Jocko Podcast 240: Your Fight Against Inertia. A Body At Rest... Combat Lessons 2, with Dave Berke

2020-07-30T08:59:03Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @davidrberke 0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:43 - Combat Lessons Book 2.  2:06:20 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:08:47 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/origin-labs/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/

AI summary of episode

and you know I I don't know when I think about this whole thing and we've been referring back to it the whole time that so many good lessons but the the the key take away for me is that whole idea of leader versus inertia and you know as soon as I said that today Dave I looked at you and I saw you had about a thousand thoughts going through your mind don't want that means and how many ways that we can apply that it's like the world is inspiring against us and it's human nature to neglect our duties and I know that sounds crazy and sure there's some outliers out there that are proactive and make things happen but you've got to assess as a leader that human nature is to be lazy and to be careless and you need definitely looking the mirror because it's not always just going to be the people that you lead it's going to be you and that section where they talk about the hardest job that you have as a leader is getting things done getting things done by people who know that they're supposed to do them and even in some cases know that those things are costing in lives failure to do things failure to take action so don't allow that be on the lookout how nice is it sometimes when you make the connection between something that's there that you've always known was there oh no sorry this section we call that it's called something else called be brave intelligently this is a weird one to read lieutenant Colonel Ariel Bryan cavalry observer with the fifth army and Italy a prisoner of war a German light machine gunner asked an interrogator whether Americans took stimulants to make them foolishly brave when asked to explain what he meant he stated that he and an assistant gunner were in position with a good field of fire one afternoon when a group of American soldiers was observed approaching he fired several short bursts and began preparation to displace to the rear when he saw the American soldiers rise to full height and start charging toward his position over a hundred yards away he reloaded his gun and opened fire killing 11 men he then withdrew because he was sure the charge was made to conceal an development but none was made unit commander has found it necessary to direct their men to make full use of concealment and covered approach continued emphasis on the necessity for dispersion and the use of covering concealment is essential so this is what we don't want to have happen we don't want people to be so brave that you charge over an open area a machine gun nest and the comment here says in the interest of efficiency bravery must be supplemented by brain work dead heroes are of little further used to their units aggressive fighting men trained to apply the most efficient technique to combat problems willing to accept any necessary risks and conscientiously avoiding unnecessary risks are the backbone of the army got to be brave but you got to be smart there's the dichotomy who's the original original statement on that was brave but not full hearting brave but not full hearted combat in towns as major campaigns develop in western europe combat in towns assumes increasing importance cities towns and villages control the established road nets which must be open for the movement of guns heavy equipment it supplies necessary to support the advance of infantry combat in towns will often be the key not only to our successful advance but to successful defensive actions let's talk about now in 1944 attack of towns captain w heherson heherson parachute retreat Italy the theory of attack of a small town or villages to work groups around the flanks cut the retreat and moving with patrols in this hilly country however we have found that where there is any high ground behind the town which dominates both the town and the line of retreat the best way is to work the entire force around the town undercover sees the high ground in the rear and firmly establish ourselves with 60 millimeter mortars on that dominating high ground we take enough food and ammunition for to last us 24 hours and the Germans usually pull out during this time from our position we can prevent reinforcement and inflict heavy losses on them during there withdrawal so we're flanking people and we're taking high ground I didn't think of anything new I didn't think of anything new Lieutenant Colonel LG Freeman parachute infantry battalion commander in Italy we learned at Altavia to avoid the direct attack of towns it's too costly we now work around to the rear with a large force and seize the dominating ground in the rear we did this at Calo Machia for Nellie and several other places the names of which I forgot I like when you're just forgetting major battles that you've had to work every time get yourself within 60 millimeter mortar range of the town on dominating terrain in or near it and the Germans won't stay in it but why is that you know he says well because I want to have more machine guns I want to have more firepower in my base element and then the the mask shooting one question said what happens if the assault element gets compromised on the way in end of discussion because now we don't have any machine guns and and by the way what should happen is if we have machine guns in the assault element the assault element just became the base element that's what just happened so and and the thing that the other lesson that I learned from that was that what you really get to do the other benefit which I actually would say isn't even bigger benefit is we have unit integrity which I love unit integrity that squad or that platoon's always working together the machine gunners are there they can break off they can assault things they can do all kinds of things where when you pull those machine gunners out they're not they're way less capable so apply that to your business to your team how do we keep the teams together how do we keep the teams together how do we keep them both how do we keep them most capable that's what we want to do setting up a little specialty moments is a risky call factors contributing to the success in this attack were prompt estimate of the situation by the commander including a study of the terrain based on personal reconnaissance development of a definite plan of maneuver based on the seizure of key terrain and outflanking enemy position detail planning of specific orders utilization of maximum firepower where available maintenance of control over the elements little section here on fighting and wooded terrain lieutenant Colonel F.L. Walker infantry battalion commander Italy the area in which my battalion operated was covered in thick scrub trees and fruit orchards interspersed with frequent farmhouses many stone walls six to eight feet in height and numerous sunken roads field of fire was greatly restricted average observation was only 52 hundred yards enemy delaying groups with machine guns were widely scattered and impossible locate until arrival within a hundred yards or less it was found necessary to place heavy weapons out in the front line or very close up to avoid hitting our troops after encountering hostile fire was found very effective to spray the entire woods ahead with a massive concentration of mortar machine gunfire for about one minute followed by a rapid advance of rifle platoons under a salt fire to cover all the trees and house windows where snipers might be hiding in each case Germans pulled out rapidly leaving weapons and ammunition behind although we had been unable to locate them previously however the tendency of troops is to wait for definitely located targets before they will open fire which results in allowing very small groups of enemy to shift position frequently and keep up a demoralizing rate of machine gunfire to cause a great delay the continuous rapid fire delivered by our heavy machine guns had a particularly demoralizing effect on the Germans. and we dashed for the open end of the jab trench we had grenadeed the trench led around to the point of the hill we crawled down the trench and found where the japs were located when we stuck our heads right up in the face of a burst of machine gun fire some men from company f had come over to help us but we're stymied we couldn't raise up long enough to fire we couldn't get close enough to throw grenades finally we decided to see if we could get some mortar fire on the position in some way corporal outford hayman started back up to check on the mortar possibilities and while we waited and rested the jab position was slightly below us and about a hundred yards further into the pass they were firing almost constantly at the troops we could see moving out in the valley and on the opposite side of the pass we were quite high up on the side of cold mountain after nearly two hours of lying in the trench and waiting we heard one of the men behind holler here he men up here he men and a man from company h the infantry were crawling up along the little ravine laying wire they had found a company h mortar and had a line right to it the big fight up on the mountain had almost gotten to the top but the forces across the pass were getting hell from the guns below us we got the phone all set up and carefully poked a little dirt a little hole in the dirt side of the trench a week so that one man could see the whole jab position below then we called mortar and the fun started we were only about a hundred yards from where the shells were striking in the ground shook they fired several rounds close and then they began to drop right in the position finally we called and told them we were moving in and not to fire the position was like a big wheel was a big wheel like a fair with holes all around it and the spokes connecting the trenches with a big center installation in the hub two Japanese machine guns in the 37 millimeter that had fired at us during the previous week were captured and destroyed there we tossed six dead japs out the hole and brought them brought up our guns up and set them in the jap holes we there we sat that night just daring the little so and so has to come up man so i decided to make a double involvement sending company i over the hill to the right and company k on a wide left development contact was to be maintained visually so there's the action he's at that that's it's actually happening so he goes through the loop in like four sentences which is totally legit base of fire five tanks were available for the attack realizing that the tanks could not move down the road to guardia which is the only tank approach due to the streams and high mountains and because the enemy had eighty-eighths and armored cars at f i decided to do in place the tanks along with my eight heavy machine guns and six eighty-one millimeter motors as shown in the sketch results the attack was successful by order the tanks and other supporting weapons opened fire five minutes before company l started its defense that is called cover move we got tanks and and supporting weapons firing and then company l starts their move after five minutes 15 prisoners were captured 25 enemy killed our casualties were approximately ten killed and fifteen wounded which when you think about the assault on a you know in an urban environment you're going to take some casualties and those are certainly some casualties but those are not as bad as you might imagine going into a city when you consider the fact that if you don't know anything about urban combat one enemy with a machine gun can kill dozens and dozens of troops the enemy strength as determined from prisoners was two rifle companies each reinforced supported by tanks armored cars eighty-eighths along the road these prisoners stated that their force was so completely disorganized and demoralized by our volume of fire that and scheme of attack that was impossible for them to make a counterattack and regain their positions planning it took about two hours to make plans for this attack which was very carefully studied planned and coordinated it's funny it's sometimes the US military spends months making plans for an attack and and he said this took two hours and we're talking about hey you know what it depends on the initiative of initiative and aggressiveness of small unit leaders making things happen where possible town should be bypassed isolated and attacked from the flanks or the rear why are we even attacking this position if we don't have to roll around it imagine if you made that part of your everyday sort of scheme maneuver I can beat my head against this wall or I can walk around it it seems like a good idea at least it seems like a good idea to me I don't know echoes over their shaking I said like I know a lot of times when you say every you know you use those what he call those words that are real like real permanent that's available wherever you can to MP3's also if you want a visual representation of those types of messages go to flipsidecampus.com my brother Dakota Myers makes stuff to hang on your wall got a bunch of books to code the evaluation protocol leaders substratting tactics field manual way the warrior kid one two and three micy in the dragons discipline acres freedom field manual extreme ownership and that I caught a minute of leadership you can get those books pretty much anywhere books are sold we have a consulting agency for leadership and what we do is we solve problems through leadership go to ascelonfront.com for details if you can't get with us live that's fine go to efomyn.com where we get granular with these things on a regular basis where you want to talk to me you want to interact with me go to efomyn.com you will you will ask me questions me on a zoom call you want to talk to Dave you want to ask him something go to efomyn.com you will interact with him you will ask him questions he will give you answers that's what we do on that channel was a bunch of training on that channel there's a forum on that channel so go to efomyn.com for that we also have the master coming up in phoenix Arizona September 16th and 17th and then Dallas Texas December 3rd and 4th check extremist extremal ownership.com for details we've we're going to be doing these looks like with social distancing so there's going to be less seats available which means I'm going to sell out faster we have efo Overwatch which is our placement firm we're taking people from the military and placing them into businesses so if you are a that looking for work or you are a company looking for leaders to come in your company they don't understand the principles that we talk about here go to efoverwatch.com if you want to help out veterans around the world service members around the world go to america's mighty warriors dot org that is marklies mom mommily helping all service people out you can go there and you can either donate or you can get involved and if you just can't get enough of my in terminable tirades or you need a little bit more of echo Charles's preposterous postulations or maybe just like to hear one more of Dave's jangling juxtapositions then you can find us on the inner webs on twitter instagram and on facebook davis at david berk david r berk b r k e echoes at echo Charles and i am at jacca and he's like no we can't stay here and leadership is the only thing that gets people to see that that that is that those are the times when you have to lead from the front you got to make things happen doubling in brass and I have no idea I don't know if there's some weird 1940s idiom that I don't know about but this title is sections doubling in brass citation 37th division new Georgia while private Blair F. hurts was performing his duties with the maintenance section in the vicinity of the unit ration dump they were attacked by japs who had surrounded them he grabbed a bar and advanced on a jap machine gun that was delivering intense accurate and extremely effective fire into the dump private hurts was able to silence this machine gun and then continue to aid aggressively in the defense of the position until reinforcements arrived just getting after it just in the rear getting after it when the citation starts with the private you know you know this is going to be a good one you know he got some The company led by Captain Thomas Biodonol was thrown into confusion by the strafing of hostile airplanes while it was forming to attack under heavy enemy ground small arms fire seeing the immediate need captain O'Donnell move from his squad from squad to squad restoring order and then led his men to the assault during which he received a severe wound in the neck and shoulder and was evacuated three days later upon hearing that his company was again scheduled to make an attack he insisted upon returning to the fight although we can suffer severe pain from his wounds he led his company in attacks on the enemy until five days later when he was mortally wounded while moving about into advanced positions encouraging his men one of the one of the one of the lessons that I taught specifically I taught it's a little bunch of people but the first time I remember teaching if someone was to was to Seth Stone the Delta Patoon commander who you know when you're doing immediate action drills there's there's standard operating procedures and you follow you follow the standard operating procedures and he would you know he would follow what the rules were and that if that meant that he was gonna his next position that he was supposed to go to according to the standard operating procedures was behind a berm where he couldn't see anything that's where he was going and you know I just said hey man why are you going there you know uh because this is where we're supposed to go I said can you see anything no can you make a call no can you can you lead your men no okay move move around go see what you got to see you can move around you you don't you don't you can't break the SOPs there's a difference right you can't break the SOPs but you don't have to follow them perfectly so there's a big difference breaking the SOPs means you get out of your lane and now you can get shot by friendly fire not following the SOPs means you're staying within the confines of the rules but you're still moving around and telling people what to do and you can imagine this is a perfect example of what this whole thing started off with which is look this guy in order to get his troops to go he had to personally get out there and and you know why would you risk your life to him to in that's what it says encourages men why would you risk your life to encourage your men you know why because if you don't do that your men are going anywhere that's the breaking the inertia you talk about at the beginning exactly you don't do that as a leader you're going to sit there anger you're going to you're going to eventually you're going to get rolled you're all going to die in that position you cannot stay there but the path of the least resistance that human nature is I like this box hole okay I have burpees at the end of this workout I've finished the work I work out with hundred burpees we'll say I'll be like man now workout was pretty solid you know I don't know about those burpees you know let's we'll do those burpees another time we're gonna skip the burpees is what we're gonna do then this comes time to skip the point you're like you know what no hundred fifty or two hundred now just for thinking that you know what positions they had one little fight with in a battle you know one little tiny fight with in a battle and think of all those decisions that got made and all those actions that took place in the mistakes that had to be covered for and the initiative that had to be shown and the bravery and the courage I mean it's just it's leadership that's that's what it is it's leadership they they go through a bunch of this information continuing on they there's another group that takes another point and and again look these guys I can pretty much guarantee are no longer alive but this is these are quotes these are what these guys are saying happened you know things like lieutenant wallsack saying check your bayonets as they get ready to do this assault and there's just so there's some some other little battles within fights within battles that they cover and then it gets into this comment section these accounts bring out some of the characteristics of mountain warfare in which success depends more upon proper adaptation of available means to the terrain then upon their power so the way you adapt is more important they continue maneuver of small units and the initiative and leadership of subordinate commanders are of the highest importance in mountain warfare the actions of small semi-independent units in seizing or defending heights and or in fighting to seize or block passes become of increasing importance so once again even though this book starts off with the extreme dichotomy of discipline of following orders it comes back always to decentralize command an individual initiative by subordinate leaders to make things happen he's talking about mountain warfare there and and getting to this idea of I mean that's it that's leadership yeah we're gonna just surround the target it works when nothing goes wrong it works when the enemy doesn't start shooting it works if you have on the positive side it works if you have a terrain feature that prevents friendly fire which is possible you can have a you know a ravine that allows you to be in a certain position but when you when you do these battalion sized operations you're actually getting out of the you should be moving outside the range of your own weapons which is what the goal is right you know we're really far away and and as long as we are shooting our weapons at the enemy there's a very small chance that our weapons are gonna hit our friendly forces so be very careful about double development and same thing with going to an enemy's rear like if you're gonna do that so what what what what am I supposed to do then just keep so what we we've heard that question we hear that question a lot I always have to put myself in check because just because I think that's what they're going to say doesn't mean that's what they're going to say it doesn't mean that there's not some nuance to it doesn't mean that I can spit out some module about how you you know well you continue to support them no listen to what they're saying don't stop them from talking you know the the minute somewhere I see this in group dynamics you know there's a discussion going on and someone's talking and someone else someone else in the group will cut them off and this is another thing I talked about on the F online think about how disrespeckful it is to cut someone off right like you might not say anything to me because if I think I know what Dave's going to say I'm going to cut him off and that's true and even if it's subconscious it's true you know because if I don't know what you're going to say and I'm like kind of curious I'm going to I'm going to wait to hear it you know

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 240.
[00:00:03] With echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink.
[00:00:06] Good evening, Echo.
[00:00:07] Good evening, and also doing us tonight.
[00:00:10] Once again, Dave Burke.
[00:00:13] Good evening, Dave.
[00:00:14] Good evening.
[00:00:15] All right, last podcast, which was podcast 2.39, in case you couldn't subtract one from
[00:00:22] 240.
[00:00:23] And I suppose we should give out some kind of shout out to the 240 Gulf.
[00:00:26] I don't know why, but we should.
[00:00:29] Shout out to all you machine gunners out there that ran that 240 Gulf.
[00:00:35] Last podcast, 239, we covered the first edition of combat lessons, rank and file in combat,
[00:00:43] what they do and how they do it.
[00:00:45] That was number one.
[00:00:46] And you know, to be honest, when I got done with that one, I said, yeah, that's cool.
[00:00:50] But there's more of them.
[00:00:52] And I kind of thought to myself, you know, well, how many combat lessons are there, right?
[00:00:58] I remember this is 240 podcast worth of combat lessons.
[00:01:03] But I was leaning towards, hey, probably not going to cover more of these things, because
[00:01:07] they're on more of them.
[00:01:08] And then I started reading number two.
[00:01:11] And as I read number two, kind of out of the gate section one, which is called leadership,
[00:01:16] and you just get, you just restart reading it.
[00:01:18] And before I knew it, I couldn't stop and there's more lessons, more perspectives,
[00:01:23] more angles, more knowledge to make us better.
[00:01:26] And I was really coming at this one.
[00:01:29] I was really thinking about life a lot, all aspects of life.
[00:01:33] And I think it's the opening of this that gave me that sort of mindset going through it.
[00:01:39] I was thinking about life, the parallels, or everywhere.
[00:01:43] All right, let's go to the book.
[00:01:46] And I think Dave, coming out of the gate, you're going to realize where, why I got so sucked
[00:01:52] into this thing, just out of the gate.
[00:01:53] So the first section, like I said, it's called leadership.
[00:01:56] And then the first subsection is leaders versus inertia.
[00:02:04] I was already, I was, you had me at inertia, as they say.
[00:02:08] Lieutenant Colonel, our E.O. Brian Cavalry observer with the fifth army in Italy.
[00:02:13] Here's what he says.
[00:02:15] In spite of the fact that I observed many interesting things in practice, in the practice
[00:02:20] of tactics and technique, still the one lesson that stands out in my mind above all others
[00:02:24] is the one that is so well-known by military men that it's statement here amounts to a little
[00:02:29] more than a platitude.
