Jocko Podcast 321: Set a Goal, and Just Get After It. With Retired SEAL, Chris Gifford.

2022-02-19T09:52:58Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @TakingLeave_RV @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:03:06 - Chris Gifford. 2:56:33 - Final thoughts. 3:09:39 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Jocko Store Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com Jocko Fuel: https://jockofuel.com Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Echelon Front: https://www.echelonfront.com 3:34:07 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

And then so like I'm trying to imagine, you know, like every time everyone talks like when they tell their story, I always try to kind of put myself like, I want to know how they were, you know, like what they looked like. And I, and I, and I talked to him before I left us, like, you know, what do you think it, you know, can I just go to another gym and, and, and he said yes, but what I found, especially with COVID, it's tough to kind of show up for just a couple of weeks and, you know, nobody knows where you've been and, you know, I think the light gyms is just like this, because it's such close contact, that, you know, they kind of stay in their own. my mom worked Later on she got remarried they owned a body shop so they ran that and then my father was in Not too far away in Louisville and he ran his own business did kind of answering service for people who I did Inspection's house inspection so they would call him he would set up the appointments and and then just Facts the appointments to them But who was more influential to me was probably my my best friends family and he was Mr. Hollywood great guy Still is today, but he was retired or not retired but he was in Vietnam In the army and just you know kind of an outdoors type person and was Real instrumental in helping you know me kind of Get into that outdoor you know not staying inside getting out and and being in nature more a big hunter Had a lot of Guns and stuff which made me more comfortable around it and all this stuff made a big difference later on because you have being from Kentucky going to San Diego was it was a big change And whether you know they they're like I'm not ready to class up so you know maybe they wouldn't do as many of the Pro's just because you had orders there It costs way too much to send you someplace else so if you kind of You know you could you could stay in fourth phase for months You know maybe even a year but too too long but your clock doesn't start until you class up because Yeah a lot of people think and I I did You know before I found out that you know, but it's kind of like boot camp where you're there I'm all the time, but it's not you know you you have a schedule You show up for the schedule when you're done for the day you're done and we can't you're done so we lived out in town And where'd you guys live down in I be? We we set up the great antennas because we had all this time to set them up because we weren't sleeping And we make all of our com windows we make good communications on all those com windows and we end up as the number one Parent and the number one pair gets the early extract meaning when everyone had to stay in like The full day or the extra night or whatever We get pulled out of the field early as the number one pair two freaking meatball new guys We get pulled out of the field early and Here's a here's an awesome thing and I don't know if I don't know if you know this but that chief Called And we're all kind of going into the departments I was like I want to go into the comms department and because nobody else wanted it because carrying the radio was heavy and People had this kind of idea that comms was Just a mysterious magic thing when when it worked It was pfm you know pure fucking magic when it didn't well, you know God's weren't aligned, you know that Yeah, I, you know, I attribute that to, uh, really to you, Jaco, it, you know, listen as podcasts when my favorite things when you have guys from, you know, World War II, Korea, the, you know, the Vietnam and just the stories that they telling everybody's got a story. I go I go what I got to understand what he was doing like I'm falling by the way It was this mean like are you're freaking up a different position on the boat you're gonna you're gonna paddle from over here I didn't know what the fucking talking about and so I think I literally said like what are you talking about? But I mean we we We understood it we we had The skill down and there was nobody could touch us and you probably remember the guy who taught comms and training self at the time He was not a family Me you hated you hated me you were quiet enough to be like going to the radar I was like that's actually wrong 19 year old jockel is a handful When you're as cute and he was doing his conglies He was just all over the place and I remember specifically the Zulu time to remember that What he was trying to explain in developing a comms plan that all times are in Zulu and why it's in Zulu But his terminology wasn't quite correct and He was saying that Zulu time is so many hours Back or something and you were like no Zulu time is Or, you know, you're, you're new, you know, the new song or whatever, you got to get that, that fan, you know, down the, the funnel to, to get them from interested to fan to real fanatic of, you know, the super fan, or they're going to buy your stuff as soon as it comes out. Yeah, it might be what you remember it might have been a I don't know if it's a DOR or if it's a performance I don't need there, but again, but that it was kind of another realization of You know, you don't know who's gonna make it through do you remember how many people we classed up with so the number that I Remember and I don't have any real evidence to this it was about 116 or some somewhere a little for 100 really and I'm like 71 fail You got such an asshole I feel bad dude, you know, but at the time you and also at that time it was like you didn't know who is making it you didn't and then you get to the top you flip through the side and you drop down I do not remember that this is one of the few things I remember for the thoughts is this evolution right here And watching that guy his forms gave out his forms got it because he couldn't he couldn't pull himself up the rope and You know Guys were kind of passing him through and he spent he spent the whole evolution on that wall and We're you know the students that were done were over there Charney mom the instructors were chairman and they were like get over the wall get over the wall And, you know, there's, there's no way to force, you know, reason to force it on them, you know, I kind of explained to him, you know, this is what we're looking for. And that's like a theme throughout all the, you know, that in fact, like later on, that's like why he like ruined the story. Because, you know, they were going out for, you know, public things and, you know, when there's a threat, they want to know about it. and I just remember He kind of commanded Everything even though he wasn't the guy in charge, but he spoke the language and you know kind of going back to You know you want you want to be an asset and To be a calm guy you're always gonna go because you have the radio what if you're a linguist that that too and this was the 90s so at the time The administrators I think it was built-in administration And, at that time, you know, I didn't know what it has for, you know, you know, tell me about the war. You know, like, hey, when somebody tells you something, and well, you know, he's like, okay, yeah, absolutely. Just like even like the guns thing, like you know, how does those kind of certification just have more capability overall? Or we like what took us that way like let's separate them so we separate them and we're like freaking Who's sure we're like freaking too Sherlock Holmes up in this piece right here? And we weren't really driving, like, you know, like, we were later, you know, definitely what you guys were doing later. It was, I was something in turn, I never really asked, you know, my, when I showed up to the platoon, my thing was, uh, you know, I'm just here to, to do what I can to make the platoon better, you know, where we're going to Afghanistan. So we go to like this, uh, barrier position, you know, we're kind of on the edge as a, uh, as a, you know, blocking position. I mean sometimes sometimes you get that you just get the the bad draw and especially on pool comp You know if you got it somebody who's kind of watching force You know, it's like did you do 71 I'll teach you and he did he took me out and taught me how to dive Under the water and like hell and just get through and That was kind of my first experience of this is this is what a team does you know when somebody has an issue a buddy who has a little bit of knowledge says hey, you know I can help you out It was like, okay, so the last time I jumped with the last time I went and I hadn't jumped for like a long time, probably like eight years, maybe. And, of course, I ran a lot outside of, uh, just track, but, uh, but, yeah, like today, uh, another thing I try to do as we, as we travel, I, I look for great runs, you know, running, running places. And finally they started making some modern boots that will now were Comparable to the boots so now we go to SQT Which was awesome we had great instructors in there great instructors teach us the fundamentals we were kind we we got It was almost like our generation of instructors those guys were like a one degree of separation from Vietnam For the vast majority of our instructor it was I also think it was important that The training was still at the team at the time there's less of that subjectivity When we went through it was it was very subjective and in many cases that was the right thing Because a team guy and structures looking at a guy saying I don't really want this guy and I'll tune with me Which is the ultimate test Now there's a great trick that one of the master chiefs played on the instructors at one point one of the master chiefs who you know, but He he was running buds and he brought all the instructors into a room and was said, you know, And, and I remember he told me, you know, if you live on base, I will come out there and punch you because he's like, you need to get out and town, live amongst the, uh, the populace, the populace and experience living overseas like you should. hey I do things you know we should we should make this You know make sure it's hard as it can be and set the standards and everyone's like yeah I mean, we were doing like long patrols, like week long, you know, eight days, nine days with resupplys, that kind of stuff. I didn't know him at the time and you know I think you had to do 75 sit ups or something like this and And it was a straw it was kind of hard to get the I don't know if you remember this the hardest thing about getting it Actually approved was the amount of batteries it was gonna take the 5590 batteries that cost $64 each or something like this and we're gonna have to out fit 20 guys or whatever it was and our initial answer was no No, you you can't have money for those batteries use the rechargeable batteries which were the B-A what were they called B-A 55 something else like oh, I'm not gonna quit that that does happen guys just not gonna quit They're just tough, but they don't belong in the teams and they could they would get rid of that guy But occasion you get a guy like that officer who was a good guy, but I mean we did we and but when I graduated and got commissioned as an incident They could have sent me to you know To swoke school like it is you know you could be a pilot you could be whatever And I had that too, like, even, even literally when I got to Baghdad, my first platoon, I was like, the, the, the, the, the SAA, who's a freaking, like, awesome guy. I wasn't so I had when I accepted It was and it was part of the interview process like well, what if you don't come back to the teams because at the time You know again this is the 90s late 90s You know they they didn't have that that that You Opening And, you know, I like to think that we, you know, move the needle, hopefully a little bit. But, there was a lot of, you know, if we do really well, then, you know, we'll get move over to here, some I will get fired, and, you know, we'll, we'll be able to take that mission. You know low mode they were like hey, I'll keep about I'm gonna do what I'm just gonna make cause it was a scary place In the 90s at team one as a new guy it was there was much different there was there was There was scenarios I could unfold really quickly if you were out of line as a new guy and Your platoon had definitely had some bruzers in it. But in such different ways, like if you talk to, you know, you say like, maybe seals don't have a stereotype where they, you think they have a stereotype. Like, what is marketing and what is, you know, social media was a big, you know, was starting to be a big thing. You know, I had a lot to learn of, you know, you're not, you know, the E6, any more.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 321 with echo Charles and me jockel will link good evening
[00:00:05] I got it evening
[00:00:07] so
[00:00:09] It's cold
[00:00:12] wet dark I
[00:00:15] Been awake for a few days
[00:00:18] 19 years old it's hell week
[00:00:22] It's kind of crazy
[00:00:24] But I haven't found a bunch of people have quit and
[00:00:30] You do you have no idea who's going to quit
[00:00:35] My boat my boat crew leader quit who he was a prior-quitter so he had been
[00:00:40] Already been to Buds
[00:00:42] Bend to the fleet realize he didn't want to be in the fleet gone gone through the whole administrative regga marole to get back to Buds
[00:00:50] And he just quit
[00:00:52] watching people quit
[00:00:56] Is crazy they quit so fast you can't keep track of it. It's just it's just a mass
[00:01:01] Exodus and so what happens is your boat crew you're in a boat crew of six or seven guys organized by height
[00:01:08] Because you need to be roughly the same height to carry a boat on your head or a log on your shoulder if you got six or seven guys
[00:01:15] You gotta be around the same height so you're organized by height so as people quit
[00:01:18] You get less and less boat crews you keep lining up to a just who's in your boat crew
[00:01:26] But by
[00:01:28] By late Tuesday night or early Wednesday morning things start to settle down meaning
[00:01:34] Most of the people that are going to quit have quit
[00:01:38] And so nice you who's left and it's again
[00:01:42] You have no idea who is gonna quit and you got all kinds of different people tall
[00:01:46] Short stocky lean smart
[00:01:51] Some not so smart some introverts some extra votes. There's no stereotype. There's no stereotype. There's no stereotype
[00:01:58] There might be a public stereotype of what is heels, but it doesn't exist and actually in the seal teams
[00:02:04] You have no idea who's gonna make it only the big frog man in the sky knows who's gonna be a frog man down here on earth in my boat crew
[00:02:13] End up with some solid guys
[00:02:15] One of them is a quiet fellow from Kentucky and he's holding strong
[00:02:21] His name is Chris Gifford
[00:02:25] steady as a rock
[00:02:28] calm
[00:02:29] Stoic
[00:02:31] Solid
[00:02:33] And we kept battling
[00:02:35] And we made it through hell week and we both eventually got assigned to seal team one and
[00:02:40] And ended up having some pretty cool experiences together
[00:02:46] And he ended up with a career as a seal like me and a ton of lessons learned along the way and it's an honor to have him here
[00:02:54] With us tonight to talk about his experiences and share some of those lessons learned Chris
[00:03:00] Good to see you man. You too. Thanks for coming by. Thank you so much. This is a
[00:03:04] A bit surreal because I'm a big fan of the show and just to be here with with you and and Echo and and I talk about this stuff
[00:03:12] This is it's awesome. So thank you. Thank you for having me
[00:03:15] We're gonna get into Buds because I don't remember a lot of Buds and so I'm hoping you can fill in some holes along the way
[00:03:24] But before we get there
[00:03:26] Let's start out the beginning. What's started about where you came from?
[00:03:29] Yeah, so I grew up in Kentucky and Lexington which is you know kind of a college town and
[00:03:38] It was a
[00:03:41] Great place to grow up and it's still a great place today, but
[00:03:45] When I was in high school
[00:03:47] I wanted to leave. I was I was ready to leave. What would would your mom and dad do so my parents were divorced?
[00:03:54] my mom worked
[00:03:56] Later on she got remarried they owned a body shop so they ran that and then my father was in
[00:04:08] Not too far away in Louisville and he ran his own business
[00:04:13] did
[00:04:15] kind of answering service for people who I did
[00:04:19] Inspection's house inspection so they would call him he would set up the appointments and and then just
[00:04:27] Facts the appointments to them
[00:04:29] But who was more influential to me was probably my my best friends family and he was
[00:04:37] Mr. Hollywood great guy
[00:04:40] Still is today, but he was retired or not retired but he was in Vietnam
[00:04:45] In the army and just you know kind of an outdoors type person and
[00:04:52] was
[00:04:53] Real instrumental in helping you know me kind of
[00:04:58] Get into that outdoor you know not staying inside getting out and and being in nature more a big hunter
[00:05:09] Had a lot of
[00:05:11] Guns and stuff which made me more comfortable around it and all this stuff made a big difference later on
[00:05:16] because you have being from Kentucky
[00:05:19] going to
[00:05:20] San Diego was it was a big change and I was pretty
[00:05:24] I've been early that I would have now if I remember right you did you or what you an electrician or something?
[00:05:31] yeah, so the as I was
[00:05:35] wanting to go into the military
[00:05:37] When I was 14 my best friend and I went to golf port, Mississippi to visit his uncle who was a
[00:05:47] CB chief and
[00:05:49] We spent a week there with him
[00:05:53] And he was great he took us to the base kind of exposed us to all that and that's when I was like yeah
[00:05:58] I think the Navy's a good way to get out of Kentucky. It's a good
[00:06:01] You know good environment this is the type of culture I want to be in and
[00:06:08] My best friend and I at the time were also
[00:06:13] Dive qualified so we had already been through like the patty open water
[00:06:17] He was my friend was big into that and so we kind of that was our hobby
[00:06:22] So we go down and golf port, Mississippi and
[00:06:26] He takes us around and he said you know if you like
[00:06:29] Scooby-Diving you might want to look at the the seal teams and
[00:06:33] Where are the silt teams so he had the all hands magazine which was about the end so this is mid 80
[00:06:39] Which is the only information that that was out at the time and
[00:06:43] We looked through it and it's like yeah, this the sounds cool. This is I think this would be good
[00:06:49] So we try to do my friend. I try to do as much research as we could and
[00:06:53] And we kind of determined that and you know and now in the Navy you'll call it a POA and am you kind of set up these milestones on how to get to to the target to go
[00:07:07] And I knew that at the time in order to
[00:07:13] Go to Buds and be a seal you first had to go to an A school
[00:07:17] So my thinking was okay if I got to do a trade and they had a list of the
[00:07:23] Different different source ratings that you could be to a to go to Buds
[00:07:29] I figured if I could learn this early then
[00:07:34] When I was in A school I could work out for and I could focus on going to Buds
[00:07:38] So my high school had a program to go to vocational school half of the day
[00:07:45] So the first half you did your whatever required courses math English whatever
[00:07:50] And then the second half you left the campus went to a vocational school and you studied a trade and
[00:07:56] I chose electricity just because a lot of my family were in construction
[00:08:03] It was I would spend some summers working for my uncle says a plumber and I knew I didn't want to do that
[00:08:09] So electrical work was a lot easier well that wasn't easier but it was
[00:08:12] Cleaner cleaner yeah, I wasn't you know, it's keeping shut so it was
[00:08:19] I chose yeah electrical work and
[00:08:22] With the whole intent of just learning that
[00:08:26] So when I got to A school I didn't have to study as hard
[00:08:29] I could just go to the gym every night. What was in the all hands magazine?
[00:08:33] You know it just had just cool pictures but it kind of outlined you know this what you have to do to
[00:08:43] To go to Buds you I have to have so many pull ups so it's the time's on your runs your swims
[00:08:52] They talked about the source rating so it was all about just kind of how to get into a very little was about what they actually did
[00:08:58] Did you read any books like the
[00:09:00] There's a couple books that predated you and I go in the military going in the Navy
[00:09:07] Did you read any of those I didn't read any of them? No no I
[00:09:10] When I was in high school I was a mediocre student at best. I knew to join the Navy all I had to do was
[00:09:17] Was graduate with with a three point see and that's all
[00:09:21] I did did you do any athletics I did I was a runner and I ran distance and that was because I was you know
[00:09:30] Like I am now but you know very thin long legs and
[00:09:34] I think it was like 135 at the times what's distance so kind of distances so for track was to the two mile or
[00:09:43] Yeah, there's the two mile run the one mile run and the half mile or eight eighty
[00:09:48] So my high school it was mostly all sprinters and there were very few distance runners
[00:09:55] So it was good that
[00:09:57] The coach kind of left us alone and that's that's all I did was just go in and run
[00:10:04] miles and miles every day and so that that was
[00:10:09] kind of my strong point I did swim but
[00:10:12] I didn't do the type of swimming that I probably did to be competitive
[00:10:18] You know I think around my group of friends I was probably a very good swimmer and I think
[00:10:24] Compared to the general population today you were a good swimmer amongst your nine friends and move
[00:10:29] Oh Kentucky yeah
[00:10:31] So but running was running was was definitely my strong point so
[00:10:37] You get in the Navy what when you show up to buds
[00:10:40] What what was your thoughts when you when you showed up to buds?
[00:10:45] Well, I think
[00:10:47] By that time I felt pretty comfortable with with what
[00:10:52] How we were our how Buds went and a lot of that was because my best friend again
[00:10:57] We both wanted to go in the teams together, but he was a year ahead of me
[00:11:01] So he actually joined the Navy
[00:11:03] One year ahead and so he was kind of communicating with me how things were going and
[00:11:09] And when I was in a school
[00:11:13] I actually was here in San Diego so on the weekends
[00:11:16] I would take the bus over to Coronado
[00:11:19] Meet him and and you hang out with him and kind of get some inside
[00:11:24] But before that did he make it he did he did yeah, yeah, yeah, what's he what's he gonna go he went to STVs
[00:11:30] yeah, and
[00:11:32] that was
[00:11:34] He did one tour there and then he got out one into the police force and had it
[00:11:40] Still has a great career doing that so you had a good heads up as to what you're gonna be facing when you got to buds
[00:11:45] I did and that year while he was gone
[00:11:48] I was just so focused on what I needed to do and I think one of the issues that I had
[00:11:56] Get out was a good runner a decent swimmer, but I'd never lifted weights before and I
[00:12:01] Didn't even know where to start or
[00:12:03] Or definitely I would have hurt myself so I went to the YMCA and I met a
[00:12:14] Former Kentucky football star Cisco Bryant coach Bryant and just
[00:12:20] Winning and said look and again 135 pounds 16 years old
[00:12:25] I said I want to be a seal and he's like huh and
[00:12:29] And I said you know here's my strong points, but I don't have any weight training or anything and he
[00:12:37] Mintered me for that year. I would go you know every day that I could and
[00:12:42] He worked with me and if anything he kept me from getting hurt which I think a lot of
[00:12:48] Kids trying to go today, you know, they they just push it too hard and get hurt before they even go
[00:12:53] But but he was he was a good mentor to me and got me kind of that
[00:12:58] More comfortable with my body my weight and to be able to handle that so I felt pretty good
[00:13:05] Going to buds that and you were good on pull ups pushups dips
[00:13:08] Yeah, and he's and rope climbs and all that yeah, yeah, he's the one who kind of worked with me on that and put me on a good program to
[00:13:17] To be able to at least again make make the markers and you know back then
[00:13:22] Not a lot of people knew about them buds so really all you had to do was you know meet meet the minimum you weren't
[00:13:31] Trying to outperform at that time and I remember doing one of the
[00:13:36] Test I think it was the test right before you class up
[00:13:39] You know they were like I ate pull ups and you know they're trying to get everybody through once you did your age or like I hop down next
[00:13:46] And they were just trying to finish the name and care. Yeah, you know
[00:13:48] It was just trying to yeah if you were ready to class up and you met the test then you were ready to go
[00:13:53] They weren't not really competing. I got a confession to make
[00:13:58] He just maybe think of this and I and I feel like a
[00:14:03] Dick so
[00:14:05] There was a guy remember we had to do that class up test and
[00:14:08] You you count your buddies reps and
[00:14:11] And my buddy who I know exactly who it is because he ended up making it on sit ups
[00:14:18] He didn't he was shy the number I didn't know him at the time and you know
[00:14:24] I think you had to do 75 sit ups or something like this and he did like 68
[00:14:30] Maybe he even did like 72 like for time or something you have two minutes. Okay, you have to do it's run
[00:14:36] swim or it's actually swim run pull ups
[00:14:39] Sit ups push ups something like that good minimum numbers like you said Chris
[00:14:45] That the minimum for Paul so it was like eight yeah, but that's it you do eight okay
[00:14:49] You're good you're going in the class this guy who who I end up I know him like later on
[00:14:55] I know him he's a great guy is a good guy is a great team guy blah blah blah blah
[00:14:58] He did like 70 shy of the sit ups and instructor came over like what was his number and I'm like
[00:15:05] 71 fail
[00:15:07] You got such an asshole
[00:15:10] I feel bad dude, you know, but at the time you and also at that time it was like you didn't know who is making it you didn't and
[00:15:19] I don't think we had really had that attitude because I think you get into an attitude of the class
[00:15:23] Like you got to help your friends out like help your buddy and we weren't there yet because we were just hey
[00:15:27] Are we gonna class up and so I just and I also have like a
[00:15:31] cold blooded streak of honesty and it's hard for me to lie about shit
[00:15:35] And I actually had one person double on time you're incapable of lying like probably pretty close
[00:15:40] So the instructor asked me about 71 they're like fail cool. Sorry bro
[00:15:46] Yeah, well that yeah that reminds me of when I first got two buds so I think when I got there
[00:15:54] The class before it's just classed up so everyone that was waiting in that fourth phase or whatever that pre-training phase
[00:15:59] They had all left for the class so there was but there was a handful of people that were kind of hanging around and there was kind of a
[00:16:07] There were a couple of people that kind of felt that stayed in that limbo at pergatory for way too long
[00:16:14] And whether you know they they're like I'm not ready to class up so you know maybe they wouldn't do as many of the
[00:16:21] Pro's just because you had orders there
[00:16:23] It costs way too much to send you someplace else so if you kind of
[00:16:28] You know you could you could stay in fourth phase for months
[00:16:32] You know maybe even a year but too too long but your clock doesn't start until you class up
[00:16:38] So there's really no reason to stay in fourth phase and
[00:16:42] Because you're you're just never gonna go anywhere so
[00:16:45] But but I show up and there's not a whole lot of people there and
[00:16:50] I get a room and meet my roommate and up being my swim buddy great guy and
[00:16:56] And it was like a Friday. It was the first day or first day I had just gotten all my uniforms and I and they would have a schedule
[00:17:05] so
[00:17:06] You're around the other the actual classes, but they would meet at morning for PT and they would do something
[00:17:13] But then they'd say okay come back on the beach and we're just gonna do
[00:17:17] Surf passage and just practice going in out the water. There's no time. There's no limit nobody's watching you
[00:17:22] It's just just you just go out and do it or you know
[00:17:25] We're gonna do a run or go to the pool or something so this day there they're they're doing surf passage and this was
[00:17:32] I guess it was March so the waves were were pretty good there and
[00:17:38] So being from Kentucky didn't grow up around the ocean. I wasn't you know surf or anything
[00:17:43] I got my ass hammered you know we had those duck feet that they're weighed a ton and
[00:17:50] Yeah, I put them on and get out in the waves. I get knocked down
[00:17:54] I get up. I'm trying to swim out and I'm trying to swim over the waves and I'm just getting push push right back into the
[00:18:02] To the beach and this happened you know it was the whole time
[00:18:05] So the two hours of whatever you're doing it and I get back to the room that I am like
[00:18:10] How can I be a seal if I can even get through the surf zone? This is ridiculous
[00:18:15] So I talked to my roommate who was I think he was from California or from a coastal state
[00:18:20] He's like dude no worry about what we'll go out this weekend. I'll teach you and he did he took me out and taught me how to dive
[00:18:27] Under the water and like hell and just get through and
[00:18:31] That was kind of my first experience of this is this is what a team does you know when somebody has an issue
[00:18:38] a buddy who has a little bit of knowledge says hey, you know
[00:18:41] I can help you out
[00:18:43] You didn't get the introduction of the teams from me
[00:18:46] Your stroke and your sit-ups. I cut into that dude
[00:18:51] So you and I you and I brought what are you six feet?
[00:18:57] 11 yeah, so I'm 5 11 too because I remember we got we got linked up together pretty quick because we're literally the same height and
[00:19:07] That means even and I don't know if we do we mess with boats and stuff in fourth phase. I don't think we did if if
[00:19:13] Anything it was just kind of an introductory thing like here's how you put on your head
[00:19:18] Here's how we looked it up, but it was mostly it was just kind of PT type stuff physical just general training and then
[00:19:26] Then we roll into
[00:19:28] first phase
[00:19:30] Would you think of that?
