book here. When the army deployed the Ramrods to Iraq in February,
[00:51:05] 2004, we had a basic idea of where we'd be going inside the country. We ended up at Fob Normandy,
[00:51:10] which by the way, I got corrected by one of my Vietnam veteran friends that they say,
[00:51:15] he's like, it's F O B. So I don't know. I've said Bob the whole time. So there's been a transition
[00:51:22] till and the SOG guys from Vietnam. We say Fob now. So Fob Normandy in Diallo Province,
[00:51:30] section of Iraq between Baghdad and the Iranian border are area of operations included MOOC.
[00:51:35] What is it? MOOC. A size, a midsize city of about 150,000 fits. One of your guys was wounded in
[00:51:43] urban firefight in April, 2004, only a couple months after we arrived in theater to the north
[00:51:50] of the city lay open rugged terrain. When Americans think of Iraq war, the images conjured up are
[00:51:56] the street scenes in Baghdad or the flat expanse of open desert in the western part of the country.
[00:52:01] But our AO looked more like Vietnam in 1968. Thick palm groves grew in low spaces between
[00:52:10] gentle sloping hills. There were canals and rivers that the local farmers had harnessed to turn the
[00:52:14] land so bountiful that they'd become known as the bread basket of Iraq. Among the heavy
[00:52:18] vegetation and irrigated fields, small communities straddled the roads leading out. They were ramshackle,
[00:52:26] impoverished places but seated among them were wealthy Sunnis connected to Saddam Hussein's
[00:52:32] once ascendant bath party. Below these elites, the vast majority of the population were Shia
[00:52:37] Muslims with strong ties to neighboring Iran. After the American invasion in 2003, a kernel of
[00:52:43] resistance formed to the American occupation in one of these rural towns called Sincil.
[00:52:49] In the early stages of the insurgency, there were actually only a few locals involved who forged ties
[00:52:55] within Iran to secure important weapons explosives and ammunition. The palm groves around Sincil
[00:53:01] and its sister village became ideal places to cash those supplies. When the Ramrods first arrived
[00:53:07] at Normandy, the 4th Infantry Division had been battling this growing threat. They had identified
[00:53:12] six men as the leaders in the insurgency known as the Sincil 6. The 4th ID's intelligence guys had
[00:53:18] put their faces up on a wall, mapped and then connected them to various known hideouts and
[00:53:23] accomplices with different colored yarn. The first time I saw their bad guy map it reminded me of a
[00:53:28] Hollywood stalker's lair. With Sincil being the nexus of the insurgency's leadership, it became
[00:53:35] one of the most important sectors in our AO. Captain Sims frequently took us out there to meet
[00:53:40] the locals, drink tea with their leaders and discuss the needs of their communities. Classic
[00:53:44] counterinsurgency, win their hearts and minds, stuff that came straight from the Vietnam playbook.
[00:53:50] Within 30 days of our arrival, the Sincil 6 had grown to the Sincil 10. We tracked down and killed
[00:53:56] two of the original members. When the intel learned there were three brothers moving between
[00:54:00] Syria and Sincil to arrange another flow of weapons to that area, they ended up on a yarn-crossed
[00:54:04] wall map too. One of our special operations teams located trapped and killed one of the brothers.
[00:54:09] The other two escaped. Each time we thought we'd deal with this, we dealt with the Sincil
[00:54:14] a crippling blow, they emerged stronger with even more support from the local population.
[00:54:18] It was like fighting a contagious virus. For every patient we treated,
[00:54:23] three more infections would crop up. The Sincil 10 grew to Sincil 20 and then 30. After that,
[00:54:29] we just lost track as a wave of recruits, organizers and well-trained Iranian operatives
[00:54:34] flooded into the bread basket. That spring, the insurgency erupted all over the country.
[00:54:40] Between the first Shia uprising that displaced the Sunni ruling class rebellion,
[00:54:44] nearly every coalition unit was inundated with insurgents, planning IEDs, planning IEDs in their
[00:54:49] operational area, executing ambushes and launching attacks at key targets. As the weeks wore on,
[00:54:55] our trips to Sincil turned into a kinetic version of Groundhog Day. We'd go out so Captain Simms
[00:55:03] could continue to try to develop relationships with the local Iraqi power base.
[00:55:07] While he was talking to them drinking tea, the insurgents would be alerted to our presence and
[00:55:12] establish ambushes for us. That just kind of paints a picture of what you guys rolled into.
[00:55:19] Yeah, Fourth Infantry Division. So we started to see the extensions. You had a stop-loss that was
[00:55:26] going on when Iraq kicked off and a lot of people thought they were out of the military and they
[00:55:30] were kept in. But then you had the first real extensions. I think it was Karbala,
[00:55:34] was the first armored division that did, they were supposed to do nine months. Everyone was
[00:55:39] going to do nine months and then it became a year and then a year became 15. And there were units
[00:55:44] that were doing 18. And so we didn't really have, with the kinetic tempo that was going on,
[00:55:49] Afghanistan, Iraq, how are we going to replace these units? Are they doing sustainment,
[00:55:57] stabilization operations or are these still kinetic? We were told, you're not getting a CIB,
[00:56:04] you're not going to get a common infantryman's badge and you're not going to get a combat patch.
[00:56:07] They told you that when you got to Iraq in 2004? Absolutely. The mission accomplished,
[00:56:11] the war was over, you had to be engaged by the enemy, they kept changing what engagement was.
[00:56:16] So check this out. So you got there in February. I was there as well. I was wrapping up my first
[00:56:23] deployment. So I got there in 2003, I was in Baghdad and in April of 2004. So just after you
[00:56:31] arrived, we went, my task unit, my, it was actually just a platoon, it was my platoon, we went and we
[00:56:38] captured one of Sodder's top lieutenants down in Najaf. Yeah, we were there.
[00:56:45] Okay. So when we did that, it ignited everything. In April of 2004. In April of 2004. So the big
[00:56:53] fight was supposed to be in April of 2004. Fav Duke, which is the big Fav that we created in April of
[00:57:01] 2004. Where was it? Right outside of Najaf. Okay. That is named after my brigade, where the Duke
[00:57:08] Brigade, third brigade, first ID. That was, I've never, so you talk about the terrain,
[00:57:15] you know, a lot of vegetation, humidity. Najaf was straight up the oil bubbling. I mean,
[00:57:23] it is just nothing but sand. And the biggest cemetery in the world is in Najaf. And after
[00:57:31] August of 2004, they added a couple kilometers. If I'm not mistaken, that was a horrible,
[00:57:37] Mukhtan al-Sodder was this toothless, self-defined cleric. He didn't have the street credit to
[00:57:43] be a real cleric, but his dad ran that Mahadi militia, a Sotter city in Baghdad. These Mahadi
[00:57:52] militia guys, it was weird to see the gestation of the insurgency. The Mahadi militia knew enough
[00:57:57] to get killed. They really were not, they were wearing uniforms that were like gold and black.
[00:58:04] They didn't really have a whole lot of tactics. When the Iranians started to bring the Quds forces
[00:58:10] in Iranian Revolutionary Guard, got a whole different, their indirect fire much more accurate.
[00:58:17] The RPG7 as opposed to the five, the way they were trying to go after vehicles and tracks and
[00:58:24] the EFPs and the IEDs. But the other thing was when we started to make Iraq the insurgent
[00:58:31] all-star team and bringing in these boys from Chechnya. I mean, when you would go through
[00:58:37] Fallujah and pick up passports and be like France, Italy, Chechnya, Bosnia, there was a guy who
[00:58:47] was in Dearborn, Michigan. Can you imagine that? You were so hell bent that you decided to go to
[00:58:55] Iraq. I mean, what? But everyone from all over the world. The Jaffa was the first time our unit
[00:59:03] was able to show what, I shouldn't say our unit, armored first cab, fourth ID before us, third ID
[00:59:09] before us. But the first infantry division in that OIF one to two showed that tanks and
[00:59:18] Bradley fighting vehicles belonged in an urban fight. No one was using the Abrams in the city.
[00:59:25] No one thought what's a Bradley fighting vehicle. The thing about a good and again,
[00:59:31] all infantrymen think the mechanized are lazy and fat and they just want to eat and watch TV.
[00:59:37] And we hate the tankers in Garrison. We're beating up the tankers more than we're training.
[00:59:43] Infantry hates tankers. After Iraq, infantrymen and tankers are the best of friends. Because if
[00:59:51] you can support that, again, so many units, they take their platform, their support by a fire base.
[00:59:57] It's a five ton truck with a 50 cal. It drops you off and it goes home. You carry that support by
[01:00:03] fire base with you. You work in concert with the Bradley's on providing security for you.
[01:00:08] You're blowing pieces in the, you know, fun sized pieces for the enemy. That 25 millimeter high
[01:00:15] explosive autocannon is one of the greatest gifts the Pentagon gods have ever given us.
[01:00:21] And when you want to, I don't need a clear house. If I can have a gunner put two HE rounds in a room,
[01:00:30] it's over. We're feeling pretty good about it. We like, DraftKings has us, you know, as the favorite.
[01:00:39] What made me think of that is I could see your leadership telling you in what would it be
[01:00:44] in February or maybe even January of 2004, like, Hey, you're not going to get combat action.
[01:00:51] Right. You know, you're going to go, it's going to be, but I guarantee by April, when that, when
[01:00:56] they, when the, when the Maudi militia, when militia went berserk, you're going to get that
[01:01:02] combat action, whether you like it or not. It's common. Because they went, I mean, it was like a
[01:01:07] 180 degree turn. We were, I mean, the, I was up at Baghdad. We went down in the joff to grab this
[01:01:12] guy, Yacoubi, who was one of his lieutenants, and we brought him back. And by the time we got back,
[01:01:19] you know, it was just like, for us, it was another mission. Now we had been targeting
[01:01:23] Sotter for a long time, but they wouldn't let us do it. And they finally said, you know what,
[01:01:26] let's see what'll happen. Let's see what'll happen if we grab one of his guys. So they sent
[01:01:29] us to go do that. It was total mayhem. I actually felt bad. I felt horrible because
[01:01:35] the conventional forces got caught off guard. They weren't ready for it. And like in Sotter City,
[01:01:40] went totally insane. A lot of casualties there. And I remember the Baghdad where I was, we'd get
[01:01:48] an occasional mortar in there. All of a sudden, the front gates getting attacked. I mean, it was
[01:01:52] on. It was a radical change that happened when, after that mission. And it really fueled the
[01:01:59] insurgency. There's a couple of videos. We were getting ready to go to Najaf. We saw, I think the
[01:02:04] Poles, the Polish Army was at like a camp kilo, which was right outside of the city. So the Easter
[01:02:12] uprising in April of 04 was the insurgents attempt to cut Baghdad off. And you had Highway 5,
[01:02:18] which went from the East and Diyala all the way across Baghdad. And you had Fallujah, which was
[01:02:24] always considered to be like the Wild West of Iraq, even when Saddam was in power. And they built
[01:02:31] their homes. You know, like the Shia population, vast majority of Iraqis were Shia. Saddam had the
[01:02:37] Bathis Party, which was Sunni, but was weird about Iraq's culture as opposed to any other Middle
[01:02:43] Eastern countries that Saddam was able to make pan-Arabism in the war against Iran. He convinced
[01:02:50] half of the country to die for Iraq, the flag. And so when he puts Insha'Allah on the flag,
[01:02:58] this is like everyone was pro-Iraq in that war with Iran, which was very bloody and costly to the
[01:03:04] people over there. And so by the time you're building real estate, if you're in a Shia area,
[01:03:10] you are very insecure and you're building your homes very thick walls. You've got gun slits on
[01:03:17] all, I mean, you're ready for any minute that government's going to roll up and take your house.
[01:03:22] So you're, it's like siege warfare in a neighborhood. Everyone is ready for what's going on. I mean,
[01:03:29] the glass that was embedded in the concrete when you crawled over the walls, I mean, it was a very
[01:03:35] insecure culture. But Najaf was that Easter uprising. If you go to Arlington Cemetery in
[01:03:41] section 60, April 8th and 9th, you will see casualties from Ramadi, Fallujah, Diyala Province,
[01:03:53] Bakuaba, Sader City, Mosul. That's really when everything started was in that, and that one week
[01:04:00] in April from the Marines dealing with the Vigil Resolve and what they tried to do in Ramadi and
[01:04:06] Fallujah, they had to be basically, I mean, they were successful. They took the, but you had Al Jazeera
[01:04:14] and Al Arabia TV and the idea of civilians. Everything became a PR war and it started with,
[01:04:22] unfortunately, with Abu. And that horrific story where you had a National Guard unit
[01:04:31] abusing prisoners and it just put fuel on the fire.
[01:04:33] What a freaking horrible IO loss for America with these knuckleheads.
[01:04:43] Now, you remember the contractors, the Blackwater contractors.
[01:04:48] March.
[01:04:49] That happens. Where are you when that happens?
[01:04:52] So first of True Division's first brigade was brought in April of 04 for the Fallujah
[01:04:58] fight with the Marines. And again, AMBAR was, 82nd Airborne hands off AMBAR Province in April of 04.
[01:05:07] And the Marines take over AMBAR. There's really no, the army that is allowed, they're there
[01:05:16] blocking positions, support. It's not an army mission anymore when AMBAR is run by the Marine
[01:05:22] Corps. We've got the rest of the country and there's a whole lot to do, by the way. But all the
[01:05:26] attention is on the, I used to love that. In 06 when I went to Ramadi, when you were out there,
[01:05:32] it was, you couldn't say AMBAR Province, you had to say restive AMBAR Province. The restive
[01:05:37] AMBAR Province. Everything's like AMBAR Province, like they're eight foot Goliaths.
[01:05:43] They're different people. They're so tough. But AMBAR really is the first domino to fall
[01:05:49] with the pacification of, when the insurgency starts to really fall back, it's the Sons of
[01:05:57] AMBAR. That area though, in 04, the first ID, first brigade comes in to help in Vigil Resolve,
[01:06:06] which is April. And then they basically lose that Fallujah brigade. They pull out of the city.
[01:06:13] And that was a policy too, like just catapult the dead cow over the wall, let them get sick and die.
[01:06:21] We'll wait until April. But because we had N'Joff and we were able to pick up and move,
[01:06:26] that guy Fitz, Colin Fitz was my peer, he was the first squad leader. He got shot in April 8th,
[01:06:34] of 04, in Mukta Day. That kid got shot by three different weapons systems. And what I used to
[01:06:40] love is when a new guy would show up, I'd be like, the AK-74 is a different ballistic. Let me show
[01:06:46] you on his elbow. And he got hit by the 762 by 39, the PKM, which is the bigger 762 by what,
[01:06:55] 51? 54? 54. And the 74 is what, a 545? I think so, yeah. So that was the baby. But all three, so
[01:07:06] we were getting popped with, and we took out, I think over a two-day period, we took out 160.
[01:07:14] And they saw that that Bradley fighting vehicle was not to play with. It was not to play with.
[01:07:21] And COACS 25 go to N'Joff, show that we can work well with Marines. That puts a pin on a board
[01:07:30] where someone says, hey, I want to take Fallujah. How are we going to do it? Give me those Army
[01:07:36] 27 from Armored First Cab and 22 and 163 from our first ID. And so we were just there to help
[01:07:43] out the Marines in a block, one wing, and ended up being something a little bit bigger than that.
[01:07:49] But that's how we got our street cred. You got an interesting exchange in here in the book
[01:07:55] that I was very, very stoked to see. You say that's the map board hung on otherwise jailhouse bare
[01:08:03] walls right beside my cot and the homemade crucifix that held my helmet and body armor,
[01:08:07] no photos of home near my space, just the board with three maps of our area of operations,
[01:08:13] one depicting the road net, one depicting the political demographics, and one topographic.
[01:08:18] Surrounding them were the latest satellite and overhead images that Lieutenant Colonel
[01:08:22] Newell's Intel shop had pushed down to us. Hackworth says we need to outmouge the mouge.
[01:08:30] The hell does that mean? Work harder, stay out longer, be ferocious, never let them outwork us,
[01:08:36] dig in sometimes, take the high ground when possible, grab rooftops without turning the
[01:08:41] lights on in a house, never do the same thing twice. I wish I'd never given you that damn book.
[01:08:47] Lieutenant Colonel David Hackworth had been a staff guy in Vietnam writing counterinsurgency
[01:08:51] manuals in the Pentagon when he was ordered to put his theories into practice. He was sent to
[01:08:56] Southeast Asia and given command of the worst battalion in theater. He transformed it into a
[01:09:01] Viet Cong threshing machine known as the hardcore Rekondos. They damaged the enemy every time they
[01:09:07] left the wire. Fitz had given me Hackworth's memoir, Steal My Soldier's Hearts Before We Left
[01:09:13] Vilsack, which is where you are in Germany. I read it and absorbed its lessons. Then one day
[01:09:18] at Normandy, I sent him a random fanboy email through his publisher and agent. So you sent an
[01:09:25] email to Hackworth's, you know, publisher. He responded. He was in Mexico dying of bladder
[01:09:32] cancer. Without violating operational security, I sketched out our situation and asked what he
[01:09:37] would do. He offered excellent advice like a tactical dear abbey. We corresponded often.
[01:09:45] And this is what he wrote. You never let them outwork you and you will never be ambushed again.
[01:09:48] Your men will bitch. They will hate you. But in 20 years when you are all older, they will realize
[01:09:53] how much they appreciated the attention you paid to the details of war. Work harder. Do your best
[01:10:00] to leave enemy where you killed him. If your command makes you police up the dead, make him
[01:10:04] bleed enough for his buddies to know what happened there. Send the message. Mess with us and get
[01:10:10] wrecked. They shall fear our ferocity. I don't know if you know, but this book right here
[01:10:20] about face. I ended up writing the Ford for the new release of that book. Oh, it's classic.
[01:10:25] Yeah. I'm a huge and so the fact that he responded. Yeah, that's like, I was it would have been
[01:10:32] smart enough to email my well. And his ability to because his whole thing in Vietnam and again,
[01:10:38] Vietnam, we didn't invent counterinsurgency. Obviously, that's what we're doing. Vietnam
[01:10:44] outmouge the moose is what he would say because he was always talking about out Kong, the, you know,
[01:10:49] out enemy and out, you know, G the G out. Yeah, exactly. And I was out gorilla the gorilla. And
[01:10:55] so, you know, they're disciplined. We're more disciplined. But if you, you know, again, we
[01:11:01] were doing this thing where I would dismount out of a Bradley and I would see an ID. And I'm like,
[01:11:07] well, we dismounted because they saw the tracks there. So we're not just like they do with the
[01:11:12] Blackhawks. Fake land, fake land. We're gonna do that with the brads. You know, dismount left,
[01:11:19] ramp goes down, no one gets out. We drive around for another couple of kilometers, dismount more,
[01:11:23] no one gets out. Sometimes we stay in the Bradley. Sometimes we leave on the first, the third, the
[01:11:28] fourth, whatever, never ever egress the, you know, leave the battlefield the same spot that you
[01:11:34] dismounted and you would walk up on these guys and and the feeling you get after, you know,
[01:11:41] you're cold. I mean, people tell you it's 50 degrees. What was 120 during the day?
[01:11:46] I mean, that's a huge drop in temperature and you're cold and you're miserable. And
[01:11:50] even though the smokers couldn't smoke, we wouldn't let the dippers dip. You know, everyone's gonna
[01:11:56] suck together. But when you get, you know, when you get the enemy and you knock them cold and
[01:12:03] they don't even see you coming, there is Christmas Day is a beautiful day that we all love and get
[01:12:08] excited about. But when you can shoot a terrorist that doesn't know you're there, it is the greatest
[01:12:14] feeling in the universe to pop a guy who's like loading a fuse on an RPG. That is the greatest
[01:12:22] experience in the world. You're going to try to hurt us, kill us. And you don't even know we're
[01:12:26] there. That was, I took, I took the counter ID counter ambush missions. They were the most
[01:12:34] important part of my life. And I was just absolutely almost to a point where, you know, it was a
[01:12:40] little bit of obsessive compulsive about, Hey, the tankers got hit, got hit over here. They were
[01:12:45] using propane and bouncing a propane tank up to hit these guys at chest deflate. There would be
[01:12:54] mobility kills, but they would wait. You would see a van with a bunch of camera equipment.
[01:13:02] We're doing a wedding. I want to see the video. I don't think you're doing a wedding.
[01:13:06] A casket. You want to talk about the big, I remember the day that I pulled my, my testicles out
[01:13:14] metaphorically. It was the most brazen thing I've ever done in my life. They didn't ever want us to
[01:13:19] interact. You know, you're having a funeral, a wedding, women are respected, respect the culture.
[01:13:26] It was time I asked someone to open up a casket. And that took as, because I'm telling you that
[01:13:33] could have been the end right there, but it just, it didn't seem right. It didn't seem right.
[01:13:38] So what was in it?
[01:13:40] A body. Unfortunately, I guessed wrong on that one, but, but I was, I was thinking this is where I
[01:13:48] carry munitions. I would, I would do a fake funeral. I do it because they show up at the grave.
[01:13:55] Nejof, you saw this in the cemetery all the time. You know, are you burying a body? You know,
[01:14:00] but you had to think like that and you're going to be wrong and you're going to, you're going to
[01:14:04] make a mistake, but your guys are not thinking like that. And, and we had to think outside of the box
[01:14:11] to be able to, to, to fight the enemy the way we had to, but I, I guess wrong on that one. But I,
[01:14:18] there wasn't a wedding. I got the wedding vote right there. They were filming us at checkpoints.
[01:14:24] I got that right.
[01:14:24] Uh, you mentioned Fitz. You talk about Fitz here. I remember watching Fitz get hit over and over
[01:14:30] again, limping, dragging himself to cover, still shooting as he moved. When he went down, I thought
[01:14:35] he was dying. It was like a tectonic shift seeing him like that. My world rocked when Fitz was gone,
[01:14:42] back at hospital, somewhere safe. I'd never felt more alone. No one gave us status reports on our
[01:14:49] wounded, healthy looking guys who got evacuated, died. Men like Tyler Pruitt, a tanker, medic whose
[01:14:55] foot was mangled by a rocket that struck his home. These door, we raced to the scene, cleared the LZ
[01:15:00] for a dust off. They loaded him onto the medivac. There was no sense of sudden urgency. He was a
[01:15:05] medic and treated his own wound. The morphine induced smile and a go kill that piece of shit.
[01:15:11] Thumbs up. He was fine. Pruitt's war was over. My squad found the plastic chair, the insurgent
[01:15:17] used to ambush them. My squad went through hell to track this guy. Murder hornets, giant orange
[01:15:23] wasps native to that region, stung Joey Swanson more than eight times in the face as he was
[01:15:28] clearing out a cache this guy had had on standby. We stayed well past nighttime in a dense palm
[01:15:34] grove soaked to the bone, heads pounding from dehydration just to maintain the promise of shooting
[01:15:39] this guy for Pruitt. The vegetation was too thick. The trail dried up. Two days later, I was drinking
[01:15:46] a cup of coffee in the chow hall when his platoon sergeant told me that he died of a blood clot.
[01:15:51] This made no sense. I would never have given up for the night if I knew I was tracking Pruitt's
[01:15:56] killer. I would have lived out there for weeks. I was shocked and felt selfish for quitting.
[01:16:03] When Fitz returned to us, it was a Lazarus moment for me. A Lazarus moment for me. I just assumed
[01:16:09] he would be the same as he was before he got hit. But that pipeline, those hospitals, the physical
[01:16:16] debilitation, it always changes a person. I couldn't understand what he was going through. I could see
[01:16:22] his physical pain. Also, he knew the sound of bullet made when it smacked into bone. Every round
[01:16:28] that cracked nearby reminded him of that possibility. He knew the agony of lead mushrooming into your
[01:16:34] muscle fiber. He blinked with every shot expecting impact. Fitz was right. He'd seen that side of
[01:16:41] war that I had missed. The combat support hospitals, the emergency surgeries as men bled out on the
[01:16:48] operating room tables. He'd woken up surrounded by burned, limbless men and women clinging to life
[01:16:54] as the nurses and doctors struggled to patch them together. His war was different. That was the root
[01:17:01] of his caution when he came back to us. It wasn't that he feared that for himself. He feared it for us.
[01:17:09] Fitz feared it for me.
[01:17:16] So there's a next level badass, right? He gets freaking shot with three different types of
[01:17:20] ammunition, gets Kazovac out of the country. And he's still wounded. I mean, he's still messed up.
[01:17:28] And when they say, you know, hey, where do you want to go back to in America? What do you want to do
[01:17:32] for the, you know, for the rest of your recovery? He says, no, send me back to Iraq on the beat of my boys.
[01:17:38] Yeah. And honestly, you know, at this point in my life, I'm, you know, 28. These kids are 18, 19.
[01:17:47] There's a huge cycle of life that you go through at that age. And, you know, with the family and
[01:17:53] responsibilities and young kids, Fitz was in the army much longer than I had been, done more,
[01:18:00] his tactical proficiency, you know, watching him, it was always this, when you have two disembodied
[01:18:07] squads, it's always a race to the objective who gets there first, you know, you don't want to be the
[01:18:11] support element. It's the worst, you know, your local support. And in training, he, they, you know,
[01:18:17] he was the guy, the big personality, the senior squad leader. And every, every, you know,
[01:18:25] rotation we did, his unit was the, always the assault unit. And I second there. And then I'd
[01:18:32] be in the back of it. I'd move my position in the Bradley and the Convoy. I want to be in the back.
[01:18:36] They're going to hit the back. They hit the front. I keep moving. I never, we never got any action.
[01:18:40] And so when, when I learned from him though, was his ability to the elevation on an urban
[01:18:50] battlefield, you know, we talk about little round top and Gettysburg that you're not going to get
[01:18:56] that in the desert scape. You're not going to get that in the Middle East. So we're going to use
[01:19:00] our buildings, but we're also going to be careful not to just go through the front door every time.
[01:19:06] Right. If we can go roof to roof, we'll try that. But we can also find ways that if I've got a
[01:19:13] outer cord on, inner cord on, and I'm around a building, if I can have someone from the outside
[01:19:18] just clear two corners, I can tell that guy coming through the door, worry about corner three and
[01:19:23] four. One and two is good. No one's going to be to your right. No one's going to be your left.
[01:19:28] Focus on what's important. Also, I was obsessed with booby traps, platter charges, doors that
[01:19:37] would blow up, grenades on a handle. And he's like, listen, we had no time for that. It's either
[01:19:43] going to happen or it's not going to happen. I'm like, Fitz, we just heard about a special
[01:19:46] four-in-a-street unit just had a building contained ID. They lost everyone. He's like,
[01:19:50] you tell these 18-year-old kids that there are wires out there that they're going to trip over.
[01:19:55] They're going to think about those wires. The sawgunners aren't going to be looking forward.
[01:20:01] I would go to the classes that Delta Force and Special Forces would train. They take two NCOs
[01:20:06] per company. And guys like you that are just hockey helmets and they'd be like, let's talk
[01:20:15] about this rationally. And you always had one intellect and one just giant, he has eight heads
[01:20:21] on his bicep and he's just there. And the intellect guy would be like, think about this.
[01:20:26] What's the easiest way to move through a building? And they put the flyers up, right? They would
[01:20:32] send someone forward. That's what elite people do. Small unit elite folks that have the training
[01:20:38] will do that. We're not elite, right? We're not going, you go into a house and find a cookbook
[01:20:45] and leave. One guy has a bullet in his head. There's a family of seven. They don't even know dad's
[01:20:50] dead and the cookbook is missing. That's what you do. We don't do that. We're high intensity.
[01:20:55] Know your role, know your lane, know your skill level and master it. Just master what you do.
[01:21:02] We have to strong wall. We have to have one firewall, keep all of our fire contained. And you
[01:21:08] know what? If it takes a break, a 20, you know, I remember the first time I got in a house fight
[01:21:14] way before and thank God our crescendo to violence was graduated because if we would have gone to
[01:21:21] Fallujah, it would have been over. We had engaged at close quarters. We had taken targets out in
[01:21:27] buildings and every single time to be a new twist and we learned from those twists and it allowed
[01:21:32] us to mature. So by the end of the rotation when Fallujah happened, we were ready. But I remember
[01:21:37] my team leader took a shot. Saw Gunner took a shot and I was saying I was still giving the
[01:21:46] hand at our signal. We're like clear, clear, clear. Like, bro, you just dropped a guy, you know.
[01:21:53] They know you're here. You know, after you shot the guy in the living room, I think the guy upstairs
[01:21:58] is aware. Maybe the Americans are here. You know, there's no point in whispering. There's no point.
[01:22:03] You know, the old days, you know, a rolling tee in a hallway or you'd see a couch or refrigerator
[01:22:10] and it'd be like, OK, I'm going to open one, two. Like, why would I open an refrigerator door like
[01:22:15] that? You know, to be like, this is what they trade. This is what they taught. It's all horseshit.
[01:22:20] Put a round through. Put a round through the couch. Put a round through the curtain.
[01:22:25] Don't even bother with the crazy. The other thing was, I found, in a minefield,
[01:22:31] they were Italian tow poppers. I never even seen a landmine in my life. In fact, I thought there
[01:22:38] were RPG fins. I really thought someone had buried like a bunch of cigarettes in an ashtray.
[01:22:44] They just put RPG fins and there's wires connecting them and I'm like, oh my god, oh my god, what do
[01:22:50] I do? What do I do? You know, and so I'm going through like at the range. Everyone turn off
[01:22:55] their electronics, probe their way back and I look and everyone's gone. Everyone got out of the
[01:23:02] danger. I was still there and I'm trying to get underneath one of the mines and put some C4 down
[01:23:07] there and I look over and there's Fitz. Fitz wasn't even near me. He got to me. Here's a guy that
[01:23:15] wants to be in a minefield with me only to tell me as two NCOs that electronic stuff is bullshitting.
[01:23:24] He said, listen, man, I love you. I love what you're doing. You buy the book, but listen,
[01:23:30] we're not getting an EIB here. This is no expert. No one's watching us. Who gives a shit? You know
[01:23:37] what you do with a minefield? Avoid it. Get the hell out of it and avoid it. And then he sat me
[01:23:43] down. He's like, obstacles. Why do you put an obstacle out there? I'm like, well, you're watching
[01:23:48] it. He's like, yes. I'm going to put an obstacle down because I'm going to overwash the obstacle.
[01:23:53] So what does that tell us? Tell someone's here. Someone wants us to go through that.
[01:23:58] Now, let's start to box around these open objectives. Let's think and use what we're learning.
[01:24:05] That's what he did. He gave me that right seat ride every day. And when he left,
[01:24:12] I'm just like, now I'm the guy. And I don't know what the hell. I mean, I was learning a lot too.
[01:24:20] And how long was he gone for? So he had hurt in April, came back in August. So that's a,
[01:24:28] you know, a pretty long, I mean, that was a big chunk. But when he came back, I thought we were
[01:24:34] going to be the, you know, flying Eagles again. I thought we were going to be like a, you know,
[01:24:39] the road warrior tag team. And it was noticeably different. It wasn't that he was afraid. He was
[01:24:46] in the fight all the time, but it was like, let's be smarter about this. You know, there's no need
[01:24:52] to, you know, I love taking the Bradley and bashing it through a building. It was one of my
[01:24:57] favorite things to do. I mean, we're going to, and he's like, what happens if we lose that Bradley?
