Jocko Podcast 24 with Jody Mitic - "Unflinching"

2016-05-25T03:31:21Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @JODYMITIC @echocharles Jocko reviews excerpts from Canadian Sniper, Afganistan Vet, and Ottawa (CANADA) City Councilman, Jody Mitic's book, "Unflinching" with personal, in-depth commentary from Jody himself.

AI summary of episode

So you know, we, so let's go back to Rick so Rick is a war officer, so do you guys maybe a pedi officer chief pedi officer Roughly he's like a company he was a company quartermaster, so he's not sergeant major, but he's like the next NCO down I'm going to guess he had about 18 20 years he would he had been a recon guy most of it, you know, I trained under him mentor to under him you know, it's like When you when you imagine casualties you're imagining private Smith and Corporal Jones and you know whoever But our first guy killed is a guy who trained his whole life for war, and he's the first guy gone You know, like there's no there's no status there's no seniority in combat. Well, it's, I think the reason that is is because it's so hard for people that Don't know what that brotherhood is like They don't know what it's like to want to do that They don't understand that that's That's the soldier in the child, that's the way you've wanted to be your whole life That's the way I want to be my whole life so to, for these things to happen is It's like feeling bad for an MMA fighter because they got punched in the face There you go for it You signed up for it and those guys, you know, they're there to fight And the military, you're there to fight and a byproduct of fighting in this situation Can be injury, it can be death Though the three days, it's almost like you hit a switch And suddenly the pain starts to dissipate The hollow feeling in your chest And just to fill back in The that stop crawling on your skin Because that's ergoing through all that I was grinding the stumps of my legs into the coach To give it some kind of other sensation Other than I described it as like It was like a dog, you ever watch a dog chew on a bone When he's going to between his paws and he's just going to town Like with his teeth, that's what it felt like On the ends of my legs my legs was like I had like an animal just knowing on my legs. and you know i got a podcast i'm starting the jodimitic podcast and uh their may or may not be an episode up uh and the next couple days but if people want to look for me there as well i'd be honored to try and entertain them as closely as you do and uh and as and as all the other podcasts i love to and you know i just do this to try and be me you know i don't know who the new jodimitic is i call i'm calling myself jodie three point old right now uh and and and and and this life is a trip you know i call myself a student of the human condition and i'm always learning i'm always learning and i and i love to meet new people and um Okay, we've got three wounded in action and one killed in action I said relaying the message that there were three wounded soldiers and one who was killed in the G-wagon that had been hit Every soldier had a zap number which would be used as an identifier in case you were wounded or killed in the field Standard operating procedure was that if someone died in combat you never revealed their name during the battle At this point we didn't know which soldier had been killed in that attack on the G-wagon And no one seemed to know the zap number either Finally the major got on the radio I need to know now who the fuck just got killed The radio crackled and a voice came on It was worn off Sir Rick Nolan sir Rick Nolan was the soldier I had had a brief argument with the day before I've always felt bad that our last conversation was a little strained Rick was a good man and a great soldier sitting in the front seat of that G-wagon He had no chance of surviving a direct rocket hit I looked at Barry and Cash we were all stunned in the silence Yeah, you feel like I'm pussy Even though you know you shouldn't feel like a pussy You feel like a pussy It's the most frustrating At the time it was one of the most frustrating things Because you want to be that guy for your for your for your woman Of course, I'm still that awesome alpha male that you fell in love with You couldn't whatever doesn't you know doesn't blink anything Except that water bottle inside the road right there What's that pile of garbage doing right there? You know how awesome You know guys are going to be jealous I had my legs blown off I'm going to be like Rob I'm going to be like Astroboy Be flying around And shit I'll have like Robo Coplegs or something Maybe I don't know I don't know what the thing like it's not like it didn't wreck anything like my career was fine like it was just well, I mean I lost a fiance out of it And I know I'm going to catch some, I might catch some shit from some guys that were there We didn't take our objective To this day You know what, 2016, you know, it's just 10 years later Almost, it's a 10 or a little bit 10 years And to this day, I'm like, we didn't take our objective but I wouldn't even be here if I had stepped on that landline I wouldn't have had these I wouldn't have these kids if I hadn't stepped on that landline after my second fiance walked out of the house and my you know like all I said that's my joke I like all good soldiers I have three ex fiancees and it does an ex girlfriend's sacrifice to the queen because we still swear allegiance to the queen because it's real that's like you said the teams come first and I had said well I'm going to retire about 44 with 25 years in so why don't I just start kids And me and another one of the guys from the regiment went to see him This was the first time I'd seen one of our guys hit by a land mind In fact, it was the first time I'd seen a casualty at all TJ was pretty banged up a couple of teeth were broken and he may have had a broken draw He had laceration's all over There's always a particular odor in the hospitals around people of suffered traumatic injuries I remember smelling that odor like blood or maybe just what I thought blood smelled like TJ was on a stretcher with big wheels We'd use this kind of stretcher before in training To me it was a kind of prop This thing we used for simulations But this was not a simulation This was the real thing TJ was still in shock It had taken a few hours for him to be extracted from the scene of the explosion Shorty and beer and Fenger are gone he said Yeah man, we replied, we heard I need a smoke man, I need a smoke TJ said The doctors and nurses wouldn't allow it but that's what I'm saying how can you know there's no course for that There's no course there's no course there's no training You know and and our military medical system was Like like the We have lots of medics we have doctors for things like spring dangles You're really I mean you should duck but the point is he's probably not going to hit you, but they whoever they left behind Were guys that knew what the wood knew what they were out knew what they were doing and I give them credit for that like You know they're not soldiers as we consider it, but they're tough guys You know and you guys you sniper team you guys didn't even have your body armor. Oh, well, I'm like, I've all the things to be laid for Yeah, that's right, a guy like, you want a guy like Jocco to think you're a shit You know, you're plug and can't make a timing He probably learned a lesson, but but that's the Mind said I'm looking for from day one from a guy that I'm going to put through sniper school because we don't we don't have a lot of numbers in Canada You know like I was telling you at any given time there might be a hundred and fifty maybe a hundred and eighty Snipers active at any time in the forces and that might and that you know if you add in our tier one tier two guys or maybe there's 200 and I was like what happened to my house and what is going on and like You know, what I told my dad when I went to Kosovo You know, in the book I taught what my dad one of the three times I've seen him cry in my life Was when I deployed to Kosovo for the first time and hear me out right because I was just like I was like I'm the city counselor and a lot of guys look up to me and this and that and all you know like got these kids Okay politics is not business, but there are some business aspects and that I am now dealing with people that aren't You know, I'm used to working in small teams with people that are professionals at what we do you know so snipers and even though that was 10 years ago that's basically my last real working environment That's what you know is that's what I know so if even if I'm the boss and you're my sniper so I guess in his civilian life this was something he got got into And in my mind I was just like okay, so he's gonna like leave on his own and go somewhere where again like in Miami, vice It's always like the worst part of town. And so I'd always try to envision a good being wound, okay, but it was like the cool scar across the cheek Or like some shrapnel in the rib cage I could show off a barbecue, you know, and talk about when I'm like 80 Yeah, so I've got some Taliban and menl in there I still remember when our seat when our commanding officer said he got we gathered up in the parade hall and he said When our CR is going to Kosovo and I still remember I was, you know, you know, you know, I have it at ease. And you know, that's the norm They don't like, when you sign up to be a Navy seal, they don't hide the fact that you might get gunfights It's like the first thing you read, it's in big, bold black letters You're gonna, you could get killed It's not in the small print at the bottom of the contract, you know, claws, B of Section 4 yeah here's how it closes out people often ask me if I regret my time in afghanistan because it cost me my two feet and completely changed my life if you live your life with regrets then you never move forward those six months in afghanistan before the explosion were some of the best times of my life I can honestly say as I look back on my life in the military I wouldn't have changed a thing if I hadn't stepped on that landmine I would never have connected with a Lana I would never have had two beautiful daughters my mind and body were pushed to the limit after my accident and ironically I came out on the other side a better more complete person maybe life would be easier now if I hadn't lost a part of both legs but it certainly wouldn't have been any more complete when I when I am in public today advocating for veterans rights or simply going about my daily life people sometimes approach me to say thank you for your service those five words mean more to me than anything else and now I'd like to say something jodie from me and on behalf of every american Canadian Brit australian and arrested a free world thank you for your service and your inspiration to all of us to overcome obstacles and to make a difference in the world thank you thank you man

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 24 with echo Charles and me, Jocco willing.
[00:00:09] And our guest tonight is Jodi Middick.
[00:00:13] Jodi is a former Canadian Army soldier and sniper who served in Afghanistan.
[00:00:22] He now serves as an elected member of the Ottawa City Council.
[00:00:27] You got second place in a show called the Amazing Race.
[00:00:32] He authored a bestselling book about his experiences.
[00:00:35] He's a husband and a dad.
[00:00:39] Beyond all that, Jodi is a real hero.
[00:00:44] An absolute inspiration to anybody that knows his story,
[00:00:49] which is what we'll be talking about tonight.
[00:00:52] Welcome to the show, Jodi.
[00:00:54] Thank you, Jocco.
[00:00:55] Did I miss anything?
[00:00:58] Jocco, make a fan?
[00:01:01] Thanks, man.
[00:01:03] Now I appreciate that.
[00:01:05] Also with us is echo Charles.
[00:01:07] Good evening, echo.
[00:01:09] Good evening.
[00:01:10] Now, before we dig into your book,
[00:01:13] I wanted to start off with an excerpt of a poem by Richard Kippling.
[00:01:21] And it's called the Young British Soldier.
[00:01:24] And I think this is a little bit appropriate since Canada's former part of the Commonwealth of England
[00:01:30] and now part of the Commonwealth.
[00:01:33] And while Kippling was never actually a soldier, he did attend the United Service College in England,
[00:01:40] which kind of prepared young men for the Army,
[00:01:43] although he never joined, but he did spend many years abroad in the British colonies.
[00:01:47] And he also lost his only son, John, in World War I,
[00:01:53] at the Battle of Luz, in September of 1915,
[00:01:59] where there was just about a hundred thousand casualties,
[00:02:04] in a matter of days, John Kippling was last seen,
[00:02:08] lurching through the mud blindly, crying out in agony.
[00:02:15] After his face had been ripped apart by an exploding shell.
[00:02:22] And this poem that I'm about to read a part of is not about World War I.
[00:02:28] It's about the British wars that took place from the 1830s to the early 1900s
[00:02:36] in a part of the world called Afghanistan.
[00:02:41] And here is this latter part of that poem.
[00:02:48] When first under fire and you're wishful to duck,
[00:02:54] don't look or take heed at the man that is struck,
[00:02:58] be thankful you're living and trust to your luck,
[00:03:02] and march to your front like a soldier,
[00:03:05] front front front like a soldier.
[00:03:10] If your officers dead in the sergeants look white,
[00:03:14] remember it's a ruin to run from a fight,
[00:03:17] so take open order, lie down and sit tight,
[00:03:22] and wait for supports like a soldier,
[00:03:26] wait, wait, wait like a soldier.
[00:03:33] When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's planes,
[00:03:38] and the women come out to cut up what remains,
[00:03:43] just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
[00:03:48] and go to your God like a soldier,
[00:03:53] go go go like a soldier.
[00:04:06] And I think that poem sets a tone for what kind of a place
[00:04:12] to Afghanistan can be.
[00:04:16] Yeah.
[00:04:19] It's been a while to hear that.
[00:04:21] Yeah.
[00:04:22] That last line's not a joke either.
[00:04:25] No, it isn't.
[00:04:30] I'm going to get there in your book here in a minute.
[00:04:32] Your book is called Unflinching.
[00:04:38] This is the book right here.
[00:04:41] And I kind of made that connection with the Unflinching part.
[00:04:45] You've been a sniper.
[00:04:46] You obviously can't be flinching when you're taking a shot.
[00:04:49] Right.
[00:04:50] And this whole thing kicks off the first chapter,
[00:04:53] which the name of the first chapter is awesome,
[00:04:56] because this is something that I believe is something
[00:04:59] that a lot of people have. I know I damn sure did.
[00:05:02] The first chapter is called The Soldier in the Child.
[00:05:07] And I think that describes a lot of people that joined the military.
[00:05:11] Yeah.
[00:05:12] That's the thing that's in there.
[00:05:13] They're born with it.
[00:05:14] You were born with it.
[00:05:15] I know I was born with it.
[00:05:17] Yeah.
[00:05:18] Tell everyone to do.
[00:05:19] Tell everyone to do.
[00:05:20] Tell everyone to do.
[00:05:22] Believe me.
[00:05:22] Now your mom, how did she feel about all that?
[00:05:25] She resisted like any 80s mom, right?
[00:05:28] You're a hell do you again?
[00:05:31] 44.
[00:05:32] So you're a little older than I am,
[00:05:33] but my mom being a foster kid,
[00:05:37] read all the books and all the books the time said,
[00:05:39] boy should play with Barbies and girls.
[00:05:41] You play with Tanka Trucks and treat them gender neutral and blah, blah, blah,
[00:05:46] but guess what?
[00:05:47] If you put boys in a room and girls in a room with toys,
[00:05:49] the boys play with Tanka Trucks and the girls play with the Barbies.
[00:05:51] I just the way it is.
[00:05:52] Yeah.
[00:05:53] And my fact my son,
[00:05:54] I had two daughters that were young
[00:05:56] and our house and I didn't want them.
[00:05:59] I'm not going to have them have all these Barbies.
[00:06:01] I don't even know where they came from.
[00:06:02] But they showed up at my house.
[00:06:03] Yeah.
[00:06:04] I guess what?
[00:06:05] My son was born and I was all worried.
[00:06:06] He's going to be playing with Barbies.
[00:06:07] That kid, he had kid didn't care about Barbies.
[00:06:09] He didn't care about all.
[00:06:10] They didn't look at him.
[00:06:11] He anything that had wheels on it.
[00:06:13] Yeah.
[00:06:14] It's just, and it's just,
[00:06:14] boys and girls are different.
[00:06:15] Yeah.
[00:06:16] They're just different.
[00:06:17] And, you know what,
[00:06:18] I know lots of women that are great soldiers.
[00:06:19] I'm not saying that they don't have it.
[00:06:21] But mom wanted, you know,
[00:06:24] no guns, GI Joe's, but no,
[00:06:27] you know, couldn't keep the weapons.
[00:06:29] And, you know, and I, and I love her for it because
[00:06:32] Who knows who I would have been if she had,
[00:06:34] maybe if she had fostered it,
[00:06:36] it would have, it would have fizzled out.
[00:06:37] I don't know.
[00:06:38] But yeah, all I want to do is soldier.
[00:06:42] Since I was a, since I was a little boy.
[00:06:44] So your mom had that attitude and then along came Uncle Jim.
[00:06:47] Yeah.
[00:06:48] Yeah.
[00:06:48] Uncle Jim.
[00:06:49] They don't tell us a little bit about Uncle Jim.
[00:06:51] Well, I mean,
[00:06:52] I just saw him the last week and actually he lives in Victoria.
[00:06:55] We're, we're Mr. Echo is born and he,
[00:06:58] when you're a child, right?
[00:07:00] There's nothing more impressionable than a three year old.
[00:07:03] Really, right?
[00:07:05] And when I was three, he would back then.
[00:07:08] If you were in uniform, you could ride the train for free
[00:07:11] and get the bus for free.
[00:07:12] And so he would ride the train in uniform when he had his,
[00:07:15] leave.
[00:07:16] And he'd show up at the house and he'd bring me teddy bears.
[00:07:18] And I was like, this is obviously the coolest dude ever.
[00:07:21] And whatever he does, I want to do it.
[00:07:23] And he would tell stories about what he did, you know,
[00:07:26] and he was, you know, he was an infantry soldier.
[00:07:28] Same regiment that I joined.
[00:07:30] And, and that was the seed.
[00:07:33] I assume no one really knows.
[00:07:35] This is just family lore.
[00:07:36] Right.
[00:07:37] Where, because mom didn't like it.
[00:07:38] Dad was a blue collar, auto worker.
[00:07:40] His dad was in the army,
[00:07:42] but it was like conscripted into the Serbian border guard.
[00:07:45] When the, when the, when the German army showed up,
[00:07:48] he basically threw his hands up.
[00:07:49] Was like, yep, I'm cool.
[00:07:51] Don't shoot.
[00:07:53] You know, mom's dad apparently was in the army,
[00:07:56] but no one knows because he died when she was 10.
[00:07:59] No one's really sure what he did.
[00:08:02] You know, apparently he was in Korea,
[00:08:03] but there's no record of it.
[00:08:04] So, anyway, it's just,
[00:08:07] it was there.
[00:08:08] And Jim, I think, was the catalyst.
[00:08:10] That sparked it.
[00:08:11] It sparked it when I was just a young little impressionable boy.
[00:08:14] That happens.
[00:08:15] Now, when you've got to be a teenager.
[00:08:18] You know, you kind of sounded in the book.
[00:08:21] You sound like, yes, you sound like a teenager.
[00:08:24] Yeah.
[00:08:25] And I mean, just to go here in your book,
[00:08:28] you say, I was a loner who didn't fit in.
[00:08:32] I still dreamt of being in the army,
[00:08:34] probably because I wanted to belong to something.
[00:08:37] Yeah.
[00:08:38] And it was definitely clear I didn't belong in school.
[00:08:41] I hated school.
[00:08:43] I hate, especially because when you get to high school,
[00:08:46] and I don't know how you guys,
[00:08:48] I've heard you talk a little bit about it.
[00:08:50] It sounded like you had the same issues.
[00:08:52] Couldn't connect with any of your teachers.
[00:08:54] The only teacher I remember I had this one teacher.
[00:08:56] I forget his name, but he was Scottish originally.
[00:09:00] And he was my history teacher.
[00:09:02] Like the only subject I cared about was history, really.
[00:09:06] And he would tell stories about everything else he ever did in life
[00:09:11] before he was a teacher.
[00:09:13] And I was like, okay, this guy actually has some shit
[00:09:15] that I need to hear because he's been around the world
[00:09:17] and he's done everything.
[00:09:19] The rest of them.
[00:09:20] I joined, I don't know if he came to teach you how to call it.
[00:09:23] I didn't know how to type.
[00:09:24] And I'd be like, why am I even here?
[00:09:26] What am I doing here?
[00:09:27] Doing math?
[00:09:28] I, you know, snipers, you know,
[00:09:30] we eat ballistic charts for breakfast.
[00:09:32] And math was useless to me in high school.
[00:09:35] And yeah, I just delass thing I wanted to be was in school.
[00:09:38] And I actually, because this was the 90s, right?
[00:09:41] So that was still when you could quit school to join the army.
[00:09:44] And I was like, oh, I'm just going to quit school and join the army.
[00:09:47] And my parents, like, basically had to beg me to stay.
[00:09:50] They let me join the reserves, which in Canada is called the militia.
[00:09:54] And it's like, once a week and a week and a month.
[00:09:57] And they're like, you can do that, but don't quit school.
[00:09:59] Finish school.
[00:10:00] All right.
[00:10:01] But it was like completely against my will.
[00:10:04] But they finally got you, they finally let you join.
[00:10:06] You joined the militia.
[00:10:07] Right.
[00:10:08] And then, but you weren't still in acupuncturne.
[00:10:11] Well, the militia in Canada, you can be called up to active duty.
[00:10:15] But it's not like we chatted a little bit about this on the way here where you guys
[00:10:20] have a different system here because yours is much bigger.
[00:10:22] But also like the militia in Canada was the military before World War Two, basically.
[00:10:29] So regiments were local.
[00:10:31] It was a part-time thing.
[00:10:33] You know, it was kind of like, it was the what is that?
[00:10:36] What do they call it?
[00:10:37] The citizen soldier.
[00:10:38] And the regular army was just there to kind of give them an enemy force and take care of the machine guns and the howitzers.
[00:10:46] Like, that doesn't there so that we had at the time.
[00:10:48] And it wasn't until after World War Two that it flipped because it was, you know, the Cold War started in all that jazz.
[00:10:54] So, you know, at any time, the regular army now into the 90s could say, you know what?