[00:19:32] You know again, I was kind of a small guy, but I didn't require a lot of maintenance
[00:19:38] Which was nice because you low maintenance because the big guys I remember
[00:19:42] Being on the O course is was right at the beginning
[00:19:45] I don't if you remember this, but we had a big guy
[00:19:48] Exactly talking about and he was awesome. I mean and he was a good guy every loved him
[00:19:54] Everyone loved him. He was a good runner. He was awesome swimmer. I think it was a collegiate swimmer and
[00:19:59] just but he was you know what you would think a seal look like and we're on the O course and
[00:20:07] You know we were all lined up and you everyone just kind of goes and it wasn't like a time thing
[00:20:12] You know you just did the did the loop a couple of times just to practice you know you that your techniques
[00:20:19] And I remember this guy got to like the third obstacle which was the high-o the high wall
[00:20:25] So it's a wall that's probably
[00:20:28] 12 feet tall and there's a rope on it and you climb the rope like Batman
[00:20:33] You know you hold the rope and you put your feet on the wall. You kind of walk up the wall
[00:20:37] You and then you get to the top you flip through the side and you drop down
[00:20:39] I do not remember that this is one of the few things I remember for the thoughts is this evolution right here
[00:20:44] And watching that guy his forms gave out his forms got it because he couldn't he couldn't pull himself up the rope and
[00:20:51] You know
[00:20:52] Guys were kind of passing him through and he spent he spent the whole evolution on that wall and
[00:20:59] We're you know the students that were done were over there
[00:21:03] Charney mom the instructors were chairman and they were like get over the wall get over the wall and
[00:21:10] But he never made it over the wall and they they dropped him
[00:21:14] Performance dropped so oh that was a performance drop I think so but now that yeah
[00:21:19] Yeah, it might be what you remember it might have been a I don't know if it's a DOR or if it's a performance
[00:21:23] I don't need there, but again, but that it was kind of another realization of
[00:21:27] You know, you don't know who's gonna make it through do you remember how many people we classed up with so the number that I
[00:21:34] Remember and I don't have any real evidence to this it was about
[00:21:39] 116 or some somewhere a little for 100 really
[00:21:42] That's what I remember but yeah, who knows I don't remember much
[00:21:48] I remember losing a guy in the on the first PT of the first day and we are on the grinder
[00:21:54] Yeah, they're posing a stone and we got wet a couple of times and he turned his ankle or at least
[00:22:03] And he did
[00:22:07] And they're like yeah, of course yelling I mean it's the first day of butts and they were yelling at him and he you know when over and
[00:22:15] Inquit, but
[00:22:17] Yeah, I remember losing and then we we lost people for performance
[00:22:22] I don't think he was safety you know a couple of weeks before graduation
[00:22:25] We're on the island, but but you know you mentioned at the opening about the
[00:22:30] About the Bokeh leader and I remember that like it was yesterday
[00:22:35] We it was we're getting ready to do
[00:22:38] night rock ported rock ported
[00:22:40] Yeah, and they bring everybody into the
[00:22:44] Into the classroom to give us the brief and it was looking bad out there
[00:22:48] So this you know is probably April May you know the winds were high the waves were we're going up
[00:22:54] And we we're just kind of sitting in there. You can hear the wind howling outside
[00:22:58] And one of the instructors comes in he's like oh man this this is gonna be this gonna be ugly
[00:23:03] And this was before they had guys wear helmets right because it's easier now
[00:23:07] But they all they're like you know make sure you're wearing your head your hat
[00:23:12] So if your head matches against rock it'll
[00:23:14] Your brains and it'll soak up the blood and they're just going on so they come in give the brief and it's yeah
[00:23:22] It's looking bad out there. Yeah, they're just they're just talking it up and like I
[00:23:26] Get to your boats so we all run outside and we add people quick just bang bang bang
[00:23:31] And I remember this the way I remember
[00:23:35] Our boat crew leader comes up and goes who's the next in charge and
[00:23:38] It was one one of the other guys and
[00:23:40] And he hands him his paddle and he goes I'm fallen by the waist. Yep, that's the exact quote
[00:23:46] That's the exact quote. I see exact quote that that dude said and I remember you you guys were good friends
[00:23:52] I think I was his roommate
[00:23:54] I was almost a positive house was roommate and
[00:23:57] You know we were all at first friend. Come on man. You know stay in there stay in there at first I go
[00:24:02] I go what I got to understand what he was doing like I'm falling by the way
[00:24:06] It was this mean like are you're freaking up a different position on the boat you're gonna you're gonna paddle from over here
[00:24:10] I didn't know what the fucking talking about and so I think I literally said like what are you talking about?
[00:24:16] What are you trying to say yeah? Yeah, and and we were all kind of like
[00:24:21] And then Jaco terms and like all right see you later and just walked off
[00:24:25] We're all looking at like
[00:24:27] See you later
[00:24:28] Walked off and yeah, and the evolution wasn't that bad. Well, not bad
[00:24:33] What do that you got sucked in he freaking rang out we also had another guy that was a stud
[00:24:40] That was like all the instructors loved him. He was kind of a jacked guy
[00:24:44] He was from the northeast and I remember he quit and it was like
[00:24:50] Dang I mean he was a stud he was doing great at everything. It's just a stud and you're and you're just thinking
[00:24:55] What is wrong with these people?
[00:24:57] Which is a really accused of to everything it's not for everybody the programs not for everybody I understand that it is very here's the strange thing
[00:25:05] you
[00:25:06] You
[00:25:07] Research about this thing this job you enlist in the navy for six years of your life
[00:25:15] You sign the dotted line for six years of your life
[00:25:18] You train you wake up early you swim you do all these things and then first night of a week you just got on the house
[00:25:23] I was wrong a hair mouth
[00:25:25] Like that's a lot of investment for zero return on the return on that investment. Yeah
[00:25:35] Hell week
[00:25:37] Did you remember did you have any hallucinations?
[00:25:40] Yeah, when on the on the long paddles the just kind of seeing stuff in the water
[00:25:47] the
[00:25:48] Some lights and stuff but nothing as bad as some others. Yeah, I saw a couple traffic lights out in the middle of the ocean and I knew I was hallucinating
[00:25:59] I was thinking oh, there's a traffic light, but that's obviously not right because we're in the middle of the ocean
[00:26:03] We all one of the clearest memories I have is one of the guys in our boat crew
[00:26:07] Who's nickname ended up being chat in the teams who is my swim buddy he was your swim buddy. He swore
[00:26:13] He was swearing saying swear words for like a half an hour
[00:26:19] And just remember thinking dude
[00:26:21] This dude is coming up with some creative birds right now
[00:26:25] He was just swearing for like a half an hour. You so mad about everything and he was just
[00:26:31] Dropping F balls man. It was freaking hilarious hilarious. Yeah, yeah, now he would and such a great guy again
[00:26:37] I mean he helped me in so many ways
[00:26:40] Another thing was I was a good swimmer, but swimming in the open ocean was was not my thing
[00:26:49] Farmed boy from Kentucky so but he was good at guiding and
[00:26:56] He helped me a lot of times because when I was guiding I was all over the place and there were
[00:27:02] A couple of times where you know the instructors were counting down you know 30 29 and we're just
[00:27:10] You know doing everything we can to to make the time and
[00:27:16] And again, it was largely due to just my inability to swim swim straight, but
[00:27:23] We never failed anything, but yeah, there was a couple of times
[00:27:26] Yeah, I failed a swim my
[00:27:29] Swim buddy obviously I'm not gonna say his name so we failed a swim and it was a swim that a bunch of
[00:27:34] Paris failed
[00:27:36] So we all lined up now was this like a time yep
[00:27:41] It was a time swim sometime in first phase. It wasn't like a
[00:27:44] Conditioning where they're like all you fail no, but a lot of us failed. Yeah, like there was probably a current or something whatever
[00:27:52] So we fail and this particular who is in our boat crew by the way and you know who it is
[00:27:57] But so we're standing in swim pairs and they're calling us in the first phase office to explain why we failed
[00:28:03] And this guy this guy we walk in and
[00:28:07] The instructors are like
[00:28:09] You know, why do you guys fail and no shit my swim buddy goes willing can't guide
[00:28:16] And the funny thing was I was actually I was actually good at guiding and I wasn't a horrible swimmer and
[00:28:21] And I just couldn't I was in a state of shock and I was like I guess not and what we ended up doing as a class is we split up between
[00:28:29] They gave us to remember the good swimmers so they're like okay, you know willing you suck and
[00:28:34] They put me with another guy and they put the other guy with another guy. Well, I passed the next swim
[00:28:38] He failed the next one because he was slow, but he blamed it on for good oil willing over here
[00:28:44] That was the first that's like the first
[00:28:46] In the first memory I have of somebody just not taking ownership and how totally jacked up the woods and I was thinking even the instructors
[00:28:54] I could see the instructors they
[00:28:57] They didn't look like oh well, what's wrong with you? Well, like they looked at him like oh you're a you're a dirt bag
[00:29:02] They I could feel that from them so
[00:29:06] Oddly enough what did you have was there anything that was hard for you in butts?
[00:29:12] I wouldn't say
[00:29:14] Like hard, but but again, I didn't win anything
[00:29:18] I didn't lose anything. I was right in the middle
[00:29:21] If there was anything that came
[00:29:24] Easier to me was just the running just because I
[00:29:27] Spent so many years running I had and I had the body for it
[00:29:32] That wasn't an issue. I didn't really get I mean I got cold as everyone did but
[00:29:38] But yeah, I
[00:29:40] For dive phase
[00:29:42] Um, I know issues, but I was comfortable in the water. I was already a super cool cop first time. Yeah, I
[00:29:49] Feel book I do remember when we had life saving and and I you know
[00:29:56] I was
[00:29:57] Train life guards so I felt pretty comfortable with that and I got one of the instructors who was
[00:30:04] Of shorter stature
[00:30:06] And I was like okay, well, I should be able to handle this
[00:30:11] I don't know if you had a weight belt on or just whatever, but man, he woke my ass in the pool and
[00:30:17] It was I think it was right before they started grading us and
[00:30:23] It really kind of shook my confidence a little bit and but I I didn't have doing okay, but but yeah
[00:30:31] I mean sometimes sometimes you get that you just get the the bad draw and especially on pool comp
[00:30:37] You know if you got it somebody who's kind of watching force
[00:30:40] You know, it's like did you do 71
[00:30:43] I
[00:30:45] Yeah, I feel pool comp and I didn't even go past the first
[00:30:50] The first thing where they rip your mask off
[00:30:52] He ripped my mask off and he started just doing he started going up getting a breath coming back down knock knock
[00:30:58] I'm a regulator out go up get a breath come back down knock my regulator
[00:31:01] So I didn't get a breath and I was down there for 17 minutes and I just sat there like kept putting it back in kept going to do in the procedures
[00:31:06] And then after 17 minutes he literally did I sat there on my knees
[00:31:11] For 17 minutes and all he did was knock my regulator out come back down knock my regulator out come back down
[00:31:16] And I kept put it back
[00:31:18] I'd get like half a breath boom. It was going again
[00:31:22] So and then after 17 minutes he came back down gave me this gave me the signal to come up
[00:31:27] And I come up and I wasn't even stressed I was like so I come up and he goes you failed
[00:31:32] You didn't look comfortable on there and I was like who y'all instructor and
[00:31:38] Anyways, I had not become in friends with him later in the teams and he's like oh, yeah
[00:31:42] I remember those guys just fucking me there but I was like oh great. You know I
[00:31:46] My life
[00:31:48] So yeah, you get messed with sometimes. That's the way it works. Yeah, yeah, I had never was a buddhist structure
[00:31:54] I don't you know know if that's part of the program or something see how you handle failure
[00:31:59] I don't know but
[00:32:01] Yeah, it's it's kind of a weird dynamic and but that school is you know the way it's run is is phenomenal
[00:32:09] I mean it's a science and they they do they do good work. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. It's a crazy thing
[00:32:15] It's a crazy thing
[00:32:17] because
[00:32:18] You would not think that 80% of the people that show up to that that have enlisted in the military
[00:32:26] That have gone through screening tests that have trained that have told their friends and family. I'm gonna be a seal
[00:32:32] You wouldn't think that 80% of those people in that category would quit you wouldn't think it and they do
[00:32:41] It's some crazy times crazy times all right, so
[00:32:47] We get done
[00:32:48] Sancle man. Well, how many guys we lose the Sancle man out not not too many but there were a couple of guys
[00:32:53] One in particular that was in our boat crew. Oh, yeah, I got a safety violation. Yes, and that's the very guy
[00:33:00] That called me out as being
[00:33:03] Interesting, so I think he was getting tracked the whole time. I do too
[00:33:07] I think he was getting tracked because I think they just thought this guy's not a team player and we don't want him in the teams. It's interesting
[00:33:13] Yeah, I know that. Yeah, that's the very same guy. I'm excited
[00:33:17] We also lost an officer out there. Yeah, and he was a really good guy. He was he was
[00:33:22] Where were we in the same
[00:33:24] boat crew on the island because they moved people around
[00:33:28] Not sure if we were but yeah, he was my officer my
[00:33:32] Platoon element. He wasn't mine. So we were different. I had a different one and he was mine and I remember before we went to the island
[00:33:39] we our
[00:33:41] kind of platoon all met at a pizza place together and
[00:33:47] You know, he talked about what was coming up and
[00:33:50] And I even had our spouses there and stuff. I mean, it was something like you would do and the teams and
[00:33:58] We get out there and they got him on something
[00:34:01] It was so stupid. It was a weapons test. Yeah, not a shoot-in-a-demic
[00:34:06] Like it's like a damage weapon test. There was something going on there
[00:34:10] He made somebody mad or something like that. I think yeah, because I believe I talked to him
[00:34:14] Like soon after that and he kind of indicated that there was some past on the officer
[00:34:22] Side I'm not sure if he was from the gathering or not, but he wasn't he wasn't from the gathering
[00:34:27] Yeah, there was something that something there that that didn't work out and it was unfortunate
[00:34:32] Yes, I mean what little time we were with him. I think he would made an awesome officer. That's the that's the
[00:34:38] Hard part about having a certain level of subjectivity in the training
[00:34:43] Which there's let there is less of it now is yeah, there's less of that subjectivity
[00:34:48] When we went through it was it was very subjective and in many cases that was the right thing
[00:34:54] Because a team guy and structures looking at a guy saying I don't really want this guy and I'll tune with me
[00:34:59] Which is the ultimate test
[00:35:01] Now there's a great trick that one of the master chiefs played on the instructors at one point
[00:35:07] one of the master chiefs who you know, but
[00:35:09] He he was running buds and he brought all the instructors into a room and was said, you know, hey
[00:35:16] I do things you know we should we should make this
[00:35:20] You know make sure it's hard as it can be and set the standards and everyone's like yeah
[00:35:24] Yeah, and say so okay, what about the run times?
[00:35:27] What should we make it guys are chip and down the run times chip and down this one times chip and down all these things and then they get done with this new model of buds
[00:35:34] And then he pulls out a stack of records and it's all the instructor's records and he and he says
[00:35:40] None of you would be in the teams and he was right, you know, you can only be so hard
[00:35:45] So that subjectivity I think it's less now. I believe it's less now
[00:35:50] But it had a benefit and it had some negatives because the benefit is if a guy really didn't block us look you can be a tough guy
[00:35:57] You can just be a knuckle dragger like oh, I'm not gonna quit that that does happen guys just not gonna quit
[00:36:03] They're just tough, but they don't belong in the teams and they could they would get rid of that guy
[00:36:07] But occasion you get a guy like that officer who was a good guy, but I mean we did we we spent a lot of time with him
[00:36:14] And he was a good guy and for whatever reason
[00:36:17] Rub somebody the wrong way and that was that but by yeah
[00:36:23] Freaking rough. I'll be went on to do great things. I'm sure you did. I'm sure you did
[00:36:27] So you and I both get orders to seal team one. Did you request did you request West Coast?
[00:36:32] No, so really so that you fill out your dream sheet. Yeah, which I think is pretty worthless
[00:36:39] But was for you. We're so I dream all day long. She's like team one baby
[00:36:43] It was literally my first choice. Well, I'd be interested see how they how they did the you know the division
[00:36:49] But so my best friend who again I grew up with
[00:36:53] Both always planned to put in for STV. I did I want to go to you
[00:36:57] Me person that put it for us TV so on that so I put you had three choices my first choice
[00:37:04] I think I put like silti made or silti
[00:37:07] You know it was an East Coast team, but my third choice. I will go to STVs on on the East Coast
[00:37:12] Just because that's where I wanted to go. I get silti one. That's crazy
[00:37:18] Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, I'm sure it was just you know needs of the Navy as I've learned throughout my career
[00:37:25] That that you that will come first and I'm sure they had numbers that they needed and I don't again
[00:37:31] I don't know how things got to be because we had almost half our class go to the East Coast
[00:37:36] It was kind of half and half our class. It was kind of half and half almost it was like half of us went to these
[00:37:41] Coast halfes work. Yeah guys go to STVs. Were you married yet? I was I got married right before but
[00:37:48] So I I went home after a school on that leave
[00:37:52] Got married and then went to Buds and then my wife finished college and then she moved out
[00:38:00] to San Diego after she finished. What do you think about coming to San Diego? In the beginning
[00:38:08] It was she didn't want to leave leave
[00:38:11] You know the East Coast because all of our family was there and
[00:38:15] So she's like all right. I'll go to California, but
[00:38:18] Don't ever ask me to go out of the country and
[00:38:23] Of course 15 years later we get orders to Germany and she would have left without me because she wanted to go so bad
[00:38:29] She had a total turn around and
[00:38:32] But we we joke about this all the time because we're still married
[00:38:37] Yeah 31 years
[00:38:39] Impressive, but yeah, yeah, it was she came out San Diego and being married in Buds was kind of interesting because
[00:38:48] Yeah a lot of people think and I I did
[00:38:51] You know before I found out that you know, but it's kind of like boot camp where you're there
[00:38:55] I'm all the time, but it's not you know you you have a schedule
[00:38:58] You show up for the schedule when you're done for the day you're done and we can't you're done so we lived out in town
[00:39:03] And where'd you guys live down in I be?
[00:39:05] And you had a crappy apartment she had a college friend that came out with or so to help with the rent and
[00:39:14] But our room was all guys who lived off base
[00:39:19] So it's a very clean because we weren't living it the beds were always made floors were always wet by come in and
[00:39:27] And actually
[00:39:28] Ty Woods was one of my roommates from from Benghazi
[00:39:32] Who we later died in Benghazi and but yeah, we cuz he lived off base so all the guys that had
[00:39:40] Places off base got a room together and
[00:39:44] So we didn't have to clean it so you clean I didn't leave our base
[00:39:48] I don't think I left basins like even to this day if I can stay at my house
[00:39:54] I I'll say at my house. I don't want to go anywhere. Yeah, there's no one I want to go. There's no one that's like hey
[00:39:58] You want to go to restaurant echoes like hey, we're I'm having the fight to my house tonight
[00:40:01] I'm like cool
[00:40:03] I watch no I'll be watching him too. I'm watching for myself in my house
[00:40:06] I
[00:40:07] When I was like okay, this is my barracks. I was in 602 whatever that bear the barracks 602. I'm in barracks cool. I stayed there
[00:40:13] That's all I did was stay there. I don't think I left I don't think I left base
[00:40:19] In first phase I
[00:40:20] Don't think I maybe I might get I go to subway or something possibly, but knowledge is in there like sharpened my knife
[00:40:26] Didn't have a car didn't have a bike. What are we gonna do?
[00:40:29] I'm gonna sharpen my knife gonna polish my boots gonna clean my room gonna hang out with my other loser
[00:40:33] Roots that are also young and just not doing anything and we're just gonna sit around and have fun
[00:40:38] But yeah that that idea of that people don't understand is that bugs
[00:40:43] You want it when training is over you can go you can go get drunk if you want to
[00:40:49] It's almost a test and it's own right of what you're gonna do and how you're gonna behave and you'll get rolled up eventually or that'll be that
[00:40:55] So you end up getting orders to seal team one
[00:41:00] Did you protest them or you just like oh no
[00:41:04] That's where they want me to go and and I mean again it was like I was the only guy I was with
[00:41:10] 15 16 of my best friend so it's like I love we're going here and and then any we all kind of went to team one
[00:41:16] Right, would it people go to other teams?
[00:41:19] Yeah, so other West Coast teams a couple guys went to five like my
[00:41:23] I
[00:41:25] You went to five a couple guys went to
[00:41:27] STBs. I wasn't I'm not sure what coast they were on but but yeah, we had
[00:41:32] But they were kind of anonymally there was a big grouping a crew of us went to one yeah a crew of us went to one that was what happened yeah
[00:41:42] When when we showed up
[00:41:45] We didn't even you and I went to comm school
[00:41:48] Before we even went through SQT right yeah, so when we showed up at that time
[00:41:54] the
[00:41:55] Training department
[00:41:57] Which was at the team they had
[00:42:00] Of course, they had to train the platoon that were getting ready to go overseas
[00:42:04] So they only did SQT so qualification training at certain times of the year
[00:42:11] And you had to wait till you got people because remember we had people from other class
[00:42:16] Came after us that that went through that training together
[00:42:21] So during that time
[00:42:24] We all went to departments to work and
[00:42:29] Before I joined the Navy I met a the only time I ever met a prior seal
[00:42:35] That gave me any decent information
[00:42:39] It was in Kentucky. I don't remember how I got connected to it. I think it was through my parents because he was
[00:42:43] Had did something with trucking and he met me for breakfast one morning. So
[00:42:50] 17 I think at this time and I'm just asking all the any question that I had and he just you know
[00:42:56] He was very direct frank with me. He was
[00:43:00] You know dispel a lot of the myths like killing the puppy and and yeah literally drowned you yeah
[00:43:06] Yeah, yeah, I'll all the all the stupid stuff and
[00:43:09] he
[00:43:11] gave me like a couple pieces of advice first thing was for for hell week how to get through hell week this was his his
[00:43:18] thought was that
[00:43:21] What gets guys the most is they plan are they they think too far I hit
[00:43:26] They're not focused on the now and
[00:43:29] So they'll you're getting ready to do a run or you know get ready to do rock portage and you're thinking of what's what's gonna happen next week
[00:43:37] And you know on the swim that I'm not very good at
[00:43:40] And they just that gets into this loop and you just end up quitting
[00:43:46] He said don't do that just think about what what are you doing right now? You got to run?
[00:43:50] What do you have to do to prepare?
[00:43:52] Get your boots get your you know gear and and do the run
[00:43:57] What's next a swim?
[00:43:59] Okay, what I need I need my knife. I need my does so just just stay on the now
[00:44:04] And then when that gets too tough then just take it
[00:44:08] You know, I'm gonna get to this next hour and I'm just gonna focus on what I'm doing
[00:44:14] Get through whatever
[00:44:16] It is right now get over this obstacle and then I can move to the next one and and that's what I did that during
[00:44:23] Hellweek you know, it's like what am I doing right now and hellweek is great for that because you don't have to plan
[00:44:29] Oh, you have to do is show up with right gear and and do what they tell you to do for me hell week was a relief because I wasn't worried about failing anything because I was like hey
[00:44:37] I
[00:44:39] I wasn't I had failed a swim like I said because my
[00:44:45] Because we had issues and I I had failed one run
[00:44:50] Because I tried to pace myself and I'm not a fast runner so I was like, oh, you know
[00:44:54] I've passed whatever it was three runs at this point
[00:44:56] So I'm gonna pace myself on this one and I failed a barely failed but I failed so I was always
[00:45:02] Sweating failing stuff and so when hellweek was coming I was like cool
[00:45:07] I can't fail anything bring it and I had fun
[00:45:11] Yeah, I mean I I had fun because I do that I wasn't gonna quit and I was just
[00:45:17] Having a good time so the second piece of advice that gave me came when when when you get to the team
[00:45:25] You need to find the job that nobody wants
[00:45:27] Do it do it well and you'll always have work so when we showed up at sulti one
[00:45:35] And we're all kind of going into the departments
[00:45:38] I was like I want to go into the comms department and because nobody else wanted it because carrying the radio was heavy and
[00:45:47] People had this kind of idea that comms was
[00:45:50] Just a mysterious magic thing when when it worked
[00:45:54] It was pfm you know pure fucking magic when it didn't well, you know
[00:45:59] God's weren't aligned, you know that yeah the moon wasn't aligned that day and
[00:46:04] And I knew that not to be true and if I could you know do that job well then I knew I would always
[00:46:12] Have a job and and back then
[00:46:14] You know if you weren't in a platoon they had you in a department and you know like well today
[00:46:20] It's you know everybody's a shooter or so you just keep rotating out but back then there was no guarantee of that and if they had
[00:46:26] Too many people at the team
[00:46:29] Then if they didn't need you then you did you'd just sat in a department until something else came
[00:46:34] so I wanted to to go into comms and
[00:46:41] When we got to the team
[00:46:44] There was a billet
[00:46:46] Two billets that opened up at the East Coast and comm school and the way I remember it at that time
[00:46:54] You know there was this kind of my belief was there was this real
[00:46:59] East Coast West Coast rivalry and
[00:47:02] None of the older guys at the team wanted to go to the school because that's East Coast. I don't want to go to these ghosts. We do it better here and
[00:47:09] And the I think people in the training were like, you know, you can't teach me anything and we were new guys hadn't even didn't even have our
[00:47:19] Try and you know or even through SKT so we're like we'll go and
[00:47:26] And sure enough they're like okay cool and yeah, they sent us to a to comm school. I had stood quarter deck watch with a
[00:47:35] Post-platoon commander lieutenant who
[00:47:40] We you know, so we this is back when you just sleep on the quarter deck, you know, that will bunk broom
[00:47:44] So we were hanging out you know whatever we got pizza for dinner and I mean this is literally within being of at the team for probably a week
[00:47:53] And he says you know, I'm like, you know, freaking I'm late rockin' off. I think we're going to nom the whole nine yards
[00:48:00] And you know, he he says what you know, what do you what do you're hoping that he's a very cerebral guy?
[00:48:07] Anyways, very nice guy. Is that what you know? What are you looking to do? Look a look at I want to go on ops. I want to be I want to go out there
[00:48:12] And he goes to be hey if you really want to go on operations
[00:48:16] You need to become a comm sky because no one wants to do it and yet every operation
[00:48:23] You want their 100% has to be a comms guy there. You don't necessarily need a sniper
[00:48:28] You don't necessarily need a point man
[00:48:31] You don't necessarily need a machine gunner a rigor you don't necessarily need a rigor you need a coms guy
[00:48:37] And so if you want to go on every operation you go be a comms guy that morning
[00:48:40] I woke up really turned over the watch when right to the comms department said I'm where you call how do you read human?
