Jocko Podcast 243 w/ The White Buffalo. Finding a Way Back Home. Life, Death, and Music.

2020-08-19T23:07:19Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @buffaloco 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:07 - "Wish It Was True", by The White Buffalo. 0:16:23 - Jake Smith, The White Buffalo. 1:41:26 - "No History", by The White Buffalo 1:44:50 - How to stay on THE PATH JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/nutrition Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:05:35 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

No way he wasn't on that album But there was a guy Tommy Andrews who's from San Diego as well who was my base player for the first ten years of my career Played guitar on that album and new Matt and this guy Russell Hayden We played banjo in Dobro like the most evil I can banjo you ever you heard and uh, but it was perfect for his creepy evil banjo I mean like where he wouldn't what he would like just like live him and now he in like to know how he brows and he'd be like like like an awesome banjo I mean, it was even part of the fashion, like you, you couldn't really like everything If you were into one thing, that's what you looked like, you had the big hair or if you were in a punk You, you know, maybe it looked like a skin head, if you were in, you know, you wore the pants, If you were in a country, you had the pants with the stitching, you know, or it's like Like you know on the labels you know, it wasn't like I had That know how or any of the anything when I'm independently releasing things No, but it wasn't like it was fucking six months set up To be like alright the albums gonna come out may you know 20th then we're gonna be promoting this thing for no You know, you over the open-chair mind traveling when I was in the sealed teams I was on deployment when I would be on deployment I would know in my mind like every day I would know that this was the best you know, I was kind of just loving life you know living You don't people always say living in the dream I was living the dream I was actually doing exactly what I always dreamed of doing from my whole life What's amazing Seems like that's what would be you know you be on tour I used to say, okay, so you, to me that used to mean to me, you have no personality You don't say, bro, I like, I like Nordic, death metal, whoever, then I know who you are Or you know, I like the dead, okay, I know who you are or whatever You know, I like, whatever, hair metal, You just think hey, it's fun I want to do it, but I'm not I don't have the know how or maybe the drive really to really know What I'm doing and my brother was my manager had something to do so and shit, but we have found this old tape and it had a We had this little band in in in Huntington Beach like right one out of the been playing guitar for like Six months maybe and these guys heard me singing that like holy shit like let's start a band and they wouldn't go Basically, I play drums when we started a band called the living room right. And of course, we got the little, we got tape cassettes too, you get the dub tape cassette But even that was kind of hard to get because they would all sound like crap Not that we really cared that much, I mean, let's face it Nowadays, everybody kind of listens to everything There's a lot out there Not to mention the crop, all the crossover Seems same, you got country and you got what the naz kid You know, old town road, you know, they got, we got a lot across the, just want to say So you could, you're just opening it up even wider Because, oh yeah, now you really are listening to everything Things are getting crazy It's a kind of upsetting now Really, like when they start rapping in country They do throw you for a loop sometimes, yeah and I just think it's very visceral and the way that we approach Like it's like the last show of our lives, you know, we do that every night and I don't know any other way to do it, you know, and Matt doesn't Christopher, we're just like, you know, a few wild animals up there. It was more money than I'd ever seen and it was like oh, okay, here's you know I could have lived off that that was more money than I'd made probably in the previous four years You know, I'm doing of doing the music so you are getting it's like it's like you're uh You know when you were a kid Maybe I tell this You know why though I think Because you know like I used to do when I used to make Like more Like don't show me say like narrative type videos It's like feel like I can make it, you know, but And then what's the deal on you know, what are you oh, in other words, are you like, hey, I better get another album out and another, you know, because you just you just put out your latest album, what? And so he was kind of always blown away by the idea like how did this sort of this child come from You know, he used to say that he could throw ball at me Like when we were young, my brother was like a year and a half, all of a, he could just throw a ball at me when I was like two maybe and I was like, oh, let's go get a guitar When you talk about music, I don't know if you think this, I think this, when I was younger Like within, when I met someone, shook their hands, hey nice to meet you, within the first Let's say seven to nine minutes of talking to someone, I would say what kind of music do you like? But if you want to see what Jake Smith the white buffalo looks like if you want to figure out why they call him the white buffalo You because he kind of represents that Wipe off you know visual kind of way Come and check it out subscribe to the YouTube YouTube channel hit like Smash the like And instead I was able to be 100% true to the songs that I write that artists that I wanted to be And never had to do anything that I didn't want to do It always my vision and always 100% from me, which is Super rare these days, especially I mean there's like, you know, the song on the radio you got 15 people wrote it, you know, it's like It's kind of unheard of So I was on the athletic side, especially for a big man That I was going to be like, the next like cow ripkin, like, you know, and he was, you know, big I mean, to get people during parts of the show that You know, the people want to fight during this time people are crying, you know, and you'll see right you see like a military guy in a Fucking hippie in there and you know, and some guy from some other completely different background

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 243 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink. Good evening, I go. Good evening.
[00:00:12] It's a different world when you get home.
[00:00:18] I mean, at some point while you're over there, you accept death.
[00:00:33] You give away normal life, you give away the normal world.
[00:00:40] It's probably just a coping mechanism of some kind.
[00:00:54] To just accept your fate.
[00:00:59] To accept your fate.
[00:01:01] That the world is war.
[00:01:10] That the world is dirt and blood and pain and death.
[00:01:15] And you have to accept that.
[00:01:19] At least I did.
[00:01:27] Then I'd be lying to you.
[00:01:33] If I said that I didn't want that acceptance that I didn't want that attitude.
[00:01:44] Because the world, the normal world, the everyday world is a complicated place.
[00:01:57] There's all kinds of things going on.
[00:02:01] Family and friends and mortgage payments and bills to pay in a future to worry about and retirement and savings and the kids.
[00:02:17] And the list goes on.
[00:02:24] But in war, that's all gone.
[00:02:28] There really isn't even a future.
[00:02:31] Nothing else matters.
[00:02:35] Nothing but the mission and the men.
[00:02:42] That was my concern.
[00:02:48] Do I think about my family?
[00:02:50] Sometimes.
[00:02:59] I had other things to think about.
[00:03:03] I had other things to worry about.
[00:03:06] Bullets and bombs and blood and shit and life and death.
[00:03:11] And you go through it.
[00:03:19] You get through it.
[00:03:29] Some of you do.
[00:03:34] Some of you don't.
[00:03:42] And for those that do make it through.
[00:03:49] One day, just as quickly as it started, it's over.
[00:03:56] You get on a plane and you fly home.
[00:04:07] Back to the world.
[00:04:14] And on that flight home.
[00:04:17] I only think about one thing.
[00:04:29] That I didn't bring home all my men.
[00:04:35] And then the door of the plane opens.
[00:04:44] And we're home.
[00:04:48] And then 24 hours of flight time.
[00:04:52] You go from Ramadi, I rack to San Diego, California.
[00:04:56] At least physically you do.
[00:05:13] Mentally, it's going to take a little bit more time to come around.
[00:05:19] But you soon realize that you are alive.
[00:05:27] And you have a house and a wife and kids and mortgage and a future.
[00:05:37] And you are alive and you are thankful.
[00:05:49] And you want to live a life that honors your friends that didn't come home.
[00:05:54] And then it's let's go.
[00:05:57] Let's get it on.
[00:06:00] Let's serve and fight and drink and eat and play guitar and run and roll and serve some more.
[00:06:09] Let's go.
[00:06:11] Let's do this. We're lucky to even be here.
[00:06:19] Fall on.
[00:06:21] And we're lucky to have a life that honors your friends.
[00:06:27] For me, much of that time.
[00:06:31] The surfing and the rolling and the eating and the drinking and the jam and on the get box.
[00:06:37] We're spent with Seth Stone.
[00:06:42] The Delta Patoon Commander.
[00:06:44] He bought a house a mile away from mine.
[00:06:56] He was like an uncle to my kids part of the family.
[00:07:03] And you know he's a much nicer guy than me, much friendlier than me.
[00:07:09] Always made friends.
[00:07:10] And before we left on deployment, he had somehow linked up with a guy by the name of Jean Cooper,
[00:07:21] legendary surfboard, japer.
[00:07:24] And Seth got Jean to make us some boards.
[00:07:29] Some epic boards.
[00:07:31] And when we got home, we got those boards.
[00:07:39] And we wrote them.
[00:07:44] And through Jean Seth also linked up with a guy named Mike Black that made a surf movie.
[00:07:52] If it can even be called that's kind of a crazy surf movie called Invasion from Planet C.
[00:07:58] The sci-fi surf movie.
[00:08:02] It was unique.
[00:08:06] It was kind of wild and funny and insane and just kind of completely crazy.
[00:08:13] And maybe that's why we liked it.
[00:08:16] Because it had some good surfing and it made us laugh.
[00:08:21] And also had some good music in it.
[00:08:23] Some real good music.
[00:08:28] One song in that movie was called Mad Man.
[00:08:34] It was by a band called The White Buffalo.
[00:08:41] And we heard the lyrics to the song.
[00:08:44] And they made sense to us.
[00:08:53] There's one section of lyrics that says like an animal out of his den.
[00:08:59] You better hide your money.
[00:09:01] You better hide your children.
[00:09:04] You can't keep your fear at bay because the mad man's Roman needs streets today.
[00:09:09] The mad man's common.
[00:09:17] We got that.
[00:09:20] We understood what that was all about.
[00:09:27] In the White Buffalo songs where some other surf movies along the way,
[00:09:31] one called Shelter.
[00:09:34] The song called Wrong.
[00:09:36] New some other guys in there.
[00:09:40] Joel Tudor was in that movie.
[00:09:45] So Seth figured out where the rest of this music came from.
[00:09:50] And we started listening to this white Buffalo.
[00:09:54] Came like a little soundtrack.
[00:09:59] Because the music and the lyrics and the sound and the attitude.
[00:10:02] Well, somehow it was about us.
[00:10:09] About what we had seen about what we had been through.
[00:10:16] About what we were going through.
[00:10:18] I don't really remember exactly when we went and saw the white Buffalo for the first time.
[00:10:33] I know that.
[00:10:35] We saw him one time at UCSD in some kind of cafe and there was probably about 12 people there.
[00:10:41] Some of the casbons and Diego, the belly up a few times.
[00:10:49] Eventually we saw him at bigger places like the house of blues and the observatory.
[00:10:56] And when you got somehow this guy.
[00:11:02] They got us.
[00:11:03] And I remember the first time we saw him at the Casba.
[00:11:11] And it's the last time we saw him when there was a pretty small crowd.
[00:11:17] But it was a small enough crowd that everyone that was there knew who he was.
[00:11:23] There was no people wandering in.
[00:11:25] They knew who the white Buffalo was.
[00:11:27] They were there to see him.
[00:11:28] And people were drinking and people were carrying on.
[00:11:34] And they were talking and laughing.
[00:11:39] And then the PA music faded.
[00:11:44] Then the lights went dark.
[00:11:48] And then he walked out on stage.
[00:11:52] Alone.
[00:11:53] And he played.
[00:12:02] He started strumming.
[00:12:03] And that guitar.
[00:12:33] But before the night that I pardon my ophthal Íve
[00:12:37] æitwhy thinks that I'm a fool
[00:12:42] for the nighteeeee
[00:12:45] Say that I around
[00:12:47] the night
[00:12:49] Bad rhythm
[00:12:50] Then I'm at the end
[00:12:52] And birds sail
[00:12:54] A true rhythm
[00:12:55] I'm a true hero
[00:12:56] But I don't know
[00:12:57] Now my digging a grave, whose old half could do
[00:13:08] Far him to wait back home, me gave everything
[00:13:15] Now we see what was true
[00:13:29] Father, I gave my sody
[00:13:37] I came in blind-folded view, it was all that I knew
[00:13:48] Looping your arms, then I flout a hill of tears
[00:13:54] Now we see what was true
[00:14:10] Who would come on out from the cold?
[00:14:15] You lost outside that arms and no
[00:14:19] It's not who I'd just say it's what you do
[00:14:24] Just keep away seeing you, as you're true
[00:14:29] You'll change their reality
[00:14:34] There's no pain, there's no misery
[00:14:39] It just polyester blood in the bruise
[00:14:43] Because there's just no way you can live
[00:14:49] Now we see what was true
[00:15:19] Come true, that was a soldier's view
[00:15:29] I did what's as material was strong in your new
[00:15:35] Come true, now I'm just a stranger to you
[00:15:48] And the name is true through me away when you're through
[00:15:55] Come to the brave and the free, the red white in blue
[00:16:07] I wish it was true
[00:16:10] And the place was silent for a second
[00:16:18] Set the night where we stand there like everybody else
[00:16:23] Then we looked at each other, we smiled, the place went crazy
[00:16:43] We did too
[00:16:46] It was a good night, it's a good memory
[00:16:59] And memories are all I have left of Seth now
[00:17:10] But no songs
[00:17:12] Those are some powerful songs
[00:17:21] And it's an honor today to have the man behind those memories
[00:17:26] And behind those songs
[00:17:28] The man himself, a man named Jake Smith
[00:17:32] Otherwise known as the white buffalo
[00:17:36] Jake
[00:17:38] Thanks for coming down man, thank you for having me
[00:17:44] No pressure on that set right there
[00:17:48] That was intense
[00:17:50] Yeah man, tell me about it
[00:17:54] Lots of stuff wrapped up in the songs that you write
[00:17:59] It's kind of crazy when I think about all the time that I spent sitting there listening
[00:18:03] And I'm listening to him going to your shows
[00:18:08] Just being some random dude, we almost got to fight at the belly up on time
[00:18:12] Some guys were talking just mad dog and Seth and Seth
[00:18:17] What was like six to you know
[00:18:20] And I know I look like a serial killer for sure
[00:18:24] Seth is not quite as much because he's too nice
[00:18:27] But still he's a strapping dude with a shaved head
[00:18:30] And cauliflower ears right that's generally not a go situation for scraps
[00:18:36] That's a sign
[00:18:38] So at belly up we're standing there and this dude's kind of nudging in the Seth and Seth's kind of looking at him
[00:18:43] And I'm standing behind the guy which in the Jiu-Jitsu world means I can kill you
[00:18:49] You don't know you have zero chance
[00:18:52] But it didn't happen
[00:18:54] Lots of memories man, it's awesome to have you come down here
[00:18:57] I'm excited, yeah my pleasure
[00:19:00] Let's talk a little bit about you man, enough about me
[00:19:03] I've been talking about myself here for a long time
[00:19:06] What's here about you
[00:19:08] So you were born where up in Oregon?