[00:02:30] I mentioned it however, because it had such a profound effect upon me, that lesson is the
[00:02:35] importance of and need for adequate leadership.
[00:02:41] So cool.
[00:02:42] I got through that.
[00:02:43] Fine, I wasn't quite there yet.
[00:02:46] And then I read this.
[00:02:48] The effect on most men of the impact of battle is to cause them to want to do nothing.
[00:02:59] A determined effort must be exerted to accomplish even simple tasks, and men are likely
[00:03:04] to neglect duties which they know must be performed.
[00:03:08] So think about that.
[00:03:10] Right out of the gate, right there.
[00:03:11] The effect of men in battle is that you're going to want to do nothing.
[00:03:15] And again, this is why I was talking about how this started making me think about life a
[00:03:19] lot.
[00:03:20] Think about that when it comes to life.
[00:03:23] How many people are just drawn towards the easy path not doing what you're supposed
[00:03:29] to do duties that you know must be performed but you neglect them.
[00:03:35] That's the difference between success and failure in life, by the way.
[00:03:38] Did you guys say in the Marine Corps why stand if you can sit, why sit if you can lay
[00:03:44] down?
[00:03:45] I'm going to say that in the Marine Corps.
[00:03:46] Similar.
[00:03:47] What do you guys say?
[00:03:48] I'm trying to think of the phrase but it's the same.
[00:03:50] I'm just like why do this when you can just do that?
[00:03:53] I never would say what I'm saying.
[00:03:54] But as soon as you say that, I know you were saying I was little thrown off by the title.
[00:03:58] Because you said leadership versus inertia.
[00:04:00] Now, it's thinking myself.
[00:04:02] Leadership kind of creates inertia.
[00:04:04] And when he's saying stand and the people who fall like Newtonian physics are going to
[00:04:08] laugh me out of the building.
[00:04:10] But it seems like what he's describing is the opposite of inertia sitting there doing nothing
[00:04:13] rather than moving in a direction.
[00:04:16] Or it's the you're fighting to keep it going.
[00:04:18] Yeah.
[00:04:19] And inertia moving.
[00:04:20] Yeah.
[00:04:21] He says there is no force other than a driving leadership to overcome this inertia.
[00:04:26] So he talks about inertia as the static being not moving.
[00:04:30] This tendency to carelessness and to infuse a determination to succeed in the minds of the
[00:04:35] individual men.
[00:04:37] When this spark of leadership is present, the individual knows that others feel it too.
[00:04:43] And that his effort is not alone.
[00:04:44] However, I was not a leader in this campaign.
[00:04:47] So I will quote an officer who is a successful commander in an infantry regiment, the wearer
[00:04:53] of a silver star an officer who has a fine reputation in his division.
[00:04:57] And here's what this officer says.
[00:05:01] This tell your people when you return that the hardest job they will have here is getting
[00:05:08] things done.
[00:05:10] My men know their weapons and tactics thoroughly.
[00:05:12] My effort is simply to require them to do the things they know must be done.
[00:05:19] Pusting security, dispatching patrols, seeking a field of fire, retaining their equipment
[00:05:24] and making sure that it is in working order.
[00:05:27] You have to check all the time.
[00:05:31] I believe it was Patton that said 90% of your job as a leader is making sure that the orders
[00:05:37] get executed.
[00:05:38] I'm sure that the things actually get done.
[00:05:42] So that opening right there is what kind of made me just say we need to talk about this.
[00:05:48] Because it's applicable so directly to us as human beings.
[00:05:55] And you know, I was talking about the gravitational pull.
[00:05:57] The gravitational pull, you ever seen the chart of the gravitational pull of when the
[00:06:01] space shuttle or something launches.
[00:06:03] I guess it's not the space shuttle.
[00:06:05] It's space X.
[00:06:06] Sure.
[00:06:07] Elon kicking those things up into space.
[00:06:11] But they use whatever.
[00:06:12] So massive amount of their power is to get the first whatever.
[00:06:18] My a lot.
[00:06:19] That's where they use 50% of their, I don't know what the percentage is.
[00:06:21] But it's a massive percentage of the power is to break free of the gravitational pull of
[00:06:25] the earth.
[00:06:26] They're one set of three of it.
[00:06:27] They're moving there.
[00:06:28] Okay.
[00:06:29] Like so much of the effort of a leader is just to get things to go.
[00:06:34] Get things to move.
[00:06:36] And we're going to get to this.
[00:06:37] There's definitely some things here.
[00:06:38] And we're about to roll into them where it talks about, you know, so much reliance on the
[00:06:44] leadership and in certain situations, you can see them leaning towards a micro management.
[00:06:53] You know, a hay, if I don't make this happen.
[00:06:55] But in all the parts of this book, they start talking about how the way that you're going
[00:07:00] to win is through individual efforts and individual leadership.
[00:07:03] So you get into decentralized command a little bit later.
[00:07:05] But I think it's one of those dichotomies.
[00:07:07] I think it's one of those dichotomies.
[00:07:08] In the matter of fact, I know it's a dichotomy that sometimes the phrase I used to use a
[00:07:14] lot and I used it a lot on this podcast was force of will.
[00:07:17] Right?
[00:07:18] Hey, you know, as a leader, I'm just going to make this happen.
[00:07:20] There is going to be a force of will.
[00:07:21] We are going to win this thing.
[00:07:22] We're going to go.
[00:07:23] I'm going to make this happen.
[00:07:24] And that's what he's talking about here.
[00:07:26] This force of will that you have to exert to make things happen.
[00:07:31] Even things that people know they should do.
[00:07:34] The next section, discipline.
[00:07:37] So right out of the gate, we're talking leadership and discipline.
[00:07:39] I was I was in there.
[00:07:41] The keys to success in combat, the key to success in combat, commanding general in a personal
[00:07:47] letter to Lieutenant General McNair.
[00:07:49] I would like to mention a few things I consider important in getting any prospective units
[00:07:54] ready for duty in Southwest Pacific.
[00:07:56] The first of all requisites is discipline with a capital D.
[00:08:03] I refer to discipline in all its phases.
[00:08:06] Water discipline, malaria discipline, personal appearance, military courtesy, the wearing of
[00:08:12] the uniform, personal and collective sanitation, carrying out orders in general, assumption
[00:08:19] and proper discharge of responsibility throughout the chain of command, etc.
[00:08:24] There's an inclination for men as well as some officers to go native in the tropics to
[00:08:29] let down mentally on material and spiritual values.
[00:08:34] So discipline is especially needed here.
[00:08:37] Need this to say I consider an aggressive offensive spirit always goes hand in hand with
[00:08:42] good discipline.
[00:08:45] So that's one of those things where we're talking about in post discipline.
[00:08:50] In some ways there, right?
[00:08:51] You make sure your weapons are clean.
[00:08:53] Make sure you're cleaning yourselves.
[00:08:54] There's a whole list of things.
[00:08:57] Make sure you're drinking water.
[00:08:58] Make sure you're cleaning your feet.
[00:09:01] Isn't that a weird one?
[00:09:02] Have you ever been in the water in the bush long enough to get like a really bad feet?
[00:09:08] No.
[00:09:09] I got a minor case of trench foot.
[00:09:14] When the guy who is my swim buddy during this particular long S&R operation, where we were
[00:09:20] a two man pair out there, just a training operation, but he got actual trench foot.
[00:09:24] He went to medical and they're like, oh yes, you have trench foot.
[00:09:28] It's weird that things like that.
[00:09:32] When you see talk to your guys about Vietnam, one of the main things that the officers
[00:09:37] would do is check guys feet because they wouldn't check on themselves.
[00:09:41] So even something that seems so obvious, like you'd want to take care of your feet,
[00:09:48] people will not make that little extra effort.
[00:09:51] The inertia for them is to say, you know what I'm just going to go to sleep with my boots
[00:09:55] on their wet.
[00:09:56] I'm not going to drop my feet.
[00:09:57] By the way, you can sleep with your boots on.
[00:09:58] I did.
[00:09:59] We would sleep with our boots on the field, but we take our socks off.
[00:10:03] We'd unlace our boots.
[00:10:05] So our feet are in there just kind of loose.
[00:10:06] They can kind of dry out a little bit.
[00:10:09] Hang your socks on a little tree or something nearby.
[00:10:13] But you don't want to get rolled up.
[00:10:14] Echoes are looking positive.
[00:10:15] You don't want to get rolled up in the field without your boots on.
[00:10:17] Okay.
[00:10:18] That makes sense.
[00:10:19] Figure rolled up in the field without your boots on.
[00:10:20] You got some problems to deal with.
[00:10:22] I can see that BTF Tony, you take one boot off.
[00:10:25] You fix whatever you've got to fix.
[00:10:26] And you put that boot back on, then you don't take both of them off.
[00:10:29] You're just sitting there.
[00:10:31] John McLean style.
[00:10:32] Basically make it.
[00:10:33] Oh yeah, that's a movie.
[00:10:35] Die hard.
[00:10:36] The first one.
[00:10:37] He runs on the glass.
[00:10:38] Yes, he wound up running over glass.
[00:10:41] How come he has to be a call without his boots on?
[00:10:43] Because when he arrived at Nakatomi Plaza, he at a request, not a request, a recommendation
[00:10:50] from a friend.
[00:10:52] Take off your shoes and you make fists in the carpet with your toes.
[00:10:55] It distresses you.
[00:10:56] That's what he was doing in the middle of this hijacking scenario.
[00:11:00] Interesting.
[00:11:01] You know, see, there are what I was thinking that this book had knowledge in it.
[00:11:06] Next, Lieutenant Colonel Clifton F. Con, 77th field artillery, and he lead the great
[00:11:17] stress placed upon discipline and the chain of command is not an overemphasis and never
[00:11:23] can be.
[00:11:24] We have found again and again that the highest standards of discipline are absolutely necessary
[00:11:28] in and out of combat.
[00:11:29] In no other way, can you be assured that the individual soldier will carry out orders without
[00:11:34] supervision and in combat this is essential.
[00:11:39] Again, we're talking about very stringent discipline.
[00:11:44] We're talking about imposed discipline.
[00:11:46] I mean, we are.
[00:11:48] It's called it like it is.
[00:11:49] Yeah, but the connection he's making is, is why I was thinking as you're talking
[00:11:52] out last passage, it's that connection to the imposed discipline that I'm going to start
[00:11:56] with.
[00:11:57] That's going to get you to recognize over time.
[00:12:00] What you need to do the self-discipline you need to create.
[00:12:03] And if your plan is like, I'm just going to make my folks self-discipline, you're
[00:12:06] actually going to skip the part where they learn why you have to do it.
[00:12:08] And sometimes that starts with, you're going to do this.
[00:12:11] You could explain it.
[00:12:13] But you asked me if I ever had immersion footer trench, but I never spent enough time in
[00:12:17] environment to have to deal with that.
[00:12:19] But I'll tell you my very first for smart, for smart, which is a five mile for smart,
[00:12:24] like a very short for smart and also candid school in 1991.
[00:12:28] We stopped 50 minutes into it.
[00:12:29] We all changed our socks.
[00:12:30] That's what we did.
[00:12:32] And so that's one example of, but it was totally imposed on us, but I was able to make
[00:12:37] that connection from these other people.
[00:12:40] And so you're telling the story about people that were non-combat ready because of that.
[00:12:44] But those lessons are all over the place in the military.
[00:12:47] And it's all search the same way, which is sit down, take your boots off, change your
[00:12:51] socks.
[00:12:52] And then over time you make the connection of, oh, I understand what I need to do this.
[00:12:56] So no, I never had it, but I was taught that lesson very early on.
[00:13:00] Yeah, there's some sort of, you know, obvious religious overtones too of, right, of
[00:13:07] like taking care of your men's feet, right?
[00:13:10] That's just a powerful thing.
[00:13:14] Next, the basis of good discipline.
[00:13:15] One of our problems has been to get junior officers and young NTO sufficiently hard-boiled
[00:13:21] to exact from their subordinates and meticulous obedience to every order.
[00:13:27] We must ingrain in all ranks the realization that orders are not to be treated as suggestions,
[00:13:32] but as concrete facts calling for the utmost effort until they have been carried out.
[00:13:38] So many people seem to feel that orders which are inconvenient or unpopular are to be
[00:13:44] disregarded.
[00:13:45] And this is one of those things.
[00:13:47] Hard for me to read this because we're always telling people, look, the military is not
[00:13:51] this thing.
[00:13:52] We're just someone barks orders of you and everyone just obeys, which it's not.
[00:13:57] This state of mind is a disease and must be eliminated.
[00:14:01] So what this section says or what this individual is saying, and I don't know if this is
[00:14:06] the same guy talking because it's not broken out.
[00:14:09] But then it says this, then it says this.
[00:14:13] On the other hand, so we got dichotomy and elimination, presupposes that all commanding
[00:14:20] officers and staffs take care that the orders they issue are consistent, correct, and
[00:14:26] capable of being carried out.
[00:14:28] So that's a very discrete way of saying, if you give me an order, that's not consistent,
[00:14:36] not correct and not capable of being carried out, I'm not going to follow it.
[00:14:40] That's what that says.
[00:14:42] They do it in a very roundabout way.
[00:14:44] They're very cautious about how they said that because they know they had Colonel Pog and
[00:14:47] the room there or right this.
[00:14:49] And Colonel Pog said, these bad need to listen.
[00:14:53] Because Colonel Pog comes up with the best plan every time.
[00:14:58] Master your job.
[00:14:59] Lieutenant General Walter Kruger, discipline and the leadership of small units are the things
[00:15:05] which require constant emphasis.
[00:15:08] The enlisted man or officer who does not follow instructions and orders implicitly during
[00:15:12] training or prior to reaching combat areas and who cannot do everything every member of
[00:15:19] his unit might have to do is not properly qualified.
[00:15:21] The squad leader must know exactly what each member of his squad should do in each type
[00:15:25] of operation.
[00:15:26] The platoon leaders should have the same knowledge concerning his squad's and the company
[00:15:30] commander of his platoon.
[00:15:31] Officers must not start worrying about the big picture until they have mastered all the details
[00:15:37] of the little one.
[00:15:39] It's an interesting one.
[00:15:41] I can tell you right now that it would be impossible to know everything that this sniper
[00:15:47] knows it would be possible to know everything that the radio man knows it would be impossible
[00:15:50] to know everything that the point man knows it would be impossible to know everything
[00:15:53] that the breach or knows.
[00:15:55] Do you need to understand them?
[00:15:57] Yes.
[00:15:58] Should you be able to set up that breaching charge and clock it off if you have to absolutely
[00:16:02] should you be able to pick up that radio and make comms if you have to where I take my
[00:16:07] take the communicate.
[00:16:08] It may take the radio man for seconds to do it.
[00:16:10] It might take you three minutes.
[00:16:12] Should you be able to not do it?
[00:16:14] Yes.
[00:16:17] At some point if you're worrying about the details of the little picture, you might be doing
[00:16:23] a disservice by thinking too much about the little picture and not enough about the big
[00:16:28] picture.
[00:16:29] So I think officers should start thinking about the big picture from day one and understanding
[00:16:36] how things fit together.
[00:16:37] Now you can't get lost in that but you got to start thinking about it early.
[00:16:42] Otherwise your habit is just worrying about the little things.
[00:16:45] Your focus becomes looking down and in and set up an out.
[00:16:50] So little.
[00:16:52] That one's too strong for me.
[00:16:54] Too strong for me.
[00:16:55] And I talked about that in leadership strategy and tactics.
[00:16:58] You got to know what to do but.
[00:17:01] There's like a very discreet place in the military where you go from being tactical.
[00:17:08] They call it operation but where you start being a strategic in the Marine Corps it's
[00:17:11] got being a company great officer which is like a junior officer for brand new lieutenant
[00:17:15] to a field great officer.
[00:17:17] And all of a sudden there's this magical moment that when you get promoted from in the
[00:17:21] Marine Corps it's captain to major and a fits in the Navy from Lieutenant to Lieutenant
[00:17:24] Commander.
[00:17:25] Well all of a sudden overnight you are now a field great officer and you're supposed to
[00:17:28] think strategically.
[00:17:29] In this transition point actually is a big source of friction for a lot of folks and the
[00:17:33] people that struggle the most going from company to field great are the ones who have never
[00:17:37] thought about the big picture before.
[00:17:40] And it's not to say that as a second lieutenant that I've been in the Marine Corps for six
[00:17:42] months I need to walk into the CO's office and start talking strategy.
[00:17:47] But you have to start thinking very early on about the impacts of what you do to the big
[00:17:50] picture and assume you can make the connection the easier that transition is.
[00:17:54] And the longer you hold on it because it's just kind of like this cool bravado of like
[00:17:59] I'm a tactician and it sounds really cool and I just want to fly the airplane and I don't
[00:18:03] only care about the big picture.
[00:18:04] Well when the time comes you get promoted and you probably will it was really clear
[00:18:09] the ones who never really thought about what they were doing and how that fit into the
[00:18:12] larger world when you made that promotion that obviously actually became highly incompetent
[00:18:18] at being a field great officer because that's when you were starting and you were being
[00:18:21] out maneuvered by guys who had been doing it since they were brand new officers.
[00:18:25] You know what's really interesting about that is there are some people that have a
[00:18:30] personality and or skill set that is more suited to be a tactical officer and there's
[00:18:37] some people that have a personality and skill set that is more suited to be a field
[00:18:43] great officer or a strategic thinker that's and I see this in companies too.
[00:18:48] I work with companies where the CEO that got that company from whatever position you know
[00:18:56] got them to go public or got them perched or poised to go public as soon as they're
[00:19:02] going public that guy's out there or maybe even before they go public because this guy
[00:19:06] he's good at making the exact dynamic but he's not polished he's not clean he can't
[00:19:10] brief up the chain of command well he doesn't articulate himself at the next level because
[00:19:15] some people can flow from talking to a platoon like the snowpapers was going on like you're
[00:19:21] you can be in that mode and you can walk turnaround and talk to give the general a brief on
[00:19:25] what the impact on the cultural moment or the civilian populist and all those things.
[00:19:31] Some people can do both some people do one some people do the other and it's very interesting.
[00:19:37] It's very interesting because you might not make it to field great officer even though
[00:19:44] you might be you might be good at it but you just don't have the you just don't have it.
[00:19:53] So think about that when you're working with you know when you got people
[00:19:58] subordinates that you're working with you might have somebody that's not maybe the best
[00:20:02] tactical leader.