[00:48:45] So so there you go. That's how I ended up and I remember there was push back from the guy at the east coast
[00:48:52] It said we do in sent me to do guys this is an advanced course of instruction
[00:48:55] You can't send new guys. They're gonna get slaughtered out here
[00:48:57] Yeah, and we just said bring it
[00:49:02] So so we shot that was a freaking great course of instruction. It was phenomenal and you know that was again the start of our career
[00:49:10] And to have that
[00:49:12] That skill and and again when when we get back are got back from from the course
[00:49:19] I'm sure that we had some bit of arrogance about us. I know that might surprise you
[00:49:28] I'm not sure
[00:49:29] But I mean we we
[00:49:33] We understood it we we had
[00:49:37] The skill down and there was nobody could touch us and you probably remember the guy who taught comms and training self at the time
[00:49:46] He was not a family
[00:49:50] Me you hated you hated me you were quiet enough to be like going to the radar
[00:49:55] I was like that's actually wrong
[00:49:59] 19 year old jockel is a handful
[00:50:02] When you're as cute and he was doing his conglies
[00:50:06] He was just all over the place and
[00:50:10] I remember specifically the Zulu time to remember that
[00:50:13] What he was trying to explain in developing a comms plan that all times are in Zulu and why it's in Zulu
[00:50:22] But his terminology wasn't quite correct and
[00:50:26] He was saying that Zulu time is so many hours
[00:50:32] Back or something and you were like no Zulu time is
[00:50:38] And you could see a new guy bro and you can see it in his face
[00:50:42] He's getting kind of ready. He's like no no no what what it means because it was something I had to do with daylight savings
[00:50:48] I mean change and it's it's like it's this off of Zulu and you're like no
[00:50:54] Zulu time the Zulu time
[00:50:57] He's around my life on Zulu time
[00:51:00] So when we went to that course this is the cool thing so we showed up at this course. We're not seals. We're I mean we're new guys
[00:51:05] We don't have our tridents yet. We jump in with a bunch of experienced East Coast guys and
[00:51:10] And actually it was another there was a couple guys from team five out there that we had a poll tune or some
[00:51:15] Poll tune or two under the belts and we just
[00:51:18] Same thing where everyone's lit there they're living in town whatever we're living in the barracks
[00:51:22] We're all we're doing a setting we have to learn more as code you and I are like talking to each other in more as code like we could see
[00:51:28] Theo and our TDD to right
[00:51:32] Studying this stuff we're totally into it. We have no like people think you got graduate from seal training
[00:51:38] You have some kind of tactics for the field. We didn't have any of that we didn't know what we were doing or equipment or or equipment
[00:51:44] Yeah, that's what we didn't have anything
[00:51:45] So the chief at first he was pissed that we got sent out there you sent me these two knucklehead new guys
[00:51:51] But then he realized we were freaking fired up and we want to be like there's not too many seals that are like
[00:51:56] I want to be a radio man. That's what we literally wanted to do so once he realized that
[00:52:01] He was kind of like okay, but then he would kind of test us and one of the tests. He did so that that course
[00:52:08] The end of the course was a
[00:52:11] six or seven day
[00:52:14] In the field FTX and it was around a swamp is around an airfield. That's a swamp. You're in the middle of a swamp
[00:52:23] So this chief that was running the course
[00:52:26] He he he goes well in
[00:52:29] And he says hey if you're hardcore you'll go in the field with nothing but a poncho and a poncho liner
[00:52:37] And I was like what did you say if I'm hardcore?
[00:52:39] Is that what you said?
[00:52:40] Because trust me. I'm juggle out for you hardcore. So you're a poncho and a poncho liner
[00:52:45] That's what okay cool. Yes. I'm hardcore. I'm going to field with a poncho and a poncho liner. What?
[00:52:49] By the way, key component here poncho poncho liner
[00:52:53] No ground pad
[00:52:55] Which is which is insane. Yeah, did you have a ground pad? No, so so you and I are idiots
[00:53:01] We have no ground pad. We have no sleeping bag. We have no bivisac. We go with a poncho and a poncho liner
[00:53:08] And we are wearing wool not the smart wool you get today, but like
[00:53:13] World war two. Yeah, WWE. I I
[00:53:16] I think we even went to
[00:53:19] one of those
[00:53:21] GI Joe stores or whatever and was buying
[00:53:23] Old wool he up to where so
[00:53:28] We go in the field
[00:53:30] When we start get when we draw it when we're driving to the field and now so it's January in Virginia
[00:53:37] February maybe yeah, January January February we're driving to the field on our drive
[00:53:43] It starts raining
[00:53:46] As we start pulling into the area of operations it turns to sleep
[00:53:50] As we're getting out of the vehicles it turns to snow. Yeah, it's for easy
[00:53:57] And I remember as we got out of the vehicle and we start you know our patrol into our first point
[00:54:03] We get to this little creek or
[00:54:07] Actually has water in it and
[00:54:10] Jocco and I look at each other and track on this and he goes you know it only sucks the first time
[00:54:14] Because yeah, you get wet once you're wet. You're not going to get wet once and so we just
[00:54:21] Joe right through it. Yep, it only sucked the first time that first time lasted seven days
[00:54:27] It sucked once for seven straight days
[00:54:30] So we end up so on that course you had we had communications windows that we had to make with
[00:54:36] Stations around the country
[00:54:38] So we're setting up these old school antennas echo trials
[00:54:42] This is where you literally take out pieces of wire and you measure the wire
[00:54:47] To the frequency that you're going to be communicating on and you hang these pieces of wire planned
[00:54:51] Destantly in trees
[00:54:54] And then you make these communications window and we have like a communications window every two to four hours the entire time
[00:55:02] And what happens is if you you're getting graded the whole time and he comes out and checks your
[00:55:07] You know if you've got like what they call if you're out camping so if you've got stuff strewn about
[00:55:11] And you got your sleeping bag out and everything's out of your rucksack
[00:55:15] Then he's going to dock you pointer. He's going to send you on E and E or something like this and if you miss
[00:55:21] Communications windows then that's points against you and how strong your comms is that can be points against your points for you
[00:55:27] So what happens with all the other groups literally every single other group?
[00:55:32] They missed some of their com windows because it's every two to four hours and why did they miss their com windows?
[00:55:37] Because they would fall asleep why would they fall asleep they fell asleep because they got it on a ground pad got into a babysack in a freaking negative
[00:55:44] Zero degree
[00:55:45] Sleeping bag and they just would fall asleep
[00:55:48] We literally could not sleep
[00:55:51] We could not sleep we were we were just stand we were I remember just just sit there looking at you
[00:55:56] We're marching in place
[00:55:58] By a tree
[00:56:00] That's two o'clock in the morning three o'clock in the morning
[00:56:03] We have every piece of clothing that we have on we got a poncho over us and we're marching in place trying to stay warm because we're gonna freeze to death
[00:56:10] We're so key wet it was freaking ridiculous no ground pad
[00:56:16] We don't miss any com windows
[00:56:18] We we set up the great antennas because we had all this time to set them up because we weren't sleeping
[00:56:24] And we make all of our com windows we make good communications on all those com windows and we end up as the number one
[00:56:31] Parent and the number one pair gets the early extract meaning when everyone had to stay in like
[00:56:37] The full day or the extra night or whatever
[00:56:39] We get pulled out of the field early as the number one pair two freaking meatball new guys
[00:56:46] We get pulled out of the field early and
[00:56:48] Here's a here's an awesome thing and I don't know if I don't know if you know this but that chief
[00:56:53] Called yeah the mastery if yeah, he called the master chief of our command and said hey you sent these two knuckleheads out there
[00:56:59] They just graduated the number one pair in the class they're freaking squared away
[00:57:03] You should you should take care of these two guys. They're great seals which was we weren't even seals
[00:57:08] So it was really cool obviously I let it go to my head like hey
[00:57:11] No one can tell me anything about coms the free you don't think cops guys
[00:57:16] Well, I mean if you look at it, it wasn't like we were just a right place at the right time
[00:57:21] And you know we made a good decision that was it. I mean we knew we knew our shit
[00:57:26] Yeah, and there was no one else
[00:57:28] At that team at least that could counter that so yeah, I think we were you know somewhat arrogant
[00:57:35] But again that's what we said out to do we we wanted the hardest job. We were gonna do it well and
[00:57:42] We never had a problem finding work. Yeah, that was that was good times
[00:57:49] So
[00:57:51] Then we go and ask you tea. Yeah, so we go to ask you tea when we get back
[00:57:55] Which we had just been through freaking hell week. I think it might have been harder than hell week
[00:58:01] Well, I came out worse. Oh, that's right that you had significant trench for yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:58:06] To where I have for weeks I was down and I remember like sitting at home. I have a my feet and
[00:58:12] Hot our warm ups and salt and just the pain of that feeling when it when it
[00:58:18] You know comes back to your nerves and and still today. I have nerve damage from that. It's when I retired
[00:58:26] And you go through your your medical screening and yeah, I still have
[00:58:32] Part of from that now I've gotten used to it. It's been been been so long
[00:58:36] But yeah, you had a legitimate case in 1991 or 1992 of World War I trench foot yeah from spending a
[00:58:44] Whatever seven days in the freezing cold with our feet will wet the entire time that's another thing
[00:58:50] We he told us to wear jungle boots
[00:58:52] He's like you you wear it because you wear all these these standards you know
[00:58:56] Danners and these high-speed boots you thought they're gonna get wet and you're you know
[00:58:59] You're they're never gonna dry out and I was like Roger that so what I wear jungle boots. What do you wear jungle?
[00:59:04] It was I
[00:59:05] I actually carried that through my entire career my entire career
[00:59:09] Almost worked jungle boots 90% of the time unless my rule was if there's snow on the ground in insert
[00:59:16] During insert I'll wear something else if there's not snow on the ground
[00:59:20] I'm wearing jungle boots and I did that my whole career because your feet because jungle boots
[00:59:24] They dry out echoed Charles so there's little there's little drainage holes
[00:59:28] So they dry out it might take him a few hours, but if you're wearing a pair of thick insulated boots
[00:59:34] They are not gonna dry out and so I wore jungle boots almost my whole career
[00:59:38] And finally they started making some modern boots that will now were
[00:59:42] Comparable to the boots so now we go to SQT
[00:59:47] Which was awesome we had great instructors in there great instructors teach us the fundamentals we were kind we we got
[00:59:57] It was almost like our generation of instructors those guys were like a one degree of separation from Vietnam
[01:00:02] For the vast majority of our instructor it was I also think it was important that
[01:00:08] The training was still at the team at the time so
[01:00:12] You know these were people that you were gonna be an uplaton with and you know there was a lot
[01:00:18] Especially a salty one. We have the kind of that history of having that ownership and
[01:00:24] Meeting a certain standard and they they really they really pushed that and I think that came out and the training that we got
[01:00:31] During that time, but yeah, these were guys that had been in for and had multiple multiple tunes
[01:00:39] I mean, they just did it over and over and yeah, they had quality quality training
[01:00:43] It seems
[01:00:45] Kind of funny now when I look back on it
[01:00:47] But there was this thing that they would say a team one team one. It's not just a number. It's an attitude and
[01:00:53] They in fact our seniors oftentimes were kind of joking when they said that because you know
[01:00:59] We also had the nickname was stollog tin one because we had uniform inspections and haircut inspections and everything was
[01:01:06] Like more militant
[01:01:08] But I believed it
[01:01:10] I mean I was like yeah, hey, it's not just a number. It's an attitude. Especially young
[01:01:14] Dr. Here's all about that like what number one that means something there's a reason team one
[01:01:20] Of course, so I got a little crazy with that
[01:01:24] But the instructors freaking outstanding
[01:01:26] Um
[01:01:28] And I still I so much of what I learned I learned it then and I fast forward a little bit
[01:01:35] But I always say like 70% of what I learned in the teams
[01:01:39] I learned while we were instructors at training so I'd say a team one absolutely we'll get to that
[01:01:46] So
[01:01:49] We go through that we go through SQT. We had anything any big high points of SQT
[01:01:53] No, it was just again, we were with all the guys from
[01:01:56] But it's a big amount of the road class and just quality quality people and
[01:02:01] Now it was it was a good time the training was good and you know back to the stollog one
[01:02:07] I mean and I consider I'm sure you do too. I mean we grew up at sulti one and just what we learned there
[01:02:14] Set for the rest of the career
[01:02:16] Set your your work ethic your you know the way you see things and the the the community as a whole
[01:02:22] And I'm proud to have been
[01:02:26] At team one and from that period of time. This is the abs phenomenal. Yeah
[01:02:32] I think I remember this time
[01:02:34] Where you you told me you were going on a trip
[01:02:40] And I think you were going on some kind of a trip and team five was also going on a trip
[01:02:44] And remember you tell me you should have seen their palettes
[01:02:48] Like meaning their aircraft out when you build when you're going on a big trip you you load your
[01:02:51] Your your aircraft palettes with all your gear and there's a science to it and there's an art to it too
[01:02:57] Like making all square and way making a way to write making a look good and making a look clean so the air force and
[01:03:02] Spectra will pass you and everything and you should have seen the team five palettes you were disgusted
[01:03:09] I mean if it looks like trash probably flies
[01:03:11] Right
[01:03:17] We get down with SQT and we roll into our first platoon's we're in sister platoon's now we had to be
[01:03:24] Yep because they didn't want to stack the platoon's with
[01:03:27] With with both of us so they and this was a they could great you know strategic decision
[01:03:33] They always had us you and I in different platoon's but I mean we talked every day and I remember
[01:03:38] You know if I did a a complain or something that worked or didn't work or we would get together and debrief about it
[01:03:44] And but yeah, they always kind of kept us kept us separated
[01:03:49] We the primary calm guy in your first platoon no I there was a primary but
[01:03:56] You know it was early on like just just get it done so I had a lot of leeway
[01:04:02] But because you know he was I had other stuff to do but
[01:04:06] But it was pretty pretty clear who was making
[01:04:10] The the compliance and who was keeping the gear and
[01:04:14] But and then from then on yeah, yeah, I was super lucky being they I was the primary calm guy in my first platoon
[01:04:20] Pretty awesome a lot of responsibility for a freaking meatball new guy and
[01:04:25] That's also where I realized hey if you don't want to be told what to do do it ahead of anyone being able to tell you what to do
[01:04:31] So that was my goal our platoon's had some unique personalities very very unique
[01:04:38] Your platoon was pretty savage dude. They it was again an interesting time and it wasn't
[01:04:47] It wasn't like an even
[01:04:49] or like a bell curve it was you either a brand new guy or you had four five platoon and there was
[01:04:57] I maybe one but there was there was really no in between and
[01:05:04] Luckily
[01:05:06] I think there was five or six of us
[01:05:09] New guys new guys that there was at least one or two that had the spotlight
[01:05:15] So I get the spotlight off the
[01:05:18] off the others yeah, and I was in my low
[01:05:21] You know low mode they were like hey, I'll keep about I'm gonna do what I'm just gonna make cause it was a scary place
[01:05:27] In the 90s at team one as a new guy it was there was much different there was there was
[01:05:35] There was scenarios I could unfold really quickly if you were out of line as a new guy and
[01:05:40] Your platoon had definitely had some bruzers in it. Yeah, yeah, that some bruzers at it
[01:05:45] Stods for freaking ledge legendary freaking 90s team guys just getting after it
[01:05:51] my platoon was a little bit more
[01:05:53] a
[01:05:56] Little bit more mellow than that so I mean I've great guys, but just a little bit of a different personality the personality my first platoon was a little bit different the person out of your first platoon
[01:06:07] We end up going on deployment together we go to go on
[01:06:12] My platoon got in so much trouble on our first trip that we didn't do we never left go on again after my first trip really yep
[01:06:20] We did one trip we got to go on we did one trip and we got so much trouble
[01:06:25] That we never did a trip again. They pulled us off the schedule Wow
[01:06:29] Were you're not going there you're not going there you're not going there. I didn't remember that yeah, so that's why we that's why
[01:06:35] Sitting in gloom for five months and how many trips did you go on? I think we did three
[01:06:41] So you probably did at least one or two of ours that we were supposed to do we got rotated out
[01:06:46] We were disaster
[01:06:48] The guys like to party. I mean I must say so
[01:06:53] God done with that. I mean what was your first platoon any any big leaders at lessons learned?
[01:06:58] No, I get it at the time you just I just did what I was told and you were even no
[01:07:04] T at technically with as being a calm guy. Yeah, I was well aware what I needed to do but you know
[01:07:12] You're still kind of learning how the community works and now there's things in the in the field that that you know
[01:07:18] You're still trying to develop and and you know you mentioned the guys they they were it was a unique
[01:07:24] Dynamic but they they were still solid people and
[01:07:30] They were good mentors and you know they worked with you if you you know if you were really hey
[01:07:36] I'm here to do this then they were all about
[01:07:38] Teaching you and sometimes you know
[01:07:42] Not the care but the the the stick but but you know
[01:07:46] They they did get you to where
[01:07:49] By the next platoon you're ready to to be a department head you're ready to lead and and you
[01:07:55] Newtatically what you need the
[01:07:59] the
[01:08:00] Underlined tone that I took away that I think was instilled in me the most at
[01:08:04] Silting one was being professional and that applied to like hey
[01:08:09] When you're in the field you're a professional and that's what you need to do you you you're squared away
[01:08:14] You don't have your crap line all of the place you're gear squared away
[01:08:17] You don't have straps hanging off of everything that that was the deal
[01:08:22] The time to shoot you freaking you shoot you shoot the way you're supposed to shoot you're not throwing rounds all over the place
[01:08:28] When it's time to make homes you make freaking comms and
[01:08:31] I still have an e-val that said made comms one hundred percent of the time
[01:08:36] What a hundred percent of that there's no math there's no voodoo for freaking me and gift we were making freaking comms
[01:08:42] That's it we were making freaking comms that's what was happening
[01:08:47] Yeah, but that that high level professionalism yeah, and when I was talking about your platoon had personalities
[01:08:53] They definitely had awesome crazy
[01:08:55] First analogies, but for sure professional. It was the same thing with the guys that were in in my first platoon
[01:09:00] They were a little bit more light-hearted
[01:09:03] But they were professionals and you didn't want to mess up you wanted to do good job
[01:09:08] You wanted to learn as much as you could
[01:09:10] You wanted to be a good you want to be known as a as a good operator. That's what you wanted to be known as and so
[01:09:17] That's what you did you know we'd always be all of us all whole new guy crew
[01:09:23] Saturday morning be at the team
[01:09:24] We'd be working out we'd be fixing gear we'd be hanging out that I remember that until
[01:09:30] Until basically we went on that first deployment that was what it was I just remember always being at the team
[01:09:35] Always being always this this this the way it was
[01:09:39] After that first platoon
[01:09:42] then I
[01:09:43] Started volunteering for our platoons on the ships and you continued doing the
[01:09:48] What we called spec ops platoon site which was going to
[01:09:52] Go on basically and then going on exercise from there how was that next platoon?
[01:09:57] It was it was good you know because again now you're past the new guy stage and now people are looking to you
[01:10:04] You know to to start being a leader and
[01:10:06] We had we had good new guy a great new guys and I had now I'm the department head so
[01:10:14] If there was any strains on me before now those are all gone
[01:10:18] You know we had we had good officers and it was good, but it was still back to Guam and
[01:10:24] spec ops
[01:10:26] You know
[01:10:27] It was the 90s so you know you did you did what they has you to do a lot of fit but the dry one in terms of sense
[01:10:34] Yeah, the dry years then then you didn't know the platoon you got back from that yep did a third one and
[01:10:41] again now I
[01:10:43] Starting to look at okay
[01:10:45] I'm ready to be LPO
[01:10:48] Chief my I've got the comms thing down. I'm good with that now I need to start moving up and
[01:10:54] the problem that we had at that time
[01:10:57] was the
[01:11:00] The way the Navy worked is you had that source rating
[01:11:03] So you competed against that source rating to promote and my source rating was icy and in
[01:11:09] Terrier communications electrician so my job in the Navy was supposed to be fixing phones and
[01:11:17] Navigation equipment on ships which I had no clue
[01:11:21] How to do but
[01:11:23] Because I was an electrician and I was I understood how I could look at a schematic
[01:11:29] When I took the task because that's what you take the test on I could look at the schematic and go oh, yeah
[01:11:34] Oh, this is you know this is a resistor
[01:11:36] It's probably this and you know Navy tests are all the same there's two answers that are totally out and then there's two that are pretty close
[01:11:43] And you just got to choose the right one
[01:11:45] So I was good at taking the test and promoting all the way up to E6
[01:11:50] But after that now you're competing you're still competing to to make chief
[01:11:56] But we're all competing against in different ratings and
[01:11:59] And I seeman just was not advancing because at the time a lot of people that were doing that job
[01:12:07] were
[01:12:08] Would get out and go work for like AT&T or something and but now
[01:12:14] Cellular networks were coming in so nobody was getting out so the only people that were advancing were people would been in
[01:12:20] 17 18 years because you had to build up that
[01:12:23] But then all but all my friends who are in different ratings like the call of technician was one
[01:12:30] You know they were making right because everyone was getting out working at the at the ship yards
[01:12:36] But we're all doing the same job as a seal, but that's not what they're testing thankfully that that changed and we have an SO rating and
[01:12:43] That's better but at the time and that that was really weighing on me on
[01:12:49] Promotion because I was ready to advance
[01:12:52] But it was a Navy system that was keeping me from from doing that and
[01:12:57] So after the third platoon
[01:13:00] And that was our first rotation date and
[01:13:04] We knew that some people had to leave and
[01:13:07] And some some people would stay and I think the the course was was gonna stay
[01:13:12] But I needed to find another way to kind of break out and and at the time because we were deploying down to
[01:13:19] South East Asia
[01:13:21] I looked at okay, how can I be more of a
[01:13:26] Of an asset to the team and in my third platoon who we had a
[01:13:32] Our our platoon chief who made master chief and who I'm talking about because I think you did it with him too
[01:13:39] Awesome guy, but he was a tie speaker
[01:13:41] And we did a trip to to Thailand and and I just remember
[01:13:46] He kind of commanded
[01:13:49] Everything even though he wasn't the guy in charge, but he spoke the language and
[01:13:54] you know kind of going back to
[01:13:57] You know you want you want to be an asset and
[01:14:01] To be a calm guy you're always gonna go because you have the radio what if you're a linguist that that too and this was the 90s so at the time
[01:14:11] The administrators I think it was built-in administration
[01:14:14] They were starting to normalize relations with Vietnam and
[01:14:19] We didn't have any Vietnamese speakers at the team. I think we had one he was actually from Vietnam
[01:14:25] But we had a ton of tie speakers and a ton of others so I was like okay here's an opportunity to
[01:14:32] You know kind of get a skill
[01:14:34] I get I have you know there want people to rotate so I want to go to language school for a year and
[01:14:40] And I want to stay on the West Coast so I want to take a an Asian language
[01:14:45] I end up taking me at the knees but that was an opportunity to
[01:14:49] To be able to come back and and I eventually came back to one
[01:14:53] But so that was a one year school one year. Yeah, it was
[01:14:58] one of the worst years of my career for sure and
[01:15:02] One because this the school and defense language institute is a phenomenal school. I mean there's there's no other like it
[01:15:09] But you it's all you do is study how many hours of day are you in class and how many hours of day do you have to study?
[01:15:16] So the class was regular eight hours. It's from nine to whatever and you take a a break for lunch
[01:15:24] but
[01:15:25] I and
[01:15:27] This was one thing I wasn't prepared for and I probably should have studied harder in high school should take an
[01:15:32] language but
[01:15:34] I would get up
[01:15:36] First thing in the morning early like around 4.35 and I would study for an hour and a half before for school
[01:15:44] Then I would drive in
[01:15:45] Go to class
[01:15:47] Take an extra because I think lunch was an hour. Yeah, it was like a like an hour for lunch
[01:15:53] But they had a deal with you could spend 30 minutes one on one with an instructor while they ate so you just kind of
[01:16:00] Discuss things and
[01:16:02] Then you know you eat for half an hour then you start class again finish the day. I would drive straight home study for another two hours
[01:16:09] Eat dinner study for another hour and go to bed. I need to do that for a year. I
[01:16:13] Well, I did it for about eight months and it took about eight months to fill comfortable enough where I could take
[01:16:20] You know, maybe I didn't study that extra hour after dinner or something but I mean they I mean we were learning
[01:16:25] 50 60 vocabulary words each day and and this isn't a romance language. You know, it's
[01:16:34] Completely another leaf foreign yeah, and it's a tall is a tone language. It's tonal
[01:16:39] So they have I remember you tell me about six tones so how you say a word
[01:16:44] If you think you told me about rice like rice means rice white
[01:16:49] Eat and some other things depending oh, it was something like that so the word I use is ma that's
[01:16:54] When I tell people about tones so you can say the word ma six different ways and Vietnamese so it's ma ma ma ma ma ma
[01:17:03] Ma ma ma
[01:17:05] My name is one anyway, but each of those words means something different totally different about how you say it
[01:17:11] So one means a rice plant as it's coming up the water another means your cheek another way
[01:17:17] Means your mother another way means a horse another way means a ghost or a bit cripple where you bury people
[01:17:24] So if you say the phrase like dilemma
[01:17:27] You know if I'm pointing to a horse obviously I'm not talking about my mother
[01:17:31] But if you say it wrong and someone's just listening
[01:17:35] It has a total different meaning but you can say dilemma dilemma dilemma and it means something different each time
[01:17:42] So yeah, it's just with took hours of just listening to to
[01:17:49] You know cassette tapes
[01:17:51] So we had at the time and and some people are better at this naturally than others correct?
