Jocko Podcast 251 w Leif Babin: Set The Standard. "Guidelines for the Leader and Commander"

2020-10-15T02:10:41Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @realleifbabin 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:18 - "Guidelines for the Leader and Commander", General Bruce Clarke 2:15:49 - Get a routine. How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/nutrition Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:58:55 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

and that's that's that's that's a that's awesome 101 more stuff I stole from hack hack with 101 several adjuncts to morale chart three good management we all like to be in a unit where things run smoothly where things are planned where men do not have to hurry up and wait adequate information men like to be kept informed ahead of time of things that affect them or are act to affect them it is far better to for the commander to keep his men informed that have the men seek to get such information from rumors high state of training if a unit is not well trained it's men know it this fact shakes their confidence especially if they anticipate the possibility of using that training in a critical situation chances for advancement progress is morale raising to all men knowing that advancement is possible and that excellent performance and preparation lead to promotion helps morale good physical and mental condition good physical condition goes hand in hand with good mental condition these two elements are basic to achieving good morale good administration men like to know that they're paying accounts and individual records are correct confidence and equipment are is the best equipment best equipment army in the world confidence and commanders men expect their commanders to know their jobs to share the hardships with them and to take a personal interest in their problems you will not know whether a particular officer or soldier has a problem until someone has heard his case a willing ear will gain much confidence comfortable quarters I'm paraphrasing some of these mess good food mail service medical attention post exchange facilities leaves and passes religious services and character guidance it is especially important that a army be made up of mostly young soldiers be provided with facilities for religious services in accordance with their preferences a program of character guidance will help to continue in the service the whole some influence of home and community life awards and letters of commendation standards soldiers like to be in a sharp unit they appreciate achievement of high standards in discipline dress house keeping police maintenance training and athletics but lifting morale that comes from impressive and well executed military ceremonies is an important factor that can remind you like group heaties you know and the team and everyone like hates group heaties like crumbles like our group group heaties but if you don't know that it can be a problem back to the book so morale must be high enough to stand the shock and the boredom of combat every man must be strong must strongly believe that what he is doing is right he must have supreme confidence that he can deal with any situation that he is a better fighter than the enemy a spree decor is unit morale every man must feel that his unit is a superb fighting unit and that he like the rest will sacrifice even life itself for the unit the spirit is often the difference between mediocre and superior armies it was strong in the robin legions and the French troops under Napoleon recognize though that the commander must inspire beyond the group a spree only deep personal conviction springing from the identification with a cause will drive a man forward when his unit is destroyed or scattered personal example the commander should be a model soldier he must master the technique of war as it fits his assignment he must improve and expand his technical knowledge the commander must strive to make it possible for every soldier to say truthfully the old man knows the old man always knows the right thing to do in addition he must exhibit daily a fine example of stamina and courage besides his own example the higher commander is also represented by his staff officers they too must reflect the superior qualities of their commander above all set the proper example leading by example there you go the model soldier soldiers morale show me a unit that is well run properly trained and ready for combat and I'll show you a unit with high morale no commander will readily admit that his units morale is anything other than next I wrote the leadership strategy in tax people is asking how do I improve do hard things you unimproven morale do hard things as we compare units however it is often obvious that morale in some units is more excellent than in others what is morale our manual on leadership defines morale is the mental and emotional state of the individual although it is a complex and intangible quality the manifestations of its absence in a unit can be detected readily in the form of poor appearance of the individuals of the individuals and unit area poor discipline and a low state of training that's something I mean obviously a high worth immediately applied that you know to the the hard from the hard luck to the hardcore for Italian and I was thinking about that with task and bruiser something that we talk about often which is you know the initially we were working hard than everybody you know people were working hard than we were preparing for scenarios that we the guys had been to Iraq previously like what why are we training for this crazy multi-cash little scenario you know that we we didn't experience anything like that on the on the battlefield or when the instructors say hey you guys are good to go hey we're so focused on ourselves I'm focused on how tired I am I don't know how tired this guy is all I have really is his external what he's doing or looking like but if the other guy's just like cruising in his face like he's really comfortable you're like man I can't compete with this at all so now you want to give up even more you can never like the joke about normal face is no joke man it really isn't it really truly isn't and you talk about you talk about you know like when how many times have you seen me like we're doing jujitsu or even not you training with me but me training with anybody me training with Dean Lish you know training with somebody that's better than me that's given me a run have you ever seen like a look on my face of just like despair and we went bought you a big like Danny slam burger you know like double cheese burger like we're gonna go let's go see jokbo you just had a surgery and we roll up there and you were just and you were like normal I knew you were hurt back as you did like like just set it down over there like you were still like normal face and I don't know what you looked like before we walked in there and he's telling his corner caught him off he's done caught my gloves off I'm done and basically his corners like you got you know you got to keep going and they look over the other guy didn't answer the bell so like that's that's where it's at like if you you can give up right there that's something to think about you know like can you just go a little bit more can you just go a little bit more back to the book in combat you really see the critical importance of high morale and a speed of core morale must be high enough to stand the shock and boredom of combat you know actually before I continue here I want to say this that thing about giving people heads up about what they're going to face like that you or we lost a a kick 13 which is you know cryptologic device that you know that we use for radios it's a cryptological device that when you lose means the entire country of America has to update their cryptological modes which is a giant deal and so for Jocco to just give you the normal face on that it's actually the worst it's like your dad telling you he's he's uh he's not angry he's just disappointed I mean it's actually the worst because if you were like dude are you kidding me you know like I would look at it it would be desirable which I was like Roger and just looks back at you like it's like angry doesn't it give you like a you know you're gonna make whatever $5,000 this month you know what I know you like to get after it and go have a good time and you should and you should do that with $4,000 not with $4,999 so if you're in a position where you can help people plan their economic future please do that you know what it's funny that you're actually saying that because you of all the people I worked with in 13 years in the Navy like you're the only one that did that and maybe not on like a you didn't like have a presentation to the entire task unit you know maybe you could have done something absolutely should have no I maybe it's on the other side of like your brain or something but doesn't it give you like a big sense of comfort like okay at least this is manageable like it's a big deal but at least it's manageable because like if you're already kind of freaking out for whatever reason and you bring it to him who's like part of the reason you're kind of apprehensive about the whole thing to say the least and he doesn't freak out so it's like it feels like in your mind you're like but the fact that he's saying look you're not bringing people in there to preach on how to do things you're bringing in their educate to have discussions and he's got the whole topic of discussions here military courtesy personal standards military discipline promotions unit history a speed of core accomplishments missions troop information morale self education of officers professional publications responsibility for fun he's got everything security classification use a misuse of military vehicles so basically it's like tell the guys what's going on that's what he's saying you have to tell people what's going on and then he's got this commander's checklist for success and this we've already been going for a while so this will probably be the last thing we cover every commander at every echelon should maintain a continuing checklist to be left for or given to his successor to command this checklist should contain items of value that will assist the new commander in becoming familiar with his command more rapidly than if he had had to uncover the same items over a period of time such items must consist of one significant strengths and weaknesses of key officers and non-commission officers in the command boom isn't it weird that we might be in charge of people and know that we would have to turn this over and not keep track of like who's what strengthen weaknesses are next important policy matters announced by senior commanders and not contained in SOP or directives so you're tracking this stuff a good turnover is such an important thing to to do and what I think is important about a turnover it's great to have it to turn over to the next unit but what it does is it forces you to actually think through how you are operating and when you force yourself to think through how you're operating you define it you refine it you codify it right so he's out there I actually owe him copies of about face of this new version but guess what I'll some sending him a RCs of extreme ownership because they gave us about six each I have all of mine I have mine as well you want to know why why do you have yours why did you keep yours I think I some of my intended to send to people and they didn't get sent and some of my just thought be kind of cool to get hang on to you know I only kept I first of all I didn't know that it was a big deal I didn't know that this is this whole thing you know we didn't know if the hell we are doing when it came to writing so we didn't know if the hell we were doing so they send us these things and I'm like that's legit all right back to the book chart number four evidence of we're on this whole thing talking about morale and this is evidence of morale and discussing the subject of morale with visitors I often ask and am asked what do you look for in a unit or in order to gauge the morale since morale is influenced by so many factors there are naturally many indications of the state of morale the things I know quickly and sizing up a unit include I'm gonna burn through some of these saluting dress good house keeping pride pride I'll go into that one a little bit are the men eager to show their accomplishments do they point to their units history with pride do they have something good to sell and try and sell it participating in charities athletic program and support teams and athletic program enthusiastically supporters always a favorable indication of morale church attendance soldiers deposits and other savings a man who saves his money each month is banking on his future and his wellage it is usually a well adjusted and confident soldier when there are many such soldiers in a unit there is a depth of stability in the organization but commanders should not attempt to coerce the men to participate in this program you know just for for for all leaders really this is probably one of the things when I look back at my military career that I did a pretty horrible job of and that was that I never said all guys here's what you should do with your money here's some here's some moves to make you know here's some things that you should do here some things that you shouldn't do so just if you're a leader especially if you're a military leader look when you're a militant a lot of kids that joined the military myself included hey when I got to the teams and I was an E4 in the teams I was the richest person in the world and you know I got that paycheck every two weeks and you know it's funny people like say it to me like you're all in either one or two ways one is like you know I kind of like this sour apple sniper like they kind of ashamed to tell me and then the other ones like sour apple sniper is way better but it's we kind of like to think oh it's harder for me and without the recognition of like man this is it's hard for everybody and if I can push a little bit harder it's gonna give me the advantage I figured that out in hell week for me I wasn't the fastest runner I wasn't a fastest swimmer but like by like day two of hell week everyone is crushed I was like dude I'm good to go like all cool got it in a way I got it in a way being like overly tired driving could then again I don't know could be worse if it's because people were sick of the wheel because you can't control it you get the point where you can control it with like being drunk because it's you know it's facing sometimes when people are drunk behind the wheel they get like more daring and aggressive so they'll you know it's less that but that that's an awesome thing man and that's powerful I mean you and I were just talking about this today right with some some uh with Ashlong front stuff and and uh and our strategic growth and and things that I was really spinning up about and and really stressing on you're like it's not that big of a deal you know and that is that's something that is uh that perspective you know what someone's immersed it or it's someone is immersed in the details of things and they're like it's the way it's bearing down on them or like man this is gonna happen it's really easy to get stressed out about that hey you know whether even it's just something stupid like I'm thinking of some dump stuff like a you lost some gear right some let's say some critical gear which you did or your platoon did which means you did like like you know you come to me all right cool Roger you know as opposed to being like I can't believe you did that because now you can be like god jack was such a jerk and it's almost like you know we can have a little spatio as opposed to me just late just saddling you with unbearable guilt for letting me down but it's it's the reality is it's gets the problem fixed it gives the problem fixed I mean with it's not unbearable guilt it's like you're you're gonna like I would be I was feeling literally like physically claustrophobic because of how tired I was like empathetically getting from watching you guys and like how your arms were whatever else like man I don't know how he he can even take that or whatever I you know it's a learning process you know you learn about you know you learn about control in your emotions life I've learned a lot about parenting I feel like with the kids practicing or taking opportunities to practice normal face 100% of the time is a good method it's a good method and it is a great thing like no joke it is a great thing for a leader to be able to control your emotions because your emotions we already talked about this if I'm panicking if lay for a porch to me some news you know you're going to like if you I've had fighters where they're they got their first big they're on the big stage maybe they're in the UFC for the first time or whatever they get nervous and they don't know what that is no one ever told them hey man you're gonna feel you know you're gonna feel sick you're gonna feel butterflies T do or T is you know you know when you have a unit turning over thing like people coming in like get these idiots out of here we're going to take take over even though we've been there for six months learning and I was like man how are you going to learn from us to continue the mission to be more effective if we don't tell you what we screwed up but clearly he wasn't used to that and most people weren't doing that and I think that taking deeply about it and if you care about the mission then you want you want the people it is successful and and I actually you've got to kind of be honest with where if that's the goal like for real goal you know to work out every day that is a good thing as opposed to you know like I'm going to try to work out this week you know there's a difference is what I'm saying Dave we got got like going on with Ashland front work with leaders all the time you know as we talk about it just been phenomenal watch them particularly through this tough times of you know some some economic turmoil through COVID lockdowns and and unrest across riots across America etc like it's been it's been awesome to see companies taking apply those principles and so we've got got some great stuff going on Ashland front I think particularly if you think about decades from now what that might be like I a friend of mine showed me you know obviously that stuff becomes quite valuable to collectors and people that know you know it's meaningful to people that it has the understand the value of what it is and how rare it is and a friend of mine showed me a copy of it was a biography of Stonewall Jackson and he was like he handed it to me it was kind of his old and kind of brittle You know if I if I like I've got to pretend like I know it all and like no everyone knows you don't know at all.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 251 with echo Charles and me, Jockel willing. Good evening, I go.
[00:00:06] Good evening. And also joining us tonight. This is my brother, Dave Baben.
[00:00:12] From podcast 11, first guest ever on the podcast 34 65 14 and 138.
[00:00:22] And obviously, Dave was in task unit, bruiser as the Charlie Platoon commander in the Battle of
[00:00:28] the body. We wrote extreme ownership. We wrote that I caught a major leadership together.
[00:00:33] And we have a leadership consultancy called Escelon Front.
[00:00:38] And I at one point in my life gave him the book that I've been reviewing for the last couple episodes that I wrote, the new forward to the book is called about face.
[00:00:49] And we're going to talk a little bit about that, but then we're going somewhere else.
[00:00:54] Dave, thanks for coming back all man. Thanks for having me on with 2018.
[00:00:59] 14 August 2018. The world has changed drastically since then. That's kind of crazy.
[00:01:07] It's crazy that as much as I see you, we just didn't coordinate for another podcast in over two years.
[00:01:16] That's apparently, did you say everything you had to say on the first five? Apparently so. That's just the way it is.
[00:01:24] You were telling me about about face in the Battle of Ramadi.
[00:01:29] Me kind of saying, hey, check this out. Check out this section.
[00:01:35] What were you thinking about reading you about like the South Vietnamese Army and how corrupt they were,
[00:01:40] or whatever, all these different examples?
[00:01:43] I mean, just I thought it was so awesome that this new, you know, this new book with the new forward grid in my view, you know, for about face, the new, the new version of it that's out with the new forward.
[00:01:53] And I remember to say they come back from operations in Ramadi, more pull tests, probably at least four or five different times.
[00:01:59] I could remember where I like walk into the year office in the Tackle Operations Center at the Cat Margley and you'd say,
[00:02:06] Hey, listen to this and I was like, okay, and you bust out the book, you'd open it up to like a highlighted section, read this section.
[00:02:14] And it was mind blowing because it was just like, it was written about the operation that I was just on like an hour ago.
[00:02:22] And instead it was written 40 years before about Vietnam.
[00:02:25] And it was pretty, pretty early. And I was, it had, I never realized all the influences until later when you gave me a copy of the book,
[00:02:34] which is the one thing that you gave to me and you gave the SESNON, the Delta Tick Commander, when we finished task in a loser, we came home.
[00:02:42] I still have that book, it's dated, you know, January, 2007, we just been home for two months at that point.
[00:02:48] But now going through that book, I realized like, where you got the, you know, renaming task in a loser.
[00:02:54] You know, all those things like there's so many things that came from that. So it had so much influence on you and through you on me and everybody in task in a loser.
[00:03:03] And then every generation after it, that's crazy.
[00:03:06] Now, in that book, in the book about face, there's two quotes that always bothered me.
[00:03:13] Here's the first one.
[00:03:16] Men in battle, men will do in battle what they have been in the habit of doing in training.
[00:03:25] General Bruce Clark, one of the US Army's greatest training generals had written in his then recently published guidelines for the leader and commander.
[00:03:35] So that's the first quote that bothered me. The second quote that bothered me was this quote.
[00:03:41] The troops responded well to hard hands on repetitive but still interesting work.
[00:03:47] They may not have wanted to go to Vietnam, but they sure as hell didn't want to die there. So they even flocked to off duty classes like Rekondo.
[00:03:57] Meanwhile, I established the requirement that all officers and NCOs in the battalion read and carry on their person.
[00:04:08] General Bruce Clark's guidelines for the leader and commander as far as I was concerned the finest little handbook on leadership and training ever written.
[00:04:18] And it dropped as their own philosophy, the one that I'd learned from a five by seven card, which I still had issued to me in Clark's seventh army in Germany, which stated an organization does well only those things the boss checks and quote.
[00:04:37] So why did those two quotes bothered me? They didn't bother me because I didn't agree with them. Obviously, they bothered me because I could never find this specific book called guidelines for the leader and commander.
[00:04:50] And I always searched for it.
[00:04:53] I would look for, and you know, these days you can pretty much find anything online, especially like a lot of the old manuals that I read.
[00:05:00] Old army manuals on, you know, they've been out of print for a long time, but you can go find a PDF somebody uploaded it. This thing has been nowhere forever.
[00:05:09] And here I was learning from this book that Colonel Hacworth wrote, but I could never find the book that Hacworth learned from.
[00:05:18] And that did not make me happy. So so who was this guy? General Bruce Clark Bruce Clark.
[00:05:25] He's a world war world war 2 career. He enlisted in 1917 and it up going to West Point. Hope you don't hold that against some life.
[00:05:32] Get to go. I turned down my poem at the West Point, but it's a great place. He's got into a army school. Look at you over a cheever.
[00:05:41] I had to go to the seal, let's see it around man. There's a goal.
[00:05:47] You, that's a rough gamble, right? It was a rough gamble and it paid. It was very poor gamble. I graduated and I didn't get selected with a seal program.
[00:05:57] I could tell you, I was like, I should have gone to West Point. I'd be in the army.
[00:06:01] You know, I'd have all those opportunities in front of me.
[00:06:03] That is the, that is the worst luck that that happens that the seal teams is in the Navy.
[00:06:11] And if you don't, if you want to be a seal and you don't make it into the seal teams, you're in the Navy because you probably don't want to have the type of job that a regular Navy dude has.
[00:06:19] If you want to be in the seal teams, would you concur?
[00:06:22] Definitely. I mean, if you, if you want to be in the seal teams, that means you want to be shooting machine gun and run around in the streets or the jungle or whatever.
[00:06:30] You don't want to be on a ship. You don't work in an engine room or, or, you know, driving a ship or,
[00:06:36] driving a ship or a bridge or whatever. And those are cool jobs too, different people like different jobs, but those are two almost totally different types of jobs.
[00:06:46] Whereas, hey, if you tried for special forces and you didn't make it, you still be an infantry guy and that's still the similar thing.
[00:06:53] But you just rolled the dice big time.
[00:06:56] I did, but it worked out. And, you know, you got to trust it.
[00:07:00] In fact, I got selected for the seal program right out of the academy in 1998, when I graduated. I'd have never been a task in Bruser.
[00:07:07] I would have not been Charlie between commander. I would have done my OIC, probably at least a year or two or three prior to that as a lot of the guys who were my same year group.
[00:07:18] So, you know, that's the good Lord has a plan and you got to just trust in that plan and, and I actually not had I got selected from Marine Corps.
[00:07:26] I was never had a chance to be in the seal teams either. So, but last points in awesome school man, it was a really, really agonizing decision for me because I got picked up for last point in, and like, it was like probably January,
[00:07:40] February of my senior year and then I found out I got, I got an appointment. So I accepted it and then I didn't find out until like April that I got into the Navy.
[00:07:49] So it was, you know, it was, it was a big gamble for sure, but hey man,
[00:07:55] it's an awesome, obviously there's a great rivalry between West Point and you know, Army Navy, everyone knows the football games, but I am one of the things we're most proud of, obviously,
[00:08:06] the Intascan Ruser was being the one-one AD Army Seals as they call this and so good on General Cart.
[00:08:14] One thing that I just wanted to say when you read that quote, I'm fascinated, you know, to listen this as well because I have used that quote,
[00:08:22] an organization does well only those things the boss checks, I probably a thousand times.
[00:08:26] Since teaching the Junior Officer Training course up through what we do now with our strong front and I did not realize it came out of this book.
[00:08:33] I was going to say don't you use the attributed to that? I was a trivety-taque.
[00:08:36] Yeah, I think I just missed remember that he, he obviously was giving credit to General Clark and I clearly did not remember that.
[00:08:45] I did not do that right. Yeah, so he went to West Point, so he enlisted World War I went to West Point, World War II,
[00:08:54] commanded the fourth armored division in patents, patents third Army,
[00:08:59] Battle of Arakort, Battle of the Bulge, Distinguished Service Cross and three Silver Stars, also in Korea, ended up with 45 or so years of service.
