Jocko Podcast 335: You Got One Shot at This Gig, So Go Out and Live. W/ Lance Mann.

2022-05-27T20:49:27Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:05:51 - Lance Mann. How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Jocko Store Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com Jocko Fuel: https://jockofuel.com Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Echelon Front: https://www.echelonfront.com Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

You know, I look back and was like, I'm like, apparently he just never wears a wet suit when surfing and stuff, which is, you know, this dude is, you know, with all like cold, cold immersion, you know, I have an ice bath, you know, taking a, he's just going surfing at two hours with no wet suit, which by the way, is cold in Southern California. You know, like when I got in the teams, you were going to get an up-toon, you're going to do a work-up, you were going to go on deployment, you're going to get done with that deployment, and the first couple to point, well, actually the first, uh, second, third, and fifth deployment, I think, it will all shit board for me. It seems strange, uh, that they're really, overall these years, they've never been able to figure out who's going to make it and who's not going to make it and it doesn't matter if you were, of division one wrestler or division one water polar player, you might quit and you, and you might make it, you could be a, you know, person that, like, doesn't know how to swim like you're by there. I knew I knew I had team at roots, but no one, you know, I was like, well, maybe someone is going to be like, hey, you guys are all like, are you guys not sure what he was known and ever said that to me? And I ended up going to two-lane university in New Orleans, and there was a, you know, there was a set of, you know, when you're religious, you know, there's saying, you know, he got has a plan for you. And I, I think I just, uh, the way I operated it was probably just, uh, on my gut, you know, and I'd see guys come into training and, and you could tell, uh, is this, this guy's going to make it or not. So, uh, and I remember one line in it, and it, um, I didn't, it said that I, something like this, a, uh, a frogman on the beach in his swim trunks with his, uh, K bar in his hand, uh, is one of the deadliest weapons in the military, something like that. I'm, I, I feel like I sound like I'm being condescending when I call the guys kind of, whatever behind me, not right behind me, but you know, like 10 years, 15 years behind me and the teams, that's sort of the next generation. The ones that are determined and that are really, it's like probably like being a coach, you know, it's like, I, I know my son played a water poll. And yeah, he, you know, like, swapping, you know, and he would, he liked a drink a lot too, and boy, after, you know, it were some cocktail party or something. And so Bill Robinson shows up, and, uh, he took one look at me for some reason, and, uh, he said, I don't know how, I don't know if you're going to do very well in the teams. Were you guys deploying like that or, we, when you got put in your platoon, did you say, okay, on this date, you're going to go on deployment, you're going to go to the South Pacific, or you're going to go to Southeast Asia on a ship or anything like that? You know, and, you know, a lot of, and, you know, I could have run into some guys who knew, oh, man, you're going to. And then once you hit like 50 ish, you kind of are like, okay, you're kind of like, like, retires and the destiny is already known. And, uh, I think I, you could, I probably would, I remember thinking that about, I can't think of any specific case, but I would remember kind of making a judgment based on what I saw, uh, of their performance, you know, in the training. I, I, I really, from what I know about coffee, I expect to know a lot more from now on, you know, but, uh, I, the, the, the components sound good. But this new CO was a guy who was a naval academy grad, and, uh, he was coming to the teams, you know, and he said, kind of, a naval academy guy going to run Macails Navy, are you kidding me? So I told her to get dressed up and whatever, like, you know, I put on like a shirt, you know, because back in the day, it was hard to get her shirt on. And yeah, your baseball team might have 13 guys on it, you know, and that's the way it was growing up and, you know, like a new Jersey in the town outside of New York City. And, uh, they, uh, you know, like I said, when I first pulled in there and those cars with the boards hanging out and everything were kind of just such a, so compelling. You're a hard time convincing me that you're a good person when you're like, oh, yeah, well, I know much of kids, but I didn't get any of this life-changing book that's going to help them in every way. And so, um, it, uh, so that we got, and, you know, because, like I said, the guys are artistic as hell, he designed the coffee bag for it and everything. And we're, uh, we don't, we're not going to buy, like, you know, he's a soul, uh, distributor. So it's like different, you know, so it can as it contrast to whatever, when he was like Outrigger, you know, the Outrigger, but now Outrigger is everywhere. And, uh, I think, and as you, and the passage that you read that, there is a spirit of, uh, you know what, I'm, I'm in the military, I'm part of a group, but I'm, my own man, I'm, I'm, I'm still who I am, and I'm independent, and you're, you're loyal to your soul, your loyal to, uh, what you really want to do. And so, waiting how Charlie and I, you know, when I go to Rhodes Grands, I'll take a picture and send it to him and, and that's one thing good about these damn iPhones, you know, you can communicate boom when you want to, you know. That that assessment in 1955, I feel like I know half those guys that if talking about, like these are the guys I grew up with in the teams. And, uh, and for some reason, uh, I think, I think he was right about, you know, I mean, I didn't give everybody real-enless that that was, that was a mistake, it was horrible mistake. Did you guys like know that it was kind of like has the team get? And, and then Doug, and I, we were talking, and, um, we, uh, actually, um, I got involved with, with Doug, um, my son, who, and then this guy Sam, uh, Blair down in Louisiana, uh, who was in the teams and then moved to Louisiana. And, and that, and it up, not being anything really, but they, everybody loaded up on, uh, uh, APD, I think it's, uh, what we traveled in, and then, uh, they just did PT and they got down to the canal and then turned around and came back because the crisis was over. And then, um, we got done with one of those, uh, during those two weeks, we got a lot of briefing from guys that were in Vietnam and they would, uh, tell us what was going on. And so there was, uh, in your, so, uh, they, um, but, you know, again, you know, we don't have the phone.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 335 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willing. Good evening, I go. Good evening.
[00:00:09] When the Navy's academics had arrived in 1955 to observe UDT training,
[00:00:16] their purpose had been to validate the course's individual selection tests, the soft sand runs, the ocean swims,
[00:00:24] the harassment of hell week and short of invalidating any of those to develop what they called realistic selection standards,
[00:00:33] that would reduce the Navy, what the Navy admitted was the course's excessive attrition.
[00:00:40] Subjecting students to a battery of personality tests and classifying their individual traits, age, education, intelligence, and so on,
[00:00:48] the academics hoped not only to predict a candidate's likelihood of success in training, but also his success in an actual underwater demolition team.
[00:00:57] In the course of these assessments, they learned that students below the age of 21 were 8% more likely to fail.
[00:01:05] Roughly the same rate as high school dropouts, while students from broken homes were just as likely to graduate as anyone else.
[00:01:13] Based on the number of times a student had voluntarily visited the dispensary, assessors determined that a candidate in moderate health
[00:01:22] who, quote, minimized the psychological importance of pain, fatigue, and intense discomfort,
[00:01:28] stood a much higher chance of success than, quote, the most physically fit who were overly concerned about their injuries.
[00:01:37] The least common traits among successful frog men seemed to be restraint, thoughtfulness, sociability, and cautiousness.
[00:01:48] The most common were responsibility, emotional stability, original thinking, objectivity, and most of all, masculinity.
[00:02:01] Later studies had gone on to test a variety of variables, including the benefits of wheat, German, and a student's diet, which proved particularly negligible,
[00:02:10] and a series of raw-shaked tests and psychiatric interviews to determine the effect of sexuality on a candidate's successor failure.
[00:02:19] Successful frogman said the sex report's author appeared to require this specific rather masculine and adventurous occupation with all itself destructive and massacistic implications,
[00:02:32] because, and this was just the author's speculation of their magical attraction to the depth of the sea and the security of the womb, and an unconscious motivation to prove their masculinity, coupled with a fear of involvement with women.
[00:02:50] Setting aside the psychoanalysts tendency to project their own insecurities onto their subject, the Navy had not been able to argue with the UDT's results.
[00:03:00] I have never met a group of more self-reliant, hell for leather characters, wrote reporter Bill Stapleton, after accompanying a UDT to St. Thomas in the Virgin Islands in 1955.
[00:03:13] Besides their typical reconnaissance exercises, submarine lockouts, and tests with minibulled miniture submersibles, the frogman had also salvaged a 50-foot yacht from a reef, twisted the tails of passing sharks,
[00:03:27] and when an American sailor had disappeared into a harbor on a moonless night, had commended to truck, roared to the wreath's edge, and as if they had been scouting the contours of an enemy beach dove online until they found the drown man.
[00:03:41] In their free time, they spearfished, drank on untold amounts of beer, erected beach-side bonfires, and an overflowing pots of sea water and vinegar, boiled lobsters, and astonished the superstitious natives by broiling barracuda stakes.
[00:03:59] UE Barracuda Barracuda E.U. they had said, promises reply to frogman, nothing but promises. So exclusive were the UDT said one observer that even rank meant nothing to them.
[00:04:14] When seen in their standard swim trunks and knife belts surrounded by charts and diving equipment and asked by passerby's, if they were indeed in the navy, the frogman would invariably reply regardless of the asker's rank.
[00:04:30] Nope, we're all in UDT.
[00:04:38] So that right there is an excerpt from an incredible book, the book is called by Water Beneath the Waves. It's written by a former seal named Ben Milligan, and it's an outstanding history of where the seal teams come from.
[00:04:52] But that little excerpt describing what a UDT man was like back in the day that assessment is from 1955. So at that time there were no seal teams, but the spirit, the soul of the frogman was there in full form, and this is where the modern day seals come from. Those were roots.
[00:05:16] Those were our forefathers, and it is an honor to have one of those old school frogmen with us today to tell us about his experiences in the underwater demolition teams.
[00:05:28] What he learned there and how he applied those lessons throughout the rest of his life. His name is Lance Man, a UDT frogman, a waterman, a surfer, an entrepreneur, a lifeguard, and a damn good example of how to live.
[00:05:45] Lance, thank you for joining us. Well, thank you for giving me the opportunity to be here. Appreciate it.
[00:05:55] That that assessment in 1955, I feel like I know half those guys that if talking about, like these are the guys I grew up with in the teams.
[00:06:05] And pretty interesting that it just, there's something about it that stays, like there's something about that old frogman that stays.
[00:06:13] Well, I think what the in the training and I guess the buzz if you were all in the subsequent, I don't even know what what all you do to become a sealer.
[00:06:24] I hear it's, but I'm always struck by how, how much a part of the old days is is inculcated into the modern day training and in the buzz candidate.
[00:06:48] And it always catches me off guard. I mean, I love the teams and when I, I always about, I read something like that about five years subsequent to that, to when that was written.
[00:07:04] And I think readers digest had a deal in 1961 or something like that. And I was a senior in college and I, as reading that puppy and I said, you know, and I, I didn't really want to go in the military, but I, when I put that down, I said, well, if I have to go in the military, I'm going to do that because that sounds really cool.
[00:07:27] And so it, it resonated with me and, and it's interesting to me that it seems like a big part of the seal training.
[00:07:40] Yeah, 100% yeah, and it's, it's a great. I mean, it's an old guy that, when I meet guys and when they hear these guys that could do so much more than I could for crying out loud. And then there being, they're giving me credit for something that, you know, I don't know if I had that in me, but by gum all take it. So, so thank you.
[00:08:05] Well, let's, let's, let's get there, let's go all the way back to the beginning to, to where, you know, to where you grew up and how you grew up just to kind of get a feel for where you came from. So when, when were you born?
[00:08:17] I was born in, in, in 1939. And, and so my dad, you know, he was, he was a hardworking guy. He just got finished with graduate school.
[00:08:32] And he was, he was starting his corporate career. And as a consequence, we moved a couple of times.
[00:08:40] But then the second world war broke out, he, he signed up with a Navy. He was a navigator.
[00:08:48] And, and, I don't, I can't, I don't know what, so you were born in third, 39.
[00:08:54] 39. Here's your dad, a couple years into his corporate career. Maybe a year or two. Yes. And that was just what guys were doing. Yes.
[00:09:02] Yes. For more broke out, didn't matter what you were doing. You had a family. You got young kids.
[00:09:06] Right. You're going. You're going. Or, or, or you, or you were, or you had some occupation where they needed you in it.
[00:09:16] And so they didn't want you in the military. They wanted you to keep going with whatever you were doing.
[00:09:20] You have any idea why he wanted to go in the Navy? I don't know who I did that. But because of that, we moved everywhere.
[00:09:28] We lived in Hollywood, Florida. We lived in San Francisco. And we were all over the place. And we must have moved.
[00:09:36] And by the time I was about four or five years old, and started going to school, I think I had to went to about five kindergarten.
[00:09:44] And then, and then about three or four first graduation. And second grade, I went down to one and then third.
[00:09:56] And then I went to the same school for third, fourth, and a month and a half of fifth grade.
[00:10:04] So moving around the law. And that your dad was in the Navy the whole time?
[00:10:08] Is that what you were? Well, everyone, he, he, let's see in 1945, I was six. So I was in first grade,
[00:10:18] and that's when the number of schools that I matriculated and kind of tapered down a little bit.
[00:10:24] And so we settled down. But did he get out of the Navy in 45 after the war?
[00:10:28] Yeah, he, he went and he became an administrative assistant to a U.S. senator from New Jersey, that knew him as a young kid going to business school.
[00:10:42] And so then we kind of settled down in the DC area for a couple years and then moved to up around New York.
[00:10:49] And what were you, what were you into when you were a kid? What were you doing?
[00:10:53] Well, nothing very worthwhile. I, it was one of those deals where you lived in a neighborhood.
[00:11:01] And yeah, your baseball team might have 13 guys on it, you know, and that's the way it was growing up and, you know, like a new Jersey in the town outside of New York City.
[00:11:13] And then just a bunch of kids getting together doing, doing sports stuff and Porter Park, I remember him on Claire.
[00:11:21] And so we did that kind of thing, nothing too organized.
[00:11:27] But then, what about by the time you got into high school, which you got to high school?
[00:11:32] Well, I, it's funny. I went to a school in Montclair in fifth grade and it was, and I met some good friends there.
[00:11:43] And the kids, all my buddies ended up going to, I think it was Montclair Academy for sixth grade.
[00:11:55] And my parents have, I don't know, you're going to go to Hillside Junior High School instead. So I said, she's okay.
[00:12:06] So I did, but by the time I was in eighth or ninth grade, it became clear to me why I didn't go to the private school in sixth grade.
[00:12:18] That's because my parents are probably saving up to send me off to boarding school in New England.
[00:12:24] And so I went to high school at Derffield Academy in Western and Massachusetts.
[00:12:31] And so that, is that like one of the old school, like all boys, school, co-ntry, co-ntry?
[00:12:37] Yeah, no girls. Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:40] It was gnarly.
[00:12:44] But yeah, it was, it was, it was a, it's a great school.
[00:12:50] And it was probably a lot better school than I was a student, but I think thank goodness for, for swimming, because I joined the swim team.
[00:13:02] And I, I wasn't a grace swimmer, but I was pretty good.
[00:13:06] And luckily I had some, you know, so I felt at home at Derffield because of swimming, and not because of the academics too much.
[00:13:15] I mean, I got through them, but it was a struggle. And I don't think I embarrass my parents, but I got through okay.
[00:13:24] And this is, so this is the, what late 50s?
[00:13:28] It's good. I was there. What in the fall of 54, graduated in 1957, and then went to college in 1958.
[00:13:40] Did you have a car? And between, I got a car in 19th, well, no, not until I left Derffield.
[00:13:50] Okay. Yeah, that was, see, somebody kids, somebody kids, they graduate, and they get a new car.
[00:13:57] How was that? It just seemed like cars back then were so epic.
[00:14:02] Oh, yeah. And even though cars, I think the car, I mean, even today in America, we kind of, we definitely focus on cars,
[00:14:09] and that's usually the biggest purchase of a person makes until there may be 30, and they finally buy a house.
[00:14:16] But up until then, it's like, what car are you getting? Yep. And back then, it seemed like it was even more so.
[00:14:23] Oh, he was unbelievable. I remember this guy, Joe Willard, my class, and he was really a neat guy.
[00:14:30] And I remember when graduation weekend came along, and he was going down all the neighborhood and Derffield, which is, you know, just kind of a country town kind of a place.
[00:14:42] And he had this 50 foot long grave.
[00:14:47] And 98, those will build, and there was Joe, man, and it was perfect. He was cruising down there waving and King of the world.
[00:15:00] Kind of the world. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:15:03] And I ended up going to two-lane university in New Orleans, and there was a, you know, there was a set of, you know, when you're religious, you know, there's saying,
[00:15:18] you know, he got has a plan for you. And so all you need to do is just lighten up and go along with the program.
[00:15:25] And I certainly didn't have that kind of a spiritual significance inculcated in me at that point. However, you talk about a guy who had no clue what was going on, but somebody must have because when I left Derffield, I think I was the only kid in my class.
[00:15:49] I had no college, so it was going to take me. And so my parents got me into this great college and was constantly called Lawrence College at the time, and they were good friends with the president of the college. So he says, yeah, okay, yeah.
[00:16:06] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, to Mercy admission. So I went there and I turned out that we went down for to to New Orleans because my, I had an aunt that lived there. We went there for spring break, and I looked like they said, I said, there's a college right here, you know, and I sure enough there was a two-lane university.
[00:16:32] And luckily, I had an uncle. I was at that time, well, I hate always has always been known for its medical school. And I had an uncle. I was a doctor, and he was pretty prominent around New Orleans.
[00:16:49] And so he got me in the two-lane, you know, the transfer student.
[00:16:54] And when you got down to New Orleans, so this is, so now we're talking 50.
[00:17:03] And a fall of 59.
[00:17:04] I mean, when you got up to Wisconsin, was that just like cold that you just thought to yourself, I got to get out of Wisconsin?
[00:17:12] Well, yeah, and also by this time, my parents had moved there, and I love my parents. We were close and everything, but I've already done time at a boarding school.
[00:17:23] I was away from home, so living with my parents just wasn't part of the program anymore, you know?
[00:17:29] And so I thought, gee, I got to get on my own here. So I, and that really was a big part of going to two-lane.
[00:17:38] And I was really stoked when you're all in, and the south.
[00:17:43] The first time that I went to New Orleans, we were in a seal-patoon, I was a new guy, and we were flying to go to Herbert Field in Florida.
[00:17:55] And for some reason, the air crew had had a plan stop from San Diego.
[00:18:03] We were flying to, for Robert Field Florida, and for somebody we had to stop for a night in New Orleans, like for some unknown reason, right?
[00:18:11] It's a two-lane night. It's a two-lane night.
[00:18:15] And all the guys were going to the Herbert Street, and I'm thinking it's two-lane night.
[00:18:19] And of course, I'm not even old enough to drink, so I'm kind of just going along with whatever's going along.
[00:18:25] And I thought to myself, well, two-lane, maybe we'll go to some dinner or what, it just wasn't really expecting much.
[00:18:30] We got down to Herbert Street on a two-lane night. It was complete and utter mayhem.
