Jocko Podcast 266: Pay Attention to What You're Paying Attention To. MCD 1-4, w/ Dave Berke. Pt.3

2021-01-28T08:44:18Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @davidrberke 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:09 - MCDP 1-4 Competing. Chapter 3 1:36:11 - Final Thoughts. 1:51:59 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO UNDERGROUND Exclusive Episodes: https://app.redcircle.com/shows/64a89f88-a245-4098-8d8d-496325ec4f74/exclusive-content Jocko Store https://www.jockostore.com/collections/menApparel: Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/nutrition Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:08:31 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

He's in like the, he's in the, beyond opposite direction where he's thinking that he wants to like prove and be, be a part of the team, you know, the opposite of competing, exact opposite, and it's funny you say that two words like, oh, that was checkmate, where he was like, one that came up when he's like, hey, kill the guy, he's like, not gonna do it, he's like, in fact, you know what, I'm tired of this whole thing, I'm turning you guys in, he's like, yeah, go ahead, but what's gonna happen when they pull your blood, you've been smoking weed and math all day or not math, it was like PCP or whatever, all day having you and he's like looking at him, you can see the wheel, you're getting a smoke PCP or is it like intertwined in the pot? So it was weed, so he made them smoke the weed and then after he smoked it he was like, dang, I didn't know you smoke BCP, he's like, you did, I haven't, but you have now, you know, like that kind of like, like, did Denzel's character smoke weed as well? Then soon, like right after he's like, hey, I know it's crazy, I know, but this how it is, you know, we gotta be wolf. So it's kind of like, he learned, it's almost like he'd Jake felt like he was learning this big, huge impactful lesson at that time, you know? If we would have, you know, if we didn't deconstruct it that moment, you could have got shot like, like, some things where we got away with it, right? There was a time in training day, in the beginning, he meets a metadiner, and he's like, oh, the guy Jake, he's trying to make small talk, you know, it's awkward and a lot of, a lot of, he's reading the newspaper, and he's like, not talking to him, it's awkward. That's almost checkmate, like, hey, dude, well, I'll get you, you need to get pissed tested, and now you're out of the force, and now you're in trouble, now you got a bad reputation, or, not even a bad reputation, you got a, what's, what's an RE4 code in the military where you're not allowed to get a federal job anymore, but you got a bad thing happening, you got a dishonorable discharge. And what's good, what I like about using the word guess, what I like about that is I think, you know, Dave, you were talking earlier about hesitation if you're making an indiscision making process. Where you're just like, oh, yeah, today we're just sort of cruising, where, and actually you're example of like, okay, if you know where you are in the hierarchy, or hierarchy, and you're, let's say you're high, and you have all these challenges, people or entities, right? It's a great screening tool because I know the Marine Corps wants people that think that they want, they want people that have big egos in the sense that they think they can do things in their heart. And, and I don't mean to like presume that I know what you, you know, what you, you were thinking, but hey, do you want to just be in the Navy? Uh, you could be a diver, or like, and you could go to the military, like, and even, and I'm, I'm implying like it's kind of crazy. Yeah, and when you think about like immediate action drills, which you'll have, you know, in a platoon where if we get, if we get, if we get shot at, here's the immediate action is going to happen without anything. When you see what's going on in Syria, when you see what's going on in the Middle East, when you see what's going on in Europe, when you see what you start to think about all those things from a more holistic viewpoint and you overlay the fact that it's one big competition which looks. He's like, but you want, I read the newspaper for the stories or blah, blah, blah, he says it's like, so you gotta tell me a story. Oh, the first escalation starts in the beginning, so like right, the way he talks to him in the beginning, where you could tell this guy, Jake is like, he just wants to make the team, he wants to do everything. If, if you lined up like 10 fighter pilots today and like, hey, do you want to go fly in the back seat of an authentic P51 from World War II? And what, what that should tell us is that they know, which is even more reason for them to be competing all the time, because they know where they sit and they don't like being there. You know, like, hey, what do you like? You get hit with the, the natural ability to, like I remember when I took the test for officer candidate school and they're showing you pictures and what is this, is this plain, they're showing, like, I was even going into aviation or anything. And you probably know this, but every single day at work at echelon front, no matter what good work we've done, no matter what impact made, no matter what the client tells me, how great echelon front is, every single new phone call, every single, every time I do the same thing I've done 100 times, I think about that. Yeah, it does kind of the more you think about it, the more it becomes like, yeah, like a ten out of ten. But when the 90s it was like, hey, you got to do these protocols that the big Navy follows and so you'd see, oh, well, you know, these guys are square to weather. I believe between now I know that they must spend some money because they have advertisements and they have, you know, commercials and stuff like that. And even if the return is like all negative, it's such a small move that the risk of even that 100% negative feedback is like, hey, that's good information. But if taking action versus not taking action, if you just reduce it just to the mindset, like then you can kind of understand like, And it's, there is no like, death-friends like, I don't want to make the old man look bad. You know, me in seal training was, oh, guys are going to go to whatever, you know, go to the mall, go try and meet girls or whatever. Where he's like, yeah, you gotta kind of, get to push it far sometimes, you know, to throw them out.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Pondcast number 266 with echo Charles and me, Jockel willing. Good evening, echo. Good evening.
[00:00:07] And joining us again tonight is Dave Burke. Good deal, Dave Burke. Good evening, Dave. Good evening.
[00:00:15] So we've knocked out two chapters of Marine Corps, Dr. Publication 1, TAC 4, which is called Competing.
[00:00:23] And today we're going to delve into the third chapter. Now we have had expectations in each one of these of doing more than one chapter.
[00:00:30] I don't think we're going to make it, especially because three has a lot of good stuff in it.
[00:00:36] And four is longer. So I don't know if you get halfway through four anyways.
[00:00:42] So we're going to delve into chapter three. And before we kind of kick that off.
[00:00:48] In the last chapter and throughout the book thus far, the Marines have been calling competition or describing competition as an enduring conditioning.
[00:01:02] Are you getting a enduring condition? It's enduring. It's always happening. Always.
[00:01:09] And then when we got done, I think it was with the first chapter and we did an underground podcast. And I talked about that clip from there will be blood.
[00:01:21] I have a competition in me. I want no one else to succeed. And I kind of talked about this fact that I related to that.
[00:01:31] And that I can be really competitive in a lot of ways. And since competition is an enduring condition, that must mean that I'm always competing with everyone all the time.
[00:01:44] And if I'm always in competition, well then when do I get a break, when do I sleep? Well, we're not sleeping. I'm not a lot of obviously.
[00:01:54] But how am I not getting burnt out?
[00:01:58] I'm always competing. How am I not getting burnt out?
[00:02:03] And I was thinking about that because I start to think about people hearing this. And I like to think through how people are going to interpret what I'm saying.
[00:02:14] And Dave, you and I say it's a lot with just the title of the first book, Extreme Ownership. And people think Extreme Ownership.
[00:02:20] But it's mean we need to be extreme about stuff. And we have to write a whole other book, kind of write a whole other book with Dave called the dichotomy of leadership saying, no actually you gotta be balanced. We don't want to be extreme.
[00:02:30] So when I think about talking and I'm sitting here saying, I'm competing all the time and we're competing and everything is a competition.
[00:02:39] And I think if someone's going, okay, well, we're going all the time. And then they're going to get burnt out.
[00:02:44] And how is it that I'm not getting burnt out? Am I superhuman? No. I'm just another person. So how is it that I'm competing all the time, which I can tell you, I can tell you honestly, I am competing all the time.
[00:03:01] I'm also telling you I'm not superhuman. How is this happening? I can explain it. The kind of people that get burnt out and fall apart.
[00:03:14] The reason that that happens is because they are competing at a tactical level.
[00:03:24] That's what's going on. They don't get caught up in bar braels and street fights and duels and arguments. And they want to win every altercation they see occurring anywhere around them. And their ego won't let them rest.
[00:03:44] And I'm not doing that. I don't care about the bar brawl or the street fight or the argument. I don't care about those things. Don't care about them.
[00:03:57] I'm in competition, but I'm not in competition at a tactical level. I'm competing strategically. At least I'm trying to, right? I'm not perfect. I'm trying to compete strategically.
[00:04:09] Now, do you sometimes have to win tactical battles? Do you sometimes do you have a battle, a tactical battle that you have to win?
[00:04:19] Some people will come to me without argument. You know there's some battles that you have to win. You know what's your right.
[00:04:26] And you know what they call those battles? They call them strategic battles. That's not a tactical battle anymore.
[00:04:34] If I'm in a strategic battle, I'm going to win that. And the point of saying this is as we talk about competition.
[00:04:43] And you hear Dave and me and echo getting all fired up about competition and competing all the time. And I keep saying you're always in competition and everything's competition.
[00:04:52] As we talk about that, don't get wrapped around a tactical competition.
[00:05:01] Think strategic. Think strategic all the time.
[00:05:08] And you know you should get in some tactical scraps sometimes. So you don't lose your edge. I'm going to go ahead and say that.
[00:05:16] You want to give a little scrap. We're going to go a little sparring session. Go ahead and let's do it.
[00:05:21] But I'll tell you what, I'm not going to waste any resources. I'm definitely not going to take any significant damage.
[00:05:28] Look, I'm going to get a little dinged up. It's okay. But I'm not going to waste resources. Real resources.
[00:05:37] And here's another thing.
[00:05:40] If you're competing against me,
[00:05:45] I will have you in tactical fights all day long.
[00:05:49] I will put tactical things out there to distract you and fight you.
[00:05:54] And I put some minimum amount of resources against your whole deal and make you think you're achieving this big victory. And you're not.
[00:06:03] I will be watching you take damage. I'll be watching you waste resources. I'll be watching you expand leadership capital while I'm putting money in the bank.
[00:06:14] I'm putting money in the bank. And I'm going to win. I am going to win.
[00:06:20] So don't mistake that as we talk through this manual. Don't mistake tactical competition for strategic competition.
[00:06:30] And we have been saying you are competing and you should remember that you are competing and you are competing all the time,
[00:06:36] but you should be competing strategically.
[00:06:43] And with that, we can go into the book. What do you got Dave? I'm just over here taking notes.
[00:06:51] I'm just trying to write down because I'm taking this home and thinking about it.
[00:06:56] You can play a say that again.
[00:06:58] A tactical battle that you need to win isn't a tactical battle. Just thinking even in those terms, if you have to win that battle,
[00:07:05] meaning it's necessary.
[00:07:07] By definition, that's not tactical. It's a strategic thing because if you didn't, if it didn't matter, then it's not strategic.
[00:07:13] If it doesn't matter, then who cares?
[00:07:16] Just the concept of a tactical battle you need to win isn't tactical.
[00:07:21] And even on the leadership side, when people ask the question, hey, where do I hold the one? Where do I have to apply resources or expand capital?
[00:07:31] And the idea that even in reverse, if it has to be achieved, this is not a tactical thing. This is a strategic thing.
[00:07:39] And understanding that, again, that's just some of that just for me to think about because
[00:07:45] And then you ask yourself, or you see a client, or you see a human being,
[00:07:51] treating something as if it's a strategic battle, and they don't think through it.
[00:07:56] Yeah. They don't see that.
[00:07:58] I mean, really, what's the deal? What happened? What's the worst case scenario? If you lose that battle?
[00:08:02] Well, I'm gonna, they're gonna get the op-a.
[00:08:06] Whatever thing they've rationalized inside their head, which is dragging them to expand resources, to expand leadership capital,
[00:08:16] to make someone do something because they're gonna look bad.
[00:08:20] Which is just insanity. It's total insanity.
[00:08:24] There's almost nothing. There's almost nothing that I need to make one of my subordinates do.
[00:08:30] There's almost, I can't, I can barely think of anything that I need to make one of my subordinates do.
[00:08:36] You know what I need to make, one of my subordinates do? I need to make sure that all my subordinates knew how to program their radios before they went out by them,
[00:08:42] by, when on an operation in Ramadi because if they got stuck without a radio, not known how to program it, they would die.
[00:08:48] So on that, you know what I always use that example?
[00:08:54] Because there's, like, one of the few that I can possibly think of.
[00:08:58] Yeah. It's one of the few that I can possibly think of where I was like, yeah, you know what, you have to do this.
[00:09:04] Now, here's why, and it's not like I had to have a big discussion. All I said was, hey guys, if you can't program your radio and you get separated, you're gonna die.
[00:09:12] Therefore, you're not going out.
[00:09:14] Did anyone say, well, actually, I don't think it's that big risk. No, everywhere yet, Roger that.
[00:09:18] There was no, there was no discussion about it. It wasn't like an argument.
[00:09:22] It was, hey guys, I should have done a better job explaining how easy it is to get separated in an urban environment.
[00:09:28] And if you get separated in this environment, the people that would be coming to get you, they won't be us. They'll be an army unit or a Marine Corps unit,
[00:09:34] and you'll need to know how to put those frequencies into your radio by yourself.
[00:09:38] Otherwise, you'll be out there alone, and you'll get captured, and you'll have your head cut off.
[00:09:46] And it takes, by the way, 15 minutes to learn how to program a radio. Let's get it done. And everyone goes, yeah, Roger that.
[00:09:54] But there's not too many things that require that, and like I said, even that didn't require.
[00:10:02] So that didn't even cost me leadership capital.
[00:10:05] It didn't, it actually, that, that moved, actually didn't cost me leadership capital.
[00:10:09] Instead, people like me have a man.
[00:10:11] I would venture to guess that my leadership capital went up a little bit.
[00:10:16] Because guys are thinking, mmm, I didn't know anything about that.
[00:10:22] And by the way, this guy cares about me, because he doesn't want me to be stuck in the middle of Romadi without being able to communicate.
[00:10:29] This guy, the reason this guy wants me to do this is because he cares about me. It has nothing to do with my personal gain.
[00:10:36] Zero. What do I get out of it? Nothing.
[00:10:39] Well, I guess I'm taking care of my guys, but again, what is that? I'm taking care of my guys.
[00:10:44] The discrimination between tactical and strategic is a huge area for growth.
[00:10:58] For us as human beings. And I think echo, this has been your constant theme since we started the podcast of the biggest lesson that you learned was long term versus short term, which is the civilian way of saying strategic long term, tactical short term, and the difference between those two.
[00:11:18] Yes, sir.
[00:11:19] And the more you figured that out, the better your life got.
[00:11:23] Yep. Just like that.
[00:11:24] How old were you when we started this podcast?
[00:11:26] Three.
[00:11:28] Eight.
[00:11:28] Maybe 38.
[00:11:30] There's people that are listening this podcast right now. Better thinking, I'm 32 man already went.
[00:11:35] No, it's already too late.
[00:11:37] No.
[00:11:38] No.
[00:11:39] It doesn't matter.
[00:11:40] I mean, I get messages from people that are 58.
[00:11:43] And they say, you know, I'm starting to look this long term.
[00:11:46] I'm making these adjustments, and here's what I'm going to do.
[00:11:48] It's never too late.
[00:11:49] It's never too late to start thinking strategic.
[00:11:52] It's the expression about you just to like when's the best time to plan to tree or start you just to do it.
[00:11:57] Best time to plan to tree either 28 years ago or today.
[00:12:02] Same deal, man. Same exact exact same deal.
[00:12:06] Yep.
[00:12:07] Check.
[00:12:08] All right.
[00:12:10] Chapter three.
[00:12:11] It's a short chapter, but there's a lot in it.
[00:12:14] Chapter three is called preparing for competition.
[00:12:17] So, you know, that's going to sound.
[00:12:19] The most important task for Marines and the Marine Corps is to recognize that we are always competing.
[00:12:26] Even choosing to do nothing is a competitive decision.
[00:12:31] It just happens to be one that surrenders the initiative to our competitors.
[00:12:37] Yes.
[00:12:40] When you choose to do nothing, you are surrendering your the initiative to your competitor.
[00:12:46] Now, I got a throw a caveat in there that there are sometimes where tactical patients, which is the cool way of saying waiting,
[00:12:57] is a good thing that there's absolutely times where you want to give things a second to develop.
[00:13:05] We should say that to young seals.
[00:13:07] If they were making calls too fast, you hey, let it develop a little bit.
[00:13:10] You don't even know what's really happening.
[00:13:11] You've heard four gun shots and you're trying to make a decision on which way to go.
[00:13:15] No, let's wait till we hear some volume of fire from the enemy.
[00:13:20] So, we actually have a more relevant and real idea as to where they are.
[00:13:28] But, I think the number is seven out of ten times.
[00:13:33] Maybe eight out of ten times action is better than in action.
