Jocko Podcast 236 w/ Jeff Higgs: You Will Get Beat Down. The Projects, SEALS, and Martial Arts

2020-07-01T19:36:24Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:05:49 - Jeff Higgs.  The Projects, Military, and Martial Arts. 2:07:21 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:35:30 - How to stay on THE PATH. Jocko Fuel: https://originmaine.com/origin-labs/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:50:40 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

I got books on swimming workouts how to swim how to you know get more hydrodynamic this kind of thing how much swimming did you do in the projects not really any I mean like in the summer there's a pool right near it the pool is three feet and then they have a little baby pool so that was another thing about walking change when when I would go to the pool I mean I mean on several occasions I mean James if you're out there listening you almost killed me a couple of times and I'm like kidney he would you know there's like a ladder you can walk out he would get me under there and stand on me and hold me there like trying to drown me and the worst feeling I ever had was like just you know I'm in the water and like I'm bouncing like bobbing because it's too deep Yeah, I would say, you know, everyone has that, um, pivotal point in their life where like, I guess you can say like, in a sense, it's lost like it's not like, you know, a fairy tale and like, you know, I basically, death was introduced really quickly, you know, early on in my life. but if you start jujitsu at whatever you know 24 or 31 or whatever you start later in life to get the reps in for the take-down game when you're a little bit more fragile and compared to a kid that wrestled you know six years old eight years old ten years old through high school had you know hundreds of tournaments hundreds of hours in the on the mat doing take downs and by the time like that's whether you have seen so dominated by wrestlers because they are they have that in thing just embedded they don't they don't need to learn that that's embedded in them they know how to get that take down they know how to get out the take down they know how to scramble there's a huge part of that wrestling comes in and that's what's when you start taking that and you just make replace wrestling with sombo and now you've been doing that your whole life which has take downs like like you said Jeff occurred me have ever wanted to do that it's what I think it's important to know like you know in spec ops a lot of guys are gonna use dip true into faculty because of that reason it's like a little bit of you know catapomber is not so everything well it was good enough but my vision you know I you know glasses so one of the one of the guys there that worked in one of the dive motivators Steve Collins that another really pivotal person in my life he was like hey man if you really interested in going the sealed training you know we can work on switching your orders and you'll have to work as you know for us as you know the dive motivator check I was like Because I was like, you know, I, um, just really curious, you know, there were a lot of things in my mind that, you know, that I didn't really know my mom, like, I think I should, like, should have. Because you know what it is actually like you make a good point where it's like, and people got to point this out like people's like that's, I mean that that's obviously like good that you say that. I thought he like I thought the guy died of exhaustion or something in the ring I don't know if you remember that one it was me and the Armenian guys are cranking the Armenian music on boomboxes and stuff it was so crazy it was not dude and the cool thing is that's like the caro-present crew like that's them so like when caro-present was like oh yeah and and you know what a lot not a lot of it let's just say some of it was wrong some of it like some of it got taken to a point where it was not good for morale it wasn't good for unity you know some of the hazing got to a point where you're like hey that that's not that's not okay like that's wrong some of it's good you know some of it's and so I got my blue belt from hoist Gracie and never had trained with him at all but got my blue belt there to do the tournament because like two years you know go in the blue belt division but I had never trained with the geek like when I got there I was like you know everyone had Gizmo and I was like we had all has done no geek and my first opponent was Craig Cole fobby was first black belt done here I didn't dip sense that was my one and only jealous that was your opportunity does it like jam you like when you dip and you haven't ever does it like you feel like actual effects right like waste job like it jams you up kind of heart to dip you know it's I'm not quitting it's like I don't even have control the situation and uh essentially uh at that point there like you know you can't continue the training you're going to get killed you know they had a someone of you classes ahead who had died out in San Clemente you know he did a swim a four mile oceans swim came out of the water and just fell down and I just felt sick on the swim like nauseated and really weak and tired like not normal and when I got out of the water you know we just got hammered because we filled the swim and then I had to go in and you know uh to uh um these are just getting hammered and so it was uh that was like on a Thursday it's in the weekend and then um Tuesday comes along and I was like it's a good way to get good condition for judo you know learn something different and that that's another thing I remember is when you came to my house to fight me I was like well what what what what would you uh you know if you if we were going to fight how would you what would you do like how would you start it and you did some weird capoetta stuff And you know how, like you're like, okay, I want to go to this, I don't know, chicken restaurant or something, or maybe even a place where maybe the experience there is more significant, like, you know, a martial arts place or whatever. I don't know what happened that we had all the gear like we got full scuba tanks with air and brought them into the dip tank and just murder each other I don't know that's not legal you know like that's not okay you can't do that that's like if you if you're changing yeah especially like early when he showed up he would be would go hard he was there he was there to win every time it's you know I look at that now in hindsight you know having have some had some judo experiences well judo the the um the way people attack is um I would say they're trying to make you tap there they're not looking for you to tap like you know I have I've even traveled in certain areas in Asia you can no one taps to chokes it's just So when like what you're talking about is essentially like, you know, if you have, you know, you have kids, right, where let's say, you know, I don't know, you have a goal to get somewhere to do something. I know I know everything you know like it's like I know the alphabet you're gonna be like buzzing kind of hardcore right were you buzzing from the dip is what I'm saying I didn't know it's not like I felt like I bought a motor and pain and just thinking like this is horrible yeah don't you think it's a little bit too like the culture over there is a little bit different just in terms of like yeah Russian culture is very different why because they're getting not more often like the guys with the leg but like you say you see everyone with a leg rap meaning they kind of maybe have an injury or hurt legs yes leg locks and so you know on some time off I got a big thing of that weight gain powder I got a bunch of milk like whole milk and uh I would order two for one dominoes pizza and I was just constantly drinking the milk with the weight gain I would eat a pizza before I went to sleep with the weight gain and the milk sent my clock for three in the morning and eat the other pizza you know it's it got disgusting now I had at a certain point like I'm not a pizza fan anymore hey you know um do they have like any kind of you know like any other places I can train you know I want to learn more and I was the biggest thing for me as I was kind of surprised you know I expected to walk through the quarter deck and just get ripped apart and start becoming a different you know you know like the James Bond movie echo Charles you know where the door opens and there's people training that was another big deal like George White Steve Collins um struck the Roberts these guys really made a difference because they were like hey you know they weren't like you know show me everything And, uh, these guys would, every time they would see me, you know, they were high on something and they would make the sound like, you know, and when I heard that, I was like, I, you know, I would start running. but back then you went to army jump school there for a penny soldier and that's where seals get like a horrible I guess kind of a horrible reputation because like you're coming out of buds back in the day you'd go to airborne school which airborne is a very conventional school to go to like everyone it like a lot not everyone but a lot of people go to the go to the army jump school what how can what can you create really is what it falls down to there's a creativity aspect that's another thing that you kind of excel at with jiu jitsu is a there's the creative aspect of kind of creating moves and creating series that work really well together how much how much you went like I remember you know when I would see you because because eventually you know we weren't all training at fob you was anymore we were training at different places and so when I'd see you would always be like you'd be deep into yoga you'd be deep in a kettlebells or you'd be deep into Bulgarian bag or you'd be deep in the sombo you were always going down these different paths to add to your to add to your repertoire of moves and movement and strength and conditioning They're not like, they're not like, they're not like, they're not like, they're not like, they're all get over your quitter. I'm gonna try anything I can you know just looking at the world seeing what everything's about you know I think uh people who do come from areas like the projects in a sense you're kind of sequestered and you're not maybe seeing the big picture of things and I will say that's something for everyone you know you're in your environment and no one ever sees the whole picture maybe we see most of the picture but not the whole thing Um, I'm not, uh, one thing about my school work, I'm not like the best student, like going to school and, you know, getting grades and stuff like that. And that's the way, I mean, I think I guess you could say like Bruce Lee, you know, he was kind of an early adopter, and you know, if it doesn't, you know, he had some great quotes of which I can't think of any right now, but it's a good, what's useful, this guy at the right. So I was like, you know, and also I wanted to, I always wanted to try different things, you know, and see, you know, what's that like? and I'm thinking about you know getting out and he's like well you know Steve was like you know you should maybe check out a tournament

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 236 with echo Charles and me, Jockel willing. Good evening, echo. Good evening.