[00:11:01] We need 10 reserve soldiers to fill in a platoon here.
[00:11:05] And if you could volunteer, and I remember when I showed up to my reserve unit, there were sergeants sewing private stripes under their uniform because they were called up to the regular army.
[00:11:15] But you're not a sergeant.
[00:11:18] You're like, you're qualified because to keep guys in the reserves, they promote them fast.
[00:11:23] But when you go work with the regs, like they're not going to call you a sergeant, you've been in as long as corporal Smith.
[00:11:29] Uh-huh, private stripes, bitch. But guys, guys would fight each other to get those slots though.
[00:11:36] Because there was nothing better, more honorable than to deploy with a reg for his regiment.
[00:11:40] Absolutely.
[00:11:41] And go, you know, peacekeeping, but you know, there are still a few gun fights here and there.
[00:11:46] I thought this was cool in the book. You talked about this here.
[00:11:49] You're basically starting boot camp.
[00:11:51] And you say, you just get your haircut.
[00:11:53] Yeah.
[00:11:54] Get your head shaved for the first time.
[00:11:55] Once the barber was done, I studied myself and his mirror.
[00:11:59] I barely recognized the young man staring back at me.
[00:12:02] The eyes were the same, but everything else was different.
[00:12:06] I wasn't jody-middick.
[00:12:08] Lay about loaner, high school, good for nothing.
[00:12:11] Another floundering adolescent with no ambition and no life plan.
[00:12:16] That kid was lying under a pile of hair on the floor.
[00:12:20] Looking back at me was jody-middick soldier in training.
[00:12:25] I was good boss.
[00:12:27] So legit.
[00:12:28] Yeah.
[00:12:29] Well, so I had, at the time, lethal weapon, too, was my favorite movie ever.
[00:12:35] So I had like attempted.
[00:12:37] You're a straight male Gibson hero.
[00:12:39] Oh, dude.
[00:12:40] It was glorious.
[00:12:41] Oh, you should have seen it.
[00:12:42] Oh, it's next.
[00:12:43] Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:12:44] We've walked around smoking cigarettes and pretend.
[00:12:47] Yeah, anyway, just being ridiculous.
[00:12:50] But, you know, it happened to me again recently because I had grown my beard out
[00:12:56] and I had a bit of, I had some long hair and I did, I did it.
[00:13:01] I shaved the beard down to nothing and I went to the barber who usually, like,
[00:13:05] does his best to give me a little bit of length, but still make me look professional.
[00:13:08] And I said, I want you to give me a number one all around.
[00:13:11] That's what I'm talking about.
[00:13:12] And this was just, this was just like a month ago.
[00:13:15] And, you know, he did all that.
[00:13:17] You know, your skin feels cold because now the air is on it and I looked in the mirror
[00:13:21] and it was almost the same feeling I went, oh, oh, there he is.
[00:13:25] I was like, there's that soldier.
[00:13:27] And I remember the feeling because it was the guy's name was Markle.
[00:13:31] He was the Italian guy who cut my hair.
[00:13:33] And he couldn't believe it because he had fostered this ridiculous
[00:13:37] mullet for the last two years.
[00:13:39] And now I said shave it off because I showed him a picture of a marine.
[00:13:43] And I want to look like this guy.
[00:13:45] And when he shaved it and then it,
[00:13:47] it was like, I was at the starting line of like the biggest race I'd ever
[00:13:53] going to run in my life.
[00:13:55] And all I could think about was getting to the end and being successful.
[00:13:59] And it changed my life, man.
[00:14:01] It changed my life.
[00:14:03] Yeah, you know, one thing that, because when I was a kid, you know, I was into,
[00:14:07] this is going a little bit tangential.
[00:14:09] But I was into the hardcore scene on the East Coast.
[00:14:11] Yes, hardcore music. That's what I grew up with.
[00:14:13] And it was like, yeah, shaved heads, getting after it.
[00:14:17] But one of my best friend at the time, he's like, listen, you know,
[00:14:21] where part of this, where there's nowhere to hide.
[00:14:23] You can't hide behind your bangs.
[00:14:25] It's all right there. You got to face yourself.
[00:14:27] Nice.
[00:14:28] And it also strips away, you know, any kind of, I mean, hair is basically,
[00:14:33] what's that word?
[00:14:35] It's basically for show.
[00:14:37] I mean, what hair is?
[00:14:39] It's just, it won't beなる.
[00:14:41] Side.
[00:14:42] Because of the hair is, it stands out like normal fashion.
[00:14:43] So, you know, the hair isn't a alchemist.
[00:14:46] It's organized?
[00:14:47] So, you know, I know that I've never actually smoked a shots ever.
[00:14:51] So, I, there is no purpose other than I look good.
[00:14:53] So, let's just go ahead and remove that.
[00:14:55] I don't care what I look like.
[00:14:56] I'm here to win.
[00:14:59] So, yeah, I guess that may dissplay my hair cut.
[00:15:00] And so.
[00:15:01] But it, um, I'm glad you picked that sight that that paragraph because
[00:15:04] when I did this a month ago is, when I started my training for well,
[00:15:08] I know how to eat well. I know how to work out of a workout. I was like 16
[00:15:12] But I just wasn't it wasn't clicking you know, and I went the barber and I did that and it was like the switch went off
[00:15:18] Boom and there it was. It was like oh I'm back at that starting line
[00:15:21] I'm gonna be 40 in January. So I want a six pack before I'm 40. I don't know. So it's like I blown up. I haven't had one
[00:15:28] That's been 10 years
[00:15:31] Right on all right. So now we get into this next section now you're kind of
[00:15:35] Learning about what the army's like and here's some stuff that you said about it
[00:15:39] There was a system for everything in the army a way to stand and a way to sit a way to dress and a way to sleep
[00:15:46] There's also a way to a system for how to properly eat at the mess hall
[00:15:51] Our routine was an endless monotonous cycle. We woke up made our cops folded our sleeping bags in the exact way we'd been taught
[00:16:00] Once the tent was in shape it was on the barracks box
[00:16:02] Barric boxes we had to lay them out as instructed with everything in its proper place
[00:16:08] Whether it made sense or not we had to stand beside our kit and cops everyone perfectly still as the officer did inspection
[00:16:17] At the time I thought that so much of this discipline was overkill
[00:16:22] Why did we have to stand to detention when the officer was on the other side of the tent looking at some other dudes cotton kit?
[00:16:28] Why did our barracks boxes have to be identical?
[00:16:32] It took me a couple years to figure out that the skills they were drilling into us are actually really important for a combat leader
[00:16:38] If you can't still stand still long enough for morning inspection
[00:16:42] How can your commanders trust you to hold your post during a mortar barrage?
[00:16:46] How will a leader know he can count on you to be a useful soldier if you can't even follow through on an order
[00:16:52] meant to keep you in your comrades safe even if you don't know it at the time all these drills were training me to put self-discipline
[00:17:01] above my instinct to flinch or flee
[00:17:04] When everything in me told me to break my posture to stand down
[00:17:09] I learned to obey a different order instead
[00:17:12] It was basic training but I was assimilating some important skills that would later make me a better sniper
[00:17:24] Now I talk about discipline all the time and that's obviously why I honed in on this because you kind of captured
[00:17:31] The kind of things that they're teaching you discipline
[00:17:34] They're teaching you discipline and if you don't make that connection for all you young troopers out there that are getting ready to join the military
[00:17:41] There's a purpose there's a reason behind it
[00:17:49] A definite purpose
[00:17:53] And you know that's part of my book is the book that I wrote with Lave
[00:17:58] You know, I just wanted to call this a clinical freedom. There's another chapter in there. It happens to be called cover and move
[00:18:04] Yeah, and
[00:18:06] You know, we related to everything we do to me. There's no other tactic and again, I had to call this out in your book and by the way, I'm reading your book right now
[00:18:15] And I was trying to figure out how to do this. Yeah, like should I say, okay, can you read this section and then I thought to myself
[00:18:25] It's going to be different for you to hear it
[00:18:28] Coming from someone else to hear the words and when I looked up at you after reading that first section I was like he just enjoyed that
[00:18:34] I did
[00:18:35] Yeah, because you're hearing it. You can't you can never hear it when you hear yourself read it. You're it's like I don't know I have my own reaction because they're my words
[00:18:45] But especially from someone like like you someone who shared
[00:18:51] Relatively common experiences
[00:18:53] And you know, I was a snab or team leader. You were a you were a task force leader and for us to have a similar reaction to the same types of things is it's very interesting for me to see as well to see someone like
[00:19:09] Like, jacco read the same thing that I went through and go, yes, exactly because you got it. It took me a couple years to realize like I said
[00:19:17] Why am I standing here? This is stupid. This is because just go out. Let's just go with their entrain what you are training bitch
[00:19:24] You're learning how to do what you're told and you're learning how to back because if you take off from your barracks box
[00:19:31] Well, guess who's going to pay for it the guy next to you and you know beyond doing what you're told even in that paragraph you pointed out look the the inspectors look in the other direction
[00:19:40] You could easily break your posture. Yeah, you know, he's not going to see you. He's never going to catch you, but guess what you held the line. Yeah, you held the line
[00:19:48] And that's what you're learning is that no matter what no matter what people are looking at or not you're going to do your job that you're duty right it's your job. It's the job right it's the job and people
[00:19:59] What makes a good soldier at someone who understands their job is to be that soldier and I know okay
[00:20:06] I know what I'm saying and you know what I'm saying, but you got to go through that to really understand it and me and you can give advice all day to people like new new guys we get
[00:20:17] When you tweeted out I was coming oh, I'm getting ready to go on selection. I'm getting ready to go to just I want to be a sniper. I'm joining the infantry. What do I do? What do I do?
[00:20:25] I can give you advice all day. Jockel can give you advice all day, but man there's something you just got to learn on your own and that's that standing there with your boots polished at full at you know standing at the child
[00:20:37] Wondering why you had to iron your shirt again is going to help you later on when you're under enemy machine gun fire and mortars are coming down trust me. That's just going to help you
[00:20:49] But you're going to learn that on your own.
[00:20:51] Now back to cover move. Here you go talking about cover move in our pairs one guy would move forward while the other guy would shoot to provide cover the move would yell moving and jump up and move forward about three steps saying it is head up he sees me down
[00:21:07] While as partner covered him at down the mover would take cover going to ground taking up a firing position and yelling covering once in position
[00:21:15] Then his partner would move forward the same way the idea was to always have a foot on the ground which means one soldier is covering while the other is moving boom
[00:21:26] And you said to break that out on your own team at work now in the civilian sector right
[00:21:32] Yeah, yeah, we had lunch and the best thing I got out of reading your book
[00:21:37] My transition was a weird one. Okay politics is not business, but there are some business aspects and that I am now dealing with people that aren't
[00:21:49] You know, I'm used to working in small teams with people that are professionals at what we do you know so snipers and even though that was 10 years ago that's basically my last real working environment
[00:21:59] That's what you know is that's what I know so if even if I'm the boss and you're my sniper and I go echo I need you to take up this position I can go away come back that position's taken
[00:22:11] But when you're dealing with civilian staff who have never operated in that kind of or we say operated they've never worked in that kind of environment
[00:22:19] If I tell them to do something and walk away you better come back and check because they're not used to that kind of freedom because it's discipline but it's you're giving them I'm giving you the freedom to do the job I gave you
[00:22:32] You don't need me to double check that you took up the proper sniper position
[00:22:37] And then also the fire and the cover and move the foot on the ground I realized after reading your book I went so jocco just
[00:22:45] Basically was like listen dummy that's how I felt I felt like a dummy. I'm like of course I should have implemented this in the office
[00:22:54] My people were operating in silos because I had my my because I'm the sports commissioner for the city so I had a sports
[00:23:01] One of my assistants was on sports one of my assistants was on pop the policy one of my assistants was on
[00:23:07] Con constituency work and that's where you deal with the the voters who call it
[00:23:11] But none of them were talking to each other and I was only talking to them sporadically
[00:23:17] So I said okay guys from
[00:23:19] Starting today I didn't tell them why though. I wasn't like I wasn't gonna say hey this guy jocco gave me an idea. I said hey guys. I got an idea
[00:23:26] From now on CC you're gonna CC him and you're gonna CC him back whenever you send an email
[00:23:34] And then I'm gonna CC you and you're gonna CC me
[00:23:36] Within that week our productivity like 100% improvement because now instead of everyone was just aware of what what the others were doing and and their things that
[00:23:47] I
[00:23:48] Already know but now I got to learn to apply them in my civilian life
[00:23:53] Because I'm not working with highly trained snipers anymore. I'm working with people that are good at their jobs
[00:23:58] But not necessarily the way that I expect them to be and
[00:24:02] It you know there's so much we were talking about it right before we pressed record about
[00:24:08] Why is you your the last podcast was the art of war and and and to us it's kind of like a duck you know Joe Rogan says all the time. It's a duh
[00:24:17] That's a duh thing but
[00:24:19] There's so much you can take from that book and up and there's a reason why fortune 500 CEOs keep it in their desk because it you can apply a lot of what Sun Sioux said
[00:24:28] 3000 years ago to right now and just your daily life to your interactions with your kids interactions with your your boss or your subordinates or your supplier or your you know your your colleagues
[00:24:41] It's all right there. It's just you got a translate it, you know, it's not
[00:24:45] Difficult ground. It's you know, it's a position you have to take on an issue
[00:24:51] So
[00:24:52] Yeah, like I get I get it's a trip to me this whole life this whole thing. It's a it's human nature. Yeah, that that thread of human nature runs through
[00:25:03] From 25 hundred years ago, it's on Sioux through war through life through business through the relationships that you now have with your kids. Yeah, it's everywhere
[00:25:14] Kid
[00:25:15] Now you since you were a militia you actually went back to school after you went to boot camp. Yeah, so you get back to school. This is very typical
[00:25:27] Before militia training, I'd been so bored at school and found everything tedious and pointless but after eight weeks of soldier training school seemed like a breeze
[00:25:36] I started arriving on time and paying attention to lessons in the military you can direct your career according to your aptitudes and interests
[00:25:45] So I decided to do the same at school instead of taking classes I hated I picked ones. I knew I would enjoy my grades improved because I was doing more of what I wanted to do
[00:25:54] For the first time I had discipline and self direction
[00:25:58] And instead of all that energy being repressed or coming out the wrong way I had focus I went from being a loner and keeping to myself to becoming more outgoing and popular at school
[00:26:13] That discipline goes a long way
[00:26:16] It really goes along and see I went to college after I'd been in the seal teams for eight years. No, sorry 10 years
[00:26:24] So when I went to college I was like, oh, bring it bring it on. I've got to study every little thing you say and I'm going to know it better than you
[00:26:33] But I found I was a better student after going through boot camp and basic training and just like learning became easier. Yeah, oh, yeah
[00:26:45] Even if I didn't want to know what they were talking about. Yeah, and that's something that the army poses on you is that will teach you something
[00:26:50] For the first time you because in civilian world on your kid they go, you got to learn this and you don't study and next thing you know you don't really know it
[00:26:58] Then you take the test and you fail and you're like, oh, I'm not smart. I'm going to the army like, no, you will learn this
[00:27:04] And then you learn it and you say, oh, okay, that's how I learned I actually have to apply myself and study and now I'm going to get an A
[00:27:11] Which is awesome. So then now you still weren't active in the military and you want to get your factory work on
[00:27:17] Yeah, well, I was I was as active as I had to be because it's you know, it's part time right, right, and then you know, there was a girl
[00:27:27] Just beautiful Russian girlfriend and you know, dad got me a great paying job
[00:27:35] But I'll let you say yeah, no, that's that's good and then finally you were like, okay, I'm ready to
[00:27:40] I mean you worked in that factory situation for so long that you said I'm going to go well, that's about a year and I was making money that like it was like 25 bucks an hour
[00:27:50] I was 19 was a 96 I think and I hated it. I'm sorry dad if you're if you hear this because he got me the job, but it was his parent company because he was an union using the we had the Canadian auto worker
[00:28:05] down here with it's the United Auto Workers
[00:28:07] and
[00:28:09] and
[00:28:11] just it just it just it was soul crushing for me for me and nothing against guys I can do it
[00:28:20] There are guys that have worked there 30 years. They put the same rivet in over and over and over again for eight hours a day
[00:28:26] And they're masters at it and they love it and they punch their card and they go home and they do their thing wasn't for joty
[00:28:32] I know so you get back you now you go full active duty. Yes, come yeah you become a soldier by profession right so I I do what we call a transfer to the regular force and then on top of that usually you're supposed to go through training again
[00:28:52] depending on your level of experience because I was only both three years so I should have gone through
[00:28:58] What what back what's called battle school and that's that's the regular armies
[00:29:04] battle school to become an infantry soldier for whatever reason the decision was made that I wouldn't
[00:29:11] Okay, so you don't go back in and but you're our back active duty and now you think that joty was all super square to wait now, but you weren't for you
[00:29:20] Well, it was a rough transition jocco and
[00:29:23] Yeah, that came after
[00:29:27] Yeah, we don't you're actually do you right well, yeah, I'm a full time private I was a corporal in the reserves right busted back down to private
[00:29:36] Show up there's a lot of politics going on
[00:29:40] Right now and at this time because the regular armies being told it has to take reserves
[00:29:46] Whereas before it was like if you need them you can take them now it's even if you don't need them
[00:29:51] You're going to take 30%
[00:29:54] So you have a battalion of infantry guys. Let's say one RCR at full strength is usually at this time. It was about 700
[00:30:04] Cut 30% off of active duty good to go guys and now they're put aside and 30% reserve is show up to take their spot out. Yeah, so
[00:30:17] That and this was mandated by our headquarters and so the politics within the unit was kind of we're allowed to swear on this right?
