Jocko Podcast 328: You Get The Life You Give Yourself. With CEO, Matt Malone

2022-04-06T07:00:05Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:22 - Matt Malone, CEO. 2:24:11 - Final thoughts / How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Jocko Store Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com Jocko Fuel: https://jockofuel.com Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Echelon Front: https://www.echelonfront.com 2:42:15 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

You know one thing you you mentioned a couple times was you know that the fact that we we got an average age of Well, there's that your company your prior company was 54 years old As you know, I'm also in the business of people working with their hands We've got we've got people that are manufacturing things in America that haven't been manufactured a long time here Passing on we were lucky enough to grab some of that knowledge You know Pete was lucky enough to grab some of that knowledge from some of these people that were older than 54 years old You know that were 65 we've lost some of those those mentors at origin that were passing on first hand knowledge of how to do this stuff and yeah, that's the idea I think You you mentioned that Who's going to a technical schools nowadays you know it's just I don't even know Like the high school or my kids went they they don't they are trying now to reopen the the the Auto motive you know repair section when I went to high school all the kids were working on cars It was part of you know everyone was building their own car and and doing that and then a lot of them went on to do that for a living Where's that where who's gonna do this stuff now if we don't refocus America on On the the skills that we need as a nation to be self-sufficient Could not agree more just don't need to say more could not agree more and If it's not done, Jocca there would be real ramifications to it So you got to run that game Get around those numbers in your head because if you're investing all your time into into make money So that you can buy your time back you might be losing you know Unless you figure out a way to scale it which is what you were just talking about unless you figured out a way to scale it You're gonna have a hard time doing that so that's why it's important in my opinion to be doing something that you really love doing You know, I never even ever thought I was working in While I was in the Navy probably let me rephrase up I was very seldom considering what I was doing work Just didn't seem like work ever Like just didn't seem like work so that's a really good life. I'll lie you to man, you know monetize that great build and they go live your life and do your thing and So that that notion was was was always in my mind After you know doing private equity at that point for you know 15 years a 13 years or something like that It was always in my mind and then the event at hunt kind of catapult that right into existence I formed it I was gonna put these three portfolio companies and then and you know I ran around spend and the money part of things is a real easy one to kind of gravitate to as far as your attention and like maybe a lot of time Your value system because like like obviously guys like Matt where that's they're interested in that part of things You know the fine he wanted to be an investment banker and you know that's not like a rare thing And nothing necessarily but bro. I think We could talk a lot about this, but You know the push for college of the last 20 30 years and if you look at the stats I think since 1990 College enrollments up 60% Cost adjusted for inflation is up like 300% Subsidized 100% Subsidized by the government and making loans just like just like the mortgage just like the mortgage crash They're making loans to people That Not necessarily can be able to pay those loans back because you go to college for four years and it cost $380,000 and the job that you get with your degree when you leave that school is a $32,000 or $38,000 Your job that's what that's what's happening They they take money out of the business to You know by a house or second house or boat or you know that we call those lifestyle businesses and Their nice lifestyle business, but there's no long-term viability and health for those things They though they'll die as soon as that better owner dies So what like kind of almost like they have the business just so they can make money for their lifestyle That's right. And then I think look there has to be some kind of mindset that that says oh We as a country need to unite around developing more skill trades and pushing it back down to the high school I don't know if you know, but I don't know any high schools that really have you know that kind of craft It's You get the life you give yourself Like their externalities that have happened in your life and sometimes you can't affect them you can't do anything about them But the end of the day If you decide to get up you have the discipline to get up and get after it every day and you make it a priority You can change your course of your life and all we're doing as at groundworks is using that mindset on a business that changes 4200 lies Sounds cool now, but when when you know those slim criss-misses when you know when when I'm begging my wife to To allow us to send you know eight dudes to a mustard and DC it wasn't that way The the the the the investment that you make right so this is this is the thing that's very interesting That's what does it and That attitude That attitude that work ethic that's the American culture And and look the American culture might get might get pushed around a little bit it might get it might get some layers Put on it by various things that are going on in the world, but the American culture of Hard work the culture of Entrepreneurship and the culture that Superseeds all those Is the culture of taking care of your family taking care of your friends taking care of your community taking care of your people That's the American way and that's how you win and thank you for being an example of making that happen Thank you sir and with that Mr. Matt Malone has left the building so That will turn off yes, sir Did you get a little bit of the Beyond the shark tank on that because for you I think I think I think in your mind business is kind of like shark tank Actually you're kind of right. and you know that's why I don't know if it's gonna I don't know if you know our culture is gonna match I'm very very exciting stuff, right so imagine how broker dealers clear trades literally clear trades You know equity trades are cleared but also you know Municipal bond trades how the technology works and how the processes and the regulation around clearing those trades and how these systems have to work together To do that and they had they had they had started clearing trades for a bunch of different mama pop broker dealers and some big ones and so You know think about it from a business standpoint. It's an American supply chain and then like you said We're employing Americans and we got people that are are building this country and and taking these skills You know how to conversation with someone's talking about You know people people not being fit for the military right you can sure you've seen articles like that and I know you feel strongly about bringing manufacturing back to the United States If we don't start building skill trades and a women in this country there will be a colossal collapse Think about everything we do like all these great high-tech companies and everything they do Well someone's got to run the electrical electrician lines there or the gas lines there or build those skyscrapers or whatever it might be The blue collar skill trade men and women in this country have been forgotten and You know it really came to roost for me as we started build now a shipyard staffing because the age Really scared me right What's just Look at economics was pure I want I wanted to to learn more about You know the economy and how to be effective in business and things like that, but My curiosity was really what drove Religion right so imagine going to school at a Catholic school for almost my childhood and Then of course, I'm a piscuit paying about just fascinated with the idea of of How religions are Historically rolled out and maintained and they are fed their effect on You know mankind So we took every penny that we had from those things pot of right pick and the groundworks, but still wasn't enough So in 19 You know we decided now I had outside investors I had some friends and family, you know like folks that that I've seen and and been friends with No institutional no big money guys We wanted to continue this mission and I had worked for four or five years developing relationships of companies to buy some big ones and so I Finally had to bite the bullet and and bring on a financial partner JP D'Nell Carlos Corey Cody rather and then this this young guy flanned caucran back in the day You know they would lead that process for us and and really Again, not to sound like a promotion what they became part of the team like JP knows my team and He can relate the stories of our business and the construction component of our business and a way that Ties it into extreme ownership and how it applies to our business every day and That is how you really learn and that that's how it's absorbed and so Your team's done a really good job at that for us and you might know these guys so I was a lifeguard of all things in high school Believe or not so I worked at this ocean view Life beach patrol and Good gig paid a lot more than marina didn't have to work as hard you can kind of work out and have some fun You're not be reading the lead paint Right down your throw does I look at it Now you know people always joke. and You know he Bob mentioned you need to go hide this guy so move back to Just outside of Washington DC and mind you look This is kind of surreal for me, right so went to college Flying around with an asset to buy stock exchanges That's weird Then working for the presence brother, you know Super nice guy super smart hated politics but legitimate business man and learned a ton from him what does that look like and and I just knew I wanted to have the tools to do that job I could go into business and be successful it was later That I learned kind of what specifically I wanted to be involved with in business as I met some some mentors, but At Hampton Sydney now I just knew I wanted to get some degree and and and that I felt like could best prepare me to be a successful Business and so I did my as I said I got this North of Foundation scholarship, right? oh I see the alignment between Oh decentralized command well late to see I got a bunch of disaggregated people I got small elements that are going out in the field They've got to understand how they're gonna interact with the customer that's how we're gonna get good feedback That's how we're gonna grow our business. and I was like Can't they maybe out of it because you know, you know like you know when you're hiding something on purpose

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 328 with echo Charles and me Jockel willing good evening. I'm good evening
[00:00:07] Leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield
[00:00:13] It's the most important thing in business and it is the most important thing in life and
[00:00:19] On this podcast we
[00:00:22] Consistently and regularly go through
[00:00:26] Examples of that from military history
[00:00:28] and
[00:00:30] About how the principles of extreme ownership apply to combat situations and I've had
[00:00:38] Many combat leaders
[00:00:41] On this podcast from every level from corpros and sergeants
[00:00:45] To gun resurgence and master chiefs to generals and admirals
[00:00:50] Talking about
[00:00:52] These principles of leadership and how they apply on the battlefield and
[00:00:56] Sometimes they talk about how these principles positively impact their lives as well as well
[00:01:02] So we've covered the battlefield. We've covered life
[00:01:06] Tonight we're going to get a perspective from the business side from an individual
[00:01:12] That is taking the principles of extreme ownership the laws of combat the leadership strategy and tactics that we learned in combat
[00:01:21] And has applied them directly to his business resulting in some
[00:01:25] Incredible
[00:01:27] Success our guest tonight is Matt Malone is the CEO and owner of ground works
[00:01:36] Which is a nation-wide
[00:01:40] Construction company that
[00:01:43] Provides foundation repair basement waterproofing crawl space encapsulation and concrete lifting
[00:01:49] And a host of other services that helps keep Americans foundations dry and safe and serviceable
[00:01:58] It's company that's ranked
[00:02:00] Number 1,047 on the ink 5,02021 grew by 461% 3 years
[00:02:09] Has over 20 brands under it's umbrella still growing and that growth is based on leadership
[00:02:17] And that leadership starts with the CEO Matt Matt
[00:02:24] Thanks for coming on. Thank you, Joko. Not her to be here. Let's let's start at the beginning
[00:02:30] Let's start at where you started. Yes, sir. Tell us about growing up
[00:02:34] Well, I grew up in a town not too dissimilar to to this one not as pretty
[00:02:39] Norfolk Virginia come on man. Oh, man. Norfolk's pretty pretty pretty place. I looked out the window at the last night or
[00:02:45] This morning overlooking the little harbor there's like man
[00:02:50] I see the big navy vessels, but doesn't quite look the same as my hometown, but a lot of similarities
[00:02:57] A lot of differences, but you so I grew up in Norfolk Norfolk Virginia for those that don't know it's
[00:03:03] You know, it's part of East Coast command for the seals. It's the world's largest navy base. I think
[00:03:09] Lot of shipbuilding there as well
[00:03:11] I'm a navy brat so my my dad was enlisted in the navy's
[00:03:18] He made his way there from Texas, so he was born in Denison, Texas a classic story that you've prized so you a lot
[00:03:25] Tough childhood
[00:03:28] He said I'm gonna go join the navy and see the world and he did he did
[00:03:33] He was enlisted he five
[00:03:35] But he spent four years in the navy two years in the guard, but it brought them to Norfolk as you can imagine
[00:03:43] very met my mom and
[00:03:46] She too was a navy brat, so my grandfather
[00:03:50] He he was
[00:03:52] Chief Warren officer, so he's
[00:03:54] 20 years plus so he he served
[00:03:56] He was actually in the Pacific theater for the most of his career. Yeah
[00:04:01] he was injured and
[00:04:03] Comacazia tag and you know he's got some great stories. He's no longer what he was on
[00:04:08] Well, I only know in in the Atlantic he was on his first ship was the Brooklyn. He was us Brooklyn
[00:04:14] He's no longer with us, so in fact I
[00:04:17] Was trying to find some things before I came to see you to see if I could get some more data, but
[00:04:22] He was he lived and kind of raised for many years my mom and guam, so you know he was specific theater and
[00:04:30] You know finally move back to retire Norfolk and and that's how you know my parents met so it's you know
[00:04:38] Navy towns are a lot of examples like that. Yeah, so what's your dad do you are you grown up?
[00:04:42] You know it's funny in the navy, so he's the Texas guy of tough life
[00:04:46] Rainaway frankly to to get some freedom
[00:04:49] In the navy he he was involved with computers of all things which back in the day that was
[00:04:55] Thank you
[00:04:56] Was that like a calculator?
[00:04:58] He would have these big
[00:05:00] Tape type of things that he would choke around and
[00:05:03] That was the skill that he learned in the navy and any went to work for
[00:05:08] As this kind of new technology rolled out in the banking world, so he would oversee the computers
[00:05:13] at a couple local regional banks now when I was a kid
[00:05:17] I went on a field trip so this is we're talking this might be
[00:05:22] 1977 or something like that I was young and I remember we went to a bank on a field trip
[00:05:27] And
[00:05:29] First of all, I was just thinking this is the most boring thing I've ever seen in my life
[00:05:32] I don't want to I'm never going in a bank
[00:05:34] But they had this thing that they were calling a computer and they had the little these little punch cards
[00:05:39] And I think it was some kind of an IBM computer system that kept track of something and I remember thinking well
[00:05:47] Not going in a bank in over here. I'm sure there's some kids out. We're thinking wow look at that guy with a briefcase
[00:05:53] Remember did you think of briefcase was ever cool echo Charles?
[00:05:55] No, not that I can yeah, I remember some kids thought a briefcase was cool. I wasn't one of those kids
[00:06:02] So thank going into a big room now with
[00:06:06] Stacks and stacks of machinery and they had to take these tapes down every night and move from for security to a different location
[00:06:13] It wasn't like
[00:06:14] We talk computers today. It's coding and all these you know kind of glamorous things. It was the opposite of that
[00:06:19] So he would
[00:06:20] Manage a store as the tapes would store the data from the transaction
[00:06:23] I guess from the customers during the day and make sure they protected really didn't know what he did
[00:06:28] But I too knew that I
[00:06:31] Never wanted to do that
[00:06:33] But you know as a kid you just
[00:06:35] It's I would just say that my parents
[00:06:39] Just great people
[00:06:41] We grew up as you can imagine fairly poor so we
[00:06:45] lived in a
[00:06:46] 12-hundred square foot house with one bathroom. I have a brother
[00:06:49] but never knew it frankly never knew
[00:06:51] What wealth really was just knew that my parents loved me just got after my mom was a telephone operator
[00:06:58] When
[00:06:59] Echoed any note that is but uh and they don't have his animal. I'm laughing because that stated about like
[00:07:05] We didn't have much money, but you know we didn't really know it
[00:07:08] So both my parents were school teachers. We didn't have much money and I knew it
[00:07:13] We were we we we had like a call we had one car for a while we had one car
[00:07:18] It was a shavet scooter a beige shavet scooter with no air conditioning and
[00:07:25] The had like a crappy am radio and and we would get get into that thing in the summertime to go like drive to see the grandparents
[00:07:34] Three kids in the back of the tiny as car
[00:07:37] So when people were like oh, you know how it was poor, but we didn't know it
[00:07:41] I knew
[00:07:43] I knew it man. I was like I'm getting out of this joy. Would I get
[00:07:46] I'm having flashbacks so we we had a similar we had a rabbit remember these Volkswagen rabbit
[00:07:53] Toadore not for door and so my dad was some Texas a case. We'd make a long drive from Virginia to Texas no AC
[00:08:01] All we had pictures of the four of us in this thing and
[00:08:04] You know it was good times good. Yeah, and of course. I mean I don't want to make it sound too bad
[00:08:10] When you have a car you're not too bad right and and we've always had food so
[00:08:14] Thanks to my mom and dad and and the the teachers union that they got paid
[00:08:21] And we ate we got to eat all the time, but yeah
[00:08:24] As far as not knowing your poor I definitely I let me refresh it
[00:08:27] I knew we didn't have much money that that much I do I knew we weren't I knew we weren't getting
[00:08:33] Like you know a new bicycle right might get a used bicycle we might get a you know
[00:08:39] Well we always had some fun around Christmas time
[00:08:41] The the saying in my family was it's gonna be a lean Christmas yeah, which had been inherited I guess from my my mom's dad
[00:08:48] Who would say the same thing it's gonna be a lean Christmas and that's all we'd hear about
[00:08:51] So whatever dreams you had for Santa go count on yeah
[00:08:56] Well look I go what appreciate this being Hawaii look the big meal sometimes during the week was spam
[00:09:04] Now back east that was an I think my mom grew up in Guam for many years, right? So yeah, we'll fire up some spam
[00:09:09] I put in a crock pot and then like what so running joke when I realized that spam really wasn't real me to see my mom
[00:09:18] She made she signed me up for the spam with a month club and I had a sweet shirt that's its spam on it
[00:09:23] I would get this letter every month
[00:09:26] So you know again
[00:09:28] It took me water real I say you guys don't need spam at your house, you know, so anyway
[00:09:34] But so grew up in Norfolk
[00:09:36] You know
[00:09:37] Good parents normal childhood
[00:09:39] I actually going to elementary school
[00:09:43] I went this was when cross town busing was a thing
[00:09:46] I don't know if they have that here in California but back in the day that we would have crossed down busing in Norfolk
[00:09:50] So I grew up in a place called Ocean View
[00:09:53] I don't know if you remember that I don't know if you were stationed back in the I was stationed I remember where Ocean View is it's a little sketch
[00:09:59] We'll talk about that later maybe, but so across town busing was a big deal
[00:10:03] So in first grade, you know mom would walk me out to the bus stop
[00:10:06] 45 50 minute drive on the bus to a school
[00:10:11] Young park elementary, you know, it's literally in the middle of the project and it did you know they were crossed down bus and so
[00:10:17] That lasted for a couple years and mom had enough of it so she said hey, we're gonna find the money to send
[00:10:24] Of course ever brother a parish and
[00:10:27] We're gonna send the boys to a Catholic school because Catholic schools are
[00:10:31] cheaper than private schools put great educations good educations and so we ended up going to a little private school
[00:10:38] And she was so pleased I think I think if it was like $2,000
[00:10:42] But for those it was real money right and so
[00:10:45] Now that kind of changed the course of my life and and
[00:10:48] Fast forward a few years so we'll go up and go up there and then went to high school when you say that it changed the course of your life
[00:10:55] You can't just throw that out there and then to say hey we're moving on well what just the the folks on education
[00:11:02] Yes, so the focus on
[00:11:04] Look discipline I think is in port part of aspect of a Catholic
[00:11:08] Education now
[00:11:10] You know, I literally had nons that were teaching us right so you have some discipline that's instilled in that
[00:11:15] Some you know, okay, we're not Catholic either right and so
[00:11:17] Did you have to tell say that you're Catholic to get it? No, no, okay
[00:11:22] They may allow non-Calcics to get it okay and so
[00:11:24] But I know I I certainly believe in the morality that they teach
[00:11:29] Now I would literally have to go today we went to mass every week and I couldn't participate right so literally for me
[00:11:35] It was like
[00:11:36] We're certainly I just go and sit and as an hours remember it's nice and cool in the church
[00:11:40] Were they still doing the in Latin? No, no, not at this point. No, not at this point
[00:11:44] How long ago is Latin services? I'm I can't find my crazy no because they used to talk about
[00:11:49] Like I thought they did Latin up until fairly recently, you know the 70s or 60s
[00:11:56] Long before maybe I was I'm not that old job
[00:11:58] Maybe I know they definitely didn't land but but not for me not for me
[00:12:03] But I just remember you know what could participate couldn't take the sacrament and
[00:12:07] But it was cool I would go as nice and cool in there and just sit do whatever
[00:12:11] There were a few in on Catholic so we just kind of pal around together were that group
[00:12:14] And just which is chill as people would go through the mass every week and as cool whatever
[00:12:21] But how it changed my life is you know a good curriculum a good focus on discipline and education and and can't really a good
[00:12:29] Moreal compass was delivered
[00:12:31] Weekly right not I'm not talking about mass here. I'm just talking about you know how they went about
[00:12:36] Derreducation right look if you look at today is a is a boom in Catholic education
[00:12:41] Yeah, again, what's going on education around the country and so
[00:12:45] You know it was a important part of my kind of upbringing even though I wasn't Catholic
[00:12:49] It was it was important part of my upbringing and how long were you in that Catholic school for why went so second grade?
[00:12:55] So third grade on through high school. Oh all the way through high school. Yeah, so
[00:13:00] Different schools but still in the Catholic sister so all these little teeny Catholic
[00:13:04] Elements your schools would feed up to the one high school they had in town at this time is called Norfolk Catholic High
[00:13:11] And some of my brother and I went there and
[00:13:14] So my my dad passed away when I was 14 so I was a freshman just tough
[00:13:20] How how that happened?