[00:00:07] When I went through basic seal training, there were two people recognized with an award at the end of training.
[00:00:21] The first award was for the honor man. And the honor man is the guy in the class. I think it's for the best sort of overall performance, which is mostly physical running swimming off-scalcourse pull-ups, sit-ups, whatever other physical events you do life saving and not tying and buddy breathing and pool competency.
[00:00:50] You kind of have to just do good at everything and not just good. You have to do really good at everything.
[00:00:57] It seems like the honor man is going to be one of those people who did some kind of athletics in high school, maybe even college.
[00:01:10] The last the honor man was a complete badass. His name was Keith Camira, total stud. And I don't remember everything about Buds, but I remember that he won just about everything.
[00:01:25] Although there was one other guy that was always right there with him, but somehow Keith must have edged him out enough times to become the honor man. I never was close enough to the front of the pack to know which of those two guys won, but obviously it must have been Keith.
[00:01:45] Because he was just pretty much savage at everything. And even after Seal training he pushed himself hard, tried to maintain that edge.
[00:01:56] And after his first tour at a team, he went back to Buds to be an instructor.
[00:02:03] And on January 10th, 1997, Keith was practicing breath holds during an evolution with the students in the dive tower.
[00:02:16] And the other instructors were, they were working with the students and they were running the evolution and they weren't tracking Keith, who was down at the bottom of the 50 foot tower holding his breath.
[00:02:31] And at some point, at some point he passed out.
[00:02:36] And because he was just sitting down there, almost in a meditative way, no one really noticed that he had passed out.
[00:02:45] He took on water by the time the other instructors recognized what had happened. He was unconscious.
[00:02:55] And he never regained consciousness. And he ended up dying the next day, January 11th, 1997.
[00:03:11] A better man than me.
[00:03:18] The other person, the other award that gets given out at the end of Buds, is called the Fire in the Gut Award.
[00:03:32] And I don't know if there's some kind of official definition for this award, but it seems like the award was given to the individual that had to dig the deepest to get through the training.
[00:03:47] And who in doing so, also inspired and motivated the rest of the class.
[00:03:58] And in my class, class 177, that was another bad ask man.
[00:04:07] And he was a guy by the name of Jeff Higgs. And his journey to Buds to Basic Seal Training and through Basic Seal Training is a pretty incredible story.
[00:04:26] And because of that, you know, we're brothers, but we're brothers, not only because we went to Buds together, not only because we served at Seal Team one together, but also through Jiu Jitsu.
[00:04:41] I'm pretty sure we both started the Jiu Jitsu journey, the same exact day. And we are connected through our Jiu Jitsu lineage, because Jeff Higgs eventually got his black belt.
[00:05:01] He gave the black belt to Dean Mr. Dean Mr. gave the black belt to me. And I guess we should include that there's also a connected lineage here to echo Charles who then received his black belt from me.
[00:05:18] And it's been a while, but it's an honor to have Jeff here with me today to share his experiences, his knowledge, his outlook and his lessons learned in life.
[00:05:34] Jeff, we...
[00:05:36] Thanks for having me.
[00:05:37] Thanks for coming all, man.
[00:05:39] You're always good to see you, to hear you, I heard you at some pretty... I heard you voice at some pretty traumatic times in my life.
[00:05:50] So it's always good to sit down with you. Obviously we trained a ton, but let's start at the beginning. Let's start at young Jeff Higgs.
[00:06:01] Where were you born?
[00:06:02] I was born in Ram's Yor and North Carolina, it's a town like almost smack dab in the middle of the state.
[00:06:10] Print rural area.
[00:06:11] And what was the situation there?
[00:06:14] What was your mom and dad doing there? What was the scenario?
[00:06:17] At the time, my parents were separated, so I was, you know, my mom had me there and moved back to New York when I was about three.
[00:06:27] So was she a New Yorker originally? No, my mom's from that town.
[00:06:32] And where was your dad from?
[00:06:34] My dad was born in the Bronx grew up in Harlem.
[00:06:38] And so then...
[00:06:40] So they moved down there together, or were they already split up and she took you down?
[00:06:45] Yeah, they were split up.
[00:06:46] And I wasn't born yet, so I was born down there, the rest of my family was born in New York.
[00:06:53] And then you moved back to New York at what age?
[00:06:57] Three, my mom moved back.
[00:06:59] So at this point, I had really met my father and my mom moved back to New York.
[00:07:07] And then there was a kind of a whole family issue thing that I wouldn't want to get into publicly.
[00:07:14] But my dad got custed to me and ended up growing there with my father and going to my mother's back and forth on weekends.
[00:07:22] And then whereabouts in New York where you live in?
[00:07:26] So I grew up on Staten Island in a place called West Brighton Projects.
[00:07:31] So that's where I lived with my father and my mom lived in another project called Park Hill Projects.
[00:07:39] So a lot of people familiar with that, Stapleton Park Hill, are right next to each other, like the Wood Tank Clan, is from Stapleton.
[00:07:48] From West Brighton, Walkin' Home's area.
[00:07:52] There was like the 470s.
[00:07:54] There were some people who had come out of that area that had gotten fame.
[00:07:58] And then like I remember when I was a kid and I would take the train down to the city.
[00:08:03] And we would go by, you know, I'm coming down from New England from Connecticut.
[00:08:10] You know, we're in the sticks, you know, I grew up on a dirt road.
[00:08:14] And so we'd be on a train, me and my buddies, and you'd be going through the projects for...
[00:08:22] It's probably... it seemed like about maybe 20 minutes of riding the train,
[00:08:28] where it's just building, building, building, building.
[00:08:32] You can tell that they're in rough shape.
[00:08:36] And, you know, I'd always be sitting there on this train, coming in from a really rural area.
[00:08:42] And looking in there thinking, that looks rough.
[00:08:46] Yeah.
[00:08:48] You know, old projects very much the same in the Northeast area, you know, there are rough areas.
[00:08:54] So what did your dad do for a living?
[00:08:56] My dad worked with like a housing.
[00:09:00] So he didn't have too much education, but, you know, he did what he could.