[00:09:14] Not only leading troops, but also he oversaw a bunch of training schools and training commands,
[00:09:23] died in 1988 at age 86 and I wanted this book, I searched for this book for years, I wrote an email to the publisher.
[00:09:30] This publisher still exists, I'm going to call them out right now because I'm sure someone will reach out to them.
[00:09:35] I think it's stacked poll books, they still exist and we've covered other books of theirs on this podcast because they print a lot of military type books.
[00:09:43] I think the clay pigeons is St. Low, we covered that on this podcast and a few others that are in the queue.
[00:09:49] I reached out to them and said, I'm email, hey, I'm looking for this book, I see that you used to publish it.
[00:09:53] Nothing never heard, nothing back.
[00:09:56] And then, you know, like you said, the Lord works in mysterious ways about face the new, the new version comes out.
[00:10:04] And I searched on Amazon once a month, I'll search and see if they would have this book.
[00:10:10] I've listed in there, that's why I knew the publisher was, but they would have it in there and not available, not available for years, it's been not available.
[00:10:18] It popped up. It says available one copy, $300, $300, this is, and I'm only holding a photo copy right now.
[00:10:28] It was $300, this thing is 117 pages, it's like, I don't know, six by a little, it's small.
[00:10:34] It's this little book, it showed up in a little tiny envelope, I was super stoked.
[00:10:39] And as you might imagine, like you said, it's filled with lessons filled with the obvious roots of hackers theories around training and leadership, which I stole as you already.
[00:10:52] Rightfully accused me of stealing many things from hack worth as I fully admit all the time that I stole, I used to pass on to everyone I could still try and pass on.
[00:11:01] Still trying pass on to about face, still trying to pass on what we do in echelon front, trying pass on these lessons.
[00:11:06] So you know what, I don't think you can actually use the word steel because they're freely given in the same way that like, when people are like, hey, do you mind if we like talk about it's remodership with our team like, no.
[00:11:17] I actually don't mind, in fact, that's what we wrote the book for, that's why hack, I'm sure that's why hack wrote the about face and I'm sure, obviously that's why general Clark wrote what he wrote.
[00:11:27] So it's not stealing, it's freely given and I think as we often said, like, we didn't learn anything new, we just, we just maybe package it a little bit differently.
[00:11:38] Yeah, I use a different term than maybe other's used.
[00:11:40] It's always good when it's pretty common for, you know, me to do a, an initial client call with a company and they'll be, you know, give me a brief on their company and they're like, our company values are blah, blah, blah, blah,
[00:11:53] extreem ownership and they're like, hey, we hope you don't mind, we're like, exact same thing.
[00:11:58] I say, you can't steal, what's free? So, uh, and I, I try and give hack worth credit. Yeah, but I guess you're right, can't steal, what's free, but what we can do is we can take it and we can try and pass it on.
[00:12:11] So without further ado, I present to you at long last guidelines for the leader and commander.
[00:12:22] There's, I'll have to show it to you later. There's a little, there's a little signature. I don't have it in the photo copy. There's a, it's written, there's a little, you know, somebody gave it to someone, something gave it to like the command sergeant major or something like that.
[00:12:33] All right. So here we go dedicated to the ground combat soldier.
[00:12:40] Paramount concern of the army is the ground combat soldier. He is the focal point of all our efforts organizing equipping training, sustaining and supporting him so that he can perform his indispensable role in combat is the army role.
[00:12:58] The role is equally significant in any kind of war hot or cold.
[00:13:04] It is just as important in general war as it is in limited war for our nation to entertain any notion to the contrary would be dangerous.
[00:13:14] The danger could be social as well as military more than any other category of personnel in the armed forces, the ground combat soldier comes from the general populace. He is the private citizen under arms the clenched fist of his people.
[00:13:33] I think I'm just rolling that from now on. That is the greatest description of a combat. Yes.
[00:13:40] I'm a combat soldier I've ever heard of my life. The clenched fist of the people. Why? Why is this the first time I'm hearing this? That's the one thing I'm, I'm just remiss about.
[00:13:51] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Me too. We could have, we could have put that up as like a post to a potassium abuser.
[00:13:57] You know, I think I used and you may have heard me use this in fact, I know you did. The sort of destruction.
[00:14:06] I used that to describe sort of what our methodology was, especially in cleaning out insurgency and how, hey everyone wants to be. Everyone wants to make friends and when the hearts and minds and that's all definitely important.
[00:14:19] But that really comes and this is, this is what I use this line that would come after the sort of destruction has been wielded on the insurgents or the bad guys.
[00:14:31] I think the fist of the people is better. We're going with a clenched fist, the clenched fist of the people.
[00:14:38] Back to the book, it is by no idle chance in the history of mankind that the course of democracy parallels the importance according to the ground combat soldier in the military forces of nations.
[00:14:51] It is no exaggeration to say that the basic freedoms we now enjoy are closely related to his ascending importance on the battlefields since the battle of crazy.
[00:15:04] Nor is it an exaggeration, in my opinion, to say that the preservation of those freedoms will continue to be oriented by his place in the sun.
[00:15:15] Only when men from all of the people are willing and ready to fight and die for freedom does freedom have meaning for them.
[00:15:25] Only then does democracy thrive.
[00:15:31] Is the inexorable lesson of history. These are important things to be reading right around this time in the world, because what percentage of the populace actually is in the military one percent.
[00:15:44] So there's not a lot of people that seem to step up and be ready and willing and what does that mean? That means they don't understand what the price is.
[00:15:52] And the cost is what he's saying here is freedom is only safe when there's people that are when there's all people he's saying all people by the way, all people have to be ready and willing.
[00:16:05] To be.
[00:16:08] Well, you also have to think about his perspective though, right? I mean, I think in America today obviously we've been at war for a long time since 9.11.
[00:16:15] But there really there isn't an existential threat in the way that he was living with World War I. You've got this expanding empire now World War II.
[00:16:24] You've got you've got the Japanese Germans. I mean there's the world was truly at stake and and it was everybody all hands on deck even those that couldn't serve who are medically qualified or whatever.
[00:16:36] Like they're they're they're doing everything for blood drives to you know collecting tires all that kind of stuff is going on back here bond drives you know.
[00:16:48] We've got to.
[00:16:49] Yeah, you know the rosy the riveter I mean ladies out there turning wrenches and building planes and tanks and all that stuff.
[00:16:56] So I think that was I mean our country has an experience that probably since that's World War II, but I think living to that probably gave him unique perspective.
[00:17:08] This also ties in continuing on but guide by the mechanical marvels of an age it is easy for people to forget the true character of the ground combat soldiers in war.
[00:17:22] When free men have been so bogiled in the past they have slipped back into slavery.
[00:17:32] For the ability of the ground combat soldier to play his part in the social scheme of things depends upon the part he has given in the military scheme of things.
[00:17:41] Again, we we can very easily think about the fact that you know this war is a technical thing and you don't have to put boots on the ground and that whole idea that technology can eliminate war.
[00:17:57] But you and I were talking the other day that there's there's some people that hey God bless them they have a positive attitude that we as a species can evolve to a point where you know we don't have more anymore and that's a very positive thought think we would all agree that that would be a great thing.
[00:18:18] We are probably highly unrealistic because there's always going to be somebody to put no matter how nice you are there's always going to be somebody that's going to try and.
[00:18:29] Take a couple extra dollars from you echo Charles yes you have to defend yourself.
[00:18:34] Even if you're super nice.
[00:18:36] Yes you might have to fight.
[00:18:39] I think you can't study history and believe that we're on some greater trajectory and mankind is above war or conflict or evil or darkness and I think I'll have most about this podcast is.
[00:18:52] Reminding people of the darkness you can't appreciate the light if you don't know the darkness and and I think that's that's the most powerful thing and I think only view experience what general clock is experienced do you fully get understand that.
[00:19:05] I answer a question on podcast a long time ago guy said you know you keep talking about training jjitsu but I don't even like to fight why should I train jjitsu and I said if you don't like to fight you are actually the premier person that needs to train jjitsu.
[00:19:19] And if you don't like war and you don't want to go to war.
[00:19:23] Then you should train and prepare and be ready to go to war and then hopefully won't have to.
[00:19:29] And if you do it'll be swift.
[00:19:31] And that quote reminds me of is that we get asked how often do we get asked about you know talk about some training or bud story you know from the seal basic training program and we don't even talk about that stuff because I think people.
[00:19:48] I mean the I'm trying to explain to people that the the the physical nature of combat operations is so much more you know more difficult than anything and training and then then the emotional you know.
[00:19:59] So it's going to say that as a physical yes but the mental and emotional isn't even comparable thing right like it's not a comparable thing to say.
[00:20:08] Well you know I was really wet and cold during seal training compared to I was waiting to suck start an IED.
[00:20:18] 17 nights in a row you know like that's definitely more mental stress than hey you're going to have to go hit the surfer again who cares.
[00:20:29] No question about that but what I'm talking about the physical nature of it so we're talking about the ground combat so here and this is.
[00:20:36] You know I'm thinking about you know one of our seals I mean you certainly know well it's one of my most awesome guys in charge of it's in suit just a physical you know stud awesome dude who's like going down with heat exhaustion and like can't can't continue forward and I'm having like.
[00:20:53] I've made you're machine gun take my you know my rifle my M4 we got a movement we can't stay here we're going to get we're going to get hammered and we knew we're going to get we're going to get ambushed any second so it was.
[00:21:06] I'm going to go to the vehicle nature of that like I can't physically continue because I'm carrying you know 80 pounds of gear on this patrol and it's 117 degrees right now and I got a little behind the hydration curve.
[00:21:24] I think that's something that people when you're talking about technology and arriving in vehicles or flying an aircraft or shooting missiles and there's there's just no getting around.
[00:21:37] I was carrying a rock sack you know a heavy rock sack would gear and going on foot and out the you remind was unique like that for us because.
[00:21:59] I think it's just it's just savage like it's just you know whenever you put on you know like at the beginning of land warfare training and you have put on a rocksack and whatever two months because you were.
[00:22:13] I'm going to go on leave and whatever and you get out to the desert warfare training facility and you put your gear on for the first time and you're like yeah and the first it's one of those things were the first like 20 minutes.
[00:22:28] You're just thinking this completely sucks and then it just sucks about that the suck kind of numbs out but it's just savage it's just it's just it's just a constant level of pain and no no matter how good of shape you thought you were I mean that guy was just talking about was an awesome shape he was a great you know physical specimen like awesome dude train hard all the time well the best deals I know.
[00:22:50] I mean it happened to me I remember Johnny Kim was a patron in the position Johnny Kim was like you know here's our corpsman he's like hey life you do an okay.
[00:23:00] I'm like I don't know man you know he's I was like super pale and he could see that I was and I just I was dehydrated and we're already smoke you've been up for 24 hours so he like gave me an IV and you know to just help me help me recuperates and we were in good shape I mean we train hard we are already a climate does it just it was it was hard it was physically difficult all those emotional things are absolutely okay when it was a it was physically hard.
[00:23:29] And probably the best dayberg talks about this you could deal with good deal dayberg.
[00:23:34] Running with a pallet of water between where you you were back at cop falcon we were in a cyber Overwatch position like 300 yards down the street.
[00:23:43] Carrying on on Israeli stretcher with like pallets of water and MREs which probably you know probably way like 200 pounds and running as fast as we could with that in all our combat gear for 300 yards.
[00:23:57] And then we were like hey we're like let's go and we're just running and it was awesome I didn't deliver you run to you guys down there you did you brought some water to this we're just we're just baking on the roof top and nothing.
[00:24:12] Yeah, no, no, no, no, like even just that even just sitting there baking on a rooftop for three days just just getting dehydrated everything sucks as to quote Tony everything sucks everything sucks.
[00:24:25] All right back to the book it will be a sorry day for all mankind in this supersonic nuclear age of ours should the ground combat soldier ever be deprived of his rightful place in the hearts and minds and military forces of his people.
[00:24:48] In our efforts to abort this danger a one army attitude must pervade all ranks the ground combat soldier is not a guardsman nor regular nor reservist nor a selectee.
[00:25:01] He is simply the American fighting man on the one army team.
[00:25:07] I appeal to every member of the team civilian and military to give his cause the enthusiastic support marited by its vital importance to our country Bruce C Clark general US army.
[00:25:24] There's the intro.
[00:25:26] We're already off to good start.
[00:25:28] I'm the next copy that's effort 300 bucks.
[00:25:31] I'm sure stack full will will reach out, but if they don't, I'm just going to publish this thing.
[00:25:39] Jack O'Poachal publish yes coming in hot with the PDF.
[00:25:44] Publishers forward.
[00:25:47] These guidelines were written by a leader and commander out of the wealth of experience gained by him in leading and commanding troops from a squad to an army group.
[00:25:56] These guidelines were prepared for the benefit of the of other leaders and commanders in the US army in order that they in turn may make use of his counsel and experience.
[00:26:06] So as you said, he wrote this for us.
[00:26:09] General Bruce C Clark has probably had more command duty at more command levels than any other officer in the US army living or dead.
[00:26:20] He served more than 40 years in all grades from private to forestar general known as the most effective trainer of modern times in the US army as well as an outstanding combat commander general Clark here specifies the methods he has used without standing success in management training in soldier management and in leadership and general ship.
[00:26:44] What do you think not exactly the light way not exactly the light way.
[00:26:49] The picture in here says the ground combat soldier the focal point of all our efforts.
[00:26:53] You know what's cool God.
[00:26:54] I was just as you're as you're saying that you know I'm sitting there thinking about my experience and body and you know our combat experience three to points or a rack is just absolutely nothing compared to what someone who fought in World War one World War two and Korea.
[00:27:10] I mean it's it's just it just I'm so humble when I read about people's experiences and realize oh I if I think I thought I thought I saw some combat and that was significant for the Iraq war is like man it's absolutely nothing all the even the physical hardship something describing just pale in comparison.
[00:27:27] You know to to battles and just what what general Clark experience it's so many have experienced about the ages we often joke about the fact that.
[00:27:39] Just what we experienced compared to what these guys went through when we had Dean lad on the podcast.
[00:27:45] Who got got shot.
[00:27:48] Rollin into Taroa 500 yards from the beach.
[00:27:53] There's no possible way he should survive that and by the way what was really crazy is that was like he did.
[00:27:59] After he got done with a he had already done.
[00:28:02] The one of the other islands he goes into Taroa gets got shot two of Marines disobey all orders and actually grab him and bring him back to a boat he gets somehow miraculously safe he goes back.
[00:28:15] To Hawaii and then six months later he's back going on another island campaign it's like oh you got got shot but you survived school you're in the game.
[00:28:23] Yeah.
[00:28:26] America what.
[00:28:31] All right chapter one.
[00:28:34] Part one is leadership and command chapter one command responsibilities introduction when an individual assumes command of a unit larger small he steps into one of the most interesting and the most challenging assignments a member of the armed forces can have.
[00:28:47] Here is a job into which a man can sink his teeth.
[00:28:51] Here is a job where initiative originality hard work fidelity and human understanding can pay off in the richest dividends this chapter includes many matters that are connected with the ability of the commander to train his unit.
[00:29:08] So it's interesting what extreme ownership we close out by saying this is the most challenging endeavor human can.
[00:29:15] Leadership is the most challenging endeavor human faces and therefore the most rewarding.
[00:29:20] And so where we didn't steal that from him even though he just said the exact same thing even though he wrote it a lot earlier than us.
[00:29:26] You know what you know what it is though like it was when we talk which I believe it's all the time and they say hey we're already doing a lot of things you're talking about.
[00:29:35] And and what the reason for that is because there's what works and there's what doesn't work so no matter what you call it you know we gave a little framework around
[00:29:44] And so if you're in a leadership position you're going to you're going to figure out what actually works and that makes me think about this you talk about psychology a lot and not not in like.
[00:29:58] Psychological terms and you know like clinical terms but in like.
[00:30:02] And I try to get people do what you need them to do to accomplish a mission with and that's exactly a human nature it took me out of the home of the podcast must have been around I don't know but at some point I said yeah this is a podcast about human nature really that's what it's about human nature and where human nature is most revealed is in war or in.
[00:30:22] atrocities or human suffering or human struggle that's when that's when human nature is revealed and you know.
[00:30:33] We had this conversation and I don't know when but I remember telling you and stoner and being like hey look when we go on deployment people are going to go crazy and look I didn't mean hey these people are going up but we don't when you talk about senior leaders or.
[00:30:48] I'm going to start feeling pressure and people do crazy things and I saw that from my first deployment to Iraq Ross I was thinking wait a second this is just like people are going crazy so.
[00:30:59] That's something that happens it's it's just human nature is revealed and if you're.
[00:31:06] Let's say you're nervous about things let's say you're nervous type person you're you're you're a scared of something. What's that going to do in combat it's just going to get worse let's say you're worried about things.
[00:31:19] What's going to happen to combat you're going to be even more worried let's say you have a tendency to focus on things that don't really matter.
[00:31:26] You're going to do that even more in combat it's like everything you're just your human nature gets exposed.
[00:31:33] To quote you it's combat is life amplified and it's a bunch of and I think that's that's.
[00:31:40] That's a hundred percent true it's a hundred percent true and it's like that friend that.
[00:31:44] That tells you like they go crazy when they drink and you're like no you're actually just when you drink you actually are crazy and you're able to keep it.
[00:31:54] I tell you put the alcohol in you know you actually are crazy and it just comes out yes very similar.
[00:32:05] Here we go back to the book so you want a command how often if we heard an officer say I do anything to get a command.
[00:32:13] Have you ever wondered if you really meant it have you ever wondered if you really would make a good commander.
[00:32:19] We have often heard the expression a good commander is born not made this is interesting so he's saying hey we often hear a good commander is born not made.
[00:32:31] You know how nowadays they say you know actually anyone can be a leader.
[00:32:35] I shouldn't say it's such a sarcastic voice people say look anyone can be a leader you can learn.
[00:32:40] What I talked about leaders of strategy and tactics is it's both like you're going to get some natural qualities for sure some other things you're going to have to work in.
[00:32:48] So he says we often hear heard the expression a good commander is born not made he says this is not entirely true.
[00:32:57] By exercising certain principles the vast majority of officers can become good commanders there you go he agrees with me.
[00:33:08] Let us see if considering the following 20 questions will provide us with some guidelines if the answers to these questions are yes the potential commander statement is sincere and he should fight to get it and should be given a command.
[00:33:22] He will never have an assignment that will give him greater sounds fraction or one that will enable him to contribute more to the army and to our country.
[00:33:28] So here's the 20 questions.
[00:33:32] Is the officer seeking command duty willing to devote all hours of day and night seven days a week to his command.
[00:33:41] Is his wife willing to take an active role in helping to make a happy army community in their unit area.
[00:33:50] Is his family willing to be secondary if necessary to the company battalion group regimen combat command brigade or division.
[00:34:00] So glad you wrote that because I still have people that will call me out because I'll say hey when I was in the teams the teams came first the teams were more important than my family and I'm sorry.
[00:34:14] But you have to take care of your guys you have to.
[00:34:21] You mean when you would say things like I'm going to go home and see this woman and these kids that live at my house.
[00:34:31] Yes, and just for the record, Jago was, Jago is a loving husband and awesome dad, but we knew that was a joke.
[00:34:38] That's pretty funny.
[00:34:40] Is he willing to learn teach stress and live with the fundamentals necessary to make his unit good and believe his great talents for bigger things are not to be wasted.
[00:34:51] Does he like to be with young people can he live with their energy points of view and problems they create?
[00:34:58] Is he willing to take the hard knocks that come from carrying the responsibilities for the failures of his subordinates?
[00:35:06] Do we get the past these things on echo Charles?
[00:35:08] I don't think so. No, we don't.
[00:35:10] Sounds a little like he's training hard or shit.
[00:35:13] Sir, he does.
[00:35:14] Can he Jago at the same time all the balls of training maintenance test administration inspections property communications messes supplies athletics,
[00:35:22] Marksmanship discipline and public relations without dropping any of them.
[00:35:26] I or does an execute is he able to do many things concurrently rather than being a consecutive do or can he manage a complex job?
[00:35:36] Can he receive and carry out orders? Can he follow orders as well as give them?
[00:35:42] So number eight there is he able to do many things concurrently rather than being a consecutive do or opposite of prior exercise next.
[00:35:50] It's like I'm going to I need to be able to do multiple things at once.
[00:35:53] Here's what's interesting.
[00:35:55] I highlighted that and I started I was thinking about it as I read through the rest of the book.
[00:35:59] He starts to go into a a delineation and a bifurcation between between the title of book leader and commander.
[00:36:09] And what he starts talking about is when you're a leader, squad leader, put two leader at company it changes to commander.