[01:25:03] And I'm like, we fix it. He's like, okay. In three weeks, when you get the parts,
[01:25:08] I just lost a Bradley. Now guess what? That's one less six guys. And I don't have that firepower.
[01:25:14] We treat that thing with respect. You're not bashing it through anything. I was like, all
[01:25:19] right, okay. Heartbroken over here. Yeah. I was like, well, what am I supposed to do? Like,
[01:25:23] so we started to realize that the guys laying IEDs didn't know the people paying them. And the guys
[01:25:30] wiring it didn't know the people laying it down. So why don't we start digging holes? Why don't we
[01:25:35] start putting IEDs down? Why don't we intercept this machine? The only difference was I wanted
[01:25:43] to kill the bad guy. And Captain Sims wanted Intel for Colonel Newell and the S2 shops. And that's
[01:25:50] the part that broke my brain because I thought we were going to win the war by killing. And
[01:25:57] that's not necessarily the way you went in insurgency. Yeah. So that's a point in the book
[01:26:03] that you talk about is your differences with Captain Sims and how you guys are reconciling
[01:26:09] those differences. He was of the mind, hey, we need to form relationships with a local
[01:26:15] populace. We need to learn from them. We need to support them. We need to keep them safe.
[01:26:19] You were like, hey, we need to kill all these bad guys. And you guys got some tension over that.
[01:26:26] Yeah. I mean, if you could randomly go through a marketplace and every one of these dead guys
[01:26:32] is on our Bolo list, well, isn't that something? It could be that we, the way it was telling you,
[01:26:38] like, well, 2 percent of the population, those are the assholes. The rest of them are good people.
[01:26:43] It's a city of 500,000 people. Yeah. It's a lot of assholes. That's a lot of assholes.
[01:26:46] 2 percent of that's a crazy disproportion of assholes living in a zip code. So he was right.
[01:26:54] And I think history proved that. I think that the counterinsurgency model, the surge,
[01:27:01] occup- the fob is one thing, but the cob was a very successful way to say, look, we're not just
[01:27:07] going to engage in a fight and leave. We're going to live here. We're going to stay here.
[01:27:13] We're going to own the violence and only use the violence when it's when it's necessary.
[01:27:18] I didn't grasp that. I was still thinking Old Testament. I, you know, and so the Iraq war
[01:27:26] in our year in Iraq, counterinsurgency was a huge part of what we were doing. It was very
[01:27:30] early in the beginning of implementing that, but Fallujah was not a counterinsurgency war.
[01:27:35] Ramadi was not that type of fight. Now you had some incidents that really kind of brought this
[01:27:42] to a head. A couple incidents that really brought this to a head with Captain Sims. One was this
[01:27:46] giant guy that comes walking down the street. You guys are in a position and this guy comes
[01:27:52] walking some Iraqi. He comes walking down the street. He's got a freaking sword. And
[01:27:59] talk us through, talk us through what happened there. Look, I would always be shocked that I
[01:28:05] would see a 12 year old Iraqi and he looked like a six year old back in the United States.
[01:28:09] They wasn't a well fed population and you don't see giant. This guy was like six, eight,
[01:28:16] three, 30. I mean, he was a big, the corn fed big dude. And he was just acting crazy. Now we
[01:28:24] knew people were doing drugs. We'd gone, you know, you deal with all of that. You got the
[01:28:31] drunks, whether they're alcohol policies or liberal or conservative, people are still drinking.
[01:28:35] 100%. People are still doing drugs. But this guy was at a, and we were getting so many,
[01:28:41] there was this weird schizophrenia going on in the military at that time, at least in the army,
[01:28:46] where we wanted to kill the enemy to get on a report. But you also wanted to win hearts and
[01:28:52] minds and have us quiet area. So if you're going to have allowed a fight that showed up on some
[01:28:58] generals radar, you wanted it to be a fight where Americans were killing bad guys and not getting
[01:29:04] killed. You never wanted the report of, you know, you lost 10 guys and you killed maybe 20. You
[01:29:10] wanted to be overwhelming so that if you got on a general's desk, it was because you guys were
[01:29:15] badass and killing. And the other side was you wanted nothing on the report because that meant
[01:29:21] you were doing your job and there was nothing happening. So we found that the first infantry
[01:29:26] division was, you know, doing a pretty good job of eliminating, all I have to was when we really
[01:29:34] started to see the enemy being attritted through special forces and other units of Marines and
[01:29:40] Ambar and everyone else. And there was this weird at a boy, you're making us proud, you know,
[01:29:47] you know, colonels are going to get stars based on that. But then you had the guys on the ground
[01:29:52] and in the S shops and in the Intel and they were like, and the SF guys who were like, you know,
[01:29:58] we're just going to stir the hornet's nest. I mean, our green Berets were like, I'm going to go
[01:30:02] piss off about 500 people. And then we're going to call you boys in to just, you know, that's what
[01:30:09] they did. They would go into an area. We took a bad guy out. We surgically removed someone, but
[01:30:15] they have like 40 friends. Hey, you guys go handle that. And this was the relationship.
[01:30:21] This giant, it was a day when we had a big wig fly in and was looking at the area and they're like,
[01:30:27] no contact. Just this is going to be one night where you're just going to new Testament, you
[01:30:33] know, turn your orders are go out there and just do no, no gunfire. Don't, don't, don't get in a gun
[01:30:39] fight. Don't get me. Can you do me a favor, bell? No, don't, don't gunfight tonight. That's what
[01:30:43] you get told. And it was legit. And it was all the way down. And I had no intention to get in a
[01:30:47] gunfight, but the guy's six foot eight. I'm not, you know, Gracie trained, you know what I'm saying?
[01:30:53] I don't have the cauliflower ears and I don't have the, but I learned enough to know, you know,
[01:30:59] if I hit a guy and I pop him good or I use my helmet, you know, a buttstock, something I could,
[01:31:07] I could subdue someone and I got enough guys to zip tie him. This guy was like, he was huge.
[01:31:14] I mean, he was huge. And it got to the point where I had no choice. I slung a Mossberg and I
[01:31:20] had an M four. And when he was, he had my Mossberg and it was slung on my IBA. So when, you know,
[01:31:30] he had, he had positive control over my shotgun and, and we had to put him down and, and it was
[01:31:36] just, he was really angry. And the guy had a mental issue. So he's, he's a community local guy that
[01:31:46] everyone loves and adores. He's a big, gentle giant. But, you know, whether he was drunk or high or
[01:31:53] both or who knows, but it destroyed the community. It destroyed our relationships with the community.
[01:31:59] And it's the weird juxtaposition of combat where a soldier could be honorable and protect his people.
[01:32:08] And a bad guy could be beloved and a really good guy too. But when those paths cross,
[01:32:16] it's what comes, it's why wars, you know, wars hell.
[01:32:19] Yeah. One of the terms I learned from the count from my army counterparts in
[01:32:24] in Ramadi was good shot, bad result. Meaning like, Hey, this guy, whatever was wrong, he was drunk
[01:32:31] or whatever, acting crazy. And you wish it could go a different way. But here's this guy, you try
[01:32:38] and subdue him. He fights now he's fighting you. Now you're fighting a guy that's six foot eight,
[01:32:44] whatever, 300 pounds. Now all of a sudden he has your shotgun. And there's just like this,
[01:32:51] this is just what's going to happen. You have to kill this guy. If I walked away from it,
[01:32:54] now he's I mean, how many times I've had, we had kids that would give, you know,
[01:33:00] numbers and four vehicles, five pack come in this way. And, you know, we had leaders that were like,
[01:33:06] under no circumstances will you engage children at all. Hey, I don't want that on my conscious,
[01:33:12] no one does. But they're also giving away our position. So if I'm not going to engage him,
[01:33:19] you know, lethal, we're going to take this kid down and get him out of. If you let a guy in
[01:33:25] the battlefield, you know, point out where everyone is, and you're giving away everything. So he has
[01:33:33] to be confronted, whether or not what the means you confront him are the way. But when you're
[01:33:39] throwing a sword around, and you're cutting soldiers and swinging it, you know, again,
[01:33:45] I got myself in that situation. I shouldn't have I did I found myself in that spot. I had to get
[01:33:50] myself out of it. We did. But I learned a lot of lessons and lessons are that, you know,
[01:33:57] when the orders are no shooting, you avoid it. You're not in the open. You go into you take
[01:34:04] a house down, you get on a rooftop. You're not standing in the street. You're not pulling security
[01:34:09] the way we did. Had Fitz been there, I don't think that would have happened. But he wasn't.
[01:34:14] And, you know, it happened. And again, there's a look, I'm reading little excerpts of this book.
[01:34:20] This book is a is an incredible book. Just there's so much in here. There's there's entire story
[01:34:26] lines in this book that we're not even touching on in what we're going to talk about today. So
[01:34:31] if you're listening, just get the book. It'll really help you. This part is one of the stories,
[01:34:38] one of the storylines about this sort of differences in thought between you and Captain
[01:34:45] Sims. And just just given some more about Captain Sims here, just to give some background on him.
[01:34:54] You say this Sims walked like a man who had a bolder on his back but was too proud and stubborn
[01:34:59] to admit the weight was crushing him. Upright shoulder square, he made his way to us. In some
[01:35:05] ways, I suppose taking Alpha Company into Fallujah was his destiny all along. He was the son of an
[01:35:10] army officer who survived two tours in Vietnam. His uncle also fought in Vietnam, completed two tours
[01:35:17] and was disabled by wounds received there. His grandfather was a 36 year two war veteran of
[01:35:23] our beloved service. Sean had been born in Taiwan, went to high school in Korea, came home for college
[01:35:30] to the country his family had given their lives to defend. Sims had been a high achiever, never
[01:35:37] type a but rather a devoted, studious and introspective officer with plenty of grit. He
[01:35:43] checked all the boxes, Pathfinder and airborne school, Ranger school, armor officer school,
[01:35:51] at infantry officers basic, he had been the platoon's top graduate. Along with the weight of
[01:35:56] leading a company into the worst urban hellscape US forces had experienced since Way City Vietnam
[01:36:03] in 1968. Captain Sean Sims carried the legacy of his family's heritage on his shoulders as well.
[01:36:14] There's a lot, a lot for this guy to be, you know, doing. Yeah, you know, I love West Point and
[01:36:23] Annapolis are great institutions, but so many of these ROTC guys, you know, they've
[01:36:29] officers are officers and the good ones, you know, you learn a lot from bad leaders without a doubt,
[01:36:35] you know, you learn what's what you don't want to be. But the good ones, sometimes that seed gets
[01:36:40] planted and it grows and bears fruit 20 years later. And I guess having someone that's so
[01:36:48] intellectual and forward thinking that he's like, there's a way that we can fight wars and not lose
[01:36:54] our soul. I would have mortgaged my soul. I mean, honestly, if you would have told me,
[01:37:01] this is going to be the future, but you can control the present and save lives and bring
[01:37:07] everyone home and be successful. What would you be willing to give? I would have given you everything,
[01:37:14] everything. I don't care about being 40. I don't think I'm going to make it to 29.
[01:37:20] No one's thinking about, you know, no one's buying a 30 year mortgage when they're deploying to
[01:37:25] Ramadi. You're not, you're not looking at the future. You're looking at now and to have these
[01:37:30] people that were like, listen, there's a way to do this. There's a way to do it. When a new soldier
[01:37:37] came in, I wanted them to see the enemy, especially if we killed the enemy. That is, that's something
[01:37:46] that if you're not accustomed to, you know, moving a body off the battlefield, why is that important?
[01:37:52] It's a, there's a reverence. We're not out there, cowboys. We're not disrespecting the enemy. We
[01:37:59] respect the enemy. It's, it's, it's, there's a holy relationship between combatants on the
[01:38:05] battlefield. And you have to respect the enemy, but you also have to acknowledge that there is
[01:38:10] something special about what is going to be needed for you to be able to go home, walk off, more
[01:38:16] importantly, win the objectives that were there to win. Right? So, so I can't have a guy brand new
[01:38:23] in the country who sees a body and completely, you know, comes unglued. This, this is a part of
[01:38:30] the business. So here's the deal. I don't need you to be on point for the first two weeks, but I
[01:38:35] need you to follow up and I need you to know what it's like to have a rifle crack next to your ear.
[01:38:41] I need to know what it's like to be near a firefight, even if you don't do anything because
[01:38:47] you're brand new. But when that, when the aftermath and we go through that limit of advance and we
[01:38:52] cross that battlefield, I want you to pick them up. I want you to put them in the bag. I want you
[01:38:57] to own this because this is all of our actions and, and this is something you're going to have to get
[01:39:03] accustomed to and the reverence you show, the reverence you show because I, nothing would
[01:39:09] infuriate me as much as I would want to poke, you know, I'd end your life if you disrespected one of
[01:39:16] our fallen. I mean, that's, that's unforgivable. But I also was highly defensive over the way the
[01:39:24] enemy was treated as well. We're not savages. We're not Russians. We're not Chinese. We're not
[01:39:31] Mujahideen. We're American soldiers. We'll conduct ourselves that way. We're professionals and you
[01:39:37] will show respect to the enemy. We're going to kill them. And if they're dumb enough to raise kids,
[01:39:43] my boy is going to kill your boy too. That's just who we are. But there's a way that you
[01:39:48] respect the enemy on the battlefield and, and understanding that, you know, this idea, they're
[01:39:52] meat. They're just, you know, leave them out there to rot, leave them out there to be, you know,
[01:39:57] whatever. There's a time when that's unacceptable. Civilians have to know we're the good guys.
[01:40:04] We're always going to be the good guys in any circumstance.
[01:40:08] So now we're advancing through this deployment and now you guys find out you're going to Fallujah.
[01:40:15] How does that take place as far as are you starting to prepare in any particular way?
[01:40:20] And what's the timeframe between you guys getting tasked with going to Fallujah and actually
[01:40:25] getting there and, and like what, what timeframe did you get tasked?
[01:40:30] We were supposed to go to Mosul. That was the first rumor mill and Charlie Company ends up
[01:40:36] going instead of us. But we know that we're going to be used again. I understand, you know, April
[01:40:42] 04 and the Jaff that was supposed to be the fight. The fight didn't happen until August.
[01:40:47] So the army command is realizing that this is the year we got to start doing something
[01:40:52] or we're just going to be kicking the can down the road. And Fallujah was really depending on
[01:40:56] the presidential election between Bush and Kerry. The fight was supposed to happen in October.
[01:41:02] You know, it's politics. The elect, we're not going to fight a major battle before an election.
[01:41:07] It'll look bad. Wait until after the presidential election. So that was November 8th that year.
[01:41:13] And so we knew that we had our orders. You know what's happening in the army by how good your food
[01:41:19] automatically becomes. And you know how, you know, something shitty is coming because like,
[01:41:25] hey, let's redo their cell hall. Let's get these boys some toilets, you know, they deserve cable.
[01:41:30] They're, and so all of a sudden we start getting brown and root people and electricity. We had
[01:41:35] power. We didn't have water. And all of a sudden, all these things start happening. We're like,
[01:41:40] uh-oh. And then like, we had problems with vehicles for a very long time. And all of a sudden,
[01:41:46] like a GS 15 master carpenter is like, I could fix your rooms and, you know, you want a new gun
[01:41:54] tube for that Abrams. I've got four in the truck. You know, they were fixing everything.
[01:41:58] And then everything, I was like, Hey, can I, we were at one point on a bullet count, right?
[01:42:05] At one point we had to be like, how you got a every day come up with a certain amount of bullets
[01:42:11] so that we're not, you know, we know who's shooting what when it was all part of the reporting.
[01:42:17] And then there was a time when they were just like, Hey, what do you want? Do you want claymores?
[01:42:23] I'm like, do I want claymores? Are you kidding me? Palates of C4. I have no, you know what I did?
[01:42:29] I, so we had engineers, the new task force of the army, platoon engineers, platoon attack,
[01:42:34] platoon infantry, let's go fight, you know, the global G.I.
[01:42:41] We, these engineers are brilliant. They're the intellects of the combat arms guys, right? They
[01:42:45] have the prescription glasses that are fashionable. You know what I mean? They're super smart and our
[01:42:51] 82nd engineers are great, but they're showing me like a Gatorade bottle. And they're like,
[01:42:56] All right, so we're going to put the C4 in the bottom and put some cardboard. And what do you
[01:43:01] got? Uh, links, uh, shell casings, whatever you have, that's the metal. We're going to put a timing
[01:43:09] doubt. Listen, debt cord, timing fuse. They're different, right? Okay. So I'm just there like,
[01:43:16] you know, writing all this down and no idea what the hell I'm doing. I'm like, well, these guys
[01:43:20] said I could use shell casings and links. Why don't I just throw bullets at these things? I mean,
[01:43:25] that would be a combat multiplier. It explodes and a bullet comes out. Wow. That is a horrible idea.
[01:43:33] That is a horrible idea. So now you got live rounds. It's like,
[01:43:37] you're also thrown on a bonfire too while we're at it. You know, just mindlessness.
[01:43:42] But at the same time, I remember these claymores. I had these claymores and I'm like, okay, the
[01:43:46] cord is way too short for a claymore. And so I'm like, I wanted to start 100 mile an hour taping
[01:43:52] claymores to IDs we found, right? Because I figured that'll be, you know, get in a ditch,
[01:43:59] clickety-clack and blow up the IDs. I mean, EOD was like the Easter Bunny. I mean, we heard it
[01:44:06] existed. No one's actually seen the Easter Bunny. It was like a Sasqua. When I saw Hurtlocker, I'm
[01:44:11] like, shut up. Where were those dudes? I've never seen an EOD, a robot, a guy in a suit. They're
[01:44:20] amazing. God bless them. But they were always EOD is here. You waited for two days for EOD to show
[01:44:26] up. And I'm like, I don't got time for this. Let me just show me enough. I'll blow it up myself.
[01:44:31] So I got my C4. I got my blasting cap. And then I got to crimp the blasting cap. And I'm like,
[01:44:39] crimp. When you say crimp, you mean what now? He's, oh, you crimped too hard. I'm like, I crimped too
[01:44:45] hard. He's like, just crimp it enough. I'm learning like, how many ticks do I need? How many should I,
[01:44:54] and so I'm getting myself some really, really stupid. I'm getting nervous over on this.
[01:44:58] It's so dumb. It's so dumb. And you teach it. It's like, give a monkey a hand grenade.
[01:45:05] And so we got to the point where I had these claymores and I thought, I've got all these alleyways.
[01:45:12] I'm going to spray paint the backs orange so I could see them. I'm going to take,
[01:45:20] I'm going to take a 100 mile an hour cord and I'm going to time to the top of buildings.
[01:45:26] So if a guy is coming through an alleyway, I'm not going to wait. I don't want to pull security in
[01:45:30] every alley on a building. It's like the Alamo. We got to defend ourselves. I'm just going to
[01:45:35] clack a claymore when a guy's running underneath it, right? Not realizing that the little prongs
[01:45:42] on the claymore are actually supposed to be in the ground for stability. So it's like a claymore.
[01:45:49] Then when you dangle it on cord, it's like, it's like, it's nighttime. So we're like,
[01:45:55] which way is it facing? So the first time, man, it happened and it's, that's like,
[01:46:03] you know, going to the zoo and you got that two hour window with a line is awake. You know what
[01:46:09] I mean? You're like super excited. You're like gathering the kids and like, hey, hey, hey,
[01:46:13] so when you hear that, like that the windbreaker pants and you just, you're like spidey sense.
[01:46:21] Everything's like, oh, this is real. This is happening here. They come,
[01:46:24] the bad guys come in and they come through the aisle and the alleyway. And I'm like, okay,
[01:46:29] okay. All right. Now it's like, do I hit it immediately? Do I wait? What's, you know, now
[01:46:35] you're nervous and you, but you're the NCO. So you're trying to be like, guys, let's not get
[01:46:39] nervous. But you're the one that's not enough. You're like, I'm my command, but it's just everyone
[01:46:44] okay? Everyone drinking? Everyone's good. How's home? Did you talk to mom? You know, they're like
[01:46:48] wasted time. I finally get the point. I'm like, all right, I'm ready. Go. And this thing just,
[01:46:54] I mean, there's 700 of those 32 calibers in that thing, 700. And that thing just went flying in
[01:47:04] the air. I mean, flying in the air, like it was, it could have taken the satellite out. It was the
[01:47:09] dumbest thing in the world. And it was like throwing a bomb in the air, just like launching,
[01:47:15] like spin decaying 40 millimeters right over your head. And they were like, what, what did you think
[01:47:21] was going to happen? But I thought it was just like, you know, like a top attack artillery
[01:47:27] round. But I'll tell you what, not only was that alarming for us, that guy must have shit his pants.
[01:47:35] I'm sure that guy's in dental school, changed his life around. He got out of there, went back to
[01:47:39] the Philippines and as a productive member. But no, you want to think outside the box,
[01:47:45] sometimes you get a little too much knowledge and it could burn you.
[01:47:48] Right. All right, let's get into, let's get into flusia a little bit.
[01:47:56] Now, so for this, I'm going to the book, House to House, and I'll tell you what,
[01:48:02] the arc of the writing and the thought process between these two books is amazing to see. So
[01:48:10] you you had written this one, it came out in 2007. Is that right? Right. So you'd written it maybe
[01:48:16] 2005, 2006, something like that. So you're fresh off the battlefield. And you're writing this book
[01:48:24] and it is an unbelievable account. It's really, it's just an unbelievable account of you and your
[01:48:31] guys. And then, you know, just to finish what I'm talking about, the way that arc goes into,
[01:48:36] remember the Ramrods, your new book, you can see how much you thought about it, how much,
[01:48:42] well, just the perspective of getting older and time and the way everything's impacted.
[01:48:48] And when you look back what it looks like now, but to be able to sit for me and read these two books
[01:48:57] and just see that arc is incredible. So for anybody that's listening, both books,
[01:49:03] they're both incredible books, get them. This is going to the book, it's House to House,
[01:49:09] an epic memoir of war. And you say this, I meet with Sims, Ewan and Fitz for a final briefing.
[01:49:19] We roll out the will roll out in the morning and our mission is now defined. Sims details
[01:49:22] the assault plan and explains our jobs with step by step precision. Each platoon will play a
[01:49:27] different part in the initial attack. Feluja is a city designed for siege warfare. And you talked
[01:49:32] about that earlier. Architecture aside, the insurgents have had months to prepare for this
[01:49:37] battle. They've dug fighting positions, mined the streets, booby trapped the houses, built bunkers
[01:49:42] and cleared fields of fire. Every road into the city is strong pointed mind and blocked with
[01:49:48] captured Texas barriers. Feluja is shaping up to be the veredune of the war on terror.
[01:49:54] We face a battle of attrition fought within a maze of interlocking fortresses.
[01:49:59] Attrition is such a sterile word. We'll be trading our lives for theirs. Sims makes it clear that our
[01:50:07] initial objectives will be heavily defended. The insurgents have deployed foreign fighters on the
[01:50:12] city's approaches. They form the outer crust of their defense in depth. So we'll face them first.
[01:50:18] Intelligence reports tell us that we'll face Syrians, Iranians, Saudis, Filipinos, even Italians
[01:50:25] and Chessians. They've they're well trained, ideologically motivated and armed with ample
[01:50:31] ammunition and equipment. They've trained for years to kill us infidels. Some have cut their
[01:50:37] teeth in Cheshna, Afghanistan and Somalia. They are veterans just like us, a regular Islamist
[01:50:44] all star team. We can expect possibly 30% attrition at an urban breach like this Sims tells us.
[01:50:52] I've been writing down everything Sims has said. Now I pause and stare at the initial casualty
[01:50:58] estimate 30% just to get into the city. There's no way we can keep everyone alive. Once inside the
[01:51:04] city, obviously we will we will not use the main roads. They are all heavily IED. Our lead tracks
[01:51:11] must create their own paths with help from the engineers. Look over the maps. We'll have to
[01:51:17] improvise most of these routes. I'm not going to rattle off with the acceptable attrition as according
[01:51:22] to command gentlemen, we'll seize highway 10 and push into the industrial district. Expect some of
[01:51:28] the heaviest fighting in this area. Foreign jihadists will use hit and run tactics, but there are
[01:51:34] enough fighters in the city for them to have a mobile reserve. We could face counterattacks
[01:51:39] during the first day. The enemy has the forces to mass against us. There will be no call to
[01:51:46] no calling in medivac chop choppers once you're in the city. It'll be too hot for blackhawks.
[01:51:51] We'll have to ground a vac our casualties to this clover leaf east of the cities.
[01:51:56] East of the city. End quote. The bad news continues as Captain Sims closes his laptop and turns to us.
[01:52:05] We expect the insurgents of stockpiled drugs will be facing fighters hopped up on dope again.
[01:52:11] I look over at Fitz and I know what he's thinking. If this is true, these guys are going to be hard
[01:52:19] to kill. So that is a freaking that is a that is a bout as a heart of a brief to sit there and listen
[01:52:30] to bunkers, IEDs, booby traps, interlocking fields of fire, strong pointed buildings. I mean, this
[01:52:38] is just for anybody that's not that hasn't been in the military that doesn't understand the the
[01:52:45] litany of enemy power that I just went through. You can't make it any worse.
[01:52:53] Not going to get any harder than what what I just read. Well, and the thing goes that it was that day
[01:52:58] was the first day that we realized we're actually going in. I mean, we thought that the Marines
[01:53:02] were going to do we had Iraqi intervention forces and Marines. And we were just on the flags, provide,
[01:53:08] you know, because it was the the the feign, the the the fake invasion. Seals had gone in on the
[01:53:15] day that we were taken down. Fallujah and took the hospital out. And once the hospital was isolated,
[01:53:20] there was a one road that connects intersex. Fallujah Highway 10, right? And so you've got a northern
[01:53:27] side, which is these homes are all like honeycombs on top of each other. South of Highway 10 is all
[01:53:32] industrial. So there's two completely different ways to do Mount and industrial as dangerous as
[01:53:39] as a living room because it's wide open. Anything can happen. But it was so crazy that
[01:53:46] he was giving us an attrition number. And then he was like, I'm not going to tell you what command
[01:53:50] is expecting. So we're starting to think this is a Normandy beach landing. This is the Higgins boats
[01:53:56] doors. You know, the ramp is very similar to a Bradley. The Higgins boats coming down and you're
[01:54:01] just going to get whatever if you can get to a foothold, hold it and let the Marines come through.
[01:54:07] And then it's on it's on them, right? That's that's pretty much the way we're looking at this. And I
[01:54:13] thought to myself, do I share that with my guys? Do I take that back to the platoon? Do there was
[01:54:20] a time early in the deployment? My platoon sergeant is a guy from Missouri who it's I mean,
[01:54:27] if you went to central casting to find a platoon sergeant, I write in the book House to House that
[01:54:33] he learned to kill anything that could shit outdoors at like four. If you if you took a dump
[01:54:39] outside, this guy could kill a game. Yeah. And he would send these deer videos. His mom would
[01:54:45] send him deer hunting videos and a deployment. And I started watching them. And there was a
[01:54:53] moment when a deer hunter will will will be like, hey, and the deer will be like, and and they'll
[01:54:59] take the shot. I was doing that to insurgents where you you couldn't get the shot you wanted
[01:55:05] and just be like, hey, and the guy would be like, whoa, and you just you'd pop them. And I'm like,
[01:55:10] this this works. This is incredible, you know. So he was he was always cool, always like,
[01:55:18] you know, I was a meatball. I thought my first name was Jesus. And my last name was Christ,
[01:55:23] because that's what he said before my name. There was no rank is just Jesus Christ, beloved.
[01:55:28] There was no doubt who was, you know, running this show. It was him. And I remember
[01:55:35] there was a day that he looked called me over to his Bradley, and he was smoking a cigarette.
[01:55:39] And he said, hey, look at me and his face was white. And he was like, I just got I've confirmed it
[01:55:45] three times. No time for bullshit. We've got 200 to 300 white hots coming through this palm
[01:55:54] grove. And they're expecting to be here in about 20 mics. And I was like, impossible. He's like,
[01:56:03] it's orbital platform. This is not a ground surveillance radar. This is orbital platform
[01:56:08] to track them right now. We've got 300 guys, QRF 20 minutes, fast movers 25. That's how much time
[01:56:16] you've got sustain this area for 25 minutes. And I'm like, this has got to be like a candid camera.
[01:56:22] You know, what am I going to do? How am I going to react? And I remember thinking, the guys always
[01:56:28] knew when the spare barrels came out, shit, it was going to be a bad day. When this when you had
[01:56:33] time to set up a T&E and have a spare barrel, it was going to be a bad one. But I thought, I'm not
[01:56:39] going to tell them. I'm not going to tell them. I'm going to prepare like the battle of NTM is
[01:56:46] going to break out. But we're just going to have our mags ready. We're going to have, I'm going to
[01:56:51] set this position up and, you know, we're knocking down. There was a guy's stacked flower up. There
[01:56:57] was like a four rows of flower bags. And I'm like, well, there's position one, right? And, you know,
[01:57:05] get elevation, low, high, ditches, whatever I could find a culvert here, a thing. And we waited,
[01:57:12] and we waited. And finally, the thing was like, Hey, I got the wrong 12 digit. The, you know,
[01:57:18] this is a guy relaying from a sheriff network in like, so someone else is getting, someone's
[01:57:25] getting messed up right now, but it's not you. And I thought to myself, like, that's an incredible
[01:57:30] lesson. Because you either train your guys and you're ready or you're not. Do how important is
[01:57:37] drama? And as a drama major, I can tell you that I'm not very good at it. But I can tell you that
[01:57:44] if you're doing it for the effect, because some leaders need that, this is going to be the worst
[01:57:50] day of a gentleman prepared to defend yourselves, right? That is, that's the line you want to have
[01:57:56] a John Wayne moment. Is that weakness? Is that strength? Do you really, if you're really doing
[01:58:03] your job, let 300 guys come. I'll eat chow. You give me 150 meters to standoff distance.
[01:58:12] And 30 seconds of warning, my guys can eat a burrito. And we're going to, we're going to hold
[01:58:18] this ground. That's what I want out of my force. That's what I want out of my guys. So I thought
[01:58:24] to myself, do I take that information back? And do I tell them, look around the room? Because
[01:58:29] you know that talk, you probably sat through a briefing, look around the room to your left and
[01:58:34] right. Not all of you will make it out of this meeting. You're like, well, everything's dramatic.
[01:58:40] Everything's life and death. And over time, it erodes trust. It erodes fidelity. It erodes swagger. So
[01:58:48] the one thing I wanted to be careful is with families. You know, the family running this group,
[01:58:54] it depends on what unit you're in. Families are all about gossip and you got groups of
[01:59:00] wives that are going to the range and like, you know, they know who's deploying, who's dead.
[01:59:05] It could be, if you don't have a command unit at home, willing to take these casualties and
[01:59:13] handling themselves as pros, you can have some real problems in a unit with just gossip and whatever.
[01:59:19] I hated the people that were calling home. I hated the distractions of bills and kids.
