Jocko Podcast 344: Modern Combatives. How We Fight, How We Train, How We Live. W/Dean Lister.

2022-07-27T14:30:09Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @deanlisterbjj @echocharles Dean Lister and Jocko analyze Military combatives manual and evaluate. How to stay on THE PATH JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Jocko Store Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com Jocko Fuel: https://jockofuel.com Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Echelon Front: https://www.echelonfront.com

AI summary of episode

Like, remember, like, if we're having like one of those days, you start pulling the shirt up and bro, then we got back and forth, like, we're still bros, but we're still like, okay, slap, slap. You know, actually, the first time I learned lake locks before, choke holds in a seminar, it's on Nikolay Baturin, he was a Soviet champion, Osombo, Oltatar was there, other Russians were teaching, they were saying like, the reason they prefer lake walkies because, you know, big in Russia, I'm with my wife, she's very attractive, and they go to a bar, strange man grabs her inappropriately, I'm very upset, I break his arm, now he goes, the vehicle gets Kalashnikov, he comes back and dead, I'm like, bro, I'm 18 or 12, man, I don't know, fuck. So, actually what's interesting is in that book that Fieldman, who I was looking at, you know, I'm looking at the rest of it and it has all these like, their foot patterns and it looks like these dance moves to like avoid and like strengthen your power. And by the way, what if you know, a guy's got a wife and kids and he's got a mortgage to pay and all of a sudden, it's $148 a month to train Jiu Jitsu or it's $165 a month to train Jiu Jitsu, all of a sudden it's like, I gotta make a choice between getting my kid a new bicycle and training Jiu Jitsu, you know what, I'm gonna sacrifice this month and the next thing, they look up in three years and they're not trained anymore. So things like that, they're teaching the recruits, I'm talking to like 200 people in the class, it was one of our services, I won't say which one, and teaching people to hold it like this, I'm saying, well, even in boxing, I wouldn't do that, but with big gloves, it makes for a sense, you can see over that right there, is someone who actually has never been punched in the face without gloves on. And I, in my mind, I just know, I believe like, you're just so much better than me and we're rolling, I'm just trying to, you know, but at the end of the day, I know like you're just so much better than me. Maybe that actually played into the whole, okay, he's compliant, maybe it's actually good, but I'm saying, they were saying how he still survived because he was trained, so that was just, and you know the guy, I don't know his name, but that was Sarge and all the guys in there, like it's a tight community, so I think it's good to try that middle ground. Let's say, okay, you tapped me out, Dean, you tapped me out real quick and then I'm like, oh man, cool, and then I like act like I'm gonna walk away and then I jump on your back and we start rolling again. I would, but you know, he's having them like this, I'm like, you know, at least want to be here, or maybe, it's just interesting that that person teaching people how to punch with no gloves on, probably has never punched in the face. Like, like cut you, you know, break your cheekbone, things like that. and they don't wanna learn like the new knee lock, you know, and they're doing like the combattas, but for the Bortak, it's pretty cool because they're not just sitting around while they're going on duty, but they actually training every day. And, you know, cause it's different, that perception or whatever, but he's like, yeah, you know, that's just something like, okay, that makes sense. You know, it's just kind of funny that someone thinks that maybe I've never been in a real life altercation outside, you know, also like, like I've had my, that's why I look special in my face. So the thing is like, I mean, if you rely upon that right there, specifically that, you don't have that available to you, like, you know, you're not keeping yourself up to date upon if something goes wrong, the drilling, I think it's really good. He's the one that started to train and formalize, and kind of push this well-rounded approach, realistic approach to hand-to-hand combat, and eventually his work, and look, I'm giving one person all the credit right now, I'm sure he would talk about all the people that helped him get there, but this is the person that I know of that was involved, and like I said, I'm sure there's many more people, but he certainly was a spearhead on this, and his work, and whoever he was working with at the time, eventually became an Army Field Manual, an Army Field Manual, three-tact 25.150 combatives. You were at, I don't know about the seal base, but you were there and someone was like, yeah, you know, you put your finger in the collarbone and you're like, no. He's a guy, he actually has, it's like a, it's tagged in like YouTube, so it's like X Army Ranger, plus 10 years of bouncing experience, is one over 500 bar fights, never been hit in the face once by a system. and he like, as it was probably gonna break, he like released and like, whatever, moved his weight. And they were like, oh, if this is done, like if I did this for real, you'd immediately be like paralyzed on the right side of your body and that would cause you to fall down. But like I just said, if this stuff is getting taught by some authoritarian figure and you can't really test it in any way, and you know, this is someone that's a, you know, a 38 year old who's talking to an 18 year old recruit that kind of wants to believe, by the way. So all that, like we, now we're getting in, this is just talking about like how to run a program, how to set up a program, what the safety protocols are, and then it gets into the like the actual fighting. You know, like Dean, Dean, like there's a certain level of, if Dean and I get in that zone, there's a certain level of, it's just a way to make it a little bit more fun, a little bit more consequences. You know, so the way, you know, but if we spar with boots and you kick in the knees with boot, you know, it's gonna hurt, you're gonna get hurt real fast. You can go hard, and look, you can spar in boxing, and you can, in wrestling, you're going live against other people, but when you take that and put it together into martial art, Jiu Jitsu was like bringing that forward, and boxing did it, wrestling did it, Jiu Jitsu does it, Muay Thai does it, but who didn't do it was like Dim Mock, and the old kind of weird traditional martial arts that didn't actually do anything, except for theory. As far as like just being like, I'm gonna finish this thing, whatever it is, he's up there in the top echelon of, I'm not gonna give up on this thing. And you know the theory here is like you gotta compete, you gotta learn, you gotta test, you gotta get better. You had like Tom, you had Grady Mack, you had, you know, you had all these guys in the man, like 10 seals, you had one Marine, who was the force we got? Like they were even saying in Portuguese, like, hey, we're not saying you might get your arm cut off, but you know, it could happen. There's many bones in the, you know, the hand is, it's all these bones together and there's certain little pop could be this one bone and this one, this one little, like, Dr. Luke would, you know, has over the hands, human hand, obviously, but it could be this little knuckle, it could be the finger, you get me, it could be that finger, it could be, so a little pressure could pop a finger. And he was like, you indicate, I forget your words, but you indicated that like, like, don't do that. and they go through, you know, everything from like, oh, how you spar on the ground, how you spar with takedowns, how you do, I guess we call it shootboxing, where you're like boxing gloves, but you're doing takedowns. You know, I've heard, actually, we talked about this when I was in Puerto Rico working with a couple of military guys, that a lot of guys are used to these optics, like these, you know, BealTech, whatever these things on their carbines or their pistols. Combat Osombo, in USA, illegal because this is back in Stevensville all days, they thought choke holds, you die, you know, like, you know, so in sports Osombo, I think combat Osombo is not illegal, but back then it was, you can do straight arm lock, not even, you can do Kimura Osombo. I'm full of drunk people and they're just mounted like, hey man, calm down, I'll sue you and this whole guy, you know, hey, call with the cop, you know, and the security comes and nobody gets punched. You can say give it a like, man, to the next day you're like, okay, you know, I'm back to it. And you know, I like get side control or something like half guard, I'm in half guard. The combat feedback thing, this is something like even when I was trying to move naval special warfare more towards a mixed martial arts view, and some people would be like, you think it should be jujitsu?

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocko podcast number 344 with Echo Charles and me,
[00:00:03] Jocko willing, good evening Echo.
[00:00:05] Good evening.
[00:00:06] Also joining us tonight, Dean Lister.
[00:00:08] Good evening.
[00:00:09] Good evening Dean.
[00:00:10] Dean Lister from podcast 137, if you haven't heard that,
[00:00:14] go listen to it, Dean is,
[00:00:17] is it safe to say Dean's one of the greatest grapplers
[00:00:18] of all time?
[00:00:20] I have to ask Echo Charles.
[00:00:21] Is it safe to say that?
[00:00:22] It is safe to say yes.
[00:00:24] Like Jiu Jitsu world champion, is that accurate?
[00:00:28] Yeah, Abu Dhabi was like the hardest tournament.
[00:00:31] Submission.
[00:00:32] I won it three times, two times.
[00:00:34] Super fights, absolute in my division.
[00:00:36] So I guess, I don't know, best, it's always relative.
[00:00:39] Well, we could at least at a minimum,
[00:00:41] we could say he's a good grappler.
[00:00:42] Yes sir.
[00:00:43] It's safe to say he's a good grappler.
[00:00:44] I agree with that.
[00:00:45] Definitely, a few good days, a few good days here.
[00:00:47] So good evening, Dean.
[00:00:50] You know, you fought in a bunch of stuff.
[00:00:52] Fought in a pride over in Japan, fought in UFC.
[00:00:55] And I thought it would be cool to bring you on
[00:00:57] because we got some stuff to talk about.
[00:01:01] Speaking of the UFC.
[00:01:03] So the UFC kind of changed everything for martial arts.
[00:01:10] And really, I guess you go back to like Valley Tudo
[00:01:13] in Brazil and NHB in Brazil.
[00:01:16] But that type of unrestricted fighting,
[00:01:20] advanced martial arts in a decade or two,
[00:01:25] more than it had advanced,
[00:01:30] in a very long time.
[00:01:33] But you know, I was thinking about that.
[00:01:34] I was thinking about what you just said.
[00:01:35] And I actually think that's actually not true a little bit.
[00:01:37] And here's why.
[00:01:38] I think it actually brought it back to reality.
[00:01:42] Because if you went back to ancient Greece
[00:01:45] and looked at paint creation, right,
[00:01:48] those guys and we have images of people doing paint creation.
[00:01:51] Oh, blotters.
[00:01:52] And they're doing them a plotters,
[00:01:53] they're doing cameras, they're doing,
[00:01:54] they're doing heel hooks, they're doing what we do.
[00:01:57] And paint creation, if you don't know what it is,
[00:01:59] it was in the Olympics.
[00:02:01] And I'm talking the old school Olympics.
[00:02:03] I'm talking 648 BC is when paint creation
[00:02:07] was introduced into the Olympics.
[00:02:08] And it was a combination of wrestling, boxing, kicking,
[00:02:11] joint locks, chokes.
[00:02:12] It was, in other words, an ancient version of MMA.
[00:02:16] But over time, over time, things got separated.
[00:02:21] The disciplines got separated into boxing over here,
[00:02:26] wrestling over here, Muay Thai over here,
[00:02:28] Jiu Jitsu over here, Judo over here,
[00:02:30] Taekwondo over here, karate over here.
[00:02:33] And I was trying to think about why that happened.
[00:02:36] And I actually think I have a suspicion, we'll say.
[00:02:40] A hypothesis.
[00:02:41] My hypothesis is, you know how people generally
[00:02:47] only want to do what they're good at?
[00:02:49] Like, oh, you're good at,
[00:02:51] bench press, what are we doing for a workout today?
[00:02:54] We're doing bench press.
[00:02:55] Or oh, you're good at squats, what do you wanna do?
[00:02:57] Oh, we're gonna do squats.
[00:02:59] Oh, you're good at grappling other people.
[00:03:03] So you don't want, I don't want, you know,
[00:03:05] I'm good at boxing, I don't want Dean Lister grabbing hold
[00:03:08] of me and taking me to the ground.
[00:03:09] And I don't, so I'm gonna make a different thing.
[00:03:11] Something that I'm good at.
[00:03:13] And that starts to draw in all the people
[00:03:14] that are good at that thing.
[00:03:17] Yeah.
[00:03:18] And over time, it seems like you just have these
[00:03:21] separate things.
[00:03:22] Now, whether that's the actual reason, I don't know.
[00:03:25] But everything got separated.
[00:03:30] And martial arts became siloed, right?
[00:03:34] Whereas just different sections.
[00:03:37] And then unfortunately,
[00:03:41] martial arts became theoretical.
[00:03:46] And it didn't take much time for it to go from theory
[00:03:51] to lies.
[00:03:53] And I know lies is a strong word, but if you go look at,
[00:03:59] what's the Instagram?
[00:04:01] McDogelLife.
[00:04:02] If you go look at McDogel, those are lies.
[00:04:05] That dude posts, what's his name?
[00:04:08] McDogelLife.
[00:04:09] McDogelLife.
[00:04:10] So if you go to McDogelLife, you can see people
[00:04:13] are teaching lies, actual lies to other people.
[00:04:17] And the lies are things like, oh, this one strike.
[00:04:22] Or my chi will prevent me from being taken down.
[00:04:26] Or I can absorb your strikes with my aura.
[00:04:29] Yeah.
[00:04:30] Jacques, do you think that's,
[00:04:32] you think it's a form of, I don't wanna say,
[00:04:34] hypnosis, but what is it you think?
[00:04:36] Like that kind of, is it like, oh, everyone else is doing it.
[00:04:38] So I guess I'll do it, I'll play along.
[00:04:40] Or is it, do they actually?
[00:04:41] There's absolutely some kind of psychological,
[00:04:44] there's a psychological phenomenon that occurs.
[00:04:46] Isn't he making a movie about this?
[00:04:48] Yeah.
[00:04:49] To explain it.
[00:04:50] Yeah, like a bit documentary, yeah.
[00:04:51] To explain, and I'm sure there's-
[00:04:52] I'll be in that movie.
[00:04:54] That's awesome.
[00:04:54] You in it too, Echo Charles?
[00:04:56] No.
[00:04:57] Okay.
[00:04:58] So McDogelLife is making a movie about it,
[00:05:00] but yeah, there's some kind of psychological manipulation
[00:05:04] that happens where, oh, you point your finger at my sternum
[00:05:09] and I feel like pain and fall down.
[00:05:12] And the reason we know it's a lie is
[00:05:15] cause plenty of people have challenged like,
[00:05:16] oh, try that on me.
[00:05:18] Mother liquor.
[00:05:18] Charles, what's the story about you?
[00:05:20] You were at, I don't know about the seal base,
[00:05:22] but you were there and someone was like, yeah,
[00:05:23] you know, you put your finger in the collarbone
[00:05:26] and you're like, no.
[00:05:27] And he's like, yeah, it works.
[00:05:28] And he said, try it on me.
[00:05:29] And you double-edit him or something.
[00:05:31] What was the story?
[00:05:31] No, well, I had a guy saying that,
[00:05:34] like they had a name for this like neck strike.
[00:05:37] And they were like, oh, if this is done,
[00:05:40] like if I did this for real,
[00:05:42] you'd immediately be like paralyzed
[00:05:44] on the right side of your body
[00:05:45] and that would cause you to fall down.
[00:05:47] And then that would lead to my next move,
[00:05:49] which is like, he'll stop to the collar or whatever.
[00:05:50] Right?
[00:05:51] And so I was like, cool, do it to me.
[00:05:55] He's like, no.
[00:05:55] And the guy's like, well, no, it's, you know,
[00:05:56] and I was like, do it to me, just do it.
[00:05:59] And it didn't, it didn't, obviously it didn't work.
[00:06:01] Like a karate chop to the neck.
[00:06:03] But didn't you take one, like second one?
[00:06:05] And the third one he responded, heard that you were,
[00:06:07] you know, I don't even think I retaliated.
[00:06:09] The word is that the word that was a thug.
[00:06:10] No, Jeff Higgs had a guy that said
[00:06:13] that he couldn't be taken down
[00:06:15] once he settled his chi.
[00:06:17] He could root into the ground.
[00:06:18] Yeah, he would root into the ground.
[00:06:20] And he, the guy's like,
[00:06:21] you would not be able to take me down.
[00:06:23] And Higgs is, you know, what do you mean?
[00:06:25] And Higgs, if you don't know who he is,
[00:06:26] he's been on the podcast.
[00:06:27] He's a black belt in jiu-jitsu.
[00:06:28] He's a former seal and a good friend of all of ours.
[00:06:32] But this guy was saying, oh, you can't take me down
[00:06:35] once I settle my chi.
[00:06:36] I was, I was, remember that's a good quote, right?
[00:06:39] Once I settle my chi.
[00:06:40] Cause it sounds like it might be a legitimate thing, right?
[00:06:43] Like that's like, you just didn't make that up.
[00:06:44] That's, you've told that to other people.
[00:06:47] And so Jeff's like, okay, well,
[00:06:49] why don't you go ahead and settle that chi?
[00:06:52] And the guy goes through his little ceremonial thing
[00:06:54] and like, you know, gets in the horse stance.
[00:06:58] And Higgs is like, are you ready?
[00:06:59] He's like, yeah.
[00:07:00] And Jeff just like double legs
[00:07:01] and slams it on the ground.
[00:07:02] My toes were crossed.
[00:07:04] Yeah.
[00:07:05] She wasn't settled.
[00:07:06] So there is some, when you get to that kind of
[00:07:08] McDowjo stuff, there's definitely some psychological
[00:07:11] weirdness that's going on.
[00:07:13] But those lies were spread.
[00:07:16] And you know, whether it was, you can't,
[00:07:18] you can't strike through my aura or the dimock,
[00:07:22] which is, hey, if I touch you here,
[00:07:24] you're going to literally die.
[00:07:25] It's right a few days later.
[00:07:27] Which also leads to the, hey, I can't actually do this to you
[00:07:30] because I don't want to kill you and go to jail for murder.
[00:07:33] Okay.
[00:07:34] I would do it to you because you're making me mad,
[00:07:36] but I don't want to go to jail for murder.
[00:07:37] So I'm not going to do this, you know, dimock to you.
[00:07:41] Yeah.
[00:07:41] And furthermore, you know, the reason you don't see these
[00:07:44] moves in competition because they're not allowed.
[00:07:47] Jocko, in times as a UFC fighter,
[00:07:49] if I had guys come to me and go,
[00:07:50] hey, you know, I saw your fight, you're a good fighter.
[00:07:53] You know, I'm a street fighter, Joe.
[00:07:54] You know, I'm like, okay.
[00:07:55] But they had to like qualify that for some reason to me.
[00:07:58] I'm like, well, you know, okay, that's cool.
[00:08:00] You know, it's just kind of funny that someone thinks
[00:08:03] that maybe I've never been in a real life altercation
[00:08:06] outside, you know, also like, like I've had my,
[00:08:09] that's why I look special in my face.
[00:08:11] I've been bit, I've been poked and whatever
[00:08:14] and the rest you can imagine.
[00:08:15] But it's like, yeah, those things I would call them targets
[00:08:18] of opportunity or fighting dirty,
[00:08:20] but you can't replicate the eye gouge over and over
[00:08:22] or you're going to have everyone's got one eye, you know.
[00:08:24] So, so I don't know.
[00:08:25] I just think it's funny that people think that
[00:08:28] despite all your training, if it's a street fight,
[00:08:30] like you have no chance.
[00:08:31] I don't know, man, whatever.
[00:08:33] If you could do an experiment where you took someone
[00:08:35] and just train them in Jiu Jitsu
[00:08:38] and they never got in a street fight
[00:08:41] and they went against someone that was a street fighter
[00:08:45] in the street, it's like it doesn't matter.
[00:08:49] Yeah, so the training will transfer now, look,
[00:08:54] could you pick up some bad habits
[00:08:56] where you do something in the street
[00:08:58] that now it takes you an extra two seconds to win
[00:09:01] because you should have done this specific thing
[00:09:04] because yeah, you could do that.
[00:09:05] But that's like the tiniest percentage.
[00:09:10] If there's someone that's like, that's why I don't train,
[00:09:12] you know, because I'm ready for the street.
[00:09:18] But going back to the storyline a little bit,
[00:09:20] these lies, which still exist today,
[00:09:24] in the 70s and 80s, these lies were just kind of like
[00:09:27] out of control and they definitely got picked up
[00:09:31] in the military.
[00:09:33] I was looking through some old army,
[00:09:35] I looked through an old army hand-to-hand manual from 1982.
[00:09:38] So this is like in the heyday of Chi.
[00:09:42] And it said this in this manual, no judo.
[00:09:46] You have probably already asked yourself,
[00:09:48] what about throwing and takedowns like in judo?
[00:09:51] We have purposely excluded throws and takedowns
[00:09:55] because throws and takedowns are normally only
[00:09:58] an intermediate step to taking your opponent out.
[00:10:02] After your opponent is thrown to the ground,
[00:10:04] you will probably still have to strike him to finish him.
[00:10:06] So let's just block his attack and finish him
[00:10:09] with counter strikes instead of blocking,
[00:10:11] throwing, then striking.
[00:10:14] It's like, that actually makes you think,
[00:10:18] well, you know, it's a good point.
[00:10:20] You know, that's a good point.
[00:10:21] You know, I'm not gonna, I don't wanna have to take someone
[00:10:23] down, I'll just take them out.
[00:10:26] This thing goes on to say that throwing
[00:10:28] puts you in a vulnerable position.
[00:10:29] To throw your opponent, you must first grab him.
[00:10:31] This puts you close to your opponent
[00:10:33] and vulnerable to his attack.
[00:10:34] Certain throws, yeah, certain throws.
[00:10:36] Oh, for sure.
[00:10:38] Well, theoretical, again, that's the problem
[00:10:40] with this stuff is theoretically,
[00:10:42] especially if I say, listen, Dean,
[00:10:44] if I, you know, double knuckle punch your sternum,
[00:10:48] it's gonna cause you to have a cardiac arrest.
[00:10:50] So why am I gonna bother throwing you
[00:10:52] and I can just give you a literal heart attack?
[00:10:55] And you, and if you said, well, why don't you show me that?
[00:10:58] I'd be like, cause I don't wanna kill you, bro.
[00:11:00] You just have to, but trust me.
[00:11:04] So, actually what's interesting is in that book
[00:11:08] that Fieldman, who I was looking at,
[00:11:11] you know, I'm looking at the rest of it
[00:11:12] and it has all these like, their foot patterns
[00:11:17] and it looks like these dance moves to like avoid
[00:11:20] and like strengthen your power.
[00:11:22] And it's just a bunch of nonsense,
[00:11:24] to be honest with you.
[00:11:25] But like I just said, if this stuff is getting taught
[00:11:27] by some authoritarian figure
[00:11:30] and you can't really test it in any way,
[00:11:34] and you know, this is someone that's a, you know,
[00:11:37] a 38 year old who's talking to an 18 year old recruit
[00:11:42] that kind of wants to believe, by the way.
[00:11:44] Cause most people are like,
[00:11:45] oh, you're giving me a special power,
[00:11:47] I'm gonna take it.
[00:11:48] I'm not gonna question you.
[00:11:49] And that's probably what leads to some of the
[00:11:52] weird McDow-Joe life type scenarios.
[00:11:58] So this, to me, this is like the low point
[00:12:01] of martial arts in history, in my opinion.
[00:12:04] This is the 1970s, the 1980s.
[00:12:06] And look, I get it.
[00:12:06] Some guys were doing the best they could
[00:12:08] with what was available and good on them.
[00:12:11] I know some of those guys.
[00:12:13] Remember Dr. Mick?
[00:12:14] Dr. Mick was one of those guys.
[00:12:15] And he had a whole crew of guys.
[00:12:16] Like in the 70s, they did everything they could
[00:12:18] to the extent that they could do it.
[00:12:21] And there was also some guys that were awesome back then.
[00:12:22] Judo Jean LaBelle.
[00:12:25] Like no one can question the effectiveness
[00:12:30] and the efficiency and the awesomeness
[00:12:32] of Judo Jean LaBelle, 50, 60, 70s.
[00:12:36] But as a whole, if you look at commercially,
[00:12:41] that time period was pretty rough for martial arts.
[00:12:44] And then the UFC came.
[00:12:47] And the UFC brought the truth.
[00:12:49] And with that, everything changed for the better.
[00:12:54] I'm taking notes by the way.
[00:12:55] This is good stuff.
[00:12:57] Everything changed for the better.
[00:13:00] What's your notes?
[00:13:01] Do you have any so far?
[00:13:02] Well, I wrote a few things down.
[00:13:03] I just think we'll get into this,
[00:13:05] but it's old saying and I'll butcher it probably,
[00:13:07] but oh, there we go.
[00:13:10] Something like hard work achieved without payment
[00:13:14] or without sacrifice is something you shouldn't trust.
[00:13:17] So the quick way to get this quick knockout
[00:13:20] without learning how to box,
[00:13:22] or the quick way to get the flying submission
[00:13:24] or the stimulus to go on that break
[00:13:26] without learning to grapple,
[00:13:28] it seems good, but it doesn't work.
[00:13:31] Trying to get in shape without working out.
[00:13:34] You just get implants in your biceps like you.
[00:13:37] Sure.
[00:13:38] You have bicep implants.
[00:13:39] Those arms don't work exactly.
[00:13:41] Sorry, I won't say it on the internet.
[00:13:45] That's private.
