Jocko Podcast 259: When the Call Comes, You Go. w South Vietnamese Kingbee Pilot, Capt Nguyen Quy An

2020-12-10T07:41:33Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @jstrykermeyer 0:00:00 - Opening 0:16:38 - Captain An 1:55:58 - How to stay on THE PATH. 2:13:34 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

he said I'm working with your friend and he left he came working away and about 50 meters away he pulled out the notebook and stuff like something I don't know but one week later the station was made from longsaw to swim out and at the swim out there I slated for another week and one day they called they they announced on the radio that your people happen they know people prepare to have their family to pick you your people back home so that was it then you got out of the camp yeah very few roads and how long were you in this cage for with your son maybe a couple months and they tested but they said thanks for us to uh to a um sub-cham sub-cham you know the case you know in the num can there were a lot of mosquito not mosquito and every day we have only one you know they uh type of beer in the And I don't, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, what kind of, maybe is just one or nothing but family know me for... that Day lights, and it's certainly, this direction. No I we covered the major points there and you know just like that one time with the Marines need help here he comes he just went there under fire and so many times his kingbees got shot up. and then what happens then what do you start doing then we leave that to leave it right now it's after 75 you know after the one day they take you over to the South and as a light was visible you know the people who everything is a stamp foot stamp everything stamp and one month maybe each of them each people are the can buy maybe 100 grams of meat 100 grams of meat a month maybe on sometimes they don't And you must remember, uh, you know, going on a mission, getting your aircraft shot up and then going home to your wife and saying, hi, honey, I'm home. the bottle by this is me and every day only one one bottle of water for one day for only everything for months you're like that so the cage with barboy on the top and the mosquito at about five o'clock five p.m. we have to see the mosquito net if not a day just it is a swam mosquito it's like a bee and I've a couple months we've been more more to somewhere more to was it another prison another prison how long were you in total prison for and why did they eventually let you out or how did you get out eventually and how did you not qualify for that because at the total time I spent prison it's only two and half year well see need to dispense more time and prison you can you imagine that after all the service could have been and so I thought that maybe I would have I might be living Vietnam forever so I prepare for my what I'm I plan to what I'm going to do to lead but at that time the side of it means the first association is the the mayor of Masuoka he was the Air Force reticulano so this is an American Air Force retired in Masuoka and he was working with the San Jose he's now Vietnamese Air Force Association And just the similar, you know, the attitude, you know what you said, Con, or on earlier when I asked you, you know, what, what do you think about when you need to go back into a spot where two Kingbees have already shot down. And he saw the, he said that he, he saw the, uh, the frame, the line of frame, the row, he, and hit my, uh, chopper and my chopper, I spoke, you know, the front row, I spoke and he thought that I was not that. I mean, that opening that I read from this, like it's just epic, you know, to hear the relief from Watkins, who hears who it is, like, okay, now we got a chance. A lot of times I look at you because like, sometimes you'll have this look like, oh, let me, like, you remember something. and I still remember one time one of the guy who worked in the this week he wrote a bicycle to around the the the street near my house near my house I said that the face go people go to my face and my my my my son he was that he said 75 76 he was nine seven or nine I know of him he just grabbed the mask that runs to the mother so he can he can buy the the first one And I saw the, uh, trigger out, you know, the, you know, the round, the, the, the, the whole, the, the, the, uh, in front of the front line of them. Well, one time I was, uh, doing out with my, uh, the other prisoners to, uh, create up as a, uh, the camp. This is just talked about, uh, propaganda, uh, propaganda, uh, and the thing is that the people who, they, they, they want to, they want us to go to class every day. But this is like an opportunity for all of us to sort of, you know, capitalize on some of the cool t-shirt ideas that just fly in from time to time. and he's like, man, I'm kind of looking for a part that I'm job like you've got to go do some stuff. they, uh, at the, uh, and they told me that, uh, you keep, uh, um, okay. I was there for, um, uh, zoolite, I don't know, from, uh, zool, to, uh, August. no the FC this thing was right close what's that American award all the DSC got it got it got it or the DSF foreign cars got it and then make make it and just like in case just a cage just a case and the coba the tough with a mobile why how are you planning to escape what was the plan were you going to go by boat were you going to walk the other thing we said was my boat by boat And then what was it like when the, when the war started to kind of wind down for, you know, America leaving and the communist are going to take over. Yeah, like you want to, you know, and I just want to give you that opportunity. And then at the end, which kind of gives you an insight to like how he's thinking where he's like, yeah, And, uh, when I heard the, uh, announcement of a surrender from Zeno Loming, oh, my, uh, my tears just came out. and where would you find gold they like gold the time I was I got out in the dump can the police is not in the put it is in my pocket and found a ring golden ring and so we every time we had to pay and the first time we got cut and at a non-gun way south to come to south Uh, I think they, uh, they're going to shoot the right. And I'm to mention these guys in Vietnam, they're like have to go home at night, like till we'll say, hey, oh, cool. But, like, he, he was not that, and he said, oh, you still like, I see him, but don't let it in the wall.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 259 with me, Jockel Willink.
[00:00:05] The A1E's arrived just as the team started taking incoming mortar fire.
[00:00:09] Godwin quickly calculated the coordinates for the mortar's location and the information was passed on to Kavi
[00:00:16] who in turn related to the A1E's.
[00:00:18] A laconic whistling voice came back down the line.
[00:00:21] It's crispy critter time, so y'all keep your heads down.
[00:00:25] Within seconds the area in front of the team exploded into flame.
[00:00:29] The deadly napaam coating everything in its erupting path, flaming NVA soldiers ran briefly
[00:00:35] toward the team before falling to the ground and agonizing death throws.
[00:00:38] The hand grenades and ammunition they carried cooking off like firecrackers.
[00:00:43] Unfortunately, the elephant grass was also set on fire.
[00:00:47] The napaam had definitely slowed the NVA advance, but it had not stopped it.
[00:00:51] Kavi reported that extraction chopper were five minutes out and the team needed to move fast.
[00:00:59] Two gunships from the 7th Air Cav roared over the LZ.
[00:01:04] Watkins put out two bright orange marker panels and the gunships confirmed they had the team
[00:01:09] in sight.
[00:01:10] As they looped back to make their first strafing run, the gunships reported that a large enemy
[00:01:14] force was moving toward the LZ and they were going to attempt to discourage it.
[00:01:20] As they made their run pouring M60 machine gun fire and rockets into the enemy, RT lion
[00:01:26] could see the air filled with green tracers, hating the helicopters.
[00:01:30] They were taking a vicious beating, but they hung in there and kept pouring fire down on
[00:01:35] the NVA.
[00:01:36] It was an incredible show of raw guts and determination.
[00:01:40] Kavi came on the radio to say the gunships had taken casualties and were leaking fuel, oil,
[00:01:45] hydraulic fluid and just about everything else, so they were being forced to head home.
[00:01:49] But the extraction slicks were on station.
[00:01:53] RT lion looked around and could see its salvation coming toward it on its nose.
[00:01:59] Although they were flying at a good clip, it appeared as if they were moving at an agonizingly
[00:02:04] slow speed.
[00:02:06] As with the gunships before them, they were taking a horrendous amount of fire.
[00:02:11] One chopper was hit badly and began losing fuel.
[00:02:15] After a brief confabbed the rescue package suddenly broke off its approach and headed back
[00:02:20] the way it had come, leaving nothing but smoke and RT lion's hopes for rescue behind.
[00:02:27] When Watkins asked Kavi what this meant in terms of time on the ground, all heartness
[00:02:32] could do was say that he'd contact the S3 and ask for a new set of extraction assets
[00:02:37] ASAP.
[00:02:38] In the meantime, he promised to get more tactical air support over the team and do all he could
[00:02:42] to keep them alive.
[00:02:44] While Watkins appreciated the sentiments, this did not do much to raise his spirits.
[00:02:49] In his heart of hearts, he felt the team's position was precarious and likely to get
[00:02:54] much worse and quickly.
[00:02:57] The NVA had literally thousands of men it could throw at the team while the team had
[00:03:02] only so much ammunition and not much by way of cover.
[00:03:07] What he told his team members however was that there was going to be a slight delay and
[00:03:11] reminded them to keep vigilant and be ready for an attack.
[00:03:15] What he didn't have the heart to tell them was it could be hours before another rescue
[00:03:19] attempt was made.
[00:03:22] Their stay at Oscar A was far from over.
[00:03:24] One of the bruise suddenly signaled that NVA troops were crawling toward the team through
[00:03:28] the elephant grass.
[00:03:29] The news was passed on to Kavi who responded that he had two A1E standing by one loaded
[00:03:34] with CBUs and the other with rockets.
[00:03:37] Both aircraft had their deadly 20mm cannons locked and loaded.
[00:03:41] rockets told Kavi to bring in the CBUs fast as possible and delay it down as close to the
[00:03:45] team as they could get.
[00:03:47] In less than two minutes, the team saw an A1E appear in front of their position.
[00:03:52] It's 20mm cannons roaring away.
[00:03:55] It flew so low they could see the pilot turn his head to locate the team as he released
[00:04:00] his ordinance.
[00:04:02] Unfortunately some of the mini bombs exploded so close to RT Lyon that two bruise
[00:04:06] received light wounds.
[00:04:12] This was distressing but walk-ins consider it one of the acceptable prices a recontain paid
[00:04:14] to keep from being overrun by a superior force.
[00:04:19] As the A1E is departed a small group of NVA suddenly rose up out of the grass behind the
[00:04:24] team and charged them, AK-47's blazing on full automatic.
[00:04:28] DeSetta, his red communist star facing forward rose up and opened fire at near point
[00:04:34] blank range.
[00:04:35] The broo joined in as other groups of NVA popped up from the elephant grass and attempted
[00:04:39] assault after assault.
[00:04:41] What followed was several hours of deadly cat and mouse with the mouse hunkered down and
[00:04:46] it's a little hole and the NVA cat making poss-wipe after poss-wipe in attempt to claw
[00:04:51] it out or do it in.
[00:04:54] And ironic situation for the team to find itself in.
[00:04:59] While RT Lyon fended off attacks, Kavi directed air strike after air strike at the NVA
[00:05:04] troops, the storage area, the anti-aircraft guns and anything else he could draw a bead
[00:05:09] on.
[00:05:11] Throughout the day, primary and secondary explosions followed one another as the strikes
[00:05:15] found their mark.
[00:05:17] Whenever the team's fate, whatever the team's fate might turn out to be, the NVA were
[00:05:22] paying a hellacious price for messing with it.
[00:05:26] With daylight, ammunition and ideas running out, it was like a true message from God when
[00:05:32] Watkins heard Kavi report that South Vietnamese Air Force 219 Special Operations Squadron
[00:05:39] had one of its legendary King Bees and route.
[00:05:43] For once, Watkins spirits actually rose.
[00:05:48] Not that he didn't love the living daylights out of the 7th Air Cavs, but the Vietnamese
[00:05:52] of the 219th had time after time after time, proven themselves to be about the most daring,
[00:06:00] most imaginative, most aggressive, and all around finest pilots on the face of the globe.
[00:06:07] If RT Lyon had any chance of getting out of this hellhole, a King Beep pilot was the one
[00:06:12] who would find it and exploit it no matter how slight the chance was or how deadly the odds.
[00:06:20] That was simply what they were pledged and committed to doing day after day.
[00:06:26] Our good news followed when Kavi relayed that the lone King Be would be escorted by Marine
[00:06:31] gunships from 8ML367, a bad bunch of fires that went by the code named Scarface.
[00:06:39] Things were definitely going to rock and roll with them on station.
[00:06:42] Scarface enjoyed nothing more than kicking NVA but and taking names and then coming back
[00:06:46] around to kick more but just for good measure.
[00:06:50] On general principle and for the sheer fun of it.
[00:06:55] However Kavi splashed a healthy dose of cold water on walkins by reminding him it was very
[00:07:00] nearly dark and that despite all the bombs dropped, rockets fired and gun runs made.
[00:07:05] The enemy was still pumping out an enormous amount of fire and still moving forward.
[00:07:10] Pulling RT Lyon out of Oscar was going to be as difficult and dangerous in extraction
[00:07:15] as could be imagined.
[00:07:17] And they would have just one chance to pull it off.
[00:07:20] If they muffed it, RT Lyon would be spending the night and would most likely not see the
[00:07:25] next morning.
[00:07:27] So-boring information indeed but walkins did not want to discourage his team so he just
[00:07:31] gave them his best grin and said let's get ready to go.
[00:07:37] In the distance walkins could hear the distinctive sound of the old 9 piston, Sechorsky
[00:07:43] H34 King Beech shoving its way along a steady base note to the higher walk-wop of the
[00:07:49] Louise.
[00:07:50] He squinted into the twilight and when he could finally make out their dim silhouettes,
[00:07:55] he flashed his stroke through the barrel of an M79 grenade launcher so as to mask it from
[00:08:01] enemy sight.
[00:08:03] The helicopter's acknowledged having RT Lyon's mark and the Louise immediately divided
[00:08:09] and made a split run, one raking the team's forward perimeter with rockets and machine gun
[00:08:13] fire and the other working its rear.
[00:08:15] It was a beautiful show.
[00:08:18] The walkins yelled over the noise to blow all the claymores by setting off all the claymores
[00:08:22] at once he hoped to avoid having any uninvited NVA join the team.
[00:08:27] They went off in a deafening blast and blinding flash, the little mouse had roared.
[00:08:33] As the scar face duo looped around to make their second final run, they confirmed there
[00:08:38] were dozens of dead and dying NVA scattered around within feet of the bomb crater.
[00:08:43] Unfortunately they also saw more troops advancing.
[00:08:46] It was down to the short strokes.
[00:08:50] As the scar face gunships began their last pass, the king be tucked itself in behind
[00:08:55] them and came roaring on.
[00:08:58] Rather than sat down outside the crater and have the team come to him, as Watkins fully
[00:09:03] expected the pilot pulled up and hovered over the crater.
[00:09:07] As the team looked up and disbelief, the old aged 34 warbird began gently settling itself
[00:09:13] down toward the team like a mother hand about to cover her chicks.
[00:09:17] Thus also decreasing the silhouette to enemy troops.
[00:09:21] By the light of the burning elephant grass, Watkins was able to see into the king bees
[00:09:27] cocked it and was startled to find the copilot seat empty.
[00:09:33] In the pilot seat was as much admired friend Captain On, a man who had saved Watkins
[00:09:40] bacon on many other occasions, but none quite like what he faced here at Oscar 8.
[00:09:47] Captain On lowered his king be toward the team with a precision and steadiness that
[00:09:52] gave an entirely new meaning to the word cool.
[00:09:56] His face was smooth and calm, but there was steel in his eyes as he worked both feet
[00:10:00] and hands to maneuver the choppers close to RT line as he could.
[00:10:04] At one point Watkins could have sworn that On nodded to him as if an occasional greeting.
[00:10:09] The whole scene bordered on surrealistic.
[00:10:13] What would the LZ lit by a flickering brush fire, the sounds of gunfire and explosions,
[00:10:18] the smell of cordite and burned human flesh, and this improbable savior hovering above.
[00:10:26] As Watkins had experienced before, the action took on a dreamlike quality sounds faded as
[00:10:31] if someone had turned down the volume, the air thickened, movement appeared to be in slow
[00:10:35] motion, and the brain snapped individual frames that would never ever be forgotten.