[00:36:17] And now what you have to do is realize that you've got to you've got to be able to task people to do things right you got to be able to delegate.
[00:36:25] And so as a leader it's like prioritize next you as a commander. Yes, you're going to prioritize next.
[00:36:31] But you're going to prioritize delegate and then have other people doing multiple things at the same time.
[00:36:36] I mean when we were going on an operation for example, did we say okay right now we're only going to set security.
[00:36:44] We're not going to do sensitive site exploitation.
[00:36:47] We're not going to do a search right now. We're only going to set security. No, we set security.
[00:36:50] Then we start interrogating prisoners. We start searching. We start organizing.
[00:36:56] There's multiple things that you're doing at the same time.
[00:36:59] So that's different than hey, we've got we've got we're getting attacked with multiple problems right now.
[00:37:06] We need to focus on the biggest problem.
[00:37:08] And it also starts to lean into talking about delegation and how and you know, I've always said even when I'd explain prioritize next.
[00:37:17] I say these words. Once you've got that problem solved or you've got it going in the right direction, then you can move on to the next problem.
[00:37:27] So if I look if we're getting a contact from the south and I go late, take it between go start knocking those guys out.
[00:37:32] I don't even worry about you anymore. I'm good.
[00:37:35] Like I might check in with you five minutes later to make sure you're good, but meanwhile what am I doing?
[00:37:40] I'm saying Seth, I'll continue the assault on this building, right?
[00:37:42] It's not like I'm saying everyone Seth, everyone on mine.
[00:37:45] No, if you can handle it, you handle it. Another way you used to explain this is let's say you're building a building.
[00:37:53] And you've got to get one of the rooms electrical done because they're going to put drywall in that room today.
[00:38:02] And you've got ten electricians on site and the room is small.
[00:38:08] Does that mean you take all ten of your electricians and you pack them in at that room and put them all to work?
[00:38:12] Because it's there, you don't need that many you need for guys in there.
[00:38:16] That's the fastest and most efficient you can get it done.
[00:38:18] So you take those for guys, you put them in that room and you take the other six guys and they can start doing something else.
[00:38:22] You don't just say that's the number one priority everyone just sitting there and do nothing.
[00:38:25] For guys do it and everyone wants to watch them.
[00:38:27] No, you handle the problem, you get it moving in the right direction, then you move on to the next.
[00:38:32] You then you can take the remaining resources and apply them to the next thing.
[00:38:37] That makes me think about target fixation, which is what we talk about with the experiment with with the prioritized next year, which it's really easy.
[00:38:44] Like this is the priority to get so focused on that.
[00:38:47] But I mean, the example you just gave like, life take your built-in and take you hit that target the south and then south you continue to the assault.
[00:38:54] Like you wouldn't even say it's safe continue to the south because he's going to do it.
[00:38:58] And you talk about how your greatest goal is to go out on operations and not say anything.
[00:39:03] And I used to think that like that was like, I wanted to be the leader like the John Wayne, Sans of Evil Gima with my helmet on sideways and my gun and highport is my finger is point.
[00:39:15] You know, like the classic army man with a finger pointing and his leader with his is his gun and highport pointed to the sky.
[00:39:23] And so many times for money in the middle of a big gunfight where you're like, I'm not saying anything at all.
[00:39:28] My team's doing what they need to do the fire team leaders are running their guys are squad leaders running their guys are the leading petty officers doing his thing the chiefs doing his thing.
[00:39:36] I can think to steps ahead.
[00:39:38] So I mean, that's you have to be able to do that.
[00:39:41] That's decentralized command and when you had a team that's running that then you can you can handle 12 or 15 problems the same time because each of the teams is doing their thing.
[00:39:50] I was talking to a client today and he was talking to me about how he sometimes has meetings.
[00:39:59] He'll have eight blocked meetings a day or ten that he has to go to and he gets done. He's like, yeah, I know I got this meeting this meeting and I had him pull up his calendar and he's talking me through each one of these meetings.
[00:40:13] And I said, um, what's wrong with you? Like what is wrong with you that every like each one of your teams needs to talk to you every single day.
[00:40:26] That's crazy to me. That's crazy to me.
[00:40:29] That's not decentralized command. That is centralized command. So you aren't given the people the right direction. They're not hearing what you're saying.
[00:40:37] They don't have the guidelines you haven't given them the trust. Do you been an easy, but there's a bunch of reasons why it could be happening, but it shouldn't be happening. You shouldn't have to attend those meetings all day long every day.
[00:40:49] Because that's not decentralized command. It's not efficient.
[00:40:53] What happens if you aren't in those meetings? Well, the guys want no to do. Okay, well, there's your problem.
[00:40:59] Give them the guidance and let them run. And if you're down on the weeds trying to solve those problems, which is what you're doing in the meetings, then you can't. Who's actually taking a step back?
[00:41:08] But that's, you know, when you wrote in that the decentralized command chapter, an extreme ownership that.
[00:41:13] I mean, we, we, that would have been a horrible blue on blue situation that happened. If you were down on the weeds trying to tell, you know, stoner,
[00:41:19] sestone had to run his buto, you know, that's just the way it is. So I think that's your job as the leader should be to take a step back and thanks strategically.
[00:41:29] The next step, the next step out for that. And you can't if you're down on the weeds and make it make it make it make it make it.
[00:41:33] And, but you can also see where people need help and you could step in temporarily when you take a step back and you got teams actually handling those problems, which you did all the time as a ground force commander when you're like, come over.
[00:41:46] I'm talking to the house, we call it target security, welcome that's what's going on. Check in with me. I give you a quick update on what's going on. You kind of, then you'd move to kind of where you were needed, you know, where people might need more resources or hey, we need some more guys outside, you know, can we, can you guys spare a fire team?
[00:42:00] Or hey, when you're more guys in the house, let's bring a fire team in or whatever, maybe.
[00:42:04] Yep, you know, got to do that.
[00:42:07] Continue and down this list. Can he receive and carry out orders? Can he follow orders as well as give them?
[00:42:16] Can he stand tough competition from like units and still retain a spirit of cooperation and teamwork with him?
[00:42:26] That's outside the wire. Is he physically and emotionally fit to carry the load? That's what you and I just talked about. I talked about the mental side, you talked about the physical side, they're both freaking grueling.
[00:42:40] Does he have the courage to make and stand by tough decisions? Are he and his family willing to live in a goldfish bowl where their actions are closely observed by both subordinate and superior?
[00:42:54] Is he still enthusiastic and cheerful when confronted with seemingly impossible tasks to perform with inadequate means?
[00:43:02] Is he willing to leave a warm office to check and supervise training maintenance and many other activities of his unit? Is he willing to take responsibility himself and correct the situation rather than blame it on the staff of a higher head quarters or on a subordinate when things go wrong in his unit?
[00:43:21] Man, we owe this guy some money.
[00:43:25] That's pretty phenomenal. He's capturing the burden of leadership so well. By obviously someone who's been and lived in a multitude of levels.
[00:43:38] I think so often we talk to frontline troopers or frontline leaders. If I wasn't the senior rigs, everything would be great and they don't fully understand the burden of leadership. That's a tough thing, not everybody can do that. And there are a lot of people that don't want that.
[00:43:54] And I think once they get there, they realize maybe that ain't for me.
[00:44:00] Next, is he willing to do the best with what he has even though what he has seems inadequate? Is he confident he can produce a superior unit with the usual run of manpower?
[00:44:13] Can he inspire personnel to produce outstanding accomplishments? Is he willing to take a chance on being relieved for attaining only mediocre results?
[00:44:24] Does he really want command rather than just to get command on his record?
[00:44:31] And I just realized he's got a lot of these 20 questions. There's like three or four questions in each one. He snuck some in on us.
[00:44:38] But what a great outline, just to just to check yourself and see where you're at. See how in the game you are.
[00:44:51] Next, what does the soldier expect from his commander?
[00:44:57] Having dealt with the prerequisites of command. So that's what we just did. I offer these thoughts on what soldiers look for in their commanders regardless of branch of service.
[00:45:10] Honest, just and fair treatment, men admire a strict officer if he is also just.
[00:45:17] And officer who tries to be a good fellow loses his grip early and officer cannot be expected to know everything. He cannot bluff his men and retain their respect.
[00:45:27] When he does not know, he should say so and then find an announce the answer.
[00:45:34] Like we're laughing as reading this, you're laughing as a reading this. This is like straight out of leadership strategy and tactics.
[00:45:41] Just it's crazy to sit here and read this. You asked that question all the time like who's got it all figured out who has all the answers and nobody. So why would you even try to pretend like you do people.
[00:45:51] You know, and then we get that question for the leaders like well the lose respect for me.
[00:45:56] You know if I if I like I've got to pretend like I know it all and like no everyone knows you don't know at all. So so they know you don't know and if you're pretending they're losing respect for you.
[00:46:05] If you can actually admit you don't know and take ownership, then it over mistake, whatever it happened, then obviously they respect is going up.
[00:46:13] I'll tell you another tricky situation that this offers some insight into it. It doesn't offer a different answer, but I've seen leaders back into a corner where you know,
[00:46:23] like you know, late screwed something up and whatever the mitigating circumstances were, you know, I say you know what though, late it's I got a punishment.
[00:46:35] You know, late late didn't finish the project on time. I'm writing him up. I told him I was going to write him up. I'm going to write him up and let you know you come to me and say hey boss, I get it.
[00:46:43] I'm going to give you some mistakes that I made and I go yep, doesn't matter right new up and I feel like I'm going to lose respect of people if I don't be like drop the hammer on you.
[00:46:53] And the fact of the matter is you don't if you're if you're a reasonable human being and you understood you you listen to the mitigating circumstances of situation and say, you know what I really hope that this doesn't happen again.
[00:47:10] I'm going to let you off the hook. But you came to me with a plan on how you're going to fix these things don't ever allow to happen again.
[00:47:22] You respect for me doesn't go down people don't think oh, jocquoise weak they think we got a boss it's going to take care of our people. Now look, if you have somebody that's just out of you know does something totally off the wall, of course, punishment must be dealt out.
[00:47:36] And it's a week to be reasonable I guess that sums it up.
[00:47:42] Conspeaking of punishment a commander should administer punishment in an impersonal way and to a degree that fits the circumstances and the offense.
[00:47:51] When a man pays his debt the commander should fit forget the incident.
[00:47:57] I know like you might have a repeat of fact. I get it bro, I get you general clerk, but that one you know you know and I think what he's saying there what what I interpret that as is is what you talk about when the first chapter of extreme ownership this horrible blue on blue situation that was tragic that was terrible.
[00:48:16] And you know the you know our commanding officers coming to to you know find out what happened and we think okay man they're probably going to fire someone for this and there's a lot of stake and then you talk about by taking ownership.
[00:48:28] My implement and a plan to make sure that never happen again the boss actually his trust increased and you rather than decrease so.
[00:48:35] And I think when people take ownership and the implement a solution to make sure that you see hey there fixing that problem. You are gaining trusted and even if something bad happened so it's not that you're.
[00:48:45] It's not that you're forgetting about it, but you're certainly like you're not holding it against.
[00:48:49] Yeah, and I think that's the key thing isn't that's not the literal term forget but you know I'm not going to look at you and go well you know.
[00:48:55] I don't know, Dave last time you didn't quite do that. Did you do no it's okay you you you major mistake we figured out what the punishment is going to be you did your time for your crime we're going to move on and I'm not going to hold it over your head that being said.
[00:49:11] You know I'm paying attention make it sure you're not a repeat offender courage every man experiences fear in a crisis the commander cannot show it he must fortify himself by learning to control his emotions.
[00:49:25] I'm not crazy to read consideration. Do them so this is again this is all into the topic what does the soldier expect from his commander consideration do them as mature professional soldiers regardless of age or grade soldiers should be treated as mature individuals they are men engaged in honorable profession and deserve to be treated as such.
[00:49:48] I'm going to start between officers observation of these currencies between seniors and subordinates is not belittling to either their evidences of the alertness pride and good manners of your men.
[00:49:58] The commanders rank should be used to serve his subordinates it is not a reward and is not a license to an exercise idiocync crazy rank has one object to enable the officer to fulfill his responsibilities.
[00:50:16] Subordinates expect the commander to play his part according to his position they do not regret but grudge him his rank if he uses them if he uses it in the interest of his subordinates and superiors.
[00:50:32] So if you're using your rank in the interest of your troops we're good. If you're using it for yourself we got to miss you we got a problem you know that part about the professional these are professionals treat them like professionals.
[00:50:48] It's a reminder of our experience in the remote working alongside us soldiers and Marines and someone you always said about these guys are true professionals they're.
[00:51:02] And it was interesting how there are some special operators that did not treat them that way because they felt like oh they were special and they went through some you know specialized training and they were part of a specialized unit and they had better gear whatever and.
[00:51:18] And they were looking at us like oh man the Seals are you and they look at our short barrel little rifles and our cool gear and we had better night vision all this stuff and I'm looking back at these young private's thinking man these guys have fired more rounds of their weapons and all of us put together in the entire task unit are ever going to fire and our.
[00:51:40] The entire careers in the SEAL teams I mean that's how much combat they were seeing and it was just.
[00:51:54] What an honor and privilege of being I mean they were they were absolute professionals and that served as well by treating them accordingly.
[00:52:02] But it's like one of those little golden rules. Why is this so hard treat people with respect treat people respect it's it treat people respect.
[00:52:18] Personal interest taken in them as individuals again what is a soldier expect from his commander personal interest taken in them as individuals a good officer will know the names background and individual characteristics of his men he must have a genuine personal interest in them or they will not have it in him.
[00:52:35] Each individual has problems there is no easy way of getting a grip on men than by helping them solve their personal problems that give them great concern and officer should not however be too familiar with his men.
[00:52:49] Good soldiers do not expect it and usually resent it is not necessary to call soldiers by their first names even if the officer sleeps in the same fox old them.
[00:53:00] But not too close as we like to say that that caught me of leadership.
[00:53:08] Yeah, you know that the the expression and I I didn't ever hear anyone say this.
[00:53:17] And I started saying it a little while ago I don't know maybe it's not an I don't know I'm not trying to take credit for something.
[00:53:24] But you know you know the term that we'd say and the teams which was take care your gear in your girl take, are you which is means Hey when you get done with a dive you take your dive rig and you do the proper maintenance on it.
[00:53:39] When you get done with the pepper parachute jump you take your parish and you do proper maintenance on it when you get done with a firefight or operation you take your weapon into the proper maintenance.
[00:53:43] proper maintenance, are you take your your gear and your gear will be there to take
[00:53:45] your you same thing with people you take your people and your people will take care of you.
[00:53:52] That's true. As you say in the thumb, I'm taking out some of those tax messages that you've
[00:53:57] said echo Charles. Those things are going to become public I think. Yeah, might tell a
[00:54:03] different story in a little way, but why is it so hard for people to respect people? There's no
[00:54:09] respect whatsoever. My text messages to echo Charles, they do have a high level of disrespect.
[00:54:18] And this also brings to the fact that I believe, I believe, I believe, I'm not 100% sure.
[00:54:23] I believe that I have a certain guard passing technique that is called the disrespect.
[00:54:29] Literally. That I actually named because of you because I would use this guard pass and it's
[00:54:34] so disrespectful that you would you would feel disrespected. Did you think of that? No, you did.
[00:54:42] I remember very vividly. Expand. I like this. You know after it's just very disrespectful.
[00:54:49] That's it. Yeah, I think that's a good question. Is it that hard to to be respectful?
[00:54:55] And apparently it is. So, yeah, man. There's a fine line between Jess and
[00:55:03] Jess from SPAC. Maybe a little more of a gray area. Yeah, yeah, it gets blurry sometimes.
[00:55:08] I find some good screenshots and let's post some some Jocco echo texts. I think that'll be
[00:55:15] flood. Okay. Back to the book. There's nothing wrong today with the following instructions written
[00:55:24] by Baron Vaughn, Stubin at Valley Forge and published in the continent published by the
[00:55:32] continental Congress. Instructions for the captain. A captain cannot be too careful of the company.
[00:55:41] A captain cannot be too careful of the company. The state has committed to his charge.
[00:55:49] He must pay the greatest attention to the health of his men, their discipline, arms,
[00:55:54] accoutrements, ammunition, clothes, and necessary. His first object should be to gain the love of
[00:56:04] his men by treating them with every possible kindness and humanity and acquiring into their complaints
[00:56:11] and when well-founded seeing them redressed. He should know every man of his company by name and character.
[00:56:18] He should often visit those who are sick, speak tenderly to them, see that the public provision
[00:56:24] weather of medicine or diet is duly administered and procure them besides such comforts and
[00:56:31] conveniences as are in his power. The attachment that arises from this kind of attention to the
[00:56:37] second wounded is almost inconceivable. It will moreover by the means of preserving the lives of many
[00:56:46] valuable men. So there you go. What a incredible thing to be able to read.
[00:56:56] Instructions for a captain from Valley Forge. That's powerful. It's humbling as well too.
[00:57:07] I think about all of my shortcomings and how much I could have used that guidance directly
[00:57:13] prior to being a chartered-up-attuned commander or even now just reviewing that and thinking about it.
[00:57:21] It captures, I think, like I said, the burden of leadership and a massive way and all of its
[00:57:27] acquired of you, which is a lot. Everything, under-person, all the time.
[00:57:33] And if you take care of your men, you're going to take care of you. And if you have this,
[00:57:37] if you have this inconceivable attachment, what that does is deserves the hives.
[00:57:47] So when you are a tight unit, I've often said that the thing that makes a seal platoon strong
[00:57:55] is just the bonds that you have. That's what's going to make the difference. In any military,
[00:58:03] you're not just the seal. I mean, I can talk about the seal platoon because I've been in them, but any
[00:58:07] military unit. What is it that makes a really strong unit? It's how tight they are and what makes
[00:58:12] people tight? You take care of them. It's it. It goes on. Instructions for the Lieutenant.
[00:58:22] He should endeavor to gain the love of his men by his attention to everything which may contribute
[00:58:28] to their health and convenience. He should often visit them at different hours, inspect their
[00:58:33] manner of living. See that their provisions are good and well-cooked and as far as possible,
[00:58:38] obliged them to take their meals at regulated hours. He should pay attention to their complaints
[00:58:44] and when well-founded endeavor to get them redressed, but discourage them from complaining on
[00:58:49] every frivolous occasion. So for the captain and for the Lieutenant, what are you trying to do?
[00:58:55] You're trying to build relationships with your team. You're trying to take care of your people.
[00:59:01] And by the way, those are the instructions. Not one. That's it.
[00:59:08] Next. I was just going to say, I think that's the most profound thing to me.
[00:59:11] You think if Hachor of the saying, everyone, every officer should be required to read this,
[00:59:19] you would think it's going to be talking about tactics. You would know how to set up,
[00:59:22] you know, based a fire and your assault elements or how to position your troops and it's not
[00:59:29] that at all. It's all about building relationships with your team. What's required of you to actually
[00:59:34] be a leader? It's how you manage and lead and that's pretty phenomenal. And you said at all
[00:59:43] a time, something that we talk about often which is the hardest part of combat leadership is always
[00:59:51] the human aspect, not the tactics. That's the easy part. That's when I wrote the forward
[00:59:57] for about face, and he turned. He turned against. He said, hey, we can't win this war if we keep
[01:00:05] fighting like this. And they asked him how we're talking about that interview, that famous interview,
[01:00:14] you know, he gets asked, could you, could you become are you two emotional about the
[01:00:21] war in Vietnam? And Hachor says one couldn't have spent the number of years. I spent in Vietnam
[01:00:27] without becoming emotionally involved. One couldn't see the number of young studs die or terribly
[01:00:33] wounded without becoming emotionally involved. I have just seen the American nation spend so much of
[01:00:41] its wonderful, great young men in this country. I have seen our national wealth being drained away.
[01:00:46] I see the nation being split a sunder and almost being split apart and almost being split a
[01:00:52] sunder because this war and I'm wondering to what end it will lead to. And quote,
[01:01:00] you know, like that's a guy that loved his troops.
[01:01:03] I can only imagine that burden, you know, with 58,000 dead in the Vietnam war, 58,000 US troops
[01:01:15] killed. And because even at the tiny fraction of that number, you know, that we've experienced
[01:01:20] in Afghanistan and Iraq, coming back from Iraq when we came back from a body, I think one of the
[01:01:25] hardest things for me just after having lost Mark, with Ryan was blind, Mike, you know, we lost
[01:01:31] Mike, you dealt with tune. And a good friend of mine who's hopefully going to be on this podcast
[01:01:38] with you sometime, Elliott, who was severely wounded and he was in Brook Army Medical Center in San
[01:01:45] Antonio, which is the primary burn care facility for all of the US military. And so I went to
[01:01:52] spend a much of time with him there and from December for, you know, really through much of like
[01:01:57] 2007 back there regularly and trying to, you know, just help him, support him as family wherever we could.