[00:13:37] So, that's why the Marine Corps says bias for action.
[00:13:41] That's why echelon front says default aggressive.
[00:13:43] It's better to make a move.
[00:13:47] Eight out of ten times nine out of ten times.
[00:13:50] It's better to make a move.
[00:13:52] And if you have an open mind and you're going to read a feedback loop, it almost becomes ten out of ten.
[00:13:57] And if you're going to do iterative decision making, meaning I'm going to make a small move really quickly, then it becomes a hundred percent.
[00:14:04] I'm going to make a really quick move.
[00:14:06] I'm going to then read the feedback loop and see what I've got.
[00:14:08] And if you can do that, which is what I do, that's how I cheated.
[00:14:13] That's how I cheat in decision making.
[00:14:15] I don't make a big decision.
[00:14:17] I'm going to make a little one.
[00:14:19] Make a little tiny decision.
[00:14:21] Yeah, it does kind of the more you think about it, the more it becomes like, yeah, like a ten out of ten.
[00:14:29] Especially when you think of it in those terms where, yeah, the photographs of not meaning you're going all out full speed one direction every single time.
[00:14:36] But that was like, you got to be because it kind of comes from a mindset, right?
[00:14:40] Where it obviously default aggressive does.
[00:14:43] But if taking action versus not taking action, if you just reduce it just to the mindset, like then you can kind of understand like, oh yeah, to not take action is with very few if any exceptions, the wrong thing to do.
[00:14:59] Yeah, especially when you consider what action, how small an action can be.
[00:15:05] Yes.
[00:15:06] And still be action.
[00:15:07] Right.
[00:15:08] Exactly.
[00:15:09] Yeah.
[00:15:10] Because like has a hesitation, right?
[00:15:11] That's what you don't want.
[00:15:12] The hesitation.
[00:15:13] That's like an action.
[00:15:15] That's like, I'm not making any decision to hold here or anticipate this.
[00:15:22] I'm not making a decision.
[00:15:23] I'm just like hesitating kind of thing.
[00:15:25] Like just not doing that.
[00:15:26] Yeah, and when you think about like immediate action drills, which you'll have, you know, in a platoon where if we get, if we get,
[00:15:34] if we get shot at, here's the immediate action is going to happen without anything.
[00:15:38] There's action happening with no call being made.
[00:15:41] No decisions been made, but there's action happening.
[00:15:43] Dave, I apologize for not have that I haven't memorized this immediate action that you have in a jet and it's some move that you make when you don't know what else to do, but you just do it.
[00:15:54] What is it?
[00:15:55] Lift, right?
[00:15:56] Yes.
[00:15:57] Lift, vector, on and pull.
[00:15:58] That's an action.
[00:15:59] Yep.
[00:16:00] And that action, you can take that immediately.
[00:16:03] And then you can figure out what you're going to do.
[00:16:05] That's right.
[00:16:06] So it's good to think through those things.
[00:16:08] It's good if you can just think about, if you can just have an SOP or standard operating procedure that, hey, if this happens, I know I'm at least going to do this.
[00:16:16] That's a really positive thing.
[00:16:20] Yeah, I'm rackin' my brain kind of trying to think of a time we're doing nothing and you already said it.
[00:16:27] I think the thing I was thinking about is even the smallest move, even the smallest decision that to do anything.
[00:16:32] You interact with the environment, somehow and get some feedback.
[00:16:35] You get something.
[00:16:36] Now that something could be very little and okay cool then I can move a little bit more.
[00:16:40] But even the smallest move gives you something.
[00:16:43] So thinking of it in those terms, it's really hard and I'm just thinking of an, an example.
[00:16:49] We're doing nothing and I can't, I can't think of one.
[00:16:53] When the alternative is, hey, make a really small move.
[00:16:56] Just to see what you get in that feedback loop, just to see what kind of return you get on that.
[00:17:01] And even if the return is like all negative, it's such a small move that the risk of even that 100% negative feedback is like, hey, that's good information.
[00:17:10] That hasn't toppled us over across us.
[00:17:13] So even if the response is all bad, the move is so small that's actually good for you.
[00:17:18] So I just can't pee some and gather we go, no actually, here's the time where I really think doing nothing is right.
[00:17:25] When that is the alternative we're thinking about.
[00:17:28] Right, right, and when you when you factor in the small iterative decisions, it really eliminates a lot of inaction being good.
[00:17:37] And neither one of us and none of us are saying that that's never the case.
[00:17:42] But definitely lean towards the bias for action, definitely lean towards default aggressive.
[00:17:48] That's where you want to go and then lean with little footsteps.
[00:17:53] And I think we're where people get hung up on this and we talk about this a lot. The way you describe it.
[00:17:59] You're iterative decision making, the way you do it happens so quickly and so rapidly.
[00:18:05] It appears that you're just going from here all the way to there.
[00:18:08] So from the outside, it looks like you're making these huge moves.
[00:18:11] And the reason you say you're cheating is you're going to, I know that's what it looks like.
[00:18:14] But that's not what's happening.
[00:18:16] If you look at it like, hey, you're going from here all the way to there.
[00:18:19] And you're thinking, I don't know how to do that yet. So I'm going to do nothing.
[00:18:22] If that's your frame of reference, I understand why doing nothing is, is a reason of alternative.
[00:18:27] What is, what you don't understand is that you're not doing that.
[00:18:30] You never go from here all the way to there.
[00:18:32] You have a thousand little moves along the way, but that happens so quickly.
[00:18:35] And the maneuvers are so fast that it doesn't appear like that.
[00:18:39] And if that's all you think is, oh, he just, jocca just goes from here to there.
[00:18:43] You know, like, that's actually not happening.
[00:18:45] Yeah, and what's interesting about what you're saying is,
[00:18:49] I don't think anyone thinks I'm going all the way from that here from point A to point F.
[00:18:56] I don't think they think that I think that they don't even know if we should go to point F or point Z or point Y.
[00:19:04] And so they're just they haven't made any decision whatsoever.
[00:19:07] Yeah, meanwhile I go, go to be, that's right.
[00:19:10] You're not saying go to F.
[00:19:11] Yeah, I'm saying go to B.
[00:19:13] And meanwhile, they don't even know where to go, but then I all of a sudden say, hey, we're going to be right now.
[00:19:17] I never goes, oh damn, how did you know to go to B?
[00:19:19] Because B is only a little training ways away, but everybody thinks that's a big move.
[00:19:22] Because they were trying to calculate, they were trying to try to do that.
[00:19:25] That's calculus for a giant.
[00:19:27] And that's what leads to doing nothing.
[00:19:29] And that's what leads to doing nothing.
[00:19:30] Because you can't do that calculus.
[00:19:32] And by the way, what helps you do the calculus?
[00:19:34] Well, it helps you do the calculus when you start filling into the variables.
[00:19:37] What starts filling in the variables is when you start gathering information.
[00:19:40] And when you start gathering this information, you start filling in those variables.
[00:19:42] And like you said, even if that variable is negative,
[00:19:44] and we go, oh, there's more enemy to the west.
[00:19:47] Okay, cool. Now guess what we know.
[00:19:49] We're not going west.
[00:19:50] We can start moving east.
[00:19:51] We can start moving south.
[00:19:53] Whereas if we just sat there, we still don't know where to go.
[00:19:56] We don't know where to go.
[00:19:57] We don't know where to go.
[00:19:58] East west north south.
[00:19:59] We don't know where to go.
[00:20:00] So that small movement to the east.
[00:20:01] We're all hey, we just identified more variables.
[00:20:04] Okay, cool.
[00:20:05] Now we know not to go there.
[00:20:08] So there's the opening sentence.
[00:20:11] Competition in the Marine Corps.
[00:20:14] Marines and the Marine Corps are tools for the nation to, by the way.
[00:20:19] You know, the people talk about like what's the greatest speech that's ever been delivered.
[00:20:28] You know, is it Martin Luther King?
[00:20:30] Is it Winston Churchill?
[00:20:32] Is it Teddy Roosevelt?
[00:20:34] You know, we have nothing to fear, but it's which one of those speeches is the greatest speech ever?
[00:20:38] And no one's ever asked me this question in a public form where I could answer this question the way I want to answer this question.
[00:20:45] But,
[00:20:47] Chesty Polar.
[00:20:50] Give a speech at like some Marine Corps ball gathering.
[00:20:56] And he was already retired.
[00:20:58] He was already Chesty Polar.
[00:21:00] And, you know, they call him up to give the speech that he's going to give.
[00:21:05] And the freaking place goes completely nuts, obviously.
[00:21:09] And he gets up there.
[00:21:11] And he delivers what I believe to be.
[00:21:15] At least a strong contender, at least for me, the greatest speech of all time.
[00:21:21] And he already says.
[00:21:24] He just says,
[00:21:27] Marines.
[00:21:30] And that's it.
[00:21:33] The place went freaking nuts.
[00:21:35] And he walked off the stage.
[00:21:38] So, whenever I see the word Marines, I think of that.
[00:21:43] That's all he needed to say.
[00:21:46] So, Marines and the Marine Corps are tools for the nation to use in the enduring competition that takes place in international relations.
[00:21:56] So, what does that mean?
[00:21:59] That means every single thing that you do.
[00:22:03] Every single thing that you do is playing into this competition that you're in in all these different aspects.
[00:22:09] Every day, Marine capabilities and force posture affect the thinking of our competitors and potential adversaries.
[00:22:16] Again, this is to propaganda for the Marine Corps.
[00:22:20] In case me talking about Chesty Polar saying Marines isn't good enough for propaganda for the Marine Corps.
[00:22:25] We are credible the Marine Corps. The more attractive we are to allies and partners.
[00:22:30] The more credible the Marine Corps is as a deterrent force, the more we affect potential rivals thinking.
[00:22:37] For Marines, participation in our nation's competitions starts at recruitment.
[00:22:44] The quality level of individuals brought into the service provides the raw material to build a credible force.
[00:22:49] Attributes like education, level physical fitness and mental resilience determine how quickly these individuals
[00:22:54] can be transformed into members of a coherent capable organization.
[00:22:59] These attributes also help establish the range of possibilities available to adapt the existing force or innovate to create a new one.
[00:23:08] How much do you know about Marine Corps recruiting Dave?
[00:23:12] I mean, I have my own personal experience with it. I don't know if I'm an expert on it, but I have a small sense of how it works.
[00:23:19] The rumor that I've always heard about the Marine Corps is that the Marine Corps spends like a fraction of the amount of money that the Navy, the Army and the Air Force spend on recruiting.
[00:23:31] Do you know anything about that?
[00:23:33] I can't give you any facts on that. That wouldn't surprise me, but I couldn't prove that.
[00:23:37] Yeah, that's what I've always heard. I believe between now I know that they must spend some money because they have advertisements and they have, you know, commercials and stuff like that.
[00:23:47] But then they do a good job based on narrative alone.
[00:23:53] I mean, my recollection of when I was really getting into thinking about the Marine Corps was the way that one of the ways I was convinced is it made it sound like it was probably impossible.
[00:24:04] Like they were recruiting like, you're probably not good enough.
[00:24:08] Yeah.
[00:24:09] But if you are, this is where you should be and there's this sense of like, oh man.
[00:24:13] Now Dakota Myers almost the exact same story. You know, he showed up and I forget what kind of crazy. He was talking about he had some crazy like haircut, whatever.
[00:24:22] He was a punk ass kid and he shows up and says, I want to be in the Marine Corps and they said, you don't really look like your Marine Corps material.
[00:24:30] Yeah.
[00:24:31] Now, do you think this is when you go to recruiting school?
[00:24:35] Are they teaching you that as a recruiter?
[00:24:37] I'm pretty sure that's a technique that they leverage.
[00:24:40] Now, what's interesting is J.P. to now same thing walked into the Navy recruiter.
[00:24:44] I want to be a Navy seat or I should probably like, I want to be a Navy seat.
[00:24:48] Because he's 14 years old, wherever he was.
[00:24:51] And they said, eh, the wannabe's need to come in on Thursday.
[00:24:55] What do you want to be?
[00:24:56] And he was determined to just approve that freaking recruiter in Sacramento, California, that J.P. had what it took.
[00:25:05] It's a great screening tool because I know the Marine Corps wants people that think that they want,
[00:25:09] they want people that have big egos in the sense that they think they can do things in their heart.
[00:25:13] And a great way to test that is, hey, this is too hard for you.
[00:25:15] And if you go, yeah, you're right.
[00:25:17] They don't want you anyway.
[00:25:18] What they want us to go, well, really.
[00:25:21] So I would say I'm pretty sure that that is a technique that they proliferate throughout officer and
[00:25:27] enlisted recruiting is you're probably not good enough, but we'll see.
[00:25:32] Now, what percentage of people does that backfire? The humble guy that's a super stud that says, hey, you know, probably, I guess I'm not just, I'm probably not just cut out for it.
[00:25:45] And I guess maybe that is a good self selection because now we got to do that maybe at the moment a truth kick, I'm really believe in his capabilities.
[00:25:53] Very strange.
[00:25:55] Historically, the Marine Corps has been the nation's hybrid force.
[00:26:01] Conducting activities that straddle the line between violence and nonviolence.
[00:26:06] Marines have often deployed two places to help the local people in time of need while being ready to restore order in those same places if required.
[00:26:15] The direction for the Marine Corps to be the most ready when the nation is least ready applies as much to competition as it does to war.
[00:26:26] And this is another one of these statements where you think, well, that that's a good idea.
[00:26:30] Well, that that that right there is a maneuver to the Department of Defense to give us money.
[00:26:35] You need to allocate money to the Marine Corps because when the nation is least ready, the Marine Corps will be the most ready.
[00:26:45] In fact, this statement can be viewed as a competitive act in the informational element of national power.
[00:26:55] Next section is called campaigning mindset.
[00:27:00] Competition is in and I you know, I love the word campaign.
[00:27:04] Why? Because because that's the opposite of tactical battle.
[00:27:11] That's the opposite of a hack. It's the opposite of a shortcut.
[00:27:14] It's an opposite of this easy solution, the sweatless solution as Colonel David Hackworth once said.
[00:27:21] It's a campaign. Campaigns don't happen overnight.
[00:27:26] Competition is enduring in nature at the national level and the military element normally plays a supporting role, especially on the spectrum of competition short of war.
[00:27:38] This leads us to develop a campaigning mindset about competition, which is characterized by long term thinking and recognition that we need to integrate our actions with others.
[00:27:48] The Marines compete as part of a naval and joint force, but also as part of the interagency in an approach that combines all the elements of national power.
[00:27:59] Now it's sentences like this where I think this this document is not aimed at a landscorpor.
[00:28:06] This document is aimed at the DOD. This is a campaign. This document is a campaign.
[00:28:12] It's correct.
[00:28:14] But this document is a campaign to make sure that we keep the Marine Corps strong.
[00:28:19] Marines should strive to integrate our allies and partners into our competitions as this will increase our options,
[00:28:25] while also increasing the potential number of dilemmas we can present to our rivals.
[00:28:32] What are we going to get to this?
[00:28:35] I don't know if it's in this chapter or one of the later chapters when we start talking about.
[00:28:38] One of my favorite military terms that combined arm dilemma.
[00:28:43] But when you think about what you're doing is creating dilemmas for your rivals,
[00:28:49] even in not necessarily in a wartime scenario, but even in a competitive scenario,
[00:28:54] or a threshold less than violence you're trying to create dilemmas for them.
[00:28:59] It's a powerful thing.
[00:29:02] The cultivation of humility is also important for this mindset.
[00:29:12] Marine's learned early on about the observed orient-decide act loop or utaloop.
[00:29:25] Understanding of Uda teaches us that it's important to learn how to learn how to learn.
[00:29:34] About the observed orient-decide act loop or utaloop. Understanding of Uda teaches us that each decision is a hypothesis that gets tested in the real world when we act.
[00:29:50] I'm talking to clients and I'm talking to clients as COVID kicked off. I had this little speel that I was giving them.
[00:30:06] Basically what I was saying is, hey, if you're in a leadership position and you're not sure what to do, what you got to do in that situation, you got to guess.
[00:30:14] I've got to go off about, guess I'd say, listen, everybody, no one wants to hear the word guess.
[00:30:20] Hey Dave, you're in charge. What do you want me to do? Let me take a guess. No one wants to hear that. That sounds horrible.
[00:30:24] Who wants to follow somebody that I guess we should have you ever heard a leader in your life that was inspiring with confidence when they said, hey, I'm guessing we should go over there.
[00:30:32] You don't say that as a leader. You don't use those words.
