Jocko Podcast 267: Are You Competing In The Right Things? MCDP 1-4. Pt. 4 w/ Dave Berke

2021-02-04T11:28:40Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @davidrberke 0:00:00 - Opening 0:09:49 - MCDP 1-4. Competing. 1:46:59 - Final thoughts 1:52:31 - How to stay on THE PATH JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/64a89f88-a245-4098-8d8d-496325ec4f74/exclusive-content Jocko Store https://www.jockostore.com/collections/menApparel: Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/nutrition Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:05:16 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

The iterative nature of competition matched to discipline use of the Udalupe will help planners determine how aggressive one should be in pursuit of campaign goals acknowledging these long timelines leads us to consider the consistency of our competitive goals If we believe we may need to take many small steps towards a goal over the course of months years decades or decades Then our objectives should remain relatively stable during that time This is why we look first to our national interest before we derive our competition in campaigning goals Once those are determined we then decide how Marines can support achieving them The campaigning mindset needs to be applied When considering competitive activities especially long term thinking and integrating our actions with others Consistency and sustainability lead us to consider the pace or tempo of competition This tempo is often driven by a cycle of action and counteraction Each campaign and I'm skipping through some stuff here each campaign has a narrative which provides context And purpose for the competition our narrative competes with that of our rival To defeat a competitors narrative we need to replace it with a more persuasive one simply denying someone story may actually reinforce it in the minds of target audience You can't just you can't just that that rumor is gonna come You got to tell the story you got to tell the right story that is why we need to replace it when they more compelling story Sorry next line For example Two firms may sell an identical commodity their respective narratives will explain why they are the right choice to win the business of a particular customer The stronger narrative will displace the weaker one conclusion our War fighting philosophy of maneuver warfare is the philosophy that animates our approach to competition as well So for for the Marine Corps maneuver warfare is the way we are thinking about everything Marines take the same flexible and opportunistic approach to competition as they do towards fighting battles The most important tenant of maneuver warfare is to orient on the enemy and this influence is also felt in competition We orient on our competitor Now This one when I read this I was like immediately freaked out because I saw it with most important thing of maneuver warfare is is To orient on the enemy and I was like oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no Tenet of maneuver warfare Because maneuver warfare without leadership doesn't do anything leadership's the most important thing The words people picked to describe things can also reveal biases or tendencies which is what I just said and these things can be exploited Our competitors across the globe recognize Western societies tendency to think of themselves as either in a condition of at-piece or at-war This is a significant contrast from Maltzay Duns Political politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with with bloodshed Maltzay's the word war He chose the word war to describe the enduring relationship between political actors and an essence said that while The relationship is violent some of the time it's always at a state of war Marines must consider how using words like these differs from how the United States describes it and the corresponding impact these differences might have on the ways and means arrival might use in competition Man they're think you're thinking we're in competition they're thinking we're at war The culture of a group can be defined as the groups accumulated shared learning of how to solve internal and external problems The group this is culture by the way, I miss that the title of this is culture the culture of a group can be defined as the group's accumulated shared learning of how to solve Internal and external problems The group then determines that this shared learning is valid so the new members learn it as they as the correct way to perceive it to perceive Think feel and behave That's what culture is New members come on and that culture is gonna tell them how to perceive things how to think how to feel and how to behave The group then start to take this accumulated learning for granted As a system of beliefs Values and behavioral norms this is culture this is what you're trying to build inside your company this what you're trying to build inside your team This what you're trying to build inside your Pultoon When this happens the system turns into based turns into basic assumptions and eventually drops out of the out of conscious awareness You want that culture so ingrained that people aren't even thinking about it What's the deal? Boy if you're in charge of a company don't you hope and pray that everyone in your company every division in your company Everyone on your team is thinking about your vital interests inside your organization and thinking ahead we establish that what we want to accomplish why and how this provides a vision for Succeeding in competition which in turn helps align the actions taken towards reaching the goals In both the near and long-term we orient on our competitor to develop our understanding of their system We continually refine our models of their system so that we can focus on their weaknesses including increasing our understanding of how their culture affects their decision making process Man, you got to know what your competitors thinking They just say this over and over again Similarly, we must try to see ourselves through our competitors eyes in order to identify our own vulnerabilities that makes that they may try to exploit To influence the future we consider how we can exploit our competitors weakness while protecting our own This usually takes the form of planning I think beyond planning it takes the Takes the form should take the form or at least extend to the form of a war gaming or Red selling or whatever you want to call it totally Forsoin force training our Plans will not always produce a detailed time-tailed move of events as we accept that competition's may unfold over a long time Instead, we attempt to shape the general conditions of the competition since marine support our larger national competitive effort We first need you to determine who we are supporting this support limited only by our imaginations and available resources can take a variety of forms Across all our operating domains for example our force posture exists in all domains and can contribute to the deterrence in these domains Through the diplomatic and informational elements of power it can also improve relationships with our allies and partners Force posture can help develop ties with partner militaries that lead to attracting top performing international officers to our service schools Which further deep in the relationship expanding relationship like this shapes our campaign of competition by increasing the potential number of competitive action We can take think about what you can do inside your organization if you're in business If you just take that section about working with other people get training other what if you took people from other companies? So we always knew what our threats can do with it's kind of pretty binary pretty linear They can do this they can do that we can do this me that this problem You know get solved by when you shoot a missile where you maneuver things like that when I went up to top Gonna became the adversary officer which mean my job for about a year was to pretend to be a Russian pilot basically They'll plans build tactics do things and my what I was supposed to see the world through their eyes and that actually helped me learn that when I see what they're doing or other people are thinking or saying is Why are they seeing the same thing differently and that to me leads to what are they trying to accomplish One more example, which I think is important though that's the lyrics and I bring it up is the the ability to Separate your feelings from your behavior because usually like if you're just not doing any Mental work or whatever Whatever you feel you're gonna your behavior is gonna reflect that specifically Say that doesn't take much work, but if you're and the more intense the feeling the harder work it's gonna be to Change your behavior so it's not based on those emotions feelings whatever So when you can separate those two that's work. Do you know I'm little let's just say disappointed in your whole approach on that section today I don't know if you like feeling down or maybe you didn't drink enough discipline I didn't feel any of that what you just said oh like my energy was all energy was low I'm not like you like let me let me let me give everyone a little something to be happy about since you're You know not feeling it today apparently check this out check this out if you want to get any of this stuff With free shipping from origin main calm all you have to do is subscribe and that's a good call because then you're not gonna Miss you're not gonna look in your cupboard one day Is covered in east coast word? We're gonna look we're gonna look and utilize and work with and cooperate with as many different Elements as we possibly can to to get the best advantage we can over our rivals this Same mindset applies to combining the complementary characteristics of Marines with other partners whether they're from other US government department or from an allied country We orient on the competitor because we want to make sure the combined arms dilemma We intend to present in competition is actually a problem for them this Mindset leads Marines to develop holistic plans designed to reach specific goals in both war and along the larger competition Continuum in competition the idea of combined arms extends through joint force inner agency to allies and partners So we don't necessarily have we don't we don't have to be at war at all To go out and work and combine our efforts with other Other elements that can give us advantages Next section campaign of competition Embracing the mind embracing the competition mindset leads to the realization that the Marine Corps plays and important But supporting role and our nation's various competitions now I have to take a pause there because this idea of supporting role in the military It's the the word supporting in the military is Can be taken as offensive right because what it means is you know if Dave's got a platoon and I've got a platoon Dave and Dave is assigned as the supporting platoon and I'm the main effort Dave is Inferior to me but I don't think we have that book check It's a hard book to get I mean it's No, I'm okay people use words to describe things around the world around them and to describe what is happening in the world These words influence their actions language affects groups of people in a similar way as the words they choose Provide the meaning they want to communicate to each other the words they choose provide the meaning They want to communicate to each other the meaning that is understood then calls it the group to act in one way or another Note that this applies to the word competition In the Western world the word has various meanings that bring to mind sporting events or perhaps two businesses trying to win market share When we add descriptors to the word like great power competition or nation state competition the context The descriptors provide a just our understanding of the competition we face Have you ever heard that The Eskimos have a hundred different words for snow Fact or fiction Were you at I don't know you're right Compare the Western use of the word competition to words Offeritarian governments use to label the same relationship the contrast helps us see How language might shape behavior for example some rivals use struggle or Embracing while fighting Which is a pretty cool thing we call that jujitsu by the way Embracing or fighting to name what we know is competition to most Marines hearing something described as struggle or fighting would shape an initial reaction Quite a bit different than if we had heard described as competition Because of the mental shortcuts to built into how we learned to use the words and what our experience tells us those words typically mean This should alert us that we need to employ critical thinking When considering the language our competitors use it can and does cause them to approach the situation from a different perspective Which leads them to consider using different tools than we might choose That's just If you don't think through that right there you're just gonna fall short if you don't think about how your competitor or what more important What is your what is your subordinate how what words are they choosing Yeah, the Now that when you said all the earlier podcast the whole reason that I was so fired up for this podcast is because it's not just about competing It's more it's equally about leadership But my note on the cover of this says uh competing and then or influencing Which is leadership this This also applies to groups of people where a kind of collective orientation can work in a similar way We must constantly study the components of a rivals orientation if our understanding of their approach to competition is to be useful useful in crafting our own campaign Keep in mind that two people can look at a set of facts and come to very different conclusions about what these facts mean This applies to groups of people as well as we learn in chapter two narratives narratives stories narratives are what People use to give meaning to facts isn't that an interesting way of saying it a narrative in this sense is the story that explains how the world works This narrative or stories constructed from the components language culture experience found in orientation thus People make sense of the world based on their orientation and again the the podcast that that darele and I did on this Called I thought what's the what's a tormenting like Before panic like not anxiety like a little you know Nagging something yes, you see it full up one it fills up Satisfied like your gas tank you know when the gas tank goes all the way to empty and you're like I don't know that's like Let's do See what they're doing Like oh go run that thing through the line go operate that piece of equipment for a half an hour go check out that job site see what's going on So many good ways to change your perspective improve your perspective see more Next section combined arms combined arms is the full integration of arms in such a way that To counteract one the enemy must be more vulnerable to another we pose the enemy Not just with a problem, but with the dilemma a no win situation This is the way Marines fight and win battles This idea also governs how Marines compete even though we broaden no win situations to include careful consideration of positive some options Win win options the governing idea is to orchestrate all of our tools together in ways that are most favorable to us A combined arms mindset leads wanted to consider how to use multi domain tools for to of all potential partners in an effort to reach one calls The ideas to use all available resources to best advantage internal the Marine Corps We look to combine complementary characteristics of different types of units create a competitive advantage externally we look to combine our capabilities with those of joint force to create advantage We apply the same mindset in competition when we combine our capabilities with those of our joint and interagency Partners what what is the Marine Corps saying here?

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocquopontcast number 267 with echo Charles and me jocquawilling good evening echo and
[00:00:07] Also joining us once again becoming a regular perhaps. I don't know. It certainly seems that way at least when we're dealing with the Marine Corps
[00:00:15] Dave Verk Good evening, Dave. Good evening
[00:00:18] All right, so we are three chapters down
[00:00:22] of Marine Corps doctrinal publication of one attack for called competing
[00:00:26] We're gonna knock out the last two today. I feel like we can do it. I feel like we can push through these last two because there's some examples that I I'm gonna skip over
[00:00:38] Last time
[00:00:40] I started to solve talking about how
[00:00:43] Tactical battle that can cause strategic defeat isn't a tackle battle at all. It's actually a strategic battle
[00:00:49] You got a big smile on your face when I said that last time Dave and then I actually heard you talking about it on to a client
[00:00:56] So that was cool, so where where where where soaking up knowledge here?
[00:01:03] And here's something else to think about
[00:01:06] so
[00:01:07] We're competing all the time right that's sort of this theme
[00:01:11] Or as echo would say that's sort of the theme
[00:01:13] Here's the question are we competing in the right things and
[00:01:23] This is where strategic thinking comes in again
[00:01:28] How much time and effort am I putting into a competition that doesn't matter
[00:01:34] We we have to think strategically how often are we competing and
[00:01:45] The sole reason that we are competing is because of where you go how often is that happening?
[00:01:50] It's insanity actually and it happens all the time new car
[00:01:54] Got to get the new car got to get the new car
[00:01:57] Got to get the the Rolex watch look I got nothing against Rolex watches whatever
[00:02:02] I kind of do have a fondness for timex watches perhaps
[00:02:06] But there's people that that they they want their competing they're looking at my watch as if I'm a lower human being
[00:02:14] Legitimately I'm a lower human being because their car is nicer than mine because their watch is nicer than mine because they have a title
[00:02:23] At their business, right?
[00:02:25] And so now I got to compete with them maybe I could try get that title maybe I can try and get them better watch
[00:02:33] Maybe I can try and use the plan that I came up with instead of playing that you came up with
[00:02:38] It seems so obvious that that's not that none of those things are good moves
[00:02:44] To get to get caught in the ecosystem competition
[00:02:49] Because if we take one step outside of that ecosystem one step outside of that ecosystem and no one cares
[00:02:58] There's no one that cares
[00:03:01] About whatever that thing that seems like you need to win you need to pour your effort into to win and you take one step outside of that ecosystem and
[00:03:11] And it's meaningless
[00:03:13] I can't tell the difference between a Rolex watch and and the Chinese made whatever what is that called a knockoff a knockoff
[00:03:23] I can't tell the difference doesn't matter to me some people would freak out about that
[00:03:31] We all like to win I get it I
[00:03:36] Get it
[00:03:38] our Eagles love to win
[00:03:40] Our Eagles love to win at
[00:03:45] Everything at anything or he goes or addicted to winning and it just thing about this
[00:03:51] Addicted to winning
[00:03:53] There's a lot of people that kind of I think yeah, oh, yeah
[00:03:57] Oh, you don't want to do to winning it sounds cool. It actually sounds cool
[00:04:02] Because I want to be a winner right obviously we are winner
[00:04:05] Because if I'm not a winner what am I
[00:04:10] You're a loser. I'm a loser and I don't want to be a loser. I want to be a winner
[00:04:14] Well, let me ask you this. What are you winning?
[00:04:19] What are you winning and
[00:04:21] How does that victory that you just achieved?
[00:04:26] Does it move you towards your long-term strategic goal?
[00:04:31] Does it I
[00:04:37] Was talking about this on on EF online today. I was talking about
[00:04:44] Rufly destroying my youngest daughter in monopoly
[00:04:52] You do where she doesn't want to play anymore, right?
[00:04:55] Tactical victory. I like to win
[00:04:59] I mean, we're talking about I think she was probably nine or ten at the time
[00:05:03] a couple years ago
[00:05:05] Anilated her had the entire had every property hotels on everything put her into debt
[00:05:13] Traided when she would land or want me. I'd trade you know rent for four of her properties
[00:05:19] Just completely annihilated her, right?
[00:05:22] Okay, great
[00:05:24] Now she has she doesn't want to play monopoly with me anymore
[00:05:27] She's not gonna play the game with me anymore
[00:05:29] So that's how is that was that a strategic good move for me? No
[00:05:34] Because it could be it's a great way to teach people to great way to teach your kids about
[00:05:38] Investing in real estate and mortgages and loans from the banks and interest you can do all kinds of cool stuff with monopoly
[00:05:43] I took all that through out the window
[00:05:47] Took it all into stood out the window. Why because I was gonna just win
[00:05:53] Now was there some strategy behind it?