[00:10:40] The looks of fear or pain on their faces, bodies being blasted backward, a piece of
[00:10:45] someone on the ground, a scrap of cloth, one's own hand clutching a weapon or shaking wildly
[00:10:50] as it tries to execute some simple well rehearsed, but now impossible difficult task.
[00:10:55] This is what Watkins looks like to a mind-understress.
[00:10:59] Watkins could hear small arms fire thumping into the king be as body as he fully expected
[00:11:04] that at any moment it would either pull up an exit or come crashing down on them.
[00:11:10] But it did neither.
[00:11:11] It settled into a stationary hover, its front wheels placed delicately inside the crater.
[00:11:19] And there it sat, an unbelievable vision, a heroic portrait of an old warrior taking a pounding
[00:11:25] but refusing to falter.
[00:11:29] Watkins, DeSata, and Godwin begin heaving the brew into the chopper.
[00:11:34] Godwin followed.
[00:11:35] DeSata after taking an anxious look at his team leader was next, his bright red star pointed
[00:11:41] over his right ear as if he wasn't quite sure whether he wanted to be going or staying.
[00:11:46] Finally in accordance with that time-honored tradition, the one-zero feet with a last
[00:11:51] to leave the killing ground of Oscar eight.
[00:11:55] With the door gunner and team pouring small arms fire and M79 rounds into the perimeter
[00:12:00] beyond its rim, the king lifted up and out of the crater.
[00:12:07] As a last to find gesture, Watkins threw a red smoke grenade onto the LZ.
[00:12:11] This gesture was universally understood by everyone who supported Saga to signal that
[00:12:16] the team was safely out, the LZ clear and everyone else was free to pound the living
[00:12:21] daylights out of it.
[00:12:24] Their RT line was not home-free, not yet at least.
[00:12:29] Anti-aircraft rounds were bursting around them like a World War II Akak fire.
[00:12:33] Captain Onn was dipping and juking in an effort to judge the dodge the bursts and make
[00:12:38] himself harder to track.
[00:12:40] He still looked calm, cool, and collected as if he were making a routine flight.
[00:12:46] For these guys, Watkins, maybe this was a routine flight.
[00:12:52] In the king be touched down a case on, Tassada, Godwin, and the grinning door gunner walked
[00:12:58] around poking their fingers into bullet holes and counting them.
[00:13:02] But they soon gave up.
[00:13:04] There were too many.
[00:13:06] In besides it was just too unsettling, unsettling to contemplate what might have been.
[00:13:13] Watkins learned later that Captain Onn had chosen to fly solo in the Oscar eight because
[00:13:19] he knew exactly how dangerous this mission was.
[00:13:23] He'd lost King Bees there before and was determined not to risk more lives than necessary.
[00:13:31] He figured if the gods were damed that his ship go down while trying to save RT line,
[00:13:36] it would just be him and the door gunner.
[00:13:40] It seemed like a simple and perfectly logical decision.
[00:13:43] No big deal.
[00:13:46] Incredibly everyone who participated in the mission was alive and well.
[00:13:51] But men of RT line were home, seasoned veterans of Oscar eight.
[00:13:56] It had indeed been there time after all.
[00:14:06] So that is a whole different kind of heroism.
[00:14:18] Because look when you're on the ground, in many cases you don't even have a choice,
[00:14:24] but to be a hero.
[00:14:26] You either step up or you die.
[00:14:31] But for these pilots, men like Captain Onn, they don't really have to do anything heroic.
[00:14:42] They could easily say that the landing zones too hot or they've already been shot or
[00:14:45] the low on fuel or whatever.
[00:14:51] But they're safe in their aircraft.
[00:14:54] And they see the hell that is going on and they see the hell that they are going into.
[00:14:59] They call it's and rockets and anti-aircraft and they go anyway.
[00:15:07] They go anyway.
[00:15:10] Men like Captain Noin Key Arn, a pilot in the South Vietnamese Air Force who flew countless
[00:15:18] missions in saintly dangerous missions in support of American and South Vietnamese
[00:15:24] sog teams. These are recipient of the silver star and the distinguished flying cross.
[00:15:33] And it is an absolute honor to have Captain Onn with us here to talk about his experience
[00:15:39] in fighting in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
[00:15:44] Captain Onn, it's an absolute honor to have here.
[00:15:49] But I guess also joining us once again is John Strike or Meyer, till Special Forces member
[00:15:58] of Sog who has been on this podcast before.
[00:16:01] Couple times 180, 1801, 1802, 1806 with the Frenchman, 247, 248 and the last one with
[00:16:09] cowboy con.
[00:16:10] Cowboys.
[00:16:11] 258 back again.
[00:16:14] Thank you so much.
[00:16:16] And when you first came on after the first couple times people started asking almost immediately
[00:16:23] to if I could find a king bee pilot.
[00:16:27] And I know as soon as you very quickly mentioned Captain Onn.
[00:16:32] Always.
[00:16:34] Number one king bee.
[00:16:35] For sure.
[00:16:36] Thank you.
[00:16:39] So on tell us about what it was like growing up.
[00:16:42] Where did you grow up?
[00:16:43] I would grow up at Hanway, not at Vietnam.
[00:16:50] My father decided to move to family to the South in 1954.
[00:16:56] That was after the French got beat.
[00:17:00] So did your father recognize the bad things could happen?
[00:17:03] Yes.
[00:17:04] And what did your father do for a living?
[00:17:07] Did you meet before in the 55th of the 54th?
[00:17:14] He has some kind of business to cut the lumber.
[00:17:17] Like a long ago.
[00:17:19] He high people to do it when he organized the office.
[00:17:25] And after the 54th we moved down to the South.
[00:17:34] They looked for one of the French company.
[00:17:40] He worked for a French company?
[00:17:41] Yes.
[00:17:42] Okay.
[00:17:43] After the 54th.
[00:17:44] Then he moved to the South.
[00:17:46] Okay.
[00:17:47] And what did you do?
[00:17:48] How old were you when you moved to the South?
[00:17:50] I was 15, 11.
[00:17:52] 11 years old.
[00:17:53] Yeah.
[00:17:54] And my father sent my son and my brother.
[00:17:58] A young brother at that time, he was 10 and to try to with one of the French to the South.
[00:18:08] Now did you have any understanding of what was happening with the communist and North Vietnam?
[00:18:14] Did you have any understanding of that yet?
[00:18:18] Before we went to the South, then I remember.
[00:18:28] At night, I see the next to my father.
[00:18:33] He was a police officer, a police officer, a police officer, which he made because my
[00:18:42] brother, who was killed in 45.
[00:18:49] When he was 17.
[00:18:51] Okay.
[00:18:52] By the communist.
[00:18:53] The communist.
[00:18:54] Yeah.
[00:18:55] So, once you got down the South Vietnam, now you're 11 years old.
[00:19:01] And what did you do?
[00:19:03] Were you just going to school?
[00:19:04] Yes, I did.
[00:19:06] And since we moved around on the time, I know it to high funk and then go to the South.
[00:19:18] And my brother, next to me, we are on try to make a two great in one year.
[00:19:27] You try to make what in one year?
[00:19:28] Two great.
[00:19:29] Okay.
[00:19:30] Were you able to do it?
[00:19:33] Yeah.
[00:19:34] Okay.
[00:19:35] We did.
[00:19:36] Nice.
[00:19:37] Nice.
[00:19:37] And in 62.
[00:19:41] In 62, I was on the Air Force.
[00:19:48] My brother, he got a scholarship from Usham and he went here too.
[00:19:54] So 1962 is when you joined the Air Force.
[00:19:58] And once you joined the Air Force, did you know you were going to be a pilot?
[00:20:03] Yes.
[00:20:04] Okay.
[00:20:05] But I didn't believe that I would be.
[00:20:12] I couldn't ride the car, I couldn't ride air.
[00:20:14] You were there when you were even ever in a bus.
[00:20:18] Because every time I got in the car, my stomach was like, come up to my mouth.
[00:20:24] You're a car, sir.
[00:20:26] Chaucic train, sir.
[00:20:28] Every day.
[00:20:29] Here we get.
[00:20:30] Yeah, that's not fun.
[00:20:32] But eventually you were able to get over that?
[00:20:34] Yes.
[00:20:35] The first time I'm my IP, he demonstrated the engine quit all the oral total tasting.
[00:20:45] And I feel my stomach is coming up.
[00:20:50] I can't hear how can I fly.
[00:20:53] But they are on, I get used with it.
[00:20:55] Right.
[00:20:56] And I like it.
[00:21:00] I know that they have something for American pilots.
[00:21:03] And I don't know if they made you do this.
[00:21:04] They have something where if you get air sickness, they have something I think it's in
[00:21:08] taxes.
[00:21:09] It's called Spin and Puk.
[00:21:11] And they basically put you in this machine every day and it spins you around and makes
[00:21:15] you sick until you get used to it.
[00:21:17] Really?
[00:21:18] Yep.
[00:21:19] So I guess you didn't do that.
[00:21:22] No.
[00:21:23] You didn't have to go to the Spin and Puk.
[00:21:26] One auto rotation helps.
[00:21:29] So how long were you in the Air Force before you started training to become a pilot?
[00:21:36] When I was in Air Force in late 1962, and formerly it was on the very first of the 63.
[00:21:51] I was having the basic terminally training in the Nya Shank for the ESI-off course.
[00:21:59] So for six months.
[00:22:02] And in Zurai, 63, I was sent here to get a tiny.
[00:22:12] So you came to America?
[00:22:13] Yeah, and got the ESI-algan training in the industry.
[00:22:17] In the San Antonio.
[00:22:18] Okay.
[00:22:19] So you go to San Antonio to first of all, how to speak English?
[00:22:26] Oh, in Vietnam.
[00:22:29] Okay.
[00:22:30] When I kept the ability to be literally training and the ESI-al in English training for
[00:22:38] six months, and then when I went to the San Antonio Tigers, another four months for
[00:22:47] ESL in English, in English, after that I went to four waters in Texas.
[00:22:56] Okay.
[00:22:57] And what was the first one?
[00:22:58] The first one was for?
[00:22:59] Probably, how do you go to training?
[00:23:02] Okay.
[00:23:03] Is the ESI-algan training three?
[00:23:06] The ESI-23.
[00:23:07] The ESI-23.
[00:23:08] The ESI-23.
[00:23:09] It's small and ugly.
[00:23:12] That's like the bubble canopy, right?
[00:23:15] Simultaneously.
[00:23:16] Yeah, it's a very, very old one.
[00:23:19] And then, so how long did you spend in America training the fly?
[00:23:27] From the first training, I had the advanced training on ESI-23, to then after
[00:23:37] happiness, I went to Alabama to get the training on the ESL-24.
[00:23:44] The Kingby.
[00:23:45] The Kingby.
[00:23:46] What was your first impression of the Kingby?
[00:23:48] It was big.
[00:23:49] Because it was from the ESI-23.
[00:23:53] It was small one.
[00:23:54] It was training one.
[00:23:56] And when I finished the training on the ESI-24, I was thankful to get the training on the
[00:24:09] Huey.
[00:24:10] At that time, they only have the school.
[00:24:13] They only have the A model.
[00:24:15] It's a smaller one.
[00:24:18] The A model Huey?
[00:24:19] Yeah.
[00:24:20] What did you like better?
[00:24:21] The Huey or the Kingby?
[00:24:23] It's a kidney.
[00:24:25] It's a kidney.
[00:24:27] It had the Bail.
[00:24:28] At that time, it was about 150 hundred house power.
[00:24:33] But the Huey wasn't A model.
[00:24:36] He was only 900 house power.
[00:24:40] But the Huey is a lot smaller than the Kingby.
[00:24:43] Yes, it is small.
[00:24:46] But did you feel like you had more power in the Kingby?
[00:24:48] No.
[00:24:49] No.
[00:24:50] Because it's too easy.
[00:24:51] Too easy to fry.
[00:24:53] What's that one?
[00:24:55] Because on the ESI-24, I got told about how it's.
[00:25:05] How many hours?
[00:25:06] Hundred hours.
[00:25:07] Wow.
[00:25:09] But on the Huey, I only had the 900 hours.
[00:25:14] Okay.
[00:25:15] And the pilot, Captain Bylode, who checked me, he said,
[00:25:21] Okay.
[00:25:22] He's a good stay home.
[00:25:23] You don't need to fry anymore.
[00:25:26] He's the home.
[00:25:27] He can have more time to take out of people.
[00:25:30] God.
[00:25:31] Other people don't learn as quickly as he did.
[00:25:33] God.
[00:25:34] So I was awful one week and this girl ran.
[00:25:38] So then, so is that what you got trained in?
[00:25:43] You completed all that training.
[00:25:45] And then it was going back to Vietnam.
[00:25:48] Yes, in the 61.
[00:25:51] Around the Zoolai 64.
[00:25:54] So in 64 America's there, but not super heavy engaged in combat operations yet.
[00:26:03] What was it like when you got back?
[00:26:05] Were you starting to anticipate?
[00:26:08] Were you starting to seem like there was going to be a broader war being fought there?
[00:26:13] Don't forget, June on 1964, Roger Dollen, earned the first Medal of Honor at a Green
[00:26:19] Brey camp.
[00:26:21] So there were major battles at the A camps, at that level.
[00:26:26] And so, and the course that King Bees, even then, were supporting somebody at the A camps.
[00:26:30] So that was the beginning of that war at a serious level.
[00:26:34] And yes, we didn't get the American troops involved to hydranny Valley, but they began to build up
[00:26:38] the Marines came into today.
[00:26:40] So he was all part of that.
[00:26:42] What year did the Marines come into the day?
[00:26:44] There was 64 I think.
[00:26:45] Yes, 64, 64, 64, 64.
[00:26:47] Yeah, because it's always hydrang in 65.
[00:26:51] That sort of, in my mind, marks the beginning of like heavy American combat operations.
[00:26:57] Yes, it has a formal battle between American first cab and the NVA.
[00:27:02] So, but yeah, definitely prior to that, it was advisors in their working by-with-and-through
[00:27:08] the locals.
[00:27:10] Right.
[00:27:11] And yeah.
[00:27:13] So you are seeing all that happen.
[00:27:15] You're seeing that start to unfold.
[00:27:17] Where you, at what point did you start flying the King Bees in support of special operations?
[00:27:23] When I first came back from the U.S. training, I was assigned to the...
[00:27:31] 2017 squad.
[00:27:34] And the 2017 squad, the first station at Saigon.
[00:27:39] And in the 60, later 65, was moved to Cantel in the south.
[00:27:48] And in February, 1966, I was assigned to the 80-thirds of the military.
[00:28:00] The 80-thirds group.
[00:28:03] This is the group that combine face-wing and helicopter to verify the sacred mission.
[00:28:11] And later on, the helicopter-through group become a two-nineteen.
[00:28:20] But the group of the 80, the helicopter group in 80-thirds,
[00:28:25] and it's basically a heavy-fledged helicopter.
[00:28:30] But when we become, became the two-nineteen, we have about 34 of them.
[00:28:37] Did you know what you were getting into?
[00:28:40] Yeah.
[00:28:41] Were those kind of...
[00:28:42] I like it.
[00:28:44] And because he's very modest.
[00:28:46] The first two years, basically, from...
[00:28:49] He went to the first the 2017, the commander that didn't like North Vietnamese.
[00:28:55] So he was only a cop-out.
[00:28:57] But he applied cop-out.
[00:28:58] He gave very bored, he wants more action.