[00:13:22] Well he so he he again grew up in Texas with a lot of medical care and
[00:13:28] What they think was so see he had romantic fever when he was a child and and
[00:13:32] You know
[00:13:33] Likely he never got medical attention until it was probably too late so he literally wore glasses because the the fever burned his
[00:13:40] His redness right so I mean members so he was born in the late 50s
[00:13:46] And you know in Texas not in a big city. He was he was born in Dennis in Texas and later lived on a cattle farm right
[00:13:53] So different mindset about healthcare and and and and and treating things
[00:13:57] Aggressive like so oh he's got 103 temperature. He'll be alright just you know
[00:14:02] Just laid out here's some water you know will be fine, but he he ultimately wasn't fine
[00:14:06] So he had he had a kidney failure a couple years prior so he was on dialysis for that and
[00:14:14] You know he would he would literally go on walks every morning to kind of keep in shape and he was then
[00:14:19] He'll not built like me. He was then and we go on these walks and
[00:14:23] One day just didn't come back. Please come to the house and we're about to go to school
[00:14:29] My brother and I and
[00:14:31] My brother he's a couple years old and he would drive us at school in the cops
[00:14:35] Literally came and we lived in a court came to the court drove through the court and I remember we're just kind of sitting there
[00:14:41] I was getting a drink of water from the faucet and I made some smart ass common like oh
[00:14:46] They're coming to get this guy Roger Baker every year, you know
[00:14:49] Again, you know rough neighborhood can't leave so a lot of guys the police would come by all the time
[00:14:55] And so he pulled right in front of the house and I I said something else smart to my brother like oh
[00:14:59] What'd you do and so he comes to the door and he brings my dad's wallet and
[00:15:05] Is it one of you guys needs to come with me and so my brother was the oldest and so he went
[00:15:10] He went with the police officer and you know I was there alone in that house and
[00:15:16] And that's just a very strange I mean when you're child's 14 just turn 14 just entering in high school as a freshman and
[00:15:26] Yeah, now I called my mom and
[00:15:28] She came home and you went to hospital and he was gone so
[00:15:33] I didn't early age you know when that that
[00:15:36] That happens you you
[00:15:38] You have one or two things right you have to you can either hide within yourself or you can
[00:15:42] Stop them to try to be more of a man around the house and and my mom
[00:15:47] You know she she's old school and the sense that you know she was very dependent on my dad
[00:15:54] She turned into we called her to Wanda after that like she's tried to be strong and do things that
[00:16:00] You know that she needed to do take care of her boys and she did
[00:16:04] But I had to become in my mind I had become more the man the house and and manage the finances and other things like that
[00:16:11] Because she wasn't great with that and so
[00:16:13] The interesting thing is she couldn't afford to send us to this school now in North of Catholic and
[00:16:20] And I didn't know this for a few years
[00:16:22] But the school came to her and said hey listen if you can pay for
[00:16:26] one of your sons a child my brother
[00:16:31] Then Mac can go for free
[00:16:33] Big deal right so
[00:16:35] That's how I was able to go to high school is that that school stepped up and allowed
[00:16:41] You know two knuckleheads to go to the school and when when I couldn't really afford it my mom couldn't afford it
[00:16:47] And I found out you know many years later, but my wife Sarah and I have you know
[00:16:52] We've given a lot of money back to the school and we even doubt a few scholarships for athletes to go to school
[00:16:58] It's just
[00:16:59] More than you know the colleges I went to that was
[00:17:02] You know kind of the greatest act of kindness that set me on a course to to be an entrepreneur in the business man today and
[00:17:10] So I just I love that place
[00:17:12] And Sarah and I continue to get back to it, but
[00:17:15] So the high school
[00:17:17] You know
[00:17:18] That's I from that pretty pretty
[00:17:21] Typical existence I played sports not great like you guys
[00:17:25] I played football and basketball
[00:17:27] Um, large and a lot of football all you know all conference I think it made all state one time, but
[00:17:33] Not great I remember like junior year
[00:17:38] This about you can ready go to college and look to be fair. I was complete knucklehead
[00:17:43] Might had a 2.2 GPA so your grades were not great. No, it's a great job great. We just not study no
[00:17:49] Just didn't care. I don't really think I brought a book home and and
[00:17:54] You know
[00:17:55] And I have the I factually did not know
[00:17:57] I'm not not not I did not break a vocal
[00:18:01] Well, I mean you have you have kids and some sons so I like literally I I have two sons now and
[00:18:08] I would be appalled if that that were the case for my sons so
[00:18:12] And looking back like what I know go so my mom worked all the time she you know I was a last key kid I literally
[00:18:18] That's all her you know right before bed and that was it and she had to work and so
[00:18:22] I remember going to a guidance counselor back in the day and the guidance counselor literally said hey
[00:18:31] You might want to think about a career in the shipyards
[00:18:34] And I got what do you mean you know mom says I need to go to college
[00:18:39] She's like yeah, but
[00:18:41] Mom has been seeing your grades
[00:18:44] You're not getting into college lady said and you know Norfolk is a home a bunch of shipyards, right and so
[00:18:50] And nothing wrong with working the shipyards and I'll cover that in a little bit but she she she she's like you need to go
[00:18:55] We're think about that as a profession, right so I'll go home
[00:18:59] That was not a good conversation with mom
[00:19:02] She never went to college of course, but she'd already she knew about this thing called college and she said my my boys are going to college
[00:19:08] I don't know what that looks like but my boys are going to college and so
[00:19:12] Thankfully I could play football now
[00:19:15] I
[00:19:16] Should I should say that you know lightly?
[00:19:19] I could play football was smart enough to kind of talk my way and play my way into college
[00:19:24] but D3 so D3
[00:19:28] You know
[00:19:29] I go played and that you know D1 choose legit, but D3 I joke around it's like 13th grade
[00:19:37] So and they also don't give any money to go to play D3, but they they allow
[00:19:42] At least for me they allowed a knucklehead index into school so I was able to parlay kind of my average football skill
[00:19:48] Into an amount of decent high scab but I could I could leverage that into getting into college and so I did so
[00:19:55] This is this is the interesting too. So I
[00:19:58] Went which college go to so I initially went to you gonna laugh Catholic University
[00:20:04] So mind you
[00:20:06] Here's a guy. I'm a piscopee and like and so I imagine a all my careers been education
[00:20:11] By hokey
[00:20:14] Oh
[00:20:15] You know
[00:20:16] So I ended up at Catholic University which is a division three school but CNDC and
[00:20:23] Supply football there but quickly boom blew out my knee. Oh yeah, right and I remember
[00:20:30] I'm not going to that shipyard. I can't go back right so
[00:20:34] So my mine had to turn on turn to brain on I remember right
[00:20:38] What year was this in college at your career knee so I graduated high school in 90s was 91
[00:20:43] 91 and
[00:20:45] Did you play a season or did you know never saw the field?
[00:20:49] How do you blow any practicing yeah, okay yeah and
[00:20:53] Look I had a couple looks from service academies and course that was never gonna happen given my grades but
[00:21:00] But it was the is the only way I could really get
[00:21:03] Opportunity go to college and and so I went to Catholic
[00:21:07] blew out my knee but because of my fear I decided okay
[00:21:11] There's this thing called a brain you might want to turn that on. I
[00:21:16] You're looking back
[00:21:18] You're looking back and you say oh, this is what I said
[00:21:20] Do you actually remember a moment in time when you said okay?
[00:21:25] I'm gonna need to I'm gonna need to apply myself
[00:21:28] Academically one hour. Okay, so you that that actually because I look at my people was like hey
[00:21:33] When did this happen when was this moment and I I've always for the most part had more gradual
[00:21:39] Sort of sort of
[00:21:42] Realizations of what's happening in the world including for myself
[00:21:45] But that's where I'm asking they like did you have a specific like all right
[00:21:50] Literally I got to find their event right so you blow your knee
[00:21:53] Can't walk I was literally in the hospital like southeast DC not the greatest kind of hospital that you want to be in and
[00:22:00] Literally in that bed I said I'm not going back
[00:22:03] Not I'm not meaning Catholic, but I'm not going back to Norfolk
[00:22:07] I'm not gonna go back
[00:22:09] What I got to do right so
[00:22:11] Turned on the brain I finished the semester there had a three two which is okay
[00:22:17] I didn't frankly fit. I didn't like the place. I didn't like I didn't like living in DC and so
[00:22:26] Again my mom she she does it we couldn't really for college right so she did a lot of research and she found that there's a
[00:22:32] A foundation in Norfolk called the Norfolk Foundation and they literally for underprivileged kids
[00:22:38] They would send these kids to this this this college ultimate graduate from called Hampton Sydney Colleges and Virginia
[00:22:45] It's a
[00:22:46] Classical liberal arts school so when I say classic
[00:22:49] You know, they talk Greek and Latin
[00:22:51] We had two years of something called rhetoric and you had to place out of it before you could graduate right
[00:22:56] It is so old school. It's like a true academy and I loved it, right?
[00:23:00] So it was small less than a thousand
[00:23:03] Students
[00:23:04] Professor to student ratio was very high and professors that taught there
[00:23:08] They wanted to teach they didn't want to ride the research. They wanted to teach and is a perfect environment for me and so
[00:23:15] I went there
[00:23:17] The Norfolk Foundation paid my tuition
[00:23:20] What did you study?
[00:23:22] Economics and religion believe it or not so I have two degrees from there one in economics and one of religion
[00:23:28] People always ask me what
[00:23:30] Religion thing is the late day once you know me you realize that religion thing the one what what do you have that for?
[00:23:35] What's just
[00:23:36] Look at economics was pure I want I wanted to to learn more about
[00:23:40] You know the economy and how to be effective in business and things like that, but
[00:23:44] My curiosity was really what drove
[00:23:47] Religion right so imagine going to school at a Catholic school for almost my childhood and
[00:23:53] Then of course, I'm a piscuit paying about just fascinated with the idea of
[00:23:56] of
[00:23:58] How religions are
[00:24:00] Historically rolled out and maintained and they are fed their effect on
[00:24:05] You know mankind and so we would study all kinds of religions and so it's just a is a personal kind of journey of my own intellect not
[00:24:13] Frankly not doing anything with us as you can imagine
[00:24:16] Yeah, well, no, if I was in the FBI and saw that thing pop up
[00:24:19] I would have pegged you as a cult potential future colater economy and religion
[00:24:23] All right, we're gonna watch this guy he's gonna be making moves. Well look that I saw I wrote my senior thesis on something called the morality of capitalism
[00:24:32] So I tried to blend them together
[00:24:34] Did so did you know you wanted to go into business at this time? Well you started to think
[00:24:40] Did you see some kind of a career path was there anything an interest to do?
[00:24:43] You know I knew I didn't want to go into a traditional profession when I say profession
[00:24:48] I mean true profession so you know law or medicine or accounting like I
[00:24:52] My mind wasn't linear that way and and I always knew that I wanted to pursue something in business
[00:24:58] Whatever that might mean like it's so it's so ambiguous when you say hey, yeah, I want to go into business
[00:25:05] What the heck does that even mean right what does that look like and and
[00:25:10] I just knew I wanted to have the tools to do that job
[00:25:13] I could go into business and be successful it was later
[00:25:16] That I learned kind of what specifically I wanted to be involved with in business as I met some some mentors, but
[00:25:24] At Hampton Sydney now I just knew I wanted to get some degree and and and that I felt like could best prepare me to be a successful
[00:25:32] Business and so I did my as I said I got this North of Foundation scholarship, right?
[00:25:38] So and I get there my dad's gone no one my family's ever to go on to college
[00:25:43] I'm
[00:25:45] Mom thought this was and I thought okay, look at this is cool. I got this all paid for right well
[00:25:50] I get there and what I realized they paid tuition
[00:25:52] But there's a little difference between room and bored and things like that so
[00:25:57] I'm a husser so I've always worked
[00:25:59] Even as in high school like it it's just part of the alone
[00:26:03] mindset we've always worked I remember I was working at Marine at 14
[00:26:07] Sanding the pile in the boat so they could paint them now mind you I didn't even have any kind of
[00:26:13] Face mask on like today with my company like
[00:26:16] What would they let me do that for?
[00:26:19] 14 right
[00:26:21] I better not say the marina, but I was paid in cash and my brother worked there and he got the good gig
[00:26:26] So he drove one of these huge forklifts the where they stored the boats and you know they're huge forklifed
[00:26:32] And I was the idiot that would climb up on the fork lift get in the boat as you put it in the water
[00:26:37] So I could drive it in park it so when the guests came they could pick up their boats anyway
[00:26:41] so we'd always been working and
[00:26:45] Even in high school I think you appreciate this and you might know these guys so I was a lifeguard of all things in high school
[00:26:50] Believe or not so I worked at this ocean view
[00:26:54] Life beach patrol and
[00:26:56] Good gig paid a lot more than marina didn't have to work as hard you can kind of work out and have some fun
[00:27:01] You're not be reading the lead paint
[00:27:04] Right down your throw does I look at it
[00:27:07] Now you know people always joke. Okay. We knew there for the ladies and stuff
[00:27:11] I don't think you've really been ocean view bro. There's really no ladies there
[00:27:16] It's pretty rough place like a
[00:27:17] We used to work at this place called there are a couple beaches there and Norfolk and we worked at this place called city beach
[00:27:24] And city is a big development house replace it, but city was kind of way down at the end of the end of the bay
[00:27:29] And there were and that's where you could get the hotels you could get for the hour right and
[00:27:34] Hookers on the corners and stuff like that and they only let the big guys go down there to city and we called it of course
[00:27:40] Shitty we're gonna go ahead shitty
[00:27:42] What I love those we had rescue boards. So we basically served all day because the client held in roll and mine
[00:27:47] You're surfing and Norfolk is very dimmer than here, but we felt cool jack-o-common
[00:27:52] So you know it's okay, well, you know you get there you get on duty at 10 and
[00:27:57] And clients don't really show up at that beach until about three so we kind of screwed around
[00:28:02] Well, there's a couple characters that you meet during
[00:28:06] Being a lifeguard right so you have the quintessential guy that that's his profession
[00:28:10] You know the dude that's like you would call him dude. His name is Jed
[00:28:13] It like he was 40 years old you like a kid. I don't want to be that guy
[00:28:17] But we had these a few guys that went to
[00:28:19] Well, they went to college at Old Dominion and that work just work in there for the summer making good money and and
[00:28:27] And there forget this one guy
[00:28:30] He was a workout maniac so he was a wrestler at Old Dominion and we our lifeguard stands are about 10 feet tall and
[00:28:38] He used to hang off these things and do pull ups
[00:28:41] And then he would do one handed pull ups, you know, he'd grab his hand to complete the gentleman
[00:28:45] And I was in high school. I this this was cool to me, right so on his hey
[00:28:50] I'm not I'm I'm way out of high school
[00:28:54] I'm a fat ass can't do that. That's pretty cool. So on the lunch break so this guy
[00:28:59] He wouldn't go on lunch. He would literally jump on the beach take off his lifeguard gear and
[00:29:05] Dig holes he take out a military shovel and dig holes
[00:29:08] Is deep as he could as fast as he could for an hour and then filament does not lunch break was an hour and
[00:29:16] And I remember asking I said what do you what do you mean I love it? What are you doing?
[00:29:21] He said I want to be a seal
[00:29:23] So what's a seal right and so
[00:29:27] At city beach it's right across a jetty from
[00:29:31] At the amphitheid base there right and so you'd see copters out there drop in people and I didn't think there were seals but you
[00:29:37] They drop you know divers in or whatever and because I was so busy down there at that beach
[00:29:43] I could just sit there with my bunocks and watch you see him swimming back right they just swim back
[00:29:47] And he's guys are out there a long time and
[00:29:49] He would say well those are probably seals and then he came in one day and came me a book
[00:29:54] Rogue warrior
[00:29:56] We classic right so of course is a lot of reading times sometimes on these liveguard stands because no one was there
[00:30:03] So Marcinka read that book and and
[00:30:05] And it was fun the other day. I was working out with
[00:30:09] retired seal
[00:30:11] And I had this
[00:30:13] I stole it I shouldn't say that but I have a a lifeguard sign in my gym at home like a rod
[00:30:20] He said I found that
[00:30:23] City of Norfolk I found that but
[00:30:25] So we're working on he said hey what's that sign and I said well I worked at I worked at this and this lifeguard thing and
[00:30:31] Then I remembered this story of this guy that wanted to be a seal and I said hey did
[00:30:36] Did you ever know this guy?
[00:30:38] His and his face he looked at me and said
[00:30:41] You kidding right so
[00:30:43] So his name and I I have I've been seen him since
[00:30:46] Jocco so you should know this so his
[00:30:48] That two guys that work there they're called the fuzzle brothers as well. Oh no
[00:30:52] John and Chris fuzzle worked
[00:30:55] As lifeguards with me back in the day
[00:30:57] I had those of you John fuzzle was the guy that would just
[00:31:02] Work out maniac like hanging off lifeguard sand's digging holes and
[00:31:08] You know when I when I mentioned it the flan did you know this guy so you kidding right?
[00:31:12] So I did he just in her webs and check him out so I I guess they made it and they had a pretty good career in the seal team
[00:31:19] But I literally remember this guy hanging off the lifeguard sand doing you know one on pro loves what so I made it good for them
[00:31:25] So I'm so small story there, but
[00:31:28] You know always working
[00:31:30] So when I get to college of course realizing I had to figure out how to eat and where to live and things like that so I got a couple jobs
[00:31:37] One one of those jobs was I was a bartender now so I went to this school is the middle of the mountains of Virginia
[00:31:44] So not much light night life, but I worked for the school so I would
[00:31:49] Work for these trusty events
[00:31:51] So trusty is in college or folks that you know kind of sit on a board and give a lot of money and kind of direct the college and where it's going
[00:31:59] So they're pretty typically pretty successful folks that kind of for to give a lot of money away and
[00:32:04] You know I'd exposed to any of that world before and so I was working these trusty events and you know
[00:32:09] I had to wear bow tie and it's pretty horrible
[00:32:13] So I stand there and have that this bar and this this gentleman fresh man year came up and
[00:32:19] He wanted to scotch neat really good at making those
[00:32:24] So and so we just got talking for four years we talked and again not about business but about life and politics and sports and
[00:32:33] You know he he really became somewhere that I looked forward to talking to and
[00:32:37] his name was Bob Hatcher and and Bob had started a company
[00:32:44] that
[00:32:46] Called Johnson and Higgins which was one of the largest insurance brokerage firms in the world he later sold it to Martian
[00:32:52] They are the largest and you know, I don't know what he was worth but it was a lot and I remember seeing you here
[00:32:58] He says hey Malone if you ever if you ever need anything give me a call and
[00:33:04] You know
[00:33:05] Okay, what does that mean right so again, you know and I even I said yes, I'm Mr. Hadjord. Thank you's you know
[00:33:10] So anyway, so uh graduate Hampton Sydney the brain turned on believe it or not five bit of cap
[00:33:17] which all these you know pretty high GPA
[00:33:22] Which is
[00:33:24] What it taught me was like you you focus on anything you bring some discipline to your studies
[00:33:29] Most people can achieve anything right especially in school. It's it's not that hard. You just got to be disciplined about it
[00:33:33] And I took it as my job like I was there
[00:33:35] To find a path to get out get the highest GPA I could to get theoretically give me the best job that I could
[00:33:42] So as I'm finishing up school
[00:33:44] One of the deans of the schools comes to me and says hey Malone I want you to apply for the scholarship
[00:33:50] And of course I heard scholarships are for you and I said okay, what's this about and he
[00:33:55] He encouraged me to apply for something called the rotary foundation scholarship
[00:33:59] Actually the rotary the rotary ambassador or a fellowship
[00:34:03] Very fancy
[00:34:05] And through the rotary club well apparently I've rotary clubs throughout the world and
[00:34:11] Part of this this this ambassador or role is that you go to these countries want where a country you're designated
[00:34:19] And you speak to rotary clubs in that country
[00:34:22] Every weekend so you travel around this countries given speeches about literally life in America and where you're from it's truly ambassador
[00:34:30] And in return for that they pay for your graduate school
[00:34:33] Like nice good gig I give that a go and so
[00:34:37] Now I can only speak English and so you know there's only that limits to where you can go in the world
[00:34:42] And so Australia or you know I'd kingdom right so
[00:34:46] I
[00:34:47] Being an economist
[00:34:48] Lose that phrase loosely I knew of course of me or Adam Smith
[00:34:53] He he actually taught at the University of Glasgow in Scotland
[00:34:57] There's a school there called Adam Smith School of Finance and
[00:35:00] And I applied to find the way it worked as you have to apply and then they at the rotary club picks and so
[00:35:07] Of course I pick the big boys I applied to Cambridge and lunch school of economics use the big boys right
[00:35:13] And on the fifth choice I brought my applied to University of Glasgow now what's interesting about Glasgow?