[00:13:46] But these kind of things, these shortcuts,
[00:13:49] become a millionaire tomorrow
[00:13:51] without even having a business plan.
[00:13:53] I'm saying that's an interesting idea.
[00:13:55] So it sounds good.
[00:13:56] And I think if someone trained a lot in boxing,
[00:13:58] kickboxing and wrestling,
[00:14:00] you could do that stuff
[00:14:01] if you train in all these disciplines.
[00:14:03] I think it's interesting.
[00:14:05] That is something that I think it's imperative
[00:14:07] to get into.
[00:14:09] I asked you this, Jaco.
[00:14:11] It relates to what we're talking about right now.
[00:14:13] I had a Zoom call with like 12 Marine officers.
[00:14:17] They called me, it was a colonel.
[00:14:19] They called me their, I don't know,
[00:14:21] captains and lieutenants.
[00:14:22] And they were talking about,
[00:14:23] because they had fought,
[00:14:24] I guess they saw me compete in Brazil,
[00:14:26] talking about my training patterns and whatever.
[00:14:29] And they were saying,
[00:14:30] how it can relate to the military.
[00:14:32] And I said, well,
[00:14:33] and this is something I know,
[00:14:34] it's stepping out a little out of my realm,
[00:14:36] but I mentioned something,
[00:14:38] simulation training, of course, you talk about that.
[00:14:40] And that's not combat,
[00:14:41] but that's closer to combat
[00:14:42] than bang, bang, bang, you know?
[00:14:44] And I know the argument,
[00:14:46] they don't go through walls and are as realistic,
[00:14:47] but you get a sting, you got hit.
[00:14:50] And they were like, no, there's,
[00:14:51] yeah, that's closer to a gun battle
[00:14:54] than laser tag or something like that.
[00:14:56] What's the old system that would beat?
[00:14:58] Yeah, there's an old system called Miles Gear,
[00:15:00] which is a laser tag system.
[00:15:01] And they have more advanced laser systems,
[00:15:03] which are actually really good now.
[00:15:05] And yes, that's a very,
[00:15:07] those are great training tools.
[00:15:08] And sure, are there some little things
[00:15:11] about using those systems that are not accurate?
[00:15:14] Yes, but just as you said, it's closer.
[00:15:17] So if you're getting ready for,
[00:15:18] I don't even know life in that situation,
[00:15:20] I would rather trust the person who has trained 10 years
[00:15:23] in a struggle where they've dealt with adversity,
[00:15:27] they've been in panic situations in Minkom,
[00:15:30] versus someone who, I don't know,
[00:15:33] let's say is open to more dirty things,
[00:15:35] but it's never practiced it in real life.
[00:15:37] Then again, if someone has actually been through life
[00:15:38] in that situation and used it, that's good, I guess.
[00:15:41] But I think it's important to find that training medium.
[00:15:44] So gloves, in fact, I guess I should wear my gloves
[00:15:47] when I train, but if you don't wear gloves,
[00:15:51] your hands get stronger, but you can also hurt your hands.
[00:15:55] So gloves have a place, but then again,
[00:15:57] you can't rely upon big gloves in boxing.
[00:15:58] You have no gloves and you can't cover up the same.
[00:16:02] So I think it's important to find the happy balance,
[00:16:05] that medium between hard training and realism.
[00:16:07] Yeah, and that's what the UFC did,
[00:16:11] and really Jiu Jitsu is a huge part of this,
[00:16:13] is you can train full speed, right?
[00:16:15] You can go hard, and look, you can spar in boxing,
[00:16:19] and you can, in wrestling, you're going live
[00:16:22] against other people, but when you take that
[00:16:24] and put it together into martial art,
[00:16:26] Jiu Jitsu was like bringing that forward,
[00:16:29] and boxing did it, wrestling did it,
[00:16:31] Jiu Jitsu does it, Muay Thai does it,
[00:16:33] but who didn't do it was like Dim Mock,
[00:16:36] and the old kind of weird traditional martial arts
[00:16:40] that didn't actually do anything, except for theory.
[00:16:45] So as the UFC happened, we started to see this
[00:16:50] in the military, and people in the military
[00:16:53] started learning and testing,
[00:16:54] and started to move the military combatives
[00:17:00] to a much better place.
[00:17:01] And one of the leaders in this, the guy named Matt Larson,
[00:17:03] I don't actually know him, but everybody kind of knows him.
[00:17:07] He's a former Marine, former Army Ranger,
[00:17:10] and he's, I think he's pretty much known
[00:17:13] as the father of modern army combatives.
[00:17:16] He's the one that started to train and formalize,
[00:17:20] and kind of push this well-rounded approach,
[00:17:23] realistic approach to hand-to-hand combat,
[00:17:28] and eventually his work, and look,
[00:17:31] I'm giving one person all the credit right now,
[00:17:32] I'm sure he would talk about all the people
[00:17:35] that helped him get there,
[00:17:35] but this is the person that I know of that was involved,
[00:17:39] and like I said, I'm sure there's many more people,
[00:17:41] but he certainly was a spearhead on this,
[00:17:44] and his work, and whoever he was working with at the time,
[00:17:49] eventually became an Army Field Manual,
[00:17:53] an Army Field Manual, three-tact 25.150 combatives.
[00:17:58] And I thought today maybe we could take a look at this manual,
[00:18:03] go through some of the highlights,
[00:18:04] discuss how it can be applied,
[00:18:06] and not only can it be applied to how we fight, of course,
[00:18:09] but also how we train and how we live.
[00:18:13] So there you go, let's take a look at this manual,
[00:18:16] combatives, picture of a dude with a freaking K-bar
[00:18:21] on the cover, gotta love that.
[00:18:23] Here's the overview.
[00:18:24] The overview to kick this thing off,
[00:18:27] it says combatives training stands apart
[00:18:30] from the vast majority of martial arts training
[00:18:32] in that producing the individual's actual fighting ability
[00:18:36] is of primary concern.
[00:18:39] The mental and physical benefits of training
[00:18:41] gain their worth from usefulness
[00:18:43] in producing more capable soldiers.
[00:18:45] Now, I'm not 100% sure I agree with that opening statement,
[00:18:50] only because it says, you know, combatives training,
[00:18:53] the main thing about combatives training
[00:18:57] is that you're trying to improve
[00:18:58] the fighting ability of the person.
[00:19:00] Doesn't all Jiu-Jitsu and boxing and Muay Thai
[00:19:03] trying to make you a better fighter?
[00:19:04] I must be misreading that or something,
[00:19:07] but that's what we're trying to do,
[00:19:10] is make someone a better fighter.
[00:19:14] I guess I'll go with it.
[00:19:15] Purpose, combatives, the art of hand-to-hand combat
[00:19:19] bridges the gap between physical training and tactics.
[00:19:22] The products of a good physical training plan,
[00:19:24] strength, endurance, and flexibility
[00:19:25] must be directed toward the mission,
[00:19:27] and soldiers must be prepared to use
[00:19:28] different levels of force in an environment
[00:19:30] where the intensity of a conflict changes quickly.
[00:19:33] Many military operations, such as peacekeeping missions
[00:19:36] or non-combatant evacuation,
[00:19:38] may restrict the use of lethal force.
[00:19:41] Combatives training prepares the soldier
[00:19:43] to use the appropriate amount of force for any situation.
[00:19:48] Okay, so that's always good.
[00:19:51] And you know, sometimes people ask me,
[00:19:53] have you ever used hand-to-hand?
[00:19:54] And they actually think my answer's gonna be no.
[00:19:58] And they think that most people would never use hand-to-hand,
[00:20:01] but it actually is very common to use
[00:20:05] combatives techniques in combat.
[00:20:07] Why?
[00:20:08] Because you're dealing with civilians,
[00:20:10] you're dealing with unarmed people,
[00:20:12] and you can't just run around shooting everybody
[00:20:14] in a semi-permissive environment,
[00:20:16] or even in a wartime environment,
[00:20:17] you see someone that's not armed or you enter a building,
[00:20:21] just there's a male, a female, a kid
[00:20:24] that doesn't have a weapon, you have to contend with them.
[00:20:28] So combatives are very important to have as a skill set,
[00:20:33] to handle, you know, actually when the enemy has a gun,
[00:20:36] it makes everything easier.
[00:20:38] You kill them, you shoot them, done deal, no factor.
[00:20:44] Would you write down, D?
[00:20:46] A couple of things about the origin of martial arts
[00:20:47] and how some things have shaped regionally.
[00:20:50] Like, this is a little before, but also,
[00:20:53] I was in Mitch One D, I saw someone
[00:20:56] from one military service of one country.
[00:20:59] I wanted to know, we'll get too specific,
[00:21:00] but I saw the person teaching.
[00:21:03] His knuckles right here on his hand,
[00:21:06] like he has a boxer with big gloves.
[00:21:07] If you do that with no gloves,
[00:21:08] your own hand will cut your face.
[00:21:11] Yep.
[00:21:11] So things like that, they're teaching the recruits,
[00:21:13] I'm talking to like 200 people in the class,
[00:21:15] it was one of our services, I won't say which one,
[00:21:18] and teaching people to hold it like this,
[00:21:19] I'm saying, well, even in boxing, I wouldn't do that,
[00:21:21] but with big gloves, it makes for a sense,
[00:21:23] you can see over that right there,
[00:21:24] is someone who actually has never been punched
[00:21:26] in the face without gloves on.
[00:21:29] Teaching that to 200 people at a time,
[00:21:30] I'm like, I didn't correct them.
[00:21:32] I would, but you know, he's having them like this,
[00:21:34] I'm like, you know, at least want to be here,
[00:21:35] or maybe, it's just interesting that that person
[00:21:38] teaching people how to punch with no gloves on,
[00:21:41] probably has never punched in the face.
[00:21:43] And he may be a skilled boxer.
[00:21:44] Yep, absolutely, yeah, probably.
[00:21:46] He's probably, may have been punched in the head,
[00:21:49] you know, while he had his cover up,
[00:21:51] and you can realize you can absorb,
[00:21:53] you've got their big glove versus going into your big glove,
[00:21:56] and it absorbs.
[00:21:58] You take those big gloves off,
[00:22:00] you punch right through that person's hand.
[00:22:02] So that is a little bit, we're looking at a sport boxing,
[00:22:04] which is great, I love boxing,
[00:22:05] but if you do not alter that part,
[00:22:08] by the way, not every boxer does this,
[00:22:09] I'm saying this person, some boxer's in the corner,
[00:22:11] you cover him like this, if you don't alter that rule,
[00:22:14] that would actually cause you to get a lot of damage
[00:22:16] in a fight, because this also,
[00:22:18] you don't cover much of your face with these little hands,
[00:22:20] the same, but without gloves.
[00:22:22] So that's the example, I was just trying to say how
[00:22:24] we're looking for the happy medium,
[00:22:26] because we're dealing with the military,
[00:22:27] not boxing and not wrestling.
[00:22:29] It's actually a military application.
[00:22:31] Yep.
[00:22:33] It goes on to say here,
[00:22:34] combatives training includes arduous physical training
[00:22:36] that is mentally demanding and carries over
[00:22:38] to other military pursuits.
[00:22:39] This training produces soldiers who
[00:22:42] understand controlled aggression and remain focused
[00:22:45] while under duress.
[00:22:47] That's awesome.
[00:22:48] That's true.
[00:22:48] Right, so when you get good at fighting,
[00:22:50] it's gonna help you stay calm in other situations.
[00:22:54] That's an awesome aspect of training.
[00:22:58] You process the skills requisite to the mission
[00:23:02] at levels in all the spectrum,
[00:23:04] in all the levels of spectrum of force.
[00:23:07] So you're gonna learn how to control different scenarios.
[00:23:10] Have attributes that make up the warrior ethos,
[00:23:12] personal courage, self confidence,
[00:23:14] self discipline and a spree to core.
[00:23:16] That's huge.
[00:23:18] It's so good for people to know how to fight.
[00:23:22] It's just so good for people to know how to fight.
[00:23:24] You actually, when you know how to fight,
[00:23:27] you become less arrogant.
[00:23:28] Yeah, yeah.
[00:23:29] You might be, if you're 20 years old,
[00:23:32] you might have a spike in your arrogance, right?
[00:23:34] Echo Chaw's, you're smiling at that one.
[00:23:36] Yeah, there are exceptions, we'll just say that.
[00:23:39] Yeah, where you get a little spike in your arrogance,
[00:23:41] but over time, you'll realize, okay,
[00:23:44] the reason I'm good is because I trained more
[00:23:46] and guess what, there's someone that's trained more
[00:23:48] than me and that's the way it is.
[00:23:49] So generally speaking, it'll help yourself confidence
[00:23:53] while at the same time,
[00:23:54] preventing you from becoming arrogant.
[00:23:56] Yeah, you gotta beat up so much,
[00:23:57] you have to be calm, you know.
[00:23:58] I mean, it's humbling, man.
[00:24:01] It's humbling.
[00:24:02] You remember the first time you tapped me out
[00:24:04] a hundred times in the gym when I first showed up?
[00:24:07] I was a young seal rolling in there,
[00:24:10] thinking I knew how to fight, didn't know Jack.
[00:24:14] If Jack would, when he would tap you, he would just tap.
[00:24:16] Like, don't.
[00:24:17] Like, don't.
[00:24:18] No expression on the face, just, let's train again.
[00:24:23] Yeah.
[00:24:24] Yeah.
[00:24:27] So it's humbling, especially, what were you,
[00:24:29] 17 or 18 when we started training?
[00:24:31] 19 years old.
[00:24:32] 19 years old, you were 170 pounds.
[00:24:34] Yeah.
[00:24:34] And I was like 220.
[00:24:36] I was a grown man, you were a kid.
[00:24:38] And I'm like, this poor guy, I'm gonna smash his little head.
[00:24:44] Yeah.
[00:24:47] Throughout modern history,
[00:24:48] attempts to build successful combative systems have failed
[00:24:51] or have been met with limited success.
[00:24:53] This has happened for several reasons.
[00:24:54] Quite naturally, commanders desire a system
[00:24:56] that doesn't require any training time to learn and maintain.
[00:24:59] So that's a real problem out of the gate.
[00:25:01] People think, well, you know, I saw a thing
[00:25:04] where you can just learn four deadly moves
[00:25:06] and you're gonna be good to go.
[00:25:07] Why don't we just use that, bro?
[00:25:07] That's what I'm talking about, exactly.
[00:25:09] Four deadly moves to end any street fight.
[00:25:12] The commander's like, hey, I think what you just learned,
[00:25:13] I saw those four deadly moves,
[00:25:15] why don't we just focus on those?
[00:25:16] That way you're gonna have to spend a bunch of time.
[00:25:18] He's a guy, he actually has, it's like a,
[00:25:20] it's tagged in like YouTube,
[00:25:22] so it's like X Army Ranger,
[00:25:25] plus 10 years of bouncing experience,
[00:25:27] is one over 500 bar fights,
[00:25:29] never been hit in the face once by a system.
[00:25:32] I'm just like, I'm not gonna check it out,
[00:25:34] just win every fight in three, four seconds, just whatever.
[00:25:37] Now there's ways to surprise people,
[00:25:38] there's ways to look over there
[00:25:40] and hit someone, there's ways to have your friend.
[00:25:41] I mean, there's all kinds of tricks,
[00:25:43] to trick, you can trick someone out in public,
[00:25:45] but I don't know, just funny how this get strong,
[00:25:50] quick, with no sacrifice game,
[00:25:52] or get rich quick, that's what I was saying earlier.
[00:25:54] I don't know, it's kind of like, not the future.
[00:25:57] Yep.
[00:25:58] Yep, it's gonna take some time.
[00:26:01] Continuing on, further training has often been conducted
[00:26:03] by experts in civilian martial arts.
[00:26:05] These experts use training methodologies
[00:26:07] that are designed for more civilian hobbyists
[00:26:09] than in realities of war.
[00:26:10] That's exactly what you were just talking about
[00:26:11] with the boxing gloves, right?
[00:26:13] Oh, I'm a great boxer, I'll teach you how to box, cool.
[00:26:15] But I'm not wearing gloves, now I'm breaking my hand,
[00:26:16] now I'm getting punched in the face
[00:26:17] when I thought I was covered up,
[00:26:18] it's like, there's the issues.
[00:26:22] Often, combatives training has been approached
[00:26:25] by allowing a soldier versed in a civilian martial art
[00:26:27] to use a limited amount of training time,
[00:26:30] usually during another course,
[00:26:32] to teach a useful technique.
[00:26:33] Blinded by their civilian training,
[00:26:35] the trainer demonstrates what the trainer thinks
[00:26:37] are simple, effective, and easy to learn techniques,
[00:26:39] selected based on situations soldiers may find themselves
[00:26:42] or in a tactical niche of the specialist training.
[00:26:45] The trainer teaches the soldiers these techniques,
[00:26:47] but due to the limited amount of training time,
[00:26:49] the soldier quickly forgets them.
[00:26:50] The soldiers quickly forget them.
[00:26:52] To overcome these tendencies,
[00:26:53] a combatives training system must be based
[00:26:55] on certain principles and then maintained.
[00:26:57] So, this was another thing I ran into that in the SEAL teams,
[00:26:59] like for a while, the SEAL teams was using this system
[00:27:01] where one of the best benefits of the system
[00:27:07] claimed by the people that were pushing the system was,
[00:27:09] hey, this system that we're being taught
[00:27:12] only takes five days to learn.
[00:27:14] Yeah.
[00:27:14] So, and meanwhile, some people are talking about
[00:27:17] becoming, using more mixed martial arts based systems
[00:27:21] when those things take years to become an expert.
[00:27:24] Why would we do that?
[00:27:26] It's sort of like seven minute abs, right?
[00:27:28] It's like, this is it.
[00:27:29] You're like, dude, I'm not,
[00:27:30] why do all this cardio weightlifting and diet
[00:27:33] and all this stuff?
[00:27:34] I can just do seven minute abs
[00:27:35] and I'll be good to go with the abs.
[00:27:37] Six minute abs.
[00:27:38] Six minute abs.
[00:27:39] I'll sell you.
[00:27:40] Oh yeah, you outsold me.
[00:27:41] So, don't fall for that, that idea that,
[00:27:47] oh, the reason you should use my system
[00:27:49] is because it's faster.
[00:27:51] It's not a good, it's not real.
[00:27:54] Cause you're not gonna become a good fighter in five days.
[00:27:58] Could you learn a couple fundamental moves in five days?
[00:28:01] Yes, you absolutely could.
[00:28:02] You absolutely can and they could save your life.
[00:28:04] Yeah.
[00:28:05] You know, you could, you could,
[00:28:06] your life could be saved by knowing some fundamental moves
[00:28:10] that you learn in a five day period.
[00:28:15] But are you gonna be well versed?
[00:28:16] No.
[00:28:17] Are you gonna forget those moves?
[00:28:19] Yes.
[00:28:20] Are you gonna know how to react
[00:28:21] when there's a variable involved?
[00:28:22] No.
[00:28:23] So, there is no easy, quick solution to be good at fighting.
[00:28:29] It doesn't exist.
[00:28:30] Could you learn, you know, three dynamic moves
[00:28:35] that if you're a bouncer in a bar
[00:28:36] and you're going against some drunk guy
[00:28:38] that doesn't expect it and you do these moves,
[00:28:39] that'll probably work a lot.
[00:28:41] What happens when that dude drops in
[00:28:43] and does a double leg on you, you know?
[00:28:45] Or squares up and is like a skilled fighter.
[00:28:49] It's gonna be a problem.
[00:28:51] So, here's the principles that they recommend.
[00:28:54] Systematic training, foundation, continuous training,
[00:28:57] competition drills, live training,
[00:28:59] integrated training, combat feedback.
[00:29:01] Cool.
[00:29:02] What'd you write, Dave?
[00:29:03] No, I was gonna say like a kind of funny story.
[00:29:06] Like we're talking about weight loss.
[00:29:07] But so, you know, let's say when I go through
[00:29:09] my weight cutting phase, you know,
[00:29:11] I'll lose like 15 pounds in 10 days.
[00:29:14] And then I'll cut water weight, which is really unhealthy,
[00:29:16] but it's really, really bad for you to do that.
[00:29:18] But, you know, cut 33 pounds in 12 days,
[00:29:22] whatever you were there with me on that.
[00:29:24] But so, how do you lose that much weight in two weeks?
[00:29:27] I'm like, well, it's not sustainable, you know?
[00:29:28] I'd be honest, it's not the secret.
[00:29:30] You could do that, but it's a miserable life.
[00:29:31] It's hard to do and you can't do it forever.
[00:29:34] And remember when we were in Sarge,
[00:29:35] when he tried to cut 50 pounds in a week?
[00:29:38] And he had the look of death in his eye.
[00:29:42] So, Sarge lost like 25 pounds, right?
[00:29:45] Because Sarge, my Sarge is a good friend of ours, an ex-seal,
[00:29:49] but he actually, I think he was trying to lose 40 pounds
[00:29:51] or something like that.
[00:29:52] Yeah, he went and look, Sarge is about as hard as they come.
[00:29:55] As far as like just being like,
[00:29:57] I'm gonna finish this thing, whatever it is,
[00:30:00] he's up there in the top echelon of,
[00:30:03] I'm not gonna give up on this thing.
[00:30:05] And it was almost walking dead, almost walking dead.
[00:30:07] I mean, and I remember I showed up at the gym
[00:30:12] and I saw him and he'd already, he was like.
[00:30:14] He was done.
[00:30:16] He was like, yeah, I was cutting.
[00:30:18] And he goes, he looked at me and with that dead serious look,
[00:30:21] he was like, I was gonna die soon.
[00:30:23] That was his assessment.
[00:30:26] He was like, yeah, he goes, I got down.
[00:30:28] I got 38 pounds and whatever.
[00:30:30] And he goes, and then I got to a point
[00:30:32] where I was gonna die soon.
[00:30:34] And he's a Corman, he's a medic.
[00:30:35] He's an independent duty Corman,
[00:30:38] which is like the highest level of,
[00:30:40] and you know, a special operation Corman.
[00:30:41] He needs little surgeries.
[00:30:42] So he's just like, yeah, I was gonna die soon.
[00:30:44] That was his assessment.
[00:30:45] So I was trying to tell you a story about one of our bros,
[00:30:47] but it's just funny, it's funny in a sadistic way,
[00:30:49] but even Sarge would laugh at it too.
[00:30:51] He has a good sense of humor, our type of humor.
[00:30:54] But so there is a way to lose weight that fast,
[00:30:56] but it's not sustainable, it's not healthy.
[00:30:58] Plus you have to know what you're doing
[00:30:59] and then you have no one to do it correctly.
[00:31:01] And then you cause again trouble.
[00:31:02] So weight loss, how about quick way to lose weight?
[00:31:04] Yeah, see it's possible, but it sucks.
[00:31:06] It's miserable, it's not sustainable.
[00:31:07] But you can actually get on a sensible diet,
[00:31:09] get into a consistent workout routine.
[00:31:11] And you know what?
[00:31:11] You could lose, let's say two pounds a week.
[00:31:13] You could do that consistently, you know, you can.
[00:31:16] And actually have energy, you can be fine.
[00:31:17] You'll be hungry, but you'll be fine.
[00:31:20] But it takes discipline, right?
[00:31:21] Discipline, so I'm talking to this, learn it.
[00:31:25] I see what they're saying, it sounds marketable,
[00:31:27] but as I was mentioning earlier,
[00:31:30] the quick fix way to get around things in training
[00:31:32] is usually not the best way.
[00:31:33] You're gonna have to put in the time, people.
[00:31:35] Yeah.
[00:31:37] And this is exactly what they say here.
[00:31:39] This next section is called systematic training.
[00:31:41] Learning to fight is a process, not an event.
[00:31:44] To be effective, combatives training
[00:31:45] must be part of a system.
[00:31:47] Until soldiers learn techniques
[00:31:49] that form the system's foundation,
[00:31:51] they are unprepared for follow on training.
[00:31:53] Short cuts or teaching soldiers,
[00:31:55] what they need to know is counterproductive.
[00:31:58] Much as advanced tactical training is counterproductive,
[00:32:02] if a soldier has not first been taught
[00:32:03] how to operate his weapon.
[00:32:04] Army combatives training must be based in a system
[00:32:08] that both lays a foundation of abilities
[00:32:10] that soldiers take with them wherever they are assigned
[00:32:12] and is flexible enough to fit
[00:32:13] the wide range of specialized missions soldiers are asked to do.
[00:32:17] So it's the same thing that we're talking about.
[00:32:19] Continuous training.
[00:32:21] Combatives training must not end
[00:32:23] upon graduation from a training course.