[00:05:55] Little bit
[00:05:58] Don't mess with that
[00:06:01] But what but really
[00:06:05] Did that victory help me the answer is no no I would have been better off to had a good time
[00:06:13] Had her win
[00:06:15] Would have been would have been a better strategic move to play a good game
[00:06:20] Let her get some moves
[00:06:22] Look, wait or lose doesn't even really matter, but to have a good game a
[00:06:26] More balanced game would have been a better strategic move now. We have something fun to do, right?
[00:06:31] And again, there's all these teaching points that you can educate you can negotiate you can do negotiation training
[00:06:37] During monopolies all kinds of things that I threw away
[00:06:42] So
[00:06:44] That's bad and when we look at
[00:06:47] Look, we all want to say oh I'm super competitive hyper competitive
[00:06:52] I'm gonna tell you I know I am and I know a lot of people are
[00:06:56] We're competing all the time, but don't waste your time
[00:07:00] Competing in short-term
[00:07:02] Contests that don't lead you towards your strategic goal
[00:07:08] Remember that competing in the wrong arenas is bad
[00:07:12] Competing in the wrong arenas is bad pay attention to the arena that your competing is in it can be bad for you
[00:07:22] It can be bad for your family, it can be bad for your business, it can be bad for your life and it can be bad for the world
[00:07:28] Because you're focused on things that do not matter
[00:07:31] At a strategic level that's what you're competing at and by the way we can all name people
[00:07:36] That win and compete and win and compete and they compete and they win every single day
[00:07:45] Every single day they win and
[00:07:48] When you assess
[00:07:50] At the end of the day
[00:07:53] Where they end up?
[00:07:55] They end up
[00:07:58] Losers
[00:08:00] Despite all those wins they end up losing
[00:08:04] Because they're winning and they're competing in the wrong things
[00:08:11] So as much as as much as you know we've been sitting here this whole time talking about you're always competing and being being all fired up for that
[00:08:18] Here's the caution
[00:08:20] Pay attention
[00:08:22] Pay attention to what you're competing in
[00:08:25] Make sure it's having you in the right direction
[00:08:31] Got anything on that Dave?
[00:08:32] I saw you scratch it yeah, I saw some down so when you were talking about addicted to winning I wrote down
[00:08:38] at all costs
[00:08:39] They I'm gonna win it all costs and then as I'm listening to talk I wrote down
[00:08:44] Even if the cost is you the cost is to yourself and and it and
[00:08:48] You concluded with what you end up being you end up being a loser when you do that you win all the time
[00:08:53] And it's the willingness to compete to win at all costs
[00:08:57] And your ego is strong enough to let you compete at all costs even if the cost is two your own success in the long run
[00:09:02] Yeah, yeah, that's I think we talked about on this or on the underground podcast, but the winning at all costs
[00:09:09] Mustard thing that I did I should we should I should record I should capture that and release it the winning at all costs set up
[00:09:17] To make everyone think yeah
[00:09:18] We did all costs and then realize oh he's talking about something totally different
[00:09:23] Winning at all costs means
[00:09:25] Subordinate your ego means thinking strategically it means taking losses when it makes sense
[00:09:31] All things to think about
[00:09:33] All things to think about and with that
[00:09:36] Let's jump into back into the final day. I'm gonna go and predict this is the final day of
[00:09:42] Marine Corps
[00:09:44] Dr. Publication of one tack for competing and this first chapter is how rivals approach competition
[00:09:56] Starts off a friend of mine says that to try to describe what life is like in Russia to someone who has never been there is like trying to describe the mysteries of love
[00:10:05] to a person who has never experienced it
[00:10:08] That's from George cannon and then there's another
[00:10:11] Quote here complete competing effectively requires knowing your competition intimately how many hundreds of times have we heard that one
[00:10:21] Only by understanding a competitor's world view
[00:10:24] Decision making and behavioral
[00:10:27] Proclivities can one out maneuver that competitor only by grasping arrivals weaknesses and fears can one exploit them
[00:10:34] Such understanding in turn requires sustained intellectual and economic investment that's from how brands he's a historian
[00:10:43] Son of H W brands famous historian. I guess they're both famous
[00:10:48] That's a really long sentence
[00:10:51] Perhaps we could have just quoted Sunsu in that one, but it's good to show some different angles
[00:10:56] What why are they doing that well because it's worldview?
[00:10:59] It's decision making it's understanding trying to show some things that you need to understand
[00:11:03] Because Sunsu just said no your enemy
[00:11:06] Boom done, we're done
[00:11:08] Here's some details
[00:11:12] First section is called the test
[00:11:14] This chapter explores how political actors who view themselves as rivals to the United States and its allies approach competition
[00:11:20] Usually this means states with an authoritarian government or non-state actors who are described to an extremist ideology
[00:11:28] In
[00:11:33] Leadership strategy and tactics
[00:11:36] There's one section where it's on page 157 and 158 where I talk about what a
[00:11:42] Good leader in a new new leader stepping into leadership role and it actually ends up just applying to all leaders
[00:11:46] But one of the things I say in there is be balanced extreme opinions and actions are usually bad and what's interesting about this
[00:11:56] America
[00:11:58] The way America is supposed to be
[00:12:01] Is balanced that's the way it's supposed to be and you'll notice that when when they're talking about who the rivals of America are it's talking about a authoritarian government
[00:12:11] That's an extreme
[00:12:13] or non-state actors that are
[00:12:15] Subscribe to an extreme ideology
[00:12:17] So just to clue
[00:12:19] When we're thinking about our country about America
[00:12:23] We are trying to have balance. We're trying to not be extreme. That's not a good thing
[00:12:32] We're trying to arrivals are extreme
[00:12:37] Continuing we label these actors arrivals because they either use competitive methods that run counterdo accepted international norms
[00:12:44] Or they pursue in-rests that clash with those the United States and its allies frequently they do both
[00:12:48] Truly understanding how our potential rivals approach competition requires serious reflection and critical thinking
[00:12:56] Once again, Marine Corps telling us to be reflective and tell us telling us to apply critical thinking
[00:13:03] We didn't hear
[00:13:05] We didn't hear any
[00:13:07] Talk of serious reflection and critical thinking from gunnery sergeant Hartman in the first 45 minutes of full metal jacket
[00:13:20] In fact, it will be nearly impossible for Marines to
[00:13:24] To see beyond their own patterns of thought the patterns they develop from living in an American society and serving in an organization like the Marine Corps
[00:13:31] So you have to break out of that box that you're in
[00:13:38] However, those who do this kind of intellectual work which is a strong word work
[00:13:45] Give themselves the opportunity as discussed in-chaperitude to create a model representing rival approaches to competition
[00:13:51] Okay
[00:13:52] For people like Marines who carry 100 pound rucksacks up and down a hill who hump machine guns who come over the beach
[00:14:01] Who dig in to foxholes to use the word work
[00:14:07] To describe
[00:14:08] How we're gonna think about things that's a that's an important thing to know this is not easy
[00:14:14] It's not easy
[00:14:17] And I'm gonna give everyone a little hint here myself included
[00:14:20] You know how you know you know how you can do intellectual work
[00:14:25] Echo you're gonna guess us how did you do intellectual work how do you think about something what does that what does that look like
[00:14:31] Me yeah echo Charles how do I do intellectual work
[00:14:37] So if you
[00:14:40] Read about something or listen okay, okay, okay, somebody people talk or whatever
[00:14:46] And then try to think of other examples outside of their specific context
[00:14:51] Okay, excellent. I like this answer
[00:14:53] That's a first one they came to mind. I do that all the time. I'll obviously you sit here and do that with me all the time because we're sitting here
[00:14:59] Reading books and talking about the context of that book and then what it looks like from different angles
[00:15:06] We study the same material from war over and over again
[00:15:10] And should look at it from a different angle so the whole idea of trying to and again
[00:15:17] We talked about this before but yes my one of my biggest take no straight up my big stick away from his whole thing campaign whatever
[00:15:25] Is recognizing that there's a short game in playing long game in play
[00:15:30] So to be able to see the long game in every little move you do that takes work. That's a good exercise. We'll see for the work
[00:15:37] Okay, I like where you're at you brought us closer to my answer
[00:15:46] Dave Burke any additional information yeah, I mean the thing I would add is
[00:15:52] When I listen to other people talk or read or hear or whatever that is and it's certainly a habit that I've
[00:15:58] Picked up
[00:15:59] Haven't always had this habit so when I'm the beginning of my reading life is just trying to figure out why people
[00:16:05] Think what they think like why do they see it that way and
[00:16:09] Not for the sake of finding out what's wrong with them
[00:16:12] But by actually wondering if there seems something and I'm not seeing like why does this guy see the same problem the same
[00:16:18] Problem that I think I'm looking at and see it so differently and
[00:16:22] What does he see that I don't see and
[00:16:25] a lot of where that thought came in is it my time in the military is when I started flying up atop gun was a first time when we really got
[00:16:33] Invested in our adversary capability
[00:16:35] So we always knew what our threats can do with it's kind of pretty binary pretty linear
[00:16:40] They can do this they can do that we can do this me that this problem
[00:16:42] You know get solved by when you shoot a missile where you maneuver things like that when I went up to top
[00:16:46] Gonna became the adversary officer which mean my job for about a year was to pretend to be a Russian pilot basically
[00:16:52] They'll plans build tactics do things and my what I was supposed to see the world through their eyes and that actually helped me learn that when I see what they're doing or other people are thinking or saying is
[00:17:00] Why are they seeing the same thing differently and that to me leads to what are they trying to accomplish
[00:17:08] One more example, which I think is important though that's the lyrics and I bring it up is the the ability to
[00:17:15] Separate your feelings from your behavior because usually like if you're just not doing any
[00:17:20] Mental work or whatever
[00:17:22] Whatever you feel you're gonna your behavior is gonna reflect that specifically
[00:17:26] Say that doesn't take much work, but if you're and the more intense the feeling the harder work it's gonna be to
[00:17:33] Change your behavior so it's not based on those emotions feelings whatever
[00:17:37] So when you can separate those two that's work. Wait. What are we separating? How you feel and how you behave?
[00:17:41] Okay, got it. So you know when you get angry you don't have to act angry like that's hard
[00:17:45] That's work right there for mental work. Yeah, yeah, so
[00:17:50] There's one there's one more thing that I would add to these ideas so we have read
[00:17:55] Which I definitely like then we're gonna read we're gonna question both you kind of said the same thing like hey we're gonna question
[00:18:03] Why is that like that?
[00:18:05] Maybe it's a little overlay of my thoughts or feelings about that or my experiences around that
[00:18:11] And then what I would say
[00:18:14] intellectual work kind of requires
[00:18:18] Is to write is to actually write down
[00:18:21] What what you're what you're what you're where you're going and one of the most powerful things about writing things down
[00:18:29] And this is another thing I said on the F online today writing things down
[00:18:33] Is defacto detaching from it. Yep, so if I if Dave's having a hard time making a decision
[00:18:39] And I could tell him hey you need to do catch or I can say hey make a pros and cons list
[00:18:44] He makes a pros and cons now he's
[00:18:46] Literally comes out of his head onto a piece of paper and he's looking at it
[00:18:49] Yeah, it's actual detachment the only way I can write a cons list of my own plan is to be detached from that plan
[00:18:55] Yeah, I can come up with what's wrong with it is to detach from it. Yeah, totally
[00:19:00] So if you're out there and you're thinking okay, I want to do some intellectual work
[00:19:04] What what you should do is read
[00:19:06] You should question and you should write down what you think because when you're trying to write down what you think
[00:19:13] It detaches you from the problem
[00:19:15] Even if you're trying to write down even if Dave hands me, you know 20 pages of his concept about how rushons fly
[00:19:23] What I should do is go oh, thanks Dave. I should read it and I should actually write down hey I think these were the major points that you hit
[00:19:30] And now I'm now I'm seeing what I'm understanding and I'm looking at it and I go oh wait
[00:19:36] He also said this oh wait. There's a hole over here
[00:19:38] Dave didn't see this really super obvious thing that any idiot want to see him. I'm scared
[00:19:45] But it but it allows me to look at it from a detached perspective
[00:19:48] So even when you're when you're even if you read something even if somebody explained something to you to capture those things
[00:19:54] You know even when you take notes taking notes is part of it taking notes is part of learning
[00:20:01] In in way the warrior kid you can't just buy flashcards with math with math problems with the times table
[00:20:09] You can't just buy flashcards and you need to make them you need to write them yourself that's part of it. That's part of the learning process
[00:20:21] Continues on here we return to the Udalupe to develop our understanding of why others approach competition differently and
[00:20:28] What the implications might be we accept that the that Udha is more than a linear process a person's orientation
[00:20:37] Interacts dynamically with the other three elements of the Udalupe
[00:20:41] Below we examine how arrivals orientation may be different from ours and then how
[00:20:47] And then look at how to use this knowledge to build our understanding of rival approaches to competition
[00:20:53] So we're just going deep in a Dave Burke world
[00:20:59] How much did you guys focus on the Udalupe at like at top gone we we talk about it's embedded in there
[00:21:04] It's funny because I talk I teach I guess you could say I teach a version of the Udalupe now especially the mustard
[00:21:10] My connection to the Udalupe is much more aligned with the principles of a shameless ship
[00:21:15] We talk about prioritizing execute observe or in-designed is relax look around make it call
[00:21:19] So I make kind of a narrow connection and and the way I teach it is is narrow by design
[00:21:24] Well, it's a 25 minute class. I'm not gonna spend hours on this thing
[00:21:27] And one of the things that I focus on is the action the a part of the loop
[00:21:31] But when this you know the inception of the thing when boy talked about it and if you read boy's description of the loop
[00:21:37] He talks about orientation and basically says that's the most important part
[00:21:41] That's the most critical step and underneath that was his recognition of how hard it is to do what you just described
[00:21:47] Jockel how hard it is from it. Go all right. Let me get out of my own head my own eyes my own vision of this and see it from another
[00:21:54] Persons perspective how hard it is to detach and so as we're talking Udaluen the orientation piece he
[00:22:01] Emphasize that so much
[00:22:04] Because I think he understood it's so difficult to detach and go what are you seeing how are you seeing this differently?
[00:22:11] Certainly, you know great power competition you could go down to an airplane
[00:22:14] But that orientation process is really difficult to do and that was one of the things we talked about all the time is
[00:22:21] We would teach from one perspective and fly from another so if it's a top-grin instructor
[00:22:25] I would go teach you
[00:22:27] Offensive BFM and I would fly
[00:22:31] Defense sorry sorry that's dog fighting one against one basic fighter maneuvers
[00:22:34] So the whole class I would give you before you and I go fly I'm teaching you how to be behind me offensive and then I would fly the flight as the instructor
[00:22:41] The opposite side you're trying to be behind me. No, no, no, I am you're behind me
[00:22:46] It's designed to be that since it's it's you to get that picture, but the instructor has to be able to have the vision
[00:22:51] Looking over looking behind me
[00:22:53] But seeing it as if I'm behind you the ability to have your orientation
[00:22:57] So if I'm gonna be a good if I'm gonna be a qualified top-grin instructor
[00:23:01] I have to teach you how to fly offensive meaning you're behind me
[00:23:05] I had to fly that whole flight defensive
[00:23:07] But be able to explain what happened from your perspective from your point of view that's what makes it so hard
[00:23:12] That's the orientation because in that fight the way it is is your behind me and I'm defensive
[00:23:17] But when I'm actually teaching is I'm behind you and offensive and it's really hard to do that
[00:23:25] So this this idea here is important because now we're not just talking about orient
[00:23:30] In myself, it's what's your orientation what's my rivals orientations and that's that's a
[00:23:38] Radically different ball game and it's it's funny because I always use the turn perspective right?