[00:20:05] Are they can they do the job? You know what I mean look they might not be able to do they might not be
[00:20:10] the best at it but maybe they can get through that job and they can do a good job as the
[00:20:17] at the next level up and some people they might be incredible that get after it in the field
[00:20:25] and you can't let them brief the boss because they're going to mess it up. So the good thing is
[00:20:34] if you're if you're one of these humans out there if you're one of these potential leaders
[00:20:38] think about where you are and think about modulating your personality depending I can promise you
[00:20:46] if you watched me debrief a seal platoon and then you watched me brief the secretary of the navy
[00:20:55] those two guys like the venn diagram overlap was pretty small.
[00:21:01] If you were just to take the words that I said just a man you scrapped or whatever trianscript of what I said
[00:21:06] the core things that I said the I wasn't saying anything different I wasn't saying I wasn't
[00:21:12] giving I wasn't lying to the big boss and I wasn't lying to the troops but the the method of
[00:21:18] delivery was different because I was talking to a different audience who understands things differently.
[00:21:26] Good thing to think about you. A couple of these here trial by fire
[00:21:34] there's there's incredible stories inside these books about what men do and they're definitely
[00:21:44] worth look this is another one from we read one from this last time this is from the
[00:21:49] the battle of the at two island which is those allusion islands up in Alaska fight in the Japanese
[00:21:56] this is a citation. The company led by Captain Thomas Biodonol was thrown into confusion by
[00:22:03] the strafing of hostile airplanes while it was forming to attack under heavy enemy ground small
[00:22:08] arms fire seeing the immediate need captain O'Donnell move from his squad from squad to squad
[00:22:13] restoring order and then led his men to the assault during which he received a severe wound in the
[00:22:18] neck and shoulder and was evacuated three days later upon hearing that his company was again
[00:22:22] scheduled to make an attack he insisted upon returning to the fight although we can suffer
[00:22:27] severe pain from his wounds he led his company in attacks on the enemy until five days later when
[00:22:32] he was mortally wounded while moving about into advanced positions encouraging his men
[00:22:42] one of the one of the one of the lessons that I taught specifically I taught it's a little
[00:22:48] bunch of people but the first time I remember teaching if someone was to was to Seth Stone
[00:22:53] the Delta Patoon commander who you know when you're doing immediate action drills
[00:22:57] there's there's standard operating procedures and you follow you follow the standard operating
[00:23:02] procedures and he would you know he would follow what the rules were and that if that meant
[00:23:09] that he was gonna his next position that he was supposed to go to according to the standard
[00:23:15] operating procedures was behind a berm where he couldn't see anything that's where he was going
[00:23:19] and you know I just said hey man why are you going there you know uh because this is where
[00:23:23] we're supposed to go I said can you see anything no can you make a call no can you can you
[00:23:29] lead your men no okay move move around go see what you got to see you can move around you
[00:23:35] you don't you don't you can't break the SOPs there's a difference right you can't break the SOPs
[00:23:41] but you don't have to follow them perfectly so there's a big difference breaking the SOPs
[00:23:46] means you get out of your lane and now you can get shot by friendly fire not following the SOPs
[00:23:50] means you're staying within the confines of the rules but you're still moving around and telling
[00:23:54] people what to do and you can imagine this is a perfect example of what this whole thing started
[00:23:58] off with which is look this guy in order to get his troops to go he had to personally get out
[00:24:04] there and and you know why would you risk your life to him to in that's what it says encourages
[00:24:10] men why would you risk your life to encourage your men you know why because if you don't do that
[00:24:13] your men are going anywhere that's the breaking the inertia you talk about at the beginning
[00:24:17] exactly you don't do that as a leader you're going to sit there anger you're going to you're going to
[00:24:20] eventually you're going to get rolled you're all going to die in that position you cannot stay there
[00:24:24] but the path of the least resistance that human nature is I like this box hole yeah
[00:24:27] it's going to hang out down here this is good for me and he's like no we can't stay here
[00:24:32] and leadership is the only thing that gets people to see that
[00:24:37] that that is that those are the times when you have to lead from the front
[00:24:40] you got to make things happen
[00:24:43] doubling in brass and I have no idea I don't know if there's some weird
[00:24:47] 1940s idiom that I don't know about but this title is sections doubling in brass
[00:24:54] citation 37th division new Georgia while private Blair F. hurts was performing his duties
[00:25:01] with the maintenance section in the vicinity of the unit ration dump they were attacked by
[00:25:06] japs who had surrounded them he grabbed a bar and advanced on a jap machine gun that was
[00:25:11] delivering intense accurate and extremely effective fire into the dump private hurts
[00:25:16] was able to silence this machine gun and then continue to aid aggressively in the defense
[00:25:20] of the position until reinforcements arrived just getting after it just in the rear
[00:25:25] getting after it when the citation starts with the private you know you know this is going to be
[00:25:30] a good one you know he got some yeah you know what's too bad is you know in the navy you have
[00:25:36] rates where you can tell what the guy's job was or this guy's just a private but you know his
[00:25:40] job was probably you know well he says mate his duties with the maintenance section so this guy was
[00:25:46] changing oils and vehicles or something and then all of a sudden he's grabbing a bar and just
[00:25:51] getting some here we go dichotomy of leadership oh no sorry this section we call that it's
[00:25:58] called something else called be brave intelligently this is a weird one to read lieutenant Colonel
[00:26:06] Ariel Bryan cavalry observer with the fifth army and Italy a prisoner of war a German light
[00:26:12] machine gunner asked an interrogator whether Americans took stimulants to make them foolishly brave
[00:26:20] when asked to explain what he meant he stated that he and an assistant gunner were in position
[00:26:25] with a good field of fire one afternoon when a group of American soldiers was observed approaching
[00:26:31] he fired several short bursts and began preparation to displace to the rear when he saw the
[00:26:38] American soldiers rise to full height and start charging toward his position over a hundred yards away
[00:26:45] he reloaded his gun and opened fire killing 11 men he then withdrew because he was sure the
[00:26:51] charge was made to conceal an development but none was made unit commander has found it necessary
[00:26:59] to direct their men to make full use of concealment and covered approach continued emphasis on the
[00:27:04] necessity for dispersion and the use of covering concealment is essential so this is what we
[00:27:10] don't want to have happen we don't want people to be so brave that you charge over an open area
[00:27:15] a machine gun nest and the comment here says in the interest of efficiency bravery must be
[00:27:23] supplemented by brain work dead heroes are of little further used to their units aggressive
[00:27:30] fighting men trained to apply the most efficient technique to combat problems willing to accept
[00:27:35] any necessary risks and conscientiously avoiding unnecessary risks are the backbone of the army
[00:27:45] got to be brave but you got to be smart there's the dichotomy who's the original
[00:27:50] original statement on that was brave but not full hearting brave but not full hearted
[00:27:54] combat in towns as major campaigns develop in western europe combat in towns assumes increasing
[00:28:03] importance cities towns and villages control the established road nets which must be open for the
[00:28:07] movement of guns heavy equipment it supplies necessary to support the advance of infantry
[00:28:12] combat in towns will often be the key not only to our successful advance but to successful defensive
[00:28:19] actions let's talk about now in 1944 attack of towns captain w heherson heherson parachute
[00:28:29] retreat Italy the theory of attack of a small town or villages to work groups around the
[00:28:35] flanks cut the retreat and moving with patrols in this hilly country however we have found that
[00:28:40] where there is any high ground behind the town which dominates both the town and the line of
[00:28:45] retreat the best way is to work the entire force around the town undercover sees the high ground
[00:28:51] in the rear and firmly establish ourselves with 60 millimeter mortars on that dominating high ground
[00:28:56] we take enough food and ammunition for to last us 24 hours and the Germans usually pull out during
[00:29:01] this time from our position we can prevent reinforcement and inflict heavy losses on them during
[00:29:06] there withdrawal so we're flanking people and we're taking high ground
[00:29:09] I didn't think of anything new I didn't think of anything new
[00:29:22] Lieutenant Colonel LG Freeman parachute infantry battalion commander in Italy
[00:29:28] we learned at Altavia to avoid the direct attack of towns it's too costly we now work around
[00:29:36] to the rear with a large force and seize the dominating ground in the rear we did this at Calo
[00:29:41] Machia for Nellie and several other places the names of which I forgot I like when you're just
[00:29:47] forgetting major battles that you've had to work every time get yourself within 60 millimeter
[00:29:52] mortar range of the town on dominating terrain in or near it and the Germans won't stay in it
[00:29:58] and then it says this here's the comment I like these comments the fact that the Germans have been
[00:30:04] known to withdraw without a fight from towns in the rear of which we hold dominating terrain
[00:30:09] does not necessarily mean that such will invariably be the rule however this possibility plus the
[00:30:16] fact the Caesar such high ground will greatly facilitate any subsequent attack on the town
[00:30:21] proper suggest that commanders should give serious consideration of these tactics where the terrain
[00:30:26] permits it also should be remembered that if such high ground is held by the enemy or attack
[00:30:31] on the town proper will invariably be costly and the town itself untenable that's how important
[00:30:38] high ground is. In planning the attack of the town proper the following considerations should
[00:30:44] be born in mind one reduced observation and limited fields of fire in place of heavier stress on
[00:30:53] close combat so you are going to get some to controlling of attacking troops will be difficult
[00:31:00] and much depends on individual initiative and aggressiveness of small unit leaders so there you
[00:31:07] are we we we we open up talking about how you better follow all these orders and now we're on page eight
[00:31:15] and we're talking about hey you know what it depends on the initiative of initiative and aggressiveness
[00:31:22] of small unit leaders making things happen where possible town should be bypassed isolated
[00:31:29] and attacked from the flanks or the rear why are we even attacking this position if we don't have to
[00:31:34] roll around it imagine if you made that part of your everyday sort of scheme maneuver
[00:31:40] I can beat my head against this wall or I can walk around it it seems like a good idea
[00:31:51] at least it seems like a good idea to me I don't know echoes over their shaking I said like
[00:31:54] I know a lot of times when you say every you know you use those what he call those words that are
[00:31:59] real like real permanent yeah like and do that in every thing you know every time you say that I think
[00:32:06] it's triggered I do I took some I took some heat off of by saying it seems like yeah that would be a
[00:32:12] good thing to do in part of your everyday plan yeah then that's what kind of triggered me so to think like
[00:32:18] of all the things that it probably or maybe wouldn't work yeah I don't know would you treat your
[00:32:24] workouts like that let me sidestep this workout maybe flank it you're on dangerous ground right now
[00:32:34] yes there's going to you're potentially right about that I'm just saying usually when it
[00:32:39] comes to work out I'm going to smash the workout it's based it you know I'm going to go ahead
[00:32:43] on full frontal assault yes sir well I thought would think so anyway unless that make us it depends on
[00:32:48] what you mean by flank like I guess you could flank your initial feelings about the income and
[00:32:54] workout if you don't feel like doing it you know you could maybe maneuver that way maybe but
[00:33:00] maybe maybe not I don't know maybe just direct assault workout smash it get it done I like it
[00:33:06] there are times there are times so maybe not everything in life you know maybe not everything
[00:33:12] yeah but maybe if you're dealing with other people it's a good call yeah that could be the case
[00:33:19] this section here start talking about like how you actually clear towns it goes through
[00:33:24] and then it gets to a point where it starts just telling the comments about the story so I'm not
[00:33:29] going to dump into the story you're not going to go deep into the story here but just some of the
[00:33:33] comments here about the defense of a town the defense of a town must be prepared to meet the
[00:33:37] methods of attack which may be employed by the enemy since this must include the possibility of
[00:33:42] flanking attacks and encirclement it follows that an all-around defense must be the rule the following
[00:33:48] points not covered in the experience quoted above which is the one that I didn't read which
[00:33:52] why you should read these things yourself should be born in mind in planning the defense of a town
[00:33:58] one avoid if possible placing principal centers of resistance close to landmarks or at the edge of
[00:34:04] a town where the enemy adjustment of artillery or mortar fire will be facilitated positions either
[00:34:10] outside or within the town should be chosen and I read this whole section to read this and it's
[00:34:19] something that we talked about the other day on EF online and I don't know if you were if you
[00:34:22] were we on the call and I talked about don't give away your position yes yeah totally I went into a whole
[00:34:26] whole explanation of not giving away your position and it's weird it's weird thing to talk about
[00:34:35] because it seems real sneaky right it seems real like oh it seems real sneaky especially when people
[00:34:42] love so much to talk about like being transparent but here's the deal if you have an idea Dave
[00:34:50] and I have my own idea if I just put my stake in the ground and say my idea is this I'm giving away
[00:34:58] my position now if we were going to go a tack of an enemy outpost I would do everything I possibly
[00:35:04] could to avoid giving away my position because once I give away my position it will now you know
[00:35:09] to where to attack me on so what I would rather do is listen to what you have to say here let let me
[00:35:17] understand what your position is because then it allows me to maneuver and change my position
[00:35:25] and also if you're on offensive person and your ego is out of control as soon as you see my
[00:35:31] position guess what you're going to do attack it so I gave you my position now you're going to
[00:35:35] attack it now what do I do then dig in now what do we have a standoff we have extra casualties we
[00:35:41] don't need so why am I giving away my position when I'm having a conversation and this is it's one
[00:35:47] of those things it sounds so manipulative right but then I took a little bit further on the F online
[00:35:55] I said this is the facts the reason I don't give away my position is because I don't actually have
[00:36:03] one I'm not rolling in there thinking that I know everything I'm thinking I may have some ideas that
[00:36:11] could you might be able to calculate an estimate approximate where I am but I'm not going to go in
[00:36:16] there and say Dave I believe this because not not just because I want to hide it from you that's not why
[00:36:24] it's because I actually question my own beliefs I actually am not looking at you thinking I know the
[00:36:32] best thing to do I've got some ideas but you can't lock down my position because I'm not going to
[00:36:38] stay there I'm not digging in being transparent this authenticity doesn't have to be in
[00:36:46] opposition to what we just described either being transparent could be hey I'm going to I'm going to
[00:36:52] have a conversation to tell you a whole bunch of things that I'm thinking about that are things
[00:36:56] for you to consider as well for me maybe thinking what I don't want to do is sit here and go
[00:37:00] hey you've mentioned three things that are really feel like I want to give you feedback on but I don't
[00:37:04] want to tell you those things for whatever reason being transparent is not the same is digging your
[00:37:10] heels in those the authenticity of that there's this you would know this echo there's this social
[00:37:17] media thing we're like somebody says some statement it's like a meme and then it says prove me wrong
[00:37:22] it'll say like Martians colonized the moon proved me wrong or louder with crowd or situation
[00:37:28] whatever I don't I I should know more about it no you probably know enough but there's this little
[00:37:33] you know what kind of underneath that is this idea like you're not going to change my mind
[00:37:39] I know that you're not going to change my mind I'm being fully transparent here this idea of
[00:37:43] transparency doesn't have to be the opposite of what you just described you can be fully transparent
[00:37:50] and if I actually my relationship is strong enough with you you know what you're going to do when
[00:37:53] I'm being transparent you're going to listen to me and then you're going to come back with some
[00:37:56] things that's a good point and then actually together what will happen is we'll come up with the
[00:38:00] right plan and then we'll go execute it and it'll be awesome yeah the idea of not giving away
[00:38:04] your position you don't give it away not because you did not because you're hiding it it's because
[00:38:08] you're truly don't know you don't lock yourself into it so I'm not walking in the conversations
[00:38:13] I know what to do not doing that and if you if you're in a leadership role if you're in an actual
[00:38:20] leadership role how much do you think your people really want to engage with you if you
[00:38:24] announce your position out of the gate what's the chances of them giving you great feedback
[00:38:30] you can transparent yeah yeah how does that encourage transparency from the troops answer
[00:38:36] it doesn't well and if it does hey Dave that sounds a great idea I fully support your idea
[00:38:40] you're so smart yeah which is the last thing you want is a leader to be told how smart you are
[00:38:44] by your support it's you want to be told hey I don't agree with you a great tell me why
[00:38:49] where practical forms salience by organizing outlying buildings to cover perimeter
[00:39:01] of town with flanking and an unfulfilled fire I had to look up the word salience
[00:39:07] I said I didn't know what it meant it's like a little projection that's sticking out
[00:39:12] of the battle line so you in order to get a little better cover you can you can take an outline
[00:39:17] building and you can set up a kind of a a fort there good now a salient yeah form salience
[00:39:25] because there's a word salient right yeah it means like significant or what does that mean
[00:39:29] I think it's like a clear point yeah which is the the other it's the same thing right a clear point
[00:39:35] well here I am making this it's a couple of projections a point something sticks out
[00:39:39] that was a salient point yeah meaning oh yeah I rose a good point I understand what you said
[00:39:44] oh we built a salient out there what's a little point where we've got the solid coverage
[00:39:51] kind of like monolithic kind of same deal yeah I guess kind of kind of the same deal like
[00:39:57] there's a monolith which is the noun version of monolithic kind of kind of thing
[00:40:04] yes there are all kinds of words that are based on other words hey I'm just trying to understand
[00:40:08] real deal yeah everyone's while echo says something and then once he says he writes down a little
[00:40:14] note and that means he's gonna go back and edit himself out I don't know if that made the list I think
[00:40:19] he's gonna hold it I think he's going strong no hey made that it'll probably help some people
[00:40:23] as far as salient and salient goes yeah and and also help people realize that there are multiple
[00:40:30] versions of the same words in the world yes it's sure oh my jerk that too is sure in addition to a