[00:29:00] So he finally gets to be questioned.
[00:29:02] And he goes and gets the action.
[00:29:07] So once you started doing that, what was that like?
[00:29:11] What was it like to start going out on those operations where there was all this incredible intensity on the ground?
[00:29:18] Oh, I think he's more excited than in a normal squad.
[00:29:26] Yeah, I'd say it's probably more exciting than in a normal squadron.
[00:29:31] Oh, dude.
[00:29:34] What was the operational pace like?
[00:29:39] How often were you getting called to fly?
[00:29:42] What would happen?
[00:29:43] Would you be on standby waiting to go extract people?
[00:29:47] Would you sit and plan with the guys from SOG?
[00:29:50] So you all were working together?
[00:29:52] How did all that work?
[00:29:55] Everything.
[00:29:56] I woke up like that.
[00:29:58] Because they had a rotation.
[00:30:00] Like one week they would be on assignment, one week they'd be training.
[00:30:04] And another week they'd be getting ready.
[00:30:06] And then one week or so they'd be on a side.
[00:30:08] They could be able to food by.
[00:30:09] Yeah.
[00:30:10] Then they go down a contone.
[00:30:11] Wherever the most bending on a weather, what missions were up.
[00:30:15] So would SOG ground guys go and, you know, would you sit down and say, okay,
[00:30:20] here's where we're going to insert.
[00:30:21] Here's where we go up, order.
[00:30:22] And they would be in for the briefing.
[00:30:24] Practing on.
[00:30:25] Before we went out to the operation that we have the briefing.
[00:30:29] What we are going to do and where we are going to work.
[00:30:34] But since I was also familiar with the whole board from
[00:30:41] Hesign down to Praco, Mami to the whole water around the island.
[00:30:49] And always the whole team in 12.
[00:30:51] I'm so familiar with it.
[00:30:53] I just, yeah.
[00:30:54] I don't need to bring map.
[00:30:56] You were that familiar with it.
[00:30:58] Yeah.
[00:30:59] Here's another thing.
[00:31:00] During those briefings, when they're there as a one zero,
[00:31:04] the king bees, as we went further into the war,
[00:31:07] we were saying we found 23 mic mic here.
[00:31:11] 37 mic anti-aircraft weaponry in those targets.
[00:31:15] So they would tell the cubby and their expertise would be another bonus
[00:31:19] that we had in terms of our briefing.
[00:31:21] We're not the fly.
[00:31:23] That's one of the briefing parts.
[00:31:25] So it's like we hear what the mission was.
[00:31:27] Get that from S3.
[00:31:28] But we'd always hear from them than the cubby after that.
[00:31:32] Oh yeah.
[00:31:34] So you'd be flying basically some kind of combat mission every day
[00:31:39] or two days, three days at the most.
[00:31:41] Oh, sometimes in one day we are through a three mission.
[00:31:47] It's mission last about less than two hours.
[00:31:52] Yeah.
[00:31:53] Yeah, see, that's what's cool about being a pilot, right?
[00:31:55] Two hours, you know, two hours in your dog.
[00:31:58] If you live to come home, you're going to have to come home.
[00:32:01] You're doing all right.
[00:32:03] You're back eating good shall and drinking a cold beer.
[00:32:06] Indeed.
[00:32:07] So how long did it take before you finally ended up getting shot down?
[00:32:15] Ooh.
[00:32:17] They should get.
[00:32:18] Like when did I know you ended up getting shot down?
[00:32:21] How long were you flying for before you got shot down for the first time?
[00:32:24] Over four years.
[00:32:25] Over four years.
[00:32:26] Over five years.
[00:32:27] Over five years.
[00:32:28] Over seven times.
[00:32:33] I don't remember.
[00:32:34] Because I was at that point high at four times.
[00:32:37] And I was at that point four times.
[00:32:39] Yeah.
[00:32:40] I don't remember.
[00:32:41] I don't even remember which day we were at that.
[00:32:44] I said the last time I lost my hand.
[00:32:46] Can you remember that?
[00:32:48] Yeah.
[00:32:49] The first time you got shot.
[00:32:50] You don't really remember what happened.
[00:32:51] The first time you got shot down.
[00:32:52] Oh.
[00:32:53] The first time I was shot down was in south of the Mabu mountain.
[00:32:59] And in the morning we suppose to take the.
[00:33:04] They put to make the security line south of the Mabu mountain.
[00:33:11] And in Marble, Mabu, right where F would be four was.
[00:33:14] So this is the in country mission.
[00:33:16] And they're picking up a batting to put it on the south side of Marble, Mabu.
[00:33:19] Because F would be four was on a north side.
[00:33:22] And they were having some issues.
[00:33:23] They put the batting out there for security purposes.
[00:33:26] The work and the long with the Marines at that point.
[00:33:29] And so something clocked in the morning.
[00:33:31] South Vietnam.
[00:33:32] He gets shot down.
[00:33:34] Yeah.
[00:33:35] Yeah.
[00:33:36] And I will now at sea so clock.
[00:33:38] And in South the.
[00:33:41] I'm a drop the.
[00:33:43] The two.
[00:33:44] And when the second king, the land.
[00:33:48] And he said that he kept.
[00:33:50] He kept. He caught the.
[00:33:52] The ground fine.
[00:33:53] And I told him.
[00:33:55] Remember which way.
[00:33:57] And.
[00:33:59] And I come back to.
[00:34:00] Mabu mountain pick up more people.
[00:34:02] And then land again.
[00:34:05] And I see which.
[00:34:07] Which direction is that.
[00:34:09] He said to a clock.
[00:34:11] And I take up and have to two two.
[00:34:13] A couple of.
[00:34:14] A little direction.
[00:34:15] And I saw a line of the people.
[00:34:18] And I was moving.
[00:34:20] With the.
[00:34:21] I was.
[00:34:22] I was a woman and she got killed.
[00:34:25] And with the.
[00:34:26] But you know, Mabu too much.
[00:34:28] The carry.
[00:34:29] Yes.
[00:34:30] Yeah.
[00:34:30] And I told the.
[00:34:32] The.
[00:34:33] The.
[00:34:34] The.
[00:34:35] The people.
[00:34:36] The civilian people.
[00:34:37] The.
[00:34:38] The.
[00:34:39] The.
[00:34:39] The.
[00:34:39] And as long as I.
[00:34:41] I.
[00:34:42] I.
[00:34:43] I.
[00:34:44] A.
[00:34:45] A.
[00:34:45] A.
[00:34:46] Long.
[00:34:47] The.
[00:34:57] But the.
[00:34:59] The.
[00:35:00] And.
[00:35:03] The.
[00:35:05] The third shop.
[00:35:06] The.
[00:35:07] The.
[00:35:10] People were fake.
[00:35:11] During.
[00:35:13] XV.
[00:35:14] I was like, wow, wow, again, to take the child back.
[00:35:19] And we took the child back.
[00:35:22] The mechanic couldn't find any round.
[00:35:27] So, we keep asking me, tell them, tell them, tell them,
[00:35:35] what happened, what really happened.
[00:35:38] We couldn't find any round, then it must be the technical problem.
[00:35:45] I said, yes, I heard the round earlier, it was fire.
[00:35:52] Later, in the afternoon, one of the mechanic ships,
[00:35:58] he opened the Fondar of the engine.
[00:36:06] He looked around.
[00:36:10] Suddenly, he saw the cap of the needle.
[00:36:19] That was the whole thing.
[00:36:21] That was it.
[00:36:23] He was wondering, why is it this?
[00:36:26] That is the whole thing.
[00:36:29] The people didn't change it.
[00:36:31] So, he could call the mechanic and open it.
[00:36:35] My wallet was in there.
[00:36:38] And that makes it harder to ignite it.
[00:36:41] So, you would go back out and you went back out and recovered that aircraft?
[00:36:46] Yeah.
[00:36:47] Would you tie straps onto it and bring it back or how to do it?
[00:36:51] I go, go out and we did to sew them, how to bring it down the aircraft back.
[00:37:00] Would you bring it back with another helicopter?
[00:37:02] Yeah.
[00:37:03] Tie it on and bring it back and then start working on it.
[00:37:06] Did you feel jinks to go back in that aircraft again?
[00:37:09] Yeah.
[00:37:10] Like, you don't know.
[00:37:13] Or did you feel lucky?
[00:37:15] You already got shot down, you made it.
[00:37:18] You don't win.
[00:37:20] I was in the rice paddy.
[00:37:24] I saw the amount of the chocolate and the amount of the I'm turning.
[00:37:32] The old one, the old two, remember seeing that.
[00:37:36] And then my true shape, bring a little bit of candy, the arm of the box.
[00:37:41] And my co-pie, he ran along with me.
[00:37:46] When I went back to the I'm literally, I looked back and I saw the one.
[00:37:53] The water on the rice paddy was fairly done.
[00:37:57] Because in the front day they were sweating from the wheelies.
[00:38:01] Oh, yeah.
[00:38:02] Still.
[00:38:03] And then to the bottom of the rice paddy and put it again with the machine gunner and loaded and I shot it.
[00:38:13] I got idiot, worked.
[00:38:15] Only one round in the time.
[00:38:18] I didn't want to see it.
[00:38:25] It was all 30 calories.
[00:38:27] We're not the most reliable after the first 30 years of combat.
[00:38:31] I know there's another story where you got shot down again after.
[00:38:39] And the day before, King B had been shot down and then you went into, what happened on that operation?
[00:38:45] The day before we went out and to be surprised and bring the wound from the team.
[00:39:00] And I ran and picked up some, and I resuppied some.
[00:39:05] The second one, let's hide there by the RPC.
[00:39:09] And it was about 5 p.m.
[00:39:16] And when they saw it, I came back to the back toe.
[00:39:27] And now we lost two things every time.
[00:39:31] Yeah, two things on the previous day.
[00:39:35] And I decided, how did you feel about going on an operation when there was two King B shot down the day before?
[00:39:43] And now you have to go back in there. What did that feel like?
[00:39:48] I think that we need to bring the honor by friend, right?
[00:39:56] And when I went to an doctor, the radio man from the camp, he went out and he said,
[00:40:09] all the from side gone, no two men anymore.
[00:40:12] And he lowered his spine, but the last decision is yours.
[00:40:21] And I said, oh, I'm going to go again.
[00:40:26] And I asked it to go V and the two Renship and my number three, number four.
[00:40:34] King B. I will go in again and when we were about, yeah, I told him,
[00:40:48] that's a follow me. And when we were about five kilometers from the L.D.
[00:40:58] then you people were just updating.
[00:41:01] And I will go now by myself.
[00:41:04] And I wait until 7 o'clock, a 7 p.m. is dark.
[00:41:13] And I say, let's go. And I turn out on my light.
[00:41:19] Even the last one, light.
[00:41:23] Turn them off. Turn them off.
[00:41:25] Very, very, very, very, very faint.
[00:41:28] How to see it.
[00:41:30] And because anyway, for a far, far, far, long, high,
[00:41:36] far, I can listen to the engine and know how much data it was working.
[00:41:45] And how much I know how many L.P.M. is running.
[00:41:49] I can listen to it.
[00:41:51] And when you were about five kilometers from the L.D.
[00:41:57] I turned off the light and tell other people to a little bit wait for me.
[00:42:03] And I asked the Kobi, do you see me?
[00:42:07] And he said that, yes.
[00:42:11] So I turned off the engine and go down, go down to the top or to three.
[00:42:18] Rikovil. And I see him again.
[00:42:21] Do you see me? And he said, yes.
[00:42:24] Okay, guide me.
[00:42:26] And you guys tell the light, light, light, light.
[00:42:30] And the L.D.R. had and make a 360 with a 90, 90, not go my 360 degree to land on the L.D.
[00:42:41] So they were walking you in and telling the Kobi was telling you to tell the Kobi was telling me.
[00:42:47] Guide me.
[00:42:49] Yeah.
[00:42:50] At night.
[00:42:52] At three top.
[00:42:54] In the jungle, this is in the mountains here.
[00:42:57] It's not like for flying a camp, booty, where it's flat.
[00:43:01] He's flying over the hills to just, and that's just part of one another day with a king be pile at night.
[00:43:09] With the lights out.
[00:43:10] And he got to everybody out.
[00:43:12] Mm-hmm.
[00:43:14] And the next day, I came in again.
[00:43:19] And at the 10 am.
[00:43:23] And when I was ticking off.
[00:43:26] And I heard a big brush.
[00:43:31] And they said, the chopper started to make up.
[00:43:37] Because the engine was last.
[00:43:40] The brush broke up.
[00:43:42] Yeah, broke up.
[00:43:43] We broke up the engine.
[00:43:44] Wait, what broke up the engine?
[00:43:46] Yeah, they didn't fire.
[00:43:47] It was hit by the RPE.
[00:43:50] Okay, guide me the phone.
[00:43:52] Yeah.
[00:43:57] I make it the right move to keep the joppers.
[00:44:02] Go stick to the side of the hill.
[00:44:06] And still, I'm a start-of-the-loaded road.
[00:44:10] I load the left side down to a so it can hold on the side of the hill.
[00:44:16] And it's just mud.
[00:44:19] And I say that the koppai, when I come out, I get koppai.
[00:44:31] He always on my other left eye.
[00:44:33] And I said, the run.
[00:44:35] So let's do the next.
[00:44:36] I get this.
[00:44:37] Your aircraft gets hit with an RPG.
[00:44:40] Yeah.
[00:44:41] The engine dies.
[00:44:42] The engine came off.
[00:44:43] The engine came off.
[00:44:44] Yeah, it blew off the engine.
[00:44:46] Okay.
[00:44:47] So now the chopper goes nose up.
[00:44:51] Yeah.
[00:44:52] You're going to crash land and you have to do it on a hillside.
[00:44:55] Yeah.
[00:44:55] And so you had to maneuver the helicopter to be at the angle.
[00:44:59] Yeah.
[00:45:00] So you won't be falling a little road out of the hill.
[00:45:03] And then, so you land it.
[00:45:05] Basically, you are able to crash land it.
[00:45:08] And then you look your koppai and say, run.
[00:45:12] And then have to heal up.
[00:45:15] Okay.
[00:45:18] So you then you joined the de-sag team on the ground.
[00:45:21] Yes.
[00:45:22] Did you charge the M30 again for good luck?
[00:45:25] No.
[00:45:26] At that time, we, I'll hit him 60.
[00:45:29] Okay.
[00:45:30] So you got the M60 off of it?
[00:45:32] Yeah.
[00:45:33] Yeah.
[00:45:34] So then what happened when you joined up with the de-sag team?
[00:45:37] The south team, because of the M60 and M18 was...
[00:45:42] All over the, the, the, the dish.
[00:45:46] And I, I wrapped one of them.
[00:45:50] No.
[00:45:51] At first I, yeah.
[00:45:53] I ended up one of them tried to shoot.
[00:45:56] And, who are the de-sag team from?
[00:45:59] But the, the, the Indian work, because they shoot,
[00:46:04] he shot all of them and the de-sag.
[00:46:08] They, uh, ran out of both.
[00:46:11] Yeah.
[00:46:13] Uh, I think they, uh, they're going to shoot the right.
[00:46:17] Oh, the gun was too dry.
[00:46:19] Yeah.
[00:46:20] I'll go to the shoot and then walk.
[00:46:21] Okay.
[00:46:22] So now you're in a perimeter, I guess, with your team, with the team.
[00:46:26] They're wounded.
[00:46:27] Yeah.