[00:23:42] I don't know what my enemy's perspective or or what my you know what my coworkers perspective is what how are they oriented towards this problem?
[00:23:49] What's their perspective on this?
[00:23:50] So this is something that I talk about all the time, but I haven't connected that
[00:23:54] What we're really doing is we're seeing the u their u to loop what does it look like for them?
[00:24:03] Orientations affects on the u to loop or orientation influences all other elements of the u to loop because it controls
[00:24:09] Because it controls how people make sense of what they observe and because it shapes their decisions and actions
[00:24:16] Orientation consists of all things that affect how a person understands the world such as language culture genetics
[00:24:22] Education, previous experience, et cetera humans often use mental shortcuts called
[00:24:30] Euristics which we talked about on the cognitive bias
[00:24:33] Program on the on the underground they developed four orientation now
[00:24:38] This is another crazy
[00:24:41] web of connection
[00:24:43] When when and I've been going off on this when Darrell Cooper and I did
[00:24:47] One of the unraveling podcasts and I talk about we talked about what is your story and this whole thing and you take that
[00:24:53] What is your story and then you apply it to leadership and you apply it to life?
[00:24:56] That's exactly what this is
[00:24:58] Understanding the person story understanding the rival story understanding the enemy story understanding your competitor story
[00:25:05] And also understanding your co-workers story understanding your subordinate story understanding your superior story
[00:25:11] Understanding your peer story
[00:25:13] All those things are playing into how they are oriented in this situation
[00:25:20] So I'm gonna throw this out to just a little just a little something for you
[00:25:26] If I'm having trouble with Dave
[00:25:29] If I'm having trouble with Dave as
[00:25:32] He's my subordinate or he's my peer
[00:25:34] You know what's a good little drill is to sit down and write out what is Dave's perspective
[00:25:41] Because now I'm gonna detach now. I'm gonna take a step back now
[00:25:46] I'm gonna have to actually do the intellectual work because I can do a little with the old Dave's problem is that's cool
[00:25:53] But that's not intellectual work that's intellectual doodling and I'm pointing at echo Charles when I say that because echo Charles has a tendency to doodle sometimes during this podcast
[00:26:03] Intellectual doodling is oh, it would Dave's problem is
[00:26:06] Intellectual work is you know what I need to sit down and write down
[00:26:11] What is Dave's perspective? Why does he care about this project? Why is he so concerned about the timeline?
[00:26:17] Why is he need say he needs more people when he's never asked for those are really good questions if I answer those questions
[00:26:23] And do the intellectual work?
[00:26:25] I will actually make progress and undo a better job of understanding what his perspective is and how he's oriented in this situation for example back to the book
[00:26:38] When people learn to drive a car they gain experience and making a right turn at first they consciously look through
[00:26:42] Think through each step
[00:26:44] Such as engaging the turn signal looking in their mirrors for other traffic tapping the brake pedal turn the wheel
[00:26:50] And a relatively short time this experience becomes a mental shortcut so that when a driver
[00:26:55] Recognizes a pattern their brain knows as right turn they automatically go through the steps and making the right turn a little known need for conscious thought about it
[00:27:01] Apply that mental
[00:27:03] A similar type of mental shortcut also happens with great frequency often in more complex or dangerous situations
[00:27:10] So we're not thinking or we're we're taking shortcuts mental shortcuts
[00:27:14] What do you got Dave?
[00:27:16] Be careful man. We might not get through this one
[00:27:18] I'm sorry to freak out. Yeah, but this is there's so much in your you said this I think on the last podcast was this I know this publications about competing with
[00:27:28] Our global rivals here, but this doesn't have to be about a competitor all the time a competitor all the time it can
[00:27:34] It can be the people on your team hundred percent people that you're trying to help and and I think the way you're describing it is is
[00:27:40] I mean that's leadership at its core and I was just thinking of how what did they manage that you have?
[00:27:44] If you can understand from their perspective why they're doing what they're doing and of course that helps with your competition
[00:27:50] If you know why that chess player is moving the pieces the way it is that's a huge advantage
[00:27:55] But think about how you can help your people and
[00:27:58] This is just the idea that this understanding of their perspective
[00:28:02] the leadership
[00:28:05] Power that you have
[00:28:07] to understand that
[00:28:09] And the impact you can have to help them make good decisions or help them get to what they want to get or accomplish with they want to accomplish
[00:28:16] By understanding their perspective and you use example all the time we talk about kids and and
[00:28:22] That's actually one thing we can do is I remember what it's like to be the my 12 year old daughter and the thing and it's easy to dismiss it and be like
[00:28:29] Get annoyed with them for behaving or acting or reacting to a situation a certain way and let you go
[00:28:34] Aw, you know what I actually remember what that feels like to be in her situation. I know where she's coming from I know why she sees this thing as such a huge deal
[00:28:42] And if I take that perspective that orientation it's so much easier for me to guide her to where I want her to be to help her
[00:28:48] Not as a competitor, but someone I actually want to help
[00:28:51] So just the connection between the orientation the competition in the next piece is actually to lead them
[00:28:56] The the that saying hey don't forget don't forget where you came from like when I became an officer in the sealed teams
[00:29:03] You know, don't forget where you came from man. That's a real thing
[00:29:08] That's a real thing and you don't want to forget where you came from
[00:29:11] What is the thing that you don't want to forget you don't want to forget that perspective?
[00:29:14] I wrote about leadership strategy tactics. I remembered being the last guy on a patrol no idea where we're going
[00:29:19] No idea how much further we have to
[00:29:21] Go until we get there no idea what we're gonna do to break no idea if there's any streams up ahead
[00:29:25] We can get water no I don't know anything and I hated it and
[00:29:29] When I was in charge I remember I didn't forget where I came from I didn't forget what it was
[00:29:33] I didn't forget the perspective of being an AW in the back of the train
[00:29:39] So it's like the opposite of the curse of knowledge remember that
[00:29:42] Cognitive bias across the knowledge when you kind of forget that you know everything and everyone else doesn't right
[00:29:47] It's the opposite of that. I wouldn't know she's the opposite of that
[00:29:50] It's a similar thing where I think everybody knows what I know
[00:29:53] And in this case don't forget yeah, I guess it is I guess it is you could utilize that cognitive bias as a warning
[00:30:01] Hey make sure that everybody
[00:30:03] Not everybody knows what you know
[00:30:06] Continue on it is essential for Marines to understand the role a person's orientation plays in the choices they make and how this relates to the actions
[00:30:14] They take in the world this also applies to groups of people where a kind of collective orientation can work in a similar way
[00:30:22] Oh wow
[00:30:23] If everyone on the team sees something the same way it's gonna be a better it's gonna be an easier team believe and they're gonna get more stuff done
[00:30:29] They're gonna get it done quicker
[00:30:33] Yeah, the
[00:30:35] Now that when you said all the earlier podcast the whole reason that I was so fired up for this podcast is because it's not just about competing
[00:30:42] It's more it's equally about leadership
[00:30:46] But my note on the cover of this says
[00:30:49] uh competing and then or influencing
[00:30:53] Which is leadership
[00:30:56] this
[00:30:59] This also applies to groups of people where a kind of collective orientation can work in a similar way
[00:31:05] We must constantly study the components of a rivals orientation if our understanding of their approach to competition is to be useful
[00:31:12] useful in crafting our own campaign
[00:31:14] Keep in mind that two people can look at a set of facts and come to very different conclusions about what these facts mean
[00:31:24] This applies to groups of people as well as we learn in chapter two narratives narratives stories narratives are what
[00:31:30] People use to give meaning to facts isn't that an interesting way of saying it a narrative in this sense is the story that explains how the world works
[00:31:39] This narrative or stories constructed from the components language culture experience found in orientation thus
[00:31:47] People make sense of the world based on their orientation and again the the podcast that that darele and I did on this
[00:31:57] Called what is your story on the on the unraveling podcast
[00:32:00] The way that the mind works to formulate stories so that you can survive and make sense of the world
[00:32:07] There's always we cover them on the podcast, but these psychological experiments that that psychologists have done
[00:32:14] That show clearly that
[00:32:17] We will connect the dots in our own head and just believe that to be the truth
[00:32:21] We will we will make up a story it's the extreme of you know in leadership strategy in tactics of um
[00:32:26] Hey, if you know if you if you don't tell the team what's going on they're gonna make up a story and it's not gonna be a good one by the way
[00:32:32] That's what we do so we do in groups
[00:32:34] We'll fill in the blanks all day long. You're if you're in a seal platoon and you don't know where you're going
[00:32:40] Believe me guess where you're going you're going to to Siberia for a six month deployment. That's what's happening
[00:32:51] And then you know I got fired up with a title of this next section
[00:32:56] Language shapes behavior
[00:32:59] Hmm, and that interesting there are 1984 George or well
[00:33:04] Which some people have commented echo Charles
[00:33:07] That you didn't read that book in high school. No
[00:33:11] Scary
[00:33:13] We think it's scary. I don't even know if it was because they didn't assign it or because I refused to read it after it was assigned
[00:33:21] Refused or or failed to okay just wanted to make sure I have that language that we were using
[00:33:27] What's gonna shape our real murder correct? I don't read it
[00:33:33] We didn't have that but I don't think we have that book check
[00:33:36] It's a hard book to get I mean it's
[00:33:39] No, I'm okay people use words to describe things around the world around them and to describe what is happening in the world
[00:33:47] These words influence their actions language affects groups of people in a similar way as the words they choose
[00:33:52] Provide the meaning they want to communicate to each other the words they choose provide the meaning
[00:34:00] They want to communicate to each other the meaning that is understood then calls it the group to act in one way or another
[00:34:06] Note that this applies to the word competition
[00:34:09] In the Western world the word has various meanings that bring to mind sporting events or perhaps two businesses trying to win market share
[00:34:16] When we add descriptors to the word like great power competition or nation state competition the context
[00:34:25] The descriptors provide a just our understanding of the competition we face
[00:34:31] Have you ever heard that
[00:34:34] The Eskimos have a hundred different words for snow
[00:34:39] Fact or fiction
[00:34:40] Were you at I don't know oh the fact that they have a hundred different words hundreds one hundred
[00:34:45] I don't think that that's true Dave
[00:34:48] Fact or fiction I'm gonna say it's not true. It's probably just a saying
[00:34:52] Okay, but it probably is rooted something yeah, maybe there's a lot more than just one word you know like 14 words or something like this
[00:34:59] I don't know how many words it's probably I'm this is really dumb of me to do this
[00:35:02] I like did research and did write it down
[00:35:04] I think the number is the round 50 there's around 50 words and
[00:35:09] But but it's words for like frost versus snow on the ground versus snow in the air versus hard packs snow versus soft powders
[00:35:17] No, they they do have different words
[00:35:20] Yeah, remember I was telling you in in Hawaiian there's different words for water for that exact same reason this ocean water
[00:35:27] There's river water there's a rain that you know
[00:35:30] Different words yeah, and those are really actually
[00:35:33] Very different things you I mean, let's face it those are really different things why don't we have what what?
[00:35:37] I guess we have a descriptor ocean water. River water lake water
[00:35:41] Yeah, well why some things need the descriptor and one things kind of need a whole different word, you know
[00:35:47] What's the differentiator really?
[00:35:49] I don't know
[00:35:50] Mr.
[00:35:51] Hey look if you're gonna be like
[00:35:54] If you're gonna be like hey rain water river water lake water waterfall ocean water wave these are all things may
[00:36:02] Had that have water in right right why not just go go deeper go oxygen
[00:36:05] There's oxygen in all these other things
[00:36:07] I was I was trying to think of an example of like well what words actually are like that here's one road
[00:36:14] We have a road totally we have a highway
[00:36:18] We have an exit
[00:36:21] We have what I can say okay, that's three words well then then the street street
[00:36:27] Okay, good yes, thank you. There's a bunch more and and the
[00:36:31] Connection dude is like your ass is like it's about I think it's about perspective and the orientation of it
[00:36:36] Oh, by the way like I was thinking of we said snow is like well
[00:36:40] If it's is it I don't know is it is it a dusting or is it like a dumping like the perspective that actually really matters like what would you go do and what road?
[00:36:48] I don't know is it a like unpaved single lane, you know dirt hard
[00:36:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Hey, and if you're gonna go on one of those crazy
[00:36:56] I X is it like what kind of road is it?
[00:36:59] And that's the word he's described is gonna matter a lot based on under perspective on that
[00:37:04] Yeah, oh
[00:37:07] Stop it where's the line you know where do you draw the line but yeah, you're right
[00:37:14] Compare the Western use of the word competition to words
[00:37:17] Offeritarian governments use to label the same relationship the contrast helps us see
[00:37:23] How language might shape behavior for example some rivals use struggle or
[00:37:29] Embracing while fighting
[00:37:31] Which is a pretty cool thing we call that jujitsu by the way
[00:37:37] Embracing or fighting to name what we know is competition to most Marines hearing something described as struggle or fighting would shape an initial reaction
[00:37:46] Quite a bit different than if we had heard described as competition
[00:37:50] Because of the mental shortcuts to built into how we learned to use the words and what our experience tells us those words typically mean
[00:37:57] This should alert us that we need to employ critical thinking
[00:38:00] When considering the language our competitors use it can and does cause them to approach the situation from a different perspective
[00:38:10] Which leads them to consider using different tools than we might choose
[00:38:15] That's just
[00:38:18] If you don't think through that right there you're just gonna fall short if you don't think about how your
[00:38:24] competitor or what more important
[00:38:26] What is your what is your subordinate how what words are they choosing
[00:38:33] Wait
[00:38:35] I'm getting oh I'm in charge of this
[00:38:39] Oh, I'm in charge hey echo hey, I want you to take charge of this
[00:38:42] And then I hear echo in the locker room go yeah jocco tasked me with oh
[00:38:47] You're seeing as opposed to like yeah, I'll be running this now. Oh, yeah, yeah, we're saying the exact same thing totally
[00:38:53] They're meaning yeah one echo is happy about hey, I'm gonna run in this now and one is hey jocco tasked me with doing this
[00:38:59] Of course, I'm showing some tone on there. I guess yeah, but that's she though like if you know if you tell me
[00:39:05] Hey, you're in charge of
[00:39:07] Mowing the lawn
[00:39:09] Okay, you know, I take some respawn you know that's the feeling you know, but if you be like hey
[00:39:14] You got to go do some chores and and one of them is going that that's your problem
[00:39:20] Hubbed that knowing the lawn that's your problem now kind of got to want to do it you you're gonna do it both
[00:39:25] situations I got to do it
[00:39:27] Same deal
[00:39:29] Different attitude though different approaches if I understand the approach if I understand that the words that I use or when I ask you about it
[00:39:37] And I understand that those words reveal the situation clear for me as a leader to make decisions
[00:39:43] That's a powerful thing and of course it applies to a competition as well
[00:39:47] The words people picked to describe things can also reveal biases or tendencies which is what I just said and these things can be exploited
[00:39:55] Our competitors across the globe recognize Western societies tendency to think of themselves as either in a condition of at-piece or at-war
[00:40:05] This is a significant contrast from Maltzay Duns
[00:40:08] Political politics is war without bloodshed while war is politics with with bloodshed Maltzay's the word war
[00:40:17] He chose the word war to describe the enduring relationship between political actors and an essence said that while
[00:40:24] The relationship is violent some of the time it's always at a state of war
[00:40:30] Marines must consider how using words like these differs from how the United States describes it and the corresponding impact these
[00:40:37] differences might have on the ways and means arrival might use in competition
[00:40:48] Man they're think you're thinking we're in competition they're thinking we're at war
[00:40:56] The culture of a group can be defined as the groups accumulated shared learning of how to solve internal and external problems
[00:41:02] The group this is culture by the way, I miss that the title of this is culture the culture of a group can be defined as the group's accumulated shared learning of how to solve
[00:41:10] Internal and external problems
[00:41:12] The group then determines that this shared learning is valid so the new members learn it as they as the correct way to perceive it to perceive
[00:41:20] Think feel and behave
[00:41:23] That's what culture is
[00:41:25] New members come on and that culture is gonna tell them how to perceive things how to think how to feel and how to behave
[00:41:31] The group then start to take this accumulated learning for granted
[00:41:35] As a system of beliefs
[00:41:38] Values and behavioral norms this is culture this is what you're trying to build inside your company this what you're trying to build inside your team
[00:41:44] This what you're trying to build inside your Pultoon
[00:41:47] When this happens the system turns into based turns into basic assumptions and eventually drops out of the out of conscious awareness
[00:41:54] You want that culture so ingrained that people aren't even thinking about it
[00:41:58] What's the deal?
