Jocko Podcast #3 - With Echo Charles | "The Last Hundred Yards" Book, Jiu Jitsu, Bosses, Failure

2015-12-31T19:56:06Z

Navy SEAL, Jocko Willink and Director, Echo Charles discuss the book, "The Last Hundred Yards." Answer internet questions and also converse about Jiu Jitsu training, managing expectations with friends and family, and dealing with bosses and failure. 0:00:00 – 1:09:19 – “The Last Hundred Yards” Book Analysis and Relevance. 1:09:19 – 1:48:24 – Internet Questions on Jiu Jitsu, Micromanagers, Inept Bosses, and Failure. Available on iTunes and Stitcher.

AI summary of episode

So we tried to inspire the younger guys, the new guys, a guy that had no experience in the SEAL teams, but we wanted that guy to go, you know what, I'm going to get into this room, I'm going to take this building, I'm going to get to this rooftop, I'm going to get this good position and not to do it as a rogue element, but within the confines of what the strategy was and what the plan was. So, if you're trying to control someone by beating them down and saying, you failed, you need to do it this way, and it's the only way, you're going to get more control over them, but you're going to not allow them to operate in a real world where they have to think of new ideas and think of, think they have to free their mind. And you know, one of the things that I remember of where people get locked into these, you can see it sometimes in MMA fights, you'll see a fighter that's got a big good, you know, ground game or all of you's trying to do is take the person down, take the person down, use all the energy, just keep trying to cleanse, keep shooting shots and they're getting their shot stuff, but they can't adapt. And I think I did talk about this before, but taking care of your people, you know, and how taking care of your people, it can mean, hey, that means we're going to cut them loose early because that means you're taking care of them. And you know, these days where we see the big difference, you know, you see a big bureaucratic company, you know, now that we're working with businesses, we see a big bureaucratic company, they become very centralized in their control and they fight a Trish and Warfare against other companies because they're bigger and they have more resources. And you know what's a good, it's good time to this is, and I run it as with business leaders, where they know their superover, achievers and they expect that level of performance out of everyone and they're not going to get it. It's easy to train something people for something that they know is going to happen, but it's a lot more difficult to train people for something that is unknown, how do you do that? Where he just says, okay, you're going to start, you know, that's almost going to be on your back and you're going to try to escape, but doesn't matter. I talked about that before that people know, even if they don't know what the truth is, they know you're not telling them that. All the way down to the language we use, some people, you know, some people don't like if they are called boss. And as a matter of fact, there's not too many people like you echo and people that are listening this, there's not too many people like you either. And then what's beautiful about it is I'm surprised and happy and in, I'm surprised when people are supportive, when people are reliable, when people are good people, when they make sense, when they're not crazy. And I will usually get food them on that because they do realize that they're high performers and that they're overachievers and that they're not going to get so how are you going to set the expectations so that you're, you've got people that can actually achieve the expectations you've said for them. It's kind of like if you have this big trash can lid, and then you have this blob of like mercury, you're trying to keep it in the center, but don't try to like squeeze it with your hand or something because it's going to come out of your fingers. They've got decentralized command, they've got people taking chances, they're taking risks, they've got different leaders out there on the battlefield that are trying to make things happen. You know, if you don't know your name, you know, hey bro, the same thing boss. And if you don't want to go from zero to 10, do a small one, you know, do something like with low consequences, you know, or less impactful consequences and just start small and and go up. So again, you see this sometimes in the movies where they get the young officer and their green and they don't really know what's going on and then you get the salty old badass that's played by a salty old, you know, a clen Eastwood and that older guy with all the experience. You know, I've talked about this before like there was a time where I would try and convince people about things. The seal teams as a lot of people with a similar, you know, they're like, got some similar personalities in there, which is always fun. You know, Lafin, I talked about that, the fact that when we got back from Ramadi, you know, I started teaching it trade it, which is called training detachment. You got to train what you know, you got to practice what you know.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number three with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:10] So, last show we dug into the book about Facebook, Colonel David Hackworth, and today
[00:00:21] we're going to dive into another book.
[00:00:24] That was very influential to me, and it's called the last hundred yards.
[00:00:32] Now this book is very different from about face in many ways.
[00:00:36] Number one, it was not a New York Times bestseller.
[00:00:40] It was probably never on any kind of list of any kind.
[00:00:43] It's a legit tactical guide book for people in the military.
[00:00:50] That's what it is.
[00:00:53] And I'm going to tell you a little bit about the author right now, guy name H.J.
[00:00:58] Poo, who retired from the Marine Corps in 1993.
[00:01:05] When he was on active duty, he studied small unit tactics for nine years.
[00:01:09] Six months at the Basics School in Quantum Aquanico.
[00:01:12] Seven months as a Platinum Commander in Vietnam.
[00:01:15] Three months as a rifle company commander at Camp Pendleton.
[00:01:18] In 1967, five months as a regimental headquarters company commander in Vietnam in 1968.
[00:01:26] Eight months as a rifle company commander in Vietnam, 1968 to 1969.
[00:01:32] Five and a half years as an instructor with advanced infantry training.
[00:01:38] Down at Camp Lijoon.
[00:01:40] While he was at that advanced infantry training company, he developed hot refined courses
[00:01:45] of instruction on maneuver warfare, land navigation, fire support coordination, call for fire,
[00:01:50] adjust fire, close air support, 203 grenade launch, your movement to contact daylight
[00:01:55] attack, night attack, infiltration, defense, offensive, military operations in urban terrain,
[00:02:04] defensive military operations in urban terrain, NBC defense and leadership.
[00:02:12] So the guy has some good background.
[00:02:16] And this book was very influential to me when I was coming up.
[00:02:21] And again, as I just like with about face, as I was thinking about what I was going to say
[00:02:26] about it.
[00:02:27] And I wanted to talk about when I got it.
[00:02:31] And I couldn't remember when I got about face.
[00:02:33] It just kind of came into my life at some point.
[00:02:35] And it's the same thing with the last hundred yards.
[00:02:38] And I don't really know a hundred percent when I got it or who told me to get it.
[00:02:42] It's one of those things that just became so ingrained with me that now I didn't want
[00:02:49] to remember when it happened.
[00:02:51] So one of the key kind of components or the basis of the book that I kind of have to introduce
[00:03:02] YouTube is it talks about something called maneuver warfare.
[00:03:08] And maneuver warfare is a, is a obviously a type of warfare.
[00:03:12] It's a type of technique.
[00:03:14] And it's, it's counter to something that's called attrition warfare.
[00:03:20] Now you could probably guess what attrition warfare is.
[00:03:23] Attrition warfare is we're going to go against the enemy.
[00:03:26] We're going to stand toe to toe and we're going to punch each other in the face until
[00:03:29] one of us goes down.
[00:03:31] Now you add bombs and bullets into that scenario.
[00:03:33] It means we're going to stand across from each other from the enemy.
[00:03:37] And we're going to shoot each other and bomb each other until one of us breaks.
[00:03:41] And that's very American way of fighting is to start this attrition warfare because
[00:03:48] why we've got massive supplies.
[00:03:50] We've got awesome industry and we can get away with that.
[00:03:56] The maneuver warfare is is very different and to go into the book a little bit in talking
[00:04:07] about maneuver warfare.
[00:04:10] This is what maneuver warfare is.
[00:04:12] In maneuver warfare, the emphasis is on maneuver.
[00:04:16] Firepower is considered important only to the extent that it facilitates maneuver.
[00:04:20] The overall offensive mission is to win decisively by getting the enemy to surrender.
[00:04:29] So it's very different.
[00:04:31] In that definition, they're not even looking to kill the person.
[00:04:36] They're looking to make them surrender because it's in some ways easier if the enemy
[00:04:42] surrenders.
[00:04:43] You don't have to kill them all.
[00:04:44] Now to go on, the focus is outward on the enemy.
[00:04:49] And this is maneuver warfare.
[00:04:51] The focus is outward on the enemy.
[00:04:55] And a few mistakes like out distancing ones, logistical support or shooting in a friendly
[00:05:00] unit are acceptable and unavoidable.
[00:05:04] So that's kind of crazy, right?
[00:05:06] That you actually take these risks in maneuver warfare where you might engage friendly forces,
[00:05:13] you might get so separated that you end up in a bad situation, but it's because you're pushing
[00:05:18] the pace.
[00:05:21] Control is decentralized.
[00:05:24] And every sub-unit or individual is encouraged to display the initiative needed to react
[00:05:31] successfully to the local threat.
[00:05:33] And this is the biggest distinguisher between a treason warfare and the way it's run and
[00:05:41] maneuver warfare.
[00:05:42] And that is a chapter in the book Extreme Ownership that lay for an I wrote, it's one of
[00:05:49] the laws of combat that we talk about is decentralized command.
[00:05:55] Is that everybody that's out on the battlefield, every individual unit leader can make decisions
[00:06:00] on their own and they can make something happen, they can react and they can execute without
[00:06:04] having to run it up the chain of command.
[00:06:06] That's maneuver warfare.
[00:06:08] Very, very different.
[00:06:10] And you know, these days where we see the big difference, you know, you see a big bureaucratic
[00:06:14] company, you know, now that we're working with businesses, we see a big bureaucratic company,
[00:06:19] they become very centralized in their control and they fight a Trish and Warfare against
[00:06:23] other companies because they're bigger and they have more resources.
[00:06:26] Whereas you see the young startups, what are they doing?
[00:06:29] They're doing maneuver warfare.
[00:06:31] They've got decentralized command, they've got people taking chances, they're taking risks,
[00:06:36] they've got different leaders out there on the battlefield that are trying to make things happen.
[00:06:41] The emphasis is on training personnel and this is back to the book.
[00:06:45] The emphasis is on training personnel well enough ahead of time that they can follow their
[00:06:49] commanders intent in combat after only receiving broad guidance.
[00:06:55] Of course, sub-unit must still keep their commanders informed of any actions that might
[00:07:00] affect a nation units.
[00:07:02] So you end up with a situation where the commander is not telling you exactly what to do.
[00:07:12] They're giving you broad guidance.
[00:07:13] Hey, this is the end state of the mission that I want to have accomplished and you're
[00:07:17] not telling you exactly how to accomplish it.
[00:07:19] They're just telling you what they want done.
[00:07:22] So that's a difference between the two.
[00:07:27] Now there's a piece that's very different as well or maybe not different, but another
[00:07:39] key element of maneuver warfare and decentralized command versus a Trishon warfare and
[00:07:47] centralized command.
[00:07:49] So if you're listening and you haven't been the military before, the military is separated
[00:07:54] into two groups of people, officers and it listed people.
[00:07:59] The officers are sort of the senior leaders who are strategic planners and they're
[00:08:07] they're they broader higher ranking leaders.
[00:08:10] And then the enlisted are the tacticians, the folks that are shooting the machine guns,
[00:08:15] throwing their grenades, making things happen.
[00:08:17] And they do have the enlisted servicemen also have their non commissioned officers which are
[00:08:24] the senior ranking enlisted guys which are usually the expert tacticians.
[00:08:30] But it's interesting.
[00:08:34] So this is going back to the book now.
[00:08:35] In the average platoon, the NCOs provide most of the collective experience.
[00:08:41] So again, you see this sometimes in the movies where they get the young officer and their
[00:08:46] green and they don't really know what's going on and then you get the salty old badass that's
[00:08:51] played by a salty old, you know, a clen Eastwood and that older guy with all the experience.
[00:09:00] That's what that's saying.
[00:09:02] The NCOs provide most of the collective experience.
[00:09:06] For this reason, they should participate in most of the tactical decisions.
[00:09:09] That absolutely makes sense.
[00:09:12] They should in no way challenge the authority of the officers.
[00:09:16] That's sensible.
[00:09:17] After all, commissioned and non commissioned officers share the same responsibilities in combat.
[00:09:23] If the lieutenant, which is the officer, is wounded, the platoon sergeant takes over.
[00:09:28] When they both, this is key.
[00:09:30] When they both work together, better decisions result.
[00:09:34] Obviously, you've got two minds instead of one.
[00:09:36] This brain trust can be further enhanced by including
[00:09:41] squad leaders.
[00:09:42] So they're saying, let's bring in more minds.
[00:09:45] More of these junior and listed guys.
[00:09:46] Let's find out what they think.
[00:09:50] The enduring satisfaction that comes from making a situationally correct decision and then
[00:09:55] having that decision fully supported during execution, far outweighs the temporary insecurity
[00:10:03] that may come from soliciting the advice of support.
[00:10:07] I love that.
[00:10:09] I love that.
[00:10:10] Be careful.
[00:10:11] I'm going to say it again.
[00:10:11] So it's saying that the decision and the execution doing that well,
[00:10:15] far outweighs the temporary insecurity that may come from soliciting the advice of
[00:10:20] supportants.
[00:10:21] So, and I used to see this with these young junior officers.
[00:10:26] If they're insecure with their leadership, they don't want to take advice and they definitely
[00:10:30] don't want to ask for advice because they feel like that makes them look weak.
[00:10:33] They don't know what they're talking about.
[00:10:35] Yeah, they don't know what they're talking about.
[00:10:37] Oh, they're going to lose respect.
[00:10:39] That's all they're ego talking.
[00:10:41] And is their insecurity talking.