[00:18:35] It was chaos. There was people drinking. Girls taking their freaking clothes off. It was white. It was insane.
[00:18:43] Wonderful. Yeah. How does that? So was that kind of the gig when you showed up there in 1958?
[00:18:49] Was it similar? Was it that much of a party-town back then, too?
[00:18:52] Oh, for sure. And I was pretty straight, Errol.
[00:18:57] And I think I had my, well, I had my first beer, I think, and my freshman year up in Wisconsin and there, and I had great friends in my fraternity there.
[00:19:11] And so we drank a little bit of beer, but I really had a hondo to a fine art.
[00:19:18] I kind of knew all of it. Yeah, I knew all of it. I've been around. I moved a lot.
[00:19:27] And I, about five or six years ago, I was thinking, my favorite city in the United States, it has to be in your own.
[00:19:35] I was only there for college. And then a few years later, we did some business down there.
[00:19:43] But yeah, there's something very, very unique about New Orleans.
[00:19:48] It's wild. So then my, my platoon commander, this was also my first platoon, I think, on our way back or something.
[00:19:57] We have another weird random stop in New Orleans, but he went to Tulane.
[00:20:03] Oh, so he made inroads and we showed up at like a party where some kind of fraternity, I don't even know what it was.
[00:20:11] But we show up to this place and you know, it's like a platoon of seals and all these people, all these girls are there. It's just wild.
[00:20:19] Yes, wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I remember for a long time, for a long time, when I was a young single guy, my favorite two cities in America were New Orleans and Lake Tile.
[00:20:31] Because Lake Tile is also just wild.
[00:20:35] Yeah. And yeah, so it was like that in the 50s too, huh?
[00:20:39] Oh, for sure. It, and you know, we did, it all the French quarter stuff. And then, but the fraternity parties were a big deal. And yeah, it was pretty wild and crazy.
[00:20:54] Although I must say it was prime as much of a college experience as it was a city experience, but but we would would spend time downtown in the quarter and stuff.
[00:21:07] Usually, you know, if you're doing stuff and then you kind of finish up down the quarter and somehow you get home.
[00:21:15] What are you studying when you're going to college? I studied psychology and then minor in English.
[00:21:23] And what you do with that with any kind of intent, or is that just sort of like, how it turned out?
[00:21:29] Yeah, there was a lot of intent because it looked to me like psychology was probably the easiest subject to figure.
[00:21:38] And then, tangentially, I started doing the English thing and I minored in that.
[00:21:47] And then I became really interested in school. I read a fair amount. And I remember graduating with a degree in psychology and minor in English.
[00:22:01] And I remember, as I, when I started thinking about it, I really wish that I majored in English and then, you know, minor in something else.
[00:22:14] And then, I called you wasn't, it wasn't as developed as a field of study as it is today to so many people that probably was, but it just, it just didn't reach down to the rest of the world.
[00:22:29] As it seems soon now, because my kids have studied at and boy, they're, they're learning things that we didn't even on the map, you know, going through.
[00:22:40] You know, I kind of wanted major in psychology, partly since it's learning about old, crazy people, but the, when I was reading all these novels and books, there's where the crazy people were.
[00:22:53] So I had plenty of that. So so English was was good.
[00:22:58] And, you know, I'd say that I'd recommend that as a major for anybody.
[00:23:05] So as you're going through college, are you thinking you're going to get a job as a psychologist or you, or what, what are you thinking your future is going to be?
[00:23:13] Because you said you weren't really that interested in the military at that when you first heard an old.
[00:23:17] Oh, no, you don't want to reason. In those days, if you're a guy, a big part of your life from about 16, 17 years old on, as you got to deal with the draft, because if you don't, if you're not proactive with the military, you're going to get drafted.
[00:23:34] And you're going to go in the army.
[00:23:35] Even in 1958?
[00:23:37] Yep.
[00:23:38] Yep.
[00:23:39] No kidding.
[00:23:40] And so I knew I had, you know, we had Roxy kids in my fraternity, you know, and they do the Roxy deal.
[00:23:48] And so, you know, there was a, I mean, it was an underlying concern or consider, the military was very much a part of your life if you're a guy.
[00:24:00] So you're going to have to either be proactive, be going to ROTC or OCS if you want to be an officer or, or get married.
[00:24:11] And marriage was, and was kind of a ticket out of avoiding the military.
[00:24:18] You know, and I think a lot of guys did that.
[00:24:21] I filled with regret all of them.
[00:24:24] Yeah.
[00:24:25] You know, I mean, you say, you say the military's tough.
[00:24:29] Take a, how about a wife?
[00:24:31] Yeah.
[00:24:32] You know, so that.
[00:24:33] So yeah, you got it.
[00:24:35] And I thought always could thought that was a bad choice, not a, not forever, but when you're in your 17 18 19 20 year old,
[00:24:44] you, it's too early to sign up for that.
[00:24:48] So you, you, uh, joining you.
[00:24:50] Yeah, I, uh, I knew I had to do something about the military.
[00:24:53] And I, I remember talking to some guy who was a pilot, Navy pilot, and I thought, you may be able to be a pilot.
[00:24:58] And then that article about UDT came up and, and, uh, remember this guy named King Mallory, he was
[00:25:07] Sickening, he's going to go into UDT.
[00:25:09] And we, we were on the swim team at two lane.
[00:25:12] And I'll see, you were like a legit goods wherver.
[00:25:15] Oh, no, yeah, again, like I say, God had a plan.
[00:25:21] We were just starting this swim team.
[00:25:23] So we, we could take anybody.
[00:25:25] So there, there I was.
[00:25:27] At two lane and we, we did form the very first swim swim team.
[00:25:35] That's a, to lane head.
[00:25:36] So we, so I guess you made the team.
[00:25:39] And I, yeah, well, besides because in order to travel, you had to drive your own car.
[00:25:44] And I had a car.
[00:25:46] So, so we, um, I made the swim team.
[00:25:51] And what did this, what did this readers digest article say that really kind of
[00:25:56] stood out to you?
[00:25:59] And I believe, I believe correct me from wrong.
[00:26:02] I believe that Admiral Richards talked about the same thing.
[00:26:06] Wasn't Admiral Richards.
[00:26:07] I think it was he also saw a readers digest article and said,
[00:26:10] It, it's, I mean, people, my, it's everybody knows about that.
[00:26:14] If you're in the teams, uh, I, I'm sure everybody has, is aware of that article.
[00:26:21] Whether they read it or not, I don't know, but it, yeah, it was, it was well
[00:26:25] known, everybody knows.
[00:26:26] So what did it say in there that, that struck you as well.
[00:26:29] One thing, it really sounded like it wasn't very military.
[00:26:33] He didn't have to be that organized and have to shine your shoes.
[00:26:36] You know, you didn't have to do all that stuff, which had, that peeled me tremendously.
[00:26:42] So, uh, and I remember one line in it, and it, um, I didn't, it said that
[00:26:50] I, something like this, a, uh, a frogman on the beach in his swim trunks
[00:26:59] with his, uh, K bar in his hand, uh, is one of the deadliest weapons in the military,
[00:27:08] something like that.
[00:27:09] And, and that's really dramatic.
[00:27:11] I think I'm a lie in sync.
[00:27:12] Yeah.
[00:27:13] And, and I, I didn't exactly buy that, but I liked the spirit of it.
[00:27:18] And, uh, I think, and as you, and the passage that you read that, there is a spirit of,
[00:27:24] uh, you know what, I'm, I'm in the military, I'm part of a group, but I'm, my own
[00:27:30] man, I'm, I'm, I'm still who I am, and I'm independent, and you're, you're loyal
[00:27:38] to your soul, your loyal to, uh, what you really want to do.
[00:27:43] And just, it just, it just so happens during this organization where everybody else feels the same way.
[00:27:48] And if you don't feel that way, you probably won't get through training, you know, there'll be,
[00:27:53] so it was, it, it, it, there was something, something rebellious about it.
[00:27:58] Here you are going in the military, but yet you're going in, you're kind of backing into it, man.
[00:28:04] This is, I don't go in the military, but this is how I want to do it.
[00:28:07] And I think, I think that was part of the, I think that was part of the,
[00:28:12] it's part of the psychology of the, the causes people, at least, it's, it's, it's, it's,
[00:28:17] it's, it's, it's, it's what I liked about it.
[00:28:19] It was like a recruiting poster, a recruiting, yeah, some kind of poster that I think they had
[00:28:26] for project Delta and Vietnam, and it was Charlie Beckworth said something along the lines of,
[00:28:32] I promise you, medals, or a body bag, or both volunteer here, but I've also seen a similar
[00:28:41] thing for UDTs in World War II. I haven't been able to figure out the source of it.
[00:28:46] But it was something along the lines of, no KP duty, no uniform, no standing in line
[00:28:53] in the childhood, joined the suicide squad UDT.
[00:28:58] Yeah, it's like a way to recruit guys, man. Young, young guys read that kind of stuff
[00:29:04] and they get all kinds of fired up for it.
[00:29:07] Sure. And yeah, they have to, they have to want to take a risk too.
[00:29:14] Yeah. So what was the process for actually joining, how did your dad feel about you going
[00:29:20] to the UDT? Oh, he was so old for it.
[00:29:22] 100% of the people. Yeah, my dad was, he was a great cheerleader.
[00:29:28] And yeah, he, you know, like, swapping, you know, and he would, he liked a drink a lot too,
[00:29:35] and boy, after, you know, it were some cocktail party or something.
[00:29:40] Boy, you know, by the end of the night, he had me going to the Olympics.
[00:29:45] Yeah. Yeah. It was awesome.
[00:29:49] But I didn't measure up, but it was, yeah, he, he used all for it.
[00:29:55] And did he tell you anything about the UDTs in World War II?
[00:29:58] He didn't know. No.
[00:30:00] And even when I joined, he didn't, he probably didn't know what the much about him.
[00:30:06] He was in the Pacific, and he was in an airplane.
[00:30:10] And I, you know, I don't, I mean, the UDTs certainly were made a contribution to the war,
[00:30:18] but I don't know if everybody in the military was aware of what all they did.
[00:30:23] But he was stoked with the, me joining it. He, I think he could see why, why it appealed to me.
[00:30:32] Instead of, you know, something that's a little more organized.
[00:30:38] But yeah, he was, he was all for it.
[00:30:43] I felt like he really was supportive of it.
[00:30:46] And then how did you get your commission? Did you go to OCS where you, or were you in ROTC the whole time?
[00:30:51] Well, it's funny. I don't know, I don't know, I'd want to digress anything, but I really didn't know what to do about the military up until about the 10th of September.
[00:31:04] And I had, I had a choice of either going six months in the Coast Guard.
[00:31:10] And then three, you know, like six years of reserves weekend duty.
[00:31:14] Because I was really the easiest way out. You just do Coast Guard. And then you do the reserves, or go up to OCS.
[00:31:24] And I said, well, if it's OCS, shit, it's a tenth of a century.
[00:31:29] I think they start the 15th. And so I was standing on the courthouse steps there.
[00:31:35] And I just about flipped the coin as it came up OCS.
[00:31:39] So I said, well, fuck, I better get going here because I'm driving in my 1957 Volkswagen.
[00:31:45] And so I made it. So that's how I ended up going OCS.
[00:31:49] Where was OCS? Was it Rhode Island or was it in Newport?
[00:31:53] And when you showed up to OCS, was that run by Marine Corps Jones structures?
[00:31:59] No, it was a Navy guy. Oh, how I showed it? Just, it's a good story because it shows you.
[00:32:05] I didn't know what the heck I was doing. So I pulled in the parking line.
[00:32:09] I had my clothes hung in the back seat of the of my car so that the Volkswagen window was my blue, my
[00:32:22] Preppy blue blazer was up against the window. And so I closed the car and I thought, well, I tell you what.
[00:32:30] I go, I'll go up park here. Now go in and I'll check into my room and then I need to go into town and get a bite to eat.
[00:32:37] Well, I go in there. The next time I saw that car was about six weeks later.
[00:32:43] And now I'm going anywhere, man.
[00:32:47] And so I welcome to the military.
[00:32:49] She, this is, I'm now, I know I never wanted to go in the military. You can't do anything. So I get back out to my car.
[00:33:00] My first day of liberty after six weeks. And I was going to put my blue blazer on.
[00:33:06] However, that portion of the Navy blue blazer that was up against the window had been exposed to the sun for six weeks.
[00:33:14] And it, and Navy blue blazers exposed the sun that it turns pink.
[00:33:20] So I had to have my blazer was pink. So anyhow, that's how that was kind of my introduction.
[00:33:27] When I realized that, hey, you know what, I'm not in charge of my life anymore.
[00:33:32] So that was welcome to the military.
[00:33:35] Did you know you were going UDT when you went to OCS?
[00:33:38] Was it some kind of contract? Was it like pre-designated?
[00:33:42] Or did it just tell you you need to take a test or something when you got there?
[00:33:46] No, I had no idea. I, I, I, I didn't know it was an option.
[00:33:52] And I, I think it, it was not an option at that point.
[00:33:59] And I think you had to do a year in the fleet.
[00:34:02] And then you could sign up for UDT.
[00:34:04] But that was, see, this was getting in towards 62.
[00:34:10] And I think whether we knew it or not, Vietnam was cooking up pretty good.
[00:34:14] And that's, Kennedy was present.
[00:34:16] And so the needs for special warfare was, was, was becoming more paramount at that point.
[00:34:22] And so during, actually, it was during our class.
[00:34:26] They opened it up. Hey, if you want to go directly into UDT for OCS, you may.
[00:34:31] So I was on that like a tramp on a hot muffler.
[00:34:35] I'm sorry. I'm kind of, gift there.
[00:34:38] So did you take a screening test or something?
[00:34:41] Or did you get to, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:43] I had a, I think you had a whole breadth of certain length.
[00:34:47] And then there was another thing that you had to do.
[00:34:50] You had to go in a, was in a chamber.
[00:34:52] And they pressurized you down to 60 feet or something like that.
[00:34:56] And I remember that.
[00:34:57] Um, because I couldn't get my one of my ears to clear.
[00:35:02] I wanted to down there.
[00:35:04] And, and it just ended up bursting the air drum, but I didn't tell anybody about it.
[00:35:09] Because I knew then it's one of those great hogs out there.
[00:35:14] It's where I did.
[00:35:15] So I, I got through it.
[00:35:19] And they let me in and, and, and, I was really stoked.
[00:35:24] I could get, you know, to get the, get a chance to go into UDT training.
[00:35:29] Was there even any, I'm, I'm going to assume there was no UDT people at OCS.
[00:35:33] They must have, but did they just look at you like you were crazy guy for one go to that?
[00:35:37] Yeah, I was going to go in, I think I was going to go in my class.
[00:35:41] I mean, even up until like the 80s officers that were going to be seals,
[00:35:47] or kind of like you were, you're, you're capping your career.
[00:35:50] Like, oh, you'll make capping, but you're never going to be an animal.
[00:35:52] You were just kind of, you were, you were, you were taken like a sideline.
[00:35:56] You were taking a side job that didn't really count to the big Navy.
[00:35:59] So I imagine it in 1962 it must have been just like,
[00:36:02] a great point.
[00:36:03] You know, I rolled in the Coronado, the high, there was UDT 12 and UDT 11 there.
[00:36:11] And then on the East Coast, there was 21 and 22 I believe.
[00:36:15] And then the highest ranking officer on the West Coast was a Mustang commander.
[00:36:24] And his name was Mac Bointon.
[00:36:27] And he always smoked a pipe, so we called him Mac the pipe.
[00:36:31] And he, he was, and he was a highest ranking guy in the, in the teams.
[00:36:38] And he was, I think, a second highest ranking person was a, was a lieutenant lieutenant.
[00:36:45] And then he ended up becoming a lieutenant commander.
[00:36:49] And then, yeah, it was, it was a bitchern.
[00:36:52] I mean, it was just not, it was just, just like, you just read about it.
[00:36:57] And it just, it was, it was driving, and then when I was driving up Coronado,
[00:37:04] got off the ferry boat, and I was driving up Coronado, and the sun was going down.
[00:37:09] And he was the, the Coronado, but it wasn't there yet.
[00:37:12] Not yet.
[00:37:13] So you're driving up the strand?
[00:37:14] No, you drive up in the town and you catch a ferry boat in San Diego.
[00:37:19] And had you, had you driven your VW across country?
[00:37:22] Yeah.
[00:37:23] What'd you have a VW bug?
[00:37:24] Yeah.
[00:37:25] What color was it?
[00:37:28] Gold.
[00:37:29] Gold.
[00:37:30] So you drive this thing across country?
[00:37:32] Did you do any preparation besides like, hey, you knew how to swim good?
[00:37:35] Did you run or anything like this?
[00:37:37] Yeah, they, they said running was a big deal.
[00:37:39] And I remember, as I drove, I would check in to a hot towel joint.
[00:37:44] And then I would run about two or three miles and then go to bed.
[00:37:49] And then, um, did that.
[00:37:51] And then I went, I woke up, I ran a couple of miles.
[00:37:54] And go to, and then get going.
[00:37:57] Uh, yeah, I was, I knew you had to be a fit.
[00:38:00] And so I was working on that.
[00:38:02] And I had been since I left US, left OCS.
[00:38:08] By the way, when I left OCS, I was in my gold coach.
[00:38:12] It was February.
[00:38:14] And, um, snow and, and I was driving through, I remember driving through a whole
[00:38:19] mile of all places when John Glenn was going around the world.
[00:38:24] Or whatever he did, the epic space flight that he did.
[00:38:28] And it was, I was just listening to it on my radio.
[00:38:31] I was riveted.
[00:38:32] You know, it was just fantastic.
[00:38:34] And so that's kind of how I got my start from OCS back to California.
[00:38:39] Was OCS done in six weeks or that just when you forgot your first break.
[00:38:43] When, no, uh, it was done.
[00:38:46] Let me see, I started in September.
[00:38:50] So we, yeah, was, was October, November, December, January.
[00:38:55] It was about a three or four months program.
[00:38:58] And, uh, and so in February, I was done.
[00:39:01] I mean, it was, I was commissioned and I was on the way to,
[00:39:05] Cornell.
[00:39:06] Making that big Navy paycheck.
[00:39:08] Oh, yeah.
[00:39:09] Ritz is guy in the world.
[00:39:11] Oh, yeah.
[00:39:12] I was driving one of the finest cars modern day Tesla, you know.
[00:39:17] So you certainly driving out your drive out and you eventually get the
[00:39:21] Cornell.
[00:39:22] Yes.
[00:39:22] And you say you take the ferry from where from downtown San Diego.
[00:39:25] Yeah, in the Coronado.
[00:39:26] Yeah, downtown.
[00:39:27] What is that?
[00:39:28] The Seaport Village.
[00:39:29] Yeah.
[00:39:30] Yeah.