[00:35:18] It's very similar to Norfolk
[00:35:21] And the sense of huge ship building town depressed economies
[00:35:24] Because most of the ships at the back at least early on a lot of the shipyards
[00:35:32] For the United Kingdom all the boats really built right there in in Glasgow
[00:35:37] And so of course that's where they select me to go and so I ended I wish I'd gone to Cambridge or Oxford or one of these places
[00:35:44] So I've course ended up my luck going to University of Glasgow, but hey man it was free
[00:35:49] So I went so off I go to
[00:35:51] University of Glasgow in Scotland and and and yeah that that that was a good experience I
[00:35:59] School was like 14 91 it was found I mean so it's it's you going way back right and
[00:36:05] Definitely back in the day
[00:36:08] My classmates you love this one my classmates were really it's an international program so my classmates from around the world right so
[00:36:15] my my roommate was a fellow named Carl Howe who's from Barbados and
[00:36:20] You know he he spoke a different dialect of English
[00:36:24] um and then I don't know if you've been to Glasgow but glass weegin
[00:36:30] Obviously English but their accent are so thick so imagine I'm where I got this dude from Barbados
[00:36:36] Me and all these glass weegins
[00:36:39] I guess it's they're all speaking the same language but they're in the same
[00:36:44] So I did I did the masters program there in international finance
[00:36:48] I've really wanted to get out of there so I did my program pretty fast I did it in
[00:36:53] 18 months I could write your dissertation finish and so I finished
[00:36:58] But because I finished early I came back to the states and and at that point
[00:37:04] Jock I I I wanted to be I thought an investment banker so
[00:37:08] For your listeners out there not to offend many investment bankers, but so investment bankers put
[00:37:13] buyers and sellers of companies together I have a lot of investment banking friends
[00:37:20] I apologize for this but they're like real estate agents
[00:37:24] But really smart and they make a ton of dough
[00:37:27] So at my mind I wanted to be an investment banker you know kind of facilitating
[00:37:32] Acquisitions and putting buyers and sellers to together for for for businesses and so
[00:37:37] Going back to the states I was all cycle so they have a recruiting class so they they bring in students and put them in the
[00:37:43] Associate program after they get their MBA which my degree was equivalent to that
[00:37:47] And so I was kind of six seven months early for that program
[00:37:52] And say said hey just come back when we recruit for the program because it's kind of a couple of your program
[00:37:57] You got to get get a spot a slot and you'll go through the program
[00:38:00] And so I called Bob because I didn't have a job and I said hey Mr. Hadjir Guess who he says hey Malay
[00:38:05] What so I wrote this dissertation on derivatives and in graduate school and so I went to work briefly
[00:38:12] For this insurance company and I I'd literally wrote what's called exogenous for his models why I would
[00:38:18] Invertly correlate commodity prices and self insurance levels
[00:38:23] It's very technical very boring, but we both seen trading places so we come here
[00:38:28] Yeah, so I literally would build these models you got here. I literally is building these models
[00:38:36] So a lot of big companies are self-insured
[00:38:39] Some companies have massive exposure to their earnings based on a commodity price of something so like take Reynolds models for example
[00:38:45] So Reynolds models their earnings are probably driven by the commodity price of aluminum
[00:38:51] Well if you're self-insured to some level and
[00:38:53] And aluminum prices go through the roof you had taken more more risk so we kind of wrote these and developed these models
[00:39:01] The reviter products that as the commodity price of in this case aluminum would go up
[00:39:07] Your insurance would kick in so yourself insurance would go down so it allowed the company to have less risk
[00:39:15] Yeah, I I realized in about a month. This is really cool, but it ain't for man. That's a no cube doing modeling for my career, right?
[00:39:21] So I say hey Mr. Hatch, thanks for the look
[00:39:24] So I can't do this. I'll wait out for the program that I'm gonna go to
[00:39:30] somewhere else so he he actually called the this fellow that ran this investment bank and and today you get malone on board until he gets to the associate program at your investment thing
[00:39:40] And so I went but again early
[00:39:43] They were in the middle of a big project and
[00:39:45] And they he I was I joined this project so it was kind of like process reengineering
[00:39:52] But it was this is that a new company that you're working out. Yeah, so I left I left Johnson Higgins and went to it's called wheat first
[00:39:59] Birch or sing it's no longer there. Someone bought it. I walk over you. I think bought it
[00:40:04] But imagine clearing trades again. I'm very very exciting stuff, right so imagine how broker dealers clear trades literally clear trades
[00:40:11] You know equity trades are cleared but also you know
[00:40:16] Municipal bond trades how the technology works and how the processes and the regulation around clearing those trades and how these systems have to work together
[00:40:24] To do that and they had they had they had started clearing trades for a bunch of different mama pop broker dealers and some big ones and so
[00:40:32] You know think about it from a business standpoint. They were bringing in all different types of
[00:40:37] People to do trade businesses to do trade so if the three of us start our broker dealer we would hired them
[00:40:43] They do all our back-end stuff as big as you know the big guys on the street
[00:40:48] First clearing corpus the name of it
[00:40:51] What they would do their work too
[00:40:53] Well, anyway, I got into this project to figure out how to make that more for business and things like that again
[00:40:57] Just waiting out to get to the investment banking
[00:40:59] But I actually started to fall in love with the operational component of what we were building and
[00:41:04] And you know I actually made the decision and to decide not to go into investment banking at that point
[00:41:11] And the the
[00:41:12] The consulting firm that was kind of leading that project strategy consulting firm called Ernst and young at the time
[00:41:19] They hired me to to work with them on doing these types of projects and so I joined them
[00:41:27] So I kind of left the guys hanging there in a investment banking, but it's the right choice for me
[00:41:31] I just I didn't I didn't want to be transactional that makes sense. I didn't want to be a middle man
[00:41:36] I just didn't want to be in the middle. I wanted to be building things and and I thought
[00:41:42] Giving giving input and value to what I was doing and so fast word
[00:41:48] Join on to the young they said hey you can go to New York or San Francisco and and
[00:41:52] That's where they had their offices and so I went to San Francisco
[00:41:56] Not a big fan of New York and I've been there one time
[00:41:59] To be fair so when I when I interviewed for the job with Mr. Hatcher
[00:42:03] They had this big sky rise down in New York right so you go and they have what's called an executive
[00:42:09] Dining room
[00:42:11] Okay, and they all were white shirts and ties
[00:42:13] I never I just like on the 44 some big high rise and I was going through this executive dining hall
[00:42:20] That's when I knew I didn't want to have an executive dining hall
[00:42:24] So anyway, so and I hated New York
[00:42:28] So I moved we moved to San Francisco and and started my career there and and
[00:42:33] Can and when the
[00:42:35] Biggest mentors that I met in my life was surely thereafter was a guy that was the COO over the NASDAQ stock market
[00:42:43] Guy named Pat Campbell also surveyed of worse, but he'd kind of took me under his wing and at the time the NASDAQ
[00:42:50] Was was on a buying bench they were trying to buy up stock exchanges and they bought the American stock exchange
[00:42:56] Which is really an option exchange and and I work for him
[00:43:01] As Ernst and young doing what's called post merger and a duration PMI so emerging these two companies together and it was
[00:43:07] Okay, it was fun
[00:43:10] Putting two companies together understanding how that works
[00:43:13] Frankly we do that now groundwork so that was that was that was a good learning process for me
[00:43:17] And then a few years later not even a few years later maybe 18 months later. I got this call from my friend Bob Hatcher
[00:43:25] He's and he says hey Malone I want you go meet a guy
[00:43:30] And I said yes or Mr. Hash whatever you want you this guy's he's really helped me and
[00:43:36] So I'm living in San Francisco
[00:43:38] He says how need you go to San Diego go meet him in San Diego?
[00:43:41] Are you communicating with him on a regular basis ever? No, he just reaching out to you
[00:43:45] Yeah
[00:43:46] So he just made such a good impression over
[00:43:49] Pouring him scotch over those years
[00:43:51] Whatever gigs you did form you did a good job built a good relationship with him and you liked you
[00:43:57] I think so I think he identified with being
[00:44:00] He just loved scrappy
[00:44:02] grinders. I mean to be fair that's that's what it was he just he I think he saw himself and me
[00:44:08] And when you see you see the light kinded
[00:44:10] Young guys you you want help and I think this was this is his way of helping now mind you his way of helping was just a little
[00:44:17] push and a little nod like he didn't
[00:44:20] Make it happen all they made in some cases he did but he didn't you know he he was just he was there to help push and prod and
[00:44:28] Look at change the course of my life this one guy
[00:44:31] Where I was tendon bar in some college to try to pay my way and
[00:44:34] And change the trajectory of my whole life and
[00:44:39] Anyway, so he calls jockey calls of course I'd never been to San Diego
[00:44:44] San Diego is good to me like I've been here a couple times and big things happen when I get here
[00:44:48] So so I hop on the flight from San Francisco and you know this was again this was probably
[00:44:56] in
[00:44:57] 97
[00:44:58] Technology you know we'll have smartphones right
[00:45:01] It was I was going to meet a guy right so I get on I get in the yellow cab
[00:45:05] No, we've worked that time and
[00:45:07] And I give the driver the address and we're we're scooting along and he's like you sure this is the address
[00:45:14] My kios this is the address. I checked us together. This is the address
[00:45:17] Sir five minutes later. He's like
[00:45:20] My driver suit on right mean the guy he says a hey bro. You sure this is the address and I'm like
[00:45:26] Uh, what's the only address I have why do you keep saying that he says well you're you're going to San Diego zoo
[00:45:35] Hi, Luis I said fucking Bob just punked me. You know, that's what I literally what I thought is okay
[00:45:41] That's the well look this is only address I have so I'm gonna continue on so we went to the San Diego Zoo when I got out and there's a
[00:45:47] This is in the evening times about five o'clock and people were leaving but there's a little side thing that they were having this event for
[00:45:53] And they had you know partitioned it off. I go there and I meet the guy I'm interviewing with
[00:45:59] Is name is Marvin Bush and Marvin is a son of 41 and the brother of 43
[00:46:06] And he owned a hedge fund in a private equity fund back in DC and Bob and he befriends and
[00:46:13] The way I understand the story that Marvin was at a party with him and Bob was an investor by the way in his firm called Winston partners
[00:46:19] And and Marvin was saying look I really I really need a young scrappy guy to come join my team boom
[00:46:27] And Bob says hey I got a guy
[00:46:31] So I go to San Diego. I of course I meet Marvin San Diego and
[00:46:35] Boom got the job and this was so this was in late nineties when so think about the so private equity
[00:46:41] At the time so private equity for your listener's so private equity is is is a unique category
[00:46:47] And the sense of it's an alternative investment category if you think if you think about why it even exists
[00:46:54] You know many of the investors in private equity tend to be pension funds and colleges and endowments
[00:47:00] And
[00:47:02] Just the unfunded liabilities for example with pension funds today
[00:47:06] So unfunded liabilities would be the difference between what they owe their
[00:47:11] The folks at a part of that pension and what assets that they have
[00:47:13] There's always a big delta that they always have to pay out more than they have
[00:47:18] Because they're cost of medical and whatever the paying for a pension standpoint is hired in what they have
[00:47:23] So they have to invest that money
[00:47:25] They invest that money in a lot of different vehicles including public markets
[00:47:28] But also private vehicles alternative vehicles of which
[00:47:33] Private equity is an alternative vehicle
[00:47:35] Like if you would have looked today, it's it's striking that the
[00:47:38] The unfunded liabilities for pension funds in the United States is something like 3.8 trillion
[00:47:45] So they're trying to make this up how they make this up they're making it up through hedge funds and private equity
[00:47:50] Where they get a outsized return
[00:47:52] Visa via the public markets or visa via
[00:47:55] You know bonds and
[00:47:58] So to grow that you've seen a private equity when I joined this private equity firm at Marvin was running
[00:48:04] So this would this would be
[00:48:05] 1998 99 the number private equity firms at that time were under a thousand
[00:48:12] If you were to look at it today, there's there's somewhere around four thousand private equity firms
[00:48:19] And they got they manage five point eight trillion dollars
[00:48:24] So back when when I joined this private equity firm it was
[00:48:27] If there was a category but it was kind of new
[00:48:30] But I knew I wanted to be in it and by the way, so private equity and venture capital same category
[00:48:35] But different kind of investment focus growth capital is different than buy out things like that
[00:48:40] Well Winston was a buy out shop and a micro cap buy out shop which meant that they focused on company sub 50 million dollars until land surprise value
[00:48:49] Um
[00:48:51] And he was looking to add
[00:48:53] An analyst an associate to that team and
[00:48:55] You know he Bob mentioned you need to go hide this guy so move back to
[00:49:00] Just outside of Washington DC and mind you look
[00:49:02] This is kind of surreal for me, right so went to college
[00:49:07] Flying around with an asset to buy stock exchanges
[00:49:11] That's weird
[00:49:13] Then working for the presence brother, you know
[00:49:17] Super nice guy super smart hated politics but legitimate business man and learned a ton from him
[00:49:24] You know I get to this office
[00:49:26] And it's how to DC and McClan at the burlap made it this is like this is the pinnacle man like I grew up in ocean view, you know
[00:49:35] So um
[00:49:37] Couldn't afford to go anything so you're here and it's it's very surreal and I remember
[00:49:42] I made me three or four months into the job and I might might might drive my own office which would be a big deal
[00:49:47] more of and walks in
[00:49:50] And he sits down just just like this and he kind of sits back and he says
[00:49:55] Maddie like he called me Maddie don't call me that. But maybe you can get your monster, but
[00:50:01] This is a
[00:50:02] Maddie, do you trust me
[00:50:06] What do you think I said? Yep, I said no. Oh, I said no. I don't even know you
[00:50:14] And
[00:50:15] That was a turning point in my career in the sense that so that's why I was there is
[00:50:20] So
[00:50:22] So at this firm there are guys from Harvard business school and Wharton
[00:50:27] Double you know my dryboss was a guy named Steve Fry who I still work with today when to double UVA I mean the gentleman college is right and then got some knuckle dragger like me
[00:50:37] I college as you never heard of
[00:50:40] But what I think what Marvin wanted was a mutt
[00:50:44] And
[00:50:45] What that means is and what I've later learned what that means is so a guy that will always speak the truth
[00:50:49] Whatever he believes the truth will be
[00:50:52] The truth is for him
[00:50:54] And I think he realized that I wasn't looking to climb the ladder like I wasn't just a yes man and I was just so raw
[00:51:02] Either naive or stupid. I wanted to find it. I was just so raw
[00:51:06] He loved it and he he slapped a table walked out my office and said that's why you're my mud
[00:51:12] That was it right off this so um that's that was a
[00:51:16] They
[00:51:17] That yeah, I
[00:51:19] Retrospect you know that was a big turning point of my career
[00:51:22] He you know he involved me and everything and there was some trust there because I just wasn't one of those
[00:51:26] Yes men and I okay the guys that I worked a super smart super talented guys
[00:51:32] But I felt like I needed to stay there and earn my spots so I worked them and
[00:51:37] You know mom said a long time ago and I'm embarrassed to say this but she said honey
[00:51:42] You're not the smartest one they've ever created but if you work 10% harder you'll be just fine
[00:51:47] And that's literally how I've lived my whole life and my careers
[00:51:50] I will not be outworked in my mind right so I'll will not be outworked and so I always figured
[00:51:57] If I come in an hour before they do
[00:51:59] That you know that's that for me at that point that was five to six hours more a week if I stayed a
[00:52:04] An hour later you double that right at the end of the year effectively
[00:52:09] I gained a month of working time on them
[00:52:11] And you also set the tone right so you set the tone is that young guys here longer than me
[00:52:16] And that's another good message you know my
[00:52:19] My good friend and partner can make Donald we call a garden a castle. I still do it today
[00:52:24] So I like to be the first and in last out
[00:52:27] Even at this big company that I run
[00:52:29] Because it sets the tone that you know, I'm not some
[00:52:32] Exactly that's gonna mail it in if we're gonna go after our mission
[00:52:35] We're gonna go after and I'm gonna be there to do it with you and so
[00:52:38] At once and I spent you know close to eight years there doing deals so private equity deals so we would buy companies
[00:52:45] And invest and I would not break them you know, so at this point is traditional private equity
[00:52:50] We'd buy these small companies we would invest in them sit on the boards
[00:52:55] You know try to
[00:52:57] Provide wisdom but and really I just really provide in capital and trying to direct them to good outcomes as as a business guy and so
[00:53:04] I
[00:53:06] Enjoyed it. I loved and frankly I loved working with entrepreneurs because so these are small
[00:53:11] Companies right so you they're not as sophisticated as you get upstream you get large cat companies yet professional managers you have
[00:53:18] In a professional investment bankers that they're involved at this just you're still buying companies that's being operated by the founders
[00:53:25] 100% and it was perver street fighters. I loved it
[00:53:29] You know with his no like Harvard MBA's running around kind of management they're guys literally
[00:53:36] Working you know if it's a construction company for example. They're literally driving hard equipment
[00:53:40] They're managing they're they're doing the work themselves while trying to manage the business and so
[00:53:45] I thought I could add value in many of those cases and and
[00:53:49] That frankly is kind of where I cut my teeth for what I wanted to do learning and watching these founders and
[00:53:54] What I would pay them for their businesses?
[00:53:56] I would sit and oh my god, that's about to make you know 50 large and I
[00:54:01] Think I can do that you know you know and so I did that for a few years almost eight years great team great
[00:54:10] Marvin and I you know he's
[00:54:13] He took a chance on me
[00:54:17] We didn't need to juggle in that guy
[00:54:20] You know you came to some great family, but this guy also he burned the midnight all and worked hard and it was a pleasure working for him
[00:54:25] But he comes in
[00:54:28] He comes in one day and says hey, Matt, you might want to get your CV together. This is
[00:54:34] CV is fancy for resume and
[00:54:38] Like oh man something big's going on or I just got fired. I'm not sure which and
[00:54:43] Turned out they were he had a partner and they were separating the firm you know talk about you know
[00:54:48] Partnership sometimes don't last forever and so they were gonna separate the firm
[00:54:51] Never get this so I get up out of my sweet office and I walk down the hall to Marvin
[00:54:57] I said hey, Mar I think I'm gonna think I'm gonna go I think you know
[00:55:01] You don't want to be part of the firm that's kind of an indisiree and I said think I'm gonna go try something else
[00:55:08] He says he says Matt I knew you'd come down here and
[00:55:13] literally
[00:55:15] I ended up a couple days later meeting with a
[00:55:19] guy named
[00:55:21] Ray Hunt and Dallas so Ray Hunt is at the time was Fortune 50 which means
[00:55:29] He's a 50 is one of the 50th richest richest bellas on the planet
[00:55:34] He owned a big all business
[00:55:36] But he also owned his own big all turnip investment group when you got that kind of money
[00:55:41] You invest your own money, right?
[00:55:43] So he had a team of folks that did all alternative investments so from real estate to venture capital to leverage buyout and
[00:55:51] I joined his leverage buyout team
[00:55:54] And was offered the opportunity to look all their offices weren't Dallas and and I was giving the opportunity to make open their first office outside of Dallas
[00:56:03] Which was a big deal. I was gonna build my own team leave my own deals
[00:56:07] And so you know I got to pick it land or Charlotte to do that and I opened my my office
[00:56:13] for Hunt private equity and and Charlotte North Carolina and did you know did some cool deals
[00:56:19] It was fun again think about the progression here of
[00:56:24] Marvin to Ray and these are some you know players players
[00:56:32] Fast-word a few years as you this was then
[00:56:35] OA-09 the world's gone badly. Oh, yeah, so what was the how that all worked out?
[00:56:40] What we had at that time we only had three active portfolio companies we just started actively investing and and came all three of those were my companies
[00:56:49] And there was kind of this decision to make
[00:56:53] About what are we gonna do with these companies if things go really bad how are we gonna support them things like that and mind you hunt although
[00:57:00] Very wealthy he has other interests in particular energy and we're in energy company takes a lot of capital
[00:57:07] And so my here-brand ideas I was gonna buy the portfolio from Mr. Hunt and
[00:57:16] And so I I went down there and I offered to buy the portfolio and I
[00:57:21] He agreed and how did you structure that deal?