[00:10:43] Whereas you get a young officer that's smart and that's confident, he has no problem looking
[00:10:49] at the gunnery sergeant or looking at the platoon chief and saying, hey chief, how do you
[00:10:52] think we should do this?
[00:10:54] Hey chief, I've never even seen this type of operation before.
[00:10:57] Can you give me some help or can you take lead on this?
[00:11:01] And that is the way a real leader operates.
[00:11:05] You don't always see that.
[00:11:07] Unfortunately.
[00:11:08] Same thing with the mistakes too, right, when you say, oh man, I made that mistake.
[00:11:12] Oh, exactly.
[00:11:13] It's hard to do that a lot of the time because you think, oh, this guy doesn't know what
[00:11:15] he's doing.
[00:11:16] Yeah, obviously, he made a mistake, even admitted it, kind of thing.
[00:11:19] Yeah.
[00:11:20] And with the reality is, people don't actually think that.
[00:11:22] They don't think, oh, he just admitted his mistake.
[00:11:24] He really doesn't know what he's doing.
[00:11:25] No, they're okay.
[00:11:26] Well, at least he's aware of his mistake.
[00:11:27] Unless everything they do is a mistake.
[00:11:30] And that's different.
[00:11:31] On the other hand, it is according disaster to rely on one's personal impressions to provide
[00:11:37] this solution to complex scenario and then not consider whether one's subordinates have
[00:11:42] the skills to execute that solution.
[00:11:44] So don't sit there, stuck in your own brain, afraid to ask anybody else, or you're
[00:11:50] going to lose.
[00:11:55] Now, as we push through this, we can get pretty deep to you at this going back to the
[00:12:07] book again.
[00:12:08] To a US infantryman actively engaged in a losing effort, this shortage of resreference
[00:12:13] material can be quite unsettling.
[00:12:16] And what this is talking about previously to this sentence is saying that although there's
[00:12:21] all kinds of books and manuals in the military, this detailed reference material of exactly
[00:12:27] how to do the frontline.
[00:12:29] What is that point man do?
[00:12:31] What does that machine gun or do?
[00:12:33] How do they actually do it?
[00:12:35] That information can get lost because it's more past word amount than anything else.
[00:12:42] And it goes into a talking about the leave it or not, hack worth.
[00:12:46] With a combat commission from Korea, Lieutenant Colonel David Hackworth was no stranger to
[00:12:51] war when he called the serve in Vietnam.
[00:12:54] After two tours, he pointed out that the US knowledge on small unit infantry tactics had
[00:12:59] not been significantly enhanced by the longest war in US history meaning Vietnam.
[00:13:05] And here's what Hackworth said.
[00:13:07] Almost 15 years since the tragic inevitable fall of Saigon.
[00:13:12] And this is so he's saying this 15 years after the end of Vietnam war.
[00:13:16] Almost 15 years since the end since the tragic inevitable fall of Saigon, there's been no
[00:13:20] major honest post-mortem of the war.
[00:13:25] There have been critiques dealing with the big picture, but none has addressed the lessons
[00:13:29] learned the hard way at the fighting level where people died and the war was in fact lost.
[00:13:38] So all those lessons learned and all those no one ever made an honest critique and dug
[00:13:45] down on the battlefield to see what these guys could do.
[00:13:48] And I know I talked about this last time as well is that when I first got in the seal
[00:13:52] teams, there was guys from Vietnam.
[00:13:55] And when those guys spoke, you absolutely listened because you were hearing knowledge and
[00:14:07] that if I didn't experience that, if I didn't meet those guys, I wouldn't hurt it.
[00:14:13] It wasn't written down anywhere.
[00:14:15] And so you've got to always remember when you do learn stuff, you got to write it down.
[00:14:21] You know, Lafin, I talked about that, the fact that when we got back from Ramadi, you
[00:14:26] know, I started teaching it trade it, which is called training detachment.
[00:14:30] And he started teaching the seals that were coming out of the new guys that were coming
[00:14:35] out of the seal training.
[00:14:37] And that's where we were having the opportunity to really capture a lot of this information
[00:14:41] that we learned in Ramadi and we were able to pass it on.
[00:14:46] And ultimately those lessons learned are what became the book.
[00:14:53] So that being said, you start talking about doctrine.
[00:14:59] And I can tell you that doctrine is not everything.
[00:15:03] In fact, and you'll hear me talk about people, people's biggest strengths are often their
[00:15:07] biggest weaknesses.
[00:15:08] So if you have someone that's super aggressive in their aggressive in the business world
[00:15:11] and make things happen and that's a real advantage form, but they can get over aggressive
[00:15:14] and then they end up doing stupid things and they fail.
[00:15:17] That's one example of how your biggest strength can be your biggest weaknesses.
[00:15:21] In the seal teams, we really didn't have, we had very limited doctrine.
[00:15:29] And it was a real big weakness for us because if you had never run a certain type of operation
[00:15:34] before, you couldn't refer back to something and say, okay, here's the method or the
[00:15:39] written documentation of how you're supposed to do it.
[00:15:43] So that's that's pretty weak.
[00:15:44] That's pretty horrible.
[00:15:45] It's a big weakness.
[00:15:46] But at the same time, it was a strength because as the battlefield changed, it's
[00:15:52] we started getting tasked with missions that we had never done before, that no one had
[00:15:56] ever done before.
[00:15:58] We were very adaptable because we were used to trying to figure things out.
[00:16:01] So it's a strength and weakness that being said, and although we did capture much of our
[00:16:06] lessons learned, this is going back to the book here, basic field manual, talking about
[00:16:12] all these manuals that capture the doctrine.
[00:16:16] Knowledge is fine, but it is useless without common sense.
[00:16:20] Common sense is of greater value than all the words in the book.
[00:16:26] And this is another thing they will stereotypically put in Hollywood movies about cops or
[00:16:31] about soldiers.
[00:16:32] You know, you've got some guy that's by the book, by the book, by the book.
[00:16:37] And you can see it.
[00:16:38] This is calling it out.
[00:16:39] It's a Colonel Armour R. Sims, a guy that was in the Marine Corps on Guadalcanal.
[00:16:49] And he said that common sense was more important than anything in the field manuals,
[00:16:54] which is something I completely agree with.
[00:17:01] And to carry that point a little bit further back to the book, and here's a quote from
[00:17:06] Major General Fuller, the central ideas of an army is known as its doctrine, which to be
[00:17:15] sound must be based on principles of war, and which to be effective must be elastic enough
[00:17:22] to admit of mutation in accordance with change in circumstance.
[00:17:29] So again, these all these people that really understand war, they know that this doctrine
[00:17:35] is something that needs to be written, it needs to exist, but it needs to be adapted to.
[00:17:40] And common sense is the superior rank over doctrine.
[00:17:47] And another thing, and this is a comment on training, because it becomes very difficult
[00:17:57] when you think about training people for situations that are unknown.
[00:18:03] It's easy to train something people for something that they know is going to happen,
[00:18:07] but it's a lot more difficult to train people for something that is unknown, how do you do
[00:18:11] that?
[00:18:13] As we get into the discussion of training a little bit, the small unit into the book here,
[00:18:19] the small unit that too faithfully follows the method in the book will eventually attempt
[00:18:25] it under the wrong conditions.
[00:18:28] Furthermore, the unit may have difficulty surprising any enemy who has read their book.
[00:18:35] That makes sense, right?
[00:18:36] The enemy is going to know your play, and by the way, all these military manuals can
[00:18:42] all be found online, they're online, they're on the internet.
[00:18:45] So the enemy definitely reads what we have.
[00:18:49] On the other hand, the unit that doesn't prepare for any particular scenario will take
[00:18:53] too long to decide what to do.
[00:18:56] It's automatically sacrificing surprise to momentum, and then not have the teamwork to execute
[00:19:01] what it does decide to do.
[00:19:03] So there's two ends of the spectrum.
[00:19:05] We talk about the dichotomy and leadership and how you're constantly going against opposing
[00:19:09] forces.
[00:19:10] You can train so hard and so specifically to what to doctrine that it eliminates your flexibility,
[00:19:18] the other end of the spectrum is to not train at all and then you can't execute anything.
[00:19:27] And Rommel said the ordinary soldier has a surprisingly good nose for what is true and
[00:19:34] what is false.
[00:19:35] And that's not just soldiers.
[00:19:38] I talked about that before that people know, even if they don't know what the truth is,
[00:19:44] they know you're not telling them that.
[00:19:45] They may not know what the actual truth is.
[00:19:49] And then going back to training, actuality, back to training and back to the book, in
[00:19:53] actuality, most small scale combat is one or lost months before the battle during training.
[00:20:01] And that's something that people say all the time about martial arts as well.
[00:20:04] It's during that training as you prepare, that's what wins the battle.
[00:20:08] It's the fight camp.
[00:20:09] And it's the same thing with military maneuvers.
[00:20:20] So as we continue on here, as expected, battlefield conditions change.
[00:20:28] So too must learning over alliance on book solutions in itself constitute a shortfall in
[00:20:35] training because it minimizes the importance of the unique aspects of each situation.
[00:20:41] Blind faith and standard operating procedures doesn't even constitute being well trained.
[00:20:45] This is something that when I was running training, we caused complete mayhem on the guys
[00:20:52] that were going through training.
[00:20:54] And anybody that went through training when I was running it right now as a smile on their
[00:20:59] face because they know that they were put into scenarios that were completely confusing,
[00:21:07] distracting, disturbing, mayhem chaos.
[00:21:13] It was just crazy.
[00:21:14] And the reason we did that is because we wanted to test their minds.
[00:21:20] Not their standard operating procedures, not their shooting capabilities.
[00:21:25] We wanted to test the minds of the leaders.
[00:21:28] The leaders be in that chaos, step back from that chaos, either physically or mentally or
[00:21:34] both get an assessment of everything that was happening and then say, okay, this is what
[00:21:40] we need to do to get out of the situation or improve the situation or win the situation.
[00:21:51] What the other thing that it requires, not only is that the leaders step back and have
[00:21:56] the ability to step back, but the NCOs, again, these non-commissioned officers must love
[00:22:01] initiative and must hold what ground they have to the upmost.
[00:22:06] It often happens that a sergeant or even a cropped corporal may decide a battle by boldness
[00:22:12] with which he ceases to bid a ground and holds it.
[00:22:16] So we tried to inspire the younger guys, the new guys, a guy that had no experience in
[00:22:21] the SEAL teams, but we wanted that guy to go, you know what, I'm going to get into this
[00:22:24] room, I'm going to take this building, I'm going to get to this rooftop, I'm going to
[00:22:26] get this good position and not to do it as a rogue element, but within the confines of
[00:22:36] what the strategy was and what the plan was.
[00:22:39] And that's where you end up with a unit that works together very well.
[00:22:46] And you know, one of the things that I remember of where people get locked into these, you
[00:22:50] can see it sometimes in MMA fights, you'll see a fighter that's got a big
[00:22:54] good, you know, ground game or all of you's trying to do is take the person down, take
[00:23:00] the person down, use all the energy, just keep trying to cleanse, keep shooting shots
[00:23:05] and they're getting their shot stuff, but they can't adapt.
[00:23:09] They don't have the skills or they don't have the mindset to adapt.
[00:23:13] I remember one scenario where we had what's called a bunkered machine gun position, this
[00:23:20] is an training, training event.
[00:23:23] So there's a long hallway, this is in an urban environment, there's a big giant building,
[00:23:27] this is all fake, by the way.
[00:23:29] But there's a big giant building and in the end of the hallway, we've got a bad guy
[00:23:35] who's in a bunkered position.
[00:23:37] So he's in behind tables and drawers and concrete and he's got a fully automatic paint
[00:23:44] ball gun.
[00:23:46] And the seals are trying to go down the hallway to get him.
[00:23:50] And they're shooting at him, but this guy's in a bunkered position, they can't hit him,
[00:23:54] he's hidden.
[00:23:56] And so every time they come out the hallway to try and move towards him, he just mows him
[00:23:59] down and first is one guy, then it's another guy, then three guys, then it's six guys.
[00:24:05] Then it's eight guys are laying in the hallway, you know, because every time they get shot
[00:24:09] with paintball, if they get shot a few times, we're putting them down.
[00:24:12] Like, okay, your dead just lay down, stay there, your dead, stay there, your dead.
[00:24:15] Okay, your, oh, you, you're dead too.
[00:24:17] They can't believe they just got a lay there.
[00:24:19] So I go to the guy that's running it and it was a platoon chief.
[00:24:25] And I walked over and I said, hey chief, you know, how's this going to work out?
[00:24:29] And he said, we just got a, I got to get these guys moving down this hallway and I said,
[00:24:34] do you think there might be another way?
[00:24:38] And he kind of looked at me and he realized that, yeah, there's another way.
[00:24:42] He sent a couple guys back out of the building, they walked down the outside of the building
[00:24:48] to the window where the guy was bunker dead through a couple of grenades in there, jumped
[00:24:53] in, killed the guy.
[00:24:55] But the mindset wasn't there to have the flexibility to do that.
[00:24:59] And that's what we were training because I never wanted to see guys get locked into a situation.
[00:25:04] Right.
[00:25:05] That's why training, all training needs to expand your brain.
[00:25:09] And need to expand your mind into ocean constraint, shouldn't constrain your ideas.
[00:25:13] Yeah, it almost seems like that would be a different type of training even.