[01:17:56] I would hope so I wasn't because the amount of hours to towards you know if you compare it with the grades
[01:18:04] I was getting I was way overworking
[01:18:07] My self but but I learned so I learned how to study was a big one
[01:18:13] They actually had somebody who was
[01:18:16] Getting their PhD on learning styles or something and they came in and actually worked with this where we took a like a survey
[01:18:24] And then she met with us and says okay, you're this type of learning style and what it taught me is like I was wasting my time with with
[01:18:31] Flashcards
[01:18:32] Because that's what everybody was used in flashcards do this is like this is my my bread and butter is flashcards
[01:18:38] So what she told me is you are better off just getting a blank notebook and just writing stuff down over and over kind of like on on the blackboard
[01:18:49] You know when you get punished because the way I will not make fun of my comm school instructor
[01:18:55] So I will not make a lot of comm school instructor
[01:18:58] So I would just listen to conversations and I would hand write it down. I'd you know run it back and that helped me
[01:19:06] Kind of on the listening side
[01:19:08] you know understand what I'm hearing and be able to to work it but it was
[01:19:15] The other bad thing about bad thing about DLI but challenging thing was the leadership and
[01:19:22] I know you have a lot of different listeners the Intel community
[01:19:26] In my opinion are not you know, they're not necessarily leaders. They're good at getting information putting it in reports
[01:19:33] I mean, that's their job leadership wasn't quite it and
[01:19:38] the
[01:19:39] The people that ran the Navy side of DLI were all
[01:19:44] Intel people
[01:19:46] That were there for like their short duty and
[01:19:49] And most of the students at DLI are all kids right out of high school because they you know, this is
[01:19:56] their job and they score high on a test and they bring them in and say hey
[01:20:01] You're gonna you're gonna study Arabic and
[01:20:04] they're like okay and
[01:20:07] You know, they would do fine for a while and if they failed and they would kind of move them down to an easier language and
[01:20:13] And if they failed that then you know, they it was to the flea tour or whatever and
[01:20:17] And but the leadership at the school was was
[01:20:22] Was challenging because they didn't want to do any of the leadership part of
[01:20:26] Actually
[01:20:27] Reintering and leading so they guys like because I was a
[01:20:33] I made E6 while I was there
[01:20:35] They kind of pushed it to us like okay you're the LPO the Asian division and
[01:20:39] You know, I'm just struggling to study every day and learn my 60 vocabulary words so I can you know
[01:20:47] Talk that day and now I got to deal with
[01:20:50] You know this person over here who you know went out and got drunk last night and you know was under age door crash their car or
[01:20:58] It was just silly little little things and and I'm thinking you know you're on short duty
[01:21:04] Should then that's something you should be doing but but it fell to us
[01:21:08] Luckily
[01:21:10] We had some good representation there some officers and senior enlisted that were going through different languages and
[01:21:19] They put a stop to a lot of that and I'll tell you one story the
[01:21:24] One of the guys was
[01:21:26] He was later our training master chief okay. Yeah, and he was there and I
[01:21:31] Show up so I'm just showing up to DLI coming from team one and
[01:21:36] Got my my white son
[01:21:38] I think I was where we were wearing whites at the time
[01:21:41] Yeah, my try you know I hope business and I walk in and
[01:21:46] The
[01:21:48] The Lieutenant that was running the school. You know, they kind of as you do your check in
[01:21:54] She's like well
[01:21:56] Yeah, I know you're any six, but we have you know
[01:22:00] We your class in and start for a couple weeks so we'll just have you work in the master dorm shack or whatever
[01:22:06] And until your class starts I'm like, oh, okay
[01:22:09] So I go down there and the person working in
[01:22:14] The shack was like an E4
[01:22:17] Who had never been in the real Navy had been at the school the whole time and
[01:22:22] Was failing so they put them in this office to to be the master at arms or whatever
[01:22:29] So I show up again E6 are I was E5 at the time and I walk in and they're like well
[01:22:37] Yeah, we're we're doing some painting of some of the offices
[01:22:41] So paint cans are over there just grab a you know grab a cannon and a brush and you can you know work
[01:22:46] Paint in the office for the next couple of days. I'm like
[01:22:50] Okay, so I walk out and I I see the the master chief and
[01:22:55] And yeah, and he's like oh great another team guy and I talk to him and I'm like hey
[01:23:00] What's a deal with you? They want me to paint in office for the next two weeks. He goes
[01:23:04] No
[01:23:05] Wops into the lieutenant's office shuts the door comes back out like five minutes later
[01:23:11] He says he worked for me for the next two
[01:23:14] So that ended that good stuff now when you came back to team one
[01:23:19] Now it's like 1997 1997 something like that yeah, and you go right into training
[01:23:26] So and that's where I've been now for a year something like so kind of our core group all went to to training and so I was I was gone for a year
[01:23:36] come back and
[01:23:38] I'm kind of you know kind of getting the layout of of what's going on and
[01:23:42] And I see all you guys and you're like yeah, we're in training so we're we're running things
[01:23:50] All right, and
[01:23:52] I'm like yeah, are there any
[01:23:54] Great team one mafia at this point there. We had our hands at everything
[01:23:58] Yeah, and I'm looking at the I'm looking at the platoons. I'm like
[01:24:01] I mean all my friends are her in training cell and so and then I think you and I talk
[01:24:07] because at the time
[01:24:08] I think you it may be started the the
[01:24:13] Combs program yeah, I kind of started yes, I had started but I hadn't run like what I bought the vision
[01:24:20] Yes, but you had vision of course
[01:24:24] So I think we talked about what we could do something something big here and
[01:24:31] I'm like I'm all in I'm all in so yeah, I came back
[01:24:35] The I think the leadership had just turned over in training and we had good people in there the guy from DLI was there and
[01:24:45] It's our I didn't knew he was awesome, so like yep, let's let's do this
[01:24:49] So we end up teaching a bunch of different stuff, but one of the coolest things that we did was we launched a
[01:24:58] Com school for the communicators at seal team one and
[01:25:02] And it was a straw it was kind of hard to get the I don't know if you remember this the hardest thing about getting it
[01:25:08] Actually approved was the amount of batteries it was gonna take the 5590 batteries that cost
[01:25:14] $64 each or something like this and we're gonna have to out fit
[01:25:17] 20 guys or whatever it was and our initial answer was no
[01:25:22] No, you you can't have money for those batteries use the rechargeable batteries which were the
[01:25:28] B-A what were they called B-A 55 something else and
[01:25:33] We were like that's that's unrealistic we'd never carry those but they only last but and we ended up fighting and our
[01:25:40] Commanding officer like we pitched the commanding officer
[01:25:42] They're all right approved and we got whatever was
[01:25:45] $4,000 to buy enough batteries to run this exercise and we set up a freaking crazy
[01:25:52] FTx out in the field and
[01:25:55] man
[01:25:56] We weighed the guys I remember we started off by weighing the guys to see how much equipment they had and and they averaged average was what in their
[01:26:05] gear and equipment 120 pounds at least yeah, so the guys are rolling out on a seven day
[01:26:12] Rit two man reconnaissance and we've got how are we how many teams you think we had?
[01:26:17] On that first one six or seven
[01:26:19] Yeah, that sounds about right yeah, yeah, it was probably actually was probably six because it was probably two guys
[01:26:28] Per six platoons at T1 and so there you go. Yeah, here we go rock and roll
[01:26:33] And we took those guys out and it was a ball buster
[01:26:38] Yeah, but it lightly
[01:26:41] So I'm sure some of the guys probably have better terms for oh
[01:26:45] Dude, it was hard so we did up in the southern California mountains. We had a really great target to observe
[01:26:51] It's a military target. There was military activity at the target and that was the key because
[01:26:58] I think what you know when we went through our
[01:27:00] Course all we had I think we're accounting cars on a road or are watching something and
[01:27:06] a lot of the training was you're gonna watch this missile site and it was a piece of PVC by
[01:27:12] Maybe somebody come out once a day and use but we had an active target or stuff was going on all the time and it was important because you knew
[01:27:21] Based on the reports who was actually doing the work because there were stuff to report
[01:27:27] Yeah, it was good and we set up comms shots all over the country and so then the the highlight of this first course that we ran though
[01:27:36] Was these there was a one three man pair
[01:27:39] For whatever reason that always happens in the team's you out of three man pair for some reason
[01:27:45] So there's one three man pair and
[01:27:48] We're monitoring everything. We're not sleeping at all. We're just not sleeping for seven days
[01:27:52] We're like we're just so freaking fired up
[01:27:54] They run into this thing and
[01:27:57] One of the that three man pair misses a calm window and
[01:28:01] So we immediately roll out there. We're like freaking star ski to huts like we got a missed calm window on freaking delta four
[01:28:08] Let's go so we roll out there and
[01:28:14] And we get to their position and pro we this is we just knew too much at our member
[01:28:21] We said like eight you know why we're tripping that calm window and they said something along the lines of like
[01:28:26] Well we tried but the other station was up and you and I looked at each other like because we were monitoring the station
[01:28:33] That what the frequency there supposed to be calm on we were listening to it and we were close enough. Yeah
[01:28:39] Yeah, we would have heard it and regardless yeah like we would 100% would have heard it
[01:28:42] We didn't hear anything so we roll out there. Hey. Why do you guys miss that calm window?
[01:28:46] They go will we try to slide but the other group was not like because we got we got calm to the other group
[01:28:54] So I remember you and I looked at each other. We just I don't know if you said eyes that we're like let's separate them
[01:29:00] Or we like what took us that way like let's separate them so we separate them and we're like freaking
[01:29:08] Who's sure we're like freaking too Sherlock Holmes up in this piece right here?
[01:29:13] And so I remember I go and I said what kind of antennas do you guys set up and he's like oh, we had a long wire and you're asking
[01:29:19] I we come back here. What kind of he says he says invert a dip all this guy says long wire their liars
[01:29:25] So we come back over and like all right
[01:29:30] You guys and tell us the truth and
[01:29:34] There's got to be consequences to that
[01:29:37] So we start making these guys a walk and
[01:29:42] Like up hills up the big hills with all their gear and equipment and they start walking and then when they would get to those points
[01:29:49] We've got calls when you get there, but we'd be waiting for them and they still had to make their calm window
[01:29:54] Along the way that's right, that's right and
[01:29:58] The good the cool thing about this
[01:30:01] They they shouldn't have lied and everything, but they were good guys. Yeah, especially that one character
[01:30:06] The one character's like I'm sorry man. We shouldn't lie. It's my father. We shouldn't lie. I'm like yeah cool
[01:30:12] But that's four minutes too late, bro
[01:30:15] And he was a new guy at the time. Yeah, so these guys were just dating life. They knew they'd screwed up
[01:30:21] but
[01:30:22] I remember so we so we they get to a spot that we took like on the top of a mountain and we'd be waiting for them
[01:30:28] And they'd get up there and
[01:30:30] Be like get out your map and
[01:30:32] They you just have the look and they're all just get out their map get out your map means we're gonna sign you another spot
[01:30:37] So we'd put point to another top of another mountain and they'd be like Roger
[01:30:42] So we did that to him a few times finally we did one and we opened up the back of the truck put the tailgate down
[01:30:49] And I remember going hey, you know go back it was actually go back to the mountain top
[01:30:56] You just came from and you could hear like a little bit of a
[01:30:59] And I said or you guys can just put your gear in the back of the truck and call it quits and
[01:31:04] I remember that one character good guys exact no no sir. Nope. Oh, he can call me sir
[01:31:09] He's like no chocolate's all right. We're going we're we're starting walking good new go fill up your water
[01:31:15] Fill up your water bottles
[01:31:17] What you tell me that guy told you that's like the hardest training he ever did he well
[01:31:21] Yeah, I talked to him a couple of years ago to talk great guy and he's like yeah
[01:31:27] I was still with the hardest train you you should actually have him on your show. I think he's still in but yeah
[01:31:32] It was
[01:31:34] From his perspective. I'm sure he would think differently, but yeah, it was good
[01:31:40] Awesome stuff great training for those calm guys really and that was you know
[01:31:47] You and I were obsessed we realized the importance of comms we've over indexed the importance of comms to you and me
[01:31:53] It was like hey if you can't get comms you can't get extracted you can't get fires, but we just true
[01:31:58] Yeah, it's true, but we were crazy about it kind of crazy. Yeah
[01:32:02] And I should have maybe had to better yeah, I'm sure some people might call it passion some people call it psychotic
[01:32:10] But that's that's how it rolls um
[01:32:12] The true threats, but lies hurt more that was the lesson learned there
[01:32:17] So then you ended up putting for a commissioning program, right?
[01:32:20] So when so this was about the the time that you left and
[01:32:25] I was
[01:32:27] Again, I've been east six for several years now and I was just I was
[01:32:32] Reading the tea leaves, you know, I would I would take the chiefs exam on
[01:32:36] on a job I didn't do did know how to do and
[01:32:43] So I thought okay this this isn't if I got to wait
[01:32:47] Another five six years to be chief when all my friends are making chief then
[01:32:52] Then I need to find another job or another career. I you know this is the time because I was that tip about 10 years
[01:32:57] At that time so you actually wait and get now. You think about it now. Yeah, it was like yeah, this is what 99
[01:33:02] So there's no wars going on. Yeah, you kind of done what you could do
[01:33:06] Yeah, yeah, there was you know
[01:33:09] It and hindsight if I knew we were gonna go to war next year
[01:33:12] I was that I would not even thought about it, but but yeah at the time I was like okay at 10 years
[01:33:17] If I'm if I'm not gonna stay then I need to go and and do something else. What did you think you would have done?
[01:33:23] I mean I hadn't an electrical background
[01:33:28] I you know, I could get that job at 18 T you were talking about
[01:33:34] Later at this time, you know, I
[01:33:37] Spoke feet in me. I mean I had I knew I could find a job somewhere. I should do something
[01:33:42] But I maybe go back to school and we had the GI bill so I had I had options
[01:33:48] So I go in to talk to to the mass chief same same guy from DLI and
[01:33:54] Because he's now the senior list of for training and
[01:33:57] And I talked to I go look you know this is this my situation
[01:34:00] You know, I love this job, but I I can't sit as an E6 for another five years
[01:34:05] While everyone else is promoting and just do the same thing
[01:34:09] So he's like you know
[01:34:10] Maybe should be an officer like fuck no
[01:34:14] And I go off on this pirate about you know, I'm here to be a matchup
[01:34:21] That's I want to do that job, you know, I I enlisted
[01:34:24] I work for a little and
[01:34:26] No way I was gonna get officer and
[01:34:29] He he says after I ramp for a while he goes look and I and you know this guy's very well spoken and I
[01:34:38] I can't say it like he did because I just don't remember it but in essence it was he said give
[01:34:46] Everyone here has something to give to this community
[01:34:49] You just need to find the right medium to do it and
[01:34:53] You know if if the enlisted route
[01:34:56] Is it working because of outside of of you know your what you can do? I mean it's a system you're not gonna change that
[01:35:03] So maybe you just need to find a different way and maybe be an officer
[01:35:07] Is the right way to go
[01:35:10] So I said okay, I'll I'll look at at least consider it and
[01:35:15] You adjust I think
[01:35:16] Did you just get picked I got picked up in I left
[01:35:22] Frost yes in 1998 okay, and I had applied in 1997 and didn't get it right and so I had to try again
[01:35:28] Yeah, and I think he had he had he had mentioned that so I
[01:35:32] looked at your program, but there was I think I was too old you're told because
[01:35:37] You wear the same age and I
[01:35:39] Didn't get it my first year and I was like well
[01:35:41] Well, I had some other career choices. I was looking at not they were in the Navy
[01:35:45] I was like okay, well, I'll go to a different command
[01:35:48] But I'll take one more crack at this to see if I can get it and I got it the second time
[01:35:52] But oh yeah, you would have been too old to get that program. I was too old so they had another
[01:35:56] I kind of a legacy program the elicic commissioning program that they were kind of phasing out because they were going over to the
[01:36:03] seamen to have real and
[01:36:05] But it the way you read it I actually could apply for that. I was I was right at the line
[01:36:12] But I could I could still qualify
[01:36:14] So I thought okay, I'll give one chance
[01:36:17] I'll put in a package and we had a guy from the command who actually I did a platoon with who just got picked up
[01:36:24] So I talked to him about it and he kind of gave me some advice on on the package
[01:36:28] But I said if if I pick up chief this year regardless of what happens. That's that's the route I'm going
[01:36:35] So I put in the package and
[01:36:38] Go through the whole process and that year they took 300 packages and
[01:36:44] They accepted 150 so I had a 50% chance
[01:36:47] Hmm, I took the chiefs exam that year and I think
[01:36:51] 6% advanced to cheating in the Navy so I had a 6% chance of being a chief or at a 50% chance of being an officer
[01:37:02] And I actually got picked up for the program that year
[01:37:06] But the chief results hadn't come out yet and how was determined again if I got picked up for chief
[01:37:11] I would just turn down the program but but I didn't make chief that year or so
[01:37:16] Okay, this is where I'm going and then what then what you had to go to college to get that program
[01:37:21] Yeah, so the unique thing about it you had to have prior college to go and the benefit and I joined the Navy right out of high school
[01:37:30] I mean I graduated on Friday that Monday I was I was gone
[01:37:34] But when I went to DLI
[01:37:36] That was a DLI is actually a an accredited university and
[01:37:44] They have an accreditation and while you were there if you took a couple of extra classes at
[01:37:49] Monore Peninsula College you could actually get a
[01:37:54] An associate's degree in foreign language so
[01:37:57] You're already in study mode when when you're there so it's like yeah easy. I'll take a couple of short courses
[01:38:03] You know do a lab on a weekend or something and so I did that so I actually had two years of college
[01:38:10] On on my record and that's what I use to get in because they only gave you you had to finish and
[01:38:15] Well, they only gave you two years but you had to be dumb before 31 that was the other problem
[01:38:21] I was gonna be 31 yet to be commissioned before year 31 and I could only only had like three semesters
[01:38:29] But I
[01:38:31] Been through DLI I knew I could study
[01:38:34] Yeah, I was a calm guy. I can do this
[01:38:36] So you know it's freaking ridiculous the program I did the program I did I was an E5 at T1
[01:38:46] I packed up my shit. I went to OCS for 13 weeks and then I was an officer at Silting 2 and that was the better program
[01:38:53] It was the freak it was ridiculous
[01:38:56] It's the reason that's why it doesn't exist anymore because it was too good. It was too angry. I agree like you
[01:39:01] There they're I had by the way I had zero college. It was like okay cool. Yeah, go ahead
[01:39:07] Being officer now was like are you I was kind of looking over my shoulder like are you serious?
[01:39:12] Is this happening cool cool right on yeah, it's I feel bad you had to go and
[01:39:18] You know get your DLI done and now you had to go back to college and get a degree man. That's the bad
[01:39:25] I guess the
[01:39:27] First part about it now where you guaranteed to go back to the teams. Yep. I wasn't so I had when I accepted
[01:39:36] It was and it was part of the interview process like well, what if you don't come back to the teams because at the time
[01:39:42] You know again this is the 90s late 90s
[01:39:45] You know they they didn't have that that that
[01:39:50] You
[01:39:52] Opening so I
[01:39:54] Now that you say that and here's the difference
[01:39:57] They took 50 people from the entire Navy for my program
[01:40:01] You know to say so like the chances of getting picked up for my program were
[01:40:05] Next to nothing because there was
[01:40:08] At least at least a thousand of applications of people. I mean, that's my guess. I'm an official number
[01:40:14] But a lot of people applied for that program because it was such a good program
[01:40:18] It was created and endorsed by the chief of naval operations. I get was a big program
[01:40:23] And it was freaking hard to get picked up. So I guess that's why
[01:40:28] When you look at a percentage why you're not too many people got that program that I got I freaking got lucky
[01:40:34] So for me when yeah by accepting the program I was
[01:40:39] Coming out of the community they let me go to school and but when I graduated and got commissioned as an incident
[01:40:48] They could have sent me to you know
[01:40:50] To swoke school like it is you know you could be a pilot you could be whatever and you had to reapply to get back into the
[01:40:58] Communing which meant I had to take the that PT test day, you know from the all hands magazine
[01:41:04] I don't think it changed that much
[01:41:06] But we had to take that again. There was a couple of other guys guys with me one I saw last night
[01:41:11] But we yeah you had you had to reapply yet to put in your package and
[01:41:16] And
[01:41:18] I remember driving up to DC to meet the detailer and not the uniform one, but
[01:41:27] But the civilian one that really ran things and
[01:41:31] Talking to her given her our package. Yeah, hey
[01:41:34] We really want to get back as me and in my my buddy and
[01:41:38] And and yeah, but I mean we had good scores because I mean my bachelor's degree after being a DLI was there was a joke
[01:41:49] And I mean and when that's your only job is to go to college because I was still getting my paycheck
[01:41:56] Not any of the
[01:41:57] The special pays or anything but I was getting paid as it was six
[01:42:01] They yeah that's all you had to do was was handing your papers on time which you know
[01:42:06] I had done two three weeks early so
[01:42:08] But so we had strong packages we got picked up and pick back up to go straight in but there was one guy that was in our custodian that did not are you serious?
[01:42:17] Yeah, was he a not was he questionable?
[01:42:21] He did 71 sit ups oh
[01:42:26] Oh, yeah
[01:42:28] You called him out
[01:42:30] So when I was at OCS
[01:42:33] Before I left
[01:42:35] One of the master chiefs at team one
[01:42:38] Said hey when you're getting ready to graduate ace OCS and you talk to the detailer as you just described her the civilian detailer that actually runs everything
[01:42:47] He goes when you talk to her
[01:42:49] Teller when you want orders teller to look in her top left drawer
[01:42:54] for your orders and I go okay Roger that master chief
[01:42:58] So I'm at OCS. I'm whatever three weeks graduation we can finally use the phone
[01:43:04] And we got a square rare or I call the office
[01:43:08] I said hey, ma'am my name is you know juggle willing and I'm about to graduate and I was trying to get orders
[01:43:15] I want to go to I was hoping to go to team two
[01:43:18] And she goes wow yeah, she's like starts going off. I know you know that failed and I'm gonna have to look at that
[01:43:23] And I said and then I listened to her and she was not sending me there
[01:43:26] And then she go and then I said
[01:43:29] Master chief so-and-so I said master chief so-and-so told me to ask you to look in your top left drawer for your orders for my orders and she goes oh
[01:43:39] Where do you want to go?
[01:43:42] And I go team two and she goes okay. I got your orders afternoon boom done
[01:43:47] How's that versus good old boy network activity?
[01:43:50] Yeah, that's so crazy, right? She was powerful powerful powerful
[01:43:56] So and she always took care of me and she took care of me and she took care of all of my friends?
[01:44:01] Yeah
[01:44:01] All my friends. All my friends. She was awesome
[01:44:04] no she was so mean to and when
[01:44:07] So when she
[01:44:09] When we found out that we were going
[01:44:11] We were getting back into the community. She's like I so where do you want to go
[01:44:15] And before I could even say it's like anywhere on that East Coast because I was
[01:44:19] again, you know, I was wanting to go back out to the West Coast.
[01:44:24] I speak Vietnamese, I mean, doesn't that make sense?
[01:44:27] Is that because you'd gone to, could you went to college on the East Coast?
[01:44:29] I did, because I, it was the only school I was, I didn't say that.
[01:44:33] So I had, I had to graduate in three semesters and I wanted to stay on the West Coast.
[01:44:39] So I applied for UCSD and all the look once, got accepted to all of them.
[01:44:46] However, they all said you have to do at least two years, two years minimum.
[01:44:50] I guess that, you know, that's how they get their money, I don't know.
[01:44:54] So I was actually at a point where I didn't find any place that would let me go for three semesters.
[01:45:01] So I actually called the, the guy in charge of the program, you civilian.
[01:45:08] And I said, look, I've tried everything.
[01:45:10] I just, I just can't, because you had to submit like a, a degree plan.
[01:45:16] And I, I, I'm coming up short.
[01:45:19] I, I don't have anything.
[01:45:20] So I got to turn it down.
[01:45:22] I guess, it was called this guy.
[01:45:25] He's retired captain, oh, oh, six captain at Norfolk State.
[01:45:29] See what he can do for you.
[01:45:31] So my guy, calling him up, start telling my story.
[01:45:35] And he likes, I have way, he goes, look, just send me all your transcripts.
[01:45:40] Just fax them.
[01:45:41] Good old boy.
[01:45:42] You little boy net one coming out of your back.
[01:45:44] Just want to get him.
[01:45:45] I fax him all, you know, all my, all my paperwork within 30 minutes.
[01:45:51] He faxes me back a training program.
[01:45:54] And they didn't get, they said, if you can do it in one semester, we'll graduate you.
[01:45:58] And we'll get you commission.
[01:45:59] Oh my, all right.
[01:46:01] So I turned that in.
[01:46:02] I got accepted.
[01:46:03] But yeah, we had to move to Virginia to, to go to school.
[01:46:09] And then once I graduated, it was an East Coast team.
[01:46:13] So when, where were you when September 11th happened?
[01:46:17] So I, I, I was status.
[01:46:19] So I was still a school.
[01:46:21] And but I was in my last semester.
[01:46:24] And it was a couple of a couple of months before graduate,
[01:46:27] because I graduated in December.
[01:46:29] And I remember I was at home, working on a paper.
[01:46:34] And I was listening to, to the local radio station, the talk radio.
[01:46:40] And they came over, says, we're getting some reports, something happening.
[01:46:46] I got up, turn on the TV.
[01:46:48] And, and that's, that's where I was.
[01:46:50] And I remember that day, I was getting phone calls on my, on my cell phone
[01:46:56] from people from all over that I didn't know.
[01:47:00] And they were trying to call somebody else.
[01:47:02] But I guess all the towers were real screwed up.
[01:47:04] So calls were getting directed to people that,
[01:47:08] that it wasn't, because they would, I'd answer the phone.
[01:47:10] It's like, it's got there, you know, they're, they're panicking.
[01:47:14] And like, you got the wrong number.
[01:47:15] Because no, this has got its number.
[01:47:16] I'm like, sorry, I don't, I don't know anybody.
[01:47:20] And I got a couple of those.
[01:47:22] But, and then like every other team guy, you know,
[01:47:26] I'm, I'm looking, and I already had orders.
[01:47:28] So I knew what command I was going to by that point.
[01:47:32] And, but I only had a couple of months left.
[01:47:34] So, uh, I wasn't making calls, I, you know, get me there.
[01:47:39] Because I knew I was going there within a couple of months.
[01:47:41] So I just had to finish that one semester, graduate, get commission.
[01:47:46] And, uh, and yeah, that day, I got commission.
[01:47:49] I left the university, drove straight from North Oak to Virginia Beach
[01:47:53] and checked into a, tilting four.
[01:47:56] And then what was your role?
[01:47:56] It's a team form, you got there.