[00:19:11] I was born in Eugene, Oregon
[00:19:13] And what was that all about where your parents were working up there?
[00:19:16] My dad was still going to school, he's a college professor
[00:19:19] And he was
[00:19:21] I think he was still working on his master at that point
[00:19:24] And we moved down to, he might have been born from his peachy
[00:19:29] And then we moved down to Southern California, Huntington Beach
[00:19:32] When I was maybe one, he continued that at Pepper Dine
[00:19:37] And it's in student teaching and then we were there for maybe since I was one until twenty-dying
[00:19:43] Malibu
[00:19:45] Yeah, we didn't live there though
[00:19:47] But we lived in Huntington Beach, which is all of us
[00:19:49] Yeah, well, it needs gold too, but I mean, let's face it if you lived in Malibu and you surf Malibu all the time
[00:19:54] We're going to be here right now
[00:19:56] You need a whole perspective
[00:19:59] So you grew up in Huntington Beach then
[00:20:03] And what was the situation your dad's a college professor at Pepper Dine?
[00:20:08] No, my dad was a college professor at Cal State of Mingus Hills
[00:20:11] Oh, I see so he did a student teaching or if it is his PhD there and then moved on to Cal State of Mingus Hills
[00:20:20] What was he teach?
[00:20:22] Public administration?
[00:20:24] What even is that?
[00:20:26] It's tough to explain, right?
[00:20:28] I think it's like the study of city budgets
[00:20:30] I think a lot of policemen take it
[00:20:32] City planners, it's like in the political science world
[00:20:36] What do you think makes a man
[00:20:38] say to themselves, they're looking at the courses
[00:20:42] And they're like, there you go, public administration, that's called my name
[00:20:46] Yeah, I don't know
[00:20:47] And he's interested by some odd things like that
[00:20:52] It was surprising, not surprising, but yeah, it's one of the lesser known
[00:20:58] You know pedagogies, it's not a normal
[00:21:03] When you say what that is, most people say
[00:21:05] What I said, exactly
[00:21:06] What I said, you know, what about your mom, what was she up to?
[00:21:09] She was a labor and delivery nurse
[00:21:12] Brother and sister
[00:21:14] You have a brother and sister, correct?
[00:21:17] You're the baby
[00:21:19] Was that whole thing work out, you know that whole thing?
[00:21:22] You know what I'm talking about?
[00:21:24] Yeah, where you're the, so now you get caught all the everything
[00:21:27] You're the spoiled kid, it's part of it
[00:21:29] You're the only kid, you're the only kid
[00:21:33] How far from the beach did you live in Huntington Beach?
[00:21:36] I live, we used to take the bus to go surf
[00:21:39] Okay, and I was young, two miles
[00:21:42] Oh, that's not bad, you could teach cruiser that all day long
[00:21:45] We could, but we busted, or got dropped off for the most part
[00:21:48] The bus was easier than a beach cruiser?
[00:21:50] I don't know why we busted, you know?
[00:21:52] It's a weird, yeah, I think it was all BMX
[00:21:55] So we were just wasn't an option to have the rack and whatnot
[00:21:59] They haven't, did they have them, you had to carry it on your arm back then
[00:22:03] I don't even know if they had the rack's back then
[00:22:06] Now you get all kinds of racks, you're good to go
[00:22:10] BMX or not, that's true, I think they, they can, how much we started on it
[00:22:14] I surf quite a bit, but it wasn't something that I picked up
[00:22:19] Super easily, it was the age of the small thin board
[00:22:22] I've always been a big dude and to ride, you know, I can't afford a slater's board
[00:22:28] I'm on a 6-3 and I'm 6-2, you know?
[00:22:31] It's a way for thin thing that I can't, you know, I'm sitting out in the line
[00:22:35] I'm up to my tits, you know, the water
[00:22:37] And it's not going to float me, it took me a while to just go like
[00:22:41] I mean, I'd probably get a bigger board, something that actually can
[00:22:44] I can paddle in the waves, that's a big mental transition to big man
[00:22:48] My buddy Josh Hall just made me a board, that's 11-6
[00:22:53] It's the thickest board I think a human could make
[00:22:58] Because my son was telling him what I wanted
[00:23:01] And they were doing this like as a secret surprise for me, right?
[00:23:05] What's that cool?
[00:23:06] I see a secret surprise behind my back
[00:23:08] So my son was telling him, hey, you know, and Josh had some ideas
[00:23:12] And my son's like, no, the biggest thickest board you could possibly make
[00:23:15] And Josh Hall delivered big time, you got to try that board
[00:23:19] I got some thick boards too, but I got a couple of one of mine looks like a paddle board
[00:23:23] But it's not a paper, yeah, it's a surfboard for a large man, right?
[00:23:28] So you, and I know you played, you were a freaking hardcore baseball player, right?
[00:23:34] I was, that was kind of my dream as a child, ended up playing college baseball,
[00:23:38] Division 1 baseball, and it's college ship, typically baseball
[00:23:40] And so I was a little bit more position than you play
[00:23:46] Until I was a senior in high school, like a great shortstop
[00:23:51] So I was on the athletic side, especially for a big man
[00:23:56] That I was going to be like, the next like cow ripkin, like, you know, and he was, you know, big
[00:24:00] That's a big statement you just made, they fought, I was going to be the next cow rip
[00:24:04] I was a little bit older than you, but that was the room Amy for that idea
[00:24:09] But then we actually had this young kid who came in as a shortstop
[00:24:12] Who was a sophomore or something, it was just a little phenom, and then I moved over to third base
[00:24:16] I didn't play, well I played baseball, my dad wanted, my dad liked really like sports a lot
[00:24:21] That's why my name is Jocco, by the way
[00:24:24] And I didn't like sports as much as him at all, I like machine guns, right?
[00:24:29] So, but I would get put in the sports randomly, oh, you know, go play little league
[00:24:36] And I was on the braves, echo gets into this kind of thing
[00:24:40] But I just wasn't really, wasn't really my thing
[00:24:44] So years later I went and talked to a professional baseball team
[00:24:48] And when I was going up, I remembered the baseball players
[00:24:51] It seemed like most of the baseball players that were pros
[00:24:54] They were like these little guys, right?
[00:24:56] Like little Dominican guys, little porn reek and guys that were fast and everything
[00:25:02] And when I went met with this team, which was a few years ago, they were freaking monsters
[00:25:07] They were all huge, yeah, oh they're massive now, I mean it's a whole different
[00:25:10] Is that a new thing?
[00:25:11] Yeah, I mean if you look even if you look at footage from the 80s, even early 90s, they were way smaller
[00:25:19] How much practice did you play?
[00:25:21] I mean, are you one of the sports was different? Like nowadays, if you're a kid and you're going to play sports, your parents
[00:25:28] Like cool, you're going to do that sport, you're going to play it 365 days a year, you're going to get coaching, you're going to get some private
[00:25:35] Whatever, hitting batting coach, that's coming to work with you and your kids like, oh, we need a batting coach
[00:25:43] Yeah, sure, no problem. Okay, here's my son, he's four
[00:25:46] Was it like that for you?
[00:25:47] I mean, I did do extra stuff and I did, you know, did extra work with hitting coaches and fielding coaches
[00:25:56] And it was definitely a big part of me, it was a, I wanted to be a major league baseball player when I was a kid
[00:26:01] And my dad, I come from kind of a wrestling family, my dad was a wrestler, my brother was a sport
[00:26:08] And, but they're, he's not a ball sport guy at all
[00:26:11] And so he was kind of always blown away by the idea like how did this sort of this child come from
[00:26:17] You know, he used to say that he could throw ball at me
[00:26:22] Like when we were young, my brother was like a year and a half, all of a, he could just throw a ball at me when I was like two
[00:26:27] And I would just like reach up and snatch it, come now, grab reflexes, probably
[00:26:32] Hit off my, you know, hit off my brother's chest and land on the floor
[00:26:35] But, but they added the, you know, they were, they were hard nose guys, you know, my dad's a, was a badass, you know
[00:26:42] What, what, how old were you started playing baseball?
[00:26:45] Actually my dad, wouldn't let his play, he thought it was too political when I was young, just with all the bullshit
[00:26:53] Where did you say I don't know, I do where you're at, how was baseball political in 19?
[00:26:57] What is his 19?
[00:26:59] I mean, I was born in 74, so, you know,
[00:27:02] It was just a lot of tension kids.
[00:27:08] You mean political like the, the dad with the kid, the dad, my kid, the emotions of that he thought
[00:27:14] Like soccer was a better game, a better family sport, that kind of thing, so we played soccer
[00:27:20] And then he finally, he budged, or look as my brother was older, me, I was one of the play baseball
[00:27:24] And then he, I mean, I was like minor B's, I was like, I was still quite young when I started playing
[00:27:28] How good was your brother?
[00:27:29] At baseball, he was fast
[00:27:33] So he had a throw, it's not about the freaking camera of the structure
[00:27:38] Ouch, I guess the ball is hitting him in the face when you hold man through his hand
[00:27:43] He was a wrestler, I mean, he was a different, oh, you're brother wrestled
[00:27:47] My brother wrestled too, yeah, okay, he did, he wrestled, my dad wrestled in college, he wrestled with organ state under Dale Thomas
[00:27:52] Dale and coach some at Oregon as well as Oregon state and my brother, he, he just wrestled in high school
[00:28:02] He was good, my high school, yeah, he's wrestling in California high school is no joke
[00:28:06] Yeah, it was the largest wrestling tournament in the world, I think he was C. I think
[00:28:10] I would say my brother, so it's a good, it's a good, props to your brother
[00:28:14] So at what point, what was your, what was your, what was your, what was your, you're dealing with music
[00:28:19] It was late, I mean, it hit me super late, I was probably, I tell the story and I don't even know the actual, how
[00:28:27] What we just did into a new or a little kid, we were country music fans, my parents were crazy about country
[00:28:32] And it was all country all the time in the, in the station wagon and we would go see country music concerts
[00:28:39] It was kind of the transition time of country when it was getting
[00:28:42] Not over the top cheesy, but you know, it was like moving to the hall and Jackson was coming in and it was getting a little more sticky
[00:28:51] Then it was kind of these heartfelt songs of my youth
[00:28:56] But yeah, it was all, it was all country music was odd for, you know, a kid to be, until I really got the high school
[00:29:02] Was exclusively country music listener and kind of proud of that fact
[00:29:08] But then I got really into punk when I was in high school, where did that come from?
[00:29:14] I'm not entirely sure there wasn't really a kid named, there was a, whatever, no, it was my, I have a check this out
[00:29:20] One of my buddies who used to take me to school in the morning, he was more of a metal head
[00:29:25] And I don't know exactly how I got and so he would listen to, you know, with this mentality, I can dance it, you know, and tracks
[00:29:33] And then I started listening to punk, but it was more of the Southern California stuff
[00:29:39] You know, I started kind of getting into higher core stuff and then that's when I got like a tar kind of
[00:29:44] But I was more like bad religion, circle jerks, descendants, stuff that was a little more melodic
[00:29:49] Me and me, you know, and then I got a guitar, we go drink beers in my buddy's house
[00:29:56] And his dad would play John Pryne songs and some of the core gear kind of Dylan songs
[00:30:04] And I was 18, 19 maybe and
[00:30:08] I was like, oh, let's go get a guitar
[00:30:11] When you talk about music, I don't know if you think this, I think this, when I was younger
[00:30:17] Like within, when I met someone, shook their hands, hey nice to meet you, within the first
[00:30:22] Let's say seven to nine minutes of talking to someone, I would say what kind of music do you like?
[00:30:30] Because it would be like a straight up indicator, it would tell you a lot about them
[00:30:35] And nowadays, like sometimes I meet, I got four kids and they're all whatever, 20, 19, 17 and 10
[00:30:44] And for a while, I would say, you know, what kind of music do you like to these kids?
[00:30:48] And they're just, it's so, there's so much music, there's so much music out there
[00:30:54] You know, you know, you used to get the weird avoidance answer to that question, it's like, oh, let's never think
[00:31:00] Yeah, you know what you're saying?
[00:31:02] I used to say, okay, so you, to me that used to mean to me, you have no personality
[00:31:06] You don't say, bro, I like, I like Nordic, death metal, whoever, then I know who you are
[00:31:13] Or you know, I like the dead, okay, I know who you are or whatever
[00:31:16] You know, I like, whatever, hair metal, life-bavin
[00:31:22] So, so you used to identify kind of like who you are, right?