[00:30:36] And yet, and then I've followed up and say, but when you're in a leadership position, when you are making a decision, what you're calling a decision, it is a guess.
[00:30:46] And what the Marine Corps did here, because they didn't want to use the word guess, they sent us up into the next level and just called it a hypothesis.
[00:30:54] Which is a guess, which is an educated guess, which is still a guess. But the amount of times that you are in a leadership position where you know for certain what's going to happen next is 0.001% because we can't predict the future.
[00:31:10] We don't know what all these little variables are, how all these little variables are going to turn out.
[00:31:16] So that's what we're doing as leaders is we're making guesses. We're making hypotheses. We're taking what you say educated guesses.
[00:31:24] That's like in between, right? A guess is just a guess. An educated guess next level hypothesis.
[00:31:30] Yes, sir.
[00:31:32] So we've got to understand that. We understand that that decision is a hypothesis that gets tested in the real world when we actually act.
[00:31:40] The campaigning mindset then includes the understanding that we base our plans on a model we created of our competitor.
[00:31:48] Okay? Our decisions about how to achieve our goals and competition are theories.
[00:31:53] Their guesses.
[00:31:55] Why do guess work going on?
[00:31:58] And what's good, what I like about using the word guess, what I like about that is I think, you know, Dave, you were talking earlier about hesitation if you're making an indiscision making process.
[00:32:09] Well, if I'm a young leader and I'm looking at my options A, B, or C.
[00:32:15] And I'm not sure which one to do.
[00:32:17] I might be thinking in my mind, well, what am I supposed to do? Just guess.
[00:32:21] I suppose to just take an educated guess with what we should do right now. I got all these resources. I got maybe lives at stake or I got a capital to take.
[00:32:27] I got all these things going on. I don't feel comfortable just guessing. So I'm just going to sit here.
[00:32:32] And wait, because I'm scared, because I, I doesn't seem right that I should be guessing what to do. Yes, you should.
[00:32:40] Now, what I recommend you do is you guess little. Just take a little guess. Hey, should I go and door A, B, or C?
[00:32:50] You know what I'm going to do immediately? Hey, I'm going to walk up that door and take a listen. What are I here in there?
[00:32:54] Right? Is there a party going on? Or is there gunfire?
[00:32:58] So, or is there no noise? Now, no noise on a little scared about, but if I hear music, that's kind of a positive sign.
[00:33:04] But I didn't enter the door. All I did was put my ear up to it.
[00:33:08] So that's what you do. You make a little guess. I guess we should check out that door. I hear gunfire.
[00:33:14] That doesn't sound like a good door. What about the next door? I hear nothing. Not sure about that one. What about this door over here? I hear music.
[00:33:22] I hear music that echo Charles plays in his vehicle from the islands, which means everyone in that room is kind of cruising.
[00:33:34] And I'm feeling pretty good about it. We're opening that door. No factor.
[00:33:38] So, if you're not comfortable taking a guess, then it's hard to make a decision.
[00:33:46] Our plans then need to have feedback loops built into them to either confirm that our models and theories are correct.
[00:33:54] Enough to help us reach our goals or that we need to modify them.
[00:33:58] And by the way, they don't bring this back up to humility they should.
[00:34:04] Because if you're not humble and you think I'm guessing door C and you walk up to it, you hear gunshot you like, well, I guess C we're going in.
[00:34:12] Bad idea. So it takes humility to modify your plan. And if you're not humble, you won't be modifying your plan. You'll be sticking with your plan until it kills you.
[00:34:20] Competition campaigning introduces the idea of persistence. Strategic competition is more like a marathon than a sprint.
[00:34:30] Competition's enduring nature means that 80 campaign will require long-term commitment to achieve its goals.
[00:34:37] We also need to be alert for how our competitive advantages and those of our rivals will shift over time.
[00:34:45] This is what's scary about wars like Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, where your enemy is home.
[00:34:57] They're not on deployment. They're going to be there. And when the wars, they'll be there for 100 years.
[00:35:05] There's not an American that wants to be there. There's not an American that's, hey, I'm stoked. I'm in Al-Kain.
[00:35:15] Hey, I'm stoked. I mean, cut. Hey, I'm stoked. Wherever. They want to be back in Nebraska.
[00:35:25] They want to be back in Iowa. But the people that are we're fighting against, they are home.
[00:35:33] So before you get into that combat, you got to figure out who's got the home field advantage.
[00:35:39] It's a big deal. It's a way bigger deal than it is in sports.
[00:35:47] This next section is professionalism.
[00:35:51] As military professionals charged with the defense of the nation, marine leaders must be true experts in the conduct of war.
[00:36:03] This statement from war fighting, the MCDP1 war fighting establishes the first priority for Marines, which is the definition.
[00:36:15] The professionals, Marines recognize this defense as a vital and enduring national interest. Our professionalism is grounded in our nation's values, which sets us apart from our, from competitors.
[00:36:27] Achieving that standard, being prepared to defend the nation has been and will continue to be a competitive act.
[00:36:35] So us just being ready is, is, is how we are helping America compete with everybody else in the world because they got to keep up. You see what the Marine Corps is doing?
[00:36:45] You know you better be training hard.
[00:36:49] We accept that the existence of the Marine Corps helps to turn potential foes.
[00:36:53] Our goal is for that deterrence to take place below the violence threshold.
[00:36:59] So what we're doing right there, we're kind of making sure that even the doves in the government are looking at the Marine Corps thinking, you know, the Marine Corps doesn't want war either.
[00:37:13] The Marine Corps wants peace. They want to they want these things to happen below that we better give them more money.
[00:37:19] Well funded Marine Corps professionals understand this goal and thus direct their energies, self-study and unit development in particular toward achieving it.
[00:37:30] So all Marines are trying to become professionals.
[00:37:36] Professionals.
[00:37:39] True experts in the conduct of war.
[00:37:44] As professionals, we recognize that development of coercive tools must be balanced with the need to attract in competition as well.
[00:37:52] For example, one component of the Attraction Strategy could lead to greater deterrence through building increased interoperability with an ally.
[00:37:59] It could also lead to advances through the informal element of national power as we perform disaster relief mission.
[00:38:05] Marines must remain alert for the opportunities to use and integrate both coercion and attraction into the larger competition.
[00:38:12] So the Marine Corps is not they're saying here we're not just here to fight wars.
[00:38:17] We're here to build relationships. Now at echelon front, we talk about building relationships all the time.
[00:38:22] That's how you lead. You lead by building relationships. That's how you get things done by building relationships.
[00:38:30] And what we're talking about here is we are competing.
[00:38:34] And in order to compete, guess what we do.
[00:38:38] We build relationships.
[00:38:41] And just to get people example.
[00:38:44] And I'm sure you have some more Dave, but especially before the war started for me in the 90s.
[00:38:51] This is what the seal teams did.
[00:38:53] Go to a country train their special operations unit.
[00:38:57] Do a big exercise.
[00:38:59] Train them in the use of our weapons.
[00:39:01] We train in the use of their weapons.
[00:39:03] We send some people to learn how to speak their language.
[00:39:05] We bring some people to learn that they can learn how to speak English.
[00:39:08] We form these relationships. We work together.
[00:39:11] So that way we're strengthening our allies.
[00:39:14] We have somebody we can rely upon.
[00:39:16] We get to know them.
[00:39:17] That's just relationships. That's what it is.
[00:39:19] Did you guys do that in the pilot world?
[00:39:23] Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking about carrier deployments.
[00:39:25] And I think right now there's a connotation that the aircraft carrier.
[00:39:28] And it's by already always existed.
[00:39:30] But certainly now since post 911,
[00:39:32] the carriers, this power projection tool, this 90,000 tons of diplomacy,
[00:39:40] sovereign US soil all over the way.
[00:39:42] They have these great taglines.
[00:39:43] The navy leverages which are true in a lot of ways.
[00:39:46] But pre 911, if you ever did a cruise, pre 911,
[00:39:49] like I did back in the day, the joke,
[00:39:51] we called them pleasure cruises.
[00:39:53] It was like 13, 14 port calls.
[00:39:55] And the two months that you sailed from San Diego to the Persian Gulf,
[00:40:01] was a bunch of port calls.
[00:40:04] You're doing joint operations with different countries.
[00:40:07] You're pulling up here,
[00:40:09] side and contributing to their economy.
[00:40:10] You're building all those relationships.
[00:40:12] And most of it is allies or people we want to build relationships with.
[00:40:15] And you go to the Gulf for a couple months.
[00:40:16] Do that thing.
[00:40:17] And in that, you're doing three or four port calls to barrain.
[00:40:20] The UAE, all these places where we're trying to strengthen relationships.
[00:40:23] And that that carrier was an instrument of power projection.
[00:40:26] It was an instrument of diplomacy,
[00:40:28] which was building those relationships.
[00:40:30] Obviously, post 911, my experience, my second cruise,
[00:40:33] was like go to the North Arabian Gulf,
[00:40:35] stay there for seven months.
[00:40:36] Come home.
[00:40:37] But before that, the investment that Navy was making
[00:40:41] was mostly strengthening the relationships.
[00:40:43] And there are stories out there, even somewhat recently,
[00:40:45] that carriers would deploy for disaster relief with no aircraft on them,
[00:40:48] just to send a carrier to help floods and crazy things that happen
[00:40:52] in different places,
[00:40:53] strictly for strengthening ties and relationships
[00:40:56] that are projecting literal no combat power.
[00:40:59] By design because the Navy see,
[00:41:01] well, I'm sure it's larger than just the Navy,
[00:41:03] but that's my connection.
[00:41:04] And I'd deploy it off carriers for the most part.
[00:41:06] So that's attraction.
[00:41:08] That's attraction as opposed to the chance.
[00:41:11] We're just trying to show people,
[00:41:12] hey, you want to be friends with us.
[00:41:14] We're attractive.
[00:41:15] We can help you if you get no time to need.
[00:41:17] We're a good ally at a tactical level
[00:41:19] when I would deploy in the 90s.
[00:41:21] Perk and a curve.
[00:41:22] We would go out and do exercises
[00:41:25] where I would be in the jungle.
[00:41:28] With some special operations unit from some other country.
[00:41:33] What do you do when you are a fighter pilot?
[00:41:38] Same thing.
[00:41:39] Are you giving them a tour?
[00:41:41] Are you taking them in the backseat?
[00:41:42] Like, at a tactical level,
[00:41:44] just out of my own curiosity.
[00:41:46] What would you do?
[00:41:47] You're flying with them.
[00:41:48] You're spending time with them.
[00:41:49] And there's a little bit of a way.
[00:41:51] Are they flying their aircraft?
[00:41:52] And so you're there, you're wingman,
[00:41:53] and you work with them.
[00:41:54] Yeah, you're integrating with them.
[00:41:55] Sometimes you fight against them.
[00:41:56] Sometimes you fight with them.
[00:41:57] Really what it's supposed to be is because you ever put your ego in check
[00:42:00] and let one of these,
[00:42:02] let one of these foreigners beat you in a dogfight.
[00:42:05] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[00:42:07] Zero percent chance.
[00:42:09] Zero.
[00:42:10] Now, certain countries,
[00:42:12] they would have,
[00:42:13] we would fly with different countries that they would have different
[00:42:16] ROE, different rules, training rules and things like that.
[00:42:19] And you could see some of them were geared very specifically
[00:42:21] to make sure that certain people had advantages.
[00:42:24] And we would play by those rules and sometimes get in trouble
[00:42:28] for not following those rules.
[00:42:30] You know, one of the things that's really cool about the American military,
[00:42:33] and certainly in aviation.
[00:42:35] And there's a saying we have,
[00:42:36] I think there's no rank in the cockpit.
[00:42:37] So I could be the junior doing the squadron.
[00:42:39] I'm not saying this happened very often,
[00:42:40] but you could be a middle-level guy.
[00:42:41] You're going to go out, fly with your boss.
[00:42:43] And once you start fighting him,
[00:42:45] like you can pummel him to just pummel him into the ground.
[00:42:49] And it's, there is no like,
[00:42:51] death-friends like, I don't want to make the old man look bad.
[00:42:54] You go out there and do your thing.
[00:42:56] That's not always like that.
[00:42:57] But the interaction, in some sense,
[00:43:00] was this idea that this American military with this big,
[00:43:02] this big power aviation world is something they can learn from.
[00:43:05] But we always learned stuff from them too.
[00:43:07] We would share briefing techniques and how they ran their briefs,
[00:43:09] how they trained their guys,
[00:43:11] how they did certain things.
[00:43:12] And a lot of it,
[00:43:13] at least on paper, was for us to bring to them,
[00:43:15] things that could help them get better.
[00:43:17] But it was always reciprocal.
[00:43:19] We always learned from operating with other countries.
[00:43:21] And I flew with pilots and airplanes from all sorts of different countries.
[00:43:24] Even sometimes the same exact airplane,
[00:43:26] but they fly at differently.
[00:43:27] They do things differently.
[00:43:28] So there's a whole bunch of things that you can do to interact with them.
[00:43:31] That is beneficial for both.
[00:43:33] It was probably the opposite.
[00:43:35] What we knew and how we did it was using more,
[00:43:37] more beneficial to them,
[00:43:38] but it wasn't completely one side at either.
[00:43:41] Find dissimilar with different countries is a blast,
[00:43:43] because you learned stuff to go, oh man,
[00:43:45] we don't do that in our airplanes.
[00:43:46] That's really good for me to see.
[00:43:48] I think it would be more prepared for if something actually really happens.
[00:43:51] Would you guys go toe to toe, top gone,
[00:43:53] dog fight style, one on one?
[00:43:55] Yeah, you'd have different things.
[00:43:57] I have never been in a situation where if the brief was you and me
[00:44:00] are going to fight, I don't care,
[00:44:01] what country or what plan once fights on,
[00:44:03] it is game on.
[00:44:05] There is no like, hey, go easy on this guy or lift this guy.
[00:44:08] I have never been in a dog fight once in my life.
[00:44:11] Other than, hey, I'm, they're going to show you certain things.
[00:44:14] But if it's like a real dog fight,
[00:44:15] like just a real fight, you're just, you fight your best airplane.
[00:44:20] There are times that you would dial back your best jet because it'd be really,
[00:44:27] it would undermine the effectiveness of the training of the relationship
[00:44:31] of the big as well.
[00:44:32] But it never, like, oh, you did,
[00:44:34] we're eating, never good job.
[00:44:36] You really caught me off guard there.
[00:44:38] Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:39] You got me.
[00:44:40] That would be, you know, in the heyday of can you when you're a top
[00:44:44] guy and I pee and you're fighting against somebody else.
[00:44:46] And you're going to come back, no joke.
[00:44:47] You come back with 25 30 valid shots.
[00:44:50] That can be really disheartening for somebody who look on paper and go,
[00:44:53] hey, let me see your shot card and they've got zero shots.
[00:44:56] And you're like, oh, hang on, I need to get my second sheet of paper.
[00:44:59] And if there's a top guy and I pee or a web school IP listeners,
[00:45:02] they're laughing right?
[00:45:03] You can come back with in four or five sets, five six shots per and you have 30 valid shots.
[00:45:09] And the other guy's got zero.
[00:45:10] If you do that set after set after set after set after set after a while,
[00:45:14] it'd be like you and me rolling on the mats and you doing nothing but trying to beat me.
[00:45:18] You're not teaching me and not training me.
[00:45:19] You're just going to beat me and like, bro, what would?
[00:45:22] I don't want to do this anymore.
[00:45:24] So you would dial that back.
[00:45:25] But you never be like, oh, Dave, that was amazing.
[00:45:28] How you did that.
[00:45:29] I didn't think you could, you would never get to that level of that in an actual fight.
[00:45:34] When we're training and doing other things, yeah, you're there to learn and they learn from you
[00:45:38] and they learn from them.
[00:45:39] But I've never been in a one-one V-one where I'm dialing it back because somebody needs somebody saying,
[00:45:46] hey, don't fight your best gen.
[00:45:48] I'm only doing that in a tactical sense of helping him see sight pictures and maneuvering in a way that's benefiting him.
[00:45:54] But not like, because I feel bad or something like that.
[00:45:58] Are the personalities of the foreign countries, fighter pilots similar to Americans?
[00:46:05] Yeah, one of the things, I'd be interested in what you saw with special forces around the world.
[00:46:10] What I came to find is, despite what appears to be a whole bunch of differences between different countries when it came down to it,
[00:46:15] the personality of fighter pilots are really similar.
[00:46:18] There are differences.
