Jocko Podcast 327: Attack on The USS Liberty w/ Phil Tourney, Larry Bowen, Joe Meadors.

2022-04-04T05:11:54Z

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AI summary of episode

wow well more people are going to hear here this version then that version how you like that go and back to the account now the torpedo boats began firing it us with machine guns shooting anything that moved including firefighters and stretcher bears one of the guys I was pulling to safety got hit right above the knee with a 50 caliber slot causing explosion of blood and bone I took off my shirt and tied the sleeves around the top of his leg as tight as I could to stop the bleeding we got him down to the mess decks and untied the turnic it for just a few seconds so that they wouldn't be forced to amputate the leg later then we retided before leaving the area a median I went back up to the main deck and saw that that the gunners on the torpedo boats were now shooting at the ship on the waterline aiming in the direction of the boilers and from merely 35 yards away clearly they were trying now to blow up the ship by hitting the boilers and causing a huge explosion that their last torpedo had failed to accomplish throughout the course the torpedo boat attacked they circled the ship like voltiers at as close as a hundred feet to suggest that they might have missed the huge lettering on both sides of the bow in ten foot high letters as well as the USS Liberty lettering on the stern seems impossible and you're sitting there seeing these guys just lay into you with 50 caliber machine guns from a hundred yards away yes sir and nothing to fight back with the are willing and which and the pleasure of taking another breath is what kept us all going and pretty fortunate to be here jacco i saw one of the torpedo boats a lot closer than a hundred yards one of the miles on the port wing of bridges I spent a lot of time out there making sure the flag was flying and I saw one of the torpedo boats sail very slowly at our port support side I didn't see him fire anything I know that Phil had two or three books at Hevero the one that you referenced earlier about Ron and Cookele Phil's also a contributor to that book and Ernest Gallo is another member of the crew that helped you know with that how long were you in the Navy for 21 years you get a purple heart for being wounded on I did and what would you tell people when some other you know you're out you're you're just whites for whatever reason and you know 1975 there's guys were in Vietnam sure some you know guys there's some it's corpsmen some medics some pilots some aviators might have got purple hearts some some guys from the sea wolves or something but there's not a lot of navy guys running around in 1975 1980 1985 that had purple hearts what did you say to somebody when they said hey where did you get that purple heart from I was on the U.S. a celebrity in 1967 when we were attacked and you know I got it for Shrept and wounds and that was about it you know and i if you want to hear more from us then you can go on the social media of course surge in general warning watch out for the aglorism because it's getting ready grab you by the trope and try and drag you in there echoes at aquatrol's i am a joccal willing and thanks once again to joe larry and fill for your service in sacrifice and thanks to all the sailors of the us s liberty especially those 34 brave souls who sacrificed their lives for their shipmates and thanks to all the rest of the sailors out there from the world's finest navy that are on the high seas 365 days a year protecting the cause of freedom around the world and thanks to the rest of our military that fights on the land and in the air to protect our way of life and also to our police and law enforcement fire fighters paramedics entese dispatchers correction officers board patrol secret service all first responders who protect us here at home thank you for what you do and everyone else you never know what you're going to run into you never know what's going to happen you never know who is going to attack you and these guys talked about it today they were prepared they were ready they were vigilant so when something unfolds you are prepared like they were to behave like they did the brave sailors of the us s liberty and don't ever give up and until next time the zeco and jocco out and I mean there was information that I knew should have been in there that had to deal with communications that that didn't reflect those communications and the thing that they were trying to report more than anything else was a lack of communications that occurred resulting from this hundred mile um free zone I guess that Israel had declared no no ship should enter into that hundred miles zone off the coast of Sinai and apparently our naval atoshae and um and Israel had told them that we don't have any navy ships there six fleet confirmed that they didn't have any any naval ships there and that's you know a problem with us traveling by ourselves that they they they didn't recognize that we were over there or they conveniently forgot that we were there but there was communications that were supposed to have been sent us telling us to move back off the coast and we never received those communications and so that's more about what this report from NSA said and it didn't talk about the other intercepts that had you know the aircraft talking to ground control we're talking about the target talking about seeing the American flag and you know I don't know why that didn't come out until later but we kept doing a freedom movement information act requests trying to get a lot of this documentation back out in the public so the truth could be told so Joe what did you do after the incident so place how much longer were you in the navy for did you stay and what did you do I got out you know one of the things that it said is what you said earlier Phil which is hey if the is Rayleigh's could get the Americans into this war in a big way you know that can really help us out against these Arabs is what is Rayleigh was thinking and these kind of things happen what is what do you guys do with the LBA now what's what's the purpose how can people help well one of the things that we're still trying to do is get recognition for our 34th fall in shipmates we've tried over the years to get Congress to conduct a fallen impartial investigation and it's fallen on deaf ears right now we've got a resolution going forward to the ask for June 8th to be declared as a US celebrity remembered stay it should be a fairly simple thing for Congress to do I mean we have national hot dog day in national you know ice cream day let's have a national US as Liberty remembered stay and not just one year but every year and you know if nothing else you're you're honoring the 34 men that gave the ultimate sacrifice back on June 8th 1967 when when you talk about some of the awards that were received most every one of us that received any kind of an award purple heart or prom star you know the Congressional Medal of Honor it was all done in private there were no big ceremonies like you would normally expect for you know someone with that just came off the most decorated ship in the United States Navy since World War II and you know 95% of the American public is not even aware but you know Jacob he said something very interesting about the American Legion which fires me up because about four or five years ago Len Hall of the and Ernest Gallo our former president we're at the convention in the American Legion and they're wanted to get a booth and things like this and we hung out together in better times playing card strength if you beers and joking together we just locked eyes and communicated silently that we might not make it through this one I went off to find more CO2 canisters and I ran back towards the bridge falling in the process which caused the CO2 canister to fly out of my hands and crashed down the deck with a bang as soon as I got up I saw that I saw what it caused me to slip and fall it was blood on the deck that hadn't been there moments before when I left the bridge it was my friend Francis Brown's blood who had caught a machine gun bullet or a piece of shrapnel in the back of his head and his blood was everywhere his eyes were closed but his face was swelled up like a balloon there was something that no human being should ever have to see especially when it's a good friend of yours in a little while after going below deck and seeing more scenes like that I looked like a slaughterhouse with a cacophony of wailing and desperation in the background the wounded men kept begging me to help them and it was frustrating for me not to be able to do that because I had to move them from the passageways into the mess hall so they could get the medical attention they needed finally the jet attack was over and I went back to the top deck and then saw Torbito boats coming at us at a high rate of speed and now I saw who it was the star of David Flags flying above these boats was quite a surprise and at first I assumed they were coming to our rescue the delusion only lasted a minute because I then saw the splash of several torpedoes that they dropped into the water as they headed towards us did you know they were torpedoes and you know we we had no way to defend ourselves and you guys mentioned this already but just to just to reiterate there was some heroic activity to place for people for some of your shipmates to get onto the deck of the ship and string up a long wire antenna and send out an SOS message and that actually made it to to six feet which was you know like I talked earlier about big groups of ships and you guys traveled solo but normally the US Navy travels and big groups of ships so that was the six fleet is one of these big groups of ships had an aircraft carrier and whatnot and they actually received the SOS that you guys were on travel under attack and and talk me through about what you know about how that how the response the rescue response got shut down very good question we didn't learn quite a while exactly why it went forward but I didn't realize that I had the strap and the wounds in my thigh because you're adrenaline is pumping so so fast that and you're taking care of others so I had blood from trying to take care of John Spicer and you know working with some of the other wounded that my my dongries were just kind of blood soaked and I didn't find out until I don't know I guess a day or two later when one of the doctors from one of the other ships was up in the dispensary and they were you know evaluating us to determine whether or not we'd sustained any injuries and of course I had a drop trial when he said how did you get those you know scars on your leg there and strap no wounds I said I don't know I was to bend there in the torpedo attack but as far as working through the night we did whatever we could to try and you know keep keep everyone calm it wasn't chaotic and it's covered with gray paint which might have saved his life since it became a giant bandage so that's the that's kind of the situation that took place where you that's what you received the bronze star for was that action going out into into the into the fire to try and recover wounded guys you continue here after all the wounded had been recovered I went to the log room the location of damage control central I saw and some John D scout there my superior officer who is burning documents the standard procedure in US military after briefing him and discussing the situation for a few minutes he ordered me to return to the deck to further assess the damages and put out any fires that were still burning on the way back I saw many wounded men bloody and moaning begging me for help but as I had no medical training there was not much I could do to help relieve their pain I got to the bridge and saw a commander at Nagel was badly wounded in the leg but still in command rocket and cannon holes were everywhere and burning napalm was dripping through the holes into the bridge compartment there were CO2 canisters that were not effective in fighting that kind of fire and I requested a team with water hoses but that didn't work either since the fire hoses had been shot up just like everything else I told the captain that I would return with some better equipment to fight the fires and he calmly replied do what you can sailor he was always very professional and stoic even under these incredibly violence surreal circumstances so you have napalm dripping through the holes onto the bridge I mean that's just crazy to think about it is crazy it is crazy it's a war crime dropping it on dropping it on us they wouldn't they they couldn't shoot us up so they tried to burn us up and the fire is just basically burn out because we couldn't put them out we didn't have the equipment COT CO2 was all gone everything was been had been utilized and so I go from a singleman school to a ship that doesn't need a signalman to a ship that has a very very intense signalman but after that I went I got out Halloween on 69 and same question to you I mean were you thinking to yourself what's one of the reasons you got out because you're thinking hey this crazy thing just happened to me I lost so many of my friends and now I'm told I can never talk about it again did that impact the way you thought about your career interesting thing about that um on this Elvenia there was a uh career counselor and every time you were getting short you would call you in this office and give you a long-speel about why you should trip over and stay in the navy so he didn't know he didn't know me personally and they didn't know my history so he called me into his office sat down really had one job and that was to know what was flying what the ship was flying and you know 100% that that that that the American flag was clearly visible and that you actually ended up raising an even bigger American flag that's right you know I might add to that uh jacco the uh is really war room had his plotted on their map as American and friendly they said they changed the watch and inadvertently forgot we were there and took us off their war table I mean come on man you know when you when you change watches you you inform everybody of what's going on and they just took it all the way and that's uh still it or it takes me and then he labored assault troops it was obvious to me and most people that their intention was to sink the ship and kill old any survivors speaking of that the the he-low-born assault troops here we go shortly after the boats left the scene from far off in the distance but closing in fast came the unmistaker will want want want want sound of a very large troop carrying helicopter approaching the ship on the starboard side now the one MC system blared all ships personnel prepared to rebel repel borders so now after all other weapons were brought to bear on our ship and failed the sinker we were about to be bordered by Marines armed with sub machine guns after the only machine guns on the ship had been destroyed in the wave of first attacks even if we could get to them in time the only other guns we had on the ship were small arms pistols and a couple of shot guns that we might use to set up a last line of defense a median eye tried to open the locker with our fire axes since our master at arms who is the only one with a key was not to be found even after beating that lock nearly pieces we could not break it the commandos on board the helicopter above appeared to be ready to repel on to our ship ready for close quarters combat with a bunch of defenses for drag-led sailors worn out from two hours of sustained attacks it would have been a turkey shoot I think we better just go get them that's just that was the whole is a land grab for Israel and in a power grab for LBGA to keep these war machine going in Vietnam and it's not like you guys got helped quickly you say this it's 18 hours a hell to call it a long night is a big understatement none of us slept for two reasons first we were afraid of the dark not like little kids but rather because we knew that criminals prefer the cover of darkness when doing their dirty work those responsible for the previous days attack might return to the scene of the crime to finish what they had failed to do earlier second we didn't know if the ship would even stay together although we were not sure of the exact size the whole in the starboard side we knew that it was big very big it was a lot of work that wouldn't be needed just to keep the ship afloat and moving away from the dangerous zone and with all the men killed or wounded only a skeleton crew remained to do this those of us who did survive were glad of that of course and then they just sail off and continue to attack how much time had passed between the initial strafing runs from the aircraft to the torpedo attack and is this an hour has gone by two hours or approximately two hours some people save more some people probably say less but to do that type of damage and in a few moments like these really said it just took a little while they only said they had only three aircraft that attacked us and there was probably twenty aircraft so to attack us to do that kind of damaging that's for the time it's just when you think back three airplanes can't carry the munitions would take to put over eight hundred fifty cannon rocket holes in the ship drop napalmons and just it doesn't make sense so as all this is going on you say all of the sounds of these machine guns and the sheer hell taking place might have been the reason why there was some controversy of whether commander mechanical ordered all crew prepared to abandon ship

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocopodcast number 327 with me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:07] The president of the United States takes pleasure in presenting the bronze star medal
[00:00:11] to Petty Officer 3rd class, Philip Francis Torney, United States Navy, for service as set
[00:00:17] forth in the following citation.
[00:00:20] For heroic achievements in connection with the unprovoked and unexpected armed attack on
[00:00:25] USS Liberty, AGTR5 in the eastern Mediterranean on 8 June 1967.
[00:00:35] During the early afternoon hours, USS Liberty, while engaged in peaceful operations
[00:00:40] in international waters, was attacked without any warning by jet fighter aircraft and
[00:00:46] three motor torpedo boats.
[00:00:51] Liberty was subjected to intense incendiary, machine gun and rocket fire and was placed
[00:00:56] in extreme jeopardy by a torpedo hit below the waterline on the starboard side in the
[00:01:02] vicinity of the research compartment.
[00:01:06] Severe structural damage and extensive personnel casualties were incurred.
[00:01:12] Petty Officer Terny, serving as assistant on scene leader in the forward repair party, first
[00:01:18] assisted in organizing the evacuation of wounded personnel from the exposed weather decks.
[00:01:24] With complete disregard for his own personal safety, he continued to furiously expose himself
[00:01:31] to intense rocket and machine gun fire to move a fire fighting team to the bridge.
[00:01:39] He then returned to the forward weather decks to ensure that no more wounded were still
[00:01:42] exposed before going below to maintain damage control conditions of compartments below
[00:01:48] the waterline.
[00:01:50] He remained below dextering the torpedo attack and immediately afterward assisted and directed
[00:01:56] emergency repairs to minimize further flooding and damage.
[00:02:02] His aggressiveness and coolness under fire was exceptionally inspirational leadership
[00:02:07] in an hour of awesome peril.
[00:02:12] Petty Officer Terny's initiative and courageous actions were in keeping with the highest traditions
[00:02:18] of the United States Naval Service.
[00:02:23] Petty Officer Terny is authorized to wear the combat V distinguishing device.
[00:02:34] And that citation reflects an obviously intense and dire situation for a US naval ship
[00:02:40] at the USS Liberty during a vicious and determined attack.
[00:02:48] What the citation does not mention is the state or the enemy force that is conducting the
[00:02:55] attack.
[00:02:58] That is because the attack was conducted by our ally by the state of Israel.
[00:03:06] And this incident, the attack on the USS Liberty has been wrought with controversy as to
[00:03:11] how and why it happened.
[00:03:16] But there can be no controversy or no doubt about the courage and bravery of the sailors
[00:03:23] on the ship that day who suffered significant casualties.
[00:03:30] Who fought to save their shipmates and their ship and his honor to have three of those sailors
[00:03:41] with us here to share their experiences and their lessons learned.
[00:03:47] Phil Terny, Larry Bowen and Joe Meeters, gentlemen.
[00:03:54] Thank you for joining us.
[00:03:55] It's an honor to have you all out here.
[00:03:56] I appreciate you traveling and getting out here.
[00:03:59] Thank you, sir.
[00:04:00] That's about as good as it gets from an American heroys yourself, a sailor, seal,
[00:04:09] bent through it, understands what battles all about.
[00:04:14] When you have nothing to fight back with, but don't know you're willing your guts to
[00:04:20] stay alive is inspirational for all the crew.
[00:04:26] It was all hands on deck regrettably.
[00:04:30] Me and Varship made his lost their lives or severely wounded.
[00:04:34] They had to be evacuated to their stay.
[00:04:36] And we didn't get any help from our government.
[00:04:39] During the attack, after the attack, 18 hours later, we say a cruiser, a destroyer, Maddox,
[00:04:48] not the Maddox, but the Maddy.
[00:04:50] Maddy.
[00:04:51] Maddy.
[00:04:52] He came alongside in the US as Davis, and that was it.
[00:04:56] And those guys came aboard our ship on whale boats and they were actually crying to see
[00:05:05] the devastation of what they did to us.
[00:05:08] Chuck Hill was over 850 cannon rocket holes in our ship.
[00:05:12] Over 5,000 armoured piercing bullets in our ship.
[00:05:16] They dropped napong on the bridge of the ship trying to burn us to pieces.
[00:05:21] They shot our life rafts off.
[00:05:24] We only had three left.
[00:05:25] They shot them out of the water to ensure no more survivors.
[00:05:30] They sent troop carrying helicopters to finish his off.
[00:05:35] For some reason, they didn't do it.
[00:05:37] I guess they got the words.
[00:05:38] It had to gig's up.
[00:05:41] And so was this call of a mistaken identity.
[00:05:43] And that's what everybody says.