[00:40:39] central reserve within the town provide if possible for a concealed mobile reserve preferably
[00:40:45] strong and armor to be held outside the town to counter enemy flanking maneuver and once again what
[00:40:51] is the root of that right there don't give away your position the root of it is hey hide this element
[00:40:56] which is smart keep it mobile wherever adjacent terrain features dominate the town they should
[00:41:04] be secured obviously this use of high ground maybe key to successful defense that's funny they
[00:41:11] they say dominant terrain and then they just call it high ground within the town the construction
[00:41:16] of street obstacles or barricades to impede enemy movements and the organization of groups
[00:41:20] of buildings into strong points should be carried out as extensively as time available will permit
[00:41:28] strength in your defenses in delaying actions the defensive use of towns will prevent the
[00:41:32] attacker from determining the strength of the opposing of the forces opposing him it is not
[00:41:37] normally advisable to organize a town as an isolated strong point except under terrain conditions
[00:41:43] which prevent the enemy bypassing it so don't stick a town out there on its own don't stick
[00:41:49] anyone out there on their own unless the terrain allows it so then there's a um i didn't cover one of
[00:42:00] these one of these sections but this one when i started reading it and as i read through it i
[00:42:06] said myself this is such a great example of simplicity and the way this this battalion attack
[00:42:14] happens and then the way it gets debriefed is all very interesting so i'm going to burn through this real
[00:42:19] quick mission is a battalion attack in Italy mission lieutenant colonel Earl Taylor infantry battalion
[00:42:25] commander in Italy on october on eleven october my battalion was ordered to make a night march
[00:42:30] passed through the second battalion which was about three miles east of the Italian town of Guadilla
[00:42:37] north of the color river and seize the high ground in the vicinity of Guadilla we were then
[00:42:43] to continue the advance contact as we approach Guadilla our leading company made contact with the
[00:42:50] enemy at a and there's a sketch that they go through this it developed with one platoon was
[00:42:55] stopped by heavy machine gun and direct 88 millimeter fire from point E f and D and was unable to advance
[00:43:02] i immediately move to the high ground so basically they get into a big gunfight
[00:43:07] and they can't they can't move forward and here's here's what i like i immediately move to the
[00:43:12] high ground 200 yards north where i could observe the enemy position so right now we have observed
[00:43:20] happening getting on the high ground love that observe what's he doing why's he observing well
[00:43:25] because he's got to figure out what to do now he gets up in this observation position
[00:43:31] and he says the enemy had all of the high ground to the front and i could see it would be impossible
[00:43:36] to advance frontally so what does that mean now he's orienting himself to the situation
[00:43:43] oh the enemy's got all this high ground up here i can't advance friendly so then was it
[00:43:47] you do so i decided to make a double involvement sending company i over the hill to the right
[00:43:55] and company k on a wide left development contact was to be maintained visually so there's the action
[00:44:02] he's at that that's it's actually happening so he goes through the loop in like four sentences which is totally
[00:44:07] legit
[00:44:10] base of fire five tanks were available for the attack realizing that the tanks could not move
[00:44:14] down the road to guardia which is the only tank approach due to the streams and high mountains
[00:44:18] and because the enemy had eighty-eighths and armored cars at f i decided to do in place the tanks
[00:44:22] along with my eight heavy machine guns and six eighty-one millimeter motors as shown in the sketch
[00:44:27] results the attack was successful by order the tanks and other supporting weapons opened fire five
[00:44:35] minutes before company l started its defense that is called cover move we got tanks and and supporting
[00:44:40] weapons firing and then company l starts their move after five minutes 15 prisoners were captured
[00:44:46] 25 enemy killed our casualties were approximately ten killed and fifteen wounded
[00:44:50] which when you think about the assault on a you know in an urban environment you're going to take
[00:44:57] some casualties and those are certainly some casualties but those are not as bad as you might
[00:45:04] imagine going into a city when you consider the fact that if you don't know anything about urban combat
[00:45:09] one enemy with a machine gun can kill dozens and dozens of troops
[00:45:16] the enemy strength as determined from prisoners was two rifle companies each reinforced
[00:45:25] supported by tanks armored cars eighty-eighths along the road these prisoners stated that their
[00:45:29] force was so completely disorganized and demoralized by our volume of fire that and scheme of attack
[00:45:35] that was impossible for them to make a counterattack and regain their positions planning it
[00:45:40] took about two hours to make plans for this attack which was very carefully studied planned and coordinated
[00:45:45] it's funny it's sometimes the US military spends months making plans for an attack and and
[00:45:53] he said this took two hours but it was carefully studied planned and coordinated that's what
[00:45:57] he needed was a solid two hours it effectively you utilize the train features every weapon
[00:46:02] available to the battalion was used in such an attack maps must be pure range with critical points
[00:46:06] in phase lines once the attack has started the basic plan cannot be changed it must succeed that's
[00:46:13] an interesting statement and I think the word that I underland was basic you're not your head Dave like
[00:46:21] yeah my immediate reaction is must not be changed I get a like a sense of like well that's
[00:46:27] that but yeah you're right the basic plan of basic doesn't say we can't change so
[00:46:31] rather than sort of get all excited that he says he can't change the thing is to he's right
[00:46:36] especially at night and when you look at this whole situation you actually want to limit
[00:46:41] the amount of replanting a recoil you want to limit a lot of things now not the individual
[00:46:47] actions of the teams of maneuvering and things like that and let them make the adjustments but
[00:46:51] you don't want one element to go you know what let's cancel the development and just do something
[00:46:56] different and abandon your portion of the plane you actually can't do that so you actually need to
[00:47:00] keep the basic plan that that clarity actually made a lot of stuff yeah one word yeah that one
[00:47:05] word makes a big difference when you start thinking about what they're doing you've got what is
[00:47:09] an eight heavy machine guns since those guys are doing a fire a fire mission on this town for
[00:47:16] five minutes before you enter the town that's coordination you can't start thinking well you know
[00:47:21] I think I'm gonna go earlier whatever it is your the basic plan you got to stick with that basic plan
[00:47:26] then I this is something that I lived by if I if it was possible to stick with the basic plan
[00:47:35] I was sticking with the basic plan like it would have to be something really now we would have a
[00:47:40] contingency plan hey but if I could avoid using the contingency plan I would stick with the basic plan
[00:47:47] that we we we we rehearsed and we would rehearse the contingency too but yeah people expect what they're
[00:47:52] going to be doing we had the exact same philosophy we we had contingency plans but the part of that
[00:47:58] that made that possible is our plans were usually really fluid yeah some key limits you had some
[00:48:06] limiting decisions inside there but our plans weren't hyper detailed and super down to the
[00:48:11] so you could stick to the basic plan we used to have just a joke stick to the plan that was what we
[00:48:15] always said like what what did he do just stick to the plan that didn't mean you don't think you don't
[00:48:19] just make changes but the idea that what we planned and how we coordinated stick to that and then
[00:48:25] make smart decisions along the way to reinforce that as opposed to you get halfway there and then
[00:48:30] hey no we should do we should come up with a new plan like there's no time to come up with a new plan
[00:48:34] once you cross the line of departure you kind of need to stick to the plan the basic plan which
[00:48:38] also drove our plans to be basic we had very basic big picture plans yeah simple and flexible
[00:48:45] if you know if the three of us were going to go and take down a building and we say okay here's the
[00:48:52] way it's going to go once we get to the front door echo you're going to open the door
[00:48:58] Dave you're going to go left I'm going to go right and then echo you're going to go left and we
[00:49:03] okay and we rehearse that 10 times I promise you that as we approach that building there's going to be
[00:49:10] a civilian in the front yard that echoes going to have to deal with and all of a sudden that
[00:49:13] whole plan is out the window so you can't go to that level of detail and you definitely need to have
[00:49:19] flexibility there but the basic plan of hey we're going to approach the building totally that's not
[00:49:23] going to change because we know where the fire sport is it's set or a set or a set or
[00:49:28] estimating the situation in planning should be emphasized in training comment and this was I found
[00:49:33] this interesting too this account is a good example of fire movement on the batailing the
[00:49:40] I have no idea I guess I guess I got it from Roger Hayden why why I use the term cover move instead
[00:49:45] of fire movement because of the same thing but I same thing cover move and fire movement are the
[00:49:52] same thing this account at least as far as I know is it am I am I missing something I don't think so
[00:49:57] we use the term fire maneuver yeah that was the one element moves one element covers and I think
[00:50:03] it's anonymous yeah yeah however it should be pointed out that a double development is a rather
[00:50:09] ambitious scheme of maneuver for a single battalion and should be used with caution and I love
[00:50:13] seeing that because what you're talking about echo Charles is you're talking about a double
[00:50:21] development you're basically surrounding a target which means you got good guys on the flanks
[00:50:30] of bad guys and if you start shooting at the bad guys in the middle you can shoot yourself
[00:50:34] and it's really problematic the the thing about this and there would be occasional
[00:50:40] seal platoons it would go yeah we're gonna just surround the target it works when nothing goes wrong
[00:50:47] it works when the enemy doesn't start shooting it works if you have on the positive side it
[00:50:52] works if you have a terrain feature that prevents friendly fire which is possible you can have a
[00:50:57] you know a ravine that allows you to be in a certain position but when you when you do these
[00:51:05] battalion sized operations you're actually getting out of the you should be moving outside the
[00:51:10] range of your own weapons which is what the goal is right you know we're really far away and
[00:51:16] and as long as we are shooting our weapons at the enemy there's a very small chance that
[00:51:21] our weapons are gonna hit our friendly forces so be very careful about double development
[00:51:30] and same thing with going to an enemy's rear like if you're gonna do that
[00:51:34] well then you've got to pay attention to how that's gonna work out it is a lot harder than it looks
[00:51:40] no mention is made of the Constitution of a reserve force such a reserve must be retained under
[00:51:46] the control of the commander to enable to counter unforeseen enemy reaction as the attack progresses
[00:51:52] troops committed to a plan of action cannot be considered as available for this purpose
[00:51:57] the division of the battalion into a into approximately three equal attack forces is open
[00:52:04] a criticism but it worked in this case a schema maneuver should include a determination of the
[00:52:12] direction of the main effort and the provonorance of the force should be available to support this effort
[00:52:17] here's an interesting story so one of the great tactical lessons learned of my life which I learned
[00:52:24] and training when you so we would set up you know to do target assaults typical does any army manual
[00:52:32] any any marine corps manual of how you do a target assault you know you set up a base element
[00:52:36] and a maneuver element so the base element is gonna engage the target it gets in position
[00:52:41] and it shoots at the target once it's shot at the target for a certain amount of time
[00:52:45] the assault element then gets up and maneuvers towards the target when they get to a certain
[00:52:50] point the people shooting at the target shift fire off the target but they keep shooting and eventually
[00:52:55] they move the assault team moves through the target and I was watching a young junior officer
[00:53:04] I was in training at Celtine 1 and he he said okay what we're gonna do is for our base element
[00:53:09] that's gonna do all the shooting at the target area what we're gonna do is we're gonna take our
[00:53:13] machine gunners from the other from the assault element who asked to move we're gonna move
[00:53:20] the machine gunners into the base element we're gonna take some of the riflemen and put them in
[00:53:22] the assault elements so they can move easier and they can get through the target and I said
[00:53:26] that's thinking myself that's pretty smart smart guy is gonna get a really strong base element
[00:53:31] Vietnam vet said what are you doing he said well you know you know master she if I'm gonna
[00:53:38] go ahead and put heavy or stronger base over here and the machine gun element and put all my
[00:53:42] machine guns over in the base element and I'm like I can already tell I'm glad I didn't
[00:53:46] come up with this plan but why is that you know he says well because I want to have more
[00:53:53] machine guns I want to have more firepower in my base element and then the the mask
[00:53:58] shooting one question said what happens if the assault element gets compromised on the way in
[00:54:07] end of discussion because now we don't have any machine guns and and by the way what should
[00:54:12] happen is if we have machine guns in the assault element the assault element just became
[00:54:16] the base element that's what just happened so and and the thing that the other lesson that I
[00:54:22] learned from that was that what you really get to do the other benefit which I actually would
[00:54:28] say isn't even bigger benefit is we have unit integrity which I love unit integrity that squad
[00:54:34] or that platoon's always working together the machine gunners are there they can break off they
[00:54:38] can assault things they can do all kinds of things where when you pull those machine gunners out
[00:54:42] they're not they're way less capable so apply that to your business to your team how do we keep
[00:54:52] the teams together how do we keep the teams together how do we keep them both how do we keep
[00:54:59] them most capable that's what we want to do setting up a little specialty moments is a risky call
[00:55:09] factors contributing to the success in this attack were prompt estimate of the situation by the
[00:55:15] commander including a study of the terrain based on personal reconnaissance development of a
[00:55:20] definite plan of maneuver based on the seizure of key terrain and outflanking enemy position
[00:55:25] detail planning of specific orders utilization of maximum firepower where available maintenance
[00:55:31] of control over the elements little section here on fighting and wooded terrain lieutenant
[00:55:37] Colonel F.L. Walker infantry battalion commander Italy the area in which my battalion operated
[00:55:43] was covered in thick scrub trees and fruit orchards interspersed with frequent farmhouses many
[00:55:49] stone walls six to eight feet in height and numerous sunken roads field of fire was greatly restricted
[00:55:55] average observation was only 52 hundred yards enemy delaying groups with machine guns were widely
[00:56:01] scattered and impossible locate until arrival within a hundred yards or less it was found necessary
[00:56:08] to place heavy weapons out in the front line or very close up to avoid hitting our troops
[00:56:13] after encountering hostile fire was found very effective to spray the entire woods ahead with a
[00:56:19] massive concentration of mortar machine gunfire for about one minute followed by a rapid advance of
[00:56:23] rifle platoons under a salt fire to cover all the trees and house windows where snipers might
[00:56:29] be hiding in each case Germans pulled out rapidly leaving weapons and ammunition behind
[00:56:33] although we had been unable to locate them previously however the tendency of troops
[00:56:39] is to wait for definitely located targets before they will open fire which results in allowing
[00:56:45] very small groups of enemy to shift position frequently and keep up a demoralizing rate of
[00:56:51] machine gunfire to cause a great delay the continuous rapid fire delivered by our heavy
[00:56:57] machine guns had a particularly demoralizing effect on the Germans. The remarks of this
[00:57:05] battalion commander emphasized the importance of barrage covering fire the fire power of available
[00:57:10] weapons in this instance substitute for our artillery but roge but the principle remains the same
[00:57:16] cover move losses will be minimized by following closely the mass fires of available weapons
[00:57:21] delivered in areas from which enemy fire is expected I think the enemy might be there on
[00:57:28] putting rounds into it and it's an interesting how that one dynamic think about that learn that lesson
[00:57:35] learned of realizing hey what we need to do is lay down heavy fire where every we think there
[00:57:43] might be enemy and push forward as quickly as we can think about that lesson learned think
[00:57:49] about the first time and happens the first time and happens you're like oh where are they where
[00:57:52] are they no one shooting and then someone goes hey put out fire and advance
[00:57:58] guys start laying down fire and they start laying down fire where they think there's enemy
[00:58:03] and then that allows you to get the enemies heads down because they are somewhere out there
[00:58:07] and you get their heads down and now you're maneuvering and when you're maneuvering they're not
[00:58:10] and now you win but can you imagine that that's a little bit off of our instinct right as a human
[00:58:17] if you don't if you don't if you don't get trained that way your instinct is not hey I'm just
[00:58:22] gonna shoot where I think there's bad guys I'm gonna shoot not a little dark corner over there I'm
[00:58:25] gonna shoot not window over there I'm gonna shoot near that stone wall over there you haven't seen one
[00:58:29] enemy but that's where you're shooting and now you have a whole company of soldiers doing that that's
[00:58:34] a lot of firepower going down range and it allows you to move because somewhere in one of those positions
[00:58:38] there was enemy but think about what it took to learn that lesson and how valuable that lesson
[00:58:45] right there is to be able to tell people and it also talks about the importance of speed which is the
[00:58:51] next note regimental commander infantry Sicily I believe that the individual soldier now realizes
[00:58:58] that a relentless steady advance saves casualties and that he is now imbued with the knowledge of the
[00:59:05] importance of speed every man in this regiment is firmly convinced that the speed of our recent
[00:59:10] operations saved us from huge losses down to the lowest private the feeling exists that we would still
[00:59:17] be at can of saudi if we had not pushed the enemy off balance and kept in that way
[00:59:29] you know how often are we sitting there waiting for the perfect plan the perfect whatever
[00:59:34] on what we should be doing is moving right you you want to just bring this down to work and
[00:59:38] now echo Charles since that seems to be your main you know topic for the day yeah cool yes so
[00:59:45] let's look at two options one alright what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go research on the internet
[00:59:50] you know what the max time under load I need to do for this particular workout right time under tension
[00:59:56] you love a mobile right become up with a my periodicity for my periodization my periodization
[01:00:04] for my workouts right all these things that you could spend two hours to research and then writing
[01:00:10] and mapping out or you could go do a bunch of clean and jerks just go yeah there isn't
[01:00:16] advantage to doing clean and jerks look I'm not saying you got to be an idiot no but there are
[01:00:21] some some positive things to just going yes and keeping moving and firing where you think it might
[01:00:28] hey I don't know about the the the the internal bicep hand or whatever the break you'll