[00:31:26] I mean, it was even part of the fashion, like you, you couldn't really like everything
[00:31:30] If you were into one thing, that's what you looked like, you had the big hair or if you were in a punk
[00:31:35] You, you know, maybe it looked like a skin head, if you were in, you know, you wore the pants,
[00:31:40] If you were in a country, you had the pants with the stitching, you know, or it's like
[00:31:44] Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's almost like identifier
[00:31:49] And then people nowadays, there's just so much music and it's so accessible
[00:31:56] So when I was a kid, in order to get music that we wanted to hear, we had to go to New York
[00:32:03] Maybe we had to go to a good record store, which they just weren't all of the places
[00:32:07] And the waterberry, good brassity gets on, but, you know, we'd go there and, and the, but that was part of the inhibitor
[00:32:15] The other part was money, like it costs 21 dollars for an album
[00:32:22] And, you know, we just didn't, so I, you know, I, I love music
[00:32:27] And I had probably, I don't know, 30 albums
[00:32:32] That I just listened to over and over and over and over again, the bar one from someone
[00:32:37] And of course, we got the little, we got tape cassettes too, you get the dub tape cassette
[00:32:41] But even that was kind of hard to get because they would all sound like crap
[00:32:45] Not that we really cared that much, I mean, let's face it
[00:32:48] Nowadays, everybody kind of listens to everything
[00:32:51] There's a lot out there
[00:32:53] Not to mention the crop, all the crossover
[00:32:55] Seems same, you got country and you got what the naz kid
[00:32:58] You know, old town road, you know, they got, we got a lot across the, just want to say
[00:33:03] So you could, you're just opening it up even wider
[00:33:06] Because, oh yeah, now you really are listening to everything
[00:33:09] Things are getting crazy
[00:33:12] It's a kind of upsetting now
[00:33:15] Really, like when they start rapping in country
[00:33:18] They do throw you for a loop sometimes, yeah
[00:33:20] This is not, I don't know, you're saying that's a setting, I code doesn't seem upset
[00:33:23] I just observing the landscape of music at the time
[00:33:26] I have to remember that
[00:33:29] I'll tell you, look, echoes are a decent guy
[00:33:32] When we go places he drives, I ride
[00:33:36] Which means he gets control of the music situation
[00:33:40] Which is a problem
[00:33:42] For you, I can see how that could be
[00:33:46] So, sort of, did you get, so you said you played D1 College
[00:33:50] So you get in a college, you get in a college
[00:33:52] Where'd you go to college?
[00:33:57] Went two years at a junior college in Huntington Beach
[00:34:01] Golden West College, and then I did two years at St. Mary's College
[00:34:04] Which was in the East Bay in Maraga
[00:34:07] Same league at the time at least, was like Pepper Dine, Santa Clara, Royal Merrimont, San Diego, you see San Diego
[00:34:13] You're okay
[00:34:15] Did you, so is that when you were talking that you got a guitar
[00:34:19] Was that something high school you got a guitar?
[00:34:20] Prior to that, so probably when I was 19, probably about when
[00:34:25] I don't know if it was a summer between my senior year in high school
[00:34:28] And college, your dad held you back, you were old
[00:34:32] Right?
[00:34:34] Dude, they're hardcore wrestling, like families
[00:34:38] Their kids are going to school, they're like starting
[00:34:41] They're graduating when they're 23 years old
[00:34:44] That's the way he was going to be
[00:34:46] He was a college professor, so I think education was, it was equally
[00:34:48] If not more important to him than a hard
[00:34:53] You know, dominant sports, wrestling, so
[00:34:56] Dude, wrestling is crazy man, right?
[00:34:59] I know, I mean, my kids wrestle and it's like, it's mayhem, it's mayhem
[00:35:03] You want to talk about political, your dad's talk about soccer
[00:35:06] Come through a freaking wrestling, turn around
[00:35:09] You could say go to the state championship, Baker's field california
[00:35:13] It's insane, it's awesome
[00:35:14] Okay, so you're still in high school and you're 27 years old
[00:35:19] So you're still in high school, and that's when you go
[00:35:23] You hear, you hear a little bit of acoustic music that you go
[00:35:28] Yeah, my friend's dad would play, we just drank beers and he would hang out
[00:35:32] And he would play, it's just songs and I was like, oh, it looks easy
[00:35:35] Oh, he was playing guitar, he was playing guitar and singing himself
[00:35:38] He was playing record, he was in Spending record, he was actually singing
[00:35:41] And playing them, Sam Bulo
[00:35:42] Damn, and he wrote down a few chords for me
[00:35:47] And then I was on my way, and kind of I didn't even really learn songs
[00:35:52] I started writing songs almost immediately
[00:35:54] And not with the agenda to be like, I'm gonna be a musician
[00:36:00] I was still a baseball player, that was still a dream, you know
[00:36:04] And I don't know, I just kept writing
[00:36:07] We feeling any of the baseball burn out at that point?
[00:36:12] Yeah, totally, I had it
[00:36:14] You had it, you had it, you had it
[00:36:16] You had it, you had it, you had it
[00:36:20] Now the reality of it is in high school, I was still super serious about it
[00:36:22] Once I hit Junior College, I was less serious about it
[00:36:25] And didn't even, wasn't even that great, I don't think
[00:36:28] And that actually, what would happen to Cal Rift get over here
[00:36:31] You know, you started, I don't know, he started smoking weed
[00:36:34] I was just drinking in the summer, you know?
[00:36:37] I mean at that level, if the vision one, everyone goes to
[00:36:40] Alaska or somewhere, somewhere, far off place, playing summer ball all the time
[00:36:45] And I never did that ever, I would just surf and hang out with 20th Street
[00:36:49] With my buddies, and then, you know, they're gonna move, and I come back from summer
[00:36:53] They're like, you ain't a shape, you know, right?
[00:36:56] Yeah, it wasn't, I had kind of lost the love for it a little bit
[00:37:00] But then when they went there in the paper, my college education
[00:37:01] And then when I met some all-star game, and I went off, you know,
[00:37:05] I hit like a home run in two doubles or something like that
[00:37:08] So that I could move well for a big person and I got a scholarship out of that
[00:37:13] And so I was like, well, okay, a couple more years, it's not gonna hurt anybody
[00:37:16] You know, it was actually really fun
[00:37:18] So then you, so when you got your guitar, you're still in high school
[00:37:22] And you're immediately writing songs like you had that
[00:37:24] You had that thought that I kind of, for my interpretation of that thought is
[00:37:31] It's a pain to try and learn what someone else is doing
[00:37:34] But if I just make something up, then it's a little leisure, was there any of that there?
[00:37:38] It may, and that's like the story of my old existence
[00:37:41] It's kind of just the easiest path to something, I feel like, oh,
[00:37:44] Really try that hard to be doing that, you know?
[00:37:47] And I'm assuming you never took any lessons or anything?
[00:37:50] No, I never took any lessons, I mean, the first song I wrote, I wrote a song
[00:37:52] And I knew, and I knew, like, E minor and NG, and then wrote a song
[00:37:59] Like about suicide or something like something super
[00:38:02] But like a narrative about like some guy jumping off a building or something
[00:38:05] And I was like, why is it? And I wasn't even that disturbed as a child
[00:38:08] I was like, pretty, I was pretty happy going lucky
[00:38:11] But yeah, it's immediately started writing, okay
[00:38:15] What was the name of the first song? It's called the jumper
[00:38:17] Hey, is it ever been released? No, and I was trying to remember the lyrics
[00:38:24] And I mean, they're not, they weren't as nearly as crafted as they are today
[00:38:29] Well, you got me beat because I think the first song that my band
[00:38:34] We had a bunch of bands when I was a kid
[00:38:36] And the name that we've kind of, kind of has survived is Bronson's children
[00:38:41] Name after Charles Bronson and even though we never made an album and even though we did record
[00:38:45] About 15 songs in the studio, but more important than that we made cool t-shirts
[00:38:50] So we've had these cool t-shirts that we have on the, we have on the joclist or
[00:38:54] There, there's just a picture of Bronson's face
[00:38:57] And then underneath and little kids like toddler writing
[00:39:01] It says Bronson's children, you know, if like a backwards art type thing
[00:39:06] But I think the first song that I can remember
[00:39:09] Was there was this weird televentilist dude that was on late night TV
[00:39:17] His name was Dr. Jean Scott
[00:39:20] And I remember the big
[00:39:23] Yes, that's him, that's him
[00:39:26] The public access, yeah, public access, yeah, he was kind of, he was kind of like one of these people
[00:39:30] He sort of berated the audience kind of, right?
[00:39:33] Right, I think he was like the gateway between like Donna, you or more in Pulitzer whatever
[00:39:36] That I don't even know, but anyways, we would watch him, you kind of berate his
[00:39:42] You know, you need to donate now, it was one of those things and there's then there's the whatever
[00:39:47] And so the first song
[00:39:50] In Bronson's children was a song called
[00:39:54] Dr. Scott get off the air
[00:39:59] Yes, and there was a great little chorus
[00:40:01] Where where it was get off the air and then someone was in the back would get him off the air
[00:40:07] Off the air there it was
[00:40:10] So yeah, so you were beat me man, you were already going deep early
[00:40:13] I went dark super early
[00:40:16] And then so at some point during college, so did you play your whole four years at baseball?
[00:40:21] Yeah, graduated four years and played all four years
[00:40:24] And then what what did you major in?
[00:40:26] History
[00:40:27] History was my major. Do you think in your that was that any well, was it just an easy
[00:40:32] Ate I had an inspiring teacher in junior college that made history interesting and so
[00:40:39] Decided to go that path. I don't really retain much of it
[00:40:43] But some of the time they see it in the songs and one other become a period piece songs that I'll write
[00:40:50] But yeah, not with the idea that I was going to be a teacher
[00:40:54] I mean, what do you really do with it right? I mean, I'm asking you that. Yeah, no I was still like, oh, I don't know what I'm going to do
[00:41:02] Now I got this guitar thing, oh, maybe I'll do that now, you know, how long do it take you to start thinking out man
[00:41:08] I can maybe make something work
[00:41:10] It took me a long time to even consider myself a musician I'm hardly had
[00:41:14] I don't know, 30 songs under my belt and would play it, you know, I would play it the pub
[00:41:19] I don't care how much practice did you do
[00:41:24] No, what you got the guitar did you
[00:41:27] Okay, that's awesome. No, I mean, it's still it's still a primitive. I'm still a very primitive style of playing
[00:41:34] There's nothing I don't really dazzle anybody with
[00:41:38] With my virtuosity, you know, it's just like it's the vehicle for the songs and for the voice and and
[00:41:44] You know, I know I do have my own style kind of up playing because it's fairly percussive
[00:41:50] But it's primitive, you know, I mean, I probably break strings more than anyone maybe ever
[00:41:56] On acoustic guitar for sure
[00:41:59] Pick up the guitar and you you start writing songs, you start playing songs
[00:42:02] But you didn't you're not one of these people that like I've known I had friends growing up where they got obsessed
[00:42:07] And it was they were just like learning scales and whatever the hell else you learn
[00:42:10] When you're trying to get a guitar which I never did I never never took lessons or never
[00:42:16] Yeah, and I don't it's still it took me a while to go like, oh, this is maybe what I want to do even and I just kept on writing songs
[00:42:23] And I started having kind of a catalog of songs
[00:42:26] So so when you graduate from college
[00:42:29] Do you, what did you do? Did you that that was a job that I waited tables?
[00:42:34] I waited tables. I went back and lived with my parents for a while
[00:42:38] To save up some money, waited tables, and then moved to San Francisco and waited tables
[00:42:42] And then with kind of the intention that I was going to go and start hitting the clubs and trying to make some kind of a
[00:42:48] Presence of my songwriting or my performance or whatever was going to be, you know
[00:42:54] And with the San Francisco seemed like the move for some reason
[00:42:59] I don't know if because it was close and proximity to where I went to
[00:43:02] College, I'm not sure why we chose that. I think my brother had a job there
[00:43:08] That was lined up and so we went there
[00:43:11] And lived together me my brother lived together and
[00:43:14] But it was shitty. It was not a good environment
[00:43:17] It was when DJ started taking over almost all small clubs
[00:43:20] We're years this is 98 to maybe 2002 I lived in San Francisco probably play once a year twice a year in the corner of some shit die bar or like in a coffee shop
[00:43:32] You know, smuggle some tequila and ruin the show on the second stage
[00:43:36] Kind of thing, but yeah, so 98 to 2002 you're up there you're playing occasionally in the back of some freaking whatever
[00:43:44] Yeah, you know and waiting tables to survive and
[00:43:50] But this was your goal your goal was be a musicians at this point?
[00:43:55] Yeah, but it was loose and lazy kind of and just not not realized
[00:44:01] I mean I used to not get gigs. I didn't have any net shit. I didn't have so I would make cassette tapes on my brother's through my brother's pioneer
[00:44:08] Dual cassette player through the PA through the PA and I would record and I would lay down 10 songs and then I would send him to friends and send them to family for a presence for like Christmas or or for whatever right and
[00:44:25] And
[00:44:27] I had no press
[00:44:30] I've picked some people open up on it. Oh, we got another freaking dick
[00:44:34] Oh, no, no, no, thank you. Just these going in the shit can. Oh, that's painful. So you so you're thinking or you think that's going to be a hobby. You just think hey, it's fun
[00:44:46] I want to do it, but I'm not I don't have the know how or maybe the drive really to really know
[00:44:53] What I'm doing and my brother was my manager had something to do so and shit, but we have found this old tape and it had a
[00:45:00] We had this little band in in in Huntington Beach like right one out of the been playing guitar for like
[00:45:07] Six months maybe and these guys heard me singing that like holy shit like let's start a band and they wouldn't go
[00:45:12] Basically, I play drums when we started a band called the living room right. This is
[00:45:16] Really, but you're not a good man started in the living room as well. You know, so there was all this is silly and we're fucking terrible and
[00:45:25] But on the cassette
[00:45:27] It says living room and then boom no, there's no title to the whatever the little EP thing is only cassettes by the way and
[00:45:36] Matt Smith my brother's name and his his phone number big multiple times on the
[00:45:43] It's like it looks
[00:45:45] Pretty proud. We're like we'll just look for that number
[00:45:48] I don't right. They're like wow, let's see. Let's get must have a bunch of clients brother
[00:45:55] So I'm still trying to figure this out right you're in San Francisco. It seems like you are very persistent
[00:46:02] But not very focused or maybe something like that or is it just you just didn't know what to do?