[00:32:27] And this is, by the way,
[00:32:28] everything we're saying applies to police officers as well.
[00:32:29] Yeah.
[00:32:31] Unfortunately, a lot of cops,
[00:32:32] they don't have any more training after they got out
[00:32:34] of the academy. No, it's horrible.
[00:32:35] Or they get three hours a year or four hours a year.
[00:32:38] Yeah.
[00:32:40] So training has to be continuous.
[00:32:42] It can't end when you graduate.
[00:32:44] For soldiers to develop their abilities,
[00:32:45] the majority of training must happen
[00:32:47] outside of the institutional training environment.
[00:32:48] So think about that.
[00:32:49] The majority of training has to be outside
[00:32:52] what you learn in the schoolhouse.
[00:32:56] Units must develop their own combatives programs
[00:32:58] to spur troops to involvement and courage commanders
[00:33:00] to invest resources.
[00:33:02] So there you go.
[00:33:02] Competition.
[00:33:04] Competition is the principal motivational tool
[00:33:06] used to spur combatives training.
[00:33:09] Competition should be not only used to encourage excellence
[00:33:12] by giving soldiers a chance to be unit champions,
[00:33:15] but also to make fighting ability
[00:33:17] an integral part of soldiering.
[00:33:20] So if you're not running some competitions,
[00:33:22] you're not gonna get people to train.
[00:33:24] And look, can you get someone that's like,
[00:33:25] hey, I'm just dedicated, no one might need it on the job?
[00:33:27] Sure.
[00:33:28] But how many of those 20-year-olds that we're talking about
[00:33:31] is gonna be like, dude, are you gonna do the brigade competition?
[00:33:35] See who's got it?
[00:33:36] Got it?
[00:33:37] See where you're at?
[00:33:39] And by the way, what about you're doing
[00:33:41] the brigade composition.
[00:33:42] So you might wanna like train,
[00:33:44] so you're at least ready for yourself,
[00:33:45] look like a jag-ass.
[00:33:49] Talks about drills.
[00:33:51] You know, you gotta do drills.
[00:33:52] Live training, live training involves training
[00:33:54] against a fully resistant training partner,
[00:33:57] which approaches the reality of combat.
[00:33:59] That's what you were talking about earlier, Dean.
[00:34:01] There are many methods of live training.
[00:34:02] Each has its own strength and weaknesses.
[00:34:04] Therefore, leadership combines several approaches
[00:34:05] to ensure proper training.
[00:34:07] Integrated training.
[00:34:09] Combative engagements do not happen in a vacuum.
[00:34:11] They happen as part of a mission.
[00:34:12] So give soldiers the tools
[00:34:15] they need to successfully complete their missions.
[00:34:17] Combatives must be an integral part of the training.
[00:34:19] So that means you can't just make it an isolated, okay.
[00:34:24] Like, you know what a red man suit is?
[00:34:26] Red man suit is like the guy you can punch
[00:34:28] because they're wearing like a big padded outfit.
[00:34:30] Yeah, yeah.
[00:34:31] Well, you need to integrate that
[00:34:32] into a random part of a regular mission,
[00:34:34] a regular training mission.
[00:34:36] You can't say, oh, today we're doing combatives only.
[00:34:38] No, you need to walk into a room
[00:34:39] and there's gotta be some person in a red man suit
[00:34:41] just ready to throw down.
[00:34:43] And you gotta deal with it.
[00:34:44] And you gotta see how it affects everyone else in the room
[00:34:46] and how many people it takes
[00:34:47] and how it slows down the assault force
[00:34:49] and all that stuff.
[00:34:51] That's integrated training.
[00:34:54] Combat, what'd you write down, Dean?
[00:34:56] Just different things.
[00:34:57] I was just, I had random stories.
[00:35:01] I was gonna say, remember this,
[00:35:02] even people listen to this, you know, yeah, yeah,
[00:35:04] but the pretty lie is more appealing than the ugly truth.
[00:35:08] You know, so the ugly truth is,
[00:35:09] it's not really ugly if you get into it,
[00:35:11] you get into the sport, it's not so ugly.
[00:35:12] Or maybe that is the beauty of it in a way.
[00:35:15] But the pretty lie is always still appealing.
[00:35:18] I have a 40 course for you, you know,
[00:35:21] you're guaranteed to win every fight.
[00:35:22] That's still appealing to most people.
[00:35:24] Still is, even though we're seeing this.
[00:35:26] And I just hope that people listening to this,
[00:35:29] it's not, well, it is, it can be torturous,
[00:35:33] but it's something that lights a fire in your ass.
[00:35:35] But every day, as far as you wanna train more,
[00:35:37] I can get sick of Jiu-Jitsu for one day,
[00:35:39] and the next day I'm fine.
[00:35:40] I'm back into it for some reason.
[00:35:41] You can say give it a like, man,
[00:35:42] to the next day you're like, okay, you know, I'm back to it.
[00:35:45] You can definitely have a rough day on the box.
[00:35:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true.
[00:35:48] It's just that we talk about work,
[00:35:51] repetition, drills, competition, all this stuff.
[00:35:53] It seems like a lot to do, it is a lot to do.
[00:35:55] But I mean, this is the ugly truth, you know what I'm saying?
[00:35:58] So that's just what I was writing down,
[00:36:00] just that the pretty lie is still appealing to people
[00:36:02] that are listening to this right now.
[00:36:03] The pretty lie is still out there,
[00:36:05] it's still, we saw that people are gonna be tempted by it.
[00:36:07] Yeah, still.
[00:36:07] And the pretty lie you want, you want it to be true.
[00:36:10] Because it's easier.
[00:36:11] It's true.
[00:36:12] You want it to be true.
[00:36:13] That's how Get Rich Quick schemes work, right?
[00:36:16] People want to believe that a mere $1,299 investment now
[00:36:22] when you learn these skills.
[00:36:24] That's true.
[00:36:25] Choco, I wanted to believe that you could lose
[00:36:28] 18 pounds of water by being in an Epsom salt tub
[00:36:32] in half hour.
[00:36:33] I wanted to believe that.
[00:36:34] It was not true.
[00:36:35] No, quarter pound.
[00:36:37] Have you ever missed weight?
[00:36:38] No, no, I was made weight.
[00:36:39] Yeah.
[00:36:40] Yeah, I was made weight.
[00:36:41] Man, you suffered a few times.
[00:36:43] Yeah, I have big bones, I don't know.
[00:36:45] It's not fun.
[00:36:46] Big bones and pizza, bro.
[00:36:48] Pizza.
[00:36:49] You could do it a couple times.
[00:36:52] It was like, all right, let's check your weight.
[00:36:55] Oh, you're 28 pounds over
[00:36:58] and you gotta fight in six days.
[00:37:01] You gotta get pizza for it.
[00:37:02] How's that pizza tasting?
[00:37:03] I hope it was good.
[00:37:06] Now you gotta pay.
[00:37:09] Combat feedback, when soldiers engaged
[00:37:11] or engaged in hand to hand combat,
[00:37:12] they acquire new information about combatants.
[00:37:14] These lessons must be captured and analyzed
[00:37:16] so the combatants program evolves
[00:37:19] to fit the needs of soldiers.
[00:37:21] Through combat feedback,
[00:37:23] the following lessons have been learned
[00:37:24] and it goes through every fight is a grappling fight.
[00:37:27] Of course, this does not mean that there is no striking.
[00:37:29] Every fight also involves striking,
[00:37:31] but always as an integral part of grappling.
[00:37:35] Every fight is over weapons.
[00:37:37] Control of this element
[00:37:38] will most likely determine the outcome of the fight.
[00:37:41] There's no shortcut to developing a fighting skill.
[00:37:43] The combat feedback thing,
[00:37:44] this is something like even when I was trying
[00:37:48] to move naval special warfare
[00:37:51] more towards a mixed martial arts view,
[00:37:57] and some people would be like,
[00:37:59] you think it should be jujitsu?
[00:38:01] And I'd be like, no, actually,
[00:38:01] I don't just think it should be jujitsu at all.
[00:38:05] And in fact, and this was the most important thing
[00:38:06] I tried to say was it shouldn't be closed.
[00:38:09] It shouldn't be a closed,
[00:38:10] it shouldn't even be a quote system.
[00:38:13] It should be an open learning, continuous learning,
[00:38:19] evolving thing that we're always getting better at.
[00:38:22] And that way there's things that work and they work now
[00:38:24] and maybe if in the future
[00:38:25] we have a different type of body armor
[00:38:27] that is more dynamic or it takes up more space
[00:38:30] or it's heavier or lighter or whatever,
[00:38:31] like things are gonna change.
[00:38:33] Or the way you're slinging your weapon now
[00:38:35] or a different radio you gotta carry with that
[00:38:37] causes something or a helmet.
[00:38:38] Like there's all kinds of things
[00:38:39] you gotta make adjustments to.
[00:38:40] You grapple with plates on the body armor plates.
[00:38:43] Cause the plates get really,
[00:38:44] they get really in the way, let's say.
[00:38:46] Yeah.
[00:38:47] And there's certain things that,
[00:38:49] yeah, there's certain things
[00:38:50] that might not be optimum with plates.
[00:38:53] And so, okay, well, what adjustments are you gonna make?
[00:38:55] And maybe a new set of body armor comes out,
[00:38:57] like you could put something called side zappy plates in
[00:39:00] which now you have plates on your side.
[00:39:01] And how does that inhibit your movement?
[00:39:03] You're gonna find this ridiculous jockel
[00:39:04] playing with the front plate and the back plate
[00:39:07] and that's a belt on with, you know, whatever.
[00:39:10] I don't say just stuff on the belt.
[00:39:12] And I set up and guard and I had a little,
[00:39:16] I was a little heavier back then
[00:39:18] and the front plate pinched my, with the belt.
[00:39:21] And you tapped out.
[00:39:21] Come on, I can't set up a guard to say, wait, wait.
[00:39:27] Yeah, body armor is just a different thing.
[00:39:29] So there's, we gotta watch out for that belly fat.
[00:39:31] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:39:31] Well, you guys, there's a weight.
[00:39:32] No, there's no problem.
[00:39:33] We gotta stay lean.
[00:39:35] So that's, that's good.
[00:39:36] It's ridiculous.
[00:39:38] The idea that whatever you're training in should evolve.
[00:39:42] And look, it's beautiful to see right now
[00:39:44] Jujitsu evolving like crazy.
[00:39:46] And it's kind of evolving exponentially.
[00:39:49] I think Jujitsu is evolving exponentially now
[00:39:52] cause every one move leads, let's just say theoretically
[00:39:55] every one move leads to two moves.
[00:39:58] Would you say that's something you could say, could claim?
[00:40:00] It should, it should, yeah.
[00:40:01] Maybe even one move.
[00:40:02] It could be that one move leads to four moves
[00:40:05] and some one moves lead to seven moves.
[00:40:07] But let's just say in general, conservatively,
[00:40:10] every one move leads to two moves.
[00:40:12] Sure.
[00:40:13] So there's been so many new moves created
[00:40:15] in the last 10 years that, and they've all created
[00:40:18] and spawned more moves and more moves and more moves.
[00:40:20] So it's a highly evolving sport.
[00:40:25] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:40:27] And some things that some things have been forgotten
[00:40:29] or re-invented again for sure.
[00:40:32] Someone's done a lot of things before.
[00:40:34] Some things have been forgotten.
[00:40:35] Some things are out of style,
[00:40:35] but some things are definitely being invented right now.
[00:40:40] All right.
[00:40:41] Then this is a really thorough manual.
[00:40:43] And this is what the army does, man.
[00:40:44] The army doesn't play around.
[00:40:45] They leave no room for interpretation on stuff.
[00:40:48] They got things on safety.
[00:40:49] They got the things on risk assessments
[00:40:52] on how you're gonna keep everybody safe
[00:40:53] while you're doing it.
[00:40:54] One thing they say is combatives training
[00:40:57] has inherent risks.
[00:40:57] These risks may not be readily apparent
[00:41:00] and are sometimes counterintuitive to the untrained person.
[00:41:02] Therefore, a combatives instructor certified
[00:41:04] at the appropriate level should be involved
[00:41:06] in the process to mitigate these risks.
[00:41:09] And it's also important as a trainer
[00:41:13] to be able to point out the risks of not training.
[00:41:15] Like if you don't train,
[00:41:16] because listen, if you train, you can sprain your ankle.
[00:41:19] If you train, you can hurt your shoulder.
[00:41:21] But if you don't train, what's the risk there?
[00:41:24] The risk is you can...
[00:41:25] Worst.
[00:41:25] Yeah, it's gonna end up being worse.
[00:41:28] So they go through how to set up a training area,
[00:41:33] what's general safety precautions to make.
[00:41:36] And then they got this thing.
[00:41:38] This is interesting.
[00:41:39] According to a report published
[00:41:41] by the Armed Forces Health Surveillance Center,
[00:41:44] 730 individuals who served in an active or reserve component
[00:41:48] in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps
[00:41:50] were hospitalized or medically evacuated
[00:41:53] for injuries incurred while performing wrestling, judo,
[00:41:58] and unarmed combat training between January 2002
[00:42:01] and December 2009.
[00:42:04] This averages to roughly 100 personnel per year
[00:42:07] during an eight year period.
[00:42:10] Now, quite frankly, that's not that bad, I don't think.
[00:42:12] I think that's actually pretty darn good to go,
[00:42:14] considering how many people are actually training.
[00:42:17] It says it should be noted that 194 personnel,
[00:42:20] 40% of those hospitalized and 26.6% of all injuries
[00:42:24] were injured while off duty or have unknown duty status.
[00:42:29] Unsupervised execution of combatives techniques
[00:42:32] is strongly discouraged.
[00:42:33] This also means some of that percentage is I got a bar fight.
[00:42:36] And I went to my gunny sergeant and said,
[00:42:39] hey, gunny, I was training combatives
[00:42:42] and I broke my hand on my training partner's face.
[00:42:46] Well, how's your body?
[00:42:47] Oh, he's okay, but I need to get my cast.
[00:42:51] So there's some of that going on.
[00:42:55] Areas of the body most commonly injured
[00:42:58] of the injuries documented in the study,
[00:42:59] a large percentage of 45.6% occurred
[00:43:02] in the lower extremities.
[00:43:04] In fact, fractures primarily of the ankle, tibia, or fibula,
[00:43:08] accounted for nearly one half of the injuries.
[00:43:13] That's the thing to hide in me.
[00:43:14] And you know what it shows you?
[00:43:15] They're doing a lot of takedowns.
[00:43:17] They're doing a lot of takedowns.
[00:43:18] But isn't it weird also fractures?
[00:43:21] They're talking about fractures.
[00:43:24] And so fractures percentage was 50%.
[00:43:29] Sprains and strains was only 13%.
[00:43:31] And what I thought to myself is that's
[00:43:32] because you know what, you don't have to go to the hospital
[00:43:34] for a sprain or a strain, so you're not reporting it.
[00:43:36] I mean, how many times have you hurt your ankle
[00:43:41] or your knee training?
[00:43:43] A few times, kickboxing a few times.
[00:43:45] And not going to the hospital.
[00:43:48] Many times.
[00:43:49] I mean, it's like ridiculous, right?
[00:43:51] How many times did I go home?
[00:43:51] Like, I've kind of limping a little bit.
[00:43:53] You know, my shoulders tweaked.
[00:43:55] My elbow got straightened out, the enlistor, whatever.
[00:43:59] So I think a lot of the strain,
[00:44:01] I think sprains and strains is actually,
[00:44:03] you're gonna get them.
[00:44:04] It's like almost 100%.
[00:44:05] Yeah.
[00:44:06] But people just kind of like,
[00:44:07] oh, just put ice on it and call it good.
[00:44:09] Well, you think maybe that these lower extremities,
[00:44:12] injuries is from like kicking?
[00:44:15] Well, I don't know.
[00:44:16] My goodness.
[00:44:17] I think it's takedowns.
[00:44:19] Takedowns, yeah.
[00:44:19] Straight up fractures, I mean, I guess.
[00:44:22] Also, you know how maybe they'll turn the wrong way?
[00:44:24] You know, a good rest of the face with hips.
[00:44:25] You know, I'm just saying, like when someone's learning,
[00:44:27] you're going through those rough areas
[00:44:29] where more likely to get hurt, you know?
[00:44:31] Yeah, actually, if you think about
[00:44:33] how many broken bones have you seen
[00:44:37] on the mats during training?
[00:44:39] Not many.
[00:44:40] Yeah, no, it's usually the ankle.
[00:44:41] I think I've seen two.
[00:44:43] I think I've seen two.
[00:44:44] One like ankle and one shoulder.
[00:44:49] Radial.
[00:44:50] Yeah, I got caught in, my buddy got caught in.
[00:44:52] Bicep slicer.
[00:44:53] Bicep slicer.
[00:44:54] And I heard it crack.
[00:44:56] Spiral fracture.
[00:44:58] And he was in the,
[00:44:59] it's still going on deployment.
[00:45:01] Damn.
[00:45:02] But yeah, that's why it's weird.
[00:45:04] But how many people,
[00:45:05] how many times have you seen someone get a sprained ankle,
[00:45:08] a sprained knee?
[00:45:08] It's like, you can't count them all.
[00:45:10] So this is a weird thing.
[00:45:12] This is a weird thing.
[00:45:14] And then it goes on to dislocations
[00:45:16] and skull or bone fractures
[00:45:19] and other intercranial injuries,
[00:45:21] other injuries, concussions.
[00:45:23] Concussions, they've only got a 3%.
[00:45:25] Choco, I think people get hurt on the obstacle course.
[00:45:28] You know what I'm saying?
[00:45:29] On the obstacle course, probably not a ton,
[00:45:32] but how many people get hurt
[00:45:33] going through land warfare training out in the desert?
[00:45:36] Oh, you know.
[00:45:36] In every,
[00:45:37] Any kind of training.
[00:45:38] Yeah, people are gonna get hurt.
[00:45:39] Like what in land warfare training?
[00:45:40] Like what ankle?
[00:45:41] Twisted ankle.
[00:45:42] Running.
[00:45:43] Hurt me.
[00:45:44] You're usually an ankle and you're a back, right?
[00:45:47] Oh, for.
[00:45:47] Picking up my buddy.
[00:45:48] Oh, yeah.
[00:45:49] Kind of especially when some people are running
[00:45:50] in land warfare.
[00:45:52] And there was a lot of buddy caring to be done.
[00:45:53] Sorry, fellas.
[00:45:55] Just trying to be ready for war.
[00:45:56] But,
[00:45:57] Yeah, people are gonna get injured.
[00:46:00] Here's another one like fast roping or parachuting.
[00:46:02] Like people break their ankle, people land wrong,
[00:46:04] people get hurt.
[00:46:05] So yeah, you're doing high risk training.
[00:46:07] People are gonna get hurt.
[00:46:09] Traumatic brain injury.
[00:46:12] The Armed Forces Health Surveillance Center study
[00:46:14] concluded that a relatively small percentage
[00:46:16] of 15.5% of combatives related injuries occur
[00:46:20] in the head, back, neck and nervous system.
[00:46:23] Dude, I don't think 15% is a small number.
[00:46:26] I don't like that number.
[00:46:27] However, these injuries can have disastrous consequences,
[00:46:30] which can include traumatic brain injuries.
[00:46:32] That's why you gotta spar.
[00:46:32] You can't spar every day.
[00:46:34] It'll be boxing every day.
[00:46:36] Oh, yeah.
[00:46:37] And for sure.
[00:46:38] That's something that we've learned
[00:46:39] and you and I had did not learn until it was too late
[00:46:42] because we already probably sparred hundreds of rounds
[00:46:45] back in the day live with MMA gloves, by the way,
[00:46:49] which is not smart.
[00:46:52] You can see better, you know?
[00:46:54] I mean, yeah.
[00:46:56] I mean, that's kind of disturbing.
[00:46:59] You know, when you think about all the rounds you did
[00:47:03] back in the day while training for camp,
[00:47:07] it is a lot of you getting punched in the head.
[00:47:09] Do you spar with MMA gloves just striking
[00:47:12] or is it a full?
[00:47:14] Both, usually take downs.
[00:47:15] But you know, you put Vaseline on or you put a,
[00:47:19] wear a headgear and small gloves
[00:47:21] or big gloves and no headgear.
[00:47:23] Yeah, depends.
[00:47:24] But that's, you know, we kind of evolved.
[00:47:27] And now it's evolved like God's spar a lot less.
[00:47:30] A lot less.
[00:47:32] Wasn't back when you were going through seal training,
[00:47:35] they put the boats on your head and jump on the boats.
[00:47:37] So like that.
[00:47:38] But now they don't do that.
[00:47:39] They don't do that anymore.
[00:47:40] Yeah, but see, you learn from the past
[00:47:41] because everyone has bad necks, jigs, you, pause, everyone.
[00:47:45] Sarge.
[00:47:46] Yeah, that wasn't healthy.
[00:47:48] Yeah, that was not healthy.
[00:47:49] You got a boat on your head
[00:47:50] and the freaking 220 pound instructor jumps into the boat.
[00:47:54] They put sand in it.
[00:47:55] And it's not like that moment of impact.
[00:47:58] The weight is distributed evenly amongst the six
[00:48:02] or seven heads in there.
[00:48:03] No, he lands wherever he lands.
[00:48:06] And it takes at least, you know, yeah, that was not good.
[00:48:10] And it feels like there's no real benefit
[00:48:12] in that kind of quote unquote training.
[00:48:14] Yeah, there is no benefit.
[00:48:16] It's only a negative.
[00:48:17] It's kind of like getting punched in the head.
[00:48:18] Yeah, yeah.
[00:48:19] Very.
[00:48:20] Now listen, you have to get punched a little bit.
[00:48:22] Yeah.
[00:48:22] So that you are used to it and you're not scared of it,
[00:48:24] but you don't get better at getting punched in the head.
[00:48:27] That's why we don't line people on walls
[00:48:28] and just start going ham on their face.
[00:48:30] You know those videos where guys line up on the wall
[00:48:32] and start just punching.
[00:48:33] Yeah.
[00:48:33] That's just freaking.
[00:48:35] Different tactics.
[00:48:36] That's not just different tactics.
[00:48:37] That's like freaking jerks.
[00:48:45] Traumatic brain injury occurs
[00:48:46] when a sudden trauma or a head injury
[00:48:48] disrupts the function of the brain,
[00:48:50] initiating the onset or worsening of the following symptoms,
[00:48:53] loss of or decreased level of consciousness,
[00:48:55] loss of memory for events immediately after altercation,
[00:48:59] alteration in mental state,
[00:49:01] confusion, disorientation,
[00:49:03] neurological deficits, weakness,
[00:49:06] loss of balance, change in vision.
[00:49:09] So you get a lot of these things
[00:49:12] if you're sparring all the time and you shouldn't.
[00:49:16] So don't.
[00:49:21] And it goes on to some more of this danger.
[00:49:25] Should a soldier exhibit any of the symptoms
[00:49:27] of traumatic brain injury?
[00:49:28] Soldiers should ask,
[00:49:29] should seek immediate emergency evaluation.
[00:49:31] This is how, I mean,
[00:49:32] remember when I got a really bad concussion from you?
[00:49:35] That's it.
[00:49:36] You felt like three or four.
[00:49:37] Yeah, but there was the worst one
[00:49:38] where I went actually had to go to the hospital.
[00:49:40] Yeah, I do call that, yeah.
[00:49:41] And I remember the doctor said,
[00:49:44] hey, you know, no contact for,
[00:49:47] I think she said six months.
[00:49:49] What happened?
[00:49:50] Which one was that?
[00:49:51] Did you hit on my knee or something?
[00:49:52] No.
[00:49:54] Oh, I shot.
[00:49:55] Yeah, it was a head.
[00:49:57] It was your head hitting my head.
[00:49:58] You sprawled and my head hit your chin.
[00:50:00] Yeah, okay.
[00:50:01] Yeah, and it didn't knock me out, knock me down.
[00:50:04] And then I was, remember I was looking up at the roof.
[00:50:06] Like I saw that the, the, the, the, I was like,
[00:50:09] why is Dean rotating me right now?
[00:50:11] Cause I feel like it.
[00:50:12] That's why.
[00:50:13] I was Dean cause he was across side and like,
[00:50:15] I'm looking up at the rafters and city boxing.
[00:50:16] Remember the city boxing had those big rafters
[00:50:18] and I'm looking at them and they're turning.
[00:50:19] And I'm like, I'm trying to put my feet to stop you
[00:50:22] from turning me, but it wasn't turning.
[00:50:24] I was turning you by the way.