[01:59:28] And I tried as much as I could to just to get them away. I know there's Burger King at the other
[01:59:34] fob. Don't eat it. Don't eat it. I know there's a Pizza Hut at Warhorse and I know they have
[01:59:39] really good food and blue cheese. Don't eat it. I want you to be as miserable as possible,
[01:59:45] not because I hate you, not because I'm insecure and I want to show you my alpha. I want us all
[01:59:52] that when we eat blue cheese, damn it. When we have a whopper, it's going to be because
[01:59:56] there's no more fighting. You earned the whopper. I know your wife and your girlfriend want updates
[02:00:03] and the kids are riding bikes and sugar treating. I don't give a damn about any of that crap going
[02:00:09] on. And if you are thinking about your girlfriend or your wife or what's going on, is Jody coming
[02:00:15] over? What's happening? You are not in this game and you're no good to me. You're no good to me.
[02:00:22] Your focus is on that moose that's cleaning his body of hair, putting it in a bag and saying his
[02:00:29] prayer because he knows he's going to die. He knows he's going to die. When I came home from Iraq
[02:00:35] on leave, I met a Vietnam guy who was a tunnel rat. That's a shit job. That's like the worst
[02:00:41] job of the world, right? And I was complaining to him about how I was mad that the UPS man
[02:00:49] was whistling and happy. And we're going through all this mess. I could see these kids,
[02:00:56] grocery stores, guys and their girlfriends at the mall getting a latte and I'm like,
[02:01:01] these freaking turds. You have no respect. Do you have a limp? Are you stuttering? Why are you
[02:01:09] getting a haircut? Are you too good for your country? Who the hell did the... And I had an
[02:01:15] inferiority complex and this Vietnam vet looks at me and he says, you're going back in a week
[02:01:22] and you know what your problem is? And I'm like, what? He's like, you think you're coming back.
[02:01:28] And I was like, I didn't know what to do. I didn't have spit in my mouth. I didn't know if I should
[02:01:34] crawl into the fetal position or what do you mean? I don't know I'm coming back. He's like,
[02:01:39] no, no, no, no, no. In your head, you're not coming back. If you fight like you're coming back,
[02:01:45] you're going to not make the choices you need to make. You're going to always think about
[02:01:49] someone else. He's like, right now, close your eyes. Casually notification team is talking to
[02:01:55] your little boy. Your mom and dad just changed your star from blue to gold. Do you see it?
[02:02:01] All right, it's over. It's happening. That's your reality. Now, fight. Now, fight. Now, get out there
[02:02:10] and realize it's going to happen. You don't know when it's going to happen. It's going to happen in
[02:02:13] 62. A heart attack on a, you know, jungle gym with the grandkids. It's going to happen tomorrow
[02:02:18] with a bullet through your face. You don't control it. Give in to it. You're not coming back. Fight
[02:02:25] like you're not coming back and you will never lose an inch of ground and you'll never lose a
[02:02:31] soldier because you were afraid to not give them the fight you want. It changed my life. I'm like,
[02:02:36] is that what you, is that why you guys are all insane with your long hair and your weed, your
[02:02:41] wood stock? He's like, that's how we fought. That's how we survived. And that's the only way you can,
[02:02:46] you can make it through. And when I thought about that and I started to live that, I was like, all
[02:02:51] of these things are distractions. I want you to have a wonderful marriage. I want you to have a
[02:02:56] wonderful family, but you're not going to have any of those things. If you're thinking about Halloween
[02:03:02] and about that bike ride, we got to go take care of people that are going. And so we would watch
[02:03:08] Nicholas Berg, the beheading video. Every second of that guy getting his head cut off by Zarkawi
[02:03:16] in Fallujah. Let's watch beheading videos. Let's watch the people in the towers that jumped out
[02:03:23] the windows. The heat was too much. They jumped. That's what we're avenging. That's who we're fighting.
[02:03:30] Every one of these guys cut off Nick Berg's head. Every one of these guys is raping and destroying
[02:03:37] and they killed our citizens on September 11th. That's the mindset. I don't want to hear about
[02:03:42] your family. I don't want to hear about your wife. I don't want to hear about shit. Pay your bills.
[02:03:47] If you don't have a relationship that you can trust someone to pay the cable bill,
[02:03:51] I'm going to make this really easy for you. Re-enlist. Okay. Re-enlist because you're going to need
[02:03:56] the income. Right. We are here to do a job. This is our focus. Anything else is sedition.
[02:04:04] You are committing a crime to me. You're committing a crime to the country because you are here for a
[02:04:09] purpose and I don't give a shit about what your ambition or hope is. Right now it's us.
[02:04:15] I don't. My dad didn't. I didn't know my dad. You had a dad. I don't give a damn.
[02:04:19] We got all these different walks of life and socioeconomic issues. Focus. And that did it.
[02:04:25] That did it. And that's the best possible thing you can do for your troops. I think so. Help so.
[02:04:31] Help so. Hope so.
[02:04:36] Fast forward a little bit. Ramrod's taken me. He calls us into gravely in his gravely
[02:04:44] gravelly southern draw. There are times I think he's speaking a foreign language. His southern
[02:04:48] accent is so indiscernible. It's like a cross between John Wayne and Ross Perot.
[02:04:54] Our task force is known as the Ramrods. Those of us in Alpha Alpha company are the terminators.
[02:04:59] Alpha company forms a horseshoe around Sergeant Major Falkenberg.
[02:05:05] We get down on one knee and wait. At first he says nothing. He spits a wad of red man chewing
[02:05:10] tobacco into the dirt as his eyeball as he eyeballs us with a squint. He takes time to look
[02:05:16] each of us in the eyes. I stare back at him. To me he has always been a seemed as big as a
[02:05:21] grisly bear and twice as scary. But now as I study him I realize he's wiry and short.
[02:05:27] It's the weight of his character that makes him seem so large.
[02:05:31] Men, I could not be more proud of you if you were my own kids.
[02:05:37] We wait for him to continue. He hesitates. He's struggling with his emotions and we see his eyes
[02:05:43] missed up. That sight sends a surge of emotion through me. Part love, part despair, part blind
[02:05:50] loyalty. I couldn't be more proud looking at how far you all have come and what you are about to do.
[02:05:58] He pauses again and lowers his head. His iron self discipline fighting a losing battle with his heart.
[02:06:08] That's all. Go get him. The mechanics and support guys start to cheer. Somebody shouts give him hell.
[02:06:15] Others shout as well. For a moment I can't move. Sergeant Major Falkenberg is our father figure.
[02:06:22] He's the man I've most wanted to impress. I've wanted and needed to believe he was proud of me
[02:06:28] and what I'd done with my squad. I never felt I did anything to be worthy of my own father's pride.
[02:06:35] My father was the first person in the history of the state of New York to go from junior
[02:06:39] college to dental school starting with absolutely nothing and accomplishing so much on his own.
[02:06:43] I sought his affirmation but always seemingly in vain. I always felt I never quite measured up to his eyes.
[02:06:51] To me it was my fault for squandering so many chances. Here now I want more than anything to
[02:06:57] stand with Sergeant Major Falkenberg as we head into the fight and measure up at last.
[02:07:04] This time I am determined not to fail. His few words have had a more profound effect on me than
[02:07:09] any of the pep talks of the past week. A great speech is only partly about what is said. Often
[02:07:15] what matters more is who says it and how it is delivered. Our Sergeant Major's vulnerability
[02:07:21] and love for us spoke volumes. As everyone else gets up to head for their Bradleys I stay a heartbeat
[02:07:28] longer. Falkenberg turns his steel blue eyes to me. No words are spoken but in his eyes I can see
[02:07:36] something. A feeling coming my way. Respect.
[02:07:50] I gotta get you to read these books on a hot air man. It just sounds so much cooler here and you
[02:07:55] say it. Falkenberg is a guy who is, first of all he was 45 when he died. He was the first American
[02:08:04] to be killed in the battle of Fallujah. You want to talk about like you're watching a movie and the
[02:08:11] hero of the movie is the first guy to drop and there's no explanation. It's the most morale
[02:08:19] killing thing in the universe right? I remember hearing that he was 45 and I was thinking I'm
[02:08:25] 40. At the time I was the same age. He seemed like a dinosaur. Like that's the oldest person in
[02:08:30] the world you know and and and he is a body on the stretcher. He wasn't even big enough to cover the
[02:08:40] entire Polis litter and I the guy just was a giant and every you know always had the worst rifle.
[02:08:50] A you know an A4 with nothing on it. He's like let the fancy guys have the fancy shit. I don't need
[02:08:57] it. You don't need nothing. Iron sights. I just absolutely adored him and and and I always he
[02:09:08] hate I don't think he liked me and that's the other thing. No I really I could tell you with
[02:09:13] with authority that he did not like me but I had loved him and I and I and had he liked me
[02:09:22] I don't think I would have he was such a guy who's been in the military for 25 30 years. They've been
[02:09:30] to every armpit every butthole of the world. They've seen it all. There's nothing you're going to
[02:09:35] tell them that they don't know. On the day we show up to Fobb Normandy 4th Infantry Divisions on one
[02:09:40] side first IDs on the other are two battalions two-way two-two infantry which by the way is the
[02:09:46] order of march at Normandy Beach and ironically it took the first Infantry Division to take the
[02:09:52] battle. That's neither here nor there back in Normandy but they're first in Normandy first you
[02:09:57] know that's their unit. This fourth ID SAR major steps up and he is the most eloquent guy in the
[02:10:03] world. He's a gentleman on the other side of that water. There is an enemy that enemy will take your
[02:10:08] life. We are here learn from us. You know what I mean? Like it was they were dirty. Their uniforms
[02:10:16] were rat you know ripped and we were just I actually made noise. I starched my DCUs. I made like a
[02:10:25] totally combat ridiculous. You don't ever need that right and and Falkeberg gets up after this
[02:10:33] eloquent speech about you know the world is a dangerous place. We are the beacon of light and
[02:10:38] freedom and Falkeberg just turns to us doesn't talk to them and says don't trust a single one of
[02:10:45] those sons of bitches. He's like they're going to steal your night vision and go deer hunting with
[02:10:49] them. He's like they'll put your night vision they'll put in your gas tank. They're going to lie
[02:10:54] they're going to steal squad leaders. I want a green to green every five hours. I don't want a
[02:11:01] single 490 guy in your living quarters. I've seen this shit. They're your friends and then they
[02:11:06] steal all your gear and they go home to clean and they go deer hunting with your night vision
[02:11:11] and we're all like and the guy was everyone was like what the hell wrong with this guy right
[02:11:16] but that's who he was. He didn't give a shit if he was an elementary school principal he'd be the
[02:11:22] worst ever. He was an infantryman and he all he cared about was these are my kids these are my boys
[02:11:29] and the idea that he would be the first to go down and how that you want to talk about you know
[02:11:41] losing officers losing senior NCOs and these young kids saying okay I'm not a platoon sergeant anymore
[02:11:46] now I'm a first sergeant running a battalion a ROTC lieutenant running a company. I mean their
[02:11:53] trigger pulls away but that to me was the sign of you know this is real like we'd lost 40 plus guys
[02:12:02] to that point in the deployment every one of them stings every one of them hurts but he's much more
[02:12:08] than a leader. They become your mascot they become your empathy they're more than leaders they're
[02:12:16] the identity of who you are they're your validators every single day it's not a good day unless he
[02:12:21] says it's a good day you're not you know ready until he tells you you're ready and when that's
[02:12:28] gone it is a father figure it's it was devastating it was devastating and now you're not even in the
[02:12:36] fight yet like it'd be like you're going to the Normandy beach and the guy gets hit in the Higgins
[02:12:41] boat and now your the ramps are dropping and everyone's like what just and you're like forget it
[02:12:47] forget it everything's okay everything's cool we're keep going and and you get the report that
[02:12:55] there's an angel right that was the radio chatter an angel we got a ram ramrod seven
[02:13:02] angel seven you're like you know this well you know what let's go work our mission is to get
[02:13:11] get the guy that killed falkeberg that's what we're doing right now are you serious we're yes
[02:13:15] I got the mission the guys in this block killed sarmajor let's go get them it doesn't matter
[02:13:22] where we were in Bosnia we're getting the guys that got sarmajor falkeberg do not be the one
[02:13:29] to come home to a ceremony and see his widow and his daughters and say that you didn't have
[02:13:33] something to do with getting the person that got him that's the only thing we can control right now
[02:13:37] this is the last one we're gonna take right but it was you you don't know when to you you can only
[02:13:46] compartmentalize so much and so these two books are dealing with 20 years after that and did we
[02:13:53] maintain our promises to our friends did we sit down with the kids we all talk about it
[02:13:59] when you're old enough I'm gonna sit down with you I'm gonna tell you who your dad was
[02:14:02] how many of us have actually done that how many of us have actually stood with a widow
[02:14:09] I would hear a story of a woman that lost her husband in the war and she got married again
[02:14:13] I thought to myself that's way too soon that's disrespectful like how do you do that you your
[02:14:22] husband you loved him he loved you talked about you all the time and you just got to marry another guy
[02:14:27] and someone told me he was like Bellevue that was 12 years ago man 12 years ago let this woman
[02:14:35] move on with her life you're holding on you have no idea what she's been through you have no idea
[02:14:42] who this guy is you can't think like that this is these families have gone through so much and we
[02:14:51] promised that we would be there have we been there what kind of lives have we lived we said we were
[02:14:59] gonna live for them and be twice as good because they're not here we have to do more with our lives
[02:15:05] how many have done that instead we're talking about suicide and addiction and and how people have
[02:15:12] quit there's no way you're thinking about your buddy that died in the war if you're thinking about
[02:15:17] you know killing yourself getting high or or giving up you are betraying all of that we we've
[02:15:27] been far too soft with this generation of saying oh it's acceptable that's a choice you're making
[02:15:32] a choice it's a valid choice it's bullshit it's not a valid choice you you made a promise and
[02:15:39] it and if you would have killed yourself as we're stacking on a house how would that have been received
[02:15:47] but no you decide you're gonna do it at home when it's over no no we have a purpose and we have to
[02:15:54] honor our word and this book is about how I didn't I didn't and it took a stupid this award
[02:16:02] that got all my guys together again and we realized we don't need any of the stories we don't need the
[02:16:10] glory we don't need the attention we need each other that's why we did it we need each other we
[02:16:15] need to be present in each other's lives and validate and and acknowledge that there's purpose
[02:16:22] and that and that we all have we all have a journey and some of us are struggling some are doing great
[02:16:29] but we we got to honor those promises we made each other when when we thought the world was going to end in 24 hours
[02:16:43] at this point I'm gonna fast forward a little bit it's basically go time and there's a I kind of
[02:16:51] have to read this part because we get a new character gets introduced into the scenario here you say
[02:16:56] this throughout alpha company digital cameras appear and soon the men are posing for one another
[02:17:01] nearby are embedded reporters take all take all this in they cluster together like new kids in
[02:17:07] second grade watching the scene as awkward outsiders these photos are crucially important a form of
[02:17:12] insurance against our own mortality a few months back we lost a man and realized to our unending
[02:17:18] dismay that no one had a single photo of him to display at his memorial service it was disgraceful
[02:17:24] surely this is in the back of everyone's mind now this time we will have a record of every soul
[02:17:30] who goes through the breach Michael Ware breaks ranks from the cluster of journalists with Yuri
[02:17:36] in tow they come over to third platoon and offer to take our picture the platoon lines up and they
[02:17:42] go to work the other embeds see this and promptly stream to their assigned units taking cameras and
[02:17:48] snapping pictures of them as they click away they are no longer awkward outsiders now they're
[02:17:53] now they found a way to help us they circulate among the soldiers and start to fit in they've
[02:17:58] shown us they're human and the company appreciates that after Michael and Yuri finest finally finish
[02:18:03] up I light a smoke and stretch out on the ground next to the track it's almost 0900 the morning is
[02:18:08] crisp cold and punctuated by distant artillery barrages every few minutes and Apache funders
[02:18:14] overhead fast moving fighter jets crisscross above them in the sky this is where I belong
[02:18:21] it's the first time in my life that I've found my place it's a reassuring thought that eases some
[02:18:26] of the butterflies fluttering around in my gut I wonder if it was like this for the soldiers of
[02:18:32] the Union Army during the Civil War tenting on the old campground and all quiet on the
[02:18:37] Potomac have been replaced by our percussion heavy metal modern riffs of mud vein and dope but we're
[02:18:44] still basically the same the details vary from war to war but no matter the epoch or the
[02:18:49] war but no matter the epoch the camaraderie remains it is a closeness that no civilian will ever really
[02:18:56] understand a Bradley swings out of the column and starts towards us lieutenant curl new all
[02:19:02] riding shotgun in the turret yells at the troops as he passes he looks like Patton must have looked
[02:19:08] as he raced alongside one of his flying columns in a jeep dressed like he was ready for a parade
[02:19:13] Patton sometimes stood on the passenger seat to shout at his G eyes new all can't do that in a
[02:19:19] modern day Bradley fighting vehicle but the similarities are striking nonetheless our task
[02:19:24] force is a hundred vehicles long strong new all's track runs the length of our column like a steel
[02:19:30] sheep dog shepherding us forward as he passes by I hear him bellow let's go go go so you got Michael
[02:19:44] Ware who's Australian journalist Yuri's the other guy that I mentioned where's he from
[02:19:51] Russian guy yeah and he these guys are in beds and how much did you know about Michael Ware at
[02:19:57] this when you first met him so Michael Ware was in my opinion Michael Ware was a public enemy
[02:20:03] number one because he was the face of Western journalism to the terrorists so all these beheading
[02:20:10] videos they were trying to basically circulate through him he was embedding with both sides
[02:20:17] and so I didn't know what a journalist did and I didn't really give a damn but he when he showed up
[02:20:22] I mean really I mean what am I he showed up and he was Time Magazine you know CNN all these
[02:20:29] things were going to work through him and he had the respect of being the guy that has gone to every
[02:20:35] horrible place in the world and so I didn't see him I saw him as a partisan I saw him he has an
[02:20:41] agenda what I learned in flu and one of the reasons why I became an embedded reporter when I got out
[02:20:47] was because I had such I mean I grew so close to respecting this guy because at a certain point
[02:20:55] our radios are only as good as what they're you know I can't get on the horn at my rank and level
[02:21:00] and talk to a general in the Marine Corps that's on a flank five kilometers away he would pick up a
[02:21:06] sad phone and he called the embedded journalist with the Marines and he'd be like listen we need
[02:21:12] artillery and we need it now I'd be like damn like that welcome welcome to Team America Michael Ware
[02:21:21] no he was doing things and then he sat us down and gave us his own briefing and and that that
[02:21:29] changed the that changed the way we fought listen you know you get command and they tell you dispositions
[02:21:35] and you know I always it's gross to say but when you saw an enemy defecate you could learn a whole
[02:21:43] lot about what you're fighting you know diarrhea is a good good sign these guys are nervous they're
[02:21:50] not healthy they're not they're tired they're not you could see the mucus I want that right I don't
[02:21:57] I mean I want to see that right give me more diarrhea I want I want to see the enemy suffering
[02:22:04] and scared and not healthy right Michael Ware gave us a briefing on what type of enemy we're fighting
[02:22:11] and and the way that these guys you know they're rocket teams he's like you're gonna look for
[02:22:16] little designations one building is gonna have nothing but rockets in it the next building
[02:22:21] nothing but medical supplies the next building just bullets if you start fracking out like you're
[02:22:26] doing you're gonna get the wrong building and that whole thing is gonna go up he's like look
[02:22:30] they've read your your books they know how you like to enter buildings we would go into a building
[02:22:37] on the top floor all the stairs were removed all of them you would jump from a roof to another
[02:22:44] roof and they took out not only the roof but the second story as well you're falling all the way
[02:22:49] down to the first floor and they've got you know these rods and glass and a costa tina wire he's
[02:22:57] like you you there's gotta be a way that you you acknowledge that if you're coming from the road
[02:23:03] and you're going through a front door they know you're gonna take that door right that's the door
[02:23:08] they want you to take you would find serpentine like almost like a maze of just really crudely
[02:23:15] put together cinder blocks maybe eight feet tall and they would just work you into a turn in a turn
[02:23:22] and then you look up and that's the overhead where that pkm is mounted and they're just gonna fire at
[02:23:28] you while you're like a rat in a maze he's like this they've had way too much time to prepare
[02:23:34] he's like tunnel networks they know they have to protect their wires and and if they leave their
[02:23:41] wires in the open there's too much artillery and bombs out there they're gonna cut those wires all
[02:23:44] of those wires are gonna be dug all of them so when you see a hole and a wire coming out it's
[02:23:50] leading to a house I've seen it and I know what these guys are doing I'm like this is this is
[02:23:56] intel this is really good stuff and this is a guy who did not care about being famous he didn't
[02:24:06] care about being on camera he was he was just about wherever you're going I'm going and I want to
[02:24:13] get the story so I can I can tell the truth and that's why he was hanging out with the enemy
[02:24:19] you want to know the truth who are these people where they coming from I I love that guy I don't
[02:24:25] think if he didn't film that house fight there's no way that this this award would have happened
[02:24:31] I don't think it it was 15 years the the video and his documentary and it circulating gave our
[02:24:40] unit credibility gave that award credibility I mean we hear a lot of stories you know unless
[02:24:46] you see it or hear it you know yeah totally I mean the the Chapman story is so unbelievable
[02:24:55] that had I not seen a drone footage myself that is one of the most incredible things
[02:25:00] any American has ever done in the history of warfare the Roberts Ridge and and they're what
[02:25:08] they knew that the birds getting shot down the the seals working with Air Force and
[02:25:17] again sometimes you know those things help just kind of paint the picture a little bit better but
[02:25:23] Michael Ware had no business going into any house fight he had no business doing any of that and he
[02:25:28] did it and I just I he's like family to me now I love him I I just I I don't know I've never had
[02:25:37] a relationship with a person outside of uniform that I can actually say I tell him now you're
[02:25:43] you were born in the wrong job you you you should have had a rifle not a cannon there was a
[02:25:52] part in Fallujah where I thought about giving him a rifle and the only reason why I didn't
[02:25:58] was I couldn't imagine what that report would look like if my guy got shot because he
[02:26:04] you know knotted up I don't know I don't think I would have survived that and that documentary is
[02:26:11] called only only the dead yeah yeah I remember when it came out because somebody you know forwarded
[02:26:17] to me like hey this dude's freaking with the moosh hey this dude's doing this dude's with moosh in
[02:26:22] Ramadi I'm like what sorry like what are you talking about and when watched it it's it's
[02:26:28] crazy to watch it's crazy it's crazy to watch it's crazy to watch he's he's yeah at some points
[02:26:33] he's embedded with Americans and at some points he's embedded with moosh and it's crazy to watch
[02:26:39] and see and and then you know there's a story behind it but yeah it's a it's a crazy documentary
[02:26:45] he's a he's a lunatic yeah I know I love him I'm not a there's Valor that we show if people
[02:26:51] fight cancer show Valor people stand up to bullies show Valor soldiers cops firemen and I I never
[02:26:59] thought journalists could do that every time I hear a journalist being so brave you know you had the
[02:27:05] you know you read a teleprompter you know I'm saying you went to makeup and got your hair done
[02:27:10] excuse me if I don't celebrate the holiday you know I might just go to work today instead of
[02:27:16] having wolf blitzer day but the truth is there are guys out there and girls that a woman from
[02:27:24] CNN in the Afghanistan what's her name the the the lady that was bedded don't she's
[02:27:32] she's a real deal yeah no I've had a woman on this podcast Holly McKay and she's gone over and
[02:27:37] done all kinds of stuff where I'm like hey she's like on social media like messaging I'm sending
[02:27:42] you know like messages get out of there we like Afghanistan was falling I was trying to pass messages
[02:27:48] like you need to get out of there now but you know she's committed to doing her job yeah that's weird
[02:27:56] man the video of this I don't know what to tell people read the book for this is my this is my
[02:28:03] advice don't watch the video yet read the book house to house spend a few hours it probably take
[02:28:10] you seven or eight hours to read this book read this book and you'll kind of be like
[02:28:14] well that seemed crazy but you know could it have really happened like that you'll
[02:28:21] kind you're gonna have questions in your mind all right and then you go watch the video and
[02:28:24] you're like holy shit so that's my advice read the book and then go watch the video because
[02:28:30] there's a video that's just you know you watch the documentary for sure but it's it's crazy that he
[02:28:37] was there to capture this on video it's crazy there's a point in the video he doesn't mention
[02:28:41] this but there's a point where I took a shot at him and he's got the camera and I you know
[02:28:48] people think that you know you you in a close quarter fight you lose your hearing you can't
[02:28:53] hear anything anymore you're just exchanging gunfire for you're totally deaf and this dude is like
[02:28:59] hey you know in the middle of a dark house he's a gay with a Australian accent and he's like hey
[02:29:05] hey that's the journalist and I'm like dude I'm gonna who the f is I'm gonna blow your head off
[02:29:13] you know why are you speaking English and I took a shot and he just let the round like hits the side
[02:29:19] and he's just like and he's right back and for years I thought he just put the camera down
[02:29:26] I thought he just put the camera down the house and left and he and I was doing a
[02:29:31] doing a radio show and I said that and he the first time he contacted me since the military
[02:29:37] he's like you son of a bitch I was in the house with you the whole time I have the entire video
[02:29:41] and I watched this documentary and the first reaction you have is I was way cooler than that
[02:29:48] you know what I mean like in your own head you you hear yourself screaming and it's like I can't
[02:29:56] can't believe how scared I sounded and then you realize I was scared you know what I mean like
[02:30:02] you you seriously like you hear a story the army loves to you know they will they want their guys
[02:30:10] this is the version this is what happened very clinical very sterile it all happened within
[02:30:15] two seconds that video is 29 minutes long and in totality I would have told you that that
[02:30:21] entire fight was two minutes long that's way too much of just and and maybe we block you know
[02:30:30] when you go through something you forget about it or you don't think about it or you can't remember
[02:30:34] it or you don't want to remember it but all I can remember is these it was so dark that you just
[02:30:41] think it's the same guy you know and you you just you're not you're bleeding you're not bleeding
[02:30:48] the 556 almost cauterizes you don't get the the you can't drive if you're not hitting pelvis or
[02:30:56] someone in the face they're moving you know and so you you you're not getting stopping power
[02:31:03] and and and the other thing that that was so strange is that like you don't know where your
[02:31:09] guys are and so you're constantly you know thinking that you're going to get into a spot
[02:31:17] and these guys are going to frag out or just start juicing because you know you trained them to do
[02:31:21] you trained them to err on the side of area fire at all times they're going to go through a
[02:31:28] spendex in here with 240s and m249 saws and 40 millimeters and I don't want to be on the receiving
[02:31:35] end of that so how do I just get out but and then it gets personal and the moment it becomes personal
[02:31:43] is the moment where you go through so many in a close quarter battle it's well you know it's
[02:31:49] strength it's will it's you know spirit it's what you're fighting for your country your friends your
[02:31:56] family it all it's the most schizophrenic experience that anything can turn that battle
[02:32:03] and I've never been in an octagon I've never been you know but if there's something you can do
[02:32:09] that can intimidate me in that 30 second window or however long it is in a in a MMA match I at
[02:32:19] least dominated you enough where I could do something and and I got you thinking psychologically
[02:32:26] I've got you thinking and sometimes it's just registering that the guy that you're fighting
[02:32:31] against is scared of you right and there was a moment so the housefight is really three
[02:32:37] different fights right you got the we walk in we get ambushed and then the tough the the thing that
[02:32:44] caused me the most thinking was just to stand in a doorway with a saw that was the nuttiest
[02:32:51] that because you that's you don't know it's unknown are there two or there one is there
[02:32:56] what is it it's all unknown you've never seen the house before and I remember I hooked my finger
[02:33:02] to the second knuckle I mean we're butterflies you know this is the training that in the military
[02:33:09] it's just I'm the second and I I hooked it because I'm like if I go down this thing's
[02:33:16] going to keep firing right and then I have a runaway and the only time I've had a runaway
[02:33:23] is on the range and you point them you point the machine gun down range and break a link
[02:33:27] and I'm about to do that and I think wait a minute this is actually this is actually we'll take it
[02:33:34] but that thing fires a lot around and now I'm in this unenviable position of hoping the people
[02:33:42] that designed the saw uh fn uh what was it yeah fn the fn people have fixed that magazine
[02:33:51] issue where you could put a m4 magazine head and they have they still so so I'm trying to feed a
[02:33:59] magazine to get a magazine get a little 30 rounds do whatever and I realize that not only are these
[02:34:04] guys talking to so that they had a room that had a stairwell going up and a jersey barrier coming
[02:34:09] out and I thought there were two machine guns the army has their own version I guess it was a pkm
[02:34:17] and an ak excuse me for you know thinking that pkm those two feet away sounded like two yeah
[02:34:25] it was a pom pom gun in my mind but as the juice in that door um the platoon gets on one side I'm
[02:34:34] the other guy on the other side but I'm in that I'm on the stairwell now and I'm looking over
[02:34:38] and I got nothing left and I just remember them talking to each other and I did not even wound
[02:34:45] them and for 200 rounds at like three feet that just took everything I had my mojo was done so I
[02:34:53] start beating tail and as I'm running out I just feel the heat and the tracers behind me and I'm
[02:35:03] like I'm running out I felt like I was in that house with those two guys again like I'm running
[02:35:08] I've never broken contact in my life and I'm breaking contact and someone just grabs my age
[02:35:14] harnesses I leave the courtyard it just pulls me like a rag doll and I was just like that's it and
[02:35:21] then we're taking fire from the roof so so let me just get through this um how this just to
[02:35:28] just to clarify for everybody so you guys enter this house yeah and you there's I mean just think
[02:35:33] about what you just said there's a jersey barrier meaning that the moosh had brought freaking concrete
[02:35:40] barriers like a jersey there like you see on the highway they had it up the stairs no it was
[02:35:46] underneath the stairwell so underneath the stairwell they have a jersey barrier to like they built
[02:35:50] a bunker inside this house this is what you guys are up against they've got so your your your team's
[02:35:56] in there and now they're engaging and your your team is pretty much stuck right they're pinned down
[02:36:03] they can't get out of this house right and you're standing there and you realize that somebody's got
[02:36:10] to put down some cover fire so everyone can get the hell out of there right so you got our machine
[02:36:15] gunners are outside and they're firing at guys in a kitchen and these are two young kids Joe Swanson
[02:36:22] James and McDaniel they have 240 bravos which is the m60 version today and they're firing their
[02:36:28] machine guns into the house the bad guys are shooting from this entryway into a living room
[02:36:34] and the walls are falling apart and so you've got and again it's like throwing a log on a on a fire
[02:36:41] you've got the rounds just going everywhere you can't get up you're out you're literally hugging
[02:36:47] ground and you can't get up and so I just kind of rolled to the left side of the room and the
[02:36:52] entire platoon was on the right and I remember trying to squeeze my rifle and it just it there
[02:36:58] was something in the trigger well and around it hit the the magazine well and that popped the
[02:37:06] magazine open with the spring and the bolt was I thought it was a double feed but the rifle was
[02:37:14] in op there's no way I could I could do it so I just said throw me a machine gun give me a saw
[02:37:21] and someone slit a saw over and that's one of those things where you ask for like
[02:37:25] you know I'll help you lift the couch and then the couch is 500 miles and you're like yeah I need
[02:37:29] help with it the the saw came over and it was um it was ready to go and I just I needed time
[02:37:38] I needed time like I my legs were like you know lactic acid and just concrete they wouldn't move
[02:37:48] and it it just like you're just like this is it like this is it it's gonna and so my whole
[02:37:55] thought process was get low suck up as many rounds as you can in the sampler plate in the helmet
[02:38:01] and if they're gonna hit you they'll hit your leg or they'll hit your you know your your arms but
[02:38:06] just bring bring those arms duck walk in as low as you can and just try to get well-aimed fire to
