Jocko Podcast 270: "Relentless" w/ British Special Forces Soldier Frogman, Dean Stott

2021-02-25T09:38:43Z

Underground Premium Content: https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @deanstott @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:06:00 - Dean Stott, British SBS 3:21:42 - How to stay on THE PATH. 3:37:00 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

but I think you you have an interview when you go in and they they sort of say You know you got all sorts in there you got guys who don't want to be in a military You know, I've got A what you got guys with drugs you got you know, you know, there's all things and when now You know you just don't it said you know I've gotten to fight and they're like you just got caught Mm-hmm. I hadn't really had That full transition so guys when they're getting out they have like two year build up You know to do all these workshops and these and this set up their companies my was almost You know crash bang your you're out the door my wife at this point was eight months pregnant You know some like I got it's any workout there, you know what I'm gonna do and we're out of sound like Liam Neeson People with our skill sets tends to be the private security industry You know some guys really thrive in the jungle and some guys It's almost like Closter phoat and you know you just spend a lot of time in there day in there and you hear the helicopter coming in and pick up the lads and you see guys It's just you guys randomly packing their bags in our cheetah now that what you're doing is it all well, you know I'm gonna fail this instructor said you know that ignored instructor said I was relentless but in pursuit of what and why Now Obviously you know it's uh something that You know we we have to deal with death on a big way and in Especially when with with people that You know I don't know how old your dad was when he died but 67 Had to had a grown son and and and kids and had lived his life and you know I know for me But you know we will have a website this password protected because for me the my approach to security is You know that there's certain ways of security up my as is more intelligent space You know you have the private element you know we then have the intelligence side of it and then and then the cyber You know we don't you know I don't normally walk around with type black t-shirts with tattoos you know what it's kind of like like You know when you go to work like let's say you go to work every day and you kind of let's say I don't know you're a manager I don't know whatever you go to work every day and you kind of get updated when you go in about and you they see that you made the effort and you've got the coveted green beret You know Probably they get less pressure if they've done the course But actually saying that the Navy guys were really good because a few years later Which were touch and I ended up being in instructor on the on this command of course So the Navy guys because they have no military background before this They've not picked up any bad habits and so what the instructors were telling them they were doing an Upstrate away where as you may have a Assage and or a staff sergeant who's you know been in 14 years and he's already picked up He's a little bad habits and it's happened to you know Realigning or reset that home all her cock But for us our course I didn't learn anything if I'm on I learned nothing on our course Every one of our instructors got sacked at the end of the course Our course was very officer heavy yeah well done, you know, he knows like you know and lads some Special forces don't even bother coming on selection it's like a big thing a female passing but to be honest, you know She deserved to pass and I I generally believe that if deserved pass you know you weren't the right and I did it much to the disgust of my friend The SES still like what you do it and because it's especially like wreckage it we had a hundred percent pass rate and it was like You know if this guy goes then you know people are gonna look at those options You know UK special forces 40 percent The UK special forces made up of the rule Marines. yeah 4,280 miles but you know unlike truckers and and support team you got a worry I've got crocodiles hippos civil war in South Sudan but one thing I'm excited about this challenge You know I talk about we talked about the successful private security missions You know everyone's quite quick to tarnish certain communities you know with one brush what they see with with TV And they read them and said yeah, these are good to go and you know I had a great senior officer Who said you know we're quiet professionals quiet professionals, but that doesn't mean we're silent professionals There's stories that need to be told there's lessons that need to be passed on so You know you look you can you never feel good about it because we're we're not We don't want the spotlight you're never gonna feel good about it It's always very you know I remember the conversations around when when I hadn't written a book and just saying like We're not gonna do anything that sheds any light that puts anything We don't have anything bad to say about the military about the seal teams like that's that's not what we're doing We're obviously not giving away any Information that could be useful at all to the enemy and You know, that's obviously of You know when when we ran these books when I ran these books through the chain of command But I hear that they'll be like hey like there's little writers there That'll be like hey look we're gonna send these people on a trip To the Bahamas and hey you like you got to you got to say that you don't want to go because of what this lady said Like last month on Instagram or something like this and you better tell her and we'll just see how it plays out kind of a thing So if you see something you like just let me know that you enjoyed my assistant directing I feel like we all kind of enjoyed your 10 List of 10 things that you utilize on the daily business What I think I think that was kind of a cool little hit that you guys kind of you know I mentioned that my daughter kind of drove the The spirit behind that and people think I think people think that that meant that she made it She kind of did You know they they had a means of income for me at the time It didn't work because I was smuggling people across borders You know I was a really you know close relationship with Harry you know so at the time it then didn't look right that you were on TV Say it wasn't you can't do it. You need to go there fully focused You know, so guys guys will get letters from their wives You know blue ease and she's having a bad day, you know if she's at home with a fridge or cold or blue We blew it you just be like blue blue blue envelopes which are free free post garot I was that awful as said I said that's fine But know that no other army light, especially airborne is gonna come in to esps if you call as marines You have to call as troopers so when I went there I was almost like the guinea pig You know what works what doesn't work and things like that You know If it wasn't for those local communities being so hospitable I would never been in success Well on them and that's where they African now is going to be great because it's I'm going to have to rely on the locals to help me and so You know it's not a real record whatever I do is the world record But one of the so that's the next challenge But one of the big feedbacks on the book is yes great endurance, but you are the security guru Why you still not in this industry so for me I've I've got a niche security company you know very low key We help either corporates. and You know, RF Leaming You know, you're tornados and you're your fighters you know with their brown shoes probably and the And let's see that Ariv Lee the J attack course is a wooden hut at the end of the runway You know, no one even knows were there And as we'll patrolling you know to the FRV I was a real man and I kept hearing Something I'm sorry to that Stop the team get down on one knee you know all round the fence and we're all looking for our size There's nothing there but you can hear Almost like the creep in in the leaves you know someone sneaking up on us Anyway, this carried on all the way through we got to the position even when we're in the OP position We could hear it but you need diversity You need diversity in there and that's what the army the army brought in Also the fact that at the time the SES We're running Iraq and the esps were running afghan so again, you know if you guys want to go on selection You know Iraq will start to wind down You know guys were looking towards afghan I thought I'll deal with that on the time It was there was the planet you know one of the things we'd got in the military is that meticulous planning and the detail You know even in the Canadian embassy I thought if you have the right plan Then you just bring that in it you know, so I just took a military set of orders and put it on it yeah, you know Sort of you know I when I got out as well I didn't want to be going out to Afghanistan and Iraq you know I've done my time in the dead I said look I'm gonna cycle the world longest road and you know doing a world record what what should we do it and The This was 2016 so his brother and Kay and him were about a launch campaign in 2017 called heads together Which was a mental health campaign and in the military I'd seen it firsthand, you know some my friends, you know For me yeah for weeks in the snow You know it separates the boys from the men What is the up tempo like when you'd get back out how often would how much downtime which is getting then you'd roll back out Now we'd be rolling you know we'd we'd obviously deserve some research It was it is everything from urban to rural you know we were doing stuff as well in in in vehicles We had snipers in in in the tall buildings in the middle of Pristina You know when you know we talk about identity crisis you spent All this time in the military working in a tiny net unit, you know Knowing what you're doing day out working alongside professionals to like Where do I now fit in society? I mean it's like the a different approach essentially then like a you know like when you think of prison Outside of the military you're like now that's your punishment straight up like you That's beyond a spinner for two hours each night for six weeks How was When you when you got dropped from selection the first time around like you kind of make it like it's no big deal I only know from my experience It's a when you if people don't make it through like a basic seal training It's it's it's horrible because you're gonna be in the regular navy and that's not what you're doing the navy to do and all of a sudden you're doing this other thing That's the only difference You know you are going to you're doing drill you know the guards we're like today We're gonna take off on the runway and there's just be much in this fast as you can I mean you have the gym instructors and then you do Aircraft recognition you'd be on the ranges you go from runs PT you would run out of the camp gates and I remember running like I think It's like you know because occasionally guys are getting the down check because whatever Yeah, I said you know did they may have got through the jungle phase, but it may be look Not this time but with the jungle you only get one attempt Is that that that's your only attempt So they they had their own life so when I joined the army that was it that was my family you know I would only get in touch my dad was at old school you know me and he I remember getting a phone call is that you got to ring your dad about really you know so it's a strategic move Obviously to do that and take care of those people and and give them a good deal and and clean your reputation up after it Been a little bit you know tarnished by this involvement and and you know you go into some details on the book on that about just just the fact that You know you can be sitting there talking to the actual prime minister of the country at the time But in all the planning in the place Doing all our wreckies using his private jet in butterfly over the areas identifying you know There's any aircraft we can utilize you know without the top of the the equipment list We had kit coming in from like platter tank you know all over the world Yeah, you know when guys were getting in trouble more because there's also less going on and Really a lot of a bull is down to leadership too, you know if you're if your Leadership isn't given you stuff to do and pointing you in the right direction Where do you end up if you're 18 years old if you're 21 years old if you're 19 years old and you don't you're not given good direction Where do you end up as a as a young male where do you end up echo Charles? and he said you know these guys Well, you know these guys will or make your man you know

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 270 with echo Charles and me, Jocco willing. Good evening, echo. Good evening.
[00:00:11] I'd made a mistake that was going to cost me my life.
[00:00:16] I turned to the man beside me. He was a young manny.
[00:00:19] We called him H and he was the only passenger in the beat up local car I was driving.
[00:00:25] The air around us with stiff, with heat and tension.
[00:00:30] The vehicle almost rocking as the press of humanity outside began to shove towards me, pointing.
[00:00:35] I kept my eyes down, not out of fear, but so that they didn't get a good look at them through the dirty glass.
[00:00:43] I knew exactly what had happened. How they'd spotted me.
[00:00:47] I was dressed head to toe as a local, from flip flops to a turban.
[00:00:52] I had a dyed beard and my skin colored, but what I hadn't added to my disguise was my brown contact lenses.
[00:01:04] And now my bright blue eyes were drawing the locals in to point and stare.
[00:01:10] I knew it was only a matter of minutes before the neighborhood bad guys started slipping out of their hiding places.
[00:01:16] And tonight I could look forward to an orange jump suit.
[00:01:19] The last thing the world would see of me was the image of a former special forces soldier about to meet his end courtesy of an enemy unfamiliar with the Geneva convention.
[00:01:31] Bullocks. I wanted to talk to H. I wanted to the local man's opinion. But if the people outside saw my lips moving in a funny way, then we were truly fucked.
[00:01:47] And so instead I raised an eyebrow and hope that people would just think I was commenting on the traffic that had packed us into this bustling marketplace.
[00:01:56] H. gave a shrug and reply as if to say, what can you do? What could I do?
[00:02:05] Get my head chopped off or go out fighting. Those seem to be the choices. I knew which one I'd choose if it came down to it.
[00:02:13] But I couldn't help but hear the voice in the back of my head. The voice that had told me always, you'll never last two minutes in the army.
[00:02:20] Well, if this was the end, I'd show them how wrong they were. I'd been showing them for years.
[00:02:28] This wasn't my first covert mission as a civilian. I'd cut my teeth as a special forces soldier.
[00:02:35] And as such, I'd had my metal tested again and again.
[00:02:40] I tried to remember that as yet another local pointed at me and began waving towards my door.
[00:02:45] I pretended to be busy looking ahead at traffic and checked the mirror behind me.
[00:02:50] No sign of our second car.
[00:02:54] I wanted to rub my eyes despite the danger I was knackered.
[00:02:59] Maybe that's why I had made the mistake.
[00:03:02] Maybe that was why I had to get on my radio, hidden away out of sight from the Yemenis who continue to walk by peering in and pointing at me.
[00:03:09] I kept my message short trying to move my lips as little as possible.
[00:03:15] I've been compromised.
[00:03:20] My mate Sam came on the net from the second vehicle. He was out of sight.
[00:03:26] But I was sure that he couldn't be more than a hundred meters away.
[00:03:30] Are you compromised? Over?
[00:03:33] He asked. I confirmed that I was.
[00:03:36] Are you happy with the immediate action drill? Over?
[00:03:42] I knew that drill off by heart.
[00:03:46] The first part would involve me pulling a snub nose machine gun from beneath my seat and emptying a full magazine into the wind screen.
[00:03:54] This would send a very loud signal that it was a good idea for people to get away from me.
[00:03:58] It would buy me seconds to grab my wrapped up assault rifle, wedge between the seat and the door and exit the vehicle.
[00:04:03] Then me and my flip flops would be racing for the nearest safe house.
[00:04:08] Sam came back on the net.
[00:04:12] You're called out.
[00:04:17] My call.
[00:04:20] When it comes down to it, the biggest moments in your life always are.
[00:04:24] I thought about letting out a deep breath, but looking ice cool in front of each was important to me.
[00:04:31] Fear is contagious.
[00:04:35] And so I put mine on a shelf until I got clear of the situation.
[00:04:39] Instead, I imagined everything that was about to happen in this shitstorm.
[00:04:44] Bloody hell, I almost laughed to myself.
[00:04:47] All this over a pair of contact lenses.
[00:04:51] I looked at H, gave him the slightest of nods.
[00:04:56] He was probably sending up a prayer at that point.
[00:04:58] Maybe more than one.
[00:05:01] My own thoughts went to my wife and children.
[00:05:04] If someone wanted to stop me seeing them again, then I promised it would be a fight like no other.
[00:05:11] And then with the thought of my family pumping like fire through my veins,
[00:05:15] I reached below my seat and to call them my weapon.
[00:05:28] And that is the opening of a book.
[00:05:34] The book is called relentless.
[00:05:37] And is written by someone named Dean Stott, who is a British soldier.
[00:05:43] Who served as an engineer in the commandos.
[00:05:47] And eventually went on to the British special forces.
[00:05:51] Selection and became one of the first army soldiers to opt into joining the special boat service.
[00:05:57] Counter-part to the British SAS.
[00:06:01] And that is just the beginning of this story.
[00:06:04] And luckily for us, Dean is here himself to help talk us through his experiences in the military and beyond.
[00:06:15] Thanks for coming aboard.
[00:06:18] It's been a long time that we have been getting requests to have a Brit on here.
[00:06:23] So you're the first.
[00:06:26] Well, we had one photographer who had been to Iraq.
[00:06:29] But I think you're our first British military person. There's been a lot of requests.
[00:06:35] Great. So glad to have you here, man.
[00:06:39] No pressure.
[00:06:41] The whole nation is riding on your shoulders.
[00:06:45] So that's the beginning of this book and the beginning of the books starts off.
[00:06:52] It's sort of the middle of your operational career when you talk about the military operations and the civilian operations.
[00:07:00] But I guess we should start at the beginning. I always like to start at the beginning of, you know, where you came from and how you ended up in this particular situation in life.
[00:07:11] Yeah, let's get to it.
[00:07:13] So I was born into military family. My father, he was in the Royal Engineers and, so very much immersed in that environment.
[00:07:23] I grew up in a town called Old Ashot, which was the home of the British Army. So it's just airborne heavy.
[00:07:28] Yeah, two parrots. He had three parrots there. I'd never even heard of the raw Marines or the special boat service.
[00:07:34] I mean, it was just SES and airborne.
[00:07:36] And my father and my mother, they ended up splitting up when I was quite a young age by the age of eight. My mother left my father and took me my sisters to Manchester up north.
[00:07:48] And we ended up in a homeless home in Mosside. And Mosside back in the 80s was the roughest estate in the whole of the UK.
[00:07:56] Now when Brits say a state, yeah.
[00:07:58] When you're in American, say a state, they're thinking of like a country, a state of everything houses when Brits say a state you're talking about the ghetto.
[00:08:07] Yeah, so it's a ghetto.
[00:08:09] And it's a government housing, right? Is that what it's, isn't a government housing estate? That's where the word estate comes from.
[00:08:14] Yeah, they call them counts of the states. And yeah, obviously to get your name on on the housing market, you have to then go into a homeless home.
[00:08:21] So that's what we did. We ended up in a homeless shelter in Mosside. And you know, I was the only white me and my sisters, the only Caucasians in the area. So we were attracting attention from an early start.
[00:08:32] The, you know, this soon ended up with me learning how to fight with my fist quite early. You know, protecting my sisters in the school play around. Actually, I ended up having to leave that school because too many fighting and we moved to another another place of Manchester.
[00:08:46] My mother, we then got housed in my father, however, used to travel up and pick us up every other weekend. It's about 240 mile drive one way and take us back down.
[00:08:57] My father very close, my sister was very close to my mother. And three years later, my father got custody, you know, of me, my sisters.
[00:09:07] Well, that's, that is that hard, I mean, America, it's pretty hard for a, especially a military dude to get custody.
[00:09:13] Yeah, over the mom. Yeah, no, there was it. I think obviously, you know, he, he put his career on pause. He got promoted to regiment or son, Major was posted to Germany and he said, no, I want to stay in UK. I want to look after my kids. And so he put his whole career online. And I think the judge at the time didn't want to siblings split up.
[00:09:34] You know, he didn't want like two sisters being in Manchester and the sun down south. So the judge said, no, the children made the decision and being the oldest at the age of about 10 and a half, I had to make that quite hard decision.
[00:09:47] And so when I want to live live with my father and he got custody and I, and you know, even to the day I remember the day that my mom dropped his off and the reaction she saw with my father took us away. You know, that sticks with you something something like that.
[00:10:00] But for me, we moved back down to older shots and you know, I'm very close to my father. I never actually wanted to pursue a career in the military myself as you always want to be a fireman.
[00:10:12] But we grew up around there, but my dad is, it was a Scottsman. It was old school sergeant, Major. He was old school through him through. And I remember finishing like junior school and we went on to what you call high school secondary school.
[00:10:26] So this is what age what age is this? Well, I would have been about 13 at this age.
[00:10:32] So at 13, you've been living with your dad for a few years now. And you're seeing the military, but you're still not quite. You're not quite like enthralled by it.
[00:10:44] Yeah, yeah, and I was, as I say, when I was immersed, that our school playground was where the red devil used to take off, which is the British parachute and free fall teams. Every day you'd see the parachutes. The guys would be walking around in the uniforms in their maroon berries.
[00:11:00] And it was just, it was almost like the norm living in older shots. So, but my father was now going to transition out the military. My father, his career wasn't very,
[00:11:11] he was more sports. He was what we would call a track suit soldier. He was very good at sport and soccer was here. So he was the army manager coach and player. So I very rarely saw my father in green kit. He knows it was more track suit trainers and on the football pitch. So I didn't really know much about the military and and the layout of the military.
[00:11:31] And was he going on deployments? He went on deployments to like Northern Ireland, but when he then got custody of the kids, you know, that obviously stopped him going on any deployments. And this was a period of time actually, you know, the last conflict was 1982, which was the fault.
[00:11:49] So there's a dry period up until now. We had the gold for in 91, but that was still to come actually. I was two years, two years later. So other than Northern Ireland, there wasn't really any sort of overseas deployments. So it didn't, didn't really affect him going away.
[00:12:03] But he was now coming to the end of his career and transitioning to civil street. So growing up in older shot in his military schools, he then decided to put me in secondary school in the local town. It's called North Camp.
[00:12:17] But being old school my father dressed me up day one in a blazer carrying like a brief case, a brief case. You know, wasn't even real leather. That was more of a set of them. But my hair was was a croaker.
[00:12:32] You know, rather than going downtown and pay for a normal haircut, my father would take me to camp and just put me in straight the front of the queue of all the recruits. And that's legit. Yeah, so I really stood out when I turned up his school day one, I stood out.
[00:12:46] So is this school like a what we call an America private school where you have to pay to go to or what was different? No, it was a public school, but it wasn't in a military town. It was next to the military town. So the children and went there, their parents weren't from the military because it was so close to older shot. There was a lot of rivalry between and so their haircut just just I just stood out and yeah, unfortunately a week later, I got suspended from that school for fighting.
[00:13:16] Like were you just that angry you, sir? What? No, I just think I'll just put in some really awkward positions and that that being one, but I always remember my father. I know you guys do brisseling jigsuit soon. No, my father again always taught me to fight with my fists and as soon as the guy we call that scarist jigsuit.
[00:13:35] But as soon as the opponent's down, you know you stop, you got the bear of them and there's no like follow up like there isn't nowadays. So I also nervous when I got home and I sort of left the left a letter on the table and quickly ran upstairs to the toilet.
[00:13:53] My father, you know, screamed out my name and I come down and his one question was, did you hit him when he was down? I said no, he said that's fine. And then I had to then explain to him. I said look, you dressed me in this this and he heaps his fore. He was doing good by me when he fact is bringing too far too much attention.
[00:14:13] We then left that she not a few months after that and moved out into the country, totally away from many sort of military town and that was almost the start for me. That was a start of a new life.
[00:14:25] You know, I'd left that military background behind me. So how old are you now? I'm probably about 14 now.
[00:14:32] Right on and then you get to where do you move to when you got this new start?
[00:14:37] So moved to into Surrey. So it's just south of London that's more very very green country the country exactly.
[00:14:46] And now did you, how was that? Was that like a you said it was a new start because you were able to fit in a little bit better.
[00:14:55] Your dad didn't shave your head and said, you're school.
[00:14:57] Yeah, exactly. It was so milky bar. But it was also that no one could judge you. You sort of left your your passport behind you. No manchester fighting.
[00:15:05] And you know, it's almost like this is the baseline you start from now. So, and again, it was actually nice to socialize with kids who parents were in it is learning stuff that was out that military lifestyle.
[00:15:18] You know, all my friends back in older shot, their dad's all their born because my dad wasn't they called him a hat.
[00:15:23] It I mean, it was just like you didn't have any that. I didn't have to prove anything to them or feel like, you know, because your father's career, your part of that.
[00:15:32] And that's what older show was like, it was like, well, what rank is your father? Is he a power or is he not? And he's like, oh God.
[00:15:38] I had a friend who was Australian, essay, us and he was saying, you know, him and his wife were talking and he was like, they're they're having an expression. It was like, oh, they're wife wears the rank of the family. So it's like, oh, we, you know, he's lieutenant Colonel, who are you?
[00:15:55] It sounds like, but I can imagine little kids telling me my dad's not airborne. Oh, yeah, that's for a great. What I call a hat.
[00:16:03] It's just saying that the parachute regiment call him hat. I didn't know where we say helly airborne troop, but it's it's not they're just calling them a hat because they, they don't have the moonberry. And then, you know, somebody army commandos also take on that terminology and call them call them hats or screamers.
[00:16:18] We, in the army, the American army, they call someone that's not airborne. A leg. And it said, was such a dissade. I remember what I wear to airborne school. I come here. You nasty leg.
[00:16:31] And then in the, in the Navy, the, the aviation guys, people that aren't in helicopters or jets or whatever planes, they wear brown shoes. It's part of their uniforms.
[00:16:45] So they call in a derogatory way. They call anybody that's not a brown shoe, which no one's used that turn, but they call everyone out to black shoe.
[00:16:54] And so then in the team, we take that one step further and like the derogatory, who's that guy? Some shoe came over and told us if we couldn't wear that whatever. So that's, it's funny how you get these little little, little words.
[00:17:09] But hat, yeah, hat is the parachute regiment and then the Marines obviously from the army, it's pongo.
[00:17:16] No, anyway, you go the little kids tell you your dad's hat.
[00:17:22] Yeah, and again, no wonder you had to fight on the regular basis. Yeah, if it was able and I'll probably be no right.
[00:17:29] And then so, so you end up in, in Surrey, you're in the country, do you feel like your life's taken a better direction to your dad was a good, great athlete apparently?
[00:17:39] What did you inherit that athleticism and love for the game?
[00:17:44] I did, yeah, I think that's where, you know, I'm very competitive. I like to compete and I think that's, you know, from my father, you know, even to the on Christmas day with the board game.
[00:17:54] I'm very competitive. You, you had to win, you know, and, you know, so I did inherit that from him.
[00:18:01] Sport wise, and I, I followed in his footsteps, you know, played, played football as well. I wasn't great at sport, but I just tried everything.
[00:18:10] You know, I was very fortunate at school. I ended up getting sports personality the year award. It sounds amazing.
[00:18:15] That's a pretty much it.
[00:18:16] But I wasn't the best at football. I wasn't the best at rugby. You know, I just helped out. You know, if they said, right, we need someone on the basketball team.
[00:18:23] I don't really know basketball, but I would step in. So, so I saw it, I had that from my father, but, and I think that's what helped later on in the military career.
[00:18:34] You know, I always found myself competing with others or having to prove prove a point or being a ambassador.
[00:18:40] Well, that's two different things actually. Prove a point or being a ambassador. Yeah.
[00:18:45] I don't know how that's, that's like, that's two different things, right? If I'm trying to prove a point as one thing from trying to be,
[00:18:52] one's going to come at you, the ambassador is going to be cool. So you found that nice middle ground between those two things.
[00:18:58] Yeah, well, I found myself that, you know, when you're in the army and you're working alongside Marines, you're an ambassador for your cat batch.
[00:19:05] If that makes sense, you know what I mean? Then when you go to the SBS, from the army, you're an ambassador for the British army.
[00:19:11] When you're on Jocco's podcast and you're the first British guy, you're the first of the British, aren't you?
[00:19:16] Well, it's proven a point to myself into them, but almost represent in your unit or your cat batch.
[00:19:22] So you talked about, you wanted to be a fireman in the book, you in the book.
[00:19:27] You sounds like at some point you realize there's a lot of applicants to be a fireman and like thousands of applicants to be a fireman.
[00:19:36] It's sort of like an America, we get a similar thing here.
[00:19:38] Yeah. You realized it's probably not going to happen.
[00:19:41] Yeah, well back to the school in my father again being old school, he wouldn't let me go out and play unless I did my homework.
[00:19:47] So he would check everything. So in school wise, I did quite well. I didn't look beyond school. I didn't look at college.
[00:19:53] I thought I was just going to join the fire brigade and he had to be 18 anyway, so I was still under age.
[00:19:58] And at that time, there was a big recession. And I was 2,000 applicants for one job.
[00:20:03] I went to college, every summer holidays as a young kid, my father would take me my sisters down to southwest of England to Cornwall and we would go surfing.
[00:20:14] So I've been surfing since a young boy. So during college, we had a 2 week summer holiday.
[00:20:20] So me and my mates were out, let's go down to Newkey.
[00:20:22] Not on an M-Surf, but they just wanted to try and find girls. So we all went down to Newkey for 2 weeks.
[00:20:29] I was in the water all day and they're just just sounding a beach doing their thing.
[00:20:34] And I met a Norwegian guy called Yarn. And he just got chatting and he was a silver surf his waiter at the local hotel.
[00:20:43] So a fish tall beach is actually on the surf tour, the pro surf tour.
[00:20:47] And a fish tall beach hotel is on the peninsula. He said, well, I'm getting £30 a day. I surf breakfast.
[00:20:54] I get free breakfast. I serve a surf all day. Then in the evening I served even in meal and I get free meal.
[00:21:00] I get £30 a pound in my pocket. It's only £10 for the hostel. I've been in entrepreneurship for that. I'll have a piece of that.
[00:21:07] So two weeks later, my father came to pick us up.
[00:21:10] And this is now where you're talking 94 long before any mobile phones and things that I wasn't in the car park with my friends.
[00:21:18] And my dad's that always deen. And they said, he's staying.
[00:21:22] So your friends met your dad.
[00:21:25] Yeah, my dad dropped his off and he came back to pick us up two weeks later. But I wasn't there.
[00:21:30] Yeah, so again, I just didn't want to confront my dad. And I didn't want to go back to college.
[00:21:34] So I just didn't want to get into an argument.
[00:21:36] So when you got done with what we call high school, how old are you?
[00:21:39] So we're about 16. Okay. So then your college starts after that.
[00:21:44] And this is taking place during this two week break. You go down there. You're surfing.
[00:21:48] Yeah, you're living the dream. And you see this Norwegian cat that's got it all figured out.
[00:21:54] And you figured you're in.
[00:21:56] Yeah, that's my life full planned out. I'll the roadmap.
[00:21:59] And my father then came back six months later. You know, looking for me.