[01:00:38] head of the bicep which I know you probably got some little high tuned exercise in short
[01:00:44] hands yeah there you go see you do certain types of curls with the easy part of hit that target right
[01:00:51] whereas you could just say hey let's face it go do some curls right yeah actually you're right
[01:00:56] I actually agree with the hundred percent I agree with that philosophy in working out yeah I mean
[01:01:00] there's a couple of things you want to know otherwise you're just kind of you know moving around
[01:01:04] with with no specific direction which I you know teach their own but yeah I think that actually
[01:01:11] is a very good analogy you know you see sort out what am I trying to do here um get a few basic methods
[01:01:18] on try to you know how to achieve it and this go especially when you start coupling that attitude
[01:01:24] with the fact that we don't want to move in the first place right that inertia we're just trying
[01:01:29] to stay still and now we can we can we can focus on that by just doing a bunch of planning like
[01:01:35] hey I'm just waiting to see where the bad guys are I'm just waiting no freaking lay down fire
[01:01:40] that's that's the way you wake up in the morning you wake up in the morning saying I'm
[01:01:44] going to put down fire that's what I'm doing yeah you're right about that too how you you're
[01:01:51] like oh wait let me try to remember what I was going to do today and be like well I
[01:01:56] should maybe she did because tomorrow I'm going to do this so maybe I shouldn't do this you know
[01:02:00] I shouldn't do it that hard or and you know and you've spent all this time and then it's like well
[01:02:05] shoot if I do the whole workout now shoot dinners like in like 45 minutes so maybe I should
[01:02:12] I don't know what you're just saying depends on when you work out I guess true and you know
[01:02:16] not in your case for sure maybe you're breakfast or whatever but yeah and then you're like oh that's
[01:02:21] 45 minutes that only gives me like 10 minutes to work like or one minute to warm up and maybe
[01:02:26] I mean I might just do this tomorrow that way I could get the whole thing done you see them saying
[01:02:30] then yeah brother all that planning not only did it not a lot of that not matter
[01:02:34] meanwhile weakness is winning in your body mean what weakness is winning man and then there's that
[01:02:39] I do avoid yeah is that I think it was you we talked about I don't know whatever but yeah
[01:02:45] when you let the weakness creep in you give that weakness a precedent you know so the
[01:02:49] the weakness is sort of like oh yeah I kind of approved my my my my presence kind of thing
[01:02:54] I was talking about this on a year phone line the other day I I've been doing this lately in my head
[01:03:01] so and I haven't quite figured out what this means but I know it's been very functional
[01:03:06] when you have like an option of doing a bad thing or just not doing the bad thing that reaction
[01:03:20] of just not doing the bad thing isn't strong enough I've actually been trying to do something good
[01:03:26] okay does that make sense I think let me let me get some example oh there's a donut over there
[01:03:32] you know what I'm not gonna eat the donut that's not strong enough not not only may not
[01:03:38] gonna eat the donut I'm actually gonna go and do 20 burpees yeah and you know it doesn't even
[01:03:45] have to be extreme because guess what you you're working or whatever and just like I just want
[01:03:48] to have a no no no I'm not gonna eat that donut and you know what I'm gonna do I'm gonna go and
[01:03:53] get my desk cleared off right now yeah kind of see yeah doing something but actually proactive
[01:03:59] to crush to crush that weakness that's wanting to grab it just it's like if you it's like you know
[01:04:10] if I say hey echo echo you know you you want to you want to come by my house and
[01:04:17] and grill up some steaks and let's say you don't really feel like doing it and so you're like well
[01:04:23] you know what I mean I'm gonna pressure you but if you're like negative I'm already doing something
[01:04:27] I'm like okay that case closed right case closed you already want yeah so I'm just saying going a
[01:04:32] little bit harder at the weakness yeah it's a little trend I've been right now yeah and that and that
[01:04:37] works I mean it depends on what you mean by works but that's a good move that's like yeah you know
[01:04:41] like yeah I'm about to like okay I have burpees at the end of this workout I've finished the
[01:04:47] work I work out with hundred burpees we'll say I'll be like man now workout was pretty solid you
[01:04:53] know I don't know about those burpees you know let's we'll do those burpees another time we're
[01:04:57] gonna skip the burpees is what we're gonna do then this comes time to skip the point you're like you
[01:05:01] know what no hundred fifty or two hundred now just for thinking that you know oh yeah you're going
[01:05:07] hard on weakness yes that's a positive that I think you're right I'm gonna start like this
[01:05:11] this ties in for me I'm gonna start laying down fire I'm gonna start being even more proactive
[01:05:16] I start seeing weakness I'm laying down fire I'm putting my buttons of morgue around so bad stuff
[01:05:21] you know what you write down Dave I think we went so far away from whatever I'm not sure I can
[01:05:28] bring us back we're talking about burpees and bicep levels bro you talked about bias before so
[01:05:36] actually it might be a little connection if we think about it first I mean you were talking about
[01:05:40] well you actually weren't talking about bias I had the word bias in my mind when we had a plan
[01:05:45] hey we're gonna go to the building you're gonna go to the the East Airwell you're gonna go to the
[01:05:48] West and hey we that might not happen we might have to do something different we used to brief
[01:05:52] gun on missions these general missions like hey all things being equal I want you to bias to the
[01:05:57] South and if you know we get additional pressure you're gonna be the the element that biases
[01:06:02] to the South now look something may come up where you can't do that and that's fine you may go to
[01:06:05] the North go ahead let me know but our plan is that all things being equal we're gonna bias in this
[01:06:12] direction which allows you to keep my plans like really general yeah that's about this general
[01:06:16] yeah and it's but it's it's not completely like out and nowhere we don't have some idea but
[01:06:22] it's like hey these are the things we're anticipating and all things being equal I want you were
[01:06:27] we were talking about the the inertia thing which is kind of bugged me from the beginning but I
[01:06:34] actually was thinking about as you were saying it is you know he's talking about like the laws
[01:06:39] of physics whereas objects in at rest tend to stay at rest and objects in motion tend to stay
[01:06:45] in motion and the hard part is getting the the staying at rest and getting it to the motion like
[01:06:51] once you get the motion going actually it's not that hard to keep it going it's the friction of
[01:06:56] doing nothing and is that connection you look you said I know you didn't invent it but this idea
[01:07:01] of default aggressive this bias for doing something is the hardest thing to get which is
[01:07:07] the natural bias of doing something and when you made that comment about when I see weakness
[01:07:13] or I feel weakness the natural bias is oh no I'm not going to give into that weakness
[01:07:20] I'm going to do nothing which everyone's like that's the win and you're like no actually
[01:07:23] that's not the win the win is not to do nothing no is it better than anything you don't it yes
[01:07:30] but we're not here to just not eat donuts that's not the game we're playing over here the game
[01:07:34] we're playing is just not to eat the donuts and he started the very first thing is leadership
[01:07:40] versus inertia it's that how hard is it to get the movement to do something but once you have
[01:07:47] that bias that bias to maneuver and that starts not that hard it actually gets easier every
[01:07:56] single time so that's my connection to things you were saying and yeah I'm going to let you guys
[01:08:01] talk about what it is you talk about but that's what I was thinking about is that what that bias really
[01:08:05] means to tie back to the very first thing that I kind of thought about was like what did you talk about
[01:08:09] because I think inertia is movement and inertia is not movement it's just the state that you're in
[01:08:13] inertia could be doing nothing and that's what you're talking about it's breaking out of that
[01:08:17] and the bias to move which is the the most challenging thing yeah I talk about pushing a train
[01:08:24] you know and I was like hey if you're going to push your train the first getting that thing to
[01:08:29] start moving is the hardest part and you start pushing you push you push and it eventually
[01:08:35] starts to move a little bit and then you get to a point if you keep pushing that thing where you can
[01:08:40] actually like grab onto the railing and hang on for a second it's just going to keep going you
[01:08:44] started it when you were talking about blast and rocket ship out of here exactly you can actually
[01:08:48] use 90% of your effort to get that in your need you don't need 90% you can coast the rest of the
[01:08:55] way once you break free of that gravitational force of like literally I'm just going to I'm just
[01:09:01] on the train now yeah now look if you can just jump on a speeding train go for it but most of us most
[01:09:06] people have to actually get that train from a dead stop and move it yeah you've ever seen those guys
[01:09:11] roll up a frying pan like a piece of paper I think I think that's like the the method
[01:09:19] really yeah like you hit it like real hard of that initial button then it like heats up the
[01:09:23] molecule so it becomes more yeah in some mistaken unless I got tricked or something like that
[01:09:29] and it's one big trick but I'm pretty sure that the cause it's always a strong man right
[01:09:34] strongman it's the week and rolling up a frying pan I'll tell you that but it's usually like a
[01:09:40] feet of strength so now I wonder if it's like you're seeming to bring it some sort of molecular
[01:09:46] level which I'm not sure about that was the explanation for real they're like this is the trick
[01:09:52] this is how you do it you know what I do not know if you're right and I do not know if you are wrong
[01:09:57] I'm gonna just leave it hanging and people will let us know and we will get someone with a frying pan
[01:10:02] posting it and telling us hey echo Charles is 100% right or echo Charles
[01:10:09] Bruce Hans the most likely outcome of this is either of those it's bro echo talking about frying
[01:10:17] pans when we're talking about combat that's the most likely out of the concept and everywhere there's
[01:10:22] so much I can do to keep us on topic here echo I'm just saying if you can work with a frying pan
[01:10:26] brats good and rocket ships and whatnot it can work with like every day stuff and I actually think
[01:10:31] echo is the premier example in the world premier example of in the world in the entire world of
[01:10:39] if you know the way bro you see it and all things you're seeing combat in a frying pan
[01:10:43] yeah these these ideas are everywhere but there was uh the well it's far as feet of strength go
[01:10:49] there's the ripping the phone book one yeah right I think there's a little trick there's an
[01:10:52] one you got like unbunch and we're bunching but I think your point is that that initial the initial
[01:10:57] break is the hard part is hard part so that's where you use technique roll roll okay how it
[01:11:04] went was the the curling up of the frying pan how it's explained is you hit it with that first
[01:11:10] force of the rolling action but you just can't like you can't hit one and then re-grip and hit
[01:11:17] another one it's not like that you gotta hit it once and just keep keep going don't let like the
[01:11:21] momentum stop because the molecules are still heated up for that moment it's a more malleable
[01:11:28] whatever that's how it was explained to me we're gonna look at that you're going out on the limb I
[01:11:33] like you you got no problem taking risk I like the way you will next one the herd instinct major
[01:11:38] Robert Wilson observer with the at exhibition they don't name the division and Italy our troops
[01:11:44] echoes taking a note maybe he's concerned that's getting edited oh you're going strong no you're
[01:11:49] all good our troops showed a decided tendency to bunch up under fire this was observed on
[01:11:55] several occasions one prisoner war a German forward observer from 88 millimeter battery
[01:12:00] was interrogated concerning his technique of adjustment it seems he had been told that American
[01:12:04] troops congregated one under fire when he saw American troops advancing he would call for one or two
[01:12:09] rounds in their vicinity and observe the area where they congregated fire was then shifted to that
[01:12:16] area the prisoner stated that he conducted very effective fire in this way in several occasions on
[01:12:20] Italy don't bunch up don't bunch up leaders of strategy and tactics talk about this
[01:12:26] one of my leadership perspective let the leader lead you don't need to jump in there and crowd
[01:12:31] the leader everyone could get no dilatary let me tell you my opinion listen what the malle's has to
[01:12:36] say if you want some suggestions give it to them don't crowd don't bunch up base of fire lieutenant
[01:12:42] Colonel jm fan infantry battalion commander it was found that so long as japs could keep us
[01:12:50] ducking from aimed fire their position remained secure but once the jap was made to keep his head
[01:12:56] down in the Americans could get to his feet in attack there's merely a matter of walking up
[01:13:00] the position in tossing ingrown aids to make this possible require the coordination of fires down
[01:13:06] to an including the riflemen it is important that commanders and leaders realize this otherwise
[01:13:11] troops were remained down when it's not necessary so amazing it's so amazing cover move teamwork
[01:13:21] down to the lowest level yeah and I just said teamwork and guess what the next section's called
[01:13:27] and I did not look at this the next section of teamwork we would have a riflemen point out a pill
[01:13:32] box using tracer ammunition then a 37 millimeter gun would take them under fire with high explosives
[01:13:37] oftentimes a pill box crew to tempt to evacuate to a safer place and the light machine gun would
[01:13:41] mode them down isn't it interesting when we talk about teamwork and we talk about cover move
[01:13:49] the reason that it is such an incredible metaphor is because if you don't cover and move you don't
[01:13:58] win it's as simple as that if you don't have one element that's shooting at the japones
[01:14:04] while the other element is walking up and if you don't do that you lose that's what happens you lose
[01:14:09] if you do that you win if you work together as a team you win here's Lieutenant Colonel TF Boger
[01:14:22] infantry officer Italy one night in the vicinity of avalino the batina established an outpost line
[01:14:29] around the high ground to the northeast city patrols were ordered up several roads leading out of the
[01:14:34] city all company commanders were informed of the dispositions the patrols were now before the
[01:14:39] outposts were posted a few hours later firing was heard at the batina cp which increased in tempo
[01:14:45] and kept up most of the night soon reports were sent that sent in that German patrols were operating
[01:14:52] in front of the outposts I'm sure you all know let's come in next morning it became apparent that
[01:14:57] our own patrols had been fired on as they attempted to return to the outpost line comment the constant
[01:15:04] recurrence of such reports indicates the necessity for closer coordination of patrol activity
[01:15:10] with the outposts of with the outpost system positive steps must be taken to ensure that the roots
[01:15:16] of returning patrols are known to the outposts and that recognition signals are arranged
[01:15:23] blue on blue no one thinks it's gonna happen no one thinks it's gonna happen
[01:15:28] I never never even thought about blue on blue it was like such a it seemed like such a
[01:15:38] I shouldn't say we never thought about it but it seemed like such a foreign idea you think how
[01:15:43] could that ever happen the way I know and everything's just gonna happen to them but that's
[01:15:48] they always know what happens but it always happens to somebody else some other teams
[01:15:54] so it never happens to them I mean even that comment is like the common a current or
[01:16:00] a common debrief that we got on this and whatever you said like how often they heard that same exact
[01:16:04] story
[01:16:10] notes from other arms there's another one about just staying off the skyline right don't give away your
[01:16:15] position I just had to highlight this process section about what it was like when they had
[01:16:22] an entire craft versus when they didn't have it and the title of this section is absence makes the
[01:16:28] heart grow longer and what it was like and and what he says in here is that the
[01:16:35] rarely would the anti aircraft actually hit a German aircraft that was strafing them who rarely
[01:16:40] happened but when the anti aircraft wasn't there the German aircraft would just come down and just hammer
[01:16:47] free ray radio discipline first lieutenant CE plays air corps Sicily flyers coming into the combat
[01:16:58] zone had no conception of radio discipline Dave new pilots use the radio indiscriminately
[01:17:08] men returning from missions use the interplane radio unnecessarily which jammed up the band for
[01:17:14] other planes still on a mission comment failure to observe radio discipline is a major problem for
[01:17:20] both air and ground units in combat each individual believes his case is a special one not bound
[01:17:27] by established rules this tendency must be discouraged by positive action radio discipline is
[01:17:33] established to facilitate essential communications during combat and it's not a peace time play
[01:17:37] thing to be discarded when action is joined and this is this is task unit bruiser we were freaking
[01:17:45] awesome at radio discipline we did not talk on the radio in fact there would be operations where some
[01:17:53] some task units might use two or even three separate radio nets to coordinate and in task unit
[01:18:00] bruiser we would use one and it would be almost completely silent so yeah and and how is this
[01:18:08] transite in the regular life it's talking all the time it's not having discipline what the hell you say
[01:18:15] just feeling like you got to throw in your two cents all the time yeah yes for those of you that aren't
[01:18:22] seeing this I'm looking right right at my friend echo Charles whatever graphic in you know when I
[01:18:29] talk I think anyway I don't know I could be wrong here maybe I'm trying to just support the point
[01:18:35] you know bring it down to every day level right on I think there's a lot of supporters out there at
[01:18:40] least yeah the radio discipline thing isn't weird to this idea that everyone in combat each
[01:18:48] individual believes his case is a special one that's such a derogatory statement and you know what's
[01:18:55] funny about that derogatory statement everyone that hears it thinks they're talking about someone else
[01:19:02] like that's not me but it is you you are talking and no one wants to hear you and what you have to
[01:19:09] say isn't that important is that kind of like talking about your dreams with your friend
[01:19:15] you ever like to ever get your friend but I can't you know if I can you know when your friend
[01:19:22] is like hey I had the stream last night and it was but and it's not about you or nothing but
[01:19:26] this is just the weirdest dream aren't you like brow who cares you know but if you ever find
[01:19:31] yourself telling whoever about your dream it seems like it's so interesting it was just so bizarre
[01:19:36] and all this stuff you know the person is like bro you're quiet you know radio sound resounding metaphor
[01:19:43] complete capture documents big section about a ponsourcing the bodies they found a map of
[01:20:00] the second lieutenant and dispatch immediately to the regimental command post by runner next day
[01:20:04] the translation of this map is returned to first battalion it showed the Japanese defensive plan
[01:20:09] and proved very effective in eliminating Japanese from that area when they attacked it not only marked
[01:20:15] maps but also documents of less apparent importance may furnish the key to enemy plans
[01:20:20] when combined with other information the necessity for prompt forwarding to higher headquarters
[01:20:27] of all captured documents must be impressed on all ranks and I'll tell you why I wanted to bring that
[01:20:31] up because this is something we get told about until all the time is you know hey look you might
[01:20:36] find a piece of paper that's got the word purple on it and you bring that you know hey this what
[01:20:43] I found on target that could be some code word that you didn't know about it and it's it