[01:47:58] So this was another one of the, I found out that kind of the issues
[01:48:03] of the program that the day you graduate.
[01:48:07] Yes, I mean, new butter bars, and some good for it.
[01:48:12] And I'm now a day, a day one.
[01:48:16] Well, all of my, everyone at the team, all the officers, especially the J.O.s,
[01:48:21] you know, they've been a jail for a year and a half.
[01:48:24] Because they had to, you know, finish school, go to bus, go to school, go to ask you to,
[01:48:29] all that.
[01:48:30] So I'm, behind them, technically.
[01:48:33] By a year and a half, even though I've had 12 years in the community at this point,
[01:48:38] I'm, to them, I'm just day one, uh, Ensign.
[01:48:43] And so all the platoons are filled.
[01:48:46] And I show up and, you know, the,
[01:48:49] getting this is right after 9-11.
[01:48:51] So, you know, everything's crazy.
[01:48:53] But things haven't changed enough yet to, where they start deploying, you know,
[01:48:59] people differently.
[01:49:00] We're still sending, you know, people to the different theaters.
[01:49:03] And, uh, and I show up and, of course, I want to get an uplatoon.
[01:49:06] I'm ready to go.
[01:49:08] And they're like, yeah, everything's filled.
[01:49:10] So, uh, we're going to make you the training officer.
[01:49:13] And, which I was okay with because, having been in training, so I can, I can run
[01:49:18] training.
[01:49:19] That's, that's not hard.
[01:49:20] However, at that time, all the training had been taken away from the teams
[01:49:25] and centralized.
[01:49:27] So I was more of a, like, an LNO,
[01:49:29] run the command to the, uh, to the training department, which, again, wasn't bad.
[01:49:34] But, but at that, also at that time, they didn't, uh, they just do like the unit level
[01:49:42] training.
[01:49:43] But the training where you train with the people that you're going to deploy with,
[01:49:47] hadn't happened, or that was still at the team.
[01:49:50] So that was kind of my focus was coming up with a good ORE.
[01:49:54] And, you know, at that, of course, at that time, the big thing was the, you know,
[01:49:58] the weapons of mass destruction.
[01:50:00] So we had to come up with stuff where guys were wearing mop gear and all that craziness.
[01:50:05] But, uh, so that, that was kind of my, uh, my focus during that, that, uh, that first
[01:50:11] work up.
[01:50:12] But then right before deployment, one of the jails of the platoon that's going to Afghanistan,
[01:50:23] gets fired.
[01:50:24] Oh, and, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding,
[01:50:28] where am I at?
[01:50:29] And I didn't have a job, you know, when you deploy, because the whole team deployed,
[01:50:34] I was just going to be an op-sacist and, but I'm ready to go.
[01:50:40] And so they ended up putting me in that platoon as, as the third O, uh, or, yeah, third
[01:50:47] O at the time, which again, is kind of crazy because I'm 12 years and, uh, I think the
[01:50:54] big learning experience from that was, it was tough for a lot of the other jails, because
[01:51:03] again, we are still sending guys to South America, to, uh, other theaters to, uh, because
[01:51:11] we still had responsibilities there.
[01:51:13] And here's me who's junior to everybody and I get the one platoon that's going to
[01:51:19] Afghanistan.
[01:51:21] And, uh, so I could tell in the J.O. jungle that, uh, I wasn't their favorite person, but, you
[01:51:28] know, again, I was a lot older than most of them and, and their approval wasn't really
[01:51:33] what I was looking for.
[01:51:35] But, um, but it was, it was, uh, a great opportunity, but there were, there were problems.
[01:51:40] There, and even inside the platoon, there were, you know, some feelings that, uh, you know,
[01:51:46] why did the guy get fired?
[01:51:47] Uh, I don't remember, I wasn't really part of that.
[01:51:50] It was, I was something in turn, I never really asked, you know, my, when I showed up to
[01:51:56] the platoon, my thing was, uh, you know, I'm just here to, to do what I can to make the
[01:52:03] platoon better, you know, where we're going to Afghanistan.
[01:52:06] And at this time, that was right when I rack was starting up.
[01:52:09] So a lot of the focus wasn't on Afghanistan.
[01:52:12] Everybody was kind of focused on Iraq.
[01:52:15] And, uh, you know, I'm like, I'm here to help out.
[01:52:18] You let me know how I can do it.
[01:52:21] But again, the hard part, and even for me, you know, I'm not a one-year, instant.
[01:52:28] I have 12 years in and I've done a lot of stuff.
[01:52:32] I've, and it was hard for me at times.
[01:52:34] And this was kind of my first being as an officer in a platoon.
[01:52:39] You know, I had a lot to learn of, you know, you're not, you know, the E6, any more.
[01:52:45] You're one of, one of, one of here when I learned that.
[01:52:48] So I'm at team two.
[01:52:50] I freaking have an awesome platoon filled with awesome guys.
[01:52:53] And we're going on a trip and we're building a pallet.
[01:52:56] And we already talked about pallet building today.
[01:52:59] Like, hey, you're going to make a square-to-weight pallet.
[01:53:00] So I'm down there. I'm seeing the pallet being built. And I'm like, hey, we need to move
[01:53:06] this box over here.
[01:53:06] We need to put these rigs over here.
[01:53:09] And I start building the pallet and my LPO, who's a freaking great guy, a great friend
[01:53:14] of mine, Scottie Neal, Navy SEAL who unfortunately passed away.
[01:53:18] But he was freaking great LPO.
[01:53:21] And he looks at me and he goes, hey, sir, I was like, oh, damn, he goes, why don't
[01:53:26] you let me do my job and you go do yours?
[01:53:29] And it was the perfect thing to say to me.
[01:53:32] And I just was like, he's 100% right.
[01:53:34] I'm down here trying to build a pallet.
[01:53:37] These guys, this is what they do.
[01:53:39] This is his domain.
[01:53:41] The LPO is going to run that shit.
[01:53:43] And I was down there stepping on his toes.
[01:53:45] And from that point on, the switch went into my head that if I don't need to be giving
[01:53:54] my input, I'm not going to give it.
[01:53:55] If I don't need to prove to anybody that I know how to build a pallet, no one cares.
[01:53:59] They want to build a pallet as their pallet.
[01:54:01] They want to come up with the navigation route.
[01:54:05] And you know what?
[01:54:06] The hardest one, obviously, is like, oh, they want to come up with a communication plan.
[01:54:08] If it's going to work, if it's a viable plan, we're going with their plan.
[01:54:11] And I'm not going to interfere with it.
[01:54:13] And that's the moment, the exact moment in time when Scottie Neal said to me, hey, sir, why
[01:54:19] don't you let me do my job and you go do yours?
[01:54:21] I was like, Roger that.
[01:54:23] Part of me was a little bit paranoid.
[01:54:24] I think two of like, I want to show everyone that I'm a hard worker.
[01:54:28] Like, hey, I'm here to move and I would continue to do that throughout my career of like,
[01:54:33] oh, if you got stuff to move, I'll move it and I'll keep my mouth shut.
[01:54:37] Because I know you guys don't want to hear from me about how to build a pallet, about
[01:54:40] where to, how to set up the range, about all that stuff.
[01:54:43] That's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the E man's domain.
[01:54:47] And I didn't mess with it.
[01:54:49] As long as there was viable plans happening, we're going with the, with what the plans are.
[01:54:54] So true, and I had a very similar experience, I think, was even with the pallet as well.
[01:55:00] And I was very fortunate that the LPO was just so squared away.
[01:55:05] Just one of the best people I've ever worked with, still a very good friend.
[01:55:09] And, but because I was in his squad, you know, I dealt with him quite a bit.
[01:55:14] And we came up with a signal that if I was out of my box.
[01:55:20] So if we were at a meeting, he would like rub his forehead or something.
[01:55:24] And that was like, okay, shut up and just let things go.
[01:55:31] And yeah, just phenomenal guy and, and you need that.
[01:55:35] Because again, it's, it's hard for us that had that background to, to, to, to step back and learn
[01:55:42] that.
[01:55:43] Yep.
[01:55:44] And I, well, when I had, in my second pool tune, I had the, the officer that got fired
[01:55:50] and I had the legendary officer take over.
[01:55:54] And he was super experienced.
[01:55:55] He was a prior senior chief.
[01:55:57] He was a prior senior chief.
[01:55:59] And he didn't put his, he didn't peed in, tell us how to build pallet.
[01:56:03] He didn't tell us how to do anything.
[01:56:04] He asked us.
[01:56:05] He put us in charge.
[01:56:06] He was awesome.
[01:56:07] And as soon as my LPO said to me, hey, why don't you go to your job?
[01:56:10] I was like, man, that's what, that's what the best leader that I saw did.
[01:56:15] He did that for us.
[01:56:16] And I'm going to do that from now on.
[01:56:18] Good little lesson learned.
[01:56:19] So what was that deployment like?
[01:56:21] So you're, you're pretty early into Afghanistan.
[01:56:24] Yes.
[01:56:25] So what year was this?
[01:56:26] Like 2003?
[01:56:27] Yes.
[01:56:28] So it was, it was early, but more importantly, again, everyone was focused on
[01:56:31] Iraq.
[01:56:32] So we were kind of a, like a task unit light.
[01:56:37] So it was mainly a platoon with some supporting people, some headshed guys.
[01:56:42] And we weren't really established yet in, kind of our, our operational sense.
[01:56:47] So we, you know, we were just trying to find work.
[01:56:51] And we did a lot of special reconnaissance, a lot of driving around Afghanistan.
[01:56:56] And non-armored up, humvasion with the doors off.
[01:57:00] It was just too heavy.
[01:57:02] And so we did a lot of those missions.
[01:57:04] We did a couple of direct action.
[01:57:07] And it was, it was a, it was a good deployment.
[01:57:09] Again, I learned a ton.
[01:57:11] I was with really, really good people.
[01:57:14] And, you know, we had our issues just like, like everything else.
[01:57:18] But it was a good learning experience from that.
[01:57:21] But the main leadership things and the OIC and I had a couple of words sometimes.
[01:57:28] And it was, again, I think that was, because he told me there was a feeling that, you know,
[01:57:35] I kind of got lucky to be in this.
[01:57:40] And I think he made a comment like, you know, guys, some guys really earned
[01:57:44] to be here.
[01:57:45] And I was thinking, what do you think I've been doing the last 12 years?
[01:57:49] You know, all this, you know, when, when I was in my first platoon, you're still riding
[01:57:53] your huffy bike up and down the street.
[01:57:56] So I try not to take it personally.
[01:57:59] And, you know, it was, it was a lot of growing for me too, because again, it was, it was kind
[01:58:03] of a strange time.
[01:58:04] But, you know, we came back from that didn't, didn't lose anybody.
[01:58:09] And it was, it was a good first deployment to a combat zone, because we got to shake a
[01:58:15] lot of stuff out.
[01:58:17] And we weren't really driving, like, you know, like, we were later, you know, definitely
[01:58:23] what you guys were doing later.
[01:58:24] Yeah, that's such a nice gentle ramp up.
[01:58:29] And I had that too, like, even, even literally when I got to Baghdad, my first platoon,
[01:58:34] I was like, the, the, the, the, the SAA, who's a freaking, like, awesome guy.
[01:58:41] His wife used to say that me and him were soul mates, but we just got along, like,
[01:58:45] brothers.
[01:58:46] And, but he was already on the ground.
[01:58:48] And so we showed up in the night we showed up, he's like, hey, we're getting, murdered
[01:58:52] from this area, take your platoon out and go check it out.
[01:58:55] And so we're like, I'm like, okay, cool.
[01:58:57] And basically, he just kind of made it up.
[01:58:59] Just to get us out there, shake out the whatever's get, okay, look, you're in Iraq now,
[01:59:04] get over it.
[01:59:05] It's time.
[01:59:06] And then you came back and he's like, all right, cool.
[01:59:08] Now let's start looking at our first mission, but that's, and then that whole
[01:59:11] deployment was a nice ramp up of, of learning opportunities to learn, going back to
[01:59:16] your point of like when someone says, you're lucky to be here.
[01:59:20] I'll just talk about this on the academy training leaders and, what, it's such a,
[01:59:29] and we actually just talked about this on the underground.
[01:59:31] Uh, just just saying like, yeah.
[01:59:34] Yeah, I agree.
[01:59:37] And it's so disarming to people when you say, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm 100% lucky to be
[01:59:41] here.
[01:59:42] Absolutely.
[01:59:43] And I wish I had that advice.
[01:59:46] Well, I wish I would.
[01:59:47] I wish we had that advice, you know, you're talking to the guy that was telling
[01:59:51] the instructor of our commune of cases, of course, that no, it's Zulu time.
[01:59:55] Zulu is always Zulu is always Zulu.
[01:59:57] I was 19 years old.
[01:59:58] That guy was about 35.
[02:00:00] He was a senior chief.
[02:00:01] He was definitely a chief.
[02:00:03] Yeah, so he's a chief.
[02:00:04] So I'm telling a chief.
[02:00:05] Hey, listen, chief.
[02:00:07] Let me tell you how it is, bro.
[02:00:09] Jocco has got word to put out.
[02:00:11] So yeah, we all, we always, we could go back and maybe forget checks and stuff.
[02:00:17] But that's, that's a good one.
[02:00:18] You know, like, hey, when somebody tells you something, and well, you know, he's like,
[02:00:23] okay, yeah, absolutely.
[02:00:25] It's disarming.
[02:00:26] It's a go way to understand what their perspective is.
[02:00:28] It's a good move.
[02:00:29] It's a hard one to learn.
[02:00:30] It is.
[02:00:31] Because that's a shot, right?
[02:00:32] You're like, look at him literally thinking yourself, are you kidding me?
[02:00:34] Right now.
[02:00:35] It's a total ego thing.
[02:00:36] And I've got right into it.
[02:00:38] But yeah, it's.
[02:00:40] But what was your opt-emple like on that deployment?
[02:00:43] It wasn't not too crazy.
[02:00:45] I mean, we were doing like long patrols, like week long, you know, eight days, nine
[02:00:50] days with resupplys, that kind of stuff.
[02:00:53] So, you know, it was, it was tiring on the guys.
[02:00:57] It wasn't real strong kinetic.
[02:00:58] It was just long, long drives.
[02:01:01] And we just drive around and see what we could find and we talked, you know, try to talk
[02:01:06] to people, try to get an idea.
[02:01:08] And the 2000, the IED threat wasn't heinous yet.
[02:01:11] No, no.
[02:01:12] And again, we were in non-aparmark humbys.
[02:01:15] We had the doors off.
[02:01:16] You know, so we could easily engage.
[02:01:21] And so yeah, that wasn't, that wasn't big at that point.
[02:01:27] So then would you get what you do and you got home from that deployment?
[02:01:29] So I got home on my, all right, you know, now I can finally do my AOC slot because that
[02:01:35] was, you know, really what I wanted to start at the beginning.
[02:01:39] So you could, you know, do a good mentoring.
[02:01:42] And I get back and say, hey, I'm ready for my platoon.
[02:01:46] And I like, oh, you just did it.
[02:01:48] You just had your AOC slot.
[02:01:50] So it's on a fit rep.
[02:01:51] So now you got away another two years because now, because I'm still behind.
[02:01:56] So my year group is still kind of working their way through SQT at this point.
[02:02:04] And but I've already had my thing.
[02:02:06] So the, the new CEO of the command came in and I, I talked to him and again, it was like,
[02:02:15] how am I going to be relevant?
[02:02:17] So at that time, a lot of people were getting the, going to the Army ASO schools.
[02:02:24] Because that was sort of like advanced special operations stuff.
[02:02:27] Right.
[02:02:28] And so I'm like, right, that's, that's what you, that's what you need.
[02:02:32] Then I'll go it.
[02:02:33] And it was again, nobody wanted to do it because they had to deal with the Army.
[02:02:37] And I knew why.
[02:02:39] And because the, the one school was in brag for like three, two months, three months.
[02:02:45] It was a long time.
[02:02:46] That probably two months.
[02:02:48] And it was exactly four hour drive from Virginia Beach to brag.
[02:02:54] And it was, you know, one of those regular schools you do it during the week and then on the weekend,
[02:02:58] you do whatever.
[02:03:00] I had to, in the beginning, I would drive home for the weekend and then drive back on on Sunday
[02:03:06] for class on Monday.
[02:03:09] And I had to, I stopped driving home because I knew if I went home, I wouldn't go back.
[02:03:14] Because I hated it that bad.
[02:03:17] And it was just the, what part did you hate about it?
[02:03:21] It was just the way the Army ran it, you know, it was kind of protector of the tab type thing.
[02:03:25] And it wasn't just me because there were just a couple of Navy guys and it was mostly Army,
[02:03:31] all SF guys.
[02:03:33] And they'll, I'll grade people and I got along with, with everyone.
[02:03:38] And, but it was, even they were getting frustrated from the silliness and it was silly.
[02:03:45] And, you know, all of us had, you know, what, 12, 13, 14 years.
[02:03:50] I mean, these were senior guys and like, you know, I still got to prove to you that I get to be here.
[02:03:56] I could kind of stuff where they make you improve.
[02:03:58] Just, it was, a lot of the stuff was very subjective and, you know, they would, they would test you.
[02:04:04] So they would fail you on something to see how you, how you reacted.
[02:04:09] And some guys were like, screw this, I don't need this and they would just leave.
[02:04:12] And then, but, you know, they were just kind of wanting to test you.
[02:04:15] So you have to do it again.
[02:04:16] It was a lot of just kind of admin, as straight of kind of stuff that.
[02:04:20] And I was a class leader, which, you know, so I had to meet with them every day and, you know,
[02:04:24] they had to tell me how to take out the trash and all that.
[02:04:26] Whatever.
[02:04:27] Okay.
[02:04:28] Get some.
[02:04:29] Yeah.
[02:04:30] But, you know, I got through it and, and it was good because the, the community was just,
[02:04:34] it wasn't something that we were used to and we didn't really have anybody quality.
[02:04:38] I think it's better now.
[02:04:40] But we needed that.
[02:04:41] And, uh, when we got, on that next deployment to our rack, it was, uh, it was somewhat,
[02:04:49] a benefit to have that, that type of skill.
[02:04:54] And the, uh, so I had a, like a small cell of mostly chiefs, because again, all the battoons were
[02:05:01] filled, but you had, uh, guys that weren't in a platoon.
[02:05:06] So, um, we all just got trained up and then when we deployed, we kind of got farmed out
[02:05:12] to different units.
[02:05:14] And our, uh, command had the PSD, uh, personal security and attachment for the, uh, the top
[02:05:21] five.
[02:05:22] So, this is now, this is now 2005?
[02:05:26] Uh, yeah, yes.
[02:05:28] Yeah.
[02:05:29] Okay.
[02:05:30] That's summer.
[02:05:31] Got it.
[02:05:32] Pretty sure.
[02:05:33] Got it.
[02:05:34] And, uh, so we, my team of guys, again, kind of got farmed out because the army was kind
[02:05:40] of running then at the time.
[02:05:42] So I got put into an ODA house, north of, uh, a bagged at and for about three months.
[02:05:52] And because their guy that did that job had the lead.
[02:05:55] Was it on a river?
[02:05:57] There was no.
[02:05:58] There was no.
[02:05:59] I, I, I did some work up there as on a river, because it actually crazier and an awesome
[02:06:03] ODA.
[02:06:04] Yeah.
[02:06:05] But, and, and I have to say that these guys were phenomenal to, to work with.
[02:06:11] And, uh, you know, I get asked all the time.
[02:06:13] I'm sure you do too.
[02:06:14] You know, who's better the army SF or seals?
[02:06:18] I mean, obviously we are.
[02:06:19] But, uh, but, but truly, I mean, these guys were professional, like, awesome professionals.
[02:06:28] And their concept of, was a little bit, you know, they just did things a little bit different,
[02:06:34] not better or worse.
[02:06:35] But, uh, they were just a well developed group of guys.
[02:06:41] And what struck me as the, as the most beneficial and what I really admire them, the, the
[02:06:50] leaders, the, so the OIC and they had a senior listed.
[02:06:53] And, yeah, they only had one officer.
[02:06:56] So I show up and, you know, they didn't ask for me, you know, are really, they needed some
[02:07:05] help, but, and I show up.
[02:07:07] And I talk to the OIC and, and, uh, we're about the same age and, you know, we, you know,
[02:07:12] talk for a little bit.
[02:07:14] And so they, they have a meeting of the, the group of the house.
[02:07:18] So, uh, they bring everybody in and, I remember, you know, they kind of introduced me to everybody.
[02:07:26] And, uh, they made a couple of Navy jokes, which was fine.
[02:07:29] Yeah, then the, the senior enlisted, who, again, just a phenomenal individual, he goes,
[02:07:37] so today, Mr. Gifford is, is part of this team.
[02:07:44] And he is one of us.
[02:07:46] And they, they call themselves the Eagles.
[02:07:47] He goes, today he is an Eagle.
[02:07:49] And from as long as he lives in this house, he is an Eagle.
[02:07:52] And you will treating that way.
[02:07:54] And, uh, from, from that whole time there, I felt like I was part of the team.
[02:08:02] And I, you know, even though we didn't go through the same training or anything, I, they brought
[02:08:08] me in and they were just a phenomenal, phenomenal group of guys.
[02:08:12] And how long were you up there working with them?
[02:08:14] About three months.
[02:08:15] What, what were you doing?
[02:08:17] So with this new skill set, which we'll say is pretty much, intelligence, gathering intelligence
[02:08:22] and very, very smethodologies is what you're doing.
[02:08:25] And you are basically helping them gather intelligence.
[02:08:28] So I, I was the primary, like, report writer.
[02:08:32] So when all the information came in, I did the evaluation on it, right, reports and send
[02:08:37] it out.
[02:08:38] The reason that we chose to do that by farming guys out was because of the PSD mission,
[02:08:45] you know, they, they were really relying on, on Intel and heavily.
[02:08:49] Because, you know, they were going out for, you know, public things and, you know, when
[02:08:54] there's a threat, they want to know about it.
[02:08:57] And there were all these units scattered everywhere.
[02:09:01] So we chose certain specific places that we figured there was some, could be some pretty
[02:09:06] hot Intel that could be certain, uh, the top five.
[02:09:11] And they wanted to be able to get that information right away.
[02:09:14] So by having kind of a liaison in those houses, if something came up, then they could,
[02:09:20] uh, we could get the information to our guys, uh, doing the mission very quickly.
[02:09:27] What were the living conditions over there, right?
[02:09:29] It was, it was awesome.
[02:09:30] So we lived in a house in the middle of, of town.
[02:09:34] And then it was adjacent, usually, to a Iraqi military base.
[02:09:41] And then so there were like the deep inside perimeter, you had several rings.
[02:09:47] And, uh, you know, at that house, we used to get hit maybe at least once a week, if not
[02:09:53] more.
[02:09:54] Uh, and, you know, we all just go up to the roof.
[02:09:57] We had stuff everywhere.
[02:09:59] And it was just, you battle until they stopped.
[02:10:01] You know, you weren't moving.
[02:10:02] So you just kept going and, and, until it was over.
[02:10:07] And, uh, so yeah, you had everything right by your bed, and as soon as the alarm went off,
[02:10:13] because we, you know, we always had somebody on watch.
[02:10:15] That was, uh, they, they would send out and everyone would just go up.
[02:10:20] And then, uh, then we would run, you know, our operations from there.
[02:10:25] And then, uh, and we, we did a couple of DAs.
[02:10:28] I did those with, with them.
[02:10:30] And they were good.
[02:10:31] Again, we went out.
[02:10:32] We did some of our partner force that you were working with, with the Iraqi-Zayuron base,
[02:10:35] where the were you guys just doing hits kind of solo.
[02:10:37] We, we did have a partner force, but it, we didn't really use them that much.
[02:10:41] They were kind of on their own.
[02:10:43] I think some of our guys did some, some teaching over there.
[02:10:46] But if we did something, it was, it was pretty much just us.
[02:10:49] And, uh, so I went to, you know, like, I would go to the range with the guys.
[02:10:54] And they would kind of teach me some of their TTPs.
[02:10:57] And, uh, and again, not better or worse, just a little different.
[02:11:00] Uh, but total professionals.
[02:11:02] And, uh, I was able to, to work with them.
[02:11:06] Yeah, that three months and it was, it was phenomenal.
[02:11:09] It wasn't one of the best, uh, best parts of that tour.
[02:11:13] But even on, on the wide scale, just to be able to work with guys from, from that, uh,
[02:11:20] that ODA was, yeah, it was phenomenal.
[02:11:23] So then would, so you're only there for three months, what's doing you got done with that?
[02:11:26] So after three months, they, they were switching out.
[02:11:29] So they were kind of off cycle from us.
[02:11:31] So they had, you know, the same, a length of deployments, but they rotated out,
[02:11:36] that way, all SF wasn't rotating out at the same time.
[02:11:40] So when, uh, they left the new ODA that took over that house, had everybody they needed,
[02:11:47] uh, and apparently Chris Gifford wasn't part of that team.
[02:11:51] Yeah, there wasn't, uh, there was like, we, we appreciate it, but we're good.
[02:11:56] Kind of thing.
[02:11:57] And I, I think it was, you know, kind of more of a headshed thing.
[02:12:00] And, you know, there's, there's no way to force, you know,
[02:12:03] reason to force it on them, you know, I kind of explained to him, you know,
[02:12:06] this is what we're looking for.
[02:12:08] If you get this information, please just send it to these people.
[02:12:11] So I got brought back and, um,
[02:12:15] the, there were two teams deployed at that time.
[02:12:19] So one from the East Coast and one from the West Coast.
[02:12:21] The East Coast team was doing the PDFs.
[02:12:23] The West Coast was doing more, um, connect types done.
[02:12:28] So they needed somebody, um, I think their ops officer had to go back, uh,
[02:12:35] or something, but they needed a spot filled.
[02:12:38] So, uh, Mike Mann asked if I would just go down and work there for a month.
[02:12:43] And, uh, so I, I did that.
[02:12:46] And I was just in the ops shop or in, in the talk, uh,
[02:12:50] running ops, getting all the, you know, the briefs in,
[02:12:54] making sure, and then while they were outside the wire, you know,
[02:12:58] make sure we were monitoring the, uh, the operating picture and everything.
[02:13:02] And, uh, that's when your old roommate was, uh, was down there.