[00:46:28] And this is a wounded people who had picked that team.
[00:46:30] What team was this?
[00:46:31] I'm not sure.
[00:46:32] Sout a cartoon.
[00:46:33] This is before my time, even like, 67.
[00:46:36] I think.
[00:46:37] So I, I ran around and, uh, in five, and all the, uh,
[00:46:41] I'm, uh, 179 again.
[00:46:43] Mm-hmm.
[00:46:44] And 28-large.
[00:46:45] Two-baked, of the, and it, and it.
[00:46:47] So I just, okay.
[00:46:48] You should, may now, I'll be, uh, maybe, I did, maybe, maybe to you.
[00:46:51] I should, I should, I should, I should, I, I am the two-baked,
[00:46:55] I will, uh, am until the day.
[00:46:57] And, uh, I, uh, I should have been from 15 meters away from us to 200 meters away from us.
[00:47:06] Yeah, how long were you guys on the ground for before you got extracted?
[00:47:10] Oh.
[00:47:11] And, uh, when I, uh, after, after I started on a degree,
[00:47:16] I, uh, called the decovi.
[00:47:19] And, uh, he said, you still like, yeah, I still got that.
[00:47:23] And I called my rescue pilot because he, he's, he was on the sky.
[00:47:29] And he saw the, he said that he, he saw the, uh, the frame,
[00:47:33] the line of frame, the row, he, and hit my, uh, chopper and my chopper, I spoke,
[00:47:38] you know, the front row, I spoke and he thought that I was not that.
[00:47:43] But, like, he, he was not that, and he said, oh, you still like, I see him,
[00:47:49] but don't let it in the wall.
[00:47:51] We have to move.
[00:47:53] Yeah, so here, if that had been a U.E., they're dead.
[00:47:57] Everybody's dead, but that's a kingby.
[00:47:59] Yeah, the U.E. and the R.P.G.
[00:48:01] Hit the engine and blew it out, which is a nine cylinder World War Two engine
[00:48:05] from the B-17, but blew it out to aircraft, and he still,
[00:48:08] they will talk about it, walk away from it.
[00:48:11] Yeah, and crash land that thing.
[00:48:13] On the, on the sideways on the hill.
[00:48:15] Yeah.
[00:48:17] So, so was the, uh, the other aircraft, the other kingby then land and pick you guys up quickly
[00:48:23] or were you out there for a while?
[00:48:24] No, we have to, well, we have to run away from the,
[00:48:27] away from the L.Z. with the, with the team on 10 a.m. to HOP-M before I was bigger.
[00:48:35] So much for the two hour mission.
[00:48:37] Six hour six hour.
[00:48:39] And you're getting shot up by the NVA the whole time?
[00:48:43] Yeah, many times.
[00:48:44] And he's learning how to shoot the M79 in between the M16 and the M60,
[00:48:48] whatever around the has.
[00:48:50] On the job training in lay us.
[00:48:54] She's. So then you come back from that mission.
[00:48:58] And then take a shower, get ready, and go brief another mission.
[00:49:03] That's what you guys did.
[00:49:05] No, after having the mission that I was saw down,
[00:49:07] I went back to the, uh, Rob did back to Dr.
[00:49:12] And at that time, all of my commander, my squad, the man and the whole staff,
[00:49:16] I'll just go out and came down to Dr.
[00:49:19] To see what happened.
[00:49:21] And it couldn't believe you're still alive.
[00:49:24] And yeah.
[00:49:25] And when I first, when I first see my, my squad and go man,
[00:49:32] I said that my five need to have one week to,
[00:49:37] I'm big from a verification to relax.
[00:49:41] Did you give it to you?
[00:49:42] Yeah, he said, okay.
[00:49:44] So all you had to do is take a RPG hit, have your engine blown out,
[00:49:48] crash land and do a six hour gun fight with the NVA to get a week's vacation.
[00:49:53] I don't know. That seems like a rough tour.
[00:49:58] But the, the previous day, one of the job,
[00:50:02] I also got him by the RPG and the co-pilot, got killed.
[00:50:09] And the pilot and the, and the, and the mechanic and the delicious.
[00:50:17] I've burned, burned, burned, burned.
[00:50:20] I, I burned from the home.
[00:50:22] Yeah.
[00:50:23] Yeah.
[00:50:24] And then before the, the next day, before I left the housing,
[00:50:29] I went back to the,
[00:50:32] the last standing of the,
[00:50:34] the, the shop at the Wada,
[00:50:36] the, yes, of the, the previously and try to look for something.
[00:50:42] The, it's, it's, it's, it's got no remain of the co-pilot of the playlist day.
[00:50:48] But I couldn't find any.
[00:50:51] The whole thing was the,
[00:50:53] why us, because the,
[00:50:56] the, a club was the aluminum.
[00:50:58] Oh, so it just burned.
[00:51:00] It's just burned.
[00:51:02] Hmm.
[00:51:07] That, that wasn't your last time getting shot down.
[00:51:10] No, no, no, no.
[00:51:11] What about your tail row tail row getting shot off?
[00:51:16] Oh, tail row till the little cable.
[00:51:19] Um, it was in the house.
[00:51:23] And I was taken off.
[00:51:25] And suddenly I feel somebody hit my,
[00:51:30] on my, my food, on my feet.
[00:51:33] I've been, I've been.
[00:51:35] And I asked my,
[00:51:37] to bring it out, to thiswald,
[00:51:39] If you, you know,
[00:51:40] it came down the table.
[00:51:41] So there was a lot more than the peculiarity,
[00:51:43] certificates.
[00:51:44] Those line, guess what?
[00:51:46] What the,
[00:51:47] sum we Chaepp,
[00:51:47] whole finishes from here?
[00:51:50] Is certainly.
[00:51:51] Yeap Luke?
[00:51:52] Y 이거?
[00:51:53] The show.
[00:51:54] Saw, um,
[00:51:55] of this 질문.
[00:51:57] Well, we got to go in the room in the other去了
[00:51:59] because programming is the specialty solution,
[00:52:01] but in our table.
[00:52:02] Well, the coaching could be Andrew with the tower's house.
[00:52:05] But we had to calculate that.
[00:52:06] I did the job, but when I was taking it off,
[00:52:10] the job was done to turn right,
[00:52:13] because we don't have the control retail
[00:52:16] to remove the recycling to the left
[00:52:18] and reduce the power.
[00:52:20] And except I accept to be shot
[00:52:23] with other now, rather than grasslanding.
[00:52:28] So I did take it off, it was 60 knots
[00:52:32] and 560 knots, a little bit sideways.
[00:52:35] And it's like from the clouds,
[00:52:38] and I caught my...
[00:52:42] The arting me,
[00:52:45] who had landfills and big pay off
[00:52:47] or the extinct singles.
[00:52:51] Because I helped to make a grass,
[00:52:55] and I made a lot of big traffic
[00:53:00] and land, like a red and landing.
[00:53:03] And the tail wheel, that's down,
[00:53:06] I told my go-back,
[00:53:07] to the power.
[00:53:09] And he got off the power
[00:53:12] and he jumped the cell,
[00:53:14] slowly, slowly, he's head down,
[00:53:16] and he gets not running.
[00:53:19] He's a break,
[00:53:21] and he's back to to to to to to stop it,
[00:53:25] but it was not, but before,
[00:53:27] before I test that, I told my cruise ship,
[00:53:31] and I told him to tell the team,
[00:53:33] 9 or 9 of them in the shop,
[00:53:35] and tell the team,
[00:53:36] when I slow down, he's shocked.
[00:53:38] And tell them to jump out.
[00:53:40] The 9 man team.
[00:53:43] Tell them to not do that,
[00:53:44] not to remain,
[00:53:45] because we can make a class.
[00:53:48] And try to need the,
[00:53:51] to jump,
[00:53:53] to the right and stop.
[00:53:56] But I looked down,
[00:53:57] like, no, no, damn jump out.
[00:53:59] Is he still, is he jumping?
[00:54:02] Man.
[00:54:05] And any of the 9 members of the team get wounded,
[00:54:08] one guy was wounded?
[00:54:10] No, nobody's wounded.
[00:54:12] But yet they shot the rotor,
[00:54:14] they, they, they cable to the rotor.
[00:54:16] Yeah, that's crazy.
[00:54:17] And did the aircraft,
[00:54:18] between the weight,
[00:54:19] and the weight,
[00:54:20] he, just a recycling stick.
[00:54:21] Yeah.
[00:54:22] He flew back sideways and decreased the speed.
[00:54:24] I, I never heard that story.
[00:54:26] This is another one of those,
[00:54:28] oh my God, stories.
[00:54:29] Just another day flying kingby.
[00:54:31] We,
[00:54:32] we kept them on.
[00:54:34] Now you know why we say never one pilot.
[00:54:38] Man.
[00:54:40] I tell you one thing.
[00:54:43] Even at that time,
[00:54:45] we have the, uh,
[00:54:46] good chip.
[00:54:47] Yes.
[00:54:48] But to go for the house out,
[00:54:49] then we can make a lot of things.
[00:54:51] Is that right?
[00:54:52] Yeah.
[00:54:53] Because we,
[00:54:54] you know,
[00:54:55] you know,
[00:54:56] when you go out to this operation,
[00:54:58] the fueling and the thinking of the enemy,
[00:55:04] what they are not thinking.
[00:55:07] We can guess,
[00:55:09] but you know,
[00:55:10] you could guess what they are doing.
[00:55:12] What they are going to do.
[00:55:15] So you're saying that the American,
[00:55:17] the Americans,
[00:55:18] we would do random things.
[00:55:20] But the enemy,
[00:55:21] you kind of knew what they were going to do.
[00:55:23] They fall in patterns.
[00:55:24] We can guess most of them.
[00:55:26] Wow.
[00:55:27] The Americans just go out and receive a little ground fire somewhere.
[00:55:33] And they put the surprise it,
[00:55:35] try to surprise it.
[00:55:36] But for us,
[00:55:37] we can guess where they are going to put again.
[00:55:41] Or,
[00:55:42] or what they are going to plan.
[00:55:47] Because sometimes when,
[00:55:49] one time I was shot,
[00:55:52] I was taking up the Aussie and,
[00:55:55] I heard heavy, heavy ground fire from the high side.
[00:56:05] And I looked back and I saw the,
[00:56:07] and we,
[00:56:08] she did behind the 50-carbo.
[00:56:11] I sure they didn't make.
[00:56:13] Less than 100-year.
[00:56:15] And so I,
[00:56:18] I died out of the bamboo top.
[00:56:21] And back to the exact price.
[00:56:23] But the,
[00:56:25] I escaped,
[00:56:26] but the second king became mean and,
[00:56:29] they made it.
[00:56:31] Second,
[00:56:33] give me a shot down,
[00:56:35] shot down,
[00:56:36] cut fire.
[00:56:37] Wow.
[00:56:38] It's too close.
[00:56:40] Less than 100-year.
[00:56:42] I'm,
[00:56:43] another one,
[00:56:48] until it was telling me about,
[00:56:51] was,
[00:56:52] you,
[00:56:53] you got something hit.
[00:56:54] And you got hit by something.
[00:56:55] And it almost knocked you out of your seat.
[00:56:57] Yes.
[00:56:58] And there was a,
[00:56:59] like a two-inch hole in the back of the king.
[00:57:01] What was that?
[00:57:02] We couldn't find the foul.
[00:57:04] We couldn't find the idea around.
[00:57:06] And I don't,
[00:57:07] what kind of,
[00:57:09] what kind of,
[00:57:10] what kind of,
[00:57:11] what kind of,
[00:57:11] what kind of,
[00:57:12] what kind of,
[00:57:14] what kind of,
[00:57:15] what kind of,
[00:57:16] what kind of,
[00:57:17] what kind of,
[00:57:18] what kind of,
[00:57:19] what kind of,
[00:57:20] what kind of,
[00:57:21] maybe is just one or nothing but family know me for...
[00:57:23] that Day lights,
[00:57:25] and it's certainly,
[00:57:26] this direction.
[00:57:27] That somebody hit me with a hammer in the vacuum.
[00:57:29] That.
[00:57:29] like.
[00:57:29] just hit me for a,
[00:57:31] the get,
[00:57:31] He was like,
[00:57:32] it used,
[00:57:32] can't,
[00:57:34] can't let I go like,
[00:57:35] he simply?
[00:57:36] I thought,
[00:57:36] he did a.
[00:57:38] He did a,
[00:57:39] And he did it and will not,
[00:57:40] He did it.
[00:57:40] Alright,
[00:57:41] I used,
[00:57:42] and then I clean
[00:57:43] I
[00:57:42] team,
[00:57:44] He's glad I.
[00:57:46] I used,
[00:57:46] And when they got home, I checked the law and I saw the bike seat, the bike of my seat.
[00:57:56] The whole bit of this one.
[00:58:00] Yeah.
[00:58:02] And we're finally the one.
[00:58:04] Did you guys, was there any armored all on the Kingby?
[00:58:07] No.
[00:58:08] No armor, just aluminum.
[00:58:10] I don't mean them.
[00:58:11] Can't stop anything.
[00:58:13] I said, oh, yeah, one dead as a one.
[00:58:16] I'm afraid.
[00:58:17] You need to answer the answer.
[00:58:19] Under the answer.
[00:58:20] Yeah, an armor plate.
[00:58:21] Oh, to be honest.
[00:58:22] Maybe 18 inches wide.
[00:58:24] We wrap up on the sides under the easy engine.
[00:58:28] Best about the only armor I'm aware of.
[00:58:30] Yeah.
[00:58:31] Yeah.
[00:58:32] Would you wear?
[00:58:33] Did you wear a flack vest or anything?
[00:58:35] No.
[00:58:36] No point.
[00:58:37] No.
[00:58:38] They're able to cool Kingby flight.
[00:58:42] Just a flight suit.
[00:58:43] Overalls.
[00:58:44] Have their Kingby Siggins on them and they have their holster on their hip like a cowboy.
[00:58:52] They're really good looking uniforms.
[00:58:56] I like the black was best.
[00:58:59] How many operations do you think you flew?
[00:59:03] This guy could eat.
[00:59:05] I got four thousand hours.
[00:59:08] And minus one thousand hours for Ryzen or in the other.
[00:59:14] Other thing.
[00:59:16] So three thousand.
[00:59:18] Two thousand.
[00:59:19] Two thousand.
[00:59:20] Two thousand.
[00:59:22] For each mission.
[00:59:24] So 1500 or so missions.
[00:59:26] Yeah, keep it.
[00:59:27] Keep it.
[00:59:28] Keep it.
[00:59:29] These are all song missions.
[00:59:32] Yeah.
[00:59:33] How often, how often would you have any contact on the ground when you were
[00:59:38] in?
[00:59:39] Usually they.
[00:59:46] When I came in to introduce the team and I saw something.
[00:59:57] One decision.
[00:59:58] Like one time when I went to the airs.
[01:00:03] And I saw the telephone line on the airs.
[01:00:07] And the team was getting off.
[01:00:10] I came back to back.
[01:00:13] And they came back to the one time that I saw it.
[01:00:17] And I bought the bike right away.
[01:00:20] But most of the time when we got shot when we take off from the airs.
[01:00:26] When the team would say it's for the extraction.
[01:00:29] Yeah, for the extraction.
[01:00:30] Yeah.
[01:00:31] So most of the time you could get in.
[01:00:33] Well, you were just pulled the team out almost immediately.