[01:02:04] And just witnessing those burn victims in there, you know, when Idees that were causing,
[01:02:13] you know, the enemy's most valuable weapon and you're walking into those,
[01:02:17] besides you, rooms and you're seeing young soldiers and Marines with no lips, no no noses,
[01:02:23] no ears, just face, you know, faces burned off. It was one of the most horrific things I've
[01:02:30] I've ever had experience. And when I would hear people on the news talking about the war and
[01:02:35] pontificating about the blood and treasure that we'd spent and they had no inkling of just how
[01:02:43] deep and personal that was, you know. And again, that's just a fraction in the Iraq War of
[01:02:50] Experience in Vietnam. I can only imagine, for him and for every other Vietnam better and out there.
[01:02:56] What that was like. But there's no way to not make that personal.
[01:03:02] Yeah, and you can see the root of that is, you know, it's the same root like you said earlier,
[01:03:09] these things that you uncover over time, you know, if you take care, if you, if you love your
[01:03:15] troops, that's going to be, that's, that's what it's about. And
[01:03:21] hackworth knew that. You know that. I know that general Clark knew that. That's the way it is.
[01:03:32] Goes on here. Loyalty. Loyalty to superiors and subordinates is a basic requirement.
[01:03:41] Criticism of a commander's superiors in front of subordinates lays him open to the same
[01:03:47] treatment. He should stand up for his men as he expects them to stand up for him.
[01:03:55] You can, you can, you can almost see hackworth's life unfold, right? Like you can see that
[01:04:01] that statement in everything that he did. And officers presence when the conditions are unpleasant
[01:04:09] and when the going is tough, sharing the situation of the men means a great deal to them.
[01:04:16] Pick up the brass. The commander should act as a buffer between superiors and subordinates.
[01:04:24] He should protect his men from harassment that comes from above, but still get the job done.
[01:04:34] Yeah, I know sometimes I would pull back the curtain for a few minutes and like show you
[01:04:39] what was happening above me in the chair to command on all different fronts and look,
[01:04:46] everyone up above me in the chain of man doing their job, but it's pressure and it's
[01:04:52] it's kind of maddening. And sometimes I would be asking you for something and you'd get pissed off
[01:04:58] about it, you know, that'll you need this for a night's sake, come here for a minute.
[01:05:02] Let me, let me, let you take a look behind this curtain for 15 seconds. You look back there,
[01:05:06] see that sausage get made and say, okay, I'm good. I'll get you what you need, I'm out. Thank you.
[01:05:11] You did it. You always had a great job of screening us from that. But I think that was very valuable
[01:05:17] for me because it gave me a new perspective. You know, like, oh, they're asking us for this,
[01:05:22] you know, I'm getting mad about it and then I realize like how much you're actually screening out,
[01:05:26] you know, of that harassment. Like, I'm keeping these guys off your back so that you guys can go
[01:05:30] do what you need to do. Next, that their needs be anticipated and met a good soldier has needs
[01:05:39] both spiritual and physical and the commander should do everything possible to anticipate and meet
[01:05:45] those needs at the same time. He should provide all the comforts and privileges practical.
[01:05:52] This is not meant to imply that he should cuddle his men or treat them as babies. Like, how
[01:05:57] beautiful is this dichotomy? Just when you think, oh, maybe he's a little off track here. Maybe I'm a
[01:06:02] little bit no, this does not mean to imply that he should cuddle his men or treat them like babies.
[01:06:07] Such things as a hot meal when it is not expected, unit parties, liberal past,
[01:06:12] plat-privileges and good recreational facilities are more, more to the point.
[01:06:18] Next thing that the soldier expects from his commander to be kept informed and told the reason why
[01:06:25] the commander should keep his men informed at all time, tell them the reasons behind decisions
[01:06:31] affecting them. Many jobs seem purposeless unless the facts behind them are known.
[01:06:39] He should continually take action to offset rumors and speculation by giving his men all the
[01:06:44] information he can. Yeah, we all this guy, money, dude. We all this guy, money.
[01:06:50] You know what though? You're probably, I mean, obviously there's direct influence
[01:06:57] through David Hackworth, you know, in a bow face from General Clark, I think you could go back to
[01:07:05] the Greek hop lights or the, you know, the Roman legions and probably find some centurion who's
[01:07:10] riding the same stuff. I mean, they're learning the same stuff. Some, some different aspect of
[01:07:14] different terminology, a little bit different, you know, a vastly different era millennia apart,
[01:07:19] but it's, it's human nature as we just said has a change and I bet there would be something very similar.
[01:07:27] And just to make sure everyone realizes we're not just talking about war, we are talking about
[01:07:33] leadership, we're talking about leadership and business. You need to tell your people what's going on
[01:07:38] and they need to understand why they're doing what they're doing. I'm talking about your family,
[01:07:41] they need to understand what's going on and they need to understand why they're doing what they're doing.
[01:07:45] And any situation where you're interacting with other human beings, these rules apply.
[01:07:55] And they apply to the point, why do we know that they work because they've been tested? We tested them,
[01:08:00] but these guys test them and even crazier conditions, harder conditions, three freaking wars.
[01:08:06] That's, that's one of the most common things we're getting at Ashlyn front these days is
[01:08:10] questions about managing the family schedule and how do I work from home with so many people
[01:08:15] still working from home? You know, it's, those are like, a good bulk of the questions are about that
[01:08:22] and it's directly applicable. Well, the other thing that's been interesting is with COVID hit,
[01:08:27] you know, most of the companies that we work with are good companies that want to be awesome.
[01:08:31] We do get some companies that come to us, sometimes against their will brought to us by the
[01:08:35] border, whatever that we are going to fix them, help fix them. Most of the companies we work with
[01:08:40] are good companies that want to do better when COVID hit. So these companies aren't companies that
[01:08:46] are struggling. These are companies that just want to do, you know, better. And so they would implement
[01:08:51] the, the principles that we talk about, implement, cover move, implement simple prioritizing
[01:08:55] next year, decentralized command, default aggressive, you know, extreme ownership. So they implement
[01:08:59] these things and, and yes, they're absolutely start doing better. And we watch them and we get feedback
[01:09:05] from them and their profits go and they become more efficient and more effective and they start
[01:09:09] taking market share. Everything goes awesome. And it's cool. And everyone goes, hey, yeah, that's great.
[01:09:13] And we're super excited about it. When COVID hit and all of a sudden there was companies that
[01:09:16] weren't in dire situations and we're able to utilize the principles to survive. Yes, but also
[01:09:26] start to actually go on the attack and thrive. That was pretty epic. Because it basically was like,
[01:09:34] have you ever, do you ever pull a reserve parachute? Never had. Yeah, I only did it one
[01:09:39] time. And all the other times, I'd be like, yeah, cool, you know, I'm got to reserve on the time
[01:09:43] that I pulled it. I was like, this thing's freaking awesome, bro. Thank you for backing this
[01:09:48] thing correctly. Case appeared in the rigor, you know, because you, because normally it's just like,
[01:09:53] yeah, yeah, it's, it's work, you know, it's on there. It's all good. And that's kind of what
[01:09:56] companies you. Okay, we're doing really good hair profits are up all these quality positive things.
[01:10:00] But also when they're faced with real hardships and challenges, they're like, what should we do
[01:10:05] here prioritize next year? Oh, yeah, okay, or die. Oh, if they no longer exist exactly. Hey,
[01:10:11] what, you know, we've got this going. We got at least people working at home. What should we do?
[01:10:14] This is decentralized command. Yeah, we've been doing that. Well, yeah, now you need to do it harder.
[01:10:19] You need to make sure everyone understands what the mission is, what the goal is, what the
[01:10:22] end state is. You need to communicate with them. They need to understand why they're doing,
[01:10:25] what they're doing. Can, can you make that happen? Yes, we can. Okay, execute. You know,
[01:10:30] that makes me think there was an educator. Remember on Eophone line a few weeks ago, as they were
[01:10:36] about to go back to school, you know, in her state or her district. She was an educator. She was
[01:10:42] talking about how crazy it was and how much uncertainty it was. And you said,
[01:10:47] we didn't learn this stuff in a boy scout trip. You know, how this, we learned this on the battlefield.
[01:10:52] It was crazy. It was chaotic. There was a lot of stake. There was a lot of uncertainty about what
[01:10:57] was going to happen. What you need to do is prioritize an execute. That's where this came from.
[01:11:02] I think I know it's getting crazy in that six grade classroom. And I'm telling you, this is going to work.
[01:11:09] And it did. She came back and gave us a great set of stuff. It was, she was implementing that
[01:11:14] and moving forward and doing great. legit. Next thing that the soldier requires is a well-thought-out
[01:11:21] program of training, work and recreation. The commander should keep a balance between training
[01:11:25] and recreation too much of either becomes a drag on the men. Logical progression of training helps
[01:11:31] the helps keep the men from becoming confused. Yeah, this is exactly what we wrote about
[01:11:37] back out of the leadership. Train hard, but train smart. You can smoke people. You can crush
[01:11:40] them to the point where they're not getting any benefit anymore. Next, demands, commensurate with
[01:11:47] capabilities. Neither too great nor too small. A commander should not overload his men with unnecessary
[01:11:54] work. On the other hand, letting men be comforted because they are not working off is just as bad.
[01:12:01] Neither men as individuals nor units be expected to accomplish in possible tax. What do you
[01:12:06] say? You got a balance at that time. It sounds like general Clark had the same experience with
[01:12:10] his soldiers that we always said, like a board team guys, like the most dangerous thing in the
[01:12:15] universe because they're going to figure something out to go cause trouble or because create
[01:12:20] me because rock fights. That was when I was a young team guy. If there was, if we weren't
[01:12:26] being told to do something like sitting around waiting for something, there was a rock fight happening.
[01:12:30] You know, all sons and sons just hit you in the leg with a rock from 20 yards and it's a rock
[01:12:34] fight or actually actually wasn't rock fights. There was a couple of those, but most of you
[01:12:40] we're not talking about like tossing a pebble. You talking about like fucking, no, when it was,
[01:12:44] it wasn't rock fights. That's when I was a kid. When I was a kid there was rock fights. And I don't
[01:12:49] know what you're even thinking when you're having rock fights. But we had, we had BB gun wars.
[01:12:53] Yeah, we had BB gun wars too. You're buddy in the leg with your, we had to be on wars. If you got
[01:12:59] shot, you got shot, you had to take off one layer of clothing. By the way, zero, I prove we were like
[01:13:04] it was just the dumbest thing. What's that? I got hit in the face one. I came home and told my
[01:13:10] eyes swollen so shut. And my dad was like, son, what happened to you? I got hit with a spear.
[01:13:16] We were having spear wars. You know, sharp and sticks throwing them to each other to hit me.
[01:13:20] I mean, it missed my eye by like three millimeters. My dad was like, you're an idiot. Don't ever do that again.
[01:13:29] Anyway, rock fights. Oh yeah, not rock fights. Hucking rocks at objects. It'd be like, hey,
[01:13:33] who can hit that? So I guess it's similar to the pebble, but it'd be like, hey, who can hit that
[01:13:37] lamp over there? You know, that street light or something? Well, it started saying they're
[01:13:41] hucking rocks at it. Speaking of board team, as in rock fights, so my, my first deployment
[01:13:45] for we worked together in testing in Bruser in 2004. So after your first deployment to Iraq,
[01:13:49] one of our super solid team guys, you know, in an, in an, in an arpotune,
[01:13:53] was throwing rocks through the window of, uh, and got in all kinds of trouble because he damaged this
[01:14:01] smash and shattered a window of, of, of this, like, former Saddam Palace. And they literally like,
[01:14:07] like pulled in a ward form. I mean, it was crazy. This, this palace had a J. Dam drop with the
[01:14:14] metal of it. It was completely like, for some reason, they got all upset that he, like,
[01:14:19] shattered the windows. What's his J now? Uh, a giant bomb drop from the sky. It's, it's, it's a,
[01:14:25] it's a GPS guy to bomb. God. You have something, something,
[01:14:31] joint direct attack munition. I don't know. I don't know. We're going to, I don't know.
[01:14:35] I don't know how fast we're going to deal with it. Where's they when you need to,
[01:14:37] we're going to deal with it. You know what, there weren't too many times a task in a Bruser,
[01:14:41] where we had bored team guys because you always had us busy doing stuff. But the one time that we
[01:14:48] did let it go, um, the Andrew Paul got volunteered to demonstrate the new tasers that we got.
[01:14:56] I remember that. And Chris Kyle, tazed him and everyone sat around filming it and
[01:15:02] laughing Andrew said that was the worst experience in the entire life. The cool thing there was
[01:15:07] safety officer there that someone someone made like we put out the Jitsu mats because this was
[01:15:13] remember we're new Jitsu in the morning and the high bay there and I forget, you know, I heard
[01:15:19] someone came like, hey, Joko, they're about to taste Andrew Paul. I'm like, up to work. I'm like,
[01:15:23] all right, I better go to your earmuffs. Did you go, Jay? I don't, I don't even remember.
[01:15:27] I might have been one of those things where I was like, all right, let the boys do what the
[01:15:30] boys are going to do. Maybe I just saw the video. Yeah, I think he's probably saw the,
[01:15:35] I saw the video, but I saw that there was a mat. They took our green, they were actually my
[01:15:39] mats. They took them, put them down underneath to, he fell face down on the freaking mat. Thankfully.
[01:15:46] Yeah, that's a bored team guys bad. Didn't he say he was going to fight through it?
[01:15:54] I think so. He did not fight through it. Andrew tells a tough, tough dude, but that
[01:16:00] days are talking about. All right, back to the book. Guide lines to orders.
[01:16:08] Give orders. This is ridiculous. Give orders in a manner which indicates you expect compliance.
[01:16:13] Do not issue orders. You cannot enforce. Give clear, complete, correct orders and follow them.
[01:16:20] I mean, the reason I said this ridiculous is because it's just crazy that the actual
[01:16:24] verbiage that we use when we brief is, you know, give simple clear, concise guidance. And here they're
[01:16:30] saying, clear, complete, correct. Only by long and careful training can the commander achieve
[01:16:36] perfection in giving orders. Ambiguity, vagueness, and incompleteness of orders are to blame for the
[01:16:43] most disobedience and failure to comply. Which is when I say, if your team isn't doing what you,
[01:16:53] what you want them to do, the very first person you should check is yourself. And here it is.
[01:16:57] And yet that's so hard for any of us to do. You get frustrated with the person from not doing what
[01:17:03] you wanted them to do. And instead of actually looking at yourself and saying, hey, okay,
[01:17:07] obviously I wasn't clear. I could have done a better job. The words of an order indicate what is
[01:17:13] to be done. The manner in which it delivers generates the spirit in which it will be carried out.
[01:17:19] Alloy orders should be repeated back. Failure to do so will most assuredly result in a
[01:17:28] grave misunderstanding. Only by long and careful training can men learn to receive obey and pass on orders
[01:17:36] to others. Lack of orders does not relieve a commander from acting. You must strive to
[01:17:45] maintain a complete picture of the situation so you can take suitable action in the absence of orders.
[01:17:54] It is a wise officer who refrains from criticism until he can make logical, constructive suggestions.
[01:18:04] An officer should be as good as his word. He should not make promises. He cannot keep or make
[01:18:11] decisions. He cannot support. Just perfect guidance on how you tell people what it did you want
[01:18:21] to know, how you give orders. The combat commander, a positive leadership, battle appears to
[01:18:32] add peculiar problems to command. But when further analyze the problems are merely magnifications
[01:18:37] of those present in training. The great difference between combat and training is the presence of
[01:18:42] danger and confusion in combat. These two obstacles can be overcome only by positive leadership
[01:18:47] and by developing a positive and automatic reaction in the individual soldier.
[01:18:54] That's cool. It says this like we absolutely added confusion, massive amounts of confusion into
[01:19:00] our training to simulate the we couldn't you know you can't shoot people obviously during training.
[01:19:06] You can't add that element of danger but you certainly can't add some freaking confusion.
[01:19:10] Yeah, the term I think I always use was chaos and mayhem. You know like, like activate chaos and
[01:19:16] mayhem and your trade instructors were awesome to do that. They weren't very awesome at doing that.
[01:19:21] These positive traits of the commander and of the soldier are acquired during training,
[01:19:25] training in peace, training in wartime before combat, training during battle and by mental
[01:19:29] factors not easily described, desire to overcome the enemy devotion to country and to organization
[01:19:37] and personal devotion to the commander. When a disciplined unit is spurred by the mental drives
[01:19:44] mentioned, it fights not only well but brilliantly. Those are some awesome things to strive for.
[01:19:52] The willingness to overcome the enemy devotion to country and organization and personal
[01:19:59] devotion to the commander. Battle is fought for real money and for keeps battles are won by teamwork,
[01:20:11] not by individuals acting alone. The only teamwork that can stand up under the confusion and
[01:20:18] constant danger, feeling of fear and physical exhaustion is the battle of instinctive teamwork.
[01:20:24] Success in combat is do largely to endurance on the battlefield the day after day strain of
[01:20:31] living in the dirt of going without sleeping food, of the constant threat of death will cause
[01:20:36] men, cause the man who is physically or mentally weak to quit. Fateege makes cowards.
[01:20:43] Men in good physical condition are the last to tire. I would definitely agree with that for sure.
[01:20:55] You know what, Phil Man? I was just thinking about that going through the strain and stress of
[01:20:59] like I think I just think about the support of the team. You were talking about the
[01:21:04] bonds between teams and relationships and just that attitude. You know, you talked about the
[01:21:11] respect of the commander and obviously we always know whenever we want to let you down into you
[01:21:17] bruise or clearly. But I think understanding the mission and just looking at another guy that
[01:21:23] you could be under fire in a crazy situation and I look at like Tony, Tony, but I look back at you
[01:21:29] or even that situation I said earlier were Dave Burr, a couple of our guys ran down to
[01:21:35] grab the palatable water like interact with you or when you came down for delivery
[01:21:40] to resupply us. You know, you're just showing up for just a few minutes checking us out,
[01:21:45] seeing how things are going. And I think just the look and you're out like hey cool how
[01:21:50] things going down here. It's no matter what the physical strain is on you, you know, or what you're
[01:21:55] going through mental strain. It's I think that support of your teammates around you and like the attitude
[01:22:02] particularly the kind of attitude of humor in I think the midst of some really dire situations.