[00:09:06] And he worked in the housing department.
[00:09:08] So he worked in the... like, for the projects for the city.
[00:09:12] Like, you know, I remember, like, as a kid, he would take me into these big boy-ther rooms.
[00:09:18] Like, we'd go down underneath the building.
[00:09:20] And, you know, for it's winter in New York, you have these boy-theres that heat the buildings.
[00:09:26] And the boy-theres are huge. You know, you could see the fire in there, and you'd show me how to show me the gauges,
[00:09:32] and all that, and how to operate, it was pretty cool.
[00:09:34] And it did you... what? I know you have, at least a sister, what else did you have for siblings?
[00:09:38] I have three older brothers and two older sisters, so on the youngest.
[00:09:44] The youngest.
[00:09:46] Yeah.
[00:09:48] Were all that, were all of you co-located in the same house with your dad?
[00:09:52] Uh, yes, you know, there are all kinds of situations that are not out of there.
[00:09:58] So I'm not really going to be the bulletin my family is to really bring up book or something like that.
[00:10:02] Yeah.
[00:10:04] But so it was pretty much some of the kids that were around some of the time.
[00:10:08] You're around sounds like you said weekends with your mom, but the rest of the time with your dad.
[00:10:14] Yeah.
[00:10:15] And for the most part, my brothers and sisters, we were with my father.
[00:10:19] Okay.
[00:10:20] And I visited my mom on the weekends.
[00:10:22] And then what were you doing? Like, what were your interests? What was going to school like?
[00:10:28] Okay. As a kid, I was very thin.
[00:10:33] And I had an incident happened, like, I guess, like a second grade or so.
[00:10:38] I got really sick.
[00:10:40] Like, I got sick in front of a bunch of people in school.
[00:10:45] And I was just really embarrassed by it.
[00:10:48] And I didn't want to get sick again.
[00:10:49] So I stopped eating a lot.
[00:10:51] So I was really thin.
[00:10:53] But besides that, and that went on for a long time.
[00:10:56] I would eat so much.
[00:10:58] So what grade was that?
[00:10:59] That's like second grade.
[00:11:00] So you got, you mean, when you say you got sick, you mean you threw up in front of a bunch of people?
[00:11:04] Yeah.
[00:11:05] We were doing like this play, like the lion, the witch, the wardrobe, so I left that.
[00:11:10] And I was just, I told the teacher, I'm like, I do not feel good.
[00:11:15] And she just let me sit there and, and then I was like, they put out a bucket in front of me.
[00:11:21] You know, this is New York.
[00:11:25] It's like, you know, late 70s, really ages.
[00:11:27] And then it came.
[00:11:29] I just started, you know, going out at right there and everyone in the class just scattered.
[00:11:34] And they were like, yeah, just like point that.
[00:11:37] And it was just like, I couldn't do anything.
[00:11:41] You know, it was like, I had no control.
[00:11:43] And the body was just doing whatever the thing.
[00:11:46] And I was, I just kind of, I just kind of,
[00:11:50] just kind of tone down my eating.
[00:11:53] And I would eat like just a piece of bread in the day.
[00:11:57] But I mean besides that, I was, you know, really bookish.
[00:12:02] Read a lot of comic books and cyclic pedos.
[00:12:06] I was just reading all the time.
[00:12:08] And pretty much like a pretty much a nerd, you know, I would walk around.
[00:12:12] And that was, that's why I was a target.
[00:12:14] And that kind of neighborhood, you definitely going to be a target.
[00:12:18] You know, I used to have, I used to carry this book in my pocket called Golden Guide.
[00:12:25] Golden Guide, Golden Guide.
[00:12:27] You can still find them.
[00:12:28] And I even bought the book because, you know, just for the style you say.
[00:12:31] But it's a little book of spiders of North America.
[00:12:36] So that, you know, Poverty's to call me Spider-Man.
[00:12:40] Because I would come up, you know, I'm like, this little kid like, oh, that's a
[00:12:44] Electrodec to smack tans and like, sand all these species names of these.
[00:12:48] Iraq is different types of author pods and people were like, this kid.
[00:12:52] And I would collect spiders and go down and get ants and put in the web.
[00:12:57] It was like, pretty twisted.
[00:12:58] I guess, I can back on it.
[00:13:01] But that's got to completely isolate you from like other kids,
[00:13:05] especially in the projects.
[00:13:07] Yeah, it's kind of weird, especially like my dad said, I was creepy.
[00:13:12] You know, do you think that like when you were sick and front of all those people
[00:13:19] and you kind of got called out, it's funny because we're sitting here laughing
[00:13:23] about that.
[00:13:24] But that kind of stuff leaves a mark on kids, right?
[00:13:28] Yeah.
[00:13:29] It leaves a mark on kids.
[00:13:30] Do you think that left a mark?
[00:13:32] Do you think that's what made you kind of become more into books
[00:13:36] because books couldn't laugh at you?
[00:13:38] No, I was into both before that but I think it made me more introverted.
[00:13:43] You know, because now the spotlight's on, but it's not for something good.
[00:13:49] And everyone's laughing and pointing and like a lot of people just really discussed it.
[00:13:54] It was, you know, really stands out in my mind.
[00:13:57] So then what was, it seems like you know, your reading books are kind of a nerd.
[00:14:03] What about like as you get older, as you get into high school, I mean, damn.
[00:14:07] You know, like I said, from me, especially in the 80s, you know, like going down to the city in the 80s,
[00:14:12] it was mayhem down there.
[00:14:14] It was total mayhem.
[00:14:16] Yeah.
[00:14:17] The drug dealers, the pimps, the prostitutes.
[00:14:22] Like I remember, we used to go out at night and you'd see like prostitutes at probably around
[00:14:29] 10 or 11 o'clock at night and they'd be out on the streets, you know, working.
[00:14:33] And then we'd come back at three or four o'clock in the morning.
[00:14:35] We'd go to see a hardcore show or whatever we'd come back later.
[00:14:38] And there'd be those girls.
[00:14:39] They'd be out there, you know, turning tricks.
[00:14:41] They'd be looking like they've been turning tricks all night.
[00:14:44] I mean, how does a, how does a kid that's reading about spiders get through that without getting dragged into it?
[00:14:52] Oh, I think one of the main reasons for my path in life was being the youngest in my family.
[00:14:58] I could see different mistakes.
[00:15:01] I'm not even going to say mistakes, but I'll say different choices.
[00:15:04] I'll say different choices that other people made and I'm like, hmm, maybe I'll go this way.
[00:15:09] I think when you're the youngest, you may want to look to be distinctive because you're,
[00:15:15] everyone's always telling you to do this, do this, do this, and you want to think for yourself.
[00:15:19] So I think maybe that's, that's a reason.
[00:15:21] Were you getting any guidance from your older siblings that were saying, hey, you might not want to do this,
[00:15:25] because the other thing, man.
[00:15:27] This is such a negative way to look at human nature, but so often you see people try and drag other people down.
[00:15:38] And I mean, this was in the seal teams.
[00:15:41] This is where I know it from in the seal teams where, you know, you have somebody that was trying to kind of move in the right direction and the other guys would kind of drag them back down.