[01:20:48] you don't know so whenever you think you know you're wrong whenever you think all that doesn't
[01:20:57] mean anything you're wrong and so when someone is talking to you and you think you know you're wrong
[01:21:03] you don't know they got some perspective that you don't know so listen to it listen to it
[01:21:10] I have to put myself in checks sometimes when I'll get asked a question like what working with a client
[01:21:16] and someone will give me a question and I'm telling you I have you I know you you have to
[01:21:23] experience this two-day someone someone raised their hand hey I want to know when it comes to
[01:21:29] cover move if I'm working with another department and they don't we already know where that
[01:21:34] question is going right there's like a 98% chance that we know that they're going to say hey
[01:21:38] this other department doesn't care about me and they don't really support us so what what what
[01:21:42] what am I supposed to do then just keep so what we we've heard that question we hear that question
[01:21:45] a lot I always have to put myself in check because just because I think that's what they're going
[01:21:52] to say doesn't mean that's what they're going to say it doesn't mean that there's not some
[01:21:56] nuance to it doesn't mean that I can spit out some module about how you you know well you
[01:22:01] continue to support them no listen to what they're saying don't stop them from talking
[01:22:10] you know the the minute somewhere I see this in group dynamics you know there's a discussion going on
[01:22:15] and someone's talking and someone else someone else in the group will cut them off
[01:22:22] and this is another thing I talked about on the F online think about how disrespeckful it is
[01:22:30] to cut someone off right like you might not say anything to me but if you're talking and I just jump
[01:22:34] in cut you off and just just without regard just just start to cut you off think about how
[01:22:41] do you consider that disrespectful echo trails yes or anything most people recognize that that is
[01:22:46] disrespectful and so they try to stop themselves from doing it they can't always control their
[01:22:51] egos they can't always like let it continue and I'll tell you I think being on podcast have you
[01:22:58] ever noticed when two people that have podcasts are on the same podcast they'll let the other
[01:23:04] person talk and it sort of let the person complete thoughts because podcasts is sort of an amplified
[01:23:08] version of if all of a sudden we're talking over each other it's just painful to listen to but then
[01:23:13] if you get someone that's not really a podcast type person or haven't hasn't done a lot of
[01:23:18] time they'll be jumping in and wanting to talk and it makes it hard to listen to so to me I think
[01:23:25] that's that's enhanced my my my listening right because I if I have a guest on here and they want to
[01:23:33] talk it's like okay I'm gonna let them complete their sentence and what I've realized over the years
[01:23:37] is that when I let someone do that there's usually some nuggets in there that I didn't know about
[01:23:41] so I'm actually gonna listen to what you have to say and the minute when I hear someone at
[01:23:46] you know at a will be working with a company and you'll hear someone say you know someone's
[01:23:50] mid sentence and boom gets cut off and overrun and here's what I was explaining on a F online the other
[01:23:56] day we all recognize that as disrespectful but it's seldom that we recognize the opposite which is
[01:24:05] when I'm listening to you I am showing you respect and you subconsciously know that like the
[01:24:12] the person that you're talking to when you listen to them they subconsciously feel respected
[01:24:17] which is a good which is a great thing because we're trying to build a relationship we're trying
[01:24:20] to build trust and it's incredible how this tool of listening is so powerful in increasing
[01:24:27] the trust in relationships that we can work to better together as a team and yet it's neglected all the
[01:24:32] time because I think oh I already know what Dave is going to say so I'm just gonna bud in and start to tell
[01:24:40] what I think well I am disrespecting Dave contrary if Dave is talking and I listen to him and I
[01:24:48] nod my head and say up I hear what you're saying and I let him complete his thoughts not only am I not
[01:24:53] disrespecting him I am respecting him and damn if you don't see some just mayhem go watch the news
[01:25:02] it's insanity it's total insanity not just the news casters themselves or the guests that they
[01:25:09] have come on for three minutes to yell at each other but go watch some you know two people in this
[01:25:14] day and age or five people or a hundred people arguing with each other no one's listening anybody
[01:25:20] why jump into that bar fight right this is a verbal bar fight which I obviously can escalate into
[01:25:26] real fights and real problems nowadays we're seeing all kinds of mayhem out in streets and that
[01:25:31] mayhem is being caused by the fact that no one's listening to each other and it starts with the
[01:25:35] disrespect if I'm not going to listen to you and by the way when you when I cut you off and then
[01:25:41] you try and cut me off back what's my response I get louder and then you get louder and now we're
[01:25:48] escalating next thing you know we're from one punch next thing you know we're having
[01:25:51] hooking bottles and bricks and shooting tear gas and we got a real freaking problem
[01:25:57] because we don't listen to each other yeah a lot of times though when when I witness that
[01:26:04] or see it or whatever I think anyway comes not necessarily overtly disrespect but it's almost
[01:26:10] like an absence of respect because more like they're just distracted or maybe just focused on their
[01:26:16] own like what they have to say or their own significance or whatever right so how you said yeah
[01:26:23] because if I think I know what Dave's going to say I'm going to cut him off and that's true
[01:26:27] and even if it's subconscious it's true you know because if I don't know what you're going to say
[01:26:31] and I'm like kind of curious I'm going to I'm going to wait to hear it you know but a lot of times
[01:26:36] people they're either think they know what they're going to say or they're too eager about what
[01:26:42] they want to say right so it kind of a lot of times it comes back to like what kind of person you
[01:26:46] are you know so if you're like hey everything that comes out of my mouth is just go
[01:26:53] you'll probably interrupt people more like I tend to see that kind of pattern you know for sure
[01:27:00] and there's I will say the main time when I jump in on somebody is like I've got something
[01:27:07] flashing through my brain and I don't want to lose it yeah you don't want to forget it there is that
[01:27:12] to you and yeah that actually seems like a legitimate like reason to interrupt sometimes yeah
[01:27:21] but it's one of those things and I think like you said a couple times or it's like oh yeah
[01:27:24] it might must not have been that important or whatever you know if you forget it but here's the
[01:27:28] thing though there's a little dichotomy on that one too what if Dave's over here talking like so much
[01:27:33] he said so many things that reached like straightaway acquired me and interrupt me like hey I
[01:27:37] got to stop you there you know like that kind or it's like hey that's not I got to stop you there you
[01:27:41] know kind of thing but I didn't I just let him go meanwhile he left me with 47 things that
[01:27:48] require my rebuttal or whatever and I didn't interrupt them it's kind of like yeah that's a challenge
[01:27:53] yeah but at the end of the day big picture you might as well just be like well at least I listen
[01:27:59] to Dave and everything yet to say yeah I mean obviously we could break down sort of break down the
[01:28:04] social dynamics of situations where you know you'll find some disagreement with you now I will
[01:28:09] tell you I am much better off if Dave is saying something that I disagree with I am much better off
[01:28:16] most of the time letting him say what it is that I disagree with rather than just jumping in and being like
[01:28:22] that that look it's it's disrespectful I'm clearly not listening to you
[01:28:26] right I'm cutting you off yeah so why am I behaving that way it's not good look if you
[01:28:36] if Dave wants to talk for seven minutes and rattle off you know like you said 47 points
[01:28:43] maybe at some point I go you know maybe at some point I say hey can I just can we can we kind of
[01:28:48] address these things one at a time because you've you've just said three different things and
[01:28:52] I'm gonna I'm gonna get lost in what you're saying and and I want to talk about that first thing
[01:28:57] I think you could do that respectfully yeah like you got to put effort into the respectful part of
[01:29:01] you know like I can respectfully interrupt really but if you're just throwing out interruptions yes
[01:29:06] disrespectful there's certainly different modalities of interruption that are that are
[01:29:13] you know wildly differently from and you know it's cool what's interesting is when you are
[01:29:20] face to face with somebody you can tell when the person wants to say something right you can
[01:29:25] let's look at the face and they get a face and they have a non-verbal communication telling you
[01:29:29] I got something to say right now and if if I'm if Dave's giving me that look
[01:29:35] my my respect to him is to go he's got something to say time to give him a moment
[01:29:41] yeah and the I think well I'm speaking from experience and I don't have much but
[01:29:49] well actually no I do have a lot of experience listening to people talk but if you if you
[01:29:55] have a situation where okay the person is talking and they're saying all crazy stuff right
[01:30:00] that kind of requires some correction or some interruption right or some discussion at
[01:30:05] an minimum yeah so unless you guys are actively working on solving a specific problem we can
[01:30:10] which can happen like in work or in a family or whatever but you know how some people they just
[01:30:13] like to talk and we're just having a friend and conversation whatever and they're just
[01:30:17] blabbing at the same things that are just some are true some are not true and they're just going
[01:30:21] on and on like they're all all correct right and then won't be quite you might as well just not
[01:30:27] say anything because at the end of the day it it does you better to just listen to everything they
[01:30:33] said and you know you know what you know the old saying like yeah you don't want to talk
[01:30:36] you want to listen because now you know everything you already know and then you know what they
[01:30:40] know kind of thing you're with them yeah that's that's from this podcast as a matter of fact
[01:30:45] oh there you go boom so so it's like that kind of situation you know like you're not you're not
[01:30:50] tasked necessarily to to effectively change someone's mind every single time so you might as well
[01:30:57] just keep your mouth shut a lot of the time I mean let's face it if you're going to have a
[01:31:01] discussion with someone to try and try and consolidate your ideas together to become to come up
[01:31:08] with a the strongest idea then you have to converse with them and whether there are subordinate
[01:31:14] or a superior or a peer at some point you know in order to progress ideas you have to
[01:31:22] converse with them and just sitting there and remaining silent when people are saying things that
[01:31:27] you totally disagree with or to put in a better way you don't fully understand their perspective
[01:31:33] then we have to uncover that perspective a little bit and you do that by asking questions and
[01:31:39] trying to figure out where they are coming from yeah you know I'm totally recalling of
[01:31:46] very specific situation recently whereas the middle of this straight up argument debate
[01:31:51] social situation about political causes I political things and I just witness just may
[01:31:57] I'm going back and forth I'm saying anything yeah that's just jumping into a bar fight that
[01:32:02] you're not but I'm thinking like hey either one of you guys could easily just be quiet and
[01:32:08] listen and not saying anything for the rest of the whole time or whatever and this whole like
[01:32:14] we'd all be better off it's kind of like one of those situations so I'm totally projecting that right
[01:32:20] now until this situation what are you writing down there do there's a lot there's a lot and what you just said
[01:32:31] you're thinking you're just talking about when you're sitting there watching these other two people
[01:32:37] and when you're watching these other two people have like what is kind of like a ridiculous
[01:32:41] conversation with an arguing you're just sort of the news or whatever and we're all just sitting
[01:32:45] there as observers and it looks completely ridiculous to us as observers you see it escalating
[01:32:50] you see it going nowhere you see people digging in and when you're just watching it it's obvious
[01:32:56] how completely ridiculous it is the comment earlier is like that feeling that when we have something to say
[01:33:04] it's different and this needs to be said remember that when you're about to open your mouth somebody
[01:33:09] else is going to watch it and you're going to look every bit is ridiculous to them as they did to you
[01:33:16] when you're talking about listening and I have learned this in my life I have learned to have a bias
[01:33:22] to not talk I learned that skill wasn't born with that skill I don't think anybody would
[01:33:27] accuse 20-year-old Dave of having a bias for listening that's a learned thing that I have
[01:33:32] done in my life the trick there is what you have said a thousand times is you actually have to
[01:33:38] listen because of what you said before just if I'm talking and you're letting me talk and I think
[01:33:43] you're listening to me I'll talk I'll keep doing with you but the second I catch you the
[01:33:49] I roll at the heavy breeze or whatever you're going to do and like do this guys listen into me
[01:33:55] you actually have to listen and the only way you will truly listen to what the other person says
[01:34:01] is if in your mind you believe that you might get something out of it because if you think you're like
[01:34:05] I'll do it here goes echo he's going to just go do what he does and it's going to be a complete waste of time
[01:34:11] the minute I do that I'm going to miss something and the actual listening part is a lot harder than
[01:34:19] it sounds because the conversation you're having your head which is I know I'm right all these
[01:34:23] points are wrong all these things are saying you're just complete waste the active listening piece
[01:34:27] better come from a place of authenticity or you need to get found out in a second because your
[01:34:31] body language is going to give the whole thing away and then you might as well just come off right
[01:34:34] there because they're not listening because he knows you're not listening to me yeah there's a
[01:34:39] lot with that and it symbols it sounds to listen if it was so easy wouldn't have to say it
[01:34:44] over again you're all fighting the urge like to yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[01:34:51] check a little section to hear about just just foratization with the prisoners
[01:35:00] and and that they could not do that which is the reason the reason I said that is because
[01:35:06] here are these guys are trying to kill you for me this is just shows you the
[01:35:13] the predominant spirit spirit of the American servicemen it says here it was necessary
[01:35:21] repeatedly to warn the troops against incorrect practice of fratizing with prisoners and
[01:35:25] giving them cigarettes which interfered with the proper interrogation troops had to be warned
[01:35:29] not to remove paybooks from the prisoners because these books furnished a check to the interrogation
[01:35:34] officer of the prisoner's statements in regard to his organization previous service so there's just
[01:35:39] these you wouldn't think that after these guys are trying to kill you that you'd want to
[01:35:44] give them a cigarette right and yet respect speed marching commanding general third division
[01:35:59] Sicily the importance of physical condition cannot be over emphasized speed marching proved of
[01:36:04] great value in developing physical condition eliminating the unfit and instilling confidence
[01:36:09] impride in the individual as a general training objective all units prepared for landing on
[01:36:17] defended beaches and an advance inland of about five miles speed marching continued each unit
[01:36:23] being required to complete five miles in one hour eight miles in two hours and 20 miles in five hours
[01:36:28] once a week this training was largely responsible for the speed with which the assault of this
[01:36:34] division was executed there you go physical conditioning it he points out this and this is so obvious
[01:36:48] instilling confidence impride mean what a factor what a factor who ate the warrior kid books you know
[01:36:56] get a kid that doesn't will can't do a pull-up right and also you can do a pull-up you can lift your own
[01:37:03] weight you can stand up a little straighter and get your team working out to what I'm saying
[01:37:12] writing messages reports and messages major Robert Wilson field artillery
[01:37:18] Italy the who what when where and why we're often not contained in reports both oral and written
[01:37:24] battalion regimental s-tos and the men themselves indicated that during maneuvers and in training
[01:37:29] problems they had thought that this subject had been mastered but that in combat it was ignored
[01:37:33] or forgotten as to clarity the axiom of a message can be understood it will be missed if a message
[01:37:39] can be misunderstood it will be misunderstood was well proven the comment here writing messages during
[01:37:46] a unit training program is one thing writing clear specifically worded messages and orders
[01:37:53] under combat conditions is quite another theoretical training and message writing must be
[01:37:59] supplemented by constant practice and supervision in the field that why I was an English major
[01:38:08] so I could learn how to write section here on dirt breeding infection half the
[01:38:16] vacuations from the battalion was due to infection caused by minor scratches and to that I would say
[01:38:23] I'd get yourself some warrior kid sop so you could stay oh come on this is another one of those
[01:38:31] life ones a fox hole in time saves lives lieutenant crawl bowguard infantry fifth army Italy
[01:38:39] although the average american soldier will dig a fox hole or slit trench when the artillery or
[01:38:45] mortar shells are falling in his vicinity only a few of those I saw would dig them
[01:38:52] prior to that time when they did dig them they were usually quite shallow it was always very easy
[01:39:00] to tell a German fox hole from the american the former were always much deeper many casualties
[01:39:05] occurred from shell fire which I believe would have been avoided had proper fox holes or slit trench
[01:39:10] been dug in and this is you know the code the evaluation of protocol are you prepared for life
[01:39:17] emergencies are you prepared for emergency situations we as americans I totally agree with this we don't
[01:39:25] like to worry about anything until it slaps us in the face in fact in the seal teams I used to tell
[01:39:29] my leadership no one worries about anything until they get slapped in the face with it like no one's
[01:39:34] really concerned about that until you get hit with it and all of a sudden you got to execute that
[01:39:37] mission and you're not the gear that you need so let's get the gear we need let's get do the rehearsals
[01:39:41] we're supposed to do be proactive I can kind of go for little things to over 100% goes to little
[01:39:50] things but well yeah so these and these little things can kind of get sold the other night
[01:39:56] metal it's bedtime we'll go sleep right in the middle of the night here
[01:40:02] you know what that is right no idea your uh permanent security or a fire detector with a nine
[01:40:08] volt battery that's dead that's dying exactly right and brought you inside you think you can if you don't
[01:40:13] have nine volt batteries at what three a m and nowhere they are and nowhere they are yeah but listen you
[01:40:21] don't have them straight up I mean let's face it did you just have random nine volt batteries in your
[01:40:25] in your house yes I know exactly where they are so have to do for each fire detector in my house
[01:40:31] here's the thing I may father now so so do I oh yeah so do I but I'll tell you this before I had
[01:40:37] kids before I had a thing life whatever that's my protection I didn't have nine volt batteries
[01:40:46] just hanging around straight up didn't have didn't even think about it years oh yeah 100% I
[01:40:50] guess my wife when she was growing up they they didn't have batteries like you know the
[01:40:55] her mom and dad just batteries weren't on the list yeah and so my wife is a battery a
[01:41:01] horror and stockpiler you want a nine volt you want a triple A double A what do you want C.C.