[00:22:03] And he found me working in a local surf shop.
[00:22:06] And he said, you know, right, you've messed up your education.
[00:22:09] That's it. Your life is over. You know, giving it all these little one liners.
[00:22:14] So for me to really just silence him. I just said, well, I'll join the army.
[00:22:18] And you normally expect so warm, come from words from your father.
[00:22:22] But I've sort of met with a response. You'd last two minutes.
[00:22:25] And probably wasn't the response I wanted. But I thought, okay, no, just no point in getting into an argument.
[00:22:31] And the best thing to do is try and prove him wrong.
[00:22:33] But I was about five foot seven and 65 kilos. So I could probably see where he was coming from at the time.
[00:22:40] But he drove me back down to Surrey and then the following Monday, you know, we went.
[00:22:44] I went into the careers office.
[00:22:46] Did your dad go with you?
[00:22:48] No, he didn't. But his office was only 400 meters from there.
[00:22:51] So I walked in and it was in old as shop.
[00:22:54] Obviously, parahevi, airborne, and I came out and went to my dad's office.
[00:22:58] I'm joining the parachute region. He says, you bloody knock.
[00:23:02] And March me straight back in.
[00:23:04] I didn't obviously he was raw engineers.
[00:23:07] I didn't know much about the raw engineers. I didn't know that you actually can do pee company and be an airborne engineer or do the all arms command of course and be a commander engineer.
[00:23:16] All I'd known was him playing football. So when he actually explained a bit more to me, I thought, okay, that's a good idea.
[00:23:22] Anyone you do go engineer, so you'd have some kind of a civilian skill set whether it was building or porn concrete or whatever.
[00:23:29] Yeah, skill you're going to get.
[00:23:31] Yeah, he was thinking, obviously, short term. I'll probably do minimum three years, you know, be a brick layer of plumber.
[00:23:36] So, but also within the military, there was a trades and b trades.
[00:23:40] You'll be trades in the engineers where your artist and trades, which is like carpenter plumber, you know, everyone else.
[00:23:46] And then your a trades was like your electricians and plant operators, sort of big JCBs and diggers.
[00:23:53] So my dad said, well, about a plant fair.
[00:23:57] So I was out garden and didn't know what he was on about. He said, no, he then explained. But again, before that, once he'd marched me back in the office a week later, to go in, do just touch screen test and basically a past it and said, you can choose any trade you want.
[00:24:13] Obviously back in 94, I was thinking more with my penis and I was thinking, bomb disposal, that sounds sexy.
[00:24:20] I said, let's go bomb disposal. So I went to my dad's office, I said, I'm going bomb disposal. Is it, you're not? He just marched me straight back in and then he said, right, why don't you be a plant fair?
[00:24:30] And again, you know, he was sort of carving my path or putting me in the right direction, you know, for step top.
[00:24:36] And that's it. So then you're enlisted. How long was that was the weight between when you enlisted and when you actually shipped after basic training?
[00:24:46] It wasn't longer told about two to three months. I went to a place called per bright. You have like a, it's almost like an acquaint in a free day's air. You do all your fitness tests and then you speak to other recruits, no, get their perception on, on basic training.
[00:25:01] So I was actually, I think my dad pulled a few few strains because I seem to get quite quick to just start point the numbers.
[00:25:08] And then in the book, you say, you basically say that basic training is what basic training is. Is there anything that shocked you about it? Did you feel like you were pretty ready for it?
[00:25:18] Um, okay, my father, you know, he's starting to steer anything. I had to turn up a place called Basinborn and all I'd known about Basinborn is where they filmed full metal jacket and Memphis belt.
[00:25:30] And as the only research I'd done on this place, but he had to be there from 0800 a morning to 1700 at night. You had to parade on the Sunday actually between those times.
[00:25:42] My father had me dropped off 075 with my hair already cut and my bag already packed because he knew it was all about first impressions. You know, if you start coming in, you know, just over five or about half four, you know,
[00:25:55] the instructors were already at March or cards. But I had to, I'd rather that fire to eight and I stood there from eight o'clock till five o'clock in the in the evening.
[00:26:04] So, you know, in reflection going back, I know why why he did it at the time was raining. I didn't appreciate it.
[00:26:11] But, you know, it's a culture shock training. Everything you're, you're sort of used to having your, your home come first. It's taken away from you. Guys, you did have hair.
[00:26:20] So, you've lost their hair and we all look the same. But it's good. You know, it still instills that discipline from the off. How long has British Army boot camp?
[00:26:31] So, it depends what what cat bad. So, the role engineers we do ten weeks basic training and and literally that just is as well. It says it's basic training.
[00:26:42] So, you then have phase two, combat engineer training, which is about 14 weeks and then you go on. If you then want to go do the command, of course, the command, of course, is ten weeks as well. So, if you start putting them all together, it can be quite long. If you join the role Marines, that's nine months from start to finish.
[00:27:00] So, yeah, it all depends on what cat bad you go into. But originally, basic training is about ten weeks.
[00:27:06] And then you got picked up to become, where did you get picked up to become a physical training instructor?
[00:27:11] Yeah, so I see.
[00:27:12] He's like they had a lot of faith in you out of the gate or was that your dad working behind the scenes?
[00:27:16] No, well, what it was when I finished my phase two training, I got my post in order.
[00:27:23] And I remember ringing my dad and my step mum, Penny, and I said, yeah, I've got posted to two-eight.
[00:27:30] And then she starts crying on the phone. And my dad's picking up the phone. He said, what if he said to Penny?
[00:27:36] I said I've been posted to two eight and I can hear him in the background and he said two eight not Q eight
[00:27:41] Like that, but what it was because of my father was the army manager two eight engineer regiments
[00:27:46] We're in Germany with the army champions football champions in Germany. So it was like your thoughts son
[00:27:52] So you're coming out to Germany. So I got posted to Hamill at the age of 18
[00:27:59] Which at the time was good you know
[00:28:01] It was the Deutsche Mark before the Euro
[00:28:03] It was like must cost about seven dollars for a crate of decks at 24 you know
[00:28:08] You know, I was I was seeing Germany which which is now collapsed. I mean everyone's back in UK
[00:28:14] But
[00:28:15] As soon as I arrived my son made a new the call is kiss borders the footballer's you're a kiss border
[00:28:20] You go's I'm not gonna see you because Litchie it was almost semi professional
[00:28:23] You didn't work you trained every morning between eight and 12 on the astro turf and
[00:28:28] You had a bit a big match every Wednesday afternoon and then we still pray play semi pro
[00:28:34] For local teams so he knew that he was never gonna have me as a soldier
[00:28:39] So he said well, I need to fill a slot a billet in the gym so you're going on your PT I course
[00:28:44] And that's how I manage to get it fast track so so quickly and then what that course consists of
[00:28:50] So I flew back to hold a shot and it was right next to one of my old schools and and it's basically
[00:28:55] They get into a position that you can you can teach physical training so when you go back to units
[00:29:00] There's different types of training you can do you can do gym
[00:29:03] PT you can do green PT the hardest thing is gymnastics. You actually have to do gymnastics and just like
[00:29:09] You know, it's like a flying track suit just float
[00:29:12] Frotisha and yeah, probably look more elegant than me
[00:29:16] It's just so you're in a position when you go back to the unit you can run PT sessions and then you end up from there
[00:29:22] You get done with that and then you now is when you check into 59 commando
[00:29:27] Yeah, there's a little period before between that so when I was in the gym I was like I could see
[00:29:33] I could see me almost mirroring my father's career and I was like I don't want it to be
[00:29:40] Tracks you soldier, you know, I want something different so you saw the possibility of mirroring your father's career and
[00:29:46] And something about it you didn't really you wanted to be you wanted to you wanted to get after it in a different way
[00:29:52] Yeah, that's it. I wanted to do some indifferent and so I actually feel like the application form for nine squadron and
[00:29:59] Five-nine and actually on reflection to nine squadron is the airborne engineers which is back in older shot where I grew up
[00:30:06] And five nine commando is down in north-devin and it's no surf heaven down there
[00:30:11] You know, I got sawn and beach, Croyd Beach
[00:30:13] So we are in San Diego and he's from Hawaii, so maybe it's not quite surf heaven
[00:30:18] Bro, yeah, you joined the military because you want to you want to see the world
[00:30:26] You want to experience new things. I didn't want to go back to older shots
[00:30:29] So five-nine commander was well suited for me
[00:30:32] So I applied for five nine commander and you have to go do a four week beat up with the unit before you can go on the all arms commander course
[00:30:39] So you go to the unit first and they kind of do an assessment
[00:30:42] That's it. Yeah, and then and then from there you go to who that sort of like Ranger's going America
[00:30:47] You can go to Ranger Battalion and you haven't been Ranger's career. Yeah, then you go to Ranger's go
[00:30:52] That's it. Yeah, it's like that but back in Germany joined this process when the paperwork was in
[00:30:59] One of the one of the squadrons had just returned from Northern Ireland and they had like a welcome back party in the camp
[00:31:04] camp bar
[00:31:06] There's a course called a
[00:31:08] Soul engineers were infantry can come do engineering courses and there was an infantry unit called the fuselage
[00:31:14] Who wrong camp doing that but they'd a
[00:31:17] Trouble makers basically they'll band from downtown and they'll always cause in trouble
[00:31:21] So they were on camp
[00:31:22] And this evening that they had the big the family get together
[00:31:26] They were in the bar as well and me and my friend could see they'll be quite rude to some of the
[00:31:31] We call him pads wives, you know the lads wives, you know
[00:31:34] And so me my friend you know decided to open up on a couple of them so we ended up you know
[00:31:40] Putting down free guys my my my my my sergeant Major came in is that right you boys go bed
[00:31:45] You know it's brushed under the carpet. I was then really a welcome by a military policeman to hours later
[00:31:50] Send you your under a rest and
[00:31:54] So before I went over to five nine command though
[00:31:56] I
[00:31:57] There was possibility that I could be getting called martial for this fight
[00:32:01] So I went over anyway. I did the first week the beat up
[00:32:05] And then the course staff said I didn't pause me and he said you you've got the flight to Germany
[00:32:10] They're doing an ID parade
[00:32:11] Okay, so I'd depred of some kind of investigation investigation with the police
[00:32:16] Yeah, they wanted to line you up with other other other guys and are you are you like totally destroyed at this point?
[00:32:23] I'm not totally destroyed. I you do worry about your career how this can it can affect your your career
[00:32:28] So I I flew over and
[00:32:31] Me at the time I still haven't grown into my ears
[00:32:33] So I just stood out like you know a sore thumb and they all knew me as the PTI so straight away
[00:32:38] They just be lined yeah, that's the guy my friend who did it with me however
[00:32:42] He's he is brother was in the squargin as well. So he never got picked out so that okay great
[00:32:48] So I flew back to
[00:32:50] Finish the beat up you know to say yet you're fit enough. You ready?
[00:32:53] So I went on and did the did the command of course and
[00:32:56] And when we finished the command of course 10 weeks later we go back to five nine commando and
[00:33:02] the
[00:33:03] O.C. Is like that. He said right guys you guys are going across the water and the squargin were in Northern Ireland
[00:33:09] So forth perfect rough to Northern Ireland said not you stop. You're going across the other water
[00:33:13] You're going back to Germany so we need to get this get this cleared
[00:33:17] So I went back to Germany and
[00:33:20] Basically they said look you can go caught much or maybe we'll get thrown out
[00:33:23] But that's gonna be another 12 months to 18 months. You know, I've just passed the command of course
[00:33:28] I wanted to go be with the commandos
[00:33:30] So I just bleed a guilty
[00:33:32] I got charged and so I spent 56 days in the military correction
[00:33:37] Train and sent it which is cold yesterday prison known as the glass house
[00:33:41] And but the the command and officer actually because everyone knew
[00:33:45] It was me and the other guy, you know, then and they knew these guys are trouble makers
[00:33:49] They're like yeah, you just unfortunately you got caught out so the command in officer was an airborne guy at airborne engineers
[00:33:55] This is the commanding officer at court-chester no no this is this is a German yeah
[00:33:59] No, this isn't Germany. Okay, but you know, so I have to leave that unit first and
[00:34:04] So the RSM march is me and the RSM was one of a football player with me and
[00:34:10] And he's like outright no sapper start
[00:34:13] I was gonna give you 60 days
[00:34:14] But because you've done the all-arms commander course. I've taken four days off
[00:34:18] Any questions? I said yes if I've gone airborne what I got more days
[00:34:23] You saw a gig all done he said like you know, it's time for you to go so
[00:34:27] So yeah, I spent 56 days in her matrices
[00:34:31] Creative trainers center. Yeah, I was looking I didn't know what cold gesture was but it's basically with it's the same term echo Charles
[00:34:38] Would you hear somebody say 11 worth what do you think of?
[00:34:41] Yeah, military prison. Yeah, that's kind of a way cold trip. I think it's the last military prison
[00:34:46] Really in England or something. Yeah, it's everybody knows that the glass house. It's the glass house. It's the equivalent of 11 worth yeah
[00:34:52] And and everyone has you know here horror stories coming out the glass house and what and what it actually is is
[00:34:59] Because when you have an escort that drops you off and they instruct is there to meet you and it's like it is like a
[00:35:05] Scenal full metal jacket. They are screaming and shouting out you but as soon as they've gone they're just treat you like adults
[00:35:10] You know, I mean it's they take away all those sort of
[00:35:13] There's creature comforts, you know, you don't you're not allowed to phone anyone it's
[00:35:19] Two PT sessions a day. It's room inspections all the time. I actually really enjoyed cold chest
[00:35:25] I said if I if I got paid full full wages I would have I would have really enjoyed it and it got to a stage actually where guys
[00:35:32] We're going into cold chest that and coming out
[00:35:36] Better soldiers a lot better soldiers and they were actually getting promoted when they got back to their units and they had to stop that
[00:35:41] I said no it's
[00:35:44] You know you're there for a long you know the bad bad reasons you can't be seen to be be promoted
[00:35:48] So I did I did my time there and
[00:35:52] Went back to five nine
[00:35:54] Right rewind a little bit to the command of course. Yes. How was that?
[00:35:59] Yeah, so I remember my father dropping me off at
[00:36:03] Drive and meet an off Devon to do the beat up and then you know
[00:36:06] I've obviously hadn't told him about the incident in Germany at this point and he said you know these guys
[00:36:10] Well, you know these guys will or make your man you know I mean so you obviously really nervous about things that but
[00:36:16] But it is that the beat ups great you know the five nine beat up
[00:36:20] They actually is harder than your alarms command of course
[00:36:23] So if you can reach their levels of their expectations then as long as you stay away from injury when you've gone your alarms command of course
[00:36:30] You should be fine
[00:36:32] So the all arms command of course is for any cat badges so engine is artillery
[00:36:37] Anyone who's going to be serving alongside free command of brigade with the raw Marines or any naval
[00:36:43] No doctors dentists as well so you've got a mixed run on that course and you've got guys who are
[00:36:51] Young privates all the way through to quite senior officers who may have just been attached to the brigade
[00:36:56] And we also have foreign
[00:36:59] Foreign military there remember we had a a seal no a marine on our course as well
[00:37:03] US Marine on our course we had some guys from Lebanon we had some guys from Russia
[00:37:08] All sorts on there and basically they get you to a standard so you're understanding the raw Marines
[00:37:15] Sort of
[00:37:16] TTPs their SOPs and so when you go to unit you understand that how they operate as well
[00:37:21] You know you do amphibious warfare as well. I mean you also do their command of tests
[00:37:27] So their command of tests in the 30 mile or which is the last one to get you your green beret in all the
[00:37:32] All the other tests that that build up to it and it's ten weeks long and I could be a doctor
[00:37:39] That's gonna get attached to I could be a 39 year old doctor that's gonna be attached to commando
[00:37:45] And I got to go through that get a 30 pound rock on it
[00:37:48] I think for them they they have they were they volunteer for it. You know that they can still serve with a brigade
[00:37:53] But it's almost like
[00:37:54] You know and you they see that you made the effort and you've got the coveted green beret
[00:37:59] You know
[00:38:00] Probably they get less pressure if they've done the course
[00:38:03] But actually saying that the Navy guys were really good because a few years later
[00:38:08] Which were touch and I ended up being in instructor on the on this command of course
[00:38:11] So the Navy guys because they have no military background before this
[00:38:15] They've not picked up any bad habits and so what the instructors were telling them they were doing an
[00:38:20] Upstrate away where as you may have a
[00:38:22] Assage and or a staff sergeant who's you know been in 14 years and he's already picked up
[00:38:27] He's a little bad habits and it's happened to you know
[00:38:30] Realigning or reset that home all her cock
[00:38:34] But for us our course
[00:38:36] I didn't learn anything if I'm on I learned nothing on our course
[00:38:40] Every one of our instructors got sacked at the end of the course
[00:38:43] Our course was very officer heavy and
[00:38:46] It was like we weren't allowed to wear gortex if it rained
[00:38:50] We didn't learn anything it was so out hooks survive in the cold and who was the fierce
[00:38:54] Actually learning anything soldier wise. I picked up when I got to the unit
[00:38:59] But that backfired on instructors because at the end of the course they do like course critiques
[00:39:04] You know how was your course and could it was so officer heavy that they went to town on
[00:39:09] Oh, they went to town on because then this and guys get handed a critique and they're like good good
[00:39:14] Yeah, I'm going to get a beer
[00:39:16] Offs just like let me stay my opinion on this matter. Oh
[00:39:19] Yeah, it about fired every every instructor got sacked apart from the two army guys the engine here and the artillery officer
[00:39:27] But for me. I'm still I'm only 18
[00:39:30] You know you're still developing as a as a young man. I wasn't
[00:39:35] Wasn't fully grown. I remember the load carries been you know really difficult you're carrying some excess weight
[00:39:41] And it's very different from like p company the Paris us us all more
[00:39:45] That they're leaner and then they go faster with with less weight with the command those it's tend to be bigger guys
[00:39:52] Carrying more weight bonus slow speed so yeah
[00:39:56] I do think that's probably one of the hardest courses still today, but that's because I hadn't developed
[00:40:01] Yeah, fully
[00:40:02] Now I got to pull this one section out of the book because I thought it was worth
[00:40:06] Reading this is when you're in coldchester and you have this conversation
[00:40:10] Um, you say drink was a big problem in the forces at the time
[00:40:14] I'd be surprised if it isn't still and so when I was interviewed by the officer of the prison
[00:40:20] I was thrilled about my alcohol consumption
[00:40:24] You were drunk when you hit the other soldiers correct yes sir
[00:40:28] So do you have a drinking problem no sir? I'd have hit them anyways
[00:40:32] Hmm what happened to your wrist and this is another thing you explain I fell out of a window sir trying to urinate sir
[00:40:38] were you drunk?
[00:40:39] Well, yes sir
[00:40:42] Hmm, so you don't have a drinking problem
[00:40:44] I didn't really know how to reply to that one as far as I saw it was just part of army life part of being a squatty
[00:40:52] If I had a drinking problem, maybe the whole army did personally
[00:40:55] I felt like it was just being one of the boys the officer dismissed me and then you go on to the fact that you enjoyed being a coldchester
[00:41:01] Which is
[00:41:03] Which is cool you had a good time, but that's a
[00:41:05] That's one of those things as I was reading it. I've I had quite a few conversations with young seals
[00:41:13] You know hey, so
[00:41:14] You've gotten another fight to borrow right and that's why you're in here talking to me
[00:41:18] Yeah, what are you drinking yeah, and you also were here three months ago
[00:41:23] And you were also in another fight in a bar and you were drinking you see any common things here no
[00:41:28] Yeah, any commonalities between these incidents no I don't know I like to fight I guess
[00:41:38] I got to watch out for that one
[00:41:42] You get to
[00:41:44] You get to to to to 50 you call it five nine or 59 five nine yeah you get to five nine and and
[00:41:51] I thought this was cool couldn't have asked for a better beginning to my time at five nine the admin officer took one look at my report from coldchester
[00:41:56] seemed happy with what he saw and whipped it up fresh start
[00:42:01] But it was a lonely start the rest of the squadron was in northern island
[00:42:04] finishing the tour I had missed out on doing to my two-night time and cally
[00:42:09] I was gutted not to be a part of that but an end up working my favor
[00:42:12] We're sending you on a diving aptitude course
[00:42:16] Usually guys have to wait years to get on this so consider yourself lucky
[00:42:20] So because the other guys were deployed northern island you got an opportunity to go to this dive course
[00:42:24] Yeah, that's it so in the role engineers we we have divers so everything you can do on the surface bit
[00:42:32] Broco cut in
[00:42:34] Welding
[00:42:35] Carvendry scaffold in everything we we can do sub-surface you guys call that hard hat diving
[00:42:42] The OSDS which is the open supply
[00:42:45] Diversist and the Kirby Morgan helmets that that's part of it so scuba's part of it and and so is and so is that but we group everything
[00:42:52] If you're not doing combat swimmer operations like if you're just if you're doing any kind of work
[00:42:56] We call it hard-ha diving like it's a hard-ha dive and it's like good good for you
[00:43:00] Yeah, but like yeah, that's the way we classify anything that's not draggar
[00:43:05] Combat swimmer ship attack you know it's like hard-ha diving
[00:43:08] Yeah before you dive into that
[00:43:10] So this this going to cold-chester
[00:43:13] That's is that on your record or when that guy shredded it was it gone?
[00:43:17] I think it stays on my record. I think you're just trying to prove point is you know
[00:43:20] We draw the line fresh start but actually a lot of a lot of guys do well in the military
[00:43:25] lot of these RSMs you look back especially the guards they've been a cold-chester
[00:43:29] It's almost you touch something in it then and that you'd breathe up a guy if a drink and then three months later
[00:43:34] He coming in tell him again and well, obviously he's he's making a mistake
[00:43:38] I learned from my mistake and I learned at an early stage thankfully it didn't happen later on in my career
[00:43:43] And then obviously have
[00:43:45] Bigger consequences could I still didn't have rank at that point yeah, you know, yeah, no, it's I so in the in the navy
[00:43:52] You have service stripes on your uniform and if you've never been in trouble those service stripes are gold
[00:43:59] So in your dress uniform, you see a navy guy a navy master chief for a senior chief and they're in their uniform
[00:44:06] They'll have service stripes so it's like one stripe for every four years
[00:44:10] You can so you can have a lot of stripes after 28 years yeah, and if you've never been in trouble they're gold
[00:44:16] But if you've been in trouble if you have like a captain's master something like that they're red and
[00:44:22] It was it it was always interesting to see that there would be guys that would be master chiefs and they'd have that they'd have red stripes
[00:44:26] I mean they got in trouble at some point in their career and the reason I asked that is because you know it's up as
[00:44:34] more and more
[00:44:36] focus sort of
[00:44:38] More more attention to the seal teams
[00:44:40] You know, it was like a lot less of a there's there's more of a zero defect mentality
[00:44:45] And if you got in trouble one time, it was gonna stay with you. There's gonna be a problem
[00:44:49] So those gold versus red stripes was it kind of like
[00:44:54] It's kind of cool to have the red one or is it kind of put out the gold or what is it depends on your assessment of the situation
[00:45:00] That's what I mean like what was the common like the culture like if you see in a guy and one guy had a gold one guy
[00:45:05] A huge deal not a huge deal, but like BTF Tony yeah red all day
[00:45:12] It's one of my buddies needs like you know just a a break glass in case of war type of dude and
[00:45:18] Yeah, he had red so it kind of depends on the person's like personality like it's a case by case
[00:45:23] Yes, this is you know back in the day when guy
[00:45:27] Yeah, you know when guys were getting in trouble more because there's also less going on and
[00:45:31] Really a lot of a bull is down to leadership too, you know if you're if your
[00:45:37] Leadership isn't given you stuff to do and pointing you in the right direction
[00:45:41] Where do you end up if you're 18 years old if you're 21 years old if you're 19 years old and you don't you're not given good direction
[00:45:48] Where do you end up as a as a young male where do you end up echo Charles?
[00:45:53] Jale well possibly but definitely in a pub definitely you know being aggressive definitely doing these that's what you're gonna do
[00:45:59] So and so if you haven't gotten some good guidance
[00:46:03] Then it's gonna be problematic and you know we're getting better at it, but it definitely is
[00:46:08] It's good to hear that
[00:46:10] You could you could have a a mistake like that and look you could be how many times did you not get caught right of course
[00:46:17] Yeah, plenty of times this time you got caught it's good that you could get caught learn a lesson
[00:46:22] And move on. It's also very interesting that people would come out of that highly disimplent environment
[00:46:27] Highly disciplined environment in coldchester and do better as humans yeah
[00:46:32] Do better as soldiers that's freaking legit that's proof
[00:46:37] Proof the discipline equals freedom
[00:46:39] Well, that that's kind of a good deal where like yeah, you can go to prison
[00:46:44] Essentially and get what I mean would you call it rehabilitated like if you're improved?
[00:46:49] Yeah, a lot of it. I mean isn't shouldn't that sort of be the goal?
[00:46:53] Yeah, yeah, I think so you know I said it's
[00:46:56] You know we have some in similar we don't have the the bands on our arms
[00:47:00] But if you have 15 years of of good discipline you get the long service good conduct metal
[00:47:05] Yeah, you have things you know to aspire to but you know
[00:47:09] I think everyone will get in trouble as that as long as you learn from it it's character building as well
[00:47:14] And thankfully for me it was at an early age. My good friend now he's he's the RSM and the SES
[00:47:19] He was in coldchester prison with me as well
[00:47:21] So but that's where it's the height it's been almost like oh people are getting promoted and it's the wrong reasons for be going there
[00:47:29] But as you if you come out a different man different soldier
[00:47:32] But like I said the instructions in there were amazing and that's probably you know
[00:47:35] That was reflective on the guys when it came out well
[00:47:38] It's interesting that you actually call them instructors and not guards right when you go into the navy brick
[00:47:44] If you're in the Marine Corps in the Navy you get in trouble you go into the brig and those are guards
[00:47:48] They're not instructors so it's kind of cool that they were actually trying to who well
[00:47:52] Do you think that they were trying to teach you they were trying to well you for it?
[00:47:54] Yeah, well you you have military lessons it is just being on camp
[00:47:57] But you would just lock-up at night. That's the only difference
[00:48:00] You know you are going to you're doing drill you know the guards we're like today
[00:48:04] We're gonna take off on the runway and there's just be much in this fast as you can
[00:48:07] I mean you have the gym instructors and then you do
[00:48:10] Aircraft recognition you'd be on the ranges you go from runs PT you would run out of the camp gates and I remember running like I think
[00:48:18] But I knew that if someone wanted to take it a bulk for it and you stopped them it reduced your sentence
[00:48:23] I was I was keeping an eye out you know for any sort of
[00:48:26] Really, you tackled somebody yeah, yeah, yeah, but I think you you have an interview when you go in and they they sort of say
[00:48:33] You know you got all sorts in there you got guys who don't want to be in a military
[00:48:37] You know, I've got A what you got guys with drugs you got you know, you know, there's all things and when now
[00:48:41] You know you just don't it said you know I've gotten to fight and they're like you just got caught
[00:48:45] Mm-hmm. That's it. Yeah, that they they and this they've probably been in the position you've been in before
[00:48:50] But just didn't get caught
[00:48:51] So so it's like more I mean it's like the a different approach essentially then like a you know like when you think of prison
[00:48:58] Outside of the military you're like now that's your punishment straight up like you you're it's essentially like the
[00:49:04] The difference between a beating and a counseling kind of thing yeah, so like you know what you're talking about it's kind of a counseling like hey
[00:49:10] He did this let's let's let's kind of
[00:49:14] Re-benefits from this whole situation you improve you well they have programs like this now that I think about it
[00:49:19] They have programs like this in America. I don't know if they have an England
[00:49:22] But they take kids that are on the wrong track and they put them into like a highly disciplined
[00:49:27] Military militaristic environment and it definitely can straighten them out. I
[00:49:31] I sponsored a kid going if you want to those things and went up there and saw what they were doing and it's like a lot of those kids really turn around and start doing well
[00:49:39] Yeah, so yeah, and then
[00:49:41] But then if you just get the beating it's like you just it's a yeah, it's just a different approach, right?