[00:57:25] So three active portfolio company, so I knew the enterprise values of all of them and mind you look
[00:57:30] I didn't have the money to do it. That's why I'm asking you how you structured
[00:57:32] You talk about hustling you'd love this jacket
[00:57:35] So so I got him a vertu agree to the deal right what was gonna be so total enterprise put them all together
[00:57:41] What the total purchase price would be what the return look like for him?
[00:57:44] We would take these portfolio companies into a new fund
[00:57:48] Now then I once you said yes, I was running around trying to raise the money first said investment vehicle
[00:57:54] To buy this portfolio. I got it so you did a little raise
[00:57:59] Attempted to do a little. I say because this is what 2008 2009. Yeah, you weren't raised in
[00:58:03] What
[00:58:06] Well the ironic thing is I I found that but the firms to back me
[00:58:11] We were gonna pull it off but the companies that we had invested in what performing so well
[00:58:18] literally these are these are kind of recession proof businesses that
[00:58:22] A billioners says no I had I'm deciding not to sell these companies. That's what he does
[00:58:26] And so he didn't we we couldn't able able to to pull off that transaction and mind you're not having money
[00:58:32] So I'm I've spent so he's so wait so he re-nigged a little bit
[00:58:36] I careful here
[00:58:38] He made a different decision
[00:58:41] He decided he's gonna keep them yes, sir got it yes, sir
[00:58:44] And he looked at the performance. He said man. I'm not losing money
[00:58:48] These things to last forever. I'm gonna keep them and so we did he did and so
[00:58:53] In vision this you when you go to your boss and say hey, I'm gonna take you out
[00:58:56] I want to take this in different strategy. I know the economy's terrible
[00:59:00] You're gonna focus on energy. I'm gonna buy this portfolio
[00:59:02] Doesn't but well for your career. So that was kind of my end of my career there at hunt
[00:59:08] So I had started this firm that I called at the time was doing the raise with these other private equity firms
[00:59:15] Called succession capital and
[00:59:18] It's a private equity firm I own today and and the the phrase succession literally means
[00:59:22] When you think about all the great businesses built by boomers of the last 50 years and I'd always thought to myself
[00:59:31] Look, I'm gonna have my private equity firm gonna buy my own companies and
[00:59:36] If you look at all the folks that needed to retire the boomers needed to retire and the data really is clear on this that
[00:59:42] Second second generation businesses never work 30% success rate third generation businesses around 12%
[00:59:50] Think that that's incredible right so you have all this wealth that's been created locked up in these businesses
[00:59:58] So we got the boomer creates the business. Yes, and that's business is doing great when that boomer steps away
[01:00:05] It's got a 30% chance to survival if you give it to your kids if you give it to your kids and if that
[01:00:11] Survives you got a 12 even to go to the next set of kids
[01:00:14] The 12th classic classic we see this over and over again, right right? Well look, they don't work to get it
[01:00:21] Yeah, they never struggle they never went through everything that's required to get it
[01:00:25] Right, so hey, man if you if daddy gives you a business you just show up the business starts interfering with my golf game
[01:00:30] Exactly
[01:00:33] So that was kind of my mindset is like you have all this pent up value in these companies and small companies
[01:00:38] And that I would just go and buy them and allow that owner to monetize their life's work
[01:00:44] And
[01:00:46] And some of this you you probably recognize just some of the smart business owners
[01:00:50] They know they're not given it to their kids. Yeah, we see it every day today and some of the businesses that I buy not that they're bad kids
[01:00:56] But they're not going to run a business
[01:00:58] They're not going to run a business and the owner the person that built it they want the money to live whatever lifestyle
[01:01:05] They have left
[01:01:06] They don't want the company to slowly pay them out because think about this how would a kid buy a business?
[01:01:10] Well, one of the way to do it is that the company that they were given finances that exit for the for the parents
[01:01:17] Well, you can't fly around the world enjoying life if that's how it's done and so my pitch to some of these owners was hey look
[01:01:25] Succession will buy you I'll lie you to man, you know monetize that great build and they go live your life and do your thing and
[01:01:32] So that that notion was was was always in my mind
[01:01:35] After you know doing private equity at that point for you know 15 years a 13 years or something like that
[01:01:40] It was always in my mind and then the event at hunt kind of catapult that right into existence
[01:01:47] I formed it I was gonna put these three portfolio companies and then and you know I ran around spend you know
[01:01:53] I don't know hundred fifty thousand dollars of my own money trying to get this thing off the ground
[01:01:58] And you know, of course that's all zeroed out at that point because we couldn't buy the portfolio
[01:02:03] And so here I am in Charlotte
[01:02:06] Had enough money to kind of keep me plugging away for a maybe a year 15 months
[01:02:12] My goal was to find try to find a company. That's what I was gonna. You're still sitting on the money that you raised no no no
[01:02:17] Okay, you didn't do it never close never close to God. We turned the purchase agreement twice
[01:02:22] That's a tough one
[01:02:26] Yeah, anyway
[01:02:28] Hey good lesson never go against the beaner. I've done that twice in my career and I've definitely lost twice
[01:02:37] So I'm a slow learner sometimes I guess so I'm sitting there in Charlotte trying to find businesses
[01:02:43] And the problem the Charlotte's a great city the problem in Charlotte though
[01:02:45] It's full of you know commercial bankers and investment bankers that all are looking to for little businesses
[01:02:50] They can buy so they can and they're might have lifestyle businesses right?
[01:02:54] So it's a pretty competitive find at business in that market
[01:02:56] As I'm looking for businesses
[01:02:59] I had friend
[01:03:01] Jimmy Flowers that
[01:03:03] That you know we had bought one piece of real estate jaco that
[01:03:07] So while COVID was melting down this point so this was like during the Great Recession right and so while COVID is what year we talking?
[01:03:12] A O 809 okay
[01:03:16] Ruff brutal right so I try to make it run the portfolio got nothing and you know
[01:03:21] I really can't really get a job. I could get a job
[01:03:24] I'd suffice to get a job, you know, I'm gonna make a run at this so I'm looking at myself
[01:03:28] Can't married at this point. Yeah your kids?
[01:03:30] Yeah my my son ate in Malone is uh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's it's not fun
[01:03:35] Yeah, because I mean you can just get away with anything when you're saying go no kids
[01:03:39] You're like a cool. I'll sleep you know
[01:03:41] I'll sleep in the van. It's all good. We can make a work when you've got the wife and kids
[01:03:45] You know the phrase burn the boats. Yeah. Yeah, man. That was it like I was I was not gonna lose now
[01:03:51] I don't have a path to like where that was going
[01:03:53] Yeah, I've had that discussion I had that discussion with my wife and I've told people about this
[01:03:58] You got to figure out what your minimum standard is and you got to figure out what your wife's minimum standard is and I had the conversation with my wife a few times
[01:04:08] Where I was saying look if this doesn't work
[01:04:12] I'm good with living in our RV and we're gonna travel up and down the coast California
[01:04:18] I'm gonna surf and we're gonna hang out. We're gonna go to a bunch of different jutsu schools and
[01:04:22] We'll live off my Navy retirement and I'm good with that. I need to check if you're good with that
[01:04:27] She's like oh, it sounds good and sounds like fun. I'll get to see you more and I was like okay cool
[01:04:32] You got to figure out what that minimum standard is gonna be because if the minimum standard is hey
[01:04:35] I at least need a house or I at least need a house, you know with three bedroom
[01:04:39] So or for what's the minimum standard?
[01:04:41] You gotta have that conversation sometimes and I gave this advice on on the academy the other day someone was asking about
[01:04:47] You know, I'm going through this transition period
[01:04:48] How do I address it with my wife and I said look you're gonna take risk not just with you
[01:04:54] But it's with your wife figure out what the minimum standard is and then make your decisions and and that you have a lot
[01:04:59] Your minimum standard is a lot lower would you know so low dude, right?
[01:05:04] You're flying like there is no minimum
[01:05:05] I really didn't even have a minimum standard as a person right as an individual
[01:05:09] I had no minimum standard. I could survive literally. Yeah, yeah, well we'll get it done
[01:05:15] But figure out what that minimum standard is so
[01:05:17] So so you had your wife you had kids
[01:05:21] So my wife or your wife okay with living a van down by the river she would have been
[01:05:24] Yeah, that's what I'm talking about she's right or die best thing that happened to me so Sarah's is all in she's always been all in
[01:05:32] Yeah, you need that when you do when you you know it looks from now you look back and say oh yeah easy life right
[01:05:38] Because I've been pretty successful today, but
[01:05:40] But I can today it was it was it was not always this rosy and then you know her being you know
[01:05:48] 100% supportive
[01:05:49] It tells you everything you need to know when when when when things are hitting everything is great
[01:05:53] It's easy to have a relationship right but when things are bad and you don't know
[01:05:58] And we had some money more than living on the street, but you know it was it was running out fast
[01:06:02] Christmas
[01:06:03] Yeah
[01:06:04] I'm breaking out the spam hey mom what's that recipe
[01:06:07] So
[01:06:08] You know, I'm just again at this point just scrapping right I'm hustling like like nobody's business and
[01:06:14] We're sitting there we're looking for businesses and and we get a call from
[01:06:20] I fell of that a family office in Chicago Bayonair that had put a lot of money in a mess fund
[01:06:27] So a mess fund for your listeners is you know you got you got your additional equity where you you you put in your money
[01:06:32] You don't get a kind of dividend or annual return you get the upside in the game
[01:06:37] Dead of course is your traditional debt we have to pay some kind of interest on it. Mez is in between
[01:06:44] Well, you have a mezzanine strip or mezzanette where you get an elevated dividend
[01:06:50] So it's it's higher than I bank the risk is higher to what you pay more than a bank you'd have to
[01:06:55] Charge bank or bank would charge you but you also get a little bit of equity upside it was it's popular in real estate so
[01:07:02] He calls
[01:07:03] My friend Jimmy gets the thing it says the call and says hey, yeah, we're good
[01:07:08] They knew Jimmy and they said hey look we have this
[01:07:11] Mezzan investment in this fund and this and they they're holding this thing at cost which this thing would be this
[01:07:18] Big building and Shirley was charlotte it was was a big construction project they had and if you're in
[01:07:23] Oh nine and oh wait if you're holding something at cost you're blind
[01:07:26] Because because they're saying hey look you put ten million dollars into this we're telling you it's still worth ten
[01:07:33] So the guy calls and says hey flowers
[01:07:37] They were ten so
[01:07:40] Fires the table on this go check this out so we help them to hop into truck we drive this building
[01:07:44] We look at the hundred nine unit building and and it's literally empty
[01:07:48] It's literally like residential like residential multi-family residential condo development
[01:07:53] Mm-hmm so
[01:07:55] We're looking at each other and with of course we're scrappers like how we monetize us
[01:07:59] Yeah, you look at that
[01:08:01] They like the hammer this is
[01:08:05] I don't know much about real estate, but I do now
[01:08:08] So we looked in James that we'll just get a fee we can help this guy that that that that that that that that's it now
[01:08:13] No, no, we're gonna
[01:08:14] We do something different so I call the guy that I knew in town
[01:08:18] Um, uh, that is the project done done oh worst case in there, right?
[01:08:23] So if it's in construction you kind of delay it a little bit so that you can finish it and sell an optimal price as as the economy recovers
[01:08:31] This came online the average square foot cost of this building was likely three X
[01:08:36] Overvalued so if you're buying a condo and trial at this point in your pain this price your
[01:08:40] Your your full it's it's three X to expensive which means by the way your your mesdez and your equity prior word nothing
[01:08:48] So we do this work and we call the guys back and say
[01:08:52] Pay listen, uh, we'll come see you tomorrow
[01:08:54] Now mind you broke again. We're flying coach to Charlotte back at the bus right next to the lab and it's
[01:09:00] We're we're getting up there and I put this big proposal together and
[01:09:03] So we get up there and and our pitch was simply this hey look
[01:09:06] Um, I had met the guy uh that night I called the banker that I knew who actually was banking the deal from a senior perspective
[01:09:15] And he he control the debt and he shared with me hey where sellers of this debt and I offered him on the phone a number
[01:09:25] Mind you I didn't have them then money to do it, but I said okay. I'll pay you this for it
[01:09:29] He said we're done. I said we're good. We're good. I said okay
[01:09:31] Next time on the plane going up to see these big in errors and our pitch was simply this let's do your mesdus word zero
[01:09:38] The good news is that we're gonna buy this note
[01:09:41] We're capitalized a little more and we'll buy this asset here's what your return will be
[01:09:45] You give me 18 months to sell off this repricely asset
[01:09:50] And you give me a some runway to start marketing this building you can make a great return
[01:09:55] Cavly out being we're gonna share profits. I'll do all the work
[01:10:01] I'll literally sell the units myself
[01:10:04] With my partner Jimmy at that time and
[01:10:07] They agreed
[01:10:09] Now mind you like I don't know anything about real estate this time is a PE guy, but I could learn pretty fast
[01:10:13] No offenses not that complicated, right? So we got effort so our first big project access session was really
[01:10:19] A real estate project so we dispose of all those assets made a lot of money and
[01:10:23] And
[01:10:25] Second lesson from a billionaire so we're making so much money the final payment
[01:10:30] The guy calls us and says hey
[01:10:32] You guys are making too much money
[01:10:34] We're like hey, well, that's that's your agreement. We're gonna share the profits. We put in the work
[01:10:38] You know we're roughly roughly 19 months of hard labor to sell these units a hundred nine unit building
[01:10:45] And he said no no I want another half a million
[01:10:49] So what do you say?
[01:10:51] Yes, sir. I mean what are you gonna do? He literally said look I'll I'll tie up in core for five years you'll never see that money like
[01:10:57] Okay, well there you go. So another lesson hard lesson
[01:11:02] But we did that that frankly helped me capitalize
[01:11:04] Succession and allowed me to kind of push our our model to wear this today
[01:11:08] I knew I didn't want to be in the real estate game although we have a real estate division today and
[01:11:12] comproducing properties
[01:11:14] We have about 30 and comproducing properties today
[01:11:17] It's a great business Jimmy fire's my part to run some real estate component of that, but my passion is operating companies and so
[01:11:25] We're now having a little bit of capital and you know no lean Christmas at least that year
[01:11:31] We I found a company so ultimately found a company back in Norfolk that was called petrochem
[01:11:38] Recovery I bought this business from the Fensca family super family. It was the environmental services space
[01:11:43] So think anything that can't go in a water treatment facility or landfill this company would clean up and dispose of
[01:11:51] Great family great business not as you can I don't know anything about that either
[01:11:54] But literally I wanted to cut my teeth on being a true operator so bought the company 23 employees
[01:12:00] Literally a thousand square foot office
[01:12:03] Mind you so think about this I'm flying around a private plane's working with some the biggest guys in the world
[01:12:08] Now I'm in Norfolk at 1635 Mopiav a new thousand square foot building
[01:12:13] Moving houses are swaced around my office literally was like it has like the
[01:12:19] The old wooden plywood would like then not real wood like the plywood stuff
[01:12:24] Like wood paneling yeah wood paneling right like you'd see like
[01:12:28] 70s and stuff right yes
[01:12:31] So you know that's literally where my office was and and right next door to that was the shitter so it's always a good morning
[01:12:37] When you have 23 people using one bathroom, but
[01:12:40] But you know, I loved it loved every minute of it so I got my has water certification
[01:12:45] Learn to drive a vactruck if necessary although rarely
[01:12:49] But I was able to at that point engage in a business from operational standpoint
[01:12:55] leverage everything that I'd learned in private equity over the years in terms of investing in process technology people
[01:13:01] And
[01:13:05] Started to realize the importance of
[01:13:08] Investing in skill tradesmen and women and it wasn't really till I got there that I realized it deficit in the country as it relates to skill trades now
[01:13:18] We'll talk a little bit about that a minute, but so built that company
[01:13:23] We actually tripled that business in about two years
[01:13:26] Making so much money from that business that I was able to buy another company
[01:13:29] Called shipyard staffing so that that business is skill trade labor to the shipyards
[01:13:36] So we we initial business we eyeball was little we rebranded it to shipyard staffing get true skill trade
[01:13:43] So I think welders, pipe fitters shipbuilders shipfitters
[01:13:48] Great men and women so this company would provide temporary skill labor to the shipyards as they would build
[01:13:55] You know boats
[01:13:57] For your listeners out there like when you build a an navy vessel
[01:14:01] There's a lot of peak demand for labor at certain points of the construction and so what what companies like ours would do provide that peak labor to allow them to
[01:14:09] Continual production and do it a more efficient manner
[01:14:14] So build that bought that business built it we opened up. We had office in Norfolk
[01:14:18] Newport news where they built all the aircraft carriers as you know
[01:14:20] We opened up in Jacksonville, Florida another navy base. We opened up here in San Diego the last time I was in San Diego
[01:14:27] I signed a lease for a property down the road
[01:14:30] So it's been good to me and then Bremerton which is near Seattle
[01:14:37] That business again
[01:14:39] For me, it's really showed me that the deficit of skill tradesmen and women in this country is a problem
[01:14:45] For for not only my business, but for the country so the average age of a welder for us was like 54
[01:14:54] Think about that for one second like if you think about how this country is going to protect itself and build and and repair
[01:15:01] It just our worships
[01:15:03] in our aging workforce. What are we going to do in 10 years?
[01:15:09] It's a real
[01:15:11] National security issue that no one really talks about. I think
[01:15:13] We could talk a lot about this, but
[01:15:17] You know the push for college of the last 20 30 years and if you look at the stats I think since 1990
[01:15:24] College enrollments up 60%
[01:15:27] Cost adjusted for inflation is up like 300%
[01:15:31] Subsidized 100%
[01:15:33] Subsidized by the government and making loans just like just like the mortgage just like the mortgage crash
[01:15:39] They're making loans to people
[01:15:41] That
[01:15:43] Not necessarily can be able to pay those loans back because you go to college for four years and it cost
[01:15:47] $380,000 and the job that you get with your degree when you leave that school is a
[01:15:51] $32,000 or $38,000
[01:15:53] Your job that's what that's what's happening
[01:15:55] So it's a disaster and there's an impending cliff here and I know you feel strongly about bringing manufacturing back to the United States
[01:16:03] If we don't start building skill trades and a women in this country there will be a colossal collapse
[01:16:10] Think about everything we do like all these great high-tech companies and everything they do
[01:16:14] Well someone's got to run the electrical electrician lines there or the gas lines there or build those skyscrapers or whatever it might be
[01:16:21] The blue collar skill trade men and women in this country have been forgotten and
[01:16:26] You know it really came to roost for me as we started build now a shipyard staffing because the age
[01:16:31] Really scared me right and so crazy look our strategy there pretty simple so I I got a secret clearance there so I
[01:16:40] Through my company my idea was to provide skill trade labor to
[01:16:46] You know true US Navy shipyards and nuclear vessels
[01:16:50] So I could pay my guys more we could grow our business and that's what we did so we grew that business
[01:16:54] We caught quadrupled that business and pretty fast which is great we opened it as you know a bunch of new offices
[01:16:59] And
[01:17:01] Like I the course and I I thought hey man. I'm I'm building some great value in these portfolio companies. I'm having fun
[01:17:09] And then I and then I met a guy that
[01:17:13] Kind of changed the course of my career as we got into groundwork
[01:17:16] So I friend of mine calls and says hey, listen, I build this software company and I like to pitch you on the idea
[01:17:22] Me you and some other guys and I went to college with this guy and I say bro
[01:17:26] I'm never gonna invest with you. You know you know you and one of those guys. I could guy but never gonna put my money behind
[01:17:31] And plus I what do I know about software? I'm a blue collar investor
[01:17:34] I I like to invest in companies that actually do things
[01:17:38] Manufacturer things are service things or those types of things and so
[01:17:43] I go because I know all my friends. I go I go to this big fancy you know
[01:17:48] Conference room and I walk in and
[01:17:50] Is a guy sitting next to me and is a tax account and I'm like
[01:17:56] Hey bro, what are you doing here? Is it what do you mean? I said you got no money?
[01:18:00] And he says yeah, no you told me to come and fill the seats
[01:18:03] He's putting on a show
[01:18:04] That's why I'm here and I
[01:18:07] I whispered to him I said
[01:18:09] Well, who's who's the dude with the money?
[01:18:11] Are there anyone here? We just look in at each other? Is he practicing?