[01:00:36] If you guys took a good time.
[01:00:37] Yeah, if we were compromised and we just try to get it back.
[01:00:40] Go out.
[01:00:41] If we could.
[01:00:42] We're percentage.
[01:00:43] You think you guys were compromised on the insert.
[01:00:45] Probably a lot more than we realized.
[01:00:47] Mm-hmm.
[01:00:48] Could they have had the LC watchers.
[01:00:50] And they would like to get us on the ground first.
[01:00:53] Particularly by the end of 68.
[01:00:55] Could they had the, uh, saw 100 killer teams that were out there.
[01:00:59] They're main mission was to find us.
[01:01:01] Yeah.
[01:01:02] I would think they would want to wait to you inserted.
[01:01:04] Right.
[01:01:05] Let's see you insert.
[01:01:06] Let the helicopter leave and then roll you up.
[01:01:09] There we go.
[01:01:10] So the insert usually would go well on less there days.
[01:01:15] Like we had that time in November where we could get shot out the primary secondary and the
[01:01:20] alternate.
[01:01:21] And the kingbies would go in.
[01:01:22] Bing, Bing, Bing.
[01:01:23] Go have lunch.
[01:01:24] They would refuel have a little lunch.
[01:01:26] There's another target.
[01:01:27] Go back and do it again.
[01:01:29] And often they would come back with bullholes.
[01:01:31] Could we, uh, Lily got shot out there.
[01:01:34] Does any of me activity here?
[01:01:35] We wouldn't go.
[01:01:36] You know, you're compromised.
[01:01:37] You want to try to get them to ground and get going with the mission.
[01:01:41] And we had several days like that back to back to back in the king.
[01:01:44] He's got beat up.
[01:01:46] But fortunately, nothing was got shot down.
[01:01:50] And the Sikorsky's just a beat.
[01:01:52] That's just a, that's just a horse of a aircraft.
[01:01:55] Yeah.
[01:01:56] Only had one door, but it had the windows.
[01:01:58] So whenever we're distracted, our,
[01:02:00] the first man in the chop would go to the, to the, uh, left window.
[01:02:04] You mean the port side?
[01:02:05] Port.
[01:02:06] That's why man.
[01:02:07] How we get the port confusing start.
[01:02:10] Unless I'm drinking port.
[01:02:11] And that's not me man, right there.
[01:02:14] And the left side.
[01:02:15] Yes.
[01:02:16] Is the bull kid secure?
[01:02:18] The bull kid is secure.
[01:02:19] There you go.
[01:02:20] You're all, baby.
[01:02:21] And then right here, we can interject.
[01:02:25] Um,
[01:02:29] sometimes they would be in the air.
[01:02:32] And there would be an emergency call for any helicopter,
[01:02:36] which he did in August of 1969.
[01:02:39] I forget what you were on, but this is that mission with Scarface.
[01:02:44] Mm-hmm.
[01:02:45] And Scarface was making a gun run.
[01:02:48] And they were working conjunction with the, uh,
[01:02:51] the hunter first airborne on their air mobile units.
[01:02:55] Mm-hmm.
[01:02:56] And there was, uh, like a river stream, and they were making a gun run.
[01:03:01] So the hunter first had gone down with the coba.
[01:03:03] They had coba then.
[01:03:05] Scarface came in with a regular gun ship.
[01:03:07] Got hit.
[01:03:08] As it went down, it flipped over to the door to crew members came out.
[01:03:13] It crashed upside down.
[01:03:15] They put out an emergency call on was there.
[01:03:19] He response to the call.
[01:03:21] The gunships went down.
[01:03:23] And they made a gun run on each side of the down upside down Scarface.
[01:03:29] He followed right in.
[01:03:31] And he picked up the two two crew members.
[01:03:36] He picked up with either the,
[01:03:38] No, I didn't pick up the air.
[01:03:39] Just spot them.
[01:03:40] You spot them first?
[01:03:41] Because I, uh, I, I flew along the stream to see what the, uh,
[01:03:46] I, I, I, I identified the people.
[01:03:50] And I spot two of them standing on the big ground about this, this table.
[01:03:55] And I called them like I'm now.
[01:03:58] And they, I keep, so they, they came down to pick them up.
[01:04:02] And I keep, I'd down the, uh, stream to look for other people.
[01:04:07] And I couldn't find any more.
[01:04:09] I come back.
[01:04:10] I came back to the, uh, to the down here with the subside down.
[01:04:16] And I couldn't see anyone, I couldn't see inside the cabin or our cockpit.
[01:04:21] So I used my ride wheel to turn it back.
[01:04:26] Hmm.
[01:04:27] You flipped over the he way.
[01:04:28] Well, under enemy fire.
[01:04:30] And I checked the entire, I just don't know what he's in there.
[01:04:34] So I thought I, I couldn't find any more.
[01:04:37] Then you have your crew chief hang out the door.
[01:04:39] Yeah.
[01:04:40] And then he was able to say that he saw people in the pile of the copouts.
[01:04:43] Uh, because this day, there's two, those are the two, uh, only two scar face marines,
[01:04:50] aviators that are still listed as MIA.
[01:04:53] Oh, that's true.
[01:04:54] I think it was the pilot and, and the crew chief, because the copilot got out.
[01:04:58] And they were able to rescue those two.
[01:05:01] And, uh, and the bubble of the front of the U.E.
[01:05:05] Where he put his, you know, the strut,
[01:05:07] and put the wheel in and lifted up the helicopter.
[01:05:10] And the crew chief goes and hangs out all while under enemy fire.
[01:05:14] So in August 2000, scar face honored on at a banquet in San Diego,
[01:05:22] to thank him for the heroic mission.
[01:05:24] And they helped get your award for the mission to correct.
[01:05:28] Was that part of that?
[01:05:29] Hmm, no yet.
[01:05:30] Not yet.
[01:05:31] But that was one mission where he was just flying.
[01:05:34] And they had to call for help.
[01:05:36] He responded to help scar face.
[01:05:38] Because scar face and the hundred first that protected Kingby's all the time.
[01:05:42] And you got shot up on that one, too.
[01:05:44] It wasn't like we're just another day in the park.
[01:05:47] He's helping the marines try to find those aviators.
[01:05:50] And I'm not sure how many hits he got.
[01:05:52] But just the fact that go down the stream,
[01:05:55] put the strut underneath the front nose had been knocked out and lifted up
[01:05:59] to give them a status report.
[01:06:02] Hmm.
[01:06:03] Just another day with the Kingby's.
[01:06:05] Hmm.
[01:06:06] Amazing.
[01:06:07] Yeah, that, you know, the reputation you guys had must have been just.
[01:06:13] I mean, that opening that I read from this,
[01:06:16] like it's just epic, you know,
[01:06:18] to hear the relief from Watkins,
[01:06:22] who hears who it is, like, okay, now we got a chance.
[01:06:25] Yeah.
[01:06:26] And that was always our golden moment.
[01:06:30] We were on a ground, you're in a firefight,
[01:06:32] and they say the Kingby's are coming.
[01:06:34] It's like, thank God for the Kingby's.
[01:06:37] On that mission, when you decide, hey, you know what?
[01:06:41] I'm not going to bring a co-pilot.
[01:06:43] I'm not going to bring a coup-cheaf.
[01:06:44] I'm just going to bring me and the gunner.
[01:06:47] That's it.
[01:06:48] That seems like that seems like a kind of crazy decision to make.
[01:06:53] Because we, with my wife, I know that the situation was too bad.
[01:06:58] And we have to go out to as fast as we can.
[01:07:02] So we can't bring them home.
[01:07:05] As fast as you can, meaning it would have taken time
[01:07:08] to round up the copilot?
[01:07:10] No.
[01:07:11] If one time when we was, they were put in a motor in a nettle.
[01:07:20] And I saw the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
[01:07:26] it's moke came out from the gun on the other side of the hill.
[01:07:30] And I saw, I, I ran to the my job and the climb up and couldn't get up.
[01:07:37] And when I was taking off, the group of copilot was late.
[01:07:41] And he just cried.
[01:07:43] So you didn't care if you had a copilot or not?
[01:07:46] No, I didn't.
[01:07:47] What was just like that mission later in the book with a chapter 20 when they had the night bright light.
[01:07:56] Yeah.
[01:07:57] Where the hatchet force had been in.
[01:07:59] They had severe casualties.
[01:08:01] They had all been expiltrated out.
[01:08:04] The last helicopter went in was again, you went in on strings to pick up the team leader from the hatchet force.
[01:08:11] They had a sergeant estate back in the couple indigenous troops.
[01:08:14] And the chopper got shot down the crest.
[01:08:18] And then that night they asked to go in and this is October 69.
[01:08:23] And limb black went in and on took them out.
[01:08:28] Again, with no crew.
[01:08:30] They took them out at night.
[01:08:32] Found the LZ.
[01:08:33] They thought they thought they were going to have to repell in.
[01:08:35] But somehow he's able to find an area big enough to get the king be in and went down.
[01:08:40] Lim black got in.
[01:08:41] Picked up the picked up the team member had a broken back.
[01:08:45] And the other survivors.
[01:08:47] And then he came back again at night.
[01:08:50] Picked up the team.
[01:08:51] I think this time they had the pull him out and strings.
[01:08:54] And then they pulled them out.
[01:08:56] Was there anyone else that could fly at night like you could?
[01:09:00] Yes, I'm moving.
[01:09:02] Was it your eyesight?
[01:09:04] Was it just the amount of hours that you had in the helicopter?
[01:09:07] Oh, you know, I can see.
[01:09:10] You know at that time they think they really have the sea model.
[01:09:21] We got from the army.
[01:09:26] We have the ADF, VHS and FM.
[01:09:28] But the D-Morrow.
[01:09:30] We got from the Marine.
[01:09:33] We have detected VHS, VHS, FM.
[01:09:40] But since the Titan and the VHS, we don't use the alphabet.
[01:09:48] We almost never use it. And it's too heavy.
[01:09:51] And it started in the tail boom.
[01:09:54] And it might cause each other heavy.
[01:09:56] Tell you what heavy.
[01:09:58] So I removed all of them.
[01:10:00] You said it was extra radios out.
[01:10:02] Yeah.
[01:10:03] We only needed the EWSF and the FM.
[01:10:09] That's all.
[01:10:10] And this leads me to a quick side bar.
[01:10:13] I don't know if this is you or not, but we had 68.
[01:10:18] The Kingbees had the Marines.
[01:10:20] One of them thraced the Kingbees to Fubai.
[01:10:23] So they had, I mean, just the race.
[01:10:25] A race, race.
[01:10:26] They had their own feet.
[01:10:27] This is just going from Denang, from the Air Base.
[01:10:30] And the Kingbees go, we'll race you to Fubai.
[01:10:32] So Kingbees versus what?
[01:10:34] The first is the Marine Corps, H34s.
[01:10:36] They still have some H34s.
[01:10:38] Oh, so it's just Kingbee versus Kingbee.
[01:10:40] Yeah.
[01:10:41] But Kingbee versus Marine Corps.
[01:10:42] They've got it with all the radios.
[01:10:44] So the Marines had to go around high-van pass and go over to South China Sea.
[01:10:49] Kingbees fly up and over.
[01:10:51] Kingbees.
[01:10:52] They get the Fubai win $100.
[01:10:54] I hope that was your job.
[01:10:57] That was one of our favorite Kingbees stories.
[01:10:59] The freshman always told that one.
[01:11:02] Man.
[01:11:04] And then who's your maintenance crews?
[01:11:07] Oh, yeah.
[01:11:08] Was it Vietnamese?
[01:11:09] Yes.
[01:11:10] Air Force.
[01:11:11] They were in the Air Base.
[01:11:13] They were in the military circles.
[01:11:15] And later on, we got the...
[01:11:21] Let's see.
[01:11:22] What was that?
[01:11:23] I said the Air Force.
[01:11:24] Again, L-O-O-O-D.
[01:11:27] This is American company.
[01:11:31] American company.
[01:11:33] Yeah.
[01:11:34] The main job is to refresh the park.
[01:11:40] I suppose to change the tail rotor.
[01:11:45] They make the whole set and put it up.
[01:11:49] This is a change in the whole set.
[01:11:52] But I don't trust them.
[01:11:55] You know why?
[01:11:57] Because one time after the change the tail rotor.
[01:12:05] And after I checked everything,
[01:12:10] I served to Kaya for the shopping kind of the engine.
[01:12:14] And the shopping kind of happened now.
[01:12:18] Up and down.
[01:12:19] And I just picked up the needle and cut off the engine.
[01:12:24] And the shopping was the craziest.
[01:12:26] I made it.
[01:12:27] It's stuck in the nose come up.
[01:12:29] And I go down and check.
[01:12:32] I checked and checked the tail.
[01:12:35] Oh my god.
[01:12:36] Why is it only one more other three breaks?
[01:12:38] And I remained.
[01:12:40] He's supposed to have a fault break.
[01:12:43] Oh, I don't have a break.
[01:12:44] One was not there.
[01:12:46] Until Roo was MIA.
[01:12:49] I got a wrong one.
[01:12:51] I got a wrong one.
[01:12:52] I got a wrong one.
[01:12:53] Yeah, we had an in Vietnam for the seals in Vietnam.
[01:12:58] They had a similar relationship
[01:13:00] that the saw guys had with the Kimbees with the sea wolves.
[01:13:05] And they had to kind of improvise.
[01:13:09] Improvise.
[01:13:10] And their maintenance, they were very proud of their maintenance crews.
[01:13:14] Because their maintenance crews would keep those aircraft running.
[01:13:17] And they would do whatever they had to do.
[01:13:19] And Rob cheating steel to keep the aircraft running.
[01:13:22] They were all ready.
[01:13:25] You know, use birds that had,
[01:13:27] forget they scrimmed up the aircraft themselves from somewhere.
[01:13:30] They're kind of left over aircraft.
[01:13:32] And so that it wasn't just the pilots and the gunners.
[01:13:36] And then on top of that, these incredibly hard work and sailors in the Navy that were making those birds able to fly on a moment's notice.
[01:13:43] Absolutely.
[01:13:44] But it's a very similar relationship for the saw guys and the Kingbee pilots as it is for the seals and the sea wolf guys.
[01:13:53] Oh, they're of legend.
[01:13:54] Absolutely.
[01:13:55] Yeah.
[01:13:56] And just the similar, you know, the attitude, you know what you said,
[01:13:59] Con, or on earlier when I asked you, you know, what, what do you think about when you need to go back into a spot where two Kingbees have already shot down.
[01:14:13] It then shot down.
[01:14:14] And your response was I want to get my friends out.
[01:14:17] That's it.
[01:14:18] That's, that's the a spree to core that is just unmatched, you know, and having that relationship with.
[01:14:24] And just that that warrior brotherhood is.
[01:14:30] So there's a very human side like there's a few times that we could pull that right at last light.
[01:14:36] We go to the Kingbee pilots say, hey, come on, I'll buy you a drink and captain 10 and say, I'm going home to my family or captain two on.
[01:14:44] No, thank you, but I'm going to go home.
[01:14:46] I'll be back tomorrow.
[01:14:47] You buy me drinks tomorrow.
[01:14:49] And they come back and he had time and couldn't clubhouse have a drink before we go on an exc mission.
[01:14:54] There's just amazing.
[01:14:55] So you had this whole, yeah, that's crazy.
[01:14:58] That dichotomy.
[01:14:59] Yeah.