[00:49:46] It's more effective. I think for the military you know if you come out a different person
[00:49:50] You know if you become out and then you re-affended and obviously that there's a problem
[00:49:55] But I think it's almost like yes, it's one strike
[00:49:57] Yeah, because you you can go in and you have 28 days and under and 28 days and older
[00:50:02] It's like two different wings and sort of look down
[00:50:05] Down at the 28 days and that book you're like I'm competitive about it. You guys are over here for 28 days. I'm big type
[00:50:12] I mean you got the ones actually we're gonna get discharged from the military as well
[00:50:15] But rather than just thrown them out they gave it they would go do
[00:50:18] Plumbing courses carbon to courses so those stuff that that's a help them
[00:50:22] That's a square the way okay, so I cut you off when you're starting to talk about dive
[00:50:26] Squire. I'm sorry, but yeah, no, it's yeah, so um, but for the raw engineers have divers
[00:50:31] And we have about 450
[00:50:33] divers at the moment and and basically
[00:50:36] What um when I was in Germany
[00:50:38] There was always things on orders asking for guys who want to go on a dive course because everyone's heard of P company
[00:50:43] The paracourse and the all arms command of course, but the dive course
[00:50:46] I think it's probably one of the most the ideas and underrated and underrated courses
[00:50:50] There's also an additional quals you get you get more money back back in a day when I did it was only £2.65
[00:50:56] About five dollars a day
[00:50:58] But now you're talking you know 20 pounds so 35 40 dollars
[00:51:02] So they used to always be anyone want to go out of class
[00:51:06] Exactly
[00:51:07] But there was there's struggle to get volunteers from other units
[00:51:12] Because of the guys some airborne engineers and
[00:51:14] Commander engineers could they're so already physically robust that there's a weight in this you know you are the back of that list
[00:51:22] But because they're all in Germany
[00:51:24] So all in Northern Ireland they're allowed or you're going on the absolute so I literally must
[00:51:28] They're just fast tracked two or three years to get on it on this course
[00:51:32] So I went and did my absolute and
[00:51:35] Now I've seen dive in change over the years and this was back in 1997 and
[00:51:41] And it was it was called a desk at dive and set self-contained compressed there's like scuba
[00:51:48] But it was no comms we don't have any comms it was nil visibility
[00:51:52] The only way we communicate we had a lifeline a rope around our chest with a bow line and it just do pools and bells
[00:51:59] So is an alien as you know under water's an alien environment
[00:52:04] So a lot of guys don't like it but for me
[00:52:06] Been surfing and I love the war it was almost like for me I'm more comfortable underwater
[00:52:11] And I am on land so so I did that course came back and the squadron had just returned from the Northern Ireland
[00:52:18] So here's me now and it's new unit
[00:52:21] Just stolen everyone's dive course which everyone's on the weight list score and they've obviously heard I've just come out of cold chest
[00:52:27] The prison so there's a couple there was a couple of names within the unit like
[00:52:31] You know squadron bullies and a lot of all wait till such and such
[00:52:35] Season I thought here we go we had a Christmas pie and one of the lads just comes over
[00:52:40] Sit all you think your hand in just just full on straight in the face
[00:52:45] So I you know I just I just right hooked him back and you know he's that back
[00:52:50] So I saw all I needed to know and I think that's sort of
[00:52:54] No give my my foot in the door within the unit but
[00:52:57] What five nine commando used to be the army minor unit box in champions and each year
[00:53:04] They were because they won the final they'd automatically go to the final the next year
[00:53:09] And each year our opponents were the airborne engineers
[00:53:12] So this was coming up in January free mums train it. I didn't have a choice to that well
[00:53:17] You've been a court yesterday, surprisingly run the boxing team. What's up really?
[00:53:20] So um, so we went I just spent three mums. Did you ever box before?
[00:53:24] I did in in gulfid where near Surrey
[00:53:28] One of my friends from school we went to a place called Bellefields
[00:53:30] So I did a bit of boxing in there and again my father
[00:53:33] Didn't want me boxing and I saw her in agreement and I was like well look I'll
[00:53:37] Box until I get beat and then you know then I'll stop so thankfully I never I never got beat
[00:53:42] I only had to about three fights. I think when I was at one as there
[00:53:45] But in the military in five nine commando. It's it's just pure fitness
[00:53:49] There's no boxing skill at all and we always have three or four PT sessions a day and rather than like
[00:53:57] Lose the weight over period of time. They lose the weight in a short period. I mean you got a maintain it
[00:54:03] But three mums later we had the army mine units finals and there's other guys from the squadron
[00:54:09] Based at other training units and there's you can see in reading the book like
[00:54:13] Who's this start who's this new lad and
[00:54:15] And we thought we were gonna walk away with it and at the interval it was too all the seven fights at a night
[00:54:21] It's too all at the interval and the member decided to major coming in and he's just like my chest
[00:54:26] You need to you know
[00:54:28] Poca me right in the middle of chess and I was like oh my god and
[00:54:32] I came out and I I tears him I was the dreading was pumping
[00:54:36] But went out and I knocked the guy down
[00:54:38] Three times in a minute and 20 seconds and and that literally you know
[00:54:42] I'd made my mark within five nine command of an asset would in quite well
[00:54:47] That's awesome good story
[00:54:50] You go you go here in the book you say it wasn't it wasn't long to my time at five nine that I was selected for
[00:54:56] Recky troop a kind of elite within the squadron
[00:54:59] It was a huge privilege as Recky was known as being a great stepping stone towards the special forces and idea that I'd be
[00:55:06] gun to toy with
[00:55:08] Thinking about my future in the army
[00:55:10] So you end up in Recky troop as a year so in free commander rigidia five nine commando
[00:55:18] Engineers at support the brigade you have two nine commando the artillery and
[00:55:22] Within free commander rigid they have their own sort of
[00:55:27] reconnaissance
[00:55:28] troop called
[00:55:29] Brigade Recky force or brigade prepared
[00:55:32] Brigade for troll troop
[00:55:33] From the Marines which consists of snipers and amount in leaders but also part of that group is
[00:55:39] Naval gunfire from the artillery and also five nine wrecky troop
[00:55:44] So we're almost like eyes on the ground advance size on the ground
[00:55:47] You know given input on potential combat engineering tasks
[00:55:51] So you have to be selected from Recky troop within five nine commando and they did that in Norway
[00:55:56] So each year we used to go to Norway for free months and the whole of the brigade and we do
[00:56:01] Hearty warfare training it was all due to the cold war and if the Russians was starting to head west across
[00:56:07] Norway that we'd be able to you know to stop it so you know and Norway's an equaliser
[00:56:13] And that that separates the boys from the men so I'd got my name would be no picked up to go Recky troop and
[00:56:21] So yeah, so very fortunate to get selected again
[00:56:24] a young age to go Recky troop and
[00:56:28] Within five nine commando is actually classed as a post in so my time it started again as I as I entered in into Recky troop
[00:56:36] As you touched on there a Recky troop at a hundred percent pass rate for UK special forces selection
[00:56:42] So guys I would see guys leaving and never come back
[00:56:46] So for me this when I then started my head started turning towards your patunius special forces
[00:56:52] You know my dad told me last two minutes I managed to get through base at training
[00:56:56] I've done a peach out a manager get through coldchester a manager get through the commander course
[00:57:00] I'm now just about getting my my paroings and you're also then amongst like minded individuals those who want to go or aspire to be special forces
[00:57:09] So yeah, that was Recky troop for me. Did you did you go through any
[00:57:14] Official training for Recky troop? Do you have to go to a school or is it just from the units yourself you could train up?
[00:57:19] They they had their own selection process with it within the unit and then you used to have to go do pee company
[00:57:24] So the the airborne engineers
[00:57:27] Of course, but when I when I got there our troops staff sergeant you know
[00:57:30] Said there's no need to do pee company, you know
[00:57:33] We'll run our own selection process which
[00:57:36] Disgrantled somebody older boys they felt no you have to do pee company
[00:57:40] But there was a big difference as well now in the guys that are going Recky troop compared to the guys of old
[00:57:45] This guys of old were like you jocker though just huge you know
[00:57:48] They're just massive guys. It was all about fitness where is now?
[00:57:52] You know the world was sort of evolving the Balkans had kicked off and so five nine commander went to
[00:58:00] Bosnia and Recky troop we went to to Kosovo we brigade Recky force
[00:58:04] Well, this is the first operational tour the Recky troops since the Folklands war
[00:58:09] So the guys in between that period hadn't seen any action and then we then
[00:58:14] When I went over to Kosovo which was great for us
[00:58:16] Yeah, you you say here one day I called home to the UK with news for my dad
[00:58:22] He'd probably forgot along ago about our two minutes conversation in the car
[00:58:26] I had and I had a big smile on my face that game the news. I'm going to Kosovo
[00:58:30] I told the old soldier. I'm going on tour and this is in this is in 2000 sir if you were gonna do something real
[00:58:37] Going into going into the going into the
[00:58:40] Going into Kosovo was as good as it was gonna get at that time. Yeah, that time. Yeah
[00:58:43] Then what types of missions were you doing there so Brigade Recky force so we were we were doing as you know forward observation
[00:58:53] Example one the first I mean into the book actually the first stop we went on it was like
[00:58:58] Right we're going on the ground we were on ops and so basically there was a five-key buffers own between
[00:59:03] Serbian Kosovo and they didn't want any sort of any Serbians in there any
[00:59:08] Codzvans in there because that you know that's where it was all kicking off
[00:59:10] So a lot of our work was on the border but there was also those that
[00:59:16] Committed horrific crimes crimes of war as well so we were also identified these HVTs get an imagery from them and then obviously again guys to come in and pick them up
[00:59:26] So we were having a grab no camera kit straight off civilian shell was an awoken in
[00:59:30] We were great the lens and things like that and there
[00:59:33] I remember the first job we went on and we insert we had our our intelligence brief we insert
[00:59:39] And as we'll patrolling you know to the FRV I was a real man and I kept hearing
[00:59:46] Something I'm sorry to that
[00:59:49] Stop the team get down on one knee you know all round the fence and we're all looking for our size
[00:59:55] There's nothing there but you can hear
[00:59:57] Almost like the creep in in the leaves you know someone sneaking up on us
[01:00:02] Anyway, this carried on all the way through we got to the position even when we're in the OP position
[01:00:07] We could hear it
[01:00:09] We got the imagery we needed and about you know two weeks later we we extracted through the field for two weeks
[01:00:15] In the two time you're hearing this noise at night you hear these
[01:00:19] Probbable enemy approaching your position. Yeah, ready for the fight the whole time you're thinking of the worse
[01:00:25] You know you should be there and things that and so when we extracted
[01:00:30] We went back to camp and we have the adebrief and I you know any points and like yeah
[01:00:35] You know well, I don't know where we were compromised. It felt I will compromise but there was a lot of movement
[01:00:40] You know, especially at night and then some some you know
[01:00:44] Call of green slime intelligent core this guy that I did forget to mention it is breathing season for the tour choices
[01:00:52] So actually what we were sitting here in was the torses that coming out to make
[01:00:57] But it kept the whole patrol on stand two for two weeks
[01:00:59] So you guys are doing recon patrols how big of a team's you guys were on out with two in six
[01:01:06] Man team yeah six
[01:01:08] Man team and you're staying for up to two weeks out there. Yeah, we did four weeks once
[01:01:13] Yeah, we we got to
[01:01:16] Basically we've got an in report in that there was a
[01:01:19] A training camp in the in the 5k buffers under Serbian's basically said you deal with them
[01:01:24] Or we'll do them and so we insert it remember and you know snow on the ground as well
[01:01:29] And because we were out it trained we were the best guys, you know for the job
[01:01:33] So we inserted did our tents and we're in observation
[01:01:37] OPs for four weeks and
[01:01:40] Just feeding back all the intelligence and then they were it was a military training school
[01:01:44] They were doing happy heavy weapons training small arms training. It was quite well disciplined
[01:01:49] And we'll actually then relieve by the Americans Americans you know came in and took over from us for four weeks later
[01:01:56] And I think subsequently from that SF did go in and actually take down
[01:02:01] Take down the uh that's training camp, but
[01:02:04] For me yeah for weeks in the snow
[01:02:07] You know it separates the boys from the men
[01:02:10] What is the up tempo like when you'd get back out how often would how much downtime which is getting then you'd roll back out
[01:02:15] Now we'd be rolling you know we'd we'd obviously deserve some research
[01:02:19] It was it is everything from urban to rural you know we were doing stuff as well in in in vehicles
[01:02:25] We had snipers in in in the tall buildings in the middle of Pristina
[01:02:29] So the jobs that rains from that to
[01:02:32] You know we did get into about one of one of the local government guys is going to be assassination attempt on him
[01:02:38] So obviously I haven't keep an eye on him all the time as well and a member actually
[01:02:41] Seeing two guys and we we got out we're in civil in a tire and we walked up to walking up towards him
[01:02:48] Could we see the bit the guys that we knew we're gonna take him down and they caught our eye and they caught there
[01:02:54] And they just went the other way in actually it was a dry rehearsal
[01:02:56] We just compromised a dry rehearsal they weren't doing it then which obviously kept him alive from for another mum
[01:03:02] Fervent he did get assassination eight after we left
[01:03:06] So you had to be
[01:03:08] How old are you right at this point?
[01:03:10] And not in I'm 22 yeah, so you're just all kind to fire it up for this is living the dream. Oh, yeah, is everything everything you dream about and read about yeah
[01:03:18] Doing it for real
[01:03:21] You you go through this
[01:03:23] This year in the book as you close out this chapter we were just about to head home from coast of Owen we were fastballed onto a task
[01:03:29] We're going to apprehend a bomb maker we were told and
[01:03:32] The adrenaline began to buzz in my veins sitting through the intel brief
[01:03:36] We learned that someone had been cooking up bombs that were being used to take out politicians the bomb maker wasn't the one using them
[01:03:42] He was more like a chef for hire
[01:03:45] Understandably NATO were keen to get him off the streets. I wasn't the one to grab him
[01:03:51] But a couple of the other guys bundled him into the back of our vehicles of our vehicle
[01:03:56] His hands were tied behind his back and despite our orders to keep his eyes on the floor he kept looking up and around him
[01:04:02] I put a hand on the back of his head
[01:04:04] to help his concentration
[01:04:06] That's bang out of order the man shouted in a sharp
[01:04:10] Manchuni in accent as I've ever heard so that's a Manchester accent. My jaw dropped and I looked around with the other guys in the team
[01:04:18] Not for one moment had we suspected that the bomb maker could be a fellow countryman
[01:04:22] When we dropped him off for questioning I bet he wished he'd stayed at home
[01:04:26] There was a solitary chair in the center of a courtyard with two bright spot lights shining onto it
[01:04:32] Very James Bond we left the bomb maker to answer first crimes. It was time for us to go home
[01:04:40] She gets were running so those are those are great ops, you know great ops getting bad guys
[01:04:45] Who'd you turn them over to who's gonna interrogate him?
[01:04:47] I'm I think it was our intelligence services. Yeah, relative we gentle then
[01:04:52] So then this is the point where you get the offer to or the selected once again to go be an instructor
[01:05:03] That's it. Yeah, I have limestone in my center right limestone. Yeah, limestone
[01:05:07] So you go to limestone to to being instructor of that commando course which you
[01:05:14] Which you'd gone through and the one that you said everyone got fired. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yes, and so how was that?
[01:05:21] Yeah, great. Oh, it's his great privilege to go back. So so what we used to do with five nine
[01:05:26] Recky troop each each troop within five nine had to have a guy who did guard duties and
[01:05:32] Think that's so we were exempt from guard duties and from that we would send an instructor on the commander course for years
[01:05:38] So you're actually it was again. It was class as opposed in out unit, but you're you were still attached
[01:05:44] So again when I talk about being an ambassador and ambassador now for the cat badge
[01:05:48] And this is only about four years after me doing my own course. So I always remember my course thinking well, you know
[01:05:54] When we were on our course we had to build up the instructors tense. You know we were doing a lot for them when I got there with night and day
[01:06:01] Now we did our own tense
[01:06:03] But instruction had changed completely
[01:06:06] They
[01:06:07] We were doing everything that the students were doing. We were wearing the same equipment rooms
[01:06:11] We didn't have any you know Gucci kit as well
[01:06:13] We were wearing exactly what they they had and because you were you were as an ambassador
[01:06:19] You obviously had to
[01:06:20] Be seen to be doing what they were doing which I thought was a great way of teaching don't ask at them if you can't do it yourself
[01:06:27] And so yeah, it was night night and day
[01:06:30] The we had a couple of instructors on the course and you know I soon learned how you can get the most out of of your students
[01:06:37] I know when I was on my course
[01:06:39] You know
[01:06:40] I didn't learn anything and I always remember that I thought well
[01:06:43] I don't want this to happen to these young boys, you know, I want them to be in a good position when they go to their unit because you're gonna go back to five nine
[01:06:50] And you're gonna be serving alongside these guys as well
[01:06:53] But we had a couple of instructors and they would just come out every morning just screaming shout
[01:06:57] You know, I mean, I think the the marine instructors they felt they
[01:07:01] They had a bad bad deal going on the all arms commander course
[01:07:05] But in fact actually
[01:07:07] They enjoyed it they really opened their eyes to how good these guys were at soldier
[01:07:11] You know the marines because it's nine months long. They're so
[01:07:15] Proud of their tradition and they see these are you know
[01:07:18] Jeremy guys coming in and doing 10 weeks
[01:07:20] But they don't realize what they've done before they've got there
[01:07:25] But these guys were come out and screaming shout and they mean and you can see these students eyes
[01:07:29] It's almost like straight into press up position and you know they got nothing back
[01:07:34] Whereas for me
[01:07:35] It was all about the banter it's about a humor
[01:07:37] You need to have a sense of humor and be approachable so if I had to tell them to do press ups
[01:07:44] I would do the press ups with a member also there was a law that we could only do 30 press ups
[01:07:49] Really a war yeah
[01:07:51] Within limestone yeah, they start introducing and max you can do it 30 press ups
[01:07:55] But there's ways you can get around that you know good
[01:07:57] You can do a press up you can do a half press up you can hold it for a few seconds
[01:08:01] Then fully down you know, so we we did that I mean there's ways it weighs around it
[01:08:05] But for them as as students you know
[01:08:08] I was seeing a better product at the end and probably what they did of me
[01:08:12] Four years before so I did like I did like that change
[01:08:16] Do you feel like you were able like I was very lucky because I was gotten new instructor roles and they were able to teach
[01:08:22] I taught everything it was awesome
[01:08:24] I felt like I learned a lot while I was teaching because now you're observing I mean from a leadership perspective
[01:08:29] You know us when I was at E5 so I was like a young junior guy I was teaching
[01:08:34] The young officers that were going through our basic was called seal tactical training at the time
[01:08:40] So I'm out there telling them how to run immediate action drills and tell them like hey
[01:08:43] No one's listening to you you need to step back and you take a look around
[01:08:46] I learned so much from doing that did you feel like you in this instructor mode got to learn
[01:08:51] Yeah, I got to learn it learn a lot myself
[01:08:53] Yeah, and like I said we was cool it should get pedestal we used to have to always do the demonstrations before the students
[01:08:58] So it's like do not mess this up
[01:09:00] So our drills had to be had to be slick and quick, but on my first course we had the first female
[01:09:08] Candidate to do the all arms command of course
[01:09:10] Yes, in the book you call it we'll tell it why
[01:09:13] Lieutenant why yeah, yeah, we had to be a protector name
[01:09:17] Legal reasons but she'd done two
[01:09:19] She had two previous attempts and this was her third attempt and so the instructors who took on her initial two
[01:09:27] Courses were dismissed from the training team and we had another training team saw come in so you can already see it's gonna be it's getting
[01:09:35] Steered that way
[01:09:36] Who basically
[01:09:38] What it was is they wanted a female to pass the command of course and people don't realize it's actually
[01:09:44] Basically if a female hadn't passed the command of course
[01:09:47] They were gonna lower the standards until a female pass, but that would be standard throughout male and female
[01:09:52] So the fact that she went on in past we didn't load a standard so people don't see see the bigger the bigger picture
[01:10:01] Behind the scenes so so when you talk about her in the book she didn't pass
[01:10:06] He's not that she didn't pass. There was two ladies on the course. There was Lieutenant why and I'll say left in a next
[01:10:12] Lieutenant X was a
[01:10:14] Doctor who's actually from five nine and
[01:10:16] She did everything that was asked of her you know
[01:10:19] She she struggled and things that were as Lieutenant why was almost playing the system
[01:10:24] She knew that if she could go to the doctor she will get two days
[01:10:28] Like duties
[01:10:29] But the way the timings of that used to always before the command of test she'd rest up for a couple of days before the command of test
[01:10:36] And it was that it wasn't the fact she did in it's the fact that she played to system well
[01:10:41] Lieutenant X, you know she remember one of the guys
[01:10:44] Daz who went on to be chief and start to the sniper school. We were doing some close-quar CQB and
[01:10:53] You know you'd followed the student through and then at the end you'd you'd give her debrief and he's like it comes through with a student
[01:10:59] You said I got it brilliant
[01:11:01] And then mediums that chat and then as we looked over it was like a scene from a shampoo
[01:11:05] Advice you took her helmet off and just rushed ahead
[01:11:08] And we're both who's are I'd you always hit the floor and there's that I said well if she was good
[01:11:13] You tell her you know tell it as you was good and he did yeah your accident but unfortunately
[01:11:18] Week five you do your your bottom field test was like a an assault course and you have to climb a 30 foot rope and she was about a foot and a half
[01:11:26] Just below that rope so she didn't progress on that course, but I do think you know if she had
[01:11:32] Non-in-instructed with any quams
[01:11:33] Was that Lieutenant X or Lieutenant Y?
[01:11:35] Lieutenant X okay, yeah, and but you're saying eventually she did make it through
[01:11:40] Lieutenant Lieutenant Y she she made it through on that course. She made it through on that on that course and
[01:11:46] It was almost to just
[01:11:48] Damping the white noise, you know white white hole that we need a female pass we need a female to pass
[01:11:53] But you can imagine what the airborne lads were like you know, I mean it was like oh my god
[01:11:56] You know you used to get phone calls my wife some paternity leave for ten weeks
[01:11:59] Come down to do your course
[01:12:02] Yeah
[01:12:04] Good banner
[01:12:05] You also talked about a guy that was what 50 something years old?
[01:12:09] Yeah, just a beast yeah, so you know even when you know Lieutenant Y passed I was getting blue
[01:12:14] He's from the lads there in afghan in like yeah well done, you know, he knows like you know and lads some
[01:12:19] Special forces don't even bother coming on selection it's like a big thing a female passing but to be honest, you know
[01:12:25] She deserved to pass and I I generally believe that if deserved pass you know you weren't the right and
[01:12:30] So yeah the next course this gentleman turns up Captain Fox and he's basically gonna be the family officer
[01:12:37] Two nine commando this guy's 55 years old and
[01:12:41] He did pee company four years before I was born the airborne in a minute
[01:12:45] So we're there on parade and the first thing we do is we do a
[01:12:50] I think we do a six mile booted march and it was spring and we came back and it light
[01:12:56] You just thrown two buckets of water over this guy and I was at I said you're right
[01:13:00] You know Captain 40 so it goes on. Yeah, I've had pneumonia
[01:13:04] You know 15 years ago so I can't control my my sweat so that's all my god. This guy's gonna die of me
[01:13:09] But this guy basically he had like four wheel records. He was an ultra marathon run. He had I don't know what it was called
[01:13:15] But basically has to keep moving has to be physically active
[01:13:19] But this guy was was always called I remember when you know teaching the students students messed up and
[01:13:24] You know, so I had him on beasty know up and down this this hill
[01:13:28] I remember him coming down every time he come to me getting the press up position
[01:13:31] I just to feel really embarrassed like talking in my granddad
[01:13:34] He's pleased I knocked Captain Fox. I said what is it?
[01:13:37] So can I take my warm kit off now?
[01:13:38] That god does that yeah, yeah, please do but you know
[01:13:42] Really humbling being with him, but I remember
[01:13:45] He was in my group and he's we were doing the 30 mileer next week
[01:13:48] You know it's the commando test and the final test is a 30 mile and endurance match in in eight hours and at the end you get
[01:13:54] You cut a green beret
[01:13:56] He said it's a cool story
[01:13:57] So the so a grid reference to the finished point and the finished point actually is a public car park on on on
[01:14:03] Dartmouth
[01:14:04] I say yeah, you shouldn't know it, but this is it
[01:14:07] Fine, so when it came to the 30 mileer
[01:14:09] You bring him up and so he wanted to know that did he clarify why he wanted that?
[01:14:14] It's because he wanted his wife or whatever
[01:14:16] Yeah, he wanted his girlfriend to come along say oh my girlfriend wants to meet me the end do mine
[01:14:20] No, so yeah fine
[01:14:21] So we came over cut the old man's slap. Yeah, yeah, yeah, most of the bruiser
[01:14:25] I was older dude say get right on thank you. Yeah, I just said so much respect
[01:14:29] room in fact he'd the peak company four years old born so um
[01:14:33] So I said yeah of course and then we did the 30 mileer and um on the last phase you bring him up a hill
[01:14:38] Coop is hill that you've come bring him in and when you stop him short
[01:14:42] Of the end and you get him to sort of themselves out they put their their cap come through on and you know and we marched them in
[01:14:49] And so I was doing that and as we came down the corner oh
[01:14:52] It was like the Super Bowl. It was
[01:14:56] Balloons how is that to my say I thought it was just your girlfriend. So yeah my grandkids
[01:15:04] I think this is a good section you had in here just on on you you touched on it
[01:15:09] But just the the attitude of being an instructor you say I think a lot of NCOs came into their positions on courses and
[01:15:14] And at units thinking that being shouting shouting and swearing was the way to behave because that's how it had been for them and perhaps they thought
[01:15:22] It made them feared personally. I didn't want to scare people and to learn it
[01:15:26] If they didn't want to be there they'd end up failing themselves without me shouting and screaming
[01:15:30] I found it far more effective to use room humor and to be quiet at times when others would shout
[01:15:36] Using that old old parent's line of I'm not angry. I'm just disappointed just a look would be enough
[01:15:41] They wanted the approval of those already wearing the green lid
[01:15:45] And so if they saw that they had failed you they doubled their efforts on the next task
[01:15:51] No need for shouting or swearing when you fill
[01:15:54] Avoid with swearing it looks rightly or wrongly like it's down the lack of intelligence or to anger issues
[01:16:00] Instructors were being assessed by their students just as much as the other way around
[01:16:05] I always decided early on that I would have that I would share in any punishment that I handed out
[01:16:09] If I gave them press ups then I'd get down to the mud and do them too not only did that earn their respect
[01:16:14] But it gave them no excuse in their minds to feel hard done by at the end of the course
[01:16:19] Those that earned the coveted berets would be serving alongside me
[01:16:23] That's what I wanted to treat them as my equals even if I was in a position of authority
[01:16:29] Especially if I was in a position of authority we need each other and that's the same
[01:16:33] Whether you're on a training exercise in combat or attempting a world record
[01:16:37] No person is an island
[01:16:41] Yeah, good a great attitude that I think a lot of people
[01:16:47] Could use you know from a leader's not just instructor but from just a leadership perspective
[01:16:52] You know that you think maybe you need to yell to get someone's respect no it doesn't you actually lose respect when you act like that
[01:17:01] You get done with that
[01:17:03] And now you go to see the careers management officer and
[01:17:09] He's asking you about what you want to do next now. Did he did he chime in about selection?
[01:17:14] Did you see the one that brought up?