[00:39:30] It is Seaport Village now.
[00:39:31] You get off.
[00:39:32] And you know, you drive into an AB Cornell.
[00:39:36] You're looking right.
[00:39:37] What, what happens when you check in?
[00:39:40] Is anybody even there?
[00:39:41] Yeah, there was a Donald Lothon that was the officer on duty.
[00:39:45] And then this guy, I forgot the name of the other guy that was working with him.
[00:39:50] But yeah.
[00:39:51] And he was, again, I was just also
[00:39:55] Providential.
[00:39:56] I mean, Donald Lothon was this great guy.
[00:39:59] He very encouraging.
[00:40:00] And he said, hey, you know, it's, it's hard.
[00:40:03] But you're going to do fine.
[00:40:05] You know, and, you know, a lot of, and, you know,
[00:40:08] I could have run into some guys who knew, oh, man, you're going to.
[00:40:12] But this guy, he was, maybe ended up being a good friend.
[00:40:15] And was he, so he was he in Buds or he was already in the teams?
[00:40:19] He was already in the teams.
[00:40:20] He was one of the instructors.
[00:40:21] And he was the officer, officer of the day.
[00:40:24] And so he was on the base when I checked in.
[00:40:27] And he was cool.
[00:40:28] Really cool.
[00:40:29] Just like, oh, you'll be fine.
[00:40:31] Yeah.
[00:40:32] And that's cool.
[00:40:33] Yeah, it was really cool.
[00:40:35] Yeah.
[00:40:35] And, and I actually, I was going to do a little bit of a
[00:40:37] video.
[00:40:38] And I, I actually, as I think back on who is around in those days.
[00:40:40] And I think most of the guys on the teams would would have been.
[00:40:43] Yes.
[00:40:44] I wish I could say the same.
[00:40:45] I was talking to my buddies that's a master chief now on the team.
[00:40:48] He's still in.
[00:40:49] But he said he was my roommate.
[00:40:51] But he said, we checked in.
[00:40:53] He walked in the room.
[00:40:54] I looked up at and said, looked at that.
[00:40:56] I've been said, quit now and avoid the rush.
[00:40:58] I was like, oh, sorry.
[00:41:03] I was such an asshole.
[00:41:06] That was as welcome aboard.
[00:41:07] We were laughing so hard that I said that through a
[00:41:09] freaking great guy.
[00:41:11] We had so many good times.
[00:41:13] That was how I introduced myself through.
[00:41:15] But you quit now and avoid the rush.
[00:41:17] That's really good.
[00:41:19] Good.
[00:41:20] How long did it take from when you checked into Buds to where you
[00:41:24] actually got into a class?
[00:41:25] That was about a month.
[00:41:28] We had some kind of course we took.
[00:41:31] There's just a killing time and building 401 across the
[00:41:35] street on the base.
[00:41:38] UDT was in building 208 on the base side of the
[00:41:43] amphib base.
[00:41:45] Then the teams were where the teams were.
[00:41:49] You have about a month and you're just kind of training and going
[00:41:53] to whatever kind of course they're putting to your work and out.
[00:41:57] You work out on your own.
[00:42:00] Which was fine.
[00:42:01] I just get up and run quite a bit.
[00:42:05] Swimming I didn't think was going to be a problem.
[00:42:09] The running, I want to make sure I could keep up on the run.
[00:42:15] You get this.
[00:42:17] This is still called UDTR.
[00:42:20] UDTR.
[00:42:22] UDTR.
[00:42:24] It's underwater demolition teams replacement.
[00:42:28] Underwater demolition team, training.
[00:42:32] Got it.
[00:42:33] UDTR.
[00:42:36] What class were you in?
[00:42:38] 28.
[00:42:40] You're in class 28.
[00:42:41] Was that a big deal back then?
[00:42:43] Did you guys make a big deal that you were in class 28?
[00:42:45] You didn't even think about it yet.
[00:42:46] I wouldn't even think.
[00:42:48] I just wanted to get through the back.
[00:42:52] Did you guys wear helmet liners?
[00:42:55] I did.
[00:42:56] Did you put your number of class number on it?
[00:43:00] I don't think we did that.
[00:43:02] We, no, I'm sure we did.
[00:43:05] Class number wasn't a big thing yet.
[00:43:08] Not yet.
[00:43:09] Do you remember when you started?
[00:43:12] Do you remember your first day of first phase?
[00:43:13] Oh, yeah.
[00:43:14] They heard there were 14 officers that were going to start class 28.
[00:43:21] How many people told them?
[00:43:22] Then there were about another 80 and listen guys, a total in the very beginning.
[00:43:28] But the first day of train, they do officers for two weeks.
[00:43:32] The officers had two weeks of training before the whole class comes together.
[00:43:37] The reason was that you had to get rid of the officers that are going to quit.
[00:43:43] We probably started with about 20 something.
[00:43:46] We did a number of officers right away.
[00:43:50] Not too many.
[00:43:51] I mean, certainly the majority of the officers remain in the class.
[00:43:58] A guy was telling me that like before a week, they'll have a class and they'll be whatever.
[00:44:05] Set officers, 10 officers.
[00:44:07] And then structural, who's number one in charge in the, you know, guy resistance?
[00:44:11] Yeah.
[00:44:12] This is before how like they say, who's next in charge and another guy who's next in
[00:44:15] charge and they'll go to like six deep.
[00:44:17] Because the sun today is man, you're going to go through all those officers.
[00:44:20] They're going to go on.
[00:44:21] Bye bye.
[00:44:22] They're getting good.
[00:44:24] Look at them now.
[00:44:25] They're going to be history.
[00:44:27] So the officers spent some time two weeks.
[00:44:31] They're weed now at some of those guys.
[00:44:33] And they weed it down to how many officers?
[00:44:37] I think they're about eight of us.
[00:44:39] Okay.
[00:44:40] So what were you guys doing when you were, when they did, when they treat you like
[00:44:44] bud students where they beat you guys and tearing you up during those two weeks before you joined the class,
[00:44:51] what they do to get rid of some of these guys?
[00:44:53] Well, the runs were longer.
[00:44:56] It was all the physical stuff and a lot of cold water.
[00:45:00] But it wasn't that hard to, it wasn't bad.
[00:45:05] The running was pretty, pretty hard.
[00:45:08] And I worked pretty hard to get ready for it.
[00:45:11] And I, as I recall, it, it, it wasn't a real problem for me.
[00:45:18] But by gum it was, it was hard.
[00:45:21] And I remember, I think I was in, in shape for it.
[00:45:28] But there's, I remember what this one run.
[00:45:31] We had this guy.
[00:45:32] In fact, he lives in Cornado today.
[00:45:34] He led the run.
[00:45:36] And she, you know, he just kept going and going.
[00:45:40] And I remember at the end of the run, I guess I experienced hypothermia, which I'd never
[00:45:46] known anything about.
[00:45:48] And I still didn't at that time.
[00:45:50] But I know that as soon as we got done with the run and I ran over to the, I guess,
[00:45:56] someplace where they sold baby Ruth candy bars, native about two of those puppies right
[00:46:01] off the bat, before we went to the chow hall.
[00:46:04] And the, the, the, the instructors with these guys like Korean war vets and World War
[00:46:09] two vets.
[00:46:10] That's a good, good question.
[00:46:12] There was one guy that was a World War II guy.
[00:46:16] And I think, I think he was a Normandy.
[00:46:21] And then there was other guys that were Korean and, yeah, Korean war.
[00:46:28] I, oh, and Joe Barber.
[00:46:29] Yeah, he, he was a Second World War guy.
[00:46:31] But I don't know, he wasn't a frogman.
[00:46:33] I don't think, at that point.
[00:46:36] But, uh, and then the other guys were, were, yeah, the couple of the other instructors
[00:46:46] were post, uh, Korea.
[00:46:48] And this is 1962.
[00:46:50] 62.
[00:46:51] A lot of March of 62.
[00:46:53] Oh, so this is like the seal teams that just performed.
[00:46:56] They had hit his head off that.
[00:46:58] Yeah.
[00:46:59] They were, and so we went on across it when we got done with training and went across
[00:47:02] straight there were 50 seals, uh, the seal team won had been formed and it consisted of
[00:47:08] 50 guys.
[00:47:11] So first day of, you said you remembered your first day of actual training with the whole
[00:47:16] class.
[00:47:17] Mm-hmm.
[00:47:18] Did they stop you guys in the ground?
[00:47:19] Was it a more gentle entry?
[00:47:21] What they do to you?
[00:47:22] Well, we had a pretty serious conditioning hike.
[00:47:29] And so yeah.
[00:47:31] They were training, he's strung out from the hotel down the north.
[00:47:38] You know, just everywhere.
[00:47:39] But, uh, but yeah, we had a good run.
[00:47:42] And then everybody's pretty hot, so we's gotten a water.
[00:47:45] Good cool.
[00:47:46] Cool down.
[00:47:47] Yeah.
[00:47:48] Yeah.
[00:47:49] You train these, what, what a whole hot and you need to get cool off here.
[00:47:55] So were people quitting on the first day?
[00:47:57] Yeah.
[00:47:58] Yeah.
[00:47:59] We probably, I don't know how many.
[00:48:00] But yeah, we'd loot the first week there.
[00:48:04] We probably lost 20 guys and all together.
[00:48:09] And it's a guess.
[00:48:10] I don't know.
[00:48:11] Do you think they just didn't know what they were getting into?
[00:48:15] I'm sure that a couple of them just didn't know that all that.
[00:48:18] Yeah.
[00:48:19] Because I know that I know nowadays there's so much of a perspective of UDT guys.
[00:48:25] I think I'm going to, or seal team guys, they're going to know a lot about the team.
[00:48:30] And, but the Arga, you know, in those days, there was, yeah, they didn't have any idea.
[00:48:40] And probably, probably, there's one guy.
[00:48:47] He was from Holland.
[00:48:49] And he ended up graduating from high school in, up in the Northwest someplace.
[00:48:54] His name, he's a good friend of mine.
[00:48:58] Actually, lives in Coronado now.
[00:49:00] And his name is Dutch Swagamokkers.
[00:49:05] And he, when we first day in the pool, he could not swim.
[00:49:12] And you know that deal with a heavy, heavy, heavy, you have to keep your head above water,
[00:49:17] something like that.
[00:49:18] I don't know how long it was.
[00:49:20] But you need to keep yourself afloat.
[00:49:23] This guy, he was a cyclist.
[00:49:26] So he had not one ounce of fat on it.
[00:49:28] So you put him on the pool, couldn't swim.
[00:49:32] And yeah, he's down in the bottom.
[00:49:34] He, he, he, he had his hands up there.
[00:49:36] And he's also, he wasn't real tall.
[00:49:38] He's about five, five, six, five, seven.
[00:49:41] And he had his hands up there.
[00:49:42] And he, you could tell he's a straighter.
[00:49:45] And then he'd sink, the fingers would go below the surface of the water.
[00:49:49] And then he would get himself back.
[00:49:52] But he made it through.
[00:49:54] And then when he, and then all those swimming pool thing, and then finally, thank God,
[00:50:02] he was issued a pair of fins.
[00:50:04] And then with his legs as a cyclist, he could out swim most people anyhow.
[00:50:09] And so, but he, I, I'll never forget that.
[00:50:13] I such a courageous guy.
[00:50:15] And how he, able, was able to do what he did with no swimming background tall.
[00:50:21] That's insane.
[00:50:22] Yeah, it really is.
[00:50:23] Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:50:24] Yeah.
[00:50:25] And he, but he did it.
[00:50:26] And he became, he was very successful.
[00:50:29] Frogman.
[00:50:30] And then he, he did some diving after the teams.
[00:50:35] Yeah.
[00:50:36] But he's a local guy in Coronado now and does, has a nice family and good wife and all that stuff.
[00:50:45] So you're rolling to Hellweek?
[00:50:47] What do you remember about Hellweek?
[00:50:49] I was, it was a bitch in Hell.
[00:50:51] I, we, was, what was the hype around going into it?
[00:50:59] Was people nervous?
[00:51:01] Were people excited about it?
[00:51:04] Were, like, were you scared?
[00:51:07] Was the hype going into it?
[00:51:08] I think nervous and scared probably was a, two, two, two biggest feelings about it.
[00:51:15] Yeah, everybody was, and that's probably the same today.
[00:51:18] You know, it's just, yeah, it was, I, I know in my own head, you know, I thought about
[00:51:27] a lot, I, I swear there was, there was never a thought of not making it through Hellweek.
[00:51:38] I just wasn't sure, and I think that's how all of us felt.
[00:51:42] Yeah, we're all going to make it, but we don't know how.
[00:51:47] But we weren't asked to articulate that.
[00:51:50] We all, we had to do his hang in there.
[00:51:53] And, and so that was my mind, so, well, you know what that was?
[00:51:58] I'll just do it as long.
[00:51:59] I'll just hang in here.
[00:52:01] And if you have that mindset then I think it becomes manageable.
[00:52:06] And, and it was, it was hard.
[00:52:10] I mean, you got a damn cold and you didn't sleep, and, but you knew after Monday that
[00:52:19] there was Tuesday, you know what?
[00:52:21] Yeah, and we got done on Saturday morning.
[00:52:24] And, and you got through and, and it wasn't, you didn't have the feeling that, oh,
[00:52:32] kind of made it, I can't believe.
[00:52:33] I made it.
[00:52:34] No, you had the feeling.
[00:52:35] Well, who?
[00:52:36] I'm glad that's over with.
[00:52:38] But you, because I think your mindset was that you're, you're going to get through.
[00:52:45] It just, just how the hell you're going to do it, who knows, you know, so you just do it.
[00:52:51] How many people you think you lost?
[00:52:53] I don't know.
[00:52:54] Let's say we start with a grand total of 80.
[00:52:57] We probably lost at least half, you know, maybe maybe we're down to 30.
[00:53:03] I remember when we started with like six or seven boat crews and then at the end we had four.
[00:53:08] And so, you had six man and a boat.
[00:53:11] As I said before, I wasn't much of a student, but I could multiply six.
[00:53:17] Yeah, six out of three.
[00:53:19] Yeah, I carried the one.
[00:53:22] Yeah.
[00:53:23] I didn't, you get, so was, was your training broken up into phases the way it is now?
[00:53:29] So for me, I went through first phase, which was like the weeding out phase.
[00:53:33] It was nine weeks long.
[00:53:35] Then we went and dive phase where you learned how to scuba dive and drag her on all that.
[00:53:39] And then went into land warfare.
[00:53:41] I think dive phase was like seven weeks and then land warfare was another eight weeks or
[00:53:44] nine weeks.
[00:53:45] It was, it was somewhat like that.
[00:53:48] Yeah, it was definitely that first phase right up to hell week, they just beat the crap
[00:53:52] out of you, you know, and getting shape.
[00:53:55] And then you had hell week and then I remember for a few days after hell week that next week
[00:54:01] we did some, we shot guns or something like that, where we, because everybody's pretty
[00:54:05] slow and so.
[00:54:08] And then the dive phase.
[00:54:11] And then, I guess.
[00:54:15] Was dive phase a challenge?
[00:54:17] No.
[00:54:18] For me, for you, not really.
[00:54:20] No.
[00:54:21] No, it was easy.
[00:54:22] Were you guys diving the old Emerson Rake?
[00:54:23] Were you guys diving?
[00:54:24] Yeah.
[00:54:25] Yeah, Emerson.
[00:54:26] So you started on open circuit.
[00:54:27] Did you guys do a pool competency?
[00:54:29] Yes.
[00:54:30] Oh, yeah.
[00:54:31] We were well prepared.
[00:54:32] I think, you know, everybody knew how to do it.
[00:54:35] And we were, we were a lot in the, we were in the pool a lot.
[00:54:39] And then we went off up at point low, my line.
[00:54:43] It was pool comp.
[00:54:45] Like when I went through pool comp was a big hurdle to get over where you had the 28
[00:54:51] is on.
[00:54:52] You had the devil hose regulate.
[00:54:53] Yeah.
[00:54:54] And down tie that thing and not rip your mask off.
[00:54:57] You up down there on the water.
[00:54:59] It was something that a lot of guys failed.
[00:55:01] Myself and could I failed at the first time I took it.
[00:55:04] But was that like a big hurdle for you guys?
[00:55:07] Or was it more like they were just instructing you?
[00:55:10] You know, I don't remember being that, that much harassment.
[00:55:14] Maybe we got off easy on that because there was a little bit of that.
[00:55:18] But for the most part, it was instructive.
[00:55:23] And I never felt, you know, they made you take your regular, you know, do things
[00:55:28] men where you could hold your breath.
[00:55:30] Right.
[00:55:31] It was, I don't remember that being a problem or a challenge even.
[00:55:34] And then you did, you said you dove the Emerson rig for a close circuit.
[00:55:39] Do you remember?
[00:55:40] Oh, I remember we dove a closed circuit thing.
[00:55:45] But I don't, I think I can't remember the name of it.
[00:55:48] Might have been Emerson.
[00:55:50] But it was close circuit.
[00:55:52] And yeah, I remember some of the old guys told me they called it the green
[00:55:55] death because it was like a horrible rig to die for whatever reason.
[00:55:58] I don't know the reason why they just did like this Emerson rig.
[00:56:01] I think that was it.
[00:56:04] I remember there was a guy in my, this guy named Dowd who died in a training thing
[00:56:09] because of the, of the Emerson.
[00:56:12] I'm sure I think it was the Emerson.
[00:56:15] And I remember the poor guy who's in the decompression chamber there trying to bring
[00:56:20] him back and didn't do it.
[00:56:25] The diving you said you're diving off point Loma, you know, out doing basic dives in this
[00:56:29] thing.
[00:56:30] Right.
[00:56:31] And then what kind of land warfare training did you get?
[00:56:35] Well, that's a good question.
[00:56:37] I don't remember getting much of it at home.
[00:56:40] Yeah, we didn't do it.
[00:56:42] We did a little bit of marches out of the O tie where I guess I, there are a bunch of houses
[00:56:47] out there now.
[00:56:48] You know, it was a lot of land hiking and going around.
[00:56:55] But there wasn't, there wasn't much of it.
[00:56:57] And it makes sense because seal team was really wasn't part of the mission anymore yet.
[00:57:05] So that land stuff, we were water guys.
[00:57:08] We were a frog man.
[00:57:09] So we didn't have to do a musco that stuff.
[00:57:14] So when you wrap up with training, did you go to airborne school?
[00:57:18] I went about a year after training.
[00:57:21] Okay.
[00:57:22] Some guys did, some guys didn't, and I don't know why my number was delayed, but then we
[00:57:27] did go to jump school at Benning.
[00:57:30] So when you graduated buds or you graduated UDT training and then you got stationed on
[00:57:35] a West Coast team, what team you go to?
[00:57:37] 12.
[00:57:38] And what was it like showing up there?