[00:50:25] Yeah, no, you weren't.
[00:50:27] And then I woke up in the middle of the night,
[00:50:28] was throwing up and dizzy.
[00:50:29] I couldn't walk through the bathroom.
[00:50:31] And so I went to the hospital cause a boxer had just died.
[00:50:35] That's right.
[00:50:36] Yeah.
[00:50:36] A boxer had just died.
[00:50:37] And I was like, bro, I'm messed up.
[00:50:40] And one of my team guy friends came and drove me to the
[00:50:42] hospital cause I couldn't like, I was done.
[00:50:46] And, but here's the, here's done.
[00:50:50] Now here's dumb.
[00:50:51] She's like no contact for six months.
[00:50:53] And I was like, cool.
[00:50:54] Four weeks later, I was like, I think I'm good to go.
[00:50:57] Yeah.
[00:50:58] And I was, we were training again.
[00:50:59] Like doing that.
[00:51:01] So don't be stupid.
[00:51:02] Did you get amnesia or anything like that?
[00:51:04] No.
[00:51:05] No, I didn't.
[00:51:07] I got a concussion from football.
[00:51:08] I think I told you this where I got amnesia straight up.
[00:51:10] Woke up like, not well, I was conscious, but I woke up, you
[00:51:14] know, you come to the amnesia or whatever, just confused.
[00:51:17] Same deal.
[00:51:18] No contact.
[00:51:18] But they were like, well, it's your first concussion.
[00:51:21] The next week I played a game.
[00:51:24] The first hit I took another amnesia scenario.
[00:51:26] It was like, I don't know where I am or whatever.
[00:51:28] That's why they have concussion protocol now and all this stuff.
[00:51:31] They didn't used to have that back in the day when you were
[00:51:33] over there at Kauai High.
[00:51:35] Yeah.
[00:51:35] I had probably about 10 serious ones, but one of them
[00:51:38] after Japan, I fought a runner.
[00:51:41] I went to Spain, like, Rathwards, and I was like a 12-year-old kid.
[00:51:44] Like, I had the mental capacity of about a 12-year-old kid.
[00:51:49] I was like, hey, I didn't do it.
[00:51:50] And I would just do it.
[00:51:51] I was very, I don't know, for about two weeks.
[00:51:54] Yeah.
[00:51:55] Did you felt out of it or was it just?
[00:51:57] You know, I understand.
[00:51:59] I'm going to fall down, catch myself.
[00:52:01] So I was twice a day, so I was twice a week,
[00:52:03] and then I went down.
[00:52:04] Even like six months later, I got like one or two of those.
[00:52:06] Like, well, I got to sit down.
[00:52:08] But not for a long time.
[00:52:09] Not for a long time.
[00:52:09] You just like playing with Legos and stuff.
[00:52:11] Yeah.
[00:52:12] Coloring you.
[00:52:13] Damn, a chocolate.
[00:52:14] That's good time.
[00:52:15] Well-timed.
[00:52:15] But, Brian, they're like, hey, how long?
[00:52:18] Six months or whatever?
[00:52:20] Because, yeah, you feel better.
[00:52:21] Because even the next week, I felt better.
[00:52:23] I was like, bro, I'm not dizzy.
[00:52:24] I don't feel no pain or whatever, but like, your head is so weak now.
[00:52:27] So like, you could get like a small light,
[00:52:29] I got a light hit.
[00:52:30] It was a light hit.
[00:52:31] And I was just confused.
[00:52:32] Like, I don't even know where I am.
[00:52:33] Can they pull you out of the game then?
[00:52:34] Oh, yeah.
[00:52:35] Because you were just done.
[00:52:35] Everyone on the whole team knew I'm like,
[00:52:38] Brad's kind of scary, to be honest with you.
[00:52:40] Like, you don't know what's going on at all.
[00:52:42] And oh, yeah, they knew because I had it the week before.
[00:52:44] They pulled me out.
[00:52:45] Well, Dean, you've taken some shots in your MMA career.
[00:52:50] And you've never been knocked out in an MMA fight.
[00:52:54] Rocked out.
[00:52:55] I've been knocked out.
[00:52:55] You've been knocked down, but you've never been knocked out.
[00:52:58] I've watched some of your fights that I was actually at.
[00:53:01] And I still can't believe that you didn't get KO'd to next month.
[00:53:07] You're just like, oh, cool, whatever.
[00:53:08] I'm going to keep fighting you.
[00:53:09] That's the reason I don't look like Justin Bieber.
[00:53:13] I look a little bit different.
[00:53:16] All right.
[00:53:17] Let's be careful of traumatic brain injury.
[00:53:20] Chokes.
[00:53:21] Next section on jokes.
[00:53:21] Chokes are the most effective way to end a fight without a weapon.
[00:53:26] They incapacitate an enemy.
[00:53:28] With supervision, jokes can be applied in training exactly
[00:53:31] as a soldier would in the battlefield.
[00:53:33] Great.
[00:53:34] For training purposes, hold jokes only until your opponent taps.
[00:53:37] Holding a choke for lengthy periods may cause injury or death.
[00:53:41] OK.
[00:53:42] So this is one of the things we're dealing with.
[00:53:46] They have to say that.
[00:53:47] They have to say that.
[00:53:48] I know that's put.
[00:53:49] We have to say what?
[00:53:50] Like it could be injury.
[00:53:51] If you hold someone asleep for five minutes,
[00:53:54] but if someone goes to sleep, you let them go.
[00:53:57] They'll wake up.
[00:53:58] Now, there are certain substances that can actually
[00:54:01] interact with certain organs that can be dangerous.
[00:54:04] That's true.
[00:54:05] If someone has a medical condition, never know.
[00:54:09] But I swear, being choked out is safer than being knocked out.
[00:54:13] Oh, it's not.
[00:54:15] It's infinitely safer.
[00:54:17] It's infinitely safer.
[00:54:19] Now, if you have.
[00:54:19] Being choked out is painless.
[00:54:23] I would go so far as to say being choked out.
[00:54:27] Has no negative impact on your health.
[00:54:29] Yeah.
[00:54:30] No.
[00:54:31] Now, look, would you want to get choked out all day every day?
[00:54:33] No.
[00:54:33] But if you get choked out, 30 seconds later,
[00:54:37] you are totally viable to do anything that you need to do.
[00:54:42] With no impairment whatsoever.
[00:54:44] You get knocked out just like you said, Echo Charles.
[00:54:47] If someone gets knocked out, you are messed up.
[00:54:52] And you have probably some kind of permanent damage
[00:54:55] to your brain.
[00:54:57] Choked out?
[00:54:58] No factors for it.
[00:55:00] Would you compare being choked out to like your leg falling asleep?
[00:55:04] I'm sure anatomically and physiologically,
[00:55:06] there's a lot different.
[00:55:07] But yeah, probably something.
[00:55:08] You know, like your leg falls asleep.
[00:55:10] You're like, oh, and then it comes back.
[00:55:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:55:12] Then you're fine.
[00:55:13] That's what it feels like to be honest.
[00:55:15] Yeah, it's just it's horrible because law enforcement,
[00:55:20] actually at this point, there's so many law enforcement departments
[00:55:25] where the choke is illegal.
[00:55:28] Yeah, it's the same as shooting someone out.
[00:55:30] Yep, it's lethal force.
[00:55:32] And you will be charged.
[00:55:35] And when properly trained.
[00:55:38] Now look, if someone's improperly trained,
[00:55:40] there's a higher percentage that they might actually
[00:55:43] hurt somebody.
[00:55:44] True.
[00:55:45] But anyone that's properly trained, I mean, please,
[00:55:48] if you come to arrest me and I'm being a jerk
[00:55:50] because I'm on drugs or drunk or whatever.
[00:55:53] Choke me out.
[00:55:54] Please choke me.
[00:55:54] Don't shoot me.
[00:55:55] Don't shoot me and don't beat me in the head with a baton,
[00:55:58] right?
[00:55:59] Because that's going to mess me up permanently.
[00:56:01] Whereas you choke me out, you put me to sleep, put me in cuffs,
[00:56:04] I'll wake up sober up and I'll be like, yeah, I'm sorry, man.
[00:56:07] Whereas if you hit me in the head with a baton six times,
[00:56:10] which is what it's going to take to knock me out,
[00:56:12] I'm going to wake up.
[00:56:13] I'm going to be messed up.
[00:56:14] I'm going to have cuts all over my head.
[00:56:16] Stitches, yeah.
[00:56:17] Stitches, brain damage of some kind.
[00:56:21] I'm going to sue everybody.
[00:56:23] I'm going to be, it's just a disaster.
[00:56:26] Where's he put me to sleep?
[00:56:27] Last night on 99 Rear Naked Choke?
[00:56:30] It's a terrible thing.
[00:56:32] It's a terrible thing that that's been demonized the way it has.
[00:56:36] And look, there's been some cases where clearly it
[00:56:38] was a freaking major problem because a chokehold got put on,
[00:56:41] held for too long, put on by someone that was panicked
[00:56:45] or otherwise freaking out.
[00:56:47] And it was the wrong move to make and the training
[00:56:51] wasn't there to let a person realize, oh,
[00:56:53] this person's unconscious.
[00:56:54] Now I need to let him go.
[00:56:55] Yeah, true.
[00:56:57] And no one was detached enough to be like, hey,
[00:56:59] you that person's subdued.
[00:57:01] Now you can let him go.
[00:57:05] But that's jokes.
[00:57:07] What did you write down to you?
[00:57:08] No, I was just, I was saying like, you know,
[00:57:11] about the illusions of, well, I mean, it's you see, you know,
[00:57:16] so if you have me in a chokehold, I'll bite your arm
[00:57:18] or I'll poke your eyes.
[00:57:20] And truth is, you get a high level black belt
[00:57:22] and they have a choke and try to actually start,
[00:57:25] start with my arm in your mouth if you want.
[00:57:27] Your teeth will, it won't shatter, but you will stop biting me.
[00:57:32] Or you'll reach back from my eyes.
[00:57:33] You have three seconds to go to sleep.
[00:57:34] I can hide my eyes too.
[00:57:35] And the eyes are not like jello.
[00:57:37] I mean, they're very sensitive, but I mean,
[00:57:40] it's just funny people think, oh, you know, that's your C.
[00:57:43] We're gonna try to just reach back to focus eyes.
[00:57:45] That's annoying.
[00:57:46] It pissed me off actually.
[00:57:47] You saw that video with Boss Rootin.
[00:57:48] Yeah, you know, with the chokehold,
[00:57:50] reach back from my eyes or reach for the groin.
[00:57:53] So these are targets or opportunity.
[00:57:55] You have to include that as a possibility, right?
[00:57:57] But I'm saying like, just the thought of,
[00:57:59] here's a quick ease, we have the choke,
[00:58:00] just reach back for the eyes.
[00:58:01] No, it's not that easy because if they know
[00:58:03] what they're doing, they're squeezing,
[00:58:04] you're taking three seconds, you're sleeping.
[00:58:05] You're sleeping.
[00:58:06] And you're not getting their eyes out in three seconds.
[00:58:08] You might scratch your eyelid.
[00:58:10] I've had people try to gouge my eyes out before
[00:58:12] and it's ineffective compared to a choke.
[00:58:14] They're going to sleep.
[00:58:15] It'll kind of piss me off.
[00:58:16] I choke you a little harder.
[00:58:17] I choke harder.
[00:58:19] Bite my arm right through your teeth.
[00:58:20] You know, it's just stuff like that.
[00:58:21] It sounds brutal.
[00:58:22] It is brutal, but don't bite my arm.
[00:58:24] You know what I'm saying?
[00:58:24] So yeah, so that, so there's a happy medium
[00:58:26] of including that as a possibility,
[00:58:28] but not really, I don't think that that is a quick fix.
[00:58:30] It's just something to include in your training.
[00:58:34] Joint locks, attacks on most large joints,
[00:58:37] for example, elbow, shoulder and knee are painful
[00:58:40] long before causing injuries,
[00:58:42] which allows soldiers to conduct full force training
[00:58:45] without significant risk of injury.
[00:58:47] The exceptions are wrist attacks and twisting knee attacks.
[00:58:51] Therefore these attacks should be taught with great care
[00:58:54] and should not be allowed during sparring.
[00:58:57] That's interesting.
[00:58:58] Pete the Greek disagrees, 100%.
[00:59:00] Yeah.
[00:59:02] The way we do jockeau echo myself,
[00:59:04] what they're talking about is something known as a told
[00:59:06] or a heel look to twist your heel or your foot,
[00:59:10] but the consequences of your knee twist usually depends
[00:59:12] on if you have a strong knee and a weak ankle.
[00:59:14] Your ankle might pop first.
[00:59:15] Now these kind of things done responsibly
[00:59:17] can be done in training as long as you catch a release.
[00:59:20] Also your partner has to know
[00:59:21] and not turn the wrong way and hurt themselves.
[00:59:22] So I think they should be included in training,
[00:59:24] but I see a white belt, you know,
[00:59:25] teaching my heel look can go hard because yeah,
[00:59:28] with a boot on a military boot,
[00:59:29] you can just grab the boot and twist it.
[00:59:30] You don't need to get a heel look, you know,
[00:59:31] they can just grab your boot.
[00:59:32] So with the boots on, leg lock city, bro.
[00:59:35] Yeah.
[00:59:37] It is with heel hooks,
[00:59:40] heel hooks do not hurt until you're injured.
[00:59:42] Right at the edge, yeah.
[00:59:43] Yeah, right at the edge.
[00:59:44] Right, but I actually hurt someone with a heel hook.
[00:59:50] I was a blue belt and I was training with a friend of mine
[00:59:53] who's a seal, who's all amped up
[00:59:57] and I put a heel hook on and I did,
[01:00:00] I put it on to a point where I was like,
[01:00:02] oh, you know, whatever, he's not tapping
[01:00:06] and I think I just like let it go or whatever,
[01:00:08] but it hurt him.
[01:00:09] So, and he didn't really feel the pain from it.
[01:00:12] I went to something else.
[01:00:14] So it is a thing and you do need to pay attention to that,
[01:00:17] that heel hooks really don't hurt that much
[01:00:20] until you're injured.
[01:00:25] Wrist locks.
[01:00:26] Yeah, there's also that.
[01:00:27] That's weird.
[01:00:28] I don't know why, is that included?
[01:00:31] There's many bones in the, you know,
[01:00:32] the hand is, it's all these bones together
[01:00:33] and there's certain little pop could be this one bone
[01:00:37] and this one, this one little, like,
[01:00:38] Dr. Luke would, you know,
[01:00:40] has over the hands, human hand, obviously,
[01:00:42] but it could be this little knuckle,
[01:00:44] it could be the finger, you get me,
[01:00:46] it could be that finger, it could be,
[01:00:47] so a little pressure could pop a finger.
[01:00:50] Yeah, so that's what they mean.
[01:00:52] They are effective though,
[01:00:52] there's some really effective wrist locks.
[01:00:55] Generally speaking on the ground,
[01:00:56] there's not a lot of very effective standing wrist locks
[01:00:59] against a trained opponent at least.
[01:01:00] Because there's the,
[01:01:01] because the opponent has a lot of mobility.
[01:01:02] Yes, yes, you need to isolate one of the major limbs,
[01:01:05] the neck or one of the arms.
[01:01:06] So you control next to the trunk of the body,
[01:01:08] is what I'm saying.
[01:01:08] Yeah.
[01:01:09] You know how like the heel hook, right?
[01:01:12] You don't really feel it until like,
[01:01:13] kind of too late scenario, right?
[01:01:15] What about knee bars?
[01:01:16] In your experience, same deal?
[01:01:18] Kimura is worse than a straight knee lock.
[01:01:20] Kimura is what the pain.
[01:01:21] The twisting, the twisting motion,
[01:01:23] if you're, if you're on bops in a Kimura,
[01:01:25] it could be a problem.
[01:01:26] If your knee pops from a straight, I mean,
[01:01:28] you know, you'd be sore.
[01:01:29] Now, if you don't tap at all and it does break,
[01:01:31] and then it's of course serious injury,
[01:01:32] but the straight knee lock,
[01:01:34] you feel the pain right away.
[01:01:35] But your question about the pain level.
[01:01:37] Yeah, exactly, right?
[01:01:38] The pain level in a straight knee lock is there.
[01:01:40] Yeah, for sure.
[01:01:41] You don't tap, yeah.
[01:01:42] I've had my knee pop from a knee bar,
[01:01:45] didn't feel it, even when it popped,
[01:01:47] I didn't really feel it that much.
[01:01:48] I knew there was something wrong.
[01:01:50] You're so athletic.
[01:01:50] Seriously, running your whole life,
[01:01:52] maybe that's the reason, running, running, running,
[01:01:53] you lose a lot of the nerves in your knee.
[01:01:55] Yeah, it's very possible, yes.
[01:01:57] Cause it did swell up.
[01:01:58] I didn't like, I didn't.
[01:01:59] I was gonna say, was it actually injured though?
[01:02:01] It was like,
[01:02:02] cause you have those weird knees too that sometimes make a noise
[01:02:04] for no reason.
[01:02:05] They pop out, yeah.
[01:02:06] Yeah, and that's a good point.
[01:02:08] It probably was that, it was swollen for,
[01:02:10] I don't know, a week, two weeks maybe,
[01:02:12] which actually technically as far as compared to a real knee
[01:02:14] injury is not that much time, I don't know.
[01:02:16] So was I injured?
[01:02:18] Moderately injured.
[01:02:20] But it did swell up,
[01:02:21] and I think it was just a meniscus situation.
[01:02:23] But I didn't feel it though.
[01:02:25] It wasn't painful.
[01:02:26] That's strange.
[01:02:27] So yeah, it could be like a unique thing.
[01:02:29] Like I'm sure with the arm lock,
[01:02:30] that next day the arms swell up,
[01:02:31] then it tap, yeah.
[01:02:32] But the knee is a little more serious,
[01:02:33] but it's not as bad as a Kimura.
[01:02:34] A Kimura, if you get an injury from a Kimura,
[01:02:37] it's a little worse than a straight knee lock, generally.
[01:02:39] Twisting, your look is different.
[01:02:40] Yeah, well your shoulders are more complex, joint.
[01:02:44] Twisting.
[01:02:45] What have you, you got knee surgeries pretty early.
[01:02:48] Yeah.
[01:02:49] Didn't you Dean Lister?
[01:02:50] 97 and 2001.
[01:02:51] How old were you?
[01:02:52] I must have been 20, 21.
[01:02:55] And what was the first injury?
[01:02:57] It was from high school football.
[01:02:58] I got hit from the side.
[01:02:59] My knee was on, someone was on there,
[01:03:01] like they already got knocked down.
[01:03:03] They were on their hands and knees,
[01:03:04] and my knee got propped up against the ribs.
[01:03:06] I didn't see them.
[01:03:07] I'm pursuing down line, I was a linebacker.
[01:03:09] And so I hit from the right side,
[01:03:10] and I twisted over, just perfect.
[01:03:12] You know, I didn't see the guy.
[01:03:13] I saw the video, my knee planted on his side,
[01:03:16] and I got hit from the right.
[01:03:17] It just popped right over.
[01:03:18] So was it, oh, ACL?
[01:03:19] ACL, the LCL, and the meniscus medial,
[01:03:23] or the medial, or a lot of other meniscus.
[01:03:24] So you got the triple front surgery?
[01:03:26] Bucket handle, Terry, that's what they call it.
[01:03:28] But yeah.
[01:03:29] And then the doctor was like, yeah, knee surgery,
[01:03:31] but you have a strong knee capsule.
[01:03:33] I'm like, what does that mean?
[01:03:34] Well, right now you're okay kind of,
[01:03:36] but that eventually just came out.
[01:03:37] James Nielsen had a triangle.
[01:03:39] I was in a full squat, just came out one time on the mat in 97,
[01:03:43] and then I got surgery.
[01:03:44] And then you got the needed surgery.
[01:03:45] I always kind of forgot that you got surgery in 97,
[01:03:49] and that most of your career was post knee surgery.
[01:03:52] And I think I shot off the Ron Bergen for,
[01:03:53] I had an appointment for them,
[01:03:54] and my insurance lapsed just like a week after that.
[01:03:57] So I had full.
[01:03:59] Yeah, sweet.
[01:04:00] So I got, yeah, thanks to Ron Bergen, my friend.
[01:04:02] Yeah, he took the job.
[01:04:04] You got lucky on that one.
[01:04:05] Lucky, that's a expensive thing.
[01:04:07] Yeah, and then you got another one in 2001?
[01:04:09] Yeah, but that was just a meniscus.
[01:04:11] That's just a shaving, yeah, meniscus.
[01:04:13] 2001, 2003 was a good year for me in Brazil.
[01:04:16] 2001, I was, you know, three weeks,
[01:04:18] mdm'd up, not a big deal.
[01:04:19] And then you got shoulder surgery.
[01:04:22] Shoulder surgery, I had five solo surgeries
[01:04:24] in a year and a half, yeah.
[01:04:27] That's not fun.
[01:04:28] Because I had an infection in Brazil,
[01:04:29] in that Brazil, I have an infection, you know?
[01:04:32] A really bad, serious infection.
[01:04:33] Like they were even saying in Portuguese,
[01:04:35] like, hey, we're not saying you might get your arm cut off,
[01:04:37] but you know, it could happen.
[01:04:38] I'm like, bro, when a doctor says,
[01:04:41] yeah, that's bad.
[01:04:42] They're kind of like, but they're telling you for a reason.
[01:04:44] So, yeah.
[01:04:45] So, yeah, but I think I'm actually.
[01:04:46] What surgery was that?
[01:04:47] Like the original problem, what was it?
[01:04:49] It was my medial, my infraspinatus,
[01:04:52] my sub scapularis, and my labrum and my rototocuff,
[01:04:55] which was all ripped up from all the competitions I've had.
[01:04:58] Also in Russia, broke, broken Russia, snapped.
[01:05:01] That's just a bad arm.
[01:05:02] That's all, but it's okay, right?
[01:05:04] Surgery's happy.
[01:05:05] We have a lot of overlapping injuries.
[01:05:08] Even actually, I tore my knee,
[01:05:11] kind of real similar in a similar way the year before.
[01:05:14] 96, yeah?
[01:05:15] Football, same deal.
[01:05:17] And you're bicep too?
[01:05:18] Yeah, the bicep.
[01:05:19] In fact, one of our surgeries was on the same day.
[01:05:22] We ran into each other.
[01:05:23] Did you know that?
[01:05:24] Yeah, I go in for the surgery.
[01:05:26] And the doctor's like, oh yeah, Dean's here.
[01:05:28] I was like, what?
[01:05:29] And then he's like coming to after his surgery.
[01:05:31] He's like, wait, who was the doctor?
[01:05:32] Were he like, do you guys?
[01:05:33] Well, yeah, because you said, when I first tore my bicep,
[01:05:38] it was after you tore yours.
[01:05:39] It was at a different time.
[01:05:40] So when I tore mine, I was like, hey, who's your guy?
[01:05:43] Like who did you go to?
[01:05:44] Because he was back in the game.
[01:05:46] So I was like, let me go to that guy.
[01:05:48] So it was Norman Cain.
[01:05:49] Yeah, that's right.
[01:05:49] And so I went to him and then he passed me up.
[01:05:52] He's like, oh, Dean's here?
[01:05:54] No, no, no, that was the first one.
[01:05:55] The second, or when I ran into him was the second one.
[01:05:58] What if I'm being real?
[01:05:59] I'm like, yeah, go, don't do it.
[01:06:01] Don't trust him.
[01:06:01] I would have trusted him if I was you.
[01:06:04] You've only torn one bicep, haven't you, Dean?
[01:06:06] Oh, well, yeah, it was complete tear, though.
[01:06:08] Just rolled up my shoulder.
[01:06:09] You were there when that rolled up my shoulder.
[01:06:11] I was there too.
[01:06:11] I had two shoulders.
[01:06:12] No bicep.
[01:06:13] You were two shoulders.
[01:06:14] I'm just being a bit rude.
[01:06:15] I remember Robert Garcia, we were back together.
[01:06:17] I was like, I don't know, but yeah, that's bad surgery.
[01:06:21] But the second one, it was like nine years later
[01:06:23] when you got your other surgery on your shoulder bicep.
[01:06:26] It was like, he had a big surgery.
[01:06:29] So I went and Norman Cain did yours, right?
[01:06:31] That one.
[01:06:31] But I didn't get it from Norman.
[01:06:33] Norman Cain didn't do mine.
[01:06:33] It was the other guy.
[01:06:34] It was like his partner guy or whatever.
[01:06:37] But I saw that's who told me when I walked in,
[01:06:39] it was Norman Cain and he was like, oh, what's up, man?