[01:17:17] You possibly go on a selection or did you already have it in your mind? I had it in my mind so he pulled me in so the whole period of time now
[01:17:24] I'm joining five nine to where I was now. I was now a sergeant. I'd spent eight years in five nine and
[01:17:30] And that's purely because of the wreckage group the all arms command of course
[01:17:34] So normally in in the military you spend three years and then you move on to another unit
[01:17:38] You know you progress in your career so to have eight years there and seven an enemy with brigade wreckage is unheard of
[01:17:44] So I basically had to move on so I'd put my paperwork in for the pathfinders
[01:17:49] Which was the brigade wreckage for the airborne unit and
[01:17:53] We each year we have a confidential report and my report was excellent and he pulled me in
[01:17:58] It's it can you not see the wood through the trees because you need to go
[01:18:02] to then come back as the the wreckage group staff sergeant going
[01:18:07] You know pathfinders isn't the way
[01:18:09] So you're probably like yeah, give me a bit the roll of it
[01:18:12] But that afternoon actually
[01:18:14] I got a phone call from Glasgow Glasgow runs all our man in and records. They tell you where you're getting posted and things like that
[01:18:22] And so the engineered raw engineered divers we also have raw navy search divers
[01:18:27] There've been a few deaths recently in the raw navy divers
[01:18:31] And just purely because they're not full-time divers in those you know lack of
[01:18:36] Not a kid lack of a protocol
[01:18:38] Yeah, yeah, protocol training so it's unfortunately been a couple of deaths
[01:18:42] But then HSE had now started creeping into diving
[01:18:45] You know when I said earlier that there's no no voice calms and things like that now you can't dive unless you've got two way
[01:18:52] Visual camera and voice calms HSE was really creeping into my thoughts
[01:18:55] Wait, what's HSE health and safety exact okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the big the big banners
[01:19:01] So they'd introduce the new dive equipment called the Sabre Mod 1 and and that so it didn't disrupt the other diving courses
[01:19:10] They introduced another dive team to come in and train all the current divers within the engine is
[01:19:16] So I just passed my army diving supervisors and got top student so you know that that same day to sound majors
[01:19:22] I haven't been a rocket. I then get posted to the dive school so it was out of both our hands
[01:19:28] So I went down as the senior dive instructor
[01:19:33] And then you're down there as the senior driving instructor and it sounds like you guys are basically just
[01:19:38] Partying a lot because in the block. I mean you guys are divers, but you kind of it's plenty of training people that are already divers, right?
[01:19:46] Yeah, yeah, and you're just training them on a new piece of gear
[01:19:48] That's it. Yeah, they're already qualified divers, but for them they're going to port Smith
[01:19:53] It's like probably coming to San Diego, you know, you've got two weeks in the gas lamp
[01:19:56] You know if it is guys, they're saving up their money. So ready to rock and roll
[01:20:00] Yeah, but every two weeks you get another
[01:20:02] Another course of qualified divers. So for them is it is a holiday they knew that they knew they were passing there
[01:20:08] Just going through the procedures. So they're on holiday and they're dragging you on hop
[01:20:12] You coming out and you know, I was a single guy's out of course and at one point at what point did you
[01:20:18] Realize did you decide you're going to go selection so a couple of months have gone
[01:20:23] SAS and we met up about three months later and
[01:20:28] You know really open my eyes and I you know
[01:20:31] I like to pay hard and they're like you're not even drunk and and I said
[01:20:37] Ah, yeah, I'm going to go on selection and it was like one in the back of I know you weren't
[01:20:41] I said yeah, well, so that Monday I just stopped drinking and then I train
[01:20:45] And I went on I had an attempt at selection before that a couple years before not a long after
[01:20:52] Dole Armstrong's command of course and my knee blew out on the hill
[01:20:55] How deep into selection were you on that first time when you got blown out me women the aptitude phase the first four weeks
[01:21:00] On the hill train so I tore my a tore my lateral miniscus, but my training for that selection
[01:21:07] I was up and down the north Devon coastal path and a carrying weight
[01:21:10] I was just pounding and pounding and knee
[01:21:12] So for me, I didn't want to have that same approach with this attempt also I was running
[01:21:18] Dive courses at the time so you anytime I had
[01:21:20] You know off was the evening so I spent two hours on on these spin bikes
[01:21:24] You know these spin bikes. That's beyond a spinner for two hours each night for six weeks
[01:21:30] How was
[01:21:31] When you when you got dropped from selection the first time around like you kind of make it like it's no big deal
[01:21:37] I only know from my experience
[01:21:39] It's a when you if people don't make it through like a basic seal training
[01:21:45] It's it's it's horrible because you're gonna be in the regular navy and that's not what you're doing the navy to do and all of a sudden you're doing this other thing
[01:21:53] Or you're doing like a regular navy job and that's not good and I can't even fathom like my mindset
[01:22:00] If I wouldn't have made it
[01:22:02] But it seems like it's a little easier on
[01:22:04] Someone that's you know you're sure you were you at five nine
[01:22:07] So I was in a rocky trip at the time. Yeah, so you're in wrecky trips. You're like okay. I didn't get through it this time
[01:22:11] And I still have an awesome job so maybe it wasn't quite as
[01:22:15] Psychologically devastating. Yeah, well, we we you get two attempts at selection you see
[01:22:19] So I knew I had another Terry wasn't the bill be all or end all but I learned a lot from that
[01:22:24] And it was it was the approach to training you know a lot
[01:22:28] You know we have the first four weeks which we'll talk about soon on selection
[01:22:30] Which is the aptitude phase, which is the Hills phase
[01:22:33] Which is the physical
[01:22:34] Once you're at once you pass that is it's when the soldier then comes in and I sort of knew
[01:22:39] I just need to get past that first four weeks because soldier and why is now it's been
[01:22:44] Years in wrecky trip you know I was on your alarm's team and I was quite current
[01:22:48] So when I approached did it the second time like I said I was on the spinner bike for two weeks
[01:22:52] So it was low impact and
[01:22:55] Actually, we do a run in the UK managed called BFT the basic fitness test. It's a run for a mile and a half
[01:23:02] And I got my fastest run at the age of 28. I did like seven minutes ten seconds
[01:23:07] So I fought right you know the fitness fitness fitness is up up there
[01:23:12] So I then went on selection I decided to
[01:23:18] To go SBS I went
[01:23:20] Did the do if in called a briefing course because there's two attempts at selection days of old guys
[01:23:27] You know if you went from the Marines and Paris guys we go on selection and get caught out
[01:23:31] They'll get a bit culture shock. They didn't realize actually what was involved and what train and
[01:23:36] And preparation you need to do so rather than wasting one life than coming back and potentially getting injured
[01:23:42] Both units and introduced a thing called a briefing course which you can have as many tempts as you want
[01:23:47] And it's a one-week course and basically it's like an absolute it gives you an insight of what where you are fitness wise
[01:23:53] Education wise did you get to do that the first
[01:23:55] The attempt that you do that you have it yet. They didn't have that yet so you had wasted one life so I'd wasted one life
[01:24:01] Yeah, so I went and did the SES briefing course for a week
[01:24:03] I've ended the following week. I went and did the SPS one because I still wanted to
[01:24:07] One and one and make my decision
[01:24:09] But obviously a lot of more my friends are in the SES
[01:24:12] I sort of knew all them and you know sort of the way that they operate and then I went down to Paul in door
[01:24:17] So on our South Coast and then and the guys are there you know they've got frog shores t-shirts
[01:24:22] You've got you know reefs and all the nook of that. Yeah, this and me
[01:24:25] This is where this is where I belong
[01:24:28] So I did both and then you have to make the decision before you gone selection so I said right
[01:24:32] I'm going and that was a new
[01:24:35] Thing before if you were near me you're going the SES if you were in the Marines
[01:24:39] All right, yes, but they take regular Navy dudes into the SPS
[01:24:42] There's only ever been one Navy guy pass although it's the Navel special forces only only one Navy guys pass it up until then it's 100%
[01:24:51] raw Marines
[01:24:52] So normally you or in the past you would have been SAS 100% not even a choice that's you're in the army
[01:24:59] You're going to the SES and at some point during the joint
[01:25:02] Environment of hey we all need to work together. Yeah, they said pick which one you want to go to
[01:25:07] You saw the you saw the you saw pool you saw flip flops
[01:25:13] surf shorts and Oakley's and said I'm I'm heading there. Yeah, that was it the so what it was was the Marines
[01:25:21] Could go to the SES so the Marine the SPS were losing candidates to the SES because not everyone likes diving to see
[01:25:29] Oh, yeah, and some guys have airfields. Yes, as well. It means they can't go underwater so they'll lose in
[01:25:35] Students that that and so they decide to then open up try service that navy the army the RAF can come and
[01:25:42] They're just literally just done that so for me having spent eight years in free command of brigade
[01:25:48] Having the green beret anyway and being the sea indict. It was just seen the natural
[01:25:52] Transition at the perfect transition for me, but in my head I thought well if I go SES
[01:25:57] You know because I'm seeing your diving structure. I'm going to have been boat troop
[01:26:01] If I go SPS these guys are all divers so you know I'm level playing field and that was where my mindset was
[01:26:08] And so yeah, I did it much to the disgust of my friend
[01:26:11] The SES still like what you do it and because it's especially like wreckage it we had a hundred percent pass rate and it was like
[01:26:17] You know if this guy goes then you know people are gonna look at those options
[01:26:22] You know UK special forces 40 percent
[01:26:24] The UK special forces made up of the rule Marines. That's because they were all in the SPS
[01:26:31] You you had to explain this a lot here's the here's the book
[01:26:36] Talking to your instructors why the fuck do you want to go to pool?
[01:26:39] One of the DS is asked me the special forces selection encompassed all those who want to go to SES and SPS
[01:26:44] So with the exact same training you're gonna go through the exact same training the exact same selection course
[01:26:48] I should say I knew I shouldn't give them a real answer
[01:26:52] I didn't want to go to boat troop and hairford and I like the way the SPS guys
[01:26:57] Cut about in t-shirts shorts and oak leaves as a surfer that appealed to me and pool would certainly put me closer to the surf spots of
[01:27:05] Devon and cornwall. I love diving staff
[01:27:08] Shit answer who likes diving the DS snorted picking up a rock put that in your kit and you better fucking have it when we're it when we get to the end of the day
[01:27:16] I had it with me every day each morning the DS would ask me the same question and each day
[01:27:22] I'd be told to put a rock into my already heavy burden
[01:27:26] Then one day I had an idea my chances of being the gray man were long gone and so I decided to deploy a bit of humor
[01:27:33] Back in the camp that evening. I got busy and in the morning. I was prepared one of two of the
[01:27:37] DS walked over to me. They were both from hairford and both had been at five nine
[01:27:42] They had a keen eye for horrible rocks. Oh, are you? Why the fuck you want to go to pool?
[01:27:47] I placed my weapon down across my boots so it was out of the dirt and opened up the one of the map
[01:27:52] Pockets in my trousers pulling out a laminated photo. What the fuck is this one of them sneered?
[01:27:58] It was a full it was a photo of born mouth my saying that right boom the born with
[01:28:02] Born mouth got him an American. There's a photo of born myth
[01:28:07] Beach during a heat wave. I'd pulled it off a Google and laminated it in the office
[01:28:13] You don't get topless girls on the beach and hairford staff
[01:28:16] I told them with a straight face and both men burst out laughing
[01:28:21] I kept the photo in my pocket for the rest of the course and didn't carry another rock
[01:28:27] Actually one of the main reasons why I'd you well I grew up surfing too
[01:28:31] in in cold the cold water of New England and
[01:28:35] I was looking at you know when I was trying to figure out what I wanted to go into and one of the things that
[01:28:40] was
[01:28:41] Seems like a really good deal was either being stationed in Virginia Beach which is good waves on the east coast and or San Diego
[01:28:48] Which is San Diego and
[01:28:50] Either that you know, are you going to for betting or for Lewis or you just there's some other places to get station
[01:28:56] so that definitely
[01:28:57] helped
[01:28:58] Guide me in the right direction. I didn't know any seals at the time. Otherwise I would have seen
[01:29:04] Sandals shorts
[01:29:06] Oh, please and that probably would have steered me even more in that direction
[01:29:11] Continue on here despite the rocks. I did really well on the hills the training on the spin bike worked out my joints felt fresh
[01:29:17] On my last basic fitness test the dives go I even ran my fastest time ever 28 years old avoiding injury on the hills
[01:29:23] It's key. There's no time for recovery. If you get hurt you're done. That's that and so as pleased
[01:29:28] That I'd learnt the lessons of my first attempt at selection and adapted my plan accordingly
[01:29:32] Yeah, my buddy John W. He's a
[01:29:35] Bow Hunter and like he's he spends a bunch of time on the stationary bike getting ready for hunting season and I was
[01:29:43] Like I just put on a rock and walk because I'm maybe not as smart
[01:29:48] But yeah, it seems like that's a seems like that works
[01:29:51] Yeah, I think obviously you can have the impact anyway, you know for me when I did the first selection
[01:29:56] You know I've got quite big hill legs so actually
[01:29:59] I send in hills was not a problem where you need to be making up your time is on the
[01:30:03] On the downhill is in on the streets and you know and that's where I need needed to improve
[01:30:07] So that's why I introduced the spin bike because I didn't want to
[01:30:11] Inflame that injury again. I didn't want to you know put starting it in a bad position
[01:30:14] So I just looked at what worked and what didn't you know I knew I was struck
[01:30:18] I had the strength
[01:30:20] You know for the in my legs
[01:30:21] I just didn't have the speed and how was I going to be able to improve on that and that's where the spin and bite was was put as perfect for it
[01:30:27] But the our our aptitude our first four weeks is you know it's
[01:30:31] 20 to 30 kilometers you know up to 70 pounds
[01:30:36] You have then then have like the test week and they say you know needs be moving at 4k an hour which things
[01:30:42] That's fine, but that says the crow flies looking at map so if you got mountains in in the way
[01:30:46] You need to get over that mountain so you need to really be moving about 5 to 6k an hour
[01:30:52] Because if you have then have any issues navigational wise
[01:30:54] You know you've got some fudge and you're not scraping in but
[01:30:58] Groundhog day for four weeks doing that on the brekk and beacons in wells is uh and you don't know
[01:31:05] There's no like cut off time. They just tell you to go and get a gun as quick as you can
[01:31:09] That's it. Yeah, you basically get to your your your start point in no the DS will give you your grid reference
[01:31:14] You then step aside workout
[01:31:17] No, which direction you're going tell him in times speed distance and you're sort of working on your your 4k an hour
[01:31:23] How long it's gonna take you and then you go and then you get to the next checkpoint
[01:31:27] Which is the top of the hill where is always meet the DS telling me to pick up a rock and then
[01:31:31] It will just give it a next one and you just keep going until you get to to the finish point
[01:31:35] And they also have a couple of little games in there as well. Wait if you think you finish for the day and allow
[01:31:40] Right your next checkpoint and then you you know you go you start going and then cool a couple of guys out
[01:31:46] They were not they've done and didn't realize actually it was just the test
[01:31:51] You just have to have the
[01:31:53] Self discipline in a self-movey
[01:31:55] Yeah, no you wrote that you wrote about that in the book how they'd come up you think you're done
[01:31:59] You've been walking for what 12 hours 14 hours or whatever it is
[01:32:03] 19th day in a row yeah, you come up to the to the drill sergeant and you say
[01:32:11] You know have checking in and he's like here's your next point
[01:32:14] And guys would say I'm done and they'd quit yeah
[01:32:18] And then someone else would come up and say they'd say here's your next point
[01:32:21] They'd start walking say they're just kidding come back and then that guy would realize that they just quit for no reason
[01:32:26] Yeah, I think it was on ours. It was a lot of the the paralleled so a lot of the parachute regimen
[01:32:30] Lads would go as drivers to drive the vehicles on the selections before so they knew the start of
[01:32:36] Vengeance's points and it was actually to catch them out because they're in their head they're right
[01:32:40] Right I've just got 30 kilometers. I've just got 30 kilometers and so the built themselves up and when they get to that point
[01:32:46] They think it's finished and then when you throw a little curve ball in there to let they weren't expecting it
[01:32:50] Um
[01:32:51] But then yeah, I've been test week, you know
[01:32:54] It's called the aptitude fate, but test week itself you then have five marches and if you don't come in
[01:32:59] On the times, you know you get you get red card you get two red cards
[01:33:03] You're done. I think the first three march is about
[01:33:06] 30 kilometers
[01:33:07] fourth march is
[01:33:09] 35 kilometers, but then you have four hours rest and then that evening you do 40 miles
[01:33:14] Which 70 pounds it's called endurance and you have to do that within 20 hours
[01:33:18] It's called other things because it's like
[01:33:22] Yeah, so um, but you finish that and you think brilliant, you know
[01:33:25] I've just passed the hills for it. It's quite a big thing but finished structures. They call aptitude
[01:33:30] They don't even call you by your name
[01:33:31] They don't even know who you are at this point is like and you probably lost 50% of the course at this point
[01:33:37] I've evolved entry with draw injury
[01:33:40] Or actually just not me yeah the grandiary levels got to be high. Yeah, because that's a beat down on your joints
[01:33:46] I mean what would happen to you the first time yeah, it's exactly I mean obviously
[01:33:50] Like I I broke my ankle as a young boy so my so my nemesis in the military was my my left ankle
[01:33:56] And so it would go well we can edit that out. We don't want everyone to know his weakness
[01:34:02] So for me though, I knew that and I would tape you know I'd tape my ankles up and things that and I'm
[01:34:06] member on test week
[01:34:07] Um
[01:34:08] Had these these military boots lowers had great ankle support because you know because lads were were failed
[01:34:15] They were leaving so in the evening you put your boots in the dry and room and I'm
[01:34:18] Mimma going in the next day and I'm that they look a bit small and
[01:34:22] One of the guys you'd left to take in my boots
[01:34:26] I still had about three more test matches with these with these almost like jungle boots style boots
[01:34:32] You know running across all these babies heads so uh yeah, but you know you're sort of administering yourself looking after yourself and
[01:34:39] Prevention
[01:34:43] um
[01:34:45] You continue on you get past that that phase and like you say in here like that was just the beginning
[01:34:52] And you know they also say this you had to be totally self motivated
[01:34:55] You either had the mental strength that you didn't unlike P company or command of course
[01:34:58] There were no shelter encouragement from the staff anything the DS did say would be an attempt to undermine your confidence
[01:35:05] Make you second guess yourself
[01:35:07] Yeah
[01:35:08] My preparation for the course helped a lot. I never doubted my decisions
[01:35:10] I knew I'd done the work over the years to be spot on with my mapping compass
[01:35:16] I knew I'd left enough sweat and the gym to have my fitness up to standard
[01:35:20] I'm only human and I'd listen to the DS's cutting criticism
[01:35:24] But then I could calmly say to myself it's just part of the mind games mate you're doing fine
[01:35:28] times like those I think back to when my dad had told me I wouldn't last two minutes in the army
[01:35:32] He'd been wrong and so with the DS
[01:35:36] Yeah, they play they they learn
[01:35:38] What to say to people to get them to quit?
[01:35:41] You know they they say all kinds of things and what you said would you see right there?
[01:35:45] It's just part of the mind games. Yeah, but man they go hard. Yeah, yeah
[01:35:49] I do yeah we we we go to the jungle so once we finish the hills phase we
[01:35:54] We start doing some some
[01:35:56] Infantry skills as well because basically you're learning all over again
[01:36:00] So where are you on marine or parah?
[01:36:01] What the way that they operate in UK sf is totally different and you're introducing new weapon systems
[01:36:06] So the C8 the Marco is only used by UK special forces you haven't a learner whole new weapon system again
[01:36:14] And um yeah, but you know from your friends who've done it before you that they're gonna start playing mind games of you
[01:36:20] And I remember we go to Brunei spend six weeks in the jungle and that's that's a great
[01:36:25] Great part selection you lose a lot of guys there. You know some guys really thrive in the jungle and some guys
[01:36:30] It's almost like
[01:36:32] Closter phoat and you know you just spend a lot of time in there day in there and you hear the helicopter coming in and pick up the lads and you see guys
[01:36:39] It's just you guys randomly packing their bags in our cheetah now that what you're doing is it all well, you know
[01:36:44] I'm gonna fail this instructor said you know that ignored instructor said
[01:36:47] But I remember when it happened to me. I remember we were marching up to a
[01:36:52] Arrange and everything we do on selections life firing we don't do blank everything it is for real
[01:36:57] You know because on a day to race you don't fire blank and it's all about weapon handling that you say
[01:37:03] But you know effective and I remember one instructor's coming straight up to me
[01:37:07] Far again in my face screaming in shower and you said if I see any weapon handling like that again
[01:37:12] Because you'll be off you'll be on the next helicopter and I just said yes stuff
[01:37:16] I didn't get into an argument. I didn't be on the range yet. He didn't be like that. You know I didn't be on the range
[01:37:21] I knew it was my day
[01:37:23] That he was testing me and you could see it as well, you know throughout the course you can see I he's getting it today
[01:37:29] The instructor's been on yet. I mean you you get guys
[01:37:32] You know
[01:37:33] Who don't pass and this it I is could I add a personality clash with the instructor and a lot of them tend to use that
[01:37:39] But what they do on selection is it's just great is actually especially with the final exercise at last 10 days
[01:37:44] They swap your instructor's round
[01:37:46] So if there is you know human beings there's always gonna be person I crush is if there is anything like that
[01:37:50] Sort of you get you get a fair chance so um by enjoy it. I enjoyed the jungle for me
[01:37:58] You know I was going through a court case at the time my ex wife and trying to get custody of my my first daughter and
[01:38:05] And I remember passing and we have a barbecue and
[01:38:10] They always say don't go on selection over any welfare issues. You need to go there fully focused
[01:38:14] You know, so guys guys will get letters from their wives
[01:38:17] You know blue ease and she's having a bad day, you know if she's at home with a fridge or cold or blue
[01:38:22] We blew it you just be like blue blue blue envelopes which are free free post garot
[01:38:28] And you know you write in there and it's purely just military
[01:38:31] So it's known as a blue and you know if your wives have an a bad day and she's got kids and she thinks you're on holiday in Brunei
[01:38:37] You know I mean
[01:38:38] And she's I mean you know plays your mind and guys pull themselves off and then phone their wives
[01:38:44] And I'm actually right now, you know, so they do say just cut off all the white noise
[01:38:50] So when I finish my my chief instructors like because I yeah guys come on air
[01:38:54] We're well fit I said I'm going through a divorce and cut through the amy kid is it really
[01:38:58] As there is any place the solicitor's gonna get letters to me
[01:39:01] And actually mean so for me at the time it was a big escape escape
[01:39:05] Yeah
[01:39:06] Just get more I've got a letter as a great but yeah you come back from that and
[01:39:15] I got the troop sergeant role for the final five days of the final attack and you sort that's almost an
[01:39:21] Indicate that you're doing well and so I sort of a newer I've done well on the course
[01:39:26] But when you come out a jungle you have the barbecue the instructors get together
[01:39:30] They have their little you know final decisions
[01:39:33] But you don't know for another five days when you get back to UK they don't they don't tell you there and then it's like
[01:39:39] So you know
[01:39:40] One of them just came up to be at the barbecue at friend of a friend self African land and drunk totally drunk
[01:39:46] So yeah, you've done my house had but you should come as the S so it's almost like you've been given the nod
[01:39:51] I'm officially and
[01:39:53] So you're telling that's anything given a nod. Yeah, I haven't so lads of self critique
[01:39:57] Over the next five days and and I remember the same DS came up to me next day so
[01:40:03] He said study said did I give you the nod last night? I said now he said did you pass?
[01:40:08] You said I did it. Oh
[01:40:10] Drunk
[01:40:13] I was gonna say that's like psychological of the psychological gains. Hey, it's been nice
[01:40:17] No one you've really made good effort out here
[01:40:19] Yeah, but is that actually the the jungle drums it's quite a big thing selection
[01:40:25] You know those instructors who go back they'll sort of tell things they don't take long before it started
[01:40:29] So I've got a text of my friends what I've seen well done
[01:40:32] I've been a person how does this wife know
[01:40:35] In Devon that I'm a path but even though you're feeling confident you've done it
[01:40:39] You still you're still when you walk in five days later
[01:40:42] It's like you know because occasionally guys are getting the down check because whatever
[01:40:46] Yeah, I said you know did they may have got through the jungle phase, but it may be look
[01:40:51] Not this time but with the jungle you only get one attempt
[01:40:54] Is that that that's your only attempt so yeah, that's a that's quite a big big color work as well
[01:40:59] But once you finish the jungle phase you know that they want you
[01:41:04] You know so the next three months you know unless you're a real you know do a Neil diamond
[01:41:09] Negrine negligent discharge or something like that you should you should be safe
[01:41:14] And what's the last three months? What are you doing for that section?
[01:41:16] So you do continuation train so do see survival evasion resistance extraction
[01:41:21] Running through gray coats around Scottish highlands
[01:41:25] You do your your parachute and your square. You do communications kit
[01:41:30] And then the final phase counterterrorism
[01:41:32] So basically they they get you into a position that when you join your sabers quadrant that you can fit into the team
[01:41:39] But you're that's just your start point within the squadrons, but so it's a six-month process. It's actually quite long drawn out and
[01:41:47] We we basically the SPS and SDS as you touched on is it has joint
[01:41:52] Selection and the accommodations at heraphote with the SDS and you'll see in the guys on the course
[01:41:58] Already been given
[01:41:59] Know what squadron they're going to told what the bloyments are going haven't it go see the quartermaster to get kit and you guys in the SPS or that my god
[01:42:07] You know not getting anything
[01:42:09] So it is quite frustrating that they get their berry and belt and then we used to just get given a blue track
[01:42:14] So you've got then another three months continuation. Oh, it's it continues on it does it is still selection or is it just continuation?
[01:42:23] It's
[01:42:24] Days of old it used to be selection because if you failed the dive course they'd accept you in the SDS
[01:42:30] Another whole thing you know what's the difference in the SDS in the SPS?
[01:42:33] I always say surprisingly I've his soldier slightly better soldier you know sort of joking but um
[01:42:38] Yeah, but but actually they then introduced that we then got we then got our own sort unit recognition
[01:42:45] We got our own cat badge recently and you know we got our own belt because days of old
[01:42:50] You wouldn't know who was SPS because it was a raw marine cat badge. That was it. Yeah, the only indicate was there's is long curly hair
[01:42:56] Um
[01:43:06] You go here and a neat club it may have been in the journey to get there was incredibly difficult
[01:43:11] But all of the other men at the squadron. I now joined it done exactly the same so no one remarked on it
[01:43:17] For me selection had been the most monumental thing in my life, but for these guys it was a tick in the box
[01:43:22] To get me to work
[01:43:24] You the new guy are you?
[01:43:26] All right, simple as that. I'd be the the exactly the same way once I'd spent some time at pool
[01:43:31] And the next cadre of new guys came in but for now I was the new book and I was about to begin one of the most intense periods of my life
[01:43:38] What year is this so this is 2006? Oh, okay, so it's on
[01:43:43] So when what where were you in September 11th happened so September 11th?
[01:43:46] I we were about to go on a
[01:43:48] An ex-cycle saves a rear in Oman was a big big ex-size and remember obviously seeing the twin stars
[01:43:55] You know getting pulled into the cinema watching it and then that
[01:44:00] That afternoon I got a phone call from the the dive school saying that you know there's an army advanced diving course
[01:44:05] Start yesterday. I guess they wanted a guys as failed his his entrance test
[01:44:10] So I'd diving courses and in phase it you have been basic course which is
[01:44:13] Which is six weeks you had advanced courses 10 and you supervises you have to pass each before you progress
[01:44:23] And so I got a phone call to come down to dive school so I was heading down the road and then obviously see the twin towers everyone's going to Oman
[01:44:30] I think oh my god. I'm gonna miss out on this and you know, so I missed the initial
[01:44:35] The initial phases and then I was at limsten on the train in team when the lads lads deployed
[01:44:39] So yeah, I missed out with free command to regate my afghan tour so it's a few men
[01:44:44] Few men so my my first deployment afghan was the yes with the SPS
[01:44:49] You say here
[01:44:51] I totally understand that some people will be disappointed that I can't divulge
[01:44:55] Details of special forces operations but our country has enemies and we can't hand them information that could endanger the lives of my former colleagues
[01:45:02] Who continue to operate around the world?