[00:46:19] There are some cultural things, there are some organizational things.
[00:46:21] But at the end of the day, fighter pilots that fight fighters in any country and every type of fighter, they're much more similar than they are different.
[00:46:30] Yeah, same thing with special operations.
[00:46:36] There's definitely some differences in culture and whatnot.
[00:46:40] It's a pretty thin layer that you have to pull back and all of a sudden.
[00:46:42] Oh, these guys are kind of just like us.
[00:46:44] The mentality of the totally.
[00:46:46] From a maintenance perspective.
[00:46:50] It seems like just the American sort of, from manufacturing to maintenance,
[00:46:57] the maintenance programs and the Navy, even in the SEAL teams, we would especially.
[00:47:01] Before the once the war started, we kind of we saw less of the Navy kind of administrative stuff on our inside the terms.
[00:47:13] But when the 90s it was like, hey, you got to do these protocols that the big Navy follows and so you'd see, oh, well, you know, these guys are square to weather.
[00:47:21] The Navy is square to wait. There's a reason that when you when you pull a piece of firefighting gear off of a wall on a ship that's been there for three years.
[00:47:33] It works. It works because it's gone through this maintenance check. It's gone through every 30 days and every 90 days.
[00:47:37] It's gotten this and it's got this and the other thing is, are there are, do foreign countries have that same level of.
[00:47:45] Being square to away from a maintenance perspective.
[00:47:47] You know, I don't know if I ever got to that level that layer of fidelity.
[00:47:53] I will say that the American military, certainly the Navy and the Marine Corps, I get most of my experience with, that is something we take really, really seriously.
[00:48:05] And what you just described is the equipment that we have, the things we have as old as they are, whatever, the things we have work.
[00:48:12] And that when I'm manned up an aircraft, I never once got an airplane and felt like kind of sketchy about it. Never once did I get an airplane and not feel like I'm getting an airplane.
[00:48:23] And I'm not sure if that's true for other countries or other other services outside of America, but I always, and I've flown with the Navy a lot, I've owned the Marine Corps a lot, I've owned the Air Force a lot, and that is universal.
[00:48:36] So I have a different feeling and I have gotten into aircraft and been completely sketched out with both my fingers crossed, hoping that this thing is going to make it.
[00:48:44] And in all those cases, it was an aircraft that was not an American military aircraft in your country.
[00:48:50] Well, I guess this is good go down like that, this could be it.
[00:48:54] I never had the best feeling.
[00:48:56] And what's weird is, you know, the other thing about the American military aircraft is not working, man.
[00:49:03] Like the Navy helicopters, they're just, they're daily drivers.
[00:49:09] They're daily driver, a CH-46, a Navy CH-46, that thing is a daily driver.
[00:49:17] That thing is a Ford F-150, that's just ready.
[00:49:22] You have to think it's going to do its job.
[00:49:24] So I always felt, even though there'd be hydraulic fluid all over the deck and it would be a little bit, it would look sketchy.
[00:49:32] But you know that that thing's been flying.
[00:49:35] Well, first of all, how old is CH-46 platform?
[00:49:37] 19 early 1960s.
[00:49:41] And some of those birds are from the 1960s.
[00:49:43] Still flying.
[00:49:44] Well, at least they were still flying when I was in.
[00:49:48] Yeah.
[00:49:49] All right, little tangent right there.
[00:49:55] And what's interesting is everything we just talked about.
[00:49:58] All plays, that's what this whole book is about. It's about competition.
[00:50:02] But it's all those things that's the reason I was kind of diving into it.
[00:50:04] It's all these things are how we are competing with our allies and with our rivals.
[00:50:10] And we're letting everybody know that this is what we've got.
[00:50:12] And these are capabilities and this is what we can do.
[00:50:14] Like that's all part of the game.
[00:50:16] Yeah.
[00:50:17] And I was thinking that that tangent was also like, that's what makes us professionals.
[00:50:21] That's the profession of what we're doing.
[00:50:23] It's not a hobby.
[00:50:25] As fun as it is, it's flying airplanes, all those are professional things.
[00:50:29] And that's when we're working with other countries.
[00:50:33] The one thing I will say this is that I know when you're going to fight someone
[00:50:37] outside of your squadron.
[00:50:39] So another squadron.
[00:50:40] And then outside of the service, like we're going to go with the air force.
[00:50:42] You had the sense of like, you're going to be on your A game.
[00:50:45] When we were fighting with other countries, it was like, you,
[00:50:47] you were going to show them your absolute best game in everything we do
[00:50:52] from brief to shut down and everything in between.
[00:50:55] So there was a sense of looking the part and that every step away from your squadron
[00:51:00] from your bros that went up higher.
[00:51:02] Like don't you go fight with the air force and embarrass us?
[00:51:05] And when you're fighting with foreign countries,
[00:51:07] the need to look professional was absolutely understood.
[00:51:11] Verbalized at all or no?
[00:51:13] Absolutely.
[00:51:14] Absolutely.
[00:51:15] Check.
[00:51:17] Who would you train with?
[00:51:18] Like for example, like what other country?
[00:51:20] I mean, okay, so I have trained personally with Canadians, Australians,
[00:51:27] Brits, Saudis, Emirates, Kuwaitis, Singapore, Malaysia.
[00:51:36] I'm running out there's more.
[00:51:38] These are all just interfaces or services.
[00:51:41] Your country that fly different airplanes or interacted in some way.
[00:51:45] Japan, a whole bunch of countries.
[00:51:47] Do you ever fly their planes?
[00:51:49] So every, you said something.
[00:51:52] I'm kind of laughing at it and I didn't know we're going to circle back to it.
[00:51:55] Every single time you go to this kind of the last day or two, you have some graduation
[00:51:58] thing and they're always offering, hey, you jump in there.
[00:52:01] And remember, I flew single-seater planes.
[00:52:03] So it wasn't always that we could do that.
[00:52:05] But if there's a two-seat jet or something, we always offering.
[00:52:07] And they're always offering us, hey, jump in the back seat.
[00:52:09] I never once, never once.
[00:52:12] I don't want to be in the back seat.
[00:52:13] First of all, of anything.
[00:52:14] Certainly not a former Soviet Union,
[00:52:18] but in the middle of the day,
[00:52:20] I never got in the back seat of somebody else's airplane.
[00:52:22] You were busy.
[00:52:23] Couldn't do it that day.
[00:52:24] Not available.
[00:52:26] And that I think is what you're saying.
[00:52:28] I don't know anything about anything.
[00:52:29] I don't know anything about this airplane.
[00:52:31] Yeah.
[00:52:31] First of all, I don't want anything to be the back seat.
[00:52:33] I don't know if the cool, and guys would kill for that stuff.
[00:52:36] And I never wanted to do it.
[00:52:37] Being a back of a flanker or a maid or something.
[00:52:41] Go for a good.
[00:52:42] That's all you.
[00:52:43] Yeah.
[00:52:44] Sometimes you'd have the same planes, don't we?
[00:52:45] Yeah.
[00:52:47] Yeah.
[00:52:48] Canadians, Australians, we play the exact same airplanes.
[00:52:50] It's the like in the sealed teams.
[00:52:53] If you're going to do something, you're in some foreign aircraft.
[00:52:55] The only way to get out of it would be to basically quit.
[00:53:00] You know, you can't say, well, hey, guys,
[00:53:03] I'm not really comfortable with this aircraft.
[00:53:05] And so you're sitting there in a squad.
[00:53:08] And every single one of those,
[00:53:09] there's probably like there's everything one of those guys is thinking, we should not be doing this.
[00:53:15] And every single one of those guys doesn't say,
[00:53:17] I've worked about it, gets on that bird, and goes and does what you got to do.
[00:53:20] Not me.
[00:53:21] Back to the book, Warfighting also instructs that the quote,
[00:53:28] Military Profession is a thinking profession.
[00:53:32] End quote.
[00:53:33] This means that Marines must practice mental,
[00:53:36] the mental discipline necessary to challenge our assumptions.
[00:53:40] As professionals, we need to disproportionately assess the environment and make certain we are setting the pace for our competitors.
[00:53:46] I was on with a client the other day.
[00:53:48] And well, you know, the lead into the question that I got asked was, well, you know, in the military, of course,
[00:53:53] it's a, it's a very hierarchy structure thing.
[00:53:58] And what you want is people at all think the same way.
[00:54:01] You know, that was the lead into the question.
[00:54:03] So any ask the question, then I had to start with,
[00:54:05] let me just tell you that the last thing I want on my team is a bunch of people that think the same way I do.
[00:54:09] Actually, I want a bunch of people that push back and think different thoughts and see different perspectives than me.
[00:54:14] And so here's the Marine Corps, quoting from their, their manual number one,
[00:54:20] which is called Warfighting Military Profession is a thinking profession.
[00:54:24] And it takes discipline to challenge our own assumptions.
[00:54:29] Again, it's totally, the complete opposite of what everyone thinks the Marine Corps is.
[00:54:35] Everybody thinks everyone want the old. We want every Marine to think the same. No, you don't.
[00:54:39] We want them to actually, it's actually we're being instructed to challenge our own assumptions.
[00:54:44] Yeah, I like that connection to you were talking earlier about wanting to see this thing connect back to humility,
[00:54:50] which was that sentence kind of started this.
[00:54:52] And that there is, there is an undeniable connection there.
[00:54:55] The mental discipline necessarily challenged our own assumptions. The humility that it takes to go and look at your own,
[00:55:02] guess your own assumption to go, I might be wrong.
[00:55:06] The humility inside of that and they're calling it mental discipline,
[00:55:10] but those two are completely linked.
[00:55:12] And even if you just think about the things you say, the self discipline it takes for you to do the things that you do is discipline as you are.
[00:55:18] The reason you do it is that you don't want to get complacent.
[00:55:21] You don't want to get comfortable. You don't want to get weak. So you have the mental discipline to do that.
[00:55:25] And that is humility.
[00:55:27] Because if you don't, I can skip a day.
[00:55:30] I just skip a couple days, whatever.
[00:55:32] Either a lack of mental discipline or a lack of humility will lead you to not challenge your assumptions and just think that everything is going fine.
[00:55:39] And we'll just go through with it.
[00:55:40] My plan's good to go.
[00:55:41] Yeah.
[00:55:44] Next section is education.
[00:55:46] But before we go into this next section, let me ask you this.
[00:55:49] Do you remember when I was talking about diving and not wanting to be the buddy?
[00:55:54] Yeah.
[00:55:55] Totally.
[00:55:56] So that was, I think when we were talking about it, I was just, you know, the single seat mindset of my experience.
[00:56:03] You know, is it a similar thing where if you're in the back seat, you're just kind of not in control and you're not much to do and you're sort of,
[00:56:10] Yeah, I mean, that was for me.
[00:56:13] And there were guys just like me that had no problem sitting in the back seat.
[00:56:18] If, if you lined up like 10 fighter pilots today and like, hey, do you want to go fly in the back seat of an authentic P51 from World War II?
[00:56:29] Nine of them would be in there like this and I would say no thanks.
[00:56:32] So it could even be a hundred or ninety nine of them would say I'll be in there.
[00:56:36] Just about every one of you in there, I'm not even a pilot.
[00:56:39] Yeah.
[00:56:39] And I understand that the historical significance of it.
[00:56:43] And I'm not even sure it's rational to even think that, but I never, ever, ever, even even wanting to fly a two-seat airplane.
[00:56:53] I didn't want to do that because I didn't, I didn't want people looking at me.
[00:56:58] You know, like, hey, what do you like?
[00:57:00] I got this, you know, and that's all young.
[00:57:03] I mean, I think I'll grow them out in some ways, but there is an absolute mental, a uniqueness of being alone in an airplane.
[00:57:11] There is a, there's something about that.
[00:57:13] There's something unique about that.
[00:57:15] You know, I got a big smile in my face right now.
[00:57:17] So there's a, I'm not even a hundred percent sure about this, but I'm ninety nine.
[00:57:25] This is why this is great.
[00:57:27] Every time you say single seat, every time you're like, well, it's a single seat.
[00:57:32] There's a, there's a Ferrari sports car, which is one of the,
[00:57:40] one of the most expensive Ferrari's that you can get.
[00:57:44] It's nuts.
[00:57:46] You know, it's got 10 million horsepower, and it can do the whatever.
[00:57:50] And it's a single seat car.
[00:57:56] And I, we're going to, I'm going to have to fact check this.
[00:57:59] The name of the car is ego-east.
[00:58:05] That's the name.
[00:58:07] It's like something ego.
[00:58:09] That's the name of the car.
[00:58:11] Totally.
[00:58:12] I'm in this thing by myself.
[00:58:14] There's not even anyone else to come in in here.
[00:58:16] It's not possible.
[00:58:17] This is all about me.
[00:58:19] Well, I think of the ego.
[00:58:20] I mean, if you want to think about even just me, think of the ego of,
[00:58:24] um, flying for the military, not good enough.
[00:58:29] Flying helicopters, not good enough.
[00:58:31] Flying cobras, not good enough.
[00:58:33] Flying jets, not good enough.
[00:58:35] Flying F-18s, not good enough.
[00:58:37] Flying single seat F-18s.
[00:58:39] Okay, that'll do.
[00:58:40] Like the criteria of what I had created in my mind of what success was.
[00:58:45] Like what success was was just that.
[00:58:49] And, and I don't mean to like presume that I know what you, you know, what you,
[00:58:56] you were thinking, but hey, do you want to just be in the Navy?
[00:58:59] That's not enough for me.
[00:59:00] Uh, you could be a diver, or like, and you could go to the military,
[00:59:03] like, and even, and I'm, I'm implying like it's kind of crazy.
[00:59:06] Like green berate.
[00:59:08] Mmm.
[00:59:09] That's not what I want to do.
[00:59:10] Like, juggle.
[00:59:12] You know, many people would kill to say their green berate, like, yeah, I know I understand it,
[00:59:17] but that's not what I want.
[00:59:19] And I had created a scenario in my mind, like, if it's not a single seat,
[00:59:23] I lot F-18 in the Marine Corps, I'm not going to be happy, which is kind of,
[00:59:28] it's insane.
[00:59:29] It's crazy, but that is, that is what, that's what I wanted to do.
[00:59:35] And I don't, maybe if I ended up in a two-seat garage in what I've somehow go, hey,
[00:59:38] you know what, I was in the Navy.
[00:59:39] This was, this is totally awesome.
[00:59:40] This is great.
[00:59:41] Maybe.
[00:59:43] But you, you know, the ego, the power of the ego going.
[00:59:48] And that's, I think, not to defend myself too much, but I think it's a little bit different than arrogance.
[00:59:57] The ego and the arrogance, you know, the flaunting of, I'm better than you are against,
[01:00:01] and more like, no, that to me is the hardest, that's the highest peak you can get to.
[01:00:05] That's where I want to be.
[01:00:07] And I had created it that, that's what I wanted.
[01:00:10] And other guys like, they didn't, I don't think I'll fly whatever.
[01:00:13] Uh-oh.
[01:00:14] Really?
[01:00:15] Yeah, cool, whatever, I'll fly that.
[01:00:17] Cool.
[01:00:18] So, go fly that.
[01:00:20] If you don't have that, how far do you make it?
[01:00:26] Not where I wanted to go.
[01:00:29] I mean, okay, so there might be some small tiny, minuscule part of the population that
[01:00:34] is just so talented that they can kind of just cruise by and they're going to get it.
[01:00:39] Right.
[01:00:40] Yeah.
[01:00:41] There are.
[01:00:42] And there's some people that are like, guess what I'm doing this weekend.
[01:00:43] I'm sharpening my knife and polishing my boots.
[01:00:45] Yeah.
[01:00:46] Because that was me in seal training.
[01:00:47] You know, me in seal training was, oh, guys are going to go to whatever, you know,
[01:00:51] go to the mall, go try and meet girls or whatever.
[01:00:53] I'm going to sharpen my knife the whole weekend and get ready for inspection.
[01:00:58] Because I want to make sure I get through this thing.
[01:01:00] Because I'm not sure, I see pitfalls all over the place and I don't need any more pitfalls than
[01:01:04] or are these assistants.
[01:01:05] And you're not going to feel like you're missing out either.
[01:01:07] You're not like, man, I wish I was at the bar.
[01:01:09] You're not thinking about it all.
[01:01:11] You're like, this is what I should be doing.
[01:01:12] This is what I should be doing.
[01:01:13] I don't care about anything else.
[01:01:14] So you don't even feel like you're doing it even though you don't want to.
[01:01:18] You wouldn't want to do anything else.