[02:38:14] keep their heads down and just kill these guys walk right into the bunker they'll never expect that
[02:38:21] just walk right in and it just ran away as soon as I pulled the trigger it was just for clarity
[02:38:27] what does that mean when you had a runaway so open bolt weapons close bolt you know the
[02:38:33] like a machine gun we train people for three second bursts right so you just as long as you pull
[02:38:38] that trigger down an automatic weapon it's gonna fire rounds as long as that trigger is depressed
[02:38:43] the semi you got to squeeze every time when I pulled it down I chewed up so many rounds that the
[02:38:50] automatic machine gun just was seared and that was just firing the rounds regardless of where my
[02:38:57] finger was so you pulled the trigger and it keeps shooting and it just gonna stop so in a training
[02:39:03] situation when you're talking about breaking or or it could be in a combat situation but once it's
[02:39:08] running away meaning you'd let you off the trigger and it's just bullets are still flying
[02:39:12] one of the things that you can do is you take the you grab the belt of the machine gun the all
[02:39:17] the bullets and you break it off and then it will only shoot however many are left and then it stops
[02:39:23] and you know he had to make the decision well should I break this off oh no wait a second this
[02:39:28] is a good thing it's working yeah we'll take it it's basically the same thing happened to Alec Baldwin
[02:39:34] I'm kidding too soon no too soon no but when it's a really it's a really weird feeling but you think
[02:39:39] in in a you know in a combat situation use it right just point it but the problem is that that's a
[02:39:46] 200 round it's a drum a hard plastic drum and there's 200 rounds and you don't realize how fast
[02:39:54] those rounds are gone because once the rounds are gone I don't have any more linked ammo I'm not a
[02:40:00] sawgunner I'm hoping that these guys are just gonna get out we have a day these guys have the
[02:40:08] Australian peel many times a special operative trades a grunt you get things you don't know
[02:40:14] so I learned Australian peel because but I'm never gonna learn I'm never gonna use it because I'm a
[02:40:19] an elite American infantryman I don't break context right as the first time we did it
[02:40:25] and it's basically like look I'm gonna go forward you're gonna get out so I got the gun I'm gonna
[02:40:31] move in you're just gonna and I just need to know last man the last guy just has to get a last man so
[02:40:37] I know everyone's out and then I'm gonna go with them I'm gonna fire everything I have and and run
[02:40:43] away and we're breaking contact and I I don't hear last man the gun's going crazy and I'm walking
[02:40:51] on the stairs above the the the little bunker and I'm just kind of trying to bend you know like it's
[02:40:57] a leaf blower like just trying to like get it in there and if nothing's happened it was a disaster
[02:41:02] it was pretty bad uh but that's on tape you know like it's like crazy could you have not put that
[02:41:09] part in like it would be great if only the cool parts were in there but unfortunately yeah everything
[02:41:16] you say uh I mean as you're writing about this it's crazy to read about it uh the trigger
[02:41:25] still depressed my mind races I've suppressed the enemy now I should kill them my heart urges me
[02:41:29] forward against the stairwell get out of there clear the room and juice these guys I try to step
[02:41:34] forward but my feet won't let me my legs feel like they're chained to the floor I can't advance the
[02:41:38] 10 feet needed to end the fight don't be a bitch move forward I strain against my own body I cannot
[02:41:44] move the saws bolt clacks back and forth as it chews through my ammo supply okay I probably have
[02:41:50] about 110 rounds left what if I make a push to get on the stairs no my body still refuses my heart
[02:41:56] rages I see the saw along the barriers more foam explodes out to the escape cascade on the floor
[02:42:03] it looks like snowfall in hell in the firelit gloom okay I've got probably less than 100 rounds left
[02:42:10] it's time to move get forward finish this finish this now I push I swear my legs won't budge the
[02:42:17] enemy remains unhurt hiding behind the ripped up barriers I can't do it my heart seeds with contempt
[02:42:24] then my saw runs away from me sometimes with that weapon once you go cyclic you can't stop a stop it
[02:42:30] I ease off the trigger but it remains locked back the bolt charges on its own the gun spews at least
[02:42:35] 50 more rounds then clunks on an empty chamber I'm out of ammunition I'm still in the stairwell
[02:42:41] room any second the fuckers under the stairs will pop their heads back up see that I'm an open target
[02:42:47] and finish me my legs suddenly free up I've got to get out run I spin right and bolt through the
[02:42:53] doorway thinking McDaniel is 240 will be in the four-year to cover my escape I don't see Misa
[02:42:59] anywhere but both of the living room and the four-year are completely empty I charge through
[02:43:05] both and out the front door as I fly into the courtyard an automatic weapon clatters give me
[02:43:10] another automatic weapon I scream still standing in the courtyard yo pull back Fitz yells I need 203
[02:43:16] is give me some 203 fire bullets crack over my left shoulder and hit the outer wall in front of me
[02:43:21] I keep running my legs pumping furiously and then I'm through the gate and with my men Misa appears
[02:43:28] at the gate and throws me to the side uh outside the street I got you man you're good we're safe
[02:43:37] so you get out of the house yeah I mean honestly that was pretty I think it was the angle of the
[02:43:47] of the house didn't you know the guy down the stairwell can only hit you when you're in the house
[02:43:51] and the guys from the window had to have either moved away from that vantage point because if
[02:43:56] they were hitting you know McDaniel Swanson were right outside with a couple other guys
[02:44:02] and they were exchanging machine gun fire at point blank range if those guys were there
[02:44:08] with the ammo that they had I mean it would have been too easy there were pillars in front as well
[02:44:14] but for some reason it was I wasn't efficient a barrel for him but I could feel it and I and
[02:44:22] and what was so crazy is that you know I'm just thinking to myself my dream you know like when
[02:44:28] you're at that two mile point in a run and you hit the wall and your legs just everything is
[02:44:35] you you run so hard that you can't feel anything the adrenaline is just going nuts but you're like
[02:44:40] I eventually have to stop and when you have to stop in that moment it's a it's a you can't just
[02:44:47] stop out of dime you got to at least walk it out after you hit the wall I mean I went from zero to
[02:44:53] 60 and I was I felt my butt cheeks I thought I got hit in the in the in the ass and I I think it was
[02:45:02] my heels like I mean kicking my own ass like I had muscle spasms you know what I mean like like I
[02:45:12] Charlie horse just from nothing to full sprint in a fight or flight and I had soreness like on the
[02:45:19] back of my hamstring and my quads and my glute now it was just like in my head what happened
[02:45:27] and the and the real the realization that I did nothing to the enemy at least if I got two if I
[02:45:36] got one let's get the bomb and and the problem with Fallujah is that the bombs became like a butcher
[02:45:43] shop you know you got a big set play you got like three fixed wing and I'm like I need a bomb okay
[02:45:51] here's what's going to happen for your bomb mr I need a bomb all artillery stops all the aviation
[02:45:58] assets are gone you're getting your bomb it better be important and your number is 15 because
[02:46:04] 14 other guys need a bomb mr dmv you know I need my license done now and you are on a list
[02:46:12] and if you don't have a radio you don't have a rank you're not getting a bomb so we asked for the bomb
[02:46:18] I wanted the bomb didn't get the bomb but now I'm on the street with the platoon and everyone is ducking
[02:46:24] for cover and it was just such a horrific feeling of I can't I mean I would have told you that that
[02:46:31] moment in my life was the moment I was born to have and it never in my mind ended with me running
[02:46:39] screaming with nothing with no dent in in Goliath's armor it's just it was crazy like I can't believe
[02:46:50] nothing happened now that being said yeah a normal human being would be like well thank god I got out
[02:46:58] of there and everyone in my platoon is okay cool um okay let me check what happened all right normal
[02:47:05] human being what would happen if you were in front of your men that you care for love and
[02:47:11] everything else and then you start giving orders and they're like no sir I'm listening to him right
[02:47:19] that's what they did okay and that just pissed me off I lost it I went from I can't believe
[02:47:27] this is happening to f this yeah you you guys want to listen to fits you guys want to listen to
[02:47:34] Lawson what get we couldn't get accountability is someone in the house is anyone dead do you
[02:47:41] have all your equipment I couldn't get anything everyone was scattered from still getting shot at
[02:47:47] so fits and Lawson did what we are trained to do which is break contact to another building set up
[02:47:54] fire superiority get elevation eyes on suppress and then consolidate come up with a new plan
[02:48:00] that's a normal plan that's a normal plan that's a normal plan I had Michael where and I he claims
[02:48:07] that I'm pacing the streets like a lunatic I don't remember that but I do remember looking at Michael
[02:48:13] where and I just looked at him and he looked at me he looked exhausted sweaty and he was just like
[02:48:22] I felt like he was telling me you could do this absolutely there's two guys in the house go you're
[02:48:29] good for two you're out there you know thinking yourself are you writing the book like what what
[02:48:34] the hell kind of example that I just said exactly then you start with give me my fucking rifle who
[02:48:39] has my fucking rifle which is which is classic right you you know thrown your rifle to somebody
[02:48:46] else you took the saw and and you're like getting more pissed off yeah by the minute but but in my
[02:49:01] head I was telling my guys what to do and they were not listening I was internalizing that is
[02:49:08] Belavia shook big Sarge is not the same guy he's scared he just ran like a little bitch
[02:49:19] I want I'm gonna look at loss and fits these guys are cool calm collected like they are all the time
[02:49:26] right and that and I was just like you all right all right like is that what you think I wasn't
[02:49:32] there's no rational you're not you're emotional and and and adrenaline's going crazy and the only guy
[02:49:39] that I can get any you know my my dr. Phil is an Australian from Time Magazine
[02:49:47] and he's like I'm not going any and the bullets are listen I don't know what's happening to me I
[02:49:51] can't see me I could see him and there are bullets all around him just ping-pong ping and he was just
[02:49:58] like standing there so I'm like this guy there's a death wish or he really believes that I can do this
[02:50:06] and if he believes I can do it that's all I need and so I was like let's come up with a plan
[02:50:14] and my plan was a bomb I need a bomb right now you get some Bradleys up there yeah uh
[02:50:20] Cantrell's back Bradley lumbers up the street the platoon scatters as the brat arrives some
[02:50:26] some get behind it for cover the turret traverses his gun barks the shell explode the shells explode
[02:50:33] high into the side into the kitchen and living room uh undershir is that right I would say yeah
[02:50:39] undershir walks his fire back and forth seesong between the two rooms he pauses his cantrell
[02:50:44] sweeps the track free of the shell casings which tumble hot into the smoking street
[02:50:50] cantrell backs the brat up to up the street to where he can lay down a curtain of fire on the
[02:50:54] rooftops most of the shells go high but the incoming shot sees for the moment anyways what
[02:50:59] else you got you think we got him cantrell asks Michael where here's the question over the din of
[02:51:05] the brads engine shots he shouts there's no way he's got him sergeant bell there's no way where
[02:51:12] had been in the courtyard when the shit hit the fan he had to dodge the machine gun fire from the
[02:51:17] kitchen in my heart I know he's right but at the same time there's no point in wasting any more
[02:51:21] ammunition the brat just can't get a kill shot into the house at best the barrage drove the
[02:51:26] insurgents away from the front windows overlooking the courtyard I think we're good I tell the brat
[02:51:31] crew we're back to square one I start to pace again walking back and forth my inner monologue
[02:51:36] spills out of my mouth I'm talking to myself in front of where in front of the men I'm livid the
[02:51:41] whole situation has taken my dignity I need to find the strength to get it back honor what an
[02:51:47] overused word it's an abstraction who can define it all year in Iraq I've stood with my men if they
[02:51:53] had to fill sandbags until three in the morning I'd be out there in the dirt mud with them I would
[02:51:58] never give an order then go relax as they worked my example is all I have as a non-commissioned officer
[02:52:04] I take pride in that that is my honor I've always told my men not to be afraid in combat when the
[02:52:10] bullets start flying they need to man up and dish it back tenfold how many times have I drilled this
[02:52:15] into them perhaps telling them to be unafraid is unrealistic we're all human fear walks with us in
[02:52:21] every battle yet we cannot allow fear to dictate us who we are and how we act we cannot let it
[02:52:27] control us we must master it that is another essential element of honor as I storm around in
[02:52:34] the street struggling with myself where regards me curiously the last thing I want right now is a
[02:52:39] journalist watching me grapple with my own demons I turn away and pace back up the street slipping on
[02:52:44] a couple of 25 millimeter shell casings in the process another spray of sparks flares around me
[02:52:51] do I have the balls do I have the nuts to do what my fucking heart wants me to do if I don't go in
[02:52:57] they'll have won how many times have we heard that American soldiers rely on firepower and
[02:53:02] technology because they lack courage how many times has our enemy said that man for man they can
[02:53:08] beat us that's nothing new the Germans and the Japanese said the same thing during world war two
[02:53:12] inside that house I surrendered my honor and my manhood now I have to take both back or live
[02:53:19] with the fact that they are right about me that is unacceptable I rant and swear with abandon
[02:53:26] down the street I see sergeant nap taking care of my men like they are his little brothers
[02:53:30] I want to cry I'm so proud I love these kids in a way I will never be able to express I see their
[02:53:36] faces one by one John Ruiz Lucas Abernathy Peter Sokolas Alex Stuckart Victor Santos Brett Pully
[02:53:46] Tristan Maxfield they deserve more from me I stopped pacing and let out a deep rattling sigh
[02:53:54] only where remains by me on the street everyone else has moved away perhaps my display has convinced
[02:54:00] them I've gone mad but where is still here the journalist our platoons unofficial intel officer
[02:54:07] we stare intently at each other fuck it I say fuck it agrees where that settles it I'm going back in
[02:54:23] it seemed very rational at the time again I really thought there were two bad guys in that house
[02:54:28] I know I'm good for two I figured even though they're talking I had to have hit them with something
[02:54:38] ricochet a piece of concrete maybe they went through their ammo but the clock is ticking and
[02:54:47] my biggest fear the reason why the so the Bradley the streets are very narrow and there's high walls
[02:54:52] the Bradley can only traverse at a certain elevation so it was only getting the upper stories
[02:54:56] and the gate was only so wide right the my fear was just give them something to think about so
[02:55:04] they don't run out because the last thing I wanted to do this was we're looking for 10 to 12 bad guys
[02:55:09] which everyone's looking for 10 to 12 bad guys and and it was in a structure of homes that was
[02:55:15] blocked off by four tanks so we had thermals they couldn't leave this block they're in here somewhere
[02:55:21] and this is a couple more houses to go this is all of them we think we hope it's all of them I don't
[02:55:29] want them getting back in the houses that we already cleared and now we're playing you know whack
[02:55:33] them all again and we're going to get someone killed or hurt hurt and but but again talking
[02:55:40] someone I heard the thought someone said we're going to die and so in the video I'm yelling
[02:55:46] we're not going to die and all the guys today will tell me no one said that that was in my head
[02:55:51] that I'm just I'm respite but they thought they were like dude you were having a full blown
[02:55:56] conversation and there was no one you were talking to you're answering questions you're you're taking
[02:56:02] food orders like you've lost your freaking mind and and uh I think we're sense that I think I think
[02:56:09] Michael we're sense that I was coming unglued and so he decides to egg you off so he's basically
[02:56:17] like this guy I think we've got we've got some hope here let's he's like what are you thinking
[02:56:22] without saying it he's like what are you thinking I'm thinking I want to do this and I was I was
[02:56:27] ready someone gave me an m16 a4 with a 203 I had one grenade I had 140 millimeter and I made the
[02:56:37] mistake of giving magazines away because I saw the enemy was wearing our uniform because that
[02:56:43] flusher brigade had all of our uniforms but I saw a guy running around with a with a marines rifle
[02:56:50] and this guy had the bandoliers the IBA and I just thought someone died and they got all of his ammo
[02:56:56] and there's no way I'm going to go in here and get waxed and then give because I was you know we
[02:57:01] were carrying I don't know how many magazines their combat load is not so so you know I don't want the
[02:57:07] guy to have everything so I carried five magazines one of them was empty which was my mistake so I
[02:57:15] had four full magazines and I probably should have taken much more than that you know no that that
[02:57:21] was a huge mistake but I was thinking I don't want these guys to have too much but then uh so so
[02:57:27] the the plan is I need as many saw gunners as I can now doctrine is one thing you've got your you
[02:57:35] know in a stack our military infantry seven dash eight you know non-special forces doctrine
[02:57:42] is you got a point man rifle and then you go with your grenadier and then you got your automatic
[02:57:48] weapon and then you got a leader team leader squad leader whatever it is what we learned very quickly
[02:57:53] in Fallujah is I need machine guns automatic fire I don't give a damn what it is shotguns and machine
[02:58:00] guns so we incredible for our battalion and our brigade and our division to just find brand new
[02:58:07] saws most of these saws were older than our saw gunners one of the time we deployed we got everything
[02:58:13] was new and they got the combat saw the smaller rifle the class will bust off this was this is
[02:58:20] good stuff so we all carried saws as many saws I can get so we had I said I wanted four guys around
[02:58:28] the building and I was going to run in there like a lunatic and try to push him out of the house
[02:58:35] and then our saw gunners would shoot him up that was that was the that was what we drew on on the
[02:58:41] dirt right Lawson is a buddy of mine Lawson died in 2013 great kid great guy he was our weapon squad
[02:58:48] leader he had an m14 only for Fallujah no night optics on it so when the m14 goes away the only
[02:58:55] thing he's got is a Beretta and I don't know if you know this but next to like gold a nine millimeter
[02:59:03] magazine was the hardest thing to find you would do anything to find an extra nine millimeter
[02:59:09] magazine they were just you could not every pog you know sitting around weather traffic they all
[02:59:14] had the nine millimeter magazines we couldn't find them so we only had two magazines of nine mill
[02:59:21] and he had his nine millimeter and that was it and night vision with no optics obviously it's a hand
[02:59:27] gun so we set up our guys as soon as I walk into the house the third time right so we were in the
[02:59:33] house leave the house the Bradley fights that's like the second fight and then I get in the house
[02:59:39] the second time the real fighting everything is different that Bradley fight a vehicle rearranged
[02:59:46] everything in that place and the first thing I noticed is that whatever plumbing system they had
[02:59:51] is all over the ground and it smells like a menstruating anchovy right it is horrific
[02:59:59] it is horrific I mean just the foulest nastiest dirtiest water in the world it's slick uh
[03:00:09] in and I there's fires everywhere so the areas that aren't wet have fires going on
[03:00:17] and I'm seeing these I thought they were at the at the time the the only light I had was night vision
[03:00:24] and the blinking of the of the shots that were fired the tracers and now I'm seeing that what I
[03:00:29] thought were bricks are just blocks of that plastic PE4 the shitty C4 though so and there's one like
[03:00:38] mushed on the ground and I'm like this entire freaking floor is wired and I think I gave the
[03:00:45] instruction because they're not very well they don't know they know as much about explosives as I do
[03:00:50] do and there's like these really long you know popsicle stick size blasting caps and they're
[03:01:00] like out there's some of them are hanging like speakers like just really poorly done not and
[03:01:07] the Brad just rattled everything so you got water and then there's broken mirrors everywhere
[03:01:13] and you could like look up in the corner and you could see a broken mirror through the fire in the
[03:01:17] night vision and you could see the corn so they saw us coming when we walked in but that worked
[03:01:23] two ways because I can see them at the 7-eleven that they built with their little mirrors everywhere
[03:01:29] and and then I I could hear one of the guys like doing his prayer like he was saying the same thing
[03:01:36] over and over again and that's when he started to he put he was screwing a fuse on a rocket
[03:01:45] it and his buddy under the stairwell was holding the rocket and he was basically fixing the rocket
[03:01:54] to fire the RPG he's got an open door behind him and I was like okay game's over Lawson's inside
[03:02:02] the guys are outside he fires that RPG at the you know I'm not MacGyver what you shoot a rocket at
[03:02:10] a bunch of flash explosives gonna blow up right I don't know what the hell's going on I mean
[03:02:14] was it raised in Mogadishu you know so I don't know how explosives and all that work
[03:02:19] he's got that rocket he's gonna shoot it we're all done so the plan was now and everywhere I'm
[03:02:27] walking with the water it's sending a wake of little ripples everywhere so they know there's
[03:02:33] someone's in here so I don't have any choices I just decide it's we're doing it so Lawson doesn't
[03:02:41] even know like what's the plan what's you know what do we we're whispering like we're just doing it
[03:02:46] he's just in there with his nine mill with his nine mill he's following your right and Michael
[03:02:51] where with a camera Michael where with the camera trying to get light what's your night what are you
[03:02:55] seeing through your night vision because they got you got fires in there that screws it up you
[03:02:59] could no ambient light or is that ambient light working for you like what are you seeing through
[03:03:03] your night vision so I wasn't an airborne guy but I was told that the airborne infantry changed the
[03:03:09] way the night vision works so when you make a sudden jerk of your head the night vision shuts off
[03:03:15] and whether it was just running or just the motion of whatever I was doing my ps14s were
[03:03:25] cutting off and turning back on and it was the worst time because the only reason why I got that
[03:03:30] rifle it's got a pq2 alpha which is an infrared flashlight and an infrared laser now you're
[03:03:37] anti-oakly with that thing I don't have to aim it I mean I'm popping dudes from the hip with a
[03:03:42] pq2 alpha I've got a line right to you I could you know yeah so but without the ps14 it's crap
[03:03:50] and these things are just on and off they're just going in it never happened before I had great night
[03:03:55] I was like proud of the way I took care of my night the guys would break their night vision be like
[03:03:59] you dear responsible horrible human being you know what a marine would do to have that you get a seven
[03:04:06] bravo for the rest of your life you don't deserve the ps14 that was such a cool thing to have the
[03:04:12] ps14s and the squalid and we took great care of them and I never had an issue and all of a sudden
[03:04:19] like you need it you need to make that flight and it's delayed and you're screwed and my night vision
[03:04:26] start coming on and off and so I just said all right I turned it off I turned it right back on
[03:04:31] and I'm like I just need just to get through that door again I'm thinking there's two guys in this
[03:04:37] house the only two people I've seen are under that stairwell and that's it and nobody's communicating
[03:04:44] there's we don't know what the other platoon is doing they're on the other side of the street they
[03:04:49] don't know where I am the Brad leave the a lot of confusion but I walked through that door and I saw
[03:04:56] his eyes and I was like oh yeah like you had no idea of all the thing you thought back door
[03:05:04] see I thought they were thinking back door too right I put the guys they were super loud they're
[03:05:09] getting around the house now we're gonna come through the back door and then we came to the front
[03:05:13] door again and I see this guy's teeth and they're beautiful teeth like veneer teeth like my dad's
[03:05:20] a dentist I know good teeth and this guy smiles and I just I just start shooting and uh and then
[03:05:27] my night vision dies again but I got quality aimed shots with a PQ2 alpha and I figured I got them both
[03:05:36] and one guy ran and the other one got trapped between the jersey barrier and the stairwell he
[03:05:43] he couldn't move out of that area so he was pretty much done um and but the other guy ran to the
[03:05:50] kitchen in front and it was like okay one guy that's it one guy left and he's wounded you know
[03:05:59] I hit him a couple times um and then as I'm doing that I'm walking backwards away from the stairwell
[03:06:06] and I'm like this is a room and I'm just standing in the doorway of a room and then as soon as I'm
[03:06:12] thinking I haven't cleared this room yet the guy from the kitchen starts shooting back and then
[03:06:18] Lawson with his nine mil is just you know gangster from the side just popping this guy and this guy
[03:06:27] starts shooting at Lawson uh from the kitchen and as he's doing that Lawson just kind of pops back
[03:06:33] into the water and whether he had hit through the wall or got I don't know I don't know it's dark I
[03:06:39] don't know what's happening he's not saying anything was just smart right you know what he's a tough guy
[03:06:45] he's been hurt before and he's never cried or screamed or anything so he just kind of went back
[03:06:50] and he just his whole arm just drops and he's got his hand on his shoulder and he's reaching for his
[03:06:57] neck and he's like is this blood or water and I'm like oh no like that's not the choice I can't see
[03:07:05] he's like it feels it's slick I'm like but the water slick you know the one he's he's I'm he's
[03:07:11] he's doing this like with his hand he's no he can't move his fingers so he's like he just points to
[03:07:17] his weapon and with one finger says I have one mag left doesn't he just won and I'm like okay and so
[03:07:25] I switch out mags and I back into this room and it's a master bedroom and I have there's like
[03:07:32] like a bed a wardrobe and and I I gotta clear it right and as I'm doing that these guys come running
[03:07:44] through the door and so now we're exchanging fire but I'm noticing that there are tracers going
[03:07:51] horizontally in the room and I'm thinking it is my zero off like am I am I just you know like
[03:07:58] because I'm shooting from the hip and the ps 14s are coming on off and I'm like am I shooting to the
[03:08:04] side you know it's just peek a two did it get damaged did it get jostled what's happening
[03:08:10] where these rounds are going horizontal and my platoon sergeant screaming in my radio and with
[03:08:16] that noise from my ear everyone and I hear a cavalcade of footsteps upstairs next room over
[03:08:26] and I'm like this radio is going to be the death of me so I just take I told him I said
[03:08:32] two efforts down one rpg I'm really stressed out right now I'm really stressed out right now
[03:08:41] and I just threw the radio in the water and uh and that that's when I realized that
[03:08:46] that I could start to cheat a little bit and use the gap of my night vision solid for a little bit
[03:08:56] and I used to have that peeky too and I could use the gap between the frame of the of the door in
[03:09:00] the concrete metal frame and there's like a hole and that that dude was just like like trying to
[03:09:07] creep up on the door and I'm like I got you you know and so I just put the rounds through that gap
[03:09:14] and I couldn't have done it without a laser obviously and uh he buckled and but the weirdest
[03:09:21] thing was that guys would fall and I'd look over and they weren't there and so I'm like
[03:09:27] is this Hollywood's obviously full of crap but I mean is this the same guy or is this a different
[03:09:34] guy and is he running up down the stairs what's going on and just as that happens um
[03:09:41] um another guy comes tearing down the stairs and you could I could hear his pants um and as he hits
[03:09:48] the water again that ripple gave him away in the water and he just started firing and I popped him
[03:09:56] and then the guy came out of the kitchen the original guy that was when he came out of the
[03:10:00] kitchen and then all of a sudden I'm just kind of relaxed and everything's cool and uh I hear
[03:10:08] some guys screaming from the stairwell uh and he's it's like British a British accent and he's just
[03:10:15] like talking and uh I don't know if it's Lawson I don't know if it's Michael what Michael what
[03:10:22] is Australian is he talking to me but this guy's like talking about like your your mommy won't find
[03:10:28] your dog tags and I'm like is me what the you know what are you trying to intimidate me like so I'm
[03:10:36] speaking broken Arabic first infantry division manual stop or I'll shoot do not resist first
[03:10:43] American infantry all that crap and then I hear like dog or something to help whatever and as I'm
[03:10:54] going through all that another target appears in the door and I'm shooting that target and I see a
[03:11:01] long stream of of rifle fire that is from my left out of a wardrobe straight into the wall
[03:11:11] and I'm like I did not I didn't you shoot I that was not me you know what I mean and I'm like oh my
[03:11:16] god there's a dude in this room and as soon as I even process that the door has just come flying
[03:11:25] open and he runs out and he's got a snub nose ak under his armpit so he's running this way and the
[03:11:34] rifle's pointed behind him and he's just squeezing it like behind him oh okay right so he's planning
[03:11:39] to try and get out of the room I think he's just trying to get up but he's it's dark and he can't
[03:11:43] see anything and the wardrobe falls on its doors which again there's a lot of miracles
[03:11:49] but that is probably the most miraculous thing is that an entire wardrobe like a foot locker
[03:11:55] you know like a wall locker that'll landed on its doors because if that thing would have fallen
[03:12:01] flat he shot right into that wall locker into that wardrobe and had that thing been flat that
[03:12:10] would have gone right into me and the side of the wall as well and it just absorbed through the the
[03:12:16] wall I took I thought I got hit the elbow and I just instantly it's it's wet but I'm wet too so
[03:12:27] it's like what's going on but I remember grabbing my arm and I'm doing this inventory of like you
[03:12:33] did it you got shot and it's not that bad right it's not that bad it hurts you can't see it but you
[03:12:41] are now a bullet shot you've been a victim of a bullet wound and all these guys that acted tough
[03:12:49] you now know what they went through you're just as tough as they are you're not gonna you're not
[03:12:55] gonna scream menek you're not gonna leave you're gonna breathe you got shot in the arm and you're
[03:13:00] good to go you're lucky stay in the fight everything's good and then I'm like this really hurts like
[03:13:06] it doesn't go I mean like it really hurt and I'm like oh okay but I'm like I'm psyching myself up
[03:13:13] right dude is at the court he's leaning against the the metal the doors weren't like real doors
[03:13:20] they're like metallic tin doors and he's leaning against it and I hit him now again I thought I
[03:13:27] hit him six or seven times the video it's like three shots but again what I'm thinking what
[03:13:33] actually happened I thought I hit him repeatedly but I got him in the lower back and it was the
[03:13:39] first time I heard someone like actually scream like really loud and he moves his way out the door
[03:13:46] but I hear him up the stairs and this is the time where I get to do my little field you know medic
[03:13:52] I'm gonna treat my own arm wound put a tourniquet on you know I'm like it's below it's right here
[03:13:59] in the little joint area my elbow and I'm like oh my god I feel I feel the bullet like the bullet
[03:14:06] is actually in my arm and this is crazy because there's no Kevlar and it would make no sense
[03:14:12] that a bullet would lodge and just kind of stay there so I'm like oh I feel dizzy but as the smell
[03:14:18] isn't my nerves I can't pass out now and I just kind of flick it out and I feel it and it's a
[03:14:24] it's like a piece of wood it's a splinter and I'm like dude you went from almost being shot by a bullet
[03:14:32] to a splinter and you were gonna take yourself out of this fight you know I didn't really call a
[03:14:37] medivac for a splinter I went from thinking I'm just like every other tough guy so I get shot to be
[03:14:42] in like you don't even can't take a splinter like you were gonna punch out for a splinter man
[03:14:47] you know it means like my head is going from like super confident to but when he left and he
[03:14:56] turned and I saw his face I'm like he's scared and I like the fact that I hit him repeatedly
[03:15:04] he's wounded and he's scared and he wants to run away from me so I figured okay
[03:15:10] Lawson go get I'm yelling to Lawson I need saws and shotguns and fits and first squad get everyone
[03:15:20] to get the whole platoon in here and he's like I'm not leaving and I'm like no you gotta leave
[03:15:26] because we need to get everyone in here right so I don't want to be on that floor because I'm
[03:15:32] thinking Bradley fire or the guys just coming to start spraying I have nowhere to get cover
[03:15:37] and the best place I want to be is at least on the second floor to tell them hey you know
[03:15:42] smoke grenade flare I'm here right but I know that guy's there and I look up the stairs and
[03:15:48] I could see his wet feet but then there's blood like a lot of blood on the stairs and I make my
[03:15:55] way up in between my wet shoes my wet boots and the blood I take a step on the puddle of blood
[03:16:03] and both feet just go completely out like like I lost my footing completely and when I lost my
[03:16:12] footing at that moment a round just went off from the second level of the stairs and it was right
[03:16:20] and our bullets when they hit like brick or concrete ricochet that 762 just it just went
[03:16:30] right through it but I could see it and I was like that's where my head was right and so I went from
[03:16:38] I got this guy to I just slipped and if I didn't stand up I would have been done
[03:16:44] and then when I got to the second level my ps 14's went I went to when I went to flick them on
[03:16:51] they went to IR you know that light that looked like yeah that shines and I saw his face and he
[03:16:58] was just all kinds of stressed I imagine he was very stressed and I was like this guy's mine
[03:17:05] and one more that's it so I'm doing my head I'm like one two three or is that one two three four
[03:17:12] like I I'm just trying to do an inventory of how many are there still people live downstairs
[03:17:18] did I just leave Lawson and where would alive guys or is this just two guys and I'm just losing
[03:17:24] it you know if Lawson went to get the rest of the squad yet I can't hear anything my hearing's gone