[01:14:59] There with their, to fly home to her family.
[01:15:02] She's.
[01:15:03] And they always came for us.
[01:15:04] They never, you know, we never had them say no for us.
[01:15:07] And they have our teams.
[01:15:09] Yeah, I know that's that's definitely something to think about because Americans, we are always fighting in someone else's country.
[01:15:16] Right?
[01:15:17] We can go home.
[01:15:18] We can go home to employment.
[01:15:19] That's it.
[01:15:20] You know, there's no family.
[01:15:21] What were you married during this time or were you, did you have kids during this time?
[01:15:26] Did you have your, your brother?
[01:15:27] Yeah, I, I'm out, I'm out in, uh, 1969.
[01:15:33] And I don't remember what, if I was a set down before it or the after it.
[01:15:42] I don't remember.
[01:15:43] I said, I said the last time.
[01:15:45] I was like, let me, let me.
[01:15:49] And you must remember, uh, you know, going on a mission, getting your aircraft shot up and then going home to your wife and saying, hi, honey, I'm home.
[01:15:55] Yeah.
[01:15:56] Mm.
[01:15:57] Yeah.
[01:15:58] Every time I, the, I was shot.
[01:16:03] But they, they, they, they, I think most of the, like many times they miss me.
[01:16:12] Yeah.
[01:16:16] One time, I feel back from, uh, hair side, back to Kwang Shih.
[01:16:19] And, uh, where was the very back?
[01:16:22] And we flew all, all, all about three in the team along the hillside.
[01:16:30] And, suddenly, this, this, this, somebody, a, a long line of, I kind of, I kind of like it.
[01:16:39] Right, right, all, all of, all of my, my year.
[01:16:43] And I, I look, I look up, I look up hill.
[01:16:47] And I saw, the, a lot of NVA, you know, in the Shivua.
[01:16:55] Mm.
[01:16:56] Yeah.
[01:16:57] The front lines, the sheet, the second line, the knee and the third line, the stand.
[01:17:03] Just like that.
[01:17:04] And they were on the hill.
[01:17:06] And they're shooting at me.
[01:17:08] Wow.
[01:17:09] And, uh, and I, I, I told my Kusi.
[01:17:14] Shoot the back shoot back shoot like that.
[01:17:17] And I saw the, uh, trigger out, you know, the, you know, the round, the, the, the, the whole,
[01:17:23] the, the, the, uh, in front of the front line of them.
[01:17:27] I don't know, if they, if they, they hit the,
[01:17:30] I know them or not.
[01:17:31] But because I was the last one in the fry and then time.
[01:17:35] And so I just get primed, wait to pointy, and wait to pointy, I count, I found 49 holes.
[01:17:46] He's flying from K-Son where we had F-LB-3 who had pick-up teams on launch for targets from
[01:17:51] K-Son.
[01:17:52] And of course when you flew in the K-Son, this is during the offensive.
[01:17:57] So you know that was it.
[01:17:58] So he flies from that hot zone flying to Kwong Tree, which is, quote, a secure base in
[01:18:04] route, there's three lines of VNVA just practicing target, hit them 49 times.
[01:18:11] Yeah, 49 rounds.
[01:18:17] What happened the last time you got shot down?
[01:18:21] The last time because shot down was in Budapest, north of Banyatwai.
[01:18:33] And I, in so-so team at K-Son, when I K-Son, when you're in service for a long time,
[01:18:48] in K-Son, you have some feeling.
[01:18:51] I go to say six feeling.
[01:18:55] And I feel something wrong on the ground.
[01:18:58] Yeah, now in the original example, so I'm from 1500 feet, I go down to check it.
[01:19:05] I had about 500 feet, they sat the suit at me.
[01:19:11] And this is this when you're trying to extract them or is this during the insert?
[01:19:15] I'm not going to fall.
[01:19:16] He's coming back from.
[01:19:18] Okay, so after you drop them off, you're halfway home and you decide you're going to go look
[01:19:22] on the ground.
[01:19:23] Yeah.
[01:19:24] And you start getting shot.
[01:19:25] Yeah.
[01:19:26] And I got mad.
[01:19:30] I said, I'm going to extract fire and I skipped the line of fire.
[01:19:36] And I said, man, I said, this is my land and I take care of all of my
[01:19:43] you could get your dad to suit and me.
[01:19:45] So I come back and suit and I got hit again and the shot for cut fire.
[01:19:53] They're around hit the fuel tank and then the fuel ignites.
[01:19:58] And the fire comes from the fuel tank into the cabin.
[01:20:02] He's at 500 feet trying to keep the air,
[01:20:06] create a stable to land while on fire.
[01:20:12] And I was on top of the frame.
[01:20:15] The frames come from the camera from the cabin to the cockpit.
[01:20:20] And if I land right or right or the subway around there,
[01:20:30] it would be okay, but I don't want it to be a cut.
[01:20:37] So I could find it like a two-wheel.
[01:20:40] So your planes on your helicopter is on fire.
[01:20:44] You could cry.
[01:20:45] You could land.
[01:20:46] But you don't want to get caught.
[01:20:49] No.
[01:20:50] Because that's going to be hard.
[01:20:52] And I tried to get back to Buddha and the frame took the frame keep burning.
[01:21:01] And one time it was so hot that I left all of the control.
[01:21:11] It's quite a good and cycle.
[01:21:13] I left it.
[01:21:14] I keep my hand in my chest.
[01:21:18] When I left the cycle,
[01:21:22] then the job started to dive down.
[01:21:26] And I saw the round coming up.
[01:21:31] And I just tell the thing in my head,
[01:21:36] and his arm is over.
[01:21:39] But when it comes close to the three-top,
[01:21:43] the instinct of survival,
[01:21:48] pushed me to grab the cycle and pull back.
[01:21:52] And the job was diving down.
[01:21:55] And it's just literally when I pulled the cycle back so hard.
[01:21:59] And it came up.
[01:22:01] I thought that the men wrote the wood to mouth, but he needed.
[01:22:05] And I saw it.
[01:22:07] And I left it.
[01:22:09] And the job was diving again.
[01:22:12] So it's like a scene line in this guy.
[01:22:20] And finally I make a glass landing in the open area.
[01:22:28] So the handles were so hot that you couldn't hold onto them.
[01:22:34] But then at the last minute, survival instinct,
[01:22:38] you knew what you had to do in order to get some kind of a landing.
[01:22:41] So you just grabbed those.
[01:22:44] And when I saw the LZ,
[01:22:47] I was flying at the 80, 80, not a combine.
[01:22:51] And it was 90, not a combine.
[01:22:55] And I moved this cycle to the right,
[01:22:59] and pushed the right pedal all the way down.
[01:23:03] And so the job at the 90, not a combine.
[01:23:08] But 360 degree.
[01:23:11] So quick, I thought the key, the tail boom came off.
[01:23:15] But he didn't.
[01:23:16] And it started to sail around.
[01:23:18] And I touched it down very smooth.
[01:23:21] And it still runs as still running.
[01:23:25] So he did three and on the wheel came off.
[01:23:28] And the blade came off.
[01:23:31] And when he stole, I grabbed the seatbelt lock.
[01:23:37] And I pulled it.
[01:23:40] But in September, I kept pulling.
[01:23:43] My finger opened it.
[01:23:46] And for three times, I used my left hand.
[01:23:49] I left elbow to hit the buckle.
[01:23:52] And the legs, the lock.
[01:23:56] And I grabbed the handle of the window.
[01:23:59] Because when I make the cross, it ran.
[01:24:02] And the window ran forward.
[01:24:05] And then forward, move forward and close it.
[01:24:08] So I grabbed the handle of the window.
[01:24:11] Pull it back.
[01:24:12] But it happened.
[01:24:13] I liked it.
[01:24:14] I just sit down.
[01:24:15] I grabbed it.
[01:24:16] But the finger opened.
[01:24:17] But couldn't hold the handle.
[01:24:20] Because the skin was burning.
[01:24:22] So I used my shoulder to hit the window.
[01:24:27] And abruptly, the window out.
[01:24:29] I just went down.
[01:24:31] And so from the down, the arm of the material was came off.
[01:24:37] Or was burned out.
[01:24:39] I sat the zipper.
[01:24:41] And the little part was still burning.
[01:24:45] And when I rolled down on the grass, the wet grass.
[01:24:49] And to put it off.
[01:24:52] And after it was off, I couldn't stand up.
[01:24:58] And my crew chips ran by and grabbed me up.
[01:25:03] And then we did the guide me to the rescue shop.
[01:25:07] You know, my three, number three came there.
[01:25:11] So then you get on the number three kingby.
[01:25:14] They get you out of there.
[01:25:16] And obviously you go straight to the hospital.
[01:25:19] They brought me back to the medical area of the cop in the hospital.
[01:25:25] And I stayed there until 11 am to next morning.
[01:25:40] One kingby pilot, one kingby pilot from Denny,
[01:25:46] three of me, with the omega-nabrize, abruptly to a third few years ago.
[01:25:56] And that's where I stayed for eight months.
[01:26:01] And what was that process like those next eight months?
[01:26:05] Oh, they, uh, amputating my hand and making sheets of thin clay on my life.
[01:26:13] Because my life, uh, when I was in the hospital.
[01:26:17] And the day the doctor, doctor Smith, he amputated my hand.
[01:26:25] I asked him how about my life.
[01:26:28] He said that he didn't know until after the, after the operation.
[01:26:35] Did they amputate both your hands at the same time?
[01:26:38] Yes.
[01:26:42] And then what was the, what was the plan from there?
[01:26:46] What happened after that?
[01:26:48] After that I do back and four or three, before eight months.
[01:26:53] No, the treatment, the medical treatment, about four or five months.
[01:26:57] But after that I do make the form of two years with two years.
[01:27:01] For the doctor to check it.
[01:27:04] And after that, after all the treatment, the surgery back to the, with Luis Hospital.
[01:27:14] And at some point, I know you had a brother that was a, a, he won pilot, right?
[01:27:19] He's, a, he won pilot.
[01:27:21] And what happened with him?
[01:27:23] He was on the, uh, a nine to five months.
[01:27:27] And it was missing.
[01:27:30] Yes, all right, we know.
[01:27:32] And 95 misses were across the fence also, right?
[01:27:35] No.
[01:27:36] No.
[01:27:37] He was missing about about 30 kilometers north of, uh, not what they need.
[01:27:45] Ten, both in ten.
[01:27:49] And then what was it like when the, when the war started to kind of wind down for, you know,
[01:27:55] America leaving and the communist are going to take over.
[01:27:58] What was that, what was that like for you?
[01:28:01] Um, um, at the end of, uh, of April, April, April, 1995.
[01:28:17] Yeah.
[01:28:18] One was going to came to a pilot team to say to see me and, he, he, he was my, co-fi.
[01:28:25] This is an April of 1995.
[01:28:27] Oh, 1975.
[01:28:32] Oh, 1975.
[01:28:33] Okay.
[01:28:34] Yeah.
[01:28:35] Got it.
[01:28:35] And, uh, he asked me, uh, what we are going to do?
[01:28:40] And I say, I really don't know what to do now.
[01:28:43] Is everything myself?
[01:28:45] Did you, I mean, obviously, did you feel like the, when the communist took over that you were just
[01:28:53] doomed because clearly you were a veteran that had fought for South Vietnam.
[01:28:59] It seems like you, you, you, you must have felt like you would be doomed if they
[01:29:04] completed the take over a Vietnam.
[01:29:07] No, I don't say so.
[01:29:09] No.
[01:29:12] The, uh, the thing is that we, we were a desperate, because we lost the war.
[01:29:18] There's nothing.
[01:29:25] And, uh, on the, uh, let's see, 30, uh, April, 30, 1975.
[01:29:38] I was on board over one of the ship.
[01:29:40] I still remember the, uh, the sea challenges.
[01:29:46] And, uh, when I heard the, uh, it was off, uh, of Wukongtong.
[01:29:51] So you were on an American ship?
[01:29:53] I don't know which is.
[01:29:55] The ship is in the country.
[01:29:56] Yeah, sea challenges.
[01:29:58] And, uh, when I heard the, uh, announcement of a surrender from Zeno Loming,
[01:30:05] oh, my, uh, my tears just came out.
[01:30:10] And I want to do them over the war.
[01:30:15] And, uh, when I look back and I see my toolkit, and he's told me.
[01:30:22] He's told me from the B.L.
[01:30:27] So then what happened?
[01:30:28] I mean, now you've got your two kids, your, your, your,
[01:30:31] In Vietnam, the South is surrendered.
[01:30:34] What, what, what happened then?
[01:30:37] And we go back to, uh, go back home and then wait for what happened.
[01:30:45] And, um, in, uh,
[01:30:51] Surah, yeah, Surah is six.
[01:30:55] I, I, I, I, I, 75.
[01:30:58] I was in, uh, yeah, they put me in the, uh, radio station camp.
[01:31:03] In a re-education camp.
[01:31:05] Yeah.
[01:31:07] What was that experience like?
[01:31:09] Yes.
[01:31:11] This is just talked about, uh,
[01:31:15] propaganda, uh, propaganda, uh,
[01:31:19] and the thing is that the people who, they, they,
[01:31:24] they want to, they want us to go to class every day.
[01:31:28] And we have to go to class every day as they skip talk,
[01:31:31] but they guy who tell a total, total,
[01:31:35] this is the level of normalized.
[01:31:40] Oh, my God.
[01:31:42] This is likely, maybe, well, the class is already great to me.
[01:31:47] So you're being re-educated by a third grade.
[01:31:50] Yeah, right.
[01:31:51] And they keep, and all of them talking the same way.
[01:31:55] Mm-hmm.
[01:31:56] This is like the machine.
[01:31:57] It's just indoctrination.
[01:31:59] Yeah, indoctrination.
[01:32:00] Yeah.
[01:32:01] How long did, and how long were you at the re-education camp for?
[01:32:04] I was there for, um, uh,
[01:32:06] zoolite, I don't know, from, uh, zool, to, uh, August.
[01:32:11] And then how did you get out of the re-education camp?
[01:32:13] Well, one time I was, uh, doing out with my, uh,
[01:32:17] the other prisoners to, uh, create up as a, uh, the camp.
[01:32:22] And I was pulling the, uh, bubble-wide with them.
[01:32:27] And, uh, one of the, uh, one of the guys they, uh,
[01:32:32] at the, uh, and they told me that, uh,
[01:32:34] you keep, uh, um, okay.
[01:32:35] And we have the inspection team, um, from Saigon to Camsey.
[01:32:40] Hm-hmm.
[01:32:41] Mm-hmm.
[01:32:42] And, uh, when I, I saw that, uh, I hear that.
[01:32:46] I, I don't know, I, I don't know.
[01:32:48] I don't know, I don't, I don't, I, I didn't, uh,
[01:32:51] pull the bubble, why, I didn't know.
[01:32:53] I just came over, armed with my fire.