[01:01:20] Matter of fact, if you did the other thing, you're like, you know what I should be doing
[01:01:22] right now?
[01:01:23] I should be back home prepping.
[01:01:24] That's what I should be doing.
[01:01:26] So the, I think that's the difference.
[01:01:30] Well, maybe not the difference, but when you talk about, when you talk about ego.
[01:01:36] And you cross section some humility in there.
[01:01:39] Guess what that equals.
[01:01:40] That equals someone that's working as hard as they possibly can and holding themselves the highest
[01:01:44] possible standards so that they can achieve what they want to achieve.
[01:01:47] When someone's just arrogant, guess what they don't do that extra studying.
[01:01:51] They don't stay in sharpen their knives.
[01:01:53] They don't. And look, there's a tiny, minuscule percentage chance that they have the natural
[01:01:59] talent. And it's probably, well, it's, I'll tell you it's a lot easier in the see it to get through
[01:02:06] basic seal training, just based on the fact that you're really good athlete and you're
[01:02:10] decently tough.
[01:02:12] And if you have that, you can be pretty arrogant and still make it through because you don't really
[01:02:16] need to do anything extra because you can do a role climb and you can carry a log around
[01:02:20] and it's like, okay, you know, you played whatever. You did track and field and you played football
[01:02:25] and you, you know, you show up and you're 21 years old and you're really good shape.
[01:02:29] You can be pretty arrogant and not really have to do anything extra and make it through the program.
[01:02:35] I bet that's a little bit more challenging. There's probably less people that would fall into that category
[01:02:40] in pilot school because you get hit with the academics.
[01:02:43] You get hit with the, the fine motor skills.
[01:02:47] You get hit with the, the natural ability to, like I remember when I took the test for officer
[01:02:54] candidate school and they're showing you pictures and what is this, is this plain, they're
[01:02:59] showing, like, I was even going into aviation or anything. They're showing you a plane.
[01:03:03] Is this thing coming or going? Is this that?
[01:03:05] And so you're getting hit with those kind of tests as well. So there's got to be, there's,
[01:03:10] there's different types of screening that's taking place that are more, there's a,
[01:03:15] there's a broader modality of screening as opposed to seal training. It's like,
[01:03:19] be cold, do pull ups. That's, that's not a huge, how much autonomy do you have over your schedule
[01:03:28] and stuff in, in seal training as well? I'm sure some point you have zero, but do you have a bunch of free time
[01:03:33] do you surprisingly, what surprising to a lot of people is you do have a lot.
[01:03:38] Yeah, you do have a decent amount of free time and that is part of the test.
[01:03:42] Yeah, part of the test is, oh, you want to go get drunk and get in a fight. Cool. You're not here anymore.
[01:03:46] Right. Because you just got in trouble. We don't need you in the seal teams. Oh, you did, you just went and
[01:03:51] didn't prepare this weekend and now you're failing your third inspection. Cool. We don't need you in the
[01:03:55] seal teams. Like, so there is a, they have to give you some opportunity. They have to give you enough
[01:03:59] rope that you can hang yourself and you certainly can. And there's plenty of, plenty of guys that did.
[01:04:03] Yeah. Plenty of guys that got in trouble in town, didn't come back from Mexico in time for
[01:04:08] master and, you know, you hit a couple of those things and you're, you're gone. So they give you enough
[01:04:13] rope if you're knucklehead, you'll hang yourself with it. But other than that, if you can do pull ups and you
[01:04:20] can suffer, you can do it with some rope climbs, you can kind of just grit through it.
[01:04:26] And that's why I think you, that's why I think I would venture to say that we have a higher
[01:04:33] percentage of arrogance in the seal teams because you don't, because you're not going to get
[01:04:38] humbled quite as much as as you are in such a selective scenario as going to flight
[01:04:45] school. Well, going to OCS, going to the basic school, you know, getting down selected,
[01:04:50] down selected to get in, down selected at OCS, down selected at the basic school,
[01:04:57] down selected at flight school. And then down selected to go to top gone. Like, that's
[01:05:02] a bunch of very narrow, very narrow funnels that you got to get through. If you're going to
[01:05:09] make it all the way to top gone instructor, we don't, that's a bunch of very narrow things
[01:05:16] to pass. Yeah, even with that, it's not a flawless system. I mean, even with that,
[01:05:23] there are, there are, there that maybe shouldn't be there. I, I, I equate, and I'm probably
[01:05:34] wrong about this. Just my perception, I equate the seals, being in A B seal as, as
[01:05:40] even inside the community of these highly, highly capable special operations organizations
[01:05:45] through the different services that the seals, I elevate them in my own mind, that
[01:05:50] there's just something unique about that. And if I take a step back and I think, like, okay,
[01:05:55] flying F-16s with the Air Force or flying F-18s for the Navy, then Marine Corps. Look,
[01:05:59] man, it's the same. And there's probably people's like, greenberry and ABC, like, you could
[01:06:02] account a couple of that are, that's not what I had in my mind, that there was a piece
[01:06:09] that would just set up a tiny bit compared to everything else. That's what I think,
[01:06:13] when I think from the outside of seals, or at least can understand someone in your
[01:06:17] shoes going, that one. And I would say when I was 18 and I was raising my right hand to
[01:06:23] and listening to the Navy, that's what I was thinking. Once I was in and I worked with the,
[01:06:27] I worked with the Marine Corps, I worked with your Army Special Forces, I worked with the
[01:06:30] totally soldiers from the hundred and first airborne. I realized there's guys here that are
[01:06:34] ten times better than me. And there and there and there and a ground pounder in an infantry unit.
[01:06:40] Yeah, good. I am a humble person. I was going to ask you, so what, once you make it through
[01:06:45] Wicked after Wicked after, after Nera Wicked after Nera Wicked after Nera Wicked and now you're
[01:06:50] to point where you're a top gun senior instructor and there's no person that can beat
[01:06:55] you in a dogfight. How are you finding your humility at that point? For me, it was that
[01:07:05] there actually still were people that could beat me. Got it. And I think it was almost
[01:07:10] luck that I was able to keep being reminded of that. And what I mean by that is, no one,
[01:07:20] I will never, even if you could track it, I will never be considered the best. Even
[01:07:25] the guys at my top end of my generation, I'm in a conversation of a couple of guys, but
[01:07:30] nobody's going to go, oh, they broke was the best guy. Nobody's going to say that I,
[01:07:33] I simply was not. Now, I was good enough to be in a strad of a couple people that
[01:07:38] we had a small pool of of instructors that sort of fit in that little category. And I was in there.
[01:07:44] But no question that I was not at the top is there a singular person that was, or is it to,
[01:07:50] no, it's, it's usually not, and it's, in my experience, it was like, there's a little
[01:07:55] group, but inside that every now and then, those guys get to fight each other. And what
[01:08:01] almost always happened is it's, at the end, it's neutral. You come back and it was awesome,
[01:08:05] but nobody got really the upper hand. Every now and then go, oh, dude, he was pushing me around
[01:08:09] a little bit. So he, but it's never like he shot me or he was pushing, he bullying me.
[01:08:13] He was like, you had like 10 degrees on me there at the end of that 20 minute fight.
[01:08:17] So it was really super. I went out towards the later half of my career.
[01:08:21] I was the, I was the senior instructor at talk and I was the training officer as a marine.
[01:08:25] So you're talking wicked after wicked, I went out and flew with a guy named Tim Downing,
[01:08:28] legendary Navy pilot, CEO of Top Gun, my boss at the time. And he went out.
[01:08:34] And we did four fights. First three were just how you play out neutral, neutral, neutral.
[01:08:39] I was paying really close attention. I got to the last fight and I, I did the first turn.
[01:08:43] I go, I'm going to get him. I got him. I figured him out.
[01:08:46] And it was going to be a really satisfying moment for me.
[01:08:50] And he ended up doing something. I didn't think it even be done in there.
[01:08:54] And he, he completely pummeled me. And to the point that I'm looking over from my shoulder,
[01:08:59] almost like a brand new guy don't know what, what is happening.
[01:09:02] How did this happen to me? And you know, he's laughing at me on the radio.
[01:09:07] And not only went out for get it, those are the things that just the right intervals in my career.
[01:09:13] Right when I was about to go over the edge of unbeatable, I'm better than everybody.
[01:09:17] I never got to that point because something would always happen and go, and I would go, oh, damn.
[01:09:23] That guy is better than me.
[01:09:26] Trim did that to me at a time where had had that not happened. I just didn't fight against him. There's some risk that I could have just left there and gone off the deep end and look back and go.
[01:09:34] I was the best pal in the world, which is in a ridiculous thought.
[01:09:38] I was lucky that every interval where I got right to the edge, something would happen to me and go, dude, that guy is better than you.
[01:09:46] And it happened just enough. Now, that doesn't happen to a lot of people.
[01:09:51] And, and, what do you mean that doesn't, what doesn't?
[01:09:54] The, the reminder, there are people that manage to get through and not have that experience happen.
[01:09:59] And, and the irony is that there's, there's, there's more humility at top gun than you would think because it keeps happening.
[01:10:09] When you get stratified in an organization like top gun, that is humbling because everybody gets there for the same reason.
[01:10:16] You get there because you are the best.
[01:10:19] And then you get there and then you kind of start stratifying inside that and that little tear that I was talking about that line and then the three or four.
[01:10:29] Everybody knows who those guys are. Everybody, especially if you're not one of them.
[01:10:34] And that, that is, that is a humbling thing in and of itself.
[01:10:40] And if you make it up there, the only risk is if you kind of believe it like, oh, I'm here because I'm better than everyone.
[01:10:46] If you don't get beat at some interval, that's where you can kind of go, hey, I have done something that nobody else can, I've made it to a place that nobody else can make.
[01:10:56] That fight against trim, you could call him right now and he would, he would know exactly what I'm talking about.
[01:11:03] Because he also knew it from the, he had been in, this was third time on the staff as an instructor, he'd been there three times.
[01:11:08] He had seen it all.
[01:11:10] And the crazy part about that was where the first three fights are set up.
[01:11:15] I don't think so. I really don't. I think the set up for him was the third, the second merge of the fourth fight, where I looked over and I'm like, ah, he's slow.
[01:11:25] He can't make this turn. He can't do this maneuver. I'm going to, I can draw it out.
[01:11:30] I unload and I said, he doesn't have the airspeed to fly over the top. He can't do a loop in this case.
[01:11:37] The difference was, as my threshold for loop airspeed, which was really low, his was lower than mine.
[01:11:43] And that's something. Why? Because of his aircraft, because of his, because of his skill.
[01:11:48] His ability to fly. So I have a, we'd have a thing called, so you could do a, like, friends and you could do a loop in a half a mile and he could do one in, it's more of a mile.
[01:11:57] It's more of speed, but yeah, so we had a thing called min vertical airspeed.
[01:12:01] We would teach guys, below 150 knots, you cannot go over the top. You can't loop your jet.
[01:12:05] We did that to keep people from, you know, spinning airplanes out of control.
[01:12:09] My min vertical airspeed was way lower than that. Like what?
[01:12:13] No, no, I mean, at this point, I don't, I'm, I'm good. Probably, I don't know, 115, 100.
[01:12:18] You can milk it up 120. And, and his, because he was a better pilot than me, he was able to fly his airplane closer to the edge of being out of control than I was.
[01:12:32] And I did my math of, nobody can do that. I can do that.
[01:12:35] And I got right to my, my min vertical airspeed. He was slower than me, which meant I actually had an advantage over him.
[01:12:41] I had more speed than him, probably 10 knots over him. So these are really fine margins.
[01:12:46] But that 10 knot differential didn't affect him as much as it affected me.
[01:12:51] So when I wound up, and I literally looked this way, thinking he'd be falling off, you have to be left.
[01:12:56] And, and he wasn't there, and I'm like, well, where else could he be?
[01:13:00] And he was actually inside my turn above me, and I'm, and I'm part of the thing like, you physically can't do that.
[01:13:06] Like, you physics won't allow that.
[01:13:09] The only thing that allowed us, and, and you remember Dan Petterson talking about flying the airplane beyond the facility.
[01:13:15] Yeah, absolutely. That's what I was thinking.
[01:13:16] And, and at the end of it, the simple Twitter described it, that guy was a better pilot than I was.
[01:13:20] He could do something in his machine that I couldn't do the exact same machine.
[01:13:23] And the, and the outcome was, he wins.
[01:13:26] And not like a little advantage. It was a lopsided one sided at the end was he's directly behind me laughing at me.
[01:13:33] If you can't get some humility from that and go, oh, I, okay, I've made it all the way up here, and there's still someone better than me.
[01:13:41] And thank God those things happen to me, Jocca. Like, thank God that happened to me.
[01:13:45] Because I can keep, I take that with me, and, and I keep that, and that was a really good lesson for me.
[01:13:51] Had that been reversed? Who knows, man?
[01:13:54] Yeah, General Boyd, when Dan Petterson was talking about the fact that he went to the conference in General Boyd was talking,
[01:14:00] who is the, you know, and he's saying, look, this is what the aircraft really, we can do it.
[01:14:03] We can calculate more, and all the top gun guys are going, we can do things that are beyond that.
[01:14:08] That's right. And what that reminds me of is that you'll be doing Gigi into someone.
[01:14:12] And now have some capability that's not normal.
[01:14:17] The two capabilities that might not be normal, one is flexibility.
[01:14:21] Someone that's massively flexible, and you get past their guard, and you think you're past their guard, and there's no human that's going to be able to take the leg and put it back in front of you.
[01:14:31] And yet they do it, or someone that's just psychoshrong, and you get across side on them, and they kind of bridge and get a position with their hands, and you're going, what are you going to do? Push me off of them.
[01:14:43] And that's pretty freaking crazy, but it's a similar thing that there's no possible way you think.
[01:14:49] There's no human that's going to put their leg in front of me right now.
[01:14:52] Jeff Glover. Jeff Glover like your past is guarding, and there's a leg coming over your side, and you're thinking,
[01:14:58] Yeah. Who is there someone else on the map with us right now?
[01:15:01] Because a human can't do this. Well, he's doing it right now, and he's got your back.
[01:15:06] And the other thing I was thinking about was I was on my first deployment to Iraq, and we were doing a bunch of ops and it looked.
[01:15:12] At this point, I was very lucky because there wasn't a lot of people that we were the only platoon.
[01:15:20] And I rack it this time. For a short period of time, I had the only platoon in Iraq, and we were tossed up with some people, but I had the own, imagine that.
[01:15:28] I'm imagining that. All the seals I have the only platoon in Iraq.
[01:15:32] So it's freaking awesome. And I remember, and then eventually, you know, now the other platoon started coming in when my other platoon started coming in, my commanding officer came in.
[01:15:41] And we had a really good relationship, guide work from before, and we had done a series of operations, rapid operations, really tight turn times, and got the targets we were going after.
[01:15:57] And I remember, my commanding officer gave me some incredibly strong compliment.
[01:16:04] You know, like, I mean, now it sounds completely ridiculous. At the time, it was this, you know, really strong compliment about what incredible, you know, ground breaking and all this stuff.
[01:16:16] And I looked at it, remember, I looked at it, and I said, hey, sir, give me 24 hours, and I'll screw it up.
[01:16:21] Because, and the reason I said that is because I don't only saw operations, you're like, man, so many things can go wrong. Bad things can happen.
[01:16:31] And I don't even, you know, and we had already had some bad things happen. You know, we'd already had some mistakes. We had already had some things that should have gone different.
[01:16:38] And maybe they didn't quite leak out to, you know, maybe we kept them inside the platoon, like, hey, dude, what were you doing? Why were you over there? If we would have, you know, if we didn't deconstruct it that moment, you could have got shot like, like, some things where we got away with it, right?
[01:16:52] And I got away with some mistakes. And so he's telling me what a great job, and I just looked at him as he gave us 24 hours and I'll screw it up. And, and that to me is something I always tell myself, you know,
[01:17:04] there always have that always have that, that person whispering in your ear telling you that all glory is fleeting because it is.
[01:17:13] I think that lesson is, it's impossible to say how important that is. And you probably know this, but every single day at work at echelon front, no matter what good work we've done, no matter what impact made, no matter what the client tells me, how great echelon front is, every single new phone call, every single, every time I do the same thing I've done 100 times, I think about that.
[01:17:39] And that event I was talking about in the earplane, that's why I think like that. And I think like that every single time, every single day, I'm about to start off a keynote that I've done 100 times or 400 times.
[01:17:54] And I think, you don't want to screw this up, you got to get this right. You can undo all the work that you've done by not having this be as good as every other one that you do.