[00:05:46] It was a mistaken, oh, for so sorry.
[00:05:48] We say no to that.
[00:05:50] And it was a deliberate, primitive attack, pre-meditated attack by the people of Johnson administration.
[00:06:00] And the escrow, I believe it was named Ambassador.
[00:06:06] I mean the premier of President of Israel at that time, a small cabal of people did so much
[00:06:14] damage not only to us, and our dead shipmates, but to America.
[00:06:18] This is just on our problem.
[00:06:20] This is America's problem.
[00:06:21] In Americans like you, this is good gentleman over here and your whole staff are granted
[00:06:26] to light.
[00:06:27] God bless you for that.
[00:06:28] It means the world to me and I know it does my shipmates.
[00:06:31] It's very respectful and very honorable, you sir.
[00:06:34] Thank you.
[00:06:36] Man, it's just the story is harrowing to hear.
[00:06:41] And one of the things I want to go over today is the account that you've written of what
[00:06:46] you went through.
[00:06:48] Before we get to that, just to get a little background on all of you, just if maybe you
[00:06:53] could introduce yourselves where you came from, maybe a quick note on how you ended up in the
[00:06:58] Navy.
[00:06:59] I mean this is 1967, how you ended up in the Navy and really what your job was when you were
[00:07:04] on the liberty.
[00:07:05] Let's start with you, Joe.
[00:07:07] Okay.
[00:07:08] Well, Joe.
[00:07:09] No Larry.
[00:07:10] Oh, sorry.
[00:07:11] Let's start with you, Larry.
[00:07:12] I'm Larry Bowen.
[00:07:13] I'm the current Liberty Veterans Association president.
[00:07:17] In 1965, during the height of the Vietnam War, I got drafted.
[00:07:26] And I didn't want to be boots on the ground over from Vietnam, so I went and talked
[00:07:31] with a Navy recruiter.
[00:07:33] And he says, go take the Army physical and then we'll put you in the Navy.
[00:07:38] I was 19 years old.
[00:07:40] I didn't know if I could trust him or not.
[00:07:42] But I went, I took the physical I passed and by the end of March, I was active duty
[00:07:50] Navy going to Great Lakes Naval Training Center for Boot Camp.
[00:07:56] I became a cryptologic technician or communications technician.
[00:08:04] Shortly thereafter, Boot Camp went to A-Sgood on Empensicola, Florida.
[00:08:10] And I got my first assignment to Burmerhaven-Germany.
[00:08:15] And I thought this was a great tour.
[00:08:17] I just, you know, can't beat this.
[00:08:21] And four months later, I get orders to the USS Liberty.
[00:08:26] So this was my third cruise that I was on when we were reassigned to the Mediterranean
[00:08:35] for the Six Day War.
[00:08:38] And the mission of the Liberty, it's an interesting mission.
[00:08:42] It was really just collection of radio traffic from all over, whoever you were near.
[00:08:50] Right.
[00:08:51] And am I correct in saying that there was literally no weapons on the Liberty?
[00:08:55] Do they have any weapons at all?
[00:08:57] We had four, 50 caliber machine guns, two forward, two aft.
[00:09:02] And then we had small arms, which fell in a wreck of money, we're trying to get into
[00:09:13] when we thought we were going to have to repel borders.
[00:09:16] But the gunlock was secure and they were using, they didn't have a key.
[00:09:26] So they were trying to break the lock with a sledgehammer.
[00:09:30] So they could get in and get small arms out in case we, you know, caseels helicopters
[00:09:36] with a troops down board tried to board us.
[00:09:41] And like Phil said, the, for whatever reason, they stopped.
[00:09:49] And you know, as whether or not we had any casualties and whether or not they could help us.
[00:09:56] And a skipper told him basically, we don't need your help.
[00:10:03] Not in those terms, but you know, I made it very clear that we didn't want them.
[00:10:12] Yeah.
[00:10:13] Phil, how, how'd you end up in the Navy?
[00:10:15] That's a good question.
[00:10:17] I wasn't in school.
[00:10:20] I dropped out of school in the seventh grade.
[00:10:23] And what's the work for my dad?
[00:10:26] Where are you, where'd you go up?
[00:10:28] I grew up in Denver, Colorado.
[00:10:29] Now I live on the Western Slovakia, Colorado.
[00:10:31] I got a 48-corranged there.
[00:10:33] Me and my bride and Lisa said, no, was there.
[00:10:36] Wonderful lady.
[00:10:38] Love her a lot.
[00:10:41] We've raised our kids, but getting back to the Navy, I went to Boom Camp.
[00:10:45] And I was the most thrilled person you could ever imagine.
[00:10:50] Because I was 17 years old, I just turned 17 and joined and luckily I passed the test.
[00:10:56] But I mean, really, I was not very smart, but quite smart.
[00:11:03] And all of a sudden I get awarded to be an educational patty officer.
[00:11:11] I said, how did I get this?
[00:11:16] And my parents took it good.
[00:11:21] We got along and I'll be darned if I wasn't both outstanding recruit of my troop.
[00:11:28] And that was some of my parents.
[00:11:30] I'll never forget that.
[00:11:32] A bunch of good guys and there's old as I am now.
[00:11:36] 40.
[00:11:37] What year was that?
[00:11:39] What year did you join?
[00:11:40] 64.
[00:11:41] 1964.
[00:11:42] OK.
[00:11:43] And what was your job?
[00:11:46] My first job was being a boilerman.
[00:11:50] And machinist mate.
[00:11:51] I was on different ships.
[00:11:53] So you guys just wanted to hear, you guys just hallowed, hallowed, hallowed, that I've one of
[00:11:57] the seas with to be at nom, we have a little ammo to constellation other ships.
[00:12:03] And we would also pick up bodies that were flown to one part of the other.
[00:12:13] We take them back to seaweed bankers.
[00:12:14] We had coolers for the ammo stuff.
[00:12:17] And that was basically our deal for a couple of years.
[00:12:20] And then I got transferred to the library.
[00:12:21] I said, oh, God, this has got to be great.
[00:12:24] What a good ship.
[00:12:25] A beautiful ship.
[00:12:26] Good people.
[00:12:28] Enjoyable, good skippers.
[00:12:31] I can't say enough about the US.
[00:12:33] It's literally in your right.
[00:12:35] It was like a giant lobster out in the sea.
[00:12:40] Nobody could miss the identify that ship.
[00:12:42] So that's pretty much my naval career up to the attack.
[00:12:48] Then I got transferred to the US as mad as Taufer Gondick.
[00:12:52] Talking.
[00:12:53] So it's a bit of interesting ride.
[00:12:57] Joe, how'd you end up in the Navy?
[00:13:00] In 1966 I was in my second year of college.
[00:13:04] Didn't know what I wanted to do in my life.
[00:13:07] I didn't want ready for graduation or anything like that.
[00:13:14] I didn't want to be in the army and go to Vietnam, live in a foxhole for my four years.
[00:13:22] So I decided to join the Navy instead.
[00:13:26] So I went and joined.
[00:13:27] And then I went home and told my mom what I did.
[00:13:31] She was about to head a fit.
[00:13:33] But in hindsight she told me that it was a probably the best idea that I had the best thing
[00:13:39] I ever did.
[00:13:41] Went to boot camp in Great Lakes and I got to sign to the drill team, which was fortunate
[00:13:48] for me.
[00:13:49] It was number nine, twelve.
[00:13:50] Fortunate for me and the rest of the guys because I don't think I did more than 100
[00:13:54] pushups during my time in boot camp.
[00:14:00] And what was your rate?
[00:14:01] Well, how was the signal then?
[00:14:03] I went from boot camp to a class a signalman school in Newport, Rhode Island and then graduated
[00:14:10] from that and went to the Liberty.
[00:14:12] And I never could figure out why since the Liberty steamed independently in my rate, I had
[00:14:19] flashing light and similar four between ships.
[00:14:22] What was I doing there?
[00:14:23] Or you're going to talk to your brother.
[00:14:25] That's an interesting thing about the Liberty because of its mission.
[00:14:27] It would just go out by itself.
[00:14:30] The normal Navy ships they go out in a group, in a carrier battle group or a amphibious
[00:14:36] ready group.
[00:14:37] There's multiple ships, but you guys on the liberty you would just kind of sail around by
[00:14:41] yourselves.
[00:14:42] Exactly.
[00:14:43] On that's because of the mission.
[00:14:45] With if we were in a group, their communications would interfere with our ability to collect
[00:14:53] communications that we were trying to collect.
[00:14:56] So it was by design that we would go independently, typically off the west coast of Africa.
[00:15:05] In fact, our first port on that last cruise was we pulled in an abogent and it was in
[00:15:13] May of 1967 when we got orders to go to Rotospeen to pick up supplies and some additional
[00:15:21] people.
[00:15:22] So we were going to the Eastern Med, couldn't tell our folks or anything.
[00:15:26] They said, hey, this is all hush hush.
[00:15:32] At that time, I don't know that any of us knew what was going on in the Middle East.
[00:15:38] But yeah, that's a good point.
[00:15:39] I know when I first got in the Navy and I did a couple deployments as a seal on a ship.
[00:15:45] I mean, no, it was no internet.
[00:15:47] So you really were isolated in terms of what was going on in the world.
[00:15:52] So what was going on in the world at that time was that the Israeli six day war was happening.
[00:16:03] This is a war that took place from the fifth to the June to the tenth to June.
[00:16:07] It was Israeli versus a bunch of Arab countries, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia,
[00:16:17] the total elements of Lebanon in there and the Israel had initiated.
[00:16:24] And there was a bunch of things that led up to this.
[00:16:25] But Israel had initiated the war with air strikes on Egyptian and Syrian airfields.
[00:16:33] They'd pretty much wiped out the Egyptian air force.
[00:16:37] On the six of June there was ground fighting that was taking place as the Israeli military
[00:16:42] pushed into the Sinai Peninsula.
[00:16:47] On the seventh of June they pushed even further into the Sinai.
[00:16:51] The Israeli Navy was probing the Egyptian Navy.
[00:16:58] There was Israeli missile boats, missile ships that were out there that engaged Egyptian
[00:17:04] shore batteries.
[00:17:05] So this is even though it's a short war, there's a lot happening in a pretty small area,
[00:17:10] as well.
[00:17:12] The Jordanians attacked and sent a lot of artillery into Jerusalem.
[00:17:21] By the seventh though, I mean Israeli, and this was just a couple days into it, Israel had
[00:17:26] gotten control over much of the West Bank.
[00:17:31] Eight to June, these things are continuing to happen.
[00:17:34] So I just wanted to kind of give some background as to what was happening when this event
[00:17:40] took place for you guys.
[00:17:43] So I was just talking about June 8th.
[00:17:47] This is when these attacks were just continuing.
[00:17:49] This is in the midst of this war.
[00:17:51] And even though, like I said, it's short, but there's a lot of fighting going on.
[00:17:55] There's 20,000 air troops were killed in this short period of time.
[00:17:58] Israel lost under a thousand, but that's still significant.
[00:18:02] So in the midst of all of that, this attack on your ship happens and Phil, you've got
[00:18:10] some personal accounts that you've written out, and these are just to me a great way
[00:18:16] of tracing how this went down from your perspective, Phil, and then Larry and Joe, you
[00:18:24] guys can give some input as well.
[00:18:25] But I just want to read some of these accounts because I always think when I write things
[00:18:30] down, they come across a little bit clearer to solidify my memories.
[00:18:33] So here's what you said about the first day and how this whole thing kicked off, Phil.
[00:18:39] You say this, my job on the morning of June 8th was sound insecurity.
[00:18:43] I would make the rounds to ensure that everything on my checklist was in good condition
[00:18:46] that the ship was watertight and ship-shaped as I reported hourly to the bridge.
[00:18:51] I did not see the first overflights by Israeli aircraft, but the other guys told me about
[00:18:56] them. We assumed that they were our friends and knowing that they were merely confirming
[00:19:01] that we were an American ship caused our moods to further light.
[00:19:06] After lunch, a general quarters drill was conducted right after that, I had to accompany
[00:19:10] another engineer to the starboard gun mount on the forecast on the folksalt that I just
[00:19:16] say that's right.
[00:19:17] You just busted a damn navy guy, totally messin' that one up.
[00:19:22] To fix the phone located there, David Skolack, my saying that right?
[00:19:26] Yes, David Skolack was the other sailor I went with and after I explained to him what
[00:19:30] needed to be done, his response was no problem, attorney.
[00:19:33] I'll get working on her.
[00:19:35] This was about five minutes before the attack at 2 o'clock PM.
[00:19:39] As we stood there, we discussed the fact that this would be the worst possible place to
[00:19:43] be in the event of an attack on the ship because the gun tub and the guy manning it would
[00:19:48] be taken out as the first priority.
[00:19:52] I said goodbye to Skolack and the gunner and made my way down the ladder to the main deck
[00:19:57] and my workstation in the ship fitters shop.
[00:20:01] As I opened the hatch to go inside, I heard an order over the PA to test the motor whale
[00:20:06] boat.
[00:20:07] Just moments later, I heard a huge explosion right next to the hatch.
[00:20:11] I had just closed.
[00:20:12] My immediate thought was that the test had gone wrong and the motor whale boat had blown
[00:20:17] up.
[00:20:18] That's how this thing kicks off.
[00:20:24] It was a normal day where you guys were able to track the wars happening where you
[00:20:30] guys could you hear explosions, could you guys see fighting taking place, were you seeing
[00:20:34] tracers in the sky at night and that kind of thing?
[00:20:37] We saw smoke from the L.I.R. area where they were attacking the Egyptian forces but we didn't
[00:20:47] hear anything and no tracers.
[00:20:50] Did you guys feel safe and secure out there?
[00:20:54] I did.
[00:20:55] Yeah, really.
[00:20:56] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:20:57] I mean, who was going to attack a flag to American ship?
[00:21:02] We saw a fan base was going to get us to be the Arabs.
[00:21:06] Besides we were told that we had an air cover in 30 minutes if we were ever attacked.
[00:21:13] Did you remember anything else that you remember about the day before it kicked off?
[00:21:19] That morning I was setting a position down in radio research one.
[00:21:23] I was an intercept operator and I had picked up some traffic that was actually part of the
[00:21:33] ground forces communicating back on Tel Aviv and my buddy Bob Eisenberg who was working
[00:21:43] in the processing and reporting center, we went to the child together at lunchtime and he told
[00:21:51] me that they were planning a big attack and it was a prolonged kind of thing where they had
[00:22:01] three different prongs to this attack, the jet strafing, the napalm and the torpedo boats.
[00:22:12] What Bob didn't tell me was who the target was, apparently they didn't spell that out in
[00:22:20] their communications.
[00:22:25] That was before we had our practice general quarters drill.
[00:22:29] I don't know if maybe Commander Lewis had sent word up to the skipper that, hey, there's
[00:22:38] things they're going to intensify here.
[00:22:40] Or maybe we ought to do a drill, but there were certainly indications and accounts that
[00:22:48] something big was going to happen.
[00:22:51] Unfortunately, we didn't know that it was us that they were targeting.
[00:22:57] Because during the morning these overflights that occurred and they started early in the
[00:23:02] morning I thought we had at least four or five overflights by Israelia aircraft.
[00:23:09] We would send our photo recon team up to the bridge to take photographs and we knew,
[00:23:16] we could see the star David on the aircraft.
[00:23:21] In my mind I felt pretty secure that our ally was going to cover us and not be the ones
[00:23:30] that was going to do the attack.
[00:23:35] Did there anything else on that?
[00:23:40] There was a signal when I was up on the top deck that was an open deck.
[00:23:45] Steel plies, sightings around the deck.
[00:23:51] I could see all of the reconnaissance aircraft come in circle this in the morning.
[00:24:00] I served quartermaster watches which I didn't like but what's it got to do.
[00:24:07] I was done in the pilot house and Larry and Lloyd Painter was the officer of the deck.
[00:24:14] He was a junior officer of the deck I believe and he was watching the radar surface
[00:24:19] search radar.
[00:24:21] He spotted the aircraft coming up or a starward side.
[00:24:26] Very low to the deck because we didn't have any air search.
[00:24:29] It was just surface search so they got slowly or quickly up our starward side turned immediately
[00:24:35] left and then left again when they got straight ahead of us and then started the attack.
[00:24:41] The Israelis claim that they conducted a series of low and slow identification runs
[00:24:46] and I don't think anybody would believe that a screaming jet would nobody could see it
[00:24:53] nobody could hear it.
[00:24:54] Those are the identification runs so they've lied about it since the outset.
[00:25:01] All right.
[00:25:08] Let's pick up Phil with your account after you hear this explosion.
[00:25:11] You say not realizing that a rocket just exploded directly outside the hatch I grabbed
[00:25:15] the handle and opened it once more to go out and investigate the trouble.
[00:25:18] I just barely put one foot outside when I felt myself grabbed by the shirt collar and
[00:25:22] violently jerked back inside.
[00:25:24] I turned and saw it was first class petty officer Dale Nies who ordered me to get back
[00:25:30] we're under attack.
[00:25:32] The general quarters alarm was then sounded and I made my way to my duty station which
[00:25:37] was which as one deck which was one deck above the mess decks.