[00:15:50] You know, like they wouldn't want people to succeed.
[00:15:53] And that's not a blanket statement, but I'm just saying it happens.
[00:15:58] And I could definitely see it happening within families where, you know, one sibling does start to do something well.
[00:16:04] And the other siblings kind of grab them and drag them back now.
[00:16:07] But I can also see siblings saying, don't make that mistake.
[00:16:10] Go in this direction.
[00:16:11] Did you see either one of those?
[00:16:12] Or was it more just your perception of what to do and what not to do?
[00:16:15] I would say my siblings, my brother and his sister always been really cool with me.
[00:16:20] You know, I'm kind of like, I feel really blessed in that sense.
[00:16:26] You know, they always stood me in the right direction.
[00:16:29] And the weird thing was around the neighborhood, you know, I was known as like little pigs.
[00:16:35] And my other brother was a similar age.
[00:16:37] You know, they were like, oh, you know, look out for those guys.
[00:16:40] So I mean, we were sometimes I'd be walking by the lobby in my building.
[00:16:45] And the guys, the drug dealers right there, I know the guy.
[00:16:48] There's up on that floor, you know, you just know he's so drugs.
[00:16:52] He does this thing.
[00:16:53] And hey, it's up a little here.
[00:16:54] You just walk right by it.
[00:16:55] You know, it was never like, I never really felt like I wanted to get involved in that stuff.
[00:17:01] So I didn't really have too much of an issue.
[00:17:04] But I could see all these things going on around.
[00:17:07] And this is like in the 80s in New York City, which is very different than it is now.
[00:17:12] I would say, you know, was definitely a welfare time.
[00:17:16] Or yeah, when the last time you were back in New York.
[00:17:19] Um, just this few months ago, I see my brother.
[00:17:24] So I go visit my brother and, you know, he still lives in Harlem.
[00:17:29] So I'll visit him, you know, pretty much when I'm coming back from overseas or something.
[00:17:34] I just stop over there.
[00:17:35] Yeah, New York is a completely and utterly different place now than it was in the 80s.
[00:17:40] Never mind the 70s.
[00:17:41] I wasn't everyone down there in the 70s, but in the 80s for sure.
[00:17:44] What about, um, you know, one of the things you used to tell us stories me.
[00:17:50] I mean, you and I would sit down and talk for a long time.
[00:17:52] We were going through training and you tell me stories about some of the characters in the projects.
[00:17:58] There was, I know there was a couple brothers that seem to have.
[00:18:02] They seem to be.
[00:18:04] They seem to have their own like world that you kind of brushed up into sometimes.
[00:18:10] It is, it was just like, the, I mean, I remember these stories, man.
[00:18:14] Give us a little hint of those guys.
[00:18:16] What was their deal?
[00:18:17] So these two brothers, Mark and James, they just, uh,
[00:18:21] I don't even know what started it.
[00:18:23] Just they just had it out for me.
[00:18:25] Mostly James.
[00:18:26] And, uh, these guys would, every time they would see me, you know,
[00:18:30] they were high on something and they would make the sound like,
[00:18:34] you know, and when I heard that, I was like, I, you know, I would start running.
[00:18:41] I'm, I'm guessing like looking back, they're seeing this kid with glasses on,
[00:18:45] looking at a spiderbook in the corner of a building.
[00:18:49] And they're just like, target.
[00:18:51] And, you know, that's, that's how it started.
[00:18:54] And this, I used to be in the corner just getting taken punches from these guys.
[00:18:59] And, uh, it started with them just saying, mmm, right?
[00:19:04] And, and that's how you know that they were coming for you.
[00:19:07] Yeah. And, and it was also kind of a signal.
[00:19:10] Because in the projects, you know, each building is kind of like its own entity.
[00:19:14] And like, maybe a guy and another building.
[00:19:17] It's like a single to, to that person.
[00:19:19] So you hear it like, oh, and then, when it just hits you to hear.
[00:19:24] Oh.
[00:19:25] So we're, so we're thinking, doing it.
[00:19:29] So the funny thing is this is fast forward a little bit, but, you know,
[00:19:33] what we're going through, seal trading.
[00:19:35] Jeff, you would do that like it.
[00:19:37] At moments of whatever, like, moments of chaos where they're trying to get us to quit,
[00:19:42] all of a sudden you'd hear, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm.
[00:19:46] So I, it, it just needs to be said though.
[00:19:51] I was, I told that story to someone.
[00:19:55] And that person just started saying it over and over and then it spread.
[00:20:01] So then everyone was saying it.
[00:20:03] So I wasn't like, you know, just randomly embudged like,
[00:20:06] ooh, you know, this is someone started and then it just spread.
[00:20:10] And then it's like, um, bud, STT to the teams.
[00:20:14] So, uh, so when you get to high school, is your attitude changes?
[00:20:20] Or attitude the same through high school, very different.
[00:20:23] What happened in high school?
[00:20:24] So when I was 12, um, my dad was a football coach.
[00:20:29] You know, I was doing like pop water football.
[00:20:32] And I was one of the worst on the team for sure.
[00:20:36] And, uh, you know, my dad was always trying to encourage me, you know,
[00:20:39] you got to try different things, so try football, try this, try that.
[00:20:43] And, uh, you know, my dad, one day I came home and, um, he was blown as
[00:20:49] his nose and when he pulled the tissue away, it was just blood everywhere.
[00:20:55] And like, you could see like chunks and stuff like like didn't look right at all.
[00:21:00] Like he knew someone was wrong.
[00:21:02] And he was like, yeah, you know, I got a bad flu.
[00:21:05] And we didn't really think anything of it.
[00:21:07] And then finally, you know, I guess he went to the doctor and then found out that he had leukemia.
[00:21:13] So that was in November.
[00:21:16] And it just got progressively worse.
[00:21:19] So this is um, 83, 83 and then he ended up, um, you know, going in hospital to get chemotherapy back then was way more harsh.
[00:21:28] And so, you know, from like November to like where he died and, uh, January 4th.
[00:21:37] And so it was just only a couple months of this.
[00:21:40] But you know, after school, I would come, uh,
[00:21:44] I would just walk to this hospital that he was in.
[00:21:47] It was on the way back home from the school.
[00:21:49] And just watch, I would just watch my dad go from someone really big and strong and just watch him just,
[00:21:55] just, you know, going through this treatment.
[00:21:58] So between the leukemia, the chemotherapy, then he got pneumonia from the, um,
[00:22:05] just being sitting in the bed and uh, hepatitis from blood transfusion.
[00:22:11] You know, it's just a whole bunch of things happen and then, uh, you know, he died.
[00:22:18] So you said that that things changed.
[00:22:21] Did that change?
[00:22:22] You're outlook on things.
[00:22:24] Did you, did you start to look at the world in a totally different way now?
[00:22:28] Yeah, I would say, you know, everyone has that, um,
[00:22:32] pivotal point in their life where like, I guess you can say like,
[00:22:35] in a sense, it's lost like it's not like, you know, a fairy tale and like,
[00:22:39] you know, I basically, death was introduced really quickly, you know, early on in my life.
[00:22:45] And I just saw it.