[00:25:18] Almost like you could, like someone's forcing the double leg or something, they're forcing,
[00:25:22] they're not getting it.
[00:25:23] They're not getting it.
[00:25:24] He should have been trained in other take downs.
[00:25:26] If in fact taking the guy down was a strategy, he should be trained in other stuff.
[00:25:30] Yeah, maybe some judo stuff.
[00:25:32] Yeah, no doubt about it.
[00:25:33] And this is one thing that's interesting.
[00:25:35] I think that's the evolution is you're hearing about Connor McGregor right now and
[00:25:41] I hate to jump on the bandwagon.
[00:25:43] But you see him doing this movement type drills, which is really good because what is
[00:25:51] that doing?
[00:25:52] That's training you for these weird situations.
[00:25:55] That's another in like with training judo with Jeff Glover.
[00:25:59] He puts himself in these weird positions and does these crazy things that when it happens
[00:26:05] to him, he just has better reaction because he's used to being in these strange positions.
[00:26:11] And when we work with corporations and work with companies, we'll do role-playing with
[00:26:18] these CEOs or middle-level managers and we'll play, you know, late for an I will play
[00:26:24] the unruly old job site foreman that knows more than you do and how are you going to deal
[00:26:33] with them.
[00:26:34] And we put them in these hostile situations and do things and say things and that that
[00:26:39] throw them for a loop that makes them uncomfortable, that they don't know the solution
[00:26:43] to and they have to think on their feet.
[00:26:46] And that's one of the pieces of training that I always like to go back to is how can we
[00:26:54] do things that surprise people in training so that we exercise their brain?
[00:27:01] Not what they know.
[00:27:02] We got to get what you know.
[00:27:04] You got to train what you know, you got to practice what you know.
[00:27:07] How do we train what you don't know, what you don't expect?
[00:27:10] Yeah, it's like a deeper, it's like almost like a level deeper in the training.
[00:27:15] Like it's like it's real beneficial.
[00:27:16] I think I think Henerga is talking about this, training due to the good way to train
[00:27:21] for self-defense is training with a real athletic guy who's a white belt.
[00:27:26] So you won't do predictable things that you've been training every day.
[00:27:29] He'll do unpredictable things where you won't be super easy.
[00:27:35] At the same time, it won't be something that you have full knowledge of and full experience.
[00:27:39] Yeah.
[00:27:40] If you get the 280 pound powerhouse that shows up to the gym that's never trained before,
[00:27:48] the first time you train with them, it's going to be harder to catch them than it will
[00:27:54] three months later.
[00:27:55] No, maybe three months it'll be about the same.
[00:27:57] But like a month into it where he kind of knows what he's supposed to try and do.
[00:28:02] But you know exactly what he's going to do.
[00:28:04] Then it's easy to catch him.
[00:28:05] It's easier.
[00:28:06] So you're right.
[00:28:07] It definitely is a transitional time and it is good to train with people that you have no
[00:28:10] idea what they're going to do.
[00:28:12] Yeah.
[00:28:13] And it's not even to say that, and it does.
[00:28:15] It gives you experience with these unorthodox things for sure, but that's not where you're
[00:28:19] talking about as far as what's being trained.
[00:28:21] What's being trained is not to be so dogmatic in your actions and you're, you know, your
[00:28:26] plan is to, this sounds really cliche.
[00:28:29] It's to expect the unexpected.
[00:28:31] Yeah.
[00:28:32] It means you to think that way.
[00:28:35] Well, it's true.
[00:28:36] And I don't know if this is cliche or not.
[00:28:38] I'm pretty sure it is.
[00:28:39] But I say this and people kind of freak out when I say it because I'm like a, a, a structure
[00:28:44] discipline person.
[00:28:46] But I say it all the time.
[00:28:47] Free your mind.
[00:28:48] You know, you got to free your mind.
[00:28:50] That's what, that when I talk about this stuff, I, I hate when I find myself in a situation
[00:28:56] where my mind is not free to see what's going on.
[00:28:59] And I can't detach from what's known and go and enter the unknown and deal with the unknown.
[00:29:06] Yeah.
[00:29:07] You know, another thing that can affect this is our ego and how our ego can prevent us from
[00:29:22] learning or listening to other people or other schools or other martial arts or other
[00:29:28] gyms or other perspectives.
[00:29:30] Yeah.
[00:29:31] So in this book, the last hundred yards, he talks about that.
[00:29:40] Uh, even giving a sister organization with the same manuals credit for knowing anything
[00:29:45] can be difficult.
[00:29:47] Pride in one's unit can help to build cohesion, but it can also stand in the way of
[00:29:52] learning.
[00:29:53] Learning must always take priority over pride.
[00:29:57] How readily a military organization can assimilate new information establishes how easily
[00:30:02] it's component elements can acquire new knowledge.
[00:30:06] The Germans of World War I are generally credited with developing the application parameters
[00:30:12] that define modern infantry tactics.
[00:30:15] Here's how they did it.
[00:30:16] The German army of 1914 was the most decentralized in Europe.
[00:30:22] Free from all but the most general supervision and relieved by a promotion system that
[00:30:28] based, based strictly on seniority of the need to constantly please superiors the German
[00:30:34] battalion or company commander was free to train his troops according to his own lights.
[00:30:40] So the way they advanced people was just how it wasn't based on how well you did on this
[00:30:44] particular thing.
[00:30:45] So they weren't kissing ass the whole time.
[00:30:47] They were just oh, you were in rank.
[00:30:48] You know, you get promoted.
[00:30:49] So they were free to kind of operate and do the best they could and that had a big, big
[00:30:53] impact.
[00:30:56] For example, by 1918 the Germans had line infantry squads that could penetrate allied defense
[00:31:06] lines almost at will.
[00:31:10] As opposed to, you know, the allies who would always try and coordinate these big giant
[00:31:16] massive attacks at the same time and you have to get everyone aligned and you have to execute
[00:31:21] perfectly with thousands of people.
[00:31:23] That's obviously very challenging rather than just saying, okay, our goal is to break through
[00:31:28] the lines going figure it out.
[00:31:30] Think of all the different creative ways that go to figure that out and it's crazy.
[00:31:36] And that's why it was so successful.
[00:31:37] Now the Germans lost.
[00:31:39] They obviously made some mistakes on the strategic level.
[00:31:45] And as a matter of national policy, they made some pretty big mistakes too.
[00:31:48] But that's kind of a whole other, a whole other story.
[00:31:52] Most military leaders agree that doing nothing to prepare an infantry squad for combat also
[00:31:57] does little to enhance its chances for success.
[00:32:01] Most can also agree that providing guidance that is too restrictive may cause the squad
[00:32:05] to disregard unforeseen circumstances.
[00:32:08] The answer will at must lie somewhere in between.
[00:32:11] That's what we've been talking about.
[00:32:13] When you see this with fighters as well and you see fighters that prepare for a specific
[00:32:22] attack from somebody.
[00:32:24] But then that other somebody decides to mix it up and comes out and does something to
[00:32:27] the top of it.
[00:32:28] And I was cornering fighters before.
[00:32:29] We're all gone out and said, oh, I didn't expect that.
[00:32:32] Here we go.
[00:32:33] This guy just took John Bones just took down DC, like where did that come from?
[00:32:39] Why did he do that?
[00:32:40] And I see that kind of that mentality that through things often, it puts people in a
[00:32:46] predicament.
[00:32:47] Yeah, and you mentioned John Jones, he actually even admitted that some of the stuff that
[00:32:53] he does, he's never trained for.
[00:32:54] He did it.
[00:32:55] But it's managed that different, that separate element of your mind or training.
[00:33:01] I don't know if you had training doing that or just a creative person or whatever.
[00:33:05] If that separate element, it's a whole different part of the strategy.
[00:33:11] Yeah, one other asset.
[00:33:13] Yeah, and also you can see that he's encouraged by Greg Jackson.
[00:33:17] He's encouraged and he does things, you know, he has an open mind.
[00:33:21] Right, get a free mind and that goes a long way.
[00:33:24] Free mind.
[00:33:25] That is kind of a cliche.
[00:33:26] By the way, there's a song.
[00:33:28] Is it a free mind and the rest will fall out?
[00:33:31] Or something else will fall out in other words?
[00:33:33] I'm not familiar with that.
[00:33:34] Free.
[00:33:35] Let's not say it.
[00:33:39] So, finally to talk about decentralized command and what I would see happen with decentralized
[00:33:44] command.
[00:33:45] As I tell some junior leader, okay, you need centralized command, you need to let your
[00:33:49] guys go out and do what they need to do and they go out on the battlefield and this
[00:33:53] is it getting in training where no one's going to die.
[00:33:58] They go out.
[00:33:59] All the little leaders would get their own idea and they go and try and make all the stuff
[00:34:01] and happen and the commander would lose control and everyone would get crushed and shot up
[00:34:06] with paintball in the whole mind yards and they come back and it's early to why I did decentralized
[00:34:12] command.
[00:34:13] It doesn't work, see?
[00:34:15] And I would say enough, you did decentralized command, but you missed the key part of decentralized
[00:34:22] command, which is guidance, parameters, understanding of the mission, commanders intent,
[00:34:31] standard operating procedures, limits of advance, all these nice little restrictions that
[00:34:38] you put on the guys.
[00:34:40] Now, there are wide restrictions, I shouldn't have said little.
[00:34:42] There are wide restrictions.
[00:34:43] They give them a lot of mobility, but they understand what the objective is, what the
[00:34:48] end state is, what their parameters are, how far they can maneuver.
[00:34:52] Like they can know, they can, hey, if you can't go past this building, you can't go past
[00:34:56] this road, you can't go wherever you draw those lines so that they can operate
[00:35:01] freely within those lines.
[00:35:03] And that's how they're made, that's how you maintain control with decentralized command.
[00:35:07] When you call them like guidelines, or yes, because when you say operate within those lines,
[00:35:13] is it pretty encouraged to stay within those lines with their creativity or does the
[00:35:18] creativity, is that allowed to kind of overflow?
[00:35:20] Like if you say, you know how far you can engage there, are you saying there are no exceptions?
[00:35:26] No, I'm not.
[00:35:27] If I call you up and say echo, I'm a building 14 right now, we see enemy moving to building
[00:35:32] 27.
[00:35:33] I want to push down this road, or we good to do that.
[00:35:36] If you say, all right, let me check the map.
[00:35:38] Let me check where I'm at the forces are at.
[00:35:39] Yep, we're good to go.
[00:35:41] You can move.
[00:35:42] So, there are times where I have to check back with you to make sure we're good to go and
[00:35:46] make sure that you understand, but I'm going beyond what parameters we're set and that's
[00:35:50] why I have to communicate you.
[00:35:51] But I went all the way up to that point.
[00:35:53] I'm maneuvered on the battlefield for, you know, three, four, five, six hours, maybe it
[00:35:58] was a day, maybe it was two days without having to say echo, I need some guidance here.
[00:36:03] Echo, I'm going to pitch beyond what you told me.
[00:36:05] Yes, so these guidelines are kind of you going with the knowledge that there are exceptions
[00:36:10] as long as they're responsible.
[00:36:12] Yes.
[00:36:13] Or as long as what you do, you'd be responsible about making those exceptions.
[00:36:16] And communicate.
[00:36:17] You know, that's when bad things happen.
[00:36:18] When bad things happen is when you go outside the limitations that you're supposed to be
[00:36:22] in and you don't tell anybody that's very, very problematic.
[00:36:27] Now, when we talk about why it's so, why you have to maintain that flexibility.
[00:36:35] The reason is because combat is infinitely complex.
[00:36:42] And it's one of those dichotomies because it's infinitely simple, but it's infinitely complex.
[00:36:46] And believe me, the complexity of it got me, got the best of me on many occasions where
[00:36:51] I was, where I lost it, I did not, could not fall the complexity situation.
[00:36:55] I had to bad things happen.
[00:36:57] I had to regroup.
[00:36:58] I had to try and figure them out.
[00:36:59] I had to assemble these thoughts in my head as all this thing.
[00:37:03] All these things are happening.
[00:37:05] Going to the book as it relates to combat, the term situation encompasses many variables.
[00:37:12] Mission, enemy, terrain, weather, troops, and fire support, time, space, logistics.
[00:37:21] Each category has many facets.
[00:37:23] Disregarding a seemingly inconsequential circumstance can invalidate and otherwise logical solution.
[00:37:31] One must continually study the possibilities, continually study the possibilities.
[00:37:40] And I've seen that where one little problem can escalate into all kinds of problems.
[00:37:51] That's something that whether it's a unit that we did just what we just talked about, which
[00:37:55] is you know, you know, unit that goes where they weren't supposed to be and they didn't
[00:37:58] tell anybody, that can become very problematic as you can imagine.
[00:38:02] Because all of a sudden, you know, you got people shooting from a building where there's
[00:38:05] not supposed to be any friendlies.
[00:38:06] Well, that's what you're going to shoot back at.
[00:38:09] So that's a horrible situation.
[00:38:12] Things with communication where some radio frequencies go down or for whatever reason you
[00:38:18] lose communications with people and all of a sudden you're in a black hole and you don't
[00:38:22] know what's happening.
[00:38:23] That's another situation where one little tiny piece can really throw massive complexities
[00:38:29] into this situation.
[00:38:37] Going back to Rommel and back to training.