[01:06:42] Dean's here.
[01:06:42] And he was like, no, we finished already.
[01:06:44] So then he's like, you know when you come.
[01:06:47] That's a bad sign for Jiu-Jitsu when you let go
[01:06:49] to get surgery and your other friends
[01:06:51] or they're getting surgery as well.
[01:06:52] Another guy's there too.
[01:06:53] Yeah, not a good sign.
[01:06:55] 100% Rika, how is your arm?
[01:06:58] It's getting strong.
[01:06:59] It's rehab and progress, you know, so I'll be okay.
[01:07:04] Yeah, check.
[01:07:06] It actually has a protocol.
[01:07:07] Like I said, the army doesn't miss anything.
[01:07:09] Protocol for injured soldiers.
[01:07:11] You know, it's got everything in here.
[01:07:13] It also says that striking is not the most efficient way
[01:07:16] to incapacitate an enemy and often results
[01:07:19] in injury to the striker.
[01:07:22] So this is like a pro grappling statement.
[01:07:25] Not only is it not the most efficient way,
[01:07:27] but I'm probably gonna get hurt too.
[01:07:28] Choco, the old school boxers, apparently,
[01:07:31] no gloves would punch the body more.
[01:07:33] That's why the hands were done here.
[01:07:34] Because punching the forehead back in those days,
[01:07:36] your hands broken now, you're like, eh,
[01:07:39] you know, probably retired now.
[01:07:40] Or you're not gonna go into the job at the factory now.
[01:07:44] These guys actually worked at the time.
[01:07:45] So the rumor, actually, I don't remember,
[01:07:47] pretty much known with the 1800s.
[01:07:49] It was like the hands were low
[01:07:50] because you were punching more of the body.
[01:07:52] Face, yeah, but you're taking a chance to the face.
[01:07:54] So there we go.
[01:07:55] I mean, they knew it back and then they didn't have
[01:07:57] the same medical care we do now.
[01:07:58] And there's reason they were hands low.
[01:08:01] Yeah, they actually keep them in,
[01:08:02] tucked to their sides a little bit.
[01:08:03] They'll prevent those body shots.
[01:08:05] And yet further out in front of them,
[01:08:07] so they maybe can get up and defend the face a little bit
[01:08:09] if they need to.
[01:08:10] That's interesting.
[01:08:13] It does say however striking is important part
[01:08:15] of overall strife fight strategy,
[01:08:16] strikes can be very effective in manipulating the opponent
[01:08:19] into unfavorable positions.
[01:08:20] Striking can be practiced
[01:08:21] with various types of protective padding,
[01:08:22] such as gloves.
[01:08:23] Defense can be practiced using reduced force blows.
[01:08:26] So there you go.
[01:08:28] Talks about like, I mean,
[01:08:31] this is such a detailed document
[01:08:34] and the army just does this, man.
[01:08:35] The army is squared away when it comes to doctrine.
[01:08:37] They make them just incredibly detailed things
[01:08:40] and this team obviously put a huge amount into this.
[01:08:46] Talking about training.
[01:08:48] The military profession is inherently dangerous.
[01:08:51] Commanders must train their units to tough standards
[01:08:53] under the most realistic conditions possible.
[01:08:58] This chapter discusses the combatives training program
[01:09:01] from an institutional training to operational unit training,
[01:09:05] training areas, training techniques, teaching techniques
[01:09:07] and safety precautions that must be considered
[01:09:09] before conducting combatives training.
[01:09:10] And they just go, they get after it in this thing.
[01:09:14] I mean, this is like, if you didn't know anything
[01:09:18] about anything, you could pick up this manual
[01:09:20] and start to piece together, you know?
[01:09:22] Deliberate work risk assessment worksheet.
[01:09:25] It is vital to identify necessary risk
[01:09:27] by comparing potential benefit to potential loss.
[01:09:29] The draw process allows units to identify
[01:09:31] and control hazards, conserve combat power
[01:09:33] and resources and complete the mission.
[01:09:35] This process is cyclic and continuous.
[01:09:37] It must be integrated into all phases
[01:09:39] of operations and training.
[01:09:41] Like these guys are just,
[01:09:42] they're not even playing around with us.
[01:09:44] And then go, what do you got, Dean?
[01:09:45] No, I was just saying, like,
[01:09:47] I like how this is structured.
[01:09:48] I really like it a lot because you need to have a guideline
[01:09:50] especially in the military.
[01:09:51] I think it's really good.
[01:09:52] You're doing a good job so far.
[01:09:53] For us, they're very complete.
[01:09:54] One thing that I think is very important
[01:09:56] as far as training on your own,
[01:09:57] if you're in the military or if you're under
[01:09:59] some certain guidance like this is,
[01:10:01] there has to be some wiggle room, some leeway,
[01:10:03] such as also a move that I don't even do that well,
[01:10:06] but I know my students do well.
[01:10:08] Like, remember, Eric had a better darsen than me.
[01:10:11] Maybe I taught at them though.
[01:10:12] So there's certain things I'll teach
[01:10:14] that would not be under my guideline,
[01:10:16] but I teach because some people do those moves naturally well.
[01:10:19] Some people I wouldn't strive,
[01:10:20] I wouldn't teach, I'll teach in the triangle,
[01:10:22] but that's it, the legs are not very long.
[01:10:23] It's not gonna be their main move,
[01:10:24] but they don't learn it anyways.
[01:10:25] Someone else is gonna be, that's gonna be their move.
[01:10:28] So I think it's really important we have the guideline,
[01:10:29] but there's also has to be some wiggle room.
[01:10:31] That's why it's important to train in your own free time
[01:10:34] to find your own style.
[01:10:35] I think it's really important for Jiu-Jitsu.
[01:10:37] Yeah, you don't wanna learn by the book only.
[01:10:40] It's good to have guidelines.
[01:10:41] Yeah, it's gotta have the guidelines,
[01:10:42] but you gotta get out there.
[01:10:43] I think it goes through the whole thing
[01:10:44] of like how the basic combatives course of instruction,
[01:10:47] there's a BCC instruction and what that does
[01:10:50] and what that includes.
[01:10:52] And then tactical combatives course
[01:10:54] and what that's all about and what that includes.
[01:10:56] And then you get them combatives master trainer course
[01:10:59] of instruction, the CMTC.
[01:11:03] This addresses all ranges of the fight
[01:11:05] by training striking skills and introduces soldiers
[01:11:07] to the integrating combatives training
[01:11:09] into the rest of their warrior tasks and drills,
[01:11:12] IE incorporating combatives into training,
[01:11:15] close quarters combat training and mission unit training.
[01:11:18] And then it goes over duties of the combatives
[01:11:23] master trainer course certified instructors.
[01:11:27] And it says everything that they have to do.
[01:11:29] And there's a whole list of things that they have to do
[01:11:32] to be like a master trainer in this stuff.
[01:11:36] They went to great lengths to get this program.
[01:11:41] And you know, a lot of this, I bet was they,
[01:11:46] you gotta play the game in the military.
[01:11:48] You know, you gotta play the game.
[01:11:50] You gotta give the leadership what it is
[01:11:52] that they need to say, yeah, we, yep.
[01:11:56] Oh, this is, I bet you they pulled out like some
[01:11:59] immediate action drill rifle training guidebook
[01:12:01] and said, all right, we're gonna put all the stuff
[01:12:03] that's in here about safety, we're gonna put it in here.
[01:12:05] And they did an awesome job of setting this up
[01:12:08] where it's kind of hard, hard for the leadership
[01:12:10] to say, well, you guys really haven't fought this through.
[01:12:12] It's like, oh no, we fought this through
[01:12:14] to the freaking nth degree.
[01:12:16] Yeah, here's some of the stuff
[01:12:18] that the combatives instructor has to do.
[01:12:23] Receive at least 20 hours of instruction,
[01:12:25] gain the ability to teach basic combatives
[01:12:26] and develop scenario-based training
[01:12:28] and understand standard competition roles.
[01:12:30] Pass a hands-on performance-oriented test
[01:12:33] on basic combatives techniques,
[01:12:35] including the following maneuvers.
[01:12:37] Escape the mount, trap and roll, pass the guard,
[01:12:39] achieve mount from side control, arm push and roll
[01:12:42] to the rear mount, escape rear mount, escape the mount,
[01:12:44] shrimp to the guard, scissor sweep, rear naked choke,
[01:12:46] cross collar choke from the mount or guard,
[01:12:48] bend arm bar, straight arm bar from the guard,
[01:12:50] straight arm bar from the mount, sweep and attempt
[01:12:54] the straight arm, sweep from the attempted
[01:12:56] straight arm bar, close the gap and achieve the clinch,
[01:12:58] take down from the front to the mount, rear take down,
[01:13:01] front guillotine choke.
[01:13:03] Guillotine choke, sorry.
[01:13:05] Guillotine.
[01:13:06] Guillotine, poor.
[01:13:07] Pass a written exam on the combatives program
[01:13:10] and standard combatives rules,
[01:13:13] conduct at least one scenario-based training exercise
[01:13:17] and receive an additional 20-hour training.
[01:13:18] So they've got everything, like that's what you need to do.
[01:13:21] Right?
[01:13:22] So that's, this is as thorough as you could hope for.
[01:13:26] They forgot the spinning, jumping,
[01:13:28] double reverse, inverted, upside down.
[01:13:33] We'll plot that, but other than that.
[01:13:34] And you know, we had Tim Kennedy on
[01:13:36] and he was talking about, he's the three-time,
[01:13:39] the three-time army combatives champion.
[01:13:43] And when he won, he won it twice
[01:13:44] and he was the only person that had won it twice
[01:13:46] and then he won it three times.
[01:13:47] But that's just an awesome competition.
[01:13:49] And it's grueling what they do.
[01:13:51] It's like multiple fights.
[01:13:53] And the rules kind of escalate as you go through.
[01:13:56] I think like the first day,
[01:13:57] when they're just trying to weed people out,
[01:13:58] it's just like grappling only.
[01:14:00] Yeah.
[01:14:00] And then the next day is like grappling with
[01:14:03] strikes on the ground or something like this.
[01:14:05] And then like the finals is just basically MMA
[01:14:08] and the freaking fatigue's on, right?
[01:14:11] That's freaking legit, man.
[01:14:13] And there's, everybody shows up to that thing.
[01:14:16] It's the army, right?
[01:14:18] Freaking legit.
[01:14:20] Outstanding way to figure out where people are at.
[01:14:23] And then it gets into like unit training.
[01:14:28] And a successful unit combatist program
[01:14:30] continued to focus on the core techniques
[01:14:31] taught to soldiers during the international military training.
[01:14:33] Mastery of these moves, not exposure to a large number
[01:14:35] of techniques will result in more proficient fighters.
[01:14:38] For unit combat is training to be successful.
[01:14:40] It must become an integral part of the unit's culture.
[01:14:43] Successful unit combat is programs
[01:14:44] have four characteristics.
[01:14:45] Training for every soldier,
[01:14:47] set standards and hold people accountable for them,
[01:14:50] motivate soldiers and leaders to achieve excellence,
[01:14:52] integrate combatives into mission training.
[01:14:54] So I think like that's the kind of thing
[01:14:58] that statement right there.
[01:14:59] This is what law enforcement needs to look at.
[01:15:02] Yeah.
[01:15:03] Combatives training for everyone.
[01:15:04] They need to do it all the time.
[01:15:06] It needs to be part of mission training.
[01:15:07] And I've been going around saying for the last couple of years
[01:15:10] that I think law enforcement should be training
[01:15:12] 20% of their time, 20% of the time that you're at work
[01:15:17] as law enforcement, you should be getting trained.
[01:15:20] But I think it was interesting
[01:15:20] because Jocko, we talked about this personally
[01:15:23] about law enforcement.
[01:15:24] You're like, you've done vehicle interdiction.
[01:15:26] You've actually done it in wartime scenarios at night.
[01:15:29] And the thing is, I'd rather get arrested by Jocko than,
[01:15:33] actually no.
[01:15:34] Other people would prefer to get arrested by Jocko
[01:15:38] than someone else who doesn't know Jiu Jitsu.
[01:15:40] So the thing is, yeah, it's not always nice of me.
[01:15:44] I'm also not that nice back, by the way, to be fair.
[01:15:47] But I think it's going to be, is that extreme?
[01:15:50] I think the idea of human confrontation,
[01:15:55] just being used that more and more.
[01:15:57] I mean, how do you get debate skills
[01:15:59] without getting into, you're not getting argument,
[01:16:01] not falling argument,
[01:16:01] but you actually have to get into the debate itself.
[01:16:03] You can just talk by yourself or get in the debate
[01:16:05] with someone else to get skills like that.
[01:16:07] So I think it's a good point, plus you get in shape.
[01:16:10] Yeah, so let me ask you this question.
[01:16:13] Picture you have 10 police officers.
[01:16:17] Yeah.
[01:16:17] And there's a scenario that's unfolding.
[01:16:22] And one of the groups of 10 is like normal police officers
[01:16:26] today and they have the normal four hours per year
[01:16:30] of defensive tactics and combatives.
[01:16:33] But you have all 10 of them versus another department
[01:16:38] that is training 20% of their time has spent training.
[01:16:41] So, and they've been for a year,
[01:16:43] have been spent 20% of their time training.
[01:16:45] And there's a call, some emergency situation.
[01:16:49] There's somebody going crazy with a knife.
[01:16:53] There's a domestic violence scenario
[01:16:57] where a guy's on PCP and he's freaking out.
[01:17:01] And, or you come home to your house
[01:17:03] and there's like something bad is happening at your house.
[01:17:06] Who do you want to show up?
[01:17:09] That is it, do you want the 10 people,
[01:17:12] the 10 police officers that have had four hours of training
[01:17:14] each, so 40 hours of training,
[01:17:16] or do you want only eight?
[01:17:18] Because two of these guys are actually
[01:17:20] on their training right now, they're not working.
[01:17:22] So you only get eight, but that eight
[01:17:25] has trained hundreds of hours over the last year
[01:17:27] to prepare for all these different scenarios.
[01:17:29] There's no doubt who, anyone would pick.
[01:17:32] Anyone would pick.
[01:17:33] Well, that time could be a lot of better study of law.
[01:17:35] It could be a lot more for, I don't know,
[01:17:37] marksmanship, could be a lot more.
[01:17:38] They're stupid if they say that.
[01:17:39] It could be a lot more for counseling sessions.
[01:17:43] I mean, the thing is we're talking about human confrontation
[01:17:45] and I think how to deescalate because in Jitsu,
[01:17:48] it's not always about me being stronger than you,
[01:17:49] it's about me finding a way around.
[01:17:51] Yeah, and it's also,
[01:17:52] and also that training is not necessarily,
[01:17:55] it's not all combat, it's not all shooting.
[01:17:58] You will be taking deescalation.
[01:18:00] Hey, how do you deal with someone that's,
[01:18:01] oh, you can tell they're clearly angry,
[01:18:03] it's a domestic violence situation,
[01:18:04] the guy's freaking out, what are you gonna do?
[01:18:06] Hey, you need to settle down.
[01:18:07] And that's like, no, that's not gonna work out well.
[01:18:10] Yeah.
[01:18:11] You need to, hey, keep some distance, talk to them.
[01:18:13] You can, so you're gonna get trained
[01:18:15] in all these different aspects,
[01:18:16] it's not just training on shooting and fighting,
[01:18:18] it's training on how to deescalate,
[01:18:19] how to get control, how to set things up,
[01:18:22] what psychological maneuvers can you make
[01:18:24] to get someone to calm down?
[01:18:25] Like all those things are what you need to get trained in.
[01:18:28] So the fact that I hear the excuse of like,
[01:18:32] well, you need the police out,
[01:18:33] no, untrained police have less value,
[01:18:37] way less value than trained police, not even close.
[01:18:41] And you know, that was another thing
[01:18:42] where I was having some of those discussions
[01:18:44] and arguments while I was in the SEAL teams about,
[01:18:47] hey, this system that we're using right now,
[01:18:49] the guys are trained up in five days.
[01:18:51] The system that you're talking about would take years,
[01:18:53] you know, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
[01:18:55] 10 years to get proficient at.
[01:18:59] And I remember, I think it was like,
[01:19:00] occasionally you get a good comeback or whatever.
[01:19:03] I was like, well, you're in the teams for 20.
[01:19:05] So why not get good at it?
[01:19:07] You know, why would you expect someone to get good
[01:19:09] in five days at something that takes a lifetime
[01:19:11] to get good at?
[01:19:11] And by the way, you're in the SEAL teams for 20 years,
[01:19:13] at least, well, I guess you could be for less.
[01:19:15] No, I'm just kidding.
[01:19:16] But most guys, most guys are in it
[01:19:17] for four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11, 20, 25 years.
[01:19:21] Let's get good at this thing.
[01:19:25] So that's the unit training and they talk about standards
[01:19:28] and they talk about making it part of your physical training.
[01:19:31] Yeah.
[01:19:32] Right?
[01:19:33] If you're gonna train, that's another thing.
[01:19:34] Like police officers, that 20% of time
[01:19:38] that should be spent training, that includes,
[01:19:40] like, how are you getting in shape?
[01:19:42] Are you in shape?
[01:19:43] I want to be in shape if you're caught.
[01:19:44] Oh my God.
[01:19:46] You know, you see these, you see these,
[01:19:48] some of these videos of police officers
[01:19:52] and you're thinking, wait a second,
[01:19:54] how is this person gonna stop anybody
[01:19:56] that's remotely athletic, even if I just run away?
[01:19:59] How are you gonna catch anybody?
[01:20:02] Yeah.
[01:20:03] And you know, this whole thing, you know,
[01:20:04] that we did a podcast on the Uvaldi situation
[01:20:07] and it's just, what else needs to happen in America
[01:20:12] to realize that we need more training?
[01:20:14] And by the way, that Uvaldi situation,
[01:20:19] the fact that people didn't respond
[01:20:22] and acted in a cowardly manner is also part of training.
[01:20:28] It's also part of training,
[01:20:30] because you learn like, oh, if I don't do something aggressive,
[01:20:33] then I'm gonna get caught.
[01:20:35] I'm gonna look bad, I'm gonna be bad,
[01:20:37] I'm gonna, the culture changes.
[01:20:40] If you have a culture, and I used to see this
[01:20:41] with seal platoons, if you had a culture that like,
[01:20:43] you had some of these seal platoons coming through
[01:20:45] and they were like ready to take on the world.
[01:20:47] And you throw some scenario at them,
[01:20:48] they were going on the attack.
[01:20:51] And that's a culture that happens.
[01:20:53] You have another seal platoon where it's like,
[01:20:55] well, we're cautious, we have a zero defect policy,
[01:20:58] we don't wanna get in trouble,
[01:20:59] we don't wanna do anything wrong,
[01:21:00] we don't wanna look bad, and that's what happens.
[01:21:02] You see them stack up on a building,
[01:21:04] I don't wanna go, do you wanna go, I don't wanna go.
[01:21:06] So you have to inculcate them with the right culture
[01:21:10] where they know, hey, if you make a mistake,
[01:21:12] it's okay, because you're getting after it.
[01:21:14] I mean, we just did a freaking podcast
[01:21:15] about the damn Nazis.
[01:21:18] And part of the Nazis culture that they tried to instill
[01:21:21] was we'd rather have you make a bad decision
[01:21:23] and do something than not make a decision at all.
[01:21:26] Yeah, the worst decision is no decision sometimes.
[01:21:29] So the training that I'm talking about,
[01:21:31] it involves everything and it corrects all these problems.
[01:21:35] It's getting in shape, getting more,
[01:21:36] you're attuned to stress, human confrontation,
[01:21:40] de-escalation, how to defend yourself,
[01:21:43] how to not damage or how to lessen damage to a suspect.
[01:21:47] I think it's awesome, overall.
[01:21:49] You had that department that,
[01:21:51] I'm not saying this should be the policy,
[01:21:53] but one was at Michigan, some county, the sheriff,
[01:21:56] everyone had to be a blue belt in his department.
[01:21:58] Now I'm not saying that should be, then again,
[01:22:00] but it sounds like we're on the right track there.
[01:22:04] I'm just saying, I think it's, but then again,
[01:22:06] we're partial because we have this great reality college,
[01:22:09] where we're exposed to the other person.
[01:22:11] But also, we're seeing the news and we're seeing cops
[01:22:16] have to do things and get beat up by one guy
[01:22:19] and taking two or three people to take somebody
[01:22:20] and getting weapons taken away and it's like awful to see.
[01:22:23] How does this even happening?
[01:22:24] So it's not, look, we might be biased towards Jiu-Jitsu,
[01:22:27] fine, take my bias out of it, I'll still tell you
[01:22:30] that you better learn how to fight and you better train
[01:22:33] and you better spend time training.
[01:22:35] Jaco, you've seen at least 10 different videos,
[01:22:37] 10 different, I'm talking Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt
[01:22:40] versus random Jiu-Jitsu.
[01:22:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah, like for instance,
[01:22:44] he's mounted on the I-Com, Matt Serra,
[01:22:46] in Vegas this drunk guy was harassing him and haul.
[01:22:50] Rhyan haul, also in some restaurant.
[01:22:52] Rhyan haul?
[01:22:53] No, Rhyan haul.
[01:22:54] Rhyan haul, yeah, yeah.
[01:22:55] I'm full of drunk people and they're just mounted like,
[01:22:56] hey man, calm down, I'll sue you and this whole guy,
[01:22:58] you know, hey, call with the cop, you know,
[01:23:00] and the security comes and nobody gets punched.
[01:23:02] And I know this is the cops and the guy doesn't have a gun,
[01:23:04] I understand, but I'm saying these are black belts,
[01:23:06] which is of course different level,
[01:23:07] but they're holding it out and not hurting them.
[01:23:09] And they don't have three homies with batons.
[01:23:12] So by the way, you wanna have groups,
[01:23:13] you wanna have team tactics with law enforcement,
[01:23:17] of course, I'm not saying,
[01:23:18] but it is cool if you have the ability
[01:23:20] and the opportunity to, well, look at that.
[01:23:23] And it's also one from Brazil, this guy tried to,
[01:23:25] I'm not saying, I think she's just left,
[01:23:27] but this guy tried to, I don't know,
[01:23:31] take her purse or something and she's like,
[01:23:32] mounted on the guy, just beat him up.
[01:23:33] This is in Brazil, legit black belt,
[01:23:35] just female, just, the guy screaming,
[01:23:37] he's going soco, soco, which means help in Portuguese.
[01:23:39] Soco, soco, it means help in Portuguese
[01:23:42] and no one's helping him, it's just a film.
[01:23:44] It's like, just mounted, just beat the guy,
[01:23:46] like it's kinda brutal, but that is just,
[01:23:49] let's say it's a grandiose comparison,
[01:23:51] but if you have that opportunity and that ability,
[01:23:55] it's pretty cool, there we go.
[01:23:57] And it's heinous to watch this stuff
[01:24:02] on an almost daily basis, or, I mean, at least once a week,
[01:24:06] you're seeing a video of a cop that's not trained
[01:24:10] and at a bad outcome.
[01:24:13] And look, there's all kinds of cops
[01:24:15] that are doing the right thing all the time,
[01:24:16] there's cops that train Jiu Jitsu,
[01:24:17] there's cops that are doing things right
[01:24:19] to the best of their ability.
[01:24:20] By the way, they're investing their own money
[01:24:22] and their own time so that they can be better police officers.
[01:24:27] Good on them, but should you have to make that sacrifice?
[01:24:29] And by the way, what if you know,
[01:24:30] a guy's got a wife and kids and he's got a mortgage to pay
[01:24:32] and all of a sudden, it's $148 a month to train Jiu Jitsu
[01:24:36] or it's $165 a month to train Jiu Jitsu,
[01:24:39] all of a sudden it's like,
[01:24:41] I gotta make a choice between getting my kid a new bicycle
[01:24:45] and training Jiu Jitsu, you know what,
[01:24:47] I'm gonna sacrifice this month and the next thing,
[01:24:49] they look up in three years and they're not trained anymore.
[01:24:52] So why not help the police so that they can help the community?
[01:24:57] You know, they're doing a good job is our bro Ryan with BP.
[01:25:00] Yeah.
[01:25:01] Yes, that was React now, it's called the Bortak.
[01:25:04] They're like the federal SWAT team with the border.
[01:25:06] They actually had the guys who killed the Uvaldi shooter.
[01:25:08] Yeah, 100%.