[00:25:42] After going down the ladder I slipped and fell and found myself under trampling feet
[00:25:46] of sailors as they made their way to their stations.
[00:25:49] I rolled over to my right side to get out of the way and got on my feet and joined the stampede
[00:25:52] to get to my station as well.
[00:25:54] I got into battle dress and got my gear ready.
[00:25:57] Chief Thompson was the on scene leader as soon as I arrived he said he'd been hit and I
[00:26:02] was leaving and he was leaving to get medical care.
[00:26:05] Since I was assistant on scene leader this man I was in charge.
[00:26:10] It's all yours now, attorney.
[00:26:12] He said as he made his way down the passage.
[00:26:13] I responded back.
[00:26:14] Hey, thanks a lot, Chief.
[00:26:16] Although I was not that thrilled about this ad hoc promotion.
[00:26:21] So just for people that haven't been in the Navy tell us about general quarters what's
[00:26:25] going on.
[00:26:26] Right.
[00:26:27] General quarters is something we did aboard that ship constantly.
[00:26:34] I got aboard delivery when it just commissioned and it made one cruise and I stayed on it
[00:26:41] for the rest of them till the last one.
[00:26:44] Every captain I served on there and there was only two.
[00:26:49] McGonadol was very strict about damage control, cleanliness.
[00:26:55] He evaluated everything you did and I think that really really set us up to be at least
[00:27:04] to try to be able to save our ship and save our shipmates.
[00:27:09] It's a training we received with the good graces of God.
[00:27:17] We were able to keep the ship afloat and it just wasn't us.
[00:27:22] It was a higher power that saved us.
[00:27:25] Nobody else came to help us but it's a good lord.
[00:27:29] I believe that now and I always believed it done.
[00:27:32] Interesting Jocco.
[00:27:33] I thought when the attack started and we didn't get any help.
[00:27:39] I thought well okay this is World War III and these guys got better things to do than
[00:27:43] screw with us.
[00:27:45] The American government because they're doing their own thing.
[00:27:48] That's what I really thought because they wouldn't leave us out there alone that we were
[00:27:51] promised help and I'll be darn yeah.
[00:27:56] No help came.
[00:27:57] We were out there alone by ourselves.
[00:28:00] No armament.
[00:28:01] Our ship is burning out people all over the deck on a sleeping diet.
[00:28:07] Trying to get into racks or whatever they could just to stay alive.
[00:28:12] It was I can't say it was real chaos.
[00:28:16] It's an organized chaos just do your job and I don't do anything else but do your job.
[00:28:22] What was your job during General Quarter's?
[00:28:24] Damage control.
[00:28:25] So did you take over for you or the damage control senior guy at this point?
[00:28:30] That report, yes.
[00:28:31] Was it for that specific part of the ship or was it for the part of the ship?
[00:28:37] The other damage control was James Smith and he was fighting fires and doing all I could.
[00:28:46] In fact, that's when a Spicer got killed.
[00:28:49] He was a postal clerk.
[00:28:50] He was manning a hose.
[00:28:51] That was his General Quarter's drill and station to fight fires and Smitty just got through the hatch
[00:29:01] and then Spicer was hit.
[00:29:03] I might also had Spitty and I made third class together.
[00:29:07] E4s and he stayed in for 27 years and he came out of Lieutenant Command.
[00:29:13] He was on a lot of different ships.
[00:29:15] Spitty is a great guy.
[00:29:16] He's a great hero.
[00:29:17] All these guys are heroes.
[00:29:18] They're my alter ego.
[00:29:22] I respect these guys because they help save everybody's lives.
[00:29:26] Including mine without these people I wouldn't be alive today.
[00:29:30] Joe, what did you have to do during General Quarter's?
[00:29:32] General Quarter's as a signal man, my job was look out and look for ships to communicate
[00:29:38] with, haha.
[00:29:41] And so when the attack started, Mom and I didn't raise no fools and that signal bridge
[00:29:48] was totally open.
[00:29:50] So I stayed down in the pilot house where that was my work station basically in the pilot
[00:29:57] house.
[00:29:58] And occasionally I would look at the port wing of the bridge and look up and make sure the
[00:30:03] flag was flying.
[00:30:05] Did that a couple times and then I noticed it wasn't flying so Frank Brown and I Frank
[00:30:10] was killed while he was on the helm.
[00:30:13] Frank Brown and I took holiday colors and ended up on number four port high and I was
[00:30:18] up flying during the complete torpedo attack.
[00:30:21] And holiday colors is an even bigger flag.
[00:30:24] That's the normal biggest flag we have.
[00:30:26] And then by 13, that cracked you up.
[00:30:29] That's something like that.
[00:30:30] Yeah, 7 by 13 feet.
[00:30:34] What about you Larry, where did you go once General Quarter's kicked off?
[00:30:38] They, like I said, I had a day watch that day.
[00:30:41] So I was sounding radio research one.
[00:30:44] When they sounded General Quarter's, I moved up one deck to another position doing the
[00:30:50] same job with a cadre of other CTs.
[00:30:55] And one of, like I was an IR brancher, there was a T brancher in there.
[00:31:00] We had an O brancher.
[00:31:01] What's the IR branch T branch O branch?
[00:31:04] Okay, IR brancher was a radio man.
[00:31:06] Okay.
[00:31:07] T brancher were the technical electronic skies.
[00:31:11] We had a maintenance sky in there.
[00:31:13] We also had an IR brancher which is a linguist.
[00:31:20] And so we took positions one deck above where the torpedo hit.
[00:31:28] And when the torpedo entered, we all got blown to the overhead.
[00:31:34] Got concussions.
[00:31:35] That's probably when I got my shrapnel wounds.
[00:31:39] And you know, it wasn't until right after that that we were able to go out and start opening
[00:31:46] up the hatch and get people out from the flooding compartment below.
[00:31:50] But when Phil mentioned that we had this, you know, 29 by 39 foot of hole in the starboard
[00:31:57] side, that killed 25 of our crew members that were down in the research spaces.
[00:32:06] And you know, one of our primary concerns was getting anyone who's still alive, getting
[00:32:14] them out of there and getting them up to safety.
[00:32:19] So as soon as we got the hatch open and people started coming out of the flooding compartment,
[00:32:25] I had a secondary job of going to the front door to our compartmented spaces and handing
[00:32:33] out life jackets to everybody so that if we had to abandon ship, at least everybody
[00:32:39] would have the life for a server.
[00:32:42] And that was before we ended up at the end after everybody got out of there or if we thought
[00:32:48] everybody had gotten out of there, we'd talked on the hatch and had to close up the area,
[00:32:54] secure it.
[00:33:02] Going back to this account from Phil once again, I started my new duties by determining whether
[00:33:09] all damage control personnel were accounted for but found that several were still missing
[00:33:13] which was not surprising considering the circumstances.
[00:33:16] The torrent of explosions I was hearing above and all around me had something to do with
[00:33:20] that and the holes that began appearing everywhere around us from the rocket and can
[00:33:25] and fire were further evidence of the intensity of the attack.
[00:33:30] In the middle of the this onslaught, I caught a piece of shrapnel for inches long in my
[00:33:34] right arm just above the elbow.
[00:33:37] I pulled it out through it on the deck and moved everyone in my department to the main
[00:33:40] deck. Once there I went to the same gun tub that I visited earlier but only saw a pile
[00:33:48] of human remains, blood, hunks of human flash body parts and fragments of bone.
[00:33:54] Rick a meady, am I saying that right?
[00:33:55] Rick a meady was there with me and we knew there was no life to be saved so we moved
[00:34:01] on.
[00:34:02] Throughout this time machine gun bullets and rocket fire were raining down on us as we
[00:34:07] crouched down behind various structures leaping from one position to another.
[00:34:19] So this is I mean there's just this entire ship that's just getting raked with machine gun
[00:34:24] fire with rockets with bullets. These bullets you're talking about they're penetrating
[00:34:31] the skin of the ship and just going through creating holes immediately.
[00:34:34] Arm rehearsing bullets here exactly right, Jockel and it was it was an attack that there was
[00:34:44] no mercy. There was no explanation in our mind because we didn't know really who was
[00:34:52] doing it. They were doing it with unmarked yet aircraft until we saw the torpedo boats and
[00:34:58] they had to star David. I said, oh god they're here to help us.
[00:35:01] Now a little bit of a yell you fired five torpedoes at us. Five torpedoes and only one
[00:35:08] of him hit and it happened to hit an eye beam where we didn't take the full explosion
[00:35:13] and it was more but not word deal but as Larry was saying 25 of America's most intelligent
[00:35:22] secret personnel in the world all of them top secret were instantly blown to bits and it's
[00:35:32] just something you can't describe to see your own ship makes like that and you know they're
[00:35:36] down there and once it got killed on deck we already put them in body bags and the ones
[00:35:43] that were at playing to life. Doc Heafer took care of them. I helped in operations all these
[00:35:51] other guys did what they could to help people it was a unified ship and it was two different
[00:35:57] cruise more dead ship to spokes and us. So we were the idiots and these were the smart guys
[00:36:04] and it's too bad. I mean that with all due respect, believe me all due respect but these guys
[00:36:10] here took the front of the dams and you know what, Jacko they didn't they didn't lose
[00:36:14] their duty stations they could have run out of there but they stayed there doing their duty
[00:36:21] and gave the lies for it and it was inspirational. You think about that and then the torpedo hit
[00:36:32] the torpedo gunboats would come up alongside of us in fire at our fire fighters, stretchers
[00:36:39] of bears, anybody on deck they're that close, shoot nests you know I mean out of us and it's
[00:36:47] uh it never occurred to me as I've said many times that how another country or human being could
[00:36:56] do that to their own supposedly friends and get by with it and then come back and say have you
[00:37:04] cash a lease have you any cash I just fly it all over the decks commander castle was in one
[00:37:10] of the it's a really helicopters he was as it had to at the shade there in Israel he dropped
[00:37:16] a card was his name on it and the brackets is have you casualties and I thought to myself
[00:37:22] my god how could this I mean the guys got to be able to see and it just everybody was
[00:37:30] astounded by that the captain told it get to helicopter tell the whole way for my ship get it out
[00:37:36] of your now and they did and we were all alone our country but promises help we expected help
[00:37:45] the jitter a craft for callback by Worsington Mac D'Ambara and LBGA and all his cronies
[00:37:51] uh including uh Admiral McCain used a commanding officer of European forces Europe and uh he was
[00:38:04] a huge part of the cover up the important bit choir only when seven days seven days it was wrapped up
[00:38:11] it was all pretty predetermined what the outcomes going to be mistaken identity they say they paid
[00:38:16] six million dollars or ten million or whatever the crew was compensated they compensated
[00:38:22] the most of the crew 200 bucks for their their clothes or maybe they're whatever but the average
[00:38:31] was 200 bucks the most seriously guy said got wounded days and served every penny they got
[00:38:36] but it wasn't nothing like they said it was and it was our money they were given right back to us
[00:38:41] so it is will never put out a dime you nine states paid for it all and they sold our ship for
[00:38:50] measly a couple hundred thousand dollars they cut up and raised their blades to make sure
[00:38:54] the evidence was gone but they didn't they didn't count on us for fifty five years telling you guys
[00:39:03] hey you're you're lying to the American public and you're not going to get by with it that's why
[00:39:07] we're here now America's two great two great of a country is it is service nation as you well know
[00:39:15] you you've been there you know what it's all about and you didn't get you know nobody turned
[00:39:22] the back on you because you had backup your own men and you know to the last man it's it's not
[00:39:29] over till it's over but it was like that way it was us it's not over till it's over we're so
[00:39:35] large the ship didn't roll over and the next day they got there and like I see
[00:39:42] massing the Davis is guys before the ship just in tears it was the hated see their own shipmates
[00:39:51] get torn apart like that it would no help it coming to find out you know I think the Navy
[00:39:58] did try to help us but the government the higher ups wouldn't wouldn't come to our aid and it's
[00:40:04] pretty sad this one pilot he's in this film on one by the way I wanted to give you this
[00:40:09] job I think you've seen this haven't you I have not seen that no okay this is a sacrificing liberty
[00:40:16] go to sacrifice and liberty dot com sacrifice and liberty dot com this is a four part series
[00:40:23] it's one of the best series has ever been done and truthful it's all about many survivors
[00:40:31] in this film telling the truth and it's my great honor and pleasure to give this to you
[00:40:36] and I hope you you watch it to spread the word jacco thank you thank you
[00:40:44] one one thing that should be noted about the 25 men killed by the torpedo is that they probably
[00:40:50] would have survived the attack if lb j hadn't recalled the aircraft that aircraft were already in
[00:40:56] in flight probably halfway to the liberty and would have driven off the the torpedo attack
[00:41:02] if they had been allowed to continue just to give people some more
[00:41:10] some more context as to what was actually happening for you guys your account fill as this is
[00:41:18] taking place you say this dead bodies were littered everywhere but there were also wounded bodies
[00:41:26] that we knew had to be found and saved if possible between valleys of bullets and rockets we
[00:41:30] darted out from safe cover grab the wounded men wanted a time drag them across the deck and assisted
[00:41:36] them down the hatch others from down below took them from there and moved them to the mess halls
[00:41:41] where they could be treated they took us at least 15 minutes to clear the decks of those who
[00:41:45] were still alive and could be saved about 25 men all together one of the worst cases I saw was
[00:41:52] time Tom Riley a boasts and mate who was on his back and bleeding from multiple wounds and it's covered
[00:41:57] with gray paint which might have saved his life since it became a giant bandage
[00:42:02] so that's the that's kind of the situation that took place where you that's what you
[00:42:09] received the bronze star for was that action going out into into the into the fire to try and recover
[00:42:15] wounded guys you continue here after all the wounded had been recovered I went to the log room
[00:42:22] the location of damage control central I saw and some John D scout there my superior officer
[00:42:27] who is burning documents the standard procedure in US military after briefing him and discussing
[00:42:32] the situation for a few minutes he ordered me to return to the deck to further assess the
[00:42:36] damages and put out any fires that were still burning on the way back I saw many wounded men
[00:42:41] bloody and moaning begging me for help but as I had no medical training there was not much
[00:42:46] I could do to help relieve their pain I got to the bridge and saw a commander at Nagel was badly
[00:42:54] wounded in the leg but still in command rocket and cannon holes were everywhere and burning
[00:43:01] napalm was dripping through the holes into the bridge compartment there were CO2 canisters that
[00:43:07] were not effective in fighting that kind of fire and I requested a team with water hoses but that
[00:43:12] didn't work either since the fire hoses had been shot up just like everything else I told the
[00:43:17] captain that I would return with some better equipment to fight the fires and he calmly replied
[00:43:22] do what you can sailor he was always very professional and stoic even under these incredibly
[00:43:29] violence surreal circumstances so you have napalm dripping through the holes onto the bridge I mean
[00:43:39] that's just crazy to think about it is crazy it is crazy it's a war crime
[00:43:50] dropping it on dropping it on us they wouldn't they they couldn't shoot us up so they tried to burn us
[00:43:59] up and the fire is just basically burn out because we couldn't put them out we didn't have the
[00:44:06] equipment COT CO2 was all gone everything was been had been utilized so it was we could have gotten
[00:44:14] water from the engine room they they could have pumped this water but there was nothing we could do
[00:44:21] with it because the hoses were 99% of our shot up they're all gone and you have that in interaction
[00:44:28] with the captain captain of the conical he sounds like a stoic guy one thing I remember about
[00:44:36] captain of the conical and I remember distinctly is when I was in the pilot house that's where I
[00:44:40] stayed during 99% of the attack and bullets were flying and and and napalm smoking all that stuff
[00:44:47] he was very calmly walking back and forth asking for a cup of coffee he says can I have a cup of coffee please
[00:44:56] she's
[00:45:00] um this is this is just chaos it's chaos put on our part it's organized chaos because we were
[00:45:10] so well trained we knew what we were supposed to do and we did it without thinking that's what
[00:45:16] all the training was for you say this on on my way to the bridge I looked at my good friend
[00:45:25] Francis Brown a third class quarter master who's helping steer the ship he was one of my best
[00:45:30] friends on the ship and we hung out together in better times playing card strength if you
[00:45:33] beers and joking together we just locked eyes and communicated silently that we might not make it
[00:45:38] through this one I went off to find more CO2 canisters and I ran back towards the bridge
[00:45:44] falling in the process which caused the CO2 canister to fly out of my hands and crashed down the
[00:45:48] deck with a bang as soon as I got up I saw that I saw what it caused me to slip and fall
[00:45:57] it was blood on the deck that hadn't been there moments before when I left the bridge it was my friend
[00:46:03] Francis Brown's blood who had caught a machine gun bullet or a piece of shrapnel in the back of his
[00:46:08] head and his blood was everywhere his eyes were closed but his face was swelled up like a balloon
[00:46:15] there was something that no human being should ever have to see especially when it's a good friend of yours
[00:46:19] in a little while after going below deck and seeing more scenes like that I looked like a slaughterhouse
[00:46:29] with a cacophony of wailing and desperation in the background the wounded men kept begging me
[00:46:34] to help them and it was frustrating for me not to be able to do that because I had to move
[00:46:38] them from the passageways into the mess hall so they could get the medical attention they needed
[00:46:43] finally the jet attack was over and I went back to the top deck and then saw Torbito boats coming
[00:46:50] at us at a high rate of speed and now I saw who it was the star of David Flags flying above
[00:46:57] these boats was quite a surprise and at first I assumed they were coming to our rescue
[00:47:02] the delusion only lasted a minute because I then saw the splash of several torpedoes
[00:47:08] that they dropped into the water as they headed towards us did you know they were torpedoes
[00:47:17] I mean did you identify that it seems like that's such a if I would have seen his railie boats
[00:47:22] I thought oh they're friendly oh something just went in the water what could that be did you
[00:47:25] actually know they were torpedoes at that point I did jog because I could see the
[00:47:31] trail in the water oh I saw the two go out I don't know where the other they're fired they're
[00:47:37] say anywhere from five to six torpedoes the general rule is fired but I mean five or six what
[00:47:42] difference is it make now but the two that went after I saw those I didn't I don't know where the
[00:47:49] other ones they could have been after or forward but I do know that one that one did hit and
[00:47:57] that's that's when the ship started listening badly to the star of its side and it just
[00:48:04] looked like this one first and the ship was picked up this is where so so before the torpedo hit
[00:48:10] you say the four torpedoes launched almost simultaneously they had had they hit us the
[00:48:14] liberty would have sunk immediately and the rest of the world history would have been written quite
[00:48:18] definitely those four had miraculously all missed the fifth one was fired and it was immediately
[00:48:22] obvious that it could not be out maneuvered that countdown began we were warned to prepare for a torpedo
[00:48:29] hit and we hunkered down in torpedo attack mode this meant bending your knees and elbows putting
[00:48:33] your hands against the bokeh and relaxing your neck and all of that is made nearly impossible as
[00:48:39] your thoughts of imminent death take over your mind so there was a time period where the fourth
[00:48:44] torpedo launched or sorry the fourth or fifth or whatever it was there's one that you could tell
[00:48:49] that it was going to hit you could you see you could see it in the water coming your way
[00:48:53] no I couldn't see it I was a low decks one deck below the main deck when they counted off on the
[00:48:59] one MC or something yes the captain said prepare for torpedo hit starvation side and
[00:49:08] then we knew there's just a matter of time and it hit and I was thinking to myself
[00:49:15] if this ship goes down I'm going to go down with it because I'm not going to get in the water
[00:49:19] and try to stay alive and let them guys shoot me in the water I'd better go down to ship and that
[00:49:26] was why I intentionally was going down but the ship just just we're actually stopped listing
[00:49:36] how what do you think and Larry as this as you're hearing the countdown comes starbird side
[00:49:42] that's got to be absolutely horrifying it was and we were internal to the ship so I mean we had no
[00:49:49] place to run we were I'd been sitting there our general quarters positions doing our job when you said
[00:49:57] prepare for torpedo attack and we got off our position got ourselves up against the bulkhead
[00:50:05] and squatted down and just brace yourself but you know you're not you never really prepared
[00:50:13] for something like that you just you don't know whether or not it's going to hit right where you're at
[00:50:21] or somewhere else we were above the water line but we were right against the bulkhead that separated
[00:50:30] our calm spaces and our P&R spaces which is the area that the torpedo came into so
[00:50:37] the explosion itself was definitely in for us and like I said we got blown to the overhead
[00:50:49] got concussions and probably the strap no wounds that we received after that
[00:50:56] but you immediately scrambled to your feet to try and help your fellowship mates that are down
[00:51:04] below we didn't know how badly the torpedo damaged that area but when we opened up the hatch we could
[00:51:12] tell you know I mean water was rising and people were scrambling to try and get up the ladder so
[00:51:18] that they could get out but yeah it was nerve-racking absolutely nerve-racking
[00:51:27] to say that we were scared to death I think would be an other statement. Joe when you heard
[00:51:36] brace for torpedo impact where were you what were you thinking. I was on the port wing of the bridge
[00:51:42] looking up make sure the flag was flying and when I heard that brace for torpedo attack I just hit the
[00:51:49] deck and you know not knowing what a torpedo would do I just felt it hit and I was lifted off the
[00:51:57] deck just to instant. Phil you saying the account when the explosion came it was literally
[00:52:07] deafening I'd been directly above the point where it hit only about eight feet away and the explosive
[00:52:13] percussion blew out my ear drums an injury that never completely heals we were all
[00:52:19] instantly airborne because the ship itself was picked up out of the water and then it came back
[00:52:24] down and bounced back up and down a few more times nearly capsizing in the process.