[02:13:06] Oh, right on.
[02:13:07] And, uh, and, uh, yeah, awesome.
[02:13:10] Yeah. It was awesome.
[02:13:11] Cause, you know, that's, you know,
[02:13:12] that's, him old team one guy.
[02:13:14] Yeah, yeah.
[02:13:14] Him and me got to do missions, man, together.
[02:13:16] Really?
[02:13:17] Yeah.
[02:13:17] And there was like a weird, confluence of events that happened for a short period of time.
[02:13:23] And we were like out in the middle of Iraq together just doing ops.
[02:13:27] It was pretty freaking cool, man.
[02:13:29] Yeah, he, uh, I did, we did one mission together.
[02:13:33] It was, it was kind of a circus, but it was a, the target that I was like right outside the gate.
[02:13:40] And I mean, you can almost see it.
[02:13:42] If you look over the wall from, from the, uh, from the compound,
[02:13:46] you could see the, the target.
[02:13:47] I mean, it was, it was pretty close.
[02:13:49] And, uh, for some reason, people came out of the woodwork to go on this up.
[02:13:57] So we had, like officers and cheese and AstraZeneca.
[02:14:02] I thought you were talking about enemy personnel,
[02:14:04] not on how the woodwork.
[02:14:04] I'm like, no, here we go.
[02:14:06] It's like, no, no, we had,
[02:14:07] and hangers go lower.
[02:14:08] We had a lot of people who needed to experience,
[02:14:13] hmm, to outside the wire.
[02:14:16] And so they were going to be on this thing.
[02:14:18] And, uh, they're all looking at the con ops.
[02:14:20] Like, hey, tell me, do you, do you, do you,
[02:14:22] do you, 1200 yards away?
[02:14:23] Let's, let's get on that one.
[02:14:24] Yeah.
[02:14:25] And, uh, so, we're, we're, you know, the op, we get out there,
[02:14:30] and it's just a clown show because people run everywhere.
[02:14:33] So I look over at our, uh, friend, and he looks at me, he goes,
[02:14:38] come with me.
[02:14:39] So we go to like this, uh, barrier position, you know,
[02:14:43] we're kind of on the edge as a, uh, as a, you know, blocking position.
[02:14:47] Because we are away from everybody.
[02:14:49] And we're like, we're going to sit this one out.
[02:14:51] We're going to sit right here until all this is over.
[02:14:54] And, uh, you know, it was a dry hole or whatever, but it was, uh, yeah, it was, yeah, it's funny.
[02:15:01] He's, he's like a real life Sam Elliott with his attitude.
[02:15:05] Definitely just like, yeah.
[02:15:06] Well, we're not doing that.
[02:15:07] You know, just like just a freaking classic.
[02:15:10] And then, and so, so you were done with that,
[02:15:13] but that's still, you saw it more on the deployment, right?
[02:15:15] So a couple of months left, I go back to the PSD mission.
[02:15:18] And we, we just help out there.
[02:15:20] You know, we still heavily, a zons to some of the outside units.
[02:15:25] Of course, all the OGA's and all that.
[02:15:28] So I spent two months just kind of bouncing around and just helping out in, in,
[02:15:34] in ops there just to try to get everything out.
[02:15:37] I don't think I did any more missions or anything.
[02:15:40] Most of that was that first three months.
[02:15:42] So it was just, and then, you know, of course right before you leave,
[02:15:45] now all the rewards, all the rewards have to be written.
[02:15:47] And all the, you know, fit reps need to be done.
[02:15:50] So I, uh, I was, I was part of that, uh, you got your answer.
[02:15:55] I was a group.
[02:15:57] And then you would you do after that?
[02:15:59] So we got back from that deployment.
[02:16:03] And, uh, and I'm still not up with my, uh, my year group.
[02:16:08] So I talked to the, the CO and, and he recommended it or, but he's like,
[02:16:16] well, I don't, I don't know, you go to Germany for a couple of years that you can do, uh,
[02:16:20] the CO had been in Germany before.
[02:16:23] Oh yeah, I started, you know who he is.
[02:16:24] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely one of the top five.
[02:16:31] But he, uh, he's like, you know, you should go out there, you'll enjoy it.
[02:16:35] And, and I remember he told me, you know, if you live on base,
[02:16:41] I will come out there and punch you because he's like, you need to get out and town,
[02:16:46] live amongst the, uh, the populace, the populace and experience living overseas like you should.
[02:16:53] I went to his house when he was living overseas in Germany.
[02:16:59] And it was absolutely freaking epic.
[02:17:02] I wish I had taken pictures. I wish I knew the name of the village of the house because it's
[02:17:05] still there. It was like one of these postcard villages.
[02:17:10] Yeah. And he had this crazy, like, old house that was completely like gutted and modernized inside.
[02:17:18] It was freaking. Very just. Yeah. It was freaking badass. Yeah. So,
[02:17:23] him and by the way, like everything that guy does is like all dialed it.
[02:17:27] Yeah. I remember I was going to his house. He's like, hey, you need to wear a shirt. I'm like, bro,
[02:17:30] I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't wear a shirt. He's like, no, a shirt. Like a,
[02:17:33] like an actual human shirt, not a freaking. Do just through t-shirt, you idiot. And I was like,
[02:17:38] I was like, I don't have any shirts. And he goes, all right, come, and he opens up his closet.
[02:17:42] Closet is like a, a room. And he's got no kidding hanging up, just button down,
[02:17:49] whatever, really nice shirts in the color of like the rainbow. Like starting with,
[02:17:54] what is it? Red, orange, yellow, green blue purple with with freaking nine shirts of red. And
[02:18:01] it goes all the way through. And I'm like, bro, are you freaking James Bond? What? I don't even have
[02:18:07] eye shirt, much less 49 shirts of very in colors. But yeah, that was all on this completely
[02:18:14] dialed house overlooking this green, blushered valley. It was crazy, beautiful. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:18:20] And again, a phenomenal person. And for what he's done for the community. And yeah, just just a
[02:18:27] great guy. So he convinced me this would be a good, a good place to go. And he was right.
[02:18:34] It was what probably might one of my best tours. Because you, you move your family out there.
[02:18:38] And you know, you're, you're part of not, not the war necessarily, because it's, it's not in that
[02:18:46] AO. But you know, you're still doing really good good stuff. And at that time, you know, Africa
[02:18:52] was really starting to pick up. So I was able to be there as that was kind of starting and
[02:19:00] again with my, my background. And you know, these, these Intel type type schools, it was, it was a
[02:19:08] very good fit. So I worked in the, as a task officer there at the unit. And we were moving
[02:19:18] guys down to Africa. So we would, we would send guys, you know, they would basically check into
[02:19:24] the unit in Germany and then move straight to Africa for four to six months, sometimes. And,
[02:19:30] you know, working through embassies. So that was my experience of, you know, starting to,
[02:19:35] to deal health, the State Department works and how all these other good times. Oh, yeah.
[02:19:41] Yeah, that was, you know, when you, when you, when you're retiring, you know what you don't want to do.
[02:19:48] That, that was one of, I, I knew I did not want to, State Department wasn't in my,
[02:19:54] but they're good people. They do, they do a hard job. They really do.
[02:19:58] So you, you wrap up that's one of the, what's out of two year billet? It's a two year billet.
[02:20:02] And I was there exactly two years. We left almost, I mean, exactly two years. And, uh,
[02:20:08] and now it must be time for your platoon commander tour because you already knocked out your AOS.
[02:20:12] Yeah. So my, everything now I'm aligned with, with the rest of my year group. So, uh, so I get sent
[02:20:19] to a team tent to do a platoon commander. And,
[02:20:24] the, because I came from, I think, because I came from Germany and I understood how
[02:20:34] the Africa com and you com work, I can see where this is going. That, they put me into that task.
[02:20:39] And, and again, I was fine with that because, you know, I'm here to support the effort.
[02:20:44] Nobody wants to do it. Then, you know, I don't have any buy breeding down my neck trying to get my spot.
[02:20:49] So, I'm, I'm finally getting my platoon commander and I'm, I'm just stoked about it.
[02:20:55] So I show up to, uh, team tent and, uh, I get in the task unit and I, kind of get an indication,
[02:21:03] pretty soon that, the, all the guys that just came back were in, I think was Iraq.
[02:21:13] Yeah, I think they, they, they came in from Iraq. Me was African as they had, but they just come back.
[02:21:17] They had a really good deployment, high energy intensive, and, uh, but now they are on the U-com.
[02:21:26] And we had a bunch of, you know, new guys who never, I hadn't deployed yet, and they're on U-com.
[02:21:32] And they're seeing all their friends getting ready to go to Afghanistan, Iraq, as I think we're,
[02:21:38] we're still sending people to both. So, yeah, there was that kind of idea that, you know,
[02:21:45] what, that's where we want to be, and I get that. But, uh, as our, uh, mutual chief,
[02:21:52] used to say, uh, you know, orders aren't imitations. They're, they're orders. And this is what you're given.
[02:22:00] And you need to, it's, it's our responsibility as the leadership to make sure our guys are,
[02:22:06] are ready for that. And that's, that's what I was doing. But, there was a lot of, you know,
[02:22:12] if we do really well, then, you know, we'll get move over to here, some I will get fired,
[02:22:16] and, you know, we'll, we'll be able to take that mission. And, and again, there's always that chance.
[02:22:21] And, but there's also the chance you're going to do with the, the work you were assigned to.
[02:22:25] What you were assigned to do. So, we really need to focus on that. And there, there was a big,
[02:22:31] I guess, kind of rub between, you know, me and, and the leadership. And it's,
[02:22:36] especially being in Germany for two years, I, I, I saw platoons come out all the time.
[02:22:39] And you can tell the ones that were ready to do the mission and accepting. And they did a great job.
[02:22:46] And then the ones that are like, hey, we're just sitting here until we get the word that we're going in.
[02:22:52] And guess what, the word never comes. You know, I mean, I get it. They made take ones or two,
[02:22:57] because somebody gets hurt, but, you know, we have a mission too here. So, there was a big,
[02:23:04] leadership challenge on my side is, you know, I need to keep the guys motivated and arrested.
[02:23:08] And this job, and I would tell me, you know, there's, there's good stuff going on. There's,
[02:23:12] there's really important stuff. And, and for the most part, I think the guys accepted that.
[02:23:18] Some, some didn't, but, but, yeah, that's, it's a tough, tough thing to work through.
[02:23:23] I remember one thing that I was, I always stuck in my mind. There was a, a, a
[02:23:30] Master G faculty. So, Master G faculty, who died in 2017, but he was a huge, had a big impact on all of us.
[02:23:40] The team won at that time. But I remember him telling me a story that there was a Vietnam guy that had
[02:23:45] come home that had done like a pretty heroic, a deployment in Vietnam. And that guy was facts like LPO.
[02:23:53] And they're out in the desert, doing the desert warfare training. And that guy who was like the combat
[02:24:02] vet, he was like, they're out on patrol. And he had his like rifle up over shoulder,
[02:24:10] then just kind of like walking like it didn't matter. And, and he just, and he was, he, I think he was
[02:24:16] the Paltune Chief. And you could see the just disappointment as FAC was telling me this story.
[02:24:24] And it was one of those things that, again, he probably told me that when I was 22 or 23,
[02:24:30] I never forgot that fact, not only of, hey, don't be the guy that's like been there done that.
[02:24:39] I don't need to be fired up for training anymore. But also, what an impact that has on
[02:24:44] everybody else. And you don't want to be like that. Then fast forward, however many years,
[02:24:52] I was now at Tray that West Coast Tray that. And I had a guy that's a great guy. And he was in,
[02:25:00] he was in Ramadi with me as a new guy. And now he's in his second platoon. And we're out at the
[02:25:05] Mount Facility. And like, you know, it's we're training hard and kicking ass in bubblebaw. And I talked
[02:25:14] him about whatever, but I remember him saying to me, he says, uh, I'm kind of getting burned out.
[02:25:24] And this is during Mount Training in his second platoon. And I'm like, I just, I go, hey, bro,
[02:25:29] you remember when you and I were in a work up together? And he goes, yeah, and I go, that was my
[02:25:34] seventh work up. And he was like, he just got that look on his face. And he goes, Roger that.
[02:25:40] Because I was fired up in my seventh freaking time to go. Let's rock and roll. Like,
[02:25:45] every taking everything seriously. And that's just what you want to do. So that infection can spread.
[02:25:54] And it's a hard pill as well. Team guys want to go to combat. Just what they want to do. And
[02:25:58] when they don't get the chance, it hurts. And but like you said, you got to pick it up. Okay,
[02:26:05] this is what we're doing. Let's do it through the best of our ability. And the only thing you
[02:26:09] do is just keep going on deployments. Like, the God of War is going to do what he's going to do.
[02:26:15] And hopefully you get blessed by him. And if that happens, great. And if it doesn't happen,
[02:26:21] keep working because he's watching. That's the way I look at it. Yeah. And you, and you saw it,
[02:26:27] you know, guys would, you know, kind of have to get through that rotation. But then the next one,
[02:26:33] they go back or, you know, they get another shot at the combat. And, you know, we all knew
[02:26:39] eventually it was going to calm down anyway. But nobody knows when. And you don't want to miss it.
[02:26:44] You want to miss it. And I really felt for the new guys because, you know, all they're seeing
[02:26:48] is their friends that are going and they didn't do anything wrong. And that was really a
[02:26:54] big kind of complaint that I had about how it was perceived is, you know, we're waiting for,
[02:27:03] you know, if they get into trouble, then we get into that spot. It's like, well, so are we here?
[02:27:07] Because we got in trouble, you know, how do we end up paying? How do we hoping that our teammates
[02:27:10] are screwed up? Yeah. Because that's not a good attitude. So we get that spot. So I, you know,
[02:27:16] my thing was, look, again, the war is bigger than just what's going on in St. Com.
[02:27:22] We have a mission to do. It's a good mission. It has value. And, you know, thinking back,
[02:27:30] you know, maybe I could have done better on certain things. But, but yeah, I mean, it was,
[02:27:36] it was what it was. And we actually had a good deployment. I took a crew of people to Africa.
[02:27:45] And we were there for several months. And we, we did good stuff. And, you know, I like to think
[02:27:51] that we, you know, move the needle, hopefully a little bit. But, but it was, yeah, you know, I think,
[02:27:57] and I think most people that were with us kind of got that after a while. And then what you
[02:28:02] do when you got home from that deployment? So I got home. And so I'm looking at to you,
[02:28:09] to Amanda. And, but I didn't want to stay at Team 10 for different reasons. But, but those
[02:28:21] positions were already filled. So it's like, okay, I need to move on. And so now I'm, I'm caught up
[02:28:27] to my year group. But it's still a little bit different because I've had all these other experiences
[02:28:34] and because of a lot of the, you know, victim of my own success. A lot of the schools I went to kind
[02:28:40] of put me on a little bit of a different track, which was fine. And so I end up taking a,
[02:28:51] an opt tour at another command there in Virginia. And which was great. And again, great experiences
[02:28:58] and everything. But it's, it's kind of where I was when that was coming to an end, they,
[02:29:07] I met with the detailer. So now I'm at 21 years, 21 and a half years. And I met with the detailer.
[02:29:15] And I wanted to take over East Coast training, the CEO of that kind of, what you did, but on,
[02:29:22] on the East Coast. And I knew the guy that had the position, good friend. And I talked to him about it. He's like,
[02:29:28] oh yeah, you would do great here. And it, it lined up. And so I talked to the detailer and it goes,
[02:29:37] you need more joint time. I'm like, okay. Which means, you know, you get orders to probably Tampa.
[02:29:45] And you move your family there. And at least at the time, the new deploy overseas for a year,
[02:29:52] her so, and right reports for others. And it worked on your JMP and, you know, all that. And
[02:30:00] your family sits there and, because it's a PCS move. And at the time, you know, my wife had a great
[02:30:07] job in Virginia. She was working for the, the governor's office. And, you know, she wasn't really
[02:30:12] wanting to move. So I was like, oh, go, you know, maybe I can do kind of a batch or kind of thing.
[02:30:18] And, but then I thought, you know, it's, I had 21 years. And I think maybe this is time that I find
[02:30:27] something else. And I was very fortunate that Navy was great to me. I got to do everything that I wanted
[02:30:33] to do. I had a great career. And I, I felt like I had closure. And I don't, you know, put it on the
[02:30:40] detailer. I mean, he's, he's trying to fill these buildings. And for an officer at 10, 11 years,
[02:30:47] that is a great move. And, you know, that's going to set you up for your ex-O tour and, you know,
[02:30:55] probably another staff job in, in CO. But, you know, I wasn't an officer at 12 years. I was an
[02:31:00] officer at 21, 22 years. And I just, I just felt it was, it was time to, to retire and try something else.
[02:31:10] And, so, I went home and talked to my wife about it. And she's like, uh, I was like, yeah, I'm thinking
[02:31:17] about retiring. She's like, okay, whatever. Going Monday, dropped my, uh, my paperwork to, uh,
[02:31:24] to retire. And went back and like, okay, I did. She goes, what'd you do? I like retired. She goes,
[02:31:29] you did what? It's like, yeah, yeah, I did it. How long was it between, when you dropped your papers
[02:31:35] and when you actually retired? Probably about six months or so, yeah, you have to, I had a lot of,
[02:31:40] you know, leave, built up that I need to get rid of. And, um, I had made Lieutenant Commander,
[02:31:47] but because I wasn't doing the full time, they, they didn't commit, you know, go to that next step.
[02:31:54] And then I just retired to say, yeah, that's Lieutenant. Oh, those savages. Well, you know,
[02:32:00] they're like, you know, you have to do another three years. And honestly, I did the math.
[02:32:04] Yeah. And they're going from O3E to O4 is not that big of a jump. They ain't going from a regular
[02:32:11] O3, especially when you have, you know, 20 some years. And the math, I think I would have gotten
[02:32:17] maybe an extra $100 on my retirement. And it just wasn't worth another three years. I felt like
[02:32:24] that one, you know, I could do something else. So how was the transition? What'd you do next?
[02:32:28] Well, so it was a lot harder than I thought it would be because, you know, again, this, we grew up
[02:32:36] in the siltings. And we all, I mean, that's, that's what we knew, that's what we did. And, uh,
[02:32:42] even even to this day, you know, I tell people, I still have dreams that I'm still in uniform.
[02:32:48] And, you know, I'm, I'm mad at some command somewhere and I'm talking to people, but I'm,
[02:32:54] I'm still somebody just called because one of the guys got in trouble. Yeah. Like I always have got
[02:32:59] to put a report off. Yeah, got someone got arrested and so I'll get rid of the live like here we go.
[02:33:04] I got to go to get somebody out of jail, whatever. So, you know, I have to have a new focus.
[02:33:11] And, you know, a new mission. And so my thing was, I, I want to learn about business. I've
[02:33:17] been in government since I was 18, 19. And, you know, I've been in leadership positions and I,
[02:33:26] I think you would agree with you. The leadership's not different. There may be some different
[02:33:31] terms, but it's, it's all the same. But there's other things about business that I didn't really
[02:33:37] understand. Like, what is marketing and what is, you know, social media was a big, you know,
[02:33:42] was starting to be a big thing. And, you know, at that time, we couldn't even have, you know,
[02:33:47] any accounts on social media. And I think, I think it's changed now. I think it's a little bit
[02:33:51] better because it kind of hurts. Guys getting out that don't have that presence because that,
[02:33:57] that's how a lot of businesses is done now on LinkedIn and stuff. So, I felt, I, I need to learn
[02:34:06] business. I need to get, get more informed on that. And I still had half of my GI Bill left.
[02:34:14] So, I thought, you know, I could go to grad school, but I, I, I, I, I still want to learn a little
[02:34:21] bit more about how, how it runs first. So, so I, I make sure if I go to grad school for business
[02:34:26] degree, that's really what I want to do. So, I, I, I look for just a way to get into business.
[02:34:36] So, one thing, I had a friend who, a pilot friend that got out kind of the same time, he was
[02:34:41] starting a consulting company. And he asked me about coming on as say, kind of like a 1099 contractor.
[02:34:49] Excuse me. So, I, yeah, that's, that's fine. You know, I'll work with you and we'll do that.
[02:34:55] And as I was doing my, you know, the transition classes, the, what they call it, the call it,
[02:35:02] tap, I didn't do it. Yeah. I didn't do any of it. So, I did tap. I just said later. Yeah, it was,
[02:35:06] it was mostly a, I want, I want to say it's a waste of time. It's because it is, it had some value to
[02:35:13] it, but they had like this entrepreneur class, which was an hour, it was during your lunch hour. So,
[02:35:19] it's that you, you ate your lunch at a table and somebody talked about it. So, he said,
[02:35:24] if you want to start a business, just find something you like and start a business. So, I'm thinking,
[02:35:31] what, what do I like to do? What, what would be fun? I knew I did not want to do government.
[02:35:35] So, I didn't want to work for any of the alphabet, too, but I didn't want to do, you know, stay on,
[02:35:42] any of the commands or, you know, work work as a, as a GS, is wanting to do something totally different
[02:35:48] real business. And I thought, you know, I love music. I've been playing music on my life.
[02:35:55] I'm going to join a band. Somehow we missed this whole story. We were freaking music, did you play?
[02:36:01] I played a, a bright base. Well, actually, when I was, like, team one, I was at, I played saxophone.
[02:36:07] That's where it was. Remember that you played sax? I know we'd bring it on the trip,
[02:36:12] right? You'll tell, how I remember that. Yeah, I forgot about that. And I wrote,
[02:36:16] I wrote, I wrote, I wrote, and I was not that good. I was, I actually, I remember that.
[02:36:21] Yeah, I was, I was not good. And I played, you know, through high school and,
[02:36:25] and, but I was never really good enough to do it. But I always liked the base. It was always
[02:36:33] something that I really enjoyed. Did you play it? Would you just start, oh, so you just liked it?
[02:36:37] Yeah, okay. But I had enough music background that that I could, I could, I could figure out.
[02:36:43] I just bought one, started learning how to play. You say base or you're talking base guitar?
[02:36:48] Are you talking stand up base? No. So I had that time as electric. Okay. Base guitar.
[02:36:52] And, and for some reason, it just, it just came like it was natural.
[02:37:00] Easier than Vietnamese, apparently. Very, very much so. And so I kind of took some private lessons.
[02:37:07] And, and yeah, I just kind of took to it. And then after doing that for a while,
[02:37:13] I, as I was getting out, trying to find bands that the market was was pretty heavy with base
[02:37:23] players. It's, you know, probably a lot of guitar players that don't play that well play base.
[02:37:29] Yeah, and that's true. But that's what they told me. So, you know, I need to find how to
[02:37:34] be how to stand out. So I was like, you know, I'm going to learn how to play up right base. Because
[02:37:39] nobody wants to do it. It's a big instrument. You have to have a car or a truck to have to
[02:37:43] have a van and it's fretless. So, you know, it just scares people. But I'm going to learn it. So,
[02:37:50] I bought one. How much is it? How much is the stand up base cross? Like for your starter model that you get?
[02:37:55] So, I, I knew this is what I wanted to do. So, I didn't really kind of, I kind of started
[02:38:01] with the starter and got a nice kind of pro model, a, uh, angle heart. And, um, so it was about
[02:38:07] 2000, around 2000. That's it. Yeah. Dang, bro. And, uh, that's actually, well, way cheaper than I thought
[02:38:13] I was going to be. But, you know, it's a plywood. It's not like a car, you know, 200 year old. I have
[02:38:18] good electric guitars that are way more than that. Yeah. Oh, absolutely more than that.
[02:38:24] That's ridiculous amount of money because I'm stupid. But this, you know, it's a, it's a new one.
[02:38:30] It's not a classic. But it plays really well. And, uh, so I worked on that. So, when they don't have a
[02:38:34] fret, how do you know where to hold down? So, there are, I do have markers on the side, uh, it's
[02:38:40] like, uh, like the dots that are on a guitar. It's the same. And, uh, but you, you have to listen.
[02:38:46] And, and it really forced me to listen to what the rest of the band is doing and make sure,
[02:38:53] I'm, you know, got the right tone. And, um, yeah, I just, I worked on it. Like, I took six months.
[02:39:00] I've just, how many hours a day? Oh. Two, three hours. I've taken a break and go back to it.
[02:39:08] And, uh, yeah, just worked on it. So, you're mean five to six hours a day?
[02:39:11] Uh, not that much. Probably, yeah, about two or three hours. But you retired every day.
[02:39:16] Yeah. Well, no, I was, I was still kind of, uh, unrap it up your crap and up and, and go in through, uh,
[02:39:24] uh, in terms of relief, three, three to something three or four hours a day. Yeah. And, and then,
[02:39:30] when I felt comfortable, I started looking for, uh, for bands to play in. So I go on, you know,
[02:39:36] whilst would you go, but Craig's listening. Yeah. And, uh, just typed in up right
[02:39:42] base and sure enough, uh, the sky posted that he was doing an acoustic blues thing. And he was
[02:39:47] looking for an upright base and it's like, yeah, there's only one. You got the job. Yeah. Well,
[02:39:53] so I called him up and, uh, our message team or whatever. And he'd said, you know, show up to this
[02:40:00] open mic night. He learned to play in front of a real live audience. And he didn't tell me what
[02:40:07] we were going to play or anything. And, uh, so I showed up and he's like, I, you know, we're playing
[02:40:13] in this key. And I, I was all over the place. I mean, I was, I was nervous. This was, it was my first
[02:40:20] time playing live, but, you know, I was just trying to follow what was going on. Yeah, because you
[02:40:24] played sex live in eighth grade, eighth grade, eighth grade, Freak and Stephen Calsolini.
[02:40:32] It wasn't that bad. But yeah, I played a couple of songs. I was like, yeah, that really sucked.
[02:40:40] And, uh, afterwards he goes, okay, yeah, let's, let's meet next week and, and do another three. I'm
[02:40:45] like, okay. And by that time now, I knew kind of what he was looking for. And, uh, we, we did it.
[02:40:52] And, and then we're like, yeah, let's start a band. I brought in a friend of mine that was a drummer.
[02:40:58] And, uh, eventually a sax player. And we created the band. And, and my intent, again, was not
[02:41:07] really to be a musician. It, or an artist really. And I don't really consider myself an artist.