[01:32:55] and one of the guys, one of the guys in the inspection team he came by my side and
[01:33:06] asked my name and my my three ID and after that he said okay he said okay he said
[01:33:17] I'm working with your friend and he left he came working away and about 50 meters away
[01:33:26] he pulled out the notebook and stuff like something I don't know but one week later
[01:33:35] the station was made from longsaw to swim out and at the swim out there I slated
[01:33:46] for another week and one day they called they they announced on the radio that
[01:33:58] your people happen they know people prepare to have their family to pick you
[01:34:06] your people back home so that was it then you got out of the camp yeah and so now it's still
[01:34:15] 1975 and then what happens then what do you start doing then we leave that to leave it
[01:34:24] right now it's after 75 you know after the one day they take you over to the
[01:34:32] South and as a light was visible you know the people who everything is a stamp
[01:34:45] foot stamp everything stamp and one month maybe each of them each people are
[01:34:56] the can buy maybe 100 grams of meat 100 grams of meat a month maybe
[01:35:07] on sometimes they don't but it's a meat but in fact it can they can even
[01:35:13] give you either the height or the fat or anything and I still remember one time one
[01:35:27] of the guy who worked in the this week he wrote a bicycle to around the
[01:35:36] the the street near my house near my house I said that the face go people go to my face
[01:35:45] and my my my my son he was that he said 75 76 he was nine seven or nine I know of him
[01:35:58] he just grabbed the mask that runs to the mother so he can he can buy the the first one
[01:36:03] but he can let it reach for that the selling place there will be rotten fish only
[01:36:14] only run fish yeah so you lived in that regime for how many years how many years
[01:36:22] did you have to live a flight this from 75 to I don't know if you might
[01:36:31] exactly what you were 84 and you and you tried to escape a few times yeah I did the first time
[01:36:41] my trip to escape in my son and we got up how was your first escape attempt what did you do
[01:36:50] I asked my name he see and see has some some information from other people
[01:36:58] and so we every time we had to pay and the first time we got cut and at a
[01:37:11] non-gun way south to come to south yeah and we were imprisoned
[01:37:20] so they put you in your son in prison yeah you know the the prison in non-gun
[01:37:28] is just a case maybe wouldn't case not a blizzard about 1.5 the side of this room they made
[01:37:42] the form the so maybe 20 feet by 20 feet or something not even not even that and you know the
[01:37:51] the the three in the swam in the swarm the roguer in the swarm yeah the cut it and then make
[01:38:00] make it and just like in case just a cage just a case and the coba the tough with a
[01:38:10] mobile why how are you planning to escape what was the plan were you going to go by boat
[01:38:15] were you going to walk the other thing we said was my boat by boat yeah four cores like a lot of
[01:38:21] canals water much water yeah very few roads and how long were you in this cage for with your son
[01:38:30] maybe a couple months and they tested but they said thanks for us to uh to a
[01:38:37] um sub-cham sub-cham you know the case you know in the num can there were a lot of mosquito
[01:38:57] not mosquito and every day we have only one you know they uh type of beer in the
[01:39:05] yeah the bottle by this is me and every day only one one bottle of water for one day for
[01:39:15] only everything for months you're like that so the cage with barboy on the top
[01:39:20] and the mosquito at about five o'clock five p.m. we have to see the
[01:39:31] mosquito net if not a day just it is a swam mosquito it's like a bee and I've
[01:39:47] a couple months we've been more more to somewhere more to was it another prison
[01:39:58] another prison how long were you in total prison for and why did they eventually let you out
[01:40:04] or how did you get out eventually oh my family and the other people who
[01:40:13] organized the escape they get in touch with the local and every time they one
[01:40:24] I say I went my son we were in this we have to pay a lot of six or seven the six or seven
[01:40:33] hours I would go six or seven ounces of gold no no no no out oh I see uh point of
[01:40:41] six or point seven hours we would go right and where would you find gold they like gold
[01:40:48] the time I was I got out in the dump can the police is not in the put it is
[01:41:01] in my pocket and found a ring golden ring and he says the ticket and put in his pocket
[01:41:09] and my uh pipe I was he said he take it out and smoke and put in his pocket too
[01:41:19] that's when you got caught the second time oh the first time you lost your gold ring you lost your
[01:41:24] pack of smokes and then you tried to escape a couple more times yeah another two times but
[01:41:30] after the first time I saw that my son is getting bigger I don't want him to be a son I took to
[01:41:40] be calm to service it by the way to the NBA so I let him go by himself so you're
[01:41:48] son escape by himself did you make it yeah he made it in 87 and me and he like that time he was 16, 60 and
[01:41:58] 70 so you are facing either you get either your son escapes or your son is going to have to
[01:42:03] actually serve in the NBA who you had fought against for however long six years right
[01:42:08] and after my son I have a
[01:42:16] a mask and I brought my my daughters to escape another two times I got caught too
[01:42:25] and was it punishment as severe the second two times oh the second time he said it was okay
[01:42:34] but after we we can get out of a couple months after we pay about a point six a point seven
[01:42:42] how was it you go where do you find gold oh luckily that my my my my my sister
[01:42:52] my who passed away the early this year he sent money to help my mom
[01:42:59] where was your sister I sister you find she was in France so she was able to somehow send
[01:43:07] money to your mom she didn't send money she sent medicine medicine and I sell it I
[01:43:15] said okay you were not having this there's no no medicine you get down and during that time
[01:43:21] to your father was killed right my final lie in 63 63 63
[01:43:29] okay sorry yeah I was I was the F was the day you joined the Air Force yeah but
[01:43:35] you're by the way my father that my father was away that day
[01:43:42] so how did you finally how did you finally get out of Vietnam and get to America
[01:43:46] oh I see in 88 then I heard that the H.O. program I'm not a qualified project
[01:44:00] that program you say H.O. H.O. yeah humanitarian organization currently passed in
[01:44:06] yeah and it's it's helping the people who was in who was in service or who was in prison
[01:44:14] in the company's prison for one and two years can come up I'd like to come here
[01:44:22] and how did you not qualify for that because at the total time I spent
[01:44:28] prison it's only two and half year well see need to dispense more time and
[01:44:32] prison you can you imagine that after all the service could have been
[01:44:37] and so I thought that maybe I would have I might be living Vietnam forever
[01:44:46] so I prepare for my what I'm I plan to what I'm going to do to lead
[01:44:56] but at that time the
[01:45:00] side of it means the
[01:45:06] first association is the
[01:45:09] the mayor of Masuoka he was the
[01:45:15] Air Force reticulano so this is an American Air Force retired in Masuoka
[01:45:20] and he was working with the San Jose
[01:45:23] he's now Vietnamese Air Force Association yeah and he the
[01:45:32] South Vietnamese Air Force Association asked me to help me I seem to help me and
[01:45:41] he went to Vietnam and South Vietnam and I he asked me to bring on my paper that I had
[01:45:48] I brought to him and when he saw the DFC and he said
[01:45:56] when he saw the what the DFC no the FC this thing was right close
[01:46:01] what's that American award all the DSC got it got it got it
[01:46:06] or the DSF foreign cars got it okay yeah yeah I know I got it I I misunderstood
[01:46:11] okay so he saw that he saw that and but he didn't say anything but later on he said that
[01:46:16] he told me that he didn't believe it because usually the DFC supposed to give
[01:46:23] to a baby award to the American college so after he looked all kind of
[01:46:29] a on my paper and he said that he would try and represent but he's not guaranteed
[01:46:36] under percent
[01:46:38] and he came back to state and he called one of the guy who worked in the
[01:46:51] archive, National Archives and the that guy was he was working with him in the military
[01:47:01] when he was cornered and the guy was then second lit
[01:47:07] down on the corner second lit in the corner okay like a lieutenant corner yeah a little
[01:47:15] the corner and so I had and they found the DFC and the FC and the FR are the
[01:47:26] writer and the paper and that the FC and they managed to
[01:47:38] the National Inquiry the magazine was quite bad yeah they they found the
[01:47:50] before I did I I escaped okay and one pilot came to see me
[01:48:00] he's a so-liner and he's a squad commander he's a molyson and they came
[01:48:10] the National Inquiry but they everything that they took the camera to all year to see me
[01:48:16] wow and so then they set up that program to get you back here so what year did you finally get back
[01:48:25] or what did you get to America? let's see I came here in 1994 1994 yeah
[01:48:31] right in Nashville what family did you leave back in Vietnam? when I left Vietnam my mom still
[01:48:39] I told my nephew the descendant of my my missing more brother to take care of to come over
[01:48:52] I leave it so I can go and I came here in I left Vietnam
[01:49:00] on January 10, 1994 and I came at least 12 years here to on then in 2015, 1994 and then
[01:49:17] what happened? did you have any family here did you know anybody?
[01:49:21] no I first I leave the same house with the the chip of the the south of the video for such a season
[01:49:30] there okay yeah I leave it for six months after that I moved out and then did you get a job? what did you
[01:49:40] do? no yeah at that time my my my my son and my brother and my son and my daughter work
[01:49:46] at this apartment okay yeah and when you made it out so you had your son and your daughter with you when
[01:49:52] you made it out my my my son came here well that's right so he was already here that's right
[01:49:59] but when I came here in 1994 my daughter came with me got it yeah so your son and your
[01:50:07] daughter were here or your son was already here your daughter came with you and now they're working
[01:50:13] and started to figure out life in America how big of a shock was that to you? I did the
[01:50:20] last time I was I was sad because they hope I do nothing waiting for the what is going to happen
[01:50:30] because at that time they were trying to catch a shield and see for me so as I can
[01:50:38] I started so they can keep me here and it's a lot of a petition at that time I
[01:50:46] could not even have a head as with a little of a petition
[01:50:51] you know right and in the sixth the 1996 I got a citizen
[01:51:04] in the United States you got your citizenship here in America. She's then you went to
[01:51:10] set the clear fire department yeah I look for that I don't know after that I I go to school
[01:51:18] for the accounting class and after one year I got the
[01:51:24] is up in the Santa Clara fire department for almost three years and then I ran out of
[01:51:33] the budgets and I was there and I then brought for six months and again the others are up in the
[01:51:43] I-R-I-S. Oh you worked for the IRS? Yeah. Okay well suppose we'll have to figure that out. Yeah
[01:51:49] he's one of them he goes from a good guy a hero to the IRS and how long were you at the IRS for
[01:51:57] a form of 2000 to 2013. Totally news and that was it after that you retired? Yeah
[01:52:07] and what are you doing now? Sleep and watch TV. No more prairie fire emergencies but
[01:52:16] at first I was it was really morning I tried to look for the part-time job but I couldn't
[01:52:27] put the part-time job so then you just had it you just hear retirement now. You look for a
[01:52:35] part-time job that wasn't anything. I don't care what I want to know what's anything
[01:52:41] this is maybe about four hours six hours a day. You're ready to work? Yeah.
[01:52:49] Ready to work. Sick of watching TV. And you're up in this area here in the San Jose area.
[01:52:58] Yeah, San Jose. She's the day I came here. Okay because we might be able to find a job for you.
[01:53:02] Somebody probably looking for someone. Got it. Yeah. What the work on that? Yeah. Yeah.
[01:53:07] Oh, tilt. Did I miss anything? I mean well let me rephrase that. I know we missed. I know there's
[01:53:13] all kinds of stories. Is there anything else that you want to bring up? No I think those are the
[01:53:17] major stories. Just the documented ones. Indeed. Because that's one thing I mean when you talk
[01:53:23] when we talk when we broke down your 3000 combat flight hours. I mean we could probably we
[01:53:29] you could talk for you know 3000 hours explaining what happened on all those missions. So
[01:53:35] I mean just unbelievable that you were able to get through all that crazy.
[01:53:44] On my friend he told me that I they couldn't believe that I still live with the due to date.
[01:53:52] For sure. For sure. For sure. So tell anything else though. No I we covered the major points
[01:54:01] there and you know just like that one time with the Marines need help here he comes he just went
[01:54:08] there under fire and so many times his kingbees got shot up. I mean 40 50 rounds of the holes
[01:54:16] of this. Just amazing stories and the men were just so many of our saw guys that are live today.
[01:54:25] Thanks to the kingbeepiles period and of course the other avidus but in our case we had that
[01:54:31] direct relationship with them. There were primary assets they put us in they always came to pull
[01:54:36] us out. The pat walk is thing you let off with just a classic moment just captured the essence
[01:54:42] of that underground intense firefight and here comes the kingbee. Not only did you come he
[01:54:49] settles into a bomb career so you can get on the hill up there and go home.
[01:54:52] On anything else you want to add? Well I'll tell you what it's just been an honor to talk to you
[01:55:05] and thank you so much for coming on and more important thank you for your service and your sacrifice.
[01:55:12] It's we won't forget it and you took so many risks. You took so many risks and you paid
[01:55:19] such a price in order to save your comrades and your brother's norms and to be there for the
[01:55:25] guys on the ground and we appreciate that and we appreciate the fact that you stood the line
[01:55:32] to defend freedom in the world. So thank you. And during the secret war the kingbees were
[01:55:39] another secret that nobody knew about. And so I thank you for doing this to get the story about
[01:55:45] our heroic on any other kingbee pilots. Unfortunately many of whom we've lost. We buried captain
[01:55:53] two on two months ago three months ago and our secret war had its secrets and one of the gems
[01:56:01] one of the great assets were our kingbees and we slew to every day and their brothers and arms.
[01:56:06] So thank you for doing that, Jaka. It's an honor. We appreciate it. Thank you.
[01:56:10] Thank you. And with that tilt and on have left the building and once again we are left with an
[01:56:22] example of what human beings can do, what human beings can face, what human beings can overcome.
[01:56:28] Pretty amazing. Pretty humbling. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:56:45] Feel like we can do more. Yeah. I mean that's pretty much the general kind of overall consensus
[01:56:53] as I feel like we can do more. Yeah. Feel like we need to do more. Feel like I need to do more.
[01:56:58] Anyways, I don't want to bring you over. Yeah. Like the group me and your team and team.
[01:57:04] Process of trying to do more. Because I think sometimes I think you feel like maybe you're good
[01:57:08] with what you're doing. Sure. Well, yeah. I don't know. Maybe maybe not. But yes, I think so. So
[01:57:13] you know, he mentioned and we all know that he lost both his hands and then later on join the
[01:57:21] fire department. So he was in the count and met the fire department. But yes, he's in the fire department
[01:57:26] with no hands. Yeah. And by the way, I mean this is he lost his hands, both hands. And I asked him
[01:57:33] about it. He's like, oh yeah, well then I went to. He was no like there was no hesitation in carrying
[01:57:41] on with what he was going to do. He's just going to whatever I guess he's going to get hooks and he's
[01:57:45] going to carry on. That's what he's doing. And then at the end, which kind of gives you an insight
[01:57:52] to like how he's thinking where he's like, yeah, I'm like retired and I kind of just made a joke like
[01:57:58] I just sleep and watch TV and he's like, man, I'm kind of looking for a part that I'm job like
[01:58:02] you've got to go do some stuff. You know what I was thinking about? If somebody told you a story
[01:58:07] where they said, listen, here's what's going on. I was in a helicopter. I was flying the helicopter
[01:58:11] and the controls of the helicopter were burning and they were on fire. But and I couldn't hold on
[01:58:19] to him. So I just let him go. And then right as we were about to crash, I just grabbed onto him and
[01:58:25] I steered the plane, I just steered the aircraft, the helicopter and I got it to land and we lived.
[01:58:31] But those those controls were so hot. It was crazy. Okay. So if you heard that,
[01:58:37] you would think one level of the word hot, right? And there's no way that the level of hot that
[01:58:44] could be explained to you is so hot that you lose both of your hands from voluntarily grabbing the controls.
[01:58:51] Like that does. And then as you're trying to get your seat belt off your hands or just ripping apart,
[01:58:55] falling apart. Yeah. So yeah, and that opening, that opening that I read from on the ground with the
[01:59:04] book on the ground by John Stracker Meyer, it's just, it's crazy to think, you know, you, oh,
[01:59:09] guess what? There's going to be two dangerous. So I'm not going to take a co-pilot or a crew chief.