[01:45:05] Selflessly providing the blanket of freedom beneath which we sleep
[01:45:08] I know you'll appreciate that and in light of what they sacrifice we can sacrifice some stories
[01:45:13] Let me just say that those years gave me some of my best friends and that I love the job
[01:45:19] So this is now you're you're going on deployments with the SPS and
[01:45:26] Obviously we're not gonna go any any any details of them where you guys primarily doing like direct action
[01:45:32] Yeah, so when we I was very fortunate my first you know
[01:45:35] I'd missed that opportunity of free command of a guy so I know I went out with the SPS
[01:45:40] My first our first deployment was the first ever operational jump for the SPS into into helmet
[01:45:45] So that wow my first time in afghan and it's an operational jump at night
[01:45:50] So yeah, we were doing it's called task force 42 tier 42 which was the door kick it but also alongside that
[01:45:58] the intelligent services were also
[01:46:00] Pickin up agents and things that so I was having to work between between both normally the instructor the guys
[01:46:07] We were going at with from our reserves and it all failed the course
[01:46:11] So when I first got there it was literally door kick and ignite and then in the day dressing up as a local
[01:46:17] But for me we then did numerous operational jumps
[01:46:20] We were very fortunate on that so we had the most HVTs and any squudgeon and we had more HVTs
[01:46:26] In first three months and the last three squudgeons back to back
[01:46:31] Because we were just changing the way that that we operated as you know out there
[01:46:35] You had to change you know they all knew your TTPs and you had to change and adapt to that so for me
[01:46:41] I was at the pinnacle, you know I'd missed out that time of free command to regail, but I I made up for it in abundance
[01:46:47] And what's your position or are you like a breacher or you a sniper?
[01:46:51] What's your what's your role?
[01:46:53] Yeah, so actually one thing I forgot to mention so unlike so when I went on selection
[01:46:57] I was a sergeant when you finish selection your rank goes you start again as a trooper
[01:47:02] Yeah, well actually they said I was gonna be a marine. I was that awful as said I said that's fine
[01:47:08] But know that no other army light, especially airborne is gonna come in to esps if you call as marines
[01:47:13] You have to call as troopers so when I went there
[01:47:16] I was almost like the guinea pig
[01:47:17] You know what works what doesn't work and things like that
[01:47:20] So yeah, but then you do you were you literally the first army?
[01:47:24] There was two two other guys with two other guys with me. It was an officer and another engineer light in your selection class
[01:47:31] Yeah, and so you three were the first army soldiers to go into the espings
[01:47:36] There was one before those one before us, but it had first time in in this quadrant
[01:47:41] But from the engineers especially record you've been been in the first and I think now 15%
[01:47:47] Of the esps is now made up of the army so it was almost like the floodgates
[01:47:52] Had opened
[01:47:54] Which I think is good because the Marines as I said they're so proud of you know they're background of things that but you need diversity
[01:47:59] You need diversity in there and that's what the army the army brought in
[01:48:04] Also the fact that at the time the SES
[01:48:07] We're running Iraq and the esps were running afghan so again, you know if you guys want to go on selection
[01:48:12] You know Iraq will start to wind down
[01:48:14] You know guys were looking towards afghan so the esps was a good option there
[01:48:19] Yeah, that's my interaction with well I had two interactions with the with the British
[01:48:26] Special forces in my career one of them was before 9-11 and
[01:48:31] It was very cool and I'll tell you about it later and then the other one was
[01:48:37] It was it was just in in Iraq, you know we were hitting target sets and there was like multiple targets that were all
[01:48:43] Somehow connected and so I just sat down next to the troop commander and we want to talk through the plan and
[01:48:50] Really good guy and obviously just you know when people ask me about the the brits and I've I've worked with other
[01:48:57] British units but all of them what I say about the brits the British are just professionals like just professionals
[01:49:04] The way they behave the way they operate
[01:49:06] It's just always awesome. You know they're gonna be squared away. It's um that was always my impression of of the British
[01:49:11] Special forces and of the British military in general yeah
[01:49:16] Except for one person that I'll tell you also tell you about later
[01:49:18] Which was really strange and he was British Navy so which is strange right because that's the Royal Navy
[01:49:23] That's the rule Navy. Yeah, right we should be just totally squared away. Yeah, well that's probably way to drink and drinking
[01:49:30] Problems
[01:49:31] Yeah, this guy was
[01:49:33] I don't know maybe could have used a beard this particular
[01:49:35] How do you draw so you so I cut you off when you were talking about I'd ask you were you a sniper?
[01:49:41] Yeah, yeah, so when you when you joined
[01:49:44] Depends so we have four troops
[01:49:46] So you have air mounting boom and mobility
[01:49:48] I mean you're going there and as I said when you when you pass a lecture and you think
[01:49:52] I've just done six months
[01:49:53] You know you're at the the baseline you're at a now another baseline and you have to then get all these other skillsets
[01:49:58] So we've in the teams is where there's any gaps so whether it's language
[01:50:02] Demolitions, you know I was I was the forward air controller so my was anything to do with air
[01:50:06] Was meat so I was the FAC within art and then that means you're going every mission. Yeah, exactly
[01:50:12] Yeah, yeah, perfect but then you obviously stacking up on the doors
[01:50:15] You know you would be a point man. You know this guy's out there. We've got books like first man in on the leader
[01:50:20] Well, you're not me. You know the first man in is it is the new boy?
[01:50:24] The section commander or the commander is like number three or four
[01:50:27] So but then obviously when you bounce on to the next door just depend who was there. You know, and that's what we used to do
[01:50:32] You know we didn't really have say right we have to go in this order. You know when we did our training
[01:50:36] It was on unrelenting you know we knew it inside out the drills. It was just second nature
[01:50:42] Very slick so but you were so you're just you guys doing a rolling point doesn't matter who goes in
[01:50:48] But did you did you guys have breacher?
[01:50:51] Did you have a special assignment for that because you were in engineer?
[01:50:53] I figured you can say breacher because we always kind of associate breacher with engineer was that enough?
[01:50:57] Yeah, no it wasn't actually when I when I do yeah, so out there. No, it wasn't because it could their
[01:51:03] Demolitions is slightly different from the role engineer demolitions. I know we will take down a bridge
[01:51:08] Not put a nice little hole in no, no, we'd probably drop the whole compound
[01:51:12] We're getting that interesting
[01:51:14] You'd be too you're in two words explosives, but what they tended to do which I thought was great in the special forces if you already have skill sets
[01:51:20] Is you're very you're already got a skill set. Let's give you another skill set, you know, so you sort of build on it
[01:51:25] So like the pathfinder lads who like the airborne wrecky when they go SDS they're already
[01:51:30] Halo train so there's no point in them going air troop. They've got that skill set put them in boat troop
[01:51:34] You know, so they try and give you as many skillsets as possible
[01:51:39] And then how long would you guys go on deployments for so as is six months six months deployment
[01:51:43] We used to do a two-year sort of rule month so six months pre deployment training six months training
[01:51:49] You then come back and then you're on the green roll so you're on the page or for any sort of any other
[01:51:55] situations around the world I mean six months count at terrorism then so hostage rescue and you know
[01:52:01] Domestic and international and then
[01:52:07] When you like I said I think that's enough broad people can kind of figure out what you were doing
[01:52:13] But how long how many years of this cycle were you on?
[01:52:17] So this cycle this I go every every two years so every two years you beat out for for another six months
[01:52:24] Unless you then you spend four years in your Sabre Squadron and then you you have to move on you then get like an instructional
[01:52:30] Okay, so guys tend to do that and then they then come back in and slot in as in team leaders
[01:52:35] Then go for the whole room on again
[01:52:37] So now we're gonna jump into one particular
[01:52:40] Pred deployment training cycle. I'm going to the book. We were in the desert as part of our pred deployment training
[01:52:47] I couldn't wait to get back out on operations nor could any of the other guys
[01:52:51] Being on ops was the reason we joined the special forces and know where were our skills put to the test more than the daily
[01:52:59] Life or death battles with our enemies
[01:53:02] Going on high altitude high opening training. I loved it jumping jumping
[01:53:07] Some guys didn't and just sucked it up, but I always wanted to be the first in the stick so I could stand on the open tail ramp and look down at the earth
[01:53:15] Beneath me. I wanted to soak it all in before I jumped
[01:53:18] But on the second jump that day I was put in the back of the line
[01:53:22] I waddled with my kit toward the door as the others left the aircraft one guy tumbleed out after the next
[01:53:30] Eventually it was my turn. I jumped
[01:53:33] And immediately I knew that's I was in trouble
[01:53:36] I felt something on my leg. I looked up and saw that it was wrapped in rigging
[01:53:42] I knew that as soon as the static line pulled up the canopy
[01:53:46] That rigging would shoot up above my head and the force of it would take my leg with it
[01:53:52] I had a second to get my leg clear
[01:53:55] Wack
[01:53:56] I failed the static line pulled the shoot the shoot pulled the rigging
[01:54:00] The rigging pulled my leg it came up and over my shoulder like I was a yoga guru
[01:54:07] Instantly I felt every muscle ligament and tendon rip and snap
[01:54:12] I screamed in absolute agony and almost blocked out from the pain the rigging worked its way clear
[01:54:17] And now the leg fell back alongside the other, but I knew that I had no control over its movement
[01:54:22] I was lucky to still have the leg the force could have easily ripped it off and if that happened
[01:54:26] I'd have blooded the death within minutes and some poor local would have had a one-legged corpse landing in his garden
[01:54:32] Pain was racing through my body, but I knew that if I didn't get my act together
[01:54:36] I could still die. I was so far up that axe oxygen was thin and I could not afford to pass out
[01:54:42] I drifted away from my guys if I drifted away from my guys
[01:54:45] I could end up in the middle of the desert or the sea
[01:54:48] It would be browners. I had to stay awake. You'd think that the pain would have made that easy
[01:54:53] But it was so intense that my brain was trying to send me into unconsciousness
[01:54:57] I wouldn't let it. I just wouldn't instead I fixed my focus on the descending parachutes of the stick and followed them in
[01:55:04] It was the longest 30 minutes of my life
[01:55:07] Despite the physical agony I had time had enough time hanging in the sky to feel emotional pain too
[01:55:13] I knew that there would be no deployment for me now
[01:55:16] I think I knew deep down that there would be no more time on operations at all
[01:55:20] 30 minutes is a long time to think about that when you're alone floating through the air
[01:55:25] Finally the ground was getting closer. I saw my mates landing information
[01:55:29] I wanted to make a good landing out of pride, but more than that I knew that if I landed badly
[01:55:34] I could quite well ruin my good leg too
[01:55:38] The ground came up to meet me. I pushed down on my toggles and flared the shoot just at the right moment
[01:55:44] Dragging in enough air under the canvas to take the speed out of my descent
[01:55:48] If you do it too early you just stop in the sky then drop like a sack of shit
[01:55:53] But I came in like a feather and landed on one leg
[01:55:57] There was only one thing left to do
[01:56:01] medic
[01:56:05] What year was that so that was 2000 and 10 so
[01:56:12] Man
[01:56:14] That's it. I mean you're leg. Did you know instantly you were you were done? Yeah, you know it was actually
[01:56:21] The new guys who come to the squadron were getting hayhoe train
[01:56:24] So our sergeant made us that we'd already we're already hayhoe train from previous tours
[01:56:28] He's that we'll go do fun jumps. You know I'd like jumping but there's no such thing as a fun jump in the military
[01:56:33] And
[01:56:35] The reason I got moved I normally am at the front I like to frog
[01:56:38] No, he takes it turn around and he exits the PGI so it's you saw his upset the
[01:56:42] Yeah, the RIF so I then got moved to the back of the stick and like I said we'd done
[01:56:48] Numerous at each jumps just routine but as I exit it got caught in a lines on
[01:56:53] Kick it trying to kick it in time and I couldn't I mean when it got pulled up and over you know
[01:56:58] Probably hear me from the ground screaming
[01:57:01] So but no one else in the team is aware
[01:57:03] That's anything and I've been going on
[01:57:06] But because of those
[01:57:07] Fin out with you or drifting in and out the I was a vomiting because of the pain. I just needed to get I just wanted to get to the ground
[01:57:14] See and re establish what's what's going on
[01:57:18] Assessed the other parachutes their approach you know took another look over the dz and landed it one leg
[01:57:24] It but no straight away. I can put any pressure on it. You know
[01:57:28] Got us got we got a medic medic back to the camp
[01:57:32] Had a MRI scan the next day and there's like yeah, you've torn your ACL or your MCL
[01:57:38] You're lateral meniscose your hamstring your calf you quad so all the supporting muscles as well
[01:57:43] So it's normally with an ACL or MCL you can carry on you see rugby players and just carrying on
[01:57:48] But it was all the support of muscles
[01:57:50] But to add to the issue as well the
[01:57:54] It was the Icelandic volcano which grounded aircraft all over the world so they couldn't get an error mid to me
[01:57:59] So I basically was just thrown into the hotel in Muscat the lads went on to talk from there
[01:58:05] I was putting a hotel for four weeks with painkillers. No sort of deteriorating got back to UK
[01:58:13] After an error med sent home for six weeks
[01:58:17] Back to the hospital and they lost all my paperwork and it was just a spiral of of errors within the military medical system
[01:58:24] How long did it take for you to get through I mean how long did it get surgery and you talk about it in the book
[01:58:29] But how long was that it was 44 weeks in the end you know my when I injured my leg on the first selection process
[01:58:34] It was five days and then I was running again in six weeks until me 44 weeks to get there
[01:58:40] So you know my whole my leg had deteriorated completely and then for me
[01:58:44] I was then
[01:58:45] Transitioning to civilian streets. I wasn't really focused on my my rehab it's like
[01:58:50] What am I gonna do next did you your uh at what point did did you know did somebody say hey
[01:58:56] That's it you you can't be here anymore. Do they offer you medical retirement like what did that process like like
[01:59:01] You'd like to think they'd offer you medical retirement
[01:59:04] But it didn't you know I had to almost threaten them and I needed
[01:59:09] With legal that I needed the operation and when I left
[01:59:13] They pay scale it they put me out and was one below a medical pension and it said you were fixed within 26 weeks
[01:59:20] I was at what else it was 44 weeks
[01:59:22] So five years later I had a tribunal here and against the military and
[01:59:28] What the military tend to do is
[01:59:31] It's basically guys that appeal it they'll say no and you can appeal it again and they'll say no
[01:59:37] That they'll lose eight percent of people doing that so I know a general who said to me
[01:59:41] He said just keep appealing said they won't even open your case until it's deferred appeal
[01:59:47] Which is five years later
[01:59:48] So that's why I did and then I had a tribunal hearing in in Edinburgh and I went down and actually you had a QC in front of you and two doctors
[01:59:56] from the military
[01:59:57] I then brought a military charity called the Royal British Legion and they just sort of
[02:00:02] Ask certain questions which will get you a story out and then you have a representative from the military veterans
[02:00:08] Appeal in you and normally they can be quite
[02:00:11] Aggressive but this guy was actually quite quite relaxed
[02:00:13] But someone did say to me the week before it's a look when you go on this that he go he he had one and he didn't get his medical pension
[02:00:20] He said when you go in there you can't be
[02:00:22] Dean stopped
[02:00:23] Special forces you know these guys say can you walk down the street you say no?
[02:00:27] You know it was one answer so I had that in the back of my mind
[02:00:30] They're I went in and actually they had the timeline that I'd printed out and
[02:00:34] You know I then ended up getting a full
[02:00:37] Full medical pension and then back dated but in the fact that I had to go through it my own yeah
[02:00:43] It's crazy so you like to think you know especially when you feel like you're the top again
[02:00:47] You feel like you're a pop star
[02:00:48] I mean you know tier one special forces and just this all it almost put a
[02:00:53] Cloud over my my career and not my career
[02:00:57] But that my last last year in the military
[02:00:59] It's a bad to at least do the bad taste
[02:01:01] Let me have had taste and I didn't actually realize until I was successful
[02:01:04] How you know what a weight was on my shoulders you know what I felt when I got it
[02:01:09] I felt I've been reciprocated for my time
[02:01:10] You know things and I could almost close that chapter and move on but that was five years after leaving
[02:01:15] How many years then did you how many years were you in total 16?
[02:01:22] So 16 years in and
[02:01:24] So you get what from the day you got injured
[02:01:27] How long did it take before you said all right?
[02:01:29] I need I'm gonna get out because I can't do my job anymore
[02:01:31] So it was over nearly year and I had to extend because I hadn't even been operated on and the military
[02:01:37] Have to return it to civilian street in similar
[02:01:40] Conditional best condition. They were one what you entered and I was nowhere near that so
[02:01:44] So for me my mindset in my heads now thinking well, I'm not I'm not in the militia anymore
[02:01:49] I need to look look beyond that but you still can't progress because you're waiting on on this operation
[02:01:55] So I I got it in the end and then then I finally left in May
[02:01:58] 2011 is when I she got out and then as you're working through this transition
[02:02:06] At some point you get a call
[02:02:08] It's can you be in Libya tomorrow? Yeah, yeah, so to add to the pressure you know
[02:02:15] You know when you know we talk about identity crisis you spent
[02:02:19] All this time in the military working in a tiny net unit, you know
[02:02:23] Knowing what you're doing day out working alongside professionals to like
[02:02:26] Where do I now fit in society? What is my role? What is my purpose?
[02:02:31] So I had that going on in my head. I hadn't really had
[02:02:34] That full transition so guys when they're getting out they have like two year build up
[02:02:38] You know to do all these workshops and these and this set up their companies my was almost
[02:02:42] You know crash bang your you're out the door my wife at this point was eight months pregnant
[02:02:47] You know some like I got it's any workout there, you know what I'm gonna do and we're out of sound like Liam Neeson
[02:02:52] People with our skill sets tends to be the private security industry so this was the middle of the Arab spring
[02:03:00] And get afy was still in triply at this point and in Benghazi a lot of the oil companies the security companies the media
[02:03:07] We're forming up and my friend who was a director one a large security company said
[02:03:13] Dean can you be in Libya and I said yeah course account so I went I went straight in and basically it was a
[02:03:18] It was a difficult project department for an institute development which was the you know at a time with the Prime Minister's little baby
[02:03:25] So they were going to the these sort of countries and you'd have representatives from the the financial sector from the medical and
[02:03:32] You know the military and it's to base the advice and help these these countries get back on their feet
[02:03:39] So they're all preparing for the good afy so I he said can you go in can you help set up the difficult project?
[02:03:45] I'm gonna fly 30 um private security operators in from Iraq and Afghanistan
[02:03:51] So I went in and
[02:03:53] Straight away I could see there was no threat you know the Libions
[02:03:57] We were very hospitable but it also were quite adamant that they didn't want this being an other afghanistan
[02:04:03] In Iraq you know one's get afied for and they wanted to take control of their country
[02:04:07] They didn't want in a private security
[02:04:10] So we had these MP7s these weapons and these guys came in two days later from this hook
[02:04:15] You know these hurt from Afghan and Iraq and where's our weapons and I'd sort of sort of changing their mindset
[02:04:21] There actually there is no friend and you know needs to be all all low key
[02:04:26] I was also trying to find
[02:04:29] A niche within the industry and I was looking at all these other security companies a lot of my friends had there their security companies were doing
[02:04:36] Anti piracy of these coast of Africa so I don't want to tread on their feet
[02:04:41] So somebody big security companies I identify with charging you know six figure sums for crisis management
[02:04:47] And evacuation plans, but when you just scrape the surface and there was nothing in place
[02:04:52] So I haven't spent two weeks set that up. I am I flew back home and Alana gave birth to I thought Molly and
[02:05:00] I said I think I've got a plan
[02:05:02] So I went back in to Libya and
[02:05:07] And there's a huge proliferation of weapons at the time. It's actually how many shins it was difficult to go all of so I bought 30 weapons on the black market
[02:05:14] And I buried them between tuners and Egypt and I just spent a month in the desert
[02:05:19] Just occasion these pelicases with coms kits and money and just wrote my own evacuation plans hoping
[02:05:26] Never to really really need them and that's why I did we lived in Aberdeen which was the
[02:05:30] All-in-gas capital of Europe so I had a good links to the oil and gas sector and that's what I did
[02:05:35] I then that was my niche I'd found an niche within within the industry
[02:05:40] So yeah now did you set that up where you were talking to the oil companies and I've been to Aberdeen thankfully
[02:05:46] Very cool. Have you ever served there? I haven't no, but I know
[02:05:50] I'm a third so firm enough is it wanted a great spot. I was there in like the winner and
[02:05:55] You could have served it like it wouldn't have been fun, but you could have served
[02:05:58] I was looking at the waves I went for a little run down there and I was looking at the waves and I was like well you could do it
[02:06:04] You could do it, but we're making not fun
[02:06:07] Pro-rece-frizing choppy
[02:06:09] Is like barely you could price her for about you know two seconds or three seconds per wave
[02:06:15] You'd have the waves to yourself though there was no water. There's no even on the beach
[02:06:20] So did you did you
[02:06:22] Set that those all that gear up and then go and pitch to clients like hey I've got these plans set up
[02:06:29] Here's what I can do for you and then are they giving you some kind of revenue upfront?
[02:06:33] Yeah, so it's it's basically I'd identified that I'd wrote them up first
[02:06:38] You know because it's also right I have this plan in place, you know
[02:06:42] I had the case it's in my own sort of mindset with it was I and I knew that the Libyan's didn't want security companies
[02:06:49] We're weapons so before long we we could do that some I sort of mindset was if there was a situation
[02:06:55] We could drive across the border unarmed you know go to the case points pick them up
[02:07:00] It would need the if we needed weapons and you know and then and get you know decline out and then I'm in barium
[02:07:05] That was it so
[02:07:06] It was almost like a retainer knowing that that service was there and then we used to I used to have like
[02:07:13] Triggers you know
[02:07:15] You know if there's a certain situation we go up to yellow we go up to amber so really you should never if if you're a deer into that
[02:07:21] Trigger system that you have in place you shouldn't really
[02:07:24] Need to go for a line evacuation the only thing that sort of
[02:07:29] Is it is natural disasters that's where you can go from green to red overnight
[02:07:32] There's it's a natural disaster so really if you have that in place, but that's something I just picked up from the military
[02:07:38] Was it was these case systems in these case sister how to see with the IRA and the Taliban use these case systems
[02:07:44] That's where it originates and but for me it just wasn't I was walking around with weapons, but I knew
[02:07:50] I had safe houses and I knew that a weapons available if needed and you built relationships
[02:07:55] And you talk about that a lot here. Yeah, yeah, you know
[02:07:59] Sort of you know I when I got out as well
[02:08:01] I didn't want to be going out to Afghanistan and Iraq you know I've done my time in the dead
[02:08:07] It no I sort of the security cut security industry isn't risk reward ratio balance at all
[02:08:13] You know you could be in Yemen, Libya or Somalia on 50% of what you're on taking the UAE rule family
[02:08:19] Superio from Barcelona to Maldeeps. I was that well, where's the money and it's in the corporate close protection
[02:08:24] So I didn't have cargo pants and tight tops, you know it was like it was a nice dinner jacket
[02:08:30] Sure and and brooks and and that was that was my approach, but
[02:08:34] Everyone has this perception of special forces you know is about offensive action
[02:08:39] It's you know breaching walls is it's kicking indoors and things that that's 25% of what we do
[02:08:44] 50% of what we do is is
[02:08:47] Support an influence it's hearts and minds being embedded with the locals understanding actually what is
[02:08:53] The situation on the ground not what I'm seeing on TV, but what is actually
[02:08:57] Basically going on underground
[02:08:58] So for me, I really built up
[02:09:00] Good relationships with local fixes
[02:09:02] You know there's 167 tribes and Libya so my fixer in triply isn't the same fixer in Benghazi
[02:09:08] So I I quickly understood that especially during that that Arab spring and
[02:09:14] I just returned from the London Olympics. I was providing security for visa and
[02:09:20] I was in Benghazi the evening that you were American ambassador got killed
[02:09:24] September 11, 2012 and I got a phone call could I escort
[02:09:29] Help a German oil company and eight German engineers get them out on Benghazi
[02:09:34] So while it was all I think I made a film 30 now as well as all kicking off in the sea
[02:09:38] I got these guys safely
[02:09:40] From Benghazi to triply through safe houses that I had in the desert and they again
[02:09:45] I remember we had drivers from Benghazi and we got to the safe house and we could you know
[02:09:50] We could drive to triply in a day
[02:09:52] But I said no we'll wait here for 48 hours which was worrying the engineers a bit and the Benghazi guys had like big big
[02:09:59] Bids and
[02:10:00] Oh no no Mr Dean we can go. I said no no we wait 48 hours
[02:10:04] But they were nervous. I knew there were nervous going into triply because they're from the wrong region
[02:10:11] Well, what they weren't aware of as I was getting drivers coming in from triply to meet as they would carry on
[02:10:17] It's that sort of knowledge knowing who to use and when to use and
[02:10:22] Remember the morning we'll leave in in this poor guy some Benghazi
[02:10:25] I couldn't tell them they'd shave all their bids and I was doing outside and the triply driver to turn up
[02:10:31] It was like a almost like a scene from the okay carol. They all start going for their weapons
[02:10:35] I said look I said I cannot take you to triply you will compromise us
[02:10:40] These guys can do it and I said look you will still get paid and it's just all about
[02:10:45] Respect you know I always say about communication but for that operation I couldn't I couldn't
[02:10:50] Dive old too much to them so I got them safely out and then two years later I was in
[02:10:57] Brazil for visa again coming to woke up
[02:11:00] And I then get a phone call from the Canadian embassy so what had happened now is the triply war
[02:11:05] It's a civil war between the militias and the government and
[02:11:10] Embassies the only reason embassies are in countries all about trade and investment
[02:11:15] You know what can we get for for our country know when it when things start opening up
[02:11:19] So October 13 the
[02:11:23] They'd done an assessment the Canadians and basically
[02:11:25] It was costing them 20 million dollars a year to have the embassy open and the
[02:11:30] Sort of assessment was there's a good mean no trade investment for about at least 15 years
[02:11:35] So when we see a window of opportunity let's
[02:11:38] Claps the embassy and leave but it couldn't just collapse them because the locals would be questioned
[02:11:43] So fast forward now of summer 14 the triply war the Americans the Brits your talons
[02:11:48] They just shot shot and went what the Canadians aren't going back so they had to shred everything and stay there
[02:11:54] Their protection team was Canadian military and they would fly in every four months rotate
[02:12:01] Flying to triple international airport but during their period of four months they never left
[02:12:06] The wars of triply they just went from their accommodation to the office it didn't get out the city
[02:12:12] So they didn't know what was beyond the city walls and it's actually only 100 kilometers coastal road from triply to tuners
[02:12:18] So I flew in and we'd already evacuated a couple of people from USA and I did I don't go
[02:12:26] With the big overt vehicle was like local taxis and just keep it all low profile and
[02:12:32] The week before the British got engaged at every checkpoint on the way to to tuners which is obviously
[02:12:38] Warri in the Canadians so me my fixer
[02:12:42] We went out and we just rather speak into the guys who got the weapons we know identified who the tribal elders was
[02:12:50] sat down with them
[02:12:51] No shared bread, yeah coffee and it was actually all about communication
[02:12:55] Shownham respect and
[02:12:58] Yeah, the following following day day then escort it us safely so about 18 military and four diplomats
[02:13:05] single handedly from
[02:13:07] Tripley to to tuners yeah just to put that in perspective a little bit when I was a young seal before
[02:13:14] before you know
[02:13:15] September 11th
[02:13:17] One of the main missions I did two deployments with the Marine Corps on ships and one of the main missions that we would train for is called a
[02:13:26] Niel non-combatant evacuation operation which is literally to go into whatever
[02:13:31] you know un-American embassy presumably and go in in some hostel or semi-hospital country and evacuate those people but they would have an
[02:13:40] entire amphibious ready group with you know
[02:13:44] Several battalions of Marines the air support the seals all to go and get whatever that group is out of the country
[02:13:51] So when I was reading that portion of the book where you made this happen that's a that's a huge deal to do this
[02:13:57] Essentially a mission that normally that could utilize an entire amphibious ready group with air frames and
[02:14:05] ships and the whole nine yards to make this happen and you're able to do it
[02:14:09] In a different from a different angle by utilizing the locals by having building relationships with the locals going and doing it low profile
[02:14:18] That's just a it's a real credit to what the way you were thinking about that operation. Yeah, you have to think out the box
[02:14:24] You know the fish wagons as fish wagons that take fish from tripply to tune is every day
[02:14:29] So we used the fish wagons to put the equipment in because they would just go straight through
[02:14:34] Border control there were a bit slow again to tune is that I can see the Canadians getting it getting a bit a bit worried
[02:14:40] But yeah, it was just thinking thinking out the box we did have UAV coverage there was UAV coverage to the border and then when we're at the border
[02:14:48] The Canadians and Matt but I did that job for free and the reason I did that was the year before I just finished
[02:14:56] Yeah, well I'd be go ahead. It's it's it's an interesting perspective
[02:15:02] You you you got yourself into a situation yeah that maybe didn't give the best image of what you were trying to do
[02:15:10] Yeah, so my role with in the security and she I was very ad hoc you know when I got out a lot of my friends went over to work in the UAE
[02:15:16] Train their military which is great good money and things out, but I wanted to learn more
[02:15:21] You know
[02:15:22] Outside that militia environment as well. I actually did more sensitive jobs as a private secure operative and I did when I was in the special forces
[02:15:29] And you know I worked all over Africa Yemen you know every time I got a phone call it was a different country. It was a different job
[02:15:36] and
[02:15:37] I just come out with Yemen and I was in Dubai and I got a phone call from my friend
[02:15:43] We just sat up in a new company London and he said can you be can you be in Libya tomorrow?