[00:57:40] What was the deal?
[00:57:42] Well, it was great. I ran into Donald Loffland.
[00:57:44] Like I had met that very first day.
[00:57:46] I, there and I, I think first thing we did is, uh, this fellow officer of mine and I,
[00:57:55] he said, well, I guess kind of looked around and said, well, mys will go for run.
[00:58:01] So we just started working out and they wouldn't hold hell a lot going on.
[00:58:08] Yeah.
[00:58:09] Like what now it's not, is it 1963 yet?
[00:58:11] Yeah.
[00:58:12] Or still not.
[00:58:13] It's not late.
[00:58:14] 62 August.
[00:58:16] We got done in August.
[00:58:17] Are you hearing rumbling as a male Vietnam?
[00:58:19] Is that like, not really.
[00:58:23] I don't, I don't know if anybody had been to Vietnam yet.
[00:58:27] Yeah.
[00:58:28] I mean, even talking, I've had guys on that word, you know, in the Navy in 1965.
[00:58:33] Yeah.
[00:58:34] He still weren't thinking about Vietnam.
[00:58:35] It was the right thing yet.
[00:58:36] And his late is 1965 then it's kind of kicked off everyone.
[00:58:39] That's just about exactly right.
[00:58:41] Because I got out in 65, figure was 65.
[00:58:44] And then, um, my brother, uh, actually, I was driving east to go work in some corporate
[00:58:54] job.
[00:58:56] And, uh, and then he was driving west.
[00:58:59] He just got done with OCS and he was heading to Coronado.
[00:59:02] So you know, guys, high five, that's you.
[00:59:04] Yeah.
[00:59:05] We met in Tucson, drink, we empty that town of Beirut.
[00:59:10] And he went west and I went east.
[00:59:12] And, uh, my wife was pissed off because I drank too much the night before.
[00:59:17] But then we, we just, uh, carried on.
[00:59:20] And he had, he had followed in your footsteps, heard about what you were doing.
[00:59:24] Yeah.
[00:59:25] And thought that sounded like a good deal.
[00:59:26] Yeah.
[00:59:27] Yeah.
[00:59:28] What, what, what, how you tracking him as he's going through training, you're
[00:59:32] he was training pretty much, uh, he would say, I remember him.
[00:59:36] He got engaged and, uh, he got engaged while he was in training.
[00:59:45] And then got married after, after he was done with training.
[00:59:49] But, uh, yeah.
[00:59:50] And he would send pictures of, uh, engaged with party and stuff.
[00:59:54] And I mean, he had, uh, haircut like yours.
[00:59:57] And so there was, uh, in your, so, uh,
[01:00:02] they, um, but, you know, again, you know, we don't have the phone.
[01:00:07] Right.
[01:00:08] It's just interesting how, how, in frequently, we would communicate and yet not always
[01:00:14] felt up to date.
[01:00:15] Right.
[01:00:16] So, we, you got to just to rewind a little bit when you got to UDT.
[01:00:20] Do you say you, UDT 12?
[01:00:22] Yes.
[01:00:23] So, you get to UDT 12.
[01:00:24] Do you get assigned to a platoon?
[01:00:25] Do you go on deployment?
[01:00:26] What are you doing?
[01:00:27] Get there.
[01:00:28] I got assigned to a platoon with, uh, Clay Freeman.
[01:00:31] He was a platoon officer.
[01:00:32] And, uh, he was a great guy.
[01:00:36] Went to Dartmouth.
[01:00:37] He was a big time skier and, uh, good guy, but he out.
[01:00:40] So, we, and then, uh, we just hung out and I think we did some, we did a sub-op one time
[01:00:47] off of, uh, San Cometi and, and then, uh, oh, and, and then what, what did happen is that
[01:00:53] we had the, the missile crisis with Castro.
[01:00:57] Okay.
[01:00:58] Deal.
[01:00:59] And, and that, and it up, not being anything really, but they, everybody loaded up on, uh,
[01:01:06] uh, APD, I think it's, uh, what we traveled in, and then, uh, they just did PT and they got
[01:01:13] down to the canal and then turned around and came back because the crisis was over.
[01:01:18] Also, like you loaded up on a ship to go over to Cuba for, to do whatever, to the right,
[01:01:24] right.
[01:01:25] Right.
[01:01:26] And, and not having it to do it, then came home.
[01:01:30] Would you, would you guys go on deployments?
[01:01:33] You know, like when I got in the teams, you were going to get an up-toon, you're going
[01:01:35] to do a work-up, you were going to go on deployment, you're going to get done with that
[01:01:38] deployment, and the first couple to point, well, actually the first, uh, second, third,
[01:01:44] and fifth deployment, I think, it will all shit board for me.
[01:01:47] Okay.
[01:01:48] So I was on ships.
[01:01:49] Oh, is that right?
[01:01:50] Were you guys deploying like that or, we, when you got put in your platoon, did you say,
[01:01:56] okay, on this date, you're going to go on deployment, you're going to go to the South Pacific,
[01:02:00] or you're going to go to Southeast Asia on a ship or anything like that?
[01:02:03] Well, uh, uh, uh, not that organized, we would get assigned, and we knew that our platoon
[01:02:11] was going to go at such a such a time.
[01:02:14] You know, I think we were due to go out another six months after we got on, and, um, and
[01:02:21] we'd go, and I forgot how long the deployments were, but they were seem pretty long.
[01:02:28] So did you do one of those deployments?
[01:02:30] Well, keep talking about God intervening here.
[01:02:36] What happened to me is, um, uh, uh, we got a new CO, took, took, Mac, the pipes position.
[01:02:50] But this new CO was a guy who was a naval academy grad, and, uh, he was coming to the
[01:02:58] teams, you know, and he said, kind of, a naval academy guy going to run Macails Navy,
[01:03:05] are you kidding me?
[01:03:07] And so Bill Robinson shows up, and, uh, he took one look at me for some reason, and, uh,
[01:03:17] he said, I don't know how, I don't know if you're going to do very well in the teams.
[01:03:22] And I say, okay, he says, yeah, first thing, you need a haircut, you know, because I was
[01:03:29] really taking this role that they described in this thing seriously, but being a naval
[01:03:36] academy grad, he couldn't exactly embrace the same thing that I was embracing.
[01:03:42] And so he says, I'll tell you what, I'm good friends with Jack Sutter and Jack, so
[01:03:47] this was the head of the training department.
[01:03:49] He just, I'm going to see if I can get you a job over there.
[01:03:52] I said, who?
[01:03:53] Talk about the briar patch.
[01:03:55] Yeah.
[01:03:56] I mean, that's a hell of a deal.
[01:03:57] Yeah, you get me into the training department.
[01:03:59] Um, fine.
[01:04:00] The training department at UDT?
[01:04:02] Yeah.
[01:04:03] Okay.
[01:04:04] It building to avoid.
[01:04:05] And so, it just wasn't the distance in the training department that ran, uh, basic
[01:04:10] training.
[01:04:11] Yes.
[01:04:12] It's like, oh, it is.
[01:04:13] Yeah.
[01:04:14] So you're going to be like a UDT instructor, UDT instructor.
[01:04:17] And how long you've been into team for?
[01:04:19] Well, that was in December.
[01:04:20] I got in an August.
[01:04:22] So what September October, no one was in three months.
[01:04:26] And this guy looks at you and says you probably can be better off than the instructor.
[01:04:28] Yeah.
[01:04:29] How was that?
[01:04:30] And I was all for it.
[01:04:33] And so I went over in the training, training in it.
[01:04:37] And, um, and I just loved it.
[01:04:40] It was all for God.
[01:04:41] I mean, who?
[01:04:42] The being an instructor is a great deal.
[01:04:45] And, uh, you know, I was qualified.
[01:04:47] I mean, I could run and I could do all that stuff, you know, and I knew everything about
[01:04:52] what what trainees go through.
[01:04:55] But I had no, I did not deploy.
[01:04:58] I didn't, you know, I did, we did a couple practice runs.
[01:05:01] But I, but Bill felt that it was better for the overall organization if I was there
[01:05:06] or not with him.
[01:05:09] And, uh, so I, I was there.
[01:05:15] So I finished out my, my Navel's career there.
[01:05:17] And then, uh, how many years were you in instructor four?
[01:05:20] Two and a half years.
[01:05:21] And you put through how many classes I can.
[01:05:24] Well, there was a 30, 31, 32, 32, well, 30, class 30, 31, 32, 33 and start of 34.
[01:05:36] And my brother was in class 35.
[01:05:40] And then, um, we, uh, yeah.
[01:05:44] And he, you know, I was out by the time Danny started my brother.
[01:05:49] What, uh, what you learn about humans and their ability to push through when you were an instructor
[01:05:57] as compared to when you were going through it yourself?
[01:06:00] I never was an instructor.
[01:06:02] And so I never got to see kind of the other side of it.
[01:06:05] But I, you know, obviously got a bunch of friends at one instructor.
[01:06:07] And he was interesting.
[01:06:08] Some of the takeaways that they'd have from watching people go through these extremely
[01:06:13] stressful scenarios.
[01:06:14] You know, that's a good, that's a good point.
[01:06:18] And, uh, and a good question.
[01:06:21] And there's probably a lot about that.
[01:06:24] That's, that's profound and, and would be instructive.
[01:06:27] And I, I think I just, uh, the way I operated it was probably just, uh,
[01:06:35] on my gut, you know, and I'd see guys come into training and, and you could tell,
[01:06:42] uh, is this, this guy's going to make it or not.
[01:06:46] And it was, it was great watching them.
[01:06:49] The ones that are determined and that are really, it's like probably like being a coach,
[01:06:54] you know, it's like, I, I know my son played a water poll.
[01:06:58] And, you know, and the coaches, a good coach is, assesses his, his players.
[01:07:05] You know, really well and thoughtfully.
[01:07:07] And, uh, I think I, you could, I probably would, I remember thinking that about, I can't
[01:07:16] think of any specific case, but I would remember kind of making a judgment based on what
[01:07:24] I saw, uh, of their performance, you know, in the training.
[01:07:29] So I, I, that's about, and I couldn't, I don't guess I had, I could differentiate the
[01:07:37] ones that could make it and not, I mean, between the ones that could make it not, I could
[01:07:42] differentiate between them.
[01:07:43] But then you have a group of, of trainees that got through and, you know, other than the
[01:07:49] common deal that they were determined and focused and worked hard and committed.
[01:07:56] It seems strange, uh, that they're really, overall these years, they've never been able
[01:08:02] to figure out who's going to make it and who's not going to make it and it doesn't matter
[01:08:06] if you were, of division one wrestler or division one water polar player, you might
[01:08:11] quit and you, and you might make it, you could be a, you know, person that, like, doesn't
[01:08:16] know how to swim like you're by there.
[01:08:18] Like, you're good.
[01:08:19] You'd think never to million to the years, this person can, and they can make it.
[01:08:22] Yep, they've just not really figured it out, right?
[01:08:26] Really figured out who's going to make it and who's not going to make it.
[01:08:28] Right.
[01:08:29] Well, you know, it just reminds me there was a guy, an officer in my class, um, when we were
[01:08:36] doing the, uh, the two week pre-off sort of deal, and he was an Olympic swimmer.
[01:08:43] He was a backstrokeer and he went to Yale, um, kind of, I haven't thought about him until
[01:08:50] this moment.
[01:08:51] Uh, he, he was in my class, and I remember this other guy in my class who was a swimmer
[01:08:56] Dartmouth, and he was, you know, he knew all about good swimmers and he swam against this
[01:09:01] guy and he says, yeah, he's, he was in the Olympics.
[01:09:04] He said, oh my God.
[01:09:06] Yeah, and I remember him, and he quit after two days.
[01:09:09] You know, he couldn't run.
[01:09:11] Uh, he could swim.
[01:09:13] They're going to figure out what your weekend aren't they?
[01:09:17] Yeah.
[01:09:18] I think they're going to, yeah.
[01:09:19] It's going to, you have to be, you have to be, I was kind of lucky that I was, I was
[01:09:25] okay at kind of everything.
[01:09:27] I wasn't going to win anything.
[01:09:29] I never, I never want to rent, I don't think I ever want to run my entire time in the
[01:09:32] sealed teams.
[01:09:33] I don't think I ever want to swim back.
[01:09:34] I can know I never want to swim.
[01:09:36] But I was kind of like okay at pretty much everything.
[01:09:41] And that is a better way to be than to be an Olympic swimmer.
[01:09:44] Oh, yeah.
[01:09:45] You're going to be able to run.
[01:09:50] Yeah, you actually, that doesn't work.
[01:09:51] I think this guy's name was Dolby.
[01:09:52] I have to look him up.
[01:09:53] But, uh, yeah, I remember gosh, he was poor guy.
[01:09:57] He just wasn't built for running and all the land stuff.
[01:10:02] And if it's a good thing he never had got to the obstacle course because he probably
[01:10:06] would have died.
[01:10:07] But, well, he was creating a water though.
[01:10:12] So you spend these two and a half years putting students through seeing that side of things.
[01:10:18] And then it's just your time is up in the Navy.
[01:10:20] Yep.
[01:10:21] And you decide you're going to, you decide you're going to move on.
[01:10:23] I had to go get a job.
[01:10:25] And she, my heritage, a lot of the way I was form growing up was the whole boarding school,
[01:10:34] the corporate deal.
[01:10:35] My dad was a corporate guy.
[01:10:37] And that's actually what I'm going to be doing.
[01:10:40] And then when I got in UDT, I realized that's not how I have to live my life.
[01:10:47] But I signed up for a corporate job anyway.
[01:10:49] And I was in this management training program back in Baltimore, Maryland.
[01:10:54] And I love that the company's wonderful.
[01:10:56] It's a small, a comical company.
[01:10:58] They sell spices and the people.
[01:11:00] The nicest ones that people have met in any group.
[01:11:03] And, uh, and they were, God, they were so great to me and everything getting started.
[01:11:09] But I realized, uh, I remember my first day of work.
[01:11:14] I was up in the sixth floor of this building.
[01:11:17] And I spent the whole day in there.
[01:11:18] And as I, as it was, as it was sunny and bright when my wife taught me off of work.
[01:11:23] And then at night when I come down to about six and it was still, it was summertime.
[01:11:27] So it was still light.
[01:11:30] And I could tell it had rained during the day.
[01:11:32] And I said, what's this all about?
[01:11:35] It rained.
[01:11:36] I was in this building and I wasn't even aware of it.
[01:11:39] And I said, this is, this is not how I want to live.
[01:11:42] I don't want to live in an office.
[01:11:45] So then I stuck with a training program for a couple of years.
[01:11:49] And then I, I had to make a move.
[01:11:52] So I did.
[01:11:53] But I, and I ended up, um, a friend of mine was teaching school at Ponaill School in Hawaii.
[01:12:02] So I, uh, I said, so I rode him.
[01:12:06] I said, you got to, he got any openings out there.
[01:12:08] So he got me a job as a teacher at Ponaill.
[01:12:11] And I said, boy, from Baltimore to Hornlittle, that's not a bad switch.
[01:12:17] Uh, you're tracking your brother as he goes through training.
[01:12:23] And, you know, he's, he's doing good.
[01:12:26] Makes it through training.
[01:12:27] Yep.
[01:12:28] Um, what is he, he's writing you letters?
[01:12:30] How are you, is he calling you on the phone?
[01:12:32] How are you, how are you tracking?
[01:12:34] Like, like you said, we don't have, uh, cell phones in our pocket.
[01:12:37] I think I think you're right, right?
[01:12:39] No, it's much different, of course.
[01:12:41] But I think phone calls, uh, we would call long distance.
[01:12:45] And always cause the whole bunch of money to, to call long distance.
[01:12:49] And those days, but it wasn't that onerous.
[01:12:52] And we could, we could, we could, we knew what was going on.
[01:12:56] And, and as that's happening, and now he's in the teams.
[01:13:00] And now Vietnam is sort of in, you know, escalating very rapidly.
[01:13:05] Yeah.
[01:13:06] And is he talking to you about the fact that he's probably going to end up
[01:13:08] deploying to Vietnam?
[01:13:09] No, he was playing on going into the training unit just like I did.
[01:13:14] And I thought for sure that that would happen.
[01:13:17] But then, and he did, did one deployment in Vietnam.
[01:13:22] And then came back.
[01:13:24] And that was out of UDT deployment.
[01:13:26] Yes.
[01:13:27] He was good.
[01:13:28] 12.
[01:13:29] So he does a UDT deployment to Vietnam.
[01:13:32] And they're doing the kind of UDT stuff.
[01:13:35] Yeah.
[01:13:36] Worked a little bit.
[01:13:37] But it wasn't really, I shouldn't say that, because I've talked to a bunch of UD
[01:13:40] cut.
[01:13:41] T guys that did some really dangerous stuff.
[01:13:43] And yeah.
[01:13:44] Oh, there was, there were doing ambushes and stuff.
[01:13:47] Okay, there playing with guns.
[01:13:48] Yeah.
[01:13:49] It was, it was different.
[01:13:53] And he, and he came home, and what was his, what was it?
[01:13:55] What was it about that deployment?
[01:13:56] What do you tell you about that?
[01:13:58] Well, he, he just thought that he wasn't sure how much he and how purposeful it seemed
[01:14:10] to him.
[01:14:11] I mean, he wasn't rebellious.
[01:14:12] He was going along with the program and happy to be part of the team.
[01:14:16] And all of that.
[01:14:17] But it wasn't, he was just something he had to do.
[01:14:21] He gladiated it and got it done.
[01:14:23] But then the whole Vietnam spirit is pretty, pretty grown.
[01:14:31] Even with the teams, even with great people like UDT guys.
[01:14:34] And it's just, no one really knew what they were doing.
[01:14:39] And they'll tell you, gosh, we were over there.
[01:14:42] And we didn't, we weren't really sure what was going on.
[01:14:46] And then he did tell me like this one instance.
[01:14:51] They were setting up, they had an ambush all set up and then some VC come down in the river.
[01:14:59] And the, and Danny, Danny said that he had his gun up, and he was ready to let a rip.
[01:15:07] And then he felt this tap on it shoulder.
[01:15:09] And there was this, and let's, uh, Doc forgot his last name.
[01:15:13] But he was a medic guy.
[01:15:14] And, uh, and he said, he shook him off.
[01:15:18] And so Danny kind of lowered his weapon.
[01:15:22] And then next thing you know, there's a whole boatload of him coming down.
[01:15:27] And you know, somehow the doc was aware, Danny wasn't.
[01:15:30] But the doc said, hey, we don't, we don't want to play guns here.
[01:15:35] Just now we're outnumbered and sure enough.
[01:15:40] They got through it.
[01:15:41] But there was a, it was that kind of thing that was going on.
[01:15:44] And if you have no, no one never really knew what.
[01:15:48] It was, what was happening.