[02:41:13] I'm artistic, and I can, I understand, you know, how to do it. But I wanted to run the business.
[02:41:21] So I wanted to, you know, manage the books. I wanted to work on the marketing. I wanted to learn
[02:41:26] how the, uh, how the social media worked and how that, you know, worked into getting us gigs.
[02:41:34] And, uh, then we got into recording and writing. And I helped, you know, write, uh, some of the songs.
[02:41:39] And we recorded a couple of albums. So we could sell. Because that was a big thing when you were gigging.
[02:41:44] You know, it's, it's great to get that, that, uh, you know, that money for the night. But if you have
[02:41:49] merch, right? merch. Get the merch out there. Then, you know, we, we saw things go up. And we could show,
[02:41:55] I could show each year, you know, we were making more money. And we were doing, uh, doing better.
[02:42:00] How often are you gigging? So, you know, the first year, probably about 30 or so gig.
[02:42:07] Hey, but by the third year, I mean, we were touring. So I would do a two week. So now you're out of the
[02:42:12] Navy completely. Yeah. And you're going on tour. Yeah. Your blues band and plant stand up base. Yep.
[02:42:18] And, uh, herbidian the danger man is the, uh, are you still, are you still around?
[02:42:23] No. So I'll, I'll get to that in a minute. But the, um, so by the third year, we're playing probably
[02:42:29] 180 gigs, making money, making money, yeah. Getting playing how big of a show. Clubs, yeah. I mean,
[02:42:36] we would get a couple of festivals. We would get, uh, you know, mostly bars, you know, that, that kind of
[02:42:41] see. What do you make a night in the bar? Uh, it depends on how much you are, but, you know, four,
[02:42:46] 400 bucks, 500 bucks. And how many people are in the band? A four. Yeah. So from a business perspective.
[02:42:53] Yeah. I mean, but we're thinking to try something else. No, no, not at all. So it makes you
[02:42:59] really look at the, the business model. And because all all businesses have, have the same, all
[02:43:07] successful businesses have the same, uh, concept. You got to make it for a dime. You got to sell it for
[02:43:14] a dollar. You got to make it have it for me. If you don't do that, you're going to go out of business.
[02:43:20] Now, you can supplement it with outs, outside income, but eventually it'll fold. You got to make
[02:43:26] it for a dime, sell it for a dollar and make it have it for you. Did you make that up right there?
[02:43:31] Or no, I learned it when I was, uh, and, and my MBA program. That one's wrong. That was,
[02:43:37] that was basically my MBA and, and those, those three sentences that, that was two years of grad school.
[02:43:43] But, um, but it makes you, especially, and, and, uh, adventure like that, it really makes you look
[02:43:48] at your cost. You know, are you really making it for a dime or are you spending 90 cents?
[02:43:54] And of course, the numbers are arbitrary. But, if, if you're, if you're not, then how do you cut that down?
[02:44:02] So, as we were touring, you know, in the beginning, we were getting hotel rooms. Of course,
[02:44:07] we were all staying in the same room because, you know, there four guys. But, eventually, we're like,
[02:44:13] okay, how can we cut that down? So, we, uh, like, one of the things we got on, uh, couch surfing.
[02:44:20] If you heard of this? Yes, I have. So, we, when I was 19, yeah, exactly. Well, we had a band profile.
[02:44:28] As, uh, uh, for, for couch surfing, and as we were, as I was making the tour, I would say, okay,
[02:44:35] we're going to be in this town. We would submit, you know, hey, this four piece band is coming
[02:44:41] to town. Could we stay at your house and surprisingly, a lot of people, uh, let us do it.
[02:44:46] And it's, it's free. It's free. And, uh, and of course, we would, we would try to do special stuff.
[02:44:53] So, we, of course, get Masey D or T shirt or something. And, uh, and if we were there for
[02:45:00] a day or two, we'd break out the instruments in their living room and just give them a little
[02:45:05] concert. And it was, yeah, it was, it was great. And what was really nice about it
[02:45:11] is because we stayed with them. We told them where we were playing that night. They would usually
[02:45:15] come out and bring some friends. So that would, uh, you know, butts and seats. That's a big part of it.
[02:45:21] So, yeah, make it four-dime. You got to get your cost down. And, uh, and we learned, you know,
[02:45:26] like, by your water, not at a gas station, by it Walmart before you go because it's cheaper.
[02:45:31] Yeah. And all these little things to get it, uh, the price down. And then you look at,
[02:45:36] are you selling it for a dollar? You know, are you really getting the, the top price? And you
[02:45:42] don't set the price. The market sets the price. You know, it's applying demand. And, uh, so that's what,
[02:45:47] you know, we're focusing on where can we get the best bang for our buck? You know, if we play at a,
[02:45:54] at a, uh, a festival or something, you know, the focus is on the money you get to play,
[02:46:01] the focus is on the merch. So, having the guys actually push the merch, you know, put the
[02:46:08] CDs in your hand as you go around and talk to people because they see it in your hand, they want to buy it.
[02:46:13] And, you know, just sit back and wait for them to come to you. You got to get out. So, are you,
[02:46:17] you know, making that price? And, is there enough of a profit margin there that the business
[02:46:22] is actually going to, to survive? And then the most important part, as you know, you got to
[02:46:27] make it have it for me. You know, if somebody just watches you wants and I like, hey, that was great.
[02:46:32] And they don't follow you. Then how are you going to sell them, you know, the new album when it
[02:46:36] comes out? Or, you know, you're, you're new, you know, the new song or whatever, you got to get that,
[02:46:43] that fan, you know, down the, the funnel to, to get them from interested to fan to real fanatic
[02:46:52] of, you know, the super fan, or they're going to buy your stuff as soon as it comes out.
[02:46:58] So, that's what I learned during that time, you know, how, how do you actually physically
[02:47:04] do that? And so, we did it for four years and, uh, had, was that your job for four years? Yes. So,
[02:47:11] I was doing a little bit of the consulting on the side and there were other like 1099 type
[02:47:17] jobs that I was doing from here to there. But, you know, again, I was very fortunate that I married
[02:47:23] up. So, my wife was making good money. We don't have any kids. So, you know, I'm not putting
[02:47:28] anyone through college and I have a good retirement. So, I was able to do that full time.
[02:47:36] It's what happened. So, have the end. Well, it's like any business, you know, you, you have that
[02:47:41] arc and there comes a point where you got to pivot our parish and we have been playing kind of the
[02:47:47] same material for how many albums did you make? Two. Well, one EP, one LP. And I watched a couple
[02:47:54] of your songs on YouTube. Yeah. I thought it was pretty cool. Like a Tarist. I think this was like a
[02:47:59] thing, right? You had that, there's a song where he's playing a guitar that only has three strings.
[02:48:03] Yeah. GGB. So, we call it. Yeah. That was pretty cool. And you think, okay, well, he's got some,
[02:48:08] like the white stripes. He's got some constraints around what he can do and it's going to make him kind
[02:48:13] of push a little bit. I thought that was pretty cool. It is. And that was, you know, kind of the,
[02:48:17] you got to break away from the homininshrum and, you know, the normal stuff. You got to keep
[02:48:22] updating, especially in the entertainment world because there's so much competing with your attention.
[02:48:28] And so after about four years, we needed to kind of change some things. But the, the lead guy was,
[02:48:38] you know, he was kind of comfortable where he was and we could have kind of gone, you know,
[02:48:42] a little bit further. But the, but the sax player wanted to do some other stuff. So he, he left.
[02:48:48] And we tried to bring in some other people and then I was like, you know, this is the time to
[02:48:54] make a difference. We got to totally change because we tried to keep doing the same thing.
[02:48:59] We're going to start losing people. And that's what happened. We didn't really change enough
[02:49:04] drastically that we started to lose fans. And by that point, you know, I've been out of the
[02:49:11] Navy been retired for about five years, four, yeah, about four years. And I had enough of a grasp of,
[02:49:19] okay, this is the things I need to work on that I was like, okay, I'm going back to grad school.
[02:49:24] So, um, the, I still played a little bit on the side. We did some some duo stuff. But now I was,
[02:49:31] I was focused on going back to grad school for my MBA. And that's why I did. And how was that program?
[02:49:37] It was good. I did it at the ultimate university there. Because it was close, you know, it was
[02:49:43] easy to get back. A lot of people in that area went to Odeeew. So, you know, we had planned to stay there
[02:49:52] for the long term. So it made sense. And, you know, the GI Bill covered it. So, you know, the cost was low.
[02:50:01] I was a dime. And the return was hopefully a dollar. And it was good. So, it, yeah.
[02:50:09] Did you do anything with that degree? So, yes. So, I, once I got, I actually, while I was in school,
[02:50:17] I had talked to a couple of business owners that needed someone to help do kind of do diligence on some,
[02:50:26] some business stuff. So, it was small companies that were expanding and looking to do some different things.
[02:50:33] And I actually still were formed today. But they would, so I would, you know, do like the, the analysis on it.
[02:50:42] You know, is this the right thing to do? They're a developer. So, they would buy property.
[02:50:48] And then they would say, okay, what business can we put on here to make money and then we'll turn it over.
[02:50:53] So, I would do kind of the analysis of, you know, we do this. You, and you take out a loan.
[02:50:58] Here's all your initial costs. If you can keep your, you know, fixed variable cost, all that.
[02:51:03] Then you can make a profit over a certain period of years. And then they would say, okay, let's, let's do it.
[02:51:08] So, so yeah, more of a kind of a business analysis.
[02:51:16] Yeah, kind of, kind of work. And it's, it's, it's good work. And when you actually see something,
[02:51:21] one of the projects we did and it made great money. And so I got to see all that developed.
[02:51:30] And, and so yeah, it was, it was really interesting, especially to be able to,
[02:51:35] kind of say, this is what I think is happening. And then you look at how close it actually did.
[02:51:40] It's not perfect. But it was good. It was a really, it's a good thing.
[02:51:44] And is that bringing us up to present day? Yeah. So, well, so when I was in, in grad school, my wife got
[02:51:54] diagnosed with breast cancer. And yeah, that was, it was good being out of the military.
[02:52:02] Although, you know, the teams were great about that stuff. But because I was home every day,
[02:52:07] it was good that I could, I could be there and kind of work because it took like two years to go through it.
[02:52:14] From time she was diagnosed, she had three or four surgeries, then the chemo. And then the
[02:52:24] recovery from all that. Took about, took about two years. And so I was home for all that.
[02:52:30] I was still going to school. But I could, I could manage it because, you know, most of the stuff was,
[02:52:35] was at home. And so she went through that. And when we kind of got through that, it was,
[02:52:48] and still in the recovery stage, we kind of got into a rut of, because she just didn't have any
[02:52:55] energy. So we're staying at home all the time, watching TV, just, you know, eating three meals a day or
[02:53:02] whatever. And just was a lot of activity. And at one point I was like, you know, we need to break this cycle.
[02:53:09] And so we bought a small 16-foot camper. And I was like, we're, you know, we talked about this.
[02:53:17] We, we need to at least once a month, just get out of the house. We didn't have a TV in it.
[02:53:22] It was, you know, just just a nice, it was an air stream, a base camp. I don't know.
[02:53:28] And we're like, we just need to get out of the house at least once a month. And just kind of get back.
[02:53:34] Even if we just walk around a little bit, or, and there was a campground right there in Virginia.
[02:53:41] So we did that for about two years as she was recovering, just going out, just getting into
[02:53:47] nature and just, you know, trying to get past that. And after doing that for two years,
[02:53:54] we were like, why aren't we doing this all the time? So we decided that,
[02:54:01] about this was about 15 months ago, we said, hey, let's just, let's just sell our house and get
[02:54:07] rid of all the extra cars and extra furniture and stuff. We have laying around, let's get, we'll
[02:54:12] get a bigger camper because 16 feet is not that small enough to live. How big is your new one?
[02:54:17] 30. We have a 30-foot air stream. Yeah. And so we traded that in.
[02:54:21] And got the 30-foot sold our place. It was a good time for the market. And so yeah, for the past
[02:54:29] 15 months, we've just been touring around North America. Just going from place to place,
[02:54:37] trying to hit a lot of the national parks in America. It's just such a beautiful place and,
[02:54:44] growing up in the Navy, we traveled all over the place. But never really got to see a lot of the
[02:54:50] US, even non-training trips. You know, really get to see much. So yeah, that's what we've been doing
[02:54:55] for past 50 months. I still, she retired totally after her chemo. She lost a lot of that drive.
[02:55:04] So we just saw, you know, why don't you take some time off? And I still do part-time work.
[02:55:11] It's all remote. It's a semi-emails when they need stuff. Do sometimes I take a business trip
[02:55:17] and we're, you know, I'll fly someplace and come back. But yeah, we just been doing that and
[02:55:23] seeing people like, you know, opportunity to be here and see you's one of the big benefits.
[02:55:30] And as you see in the end in sight, no, not right now. Just going to keep rolling. Just keep doing
[02:55:35] it. Every place we go, we say, hey, what, you know, would we come back here to live? And,
[02:55:42] you know, if we, there's some, some places we really like, but what's the top of the list right now?
[02:55:49] We really like Denver, Colorado. They have a really good blue scene. So I have my, a bright base with me.
[02:55:55] Takes a path of recon vehicle. It does take up a lot. But I have like my little space
[02:56:01] sober by the bed. I can keep anything I want. That's my music room. And, but we, yeah, when we go to
[02:56:08] these places, I look up blue stamps and show up and, and get to play with some phenomenal people.
[02:56:14] And, uh, yeah, it's, it's just part of the, just traveling around, meeting people and seeing
[02:56:21] really a friends and family. I, I got to see some family in Texas that, some on her side that she'd never,
[02:56:28] or I'd never met before. And, I, we'd been married over 30 years. Friends team, you know,
[02:56:34] guys from the team that now live in all kinds of places. And, you know, we stay connected and say,
[02:56:40] I'm going to be in from this time. If you got time, I'd love to see if not, you know, I understand.
[02:56:45] And, uh, so it's, yeah, it's been awesome. For an awesome, and you're tracking this whole thing on the
[02:56:49] gram on Instagram. Yeah, my, my wife runs most of that. It's, uh, taking leave under score RV.
[02:56:57] And she, you know, post every day because, you know, how important you got it.
[02:57:01] For social media, you, you got to be consistent. Are you playing any based riffs on your Instagram?
[02:57:07] Yeah. So I think the people are going to hear that. Yeah. She, uh, she records it live and then,
[02:57:12] you know, post it later. But yeah, when we go to these jams, I, I'm, I'm up there playing. So,
[02:57:16] sure. It's, uh, well, that's outstanding. Hi, hey, probably a good place to wrap it up. Echo Charles.
[02:57:23] Yes, sir. Do you have any questions? Yes, all right. So you ran. Go back to high school.
[02:57:27] Or yeah. All right. You did do cross country. Have you been saying a question for free
[02:57:32] in two and hours and 45 minutes? That's correct. You know, my school didn't have cross country. I
[02:57:38] think some of the other districts did, uh, but my, my school was very, time somewhat, in an urban area.
[02:57:46] So we had track. And most, most of the guys were, were springers. So, uh, the, uh, so we, we didn't
[02:57:53] have cross country, but we had long distance on the track, which is, you know, going eight circles.
[02:58:00] What cross country would have been your jam? Yeah. I would have loved to do it. And, of course,
[02:58:05] I ran a lot outside of, uh, just track, but, uh, but, yeah, like today, uh,
[02:58:13] another thing I try to do as we, as we travel, I, I look for great runs, you know, running,
[02:58:19] running places. And I've been kicking around a, uh, a YouTube video because I carry a camera with me.
[02:58:26] And I kind of film little parts of the run. And then when I get back, I, uh, of course, upload
[02:58:33] all that and then put together these four to five minute videos of, you know, this is all, kind of the
[02:58:39] data of the run. You know, this is how far it is. This is the elevation. You know, there's a lot of
[02:58:44] hills as it's straight. We're kind of a turf is it? Um, you know, where do you park? You know, here's the
[02:58:50] address you want to use to get to a parking areas or support. You know, is there going to be a bathroom
[02:58:55] there or, or what? And, uh, so I've gotten about 30 runs done with, with, with the raw material,
[02:59:04] I just started kind of putting them together. I've got four completed and I've got my process down
[02:59:10] to about four hours. So the first one took about a couple of days because I, you had to figure out
[02:59:16] the format. It's like that goes, pace on making it. So now, yeah, I can get five six minute video
[02:59:23] done and about four to five hours. So, you know, again, it's, make it four dime, sell it four dollar.
[02:59:29] You know, if it takes me a couple of weeks to do one video, it's, because you got to be consistent,
[02:59:34] as you know, you got to post consistently to get a good following. Would you say that you're, uh,
[02:59:41] as far as what you'd prefer as far as runs go, do you prefer the two mile, one mile or eight,
[02:59:45] eight, or eight hundred meter. Yeah, so the half mile is not a decent run. I don't know.
[02:59:50] That's a sprint. Yeah. I mean, the guys that are doing it are our sprinting. And,
[02:59:55] I don't know why it was like this, but I remember the track meets like the first run was the two mile.
[03:00:01] Then it was the one mile. Then the last one was an eight eight. So I've already run two races
[03:00:07] and I'm, I'm more out. And now you've got to sprint the eight eight. So I like the distance running.
[03:00:14] And the runs I do now are anywhere from five to 12 miles. What's your fastest mile?
[03:00:21] Back in the day. So when I was running, uh, back in the day, when I was running marathons,
[03:00:28] then I could get down to a good, um, round seven minutes, seven, low over seven minutes.
[03:00:38] In for a marathon. For, yeah, for a for a marathon. What about like when you were competing
[03:00:42] in track or whatever? Yeah, that got down. I think about a six and a half somewhere around there,
[03:00:49] but I'm not doing that now. Now it's, I'm more long for the ride. I'm trying to like,
[03:00:55] I want to look at the things and yeah, say talking about YouTube, what one last thing I want to talk
[03:01:00] about or just at least explain, uh, you made a really cool video about your grandfather. Yes.
[03:01:04] That was a pretty cool that people might want to check out. Yeah, I, you know, I attribute that to,
[03:01:09] uh, really to you, Jaco, it, you know, listen as podcasts when my favorite things when you have
[03:01:15] guys from, you know, World War II, Korea, the, you know, the Vietnam and just the stories that they
[03:01:22] telling everybody's got a story. And, uh, when I, when I, when I, here that, I remember my, my
[03:01:31] grandfather actually both of them, both served in, in World War II. And, but my, my one grandfather
[03:01:42] was, was just a very introverted and he was in the army. He was in the, the mechanized in tanks.
[03:01:48] And, uh, he went over as a replacement for, uh, for the, uh, was the 81st tank battalion. And, uh,
[03:02:01] but he never talked about it. When, when I was growing up, I would spend summers working on the farm
[03:02:07] with him. And, uh, he never mentioned it. And, at that time, you know, I didn't know what it has for,
[03:02:13] you know, you know, tell me about the war. And, uh, but he, beating every, but he, it wasn't like it's
[03:02:19] just me. He never talked about with his kids or, you know, his family. It was just a part of his life
[03:02:25] that was kind of in the past. And, and, uh, just never talked about it. So, and he passed away, uh, in the,
[03:02:32] in the early 90s. When a couple of, about a year or so ago, my aunt brought me his,
[03:02:40] like his old photo albums from that, that time. And it also had all of his military paperwork
[03:02:48] in a twitch, you know, you think of our field jackets, or pretty thick. Back then, it was like a
[03:02:54] page or two. I mean, there, there wasn't, wasn't much at all. Like go to war, cool your home.
[03:02:58] Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, so, because of my, my time, I was able to look at these and,
[03:03:06] and kind of understand, all right. So, he was at this unit at this time, and he was actually in
[03:03:12] the fourth calf back when they had horses. Damn. So, you know, to think about that, that time of
[03:03:19] when your main asset was a horse. I, you know, this, this, this, Enlil that has its own personality.
[03:03:26] And, you know, you think of what we drive today. And, uh, but, but that, you know, that's, that's part of
[03:03:33] your main thing. So, uh, so I was able to come up with a timeline of where he was, what units,
[03:03:39] he was in. Then I spent some time just reading books on it. So, finding books about that unit
[03:03:46] overall, reading it, reading about that time, reading about the, the operations to kind of get
[03:03:51] a better idea of what he did, or what he may have done, because I, I don't know for sure, I never,
[03:03:57] he never told me. But I was able, especially on the internet, I was able to find some after action,
[03:04:02] like, they're monthly reporting from that unit when he was, uh, when he was over in,
[03:04:10] in Germany as they were pushing to the Rhine. And, uh, and of course, I've written plenty of
[03:04:16] after action reports. You can kind of read between the lines sometimes, but it had great data.
[03:04:22] And I was able to kind of take all of his pictures that he had in his albums,
[03:04:27] digitize them, and then go kind of walk through the store using all these external sources
[03:04:35] and say, okay, this is, you know, where he would have been during this time. This is what happened
[03:04:40] near in that time. So, he was probably on this, uh, this cavalry march, or he was probably in the
[03:04:48] tanks when they got hit on it. So, I kind of found the, the one day that he probably was in combat
[03:04:54] for the first time, you know, where they first took casualties. And again, I don't know for sure,
[03:04:58] but, uh, but I was able to kind of create a timeline. So, I create a video of all of his pictures.
[03:05:06] So, when I'm doing the voiceover, and I'm telling the stories, there's showing pictures of
[03:05:13] kind of that period of time, and so you kind of get an idea. And I, and I totally just did it for my
[03:05:18] family because they didn't have really any stories from him. And, uh, yeah, I set kind of a deadline
[03:05:26] to have it by veterans day. I missed it by a little bit, but I wanted to do it before the holidays.
[03:05:31] So, when they were with their kids, they could watch it with them, and kind of understand who their
[03:05:36] grandfather was and where he came from. And, uh, so, yeah, that's, uh, that's what you saw.
[03:05:41] What's the YouTube channel that that's on? So, it's on my personal channel, but his name is
[03:05:46] Everett Wees. I think the name of the, uh, the, the, the video is, you know, corporal Everett Wees.
[03:05:57] So, if you spell Wees, W, I, W, E, I, W, E, I, SS, W, I, E, S, E.
[03:06:02] Oh, okay, so it's, it's charming. But, it's, uh, completely W, I, yes, and yeah, Everett Wees, um, yeah, W, I,
[03:06:09] E, S, E. But, uh, yeah, I mean, uh, one of our mutual friends sent that to me and told me to check it out.
[03:06:14] It's very cool. Um, awesome stuff. If there's one thing that could say that I've found
[03:06:21] that I don't like about this, is, or the no mad lifestyle, the no mad, yeah, is the van,
[03:06:28] vagabond. Um, it's, it's, because you're traveling around so much, you're moving, you know, we
[03:06:34] move every, uh, two weeks to a month. You really lose that kind of connection to a community.
[03:06:42] And, uh, for example, like for, two, just two, for the, before we did this, I was training,
[03:06:50] I'll be at, I was, you know, white belt, no striped. But, uh, and if I could, I give a shout out to
[03:06:56] coastal BJJ, they're in Virginia Beach, phenomenal. Jim, they, they were awesome, you know,
[03:07:02] guide, white hair coming in at 50, they, they, uh, they, they took really, really good care of me,
[03:07:08] Nester and the guys down there just, just awesome guys. And, um, so I was, I was training with them
[03:07:14] and, and it was, it was that, that community, but by doing this, you got to leave that.
[03:07:21] And I, and I, and I talked to him before I left us, like, you know, what do you think it,
[03:07:24] you know, can I just go to another gym and, and, and he said yes, but what I found, especially with
[03:07:31] COVID, it's tough to kind of show up for just a couple of weeks and, you know, nobody knows where
[03:07:39] you've been and, you know, I think the light gyms is just like this, because it's such close contact,
[03:07:44] that, you know, they kind of stay in their own. And, uh, and it's, it's tough to, uh, to kind of be part of
[03:07:52] that community. And, uh, I think we're going to change that as, as we go through this lifestyle.
[03:07:59] We're finding that, uh, the first year and a half, we've been jumping around so much,
[03:08:06] that we kind of need to home base a little bit more. So we have a property down in Florida.
[03:08:12] And, uh, so our plan is for the winners. We'll, we'll probably be there.
[03:08:17] And spend about five, six months there, and then be kind of part of that community. And then,
[03:08:24] for the summer, pick a place, like, uh, I think this year, we're going to go all the way up to
[03:08:27] Maine. Oh, so we're going to hit, uh, those areas. And then maybe the next year, go out, maybe
[03:08:32] back out to the West Coast, like we did this year, just wearing Maine to see people farming to Maine.
[03:08:37] Go up to the origin factory. You know, the deal. You get people to train jiu-jitsu with,
[03:08:42] come to the camp. We have camp in August. Okay. It's freaking awesome. Actually, I might be there.
[03:08:46] Yeah, they're in that tom on up, man. It's, it's, it's awesome. I mean, it's so cool.
[03:08:51] There's several hundred people there from all over the world to train jiu-jitsu hang out.
[03:08:58] It's, it's great. Yeah. Again, I'm, I'm white belt. There's all kinds of white belts there.
[03:09:03] Okay. No factor. No factor at all. Come and get it. All right. That'd be freaking legit.
[03:09:08] I'll look for those dates. Right. Any other closing thoughts, man? Yeah, thanks to my wife that
[03:09:13] supports all of this, this, this crazy thing that we do and she's just, I mean, she's my best friend.
[03:09:23] And we've been married, coming up on 31 years and just no one else that I want to do that
[03:09:29] do this with. So, really appreciate her. Right, oh, man. Well, thanks for coming all
[03:09:35] man. Thanks for, thanks for sharing your stories, thanks for sharing your lessons. Thanks for your service
[03:09:41] to the country, to the Navy, to the teams. And thanks for being someone I'll always be able to call
[03:09:47] friend, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. So Chris, he's gone. He stepped out.
[03:09:57] You, you may have heard people say there's no standard day in the seal teams. That's absolutely true.