[00:46:06] I was I was passionate about writing songs and I would keep writing songs. So these
[00:46:11] Laffable cassettes that I was saying were making their way down. So I actually had a buddy who's in the surf industry
[00:46:19] And he was a rep for for some surf companies and these cassette tapes started going to other people
[00:46:26] He would give one to one and then they would make go go cassette
[00:46:29] To cassette you know old school viral
[00:46:32] School viral right
[00:46:33] Jack Smith as as much as it could be and that but way to second. I'm just going to confirm this. We're in 1998
[00:46:38] Or it's 2000 this is before that. Oh, this before that when I was making the cassettes and going to them out
[00:46:45] So this was the this was one my couple junior college years. I think that I was creating these cassettes and they were kind of
[00:46:52] Go moving around but I was unaware that other people were listening to them or the people were making duplicates of this
[00:46:59] And then I got a call from one of the guys shelter guy who made shelter Christmas
[00:47:03] Chris from one of the living in San Francisco and he said hey, I want to use one of your songs and one of my surf films
[00:47:10] And I was like what like how do you know you didn't know him at the time? I didn't know him. No, oh, this was one of the
[00:47:17] And this was one of just the cassette one to this guy to this guy and then he ended up with one and one of the songs he said he wanted to use
[00:47:24] off this one of these cassettes
[00:47:26] And I was like why you know because I was used to you know surf films were airs and punk and fast as music and they're like he's like, you know we're making this kind of more
[00:47:38] Artie thing and it was just me and acoustic guitar and was wrong. Yeah, it was wrong. Was it song
[00:47:43] And then that yeah, that was like a soul kind of yeah, there was a story and there was a shelter flick and the myloid brothers are all cool guys or
[00:47:59] So that happens and then all of a sudden, does that give you a little that is barato like that didn't even that didn't give me the
[00:48:09] That gave me a little validation and said like oh yeah, maybe I'm doing the right they're doing something this is maybe something to pursue harder
[00:48:17] They asked me to come and play the
[00:48:20] All these are just you and your guitar. Oh, yeah, there's no band no band just me solo and that's part partially of how why I play guitar the way I do
[00:48:27] Because I used to just fill the space with everything not with new toling but just with strumming and there's a lot of up down and percussive stuff
[00:48:34] And then they asked me to play the
[00:48:38] The premiere of the movie down in San Diego so I come down and I play whatever 30 minutes before the movie and I see people
[00:48:47] Singing along to other songs
[00:48:50] Of mine from these silly cassettes
[00:48:53] Right and I'm like what is going what is this and I don't shit going on San Francisco my brother had gone off and was like
[00:49:00] Working at the Olympics or something so he had left San Francisco and I had this like drunk as roommate
[00:49:06] And I packed my shit up and quit my job and then moved down to Southern California and then started kind of fresh a little
[00:49:14] A little focus but not focus to
[00:49:16] You know and then that's
[00:49:18] It was a long road you know a lot of couches then it was just couches then I didn't have another job
[00:49:23] So wait, so then you you said I missed it you moved to San Diego or you moved to LA I moved to Orange County to Orange County. Yeah, the surf industry in there
[00:49:32] Yeah, it was a weird I mean for the
[00:49:36] The variety of songs I write which many of them are quite dark or at least emotional visceral in a way
[00:49:44] That the surf industry I thought was odd kind of placed up to pick it up and pick up you know
[00:49:50] Go like oh yeah, this is you know
[00:49:53] This might make you cry. Let's put that in the surf film, you know
[00:49:58] It was it was an odd place to start I thought at least to get what you was it that you moved down here
[00:50:03] 2002. Oh, okay. What year did shelter come out
[00:50:08] Probably around then okay, I bet it's that same time it was pretty all the way after after I that happened
[00:50:16] I was like oh shit. I didn't just nothing was happening and I'd been in San Francisco for four years nothing was going to happen in San Francisco
[00:50:22] You know, I wasn't I was idle I was too idle and I needed something to push myself
[00:50:29] And so I need to do the make a change so you get down here then then what's the next step now?
[00:50:34] You're not not waiting cables anymore are you somehow getting by and hardly though. I mean like
[00:50:39] Playing every other Wednesday at the sushi bar and C.O.B.H. and playing in the corner this bar
[00:50:47] B.Q. restaurant in San Ana and just like take jar out tip jar making you know
[00:50:54] Between 50 and 300 bucks a pop and sleeping on people's couches
[00:50:59] State of my buddy's house for like maybe a year and a half in their guest room. That's a buddy
[00:51:03] Super my main is a beautiful man. It's got Mars
[00:51:06] Yeah, I'm grateful for that time because it really allowed me to
[00:51:12] I don't know. It allowed me to least craft what I was doing and at least get some
[00:51:20] Stage time performance time before anything was really happening
[00:51:26] And so how long were you in that situation before once the first time you went into a studio and recorded
[00:51:31] Not on a pioneer tape day. It was after so as after shelter came out
[00:51:41] Those same cassettes had gotten to the guy Bob Hurley who owns Hurley
[00:51:47] And he paid for me to make my first album and I actually made it with this a surfer up in
[00:51:53] Our in San Diego Peter King. I don't know
[00:51:55] He had a home studio at his house and I made my first album which was Hocked at like a rodeo
[00:52:03] Which I discontinued and re-did at some point in my career because I wasn't totally
[00:52:09] Loving how it turned out because I was super green and then I've been in studio
[00:52:13] Only knew the pioneer you know and it was more than a record button right echo Charles take
[00:52:19] Right, yeah, yeah, play in the court at the same time. That's a game record at the same time
[00:52:23] Okay, there was some complications
[00:52:26] What happened to that album like what happened that album that you fell like you lost control of it a little
[00:52:32] Did they go and overproduced or something or they like to
[00:52:35] Jim you know Jimmy on the freaking league guitar and it's Fender and here and start cranking out
[00:52:41] I mean I was raw and I liked kind of some of the rawness and it seemed to get a little to
[00:52:47] Produced in a way I would just like leave
[00:52:50] Leave town I would go somewhere and visit some people and then they would have musicians would come in and play on it
[00:52:56] And then they'd be like hey check this out and I'd be like oh, you know, it wasn't I wasn't at the command at all
[00:53:02] That's weird. It was out of my hands, which is normally which is that was the only time I really made that
[00:53:07] Mistake you know, but you live in your learn and it happens dance to look back and go like
[00:53:12] You know you discontinued and then you re-recorded it later
[00:53:15] Which seems like it was a moment in time and even if I was green I think the songs were still good
[00:53:21] Why I re-recorded it and discontinued that other one. I don't know why but you can find you try to find that one
[00:53:27] Like there's some like Japanese sites and stuff that will have that CD which I weren't that many of them because they were just like
[00:53:32] They're like five hundred bucks or something just stupid, you know for this well and you could probably get it on the internet
[00:53:39] Internet just in the web so that's the first album that comes out. Does it come out? Is that the right word?
[00:53:46] No, even come out or was it just like hey, we're making it. We're it doesn't come out. I sell it. It shows
[00:53:51] That's it, you know, we have this kind of fictitious label that Bob and this guy Paul Gomez make and it is
[00:54:00] Yeah nothing really happens. I'm still playing with the sushi bar
[00:54:03] Doing that for and I was in that state for quite some time. You know, like two years two years of sushi bar
[00:54:14] Sushi bar tip jar
[00:54:17] Then what what happened from there that got you away from the sushi bar the tip jar
[00:54:23] It was
[00:54:25] I met I think I moved up because I met my my wife and I moved up to
[00:54:33] Los Angeles and met some people got kind of a manager
[00:54:39] And we went in the studio and recorded my first EP
[00:54:43] This is just the white buffalo and it's yet. I think it's five six songs on that
[00:54:49] Which was super stripped down now?
[00:54:51] Now, was this who's who's paying for this?
[00:54:56] Who is running? Who bought you studio time?
[00:54:59] This was a
[00:55:01] My manager at the time was managing
[00:55:04] Donovan Frankenrider
[00:55:07] And I so I would open up for him. I started opening up for him and I would get some exposure doing that
[00:55:13] And met the keyboard player this guy who actually played for the eels as well
[00:55:17] Rusty
[00:55:18] He went by cool G murder and he was kind of he had that steep whatever
[00:55:24] But he's like he's red head of that's big like ginger beard kind of like wispy
[00:55:30] You know, not a whole lot of hair and a column of self cool to use cool she was cool
[00:55:36] Cool G murder. It says if you look like if you had that EP and you looked on produce by it says produce my cool G murder
[00:55:43] Oh, I will check that out. So that so you record this thing
[00:55:51] We're are we still pre like internet
[00:55:54] Whatever MP3 situations. Yeah, we're still sales are still yeah, I don't know for digital
[00:56:03] Yeah, I don't know are we I don't know if those iTunes and that stuff had been
[00:56:06] I don't know either I don't think so because I think they date that EP on iTunes is something way later than it
[00:56:15] Actually was proud of you know, so so when that album comes out is it what happens this is freaking awesome
[00:56:22] Just no factor. I independently release it myself and it's just me selling it basically at
[00:56:28] Uh, shows and I think when the digital format comes up I get it up on there and I'm
[00:56:33] That's it nothing is happening. I ended up doing that for a couple so you're in that state still
[00:56:41] I mean, and it's still a couple albums and then I'd put a couple more albums out doing that in that state almost hand
[00:56:47] What at what point did you start to feel some forward moment?
[00:56:51] Like I was saying earlier man, I went and saw you at UCSD and like a little cafe and there's 15 people in there
[00:56:56] And I was actually like me my wife her friends our friends. We're all sitting there. Yeah, and everybody's I remember that and everyone's like sitting in the
[00:57:06] And I'm super stoked. I'm like this is so rad, you know, I'm like, yeah, I mean it's been just this super long haul of
[00:57:16] Not too many spikes. I mean later. I'm starting later. I mean it's not until I get
[00:57:21] Um
[00:57:23] You know probably start starting the actual TV licenses where stuff starts getting more serious
[00:57:30] That doesn't come until what year I
[00:57:34] Was still independent didn't have I had hogtied
[00:57:38] Revisited now under my belt was a full length album and two EPs and I didn't have a manager didn't have booking agent anything and my lawyer
[00:57:53] As the music supervisor for sons of anarchy to lunch and said hey, I got this guy
[00:57:59] You're right some murder songs and conflicted emotional songs
[00:58:03] You know that that and
[00:58:06] When you're in that state so you're in this state like there's got to be a point. There's got to be a thought that goes through your mind of
[00:58:14] All right, you know like this ain't gonna work. I got to I got to figure out how I got to feed my family
[00:58:21] I got to figure out how I'm gonna get a mortgage. I got to figure out how I'm gonna buy a house
[00:58:25] Was that font in your mind or was it a good when you get in by enough where you have it?
[00:58:30] I mean you obviously love playing live at least as far as I can tell you freaking love playing live
[00:58:36] Is that a good enough time we're like hey, this is a cool job right now, and I'm good with it
[00:58:41] It was very small means and and I we didn't need that money much money to survive really at that point
[00:58:50] I remember I got off
[00:58:53] Another surf movie I did
[00:58:55] This one from Jason Baffa called single thin yellow and I did a
[00:59:02] A little piece off that and that was the first time I've ever like wrote to picture one of the only times actually and I came up with that song and that idea
[00:59:10] And then I I re did it and recorded it on my first EP and create made it into it more of a song
[00:59:18] When before was just this thing they used that person that that piece
[00:59:22] Like Walmart called me for a commercial had a nowhere to I didn't have a publisher. They thought I was a publisher and
[00:59:30] Quoted me some money there. You give me I was like oh
[00:59:33] Chacha
[00:59:35] I was like oh, Mark I was like no, look yeah, what I'm
[00:59:38] And then and then I went that Walmart money saw
[00:59:42] But then I remember I was like oh, let me you know, I don't want to shoot myself in the foot. Let me pass it on to my manager at the time, right?
[00:59:48] It was pretty green hands up getting less money. So I had negotiated initially. That's because that's but still
[00:59:56] But it was more it was
[00:59:59] It was more money than I'd ever seen and it was like oh, okay, here's you know
[01:00:04] I could have lived off that that was more money than I'd made probably in the previous four years
[01:00:08] You know, I'm doing of doing the music so you are getting it's like it's like you're uh
[01:00:13] You know when you were a kid and you had some girlfriend and like she would break up with you, but she would string you along right
[01:00:21] You know that and people say don't string don't string people along. It's like you were getting strong along by
[01:00:27] I mean, they're a little carrot. Yeah, you know, another good. I made some good tips tonight
[01:00:32] I'm gonna get the big golf and Walmart. It's all like hockey.
[01:00:37] So then so that was from single thing yellow
[01:00:39] Which is a kick ass movie. They take this board and they send it around the world a bunch of different people surfer a bunch of different wild spots
[01:00:48] But this is still
[01:00:52] Still you're not you know able to just or are you able to just survive on on being a musician at this point?
[01:00:58] Yeah, and I was I had been for for a bit. I did
[01:01:02] Use my college degree for a little substitute teaching
[01:01:04] Which was hilarious. Oh, man. I'm a very spoken of heartbreaking at the same time. Why do you say that?
[01:01:11] You know
[01:01:14] Middle school kids are pretty dangerous. You know, I pretty confused and pissed and so I ended breaking up more fights than I was
[01:01:23] Teaching anybody anything or you know, I mean, I wasn't
[01:01:27] There's not much of a
[01:01:29] Lesson plan often left for the substitute teacher
[01:01:34] So you're sure movie or you're just trying to keep the kids safe
[01:01:38] You're gonna say don't get don't get thrown out the window. It's the lesson plan, right?
[01:01:43] So but I didn't do that that that long or very very
[01:01:47] Very often
[01:01:49] When you're in these when you're in this period of your life, I mean, the songs that you write to music that you write the lyrics that you write
[01:01:56] I'm
[01:01:59] I'm projecting my thoughts onto this, but you know, when you're sitting and working in a dive bar somewhere playing a gig and you look over in the corner and you see this character
[01:02:09] Is does that develop into hey, you know, I know what that guy's thinking or I'm thinking about what that person's life was like that.
[01:02:16] Is it good that you went through this time period of of where you were kind of
[01:02:20] You're struggling through and making things happen, did you?
[01:02:25] Does that incorporate into your, do things you think about?