[00:22:47] And, um, that changed me because I became even more introverted.
[00:22:53] More introverted.
[00:22:54] Yeah.
[00:22:55] So I would have maybe a friend or a two at school, but, you know,
[00:22:59] I would just be into my own, my own world pretty much.
[00:23:04] And did, uh, that where you, where were you living now?
[00:23:08] I was still in West Brighton, uh, projects, visiting my mom back and forth.
[00:23:14] Was your older siblings taking care of you or so that's where it gets a little, you know,
[00:23:19] for my family, Dicey, but essentially out of step mom at that point,
[00:23:23] and I was going between my step mom and my mom's on the weekends.
[00:23:29] And then, you know, getting involved in the, you know, right after your father passed away
[00:23:34] and you're going into courts and all these, during these rooms with these people,
[00:23:38] doing psychological e-vows, you know, you okay?
[00:23:41] And who do you want to stay with now, your, your, your step mom, your mom?
[00:23:46] And, uh, you know, it's just really confusing to me.
[00:23:50] And, uh, just kind of overwhelmed the kind of like, in a sense, check out.
[00:23:55] So, um, yeah, that's what happened.
[00:23:58] So are you, are you still participating in school?
[00:24:01] Like actively like, okay, I'm, I'm going to graduate.
[00:24:04] Did you have some kind of plan? Are you, are you studying at night?
[00:24:07] Anything like that?
[00:24:09] Um, I'm not, uh, one thing about my school work,
[00:24:13] I'm not like the best student, like going to school and, you know, getting grades and stuff like that.
[00:24:20] More, I just been following my interest.
[00:24:22] Now, in the, the, the, the, the classes that I was interested in, I always did really well.
[00:24:26] Other classes, I mean, I didn't even care about the class.
[00:24:30] You know, but I thought I was, I wouldn't say I was like studying, but I would just follow my interest.
[00:24:35] So your dad died when you were 12.
[00:24:38] So you must have been in like 8th grade, 7th grade?
[00:24:42] Well, grade is that.
[00:24:43] Yeah, 7th grade.
[00:24:44] 7th grade.
[00:24:45] So that was really pivotal because, you know, you could take it out of school because your dad died.
[00:24:50] And then, when you go back to school in the 7th grade, you were at the kid who is dad died.
[00:24:58] You know what I mean?
[00:25:00] And, you know, and you know it, and you know everybody else knows it and you just kind of like, you know, to yourself more.
[00:25:06] So I had some good friends like I used to, I was into like, I had some nerd friends, you know, like,
[00:25:12] Dungeons and Dragons, that kind of stuff.
[00:25:15] You know, so I would kind of hang out with them, but it was only, you know, on break set school or something like that.
[00:25:21] There was a deal with like, what would you do the rest of the day?
[00:25:24] What would you do in the afternoon?
[00:25:25] What would you do in the evening?
[00:25:26] What would you do on the weekends?
[00:25:27] Come home like that age after school, come home, watch like, was it thundercats?
[00:25:34] Well, yeah.
[00:25:35] Picks.
[00:25:36] You remember that, remember that that, um, you had to go pick picks picks like that.
[00:25:41] What was that?
[00:25:42] It was something that you had to win these primes.
[00:25:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:25:47] That you had to phone in, right?
[00:25:48] Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:49] Someone had to phone in and call for fire by saying picks picks.
[00:25:53] Yeah.
[00:25:54] On the local TV station.
[00:25:55] Yeah, yeah.
[00:25:56] Yeah, I do remember that.
[00:25:57] Dang.
[00:25:58] So yeah.
[00:25:59] I don't think that was, that was, that was, you didn't have that echo, didn't you?
[00:26:03] Yeah, that's the echo.
[00:26:04] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:26:05] Because you, I think you might be younger.
[00:26:06] Yeah.
[00:26:07] But I also, I don't think they had, that was like a local TV thing.
[00:26:10] Yeah.
[00:26:11] They had like a little echo, they had like a little call for fire.
[00:26:13] So you'd be on the phone.
[00:26:14] You'd have to call in while you watching TV.
[00:26:16] Yeah, and then it was like a video game of some kind where you had to drop bombs or shoot something.
[00:26:21] But at a certain time as it was moving.
[00:26:23] So when it moved, you'd say picks, picks, picks, picks.
[00:26:25] And that was like the fire.
[00:26:27] Yeah, which was like maybe the, maybe the channel, like on TV and how it's like WLBN, whatever this was WP IX or something.
[00:26:36] Yeah, just a picks, picks, picks.
[00:26:38] It's a bit of a win.
[00:26:39] But I don't know where.
[00:26:40] So now I know who he's trying to call later.
[00:26:43] Yeah, it was a chance.
[00:26:44] Yeah.
[00:26:45] Well, that was the other funny thing about Mark and James is they'd see you.
[00:26:49] And I remember, that's why, that's why to this day whenever I see you, I go, yeah.
[00:26:53] Yeah, that's right.
[00:26:54] Because they'd see you and they'd call you out.
[00:26:56] Yeah.
[00:26:56] Did you ever reconcile some kind of relationship with those guys?
[00:27:00] No, because those guys are more like, you know, cool guys in a sense.
[00:27:06] You know, they were popular people and I wasn't there.
[00:27:10] It was just really no connection.
[00:27:12] You know, and it was really weird because in the projects, the atmosphere, you know, it's like R&B, Jazz, hip-hop.
[00:27:20] But James was like, into metal.
[00:27:23] Him, they were like, maybe like, just a fraction of people in there that that went into metal.
[00:27:29] He was into metal.
[00:27:30] He'd have iron made and churred so on and all that stuff and just become an act.
[00:27:35] Yeah.
[00:27:36] Oh.
[00:27:37] Oh.
[00:27:38] Oh.
[00:27:39] Oh.
[00:27:40] Oh.
[00:27:41] Oh.
[00:27:42] Oh.
[00:27:43] And he'd give me the corner and just he'd start punching away and then ask me, do you want the medicine
[00:27:50] or the treatment?
[00:27:51] And both were the same thing.
[00:27:53] Just a little bit more of me.
[00:27:55] Uh, yeah, I remember you tell me you'd like to be, you'd think you have, you think you would have made it.
[00:28:02] Pass them or whatever and you'd be going up the stairs and all of a sudden you'd hear,
[00:28:07] GFRIEND.
[00:28:10] And there was another one you told me about something like you were walking.
[00:28:14] It was dark and you were walking, you were walking down the stairs.
[00:28:18] And as you came down the stairs, one of them, whichever one it was, little match.
[00:28:23] Okay.
[00:28:24] Yeah.
[00:28:25] So that was James too and essentially, you know, every now and then you get blackouts, you know, in the city.
[00:28:33] And then we had this big blackout back then.
[00:28:36] And that's a problem because now the elevator might not be working.
[00:28:41] So if you live on the eighth floor, you have to walk up.
[00:28:45] And there's some elderly people that live like seventh eighth floor.
[00:28:49] And so we're like, you know, hey, you know, get a knife.
[00:28:52] And you could make $1 or two walking people upstairs.
[00:28:57] And so, you know, I was walking people.
[00:29:00] I walked maybe one or two people upstairs.