[00:38:42] The best form of welfare for the troops is first class training.
[00:38:48] This saves unnecessary casualties.
[00:38:52] And I think I did talk about this before, but taking care of your people, you know, and
[00:38:55] how taking care of your people, it can mean, hey, that means we're going to cut them loose
[00:39:00] early because that means you're taking care of them.
[00:39:02] But the reality is the way you take care of them is to train them hard.
[00:39:06] It'd be a discipline.
[00:39:07] So I will never lose sight of that one.
[00:39:12] This is a skipping around a little bit, but I wanted to throw this in there because
[00:39:20] because of the fight we had in Rommel and it's just talking about how the fighting in the
[00:39:25] urban environment is so challenging.
[00:39:29] And it says in the book, built up areas, meaning cities should be bypassed wherever possible.
[00:39:35] In urban terrain, the attacker may need as much as a 10 to 1 man power advantage.
[00:39:45] And Sunzu, Rothi Artowar, the worst policy is to attack cities.
[00:39:53] And if troops are attacking cities, their strength will be exhausted.
[00:39:58] That's just a, for time, a mortal trying to fight in cities is absolutely the most
[00:40:05] challenging of all environments.
[00:40:07] Why?
[00:40:08] Because they're dug in and there's, you know, their little strategy is established.
[00:40:13] They're dug in.
[00:40:15] They, they are 300 and 60 degrees around you.
[00:40:20] Oh, yeah.
[00:40:21] They are above you.
[00:40:22] They are to the left, to the right in front of you, they're behind you and they're beneath
[00:40:27] you.
[00:40:28] They're in the sewage systems.
[00:40:29] They're in the basements.
[00:40:31] So you're in this 360 degree fire zone.
[00:40:37] And on top of that, just about every building is a hardened fighting position.
[00:40:42] All right.
[00:40:43] So, so all you have to do is enter a building and you've got a pill box.
[00:40:47] You've got a, you've got a bunker.
[00:40:49] And so therefore, it's very, very challenging.
[00:40:52] And I just talked about having an enemy machine gun and a bunker fighting position.
[00:40:56] That's a nightmare.
[00:40:58] It's a little less of a nightmare when you have tanks to come in and block.
[00:41:01] That's a lot of the blasts.
[00:41:02] So God bless the tankers.
[00:41:04] I love those guys.
[00:41:06] We worked side by side with those guys.
[00:41:10] One, one, AD.
[00:41:14] Guys crushed it for us and we appreciated it.
[00:41:18] Respect for one and one's enemy is crucial to success on the battlefield.
[00:41:24] He is not a coward.
[00:41:25] He is not stupid.
[00:41:26] And he probably has comparable weaponry.
[00:41:29] That's from the book, how to focus on the enemy and make sure that you are respecting
[00:41:37] the enemy.
[00:41:39] Flexibility to a changing situation again in the book, having the ability to detect and
[00:41:44] then react to a changing situation can have great value in war.
[00:41:48] What manuals contain is mostly technique, not doctrine.
[00:41:51] This technique is merely a framework around which to build common sense solutions.
[00:41:57] And what that translates to is discipline equals freedom.
[00:42:01] You have these standard operating procedures.
[00:42:04] You work them, you refine them, you practice them, you get good at them, but you don't
[00:42:08] get stuck with them.
[00:42:11] You free your mind by having discipline.
[00:42:14] And it means that you can adapt these strict standard operating procedures.
[00:42:19] You can adapt them instantaneously and do something else with them because you're a my
[00:42:23] stroke and you can make that happen.
[00:42:28] Now we get into this and this is going a little bit deep.
[00:42:34] But we start talking about something called mission type orders.
[00:42:39] And that is different from let's say what would be called a directive where I say echo,
[00:42:48] you're going to move down this street.
[00:42:50] You're going to take this building number 27.
[00:42:53] You're going to set security in there and you're going to hold that position.
[00:42:59] That's different because now I've told you exactly what it to do.
[00:43:02] I've said, okay, echo, you're going to move down this street.
[00:43:06] So I'm telling you which way you're going to go and tell you exactly which building
[00:43:08] you're going to take down and I'm telling you to set security in there.
[00:43:12] Now what I really want to say is that means you have to do what I just told you.
[00:43:17] Because you have no choice.
[00:43:18] I mean, I didn't give you any other options. I told you exactly what to do.
[00:43:21] Now what if I were to say echo?
[00:43:25] We think the enemies over in this area.
[00:43:27] We want to be able to hold security on them from an elevated position.
[00:43:34] Find a building down there and make that happen.
[00:43:37] So now you've got all kinds of freedom.
[00:43:39] You might pick 27 because maybe it was the best building.
[00:43:42] But maybe 36 wasn't maybe 32 was.
[00:43:44] Maybe 27 was hardened.
[00:43:46] Maybe it wasn't tall enough. But you have this organic flexibility in your mind
[00:43:50] because you've been given a goal of why you're doing the mission.
[00:43:55] Not just what to do.
[00:43:57] So it's very important when you're dealing with people.
[00:44:00] You know, in any walk alive that you tell them not just what they're trying to do.
[00:44:05] What to do.
[00:44:07] But what they're trying to accomplish.
[00:44:08] What the mission is.
[00:44:10] Why they are doing it.
[00:44:12] And that is incredibly important.
[00:44:15] Just like aggressiveness is important.
[00:44:19] And going back to the book from General Howlin Mad Smith.
[00:44:27] Since I joined the Marines, I have advocated aggressiveness in the field and constant offensive
[00:44:32] action.
[00:44:33] Hit quickly, hit hard and keep right on hitting.
[00:44:37] Give the enemy no rest, no opportunity to consolidate his forces and hit back at you.
[00:44:42] This is the shortest road to victory.
[00:44:48] Do I need to even expand on that?
[00:44:52] I mean, I think how in Mad Smith just hit the nail on the head.
[00:45:01] Next point.
[00:45:05] Controlling subordinates only to the extent that surprise momentum are not sacrificed.
[00:45:10] This analysis becomes so familiar with their leaders intent that they can be trusted to act
[00:45:15] on their own initiative.
[00:45:17] They should never be required to ask permission to respond to crisis situation.
[00:45:23] Seconds count and close combat.
[00:45:24] Subordinates must be trusted to act appropriately and only required to inform the leaders
[00:45:29] of decisions that might affect others.
[00:45:32] That's it.
[00:45:33] That's decentralized command.
[00:45:34] Now you're going to think at first that this is a little bit of a stretch.
[00:45:39] But it's not.
[00:45:41] So controlling subordinates only the extent that surprise momentum are not sacrificed.
[00:45:46] I'm going to relate that to jujitsu believe it or not.
[00:45:50] In jujitsu, in any sport, you have to train your standard operating procedures so that
[00:45:58] your body can execute them without directives.
[00:46:03] If you have an instinct to defend the arm walk, you will escape the arm walk.
[00:46:09] If you do not have that instinct because you're trained enough, you will get caught in the
[00:46:13] arm walk.
[00:46:14] If you have to think about the move, it is too late.
[00:46:19] That's exactly what decentralized command is.
[00:46:22] If Eko is out on the battlefield and he gets flanked and he has to ask me what to do,
[00:46:28] he's going to get killed.
[00:46:31] If Eko is on the map with me and I slap a commura on him and he has to think about
[00:46:36] the defense, it's too late.
[00:46:38] He's already tapping.
[00:46:41] Whereas if I go for the commura and his instinct moves him out of that position, then you
[00:46:47] survive.
[00:46:51] The one more thing that I think about that type of training is something we should do was
[00:46:58] called blender drills.
[00:47:00] When you take your seal squad or your seal puttune and you start making calls on him,
[00:47:06] flank left, push right, strong right, center peel, you just do the most random calls.
[00:47:12] I mean calls.
[00:47:15] You're making time to go calls.
[00:47:17] You've got 16 guys, they're called immediate action drills.
[00:47:20] For instance, if you are patrolling through the desert and you start getting shot at from
[00:47:26] the front.
[00:47:27] When you do a what's called a contact drill, you're going to react to that contact.
[00:47:32] The contact is the enemy.
[00:47:33] You're going to do a maneuver as a group and they're all kind of choreographed maneuvers.
[00:47:38] Where squad one goes over here squad two goes over here.
[00:47:41] We laid on a base of fire.
[00:47:42] You start to move, cover and move out.
[00:47:45] But what we would do is we would mix up those calls in the middle of one maneuver.
[00:47:50] We'd call for another maneuver and in the middle of that one we'd call for another one.
[00:47:55] And what it did was it trained the mind.
[00:47:58] It trained the minds of the leaders and of the guys to expect the unexpected, as you said earlier
[00:48:03] in that clichéed way.
[00:48:05] But something that's completely necessary.
[00:48:07] Train them to be reactive and open-minded to things that were going to happen.
[00:48:15] Now when we talk about learning and this is the title of this chapter.
[00:48:25] Then in the book, the last hundred yards, it's called Old Habits, May Get In The Way.
[00:48:30] And I think it's pretty obvious what that means.
[00:48:32] Adults learn, here it is, adults learn within the context of what they already know.
[00:48:38] Ideas that are too far removed from their personal frames of reference are hard for them
[00:48:42] to accept.
[00:48:43] How often do we see that?
[00:48:46] We see it in life, we see it in the business world, we see it in combat, we see it in training.
[00:48:53] Ideas that are too far removed from people's personal frame of reference are hard for them
[00:48:59] to accept.
[00:49:01] Unfortunately, when one gets dropped into a hot landing zone on his first day in combat,
[00:49:06] it's often too late for him to learn anymore.
[00:49:09] For this reason, infantry must continually reassess and expand their frames of reference.
[00:49:15] Boom.
[00:49:16] Hello, life.
[00:49:19] For this reason, infantrymen and everybody else in the world must continually reassess
[00:49:25] and expand their frames of reference.
[00:49:29] Everybody.
[00:49:30] When one's survival is at stake, the other way can hold as much appeal as the established
[00:49:34] way.
[00:49:35] So, clearly, we see people in the business world stuck in that right all the time, we
[00:49:41] see people in their personal lives, they get stuck in a rut all the time.
[00:49:46] So everybody has got to continually reassess and expand their frame of reference.
[00:49:51] Going back to the book.
[00:49:53] What adults know comes primarily from two sources, what they have been told and what they
[00:49:59] have experienced personally.
[00:50:01] Okay, that's pretty clear, right?
[00:50:03] I think that's pretty obvious, but this is when it gets pretty cool.
[00:50:06] They sometimes have difficulty keeping the two sense of ideas separated, becoming convinced
[00:50:12] that what they have been told is true, even though they have never personally experienced
[00:50:16] it.
[00:50:18] And that is something that you see in the military.
[00:50:23] You see in the military where guys kind of, they hear something, they make it into something
[00:50:30] that they think that they've experienced.
[00:50:32] I know it sounds crazy, but they do it.
[00:50:36] And that's dangerous.
[00:50:40] It's dangerous.
[00:50:41] I never, when I realized that that happened, when I realized that that was going on, I was
[00:50:48] very suspect of everything that got said.
[00:50:54] I was very suspect and said, well, let's make sure that we confirm these ideas before we
[00:50:59] just run out and do them.
[00:51:00] Does that kind of like those martial arts demonstrations, right?
[00:51:04] Exactly.
[00:51:05] Exactly.
[00:51:06] But before the UFC and before you actually putting two humans in a cage to brawl, it was
[00:51:12] all theoretical.
[00:51:14] And if someone said, you know what?
[00:51:15] If you strike the person here in the neck, they will fall down.
[00:51:20] And this is, people legitimately believe that.
[00:51:23] Hey, if you hit the person in the neck, there's a break-y on the earth and it'll go down
[00:51:26] to the sky, so I'm so afraid.
[00:51:28] And they will immediately fall down.
[00:51:29] And people believe that, but they never tried it, but they believed it.
[00:51:32] And there was a lot of the times those stories were mixed in with someone that had been told
[00:51:36] that they'd seen it one time or they experienced it or whatever.
[00:51:40] And so that's a good point.
[00:51:47] And this is when you get into people that are not telling the whole story.
[00:51:52] And this is something I'm very careful of.
[00:51:55] Is when I know something, like, I never claimed to know anything 100 percent.
[00:52:00] And I will always caveat everything with, you know, like a 99.9 percent.
[00:52:05] But there's sometimes what I'm giving information.
[00:52:08] And I'm saying, look, this is not 100 percent.
[00:52:11] I don't know this for sure.
[00:52:12] But this is what I've seen and this is what I've experienced.
[00:52:15] Sometimes I'm like, hey, listen, I know this.
[00:52:18] And I have experienced it.
[00:52:20] And this is what will work.
[00:52:22] And I, I definitely, when I was instructing in the sealed teams, I was very clear when
[00:52:29] I was saying, hey, I have to say,
[00:52:30] I've not done that type of mission before or I have not done this in combat or I've not
[00:52:34] seen how this would really work.
[00:52:36] But here's what I think.
[00:52:38] Because that's a lot different than this is what you need to do.
[00:52:40] Because I have seen it.
[00:52:42] I have done it.
[00:52:43] And I do know confidently that borrowing the common sense, this is how you should execute
[00:52:49] this.
[00:52:50] So sources back to the book.
[00:52:52] Sources have many reasons for not disclosing every facet of an issue.