[01:25:09] But these guys actually, Ryan has these guys,
[01:25:11] I mean, they do medical training, I don't know,
[01:25:12] but every day, but they have the Umbaricades training,
[01:25:16] you know, or they're doing ground,
[01:25:18] I even did a few similar classes out there
[01:25:20] and they don't wanna learn like the new knee lock, you know,
[01:25:22] and they're doing like the combattas,
[01:25:23] but for the Bortak, it's pretty cool
[01:25:26] because they're not just sitting around
[01:25:28] while they're going on duty,
[01:25:29] but they actually training every day.
[01:25:30] That's pretty cool.
[01:25:31] And that's the way law enforcement should be.
[01:25:35] You should train 20% of your time.
[01:25:38] If that means you train, you know, an hour a day
[01:25:40] or an hour and a half or two hours every day,
[01:25:42] or that means you take one day a week
[01:25:43] where you train all day, I don't know, but figure it out,
[01:25:47] because if you're not training,
[01:25:47] you're not gonna be prepared.
[01:25:49] And when you're not prepared, then you overreact.
[01:25:50] When you overreact, that causes problems.
[01:25:53] And then you get, you know, innocent people getting killed,
[01:25:57] or people that don't deserve to get killed, get killed.
[01:25:59] Why?
[01:26:00] Because there's a panic happening.
[01:26:01] It's extreme jockel, but I had a acquaintance
[01:26:04] that we're talking, he was talking about,
[01:26:05] he was an Afghanistan, he was in the Marines,
[01:26:08] and he was like, no, an army, my bad, it was army.
[01:26:10] Both sides will kill me for saying that.
[01:26:12] And he was talking about how they would practice
[01:26:14] putting IVs in with night vision on.
[01:26:16] Yeah.
[01:26:17] And like, you know, well, why?
[01:26:19] Well, in case we have night vision on, we can't see, you know?
[01:26:21] And, you know, cause it's different,
[01:26:23] that perception or whatever, but he's like, yeah,
[01:26:24] you know, that's just something like, okay, that makes sense.
[01:26:27] But that sounds kind of extreme.
[01:26:28] Well, why is it extreme?
[01:26:30] One day you might have to do that.
[01:26:31] Yeah, and how much better are you prepared for
[01:26:33] if you don't have to have night vision on?
[01:26:35] Well, cool.
[01:26:36] Yeah, it's easier.
[01:26:37] If you happen to roll up on a suspect
[01:26:39] and they attack you and they weigh 110 pounds,
[01:26:42] and they don't know anything, cool, you can handle them.
[01:26:44] Great.
[01:26:45] But what happens when they're 220 pounds
[01:26:46] and they're a purple belt?
[01:26:48] Yeah.
[01:26:48] Or they wrestled in high school.
[01:26:50] Is it most training for in case something goes wrong?
[01:26:52] Should be.
[01:26:53] So you have a jam in your pistol.
[01:26:54] Oh, well, I mean, you didn't clean your pistol correctly.
[01:26:56] Well, it's still gonna happen.
[01:26:57] It's still gonna have jams.
[01:26:58] There's level one, two, I don't know, three, what level?
[01:27:00] That's what Sarge taught me.
[01:27:01] Different ways to clear a jam.
[01:27:02] But in case something goes wrong,
[01:27:04] if nothing goes wrong, you actually don't need to drill.
[01:27:06] Really think, why do I need to drill
[01:27:08] if nothing ever goes wrong?
[01:27:09] Something's gonna go wrong eventually.
[01:27:10] So that's, I'm just saying,
[01:27:11] you did to martial arts, what they're doing in the army,
[01:27:13] I think is really good because we're getting ready for,
[01:27:16] in case something bad happens.
[01:27:17] Yeah.
[01:27:18] So all of this will straighten out your mindset.
[01:27:22] Yeah.
[01:27:23] It will straighten out your mindset.
[01:27:25] Cause if you're not used to this stuff,
[01:27:29] when somebody grabs you and you're not used to it,
[01:27:30] like somebody grabs me or you or you,
[01:27:32] like somebody grabs one of us,
[01:27:34] there's no mental hurdle of any kind
[01:27:38] to be prepared for combat in that moment.
[01:27:40] Most people, when they get grabbed,
[01:27:43] they haven't ever been grabbed before.
[01:27:45] And they have to, they have a giant mental hurdle clear
[01:27:48] before they can even respond in any way.
[01:27:51] Nevermind appropriately.
[01:27:52] And by the way, they're not gonna respond appropriately.
[01:27:53] They're gonna respond badly.
[01:27:55] So it's like, this has to change.
[01:28:01] And like you said, I mean, I think this,
[01:28:03] a lot of the stuff that's in this army combat is manual
[01:28:05] is suitable for law enforcement.
[01:28:09] And there's some people that freak out, by the way,
[01:28:11] when you say that,
[01:28:12] oh, you want the cops to be military, paramilitary?
[01:28:17] Yes, actually.
[01:28:18] I want them to be well trained.
[01:28:19] I want them to be ready for whatever's going to happen.
[01:28:23] Yeah.
[01:28:24] So there you go.
[01:28:29] Then they go through like how to sustain,
[01:28:31] how to get people sustained,
[01:28:33] where they can then keep up their training and stay good.
[01:28:38] Here's an everyday mission essential task list
[01:28:41] requiring use of combative skills.
[01:28:43] A compliant subject at a traffic control point
[01:28:46] suddenly becomes non-compliant.
[01:28:48] These are just like things to run, just scenarios to run.
[01:28:51] The battalion indicates that an intelligent subject
[01:28:53] must be captured during the search and seizure mission.
[01:28:56] The lead man in the search team encounters
[01:28:58] hostile opposition and has a weapons malfunction.
[01:29:01] Okay.
[01:29:02] Could that happen?
[01:29:03] Yes, absolutely.
[01:29:04] Three, when turning on the enemy,
[01:29:06] grab the soldier's weapon and pins him against the wall.
[01:29:09] Okay, could that happen?
[01:29:10] Yes, it could.
[01:29:11] In close quarters, an enemy attacks a soldier
[01:29:14] under zero illumination.
[01:29:15] Could that happen?
[01:29:16] Yes, it could.
[01:29:18] These are everyday situations that could happen.
[01:29:21] Well, yeah, they could happen in combat,
[01:29:22] but they could happen in law enforcement as well.
[01:29:25] And if you're not ready for them in any way,
[01:29:27] you're not going to know what to do
[01:29:29] and you're going to fall apart.
[01:29:31] And then you're going to have to go through
[01:29:33] what you're about to do and you're going to fall apart.
[01:29:36] And then you're going to end up doing something stupid.
[01:29:38] You know, I've heard, actually,
[01:29:42] we talked about this when I was in Puerto Rico
[01:29:43] working with a couple of military guys,
[01:29:45] that a lot of guys are used to these optics,
[01:29:48] like these, you know, BealTech,
[01:29:50] whatever these things on their carbines or their pistols.
[01:29:53] If that doesn't work one day or it goes out,
[01:29:55] they're not practiced with open sights.
[01:29:57] So the thing is like, I mean, if you rely upon
[01:30:00] that right there, specifically that,
[01:30:01] you don't have that available to you, like, you know,
[01:30:03] you're not keeping yourself up to date
[01:30:07] upon if something goes wrong, the drilling,
[01:30:09] I think it's really good.
[01:30:09] So if you're exactly caught and you can't see,
[01:30:13] if I can have someone, if I have a hold of someone,
[01:30:15] I don't need my eyes that much, to be honest.
[01:30:17] You don't really need your eyes.
[01:30:18] You can't even tell me.
[01:30:18] Five-year leg, I know what that is.
[01:30:20] Yeah, people compete when they're blind.
[01:30:21] Yeah, absolutely.
[01:30:22] There's some strong guys.
[01:30:23] Strong, blind guys.
[01:30:24] Ryan Job, I was trained with Ryan Job after he was blind.
[01:30:27] And it was like, you know,
[01:30:28] once you make contact with him, it's like, it's on.
[01:30:31] Yeah.
[01:30:34] Talks about, you know, a bunch of stuff
[01:30:36] with live training, ground sparring, situational sparring.
[01:30:40] Right, that's something that we've been doing
[01:30:41] for a long time.
[01:30:43] Soldier A begins in Soldier B's guard.
[01:30:46] They spar until Soldier A passes the guard,
[01:30:47] his swept or submitted.
[01:30:49] Reset, reset points, yeah.
[01:30:51] That's it.
[01:30:53] It's very straightforward things,
[01:30:54] but you could do that with every aspect,
[01:30:58] like any of these scenarios.
[01:31:00] You can run these scenarios, okay, it's dark,
[01:31:02] you grab my weapon, let's do it once,
[01:31:03] let's do it twice, let's do it three times,
[01:31:04] let's do it five times, what works, what doesn't work?
[01:31:08] These are like pieces of the puzzle
[01:31:09] that separate each piece as different,
[01:31:12] but in the end, you put it all together.
[01:31:13] So it's hard to do the puzzle unless you see,
[01:31:15] you know, what the picture is, you know,
[01:31:17] what you're gonna make.
[01:31:18] And if you don't understand the pieces,
[01:31:20] they make the frame with the corners first,
[01:31:21] and of course, and so I think it's a good way
[01:31:24] to have these situational, or I call it reset drills,
[01:31:26] or timing grade drills.
[01:31:28] It's really good to have.
[01:31:30] Yeah, and they go through, you know,
[01:31:32] everything from like, oh, how you spar on the ground,
[01:31:35] how you spar with takedowns, how you do,
[01:31:39] I guess we call it shootboxing,
[01:31:40] where you're like boxing gloves,
[01:31:42] but you're doing takedowns.
[01:31:44] What do they call that?
[01:31:45] They call it kickboxing with takedowns.
[01:31:47] Okay, cool.
[01:31:49] And then you still have to sometimes,
[01:31:51] as you said earlier, if we only do shootboxing,
[01:31:56] and we never do wrestling by itself,
[01:31:59] or we never advance to where we're doing a full sparring,
[01:32:06] then we're gonna miss something.
[01:32:08] So you have to mix it up to some extent,
[01:32:12] or it can be a problem.
[01:32:20] This is where it starts talking about
[01:32:21] basic ground fighting techniques.
[01:32:24] Basic ground fighting techniques build a funda...
[01:32:27] So all that, like we, now we're getting in,
[01:32:30] this is just talking about like how to run a program,
[01:32:32] how to set up a program, what the safety protocols are,
[01:32:34] and then it gets into the like the actual fighting.
[01:32:37] Basic ground fighting techniques
[01:32:38] build a fundamental understanding of dominant body positions,
[01:32:41] and should be one of the primary focuses
[01:32:43] before moving on to more advanced techniques.
[01:32:45] Basic fight strategy.
[01:32:46] When two untrained fighters meet,
[01:32:48] they instinctively fight using the universal fight plan.
[01:32:51] They pummel each other with their fists
[01:32:53] until one of them receives enough damage
[01:32:55] that they cannot fight back effectively.
[01:32:57] Most forms of martial arts training
[01:32:59] are designed to make fighters better
[01:33:00] at executing this strategy.
[01:33:02] However, this approach has two drawbacks.
[01:33:06] One, or both fighters are unarmed.
[01:33:09] Progress is solely dependent on the development of skill.
[01:33:14] Bigger, this is actually three drawbacks,
[01:33:16] bigger, stronger, and faster fighters
[01:33:18] have a natural advantage.
[01:33:20] Developing enough skill to overcome these advantages
[01:33:22] requires more time that can be dedicated
[01:33:24] during institutional training.
[01:33:25] Well, that's a little bit of a weird thing to say
[01:33:27] because we already talked about it,
[01:33:28] and they already talked about the fact
[01:33:29] that it's gonna take time.
[01:33:31] So you can't use that excuse here a little bit.
[01:33:35] The combatives program uses a more efficient approach.
[01:33:38] Fighting is taught in the context of strategy.
[01:33:39] The basic fight, basic techniques serve as an educating
[01:33:44] metaphor to teach the basic fight strategy.
[01:33:48] Fighters learn to defeat an opponent
[01:33:50] by controlling the elements of the fight.
[01:33:52] Range, angle, and level.
[01:33:55] The number one element of a fight is range.
[01:33:58] The combatives program has four phases,
[01:34:00] projectile, striking, clinching, grappling.
[01:34:06] This chapter involves the soldiers,
[01:34:08] provides soldiers with these basic techniques
[01:34:11] at basic levels against an unarmed enemy.
[01:34:14] According to circumstances of surrounded conflict,
[01:34:16] fighters can use these techniques
[01:34:17] to disable opponent or force the opponent to submit.
[01:34:21] You know what I'm talking about?
[01:34:22] These four different levels.
[01:34:23] I like that they're in the projectiles.
[01:34:25] That's actually something that's good.
[01:34:26] Boss room, when you say it,
[01:34:28] like you can throw a chair at someone.
[01:34:29] Yeah, for sure.
[01:34:30] And the perfect hand stuff.
[01:34:31] For sure.
[01:34:32] So one thing I noticed,
[01:34:34] muay thai, muay thai,
[01:34:35] which of course is a great, great style.
[01:34:37] Kickboxing, the kick with the shins,
[01:34:38] which that's how I kick.
[01:34:40] But if you have a boot on,
[01:34:42] if you block shin and shin with a shin,
[01:34:44] you have a strong shin, fine.
[01:34:45] But a boot hitting your shin,
[01:34:47] it's an issue, bro.
[01:34:48] It's an issue.
[01:34:49] So savant from France.
[01:34:50] They have these little, like wrestling,
[01:34:51] with little metal tips though.
[01:34:53] It's like, they're not pointy,
[01:34:54] but if you block muay thai,
[01:34:56] and they have those little shoes on with the metal tip,
[01:34:58] your shin is, it's a problem.
[01:34:59] So interesting, based on how you're dressed, a boot,
[01:35:03] if you block your shin,
[01:35:04] a boot kicking your shin is gonna be,
[01:35:05] let's say not a winning situation for you.
[01:35:08] So I'm just saying that since you get,
[01:35:09] we're looking at now because I'm sure they're not,
[01:35:12] they're thinking about having the uniform on,
[01:35:13] maybe body armor, the boots,
[01:35:16] maybe not a boot, maybe shoes,
[01:35:17] but different, it depends on how you're dressed.
[01:35:19] That's another thing too.
[01:35:20] However, I am on the side of muay thai.
[01:35:23] I'm on the side of, you know,
[01:35:24] there's even this style in Burma where they use head butts.
[01:35:26] It's crazy.
[01:35:27] It's pretty effective, by the way.
[01:35:28] You know, you don't have to throw a head butt.
[01:35:30] This kind of stuff.
[01:35:31] So I do think it's good to get the training with muay thai.
[01:35:33] When you got a helmet on.
[01:35:35] That's true.
[01:35:36] Cause then you can head butt somebody
[01:35:37] and it's like, no damage to you at all.
[01:35:39] And they won't like the result.
[01:35:40] It's a good times.
[01:35:41] Every sip yet.
[01:35:42] You know, so the way, you know,
[01:35:44] but if we spar with boots and you kick in the knees with boot,
[01:35:47] you know, it's gonna hurt,
[01:35:47] you're gonna get hurt real fast.
[01:35:48] Probably can't, it's gonna be more dangerous.
[01:35:50] We spar muay thai.
[01:35:51] You can learn how, in case someone had to do it
[01:35:53] on how to defend it.
[01:35:54] You get the training from muay thai with the tactics
[01:35:56] and let's say the open minded way,
[01:35:59] that maybe the arms showing here,
[01:36:01] and you could adapt tactics for something like that.
[01:36:03] I think it's good.
[01:36:04] I think it's good to add to projectiles.
[01:36:05] It's actually a good detail.
[01:36:06] Well, yeah.
[01:36:07] And by projectiles, they also be guns.
[01:36:09] Oh, okay.
[01:36:10] Yeah.
[01:36:11] That counts the projectile.
[01:36:11] You mean throwing the rifle with someone?
[01:36:13] Yeah.
[01:36:14] Um, here's some, here's some like the basic concepts.
[01:36:20] Create space.
[01:36:22] When in combat, a soldier's primary goal to be established,
[01:36:25] should be to establish space between him and his attacker.
[01:36:29] A soldier must create enough space
[01:36:30] to transition to his primary weapon.
[01:36:32] So there you go.
[01:36:34] Maintain space.
[01:36:35] When in combat, soldiers may be unable to create enough space
[01:36:39] and transition to their primary weapon.
[01:36:40] If unable to do so,
[01:36:41] they may need to maintain space to transition
[01:36:43] to their secondary weapon,
[01:36:46] or close the distance gained down at body position
[01:36:47] and finish the fight.
[01:36:49] So you want to create space,
[01:36:50] you want to maintain space,
[01:36:51] you might have to close the distance.
[01:36:52] When training soldiers,
[01:36:53] the primary goal should be instilling the courage
[01:36:56] to close the distance.
[01:36:58] The willingness to close with the enemy
[01:36:59] is a defining characteristic of a warrior,
[01:37:01] and the ability to do so against an aggressive opponent
[01:37:03] is the first step in using range to control a fight.
[01:37:07] This is something that I've talked about so much
[01:37:09] because you get that question all the time.
[01:37:10] Well, is Jiu Jitsu really the best thing for self-defense?
[01:37:12] And you've heard me give this explanation a thousand times.
[01:37:16] If I have space, I don't need any self-defense at all.
[01:37:18] I can get away from you and run away, and that's fine.
[01:37:20] It's when you grab me, that's when we have a problem.
[01:37:22] That's when I better know Jiu Jitsu.
[01:37:23] That's when I better know how to grapple at least.
[01:37:26] Gain, so they say close the distance.
[01:37:28] If you have to, if you can't create space,
[01:37:31] or you can't maintain space,
[01:37:32] the next thing is you actually go on the attack
[01:37:35] and you close the distance, you get in close,
[01:37:37] gain dominant position, and then finish the fight.
[01:37:40] That's the protocol that they give.
[01:37:44] And then it gets into ground grappling.
[01:37:47] Ground grappling provides a sound base.
[01:37:49] And by the way, I'm not reading the whole book, obviously,
[01:37:52] but it's skipping ahead to the ground grappling,
[01:37:56] basic techniques, standing base with a primary weapon,
[01:37:59] fighting stance, opposing grip, thumbs grip,
[01:38:02] wrestlers grip, thumb and thumbless grip,
[01:38:06] dominant body positions, rear mount,
[01:38:07] guard, side control.
[01:38:10] And then it starts giving basic positions, basic moves.
[01:38:13] And it goes through basic finishing moves,
[01:38:15] rear naked choke, cross collar choke from the mount and guard,
[01:38:18] bent arm bar from the mount and side control,
[01:38:20] straight arm bar from the mount,
[01:38:21] straight arm bar from the guard, guillotine choke.
[01:38:24] Blood chokes attack the blood supply to the brain,
[01:38:27] air choke support attack the air supply.
[01:38:29] These chokes will take longer to cause unconsciousness,
[01:38:32] gives joint locks, tapping procedures.
[01:38:38] That's always good.
[01:38:39] I think that's, I failed on that one.
[01:38:41] When I hurt John Dudley, my buddy John Dudley,
[01:38:45] he pushed me.
[01:38:46] No, I didn't give him like a pre-brief.
[01:38:48] Oh, okay.
[01:38:49] You know, like, hey dude, I just assumed
[01:38:52] that he would just tap.
[01:38:54] And it may or may not have helped
[01:38:55] because he was also kind of fired up, you know?
[01:38:57] John Dudley going, going, going to the Zercher mode,
[01:38:59] level nine.
[01:39:00] Oh yeah.
[01:39:02] And he's a great athlete in like 29 different categories.
[01:39:06] So when he was going ham, you know,
[01:39:09] but I didn't give him a good, a good brief.
[01:39:13] So make sure if you're teaching someone,
[01:39:14] you tell them how to tap.
[01:39:18] Then it talks about sweeps and takedowns.
[01:39:20] And, you know, one thing that's interesting
[01:39:23] is it starts giving like how to stand up in base,
[01:39:25] which we all know, but how do you stand up in base?
[01:39:27] Well, the weapon.
[01:39:28] Like that's also something to think about.
[01:39:30] So they address a lot of these things
[01:39:33] that take a little bit of thought
[01:39:36] about how you're going to do it.
[01:39:37] Cause you don't want to put down your weapon
[01:39:39] so you can stand up.
[01:39:40] No, you want to be able to,
[01:39:42] you want to be able to stand up
[01:39:43] while you're still holding your weapon.
[01:39:46] Fast forward a little bit again, you know,
[01:39:48] they talk about the fighting stance.
[01:39:49] And the fighting stance allows the soldier
[01:39:51] to assume an offensive posture conducive to attack
[01:39:54] while still being able to move and defend himself.
[01:39:56] The fighting stance is not only perform
[01:39:58] a platform for unarmed fighting,
[01:40:00] it can also be used for various weapons
[01:40:02] from close range contact weapons to projectile weapons.
[01:40:05] Just detail, man.
[01:40:06] The fighter keeps their chin tucked.
[01:40:08] The fighter looks just beneath their eyebrows
[01:40:10] at the opponent.
[01:40:11] The fighter uses a lead soldier
[01:40:11] to block the side of the face.
[01:40:13] Just squared away, you know, procedures.
[01:40:16] And even the whole book,
[01:40:19] the manual's got every conceivable thing.
[01:40:23] I mean, fast forward here, the mount.
[01:40:25] The mount allows a fighter to strike the opponent
[01:40:27] with punches while restricting the opponent's ability
[01:40:29] to deliver effective return punches.
[01:40:32] The mount provides the leverage to attack
[01:40:33] the opponent's upper body with strokes and joint attack.
[01:40:35] It goes through in detail all these different positions
[01:40:41] and then, you know, the guard.
[01:40:45] And all this stuff is the same stuff we say.
[01:40:47] A fighter never wants to be under their opponent.
[01:40:50] The guard enables them to defend themselves
[01:40:52] and transition off their back
[01:40:53] into a more advantageous position.
[01:40:55] But yeah, that's how it was.
[01:40:56] What are you gonna do with a street fight?
[01:40:57] Pull guard?
[01:40:58] No one says that.
[01:40:59] Not one person has ever said that in a serious way.
[01:41:02] They might have joked about it,
[01:41:03] but no one says pull guard in a fight.
[01:41:06] Guard means you made a mistake.
[01:41:09] You messed up.
[01:41:10] That's why you're in guard.
[01:41:13] A fighter never wants to be under their opponent.
[01:41:16] Right, exactly.
[01:41:17] We all agree with that.
[01:41:20] The guard allows the bottom fighter to exercise
[01:41:22] a certain amount of control over the range
[01:41:24] by pushing out or pulling in his opponent
[01:41:26] with his hips and legs.
[01:41:27] Yes.
[01:41:28] So,
[01:41:30] there you go.
[01:41:31] I mean, and it's got tons of detail in this manual.
[01:41:36] And by the way, obviously this manual is unclassified.
[01:41:38] You can find it on the internet.
[01:41:40] But it's there.
[01:41:41] And if you wanna look through it, go look through it.
[01:41:43] Learn, learn some stuff.
[01:41:44] Learn about intermediate ground fighting techniques.
[01:41:49] So then it starts talking about the intermittent fight.
[01:41:52] Their intermediate fight strategy involves adjusting
[01:41:54] the basic fight strategy taught in chapter three,
[01:41:56] to accommodate the unpredictable
[01:41:57] and very, very nature of operations.
[01:42:01] Though learning basic combative techniques
[01:42:03] taught in chapter three,
[01:42:05] soldiers are instilled with basic fight strategy.
[01:42:07] The easiest way to impact a soldier's fighting ability.
[01:42:10] However, soldiers often find themselves
[01:42:11] in unpredictable situations that span
[01:42:13] the spectrum of operations.
[01:42:14] Therefore, soldiers must be prepared
[01:42:15] to adjust their fight strategy to fit the situation
[01:42:18] rather than making every situation fit the preferred strategy.
[01:42:21] So this is telling you to learn more and be adaptable
[01:42:25] and try different scenarios.
[01:42:29] And now you start talking about intermediate mount
[01:42:32] and side control techniques.
[01:42:36] Posting on the arms, posting on the side,
[01:42:39] larger opponent pins.
[01:42:41] This is just getting into more advanced stuff.
[01:42:44] How to pass the guard, attacks from the mount,
[01:42:46] attacks from the rear.
[01:42:47] It's just, it just continues to grow your skill level
[01:42:52] and eventually gets to grappling with strikes.
[01:42:57] Right, so now, it says here,
[01:43:01] leaders should not make the mistake
[01:43:02] of practicing ground fighting techniques exclusively.
[01:43:06] Striking is an integral part of all types of fighting.