[01:02:29] I mean, I honestly think the way that I did it
[01:02:33] Was beneficial to me as a songwriter as an artist for this long of a time
[01:02:38] That if I would have had somebody come in and go like, hey, wow, this guy's you can sing and he writes he's pretty good songs
[01:02:44] But like we can, why don't we develop this guy into something else and do a country store or something else
[01:02:47] And instead I was able to be 100% true to the songs that I write that artists that I wanted to be
[01:02:55] And never had to do anything that I didn't want to do
[01:02:59] It always my vision and always 100% from me, which is
[01:03:03] Super rare these days, especially I mean there's like, you know, the song on the radio you got 15 people wrote it, you know, it's like
[01:03:10] It's kind of unheard of and but I think that this super long haul that it's taken me and even now I'm still a
[01:03:18] Little secret, you know, it's not like I'm a superstar her people know I'm like walk down the street
[01:03:23] It's like rare for me to get noticed, you know, I'm always kind of put off by somebody going like, hey, are you, are you the
[01:03:32] Oh, yeah, I am, I'll be like, oh shit, you know, I love people that really like me really like me
[01:03:36] But most people don't know about me, you know, which I'm kind of, it's a sweet spot
[01:03:41] Kind of for me, I mean I'm not making millions of dollars, but I'm doing okay, I can survive and I'm provide
[01:03:48] But I'm not
[01:03:52] You know, I don't I can still be me do what I want to do and not be, you know, afraid to go out and public it all
[01:04:00] That's that's good
[01:04:02] Does
[01:04:04] So you were just getting to the point where I cut you off and redirected the story and it totally different direction because that was really cool
[01:04:12] But you're talking about
[01:04:15] You're so you got this manager guy and he knows
[01:04:22] The musician director from Sons of Anarchy
[01:04:25] That was actually post so I had my first guy and I first manager, he's actually my second manager
[01:04:32] Who was managing down of in Frank or Adder and I ended up touring with him for probably a year and a half when I was with him
[01:04:39] It went to Japan when all over the world and this was when he was he peaked when dawn of him is kind of peaking and
[01:04:46] When you just live in the dream
[01:04:49] I mean let me travel on the bus, I was like, you know, we weren't in the sushi bar anymore, you know, they'll do it
[01:04:53] Bro
[01:04:55] So you just to see the world when you're seeing the world and you get perspectives and different
[01:04:59] You know, you over the open-chair mind traveling when I was in the sealed teams I was on deployment when I would be on deployment
[01:05:06] I would know in my mind like every day
[01:05:09] I would know that this was the best you know, I was kind of just loving life you know living
[01:05:16] You don't people always say living in the dream I was living the dream I was actually doing exactly what I always dreamed of doing from my whole life
[01:05:25] What's amazing
[01:05:27] Seems like that's what would be you know you be on tour
[01:05:30] It was I just had low I didn't have and I maybe that's my been my outlook
[01:05:35] A lot of the time to kind of have low expectations and then not be really that disappointed
[01:05:39] And even when I'm not getting accolades or I'm not getting you know playing huge rooms or or but making enough money to be okay and feel pretty okay about what I'm doing and still being true to myself
[01:05:53] It was enough and it's always kind of been enough for me
[01:05:57] Okay, so you get a pretty good launch you get a taste of the road
[01:06:01] Right?
[01:06:02] Get a taste of the road bro you're there
[01:06:05] And and then did that when you get done touring with that tour what's the next step?
[01:06:14] You know we started I know we were at we were at that moment I'm probably
[01:06:22] The next big step is getting the sons of anarchy still for sure that that that put me in a place
[01:06:29] Where now I could go well after the show really I was like the third season I think they started using my stuff and how I'm so so I was you I cut once again
[01:06:40] I just cut you offering them we instead hey, let's take a sip
[01:06:43] So how did that come about that that you ended up on sons of anarchy?
[01:06:46] No, so as my lawyer Steve Sessa who I still have today
[01:06:50] Invited the music super badge of the lunch and said listen I have this guy's an unsight artist doesn't have any management does anything
[01:06:56] But son of son albums I think he was a big fan of the show of sons of anarchy and he's like you know the conflict in these you know it's like this show is basically these
[01:07:07] Emotional men doing kind of terrible shit
[01:07:12] You know and I have a lot of that kind of conflict and some of my songs too that it's something that's got it that feels like kind of a badass but got he's maybe kind of a sweetheart
[01:07:20] I think or you feel for this guy who's really it's a murder song, you know, but you're he's kind of the hero though at the same time
[01:07:27] So it's this conflict to him
[01:07:30] Was perfect for that show and then
[01:07:34] He gave him gave my whole catalog basically and then and not that long at all they were like okay here
[01:07:41] We're gonna use this in the next and you know in three episodes or something and
[01:07:44] And but that was a slow thing as well, you know that was they'd use us one song and then these and other song, but then they ended up using
[01:07:53] I think seven or eight of my own songs that I they were my own compositions that were already out there
[01:07:59] And then they had become in sing on stuff so stuff that they would create that was part of the soundtrack and just how they used music in that show
[01:08:07] I don't know if you watched it, but it was very we do these montages at the end
[01:08:10] That would be the song would be part of the story and it would just be these montages visuals and they would play the song at full length at full volume
[01:08:22] And it would be like another character and then I think people started recognizing my voice and saying
[01:08:28] What does this make me should go deeper you know into this and at that point we had I hadn't been to Europe on my own as an artist
[01:08:35] I don't the open up for people and you don't really know what kind of
[01:08:40] Lengues you have in places you don't know when you don't have any history in places and if you just open up for somebody you don't really have history is really you're just playing for their people
[01:08:49] So then
[01:08:51] Shit's going better and getting better and we go how we gotta go we gotta check out Europe. I don't know what's happening. You know starting to play bigger rooms all over the country and
[01:09:01] Nobody old
[01:09:03] No, no clubs who want us they never heard of us, you know, no, and we were like well least we've you know we got a festival somewhere
[01:09:10] So we're like okay, we're gonna play this festival in Spain or something so but we gotta try to play in London and just see what tickets are like see what happens
[01:09:17] So we play this like a little tiny room. We're gonna play like a 200 cap room that sells out like an hour
[01:09:21] They're like oh shit. Well, they're like what's going on and then they like well let's bump up the room and then they bump it up to like 700 capacity
[01:09:27] Which was bigger than I'm playing most of the places in the States and then that sells out another hour day and then they're like wow it's going on and then that
[01:09:35] So we just went and we played a couple shows in Europe and then realized like okay, this is a viable market
[01:09:41] Like we can make some money over here and then we have a fan base and I think almost due to the popularity that show
[01:09:48] You know at that point I sign with a label
[01:09:51] You know small kind of boutique label which basically was
[01:09:55] These two guys that that were producers and engineers who produced an engineered
[01:10:01] Four albums
[01:10:03] I just just have left now. I'm on with it different. What made you decide to go? Why did you need you've been doing it yourself?
[01:10:10] Why made you make the transition it was not
[01:10:12] I didn't I never had any even though there wasn't a much of a machine behind those other albums and still now not really
[01:10:25] I just wanted to get in the game
[01:10:27] You know what I mean? I'd never been in the game
[01:10:29] You know and I was just like I'm just an island. I'm still kind of an island, but then I was like I wasn't in the game
[01:10:36] You know and they're like I think somebody was just like do you get the game?
[01:10:39] What are you doing? Like you know on the labels you know, it wasn't like I had
[01:10:44] That know how or any of the anything when I'm independently releasing things
[01:10:47] No, but it wasn't like it was fucking six months set up
[01:10:50] To be like alright the albums gonna come out may you know 20th then we're gonna be promoting this thing for no
[01:10:56] It was when it was done. What's a marketing plan looking at the front next album there was nothing
[01:11:00] I would just go up. It would just put it up. It would be I finished something and then I would just put it up
[01:11:05] You know digitally and and make CDs so then you sign with these guys. Is that the right terminology?
[01:11:12] Yeah, yeah, and we did like a three album four album deal with them
[01:11:19] Are you the
[01:11:22] Is this all your decision making you're the guy?
[01:11:27] Yeah, I end up getting my manager
[01:11:29] Right when I was signing I was looking for somebody else. I was like in between that. I think I'd have like three different managers who were all
[01:11:38] I don't know if they had like they were
[01:11:41] I just did but they weren't as professional or as right for me. I'll just say that they weren't if they weren't maybe right for me to try to get me to the another plateau
[01:11:52] And now I got the Jeff Farney who's great and and smart and political and
[01:12:00] Also though very in my corners far still allowing me to
[01:12:06] Have my vision and do what I want to do musically
[01:12:11] So right right before that
[01:12:14] We do the deal I sign with him as well. All right. I bring him on as my manager
[01:12:18] Mm-hmm, then with him ever since and then you that's somehow your officially in the game now your son out places in Europe
[01:12:25] But what does it look back when you get back to the States because it's weird. You know, it's weird how that can happen and I got some other friends and better musicians and like overseas
[01:12:34] They're freaking massive and back here. There's just not not action. I mean, it's it's crazy and I don't even know
[01:12:41] Some markets. I mean, we've never been to South America. Like if you look on my comments
[01:12:44] You look on any YouTube thing I have every other comment has come to Brazil or something Brazil, but there we've never been to Brazil. It's far
[01:12:52] So it's got you right. I don't know when we'll get there. I want to get there
[01:12:58] You know, but we're doing better. It's a slow build. We never go down
[01:13:04] You know, which I appreciate but still in places like the South we haven't had that much touring history
[01:13:09] It probably done like two or three tours there and we're still building that it is it weird because
[01:13:17] How do you categorize your music? That's part of the issue and that's an issue with labels some of the time too because they don't understand it
[01:13:27] It doesn't fit in an email category, you know, even you have this Americana idea now, but it doesn't it's not
[01:13:33] Air quotes
[01:13:35] I don't know, it just it doesn't seem I don't know it feels like I don't belong in that genre either
[01:13:45] I mean part of it does part of it's kind of this country. There's country elements. There's rock elements. There's some more aggressive more punk stuff. There's
[01:13:51] folk stuff. There's ballads. There's you know, it's it belongs in anything. It's organic. Yeah, and it comes from mostly comes from three guys playing or you know, if we put some other stuff on albums
[01:14:05] But it's it's
[01:14:08] We're the most stripped down band that
[01:14:12] You'll ever see really. I mean, other than if it's one guy playing guitar, I mean, it's three guys with no effects. Yeah, there's no vocal effects. There's no effects
[01:14:19] I'm like a tar there's no there's no nothing. It's three guys
[01:14:23] So that's an issue because you can't say oh, there's this you know, this other band that kind of fits in the white buffalo category and there we can play with these four other bands
[01:14:33] We can do a festival or whatever because where do you really fit
[01:14:37] At the same time though, but you can fit in all other little categories too. There's benefits to that too because I can play a rock festival. Yeah, I can play a country festival, you know,
[01:14:46] You know, yeah, because you're kind of like your own
[01:14:50] You know, your own little foot your own little genre. Yeah, I never hopefully that I have my own sound kind of you know, which is not to mention I think you're the only person that writes murder songs
[01:15:01] Right, or at least once you could dance.
[01:15:04] I'm a singer song. I guess that's right. I've got some leaving out all my death metal brothers out there who are right 100% murder songs
[01:15:10] You'll be only one out there doing acoustic folk
[01:15:12] Folk murder songs even though have you ever heard
[01:15:16] But what is it called Viking folk metal have you ever heard that Viking folk metal? Yes, yes, now they play like traditional Viking instruments
[01:15:25] But they're playing metal really yes, I mean that's there's another guy people come from like Viking blood
[01:15:33] Maybe that's my job
[01:15:35] At least you can slide in there you can maybe do some some Viking folk metal what do they call festivals?
[01:15:44] I mean if they exist
[01:15:46] Probably somewhere in Scandinavia, right?
[01:15:49] So when you when you when you're
[01:15:54] Do do the where the songs come from
[01:15:57] Like that the majority of them if not all of them come from just silence from nowhere
[01:16:02] You know a lot of them will be gibberish or something they just come in out of being quiet and they often
[01:16:12] I will say something sing something and
[01:16:16] I will recognize what the important part is or the piece of it that that has some validity or worth
[01:16:23] And expand on that
[01:16:25] One little idea most of the time some of the time I'll sing something that just I don't even know where I came from you know
[01:16:30] It's I can sing a whole verse and of course not not with not with an idea that I'm gonna write a song about this
[01:16:37] I don't know what they're about initially and then I craft them into things
[01:16:42] That hopefully have some kind of emotional response
[01:16:46] So there's some level of you being on the lookout for a little
[01:16:51] Nugget of goodness that you can grab onto and I plant and I just feel lucky like I feel like they're lucky
[01:16:57] Little diamonds that come out of fucking the ether
[01:17:00] You know what I mean and I think my gift is recognizing what those little lucky moments are to go like all of them
[01:17:07] Grab that that's a good idea, you know, and I do I I know that I can craft something off a one very small idea to realize how I can turn that into a whole concept or a whole song pretty quick
[01:17:18] But yeah, I don't know I wish I had better stories about it. I was talking to Robert O'Kee and did a podcast with him and he was like, what tell me what
[01:17:29] Where were you at? What was this you know what seems to be racial behind this? I'm like
[01:17:33] There's no inspiration. It's just imagined
[01:17:37] You know, it's like imagination is that the inspiration
[01:17:41] Yeah, but it's not in my head. I'm not like it's not there's no
[01:17:44] I'm pretty thought about it rarely. It's born in your head. Yeah, just comes from your head. Yeah, that's like deep
[01:17:53] So I was named loose major in college all that you know, so what you're saying right now
[01:17:59] What you're saying right now, I'm gonna put you on the spot
[01:18:02] What you're saying right now is there was these people and there was all there's all this controversy
[01:18:06] I'm not even going to remember that well because I really don't remember that much of college
[01:18:08] But there would be people that would say you know, I wrote this poem just it just I just wrote it
[01:18:16] And I'm talking like classical like real famous literature people. Oh the word is at this person just wrote this just came out
[01:18:24] And it's like they didn't have to work for it. That's kind of what you're doing. You're just like, hey, I'm really over here just for you
[01:18:31] Just develop it nuggets of gold
[01:18:33] I'm rarely doing that they're really that easy. Okay, inception of them the beginnings of them are that easy
[01:18:42] But some of the time it's a very small little piece of something and it's not very rarely sometimes
[01:18:49] I had sat down in my in my lifetime and and just something spilled out and then you know, they're only shit there
[01:18:54] It is like love song number one is one kind of like that. There was it off my first EP that just kind of spilled out and then I was like, well, this
[01:19:00] I was like, well, this like what was on it? What is on about you know, there's even a moment in the song where I'm still like, what is that even about it?