[00:29:02] And then I was coming downstairs and all of a sudden, you took out magic.
[00:29:11] And he just lit a match and it was James and then more punishment.
[00:29:18] It's about magic.
[00:29:22] Wonder.
[00:29:24] Yeah.
[00:29:25] Take your breath away.
[00:29:28] This is a Broadway play.
[00:29:30] Okay.
[00:29:31] That was going on at that time.
[00:29:32] Okay.
[00:29:33] That part I never knew.
[00:29:34] All I ever knew, all I remembered from Buds was it's about magic, wonder.
[00:29:38] I never heard, I thought it was just what those guys made up.
[00:29:41] This is, yeah, just psychonists.
[00:29:46] So these guys never, you never reckons out with these guys.
[00:29:50] There's no story of revenge where you went back.
[00:29:54] Not really.
[00:29:56] You know, I was, and I, you know, looking back right now.
[00:29:59] I wouldn't even, you know, I don't really have anything for those guys.
[00:30:04] I wish everybody the best, so, you know, all it's those past.
[00:30:08] What music were you listening to?
[00:30:10] Back then, I only listened to what was there.
[00:30:14] So it was like a lot of rap music, you know, R&B, you know, just neighborhood music.
[00:30:22] And I got introduced to other forms in music by first I played saxophone as a kid.
[00:30:30] So I played saxophone for like four years.
[00:30:34] So I was like gotten involved with like orchestra.
[00:30:36] Like I would, my dad set me up for a summer program.
[00:30:40] Now I'd go and play in a symphonic orchestra over the summer.
[00:30:45] So I'd take out a bus, you know, and, you know,
[00:30:49] take my saxophone along.
[00:30:51] It was pretty cool.
[00:30:52] That.
[00:30:53] And also my dad, like jazz.
[00:30:55] So that was also another influence on us.
[00:30:59] And then, you know, it's on, you know, my musical taste.
[00:31:02] And then, um, the kids, some of the kids I played Dungeons & Dragons with.
[00:31:06] There were some groups like one group was like the Brewster Street.
[00:31:10] Crew of those guys.
[00:31:11] And then there was another group.
[00:31:13] And these guys, they were all into like metal and stuff.
[00:31:16] Because when you go to, you know, the schools over there are kind of like,
[00:31:20] zoned.
[00:31:21] So they have people from different neighborhoods coming to the schools.
[00:31:24] So these, these were, um,
[00:31:27] these kids were not from the projects.
[00:31:29] And they listened to metal.
[00:31:30] And like when we were played Dungeons & Dragons, that music was there.
[00:31:34] And I was like, it just became normal.
[00:31:36] So I was like, you know, and also I wanted to,
[00:31:38] I always wanted to try different things, you know, and see, you know,
[00:31:41] what's that like?
[00:31:42] So I was kind of exploring.
[00:31:44] And, um, so I started listening to, you know, any kind of music.
[00:31:48] I wanted to listen to.
[00:31:50] If I was interested in it, I'd check it out.
[00:31:53] Now, at what point did you start thinking about the military as an option?
[00:31:58] Okay, um, after my father passed away, there was, um, my father's good friend.
[00:32:05] This guy James Harrison, Mr. Jim, he used to call him.
[00:32:10] He was, um, his son came back from the Navy. He was a regular guy in the Navy.
[00:32:17] And, um, he told me about the seals.
[00:32:21] Because I think I'd seen at this point I'd seen first blood.
[00:32:25] And I was like, I'm kind of, you know, I started finding out about the different military units.
[00:32:31] And so I'm like, my original plan was to go and go and the, go on the Rangers,
[00:32:36] then become a green beret.
[00:32:38] And then I heard about forest recon.
[00:32:41] Then I'm going to go on the Reins and become forest recon.
[00:32:44] And then once I heard about seals, go on the seals and become a seal.
[00:32:48] Like, I wanted to be all the special forces.
[00:32:52] But this, you know, um,
[00:32:55] and Jamie has sung that guy really changed my life because he told me about the seals.
[00:33:02] And I was like, well, you know, the Navy, where they speedboat drivers.
[00:33:06] I couldn't think of what in the Navy could be spec ops.
[00:33:10] And then he started telling me about it.
[00:33:12] And I was like, man, that's like, I need to find out more about it.
[00:33:16] And so I went to the recruiter.
[00:33:19] And at this point, you know, I'm like, you know, midteens.
[00:33:22] And I asked the recruiter about the seals.
[00:33:25] And he said, don't even think about it because you'll never make it.
[00:33:29] And that was like, that's when I was like, you, you, you, you, you.
[00:33:33] And then I started like really focusing on trying to get into seal team.
[00:33:38] So Mr. Jim was along with my father, they were teach boxing to like the kids,
[00:33:44] like troubled youth and stuff that these areas, um, you know,
[00:33:48] they had a heavy bag.
[00:33:49] And my dad was a boxer.
[00:33:52] And, um, yeah, Mr. Jim started training me.
[00:33:56] I said, I wanted to go into seals.
[00:33:58] And, um, he's like, hey, you know, if you want to get into condition,
[00:34:03] meet me down here on the park bench at four o'clock.
[00:34:08] And it's like mid winter in New York snow and stuff like that.
[00:34:12] And he's like, if you're not here at four.
[00:34:15] Well, I'm a dot.
[00:34:16] I know you're not serious.
[00:34:18] You know, we don't have to talk about it again.
[00:34:20] And I'm like, all right.
[00:34:22] And, you know, that was the first time ever, like woke up early, like,
[00:34:26] That was four o'clock in the morning.
[00:34:28] Yeah.
[00:34:29] Oh, he's in a good test.
[00:34:31] I got out there.
[00:34:32] That's what I would have failed.
[00:34:33] Ha ha ha.
[00:34:34] Ha ha ha.
[00:34:36] How you before?
[00:34:37] Yeah.
[00:34:38] I was like, you know, I was like, I got out of it.
[00:34:42] 159.
[00:34:43] Problem.
[00:34:44] Mr. Jim, yeah, he started training me and it was like,
[00:34:46] push ups, dips on the park bench and like, when you go into the buildings,
[00:34:51] it was bright in at least this kind of like this overhang.
[00:34:54] Do you want to pull up on that?
[00:34:56] And it's like, you know, if you're going to be a fighter,
[00:34:59] you need to keep your hands up.
[00:35:00] That's the first rule of fighting.
[00:35:02] So, you know, when we go out, there was this field across the way.
[00:35:07] He'd have been running laps around the football field with bricks in my hands.
[00:35:12] And the goal was learn how to keep your hands up.
[00:35:16] And, you know, the first few weeks is bricks.
[00:35:19] You know, I'd meet him like two to three times a week doing this.
[00:35:22] And then, um, graduated to like, you know, milk jugs,
[00:35:26] poor water and then the milk's joss on the ground as you run around.
[00:35:30] You know, and he really just, he just really instilled in me,
[00:35:33] you know, like, you have to train.
[00:35:35] You know, if you want to get something, you're going to have to work for it.
[00:35:39] So I work with him.
[00:35:41] And then at a certain point, um, I was 17 at the time.
[00:35:48] And, um, I just chose to go live with my mom.