[00:52:31] The new moaning and groaning was not coming from the wounded men but was now coming from the wounded
[00:52:35] ship as the rush of sea water flooded into the ship. Since the ship itself did not blow up
[00:52:43] that meant the torpedo did not hit the engine room because that cold sea water hitting the
[00:52:47] boilers would have caused the ship to be cut in half and both halves would have gone to the
[00:52:51] bottom within minutes. And since Scott instructed me to determine where the torpedo had hit
[00:53:02] so with Rick a mediat my side we went down to the communications spaces where the spooks worked.
[00:53:08] I banged on the steel door with my fire axe since I did not have a code to open it and a voice told
[00:53:13] me that I was not authorized to enter the spaces. Rick and I told whoever was on the other side
[00:53:18] to go to hell saying that we were authorized to go wherever we had to to keep the ship afloat.
[00:53:24] I told the person on the other side that if they did not open the door I would beat it off
[00:53:27] its hinges with my axe. That's a crazy story so these guys freaking the ship got hit with a
[00:53:34] torpedo and you go open up this damn door and they go hey you're not authorized.
[00:53:39] Yeah it was crazy it was really crazy and when we got down there we went to the hatch that he
[00:53:49] closed to make sure everything was watertight and everything and I grabbed a hatch it had two
[00:53:56] different hatches of big one in and a small skull hatch. I opened it up very slowly and I could hear air
[00:54:02] coming out so I do not want to water and I'll be darn two or three other guys for out there
[00:54:08] bang and try to get out and they came out and what a beautiful sight to see in my life.
[00:54:17] Yeah you say suddenly the door opened I went to scuttle hatch to scuttle hatch and turned it
[00:54:21] then opened it very slowly I heard air escaping in our direction which meant that the
[00:54:24] compartment was not completely filled already but was filling. Just as I opened it I heard
[00:54:30] frantic banging on the other side so I turned the wheel as fast as I could and Sergeant Bruce
[00:54:34] Lockwood United States Marine Corps came scrambling out while pulling another sailor safety as well.
[00:54:40] A Median I grabbed the two and yanked them out of the hole and since Scott came up
[00:54:44] carrying a battle lantern and ordered me to give him my belt. I did as he asked and then he used it
[00:54:53] to lower the lantern into the water to look and check for any more signs of life. After a few moments
[00:54:59] we looked at each other and he asked what I thought. Sir I said I think we had better seal her up.
[00:55:17] So that's one of those moments where you know as a leader you got to make a the hardest decision
[00:55:25] that a person could have to make which is we don't know who else is down below we know that this
[00:55:31] this is filling up with water and when we seal this hatch we're sealing their fate but in order
[00:55:36] to save the ship that's the decision they have to make. Absolutely there's a very difficult decision
[00:55:43] but it was pretty instantaneous as soon as that decision was made I mean it was done but with
[00:55:51] wood preerodically go back and check listen but it was all over so Scott didn't have a chance
[00:56:00] it was lucky enough he got out and many more but it was just I mean to think about
[00:56:11] 25 your ship makes down there and I didn't know how many got killed at that time down there
[00:56:15] but to think that they went through that and what we went through a bug deck they didn't know
[00:56:24] what was going on below deck they didn't have a clue but like I said earlier these guys
[00:56:34] they didn't abandon their duty stations and what kind of courage is I take to save the
[00:56:40] low decks in the CT spaces on the starboard side and take what they were going to get and they
[00:56:48] did break brave one of them and that's why we're here there are dead ship mates they can't speak
[00:56:56] but we can speak for them and we've been doing that forever trying to get the truth out
[00:57:02] but our government once it's sealed the stay sealed is so disposable now again it's not
[00:57:08] it's not a guess the Jews it's not a guess Americans they just got fed lies and we're here to
[00:57:16] say hey who are I witnesses are you going to believe the Israeli version the board of
[00:57:21] inkware version which is a total BS are you going to believe I witness this like us now I think
[00:57:28] the American public is smart now especially with what's going on in the world now to see that
[00:57:32] how powerful a government can be if they want to silence you it's gotten so bad that the US
[00:57:41] Navy curator and the US Navy historian wrote the official government version of the attack and he
[00:57:49] based it entirely on the Israeli version wow well more people are going to hear here this version
[00:58:00] then that version how you like that go and back to the account now the torpedo boats began firing
[00:58:12] it us with machine guns shooting anything that moved including firefighters and stretcher bears
[00:58:18] one of the guys I was pulling to safety got hit right above the knee with a 50 caliber slot
[00:58:22] causing explosion of blood and bone I took off my shirt and tied the sleeves around the top of his leg
[00:58:27] as tight as I could to stop the bleeding we got him down to the mess decks and untied the
[00:58:31] turnic it for just a few seconds so that they wouldn't be forced to amputate the leg later
[00:58:35] then we retided before leaving the area a median I went back up to the main deck and saw
[00:58:40] that that the gunners on the torpedo boats were now shooting at the ship on the waterline
[00:58:45] aiming in the direction of the boilers and from merely 35 yards away clearly they were trying
[00:58:51] now to blow up the ship by hitting the boilers and causing a huge explosion that their last
[00:58:55] torpedo had failed to accomplish throughout the course the torpedo boat attacked they circled
[00:59:01] the ship like voltiers at as close as a hundred feet to suggest that they might have missed the
[00:59:06] huge lettering on both sides of the bow in ten foot high letters as well as the USS Liberty
[00:59:13] lettering on the stern seems impossible
[00:59:16] and you're sitting there seeing these guys just lay into you with 50 caliber machine guns
[00:59:27] from a hundred yards away yes sir and nothing to fight back with
[00:59:33] the are willing and which and the pleasure of taking another breath is what kept us all
[00:59:41] going and pretty fortunate to be here jacco i saw one of the torpedo boats a lot closer than
[00:59:50] a hundred yards one of the miles on the port wing of bridges I spent a lot of time out there
[00:59:55] making sure the flag was flying and I saw one of the torpedo boats sail very slowly at our
[01:00:01] port support side I didn't see him fire anything but I did notice the crew on the on the torpedo
[01:00:08] boat motion up to the signal bridge up to that area so they can see the flag and then they just
[01:00:15] sail off and continue to attack how much time had passed between the initial
[01:00:23] strafing runs from the aircraft to the torpedo attack and is this an hour has gone by two hours
[01:00:31] or approximately two hours some people save more some people probably say less
[01:00:35] but to do that type of damage and in a few moments like these really said it just took a
[01:00:44] little while they only said they had only three aircraft that attacked us and there was
[01:00:51] probably twenty aircraft so to attack us to do that kind of damaging that's for the time it's just
[01:00:57] when you think back three airplanes can't carry the munitions would take to put over eight hundred
[01:01:07] fifty cannon rocket holes in the ship drop napalmons and just it doesn't make sense
[01:01:15] so as all this is going on you say all of the sounds of these machine guns and the sheer
[01:01:21] hell taking place might have been the reason why there was some controversy of whether commander
[01:01:26] mechanical ordered all crew prepared to abandon ship but I heard that order probably because
[01:01:32] he felt that there was no possibility at that point we could save the ship
[01:01:42] he was probably not aware yet that nearly all the life boats were either destroyed by
[01:01:46] rockets gunfire napalm that there were only three left and I personally put one of them into the
[01:01:51] water as I watched all three and flate only to see them immediately shot up two sank but one of
[01:01:56] them was taking a board one of the boats as a trophy that capped the series of horrors I witnessed
[01:02:01] that day and told me as clearly as anything else that the purpose of the attack was not just
[01:02:06] to cripple the ship and take it out of commission so that it could not ease drop on communications
[01:02:10] but to actually sink our ship the active destroying our life boats was an unmistakable
[01:02:16] sign that they wanted no survivors left to tell anyone what had happened Lord Painter testified
[01:02:22] about that he he witnessed the machine gunning of the life rafts and he testified about that during
[01:02:27] the US Navy Court of Inquiry but if you get a copy of the Court of Inquiry his test of money has
[01:02:33] been removed not redacted removed from the record what do you think and when you hear a band
[01:02:41] and ship what are you thinking about Larry did you hear that call I did I was had a secondary
[01:02:49] duty station at that point our our fan tail phone talker had taken a rocket hit
[01:02:58] seriously wounded and he was down in the dispensary I was back on the fan tail as a phone
[01:03:05] talker I had a first-class petty officer Jeff Carpenter saw me getting some fresh air while
[01:03:14] puddle behind a a wench and he said bo and go back and be the phone talker and
[01:03:23] I saw the torpedo boats and when I heard this skipper say you know prepared to abandon ship
[01:03:31] I was I was sinking to myself you know I mean this this is it you know I mean there the right
[01:03:39] there are they I can shoot every one of us in the water you're trying to decide whether or not
[01:03:45] you you've got a chance of jumping overboard and and swimming for or going down with a ship like
[01:03:52] Phil talked about and of course I stood my ground and waited but that was about the same time that I saw
[01:04:01] under that and a fried aircraft approaching from the starboard side and it was helicopter
[01:04:10] and they were coming out at that point to find out whether or not we had any casualties whether
[01:04:16] or not they can provide any kind of assistance and so obviously we didn't have to have been
[01:04:25] in ship but you know you scared the death again you don't know you've got nowhere to run
[01:04:35] I mean we were like ducks in a barrel and I just opened fire and you know we we had no
[01:04:45] way to defend ourselves and you guys mentioned this already but just to just to reiterate
[01:04:54] there was some heroic activity to place for people for some of your shipmates to get
[01:05:00] onto the deck of the ship and string up a long wire antenna and send out an SOS message
[01:05:04] and that actually made it to to six feet which was you know like I talked earlier about big
[01:05:10] groups of ships and you guys traveled solo but normally the US Navy travels and big groups of ships so
[01:05:16] that was the six fleet is one of these big groups of ships had an aircraft carrier and whatnot
[01:05:21] and they actually received the SOS that you guys were on travel under attack and and talk me through
[01:05:28] about what you know about how that how the response the rescue response got shut down
[01:05:35] very good question we didn't learn quite a while exactly why it went forward but
[01:05:50] it just seemed like nobody really cared about us you know nobody
[01:06:00] sued in the present he's the one that got a visit this mess L.B.J. State L.B.J.