[00:52:57] One is to propound more convincingly their perspective.
[00:53:01] Infantrymen can't afford to harbor points of view that aren't well-founded.
[00:53:06] They need continually to reassess their viewpoint and expand their frames of reference to
[00:53:10] encompassing in forter knowledge from around the world and across centuries.
[00:53:16] Awesome.
[00:53:18] Free your mind.
[00:53:20] Is that kind of like looking something up on Google or on the internet?
[00:53:26] And then the difference between just going with that first answer and going with a bunch
[00:53:34] of results, bunch of websites.
[00:53:35] Yeah.
[00:53:36] And people that see something on the internet and then talk about it as if they know
[00:53:42] it firsthand.
[00:53:43] Right.
[00:53:44] When they read it on their first result, they got clicked on it.
[00:53:46] Boom, there's your answer.
[00:53:47] Yeah.
[00:53:48] Those people out there, we don't like it.
[00:53:51] You're clouding the truth.
[00:53:53] Okay, getting into some leadership and really life choices.
[00:53:58] Then you can apply these to life, you can apply these to business.
[00:54:03] Here are some choices that humans have to make.
[00:54:06] Protect the status quo or take risks necessary to win decisively.
[00:54:13] That speaks on its own.
[00:54:15] Protecting the status quo can be easier than changing it to take action one risks making
[00:54:20] mistake.
[00:54:21] So that's a choice.
[00:54:23] And it's not a black and white choice.
[00:54:25] There's a lot of shades of gray in there.
[00:54:26] And how can you modulate that choice?
[00:54:28] But it is a choice that you have to be aware of.
[00:54:32] Focus in words to prevent mistakes or on the enemy to keep pace with a changing situation.
[00:54:37] This is an interesting professional professionals of all types try to minimize errors.
[00:54:43] Unfortunately, trying to do trying too hard to do so in the military, profession has
[00:54:48] some serious tradeoffs, initiative, ability to surprise when adversary, perspective on the
[00:54:54] overall picture and learning just to name a few.
[00:54:57] And I would say that those are the exact same in any profession.
[00:55:01] That when you, when you are only focused on not making mistakes, how are you going to make
[00:55:06] any risks?
[00:55:08] You, you do do do.
[00:55:10] Right.
[00:55:11] The minute that you're just like, hey, I'm going to go with what I know.
[00:55:13] And I am so guilty of this.
[00:55:15] I am the guiltyest of all in that I'm very set in my ways in the moves that I do.
[00:55:24] I do four submissions, maybe even two.
[00:55:31] But they're like, what I'm good at, so I do them a lot.
[00:55:35] And I go through phases.
[00:55:36] And I shouldn't even say it's phases.
[00:55:38] I go through days where I take a lot of risks and I learn more.
[00:55:42] And then I go through days where I'm just there because I have to train and I'm going to
[00:55:46] do what I do and what I'm going to do and I do well.
[00:55:49] But that's not when I learn.
[00:55:50] That's not when I get better.
[00:55:51] I get better when I'm trying something new and that applies to everything in life.
[00:56:00] Key to an infantry man's ability to react to whatever confronts him is as authority to exercise
[00:56:05] some initiative.
[00:56:10] You've got to give your people the freedom to maneuver.
[00:56:13] You have to.
[00:56:15] In combat, the leader must personally supervise only those actions that jeopardize the
[00:56:19] overall mission and then allow subordinates to exercise initiative and make a few mistakes
[00:56:24] on everything else.
[00:56:26] Those subordinates must be able to identify mistakes as they happen without fear of punishment.
[00:56:33] Or the same mistakes will happen again.
[00:56:35] This is making mistakes without fear of punishment.
[00:56:38] You know, Dean, buddy, Dean, Lister, he does these drills.
[00:56:43] He calls consequence free drills.
[00:56:46] Where he just says, okay, you're going to start, you know, that's almost going to be on
[00:56:50] your back and you're going to try to escape, but doesn't matter.
[00:56:54] Doesn't matter what happens.
[00:56:55] If they submit to you doesn't matter, just doesn't matter.
[00:56:58] Consequence free drills.
[00:56:59] It's just to take chances because all of us, you know, we all hate getting tapped out.
[00:57:05] We all hate giving up position.
[00:57:08] So you do these consequence free drills.
[00:57:09] You go, okay, I look at the guy and I'm like, okay, you're going to tap me out so
[00:57:12] big deal.
[00:57:13] You know, so do.
[00:57:14] I'm going to try crazy stuff.
[00:57:15] And that's what they're saying here.
[00:57:16] You got to give people the chances to make mistakes.
[00:57:19] Yeah.
[00:57:20] And that's an actually an important one because how that applies to life.
[00:57:26] That applies to life.
[00:57:28] Right when you're born.
[00:57:29] When you're, when you're like, if you're, let's say you're parenting style.
[00:57:33] If you have that parenting style where it could make some mistake, he spills his milk,
[00:57:37] or he's trying something new.
[00:57:39] He makes a mistake and he gets punished for it.
[00:57:42] And that's how he's raised.
[00:57:45] When he grows up, he's going to be very reluctant to try new things in life or explore certain,
[00:57:52] you know, aspects of, of creativity, namely starting his own business.
[00:57:58] That's why most people don't start their own business because they've lived that kind
[00:58:01] of.
[00:58:02] I think most of us have lived that kind of life where if you make a mistake when you're
[00:58:04] a kid, you get punished for it.
[00:58:06] You get it in school.
[00:58:07] When you make a mistake on your test, you get that red ax on the thing.
[00:58:11] You got five wrong, not a ten.
[00:58:12] You got a 50 pre.
[00:58:13] You got an F.
[00:58:15] There's your punishment.
[00:58:16] Your F. Oh wait, I don't know these five things.
[00:58:18] Can I learn to all take the test again and show you that I don't know?
[00:58:21] No, you got an F. There's your punishment.
[00:58:24] Repeat the grade.
[00:58:26] The socks.
[00:58:27] There's your, so you don't even want to make any mistakes.
[00:58:29] You don't want to try anything new.
[00:58:31] You don't want to, and you just have that mindset.
[00:58:33] And that's what most people are like that.
[00:58:35] Just however, a point where people, you know, you could be raised in the way where you're
[00:58:40] not responsible for your own actions because there's no consequences to what you do.
[00:58:44] So if you don't study and you get the red X is all over your test and you don't receive
[00:58:48] any punishment for it.
[00:58:49] Right.
[00:58:50] You will never learn.
[00:58:51] Because only he who suffers remembers.
[00:58:56] Right, but there's a difference in you.
[00:58:58] This is, I don't know, it always comes back to that dichotomy that you talk about.
[00:59:02] Where it's, it's really in the middle area.
[00:59:05] So, I think that it has to be leading towards that.
[00:59:12] What you're saying, let them give them freedom to operate.
[00:59:15] If you make a mistake, but they're putting effort into it, that should be commended.
[00:59:19] Don't, if you get one wrong, too wrong, don't give them this trophy that says,
[00:59:23] Hey, congratulations, you failed.
[00:59:26] A failure should, should be, I mean, the goal, right, is to, to make successful people.
[00:59:31] I will, I will, despite what I said or in, in conjunction with what I said about their
[00:59:37] needing to be consequences, I agree that the correct answer or the correct reaction
[00:59:42] would not be you failed, you're horrible, but you failed what did you learn?
[00:59:49] Yeah.
[00:59:50] How can we improve?
[00:59:51] Yes, exactly, exactly right.
[00:59:53] So you notice that was exactly exactly.
[00:59:56] Double, double, exactly right.
[00:59:58] Yeah, for sure.
[00:59:59] They kind of get the best of both worlds, where they get that, that, that, the fact that
[01:00:04] they failed, they understand that.
[01:00:06] And of course, no one's just, like, the, no one's goal is to fail.
[01:00:10] So, they know that they failed, they understand that they failed, but encouraged to improve
[01:00:15] and encouraged to understand.
[01:00:18] But I think, in a lot of ways, people don't get that.
[01:00:21] Yeah, well, you definitely don't see it when in businesses, you definitely don't see it
[01:00:26] in the military.
[01:00:28] And so, yeah, you're right, you got to encourage that.
[01:00:30] Well, yeah, and I think it could get, and it's just me speaking from zero experience,
[01:00:35] but I would imagine that it would get really rigid in the military, because the stakes
[01:00:39] are a lot higher.
[01:00:41] Well, that's why this is talking about training.
[01:00:43] Yeah.
[01:00:44] You don't want to let people make those kind of mistakes in combat.
[01:00:46] You won't give them that much rope, or they can get somebody killed in combat.
[01:00:50] Yeah.
[01:00:51] Yeah, and a training in, in, in, in life, in a learning situation, or a developing phase,
[01:00:57] which in life really is your whole life.
[01:00:59] Yeah.
[01:01:00] So always learning.
[01:01:01] Always learning.
[01:01:02] So I think, to stick to that, I don't know, format whatever you want to call it, to stick
[01:01:08] to that, where understanding of mistakes.
[01:01:10] Don't, like, I'm a stake, I'll legitimate mistake.
[01:01:15] The punishment should not be the significant part of that experience.
[01:01:18] The learning should be, and, hey, look, I understand this different philosophies.
[01:01:22] No, there's just gotta be.
[01:01:23] There's gotta be some consequences.
[01:01:24] Some people don't learn without consequences.
[01:01:26] Right.
[01:01:27] These days with these, some of the new generation, which you, you might even be a part of.
[01:01:32] But the, you know, the new generation that grows up consequence for yous, and they don't,
[01:01:37] taking responsibility for actions.
[01:01:39] They don't take ownership of anything that goes wrong, because they've been raised in a way
[01:01:43] where failure doesn't matter, and there's no consequences to their actions.
[01:01:47] Yeah.
[01:01:48] So, absolutely, too.
[01:01:50] Not to beat a dead her horse on this subject.
[01:01:53] I had some notes in here around this from the book.
[01:01:57] Trying too hard to follow the book, while solving battlefield situations makes one fairly predictable,
[01:02:03] even to enemies who haven't read the book.
[01:02:06] These don't, you see, you have to make some changes, and back to the book, these don't have to be drastically different from what's in the book.
[01:02:13] Often, it's enough to just a very amount of speed, stealth, or deception, with which the standard method is executed.
[01:02:20] Standardizing what subordinates practice in peacetime may make those subordinates easier to control,
[01:02:27] but does not help them learn the alternative techniques needed to develop momentum in battle.
[01:02:33] So, that actually supports your last statement.
[01:02:36] Is it standardizing what subordinates practice in peacetime may make those subordinates easier to control?
[01:02:43] So, if you're trying to control someone by beating them down and saying,
[01:02:47] you failed, you need to do it this way, and it's the only way, you're going to get more control over them,
[01:02:51] but you're going to not allow them to operate in a real world where they have to think of new ideas and think of,
[01:02:57] think they have to free their mind.
[01:02:59] Yeah, and in a way, you might, I would, I apologize, you might not even get the best out of them.
[01:03:05] Really?
[01:03:06] I believe you are.
[01:03:07] Then we'd get that that rigid standard of output, and that's kind of it.
[01:03:11] And going to a quote from the book, supporting your hypothesis from Colonel Merit A. Edson.
[01:03:20] He goes on about how you need to fight the Japanese, and he closes with,
[01:03:25] encourage your individuals and bring them out, which is just a beautiful statement.
[01:03:35] Now, this is kind of to close out this section here.
[01:03:41] We're talking about, and this definitely applies to life.
[01:03:47] Human beings are always trying to structure the chaos of battle, and that may be the root of the problem.
[01:03:59] Human beings, human beings, want to have structure.
[01:04:03] They want things to be orderly, and combat is not orderly.
[01:04:07] Nor is life.
[01:04:10] Nor are relationships.
[01:04:12] Nor are business deals.
[01:04:14] Yeah.
[01:04:15] Nor is the chain of command.
[01:04:17] Nor are personalities and egos, and everything that we try and do to control this chaos.
[01:04:24] The idea that we can control it is false.
[01:04:31] What you have to do is you have to deal with it.
[01:04:35] You have to let that thing squirm underneath you.
[01:04:39] You have to let it move and see where its weaknesses are, and grab hold of what you can and let go of what you can't.
[01:04:44] It's kind of like a universe of physio balls.
[01:04:47] They're kind of, they're not rigid enough.
[01:04:49] Well, I always talk about what I'm training with someone that's bigger than me.
[01:04:52] You get on top.
[01:04:54] You can't hold them down.
[01:04:55] You have to let them move underneath you.
[01:04:57] Yes, yes.
[01:04:58] And that's what this reminds me of.
[01:04:59] Yeah, I'll add this to your list of things that aren't.
[01:05:02] Controllable.
[01:05:04] All of the existence.
[01:05:07] That's why, like you think of a leaf or a, you know, okay, consider something that's control, like that's why we invent rulers.
[01:05:15] That's why we invent thermometers.
[01:05:17] You know, temperatures so dynamic.
[01:05:19] I can walk right five feet away.
[01:05:21] The temperature when you really come down to the temperatures can be different.
[01:05:24] There's no set controlled anything.
[01:05:28] Everything's still ambiguous and slippery in with everything.
[01:05:31] Everything, everything, all of existence.
[01:05:33] But like how you said, where people try to control, that's kind of, that's in our nature though.