[01:19:08] And
[01:19:11] And just left it in kind of you know, now I edit more stuff now, you know, and make every word perfect
[01:19:18] Our child's perfect. It's like feel like I can make it, you know, but
[01:19:21] And then what's the deal on you know, what are you oh, in other words, are you like, hey, I better get another album out and another, you know, because you just you just put out your latest album, what?
[01:19:35] If you want to go? Yeah April, April 17th April 17th so now
[01:19:41] Do you start feeling the pressure in your head of I need to do more because I need to cut another album. Do you start feeling pressure in your head that you got ideas and then that need to get out?
[01:19:48] Do you not even think about it? I don't even think about it. I don't like I I
[01:19:54] I'll write here in there and we'll be a little snippets in my phone, but I don't really think about it. Even this last record
[01:20:01] Who I did with shooter Jannings produced it
[01:20:06] But I didn't have I didn't think I had hardly any songs going into talking with him and meeting with him and
[01:20:12] And the night before we went out drinking like the first time and we didn't even talk about working together really just talking about life and
[01:20:20] Just get drunk we got drunk right where do we get drunk out where do we get drunk out or where do we get drunk
[01:20:28] For all the room on like Hollywood what I mean brandably no no, it was set up it was like a blind date between our
[01:20:35] God or set us up thinking that it this might be a match made in heaven, but not when it's I went in the first time to meet him to kind of show
[01:20:43] What I've been working on or something you know to develop some songs and I was like, I don't have shit. I feel like I'm shit. I woke up
[01:20:50] the night before and
[01:20:55] How did an idea saying it into my phone and
[01:20:58] Was like okay, well, at least I can show them that tomorrow and then we'll work on that all day
[01:21:03] I can see what happens
[01:21:05] Well, I picked that to him I sang a term
[01:21:08] I think it was kind of the idea it was actually quite realized but it's like my son was like sleeping
[01:21:12] I had this little tiny studio fucking place where sleeping and my son sleeping on the
[01:21:18] Like I think make out what I'm saying, but I'm trying to be quiet
[01:21:22] That's not way can and I show him this thing the next day and then I sing it and we've worked it out in like 20 minutes
[01:21:28] And then I already have it kind of realized and he's like well, well, so you have I was like, oh, I have
[01:21:33] Oh, this and he's like, well, that's amazing explore that explore that
[01:21:36] There were all those you have and I was like, oh, how about this and he's like, that's yeah do that like explore that
[01:21:41] And I would just and then we just went down and I was like, okay, and then after that little meeting
[01:21:45] I went on just a bit like a I go on little writing
[01:21:49] Tears little benders and then I just basically wrote the whole album in about a week
[01:21:54] A week and a half and before I was like, you know, I have a little snippets that are coming in
[01:22:00] You know, but then to realize and then finish them really fast sometimes sometimes you know, it's like added
[01:22:08] Sometimes it's out of just inspiration and desperation
[01:22:12] So the little pressure can maybe squeeze something out of you have you ever been in a point where you were feeling pressure
[01:22:18] But just nothing was coming out I had another album
[01:22:21] Love in the death of damn nation
[01:22:26] I remember I used to with the old producers I would go and I would sing I would give and have all these ideas
[01:22:30] And I would go in and then we would like, okay, let's explore that one let's do that work on that one
[01:22:35] And a lot of time it would be like everyone but I have like 20 ideas, 25 ideas or something like that
[01:22:40] And for that album I had like
[01:22:43] It was about time to record and I had maybe six ideas that I played in there I'll come on all of them
[01:22:48] You know and then I was like fuck it let's just start Wednesday
[01:22:53] I'm like what are we gonna do Wednesday? I was like I'll be ready Wednesday
[01:22:57] You'd be ready Wednesday
[01:22:59] And then we just did that one like that but that was completely out of desperation and then hit a lucky
[01:23:04] Perlific time
[01:23:07] Little lucky streak here from great album
[01:23:11] How did you link up with with Matt and Christopher
[01:23:16] So Matt has been drumming
[01:23:19] Then he's a freaking animal by the way
[01:23:22] He's a freaking animal
[01:23:24] I mean as far as I don't think I would be the performer
[01:23:28] I am today without Matt
[01:23:30] No you guys you guys get you guys look at each other and you guys just get go off
[01:23:34] It's freaking savage. It's awesome. I mean especially for like a acoustic trio who do you think wouldn't be terribly aggressive
[01:23:40] You know
[01:23:41] And he's just sticks a fly and break freaking and shards of wood or you know, getting pulled out of two to two minutes
[01:23:50] At some point I realized that you called him the machine right and then I would every shot go to and I'd be like machine
[01:23:57] I would get all crazy but and then like the last couple times I've gone other people were yelling and I was kind of disappointed
[01:24:04] I kind of felt like all that
[01:24:05] I don't know I mean I just can't I was just going to yeah because he just goes nuts so I'm sorry. How did you link up with him?
[01:24:12] That was actually the first album I did for the Hurley guy hog tied
[01:24:16] Like a rodeo. I've had Matt since then. No way he wasn't on that album
[01:24:21] But there was a guy Tommy Andrews who's from San Diego as well who was my base player for the first ten years of my career
[01:24:27] Played guitar on that album and new
[01:24:31] Matt and this guy Russell Hayden
[01:24:35] We played banjo in Dobro like the most evil
[01:24:38] I can banjo you ever you heard and uh, but it was perfect for his creepy evil banjo
[01:24:44] I mean like where he wouldn't what he would like just like live him and now he in like to know how he brows and he'd be like like like an awesome banjo
[01:24:52] But anyways, but I met Matt through this guy Tommy Andrews and we all did it. It was the first time I ever felt
[01:24:59] But for that I'd only played by myself
[01:25:02] Yeah, really never played never performed even when I'm in the corner of any place was always by myself
[01:25:06] And that was the first time I was like whoa, this is what it feels like to really feel and feed off of other people's energy and playing
[01:25:14] And
[01:25:15] Matt's played with me ever since and Christopher has spent with us for maybe Matt and Christopher are like best buddies
[01:25:22] And
[01:25:23] Huffie's not even a wasn't even a bass player. He's a producer and engineer, so he played everything, right?
[01:25:30] It's one of those guys. Yeah, not he's a really good bass player now. Yeah, um, what's when
[01:25:37] Look, I try and explain this to people you got it get the albums for sure and then you got to go see you got to go see the live shows it's freaking insane
[01:25:45] I think yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, we're just go fucking go a shit. I mean, we don't know and I just think it's very visceral and the way that we approach
[01:25:56] Like it's like the last show of our lives, you know, we do that every night and I don't know any other way to do it, you know, and Matt doesn't
[01:26:03] Christopher, we're just like, you know, a few wild animals up there.
[01:26:08] You know, is it, do you feel it? Do you feel frustration that you, I mean, are you getting it? Do you, you don't have a live album?
[01:26:20] No, we don't. Are you gonna do that? Do you think it would get it done? Do you think it'd be able to capture it?
[01:26:26] I think so. I think we could. I mean, the hardest part is really acoustic guitar live is a difficult thing to kind of capture that make that sound like an acoustic guitar
[01:26:35] But yeah, I think we could capture it live. We people ask that all the time because it is such a different animal. I mean, I think
[01:26:43] I mean, it's a high compliment when people are like, oh, it's better than the albums, you know, it's it's
[01:26:49] I think it's more of an experience. I mean, to get people during parts of the show that
[01:26:55] You know, the people want to fight during this time people are crying, you know, and you'll see right you see like a military guy in a
[01:27:03] Fucking hippie in there and you know, and some guy from some other completely different background
[01:27:09] But somehow they found this secret band, you know, it's like, this is our band. This is our band
[01:27:17] But oh, it's okay. It's man, too, but that's okay. We're in this together.
[01:27:20] Bikers hippies surfers. I mean, it's like, let's all, let's all go get some, right? That's freaking, yeah, it's
[01:27:27] It's awesome. If people get a chance to see that it's like, you got to go check it out.
[01:27:36] Dude, what's the madador about the madador?
[01:27:41] Yeah, madador was, that was actually the first song that he used on sons of anarchy
[01:27:45] That, but it was off of my first EP. It was already recorded.
[01:27:49] Madador, I wanted to do a song that you couldn't tell if it was a man
[01:27:54] killing people or a man killing or madador
[01:28:00] And I just like that kind of loose
[01:28:09] A thing where you can't tell really
[01:28:13] And I want to leave it up to the listener where they decide is this a man killing people in the light of day
[01:28:18] In public and put on a people or is this the, or is he talking about a bullfighter?
[01:28:24] Yeah, you know, that's kind of a wild concept. Kind of, and I don't know where that right?
[01:28:29] How about carnage? Carnage is another dark one.
[01:28:33] That one, my idea was
[01:28:37] Some kind of warfare comes to where you live, some kind of either, either it's a new killer viral or something
[01:28:44] And you have to take your family and go hide down on the basement
[01:28:48] And it's kind of a narrative so it starts and we all just go hide down on the basement
[01:28:53] And I feel like the main character is kind of the father figure
[01:28:58] And then you don't know what's happening outside
[01:29:02] Everyone was just hiding and it just gets darker and darker
[01:29:06] And people start kind of losing their minds
[01:29:08] The madman
[01:29:13] Madman just
[01:29:15] You're going to all murder songs
[01:29:17] I just thought to myself I'm like well, that's all murder songs
[01:29:20] And like you said earlier, you've got the sweetest songs, you've got the most romantic songs
[01:29:25] And you've definitely provided some very nice evenings for me and my wife to hang out and have a very pleasant time
[01:29:32] You've also provided me with nice soundtracks for the darkness
[01:29:36] Yeah, I mean I love that I mean the thing is I don't know why people don't dive into the fucking dark side of the pool
[01:29:42] You know it's like there's so much jacco podcast
[01:29:45] But there's so much you know in those shadowy parts like movies like that and stuff like that
[01:29:51] That's a powerful primal thing that I think is cool that that should be explored
[01:29:57] I think I'm lucky that I can sing in the way I can that I can be tender at some moments when I
[01:30:01] I love song or I have something that needs to be and then on the other side of the hand
[01:30:07] To be more aggressive and loud and howling
[01:30:10] But the other madman's another just serial killer kind of murder song
[01:30:16] It's just like you can't he's undeniably so you just all powerful and he's coming after you
[01:30:22] It's just scary
[01:30:23] You know I never I never have thought about the fact that you write murder songs before
[01:30:32] Didn't till you said it today. I was like, oh, yeah, that's that's the whole thing. There's a bunch of those murder songs
[01:30:37] Every album at least as at least one. Yeah, I mean I'm looking at my listen like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's that's oh yeah, oh, Darwin. What have I done? Oh, yeah, that's that's absolute free
[01:30:46] That one's fucking twisted though. That one's that one's about a man who thinks
[01:30:51] I don't know I come up with this bullshit, but like now how who thinks in order to get the affection of his woman and that he starts killing people and collecting
[01:31:03] Basically collecting these lives and these killing these people as like a sign of like the ultimate gift to give to this woman kind of in his mind thinking that she's going he's going to win his her affection due to
[01:31:15] Whatever the solution
[01:31:18] How about the pilot
[01:31:22] The pilot feels like I love this song
[01:31:26] The high women by Jimmy Webb. Yeah, and it wasn't it wasn't off that something, but it's it's that one's just kind of just about kicking ass kind of like
[01:31:37] Checking ass and taking names
[01:31:39] That part yeah, that's part of the pilot. I mean that one I like how it starts you know you start with the pilot and basically it's kind of just sets of sets of table for just a pilot and then it goes
[01:31:50] Fire pilot and it goes outlaw and then it's just like
[01:31:53] What is it to one? Yeah kicking ass taking a go down to town killing dreams. Yes
[01:31:56] Yes, man, you know you did the album with the Joey White theme throughout it and that's so that's that's like a what is it a rock opera? What is it is it a concept out? My guess is what we call it
[01:32:12] We've got this whole story this whole thread of
[01:32:14] Of a couple yeah, right and you know, it sounds like they meet when they're young. You got some freaking great lines man just great great stuff
[01:32:27] What what made you decide to go I am going concept album. I've always wanted to. I mean I always look at my songs as little movies little mini movies and the idea of building a whole narrative
[01:32:38] Around those linking those also it's a linear thing which I don't even know most concepts albums are seen really loose like even if you listen to darks out of moon or something that's not like you jump from one thing to another
[01:32:53] You know and that's this guy's whole road
[01:32:56] I did I don't know I've always been fascinated by war and soldiers and people going off the war and then coming back and all this thing and it's so I had some songs already and I was like I want to do a concept album and then I said
[01:33:12] Oh, and I do it now and I thought oh I could put this song here or this kind of start changing names put this song over here and then build this whole arc of this guy's lifetime. You know it's basically a love story, I think of the love story, but it's
[01:33:26] You know, it's a white buffalo kind of way right in a murder. It's sort of a dark a dark thing so they start off. They meet each other. They fall in love, but it's kind of this forbidden love and so they have to go leave the small town there from and he finds out pretty quickly that he cannot provide first family. So he joins the military goes off to war kills feels like kind of a killing machine and then comes back
[01:33:52] still kind of blood thirsting and not assimilating kills again at home and then it's got excuse back into a love story kind of release this his road to redemption kind of
[01:34:07] And the one thing is the power of love with the power of his woman is what makes him feel human or halfway human again and it basically goes the whole arc to his life at the end he's he's going to die and he's kind of questioning God and wondering
[01:34:25] If they're all this bad shit, I've done it in my life like my in there are you go up there you know just still kind of confusing and conflicted but trying to figure out
[01:34:37] Man freaking all all just great stuff man. I wherever you're getting it from I hope those little magic nuggets that go into your brain help or enter your brain or are produced in your brain. I hope they just freaking keep on coming man
[01:34:53] Hey did your son play lead guitar for you one time at house of blues. I did many times. Okay, I mean I'm not my oldest son Tanner who is we've tried to add a fourth guy sometimes, you know, we've always liked this power trio kind of thing or the acoustic guitars ridiculous really but
[01:35:12] But we would try to add a fourth guy, but it always felt like it kind of took away from I mean all we were kind of dynamics, you know, so we get really big and we're really quiet we get really big and with three that seems to work really well and you add another thing but Tanner is
[01:35:28] When he's at his on his game and at his best has been maybe my favorite fourth kind of verb during it. He's an animal right on what so what's up next? What's the future hold?