[01:06:07] and his minions but I never thought I never thought that the greatest fighting force in the
[01:06:15] world would leave this behind but they didn't they they wanted to come help us that's why
[01:06:21] Captain Tully got fired they took his command away because he immediately launched aircraft out was
[01:06:25] but twice and he was a captain Tully was someone on the US S.R. Toga they received the signal
[01:06:33] that you all were in trouble and he said okay we got sailors in trouble we got US Navy ship in
[01:06:39] trouble we're gonna go help him and he launches aircraft to go help yes before they even before they
[01:06:45] left the horizon the ship they would recall back thanks to L.B.J. and McNamber
[01:06:53] and I believe that we've set up from the Gidgo I don't know if it was a year before six months
[01:07:01] before whatever but the front let's say 15 was all about six five six the June 15th I mean
[01:07:12] yeah six of June on the 15th day the war response to start but they started early that's why
[01:07:18] they rushed this out of out of avidjan to get to the area just as fast as we could I mean
[01:07:25] that whole ship was still in this fast it was shaken we had they took the governor's off the
[01:07:31] engines and we were on our way flying but everybody was apprehensive we how we didn't even know
[01:07:39] from the radio signals I mean what was going on the Middle East but there was a war going on
[01:07:44] here we go and we look out and here we are and sailing up and down the coast like we usually
[01:07:49] did in Africa that was our only position in Africa was just sail up and down the coast and
[01:07:54] collect intelligence like everybody else does but when we got on scene and you could see as Joe
[01:08:02] Manchard before the black smoke coming up from from the attacking forces is rules going into
[01:08:11] the sign I it was I thought what Jesus man I'd hate to be over there I'd never knew it was
[01:08:19] coming to us and we were the intended target to sink in my view and I think a lot of other guys
[01:08:26] too is sink it I blame it on NASA and World War III they're broken out because the Russian
[01:08:34] suffers they're ready to ready to nuke Israel and they our government sent bombers to bomb
[01:08:47] the Arab states and never recalled within seconds of a catastrophe of a nuclear war
[01:08:55] yeah so I read that as well that we had launched nuclear weapon armed aircraft as a response to
[01:09:06] what was happening and then those got recalled as well yes sure exactly if you look at the
[01:09:14] this tactics used by the Israelis during the attack they started with unmarked aircraft or
[01:09:22] they jammed our radios on both US Navy tactical and international maritime distress frequencies
[01:09:28] they used unmarked aircraft they used the napal on the drive the ships crew down below
[01:09:34] decks brought interpeeta boats to with six torpedoes total luckily only one hit and then he
[01:09:40] labored assault troops it was obvious to me and most people that their intention was to sink the
[01:09:48] ship and kill old any survivors speaking of that the the he-low-born assault troops here we go
[01:09:58] shortly after the boats left the scene from far off in the distance but closing in fast came the
[01:10:04] unmistaker will want want want want sound of a very large troop carrying helicopter approaching the
[01:10:10] ship on the starboard side now the one MC system blared all ships personnel prepared to rebel
[01:10:17] repel borders so now after all other weapons were brought to bear on our ship and failed the
[01:10:24] sinker we were about to be bordered by Marines armed with sub machine guns after the only
[01:10:29] machine guns on the ship had been destroyed in the wave of first attacks even if we could get to
[01:10:35] them in time the only other guns we had on the ship were small arms pistols and a couple of
[01:10:39] shot guns that we might use to set up a last line of defense a median eye tried to open the
[01:10:45] locker with our fire axes since our master at arms who is the only one with a key was not to be found
[01:10:51] even after beating that lock nearly pieces we could not break it the commandos on board the helicopter
[01:11:00] above appeared to be ready to repel on to our ship ready for close quarters combat with a bunch of
[01:11:05] defenses for drag-led sailors worn out from two hours of sustained attacks it would have been a
[01:11:11] turkey shoot but we were not to about to go down without a fight for our lives had they proceeded they
[01:11:17] could have murdered the entire crew and then proceeded to use whatever explosives they had to
[01:11:21] guarantee the ship's destruction as the helicopter hovered overhead no more than 75 feet away
[01:11:28] I locked eyes with one of the Marines these are Israeli Marines who is sitting on the floor of the
[01:11:34] helicopter his legs were hanging out he had one foot on the skid below as he waited for an order
[01:11:39] to repel down to the ship's deck and finish us off as I stood on the deck of my bloody and
[01:11:45] battered ship I thought about everything that had happened over the course of that afternoon
[01:11:49] about my good friends Francis Brown and David Skolack and all the other men whose remains were
[01:11:55] strewn all over the ship the only two-eyed left was my middle finger and I used it to let him know
[01:12:02] what I thought of him in the rest of his team he simply gave me a smile and returned the gesture
[01:12:17] and then they they backed off right that's they they didn't land they they flew away
[01:12:23] they just took they just took off york on it was it was a victory for us our first victory of the whole
[01:12:35] mess that was they're not coming aboard because they could they could have easily in fact they
[01:12:40] could come back that night and got us and for some reason they didn't do it because they could have
[01:12:46] gotten by with it very easy all the kids of ship broke apart the Israeli said that Derib's did it
[01:12:52] and I think we better go get to your I think we better just go get them that's just that was the
[01:12:56] whole is a land grab for Israel and in a power grab for LBGA to keep these war machine going in
[01:13:04] Vietnam and it's not like you guys got helped quickly you say this it's 18 hours a hell
[01:13:15] to call it a long night is a big understatement none of us slept for two reasons first we
[01:13:20] were afraid of the dark not like little kids but rather because we knew that criminals
[01:13:23] prefer the cover of darkness when doing their dirty work those responsible for the previous
[01:13:27] days attack might return to the scene of the crime to finish what they had failed to do earlier
[01:13:35] second we didn't know if the ship would even stay together although we were not sure of the
[01:13:39] exact size the whole in the starboard side we knew that it was big very big it was a lot of work
[01:13:45] that wouldn't be needed just to keep the ship afloat and moving away from the dangerous zone
[01:13:50] and with all the men killed or wounded only a skeleton crew remained to do this
[01:13:56] those of us who did survive were glad of that of course but we all felt an enormous amount of
[01:14:02] survivors guilt why me why us we asked ourselves silently why had we been spared while others had not
[01:14:10] the dead included two of my good friends Francis Brown who shot in the head with a 50
[01:14:14] caliber machine gun round and his brain splattered all over the bridge and David Skolok who had
[01:14:20] who had been with just minutes before the attack he was also called the machine gun fire
[01:14:24] and had been blown to pieces too many to count I went to the mess deck to see if I could help with
[01:14:29] the severely wounded men as soon as I entered the sheer mass of human suffering moved me so much
[01:14:35] to emotion that my knees got weak but I dared not let it show as I went from broken man to
[01:14:42] broken man asking what I could do to help him feel more comfortable what was the total ship's crew
[01:14:49] 294 two says the crew is either wounded or dead what were you doing throughout the night
[01:14:58] Larry a little bit of the same to fill was just talking about one to the mess decks to
[01:15:04] help relieve the corpsman wheel ahead one ships officer you know the skip of the doctor
[01:15:15] is the doctor doctor key for and and then two corpsmen a second class and a third class per
[01:15:22] the officer so I'm an eagle scout I had some first aid background not that it was going to
[01:15:31] do much for some of the maimed bodies that were laying there in a mess decks but like Phil said
[01:15:37] you're there to try and comfort them and you know just just talk to him I was actually
[01:15:47] providing some kind of an ointment to their wounds you know the corpsman would give me something
[01:15:55] and say go you know wipe this wound here or whatever and so I was doing that
[01:16:05] didn't get any sleep that night I think the main reason was I wanted to stay awake in case something
[01:16:12] happened and that that bulkhead gave way because we would have had a band and ship as quickly as
[01:16:19] we could I still have my life fast son I wasn't going to give that up but I was I was not alone
[01:16:31] I mean there were a lot of us walking wounded I was I was wounded but I didn't realize that I had
[01:16:39] the strap and the wounds in my thigh because you're adrenaline is pumping so so fast that and you're
[01:16:48] taking care of others so I had blood from trying to take care of John Spicer and you know working
[01:16:57] with some of the other wounded that my my dongries were just kind of blood soaked and I didn't find
[01:17:04] out until I don't know I guess a day or two later when one of the doctors from one of the other
[01:17:10] ships was up in the dispensary and they were you know evaluating us to determine whether or not
[01:17:17] we'd sustained any injuries and of course I had a drop trial when he said how did you get those
[01:17:24] you know scars on your leg there and strap no wounds I said I don't know I was to bend
[01:17:32] there in the torpedo attack but as far as working through the night we did whatever we could to
[01:17:41] try and you know keep keep everyone calm it wasn't chaotic I mean they weren't there might have
[01:17:48] been some mone in here and there but it wasn't a lot of screaming and yelling or anything like
[01:17:54] that everybody realized hey there's still alive and we're gonna get out of this we kept thinking
[01:18:03] that we're gonna get some support but nothing ever came. What about you Joe what were you doing
[01:18:11] throughout that night throughout that night does the signal when I was up on the signal bridge
[01:18:15] looking for ships and if it's someone might be coming to help you either way and if I saw a
[01:18:25] light moving along in the sky I don't care how high I but was I always had my little all disflashing
[01:18:32] lamp and tried to signal it I knew it was futile but I had to try it because all the other
[01:18:38] signal lights are in this right. Going back to the account here from you Phil as I was doing this
[01:18:47] commander Philip Armstrong the ship's executive officer called my name I thought that his condition
[01:18:53] was critical but he was active in alert and seemingly in little pain he asked me for a cigarette
[01:18:58] so I lit one and put one in his mouth form he asked me many questions about the number of dead
[01:19:03] and wounded and the captain's condition while I heard the agony of the men all around us. I left him
[01:19:10] for a few minutes to try and find anything to help comfort the men and by the time I returned
[01:19:14] to check on commander Armstrong to my great shock and sadness I found that he had just died.
[01:19:21] Then I went to the wardrobe the mess hall for the officers there I saw another one of my friends
[01:19:27] Clary Bent Gary Blanchard and listed Seaman who's front showed no signs of wound but he was lying
[01:19:33] in a puddle of his own blood that seemed to be getting bigger by the second. He asked me to
[01:19:40] remove his socks because his feet were on fire I did as he asked then he asked if he was going to
[01:19:46] make it I could do no more than shake my head no. I always hated myself for not lying to him
[01:19:54] or at least ignoring the question and changing the subject but I did hope that my response allowed
[01:20:01] him the chance to make peace with his maker before the final curtain. These four men were among
[01:20:09] the nearly three dozen killed that day many of whom I'd never gotten a chance to know.
[01:20:16] I had met the ship's doctor I had met the ship's only doctor there in the wardrobe
[01:20:21] Dr. Richard Kifer I'm saying that right Kifer Kifer he came over and began to operate on Gary
[01:20:28] however quickly became clear that it was too late as soon as he opened him up he then
[01:20:33] had to put stitches in him to hold him together before Doc moved on to his other numerous
[01:20:39] patients all of whom desperately needed his attention. If anyone aboard that ship
[01:20:45] deserved the congressional metal varner it was Doc Kifer. As time went on we went about
[01:20:57] our regular duties now modified because of the precarious condition of the ship we were still
[01:21:01] unsure why we'd been attacked and by whom is Rayleigh flags have been seen on that least one boat
[01:21:07] and the helicopters but the thought that our friend and ally would do something so treacherous
[01:21:12] was unthinkable but nothing was normal anymore and that thought was the only possible explanation
[01:21:19] the brutality intensity and long duration of the attack and the obvious fact that they wanted to kill
[01:21:24] us all and sink the ship had become quite clear to all of us. Why else would they destroy our only
[01:21:32] means of escape by shooting up our lifeboats? As I began to resume my regular duty sounding
[01:21:40] security and damage control I realized that my heroic shipmates had saved the ship that day
[01:21:45] by remaining at their posts wall under the attack. I started making my usual rounds which now
[01:21:51] included both bulkheads encompassing the CT spaces where the torpedo had hit. The walls made from
[01:21:58] plate steel no more than an inch thick if that were sweaty from the cool ocean water on the other
[01:22:04] side. I could even hear the water sloshing around knowing that if the bulkheads ever gave way we would
[01:22:10] all be gongers. There were cracks in the steel walls caused by the enormous pressure being
[01:22:17] exerted against them by the Mediterranean Sea. They were ballooning outward from that pressure
[01:22:24] and I feared that the cracks would get larger and larger until they finally would give way.
[01:22:28] They looked like they were alive and breathing as they heaved in and out with the movement of
[01:22:34] the ship and the pressure of the water. I got shivers standing in such close proximity to them knowing
[01:22:40] that the only thing standing between me and my own death was a plate of steel that was ready to
[01:22:45] come crashing into the boiler room at any second. That thin steel wall was the only thing keeping
[01:22:52] the sea water from flooding into the interior of the ship and if that happened the ship would have
[01:22:56] immediately sunk from a huge explosion when the cold water hit the hot boilers.
[01:23:07] So you're looking at the wall of the ship. You know on the other side of this wall and these
[01:23:13] are like interior walls that aren't meant for the pressure of the external sea. You can see them
[01:23:19] bowing from the pressure. They're like balloons just bowed out, cracks in the bottom on the sides
[01:23:28] and water was coming through not a lot. I mean just sweating more less sweating.
[01:23:35] But we got help finally from the U.S. as Davis and Massey and the Davis Food coming aboard
[01:23:42] and gave us greatest assistance and great help in securing the ballcats with
[01:23:48] wood and plywood. It was a new wall. Press up against the bulkhead and you had to check it out
[01:24:00] every half hour 45 minutes. If I went on watch my other shipmates would go through there
[01:24:07] and get under there. Like I did with a battle liner and look, I thought to myself,
[01:24:14] why this is pretty stupid. What am I going to do? If it fuzz over now and I'm here looking
[01:24:20] from the cracks, it makes sense to me but I had to do it. And your boilers are still running this
[01:24:25] whole time. Yes sir, boilers were never taken off line one was taken off line but we always had
[01:24:30] steamed as well as always at least one boiler. What direction were you sailing in? Do you even know
[01:24:36] where were you trying to go? The worst I think. Pardon me. I mean were you trying to get to the
[01:24:39] fleet? Were you trying to do? Yeah I think once the attack started, I think we took a northernly course
[01:24:46] trying to get out of there might have even been a north-westernly course trying to get away from
[01:24:54] this just get away from that whole area. Exactly. But obviously we couldn't move fast enough to
[01:25:02] get away from you know, screaming jets and older torpedo boats. I mean flight speed for us was
[01:25:10] what? 17 knots? I think we did 21 knots during the speed to speed drowder. Yeah, yeah, from
[01:25:17] Abbie and Dorota. Oh okay. So it was the USS Davis and the USS Massey that eventually showed up.
[01:25:25] Were you there on this looking form when they showed up? Oh yeah I saw him come out of the
[01:25:29] morning mist. 16 hours later. How that feel? Pist? Where were you? And what was the look on the faces?
[01:25:44] The guys when they would they put just prolonged side to you guys? Yeah. One of them, well,
[01:25:49] initially they sent boats but I think the Davis actually tied up alongside us for a while.
[01:25:54] And what were those sailors? They were in damage control and they had more equipment than we did.
[01:26:05] And to be quite honestly, they had more expertise and they were in shock but they
[01:26:15] they knew what they were doing and God bless them for that. They helped us out a lot but they
[01:26:20] lived with these guys for so good dust and it wasn't a Navy's fault. It was the higher apps
[01:26:28] like I said before because these guys, I mean they felt bad. They could have been, they could have helped us.
[01:26:34] The captain asked for escort, a DE or a destroyer, anything but you're not a warship,
[01:26:43] you're not a X-Lerieship. Nobody's going to mess with you and so they did not even that just
[01:26:49] having escort. It going into a war zone with an unarmed ship. I mean it's pretty incredible.
[01:26:57] That's why I know that in my heart and I think my ship may probably agree to that
[01:27:05] we were set up to have this exact thing happen. The only thing is they couldn't sink us.
[01:27:11] They sure tried but they couldn't do it. And that by the grace of God, we're here right now
[01:27:16] to be on your great show and to have your listeners take a look at this because we're not a
[01:27:22] cabal, we're not conspiracy, we're not anything. We're just American citizens that served our
[01:27:27] country honorably to tell the truth and we'll go down that way to the last man's standing.
[01:27:35] We're not going to take this. We haven't taken it for so many years. Joe was the first president
[01:27:40] of the LVA. He was in Saudi Arabia. He worked for Ramco and he was a president long distance.
[01:27:49] Remember that Joe? Yeah. And it was pretty amazing but I just give all the credit to the great
[01:27:58] crews. He's wonderful man here and I love them all and I'm proud to be in American.
[01:28:03] But I got to say one thing at this point in my life, Jockel, I'm not, I've always been proud of my
[01:28:11] country. Now I'm not right now because I'm ashamed of what's going on, the leadership and
[01:28:17] it reminds me of back in 67, the same type of leadership. Cancer culture just didn't start with
[01:28:25] these people. It started a long time ago in 67. They tried to cancel us out but they couldn't do it.
[01:28:31] I've had threats to my life. A lot of things have been made of my life for a sandy ego visiting
[01:28:41] and I was in the lounge. I have a drink from my wife. Get ready to go get something to eat.
[01:28:47] In this guy I set beside me and he says, oh, you're aboard the liberty and I said,
[01:28:54] how do you know that? And he began to tell me the whole story and the best thing for me to do is
[01:29:00] he shut up. I said, what? He says, listen, I work for the massage, I'm a massage agent and you
[01:29:08] better shut up my wife was there too and bored to she give him hell. They had to get security
[01:29:15] to get us up to our room. But I asked the bartender, I said, who is it guy? Well he's been coming
[01:29:21] here last couple of days and he said he was a doctor. He said he told me to, and it'd be great
[01:29:27] being watch on. I told him, get the watch out of my face. You're taking pictures from me or whatever you're
[01:29:31] doing and he's just probably but I gave you another warning and that's what my wife jumped in and
[01:29:38] I think she gave me more heck than I did because she said she's a fighter too but it was
[01:29:45] it was amazing and how did they find out who we were in San Diego either by my credit cards
[01:29:54] or phone or something. I don't know but they found us and gave me a stern warning and that was
[01:30:01] 13 years ago when that happened. One thing should be said about the six-fleet personnel,
[01:30:10] their radioman didn't come out of this unscathed because they listened to our calls for help after
[01:30:18] the aircraft recalled knowing that those aircraft were recalled and it had to affect them because
[01:30:26] we were still calling for help. I mean just in case anyone has anyone doesn't have the impression of
[01:30:40] what happened on this ship. Let me go back to the account here as this sort of wraps up one
[01:30:46] of your final duties. Phil you say Rick a Mediani found some undamaged firehots as began
[01:30:51] hoising off the deck with a suicide nozzle that sprayed water and very concentrated high pressure
[01:30:57] stream. It took both of us to handle this hose because it was like a giant python and one man could
[01:31:03] not do it alone. It was the most gruesome heartbreaking task either of us had ever done because
[01:31:11] every piece of flesh was the remains of our fellow sailors many of whom were friends. As a Mediani
[01:31:19] went about this ungodly task, tears streamed down our faces and I prayed to God for forgiveness
[01:31:26] for how we were forced to treat the remains of these men. In the guntubs we found a shoe with a
[01:31:33] foot still in it which we put aside for collection. Many of the blood stains would not come off even
[01:31:41] with that special hose because the previous day's intense heat not just baking under the sun's
[01:31:47] heat but from the rockets and napalm that had been dropped on the ship by the attacking aircraft.