[01:05:38] That's why it isn't.
[01:05:39] With rulers and mile markers and it is and it can drive you crazy.
[01:05:44] And if you try and control the chaos of combat, you're going to get destroyed.
[01:05:47] And if you try and control everything in your life, things that are not controllable, then you're going to destroy it.
[01:05:53] If you try and control the relationship and aspects of relationship that are not controllable.
[01:05:57] You know what you control in the relationship?
[01:05:59] You control you.
[01:06:00] You're self in a real ambiguous way, by the way.
[01:06:03] Because you're always adapting ideally from an ideal standpoint.
[01:06:06] You're always adapting as well.
[01:06:07] So yes, it's kind of like, you know what?
[01:06:10] You try and control the relationship by controlling the other person.
[01:06:13] When reality, you need to control yourself.
[01:06:16] Yeah.
[01:06:16] Because most people don't do that.
[01:06:19] Most people don't exercise the beauty of mind control that they can control your mind.
[01:06:25] You can think what you want to think.
[01:06:27] You can put those thoughts in your head.
[01:06:29] You can eliminate the bad ones.
[01:06:31] You can bring forth the good ones.
[01:06:33] Mm-hmm.
[01:06:34] Mind control.
[01:06:35] Yeah.
[01:06:41] And I almost want to close on that.
[01:06:43] Because that's such a good thing to remember.
[01:06:45] But I will follow up with us.
[01:06:46] It says complex instructions are at best.
[01:06:49] Pre-mature during what is usually an inaccurate assessment of the situation.
[01:06:54] So when you're looking at something, and you're going to, okay, here's the plan.
[01:06:58] Here's what we're going to do.
[01:06:59] At best, that's premature and inaccurate.
[01:07:02] What your plan is.
[01:07:03] So when you're trying to figure out what you're going to do with that business deal,
[01:07:07] and you're trying to create this very detailed plan around it,
[01:07:10] at best it's premature and inaccurate.
[01:07:12] Right.
[01:07:16] At best, it's premature and accurate.
[01:07:18] So don't get locked around.
[01:07:19] You're going to make these plans.
[01:07:21] They're going to be rigid.
[01:07:22] And here's the way we're going to do it at best it's premature and accurate.
[01:07:25] So think about what you can control and what you can't
[01:07:30] and move forward for that.
[01:07:32] A good example of recognizing or a good way to recognize if you're not practicing these types of thoughts
[01:07:41] or ways of looking at things is when you make a plan and the plan and it doesn't go according to plan,
[01:07:50] and you get mad about it, you're going to get red flag.
[01:07:54] That's a red flag right there.
[01:07:55] That is a red flag.
[01:07:56] And when your relationship isn't going the way you wanted to be,
[01:08:01] it's because it should be a news flash that you can't control this other human being.
[01:08:06] You can only control you.
[01:08:08] And this goes back to what we talked about on the last show.
[01:08:11] When we talked about your family and your close friends,
[01:08:16] and we kind of got to the point where I think I was saying,
[01:08:22] hey, you can't worry about them.
[01:08:25] And you said the same thing and I think this is a little bit more clarity on that point is you cannot control them.
[01:08:31] So you need to grab what you can, you know,
[01:08:35] keep it as under control as you can, but you're not going to get the solid control that you think you've been vet you desire.
[01:08:43] It's kind of like if you have this big trash can lid,
[01:08:47] and then you have this blob of like mercury,
[01:08:50] you're trying to keep it in the center,
[01:08:52] but don't try to like squeeze it with your hand or something because it's going to come out of your fingers.
[01:08:57] Yeah.
[01:08:58] And that, what if your co-host of a show comes up with examples like a trash can lid and mercury?
[01:09:06] You can't control that.
[01:09:07] All you can do is listen, not your head and say,
[01:09:11] good point.
[01:09:14] It's more of an analogy, you know,
[01:09:16] it's like this comparison of, you know, using metaphors.
[01:09:20] Check.
[01:09:22] So moving on, moving on to some questions that we've got from Twitter, from Facebook.
[01:09:29] Got some really good questions.
[01:09:30] And as a matter of fact, these are a continuation of questions.
[01:09:33] I didn't even ask this time because we didn't get through many of them from the last time I asked for input.
[01:09:39] So these are a continuation which means I apologize once again.
[01:09:43] I don't have the names collected of who gave these questions.
[01:09:47] So my fault.
[01:09:48] I apologize if you, if we answer your question,
[01:09:51] we appreciate you giving us the question so that we could answer it.
[01:09:56] First one, let's get down to it.
[01:09:59] So in regards to jujitsu,
[01:10:03] this is a kind of a common question,
[01:10:05] but your input, ge or no ge.
[01:10:09] Do you train both?
[01:10:11] It's that job.
[01:10:13] The answer is ge and no ge.
[01:10:16] I definitely train both.
[01:10:18] I like to train both.
[01:10:19] I don't care which one they're both fond of me.
[01:10:23] And just as we've been talking about a lot tonight through the book,
[01:10:29] the last hundred yards,
[01:10:31] I want my training to be different and surprising and be uncontrollable.
[01:10:39] And when you change,
[01:10:41] it definitely affects you when you change from ge.
[01:10:44] And then obviously you take off your ge and you're sliding all over the place.
[01:10:47] You have to be a better grappler to be able to deal with that.
[01:10:49] So I want to be a better grappler.
[01:10:51] So I do that and there's something else that's in between ge and no ge.
[01:10:54] And that's when you put MMA gloves on.
[01:10:56] You put MMA gloves on and it is somewhere in between ge and no ge because you can get really
[01:11:00] legitimate risk control.
[01:11:02] It's hard to sneak in a choke on somebody when they're wearing gloves.
[01:11:06] So there's benefits to them all and I try and do them all.
[01:11:10] Yeah.
[01:11:11] What?
[01:11:13] Do you find any benefit to doing one and or the other?
[01:11:18] You know, like if you train in the ge, there's certain benefits in training with a ge.
[01:11:21] I think if you train with a ge,
[01:11:24] your defense has to be better because there's no friction.
[01:11:28] And so if you're going to escape an arm lock with the ge on,
[01:11:32] you have to do it very well.
[01:11:34] If you're going to escape a knee lock with the ge on,
[01:11:38] there's a lot of friction.
[01:11:40] It's a lot harder to get out.
[01:11:41] So your defense has to be better with no ge.
[01:11:44] Your offense has to be better because there are no handles to grab.
[01:11:47] It's slippery.
[01:11:48] The people can slide out of the exact opposite reasons.
[01:11:51] So you, I think you improve your offense more.
[01:11:54] And I will say this. My game is compatible with both where I don't do a lot of crazy lapel weaving in between your legs and up over your back.
[01:12:07] And then back over your right arm, pin and around your neck.
[01:12:09] I don't do a lot of that.
[01:12:11] I don't disagree with it.
[01:12:12] I think it's fine.
[01:12:13] But I like to most of the moves that I do are compatible with both.
[01:12:18] Or there's very small differences between the way I have the games set up.
[01:12:23] Yeah.
[01:12:25] Yeah.
[01:12:26] Yeah.
[01:12:27] And Dean originally told me that same thing where when you train in the ghee,
[01:12:31] your defense starts to develop a little bit more.
[01:12:36] Because you've got to like arm lock, you're in the arm lock.
[01:12:39] You can't just spas out of an arm lock easy.
[01:12:42] And even more important actually is not just the submission, but a cross side.
[01:12:46] Yeah.
[01:12:47] It's a cross side on you with the ge on.
[01:12:49] They've got those candles and it's very difficult.
[01:12:51] Very difficult.
[01:12:54] Or a cross side control, all that stuff.
[01:12:55] And it's easier to hold them down.
[01:12:57] Yeah.
[01:12:59] So if you train no ghee and you're trying to hold some down.
[01:13:01] No ghee, it actually takes more technique to hold somebody down with no ghee than it does with ghee.
[01:13:05] Even though sometimes I hear people say the ghee is more technical.
[01:13:08] Right.
[01:13:09] I don't actually agree with that.
[01:13:10] I think they're both technical in their own aspect.
[01:13:12] Yeah.
[01:13:13] So and even holding someone down, that's more of an offensive move.
[01:13:16] Right.
[01:13:17] And then you can do that with the ghee.
[01:13:22] You've got to understand the concept in those techniques to get out or whether it be being held down or submission or whatever.
[01:13:25] You have to understand those concepts.
[01:13:26] And when you understand the concepts, then you can be successful.
[01:13:30] As opposed to like a no ghee situation, you don't.
[01:13:33] Ness is serious.
[01:13:34] I mean, you should understand the concept for sure, but you don't necessarily have to because you could just spas out of it or like an arm lock.
[01:13:40] You couldn't.
[01:13:41] If you're sweaty, you could spas out of an arm lock with little technique.
[01:13:43] You know, if you're strong.
[01:13:44] With the ghee, it's going to be way harder to do that.
[01:13:47] So you're kind of in a way learn more and flip flat when you go off and it's the defense.
[01:13:51] It's the same kind of thing.
[01:13:52] With the no ghee, the offensive stuff.
[01:13:54] You've got to understand where you got to control his shoulder.
[01:13:58] Otherwise he's going to, you know, have enough room to slide it out.
[01:14:01] So you have to have that perfect control to execute a good submission if the guy's good.
[01:14:05] So.
[01:14:06] And I think, you know, with life.
[01:14:09] What I do in life is I try and put myself in tough situation.
[01:14:14] So I'm practicing them to own use to them.
[01:14:16] And, you know, that's what that's what the physical aspect of life is.
[01:14:22] You know, to improve, you got to challenge yourself and put yourself in the worst scenarios and go and try and get through them.
[01:14:28] You know, whether that's a weight room with a squat rack or whether that's a run or whether that's a swim or whatever that physical challenge is.
[01:14:37] You want to, you want to make it as difficult as possible or putting yourself out there.
[01:14:42] Or putting yourself out there as I have challenged myself to outside my comfort zone into the world of humans.
[01:14:51] Multimedia.
[01:14:52] Yes.
[01:14:53] They say, well, I've heard that public speaking is the number one fear of people.
[01:15:02] I have heard that as well.
[01:15:03] And I, it's hard for me to like do I have no, I'm not afraid of getting up and talking to a few people.
[01:15:10] Like it doesn't, I don't understand that.
[01:15:13] I don't understand what that must feel like.
[01:15:16] Right.
[01:15:17] You understand why, though.
[01:15:18] It's really hard for me to understand.
[01:15:20] Right.
[01:15:21] Start for you to relate.
[01:15:22] Right.
[01:15:23] Well, because, man, it's.
[01:15:25] Do you get nervous talking in front of people?
[01:15:27] Yeah.
[01:15:28] Yeah.
[01:15:29] I think I'm really no different than the most people in that regard for sure.
[01:15:36] But yeah, there's a reason for that.
[01:15:39] I think it's because it's, it's almost like the subconscious feeling that everyone's judging every little thing that comes out of your mouth.
[01:15:47] Every little thing that you do movement wise, you know.
[01:15:51] So your whole being is being judged by all kinds of different people with all kinds of different standards.
[01:15:57] And when you care about that or when you've paid the price for that, maybe.
[01:16:02] I think because we, you know, when you get raised, I think you pay the price for that.
[01:16:05] If you say the wrong thing, if you do the wrong thing.
[01:16:08] Yeah.
[01:16:09] And I think in a way ridicule the, you know, whatever, whatever you've got, however, that looks for you.
[01:16:14] You've paid the price for growing up or you've got to learn another large scale.
[01:16:19] Yeah.
[01:16:20] And that's exactly what you got.
[01:16:21] You're in a situation where that's all kind of coming into your brain.
[01:16:25] You're coming into your brain where you, you fear that price that you're going to pay.
[01:16:30] And it's times a thousand because there's a thousand people there.
[01:16:34] And I think it's kind of subconscious all your left with consciously is this just anxiety.
[01:16:41] That's how we feel for your mind back up.
[01:16:44] No, you're going to put yourself in those bad situations.
[01:16:48] Yes.
[01:16:49] You know, put your, if you're going to public speak or if you're afraid of public speaking.
[01:16:54] You're just a small thing or, you know, do something yourself in that situation.
[01:16:58] And if you don't want to go from zero to 10, do a small one, you know, do something like with low consequences, you know, or less impactful consequences and just start small and and go up.
[01:17:14] That's probably what you did.
[01:17:18] So next question.
[01:17:21] Next question.
[01:17:23] So, okay, micromanagers, how do you deal with micromanagers?
[01:17:29] Okay.
[01:17:30] So if you worked for me and you were super square away, then I was a great boss and totally left you alone.
[01:17:37] If you worked for me and you were not square away, I was a complete micromanager.
[01:17:44] So that's a little indicator.
[01:17:46] Now, I have worked for micromanagers before everyone does. You run into them in the world. And the way the best way I've figured to get out from under the, the, the, the, the draconian thumb of the micromanager is to try and gain their trust.
[01:18:07] And what you want to do is you want to be ahead of them.
[01:18:12] And I want to actually do something that I when I was on the Tim Ferriss program. I talked about how when I told my dad, I was joining the military and I was this rebellious kind of crazy kid.
[01:18:21] And he said, oh, you're going to hate it because you hate authority.
[01:18:23] And I did it anyways.