[03:17:30] and not only that I can't the building is so big and thick that with the water if it was empty and
[03:17:39] dry maybe you could hear echoes of whatever but the only thing you could really hear was what was
[03:17:46] coming at you when something went from hits the water the water was the giveaway that there was
[03:17:54] someone coming because you could hear the splash and you could see the signature of it but upstairs
[03:18:00] was dry it was super dry up there and now I'm I'm back to I got my rifle and I charged a magazine
[03:18:12] and I think this was the last what felt it felt like 20 that it shot maybe just one of those I
[03:18:18] recharged and didn't have full 30 but I took out my grenade and and this is where I was going to
[03:18:24] practice my cooking off I was so proud of how I cooked the grenades off I was cooking grenades
[03:18:29] off at the 12th grade level you know I I was really good at it at that point and that sizzle
[03:18:35] you know so many guys would tape their spoons and then they just throw the grenade with this tape
[03:18:42] off but the spoon would stick to the casing right you pull your pin and you threw it and it never
[03:18:48] went off because the spoon stuck to the it'd been taped for so long so I was I guess not
[03:18:55] happening to me I'm and I and I brought to my ear you got to be careful because you know defense
[03:19:01] contractors five seconds two seconds but I couldn't hear the sizzle my ears were so shot that I was
[03:19:09] like one one two and I just was like oh no you know like that's how this story ends you've been
[03:19:20] blowing my own head off with a grenade in my ear like he's taking a call like Mossad blew me up for
[03:19:25] taking a call and I as I turned to look at him I the room was an L shape right so I had like a
[03:19:35] like a perpendicular I threw the grenade I hit him with a grenade but it went into a big pile
[03:19:40] of these foam mattresses and I heard it kaboom and I heard him you know hurt and it got bit by
[03:19:51] something it shrapnel hit him somewhere but when I came into the room I instantly tripped over
[03:19:57] my my shin scraped off the top of just a mess of propane tanks I mean the entire room was full
[03:20:07] of propane tanks I fired one around and I just smelled this like really oily thick smoke that was
[03:20:15] like plastic foam burning and natural gas and not and I just like I can't I can't shoot again
[03:20:23] because I'm going to blow the tanks up or do whatever so I just kind of used my rifle to
[03:20:29] find him in the room of smoke and wave the smoke around and just try to find where he is and whack
[03:20:36] him as hard as I could and that's where you know we just started wailing on each other in the dark
[03:20:43] and the smoke just kind of where is he where is he at and I didn't want to bend the barrel the
[03:20:49] the M4 is a rifle that you know I butt-stroke to people with that plastic butt and it's it doesn't
[03:20:55] really do what you want it to do but the problem with the M4 is that if you wax someone hard enough
[03:21:00] you're going to bend your barrel right so I mean that you're taking your rifle out of the fight
[03:21:05] and I got Sanos's rifle but it's heavier you know the A4 had that stock that was you know
[03:21:12] and so that that's much better to go into the fight with than an M4 would be so I just tried to
[03:21:20] take advantage of that and I I really it was the first time I realized how how exhausted I was I was
[03:21:27] I was really spent you know and I was starting to feel like my stomach was tightening and
[03:21:33] breathing became harder and and I I was hoping that I could just get close to him and shoot him
[03:21:42] right like like be able to get a close shot into him but I also realized that when a person is
[03:21:50] fighting for their life they're not going to give you any of those openings and I could tell he was
[03:21:56] older the foam would burn and then die and then a flame would pop and then it would die and then a
[03:22:06] flame would pop again and he had a gray beard and he was wearing a bandolier like you know around his
[03:22:16] you know around his waist and so yeah it was like every time I thought I had an advantage he had a
[03:22:27] big gouge out of his his arm his forearm had a giant bite from shrapnel and so when he would do
[03:22:37] something to me I would just kind of put my hands in that that wound and that and he just
[03:22:43] complete you know that he that was so much pain that he would you could tell him his guard was down
[03:22:49] but this is why we need to teach self-defense and and jiu-jitsu or something because in the gear
[03:22:56] it's hard enough to move you know god forbid if I had elbow pads on I would I wouldn't have made it
[03:23:02] but the vest is so heavy and the way we load the vest is he makes it even more unbalanced
[03:23:08] I didn't have any moves I didn't have a choke I didn't have anything to do and my hands were wet
[03:23:17] usually hair so I I stuck my finger in his eye and I figured that that was gonna to do it and I
[03:23:29] I was so freaked out by the way an eyeball you know ruptures that it it just unnerved me the whole
[03:23:36] thing was just so it seemed like I was cheating you know what I mean like I was doing something that
[03:23:43] was not what we're supposed to do I never had an experience with with anything like that before
[03:23:52] I've never done anything like that in my life training no one's ever given us a power pointer
[03:23:59] class on that and and I had my helmet you know and and so I figured my helmet is probably but I my
[03:24:09] ps 14's around the helmet and the tie down at that point when I took my helmet off the we
[03:24:15] these no one ties the elites don't tie things down but we tie everything down because we're so
[03:24:21] irresponsible you never know when you lose something and and I had a I tied it down but
[03:24:26] when I took my helmet off my 14's fell and now you've got like this you know pendulum
[03:24:33] and so it's it's not you're not able to get what you want now the the part of the story that gets
[03:24:41] misinterpreted a lot is that I took a sappy plate and everyone said I took my sappy plate out
[03:24:47] I opened my vest and on an IBA at that time it was velcro one side had a plate the other side
[03:24:55] didn't and so as I was trying to hit him I wasn't getting enough force with my helmet I I took his
[03:25:02] head and I just kind of used the open vest to subdue him if you ask me that's when the fight
[03:25:10] really stopped that I would think that I that at that point it was I don't think he was we weren't
[03:25:18] equals at that point whatever you got the upper hand yeah the wounds that he was sustaining to
[03:25:23] his head between the helmet and the sappy plate were enough to either disorient him or or make him
[03:25:30] just not a problem at least in my own head I thought everything was great
[03:25:37] and he goes to the ground and when he goes to the ground I put my hand over his mouth and I'm
[03:25:45] literally all my force is got one hand the one arm is wounded and when I put my leg on it
[03:25:53] he's like his hips are coming up he's it's hurting him but then he's yelling and then I hear a guy
[03:26:02] above us yell back and that's when I completely went from I'm in control and I'm gonna be okay
[03:26:10] to complete you know a panic of I don't have the strength I don't have the strength to do this
[03:26:16] right and he's wounded I mean shoot me four times you know I don't know if I could do what he's doing
[03:26:23] but if there's another guy that I have not yet met and he's 100 healthy I'm in deep trouble I'm
[03:26:32] in trouble and so as we're we're I've lost complete positive control of my rifle at this point
[03:26:37] and I'm trying to find it with one foot and just kind of probe my foot out to find my strap I could
[03:26:47] drag it to me or do whatever and he bites my hand really aggressively right and it's it's like
[03:26:57] now I'm I'm firing on you know I thought I had him in a good grip where I could at least and I
[03:27:04] thought the fight was out of him and he just starts biting me and then as I move up my body
[03:27:11] the hand that I was not holding I just I just heard a loud crack of what turned out to be a Soviet 45
[03:27:22] I don't even know where he had it or where it came from but I just fired directly in the wrong
[03:27:28] he didn't thank God he didn't know where my head was but it was close enough to my head that it
[03:27:32] went from not being able to hear cloudy to like ringing not being able to hear you know which is
[03:27:39] it's like a tinnitus versus I just can't hear you know and that was that was really like it
[03:27:46] affected my equilibrium and affected my thought process things became dire I went from super
[03:27:53] confident to like this isn't going to work out and you and when I stood up looking for my rifle I
[03:28:00] felt that I had my Gerber in my cargo pocket not on my belt which would have been almost impossible
[03:28:06] with the adrenaline and the sweat and the water to pull that out it was so tight to my belt that it
[03:28:13] would have been you know but it was in my cargo pocket and and a lot of people think that's a
[03:28:19] multi-tool they say he killed you know the multi-tool came out it was a Rex Applegate
[03:28:25] you know a very quick release and I just figured I would I would just pop him I was just gonna
[03:28:36] let him know you know no but ask it and I was speaking broken Arabic it turns out he didn't
[03:28:44] even speak Arabic but I was just trying to tell him to shut up and so I could hear what was being
[03:28:51] said or how many were you know was it said our guys maybe it's it's my guys coming up and I just
[03:28:57] can't hear and so I just I was just letting him know I have a knife and and then it was he bit
[03:29:04] me again and when he bit me you know in my he bit you know my lower body and and that was
[03:29:13] unbelievable pain it was unbelievable pain and it was just a complete adrenaline spike and it became
[03:29:21] I'm gonna I'm just gonna jab him you know I'm gonna I'm gonna cut him and when I when I put it in
[03:29:27] it hits collarbone and it cut my side of my pinky down my hands kind of went off the blade and kind
[03:29:38] of went to the to the knife and it nothing happened it was too hard and it was not in the right region
[03:29:46] and then when I put my hand over his neck I kind of felt where or I could guide it and as soon as
[03:29:53] I put it in it was a cold night it was a rainy night I felt steam like warm hot steam and there was
[03:30:05] a noise that I couldn't I couldn't hear the noise but I could feel the noise it's a it's like you
[03:30:13] there was a the spurt was this is and everything just auto rebooted he was just like it was over
[03:30:26] it was like there was no you know there was no uh response to it you know and uh the only thing I
[03:30:35] took enough science to know that I could speed it up and so I just kind of was doing like a little
[03:30:44] bit of um like a CPR almost I just to just get just to end it you know just to get all of it out
[03:30:54] and so I just started putting you know like doing CPR uh to to end it and and that's that was it and
[03:31:04] and after all that I I it was ridiculous and it wasn't I wanted a cigarette you know and uh I went
[03:31:16] outside and and again my helmet's gone my vest is open my rifle is somewhere on the ground I have
[03:31:24] a magazine maybe I don't know eight rounds left uh 10 rounds much less than 30 and I know there's a
[03:31:35] guy above me but it's a porch and there's a roof on top of it and so I just kind of cupped my hands
[03:31:45] but I wanted the cigarette to be like my light right because I have no night vision and I figure
[03:31:51] and I figure if I get that cherry going I could at least signal someone if they're coming in because
[03:31:56] I haven't you know I figured I could at least see something get some nicotine I mean I wanted
[03:32:03] nicotine but I also wanted to see like what was going on signal do whatever and as I'm dragging
[03:32:09] that outside open air I just hear like uh like someone like took off like a scuttle of feet and
[03:32:21] like the the most grotesque Joe Thysman snap um I've ever witnessed I played sports I've seen
[03:32:29] guys you know break legs and compound fractures Achilles injuries I've never that was a bad one
[03:32:35] and whatever he landed on completely immobilized him when he landed on the ground and um he was
[03:32:44] was in severe distress and and emotional about how much he was hurting and the magazine swiveled out
[03:32:54] of his uh you know uh no buttstock on the AK um it was a short AK with no buttstock and the magazine
[03:33:03] was out and when I threw it back in and and re recharged it it just was way it burst it was on
[03:33:12] automatic and it just burst and very little accuracy I don't think I hit him with the AK
[03:33:20] and then when I ran into the the building uh he fell like back into a water tank in the corner
[03:33:27] and he couldn't move his like he was one leg was the only thing that was causing you know
[03:33:34] his ability to move but the rifle I ran into the rifle and my rifle and so I picked it up and I just
[03:33:43] shot um until it went empty and I don't I hit him I could see that you know I hit him and I hit his
[03:33:53] wounded leg and I hit him in the back uh near the kidney and all I know is I didn't know if there was
[03:34:00] a landing he a canopy there was a canopy underneath that part of the building but I just heard the
[03:34:06] saws open up on him so when I looked over finally um I could see that he was you know head first in
[03:34:15] the in the palm area and the two machine gunners had had done their thing and then the guys come
[03:34:22] flying in and Lawson ends up getting shot by a shotgun Lawson uh total accident but Lawson
[03:34:32] basically was on the second story and he was like terminators our guys are called terminators terminators
[03:34:38] coming in and he just kind of turned the corner and if someone hit him in the sappy plate but that
[03:34:43] could have been horrific and so the next they're like bomb is coming in bombs coming in and I just
[03:34:53] my voice was hoarse I was like totally like you know shook and uh we ran out of the house and um
[03:35:02] fast mover dropped a bomb and it went right through the you hear it like like you'd hear it like it
[03:35:07] didn't go off and then uh they brought so that was a 250 they brought in a 500 that thing bounced
[03:35:17] and I don't know if it was our laser if it was the few I don't know what happened two bombs were
[03:35:23] duds the final one was a 2000 pound bomb and we were all like outside of the house that blast
[03:35:32] was worse than anything that happened inside the house I mean it just voided all of our
[03:35:39] I mean just like we just like uncontrollable vomiting like so you were just outside the
[03:35:44] house when the 2000 the Bradley's so the Bradley's all pulled up on a line and the guys got inside
[03:35:49] the Bradley's and and zipped up and Fitz had grabbed me as I was making sure all the guys
[03:35:56] were in the brass he just grabbed me threw me a hole and honestly we got the best end of it
[03:36:02] because the guys that were in the brads got just completely concussed from that boxed in area
[03:36:08] and all that munition I mean danger close I'd say it was I don't know 200 meters from where the bomb
[03:36:16] went off and the all the periscopes on the side of the brads were all shattered um and the guys were
[03:36:24] all like woozy and vomit it was really bad and they got shook really really good we were outside
[03:36:30] and I think we got the better end of it I think I think because we were low and in a hole we didn't
[03:36:36] get nearly as messed up as all of it but we go back in pull the bodies out um you know start doing
[03:36:49] our inventory and the next day I want dies our executive officer and then JC Madison died and
[03:36:59] then Sims died and it just kind of was like crazy day but there's like 12 other crazy days to go
[03:37:06] and we just kind of did our thing and and then 15 years later I get a call that the DOD is doing
[03:37:12] an investigation and people I haven't talked to in 15 years are calling me telling me that they're
[03:37:17] looking into every aspect of my military career and I'm thinking like a lot of guys have happened
[03:37:23] and someone gets a little jealous someone gets upset and they said something happened the way
[03:37:31] I had a reporter investigating and the military calling I lawyered up I got a lawyer
[03:37:39] and I was like you know I'm not going to jail like what's going on and then Trump called
[03:37:44] hold on before we get to that before we get to that so the this whole story that you just told
[03:37:53] about beating in this house um this is November 10th 2004 this is your your 29th birthday 29th
[03:38:00] birthday yeah this is two days into the battle yes because there's a couple days and there's a
[03:38:04] little bit of a low as it kicks off you know right it's hard for you guys to get through the breach
[03:38:09] you guys get in there it and it takes a couple days I mean there's action out of the gate but
[03:38:15] but this is definitely a highlight for what you guys were doing yeah um like you said
[03:38:23] Lieutenant E1 November 12th he's standing in a brad he's actually waving goodbye to where
[03:38:32] who's going to like fill his report or whatever he's going to do and he gets hit with uh he gets
[03:38:40] hit with an rpg um rpg doesn't detonate so it's like awful um you you got in in the book remember
[03:38:51] the ramrods you've got this this quote do they take you know his brother had died and you explain
[03:38:56] this in the book and again there's so many there's so many things in this book but you know his
[03:39:00] brother had died in 1989 and so uh Ed E1 they his parents want him buried you know in the cemetery
[03:39:10] in their small town in uh Nebraska I believe and there's a inscription on his grave about about
[03:39:18] Lieutenant Ed E1 it says Ed lived every moment he stood in the rain heard the thunder danced to the
[03:39:25] lightning and believed in rainbows that's the 12th the next day um the the individual that we've
[03:39:38] talked a bunch about captain sims who's your who's your company commander um a guy and it's it's you
[03:39:45] know I don't think I covered this but as you guys are going in you know this guy realizes what kind
[03:39:52] of a fight you're about to go into and it's not going to be a hearts and mind fight and you guys
[03:39:57] all really come together as and he knows you're going to be relying on his door kickers um and
[03:40:07] so the next day after uh Lieutenant E1 dies captain sims he's um kind of catching up with
[03:40:15] you guys on the battlefield you guys are tired and he's going to go basically do a strong point
[03:40:21] of building kind of set up a little command post or something and you know you're like hey boss let
[03:40:27] me let me go clear that thing for you let me get my squad in there let me clear that thing and he's
[03:40:30] like no you guys get some rest stand down he says air out your feet get some chow we'll take care of
[03:40:35] it and um it was a building that had been cleared but you know if they'd been left and cleared and
[03:40:42] left and when these guys go in it um they get into gunfight captain sims is killed
[03:40:55] and like you said you know this is and this is something sometimes people forget is that when
[03:40:59] someone gets killed in combat combat continues and you still have a mission you still have enemy
[03:41:05] and you still keep going and that's what that's what happens you guys keep going uh for a total
[03:41:14] of 10 days it's november 17th you guys finally come out of the field um and you got some great
[03:41:25] you got some great perspective in there you know as you're coming out of the field and
[03:41:30] and what that's like you guys are now uh seen way more than anybody else has seen in certain the
[03:41:37] the the remps in the rear you know they're trying to tell you to get your uniform squared away and
[03:41:41] this stuff and uh always that that that contrast between the guys that are on the front lines the
[03:41:46] guys that aren't the time magazine article comes out so michael where like you said works for time
[03:41:54] so you guys are out of the field on november 17th november 22nd this article comes out
[03:42:01] that he's written it's called uh into the hot zone and it's it's it's telling your story uh
[03:42:08] you're it's telling your company's story and of course i mean you know the the fallujah event
[03:42:17] was in every it was in the entire news for you know three week period and so now everybody
[03:42:25] is reading this article about you about your guys um and all that being said deployments not over yet
[03:42:33] you guys still have another three months of deployment left
[03:42:39] what are you guys doing when you get out of fallujah what's that recovery like
[03:42:44] and and now what's your mission towards the end of deployment so you know we don't really know
[03:42:49] about the magazine the article um but everyone in our sector knows about fallujah and they know
[03:42:57] that when we were gone we were replaced by units that didn't have the same logo on their arms the
[03:43:03] insignia and what that meant the the red one and uh that we were in fallujah and that bought us a
[03:43:10] tremendous amount of street credit with the with the bad guys you know it's um we were super cocky
[03:43:18] we were super confident uh and we weren't you know the mistakes that we made the zigen and zagan
[03:43:25] and the old days was long gone the chances we were taking you know they always talk about how
[03:43:31] when you know john the john bas alone story of you know you get a guy that does crazy things
[03:43:37] at guata canal and then he wants to go back to iwo and the unit that he led i mean they got a
[03:43:46] john bas alone um is a legend and an icon he's selling war bonds he's dating hollywood starlets
[03:43:53] i mean this was a national hero and everyone hung on everything he said he had so much street credit
[03:43:59] he didn't last what 15 minutes on iwo and and so there are things that the reason why they take you
[03:44:07] out when things like fallujah ramadi big set plays where units do crazy things is because you you
[03:44:14] don't have a sense of of your mortality and you do take chances that you think well has it happened
[03:44:21] yet you know i'll roll it until you know we fold and our unit was doing that i mean we were just
[03:44:31] like in the old days if you took fire the enemy stopped you know you'd give chase you do your
[03:44:37] job but at the end of the day we fired they stopped they ran away who cares after fallujah we we were
[03:44:46] going to kill you like we were going to take you out and it didn't matter how long it went down it
[03:44:50] didn't matter you know we had guys going through tunnels and you know it's very difficult to clear
[03:44:57] an attic you know that's one of the most dangerous things you can do because you're literally just
[03:45:01] popping up in the middle of a floor and anything can hit you and those are always you know guys
[03:45:07] were just doing things they'd never done before because they survived what was you know an epic
[03:45:15] urban fight and i noticed it and i noticed that election day was the big thing the battle
[03:45:21] fallujah was because january 2005 was going to be the first free election and all of the craziness
[03:45:27] that were going that was going to happen on election day and so our mission came to just we had a
[03:45:34] pretty good handle on diala province before fallujah when we left there was that period where they
[03:45:40] regressed a little bit just because the unit you know you're brand new you don't know the area very
[03:45:44] well great soldiers they just didn't know our area and so they were only there for a month and a half
[03:45:51] and we started to see that they were taking liberties we took those liberties back we counterpunched we
[03:45:56] did great things but it also became a way like it was real now like the guys were gone they weren't
[03:46:03] etsing they weren't going to a different duty station they were no longer there in the memorial
[03:46:09] services and the you know and you just take more loss towards the end of a deployment you think
[03:46:16] why are we taking loss at the end we're so close to just going home like is this in what's the point
[03:46:22] what are we doing and so that became more of a struggle of keeping our poise and our focus
[03:46:31] but also the discipline was the hardest for leaders at the end that's when all the crazy
[03:46:39] happens like in the last 30 days of a deployment is when nothing can be rationalized no loss no
[03:46:46] injury no death nothing makes any sense because you're that close to the finish line and it takes
[03:46:52] a lot to just kind of you know maybe i'm going a little bit too crazy you know what you don't want
[03:46:58] is you don't want you know that that guy who's getting out of the army he's got a month left in
[03:47:03] a combat zone and this is Jerry Rice's last football game and he wants one more touchdown before he
[03:47:09] hangs it up i don't want a guy who wants one more fight you know before he hangs it up you know so
[03:47:15] you you want to be reasonable but at the same time professional and disciplined but that was that
[03:47:22] was tough because you know there's and then these units are coming in to replace you and they've
[03:47:27] done nothing but red you become our unit became like army rock stars you know they they were in
[03:47:36] magazines and their army times and the and so guys are taking photos with these new guys and sign
[03:47:43] in furniture and this is the coffee maker from the gunner of the you know like they it was a weird
[03:47:50] feeling to hear your unit and these names of guys that you work with every day and they're
[03:47:56] enrolling stone magazine they're in they're on cnn they're talking about falconry hey turn on
[03:48:02] could you tape me fox news they're doing a special on on sarma falconry like what like
[03:48:08] is your son major like it was the it was a very surreal experience to go from the backwater
[03:48:17] and a unit that really peaked in vietnam to the first division back where it's cool again
[03:48:25] and all these guys who just did their jobs are now you know doing interviews you know you've got
[03:48:32] reporters that are sneaking out of the fob to interview the boys from falooja a month later and
[03:48:39] it's just like it was very surreal um you know because it's just a lot of attention and it's
[03:48:46] not necessarily people process it differently you know and you guys end up going home in february
[03:48:53] 2005 yeah and at what point are you deciding that you're going to get out of the army
[03:49:00] you know my whole thing was so i didn't know anything about you know the time magazine everything
[03:49:07] you hear about you know you're in a vacuum but the there was a big award ceremony going out for
[03:49:14] the division and a welcome home and again we're a german unit and it was a lot of silver stars and
[03:49:21] bronze stars and a lot of these guys that did incredible things you know it was hard to get
[03:49:27] a private a specialist in e5 the award that they deserve a lot of guys that really never squeezed
[03:49:33] around were getting awards that probably you know our service awards not valer awards you you have
[03:49:40] that in every unit but it was apparent that they were going to take this falooja fight and essentially
[03:49:49] make this award a distinguished service cross and that's the way it was built we did the unit the
[03:49:59] brigade commander paul ray smith had just received the medal of honor the first recipient since vietnam
[03:50:06] posthumously for what happened in 2003 at the airport in bagdad and so this was going to be
[03:50:14] the second a distinguished service cross which would have been the first distinguished service
[03:50:18] cross since vietnam so we got the medal of honor and the distinguished service cross and this is
[03:50:23] what you're hearing about your award yeah so so i'm getting the dsc that's that's the way the the
[03:50:29] ceremony is going to be all the guys get their silver stars and bronze stars and we're going to
[03:50:32] hold the dsc secretary of the army's coming to germany hold division it's a dsc award i did a
[03:50:38] commercial for armed forces network talking about getting the dsc and the dsc is in the back i mean
[03:50:45] that it was happening and as that's going all going down they're basically saying no one knows
[03:50:53] anything more than the dsc and it's not an award that you you know you you don't know how to write
[03:50:59] it and the witnesses and so the division did the dsc with battalion and witnesses and whatnot and
[03:51:07] secretary of the army shows up day of the award uh would do their rehearsals we're getting ready for
[03:51:13] the live the band the division commander and the secretary of the army is like belvey's not getting
[03:51:21] the dsc and so i'm like all right you know like what that kind of sucks i mean we did the commercials
[03:51:30] i'm in my uniform here like what's going on and they're like they're upgrading it and i didn't
[03:51:37] you know i was like they're upgrading the dsc i mean it doesn't make any sense like what is
[03:51:43] going on and it went from being upgraded to just you know army times usa today all these media people
[03:51:54] telling the world that i'm going to i'm nominated for the medal of honor which is not something the
[03:51:59] army puts out no one puts that out you can't say you're nominated for anything it's not you know
[03:52:05] you're either approved or you either get it or you don't there's no like you didn't get the medal of
[03:52:09] honor give them the dsc it's the medal of honor nothing right you can take a silver star and upgrade
[03:52:16] it you can take a dsc and upgrade it but you don't get like a fallback award you know it doesn't work
[03:52:22] in reverse so i go home i i leave uh there was a lot that happened on that deployment and our unit
[03:52:31] was disbanded uh so half of the guys went to another unit and deployed in in eight months the rest of
[03:52:39] the guys went to stomp lost guys went home everyone went home and i just was like i'm going to be a
[03:52:45] civilian and uh i wanted to do some embedding i wanted to do you know some other stuff work some
[03:52:51] vets groups and whatnot and then i get a package in the mail and it's the silver star and it isn't
[03:52:59] my citation it's not my name and i'm like this has to be a mistake right it's not on my dd214
[03:53:05] it's not your citation it's not your name no it's just like i jumped on a tank and you know i suppressed
[03:53:10] the enemy it's basically the silver star was for stepping in the doorway with a saw got it and then
[03:53:16] there's something with a bradley that i didn't do and then my middle my name is spelled wrong
[03:53:21] but it's not on my dd214 and the orders aren't signed so i'm like you know what's going on and now
[03:53:28] everyone's like you're gonna get the medal of honor and the media is like this is happening
[03:53:33] the silver star it's an interim award and you're gonna hold on to that and then you're gonna get
[03:53:39] the medal of honor well that goes on forever and then nothing happened and so people so what are you
[03:53:47] doing so now it's you're out of the army i'm out of the army uh i i decide i want to go back in the
[03:53:53] army um but i don't want to i have a family and i want to be a dad i want to get a normal job and
[03:53:59] then i hear so you're conflicted conflicted i go and become an embedded reporter uh i start a veterans
[03:54:07] group we start running democrat republican veterans for congress we have a great class
[03:54:13] lee zeldin who's running for governor in new york was one of our first guys alan west was one of
[03:54:17] our first guys uh we've had some good ones we've had some bad ones but we we ran you know quality
[03:54:23] guys and and and girls and in the process of doing that i meet all of these like there's a class that
[03:54:31] is started where there's like a professional veteran class that comes out of afghanistan and
[03:54:35] iraq and i'm super cognizant that i don't want to be that guy i don't want to be the dd214 guy in my
[03:54:41] car you know i don't want to be the guy that's low crawling to the copier you know it's like hey
[03:54:48] what time well zero niner we're gonna like stop another brief all right like you work at an
[03:54:54] office depot like you did not have an actual depot and so i i don't want to be that guy and i want
[03:55:01] to be like a normal guy but every time something happens with the war my local newspaper my local
[03:55:07] whatever is like this guy's getting the medal of honor and then people want to write books
[03:55:13] and the books they're writing are not the stories that happened they're like you know then you know
[03:55:20] he's killed eight people single-handedly uh but that's one story do you know how many people
[03:55:26] are killed over here and it's like wait a second first of all how much money you get what's going
[03:55:32] on here like you're making money off of our friends our stuff what's why are you sharing these stories
[03:55:40] they're not true and then i got to hang out with guys like marcus letrell and i saw the veteran side
[03:55:52] of celebrity in a way that made me super grateful for my life because marcus was a 50 50 50 percent
[03:56:01] of the country's thought marcus letrell is truly one of the greatest treasures we have in our planet
[03:56:07] he's a humble decent wonderful man that went through some crazy things and then 50 percent
[03:56:13] were like i hate him because he's successful and known why is he famous why do i care about marcus
[03:56:21] letrell and i'm watching him go through this and i'm seeing that for every guy that wants to shake
[03:56:28] his hand for every girl that wants his phone number there are 50 people that want to put him
[03:56:33] in jail and there's 30 people that want to call him a fraud and go after his story go after his
[03:56:40] friends and he's doing this journey and it's like he's a pioneer like he's discovering the organ
[03:56:47] trail and he's doing it all by himself uncharted waters uncharted waters with grace and dignity
[03:56:54] and he can't win every everyone's out to to to to snipe him and i remember he told me one day
[03:57:03] we were in texas doing something and he said you are so lucky it's not the medal of honor
[03:57:09] because it's crazy as this is the medal of honor to be worse and i'm like you know what maybe you're
[03:57:14] right i'm blessed salgianta first living recipient i see this guy he's on that's a super bowl he's
[03:57:23] on the letterman show and i look at his face and i'm like this guy has got the weight of the world
[03:57:31] and he is just just getting buzzsawed i mean there's you're the great you can't take anything away
[03:57:38] from salgianta what he stands for what he did who he is how he leads his but there's still people
[03:57:44] don't want to just rip him to shreds and go after his unit and his decisions and does he well i heard
[03:57:50] he was i come on man give the guy and he's the only one and there's no net there's no support
[03:57:56] there's no one he could talk to vietnam guy nothing just gianta on his own doing his own thing
[03:58:03] and i said thank god this one i was like i'm and then it became well maybe the story isn't true
[03:58:13] i mean you didn't you didn't get the award that they said you're gonna get it so they did the
[03:58:18] investigation and obviously you didn't do shit this is bullshit right so now i'm like wait a second
[03:58:23] well i go from going from being like the susan luci of combat veterans i'm nominated for a daytime
[03:58:29] emmy for 18 years i'm not kidding it it's an honor to be nominated now when did you do your
[03:58:35] embedded reporting so so this is six so 2006 you're freaking in ramadi when i'm there yeah no so that
[03:58:44] which is crazy and mcmajor mcmajor mcclung was the pao who lost her life in the for the marines
[03:58:50] and i thought i got approved because i'm like the only guy that wants to be there and at the end of
[03:58:57] that tour at the end of that little time she said will you sign my time magazine and i was like no
[03:59:04] way like she's like yeah come on what do you think we're stupid like yeah you show up here no one
[03:59:09] wants to be here we just wanted to make sure you weren't coming here to be a hero and you weren't
[03:59:15] coming here to do something stupid and when it was appeared you know it was apparent that you had
[03:59:19] your heart in the right place we thought you could you could use your platform to tell them what we're
[03:59:25] doing because we're doing great things in ramadi no one's talking about it at all what was it like
[03:59:29] when you were on the ground there and ramadi yeah that was the worst place i've ever been in my life
[03:59:33] i would i would take ramadi i would get an apartment in falusia before in 2006 ramadi was insane
[03:59:41] and and i'm not telling you anything you don't know but i'm you know as you're sometimes you don't
[03:59:46] sometimes you you can go through something that's really bad compared to another bad thing but
[03:59:50] unless you have the perspective to know like okay i saw the army the marine corps and the seals right