[01:31:53] We found out the hard way how hot this brutal weapon can burn as hot as 2,200 degrees Fahrenheit.
[01:32:23] So, the Davis, they also start taking some of your wounded off. Is that correct?
[01:32:36] I'm not very clear on that, you're not going to go for sure but I do know that the most seriously
[01:32:42] wounded were airlessed off the ship from the US and America and the Davis and the Massey were
[01:32:54] I guess more or less there to help us out. But I don't take any of the evacuees at what
[01:33:03] it was. So they did start pulling the wounded guys off. And then you guys end up
[01:33:18] sailing to Malta. That's the next thing that you do. You get to the ship stays underway and again
[01:33:26] you got some good stuff in your account. Just that trip is no easy trip because the walls
[01:33:31] are could collapse at any moment and it's not the closest. Oh it's not the closest spot. No.
[01:33:39] Where would have been the closest spot? What would the free free free free free free? Why did they pick
[01:33:45] Malta? Hope when we'd sink? If it's further away doing a four four nost five nostops, how many days
[01:33:54] it take you to get there? Six or seven days. Yeah, seven days. Yeah it was and then I was probably
[01:34:03] probably already know this but that Admiral Kidd. I think it's another reason they sent us to Malta
[01:34:09] because he wanted to brief us all and get our account of what went on. Yeah I've got your account
[01:34:15] of how that goes down. That's very interesting and actually I got another account from Ron Koukou
[01:34:21] and I said that right. Yes. Ron Koukoukou and he's one of the survivors. He's actually the guy
[01:34:25] that helped put this interview together. He did. He's got a book that's called Remember The Liberty
[01:34:32] that he wrote and he had this to say about the events once you guys arrived in Malta. He said
[01:34:37] on arrival in Malta we were headed straight to dry dock and once we were in it was up to the great
[01:34:42] crew at Malta to get us set up for repairs and whatever else needed to be done. What never occurred to
[01:34:49] me was the grizzly duties that we were that were about to be laid squarely on our shoulders. In my
[01:34:54] case as a senior enlisted man on the crew I was putting charge of recovery and identification.
[01:35:00] I would admit I tried to talk my way out of this one but I was told those from my orders and I followed
[01:35:05] them. That hour arrived sooner than I wanted as we made our way down to the dark hole below.
[01:35:11] No one knew it to expect and I was extremely apprehensive about what we could see.
[01:35:15] For 48 years I've said a little about what I saw because I wanted to spare the loved ones
[01:35:22] of these men. That cruelty if I could. With the writing of this book and in the distance in years
[01:35:30] I think I can at least say that the scene could compare to a wrecking yard of autos.
[01:35:37] But these were human body parts strewn everywhere. Carnage that escapes description with mere words.
[01:35:43] And there were more bodies that were down below which were brought to me to try and identify.
[01:35:49] Those bodies were wedged between steam pipes and in places that a body wouldn't fit.
[01:35:56] If it's any consolation to the loved ones of those men know that they never knew what it hit them.
[01:36:03] They couldn't have it had to have been instantaneous.
[01:36:15] Once you're in multi time for this investigation this investigation is being run by
[01:36:19] Admiral Isaac Kid. Actually Admiral Isaac Kid Jr. The senior Isaac Kid, Admiral Isaac Kid, was
[01:36:29] killed in Pearl Harbor. His son Jr. was commissioned 12 days after his father was killed and
[01:36:39] he served in Europe in the Pacific Theor's World War II. He was the guy in charge of this
[01:36:44] liberty incident inquiry. As you already mentioned I mean you'd think an incident like this
[01:36:50] just to gather the proper information would take months and then to go through it all would take
[01:36:56] months if not years to get through it all. They get this whole thing done in seven days.
[01:37:03] Yes sir and you know Dr. Keyford very eloquently said why would the United States government take
[01:37:13] on faith with the Israeli said when they muscled us I witnessed his never to say a word about it
[01:37:23] or consequences could be very very very severe prisoner worse we all know what worse meant.
[01:37:31] I was told that directly by Admiral Kid. That's the strange thing so Admiral Kid
[01:37:36] shows up tanks off his rank. Yes sir. And what's he a two star at this point?
[01:37:41] Yeah he was a rear was he a red arrow. So he's a two star out of
[01:37:45] Maltax office rank and since you guys down asked you all a bunch of questions hey did you see any
[01:37:50] markings on the recon aircraft did you did you see any markings on the other aircraft did you see
[01:37:55] the torpedo boat boats were there any markings on the torpedo boats did you see the the
[01:37:59] did you see the torpedo boats machine gunning the life rafts are you sure the US flag was flying
[01:38:05] over the ship so he's asking you all these questions and and at the end of asking all these questions
[01:38:13] he puts his stars back on and he says okay fellas now I'm an Admiral again and I want each and
[01:38:19] every one of you to understand something we are talking about national security here not your
[01:38:24] personal feelings not what you did or did not do I could really give a shit about any of that you
[01:38:29] listen to me once because this is the only time you're ever gonna hear it you are never
[01:38:35] to repeat what you just told me to anyone not your mother your father your wife anyone
[01:38:42] including your shipmates you are not to discuss this with anyone and especially especially not
[01:38:49] with the media or you will end up in prison or worse you know I I took that to heart when I first
[01:39:01] met Lisa be 39 years we got married ago got married in June and I never told her I was in the
[01:39:09] military at all until I read an article by Stan White he was a master chief of board the ship
[01:39:17] and it was like an ocean of relief came out for me I said wow somebody else was saying
[01:39:24] something now I can start talking little bit I know these guys here just set up the US has
[01:39:30] literally veterans association which I became a part of as soon as I found out you guys were
[01:39:35] were you know getting together and it's been a concept about ever since we were in the
[01:39:42] rose garden W. H. Bush was a president and we were out there for hours and scorching heat you
[01:39:50] know it is in DC what were you doing there were you invited to be there as as vets of the
[01:39:56] liberty to me the president you guys stationed he stiffness he wouldn't talk to us so he sent out
[01:40:03] rescue property and what year was it that that article came out that you said what year did you
[01:40:13] guys start talking about what had actually happened when you managed to book him out salt on the
[01:40:19] liberty and what year was that so in the night yeah so you guys just kept it to yourself for
[01:40:27] whatever twelve or thirteen years not saying anything yeah who would we talk to I mean
[01:40:34] everybody was spread out all over the country we didn't know where any of the survivors were
[01:40:39] did you make any sense of it in your own minds did you think yourself well I could see why they're
[01:40:44] trying to do this they don't want to have you know bad relations with this real they're trying to
[01:40:48] cover up the the fact that the American government was somehow involved with this I mean what
[01:40:53] were you thinking in your own minds I was thinking that they'd already held an investigation and
[01:40:58] and everything was copacetic but to come to find out they have never investigated it matter
[01:41:04] fact that court of inquiry was ordered by lbjada have a finding the fact they're very first one
[01:41:09] that the attack was a case of mistaken identity that's where lbj said yes that's what the word
[01:41:15] Boston said okay he was ordered he was a legal advisor yeah I got a quote here from a word
[01:41:21] Boston who's the chief legal counsel for the US Navy Court of Inquiry and he says quote I know from
[01:41:27] personal conversations I had with Admiral Kid president of the court of inquiry that president
[01:41:33] Lyndon Johnson and secretary of defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack
[01:41:39] was a case of mistaken identity despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary end quote
[01:41:46] and that's the chief legal counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry to the Liberty incident this isn't
[01:41:55] somebody that's jumping in from some other you know some other realm to try and give his opinion
[01:42:02] well you know word Boston was a good man a very brave man for coming out
[01:42:10] and and setting the record straight but there were there were people before him trying to help us
[01:42:19] you know all around but when AJ Crystal wrote a book called the Liberty incident that said he
[01:42:25] won fire because it was a book of lies and he couldn't take it anymore he said I'm gonna stick
[01:42:31] up to these guys and tell the truth what did the book what did the book the Liberty incident say
[01:42:35] it said that it was a it's a it's a really talking point in an American talking point it was a mistaken
[01:42:41] identity we're not the part of a bunch of just hardened fools that have got to act to grind
[01:42:48] hardly act to grind is to tell the truth that's why we're here we're not here to to lie or
[01:42:53] fabricate or anything like that we live through it and we don't want anybody else to go through that
[01:42:58] ever again it has a government of vandal you know same tending off a canister
[01:43:03] and they left everybody there and it almost the 13 people got 13 American heroes it got
[01:43:10] slaughtered for what forgotten and that was what we were forgotten it's done it's too late
[01:43:18] Larry when did you start here in that people were starting to tell the truth about the situation
[01:43:24] again it was a Jim and a spoke assault on the Liberty I read the book but I was still on active duty
[01:43:32] and I still had my top secret clearance and so I wasn't saying anything to anybody and
[01:43:41] as it turns out after I retired from the Navy in 1986 I I went to work as a defense contractor
[01:43:51] still supporting the national security agency so I still needed my clearances so I never said anything
[01:43:58] I never really started talking about the Liberty to my family or anyone else until I
[01:44:07] started going through PTSD psychiatric you know treatments so I knew that there were other books
[01:44:18] out I know that Phil had two or three books at Hevero the one that you referenced earlier about
[01:44:25] Ron and Cookele Phil's also a contributor to that book and Ernest Gallo is another member of the crew that
[01:44:37] helped you know with that how long were you in the Navy for 21 years you get a purple heart for being wounded on
[01:44:45] I did and what would you tell people when some other you know you're out you're you're just whites for whatever
[01:44:50] reason and you know 1975 there's guys were in Vietnam sure some you know guys there's some
[01:44:58] it's corpsmen some medics some pilots some aviators might have got purple hearts some some
[01:45:02] guys from the sea wolves or something but there's not a lot of navy guys running around in 1975
[01:45:07] 1980 1985 that had purple hearts what did you say to somebody when they said hey where did you get that
[01:45:12] purple heart from I was on the U.S. a celebrity in 1967 when we were attacked and you know I got it
[01:45:20] for Shrept and wounds and that was about it you know and no one would ever pry and say you know what
[01:45:27] the hell happened to what was going on how how that occur oh I I think a couple of times you know
[01:45:34] people would try and and pry more out of me and I just wouldn't say anything I said I just can't talk
[01:45:42] about it and again it was because of the threat of fines and imprisonment if we ever spoke about it
[01:45:53] being being a communications technician all of my work that I did was secret so trying to keep a secret
[01:46:01] wasn't wasn't something that was new to me I just suppressed it to the point that um it was building
[01:46:10] up inside me and finally I had to go to counseling and did you still have your clearance?
[01:46:18] no when I when I retired in 2008 I relinquished my my clearance they didn't take it away
[01:46:26] that you didn't relict it I just decided I was 62 years old it's it's time to pull the plug
[01:46:34] uh as you were serving in the navy now it's 1975 now it's 1979 now it's 1982 and you know that
[01:46:46] you know you know you got ordered to not say anything which look I mean there's things that I've
[01:46:50] done which I'm not allowed to talk about right you realize okay I might not know everything about the
[01:46:55] situation but I know I'm not allowed to talk about it but I'm sure that there's a reason for that
[01:47:00] that makes sense and I get it you know was part of you thinking you know this is not this this
[01:47:09] this didn't happen the way they say it happened this seems like they're covered it up not for any
[01:47:14] reasons of national security but for other reasons yes I mean I because I work for the national
[01:47:21] security agency they actually did a report in 1980 that was classified top secret um and it was
[01:47:31] their recap of what happened to the US's liberty I had a copy of that report on my desk until I
[01:47:41] retired from the navy in in 1986 um and then I had to turn it back in because it was you know
[01:47:48] what that report accurate no no and I mean there was information that I knew should have been in there
[01:47:58] that had to deal with communications that that didn't reflect those communications and
[01:48:06] the thing that they were trying to report more than anything else was a lack of communications
[01:48:13] that occurred resulting from this hundred mile um free zone I guess that Israel had declared
[01:48:23] no no ship should enter into that hundred miles zone off the coast of Sinai and apparently
[01:48:34] our naval atoshae and um and Israel had told them that we don't have any navy ships there
[01:48:43] six fleet confirmed that they didn't have any any naval ships there and that's you know a problem
[01:48:51] with us traveling by ourselves that they they they didn't recognize that we were over there or
[01:48:58] they conveniently forgot that we were there but there was communications that were supposed to have
[01:49:06] been sent us telling us to move back off the coast and we never received those communications
[01:49:12] and so that's more about what this report from NSA said and it didn't talk about the other
[01:49:20] intercepts that had you know the aircraft talking to ground control we're talking about the
[01:49:26] target talking about seeing the American flag and you know I don't know why that didn't
[01:49:34] come out until later but we kept doing a freedom movement information act requests trying to get
[01:49:41] a lot of this documentation back out in the public so the truth could be told
[01:49:48] so Joe what did you do after the incident so place how much longer were you in the navy
[01:49:53] for did you stay and what did you do I got out I was transferred off the liberty onto the USS
[01:49:59] Solvenia so it was AFS 2 fast combat stewardship and the home ported in in Naples Italy
[01:50:08] and it was a very active signal bridge one of the most active in the six fleet at the time
[01:50:15] and so I go from a singleman school to a ship that doesn't need a signalman to a ship that
[01:50:25] has a very very intense signalman but after that I went I got out
[01:50:33] Halloween on 69 and same question to you I mean were you thinking to yourself what's one of the
[01:50:40] reasons you got out because you're thinking hey this crazy thing just happened to me I lost
[01:50:45] so many of my friends and now I'm told I can never talk about it again did that impact the way you
[01:50:51] thought about your career interesting thing about that um on this Elvenia there was a uh
[01:50:59] career counselor and every time you were getting short you would call you in this office and give you
[01:51:05] a long-speel about why you should trip over and stay in the navy so he didn't know he didn't know me
[01:51:10] personally and they didn't know my history so he called me into his office sat down and he said as
[01:51:18] well-metters you're getting short you're thinking about shipping over and I said no and he said why
[01:51:25] it's because I was on the liberty and he said goodbye yeah Roger that Phil what was the rest of your
[01:51:33] career like well I joined February the 6th and got out December the year yeah 64 now get out
[01:51:42] December the 12th 1967 I stayed out for a couple of years and I wasn't going to ship both
[01:51:49] Reather because I was done but then uh you know here I'm I'm 22 then or 23 and I say man I'm not
[01:51:58] my life's not going anywhere I'm not doing anything sorry I read a lesson what back then navy and it
[01:52:03] got stationed for the US as Maddox he just uh 731 that was in the talking dog talk that's how
[01:52:11] the Vietnam War started and some of the original crewmates were still on there it said hey turning
[01:52:17] that that never happened that's all BS it was a pretext for war they Johnson dreamed up and it
[01:52:23] turned right back around to the US has a liberty another pretext phony outcome to keep his war machine
[01:52:36] going to Vietnam and it's a land grab for Israel and a permanent foothold in the area for the United
[01:52:46] States so you when you got to the Maddox and they're talking about those attacks those you know
[01:52:54] supposed attacks and the guys would say I didn't happen yeah no I didn't happen in the way it
[01:53:00] worked and I told a couple of guys about their you know my situation my
[01:53:09] division officer he read my file and this is when I was getting out and he says hey man
[01:53:14] maybe you should get out I wasn't I wasn't really into it but I thought well maybe I
[01:53:25] can tough it out you know made a few bucks while I was in the service but that's how I was
[01:53:32] feeding my family with your lucky to be transferred to the star can then the call
[01:53:36] the um as this call as this cover up continues I got another statement here this is from
[01:53:49] this is from Lieutenant General Marshall S. Carger director of the NSA
[01:53:55] under who's authority the liberty was operating he said couldn't be anything else but deliberate
[01:54:01] there's just no way you could have a series of circumstances that would justify this being an accident
[01:54:08] you know as my friend Darrell Cooper pointed out when this attack happens once an international
[01:54:14] lodge an even convention when a when a naval vessel gets disabled you're then as the attacker
[01:54:22] responsible for trying to help lend aid to that ship and certainly the sailors that are that are
[01:54:28] in the water if they're in the water you're not supposed to be gunning up their lifeboats and
[01:54:34] strafing their their the decks of their ship as they're already disabled vessel so this is just
[01:54:40] wrong and every circumstance and you know I was talking before we started recording this you know I've
[01:54:44] been in friendly fire incidents before um in pretty bad ones where people died and I totally understand
[01:54:55] that there's the fog of war that these things happen that that that you make mistakes and someone
[01:55:00] sees something that they didn't think they saw or someone saw something that they didn't think they see
[01:55:04] and there's all things that there's a lot of chaos that happens but to have that happen for
[01:55:11] hours upon hours when there's an American flag flying you know and and you know Joe that was
[01:55:19] again this is something else we were joking about when you're off air you know since you were