[02:15:47] I said well I can't my my Viz is expired
[02:15:50] Don't worry about that. This is a different call by the way. I did that quote earlier. Did you can you be
[02:15:54] Can you be in Libya Libya tomorrow? This is another time that that happened. This is another time
[02:15:58] Good this was what this is what you were doing. They once you got out of the military you're running these security events
[02:16:02] You're providing security or doing assessments. You're doing evacuations and so this is another time when you got the call
[02:16:08] Hey can you be in Libya tomorrow? Yeah can you be in Libya tomorrow and I was out well no because my Viz is expired and he said you don't need a Viz
[02:16:16] I was at fine so we flew via Manchester flew straight in and I I got to the
[02:16:22] I got to the airport terminal and it's young guy comes out to me so you missed the Dean
[02:16:26] I said you heard Mr Dean so follow me so that everyone's in the queue for a passport and we went in another queue
[02:16:32] And we went to took me into the city and went to the to Bestie Hotel
[02:16:36] Which is part of the Crimfield hotel group. I knew that was owned by the Maltese and also by the governor
[02:16:42] And one of the guys that he said right
[02:16:44] Met my one of my partners there. My business partners and he said right you're just about to go meet the Prime Minister Libya
[02:16:50] It speaks no English speaks German so the health minister's gonna translate as I get fined
[02:16:57] So but but they're born on the back story about 48 hours before the militias had seized all the oil terminals to stop
[02:17:04] Export and a boil in Libya and so we went upstairs and he sits down to explain this situation to me
[02:17:12] And he says at one of what do we do and I said well
[02:17:16] So what do you want he said I want I want terminals but the terminals back
[02:17:20] I said look well we can we can pull a team together you know do four four simultaneous assaults
[02:17:27] You know don't want to back to back you all your walnut four simple tennis assaults
[02:17:30] I've ever from sea or from land but leave the flank open from to escape
[02:17:34] Said no I don't want to misscape. I sort of looked over to my friend and
[02:17:39] And he said this is being sanctioned
[02:17:41] I'm not really so that okay
[02:17:43] So let me just translate this for people that might not be tracking
[02:17:47] So there's oil
[02:17:49] Um rigs that have been seized the Prime Minister of
[02:17:53] Libya is sitting there telling you I want these things back from these
[02:17:57] Insurgents or whatever you want to call them I want these oil rigs back from these insurgents
[02:18:02] I want you to do a simultaneous that where you said hey, I can do a simultaneous assault
[02:18:07] Yeah, so you're gonna need a lot of people to do this and then you say listen
[02:18:10] You know smart thing you're thinking hey, I'll give them a way to get out so that way they're not gonna stand and fight
[02:18:15] Hopefully and you know will will mitigate damage
[02:18:18] And he says no we don't want anyone to escape we want you to go and kill all these people that are on these oil rigs
[02:18:24] And that's so that's the the mission tasking that you're getting okay
[02:18:29] So that's the mission task and and full of listeners so basically in Libya Benghazi over in the east is where all the oil is and
[02:18:36] The politicians rule in the west and again different tribes they do not get on well
[02:18:41] So and then in the middle you got Mizrata as well and there's then so there's a big mess
[02:18:46] So I walked out this meeting and on that
[02:18:48] Right, I'm gonna need at least 150 guys, you know 50 tier one and 70 tier two and
[02:18:55] This has been funded. He said it. Yeah, make it happen so
[02:18:59] Straight away some like I'm having to make phone calls and I would love to see the invoice
[02:19:04] I'm this that you're gonna see that but the and it was no the money we were getting for this job was
[02:19:11] Four times your normal daily wage, you know and so I I had guys on standby in UK on like
[02:19:17] Twice as much they're doing in Iraq and in Africa and just stay in the home
[02:19:22] It was huge it started to grow into a beast and every evening
[02:19:26] I would go up and speak to the Prime Minister update where we are in the situation and
[02:19:30] And you know this went on for like two or three weeks the problem I had was some guys was starting to come in and
[02:19:36] It was trying to hide them you know
[02:19:38] It's keeping out of you because there was other Prime and security companies there who I knew I had a great reputation in in Libya
[02:19:44] And they're like oh what you what you're doing Dean I'm not reviewing my evacuation plans
[02:19:48] It was like you know the guys do look very special forces
[02:19:52] So this went on for about three weeks and
[02:19:56] But in all the planning in the place
[02:19:58] Doing all our wreckies using his private jet in butterfly over the areas identifying you know
[02:20:04] There's any aircraft we can utilize you know without the top of the the equipment list
[02:20:08] We had kit coming in from like platter tank you know all over the world
[02:20:11] And so yeah, it was a big invoice and
[02:20:14] This evening I went up to the Prime Minister and he said look
[02:20:17] So I need to go to
[02:20:19] To New York tomorrow's the UN conference
[02:20:22] But each evening please come up brief up the health minister. So it's fine
[02:20:27] So the following evening I went upstairs and the health ministers in and so now the Prime Minister went to New York
[02:20:32] He's in New York now and you're just along with the the health minister health minister
[02:20:36] Who actually turns out to be not the health minister but a hospital manager from
[02:20:39] London it's the only guy who could trust so it's very close doors
[02:20:43] But in the in the corner over my left was a larger gentleman with a big bushy
[02:20:48] Tash and he's just saying nothing so me and health minister a chat in a way next
[02:20:53] He just starts screaming living they start arguing and living so I just pull my
[02:20:58] Pull my chair back and let that's quiet down
[02:21:01] I mean he just then started talking in the perfect English
[02:21:04] He said who are you? I told him who are what?
[02:21:07] He said what you're doing here and I'm explained and
[02:21:11] He was the head of their SIS intelligence service and he said
[02:21:16] No one knows this is happening in government you know he's going the Prime Minister's gone on their own back
[02:21:21] That's okay and he said where are we with it? I said well this is the stage rat
[02:21:25] You know one or two more weeks and we read it ago and he's not
[02:21:28] So I'm not saying stop it but can we slow it down? I'm thinking we're the daily wage we're on the slowdown as much you want
[02:21:35] And I said yeah, of course
[02:21:37] So yeah, I said well look I tell you what we're doing is why not we design a special forces training program for
[02:21:44] Libions in the West and the Libions in East because they were never trained together
[02:21:48] That way it would be
[02:21:50] Covered the reason why this equipment coming in it would justify what it's guys coming in so it's we went to an agreement on that
[02:21:55] He's the one pay what he is
[02:21:57] He's right
[02:21:58] Right, so
[02:22:00] So that's what we did
[02:22:02] Anyway, the you know the government paying it was a third part you I can't mention it was paying for this and about we lay it as it looked
[02:22:08] You know we are safe and come on here
[02:22:10] And let's call it a day
[02:22:12] Could we can pick this up any time we can come back and pick it. I'll just said yeah, perfect. Let's do that
[02:22:17] So I sent a start sending the guide back and one of my best friends he stayed out with me
[02:22:21] I said let we'll go back tomorrow
[02:22:23] That evening we're in the
[02:22:26] There's a restaurant at the top of hotel nice Moroccan open air restaurant and we could hear
[02:22:31] A distinct sound of an AC-1-3
[02:22:35] You know what a hurtly's aircraft sound is like distinct and we're like that
[02:22:39] That's a hook
[02:22:40] But there was four AC-1-4 is at Milita, military airport around the corner
[02:22:45] But they were grounded they didn't work could already done the rec on them see if we could utilize them
[02:22:50] Fort enough in of it
[02:22:51] Anyway the next morning all over the world news dealt force had come in and picked up an a Q guy responsible for the cans
[02:22:58] Kenyan tans in air bombings
[02:23:00] So obviously the prime minister when you got into your an a dinner agreement for the Americans given it the green light
[02:23:06] Which is fine
[02:23:08] But of course everyone thought that was me
[02:23:10] You know me and my mate trying to get out the airport that day was difficult
[02:23:14] Because and obviously explaining to the other security companies as well that wasn't me
[02:23:19] We got out
[02:23:21] The prime minister got back about three days later. He got arrested by the militias
[02:23:25] He got released in the end again people thought I was responsible for that
[02:23:29] I wasn't so I kept a low profile for about a couple of weeks and I flew black back in and
[02:23:34] I was winning contracts. I was getting some good contracts, but I wasn't getting
[02:23:38] Your oil and gas your NGOs. I wasn't getting the big ones and I met a friend who's an excess
[02:23:43] It's guy who's a security advisor for PMC
[02:23:47] And
[02:23:48] Also PWC and he says
[02:23:50] He says stop everyone thinks you're you're a mercenary
[02:23:53] You're
[02:23:54] We're not mercenary. I see it with sanctioned by the various governments
[02:23:58] It was actually a show of thought how quickly we could pull a private team together
[02:24:03] He said yeah, we know that
[02:24:04] I said but for the general you know
[02:24:06] Algorithm corporations you do their diligence. They they don't see it like that
[02:24:10] So then when it came to the Canadian embassy
[02:24:14] Everyone had gone no security companies were gonna come back in and help the Canadians
[02:24:17] So when I came in they said what was the cost?
[02:24:20] And I said I think it was about $7,000 and that was to cover the fish wagons
[02:24:24] My fixer and I charged enough in and then I walked in no everyone's at you could have made
[02:24:30] But for me it was actually then brushed off
[02:24:33] That reputation have been immersive and then put my name on the top of the pile has been the number one
[02:24:38] Did that up for $7,000?
[02:24:40] $7,000 we've got
[02:24:41] $24,000 so a 22 people whole embassy
[02:24:45] Hopefully that's ridiculous
[02:24:49] My wife you should have charged
[02:24:51] You could have kept your rate reputation or we're earned back your reputation and at least
[02:24:56] I ain't a little money on the fact but for me it's all about you know
[02:24:59] It wasn't in money. I liked like to help people and that's what I wanted to get across and is the fact and yeah
[02:25:05] Did you know so then we came number one in industry yeah, yeah, so it's a strategic move
[02:25:09] Obviously to do that and take care of those people and and give them a good deal and and clean your reputation up after it
[02:25:17] Been a little bit you know tarnished by this involvement and and you know you go into some details on the book on that about just just the fact that
[02:25:25] You know you can be sitting there talking to the actual prime minister of the country at the time and
[02:25:32] It's not what it looks like
[02:25:36] I'm out of backup a little bit this one part in the book you're talking about your new normal and this is what you're doing
[02:25:42] Your dad had been diagnosed with cancer
[02:25:47] You drove to the hospital when you got to the hospital your sisters are there your step moms there
[02:25:52] They'd been there kind of kind of just toiling with the whole situation
[02:25:58] You show up and put them on rotation like hey, I'm going home. I'll be back in the morning
[02:26:03] You know you need to get some sleep because they were out there at the edge and then you come back
[02:26:08] Um, and you go into this the next eight hours was probably the longest continuous amount of time
[02:26:14] They we had ever spent together. This is with your dad in the hospital
[02:26:17] He's in rough shape. We had a bit of a chat, but it was superficial. He was on pain killers
[02:26:22] But that had never been our style anyways. I knew I loved him
[02:26:26] He knew I loved him and I knew he loved me anything else I can do for you. I asked him. He told me I had a pain in his leg
[02:26:32] I saw he had a problem with one of his pain relief devices. I took a couple of seconds to fix it and instantly
[02:26:39] He looks to read and nodded off to sleep when the girls returned that evening
[02:26:43] He was still peaceful. I've never seen him look so calm my step mom said
[02:26:48] Well, that's because he hasn't got three women fussing over a misnet. I joke to every squad
[02:26:52] He knows that dark humor is how you cope with death
[02:26:55] I stood up and gave my dad a pat on the shoulder when we would be back when will you be back?
[02:27:00] One of my sisters asked me. I shook my head. I won't I'm going back to Aberdeen
[02:27:05] They couldn't believe it. I've said my goodbyes. I told them and my family are up in Aberdeen. That's where I need to be
[02:27:12] I knew it would be the last time that I saw them and I was at peace with that
[02:27:16] Back in Aberdeen that night I got news that I had been expecting
[02:27:20] How's your dad doing? Allana asked me the next day at breakfast?
[02:27:24] He died last night. I replied and went back to eating my cereal. I was that blase about the whole thing
[02:27:29] I didn't realize it then but death had been normalized for me
[02:27:34] So two at my ways of coping with it a complete numbing of my emotions
[02:27:38] My father had passed away and I'd given my wife the news in the same way that I'd tell her that the kettle had just boiled
[02:27:44] Over the next week or so I took control of the practical side of my dad's death. I helped arrange the funeral and made
[02:27:50] Contact with the royal engineers associations that they could be present
[02:27:54] I wore my lavats one of the ceremonial uniforms of the Royal Marines and the SPS
[02:28:00] I wore my green beret my medals and my fathers
[02:28:03] It was the last time that I wore the uniform and I suppose that it was a truth
[02:28:08] Fitting tribute in itself my dad had been a huge part of me beginning in the my military journey and now
[02:28:16] He was part of its end
[02:28:18] How are you feeling? A lot of asked me after the funeral?
[02:28:20] I need to leave the house at 0600 hours tomorrow to get to the airport. I told her and reply
[02:28:27] In a moment when most people are racked by emotion I was print planning my travel for the job in South Africa
[02:28:34] I was relentless but in pursuit of what and why
[02:28:44] Now
[02:28:46] Obviously you know it's uh something that
[02:28:48] You know we we have to deal with death on a big way and in
[02:28:54] Especially when with with people that
[02:28:57] You know I don't know how old your dad was when he died but
[02:29:01] 67
[02:29:02] Had to had a grown son and and and kids and had lived his life and you know I know for me
[02:29:10] You know for us it's hard because we see we see our friends that died that are
[02:29:13] 2732 you know they they haven't had that opportunity and I think that's something that makes a little sense of my head of
[02:29:22] When someone older dies of course it's sad but you know that they had a good life and they had that opportunity and then like you said you know
[02:29:32] We we unfortunately have to see a lot of people dying you have to figure out how to get through that
[02:29:39] And sometimes maybe it's not the
[02:29:41] Well sometimes I guess we take the emotional side of it and and have to stay for a down
[02:29:47] Maybe not the best thing to do but it's kind of what we do yeah
[02:29:50] So what is that we deal with things that
[02:29:52] That we my my father you know when I join the army
[02:29:56] That was it that was my new family one of my sisters stayed with my my dad and my other sister went up to a mum
[02:30:02] So they they had their own life so when I joined the army that was it that was my family you know
[02:30:06] I would only get in touch my dad was at old school you know me and he
[02:30:10] I remember getting a phone call is that you got to ring your dad about really you know and it was because of my cousin
[02:30:15] The come over from Australia he would only ring if it was really really important
[02:30:18] So I would do my normal birthdays and Christmas and that was enough
[02:30:21] No news was good news in my family my dad sort of knew to score he would know about me coming back from a toy
[02:30:28] I wouldn't tell him when I was going so we we had that that relationship so I you know
[02:30:33] We weren't close close
[02:30:35] But I think it was just after Christmas well we knew he'd been diagnosed and it was terminal and things that and my sister
[02:30:42] Said you need to come down you need to come down and yeah, I know
[02:30:45] That she was being a bit over reactive and then her husband rang me I said you know need to come down
[02:30:49] So I said yeah, I'll come down and I went in there and literally they're all watching is every breath
[02:30:54] You know there are eyes were like piss holes in the snow they had no sleep like 24 hours
[02:30:59] So I just flown in I hadn't seen them for months
[02:31:01] I said right I'm just off to my friends out and that what I said because you know you guys tomorrow
[02:31:07] It will be useless you know
[02:31:09] I mean I just the military just kicked in you know, we need to do centuries when he did routines and
[02:31:14] I remember my mum calling me from Manchester team you need to come down. It's like you know
[02:31:20] They're upset you deal with
[02:31:23] Definitely they're they're they're they do but like I said that eight hours I had with my dad
[02:31:28] You know that was the longest I had and you know for me I'd I'd said my goodbyes and
[02:31:33] Yeah, I just I just went a bit
[02:31:35] That was 2014 it was the same year that evacuated the Canadian embassy when I came back from that trip
[02:31:41] I did the same thing again. I sat down and my normal SOP would be to you know
[02:31:47] De-service and resurface my kit ready for the next phone call and
[02:31:51] One of my shirts was was covered in blood
[02:31:53] I'd had minutes the first aid at traffic accident at the border so I said to my wife
[02:31:59] I said can we get the blood out which could yeah
[02:32:02] I'm one and oh my this blood in there and I sort of subloved just evacuated Canadian embassy
[02:32:07] She's like it's like there's another flowway coming like you told me your dad just died
[02:32:12] So actually we sat down at evening down two balls of port and
[02:32:16] Yeah tears started flowing and really and what it was is actually I hadn't come to terms with the fact that I didn't
[02:32:23] Left the special forces. I was still trying to match that adrenaline rush that I had when I was still in
[02:32:29] So everything even
[02:32:31] Approaching the further my father had died that hadn't hadn't sunk in
[02:32:35] So as you mentioned early and it takes a whole brigade evacuated so you know
[02:32:38] I didn't have that top cover. I didn't have the helo support that the guys come in
[02:32:42] So that's when the the pin drop for me that something needs to change
[02:32:47] And it was actually all about communication and I had I'd built it up inside me and it was that evening
[02:32:53] That it really kicked in that your dad's not here. You don't have to prove a point
[02:32:58] anymore, so yeah, it was a big I think it's cool the chat school dead or divorced as well
[02:33:04] So you know I'd reached that tea junction. I was either gonna die or not have a family if I didn't change the way my life star
[02:33:11] You um one of the things that you you breeze the over us when you when you did the world cup and Brazil
[02:33:15] and
[02:33:18] I'll just jump into it. It was at the Brazil versus Cameroon game that I got a chance to catch up with a friend of mine
[02:33:24] He was there representing the football association because his brother couldn't make it
[02:33:28] Happy that my clients were secure with the other lads. I left my place and went to the presidential box to meet my mate from the army
[02:33:37] All right, Stati he said
[02:33:39] How are you mate? I asked him we'd met back in 2007 at a joint tactical air controller
[02:33:46] Sorry joint terminal attack control or jacorce held at RAF
[02:33:50] Leaming there were 18 students and when we've been told to behave towards a certain individual as we would to anybody else in the forces
[02:33:59] No special treatment
[02:34:00] It was on the second day that we hit it off when we were
[02:34:03] Being given our call signs from the back of the room. I'd made a joke at his expense and there was a sharp
[02:34:10] Inhalation of breath as everybody waited to see how it would look or see how he would see how he took it
[02:34:16] He laughed and that was how I came to be paired up for the rest of the course with Prince Harry
[02:34:21] Who was one of the most decent blocs you could meet he's a military man through and through and I think part of the reason
[02:34:27] He loved the army so much was that he could just be himself
[02:34:29] He was comfortable in this environment and he could handle his rank and job as well as any other soldier
[02:34:35] I'd met it was great to see him in Brazil
[02:34:38] Not because he was a prince but because he was a comrade from my days in kit just like one of the boys
[02:34:45] How long was that course?
[02:34:47] That's it has six week course so this we're going back now to 2007 and
[02:34:52] You know, RF Leaming
[02:34:54] You know, you're tornados and you're your fighters you know with their brown shoes probably and the
[02:35:03] And let's see that Ariv Lee the J attack course is a wooden hut at the end of the runway
[02:35:08] You know, no one even knows were there
[02:35:10] So I remember walking in the room and clocking him. He's probably about 23 so basically this is when he
[02:35:16] He wanted to go on his first tour to Afghanistan
[02:35:18] But he couldn't just go on tour
[02:35:20] You know, he had to have a role within the unit and his command and officers in SES guidance
[02:35:25] So we'll look
[02:35:26] Go on your J attack course you could be the regiment or forward air control
[02:35:30] So that's what he did he came on the course and
[02:35:32] Like I say could he was there you know every man in his dog turned up for some face time with him and
[02:35:37] You know, it was it was cringing but the back for the the the lads at the back for in the back were two SES and two SPS guys
[02:35:45] And he was literally certain front of me and you know everyone did the they're open in the dress
[02:35:49] Harry then left the room and then they're coming down as like right
[02:35:53] Get's no preferential treatment, you know, treat him like one in their own you know
[02:35:57] Baba, but that's fine
[02:35:58] Harry then comes back in and the first lecture is cool signs
[02:36:02] So on the course you call jackpot one to jackpot one eight so at least the pilot knows
[02:36:06] Who the student is and then you know for example the prefix for special boat service is mayhem some mayhem for free
[02:36:13] And you know widow maker for the SES so Harry puts his hand up and he says
[02:36:17] You know if successful on this course
[02:36:20] To get a cool sign and I just blew it out. Yeah, you're fox piss one like that and of course everyone was just that
[02:36:27] You know you can't say that I'm just that well you've just told me to treat him like the one
[02:36:30] So he turns over you know looks at the very smiles at me
[02:36:33] Oh god
[02:36:34] I'm gonna get beheaded
[02:36:37] And
[02:36:38] That afternoon the sergeant mays it comes back in and he's right I've randomly picked these jackpot numbers
[02:36:43] He working with me any people the an SES guy an SPS guy Prince Harry and an RAF officer
[02:36:50] And then the other 14 which didn't make sense
[02:36:53] Well with it, I was that way you've randomly picked those
[02:36:56] But you could see
[02:36:57] On the course that was when I got my sort of first exposure so me and him got pounded off
[02:37:01] Because they knew he wasn't gonna get any preference to human and I think
[02:37:04] You made that quick. I mean that quite clear but also the fact that he
[02:37:08] He's probably is most comfortable there because he wasn't being critiqued by the media and
[02:37:12] Everyone else he could be Harry could be you know left ten and where wasn't things like that and he was actually a good
[02:37:18] Operate you know he's clear and precise over the net. He didn't get flustered
[02:37:22] So you know he's well worthy of that role and and then we maintain that relationship after that
[02:37:28] We you know we did a lot together. We do a lot in in charity and I remember
[02:37:35] Going to we had a big rugby game called the army navy each year
[02:37:38] Twicken him it's like it's the biggest rugby event in 150,000 people turn off
[02:37:43] Yeah, yeah, they drink more alcohol on that one weekend than every international rugby
[02:37:48] So he was is my wife
[02:37:51] Alana she didn't really know I knew him and I not long been injured so my legs in a brace and right to
[02:37:56] Iknow and I
[02:37:58] He takes me so let's catch up in a car park so a caught up in a car park and this was
[02:38:02] This was now ready is training to be a pilot and you know we we started chatting and he said look
[02:38:09] Pass my course I need to make a decision you know where I fly Apache or links and links is like
[02:38:15] Glorify taxi driver for genals round and
[02:38:19] When we're chatting to the the Apache course signs in afghan they're prefects is ugly no ugly one ugly too
[02:38:25] So I said look I was tell the lads go ugly early
[02:38:27] And so he that he then messes me a few days later and said yeah, I'm going ugly so he then goes a patchy
[02:38:35] Fast forward and we're at a big special forces charity event and he's he's a guest on my table
[02:38:41] And they auctioned off his special boat service like
[02:38:45] Statue silver plated with like 40,000 pounds and Harry's out of beautiful
[02:38:49] I was not for 40 grandness. I knew I knew the bronze one was only 75 pounds
[02:38:53] You know so I did I I bought one and I got it
[02:39:00] I got it laminate and I said you know Harry said
[02:39:04] Congratulations on being ugly now mayhem for free. I got it delivered to the palace but yeah
[02:39:10] He you know he did 10 years and he ended another tour you know
[02:39:14] That was where he was he was most comfortable and that's when we started you know building our relationship you know
[02:39:19] So the read you know is this you it's got me so tight who people he can trust and and to be part at
[02:39:27] 13 years later is a bit thing. I mean he knows obviously the integrity of the special forces you know
[02:39:33] No people I get messages all the time can you speak the Harry and yeah
[02:39:38] Dilly
[02:39:41] Yeah, that's I just I wonder kissie he's gonna end up playing a role little later. He is yeah
[02:39:45] Um but going back to the dead or divorced section of this book
[02:39:51] So you pretty much
[02:39:53] You get the message like I mean they're gonna get divorced or I'm gonna be dead
[02:39:57] I don't like either one of those outcomes so you you you kind of stand down from the security stuff and
[02:40:03] You're got to get a job
[02:40:05] Like a regular job. So we're going to the book here. I needed a job and a lot of suggested that come work with her in
[02:40:10] In the property development sector it would be a chance for me to learn about something outside kicking indoors and
[02:40:16] Sneaking people out of countries and because I wanted what was best my family. I gave it a go
[02:40:21] I was about an hour into it before I started to fantasize about launching myself out of the nearest window
[02:40:27] Everything that I'd done in my life I had done with the ethos of unrelenting pursuit pursuit of excellence
[02:40:32] The unrelenting pursuit of excellence and I tried to bring that attitude into the office
[02:40:38] But something was missing and you spend some time doing that and and
[02:40:45] Then she can tell like your miserable yeah and you're trying to suck it up like a good
[02:40:50] Like a good man and
[02:40:52] Finally she says you know you look miserable and you're like yeah
[02:40:55] I am and she says why don't you want to start biking to the office start cycling to the office
[02:40:59] And it's 10 miles each way you start doing that
[02:41:03] You're starting to that's cool. I hate you're starting to get you're starting to get after it
[02:41:06] You know on the bike and try to beat your times and all that and she says you know basically you're still not happy
[02:41:13] Are you and
[02:41:14] You admit to her like no I don't like sitting in a cubicle or whatever is you're doing and finally one day
[02:41:20] She she rolls in on you and you know she's holding something what's that?