[01:18:14] It's supposed to be some guy be a math
[01:18:15] You know what? So he looks across the table and there's a guy there
[01:18:20] Got him Jesse Waltz and and he was the guy one of the guys I had real money and then in the room
[01:18:26] And so we listened to the pitch whatever but the tax guys is also his tax guy
[01:18:31] And he says the Jesse hey you a man need to have dinner tonight so we have dinner
[01:18:35] And Jesse owned a couple companies one company was a software company and we're having dinner
[01:18:40] And he's telling me about the software business
[01:18:42] It's like a CRM or ERP combo for this industry
[01:18:48] That's around
[01:18:49] Foundation repair
[01:18:51] Waterproofing cross-spacing cap salation. I like to refer to it as water management displacement
[01:18:57] Consumers don't know what that means but in the investment world that's what we call it
[01:19:01] And he's talking about the software business, right and I'm I'm learning
[01:19:04] I got to get out of here. This is this is ridiculous and no offense the Virginia Beach is not the hub for software development
[01:19:10] What's so funny I got
[01:19:14] So I'm thinking okay this this can't be world-class company, but as we as he continues to talk
[01:19:20] He discloses that the aggregate revenue running through his software was over 800 million dollars
[01:19:27] I think oh
[01:19:29] Not his business, but the businesses that we're using his I said oh, I mean I better pay attention
[01:19:34] So as I sit there and listen to learn more about the industry
[01:19:37] I literally had this crazy idea so I go home that night and literally get on the internet and start searching to kind of size the industry because my mind was like okay
[01:19:46] He's doing 800 million
[01:19:48] Again, no offense anyone ever junior beach and software
[01:19:50] But I didn't think he could have 50% of the market 20% of the market. I thought okay wow
[01:19:54] He probably didn't have 10% of the market
[01:19:56] But this industry has kind of been forgotten and there's no industry association for this specific industry
[01:20:02] So mostly you have an association windows roofing you can size the size of the category we couldn't do that here
[01:20:10] So my idea was was simply this look I pitched him and I put the
[01:20:14] Pupples of together that night and I
[01:20:17] I remember my wife Sarah's like a year just a
[01:20:20] Crazy man
[01:20:22] So I put just Pupples of together Chaco and he was simply this I'll buy your software business. I'm sorry. I'll buy your service business
[01:20:28] He owned a service business as well called J. Yes. I'll buy that service business
[01:20:31] You can capitalize your software business with the proceeds of the service business that I was kind of bought
[01:20:37] So he invented the software business to support his foundation business and I said look I ain't gonna buy that software business
[01:20:43] But I'll buy the service business
[01:20:46] You do your own thing not your stuff out so like at 430 in the morning about the send this thing of course
[01:20:50] Sarah says hey, you idiot don't don't do that
[01:20:53] She says that a lot so I wait till like 7.30 truthfully send this thing out and
[01:20:57] And
[01:21:00] And the rest is his service of Jesse
[01:21:02] We agreed the terms like kind of three or four months after that and I bought this company called JES Foundation
[01:21:08] Parangaging a Beach and they had at that time they had three offices a one in Monacis, which is effectively Washington DC
[01:21:13] One enrichment one Virginia Beach and he had owned another business that can't really
[01:21:18] I think he bought right before I bought him to get some R on the on the on the trade in Indiana called Indiana Foundation
[01:21:24] So we started with these four
[01:21:26] locations and
[01:21:28] Aggregate revenue roughly 30 million dollars about a hundred and ninety employees
[01:21:33] um
[01:21:35] And my mind this what I wanted to do was build a national
[01:21:39] Foundation services business with this platform because I had I had seen there was no national player
[01:21:44] Because there's no association. I couldn't find a national player and I'd really cut my teeth on these other businesses and kind of
[01:21:52] really
[01:21:53] felt like I was in a position to bring the leadership capital process
[01:21:58] Technology to an industry that time had forgotten and you mentioned it on the outset
[01:22:03] We are really in the construction business, but we don't talk that way. We talk consumer
[01:22:07] So day one we are consumer business. We don't talk construction. We are certainly construction company. That's what we do
[01:22:12] But we
[01:22:13] We go to market as a consumer business
[01:22:17] In the way frankly the consumer has evolved over the last ten years if you don't go to business like that you're gonna lose and
[01:22:22] We win a lot of the
[01:22:24] The business because think about your experience with contractors today
[01:22:28] It's typically horrible you know, they say they show up. They don't show up. They say you know
[01:22:33] They're gonna send you a bill. They don't so it's it's not a great process for consumers
[01:22:39] Our notion was simply we're going to build a company that puts a puts a consumer first that builds a national business
[01:22:46] But at the same time
[01:22:48] Build a unique
[01:22:50] Skill trades business that honors a men and women of this industry will they can have a profession and not a job
[01:22:57] And I learned that mindset through petrochem and shipyard staffing and it it's become kind of a
[01:23:04] Not kind of it has become an obsession in mind to build businesses where
[01:23:09] We celebrate men and women that
[01:23:11] You know get it done
[01:23:13] Not just with their mind with their hands because without them discontri fall support
[01:23:18] So
[01:23:20] That was how ground works was born and
[01:23:23] So that was in that was in May of 2016 we bought our but this first company and
[01:23:30] You know, I think I when I met you I'm sorry, of course. I this you might forget this but so I of course
[01:23:37] Reddictory ownership early on
[01:23:40] And
[01:23:41] Probably late 16. I think the book came out 15 but late 16. I read the book
[01:23:45] And it really resonated with me
[01:23:50] Especially as ever late at two ground works and the sense that think about what we do so we we are decentralized business
[01:23:56] our crews are three man crews if we can get them
[01:24:02] Trained on the laws of combat as as you define them we you know
[01:24:07] And as we live them you can empower a business to do remarkable things right and
[01:24:12] So we adopted this mindset of extreme ownership within the company and
[01:24:18] I never forget so what the early on it was it was pretty I had some struggles
[01:24:23] So I bought a company I had to fix up a little bit to be fair and
[01:24:26] So I went to the mustard and DC mustard of three or
[01:24:31] year was that I think was 18 okay and
[01:24:36] So I
[01:24:38] Didn't share this but look every penny I had when in this company I literally moved back in but mom
[01:24:44] To buy this company with a wife and a child so
[01:24:49] Yeah, so that was a lean of course. Miss
[01:24:52] Back to the Christmas
[01:24:55] And that's why your wife was like don't send that freaking email
[01:25:01] That's our money that's right
[01:25:03] So to make a run at this and put everything in and and you know you I hear you talk quite a bit
[01:25:10] But to be successful and anything there has to be a degree of obsession
[01:25:14] There's no plan B for us here. It is this is it there's we're all in on this and it there's that has to work
[01:25:21] And it will work because I'll put everything we have into to making it work and so
[01:25:26] We're cleaning up a few things that we needed to we spent probably over a million dollars of of going back and doing jobs
[01:25:31] We're consumers to do them correctly and
[01:25:35] So the price tag for the musters. It's it's it's real and so
[01:25:40] I was gonna bring some of my leaders and
[01:25:43] I have a partner so this fellow Jesse Walts invested back into the business with me and he's a minority shareholder at the time and and
[01:25:51] You know as I can't run this through the company because you know
[01:25:55] He's not really happy with me at the moment anyway even though I'm an already guy
[01:25:58] I want to keep him happy and respect him so I tell the wife. Hey guess what uh is it okay if I spend X amount of dollars
[01:26:04] You go this muster. I'm gonna bring these guys and you can imagine the look
[01:26:08] You like what what are you doing right so go to the muster. I bring a guys
[01:26:14] One guys one my best friends a guy named Tom Gerard who doesn't work for me, but is a huge fan of yours
[01:26:19] And he's like like you gotta go these musters. I'm like probably you ever been to our muster?
[01:26:23] So no and by the way he played football Harvard so he's he's a bond trader. He ain't worried about living with mama
[01:26:29] But he's like my long I'll pay my own way. I said you should pay my way
[01:26:33] So we go we go to we go to the muster and and and candidly
[01:26:38] It and I say this internally with my guy
[01:26:40] So it's like man, this is gonna either be like some Tony Robbins bullshit
[01:26:43] We're gonna hug it out and sing a kumbaya on and be a waste of money or it's gonna be the real deal and it was the real deal
[01:26:49] It was literally the real deal and I said I gotta get me some of this
[01:26:52] I gotta figure out a way to weave the mindset and
[01:26:56] the cadence of what we talked about and all of the laws
[01:27:00] Into our business to empower this business to be as special as I want it to be if you're gonna make investments in people
[01:27:07] And you're gonna you're gonna build a business where the profession is honored
[01:27:13] You have to give them the tools in order to do it you just can't you know for example joc we can teach sales we can teach production
[01:27:19] But how do you teach leadership?
[01:27:23] How do you really teach it and how do you measure it's effect and what's the return on investment on that?
[01:27:30] And that was look
[01:27:32] The way you did it and
[01:27:33] Laved it at seal teams and how you wrote about it I said well
[01:27:38] There's no one on the planet that can do I mean if he can't do it for us it can't be done right so
[01:27:43] I'm driving back from DC and I'm all jacked up
[01:27:46] And I call I don't know about that back in the day you your headquarters were in Seattle
[01:27:52] So we call out to Seattle and
[01:27:55] And I get a young guy on the phone and he's like listen we don't really really do long-term programs
[01:28:01] If we're effective at what we do we don't really need to be there because I pitched him on hey look
[01:28:05] I want to multi-year deal
[01:28:07] So I can I can send new leaders through this program constantly so that I can transform my business so that
[01:28:13] We have a bunch of savages walking around that care about the customer care about themselves and are passionate about leadership and development
[01:28:21] and
[01:28:23] So he said no initially and then so we call back
[01:28:26] Say look I don't think I've explained myself right where the who's kind of what we're looking for and
[01:28:30] Yeah, that interesting little backstory and that that's sort of is the you know failure on my part because one of the things that I would tell
[01:28:37] The team at Ashland front is I'd say listen
[01:28:39] I don't want to be like these consulting companies that go in and hang on put their hooks and and
[01:28:44] Cloy is in and they they're just gonna milk company for everything that they're worth listen guys
[01:28:49] If we're doing our job correctly, we're not there for five years
[01:28:52] We're there for six months. We're there for a year they understand these principles and they take them and run with them
[01:28:57] What I didn't clarify
[01:28:59] is hey if we've got a company that's growing rapidly
[01:29:02] We may need to help them along the way and and that happened with other companies in your companies one of the ones that had happened to
[01:29:08] Was happening to very fast and so I had to kind of I mean I forget how it got back to me
[01:29:12] But I remember rebrieving the team and saying listen if we have a client that's growing rapidly
[01:29:19] We can train all their trainers, but they're still gonna need people. They're just gonna need support
[01:29:23] I mean you when you when you're absorbing two or three companies a year that have two or three hundred people each
[01:29:29] You're probably gonna need help. Yeah, we need to help them. So there's a little backstory there
[01:29:34] Yeah, well, they certainly echoed your first sentiments right away. They said no no wait and it makes sense
[01:29:40] But we had to really explain look it's not the same people going to the program
[01:29:44] And you know, can't like that time we didn't have the ban what to have true trainers
[01:29:48] We were so okay. We're gonna hire the firm. We're gonna send new leaders new new leaders to the process and
[01:29:53] Look our growth rate. We are acquiring businesses and we wanted to make sure that those businesses
[01:30:00] They keep their culture. We celebrate that culture
[01:30:02] You know our average brand at ground works is over 26 years old other companies. We buy
[01:30:07] We buy businesses as small as three man as large as 80
[01:30:11] So they're big dichotomy in terms of the size of the businesses
[01:30:17] And when we buy then we we celebrate their culture, but we're gonna bring them on to the ground works way of culture
[01:30:22] Which you can marry those two hundred percent and the way we married them was by leveraging extreme ownership as our culture
[01:30:30] And
[01:30:32] So it empowers a given culture if they embrace these things and they do and so every acquisition now we run an FTX for the the
[01:30:42] partners that we we've just brought on
[01:30:44] I think we've run 16 of those now
[01:30:47] all kind of senior level leadership go to monsters
[01:30:51] You know, we're gonna send 23 folks Dallas it's part of our
[01:30:56] Leadership development training program at ground works and you know
[01:30:59] we have
[01:31:01] I think the last number we spent we've sent five hundred thirty folks through training directly with the echelon front team you know
[01:31:09] JP D'Nell
[01:31:11] Carlos
[01:31:13] Corey
[01:31:15] Cody rather and then this this young guy flanned caucran back in the day
[01:31:20] You know they would lead that process for us and and really
[01:31:25] Again, not to sound like a promotion what they became part of the team like
[01:31:28] JP knows my team and
[01:31:31] He can relate the stories of our business and the construction component of our business and a way that
[01:31:37] Ties it into extreme ownership and how it applies to our business every day and
[01:31:42] That is how you really learn and that that's how it's absorbed and so
[01:31:47] Your team's done a really good job at that for us
[01:31:49] Yeah, that the
[01:31:51] You know when you talk about merging hey this idea this these principles into some other company and
[01:31:56] And sometimes I'll get out people will have discussions with leaders about that and you know that's why I don't know if it's gonna
[01:32:03] I don't know if you know our culture is gonna match and I always say I have like a
[01:32:08] I've answered this question so many times
[01:32:10] That I kind of just go oh you don't think the culture's gonna match you you maybe think you have some different leadership principles
[01:32:16] That you follow you. Yeah, you know we're just we're not the military we weren't the military so we're just you know
[01:32:21] We don't have that mindset and I said whoa, you know
[01:32:23] Let's talk about it a little bit, you know for instance we teach cover move which is teamwork which is supporting team
[01:32:28] Our you teach in that you should all stay in silos and work against each other
[01:32:32] We teach about keeping things simple our are you teaching that we should make things so complex
[01:32:36] That no one knows what's going on. We talk about prioritize next cue
[01:32:39] Do you think that in your company what you'd rather do is
[01:32:43] Spread yourself so thin over so many different things at the same time that you can't effectively do anything
[01:32:47] It is that what you're thinking and decentralized commander are you are you thinking that you don't want to empower your
[01:32:53] Subordinate leaders you want all decisions to be run through some central location and even the idea of extreme ownership
[01:32:59] Are what you think and is this doesn't match with your culture because your culture is we're gonna all sit around and blame each other and point fingers each other
[01:33:06] so like
[01:33:08] There's no
[01:33:09] Leadership human in the world that disagrees with these principles
[01:33:14] You just can't they're they're they're universal principles that are foundational to leading other human beings
[01:33:21] So the fact that you've that you recognize that that you saw oh I see this and then
[01:33:28] The step that you're talking about that that JPE and and the rest of the team the JPE does well
[01:33:33] But he's when work with you for a long time we do this all the time we do it finance companies
[01:33:37] We do with manufacturing companies like the principles apply
[01:33:40] To any organization the thing that's nice is that you were able to sit there at that master and go oh I see the alignment between
[01:33:48] Oh decentralized command well late to see I got a bunch of disaggregated people
[01:33:51] I got small elements that are going out in the field
[01:33:53] They've got to understand how they're gonna interact with the customer that's how we're gonna get good feedback
[01:33:57] That's how we're gonna grow our business. Oh, okay, that makes sense. Oh, what about prioritize next here?
[01:34:02] Oh, yeah, well, we've got all these things that are gonna go wrong on a job site if we don't have people that
[01:34:07] Understand if we don't have people that understand how to react to those things and how to figure out what the most important thing is an execute on that
[01:34:14] And you just were able to
[01:34:16] See that and and therefore take any go hey, we need to run with that and that's
[01:34:21] That's an impressive call to make. Oh, thank you. Okay
[01:34:26] And retrospect it looks like genius, right, but but can't really at the time it was
[01:34:31] Back to that simple equation how do you build leaders right? I've truly believe that that and you've said this main movement a thousand times or more
[01:34:39] That you can teach leadership
[01:34:41] You can teach it and you should teach it and you should learn to be a student of leadership, right? And so look you've got so many war heroes on this podcast
[01:34:49] I'm the opposite of that. I'm just a normal knuckle dragger, you know entrepreneur
[01:34:54] But you don't have to be in the military to embrace these principles
[01:34:56] If you if you if you lead anything in your life
[01:34:59] These principles apply and I'm again just the walking example of that and my company is as well and so
[01:35:07] What you've seen at ground works is
[01:35:09] is the belief that
[01:35:12] If you at unite people on a mission and
[01:35:16] You empower them and
[01:35:18] Train them and believe in them
[01:35:21] You can do the impossible
[01:35:23] You know part of part of the notion of ground works and we've taken extreme ownership a little deeper than just the laws of combat
[01:35:33] At our company we have ever 235 owners so think about the decentralized business, right?
[01:35:38] So today the business again north of 800 million we have
[01:35:42] 49 locations
[01:35:44] At each one of those locations as a general manager a sales manager a production manager an office manager
[01:35:51] My manager of philosophy before even reading the book pretty simple
[01:35:56] When I hear the best possible person like a possibly higher and afford that does change over time
[01:36:01] But you want to do that you want to give them the best equipment you can afford to as a business training
[01:36:05] equipment whatever might need you want to
[01:36:09] Build and center programs that allow them as an individual to win when the company wins
[01:36:15] And then you want to hold them accountable
[01:36:17] So if you believe in that concept again that that's pretty simple management philosophy
[01:36:21] People even that concept and you super layer in the principle of the stream ownership and then you say one step further
[01:36:29] All you leaders in the branches
[01:36:31] You're going to be literally owners of our business
[01:36:33] So I don't want you just to
[01:36:37] Adopt extreme ownership live that way if you do that and you really believe it and we as a company win
[01:36:44] You and your family will get the benefit of that by ownership and so look at ground works
[01:36:49] We're going to make over a hundred millionaires out of this company for men and women that work with their hands
[01:36:56] Think about how many companies out there in the valley and and solve work companies startups you have all these young
[01:37:01] And they've earned it, but all these young overnight miners walking around
[01:37:08] I always felt like you can bring that same mindset to a skilled trades business
[01:37:14] You could and we're going to prove that it can be done and by doing that
[01:37:18] I'm going to track world-class talent to this business if you're at another home services company today
[01:37:23] if you're at you know window company or
[01:37:26] I won't say any company names, but if you're at any any company and you want to get after it
[01:37:33] And I don't mean just believe in the philosophy of this and also what we are building as a company
[01:37:38] But if you care about working with people that care and you want to build something unique
[01:37:43] And we get rewarded for that as a business and as an individual to help your family
[01:37:48] We're the only business that I think in home services adopted that mindset and that's why we're winning like
[01:37:56] Groundwork success has nothing to do with matmalon it has to do with the 4200 people that make it up
[01:38:02] Only thing I did was kind of push and know it's shut the strategy and adopt all these different tribes
[01:38:08] Not just Eostrategy, but how we in scent we have profit sharing programs for example
[01:38:12] We have good benefits
[01:38:13] You know we have a career path where many women can join here and have a profession
[01:38:18] The many of the companies that I buy man, it is a job. Here's why you buy a family owned business and Mr. Smith is at the top
[01:38:25] And Mr. Smith's kids at the business and say it's a ten-man dollar business
[01:38:30] You're the third man down
[01:38:32] How are you going to get any more money? How are you going to grow? Well, in that kind of environment you're not going to grow
[01:38:36] So family owned businesses are great. We love them
[01:38:38] But in our business, I want someone on on on our staff to take my job
[01:38:44] They should
[01:38:45] That's what we're built to do is that if we build an environment respects the men and women that get up every day and work with their hands
[01:38:51] Shaco in the mud like it we have office in North Dakota
[01:38:54] And far go these dudes are out there in 10 degrees. We got offices in Miami
[01:38:58] It's a 110 degrees out there some days these guys get out there protect consumers great to sat there asset their home
[01:39:05] It's not sexy
[01:39:07] It's hard work, but at our company we can make it profession and a livelihood that recruits a best possible town the world in home
[01:39:14] Service has to do something's never been done and it's it's a big dream but it's not me
[01:39:20] It's my team the team is building it and that's what's great about not only our company, but this country is it
[01:39:26] You can do that you can do that here still and you're not spring or you know what I'm talking about so
[01:39:31] E.o. has been a big big part of our internal mindset and culture and still is like we have
[01:39:39] Meetings they're called cover and move
[01:39:41] So when sales and production get together every week to talk about their week and the jobs that we have to do it's a little the cover and move
[01:39:48] Meeting
[01:39:49] Deep debrief and rebak that is a that those are phrases we use every day
[01:39:54] You know standard protocol
[01:39:56] It's it's but
[01:39:58] Having work in other businesses and owning other businesses the power of just a readback
[01:40:05] It's hard to explain I use it with my wife was she hates. Let me give me a readback on that
[01:40:09] What is what I heard oh your kids my Logan I I I I said okay
[01:40:16] We just discussed this
[01:40:18] Tell me what daddy just said you know so
[01:40:20] You know you live it
[01:40:22] But to you know look to two some of your listeners out there that are in the service of thinking about getting out of service one day to all the business
[01:40:28] Guys out there all the entrepreneurs
[01:40:32] Look it's real
[01:40:33] It's real if you but if you adopt it and live it is real and I have this phrase that I use all the time internally. It's
[01:40:41] You get the life you give yourself
[01:40:45] Like their externalities that have happened in your life and sometimes you can't affect them you can't do anything about them
[01:40:50] But the end of the day
[01:40:51] If you decide to get up you have the discipline to get up and get after it every day and you make it a priority
[01:40:57] You can change your course of your life and all we're doing as at groundworks is using that mindset on a business that changes 4200 lies
[01:41:08] Sounds cool now, but when when you know those slim criss-misses when you know when when I'm begging my wife to
[01:41:15] To allow us to send you know eight dudes to a mustard and DC it wasn't that way
[01:41:21] The the the the the investment that you make right so this is this is the thing that's very interesting
[01:41:27] You you are investing in your leaders and you've been investing your leaders. You know what when I got back from my last appointment when I
[01:41:34] Was in Ramadi came back and
[01:41:38] Took over the West Coast training and I was just
[01:41:41] So focused Charles focused on the shooters focused on making sure that the young guys understood that as
[01:41:47] Seals they needed to be thinking shooters absolutely, but I really really was focused on the leadership and making sure that the leaders
[01:41:53] leaders understood how to lead and
[01:41:55] It was one of the things that really opened my eyes is on that deployment and really on previous my previous deployments through my whole career
[01:42:04] The army and the Marine Corps had had absolutely professionalized and
[01:42:09] Dr. Eliz how they trained leaders so the the army
[01:42:15] The army would go to this the
[01:42:18] Company career course the career course they call it which is a company level commander and
[01:42:22] And this is like a six month or a year long school that these guys would get trained on how to lead their troops
[01:42:29] And they have that at every level in listed an officer in the army and in the Marine Corps and
[01:42:35] In the seal teams there was almost nothing there was almost nothing there was a little junior officer training course
[01:42:42] That was
[01:42:43] Lafend it up taking it over when he took it over
[01:42:45] It was hey this where you're gonna learn how to write evaluations this is gonna
[01:42:49] You're gonna learn a little bit about writing navy met navy message traffic it was
[01:42:54] And you'd get some debriefs on this stuff, but you weren't going to actually learn
[01:42:59] Any principles of leadership and it was just it was unbelievable
[01:43:04] That this was taking place and I remember as I started to try and push this hard
[01:43:09] The I went I started going up my chain of command and one of the things that I'd bring up the chain of command was was
[01:43:14] Hamburger University and
[01:43:16] Hamburger University if you don't know
[01:43:18] It's up in
[01:43:22] I think it's in Shomburg Illinois, but if you're gonna run in McDonald's you've got to go to this this course and it's like a six month school that you go to
[01:43:31] And so I remember sitting down with my boss and saying hey you have you heard in hamburger universities and what's that?