[01:18:06] So there's so much value in that recognition. And for me, being reminded that at my best, there's still somebody better, that I keep with me every single day, every day and everything that I do. So losing is sometimes a good thing.
[01:18:30] We're about to jump into the next section before I went down that tangent education. And by the way, we're on page six now out of this chapter, we're moving right along.
[01:18:39] Professional military education from Marines Intensity Develop Creative Thinking Leaders in a continuous progressive process of development.
[01:18:48] Those are some words that people do not think of when they think of the United States Marine Corps or the military at large, creative thinking leaders in a continuous progressive process of development.
[01:18:59] This philosophy aligns well with the kind of education Marines need to succeed in competition as well as in war.
[01:19:06] While the nature of competition endures over extended periods, like war, its character constantly evolves.
[01:19:14] Rivals continually strive to improve their competitive advantages, strive to gain the initiative, and strive to keep their competitors off balance.
[01:19:25] If you wake up in the morning and you just read that line to yourself, that your rivals are continually striving to improve their competitive advantages, they're striving to gain the initiative, and they're striving to keep you off of balance, that's a good thing to wake up to in the morning.
[01:19:39] Because it's really easy to forget that.
[01:19:44] Education is a primary method for Marines to sustain competitive advantage over time.
[01:19:52] I'm going to say that again, what's the primary method? Is it marksmanship? Is it battle exercises? No, they're saying education.
[01:20:04] Now, it's a primary, but a lot of people don't think that that even falls in the top 10 for the Marine Corps education.
[01:20:11] As Marine leaders progress through their careers, they need to develop mastery of the concepts that provide an ability to lead organizations like the Marine Corps through cycles of innovation.
[01:20:20] Cycles of innovation that are essential to staying at the forefront of competition.
[01:20:26] These concepts go beyond just adaptation. They go beyond just, look, if you're just adapting to what's happening, you're wrong.
[01:20:36] If I'm just adapting to what you're doing, Dave, I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I need to be making you adapt to what I'm doing. I'm going to be on offense.
[01:20:43] They include topics like organizational learning, the ability for an organization to sense changes in its environment.
[01:20:49] Not react to changes in its mind, but sense those changes. You know, lately I've been talking a lot about, but just being more aware of what's happening when people ask me, well, the home life balance.
[01:21:03] You know how much I'm supposed to say, hey, the answer is you need to balance them. How can I help you? I can help you by making sure that you're more aware and you're more attuned to when things get off balance. You need to sense those things more.
[01:21:17] And you need to sense changes in the environment and approve. It's effectiveness and efficiency in response to those changes change management when leaders are able to implement needed change in an organization while keeping its people engaged.
[01:21:29] And the difference between sustaining and disruptive innovation, which is essentially a difference between incremental improvements of what already exists versus new and better approaches that displaced the old methods over time.
[01:21:43] That's what we're trying to do. It is not enough for Marines to educate themselves on war and war fighting alone. Such a narrow focus limits the benefit they can give to the nation.
[01:21:55] Most of our Marines career will be spent training in the fleet marine force or serving in a support establishment, understanding competition and how the Marine Corps contributes to it is an essential skill, especially for career Marines who will have the greatest impact on the Marine Corps competitive attributes over time.
[01:22:12] Self-education in social, economic, technological and other matters beyond military history and leadership are essential if Marines are to excel in competition.
[01:22:22] Now, what's really cool about working at National Humphrum and working with all these different companies is we get to work in economic environments.
[01:22:32] We get to work in technological environments, we get to work in construction and manufacturing to work in all these different environments. And what's awesome is when we can take what we know and we can overlay it into those things and get to see and get to learn how our principles impact even in these this wide array of different environments.
[01:22:59] And that actually makes us smarter because when I see how a principle, when I see how cover move applies in a manufacturing plant and I see how it works in a financial company and I see how it works in a sales organization.
[01:23:19] When I see all those things, guess what I know better, I know cover and move better, I understand it better.
[01:23:26] And that's what they're talking about here. The better you understand all these different aspects of what's going on in the competition between America and other nation states, the better you can see how your, how your organization contributes to that competition and how you can better contribute to that competition.
[01:23:49] The goal for education then is to foster awareness with the campaigning mindset of how all capabilities available to Marines can fit into and support a larger competition strategy.
[01:24:02] It should improve knowledge of openness to the interests of potential and existing allies and partners. The outcome we seek from education is to increase the ability of Marines to envision greater possibilities and competition.
[01:24:18] Next section talent management our doxion of maneuver warfare places a premium on individual judgment and action.
[01:24:26] Wait a second, we talk about the Marine Corps is never just fallen orders. No, we place a premium on individual judgment and action, which also means we recognize all Marines of a given grade and occupational specialty are not interchangeable.
[01:24:41] They should be assigned to billet based on specific ability and temperament. This expression of talent management found in war fighting applies equally as well to competing. People have different strengths and weaknesses.
[01:24:55] The organizations that compete most effectively place their people in position to use their strengths.
[01:25:02] Now, this is something we get asked to quite a bit and you know what I wrote about leadership strategy and tactics. Hey, if I've got if Dave is really good at at at sales and he's not that great at administrative duties.
[01:25:18] What should I do with it?
[01:25:20] Well, I'll tell you what you put him in sales. That's when he's good at let him go do it now does that mean you let him just ignore the administrative part and he never has to touch paperwork and we hire some it. No, no, no, no, we want to strengthen his weaknesses, but we want to utilize and capitalize on his strengths.
[01:25:36] We also coach their people on the development of their strengths and link their use to the organizations goals. Some people excel at planning and creating new designs for operations and organizations others excel at taking a blueprint and then optimizing it so it works as well as possible.
[01:25:50] If you have the ability to do all these things with equal skill to compete at peak effectiveness, marine leaders need to measure the talents of the people they lead and then match these skills to the duties they perform organizations that do this well and for a sustained period.
[01:26:04] Also have a sustained competitive advantage they maximize the performance of their people over time.
[01:26:11] That answers a lot of questions if you're in a leadership position. You find someone that's good at something let him do it.
[01:26:22] Force planning.
[01:26:24] Force planning which includes the functions of design development and management of the force for the Marine Corps must balance utility at many points on the competition continuum with building a force that is a functional tool for the joint force to use in winning battles.
[01:26:39] The output of this complex undertaking must serve the needs of competing generally and of war fighting in particular realizing that they both exist on the same continuum and that they are interrelated shapes shapes are overall approach to this planning. So we could take the Marine Corps and if we only wanted them to be good at war fighting, we would do things differently.
[01:27:08] We would change entire, entire portions of the way we raise Marines.
[01:27:18] We would get rid of certain parts of the table.
[01:27:21] What are you talking about?
[01:27:23] We need to know marksmanship, we need to cover moving.
[01:27:25] That's what we need to do.
[01:27:27] We need to be awesome at our tactics.
[01:27:29] We need to know how to win.
[01:27:30] We know how to interact with each other.
[01:27:32] Catch people in the combined arms and level. That's what we're going to focus on.
[01:27:34] There's a whole other bunch of stuff that we focus on.
[01:27:37] Well, that the Marine Corps focuses on.
[01:27:40] And what they're saying here is you have to find that balance.
[01:27:43] You've got to be able to compete, which means we've got to be able to go out and shake hands and make friends and build relationships.
[01:27:50] And we've got to be able to fight.
[01:27:53] We've got to find out we've got to balance those two and we've got to realize that they're both interrelated.
[01:27:59] So this happens with companies where companies, hey, we've got to make money.
[01:28:07] We've got to make money. That's great. Guess what else we have to do?
[01:28:10] We have to maintain our reputation.
[01:28:12] Because we can make a ton of money and blow our reputation out the door.
[01:28:16] Or we can have a great reputation and now we're going bankrupt.
[01:28:21] So what do we need to do?
[01:28:23] We need to find balance on these two things.
[01:28:26] To do this successfully, the output of our force planning should present a dilemma to our potential competitors and defeat their plans against us.
[01:28:35] The way we combine our organization, the way we combine our organization, doctrine training and equipment should produce a competitive advantage or multiple advantages.
[01:28:42] The options we choose within each of these elements affects our competitiveness over time.
[01:28:48] For example, if we enhance the training for equipment mechanics so that they can operate for extended periods without external support,
[01:28:55] then we also enhance our ability to operate in austere environments for a long period of time.
[01:28:59] The output of force planning is the sum of choices made inside each of these elements.
[01:29:06] These choices must be guided by the goal of establishing competitive advantages, which are useful for combat, and also useful for competition.
[01:29:23] Having that goal, when you make sure that you're sticking with your goal, you have to be guided.
[01:29:31] Your choices are guided by the goal of establishing these competitive advantages.
[01:29:34] That's what you're making our choices based on.
[01:29:36] Is this going to give us a competitive advantage or not?
[01:29:39] That's a very good way of simplifying your decision making process.
[01:29:43] How is this going to give us a competitive advantage?
[01:29:46] If it's not, why are we doing it?
[01:29:49] That competitive advantage is something you have to have to be successful, and when you're making the connection to business,
[01:29:55] especially when you're just looking at the most basic level of what consumers want.
[01:30:01] They've got a bunch of options.
[01:30:03] They can get the product of the thing you make usually from a whole bunch of different companies.
[01:30:08] The competitive advantage is how you can deliver it to what they want better than everybody else.
[01:30:13] If what you're doing isn't contributing to that, that I think over time,
[01:30:18] we've talked about complacency, the other things, the inability to recognize that you have to continue to contribute to that competitive advantage.
[01:30:25] That doesn't stay.
[01:30:26] If you have that competitive advantage, now your competitors aren't trying to erode that and take that away from you.
[01:30:31] Even the idea that everything you're doing has to be designed to contribute to either building or sustaining that advantage.
[01:30:39] Or you're going to go away.
[01:30:41] You will be out maneuvered by your competition.
[01:30:44] I love that even in the Marine Corps they're saying it's useful for combat and competition.
[01:30:50] Those are two different things and we're telling the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps telling Marines.
[01:30:54] Those are two different things.
[01:30:56] Which is interesting because they're also saying throughout this entire book that those are on the same continuum.
[01:31:03] So I'm going to do something that's going to be useful at multiple locations on that continuum.
[01:31:12] Because if all we cared about is you being good at combat, we would raise Marines just like you said in a totally different way.
[01:31:17] And we would forgive a whole bunch of things that happen like that's okay.
[01:31:20] He can do all those crazy things because when we go to war, we're going to unleash that guy.
[01:31:24] And we know that's not enough.
[01:31:27] You can't do that for a whole bunch of different reasons.
[01:31:30] And the recognition that hey combat is combat is going to happen.
[01:31:34] I mean, certainly in this image, you're going to see some combat.
[01:31:36] But that might be fleeting.
[01:31:38] You might get one opportunity, a one good deployment, but the competition piece and they've said it over.
[01:31:44] That is happening all the time.
[01:31:46] It'll hold a bunch of different ways.
[01:31:51] Continuing on, if we are to fully prepare, then Marines need to also consider the merits and challenges of asymmetry in competition.
[01:31:59] Truly asymmetric asymmetric competition actions or competitive actions can impose costs on the rival.
[01:32:06] For example, the original assault breaker concept developed in the 1970s and 1980s was an asymmetric response to the Soviet advantage in armor and number.
[01:32:16] So in Europe in the 70s, they had this massive, the the the Soviet block had more armor than we did.
[01:32:23] And if they attacked it was their armor versus NATO armor, we they had the numbers.
[01:32:28] So they came up with this this plan, which was, hey, as soon as something breaks out.
[01:32:34] We're going to attack deep behind enemy lines with long range weapons missiles to to take out all those extra tanks that they have.
[01:32:46] So that was that was something that we that we came up with to to negate their competitive advantage.
[01:32:52] That that will here.
[01:32:54] It says improved sensors with precision munitions to negate the Soviet advantages.
[01:32:58] So I guess I could have just read it.
[01:33:00] The execution of force planning starts a cycle that begins putting forth the theory about how we can contribute to the nation strategic competitions throughout the continuum building capabilities to bring theory to reality and then testing the capabilities to exercises and operations.
[01:33:21] So again, now they've gone from guessing.
[01:33:24] Well, I'm going from guessing to hypothesis now it's putting forth the theory right my theory is because that's another word for guess it's another nice word for I'm going to take a guess my theory is.
[01:33:34] And then you take those and you take those theories and you put them to the test just like a hypothesis in exercises and operations.
[01:33:41] Let's see how they work.
[01:33:42] Other political actors observe this theory unfold and adapt themselves so they can compete more effectively against it.
[01:33:48] That's what's going to happen.
[01:33:50] Our observations of these adaptations starts the cycle once again.
[01:33:55] Force planning then is a continual effort to stay ahead of potential adversaries.
[01:34:01] Thus we see that force planning itself is a competitive act and the Marine Corps must retain the ability to reconfigure the force when necessary to sustain its competitive advantage or develop new ones.
[01:34:12] This ability starts with the mental flexibility that comes from humility and the disciplined practice of questioning assumptions.
[01:34:25] Tattoo that on your forehead.
[01:34:28] Well, maybe on your forearm so you can see it.
[01:34:31] We don't want to have to look in the mirror.
[01:34:33] This ability that we should be constantly checking and seeing where we're at and seeing what adaptations the enemy is making.
[01:34:42] The competitors are making and if we don't have mental flexibility.
[01:34:47] We're wrong and if we don't have humility we're wrong and if we don't have discipline we're wrong.
[01:34:53] I think these people listen to the podcast.
[01:34:55] That's what I'm thinking.
[01:34:56] I'm thinking that the authors listen to the podcast.
[01:34:59] Let us know.
[01:35:01] Our awareness of the competition continuum and its existence both above and below the threshold of violence.
[01:35:07] Brawls are view on force planning.
[01:35:09] So the better you understand that.
[01:35:11] The better you understand that the the game is much bigger than hey we're going to fight you.
[01:35:17] With violence the game is much bigger than that.
[01:35:20] Our philosophy is that we can as we have done in the past prepare Marines to succeed in competition without sacrificing the Marine Corps's ability to prevail in battle.
[01:35:30] Our understanding of ourselves must include how the Marine Corps fits into the complex adaptive system that is the naval service and the joint force.
[01:35:44] We know that the Marine Corps is operated on both sides of the violence threshold and expect this to continue into the future.
[01:35:50] However, our campaigning mindset should lead us to explore thoroughly how the Marine Corps can contribute to preventing war.
[01:35:57] We can look at a little cyops.
[01:36:00] How the Marine Corps contributes to preventing war by regularly operating below the violence threshold even as Marines are ready to operate above it when required.
[01:36:09] I had some had a note here and I don't even know what it meant.
[01:36:14] When I talked about preparing the Marine's to succeed in competition without sacrificing the Marine Corps's ability to prevail in battle.
[01:36:22] I have in parentheses harder than you think.
[01:36:28] Oh and then I have as an example I have college sports teams.
[01:36:33] Okay, so now it makes sense.
[01:36:35] The example I thought of as if you've got a college sports team.
[01:36:39] If the simple example would be hey if the only thing we want these athletes to do is play football.
[01:36:46] Everything's out of the table.
[01:36:49] Well, it gives you a lot of capability on the football field, but let's face it.
[01:36:53] No one has anything other than football when they're done.
[01:36:56] So you have to balance it.
[01:36:58] It's an example of echo Charles.
[01:37:00] Hey, he's not doing well in geometry class.
[01:37:03] He's got a D. We need to bench him.
[01:37:06] Well, what if he's our best player?
[01:37:09] We don't want to bench him, but we have to balance it.
[01:37:15] Now on to the conclusion.
[01:37:20] The Marine Corps is one of the nation's tools for the strategic competition that is the normal state of events in international relations.
[01:37:29] And by the way, man.
[01:37:33] As you watch the news, as you read the news, which I recommend.
[01:37:41] If you think about the international news and you pay attention to the competitions that are going on,
[01:37:49] it all this makes a lot more sense when you see what China's doing.
[01:37:54] When you see what I ran's doing.
[01:37:56] When you see what's going on in Syria, when you see what's going on in the Middle East, when you see what's going on in Europe,
[01:38:02] when you see what you start to think about all those things from a more holistic viewpoint and you overlay the fact that it's one big competition which looks.
[01:38:10] That's the way it is. Look at what Russia does.
[01:38:16] Look at what Russia does.
[01:38:18] See, they are competing.
[01:38:22] They are competing.
[01:38:23] And not only that, sometimes echo Charles, people around Russia, like people other than Russia, they're out playing flag football.