[01:18:25] And when I got in, I was like, damn, my dad was right. I do hate authority. I don't like listening to people.
[01:18:33] And now I have to listen to them all the time. And then I realized very quickly when I was in my first seal,
[01:18:38] I didn't want anyone to tell me what to do. And I was in charge of the radio as I was a radio man.
[01:18:44] And what I did, what I did was, you know, if the radio's had to be ready, I knew they had to be ready. I just got them ready. I got them ready ahead of a time.
[01:18:53] I did everything before anyone could tell me to do it. I would come in and work to be ready before anyone could tell me what to do.
[01:18:58] So I basically was completely psychotically proactive.
[01:19:03] And just was ahead of the power curve on every little thing that I could be ahead of the power curve on it.
[01:19:09] And eventually it didn't take long. The people that micro managed me, all of a sudden like, hey, I'm not going to bother with this guy anymore. He's already done it.
[01:19:15] Because every time they say, hey, do you have this, it's already done.
[01:19:17] Hey, did you start preparing that already? Did it in this morning?
[01:19:20] And eventually they say, oh, okay, this guy knows what he's doing.
[01:19:23] And what you're trying to do is build up the trust. Because that's what it is. It's a little, it's a little lack of trust that people have.
[01:19:30] And they're going to go the way. And they've probably learned that somewhere. So don't hold it against them.
[01:19:34] But it's your job to create a relationship with them of trust where they stop micro managing you and move on to somebody else that needs to be micro managed.
[01:19:52] Next.
[01:19:55] So what about family and people who are close to you or they all the same? And if not, how do you deal with it?
[01:20:03] So this is the trials and tribulations of the alpha personality.
[01:20:12] And you're always trying to go hard to go fast and make things happen.
[01:20:17] And how do you deal with this is someone that asking this and whoever you are. Thank you for asking this question.
[01:20:26] People are people like me are the same. And if not, how do I deal with it? Well, first of all, no, there's not too many people like me.
[01:20:32] And as a matter of fact, there's not too many people like you echo and people that are listening this, there's not too many people like you either.
[01:20:39] People are unique. And I'm not trying to make people like me or make them do the things that I do. I'm over that phase.
[01:20:50] You know, I've talked about this before like there was a time where I would try and convince people about things.
[01:20:57] And I don't try and do anymore. I'll discuss them. But I'm not here to win an argument. I'm not that concerned about you.
[01:21:04] I'll again, if you're someone that I'm friends with and I'm trying to help you. I'm concerned, but I'm not trying to change people's minds.
[01:21:15] But it's interesting because what I'm really trying to do is I'm trying to appreciate people's perspectives. I'm trying to learn from other people.
[01:21:24] And I thought this was actually speaking of Twitter. On Twitter the other day, I posted a little paragraph and it's by a guy named Mark Rippato who's a coach.
[01:21:38] She's written, you know, probably one of the best, one of the best books about weightlifting that you can get.
[01:21:46] It's called starting strength, basic barbell training, Mark Rippato. But the opening of it is freaking awesome. And I brought it with me. So I could read it to you.
[01:22:00] So here's this opening to this book about weightlifting.
[01:22:09] Physical strength is the most important thing in life. This is true, whether we want it to be or not.
[01:22:18] As humanity has developed throughout history, physical strength has become less critical to our daily existence, but no less important to our lives.
[01:22:27] Our strength, more than any other thing we possess, still determines the quality and the quantity of our time here in these bodies.
[01:22:36] Whereas previously our physical strength determined how much food we ate and how warm and dry we stayed.
[01:22:42] It now merely determines how well we function in these new surroundings we have crafted for ourselves as our culture has accumulated.
[01:22:51] But we are still animals. Our physical existence is in the final analysis, the only one that actually matters.
[01:23:00] A weak man is not as happy as the same man would be if he were strong. This reality is offensive to some people who would like the intellectual or spiritual to take precedence.
[01:23:13] It is instructed to see what happens to these very people as their squat strength goes up.
[01:23:21] Now that's freaking epic. That is an epic call out to the passion that Coach Rippertill has. That's just awesome.
[01:23:34] So I put that on Twitter, I was fired up, you know.
[01:23:37] And because somebody mentioned starting strength and I said, yeah, of course, you know, this is a classic.
[01:23:43] And somebody on Twitter wrote back and it said, I disagree, I will avoid reading things like this.
[01:24:01] And I broke back, again, I'm not trying to argue with anybody.
[01:24:05] I just wrote back, hey, when I don't agree with people on a subject, I don't avoid it. I just try and learn from it.
[01:24:13] And the fact of the matter is, even though I think what Coach wrote is awesome, I actually don't agree with it.
[01:24:19] I don't think that strength is the most important thing in life. I think knowledge is more powerful. I think respect and loyalty and honor and treating people well.
[01:24:29] I think all those things are more important than strength. And there's been people that were incredibly weak in the world that have done amazing things and were powerful leaders and were incredible human beings.
[01:24:42] So I don't actually, you know, believe that strength is literally the most important thing.
[01:24:50] Now that being said, if you are smart, if you are an intellectual, then you realize that you should use that knowledge to be strong, so you can not be physically bullied, so you can be healthy.
[01:25:00] So you can protect yourself, so you can be self-reliant. I mean, there's no doubt that strength is a powerful force, but like I said, there's many other things that I think are more important.
[01:25:10] Now, but what I like about it is that hearing this opinion broadens my mind. It makes me smarter. It makes me understand how important strength is to some people. And maybe that it should be more important in my head.
[01:25:26] Because honestly, when I read that for the first time years ago, I was like, oh, you know what? That's awesome. And I should always keep somewhere in my mind that being strong is important and being strong is good.
[01:25:37] And you know, in this day and age, people actually, I think, believe that being strong is bad.
[01:25:43] As crazy as that might sound. There's nothing wrong with being strong. You know, being strong is good. Never mind, nothing wrong. It's a good thing to be strong. I wish I was stronger. I try and get stronger. And I'm not a naturally strong person. I'm just kind of an average person that works out a lot.
[01:26:01] So my point there is the number number one, when you get people that are different than you, don't try, I don't try and change them. I try and keep an open mind. I try and learn from them.
[01:26:14] I'm trying to talk about this earlier tonight. People have strengths and people have weaknesses.
[01:26:19] And if people have strengths, I'm going to try and learn from their strengths. And some people are, I have more weaknesses. And I try and learn from them as well. You get someone that's an addict.
[01:26:29] You get someone that's a social path. Or you get someone that's a, you know, a real giver or someone that helps. And there's people that one thing that that I don't feel like I help on people enough.
[01:26:45] And so I always look at people that are very helpful. And I say, okay, what can I do? What can I take away from their perspective?
[01:26:51] But you know, if I meet someone that's an addict, I learn from them. They teach me very important lessons.
[01:26:58] People that are winners, people that are losers, I'm going to learn from both of them. Now, back to the original question of, how do you deal with it?
[01:27:09] Because I'm, I'm, I'm inferring from the question that this person that asked it gets frustrated.
[01:27:16] That others are not living up to their expectations. Now, this is going to sound bad when I say this initially.
[01:27:27] Is that I actually have relatively or I shouldn't say I have. I keep relatively low expectations of humans.
[01:27:39] Meaning when I meet someone, I don't expect to get a lot out of them.
[01:27:45] I expect to be let down. I expect people, as I talked about the other day, people are crazy.
[01:27:52] And I expect that. I expect people to do irrational things. So that's kind of my baseline.
[01:28:01] And then what's beautiful about it is I'm surprised and happy and in,
[01:28:09] I'm surprised when people are supportive, when people are reliable, when people are good people, when they make sense, when they're not crazy.
[01:28:22] And so I think setting the right level of expectations is important to keep yourself from going crazy, trying to change people.
[01:28:29] And the other thing I like about this attitude is, I'm not sitting there blaming other people around me. I'm not blaming whether it's my family, whether it's my team, whether it's my people I work with.
[01:28:43] I'm not blaming them for being unmotivated or blaming them for not trying harder, blaming them for whatever. I'm just taking responsibility for what's happening.
[01:28:52] In my, for me, I'm taking responsibility if they're not motivated, I need to try and motivate me if I get a bottom.
[01:29:00] If they're dragging me down, who's fault is that? That's not there fault. I'm letting them drag me down.
[01:29:06] So I'm taking responsibility of my interactions with people to make sure I move it in the right direction. And as a leader, it's my job to get the most out of people.
[01:29:15] I mean, I always talked about that. You're going to have your whole team is not going to be studs. You're going to have people on your team that are weak.
[01:29:22] And it's your job to get what you can out of that person. Take advantage of whatever strengths they might have.
[01:29:29] Cover further weaknesses where you can.
[01:29:33] That's what you're doing as a leader and you're leading, whether that's leading in business or your team or your group of friends or whatever.
[01:29:41] You're taking a leadership position and you're getting what you can out of people.
[01:29:47] And that's how I deal with people that are close to me that are not the same as me.
[01:29:53] Don't want to hang around with a bunch of people off. I don't mind hanging around.
[01:29:58] People that are like me.
[01:30:00] Feel teams is pretty. The seal teams as a lot of people with a similar, you know, they're like, got some similar personalities in there, which is always fun.
[01:30:13] Are there? So you see a low expectations is there.
[01:30:18] Isn't that sound bad? I apologize to people of the world right now.
[01:30:21] Yeah.
[01:30:22] That when I look at you, I have low expectations.
[01:30:24] Don't think of it that way.
[01:30:26] I'm saying in my own mind, I'm just setting low expectations.
[01:30:30] Yeah, because you just don't expect a lot.
[01:30:32] You know, yes, that's like like you don't expect.
[01:30:35] Shitting us, you expect. You just don't expect.
[01:30:38] I just lot.
[01:30:39] Yes.
[01:30:40] Yeah.
[01:30:41] So someone's making this, you know, tall claim, you don't expect that claim to be fulfilled 100% or, you know, or whatever.
[01:30:48] I set low expectations and I look to be pleasantly surprised by those people in the world that people that are listening to this podcast.
[01:30:55] You all out there. You're going to fire me up.
[01:30:58] You know, but really, that's, you know, most people that you meet, you can't rely on.
[01:31:06] Right.
[01:31:07] And that's why it's important to find people that are like minded and link arms with them and go forward into the fray.
[01:31:12] Yeah.
[01:31:13] And it's not like people are unreliable, specifically.
[01:31:17] It's just that if you set your own specific expectations on people, because I was different, you're different.
[01:31:23] Like, how are you saying? So if you set your specific expectations, which I think most of us do that in one way or another, we expect certain things.
[01:31:33] All the way down to the language we use, some people, you know, some people don't like if they are called boss.
[01:31:39] You know, you're like, hey boss, it's a boss. Something, I don't really like that when someone calls me boss.
[01:31:45] You know, if you don't know your name, you know, hey bro, the same thing boss.
[01:31:48] But they meant it in a good way, you know, but I expect, yeah, I expect you never to use that word.
[01:31:52] When you address me kind of thing, I mean it's not that serious.
[01:31:56] But anyway, that's just a small example.
[01:32:00] So if you start setting your own expectations, your specific own expectations consciously and subconsciously, yeah, you, you'll get that down.
[01:32:10] I don't know what that's what I was supposed to say.
[01:32:11] It's your fault.
[01:32:12] And you know what's a good, it's good time to this is, and I run it as with business leaders, where they know their superover,
[01:32:20] achievers and they expect that level of performance out of everyone and they're not going to get it. And the way I explained it to them, I say, listen,
[01:32:26] I understand what you want to have happened. But just because as a leader, the lead the Paltoon commander is able to carry a hundred pound rucksack,
[01:32:35] 10 kilometers into the target, hit the target and walk about out another 10 kilometers.
[01:32:41] Doesn't mean that everybody else in the Paltoon can do it. And therefore he cannot plan that mission.
[01:32:46] Right. And I will usually get food them on that because they do realize that they're high performers and that they're overachievers and that they're not going to get so how are you going to set the expectations so that you're, you've got people that can actually achieve the expectations you've said for them.
[01:33:02] So that's right on point.
[01:33:04] Yes.
[01:33:08] Yes, I did get men set those look kind of low expectations.
[01:33:12] I know that sounds better than be that, but let them be them. Yeah. And that way, when you get let if you get let down.
[01:33:21] Actually, you probably have a less chance of getting let down. So it's essentially you're minimizing the downside.
[01:33:28] Maximizing the upside.
[01:33:29] That's a positive way.
[01:33:31] That's a positive way, but yes, you're correct. Thank you for making me give me a positive spin to my negative attitude.
[01:33:38] I think I understand what you mean. I think so.
[01:33:42] Part of it is denial, by the way, because I don't want to ever admit or think that you had some low expectations of me in my functionality.
[01:33:56] Okay, we'll go next question.
[01:33:58] Okay, what are the top three?
[01:34:02] The top three to ten business problems you're asked to solve.
[01:34:06] Good question. Interesting question. Because why would you say top three to ten?
[01:34:12] Who wrote that? That's crazy.
[01:34:14] You know, you say three or four or three to five, maybe.
[01:34:17] But three to ten?
[01:34:18] No, no, this is actually, I mean, top three.
[01:34:20] Well, we'll go for it.
[01:34:21] That being said, here's the problem.
[01:34:23] Here's the problem that we come up against in Lafayne, I deal with on a regular basis.