[03:59:59] right there was no difference the only time you can tell elite people just by the way they move
[04:00:08] you know the fluid nature of how special operations do their thing the rangers incredible
[04:00:15] marse the marine special operations marsok um you know all these guys recon these are some
[04:00:22] studs right i i never was in an area where i could not tell because of just the over the just
[04:00:32] on the disproportionate amount of brazen enemy attacks you could not differentiate
[04:00:40] what unit they were attacking until 40 minutes into the fight and the objectives were being
[04:00:45] pushed and you and you could actually see it was that crazy it could have been a hundred first could
[04:00:49] have been third marines it could have been navy seals there are 60 guys running around doing
[04:00:56] whatever the hell they want to do and it is just snipers in hides that was where we found the guy
[04:01:05] on a on a table with a hole cut in the table and there was human waste human urine
[04:01:13] hooked up with ivy bags and someone just went in there and threw water on the blanket
[04:01:17] it i mean the dedication to just lay in a hide with an ivy for your food
[04:01:26] that was ramon he was nuts and you know the the cement truck bombs the video of it no one was
[04:01:34] covering it we had a a time was just balcony journalism you heard a story a stringer gave you
[04:01:40] a video of an id you put it on the news nothing on the ground nothing tactical uh are we winning
[04:01:47] ramon he was a fight that actually was like an anaconda just squeezing the life
[04:01:54] out of these insurgents and the more you killed you saw a clear reduction of violence i mean a
[04:02:00] clear reduction of violence like you might have five got you couldn't recruit when you just had
[04:02:06] that kinetic fight the snipers were crazy the mortars were crazy uh it wasn't um and the civilian
[04:02:15] population was was still there but you saw the beginning of the sons of iraq you saw the beginning
[04:02:21] of the ambar awakening in 2006 but most importantly you saw the population see enemy combatants
[04:02:31] that were mushadine as the actual occupiers that was the first time it was ramonio six when
[04:02:39] americans are like they're the bigger tribe they're not going anywhere they're good people
[04:02:44] they're honest they just want to be left alone play the game work the job do whatever take their
[04:02:51] money but these guys from syria i don't want them i don't want these guys coming in from wherever
[04:02:57] they're the occupiers get a ran out get these people out um and and we'll be fine but ramonio it
[04:03:06] was not a good place and and it was uh it was also weird to see people lose their life and watch
[04:03:14] someone mourn someone that i didn't know like i'd never been around someone who was hurt or killed
[04:03:22] that i didn't have a connection to and to watch that extremely personal you feel like a stranger
[04:03:30] you feel like um you're intruding that that's not why we're we're there when that's a very
[04:03:39] personal thing and that was that was really crazy too and when i was in ramonio had a kidney stone
[04:03:46] and i remember being medivac'd by one of the seals out there and the last thing he told me i mean i
[04:03:54] was trying to i didn't want to drink their water because then i it was weird because like they don't
[04:03:59] want they don't want you there like no one cares about you you can be missing for days and they're
[04:04:04] like when i don't know okay move on and and so they were like i'm gonna buy you a drink and i was like
[04:04:11] yeah that'd be i i guess he meant he was gonna give me pain meds but when i came to i was on the
[04:04:17] on the shoulder of a grown man who's thinking please don't know who i am you know i mean like i
[04:04:24] don't want to be the guy from time magazine that's being carried off like you know a sandbag but
[04:04:29] but they did surgery on me there and removed the stones and gave me a a catheter and a i had stents
[04:04:37] put in it was nuts and then they sent me back out into ramonio and i remember this guy this guy
[04:04:45] came up to me he's like hey i got your flow max do you need flow max like you guys are issuing flow
[04:04:51] max prescription started this we have evolved since 2004 but that i i got to see the hospitals and
[04:05:00] the surgical units and how hard those men and women work and the ground units but the people of
[04:05:05] ramonio gave me hope that this is actually going in the right direction i couldn't say that about
[04:05:10] diala diala was worse and and i went back to diala in 08 same area that i fought in i went back to
[04:05:17] felusion 06 didn't really seem all that great i mean it wasn't better and then in 2008 i went back
[04:05:27] to felusion and they had a fight at a city council meeting over solar lights for their
[04:05:32] traffic signals and i was thinking damn we uh they're more green than we are you know that's
[04:05:38] for sure but yeah the moral of story is uh when when i got out the award i didn't know what was
[04:05:48] happening with it and it everyone kind of turned the media at least people were like this isn't
[04:05:53] real this you're bullshitting this story is not true you know gerber would have given you a knife
[04:06:01] by now you know like this there's something would have happened like this this doesn't make any sense
[04:06:05] and yet everyone said there was a tape there's a tape out there and i didn't have a relationship
[04:06:12] with michael where but they're like there's a tape out there and i'm thinking oh what's on the tape
[04:06:17] show me what's in the box what's on the tape like is it good is it bad like i don't i don't want to
[04:06:22] you know do whatever and then uh he sold his documentary and when he sold his documentary
[04:06:28] uh everyone started talking about it again and the book started reading the book and they wanted
[04:06:35] to make it a movie they wanted to do all these different things and i thought this is i'm getting
[04:06:39] into the territory that i was really happy i never was in and uh then you got dakota and
[04:06:47] everything he went through and kyle and you know all these guys will swenson and you know just it
[04:06:53] just seemed like half of the population was like at a boy here's a free ticket to disneyland and the
[04:06:58] rest of them were like i'm gonna hunt you down and make sure you can never work a job again
[04:07:04] it's such a schizophrenic world man and so 2018 i'm minding my own business and i get these
[04:07:11] calls before you get there though so what do you mean there's a huge amount of time that's
[04:07:14] passing by so it's now 2005 2006 you're doing some reporting 2008 you're doing reporting yeah so i was
[04:07:21] i worked in washington i started a veterans group called vets for freedom pete hegseth fox news
[04:07:27] we had marcus was a part of that uh there was all these guys that we tried to just get the politics
[04:07:33] out of war fighting you know send us to fight and if you don't like it don't vote to send us but
[04:07:38] you can't defund a war while we're in the process of fighting it and then uh i i just i i wanted to
[04:07:45] go back home i wanted to be a dad i wanted to coach soccer and i wanted to just see my kids and this
[04:07:49] is what we fought for so i just became a normal you know a guy i worked at a milk plant i was doing
[04:07:57] you know advocacy work for like the power grid you know like nothing crazy like you can't be against
[04:08:03] protecting the power grid you know what i mean and uh working at a milk plant everything was cool um
[04:08:10] and then an opportunity came up to do some radio and i'm in buffalo and i love my hometown i love
[04:08:17] the bills i love everything about buffalo and uh i was like hey you know what when i'm on the radio
[04:08:24] no one's talking about the army i'm weather traffic guy so in a way so wait you were weather
[04:08:30] traffic guy no no i'm just saying i'm talking about just cat decline and you know plastic bags
[04:08:35] like nothing remotely you know if they did you write a book yeah yeah but let's talk about this
[04:08:40] cats and these claws why are we decline cats it's like cutting their fingers off are you happy with
[04:08:45] yourself and in a way i could control my narrative i you didn't know what i look like you just hurt
[04:08:54] it every day and yet i controlled what you knew about me and if you wanted to ask me a question
[04:08:59] about something i don't want to talk about i just switched to start hung up on you you know i didn't
[04:09:04] have to be on facebook i didn't have to go nuts i didn't you know you want to talk about the war
[04:09:11] and you know there's moments where you have a book out you go out fox you talk about the end of the
[04:09:16] war the way obama ended the war bush what do you think about this what do you think about
[04:09:20] trump what do you think about the caliphate those are things you know you feel like doing them or
[04:09:24] you don't but i'm not a professional veteran and that chunk of my life was amazing you know and
[04:09:32] then i started going through all the things all my friends were going through you know chuck yeager
[04:09:36] dies at what 99 what do they talk about the sound barrier is 24 dude we're talking chuck yeager's
[04:09:43] entire life and we're talking about when he was 24 it's a sound barrier well give him the
[04:09:48] shit he had kids he had a job he had businesses nobody wants to talk about chuck yeager they want
[04:09:54] to talk about when you're 24 and you start to realize that if you live your life in that moment
[04:10:00] that's all you're gonna be and everyone's going through what i'm going through went through a
[04:10:05] divorce divorce sucks war sucks you move on you meet new people you have new relationships
[04:10:13] but i never i figured that the guys were the war my old unit my old life was the thing that i'm
[04:10:20] burying in a time capsule and so those guys the more i heard about them the more there were
[04:10:27] problems i'm not your squad leader anymore i i can't help you anymore it's time to move on
[04:10:36] and then all of a sudden i get these phone calls from guys i haven't talked to in forever
[04:10:41] guys the pentagon people i met you know in washington or overseas and they're like do you
[04:10:47] hear what's happening which is like the worst way to start a conversation did you hear what they're
[04:10:51] doing to you they knew a lot of information they had a lot of stuff and your your initial
[04:10:58] thought was they're investigating you from they were investigating they're asking questions well
[04:11:02] i'm not i don't even know who you are you're calling me on the phone you're asking me did you
[04:11:05] think the medal of honor just was never gonna happen at some point did you figure all right
[04:11:09] it's yeah what year did you approximately say hey you know what it's been four years this
[04:11:15] shit ain't happened i got my silver star with my name missed out there was a guy all the metal
[04:11:20] living in recipients were afghanistan and the obama administration was very clear that iraq was
[04:11:27] the bad war afghanistan was a good war we don't talk about iraq the caliphates moving throughout
[04:11:33] the country no one wants to revisit iraq we're making iraq movies that we avoided because it was too
[04:11:39] close to reality now you know superman's making the movies and you know ramadi like all these things
[04:11:46] were happening that the culture was just like no more iraq and it was okay and this was like 2010
[04:11:53] or something where you like i'd say 2010 that it was like okay fine and by the way i saw what happened
[04:12:00] to marcus i saw what was happening to all these other guys i mean they savaged dakota mayer for
[04:12:06] there's absolutely nothing no one can rationalize why that guy goes from american hero on a pedestal
[04:12:15] you know you you take wil swenson and dakota mayer each branch of service you get more for the exact
[04:12:22] same thing you don't think that's weird for those two guys you you don't think you're creating uh why
[04:12:28] are you doing that you can't say that wil swenson did something incredible that day dakota mayer
[04:12:33] did something incredible that day no that's not what you do you make it about branch rivalry you
[04:12:39] take two guys you're digging into people's lives this is trauma this is this is their identity
[04:12:46] right and then dakota decides to be a man and get married and because he married someone we got to
[04:12:53] put on tmz he's now a celebrity that gets followed by gossip magazines come on dude this is these kids
[04:13:00] are young they got their whole lives in front of them you're lucky they didn't end up you know
[04:13:05] you like a elvis in some vegas hotel just you know eating peanut butter sandwiches i mean
[04:13:13] you can't do that to young people and not give them the the opportunity to become normal again
[04:13:20] these guys can't work normal jobs they can't be normal you don't want them to be normal you want
[04:13:26] to exploit them to sell war bonds but then when they make money or they become successful you attack
[04:13:33] them for being horrors and i mean it's it's unsustainable and it and it's horrible to see it's
[04:13:38] like watching a slow movie freight train a baby playing with a you know stick a dynamite and
[04:13:45] you're watching this and all i could think of is my heart breaks for these guys i know them all to
[04:13:51] be honorable wonderful men but i'm so glad i'm not there i'm so glad that for whatever reason my
[04:13:57] path was different and i could just control it you know i love that and then it became a parent
[04:14:05] that not only was this going to be serious but reporters the same reporters going after navy
[04:14:13] seals for you know doing silly things the same guys loving the leavenworth dudes that were getting
[04:14:19] thrown in jail uh these reporters were like hey tell me about this incident tell me about this tell
[04:14:25] me about that and i'm like you know what you can all eat a bag of hot i am i'm loyering up dude
[04:14:33] you're not touching me not touching me right and these guys are like dude one of two things
[04:14:38] is happening either you're going to go to jail for 40 years or you're going to be the ambassador
[04:14:43] to france like we've never seen this before like there no one wants to acknowledge anything
[04:14:48] so i'm doing the radio show one day my contest line blows up like we give tickets to manheim steam
[04:14:55] roller and it's some someone from army personnel that's like you must pick up the phone or we'll
[04:15:00] come to your house and i'm like army personnel like that's not like there's no criminal c i there's
[04:15:09] no cbs show is going to spawn off g1 you know the army personnel yeah adamant 71 lima on on this
[04:15:18] episode of 71 lima paychecks we're gonna figure out the housing uh you know food crisis no it's
[04:15:29] it's ridiculous and then uh they're like a senior member of the dody wants to talk to you and i'm
[04:15:35] like maybe it's a dsc right well that's awesome senior member got to be chief of staff you know
[04:15:42] whoever and then one day uh they're like are you by your phone are you by your phone i'm like yeah
[04:15:48] and they're like the senior member the dody's calling and are you suspect at this point that
[04:15:53] you think it's the dsc you think dsc yeah yeah yeah because senior member they would just say
[04:15:58] you're getting the would just tell you i'm a girl man i mean what are we doing here it's not like
[04:16:03] let me go to the book phone rings i took a breath then answered the phone hello david an
[04:16:10] upbeat woman's voice said to me my name is madeline and i have president trump on the
[04:16:15] line wishing to speak to you is now a good time what the hell i almost said that out loud fortunately
[04:16:21] i caught myself uh uh yeah now's a good time my phone blinked suddenly heard president donald
[04:16:27] trump's voice come through my phone speaker david how are you do you know why i'm calling
[04:16:34] i'm a little nervous i admitted you should be nervous i should be nervous okay do you know
[04:16:39] what you've been recommended recommended for in that instant i knew what was coming was far more
[04:16:45] life changing than throwaway allegations the war was over i had moved on 14 years ago i was told i
[04:16:52] was nominated for the medal of honor sir a lifetime ago back then the thought of being awarded america's
[04:16:59] highest valor medal was seemingly a dream come true a validation of my skills and professionalism
[04:17:05] as a soldier it would erase the insecurities i'd wrestled with constantly and be a tangible
[04:17:09] symbol of my service to my father after all these years i could go home to him with something he
[04:17:15] could take pride in about his youngest son none of that happened well david you got it trump said
[04:17:27] just like that i mean when you it's one of two things it's alex balder from sarnay live or it's
[04:17:34] it's dial trump i mean the president states and honestly it was so surreal the moment i heard the
[04:17:41] moment you know you get a call from a flashy number and it's the switchboard of the white house
[04:17:46] then it can't be the dsc you know but the amount of cloak and dagger that's behind this thing is
[04:17:52] just so crazy and then it's not just you get in the middle of honor now which are the only guy from
[04:17:58] iraq so now this gives every weenie from the mainstream media an opportunity to be like let's
[04:18:06] re adjudicate why we went to war in iraq am i just a recipient of the middle of honor am i a mascot
[04:18:15] am i the guy that you just want to you know why is this happening why is there only one why are
[04:18:21] there so many afghanistan only one over here and you know i i i mean when you look at the timeline
[04:18:28] you know some of these guys have had the middle of honor for 10 years 15 years you know whatever
[04:18:32] why i think the old gen to was like 2012 maybe 1110 sometime around there i mean i was long out of
[04:18:39] the army when that happened so i'm the old the second oldest of the g watt recipients but i'm
[04:18:47] one of the newest recipients right and so it's like i kind of navigated all of that and kind of
[04:18:55] put that away you know maybe you do want to give it to a 23 year old go out there and enjoy it and
[04:19:01] have fun and you know get a you know buy a car dealership you know valer cars go do what you
[04:19:09] want to do with it but at this point it's like you know you're you're 35 and someone delivers a
[04:19:16] shuttling pony to your door you're like no santa i was 11 when i wanted that you know like that's
[04:19:23] it's not it's not what i did at this phase of life and then it starts happening and then every
[04:19:31] you you realize oh you know here's the key to the city and you know here's an allegation here's the
[04:19:39] you know what why why did you say this on the radio did you did you actually imply that this person
[04:19:46] should be beaten to death i mean like i've been doing the same thing for seven years come on
[04:19:53] the attention is and and then everywhere you go you're in the past tense they talk about 2004
[04:20:01] they don't want to hear about 2022 they don't want to hear about the future uh it's you know you're
[04:20:08] in a frozen in time you're at your own funeral everywhere you go and all i thought about was
[04:20:15] i went through this with 40 of the most beautiful people i've ever known in my life
[04:20:22] maybe i'll just go through with them again what if we make this award instead of being the guy
[04:20:26] that stands up there awkwardly in a uniform you've probably never worn as a soldier and you eat a
[04:20:32] bunch of shrimp and and you meet like Jimmy Kimmel right why don't you just say look i'm gonna be
[04:20:42] the guy that just constantly redirects it to the kids that got nothing right the ones that did
[04:20:49] everything i asked him to do and never received any you know maybe we just bring the band back
[04:20:57] together you know let's make the Medal of Honor about the unit why do you not go why don't you
[04:21:03] get to invite people to it you you get all these people to come to the White House but you can't
[04:21:08] invite the guys that actually were there that day why don't you want to do that you know why isn't
[04:21:14] this a unit award why don't you bring it's all of our we all did it right there was a camera there
[04:21:21] there was one guy and and uh you know it became a story that people talked about but did i do it
[04:21:29] could i have done it again i'll tell you again would i do it again knowing what this was no
[04:21:36] i would have called a bomb and waited for it patiently there's no way you want this if you
[04:21:43] are a person that is is going to live your entire life you know based on the past um i don't know
[04:21:52] of any other award where you have to wear it everywhere if you interviewed will smith and he
[04:21:57] brought the oscar you'd think he was a total douchebag you might think he's a douchebag anyway
[04:22:02] but and you might be right but my point is you don't bring that everywhere you go this is an award
[04:22:07] you're supposed to wear everywhere you're supposed to your identity this is like oh no it's there's
[04:22:14] only so many living and and there's only so many in our history and let's let's just everywhere you
[04:22:19] go it's this award first and i'm thinking to myself man that that it's the wrong there's so many let's
[04:22:28] talk about the iraq war let's actually have a discussion about what was sacrificed and what
[04:22:32] was accomplished because i'll tell you what all you people that want to ignore iraq for 10 years
[04:22:38] bagdad's more likely to host a summer olympic games than cobble is i mean can you actually look at
[04:22:44] the two wars and say that is iraq better today than the good war the war of choice in afghanistan
[04:22:51] and that's through no fault of american valour american blood but you could get a president
[04:22:56] elected tomorrow that decides ukraine's worth american treasure and blood you can get a president
[04:23:02] tomorrow that wants to hit no viscose for some reason i don't know look we don't make those calls
[04:23:07] but we fought a fight of our generation and we did it with valour we just went beyond the highest
[04:23:15] expectations of of what our military branches ask of us and i'm proud to be a part of the generation
[04:23:24] i might not have voted to go to war with iraq but i'm proud of my war and my war was iraq and i'm
[04:23:29] proud of the men i went to my i served with and uh make the award about that yeah and just to clarify
[04:23:35] you you you were the first living uh medal of honor recipient from iraq paul ray smith uh
[04:23:44] was the first recipient yeah but in that story is you know as close to audi murphy's you're gonna get
[04:23:50] it um the uh you detail this the you know as it goes from there so um first of all it's it's
[04:24:00] incredible you know as you make this decision to bring everyone in and you start reaching out to
[04:24:04] your old friends and you're you're reaching out to the gold star families the widows the moms i mean
[04:24:10] it's it's incredibly um emotional to read through it and how that goes down and what you're feeling
[04:24:19] and what you're thinking and um and then you know you get to the point where you're actually you're
[04:24:25] taking through the ceremony and i you know i attended mickey monstros medal of honor ceremony
[04:24:32] at the white house and you know was obviously honored to be able to be there for that but
[04:24:40] you just being able to read your experience and what that was like and and reflect on what i saw
[04:24:47] i mean you just did a great job of capturing the the ceremony and what happens um
[04:24:58] yeah it's it's it's a very powerful a very powerful thing and this idea that you talked about you
[04:25:04] know why not make it everybody else's award and it's not just something that you're saying right
[04:25:09] now it's what you actually did you reached out to everybody you got the band back together those
[04:25:13] those are the words that you use in the book um they allowed us to take those guys on stage oh no
[04:25:19] that was that was that was awesome that was epic that really was cool and and listen i gotta tell
[04:25:24] you i don't know i would have reacted you know they handled it with grace and love and the the
[04:25:34] ramrods of my unit were they're i don't think you know in my 20s i couldn't tell another man
[04:25:41] and you know we in the military we're super weird about you know we laugh at things that are
[04:25:48] you look at today and you're like you would never say these words or you never laugh at these jokes
[04:25:53] but expressing love in in my 20s was could not be done you couldn't go up to a guy in your 30s or
[04:26:01] your 20s in uniform and be like i love you you know don't ask don't tell just just love me write me
[04:26:09] a note or something and when you hit a certain age you realize i love you and i want to tell you that
[04:26:16] i care about you i really am proud to be in your life it's a gift that you and i are connected
[04:26:24] and no matter what happens in this world no matter what disappointment you have i know who you are
[04:26:30] i know what you're capable of i know what you've done for me and you know these the questions
[04:26:38] that i was always afraid of you know if i would have gotten this thing when i was 29 i probably
[04:26:43] would have been an idiot i probably would have you know i i i won't i won't suppose emotionally
[04:26:48] mature enough to be able to to realize that you're a product of the people you're with you know
[04:26:56] we smoke cigarettes at 14 and we blame you know peer pressure but peer pressure also makes you
[04:27:02] kick the door down peer pressure makes you clear a road ied's makes you jump out of a helicopter
[04:27:08] with a rope it depends on who your peers are if you got quality people they're gonna you're gonna
[04:27:13] be all right going with the following the herd is okay if the people are are worth it if you got
[04:27:19] dirtbags and scumbags you're gonna be an idiot so these kids are men they're all great people
[04:27:26] i'm blessed to have them in my life i'm glad we're back but you know it doesn't give you a pass and
[04:27:33] and there's always gonna be you know there's it's it's it's crazy how uh we think that something
[04:27:43] that we get is you know somehow gonna make you coast through like i think there's a mindset
[04:27:51] that you don't need to do anything anymore get a dui tomorrow and find out the first thing they say
[04:27:57] won't be you know a random guy in buffalo with a radio show it's gonna be uh you know du you know
[04:28:06] metal boner guy gets a dui as it should be don't get a dui don't be an idiot you know it's not hard
[04:28:11] to do uh yeah pretty pretty awesome um on that day when you talked about them coming on stage you
[04:28:21] say the president asked my family to join us on stage this is right after you received the metal
[04:28:25] boner this has become a traditional gesture to acknowledge the family my mother walked up to
[04:28:30] meet the president along with my brothers dan and ran and my three beloved children their mother
[04:28:35] stepped up to sharing the stage with them was unforgettable my family together in front of
[04:28:40] countless people across the world the effects of november 10th have rippled through their lives ever
[04:28:45] since even if the kids had not known it they earned this a gesture that was once an homage to them
[04:28:51] by our president and atonement for all the hardships we'd experienced as a family since my return
[04:28:56] as i stood there though my heart and head told me this needed to be first and foremost the ramrods
[04:29:04] spotlight their moment i needed to give this honor there on stage with the president to the men
[04:29:11] to mary lee and colin sims where it rightfully belonged i moved to president trump and asked him
[04:29:18] sir can i bring my ramrods up here i pointed to the audience trump was surprised this wasn't just a
[04:29:24] break in protocol this was taking a wrecking ball to it but the this president was never one to adhere
[04:29:30] rigidly to past traditions he asked how many are we talking all of them sir he looked over at them
[04:29:37] and said let's do it bring them up come on up here guys president trump rolled his hands over to
[04:29:43] welcome them get up here the ramrods flowed onto the tiny stage this felt right this wasn't my award
[04:29:49] this was our award our moment not mine we fought the battle fluge as one family we should we would
[04:29:56] share this stage as one family it reminded me i was never alone i always had them these men never
[04:30:02] betrayed me never let me down they did everything i asked of them and more they are the reason i am
[04:30:08] alive and did have my reunion with evan after all of course they were also the reason i was wearing
[04:30:15] this award there we were shoulder to shoulder one more time captain sims led the way for this moment
[04:30:23] he showed us that true leadership didn't end with our time in combat it took me 14 years to figure
[04:30:28] that out he wanted us to fight scrupulously not because he saw it as a path to victory but because
[04:30:35] he knew it was the only way we would survive the aftermath of war i had never known an officer who
[04:30:43] looked that far ahead he wasn't trying to just be our commander in iraq he felt that responsibility
[04:30:48] would be his forever as this event unfolded i understood the vision of our forever commander
[04:30:55] the medal of honor had brought us back together it was our unifying force
[04:31:06] and uh i what's pretty awesome is you can go watch this on youtube i hate to say it but you
[04:31:13] can go watch this on youtube and it's it's freaking outstanding to see it was awesome it was awesome
[04:31:18] to go through and and you know and so then uh you know the army watch it back and uh help out recruit
[04:31:24] do all those things and you know one of the things that really opened my eyes um the army is
[04:31:31] i i love my army and i and i i that's the soft spot it's always been don't let you know your
[04:31:38] army is depending on you and you want to do its best but the army also has changed a little bit
[04:31:46] and it's another generation's army it's not really my army anymore and i think that's not
[04:31:52] necessarily a bad thing but it's not a good thing you know all right and and there were times during
[04:31:59] this process where i had i had people in my life i i i wanted to be able to experience this award
[04:32:09] with with the the folks that i i had a new i had a new brotherhood of of people that i cared for
[04:32:18] for and because of the situation you know with divorce and the army and the white house getting
[04:32:24] involved and all the pr people the communications people it they were making calls and dictating
[04:32:30] decisions that weren't really putting me first right and and it's tough it's tough because you
[04:32:40] have to think well this is about the institution this is about this this is about but we're supposed
[04:32:46] we're supposed to be an organization that is lethal that's ready for the next fight and we are far
[04:32:55] too in the weeds as as an institution right now i don't know the navy or the air force or the marine
[04:33:01] corps but i could tell you that you know there is this generation we were supposed to you know
[04:33:08] they talk about that famous class in west point during the civil war that had all this experience
[04:33:13] in the mexican and the indian campaigns and how great they were in battle in the civil war because
[04:33:18] of all the experience they had that was supposed to be us after 20 years of war we're supposed to
[04:33:25] have the best generals and the best kernels because every one of these young lieutenants cut
[04:33:29] their teeth in combat we didn't have it after the gulf war they all went away and and you had
[04:33:35] peacetime and peace is great we love peace we fight for peace but my god we are hemorrhaging
[04:33:41] far too many light kernels and majors that are just saying it's not worth it and the guys that's
[04:33:49] sticking around for four stars i worry that in 10 years they're the ones that need it
[04:33:55] they got nothing else to do there was a time when our four star generals were the best of they were
[04:34:02] ceo's you know i just saw one retired the other day this guy could work anywhere in the country
[04:34:08] he's that good and paul funk is one of the greatest generals the armies ever seen what's
[04:34:14] going to happen in 10 years are we going to have the best of the best or are we going to have people
[04:34:18] that just hung out long enough survivor island they kept on held on to the torch and they're there
[04:34:26] it's it's it's uh it's sad but i i want my command star majors to all have been privates in romani
[04:34:33] and felucia i want my generals to have been lieutenants in cabal and in afghanistan we don't
[04:34:42] we're losing it well that would certainly be a an ideal thing and uh speaking of ideal things you
[04:34:52] get you ended up giving a speech and this speech the next day this is at the hall of heroes at the
[04:34:58] pentagon and you end up giving this speech it's uh it's an amazing speech it's if it's an amazing
[04:35:04] speech it's got a bunch of views again once again you can go watch this um but you in the speech
[04:35:12] a lot of is that you just paying a tribute to the men you fought alongside and you pay homage to
[04:35:20] all the services but there's one part of the speech that i think it captures what you just
[04:35:27] said of what the ideal what the what the american military is supposed to be
[04:35:34] and i just want to read this real quick you say this and go watch this whole speech on youtube
[04:35:41] you say this the entire military is one cohesive dedicated force and the threats to our nations
[04:35:47] they don't sleep they're watching our every move iran russia china north korea isis al-qaeda
[04:35:55] they may be watching this right now our military should not be mistaken for a cable news gab fest
[04:36:05] show we don't care what you look like we don't care who you voted for who you worship what you
[04:36:12] worship who you love it doesn't matter if your dad left you millions when he died or if you knew
[04:36:18] who your father was we have been honed into a machine of lethal moving parts that you would be
[04:36:25] wise to avoid if you know what's good for you we will not be intimidated we will not back down
[04:36:34] we've seen war we don't want war but if you want war with the united states of america
[04:36:41] there's one thing i can promise you so help me god someone else will raise your sons and daughters
[04:36:50] we fight so our children never have to we fight for one day when our children and our enemies
[04:36:57] children can discuss their differences without fear or loathing we fight so that anyone out there
[04:37:04] thinking about raising arms against our citizens or allies realizes the futility of attrition
[04:37:11] against a disciplined professional and lethal force built to withstand anything you can dream of
[04:37:17] throwing at us americans want this kind of country americans want this kind of world and we stand
[04:37:27] ready to defend it to protect us so help us god may god bless this beautiful army
[04:37:35] may god bless our marine corps our navy our air force and our coast guard
[04:37:43] may god bless our allies and we already know that god blessed america because he gave us
[04:37:51] the greatest fighting force this world has ever seen two two infantry and the first infantry
[04:37:58] division thank you ramrod's duty first dukes
[04:38:12] again to me that's the military that i tried to join that's the military i tried to
[04:38:19] represent when i was in and many of the those i served alongside that's exactly the way they felt
[04:38:25] and you captured it um incredibly i appreciate that um little editorializing at the end of
[04:38:34] the greatest fighting force the world's ever seen you know that might be hyperbole but my point in
[04:38:39] in that is that you know i think we're all raised differently in the in the military our leaders
[04:38:46] gave us tough love but now that we're out we're still ambassadors and it's very very important
[04:38:52] that people start to see veterans you know we're not some infomercial for sally struthers
[04:39:00] for 99 cents a month private snuff he can get a cup of coffee you know what i mean like we got uh
[04:39:06] you know like wounded dogs and cages and building houses i love those institutions
[04:39:13] but we're gonna run out of houses to build we're gonna run out of wounded men and women who gave
[04:39:18] us everything for our country god bless their sacrifice god bless their service but i don't
[04:39:24] want a cottage industry of you watch a recruiting commercial it's followed by a guy lost his limb
[04:39:32] trying to open his kitchen cabinet i mean that's a really schizophrenic message to send to america's
[04:39:38] young people how do you honor service and sacrifice without bookending it next to a commercial saying
[04:39:45] join us and we too will give you a kitchen countertop that allows you to cook in front of your family