[01:41:08] open up that cabinet they're in there they're ready for I'm with you my wife the exact same
[01:41:13] she gets a little bit excited when the batteries run out on something she gets a little bit
[01:41:16] you know it's like hey the batteries out on this thing hold on and she goes and digs out of
[01:41:22] C.E.2.3.2.5 for my watch actually I think my watch is F.32.32 yeah this was gonna say
[01:41:31] that's the C.3 that one's I think that's a scale you put that in one of those little scales
[01:41:36] it might be that well I don't know either way yeah I don't know either but I do know that I did
[01:41:41] have a nine volt battery that night but I was thinking to myself probably what if I didn't have a nine
[01:41:45] volt battery right no we're not sleeping tonight you're only you're not sleeping then that and it
[01:41:50] doesn't have to do just that night now you got the whole next day you got to contend with
[01:41:53] you seem saying I'm really very this is your paranoid no a fire or that beep is bothering you the
[01:42:00] beep is gonna keep you up I'm with you man that's that's the kiss kiss I'll tell you what happens
[01:42:06] it turns out that that fire detector that beeps every 60 seconds can't be destroyed yeah you could
[01:42:13] take a sledgehammer to it and just breaking it without it will still beep so when you're talking
[01:42:18] about that's the slap in the face which is a totally unprepared for the situation now you're up
[01:42:22] all night you think you solve the problem the second you get in the bed lights out covers
[01:42:27] babe I got a sort beep and then you're up again some with you that's true I learned this lesson
[01:42:35] 30 years ago so I've got those nine volts at the ready yes sir yeah and in one time you know how I found
[01:42:40] that out that you can't you can't stop that thing I was like okay I was a gas no problem like I'll
[01:42:45] just take out the battery how can I beep with no power simply can't be it can't happen so like
[01:42:50] you know where's it get the power to beep from where does that come from apparently they thought
[01:42:55] ahead you know in the case of a really emergency it's one of those things and a little bit more
[01:42:59] important then you're sweet that night if you're unprepared you know so it made sense when I
[01:43:03] kind of thought through it but nonetheless I'll still face with this problem like this beeping
[01:43:07] lucky it wasn't in the middle of the night but whatever so I said yeah I got a job I
[01:43:13] would have a real problem that day but I had to put it in the drawer you could still hear but it was
[01:43:18] just way way more quiet so any got a battery whatever later on yeah I can't be disabled that's
[01:43:24] the whole reason if it's not a disaster I cannot can't be far from doing it for you there but yeah
[01:43:29] man nonetheless that's the point it can go for small things too seems saying they'd probably just
[01:43:34] be prepared how about this how about just keep some nine volt batteries oh good probably three
[01:43:39] m three p.m whenever you go oh better it's better you slow you know we good over there I
[01:43:45] click turn also with that alright let's move on section three mountain operations they go through a big
[01:43:52] batang in attack here going to a lot of detail it's another another from another perspective on the
[01:43:58] battle on the atto island and there's there's some detail there's some maps and charts and you
[01:44:06] should go check it out online so you can kind of get the full benefit of that but I just wanted to hit a
[01:44:09] couple highlights and we're going back to communications here a rather elaborate system of communications
[01:44:14] was established to enable the batang commander to control the fire of supporting weapons in further
[01:44:20] instead of tactical plans the artillery radar radio as well as telephone was set up at the batang
[01:44:26] commanders OP on top of the hogback which is one of these little terrain features a sound power
[01:44:32] telephone was run from the mortar OP back to the batang commander likewise one from the 75's the
[01:44:38] telephone was also run from the OP to the officer in charge of all 37 millimeter firing radio and
[01:44:45] telephone control was run to all companies in the batang so the reason I highlight that that's a lot of
[01:44:52] communications and if we're counting on all those communications we may not get what we might not get what we want
[01:45:01] goes into this here they get into contact we saw the first one at 0 4 30 in the morning he was
[01:45:09] a centering we were then 50 yards of him he stood up against the skyline it was shaking out a
[01:45:14] grass mat lieutenant brown motion to us to get up a little under the ledge to our front and then he shot
[01:45:21] the jab the shot must have awakened others as we worked up over the ledge a jab machine
[01:45:26] gunner began firing at us we stayed down until the first excited burst had gone over then we raised
[01:45:32] up and returned fire several jabs had holes near the edge of the ledge we were under and they
[01:45:36] began to throw grenades over but the hill below is so steep that most of the grenades rolled down
[01:45:41] and exploded out of range below us the machine gun was firing again but several of our men were close
[01:45:48] enough to to the ledge to lob grenades over the machine gun itself was out of grenade range
[01:45:53] but some of the jabs near the edge caught hell from the grenades are you feeling lucky when the
[01:46:05] people that are throwing grenades at you they like bounce over your position and don't hurt you I
[01:46:10] think that might have been my whole point there the radio fails so this is why I get concerned about
[01:46:17] about communications and as a former radio minute definitely freaks me out lieutenant brown try to
[01:46:23] again and again to contact battalion headquarters or the artillery and I'm fast forwarding a little bit
[01:46:27] or the artillery with the radio but the set refused to function the radio man worked with it and
[01:46:32] tried again but failed the button was reorganizing we started up again they're assaulting the
[01:46:36] hill we got as high as the ledge once more and had started over the top on the table above
[01:46:42] when the jab opened up with machine guns again we needed artillery and needed it bad every time
[01:46:47] we stuck our noses up a hail storm of bullets cracked across them the radio man was trying
[01:46:52] frantically to contact anybody in the valley below us but the set remained silent several men had
[01:46:58] crawled around to the left and through grenades at the jabs near the edge of the table but the
[01:47:03] machine guns remained out of range our men were driven back to the cover of the ledge with several
[01:47:09] wounds artillery if we only had artillery we could observe the fire we knew where the guns were
[01:47:15] if we could only get some fire we'd walk over the damn mountains the radio man was desperate
[01:47:20] he tried to set again but it was silent in a rage he threw it down the hill yeah so there's a
[01:47:30] bunch of things to think about there just you know your communications cannot be relied upon
[01:47:35] you have to have some kind of backup plan and if you're if you're expecting you can be able to
[01:47:41] make communications when when they're really gonna be needed that is the time they're gonna fail
[01:47:46] that is Murphy's law if you say okay Dave here's gonna happen we have this whole complicated plan and then when you get to
[01:47:51] this point radio me and that's when we'll execute that radio call has a 4% chance of making
[01:47:59] communications if everything hinges upon one call the weight of that hinge just just has
[01:48:07] carmatic is that a word a carmic carmic impact on that communication system and it's not going to work great so
[01:48:18] their attack gets repulsed he says he said we heard the guns in a valley begin firing the attack
[01:48:25] was on we had failed and we felt bad about it bad that they had the drop on us they go into the main attack
[01:48:32] the japs were holding the pass on the high ground on both sides in the front two the ones on the
[01:48:36] right could fire into the backs the attackers of the left and vice versa it was rough going
[01:48:42] lieutenant clevsie got me up and we went around the second section to get them started up
[01:48:48] hill the attack was going okay but it was an awfully tough one bullets were flying all over the
[01:48:53] hillside just up hill from the second section was a jab 37 millimeter we had watched them fire
[01:48:58] from that position several days before and we knew there were japs in that trench the main attack
[01:49:03] was moving around to the left as we started up the hill finally the fire got so heavy that the
[01:49:08] machine gun squad took cover in a little draw until we grenade the trench above us to clean it out
[01:49:16] then they were to come on up sergeant tom kovic private first class William Marshall and I started
[01:49:22] up with lieutenant clevsie we had crawled on our bellies to within 25 yards of the trench
[01:49:28] when a sniper raised up and shot Marshall in the air we shot at the sniper we threw grenades into
[01:49:33] the trench we crawled up rapidly then ready to move in behind our grenades and another sniper
[01:49:38] poppies head up out of the hole just above us lieutenant clevsie fired his car being just as the
[01:49:43] jab fire lieutenant toppled over a little bank and lay still he was dead I was just bringing up the
[01:49:49] rifle as the jab my rifle as the jab ducked then from across the valley the jab spotted us
[01:49:55] and they gave us hell machine guns rifles in 37 millimeter began pounding the area finally the
[01:50:00] intense shelling slowed down and we dashed for the open end of the jab trench we had grenadeed
[01:50:05] the trench led around to the point of the hill we crawled down the trench and found where the
[01:50:09] japs were located when we stuck our heads right up in the face of a burst of machine gun fire
[01:50:15] some men from company f had come over to help us but we're stymied we couldn't raise up long enough
[01:50:20] to fire we couldn't get close enough to throw grenades finally we decided to see if we could
[01:50:24] get some mortar fire on the position in some way corporal outford hayman started back up
[01:50:30] to check on the mortar possibilities and while we waited and rested the jab position was slightly
[01:50:36] below us and about a hundred yards further into the pass they were firing almost constantly at
[01:50:41] the troops we could see moving out in the valley and on the opposite side of the pass we were quite
[01:50:46] high up on the side of cold mountain after nearly two hours of lying in the trench and waiting
[01:50:51] we heard one of the men behind holler here he men up here he men and a man from company h the
[01:50:58] infantry were crawling up along the little ravine laying wire they had found a company h mortar
[01:51:03] and had a line right to it the big fight up on the mountain had almost gotten to the top
[01:51:08] but the forces across the pass were getting hell from the guns below us we got the phone all set
[01:51:13] up and carefully poked a little dirt a little hole in the dirt side of the trench a week so that
[01:51:19] one man could see the whole jab position below then we called mortar and the fun started
[01:51:25] we were only about a hundred yards from where the shells were striking in the ground shook
[01:51:29] they fired several rounds close and then they began to drop right in the position finally we called
[01:51:35] and told them we were moving in and not to fire the position was like a big wheel
[01:51:39] was a big wheel like a fair with holes all around it and the spokes connecting the trenches
[01:51:44] with a big center installation in the hub two Japanese machine guns in the 37 millimeter
[01:51:49] that had fired at us during the previous week were captured and destroyed there we tossed six dead
[01:51:55] japs out the hole and brought them brought up our guns up and set them in the jap holes we there we
[01:52:02] sat that night just daring the little so and so has to come up man what positions they had
[01:52:08] one little fight with in a battle you know one little tiny fight with in a battle and
[01:52:27] think of all those decisions that got made and all those actions that took place in the
[01:52:31] mistakes that had to be covered for and the initiative that had to be shown and the bravery
[01:52:37] and the courage I mean it's just it's leadership that's that's what it is it's leadership
[01:52:49] they they go through a bunch of this information continuing on they there's another group
[01:52:58] that takes another point and and again
[01:53:00] look these guys I can pretty much guarantee are no longer alive but this is these are quotes
[01:53:09] these are what these guys are saying happened you know things like lieutenant wallsack
[01:53:18] saying check your bayonets as they get ready to do this assault
[01:53:21] and there's just so there's some some other little battles within fights within battles that
[01:53:30] they cover and then it gets into this comment section these accounts bring out some of the
[01:53:38] characteristics of mountain warfare in which success depends more upon proper adaptation of
[01:53:44] available means to the terrain then upon their power so the way you adapt is more important
[01:53:54] they continue maneuver of small units and the initiative and leadership of subordinate
[01:54:01] commanders are of the highest importance in mountain warfare the actions of small semi-independent
[01:54:09] units in seizing or defending heights and or in fighting to seize or block passes become of
[01:54:17] increasing importance so once again even though this book starts off with the extreme dichotomy
[01:54:26] of discipline of following orders it comes back always to decentralize command an individual
[01:54:33] initiative by subordinate leaders to make things happen he's talking about mountain warfare there
[01:54:43] and and getting to this idea of I mean that's it that's leadership right it's leadership is
[01:54:48] going to be the deciding factor here because the terrain is so it's so impossible to predict there's
[01:54:55] so many different things in places and outcropping it all these different and even tell the story
[01:55:00] what great position they had in that previous example with the Japanese life is more like a mountain
[01:55:06] warfare than it is going to be these big open fields if your life can just reveal themselves and
[01:55:10] just going to plan your your move down down the road there are so many things that are popping
[01:55:15] up when we're talking to companies right now they're describing that same terrain in their business
[01:55:22] lives of all these unproductive and unexpected things and it isn't the strength of their brand
[01:55:28] and it isn't you know the quality it's the leadership that's navigating these companies through
[01:55:32] when we're talking about the terrain of mountain warfare that's what life is it's not just this
[01:55:40] easy straight road from A to B you're just marched down and everything is it's clean
[01:55:46] and how crazy that has to be that at every single turn something comes up and the tool that
[01:55:51] you the only tool that you have to get past that is leadership and you know what I like
[01:55:56] also about this analogy and the way it ties into the entire concept of yes of leadership but
[01:56:04] really even more specifically to ownership and extreme ownership and and that is this this is
[01:56:11] what's so beautiful about this you can't move those mountains you cannot do you cannot those
[01:56:21] mountains are what they are and that's what that's what what triggered that fought my mind was you
[01:56:25] said there's all these variables but what's interesting is you're looking at them you know for
[01:56:32] days you understand you can see it on the map you can look at it there's this mountain and you know what
[01:56:38] you can't move that mountain and what you have to do is you have to move yourself and this is
[01:56:43] you know we talk about this in GG2 and someone's across the side on you I can bench press you
[01:56:48] uninch you know maybe two inches I don't care if you have a 500 pound bench press when you've
[01:56:53] got a person that's mobile and they're they're securing you and they've got your chest compress
[01:57:00] but you can't bench press them off of you you can move them just enough then you have to move
[01:57:06] it's incumbent upon you and so we can't move mountains what we have to do is adapt what we have to
[01:57:13] figure out how to utilize us things and what the important thing is even though we can't move
[01:57:19] those mountains the person that figures out how to utilize that terrain is the one that's going to win
[01:57:27] you utilize the terrain it's something that I have no control over but I control how I interact
[01:57:32] with that mountain and I know where I need to be and I know I understand the angles and I understand
[01:57:36] what ravine will give me cover and I understand where it exposes me well even he's talking about hey
[01:57:41] this the way the Japanese were set up and was like oh they can hit these guys here in the
[01:57:46] flank and they can shoot these guys in the back that's the position that they have that's a freaking
[01:57:50] horrible situation to be rolling into horrible situation to be rolling into so when you look at things
[01:57:59] instead of sitting there and going saying I wish the market was different I wish the competitor
[01:58:04] would do something different I wish my employees would act in a different way these are all things
[01:58:10] that you can look at you can wish all day long just like you can wish that mountain moves but
[01:58:14] that mountain's not going anywhere so you need to maneuver you need to take ownership of that
[01:58:19] situation and make things happen there's a whole bunch of sections here engineer operations tanks
[01:58:30] infantry notes and jungle operations one one section here Japanese centers of resistance were bypassed
[01:58:39] and isolated again how often do we say oh Dave doesn't like this part of my plan so I'm going to
[01:58:47] attack him on that instead of saying okay Dave's going to dig in right there cool I'm going to
[01:58:51] maneuver around it right bypass I'm going to start thinking about that a little bit more often
[01:58:56] in my daily life well how can I bypass maybe not when it comes to working out because echo
[01:58:59] Charles pointed out that might not be the best plan but if it's things that I don't want to engage in
[01:59:05] why am I engaging in them if I don't have to if I can isolate and bypass and not make it part of my
[01:59:10] gig that's fine frontal attacks were uniformly successful when assisted by a flank attack
[01:59:23] on many occasions the flank attack preceded the frontal attack coming into Japanese positions
[01:59:28] from the rear and completely disrupting their defense plans and almost all cases the maneuver
[01:59:33] used by units of all sizes from division to squad was the development of one or both flanks
[01:59:40] yeah resistance was made by resistance was bypassed encircled and reduced later
[01:59:46] so the frontal assault works when it's not actually a frontal assault that's awesome
[01:59:50] frontal assault works when you're doing something else as well yes that's so legit
[01:59:54] section on section on automatic weapons night operations security measures security at night
[02:00:06] lines of communication patrol reports in general the distance covered by the patrols was much less
[02:00:13] than expected of them the difficulties of terrain caused by many patrol leaders to feel that they
[02:00:19] had covered two or three times as much ground than they had actually covered this must be taken
[02:00:23] to account when evaluating patrol reports these are people that think that they know like hey
[02:00:29] I was there in that crazy you could be looking at me totally convinced that you went to
[02:00:35] kilometers and it turns out when we retrace your steps you went whatever 700 yards 700 meters
[02:00:46] one last section to cover here yeah this last section is very interesting
[02:00:53] evacuation methods informal report salomon islands evacuation of casualties was by hand carry
[02:01:03] litter bearers cable litter slings across jungle gollies improvised sleds or drags down steep
[02:01:11] inclines improvised litter racks on quarter ton jeeps small boats on mountain streams or along the
[02:01:18] coast and finally by field ambulances to clearing stations or hospitals how's that for a nightmare
[02:01:28] when you when you were in found did you we ever down pilot yeah yeah did you get carried out on
[02:01:33] the letters yeah you go out in helicopter you stage there and then come on get you like the
[02:01:36] the metal the it's like a metal basket basically the litter did you ever get carried by a seal
[02:01:42] platoon like eight kilometers no okay I know exactly what you're talking about I was never the
[02:01:48] I was never the down air crew that got actually physically pulled right it's not fun when you're
[02:01:54] getting carried because you're getting dropped you're getting slammed you're getting all over the place
[02:01:58] and usually we would stick guys with IVs you know we're like we would try and do some medical training
[02:02:02] on as well but good lord I want you to think about everything that I just said hand carry
[02:02:12] cable litter's across jungle golly's improvise sleds drags down steep so you're wounded
[02:02:18] and what's the method of doing okay we're gonna drag you down a steep incline improvise
[02:02:23] litter on a on a quarter ton jeep imagine that thing bouncing around small boats think about a
[02:02:29] nightmare and this is where you start to realize what a nightmare I'm talking about
[02:02:35] evacuation by litter bears was difficult tiring time consuming and involved distances averaging
[02:02:44] two or three miles and five to six miles in some instances many more litter bears had to be
[02:02:52] utilized than under ordinary conditions litter carry in many cases required as high as
[02:02:59] 16 carriers per patient over almost impossible terrain and can be counted as least efficient
[02:03:10] so it takes 16 people to evacuate somebody two miles or three miles
[02:03:18] where evacuation by litter was necessary bearers worked in relays eight or even 16 men accompanying
[02:03:25] each litter leaving one another in litter carry and in cutting narrow paths through the dense jungle
[02:03:34] 16 people to move a wounded man I mean that's just crazy and obviously it wasn't all of them but
[02:03:44] they're saying hey sometimes it was eight and I'll tell you the the reason I was asking you if
[02:03:48] you'd ever been in that position number one you get beat up but you know when we would do desert training
[02:03:53] when I was running desert training men those guys would do some down man carries and I'm sure
[02:03:58] some of the guys that are here and we say in that an hour smiling with pleasant memories
[02:04:04] of going eight kilometers through the imperial valley desert carrying and eventually like the
[02:04:11] first you know if we had a troop that hadn't been through before or didn't have any experience say oh yeah
[02:04:18] hey which I'd you know what's your casualty evacuation plan oh we're just gonna put two guys on
[02:04:21] and we're gonna do a forget the name there's a couple carries you know there's a standard fireman's
[02:04:25] carry oh we're just gonna fireman's carry okay cool see how that see how that works out for you
[02:04:31] you can't I mean it's it's you can do it for 100 meters 200 meters 300 meters
[02:04:39] 400 meters you're on night vision you're in the worst freaking terrain rocks shale rocks
[02:04:47] all all over the place and it was great because as we would do these drills and as guys realized
[02:04:53] what a traumatic impact it was when you took casualties and how you had to adjust what you
[02:05:01] thought you'd be able to do because you can't just freaking rambo you can rambo somebody up I
[02:05:07] mean I've done it like okay grab a guy and I'm gonna carry 150 meters 200 meters
[02:05:11] by the time you get to that 200 meter mark like you're when you get to the spot you're just
[02:05:17] falling down with the guy 300 meters you're just falling down and you're exhausted and you've lost
[02:05:22] your weapon and your night vision and his gear's gone it's a disaster until you figure out okay
[02:05:28] when this happens here's what here's some procedures that we need to do
[02:05:31] talks about the improvised G bandulence is talks about evacuation by water