[00:41:59] Dave what's the deal with Marines wearing flip flops on base?
[00:42:07] Is that legal or illegal illegal so be in that where when I was
[00:42:14] You know
[00:42:16] When I was in the derbs and I would go to MCRD right and I would you know
[00:42:22] I would have like a short haircut and I would be dressed, you know just whatever and I you know surf shorts t-shirt flip flops
[00:42:32] And sometimes occasionally
[00:42:35] I would get a look a second look. Oh, yeah like whoa
[00:42:39] You know you can see and I never actually had anybody say anything to me. I never had somebody cross over and say hey Marine
[00:42:46] And maybe it's because of bad by this point I never really went to MCRD a lot until I was a little older
[00:42:53] You know if I would have been younger I probably have gotten called out definitely okay. That's good to know
[00:42:58] So that's culture right yeah, I mean the so that's the culture in the Marine Corps you don't wear flip flops and so really close
[00:43:03] Certainly not on base. I mean I remember one of my first overseas deployments were my wife actually came and spent a little time with me
[00:43:09] Which is kind of uncommon. It was a Japan deployment so you know not obviously a common deployment
[00:43:14] But she came out spend a little time and just up the road was the seven day store
[00:43:18] Which is like I never in Marine base you can get like you know so does or whatever and
[00:43:23] You can rent videos or do and
[00:43:25] There she was in there getting something and two young Marines walked in and there was like a Marine gun research
[00:43:30] Just standing there on the Saturday afternoon not doing anything but at the front door and every Marine that showed up with flip flops
[00:43:36] He made him turn a
[00:43:38] Made him leave and it was like a three quarter mile walk and I get up there was a total bummer you know is they gonna have vehicles or young kids or 18 years old
[00:43:45] And just the looks on those young Marines faces just the
[00:43:48] Dejected look and she came back and she's like what is the deal?
[00:43:53] Like Marines don't wear flip flops. That's the deal
[00:43:57] But that's the you know that's that's the culture. That's the culture and you know you can argue all day long
[00:44:02] But hey, you know, is this a big deal is not a big deal? There's an argument that says like dude is it a big deal
[00:44:05] You can make that argument and then the other argument is
[00:44:09] What is more important than the culture in the Marine court? So I
[00:44:13] Of course was like
[00:44:15] The Marines don't wear flip flops on this like that's what I don't remember what else is there for me to say yeah exactly
[00:44:19] Marines don't wear flip flops. Thank you period next question beer now
[00:44:25] But yeah, that's the thing that's absolutely a thing
[00:44:27] Yeah, and that so that's like the perfect culture, right? That's the perfect
[00:44:31] Exactly why I asked you that question because what is more important than the culture in Marine court?
[00:44:37] Marines don't wear flip flops period and story
[00:44:40] There's a level of professionalism that is we don't go below that's right
[00:44:44] And I just use the word we to describe the
[00:44:50] Culture is similar to a computer's
[00:44:53] Operating system it is the basic rule set about how the computer works
[00:44:57] But it operates in the background
[00:44:59] We have to purposefully examine the operating system if we want to learn how it affects the computer's operations
[00:45:06] Culture is like this rule set operating in the background while influencing a group thoughts and actions
[00:45:13] Culture like an operating system receives updates in adjustments over time as more is learned and as it adjusts to new threats and opportunities
[00:45:19] Culture however changes organically while an operating system relies on human intervention now. What's interesting about that?
[00:45:27] is
[00:45:31] You have to check your culture sometimes how do you check your culture? I'll give you one guess what you do is you take a step back and you write down what the culture is
[00:45:38] Now here's where you might be let us try I might think oh
[00:45:43] I want to know about the culture my Patoon so I write down my Patoon
[00:45:47] You know gets to work first my Patoon puts the job first my Patoon we take care of each other my Patoon
[00:45:53] We look sharp all the time whatever whatever these things are
[00:45:58] That's the culture in your Patoon
[00:46:03] I can't just say I can't just interject a new culture
[00:46:09] Line into that and have it just be
[00:46:13] What well that's the new that's that's now the culture you can't do that
[00:46:18] Culture is how they describing it cultures organic
[00:46:20] Yeah, now listen over time you can make it you know hardcore Rikando's
[00:46:26] Hardcore Rikando's right the 439th with hackworth he interjected hey from now on
[00:46:32] The the salutation is hardcore Rikando's no fucking slack and he says
[00:46:39] At first what did they do they laughed and they're gonna go go life for who's this freaking life for right and then it started to cut
[00:46:48] He pin start to creep into the consciousness so
[00:46:52] You can interject something and just expect it to be accepted
[00:46:56] And but as he as you interject something and if you are a good leader and you said a good example and you start keeping your troops alive
[00:47:03] Which hackworth did and you start going on offense and you start winning and people start to embrace these things that you brought on board
[00:47:10] You can make that culture have a shift
[00:47:13] So what you have to be careful of though which have to be careful of and why it's good to step back and do an assessment and write down
[00:47:19] What you think your culture is is you can make sure there's nothing in there that says
[00:47:23] Platoon comes first screw everyone else we don't want that culture
[00:47:28] Now when you start thinking okay, I know I can't just line out screw everyone else and now we're good
[00:47:34] I have to say how am I gonna slowly organically change this culture
[00:47:40] into what it should be
[00:47:42] Do that's not easy man. I mean like you're describing that
[00:47:45] I mean god, I'm almost embarrassed to give my version of that or my example of that as a commander
[00:47:50] Because compared to hackworth it's just so ridiculous
[00:47:52] But when I took command my my first
[00:47:56] Operational command as an F 35 squadron commander was the very first F 35 squadron the Marine Corps ever
[00:48:03] And what I was given in that squadron were
[00:48:06] Hornet guys and hairy your guys and then there was coast hornet guys and he's coast horned guys
[00:48:11] And you know this probably similar on the team's East Coast and West Coast
[00:48:14] They're actually in a lot of it's very different
[00:48:16] So if you flew Hornets on the West Coast you got a lot of cultural norms that are different than Hornets on the East Coast
[00:48:22] And then I got a whole different so I had four different cultures really Hornets hairyers East Coast West Coast and the first thing
[00:48:27] One of the first things I Institute of when I got there as the commander to her like we are a 35 guys
[00:48:32] There's no more Hornet guy. There's no and I don't care if you're background if you fly hairyers and cherry point Hornets and jib jib jib jib
[00:48:37] It doesn't matter
[00:48:38] Because there was some connotation like oh the Hornet guys were better air to air the hair your guys are better air to ground because that's where they came from well this new airplane
[00:48:44] There we need to do it all so
[00:48:47] It was there was some resistance of
[00:48:50] That's where I came from that's my identity and that's what we are and it took some time to
[00:48:57] Resist against to push against that but what I wanted the rest of the world to know about us was
[00:49:03] This is what we do not this is where we used to do this where it came from and so
[00:49:06] Even some some some some some for resistance of that right thought everything would be on board of that
[00:49:10] It took some time for guys to release that I that former
[00:49:14] Identity of what what we were and I think in some ways it's good because it speaks to how strong the culture is
[00:49:20] But the bigger issue is how hard it is to change the culture and if they don't buy a new it's not
[00:49:25] It's never going to happen if they don't buy into that change that change will not happen
[00:49:30] It has to be has to be organic it has to take it's gonna take time you have to plant the seeds
[00:49:36] You have to let you have to let it grow inside their own minds, right?
[00:49:39] You can do your best to plant seeds, but it's gonna have to come from inside
[00:49:43] You can't really impl it's very difficult can't see you can't it difficult to impose culture yeah
[00:49:53] Although culture has a wide variety of attributes we will highlight time risk and mindset as we
[00:49:58] Consider how culture might affect the way our rivals approach competition
[00:50:03] Collectivists or group focus cultures emphasize the importance of the group over the individual and often feel compelled to reach decisions
[00:50:10] By gaining consensus which frequently takes time to develop from an American orientation
[00:50:17] This may appear to take too long from a collective
[00:50:21] Culture orientation achieving consensus might be considered so important that taking months or even years to reach a decision
[00:50:27] Is given higher priority
[00:50:30] Neither perspective is objectively right or wrong
[00:50:33] But each is logically consistent when viewed from its
[00:50:38] respective cultural orientation
[00:50:42] I have a note here my note says both these are wrong from a leadership perspective
[00:50:49] Let let them come up with the plan let them come up the idea and provide support to it
[00:50:55] That's a lot faster. It's a lot faster for me to say hey Dave you know, hey, what is your team want to do here?
[00:51:01] I'll tell you what come up with a plan and and brief me on the plan
[00:51:05] Not arguing I'm not looking for consensus. I'm just looking for a good idea that's pretty close and we're gonna run with it
[00:51:11] Just the
[00:51:12] Jesus it gets consensus
[00:51:14] When you're not trying to create the consensus oh oh oh oh oh
[00:51:19] Wait, I agree. Okay, we're done. We're done trying we're done trying to get consensus. I love your idea
[00:51:24] Yeah, oh yeah, you're right. You're right. You're awesome. Yes
[00:51:27] What about when there's nine people cool help guide those guide those nine people to give consensus to each other
[00:51:35] Consensus is consensus being becomes a battle when you inject ego into it
[00:51:41] So otherwise we just asked some questions and we figured out what the best solution isn't we move forward
[00:51:46] Add a question the other day two days you
[00:51:48] What do you do when you keep when you check your ego but you still want to do your plan?
[00:51:55] So someone talking about two people on their team
[00:51:58] They both had different plans same outcome but the different ways to do it
[00:52:01] What happens when you check your ego and still want to do your plan?
[00:52:05] Like well actually
[00:52:07] If you check your ego and
[00:52:09] You see that their plan is gonna get to the same outcome
[00:52:12] You'll do their plan and it was probably how often would you do that my answer was
[00:52:15] 100% of the time or or it and it like is often is humanly possible
[00:52:23] And just the only
[00:52:26] The only barrier to the things your child of a copeless the barrier to consensus is you
[00:52:32] It's
[00:52:33] If as long as you're aligned as long as you're going to the same place
[00:52:38] The only reason why you won't do it
[00:52:40] Their way is your ego and the minute you agree to do it their way you have alignment and consensus and you're moving
[00:52:47] And it's your life gets so much better
[00:52:50] Yeah because when I want to do it my way in Dave wants to do it Dave's way and I spend nine hours trying to present my case
[00:52:57] And he's arguing against me and he's actually going to do some research and bringing back some facts and figures
[00:53:01] We already executed plan
[00:53:03] And I said hey Dave that looks pretty good go with it and by the way also now when I say hey Dave
[00:53:08] Dude your plan looks awesome. Let's roll with it. How can I support and then two hours later go hey Dave
[00:53:13] There's this thing over here. Do you think I could adjust this? What's your attitude your attitude to? Oh, yeah, absolutely
[00:53:18] Make my plan even better right that's what we're doing and you mentioned it the only time that we're the only time
[00:53:25] I can't come to consensus with you if like I'm not getting there
[00:53:30] If we can't figure out like my plan or your plan
[00:53:32] I need to say okay way way way way way second
[00:53:34] What what where do you actually want to go when we know are we aligned because if we're not actually going to the wrong to the same play if we're going to the same place
[00:53:42] Subordinate your ego and let's go. I'm good totally. This sounds like a great plan Dave
[00:53:46] My day is gonna take an extra two hours cool. I'm net five hours gained because I didn't spend seven hours arguing
[00:53:58] Different orientations also result in different attitudes towards identifying and weighing risk
[00:54:03] This may lead to behavior that is surprising to us for example Chinese and Russian ships
[00:54:08] And aircraft have maneuvered in close proximity to US forces which appears to us as unnecessary
[00:54:14] unnecessarily dangerous and operating against agreed international protocols
[00:54:18] We may especially view such behavior as strange when we think of ourselves as at peace with them
[00:54:25] Taking these risk might look quite different from another viewpoint operating this way may seem just divide to those who see them
[00:54:32] selves in a condition of war without bloodshed or embracing without fighting
[00:54:38] Finally different cultures produce different mind sets
[00:54:43] As mentioned above culture is a system of beliefs values and behavioral norms that operate in the background below the level of conscious awareness
[00:54:53] This produces a frame of mind that seeks to make the right choice in a given situation with right being defined
[00:54:59] By these background factors. They have they've both those rights in quotes
[00:55:05] This produces a frame of mind that seeks to make the quote right this choice in a given situation with quote right being defined by those back background factors
[00:55:14] This is all also often labeled intuition
[00:55:19] When somebody makes an intuitive choice while within their own culture the choices often judged as correct by others from that culture
[00:55:24] This is because the criteria they used to determine if correct aligns with the beliefs values and norms that originally informed the intuitive choice
[00:55:32] However people from a different culture have different judging criteria
[00:55:37] Originating from different values beliefs and norms which leads them to intuitive choices
[00:55:41] likely quite different from ours
[00:55:43] It will be difficult for people to explain why they made these choices because the criteria they used are below conscious thoughts
[00:56:00] That's why
[00:56:02] When you are building a team
[00:56:05] That's why culture is the
[00:56:08] purest form of decentralized command because
[00:56:14] Because they're making decisions without even without even thinking about it and they're making the right decisions if the culture is there
[00:56:20] They can make a decision without even thinking about it without even thinking about it. They're making the right decision with that with no thought because the culture is strong
[00:56:28] That's what we're trying to do. Hey, should I should I cut corners on this safety protocol?
[00:56:35] No actually I'm not even thinking about I'm gonna do the right thing. Hey Dave actually. Hey you can't go out there without your proper PPE
[00:56:41] Oh, yeah, sorry got it
[00:56:44] Not you know I'm not gonna say anything. Well if the culture is there the decisions already made
[00:56:49] The decisions already made we're doing the right thing think about that with everything that you're doing inside your organization
[00:56:54] Your culture should drive decision making all the way down to the front line troops
[00:57:00] And if you don't have good culture, what do you end up with apple grave?