[01:15:50] And he, um, so he gets back.
[01:15:56] And then he was hoping that his next deal would be to get, get a sign to the training.
[01:16:05] And, um, but instead he got, he got a sign to seal team one.
[01:16:11] And, uh, they were heading out, they were going to deploy to Vietnam, you know, shortly.
[01:16:16] And I remember his friend of ours, Lou, he was an officer in the team.
[01:16:21] And because Danny was married and Lou said, hey, uh, and Danny was passed because he
[01:16:28] wanted to go the training.
[01:16:29] You know, and so, um, but he, he's fine with it.
[01:16:34] That's what I'm going to do.
[01:16:36] And so, Lou said, hey, you know, a single guy and he said, you know, let me take it
[01:16:40] place.
[01:16:41] I'll take it place and I'll go in the teams and you can go the training.
[01:16:45] And then, uh, he was Lou was in the training.
[01:16:47] He got it already.
[01:16:48] And, uh, Danny said, no, it's, uh, I'm going to see this through, you know, so he did.
[01:16:56] And, um, and so, just kind of the thing it works out.
[01:17:03] But, um, and then so, so he goes on to deployment of Vietnam and did you hear from him
[01:17:10] while he was over there?
[01:17:13] He's over there for about a week and I got a phone call from him.
[01:17:26] Uh, yes, uh, from the COO, COT, one of his Frank Anderson.
[01:17:36] He said that.
[01:17:43] He said that, uh, he said that, uh, Danny was killed.
[01:17:59] And I, uh, so that's the last, I heard.
[01:18:10] The first and the last I heard of that deployment.
[01:18:14] And now I was in Baltimore at the time.
[01:18:21] Did that, uh, make the COO you were sitting in all day seem even smaller?
[01:18:30] Well, I had pretty much committed to moving out of the COO of COO anyhow.
[01:18:39] So that, in, in and out of itself wasn't, wasn't a problem.
[01:18:48] But it did, it did raise, uh, you know, and then, of course, my parents were devastated
[01:18:56] and stuff as, as were the parents of 50,000 other people.
[01:19:01] And, uh, but it did, and then, uh, that was an April.
[01:19:10] And so, an August, I would, I would be coming back out for the, uh, we all, you had to
[01:19:16] go two weeks of, uh, training, um, because of the reserve.
[01:19:20] So they were still in the reserve.
[01:19:22] So I still, the reserve.
[01:19:23] So I, I was just in the, come back to Coronado and do that in August.
[01:19:29] And, uh, so, um, but I knew, I knew then I'd probably would figure out what to do something
[01:19:40] else.
[01:19:41] I actually, during that two week deal, I'd found out about Ponoho and, uh, already made
[01:19:46] a plan to get out of the cubicle.
[01:19:48] But, um, but going to, uh, but it did raise a question of, uh, you should, I go back
[01:20:00] in and because Frank asks, he says, he didn't ask me to come back in.
[01:20:06] But he said that, uh, I, I brought a, I kind of mentioned it to him.
[01:20:11] He says, boy, if you want to come back, I'd love to have you, you know, because we got
[01:20:15] it along well and actually, build Robinson, the guy that sent me to the training and we
[01:20:20] ended up becoming real close friends.
[01:20:22] But, um, but, uh, but Frank says, well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you, we could use, we need,
[01:20:29] we need people and we'd love to have you back.
[01:20:32] I said, well, I'll think about it.
[01:20:34] And, um, it was, uh, I was wrestling with that for a few months.
[01:20:41] And then, um, we got done with one of those, uh, during those two weeks, we got a lot
[01:20:48] of briefing from guys that were in Vietnam and they would, uh, tell us what was going on.
[01:20:55] And, uh, usually we were, and so we'd get, we'd listen to those.
[01:21:01] And I remember, we were out, uh, in, in a, in a break during those briefings, I know,
[01:21:08] was, we were out, kind of, smoke a cigarette and just kind of hanging out and taking a break
[01:21:13] and, and Tom Dorisi, who had just got back from Vietnam.
[01:21:17] Uh, and I were talking here, he, he, I put him through training and we were good friends.
[01:21:25] And so I, I mentioned during the deal that, uh, we still got to go in back in.
[01:21:33] And, uh, and he looked at me and he says, shook his head.
[01:21:41] He says, it's all bullshit.
[01:21:43] The Vietnam's all bullshit.
[01:21:46] He says, you, you don't want to go back in.
[01:21:50] And, uh, and for some reason, uh, I think, I think he was right about, you know, I mean,
[01:21:59] I didn't give everybody real-enless that that was, that was a mistake, it was horrible mistake.
[01:22:04] And a lot of, a lot of people, it, it cost the country a lot and, um, and it cost a lot
[01:22:13] of families a lot.
[01:22:16] So I, I, my personal decision was, you know, I put another month, I decided that no,
[01:22:24] it's, it's not the right thing to do.
[01:22:30] I, I, I, I, I guess I thought of my parents, I thought it, I, I just, I just thought about
[01:22:37] the whole Vietnam thing, I guess.
[01:22:39] And, uh, and I'm not sure exactly what caused me to come to that, come to that decision.
[01:22:48] But, um, it, it, it just, uh, just it seemed to be the right thing to do.
[01:22:57] Yeah, I can't even imagine trying, you know, you trying to tell your parents that you're
[01:23:00] going to make that decision.
[01:23:01] That doesn't seem like that would have been, been, been the right thing to do in that
[01:23:07] scenario.
[01:23:08] A, who knows, you know, I, uh, I didn't, I never really got that far, so I didn't have
[01:23:15] to really hurt my head over, uh, but I, it's a decision I made.
[01:23:22] Mm-hmm.
[01:23:23] So you stay in the reserves, though?
[01:23:25] Yes, well, you, you were obligated to.
[01:23:28] Um, so I stayed in for about seven more years and then, then got out, but it was, I was
[01:23:36] more into living in Hawaii and teaching school and, and getting, getting, getting, Ellen,
[01:23:43] kids were showing up.
[01:23:45] So, yeah, when did you start surfing?
[01:23:50] I was a right pole age of 22 and Cornell, when I first got to Cornell.
[01:23:55] And, uh, they, uh, you know, like I said, when I first pulled in there and those cars with
[01:24:02] the boards hanging out and everything were kind of just such a, so compelling.
[01:24:07] So I signed up and, uh, a butterboard, butterhobey, uh, Phil Edwards bottle and, uh, Dana
[01:24:15] Point and drove up there and got it and started surfing.
[01:24:18] Was that before Dana Point was they put all the, yeah, oh man.
[01:24:21] Yeah.
[01:24:22] Was it as good as like Malibu?
[01:24:24] How good was it?
[01:24:25] It, it usually was bigger.
[01:24:27] Yeah, it was as good as Malibu.
[01:24:30] And it was as huge and it, it's usually a, a big swell, uh, north swell.
[01:24:36] And then it was, yeah, it was, it was killer Dana.
[01:24:40] So that must have hurt, uh, being in Baltimore as well.
[01:24:43] Now you can't surf.
[01:24:44] Yeah, although I didn't go to Rojo with Beachwood.
[01:24:47] Okay.
[01:24:48] Yeah.
[01:24:49] We didn't want there a couple of times.
[01:24:51] And, uh, yeah, but it really had to get back to California.
[01:24:55] It really important.
[01:24:57] And then you end up in Hawaii, you're teaching school and art and, and you're just getting
[01:25:03] more and more, or I should say, I guess continuing to find other ways to be involved in
[01:25:06] the water at this time.
[01:25:07] Yes.
[01:25:08] And then, uh, it was, I got really interested in outwardly our canoe racing.
[01:25:14] And, um, and so I joined this canoe club and there was one other guy there that was a
[01:25:19] holy guy in the restaurant, uh, a low coin.
[01:25:23] And, uh, we got on a crew and, uh, I loved it.
[01:25:27] And became real good friends for the coaches, uh, baby bell.
[01:25:31] And he, uh, he, he was great.
[01:25:34] How long are those races?
[01:25:36] Well, they, uh, you have the regardless.
[01:25:39] And so if you're, like I was senior men in those, or about a mile and you have Boeys,
[01:25:44] you go around around.
[01:25:46] And then, uh, then you have the distance races after the, regardless season is over.
[01:25:50] And then you have the distance races, you know, there's one that runs from, um, Kylua to,
[01:25:57] uh, wakieke, twenty-something.
[01:26:00] And then the granddaddy of all the canoe races is the bullfight race.
[01:26:05] So it goes from, Holly, a little, a harbor and, on, on, on, multi-two, uh, wakieke.
[01:26:12] And so, uh, and how big, uh, what, this is, uh, how many people are in the canoe?
[01:26:16] Six.
[01:26:17] And then, like when you do those long distance races, you have nine, nine people in the
[01:26:21] canoe.
[01:26:22] And, uh, you, three are resting.
[01:26:27] And then you just change and you make water changes as you go and you change every 20 minutes or
[01:26:33] so.
[01:26:34] And it's about a six hour race.
[01:26:37] So it's, you, you, you have to be in pretty good shape.
[01:26:40] But it's, but you do, you know, you just get, that how to do in all those races.
[01:26:47] Well the first year, we, uh, let me see, I guess, the first year we were really bummed,
[01:26:54] yeah, we, we got beat by wakieke's serve and outrigger.
[01:26:59] We were third.
[01:27:01] And then the next year, we, we won it.
[01:27:07] And then the next year after that, we won it.
[01:27:10] And then, uh, and then my last year, um, I was up on the mainland starting to work for
[01:27:16] chart house, but they, they said I could come back and paddle with them and the multi-cateries.
[01:27:22] So I went back and we, we did pretty well, but we didn't win it.
[01:27:25] But it was, it was a good race.
[01:27:28] And is that what your transition was out of, uh, teaching school going to work at the
[01:27:32] chart house?
[01:27:33] It was.
[01:27:34] Yeah, I was teaching, I was working on, I was waiting on tables in wakieke, uh, while I was teaching
[01:27:39] school, I worked at Chuck Stakehouse.
[01:27:41] Uh, was at the Outrigger hotel.
[01:27:45] And buzzers stake in lobster, who's down on beach, beachwalk.
[01:27:50] And, um, yeah, I, I knew, I, I knew of, I wanted to go to work for, for the chart house, because
[01:27:58] there were a couple of UDT guys that were actually, there was one UDT guy and then Joey Cabell,
[01:28:04] who's a big time surfer that started the very first chart house in Aspen.
[01:28:10] And his name is Busy Bent.
[01:28:11] And then Busy and Ron Smith were classmates in UDT class 16, 16 or 19, but it was before
[01:28:21] me.
[01:28:22] And I became friends with Ron, who's a dynamic character and just a great personality.
[01:28:28] And he, and he was, at this point in the late 60s, he was, um, president of chart house.
[01:28:36] And then Busy was kind of retired and, uh, John was, uh, Ron was running the company.
[01:28:41] And that's, so I wrote him a letter.
[01:28:44] I said, he, I'm working at a steakhouse in W.E.
[01:28:46] K.E.
[01:28:47] You got an opening.
[01:28:48] And he says, sure.
[01:28:49] Yeah, come on.
[01:28:50] So I ended up working for the chart house.
[01:28:53] What, what did you do with the chart house?
[01:28:54] There was a chart house in Cornado when I was, when I was in Buds and when I got the
[01:28:58] sealed team one and man, I used to go to that chart house.
[01:29:02] I don't know.
[01:29:03] Like, once a week, maybe once every other,
[01:29:06] a week and get prime rib and it was weird because when I grew up, we didn't do a lot
[01:29:11] of steak when I was growing up.
[01:29:12] So I didn't even start liking steak and, and prime rib until I was like, in the
[01:29:17] Navy, because then I could buy it myself.
[01:29:19] Yeah.
[01:29:20] But we used to go, I used to go to chart house with my buddies.
[01:29:23] And, but we, and I knew, like, there was some, I had some knowledge that this was some
[01:29:28] kind of team guys that owned this thing.
[01:29:30] Yeah.
[01:29:31] But I never made any connections with everybody.
[01:29:33] I never, like, never talked to anybody, no one ever said anything about it.
[01:29:37] But so, were you involved in that chart house in the early 90s in Cornado?
[01:29:41] Well, I didn't before that.
[01:29:43] I started in 71.
[01:29:45] Oh, damn.
[01:29:46] The chart house has been around since the 70s.
[01:29:48] Yeah.
[01:29:49] I think they did the, oh, yeah.
[01:29:50] The first one, I mean, the last one was a, 1960, I think.
[01:29:55] I opened on July, July 4th.
[01:29:59] And then the second one was in Newport, and I remember, I was in the Navy when we
[01:30:04] ate it at the Newport one.
[01:30:07] And then that was the second one.
[01:30:10] And the third one was at Shelter Island.
[01:30:14] Okay.
[01:30:15] Yeah.
[01:30:16] Shelter Island.
[01:30:17] Okay.
[01:30:18] And that's when Ron joined the company.
[01:30:21] And yeah, he got out of the Navy about 64, 65, and then went to work because of
[01:30:27] the bussy.
[01:30:28] He and bussy were tight.
[01:30:30] And this is someone who said, then, bussy bent?
[01:30:32] Yeah.
[01:30:33] Not bussy Trent.
[01:30:34] Right.
[01:30:35] No, no, no, it's bussy bent.
[01:30:37] It was a great surfer himself.
[01:30:41] And so you were working as a waiter in Hawaii.
[01:30:44] Right.
[01:30:45] And you've read right these guys that led her, they're all team guys.
[01:30:47] You're an old team guy.
[01:30:48] Yeah.
[01:30:49] And they're like, yeah, we'll hire you.
[01:30:50] Yeah.
[01:30:51] Did you tell me you're a waiter?
[01:30:52] Did you tell me you had some big management position?
[01:30:53] No, I don't know.
[01:30:54] I don't know.
[01:30:55] I was a waiter.
[01:30:56] And I knew Ron fairly well at this point personally.
[01:31:03] And so he believed me.
[01:31:08] And so we had kind of a training program.
[01:31:10] This was in 71 when I came back.
[01:31:13] I came back from a little to Rdanda Beach and did a training program there for a few
[01:31:21] months.
[01:31:22] Then they ran and actually John Creed, the other guy who was an executive vice president,
[01:31:29] he was an old surf guy and water guy.
[01:31:34] And they said they were talking about, she would like to get a chart house in Hawaii.
[01:31:42] Because there was one there, but it wasn't part of the corporate chart house on the
[01:31:48] mainland.
[01:31:49] I said, well, gosh, you ought to buy a restaurant from Jerry McDonald.
[01:31:54] He has him on Maui.
[01:31:56] And so we ended up, so we ended up buying the sugar cane in, which is in Ohio.
[01:32:05] And then made a chart house out of that.
[01:32:07] And that was my first real assignment with chart houses to go open that bill that
[01:32:12] get it ready for business.
[01:32:14] And that was my first kind of real assignment.
[01:32:17] And what you're with that?
[01:32:19] That was in 1972, is when we, because Danny was born in November of 1972, we went over
[01:32:28] in December of 1972 and bought the chart house.
[01:32:33] And then we stayed there.
[01:32:35] And actually I have to, I got acknowledge the heroic wife I had at that point.
[01:32:43] He gave birth to Danny on November 11th, 1972 and December 10th or 11th, we were on Maui.
[01:32:55] She was a month old child months after giving birth.
[01:32:58] We were opening a restaurant.
[01:33:02] She, she courageously charged through it and did great.
[01:33:08] But I know what else could it do to do that.
[01:33:11] So how long were you running that chart house?
[01:33:14] I ran that baby for about a year.
[01:33:18] And then I came back to the, oh yeah, and I came back to the mainland.
[01:33:32] Oh yeah, yeah, that's right.
[01:33:34] I ran that for about a year.
[01:33:36] And then about that time chart house was getting bought by another corporation.
[01:33:42] It was a big, it was a largest franchise, the Burger King restaurant.
[01:33:45] So they, they wanted to diversify.
[01:33:48] And so they bought the chart house at that point consisted of about seven or eight restaurants.
[01:33:55] And at that point, so they asked me to come back for that to be a kind of a regional manager
[01:34:02] guy in California.
[01:34:03] So we moved back.
[01:34:06] And again, it was almost the same sort of experience I hadn't balled him.
[01:34:11] I was getting pretty corporate guys.
[01:34:13] And so how about, can I go back to Maui?
[01:34:18] And so I went back to Maui and stayed there for quite a while.
[01:34:23] Still with the chart house.
[01:34:24] I still with the chart.
[01:34:25] Yeah, I went back there and then we ran the chart house that had opened a year earlier
[01:34:32] as a manager.
[01:34:33] So I, and then we started developing restaurants in the islands.
[01:34:38] And then I became kind of a regional guy out there then.
[01:34:42] And how long did you stick it out in that business?
[01:34:46] I stuck it out.
[01:34:49] I was there.
[01:34:51] Let me see, so so many.
[01:34:53] Because the restaurant business is really hard.
[01:34:56] Well, it, it is.
[01:34:59] Although as many of us from chart house, like to say, I wouldn't work for a restaurant company
[01:35:04] unless it was a chart house.
[01:35:06] I mean, chart house was pretty, well, you just described it.
[01:35:10] It's a special place and it was.
[01:35:13] And to, in fact, today, even though chart house is no longer an existence, there was
[01:35:19] a kind of a Facebook group that has the old chart house employees, friends and so on.
[01:35:30] And their boy, they're just, it's a great group.
[01:35:33] They're very dedicated to the chart house.
[01:35:36] And he said, I remember it goes to when this happened and somebody fell in their face
[01:35:40] and the avocado dip.
[01:35:42] Yeah.
[01:35:43] And it's just, so there's a lot of history there that gets retolded in Facebook forms.
[01:35:49] Well, how long did you stick with it then?
[01:35:51] And then, well, I stuck with it until about 76, and then I built my own restaurant up in
[01:36:00] Marko Wow.
[01:36:01] And I just made it, I just ripped the chart house off.
[01:36:05] We had a salad bar.
[01:36:06] Yeah, we had our deal and, but it took off.
[01:36:11] It was a great restaurant.
[01:36:12] Very, very busy.
[01:36:14] And so we ran that for a while.
[01:36:17] We were living in Laena and it was about a 45 minute drive up to Marko Wow.
[01:36:22] And it was, I wouldn't, I was kind of getting tired of that.
[01:36:26] So I asked the chart house guys if they wanted to sell any chart houses.
[01:36:31] So I ended up buying another chart house right outside of Boston in Dr. Perry, Massachusetts.
[01:36:37] And again, my courageous wife who was pregnant with our youngest child.
[01:36:44] And we loaded up and went there and ran that restaurant for about a year.
[01:36:50] And then, our little baby Dougie was born there.
[01:36:59] And then we, and then chart house, they ended up buying that chart house.