[02:05:46] physical fitness the arduous and fatiguing litter carrying demonstrated the need for physical
[02:05:52] fitness on the part of medical department personnel which should correct the impression that
[02:05:58] physically impaired individuals can be utilized throughout medical department activities
[02:06:06] so this idea that you can have a bunch of you know guy that's injured or hurt and have him
[02:06:11] broken in medical being a stretcher bearer is completely and utterly wrong and that's
[02:06:20] well that's a wrap on the highlights that I had from this
[02:06:23] and you know I I don't know when I think about this whole thing and we've been
[02:06:31] referring back to it the whole time that so many good lessons but the the the key take away
[02:06:37] for me is that whole idea of leader versus inertia and you know as soon as I said that
[02:06:44] today Dave I looked at you and I saw you had about a thousand thoughts going through your mind
[02:06:47] don't want that means and how many ways that we can apply that it's like the world is
[02:06:53] inspiring against us and it's human nature to neglect our duties and I know that sounds
[02:07:04] crazy and sure there's some outliers out there that are proactive and make things happen
[02:07:08] but you've got to assess as a leader that human nature is to be lazy and to be careless and
[02:07:15] you need definitely looking the mirror because it's not always just going to be the people that
[02:07:22] you lead it's going to be you and that section where they talk about the hardest job that you
[02:07:31] have as a leader is getting things done getting things done by people who know that they're
[02:07:37] supposed to do them and even in some cases know that those things are costing in lives failure to
[02:07:43] do things failure to take action so don't allow that be on the lookout how nice is it sometimes
[02:07:54] when you make the connection between something that's there that you've always known was there
[02:08:01] but you never p-i-d it and by that echo I mean positively identified like hey I know now
[02:08:07] everyone that's listening to this today now knows that that's a problem and look we all kind
[02:08:15] of knew it right I mean I talked about a discipline which we didn't feel man way I know
[02:08:18] or walk on a move like that's a real thing I get it we all kind of get it but how about the
[02:08:24] p-i-d on it and now when it starts happening either with you or with your team or with your family
[02:08:29] or with your friends you can p-i-d it and then you can address it properly and you can start with yourself
[02:08:39] you can start by making things happen
[02:08:49] speaking of making things happen echo Charles yes how can we do what we're supposed to do
[02:08:57] well we know we should do on top of p-i-d-ing it we p-i-d it oh yeah yeah something with complaining
[02:09:05] right remember we p-i-d that long time ago complaining uh blaming another one yeah there's
[02:09:10] two those are two good things once you recognize once you p-i-d those things man that blame
[02:09:15] one oh yeah because if you don't p-i-d the blame it'll like sneak in it it's like you're
[02:09:21] gonna wait with it dude really it's clear oh yeah you can be like yeah yeah I really shouldn't have
[02:09:26] done that you know it could have helped you know if you were to game the heads up or whatever but
[02:09:29] you write I shouldn't shouldn't have done that you see the blame like that's stupid mountain was
[02:09:34] totally blocking our position yeah kind of make it makes it kind of harder but no you're
[02:09:39] right I should have done it you same same see me taking ownership but slipping in the blame
[02:09:43] you can see the blame you can see it it's what I'm saying anyway so don't do that
[02:09:48] when you're um working out which okay so I worked out today actually I mean I thought about
[02:09:54] working out today but then I got into this deep conversation with my wife about some important
[02:10:00] stuff the window closed the window totally closed oh it closed it straight up closed yeah
[02:10:06] because the conversation went long I had to come here you see him same yeah I had a window
[02:10:11] closing last night it was I had something my wife was making dinner I was like I can fit in a
[02:10:20] run right now before dinner oh late workout no just a run I already worked out so run is not
[02:10:26] a workout there you are so late night so my wife was cooking dinner I had like a 40 minute window
[02:10:33] my wife says oh by the way someone's coming over to grab something I'm like okay the
[02:10:39] run's not happening now the windows just I'm kind of I'm kind of struggling it off like oh well
[02:10:43] you know we know closed you know but then I PID did and I said you know what I ate dinner which I
[02:10:49] ate I ate dinner and then I ran just and punished myself I pulled one of those before
[02:10:54] brother that's still true right there so that right there well you just did which went what
[02:10:59] you what you experienced same deal right you got the 40 minute window for running right
[02:11:05] because you got it all planned on your head it goes beyond the run it goes like the stuff you did
[02:11:09] before is in your mind stuff you're gonna do after the run dinner all this other stuff and the
[02:11:13] stuff after that in your mind does not include the run because the run is already done that's it that's
[02:11:19] whole formula right there in your mind so now that little window closed boom where is that run
[02:11:23] gonna fit in I already know in my mind what I'm gonna do after dinner which is after the run
[02:11:28] which already happened right when I'm doing put the run there no it's already occupied in your
[02:11:32] brain you see it's in but the thing doesn't work like that you put it there as essentially like an excuse
[02:11:39] yeah you know it's crazy so as I was running so now I'm running 20 minutes after I get done
[02:11:47] you yeah I don't think I've run on a full stomach for 15 years think about that 15 years I don't
[02:11:58] think and I don't think I'll run on a full stomach again for another 15 years because it felt
[02:12:02] very good awful and I don't roll I don't work out on a full stomach I don't like doing any
[02:12:07] that I can get away with like a workout depending on the workout not squatting on a full stomach
[02:12:12] because that's just not good but maybe I can do some pull ups on a full but yeah I was
[02:12:17] running on a full stomach I want to do that again I would next time because I wanted to you know
[02:12:22] like eat with my family you know that like let's eat time I would have eaten one forkful
[02:12:28] of food and not eaten and put it and then go for it's hang with the family go for run
[02:12:32] come back yeah that would be the power move and that's actually one of many power moves really
[02:12:37] the other power move is how about this yeah good for you you know running on a full stomach
[02:12:41] 15 years freaking run on a full stomach well I did that's what I'm saying no you know I'm saying
[02:12:45] like there's all kinds of things that you can just push through and still get it in this what I'm
[02:12:51] saying even all the way down to hey who cares if you're there if this person is coming over
[02:12:55] yeah that's that's that's that's the end of the world huh if you're not there you know not the
[02:13:00] end of the world but maybe not the best move at that time okay then we shift to the full stomach
[02:13:07] situation you did it you know or maybe the half stomach you know I'm just saying the opportunities
[02:13:12] always there you know this was in line with sort of this evolving attitude that I have now of of
[02:13:19] kind of a going hard against the weakness yeah I was like it's not only am I gonna run
[02:13:24] still I'm gonna run on a full stomach I just want a puke yeah all the freaking time because that's
[02:13:29] out you know so but I did the same exact thing but it was it was less complex for sure but it was
[02:13:34] like the window was closing like I can't get my full workout now because dinner time like I do you know
[02:13:40] I'm gonna eat dinner with the people you ever just do something super short and psycho though if you
[02:13:44] let the window close it but but you don't want to let it shut so you're like okay cool oh you want to be
[02:13:47] like that cool yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'll do that a few times when I had to like come
[02:14:02] here somewhere where if I'm late it kind of affects other people you know it's like it's my fault
[02:14:07] anyway you know so oh yeah I'll do that kind of stuff for sure but I did it with the dinner thing
[02:14:11] and I did a Mac on a full stomach and I even told you about it the next house like I was doing
[02:14:16] anyway it's a long story but yeah well thank you time lines let's rock and roll man
[02:14:23] sir alright okay look we're doing workouts we're not doing excuses we're what fighting against
[02:14:27] week this punishing weakness we weakness thoughts we're punishing ourselves for those thoughts
[02:14:32] or considerations but when you do that you know you join your body's take a beating specifically
[02:14:37] your joints from time to time okay jocquoise supplementation for that so some moments are
[02:14:46] jockel fuel joint warfare for your joints super krill oil for your joints vitamin D
[02:14:54] is it super vitamin D we'll just say it's pretty good help it though so let's say super yeah super
[02:15:01] it's not called super vitamin D okay maybe we need to help with branding on that one
[02:15:05] no man like you helped us with super krill I didn't help you I don't want to get it funny
[02:15:10] either way it's vitamin D nonetheless I'm gonna change the name too super right
[02:15:15] and the old day yeah for 100% so you know get on now and also cold war
[02:15:23] was it called like some cold killer or something for you can't say that can't say that
[02:15:29] because it kills cold you can't say that that's bad advertising what's the word
[02:15:34] this act like making some kind of medical claim yeah medical claim so we can't say that but we can't
[02:15:41] go to war against cold yes missile of defense tank what was it different the tank the cold war
[02:15:48] missile defense I say that cold war missile defense yes I do oh day I fight the war against
[02:15:54] colds every day it's a shit it's also disciplined regular discipline and the supplementation
[02:16:02] discipline cans powder pills whatever you need whatever your modality yeah big time little
[02:16:10] psychological hitter little bit of little bit of go jocco Palmer taking the lead sorry
[02:16:18] is it taking the lead it's leading right now it's leading I agree yeah I agree first flavors go
[02:16:24] yeah I had the long drive to Montana 17 hours all one go one go no I mean I stopped for gas fuel
[02:16:35] of course yes but the cool thing was just kind of FYI for your research in the future two
[02:16:42] discipline go cans just one at about one at about one at about midnight maybe one a clock in the
[02:16:53] morning and I had another one at like two or three that's the kind of that's the that's the that's
[02:17:01] once the sun's coming up you're good once the sun comes up a rock and roll but there's I guess
[02:17:06] maybe around four o'clock in the morning like you don't see as soon as you start seeing sun your body
[02:17:10] goes oh cool we're awake now yeah it's that three 34 or four 30 where your body thinks you should
[02:17:16] be asleep right freaking now get that hitter boy 17 hour drive so when would you time it like
[02:17:25] when do you leave like nighttime essentially yeah yeah you're right post time dinner departure
[02:17:32] okay that's I did it I'm to get my driven 17 hours ever ever cool not sure oh value
[02:17:39] that information but yeah yeah so milk don't forget about milk don't forget about you you
[02:17:49] probably need extra protein I had a milk before I came here today just because I have
[02:17:54] doms sure and I was like meaning delayed onset muscle soreness sure little heavy on squads
[02:18:01] yesterday and I have a lot of doms so I just kicked down some milk little extra protein
[02:18:07] plus I was in the mood for dessert even though I didn't have any lunch so anyway it's all this
[02:18:12] stuff jockelwight kids kids warrior kid milk you can all the stuff the vitamin shop
[02:18:18] we also make at or it all also you can get an origin main dot com if you want to support this podcast
[02:18:24] if you want to support America in general which if you want to support American general good on you
[02:18:30] get yourself some quality items you get yourself a ghee for your jiu jitsu get yourself a rash card
[02:18:37] four year jiu jitsu t-shirts jeans American denim boots you guys have the um Delta 68
[02:18:47] then the brute what's the regular one called the the factory jeans factory jeans is there like
[02:18:52] another what do you call it a model no that's the two models right now factory jeans heavier
[02:18:58] Delta jeans lighter which I know this is a little strange but you know
[02:19:04] no man I dig it you know Delta 68 some of the Montana was wearing a lightweight hoodie
[02:19:11] not you though no one may but they told me like to tell you that they supported approved
[02:19:18] there you know Montana by the way which is surprising you can't argue with the people
[02:19:23] I mean it's just you know it goes against your whole thing you know you know yes
[02:19:27] origin main dot com that's where all this stuff exists get something American made fully also
[02:19:34] jocco is a star school jocco store dot com this is where you can get discipline equals freedom
[02:19:40] death core good where it's all death core technically technique yeah for sure so yeah discipline
[02:19:48] you know the hoodies shirts hats lightweight hoodies it's a were rash guards for sure got some new stuff new stuff
[02:20:00] oh you've been caught in all kinds of stuff over there we have a few new things really good stuff utility
[02:20:05] and more utility we we have a shirt coming that may become sort of like the shirt
[02:20:13] actually I'm not making it just for me personally it might become the shirt that I end up
[02:20:19] wearing a lot you literally won't wear anything it'll be like remember back in the day when you
[02:20:24] so always wear victory even before the podcast yeah I look at all the old pictures of our
[02:20:29] stuff in fact there's sure as long as you've done it yeah it's like you can't even recognize you
[02:20:33] if you don't have that victory shirt on if even a picture like that even exists which I don't think it
[02:20:38] does it's gonna be one of those well we've had victory for what 10 years so yeah and so for a long
[02:20:46] time and we've been doing the podcast for five something like that coming up on five so that
[02:20:53] means for five complete years before this podcast the the one free t-shirt I had which I had a lot of them
[02:21:00] actually John Dudley asked me out there the we're off the Montana like the the fifth day in a row I
[02:21:05] posted up in a victory t-shirt he said do you just wear that or wash it or you have a thousand of
[02:21:12] my go not an a thousand of them but I got 10 yeah we have a light one and the dark one
[02:21:18] either way that's why you have the light one and the dark one of this new shirt I'll let you make it
[02:21:23] you know I'll let you uh what do you call it uh roll it out as it were reveal it anyway review
[02:21:29] this jocos jam big time anyway jocosstore dot com nuts where you can get your uh that's where you can
[02:21:35] write go get your stuff to represent on your on the path put it that way some new stuff so keep that in mind
[02:21:41] look if you want to know about new stuff or how should I want to know about new stuff Dave what
[02:21:47] sure does that this is a deaf core shirt but but it's available it's absolutely available it's called
[02:21:54] ops you have black ops you wear and he has I know I have the black one declassified let's
[02:22:00] call it a classified version but here's the deal the difference you know white shirt and a black shirt
[02:22:04] in the California sun is extreme yes sir so I like to wear a white shirt I don't have this one
[02:22:10] echo Charles yeah yeah thanks that must suck really but hey man you know I know that and maybe
[02:22:18] we'll get you on yeah so yes if you want a uh deaf core black ops or declassified
[02:22:26] talklstrad.com's you call it declassified yes I like it I like it when you sort of
[02:22:32] mingle with military turns you have some swings and you took a you have some misses
[02:22:38] don't know if you're suspect you you contact me yeah yeah say hey what would this be a correct
[02:22:44] usage of the word whatever yeah oftentimes I say yeah there is one thing I did and I think yeah
[02:22:53] it was you all the high speed low drag I was gonna use that in some it wasn't a shirt but it
[02:22:58] was in some other stuff I was doing and you're like hey don't do that don't do that because it
[02:23:04] wasn't like appropriate yeah I forget what it was because high speed low drag is definitely a term
[02:23:08] yes and it has a meaning I forget the way you used it I used it in a more serious way than it
[02:23:14] should be oh yeah that's not a serious term yeah it's kind of like that guy is high speed low drag yeah
[02:23:21] like for real it's kind of like you might say it about a pair of Gucci looking shooting classes yeah
[02:23:28] yeah that's what I learned oh yeah so anyway back to what I was saying hey if you want to get
[02:23:34] be in the know we have an email list on jocco store if you want to be in the know about some stuff
[02:23:39] I don't abuse this list at all in fact I underutilized it actually I tried trying my best to save
[02:23:46] it for important stuff the stuff that I think it's important so if you want to know about a new
[02:23:52] product some new board shorts that may or may not be on the way there's something like this
[02:23:59] if you're on the email list you will get notified for everybody I'm not saying our stuff sells out
[02:24:04] what if you have important new for what if you have important information about rolling front
[02:24:12] pens well you know hey look the that make the list usually stuff like that no thank you
[02:24:20] though for inquiring I mean we do have to clarify yes and so that's correct but important
[02:24:25] information about jocco store sign up for that email list hey we'll get that info to you and you
[02:24:30] have it before everybody else and boom will be all good we put the new t-shirt on there yes I
[02:24:36] know well yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that might be your son-outs or you just send the email how
[02:24:42] about that okay I'll send an email out when the new shirt is released subscribe to the podcast
[02:24:48] if you haven't already we also have some other podcasts we have the new podcast which is
[02:24:52] isn't on its own channel yet it's called the unraveling it was called the thread we had to
[02:24:58] change the name we also have the grounded podcast we also have the warrior kid podcast we have
[02:25:03] a YouTube channel by the way we have a YouTube channel that has all these podcasts on them you
[02:25:14] can see us except for the first seven because the first seven there was no video involved it's just
[02:25:18] voice even though we did the first podcast on like some kind of live stream if you try to
[02:25:24] yeah what you're saying is I don't remember we were having some trouble technical yeah so anyways or and then also
[02:25:33] some of these are there's some excerpts and there as well and there's also some things that echo
[02:25:39] trolls experiments with random and very over the top special effects on on just normal videos
[02:25:49] and he'll put 98 special effects into a two-minute video but this video right here which is going to be
[02:25:56] three hours and 40 minutes long there will be no no excitement other than just watching me crack
[02:26:02] up at my own jokes at the end of this podcast no additional excitement needed in my opinion so far
[02:26:08] there could be so many good little extra addictions and Easter eggs whatever you call them in this
[02:26:15] particular podcast so I'm about flanking people mortars 37 millimeters 88 grenades just think
[02:26:23] of all the cool stuff that could be flying around in here it's boss blowing up anyway also jockel
[02:26:30] has or we have an album with tracks called psychological warfare you know if you don't know what
[02:26:37] this is don't worry this this is going to help you it helps us so we're talking about inertia right
[02:26:46] object that is in state rest stays at rest tends to stay at rest and if it's in motion say anyway
[02:26:53] if you're battling to get into motion when you're currently at rest and it's hard sometimes it's hard
[02:27:00] I got this will help that is what I'm saying it's psychological warfare okay jockel telling you what to do
[02:27:05] not necessarily what to do but why you should do what you should do it's about accurate right yeah
[02:27:12] that's available wherever you can to MP3's also if you want a visual representation of those types
[02:27:19] of messages go to flipsidecampus.com my brother Dakota Myers makes stuff to hang on your wall got
[02:27:27] a bunch of books to code the evaluation protocol leaders substratting tactics field manual way
[02:27:32] the warrior kid one two and three micy in the dragons discipline acres freedom field manual
[02:27:37] extreme ownership and that I caught a minute of leadership you can get those books pretty much anywhere
[02:27:42] books are sold we have a consulting agency for leadership and what we do is we solve problems
[02:27:52] through leadership go to ascelonfront.com for details if you can't get with us live that's fine go to
[02:28:00] efomyn.com where we get granular with these things on a regular basis where you want to talk to me
[02:28:09] you want to interact with me go to efomyn.com you will you will ask me questions me on a zoom call
[02:28:17] you want to talk to Dave you want to ask him something go to efomyn.com you will interact with him
[02:28:22] you will ask him questions he will give you answers that's what we do on that channel was a bunch of
[02:28:27] training on that channel there's a forum on that channel so go to efomyn.com for that
[02:28:35] we also have the master coming up in phoenix Arizona September 16th and 17th
[02:28:42] and then Dallas Texas December 3rd and 4th check extremist extremal ownership.com for details
[02:28:50] we've we're going to be doing these looks like with social distancing so there's going to be
[02:28:55] less seats available which means I'm going to sell out faster we have efo Overwatch which is our
[02:29:04] placement firm we're taking people from the military and placing them into businesses so if you
[02:29:11] are a that looking for work or you are a company looking for leaders to come in your company
[02:29:17] they don't understand the principles that we talk about here go to efoverwatch.com if you want to
[02:29:22] help out veterans around the world service members around the world go to america's mighty warriors
[02:29:30] dot org that is marklies mom mommily helping all service people out you can go there and you
[02:29:39] can either donate or you can get involved and if you just can't get enough of my in terminable
[02:29:50] tirades or you need a little bit more of echo Charles's preposterous postulations
[02:30:00] or maybe just like to hear one more of Dave's jangling juxtapositions
[02:30:07] then you can find us on the inner webs on twitter instagram and on facebook
[02:30:11] davis at david berk david r berk
[02:30:13] b r k e echoes at echo Charles and i am at jacca we're like and of course thanks to all the men
[02:30:20] and women in uniform who allow us to live our lives the way we want to and that is in glorious
[02:30:28] freedom and to the police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and
[02:30:36] dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service thanks to all of you
[02:30:41] for protecting us and for keeping our nation a nation of law and order not a nation of chaos and
[02:30:50] anarchy into everyone else out there just just remember that the effect on most men
[02:31:02] of the impact of battle is to cause them to want to do nothing
[02:31:06] and it's the same thing with the slings and arrows of life we get pushed toward
[02:31:15] inaction and inactivity and indolence and the solution to that is that a determined effort must
[02:31:27] be exerted to accomplish things to accomplish tasks and that is on you and you know what that means
[02:31:38] it means get out there and get after it and until next time this is Dave and echo and jacco out