[00:57:03] Yeah, you end up with some front line troops that are out there on their own. They don't have good culture and they do dumb things
[00:57:12] Dumb things that have a negative strategic impact and I don't feel that that worked around lightly
[00:57:21] Yeah, and of course I wrote DC in the margins as you're reading that I write down DC and you're coming back to that and you even went like
[00:57:27] That's a you're talking deep decentralized I mean all the way down at the highest level of your if you're running a team and just
[00:57:37] The basic level of decentralized command is what that culture allows them to do is make decisions without asking you questions
[00:57:44] You know in the first step of your decentralized command is well, I've got seven people on my team
[00:57:48] I can't be with them all the time and I need them to do stuff without me. How do I make that happen?
[00:57:53] The culture's what allows that to happen so they don't go
[00:57:55] Hmm
[00:57:57] Maybe it's a call, Jocco to see what I should do in the situation. I don't have to call you because I know what to do
[00:58:02] So it's the most basic level there and then
[00:58:06] That there's just a little warning inside there though. That's just that tiny little warning that you're highlighted is oh by the way right is in quotes
[00:58:13] It's just
[00:58:15] Let's not
[00:58:17] Let's not be so committed to our culture that we don't recognize that that has to evolve over time as well and then we don't have to just like you said
[00:58:25] Write down and make sure hey are are are my people not even critically thinking about anything anymore
[00:58:31] Those decisions that are subconscious and so natural
[00:58:35] Am I at the point now where where they are almost like devoid of consciousness of content of contemplating is this
[00:58:41] the right thing to do in the big picture and
[00:58:43] and
[00:58:45] That the orientation peeing. I'm just pulling it back to the orientation of when it's it's almost perceived like an error when somebody on my team
[00:58:53] The team that have to go culture they do something that's that's an outlier
[00:58:57] It's like a it's like the crash on the computer like it is so obvious in this operating system. We have a massive error and everybody sees it
[00:59:04] But they submit this point of like
[00:59:06] The it might they might not even be able to explain why they did it because it's below the level of consciousness they are seeing something
[00:59:14] Their perception is different
[00:59:16] And
[00:59:17] That's a that is that is a warning
[00:59:20] Yes, it's a warning that they're that their culture is not there. That's right. I got two things on this number one
[00:59:27] This is just a classic example that happened today
[00:59:31] Jamie
[00:59:32] Operations director Ashillon front
[00:59:34] I'm talking to Pete
[00:59:37] Origin and we're going over something and Jamie calls me. I'll call you back. You know give me five I text her
[00:59:47] Talking to Pete
[00:59:49] 45 seconds later. I was two minutes later
[00:59:51] She texted me don't worry
[00:59:53] uh made the call
[00:59:55] And you know what I wrote back
[00:59:57] Approved I don't even know what the call was I don't know what she was talking about but I know that Jamie
[01:00:02] She called me kind of probably is just like a basic check but then she's like I've got this yeah
[01:00:08] That's number one now
[01:00:10] Number two. I used to I used to give this example of
[01:00:14] decentralized command extreme ownership
[01:00:18] of I try to think of the most extreme example of
[01:00:23] where I'm
[01:00:25] the CEO of a manufacturing company
[01:00:29] and
[01:00:31] There's a thousand people that work
[01:00:34] in each one of my
[01:00:36] 10 factories so there are 10 thousand people and one of those people has a job where they're in a room by themselves
[01:00:45] And their job is to take part a and put it on top of part b and and that's it take part a
[01:00:53] Put it on top of part b and let it go
[01:00:57] And if that person screws that up
[01:01:00] And doesn't do it right
[01:01:02] How can that be my fault right how can that possibly be my fault and there's there's
[01:01:09] It's it's really easy to fall on the chop of what I actually did I mean you've got 10 factories
[01:01:13] They have a thousand people each this is one person that's literally the front line this is a minimum wage individual
[01:01:19] How can that possibly be your fault and
[01:01:22] That's that's a that's a
[01:01:24] The reasoning behind that is pretty that's pretty good logic look there's 10 thousand people
[01:01:32] In 10 factories there's one guy in one room he's the lowest paid guy and he screws up this
[01:01:39] This job how can that possibly be my fault you know what?
[01:01:43] I can't be my fault you know fire the guy move on
[01:01:47] That's one thing and I can fire the guy and move on right here's the problem with that what did I change
[01:01:51] What did I change anything so if I if I take extreme ownership of that and say hey listen here's what's going on
[01:02:00] I didn't get the guy trained upon as well as I should have I didn't explain to or you know
[01:02:04] It's not in the system it's not in the training I haven't said a proper training
[01:02:07] I don't have the manager explaining why it's important for a to go on top of b
[01:02:11] I haven't given the training I haven't screened my people properly because maybe this guy just isn't capable
[01:02:16] Maybe doesn't have the the cognitive capacity to do that function that's also my fault
[01:02:20] So so all these things and all these things are things that I will change
[01:02:25] And that's going to make us moving the right direction and look at my gonna ever get to a point where no one's going to make a mistake
[01:02:30] In that room on those no I'm not but I'm gonna mitigate it as much as possible every single time and that's
[01:02:36] infinitely better than saying oh, it's not my fault that's a front line guy fireman move on no
[01:02:40] Take ownership of it. How can we prevent this from happening so I always that was kind of my example of how I could really
[01:02:46] Isolate someone that's just totally detached. I was talking to a company the other day and I was like I think I think this one might be even better
[01:02:55] if
[01:02:57] one of my seals
[01:02:59] At my training command where I've got 150 seals one of my seals
[01:03:06] Get drunk out in town and get into a fight and get arrested
[01:03:12] How can that possibly be my fault
[01:03:14] And maybe it's easier to understand of course
[01:03:17] What have I done wrong? I haven't explained why it's important not to get in trouble
[01:03:21] I haven't explained no behavior. I haven't explained how it impacts negatively impacts the team
[01:03:25] I haven't explained how it negatively impacts the training that you're supposed to be teaching
[01:03:30] I haven't explained to him how how important it is for his family and how this is gonna get him busted and how it's gonna get him to lose pay
[01:03:37] And I haven't explained that your negative impact to the teams impacts America by the way
[01:03:46] And so look him I got to prevent every person from you know every guy on my command from ever no
[01:03:50] I'm at least going to make efforts to prevent that from happening and what's the best way to do that the best way to do that is through culture
[01:03:57] The best way to do that is through culture is by saying listen our mission here is to get these guys trained up
[01:04:04] So they can go and be prepared to go overseas do the mission and bring all the guys home as much as humanly
[01:04:12] possible that's what our mission is everything else doesn't even doesn't even come close
[01:04:17] That's what we do that's what we do
[01:04:19] That's what we do every single day. We save our friends lives every day by giving them the best training
[01:04:25] You gotta get that culture
[01:04:27] So that's all me
[01:04:29] And so on me as a leader and I got X I got to look at the culture. I got to step take a step back and say what is the culture and am I gonna be able to change it overnight?
[01:04:34] No, I'm not is any leader gonna be able to change it overnight? No, we're not
[01:04:38] But do you need to start shifting in and right direction? Yes, you do and by the way who's in charge of culture at an organization every single person that's there
[01:04:45] If you're no if you're in an organization you're you are the culture the way you act impacts the culture the way you think impacts the culture the way you behave impacts the culture
[01:04:55] And that's that should be empowering
[01:05:00] That should make you feel good that look my boss acts like an idiot doesn't matter our culture doesn't I'm not gonna act like an idiot
[01:05:12] What you tolerate
[01:05:14] impacts the culture you're telling that story. I'm just thinking about why Marines don't wear flip-flops on base
[01:05:19] And what you tolerate in back to culture
[01:05:21] I mean that that whole story I mean
[01:05:27] Echo what what was and I am embarrassed I'm losing the word we're talking about last time when you when you
[01:05:33] Eda don't it you convince yourself it's okay. It's not justification. What's the word that you you've tell yourself
[01:05:38] Association now when you when you can visualize the rationalization and
[01:05:43] The talk about it last time is like how that's all those are all lies you tell yourself you rationalize you justified is
[01:05:48] Hey there are 10,000 people in this company come on man. I'm one guy
[01:05:55] What do you really expect from I'm supposed to now manage the junior guy at the farthest away plan on a different time zone it's just and
[01:06:05] That's scenario we get asked that question some from the question all the time and there's a rationalization of I can't I can't actually do that
[01:06:13] And when you rationalize at or
[01:06:15] Confincious off of that what happens is nothing changes nothing. There's nothing changes
[01:06:20] And how easy does it go? Well look at this scenario. Dude. It's not four people in the same room. It's
[01:06:25] That's my overseas plant with a different country in a different but
[01:06:29] Cool you can rationalize your way out of it and guess what's gonna happen? A's not gonna go on top of B and that product isn't gonna work
[01:06:36] There was a little like guideline that I kind of implemented obviously on a very low level
[01:06:43] But when when you were you talk about extreme long time when you talk about extreme ownership and those kinds of scenarios where it's like on the surface
[01:06:50] It's real obvious that's not your responsibility seemingly right?
[01:06:53] Okay, okay
[01:06:55] Yes, sir is it okay. Yeah, so basically the little guidelines would be like okay
[01:07:00] Don't look at it like whose fault it is or isn't just consider that automatically it's your like
[01:07:05] Let's say you weren't even part of the whole situation you're just some outside consult it
[01:07:09] I don't know consultant whatever
[01:07:10] Let's say you were tasked with hey from an external perspective
[01:07:15] What moves can you make to be sure that that never happens again?
[01:07:19] So instead of like because you know when you say extreme long time I'm gonna take the blame that blame kind of indicates that like
[01:07:26] Ooh, you should get in trouble kind of a thing which can kind of trigger some people
[01:07:30] I think it makes people scared. Yeah, it makes people scared but you shouldn't be scared because who do I want?
[01:07:37] Who do I want working for me?
[01:07:40] Dave that comes in and says hey project failed because the contractors didn't do their job or Echoes that says hey project failed because I didn't do a good job
[01:07:48] Managing the contractors to make sure they held the line. Yeah, fully so the so like I said like
[01:07:54] It's your way to get to the point where you can understand okay
[01:07:57] This is on me is to kind of use that guideline like pretending your head kind of thing like mid
[01:08:03] What if you're tasked with making sure it never happened again and that's what all those little things that you would always say
[01:08:08] It started to make so much more sense where it's like oh, yeah because there is a scenario where that guy who's putting trying to put a on top of B
[01:08:14] We're we're like
[01:08:16] He straight up just doesn't like you. He doesn't like this company
[01:08:19] He doesn't even want the job. He just his grandma
[01:08:21] Okay, they get it you know all this stuff right and he should not be there. Yeah, who's fault is that he's there?
[01:08:27] I bet again listen all look at it. Who's fault? I'm saying as far as my little guy like so no, this isn't a guideline what this is
[01:08:33] It's the little this is a nice little crunch crunch
[01:08:37] That kind of helps you move towards this direction so if your ego has a hard time saying this was my fault
[01:08:44] If you need the crutch of like okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna look at this and just see what I can do to make sure that doesn't happen again
[01:08:50] Yeah, if you need that crutch
[01:08:52] Go for it and maybe echo Charles is gonna write a book called
[01:08:59] How to sort and take ownership of some stuff without feeling bad about it. Okay. Okay. The last part was acceptable
[01:09:05] But here's the thing
[01:09:07] Oh
[01:09:08] Okay, yeah, you like
[01:09:10] The crunch
[01:09:12] Echo sort of leaves it
[01:09:14] In you way I'm just saying that will help solve the problem of these scenarios where it's like how could I possibly?
[01:09:24] Be responsible for XYZ like that that to me
[01:09:29] Made it like a lot more clear way more automatically. Yeah, made it easier for you to digest
[01:09:36] A little bit of sugar with the medicine
[01:09:38] It's okay next section how rivals view the competitive environment rivals operating from within different systems often perceive that they are under threat
[01:09:47] Especially
[01:09:48] Competitors with all four terian governments
[01:09:51] Regime survival is usually the top priority in these states. Yeah, look at look at North Korea how it's all just like we're good
[01:09:57] We are about to be attacked
[01:10:01] These rivals also look for opportunities to reduce perceived threats while also working to expand their competitive options
[01:10:07] Our rivals constantly study the elements of US national power in an effort to exploit to either
[01:10:14] Either to offset UF's advantages or to find scenes to exploit for example
[01:10:19] The Soviet Union during the Cold War developed in the elaborate system to measure the correlation of forces between the United States and the USSR
[01:10:26] Which was further broken down in a correlation of economic forces the correlation of military forces et cetera the thought process
[01:10:31] heavily influences Russia today as they continue to deeply study the United States Sunshu's famous statement know you're in me and know yourself
[01:10:38] Highlights a perhaps even deeper cultural imperative for China to study the United States in the West damn that's true
[01:10:45] Finally
[01:10:46] Some rivals have a different outlook about the legitimacy of using aggressive action
[01:10:52] Like offensive cyber operations interference in other states in internal politics
[01:10:57] Disinformation et cetera can tell this is a recently written document to change the status quo in international relations
[01:11:04] their actions
[01:11:06] Their actions show they do not feel bound by standing international agreements and norms unless they can use those agreements
[01:11:15] To their advantage instead their behavior shows they recognize
[01:11:19] Resource constraints or hard power to turn as they only kind of limits they might respect
[01:11:25] This is when you're playing by different rules basically this is when two people two countries are playing by two different rules
[01:11:31] And there's just violations. I know that's one of your favorite words echo Charles violations people do violations
[01:11:39] That they can kind of know that they can get away with and
[01:11:43] We are sitting here like well, you're not allowed to do that. They're like what do you think we're doing?
[01:11:48] I'm almost one of those. What do you think I'm doing? Of course, of course, I'm going to heal you we're wearing ghee
[01:11:55] Well, you know we're grappling kind of right?
[01:12:01] Differing approach to competition campaigning
[01:12:05] This is the next section all the above leads to a permanent struggle mindset
[01:12:12] It's a good way to go through life with a permanent struggle mindset
[01:12:15] This is like enduring competition is what we're calling it. Hey, we're always competing they're calling it permanent struggle
[01:12:23] Do you think the word struggle has a connolly call like a like a like a flavor of like you're losing does it kind of imply that you're kind of losing?
[01:12:33] I think I get what you're saying I get yes, I think I think you get what you're saying
[01:12:38] Yeah, it gives you the impression that we're the underdog
[01:12:40] Yeah, we are struggling right if you were to say we if you say I'm struggling
[01:12:46] That that doesn't mean I'm winning yeah, right?