[01:37:07] That restaurant back from me and then offered me a job back with the company in California
[01:37:14] because they were going to do a leverage buyout from Pillsbury by this time Pillsbury
[01:37:18] on the chart house.
[01:37:21] And they were going to do a leverage buyout.
[01:37:23] So the ASM came on back and helped, helped with that.
[01:37:27] So where did you go?
[01:37:28] Where did you move back to?
[01:37:29] Cornado.
[01:37:30] Back to Cornado.
[01:37:31] And what year was that?
[01:37:32] 85.
[01:37:33] And now you're still working with chart house.
[01:37:37] Yeah, are you having to go to the restaurants every day?
[01:37:39] What are you doing?
[01:37:40] Well, I was a regional manager guy.
[01:37:42] And then, oh, I was in their training department for a while.
[01:37:47] And then I was a regional manager guy.
[01:37:49] And my region is living in Coronado.
[01:37:54] But my region was in Hawaii and Colorado.
[01:37:58] And so I had three fairly nice places.
[01:38:01] I was going to say rough, rough tours.
[01:38:04] rough tour.
[01:38:05] How long did you stick with that for?
[01:38:08] That up until like time Sam Zell bought the chart house, which was in 1998 or something
[01:38:16] like that.
[01:38:18] And Sam Zell, he's a huge real estate guy.
[01:38:21] And she's losing the biggest real estate owner in the world or something like that.
[01:38:24] Like that.
[01:38:25] Yeah, I mean, I was talking with an accountant, the new him in Chicago.
[01:38:30] And she said that the saying in Chicago was that Sam jumped out of a 20-story building
[01:38:37] unit in jump after him.
[01:38:38] Because he's probably going to make money on the way down.
[01:38:42] So I started with that until 1998.
[01:38:52] And then I moved back to Coronado.
[01:39:02] And then Danny, my other boy, said that the lunch come much be a lake.
[01:39:06] And I said, geez, really.
[01:39:08] OK, so was he a lifeguard at this time?
[01:39:11] Yeah, he was at North Island.
[01:39:12] We were.
[01:39:13] And how old are you at this point?
[01:39:15] I was about to turn 50 or 60.
[01:39:22] I was about to turn 60.
[01:39:24] And he's tell you, you should become a lifeguard.
[01:39:26] Yeah.
[01:39:27] And so I went through really hard training.
[01:39:28] So this whole time, are you just in the water still and you're still working out?
[01:39:32] Are you still training?
[01:39:34] Like, how are you staying in group?
[01:39:35] I was thinking about going to a lifeguard academy at age 55 or 60 or 50.
[01:39:41] Even 40, whatever.
[01:39:42] Whatever, it was.
[01:39:46] I'm not sure.
[01:39:48] I think I went through in 1999, so I guess that's 60.
[01:39:50] Yeah, that's 60.
[01:39:51] Yeah.
[01:39:52] So you're 60 years old going through the lifeguard academy?
[01:39:54] Well, I think I was a couple of years younger, so I was in my late 50s.
[01:39:57] OK.
[01:39:58] And how are you staying in shape all this time?
[01:40:01] Oh, I worked out.
[01:40:02] So you work out every day, religiously.
[01:40:04] Yeah, even now is, and I'm about as decrepit as you can get.
[01:40:09] But I do something.
[01:40:13] It's an embarrassment.
[01:40:14] People laugh at me as I go down the beach and everything.
[01:40:17] That's tough.
[01:40:18] Now, how well, what you're eating when you're working at all these restaurants, you've
[01:40:22] got free access to all kinds of food all day and night, how are you not just power it
[01:40:28] into those, that freaking hot brown bread that they used to have in the trade house.
[01:40:33] Right?
[01:40:34] How are you not freaking putting off like 80 pounds of excess fat from that?
[01:40:37] Well, I think that's really my motive for working out.
[01:40:41] Is that, hey, if you work out hard enough to eat anything, you want it.
[01:40:45] And I said, in order to keep my eating lifestyle functioning and flourishing, then I work
[01:40:52] out.
[01:40:53] But lately, you know, I've got these children that are Nazis about food.
[01:40:58] I can't eat this.
[01:41:00] I can't eat that.
[01:41:02] So I'm a little more disciplined.
[01:41:06] So how many hours a day would you say you worked out?
[01:41:10] Like when you were, let's just say you're 40 years old.
[01:41:12] You're working at the Charter House.
[01:41:13] How many hours a day you're working out?
[01:41:14] You're going for an hour run to hour run.
[01:41:17] You're doing PT on the B-20 doing it.
[01:41:19] Well, we got into cycling too.
[01:41:22] And cyclists, they're really crazy.
[01:41:26] And so I got a little bit of French craziness out of that.
[01:41:30] We would ride, well, like my daughter and I did a, we've got a tandem bike and we rode
[01:41:36] from Aspen, Colorado to Tauce, in Mexico, which is about 250 miles.
[01:41:43] And then we rode from there to, well, we drove down to Albuquerque.
[01:41:49] And then we rode from Albuquerque back to San Diego.
[01:41:52] And she was right there with me.
[01:41:54] And we did, I don't know, hundreds of some a day, something like that.
[01:42:00] But those were, that's more long.
[01:42:03] And I think the most important thing for me is the consistency of working out.
[01:42:14] And I have a friend.
[01:42:18] He says, motion is lotion.
[01:42:21] And you know, if you keep moving, you're going to be all right.
[01:42:26] And it's like this morning.
[01:42:27] And I hadn't been in the water for a few weeks.
[01:42:35] And when I went to bed last night, I said, you're in Coronado.
[01:42:36] The first thing you knew to tomorrow is you'd get on your paddleboard and you'd go for
[01:42:40] paddle.
[01:42:42] And paddling is important for me because, like I said, I'm pretty decreed and kind of a
[01:42:48] physical disgrace.
[01:42:49] But I can still paddle, I hope.
[01:42:53] And we're going to find out tomorrow morning.
[01:42:55] So that I did go for a paddle this morning for about half an hour, 45 minutes.
[01:43:01] And then I intend to lengthen that out.
[01:43:04] But I spend some time in towels and the problem there is the paddling isn't, I mean,
[01:43:10] it can be done.
[01:43:11] But you have to go down to the rear of rain.
[01:43:13] River, which is, which I'm happy to do.
[01:43:14] But in the winter is a little nippy, you know.
[01:43:19] So when I go back, I'll probably go back next week.
[01:43:23] But I'm going to get the paddling because I got in the boy my first couple strokes off
[01:43:29] on my board this morning.
[01:43:30] It was like the tin man in the house.
[01:43:32] Man, you couldn't, she's too weird.
[01:43:37] You could hear the sirens going on.
[01:43:40] People call 911 this, Gaser.
[01:43:43] Yeah, this Gaser, he just pulled away from the dock.
[01:43:45] I don't think he's going to make it.
[01:43:48] But you know what, the miracle of paddling is by gum after about 15 or 20 minutes.
[01:43:55] The pains that I was feeling was first couple strokes.
[01:43:58] I didn't feel him anymore.
[01:44:00] And you know, okay, I'm gonna pick it up here a little bit and gee, by the end of it,
[01:44:05] I felt like he felt fine.
[01:44:08] So that's the nice solution, I guess.
[01:44:11] Exactly.
[01:44:12] So you end up going through lifeguard academy.
[01:44:15] Yep.
[01:44:16] And you actually become a lifeguard?
[01:44:18] Yeah, it becomes your job.
[01:44:19] You know what?
[01:44:20] I realized that I was kind of, I had about 10 years in with the North Island.
[01:44:27] And then I got fired because this lady took over the all lifeguard and she found that
[01:44:34] that we were drinking beer in the tower at three and I won with them.
[01:44:38] But some of these young fellows were a little less disciplined and got busted.
[01:44:44] And so I always part of that great, um, helly, and got so, you know, I ended up.
[01:44:52] So you got fired as a lifeguard.
[01:44:54] Now you're what you were like 60 years old, 60 something years old for being a miscreen
[01:45:00] drinking beer on the job.
[01:45:01] I was getting the house getting in my 60s.
[01:45:04] I, and I wasn't, I wasn't even part of the fire.
[01:45:06] I just fired everybody.
[01:45:07] Well, she fired that group.
[01:45:11] And then I was up, it was in New Mexico or something.
[01:45:14] And I came back and I wanted my job back and she just wouldn't give it back to me.
[01:45:18] So I guess I didn't actually get fired, but I sure didn't get a rear.
[01:45:23] So then Coronado, I don't know if Sean Kerry, who's the captain down there, there's
[01:45:29] a wonderful human being.
[01:45:31] And he said, he said, he said, well, Doug, you know, I tried out that same, that same
[01:45:39] thing.
[01:45:40] Yeah, we both, they say, yeah, it was one, it was a human youngest son, try out for
[01:45:44] the lifeguards at the same time.
[01:45:46] Yeah, were we, was that the summer before you got married?
[01:45:51] Yeah, I think it was.
[01:45:53] I think it was.
[01:45:54] Yeah, he and I go, oh yeah, that was it.
[01:45:56] No, we're eight of us that were going to be applying to be a lifeguard job.
[01:46:04] And so the guy that was running the PT stuff that we had to do in order to qualify,
[01:46:14] he had us all up and then, and the first thing was a swim, I got to the buoy and back,
[01:46:19] and then we had to run up the beach to the other end of the beach, you know, 150 yards or
[01:46:23] something like that.
[01:46:24] And then there were a couple of little deals like that.
[01:46:28] And remember, there were eight of us, and half of our girls.
[01:46:33] And Dougie was first on all the events, and I was last on all the events.
[01:46:40] And I remember after that, first one, he went running up the beach, and I got to, and
[01:46:46] there was Dougie was at the finish line already.
[01:46:49] He was tall, though, I think he's right having a sandwich by the time I got there.
[01:46:53] And so I finally got there.
[01:46:55] And then this guy was timing it.
[01:46:58] I kind of bent over, holding myself up, I'm propin' myself up on the knees, and I kind
[01:47:06] of saw him out mouth to Dougie, I said, I did that.
[01:47:10] He said, yeah, you're good, you're good.
[01:47:13] So I guess I got there just in time.
[01:47:17] But so then they hired me.
[01:47:20] And then the second year, and I was hired with a city, and then the next year, I was
[01:47:30] off for the wintertime, because they let everybody go.
[01:47:33] But the next, that summer I was invited back, and I went down to the tower, and I said,
[01:47:39] kind of, do we have that PT stuff?
[01:47:42] I saw you guys start training for that, and the sergeant there at the time, he says, no,
[01:47:47] you've already been on, you don't have to do that.
[01:47:51] Those events say him more.
[01:47:55] It's like I say, you know, God has had a hand and spared me through a lot of stuff, but
[01:48:01] I didn't have to.
[01:48:02] So I stayed on for about 10 years.
[01:48:06] And then about a year and a half ago, two years, I guess, I've missed a couple of summers,
[01:48:13] and it's a heartbreak.
[01:48:15] I tried by there and wistfully look out at the tower I used to work in, and I wish I had
[01:48:23] my old job back, but it's a hearing deal.
[01:48:27] Some doctor just jab me on the hearing, he said, I couldn't hear certain voices because
[01:48:39] they were a certain range.
[01:48:41] And so anyhow, I couldn't qualify as a lifeguard anymore.
[01:48:46] And I argued that, well, I'm not sure that hearing is that big a part of lifeguard, but
[01:48:55] anyhow I can't find so.
[01:48:56] Yeah, I walked away, begrudgingly.
[01:48:59] Now, it seems like a long the way I've talked to some of the, I guess it's the next
[01:49:03] generation, maybe a seal's a little bit younger than me, maybe 10 years behind me.
[01:49:09] And I guess it's when you were in Cornado that you developed a bunch of relationships
[01:49:13] and mentored a bunch of these, the next generation guys coming up, they all love you.
[01:49:17] Well, they were wonderful guys.
[01:49:19] I mean, I should have all come about.
[01:49:22] Well, lifeguarding, there was Sam was at the beach, peppers at the beach.
[01:49:34] And then Charlie, who was Charlie Keating, who, wow, he, I've known him because he was a
[01:49:46] Sony and he would come over and he's just this wonderful kid.
[01:49:52] And he started coming over when he was like 13, 14 years old.
[01:49:55] And then that's what you remember him Chuck Keating when he was 13, 14 years old.
[01:49:59] Yeah, because he was a little older.
[01:50:00] Yeah, because he was a little older.
[01:50:01] Yeah, because he was a little older.
[01:50:02] And I would say it, my house.
[01:50:05] Okay.
[01:50:06] We're dug a way out of you.
[01:50:07] How did you, how did that happen?
[01:50:08] Well, well, his cousin Bobby and Mikey were, their names were a lot.
[01:50:17] But they're Keating family and kids.
[01:50:19] And Charlie was one of their cousins.
[01:50:21] God, one of their 800 cousins, you know, and Catholics, you know.
[01:50:26] So, they, but so that's how I got acquainted with Charlie and became a dear friend and
[01:50:34] wonderful guy, you know, just just a great guy.
[01:50:36] And so in the summers, it sounds from talking to some of his friends that you are kind
[01:50:41] of the reason he decided to go in the teams.
[01:50:46] I, I, not aware of that.
[01:50:48] I, necessarily.
[01:50:49] I knew, well, his dad did call me and said, hey, Lance, Charlie is talking about going
[01:50:56] in the teams to you.
[01:50:58] I said, can you, I said, well, I'll do anything I can.
[01:51:01] So I looked at, I think I found a name or something.
[01:51:04] I didn't do much of anything or a way except refer to somebody who really could help him.
[01:51:11] And so that's how he got in the teams.
[01:51:13] And then, but I'm real close with that whole family.
[01:51:16] And Charlie, who was killed, his dad's name, his name is Charlie also.
[01:51:26] And he knew about my brother, Danny.
[01:51:28] And so there's, and then Charlie's brother, Billy, is also in the teams or was in the
[01:51:37] teams.
[01:51:38] I think he's getting out.
[01:51:40] I knew about my brother and so there's a, there's a kinship there that we, we feel as
[01:51:47] family.
[01:51:49] And we, you know, we, we stay in touch.
[01:51:54] And on May, I think it's May 3rd, is that when Charlie was killed in 2016, was that 2016,
[01:52:02] he was killed.
[01:52:04] And so, waiting how Charlie and I, you know, when I go to Rhodes Grands, I'll take
[01:52:08] a picture and send it to him and, and that's one thing good about these damn iPhones, you
[01:52:13] know, you can communicate boom when you want to, you know.
[01:52:17] And yeah, he's definitely a special guy.
[01:52:22] I mean, I, when he was coming up in the teams, you know, I was in a position where I was
[01:52:28] teaching land war for him stuff like that.
[01:52:31] So, you know.
[01:52:32] And so, I, I would see faces, you know, I'd see guys.
[01:52:34] But unless someone was either really good or really bad, I probably wouldn't remember
[01:52:39] me and, you know, he was, you know, one of the guys, I remember this guy.
[01:52:43] And, but man, like some of the, like the stories you hear about about Chuck is just like
[01:52:48] he was just freaking epic guy.
[01:52:50] Um, yeah.
[01:52:51] And he's one of those guys, you know, you look at all these pictures of them that you just,
[01:52:55] you just know that this guy was just such an awesome guy to have in your cartoon.
[01:53:01] And he left such a mark on so many of the team guy buddies of his and got a great thing
[01:53:07] going now.
[01:53:08] They got the C4 Ranch up here in San Diego, which is a beautiful place, a bunch of awesome
[01:53:12] people.
[01:53:13] And it gives, gives guys a place to be able to go and unwind and take their families and spend
[01:53:19] time in nature and all that kind of stuff.
[01:53:21] So, the, his, his name is, is living on and he's still helping the, his brother seals
[01:53:28] through that thing that he's doing.
[01:53:29] Yeah, yeah, no, for sure.
[01:53:32] It's a great legacy.
[01:53:34] And very worthwhile.
[01:53:35] And, and I know his dad's involved and then, uh, broke his wife, I think he's really involved.
[01:53:43] So, yeah, it's, it's important.
[01:53:45] It's significant.
[01:53:46] And, that, yeah, they found a great piece of property up there.
[01:53:50] And I think it, I think it's, sir, sir, uh, it's filling out the mission in a great way.
[01:53:56] Yeah, yep.
[01:53:57] Yep.
[01:53:58] You retired, I guess, from the lifeguarding thing, that's what happened.
[01:54:02] And so, and so, what do you up to now?
[01:54:05] Uh, you know, that's kind of a problem.
[01:54:09] Uh, drinking beer with the, well, drink beer with the youngs.
[01:54:12] Yeah, I, I, I, I, I lately, uh, I spend more time feeling sorry for myself than I
[01:54:21] should, you know.
[01:54:22] And, and then Doug, and I, we were talking, and, um, we, uh, actually, um, I got involved
[01:54:31] with, with Doug, um, my son, who, and then this guy Sam, uh, Blair down in Louisiana, uh,
[01:54:39] who was in the teams and then moved to Louisiana.
[01:54:42] And they, they started talking about, uh, developing, um, a coffee company.
[01:54:49] And, uh, and Doug, you know, we're just chatting about it.
[01:54:52] And, uh, and I started thinking, God, it's just a, the wonderful thing that's coming to
[01:55:00] me that I can participate in.
[01:55:02] And so, though you, as asked me to, well, we, we just chat, we just naturally assume that
[01:55:08] I would have a, a small role in nothing too responsible, or that requires any talent or anything.
[01:55:15] But something that I could be involved with myself with.
[01:55:19] And, uh, I mean, it was, uh, the God thing again, you know, maybe it is a blessing of
[01:55:27] sort.
[01:55:28] So, we've just been filling around with it for a few weeks, but, um, we, we want to start
[01:55:33] to coffee company.
[01:55:34] And, um, and because we're pretty sure we've got a great source.
[01:55:40] There's a guy down at Louisiana who is the sole importer of this, uh, of this coffee,
[01:55:50] and it's growing in Honduras.
[01:55:51] And the only, only, the only importer in the U.S. is importing this coffee.
[01:55:56] And it's coming from Louisiana, which I love, you know, it's cost of, like, from New
[01:56:00] Orleans.
[01:56:01] I mean, going, you know.
[01:56:03] And so, uh, it's all sort of coming together.
[01:56:06] And, um, and so at 82 soon to be 83, you know, there were, there were times, because
[01:56:15] like my, my roommate from Tulane, who was 83, great deal older than me.
[01:56:20] He was 83.
[01:56:21] And he's told me he says, hey, man, you don't, you don't want to be 83.
[01:56:25] That's really rough.
[01:56:26] You know, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's just telling me.
[01:56:36] That, uh, it's not good.
[01:56:38] So there are a couple of, ever since I got, couldn't make, couldn't pass a hearing
[01:56:44] taste test because I'm so, God damn old.