[01:55:23] a single men with no other ships to signal to you really had one job and that was to know what
[01:55:29] was flying what the ship was flying and you know 100% that that that that the American flag was
[01:55:35] clearly visible and that you actually ended up raising an even bigger American flag that's right
[01:55:43] you know I might add to that uh jacco the uh is really war room had his plotted on their map
[01:55:51] as American and friendly they said they changed the watch and inadvertently forgot we were there
[01:55:59] and took us off their war table I mean come on man you know when you when you change watches
[01:56:06] you you inform everybody of what's going on and they just took it all the way and that's uh still
[01:56:14] it or it takes me I know because he's guys too yeah and by the way there's no more important
[01:56:18] piece of information on the battlefield than where your friendly forces are yes sure so this isn't
[01:56:22] like we oh well whatever you know we're just gonna pull some people off the board no that's that's a
[01:56:27] synth and people focus on the flying of the flag was it flying was it not flying but that's really
[01:56:36] that's not that's just one of the ways of identifying a ship you know it's there's the color
[01:56:41] the structure how the the deck is laid out you know the the masks and all that stuff and they
[01:56:48] claim that they approached within the thousand yards and miss identified it says a 40 year old black
[01:56:54] hull the russed out Egyptian tramp steamer half our size jacco Tony Hart
[01:57:06] then a chief pedi officer assigned to a US Navy relay station in Morocco that handled
[01:57:11] communications between Washington and the sixth fleet remembered listening as defense
[01:57:16] secretary Robert McNamara in Washington ordered rear admiral Lawrence Geiss commander of the
[01:57:24] America's carrier battle group to bring the jet's home when Geiss protested that the liberty was
[01:57:30] under attack and needed help Hart said McNamara retorted that president Johnson is not going
[01:57:37] to go to war or embarrass an American ally over a few sailors end quote that's a violation of article 99
[01:57:50] of the UCMJ it is indeed it is indeed yes article 99 of the UCMJ you have to go out and attack
[01:58:00] the enemy and you have to go out and support your other troops that's article 99 yes
[01:58:10] statement by CIA director at the time of the attack Richard Holmes in a 1984 interview
[01:58:16] he said everything possible is done to keep from the American public really the enormity of this
[01:58:22] attack on an American naval vessel since this is for the agency's record I don't think there can be
[01:58:28] any doubt that the Israelis knew exactly what they were doing any statement to the effect that they
[01:58:34] didn't know it was an American ship is nonsense I mean that's that's pretty freaking clear
[01:58:46] you guys got a bunch of awards for you know for what took place including the Medal of Honor
[01:58:58] Captain McConnell received the Medal of Honor for for his actions which is strange to take the story
[01:59:11] of someone receiving the Medal of Honor not explained what happened that was covered up in an
[01:59:18] naval shipyard that's where he received these Medal of Honor and shipyard not it's a White House
[01:59:22] where he can be recognized for being the skipper of our ship and getting the Medal of Honor
[01:59:29] because it brings too much heat on and unfortunately I think the captain was between a real rock
[01:59:37] in a hard place on one hand he can be treated like a hero on the other hand he can we can be treated
[01:59:45] like a Z-Roll and he went with hero I'm not saying he didn't deserve it I'm just saying that
[01:59:52] he clamped up and it was years and years later I wanted a year later he finally said well yeah
[01:59:57] I think it was a it was a plan to tag that was I think there's a copy of his retirement speech
[02:00:03] you can watch it online I've watched it and I think it was his retirement speech where he says
[02:00:08] hey we need to find out that we need to tell the truth about what actually happened
[02:00:12] yes sir he wouldn't even join the LBA I tried for years to get him to join but he says it's too
[02:00:18] political for him to get involved and finally he did join the association after years and years
[02:00:27] which were a vodice
[02:00:28] Dean Ross who is secretary the state at the time said I was never quote I was never
[02:00:36] satisfied with his Rayleigh explanation there's sustained attack to disable and sink liberty
[02:00:41] precluded and assault by an accident or some trigger happy local commander
[02:00:47] through diplomatic channels we refuse to accept their explanations I didn't believe them then
[02:00:52] and I don't believe them now the attack was outrageous you know some of the things that you already
[02:01:01] talked about there's a there's a BBC documentary called Dead in the Water it's it's it's
[02:01:07] you know one of the things that it said is what you said earlier Phil which is hey if the
[02:01:12] is Rayleigh's could get the Americans into this war in a big way you know that can really help us out
[02:01:18] against these Arabs is what is Rayleigh was thinking and these kind of things happen
[02:01:30] what is what do you guys do with the LBA now what's what's the purpose
[02:01:35] how can people help well one of the things that we're still trying to do is get recognition
[02:01:41] for our 34th fall in shipmates we've tried over the years to get Congress to
[02:01:49] conduct a fallen impartial investigation and it's fallen on deaf ears
[02:01:56] right now we've got a resolution going forward to the ask for June 8th to be
[02:02:05] declared as a US celebrity remembered stay it should be a fairly simple thing for Congress to
[02:02:16] do I mean we have national hot dog day in national you know ice cream day let's have a
[02:02:24] national US as Liberty remembered stay and not just one year but every year June 8th right
[02:02:37] so we're working on that I've got a resolution in the state of New York going through the
[02:02:42] American Legion up there to have that presented through their channels I'm in a process of doing it
[02:02:51] a state of Maryland I'm working with a former senator Pete McClusky to get a petition out
[02:03:03] to get signatures for people that will support the establishment of June 8th is US
[02:03:09] a celebrity remembered stay and then present that to various legislators to show them that
[02:03:17] hey the American public wants to know they need to know and you know if nothing else you're
[02:03:27] you're honoring the 34 men that gave the ultimate sacrifice back on June 8th 1967
[02:03:36] when when you talk about some of the awards that were received most every one of us that received
[02:03:43] any kind of an award purple heart or prom star you know the Congressional Medal of Honor
[02:03:49] it was all done in private there were no big ceremonies like you would normally expect for you know
[02:03:57] someone with that just came off the most decorated ship in the United States Navy since World War
[02:04:03] II and you know 95% of the American public is not even aware but you know Jacob he said
[02:04:16] something very interesting about the American Legion which fires me up because about four or five years
[02:04:25] ago Len Hall of the and Ernest Gallo our former president we're at the convention in the
[02:04:33] American Legion and they're wanted to get a booth and things like this and they wouldn't allow it
[02:04:40] for us to get a booth so Len Hall of the he was so disappointed and upset he tore up his American
[02:04:48] Legion card right there and he didn't throw it in anybody he just sprinkled it right there and the
[02:04:56] girl said one of the organizers he assaulted me and they threw his ass in jail
[02:05:04] well I wouldn't they let you have a booth because they said the US has liberty is non
[02:05:12] is not essential we don't recognize you guys and don't ever come back because you're banned from the
[02:05:18] American Legion for life this is from their national convention it's still in effect today
[02:05:27] that we can't have a booth when he's talking about Ernie and and Len going to that
[02:05:34] national convention they went there with the understanding that we had already paid our $1,000
[02:05:41] entry fee and they got there and we're told that they hadn't received the check and they hadn't
[02:05:48] received the check so Ernie pulled out his credit card and said I'll pay for it right now we're here
[02:05:56] we're we want a booth and they said no you can't do that and then I think it got to be somewhat
[02:06:02] confrontational and that's when you know Glenn got upset tore up his membership card and
[02:06:16] we've tried in vain since then to get senior management in the American Legion national
[02:06:23] organization to reinstate us so that we can have a booth there that's how we tell our story that's how
[02:06:31] we get other patriots to you know go back to their home states and say hey let's let's try and do
[02:06:38] something and support of the U.S. celebrity I wrote up a couple of years ago resolutions for every
[02:06:45] state in the union this was done at the VFW national convention and I had a representative
[02:06:53] from from each state take one of these resolutions back for their legislators to consider an
[02:07:00] introduced in their state legislator. and I don't know that anything ever came of it and that's
[02:07:12] the problem with a lot of this trying to get people to stand up and say hey if you want our
[02:07:20] support will support you just like your audience today if there's people out there that are willing
[02:07:26] to you know pick up the torch and run with it I'll be more than happy to write up a resolution for
[02:07:34] any organization that they have and and ask them to support the establishment of the
[02:07:41] June 8th U.S. celebrity remembered today. Do you guys have a website? Yes. And what's that?
[02:07:49] U.S. celebrity veterans.org. I think you take care of that Josh J.
[02:07:54] And I know actually it's we have a webmaster for it. Okay. That the one I take care of is U.S.
[02:07:59] celebrity veterans.org. Yeah. Yeah. To donate anybody out there wants to help the celebrity
[02:08:08] veterans continue on doing what we're doing. We're a small organization now a lot of the guys have
[02:08:13] already passed on you know the older guys we just lost the commander loose he was 92 I think. Yeah.
[02:08:21] And he just died this year and a good man a brave man he's he's also in a sacrifice and
[02:08:27] liberty I think you're really going to get a good insight of what went on Jocco because it is
[02:08:33] sacrifice and liberty to me is probably the most interesting
[02:08:40] truthful documentary that's ever been done in my view. Now I think you was probably free.
[02:08:46] Yeah I would. It's you've got I witnessed accounts being taken into account
[02:08:53] through through the four different you know one hour disk so it's it's not a quick breed you
[02:09:01] got to get a devote some time to it but it's certainly well worth going through it and
[02:09:07] hearing from probably what a half a dozen or so of us survivors and
[02:09:19] true news that are an excellent job and that just can't say enough about how they
[02:09:26] did their research not just with with us but with other authors and
[02:09:33] I guess senior politicians so that it's a most factual account that I'm aware of.
[02:09:47] Yes it's a resource of iRiser and a unique position in the American history and
[02:09:51] US Navy history where the only crew in US Navy history that has the task of lobbying
[02:09:59] the deal D and Congress to investigate at hack on our ship and we don't have any experience at that
[02:10:09] we don't know anybody who does but we need help from people who do we love to have a
[02:10:17] professional approach and and offer his services we can't bear him we don't have any money
[02:10:23] but we need professional help in lobbying and in the legal arena we don't know if
[02:10:33] I don't know if if there's any legal steps we can take we were in military we were
[02:10:38] it was our job to to go where we're supposed to go and do we're supposed to do
[02:10:43] whether we're civilians on the ship too. Do you guys feel like there's been progress
[02:10:49] towards getting the truth out there because to me I mean when I hear about the US
[02:10:56] Liberty now I immediately kind of most people know sort of the underlying story that it was
[02:11:03] an attack it was from Israel that you know the US Navy lost a bunch of sailors they don't necessarily
[02:11:10] know how many but do you guys feel like there's progress been made in the story getting out there
[02:11:15] in the truth getting out there there's progress being made but not to the extent that people who can
[02:11:22] do something about it do something about it so what is it that what would be the the win what
[02:11:28] would be victory for you all. I'm sitting in the mines winter circle right now with you doing
[02:11:35] I feel like a winner and I think these two gentlemen feel the same way and I want to mention my
[02:11:40] shipmates they all know about this and I'm sure they're going to download this and watch it
[02:11:43] but a special thanks you know to Moshefer and his wife Donna he's the money man he takes care of the
[02:11:51] money no we have and they have a ship story you can buy things from and it's just
[02:11:59] our way of trying to give them to get back the real story and in the last three or four years
[02:12:07] Jockel we've been more progress and we have in the last 55 because of sacrificing liberty and
[02:12:14] now here we are with you and possibly Jill Rogan is going to get a call from you and say hey you've been
[02:12:21] a get these boys on. I could try and I think that's a long list of people try to go on
[02:12:29] I'm Mr. Rogan's podcast I can guarantee you that. Well the win for me is a congressional
[02:12:36] investigation okay complete and comprehensive redundant to be sure but it needs to be said
[02:12:43] congressional investigation but that's a two-edged sword because members of Congress have refused to
[02:12:51] investigate the attack on our ship. War crimes is the US statute. Accessory after the fact is the US
[02:13:01] statute. So members of Congress who were in a position to conduct an investigation refused to
[02:13:09] despite being lobbied by victims of those war crimes might stand accused of being
[02:13:16] accessories after the fact and I don't think accessories after the fact is covered under
[02:13:21] congressional immunity. So there's some scared yeah Congress people out there there's no statute
[02:13:28] limitations on murder and none and that's what happened. The murder these men and try to murder us.
[02:13:34] I mean you know I call the FBI's CIA and I tell him hey I'm like I witnessed a murder and they get
[02:13:41] all excited. Did I tell him what is all about? There's a little bit of that's not it's never
[02:13:46] mind that's what you've been investigating. We've never had an investigation except the
[02:13:51] the phony board of inquiry and we get letters back from Congress somewhere in the earth that I brought
[02:13:56] to show you there's been multiple investigations so there's never been none to align to us where I
[02:14:03] witness is to what happened and they're telling us that we've been it's been a congressional investigation
[02:14:10] at least three or four times or it's never been a congressional investigation. They lied to us
[02:14:14] but do you think they're telling American people? Probably a good place to wrap it up I mean that
[02:14:24] that sounds like we know what we want to do to move this thing forward with the Congressional
[02:14:27] investigation get the word out there. Let's make due-nate you know National Day of Remembrance
[02:14:33] for the USS Liberty Larry just any closing thoughts from you? No I just encourage your listeners to
[02:14:45] you know take what we've said today and if they have any interest at all and trying to support
[02:14:52] the Liberty go to our website contact us you know our contact information is on the website
[02:15:02] and like I said I'm willing to draft resolutions or petitions whatever they want
[02:15:12] for their organization to get signatures to take before their legislators and trying to get support
[02:15:20] for this recognition for our fallen ship rates that should have happened 55 years ago.
[02:15:31] Indeed on our blog there's a USS Liberty veterans dot blog there's a tab that says I
[02:15:38] think it's help us out and in that tab or a series I think four letters you can write to
[02:15:44] you can just fill in the blank and submit one is calling for have a member of Congress send you
[02:15:51] a copy of the Congressional investigations and they can't do it one is asking them to contact
[02:15:57] the Congressional Research Service and ask them to ask the US government and investigate
[02:16:03] the attack and we got a response from one I've been trying for years and one finally actually asked
[02:16:09] the the Congressional Research Service and he said no another one asks for Congress to allow
[02:16:17] their boilerplate responses to members to constituents who write asking about the attack
[02:16:24] stop using Israeli talking points use USS Liberty survivors talking points and
[02:16:32] the the the season way to for them to get involved and then when they get the responses
[02:16:41] send them to us and we can draft a a response for them to to send.
[02:16:46] That's the old letter writing campaign. Yeah let's get let's get them that way
[02:16:52] anything else shall I think that's it. Fill any closing thoughts. Yes and closing I
[02:16:58] encourage your listeners and watchers at all down low-diss share it with everybody
[02:17:04] pass the word around. Write your senators and congressmen and let her know that the real deal
[02:17:10] is that you've been lying about this all the time and we know it but they don't want to come back
[02:17:15] and tell them tell everybody that their lives anyway I mean it's going to be hard I mean
[02:17:20] the Congress and everything is going to take the people people your listeners to help us out
[02:17:24] people that did watch sacrifice on Liberty go sacrifice on Liberty.com and God bless you for having us on
[02:17:32] your your good man and all of you I appreciate it so much God bless you. One thing I
[02:17:37] forgot to mention since your blog is posted on your YouTube site there's a comment section
[02:17:45] and we'd be happy to enter into a dialogue with anybody on that comment section whether they're
[02:17:51] pro is really think they're pro is really or on the US side. The comments will definitely be there.
[02:17:59] Okay yeah we look forward to it. Well thanks for coming you know that these these
[02:18:06] the conjecture and the mystery around all these events they they they've been around for a while but
[02:18:11] I think there's one thing that there's absolutely no mystery about one thing that cannot be disputed
[02:18:16] and that's the courage and the valor and the sacrifice of the brave sailors of the US S Liberty.
[02:18:22] So thank you for coming on thank you for sharing your story. Thank you all personally for your
[02:18:31] service and your sacrifice and we won't forget what you did for the country and nor will we ever
[02:18:37] forget the memory of your 34 shipmates who gave their lives and who embodied the navy ethos
[02:18:48] of honor, courage and commitment we commit to not forgetting their sacrifice. Thank you.
[02:18:54] Thank you yes thank you. Thanks for coming guys. Thanks you.
[02:18:58] And with that Joe and Larry and Phil have left the building echo did you know anything about the
[02:19:05] USS Liberty prior to today. Oh I have heard things. I'm not at the end of the day no. Let's say
[02:19:13] there's level five knowledge. I was at level 0.5. So you knew it existed but you didn't know too much about it.
[02:19:21] Yeah like when you said that they were coming on and you said the USS Liberty I was like
[02:19:28] like I was like okay it wasn't like just in the dark it wasn't a shot in the dark for me. No.