[00:30:26] Yeah, the red forest guys are all like fuck you and the horse you came in on and and that horse is mom and anybody else associated with that horse
[00:30:36] I show up they thought because I was it they thought I was a reserve because the RCR has a reserve battalion
[00:30:42] So they thought I was a reserve RCR and then when they found out I was a direct entry which means I go directly from the reserves into the Reg force without going through the RCR battle school
[00:30:56] Huh, so they just gave you that cat badge
[00:31:00] Well, yeah, but I did basic training in the reserves
[00:31:03] Three years ago
[00:31:05] Oh, you did huh and I got man it was rough. It was a rough, but it and it got rough because you got in trouble
[00:31:14] Yeah, yeah, so I don't know why you by the way just so you know you wrote this in the book that's been published. Yeah acting like this didn't happen
[00:31:22] Now's a little bit too late. You got arrested. I did get arrested. I don't trust anyone who hasn't at least been handcuffed. Yeah, that's good point right
[00:31:29] I made a mistake so we were now I the preamble to this was that I did eventually get sent to the RCR battles and that's where I did get arrested
[00:31:42] Another one of the trainees and I well the whole platoon went out of course being young men. We somehow found ourselves at a gentleman's nightclub
[00:31:52] And we were enjoying our evening and one of the guys who decided he wanted to get some cocaine and I was held by 20
[00:32:02] I had never even seen this stuff except for in Miami, vice
[00:32:06] And I'm like what's the point we're already here. We're having fun. I've already got a few drinks got some girls sitting with us why why leave
[00:32:14] And he was adamant so I guess in his civilian life this was something he got got into
[00:32:18] And in my mind I was just like okay, so he's gonna like leave on his own and go somewhere where again like in Miami, vice
[00:32:29] It's always like the worst part of town. Guess what it was the worst part of town
[00:32:34] So I'm like okay, I'm gonna go with you. I don't I don't need any but but I'll be there in case they try to mug your jump. Yeah
[00:32:40] Or jump yeah turns out he was buying it from an undercover cop because you know like who else you're gonna buy it off right and then when after they bust us
[00:32:52] So we're like walking back to the club and like okay finally right I can get back and start hanging with the girls again
[00:32:58] So I get my drink on we get tackled by guys bigger than you and I and like they're the so they're the under the the night guys
[00:33:05] And they're like what do you do and you create they look at our idea. You're guys are in the army and you're going to smoke crack and I'm like
[00:33:12] What I look at the guy I'm like what's he talking about he's like well I might have
[00:33:18] They might not have had any coax I might have bought and I'm like oh my gosh, I'm just like
[00:33:24] But now that's the reality of my life right and I can't there's no going back. There's no changing it and it was it was
[00:33:32] It was at the time I described it as the worst year of my life
[00:33:37] But maybe it was the best the subsequent year because it taught me a lot about myself
[00:33:43] Yeah, and that's the main reason why I kind of wanted to tell that yeah, I wanted you to talk about that because
[00:33:49] Number one like you said it's a mistake that you made that
[00:33:53] You know I've had that feeling to before where you're you're just like okay, this is my reality now. There's no you can't go backwards. You're cuffed
[00:34:00] Yeah, and yet
[00:34:02] You had you transition from it and in the book here's how you kind of talk about that transition because they're going to send you back to
[00:34:09] Meford. What's it meford meford was the battle school? So they're going to send you to the battle school for another crack at it
[00:34:16] Your third crack. Well, my second crack at battle school, but my third
[00:34:21] Infantry course
[00:34:23] So here's what you did and by the way you were teeter tottering this whole time
[00:34:26] They don't know if they're going to kick you out they might let you in because just to everybody knows the cops even took your side
[00:34:31] And you know they said hey this guy didn't have anything to do with it, but didn't matter the military will sometimes
[00:34:36] guilty by association. Yeah, so the the the the the the the police department was like jodie you clearly
[00:34:42] Had nothing to do with it, but yeah guilty by association right and so
[00:34:47] They go back and forth find the you get orders. Okay. We're going to let you stay in and now you say this. I had two choices
[00:34:53] I could be pissed off forever and feel hard done by or I could go back to Meford with a new attitude and make the best of it
[00:35:03] I could keep my head high and get off the bus with the shiniest boots the best press uniform the best laid out kit and the best attitude and being the best shape of anybody there
[00:35:14] And that's what you did so I did
[00:35:17] So anybody that's out there that's listening to this podcast that hit a little bump in the road. That's what you do
[00:35:25] You show up with the best attitude the best shape
[00:35:30] With your head held high and you get after it extreme ownership you got to own it. Yeah, there's no hiding from it
[00:35:37] There's no explaining your way out of it. There's no side no sideways maneuver you're going to make your that guy
[00:35:42] I was that guy. Oh, there's that guy. Yeah, so now fast forward a little bit
[00:35:51] You deploy now you're now your legit part of the regiment. Yep finally and you deploy to Kosovo which at the time was a real world mission
[00:36:02] I'm sure you were fired up. I know I would have been fired. I think go to Kosovo, but I would have been fired up to go to Kosovo
[00:36:06] Oh, because it was the only game in town. I still remember when our seat when our commanding officer said he got we gathered up in the parade hall and he said
[00:36:16] When our CR is going to Kosovo and I still remember I was, you know, you know, you know, I have it at ease. You got your hand behind your back
[00:36:23] My hand went into a fist and I had to stop myself from doing a fist bump. I was like, yeah, you were going to become James Bond Chuck Norris and Rambo all
[00:36:32] One moment is going to be glorious
[00:36:35] So you go to Kosovo and and you know what we're kind of joking about it, but it was a legit mission at the time there was there was stuff that was happening there
[00:36:44] I like this little section here. You got you're talking about the Russians because your station near some Russian folks and you said this we like to think we're tough as Canadians
[00:36:54] But it turned out this Russian unit where we're Russian airborne who'd come from the fighting in Cheshnia
[00:36:59] And we've gone into some pretty good days talking about Cheshnia. We talked about Cheshnia in here
[00:37:04] These guys took things to a whole new level. They were hardcore soldiers. We would complain when our showers weren't giving us warm water
[00:37:12] Then we'd look over to the Russian camp and see soldiers outside in minus 25 degrees washing themselves with snow
[00:37:20] Or out in t-shirts cutting firewood
[00:37:22] These guys were sleeping in a world war two air attempts
[00:37:26] While we were sweating inside our heated barracks and every morning they'd be outside in the ball freezing cold running
[00:37:34] Doing chin-ups and bench pressing big truck tires
[00:37:38] These guys were legit. Yeah, yeah, and we didn't know there is some there was some stuff going on at the
[00:37:46] Pristina airport at that time. That's why they were there. Do you remember do you remember this situation at all?
[00:37:50] So NATO did its bombing thing, right? Bomb the Syrians out of Kosovo basically
[00:37:57] And then it was like okay, so a NATO stabilization for his K4 the Kosovo stable is whatever it was
[00:38:04] Was going to move in and you know everyone was going to get a sector British Russian or British Canadian French Bobbubla
[00:38:10] Right as we're like loading up on our vehicles that brigade or I don't know how many big it was of Russians just basically showed up
[00:38:21] In the middle of the night at the Pristina airport, which was also a military airport
[00:38:25] And they set up a perimeter around this like mountain bunker in there which just recently I read an article about it and they were like yeah
[00:38:33] Hey guys, it's been however it's been 20 years. This is what was in there
[00:38:37] Oh shit. It was full of stuff that shouldn't have been there. So that's that's why everybody was like what are they doing here? Why do they only want to be there?
[00:38:45] Because they were like yeah, we're here to help guys. We're just going to be right here in this area. Don't ever come in here or we'll or we'll kill you
[00:38:51] But we'll be right here. We're just here to help. Don't big deal. We want to we want to be part of the part of the exercise
[00:38:57] But they were there to guard this this like bunker and there is like a lot of there is like I guess there is some nuclear biological weapons in there and and some migs
[00:39:05] That should never have been in that part of Europe apparently and in the middle of the night you'd hear planes taking off and nobody knew what they were
[00:39:17] But you know nothing really of substantial events happened in Kosovo
[00:39:22] You get home from that and this is when you get the opportunity to go to sniper training, which is
[00:39:27] You know outstanding and and I thought you did a great job here of pointing out what a
[00:39:33] Snipers because people have little ideas in their heads about what a sniper is and here's jodys version of what a sniper is a
[00:39:43] True sniper is someone who's willing to do pretty much anything to accomplish the mission
[00:39:49] The sniper has a particular mindset and shooting is actually one of the easier parts of the role
[00:39:55] I've seen men at the rifle range who are amazing marksmen, but who would be terrible snipers because they don't have the patience they lack the ability to deny their own needs and to put the mission first
[00:40:10] A true sniper will make himself uncomfortable just to make the shot
[00:40:18] That is something so true the guys think that the that what a sniper is someone that shoots really well
[00:40:24] Yeah, that's that's the least that's the easiest thing I can teach you right if I need you to be a sniper that's the easiest thing I can get you to do you know the movie shooter
[00:40:35] With our buddy Mark Wahlberg there. I have not seen it. It's based on a book about
[00:40:40] A Vietnam era sniper or something but anyway, he takes this like guy who just teams up with them for the movie and he makes them the shooter like the the he teaches him how to shoot because that's the easy per
[00:40:53] All that other stuff I talk about that's the part I'm looking for that's what I'm looking for in a sniper
[00:41:00] You can shoot all day. I could put you on the range and you could shoot bulls eyes from 900 meters all day as long as you got your gatorade as long as you get your 10 minute break
[00:41:09] As long as you get up and go pee pee
[00:41:11] But what if I don't let you do any of that stuff
[00:41:14] Then what oh is it sunny out on less too bad. Yeah, it's sunny out. Well, it's always it gonna rain. Yep. Don't get up
[00:41:22] Your target might come up, but what if there's ants crawling and biting your eyes?
[00:41:27] The eyes is problematic. I would it I would allow you to scratch the answer to your eyes, but but your target might come up while you're scratching
[00:41:34] It
[00:41:36] I wouldn't get up if I was you the
[00:41:38] All the sniper courses definitely you talk about in the book you talk about stalking and that's something that no one I haven't seen that movie
[00:41:44] But no one really understands the difficulty and the challenging and the self discipline
[00:41:49] It's an exercise to self self discipline to crawl
[00:41:52] You know one meter every 10 minutes it's hard to get to position where you can see your target take the shot because you have to yeah because you have to have the patience to and the mindset to like
[00:42:07] I don't know if it made it into the book. I can't I know you should know your own book, but I
[00:42:12] Remember as leopard crawling with a guy and we were on it wasn't even a sniper thing. It was just like a feel like a like a
[00:42:19] Field craft thing so we were learning how to just stalk just as soldiers and we were we were side by side, but he was literally on an elevation
[00:42:27] Maybe four inches higher than me
[00:42:31] I remember I was looking at him and I was like, I just that's not a good spot to be yes
[00:42:36] Freeze boom Walker came over God. I was it. I was in direct line of sight
[00:42:41] But I was just that four inches lower. You got to like have the patience to look at the ground and go
[00:42:46] I'm going to go this way even though it's out of your way because you can't be with insight of
[00:42:52] Of the spotters or of the enemy and that guy went on to become
[00:42:57] Our tier he joined our tier one unit. He's a he's a JTF guy
[00:43:02] But I remember at that time it's so it's not like he was a dummy area and and and we're might have learned a value of the lesson. He probably learned a lesson, but but that's the
[00:43:10] Mind said I'm looking for from day one from a guy that I'm going to put through sniper school because we don't we don't have a lot of numbers in Canada
[00:43:17] You know like I was telling you at any given time there might be a hundred and fifty maybe a hundred and eighty
[00:43:22] Snipers active at any time in the forces and that might and that you know if you add in our tier one tier two guys or maybe there's 200
[00:43:30] So I don't have time to to go looking for the best guys, you know
[00:43:35] You have to come you basically got to come to us and and so I'm looking for the patient
[00:43:42] I'm looking for the guy who's going to take that extra five minutes and look at the ground
[00:43:47] He's who's not going to when I tell him okay, you can go go start stalking who's going to sit there for another five ten minutes lose that time
[00:43:54] But study the route on his map
[00:43:56] You know because it's easy to start run and then you go oh man, I shouldn't know where I'm going and
[00:44:02] No, no time spent on the map is time saved on the ground
[00:44:06] Right and you so you're looking for that guy and there's just it's a it's probably the same with seals you just you don't it's hard to describe but you know it when you see it
[00:44:18] So you get done with sniper school
[00:44:21] You spend some more time and then
[00:44:25] September 11 happens game on and
[00:44:29] And the opportunity comes up
[00:44:33] For you to go and deployment now you'd already been through sniper school you were a sniper, but the opportunity there's no opportunity for sniper deploy what they need is a driver
[00:44:42] right which
[00:44:45] A driver slash
[00:44:47] Security yeah, which is which is I mean it's definitely a dangerous job. It's definitely a monotonous job. It's not it's not a glorious job by any stretch
[00:44:55] But and also what's rough about being a drivers you have a lot less control over your own fate
[00:45:02] I mean you're basically in a defensive situation when you're driving in a convoy you're in defensive situation. That's all that is to it
[00:45:08] So here you are you get your target. Yeah, your target. You've been trained to be the hunter
[00:45:12] And now you get an offer to go on deployment to be the hunted base as a driver and of course because your
[00:45:18] A warrior you say oh, you need a driver. You don't need a sniper, but I'm going to go to Afghanistan
[00:45:26] All right, bring it on. Yeah, that was it. It was stay home or be a driver
[00:45:33] Pretty easy. So get this pretty simple. So now you were trying what were these little deep you drive it out this so it's
[00:45:41] It's
[00:45:43] What do you guys got that's comparable nothing? Um, do you just like a little land rover type vehicle? Yeah, but it's like not even like it's it's it's almost a class of its own is it
[00:45:55] No, it's like a little
[00:45:58] Dune buggy looking thing it had like a four cylinder engine build originally by Volkswagen
[00:46:04] We they were roughly the same like look as a original willys Jeep
[00:46:11] But that's where the similarities ended and you get to Afghanistan and you're you're drive where are you?
[00:46:19] Kabul that was Kabul. And so you're driving people around the city. Yeah from base to wherever they got to go from the airport to our main base, which was
[00:46:28] Was the name of that camp again
[00:46:30] I'm sorry, I forget the main camp we had in Afghanistan, but it was between the King and Queen's palace got it and
[00:46:39] Yeah, they'd go there or because it was
[00:46:43] Officers and liaison officers mostly that we worked with right it so it'd be like goliies on with the Turkish guys goliies on with the Germans goliies on with this Afghan war lord
[00:46:52] You'd sit around ways. Yeah, yeah, basically and we'd be as bodyguards when he was there and stuff and
[00:46:57] And like we said there's a threat. You you obviously were prepared for anything of course, but you know, there wasn't a super high threat
[00:47:08] Right, however
[00:47:11] There's always a threat and I'm going to the book here
[00:47:17] The eldest jeeps were not designed to withstand an attack
[00:47:21] This fact became starkly apparent when three three RCR guys were driving to Eltis and hit a land mine
[00:47:30] Two of them sergeant Robert short and corporal Rob Beer and Fenger died immediately
[00:47:38] And the driver TJ Sterling a friend of mine survived though he was injured
[00:47:44] After the incident TJ was brought to the hospital at camp warehouse
[00:47:48] And me and another one of the guys from the regiment went to see him
[00:47:52] This was the first time I'd seen one of our guys hit by a land mind
[00:47:56] In fact, it was the first time I'd seen a casualty at all
[00:48:01] TJ was pretty banged up a couple of teeth were broken and he may have had a broken draw
[00:48:07] He had laceration's all over
[00:48:09] There's always a particular odor in the hospitals around people of suffered traumatic injuries
[00:48:14] I remember smelling that odor like blood or maybe just what I thought blood smelled like
[00:48:20] TJ was on a stretcher with big wheels
[00:48:23] We'd use this kind of stretcher before in training
[00:48:26] To me it was a kind of prop
[00:48:30] This thing we used for simulations
[00:48:33] But this was not a simulation
[00:48:36] This was the real thing
[00:48:38] TJ was still in shock
[00:48:40] It had taken a few hours for him to be extracted from the scene of the explosion
[00:48:45] Shorty and beer and Fenger are gone he said
[00:48:50] Yeah man, we replied, we heard
[00:48:53] I need a smoke man, I need a smoke TJ said
[00:48:57] The doctors and nurses wouldn't allow it but as soon as they were out of the vicinity
[00:49:01] We lit a cigarette for TJ and gave him a couple of drags
[00:49:05] That's way better thanks
[00:49:07] We stayed in Chadwick, TJ about some
[00:49:11] In consequential things trying to keep a fellow royal in a good state of mind
[00:49:16] For me personally, I was learning from what was happening
[00:49:20] Facing the reality that when things go wrong
[00:49:24] You have to get that smell in your nostrils
[00:49:27] And look those sights right in the eye
[00:49:30] Sadly, a few years later, TJ ended up taking his own life
[00:49:34] I was a Paul Barrett as funeral
[00:49:38] And as I carried his coffin, I wondered if he carried guilt
[00:49:42] For being the lone survivor in that incident
[00:49:45] So really to me, that's like you're welcome to war
[00:49:48] Yeah
[00:49:52] And
[00:49:54] And
[00:49:57] Yeah
[00:50:05] When you talked about getting that smell in your nostrils
[00:50:10] And looking those sights right in the eyes
[00:50:13] That's how I think it's important for people to remember
[00:50:16] You know when things are bad
[00:50:19] Some people want to deny that it's happening
[00:50:21] They want to hold their nose and shield their eyes from it
[00:50:25] Wrong answer
[00:50:27] Breathe it in
[00:50:29] Yeah, and our gig, especially
[00:50:32] Breathe it in
[00:50:34] You have to
[00:50:36] That
[00:50:38] You have
[00:50:40] And our line of work, that's the norm
[00:50:43] And I'll tell you, I haven't working with
[00:50:46] Worked with a bunch of different companies and bunch of different industries
[00:50:51] They run into these situations too
[00:50:54] Where their company is going to fail or there's a problem
[00:50:57] There's things go wrong
[00:50:59] And no, you know what?
[00:51:01] Lives are not at stake and I say this all the time
[00:51:03] But livelihoods are
[00:51:04] And if you're the CEO of a company, you're going to have to now lay off
[00:51:07] 500 people, 1000 people, 3 people
[00:51:10] And now that person is not going to be able to afford their mortgage or pay for their kids
[00:51:13] Or get food on the table
[00:51:15] That is serious business
[00:51:16] You're ruining someone's life
[00:51:18] And if you want to shield your eyes at that moment
[00:51:23] And you want to hold your nose so you don't have to smell it, you're wrong
[00:51:27] Yeah
[00:51:29] And obviously this too here for TJ
[00:51:36] This is, you know, we're talking about the psychological wounds that people get
[00:51:40] Yeah, which for him more worse than his physical wounds
[00:51:43] Yeah
[00:51:44] I remember one time after I got hit
[00:51:46] Because he actually came back with us
[00:51:50] And it was six on the tour I was wounded on
[00:51:53] And he stayed in the talk the whole time
[00:51:56] But I remember we were back and I was hit
[00:52:00] And we were at his house and we're having a little bit of a party
[00:52:03] And he was crying because he couldn't believe that he, because he got
[00:52:08] He was wounded and he got a monthly stipend for his injuries
[00:52:12] And he was still active doing and stuff
[00:52:14] And when I wound it we had a new veterans system come in
[00:52:19] Where I just got like a lump sum payment
[00:52:22] And he was crying about how is it that he can get this money
[00:52:26] But I only get this money and Joey, what happened to you is so much worse
[00:52:30] And what happened to me and I was, why you worried about it
[00:52:34] I'm okay man, I'm alive, we're here having some drinks
[00:52:37] But he was so tore up inside about what happened to me
[00:52:41] And he happened to me versus what happened to him, what happened to Shorty and Baron finger
[00:52:46] And he just carried that
[00:52:49] And you hear about that survivor's guilt thing
[00:52:53] And you don't realize how real it is till you see it
[00:52:57] And even after I got wounded when I came home
[00:53:01] I felt like shit because my boys were still back there
[00:53:04] And then when they went back in 2010
[00:53:07] Because our unit rotated back into theater
[00:53:09] It killed me, I was dying inside
[00:53:13] Those are my guys, you know, they're over there without me
[00:53:17] And I'm letting them down because I told them I was going back with them
[00:53:20] I said don't worry guys, I'll get better I'll go back
[00:53:23] And I had to like really come to grips with that
[00:53:26] And you know, TJ couldn't
[00:53:30] We lose too many guys that's to that stuff
[00:53:33] But I've all, I don't know, I never had those thoughts
[00:53:36] But I never thought of ending my own life ever
[00:53:40] But I've known enough guys that have done it
[00:53:43] That clearly it becomes an option to some people
[00:53:47] And I'm at the point with it because it just happened
[00:53:51] Maybe a month ago with a guy I worked with in the Green Braise
[00:53:57] And I just don't think we can save them all
[00:54:00] I don't know if any of you are guy, I mean I think I texted you when it happened
[00:54:06] You did, you texted me
[00:54:08] And I want to really, my wife, Alana, she's never seen me cry
[00:54:13] And I cried that night for Johnny
[00:54:16] And it was because we thought we had him
[00:54:20] He was living at one of the guys, how he said was on the team that we worked with
[00:54:24] He had a girlfriend and things were looking good
[00:54:27] And you know, I've had to come to the conclusion
[00:54:32] In my own mind that we're not going to save them all
[00:54:37] And this is a side effect of the life we chose
[00:54:41] That some of our comrades are going to go that direction
[00:54:44] And if I was to dwell on it the way TJ did
[00:54:48] Then I would become like TJ and I can't afford to do that
[00:54:51] You know, use the word Dwell
[00:54:53] And that's a word that I use as well
[00:54:57] I use the word Dwell and I always say
[00:55:01] That you got to face these things
[00:55:04] You got to understand these things
[00:55:06] You got to actually embrace these things
[00:55:09] You got to bring them in but you can't to well on them
[00:55:12] That's right
[00:55:13] And I think that's the key
[00:55:15] Is to, is honestly to do what you said
[00:55:19] Is to breathe it in
[00:55:20] So look it in the eye
[00:55:23] Deal with it
[00:55:25] Don't stay there
[00:55:27] That's right, move on
[00:55:29] Accept it as a consequence of the actions you've chosen
[00:55:32] And move on to the next step
[00:55:34] Otherwise, you'll be that guy
[00:55:37] Talking about that high school football pass that you caught
[00:55:40] It's an analogy that fits here
[00:55:43] Because we talked about this in your car
[00:55:46] There's some guys
[00:55:46] I was a neighbor, I was a Navi seal, I was a paratrooper, I was a machine gunner
[00:55:51] Whatever it is, I was a jitsu black belt, whatever it is
[00:55:55] And that's where they're stuck
[00:55:57] That's where they're dwelling there in purgatory
[00:56:00] And that whatever ring of hell you want to call it
[00:56:04] Stuck in that moment
[00:56:06] And you got to move on
[00:56:08] You can't dwell because that's where you're going to die when you dwell
[00:56:11] It really simply
[00:56:13] What you got to do
[00:56:14] It's you got to just take a step
[00:56:17] Got to take that step forward
[00:56:20] You got to look, you got to look it in the eyes
[00:56:23] Then you got to walk away
[00:56:26] And you got to walk forward and move forward
[00:56:29] And make some make go in another direction
[00:56:32] Go forward
[00:56:33] Yeah
[00:56:34] Don't go backwards, go forward
[00:56:36] And the other part is accept
[00:56:39] That maybe you can't change things
[00:56:41] You can't change what's happened in the past
[00:56:45] You cannot do that
[00:56:47] It happened
[00:56:49] And you're not going to change it
[00:56:53] So what are you going to do?