[03:10:03] You don't have, hey, this is just a normal day. But what I think this highlights is,
[03:10:08] there's just no kind of standard career. There's so many different directions things can go
[03:10:14] that you're just going to have a different experience. And what's cool is you can have some control over
[03:10:19] that experience. You have, you get, you have the capability of adjusting. I mean, you look at
[03:10:26] Giff and I, very, you know, came in at the same time. We're in the same buzz class. We kind of like the same
[03:10:32] same, we're on the same path. And yet, you know, he's speaking Vietnamese. We, I'm, we both became
[03:10:39] radiomen. But he's speaking Vietnamese. Just all these different things happen. He ends up like doing the
[03:10:45] advanced special operation stuff. Just, it's just different things happen. And you just get different
[03:10:51] experiences. So it's that to me is a benefit to joining the military is, and I can only really
[03:11:01] say this with 100% certainty about the seal teams because that's where I spent my time. But most of
[03:11:08] the military, everyone I talked with the same thing. You have, it's like a choose your own adventure book.
[03:11:14] The chances that somebody else chooses the same adventure as you is very small. So awesome to talk
[03:11:20] to Chris and, and here, and here is, because because he's a friend of the other that's crazy
[03:11:27] to think about the seal teams. Like your friends come and go and you may not see a guy for like,
[03:11:33] when I saw him downstairs, I don't think I seen him for probably 15 years, 15 years. We, we, and we,
[03:11:41] he hit me up, got his my number, whatever. And he's like, hey, hey, Joc, I'm in town. I'm like,
[03:11:45] oh, cool, you want to come hang out, you want to be on the podcast? Because, oh, yeah,
[03:11:48] I'll be awesome. I listen to it all the time. So just, but no, no like, well, how of you, but no,
[03:11:52] because it's a shared, you have this shared common background. And then with that shared,
[03:11:57] come and background, your friends, you're like, cool, I have friends I don't talk to. If I saw him
[03:12:02] tomorrow, be like, hey, you know, no factors, like no factor. That's the only,
[03:12:08] may I, there's no, hey, you didn't call me. No one expects you to call me. Don't expect me to call
[03:12:14] you. I'm not calling you. You're not going to call me cool. But if you need something call me,
[03:12:18] call me, you don't have to call me. You don't have to prep call me. You don't have to keep,
[03:12:22] you have to send me birthday cards, whatever. You need me cool. I'll show up or you want to,
[03:12:27] you got your in town? Give me a shout. We'll go roll. We'll see what's up. You, it does go to show
[03:12:34] to how like, it's almost like you put into perspective where you have people with such different
[03:12:38] backgrounds. And then they kind of converge on this maybe seal journey. They get washed up and
[03:12:45] filtered out and then they get kind of spit out into their, you know, common interest for sure
[03:12:48] and common goals. But in such different ways, like if you talk to, you know, you say like,
[03:12:53] maybe seals don't have a stereotype where they, you think they have a stereotype. They do what they
[03:12:58] don't. But they don't. Yeah. This is like a really good example because I'm, you know, I'm talking
[03:13:02] on me. It's like a super nice kind of introverted person and then now talk to you. You're like,
[03:13:08] no way that they were like compods and the team. Like it doesn't make sense. And have the exact
[03:13:14] same job, hung out and did stuff together. And then so like I'm trying to imagine, you know,
[03:13:21] like every time everyone talks like when they tell their story, I always try to kind of put
[03:13:25] myself like, I want to know how they were, you know, like what they looked like. I see them in front of
[03:13:29] me now. But what did they look like? They young version. You know, you look exactly like that.
[03:13:33] He looked exactly the same. Just darker hair probably. He had darker hair, but he looked the same.
[03:13:40] You know, there's almost the same build. I mean, I, I'm bigger than I was like when we went through
[03:13:46] buds, when we started buds, I was 174, you know, I'm 230 right now. He probably weighs somewhere in
[03:13:53] the neighborhood. Well, I don't know what he weighed in buds, but he looks about the same. You know,
[03:13:58] and I'm sure does he have a couple more wrinkles? Whatever we all do. But looks about the same.
[03:14:03] Yeah. So you imagine him like just functioning, you know, I kind of imagine him yelling at
[03:14:08] nobody. To me, he's just like the super friendly person. But I'm sure he was like,
[03:14:13] getting after the way everyone else was weird. That contrast is real weird. Yeah. It's fun. Interesting.
[03:14:18] It is good stuff, man. Good stuff. Oh, it's always good to talk to your old friends and see
[03:14:25] where they're at, see what they're up to. And maybe there's a chance they're playing stand-up
[03:14:29] base in a blues band. Well, but every, the actual, I'll say, it's in a second. What I did kind of
[03:14:36] what did hit me at one point. You know, when you're talking about, um, when someone, when you're
[03:14:42] superior, this was like, if you're really hardcore, you're gonna go, what with no, no, ground pad.
[03:14:48] Whatever. All you're gonna bring is a poncho and a poncho on there. Yeah. So, and you just
[03:14:52] finished it by, sever. Well, or was it? Or what? Yeah. In a way, it was like, it was, it fulfilled itself,
[03:14:59] right, as a thing. But no ground pad is a problem. By the way, after that, like I never go in the
[03:15:04] field without a ground pad, I never go in the field without a, a, a roll, beanie. And I did have a
[03:15:09] roll, beanie, but that saved me. And I never go in the field without my, Gore-Tex jacket.
[03:15:14] Because, in worst case, now you put on a Gore-Tex jacket, a beanie, man, in a ground pad,
[03:15:19] you're gonna be able to, like, last a lot longer with a lot more comfort. If you don't have
[03:15:23] those things, you're screwed. So you learn your lesson. Lesson was learned. It was, it was it,
[03:15:28] that experience. That, that made you, ground pad. 100%. Okay. So, to me, was funny. I mean, good.
[03:15:35] Then that's good for sure. But what struck me the most, what stood out is like, you know who you're
[03:15:40] like, you're watched back to the future? Yeah. I mean, I know the movie, but I can't say,
[03:15:47] I know the plot. So, because I'm not a freaking doorker. So, Marty McFly, right? The main guy,
[03:15:53] Michael J. Fawler. Yeah. His weakness was if you call him chicken, he'll do the dumbest stuff.
[03:15:59] Oh, you got to do his column chicken. And that's like a theme throughout all the, you know,
[03:16:03] that in fact, like later on, that's like why he like ruined the story. Questions might be in
[03:16:08] hardcore. You're the exact same. You're Marty McFly. But instead of kicking it's, uh,
[03:16:13] freaking hardcore. Yeah. Well, not hardcore. Sorry. Yeah. I would say, especially when I was,
[03:16:18] well, you're still like that. You still like that. True. If, in fact, now you're smarter than
[03:16:25] I think I'm assuming. But so, like, if I were to be like, hey, jok. It would be like, hey,
[03:16:30] jok will like do this. If you're hardcore, like you would do this, right? Something that
[03:16:35] maybe didn't want to do, where you said no to or something like that. If I said it that straightforward,
[03:16:39] you, you know what I'm doing. You'd figure it out and be like, hey, I'm not going to fall for that.
[03:16:43] But if I just hinted at it, if you use the indirect approach,
[03:16:46] indirect approach, maybe took a couple of days to maybe, you know, like, plant seeds and stuff like that.
[03:16:51] Oh, I think I could get you. Fully to do some stuff. I don't know what. There's nothing wrong with
[03:16:55] getting people to do stuff. I like it. I appreciate it a little bit of peer pressure and a positive way.
[03:17:00] Let's go with it. You know, have I ever told you about the cliff on Koi? Um, on shipwreck speech?
[03:17:07] No. Actually, I think I'm, you know what? No, I'm going to retract what I was about to. I was about
[03:17:11] to say, I could get you to jump off that cliff. But you probably jump off that cliff. It's not a
[03:17:16] job. That's scary. How many feet is it? It's not. It's, but this way, it's high, but not super high.
[03:17:22] So is it over 100 feet? No, no, no, no. It was like, okay, so the last time I jumped with the last
[03:17:28] time I went and I hadn't jumped for like a long time, probably like eight years, maybe. It's like
[03:17:33] when you're young, you jump, it's fun. It's a little bit of a swim. Maybe 100 meters, wind back.
[03:17:38] Give me an estimate on the height. Uh, 30, 35, maybe. Put it this way. I went to jump.
[03:17:44] Throw that up in the ground. Me? No, that's what I'm saying. But I'm saying, if you have
[03:17:49] in jump there, it's like, it can be intimidating. And people jump off there because they see
[03:17:55] other people because everyone on the beach can see you jump. The cliff kind of wraps around and
[03:17:59] the beach is literally like a, like, a audience. Perfect. Like spot. Sure. So when you jump,
[03:18:06] everyone watches you, right? So what, they don't see you to do that. It's just you to jump off that
[03:18:11] beach. Where she was a water woman. She's put the cape on back in H.I.
[03:18:18] Who's on quiet, by the way? So when you go up there does two things. One, it makes you want to
[03:18:23] like jump when you see other people. So, oh, that's fun. That'll be an adventure, right? You go.
[03:18:27] And, but another thing that does is when you go up there and you send it to edge, everyone's watching.
[03:18:32] So you can't turn back and walk down because you can be like, oh, you're the guy who walked down.
[03:18:37] Yeah, you're going. So we went, I went with my 15 year old nephew. He was like, I want to do it.
[03:18:42] I want to do it this time. So I'm like, cool. And he jumps. But before we jump, there's these,
[03:18:46] there were these people up there. They didn't live there. So they're like, oh, he's going to jump.
[03:18:51] And we're like, yeah, they're like, okay. Kind of like it was a bad idea.
[03:18:56] So it was like, she's like, oh, our friend is still in the hospital because he broke his back
[03:19:01] yesterday jumping off. So I was like, dang. So it's high enough to break your back.
[03:19:06] But it depends on who you are. It also depends on what you hit. I mean, this person that broke their
[03:19:12] back hit the bottom, no, it's not deep. So they're not breaking their back from just a regular jump.
[03:19:16] If they're a normal person at 35 feet, bro. That's there's some other, there's some other
[03:19:21] elements of the story that we're hearing. Here's what he was, basically, he was 50 years old.
[03:19:27] Okay. I'm 50 years old. I'm not breaking my back jump. No, I believe 100%
[03:19:31] you're not breaking their back when you can. But you're not the average 50 years old, the year old person.
[03:19:35] And if you land a certain way, like, oh, yeah, you can break your back, I think. And then
[03:19:39] not the kind of rebroadcast back in he was like, done. He, he like, you know, had a fractured one of
[03:19:44] his vertebrae in this way. He's in the hospital for more than a day though. So well, weird things
[03:19:49] can happen where it comes in. Drew, that's true. You can take that into account. I don't want to be
[03:19:53] talking too much smack over here. Plus you have to be careful. But in your case, I just call you
[03:19:57] not hardcore and you'll do anything. Yeah. Well, everyone, thanks for listening. Thanks for
[03:20:03] hanging out with a little gift gift in me. If you want to help us out with supporting what we're
[03:20:09] doing, check out jockelfuel.com. We got some, we got some tasty goodness on there, which is a weird
[03:20:14] thing. You say first thing people think about when they think of supplements, they're not generally
[03:20:18] thinking like, oh, tasty. Sometimes they even don't think tasty. The first thing I said was tasty.
[03:20:26] Why? Because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because of fun.
[03:20:30] It's a fun runner in food to take into your body and and enjoy that process. Actually,
[03:20:36] well, man, then help remember the, remember the free-gid protein shakes percond the day. Yeah.
[03:20:41] There was so bad. I was on our org poll tune on a ship. And we had the the latest and greatest
[03:20:50] and everyone had it. It was so, it tasted so bad. I was vanilla. I remember I used to have to hold my
[03:20:56] nose because I was on the train, right? We were doing really stuff. We're trying to get your act.
[03:21:02] I would hold my nose and do it like I'm doing a shot at the keva. So that's how, that's not what we want.
[03:21:10] No, have a good taste. Or remember the old school freaking Mega Mass 5 million or whatever,
[03:21:15] really in the one in the big dog, food bag or whatever. That tasted good. But I think it had like
[03:21:21] boatloads like sugar. Yeah, it was a stretch of the. It's just like, check it out. Technically,
[03:21:25] he had more protein or whatever. Well, that were also like, hey, this is for gaining mass.
[03:21:29] Yeah. So we're literally just going to give you sugar, fat, protein, just whatever.
[03:21:34] Which is going to throw it in there. Make it taste good. Hey, more power to you. If you're a,
[03:21:38] if you're a hard gamer, remember that bag of the day, the hard gator coming in hot.
[03:21:43] And then with the two three body types, right, there's a morph, echo morph. What's the other one?
[03:21:48] Endo. Endo morph. Right. There you go. So they'd have those little graphs. You know, maybe
[03:21:53] you need something. Is that a real thing? No. I have no idea. I think it is a thing. But I don't know
[03:21:58] what determines that thing. Oh, yeah. Because I don't know if it what's the, you know what, let's face it.
[03:22:02] There's some truth to it because there's some dudes that I know that would just eat with
[03:22:06] pizzas and whatever and they're lean. Yep. That's true. So they might be the hard gator. Yeah.
[03:22:11] And then some people doesn't matter. They lift or not. They're kind of jacked.
[03:22:14] Yep. I know people like that. I know some people that work all out like crazy.
[03:22:19] Yeah. And they don't look like it. And they can be even be strong. Yeah. And even be fast. But they
[03:22:24] still look like kind of dumpy. Yeah. That is true. So I guess the thing is a thing. Yeah.
[03:22:29] So we're going to watch out for that one. Yeah. I literally know a someone like immediately
[03:22:34] comes to mind for every single one of those. That's interesting. Yeah. All right. Well, you
[03:22:38] got to watch out for that. Of course. So know your body type. Yeah. Right. Also speaking of taste. Good.
[03:22:43] The energy drinks. Healthy energy drinks too. But we just go rare thing. Very rare.
[03:22:48] Good way you need things. Get some of those. And you can get this stuff at jockelfield.com.
[03:22:51] You can get it while I get the drinks at wall. You can get it. You can get all the stuff
[03:22:55] at vitamin shop as well. So check that out. Also, if you need some GJ2 gear, which you probably
[03:23:00] do, go to originusa.com. And what's cool is we started with GJ2 gear, but now we're making
[03:23:06] just a straight gear for your life. Jeans. T-shirts, hoodies, boots. Whatever you need, we got it.
[03:23:16] So check some of that out. The jeans. And I don't know why these ones struck me. So hard or whatever.
[03:23:23] It's the new jeans that they're coming out. They're like green or something. One that
[03:23:29] piece said the next one is going to be camel. The work. They're work pants. Yeah. I don't know if I
[03:23:35] do the work. Actually, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure they're going to
[03:23:39] do the work. That's required. He's called the good offense. But I do want the best qualified
[03:23:46] one. The worst pants across the board. Yeah, they got any padding in the knee. Let's face it.
[03:23:53] That padding is not going to get any any action. No use for my work. That's for the abcher.
[03:23:57] But nonetheless, for people who do do work, these are both functional. And instead, I'm
[03:24:03] looking at them. And I want them, you know, just for the look alone. And then I know they're
[03:24:07] probably more functional than they look at. So they say in a lot. Or do USA dot com, go and get yourself
[03:24:12] some gear. And by the way, support an American company that's rebuilding American manufacturer
[03:24:18] and helping American communities and workers. That's what we're about. That's work. Because
[03:24:23] if we're worried about that, guess what we're doing? Hiring some slave labor overseas in China to
[03:24:29] make everything for us. Make it a little bit more profit. Make a little bit more probably. We
[03:24:33] we can stuff a little bit more money in our pockets over here. To rip it out of the hearts of the
[03:24:40] American worker. We're not doing that. That's not what we're doing. So where's new essay dot com?
[03:24:44] Go check it out. There you go. It's true. Also, when you're in the mood to represent on this path,
[03:24:50] hey, look, we're capable. Which kind of reminds me, you know how like, and some of the guests will
[03:24:56] have this where they'll talk about like their background or whatever. And then, you know, they went
[03:25:00] through this and went through that. They already have this certification or this, you know,
[03:25:04] like makes you think, man, those certifi, and there's a lot of them available, by the way.
[03:25:08] Like certification. Yeah, like GIF mentioned, he was a patty diver. Yeah, before he even during
[03:25:14] the Navy, maybe. Yeah, and he wasn't even really young. I never dove on scuba year until I was in the Navy.
[03:25:20] Yeah, see, and that's one that I always was like, man, that'd be a cool one. Because
[03:25:24] I'm a good guy. But you dive? Yeah, I grew up diving. Scuba diving? No, never. So snorkeling. Free diving
[03:25:30] we call it. Yeah. Wait, wasn't who was it? Um, Mike, all right. Was it my free diving? Yeah. And if we didn't
[03:25:36] go into that, he was some kind of world class, uh, bro. My younger brother, Yata Charles. Yeah. He is heavy,
[03:25:43] not so much in Moria's kids and all that stuff. Now, but he's heavy into free diving, spearfishing
[03:25:47] all this stuff. Really good, too. One of his friends, I know, my colors. I don't know that's why.
[03:25:51] And when I kind of asked him to get up there. Yeah, man, he and one of his friends actually, I think
[03:25:55] still holds the record of the deepest free dive. If I'm not mistaken, could be mistaken, but I'm pretty
[03:26:00] sure. He showed me the videos freaking crazy. Nonetheless, I know a little bit about free diving.
[03:26:06] And but and scuba diving has always been like kind of like, oh man, that'd be a cool in depth.
[03:26:10] You can just stay down and breathe. Same thing. The kind of dive rig that you eventually end up using
[03:26:16] in the sail team is which is called the rebreether, a rebreether. And it has no bubbles. Yeah.
[03:26:23] And when you're down there, it just like quiet. It's like, yeah. It's not like a normal,
[03:26:28] a normal when you're scuba diving with a normal, what's called an open circuit rig. He's like,
[03:26:33] it's all noisy. These bubbles everywhere. And I don't like it at all. And I've just spent way more.
[03:26:39] I've probably spent a hundred times more in my life on Drager.
[03:26:43] What's Drager's the rebreether? Then open circuit. Open circuit. You basically do it in
[03:26:49] buds. You get qualified. And then as soon as you're done with that, you go on close circuit.
[03:26:54] And that's where you dive for the rest of your career. Maybe every once in a blue moon,
[03:26:58] you dive open circuit. I can't. I think I do open circuit on a ship one time to like clear some
[03:27:03] some seaweed out of something or something like this. But have you ever gone scuba diving in any
[03:27:10] capacity after you retired from the need? No. Would you like is that your jet? Like would you?
[03:27:15] If I could get a rebreether? Yes. Like just to go or what? If I was like, let's say we were
[03:27:21] went back to Hawaii and we were just going to go diving. And I could use a rebreether. I'd probably
[03:27:26] look into it. Maybe do it. A rebreether is like a failable or is they are? But I don't know what the rules are.
[03:27:33] You know? They're like, Pluto. No, no, they are available. I've looked at a human by one,
[03:27:37] like $5 or $6,000. How much is the regular school or regular? Like a middle of the road?
[03:27:42] I would guess $1500 bucks for the whole thing if you went over to the dive shop and hooked it up.
[03:27:49] But that seems like to me anyway. That seems like a cool little just certification. You can just
[03:27:54] decide to go get a new hat. Just like even like the guns thing, like you know,
[03:27:58] how does those kind of certification just have more capability overall? You just choose planning?
[03:28:03] Yeah, and there's people that chase those little qualifications, right? Yeah. And I did it. Yeah.
[03:28:07] But I mean, of course, just like anything else. It's like, you know, if you don't want to do it for
[03:28:11] nothing, they got to be applicable. I would think anyway. Yeah. But it's better to have the capability
[03:28:16] and certification than that. Let's build capability. There's what is what we're saying. You know,
[03:28:20] what you want to randomly got, it's not random as for a reason. But it seems, but it seems like you
[03:28:25] would never just think to go get it. But once you kind of think about it for a second, it's like
[03:28:29] super duper useful is CPR. Yeah. I'm CPR certified. And due to you put that on your resume for this
[03:28:38] job. I'm just saying if you blackout or something like this, I got you ready to say. Dude, I didn't know
[03:28:44] I've been dealing with highly qualified. Hollywood quality. I told you, I told you it's small, but it's
[03:28:51] one of those things. You can just get and it's better to have all better than I'm not having
[03:28:56] a problem at all. But I'm just saying it's one of those things. What did you like a plight of college?
[03:28:59] You can't digress. Jack. All right. So there you go. We don't know you're down. If you go down,
[03:29:08] remember, text echo Charles, he'll come and get you CPR. He's qualified. It's like a 15 minute class.
[03:29:16] But I don't even know I tell you these things. I don't know anything. I don't know why you do
[03:29:21] that. It's ridiculous. Either way. If you want to represent while you're on the path, CPR certified
[03:29:27] or not, go to jockelstore.com. You can get your uh, this clinical freedom, shirts and hats and
[03:29:35] there's a lot of good stuff on there. Check it out. If you want something, get something to represent.
[03:29:39] Don't forget we got some other podcasts too. We got the jockel on rambling, but they're a
[03:29:42] Cooper. Got the ground upon cast where you're kid podcast. We got jockel on the ground. That's a
[03:29:47] huge way to support. There's people getting banned. You got what just happened? Neil Young told Spotify,
[03:29:54] get rogan off. Get him off. Get him off. And guess what happened? Did you see the outcome?
[03:30:01] Neil Young's off Spotify. We should say we want Joe Rogan off Spotify.
[03:30:09] Well, we're gonna have to get this off to me. Who are you?
[03:30:12] But listen, that's a scenario that happened. Luckily Spotify made the call to keep Joe Rogan
[03:30:22] because Neil Young cool. I don't know if that happened across B. Still's Nash and Young as well.
[03:30:27] I don't know if he screwed over all of his old bandmates too. You know who knows what happened there.
[03:30:32] Good old Neil Young. But you jacked it up, son. So we don't know what's gonna happen. We don't
[03:30:37] have somebody's gonna come on on the apple and we don't know if some big band of Neil Young's
[03:30:42] going to go on an apple and say, hey, take down jockel podcast because I don't like what they're saying
[03:30:48] about CPR calls. So we don't know if that's going to happen. So that's where we have jockel on
[03:30:52] the ground. So if you want to get on board there, you want to help us out cause $8.18 a month
[03:30:57] to come and we have a podcast that we do there. A little bit of a project to pass more information.
[03:31:05] If you can't afford it, it's okay. Email assistance at jocconoground.com. So you can be in the
[03:31:09] game. Check out our YouTube channel. Check out flipsidegamvis.com with the code of my bag. Check it out.
[03:31:14] I wrote a bunch of books. Check them out. I would say especially check out the kids books.
[03:31:19] Most people know I've written some books but some people don't know I wrote kids books. Kids books.
[03:31:24] Keep them kids on the path. And also we have Ashlan Front, which is our leadership consultancy.
[03:31:31] If you want to have us help you with your leadership, go to extremeownership.com and a online training
[03:31:38] platform. So look, a few years ago, if someone said, hey, you don't really want to learn about leadership,
[03:31:45] do you can you help me? I'd say, yeah, just listen to my podcast, man. And they'd be like,
[03:31:50] okay, cool. Thanks. And they'd listen. There's good information. But now there's 300 plus podcast.
[03:31:57] And they're about war and they're about atrocities. And so the leadership lessons are
[03:32:02] strewn throughout. So we this is one thing that we've done to sort of, hey, let's get these things
[03:32:10] into a consolidated curriculum where you can literally learn from step A through step Z. There you go.
[03:32:16] Go to extremeownership.com. A little story about the word strewn. So I got two, I got three
[03:32:21] daughters to two older ones. They're very, you know, articulate. Well, they also get
[03:32:26] hostile. You know, so that too. And they shared room for a long time. And they still share a room
[03:32:33] when they're home. But one of them wrote the older one wrote a message to the younger one that
[03:32:41] said, you know, something along the lines of, listen, I just got home. I've been out all day working.
[03:32:48] And I just got home. And as soon as I walked into a room, I could barely get in there because you had
[03:32:52] your clothes and your stuff strewn about the floor. And I would really appreciate if you come home
[03:32:58] and clean this up. And my middle daughter replied, strewn. That's all she wrote back.
[03:33:08] So I thought that was pretty funny. strewn. So now it's a joke and inside of our family. If there's
[03:33:13] something been left out, then it's been, there's then it's strewn about and then the response is just
[03:33:18] straight out of the screws. And if you want to help service members active on the tire, go check out
[03:33:23] Mark Lee's mom, mom, Alicia's got an awesome charity organization. If you want to donate,
[03:33:28] you're getting involved. Go to America's Mighty Warriors.org. And if you need more of us for whatever
[03:33:36] reason, we're on social. Watch out for the algorithm. I'm not trying to draw you into the algorithm.
[03:33:42] Where that thing grabs a hold of your soul and drags you down, reading into comments and
[03:33:47] feeling bad about yourself and scanning to another screen to another one. I want you to do that.
[03:33:54] I don't want you to do that. I'd rather you not do that. But if you feel like, oh, I got a question.
[03:34:00] I want to see what's happening. Cool. We're on the gram, we're on Facebook, we're on Twitter,
[03:34:08] Echo's Adact patrols. I am at Jocca Willick. And once again, if you want to hang out with Chris
[03:34:12] Gifford and his wife Julie, go to Instagram, taking leave underscore RV. There you go. That's
[03:34:22] Julie and Chris, who knows what they got going on out there in the world in that air stream. What
[03:34:26] is a 34 air stream? Yeah, that's a nice ride right there. Yeah, nice ride. And speaking of Chris,
[03:34:33] Gifford, just want to say thanks once again to Chris on his travels. He was nice enough to stop by.
[03:34:38] He was a silent professional in the teams and a pro and appreciate it. Appreciate your service.
[03:34:47] And thanks for coming by and to all the other vets out there. Both the vets and also the folks
[03:34:54] that are still active duty, manning the watch worldwide. Thank you for your continued service.
[03:35:00] And to our police and law enforcement of firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers,
[03:35:05] correctional officers, board of patrols, secretaries, all first responders. Thanks for
[03:35:10] manning the watch here at home and to everyone else. Everyone else, remember what Chris did with his
[03:35:17] life. He said a goal and then he went out and he achieved it. And then he did that again and again and
[03:35:26] that is a good plan. So go out there, come up with a goal and execute by getting after it.
[03:35:36] And until next time, the Zekko and Jocko out.