[01:35:42] That's a weird time. I mean, you know, it's like I had an album come out during this you know, COVID and the pandemic and and touring stopped we had I mean a shit let us shows you know shows going
[01:35:56] All of 2020 and beyond, you know, we were going to go all the way around the world all over the world, you know, at least places that we'd have some history and it's just that's just I'll stop that I'll dried up and so there's nothing
[01:36:11] That's all being postponed to hopefully when we do it, I mean our first tour that we were going to do in April that's going to be a whole year. We're going to go back to Europe in April and then hopefully stuff will start opening up and I don't know really the future is is
[01:36:27] Unknown the year to stay at least, but yeah, I mean I'm going to continue I was really proud of this this you know recent piece of work that I did, which almost was going to start out as a concept as well.
[01:36:39] What was the concept going to be this one was one time we were touring traveling around the eastern seaboard and I keep seeing these these rooftop decks up on top of these kind of Victorian houses and I'm like what are those you know and and the drummer was like oh those are called widows walks and those are the wives
[01:36:59] We're significant others of captains and what are efficient in wailers or stuff we you know they would their husbands would leave and go do their jobs but not return for many months or many weeks and the wives would go up kind of scouting looking longing for their husbands to come home and I just thought like oh that's a very you got it it's all right there right I mean you have the romance you have the drama you have the
[01:37:27] The see the power you know and
[01:37:32] Just the story was already there I was like us going to be easy and I started writing some of those which is a song called widows walk
[01:37:40] There's one the one the sick and more that made the album there's a couple that are still on there but then I had these other songs I was like because confining
[01:37:47] You know if you're like especially when I think of a concept album as a narrative to be like oh whether this song about the fires and California in 2018 or there this song about that wouldn't really fit in the construct of that
[01:38:02] So I kind of abandon the idea without
[01:38:05] Not entirely kind of some of the songs made it and then inadvertently other songs would have other
[01:38:12] Angles angles and concepts and water and
[01:38:18] Longing and lost loves and all kinds of stuff that ended up kind of getting into there and being part of the writing but way blu sir
[01:38:27] You know
[01:38:28] Well to freaking it's another another great album and I always talk about there's there's not too many bands in my opinion that can do five awesome albums in a row
[01:38:39] Like black Sabbath they did it Zeppelin they did it
[01:38:46] Metallica close but they did it right there's not too many bands that can do five awesome albums in row and part of it
[01:38:52] I think what you said earlier, you know you were at this level where you know if if you would have done that first demo and got picked up by whatever big record company
[01:39:02] And had a big bus and all this nice stuff and
[01:39:05] You probably didn't we probably wouldn't even squeeze out even two more good albums, but man you were there and and you're knocking out every album that you
[01:39:12] I don't know what number you're on right now, but it's it's more than five and you're still freaking putting out awesome work
[01:39:18] And I don't know what the future holds, but I do know this when you're back on the road
[01:39:22] We will be there. Well, thank you kindly you got you any last thoughts man. No, I just appreciate you. I appreciate you. You know
[01:39:30] I appreciate that I'm a part of so many people's lives, you know often the than terrible parts of their lives that that I get people coming up to me
[01:39:40] Saying how I help them through this moment at the force or or being in the military or death of somebody super close to them
[01:39:50] And I'm proud to be that, you know, for a while it's odd because I'm actually not that serious of a dude
[01:39:57] You know, I'm pretty like if you went drinking with me like that guy really you know
[01:40:04] But there's like a jackland hide thing right kind of is I've been my do these silly episodes these things called in the garage
[01:40:13] Yeah, so I do it's just me and my garage and I'd make some stupid entrance where I'm spitting and twirling or something and then
[01:40:19] I kind of bullshit for two three five minutes about nothing. I'm just kind of rambling and then
[01:40:27] But it's kind of comedic and then then I just go into something probably dark and heavy some song
[01:40:32] But I have this in my catalog and I'll play a song and then that's it, but it is kind of a duality of my persona or my not my persona just who I am
[01:40:40] But there's but it's just like everything I suppose there's you know laughter and there's love and there's you know different sides of the coin and there's the light in the dark and so
[01:40:51] I have that explorer that makes part of that in music as well
[01:40:56] Well, thanks for taking us on the road with you down that down that path
[01:41:01] Like I said look, I know I'm coming out dark because that's sort of that sort of where I tend to go
[01:41:06] But man there's you know a bunch of beautiful songs on there
[01:41:08] The best music for
[01:41:12] You can apply it to just about every part of your life
[01:41:16] So thanks for coming on man, pretty good awesome. Thank you for having me. You think maybe take it out with one mojama
[01:41:23] Shit, you got it something off the new album. Yeah, this is something about this one's called the history
[01:41:28] Get some
[01:41:58] Well
[01:42:28] That's a time
[01:42:30] Probably
[01:42:33] So here and I, I'm nothing more
[01:42:37] Ooh, ooh, ooh
[01:42:39] Something we'll let up be for him
[01:42:43] No history, no history
[01:43:05] Memories they're congratulating
[01:43:09] When the passes are waste to you alive, you can't rewind
[01:43:15] Leave it all behind, what if more than never comes?
[01:43:21] Build your tomorrow rules out of tape, they're all gonna go
[01:43:27] When nobody knows, but I feel in the future
[01:43:35] It becomes, they're the ones we love for every time
[01:43:45] You can't hold a hands of time
[01:43:51] So here and I, I'm nothing more
[01:43:55] Ooh, ooh, ooh
[01:43:57] Something we'll let up be for him
[01:44:01] No history, no history
[01:44:07] Well you can't hold a hands of time
[01:44:13] So here and I, I'm nothing more
[01:44:21] Ooh, ooh, ooh
[01:44:23] Something we'll let up be for him
[01:44:27] No history, no history
[01:44:33] No history, no history
[01:44:39] No history, no history
[01:44:51] Boom
[01:44:53] Awesome man, thanks for coming down brother
[01:44:55] My pleasure, thank you for having me
[01:44:57] And with that, Jake, the white buffalo Smith has left the building
[01:45:03] By the way, I forgot to mention this, you can find him on the interwebs
[01:45:07] At the white buffalo dot com on Facebook, at the white buffalo
[01:45:11] Instagram, buffalo
[01:45:15] Buffalo, I'm sure, maybe crazy buffalo
[01:45:19] Is it, I think you're
[01:45:21] B-U-F-F-A-L-O-C-O buffalo
[01:45:25] Yes
[01:45:27] Twitter, Blanco buffalo
[01:45:31] Right, so and then YouTube, there's also YouTube channel, the white buffalo he puts out this little video to just talk about
[01:45:39] That's that man, I'll also have him down
[01:45:43] Jake, thanks for coming down
[01:45:45] And echo
[01:45:47] There is some darkness
[01:45:49] Yeah
[01:45:51] And some light in the world
[01:45:53] It is true
[01:45:55] I think it was interesting to come and bring you know for those of us that didn't go deep
[01:45:59] Because you mentioned white buffalo
[01:46:01] A lot
[01:46:03] The buffalo, Blanco
[01:46:05] You mentioned them
[01:46:07] From time to time
[01:46:09] So those of us that didn't go deep into, you know, restart the exploring like who this was that you'd mentioned from time to time
[01:46:13] It was good to kind of bring them to light
[01:46:17] I understand now
[01:46:18] Yeah
[01:46:20] I recognize
[01:46:22] Yeah
[01:46:24] At what point did you go down
[01:46:26] Before we started recording and he was sort of
[01:46:28] Sorting out as low as the house
[01:46:30] Yeah, it was like okay
[01:46:32] Actually when he rolled in and you know when someone starts talking
[01:46:34] Especially big guy like him
[01:46:36] I think they start talking
[01:46:38] Oh, you have a singing voice right now
[01:46:40] Maybe I tell this
[01:46:40] You know why though I think
[01:46:42] Because you know like I used to do when I used to make
[01:46:44] Like more
[01:46:46] Like don't show me say like narrative type videos
[01:46:48] And I I would hire a lot of voice over people
[01:46:50] Yeah
[01:46:52] And I did some voice over
[01:46:54] I'm gonna do it for actually Charles
[01:46:56] Yes
[01:46:58] So a lot of these professional voice over people
[01:47:00] Like you listen to their demo or some some of the guys like I'd call up on the phone
[01:47:06] And when they answer the phone I'm like
[01:47:08] I see
[01:47:10] What you're working with there already just them talking
[01:47:14] One guy one guy was like he put on you could tell he put it on to answer them
[01:47:18] Is that can allow you like yeah I'm looking for Mike Jacobs the voice actor
[01:47:24] And he's like one second please hello
[01:47:26] Yeah, actually that's essentially what happened except he just oh without the gate
[01:47:34] He was he was performing he was a auditioning straight out on his own
[01:47:38] But thing is I emailed him so he knew I was gonna call so of course
[01:47:42] But nonetheless when her Jake talk out it's like oh I did hit me like okay
[01:47:47] I see you and then some pipes yes or yeah, and then that's why I was gonna ask him like so he
[01:47:53] You didn't take any voice lessons or anything but you just got the
[01:47:57] Got the talent yeah, how did it get just good
[01:48:01] Oh, yeah, so
[01:48:03] Yes, so is that that point I think is when it started to hit me and then yeah the first song was really really good
[01:48:09] And then the second song was really really good that's that's just the absolute tip of the iceberg man
[01:48:15] They're gold all throughout those albums man
[01:48:18] Yeah legit I'm looking to it
[01:48:21] Well, there's darkness in the world as we heard yes, it's true also some light yes
[01:48:27] We talk about the darkness, but we want to move towards the light what he got how can we move towards the light is always
[01:48:33] Be moving towards the light you got embraced the darkness everyone's in a while
[01:48:36] But at the end of the day you don't want to just hang out in darkness all the time that's why we're writing songs called carnage
[01:48:45] Check and so
[01:48:47] We're doing keeping ourselves capable
[01:48:49] As opposed to incapable
[01:48:51] We are keeping ourselves healthy
[01:48:53] Which allows us to be capable
[01:48:56] Which allows us to get out of the darkness if need be so this is what we're doing we're working out we're reading
[01:49:02] You're you a lot I read way more than I did before
[01:49:07] Who's that just talk to somebody I think it's Darip Cooper about like right it grow up just oh
[01:49:13] There's a book let me start reading books, yeah, but now I'm sort of like that like all that
[01:49:19] Let's say yeah, well, he said we're to grow up and you said quiet he said I wouldn't have ready
[01:49:21] If I'd like a quiet more stuff to do which that was a good point
[01:49:25] Sure, not that San Diego sucks though. I think I'm just more mature and understand the value more
[01:49:30] You know how like when you read a lot of times it's like I'm reading you know
[01:49:34] I guess that's first as far as reading goes anyway
[01:49:37] We're doing a lot of stuff to keep ourselves capable of look through okay, let's go back to working out through workouts
[01:49:43] Our bodies take a beating it's the nature of working out really true you work out take a beating true
[01:49:48] Then you recover from that beating those are called gains and
[01:49:51] We want to perpetuate gains, but you got to perpetuate beatings as well so the beatings are the darkness the gains are the light
[01:49:58] Exactly
[01:50:00] Exactly, exactly right
[01:50:02] Anyway, so your joints will take a beating so no worries
[01:50:06] We got some good supplementation for those joints. I have for other stuff so jockel fuel this they line
[01:50:12] high quality tip top top tier
[01:50:16] quality
[01:50:18] supplementation. Okay
[01:50:20] joint warfare
[01:50:22] joints
[01:50:23] Keep your joints in the game 100% super krill oil same deal some antioxidants in their
[01:50:30] two super healthy first healthy situation the grill oil
[01:50:34] Vitamin D and I'm going down the line not in particular or I'm going down the line in the order that I take
[01:50:38] I'm straight up every single morning by the way back on the discipline um discipline routine
[01:50:44] Thanks for the suggestion to you. I'll let's okay vitamin D
[01:50:49] immunity keep the immunity up also cold war for immunity
[01:50:54] These are critical in staying in the game and if you don't believe me try not take them
[01:50:59] I don't try not take them but I'm just saying
[01:51:02] Theoretic if you want to test tacos theories you know go ahead and try it you don't recommend it
[01:51:07] Yeah, especially if you took them for a long time then stop taking them that's when you get you see you know
[01:51:13] It's kind of like it's kind of like you stop drinking if you've been drinking for a long time
[01:51:17] You stop drinking how like how much energy you have the next day. It's kind of like that
[01:51:21] I mean you know in a manner speak anyway, you know, I'm talking about also
[01:51:25] Discipline the supplement okay. It's like a whole thing
[01:51:30] It is a multiple choices. Yes multiple choice wait what is
[01:51:35] Discipline yes could you gonna have discipline
[01:51:39] Pills capsules you're gonna have discipline powder and you can have discipline in the cans
[01:51:43] Yes the whole line of discipline is true and
[01:51:47] It's sorted itself out and it makes sense to be like okay, so discipline powder take pretty much every day pretty much
[01:51:52] Mm-hmm
[01:51:54] Think before workout that's mainly the thing but if I don't work out that day just take it in the morning boom kind of get off to a good sort of start you know
[01:52:02] The can I use it as essentially an energy drink
[01:52:07] Except for you you don't feel like junk. Yeah, and it's like more refreshing than an energy drink
[01:52:12] So it's kind of like this like a I don't know a refreshing energy drink
[01:52:17] Okay
[01:52:18] Multiple flavors by the way um and then the pills that's sort of like on the go I only took the pills one time
[01:52:24] It's really yeah, doesn't take in the pills many times yeah, it hasn't rolled into my routine as
[01:52:30] seamlessly as maybe in your situation nice to get that little hitter
[01:52:34] Truth to get that little hitter boy. I don't imagine so yes, but
[01:52:40] Jocco IT we got that as well. We also got mocks. So look you need supplementation
[01:52:44] We talked about we talk about the gains being the light well you need something to build the light with
[01:52:52] From a physics point of view
[01:52:55] When you want to make gains you need protein
[01:52:59] You might as well protein that tastes like a dessert
[01:53:03] Get yourself some milk. Yeah, it's true. So my son is for he'll be for this month
[01:53:08] Goes into the closet. This was not yesterday before day before yesterday goes into the closet gets uh the peanut butter
[01:53:16] Moch not the kid the warrior kid one
[01:53:18] He says can we make some milkshakes straight up
[01:53:22] Isn't it awesome that your son wants something as much as you want him to have it?