[00:56:55] Are you going to let it drag you down?
[00:56:57] Are you going to dwell on it forever?
[00:56:59] Don't do that
[00:57:01] I know it gets a hold of you
[00:57:03] I know it's a tough one
[00:57:05] But deal with it
[00:57:07] Accept that you can't change it
[00:57:11] Accept that you're here for a reason
[00:57:13] To do something
[00:57:15] You have the opportunity that maybe your buddies didn't get
[00:57:18] They didn't get, never mind
[00:57:20] You have an opportunity that your buddies did not get
[00:57:22] You think they would want to have you kill yourself?
[00:57:27] No, they'd want you to live
[00:57:30] But that's what you need to do
[00:57:33] Honor them
[00:57:35] By living a awesome life every day
[00:57:40] Make the change, be the difference
[00:57:42] You can't change the world
[00:57:45] But you could change somebody else's day
[00:57:48] You can be the positive influence in your little tiny sphere
[00:57:52] My influence in the world, yours, echoes
[00:57:56] It's not the world
[00:57:58] But it makes someone else happy
[00:58:00] You can be the difference between a good day and a bad day for someone
[00:58:03] When I decided that I was going to try and become an officer in the sealed teams
[00:58:08] Part of that, part of my decision
[00:58:11] I was going to be an admiral or whatever
[00:58:14] And I said, you know what?
[00:58:17] Because I had a prior and listed officer that was just made our lives
[00:58:20] Awesome because he was such a great guy
[00:58:22] I said to myself, you know what?
[00:58:24] I might not change the world
[00:58:26] But I'm going to have a cool sealed pool two in one day
[00:58:29] Those guys are going to be fired up
[00:58:30] And we're going to kick ass
[00:58:33] Just my little world
[00:58:35] Just that little thing
[00:58:36] And no matter where you are, you got that little world
[00:58:39] Maybe like you said, maybe it's one of the person
[00:58:41] Maybe it's just yourself
[00:58:43] But you make that little part of your world a little bit better
[00:58:46] You wake up in the morning
[00:58:49] I firmly believe you decide how that day is going to go
[00:58:53] Absolutely
[00:58:54] I missed my flight to come down
[00:58:57] I should have been here yesterday, I missed my flight
[00:59:00] I owned that
[00:59:02] I had a bad morning
[00:59:05] And I was, I think I was even on the phone with you
[00:59:08] And I said, yeah, extreme ownership
[00:59:10] My fault
[00:59:12] And you giggled at me and you said, yep, own it, whatever
[00:59:18] And then I might get my one assistant called me
[00:59:22] And I said, you know what?
[00:59:24] I'm done being pissed off
[00:59:25] You know, because I can't, I'm not going to let this one thing ruin the rest of my day
[00:59:30] And the rest of my weekend
[00:59:31] How's that helping you move forward?
[00:59:33] How's that helping the rest of your day?
[00:59:35] How's that helping you get here right now?
[00:59:36] Doesn't help anything
[00:59:37] That doesn't mean that doesn't mean be a robot either though
[00:59:40] No
[00:59:41] Deal with it, process it
[00:59:43] Don't get me wrong
[00:59:44] I was really mad yesterday morning
[00:59:46] And it takes a lot
[00:59:48] He's waiting for you down here
[00:59:50] Oh, well, I'm like, I've all the things to be laid for
[00:59:53] Yeah, that's right, a guy like, you want a guy like Jocco to think you're a shit
[00:59:57] You know, you're plug and can't make a timing
[00:59:59] But
[01:00:01] You know, everything's gonna be okay
[01:00:04] I'm here, we're still doing the podcast
[01:00:07] It's beautiful weather
[01:00:09] I got to see my kids, I got to pick them up from school
[01:00:11] Because I didn't think I was gonna
[01:00:13] I got to, you know, I got to see some friends
[01:00:16] Walk the dogs that day
[01:00:17] But I made that decision myself though
[01:00:20] I was sitting on the edge of the bed
[01:00:21] I didn't have my prosthetically exon yet
[01:00:24] And I said, okay, you're pissed off, now you're done
[01:00:27] And I got up and I carried on with the day because
[01:00:30] And I, okay, it's easy to say
[01:00:35] What's easy for us to say
[01:00:37] Take that step, don't dwell, move on
[01:00:40] But I firmly believe if you decide
[01:00:44] You can change your circumstance
[01:00:48] That's a decision you have to make in your own mind
[01:00:49] I firmly believe it
[01:00:52] And it might not feel like it today
[01:00:54] But try again tomorrow
[01:00:56] And then try again the next day
[01:00:58] And you know what call me
[01:01:00] Before you make any decisions
[01:01:03] Just please just call me first
[01:01:05] If you have Jocco's number call him
[01:01:08] Because the world is definitely better with you here
[01:01:12] Than without you
[01:01:14] And I hate to keep hammering this nail
[01:01:16] But it's just a theme that I'm tired of here
[01:01:21] A buddy of mine, another sniper had a heart attack
[01:01:24] Not long after
[01:01:27] That guy killed himself
[01:01:29] He's a great dude, he's a legend in the Canadian sniper world
[01:01:32] And he was diabetic and he smoked a thousand cigarettes a day
[01:01:36] And drank a million beers a week
[01:01:38] And they said the heart attack was so fast
[01:01:42] He probably was because they found him in bed
[01:01:43] He was crawling into bed and probably went
[01:01:46] And it was dead before he just had even hit the pillow
[01:01:48] That's how massive a heart attack it was
[01:01:50] When I heard it was a heart attack, I was actually happy
[01:01:53] Because when I heard it, I went
[01:01:56] I just went shootin with him
[01:01:58] He was in a great mood
[01:01:59] Oh no no no no no no no it was a heart attack
[01:02:01] And I went, oh thank God
[01:02:02] That's the point of that
[01:02:04] With that subject
[01:02:06] So anyway
[01:02:07] Let's move on man
[01:02:08] It's talk about puppy dogs and rainbows
[01:02:10] Okay, we're not there yet
[01:02:10] No no no no no no
[01:02:12] I was a good reference you know miss my flight good
[01:02:15] I can bring my kids to school
[01:02:17] You know all this good they can't run
[01:02:20] So, I would like to go rainbows
[01:02:23] But we're not there yet
[01:02:24] All right brother, hit me
[01:02:26] So now you're
[01:02:28] You're coming back for Afghanistan
[01:02:31] And you know you got your girlfriend and what not
[01:02:34] And
[01:02:36] Here we go
[01:02:37] My first tour in Afghanistan ended a few weeks later
[01:02:41] And I headed back home
[01:02:43] I was still haunted
[01:02:46] By all the things I had witnessed in Kabul
[01:02:49] Images played over and over in my head
[01:02:51] Whether it was small children begging for money
[01:02:53] A mother holding a dead baby in the streets
[01:02:56] Or my buddy TJ bloodied up from a roadside bombing
[01:02:59] My girlfriend expected me to return as the same guy
[01:03:03] Who had left six months earlier
[01:03:04] When I was a different man now a different jodie
[01:03:08] Everything around me looked different too
[01:03:12] Maybe things hadn't changed much
[01:03:14] But I felt like I was on an alien planet
[01:03:18] My girlfriend had redecorated the house
[01:03:21] Moving some of the furniture around and re-paining the bedroom
[01:03:23] And I found it upset me
[01:03:25] Life had gone on without me
[01:03:28] And that fact was hard to take
[01:03:30] People around me kept saying
[01:03:31] What's wrong with you jodie? You've changed
[01:03:34] And that would make me even more upset
[01:03:37] Not because they were wrong
[01:03:40] But because I thought I was the kind of soldier who could just walk it off
[01:03:46] But few soldiers can
[01:03:49] It takes time after a tour duty for a soldier to readjust a civilian life
[01:03:53] And I wish I'd known that earlier
[01:03:55] I was expected to continue life just as I had lived
[01:03:58] It before my tour but I couldn't
[01:04:01] Not right away
[01:04:03] I couldn't step back into my normal routine
[01:04:05] As if I hadn't witnessed anything on mission
[01:04:08] I couldn't just hop in the car and go to the grocery shopping
[01:04:13] Like everything was fine
[01:04:19] It's interesting that you kind of felt like
[01:04:21] You were weak sauce because you were not the exact same before you went on to point it
[01:04:28] Yeah, you feel like I'm pussy
[01:04:31] Even though you know you shouldn't feel like a pussy
[01:04:34] You feel like a pussy
[01:04:37] It's the most frustrating
[01:04:40] At the time it was one of the most frustrating things
[01:04:43] Because you want to be that guy for your for your for your woman
[01:04:47] Of course, I'm still that awesome alpha male that you fell in love with
[01:04:52] You couldn't whatever doesn't you know doesn't blink anything
[01:04:56] Except that water bottle inside the road right there
[01:04:59] What's that pile of garbage doing right there?
[01:05:01] What do you mean I should just drive? Oh right. Yeah, this is our street. Sorry. It's not a road and cool
[01:05:08] And and
[01:05:10] Yeah, I just
[01:05:14] I
[01:05:16] Like I said I wish I'd had that advice that
[01:05:19] You know be prepared for the fact because when I went to Kosovo
[01:05:24] Because I've had that people ask me will you you didn't have that reaction when you came out from Kosovo
[01:05:29] Why lived in the barracks?
[01:05:31] All my shit was in storage. I didn't have a girlfriend. I had a girl that I was dating. She picked me up
[01:05:35] When we got home, but like it's not like we were gonna get engaged or anything
[01:05:40] And you know, I didn't have any real belongings
[01:05:43] You know, I you know, I still lived at the unit. This was a house I had bought
[01:05:47] You know, my girlfriend had moved in, you know, she was talking about kids and marriage
[01:05:51] And we had dog. We had a dog
[01:05:54] And I came home and I was like what happened to my house and what is going on and like
[01:05:59] You know, what I told my dad when I went to Kosovo
[01:06:05] You know, in the book I taught what my dad one of the three times I've seen him cry in my life
[01:06:11] Was when I deployed to Kosovo for the first time and and I said hey man, don't worry about it six months
[01:06:16] Hey, what's six months, right? It's like six haircuts, six six six mortgage payments
[01:06:21] It's nothing, don't worry about it
[01:06:23] And I come home and I couldn't even think that way myself
[01:06:25] And you know, and I know I don't know if you felt like that after your first deployment
[01:06:31] But this one was different because I guess I had a life to come home to beside besides the unit
[01:06:37] I've always been very compartmentalized in the way I think
[01:06:41] Right, sometimes probably to a detriment to
[01:06:45] My family a little bit
[01:06:48] But I've always been very far from the work come home. I'm not I'm not working anymore
[01:06:52] So just stop thinking about that stuff
[01:06:56] And it's it's usually pretty positive but the problem is that when you get to you realize your compartmentalizing your family out of the picture kind of which I would have a tendency to do so what
[01:07:08] And I mean that's probably part of one of the things that but even even when you're a real young guy
[01:07:16] Like how long have you been married?
[01:07:18] I've been married for a long time
[01:07:19] Okay, and and I've always been like that. Okay. I honestly it's wrong. I think but the seal teams was always the biggest priority in my life
[01:07:30] And you know people will be like oh family first
[01:07:33] That was not true for me and luckily my wife understood that and she didn't hold it against me right
[01:07:41] She knew that someday she knew the seal team was wasn't gonna last forever
[01:07:44] And all you guys in the military I'll tell you what the military does not last forever
[01:07:50] Well the big green machine rolls on yeah, with or without you exactly and and the people that are there when you when you fall off
[01:07:58] Those are ones you gotta worry about when you're still on yep
[01:08:01] And so that's why I think I just was able to compartmentalize what you know away right and I would basically be almost a skits of front of this is a guy that works
[01:08:14] And this is a guy that's at home. He's dad or whatever and boom. I just have that really good split and I think it was beneficial to me
[01:08:23] It probably was probably is yeah, yeah, I guess I assumed I was that guy too because that's I you know I approached most things that way but
[01:08:38] Maybe just having that little home of my own for that one tour and then also you know losing a couple buddies for the first time
[01:08:46] Maybe I don't know I don't know what the thing like it's not like it didn't wreck anything like my career was fine like it was just well, I mean I lost a fiance out of it
[01:08:56] But yeah, yeah, and that's what happens next so she announced this is back to the book here she announced that she was leaving
[01:09:05] I was shocked because I didn't want to break things off. I just wanted to postpone the wedding
[01:09:10] But for her this was all too much
[01:09:12] Our relationship was over while I was certain this was the right time to get well, I wasn't certain this was the right time to get married
[01:09:20] I was certain about one thing
[01:09:23] I wanted to go back to Afghanistan in this time as a sniper
[01:09:29] And that's something that
[01:09:33] Yeah, I mean that's something that's hard to reconcile the feeling of
[01:09:39] Just want to go back. I mean that's I want to go back right now. Yeah, of course
[01:09:46] People, hey, yeah, what's it like you you asked me what's it like to be in politics? I go I'd rather be killing ISIS
[01:09:52] Yeah, frankly, and I you know, I'm not ashamed to say it. I was good at it and and I love
[01:09:58] The people that are out there doing it for us, you know, even though I'm not one of them anymore. You know what and
[01:10:04] What we kind of skipped over but 9 11 happened during my sniper course and sniper course is we don't just have a rotation
[01:10:13] I'm going on in Canada. We're very small military if you're on a sniper course
[01:10:17] Holy shit like you've got you got there. They run like a one or two years something maybe
[01:10:23] There's not even every year. No, well, they're now I think it is but back then
[01:10:27] Mine was the first one in three years that had happened 25 of us tried out three of us passed
[01:10:34] So it's not like you get on it and it's okay. You just got a pass
[01:10:38] So but 9 11 happened on like day five or six or something and you know
[01:10:44] As the towers fell we watched it fall on TV like they interrupted a class
[01:10:50] We thought it was like a sesna right the guy comes so much as a little plane of the world trades in it
[01:10:54] We're in the middle of a you don't interrupt a class
[01:10:56] You know right you don't interrupt a training session
[01:11:00] We're like okay man, thanks and the duty sergeant runs off
[01:11:04] But we think a drunk guy in a sesna and then he comes back and then so we go down to watch at the duty station and
[01:11:11] As it as the towers are falling. I'm hearing like the starting bell
[01:11:14] Right, I'm hearing like the horn at the start of the super bull and I'm like oh, it's on because I was considering retiring because of the lack of action
[01:11:26] So you did get your
[01:11:30] I hate to call it a dream but you got your dream like I'm back to Afghanistan. Oh, yeah, and this time you're going as a sniper
[01:11:37] Which is awesome you're back in Afghanistan and there's some heavy fighting going on now. There's some legit fighting and and
[01:11:47] The Canadians are actually leading operations which is the first time in quite some time. I think since Korea
[01:11:54] Yeah, well this this what what we what we were we this was the first time we'd let operations
[01:12:00] That were non peacekeeping
[01:12:03] Ever
[01:12:04] Since Korea yeah, you're right and this but we what we walked into was the first offensive and NATO's history
[01:12:12] Ever
[01:12:13] Think about it right NATO has never been on the offensive except for enough Afghanistan kind of weird but North Atlantic treaty organization
[01:12:21] But anyway, this one was called operation Medusa
[01:12:25] This Canadian led up NATO operation was going to be different from anything we'd done so far
[01:12:30] It was a bit of a wake-up call so was the fact that my buddy Jeff Walsh had been killed in friendly fire in an accident that happened in August
[01:12:39] Clearly we were entering a high risk situation
[01:12:43] That didn't determine any way in any way if anything it made my resolve stronger. I trained for this and I was ready
[01:12:53] It's a good feeling
[01:12:55] What what was the friendly fire was an aircraft or was it shooting?