[01:43:36] I said it's if you're gonna run a freaking McDonald's
[01:43:40] You're gonna go to a six month training course on how to lead a McDonald's where you flip burgers and
[01:43:44] And fry front fries and we've got guys that have are gonna go out and and oversee combat operations and have lives at risk
[01:43:52] And we give them they don't go to any school
[01:43:55] This is a problem and and and part of the problem is because
[01:44:00] We're a victim of our own success so hey, you know
[01:44:03] Hey, Jocco you just went on deployment you came back you did a good job you weren't charged. Okay, so what we're doing is working
[01:44:08] And hey this other guy, you know, Laefa you did good you got mentored and you got trained up
[01:44:13] So that what we're doing on the job training works and it does work sometimes
[01:44:18] But it but it also fails sometimes and this is so now we find this in every industry
[01:44:23] Every industry hey, oh we we got we got echo Charles here. He's a good salesman
[01:44:29] In fact, he's our best salesman. Let's put him in charge of sales
[01:44:32] What does he know about leadership? He knows how to sell stuff. He doesn't know anything about leading. Oh, we got echo Charles here
[01:44:38] He's our best
[01:44:39] He's our best mechanic. Okay, great. What are we gonna do? Let's put him in charge of all the mechanics
[01:44:44] He's good at turn and rent. She's not good at leadership and we just throw him in there and for some reason
[01:44:52] People think that leadership is something you're just born with or that you know how to do an
[01:44:57] Intuitively and it's just factually not true. So what we encourage and what you're actually doing is oh echo
[01:45:04] You're the best mechanic
[01:45:05] We're gonna take you and we're gonna elevate you into a leadership position and we're gonna train you how to lead just like at one point
[01:45:12] We trained you on how to turn rentches and repair this carburetor. We're we're gonna we're gonna train you the same way
[01:45:19] And you've put a massive amount of investment into your leadership and
[01:45:25] One of the earlier questions, you know when we started echelon front, you know, I get asked well how are we gonna?
[01:45:30] How are we gonna know if this works? What are the metrics and know if the succeeds and I still to this day
[01:45:35] I just had this conversation the other day
[01:45:38] Whatever metric you're running at your company that means you you are successful
[01:45:42] So whether you're trying to cut the cost to produce or you're trying to improve your time to produce or you're trying to grow or whatever metric
[01:45:48] You're looking at if we do our job training your leaders that metric all those metrics that you're trying to prove on
[01:45:55] They are all going to improve that's what's going to happen and and that's where you say hey
[01:46:00] Look we actually have we do some of these like you know soft skill surveys now and you know what do you think your leadership?
[01:46:06] And that's good too. That's good feedback. It's good feedback to say hey
[01:46:10] The leadership is now has a better relationship with the troops. That's great. The troops think the leadership is more in tune with what they're thinking and what they're saying
[01:46:18] Those are those are great things to do as well
[01:46:21] But
[01:46:22] For me where the money for the rubber meets the road is hey
[01:46:25] We're trying to produce this widget in this amount of time and now we're doing it. We're cutting our costs
[01:46:30] We're getting it out ourselves people are doing better
[01:46:33] That's how we measure leadership success is what is the success of the company?
[01:46:37] So as you you invest you get that ROI and
[01:46:41] That's what I you know that's what I I love about seeing the success of your company and some of the other companies that we work with that
[01:46:48] We get to see this this incredible growth and
[01:46:51] You know I started this whole thing off saying leadership is the most important thing on the battlefield in business and
[01:46:55] Life and to look at a company like yours where you are proving
[01:46:59] How that works and how important it is and how you can grow things and how you can have
[01:47:06] 4200 employees and I'd love to you know if you are fishing for a compliment say no
[01:47:12] But mad at all starts with you. Hey, it does I'll give you a compliment. It does start with you
[01:47:17] But let's face it
[01:47:19] You've got employees that haven't seen you in three months
[01:47:23] You've got you've got someone right now making a decision in a basement
[01:47:28] 100% on on something that's happening and and that individual is making the right decision as a leader on the front lines
[01:47:36] He's empowered to do that and you
[01:47:39] You couldn't see that if your life dependent on it you couldn't help that person make that decision
[01:47:45] Except for the fact that you already have helped them because you trained him as a leader
[01:47:48] They understand the culture they understand the mission of the company and when you do that it allows you to
[01:47:55] To drive a company forward with people at every level
[01:47:59] Leading making the right decisions and moving in the same direction strategically. It's the only way to scale
[01:48:05] Right, so you you just gave that great example you have a we have forming right now
[01:48:09] It's a forming right now probably anywhere in the country, right? So say it's in Kansas City and
[01:48:13] The footers not where you need to be and he's laying down when he needs to lay down he's second
[01:48:17] Wow shit what I got to do here he's been empowered. He knows the number one objective take care of the customer
[01:48:24] If it costs a few dollars more no factor if it costs a couple hundred dollars more no factor if it costs like a thousand dollars
[01:48:31] I'm gonna fire call my soup to make sure it's cool, but that soup's gonna know no factor go serve the customer
[01:48:36] Okay, but that mindset is is is is is part of our culture and that comes from the investment that you make in a business
[01:48:44] We see it all the time when we buy businesses, you know this this this this old and I call it lazy
[01:48:51] The notion of all in the job training is lazy
[01:48:54] It's lazy if you if you say to yourself
[01:48:58] I want to be world class. I want to be good
[01:49:00] You don't stick just a guy with a guy and say go learn from jaco because he's really good at this
[01:49:06] That's lazy small businesses do that that don't want to grow
[01:49:09] If you if you want to get institutional approach to changing an industry and being the best possible business
[01:49:15] You can possibly be it has to be part of who you are and that takes time investment and energy and our
[01:49:22] KPIs at groundwork. They've exploded over the last
[01:49:26] four years five years
[01:49:28] A lot of factors one key factor one key factor
[01:49:31] Is investing in leadership training you can't be a leader in our company unless you go through it every employee gets a book
[01:49:39] I mean, it's it you can't get away from it now. Do they read it? I don't know
[01:49:44] But you can't be a leader and a manager. I'm sorry. You can't be a manager. You can be a leader without being a manager
[01:49:50] You can't be a manager at groundwork without going through a course
[01:49:54] And that's just who we are now
[01:49:56] As you know human beings are human beings and some people take it better than others but on average I think our culture is such that
[01:50:03] If you don't live that way you're kind of weed it out
[01:50:06] Because there's a complete alignment on what we are doing as a business
[01:50:10] Not just our mission of building a great world-class home services company
[01:50:15] But there's a culture internally of we're gonna do it the right way
[01:50:18] We're gonna care about the men and women that work here
[01:50:21] We call it walking in the light and living with the servants heart
[01:50:24] And yes, we serve the customer
[01:50:26] But my leaders we serve each other and if the the overall goal is to build a great business where we all win
[01:50:35] And what we're literally making may-in-airs out of men and women that never have gone to college
[01:50:41] We are serving one another
[01:50:43] Yeah, and that's that's the powerful thing. I got to share this one pit with you so fast for
[01:50:50] I'm running out of money
[01:50:52] So this was in 19
[01:50:57] Serenite you know, we put everything we had in this business. I sold
[01:51:01] So I sold Petro Cam that company I first started with to put back into groundwork
[01:51:05] So I sold it to a big time private equity for a mountain San Francisco
[01:51:10] Huge return for me and the misses. I can't say it publicly, but it's
[01:51:15] Way north of five times over 20
[01:51:18] Oh
[01:51:21] Shipyard staffing have a great partner that his name is Jack Anthony that I partnered up with the run that business from a heat
[01:51:28] He absolutely crushed it for us
[01:51:30] sold that to all of all funds the founders fund
[01:51:35] The most legitimate vase VC farm in the world probably Peter Thiel and his team and and all the great investments
[01:51:41] Some knuckle drag a promotion view
[01:51:43] sold his company to Peter Thiel the guy that you know space X and pay for all those things, right?
[01:51:50] He started a company called work rise
[01:51:53] They are in the oligas industry they bought our little platform to enter the marine industry into defense industry
[01:51:59] Like it's surreal only in America, right?
[01:52:01] So we took every penny that we had from those things pot of right pick and the groundworks, but still wasn't enough
[01:52:07] So in 19
[01:52:09] You know we decided now I had outside investors I had some friends and family, you know like folks that that I've seen and and been friends with
[01:52:17] No institutional no big money guys
[01:52:21] We wanted to continue this mission and I had worked for four or five years developing relationships of companies to buy some big ones and so I
[01:52:28] Finally had to bite the bullet and and bring on a financial partner so
[01:52:32] We are fortunate enough. I have a really good friend that is a great investment banker John Nunes or forehome services and
[01:52:40] I literally saw him on a sunrise service on Easter you love this so
[01:52:45] He don't live in VB, but you know I have this little guy Logan and you know
[01:52:49] We can't take him to church on Easter Sunday because he's mad man Hilbert on around
[01:52:54] So sirs like hey, let's go this sunrise service. We'll just run off and serve for whatever he does
[01:52:58] We're still got to be able to go to church right so he's running around and where at this sunrise service
[01:53:02] And I look behind me there's just guy John nooner who hadn't seen since college by the way
[01:53:06] I was his RA one of the other jobs I hadn't college. I was an RA. It's terrible don't judge
[01:53:12] Not good gig, but there this is guy John nooner. He said hey, I'm gonna fall in your company
[01:53:16] So this was in this was April of 19 and I say this is a great timing because we need a we need a financial partner
[01:53:23] So we talked about 13 private equity from some of the greatest brands in the world
[01:53:26] 13 offers which again, that's surreal right you build a company and you know the names of all these firms
[01:53:35] Right, so it's kind of well it's pretty exciting
[01:53:38] We took it down to three and ultimately picked one we picked a group called quartet at a New York
[01:53:45] They have a guy that is our chairman of the guy named David Shnodik who is legitimate savage
[01:53:50] So he's he's more aggressive than me
[01:53:52] But they had great experience with Yeti so they built Yeti they were the private equity firm behind Yeti
[01:53:59] You know, they took that thing from whatever 40 million to billion and it's public now and but they're really good at marketing
[01:54:05] And I wanted to transform my business into consumer marketing company. Yes, we do construction
[01:54:10] Yes, I have the the horsepower behind the scenes or men and women that dual with that their hands
[01:54:14] But how we went in the marketplace with consumers is being differentiated so that when
[01:54:18] Like it's the Amazon approach when I'm coming to your house
[01:54:22] You see you're going to get a text it's going to show where my car is is going to say hey this guy's going to show up here
[01:54:27] What he looks like so he went to leverage technology and and really leverage how we attack the consumer side of our business
[01:54:34] And I thought they were good at that and so we partnered up with them and then you know COVID hit right so imagine
[01:54:40] Big investment
[01:54:42] COVID
[01:54:43] Everyone is scared at this time right
[01:54:45] Thankfully at groundworks we were we were we were a
[01:54:50] Essential business which I love so we have these these shirts that we gave out called the essentials
[01:54:56] But I remember how to get lawyers to give letters to every driver so as we went down the road
[01:55:00] You know if they got stopped they could put out this letter and say look where you know we're such a so we went to work
[01:55:05] and
[01:55:07] You know
[01:55:08] Some parts of the country took over a lot different
[01:55:10] I'll tell you this my guys that was there COVID
[01:55:13] Like we just got after it now the only thing we did can so it was a kickoff of course, which you put your part of that but
[01:55:19] We just got after it and
[01:55:21] Which even crazier so this this this this group core tech
[01:55:25] I had lined up four or five big deals big companies to buy and
[01:55:29] You know what we haven't talked about it so the founders that I bought these companies I call them the founders
[01:55:35] Made of some of the best men and women in the country
[01:55:38] We've been very lucky our strategies we buy the best brand in a given state
[01:55:41] We expand from their opening new offices
[01:55:46] And as you look at the map today, you know, we're
[01:55:50] We're we're getting there. We're kind of really southeast Midwest
[01:55:53] Mid Atlantic we're not west coast. We're not Texasia. We're not Pacific Northeast or New England
[01:56:00] But we're multi-billion dollar business just in our current footprint. Well, I buy these businesses from these founders who were guys that started with nothing
[01:56:06] They built these businesses and we give them good money for their businesses is great money
[01:56:10] Many of them most them reinvest a little bit into groundwork so they're my partners and they you know they give me counts on things like that
[01:56:18] So as we're we're building these businesses buying these businesses. I needed to buy a few of these big ones and you know
[01:56:25] And I didn't see quartet for many many months. I think I've seen them five times and save invests
[01:56:31] And they've given us a lot of money so we started on a buying bench and and I bought four the best brands in the country
[01:56:37] We do all our M&A and house so I do all them and they with my team
[01:56:42] Quartet a lot us to do that they were exactly as I thought they would be part of the reason I picked them going back to
[01:56:48] What we were talking about the importance of investing an ROI and leadership development and training
[01:56:54] They completely bought off on that
[01:56:56] It was net most PE firms. I should some PE firms
[01:57:00] You know they're looking for every penny to go to the bottom line
[01:57:03] Never ever once have they said
[01:57:07] Don't do that or why are you doing that because it's part of who we are in the magic sauce and like what you look
[01:57:12] We've gone from 30 to 800
[01:57:15] We'll do cross a bay in this year
[01:57:17] You don't do that without investing in your people and you can't do all the job training
[01:57:23] When you grow that fast so when I say it's lazy
[01:57:25] It's it's lazy in the sense that a small business can do that because echo and I can go and he'll teach me how to swing that wrench and
[01:57:33] Hopefully I'll be a good
[01:57:35] Mechanic at some point but you can't do that when you can you go from
[01:57:39] 190 people to 4200 and
[01:57:42] You know
[01:57:43] 360 thousand in payroll that was that was that was payroll from when you first bought the company
[01:57:48] I knew my wife and I could cover that maybe for a month or two if we had to
[01:57:52] slight 20 plus now
[01:57:54] It's so it's also real for me so the importance of investing and
[01:57:59] Not doing on the job the ROI for us has been I don't know if you could calculate it can't delay because it's built into everything we do at the company
[01:58:07] So it's not like
[01:58:08] one specific thing that makes this company great. It's it's thrown into the
[01:58:13] The mindset that culture
[01:58:15] It's so into everything that we try to do and it's a big piece of it as you know I mean, but it's thrown into that so I've never been asked for my board
[01:58:24] And I got some look I got legit guy. I'm up some legit guys on my board that have run public companies
[01:58:29] Some of the biggest sum services companies. They've never said
[01:58:32] Hey, what's just line item here leadership development. They've never said it because they know two we are because I gave him a book at first time
[01:58:38] I met
[01:58:40] I think it was project jocca
[01:58:42] I thought they yeah
[01:58:46] When you were talking about how the the culture gets into the system and it becomes part of who you are
[01:58:53] I was thinking so I was going to officer candidates school and when you're at officer candidate school
[01:58:58] When you first show up there, it's you know, it's a
[01:59:02] total indoctrination boot camp style indoctrination
[01:59:05] And you what one of the rules the avalies weird rules one of the rules is that you can't look at your food
[01:59:11] So you sit down to eat and you can't look at your food. You can only look straight ahead
[01:59:16] And remember I was an enlisted guy from my first eight years and I'm kind of street smart
[01:59:22] So I'm sitting down and I got to eat and I think it was like chicken breast right?
[01:59:27] So how you gonna eat a chicken breast without looking at like how's that even gonna work right?
[01:59:31] But also I'm thinking how are they possibly gonna see if I'd glance down on my food right?
[01:59:36] So and really the people there's drill instructors so there's marine core drill instructors there
[01:59:41] But there's also the senior officer candidates are there so there so there so there are everyone to watching you when you get into the
[01:59:47] Chowhall for the first couple month the very all time but the first couple meals where this happened to me
[01:59:51] So I'm sitting there I sit down you know and people are yelling screaming
[01:59:55] You know don't look at your food look straight ahead. They call it squaring your meals also you have to lift your your food has to go up
[02:00:02] straight, you know
[02:00:04] 90 degrees up from the ground from the plate you have to bring it up straight and then you know 90 degree turn into your mouth
[02:00:10] That's how you got to eat they call it squaring your meals you have to look straight ahead
[02:00:14] So as I'm sitting there I'm thinking they're never gonna be able to tell them look at my food
[02:00:17] I'm just gonna glance down and get it you know see what part of the chicken breast I'm about to eat
[02:00:21] So I kind of glance down there and it's soon a
[02:00:24] A millisecond after I look down
[02:00:26] They're like oh, what are you doing and they get it and I was thinking myself how did they see that so fast forward
[02:00:32] 10 weeks or 11 weeks now. I'm one of the senior people and
[02:00:37] I'm standing at the end of the table and
[02:00:40] Everyone is staring straight ahead and it and when one person glances down for a half a second
[02:00:45] It's so blatantly obvious it stands out so much even though you wouldn't think and they could see you
[02:00:51] It stands out blatantly obvious and that's the that's what I think happens inside these companies that we work with where
[02:00:58] You get this attitude of ownership and when it starts to sink in
[02:01:04] Anybody on the team that's like well, you know, that's actually is it my fault
[02:01:08] It is like so obvious to everyone and eventually it becomes obvious to yourself
[02:01:14] Eventually as you're about to say well, you know, this isn't really my fault. This is
[02:01:18] And you can't even get those words out of your mouth instead you say you know what what can I do to fix this problem?