[01:56:47] And so I can't pass a hearing test.
[01:56:49] I can no longer do what I love to do.
[01:56:53] And, uh, be with people.
[01:56:54] I love to be.
[01:56:55] And, you know, I'd wake up in the morning.
[01:56:57] And I, and I, I remember one morning, I woke up and I looked, you know, I just kind
[01:57:03] of look at over the side of my bed and I could see, I can see some dust balls under this
[01:57:08] table near my bed and I said, you know, that's probably about the most important thing
[01:57:15] you got on your list to do.
[01:57:17] It's clean.
[01:57:18] It's got damn puff balls up.
[01:57:20] And I said, man, life's got to be better than this.
[01:57:22] We got to do something.
[01:57:24] And so, when we started talking about developing a coffee company, um, I, I'm really excited
[01:57:31] about it.
[01:57:32] And I'm with, uh, I probably wanted to create a guy's, I know, with my fourth child.
[01:57:40] And, uh, he's artistic and comes up with great ideas and he's an entrepreneurial and
[01:57:46] spirit.
[01:57:47] Uh, yeah.
[01:57:48] Hell yeah.
[01:57:49] Well, we're going to make a coffee company by Gale.
[01:57:54] And, uh, so it's obviously, we've just starting it.
[01:57:59] We think it's going to be great.
[01:58:00] Well, we know it's going to be great.
[01:58:02] But, uh, and, you know, I'm, that's what I'm doing now.
[01:58:05] I'm a coffee guy now.
[01:58:06] I'm kind of the Colonel Sanders of coffee.
[01:58:10] Yeah.
[01:58:11] I'm pretty excited.
[01:58:12] What's the idea of the coffee company to get a big, called big yellow coffee?
[01:58:15] Big yellow.
[01:58:16] What's that all about?
[01:58:18] Well, you, you didn't want to wear a bit when you, when you came up to us as we were
[01:58:23] out in the parking lot, but my van.
[01:58:25] Oh, the van is a big yellow.
[01:58:26] Big yellow.
[01:58:27] I had that puppy since Dougie was a junior in high school.
[01:58:31] And so, um, it, uh, so that we got, and, you know, because, like I said, the guys are
[01:58:39] artistic as hell, he designed the coffee bag for it and everything.
[01:58:43] And, uh, it's the big yellow coffee company.
[01:58:47] And if you don't think the coffee isn't going to go flying off the shelf, man, you
[01:58:52] haven't lived.
[01:58:53] It's going to be great.
[01:58:54] I, I, I really, from what I know about coffee, I expect to know a lot more from now on,
[01:59:03] you know, but, uh, I, the, the, the components sound good.
[01:59:08] I mean, this guy is a soul, um, the importer of the coffee of this particular coffee from, uh,
[01:59:17] Honduras.
[01:59:18] And the thing that's really significant about this coffee guy is that he's the only one
[01:59:24] that we're going to buy coffee from.
[01:59:26] And we're, uh, we don't, we're not going to buy, like, you know, he's a soul, uh,
[01:59:33] distributor.
[01:59:34] This kind of a soul grow, right?
[01:59:37] Yeah, he's a kind of Honduras.
[01:59:38] He's a kind of Honduras.
[01:59:39] He's a kind of Honduras.
[01:59:40] He's a kind of Honduras.
[01:59:41] Yeah, it's going to be a single, single origin, um, source.
[01:59:47] Do we have a, do we have a website yet?
[01:59:50] It's in, in the works.
[01:59:52] In the works.
[01:59:53] Yeah.
[01:59:54] What's the, what's the website?
[01:59:55] Big yellow coffee.
[01:59:56] Big yellow coffee.
[01:59:58] Yeah.
[01:59:59] Yeah.
[02:00:00] And if, uh, if you can't get through right away, just be patient, uh, you'll be able
[02:00:05] to get it.
[02:00:06] Well, it sounds like that brings us up to present date.
[02:00:11] Probably probably good place to stop.
[02:00:13] Uh, we have to give echo.
[02:00:15] Yes.
[02:00:16] The opportunity.
[02:00:17] You know, I'm sure there's some maybe some Hawaiian questions coming up.
[02:00:19] Oh, I sure we got.
[02:00:20] Sure.
[02:00:21] Very, very small blood significant.
[02:00:22] Oh, sure.
[02:00:23] So the place up in Mako Wow, that was a chart house?
[02:00:26] No, no.
[02:00:27] Well, it was, it was mine.
[02:00:28] It was called Mako Wow steak house.
[02:00:30] And I owned it myself.
[02:00:32] Mako Wow up country.
[02:00:33] Also known as up country.
[02:00:35] Maui by the way.
[02:00:36] Yeah.
[02:00:37] Yeah.
[02:00:38] Also the, wasn't even a beer canoe club.
[02:00:41] Hey, a lolly.
[02:00:42] Hmm.
[02:00:43] Hey, a lolly canoe club.
[02:00:44] And then what did you teach at Puno?
[02:00:46] Uh, I taught fifth grade for the first two years.
[02:00:50] And then my last year, I went from what from the fifth grade to the academy.
[02:00:58] And I taught ninth and tenth grade English there.
[02:01:00] The Barack Obama go there.
[02:01:02] Did you teach Barack Obama?
[02:01:03] Well, you know, I was going to say what it was interesting is, uh, I had I remained in
[02:01:11] for teaching fifth grade.
[02:01:14] I would, he, he came in that next fifth grade class where I went up to the academy,
[02:01:19] which again, God, you know, for him, his, he felt he was saved.
[02:01:24] Yeah, yeah, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was, he was
[02:01:27] in the, he was in the, he was in the, he was in the, a surfer somewhere.
[02:01:29] Yeah, he, yeah, he, he made, he made a, he made a great water guy.
[02:01:32] I don't know.
[02:01:33] He, yeah, no, he, he, he dodged a bullet.
[02:01:37] And then the Chuck steak house and the outrigger, which outriggers, I mean, back in, because
[02:01:43] not outriggers everywhere.
[02:01:44] Yeah, he, he, he, he, he, oh, there's, there's a bunch.
[02:01:47] Yeah, oh, nowadays.
[02:01:48] Yeah, in a corner.
[02:01:49] Yeah.
[02:01:50] Okay, so at, at the one right there and right there at Waikeki Beach, the mean one where
[02:01:56] Duke says no, in that next, huh?
[02:01:58] Yeah, yeah.
[02:01:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:02:00] Yeah, yeah.
[02:02:01] Yeah, it was a couple of floors above.
[02:02:03] Yeah, yeah.
[02:02:04] Yeah, yeah.
[02:02:05] Yeah, yeah.
[02:02:06] And yeah, next to the Moana hotel.
[02:02:07] Yep.
[02:02:08] That's where we stayed last time we went.
[02:02:09] No, there you go, boom.
[02:02:10] Yeah.
[02:02:11] So that Duke's.
[02:02:12] But Chuck, he, he's a, he'd be a great, he's, another guy, he, well, Chuck,
[02:02:18] Chuck Rolls and guys, the start Chuck steak houses.
[02:02:21] Wonderful guy, I'm hoping he's still alive,
[02:02:24] but I don't know.
[02:02:26] He's a geaser.
[02:02:27] Well, we even had what hope he still alive.
[02:02:29] We're gonna have to spow up with a butt on that one.
[02:02:31] Let's just call him.
[02:02:32] We still have a jury still alive.
[02:02:35] Sure, awesome.
[02:02:35] Awesome.
[02:02:37] Lance, you got any closing thoughts you want to close out with?
[02:02:40] Just thank you very much for the opportunity.
[02:02:43] We're shade it nice to meet you at Goal Ender.
[02:02:46] And you too.
[02:02:48] But yeah, no, I guess that's all.
[02:02:52] I'm just grateful.
[02:02:53] And thank you.
[02:02:55] Well, right on, like I said, I actually heard about you
[02:03:01] through this young generation of the generation,
[02:03:03] I guess the generation behind me,
[02:03:05] I want to make myself sound older, make them sound young.
[02:03:07] They're all grown men that are deep into the teams now,
[02:03:11] but those were the guys that kind of told me about
[02:03:14] what you passed onto them.
[02:03:15] So it's awesome to have you on here.
[02:03:18] And thanks for sharing some of those lessons learned
[02:03:20] and thanks for your service.
[02:03:22] And thanks for the service and sacrifice
[02:03:25] of your brother as well.
[02:03:28] We owe everything to you guys that put in the work
[02:03:31] in the early days and created the tradition
[02:03:35] that we all try and uphold.
[02:03:37] So thanks for joining us.
[02:03:39] Thanks for everything you and your family have done.
[02:03:42] Thank you.
[02:03:42] And with that, Lance Man has left the building.
[02:03:49] Uh, pretty awesome.
[02:03:52] Got it.
[02:03:53] Hang out with for a couple hours.
[02:03:55] Yeah.
[02:03:56] And by the way, just note, multiple times, multiple times,
[02:04:01] he kind of referred to himself as like,
[02:04:03] decrepit and all this stuff.
[02:04:05] This dude's 80, three years old, 82 years old,
[02:04:08] almost say three years old.
[02:04:09] He is not decrepit.
[02:04:11] No. And he is in great shape.
[02:04:15] And I'm sure maybe he's not in this good shape
[02:04:17] as he was when he was 22 years old,
[02:04:19] going through UDT training.
[02:04:21] But what an awesome guy.
[02:04:23] And you know, live in it.
[02:04:25] Yeah.
[02:04:26] Yeah, you know how you can tell.
[02:04:28] Like even young people, younger people, whatever.
[02:04:30] Kind of just when they walk up to you
[02:04:32] and you know how they kind of talk and pull themselves
[02:04:34] and walk from here to there.
[02:04:35] You can kind of tell.
[02:04:36] You know, you have a small little gauge of, oh.
[02:04:39] And yeah, when he rolls up,
[02:04:40] it's kind of like, it's pretty impressive for 82.
[02:04:43] Just tell you just rolling up.
[02:04:44] Yeah, well, actually you just don't even think he's 82.
[02:04:47] Yeah.
[02:04:48] You just, you think maybe he looks old for,
[02:04:51] you know, that's kind of looks pretty old for a 51 year old.
[02:04:54] Yeah.
[02:04:54] You know what I'm saying?
[02:04:55] Yeah, yeah.
[02:04:55] That's kind of the impression you get from the way he's
[02:05:00] carrying himself.
[02:05:00] So definitely a, a definitely a stud.
[02:05:04] And pretty cool.
[02:05:05] The fact that he's had this influence on like this younger
[02:05:07] generation at, hey, I like it again.
[02:05:09] I'm, I, I feel like I sound like I'm being condescending
[02:05:13] when I call the guys kind of, whatever behind me,
[02:05:18] not right behind me, but you know, like 10 years, 15 years
[02:05:21] behind me and the teams, that's sort of the next generation.
[02:05:23] I don't even know if that means next generation.
[02:05:26] But this guy was a real mentor and inspiration
[02:05:29] to a bunch of those guys.
[02:05:30] So that's kind of how I heard about him
[02:05:32] and pretty cool to have him on here
[02:05:35] and talk through some of this stuff.
[02:05:37] And definitely a, you know, there's a couple things
[02:05:40] I heard about him.
[02:05:41] I was like, one thing I heard about him.
[02:05:42] And we didn't bring this up again.
[02:05:43] You know, I look back and was like, I'm like,
[02:05:45] apparently he just never wears a wet suit when surfing
[02:05:48] and stuff, which is, you know, this dude is,
[02:05:51] you know, with all like cold, cold immersion, you know,
[02:05:53] I have an ice bath, you know, taking a,
[02:05:55] he's just going surfing at two hours with no wet suit,
[02:05:58] which by the way, is cold in Southern California.
[02:06:00] It's cold.
[02:06:01] That's not warm.
[02:06:02] Hawaii's is warm.
[02:06:04] You know, really need a wet suit.
[02:06:06] Did you ever wear a wet suit when you're sponging in Hawaii?
[02:06:08] No, never.
[02:06:09] So you don't really need a wet suit in Hawaii.
[02:06:12] Correction, you don't need a wet suit.
[02:06:14] You don't need a wet suit in Hawaii.
[02:06:16] Especially when you compare to here.
[02:06:18] Oh, yeah.
[02:06:19] Even the coldest of in Hawaii, it's kind of like,
[02:06:20] okay, I'll get out after three hours.
[02:06:23] Usually it's like eight night hours.
[02:06:24] You can be in the water.
[02:06:25] Yeah.
[02:06:26] That is so luxury isn't it.
[02:06:28] Hawaii's kind of a little bit of paradise isn't it?
[02:06:31] No way.
[02:06:31] Can you imagine he moved from Baltimore to Hawaii?
[02:06:34] Yeah, very different.
[02:06:35] That's a game changer.
[02:06:38] So awesome to have him in on here is obviously he was
[02:06:44] difficult for him to talk about his brother,
[02:06:46] even after all these years, brother kind of followed his
[02:06:49] footsteps and ended up being killed in Vietnam.
[02:06:53] And I read a little bit about that.
[02:06:55] He, they were basically in a gunfight on a ship,
[02:07:00] in a gunfight on a ship,
[02:07:04] on a small boat.
[02:07:06] And they took some either mortars or rocket fire
[02:07:11] and ended up killing two seals.
[02:07:16] We attended J.G.
[02:07:18] Dan Man who we talked about,
[02:07:19] but also another seal named last name of Boston
[02:07:22] and then another one named Neal who died of wounds later.
[02:07:27] And that's another thing that you get to hear
[02:07:32] this incredible life and these adventures
[02:07:36] that Lance Man has been on.
[02:07:38] And you know, we know, I know he knows
[02:07:43] that his brother didn't get those opportunities.
[02:07:46] And that's something that we all need to think about.
[02:07:51] You know, all the guys that didn't come home
[02:07:54] and the fact that we get this opportunity to go
[02:07:57] and surf without a wet suit and go and become a lifeguard at 55 years old.
[02:08:02] And go and open up restaurants and move around the world.
[02:08:04] And like all those things are opportunities
[02:08:07] that we have because of people that made this sacrifice for us.
[02:08:13] So definitely something to think about.
[02:08:21] With that, thanks for listening to the podcast.
[02:08:24] Thanks for supporting.
[02:08:25] You know, we did feed Lance Man some he had some go.
[02:08:30] He's fired up to by two.
[02:08:32] He was a little surprised when he tasted it.
[02:08:33] It's like all this is good.
[02:08:34] Yeah.
[02:08:35] So if you notice he didn't touch his water.
[02:08:37] No, he went all the way.
[02:08:38] He chose the go.
[02:08:39] He will all go.
[02:08:40] He chose go.
[02:08:41] Yeah.
[02:08:42] He that's we're you ever, or I'm sitting here listening
[02:08:46] to the whole deal.
[02:08:47] And then you know how, I don't know, it's like this weird map.
[02:08:49] Maybe a alone on this, maybe I'm not.
[02:08:51] But it's this weird map where it's like you kind of think,
[02:08:53] oh yeah, when you're like in high school or whatever, it's like that's a
[02:08:56] certain period of your life and it's like, you're whole life ahead of you.
[02:08:59] Then you get your 20s.
[02:09:00] Okay.
[02:09:01] And then you 30s you kind of hit your groove 40s.
[02:09:04] And then once you hit like 50 ish, you kind of are like, okay,
[02:09:07] you're kind of like, like, retires and the destiny is already known.
[02:09:10] Yeah, exactly.
[02:09:12] And you're kind of in retirement mode a little bit.
[02:09:13] You take your foot off the gas.
[02:09:15] You know, and then 60 is kind of like your straight up retired.
[02:09:17] You're losing.
[02:09:19] That's kind of the map.
[02:09:20] You kind of have maybe subconsciously.
[02:09:22] And bro, he's like talking about like, oh yeah, let me be a lifeguard
[02:09:25] and making it past the test of my brow.
[02:09:26] You're not realizing the map that we're all thinking about you.
[02:09:30] And then you think about it.
[02:09:31] Oh, wait, he just had a different kind of attitude where he was like,
[02:09:34] oh, no, we're still going right now.
[02:09:37] Like it's not over like we're still going, whatever.
[02:09:39] Then you kind of consider it.
[02:09:40] Oh, wait, you can do that.
[02:09:41] Yeah.
[02:09:42] And if you do, it's kind of, I mean, this is just kind of deduction really.
[02:09:46] But thinking mad, if you have that attitude, it's kind of like you can live
[02:09:49] like a whole another life in a way.
[02:09:51] Where he's like 82, Brett, let's face it.
[02:09:54] If I even live to 82, am I going to be like, what the hell?
[02:09:59] You know, it feels like I've been done for like 20 years already.
[02:10:03] But he's just like mad that he's even smelling the darkness, even though he's not.
[02:10:08] I know what the coffee thing.
[02:10:09] Yeah.
[02:10:10] Well, it's, you know, you said, you said it's not over.
[02:10:13] Right?
[02:10:14] You ever seen like the kid in the wrestling tournament or the kid in the basketball
[02:10:19] game or whatever and like they're kind of losing.
[02:10:22] But there's one kid that he's not done yet.
[02:10:23] It's not over yet.
[02:10:24] Right.
[02:10:25] And he's mine.
[02:10:26] It's not over.
[02:10:27] We're not done with this game.
[02:10:28] And sometimes that kid can turn sparked and come back and make things happen and get the
[02:10:33] victory.
[02:10:35] Yeah.
[02:10:36] It's pretty wild.
[02:10:37] And so that attitude of its, you know, when my daughter was wrestling, uh, when she was
[02:10:46] in trying to make it through the state and in order to make it through the state, you
[02:10:50] got to win first, second or third.
[02:10:53] And her first day, she lost a match.
[02:10:57] She won a cup.
[02:10:58] She won a few, she won quite a few matches, but she lost a match, which means the next
[02:11:01] day, she was going to have to win every single match, which is hard to do.
[02:11:07] This is, this is now high level.
[02:11:08] This isn't playing around.
[02:11:09] We're trying to get to state championships in California, which is a big deal.
[02:11:13] And we're actually out in a place in the Imperial Valley of California called
[02:11:18] Brawley.
[02:11:19] And Brawley is a great athletic school.
[02:11:23] And they have, because it's out in the middle of the desert, these are tough, hard
[02:11:27] working kids.
[02:11:28] Their athletic programs are super hard core because they have nothing else to do.
[02:11:31] They live in Brawley, right?
[02:11:33] You know, I got, I got a friend that's from Brawley's in the teams.
[02:11:35] And, you know, he's like, you're in Brawley, bro, that's what you're going to do.
[02:11:39] You're just like, that's what you're going to do.
[02:11:40] You're going to fight.
[02:11:41] You're going to wrestle.
[02:11:42] You don't play football.
[02:11:43] So, my daughter, she knows that, you know, that night, she's thinking, if she loses
[02:11:49] one match, she's not going to state.