[01:13:00] No this one was unfortunately it was his buddy in the vehicle. They were sitting next to each other and
[01:13:09] I guess
[01:13:11] He got in with his rifle
[01:13:13] Not paying attention to the muzzle
[01:13:16] And it went off and shot Jeff through the face and killed him
[01:13:20] That no one really knows exactly what happened but that's basically pretty much what everyone figures happened
[01:13:31] Muzzle discipline
[01:13:33] Never point your weapon it's something you do not want to destroy
[01:13:37] Yeah, keep your finger off the trigger, keep your weapon on safe
[01:13:44] All right, now as you guys are getting ready to go into this operation Medusa
[01:13:48] One of the orders that comes out is if anybody gets hurt during this mission
[01:13:54] We're going to stop right away and take care of it
[01:13:57] And you're going to make sure the casualties are dealt with and then reassess the situation before moving forward
[01:14:04] That was during the
[01:14:06] The company commanders orders right and you were kind of thinking
[01:14:09] Wait a second. Yeah, for those of you that don't know
[01:14:12] Which is I'm sure people that aren't the military when you're going on in attack you're your ideas to maintain the momentum of the attack and you take casualties along the way while you're attacking
[01:14:25] You keep attacking
[01:14:26] Yeah, you don't stop you know you're going to take casualties. You're going to keep people going to get hit things are going to slow you down
[01:14:31] You don't slow down. You try and keep pushing forward. Keep pushing forward
[01:14:35] I've said it on this podcast before aggression will mitigate risk
[01:14:42] So you get aggressive you move through the target you get the target secure and then you can deal with the guys that are down
[01:14:47] Yeah, not that you're going to
[01:14:49] Ignore them and you can't drop off a medic here and there to handle a situation
[01:14:53] But you're not going to stop. I mean literally you know stop
[01:14:56] No, you can't stop the whole battle group you can't stop
[01:15:00] But you know though I don't know if the order was delivered the way it was intended
[01:15:06] But that's how it that's basically what that's to paraphrase what was said
[01:15:10] Yeah, and that's why you know a couple of us were just kind of like yeah, and what's really what's really
[01:15:15] To your point of you're not sure if that's what was meant what's really important is that the main thing you want to get across to your troops
[01:15:23] When you're going on to assault is you want the main point to be get aggressive
[01:15:27] That's the main point that you want to get across to them not hey the main point that you're going to take away from this is if we take casually stop
[01:15:33] You know
[01:15:35] We're going to get aggressive. We're going to finish through the target. We're going to secure the target and nothing is going to stop us from doing that
[01:15:42] I don't care what happens. That's what you want to have going into it. Right. That's that's my that was always my impression
[01:15:48] I've never been a company commander though, but you've received plenty of orders. Yes, sir. All right
[01:15:57] Now
[01:15:59] We're starting it on the assault the assault is going down
[01:16:03] And here we go up ahead the first vehicles were closing in on the white schoolhouse
[01:16:08] The Zettelmired cleared away for the lead between comprising of four lat LAVs and a G wagon to take position next to the schoolhouse
[01:16:16] It was at this point that the Taliban decided to make their presence known by firing an anti tank
[01:16:22] Recorulus rifle round at the softest vehicle of this lead platoon the G wagon
[01:16:26] The round went right through the front windshield causing immediate casualties
[01:16:31] Next our whole soul opened up all at once every can and every coaxial machine gun was firing
[01:16:36] Taliban were coming out of the weeds all around us out of tunnels windows mouse holes
[01:16:40] They had their head and they had to held their powder to the last second
[01:16:45] And then it was game on they had the defenders advantage and they used it
[01:16:50] The call went out on the radio that one of our vehicles was hit and we had casualties
[01:16:55] As this was happening one of the LAVs that was stuck next to the schoolhouse went nose first into a ditch and was stuck
[01:17:04] I was trying to listen on the radio when suddenly the troops who were sticking out of the top hatches of our LAV yelled
[01:17:10] Holy fuck they're right there. They let go of burst from their C7s followed by grenade from a rifle mounted grenade launcher
[01:17:16] At that moment our artillery began raining down and air support started dropping bombs on the Taliban
[01:17:22] I felt helpless during all this chaos because the plan for us as snipers was to get involved only one subjective rugby had been achieved
[01:17:32] At that point we would get up on the schools roof and provide cover for the bound to the next objective
[01:17:37] But in this situation Barry cash those are your sniper teammates Barry cash and I were stuck inside the LAV right at the time
[01:17:46] When our shooting skills were needed up top needed most up top
[01:17:50] I was working the radio doing my best to keep everyone in the vehicle informed of what was happening up ahead
[01:17:56] Okay, we've got three wounded in action and one killed in action
[01:18:01] I said relaying the message that there were three wounded soldiers and one who was killed in the G-wagon that had been hit
[01:18:07] Every soldier had a zap number which would be used as an identifier in case you were wounded or killed in the field
[01:18:14] Standard operating procedure was that if someone died in combat you never revealed their name during the battle
[01:18:21] At this point we didn't know which soldier had been killed in that attack on the G-wagon
[01:18:26] And no one seemed to know the zap number either
[01:18:29] Finally the major got on the radio I need to know now who the fuck just got killed
[01:18:36] The radio crackled and a voice came on
[01:18:40] It was worn off Sir Rick Nolan sir Rick Nolan was the soldier I had had a brief argument with the day before
[01:18:49] I've always felt bad that our last conversation was a little strained
[01:18:53] Rick was a good man and a great soldier sitting in the front seat of that G-wagon
[01:18:59] He had no chance of surviving a direct rocket hit
[01:19:02] I looked at Barry and Cash we were all stunned in the silence
[01:19:07] No matter how much you prepare for that moment when a soldier you know becomes a casualty
[01:19:12] There's nothing that compares to the actual feeling
[01:19:15] On top of that it was jarring for all of us because we just didn't expect a soldier with his level of experience
[01:19:22] And status to be the first one taking out on the mission
[01:19:34] That section right there
[01:19:39] Reminding me we were I had guys out
[01:19:42] They were clearing the sector of Ramadi
[01:19:47] And big gunfight broke out and I don't know three or four hundred meters away
[01:19:53] Maybe five hundred meters away whatever it was
[01:19:57] I can just hear gunfire mayhem
[01:20:00] Radeos I got up to a rooftop and I'm
[01:20:06] You know hey what's up and I hear the the element commander got on the radio
[01:20:11] And he says hey we're in a cash lead evacuation we got one killed and one wounded
[01:20:16] And
[01:20:20] They were with I don't know probably twenty Iraqi soldiers and five or six seals
[01:20:28] But you don't know who it is right and some waiting
[01:20:31] And you don't want to say anything on the radio and I'm waiting and I and
[01:20:36] Finally I just said is it I rack your American is like the longest
[01:20:44] Pause I've ever heard of my life and he comes back and he says both Iraqi and he was like they know
[01:20:51] Faced the Iraqi but to the Iraqi soldiers but you know I was
[01:20:56] Relieved very relieved at that point and you talk about that too and hear how
[01:21:01] Somebody gets hurt or somebody gets wounded or somebody gets killed and you you know it's one of your guys
[01:21:07] And you feel guilty when you hear the name and it's not whatever one of your what are your better friends or whatever
[01:21:14] And that's one of those strange and freaking horrible things about war yeah
[01:21:23] You guys were I
[01:21:26] Mean this was like a shit sandwich out of the gate yeah
[01:21:30] Yeah, it you got to remember this is the first time Canada's been on the offensive since Korea and
[01:21:39] Doesn't matter how much you train
[01:21:42] The first few minutes are going to be sloppy until you get your shit together
[01:21:48] Well, I shouldn't have even said shit same which I should have said this is combat that's it because I mean it's going
[01:21:56] It's going to you going to there you're setting up your positions you're moving into position
[01:22:01] The enemy hadn't really revealed himself as you said in the book they held their powder
[01:22:06] Yeah, well, we we wondered if they were there at all because the day before
[01:22:11] We watched as they all drove out of the area fighting aged guys
[01:22:16] Just drove away in trucks trucks full they left some guys behind they actually
[01:22:22] You know the average Taliban guy, you know, you don't even have the duck if you shoot now. You're really I mean you should duck but the point is he's probably not going to hit you, but they whoever they left behind
[01:22:34] Were guys that knew what the wood knew what they were out knew what they were doing and I give them credit for that like
[01:22:40] You know they're not soldiers as we consider it, but they're tough guys
[01:22:45] You know and you guys you sniper team you guys didn't even have your body armor. Yeah, well, because it's because it's part of the you know
[01:22:56] What's the three rules of special ops, right? Always look cool always know who you are and if you don't know where you are make sure you look cool
[01:23:03] Right, so wearing ball caps and not having body armor makes you look cool, but also in our minds and we trained
[01:23:11] We have enough shit to dump you know why add body armor to it and and helmets, you know, we're going to be in a position. We shouldn't if we're being engaged we fucked up
[01:23:22] But I tell you we I don't know if you're going to read it, but there's a there's a few moment few minutes later, I'm like I really wish I had some body armor
[01:23:30] Oh no, I'm not going to read it, but I asked why I brought it up and I was actually I was actually not going to bring it up
[01:23:35] But then I circled to bring it up, you know why because there's somebody out there that's in the field right now that's going on some operation and they're thinking you know what I probably better off if I didn't bring my body armor and I'm going to tell you
[01:23:47] Bring your body armor, yeah, bring your body armor. I did want the operation that for a bunch of reasons
[01:23:56] I decided that I didn't need body armor, right, and of course ended up in a bad scenario and the only thing I'm thinking as I have as I'm have a gun pointed out my chest is
[01:24:11] You're an idiot. Yeah, and you don't have body armor on. We had we had the strike plate. Oh, front of our chest rig, but we found out after
[01:24:22] If we'd ever been struck in that plate, the spall from the plate would have killed us because it's designed to be inside the body armor, the the Kevler
[01:24:32] Because it had a Kevler wrap around it around the around the ceramic turns out it's not
[01:24:38] That wrap is there more just for aesthetics or something. I don't know but anyway, so it's like oh, no, no, it has to be inside the issued vest in order for it to work a pocket in your chest rig
[01:24:50] Yeah, no, that's not the other crazy thing again for guys that are overseas right now even if you think you're going to be far enough away from a
[01:24:57] Firefight if you could hit with an ID you want your body armor on 100% 100% I always wear my body armor in a vehicle. Yeah after this but
[01:25:08] But even the night I was hit I didn't have body armor on yeah, I don't always just a weird thing for me, but
[01:25:16] You know, they're the Romans and Irna the Greeks the Romans they called it, you know, the first time you see combat, you know, see in the elephant
[01:25:25] So you know, we, so let's go back to Rick so Rick is a war officer, so do you guys maybe a pedi officer chief pedi officer
[01:25:36] Roughly he's like a company he was a company quartermaster, so he's not sergeant major, but he's like the next NCO down
[01:25:44] I'm going to guess he had about 18 20 years he would he had been a recon guy most of it, you know, I trained under him mentor to under him you know, it's like
[01:25:56] When you when you imagine casualties you're imagining private Smith and Corporal Jones and you know whoever
[01:26:03] But our first guy killed is a guy who trained his whole life for war, and he's the first guy gone
[01:26:10] You know, like there's no there's no status there's no seniority in combat. No it doesn't care if you've trained every day for 100 years or if you've trained one day forever
[01:26:22] That bullet is if it's got your name on it's got your name on it
[01:26:26] I was going to say bullets don't even have names on them. Yeah, they're going to hit yeah, and that's why combat is so that's one of the things about combat that makes it so
[01:26:37] So damn awful is like you said you can train as hard as you can train you can make no mistakes
[01:26:44] You can be the perfect warrior on the perfect mission and you can still get blown up. You can still get shot. There's nothing you can do about it
[01:26:53] Yeah, I mean I hate to say there's nothing you can do about it. You're getting in you're going to be trading lead with other people and
[01:27:01] That bullet can hit you and even if there are if they are dirt farmers with with 30 year old AKs if it's functioning. It's a threat and you know
[01:27:11] I've had chats with guys about why was why was that vehicle even on the objective?
[01:27:17] When you had these perfectly good armored vehicles now these are up armored jeeps the these these the gee it's there. They're the German one right
[01:27:26] We'd only train to this point right and and in training that vehicle went to the objective
[01:27:35] So why wouldn't it? You know until until someone puts a recoil is rifle round through it and you go
[01:27:42] Might be best to leave that one behind and maybe just get another lab for the for the company quartermaster which after that they did
[01:27:50] But you know some lessons have to be learned
[01:27:52] But so the mayhem continues
[01:27:57] You end up helping
[01:28:00] Collect the casualties yeah
[01:28:02] And now you're sitting there you're at them when we would call a casually collection point. Do you use that term?
[01:28:08] Yeah, I don't know if you use that in here. CCP. So you're at the CCP the casualty collection point and here you go
[01:28:16] One of the most important things in the field of battle is taking care of your dead in fact the creative of the royals is never leave a royal behind
[01:28:24] On the field you want to get the bodies out of sight as quickly as possible. It's demoralizing for a soldier to witness a dead comrade during battle, especially when it's someone of Rick stature
[01:28:34] I went in the back of an LAV grabbed a couple of body bags and got to work with some of our other guys
[01:28:42] We picked up Rick and zipped him into a bag
[01:28:46] One of the other fallen officers was Frank Mellish
[01:28:50] For a second I had a bit of hope because he was on a stretcher which meant he might have only been wounded
[01:28:56] But once I saw soldiers approach and check his dog tags
[01:29:00] I knew he was gone a casualty of the round that took out the zettle mire
[01:29:05] The sad twist was that Frank Mellish and Rick know it had been friends for their whole careers and now they were lying on the ground together
[01:29:13] Next I help put private William Cushley into a bag
[01:29:19] I'll never forget looking directly into his still open eyes and saying sorry bro
[01:29:25] As I zipped up his body bag
[01:29:37] Now that's obviously enough to crush
[01:29:41] Some people mentally and emotionally at that point
[01:29:47] But soldiers don't have time
[01:29:57] They have to do their jobs
[01:30:01] What?
[01:30:03] As you went through that emotion
[01:30:07] And then you turn around and you go, okay?
[01:30:11] What's next?
[01:30:12] Yep
[01:30:13] How's that work?
[01:30:15] That's what you do
[01:30:19] If I had spent more than that when second say in sorry bro, what am I missing?
[01:30:25] I was doing, I couldn't get my snipers into a position to be useful
[01:30:31] Being snipers so we were being useful in other ways
[01:30:35] And once that problem was dealt with because you could see the guy, like you know we were trying to reorganize ourselves here
[01:30:43] And the re-org phase
[01:30:45] The guys are going the long way around of the vehicle because they were lined up next to the vehicle
[01:30:50] And so me and a couple of guys are like, okay, we got to fix this
[01:30:53] We fixed it and people you felt, you felt people relaxed
[01:30:59] And then my main concern was that's still our objective
[01:31:05] And we got to get to it so what's next?
[01:31:08] And that's when I went looking for like I'm not even sure who's in charge at this point
[01:31:12] Because we had taken so much of our leadership
[01:31:14] It'd been hurt the company's sergeant major to the warrants
[01:31:18] You know, when that Zettelmeyer got hit, you know, it wounded a bunch of guys
[01:31:25] And you know we had Afghans with us, we had some Americans with us
[01:31:30] What do you call the National Guard?
[01:31:33] I think the National Guard mentors for the Afghans are with us
[01:31:37] And my biggest disappointment from that day
[01:31:43] And I know I'm going to catch some, I might catch some shit from some guys that were there
[01:31:48] We didn't take our objective
[01:31:51] To this day
[01:31:53] You know what, 2016, you know, it's just 10 years later
[01:31:59] Almost, it's a 10 or a little bit 10 years
[01:32:02] And to this day, I'm like, we didn't take our objective
[01:32:06] Yeah
[01:32:10] In part of that, you know, and for one thing, when I, when I, you know, was reading that
[01:32:17] And I mean obviously it's just emotional moment
[01:32:22] And I knew that you just had to detach from the emotion
[01:32:24] And I used that term all the time
[01:32:26] Yeah, you got to just detach from it
[01:32:28] And you got to be conscious of that
[01:32:30] So like, folks that are listening
[01:32:32] That are thinking how do you do that? That's how you do it
[01:32:34] But you cannot, you've got, when you feel the emotion starting to override
[01:32:38] Your logic and your ability to do your duty
[01:32:42] That's what you have to do, you have to go, okay
[01:32:44] I got to detach from those emotions and I got to do my job now
[01:32:48] Yeah
[01:32:49] In that moment, like, I actually don't remember
[01:32:52] Like I didn't really have any feelings
[01:32:55] You know, I get more feeling now out of it
[01:32:58] Listening to you read it
[01:32:59] Yeah
[01:33:00] Because that
[01:33:01] Starting with, especially when TJ got, got hurt, you know
[01:33:06] That's our workspace
[01:33:08] Yeah
[01:33:09] Like, you know, here we're in an office
[01:33:11] Yeah, you can, people typing, doors opening, closing
[01:33:15] That's the normal sound and vibe of this workspace
[01:33:19] We had burning vehicles, we had dead soldiers, we had wounded soldiers, we had about 15 wounded by this point
[01:33:27] We had air support raining in, we had artillery support raining in, we had enemy mortars coming down
[01:33:34] And you know, that's the norm
[01:33:37] They don't like, when you sign up to be a Navy seal, they don't hide the fact that you might get gunfights
[01:33:43] It's like the first thing you read, it's in big, bold black letters
[01:33:46] You're gonna, you could get killed
[01:33:48] It's not in the small print at the bottom of the contract, you know, claws, B of Section 4
[01:33:54] It's right there
[01:33:55] That's what you signed up for
[01:33:57] So
[01:33:59] It's not abnormal for these things to be happening
[01:34:03] What you have to do is accept that they happened and carry on with the job
[01:34:09] And in that moment, I remember, I said, sorry bro, because I was, I was, I was actually probably felt more like, hey man, sorry you're out of the game
[01:34:18] Because it's gonna get exciting from here
[01:34:21] You know, I, oh, a fallen soldier in combat to me is, especially a volunteer
[01:34:30] We weren't drafted, did anyone make you join the Navy?
[01:34:33] No
[01:34:34] I, I fought with my parents to get into the Army
[01:34:38] I, I would have, I would have, fist, I would have fought ten of my best friends to get that job as that sniper team leader
[01:34:46] And there is nowhere else I wanted to be and if soldier falling in combat doing the job he chose and a, and a play
[01:34:54] It's not of our choosing
[01:34:56] Don't ever feel sorry for me, because I went to Afghanistan, believe me, I wanted to be there
[01:35:01] And for, and to fall
[01:35:04] I get in a lot of shit by some people, but that's, it's one of the greatest things a soldier can do
[01:35:11] Is the fall for it with his friends doing the job that he chose or she chose
[01:35:18] And it's, I, I get in shit sometime because I think like this
[01:35:25] Well, it's, I think the reason that is is because it's so hard for people that
[01:35:30] Don't know what that brotherhood is like
[01:35:34] They don't know what it's like to want to do that
[01:35:37] They don't understand that that's
[01:35:42] That's the soldier in the child, that's the way you've wanted to be your whole life
[01:35:46] That's the way I want to be my whole life so to, for these things to happen is
[01:35:50] It's like feeling bad for an MMA fighter because they got punched in the face
[01:35:57] There you go for it
[01:35:59] You signed up for it and those guys, you know, they're there to fight
[01:36:02] And the military, you're there to fight and a byproduct of fighting in this situation
[01:36:08] Can be injury, it can be death
[01:36:11] And like you said, it's what we all signed up for
[01:36:15] And you know, going back to the situation here
[01:36:20] One of the things that you talked about the fact that you guys didn't secure your objective
[01:36:26] And one of the reasons that you didn't secure your objective the next day
[01:36:30] is because you had another friendly fire incident
[01:36:33] And this is awful and you know, the book that I wrote with
[01:36:37] Dave starts off with a friendly fire scenario happening
[01:36:42] And I wish I could explain to civilians
[01:36:45] It's really hard for people to understand how these things happened
[01:36:48] I mean we've already talked about it
[01:36:50] What two times in this book here's another one
[01:36:53] ATEN's come in
[01:36:55] You're basically like half awake trying to get trying to get a little bit of sleep
[01:37:00] Yeah
[01:37:01] And all of a sudden you know you hear the gun fire, you hear things happening
[01:37:04] All of a sudden you hear an ATEN burst go
[01:37:07] And cash, you're your teammate cash
[01:37:12] He's like, you're not going to believe this
[01:37:14] But I think he just strafed our own guys
[01:37:17] Strafed is when you fire machine gun can
[01:37:20] And fire fire from an aircraft
[01:37:23] And sure enough 30 soldiers more than 30 soldiers were injured
[01:37:30] Yeah
[01:37:31] And one was killed and by the way the one that was killed was private mark
[01:37:35] Graham who was a Olympic spreader for Canada 1992 and Barcelona
[01:37:40] Yeah
[01:37:45] I mean it's a nightmare
[01:37:47] It was a nightmare
[01:37:49] It was
[01:37:51] Such a I even got mad at cash at first
[01:37:54] Because I was like because I heard it and you know that breath
[01:37:58] It's actually a nice feeling
[01:38:01] And till that happens
[01:38:03] And that one sounded weird
[01:38:05] Because I got his half awake
[01:38:07] And they were doing strafing runs across
[01:38:10] Because we were on each side of the Argonne Dobrever
[01:38:13] So there's a bit of distance
[01:38:16] And that one was like that was real close
[01:38:19] That's kind of weird and I'm trying to just wake up
[01:38:22] And cash is yeah they hit the hit us
[01:38:25] I go what the what are you talking about
[01:38:27] Why would he and I look down from our sniper position
[01:38:30] To where the vehicles were and that's what exactly what it happened
[01:38:35] And on my mind I know what an A10 strike does
[01:38:38] I'm like oh my god he killed all my friends
[01:38:41] And then through the dust and so right away
[01:38:46] I'm like okay well if I'm the enemy I know what I would do
[01:38:48] You know sound the bugles boys were attacking
[01:38:52] They didn't do that
[01:38:55] My theory is they had already left after the gun fight the day before
[01:39:00] And so we reorientate all our focus to the front
[01:39:04] To keep an eye on the enemy and I can't help but look down
[01:39:07] We had a JTF sniper team directly to our left
[01:39:12] And they left their spotters in place
[01:39:16] And they rest on the rest of them ran down with their medical kids
[01:39:19] And when they were walking away
[01:39:23] Eventually the team you know four guys walk away with a body bag
[01:39:27] And I'm like oh okay that's it
[01:39:30] And then the you know the radio
[01:39:33] You know then that's like yeah we're 10 10 wounded
[01:39:36] Okay to 12 okay 17 is 21
[01:39:39] And then I think we ended up at about 34 35
[01:39:42] So the entire leadership of the company's wiped out
[01:39:46] And with injury
[01:39:48] And that's it that company is now combat and effect
[01:39:53] Yeah, which is
[01:39:54] I mean to hear that in the modern day
[01:39:57] You don't hear that very often combat and effect
[01:40:00] I mean that they can no longer perform their duties
[01:40:02] Yeah, they just don't hear that
[01:40:03] They just don't have enough bodies left
[01:40:05] Like they just didn't have enough soldiers that were still functioning
[01:40:07] And you know we went to Afghanistan in 2002
[01:40:14] With op was an anaconda I believe
[01:40:18] We sent a battalion of Canadian soldiers with and that's where the Canadian snipers set the new record
[01:40:29] Beatying Carlos half cocks that had stood since Vietnam
[01:40:33] But part of that mission was we lost four guys to an American F-16
[01:40:38] And then this happened and people give a lot of shit to the American Air Force or aircraft
[01:40:46] Mistakes happen
[01:40:49] We almost got lit up by our own guys at the beginning of the assault
[01:40:53] You know we didn't talk about it
[01:40:54] But I had to radio and remind them hey guys we're coming in from your flank
[01:40:58] You've looked through thermal I've looked through thermal
[01:41:01] The guys like us look anything like bad guys looking in through thermal
[01:41:05] I don't know how it happens
[01:41:07] Yeah, but guys get so amped up and they're so ready to kill something
[01:41:10] You just don't want it to be you
[01:41:12] Hey in Ramadi there was incidents where
[01:41:15] Humvees engaged other humvees
[01:41:18] Right?