[02:01:23] And it's it's a beautiful thing to say it's a beautiful thing to see and when you get that when you get that whole
[02:01:31] Attitude that culture in so deep man. It's really becomes unstoppable it really does because everyone on the team now becomes
[02:01:39] They're looking to solve problems. They're not looking to blame. They're looking to solve problems
[02:01:43] You combine that with decentralized command. They're have the authority to solve problems
[02:01:47] They know they can fix that problem for a hundred dollars and you know what's even also? You know, we're talking about that example
[02:01:53] You got somebody's part of the foundations a little bit messed up
[02:01:57] The attitude he fixed that problem that problems probably not happening because going into that moment when they were about to set that fixture
[02:02:07] That guy says hey, you know what if this isn't good
[02:02:11] I know I'm gonna have to fix it and I know if it's not good and it's gonna cost money to fix it
[02:02:17] I'm gonna have to call my super advisor and say hey, I mess this up and you know
[02:02:20] We're gonna have to eat this one
[02:02:22] So you get that preemptive ownership where people care more about the job
[02:02:26] They want to do it correctly the first time because they are taking ownership
[02:02:31] You know that's one of the bad things about extreme ownership is the first books all about oh
[02:02:36] Extreme ownership is in the past it's a mistake that happened and oh, it's my fault which is good
[02:02:41] But what's even better than that?
[02:02:43] I'm not if you let that mistake happen and that's what when you when you have it infuse like you have it at your company
[02:02:48] People are allowing that for those things to happen and
[02:02:52] And that's a powerful thing and then you reinforce that behavior by when they when they do make it
[02:02:58] Session or there is a mistake you say no problem. Yep. I'd rather make that mistake and and not get on the guy for overcorrecting
[02:03:04] Right, then undercorrecting and that feeds on itself too like if they know okay
[02:03:08] Like I was empowered to make this decision and I might have gone overkill and maybe I laid down more track and I needed to
[02:03:14] Or maybe this is how but it's perfect. So perfect job
[02:03:16] You say okay you probably overbuilt that behavior. Good good for on you you took care of the customer
[02:03:21] We call it you know protecting the patch you got to protect the brand. Yeah, so you know
[02:03:28] A little bit you know you you've you've you've glass on this couple times and we've been on for a little bit
[02:03:31] But I just wanted before you before you kind of close out
[02:03:34] You know one thing you you mentioned a couple times was you know that the fact that we we got an average age of
[02:03:40] Well, there's that your company your prior company was 54 years old
[02:03:44] As you know, I'm also in the business of people working with their hands
[02:03:48] We've got we've got people that are manufacturing things in America that haven't been manufactured a long time here
[02:03:54] Passing on we were lucky enough to grab some of that knowledge
[02:03:57] You know Pete was lucky enough to grab some of that knowledge from some of these people that were older than 54 years old
[02:04:03] You know that were 65 we've lost some of those those mentors at origin that were passing on first hand knowledge of how to do this stuff
[02:04:12] Is there something that we could do better as a country
[02:04:17] To help steer people in the right direction. I know I just worked with a
[02:04:21] University up and up in Indiana called called Ivy Ivy Tech and they teach traits that's what they're doing and
[02:04:29] You know I had an interesting conversation with them
[02:04:31] It's like the the highest paying job that you can get out of Ivy Tech is a elevator
[02:04:38] Repairment
[02:04:39] Elevator repairman and they make like 80 grand coming out of that school you make 80 grand a year and you got a you got a
[02:04:47] Job a career all life
[02:04:50] What how are how are we failing to educate the the young people in America that they don't necessarily have to go to college
[02:04:59] They don't necessarily have to get a degree and they don't necessarily have to look for
[02:05:04] Some kind of a job
[02:05:05] Some kind of a white collar job that if you go and you get a trade and you learn how to do something
[02:05:11] And I always say this the seal teams
[02:05:14] On the enlisted side this is as blue colors it gets I mean, that's what you're doing you're working a machine gun
[02:05:19] You're you're building demolition charges your it is and you're moving company
[02:05:24] We always joke about the fact of always moving stuff
[02:05:26] But where are we making that mistake how could we do better in America
[02:05:32] Well, I think it starts with the perception of these these jobs, right so
[02:05:37] If you think about
[02:05:39] At home right the parents thank now hey, I don't want you to be a plumber. I want you to go to college
[02:05:44] Well if you look at the data you say okay look it you got a
[02:05:48] Was it 1.6 train of college debt and you have no and I don't want to fend anybody but this will
[02:05:53] He have you're getting you know degrees and like art history right now no fence the art history
[02:06:00] But how many historians of art do you think they're or in the world that actually operate as art historians?
[02:06:07] Seven they can't be many right
[02:06:09] I mean I don't know but they're they're not the they're not thousands of these jobs and what do they pay?
[02:06:15] So there's this perception how you go to college as your ticket well
[02:06:19] The data would actually show if you if you if you if you do a skill trade at least my experience
[02:06:25] So we unemployment division as well look you you have you have plumbers that easily make
[02:06:30] 80 96 figures
[02:06:32] I know welders that worked for us a shipyard staffing if you're not making six figures you're not any good
[02:06:37] at groundworks you know a good form and a good form and it's 90 to a hundred 20 thousand dollars a year
[02:06:44] now you got to work for it
[02:06:46] but think about
[02:06:47] the perception of
[02:06:49] a hidden high school saying hey look I'm gonna go do be electrician now that's a skill that will
[02:06:55] They can go anywhere and do anything and I would argue economically and today is world
[02:07:00] Their value is only increasing because there's fewer and fewer scarcity does cost you it does drive value
[02:07:05] So as a college I believe it's this this we've been shoved
[02:07:09] this idea for the last 20 25 years that you have to go to college to be successful
[02:07:13] That has to change how does that change it's it's can't really parents
[02:07:19] I always believe it starts at home the perception of hey Mike Magiani and Sally whatever they need to go to college
[02:07:24] you'd be successful not for everyone I'll tell you just a quick story at groundworks
[02:07:29] I have a and you know flink popcorn joined our companies to be with EF
[02:07:34] You know Harvard Business School McKinsey he's divisional vice president of our East Coast division our Eastern division
[02:07:39] He is a counterpart at West his name is Jeffrey Martin. Jeffrey Martin went to Moverly High School
[02:07:46] That's where he went so this notion of meritocracy is alive and well at groundworks and that's just a perfect example of it
[02:07:53] if if we if we if we celebrate the minimum and that work with their hands and not demean them we'll get more of them
[02:08:01] And then I think look there has to be some kind of mindset that that says oh
[02:08:04] We as a country need to unite around developing more skill trades and pushing it back down to the high school
[02:08:10] I don't know if you know, but I don't know any high schools that really have you know that kind of craft
[02:08:15] And it's not for everybody look on a college is not for everybody, but there are there are there are things we need to do as a country
[02:08:23] And I know you you know this better than me
[02:08:26] You know men and women that lead this country from a legislative standpoint need to figure out a way to push this agenda because if they don't
[02:08:33] Nassurcurity National Security and my view will be at risk I only know that from shipyard staffing and
[02:08:39] If you can't repair these boats and you can't build them
[02:08:42] And I don't even that's not even including planes and tanks and everything else
[02:08:46] They still has to be welded
[02:08:50] An art history degrees not gonna get you there
[02:08:53] So how how we solve this as a country look again my view has to start at home parents need to think okay
[02:08:58] They're still a great livelihood for my my son or daughter by being a skill tradesman and we have to as a society
[02:09:06] Celebrate it
[02:09:08] Like part of the thing at ground works is we're celebrating profession
[02:09:11] We we honor you because you work with your hands you're you're not beneath me
[02:09:15] Now most of these art history majors they end up slinging you coffee at Starbucks, right?
[02:09:19] So you know you look at I mean you say okay
[02:09:22] There's two hundred grand down the toilet that you and I will have to pay for
[02:09:24] Conversely you go to all the parents out there if you have kids
[02:09:28] They can go to a trade school they come out not in that but making money and they you know
[02:09:34] They have a nice six figure job all to make a ton of money. So it's it's it's to has to start at home
[02:09:40] But I think legislative
[02:09:42] Legislative we we need to do better at celebrating the skill trades and put a concerted effort on building it
[02:09:48] Just like you would build a military
[02:09:51] It's it's really what we're building
[02:09:53] And then
[02:09:55] Like you mentioned I'm I'm in the manufacturing business well doing it here in America beautiful
[02:10:02] You guys are are you how much are you able to
[02:10:05] Keep your manufacturing in America. It's all in America. So I didn't mention this, but we're vertically integrated as you know
[02:10:10] We bought we have our software business, but we make our own
[02:10:14] Steel products as well so
[02:10:16] Get too technical because you're fall asleep, but you know when we when we secure foundations we get to the footer
[02:10:20] We put brackets on and we drive steel to support the foundations of a home
[02:10:24] Well all that steel
[02:10:26] We've abandoned our own products and we we actually make it in a hundred twenty thousand square foot facility in Rosewood, South Carolina
[02:10:33] You know we have we have lasers and and and machines and you know 40 guys out there get an after it
[02:10:38] So that's not imported steel we do it right here in America
[02:10:43] You know all our pumps and de-hues also made here in America. It's it's our little part
[02:10:47] To serve the countries if you can do it you should do it and again we we're not big manufacturers like you guys, but
[02:10:55] If you're going to serve the country in any little way you need to serve the country in part way of serve in the country is
[02:11:00] Make it here in America. I think we saw with pandemic and
[02:11:04] What's going on in China and the rest of the world hey man
[02:11:08] It'd be nice to have a supply chain from from some South Carolina versus from India and it's sitting off the coast here right now
[02:11:15] in a boat
[02:11:16] I've always I'm a very lucky person and in a lot of different ways, but certainly
[02:11:23] the luck
[02:11:25] the luck of being a kind of obsessed with building stuff in America and
[02:11:29] Having that supply chain up and you know Pete and the rest of the team at origin
[02:11:34] you know
[02:11:35] We when COVID hit we were kind of looking around had look we were
[02:11:40] It was horrible. I have you know people are losing their jobs. It was horrible, but we were kind of looking around like notting our head going
[02:11:45] We were on the right path and we're not worried about we're not we don't have
[02:11:49] We don't have containers sitting off the coast of wherever waiting to
[02:11:54] Waiting to get here. We have our supply chain. It's an American supply chain and then like you said
[02:12:00] We're employing Americans and we got people that are are building this country and and taking these skills
[02:12:07] You know how to conversation with someone's talking about
[02:12:10] You know people people not being fit for the military right you can sure you've seen articles like that
[02:12:14] You know they say that the kids are spending so much time on video games or whatever that they don't even be
[02:12:20] Fit to join the military
[02:12:22] You know and I kind of said well who's gonna fight the wars if a war comes? Well, this is a very similar thing
[02:12:28] Right who's gonna weld the ships who's gonna manufacture the weapons who's gonna actually have the skills to do that
[02:12:35] and yeah, that's the idea
[02:12:39] I think
[02:12:40] You you mentioned that
[02:12:42] Who's going to a technical schools nowadays you know it's just I don't even know
[02:12:48] Like the high school or my kids went they they don't they are trying now to reopen the the the
[02:12:56] Auto motive you know repair section when I went to high school all the kids were working on cars
[02:13:01] It was part of you know everyone was building their own car and and doing that and then a lot of them went on to do that for a living
[02:13:07] Where's that where who's gonna do this stuff now if we don't refocus
[02:13:12] America on
[02:13:14] On the the skills that we need as a nation to be self-sufficient
[02:13:20] Could not agree more just don't need to say more could not agree more and
[02:13:25] If it's not done, Jocca there would be real ramifications to it right I mean
[02:13:29] It's a it's a silent killer at the moment because it's getting done
[02:13:33] people don't even know it
[02:13:35] Again average age
[02:13:37] I've read that average as you be in manufacturing job in the country's 55
[02:13:42] average age yeah, I got to throw one more thing out there because I've I've
[02:13:46] Just for anyone that's 18 19 20 22 years old whatever you are
[02:13:51] A lot of times I talk to people and they say well, you know, I don't want to be doing that kind of physical labor my whole life
[02:13:57] Well, I'm gonna tell you right now if you go if you become an electrician or you become a plumber
[02:14:02] You're not gonna do that if you're if you're smart in your hardworking and you really get after it and you have the intention
[02:14:10] Of elevating in that environment
[02:14:13] You will absolutely do it. I mean who's the guy you were talking about that's a high school graduate
[02:14:18] That's a Jeffrey Martin. So yeah, so Jeffrey Martin. Is he is he right now how old is Jeffrey Martin? 32 32 has dad owned the business
[02:14:25] He started okay, so he was slaying in steel at like 14 or 15 right so his experience level is crazy
[02:14:32] Right, so but he did 20 years is sling in steel
[02:14:36] He's not in a crawl space anymore, you know, and so my point is that and I've got all I've got multiple friends like this that started off
[02:14:45] They were electrician and
[02:14:46] They were an electrician for four years six years and in all the sudden they
[02:14:51] Got put in charge of two electricians and then they got put in charge of four electricians
[02:14:55] Then they went and said you know what if I'm gonna be running four electricians
[02:14:57] I might as well just have my own business, right and they start their own businesses and
[02:15:01] And now they have 28 electricians working for me and you can go in any one of these trades
[02:15:05] If you have the mindset and you want to learn and you want to grow and you want to you want to take a little extra time to
[02:15:11] Understand the financial part of it if you have that mindset
[02:15:15] You can run you can run any kind of business that you want so don't think when
[02:15:20] I'm sitting here or Matt sitting here saying hey, we need people that are gonna know how to weld
[02:15:25] We do but this doesn't mean you're gonna be necessarily welding until you're 62 years old
[02:15:30] You can if you want to that's correct, but if your goal is to
[02:15:34] Is to grow out of that role you'll have the experience to do it
[02:15:37] You'll have the money to do it and you will definitely in this country have the opportunity to do it
[02:15:43] That's what America provides 100% the notion that by the way you can't be educated
[02:15:49] By not going to college is false the notion is you go to college you get educated
[02:15:54] You can be educated by doing your craft and still learning and being a learned adult
[02:16:01] You just have to take the time to do it
[02:16:02] You have to read the books you have to study on your own there's the notion that these some things
[02:16:07] It'll 100% correlate it or wrong. That's part of the mindset is I know a lot of very smart
[02:16:12] Forman a lot of very smart form you join our company you start as an installer
[02:16:16] Take sure you're to get to a form if you're any good then after that a couple years you can move to super and then production
[02:16:22] Manager and then ultimately to general manager then all three two regional manager and then division
[02:16:27] And then hopefully one day CEO, but the point is you still have to take and do the work
[02:16:32] Do the work of growing your mind investing in yourself and you don't have to have a sheep skin to say it
[02:16:38] You just have to have the mindset to go learn and and the notion that the two are or a
[02:16:45] Separated is as a fallacy in my opinion and it's it's just all you know he you mentioned
[02:16:49] Peter Teal right Peter Teal like he's he's hiring people and he's been doing that
[02:16:55] He doesn't care if you want to college or not and he's running a freaking you know he's running a giant
[02:17:00] Giant company that's that's moving money billions of dollars look at all these founders out
[02:17:05] These big founders the big name founders as you see out there musk and feel and and
[02:17:10] Duck and all these guys
[02:17:11] They don't have a degree
[02:17:13] I call them zuck at like I don't know
[02:17:15] Yeah, that's your real awesome stuff probably a good place. We get to the it's so we let's just look where we at right now
[02:17:24] Groundworks what's the what's the future?
[02:17:26] Well, I think ultimately
[02:17:29] We want to continue the mission of course expand. I look at I think all of this is a public company
[02:17:33] I think we're we're getting to the point we're gonna be so big you're gonna need to cap it
[02:17:37] I'll tell you I'll tell me go public I think right now if you think about our business
[02:17:41] We are in the water management displacement business
[02:17:43] But you know we operate with an MPS
[02:17:47] Over 70 MPS is net promoter squads how you measure your performance with consumers
[02:17:52] You know we're gonna move into other home services lines we we believe are our mindset and our ability to
[02:17:59] Service the customer we think their other lines so we can get into the further expand our business
[02:18:03] You know gutters and
[02:18:06] Plumbing and other things like we're just beginning to build this business and so
[02:18:09] Ultimately, I think groundworks will be my passion will be that this this is a business last a hundred years
[02:18:17] that
[02:18:19] A business that celebrates again many women that work with their hands
[02:18:23] They can go for a not a job but for a profession
[02:18:27] That's built with a with a common sense of respect and dignity where it's a true meritocracy that doesn't matter
[02:18:32] Where you come from what degree you have that you can come to a company like groundworks and make it to the very top
[02:18:40] That so that's where we're going that's where we're going. I do I have look you hurt my career
[02:18:44] It's a little bumpy and and uh it's you know my buddies call me the force gump of finance and some of these stores like that
[02:18:50] Brother that can't be true. Last where it's all true
[02:18:53] But I don't know I just know if we build something great you invest in people
[02:18:57] You surround yourself with really smart people
[02:18:59] And you and you you push them to grow and be better
[02:19:03] You can do anything. Okay. I think that's that's where we go in it. I if I could just make one final comment
[02:19:11] Is you think about your listeners. Do you think about kind of how we started?
[02:19:17] I would just say this if if you truly
[02:19:19] Sitting there and you want to be in business. You want to be an entrepreneur and you but you want to invest in yourself
[02:19:25] And you believe that that ultimately
[02:19:27] You get the life you give yourself that
[02:19:31] You can do it you can do it if you
[02:19:34] Put in the time you have the discipline
[02:19:37] You're obsessed about whatever it is
[02:19:40] I hope you know the dialogue and you gathered from our conversation that you in this country
[02:19:46] If you can do it and
[02:19:48] a guy like me
[02:19:50] Yeah, no cool drag or promotion view you know sitting down here with the
[02:19:53] So
[02:19:56] Jaco and his team and the best podcast in the country and
[02:20:00] The folks I've been able to to meet and my career
[02:20:03] But most importantly you can you can really do the impossible
[02:20:07] if you really just go after it and
[02:20:11] That's that's I hope you'll listen or take away is that anything is possible
[02:20:14] It truly is just you just gotta go do it and it's not easy
[02:20:18] Oh no and there's gonna be nights and your wife's gonna look at you and say don't mess on that email and you're gonna have to get up
[02:20:24] And you're gonna take risks and you're gonna do things and you're not gonna win every time and
[02:20:30] And that's when it counts that's what when when you say you gotta keep going
[02:20:34] That's when it counts
[02:20:35] It's a different to find a hardship. That's the only way to get better looking I'm not a seal. I'll never serve
[02:20:39] But I'm sure that's how you guys look at it but business business is no different
[02:20:43] And you know that you're not your nerd the ups and downs characters really you learn more on failure than you do on victory and
[02:20:51] And they just a character is defined by the things that make you a better person and a better business person
[02:20:58] You know we we believe that at ground works we talk about walking in the light the goal is to make everyone a better human
[02:21:04] And if you're better human you're better professional and
[02:21:08] You know, I joked about the Catholic thing to begin with the morality that kind of instilled
[02:21:12] But you can do the impossible if you do walk in the light you care about others you lead with a servant heart
[02:21:21] You you make the mistakes you do you you you make the investments you take the risk
[02:21:25] You get up every day even if it's off the ground and you do it again
[02:21:29] And if I can do it any one can do it
[02:21:33] That's America
[02:21:35] Echo Charles any questions. Yeah. You have what shark tank? Yes, sir is that your jam that's not my jam
[02:21:40] You know it's funny. I actually tell Sarah's I hate that they're stealing these companies from these people you know that the valuations are given these guys
[02:21:47] It's interesting
[02:21:50] So if you ever have an idea don't go on shark tank you come to see
[02:21:54] Better deal baby. Okay, all right. Oh you also said
[02:21:58] Kind of impassing you mentioned
[02:22:00] Lifestyle business you said it was a lifestyle business and you kind of what does that mean lifestyle business?