[01:12:50] That's a different scenario yeah struggling. So yes, so when you end up with a permanent struggle mindset we are behind
[01:13:00] And it continues on there is no at peace condition even when they choose to cooperate in a particular area
[01:13:05] So even when it's like even when I work in with to this trade deal cool there's still a struggle going on behind the scenes
[01:13:11] It will be question it will it becomes a question of when and how they will compete not if they will be competing
[01:13:19] With this month with this as the mindset the tools used to create competitive advantages are limited only by human creativity and
[01:13:26] Available resources these rivals might take an action primarily to advance their economy
[01:13:30] But they also will attempt to leverage that action to gain an advantage this mindset causes them to try and
[01:13:37] Exploit that any chance they see a more emerging
[01:13:40] When they believe their competitors are distracted by other world events they will seize on any opportunity this presents
[01:13:49] Distraction distracted by other events
[01:13:51] It's so obvious how this stuff plays out every single day in the news
[01:14:01] The following are common characteristics of our rivals approach to competition is a bunch of bullet points strong central command and control
[01:14:11] Clear strategic goals
[01:14:13] You know, people talk about China and just these they're like if they're playing this massively long strategic game
[01:14:19] They're playing the way long game. They don't care. They're looking at their people like oh yeah kind of like oh, it's so whatever
[01:14:26] Look we got some people that are working as slaves or human rights or horrible or we got to eliminate this group
[01:14:32] No factor. We're playing the long strategic game here. We got a game to win
[01:14:37] Clear strategic goals powerful narratives
[01:14:41] Hello propaganda weaponizing benign activities and
[01:14:46] They actually gave a big example what that was all about like weaponizing like tourists and cutting off tourists from going to certain areas recruitment
[01:14:56] of ethnic
[01:14:58] deasporous
[01:15:00] so
[01:15:02] Those are fleeing ethnic groups. I'll find out who's kind of been hard dumb by and see if we can bring them into the fold
[01:15:09] Domination of ethnic media interference in local politics strong enforcement action
[01:15:14] Fostering relationships with local groups including criminal and terrorist organizations assertion of extra territorial rights
[01:15:22] Intelligence and covert operations encouragement of dependencies powerful military cover
[01:15:28] Expanded concept of combined arms acceptance of high levels of risk
[01:15:33] Postured for the long term
[01:15:36] They combine these characteristics in a novel and innovative ways to pursue their goals while taking advantage of United States
[01:15:42] And it's allies at blind spots and then they have parentheses like being quote at peace
[01:15:48] That's like a blind spot for us. Oh, or a piece. We're not at war with them
[01:15:54] I think what you know
[01:15:57] From from this whole this whole time we've been talking about
[01:16:01] Winning without the enemy know that they were even fighting
[01:16:04] They don't want to provoke us. They want us to be like thinking everything is cool and meanwhile there's maneuver's happening
[01:16:10] Arrival concept for competition next section the idea of a theory of victory applied to competition
[01:16:21] Warfighting explains how the Marine Corps uses maneuver warfare to shatter an enemy's cohesion throughout
[01:16:27] Through a variety of rapid focused and unexpected actions
[01:16:31] Which create turbulent and rapid
[01:16:33] Turbulent and rapidly deteriorating situation with which the enemy cannot cope?
[01:16:40] That's a good idea rapid focused on expected actions. That's what we're trying to do
[01:16:45] This is maneuver warfare's theory of victory to splinter the enemy's system so that it can no longer function effectively
[01:16:54] We can apply the idea of a theory of victory to competition to discern how rivals approach it each rival
[01:17:00] Use his own theory of in competition, but we can make some useful generalizations Marines can use to analyze
[01:17:08] Specific competitors first each of this class of rivals governs itself through an a third a
[01:17:13] Thoritarian power structure with regime survival as its top priority
[01:17:17] This heavily influences all the other competitive choices made both domestically and internationally in these rival theories
[01:17:24] Next these rivals strive to avoid war with the United States
[01:17:28] That's what I just said and its allies
[01:17:32] Note that war is not the same as violence
[01:17:35] These rivals will selectively crossover the threshold of violence against the United States or its allies and partners
[01:17:41] But we'll be careful to keep a tight reign on it so it does not escalate into war
[01:17:46] These discrete pulses of violence can be useful for boundary stretching and decree hesitation
[01:17:52] This is not a fixed principle as rivals continue to study the United States. They may come a time when when they believe
[01:17:58] Bading the United States or its allies into war gives them an advantage
[01:18:02] If they also believe they have developed the strength to prevail a little learning there a little warning
[01:18:08] With these two principles as background our rivals approach competition as a constant state of being so every decision and
[01:18:15] Action affects it thus they are either setting conditions that will make it easier to achieve their goals
[01:18:21] Or they are reaching their goals through slow increments or operant tunistic lunges
[01:18:30] They're they're they're this is what they're doing they're constantly paying attention to this
[01:18:36] They constantly have this massive strategic goal way down the line that they're playing that long long long-long game
[01:18:43] We can summarize their their theory of victory and competition like this these rivals think of the relationship as winning without fighting
[01:18:53] Hmm or winning war before it starts and not as competition
[01:19:00] Regime survival is the number one goal and they believe their regime is costly under threat
[01:19:04] So competition is one of perpetual struggle every action
[01:19:08] They take shapes the environment to make it easier to reach their goals either domestically or internationally and this environment
[01:19:14] They are they are either incrementally moving toward their goals or on alert to seize one if an opportunity presents itself
[01:19:23] So that's what we've got a pay attention to
[01:19:27] Wrap up this chapter with the conclusion to
[01:19:30] To compete effectively Marines need to focus their potential on their potential competitors especially those who see themselves as rivals
[01:19:39] To the United States and it's allies truly understanding these potential rivals require serious reflection and critical thinking
[01:19:44] The Udalu offers a model to examine why and how rivals approach competition differently the strength of orientation affects all aspects of the model
[01:19:52] The elements contained in a person's groups or in a person or groups orientation
[01:19:57] Work in the background it takes deep study to first identify these elements and then learn how they affect the decisions and actions or rival takes
[01:20:08] And then it just goes on there are their mindset of perpetual struggle means they are constantly shaping the environment to make it easier for them to reach their goals
[01:20:18] It also means they constantly take incremental steps toward their goals while remaining alert for the chance to
[01:20:23] Pounce on them if an opportunity arises. That's a tough competitor. That's a tough competitor constantly constantly making maneuvers
[01:20:35] And now we move into chapter five the conduct of competition
[01:20:41] The challenge the challenge is to develop a
[01:20:44] concept of
[01:20:45] Competition of former means that stays in balance with our preparation for war remains consistent with our understanding of the nature and theory of competition and
[01:20:53] accounts for the realities of international strategic competition
[01:20:57] So we got to be but this is a big balancing thing we're working on
[01:21:02] maneuver warfare is influence Marines can use maneuver warfare principles to great effect in competition
[01:21:10] We still seek to achieve our goals in a flexible and opportunistic way
[01:21:15] That's a beautiful statement about leadership that's a beautiful statement about leadership
[01:21:20] Not just about maneuver or forever leadership. You seek to achieve your goals in a flexible and opportunistic way
[01:21:26] Isn't it way better for me to say oh Dave you want to
[01:21:31] You want to go into that market area? Great. I'll tell you what run with it
[01:21:37] That's an opportunity for me to grow the business based on Dave's
[01:21:41] Drive
[01:21:43] And by the way, I was thinking about going somewhere else, but Dave wants to go there cool that flexible
[01:21:47] We seek to achieve a relative temple advantage that we can gain the initiative
[01:21:55] Marines in depth understanding of the Udalupe is relevant everywhere on the competition continuum
[01:22:03] Marines should not seek to reinvent maneuver warfare for competition
[01:22:07] But rather think through how it can be applied across the competition continuum and
[01:22:12] Not just to the continuum's subset that deals with war and the various forms of warfare
[01:22:22] Orienting on the competitor next section orienting on the competitor is fundamental to successful competition
[01:22:29] We develop our understanding of the competitor system and then exploit the weaknesses we find in it
[01:22:36] I dread that with a wrong voice
[01:22:38] Sorry to the United States Marine Corps. Let me re-hash that we develop our understanding of the competitor system and then exploit the weaknesses
[01:22:49] We find in it
[01:22:51] Much better
[01:22:52] We develop models of the rival system and
[01:22:56] Then use these models to share our understanding of it with others
[01:22:59] We then develop ways to test our model in the real world real world
[01:23:03] We observe our tests then use feedback from these observations to improve the model Marines learn about the Udalupe
[01:23:10] Early in their service, which helps them move through the cycle smoothly
[01:23:14] War fighting teaches that we should try to get inside and adversaries and thought processes and
[01:23:20] See them as they see themselves
[01:23:22] So that we can set them up for defeat. There's Dave Burke
[01:23:27] Adversary wing commander. What was your name adversary officer?
[01:23:30] I
[01:23:32] Kind of elevated you got like when can and that's
[01:23:36] That's that's beautiful thing we take you and we say your job is to think like the enemy yep
[01:23:41] It's cool at at trade at we did that too
[01:23:44] We didn't do it on in such an official manner, but it was okay trade at opposing force guys the guys that were working directly for me at trade at
[01:23:53] You're gonna go and act like the enemy did you call it red cell if I have that we called it up for up for yeah
[01:23:58] I've heard of the different terms. Yeah, I think it's all the same thing. It's you behave
[01:24:02] Like the enemy partially is it's it gives you your guys realistic training
[01:24:06] But it also is to think why are they doing the things that they're doing why would they
[01:24:09] acquire the weapons and do the formations there's a whole bunch of reasons why you would do that yeah, and then what's cool is
[01:24:15] Because we'd read AR's what the enemy did you know the enemy started using false walls
[01:24:19] We started using false walls the enemy did bear kitties. We do it so we would follow the reports and do it they did but what's really cool to is when you're when you're up for
[01:24:28] You can see what it looks like you can see what our tactics look like you see with a strength and weaknesses are see
[01:24:34] You see how obvious it is when a guy's doing something stupid. I'm never gonna do that. Yeah
[01:24:39] I was just gonna say it keeps you from falling into the trap of thinking everything they're doing is stupid
[01:24:44] Because everything they're doing is different right like we see that you're saying the enemy the enemy
[01:24:48] Yeah, I mean it that that so we don't fall in the trap of oh they're doing this. That's dumb
[01:24:53] We'd never do that and being dismissive of the fact that that move that they are making which we probably wouldn't make
[01:24:59] Oh, hang on
[01:25:01] Why are they all nice that's exactly and there's those moments of oh hey hang on a second
[01:25:07] This is why they're doing that and if you don't put yourself in their eyes the easy trap that you go trappers
[01:25:12] Let's dumb what do they know what end that's the one that's why it's all centered around orientation is if you understand
[01:25:19] They're perspective your far less likely
[01:25:22] We have this saying like when we see something that we don't think is it concerned us we scoff it scoff
[01:25:28] Hey, he did this scoff no factor don't care and over time what you will do is everything that's sort of different from what you would do
[01:25:36] Is wrong that's like the classic ego responses you didn't do it the way I do it you're wrong. Let's just scoff term
[01:25:42] Can you explain that's me again?
[01:25:43] So let's say you and I are fighting in our airplanes and you do some move you beam out to the west
[01:25:48] Are you flanking some direction and I think it's you know?
[01:25:50] It's not a concern to me. I'll scoff that move. I don't even acknowledge it don't even care do whatever you want scoff no factor no factor
[01:25:56] Because I'm always isn't it isn't an arrogant move?
[01:26:00] Well, it it can be there are times I actually don't want to respond to what you're doing
[01:26:05] You might be baiting me into something making a bad decision
[01:26:07] You might be pulling me into a place that I don't think I want to go so there are times that I want to dismiss just I'm not gonna react to that
[01:26:13] I'm not going to respond to your move, but if it's habitual and
[01:26:18] I determine every single time you do something it's no factor
[01:26:22] sooner or later it actually will be a factor and one of the ways that we counter that is the orientation of
[01:26:27] Recognizing while they're doing that and what that's what I got to do is the officer officer is think like them
[01:26:31] And then hey, this way I did that and we would build scenarios the training scenarios against the students I would create those
[01:26:37] I help create those we're turning this we're turning that we're doing all these things to try to get to this outcome
[01:26:42] And if the student could dissect and understand that then he understands what's going on and if not then he doesn't and that's a bad thing
[01:26:49] Chuck
[01:26:51] Continuing on it is essential that we understand our adversary on their own terms
[01:26:56] We should not assume that every adversary thinks as we do competes we do or shares our values and objectives
[01:27:03] Marines in the Marine Corps are strong tools for our nation to compel or deter our rivals as discussed in chapter two
[01:27:09] We know that the target of our compelence or deterrence must cooperate
[01:27:15] Even if they're unwilling if we are to be effective
[01:27:19] Our knowledge of the competitor system will help us understand their thinking
[01:27:22] Enough to make good judgments on how we can force this possible unwilling cooperation
[01:27:29] That's such a good
[01:27:31] Such a strange way of putting it unwilling cooperation, but it happens happens in the jutsu
[01:27:37] Like I start to choke you echo you have to defend your neck. It's unwilling, but you you got to do it
[01:27:45] Wait, that's the same as coercion right?
[01:27:47] Yeah, similar
[01:27:49] Marines in the Marine Corps are also strong tools in a strategy of attraction
[01:27:54] We can demonstrate our national values through efforts such as humanitarian assistance programs providing highly credible
[01:27:59] Support to the informational element of national power Marines regularly play a large role in
[01:28:04] Building and then sustaining relationships with allies and partners strong networks such as these increase our competitive options and create challenges for our competitors
[01:28:14] Next section shaping the action our competition goals are derived from our vital national interests and we must think ahead if Marines are to support reaching these goals
[01:28:25] Boy if you're in charge of a company don't you hope and pray that everyone in your company every division in your company
[01:28:31] Everyone on your team is thinking about your vital interests inside your organization
[01:28:37] and thinking ahead we establish that what we want to accomplish why and how this provides a vision for
[01:28:46] Succeeding in competition which in turn helps align the actions taken towards reaching the goals
[01:28:55] In both the near and long-term we orient on our competitor to develop our understanding of their system
[01:29:02] We continually refine our models of their system so that we can focus on their weaknesses including increasing our understanding of how their culture affects their decision making process
[01:29:11] Man, you got to know what your competitors thinking
[01:29:14] They just say this over and over again
[01:29:16] Similarly, we must try to see ourselves through our competitors eyes in order to identify our own vulnerabilities that makes that they may try to exploit
[01:29:26] To influence the future we consider how we can exploit our competitors weakness while protecting our own
[01:29:31] This usually takes the form of planning
[01:29:35] I think beyond planning it takes the
[01:29:37] Takes the form should take the form or at least extend to the form of a war gaming or
[01:29:42] Red selling or whatever you want to call it totally
[01:29:46] Forsoin force training our
[01:29:49] Plans will not always produce a detailed time-tailed move of events as we accept that competition's may unfold over a long time
[01:29:56] Instead, we attempt to shape the general conditions of the competition since marine support our larger national competitive effort
[01:30:03] We first need you to determine who we are supporting this support limited only by our imaginations and available resources can take a variety of forms
[01:30:12] Across all our operating domains for example our force posture exists in all domains and can contribute to the deterrence in these domains
[01:30:20] Through the diplomatic and informational elements of power it can also improve relationships with our allies and partners
[01:30:27] Force posture can help develop ties with partner militaries that lead to attracting top performing international officers to our service schools
[01:30:35] Which further deep in the relationship expanding relationship like this shapes our campaign of competition by increasing the potential number of competitive action
[01:30:43] We can take think about what you can do inside your organization if you're in business
[01:30:47] If you just take that section about working with other people get training other what if you took people from other companies?