[02:11:50] There's her senior year, right?
[02:11:54] That night, and she was underweight.
[02:11:57] So she wasn't even close to like the high end of her weight.
[02:12:00] Brawley, she probably, she could have cut weight a few pounds and gone one way, scrapped
[02:12:04] down, but she didn't do that.
[02:12:07] So anyways, we like, she loses, she doesn't even talk to me on the way back to the hotel.
[02:12:12] She just angry.
[02:12:14] And not even not.
[02:12:15] She wasn't really angry.
[02:12:16] She was kind of like a little bit sad, you know?
[02:12:18] She said, wasn't talking to me, wasn't talking to anybody.
[02:12:21] We get back there.
[02:12:22] I said, you want somebody, and she says, yeah, that's what he wants.
[02:12:24] She's like, pizza hut.
[02:12:25] So we order a bunch of pizza hut, whatever.
[02:12:29] And, you know, she still underweight, but she goes out the next day.
[02:12:35] And like, I saw a little look in her face.
[02:12:38] That was like, it's not old.
[02:12:40] This is an older.
[02:12:42] And she won her first match.
[02:12:45] And you could see almost like a sort of vibe coming over.
[02:12:50] And then she won her next match.
[02:12:52] And she won her next match.
[02:12:53] And then it wasn't her last match of the day, but her toughest match of the day, where
[02:12:57] in Brawley and she's wrestling against a girl from Brawley.
[02:13:01] And these croiss scrap respect to Brawley.
[02:13:06] And they had a brawl.
[02:13:09] Then my daughter won.
[02:13:10] And, and, but you know, it's that attitude.
[02:13:12] And then she ended up going to states, but that attitude of it's not over yet.
[02:13:17] But it's not over.
[02:13:19] And to have that attitude with life, that's a little less in learned for everybody today.
[02:13:25] A little less in learned for everybody.
[02:13:27] It's not over.
[02:13:28] But I felt it.
[02:13:29] I felt like he was kind of going harder at 82 than I am right now.
[02:13:32] I kind of had that feeling.
[02:13:34] You know, I'd say that's an accurate statement.
[02:13:38] Awesome.
[02:13:40] All right.
[02:13:41] If you want to support the podcast, you want to support yourself.
[02:13:43] You want to stay in good shape.
[02:13:44] You want to do, you want to get some, some Lance Man, Jockel fuel in your system.
[02:13:48] Go to jockelfield.com, get yourself some energy drinks that are actually good for you.
[02:13:54] Stay in good shape and in good health.
[02:13:55] Yes, good.
[02:13:56] Keep it right.
[02:13:57] And then keep you going.
[02:13:58] Keep you right in the game across the board.
[02:13:59] Get yourself some protein.
[02:14:00] Look, we can't afford to go to chart house every night.
[02:14:02] Too long to get.
[02:14:03] Right.
[02:14:04] Now, maybe when you're at E5 team guy like how's it?
[02:14:07] Four team guy going to chart house.
[02:14:08] We're going to get that prime rib.
[02:14:10] So what is chart house?
[02:14:11] It's a restaurant.
[02:14:12] It's a nice restaurant.
[02:14:13] Oh, restaurant.
[02:14:14] Is it like a couple?
[02:14:15] You didn't even know it was a restaurant.
[02:14:16] It's a straight up restaurant.
[02:14:17] And there was one in Coronado that was all, it's a different restaurant now.
[02:14:20] But it was on, it was, it was like a boat house.
[02:14:23] It was on the water.
[02:14:24] It was like a dock basically, real nice.
[02:14:26] And it was one of those things too when you're young.
[02:14:29] Like a young person is like a 20, 20 year old kid in supposed to be going to the chart
[02:14:34] out because you don't have enough money for it unless you have a day.
[02:14:36] So you're young team guy.
[02:14:37] Did you like up there order in that $22 prime rib back in 91?
[02:14:42] You're like your kind of a boss.
[02:14:44] Right?
[02:14:45] Kind of a boss like hey, normal in the chart house?
[02:14:47] You're like a business person, right?
[02:14:49] There's people in there with like shirts, like real like whatever.
[02:14:53] Nice shirts and stuff.
[02:14:54] You know?
[02:14:55] So wait, this is the chart house.
[02:14:57] What's the dynamic when you go in there?
[02:14:58] Is it like a military?
[02:14:59] No, no, no, no.
[02:15:00] It's just more higher in.
[02:15:01] No, it's not.
[02:15:02] Well, it was created by team guys, right?
[02:15:05] So it's kind of chill like the waiters and waitresses would be wearing like Hawaiian shirts.
[02:15:11] But they're also charging you know like $29 for a piece of meat, right?
[02:15:15] So it's well, and that's back then.
[02:15:17] So like today a BD equivalent of like probably 40 bucks, you know, 50 bucks per main course.
[02:15:25] Yeah, yeah, so yeah, you're right.
[02:15:26] So like if you're, if you don't have some money, yeah, whatever, that's going to be a
[02:15:31] not just casual one.
[02:15:32] Yeah, unless you're a young guy in the teams, you have no expenses other than just
[02:15:36] what you're going to eat, you get after it.
[02:15:39] Did you guys like know that it was kind of like has the team get?
[02:15:43] I knew I knew I had team at roots, but no one, you know, I was like, well, maybe someone
[02:15:48] is going to be like, hey, you guys are all like, are you guys not sure what he was
[02:15:50] known and ever said that to me?
[02:15:52] You know, they just kind of, which is pretty obvious, we're in this freaking
[02:15:54] sales team's going corn, we're like literally 500 meters from base.
[02:15:58] Yeah, yeah.
[02:16:00] But I think maybe what's funny is I thought that the chart house, I thought that I
[02:16:04] was at like the first chart house in 1999.
[02:16:06] He's like, no, it started in 1964.
[02:16:08] So I was way off based on that one.
[02:16:10] Oh yeah, yeah, it's interesting to he and he didn't go as deep into it.
[02:16:14] It's a comma, I didn't experience it in Hawaii, but all those places is weird because I
[02:16:21] kind of think where he all the places he was talking about, like I know those places
[02:16:25] whatever, but this is back in the day.
[02:16:26] So it's like different, you know, so it can as it contrast to whatever, when he was like
[02:16:30] Outrigger, you know, the Outrigger, but now Outrigger is everywhere.
[02:16:35] But the main one, that's the one he was talking about, yeah, you talk about that main
[02:16:37] one that you stay at by dukes.
[02:16:39] Yeah, I've been to that one.
[02:16:41] Oh yeah, it's kind of a hype scenario.
[02:16:43] They got a bar like on the beach situation.
[02:16:46] You know what I was saying?
[02:16:47] That's where I proposed to my current wife, finally.
[02:16:50] You know what?
[02:16:51] We had a weird scenario with my wife, the way things kind of finally got solidified.
[02:16:56] But when I finally got her a ring, let's say, yeah, yeah.
[02:17:01] When I finally got her a ring, I asked her to come out for dinner.
[02:17:04] We went out for dinner, guess where we went to dinner, to our house, not even the
[02:17:08] wedding coronado.
[02:17:10] We went to the one that was down by the peer or whatever in San Diego.
[02:17:14] So it was sort of an extra level of hype.
[02:17:16] It wasn't just going to coronado.
[02:17:18] Yeah, I'm going to take you extra level of hype and I had that little.
[02:17:21] So I told her to get dressed up and whatever, like, you know, I put on like a shirt, you
[02:17:25] know, because back in the day, it was hard to get her shirt on.
[02:17:29] And the t-shirt was kind of hard, but like putting on a collar shirt was sort of a big deal.
[02:17:34] So she knew something was up some formal.
[02:17:36] Yeah.
[02:17:37] Yep, get yourself a jugglefuel.
[02:17:39] Jugglefuel.com, get some, get some of the drinks from walla, get some of any of it from
[02:17:43] the vitamin shop that's going to help you out.
[02:17:47] Get yourself some clothes.
[02:17:48] Get yourself some American made clothes straight up, straight up.
[02:17:52] You're like a new factory gene or something where I might just seen like factory gene is
[02:17:57] the same gene we've always had that's called the factory two types of genes.
[02:18:00] Factory gene, Delta 68, Delta 68 is lighter, little thinner, factory heavy.
[02:18:08] So if you're in Michigan or you're in Maine and it's going to be winter time, get yourself
[02:18:14] the set of factory bands.
[02:18:16] If you're in so cow or you're deploying to Vietnam, get yourself a very Delta 68.
[02:18:22] And all of it is made in America, all of it's made in America.
[02:18:26] And look, that's the way everything should be made.
[02:18:30] If you're in America and you should be buying something that's made in America, why would
[02:18:34] you not do that?
[02:18:35] I'll tell you why, because you think, well, you know, I want to save $14.
[02:18:40] But when you save that $14, you're actually costing yourself infinitely more on the
[02:18:46] backside when your country is crumbling.
[02:18:49] And when you feel in your soul that you're enslaving human beings overseas, at the very least
[02:18:54] keep it on.
[02:18:55] At the very least keeping people enslaved overseas.
[02:18:59] It's not what that happened.
[02:19:00] Go to origin.
[02:19:01] USA.com, get yourself some boots, get yourself a G.
[02:19:05] Get yourself a G. A comfy G.
[02:19:07] No one even thought that G's were going to be comfortable.
[02:19:08] No, that wasn't.
[02:19:09] It was sort of you.
[02:19:10] You just had to accept that G's were uncomfortable.
[02:19:12] Yes.
[02:19:13] That G's.
[02:19:14] Let's face it.
[02:19:15] You're going to put a G on.
[02:19:16] You're not happy.
[02:19:17] I felt that way.
[02:19:18] I'm not happy putting on a G.
[02:19:19] Until now.
[02:19:20] Now you put on a G. You kind of smile a little bit.
[02:19:23] Right?
[02:19:24] You're kind of smile a little bit when you put on an origin G.
[02:19:27] You kind of feel like, yeah, well, that felt, yeah.
[02:19:29] A little smile.
[02:19:31] You didn't think it was possible.
[02:19:33] You didn't think it was possible.
[02:19:35] It's more than possible.
[02:19:36] It's a reality.
[02:19:37] It's happening.
[02:19:38] Org.usad.com.
[02:19:39] Check some of that out.
[02:19:40] Also, other clothing.
[02:19:42] Joccal clothing.
[02:19:43] Put a Joccal store.com.
[02:19:46] Just read, can represent, discipline equals freedom.
[02:19:48] It's a big deal.
[02:19:49] Discipline equals freedom.
[02:19:51] That goes deep.
[02:19:52] I know you didn't know that when you made it up or whatever, but it goes deep.
[02:19:55] And please.
[02:19:56] You know, shirt locker.
[02:19:58] Even life, babin.
[02:20:00] You know, just did not support the everyone, muskett stone, T-shirt.
[02:20:04] Yes.
[02:20:05] So that one is a very controversial, but it's not for everybody.
[02:20:08] I did not know that it was going to go, I, to me, this is, this is, this is why
[02:20:12] I know, this is why I don't trust myself.
[02:20:13] This is why I always question myself.
[02:20:14] This is why I was thinking, oh, you know, I might not have the best idea.
[02:20:16] So for those of you don't know, we made a T-shirt.
[02:20:19] It's based on it's for the shirt locker.
[02:20:22] It's sort of a subscription thing and you get a T-shirt every month.
[02:20:25] And there, we can be a little bit more.
[02:20:28] Let's say, creative with the designs.
[02:20:31] We can take a little bit more risk.
[02:20:32] We can get a little bit wild.
[02:20:33] So this is an idea.
[02:20:34] I had forever.
[02:20:35] I thought this was like the best selling T-shirt all the time.
[02:20:37] It's been everyone's going to want this one.
[02:20:38] Like we have to back order it.
[02:20:40] Like a bunch of crazy stuff's going to happen.
[02:20:41] We're going to see him on, you know, the cover of fashion magazines throughout the world.
[02:20:47] So there's a story about Vietnam guy has a stoner.
[02:20:51] We used a weapon called the stoner, the stoner 63 in Vietnam.
[02:20:55] Seals used to that we were famous for using it.
[02:20:57] And a guy I knew got, went and picked up his weapon from the armory.
[02:21:03] And someone else that had taken the weapon to Vietnam on an alternate tour had carved
[02:21:08] into the buttstock everybody must get stoned.
[02:21:12] And I thought that was so cool.
[02:21:14] You know, it's the 60s.
[02:21:15] That's a song by Bob Dylan.
[02:21:18] I think everybody must get stoned.
[02:21:20] So I thought, hey, of course, we'll make a t-shirt.
[02:21:24] And people just didn't get it, man.
[02:21:27] And it's not even just some people don't like it because there's a machine gun on it.
[02:21:31] Some people don't like it because it says get stoned on it.
[02:21:33] You put those two things together.
[02:21:35] The only people that are going to like it is me and like one other person I guess.
[02:21:39] Yeah, me.
[02:21:40] Yeah.
[02:21:41] So anyways, you're going to roll the dice a little bit, I guess.
[02:21:45] Apparently we never ran into that, but hey man.
[02:21:48] That's the only one that's kind of gotten the neck, the negative feedback.
[02:21:51] No, no, no.
[02:21:53] There's always going to be your odd guy, like, you know, or person, whatever.
[02:21:57] It's like not liking something.
[02:21:59] So hey, man, I think it's not for everybody.
[02:22:01] We knew that going in.
[02:22:02] But yeah, sometimes I guess, apparently, sometimes these shirts go hard.
[02:22:07] Yeah.
[02:22:08] So if you feel in edgy, if you want to support kind of just like give the support and you
[02:22:16] also want to take risks, because you're a risk taker, you're kind of person that says,
[02:22:19] you know what, I'm in the game.
[02:22:21] You know what, you're saying yourself, it's not over.
[02:22:23] I'm not done wearing cool t-shirts.
[02:22:25] It's not over yet.
[02:22:27] You can you even check out the shirt locker.
[02:22:29] Yep.
[02:22:30] And that is on Jocco store.
[02:22:32] So subscribe to the podcast.
[02:22:34] Don't forget about Jocco Underground.
[02:22:35] We're putting, we're putting a worn out, unjocco Underground answering questions on that.
[02:22:39] Jocco Underground.com.
[02:22:40] If you want to check that out, we got a YouTube channel.
[02:22:43] Putting videos up.
[02:22:45] You can see what Lance Man looks like.
[02:22:48] Can see what 82 should look like if you're square away, if you're pteen every day.
[02:22:54] So check that out.
[02:22:55] It was psychological warfare.
[02:22:56] We got flipside camis.com, Dakota Meyer.
[02:22:59] Got a bunch of books.
[02:23:00] Hey, I read.
[02:23:01] I kind of read that section from by water beneath the walls.
[02:23:05] I guess that might be bad planning or whatever, but that section about the UDTs and the
[02:23:09] cycle of just had to kind of go with it again.
[02:23:12] But that book is a Ben Milligan by water beneath the walls.
[02:23:17] Freaking great book.
[02:23:18] You know, I've written a bunch of books too.
[02:23:20] Including a novel called Final Spin.
[02:23:24] Check those out.
[02:23:25] Leadership books and whatnot.
[02:23:27] Kids books.
[02:23:30] If you haven't gotten all the kids, you know, all the kids books that have written, you're
[02:23:34] not a good person.
[02:23:35] You're not a good person.
[02:23:37] You're not a good person.
[02:23:38] You're not.
[02:23:39] You don't care about them.
[02:23:41] Yeah, it's hard to connect those dots.
[02:23:43] Good person, no books.
[02:23:44] I understandfully.
[02:23:46] Well, you say it's hard to connect those dots.
[02:23:48] Yeah, like if you, if you consider your social good person, mean while you didn't do
[02:23:52] the book thing, it's hard.
[02:23:53] Yeah, you're hard.
[02:23:54] You're hard.
[02:23:55] You're a hard time convincing me that you're a good person when you're like, oh, yeah,
[02:23:58] well, I know much of kids, but I didn't get any of this life-changing book that's going
[02:24:02] to help them in every way.
[02:24:03] Anything that they do in their life.
[02:24:05] No, when you look in the mirror, you should recognize your bad person.
[02:24:08] So don't do it.
[02:24:10] Get all these kids, get them.
[02:24:12] Hand them out.
[02:24:13] Hand them out.
[02:24:14] I can't handle these books out myself.
[02:24:15] What do I even do?
[02:24:16] Like walk around America, hand it out books?
[02:24:18] No, you gotta do it.
[02:24:20] Get in the game.
[02:24:21] Buy them and give them to all these kids, help out all these kids.
[02:24:25] There you go.
[02:24:26] Esslimefront.com.
[02:24:27] If you need help with leadership inside your organization, don't forget about
[02:24:28] extreme ownership.com where we got online training.
[02:24:33] And if you want to help service members, active and retired service members, you want
[02:24:39] to help their families out.
[02:24:40] You want to help out gold store families.
[02:24:42] Check out Mark Lee's mom.
[02:24:43] She's got a charity organization.
[02:24:45] It's at America's MightyWirgers.org.
[02:24:48] Also check out heroes on horses.com where Mike offense got cool stuff going on.
[02:24:54] And people get back to themselves as far as the social media thing where they algorithm is
[02:25:03] hunting you.
[02:25:05] Look, just because there's bad things out there in the world, you need to like shy away
[02:25:10] from it.
[02:25:11] But you gotta be on your toes when you go in there.
[02:25:13] So you go in there and check out icotrails.com and check out jockelwink.com.
[02:25:16] Be on your toes.
[02:25:17] Watch out for the algorithm.
[02:25:18] It'll get you.
[02:25:21] Thanks once again.
[02:25:24] Thanks once again to Lance Man for coming on and thanks to Dan Man, his brother, who
[02:25:34] died on April 7th, 1967 in service to our great nation.
[02:25:42] We are grateful for your sacrifice and we will not forget.
[02:25:48] And on top of that, thanks to all the UDT frog men of the past who laid down the foundation
[02:25:54] of the organization that this generation has done our best to uphold.
[02:26:03] And to the rest of the members, past and present of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines,
[02:26:09] who also continue to hold up the warrior traditions of our great nation.
[02:26:15] Thank you for your service.
[02:26:17] And thanks also for the work done by our police law enforcement, firefighters, paramedics,
[02:26:24] EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, all the first responders
[02:26:32] out there.
[02:26:33] Thanks for your service here on the home front to keep us safe and to everyone else out
[02:26:40] there.
[02:26:43] Just keep it in mind that it's not over.
[02:26:48] Not over.
[02:26:49] You got one shot.
[02:26:50] You got one go at this gig.
[02:26:54] And I recommend that you be like Lance Man and live it.
[02:27:04] Go out there and live it.
[02:27:08] And until next time, this is Echo and Jockel.
[02:27:12] Oh.