[02:22:05] So there there are a lot of owners out there that don't reinvest in their business. They they take money out of the business to
[02:22:12] You know by a house or second house or boat or you know that we call those lifestyle businesses and
[02:22:20] Their nice lifestyle business, but there's no long-term viability and health for those things
[02:22:24] They though they'll die as soon as that better owner dies
[02:22:26] So what like kind of almost like they have the business just so they can make money for their lifestyle
[02:22:32] That's right. Yeah, it's supposed to reinvesting every penny they have to make it grow into build it
[02:22:38] Etc. You see a lot of the looks but a lot of small businesses are lifestyle business and there's nothing wrong with that
[02:22:44] But when you can when we compete with lifestyle businesses you can imagine
[02:22:48] It's so ugly
[02:22:50] I want to competition
[02:22:52] Cool good to see you right on well Matt thanks coming on thanks for sharing some of these lessons
[02:22:57] And most important thanks for what you're doing today. I mean you can probably hear when I talk about this and I talk about all the time and I live it to
[02:23:05] the fact that you're
[02:23:07] building a company that is
[02:23:11] Well, it first of all it's providing a much needed service right? I mean like you said it's the American dream to have a house
[02:23:16] It's not the American dream to have a house with a basement full of water
[02:23:20] But but you not only provide that service, but
[02:23:22] You know you give ownership to your workforce and they get a skill and they get a career
[02:23:29] It's just powerful and that that helps
[02:23:33] That is that is what drives the American economy. That's what does it and
[02:23:38] That attitude
[02:23:39] That attitude that work ethic that's the American culture
[02:23:44] And and look the American culture might get might get pushed around a little bit it might get it might get some layers
[02:23:50] Put on it by various things that are going on in the world, but the American culture of
[02:23:57] Hard work the culture of
[02:23:59] Entrepreneurship and the culture that
[02:24:02] Superseeds all those
[02:24:04] Is the culture of taking care of your family taking care of your friends taking care of your community taking care of your people
[02:24:11] That's the American way and that's how you win and thank you for being an example of making that happen
[02:24:17] Thank you sir and with that Mr. Matt Malone has left the building so
[02:24:26] That will turn off yes, sir
[02:24:29] Did you get a little bit of the
[02:24:32] Beyond the shark tank on that because for you I think I think I think in your mind business is kind of like shark tank
[02:24:38] Actually you're kind of right. No, I think like legit yeah
[02:24:45] Yeah, well
[02:24:47] Like anything you know you have kind of what's in front of your face and that goes through like your life I guess when you kind of go through it
[02:24:53] And then every once in all you get reminded that there's this bigger game being played or
[02:24:58] Even a smaller game being played that plays a bigger role in your life, you know like that kind of stuff
[02:25:03] And this is like one of those reminders where he's over here talking about like he early on in the pot in this episode
[02:25:11] He was he just mentioned like derivative. So I didn't want to do that like kind of like it was just as foregone everyone knows that kind of a tone
[02:25:18] And a lot of these terms that he was using it was like wait and that was gonna interrupt
[02:25:23] But you know in the spirit of keeping the flow I didn't
[02:25:26] Um, where I wanted to interrupt me like wait, what's that wait, what's that wait? What's that because it would tell like clear story for us
[02:25:33] We're not in that big game
[02:25:35] to understand a little bit more about how it works. Yeah, well, the I guess
[02:25:41] The trying to get like you said trying to get to the kind of ultimate position where we got to where he is now
[02:25:47] I think was cool and I think that's and plus maybe I was just like going yeah
[02:25:52] Dribbrips, yeah, it's clear that you are probably not the best person to filter some of that stuff out or to
[02:26:01] inquire about it, but what's interesting to
[02:26:05] Well the the each one like each one of those things is stone world, right and what are you calling it next level?
[02:26:12] What are you saying big game? No play there's different games man, and then there's games
[02:26:16] Within the games, but then more importantly to remember you're in there's a game that's bigger than the game you're in and that's what's always happening
[02:26:25] Yeah, and you got to be careful in life that you don't get trapped in the game and
[02:26:31] Think that you won that game because there's a bigger game going on. Yes, you need to watch out for it now. Listen, here's the thing
[02:26:39] You could never
[02:26:41] Very few people are just gonna win every game like all the games the big game, right?
[02:26:46] What do you got to do? What's the winning the biggest game? Is it Elon Musk and he won the like the big game?
[02:26:52] Could be but also there's some people that don't care about any of that
[02:26:55] So it's important remember that do you care about the game that someone else is playing
[02:26:59] This is comes back this whole discussion we had one time
[02:27:03] Where I was I compared basketball and soccer right like someone's playing soccer the best soccer playing the world
[02:27:09] In their whole season they score four goals and they're the best at that game
[02:27:13] Me while someone plays basketball they score four goals in the first minute and in the season they play they score
[02:27:20] thousand points
[02:27:21] So what game are you playing and you got to be careful because you might be
[02:27:26] I've known plenty of people in my day and I'm sure you have two that worked really really really hard and
[02:27:32] One the game that they were playing and we're winning that game
[02:27:37] But it but it was limited
[02:27:39] You know they weren't really barely even getting on the board so you want to make sure that you're playing a game that you can win
[02:27:46] And then you also at a certain point you say look I don't really care about that next level game. Yeah. I don't I don't care about that
[02:27:51] I don't need to win the game above my game and the game above that game. Right. I don't care about those games because
[02:28:01] Basically the games we're talking about right now are all business financial earning games
[02:28:06] Because you know you got a game that you're playing to win with your family to win with your legacy to pass on good
[02:28:13] behaviors to your children to help your community to build good relationships like there's that too
[02:28:19] Your health your health
[02:28:21] Right, so we're gonna ban in those things so I think it's important to and I think I think Matt spent quite a bit of time doing that
[02:28:28] Playing a game and not necessarily winning a game but saying I don't even want to play that game. Yeah. Oh
[02:28:32] I'm trying this other game. I don't like that game. Oh, I'm trying another game. I don't really like that game and finally figured out. Oh
[02:28:38] Here's a game that I like I actually want to be an operator that makes stuff happen. I want to interact with people
[02:28:44] I mean
[02:28:45] Look there's some people that don't want to interact with other humans
[02:28:48] Yeah leadership is something they don't even want to do
[02:28:53] They just want to be in charge of like their computer screen. Yeah, that's cool
[02:28:57] So yeah, and the money part of things is a real easy one to kind of gravitate to as far as your attention and like maybe a lot of time
[02:29:06] Your value system because like like obviously guys like Matt where that's they're interested in that part of things
[02:29:13] You know the fine he wanted to be an investment banker and you know that's not like a rare thing
[02:29:18] And nothing necessarily but bro. I'll tell you right now
[02:29:21] I never even
[02:29:22] Consider thinking about
[02:29:24] Even that whole industry and I'm sure a lot of people like that too
[02:29:28] So like hey, what do you want to be when you grow up investment bankers not part of that thing?
[02:29:32] But investment banking is in or
[02:29:35] What's involved in investment banking is a very specific type of thing that people like Matt are great like that's part of their interests like man
[02:29:43] It has to do with something like that
[02:29:46] So when you see the results of a successful
[02:29:50] Guy who's into that kind of stuff. It's easy to be like oh, yeah
[02:29:54] He's winning a bigger quote unquote bigger game than me
[02:29:58] But I feel like the bigger game that I'm talking about is the game that's like
[02:30:03] Like if you were to structure your life then
[02:30:07] What do you say what do you do this scale that's when you guys use right business guys
[02:30:12] Scale it it's like you can make this right but to scale it means you're above
[02:30:16] Maybe 10 people making that same thing 10 times the amount right and you scale it a lot of times
[02:30:22] That scale game
[02:30:25] That's the part we all miss but investment banking is kind of like it's part of it anyway
[02:30:31] Even what I understand which is not that much
[02:30:34] Part of what would drive maybe interest in that industry is the same stuff that's gonna draw your interest towards things like being able to scale xy
[02:30:44] Thing because the interest isn't on the xy's thing. It's about the scaling part of it. You see me. Yeah
[02:30:49] Yeah, it's good stuff. It is interesting. Well, what I was gonna say is that
[02:30:57] the also
[02:30:59] Like for instance
[02:31:01] at
[02:31:02] Origin right we're making jeans we could make more money making jeans in China
[02:31:07] Right so we could we could allegedly win a certain part of the game
[02:31:11] But we're playing by other rules and we're not winning the game that we want to win
[02:31:15] We want to win the game bring it back. I'm American media factory
[02:31:18] So you got it
[02:31:20] It's not it's quite so cut and dry and the other thing I was thinking about when you just talk about raw money
[02:31:25] What are people gonna use that money for a lot if you think about like an end-game?
[02:31:30] Is you're gonna use that money to buy time? Oh, now I don't have to work anymore. I can do whatever I want
[02:31:35] Well, how much how much time did you invest in a getting the money so that you could buy time?
[02:31:39] So you got to run that game
[02:31:40] Get around those numbers in your head because if you're investing all your time into into make money
[02:31:45] So that you can buy your time back you might be losing you know
[02:31:50] Unless you figure out a way to scale it which is what you were just talking about unless you figured out a way to scale it
[02:31:54] You're gonna have a hard time doing that so that's why it's important in my opinion to be doing something that you really love doing
[02:32:01] You know, I never even ever thought I was working in
[02:32:05] While I was in the Navy probably let me rephrase up
[02:32:09] I was very seldom considering what I was doing work
[02:32:12] Just didn't seem like work ever
[02:32:14] Like just didn't seem like work so that's a really good life. You know, I had I didn't need money to buy time because I had all the time in the world
[02:32:22] Because I was doing exactly what I wanted to all the time. Yeah, that makes sense. So
[02:32:28] So that's good stuff. All right
[02:32:30] Hey, if you want to
[02:32:33] Invest in your health
[02:32:35] Get yourself some stuff some healthy things to put your body. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, you noticed you know what we offered Matt
[02:32:43] some
[02:32:45] Go yeah, what flavor he chose. Yeah, I am a clean energy champion. Oh, that's just muted. That's right. Factually. Yeah, you know
[02:32:54] It's a good deal either way. We did notice Matt chose it and you know, it is what it is
[02:32:58] But good news either way whatever flavor you pick
[02:33:01] Pull me got some clean energy healthy energy
[02:33:04] Which is not a common thing. You know it's all about uncommon. Yeah, it's true. These other
[02:33:08] No drinks they they the funny thing is there's no there's like there's no truth in advertising
[02:33:17] They don't say they don't say hey where
[02:33:20] We're not that good for you
[02:33:23] But we'll give you like an hour and a half of like hype
[02:33:28] You don't say yeah
[02:33:29] They can throw they can throw they can actually use the term clean energy. Yeah, and you could they could be feeding you arsenic
[02:33:35] Yeah, they don't care because because there's water in it and water's clean. Yeah, water's clean. Yeah, so that's
[02:33:40] That's it. I did
[02:33:42] From my island
[02:33:44] The so there's there's a different student line and then not telling the truth you know
[02:33:49] There's like half truth and all this stuff but at the end of the day comes from like deception
[02:33:53] Right if like are you being deceptive so my wife you said and I suppose this one me and my wife my girlfriend at the time
[02:34:00] Start a dating should be like oh she's like hey, you're lying. I'm like no, no, I'm not lying about this or whatever and she'll be like no
[02:34:07] You're being misleading and I was like
[02:34:10] Can't they maybe out of it because you know, you know like you know when you're hiding something on purpose
[02:34:15] Or you're adding something making it look bigger than it is on purpose like you're misleading same as lying
[02:34:21] But so these energy drink companies do
[02:34:24] Yeah, so don't fall for that don't miss leading lies
[02:34:27] I suppose I see him and I just want to tell the truth about what they're actually doing
[02:34:33] But we we are telling the truth about ours. It's good for you. It's good for you
[02:34:38] It's good for you. Get yourself some of that joccal fuel.com
[02:34:42] Get it at wall wall get that vitamin shop
[02:34:44] We're rolling out a bunch of other stores cool
[02:34:48] Continuable growth which is pretty cool. We're scaling scaling
[02:34:52] All day for good reason too because you do want to stay capable and healthy of course health is a game
[02:34:59] That we're playing it's a game that's the one game you can't afford to lose you cannot afford to lose
[02:35:03] Yeah, but here's the thing a lot of people are losing that game and we don't even realize it why because like I you said
[02:35:08] You might he might some people focus no wrong game
[02:35:10] So a lot of times this health thing
[02:35:12] Gotta focus on no
[02:35:14] Stand the winner circle. So yeah, we got the stuff for your joints some protein
[02:35:18] Vitamin deep for your immunity all kinds of stuff. Yeah, or junior say calm. So you get it
[02:35:23] No, that's where you get your jigsie stuff actually
[02:35:26] Oh joccal field.com. That's my battery. Yeah, look at you. Joccalfuel.com
[02:35:30] That's where you can get the supplementation stuff
[02:35:32] Origin us is we can get the American made from beginning to end American made clothing
[02:35:39] They got some good hoodies on there by the way. I just use the heavy
[02:35:44] Big-pick. Oh
[02:35:46] How was the snow held up you was right after storm so oh good how pal pal pal
[02:35:55] Anyway speaking of pal pal
[02:35:57] Joccal store.com
[02:36:00] Joccal store.com is where you can get your discipline equals freedom stuff
[02:36:03] You gear your apparel from there if you want to represent while you're on this path playing the game of health and capability and strength and
[02:36:10] Endurance by the way
[02:36:12] Feel like we don't talk about interances much as we could get on the mats man. You know the mats that endurance shows up real quick
[02:36:18] It'll help you
[02:36:22] You get that that that that that freaking hardcore guard passing game that's a fatiguing game like you got to be you got to be
[02:36:29] Metabolically conditioned in the modern day
[02:36:32] To pass guard. Yes, it's a new game. Well
[02:36:36] I agree with you not 100% hundred ten percent because you in the guard passing game if they're active
[02:36:41] We'll call it an active and or aggressive guard passing game. You can be the giver or the receiver if you're defending that same game
[02:36:48] Right you better have your condition
[02:36:50] Same good stuff to think about you are correct you are correct. But yes if you're you know you want to represent
[02:36:57] Apparel wise when you're on this path joccal store.com
[02:36:59] So you can get this stuff short lock is a subscription. It's called shirt locker
[02:37:03] It's a subscription situation when you get a new shirt
[02:37:07] Different design creative design every month
[02:37:09] What they are creative. You created some of the business
[02:37:15] Somebody said we have one that says everybody must get stoned
[02:37:19] Yeah
[02:37:20] Which is based on the stoner 63 machine gun that the seal's carried it
[02:37:24] No, and I saw Twitter
[02:37:27] Fuck
[02:37:29] Someone said I can't wear this because it's you know has to do with smoking marijuana
[02:37:33] You know I was like no and doesn't have anything to do here
[02:37:36] Well, I guess it does have a there's a domain
[02:37:39] So here that's not how we mean it
[02:37:42] Here's how the shirt means it in my view tell me what you think about this so and I told someone this too
[02:37:52] I forget who it will but okay, so you got everyone must get stoned right wasn't there like a marijuana issue
[02:37:57] In Vietnam there was like there was guys smoking whatever. Okay, so it's on there
[02:38:01] Yeah, so there's like when you say there there's a dual message there, right? So it depends on who you are everyone must get stoned
[02:38:09] Like edit surface values like oh, what everyone must get so everyone must smoke weed
[02:38:14] Or from a warrior perspective or whatever
[02:38:18] Everyone must get stoned you seem saying yeah, so it's like a dual meeting. That's what I'm saying. It's so legit
[02:38:23] I think it was a guy
[02:38:24] Wasn't down for the cost kind of basically we see it as and just to repeat the story
[02:38:29] I heard from a Vietnam guy that he got his weapon from the armory
[02:38:34] After someone else had used his weapon a nom he would like took a whatever year off went back to get his weapon and
[02:38:40] He got went to get his stone or 63 and on the buttstock someone had written everybody must get stoned and if that's not badass
[02:38:48] Go on yet
[02:38:49] Come on there. Yeah, that's the deal. So if you want to get those kind of cool shirts with layers
[02:38:55] Yep, go there. Sure. Look jocquistore. Oh
[02:38:59] Also subscribe if you have you want to leave a review if you in the mood to leave a review there is that option leave a review
[02:39:06] You ever see a review I said review the other day said
[02:39:09] We came for jocquay stay for echo
[02:39:11] Okay, you think they'd be a nicer you think that's true
[02:39:17] Say they both have their probably equal probability to be on a city
[02:39:21] Either way, hey, I'll take it. Thank you for saying that for feeling that really a jocquay underground calm coming
[02:39:29] Check that out $8.18 a month. We got a little platform that in case things go sideways
[02:39:34] We'll still be here if you can't afford it then email assistance at jocquay underground calm
[02:39:40] We got a YouTube channel
[02:39:42] Jocquist podcast. We got origin USA check out that YouTube channel psychological warfare got all that stuff going on flip side canvas to code a mile
[02:39:49] By the way, he's I don't even know when this podcast is coming up, but he's an in Ukraine right now
[02:39:54] Just just be in Dakota
[02:39:57] God bless him
[02:39:58] If you want to support his company while he's over in Ukraine like saving people by the way
[02:40:03] He saves people in America too. He's a firefighter and he's a metal of honor recipient in case you weren't aware of that
[02:40:08] He's got a company here in America
[02:40:10] It's called flipside canvas dot calm going check that out by some cool stuff to hang on your wall
[02:40:14] I've written a bunch of books you can read those we got asked to long front you heard me talk about it today
[02:40:18] That's you know Matt and groundworks is in one case study of what we do with businesses
[02:40:26] How we help them align their leadership and help them learn how to lead and help them develop leaders
[02:40:31] So if you want to check that out go to echelon front dot calm and and part of what we're doing there is
[02:40:37] An online training platform. You know like you heard Matt today say he's got 4200 employees
[02:40:43] 4200 workers
[02:40:45] 4200 owners
[02:40:47] This is not the biggest company we work with we work with companies that have
[02:40:52] 30,000 50,000 150,000 employees globally
[02:40:56] So originally we created a online training platform for that
[02:41:00] We decided to open it up to everyone
[02:41:03] It's got courses you can take it's got live interactions go to extreme ownership dot calm if you want to check that out
[02:41:10] And if you want to help service members
[02:41:12] Active and retired their families gold star families you want to you want to get involved in an awesome charity organization
[02:41:19] Check out Mark Lee's mom mom and Lee she's got an awesome organization really truly helps veterans and their families go to
[02:41:27] America's mighty warriors dot org if you want to help out and also check out horses
[02:41:35] And also check out heroes and horses dot calm
[02:41:38] So Mike I think just up there he's out in the bush right now by the way
[02:41:45] Going on whatever 78 day expedition on horseback
[02:41:50] Cold water bass in the morning resetton peoples brains bro and their hearts how you like that and their souls
[02:41:57] Mike you can use that if you want you can use my verbi which that I just just made up
[02:42:02] As far as I can I go we are we are both on social media
[02:42:09] We're there we're not getting sucked up in the algorithm though so watch yourself if you're there
[02:42:13] I was at a quick trial so I'm at chocolate willing thanks a map alone for coming here today sharing his lessons and thanks all the workers out there across the land
[02:42:23] The tradesmen
[02:42:24] The skilled laborers the men and women that toil every day to build to construct to fabricate to repair to
[02:42:31] Man you fact sure we know we know
[02:42:36] That that is the strength of America
[02:42:39] That's what builds America so thank you to the American worker
[02:42:45] Thank you for what you're do and thanks to all the military personnel out there who worked their craft
[02:42:52] To keep America free so that the workers can work and also thanks for the work done by our police and law enforcement firefighters
[02:42:58] Paramedics EMT's dispatchers correction officers border patrol secret service and all first responders
[02:43:06] Who protect us here at home and to everyone else out there there is opportunity
[02:43:14] But it's not gonna knock on your door
[02:43:17] In fact, it's not really even gonna let you know what's around like the lights are off
[02:43:22] That's what's happening. It's not easy to find you got to work for it
[02:43:26] You kind of kick in some doors and there's gonna be struggles along the way and you'll have ups and downs
[02:43:33] But if you get started and you can start in any position
[02:43:38] This is America start anywhere
[02:43:41] But if you're willing to work hard and you don't give up you can find that opportunity and you can turn that opportunity
[02:43:49] Into a reality
[02:43:51] So go out there and get after it and until next time
[02:43:57] Zeko and Jako out