[01:43:08] Grappling with open and closed fist strikes,
[01:43:11] force the fighters to ensure
[01:43:12] that they have positive control over their opponent's hands
[01:43:14] which in turn can prevent the fighter's opponent
[01:43:17] from striking them in the face or using weapons.
[01:43:19] This is what's cool about Eddie Bravo's combat jujitsu.
[01:43:22] Right?
[01:43:23] Because there's some positions in jujitsu,
[01:43:26] they work in jujitsu, but if you did them in a fight,
[01:43:29] they're not gonna work so good
[01:43:30] when you're getting punched in the head.
[01:43:31] Especially the palm, not just a slap, palm strikes,
[01:43:34] like a punch.
[01:43:35] They're actually not as bone breaking
[01:43:36] as a punch with knuckles, but they sting more.
[01:43:40] The slaps hurt more than a punch.
[01:43:42] Oh, the slaps definitely hurt more than a punch.
[01:43:43] They don't damage your face as much.
[01:43:46] Like, like cut you, you know,
[01:43:48] break your cheekbone, things like that.
[01:43:50] Well, it's a different kind of pain,
[01:43:51] but I mean, getting punched is fine.
[01:43:53] The palm strike can, but that's,
[01:43:54] ooh, slap man, that's a slap.
[01:43:56] Slap down your chest, your back.
[01:43:58] Oh yeah, the slaps to the ribs,
[01:44:01] the slaps to the ribs is like a torture.
[01:44:03] Jocko myself, he does this many times.
[01:44:04] Like, remember, like, if we're having like one of those days,
[01:44:08] you start pulling the shirt up and bro,
[01:44:10] then we got back and forth, like, we're still bros,
[01:44:12] but we're still like, okay, slap, slap.
[01:44:14] There's like, I think at some point,
[01:44:16] let's just calm down now.
[01:44:18] That's not funny.
[01:44:19] There's an escalation that could occur at some times.
[01:44:21] And unfortunately for me,
[01:44:22] I'm usually getting the raw end of that escalation.
[01:44:24] That depends on the date.
[01:44:25] I have to hope for a piece out there.
[01:44:28] I remember one time when my kid,
[01:44:29] my son was probably like 12 maybe,
[01:44:35] and we were training and I had a bad ankle injury.
[01:44:39] Speaking of Sarge, Sarge shot a single on me
[01:44:44] and like I did something or whatever and it really hurt.
[01:44:51] I was one of the worst injuries I've had.
[01:44:53] And luckily it was Sarge and he like,
[01:44:55] as it was probably gonna break,
[01:44:57] he like released and like, whatever, moved his weight.
[01:45:01] But my ankle's really sprained.
[01:45:04] And so I'm rolling a couple of days later, of course,
[01:45:08] because that's what we're doing.
[01:45:08] I had like one of that, you know,
[01:45:10] the ankle braces that like lace up.
[01:45:13] They're super tight and they have like a,
[01:45:16] so I had one of those things on.
[01:45:17] So I'm rolling with my son and he's like 12.
[01:45:21] And you know, I like get side control
[01:45:24] or something like half guard, I'm in half guard.
[01:45:26] And I like pull his shirt up a little bit
[01:45:28] and I slap him right on the ribs, that painful spot.
[01:45:32] Yeah.
[01:45:33] And you can see he's trying to move.
[01:45:35] And he can't really, you can see it's like mad, right?
[01:45:38] And then you know, whatever,
[01:45:39] a transition to another position,
[01:45:40] he let him get up on top or whatever.
[01:45:43] He dives on a toehold.
[01:45:47] He dives on a toehold on my injured foot.
[01:45:51] And you know, quite frankly, I probably should have tapped.
[01:45:56] I probably should have tapped,
[01:45:58] but obviously there was no way I was tapping to my own son.
[01:46:02] So I like escape that.
[01:46:05] And this is the, I've told you this story before.
[01:46:07] So then I got across side and I was like,
[01:46:12] and I started, I did the paper cutter choke.
[01:46:16] Wiki?
[01:46:17] Yeah.
[01:46:18] And I go, I said something like,
[01:46:20] hey, I'm injured, you idiot.
[01:46:24] Do you want, don't, don't attack someone
[01:46:27] that's injured in their injured area and try to hurt them.
[01:46:31] Do you understand?
[01:46:32] Sorry, yes sir.
[01:46:33] No, he didn't answer it.
[01:46:35] He's just looking at me and I'm looking at him
[01:46:39] and I go, do you understand?
[01:46:40] And he's still pissed that I slapped him, right?
[01:46:43] So I started applying the choke
[01:46:47] and I'm applying it hard.
[01:46:48] And I'm like, do you understand?
[01:46:49] He's still just looking at me.
[01:46:50] I'm like, okay, I'm gonna kill him.
[01:46:53] But I'm like, okay, test of wills.
[01:46:54] He's gonna have to die.
[01:46:56] That's it.
[01:46:57] So I start, you know how you know
[01:46:58] that paper cutter choke, you go down,
[01:46:59] then you start going out.
[01:47:00] I was down and now I'm going out.
[01:47:03] And he's starting to turn red and purple
[01:47:05] and find he's like, I understand.
[01:47:06] I was like, what?
[01:47:07] He's like, I understand.
[01:47:08] And I was like, okay.
[01:47:09] And then we just kept trading, you know?
[01:47:11] But yeah, do.
[01:47:12] You had that coming to you by the way.
[01:47:14] Oh, I definitely had it coming to me.
[01:47:17] Although, yeah, I had it coming to me.
[01:47:20] There's a debate of principle for sure,
[01:47:22] but you had it coming to you.
[01:47:25] Wait, what?
[01:47:27] Why?
[01:47:28] The slap thing on the phone.
[01:47:29] The slap thing, even though the slap thing
[01:47:31] is still done in fun, right?
[01:47:34] There's still a level of fun to it.
[01:47:36] There's no fun about trying to hurt someone that's injured.
[01:47:39] Yeah.
[01:47:41] Yeah, but the argument could be made.
[01:47:43] Hey, look, I'm not your son.
[01:47:45] I'm not you, so I don't know.
[01:47:46] But maybe some of us didn't sign up for that fun that day.
[01:47:50] You see what I'm saying?
[01:47:52] That's good that it's fun for you.
[01:47:53] It really is.
[01:47:54] Congratulations.
[01:47:55] You know what though?
[01:47:56] You gotta learn to control those emotions a little bit.
[01:47:58] It's part of the process.
[01:47:59] It's part of the process.
[01:48:00] Remember when you were back at City Boxing,
[01:48:04] came back from wherever.
[01:48:04] You had like Tom, you had Grady Mack,
[01:48:06] you had, you know, you had all these guys in the man,
[01:48:08] like 10 seals, you had one Marine,
[01:48:10] who was the force we got?
[01:48:11] The H.
[01:48:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:48:13] And you got training, I was slapping them.
[01:48:15] Like because they were down with it,
[01:48:17] because they were getting ready for like deployment.
[01:48:18] There was like, and I was talking smack to them.
[01:48:21] I'm like, request permission to go back to base.
[01:48:25] Mission not accomplished.
[01:48:27] Like, no, say it.
[01:48:29] Mission scrubbed, request permission.
[01:48:31] Anyways, that was a game.
[01:48:32] But then again, there was just some fired up guys
[01:48:34] and it was like the game.
[01:48:35] So the average person, I wouldn't, you know,
[01:48:37] just to crack across the body.
[01:48:38] But the sun, yeah, injured foot, understood.
[01:48:42] What's your assessment?
[01:48:43] Echo says I'm wrong.
[01:48:46] It's kind of mutual, like you and I,
[01:48:48] we do it because we think it's funny,
[01:48:49] it's statistically funny.
[01:48:50] By the way, Jocko has his days,
[01:48:52] he makes me feel kind of ashamed sometimes.
[01:48:54] I understand.
[01:48:56] But I mean, it's a mutual thing.
[01:48:57] It's just different.
[01:48:58] I don't know why.
[01:48:59] I don't know for such a long time.
[01:49:00] We've always trained that way.
[01:49:01] We've always trained that way, for sure.
[01:49:02] Wrist, whatever.
[01:49:03] You know what, okay, so this is, I think this is true.
[01:49:06] You know, rattlesnakes, right?
[01:49:07] When they're like not full grown,
[01:49:10] when they bite, they say they're more kind of dangerous,
[01:49:12] right, because they can't control their venom.
[01:49:14] So consider your 12 year old kid, right?
[01:49:16] You're like, okay, we're going,
[01:49:18] we're going street level or whatever, right?
[01:49:19] Because there's such thing as street rules.
[01:49:22] So okay, we're going street rules.
[01:49:23] And that's what I would say the slap is.
[01:49:25] I mean, it's usually mutual and kind of understood
[01:49:29] in this way.
[01:49:29] But someone might misunderstood it
[01:49:30] and they just go hand-back like really hard.
[01:49:32] Exactly, you don't just do it to anybody.
[01:49:35] So, yeah, I'm not rolling like a random person in.
[01:49:37] Yeah, certainly.
[01:49:38] You think he is.
[01:49:39] Has to be your friend or your enemy.
[01:49:40] Friend or enemy.
[01:49:41] And why don't we do it to anybody?
[01:49:43] No, actually, you wouldn't even really slap,
[01:49:45] rib slap your enemy.
[01:49:48] That's sort of like don't move, right?
[01:49:50] This is just like, you know, general friendly harassment.
[01:49:53] Right, yeah, friendly harassment, exactly, right.
[01:49:56] So, but the reason you don't do it to like a stranger
[01:49:58] or something is like you don't know the reaction.
[01:50:01] They don't, they're not under that element of control
[01:50:03] that your friends are.
[01:50:04] Now, 12 year old kid who's to say where he's at mentally.
[01:50:08] Is he saying?
[01:50:09] Apparently.
[01:50:09] Apparently he's in the vengeance mode.
[01:50:11] He is like a little rattlesnake where he's like,
[01:50:13] okay, we were taking it to that level.
[01:50:14] We'll take it to that level.
[01:50:15] He didn't know though.
[01:50:16] He didn't know what that means as far as the translation
[01:50:18] to what he can do, you know?
[01:50:20] So he's just going for, what's he going for?
[01:50:21] He's going to put a little.
[01:50:22] Bro jumping on that toehold.
[01:50:23] Yeah, yeah, all day.
[01:50:24] And cranky.
[01:50:26] Like I said.
[01:50:27] Cranky.
[01:50:28] You had that coming to you, sir.
[01:50:31] I don't know, man.
[01:50:33] I guess, no, I see, you're probably right, man.
[01:50:36] Yeah.
[01:50:37] A toehold for anyone.
[01:50:38] But to me, that escalation, I guess, you know what it is?
[01:50:41] Part of it is for me, this was just like,
[01:50:44] a way to make things more fun.
[01:50:45] Yeah.
[01:50:46] I would actually agree with that.
[01:50:47] You know, like Dean, Dean, like there's a certain level of,
[01:50:51] if Dean and I get in that zone, there's a certain level of,
[01:50:54] it's just a way to make it a little bit more fun,
[01:50:56] a little bit more consequences.
[01:50:58] Yeah.
[01:50:59] The other day, training in charcoal.
[01:51:00] Like I was having a good day and I'm like,
[01:51:02] neon, we call it park bench.
[01:51:04] Remember park bench?
[01:51:05] So your shin is in the face.
[01:51:07] You can't move and I'm like, all right, sir,
[01:51:08] straighten your legs.
[01:51:09] Like I'm trying to make him like lie against the wall straight,
[01:51:12] but he won't let me do it.
[01:51:14] So you're bending, just like your back's on the wall,
[01:51:18] you're on your side and someone's shin is in your face
[01:51:20] and your stomach, you're just like, fuck man.
[01:51:22] It's called park bench.
[01:51:23] It's worse than the other stomach is a very demoralizing
[01:51:26] situation.
[01:51:27] Jocko did it back to me, of course, but yeah,
[01:51:29] it just makes it fun, you know?
[01:51:30] And it looks real bad too.
[01:51:31] Yeah, it looks pretty bad.
[01:51:32] It's called park bench.
[01:51:34] Humiliation levels high for that one.
[01:51:36] Yeah.
[01:51:37] When you're in the bottom, you're like,
[01:51:39] you feel like, I don't know why I'm here, bro.
[01:51:41] I made several mistakes too.
[01:51:43] Yeah.
[01:51:44] For anyone not aware, a toe hold is basically grabbing
[01:51:48] like your toe and doing that, but for your toe.
[01:51:51] And it's actually, your arm is more flexible
[01:51:52] than your ankle or your knee.
[01:51:54] So it's actually, it can't be a damaging move
[01:51:56] for anyone wondering what a toe hold is.
[01:51:58] Grabbing the toe, twisting the ankle,
[01:52:00] therefore the knee as well.
[01:52:02] For the record, I don't think necessarily
[01:52:05] that you were in the wrong.
[01:52:06] In fact, I think that your son was kind of technically
[01:52:10] in the wrong, but a little rattlesnake,
[01:52:12] you can't expect him to control,
[01:52:13] he did to know the line all definitely.
[01:52:15] Who was tactical, who was strategical?
[01:52:16] Which one was tactical and strategic?
[01:52:18] Was that a strategic?
[01:52:19] Strategic versus tactical.
[01:52:20] He's trying to make him to a tougher, better fighter.
[01:52:23] Yeah, technically, was it a good?
[01:52:27] Tactically, maybe I shouldn't have let him out.
[01:52:28] I'm a long lasting lesson.
[01:52:32] Imagine the thing that I will say is like,
[01:52:36] it surprised me, right?
[01:52:38] It surprised me that he dove on the toe hold.
[01:52:41] Yeah.
[01:52:42] Cause he had the weird combination
[01:52:45] of Dean Lister and Jeff Glover game.
[01:52:48] You know, cause he would train with Dean Lister
[01:52:51] and Jeff Glover, so he had these weird heel hooks
[01:52:52] and like toe holds and then he's like doing weird,
[01:52:55] flexible things.
[01:52:56] So anyways, go watch out for that stuff.
[01:52:58] There is this element too.
[01:53:00] Where I kind of went over this with you
[01:53:01] real briefly one time in our whole life where,
[01:53:05] okay, so, and Dean, you could probably understand this too.
[01:53:08] Okay, let's say we roll, right?
[01:53:09] And I, in my mind, I just know, I believe like,
[01:53:12] you're just so much better than me
[01:53:13] and we're rolling, I'm just trying to, you know,
[01:53:15] but at the end of the day,
[01:53:16] I know like you're just so much better than me.
[01:53:18] I'm 12 years old, or me and you're, you or whatever, right?
[01:53:21] Let's say, okay, you tapped me out, Dean,
[01:53:23] you tapped me out real quick and then I'm like,
[01:53:25] oh man, cool, and then I like act like I'm gonna walk away
[01:53:29] and then I jump on your back and we start rolling again.
[01:53:31] Right, just kind of like half joking,
[01:53:33] but we still go and roll or whatever.
[01:53:35] You kind of concede a little bit where it's like,
[01:53:37] okay, I see what's going on.
[01:53:38] Like we're in a real training scenario,
[01:53:40] we wouldn't do that, right?
[01:53:41] So, Dean's gonna escalate.
[01:53:43] Yeah, and he can escalate, he can figure it,
[01:53:45] but I'm saying that.
[01:53:45] Because what you did was an escalation, by the way.
[01:53:47] Yes, but it's half joking.
[01:53:48] You see what I'm saying?
[01:53:49] It's like, hey, what's not over there?
[01:53:52] And then you jump on it.
[01:53:52] Yeah, I do that all the time.
[01:53:53] Yes, yes, exactly.
[01:53:54] The time, yeah, exactly.
[01:53:56] Exactly right, so.
[01:53:57] Yeah.
[01:53:58] Now, see, there's a legitimate, like you escalated.
[01:54:03] If you just jumped to someone's back,
[01:54:04] even though you quote unquote or joking,
[01:54:06] you still got their back and now you're trying to choke them.
[01:54:08] What's funny is that's exactly what he said.
[01:54:10] You know what I'm saying?
[01:54:10] And he was like, you indicate, I forget your words,
[01:54:13] but you indicated that like, like, don't do that.
[01:54:16] Like, we're not trying, like.
[01:54:17] Oh, you mean you did it to me for real?
[01:54:19] Yeah, oh yeah, a big problem.
[01:54:20] I used to always do that kind of stuff to you.
[01:54:21] And then I was like, hey, bro, what did I say?
[01:54:24] Did I say something?
[01:54:25] That's weird.
[01:54:25] And when we actually talked about it, you're like,
[01:54:28] you, I forget your exact words,
[01:54:29] but you weren't down for that.
[01:54:31] It's like, it's not as that bad.
[01:54:33] You founded me, you called me out.
[01:54:36] Put it this way.
[01:54:37] I was surprised because it's not like you did anything.
[01:54:41] You know, it's not like you said, hey, don't, you know,
[01:54:42] don't do that or nothing.
[01:54:43] Cause you never said anything like that.
[01:54:44] But when you indicated, oh yeah, you're not down for that.
[01:54:46] I understood, but you have to understand,
[01:54:49] I wouldn't do that if we had a real competitive.
[01:54:51] It was like, you're so much better than me.
[01:54:53] So yeah, I'm gonna jump on your back.
[01:54:55] And I still don't expect to get the better,
[01:54:56] even if I jump on your back because you're so much,
[01:54:58] it's like that attitude, I think.
[01:55:00] So that could have been what your son
[01:55:02] had in his mind a little bit too though.
[01:55:04] Seems like-
[01:55:05] You're gonna go for it.
[01:55:05] Yeah, like, I mean, obviously Dean's not gonna do that.
[01:55:08] Dean will do that.
[01:55:10] If you go for your injured, you're hell yeah.
[01:55:11] No, no, no.
[01:55:16] There you go.
[01:55:17] There's some protocols.
[01:55:18] There's some etiquettes, right?
[01:55:19] etiquette.
[01:55:19] Sometimes gets violated.
[01:55:20] Sometimes it's grayers.
[01:55:21] I may, I'm probably wrong.
[01:55:22] Kid 12 should be nicer.
[01:55:24] Should've been a nicer dad.
[01:55:27] Sorry about that.
[01:55:27] Yeah, kid.
[01:55:31] Yeah, we talked about grappling with strikes and all that.
[01:55:33] It goes through some of those things.
[01:55:35] And then it gets into like advanced ground fighting
[01:55:38] techniques and North-South escapes and North-South.
[01:55:41] Like all those things, chain attacks
[01:55:44] and how everything's connected.
[01:55:45] So, so leg attacks, Dean Lister.
[01:55:48] This section covers the advanced leg attacks.
[01:55:50] These techniques are taught as a way to change
[01:55:53] the fighter's position into a submission.
[01:55:56] Although the techniques are advanced,
[01:55:57] they still present the same amount of hazard
[01:55:59] as attacks learned at lower levels.
[01:56:02] So we got some ideas behind that as well.
[01:56:06] Reading and opponents moves.
[01:56:09] I mean, this is just a thorough,
[01:56:11] a very thorough book about combatives.
[01:56:16] And they just did a good, great job with it.
[01:56:18] And a lot of the theories that are in here just cover
[01:56:24] what we know and they do it in a very professional way.
[01:56:28] Yeah.
[01:56:28] In a very thorough way.
[01:56:29] And the last thing that it talks about is competition
[01:56:33] and the spirit of competition, the competition principles.
[01:56:39] He says, this is an important, two things.
[01:56:41] We'll finish with this.
[01:56:42] Combatives techniques are too dangerous for the fighter.
[01:56:44] Combatives techniques are too dangerous for competition.
[01:56:47] Although many techniques are too dangerous
[01:56:49] for live competition, many benefits can be gained
[01:56:51] by competing even when using a limited set of techniques.
[01:56:54] So there are some things that are too dangerous.
[01:56:58] And then it says risks of competition
[01:57:00] outweigh the benefits.
[01:57:01] Many programs have failed because there was no motivation
[01:57:04] to train.
[01:57:05] Competitions are a useful tool to motivate both soldiers
[01:57:07] and unit leaders to emphasize combatives training.
[01:57:11] So competition, very important.
[01:57:15] And there you have it.
[01:57:19] Like I said, great document, outstanding job by the Army
[01:57:24] for moving in that direction.
[01:57:26] Absolutely incredible.
[01:57:27] Yeah.
[01:57:28] And the Marine Corps has the McMap.
[01:57:29] We could go through that.
[01:57:30] The Marine Corps, the Mars Large Program,
[01:57:32] the I Know Special Operations.
[01:57:33] While I know in the SEAL teams,
[01:57:34] we moved in that direction as well around the same,
[01:57:39] actually I don't know, time-wise,
[01:57:40] but we all end up in the same place.
[01:57:43] And you know the theory here is like you gotta compete,
[01:57:47] you gotta learn, you gotta test, you gotta get better.
[01:57:50] You know what I'm saying, keep it real.
[01:57:52] Yeah.
[01:57:53] You ever say that, Echo?
[01:57:54] You ever say, hey, keep it real?
[01:57:55] I say it from time to time, yes sir.
[01:57:57] Dean, you ever say keep it real?
[01:57:59] High school maybe.
[01:58:00] I actually say keep it real.
[01:58:02] Like almost, and I kinda just throw it out there.
[01:58:05] Like if I'm, you know, someone goes, hey, what's up?
[01:58:07] I'll be like, oh, you keeping it real?
[01:58:08] Like that?
[01:58:08] You know, kinda just whatever.
[01:58:10] Sure.
[01:58:10] Kind of a throw away comment.
[01:58:11] Sure.
[01:58:13] But I was thinking about it,
[01:58:15] it's actually a good attitude to have.
[01:58:18] With combatives, with fighting, with life, keep it real.
[01:58:22] And that's what I think this does, keep it real.
[01:58:24] Don't allow for the lies.
[01:58:27] The lies.
[01:58:28] You gotta test, you gotta learn, you gotta adapt,
[01:58:31] you gotta improve, then you gotta retest.
[01:58:33] And you can do that with fighting
[01:58:34] and you can do that with everything in life.
[01:58:36] And that's how we become better fighters
[01:58:38] and that's how we become better people.
[01:58:41] Yeah.
[01:58:42] So that's my recommendation, man.
[01:58:44] Train, get out there.
[01:58:48] Anything else on combatives?
[01:58:49] Dean List.
[01:58:50] Combatives.
[01:58:51] Well, we're looking at that fine balance of training.
[01:58:55] Something you can train, you can replicate over and over
[01:58:57] without getting really injured or hurt.
[01:59:01] With also including some realism
[01:59:04] as far as getting ready for the actual threat
[01:59:06] that you will face.
[01:59:07] Such as, by the way, if you grapple on concrete all the time,
[01:59:11] it's gonna suck.
[01:59:12] Now, you wanna be aware, for instance,
[01:59:13] one time actually I fell for some reason
[01:59:17] on the concrete with my hand, broke my hand
[01:59:20] because we have mats.
[01:59:22] So I actually, I know how to fight if it's on mats,
[01:59:24] but I made a mistake.
[01:59:26] I should open my hands at the right time.
[01:59:28] These are things that have to keep in mind,
[01:59:29] but then again, you wanna train on mats, right?
[01:59:32] So why not always train on concrete?
[01:59:35] Well, because your knees would be jacked up,
[01:59:36] you hurt your head, you're gonna break your elbow eventually,
[01:59:39] but you wanna be aware of that.
[01:59:42] One thing was one of Sergeant Knows him
[01:59:45] and all the guys in Puerto Rico when I was there
[01:59:46] for a few weeks after the hurricanes working.
[01:59:49] We're just delivering water, that's all.
[01:59:52] One guy, and you probably know him, I don't know his name,
[01:59:54] but the story is the guy was an ex-tier one, whatever.
[01:59:58] I don't know, I think a seal became a cop,
[02:00:01] but he was ranked top 10 in the world with shooting,
[02:00:03] but where your hands are here and you reach,
[02:00:05] it's a quick draw.
[02:00:06] The guy's ranked top 10 in the world,
[02:00:08] it's a quick draw where your hands are above,
[02:00:10] and then he got stuck up, he was off duty,
[02:00:13] so I actually pulled a gun on him, he went like this.
[02:00:17] Because he's so trained to do that, he still won.
[02:00:19] He drew on the draw, I mean, that's how fast this guy,
[02:00:22] he's still, you're not supposed to draw,
[02:00:24] someone's already considered dumb, this guy's too fast,
[02:00:27] so he actually went from here and still survived
[02:00:30] and the guy, I don't think he made it,
[02:00:32] the guy with the loaded gun, trying to rob him.