[01:38:37] And Russia is playing tackle.
[01:38:40] You know what I'm saying?
[01:38:42] There, someone else is playing Tai Chi, and they're playing combat sombo.
[01:38:51] And the Tai Chi people are thinking like, oh, you know, and also they get punched in the face.
[01:38:56] Or they're in a bad position.
[01:38:57] More worse, they're in a bad position. They don't even know it.
[01:39:00] They don't know the capability that that sombo practitioner has.
[01:39:04] So you've got to pay attention that. You've got to start singing that these little maneuvers, these little maneuvers that these other nation states make. They're not.
[01:39:11] I can't even believe I'm having to say this right now.
[01:39:14] But you can watch things happen.
[01:39:16] And the way people respond to it, it's almost as if it's just by chance that this other nation state is making this maneuver.
[01:39:27] And throughout this book, and I wish I would have, should have been doing this all along,
[01:39:32] you can find examples of where this is happening.
[01:39:35] Oh, there's a boundary getting stretched. Oh, there's a salami slice.
[01:39:39] Like all these things are going on. Oh, there's a, there's a below the violence threshold maneuver.
[01:39:45] And they're going to back off right before there's a response coming. This is what's happening all the time.
[01:39:53] There's a competition piece inside that too that I think about is, we were talking earlier about hierarchy.
[01:40:00] Everybody kind of knows the hierarchy too. Everybody kind of knows where we are in the hierarchy.
[01:40:07] And what, what that should tell us is that they know, which is even more reason for them to be competing all the time,
[01:40:17] because they know where they sit and they don't like being there.
[01:40:21] They don't like being there. And that is true for nation states.
[01:40:25] And that shop that you're running on that street corner. If the hierarchy is known, which it almost always is,
[01:40:32] the other people in the hierarchy that are underneath you don't like that.
[01:40:37] They also know that they can't go toe to toe with you. They can't do the brute force method and just run you out.
[01:40:42] So they got out maneuvering you and how compete you with little tiny moves here and there.
[01:40:46] And when you were talking about the idea of, I can't believe I have to say this is the complacent that comes from being at the top of your food chain,
[01:40:54] your food chain, whatever it is, everybody else knows it's going on. And they're all trying to out maneuver you.
[01:41:01] So you shouldn't be surprised by any of it. That's what they're doing. You were saying earlier,
[01:41:06] you're out on the weekends going to the club. They're home, sharpening their knives.
[01:41:11] And that's what they're supposed to be doing.
[01:41:13] And actually, sometimes they're not even sharpening their knives.
[01:41:17] What they're doing is they've got a bar out in town that they're working with.
[01:41:24] That's giving free drinks for you.
[01:41:28] And so even though they can only sharpen their knife so much, so what are they going to do? They're going to weaken you.
[01:41:35] You got to be on the watch for that.
[01:41:37] You've ever seen the movie training day?
[01:41:39] Yes.
[01:41:41] Excellent film, by the way.
[01:41:43] That's what that whole movie was about, essentially.
[01:41:47] So he was trying to, you know, he basically had this new recruit who do anything he wanted to make the team or whatever.
[01:41:53] So we set him up to have to do everything yet, like he asked him to do.
[01:41:58] It started with making a smoke that we eat or whatever.
[01:42:01] If you are some movie, you'll understand.
[01:42:03] And even says in one of the pivotal parts, when he's manipulating him, he says, hey, it's chess.
[01:42:08] It's not checkers.
[01:42:09] So like, yeah, if you don't know you're in a competition or whatever, essentially the explanation.
[01:42:15] Where you're just like, oh, yeah, today we're just sort of cruising, where, and actually you're example of like, okay, if you know where you are in the hierarchy,
[01:42:23] or hierarchy, and you're, let's say you're high, and you have all these challenges, people or entities, right?
[01:42:30] You're kind of cruising, and they know they can't go to the tooth you without you, how you put it.
[01:42:36] But their move can be like 10 years down the road, and they're plotting for that 10 years, they're plotting for that move, or that series of moves, you know.
[01:42:46] So we got Denzel plays the bad cop essentially.
[01:42:49] Yeah, Lanzo.
[01:42:50] Who plays the other one?
[01:42:52] Jake is played by Ethan Hawke.
[01:42:55] Okay, so, and that's the first escalation is smoke and pot.
[01:43:02] Oh, the first escalation starts in the beginning, so like right, the way he talks to him in the beginning, where you could tell this guy, Jake is like, he just wants to make the team, he wants to do everything.
[01:43:12] So it starts without eating.
[01:43:13] By the way, is that whole movie take place in one day?
[01:43:16] Yeah, or is that just the name of it?
[01:43:17] Oh, that's all one day.
[01:43:18] Yeah, yeah.
[01:43:18] Because I was going to say what's interesting about that is, if Ethan Hawke, Jake, wait, Jake, wait, hey, hey, hey.
[01:43:27] If he would have gotten a brief prior to that day starting, that there was a competition happening, and there was maneuvers that were about to be made.
[01:43:35] Yeah.
[01:43:37] He wouldn't have, you know, if he knows that this guy is maneuvering, it's like, hey, you need to smoke this week.
[01:43:43] No, no, that's not happening because to me, once he got him to do that, and I don't know, I don't remember the movie, that's almost checkmate, right?
[01:43:50] That's almost checkmate, like, hey, dude, well, I'll get you, you need to get pissed tested, and now you're out of the force, and now you're in trouble,
[01:43:56] now you got a bad reputation, or, not even a bad reputation, you got a, what's, what's an RE4 code in the military where you're not allowed to get a federal job anymore, but you got a bad thing happening, you got a dishonorable discharge.
[01:44:08] That's a checkmate move, almost out of the gate.
[01:44:12] It's literally how it played out because that was like one of the first major moves.
[01:44:16] And it didn't come into play until later when he was like, hey, kill that guy.
[01:44:19] But if he, if he would have been aware of the competition that was happening,
[01:44:25] he would have known, hey man, this is not a good move, hey, I'm not doing that, and that's totally, actually would have flipped, almost flipped the checkmate.
[01:44:34] Oh, deal, the whole deal is flipped, but you're not aware of it, you get a lower than, well, maybe, I mean, obviously it was a movie, so,
[01:44:44] there was, he always had it, you ever put out that qualifier before, no, you just treat movies like that reality.
[01:44:51] He did in there, I mean, you're right, obviously, but in that particular movie, he had him by the, he had him by the ball's the whole time,
[01:45:00] because Jay Quate went into a thing, he wants to make the team, he's even, he's even beyond not knowing that he's competing.
[01:45:08] He's in like the, he's in the, beyond opposite direction where he's thinking that he wants to like prove and be, be a part of the team, you know,
[01:45:19] the opposite of competing, exact opposite, and it's funny you say that two words like, oh, that was checkmate, where he was like,
[01:45:28] one that came up when he's like, hey, kill the guy, he's like, not gonna do it, he's like, in fact, you know what, I'm tired of this whole thing,
[01:45:33] I'm turning you guys in, he's like, yeah, go ahead, but what's gonna happen when they pull your blood, you've been smoking weed and math all day or not math, it was like PCP or whatever,
[01:45:42] all day having you and he's like looking at him, you can see the wheel, you're getting a smoke PCP or is it like intertwined in the pot?
[01:45:48] Yeah, exactly right. So it was weed, so he made them smoke the weed and then after he smoked it he was like, dang, I didn't know you smoke BCP, he's like, you did, I haven't, but you have now, you know,
[01:45:58] like that kind of like, like, did Denzel's character smoke weed as well?
[01:46:02] No, he made him, he put a gun to it. Yeah, he was like, hey, and the way he crashed, have he seen somebody do?
[01:46:08] The way he rationalized it was like, hey, if you refuse weed in an undercover situation, they're just gonna kill you.
[01:46:15] So you gotta be ready to do this kind of stuff. And he's like, oh no, he's like, I don't want you on my team.
[01:46:21] Gun do is out on my team, you know, we put that gun. Do is head? Yeah, just as like a, like a demonstration.
[01:46:27] Well, like what if it was like this? Exactly right. If we were on the street, you'd be dead right now, like that kind of stuff, you know?
[01:46:32] So it's kind of like, he learned, it's almost like he'd Jake felt like he was learning this big, huge impactful lesson at that time, you know?
[01:46:39] Where he's like, yeah, you gotta kind of, get to push it far sometimes, you know, to throw them out.
[01:46:46] Yeah, kind of. Or did he brow beat him? He brow beat him, kind of both.
[01:46:51] He actually, the whole movie is him doing one or the other, is weird.
[01:46:54] It's a weird, it's a weird, a mini-pulation thing. Yeah, and finally when he was tired of it, he was like, I'm not doing this. He was like, oh yeah, but you've been smoking PCP all day.
[01:47:01] So you kind of got a, and all my guys were in on it, they're all gonna say the same thing and he's like, and he kind of has to do it.
[01:47:08] Then soon, like right after he's like, hey, I know it's crazy, I know, but this how it is, you know, we gotta be wolf.
[01:47:15] Wait, does that come up?
[01:47:16] Sparrow there, doesn't come up? No.
[01:47:19] Uh, since we're talking about training day, I have a small request, you may or may not comply, but let's face it.
[01:47:27] When you give me the, okay, it sounds a lot like the Zell Washington, that's here.
[01:47:33] I'm not gonna do it, but that's exactly where I got it from. No, I know that, because even though I don't know that movie very well,
[01:47:39] Yeah, there was a little, if I get a little overly hostile with you, kind of one of your defensive mechanisms is to throw that.
[01:47:49] Okay, back at me.
[01:47:51] They broke there was a tear it.
[01:47:52] There was a time in training day, in the beginning, he meets a metadiner, and he's like, oh, the guy Jake, he's trying to make small talk, you know, it's awkward and a lot of,
[01:48:02] a lot of, he's reading the newspaper, and he's like, not talking to him, it's awkward.
[01:48:08] So Jake keeps trying to make small talk, he's like, hey, shut up, let me read my paper.
[01:48:13] Jake's like, oh, awkward.
[01:48:15] So he can't help himself. He has to say something again, just to fight the awkwardness, and then he's like, put it down the paper. He's like, hey, tell me a story.
[01:48:22] He's like, what are you talking about? He's like, but you want, I read the newspaper for the stories or blah, blah, blah, he says it's like, so you gotta tell me a story.
[01:48:29] So they start telling the story and then, in the part when he's like, oh, yeah, I'm with this, my training officer, she was a girl or whatever.
[01:48:36] He's like, oh, it's a girl training officer. Oh, man, that's, he's like, yeah, he's like, oh, right, all right, all right, all right.
[01:48:44] So that's where it came from.
[01:48:46] Audit, you use it in different contexts, but yes, got it from. Thank you.
[01:48:50] Talk for that.
[01:48:51] It always makes me smile. If I can push you to the point where you throw that at me, I know I did my job for the day.
[01:48:58] The, the manipulation, you gotta be on the lookout for it. You gotta be on the lookout because if you're not competing all the time, if you don't recognize that you're competing, that's when you're going to get caught.
[01:49:13] And you should never, never, ever give that kind of leverage to another human being. Over you.
[01:49:21] Not to go back to training day too much, but there's, there's smoking. We part when he realized it when he was like, hey, it's fucking busy.
[01:49:30] He all day, haven't you? And he's like, he looked at me, he's like, you've been planning this all day. There he goes. I've been planning it all week.
[01:49:37] So you'm saying, no, that's the demonstration. Hey, you're always competing last week. We didn't even meet each other. I was already out still competing.
[01:49:44] I didn't look at you now. I'd lessen their everywhere. I kind of forgot about that. I'm just retracing myself to the last four years and trying to make sure I know what's actually going on here.
[01:49:59] to the book for the conclusion as professionals
[01:50:00] Marines acknowledge this condition and prepare themselves
[01:50:03] and the Marine Corps to succeed in this struggle.
[01:50:05] Adopting a campaigning mindset helps us do this
[01:50:08] effectively as it aids us in visualizing the long timelines
[01:50:12] that often span years and decades.
[01:50:18] This influences the type of education they say.
[01:50:21] I mean, it's so crazy to not think about years and decades.
[01:50:26] That's if you're not thinking in years and decades,
[01:50:31] you're going to have some issues.
[01:50:33] Yeah, I'm proud of not a thinking years and
[01:50:36] I mean, whatever.
[01:50:37] Typically, we don't think in years and decades.
[01:50:40] Typically, I mean, we're for a handful of things, but that's it.
[01:50:45] And those handful things, what I'm talking about.
[01:50:47] Yeah, this is important.
[01:50:48] This influences the type of education they seek to prepare them
[01:50:51] for the continual innovation that will be required to sustain
[01:50:54] competitive advantage and create new ones over the course
[01:50:57] of long-term campaign.
[01:50:58] It also influences their decision.
[01:50:59] They're thinking on talent management because the most
[01:51:02] competitive organizations are the ones that get the most
[01:51:04] from their people by placing them in positions to use their
[01:51:07] strengths on a regular basis.
[01:51:08] All of this preparation leads to the type of agile force
[01:51:11] planning needed in long-term competition, resulting in a succession,
[01:51:15] a succession of force planning that outcomes,
[01:51:20] planning outcomes that achieve and then sustain competitive
[01:51:23] advantage advantages in the military element of national power.
[01:51:26] That's the conclusion there of chapter three, almost two hours
[01:51:32] deep.
[01:51:32] So a good place to stop for now, because I don't even want to crack
[01:51:38] open chapter four yet too much for one night.
[01:51:44] So we're always in competition.
[01:51:48] We should be in strategic competition.
[01:51:51] And all of this chapter three, we are preparing for competition.
[01:51:56] Echo Charles.
[01:51:58] Here comes the tee up.
[01:52:00] Here comes the softball coming your way.
[01:52:01] Let's see if you can knock it out of the park.
[01:52:03] In speaking of preparing for competitions,
[01:52:06] do you have any suggestions that will help us stay prepared?
[01:52:09] Yeah, it takes up limits.
[01:52:10] And here's why straight to it.
[01:52:13] Yep, here's why.
[01:52:14] So you know, okay, so we'll start with the joint stuff as we always
[01:52:17] do this as way.
[01:52:18] So a lot of times, I'm one of these people,
[01:52:20] but I don't have joint problems, right?
[01:52:23] Until you do, seems saying.
[01:52:25] So that time, if we're not thinking that,
[01:52:28] that if we're not considering the fact that we might have
[01:52:30] these issues with joints, we're lifting weights,
[01:52:32] we're doing the jujuts.
[01:52:34] And we're not anticipating the potential for joint problems.
[01:52:37] We're not going to be competing in that way,
[01:52:40] or aware of that competition.
[01:52:42] Okay.
[01:52:43] We also need to be strategic in the way that we're thinking.
[01:52:46] Because we are putting a wear and tear,
[01:52:48] it might not hurt you right now,
[01:52:50] but guess what you're doing in two years, three years, five years.
[01:52:53] You want to keep those things maintained in the Navy,
[01:52:57] in the Marine Corps that we know about.
[01:52:58] I'm sure it's this way in the Army near for us.
[01:53:00] Well, you're going to follow these maintenance protocols.
[01:53:04] And they're going to help when you need that element,
[01:53:07] when you need that piece of equipment,
[01:53:08] when you need that shoulder, that elbow, that knee.
[01:53:13] And look, you need, let's face it.
[01:53:15] It could already come with a kind of genetic disadvantage.
[01:53:18] You might have knees that are skinny.
[01:53:20] They need all the help they can get.
[01:53:24] Oh, yeah.
[01:53:25] And if that's the case.
[01:53:28] Hey, you get these supplements.
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[01:55:16] What do you drink?
[01:55:16] What do you have tonight, Dave?
[01:55:17] You went too deep and so did I.
[01:55:19] We started recording late.
[01:55:20] We both kind of like, it was a early morning.
[01:55:23] I know that.
[01:55:24] Well, flavors did we go?
[01:55:25] I went afterburn orange with a deck savage.
[01:55:27] Follow up.
[01:55:28] I went, jacer, deck savage, jacer.
[01:55:31] I went, I went, I went,
[01:55:33] I went, jockel Palmer.
[01:55:34] And then I went sour apple sniper, JP, appreciate it.
[01:55:40] That's what I went.
[01:55:41] So I went, we both went back to back, back to back, back to back.
[01:55:45] I don't do that very often.
[01:55:46] No, I was thinking too.
[01:55:47] I don't usually start hitting this, this late at night.
[01:55:49] But I know it's an idea.