[02:41:24] I asked her she had a book in her hands a big one along the threw that me
[02:41:28] Read it and pick something she said I look down at what had landed in my lap
[02:41:33] She knew me I smiled open to the cover and began reading Guinness book of worlds record
[02:41:40] Records so that's what she did she knew the book you and said figure out what figure out something to do
[02:41:45] Yeah, yeah, so so a bit about a learner actually you know when when I transition
[02:41:49] You hear horror stories when people are transition from the military some can be quite turbulent and some quite smooth
[02:41:54] So when I met a learner as she was a bank manager for all the free the biggest banks in Aberdeen
[02:41:59] So when I'm worried about you know certain people she set my first security company on a phone watching TV
[02:42:05] And I'm not for me is like whether I've ticked the right box so she she knew about the corporate side
[02:42:10] Which helped my transition and and it is a massive part in in moving forward
[02:42:15] So when I came back from the Canadian MC the dead of divorcing
[02:42:18] It was actually she thought I wanted to go away and I thought that she needs me go away to make money
[02:42:22] So it was actually a lack of communication
[02:42:24] You know we sat down it saw communicate and she said well look we don't need money. I've got my own
[02:42:30] Property business you know come come wherever me. So I said fine
[02:42:33] So
[02:42:34] This is about five years now from leaving the military to this stage of my life my engine leg was now two kilos lighter
[02:42:40] But my good leg because of the muscle wasted so when I was away on these security jobs
[02:42:44] If there was a gym there I took my TRX everywhere you know it was a very upper body focus and it wasn't neglected my CV
[02:42:51] So I just bought a push bike
[02:42:53] Sorry got him looking echo about that
[02:42:56] These skipping leg days growing score. I just worried about those guns
[02:43:02] So I so I bought push bike or vammers and you know important Batman lycra thinking it was cool
[02:43:07] It wasn't um but I didn't know anything about cycling
[02:43:11] I but straight away just it's only about eight miles a mile about but being physically active
[02:43:14] And you know you felt there was a big way off your shoulders. You know I can't run anymore and then I just thought perfect
[02:43:20] But you know when my back story sat in his architects and planners meetings or that
[02:43:25] No interest in these drawings and you know me
[02:43:28] My wife could see the glaze over my eyes you know I was a morning yesterday in the coffee in the biscuits actually
[02:43:34] When my son was born I was a one-hole in the baby feeling feeding the baby well she was doing all the work
[02:43:39] You just felt like
[02:43:41] You know is this it is all I've got to offer now. I didn't want to be taking those risks that I did before
[02:43:46] So I was about a month before my 40th birthday and I was getting ground middle age Christy ground rush
[02:43:52] And I was always remember doing all in memory then Guinness book records so
[02:43:57] You know I was thinking
[02:43:58] Cycling because it's not impacting my knee you know maybe I should have etts well for era rushes in a minute or something
[02:44:03] It's something a bit easier but living in Scotland
[02:44:06] I was thinking maybe you know maybe Aberdeen to Dundee about 60 miles
[02:44:10] My wife and found the world's longest road just like from southern Argentina to northern Alaska
[02:44:15] So I was a joke that she clearly wanted me out the house. I was like
[02:44:20] So it's like it's it's it has 14,000 miles it's called the Pan American Highway
[02:44:26] Well the Pan American Highway yeah so you know to give it an idea because of the curvature of the earth
[02:44:32] It's just the equivalent of the cycling from London to Sydney and then another 4,000 miles
[02:44:37] It's that big you know 22 so I thought perfect you know so having only Cycle less than 20 miles
[02:44:43] I applied for the world record which no some people think it's quite arrogant
[02:44:47] But I thought in my head I said well no I I have that endurance
[02:44:51] Mindset if the knees not gonna be an issue then then why not why can't I do that?
[02:44:57] So I applied for the world record will record was 125 days at this point
[02:45:01] I mean six weeks later Guinness came back and said yes you've been successful on your application
[02:45:06] During this period someone else has already beaten the world record it's now 117 days that's not great
[02:45:12] So it already have to take eight days off my original plan
[02:45:16] So we mentioned Harry or Eddie which is perfect rolls into this so Harry and I you know we do a lot in charity stuff
[02:45:22] You know he's the common on my table
[02:45:24] I had an intelligence fusion cell based in Mozambique in Tanzania
[02:45:29] So you know these guys would give me in reports of where the ivory was going from Africa
[02:45:34] You know to the far east you know so I would be obviously pushing this information up the line the Harry who then began out
[02:45:40] So we're doing a lot in charity anyway, so I mean Guinness came back and I'm around him up. I said look
[02:45:46] I'm gonna cycle the world longest road and you know doing a world record what what should we do it and
[02:45:52] The
[02:45:53] This was 2016 so his brother and Kay and him were about a launch campaign in 2017 called heads together
[02:46:00] Which was a mental health campaign and in the military I'd seen it firsthand, you know some my friends, you know and but I wasn't aware
[02:46:08] How big an issue out of the hola society you know it's very much everyone talks about an hour days
[02:46:12] Be it from
[02:46:13] Post-natal depression young children teenagers all the way through
[02:46:17] So he said look could I do it for that campaign?
[02:46:20] I said yeah, Harry asked would you do it?
[02:46:22] You're not gonna say no I said yeah, of course
[02:46:24] So so it did that and then
[02:46:26] He then introduced me to the rule foundation who sort of deal with all their charity work and
[02:46:32] First you know you walk in the room and they're like the probably like I go one of Harry's mates
[02:46:36] I sat down and they said right first question is how much you look in the rays and I thought I want I want to keep them at the table
[02:46:43] I said a million pounds. I'll just shower it out and the but for me I wanted the norm entity of the challenge to reflect
[02:46:50] How much you know you can't go do like the L.A. Mariffin say you're gonna raise a million pounds
[02:46:54] That's that's the be
[02:46:56] Comparison
[02:46:57] That's it fine to sit on what's what's your message in?
[02:47:00] I was I was shit. I didn't fall about how are you just talking to come in here?
[02:47:03] I was I'm so I just thought about it. I said well physical activity
[02:47:07] Help sure mental state
[02:47:08] So I can't use that I said well why not?
[02:47:12] What's not been scientifically proven?
[02:47:14] So I said it's fine. I said but I don't need a scientist to tell me that I feel good when I'm
[02:47:18] Been physically active so I ignored them anyway and carried on promoting that and then obviously now
[02:47:22] It's very much recognized. Yeah, it's one of the COVID mechanisms. So so that was the birth of the the pan American highway challenge
[02:47:30] So I fell into it by accident and there's a lot of people doubted you because you had
[02:47:36] No experience on a bike
[02:47:38] You know these other people that are sat in these records. You know, they they that's what their life is their
[02:47:43] Experience racers and whatever else and you just decide yeah
[02:47:47] Watch this hold my beer
[02:47:49] We the sponsored my accident team we did a squat analysis that right at the beginning and it's it's strength
[02:47:54] It's a weakness is your opportunities and fresh and the only weakness it came about was my arrogance towards a cycling community
[02:48:00] Which I took as a strength and
[02:48:02] Actually, yeah cycling it evolved so much someone I was a young boy on a BMX and
[02:48:08] But for me it wasn't so much about the physical bit. I thought I'll deal with that on the time
[02:48:13] It was there was the planet you know one of the things we'd got in the military is that meticulous planning and the detail
[02:48:18] You know even in the Canadian embassy
[02:48:20] I thought if you have the right plan
[02:48:22] Then you just bring that in it you know, so I just took a military set of orders and put it on it
[02:48:27] And I just crossed out ammunition and that's when I started if started putting the plan together
[02:48:31] But I was taking experiences that I had in the military
[02:48:35] From before I'm sort of putting it into this challenge
[02:48:38] I love the phrase that you can't be experienced without experiences
[02:48:41] So I've had experiences before and then what how can I sort of
[02:48:44] Transferred out onto this so one thing we used to do in the special forces what I thought was it was great
[02:48:50] Not because like we're one of the best in the world is because we're always evolving we're always learning and always changing and
[02:48:56] When we come off the ground we just do a thing called a before we even go clean your weapons and add
[02:49:00] Minous self it is called a hot debrief
[02:49:02] You know while it's still fresh in your mind and the three questions that were posed were what worked?
[02:49:07] What didn't work and if we were gonna do that again, what will we do differently?
[02:49:12] So at the time I was reading magazines I was buying books about cycling
[02:49:16] You know, but I wasn't getting those
[02:49:19] Answers that I needed and I thought were the best people to speak to those
[02:49:22] I've done it before you you know they've been there they've been on that road
[02:49:26] They'll they'll be able to give me the answers
[02:49:28] So I did I reached out to the previous record holders and I just posed those three questions
[02:49:34] No, well getting all the information in all their issues they all all start in Alaska and finish in Argentina
[02:49:40] But all their issues are in south and central America so for me, I was up
[02:49:44] Well, why take a gamble with the second half?
[02:49:47] You know why not get you know beat bureaucracy the borders languages spare to your bice why not address those issues early
[02:49:54] Then when you get into America we can then reassess where we are so one of the things I was proud of is that I ignored everyone else
[02:50:00] And I turned on his head my start point was from from southern Argentina
[02:50:05] So that's that's how I came up with that plan
[02:50:08] But there you know there's a lot more to it than just grabbing a water bottle and a helmet cycling north
[02:50:13] You know, I mean when you're putting the plan in together
[02:50:16] You know I had a support team and a documentary team who are very much more risk of earths and myself
[02:50:20] You have to be considered in their welfare
[02:50:22] So there's things you that you don't really think about elections
[02:50:25] You know, what's the best time you're gonna go through a country in middle of elections and it's civil unrest
[02:50:30] What's it? What's gonna give you the most advantage season wise? You know there's there's so much
[02:50:34] Which is what we do in the military you know and that's what it was and um, so that's where the planning came from it's from what I
[02:50:41] I picked up before and then training wise. Yeah, I then you know
[02:50:45] Harry and I did a
[02:50:47] Did a little promo video together to promote the challenge and once cameras finished he said
[02:50:52] What training you're gonna do? That's it. Well, I'm gonna do lands in John Agro's lands in John Agro's is the southern point of England at Norm Scotland
[02:50:59] And because the pan American high was 15 at Mb to back so I said if I can't do what I was I gonna do 15
[02:51:07] So I said I'm gonna do that and he said what I do it with some of the members the Invictus games
[02:51:11] I said yeah of course again
[02:51:12] But I didn't want to do it with them and embarrass myself
[02:51:14] So I haven't only psyched three weeks
[02:51:17] I ran my mate and I said I'm gonna go do lands in John Agro's and everyone's at war
[02:51:23] You're not ready yet. You don't know young in being cycling. You're not bike fit
[02:51:26] And I thought bike fit was fitness. It's actually your measurements to your bike
[02:51:32] Yeah, so I just rolled me to yeah, yeah, yeah, so I'd set up from Cornmore with first two days was a huge storm storm
[02:51:40] Angus the third day I fell off my bike fractured my skate foie
[02:51:43] I got up to Scotland. It was the coldest it'd been in 10 years. It was minus 16
[02:51:50] I wrote off the first bike and my friend just went and bought one off the shelf
[02:51:53] I did everything completely wrong in in cycling world but for me if I couldn't do one how was I gonna do 15
[02:52:02] And and then we then did it six months later with these guys and I was bike fit
[02:52:07] I knew about cadence and things like that and I understand
[02:52:11] It might more than listen as in UK
[02:52:13] Is that lands in John Agro's is a is on a bucket list for cyclists but for me it was a training ride
[02:52:18] And I almost had to approach it in that manner
[02:52:21] Yeah, well, what I like about all this I mean, it's it's something I I've been saying to veterans for a long time
[02:52:29] Which is you know when you get out you got to find a new mission if you don't have a new mission
[02:52:32] That's when things start going sideways and you know for you your first new mission was doing the security stuff
[02:52:38] And you did that you attacked that and then all of a sudden you had to pull back from that to take care of your family
[02:52:43] You you tried the new mission of the cubicle and the drawings that you as you called them that that was an emission for you
[02:52:50] Then you got this in your head and now you had a new mission something to focus on something to do a positive thing and
[02:52:55] You know obviously takes moves you in the right direction. It's just it's a really great example of something that I say all the time that you actually executed
[02:53:05] This is an interesting section here
[02:53:08] It's called who dares win who dares wins and you got a you got an unexpected call and the call the guy says my name's Andrew Slater
[02:53:15] I'm a television producer and they had he had this idea. They're gonna take
[02:53:19] Special forces soldiers and gonna put civilians through some kind of a
[02:53:25] Form of some kind of selection and as he's doing this you know you're he's interested in having you be one of the guys
[02:53:34] And the question was has this been cleared through the MOD through the Ministry of Defense and
[02:53:41] You start running this up the chain of command and you're you know asking if this can happen or not
[02:53:46] And then you get this going to the book here a couple weeks later. I received the letter
[02:53:50] It wasn't exactly a pleasant memo from the MOD it cut straight to the point telling me to step away from the project immediately
[02:53:56] I read over the letter a couple of times to make sure I had everything straight
[02:54:00] But it was literally in black and white step away from the project or become persona non-grata
[02:54:08] Yeah, which is png. I mean you're not you're not welcome anymore
[02:54:12] Yeah, when it comes to decision making I always listened to my gut instinct and it was telling me loud and clear that I should
[02:54:19] comply with the MOD's wishes
[02:54:21] I was the SBS ambassador to Scotland and I enjoyed that role
[02:54:26] I enjoyed the SBS Association charity events
[02:54:29] I enjoyed being able to visit pool and heraford
[02:54:32] I had good mates still in both did I want to cut that away in the vein hope of becoming the next
[02:54:40] Jason Statham
[02:54:42] The answer was clear
[02:54:44] I can't do the show. I'm afraid mate. I told Andrew no worries. He said we thought this could be a problem
[02:54:51] Have you approached the MOD about the show? I asked him you're going to have the same problem with everyone unless the show gets cleared
[02:54:56] And you you go on you end up saying the show went ahead and as soon as it became public knowledge
[02:55:02] There was a shitstorm at the MOD and in heraford in pool
[02:55:05] The production company and the guys had pushed on without the MOD signing off in the SBS and SBS immediately cleared
[02:55:12] Declared them persona non-Gradah. They were not allowed to attend any association events or to be on camp
[02:55:18] To give you any idea of how seriously this was taken. I'd heard of a former general who was persona non-Gradah being
[02:55:25] Escored off camp in heraford from his own from his own friends wake
[02:55:31] I didn't want to see that happen to the guys, but it was their decision and not for me to question personally
[02:55:36] I felt that this sense of community was important for my own happiness
[02:55:40] And that wasn't worth giving up. I liked the lads. They're very close friends
[02:55:44] And so I felt for one of them later that year when I saw him at a black tie event held by the regiment
[02:55:51] He'd come as the guest of someone who is still serving but when the RSM saw him
[02:55:56] He was asked to leave. He was he looked absolutely gutted and
[02:56:00] Who am I to blame him? It wasn't many ways like being cast out of a family
[02:56:03] So it's interesting too because the reason that was interesting to me is well because then you you wrote this book
[02:56:10] Yeah, but obviously you clear this book through the ministry of defense
[02:56:14] I've written a
[02:56:15] I've written 49 books or whatever the numbers at this point and you know again
[02:56:19] It's always very you know
[02:56:22] I remember the conversations around when when I hadn't written a book and just saying like
[02:56:27] We're not gonna do anything that sheds any light that puts anything
[02:56:31] We don't have anything bad to say about the military about the seal teams like that's that's not what we're doing
[02:56:37] We're obviously not giving away any
[02:56:41] Information that could be useful at all to the enemy and
[02:56:45] You know, that's obviously of
[02:56:47] You know when when we ran these books when I ran these books through the chain of command
[02:56:53] You know we it was like direct comms with people that I knew and that were in the military and senior ranking positions
[02:56:59] And they read them and said yeah, these are good to go and you know I had a great
[02:57:04] senior officer
[02:57:06] Who said you know we're quiet professionals quiet professionals, but that doesn't mean we're silent professionals
[02:57:12] There's stories that need to be told there's lessons that need to be passed on so
[02:57:17] You know you look you can you never feel good about it because we're we're not
[02:57:21] We don't want the spotlight you're never gonna feel good about it
[02:57:25] And there's always gonna be guys that are gonna look at you and say oh, you know
[02:57:28] There you are in the spotlight and that they're they're totally I understand them because I was that guy too
[02:57:35] And so I get it and there's that's just the reality of the situation
[02:57:41] But it was interesting to see how you had to go through that and and make those decisions yourself
[02:57:47] Yeah, I think I think to me at the time when when Andrew came up you know
[02:57:51] You're name keeps coming up as a fine and
[02:57:53] And I there was an old documentary years ago at S.E. S.U. tough enough
[02:57:58] It was a massive failure and I was like oh god, it's all I had him head was visions of that
[02:58:01] So it went on and ended up being one of the most successful film
[02:58:06] Episode on on channel 4 and the two guys I got on it
[02:58:09] You know one of them he just come out you know
[02:58:11] He got kicked out the military and he went to prison, you know for him
[02:58:15] You know there was no other of our option for him
[02:58:17] So here was a life line and then the other guy
[02:58:20] And Foxy I'll say it was Foxy he he had post-might stress
[02:58:24] So but he had post-might stress because his time served in the special forces he couldn't work in the private security sector for so for them guys
[02:58:31] It fitted perfect for them. You know they they had a means of income for me at the time
[02:58:36] It didn't work because I was smuggling people across borders
[02:58:40] You know I was a really you know close relationship with Harry you know so at the time it then didn't look right that you were on TV
[02:58:47] Say it wasn't you can't do it. It's not because as you touch on it people can learn from the military and and these sort of in a great for that
[02:58:56] What upset the military with this was that they filmed it and then flanked them
[02:59:02] You know so I've maybe not get my book out and things that you know
[02:59:06] I'm still part of the group and I do charity work
[02:59:10] But I've been transparent in everything I do and they understand
[02:59:13] I think it was just the way that they've gone about it in the fact that they caught them out by by surprise
[02:59:18] But for the for the two guys that I got on the show
[02:59:22] You know they've now got successful careers in that and they would probably if they didn't have this show
[02:59:27] They'd probably really be struggling you know coming out prison having post-might
[02:59:30] It says but obviously the military also need to understand that it's a different world
[02:59:35] You know social media. You know for me when I was in it was a taboo I was talking about before you know
[02:59:41] You know is a way of communicating and obviously as long as you don't give away certain things
[02:59:47] Then you can there's nothing that you can't get from the internet and I say and a lot of it is actually jealousy
[02:59:53] You know a lot of it is actually jealousy from those stillings because they're not in that position
[02:59:58] That they can they can do that but for me at the time
[03:00:01] I just it just didn't didn't fit right
[03:00:06] I'm gonna fast forward a little bit you know you
[03:00:08] You
[03:00:10] You're just training and you're fundraising and you're getting ready and you're doing all these taking all these skills
[03:00:16] That you learn from the military for planning and endurance and mindset and you and you get to a point where you're you're gonna launch this thing and
[03:00:26] You know you're you're supported on the ground. This is just so you you mentioned it
[03:00:30] But you're supported on the ground by a sports massage therapist a bike mechanic a medic a two-man camera crew
[03:00:35] That would be gathering footage to make a documentary about the event. It was a big team, but with the exception of the documentary crew
[03:00:42] Everyone was doing it pro bono so wasn't a huge strain on our sponsors
[03:00:47] um
[03:00:50] And then finally we get to shortly after dawn on a one February
[03:00:55] 2018
[03:00:56] I went with my team to the starting point of the pan American highway
[03:00:59] I had 22,000 kilometers ahead of me and 110 days to do it
[03:01:03] No crowds no big send off
[03:01:06] Start freaking pedaling
[03:01:08] Yeah
[03:01:10] And you you you you you cover a lot of this in the book
[03:01:15] You know talking about what what that's actually like what is what you're going through the wind the crashes the traffic the heat the cold
[03:01:23] The illness the
[03:01:25] Just the mayhem you know you you talked about you go through four seasons while you do that you go through all four seasons
[03:01:31] and
[03:01:33] So then you you you you're making progress
[03:01:36] Um
[03:01:38] And then what one time I'm going to the book here. I got instantly worried when I stopped for lunch and saw
[03:01:42] I missed four calls from Alana usually she would just leave me a message asked me to call her back
[03:01:48] I worried that something had gone wrong with the funding for the challenge or were still that something was up with Molly or Tommy your kids
[03:01:55] I Face time to what's wrong I asked what do you wear to a royal wedding Alana said?
[03:02:00] I had no idea what she was talking about what do you mean?
[03:02:03] What do you wear to a royal wedding she said again then lifted up a card so I could see it Alana and I had been invited to Harry and Megan's wedding
[03:02:12] I didn't see that one coming. I told her honestly Harry was a mate but a royal wedding isn't for a few beers in the local
[03:02:18] When is it Alana smiled she knew that I'd know the date was
[03:02:23] The date I was due to finish in Alaska off by heart
[03:02:26] 19th of May she said and I heard myself grown
[03:02:30] That was four days earlier than I was expected
[03:02:33] Expecting to break the world record the last flight you can catch is on day 102
[03:02:38] You better put your foot down
[03:02:41] So you get the invite to go to the big wedding
[03:02:43] Yeah, so the will record was 117 days and when I was doing my plan in I thought you know
[03:02:50] This certain contingencies those things that are out your control bit natural disasters
[03:02:54] Coos and things that so far by encounter any of them on the challenge you know I don't want to eat into the challenge
[03:03:00] So my target was 110 days and it's because we had that that fun
[03:03:05] So give yourself seven days of budget I gave myself seven days of seven days of budget should it be something out there control was an eating into the record time
[03:03:12] It was eating into that and then I done all my planning on that you know
[03:03:16] I think called the Bible you know a new every inch of the road we'd we'd planned it out had on paper had it on digital
[03:03:21] We know South America I did it in 48 days. It will record was 58 days
[03:03:27] So I took 10 days off the first will record and as you touched on there, you know
[03:03:30] You had food poisoning you had everything else but those things that I didn't see as well
[03:03:36] You know when I was putting the plans together
[03:03:37] No the medic I had to send home you know it was not in the book
[03:03:40] You know, but I had to send the medic home on day 13 because it was bullying the documentary is like my god
[03:03:46] The bike ride was actually easier than managing egos egos
[03:03:50] You know because they're pro bono they all started wanting one in more from the challenge as they saw it evolving and thankfully my wife was a campaign direct
[03:03:57] She was sort of managing keeping control of that we got to
[03:04:01] I've talked about you know
[03:04:03] Going from South to North that was a great decision from a side-con perspective. I've got
[03:04:07] Tailwind all the way through prudus two thousand five hundred kilometers tailwind
[03:04:10] But every checkpoint every border we're having this swap vehicles. It's that was slowing us down
[03:04:15] So the plan was to have an RV and a four by four
[03:04:18] Ship from Fort Lauderdale of two to Panama
[03:04:21] So then when we did the second part of the challenge that would take us all the way to Alaska
[03:04:25] I was in Ecuador and my wife who rang me instead of the vehicles haven't
[03:04:30] Got onto the shipping container. She's that cry
[03:04:32] So thankfully my wife and my PA and two my mates had four side they flew over to Fort Lauderdale
[03:04:38] And they drove the vehicles four thousand miles in eight days my wife left the kids and mother's day
[03:04:43] Back in UK and they drove it all the way to Panama I broke the wheel record in the morning flew across the Daringup and they just handed the keys over
[03:04:51] You know so the integral part of this challenge you know people see you on social media
[03:04:56] It's the team around you that it don't see
[03:04:59] We then get to Mexico and the mechanic and the soft tissue therapists
[03:05:02] Like these are new terms and conditions. I'm now
[03:05:05] Project manager. We're gonna change the name to this
[03:05:08] Oh, there we go. You know, and this has been going on flight nearly two months now. They said you can't do this with ours
[03:05:14] I left them in prebloos
[03:05:15] See hold my beer. Yeah, oh my beer my mate then drove the RV and then we we just pushed on it
[03:05:20] We didn't have a mechanic but we weren't far from the American border
[03:05:24] So when I got to the American border I got the American border on day 70 and I was 14 days ahead of the wheel record
[03:05:29] I didn't realize
[03:05:31] How important it was getting to America. I don't know where it was because
[03:05:34] Everyone spoke our language. I wasn't on Google translate for the last two and half months
[03:05:38] You know the culinary options were better or probably because the previous record holders
[03:05:44] All their issues were in south and central of I left all that behind me
[03:05:47] We're now it should be a smooth road and also the fact that if there is any mechanical issues
[03:05:52] We can just get another mechanic you know we can find a massage part
[03:05:55] And that was the hardest thing for my wife trying to find a massage part
[03:05:58] It was the right massage part
[03:06:00] So getting into America was that 14 days ahead perfect and then I had that phone call
[03:06:06] Yeah, which is great, but I
[03:06:08] Was now going into that phone call was 14 days ahead 10 minutes late. I'm now a day behind
[03:06:14] So all that effort so I've done up until then all that drama has not let it meant nothing is like
[03:06:20] You've now got a new objective
[03:06:22] So cycling in South America
[03:06:24] Because obviously the sports team and documentary mainstream being risk adverse you know had to consider them so I had to cycle from first light to last light
[03:06:31] And that was it and I was off the road again in South America
[03:06:34] It's a lot more safe so I could cycle at night and I got to love it in Texas the next day and I
[03:06:40] 60 mile an hour winds and tornadoes. I was grounded for another
[03:06:44] In other 24 hours. I was now two days behind my new target so
[03:06:50] Again, I just looked at the plan look to the paperwork
[03:06:52] And as an app on your phone call windy TV it's quite popular with sailors and it gives you the strength and directions of the winds forecasted every hour
[03:07:00] for the next two weeks about 95% accurate. It's 95%
[03:07:04] That 95% is a great it's a great app yeah and it was known as my second wife on this because I was just always looking at windy TV
[03:07:10] So for me to get out a little bit at a cycle 340 miles in 36 hours to miss the next weather winter and
[03:07:16] And that's why I did with North America. I just played chess with mother nature
[03:07:19] Through North America and majority of cycling was done at night because you know the winds
[03:07:24] Yeah less wind got to Cheyenne picked up the 50 mile an hour tailwind
[03:07:29] So I covered 260 miles in the 11 hours cycling so I was also using it to my advantage
[03:07:34] So I I gained up that time I had about 17 days originally on of me
[03:07:39] I did it in 11 a half and I thought perfect and then we got to a town called White Horse
[03:07:44] But a week outside from the end on the four
[03:07:46] You know wheel record secure I'm going it's wedding unless I get eaten by a grizzly
[03:07:51] And then this gentleman's this guy's come on on social media that day professional cyclist
[03:07:56] He's already got free other endurance wheel records mid-twenties sponsored by all the big brands Red Bull
[03:08:01] And he's he's announced that he's gonna do the pan American highway in August
[03:08:05] Be the first man to do 100 days. So that's great
[03:08:08] So every time I thought I had met my objective, you know it then moved
[03:08:12] But thankfully for me if I'd known about that start the challenge if I'd known about the wedding known about this guy
[03:08:19] You know I may not have pushed I may have pushed myself too hard
[03:08:22] But thankfully me when I received that information I was in a position
[03:08:26] That I could act on it. So yeah, I cycle for you know the last two days
[03:08:31] I had 250 miles to do and it's Dalton's highway. It's where to film ice truckers
[03:08:36] It's that road there and I thought well I did 250 I do 150 miles today
[03:08:41] And a hundred miles on the last day and then I'm in my family of my wife my kids are on on the on this oil field in Prudo Bay at the end
[03:08:49] So I know there are only a couple of days away
[03:08:52] Did the first 50 miles and I got this roadblock at noon and the guilt was that no you can't pass the late of clock tonight
[03:09:00] So so that evening that's a rest for eight hours and you're not resting and I just cycled from eight o'clock that night
[03:09:08] 7 o'clock the next night 200 miles in minus 18 to make sure that came in in 99 days and 12 hours
[03:09:15] So I talk about
[03:09:17] the importance of planning but actually
[03:09:20] The success of this was being reactive to the situation on the ground
[03:09:24] You have a plan that's great you have a start point you have an objective
[03:09:27] But you know things change is you know
[03:09:30] It's best planning will survive first contact and and that's what it was it's been no reactive to that situation and that even to the very last day
[03:09:38] I was having to change change the plan
[03:09:40] Yeah, even that even when you talked about the fudge factor which some people would have planned that and just had okay
[03:09:46] I got to be doing
[03:09:48] 225 days or 123 days cool that's what they're gonna book they don't understand all the things
[03:09:53] The amount of room that gives you to make those adaptations when you need to is again
[03:09:58] That's something we learn about the
[03:10:00] Things are not going to go smooth that's one big I can promise you
[03:10:05] Um
[03:10:06] I'm gonna read one more thing out of the book here
[03:10:08] Athletes talk a lot about visualization and how they had imagined their final moment of victory again and again and again
[03:10:15] I'd done the same but now that I drew close to the finish line my moment was nothing like I had ever imagined it
[03:10:21] This was no ride along the Shoms to Leize with me leaning back in the seat with my hands in the air
[03:10:26] I clung on to my handlebars for dear life hitting one patch of black eyes after another my face was covered in frozen
[03:10:35] Snot my muscles were shaking from fatigue and cold and every blast of Arctic wind cut through me to the bone
[03:10:43] But I made it
[03:10:48] And there you go you skid it to the finish line. I pulled my wife and kids into a hug
[03:10:52] I was so exhausted that I probably can't remember what I said
[03:10:54] I was probably talking gibberish
[03:10:57] But I'd miss them all so much and they got big kisses from their dad's cracked lips
[03:11:02] Molly was aware of what was going on and full of beans but Tommy was in the world of his own
[03:11:07] I thought it was I thought it must be hallucinating when I saw the lady from Guinness was
[03:11:12] Braving the cold in tights in a skirt
[03:11:14] But there wasn't one ounce of discomfort on her face as she presented me with my record
[03:11:18] I was now the record holder for the fastest cycle of the Pan American Highway completing it 99 days
[03:11:23] Which also made me the first person to ever do it on in under a hundred
[03:11:28] a hug my wife
[03:11:29] But unlike in car to Hena
[03:11:31] This wasn't the place to stand around for a post certificate photo shoot
[03:11:35] Let's get to the hotel. I told my family and team as we piled into vehicles leaving the frost bit in finish line behind us
[03:11:45] So you made it and
[03:11:47] But that's not the end that's not the end it's not the end of the book and it's definitely
[03:11:53] Definitely not the end of the path that you're on right now because
[03:11:59] You need it a new mission right?