[01:22:07] I think it was always super helpful for us. Yeah. That the attitude that people have,
[01:22:17] any I would love to tell you it's leaders but as you know full well it's not just leaders. It
[01:22:22] can be anyone in the pollton. Anyone on a team, anyone in the organization when things are going bad
[01:22:28] and someone says dude we got this you know or whatever someone instead of saying oh you know hey
[01:22:33] we got to roll out again. You're going to be kidding me someone goes good let's bring it. You know like
[01:22:38] that little thing the best example or man there it is and the best example I can think of is
[01:22:46] we'd wrote about in the planning chapter of of extrem ownership which you know me and everyone
[01:22:51] knows this jock over about the launch on that hostage rescue operation and me and you're sitting
[01:22:55] in there and and butters are you know Intel and since it comes rolling and it goes they got a ID
[01:23:01] spirit in the yard and bulk up machine gun positions the house and you just looked at me and
[01:23:05] with this big smile on your face like I guess you guys are going to get some and I was like I
[01:23:11] guess we are I mean if that's and that attitude instead of being like you know if you look at me like
[01:23:15] oh no yeah do you think you know maybe we shouldn't go on this you know it was like no you just
[01:23:20] started you were like smiling laughing about it not look obviously we'd planned and for
[01:23:24] contingencies a place that we weren't being call us about it but it was that attitude was contagious
[01:23:29] for everybody you know are markly rolling out on the as the lead turret gunner like
[01:23:34] mark if you're lucky tonight like everybody's a winner you know so pay attention that
[01:23:41] because it's real easy it's real easy it's really easy to let that bad attitude come out
[01:23:50] and you just stifle that thing you just need to stifle it and anybody that wants to talk to me
[01:23:55] about being transparent and showing your feelings I'll say no no actually just be quiet just
[01:24:02] shut up and what you need to do is you go oh this is gonna suck and I'll look at lathe and say
[01:24:08] this you guys are gonna get some watch this let's go bring it
[01:24:17] the importance of endurance on the battlefield is underlined by grants philosophy the idea that in
[01:24:23] every battle that may come a moment when each side is fought out and ready to quit and the belief
[01:24:29] that in such a moment victory will go to the side which is able to make one final effort
[01:24:38] in the heat of a firefight the poor commander will not be able to lead men into danger
[01:24:44] to make them attack or keep order when he and his men are under hostile artillery fire he won't
[01:24:50] be able to execute his plans instead his men will forget teamwork and follow their own plans
[01:24:56] in fighting for survival therefore you must take every opportunity to make your men confident in your
[01:25:01] ability to command and of the skill and toughness of your unit unit morale the prospect of entering
[01:25:09] battle puts every soldier under severe nervous strain dangers real and imaginary are thick around
[01:25:17] them the commander can overcome much of this strain and strengthen the mental endurance of his
[01:25:22] men by teaching them in advance what to expect an event for scene and prepared for will have
[01:25:30] little harmful effect you were talking about the grants philosophy there and I was thinking about
[01:25:40] Chamberlain at Gettysburg we're just at Gettysburg for Eiff battle field and I mean they you know
[01:25:45] he in the the 20th main charged fixed bandets and charged down the hill and low round top that was
[01:25:50] the absolute last inch ever they didn't have any ammo I mean it was it was it was you know
[01:25:56] millimeters close to losing that battle and that would have changed the entire
[01:26:01] title of battle you know if if we're around top of it taken so I think that's such a phenomenal
[01:26:06] example of to me that's that default aggressive mindset of like hey okay we're going to be
[01:26:12] default aggressive to to continue this and that one last bush is going to change the the entire outcome
[01:26:18] there's a famous boxing match with Muhammad Ali and I want to say I want to say
[01:26:28] I can't remember which match it was but it is a brutal boxing match and at one point
[01:26:36] both fight Muhammad Ali's all beat up in whoever he was fighting my forget it was a
[01:26:40] it was incredible fight but he gets back to his corner and he's telling his corner
[01:26:48] caught him off he's done caught my gloves off I'm done and basically his corners like you
[01:26:53] got you know you got to keep going and they look over the other guy didn't answer the bell
[01:26:57] so like that's that's where it's at like if you you can give up right there
[01:27:02] that's something to think about you know like can you just go a little bit more
[01:27:06] can you just go a little bit more back to the book in combat you really see the critical
[01:27:15] importance of high morale and a speed of core morale must be high enough to stand the shock
[01:27:20] and boredom of combat you know actually before I continue here I want to say this that thing
[01:27:26] about giving people heads up about what they're going to face like that you you know you're going
[01:27:32] to like if you I've had fighters where they're they got their first big they're on the big stage
[01:27:40] maybe they're in the UFC for the first time or whatever they get nervous and they don't know what
[01:27:45] that is no one ever told them hey man you're gonna feel you know you're gonna feel sick you're
[01:27:53] gonna feel butterflies T do or T is you know Dean used to corner T do a lot and T do and they just
[01:27:58] they just had a a show about T do versus Chuck and one of the scenes you can see it's T do
[01:28:05] he's right about to walk out and he's throwing up just viciously throwing up and I remember Dean
[01:28:11] telling me T do would get so nervous before fights that he would just start throwing up
[01:28:16] but he understood what it was now imagine you you just going in your first fight and all the
[01:28:22] sudden you start you want to throw up and someone just be like hey just go ahead and throw up
[01:28:26] just get it out you know just get it out of your system it's the same thing in combat you
[01:28:31] gotta say hey listen you're nervous it's okay if you're jittery if you if you feel sick
[01:28:35] if you whatever it's okay that's just your body you know focus in its energy towards where
[01:28:40] it needs to be focused it's perfectly fine but if you don't know that it can be a problem
[01:28:48] back to the book so morale must be high enough to stand the shock and the boredom of combat
[01:28:52] every man must be strong must strongly believe that what he is doing is right he must have
[01:28:57] supreme confidence that he can deal with any situation that he is a better fighter than the enemy
[01:29:02] a spree decor is unit morale every man must feel that his unit is a superb fighting unit and that
[01:29:08] he like the rest will sacrifice even life itself for the unit the spirit is often the difference
[01:29:13] between mediocre and superior armies it was strong in the robin legions and the French troops
[01:29:21] under Napoleon recognize though that the commander must inspire beyond the group a spree
[01:29:29] only deep personal conviction springing from the identification with a cause will drive a man forward
[01:29:35] when his unit is destroyed or scattered personal example the commander should be a model soldier
[01:29:47] he must master the technique of war as it fits his assignment he must improve and expand his
[01:29:54] technical knowledge the commander must strive to make it possible for every soldier to say truthfully
[01:30:00] the old man knows the old man always knows the right thing to do in addition he must exhibit
[01:30:06] daily a fine example of stamina and courage besides his own example the higher commander is also
[01:30:13] represented by his staff officers they too must reflect the superior qualities of their commander above all
[01:30:21] set the proper example
[01:30:29] leading by example there you go the model soldier soldiers morale show me a unit that is well run
[01:30:37] properly trained and ready for combat and I'll show you a unit with high morale
[01:30:41] no commander will readily admit that his units morale is anything other than next
[01:30:46] I wrote the leadership strategy in tax people is asking how do I improve do hard things you
[01:30:50] unimproven morale do hard things as we compare units however it is often obvious that morale
[01:30:59] in some units is more excellent than in others what is morale our manual on leadership defines
[01:31:04] morale is the mental and emotional state of the individual although it is a complex and
[01:31:09] intangible quality the manifestations of its absence in a unit can be detected readily
[01:31:16] in the form of poor appearance of the individuals of the individuals and unit area poor
[01:31:22] discipline and a low state of training that's something I mean obviously a high worth immediately
[01:31:30] applied that you know to the the hard from the hard luck to the hardcore for Italian and I was
[01:31:35] thinking about that with task and bruiser something that we talk about often which is you know
[01:31:40] the initially we were working hard than everybody you know people were working hard
[01:31:46] than we were preparing for scenarios that we the guys had been to Iraq previously like what
[01:31:50] why are we training for this crazy multi-cash little scenario you know that we we didn't experience
[01:31:55] anything like that on the on the battlefield or when the instructors say hey you guys are good to go
[01:31:59] and we said you know what we need to do a few more runs and there was a grumbling around that people
[01:32:03] were people were saying hey we're working harder than we know we're coming in early we're
[01:32:07] staying late we're not taking the night off and going out drinking beers and town we're actually
[01:32:11] planning and training and preparing you know and it's interesting to think about how those
[01:32:17] complaints just faded away as our performance increased and I mean that was morale that's that's
[01:32:23] morale increasing to say we're tasking a bruiser hey why why are we working harder than you know
[01:32:28] these are the taskings because we're tasking a bruiser that's why because we strive to be
[01:32:32] better than everybody and that's what we're gonna do and that's that's that's that's a that's awesome
[01:32:40] 101 more stuff I stole from hack hack with 101 several adjuncts to morale chart three good
[01:32:51] management we all like to be in a unit where things run smoothly where things are planned where
[01:32:55] men do not have to hurry up and wait adequate information men like to be kept informed ahead of time
[01:33:00] of things that affect them or are act to affect them it is far better to for the commander to
[01:33:05] keep his men informed that have the men seek to get such information from rumors high state of
[01:33:11] training if a unit is not well trained it's men know it this fact shakes their confidence especially
[01:33:17] if they anticipate the possibility of using that training in a critical situation chances for advancement
[01:33:23] progress is morale raising to all men knowing that advancement is possible and that excellent
[01:33:29] performance and preparation lead to promotion helps morale good physical and mental condition
[01:33:35] good physical condition goes hand in hand with good mental condition these two elements are basic
[01:33:40] to achieving good morale good administration men like to know that they're paying accounts
[01:33:48] and individual records are correct confidence and equipment are is the best equipment
[01:33:53] best equipment army in the world confidence and commanders men expect their commanders to
[01:34:00] know their jobs to share the hardships with them and to take a personal interest in their
[01:34:04] problems you will not know whether a particular officer or soldier has a problem until someone has
[01:34:08] heard his case a willing ear will gain much confidence comfortable quarters I'm paraphrasing some of
[01:34:15] these mess good food mail service medical attention post exchange facilities leaves and passes
[01:34:22] religious services and character guidance it is especially important that a army be made up of
[01:34:28] mostly young soldiers be provided with facilities for religious services in accordance with their
[01:34:33] preferences a program of character guidance will help to continue in the service the whole
[01:34:37] some influence of home and community life awards and letters of commendation standards soldiers
[01:34:47] like to be in a sharp unit they appreciate achievement of high standards in discipline dress house
[01:34:53] keeping police maintenance training and athletics but lifting morale that comes from impressive
[01:34:58] and well executed military ceremonies is an important factor that can remind you like
[01:35:05] group heaties you know and the team and everyone like hates group heaties like crumbles like
[01:35:11] our group group heaties and then you get together and you do some awesome work out together and after
[01:35:14] we're like that's awesome that was great you know we just got some little help from external
[01:35:20] sources that was we'll move on to this in a second we just got a little some little help from
[01:35:25] external sources that it was Ali Frazier when that fight happened when that fight I was talking
[01:35:30] about about earlier happened and it was Frazier his Frazier's corner was basically saying
[01:35:38] you're done and Ali's was overtelling his corner caught him off I'm done and Frazier's corner said
[01:35:45] you can't you you're done and that was it Ali they all these corners you know is no you can't
[01:35:52] caught I mean you're fighting again you're fighting more and he decided to stick you know that was it
[01:35:57] you want for an ex he held on for an extra three seconds and got the victory after our 15 round
[01:36:05] war isn't the or a 14 round war going into the 15 round but I like that like what I know
[01:36:12] look I know I'm not the most talented and gifted person in any way shape or form but I know that
[01:36:18] I if someone's having if I'm having a hard time I know someone else is too and I know that I will answer
[01:36:24] the bell and I know that's gonna that's gonna be a problem it's gonna be a problem for somebody
[01:36:29] you know that that's I think for a lot of us it's kind of human nature to focus on yourself you know and
[01:36:35] think oh if you're having a struggle and it's you know it's you something you talk about whether it's
[01:36:39] you know this one is for you to waking up you know at the alarm early in the morning and how it's like
[01:36:45] you're a human being it's hard for you it's hard for anyone to do that but it's we kind of like to
[01:36:49] think oh it's harder for me and without the recognition of like man this is it's hard for
[01:36:54] everybody and if I can push a little bit harder it's gonna give me the advantage I figured that out
[01:36:59] in hell week for me I wasn't the fastest runner I wasn't a fastest swimmer but like by like day two of
[01:37:06] hell week everyone is crushed I was like dude I'm good to go like all of a sudden I can I can
[01:37:12] hang with guys that were way faster runners than me you know they were they were hurt more and and
[01:37:16] and it's like even the score so I think that's that gives you a pretty huge advantage if you can
[01:37:22] keep grinding yeah the tough types you that with that the normal face philosophy for so much
[01:37:29] because it jumped like and I'm obviously thinking about like a jujitsu situation or whatever where
[01:37:33] you're competing against someone directly where if they're guessing or whatever they're in a state
[01:37:39] of extreme adversity we'll say and they interpret because just like how you say in life how you're like hey
[01:37:44] we're so focused on ourselves I'm focused on how tired I am I don't know how tired this guy is all
[01:37:49] I have really is his external what he's doing or looking like but if the other guy's just like cruising
[01:37:54] in his face like he's really comfortable you're like man I can't compete with this at all so now you
[01:37:59] want to give up even more you can never like the joke about normal face is no joke man it really isn't
[01:38:07] it really truly isn't and you talk about you talk about you know like when how many times have you
[01:38:13] seen me like we're doing jujitsu or even not you training with me but me training with anybody me
[01:38:19] training with Dean Lish you know training with somebody that's better than me that's given me a run
[01:38:23] have you ever seen like a look on my face of just like despair no so and I told this story plot
[01:38:30] probably more than once before already on here but there was a time where you were rolling with Dean
[01:38:36] and you know with all the respect he was he was kicking your ass pretty bad and I was like dang
[01:38:42] I was like he's really in jokbo over and you guys were going hard that's the thing and that's the
[01:38:46] part that really like stuck with me I'm like man I would be disgusting right now like hard green
[01:38:50] I used scrambled scrambled again you scrambled again you scrambled again and then you kind of
[01:38:54] raster it but you guys weren't even doing that I was like man and you're getting your ass kicked
[01:38:58] some like jokbo's in a world or hurt right now then he had you in mount double snowing you're
[01:39:02] you're gonna like I would be I was feeling literally like physically claustrophobic because of how
[01:39:07] tired I was like empathetically getting from watching you guys and like how your arms were
[01:39:12] whatever else like man I don't know how he he can even take that or whatever and then you ended
[01:39:17] up sort of getting out on the round ended and I was looking at your face and you're just like
[01:39:21] kind of like that's what you do every day kind of think that's like I don't know that's what I
[01:39:26] knew is like oh okay this could's a little bit different than the normal person you know
[01:39:30] you do that even when probably the lowest point that I've seen you when Seth
[01:39:37] still and I came to visit you and the hospital after your next surgery and we went bought you a
[01:39:42] big like Danny slam burger you know like double cheese burger like we're gonna go let's go see
[01:39:47] jokbo you just had a surgery and we roll up there and you were just and you were like normal I
[01:39:53] knew you were hurt back as you did like like just set it down over there like you were still
[01:39:58] like normal face and I don't know what you looked like before we walked in there but you
[01:40:02] definitely turned on normal face when you know and I knew you had to be in mass of pain you just
[01:40:07] coming out of neck surgery that you know had all these these nerve issues and they had you on a
[01:40:12] bunch of you know just tell but you were even still were normal face well it's freaking get an
[01:40:16] ex surgery cousin Dean Lister that's what I mean but it's a real thing and and also I mean look
[01:40:22] life you've come to me with many times with all kinds of you know bad bad news you know whether it's
[01:40:30] just hey you know whether even it's just something stupid like I'm thinking of some dump stuff like
[01:40:33] a you lost some gear right some let's say some critical gear which you did or your
[01:40:39] platoon did which means you did like like you know you come to me and you go hey hey boss
[01:40:46] we lost this that and the other thing and I go okay well looks like we're gonna have to fill
[01:40:50] it to paperwork right like it's a real thing and if I can't control my emotions because you lost
[01:40:57] a piece of gear your platoon lost a piece of gear like wow am I gonna react in the future
[01:41:02] and by the way when you're saying I lost a piece of gear like we're talking about like I'm
[01:41:07] coming and telling you we lost a $15,000 pair of like PBS 15 like night vision which can be used
[01:41:13] by the enemy yeah which is a big deal or we lost a a kick 13 which is you know
[01:41:21] cryptologic device that you know that we use for radios it's a cryptological device that
[01:41:28] when you lose means the entire country of America has to update their cryptological modes
[01:41:35] which is a giant deal and so for Jocco to just give you the normal face on that it's actually
[01:41:41] the worst it's like your dad telling you he's he's uh he's not angry he's just disappointed
[01:41:46] I mean it's actually the worst because if you were like dude are you kidding me you know like
[01:41:50] I would look at it it would be desirable which I was like Roger and just looks back at you like it's
[01:41:58] like angry doesn't it give you like a no I maybe it's on the other side of like your brain
[01:42:03] or something but doesn't it give you like a big sense of comfort like okay at least this is manageable
[01:42:09] like it's a big deal but at least it's manageable because like if you're already kind of freaking out
[01:42:13] for whatever reason and you bring it to him who's like part of the reason you're kind of apprehensive
[01:42:20] about the whole thing to say the least and he doesn't freak out so it's like it feels like in your
[01:42:26] mind you're like okay maybe this this whole chaotic situation that just emerged is kind of manageable
[01:42:34] well I mean look to me there's there's there's definitely like it's it's it's more difficult
[01:42:41] to handle a boss is like doesn't freak out about it right when you're like because you don't
[01:42:45] want to let that boss down yeah you want to let that boss down you're like hey man is like Roger
[01:42:49] you know and it's it's it's it's it's harder it's more and but I guess to your point
[01:42:56] ago it's you're gonna I'm gonna actually fix that problem I want to make sure it doesn't
[01:43:00] happen again whether if you do if you flip that about it and you know yelled and screamed to me
[01:43:05] then that's my punishment whereas the punishment for me is knowing like it's constructive
[01:43:10] because I know like I kind of get the specs we can't let this happen again this is a massive issue
[01:43:15] hey okay I know we get a send out a message until the entire US military you know department
[01:43:21] of defense send out a jackass message yeah so you know what I'm gonna start riding the message right
[01:43:26] now let me do it let's get yeah you know that's that's that's probably not the best example I
[01:43:33] could have picked because as I'm thinking about it what you're saying is accurate like it's it's
[01:43:38] more tormenting for me just to be like all right cool Roger you know as opposed to being like I
[01:43:44] can't believe you did that because now you can be like god jack was such a jerk and it's almost
[01:43:48] like you know we can have a little spatio as opposed to me just late just saddling you with
[01:43:57] unbearable guilt for letting me down but it's it's the reality is it's gets the problem fixed it
[01:44:04] gives the problem fixed I mean with it's not unbearable guilt it's like okay we can't let that happen
[01:44:10] again this is a huge deal and we gotta get we gotta I'm gonna make sure this doesn't happen again
[01:44:15] which is gonna be better for me gonna be better for you gonna be better for our team gonna be better for
[01:44:19] everybody rather than like oh okay I got yelled at you know and and that's the end of it you know
[01:44:25] yeah and even like when they flip out on you or something you're like yeah I messed up but like
[01:44:31] he didn't have to flip out on me like that you know so it kind of like on that justify is what it kind of
[01:44:36] let's give you it gives you it gives you a cause right yeah lift lift freaking just lost his mind
[01:44:43] with me on that you know what I mean you go back to the platoon you go do jack would just totally
[01:44:47] freak out he's freaking out about this that guy turns him out in a moha all the time right
[01:44:52] all of a sudden it's me against you and then turns into me against your platoon so it's just all bad
[01:44:57] one thing I will say about normal face and I could say this because anybody that knows me knows
[01:45:02] that I'm probably the worst one of them yeah the worst normal face guy ever like it is a real
[01:45:08] struggle for me to like maintain normal face it's it's funny because I I mean you yes it is not a
[01:45:17] strength of yours but you are better now because man back in the day it was just like I would be
[01:45:23] looking you're going oh this is my face getting red just clenching your teeth I'd be like oh
[01:45:30] jack ladies get spooked up this ought to be good I'd be thinking like please please don't say
[01:45:35] anything until the boss leaves or whatever I'll hand it do you know that's the safety thing
[01:45:41] and yeah that would be good but what I was gonna say is this is a great example of this when
[01:45:45] it goes freedom right and your kids well we know I mean I've known them since they all are
[01:45:49] super little and watching growing up and you have helped them you know train them and that like
[01:45:55] like help they're you're practicing that and it's something that you got to practice it something you have to
[01:46:00] you can get better with reps even if you're not naturally good at it like me you can definitely get better
[01:46:05] with with reps and and so I have improved I don't know when it goes still but I think you got to be