[01:30:54] Maybe maybe not quite competitors, but maybe competitors and you brought them up more and you train them and you help them you develop a relationship and you find out that there are various weaknesses
[01:31:04] That you could help them and maybe you have some areas weakness they could imagine if you took that long-term strategic vision of how to grow
[01:31:12] your influence
[01:31:14] Look man that's kind of that's
[01:31:17] That's kind of my career in a nutshell this this exchange thing or this this sharing of information your main core my Marine core career so
[01:31:26] When as a Marine I spent so much of my time not being in a traditional Marine core role and
[01:31:32] You know early on in flight school like the Marine core goes to Navy flight training
[01:31:36] So we're very similar and it's it's not a Marine core center thing
[01:31:39] But even in my my experience you know my first four years in the Marine core I was in a Marine core squadron
[01:31:44] But we were attached to a carrier so we spent a lot of time with the Navy doing things in Navy way and then when I went to Top Gun
[01:31:50] That's a Navy command. I was basically kind of an exchange officer
[01:31:53] So I'm kind of really seeing how the other services do it
[01:31:56] I did a full Air Force exchange where I was basically in the Air Force for three and a half years
[01:32:01] I command about Air Force Division as a Marine to serve the Air Force and then
[01:32:06] My all these different things that I did a very much
[01:32:10] Interacted as an exchange to other services and what it got me out of is kind of that classic Marine core echo chamber of
[01:32:16] This is how the Marine core operates and I learned so much and just that sharing of information from and
[01:32:22] Rivals is a strong word we were not rivals, but the Air Force and the Navy Marine core are different
[01:32:27] So we're all looking for the same end, but the point you just made of the power of that
[01:32:31] I'm probably not gonna go to a rival company that doesn't gonna want to give me their people but inside different divisions that have kind of
[01:32:38] Competing interest inside your own organization and getting one guy from marketing to go spend six months on the operation side or one
[01:32:45] Getting you know a couple guys thing operations
[01:32:46] I spend some time with sales where they see it and truly understand what's going on the power of that inside your organization
[01:32:52] So you don't just buy off on the narrative of listen you join the Marine core
[01:32:56] You're not gonna get a lot of feedback that Marine core isn't doing everything right until you get out of the Marine core
[01:33:01] Go oh damn you guys are doing things a lot differently than us and that seems to be working really well and of course vice-versa
[01:33:06] But I think there's a ton of power that I was really lucky in my experience to get to do that way more than most Marines get to do and
[01:33:13] It it helped me individually it helped the services and it helped the Marine core. It was awesome
[01:33:18] Yeah, old school ship board deployments that I did working with the Marine core
[01:33:22] That's so lucky. I was working with you know calling in battalions and working with the airway airwings on the on the
[01:33:29] Flat top and just was so awesome for me and I learned so much. It was ridiculous
[01:33:34] It's so easy to create a story or a narrative in your mind of how dumb everything else is when you don't experience it
[01:33:43] And it's so it happens so naturally in your subconscious of the differences means they're wrong
[01:33:49] And the minute you spend some time over there doing it and you see from the perspective the orientation changes
[01:33:55] You think you see how vibe on is whether it's your competitors whether it's your peers whatever it is
[01:34:00] That change in perspective that change in orientation immediately reveals a whole bunch of things
[01:34:05] You would never see if you just look at it from your perspective and I'm like dumb I'm not doing that
[01:34:11] That's I was very lucky in my career to get to see that over and over from from different perspectives and changing my orientation of the problem all the time
[01:34:19] Yeah, yeah, if you're no leaders
[01:34:21] A very simple way to do that when your leadership position go down and check out some other. See what they're doing
[01:34:26] Like oh go run that thing through the line go operate that piece of equipment for a half an hour go check out that job site see what's going on
[01:34:34] So many good ways to change your perspective improve your perspective see more
[01:34:39] Next section combined arms combined arms is the full integration of arms in such a way that
[01:34:46] To counteract one the enemy must be more vulnerable to another we pose the enemy
[01:34:52] Not just with a problem, but with the dilemma a no win situation
[01:34:57] This is the way Marines fight and win battles
[01:35:00] This idea also governs how Marines compete even though we broaden no win situations to include careful consideration of positive some options
[01:35:09] Win win options the governing idea is to orchestrate all of our tools together in ways that are most favorable to us
[01:35:19] A combined arms mindset leads wanted to consider how to use multi domain tools for to of all potential partners in an effort to reach one calls
[01:35:28] The ideas to use all available resources to best advantage internal the Marine Corps
[01:35:33] We look to combine complementary characteristics of different types of units create a competitive advantage
[01:35:37] externally we look to combine our capabilities with those of joint force to create advantage
[01:35:42] We apply the same mindset in competition when we combine our capabilities with those of our joint and interagency
[01:35:48] Partners what what is the Marine Corps saying here?
[01:35:51] We're gonna look we're gonna look and utilize and work with and cooperate with as many different
[01:35:56] Elements as we possibly can to to get the best advantage we can over our rivals this
[01:36:07] Same mindset applies to combining the complementary characteristics of Marines with other partners whether they're from other
[01:36:14] US government department or from an allied country
[01:36:16] We orient on the competitor because we want to make sure the combined arms dilemma
[01:36:21] We intend to present in competition is actually a problem for them this
[01:36:27] Mindset leads Marines to develop holistic plans designed to reach specific goals in both war and along the larger competition
[01:36:34] Continuum in competition the idea of combined arms extends through joint force inner agency to allies and partners
[01:36:42] So we don't necessarily have we don't we don't have to be at war at all
[01:36:47] To go out and work and combine our efforts with other
[01:36:53] Other elements that can give us advantages
[01:36:58] Next section campaign of competition
[01:37:02] Embracing the mind embracing the competition mindset leads to the realization that the Marine Corps plays and important
[01:37:08] But supporting role and our nation's various competitions now I have to take a pause there because this idea of supporting role in
[01:37:20] the military
[01:37:22] It's the the word supporting in the military is
[01:37:26] Can be taken as offensive right because what it means is you know if Dave's got a platoon and I've got a platoon
[01:37:33] Dave and Dave is assigned as the supporting platoon and I'm the main effort
[01:37:41] Dave is
[01:37:43] Inferior to me
[01:37:45] That's the backup that's the second string. He's the JV team you can look at throw whatever you want to throw on
[01:37:51] The idea that you're in a supporting role is
[01:37:55] generally viewed as a negative
[01:37:58] especially in in military doctrine
[01:38:01] Well, if you let your ego get totally and what the Marine Corps is doing here is beautiful
[01:38:07] Which is saying hey, we play a important but supporting role. They get it they're like hey, we're supporting. It's fine
[01:38:13] This forms our approach and by the way that was one of the best things that we did in task unit bruiser in Ramadi it was hey we're here to support
[01:38:22] Hey hey battalion commander, Haber Gade commander, hey company commander. We're here to support you
[01:38:28] By the way, we're gonna kill a bunch of bad guys. We're gonna have to freaking do the best operations. We can possibly do
[01:38:35] You want to call supporting cool. We're supporting
[01:38:38] That's fine and by the way by by
[01:38:42] Us being by us supporting a battalion that means that battalion is rolling you know
[01:38:46] Casivac as rolling out tanks is rolling out firesport. We're getting all the air. We're getting everything we want
[01:38:52] We're getting more assets than we could have ever imagined and we're we're supporting them
[01:38:56] It's even though we always said we were supporting
[01:39:00] What we had 13 guys in an Overwatch position mean while they have a battalion out there to help us get to that position get out of that position
[01:39:11] It's amazing. Yeah, but the attitude of hey we're here to support
[01:39:16] Well, that's the attitude that gave you all the flexibility to do what you wanted. It's it's the exact same approach that I took and
[01:39:22] I remember when I first got there I went around all the units in the A or that I had a connection to
[01:39:28] And the the question the literal question I asked all of the commanders was how can I support you and
[01:39:35] What they want to know is well what do you have and
[01:39:38] You know what I had I had
[01:39:40] 80 million dollars worth of airplanes
[01:39:42] That they couldn't have like hey, I've got this this I got Marines. I have we had gun trucks
[01:39:47] So I had I own umbies with 50 cows and more to 240 got so I had a bunch of stuff and it was just
[01:39:54] Any way you want to use these tools I can provide them for you and
[01:39:58] That attitude
[01:40:00] Coming to them is I'm here to support you is
[01:40:04] What led to me kind of being able to do whatever I wanted on the battlefield almost anything
[01:40:10] Had I walked in and be like this is how I operate this is the exact opposite thing
[01:40:15] They you know and the other part of it too is I didn't own any battle space
[01:40:19] I they could have just said you can't come there get off the battle. They could literally could have pushed me off
[01:40:24] I had no authority at all to operate
[01:40:28] We were in the same exact scenario. Yeah same exact approach
[01:40:32] Back to the book this forms are approached to developing our campaigns of competition campaign goals are established by analyzing and
[01:40:39] During interests and how they are being affected by current policy from Marines these goals are further refined
[01:40:44] By aligning them with the theater combat and commander objectives at every point on the competition continuum both in day-to-day operations
[01:40:52] Below the violence threshold and in the event contingencies
[01:40:56] ID and the event of contingencies ideally the theater objectives will be aligned with inner agency goals as well
[01:41:03] So they're really paying attention
[01:41:06] And breaking things down
[01:41:08] By
[01:41:12] Orienting on the competitor we start to develop theories on how we can reach our campaign goals even though we are in competition with our rival
[01:41:22] Marines understanding of the Udalu pleads us to conclude that the campaign choices we make in the planning are
[01:41:28] Hypothesis the campaign actions. We take test these hypothesis and the UdaluPS and the Udalu
[01:41:35] Many feedback loops help us refine our decisions
[01:41:40] The discipline yet creative application of this process is what allows us to gain the initiative in
[01:41:47] Competition and set it simple discipline yet creative
[01:41:52] Discipline yet creative
[01:41:55] Timelines associated with competitive campaigns are often quite long some extent over several decades
[01:42:01] Yeah, that's that's
[01:42:06] That's where it's tough on America
[01:42:08] That's where it's tough on America because our
[01:42:12] Our regimes only last four to eight years that are whack right and then generally there's gonna be a change in regimes
[01:42:19] There's gonna be a different you know a different campaign of competition happening. Yeah, you were talking about
[01:42:25] The long game and you were talking about China was thinking like they measure it and they call them
[01:42:29] Dynasties they're like thousands of years and the history that they have
[01:42:34] Compared to our history in the recognition of hey you're here as part of the long game their version of the long game is a lot different than our version of the long game
[01:42:43] Yeah, and there's also the party
[01:42:47] That's it. Oh, yes, that's part absolutely and that that strategy is gonna stay the same not a not a ton of
[01:42:52] Infidine going on over there. Yeah on that that's a that's a different viewpoint different orientation
[01:43:01] The iterative nature of competition matched to discipline use of the Udalupe will help planners determine how aggressive one should be in pursuit of campaign goals
[01:43:10] acknowledging these long timelines leads us to consider the consistency of our competitive goals
[01:43:14] If we believe we may need to take many small steps towards a goal over the course of months years decades or decades
[01:43:23] Then our objectives should remain relatively stable during that time
[01:43:27] This is why we look first to our national interest before we derive our competition in campaigning goals
[01:43:32] Once those are determined we then decide how Marines can support achieving them
[01:43:36] The campaigning mindset needs to be applied
[01:43:45] When considering competitive activities especially long term thinking and integrating our actions with others
[01:43:51] Consistency and sustainability lead us to consider the pace or tempo of competition
[01:43:57] This tempo is often driven by a cycle of action and counteraction
[01:44:01] Each campaign and I'm skipping through some stuff here each campaign has a narrative which provides context
[01:44:12] And purpose for the competition our narrative competes with that of our rival
[01:44:19] To defeat a competitors narrative we need to replace it with a more persuasive one simply denying someone story may actually reinforce it in the minds of target audience
[01:44:28] You can't just you can't just that that rumor is gonna come
[01:44:34] You got to tell the story you got to tell the right story that is why we need to replace it when they more compelling story
[01:44:39] Sorry next line
[01:44:41] For example
[01:44:43] Two firms may sell an identical commodity their respective narratives will explain why they are the right choice to win the business of a particular customer
[01:44:52] The stronger narrative will displace the weaker one conclusion our
[01:44:58] War fighting philosophy of maneuver warfare is the philosophy that animates our approach to competition as well
[01:45:06] So for for the Marine Corps
[01:45:08] maneuver warfare is the way we are thinking about everything
[01:45:12] Marines take the same flexible and opportunistic approach to competition as they do towards fighting battles
[01:45:18] The most important tenant of maneuver warfare is to orient on the enemy and this influence is also felt in competition
[01:45:25] We orient on our competitor
[01:45:30] Now
[01:45:31] This one when I read this I was like immediately freaked out because I saw it with most important thing of maneuver warfare is is
[01:45:37] To orient on the enemy and I was like oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[01:45:39] Tenet of maneuver warfare
[01:45:42] Because maneuver warfare without leadership doesn't do anything leadership's the most important thing
[01:45:46] But if we want to talk tenants I guess we can break it down that orient
[01:45:52] Orienting on the enemy or
[01:45:55] On the competitor sorry, I'm going straight to war
[01:45:59] I'm all the way there on the continuum we need to develop an understanding of our rival if we are to create an effective plan that will help us prevail in competition
[01:46:07] We must understand their system
[01:46:10] Where it is strong and where it is weak this allows us to shape the environment by developing a clear vision
[01:46:14] For our competitive activities this vision also allows us to identify the partners with whom we need to coordinate
[01:46:24] Marines fight using combined arms and we must compete in the same way
[01:46:29] This is the foundational mindset for determining
[01:46:33] How we can present a dilemma to our competitor
[01:46:36] Marines in a Marine Corps are essential tools and our nation's effort to advance our vital national interest
[01:46:41] The Marine Corps makes its greatest contributions near the threshold of violence
[01:46:46] On the competition continuum this Marine this means that individual Marines
[01:46:52] Need to prepare themselves to act on both sides of that threshold and to do so in disciplined ways that advance the nation's interests
[01:47:01] Here's the closing paragraph
[01:47:05] for
[01:47:06] Podcast deep
[01:47:08] Computing is a way of thinking
[01:47:13] Like maneuver warfare it is a state of mind born of boldness boldness intellect
[01:47:21] Initiative and opportunism
[01:47:25] It's very interesting they you do they really start chiming in on this word opportunism
[01:47:29] They really start chiming in on that word and and if you start to pay attention to that
[01:47:38] You start to pay attention the fact that what you should be looking at forwards opportunities and how often do opportunities go to waste
[01:47:42] You want to talk about our life lesson
[01:47:45] boldness intellect initiative opportunities where they are
[01:47:51] It is about understanding our competitor's systems so that we can develop sustain and adapt our competitive advantage so that the Marine Corps will always be a useful tool
[01:47:58] For the nation in the enduring competition that is the normal state of
[01:48:03] International relations one massive a plug for the Marine Corps long game their plan long game for sure
[01:48:10] That is it that
[01:48:14] That wraps up that wraps up this publication for us
[01:48:18] Um
[01:48:20] I think we probably spent eight or nine hours talking through this book in those this is the fourth podcast
[01:48:25] Didn't do too bad today
[01:48:28] God got only knows how much time and effort
[01:48:33] The Marine Corps took and put into
[01:48:37] Putting this together. I mean what's the man hours behind this
[01:48:43] How many people what what were you saying you think it's six seven eight people I?