[02:00:35] But the thing is, that training of him being so fast
[02:00:37] is good, but he didn't need to do this.
[02:00:40] He's trained so much that you shoot from here,
[02:00:41] he still won, but that's a wasted movement,
[02:00:43] think about that, so he still won.
[02:00:45] So that right there, that kind of training,
[02:00:46] I think for a quick draw is good,
[02:00:48] but then again, don't put your hands up here.
[02:00:49] Maybe that actually played into the whole,
[02:00:51] okay, he's compliant, maybe it's actually good,
[02:00:53] but I'm saying, they were saying how he still survived
[02:00:56] because he was trained, so that was just,
[02:00:58] and you know the guy, I don't know his name,
[02:01:00] but that was Sarge and all the guys in there,
[02:01:01] like it's a tight community, so I think it's good
[02:01:04] to try that middle ground.
[02:01:05] We're looking for the middle ground,
[02:01:06] you want to replicate things,
[02:01:07] you want to be able to do it in a relatively safe environment,
[02:01:09] but always be prepared for what is going to happen
[02:01:12] potentially.
[02:01:13] That's why I like what the arm is doing,
[02:01:14] it's a guideline, there's some flexibility there,
[02:01:17] I think, of course, the lake locks.
[02:01:19] Did you know the story about the Russian?
[02:01:20] You know, actually, the first time I learned
[02:01:22] lake locks before, choke holds in a seminar,
[02:01:25] it's on Nikolay Baturin, he was a Soviet champion,
[02:01:28] Osombo, Oltatar was there, other Russians were teaching,
[02:01:31] they were saying like, the reason they prefer lake walkies
[02:01:35] because, you know, big in Russia, I'm with my wife,
[02:01:39] she's very attractive, and they go to a bar,
[02:01:41] strange man grabs her inappropriately,
[02:01:44] I'm very upset, I break his arm,
[02:01:45] now he goes, the vehicle gets Kalashnikov,
[02:01:47] he comes back and dead, I'm like, bro,
[02:01:49] I'm 18 or 12, man, I don't know, fuck.
[02:01:51] But imagine the scenario, the guy grabs my girl
[02:01:54] very inappropriately, I break his leg,
[02:01:56] takes a long time to go to the vehicle,
[02:01:57] I get Kalashnikov.
[02:01:58] There's always some kind of use for it,
[02:02:02] I'm like, it makes sense, you know what I'm saying?
[02:02:05] I'm already with my wife at home sleeping in bed.
[02:02:07] I was actually supposed to lake locks before chokes,
[02:02:11] believe it or not, so yeah, it's all good to have
[02:02:12] the open mind.
[02:02:13] Well, but chokes are part of Osombo as well.
[02:02:16] Combat Osombo, in USA, illegal because this is back
[02:02:20] in Stevensville all days, they thought choke holds,
[02:02:22] you die, you know, like, you know, so in sports Osombo,
[02:02:26] I think combat Osombo is not illegal,
[02:02:29] but back then it was, you can do straight arm lock,
[02:02:32] not even, you can do Kimura Osombo.
[02:02:34] Just straight arm lock and straight knee lock, right?
[02:02:36] If you have an arm lock and I stand on my feet,
[02:02:37] it's illegal submission now, restarting your feet.
[02:02:40] So that's an escape from a submission,
[02:02:42] just standing on your feet, if I stand on it,
[02:02:43] I have nothing but my feet are the only thing
[02:02:45] touching the ground, stop, all submissions are illegal.
[02:02:47] So yeah, just different sport.
[02:02:49] And at some point they probably had some reason for that.
[02:02:52] Like, if I pick you up and now I could drop you
[02:02:55] on your head.
[02:02:56] Therefore it's not gonna work anymore.
[02:02:58] When we actually know, you let that evolve
[02:03:00] a little bit further and now I'm gonna,
[02:03:03] when you start to pick me up, I'm gonna grab your ankle
[02:03:05] and I'll hold you and keep you down.
[02:03:06] So you need to let things evolve naturally.
[02:03:09] Rules don't help that usually.
[02:03:11] I agree, I agree.
[02:03:12] Yeah, well, I won two times national champion Osombo
[02:03:15] was like 19.
[02:03:16] And the third time I was gonna get third,
[02:03:17] I was gonna be three times, but then I got in the finals
[02:03:20] and the guy, he went, mate, he stood up.
[02:03:22] So it means he give up, he's a judo guy.
[02:03:24] Got his arm, ah, mate, that's illegal submission.
[02:03:28] And my feet were crossed around the neck.
[02:03:29] They go, it was almost choker with minus one point.
[02:03:31] So I got even one minus one to zero.
[02:03:33] So I lost, so I took second place one year, unfortunately.
[02:03:36] But that's okay.
[02:03:37] So you're two time champ and then one time second.
[02:03:39] Yeah, Sombos are tough sports, good.
[02:03:40] I like Sombos.
[02:03:41] Sombos awesome.
[02:03:42] So Russian, martial arts, very good sport.
[02:03:43] And the combat Sombos, really awesome too.
[02:03:45] Yeah, MMA with the jacket.
[02:03:47] MMA with the jacket.
[02:03:48] Yeah.
[02:03:49] I mean, look at Fedor.
[02:03:50] Fedor.
[02:03:51] Fedor was a Sombos champion.
[02:03:54] Yeah, combat Sombos.
[02:03:55] So was Khabib, you know, yeah, tough.
[02:03:58] Would you say Khabib's more of a wrestler?
[02:04:00] Yeah, yeah, but he's done judo Sombos.
[02:04:02] But yeah, his style is very much,
[02:04:04] he's very suited for Noi.
[02:04:06] Just smashing people.
[02:04:08] Smash. Smash, smash.
[02:04:09] He's a tough guy, tough guy.
[02:04:11] Oh, right on, awesome.
[02:04:12] All right, well, appreciate everyone for listening.
[02:04:15] Thank you.
[02:04:16] Choco, can I mention something real fast?
[02:04:17] Yeah, absolutely.
[02:04:18] So everyone looking to August 789, Costa Rica,
[02:04:21] we're running a jujitsu camp.
[02:04:24] And if you're interested in Instagram,
[02:04:25] interested in training, it's for all skill levels.
[02:04:29] Ron from BGJ, Hero BGJ Retreats is a good guy to contact.
[02:04:34] If anyone's interested in high level jujitsu
[02:04:37] for three or four days in Bitovo, Costa Rica,
[02:04:39] working your Spanish, your tan, and your leg locks.
[02:04:42] Hit it up.
[02:04:43] Right on.
[02:04:44] Hero camps in Costa Rica.
[02:04:45] Hopefully, I'll see y'all there.
[02:04:47] And you can post it on your Instagram as well.
[02:04:49] So that way people, when they hear this,
[02:04:51] they can follow the link or whatever.
[02:04:53] Absolutely.
[02:04:54] And go there and check that out.
[02:04:55] I mean, that sounds like a rough deal,
[02:04:57] going to Costa Rica and doing jujitsu.
[02:04:59] How long is it?
[02:05:00] It's three, it's four days.
[02:05:02] Four days, yeah.
[02:05:03] Ah, that sounds like a good time.
[02:05:05] I know, I know.
[02:05:06] When is it?
[02:05:07] August 789.
[02:05:08] So everyone rides the six, 789, and the tenth
[02:05:11] is like a free day.
[02:05:12] So it's like four days on there.
[02:05:14] Awesome, yeah, check that out.
[02:05:15] If you want to go learn some jujitsu from the Boogie Man.
[02:05:18] The Boogie Man.
[02:05:19] Yeah.
[02:05:20] Ah, the Boogie Man, check it out.
[02:05:22] Thanks for supporting the podcast.
[02:05:23] Go to jocofuel.com.
[02:05:25] If you want to get some of these drinks, by the way,
[02:05:28] which are freaking good to go.
[02:05:30] They taste delicious.
[02:05:32] Used to be, couldn't say that.
[02:05:34] Well, some of us could.
[02:05:35] Well, you'd be like, oh, they taste good.
[02:05:36] Now, different ball game.
[02:05:38] Yeah, you're reformulated to perfection, I think.
[02:05:42] Yeah, so get yourself some of that.
[02:05:46] That's the energy drink thing.
[02:05:51] The reason we made them, look, I was on deployment.
[02:05:53] We used to drink other brands of energy drinks
[02:05:56] that were filled with sugar.
[02:05:57] You drink too many of those things?
[02:05:58] Oh, yeah.
[02:05:59] Yeah, you got like, uh.
[02:05:59] For sure.
[02:06:00] And you feel awful.
[02:06:01] It's even worse, not worse than drinking, but I mean.
[02:06:03] It's not.
[02:06:04] It's horrible for me.
[02:06:05] Yeah, it's bad.
[02:06:05] And so that's what happened on deployment.
[02:06:07] It would be like that.
[02:06:08] And that's why when at Jocofuel, it was like, hey,
[02:06:12] do you, Brian asked me, he's like,
[02:06:13] do you want to do an energy drink?
[02:06:15] And I was like, I would only want to do that
[02:06:17] if it was possible to make them actually good for you.
[02:06:19] Yeah.
[02:06:20] And then he was like, let me come up with a formula.
[02:06:22] Just start with your cranberry white tea.
[02:06:23] Is that how it started?
[02:06:24] Yeah, that's how it started.
[02:06:25] Chug with his white cranberry.
[02:06:26] Pomegranate.
[02:06:26] Pomegranate.
[02:06:27] Pomegranate white tea.
[02:06:28] What'd you say?
[02:06:29] Chai?
[02:06:29] Is that what we're saying?
[02:06:31] Cherry.
[02:06:32] White cherry.
[02:06:32] You say cranberry.
[02:06:33] OK.
[02:06:34] I don't know.
[02:06:35] Pomegranate.
[02:06:36] That was way off.
[02:06:37] Well, pomegranate's not as obvious.
[02:06:38] OK, yeah, that's true.
[02:06:39] I got you, I got you, I got you, I got you.
[02:06:42] Yeah, but there is a benefit.
[02:06:43] There's times when you need energy.
[02:06:45] Yeah.
[02:06:45] So you might as well get it.
[02:06:46] And you might as well not have a bunch of sugar in there
[02:06:48] and have an overloaded caffeine that
[02:06:49] makes you jittery and crazy.
[02:06:52] Just get something that's smooth, good, clean energy
[02:06:55] good for you.
[02:06:56] That's a Jocoh Discipline Go, jocohuil.com.
[02:06:59] You can get it at Wawa.
[02:07:00] You can get it at Vitamin Shop.
[02:07:02] You can get it at HEB down in Texas.
[02:07:04] A bunch of, we're spreading.
[02:07:06] I need to get a list.
[02:07:07] I need to get a list of all the places you can get jocohuil.
[02:07:10] So there you go.
[02:07:11] Gorge D. USA.
[02:07:12] You have demand for it in Brazil now.
[02:07:13] I know.
[02:07:14] I know.
[02:07:15] And Brazil.
[02:07:16] We got it down in Australia too.
[02:07:18] Oh, yeah.
[02:07:18] There's, we have a distributor down in Australia.
[02:07:21] So that's going forward.
[02:07:23] So yeah, we're spreading because it's good.
[02:07:27] The milk is good.
[02:07:29] The joint warfare is good.
[02:07:30] The super crills, so it's all good.
[02:07:32] And that's what people kind of know now.
[02:07:35] Like we're making the good stuff.
[02:07:37] We're making the goods.
[02:07:39] Get yourself some of that.
[02:07:40] originusa.com.
[02:07:41] Making geese.
[02:07:42] Jujitsu geese.
[02:07:43] You want to train that Jujitsu gi.
[02:07:46] You want to train that Jujitsu gi because it's going to make
[02:07:49] your all your game better.
[02:07:51] Gee, no gi.
[02:07:52] If you do gi, it's going to get better.
[02:07:55] I think your defense gets better when you wear.
[02:07:58] Because you're stuck more.
[02:07:59] Because you're stuck more.
[02:08:01] Your offense gets better when you don't have a gi on
[02:08:03] because you have to do it really tight.
[02:08:06] You have to keep advancing more with no gi because people
[02:08:09] slip out easier.
[02:08:11] You should get a gi that's made in America.
[02:08:14] Not by slave labor, but made by hardworking Americans.
[02:08:17] That's my recommendation.
[02:08:18] originusa.com.
[02:08:19] We've got some Hunt gear on the way.
[02:08:22] Actually, what's today?
[02:08:23] That should be hitting my.
[02:08:25] I should be getting some, the first production stuff
[02:08:27] coming soon.
[02:08:28] Joco, can you make a gi that's just like sandpaper?
[02:08:31] Like a sandpaper gi?
[02:08:32] I want to get really good.
[02:08:34] Really good at escaping submissions.
[02:08:35] No.
[02:08:37] Because you're not slipping on that.
[02:08:38] The origin geese are so comfortable.
[02:08:40] They're so good.
[02:08:41] They're a different thing.
[02:08:42] Spoiled.
[02:08:43] We are spoiled now.
[02:08:44] Yeah, they are spoiled.
[02:08:45] My first Jiu-Jitsu geese were like,
[02:08:47] Bloody.
[02:08:47] Nasty.
[02:08:48] Bloody.
[02:08:49] Awful to wear.
[02:08:51] So don't do that.
[02:08:52] Go to originusa.com.
[02:08:53] Get yourself some jeans, boots, Hunt gear, Jiu-Jitsu gear.
[02:08:57] We got it.
[02:08:58] We got you covered.
[02:08:58] Made in America.
[02:08:59] All of it.
[02:09:00] It's true.
[02:09:00] Good stuff.
[02:09:01] To the bone.
[02:09:02] Speaking of apparel, Joco is a store as well.
[02:09:04] It's called Joco Store.
[02:09:06] Dean Lister has his own shirt.
[02:09:07] Yeah, yeah, we're going to have this.
[02:09:08] Is it live?
[02:09:09] It's been live.
[02:09:11] Actually, we haven't really like.
[02:09:12] This one that says foot yet.
[02:09:14] OK, so it's a take off on the good shirt.
[02:09:17] I showed up at the, people were like, what the?
[02:09:20] It started off with the good shirt, which had my head on it.
[02:09:24] And then the echo shirt, which said dang, which had your head
[02:09:28] on it, which I designed.
[02:09:30] And then who designed your shirt?
[02:09:32] D.M.
[02:09:32] I came up with just, I did it like in 20 minutes.
[02:09:34] Just a joke.
[02:09:35] I wore it to the park.
[02:09:36] And he was like, oh, I would like it all.
[02:09:39] So if you don't know, Dean Lister is notorious and famous
[02:09:43] for changing the realm of jujitsu by attacking the feet
[02:09:49] and the legs and the knees.
[02:09:51] And so he made a shirt with his head on it.
[02:09:52] We made a shirt with his head on it.
[02:09:54] And instead of saying good, this is foot.
[02:09:58] Same style.
[02:09:58] It actually came out really, really good.
[02:10:02] Also, yeah, some new stuff on there.
[02:10:04] Discipline equals freedom.
[02:10:05] Standard issue.
[02:10:06] Standard issue.
[02:10:07] Many color ways.
[02:10:08] Look at you with the big words.
[02:10:10] You talk to me like I'm talking to Pete Roberts over here,
[02:10:12] talking about color ways and whatnot.
[02:10:15] Hey, you taught me it.
[02:10:15] So yeah, I'm going to roll it.
[02:10:16] Did I actually teach you that?
[02:10:17] You knew that.
[02:10:19] It sounded familiar, but you're the one who said color ways
[02:10:21] and explained it.
[02:10:22] I was like, OK.
[02:10:24] I might have heard it before, but I've never used it
[02:10:26] till just now.
[02:10:27] Thanks.
[02:10:27] That's really dipping your toes into the fashion industry
[02:10:30] when you start saying color ways.
[02:10:32] But color ways I think can be used to describe like cars
[02:10:37] or like anything.
[02:10:39] Like the scheme.
[02:10:40] Anything that could be made in multiple colors.
[02:10:42] I believe in the industry, they use the term color ways.
[02:10:48] Like sneakers.
[02:10:49] Sneakers.
[02:10:50] I think that's how I know it from sneakers.
[02:10:52] Someone's talking about a sneaker professional who was like,
[02:10:55] yeah, we got to offer these different color ways.
[02:10:57] And I said, OK.
[02:10:58] Little combos of colors.
[02:11:00] There you go.
[02:11:00] Yeah.
[02:11:01] Well, there you go.
[02:11:01] We got color ways.
[02:11:02] But anyway, yes.
[02:11:03] Call it the standard issue.
[02:11:04] Discipline equals freedom.
[02:11:05] Shirt.
[02:11:06] It's good.
[02:11:06] It's new.
[02:11:08] I didn't blow it up yet.
[02:11:09] But you know.
[02:11:09] All right.
[02:11:10] So you can check that out.
[02:11:11] Also, we got the shirt locker, which
[02:11:12] is a subscription situation.
[02:11:14] If you didn't know, new designs.
[02:11:15] Every month you get a new shirt, a new design.
[02:11:18] A little bit more creative.
[02:11:20] That's what I'm not at right now.
[02:11:21] You haven't advanced.
[02:11:23] You haven't gotten very creative on your creative description
[02:11:25] to be creative yet.
[02:11:26] You know why?
[02:11:26] Because all the creativity goes into the designs.
[02:11:28] You see what I'm saying?
[02:11:29] Not the descriptions of the designs.
[02:11:30] They'd be like a meta description.
[02:11:32] Either way, they're good.
[02:11:34] Great feedback on that one.
[02:11:35] So check that out at jockelstore.com.
[02:11:39] All right.
[02:11:40] Thanks, everybody.
[02:11:40] Subscribe to the podcast.
[02:11:41] Go to jockelwonderground.com.
[02:11:43] Here's some underground podcasts.
[02:11:46] Check out YouTube, where I'm the assistant director.
[02:11:48] One of the best, apparently, one of the best out there.
[02:11:51] The best assistant director.
[02:11:53] Just keeping Ego Charles tight on stuff.
[02:11:56] Psychological warfare.
[02:11:56] Flipsidecanvas.com.
[02:11:58] Dakota Meyer making cool stuff to hang on the walls.
[02:12:00] I read a bunch of books.
[02:12:01] Read them if you want.
[02:12:03] Escalonfront.com.
[02:12:06] Leadership consultancy.
[02:12:07] That's what we do.
[02:12:08] We solve problems through leadership.
[02:12:12] So if you want help inside your organization,
[02:12:13] go to escalonfront.com for details.
[02:12:16] Next up is Atlanta.
[02:12:18] October 12th through the 14th, the muster.
[02:12:22] It's going to sell out.
[02:12:23] They all do.
[02:12:24] So we'll see you there.
[02:12:25] Also, we have an online training academy.
[02:12:27] Just like Jiu Jitsu.
[02:12:28] You're not going to get good at fighting in one day or one
[02:12:33] week.
[02:12:34] You've got to do it all the time.
[02:12:35] That's why we made the Academy Extreme Ownership Academy,
[02:12:37] extremeownership.com.
[02:12:39] Come and learn how to lead and live.
[02:12:43] That's what it's going to do for you.
[02:12:44] And if you want to help out service members,
[02:12:46] active and retired, their families, Gold Star families,
[02:12:48] check out Mark Lee's mom, Mama Lee.
[02:12:50] She's got a charity organization.
[02:12:53] It does outstanding work supporting our warriors.
[02:12:57] Yep.
[02:12:58] And if you want to help her out or you want to get involved,
[02:13:01] go to americasamightywarriors.org.
[02:13:04] Also, check out Micah.
[02:13:05] Micah Fink.
[02:13:06] He's got heroesandhorses.org.
[02:13:09] Just got out of the field, I think, today.
[02:13:12] A bunch of dudes been out in the field for 41 days,
[02:13:14] riding horses, sitting in cold water, eating raw meat.
[02:13:18] Just getting back, back to it.
[02:13:21] And so check that one out.
[02:13:23] And if you want to check out Dean, Dean's on the gram,
[02:13:27] on the Instagram.
[02:13:28] He's at Dean Lister, BJJ.
[02:13:31] That's right.
[02:13:32] I cannot be held accountable for some of the things
[02:13:35] that he posts.
[02:13:38] I'd like to cross some drama.
[02:13:39] You go to some dark places in weird times.
[02:13:42] So if you wake up in the morning and there's
[02:13:44] posts from Dean Lister at 3 o'clock in the morning,
[02:13:47] hey, what's that?
[02:13:49] Be advised, right?
[02:13:50] Be advised.
[02:13:52] It's random.
[02:13:52] You might be offended.
[02:13:54] You might be disgusted.
[02:13:55] Very possible, yeah.
[02:13:56] Man, he sent me one the other day.
[02:13:58] Was that a post from Instagram?
[02:13:59] The guy getting cut in the neck?
[02:14:01] Oh, that was sent to me.
[02:14:03] Yeah, I mean, it was like a horrible scene of a guy.
[02:14:08] It looks like your typical couple drunk dude,
[02:14:11] like three or four drunk guys, going
[02:14:13] to fight another three or four drunk guys,
[02:14:15] and they're talking smack to each other.
[02:14:17] And then one of the guys pulls out a knife in that way,
[02:14:20] like, oh, I've got a knife out.
[02:14:22] I better back off.
[02:14:23] And the other guy's sort of like, well,
[02:14:24] you wouldn't do anything anyways.
[02:14:25] And it just sort of seems like this kind of innocent.
[02:14:27] It's crazy.
[02:14:28] I mean, as innocent as it could be pulling out a knife,
[02:14:30] it was that innocent.
[02:14:31] That's all it is.
[02:14:33] I'm saying, it didn't look like the intent was
[02:14:36] we're about to murder somebody.
[02:14:38] And the one dude that doesn't have a knife
[02:14:40] comes kind of like walking over like, oh,
[02:14:42] what are you going to do?
[02:14:42] Cut me?
[02:14:43] With that kind of look on his face,
[02:14:44] but not expecting anything to happen?
[02:14:46] And in a millisecond, in a millisecond,
[02:14:50] the dude like swings at him with the knife and cuts his throat.
[02:14:53] And the dude is dead in 10 seconds.
[02:14:55] He passes out in five seconds, and he's probably dead another.
[02:14:59] So another reason, don't get in street fights.
[02:15:03] Don't get in street fights.
[02:15:04] They're stupid.
[02:15:05] You get stabbed in the neck.
[02:15:06] You could break your hand, whatever.
[02:15:08] Anything in between.
[02:15:10] So don't do that.
[02:15:11] But if you want to check out Dean Lister on Instagram,
[02:15:13] there he is, Dean Lister, BJJ.
[02:15:16] On the Twitter, on the gram, on Facebook,
[02:15:18] I'm on there as well.
[02:15:20] Echo's on there.
[02:15:20] Echo's at Echo Charles.
[02:15:21] I'm at Jocko-Willink.
[02:15:22] Watch out for the algorithm, by the way.
[02:15:24] Because I think I'm going to grab you.
[02:15:25] It's going to waste an hour of your day.
[02:15:28] You're going to take an hour from you.
[02:15:29] Imagine that.
[02:15:30] A monster that came in every day and took an hour from you.
[02:15:33] Or two hours from you.
[02:15:34] Can't get it back.
[02:15:35] That's the algorithm monster that's going to get you.
[02:15:38] So that's it.
[02:15:40] Thanks to all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines
[02:15:43] who continue to find ways to fight better in every respect.
[02:15:46] Thanks again to Matt Larson for driving this initiative
[02:15:49] in the Army.
[02:15:49] I know there's, like I said, I know.
[02:15:50] I'm sure there's a bunch of other people that helped out.
[02:15:52] I know that he was leading the charge.
[02:15:54] So salute to him.
[02:15:56] And the rest of the military personnel
[02:15:59] that are out there putting these skills to the test
[02:16:01] on the battlefields, thanks for what you do.
[02:16:03] Also, thanks to police and law enforcement.
[02:16:07] Do what you can to get out there and train.
[02:16:10] You need it.
[02:16:11] We need it.
[02:16:13] Also, firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers,
[02:16:16] correctional officers, border patrol, secret service.
[02:16:18] All the first responders, thank you
[02:16:20] for keeping us safe here in our own country.
[02:16:24] And everyone out there, go train.
[02:16:29] Train whatever you can.
[02:16:30] Train wrestling, train boxing, jujitsu, moitai, train judo,
[02:16:34] and sombo, and train with guns and knives and bow and arrow.
[02:16:38] And test and learn and adjust and get better.
[02:16:41] And it will make you better in every aspect of life.
[02:16:45] Just go train.
[02:16:49] And until next time, this is Dean and Echo and Jaco.
[02:16:54] Thanks again.