[02:19:33] Yeah so it's too bad more people don't know about it and I'm glad that they were able to come on
[02:19:39] and share the story and it just you know just really it is kind of crazy and I think we've done
[02:19:46] I've done some you know obviously we've done some podcasts about well about McNamara for sure
[02:19:53] and I'm not a I don't like McNamara I don't like the way he led I don't like the way he did things
[02:20:00] and so this is just like another nail in the coffin for McNamara from my perspective
[02:20:08] to know that you know he was one of the people that allowed this stuff to happen and LBJ the same thing
[02:20:16] President Johnson same thing you know President Johnson
[02:20:22] it just shows you the level of kind of corruption and ineptitude that the leadership had
[02:20:28] and what's I don't really what really bothers me about it is you know if someone's not capable
[02:20:36] and they end up in a position you're like you know if you're if you're supposed to be doing something
[02:20:41] and you don't have the capability of doing it I'm probably not I'm not going to be mad at you you know I'm not
[02:20:47] going to get mad at you but if you're capable what you're doing things a certain way for
[02:20:53] because you think you're smarter than everybody else or you think you can outsmart the
[02:20:56] American people or you think you can outsmart you know your your boss or whatever and you you
[02:21:02] you're trying to maneuver I'm going to have a problem with that so I'm going to have a more of a problem
[02:21:06] with I'm actually going to have a lot more of a problem with someone that's just hey echo had this
[02:21:11] idea this what he thought was going to happen it didn't go that way okay you know got it
[02:21:18] he's not capable of doing it he didn't understand the situation like he can't get mad at someone's
[02:21:24] lack of ability to do something but if echo was smart and you were in there and you made decisions
[02:21:30] that actually made things go a certain way that's going to make me mad and that's how I feel
[02:21:36] about Mac and Marin Johnson and so there you go so what okay so governments claiming mistake
[02:21:45] and identity they're claiming what like what exactly what's the explanation there are several
[02:21:53] explanations the main thing that what the what the government says the fashion say it's all the
[02:22:00] government's not all the government says this that this cover up at the time was hey it was mistaken
[02:22:03] identity it was a you know unfortunate incident the the Israeli said sorry we're carrying on with our
[02:22:10] mission there's two there's two real explanations one of them is that hey the Israelis didn't want
[02:22:20] Americans listening so they attacked the ship and there's one that is the Israelis wanted
[02:22:28] they wanted America to enter the war and they knew that America would enter the war if one of
[02:22:36] the American ships was attacked by these Arab forces and so they tried to do it in such a way
[02:22:44] that because you wouldn't think the Israelis would do that I mean that's like crazy right there's
[02:22:48] are are actual allies so how could this happen it must have been the you know it was obviously
[02:22:53] the Arabs there's no survivors the ship is sunk and gone we better go pay the Arab nations back
[02:23:02] for sinking our ship so is it out of the question that people do that kind of thing not at all not
[02:23:10] at all false flag attacks like that's a literal false flag attack so and look I don't really even know
[02:23:19] how debatable it even is you know like this is the Israelis have admitted that they attack the
[02:23:26] ship they've said it hey it was a mistake we're sorry it wasn't that long it wasn't that bad we didn't
[02:23:34] shoot up there's there's some where they directly conflict with no we didn't shoot up the life bolts
[02:23:40] the life bolts they said didn't do that so they they kind of claim it they kind of downplay it
[02:23:46] and claimed it's a mistake that's sort of the cover up the cover up is downplay it it was a mistake
[02:23:51] the reality is at least at least admit the full extent of what happened and then on top of that
[02:23:59] was it intentional did you actually want to do this to drag Americans into this war and then
[02:24:07] if you want to do that and the people that called off the support to the vessel are Americans
[02:24:14] you knew about it so that's why these guys are calling for a full congressional investigation
[02:24:22] a congressional inquiry to figure out exactly what happened so people can be held accountable
[02:24:28] and not only so people can be held accountable but so you can look back and say hey here's the
[02:24:33] mistakes that we made we put too much power in this position we we allowed our allies to do too much
[02:24:39] we didn't run through the chain of command like there's a bunch of things that you can learn from it
[02:24:44] and to not break it down with the inquiry like that and find out what actually happened I mean
[02:24:48] a seven day inquiry I mean Phil brought in a stack of papers he got all kinds of information about this
[02:24:55] you couldn't even cover that information in seven day inquiry so yeah that's it you kind of
[02:25:03] in a way draw the line in the sand when you start like lying and then telling people would
[02:25:08] be like hey you're not allowed to talk about this whatever that's okay and even that I you know
[02:25:13] as I said on the podcast there are some things for national security where this is what happened
[02:25:20] and you can't talk about it anymore hey all the saw guys warn allowed to talk about the secret
[02:25:24] war for twenty years that's what actually happened they signed a paper and said they couldn't talk about it
[02:25:30] those are classified information you know I'll talk about it what's what makes it disturbing in
[02:25:35] this one is it doesn't seem like the national security in a straightforward manner was in jeopardy
[02:25:41] what was in jeopardy was the relationship with Israel the political standing of because if let's
[02:25:47] face it if the America would have found out that somehow our own government was involved in
[02:25:53] attacking one of our own ships like that's game over for the entire administration yeah so what are
[02:25:58] they gonna do hey don't say anything to anybody to protect their own ass and this is not beyond
[02:26:06] a guy like Johnson and not beyond a guy like McNamara yeah so these politicians that think they're
[02:26:16] smart horrible stuff so if you want to support them you can go to USS Liberty Vets
[02:26:27] Liberty Veterans USS Liberty Veterans dot org or USS Liberty Veterans dot blog that's where you can go to
[02:26:34] support them if you want to get a bunch of more information about it there's a movie that
[02:26:41] filled pointed out sacrificing Liberty so check out that movie also fills written a couple books
[02:26:46] one of them called Holocaust on the high seas by Phil Terny the other one is called erasing the Liberty
[02:26:55] the battle to keep alive the memory of Israel's massacre on the USS Liberty so there's two books
[02:27:01] you can pick up that were were written by Phil Terny who you heard talking today as far as the podcast
[02:27:08] goes if far as you go really if you want to support the podcast you want to support yourself
[02:27:14] check out check out some jockel fuel dot com it's true finally you have some healthy
[02:27:22] supplements not with the uh negative side of the negative side of the negative side of the
[02:27:26] fix yeah finally oh what what what what's the contest we got going get some contest it probably
[02:27:31] over by now but I don't know it's like the battle of the level of the flavors we're given
[02:27:37] someone a years worth ago was that one go a day you think there's a lot of co-man
[02:27:43] that's a lot of go that's a lot of go yes also yes some good tasting protein this is all stuff
[02:27:50] that's going to keep us really on the path really and then on the path we had a birthday party this
[02:27:54] past weekend yeah I know I didn't make it slipped off the path a little bit what do you want to do
[02:27:58] what some cupcakes cupcakes I don't like cupcakes matter if I could don't believe in like cake no
[02:28:02] cake okay no what's the jam is it dry taste dry to me so what's your jam or actually already
[02:28:09] know this I know the pigs in a blanket situation I know you like that that's a good one
[02:28:14] but what about dessert oh uh I'm talking to uh mint chocolate chip ice cream yes we did have that too
[02:28:19] yeah yeah yeah I'll let you buy that case I showed up and try to tempt me try to bring me down
[02:28:25] no my kids like the one negatively impact my life that's what you're doing you know I would have just
[02:28:29] had a mulk a mint mulk yeah which is equivalent no but you do a good slash bad job of eating
[02:28:37] these cakes and whatnot if the kids are around and they want to have something with you
[02:28:42] what do I do a good bet slash bad job because you do a good job bonding with the kids
[02:28:46] but meanwhile you're sleeping on the path it's like what do you call a tactical
[02:28:49] look at the two of those tactical sacrifice for strategic win yeah and then you're teaching
[02:28:55] your kids how to eat cake I know there's a there's a saying and the I don't know my might be
[02:29:02] the whole navy but might be the whole military but we'd say like let the meat cake you know so
[02:29:07] that obviously we call the officers cake eaters oh damn okay so I heard every cake eater so I
[02:29:13] wouldn't eat cake it was like a thing like I wouldn't eat cake kind of like now I don't eat
[02:29:17] donuts right like out of the principal yeah just out of principle I could I probably never
[02:29:21] be able to have a donut again for this my life because there can be someone with a 600
[02:29:24] millimeter telephoto lens I'll be on the cover of the freaking national inquieter joc was on a
[02:29:30] liar you're too very possible so no not over here but we will have some mulk we will have some
[02:29:36] joint warfare some super krill jockel fuel.com you can get the stuff the vitamin shopping get the
[02:29:41] drinks at wall wall we got some um we got ready to drink protein shakes coming yeah which is a
[02:29:48] kind of a game changer right when you use a roll into a store your hungry you need that
[02:29:52] year you're starting to go cat a bottle like oh yeah and you need that little hater yeah plus is a
[02:29:58] perfect mix you know it's insured perfect yeah this is good to go so we got those common shortly so
[02:30:04] yep jockel fuel.com check it out if you want to check it out some good stuff on there also American
[02:30:09] made stuff American made denim some hunting stuff coming yeah yeah it's basically the hyper on that is
[02:30:15] cusy yeah well it's a big deal to make stuff in America actually it's awesome but he commented
[02:30:22] on one of the YouTube videos and said yeah but what he do and stuff made in America but the
[02:30:28] components are from overseas our components are not from overseas no sir our components are from
[02:30:33] America you know the the materials made in America grown the cotton cotton the components for
[02:30:40] the components is made in America that's what we're saying so yeah when you go to origin USA
[02:30:44] you are supporting not just origin USA you're supporting the entire the entire supply chain that
[02:30:51] runs down to the fields in Texas the fields in South Carolina the factories in South Carolina
[02:30:58] the mills in South Carolina it's you're feeding the entire system by supporting origin USA
[02:31:05] so check out origin USA.com and you're not supporting uniquely affordable labor
[02:31:11] oh slave labor wait wait that's the extra new you you you from ism uniquely supportable
[02:31:17] I think that's what they called it on the thing that I watched uniquely affordable labor
[02:31:24] yeah we call that slave labor yes that's what that's called and we don't do it yep
[02:31:28] we have awesome workers American workers that are doing a great job and get and have skill
[02:31:36] and bring it to the table every day and work their ass off to make these products so
[02:31:40] there you go for the USA dot com check that out also you want to represent you know where we got
[02:31:45] some good shirts or have we have new shirt web all new stuff coming that's really very soon
[02:31:49] just like was freedom shirts who do designs who designs oh really you went hammer well you know
[02:31:57] I figure that we all kind of wanted a little bit of an update and still consistent I would say
[02:32:03] but go to an anyway jockelstore dot com nursery can get your shirts and hats and hoodies and merch
[02:32:09] if you want to represent good spot uh look at that guy with the mursher
[02:32:13] what's the has the has the latest Sherlock or shirt that I designed on the market yeah is it out there
[02:32:20] yeah so people had it they haven't had it delivered march yeah that's kind of that's kind of
[02:32:25] cool that they have no idea what's coming and it just shows up oh yeah yeah it might be super dope
[02:32:30] yeah in this case it is recently apparently according to the field so everyone's a while
[02:32:35] those who have my phone number or on twitter or the grim they um they'll send me a picture of them
[02:32:43] with the shirt on and they say you nailed it with this one or whatever and I've been getting a
[02:32:50] lot of those recently for the past three months day yeah yeah good enough good enough good for me
[02:32:57] easy so yeah check out the Sherlock or there subscribe to this podcast don't forget about
[02:33:02] joc on the ground joc on the ground dot com we've been doing we've been doing a lot of q and a on
[02:33:07] there only because we have a place where people that are members of joc on the ground dot com can
[02:33:13] email so we've been going through all those questions and yes at some point we backed off doing q and
[02:33:21] a on this podcast probably because the questions were overwhelming in numbers so now we kind of
[02:33:26] narrow that down that's one of the things that we're doing on joc on the ground dot com if you
[02:33:29] got a question you can email it there because eight dollars and eighteen cents a month that's how
[02:33:34] we keep it up and running that's also our escape hatch if we get banned or censored or de-platform
[02:33:43] for whatever reason and if you can't afford that we still want you in the game you can just email
[02:33:47] assistance at underground at joc assistance at joc on the ground dot com so check that out
[02:33:53] you know also youtube we do have a youtube channel good version of the podcast yeah check down and also origin
[02:33:59] USA origin HD yeah that's a good youtube channel as well that is a follow-up channel how an American
[02:34:07] company from top to bottom is run right interesting now yeah psychological warfare you can check up flip flip side
[02:34:14] canvas we got we got the code just just out there getting after in seventy four different directions which is awesome
[02:34:23] he doing all kinds of stuff he's got a gym he's a firefighter he's a pilot a helicopter pilot
[02:34:29] so the codemire he's got another business which is called flipside canvas dot com and you can get
[02:34:35] cool stuff to hang on your wall there and for books look the books I just mentioned
[02:34:40] um a racing liberty by Phil attorney we got his other book Holocaust on the high seas
[02:34:47] there's also a book called remember the liberty by Philip Nelson and Ron kooka which I
[02:34:54] Ron put this podcast together today I mentioned him so you can check out his book
[02:34:58] also speaking of doing a bunch of different things we got jockel publishing and jockel publishing
[02:35:03] has published some books published Mikey in the Dragons published way the warrior kid
[02:35:07] three and four also Holly McKay she wrote a book called only cry for the living and right now
[02:35:16] so she's been in Afghanistan Iraq Syria she's a war reporter right now she's on the ground in
[02:35:23] Ukraine she was in cave today so check out Holly McKay and if you want to support her get her book
[02:35:32] only cry for the living you can get that a jockel publishing dot com or you can get it on amazon or
[02:35:41] whatever so then you got all the books that I've written uh I think there's some kind of a special coming
[02:35:45] out on final spin so I've got a special on this is amazon uh leadership strategy text you know
[02:35:52] all my books check those out if you want to appreciate it eschlam front that's my leadership consulting
[02:35:59] company where we solve problems through leadership leadership is the solution we just sold out the
[02:36:04] text is master so if you want to come do a master if you want to go to any of our events just go
[02:36:11] to an eschlam front dot com and check out the details of what we do how you can utilize us to help
[02:36:17] your company we also have extreme ownership academy extreme ownership dot com speaking of asking
[02:36:23] me questions come on there literally ask me a question I'll be on a zoom call on Monday and you can
[02:36:30] ask me whatever you want I'll be on there the next Monday I'll be there on Wednesday I'll be there
[02:36:33] on Friday come and check it out there's a bunch of courses you can take it's just it's a really
[02:36:38] powerful platform check out extreme ownership dot com if you want to help in your life look it's not
[02:36:43] like oh you're a leader and you're in charge of 1400 people or you're a leader you're in charge of
[02:36:47] seven people you don't have to be in charge of it you're in charge of your own life and if you want to learn
[02:36:53] about how to better lead your own life go to extremotership dot com yeah I feel like and this might
[02:36:59] be just me could be everybody but I feel like when you hear the word leader it kind of comes from
[02:37:03] when you're a kid and it's like follow the leader like me the boss everyone follow me kind of a thing
[02:37:11] physically like actually literally follow me whatever but as it turns out
[02:37:16] it's like essentially the ability to make the right calls and the right decision in every situation
[02:37:22] even if you're by yourself by the way yeah yeah so yeah it's like it's almost like
[02:37:28] leader might not even be the most act as word to say it that'll land on your brain the way
[02:37:35] the reality is almost like learn how to live your life in the best possible way yeah
[02:37:42] check so if you want to live your life in the best possible way you want to learn how to make decisions
[02:37:49] what decisions to make because that's where your life is it's here's the decisions how you do
[02:37:52] and how you mitigating risk how are you figuring out where to take chances how are you figuring out
[02:37:57] where you need to reinforce certain parts of your life how are you figuring out how you're going to
[02:38:00] interact with this person that has a huge part in your life whether you want them to or not all kinds
[02:38:05] of things to learn that's all extreme ownership dot com if you want to help service members
[02:38:09] active and retired their families gold star families everybody that has served you want to help
[02:38:15] them go to marklies mom on the least he's got an incredible charity organization if you want to
[02:38:19] donate or you want to get involved go to america's mighty warriors dot org also don't forget about
[02:38:24] horses and heroes no heroes and horses i was get that one backwards the horses come first in my
[02:38:31] mind the hero should come first heroes and horses dot com micro thank you an awesome stuff with
[02:38:37] his charity organization echo and i if you want to hear more from us then you can go on the social
[02:38:43] media of course surge in general warning watch out for the aglorism because it's getting ready
[02:38:50] grab you by the trope and try and drag you in there echoes at aquatrol's i am a joccal
[02:38:55] willing and thanks once again to joe larry and fill for your service in sacrifice and thanks to
[02:39:03] all the sailors of the us s liberty especially those 34 brave souls who sacrificed their lives
[02:39:14] for their shipmates and thanks to all the rest of the sailors out there from the world's finest navy
[02:39:22] that are on the high seas 365 days a year protecting the cause of freedom around the world
[02:39:28] and thanks to the rest of our military that fights on the land and in the air to protect our
[02:39:35] way of life and also to our police and law enforcement fire fighters paramedics entese dispatchers
[02:39:42] correction officers board patrol secret service all first responders who protect us here at home thank
[02:39:48] you for what you do and everyone else you never know what you're going to run into you never
[02:39:57] know what's going to happen you never know who is going to attack you and these guys talked about it
[02:40:03] today they were prepared they were ready they were vigilant so when something unfolds you are
[02:40:12] prepared like they were to behave like they did the brave sailors of the us s liberty and don't
[02:40:19] ever give up and until next time the zeco and jocco out