[01:55:51] I have work to do when I get home too.
[01:55:52] So that's a positive thing.
[01:55:54] You can get it.
[01:55:55] You can also get the stuff at the vitamin shop.
[01:55:57] So hit those up or get the free shipping.
[01:56:01] There you go.
[01:56:03] It's true.
[01:56:04] Also at originmane.com, this week, you can get stuff as well.
[01:56:07] Yeah.
[01:56:08] It's a lot of other cool stuff at origin.
[01:56:10] Originmane.com.
[01:56:11] All American made stuff by the way.
[01:56:14] The boots, jeans, jiu-jitsu stuff.
[01:56:17] Do you ever watch Pete?
[01:56:18] Do you ever watch Pete?
[01:56:20] Do you ever watch the origin USA Instagram story?
[01:56:24] Yes.
[01:56:26] So the other day Pete Roberts.
[01:56:28] Sure.
[01:56:29] He made a story about how he was all fired up because he bought.
[01:56:34] We bought originusa.com.
[01:56:38] Okay.
[01:56:39] The domain name.
[01:56:40] The domain name.
[01:56:41] And he was all fired up.
[01:56:42] And he was, he spent 50 grand on that.
[01:56:48] And he's all fired up.
[01:56:49] I don't know if you do.
[01:56:50] Do you know anything about buying what's called the URL?
[01:56:53] Do you know anything about this?
[01:56:54] Yes.
[01:56:55] So if it's a kind of a good word, they can be very, very expensive.
[01:57:02] IE for originusa 50 grand.
[01:57:07] $50,000.
[01:57:08] And he's on there.
[01:57:09] And he's like, you know, a couple of years ago, I wouldn't even dreamt of spending 50
[01:57:13] grand for this.
[01:57:14] But this is where we're going.
[01:57:15] We need this new URL.
[01:57:17] So we're doing it.
[01:57:18] We're executing.
[01:57:20] And I didn't, I didn't have time because I saw the story.
[01:57:25] We, me, also bought another domain name, which will be a big one.
[01:57:32] We up soon.
[01:57:34] And people, you could argue would say this is even more valuable name URL.
[01:57:41] I bought jaco.com.
[01:57:46] Jaco.com.
[01:57:47] And I almost posted this because what I was going to say, and this is the true story,
[01:57:52] I bought jaco.com.
[01:57:54] How much do you think I paid for it?
[01:57:55] Originusa costs 50 grand.
[01:57:57] Dave, what do you think?
[01:57:58] How much do you think I paid for?
[01:57:59] I think it's unfair for me to answer this question.
[01:58:01] So you already know the answer.
[01:58:02] It makes you so you can get it.
[01:58:03] So if you want to, so I got jaco.com for $1.
[01:58:09] Now awesome guy owned it.
[01:58:11] And he's a trooper.
[01:58:12] He's in the game.
[01:58:13] And he just reached out to Jamie and said, hey, I own jaco.
[01:58:17] And we get all kinds of things.
[01:58:18] We get all kinds of Jamie for us.
[01:58:19] He said, hey, what do we do?
[01:58:20] Hey, what do we do?
[01:58:21] I see one title to an email.
[01:58:23] It says jaco.com.
[01:58:24] And I opened it up.
[01:58:26] And Jamie's like, hey, do you want me to do anything with this?
[01:58:28] And he wants to sell me jaco.com for $1. And he also came out here with his wife.
[01:58:31] We had a cool time.
[01:58:32] We hung out.
[01:58:33] But yeah, so I was going to post that Pete, the business man, Pete the negotiator.
[01:58:38] I was going to say, hey, my business partner, Pete, great job negotiating the price to $50,000.
[01:58:45] Meanwhile, I got jaco.com for $1.
[01:58:49] You know what that is right there?
[01:58:51] Come, competition.
[01:58:53] I beat you, Pete.
[01:58:54] Yes, sir.
[01:58:55] That's a below market price.
[01:58:57] So yeah, for sure.
[01:58:58] I was super cool.
[01:58:59] So that should be up soon, jaco.com.
[01:59:03] And yes, I won that competition, Pete.
[01:59:04] Cool.
[01:59:05] So urgent went from Maine to straight up USA.
[01:59:07] Expanding.
[01:59:08] It's not there yet.
[01:59:09] Right now, go to the job.
[01:59:10] But you jaco fuel.
[01:59:11] Oh, I also bought jaco fuel.
[01:59:14] I think I bought that one.
[01:59:15] Did you buy that one?
[01:59:16] What'd you pay for?
[01:59:17] $9.
[01:59:18] 11.
[01:59:18] You got to love it.
[01:59:19] You know, market price.
[01:59:20] Market price.
[01:59:21] I don't know.
[01:59:22] I think you did buy that either way.
[01:59:23] Yes.
[01:59:24] It's true.
[01:59:25] Always come on.
[01:59:26] I bought that a long time ago.
[01:59:27] Yeah.
[01:59:28] Check.
[01:59:29] But yes, so yeah, origin Maine soon to be origin USA.
[01:59:32] Doc on this cool.
[01:59:33] It's where you can get Americans made stuff.
[01:59:36] Also, we have the store.
[01:59:39] JacoStore.com.
[01:59:40] I bought that one.
[01:59:41] By the way, back in the day.
[01:59:44] This is where you can get this money.
[01:59:45] Could you put that name here?
[01:59:46] Sure.
[01:59:47] I think you thought of that one.
[01:59:49] No, actually, I know I didn't.
[01:59:50] I like, I go, what is it?
[01:59:51] You like, jacoStore.
[01:59:52] I was like, oh, I guess we're going with that thing.
[01:59:54] Yes, it's not hard when to figure out.
[01:59:56] I remember two.
[01:59:57] We're like, yeah, jacoPotCats because it's simple or whatever.
[02:00:00] I was like, I had to online store.
[02:00:01] There you go, jacoStore.
[02:00:03] Oh, there.
[02:00:04] And, you know, it's yours.
[02:00:05] So, boom.
[02:00:06] Anyway, this is where you can get this money.
[02:00:07] You can see them shirts and hoodies and hats and, a lot of cool stuff there.
[02:00:12] There's a T-shirt club called the shirt locker.
[02:00:15] You want to tell us that it?
[02:00:18] I did.
[02:00:19] So, you know, you no longer have to say T-shirt club, which sounds super wack.
[02:00:23] You can just say we all swept the shirt locker.
[02:00:26] You can just say it in a much cooler way.
[02:00:29] Yeah.
[02:00:30] Okay.
[02:00:31] You can just exclude the lame things that sometimes get said.
[02:00:35] Yeah.
[02:00:36] My king shirt.
[02:00:37] Okay.
[02:00:38] Well, thank you for coaching me up there.
[02:00:42] Jaco, there's the shirt.
[02:00:44] Sure.
[02:00:45] Sure, locker where you can get a new cool T-shirt every month.
[02:00:49] High quality, high speed, low drag, as Jaco always says, either way.
[02:00:53] You've never actually heard me say.
[02:00:54] It's like, it's a good thing.
[02:00:55] You can go to check out, it's a good thing to check out.
[02:00:58] So, hey, man, if you think that's cool going to do that, it's that.
[02:01:00] Chocolate store, so like I said.
[02:01:03] You didn't mention the fact that at origin mained.com, you can also get jeans.
[02:01:06] You can get boots.
[02:01:07] Did you?
[02:01:08] Yeah.
[02:01:09] Dave, did you say that?
[02:01:10] Dude, this week can be going to for two years.
[02:01:12] I have no recollection of you saying that.
[02:01:14] Okay.
[02:01:15] Well, there's jeans and boots and guess what they're American made.
[02:01:17] That was a bad.
[02:01:18] True.
[02:01:19] That's absolutely true.
[02:01:20] Hey, kid, so review the tape.
[02:01:22] No editing.
[02:01:23] This is going to sound like a dumb question from you.
[02:01:26] Yes, sir.
[02:01:27] Okay.
[02:01:28] Okay.
[02:01:29] Bear with me.
[02:01:30] So the origin boots are those good for snow.
[02:01:33] Yeah.
[02:01:34] I mean, I know what you're tracking, but like, yeah, so if you're snow.
[02:01:38] Yes, if you're out in your ins know, they're good.
[02:01:39] If you're going to go on a winter hike in the woods, they're not going to be optimal,
[02:01:44] because they don't have any insulation.
[02:01:45] Now, if you put on a pair of wool socks and maybe a little polypropylene socks underneath
[02:01:49] them, you might be pretty good to go.
[02:01:51] Plus if you add it a little, you know, waterproofing to it, you know, you got some oils.
[02:01:56] You can put in there.
[02:01:57] You'd be good to go.
[02:01:58] Go on it.
[02:01:59] But if you're going on a trip to the mountains where you're going to be, it's going
[02:02:04] to be called when you're walking around.
[02:02:05] You'll be good to go.
[02:02:06] No, almost stuff.
[02:02:07] Yeah.
[02:02:08] I figured that what I guess is not a dumb question, right?
[02:02:10] I thought it was a good question.
[02:02:11] Well, and they're in Maine.
[02:02:12] Yeah, norm on it would be a dumb question if you were from Maine.
[02:02:17] Being that you're from Hawaii, it's actually a totally legit question.
[02:02:20] Your environment has not taught you lessons that a new Englander would learn or someone
[02:02:25] from Michigan or Montana would learn.
[02:02:29] Why oming people wouldn't be asking me that question?
[02:02:32] No.
[02:02:33] So it's not common knowledge for people like us from the Ina.
[02:02:36] All right, cool.
[02:02:37] Boom.
[02:02:38] There it is.
[02:02:39] Also, subscribe to this podcast if you want and leave a review on your podcast player.
[02:02:46] Of choice.
[02:02:47] Yeah, and we also have, you can join the the Jocco Underground.
[02:02:51] Jocco Underground.com.
[02:02:52] There's some people are asking questions.
[02:02:54] Wait a second.
[02:02:56] What's happening?
[02:02:57] Yes.
[02:02:58] And I'm like, oh, I explained it.
[02:03:00] This podcast, Jocco podcast.
[02:03:02] The goal is to never change this.
[02:03:04] The goal is to never put this podcast behind a paywall.
[02:03:08] That's the goal.
[02:03:11] We want this to be free.
[02:03:14] And as long as that is humanly possible, it will be.
[02:03:17] And the only thing you will have to suffer through is this section that we're listening
[02:03:23] to right now.
[02:03:24] If you can bear with that, which you didn't even have to.
[02:03:26] In fact, I know that there's only four of you listening right now.
[02:03:30] If you can bear that, you can listen to this for free.
[02:03:32] And you can also just press stop and you didn't have to hear any of this crap.
[02:03:36] Thank you.
[02:03:37] But look, we also, we set this up as a contingency.
[02:03:41] So we have an alternative platform that we built.
[02:03:44] We don't want to have other sponsors.
[02:03:46] We don't have somebody cutting in when we're talking about the battle of the bulge
[02:03:50] to tell you about what kind of underwear you should use.
[02:03:54] We don't want that to happen.
[02:03:57] So if you want to help us out with that, you can go and you subscribe to the
[02:04:01] Underground.
[02:04:02] And in order to give you some benefit, a tangible benefit, we're recording another podcast
[02:04:08] called the Jocco Underground podcast.
[02:04:11] And we just kind of give some other information.
[02:04:14] They're a little bit shorter.
[02:04:15] They're just, they're just, it's a behind the scenes, some, some amplifying information
[02:04:22] about what we talk about, some of the where this podcast came from, how I thought of doing
[02:04:26] this, why we're doing this.
[02:04:27] So if you want, you can do other, you're going to jocco Underground.com.
[02:04:31] It's $8.18 a month, which is an important number.
[02:04:37] And look, we're not trying to prevent people from being able to get this information.
[02:04:42] If you can't afford that, and you still want to listen to the Jocco Underground podcast,
[02:04:47] it's cool.
[02:04:48] Send an email to assistance at jocco Underground.com.
[02:04:53] And we will hook you up and you will be able to listen to the Jocco Underground podcast.
[02:04:57] So we have that going on.
[02:04:59] And well, we also have, what else we have?
[02:05:02] We've got the unraveling, which actually Darrell and I are in, we are in deep, got
[02:05:08] a bunch of stuff that we will have coming you away from coming you away from the unraveling
[02:05:12] podcast.
[02:05:13] We have the Grounded podcast, which we need to, we need to do that and the Warrior Kid
[02:05:22] podcast.
[02:05:23] Again, I said this the other day, I owe a buck on January 31st and when that's done, my
[02:05:31] plan is to knock out some Warrior Kid podcast.
[02:05:34] We got a YouTube channel where Echo puts up all the videos of this podcast and other
[02:05:39] videos where he makes a bunch of stuff blow up using CGI because he thinks it's cool.
[02:05:46] It's 100% cool.
[02:05:48] Thank you.
[02:05:49] Well, that's just your opinion.
[02:05:52] We have an album called Psychological Warfare where I talk about overcoming moments of
[02:05:56] weakness.
[02:05:57] Flipside Canvas, Dakota Myers company, a bunch of cool stuff to hang on your wall, got a
[02:06:01] bunch of books, leadership strategy, and tactics field manual.
[02:06:07] Which I pull out to read quotes from all the time when I'm talking to clients.
[02:06:12] Oh yeah, that's a question.
[02:06:13] I heard about this here.
[02:06:15] Dave, all the time.
[02:06:20] All the time.
[02:06:21] So if you've got questions about what to actually do as a leader, get leadership strategy
[02:06:28] in tactics field manual.
[02:06:29] We also have the code, the evaluations, the protocols.
[02:06:31] We have discipline, equals freedom, field manual.
[02:06:33] There's a new version.
[02:06:34] We have way of the Warrior Kid for field manual.
[02:06:37] We also have way of the Warrior Kid 1, 2, and 3.
[02:06:39] We have about face by David Hackworth that I wrote the form for the new one.
[02:06:42] Mike in the Dragons, which a lot of people say is the best picture book ever.
[02:06:47] A lot of people saying that.
[02:06:50] Most people.
[02:06:51] Sure I'm saying that.
[02:06:54] We have a, and then of course, a tree ownership in the Dakota Leadership.
[02:06:58] We have Escelon Front, which is our leadership consultancy.
[02:07:01] Go to Escelonfront.com if you want help in your organization.
[02:07:04] We saw problems with leadership.
[02:07:07] EF online, which is online courses about leadership that you can bring your whole company
[02:07:12] through.
[02:07:13] They can do a method on pace.
[02:07:14] You can do it as a group.
[02:07:15] It's all kinds of ways to go through that program that will get your whole company, your
[02:07:19] whole team aligned and thinking the same way about leadership.
[02:07:25] We have, we have a live event that we do a few times a year.
[02:07:30] 2020, we didn't do any.
[02:07:32] Because there was a virus out there.
[02:07:36] 2021, we're reorganizing our dates.
[02:07:39] We're planning to do it.
[02:07:40] Go to extremotorship.com.
[02:07:41] If you want to come to that, EF Overwatch, we have leaders to place inside your company that
[02:07:46] have a military background that understand these principles that we talk about.
[02:07:50] And if you want to help service members active and retired, their families, gold star
[02:07:54] families, and check out Mark Lee's mom, mom, Lee.
[02:07:57] She's got a charity organization.
[02:07:59] If you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to americasmightywariors.org.
[02:08:07] And if the last two hours, you didn't get enough of my dictatorial diatribes, or you
[02:08:15] need more of Ecos bewildered bemoaning.
[02:08:21] Or Dave's fanatical phrasing, you can find us on the in a web on Twitter, on Instagram, which
[02:08:28] for those of you that only understand what Ecos says, he refers to that as the gram.
[02:08:35] And Facebook, Dave is at David Arborick, Ecos at Ecos and I am at Jockel Wink.
[02:08:39] And thanks to all the people in uniform worldwide doing what you have to do so we can do
[02:08:49] what we want to do in the same goes to our police and law enforcement, firefighters,
[02:08:53] and the eMT's dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all
[02:08:59] first responders.
[02:09:01] We thank you as well for what you do every day.
[02:09:04] And everyone else out there, competition is an enduring condition.
[02:09:12] It's always happening.
[02:09:13] It's always happening.
[02:09:17] And you need to be prepared.
[02:09:19] And you need to make sure you are competing for the strategic win for the long term win.
[02:09:26] So pay attention to what you are paying attention to.
[02:09:33] And then keep getting after it.
[02:09:37] And until next time, this is Dave and Eco and Jockel.
[02:09:42] Okay.