[01:46:11] thinking about it all the time and that's you know we talked about it on the podcast years ago
[01:46:15] when I was here like you're decaying us at home I got young kids at home that's a great example
[01:46:20] to like accept that as like a okay I'm not gonna spin up this is a good chance to practice normal
[01:46:25] face right now when I'm upset I'm frustrated we're not getting out the door for the road trip
[01:46:30] but whatever it is that we all get I get spun up about all the time and it's if you accept that as
[01:46:35] like a training opportunity then you're when when you actually need to use normal face you will
[01:46:41] actually be much better doing it. You're you mentioned like training and the kids and stuff the
[01:46:46] whole reason it's called normal face is because it's an actual game that this guy plays played whatever
[01:46:53] with the kids with the it's like a one at the wrapping paper the wrapping paper left over from the
[01:46:59] wrapping paper the the tube I've witnessed the normal face you know I did it to one we had a guy
[01:47:07] that showed up in Ramadha a new guy who's a great dude when he showed up and he's a happy guy
[01:47:13] and he had and he would smile all the time right we're talking private pile you know and so I
[01:47:18] look at him go hey you need you can't be walking around like smile like that you're a freaking
[01:47:23] team guy you need to represent we we are tasked a bruiser not task unit freaking smiley so
[01:47:32] I played normal face with that guy you know what I'm talking about okay yeah and it was so
[01:47:36] funny because I mean I was laughing so hard because he could not even come close to not smiling
[01:47:42] and the more I did it and the harder I hit him the harder I was laughing he was laughing it was pretty
[01:47:47] funny one normal face game I'm thinking about was was your oldest daughter when she was probably
[01:47:54] probably seven maybe and we were at your house and on the pull-up bar on the garage do you remember
[01:48:00] that no and you're like get up there show life how many pools you can do now she gets up she
[01:48:05] cranks out to pull ups like awesome and then you know maybe she wasn't even seven because she was
[01:48:10] way off the ground you know you like lifted her up there to get there on the full size pull
[01:48:14] up our freaking so she's like four feet off the ground and you're like and you're like I will
[01:48:20] not catch you as she's hanging on the bar like I will not catch you she's like dad you're like
[01:48:26] I mean well you're your hands are like right there but she can't see you and I was just like
[01:48:32] and you know what she actually was like you you could see up initially she was like dad and then
[01:48:36] then she was like she just went like normal face and then she dropped off your cotter it was like
[01:48:42] yeah well you also have to train your kids to deal with just unknown terror
[01:48:51] fallie breaking broken bones sorry kids that's the way she turned that out right
[01:49:01] okay great she's outstanding yeah I you know it's a learning process you know you learn
[01:49:08] about you know you learn about control in your emotions life I've learned a lot about parenting
[01:49:12] I feel like with the kids practicing or taking opportunities to practice normal face 100% of the
[01:49:20] time is a good method it's a good method and it is a great thing like no joke it is a great thing
[01:49:27] for a leader to be able to control your emotions because your emotions we already talked about this
[01:49:34] if I'm panicking if lay for a porch to me some news and I panic he's gonna panic every
[01:49:39] of the panic it's gonna be mayhem if he sees me go alright got it you know it's like okay
[01:49:45] you know I've had like at the master you know the masters uh there's there's timelines and
[01:49:51] there's you've got to be at a certain place at a certain time you know and I've had Jamie come up to me you
[01:49:55] know the so-and so we don't have any that stuff yet like okay and you can see that she's kind of
[01:50:02] panicked about it you know we don't have the labels for the whatever to pass out stuff and I
[01:50:06] go okay we'll pass them out tomorrow and she's like okay you know just like it's all good but that
[01:50:12] that's an awesome thing man and that's powerful I mean you and I were just talking about this
[01:50:15] today right with some some uh with Ashlong front stuff and and uh and our strategic growth and
[01:50:21] and things that I was really spinning up about and and really stressing on you're like it's not
[01:50:25] that big of a deal you know and that is that's something that is uh that perspective you know
[01:50:31] what someone's immersed it or it's someone is immersed in the details of things and they're like
[01:50:37] it's the way it's bearing down on them or like man this is gonna happen it's really easy to get
[01:50:40] stressed out about that so it's it's a powerful thing man yeah that also you know falls into
[01:50:47] some implied intent right of me and leaving you with the impression that something needs to be
[01:50:55] perfect because well you know me like hey I like things to be squared away and then all of a
[01:50:59] sudden you got something that's not squared away and you start trying to fix this problem and
[01:51:03] it's you're investing more than it's worth into the problem and it's because I am giving you the wrong
[01:51:09] implied intent that hey you know what if it's that much investment I don't want you to make
[01:51:14] that much investment of time and it's something that's really not gonna have a massive impact strategically
[01:51:19] so like I gotta do a better job of going oh you know let me know if something's a struggle
[01:51:26] where have I done this before like hey if it's gonna cost this would be really cool to have
[01:51:33] it'd be really cool if we executed this but if we can don't worry about it you know don't invest
[01:51:41] more than x amount of hours hey go look at it for two hours if we can't do it you know we won't do it
[01:51:46] no factor it'd be cool if we can but let's not let's not lose sleep over it whereas you know it's like
[01:51:53] once again going back to get his burg what I need to remember is if if generally tell Stonewall
[01:52:01] Jackson to do something he's gonna freaking do it and he doesn't care what price he has to pay to
[01:52:06] accomplish that mission well if I if I mentioned to you like hey this would be cool to have
[01:52:10] you're like cool and now the sudden you're paying the ultimate price to finish it makes
[01:52:14] something happen and you look up you know three weeks later and you've spent money in time
[01:52:19] and it's like you know like I got it done or no or maybe we can't execute what your vision was it's like
[01:52:26] oh okay cool no worry about it so that's not a good normal face you know it's a little bit too much
[01:52:32] so yeah it happens the final thing I'll say about normal face is I love that my kids now have been
[01:52:40] influenced I'll be like we call it jocconormal face so when you when you say you know we pretty much
[01:52:45] brand everything is jockel around here so we're good with that I say execute jockel normal face and they're
[01:52:49] like these smiling for a picture that I boom it's on cue it's awesome I won't you're old not so much
[01:52:56] yet but my four year old six year old they get so that's legit that's legit all right back to the book
[01:53:05] chart number four evidence of we're on this whole thing talking about morale and this is evidence
[01:53:10] of morale and discussing the subject of morale with visitors I often ask and am asked what do you
[01:53:15] look for in a unit or in order to gauge the morale since morale is influenced by so many factors
[01:53:22] there are naturally many indications of the state of morale the things I know quickly and sizing
[01:53:28] up a unit include I'm gonna burn through some of these saluting dress good house keeping pride
[01:53:35] pride I'll go into that one a little bit are the men eager to show their accomplishments do they
[01:53:40] point to their units history with pride do they have something good to sell and try and sell it
[01:53:48] participating in charities athletic program and support teams and athletic program enthusiastically
[01:53:53] supporters always a favorable indication of morale church attendance soldiers deposits and other
[01:54:00] savings a man who saves his money each month is banking on his future and his wellage it is usually
[01:54:07] a well adjusted and confident soldier when there are many such soldiers in a unit there is a depth
[01:54:12] of stability in the organization but commanders should not attempt to coerce the men to participate in this
[01:54:18] program you know just for for for all leaders really this is probably one of the things when I look
[01:54:25] back at my military career that I did a pretty horrible job of and that was that I never said all
[01:54:34] guys here's what you should do with your money here's some here's some moves to make you know
[01:54:40] here's some things that you should do here some things that you shouldn't do so just if you're a
[01:54:43] leader especially if you're a military leader look when you're a militant a lot of kids that
[01:54:48] joined the military myself included hey when I got to the teams and I was an E4 in the teams I was
[01:54:54] the richest person in the world and you know I got that paycheck every two weeks and I was ready to rock
[01:55:02] and roll make it right it was great and you know I really wish somebody along the way would have said
[01:55:09] hey man that's cool you know you're gonna make whatever $5,000 this month you know what I know you
[01:55:16] like to get after it and go have a good time and you should and you should do that with $4,000 not
[01:55:22] with $4,999 so if you're in a position where you can help people plan their economic future please do that
[01:55:32] you know what it's funny that you're actually saying that because you of all the people I worked with
[01:55:38] in 13 years in the Navy like you're the only one that did that and maybe not on like a
[01:55:46] you didn't like have a presentation to the entire task unit you know maybe you could have done
[01:55:50] something absolutely should have but you had a lot of direct interaction with a whole lot of people
[01:55:56] and helped direct them you know our influence or our encourage of the do something you know
[01:56:01] go in the right way yeah I think to your point I think guys that were close to me
[01:56:06] I would be like hey bro what you need to do is this and so that's cool but you know I should have
[01:56:11] been doing it for everybody and I didn't and the reason is I didn't really care about that stuff
[01:56:17] honestly I didn't really think about it I didn't really think about that I just thought about
[01:56:21] hey we we just want to be good frogmen and a good task unit and good platoon you know like that's it
[01:56:25] so we're here for so I should have been thinking a little bit deeper about that but if you're in that position
[01:56:33] do it enlistment and re-enlistment records a wall when such offenses are reasonably easy to commit
[01:56:42] and the number of offenses is low it is indicative of high morale sizes sit call court
[01:56:48] martial rates incidents and accidents complaints about the inspector general this is another
[01:56:55] classic thing right so complaints to the inspector general sorry this is in complaints to the
[01:57:01] inspector general later in the book lady talks about how you should be open and ready to being
[01:57:07] inspected when if you everyone's hates inspections and doesn't want the commander to come down
[01:57:13] and he says you should be waiting for that and it's very similar to our attitude and Ramadi which
[01:57:20] which I absolutely stole from the exo of the first the 506 or sorry yeah the exo the first the five
[01:57:28] well the ops officer from the first the 506 who as soon as we got there there's an investigation
[01:57:33] happening and he and I was like yeah what you can investigate before he goes oh this that and the other thing
[01:57:37] and or this thing and I said oh this is that how's that gonna work out he goes I love it when we get
[01:57:44] inspected because I want them to come in inspect and see what we're doing and see what it's like down here
[01:57:50] and see what it's like to live down here and let them understand what's going on in the front lines
[01:57:54] and I absolutely adopted that policy and what's cool is what he says in this book is you know
[01:58:04] why are you afraid of being inspected you shouldn't have nothing to hide so if you're if you're
[01:58:09] afraid of being inspected that's a problem and let's fix the thing so that you could be
[01:58:15] open to being inspected you know we we talked about that in extro membership right leading up
[01:58:19] the chenic command and how we invited our commander to come down and see what we're doing and
[01:58:24] and invite our operations officer and the there staff to be there but that's it's a complete opposite
[01:58:29] though of what everybody else oh yeah everybody else's mindset was like get the boss man away
[01:58:34] we don't want them around here we want to be able to and what they wanted to be able to get away with
[01:58:40] was like really minuscule stuff like uniforms around the camp like attendance at meetings a little
[01:58:46] things that don't really matter and and yet what we gained by having them come out and visit us was
[01:58:53] a deep understanding of our mission how we were mitigating risk what resources we needed
[01:58:58] I mean it's it's it's a no brainer and yet nobody does that because they don't want the
[01:59:02] the scooby of the big boss man the wrong attitude next section outside influence on morale
[01:59:10] the factors and indications of morale covered so far concern things generally within the control
[01:59:16] of the commander but there are influences on the morale of the soldiers especially those on duty
[01:59:21] in a far off land which stem from apt attitudes of officials the press radio commentators
[01:59:27] and public at home the soldier should feel that he is needed and that his sacrifices are the
[01:59:34] of immediate and long range benefit to his country his home his family and himself he should
[01:59:40] feel that his unit is in is as important to him as his family that he is just as important to the
[01:59:46] unit he will feel that importance as long as the people at home feel that he is sensitive to
[01:59:52] public opinion at home and because of good radio newspaper and male facilities is constantly
[02:00:00] aware of attitudes at the home toward the importance of his job that's an interesting perspective
[02:00:06] compared to totally all enough if we were reading newspapers and watching TV you know the
[02:00:12] particular 2006 the rack war it was just constant negative coverage quagmire we can't win
[02:00:18] you know this is terrible we just had a tune that stuff out yeah and it's it's even more pronounced
[02:00:26] now with social media do we have social media was there social media for us in in remodels like
[02:00:33] my space and actually I do remember markly used to always come back and get on Facebook
[02:00:37] and it existed yeah Facebook existed but it was not I think it like my space was still like the
[02:00:44] dominant uh 2006 echo where were we at social media wise 2006?
[02:00:49] his correct yes just kicking it with my space between my space and my space was like a music
[02:00:55] something yeah you could put me so so so my space was legit social media back that yes
[02:01:01] and before that yeah 2007 2006 what you did what you did Facebook come to prominence
[02:01:08] I don't know the exact year but that's when you know when it was it was rolling
[02:01:14] it was for sure but my space was still going on as well but there was a lot less people on all
[02:01:19] these things you know yeah I mean now it's now it's the now it it has replaced me pre-eyefall
[02:01:25] so you could access it with your phone you know access it through the you know your computer
[02:01:30] yeah that was like barely like right when pictures to the internet started going
[02:01:38] like not all phone dead cameras so bottom line we got to pay attention the influence on
[02:01:44] morale from outside our organization pay attention to it this next section is called junior officers
[02:01:53] conferences and and it says there are always many newly commissioned officers find officers in the
[02:01:59] army they have come from many sources some of these young officers have demonstrated
[02:02:03] outstanding ability and combat others have not had this experience few of them have had
[02:02:07] the time or opportunity become fully indoctrinated with the duties and responsibilities required
[02:02:11] of an officer the standards and responsibilities of an officer are in many respects more
[02:02:17] exacting and more difficult to discharge in peace time than in combat consequently officers
[02:02:23] conferences should be conducted for all junior officers to review the duties and response
[02:02:27] response so what do you say is that look you should meet with your your
[02:02:32] subordinate leadership and educate them and teach them and I often ask this question to clients
[02:02:43] I say as anyone here had a person that invested in them personally and you know most of the time
[02:02:51] especially when I'm talking to leaders most of the time people will raise their hand and say you
[02:02:58] know oh yeah you know I've had this person that took me under the wing or and I and I
[02:03:03] would then I say well how does that how did that make you feel and obviously everyone says oh yeah
[02:03:08] that makes you feel great make you feel like you can do well and it's person that's encouraging you
[02:03:13] and then I say how many people are you doing that for right now and like there's less hands right
[02:03:18] and so we take this investment of the people that raised you like the people that raised me and the
[02:03:23] teams right what if I take that investment I just hold on to it don't give it anybody else that's horrible
[02:03:27] and it's not continuing to grow the capabilities of the community there's there's there's something
[02:03:34] deeper there that I when he he said rolls and responsibility so you were viewing rolls and
[02:03:40] responsibilities with them and I think that's something that you know the jocco brief that you would
[02:03:44] give in like the junior officer training course when I was running training for two years I ran
[02:03:49] training for all seal officers are graduating from our our basic training pipeline and you came
[02:03:53] in we'd have you come in and give the jocco brief and it was the same thing that you briefed to
[02:03:58] the task units and impultines going through the work up and I think one of the most important parts
[02:04:03] of that was the rules and responsibilities so it's great to mentor I mean you write people
[02:04:07] don't invest in their people I agree with that 100% but I think a lot of people don't know how to
[02:04:12] mentor people and what he's saying there I think which is if you've got to make their roles
[02:04:17] and responsibilities clear and you broke down I mean it was it was it was shooter you know your job
[02:04:23] is to make things happen you know get default of the grass you have you haven't listed out
[02:04:28] all the way fire team leader you know take your four guys lead your fire team support your squad leader
[02:04:33] you had the squad leader then you had the butoon commanders you had the assault chief you had the
[02:04:37] you know assault force commander the ground force commander etc and that was a really powerful
[02:04:43] document so much so that I've had several several very successful seals including good friends
[02:04:51] of years who have reached out to me and said hey can we get a copy of that yeah yeah yeah yeah
[02:04:56] because it really it without breaking that down enables you to execute with confidence if you
[02:05:01] know what your roles or responsibilities are then you can actually step up and execute with confidence
[02:05:05] and I think that's a really people don't define that though you define it away it was easy to
[02:05:11] understand and enable people to execute and I think that's a great that's a key thing to mentor people
[02:05:17] on one of the key parts of that when I would get done talking about what the roles and responsibilities
[02:05:22] of everyone was I would say okay now that you know your roles and responsibility you also have to
[02:05:27] understand the person below you and the person above you are the chain of command you have to
[02:05:30] understand what their roles and responsibilities are and if you have to you have to either ascend
[02:05:36] or descend into the situation where you can solve a problem do their job as soon as you get a
[02:05:40] problem solved you can't get stuck there you have to elevate yourself up to the next position
[02:05:45] the last thing that I would start saying to guys once they were done with jazzy now I'm talking
[02:05:51] up to tunes is I would say listen and I would usually say this just to like the headshed I would say
[02:05:58] listen here's the roles and responsibilities I don't actually care who does these things but you
[02:06:05] better figure it out because sometimes you might have a platoon chief that hadn't been in the
[02:06:13] teams for a few years and he had some platoon commander that had just gotten back off deployment
[02:06:18] or you'd have whatever the case may be maybe the LPO just got done teaching assaults out at
[02:06:24] trade at and now he's in the platoon or just got back from land war for so he's going to really
[02:06:29] know how to do that job so I'd say listen it doesn't really matter which one you have now I'll tell
[02:06:35] you basically and this is what I always say basically in listed guys you're the tactical experts
[02:06:41] you handle the problem that you got at hand officers you need to figure out what the next move is
[02:06:47] going to be and that was the general thing but then I'd say listen if this officer like doesn't have
[02:06:55] any experience whatsoever and maybe the LPO is kind of badass and the chief is I'd say listen listen
[02:07:01] officer you need to look to your chief and he needs to elevate a little bit and figure out what's
[02:07:06] going to do next so and that well the reason that happened was because as I put more and more
[02:07:13] platoons through training I saw that some platoons they just didn't they would they had a mismatch
[02:07:18] they had some prior and listed officer that was freaking just a badass new everything or they had
[02:07:24] a a chief that was you know been out of the loop for a while and so okay but the LPO like I said
[02:07:30] so eventually I would say listen I don't really care how you guys break these up but you have to
[02:07:36] know who's responsible for what and one man cannot do all these jobs it's it's not possible for one
[02:07:43] man to do all these jobs I seen some badass seals with tons of experience come through here and
[02:07:48] they might be able to pull it off for on offer two ops and then something's going to happen and all
[02:07:53] of a sudden it's going to be overwhelmed and other people have to be able to back them up not
[02:07:56] to mention if somebody's doing all these jobs I'm going to kill him and you better figure it out
[02:08:01] I remember that don't get stuck there in your house so it's stuck there
[02:08:05] there so I okay so the reason I wanted to cover this section is because it says this so we're talking
[02:08:13] about these junior officer conferences these conferences should be conducted by commanders themselves
[02:08:19] and on an informal basis lieutenant and separate companies and attachments may be invited to
[02:08:24] join groups from units commanded by a field great officer groups should not be too large
[02:08:29] preaching should be avoided I read this whole section just so I could say that preaching should be
[02:08:34] avoided these conferences can well can well be the means of improving the unit team
[02:08:40] under the coaching of its captain the unit commander these conferences may consist of one hour
[02:08:45] meetings he goes he goes into some detail about how to do it but the fact that he's saying look
[02:08:50] you're not bringing people in there to preach on how to do things you're bringing in their
[02:08:55] educate to have discussions and he's got the whole topic of discussions here military courtesy
[02:09:01] personal standards military discipline promotions unit history a speed of core accomplishments missions
[02:09:09] troop information morale self education of officers professional publications
[02:09:14] responsibility for fun he's got everything security classification use a misuse of military vehicles
[02:09:20] so basically it's like tell the guys what's going on that's what he's saying you have to tell
[02:09:27] people what's going on and then he's got this commander's checklist for success and this
[02:09:34] we've already been going for a while so this will probably be the last thing we cover
[02:09:40] every commander at every echelon should maintain a continuing checklist to be left for or given
[02:09:46] to his successor to command this checklist should contain items of value that will assist the new commander
[02:09:54] in becoming familiar with his command more rapidly than if he had had to uncover the same
[02:10:00] items over a period of time such items must consist of one significant strengths and weaknesses
[02:10:05] of key officers and non-commission officers in the command boom isn't it weird that we might be in