[04:39:50] in case the worst thing happens hey listen everyone knows what's going on with service and the men
[04:39:58] and women who have sacrificed who've been out there they empower us they're they're walking vessels
[04:40:05] of valor our generational valor no one should cheapen that no one should denigrate that buy
[04:40:11] them two houses and an additional car in fact take it from iraq let let the iraqi people pay
[04:40:19] reparations for our dead and are injured i'm all about it i have no problems with that at all
[04:40:25] but at the same time we still have to have a warrior class in america and this is just the
[04:40:33] victimization of veterans is something that just absolutely a fine repugnant and it's not helping
[04:40:39] us it's not making us more deadlier or more lethal on the battlefield it's not intimidating our
[04:40:45] adversaries and it's not bringing peace to our allies it's it's it just shows that well eventually
[04:40:50] america will get it eventually we'll understand that the greatest generation was the greatest
[04:40:56] generation of american because they knew they were at war and they had to do everything to win their war
[04:41:03] you want to say no to war forever i'll be with you i don't want to see war again
[04:41:07] but if this is going to happen it's got to be overwhelming devastating and a reminder to your
[04:41:13] future generation go to dental school and learn a trade don't fight against americans because it is
[04:41:21] going to end in tears every single time and i just don't think we're that military anymore and i
[04:41:26] don't think our elected officials want us to be that military anymore you know hearing the stories
[04:41:33] of people joining our military to get hormone therapy it's it's like what are you doing your
[04:41:43] combat ineffective you can't deploy why would i why would i want you in my team what do you do i
[04:41:51] want a college degree font you want to cause you're fantastic you want to be a citizen fantastic
[04:41:56] you want to better yourself better your community better your country i'm all about giving you the
[04:42:02] tools to make your society better for serving you're not bettering yourself because you're selfish
[04:42:11] and you see yourself in a different light and this is what's best for me it's not best for your
[04:42:16] community it's not best for your country it's best for you and that's the opposite it's literally 180
[04:42:22] degrees from what we're supposed to be and i just don't know why more people aren't standing up
[04:42:27] standing up especially you know our generation saying just because i'm who we are does not offend you
[04:42:37] i mean representing our true self of what the military is and what veterans do
[04:42:43] is not something it invokes pride right it gives us swagger it gives us security it gives us pride
[04:42:50] it gives us patriotism if it's offensive to you that's the problem that's your problem it's not
[04:42:57] it's not the institution's problem i'm so sick and tired of having to apologize for what what do
[04:43:03] you want me to do you know the first question that we got asked uh when we did the whole little
[04:43:07] media thing after the Medal of Honor is what do you say to the families who lost loved ones in
[04:43:13] iraq or afghanistan and i'm thinking to myself the fact that you have to ask that just shows me i mean
[04:43:22] what are you goose stepping with you know what side you tell a family member that their loved
[04:43:29] one died so that we could live that's what happened their sacrifice could have been any one of us
[04:43:36] they put themselves in a position so that we could have a tomorrow and a future and if that
[04:43:42] is difficult for you to understand then i'm glad you never served honestly the part of me wants
[04:43:49] to think that maybe we think we're better than civilians and other parts want to say well some
[04:43:54] people can't do this some people don't want to do this i get all of it but there are certainly people
[04:43:59] that are offended by people who make the choice to serve their country or serve in you know any
[04:44:06] sector of first responders or any of these other folks they're just offended by everything
[04:44:13] and i honestly i don't even give a damn about i mean you're you're just a a vacuous non-entity
[04:44:18] at the end of the day if you're not going to put the fire out if you're not going to help
[04:44:22] tell everyone there's a fire and all you want to do is comment on why the fire got put out
[04:44:29] then you're just a jackoff like there's no there's no there's nothing in the chain that says i need
[04:44:35] more of that so stop acting like you're on an equal platform with a disabled veteran you know
[04:44:43] let's give a service dog to everyone if you need a dog get a dog i'm not offended you have a
[04:44:48] dog i don't think you need a potbelly pig i think you're being obnoxious with a peacock i think when
[04:44:54] you brought a bull with fairy shrimp in it you're just being an ass i mean we we can differentiate
[04:45:00] between the people that need to be put on a pedestal and the people that just want to be
[04:45:06] acknowledged for being different they wanted to serve they love our country they love our family
[04:45:12] we're all different walks of life but that doesn't mean that we're not proactive to people that
[04:45:18] are obviously trying to get in the way of this family tradition today if you're joining the
[04:45:24] marine corps the army it's because your dad did it because your uncle did it why isn't this a
[04:45:29] decision everyone is making you you have an obligation to go to college everyone has an
[04:45:35] obligation well you got what you're not going to college what's wrong with you what do you mean
[04:45:40] you're not going to college there obviously you're not serious about succeeding in life it's
[04:45:45] ridiculous and then you think yourself why isn't every single 18 year old saying i'm going to do
[04:45:51] my two years and find myself i'm going to learn about people and be uncomfortable and be different
[04:46:00] and sacrifice and see the world and see different people and be surrounded by diversity and difference
[04:46:07] i don't have to force the diversity it's already there there's diversity everywhere right and it's
[04:46:14] in the military it's in every walk of life there's diversity embrace it it's beautiful but it's
[04:46:21] different and you have to be exposed to that different to grow i don't understand why every
[04:46:26] able-bodied person isn't saying i want some of that i want to be better i want to take care of
[04:46:33] myself i want individual ruggedness i want to be tough i want to survive right and and you've got a
[04:46:40] generation of website developers that that you know i mean seriously if a zombie apocalypse
[04:46:48] happens i look at there was a time when you know a person said i want a partner who's going to be
[04:46:53] there for me when it all goes down and now that decision isn't i want someone who who what
[04:47:03] look i understand that you know things have changed we can't change we have to be the same
[04:47:09] yesterday today forever and the military cannot adapt to this schizophrenic nature of hey today
[04:47:18] we believe the following individuals you know are a protected class today we believe the following
[04:47:26] individuals can reproduce today we believe the following i mean you want to kick out 15 000
[04:47:32] people for vaccinations what did you do with anthrax did you dishonorably discharge them
[04:47:38] what did you tell them you said you don't want the anthrax well you know you're not going to defend
[04:47:44] your country with all the people you trained with for a year why don't you take the anthrax
[04:47:50] that was the choice mm-hmm am i going to not deploy with these men that i consider family to me
[04:47:56] because what i don't know what anthrax is if anthrax was naturally occurring outside of training
[04:48:03] grounds in san diego would people not respect you know this vaccination thing to me is is a is a is a
[04:48:12] object lesson and how we have completely decided that we want our universe instead of our university
[04:48:19] is becoming more like our our military we're deciding to make the military plug and play
[04:48:26] to everything that's happening in society and unfortunately the enemy gets a vote
[04:48:30] and the enemy doesn't give a damn about inclusiveness or feeling good the enemy wants to kill you
[04:48:38] they want to kill you as quickly as they possibly can and i don't want a military that feels good
[04:48:45] at the end of the day about who they are i want the military to feel good about who they are because
[04:48:49] they dominated the battle space and americans don't know what a mortar incoming or outgoing sounds like
[04:48:55] right that's a problem yeah i mean um the military has one purpose
[04:49:03] and that's to be able to fight destroy the enemy that's what it is and if you if you're doing things
[04:49:09] to the military that don't enhance that capability it's a problem and if you know you said that the
[04:49:17] enemy doesn't care what they're doing what we're doing actually they do care what we're doing
[04:49:20] and they're trying to encourage it as much as possible they want us to be as weak as they can
[04:49:26] possibly make us they can get drugs over the border they can put uh uh programs on your phone that
[04:49:32] that fill your brain with a bunch of stuff that makes you think things that are not healthy
[04:49:37] like that stuff's actually happening that's actually happening so hopefully well i'll tell you one
[04:49:44] thing these books that you've written um in my estimation any 15 to 23 year old male that reads
[04:49:55] these books will be encouraged to move in the right direction because they lay out what it means
[04:50:03] and and like i said they're they're an incredible there's incredible arc between the two books
[04:50:09] and they're incredibly powerful and and this is these are stories that need to be told these are
[04:50:14] stories that need to be told so people understand what it takes and what it means and what a brotherhood
[04:50:20] is inside of a military organization and what sacrifice really is and we can never forget
[04:50:28] these things and you would think you would think the way the civilian populace sometimes behaves
[04:50:34] you'd think that these wars didn't happen they happened a couple years ago you know they happened
[04:50:42] a couple years ago and you know what they're gonna happen again they're gonna happen again
[04:50:53] and there's there's there's always going to be war there's always going to be conflict what
[04:50:56] conversation do you have if that if that does go down in five years you're talking to an 18 year old
[04:51:03] and they're like did you foresee this coming how what you go to universities i know some people
[04:51:11] don't touch the the you know vassar giving the the talks on the circuit but one of the things
[04:51:17] that young people in college will always ask you know a veteran is what can we do to prepare
[04:51:24] for the future and sometimes the answer of you need to be prepared to kill 20 communist Chinese
[04:51:31] is you know 20 million people want you dead there's a way that we can say to the Chinese government
[04:51:42] the people of China are not the enemy the people of Russia are not the enemy the people of Iraq
[04:51:47] or Afghanistan are not the enemy but no Venezuelan leader or mullah and Iran or or forever leader of
[04:51:55] China is is going to dictate what the world how the world behaves so i i don't think the i would
[04:52:05] have told you at the end that i hung up my uniform that the world was better and safer
[04:52:10] and i'm i'm disgusted that you know as we grow into our twilight our kids are gonna have to learn
[04:52:17] to shoot move and communicate and that's heartbreaking and and and i don't know what how
[04:52:23] do you have that conversation there's only one thing that's more heartbreaking than that and
[04:52:28] that is if they don't learn to shoot move and communicate because if they don't learn to shoot
[04:52:32] move and communicate that will be overrun i mean at some point you have to be able to back up
[04:52:39] with the way you want to live you don't just get to walk around the world doing whatever you want
[04:52:43] without being able to defend that way of life and if we don't maintain that ability to defend
[04:52:49] the way of life that we often take for granted here it'll go away it'll go away
[04:53:01] all right books coming out november 8th everyone buy it immediately remember the ramrods where can
[04:53:08] people find you right now what are you doing right now so uh we are uh audacy.com the david
[04:53:14] bill of via show five days a week four hours a day tons of content that is not really meant to upset
[04:53:22] anyone uh pretty pg-13 stuff but i gotta tell you i find that what i'm trying to do with my radio
[04:53:31] show is to have discourse you know i don't see the world the way a left-wing progressive sees the
[04:53:39] world i respect them i want them i need them in my culture in my society i don't want to cancel them
[04:53:47] i want to learn but i need you to understand that if we disagree we need to discuss how to
[04:53:53] disagree and there's a way that you can have a discussion with someone that you disagree with
[04:53:57] and leave it with respect and we have no ability to have discourse in the in the country today
[04:54:04] and so what i try to do with my little piece of the of the of the world is just facilitate quality
[04:54:10] critical thinking and discourse this isn't how you i disagree with x y and z inflation energy
[04:54:18] oil this is what i feel about abortion marriage wonderful i don't care what you think it really
[04:54:24] it's boring to me what you think how do you think why do you think that that's far more interesting
[04:54:31] because it always is going to come to a selfish exercise i feel this way because i robbed a bank
[04:54:37] and i would like to be reformed no bail right it's always like there's always a story that makes you
[04:54:42] have why are you against uh you know pan asian trade well i'll tell you i have a tire company
[04:54:49] and my intellectual property was it there there's always a reason for it so what you think no one
[04:54:54] cares about why you think it and how you think to me is the is the secret sauce and so what i try to
[04:55:02] do in a talk show is get 80 year old people and 20 year old people from all different walks of life
[04:55:08] to tell me you know you're transgender tell me what do you what would what what motivates you to
[04:55:15] call into a talk show what do you want people to understand because i don't get it i don't mean
[04:55:20] and i don't mean disrespect i don't understand it help me understand it no i'm not here to help you
[04:55:26] understand it i'm here to tell you you're wrong okay well i do have a problem with that because if
[04:55:31] i'm asking you to help me understand something and you refuse to that's where everyone shuts down
[04:55:38] and we label each other and we're you're this or you're that i'm just saying i want to know
[04:55:43] what where are you coming from and why is it important that i give a shit about what you where
[04:55:48] you're coming from because i bet you you don't you don't care right i could bore you for four
[04:55:54] hours with the Buffalo Bill secondary and why the Tampa two you're going to be like no one
[04:55:59] cares dude no one gives a damn i do why do you care so much about it why are you so into a football
[04:56:05] team is there anything else going on in your town maybe there isn't a chicken wings they're cool
[04:56:11] you know be fun wick is fun logan berry why do you fit feel this way why is it important that i
[04:56:17] understand where you're coming from and if i can't get your respect enough to see me as a person
[04:56:23] then i i you're not even all you're doing is uh is is annoying people no really and we have to
[04:56:32] stop annoying each other and just say look where you're coming from why because i'm a veteran
[04:56:38] does not make me better than a person it isn't a veteran and for a long time i thought that way
[04:56:43] in my heart of hearts i'm better than you right that's not true i've learned in my elder years
[04:56:50] that that's ridiculous your patriotism has nothing to do with what you did in the military out of
[04:56:55] the military right i just would like you to love the home team i think that's you know just love
[04:57:02] our team and and be supportive of it and at the end of the day if you can respect people and
[04:57:08] disagree with them man i think we could solve all of our problems right it's fun it's a little
[04:57:16] frustrating but it's fun how long is the show it's four hours a day five days a week and it's
[04:57:23] i get a lot of canadiens you know the canadiens we're close buffalo is close to toronto the
[04:57:28] canadiens no more about the constitution than we do and the canadiens have nothing but like
[04:57:33] state-run information they don't have choices so they'll be like listen let me tell you about
[04:57:39] the second amendment why it's important you know the articles of confederation didn't allow us for
[04:57:44] a standing army of like where are you from brampton you're not even you're not supposed to know any of
[04:57:51] that you know your prime minister needs a haircut like it always it's always an education and it's
[04:57:59] super fun and i think it's a great service to just say hey uh we we have to be better we can be
[04:58:06] better optimism is great it doesn't make you naive be hopeful look forward to the future but it's
[04:58:13] all about the way we conduct ourselves and our discourse and how absolutely toxic it can be
[04:58:19] by just saying nope you're one of them i don't want to hear it and uh nothing gets done after that
[04:58:29] uh to find you david bella via dot com david bella via dot com and go to odyssey dot com and
[04:58:35] what is it odyssey dot com odyssey at uh a u d ac y used to be enter com now they changed your name
[04:58:41] odyssey what about your social media do you actually have it i don't really do i mean i just for the
[04:58:47] book we started a dg bella via uh at dg bella via twitter and uh facebook one but what happens is you
[04:58:55] get all these like uh nigerians and people that create you know i'm i'm on like dating sites like
[04:59:03] i need money to get out of iraq you know could you help me so i just need a thousand bucks i'm trapped
[04:59:10] and you know in napal it's like no that's not me that's not but there's a lot of those out there but
[04:59:16] so you're not so you're on instagram too or no it's i'm on everything but dg bill dg bella via
[04:59:22] david bella via instagram uh david bella via on facebook uh all that stuff but dg bella via because
[04:59:30] there's so many accounts on twitter but uh that's that twitter but for the most part i don't really
[04:59:35] do that the social media thing is just main are you are you nuts over there i'm not nuts on it but
[04:59:40] i'm i'm on it i'm not and uh how long how long i see with the the time right right with the you
[04:59:47] know working out and stuff yeah um do you get a good response from that or do people get
[04:59:52] i don't know i mean some people chime in yeah people people chime in do you read any comments
[04:59:57] i'll you know i'll look through the comments sometimes but um you know i don't get i don't
[05:00:03] get all hyped up about what anybody says i mean if somebody says something cool i'm stoked but if
[05:00:09] there's someone that wants to you know say something negative it literally doesn't bother me at all um
[05:00:14] i just kind of like oh cool you know it's a bot you know who the bot is right so it's just a bot
[05:00:21] but there's people that get really spun up about that stuff i just look at him say that's a bot
[05:00:25] where you where you get spun up about it of computer program in russia or something that's
[05:00:29] putting that information into you uh but no i've i've found social media to be mostly good i've
[05:00:36] connected with some incredible people i mean i've had people come on the podcast that were you know
[05:00:40] vietnam uh world war two that i that i connected with them through social media so that's been
[05:00:46] awesome i get great feedback from people um what we the some some of the stuff i make i'll get feedback
[05:00:52] hey you should make this you should make that i'm like oh that sounds like a good idea i didn't
[05:00:54] really think of that i think if you go into social media with like a a positive mindset as cheesy as
[05:01:02] that sound of like okay there's gonna be some good stuff in here you're gonna find it if you go in
[05:01:07] there worried about a bunch of negativity which there's definitely gonna be uh it'll drive you
[05:01:11] crazy so i don't get wrapped around any of it wouldn't it take for you to get to that that
[05:01:16] enlightenment was it a man i was on jill rogan's podcast and jill rogan's like hey dude you know
[05:01:23] like at some point he goes hey this is the first time i was on this was 2015 and he's like dude
[05:01:28] you know when this comes out don't read the comments it's like a warning right uh and i think you
[05:01:35] know in the military you get thick skin right and so i would say i definitely had thick skin so they
[05:01:40] came out and i sat i remember i sat in my daughter my daughter's room my oldest daughter and i we
[05:01:46] were reading the comments and i was laughing hysterically because some of them were pretty
[05:01:50] freaking funny about you know i'm on the andre fall and obviously i could barely string a sentence
[05:01:55] together and all these things and i was just laughing and it seemed funny and so i think from day one
[05:01:59] a from rogan's comment like hey don't read the comments i didn't take that literally what i took
[05:02:05] it was is hey look there's going to be people that are assholes and when you read people from people
[05:02:10] that are assholes just say yeah roger that and and some of them like i said some of them are pretty
[05:02:14] funny um so it didn't take me long at all didn't take me long but you know it's a thick skin you
[05:02:20] you know you're in the military any weakness that you show is immediately getting pounced upon by
[05:02:25] your platoon mates and you're going to get torn apart so it's literally the worst defense in the
[05:02:30] world is to say ouch that really sure please don't ever mention my goiter it's going to come up 85
[05:02:37] times i've got i've got something in the world that really bothers me and i've never told anybody
[05:02:43] what it is ever and i never will i'll probably leave it in my last will intense testament say hey
[05:02:48] you all in my platoon that did this at some time or if you wanted to really piss me off if you would
[05:02:54] have done this it really would have bothered me but i'd never let you bastards know so i don't
[05:02:58] tell anybody you know so i started telling young people that you should be the same way about your
[05:03:03] dreams i think everyone should have a fake dream that they give no don't have so how do you utilize
[05:03:09] this the don't ever share what you really want to do in life it's no one's you have to protect that
[05:03:15] that's what you want what do you want to be in 10 years why the hell am i telling you there's
[05:03:20] a one school of thought of that is like when i say hey man i'm gonna lose 30 pounds and i
[05:03:26] posted on the internet hey everybody i'm gonna lose 30 pounds and then you're like oh i better
[05:03:29] lose it or else i'm gonna look like a shipper or hey i'm gonna run a marathon and i'm gonna run it
[05:03:33] on this date and so there's i forget there's a name for that you know what the name for that is
[05:03:37] uh something along the lines of public accountability public accountability so that's the thing
[05:03:42] where where you say hey my dream is to you know uh create my own or write a book right and so you
[05:03:50] tell everybody and now you kind of get pressured so what's your reasoning behind not telling people
[05:03:55] i don't i think you should protect you have people in your life trust is everything right so
[05:04:02] you have people in your life that you trust these are your life partners and everything else
[05:04:05] that's what that relationship is all about right together we're gonna raise a family
[05:04:12] we're thinking about buying a sheep farm outside of san diego it raised them together in harmony
[05:04:19] all right that when the moment you go out and start telling people this is my ambition why
[05:04:25] what i want to expose what i want or what i i'm not manifesting i don't need accountability
[05:04:33] from people if i'm losing 30 pounds again this is i think we we as a generator we're saying
[05:04:40] roughly yeah i think the social media of we are the ones that screwed up social media it's not the
[05:04:46] young kids it's the it's the gen Xers that you know in the old days um i would drive by your house
[05:04:53] and be like you're a loser right out the window and now i i stop at the driveway and i'm like let's
[05:04:59] wait for a comment it's not enough to scream you're a loser now i gotta wait in my car to be like
[05:05:04] who's gonna come out and debate me on whether or not i think you're a loser and we put things on
[05:05:10] social media that are just like we're thirsty for some sort of response that i'm proud that you're
[05:05:18] losing 30 pounds good for you you need to look you know what that's healthy who gives a damn either
[05:05:23] you're doing it because you want to do it or you're doing it because you want people to think
[05:05:27] you're doing it at the end of the day if you have a dream to be a 50 year old law school graduate
[05:05:33] shut up they should they should find out about your r&b album the day you drop it now i'm in the
[05:05:39] studio do you know what to me because all you can do is you're gonna hear for three months what the
[05:05:43] hell are you thinking chocolate's got a cookbook that's awesome let's see the day it comes out why
[05:05:51] am i telling everyone busy in the kitchen today so working on the recipe so there's where i think
[05:05:56] now i now i see uh i'm capturing or i see i see a similar vein with people where they get satisfaction
[05:06:04] just by saying you know hey i'm i've always wanted to write a cookbook i'm gonna come out with a
[05:06:08] cookbook and they get a boost from that they get a what is it a door endorphin a dopamine hit they
[05:06:15] get a dopamine hit by telling you hey man i'm writing a cookbook right now and that's enough to
[05:06:21] make me feel good that i don't actually do anything right as opposed to me not getting that instead
[05:06:28] of going and freaking hammering on my computer with my steak recipes would you would you rather have
[05:06:34] four 27 inch biceps or would you rather have vegetable oil in your arms it looks like no honestly
[05:06:40] you could look way you would look and if you were that iranian yeah yeah that guy who
[05:06:46] who doesn't think you invite him to move and he can't lift the couch he can't do anything he he
[05:06:52] has what was the equivalent for you of telling you what my dreams are don't i don't just injecting
[05:06:57] what is it what are they injecting their biceps echo child biceps expert what what was the less
[05:07:01] did you have this in the seals if you had a new girlfriend or a wife would you ever show anyone
[05:07:08] a picture of someone that you were romantically connected how long was i romantically connected
[05:07:16] to said woman the only time they should ever see your partners in person because that is the dumbest
[05:07:23] thing that is a little way that is why would you do that i want to show you who i'm dating
[05:07:28] and then you wait for like what is the responsible to be like oh my is she okay
[05:07:32] hey where is she from trinobyl you don't do that ask you hey that's weird too bro nobody
[05:07:39] asking you a picture of my girl i saw if that if that's your friend and you're like oh i heard
[05:07:44] you're dating somebody new like yeah what tell me i don't know i feel like that's normal i had a i
[05:07:49] knew a guy who had a picture of his family and and all you know his daughter and his wife they're in
[05:07:55] bikinis and i just said hey listen man you got no you got to take this picture down because it's
[05:07:59] it's not only inappropriate there's no way this is safe this is not safe for anyone they make a
[05:08:05] comment they're weird they don't make a comment they're probably normal right but why would you even
[05:08:12] do that don't ever in the military rule number one is you never show a picture of anyone you are
[05:08:20] involved with because there's no point to it it's weird i now that you're putting it to that's a
[05:08:25] horrible thing to do that was one thing when i was reading your book and you or no when you were
[05:08:28] talking today and it's also in your book like one time my my wife asked me i was on deployment
[05:08:34] it's in ramadi and my wife says oh the kids want to see a picture of where you sleep you know and i
[05:08:38] had like we had some old saddam building and we had you know built our little plywood freaking beds
[05:08:43] in there and stuff like this and so i'm like cool and i would email my wife like once a week
[05:08:48] you know a little update you know hey chow's great uh miss you blah blah blah how the kids
[05:08:54] and so i went to take a picture of where i slept at night and i realized there's like no picture so
[05:09:00] i went until like my went to my freaking locker pulled out pictures of my wife and kids pinned
[05:09:06] them up took a picture took them all down put them back in the folder put it in the drawer and shut
[05:09:10] it because that's smart just like you were talking about like the last thing i needed to be thinking
[05:09:14] about over there was my wife and kids absolutely and and that seems like a maybe that seems like
[05:09:22] it's not healthy but i think it's completely healthy you got guys depending on your decision
[05:09:25] making without a doubt it doesn't mean that you don't love it's like whenever i see a facebook
[05:09:30] profile it's like joe and kim jones and like oh no you know you're like oh so good heaven you know
[05:09:40] what i mean like you're there you don't want to be a two-headed monster you gotta have autonomy
[05:09:45] but you also have to have trust yeah i had the luxury of my wife being very i've described emotionally
[05:09:51] dependent so she didn't need me to be like telling her you know hey i hope everything's great and
[05:09:56] she was like hey i got this i got the home i got the freaking water heater when it breaks i got the
[05:10:01] whatever the toilet when it gets stopped up you handle your you know what your business overseas
[05:10:06] and i'll take care of this stuff and that was pretty very lucky yeah lucky to be in that scenario
[05:10:09] but to me and and it's the ultimate in and just you know being making those choices and putting
[05:10:16] those barriers up because there's in today's you know private sector and jobs today is absolutely
[05:10:24] no i mean like you know you bring you bring your lunch to work you don't make lunch at work
[05:10:31] you know because you don't get in the kitchen and start constructing a meal like what the hell's
[05:10:35] wrong with you you know it's like i have one the pet peeve that drives me nuts is the wet hair
[05:10:41] hair what's the wet hair anyone that shows up with wet hair like is it raining out no you have no
[05:10:49] time management there's just be late be late and present this is coming from a guy that bought a
[05:10:55] blowjarts you know i learned lessons in life but there's no reason why someone should be running
[05:11:01] into work brushing their teeth you know doing it's just i'm gonna be late and then i'm gonna show up
[05:11:07] and i'm presentable i'm ready to go this isn't a meeting with you know tribal elders the first 45
[05:11:14] minutes we're just gonna waste time talking about the weather show up be ready everything's cool
[05:11:20] you always got that guy that's going from like cubicle to cubicle asking how you doing what's
[05:11:24] going on they we have no line of like what's personal what are you doing this weekend none of
[05:11:30] your damn business bob get my my expense sheets don't you know what i mean like we're buddies you
[05:11:37] want to be friends i don't want to be friends i want to just get the get the job done you know what
[05:11:42] i mean with dry hair while we're at it yeah echo charles you got any questions i do not sometimes
[05:11:48] echo throws that curveball in the end man so you know what i mean dope of me sure yeah it's a thing
[05:11:53] it's real it's real david any closing thoughts no i want to honestly uh what you do is uh it's
[05:12:01] important to our generation and a lot of people look up to you and it's rare that you meet someone
[05:12:07] that's worthy of that there's a lot of people that have the pedestals the products this is what i want
[05:12:13] the world to see this is the person i want to be and the perception and you're legitimate you're
[05:12:21] you're who you are you who you there's no difference with a microphone is this on by the way
[05:12:29] no with when the mic when the mic job with the mic's odd it's the same and and that's it's
[05:12:36] refreshing i really was afraid that i was going to meet you and i was going to be like oh man i
[05:12:43] wonder what that guy would be like who's that guy what's that guy like i i if you've never done that
[05:12:48] we met someone and you really really thought they were just totally squared away this is someone
[05:12:53] i could look up to as a mentor and then you just like no i have done it but i'm just wondering
[05:12:59] what asshole jaco would be like who's that guy oh you can tell am i like uh i don't know what
[05:13:05] i'm what i'm doing cold what would i be doing covid jaco is that your ulterior well i had covid
[05:13:13] a couple times it was no factor no fact i remember when that when you cut a video that you had covid
[05:13:18] there was like there was controversy it's like oh what what did he do yeah what i tell you i told
[05:13:23] me be at covid people like oh he must be yo i was doing events well i like during covid there was
[05:13:30] times where i went to like the first live event that i did with covid when covid was a thing
[05:13:36] and i went to this thing it was in arizona and i forget what month it was but i went and i was
[05:13:43] thinking like oh how freaked out is everybody going to be and i wasn't freaked out of covid
[05:13:48] because i was like young and healthy and anyways i went to this event and and then they said hey
[05:13:53] can people shake your hand when you're done i'm like yeah cool and so i stepped down off a stage
[05:13:58] and they all lined up about 500 people out of a thousand or whatever and the funny thing was was
[05:14:04] there was sneeze on jaco there was a few people there's probably 10 people that had masks on as
[05:14:09] they approached me right so then they come they come up to take the picture they shake my hand
[05:14:14] they take their mask off to take the picture when they get close to me i'm like i just you know so
[05:14:20] yeah i got covid but maybe that's the the evil jaco well you would figure if you're going to be
[05:14:26] a person it's usually when you're sick or you're not in sound mind but but but those those were the
[05:14:34] viral jaco videos are not what you expect them to be they're not like the there's not it's not
[05:14:42] controversy it's just something that happened to you that people make viral because i can't believe
[05:14:49] it's like as if you had covid it was a declaration like you wanted to talk about your vaccine status
[05:14:55] there was a time when that question was asked some people didn't want to talk about it some people
[05:14:59] did some people said it's none of your business but the assumption that you had covid it meant
[05:15:04] something about vaccine status we now know it's ridiculous it's ridiculous that yankees air and
[05:15:10] judge he got covid everyone's like i can't believe you didn't get vaccinated i still do that by the
[05:15:15] way when i hear that someone gets covid i'm like why wouldn't you want to get vaccinated it's so weird
[05:15:22] like you should know better you're the vice president of the united states you should get
[05:15:27] vax i thought it's safe and effective like do it everyone's doing it
[05:15:33] but i'm telling you it kills me i i love that i remember that moment specifically
[05:15:38] when everyone was was asking like what was he doing yeah well as you know from doing radio
[05:15:42] four hours a day you can't pretend to be someone for four hours a day and just like on this podcast
[05:15:47] you can't come on here i can't come on here and talk for hours and hours and like be in some character
[05:15:52] mode where i'm pretending to be someone that i'm not i think it would be hard for me but there's a
[05:15:57] lot of mme guys a lot of guys that just are not i mean look i i i love the sport and i think
[05:16:06] those guys are tim kennedy's one of the coolest guys totally i mean i love that dude he's funny
[05:16:11] he's just a maniac yeah but there are a lot of people that just aren't tough people the the the
[05:16:19] facade is they're tough but they're not tough you know what i mean and i just think that that's
[05:16:27] it's cool that there's no you know you don't you don't have to put that out there it's it's