[01:41:19] Because the enemy has no more
[01:41:21] Does he look like anything like a humvee
[01:41:23] No more distinct event in the world in a humvee
[01:41:25] Yeah, especially when you're in the military
[01:41:27] And but that's to your point that's the level of confusion and mayhem and chaos that happens
[01:41:34] And just the mentality of guys when they're scared and all of a sudden they see muzzle flash
[01:41:40] And okay, you know what boom oh I see something over there engaged
[01:41:44] Everything looks like a shovel and someone's hand looks like an AK
[01:41:48] So I don't lay any blame on the American pilot that did this
[01:41:54] He was doing the job he was there to do and someone told him to do something
[01:42:01] And they he cut off the wrong puff of smoke and that's what happened
[01:42:07] You know it was just a literally it was one of those
[01:42:11] It was one of those each little action led to it
[01:42:16] Right, you know from mark lighting the garbage fire
[01:42:19] To to him coming over the mountain and the and the sun is in his eyes
[01:42:26] Amen
[01:42:28] Shit happened a bunch of small mistakes that compound
[01:42:31] And I even mistakes just just such situational actions
[01:42:35] Yeah, that compound and two a tragic situation
[01:42:39] But I when you consider what a strafing run from an eight ten can do
[01:42:44] For us to only have one killed is amazing is incredible
[01:42:48] And and and only you know of those thirty something wounded
[01:42:53] I might not have the right number
[01:42:55] But if I understand correctly
[01:42:57] Maybe it doesn't have to retire due to their injuries
[01:43:01] Maybe
[01:43:03] Crazy
[01:43:04] Yeah
[01:43:05] So you guys continue doing sniper operations
[01:43:10] You guys continue
[01:43:13] Going on missions you support SF you support others
[01:43:16] Lots of really solid missions and now you're out on another operation
[01:43:22] You're patrolling through a village
[01:43:27] And again it's your team that you've been with the whole time
[01:43:32] You're following cash your boy cash
[01:43:36] And I'm going to go to the book here
[01:43:39] Once he was about ten meters ahead
[01:43:42] I turned and took my first step forward
[01:43:47] My right foot touched the ground
[01:43:50] And a massive orange fireball soared across my face
[01:43:55] I didn't hear a sound
[01:43:57] For a few seconds I felt waitless as if I was suspended in space
[01:44:03] The next thing I knew I was on the ground
[01:44:06] My ears nose and mouth tasted like mud
[01:44:11] And that's when the pain hit
[01:44:13] A pain so intense that it completely overwhelmed my body and my silence
[01:44:18] I started punching the ground and screaming
[01:44:20] Oh my god, oh my god it was the only time in my life
[01:44:24] I've ever uttered anything religious
[01:44:27] The blast was so powerful that he had knocked cash down
[01:44:31] And I saw him in the dirt up ahead of me
[01:44:34] For a few seconds I couldn't see barrier guard
[01:44:37] They had probably done what good snipers are supposed to do upon hearing the explosion
[01:44:41] Run for cover and prepare for an ambush
[01:44:44] A few seconds later once they realized what had happened
[01:44:48] They came running back towards me
[01:44:50] So there it is
[01:44:55] Did you know what did you know was an ID?
[01:44:59] Not why
[01:45:08] Could have been RPG, could have been someone there for those of you that don't know
[01:45:12] You don't know big booms are going off
[01:45:15] I didn't hear anything
[01:45:17] Right like I said like
[01:45:19] You're not going to hear the one that gets you from in my case it was real
[01:45:23] But my hearing was fine, there's no ringing
[01:45:26] There is no and I've read Colonel
[01:45:31] Help me out he wrote it on killing
[01:45:33] Oh yeah, yeah
[01:45:34] Yeah
[01:45:35] Anyway, so I know your name I just forget it right now
[01:45:39] And he talks about that in his other book on combat
[01:45:42] Yeah, the little audible
[01:45:43] The body will shut it off
[01:45:45] And it's split second
[01:45:46] But anyway
[01:45:48] I knew I'd done something
[01:45:50] Something bad it happened
[01:45:52] Once I you know my weapon was gone, you know my night vision is gone
[01:45:57] Right
[01:45:58] And the pain was so bad
[01:46:00] And you know it technically was an ID though
[01:46:04] Under the technical definition right because it was a
[01:46:07] An any personal landmine on top of a mortar bottle
[01:46:10] Technically
[01:46:12] We you and I know that's an ID
[01:46:14] But it's really two conventional munitions put together
[01:46:18] And it did exactly what it was supposed to do
[01:46:21] You know
[01:46:23] It just it's one of those
[01:46:28] It's one of those things of war where there's no rhyme or reason about who's going to get wet or when or where
[01:46:36] Because everyone else in your patrol just walked over it
[01:46:38] I was last guy
[01:46:39] I remember the first time I was ever shot
[01:46:44] I was in homebees and I'm going over a bridge and back dad
[01:46:48] And again this is going back to what you were talking about
[01:46:52] Like when you don't really know what's combat's like
[01:46:55] And I'm looking up ahead of me at the home via
[01:46:58] And I see these like someone's throwing cigarettes
[01:47:02] Out the window
[01:47:03] I go
[01:47:04] Who the hell is smoking
[01:47:06] We don't even have any smoke
[01:47:07] Like who's smoking right and how are they smoking at thousands of cigarettes
[01:47:10] I think they're smoking so many cigarettes right now
[01:47:12] And then why are they smoke
[01:47:13] Who why are these things sparking when they hit the the ground over there
[01:47:17] And why is there sparks
[01:47:18] Oh
[01:47:19] Okay
[01:47:20] Newsflas
[01:47:21] We're getting shot
[01:47:22] We're under effective fire
[01:47:23] Yeah
[01:47:24] And it's one of those things
[01:47:26] But my point is that you don't always know what's happening
[01:47:31] And you know in the urban environment
[01:47:33] You didn't know where shots were coming for you
[01:47:35] You're like rounds to be going overhead
[01:47:37] You could not tell where they were coming from
[01:47:39] You know if they're hitting something you can kind of get a general idea
[01:47:41] But you don't always know what's happening
[01:47:43] And all right so now going back to the book here
[01:47:48] My mates were all around me now
[01:47:51] The next hour was the longest of my life
[01:47:56] I was an absolute aggrst agony
[01:47:58] And trying hard to stay positive
[01:48:00] I was also trying hard not to think about the possibility
[01:48:04] Of bleeding out
[01:48:06] With each passing minute I was going weaker and weaker
[01:48:10] Every time I closed my eyes it was harder to open them again
[01:48:13] I knew that if I lost consciousness
[01:48:15] It was over
[01:48:17] Baring gold we're standing over me
[01:48:19] Do you think I'm going to make it
[01:48:22] I asked Gord
[01:48:24] Of course you're going to make it
[01:48:26] Never give up bro
[01:48:28] You know that
[01:48:30] You know that
[01:48:38] And you guys hadn't been to T-Triple C
[01:48:41] None of us
[01:48:42] So for those of you don't know there's something called T-Triple C
[01:48:45] Tactical combat casualty care
[01:48:47] It's a very short course
[01:48:49] That's like maybe a week
[01:48:51] It's two days maybe three days
[01:48:54] Because all the T-TU is how to keep somebody alive
[01:48:58] When this stuff happens
[01:49:00] That's what the goal is
[01:49:01] And it doesn't take a super amount of knowledge
[01:49:03] It takes some concepts
[01:49:06] Number one stop the bleeding
[01:49:08] But none of your guys had been to it
[01:49:11] But they still saved your life
[01:49:13] I mean between Barry Gord and I
[01:49:17] You know like we're all experienced operate
[01:49:20] And we still have enough first aid training
[01:49:23] You know the first thing they did is slap the Ternic it's on
[01:49:26] There you go
[01:49:28] At the arteries and my thighs
[01:49:30] And then they did their best from there
[01:49:33] And we're snipers
[01:49:35] We're not medics
[01:49:36] And we don't bring as awesome as medics are
[01:49:39] They're kind of in the way
[01:49:41] When you're on a sneaky sneaky mission
[01:49:43] That was what we
[01:49:44] That's how we classified our missions
[01:49:46] If they were sneaky sneaky
[01:49:47] Or it's really sneaky sneaky
[01:49:49] If we're really sneaky sneaky
[01:49:51] What's almost going to have bad day
[01:49:53] And this one was a middle sneaky and we were in a spot
[01:49:57] Where there is no Aussie
[01:49:59] You're not getting a vehicle in there
[01:50:01] You know and the closest medic was
[01:50:05] 12, 1500 meters away on foot
[01:50:09] At night through an Afghan village
[01:50:12] Hours
[01:50:14] Took him an hour
[01:50:15] The wrecky platoon
[01:50:17] Just thrown on this out there
[01:50:18] They just gave
[01:50:19] They just didn't even wait for it
[01:50:20] They were just coming
[01:50:21] I love those guys
[01:50:23] That's why that's why
[01:50:24] You I had to say
[01:50:25] I love those guys
[01:50:26] I everyone of them that listens
[01:50:28] I love those guys
[01:50:30] 100%
[01:50:31] I do anything for them
[01:50:33] So
[01:50:35] They get you
[01:50:38] They do get you out
[01:50:39] Yep
[01:50:40] They
[01:50:41] They put the phone in your hand
[01:50:43] Before you go into surgery
[01:50:45] Right
[01:50:46] So we're back in Canada
[01:50:47] I heard at the hospital and someone hands me a phone
[01:50:51] And
[01:50:53] I forget how it even went
[01:50:55] Like I was on a lot of drugs by this point
[01:50:57] One thing about getting wounded is
[01:50:59] Get to a lot of good drugs
[01:51:01] Here's what you told you dad
[01:51:03] They got me dad
[01:51:04] The towel band
[01:51:05] But I'm alive
[01:51:07] Going into surgery
[01:51:08] I'm going to get through this
[01:51:10] Don't worry
[01:51:11] I can't
[01:51:14] I kind of want to compliment you right now
[01:51:16] Because you always hear
[01:51:19] Of and of
[01:51:21] Do you speak compliment
[01:51:22] Like all my buddies
[01:51:24] Anybody that knows
[01:51:26] They got wounded
[01:51:27] They're like hey don't worry about it
[01:51:28] I would be okay
[01:51:29] Yeah
[01:51:30] And
[01:51:32] At the same time
[01:51:34] You called your dad like dad of wound
[01:51:37] You don't go to the surgery
[01:51:38] Don't worry about it
[01:51:39] Yeah
[01:51:40] You know
[01:51:41] That's probably actually
[01:51:43] What's funny is a mic monster
[01:51:45] Who is one of my guys got killed in
[01:51:48] Ramadi and
[01:51:49] I mean they were in
[01:51:51] Grueling
[01:51:54] Sustained
[01:51:56] Combat every single day
[01:51:58] Firefights
[01:51:59] I mean he went winchester
[01:52:01] On his
[01:52:02] On his heavy machine gun
[01:52:04] So many times that I don't even know
[01:52:07] Like one time
[01:52:08] I was went to visit him
[01:52:10] In their camp
[01:52:11] Because I was on the other side
[01:52:12] Winchester means completely at a ammo
[01:52:14] Oh yeah
[01:52:15] Sorry
[01:52:15] Winchester means you're out of ammo
[01:52:16] So I went to see
[01:52:17] I went to his camp
[01:52:18] Pretty early in deployment
[01:52:19] Maybe
[01:52:20] Three or four weeks in deployment
[01:52:22] And I went over to their camp
[01:52:23] To see how things were going
[01:52:25] And
[01:52:26] Someone's like
[01:52:27] Oh go check out the video
[01:52:28] That mic he made
[01:52:29] And I go
[01:52:30] Okay cool
[01:52:31] And mic he shows me this video
[01:52:32] And it's like a firefight happening
[01:52:35] Yeah
[01:52:36] And he's filming and he's putting
[01:52:38] Stick in the camera
[01:52:39] Up above the wall
[01:52:40] And then he turns it back on himself
[01:52:42] And he says
[01:52:43] The name of the part of town that they were fighting
[01:52:45] And was called the Malab district
[01:52:47] And mic he forwards the camera
[01:52:49] And himself
[01:52:50] And he goes
[01:52:51] It's the Moulin
[01:52:53] And so
[01:52:54] I'm looking at him laughing
[01:52:56] And then you know me being Mr.
[01:52:57] Professional
[01:52:58] And I go
[01:52:59] Hey man
[01:53:00] And he's a new guy
[01:53:01] And I'm you know
[01:53:02] Jockel you know
[01:53:03] And so I go
[01:53:04] Hey man
[01:53:05] I'm filming
[01:53:06] When there's a firefight going on
[01:53:07] I go you need to get your gun up
[01:53:08] I don't want to see this again
[01:53:09] And he's like
[01:53:10] Hey sorry sir
[01:53:12] But I was Winchester
[01:53:14] I go
[01:53:15] All right man
[01:53:16] Film some videos
[01:53:17] That's all you got left
[01:53:18] Be the Hister
[01:53:18] Be the document guy
[01:53:19] And just like in my opinion
[01:53:21] To go Winchester
[01:53:22] For a seal
[01:53:24] If he's anything like
[01:53:25] Like arm machine gunners
[01:53:26] That's pretty tough to do
[01:53:28] Oh yeah
[01:53:29] So
[01:53:29] It's not like mic he wasn't carrying a tone around
[01:53:32] Yeah
[01:53:32] Like I said
[01:53:33] My point of telling this story
[01:53:34] Was that
[01:53:36] You know this was happening on a
[01:53:38] You know fairly regular basis
[01:53:39] Definitely firefight
[01:53:40] He wasn't going Winchester all the time
[01:53:41] But he didn't know
[01:53:42] But I'm just saying like
[01:53:43] Well times
[01:53:44] And he was in
[01:53:46] You know
[01:53:47] Almost daily firefighters
[01:53:49] I remember that
[01:53:51] For to this is an actual number
[01:53:53] So
[01:53:53] The first 24 operations that that
[01:53:56] Element went on
[01:53:57] In a row
[01:53:58] They got to a firefight
[01:53:59] In the city
[01:54:00] Yeah
[01:54:01] And then they had one
[01:54:02] Where they didn't and then they went right back to it again
[01:54:03] So they were getting a lot of firefights
[01:54:05] And in a lot of danger
[01:54:07] And
[01:54:09] When we got home
[01:54:11] When I got home
[01:54:12] And I got to know his family
[01:54:13] A little bit
[01:54:14] His family was saying that when he'd call
[01:54:16] They'd be like
[01:54:17] What are you doing over there
[01:54:18] And he'd say
[01:54:19] Oh we're just training
[01:54:20] Some Iraqi soldiers
[01:54:21] Yeah
[01:54:21] We're just on base
[01:54:23] Just you know
[01:54:24] Don't worry about anything
[01:54:25] It's just fine
[01:54:26] Typical combat soldiers
[01:54:28] Fitting stories
[01:54:29] To the family
[01:54:30] Typical badass
[01:54:32] Yeah
[01:54:33] So that reminds me of you
[01:54:34] Don't worry about it
[01:54:36] You just got blown up
[01:54:37] Yeah
[01:54:38] Yeah
[01:54:39] Yeah
[01:54:39] Yeah
[01:54:40] Then
[01:54:41] Here we go
[01:54:43] I woke up with a doctor
[01:54:44] Looming over me
[01:54:46] Took a few moments
[01:54:47] For the anesthetics to wear off
[01:54:49] And for me to remember
[01:54:50] Where I was and what was going on
[01:54:53] Then it came back to me
[01:54:55] In a rush
[01:54:56] The mission
[01:54:57] The landmine, the pain, the surgery
[01:54:59] The surgeon standing
[01:55:01] By my bed
[01:55:02] Put it to me bluntly
[01:55:03] I had to cut off both your feet
[01:55:11] Boom
[01:55:12] I believe earlier
[01:55:15] We were talking about
[01:55:17] Irreversible situations
[01:55:19] Yep
[01:55:20] And here you were
[01:55:25] Was that real to you at that time?
[01:55:27] Yeah
[01:55:29] Or would you basically
[01:55:31] Hey
[01:55:32] I'm happy I'm alive
[01:55:34] Like I got a seal buddy
[01:55:36] That got blown up
[01:55:39] Yeah
[01:55:40] And
[01:55:42] And actually didn't get blown up
[01:55:43] You got shot
[01:55:44] And
[01:55:45] Anyways
[01:55:46] One of my buddies was talking to him
[01:55:48] And he's like a bro
[01:55:50] And
[01:55:51] I'm really sorry about
[01:55:53] You know
[01:55:53] Because he lost his leg
[01:55:54] He was wrong
[01:55:55] He was sorry about your leg
[01:55:57] You know
[01:55:58] And he goes
[01:55:59] Fuck my leg
[01:56:00] I'm happy to be alive
[01:56:02] And
[01:56:03] I got to be honest
[01:56:04] I didn't think that
[01:56:05] Yeah
[01:56:06] Um
[01:56:07] Soul drink is done on your feet
[01:56:10] And I immediately went
[01:56:12] Into defensive
[01:56:14] Mode
[01:56:15] I
[01:56:16] Half my brain said
[01:56:18] You tell that
[01:56:19] Fucking guy to go back
[01:56:21] And get that
[01:56:22] One of the feet
[01:56:24] And put it back
[01:56:26] And the other half is saying
[01:56:28] He's a pro
[01:56:30] He knows what he's doing
[01:56:31] If he took
[01:56:32] Because we knew one was gone
[01:56:34] On the scene
[01:56:35] That was the one that detonated
[01:56:36] The device
[01:56:37] The landmine did exactly what it was supposed to do
[01:56:39] It blew my foot off
[01:56:41] The mortar bomb shredded
[01:56:43] My other foot
[01:56:44] And on the scene
[01:56:46] I remember as I was
[01:56:48] Getting put onto the structure
[01:56:49] And getting put onto the ambulance
[01:56:51] That was finally able to get to us
[01:56:53] Because they literally
[01:56:55] Plowed a road to me with a combat bulldozer
[01:56:58] And had the ambulance behind it
[01:57:00] Um
[01:57:01] The medic
[01:57:02] From Recky Platoon said
[01:57:03] Hey man, your left foot
[01:57:05] We got it back into place
[01:57:07] Looks like it might be okay
[01:57:08] So
[01:57:09] But your right foot's gone
[01:57:10] I'm like, okay
[01:57:11] Whatever
[01:57:12] Again at this point I'm like
[01:57:13] So out of it
[01:57:14] So when I woke up
[01:57:15] And he says
[01:57:16] Yeah
[01:57:16] You know I had to take both feet
[01:57:18] Huh?