[01:53:27] Yes, here go it like how often you get to your city your kid? Yes, they're begging you to do something
[01:53:33] That's gonna make them healthier stronger and a better person. Yeah, exactly right go have some milk
[01:53:38] I'll make I'll make all the moch you want how's that sound? Yeah
[01:53:41] It's like them asking you hey can I go tell you some push-ups like do you mind if I do that?
[01:53:46] Do you mind if I go outside and do a bunch of eight cow and body builders? Do you get some and you're like absolutely?
[01:53:52] What can I have some milk? Yes, you can it's the same feel makes it up for you
[01:53:55] Let me throw it in the blender throw it in the shaker and just make one up for you
[01:54:00] Exactly right it's like okay, you know how we play you know
[01:54:03] Well where we want to be playing we we want to be playing the lung game right just to cheat strategic over tactical
[01:54:10] So everyone's in a while and I've said this before it's true and once in a while you get one of those
[01:54:16] Golden diamond nuggets. Mm-hmm that is
[01:54:22] beneficial
[01:54:24] Short-term and long-term
[01:54:26] They're rare. They're not every day. They're not every day at every corner. They're not they're rare, but they're there and milk is one of them straight up one of them
[01:54:34] Salmon sushi me as another one. That's my opinion
[01:54:37] So why did we say chocolate you mentioned it sure certified organic
[01:54:41] Refreshing chocolate tea in the tea bags and in cans too. By the way my wife is on those on that kick still
[01:54:49] You get this stuff at origin domain.com or you can get it the vitamin shop around the corner
[01:54:54] Yes, the vitamin shop around the corner. You have to wait
[01:54:59] Go get some
[01:55:00] Screw speaking of origin main.com other stuff on there
[01:55:03] Notably jeans American made denim
[01:55:07] Straight up from the fabric that is fabricated
[01:55:13] Yep jeans are available a t-shirt's are available. But ease are available
[01:55:18] Rash guards are available anything that you basically need to cover your body boots
[01:55:24] You need to cover your body otherwise it's gonna get
[01:55:28] Scraped it's gonna get cold and you're gonna be naked. Yeah, which is not good. That's a many cases
[01:55:34] So get some clothes get some American made clothes get some American made clothes
[01:55:40] That are functional
[01:55:42] And that's where my judgment stops you have to judge the other part
[01:55:45] You
[01:55:47] Speaking of clothes and representing and wearing things
[01:55:51] Jocco has a store straight up represent on the path
[01:55:56] T-shirts disemunique discipline equals freedom
[01:56:01] Discipline
[01:56:03] Freedom and it does by the way in case you didn't know
[01:56:09] shirts
[01:56:10] hoodies
[01:56:11] hats
[01:56:13] B&Es
[01:56:15] Hardcore Rekondo t-shirts hardcore Rekondo t-shirts. Yeah, one of a kind that happened to be wearing right now
[01:56:22] wearing right now totally legit. Oh big time. I had I haven't I got just got this what we could go. Yeah, and so I've won it
[01:56:30] Maybe two three times two which we were recording not going I don't really go out in public that much
[01:56:36] But no one's wrecking that
[01:56:38] Yeah, you
[01:56:40] Yeah
[01:56:42] The moment someone recognizes this shirt that's gonna be a level of respect that's a little bit above the normal level of respect
[01:56:48] I got to be you got to be in the game and on the path yes, sir
[01:56:52] Yeah, I'm bored with that
[01:56:54] Also what else on there?
[01:56:55] Anyway, a lot of good stuff. Um, I was going to mention yes shorts
[01:57:01] Board shorts functional. I'm gonna do a whole thing out. I might even make a video about the shorts
[01:57:07] Cuz they're good they're functional and
[01:57:11] Look good and they're like double functional board shorts
[01:57:16] There you should that sounds like a marketing campaign double functional. They are
[01:57:21] Nonetheless jockelstore.com this week you can also get some more your kids sok there, right? Yes, sir. There you can
[01:57:27] Warrior kid so go get some of that also
[01:57:30] Subscribe to this podcast if you haven't yet which if you haven't yet
[01:57:33] Maybe you shouldn't maybe you should just move on with your life. I don't know
[01:57:39] We review whatever we also have some other podcast. We have the jockel unraveling podcast which you should be called the thread
[01:57:46] It's back. It's in its full glory. We have we we released or re are re releasing the
[01:57:52] Threads that were removed now. We have the unraveling we have some new unravelings coming
[01:57:58] Right now they're out
[01:58:00] Yeah grounded podcast heaven don't want we owe you warrior kid podcast
[01:58:08] Haven't done one of those we owe you but you know there's a lot of lessons you need to hear multiple times kids
[01:58:15] So jump on them we also have a YouTube channel where echo takes and he he enhances some videos
[01:58:24] Especially if it's a video that's very short and you could easily pay attention to
[01:58:28] Then he puts a bunch of enhancement in there to make sure you can watch it for two minutes in 30 seconds
[01:58:31] But when he does a three-hour video you doesn't put any enhancements in there. It's just a plain
[01:58:38] Black and white video of two heads or three heads people talking
[01:58:42] And for some reason that's the way echoes organized it which is his call. You know
[01:58:46] But if you want to see what Jake Smith the white buffalo looks like if you want to figure out why they call him the white buffalo
[01:58:53] You because he kind of represents that
[01:58:55] Wipe off you know visual kind of way
[01:58:59] Come and check it out subscribe to the YouTube YouTube channel hit like
[01:59:06] Smash the like but I don't think people I wore out that joke if you want to go what this
[01:59:11] Smash the like button or smash the subscribe
[01:59:13] Yeah like comment and subscribe. Okay. That's so weird. Oh, yeah, there's there's a new one out there
[01:59:19] Uh, there's a new wave saying it a new trend they say hit the like button and leave a comment to help out the algorithm
[01:59:29] Something along those lines
[01:59:30] It's just like an algorithm that if it has likes and inner engagement or whatever
[01:59:36] Interactions or whatever it's sort of like oh, this is the significant video
[01:59:39] So let's sort of sort of push it or whatever okay. What we're not doing this big campaign to get you to fix the algorithm
[01:59:46] You know what if you like the videos watch them
[01:59:50] Subscribe to the YouTube channel check it out that way echo can get in your head with his little videos
[01:59:57] Yeah
[01:59:59] Me getting
[02:00:03] No, who said not last yes YouTube video version all good people are agreeing with me. I think you don't put effects on a podcast
[02:00:13] Or on this particular podcast, but I'm not talking to mass I'm talking on a occasional little Easter egg rolling and maybe you thought that blows up over there
[02:00:21] It's a smoke maybe there's smoke
[02:00:23] All right, so smoke coming out of jakes guitar
[02:00:26] Yeah, okay, actually that's there's one thing that doesn't need it effects. It's Jake. Yeah, not did need it effects
[02:00:32] Did it could be cool. I don't know jury so no less yes YouTube also psychological warfare it's in album
[02:00:38] Not like white buffalo album no different more like
[02:00:45] One will just call it psychological warfare for now. So what it is is it is a smoking word album. Yes
[02:00:50] Spoken word yeah, and those words are speaking to you on your moments of weakness
[02:00:55] So if you're sure go about to skip the workout, but I can close to skipping workout two by the way
[02:01:01] Yes today that's why you're looking skinny
[02:01:03] Any
[02:01:07] Everything you yeah
[02:01:09] Is it anyway
[02:01:11] Almost skip the word for the noise while we're doing this right now. Do you think everyone's annoyed or is it gets just me?
[02:01:16] It's very possible
[02:01:18] Everyone's annoyed but unless I think this is a moment of value in my opinion
[02:01:23] Okay, I was about to skip the workout. I've listened this I didn't listen the psychological warfare
[02:01:27] This was yesterday
[02:01:29] You know why didn't have to I listened to it so many times before when I really needed it that it was like
[02:01:36] It was sort of in the role of the X back there sort of plain
[02:01:40] So I listened to it virtually in my mind and
[02:01:43] You did the workout did the workout straight up. What was awesome man good job? Yeah, but I do look at
[02:01:50] I do play that game that one that you play or were to we were talking about that it's like hey if you have those moments of like oh
[02:01:57] Yeah, like man. I really should hurry up and get to what I was gonna do you know anything any excuse
[02:02:03] You come up with your head that you're gonna skip the last part of the workout of the workout you punish yourself with extra work
[02:02:08] Yeah, you know for you can think in that I play that game 100% check
[02:02:14] Also if you want to have a visual representation to kind of keep you square away go to flipside canvas.com
[02:02:19] by my brother Dakota Meyer making cool
[02:02:22] graphical art to hang on your wall
[02:02:25] graphical
[02:02:26] I
[02:02:28] Also, you know pick up some of jakes music
[02:02:31] you don't go
[02:02:34] Download the music or order or whatever
[02:02:37] However you're gonna get that music go get it man go get it jakes out there making it happen also got some books
[02:02:44] the code
[02:02:46] The evaluation the protocols leadership strategy and tactics field manual where your kid
[02:02:51] Want to and three Mikey and the dragons discipline equals freedom field manual extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership
[02:02:59] Take up some of those books if you like what we talk about on here
[02:03:03] Also have a leadership consultancy called echelon front if you need help with leadership inside your organization
[02:03:09] Go to echelon front dot com if you want to get engaged in the online brigade that we have where I talk about leadership
[02:03:18] I interact you want to ask me a question you think and oh, I wish I could ask you a question
[02:03:24] You can you can literally come on there and ask me a question
[02:03:29] doing
[02:03:30] Two to three times a week. I'm on there live interaction go to
[02:03:34] EF online dot com
[02:03:37] Leadership is not something that you just get and now you're good and you know what maybe don't want to maybe want to ask me about jjitsu
[02:03:43] Maybe you want to ask me about some relationship that you're in whatever you want to ask me come and ask me
[02:03:50] We have the master the next monster is in Phoenix Arizona September 16th and 17th
[02:03:58] Then we're gonna be in Dallas, Texas December 3rd and 4th go to extreme ownership dot com
[02:04:03] for details we've sold out all these things that we've done these ones are
[02:04:06] Less seating because of social distancing so they're gonna sell it even quicker
[02:04:13] We have EF Overwatch if you need leadership inside your organization you want experience leadership go to
[02:04:18] EF overwatch dot com where we have candidates that are proven leaders from the military that understand the principles we talk about
[02:04:28] Go there and hire someone
[02:04:30] EF overwatch dot com we also have
[02:04:32] America's mighty warriors dot org
[02:04:37] That is mom and me mark Lee's mom
[02:04:40] Who is on a mission to do good
[02:04:44] To help service members to help their families to help gold star families to help people that are deployed around the world
[02:04:51] If you want to get involved or donate go to america's mighty warriors dot org
[02:04:57] and if you enjoy overdoing things
[02:05:03] Then you want to hear my more of my
[02:05:07] Conspicuous questions or you feel like you just can't live without
[02:05:12] a little bit more of Ecos illogical inquirees
[02:05:18] But you can find us on the in a website on twitter on instagram and on the Facebook
[02:05:23] Echo is at echo Charles and i am at jocca willink and jake the white buffalo
[02:05:27] Can be found on the interwebs at the white buffalo dot com facebook the white buffalo
[02:05:33] Instagram buffalo
[02:05:36] Twitter
[02:05:36] Blanco buffalo and his youtube channel is the white buffalo and thanks again
[02:05:44] To jake for
[02:05:45] Coming on the show for sharing your vision your voice with us thanks for taking care of our veterans and
[02:05:53] Thanks for having a sound track to my life and to all the veterans out there
[02:05:59] Thanks for stepping up into the madness into the darkness
[02:06:04] And thanks for not backing down and
[02:06:07] To the police and law enforcement fire fighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all the first
[02:06:15] Responders out there thanks for keeping the darkness at bay on the home front
[02:06:23] And everyone else out there
[02:06:25] The words from a white buffalo song called when i'm gone
[02:06:30] He says i feel it closing in on me i got to be all i can be in this life there ain't no guarantee
[02:06:38] You don't get no shit for free
[02:06:42] What does that mean?
[02:06:45] It means you got to get out there and
[02:06:48] Get after it
[02:06:50] And until next time this is echo when jaco out