[02:10:13] charge of people and know that we would have to turn this over and not keep track of like who's
[02:10:19] what strengthen weaknesses are next important policy matters announced by senior commanders and
[02:10:25] not contained in SOP or directives so you're tracking this stuff a good turnover is such an
[02:10:31] important thing to to do and what I think is important about a turnover it's great to have it
[02:10:38] to turn over to the next unit but what it does is it forces you to actually think through
[02:10:44] how you are operating and when you force yourself to think through how you're operating you
[02:10:50] define it you refine it you codify it and now it becomes stronger just like when you
[02:10:59] just like when you write down these principles just like when you formulate a standard operating
[02:11:04] procedure and you just like when you teach a jiu-jitsu move or you write out how you do any time that
[02:11:08] you study what you're doing you will get better at it and that's what this commanders check list
[02:11:13] for successors I said successors it's for successors for someone that's going to take your place
[02:11:20] that you know what part of that too I think is yeah that's self analysis you're talking about
[02:11:24] is like hey what do we screw up what do we learn from it I remember given a turnover one time
[02:11:30] on a follow on deployment and and when the new unit came in the new seal seal unit taken over for
[02:11:36] for us and one of the one of the senior leaders was like this is a great turnover you guys are
[02:11:40] given here I really this is one of the best tours I've ever seen I'm like why did you say that
[02:11:46] I did kind of caught me off guard I was like what what do you say that he's like because you're telling
[02:11:50] us all the stuff that you screwed up and it was it's really you know when you have a unit turning
[02:11:55] over thing like people coming in like get these idiots out of here we're going to take take over
[02:12:00] even though we've been there for six months learning and I was like man how are you going to
[02:12:05] learn from us to continue the mission to be more effective if we don't tell you what we screwed up
[02:12:09] but clearly he wasn't used to that and most people weren't doing that and I think that
[02:12:14] taking deeply about it and if you care about the mission then you want you want the people it
[02:12:19] is successful I mean we tried to set up the next seal team for sure you know Steve Ward and his
[02:12:23] guys sir yeah yeah speaking of Steve Ward you can be coming on the podcast sometime real soon
[02:12:33] names and personalities of individuals outside the command with whom it is necessary to associate
[02:12:37] new business areas of training weaknesses within the command so reporting the weaknesses like you
[02:12:42] just talked about disciplinary matters security matters critical equipment shortages so that's
[02:12:47] that's that section and here's the last thing we'll cover vigilance and by the way we're we are on
[02:12:57] page 13 right now so yeah we are on page 13 of this book there's 117 pages
[02:13:06] when I'm page 13 a unit operational readiness status must be ready for immediate employment at
[02:13:14] all times regardless of how well a unit has been trained the commander cannot allow it to become
[02:13:22] wax and let down its guard World War II and the Korean conflict were started by surprise attacks
[02:13:28] on Sunday mornings these surprises remind us that we must be ready for anything seven days a week
[02:13:36] 24 hours a day we cannot relax our vigilance in any way that would contribute to disaster
[02:13:47] so there you go like I said that is the first 13 pages I'm only two thirds of the way through
[02:14:01] my second just get our help sniper just get it up look I'll get to the rest of this I'm sure
[02:14:08] I'll cover this thing but it's just incredible to see how these principles remain the same
[02:14:15] over time and it's so intriguing to uncover the roots of hack worth and about face and thereby
[02:14:25] the roots of me and of you and of extreme ownership and the Academy of Leadership and Leadership
[02:14:31] Strategy and Tactics there's a thread you can trace through all these books you got to know your
[02:14:38] roots and the better the better you understand yes history but the better you understand the origin of
[02:14:46] ideas and principles then the better you understand those ideas and principles themselves
[02:14:56] and the better leader and person you will become crazy
[02:15:03] what do you think life I think that's outstanding I think that's incredibly eye-opening and
[02:15:12] it's because I've read about face and detail and you know I've just flipped it through my copy
[02:15:19] this week as I was kind of organized myself in my home office and looking at just the you know
[02:15:25] the tab and underlying pages and I actually had to I put packing tape along the binder because
[02:15:31] it's been so just it's been so from over use it's just been torn up and I had to reinforce it
[02:15:39] it's awesome to to understand where Colonel Hackworth got some of these ideas and and look I'm sure
[02:15:47] you know I'm sure also you know that these were learned from from mentors you know and from generations
[02:15:54] as well but incredible stuff definitely making us better yeah I'll tell you
[02:16:03] speaking of getting better you you have any maybe I don't know suggestions on how we can get
[02:16:10] you now that you mention it actually I think that's the interesting you're that book
[02:16:16] that you finally located it was like a little treasure hunt you know the kind guys who like
[02:16:21] they look for treasure that might not even exist you know that can go that that was you
[02:16:26] she's like oh it doesn't exist seems saying you only got hints of it through Hackworth
[02:16:31] I have I have access to all kinds of like I pay you know these various websites that offer
[02:16:38] all these ancient PDFs I mean I got the most the the dumbest subscriptions and I've
[02:16:43] spent scouring these things for years you know nothing not it and how crazy is it
[02:16:49] that the month that this version of about face comes out I freaking find this thing there's
[02:16:55] one copy of what on Amazon and I have it it was meant to be I have it it's legit juggle gutties treasure
[02:17:04] I have the ARC which is the advanced readers copy so that's so an advanced readers kind no I
[02:17:11] don't have it of that book but an advanced readers copy when a when a book is gonna come out
[02:17:15] they release they'll print like they'll print how many how many ARCs do you think they print in current days
[02:17:25] I have no idea 100 well 2000 no no advanced reader copies what are they call the galley's
[02:17:32] I'm sorry yeah I'm gonna you think they print like for instance for a whole first stream
[02:17:37] ownership I think I got six and you got six yeah like that and then they printed this home to send to whoever
[02:17:43] but we're talking absolutely doesn't yeah absolutely less than 50 right less than 50
[02:17:50] so we're at the master in a guy named Tobin came up and he goes I have something for you and he
[02:17:56] gives me like a brown paper bag and this is just weird because it's hard even understand this
[02:18:01] it's if you don't understand what an ARC is and I understand how rare they are that you know look you
[02:18:07] get like I love first edition like I love first edition about face but there's got to be a 100
[02:18:12] thousand of those things floating around right you know you might like the first edition of
[02:18:17] extreme ownership you know we always joke about it but there's hundreds of thousands of copies
[02:18:23] of the first edition of extreme ownership there's only probably less than 50 ARCs of extreme ownership
[02:18:33] and same with the rest of all of our books well so I'm at the master and this guy comes up to me
[02:18:39] and he goes yeah I wanted to give you something and I all awesome appreciate it and people
[02:18:43] give us a lot of cool stuff all the time you know and he hands me this paper bag and I open it up
[02:18:48] and there's a plastic but there's a book in plastic just a plastic bag I pull it out and I look at it
[02:18:52] and it's an version of about face that I've never seen before and it's thinner than normal and I go
[02:18:59] what is this and I pull it out of the plastic and sure enough it's an unedited advanced
[02:19:06] to readers copy of about face signed by David Aquarth this thing is priceless to me right so
[02:19:20] he's out there I actually owe him copies of about face of this new version but guess what I'll
[02:19:26] some sending him a RCs of extreme ownership because they gave us about six each I have all of mine
[02:19:38] I have mine as well you want to know why why do you have yours why did you keep yours
[02:19:45] I think I some of my intended to send to people and they didn't get sent and some of my just
[02:19:49] thought be kind of cool to get hang on to you know I only kept I first of all I didn't know that it was a
[02:19:54] big deal I didn't know that this is this whole thing you know we didn't know if the hell we are doing
[02:19:58] when it came to writing so we didn't know if the hell we were doing so they send us these things
[02:20:03] and I'm like yeah whatever well I didn't they're like you could send them to you know the
[02:20:07] influencers that you know yeah well I'm like and so what I'm thinking is there's misspellings in this
[02:20:14] there's some things that we edited out I said I don't want anyone to see this and I just put them right
[02:20:18] my I put them in you know in like a drawer somewhere and then I don't know a few years later
[02:20:26] I started as I actually as we started doing the podcast and I started getting more into getting
[02:20:34] various books and I always liked the first edition thing but then I realized at some point that
[02:20:39] there was something better than the first edition and that was the readers ARC I got I guess
[02:20:45] something better than the readers ARC and that is the the word document manuscript oh yeah
[02:20:53] which we got we've got the edit all the edits like just the crazy edits that we went through
[02:20:58] well that was crazy too because you were you were you knew yeah you were in New York when we wrote
[02:21:02] extreme ownership and we had to edit that thing and I remember spending four hours on the phone
[02:21:08] going through final edits would be like art pages page 64 hey you're said that's what you think and
[02:21:14] you'd be like oh yeah we knew you know we said we would just sit there and manually go through
[02:21:18] for hours on the phone these stupid edits you know and what's what's interesting isn't we
[02:21:25] were talking about this the other day there was one of the last edits that we did we kind of got
[02:21:29] out the freaking the clenched fist of editing and just started cutting stuff you know we started
[02:21:35] getting rid of stuff that was pretty that was pretty cool you know it'll be interesting to see
[02:21:41] you know I think particularly if you think about decades from now what that might be like I
[02:21:45] a friend of mine showed me you know obviously that stuff becomes quite valuable to collectors
[02:21:50] and people that know you know it's meaningful to people that it has the understand the value
[02:21:55] of what it is and how rare it is and a friend of mine showed me a copy of it was a biography of Stonewall Jackson
[02:22:03] and he was like he handed it to me it was kind of his old and kind of brittle I felt like
[02:22:07] it was going to fall apart open up and it's this G-Patten it was it was Patton's personal copy
[02:22:13] totally annotated like noted like all the notes in the margins you know something that general
[02:22:19] pattern went through and and note it was pretty pretty awesome that is awesome I have all the
[02:22:24] books that I've covered in the podcast with all the tabs and notes and red lines and highlights
[02:22:30] and everything and it's freaking cool to sit there and go back because I'll go back and look at
[02:22:35] a book that I you know I had to cover on the podcast and like I didn't even come close to getting
[02:22:40] like out everything out of this that I need to get out of this you know with the old breed especially
[02:22:46] the early podcast where we would not they weren't as long and and now I look at I go man
[02:22:52] I go we get to get right back into that thing right back into that thing you did you did
[02:22:58] speak to Patton you did boards I knew it as well which I gave you that copy you gave me that copy
[02:23:03] yeah it's signed by Lave Babin not by General Patton I'm not quite a valuable copy of
[02:23:12] Oras I knew it and it is signed by Lave Babin and I am damn bravo that disappointed yeah
[02:23:21] you posted the copy that I originally gave you about face the other day and you know it had
[02:23:28] my my you because you made me sign it you were like hey bro you needed to sign this and I was kind
[02:23:33] like whatever you thought it was I was like bro you give me my book you needed to sign the book
[02:23:39] and I've put a date in it you know I'd never give the present to anyone and so or gifts of any kind
[02:23:44] and I've never given anything to anybody really have I ever given you anything I go books oh yeah
[02:23:51] so yeah I've given you some books I just gave you the I just gave you about face yeah all right
[02:23:56] so anyways but when you ask me I was kind of I don't come from the background of giving things
[02:24:03] in in the in the on the scale of gift giveers like tacos you know 10 is greatest one is the least
[02:24:11] um tacos like 02 Jamie covered move caucran sent like my sent my oldest daughter flowers for
[02:24:20] her birthday whatever a year ago or something like that from me and my daughter did not even
[02:24:27] remotely believe it for one second yeah she's like who did you get to send me flowers and I was like oh
[02:24:33] Jamie I can't lie can't lie to my daughter so there you go pretty cool so yeah I did sign your book
[02:24:41] and and then we just we just re we re enacted the signing of the book and I put the same thing
[02:24:47] so there you go all right echo Charles speaking of getting better yes you said oh then you you
[02:24:53] started asking us of course do you have any more questions no for the crew here no no that was more of my
[02:24:58] that was my takeaway that's how it's regarding this book the whole time like that's your little
[02:25:01] treasure that you found finally after your journey you know I wonder what's gonna happen now like
[02:25:07] once this comes out is is stack pole books gonna reassure it or is jockel publishing somebody's
[02:25:15] gonna dig their like grandfather's copy out and there's gonna be nine of one the internet all
[02:25:21] by seven hundred fifty books yeah all by him you know how much old hardcover copy of about
[02:25:27] faces like they were on they were on Amazon the other day now you can buy it they were a little
[02:25:31] two hundred bucks yeah two hundred bucks I have twenty copies all right there we go
[02:25:39] yeah okay all right getting better right we're on the path okay we're getting better even
[02:25:44] in for good by the way like you know what he call we're maintaining vigilance yes big time for sure
[02:25:51] but anyway on the on our road of improvement for improvement is what we're doing okay we're working
[02:25:59] out every day all right life not to put you too much on the on the spot but you work out every day
[02:26:04] I try to okay so that was my answer to which you know that that's a non-answer by the way
[02:26:09] because there's varying levels of try not to say that that's you know that yeah listen the goal
[02:26:16] is work out every day sometimes I achieve that on a you know on a weekly basis cool I knocked it
[02:26:22] out other times you know so life gets in the way but every every the days that I miss work out
[02:26:30] it's it's deeply regretful and when you don't do that it's it's a problem yeah and and I
[02:26:35] actually you've got to kind of be honest with where if that's the goal like for real goal you know
[02:26:39] to work out every day that is a good thing as opposed to you know like I'm going to try to work
[02:26:43] out this week you know there's a difference is what I'm saying so hey well there's a big difference
[02:26:47] you're not going to try and work out every day and I'm going to work out every day yes sir yeah
[02:26:52] and then if you want to talk about just keep it real yeah and as far as better and where it's
[02:26:59] goes for sure for sure anyway so when we work out every single day is this conversation we're going
[02:27:04] to have with life in a jockel is that what's happening because that's what I'm feeling I think it's
[02:27:08] it's widely unnecessary to have it with you at this time you know I'd rather go ahead you know
[02:27:13] your joints will jam you up if you let him I'm not going to talk too much about this right now
[02:27:19] I don't even appreciate that I don't think we should anyway I don't think we should even think about
[02:27:24] it that much right it at all joint should be a thing you don't think about you seem to say
[02:27:29] at point I see where you're going with this and I like it yeah what should we be thinking about
[02:27:34] gains obvious yes yes so let the joints just be joints he seems saying anyway so if the joints are
[02:27:40] monopolizing your attention here's what you do boom jockel feel joint warfare these are for your
[02:27:45] joints for sure super krill oil for your joints I take those every day for sure every day
[02:27:50] you know what actually I I had I had an eye surgery recently and so I had to stop taking it for a
[02:27:55] little bit and like I know it what's crazy about those is when you stop taking them like why they
[02:28:01] stop taking why did they actually tell me to but like I just you know I just I just didn't take them
[02:28:08] for like three or four days you know because you were like laid up and whatever not really laid up
[02:28:12] but just just like I got I got off your routine I was off my routine yeah and it was it was
[02:28:19] like I I feel it I definitely feel it and there's it's it's it ain't just it's real it really is man
[02:28:28] you feel the joints and and I think both both krill oil and joy warfare are awesome love yeah
[02:28:33] man it just keeps you kind of boom on the path in that way so boom yeah don't worry about
[02:28:38] joints anymore you don't have to is what I'm saying anyway another thing you don't want to be
[02:28:42] worrying about is getting sick because that's one of those things is face it we're not every day like
[02:28:47] fighting to boost our immune system or something like this maybe we are maybe not consciously
[02:28:56] okay so when you wake wake up yeah well you better do some good enough you better up
[02:29:02] doco so at for a yeah whenever you wake up are you like okay let me get this immune boosting
[02:29:09] scenario cracking right now it's consciously part of your routine consciously part of my routine
[02:29:15] I have my supplements lined up when I go into brush my teeth in the morning doesn't count
[02:29:22] I do what I'm supposed to do totally doesn't count what I go into brush my teeth at night
[02:29:26] I do what I'm supposed to do that includes both brushing my teeth taking my supplementation
[02:29:30] and flossing which I never flossing till I join the Navy the Tome and Flossing so I
[02:29:34] are flossing okay cool do you take supplements pre workout yes yeah me too yep what are you taking
[02:29:40] I take three super curl three joint warfare and vitamin D oh like for the pre workout you mean
[02:29:46] like for the workout you know it's but I it's different not for the workout but be prior to
[02:29:51] yes I do yeah is that what you're asking yeah like is that when you take them rather than do you
[02:29:56] take something before the workout for the workout yeah yeah yeah usually yeah usually the
[02:30:04] no it's that's it's good I just I just was kidding yeah I do I take it every morning
[02:30:10] it's part of my routine and then in at night and we had this whole guy I do not want to talk
[02:30:16] about this right now but echo did not have a routine and therefore he would miss just like
[02:30:21] you just said life you got out of your routine and you miss like that's a real thing set up a routine
[02:30:26] follow it yeah and that's an invariant sometimes to make sure they're terrorist aren't tracking you all good
[02:30:31] I know yeah good idea yeah and when you all out of the routine workout or taking the you know
[02:30:39] the supplements supplementation as we like to say um that can sort of become the routine
[02:30:45] same same or part of it it is not even thinking about it all right well anyway back to the
[02:30:50] immune system thing so technically you're just like hey I'm gonna go ahead and take this stuff so
[02:30:56] I don't have to worry about my immune system kind of thing you're not consciously what look
[02:31:00] I'm not splitting hairs here but it's significant it's significant it's kind of think anyway
[02:31:06] immune system like ultimate point with that is you don't have to worry about that either no vitamin D
[02:31:12] three and call the doctor and call the or boom look the combo now you're really not worrying about it
[02:31:18] anyway also after you're done not worrying about these things you don't have to worry about now let's
[02:31:25] start with the conscious stuff okay we got discipline right good really good helps you think I would say
[02:31:31] think but here's what I noticed about this about this but this plan where it's one of those ones where
[02:31:38] you know how like when you go somewhere like you always want to have a little drink going whether
[02:31:41] be water or whatever I think this is the best thing for that I agree maybe not before we go to
[02:31:47] bed or whatever but yeah I thought you pound that I just watched you I just crushed two of these
[02:31:55] dude this is my new that you were notably smarter this entire podcast I noticed it but what are you saying
[02:32:02] the bar wasn't very high okay I gotta say I am not a sour apple sour apple guy like I if I was
[02:32:10] a kid eating jolly ranchers like I would leave the sour apples there unlike JP to know sour apple
[02:32:17] sniper is legit yeah that is it's awesome my family actually is all over the map I mean don't give
[02:32:25] me wrong dax savage oh it's dax savage you're going through dax savage has been my go to for a while
[02:32:30] but uh but sour apple sniper is is awesome and I gotta give JP credit for that's legit it's awesome
[02:32:38] yeah those I'm kind of with your family and that one where here's what I found and this might be
[02:32:42] the case for all this it's only reason I'm mentioning it so remember yeah when it first came out I was
[02:32:46] like man this is the best one a little bit better than jockel pomer what straight up yeah so that's what
[02:32:52] I heard a lot of that and you know it's funny people like say it to me like you're all in either
[02:32:56] one or two ways one is like you know I kind of like this sour apple sniper like they kind of
[02:33:03] ashamed to tell me and then the other ones like sour apple sniper is way better yeah so you can
[02:33:08] yeah yeah so but I did find out there's like a deeper game within the game it was it was probably
[02:33:14] better because it was new straight up because I kept out there no sweet yeah here and I'll
[02:33:24] tell you something else just just to just to people might be thinking about this I want to drink
[02:33:30] this stuff all day long yeah I want to drink jockel pomer I want to drink it all day long but it
[02:33:35] does have caffeine in it 95 milligrams caffeine so I don't want to drink seven discipline goes so we are
[02:33:42] making a discipline go type drink that doesn't have any caffeine but and it's it's going to be a ginger
[02:33:50] ale flavor a ginger flavor and I've already approved the taste of it and it's really good and
[02:34:02] what's cool about it is it's it's on the sweet side I have to admit the sour apple sniper kind
[02:34:07] of started making me like yeah start leaning me a little bit more sweetness so the ginger
[02:34:14] is it's it's nice sweet but here's what makes me think about it is that night you know you
[02:34:18] get done with eating your tomahawk steak sure and you have a little sweet tooth but you're too full
[02:34:24] for a mulk because that's face it we could go just straight to mulk get your dessert on but you're
[02:34:29] a little bit full the tomahawk was bigger than normal okay but you want to have a little
[02:34:33] little sweetness crack it open boom there you go decaf yeah decaf so we're working it okay good
[02:34:39] well there it is there's also discipline powder by the way life you mentioned pre-workout that's
[02:34:43] might go to pre-workout to the discipline powder with water most of the time we actually were talking
[02:34:48] about this like that I the the discipline powder is awesome what flavor do you like lemon lime
[02:34:54] tame is legit because jaccopommer powder is freaking legit the other day it was sour and
[02:35:02] so cold is good for sure and I made I made I mixed up a picture like you do and like they do
[02:35:09] in the like they do in Texas bro a big glass picture I filled it up with ice put the jaccopommer
[02:35:15] in there and it was a huge amount and I just drank that thing all day it was freaking awesome
[02:35:20] so get your jaccopommer on yeah agree my recommendation also you know what what's cool about that