[00:35:53] Because I was like, you know, I, um, just really curious,
[00:35:57] you know, there were a lot of things in my mind that, you know,
[00:36:01] that I didn't really know my mom, like, I think I should, like,
[00:36:05] should have.
[00:36:06] And, um, so I wanted to know more about that side of my family.
[00:36:09] So I went and, um, moved with my mom and she wanted me out of the projects.
[00:36:16] And so we moved down to Florida, Daytona Beach.
[00:36:20] So my senior year of high school was in Daytona Beach, Florida.
[00:36:24] So it was a weird thing because, um, my high school,
[00:36:28] the first year high school I went to Arne Design in Manhattan.
[00:36:32] So I had to take a bus about in a train,
[00:36:36] two and from school every day.
[00:36:40] So I took the three bus down the ferry,
[00:36:42] take the stand on ferry across,
[00:36:45] take the four of the five up to 50 cents,
[00:36:48] and lesson 10, go to school.
[00:36:50] And, you know, I was always drawing and stuff like that.
[00:36:54] So, oh, my God, into this art school.
[00:36:56] I went there for a year, but it, um,
[00:36:59] I didn't do well.
[00:37:00] I was coming in late and, uh, it just wasn't a good fit.
[00:37:05] And I ended up leaving that school and then I went to my zone school,
[00:37:09] uh, Susan Wagner for two years.
[00:37:12] So 10th and 11th.
[00:37:14] And then, one with my mom and, uh,
[00:37:18] moved down to Daytona Beach.
[00:37:19] And I went to Seabreeze, senior high school in Daytona Beach.
[00:37:24] And I went there for my senior year.
[00:37:26] And when I was there,
[00:37:28] that's when I have listed on the, uh,
[00:37:30] delayed entry program and got into the Navy.
[00:37:34] Did you play any sports at any of these schools?
[00:37:36] No.
[00:37:37] Did you, it's weird how you had that.
[00:37:41] It makes me think it runs deeper than I've even fought before.
[00:37:46] Like the idea of when you saw Rambo,
[00:37:50] you're like, you can identify with it.
[00:37:52] Even though you were a nerd playing Dungeons and Dragons and looking at
[00:37:56] Spiderbooks, you see Rambo, you're like, oh, okay, cool.
[00:37:59] That's what I'm going to do.
[00:38:01] That's a deep-seated thing, man.
[00:38:03] I think looking back on it,
[00:38:07] James had a lot to do with it.
[00:38:09] Mark and James, because like getting beat up like that.
[00:38:13] At a certain point, you just like, you know,
[00:38:15] you've had enough.
[00:38:17] And then you kind of, I think in a sense,
[00:38:20] you know, can overcompensate.
[00:38:22] So I started learning about martial art
[00:38:25] and other really big part of, you know,
[00:38:28] my story is, uh, my oldest brother was,
[00:38:33] you know, we had a big family incident.
[00:38:37] He was outside and a guy in, uh,
[00:38:40] there's West Brown projects and right near it is Mark and Holmes.
[00:38:44] It's another pretty rough area.
[00:38:47] And brother was there in this guy, uh,
[00:38:51] stabbed him with a buck,
[00:38:54] double of seven knife.
[00:38:56] That's a big blade to the hilt.
[00:38:59] And you know, his heart was,
[00:39:02] was beating, you know, moving the knife,
[00:39:05] you know, punctured as long.
[00:39:07] And he was in the hospital for a while.
[00:39:09] And he got out, you know,
[00:39:11] you know, doctors saved his life and all.
[00:39:13] He's got a really big scar on his chest,
[00:39:16] I mean, I think he got into Kung Fu from that,
[00:39:20] I would say.
[00:39:22] And, um, you know, he went all the way to being an instructor in that.
[00:39:27] But, you know, he would show me, you know,
[00:39:29] occasionally on a weekend sometimes I would go with him
[00:39:32] and train in, you know,
[00:39:34] hungar Kung Fu.
[00:39:36] And I was never really, you know,
[00:39:38] I've never really got good at it.
[00:39:39] But it didn't still mean, you know,
[00:39:41] martial arts or something you want to learn.
[00:39:43] And so, um,
[00:39:45] you know, I had those things going for me.
[00:39:48] And I think between learning a little bit about martial arts
[00:39:51] and, you know, the beatings I was taking out of certain points,
[00:39:54] I was like, you know, I can change it if I want.
[00:39:58] So, my thing was to become a seal.
[00:40:01] I thought that would be my answer.
[00:40:04] So, that's where I went.
[00:40:06] So, you get to Florida.
[00:40:08] What was it like going to school in Florida?
[00:40:09] I mean, sea breeze,
[00:40:11] the high school sounds, it sounds nice.
[00:40:14] But what was it?
[00:40:15] I mean, was it nicer?
[00:40:17] Was it a dumpper?
[00:40:18] Yeah, it was pretty cool.
[00:40:20] It was, uh,
[00:40:22] definitely more laid back than a being in New York.
[00:40:25] Uh, I remember distinctly at that time.
[00:40:28] Ted Bundy was in that area and the Chaplain at our school
[00:40:32] was, I think, associated with Ted Bundy.
[00:40:35] And I just remember he was getting the electric chair in.
[00:40:38] And everyone in the school was like,
[00:40:40] make sure you keep all your life.
[00:40:43] You keep all your electrical components,
[00:40:45] the flow.
[00:40:46] So, they have enough juice to find this.
[00:40:48] You talked to, when you talked to the recruiter,
[00:40:52] uh, so you had to talk to a recruiter again in Florida.
[00:40:55] Right?
[00:40:56] You obviously had a chain recruit.
[00:40:57] What the recruiter said to you.
[00:40:59] The recruiters were all about getting as many people in his
[00:41:01] post.
[00:41:02] You want to go see those?
[00:41:03] You're like, come over here.
[00:41:04] And you look like I'm being a great candidate.
[00:41:05] Yeah.
[00:41:06] That's why I'm surprised the first guy told you,
[00:41:08] he didn't think you were going to make it.
[00:41:09] Although JP to know,
[00:41:10] they laughed at him.
[00:41:11] Yeah.
[00:41:12] And maybe that's a good test.
[00:41:13] And Dakota Meyer, the guy said to him for the Marine Corps said,
[00:41:17] you, we don't have what it takes anyways.
[00:41:19] And Dakota Meyer signed up the next day or whatever.
[00:41:22] Right?
[00:41:22] That's a good.
[00:41:23] It's a little reverse psychology.
[00:41:25] But they told you, oh, yeah,
[00:41:27] you look like you have great candidate for the Seal teams.
[00:41:29] They're waiting for you.
[00:41:30] Yeah, we have the, the Diferra program.
[00:41:34] And the Diferra program,
[00:41:36] I don't, they probably have something similar today,
[00:41:38] but you and Lits for six years.
[00:41:41] Six years.
[00:41:42] And if you make it through,
[00:41:44] but training and your,
[00:41:46] Seal training,
[00:41:47] then you on Seal team.
[00:41:49] If you don't make it,
[00:41:50] you're still in the Navy for six years.
[00:41:53] That's, that's what I,
[00:41:55] I did the Diferra program too.