[01:57:19] Hmm
[01:57:21] And in my mind
[01:57:24] I'm thinking like, well
[01:57:25] How am I going to
[01:57:26] How am I going to do this job?
[01:57:28] Okay
[01:57:31] And then so then I go
[01:57:32] And depending on who's
[01:57:35] Manual you're reading
[01:57:37] Or which doctor wrote it
[01:57:38] There's certain number of steps
[01:57:40] To grieving
[01:57:41] And they say losing a part
[01:57:43] A body part is like
[01:57:44] Losing a family member or something
[01:57:46] So now I'm dealing with two deaths
[01:57:48] And the family
[01:57:49] And the first step is always denial
[01:57:52] And you know
[01:57:53] And I'm like, ah well
[01:57:54] It's 2007
[01:57:56] You know how awesome
[01:57:57] You know guys are going to be jealous
[01:57:58] I had my legs blown off
[01:57:59] I'm going to be like
[01:58:00] Rob I'm going to be like
[01:58:01] Astroboy
[01:58:02] Be flying around
[01:58:03] And shit
[01:58:04] I'll have like Robo Coplegs or something
[01:58:06] It's cool
[01:58:07] It's 2007
[01:58:08] Right? Everything's digital
[01:58:09] Um
[01:58:10] And I kind of
[01:58:12] Whether it was the drugs
[01:58:14] And or the endorphins
[01:58:16] From going through all that
[01:58:18] First
[01:58:20] Until I was out of
[01:58:21] Candahar that was my attitude
[01:58:24] You know right up to the boys all came in
[01:58:27] To see me off because we went from
[01:58:29] So I think I spent another day in Candahar
[01:58:32] They flew me to Bagrum
[01:58:34] And then I flew to Kuwait
[01:58:36] And then from Kuwait
[01:58:37] On to
[01:58:39] Germany
[01:58:40] Yeah but
[01:58:41] Lange to Longstool
[01:58:43] And so every stop that we picked up
[01:58:45] Moved American
[01:58:47] Serviceman
[01:58:48] And I think there was one other Canadian
[01:58:50] But
[01:58:51] So
[01:58:52] I just
[01:58:54] You know that's how I felt
[01:58:55] Right?
[01:58:56] And then once I was in Germany
[01:58:58] Um
[01:59:00] I was just trying to deal with every day by day
[01:59:07] You know
[01:59:08] I just was
[01:59:10] You know they put me in a room with another guy
[01:59:13] Who had been hit in an IED strike on a
[01:59:15] So a lab you were saying L.A.
[01:59:17] V. earlier so those are the
[01:59:19] Marine Corps has an act of some L.A. V.
[01:59:21] So that's why I was calling it that.
[01:59:22] Yeah so it's lighter armored vehicle
[01:59:24] And you guys in the army here they're called
[01:59:27] Strikers
[01:59:28] Except
[01:59:29] R is have turrets and I think yours has like
[01:59:31] Remote 50 cows or something
[01:59:33] They're all made in London Ontario
[01:59:35] Candahar by the way
[01:59:37] Um
[01:59:39] So
[01:59:41] Yeah I was just trying to deal with each day
[01:59:42] As it can't because now I'm
[01:59:43] I've never there's no training for this
[01:59:46] Right?
[01:59:47] And casual decimulation
[01:59:49] It stops once you're declared dead
[01:59:51] Or evacuated right?
[01:59:53] So now I'm in a stage where I'm like
[01:59:55] Okay I'm in a room with another Canadian dude
[01:59:57] Um
[01:59:59] And American army hospital
[02:00:01] And
[02:00:03] I don't know
[02:00:05] What's next?
[02:00:07] And every time I look down
[02:00:10] There's no toes to wiggle
[02:00:12] It was just so I'm like okay
[02:00:16] Well I'm just going to try and deal with this
[02:00:18] Just deal with it
[02:00:20] Just deal with it
[02:00:21] And I was in that mode for weeks
[02:00:25] Yeah
[02:00:27] I'm waiting
[02:00:29] I think I was waiting for a point
[02:00:31] Where someone was going to give me my diagnosis
[02:00:34] You know or my
[02:00:36] The conclusion
[02:00:39] Or like a prescription like okay here's what you're going to do now
[02:00:42] This is what not just with your legs but with your life
[02:00:45] Yeah this is what's going to happen
[02:00:46] You're going to do this you're going to follow these steps
[02:00:48] And at the end you'll be deploying back to Afghanistan
[02:00:52] Which is how it was going to my mind
[02:00:54] You know I don't know what you're going to read next
[02:00:57] But I was convinced
[02:00:59] I'm going to back out guys
[02:01:01] That's it like
[02:01:03] That's it
[02:01:06] Whenever you know the Navy or the Army wants to know something they send you on course
[02:01:10] So you know I was on snab or course and then you go on
[02:01:13] You go on driver course you go on
[02:01:15] Tactically carry course, teach triple C
[02:01:18] So as you're saying this that's actually the next portion
[02:01:21] Yeah
[02:01:22] That I was going to really good
[02:01:23] Okay
[02:01:23] Here you go exactly what you were just about to get into
[02:01:25] From that point on I made it my mission to learn to walk again
[02:01:28] I treated rehab like a military course
[02:01:30] When the military wants a soldier to learn something
[02:01:33] They send him on a course so as the approach I took with my rehab
[02:01:37] The mission mindset right there
[02:01:41] But at the same time
[02:01:43] And now we start going into the fact that it was obvious that the military system
[02:01:48] The military system just couldn't quite cope with my needs
[02:01:52] Sure I was offered help with all sorts of things from rehab to finding a home
[02:01:56] But no one truly understood the needs that are particular to a returning soldier
[02:02:01] And neither did I
[02:02:03] No
[02:02:07] So you didn't even know I mean how do you know that but that's what I'm saying how can you know there's no course for that
[02:02:13] There's no course there's no course there's no training
[02:02:19] You know and and our military medical system was
[02:02:23] Like like the
[02:02:25] We have lots of medics we have doctors for things like spring dangles and
[02:02:30] And you know you hurt your back on a rock march whatever whatever
[02:02:35] Lots of guys and girls to do that
[02:02:38] No you know our physiotherapists we got physiotherapists
[02:02:41] But they've been dealing with tennis elbow and spring dangles for 40 years
[02:02:45] And let's know
[02:02:46] Detachment to them
[02:02:48] It's not their fault
[02:02:49] It's
[02:02:50] They just that's the military that they were in
[02:02:53] And you compare that in the book you talk about when you went to the Center for a trip in San Antonio
[02:02:58] And now you had the American system which has been
[02:03:01] Unfortunately
[02:03:03] Dealing with
[02:03:05] Thousands and thousands and thousands
[02:03:08] Yeah of wounded soldiers
[02:03:10] For at that point I guess for you guys about four five years
[02:03:14] Okay four five years
[02:03:16] Well it was oh well oh seven yeah
[02:03:18] And I guess you guys started in 01 right after that
[02:03:21] Yep
[02:03:21] I don't whoever whenever the guys first went in after the towers dropped
[02:03:25] And so they had experience and they have giant amount of money
[02:03:30] I mean this is America and we do have a lot of money and they put a lot of money into it
[02:03:35] And and at the same time you had some Canadian folks that were like
[02:03:40] We don't need that kind of stuff
[02:03:41] You don't need those kind of things for rehab
[02:03:43] Right right well again I'm you know we have
[02:03:47] I'm trying to think of a correlation here
[02:03:51] But anyway we had these physiotherapists it's a trade in the military
[02:03:55] You're your military physiotherapist and your job is to rehab guys like me
[02:04:01] And I'm telling you you can't do it or you I'm telling you that you're failing
[02:04:06] And this is why so your reaction is going to be well I know I do my job
[02:04:11] And I don't so I don't at the time I was furious
[02:04:15] In retrospect
[02:04:17] They didn't know any better
[02:04:19] And that's why I started advocating so hard
[02:04:22] I got because I got home
[02:04:24] And I said this is what we got to do
[02:04:26] There's not that many guys like me coming home
[02:04:29] I mean yeah there's a lot more than there were last year because we're actually at war
[02:04:33] The center for the intrepid Walter Reed and I believe there's one here the naval medical
[02:04:39] Is that yeah
[02:04:40] Medical center bubble and there's Bethesda as well so
[02:04:43] Well I've heard of three
[02:04:45] San Antonio Walter Reed and the one here
[02:04:47] Those are the biggies yeah those are the ones where most of the traumatic injuries have been going from from from you guys
[02:04:54] So I said
[02:04:56] Let's start sending a pair of physiotherapists down with like for every physiotherapist we send down or for every two casualties
[02:05:03] We send down
[02:05:04] Let's send down one of our physiotherapists and in six months
[02:05:07] That physiotherapist will get more experience dealing with more injuries at
[02:05:13] With more patients and they could ever hope for on base pedoawa
[02:05:17] Where tuber gate is because we're talking the difference between a couple of dozen soldiers getting hurt playing rugby
[02:05:24] Or whatever or ruck marching versus
[02:05:27] Actually, yeah like a parade of guys getting smashed and IED strikes and air you know whatever was happening
[02:05:35] You know I was standing there in the guy who ran Antonio at the San Antonio at the time was
[02:05:41] He was in green beret
[02:05:44] Fidio therapist so I don't know if he was one and then the other or how it worked
[02:05:48] But so he's the lead physiotherapist and I remember this Marine walked into the room
[02:05:55] And he had both legs gone above the knee so he's on the taller leg prosthetics
[02:06:01] And he was blinded by it because he had been burned or whatever
[02:06:06] And this guy he's in full uniform he like screams the guy's name he's like goons and he tackles him
[02:06:13] And they start wrestling and I'm like yeah I want that because the hospital I was in
[02:06:20] And again no offense to the hospital I got great medical care
[02:06:24] For the standard
[02:06:28] To their capabilities
[02:06:31] And it it's not like it was bad but it wasn't what would have been best for me
[02:06:37] Me being a soldier so I'm like because I'm in a hospital where it's knee and hip replacements and amputations from diabetes
[02:06:44] So as a lot of older people I was probably one of the youngest people in the hospital at 30
[02:06:50] I was definitely in the best shape
[02:06:53] You know like I remember my first physiotherapy session
[02:06:56] She hands me a four pound bean bag weight with a strap on it
[02:07:01] She says oh I strap that around your leg and you know trying to like you know maybe maybe 15 or 20 leg raises
[02:07:09] If you think you can and I'm like
[02:07:12] Uh-huh
[02:07:13] Where's the squat rack here
[02:07:15] So I strap it I'm like four pounds is that enough and she's like oh yeah
[02:07:20] We don't want to start too hard nice sweet lady great person
[02:07:23] I love her the best she can she's what she knows
[02:07:25] She's doing what she knows
[02:07:27] I strap the thing to my stump and I start doing leg raises
[02:07:31] And she comes back like 10 minutes later
[02:07:33] She's like so how many did you get done? I'm like
[02:07:35] I don't know
[02:07:37] I'm wondering how much maybe 250 she's like oh oh
[02:07:41] And I'm like yeah, I'm in shape
[02:07:45] It was just meat and bone smash like I don't have any other injuries here
[02:07:48] But there it's San Antonio
[02:07:51] The lead therapist is tackling and wrestling with a blind legless marine and I'm like that's what I need
[02:07:58] I need to be around soldiers and people who know how I think and I can't help
[02:08:04] Again, and I'm not trying to criticize or or be overly
[02:08:09] Um
[02:08:11] Determental to the results of what came
[02:08:14] But imagine if I had had that treatment
[02:08:18] What you know people would say oh jodey you did fine you did great you're the poster boy
[02:08:23] Imagine if I had been in San Antonio
[02:08:25] You know where could have ate faster you think not well
[02:08:31] The level of expectation where I was was very very low
[02:08:35] So they didn't like so if I had been in San Antonio
[02:08:38] They'd been like well, no, no, you will be walking by March
[02:08:41] You will do this and you whereas
[02:08:43] Where I was because that's how they do it
[02:08:47] It's like well we'll see where you're at you know and this and that and there is no
[02:08:51] There's no one for me to mentor under or be you know like there's no one to be compared to or should be compared to
[02:08:58] Look at this guy over here he's grappling with another dude
[02:09:01] Even though he's blind is missing a leg
[02:09:03] Yeah, and are you ready to get it on?
[02:09:05] Yeah, you know another guy came in I think he was a marine too
[02:09:09] And he was wearing just like a t-shirt
[02:09:12] And the same guy is like hey
[02:09:14] Where's your issue PT kit?
[02:09:16] The Marine Corps doesn't play around
[02:09:18] And this was the green break guy right but he's but
[02:09:21] Because it's a mixed force right there's Air Force Navy Marine whoever's there
[02:09:26] There was a there is a Navy I believe she was Navy EOD had her arms blown off
[02:09:30] And she was recently in that range 15 movie I think it's the same girl
[02:09:35] I've only met one girl who had both her arms blown off by by an EOD by an IED
[02:09:40] But so I imagine it's her but anyway
[02:09:43] He expected you to be a soldier regardless of what happened to you
[02:09:48] You're gonna maintain that persona son and I was like yeah
[02:09:52] Because I could feel myself slipping at this other place because there's no expectations
[02:09:56] You know and you can only self-mote
[02:10:00] And having never had my legs blown off before
[02:10:05] I could only me self-mote of eight to a point for so long
[02:10:11] And be the guy, be my own drill surgeon and be my own
[02:10:16] And be my own inspector and there's a reason and I say this all the time
[02:10:21] There's a reason why the best athletes in the world have coaches
[02:10:26] Yeah
[02:10:27] That's the fact that somebody has got to show you the way
[02:10:31] Yeah
[02:10:32] And furthermore you can only push yourself so hard
[02:10:34] I know for a fact you can only push yourself to a hundred and seven percent
[02:10:39] A coach is gonna get you to a hundred and seventeen percent
[02:10:43] Yeah
[02:10:44] Push you a little bit harder to have no mercy
[02:10:46] And so that's what you need, that's what everybody's
[02:10:48] Yeah
[02:10:49] You know and so but again I try to give credit where credits do and give
[02:10:55] You know people were worried when I wrote the book
[02:10:58] There were people I heard that were worried
[02:11:00] And I'm not I don't want to shit on anyone
[02:11:02] And I don't want it to seem like I'm blaming anyone for anything
[02:11:05] I put myself there I'm the one that wanted to be in that spot to step on that landline
[02:11:10] My only expectation was that others would have put the preparation into their mission
[02:11:16] As I put into mine and I do feel that there were some at very high levels
[02:11:22] That maybe didn't take things as seriously as they should have
[02:11:26] Or realized the consequences of what was coming
[02:11:30] And take best practices from places like Walter Reed San Antonio
[02:11:35] Because when I said San me to San Antonio and send a Canadian physiotherapist with me
[02:11:40] And she's gonna learn in the three or six months
[02:11:43] I'm there more than she will in twenty years at any Canadian base
[02:11:47] It was oh well we appreciate that medic
[02:11:51] But you know we're working on a Canadian solution
[02:11:54] And I was like well that's gonna be awesome
[02:11:57] Once you figure out whatever the fuck that is what about me
[02:12:00] I'm talking about right this second we have a facility willing to take us
[02:12:05] So did they send PT's down there?
[02:12:08] No
[02:12:09] Because here's here's the back room stuff
[02:12:13] The politics
[02:12:14] Joe what would the civilians think if we were sending our soldiers to a different country's medical centers
[02:12:20] When we got hospitals right here
[02:12:23] Now again what we were getting at the hospital was not bad care
[02:12:30] You know what I'm saying?
[02:12:33] Do you understand the distinction trying to make it?
[02:12:35] Okay, okay
[02:12:36] It was it was the best care to the capability and the knowledge and understanding that they had
[02:12:43] Not only of their job but of the people that they were working with
[02:12:47] Yeah, in other words you got if you got a 72 year old diabetic that has an amplitude
[02:12:52] The 4 pound weight is good and that you can try and transfer that over to Joe
[02:12:58] Dmitik who just got off the battlefield three weeks ago
[02:13:02] Yeah, he's a different animal
[02:13:05] Yeah, because you're an exception too right to like what they what they're trained and what they're really good at caring for
[02:13:12] You come in and this is like this isn't really typical that we all have to deal with
[02:13:16] Yeah, why are we gonna change our whole system?
[02:13:18] Yeah, exactly but even things like I remember the first couple nurses that came into my room
[02:13:25] They were like oh hey honey, what happened with car accident?
[02:13:28] Rean a motorcycle you're on a motor really well losing your foot is very typical of motorcycle accident
[02:13:33] But they didn't I'm like oh I stepped on a landmine and Afghanistan we even have soldiers in Afghanistan
[02:13:41] Yeah, and I was like oh so hence hence this part of the book
[02:13:47] Ironically one of the biggest emotional problems I had to deal with was the anger I felt towards a medical system
[02:13:54] That did not seem to be able to respond appropriately to my needs
[02:14:00] Now you ended up putting on weight because you couldn't exercise
[02:14:04] And you do give a little shout out right here to the dairy queen
[02:14:08] And you say the dairy queen is delicious when you're depressed
[02:14:12] Oh, it's so good.
[02:14:15] Once it hits the lips
[02:14:18] The peanut butter cups and it's worldly ice cream
[02:14:22] I might have to get one right after this jacco
[02:14:25] We might have to find a dairy queen up in here
[02:14:28] So in conjunction with the therapy sessions
[02:14:32] I also started taking an anti-depressant to start to help control my moods
[02:14:38] And then there was the other kind of pain the physical kind I was still using pain killers to dull the pain that was there each and every day
[02:14:47] I needed that relief so badly but in the end that too caused me tremendous suffering
[02:14:53] And I turned into something I never thought I would be an addict
[02:14:59] We've definitely our scene this happened with our wounded veterans
[02:15:12] And here you go. In no time I was taking more of the drug that I was supposed to in order to relieve my psychological and physical pain
[02:15:22] The addiction worsened and I started crushing the pills into a powder and snorting it to get a better high
[02:15:29] Those pills gave me relief from my stress and mental pain if only for a little while
[02:15:36] But as soon as they wore off, my demons would return
[02:15:42] I worried about my future
[02:15:47] If I wasn't a soldier who was I
[02:15:57] And you've already said that a bunch of times that feeling of I mean everything you'd been in your life
[02:16:06] From when you were a kid that was what was inside of you and then you were able to act on that
[02:16:12] And become that soldier serving combat get after it on the battlefield
[02:16:19] My whole adult life I became a man in the military
[02:16:23] I joined as a 17 year old, 174 pound, 6 foot, 4 skinny weakling
[02:16:31] I grew into the man that you see and that question when I was reading that
[02:16:39] When I had a buddy that retired the other day
[02:16:43] You know, 25 years
[02:16:46] And I just said to him I said, now was it clean now your locker
[02:16:50] Because I don't know what it's like for you guys but in the sealed teams you have a locker
[02:16:53] And that's your whole career is physically represented
[02:16:57] And the lockers are big. They're walking lockers. They're awesome
[02:17:01] Oh wow, each guy has a walking locker
[02:17:04] And there's a big drawing we call them a drying cage or calm cages because it's just made with a chain link
[02:17:09] Basically, but each guy has their own, their own, their own, this is big is this office
[02:17:14] You've got cruise boxes in there and it's your whole career is physically represented
[02:17:18] Of everything you've ever been issued anything that you picked up along the way
[02:17:22] Trinkets, everything is in your drying cage
[02:17:25] And when you retire
[02:17:27] You go, you clean out your cage, it's empty, you sweep out the floor, you glowed into your van
[02:17:33] You drive home and that's it, it's over
[02:17:35] And so I said to my buddy there, I said, you know, how was it?
[02:17:39] How was it clean out your drying cage?
[02:17:41] Because for me, I wasn't even worried about retiring
[02:17:44] I'm like, okay, I gotta go do this, I gotta do this, I'm all good, come back
[02:17:48] Clean it out my cage
[02:17:50] And I'm like, oh, this is over
[02:17:52] And for me, I spent 18 out of 20 years out here on the west coast
[02:17:55] And all within like a stone's throw of the different buildings
[02:18:01] I mean, all within these certain number of buildings
[02:18:05] Since I was a kid
[02:18:07] And the question, so when I was reading that you wrote this
[02:18:12] That's what I was thinking about
[02:18:13] What my buddy was thinking
[02:18:15] If I'm not a soldier, if I'm not a seal, then what am I?