[01:48:47] That's what I'm pitching on the team. That's on the team. Yeah, that's in there
[01:48:49] That's in the room. That's got the sections and and then there's someone kind of overseeing the whole thing
[01:48:53] And then it's getting signed off by by the common don't he's read he's he's given guidance
[01:48:59] You can tell the common aunts in the game with this stuff. He's not he's not just signed this off
[01:49:04] He's making corrections if there's there's red lines on this in the red written with the common donts pan
[01:49:11] Am I wrong no I think you're right and I'm thinking to like how many of these pubs are out there these Marine Corps
[01:49:17] Doctional pubs it's not I mean it's not some massive numbers on a thousand of these things he's had two in the last two years
[01:49:24] Yeah, like
[01:49:26] There are probably common aunts that did their entire
[01:49:29] Time is common up and none of these pubs came out under there watch he's done two and two for sure. Obviously this is this is clearly
[01:49:35] An important thing for general brother this is a thing for him. Yeah, well learning was the first
[01:49:39] New pub in how yeah, it was like a decade. It was a long time. Yes. It was a long time and this one came out one year later
[01:49:45] Yeah, so this is this is wheelhouse priority for him and
[01:49:50] This isn't like some big giant stretch from learning either this competing pub is not like
[01:49:57] Unrelated to this is I was gonna say that we got cousins here. Yes, right?
[01:50:01] We got cousins. Yes, we got learning we got competing those are cousins. There's a thread between those two a clear thread
[01:50:07] they
[01:50:09] The the leadership thread that's in both of these as well
[01:50:12] The leadership thread is really important when you start looking at that continuum of leadership and the
[01:50:17] Continuous of an influence and the the mind the way of thinking for competing and you start thinking that way of thinking for
[01:50:22] Competing as also a way of leading. Yeah, that's a huge a huge asset to your toolbox of thought
[01:50:31] To bring to the table as a leader
[01:50:34] That's that's what has been on my mind this whole time from the beginning to the conclusion is
[01:50:40] How tiny a little tweak you need to make in reading just this pub about
[01:50:46] Computing which is really at least at the top level is the Marine Corps fighting against other countries
[01:50:51] How tiny a tweak there is to make that this is a leadership public. This is a leadership book and
[01:50:56] It applies to running a business running a team this
[01:51:01] A tiny language change goes from fighting competitors to leading your own people like this is a
[01:51:05] Leadership publication from beginning to end you want to think on the third one
[01:51:10] One of the previous two you did the influence continuing you just pulled from that
[01:51:14] I'm just listening to that just eating that up of and I remember thinking man the Marine Corps should have just said that in here
[01:51:21] And yeah, they probably would have had a double the length of this thing because every time I read something
[01:51:27] There's a place to go diving deeper into that
[01:51:29] But despite that there's no question in my mind that they the authors just recognize and the leadership influence is sitting inside there and even the examples they pull from they're pulling all these examples if you're running a business
[01:51:41] This is what you should do and so
[01:51:44] There is that when you know the way broadly you see it and all things
[01:51:47] I'm watching and seeing and this thing hearing you talking just making the leadership piece to that but from beginning to end that connection is as
[01:51:54] Absolutely there and it doesn't take some big change and perspective to see it inside here and to learn from it totally and
[01:52:01] You know the fact that the Marine Corps look they could choose a bunch of different things to
[01:52:07] dive into and the fact that they dove into this
[01:52:12] To run their organization and help their organization be prepared and
[01:52:17] grow
[01:52:19] That that's just an indication of the importance of this mindset of this way of thinking of how to compete
[01:52:28] How our rivals compete and how we
[01:52:32] Can't compete in a better way and
[01:52:36] With that you see that softball just get tossed up echo Charles with that speaking of trying to compete better and do better echo Charles
[01:52:49] Do you have any suggestions on that?
[01:52:51] Yes, thank you softball not very competitive the
[01:52:56] They said in a different chapter that competing in influence right is like the same thing. No, that's me. That's what I said
[01:53:03] That was my whole
[01:53:05] That's what really made me think we need to cover this on the podcast was hey we talk about competition
[01:53:12] That's good. That's that's if we eliminated all the leadership talk and influence talk out of this podcast
[01:53:17] It would have been done in three hours two hours two and a half hours
[01:53:20] Okay, I guess maybe maybe half the time maybe half the time once we start a talk at about leadership and influence and
[01:53:27] That that that that definitely adds to it, but yes, so we have been talking about it from a leadership perspective and an influence perspective
[01:53:34] So like competing can be even at the end of the continuum or the spectrum or whatever where it's like war
[01:53:42] It's like you're influencing them to submit essentially
[01:53:47] Yes, I can beat you into doing what I want you to do
[01:53:52] Right with which we don't want no we don't we don't even want across the threshold of violence
[01:53:59] so
[01:54:01] That's the leadership continuum the leadership influence continuum which by the way is also very close
[01:54:06] We've related to
[01:54:08] Leadership strategy and tactics a little something called the escalation of counseling
[01:54:13] Which is you know, I'm doing I'm using the minimum force required. I'm just saying hey Dave
[01:54:18] I know this you like today's everything. Okay, that's where it starts
[01:54:21] I use the escalation of counseling by the way
[01:54:23] Good thing one of the children in my household and it was good because it was a kind of where
[01:54:29] You don't really it was basically hey do this chore
[01:54:33] Right and or else, but I'm not the kind where I'm like hey do it now
[01:54:38] You know because I want it done now. I'm just saying just you just do it right?
[01:54:42] He frustrated for God. Okay, for God next day not done and it's not the kind arbitrary chore
[01:54:47] It's the kind you just kind of gave away the child in question
[01:54:51] The last gender review
[01:54:53] The last the so busted when I was a kid
[01:54:57] That kind of stuff happened to me where I forgot to do the chore
[01:55:01] Then not only did I get told to do I agree that I would do it right a school dean was coming
[01:55:07] You but forgot in quotes. That mean you really didn't forget you just gapped it off or did you actually forget not all the time check
[01:55:13] but
[01:55:15] You if
[01:55:16] Yeah, like that if you get
[01:55:18] Skulled it that's crossing some threshold at some point. Right. What is it the cooperish?
[01:55:23] I don't know. I know there's a threshold you cross over when you start school
[01:55:26] Didn't rather than hey like you all do hey you all good needy thing
[01:55:31] What up? Yeah speaking of success. I've been taking joint warfare consistently for the last I don't know one month
[01:55:37] Two months
[01:55:39] Joint warfare is what we're taking to take care of our joints
[01:55:42] We're not slack on the workhouse or taking the joint warfare and super-cruel oil also good ways to support your immunity vitamin D3 and cold war
[01:55:52] Don't forget about these things
[01:55:54] Very important also discipline and discipline go in a can capsules powder
[01:56:02] That's it. Do you know I'm little let's just say disappointed in your whole approach on that section today
[01:56:08] I don't know if you like feeling down or maybe you didn't drink enough discipline
[01:56:12] I didn't feel any of that what you just said oh like my energy was all energy was low
[01:56:17] I'm not like you like let me let me let me give everyone a little something to be happy about since you're
[01:56:23] You know not feeling it today apparently check this out check this out if you want to get any of this stuff
[01:56:31] With free shipping from origin main calm all you have to do is subscribe and that's a good call because then you're not
[01:56:39] gonna
[01:56:40] Miss you're not gonna look in your cupboard one day
[01:56:45] Is covered in east coast word? No, okay? You're not gonna look in your cupboard one day and see that there's no joint warfare
[01:56:51] There's no super krill. There's no vitamin D. It's there. It's waiting to make you healthy and strong
[01:56:58] So
[01:57:00] There you go. It's like you'll never need to be reminded to get it. Yeah
[01:57:05] It's a very reminder it just it just shows up. Yeah, that is a big deal
[01:57:10] If only if only your son could subscribe to doing chores it would just got kind of like oh like a little reminder
[01:57:16] Actually, that's a good idea. So look you just establish a system
[01:57:20] That you don't have to be told to do the tree. Just say hey every day
[01:57:26] At this very specific time you check the trash
[01:57:31] That's a system that would work good. Yeah, the challenge you have is trying to get him to recognize how that's to his benefit
[01:57:38] With this other stuff. It's it's sort of undeniable that is to your benefits
[01:57:42] That there's not some big negotiation going on like why this is good for you?
[01:57:45] That is yeah
[01:57:47] I actually have a lot more challenges than that on the last like in glad getting your spirit up a little bit anyway
[01:57:53] Speaking of the
[01:57:55] See you gotta look at me like that you make it worse with the with the looking at me like by the way
[01:58:00] Where will me look at it? Look at the look at the
[01:58:03] Anyway, so yes, they sent me a whole thing a whole
[01:58:08] Package of the discipline
[01:58:10] I understand and I understand what what you mean by when you're looking in the cupboard and seeing it like oh
[01:58:18] Right, yeah, you know when you run low you'll get like a little sense of
[01:58:23] panic
[01:58:24] What's the one right before panic? I thought what's the what's a tormenting like
[01:58:29] Before panic like not anxiety like a little you know
[01:58:33] Nagging something yes, you see it full up one it fills up
[01:58:36] Satisfied like your gas tank you know when the gas tank goes all the way to empty and you're like
[01:58:40] I don't know that's like
[01:58:43] Let's do but so when you do fill fill it that cup it's like a really like a satisfying kind of feeling
[01:58:50] We I went in the cupboard the other day and there was a one super curl left and I actually
[01:58:58] Walked through my bedroom and I told my wife emergency
[01:59:02] I said hey emergency there's only one super curl left
[01:59:06] And she goes what and she walks out and then she comes in like oh, no is in this other cupboard
[01:59:10] You got a box
[01:59:12] You already actually that's the exact terminology. I use to fulfill my new discipline go package to be little emergency
[01:59:23] By the way, so no need for emergencies no need go on there origin may not calm subscribe for that's free shipping
[01:59:31] And you and it's 10 if you subscribe is 10% off, so it's a good deal. We're trying to try to hook it up
[01:59:36] Also you can get this stuff out you can get the cans at walla on the East Coast full chain and you walla you can go in there
[01:59:45] You can get some
[01:59:47] Vitamin shop you get it there too. So hey if you want something
[01:59:53] Get something
[01:59:55] That's we're gonna get getting something get some jeans as well not a wall. Oh, yeah, by the way, so this is American made denim from the roots to the
[02:00:04] To the jeans you understand what I'm saying
[02:00:08] You understand either way boots jeans Jesus stuff these rash guards. Yep
[02:00:14] All these at or je mean all made in America
[02:00:19] Also we have our own store
[02:00:21] Jocco store dot com. This is where you can get your discipline equals freedom apparel if you will
[02:00:28] shirts, hoodies hats on there. So more rash guards on there as well
[02:00:32] Got some new set where your kids soap
[02:00:35] Got that on there. That's a critical one
[02:00:37] I mean getting reports that the jocco set this cuz it's okay, so there's three how many flavors there's multiple flavors bro
[02:00:44] There's no there's no
[02:00:45] Jocco different super soap and where you kids soap. Oh, yeah the warrior kids up is yellow and blue
[02:00:52] Where you can color yes, sir the jocco soap smells
[02:00:57] The best as far as a consensus goes interesting
[02:01:00] Same thing interesting. That's the deal anyway. Jocco store dot com. That's where you can't represent
[02:01:05] Well, you're on the path and what about the shirt locker that you're all excited about? Yes, very excited by the way every month
[02:01:11] You shirt every month. So yes, subscribe to that you know if you're into that
[02:01:16] There's probably a lot of people that are saying oh, wow, it's called the shirt locker. That's cool. I want to check that out as opposed to the old name
[02:01:22] Yeah, teacher
[02:01:26] All right cool check that out subscribe to the podcast
[02:01:29] You can we also have some other podcasts
[02:01:33] So subscribe to those well the
[02:01:35] Unraveling which Darrell and I are working on some new episodes of that
[02:01:39] You're also go to jocco underground dot com where we do a little alternative amplifying podcast
[02:01:47] And you can you can listen to it there
[02:01:50] It costs money cost $8.18 a month, but we're trying to sort of have a little contingency scenario in case things happen in the future
[02:02:00] They and also eight dollars and 18 cents only one person is guests it correctly only one that I know of yes
[02:02:07] Yeah, well, that's I've seen one must be the same one yeah, and through this though through this process
[02:02:15] There are like so many different like out people people are putting layers on that I'm like oh, that maybe that's
[02:02:21] Yeah, so eight dollars and 18 cents or we actually there's a reason for it. There's layers behind it
[02:02:26] But now there's layers that we didn't know about that now are now layers layers have been added
[02:02:31] We'll put it to you that way, but at some point we got to announce the official
[02:02:35] So
[02:02:37] Hey, if you want to check that out if you want to check out that podcast go to go to jocco underground dot com $8.18
[02:02:43] That's a month and if you look we want information out there if you can't afford that
[02:02:47] Just email assistance at jocco underground dot com and we will get you taken care of
[02:02:53] Like I said we also have the unraveling we have the grounded podcast where the warrior kid podcast
[02:02:58] We got a YouTube channel where echo
[02:03:01] So
[02:03:03] Makes videos that echo's makes videos and it's cool psychological warfare an album with tracks
[02:03:10] MP3 availability there flip side canvas dot com you need stuff to hang on your wall got some books. Oh, I got a new book
[02:03:18] It's called final spin. It's a story
[02:03:22] It's a novel it's a poem it's
[02:03:26] Well, it's available for pre order now leadership strategy tactics field manual the code the evaluation to protocol
[02:03:34] Displunico's freedom field manual away of the warrior kid four field manual a field manual
[02:03:39] Warrior kid one two and three Mike in the dragons about face extreme ownership dichotomy leadership
[02:03:44] We got a strong front which is our leadership consultancy where we take all this information that we have learned and we help you apply it inside your
[02:03:51] Organization to solve problems through leadership go to echelon front dot com for that
[02:03:56] We got EF online
[02:03:58] dot com where we are teaching leadership. There's courses that you can take
[02:04:05] That will help you and everyone in your organization get aligned and win go to EF online dot com for that
[02:04:13] We've got musters which are live events that we do
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[02:04:26] Just just saying
[02:04:28] EF overwatch executive leadership for your company go to
[02:04:32] EF overwatch dot com and if you want to help service members if you want to help active duty if you want to help
[02:04:38] Retired service members if you want to help their families if you want to help gold star families then check out Mark Lee's mom
[02:04:43] Mom Emily she's got a charity organization and if you want to donate or you want to get involved go to America's mighty
[02:04:51] Or yours dot org and if you want more of my tedious tales
[02:04:56] And you certainly heard some today or you need more of echoes
[02:05:00] convoluted
[02:05:01] contemplations
[02:05:03] Or Dave's nascent narratives
[02:05:07] You can find us on the inner webs on Twitter on
[02:05:11] Instagram
[02:05:12] And if you only speak echo Charles. That's also only known as
[02:05:17] the Graham and
[02:05:19] You can find us on Facebook David is at Dave's our book that goes at aquatrails and I am at jockel willing
[02:05:23] And thanks to all the service men women out there on the front lines worldwide worldwide
[02:05:29] protecting us
[02:05:32] From forces of darkness and tyranny and to our police and law enforcement firefighters paramedics
[02:05:38] EMTs dispatchers correctional officers board a patrol secret
[02:05:42] Service and first responders. Thank you for standing on the lines here at home to keep us safe
[02:05:50] And everyone else out there. Yes, you are competing all the time
[02:05:55] But make sure you are competing in the right arenas for the right reasons
[02:05:59] Don't waste your time and your resources and your effort on competitions that are driven by your ego make sure the competition makes sense
[02:06:08] Make sure that you are competing not just a beat someone else
[02:06:16] But infinitely more important you are competing to get where you want to be
[02:06:23] That is how you win
[02:06:29] Well that and actually going out every day and getting after it and until next time
[02:06:34] This is Dave and echo and jockel out