[05:16:33] genuine it's real and you don't have to to you don't have this is not a podcast an interview show
[05:16:40] the podcast format is like this is how jacos sees the world you know let me tell you what i like
[05:16:47] i like fudge i like fudge i like cookies and i like pumpkin pie and then you do a podcast about
[05:16:53] just you you're sharing this platform with a lot of people giving opportunities um putting the light
[05:17:00] that's on you and other people helping people sharing ideas being consistent it's important it's
[05:17:05] appreciate i don't know if you get enough but i really do appreciate this and i appreciate you
[05:17:10] you're letting me be a part of it and everything you continue to do because it means a lot seeing
[05:17:15] people that you emulate turn out to be honorable and decent is awesome so thank you you i don't know
[05:17:22] about i'm nobody does okay that's how he likes it that dopamine thing scared me he had that way too
[05:17:28] quick it's real he's called dopamine yes sir right well man uh uh it's you know i've said this a
[05:17:36] couple times and on this podcast i mean if you could sit down and talk with john basalone for three
[05:17:43] four five hours like what i wouldn't give to be able to do that so he's from buffalo yeah i love
[05:17:50] that so to be able to sit here and talk to you for you know however many hours we've been going um
[05:17:56] it's just an honor and i know that so many people are going to learn so much from this
[05:18:01] so thanks for coming on thanks for the lessons learned um thanks for your service obviously
[05:18:07] thanks for your leadership and thanks for the example that you set for for everyone in the army
[05:18:12] and and everyone in the military and really for the citizens of our country of how to be
[05:18:20] how to be honorable that means that means a lot and i really appreciate that my last question for
[05:18:26] you i'm gonna let you go if you could do it over again what what elite branch do you think how would
[05:18:36] you rank them the the all the branches and each one of the elite branches they all have great guys
[05:18:44] who's the one group though that you worked with it said and you thought these guys are like that
[05:18:50] were equals well i worked with special forces guys that are better than me i worked with marines that
[05:18:57] were better than me i work with uh whom i'm missing i work with army rangers that were better i worked
[05:19:03] with i've worked with guys from the 101st that were better than me guys from the 137 that were
[05:19:07] better than me there's there's studs in all these groups i've also worked with every one of those
[05:19:12] groups that with guys that were not as good with guys that you didn't want to go on a mission with
[05:19:17] you so to me there's great incredible guys in in in all units and and then there's also in all units
[05:19:27] there's people that are are crap but just as as as as institutionally delta you got the you know
[05:19:35] uh mars okay you got the uh air force specialize right individuals there's gonna be good and bad
[05:19:44] but the one group that you looked at and said wow if i wasn't a seal i'd want to be that that's if i
[05:19:50] wasn't a seal if you weren't a seal can't be a seal i mean there's a you didn't get the vaccination
[05:19:54] they kicked you out yeah actually they let them all stay in thank god uh if i wouldn't if i wouldn't
[05:20:02] have joined the navy i most likely would have joined the marine corps uh just because like every
[05:20:08] well like most of the young men i grew up with when you looked at the marine corps you thought
[05:20:13] hey it's the marines yeah because they do such a good job with their culture and with their image
[05:20:19] and and the marine corps an outstanding group and so i probably would have ended up in the marine
[05:20:24] corps and if i wouldn't end up in the marine corps i would have been in the army because
[05:20:27] it's the same thing uh let's see i'm dodging again now i'm feeling like i'm dodging your question
[05:20:33] i don't know who i would actually what if your daughter said she wanted to go what would you
[05:20:37] suggest if my daughter said she wanted to go into special operations no she wanted to join the
[05:20:42] military what branch would you think would you want your daughter in uh the air force you know
[05:20:47] no without making that a punchline why is that well uh my i'm just my oldest daughter came to
[05:20:55] mind um she's very analytical she's really smart i think that she could bring a lot to the table
[05:21:01] in that kind of environment probably be in an intel officer she's really good at
[05:21:04] assimilating information and she'd probably be really good at that job so there you go yeah
[05:21:13] no because i could always and i would be horrible at that job you know analytical no just being
[05:21:17] being an intel officer in the air force i don't think it would be a good fit for me
[05:21:22] do you think have you ever been could you be a pilot are you too big to be a pilot uh because
[05:21:26] they're kind of like jockeys a little bit yeah they're a little bit like jockeys uh one of my
[05:21:30] really good friends is a is a top gun pilot the marine corps and i had i had no desire whatsoever
[05:21:38] to be a pilot none zero i had no desire and you know even like riding into bradley i never liked
[05:21:45] riding into bradley i always felt like i wasn't in control like it was this machine and i couldn't
[05:21:49] really now look i wasn't driving the bradley i was always sitting in the back like you were freaking
[05:21:52] sweat my nuts off and wondering where the hell i was right right no situation so so i'd rather
[05:21:58] be in a higgins boat yeah that you could see where you are yeah that was so so but being a pilot for
[05:22:03] me i never had any desire i'd i'd watch a movie and i didn't care i wanted to see what the grunts
[05:22:09] were doing yeah i always wanted to be on the ground and more specifically i wanted to be
[05:22:13] some kind of a commando of some kind i wanted to like put cammy pain on and sneak over beaches
[05:22:19] and kill people that's what i wanted to do that's the only that's the first job i remember wanting
[05:22:25] like when i've realized i'm gonna grow up and i had to do something i wanted to do that something
[05:22:31] where i put uh uh cammy cork on my face you know because we used to burn the cork and put the black
[05:22:36] on our faces when we were little kids i wanted to do that over the water into enemy territory and
[05:22:41] kill bad guys that's the only thing i remember wanting to do so that's why if i want to join the
[05:22:45] steel teams it would have been the marine corps because the marine corps was in the water and
[05:22:49] i knew that much even as a young kid but pilot was never was never was never into it never
[05:22:57] even thought about it for a minute so i i always wondered that because it what i think about like
[05:23:04] the um even when i watch avatar i'm rooting for the marines and that i know they're the bad guys but
[05:23:10] that i don't like the blue people are the ones that like i like the i always watch the movies for
[05:23:17] the guys that i i can identify not that you know they're evil they're hurting the you know the
[05:23:22] wonderful blue people but i'm just saying i get it i understand that in the navy the guy every time
[05:23:28] we watch a navy seal movie there's a guy comes out of the water and like gets ready to hold the body
[05:23:33] oh yeah is that a real thing no no that's the the move that movie is called active valor
[05:23:39] and yeah that's not real no that's not real they that's like a that movie is like a
[05:23:48] hour and 30 minute music video of the real bullets yeah they uh you know it's a big
[05:23:55] recruiting thing it was a big recruiting thing and they got some guys to play the roles in the
[05:24:00] movie they they hired these guys they hired this production company to make a recruiting video
[05:24:06] and the guys said hey we can make a recruiting video a 30 second or a one minute recruiting video
[05:24:12] or we can make a 90 minute feature film what do you want and then the naval special warfare at the
[05:24:19] time said well we need people uh let's do it and so it was a big recruiting tool and you know and
[05:24:26] the navy benefits from that because because no one basically no one makes it through seal training
[05:24:33] it's a very small number of people that make it through seal training so the navy gets all
[05:24:36] these dudes and it that's one thing that's that's horrible about trying to go in the seal teams
[05:24:44] is that if you don't make it through the seal team if you don't make it through basic seal
[05:24:46] training you're in the navy and if you're the type of personality that wants to be a machine gunner
[05:24:52] you're gonna end up on a ship in a engine room turning wrenches or changing oil or whatever
[05:24:57] and look that's a legit like that's a legit job for some people some people love or turning wrenches
[05:25:03] some people love being at sea on a ship some people love that kind of job that's what they
[05:25:07] should do and they join the navy to go do that which is perfect but if you join because you
[05:25:11] want to be a seal and you don't make it you're gonna end up in that job that you really don't
[05:25:14] want at all see what's nice about marsock or special forces in the army if you don't make it
[05:25:20] through special forces selection cool you're an infantry line yeah you're you're still in an awesome
[05:25:25] spot you can go back later you'll learn more same thing with the marine corps the seal teams is
[05:25:30] rough in that aspect man you don't make it through seal training you're done you're doing a job that
[05:25:35] you most likely don't want to do that's fascinating that's a good point never thought about that so
[05:25:40] be careful of that man be careful that young people out there that's why go in the army
[05:25:45] go in the army become an infantry man you pick your own mls yeah there you go anywhere and you
[05:25:49] could be extra special 11xv awesome man thank you so much thank you appreciate it with that
[05:25:57] David Belavia has left the building
[05:26:04] whoa crazy town crazy town yeah it's honestly if you're listening to this right now get these
[05:26:12] books and read them they're really powerful and there's so much there's like i said during the
[05:26:21] podcast there's entire storylines that are in these books that i don't didn't even come close to
[05:26:25] mentioning today we even get we even get close to that part of the story which is a this story
[05:26:31] runs the whole thread this other story is in there the whole time there's so much going on he does
[05:26:36] such a great job capturing it the house to house book you can tell when you read it that he's a
[05:26:44] couple years off the battlefield but his mind is not off the battlefield yet his mind is in the game
[05:26:49] when you're reading that thing it is very intense it is very raw and and then you get to read remember
[05:27:01] the ramrods which is what almost two decades later well i guess 15 years later 15 years a long time
[05:27:11] in a man's life 15 years a long time and you learn a lot and you see a lot and you go through a
[05:27:17] lot more and you get perspective on stuff so it's a really incredible read both these books so
[05:27:27] check these books out they're awesome there was a couple of things that he mentioned and i was like
[05:27:34] ah i really put into perspective in a crazy where where he where he described a sniper that they found
[05:27:42] and he was attached to like ivy just to stay there the whole time and what he he said there was a hole
[05:27:48] in a table yeah so he just laying laying on the table so he didn't have to go to the bathroom or
[05:27:53] nothing just right there through the hole in the table just staying there for just days and days
[05:27:58] and days to be a sniper that is committed that is committed there's some committed insurgents
[05:28:05] that are ready to die for their cause did you notice he said something super small
[05:28:12] it's kind of a side note but like he uh he goes when he was anticipating maybe the battle of honor
[05:28:21] scenario and someone's like oh there's also a tape out there and then he was like oh there's a tape
[05:28:27] let's show me the tape and then he said what's in the box yeah he said show me what's in the
[05:28:31] box and then he kept kind of talking to me do you know what that's from what's in the box i do know
[05:28:35] what it's from it's from the movie seven right which is interesting because again because he's now
[05:28:42] older yeah first of all he knows he's forgotten things second of all you learn eventually that
[05:28:48] your perception of what's going on in combat isn't the same as what's really going on in combat so
[05:28:55] he now now at this age he knows that like oh there's a video i wonder what i'm you know he's he knows
[05:29:02] he knows what he thinks he did he knows what he thinks he said he also at that age knows that
[05:29:10] what he thinks he said and what he thinks he did may or may not be on there may or may not be perceived
[05:29:18] the same way by everybody else so that's why he's like what's in the box that was to me that was a
[05:29:24] pretty much perfect movie analogy it's very impressed yeah what's in the box he wants to know
[05:29:29] but he don't want to know it seems like it was that kind of deal i liked it yeah so much respect
[05:29:33] for that as well yeah yeah and if you get that you can watch it on parts of it on youtube i didn't
[05:29:39] know that there's he mentioned a 29 minute version so that would be the entire the entire event
[05:29:47] probably from the time they get to the house they go in the house they get everyone out of the house
[05:29:50] they wait for the bradley's brother like that whole thing is probably 29 minutes there's one clip
[05:29:55] that i've watched which is maybe like five minutes long and it's basically from the time they're
[05:29:59] getting to the house the last time when he's gonna go in and kill everybody that's on video on youtube
[05:30:06] that you can go and watch and look it's not like a movie because most of it's just black
[05:30:12] like flashes noises explosions you don't really know what's happening
[05:30:17] you now once you've read the book and now you hear the podcast you're gonna be like okay that
[05:30:23] must be what's oh okay that's what and but then you see you know at the end of it here they are
[05:30:27] dragging these bodies out of this house that this guy went in there and killed and yeah it's
[05:30:36] it's definitely wild and that movie by by where the the movie the only the dead
[05:30:44] it's definitely a fascinating movie to watch and and you get you have to understand his
[05:30:51] perspective a little bit it takes a little getting used to because for me you're watching it like oh
[05:30:57] wait this guy's with musha hadeen forces that are attacking americans like i hate this guy
[05:31:02] but what are you doing you're embedded with like i hate you like why don't you stop them
[05:31:07] and so but then you realize hey he's trying to figure out what's going on and
[05:31:10] and so you end up understanding what he's doing even though at the time
[05:31:16] and there's some i i actually i need to watch it again because there's some that dichotomy is
[05:31:21] brought out in a way that is makes it easier to understand because let's face it if you're freaking
[05:31:26] sitting there while musha hadeen forces are getting ready to kill americans and you're not
[05:31:29] doing something to stop them i got a problem with you you know and i think some of it is like he's
[05:31:34] with them and he's like holy shit they're doing an attack and he kind of just he knows if he says
[05:31:38] anything they'll just kill him um and yeah it's it's a really but then and then at a certain
[05:31:45] point the movie he basically stops embedding with the moose because he realizes that they're evil
[05:31:50] and he starts embedding with the americans but he has got a lot he passes a lot and he passes a
[05:31:55] lot of intel to the americans and especially to like david bella via and his platoon he's given them
[05:32:03] exact intel about who they're fighting and it it's really clear in the book how helpful he was from
[05:32:09] that perspective but who knows maybe uh at some point we can have michael where he's he's got all
[05:32:15] kinds of crazy stories from his all the insane things he's done and it's weird you know like
[05:32:20] i guess the the the highest degree of of explaining all that would be a documentary right but at the
[05:32:33] same time a documentary is only going to be an hour long and you know you got limitations and what
[05:32:38] you can put in there and how long you want to whereas if he's coming explain some of that stuff on
[05:32:41] the podcast and maybe a little bit of a longer format you could get down to some some good
[05:32:46] some good information that may not be conveyed properly in the in the in the hour and a half
[05:32:55] long documentary yeah hey how hard like wait have you ever done judicious you look with full gear on
[05:33:03] like the full gig how is it a lot different like it feels like especially just even how he
[05:33:09] sort of mentioned is seems like dang that might be a lot harder actually no it's it's not it's not
[05:33:16] a lot harder yeah it's not a lot different it's a little harder it's a little different it's not
[05:33:23] a lot of either i feel like then again then this is more of a question like the bottom game would
[05:33:29] feels like it'd be a lot more different than the the top game wouldn't be that much no but they're
[05:33:34] both about the same different oh for real yep yep that was a excuse that got used by people
[05:33:42] when it came to training martial arts and jujitsu in the seal teams it was like well you know jujitsu
[05:33:47] you just wear a gi you don't wear all this gear or jujitsu you just wear a rash guard so it's
[05:33:51] unrealistic and you're not going to be able to fight when you have gear on and which is they would
[05:33:56] say the same thing about you or i would make comparison to parachuting because when you
[05:34:02] parachute with military equipment it's this big parachute and you've got you could potentially
[05:34:07] have a weapon with you potentially have a rucksack with you and you could have protect potentially
[05:34:11] have your web gear with you and you have all these things on so it's a lot different than me running
[05:34:16] down to sanny acedral or wherever and doing a civilian jump where i'm just like literally
[05:34:21] wearing a pair of short sneakers and i jump out a little back a little little uh parachute on my
[05:34:26] back and jump out throw out you know it's just real easy and slick and cool yeah but here's the
[05:34:31] thing if you're really good at those slick cool civilian jumps and you put a military rig on
[05:34:36] you're gonna be really good same thing with shooting sometimes guys would be like well you
[05:34:41] don't want to learn the bad habits of target shooting or of three gun shooting which is a certain
[05:34:47] competition type of shooting you don't want to get the bad habits from that but if you take a guy
[05:34:53] that is a three gun shooter competitive and now he's in combat he's just gonna be infinitely better
[05:34:59] now look are there certain little things you got to watch out for yes there are certain little
[05:35:03] things that you got to watch out for you know i don't know if you've ever heard the story but
[05:35:07] there's a shootout in florida i think it was in florida and the cop when they the cop got killed
[05:35:13] and when they did like the investigation he had the shells from his revolver in his pocket
[05:35:20] which meant that as he was reloading instead of just dumping the shells from his revolver he was
[05:35:27] catching him putting him back in his pocket which is a habit that he got from being on the police
[05:35:31] range and you don't want to have to bend down and pick up your brass so you just put him into
[05:35:34] your hand you put him in your pocket so he had lost whatever three quarters of a second or a
[05:35:40] second and a half on every reload because he had this habit so you do have to pay attention to what
[05:35:47] bad habits you may or may not get from doing these civilian activities that are complementary to your
[05:35:56] military career so for instance there are positions in jujitsu where it may not be the best thing to
[05:36:05] do because oh you got a sidearm right or like let's say your police officer there's certain
[05:36:10] positions you want to use because it doesn't expose your weapon it doesn't expose your weapon to
[05:36:15] being grabbed so you want to do certain things that are a little bit different now would i rather
[05:36:21] be a cop that's a purple belt in jujitsu that might have one bad habit or some cop that has no
[05:36:30] experience in jujitsu is going to get the shit beat out of you you're going to get the shit beat
[05:36:35] out of you that's what's going to happen yeah so so so jujitsu with gear on is slightly different
[05:36:44] slightly harder but very very similar and it's and it's similar enough that it's going to make all
[05:36:51] the difference in the world yeah one of these scenarios and yes and keep in mind even if it was
[05:36:57] like a lot bulkier and a lot harder it's still better than no jujitsu and which i've always
[05:37:03] thought or whatever but i was wondering at the time you know you obviously you know he tells the
[05:37:07] story all good so i'm like thinking about it like how that looked and how that felt or whatever and
[05:37:12] like i kind of imagine like trying to choke someone and you know like you ever like maybe if you have
[05:37:17] the gi on and they're fighting your choke or whatever and maybe they're not even fighting that
[05:37:21] good but it's easier to fight a choke with the gi on versus with no gi right because you can just
[05:37:26] grab any part of that thing or whatever so with the bulky gear on chest plate helmet like all this
[05:37:32] stuff it's like kind of hard i would think it'd be harder so i'm like shoot i wonder how freaking
[05:37:37] hard even if the dude is untrained i wonder how much harder that would be it'd be the same as training
[05:37:43] versus untrained like a jujitsu fighter yeah someone that doesn't know jujitsu is lost yeah and i
[05:37:49] feel like sometimes well a lot of times anyway people don't do jujitsu or maybe they'll do another
[05:37:53] martial art or maybe they'll advocate for another martial art they'll do the straw man thing where
[05:37:57] they'll be like yeah you're gonna pull guard in the street or whatever like i think it's pretty
[05:38:02] common knowledge that someone who knows jujitsu and they get in a fight with a guy on the street
[05:38:06] or in a kill house or whatever they're not going to pull guard on the guy they're gonna
[05:38:09] it's like hey let me basically what they do is they look for the most inappropriate move of
[05:38:15] jujitsu and they say what you're gonna do that that move on the most inappropriate time whatever
[05:38:19] when the the reality is no jujitsu is like a bunch of moves actually infinite moves and you know a
[05:38:26] certain amount of those infinite moves and you're gonna do literally every single time that you
[05:38:30] possibly can the most appropriate move for the appropriate time and pulling guard on the street
[05:38:35] guard is one of the many moves that's more yes geared towards a training scenario like with
[05:38:40] another jujitsu guy or with you know a tournament scenario whatever but that's not like a yeah
[05:38:47] that's not a self defense or a real fighting no unless you know like for for Bella via this
[05:38:54] dude comes out of the closet if he would have just like like hit him and knocked him to the ground
[05:38:59] and all of a sudden David Bella via is on the bottom oh yeah and that's not pulling guard that's
[05:39:02] that's very different but you are on the bottom and you are gonna need to get out from the bottom
[05:39:06] or at least control the guy from killing you you better know guard so you better know guard at that
[05:39:10] point yes so and you know that's exactly what what he said too you know and look you got you got all
[05:39:17] your friends you got a machine gun all your friends got machine guns you got a pistol all your
[05:39:22] friends got pistols you got a knife all your friends got knives you'd think there's a pretty slim
[05:39:27] chance you're gonna have to actually kill someone with your hands or with your helmet or with your
[05:39:33] knife it's pretty small chance but there you go there you go so keep training everybody keep training
[05:39:43] awesome honor to have him on with that speaking of training when you train you're gonna need to
[05:39:49] feel your system it's true it's true jockel few so again i know this common knowledge or whatever
[05:39:56] but this is one of those deals where you know you can get plenty supplements from plenty places
[05:40:00] you know but you want to get the for real clean on the one with only upside no downside yeah that's
[05:40:06] what i had to add it's true so the drinks the energy drinks which have no sugar in them the energy
[05:40:16] drinks which have no chemical preservatives in them this is what everyone else is feeding you
[05:40:22] the stuff that has sugar in it the stuff that has chemical preservatives in it the stuff that has
[05:40:27] chemical flavoring in it we don't have any of that this stuff is literally good for you you can get
[05:40:33] it get milk get the ready to drink milk by the way we had a little uh jockel fuel board meeting
[05:40:39] today we started discussing how much milk ready to drink we should make and i'm listening and there's
[05:40:47] comments being made you know it's going to be this investment it's going to do this thing we got to
[05:40:49] do with this far in advance important information like what how much should we boom we're going back
[05:40:55] and forth and finally i said hey make as much milk as you can make as much as you can we're like we
[05:41:03] have it at the gym here victory it's selling out in like a day it's gone so everybody loves the ready
[05:41:10] to drink milk so we are going to make as much as we possibly can to get it to everyone because it's
[05:41:17] the best it's just the best it's just so good so good for you so convenient now look do you get the
[05:41:24] powder mulk yes i have the powder mulk that's my dessert but sometimes you need that midday
[05:41:31] hitter and something you think man it's going to take me four minutes to make a mulk no no not gonna
[05:41:36] it's just gonna open up an rtd ready to drink did you are you familiar with the term rtd yes sir
[05:41:42] is that a normal uh term to be familiar with is everyone familiar with that term ready to drink
[05:41:48] you know i think it's a i think it's an industry term yeah you know rtd like a normal person doesn't
[05:41:53] say that ready to i might be thinking m re oh yeah that's meal ready ready to eat yeah r e no this is
[05:42:02] different but it is a drink and it's ready well it's kind of the same yeah very similar uh so
[05:42:08] hey check it out for jockel fuel stuff look you can go to jockelfuel.com you can get the drinks at
[05:42:13] wawa you can get all the stuff at vitamin shop it's all at the military commissaries it's at the
[05:42:20] hanford supermarkets up there in the northeast dash stores in maryland wake fern and shop right
[05:42:29] circle k in florida where at heb you know that texas if you're in texas go to heb i know you're
[05:42:37] going to heb go to heb go to jockel fuel get what you need that's why we got it in there for you
[05:42:45] apparently kicking ass down in heb so thank you go get some and murphy's down in the southeast
[05:42:51] that's where you can get jockel fuel and if you don't have those retails stores in your area
[05:42:57] jockelfuel.com go get some what else well that origin can't forget about that american made
[05:43:06] stuff started with jiu-jitsu geese yes we did but now now there's a lot of other stuff jeans boots
[05:43:13] new washes of the jeans by the way i got all three oh you oh wait a second over here i didn't get
[05:43:18] them yet i'm sorry some people got it beast thing some people don't know uh it's okay but yeah
[05:43:22] amanda roberts about the amanda roberts i know you're listening right now you know what i need
[05:43:29] i don't want the light i don't know no send me all three i don't know i was gonna say send me all
[05:43:33] three because i was gonna say i don't need the super light ones but pete was reminding me pete
[05:43:36] said he was driving his motorcycle and it was hot it was a sunny day and the the really light
[05:43:42] jeans they don't absorb the heat did the job yeah so yes amanda roberts please hook brother send
[05:43:51] all three washes of jeans to my house as soon as you can i i did agree i agree with you there though
[05:43:58] i you don't strike me as the light wash jeans wearing tight i would that's what i i has a
[05:44:03] tated on it but then i remember what p roberts sold me functional p roberts told me functional
[05:44:07] like when i'm out in the desert heat i don't want to wear a black pair of jeans i want to wear a
[05:44:11] nice pair of light pump with light ones you make a good point all of them fit the same
[05:44:16] functional functionally sound 100 by the way yeah so yeah jeans boots some belts the belt even
[05:44:23] it's a side it feels like a subtle thing very impressive very impressive if you're gonna make
[05:44:28] it make it real good that's the kind of the overall concept right yes sir all made in america
[05:44:33] by the way yeah well that's not even a by the way yeah that's a hey listen up made in america
[05:44:40] if you care about human beings don't buy stuff that's from other countries yeah because they're
[05:44:46] not taking care of their human beings they're they're enslaving human beings to make you your
[05:44:50] product they don't care about the environment they don't care what they do with the dye when it's
[05:44:54] done dyeing whatever they're making they just put it in the ocean put in the rivers kill all the
[05:44:59] animals they put it they crap in the atmosphere so if you care about people if you care about planet
[05:45:09] earth and if you care about america then go to origin usa and get some origin usa.com that's what
[05:45:16] we got oh yeah big time also jocles store it's called jocles store so we can represent the path
[05:45:21] discipline equals freedom good we've seen that video before we know that concept good you want
[05:45:27] to represent so you can get it also we got a short locker which is a new shirt every month
[05:45:31] subscription scenario new shirt some cool designs on that one good feedback on that one but yeah
[05:45:37] that's uh you can get that at jocles store.com as well uh subscribe to the podcast don't forget
[05:45:43] about jockel underground don't forget about the youtube channels right the jockel podcast youtube
[05:45:50] channel i do a lot of assistant directing and let's face it when i do that it's kind of a big deal
[05:45:55] you do good work uh also origin usa has a youtube channel if you want to see what's happening at
[05:46:02] origin usa check that one out we're showing kind of what's going on behind the scenes there
[05:46:08] psychological warfare i've been saying i was going to make another one of those for like five years
[05:46:13] yeah slowly we're kind of being created with some of that stuff and let's get out a little bit it's
[05:46:21] good it's good all right so psychological warfare if you want to get a little mp3 activity for yourself
[05:46:27] when you have a moment of weakness flip side canvas dakota meyer kind of interesting today
[05:46:33] speaking of dakota meyer i asked david bella via hey what what flavor drink do you want i said we
[05:46:40] got this we got that he goes let me try that black cherry vanilla and i was like cool ran down gotta
[05:46:44] go by the way that's that dakota meyer's drink that's his signature flavor he's like hell yeah
[05:46:48] yeah so i should have got a picture of that yeah god i'm an idiot well you know what you can pull
[05:46:54] some off the camera off the video yeah when he's taking a drink right of course yes sir you can do
[05:46:59] that right yep i knew we can send it to dakota and be like hey dakota birds of a feather yeah a bunch
[05:47:06] of books hey these two books remember the ramrods an army brotherhood in war and peace and then house
[05:47:14] to house both of them by david bella via uh just outstanding books if you have any interest in history
[05:47:23] in combat in war in human nature in the limits of mankind on an individual level of bravery
[05:47:33] get these books they'll both be available on our website but sometimes people go hey what
[05:47:40] what what books should i read they're all on the website they're on the website go to jocopodcast.com
[05:47:46] go to books on the podcast there's a tab is that the right word yes sir there's a tab
[05:47:53] and you can get those get get only crime for the living by holly mckay final spin i'm bummed
[05:48:00] david bella via talked to me for 10 minutes about how much he freaking loved final spin it was great
[05:48:07] blah blah blah and we and we didn't we weren't recording we weren't recording echo charles
[05:48:13] next time which is great good job that's my battery you had one job two jobs what was the other one
[05:48:18] and a half uh yeah so so check out final spin check out all these leadership books i've written
[05:48:24] the kids books i've written um mic and the dragons weigh the warrior kid one two three four about face
[05:48:30] we talked about that today i wrote the forward to the new version of that so get in there extreme
[05:48:37] ownership dichotomy of leadership echelon front have a leadership consultancy a leadership consultancy
[05:48:44] where we work with companies all over the world teaching them leadership principles that we learn
[05:48:48] on the battlefield if you're interested in that for your organization go to echelonfront.com
[05:48:53] and if you're just an individual that wants to come to an event wants to learn these principles
[05:48:57] face to face you can also go there check out our events we also have online training online training
[05:49:03] for leadership and life look leadership is a mindset that's going to help you in every aspect
[05:49:08] of your life it's not necessarily oh i'm in charge of 42 people and these are the leadership principles
[05:49:12] i need to know no it's like oh i'm in charge of me i'm in charge of my two kids i'm in charge of
[05:49:19] the three peers that i have at work i'm in charge of my group of seven friends whatever it is if
[05:49:24] you're interacting with other people you are leading people so learn how to make your life better
[05:49:31] by the way it all starts with you learn to lead yourself learn a decision-making process for the
[05:49:35] things that you do you get all that through courses and through live interactive training on
[05:49:42] extreme ownership.com go check that out and if you want to help service members active and retired
[05:49:48] you want to help their families you want to help gold star families check out marclise mom
[05:49:53] mamalie she's got an incredible charity organization if you want to donate or you want to get involved
[05:49:59] go to americas mighty warriors org and also don't forget about mike of fink who is taking vets up
[05:50:05] into the wilderness so that they can search and find themselves heroes and horses org and if you
[05:50:14] want to connect with david bella via go to david bella via.com he's on instagram sometimes
[05:50:21] he's also got that radio show facebook is david bella via radio so check that out as for us
[05:50:31] we're on twitter we're on the gram on facebook echoes at echo charles i am matt jockel willing
[05:50:38] of course and then we kind of got in this discussion i'm buying through it all it's not all good
[05:50:44] but social media can it's just like fire right it's fire fire can be good it can cook your food keep
[05:50:51] you warm social media can give you connect you with people give you some good information fire can
[05:50:57] also burn your house down and kill your whole family guess what social media can cause a lot of
[05:51:01] significant mental problems as well so be careful that's what i'm saying uh once again thanks to
[05:51:09] david bella via for coming on here for sharing your story and we will not forget what you did
[05:51:19] we won't forget your proud tutu ramrods duty first and thanks to everyone else in the army the navy
[05:51:29] the air force the marines the coast guard for your service and sacrifice thank you all for being the
[05:51:36] best military in the world and don't lose sight of that thanks as well to our police and law
[05:51:42] enforcement firefighters paramedics emt's dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret
[05:51:49] service all first responders thank you for protecting us here at home and everyone else out there
[05:51:55] there's been much sacrifice for our freedoms let's make sure that we live to honor them let's live
[05:52:08] like lieutenant ed ewan from his epitaph ed who lived every moment stood in the rain heard the
[05:52:21] thunder danced to the lightning and believed in rainbows go live every moment and until next time
[05:52:35] this is echo and jocco out