[01:34:28] Is we get called in due to either a lack of execution or desire to improve execution.
[01:34:35] And this is the same thing we dealt with with working with leadership and the seal teams.
[01:34:38] You get teams that are not executing correctly.
[01:34:42] That's the problem that we come into solve.
[01:34:45] Now, that execution could be production, that execution could be sales, that execution could be manufacturing.
[01:34:50] It could be anything.
[01:34:52] That execution.
[01:34:55] So that's what we always get asked to solve.
[01:35:00] That being said, why is there a problem execution?
[01:35:05] And the problems, these are where you get like the, okay, five to seven kind of common problems that we deal with.
[01:35:12] We address, we address most of them.
[01:35:15] In fact, we address all the major ones in the book.
[01:35:18] There's a few nuanced ones, but, you know, the generally the issues are like,
[01:35:23] Oh, you can't get people to buy in.
[01:35:25] We always hear that.
[01:35:26] Our folks aren't buying in.
[01:35:28] They need to plan the philosophy and strategy, whatever.
[01:35:32] People don't understand what's happening.
[01:35:35] They don't understand the vision.
[01:35:37] And we go back and we say, okay, do they understand the why are they, is, how is the vision being communicated?
[01:35:42] How is the vision being translated up and down the chain of command?
[01:35:45] Because you go down from the CEO who has a vision and the way he would speak to that vision is a lot different.
[01:35:53] Then the way a front line, you know, equipment operator is going to want to understand that vision.
[01:36:00] So, is the strategy simple and understandable through the chain of command?
[01:36:06] That can cause a lack of execution, hard or silos.
[01:36:09] Are there different elements within the company that are not helping each other and supporting each other with a good, cover and move?
[01:36:16] Is there a micro management going on?
[01:36:18] We are talking about micro management.
[01:36:19] What micro management can cause legitimate problems of execution?
[01:36:23] Is there unclear guidance?
[01:36:26] That can cause problems.
[01:36:27] Is there ego interfering?
[01:36:28] That can cause problem?
[01:36:29] Is there ego driving process?
[01:36:31] Instead of the best methodology driving process, sometimes it's ego driving process.
[01:36:37] So, it's all these, and there's just these problems.
[01:36:41] And there, we've seen them all.
[01:36:44] I don't think I've seen a new problem yet.
[01:36:47] I've never seen that in quite some time.
[01:36:49] I've never seen this before.
[01:36:51] And there are always these problems of execution.
[01:36:55] Our leadership problems, and we've seen the same thing in some way in the sealed teams.
[01:36:59] So, I think that's why we've been successful as a company going in and getting people to execute better.
[01:37:06] Because we've seen it, we know how to fix it.
[01:37:09] And that's what we do.
[01:37:11] All right.
[01:37:12] Next question is,
[01:37:14] How do you handle a boss that doesn't know as much as you?
[01:37:19] And they don't understand what you do.
[01:37:22] But they're bossy.
[01:37:24] But they bossy.
[01:37:26] Okay.
[01:37:27] So, this is actually a normal situation.
[01:37:30] This is not abnormal.
[01:37:32] Bosses often don't know as much as the front line troops.
[01:37:37] I can tell you right now.
[01:37:39] I was the boss of 35 or 40 seals when I was a tasking commander.
[01:37:45] And I didn't know as much as they knew about their jobs.
[01:37:50] I didn't know what the snipers knew about sniping.
[01:37:53] I didn't know everything that the radio meant about new about the radios.
[01:37:56] I didn't know like,
[01:37:58] Lave was working with the Iraqis.
[01:38:00] I didn't know about his Iraqi soldiers and what they were like.
[01:38:03] I couldn't pretend to know that stuff.
[01:38:07] But I was actually secure in that fact.
[01:38:10] I was okay with that.
[01:38:12] And that's what I recognized that that wasn't my job.
[01:38:16] And I was okay with it.
[01:38:18] So, the question is,
[01:38:19] How do you deal with someone like that?
[01:38:21] Well, let's first recognize the fact that they are insecure in their job.
[01:38:27] So, the reason I was able to let my guys run stuff,
[01:38:31] is because I was secure with myself as a leader and my position.
[01:38:35] When you're dealing with someone that's still bossy,
[01:38:39] they're trying to impose upon you how to do things.
[01:38:45] And that is because the root of that is likely.
[01:38:51] I don't want to call it out as a 100%.
[01:38:53] But the root of that is likely in the security.
[01:38:56] He is insecure about his authority and secured about his leadership.
[01:39:00] Insecure about his position.
[01:39:03] So, when you want to deal with it,
[01:39:07] how do you deal with it?
[01:39:09] Your job becomes in this situation to make your boss feel secure in their position.
[01:39:17] That's what your goal becomes.
[01:39:19] That means, and yes, you know what that means?
[01:39:22] It means not in your head.
[01:39:24] And giving them credit where they might not deserve it.
[01:39:28] And infleading their ego, not infleading, but massaging their ego a little bit.
[01:39:35] And you know what that means?
[01:39:37] The hardest part of that isn't massaging their ego.
[01:39:40] The hardest part of his checking your own ego.
[01:39:42] The hardest part of that is saying is,
[01:39:44] you want to prove to them that you know more than they do.
[01:39:48] And that just bubbles up and over.
[01:39:51] And it will ruin your relationship.
[01:39:53] And it will ruin the job that you're trying to do,
[01:39:55] and you will make them feel secure.
[01:39:59] Because you're like, hey boss, actually you're wrong.
[01:40:01] It's this.
[01:40:03] Well, your ego feels good, but guess what?
[01:40:05] You just hurt his ego.
[01:40:06] Now is what they're going to do.
[01:40:07] They're going to try and pose more.
[01:40:09] We'll up on you.
[01:40:10] So you've actually gone backwards.
[01:40:12] You win the battle.
[01:40:13] You lose the war.
[01:40:15] So, what you need to do is make that boss feel secure.
[01:40:19] Massage their ego.
[01:40:21] Don't try and prove that you know more.
[01:40:24] And in a long run, that will be the beneficial way
[01:40:28] to improve that relationship.
[01:40:30] Let them recognize or let them feel secure with what they're at.
[01:40:34] Where they're at.
[01:40:35] And then they won't impose trying to impose their will on you as the boss man.
[01:40:39] Yeah, that.
[01:40:41] I'm going to add.
[01:40:43] What you kind of what you're saying, I think last time.
[01:40:47] It's a small tiny side note, but I think it's really important.
[01:40:50] When you're doing that, when you're convincing or making them feel more secure.
[01:40:53] As a boss, be sure to come off genuine and consistent.
[01:40:58] Remember how we were talking about that?
[01:41:00] Yeah.
[01:41:01] Because a lot of people will be like, okay, that's what I'm going to do.
[01:41:03] And then they overtly want to show that that's what they're doing.
[01:41:06] Yeah, be the other people because maybe they got scolded or whatever in front of other people.
[01:41:11] And then so they overtly do it.
[01:41:13] And it doesn't come off as genuine.
[01:41:14] Then it's kind of productive.
[01:41:15] You know?
[01:41:16] Yes, this is called what this is what I used to call this.
[01:41:18] It's classic over correction.
[01:41:20] And classical over correction, you know, we'd see guys go too far in one direction.
[01:41:24] Because we're always talking about the dichotomy of leadership.
[01:41:26] And I'd say to a guy, oh, you're doing, you're doing too much.
[01:41:32] You're not doing enough decentralized command and they do classical over correction.
[01:41:35] They would lose control of everything or they if we told them everyone was too wild.
[01:41:40] They didn't have control of anything.
[01:41:41] They'd go in a level nine micro management, you know, and just lock everyone down.
[01:41:46] So yeah, you don't want to do a classical over correction. You want to you want to moderate and modulate your efforts to make the person feel secure.
[01:41:53] No doubt about it.
[01:41:54] Can you apply extreme ownership at mid level management versus the C suite level?
[01:42:02] Well, this is this is absolutely true.
[01:42:07] Can you apply extreme ownership or the the leadership principles that we talk about and extreme ownership?
[01:42:13] Can you apply them at mid level management versus the executive level of the C suite folks?
[01:42:20] And the answer is absolutely yes.
[01:42:22] And not only that, but extreme ownership applies through the entire chain of command.
[01:42:26] The principles are meant for everyone inside the chain of command.
[01:42:31] Because as we talk about all the time, the leadership just doesn't mean the actual designated leaders.
[01:42:38] Every person on a team needs to be a leader. And while that may sound cliche, it is actually true.
[01:42:46] So,
[01:42:50] Not only that, but the senior executives at a company, the CEO, they work for somebody.
[01:42:57] Whether they work for a board, whether it's, you know, Steve Jobs and charge of Apple, guess what?
[01:43:02] He's reporting to shareholders.
[01:43:04] So, everyone has some kind of boss. Everyone's working for somebody and everybody needs to use these principles all the way up and down the chain of command.
[01:43:12] The principles of leadership don't change no matter where you are in the chain of command or what situation you're in.
[01:43:19] And that's why, you know, we're getting, we get called in to help every level of the chain of command from the front line troops from literally from the front line troops, the equipment operators,
[01:43:29] the operators in the field, the salespeople on the front lines, we work with them all the way up to the C-suite and above.
[01:43:37] Yeah, just like how you're saying that it applies to everybody and in every situation, it's absolutely true.
[01:43:43] Like in life, in a relationship with your husband or wife and in the relationship with your kids, same exact thing.
[01:43:53] Yeah. Like if you're taking responsibility for everything you did wrong and right, right?
[01:43:59] I would imagine you take responsibility for the right things you did, but if you're taking responsibility, I think that's when you can eventually function the way that you hope that you'll be able to function.
[01:44:09] You are correct just to be clear, though, when you do do something right and you aren't a leadership position, you actually don't take responsibility for it.
[01:44:16] You push that, you push that praise of accomplishment to the team. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:44:24] You never want to absorb that.
[01:44:26] Dang, that's advanced, bro.
[01:44:28] That's actually white belt material.
[01:44:32] Last question, I think. How do you deal with setbacks, failures, delays, defeat, or other disasters?
[01:44:44] How do you ideal with setbacks, failures, delays, defeat, or other disasters?
[01:44:51] I actually have a fairly simple way of dealing with these situations.
[01:45:02] And it's actually one word to deal with all those situations.
[01:45:08] And that is good.
[01:45:11] And this is actually something that one of my direct support, and it's one of my guys that worked for me pointed out to me.
[01:45:18] And he would call me up or pull me aside with some major problems, some issue that was going on.
[01:45:25] And he'd say, oh, so we got this and that and the other thing. And I look at him and I'd say, good.
[01:45:31] And finally one day he was telling me about some issue that he was having some problem.
[01:45:36] He said, I already know what you're going to say. And I said, well, what am I going to say? He said, you're going to say good.
[01:45:44] He said, that's what you always say.
[01:45:46] When something is wrong and going bad, you always just look at me and say good.
[01:45:52] And I said, well, yeah. And I mean it.
[01:45:56] And that is how I feel when things are going bad, there is going to be some good.
[01:46:04] That's going to come from it. And oh, mission got canceled.
[01:46:08] Good. We can focus on another one.
[01:46:11] Didn't get the new high speed gear we wanted. Good. We can keep it simple.
[01:46:17] Didn't get promoted.
[01:46:20] Good. More time to get better.
[01:46:24] Didn't get funded. Good.
[01:46:28] We own more of the company. Didn't get the job you wanted.
[01:46:31] Good. You can get more experience and build a better resume.
[01:46:36] Got injured. Got injured.
[01:46:39] Spray my ankle. Good.
[01:46:41] I needed a break from training.
[01:46:45] Got tapped out. Good.
[01:46:47] It's better to tap and training than to tap out on the street.
[01:46:51] Got beat. Good. You learned.
[01:46:57] Unexpected problems. Good.
[01:47:01] We have the opportunity to figure out a solution.
[01:47:05] That's it. That's it.
[01:47:09] When things are going bad, don't get all bummed out. Don't get startled. Don't get frustrated.
[01:47:16] No. You just look at the issue and you say good.
[01:47:23] I don't mean to say something that's all cliché.
[01:47:27] I don't mean to sound like Mr. Positive.
[01:47:29] Find the positive but do that.
[01:47:31] Focus on the good.
[01:47:35] Take that issue. Take that problem.
[01:47:37] And make it something good.
[01:47:39] It'll bring that attitude to your team too.
[01:47:43] You go forward.
[01:47:45] And lastly, like to close this out.
[01:47:51] If you can say the word good,
[01:47:57] guess what?
[01:47:59] It means you're still alive.
[01:48:01] It means you're still breathing.
[01:48:03] And if you're still breathing?
[01:48:07] Well, then now you still got some fight left in you.
[01:48:11] So get up,
[01:48:13] dust off,
[01:48:15] reload,
[01:48:17] recalibrate,
[01:48:23] and go out on the attack.
[01:48:27] And that right there is about as good as it gets.
[01:48:35] And that's all I got for today.
[01:48:37] So everyone that's been listening.
[01:48:41] Thank you for your patience. Thanks for listening.
[01:48:43] Thanks for spreading the word.
[01:48:45] And most of all,
[01:48:47] to everyone listening to the Jocco podcast.
[01:48:51] Thank you for getting after it.