[02:18:21] And that's a tough question to answer
[02:18:25] For a lot of guys
[02:18:27] It's brutal and it comes back to what we were talking about before
[02:18:31] Dwelling
[02:18:32] Right
[02:18:34] I, it was really hard for me because I didn't choose to leave
[02:18:43] I'd always imagine I'd be abounded
[02:18:46] I don't know why, like, you know, visualization is very important
[02:18:51] In my opinion, in our line of work
[02:18:53] And so I'd always try to envision a good being wound, okay, but it was like the cool scar across the cheek
[02:19:00] Or like some shrapnel in the rib cage
[02:19:02] I could show off a barbecue, you know, and talk about when I'm like 80
[02:19:05] Yeah, so I've got some Taliban and menl in there
[02:19:07] But, you know, like, it's that or it's a body bag
[02:19:11] You don't think about the in-between
[02:19:13] Even our system, right, our medical system and Canada
[02:19:16] Lots of body bags, lots of bandages
[02:19:19] But, the in-between part, they kind of dropped the ball
[02:19:24] Yeah, and years ago
[02:19:26] World War I probably World War II, you wouldn't have made it
[02:19:30] They wouldn't have to deal with you
[02:19:32] No, because you would have blood out
[02:19:34] They didn't know teach RippleC, they wouldn't have gotten your calves back
[02:19:37] I mean, it would have been you would have died, that's all the rest of it
[02:19:40] Yeah, double amputation, yeah, forget about it
[02:19:42] So they just didn't have that back then
[02:19:45] Vietnam got a lot better
[02:19:47] In terms of the Casivac situation, they could have a lot faster
[02:19:50] That's why you don't have a lot more of it
[02:19:52] But, figure out what you're going to do next
[02:19:55] And you held onto it, you held onto it, you tried to hang onto it
[02:20:00] Because you decided you know what, I'm going to still be a soldier
[02:20:02] Yeah, you got done with it, you did a half marathon
[02:20:05] But after that half marathon, you were just to beat up
[02:20:09] Yeah, from that, and you decided that
[02:20:15] Well, here's what you put in the book, I tell people
[02:20:18] That Jodie the soldier was wounded in January of 2007
[02:20:22] But it took him about two years to die
[02:20:24] To let the soldier in you go
[02:20:28] And I'm going to continue
[02:20:33] Of course, this wasn't an easy decision for me
[02:20:36] And I was filled with rage and anger
[02:20:38] And again, I started using oxy-coctin
[02:20:41] As a relief from the pain of loss
[02:20:45] It became my problem yet again
[02:20:47] But I diluted myself into believing I had it under my control
[02:20:52] You talk about this thing where you're reading a reader's digest article
[02:21:03] Yeah, and there's an oxy-coctin addict in there
[02:21:06] Yeah, and he's talking about how he's shooting it up
[02:21:09] And you said to yourself, you weren't thinking, oh, that's horrible
[02:21:13] I can't believe you're like, I didn't know you could answer that
[02:21:17] And that is what hits you
[02:21:20] Yeah, and I think that is what hits you
[02:21:25] Realizing that's when you realize you weren't in control
[02:21:28] I mean, that's got to be that moment
[02:21:30] Because the story was he was a doctor, I believe, injecting himself
[02:21:36] In the bathroom and his young daughter walked in
[02:21:39] And I had now had a young daughter
[02:21:41] And I could just, I now am like, and in my mind, it wasn't
[02:21:45] Oh, imagine if my daughter caught me going to inject, I went, oh, I can inject
[02:21:50] And I even went through a second way
[02:21:54] I remember how great it was to get the intervenes drugs in the hospital
[02:21:58] And then the next second was, oh, this is not good
[02:22:03] This is not good
[02:22:05] And then when I ended up buying, I ended up buying per cassette, which is like
[02:22:10] Goxie cotton, but like, from a guy that I knew through another guy
[02:22:15] And it was they were in Ziplock bags
[02:22:17] Basically a drug deal
[02:22:19] Remember that thing they got me arrested 20 years ago
[02:22:23] And I went, okay, this is it, this ends here
[02:22:28] Well, that's an awesome, I mean, that's awesome credit to you all that
[02:22:32] Because so many people, unfortunately they don't take ownership of that
[02:22:37] They don't say to themselves, you know what?
[02:22:40] I am addicted and this thing is controlling me
[02:22:43] And they always say things like just what you said, oh, I got this under control
[02:22:47] I can stop if I want to, I just don't want to
[02:22:50] I need it, I'm in pain
[02:22:52] There he go
[02:22:53] I had to take it
[02:22:55] Yeah
[02:22:55] And I would ask the doctors, I would say, how do we get, how do we get me off this?
[02:22:58] And this was still, you know, oh seven, oh eight
[02:23:01] Nine, I think it was 2011 before I finished
[02:23:05] Or got off them
[02:23:07] They still had, and candidly, anyway, hadn't realized what oxy cotton was capable of
[02:23:13] And so the dogs, it's like three days of withdrawals
[02:23:17] It's fine, don't worry about it
[02:23:19] Those withdrawals were worse than being wounded
[02:23:23] Those three days, here's your quote
[02:23:27] Those three days were absolute horror
[02:23:31] Quitting oxy cotton was harder and more painful
[02:23:35] Then getting blown up in Afghanistan
[02:23:38] Yeah
[02:23:41] Because, because it was three days
[02:23:45] Whereas I was in the worst
[02:23:48] Jocco echo, I cannot tell you what the pain was like
[02:23:52] Because it was so bad
[02:23:53] And that was the pain from going from withdrawals
[02:23:56] No, the pain from getting blown up
[02:23:57] Okay, so the pain from getting blown up
[02:23:58] I cannot describe it to you
[02:24:00] But the withdrawals lasted three days of that kind of pain
[02:24:05] Because your body and your mind are trying to trick you
[02:24:08] You're still in pain, man, you're still in pain, you should take him, you should take him
[02:24:12] But once, you know what's funny?
[02:24:14] Though the three days, it's almost like you hit a switch
[02:24:18] And suddenly the pain starts to dissipate
[02:24:21] The hollow feeling in your chest
[02:24:24] And just to fill back in
[02:24:27] The that stop crawling on your skin
[02:24:30] Because that's ergoing through all that
[02:24:32] I was grinding the stumps of my legs into the coach
[02:24:35] To give it some kind of other sensation
[02:24:38] Other than I described it as like
[02:24:41] It was like a dog, you ever watch a dog chew on a bone
[02:24:43] When he's going to between his paws and he's just going to town
[02:24:46] Like with his teeth, that's what it felt like
[02:24:48] On the ends of my legs
[02:24:49] my legs was like I had like an animal just knowing on my legs. And then one day of you know
[02:24:57] wherever the third or second and two and a half for three days later I realized I'm like
[02:25:01] oh most of that's kind of pretty much gone. It's crazy. And I tell you there's Jodi before
[02:25:10] he quit ox cotton and then there's Jodi a Jodi before he quit was still trying his best
[02:25:16] and doing well and if you talked to anybody was the guy a lot of people looked up to but
[02:25:21] things really started to turn around after I quit. You know I really started to become
[02:25:26] capable of a lot in my mind I think there's a big difference. But man that shit just my
[02:25:33] buddy he's a he's a parrot trooper and he had to get some surgery on his knee. You know
[02:25:39] parrot troopers are always banging up their knees and the dogger gave him a coating or
[02:25:44] a ton of three or something like that and he literally took it and threw it in the garbage.
[02:25:48] He's like I saw it out in a jodi. I just like I don't even I don't want anything.
[02:25:53] And that's my advice kids out there do not take it if you don't if you can greet your
[02:26:00] teeth enough do not take that shit. Stay clean. Do your best. I wouldn't trust me around it now.
[02:26:08] If you had one I might take it. I don't it's good. Let's just take some more of this
[02:26:16] alphabet brain. Take the alphabet brain. I'll get on it instead of getting addicted again.
[02:26:21] Get off it by getting on it. So now you get through it you're not addicted to
[02:26:32] oxycod anymore and now it's what do my gonna do with my life. Yeah and here you go. What did I
[02:26:39] actually want and what was possible and could I really put my military pass behind me and
[02:26:45] pursue something else that would make me feel fulfilled but it was time to stop asking questions.
[02:26:50] It was time to find some answers.
[02:26:52] And here you're kind of referring back and it's the last chapter. It's called on my own two feet.
[02:27:11] I would actually still get a sense of humor after all this. Can't make fun of yourself man.
[02:27:15] Taking life way to series. So a lot of professional athletes will tell you they missed
[02:27:20] two things when they retire the competition on the field and the camaraderie with the team late
[02:27:24] teammates in the locker room. It's the exact same thing for soldiers after we leave the armed forces.
[02:27:30] When I see soldiers on parade I still get chills down my spine because I loved it so much.
[02:27:40] Just letting everybody know that that's completely normal. For all you guys that got out for
[02:27:44] whatever reason totally normal. Jody feels it. I feel it. We all feel that.
[02:27:52] So then you went and did the amazing race in Canada. Yeah we had the you got second place with your brother.
[02:28:00] Second place and it was the first season because the American amazing race was the most popular
[02:28:05] show in Canada. So let's make a Canadian. Let's make a Canadian one. If Canadians love anything
[02:28:10] more than the American version it's the Canadian version. Then you ended up doing this city councilor thing.
[02:28:17] Yeah. And that's where you're at now. That's where I'm at now.
[02:28:26] You know one part that we haven't talked about and I'm gonna do it a little bit of
[02:28:31] uh I'm gonna score a few brownie points here at home. So I said they had to plow a road to me. Yeah.
[02:28:39] To rescue me right. They literally plowed a road with a combat bulldozer and right behind it was what
[02:28:45] we call a buys and ambulance and it's an eight-wheeled almost built in the same factory as the LAV in Ontario.
[02:28:53] And London Ontario Canada by unionized workers and and the commander of that vehicle was
[02:29:04] master corpola lana Gilmore of the Canadian forces medical corps who is now my wife retired
[02:29:11] surgeon a lana Gilmore of the Canadian forces medical corps and we have two beautiful daughters
[02:29:19] Aela seven and cure a four and we we we managed to connect I was wounded in January we connected
[02:29:34] in September or Octoberish of the same of 2007 my girlfriend that I had had when I got wounded had
[02:29:41] left no fault of hers I don't blame her one one bit you know to get thrown into a situation where
[02:29:49] you have to care for a wounded soldier a guy who before was like a rock you know and that's not what
[02:29:57] she signed up for right and and and a lana had recently broken up with with with her partner as well
[02:30:04] and when we found each other though the fact that she was a hot Irish blonde was just really
[02:30:09] a bonus got to be honest and and she took one you know jocco I call medics they're like
[02:30:17] our momies what do you guys have corps men you call them because combat guys were little
[02:30:24] loads that saying if you're gonna be tough you if you're gonna be dumb you got to be tough
[02:30:28] you're gonna be stupid you got to be tough yeah and that's and that's us we need the corpsmen
[02:30:31] or the medic to be like hey hey hey jocco why are you limping what come here come here
[02:30:36] come here come here no no no not in front of the other troops mom stop it stop it and and so that's
[02:30:41] their job so she saw me she took one look at me she's like you look terrible I was surviving on
[02:30:47] vector cereal and drive through sandwiches because I was by myself all the boys were still deployed
[02:30:54] or on course and I was living in my own private house on base so I'd moved on to base I had this
[02:31:02] little puppy Charlie who wasn't he's not a service dog by any stretch but he's the only
[02:31:07] reason I got it a bed in the morning so I owe him he's still my buddy still at that he's at the
[02:31:11] house right now and so she went into medic mode really she went you know what you should come
[02:31:19] by my house bring your dog you can play with my dog and you know let's just hang out and when we got
[02:31:25] when we saw each other though it was camaraderie she was one of the last people to see me on the
[02:31:30] battlefield she carried my stretcher to the to the to the evac chopper and you know if you talk to her
[02:31:38] the fact that I was you know a bearded hot guy was just a bonus to her too and you know
[02:31:47] eventually I let her kiss me guys okay passively I'm sure yeah now she likes she she's going to
[02:31:56] ask me did you tell jockel the same joke you tell everyone else that I kissed you but when we we got
[02:32:04] pregnant a little quick a Elizabeth A September do the math so but you know we realized
[02:32:16] we talked about it when we talked about the survivors guilt you don't you didn't survive
[02:32:20] you know your friends live for your friends I didn't survive and she didn't like her vehicle hit
[02:32:28] landmines and she was ambushes and all you know near near death on a battlefield is a bullet
[02:32:34] going in from your head that's near death yeah you laugh about it after but that's so she was in
[02:32:40] all that too and so she's pregnant and and I should have died and who knows what could have happened
[02:32:47] to her and who were we to deny what's happening you know so I I have I had to throw that out there
[02:32:53] that you know I have three beautiful blondes in my life with blue eyed blondes that you know
[02:33:00] keep me in check and because I the the feelings I had in the book they're not all in the past
[02:33:09] you know I woke up yesterday when I missed the flight man it it was more
[02:33:15] that I was disappointing you right and hear me out right because I was just like I was like
[02:33:25] I'm the city counselor and a lot of guys look up to me and this and that and all you know
[02:33:29] like got these kids and you know Lanna and I and I still can't make a fucking flight you know
[02:33:35] and I haven't even met the guy yet and I'm already disappointing him and that went through me
[02:33:39] and it's all because I stepped on that stupid landline but I wouldn't even be here if I had
[02:33:44] stepped on that landline I wouldn't have had these I wouldn't have these kids if I hadn't
[02:33:48] stepped on that landline after my second fiance walked out of the house and my you know like
[02:33:53] all I said that's my joke I like all good soldiers I have three ex fiancees and it does an
[02:33:57] ex girlfriend's sacrifice to the queen because we still swear allegiance to the queen
[02:34:02] because it's real that's like you said the teams come first and I had said well I'm going to retire
[02:34:09] about 44 with 25 years in so why don't I just start kids and I'll add that and I'm sure my life
[02:34:16] would be fine if I hadn't stepped on the landline but would it be as fulfilling would I be as as as
[02:34:24] as broad or would I be as complete I'm sure I'd be a kickass speck-op sniper somewhere doing
[02:34:33] something but I couldn't have met like if if I had a wish to not step on the mine but I wouldn't
[02:34:43] get to keep the kids I'd step on that mine 10 times at a ten and so I had to you know I'd throw
[02:34:50] it in there and give credit to Lana for what she did for me and also my friends and family right
[02:34:58] this nobody does it no one's a rock you know so I just had to say all that yeah no and I actually
[02:35:06] I have a question about your wife okay I was going to keep you an opportunity to steal some of your
[02:35:10] thunder not at all not at all I'm glad you I'm glad you put that out there and also I didn't want
[02:35:16] to steal thunder from your book right and it was one of the things that I was going to tell people I mean
[02:35:21] obviously I think people who's going to buy this I mean obviously I there's this is the a big book
[02:35:27] which I've taken some excerpts out of yeah and there's so much more in it when you read it
[02:35:33] and you get the whole the whole package one of which is you explaining these relationships
[02:35:38] with your wife with your kids how that happened which is just I mean for all practical purposes
[02:35:48] let's just call it what it is that's a miracle yeah
[02:35:55] here's how it closes out people often ask me if I regret my time in afghanistan because it
[02:36:04] cost me my two feet and completely changed my life if you live your life with regrets then you
[02:36:13] never move forward those six months in afghanistan before the explosion were some of the best
[02:36:19] times of my life I can honestly say as I look back on my life in the military I wouldn't
[02:36:27] have changed a thing if I hadn't stepped on that landmine I would never have connected with a
[02:36:32] Lana I would never have had two beautiful daughters my mind and body were pushed to the limit
[02:36:40] after my accident and ironically I came out on the other side a better more complete person
[02:36:46] maybe life would be easier now if I hadn't lost a part of both legs but it certainly wouldn't have
[02:36:55] been any more complete when I when I am in public today advocating for veterans rights or simply
[02:37:02] going about my daily life people sometimes approach me to say thank you for your service
[02:37:08] those five words mean more to me than anything else
[02:37:24] and now I'd like to say something jodie from me
[02:37:27] and on behalf of every american Canadian Brit australian and arrested a free world
[02:37:41] thank you for your service and your inspiration to all of us
[02:37:49] to overcome obstacles and to make a difference in the world
[02:38:02] thank you thank you man and you got to tear my eye right now don't do it you're on YouTube no doubt no doubt
[02:38:10] thank you juggle thank you too for your service don't thank me and I think that's going to be
[02:38:21] enough for tonight so if you haven't got this feeling yet you're listening to podcasts
[02:38:30] I know you're going to want to go out and get this book it's called unflinching the making of a
[02:38:36] Canadian sniper by my man right here jodie medic it's what you want to read about
[02:38:46] that's right and you can get it anywhere books are bought you can get on amazon
[02:38:51] I recommend for my american cousins use amazon through uh what is it the jocco podcast
[02:38:57] the jocco store he wants to go through jocco store I like your recommendations there go to the
[02:39:01] jocco store click on the amazon link so jocco gets a little piece of the pie the paper back is out
[02:39:08] so you save a few bucks and be a nontr to uh to have you guys read my book
[02:39:15] if you uh you're on social media the web I do the webs web yeah jodie medic jodi mint i
[02:39:23] see on twitter instagram snapchat and facebook snapchat i have no idea how to snapchat with
[02:39:31] everything everybody uses it jodie medic yeah i'm a people use it okay i'm convinced
[02:39:40] it was not gonna judge okay not gonna judge yeah i find jodie medic on instagram facebook
[02:39:48] twitter and for all you 14 year olds out there you can get them on snapchat hey the 14 year olds
[02:39:57] need to hear this that's true actually probably need to hear it so snapchat is becoming like a real
[02:40:01] right yeah yeah i think it originated as that kind of it's like hey let me send you this
[02:40:06] isn't this kind of cool undercover and it goes away i'm convinced it was a dick pick it's
[02:40:11] a third out for some of the send it pick yeah and then someone found a legit weighted network or some
[02:40:18] that's so it's a real deal now on well certainly so even the rock is on the snapchat right on
[02:40:26] and honor sure um i uh the chances of me being here tonight are are are very limited we have
[02:40:35] twitter to thank literally one of my fans and one of your fans basically had had locked us on twitter
[02:40:42] and made us talk to each other and uh and i became a fan when you were on the rogue and show
[02:40:47] and podcasting you know i we talked a little bit at lunch it it really helped me when i was going
[02:40:52] through some rough times and you know i want to thank you for let me come down here to this
[02:40:57] beautiful city and and do this for me and you know thank you for writing your book and being who you
[02:41:03] are and and echo thanks for for helping him make this happen and you know i got a podcast i'm
[02:41:10] starting the jodimitic podcast and uh their may or may not be an episode up uh and the next couple
[02:41:15] days but if people want to look for me there as well i'd be honored to try and entertain them as closely
[02:41:22] as you do and uh and as and as all the other podcasts i love to and you know i just do this to try and
[02:41:28] be me you know i don't know who the new jodimitic is i call i'm calling myself jodie three point
[02:41:33] old right now uh and and and and and this life is a trip you know i call myself a student of the
[02:41:41] human condition and i'm always learning i'm always learning and i and i love to meet new people and
[02:41:47] um yeah that's all i want to say right now man i appreciate this a lot you have no idea
[02:41:53] well we appreciate everything that you've done as i've already said to everybody else out that
[02:41:56] that's listed i think we're gonna actually continue this on and we're gonna go to a q and a
[02:42:03] on the next podcast and we'll just roll that out afterwards but for right now and for this
[02:42:13] evening i think that's all about all we've got so everyone that's out there that listen to this
[02:42:17] that knows that a person can go to some depths and can climb right back out of those depths
[02:42:29] get out there and get after it until next time this is echo and jodie and jockel out