[03:12:01] Yeah
[03:12:02] Tell us what's up what's your next challenge where you get where you had next?
[03:12:05] Yeah, so my U.S.P is you know, I take a sport or discipline. I've never done before and find a bit of this child
[03:12:11] A biggest challenge so I've been arrogant towards a cycling community. It's now going to be the kayaking community so the next challenge is to
[03:12:18] Kayak the river now the world's longest river from source to sea so it's never been done before
[03:12:23] So unlike there where I can speak to previous record holders it's not been done before so
[03:12:29] The plan was obviously to do it last year. Obviously COVID's you know, put a scupper to that and that's why I'm here in America
[03:12:35] Whilst the world is paused let's get over here get set up and get ready for that
[03:12:39] So yeah 4,280 miles but you know unlike truckers and and support team you got a worry
[03:12:45] I've got crocodiles hippos civil war in South Sudan but one thing I'm excited about this challenge
[03:12:51] You know I talk about we talked about the successful private security missions
[03:12:55] You know everyone's quite quick to tarnish certain communities you know with one brush what they see with with TV
[03:13:02] You know
[03:13:03] If it wasn't for those local communities being so hospitable I would never been in success
[03:13:07] Well on them and that's where they African now is going to be great because it's I'm going to have to rely on the locals to help me and so
[03:13:14] You know it's not a real record whatever I do is the world record
[03:13:19] But one of the so that's the next challenge
[03:13:22] But one of the big feedbacks on the book is yes great endurance, but you are the security guru
[03:13:28] Why you still not in this industry so for me I've I've got a niche security company you know very low key
[03:13:35] We help either corporates. I'll try and it works and things that because
[03:13:40] Paddling in cycling doesn't put food on the table and the wife keeps reminding me
[03:13:44] So but yeah, so I've set a date first the February next year and we set off on that
[03:13:50] So you've got a team you know obviously that's doing the security work under your guidance
[03:13:55] So what's the how do people getting getting contact with you for that type of business?
[03:13:59] So we you know originally I wasn't going to have a website and things like that
[03:14:02] But you know we will have a website this password protected because for me the my approach to security is
[03:14:08] You know that there's certain ways of security up my as is more intelligent space
[03:14:11] You know you have the private element you know we then have the intelligence side of it and then and then the cyber
[03:14:16] You know we don't you know I don't normally walk around with type black t-shirts with tattoos
[03:14:21] You know we blend in and things that and it's just having that approach that I've used before
[03:14:27] Um, so yeah, you go in my website you can get in touch with them, but the new websites get in bill
[03:14:33] And that's what I've been doing this last four months is set up the business preparing for the Nile
[03:14:37] And your website is
[03:14:41] Dean stopped I was calling you Dean Scott. I'm sure you've been called that a million times
[03:14:44] I was calling I was calling you Dean start or Dean Scott my wife was calling you Dean Scott
[03:14:49] So it's Dean start STOTTT dot com
[03:14:53] That's it is where we can find you also you're on Facebook Dean STOTS BS
[03:15:00] You're on Instagram
[03:15:01] Which I go only calls the gram at Dean's stop
[03:15:06] It's real quick on the Nile
[03:15:09] What's what's like the major
[03:15:11] Challenges there what's the what's the what's the what's the hardest level rapids they have there so merch is in fools
[03:15:18] Is it most powerful? What for and will it's grade six?
[03:15:21] Great six what for but the problem you have with the what for there is the they take the the crocodiles and the hippos from late Victorian put them in mercenaries
[03:15:28] So when you come down there they're all in the in the pools at the bottom so
[03:15:33] Originally when we're going to do it if it were record this it I you can only use one boat
[03:15:37] That's just not going to be feasible in a ninety three percent and Nile's quite flat so we'll use like almost like a ski
[03:15:43] To go on that but then use a creek boat for grades free to fall and then a raft
[03:15:48] We'll have to use a raft on on someone who's big ones are you going to have like a sniper overwatch for
[03:15:54] Crocodiles yeah
[03:15:55] There's going to be a guy coming a guy called Peter Meridiff actually he's he watched his friend get at by a crock
[03:16:00] Koyakin in the DRC, you know, so he knows in Nile inside out
[03:16:04] You know, he's talking about throwing stones. I'm thinking to use them for something a bit more powerful
[03:16:08] But local lies you know
[03:16:10] I want to bring as many locals in as I can because
[03:16:13] Especially the fishermen they know them more ways better than anyone so if this crocks and hippos in that pool
[03:16:19] I'll just portage it
[03:16:20] I'm going to paddle through or walk walk around it
[03:16:24] Message wise, you know, we one thing we're passionate about as modern-slave in human trafficking and we're thinking of
[03:16:30] Using this challenge to promote that but then that sort of
[03:16:33] Channels engine just one campaign the great thing about the Nile is you know, it's the lifeline of Africa
[03:16:38] We can talk about poverty pollution
[03:16:40] COVID, you know, so we're going to talk about the so many so many things along the the challenge
[03:16:47] Do you have a date plan to launch that first of February? I self oh dang next year
[03:16:53] One year yeah
[03:16:56] You have to have a start point. I genuinely you have to have a start point. We've done other a start point
[03:17:02] Then the start point becomes never yeah comes never keeps moving to the right you have a start point and many can start approach
[03:17:08] In sponsors and start working back from that so it gives me a year now to train at new port of Quaggs and uh and uh
[03:17:15] You know when look out you know get a get sponsorship
[03:17:18] The book is called relentless
[03:17:21] That the
[03:17:22] subtitle is from sbs to world record breaker
[03:17:28] Echo you got anything else? How's your leg?
[03:17:32] Yeah, so when I actually started the the training now I went to see a doctor and you know
[03:17:37] I would test him the string from my quads and my hamstring. I mean it was it was him that identified you know your leg is too
[03:17:43] Keylo's light. Oh that really
[03:17:45] When I sit off into challenge I got the muscle
[03:17:48] Mass back my hamstring was 18% less power but you know it's it's still good. No we're good to go. So
[03:17:55] Do the bother you like day like day to day can stuff? No no I you know
[03:18:00] Jo that my wife didn't marry me could have looked like lands on some or Chris Fremor try not going like
[03:18:05] Chris often as a can but you know for me any and I still try and push you push on the bike now and then
[03:18:12] Crazy yeah the
[03:18:15] I mean it's awesome it's awesome what you've done to support these charities as well the heads together and and
[03:18:21] I'm sure you're gonna support some some awesome charities for this next event
[03:18:24] Patta little nile hopefully you won't support the charity of uh free food for hippos
[03:18:30] rocks
[03:18:32] But uh yeah people can get this book on the art we'll put a link for it on the website and
[03:18:39] Awesome you got any final any final thoughts Dean? No I think you know when you see the website
[03:18:44] You'll see the frogman and everyone's out why the frog Macno you always got the question
[03:18:47] Know what's the difference between you and the other guys and I'm going back to my original one
[03:18:52] The my reason for going SPS because I thought no they're all divers and they weren't I ended up being
[03:18:57] the number one frogman so for me I'm not I'm not a cyclist I love I love the water
[03:19:03] So we we have the nile and then another one which jockey more welcome a commonite's called surfing with pirates
[03:19:08] Gonna surf to Somali coastline oh yeah that's not surfing with pirates that's surfing with sharks
[03:19:15] Exactly but again it's promoting these these countries and you know
[03:19:19] Amazing countries as well but obviously being as close to the water as I can yeah
[03:19:24] I'm gamer I'd never got a chance to go into Somalia south off the coast of Somalia for months and months and then in the 90s waiting to go in
[03:19:31] I never got the chance so I didn't get to go operate
[03:19:33] I'll get some barrels let's let's rock and all but there's there's breaks and beaches with no names actually
[03:19:38] So the plan is to you know from the north to the south but you know again people see what they see on TV
[03:19:43] And make it there are some strange straight away when I was in Mogadish you again
[03:19:46] I work on my own and work with a locals and I was like spear fishing for lobsters and and everyone and you want think you're in Mogadish
[03:19:52] But because it hasn't been
[03:19:54] commercially fish for years as a huge abundance of wildlife as well. Yeah, I think my wife
[03:20:00] Anyone you you pick it up when you when you read the book you know
[03:20:04] It's a team effort you know my transition
[03:20:07] From the military
[03:20:09] I wouldn't have been as smooth it wasn't for my wife
[03:20:11] We're very much we know our strengths and weaknesses no my wife can't ride a bike no I can
[03:20:15] But my wife is very good at all all the planning and I and
[03:20:18] She was key to success success of the challenge and the success of my time in the security
[03:20:25] I generally believe that anyone can break a will record if you take away all those distractions
[03:20:30] You know the business the mortgage you know who's looking after the kids and that's what Alana does
[03:20:35] Really well and and then again my my young children of you know
[03:20:40] 9 and 4 I saw a joke that when my my son or it was two and a half
[03:20:44] The challenge when we finished the challenge you know
[03:20:48] The challenge was older than my son something you just thought I was the cyclist
[03:20:52] And my daughter she was born after I left the military so when I tell her that you know dad was the soldiers
[03:20:57] She said you were an assortious and my son things are a cyclist and my daughter things are my water me
[03:21:03] So I sort of joke about that but again, you know they're very they're very much look up to my
[03:21:08] Mom and dad, you know and they travel everywhere with us and they've been all over the world in our Alaska South America and Australia and things that are so very lucky to have that
[03:21:16] I think people think once you have children, that's it. She'll travel in days over, you know, don't let them dictate you know your life
[03:21:23] Well awesome all
[03:21:25] Thanks again for coming on and and
[03:21:28] Thank you for your service and and great Britain
[03:21:32] has always been
[03:21:33] Our strongest ally and and we as nations have been through hell and back together
[03:21:40] In multiple wars and we know we can count on you in our darkest hour
[03:21:46] So thanks for coming on sharing some of that with us and
[03:21:50] Good luck. Thank you. Thanks for watching out for those hippos
[03:21:56] And with that
[03:21:58] Dean stop has left the building
[03:22:00] Talking about his incredibly incredible journey
[03:22:05] Pretty crazy stories
[03:22:09] The the relentless pursuit of perfection
[03:22:13] Yeah, it's even writes about that in the book
[03:22:16] A lot I only read it once today, but it's in there quite a few times that mindset the special the British special forces mindset of the
[03:22:23] relentless pursuit of perfection
[03:22:25] Awesome to have him on here and
[03:22:27] Thanks Dean for coming on and echo Charles yes, sir speaking of
[03:22:34] A relentless pursuit of perfection
[03:22:38] You have any suggestions that could maybe enable our
[03:22:43] Relantless pursuit of perfection. We're not gonna get there by the way. Yeah, but we're gonna pursue it. Yeah
[03:22:50] I will say facilitate okay. I said enable enable for some and facilitate for sure
[03:22:55] Okay, look with you are are all of us trying to break Guinness
[03:23:00] World records for the book we are not
[03:23:03] Maybe not no fact actually not every not everyone currently
[03:23:07] Just actually can say that but we're on a path though we're on our own path
[03:23:11] Right, not path is not easy. That's why we're on it
[03:23:14] In fact if it's easy, is it even a path really not really no
[03:23:19] I guess technically it's the path of least resistance. Yes, watch out for that
[03:23:23] That's the different kind of we know that it leads downhill that path and we take it
[03:23:26] Yeah, it's looking for that path. We're not looking for it. We're not on it. We're not even that's not our jam in any way
[03:23:32] But the path that we are on is hard
[03:23:35] Obstacles pitfalls and traps and wise men once said but on that path you're gonna endure or you have to endure some sort of pain
[03:23:45] In your joints
[03:23:47] Depends on what you're doing obviously, but most people are gonna enjoy that. Yes, endure
[03:23:52] Yeah, and look that I'm not saying you should worry about that and in fact if you really don't want to worry about that
[03:23:57] Guess what Jacob has some supplements?
[03:23:59] How about that?
[03:24:01] For you joints okay, we got John. I think there's anyone that's curious about how you're gonna bring it all together
[03:24:05] Oh, you know if I like oh here it comes you got oh there he did he did it again
[03:24:09] Hey look wherever you're trying to sensationalize these things to make them sensational
[03:24:13] Okay, hopefully I don't think there's anything sensational about it. Here's the deal
[03:24:16] You don't want to have joint issues
[03:24:19] No, so you want to do things that take care of your joints. Yes, by joints. I mean shoulder
[03:24:24] elbow
[03:24:26] Me neck whatever you want to call it if it's a joint in your body you don't want it to give you with issues
[03:24:33] You don't want that no, so that's why we made joint warfare
[03:24:37] Go to war against that
[03:24:39] That
[03:24:42] And cruel oil by the way super cruel oil. Yes. Yeah, so now we don't even have to worry about that
[03:24:47] Can stuff so there's a lot of things that you should be concerned about on this path
[03:24:52] Distraction
[03:24:53] Temptation if you will
[03:24:55] Your friends sometimes and let's face it you're joint you don't want to want to have to worry about that
[03:25:00] And stuff take the joint warfare every day
[03:25:03] With the super cruel oil every day and you will not have to worry about that can stuff yeah
[03:25:08] That's how it works get the subscription. Yeah, so check it out. We are trying to
[03:25:12] Make things easier so you can stay on the path more
[03:25:18] So right now everything at jock of fuel if you subscribe to it
[03:25:22] Then the shipping is free and look we obviously
[03:25:26] We are we understand that there's people that don't want to give their money to some giant companies
[03:25:32] This is part of it also
[03:25:34] So they don't want to give money to giant companies but big sometimes big giant companies ship stuff for free because they got this mass
[03:25:40] You know economy's the scales and stuff we understand that
[03:25:43] We understand that so if you go to joccofuel.com and you subscribe to anything we're gonna ship it to you for free
[03:25:49] You don't have to give your money to some big giant company
[03:25:51] You don't have to do that. It's fine
[03:25:55] We're here joccofuel.com
[03:25:57] Subscribe get joint warfare get super krill get discipline get vitamin D3
[03:26:03] for your immune system get cold warfare any of these things milk
[03:26:07] Multi-flavors
[03:26:09] Multi-flavors
[03:26:11] I just rotated milk. What you're going to milk shake what you go from
[03:26:17] The peanut butter one okay, but no I too I
[03:26:20] Rotated no not the flavors are rotated into a daily or more specifically a nightly got it probably put a banana in there
[03:26:27] I think that's how for
[03:26:29] indefinitely that's just how right now get the kids on board. My kids are all about these different
[03:26:35] Additives you know yeah
[03:26:37] I'm good. Oh yeah, I'm all cold. Can you get a subscription for the discipline? Can's yes you can't
[03:26:44] Yeah, yep, that's what we're doing yeah, so the discipline can's that's for like us who kind of like are kind of down for the energy drinks
[03:26:51] scenario but are not down for the toxicity sugar and all these bad elements that
[03:26:58] Most of the time come with energy drinks. That's what this is. We'll do cover the energy drinks unless you get these energy drinks
[03:27:04] Exactly right and that's exactly my point. So guess the discipline go in a can there's also powder there's also pills you can also get this stuff you can get the cans at wall wall
[03:27:14] And you can get all the stuff at the vitamin shop as well
[03:27:17] And also if you are doing jiu-jitsu, which is recommended?
[03:27:21] Look, this you want to talk about something you're never going to be you're never going to achieve perfection in
[03:27:25] Jiu-jitsu is definitely one of them, but it's going to help you in a lot of different aspects
[03:27:29] If you're going to do jiu-jitsu go to originmain.com get yourself a geek get yourself a rash card and since you can't wear a geek or a rash
[03:27:36] Guard where you can John Donner her representing the rash guard in the supermarket he doesn't care all day all day all day
[03:27:43] So what are you going to wear in your legs right?
[03:27:46] Are you going to wear ghee pants to the supermarket?
[03:27:50] low probability low probability how about you wear a pair of jeans cool origin jeans made in America
[03:27:56] origin sweatshirts made in America
[03:27:58] This is all origin
[03:28:00] Beanie's
[03:28:01] Whatever all made in America boots. I hear some new stuff coming out with the boots scenario
[03:28:06] I'm no I'm in no position to talk about it, but I hear good things from a you know Pete
[03:28:12] Call on money. We're trying to make stuff happen. That's for sure
[03:28:15] Originmain.com all kinds of American made products where we are bringing manufacturing back to America
[03:28:22] Get some it's true also jocco as a store so jocco store.com is where you can get this link equals freedom
[03:28:30] stuff shirts, hoodies hats like that kind of stuff
[03:28:34] So we got this political freedom. We got good. We got stand by to get someone got get after anyway
[03:28:38] Like I said jocco store.com
[03:28:40] That's where um
[03:28:42] If you see something cool on there that you want to represent
[03:28:46] While you're on this path that's where you get it 100% we also have
[03:28:49] Something formerly known as the t-shirt club
[03:28:53] Really a club I guess it's just it's a it's a solid kind of is a club to me honest with you, but it's called the shirt locker
[03:29:01] New shirt every month home by new you don't mean like oh, it's just a new shirt. It's a new design
[03:29:07] It's kind of and okay. I'm gonna use a word. I'm gonna use it exclusive because you can't get it on the store otherwise
[03:29:13] You seem saying so you sign up for this so people that are like really into the game in the game on the path
[03:29:19] Representing hard for yes, that's it. So yes jocco store.com also subscribe to this podcast
[03:29:27] And you can do that wherever you get a podcast. I'm gonna say have jocco unraveling which which I can tell you
[03:29:36] Dairals in the house where we're on it. I apologize has been a while
[03:29:39] Dairals wrapping up a bunch of stuff in his world and so now we're gonna get back in the game there grounded podcast
[03:29:45] We're am I even making claims on that?
[03:29:48] I know we're we're not making okay. Yeah, where your kid podcast. I will make claims on I owe that one will get on it
[03:29:56] You can also join us at the underground
[03:30:00] Underground is where we're putting some alternative podcast maybe some amplifying
[03:30:04] Informations a little behind the scenes. We're gonna do a Q&A. You were just tell me about some Q&A. What people can send video questions?
[03:30:10] Yeah audio audio or video questions and you might be like actually featured like on it like your voice
[03:30:16] So you know clear your throat, so mid-um boom
[03:30:20] Yeah, I'll make an announcement on where to send them
[03:30:24] Yeah on what like a Twitter Instagram scenario something like that you'll know yeah you'll know
[03:30:30] Um and and this is all from jocco underground.com and look it's cost eight dollars and 18 cents a month
[03:30:37] This is the platform that we control
[03:30:41] So there's no
[03:30:42] Buddy that's gonna tell us what to do no sponsors are gonna tell us what do you know platform is gonna tell us what to do
[03:30:46] We're gonna do what we want to do regardless and it's eight dollars and 18 cents a month and if you can't afford that that's okay
[03:30:52] We're not here to gouge
[03:30:54] No, if you can't afford it email assistance at jocco underground.com and that's a little idea that I heard from Sam Harris Sam Harris same thing
[03:31:05] Can't afford it cool. He we're not I'm not trying to hold back information
[03:31:09] Actually trying to keep information free flowing because if something ever happens to these platforms
[03:31:14] We're gonna need something somewhere to go we'll have it a little contingency plan is an action
[03:31:18] So appreciate the support over there
[03:31:20] There also we do have a YouTube channel
[03:31:25] It's for the video version this podcast when see what everybody looks like and see what Dean looks like
[03:31:30] Dean's stop
[03:31:32] See by the way if you want to see what Dean's stop looks like you want to see these you can check it out
[03:31:38] Well, I'm so max herps on there. Yeah, and also I do a lot
[03:31:42] I do a lot of work as the assistant director with a lot of these videos
[03:31:47] So if you see something you like just let me know that you enjoyed my assistant directing
[03:31:52] I feel like we all kind of enjoyed your 10
[03:31:56] List of 10 things that you utilize on the daily business
[03:32:00] What I think I think that was kind of a cool little hit that you guys kind of you know
[03:32:06] I mentioned that my daughter kind of drove the
[03:32:09] The spirit behind that and people think I think people think that that meant that she made it
[03:32:17] She kind of did she well she did, but I don't know editing oh she get she get director
[03:32:22] Criminals yeah, yeah, I do a lot of assistant directing
[03:32:31] Also origin USA has a little YouTube channel you can check that out if you want to keep it updated as to what it's like to grow a business
[03:32:37] Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah, they put all kinds of cool stuff on their main tie yeah, yeah, pee
[03:32:44] Be little they're up there getting after it you know what it's kind of like like
[03:32:48] You know when you go to work like let's say you go to work every day and you kind of let's say I don't know you're a manager
[03:32:52] I don't know whatever you go to work every day and you kind of get updated when you go in about okay
[03:32:56] What's currently going on what's the status of this what's it's kind of like that when you when you watch like the YouTube things
[03:33:01] Or sorry, the the origin YouTube channel origin HD yeah, that's the one right or it's an HD
[03:33:08] That's what I watch all the yeah the interesting thing is like if you watch a reality television show
[03:33:13] What they do is they take a bunch of people with like weird personalities
[03:33:16] Yeah, I'm not saying all cases, but this is kind of a stereotypical thing take a bunch of people and then they can fight with each other
[03:33:22] About whatever right yeah and to create drama for your TV show and then people watch it because they like to watch a train wreck
[03:33:28] The thing that's cool about about what we're doing at origin when you see behind the scenes. It's not
[03:33:33] It's not the team fighting with the team. It's like hey, how are we gonna make this work?
[03:33:38] Yeah, how are we gonna get the right materials? How are we gonna get this in production?
[03:33:41] How are we gonna satisfy this this clients that we've got or the customers? How are we gonna take care of them?
[03:33:46] So it's that it's that struggle. It's not a struggle against there's no there's no like a reality television drama
[03:33:53] Yeah, the producer like and this is what they do by the way from what I hear
[03:33:57] I don't like I watch this kind of stuff
[03:33:59] But I hear that they'll be like hey like there's little writers there
[03:34:04] That'll be like hey look we're gonna send these people on a trip
[03:34:08] To the Bahamas and hey you like you got to you got to say that you don't want to go because of what this lady said
[03:34:15] Like last month on Instagram or something like this and you better tell her and we'll just see how it plays out kind of a thing
[03:34:21] See and just like your point though how wack that is well, you know
[03:34:25] At the end of the day, yeah, I agree, but it makes for good cheap entertainment, you know, but yeah, so you watch the origin one and it's like yeah
[03:34:33] It's not scripted drama. It's like the actual drama that comes with running and maintaining growing like a business
[03:34:40] or whatever so yeah, if you're interested in like how to run a business and what just the whole of that whole environment and the process
[03:34:46] And all that home is really it gets really interesting. Very interesting
[03:34:49] Check so we got that also we got a album called Psychological Warfare
[03:34:56] Let's be talking to them through your moments of weakness. We got flipside canvas.com, which is Dakota Myers
[03:35:02] Company
[03:35:03] Hang stuff on your wall
[03:35:05] That'll keep you on the path got some books obviously relentless
[03:35:09] From SBS to world record breaker by being stopped. We have that up. We have it linked
[03:35:16] linked
[03:35:18] Books from the epics
[03:35:20] Final spin a
[03:35:22] Story is a poem don't know is a novel don't know. I wrote it
[03:35:27] But I don't know what to call it if you want to try and categorize it. You're gonna have a hard time
[03:35:32] The the literary critics yeah, they're gonna have a field day with that one
[03:35:39] We'll see we'll see how it shakes out form leadership strategy in tactics field manual
[03:35:43] The code the evaluation the protocol discipline equals freedom field manual way the warrior kid four field manual way the warrior kid one two and three
[03:35:49] Mike in the dragons about face my hack worth I wrote the forward
[03:35:54] Extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership
[03:35:58] Awesome a
[03:35:59] Leadership consultant
[03:36:00] Consultancy call that's long front echelon front dot com we saw problems through leadership
[03:36:04] EF online if you want training for you for your company on leadership if you want to get aligned go to
[03:36:09] EF online dot com we got the mustard 2021 go to extreme ownership dot com if you want to come in
[03:36:16] If you want to come and get after it with us
[03:36:20] You want to meet a bunch of people that are all moving forward on the leadership path
[03:36:25] Everything we've done a sold out these are gonna sell out to so come early if you want
[03:36:28] Yeah, if you need
[03:36:30] Leadership inside your team in the civilian sector and you want someone from the military that understands the principles
[03:36:35] We talk about all time go to EF over watch dot com and
[03:36:38] If you want to help
[03:36:41] Service members
[03:36:43] Active duty service members retired service members their families gold star families check out mark leaves mom
[03:36:50] Mama Lee she's got a charity organization and if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to
[03:36:55] America's mighty warriors dot org and if you want more of my if you just you're sitting there thinking
[03:37:02] I could really use some more of jocos
[03:37:04] Intermanable reading or you need more of echoes unrelated revelations
[03:37:11] You can find us on the inner webs
[03:37:13] On Twitter on Instagram or for echo the gram and on Facebook echo is adequate
[03:37:18] Charles and I am at jocca willing and Dean stop is that Dean stop SPS on Facebook and Dean
[03:37:24] Stop STO TT on the
[03:37:27] Graham
[03:37:29] And thanks to all military members around the world and tonight especially to the United Kingdom
[03:37:38] And I know that we rebel against you to former own nation but we became allies and we thank you for standing by our side
[03:37:47] on the battlefield
[03:37:49] The little island with the heart of a lion and to our police and law enforcement fire fighters and paramedics and EMTs
[03:37:56] Dispatchers correctional officers border patrol secret service and all first responders
[03:38:01] Thank you for your continued service and for being there for us when we call and to everyone else
[03:38:09] Let me ask you this what are you doing?
[03:38:13] What are you doing?
[03:38:15] Are you doing everything you can?
[03:38:18] Are you
[03:38:20] Who you want to be?
[03:38:21] Are you who you are you who you are capable of being?
[03:38:29] Are you engaged in a relentless pursuit of excellence?
[03:38:35] Then if you are good
[03:38:38] Then if you aren't well then you just might want to pick a goal
[03:38:43] And go get after it
[03:38:45] And until next time Zekko and Joko out