[02:35:26] I think with the powders you can you can dilute a little bit you know so you can you can you can
[02:35:30] have the attention I have a problem good like many Americans the problem that many Americans myself
[02:35:37] included have is simply stated more it's better so so I like mixed these things it what's these
[02:35:45] things called deco these these glass things are no wait what do you mean the glass tumbler
[02:35:51] tumbler so I get these tumblers and you know let's face it you only need two
[02:35:56] scoops of discipline into one of these tumblers well in your case but I will know doubt
[02:36:01] but I will know doubt put four scoops in there more is better and it doesn't need it but
[02:36:06] you know you just think I might as well get that extra little later I know it's going to be a
[02:36:11] good time with the mustard when we've got a tumbler up there on the stage mixed up and you get
[02:36:15] you're drinking at the bottom of it you just get all powdered here let's get so you're
[02:36:21] going to fire this thing up here you're good so yeah that's you know okay let's just talk
[02:36:26] about that for one second okay the early musters where we were disorganized on the back end we we
[02:36:32] had a lot of stuff to learn and so we would sleep not at all I'm in the New York
[02:36:36] Muster we slept a one hour one night if that and the next time we got like an hour and 45 minutes
[02:36:42] and if it says you're cognitive if you sleep less than five hours it's like your drunk
[02:36:49] have you ever heard that yeah if you sleep less than five hours it's like your drunk your
[02:36:53] it has her to humanity meanwhile you and I are up on stage for seven straight hours that day
[02:37:00] answering questions you know people are coming at us with all kinds of leadership problems and
[02:37:07] I didn't hear you up there going I'll tell you what you're not in my bed
[02:37:13] how do they come up with that who's the scientist this says like well here drunk if you
[02:37:17] slept less than you and look I'm not trying to get crazy here and you know for everyone that
[02:37:22] freaks out about this in discipline goes freedom field manual I explain sleep is necessary I get it
[02:37:27] it it's good for you it's healthy I tell everyone get as much sleep as you can I'm totally
[02:37:32] down for the cause sleep it's great but to go and say hey if you don't get eight hours you're a
[02:37:39] drunk you're in a quiff and a being drunk and all that's it think about in Vermonty man
[02:37:43] we're launching on drunk cop Falcon you know we're going into South Central Remadi neither
[02:37:48] you or I had slept at all yeah we were up we've been up for 24 hours at that point and we're
[02:37:53] launching on operation where we're going to be out on the battlefield for 48 hours so it's like
[02:37:58] what do you do like you you just power through like this you just be yeah there's I mean you know
[02:38:04] when we when we got into position and I got security set like I tried to take her down for an hour
[02:38:08] you know just to try to get a get some shut eye while I could while I was dark before the sun
[02:38:13] came out we knew we were going to get it on as we got attacked but life requires that you're going
[02:38:18] to have some sleep this night and you got to be able to get some and and you can get some more
[02:38:23] if you have some a little bit of discipline on a little bit of discipline go whatever have we
[02:38:27] had some discipline go on the cop Falcon up would have been that much better I think Relady would
[02:38:32] have been secured a lot quicker I think the drunk reference comparison was like when you're driving
[02:38:40] yeah okay so now if they take oh the number of actions that happen from people that are drunk
[02:38:44] to the number of people that fall asleep the wheel okay cool got it in a way I got it in a way being
[02:38:49] like overly tired driving could then again I don't know could be worse if it's because people
[02:38:55] were sick of the wheel because you can't control it you get the point where you can control it
[02:38:58] with like being drunk because it's you know it's facing sometimes when people are drunk behind
[02:39:03] the wheel they get like more daring and aggressive so they'll you know it's less that like
[02:39:09] oh they're drunk and they drift as trash you're saying it's their attitude more than their
[02:39:14] motor speed in there yeah this and then sure a lot of times you can't react as fast as you're talking
[02:39:19] about lack of sleep so it's kind of like leaving nylon at like two o'clock in the morning
[02:39:25] the red bull run yep and had we had some discipline go back then obviously we'd be that much better
[02:39:31] we know she was good away we'd been good to go you know so hey you know again not to split
[02:39:37] hairs but you know these things sometimes you know you add a little nuance little explanation
[02:39:42] they start to make more sense yeah it was what I think that's what I mean what else we got
[02:39:46] job white team or your kid milk milk what else anything else talk a little bit bunch of cool stuff
[02:39:52] yeah and so by the way you can get a bit origin main dot com you can also get them at the
[02:39:55] vitamin shop and you can get them at a little place called wawa in Florida and the Virginia area
[02:40:04] and by the way if you're in those areas go get some yeah going to a wawa clean it out
[02:40:11] yeah it's a different situation like I mentioned before is it because look online even if you
[02:40:15] got to go I mean vitamin shop Scott is convenient storage like they're not everywhere whatever
[02:40:20] but is a different situation you got to go on there you got to make it a point to stock up and all
[02:40:24] this stuff right now you can just grab one on the ghost way different here's what the here's what
[02:40:27] the folks at wawa are wondering who wants this stuff should they should they put it in every store in
[02:40:33] America that's what they're wondering wherever store that they have if you want to you can support
[02:40:40] the cause just clean them out let them know we want we want it is in demand it's in demand
[02:40:50] all right also yes okay you you mentioned origin main dot com that's where you get the can get
[02:40:55] jockel fuel which is all of this stuff also at origin main dot com is jujitsu stuff geese rash
[02:41:00] guards some shirts on there and also of course jeans and boots American made delta denim is
[02:41:06] back in the game by the way if you're awaiting on delta jeans they're back and we got more denim
[02:41:11] so we're good very good also I got my Lincoln boots getting broken in right now nice little
[02:41:16] jut nice what do you mean Lincoln boots that's what that's the one with the toe cap oh that's
[02:41:21] yeah the model did you did you request the toe cap or did you just get it from Pete he just sent you
[02:41:26] what he want yeah you got to watch out dude Pete is sneaky Pete tries to try to impose his will
[02:41:35] on you like I was like no I don't want to talk out I don't know as I said I don't come to the
[02:41:40] Lincoln's give me the regular ones and he goes yeah yeah I didn't watch shows up at my house
[02:41:44] the regular ones and the pair of Lincoln's and I'm like bro he does he does these little sneaky
[02:41:50] things and he thinks he's getting one over on you that's the thing Pete we're track it bro
[02:41:56] we are tracking he likes to do that I like the toe cap it's good oh oh here's another thing you
[02:42:01] did to me I said hey bro I wear white geese I wear white geese so you know this was
[02:42:08] pretty early into the whole merger and he's like he's like oh yeah yeah definitely what does he send
[02:42:16] me and I said you know what in a stretch maybe a black bee why is that by the way
[02:42:21] traditions the tradition it's the tradition the first geek he sends me no shit it's blue
[02:42:28] the only color I said hey look he don't send me a blue geese I I wear a white geese maybe I get it
[02:42:34] black you know what the you know the most popular color to get geese and the like just an origin
[02:42:40] oh which means yes in the world black yes black yeah which which to me white was the
[02:42:46] tradition that's what we do we keep a tradition but let's face it what's the facts the facts is
[02:42:52] everybody wants to be an ninja that's what it is they're having a little yeah makes sense for me
[02:42:59] I want to be Charles Bronson in the movie the mechanic they're they're wearing white geese and
[02:43:06] that's what I always refer back to in my opinion some of my training partners and instructors
[02:43:12] I've sent them as a gift origin rift geese and we are I think we're six for six for black
[02:43:19] yeah the black riffs yeah did you request white no no I said tell me what you want oh yeah
[02:43:27] there's a little one said me a black one well that's that means a lot coming from Todd White
[02:43:33] right because he's an artist he understands the color palette yeah he's not sure same he's
[02:43:39] down there thinking what will look good the it I got to say though on the for the riffs we've got
[02:43:43] we've also got six out of six like outstanding reviews as well the rift is ridiculous yeah it's kind
[02:43:52] of junk not the ghee but the situation because you know a lot of us we have more than just the one
[02:43:57] ghee you know so you do the rift now all those other geese sort of seem absolutely a little bit you know
[02:44:02] like you don't put that down you know the old ones you know yeah that's just how it's like a new
[02:44:09] iPhone when you get the new iPhone you're kind of like this is old well it happened with the iPhone
[02:44:15] not the six the 11 oh the no seriously the the iPhone six you're like oh you know it's okay
[02:44:23] and the battery run out the pictures sucked and all this stuff I was with the dorogan
[02:44:28] like last year and we were we were taking pictures of the sunset while we were hunting
[02:44:33] yes his picture looked freaking he had an iPhone 11 it looked brilliant filled with colors it
[02:44:39] looked like a freaking national geographic picture because we were taking pictures of the sunset so you
[02:44:43] could see like the mountains and then there was the horizon and then there was a sky all beautiful colors
[02:44:47] my picture just looked like black on the bottom and white on top and I then I just said I'm
[02:44:53] an idiot they call that dynamic range yeah so what you're saying is you don't realize
[02:44:59] that you don't realize how good something can be until you actually try out the new and I
[02:45:04] think it like task in a bruiser I was like I thought we were pretty good in my first task
[02:45:08] in it until we were in bruiser and like actually weren't that good task in bruiser better
[02:45:12] and the rift is definitely like that girl and like okay it's kind of a game but Pete I don't think
[02:45:19] he's sneaky I think oh he's sneaky but I think he's like smart he's in that way because look
[02:45:24] there's what it was we think he's a big difference yeah that's what I'm saying I agree with his
[02:45:29] difference so the the the the ghee right so I wasn't down for the other color geese either all
[02:45:35] ahead it was white for a reason like I'm like cause you're one of my black belts one of the people
[02:45:39] yeah I yeah it was true but here's what Pete was thinking is my hypothesis he was like look I
[02:45:45] get it they like the white he that's the tradition can argue with that but they just haven't felt
[02:45:50] the power the pleasure of the black he they just if I can get them to somehow feel what I'm
[02:45:54] feeling about okay so he'll give you a friend when you be like I can't wear this thing and you put it
[02:45:59] on you're like feel like I can't wear the eye of the ninja after all right Pete is successful boom
[02:46:04] did that with the boots for you Pete gets some level of credit for his sneaking this but just so you
[02:46:10] know Pete Roberts listening to this I'm I'm seeing your moves bro I'm seeing your moves you're not
[02:46:16] getting anything by me I get it you keep it up Pete yeah yeah I'm just 100% also what do we have okay
[02:46:23] jockel has a store it's called jockel store we got some new stuff on there by the way
[02:46:28] ladies are back in by the way those are big I look at this for winter time yes sir miss yeah
[02:46:35] you know the last last season you know when we got sweatshirts made
[02:46:40] oh yeah we're trying to you know tighten things up a little bit you know I'm pretty stoked
[02:46:45] about of the jockel store is the board shorts yes sir yeah those kind of are coming for fall winter
[02:46:51] two which is kind of off beat but hey man hey look we're happy it's a process look I've been asking
[02:46:56] for them for three and a half years so I'm glad we're I'm glad they're there and there we go yeah exactly
[02:47:01] right yeah they're pretty good they run a little bit loose though the boards shorts a little bit loose
[02:47:06] that's run that's good that's good for me yep yep yep yeah I don't you got to squeeze the tree
[02:47:13] trunk legs into you can't be doing the skinny jeans skinny board shorts doesn't work yeah that's
[02:47:19] good stuff a little bit of room yeah and some stuff on there coming up too as well so
[02:47:26] if also we have an email list on there if you want to sign up to get notify what he called
[02:47:31] notifications for new stuff what you didn't know the word notification what I'll just happen
[02:47:36] no I was about to say like if you want a notify you know you use the wrong word for the wrong
[02:47:41] context anyways okay I was what he called dotting my eyes crossing my teeth this is my
[02:47:46] name like it unless um jockels door dot com you want to represent while you're on this path that's
[02:47:51] where you do it also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on your eye uh iTunes and
[02:47:59] wherever you listen to podcasts yeah this is not the only podcast we have by the way we also have
[02:48:04] jockel unraveling which I do a Darryl Cooper Margar made fame of Margar made fame there you go Darryl
[02:48:13] uh grounded podcast which is about to jit to warrior kid podcast we got some a little bit of time
[02:48:21] I'm gonna squeeze in some grounded some warrior kid podcast in the near future we got a youtube channel
[02:48:27] and if you want to subject yourself to videos where echo Charles has complete creative control
[02:48:36] to make everything blow up everything catch on fire then you can check it out and the only and if
[02:48:41] it's long as it's a video less than five minutes there may be cool stuff if it's a long video
[02:48:46] that actually would be nice to see some effects and they won't be there okay you know I
[02:48:51] guess and you can see what life looks like if you're not um or if you're intrigued by his
[02:48:57] Texas Batman um persona voice wise get a pretty appropriate way to put it we got something called
[02:49:05] psychological warfare it's an album with tracks that I talked to you about overcoming your moments
[02:49:09] of weakness you can get that on any MP3 platform out there in the world it was the number one
[02:49:18] selling spoken word album for 11 months on iTunes and it makes sense it makes sense because it's not
[02:49:26] just artistically uh good or whatever it's effective function uh how many spoken word albums are
[02:49:33] there a ton of the questions yeah there's that I will say this there's something in the universe where
[02:49:39] sometimes you know how you're like if your bluetooth on your phone just randomly syncs up at your car
[02:49:44] and like if my kind of darkest or lowest moments like it seems to like sync up and just random
[02:49:50] these select and it's Jocco's voice and it's usually it max of all you everything happens
[02:49:54] for a little bit yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that moment of weakness creeping in and you're probably
[02:49:57] heading to the donut shop and that thing comes on uh also flipside canvas my brother Dakota Meyer
[02:50:05] flips on canvas dot com he's making graphic representations of the path and other basically cool stuff
[02:50:13] I know you just we got stuff coming from flip time you guess uh we've got uh we got good
[02:50:20] check and uh we've got this one equals freedom we got all kinds of we got default aggressive
[02:50:26] Grandha and we've got a bunch of posters as well of the mustard and a vashlan front you know
[02:50:32] and back with troopers you mean you didn't get a poster that had like an outstretched hand on the
[02:50:39] cliff and another hand going to it and it says underneath teamwork you know those posters like
[02:50:47] the freaky the poster posters the wolf howling and it's leadership on it yeah those posters
[02:50:54] at flipside canvas we do not sell those posters we sell posters that that can only be described
[02:51:03] with one word legit the posters are legit and Dakota and Mandy on the team are awesome awesome
[02:51:11] work with we got some books about face first edition with the forward by me which is just
[02:51:22] freaking an honor to be able to do we got the code the evaluation the protocol leadership strategy
[02:51:28] and tactics field manual warrior kid way the warrior kid one two and three by the way
[02:51:36] way the warrior kid four you can preorder it right now it's called way of the warrior
[02:51:42] do you know what the name of the new way the warrior kid is you might know yes do you know what it is
[02:51:46] I do not it's called way of the warrior kid four field manual premises the last day of school
[02:51:55] you know marksman having some hard years but now he's kind of getting dialed in last day of school
[02:52:00] kid comes up to him and says hey you know I've never really talked to you before and I notice
[02:52:05] you know you wear that warrior kid I see you doing pull ups with your friends and this kind of
[02:52:10] kid's kind of shy and he says I really wanted to be a warrior kid like you and now it's too late
[02:52:17] because I'm moving away and you know I just wish I could have hung out with you and so Uncle Jake
[02:52:24] shows up and and Mark tells Uncle Jake about this and says you know hey this I feel really bad
[02:52:31] this kid's moving away he wanted to be a warrior kid he was too shy to say anything and he's you know
[02:52:36] wanted me to help him but I don't know what I could do and Uncle Jake says I know what you can do
[02:52:41] right him a field manual on how to be a warrior kid so there you go and uh it's the same
[02:52:47] let's say shape and size as the discipline equals freedom field manual you may notice some
[02:52:53] similarities when it comes to the layout just the layout of the cover it's funny
[02:53:00] John Bosaque the artist the designer whenever I say it's like a good idea he always says I think
[02:53:10] you might be on to something there so I was explaining the cover warrior kids in the
[02:53:15] later he is I think you might be on to something there so yeah so way the warrior kid for is
[02:53:20] available mic in the dragons which has been described as the greatest children's book ever written
[02:53:28] I that's what I've heard sure I mean I'm not look I wrote it I don't want to you know be
[02:53:33] out of line here but apparently a lot of people think a lot of people think and the discipline
[02:53:41] equals freedom field manual oh by the way there's a new version of that coming out you know what
[02:53:45] it's called Mark one mod one you know what that means kind of yes some cameras are like that this
[02:53:51] I go mark one mark two mark three so this is the first modification to the original discipline equals
[02:53:56] freedom field manual there's a bunch of new pages in there wrote about a bunch of new things
[02:54:03] so you can check that out and then of course there's a little book called Extreme Ownership
[02:54:09] that I wrote with my brother Dave Babin and the follow up to that book which is called the
[02:54:15] dichotomy of leadership the things that we heard us talking about today if you want to see how to
[02:54:21] take those things and apply them to the what you're doing in life whether it's your business whether it's
[02:54:27] your first respond whatever you're doing whatever you're doing if you're interacting with other human beings
[02:54:33] get to the source extreme ownership in the dichotomy leadership
[02:54:38] Ashland front what's up with Ashland front Dave we got got like going on with Ashland front work with
[02:54:43] leaders all the time you know as we talk about it just been phenomenal watch them particularly through
[02:54:48] this tough times of you know some some economic turmoil through COVID lockdowns and and unrest across
[02:54:54] riots across America etc like it's been it's been awesome to see companies taking apply those
[02:54:59] principles and so we've got got some great stuff going on Ashland front I think particularly for
[02:55:04] EF online are we if we have redesigned that thanks to the great echo Charles who put some
[02:55:11] mastery behind that are for our our our landing page and design and set up and we've streamlined the process
[02:55:18] of logging on that thing and we've got troopers from I think I'm glad you get the great echo
[02:55:23] Charles I seem to end up with the average echo Charles over here I think we're wreck is wrecking
[02:55:28] I think we're happy with that good joke I think we have 46 countries around the world represented
[02:55:36] yeah EF online what we're doing is we're look our goal our mission at Ashland front is to teach
[02:55:41] the leadership lessons that we learned on the battlefield that we translate into everyday business
[02:55:46] everyday life how to lead how to lead up and down the chain of command doesn't matter if you're
[02:55:51] it doesn't matter if you're the the CEO or a frontline person that's not in charge of anyone
[02:55:56] when you are interacting with other human beings you are in the leadership position you can
[02:56:02] you can do things to improve the mission you can do things that will improve your station in life
[02:56:09] go to ef online dot com we got courses about this stuff we do live training all the time if you
[02:56:15] want to ask me a question if you want to ask a lay for question about something he said today go on
[02:56:19] there go to ef online dot com for that we are standing by to help spread the word
[02:56:27] we have the master the master is there's only one this year due to covid and there is going to
[02:56:37] be in Dallas, Texas December 3rd and 4th I just did a gig and you know there's 500 people there
[02:56:45] there's social distancing happening so it's going to be something like that we'll take precautions
[02:56:51] but the muster's on yeah we're super excited to meet with troops it's been such a bummer
[02:56:57] they have to have cancel to them yeah but I'm really excited to have this one here December Dallas
[02:57:02] here's another another bummer is that since we canceled the other two most people at the other two
[02:57:07] transfer their tickets to this one which means it's gonna sell out like they always do so
[02:57:15] if you want to come just try and register early it's extreme ownership dot com
[02:57:19] and we also have efo Overwatch from day one we've had people asking us hey where can we get people
[02:57:28] that understand these leadership principles eventually we started this company efo Overwatch go
[02:57:33] to efoverwatch dot com we got Mike Sarelli at the helm if you heard him on podcast 244
[02:57:39] him and George Randall they they geek out about hiring and getting people into companies taking
[02:57:49] leaders military leaders that understand these principles train in these principles and then show
[02:57:54] up at companies and help you lead your company to victory go to efoverwatch dot com and if you want
[02:58:01] to help service members active service members retired service members their families
[02:58:07] gold star families around the world then you can check out marklies mom she has an
[02:58:13] charity organization momally if you want to donate or get involved then you can go check out
[02:58:21] america's mighty warriors dot org and if you're a massacist if you like pain and you just want
[02:58:29] more of my discordant declarations or if you want more punishment in the form of echoes disoriented
[02:58:40] die at tribes or you want to get some more a lathe prolonged proclamations then you can find us
[02:58:48] on the interwebs lathe is on twitter at lathe baban he's on instagram which echo will only refer to
[02:58:56] as the gram at real af baban and he's on facebook at lathe baban and of course echo is at echo
[02:59:03] Charles and i'm at jocca willink and thanks to general bruise clerk for your service to our
[02:59:11] great nation for your leadership and guidance that continues to have an impact today and thanks to
[02:59:18] all of our service men and women who are out there leading and also having an impact in the world
[02:59:24] by protecting our freedom and of course to police and law enforcement and firefighters
[02:59:33] and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correction officers and board of patrol and secret
[02:59:38] service and all other first responders thank you for protecting and keeping us safe here at home
[02:59:46] and to everyone else out there remember these lessons from general clerk
[02:59:51] remember that the commander must be a model soldier he must master the technique of war he must
[03:00:01] expand and improve his knowledge he must exhibit daily stamina and courage and above all
[03:00:10] he must set the example and you set the example every day by going out there
[03:00:18] and getting after it until next time this is life and echo and jocco out