[01:59:16] All's I'm going to bring is a door gunner, me. That's it. That's what we're doing. That's another
[01:59:23] level. Yeah. By the way, you're sitting on a base like warm, whatever. I don't know, cool. Maybe
[01:59:30] you're an AC. You just had a piece of chicken or something. Like life is pretty good, right?
[01:59:37] And I'm to mention these guys in Vietnam, they're like have to go home at night, like till we'll
[01:59:41] say, hey, oh, cool. I'm going to go home now. Yeah. Because I think when I was on deployment,
[01:59:48] I just put all that family stuff out of my brain. Yeah. I wasn't thinking about my wife. Yeah.
[01:59:52] I was in just the deployment mode. I think it'll be really hard to go. Oh, deployment mode. Well,
[02:00:00] singing ballet recital with the child. Yeah. You know, they say, hey, don't bring your work home or what,
[02:00:07] you know, what's that saying? Yeah. Right. That's not the level right there. It's another level.
[02:00:12] Check. So yes, we can do more. So yeah. All right. Well, keep yourself. Keep us. We're keeping
[02:00:19] ourselves in the game. We're all getting older. We're not getting younger. But that way. Maybe some
[02:00:26] of us are okay. Okay. So you're just going back in time. We've added video. There's this thing you
[02:00:33] can do that freezes the frame. Right. So that's kind of what you you you you feel that you're doing.
[02:00:40] Freezes the frame. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Well, when you're working out anyway, you need supplementation.
[02:00:45] That's undeniable. I guess you could deny it if you wanted to nonetheless supplementate that be a mistake.
[02:00:52] I think you'd be a mistake, yes, sir. So anyway, joc was supplement is called jockel fuel. So these
[02:00:58] supplements include, but not limited to joint warfare for your joints, super cruel oil. Also for your joints.
[02:01:03] General health. Some omega 3's in there. These are important. What I'm saying. Also discipline,
[02:01:11] discipline, go. Three versions. Now three versions of the discipline powder. Do you drink powder every
[02:01:17] day in the morning? Kind of yes. Matter of fact yes. And so I was thinking about this. So in the morning,
[02:01:22] I drink coffee. Am I coffee drink? I don't know. Maybe maybe not. I don't drink coffee every single
[02:01:28] morning. But that's like as far as morning routines go. Coffee's not part of your routine. I know
[02:01:35] that. Definitely not part of my routine. But is the discipline? Could you get a workout, right? So you take the
[02:01:39] discipline every morning before the workout? No. I take it before I work work. After the workout.
[02:01:45] Yeah, when I wake up in the morning, I don't drink anything. I just drink water. Water, but go. Yeah,
[02:01:49] that's a good one. All right, interesting. That is interesting. I just don't know. Now I'm going to
[02:01:53] when I'm going to the juts on the way there on drinking discipline for your troops. I'll dare to
[02:02:01] three scams actually. Well, sometimes actually four. There you go. But nonetheless, and then, um, yes.
[02:02:09] So there is part of version. Also capsule version. Cool. That's when you're on the go. And then the
[02:02:15] energy drink healthy energy drink version. See, this is a good one. So in this far as energy drinks go,
[02:02:26] like we say, you can have an energy drink, but if even saying energy drink kind of brings along
[02:02:33] the stigma of the energy drink. Definitely discipline. Go. Energy drink RTD does not have that stigma.
[02:02:40] Because it is factually healthy. Truth. Truth. True. Anyway, sometimes you look at me, you want me to
[02:02:47] give you backup. No, on your statement. No. And I just got that look, then you were made a complete
[02:02:52] talk. Right. So you're nothing else from me to add. Yes, sir. No, it's good for you. A lot of times
[02:02:58] I look at you because like, sometimes you'll have this look like, oh, let me, like, you remember
[02:03:05] something. Yeah, like you want to, you know, and I just want to give you that opportunity. Oh, thank
[02:03:09] you. Thank you. I always have a nice, thank you for the opportunity. Just say sometimes. Sometimes
[02:03:14] you say some good stuff. Anyway, yeah. Also, Mark, these are in the form protein, protein in the form
[02:03:20] to dessert. Six and one, half dozen the other. Yes, sir. Either way, we do know this. We're getting
[02:03:25] something that's tasty and good for us. Good for us. And so you get to essentially just say it's good.
[02:03:30] It's good because that covers all bases. Good for you. Good tasting. It depends on what kind of
[02:03:37] good, because there's a lot of kinds of good and for good various things. You've been doing a lot of
[02:03:42] work a lot of lawyer activity with me lately about well, it depends on what you mean by. Yeah,
[02:03:47] because it's interesting. Yeah, because you can't just blanket statement a lot of stuff. Like,
[02:03:53] okay, so my daughter asked me what's your favorite color? So I'm like, all right, well, it kind of
[02:03:57] depends. Like, let's say black was my favorite color. But the same time, like, I don't necessarily
[02:04:04] want everything to be black. Some things I want to be red. Like, I don't want to eat a black
[02:04:08] strawberry. I'll tell you that. Okay. You see what I'm saying, though. A lot of these questions.
[02:04:15] Okay. Like I said, you're doing a lot of these questions. Demand a little bit of a
[02:04:20] little camera. Next question. Well, you'd want to eat a camel orange. Yes. You do want to. If
[02:04:25] there was such a thing, if you get an orange that was camel, we just called it a camel. It said
[02:04:30] an orange. All right. Well, I just think of like, what if my wife's face was camel? I'm not
[02:04:38] again. That wouldn't be too bad either. All right. Well, whatever. All right. Cool. I'll simply
[02:04:43] find my answers. How about that? Cool. Cool. Anyway. All these things. Jockel, few available in various
[02:04:50] locations, including origimayn.com. Yes. Final min shot. Absolutely. And as far as discipline, go
[02:04:57] energy drink cans. Wow. Yes. Available straight up. And by the way, also on Amazon. Yes, sure. Also speaking
[02:05:06] of origin or domain.com, you can get there. You can get. Wow. Florida right now. Wow.
[02:05:15] Police Coast January. There I said it. It's looking like January for the whole
[02:05:19] East Coast. Thanks to the Floridians. It's a Florida troopers. The out there getting after it
[02:05:27] clearing shelves, moving us in the right direction that we can hope for a January.
[02:05:32] Full loadout. Wow. The people from Pennsylvania are fired up. If you notice that on social media,
[02:05:41] people from Pennsylvania, people from Jersey, people from Virginia are like, we need it up here. And
[02:05:46] this wall. Yes. Yeah. I did see it. Just in. Probe in there for sure. Yes. Good. Okay. Back to
[02:05:55] origin.com. American made stuff, including geese, rash guards, jeans, American denim and boots.
[02:06:04] Yeah. And you might think to yourself, oh, oh, American made jeans, right? Okay. I know what
[02:06:09] that's going to be. That's going to be a $350 pair of jeans. That's what you might be thinking
[02:06:15] that. Potent. You're thinking wrong. Actually, you're thinking wrong. Get yourself a couple of
[02:06:20] pair of origin jeans. And listen, they're not as cheap as we want them to be right now. But as we grow,
[02:06:27] as we scale, we will be able to get the price down even more. But join the, join the club of
[02:06:38] supporting America. That's true. Also boots like I said, also talk with the store. It's called
[02:06:46] Jocquistor. It's speaking of clubs. We have another club. It's not really a club. It's just a
[02:06:51] subscription. Yeah, the club. I mean, really, anyway, it's a subscription-based t-shirt scenario.
[02:06:57] I like that way better than club. I think club is something that you do. Unless you're in a
[02:07:03] motorcycle gang club. Yeah. Then that's one. That's like one. Also it depends. Oh,
[02:07:10] that's just sort of a real name. Right. But it depends on the word. What you mean by club. Why are you
[02:07:16] being a lawyer? Because you're over here. You know, you see what I'm saying. Anyway, yes,
[02:07:21] club subscription-based t-shirt. It's situation. Which you are wearing one today. Is this the
[02:07:25] initial rule? Launch mode? It's the one of the ones. I would say that one's dope. Yeah. And you know,
[02:07:31] I don't throw that. You know, it's around very often. It's in the wild. Yeah, but yes, yes, sir. I like your layers.
[02:07:36] I don't know. And yeah, you know, these t-shirt ideas, you know, they come, they go. Some sticks.
[02:07:42] I'm don't stick. But this is like an opportunity for all of us to sort of, you know, capitalize on
[02:07:47] some of the cool t-shirt ideas that just fly in from time to time. Yeah. And just like the ideas coming
[02:07:55] go, the shirts will come and go. Every month. I want to get one of these shirts. And they're gone.
[02:08:00] Anyway, talk of story.com. That's where you can jump on that. If you want, also on
[02:08:03] jockelster.com, you can get the this bin equals freedom. Good. All these stuff. All these stuff.
[02:08:09] shirts, hats, hoodies. You know, some cool stuff on there. So yeah, if you want something, get something.
[02:08:15] Yeah, make sense to me. You can subscribe to this podcast too. If you haven't done that,
[02:08:19] wherever you subscribe to podcast. I'll scut some other podcast. Jockel on ravling with
[02:08:23] Darrell Cooper, which used to be called the thread. Now it's called Jockel on ravling. Also grounded
[02:08:29] podcast. Also worn your kid podcast. We also have a YouTube channel where Echo gets to manifest his
[02:08:38] little video fantasy. All right, kids. You will always say that and hey, man, good. But when you think
[02:08:45] about it, YouTube channel, you're talking about enhanced videos. Videos of weed at some point
[02:08:51] started calling enhanced. Okay, maybe I made that up. But either way, they're not that many of them.
[02:08:57] They're all just like the video version of this podcast and some excerpts of this podcast. So
[02:09:02] technically, the YouTube channel is more you than anything. So you know, I'm just saying you put it on me a lot.
[02:09:08] So I'm just saying it. It's kind of both of us. I don't know. It's sort of the outlet for your
[02:09:14] stuff though. Kind of. Yeah, I guess that's kind of true. I got to see your stuff being out. You
[02:09:19] haven't read any books yet. That's true. You don't. Do you have a podcast? I guess you have this podcast.
[02:09:24] Technically, yeah, I guess. No, that's true. Because yes, if I want to express myself in any
[02:09:30] capacity to come creatively, yeah, where is it going to land? It's going to land on the YouTube
[02:09:34] channel. Like me. I'm over writing songs. I'm over playing guitar. Oh, yeah. I'm painting. I'm drawing.
[02:09:41] I'm writing books. I'm just all about video. That's your realm. Yeah, you do that. Yeah,
[02:09:48] you make a video or two every once in a while. Which is good. Which is who I do it. All
[02:09:52] of you. Oh, yeah. Check. All right. Nonetheless, yes, okay. So I understand now. I understand when
[02:09:58] you're saying it and you're correct. And I am corrected and I understand it fully and accept that.
[02:10:04] Also, psychological warfare. It's an album. You know, you're talking when you make music sometimes.
[02:10:10] You're just making albums. Yeah. There you go. So this is one of them. Anyway, it's not a music
[02:10:14] one. No, this is Jockel helping you with each track. Identify and help you overcome any of the
[02:10:21] that might that you might encounter. So that one is one of those things that's helpful, but it's 100
[02:10:28] percent effective. Sure. Yeah. Also, we have a visual form of that flip side canvas.com decode
[02:10:36] to my art making all kinds of cool stuff to hang on your wall. Got a bunch of books. The books
[02:10:40] today I read from all on the ground. We also have across defense, soccer articles, all those three
[02:10:44] by John Strikker, Meyer, tilt and also whiskey, tango, fox, drop by Lynn Black. These are
[02:10:51] some of the song books that are just awesome about face by Colonel David Hackworth. I wrote the
[02:10:55] forward to that. It's available now. Leadership strategy and tactics field manual. The code,
[02:10:59] the evaluation, the protocol is discipline equals freedom field manual. Where the warrior kid for
[02:11:04] freedom field manual is outright now. You can better order that ASAP if you want it for Christmas.
[02:11:12] Mike in the dragon. Actually, anything you want for Christmas, order it right now. Right now.
[02:11:17] That's my, that's my encouragement to you because otherwise it's not going to be there by Christmas.
[02:11:22] You got all these, everyone's ordering everything and delivery people and delivery planes and
[02:11:27] delivery trucks are short. They're going to run out. So your package is going to be sitting in a
[02:11:32] warehouse somewhere and your kid's going to be crying. And why are they crying through reasons?
[02:11:37] Number one, they don't have war. Your kid. Number two, they don't have war. Your kid. Because
[02:11:41] if they did, they wouldn't be crying about it. They would put their emotions in check. So you might
[02:11:49] want to check that out. And also extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership.
[02:11:53] Excellent front is my leadership consultant. So you go to echelonfront.com.
[02:11:57] If you want help with your leadership, EF online where we are training leadership online all the
[02:12:02] time, go to EF online.com. If you want to ask me a question or you want to figure out some
[02:12:07] leadership problem that you have come and ask us. Mustard 2020, I'll let you know about the
[02:12:13] dates for mustard 2021. That's where we're heading. EF Overwatch, if you need people inside
[02:12:20] your organization that understand the principles we talk about here, go to EF Overwatch.com.
[02:12:26] We will supply you with military personnel who are ready for their civilian job to go out and
[02:12:34] lead. And if you want to help service members, active duty and retired families, gold star families,
[02:12:41] if you want to help out in a bunch of different ways and check out Mark Lee's mom. Her name is
[02:12:46] Mamali. She's got a charity organization. And if you want to donate or you want to get involved, go to
[02:12:50] America's MightyOrators.org. And listen, if you seek personal internal agony, it's what you want,
[02:13:01] what you want is to cause pain to yourself and we can deliver. You can get more of my lack
[02:13:08] luster, allocations. You already can need more of, I think this one's good. If you need more of
[02:13:15] echoes in explicable explanations. So I sent my explicable. You can find us on the
[02:13:25] in-depth Twitter, Instagram, which just so echo knows when I'm talking about when I say Instagram. I know you'll
[02:13:30] need to refer to as the Graham and on Facebook. Echoes at EqualCharles. I'm at Joccal,
[02:13:36] and most important John Streccharmire is on Instagram at J. Streccharmire. And thanks once again to Captain
[02:13:45] On for taking the time to share his experiences with us and more importantly for risking his life over
[02:13:54] and over and over again for his brothers on the ground and for freedom. And thanks to every one of you
[02:14:05] out there in every branch service army, Navy Air Force Marines Coast Guard, and to all of our allies
[02:14:10] that have stood by us on the battlefield to protect the sacred ideal of freedom. Thank you.
[02:14:16] And thanks to those of you in uniform on the home front police and law enforcement, firefighters,
[02:14:22] paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service, and all the
[02:14:29] first responders. Thank you for keeping us safe here at home. And to everyone else out there,
[02:14:35] think of Captain On. Think of taking care of others. Think of recognizing the risk of his mission.
[02:14:48] Going into an area where they had already lost helicopters and deciding
[02:14:54] at the moment a truth that you would just go with one other man.
[02:14:57] And so as to save as many lives as possible, a decision which for him was perfectly logical
[02:15:07] and as he said, no big deal. When the call came, he went and we all should do the same.
[02:15:18] Go. And until next time, the Zekko and Joko out.