[00:41:59] And it's funny too because when you talk,
[00:42:01] when it seemed like six years,
[00:42:03] it's, well, that's like an eight or a,
[00:42:05] sorry, a third of your life at the time, right?
[00:42:07] Because you're 18 years old and you're saying,
[00:42:09] I'm signing on this thing for six years.
[00:42:12] And you and me, I don't know about you.
[00:42:14] I'm pretty sure you're probably the same way.
[00:42:16] I had no idea whatsoever what the daily life of a Seal was.
[00:42:21] As far as I'm concerned,
[00:42:22] it would work, I was like, well,
[00:42:23] it's got to be pretty similar to John J. Rambles.
[00:42:25] Right.
[00:42:26] Yeah, it's going to be something like that.
[00:42:27] We're going to be out just hunting people down and killing them.
[00:42:29] That's what's going to be happening.
[00:42:30] Six years, cool, sign me up.
[00:42:32] You have no idea what you're getting into,
[00:42:34] which is kind of cool.
[00:42:36] Because I can just about guarantee that anybody that had an,
[00:42:41] anybody that thought about what they were getting into,
[00:42:44] you thought it was going to be way more extreme than anything.
[00:42:48] Oh, that you could have, that it actually was.
[00:42:51] I mean, I remember the stories of,
[00:42:54] yeah, when you're in Seal training,
[00:42:56] they bury you up, up to your neck in the sand,
[00:42:59] and let the tide come in and drown you.
[00:43:02] And then they resuscitate you.
[00:43:04] And then ask you if you want to quit.
[00:43:06] And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's the program.
[00:43:08] That's it.
[00:43:09] I mean, you know what?
[00:43:11] I remember is a guy that ended up,
[00:43:13] he was actually ended up in a class behind us,
[00:43:15] but I went through boot camp with him.
[00:43:17] And he was a smart guy.
[00:43:18] I went to college, great guy.
[00:43:20] And he's telling me he goes, yeah,
[00:43:23] Seals have 50% casualty rate.
[00:43:26] Like no one makes their retirement.
[00:43:29] This is 19, maybe,
[00:43:32] I mean, I guess the goal for is about to happen,
[00:43:35] but there hadn't been a war in a long time.
[00:43:37] And I think it came originally from World War II
[00:43:40] when like at Normandy,
[00:43:42] the UDT's took heavy,
[00:43:44] they took like a 50% casualty rate.
[00:43:46] But I thought that's just how I thought I was going in.
[00:43:48] I'm signing up and I'm going to get killed or wounded.
[00:43:51] And I'm probably not going to make it 20 years, whatever.
[00:43:54] Same attitude.
[00:43:55] Oh, yeah, you definitely heard that they drowned you.
[00:43:58] You definitely heard that they drowned you.
[00:44:00] And training, you're going to get drowned it.
[00:44:02] People are going to drown you.
[00:44:04] That's what's going to happen.
[00:44:05] And you're like, yeah, that's what I want.
[00:44:07] Which is pretty crazy, right?
[00:44:08] Yeah.
[00:44:09] It seems like even that's a good kind of screening process.
[00:44:12] An initial screening process.
[00:44:14] And a crazy thing is so many people still quit.
[00:44:17] That's what's crazy.
[00:44:18] You know what you're signing up for.
[00:44:20] You know what you're signing up for.
[00:44:22] At least you have someone.
[00:44:23] You're signing up to die.
[00:44:25] I mean, I can say, I was signing up to die.
[00:44:27] Like in my mind, I was like, okay,
[00:44:29] when I signed this paper, you know, my life is no longer.
[00:44:32] Is no longer a promise.
[00:44:34] It's no longer even a thing.
[00:44:36] Yeah.
[00:44:37] You, I mean, you are an adult, even though a very young adult.
[00:44:40] But you understand what you get into.
[00:44:42] And, you know, the chances of getting killed or hurt really badly
[00:44:46] or, you know, can happen.
[00:44:49] Anything else from childhood before we jump and up?
[00:44:53] Before we get the, the, the, the, the, the, the boot camp.
[00:44:57] And I was just thinking,
[00:45:02] Ludwon is wrongly stupid.
[00:45:03] Even if it's not racist,
[00:45:09] you know, it may be that I didn't follow up with this thing from me here.
[00:45:12] Thank you very much.
[00:45:13] 病 and
[00:45:15] cleaned personal business,
[00:45:16] well, I'm out for writing about larry blood and attorney.
[00:45:17] You know, that was basically what,
[00:45:20] to make sure you start breakfast and donít have the wrong Te State staff,
[00:45:24] So this is this tropical storm coming in and I'm you know keeping my
[00:45:31] I'm coming from the projects in the New York City so swimming is not I'm not a good swimmer
[00:45:36] and I'm like well the best way to learn you know is to go tropical storm
[00:45:42] baby I just remember getting out and looking at the beach and just seeing the water
[00:45:49] like frothy and stuff and I was just like let's go for it and I just ran in
[00:45:55] and basically I was a drowning victim this guy came out from me I had a water
[00:46:00] started on at me and stuff like that so then I came home and like you know I
[00:46:06] told my my hair wanted to take swim lessons so then the only place we could
[00:46:12] find was the YWCA and this this I think she was like maybe a college student you
[00:46:21] know I just would see this girl's writing notes and stuff on the side of the
[00:46:24] textbook but she was the guard there and she taught me how to swim so I learned
[00:46:30] the side stroke like basic side stroke not a combat swimmer stroke and a
[00:46:34] breast stroke crawl you know like the technique of it and while I was doing
[00:46:39] I I got books on swimming workouts how to swim how to you know get more
[00:46:47] hydrodynamic this kind of thing how much swimming did you do in the
[00:46:52] projects not really any I mean like in the summer there's a pool right near it
[00:46:58] the pool is three feet and then they have a little baby pool so that was another
[00:47:03] thing about walking change when when I would go to the pool I mean I mean
[00:47:08] on several occasions I mean James if you're out there listening you
[00:47:13] almost killed me a couple of times and I'm like kidney he would you know there's
[00:47:17] like a ladder you can walk out he would get me under there and stand on me
[00:47:22] and hold me there like trying to drown me and the worst feeling I ever had was
[00:47:27] like just you know I'm in the water and like I'm bouncing like bobbing because
[00:47:32] it's too deep and I just hear and I look over and I see him on the side
[00:47:38] Jeffrey come for you and then you jump in and come after you know trying to get
[00:47:43] out you know trying to hop away and then I look over and then it's Mark and then
[00:47:49] you know I would you know the life guards would you know have to get these
[00:47:53] guys away from me so yeah I was not a the swimming extent was like close
[00:48:00] your eyes windmill until you can't hold your breath anymore and then stand and
[00:48:05] hopefully there's a bottom to stand on it how did you do how did you not get
[00:48:12] freaking discouraged after you almost drown and you don't know how to swim and
[00:48:17] you must be at least seeing that the seal test is what do we have to swim 500
[00:48:22] meters 500 yards to like go to buds yeah how did you not say maybe I need to
[00:48:27] look at the Rangers or maybe I need to look at this special forces or something
[00:48:31] I was just really bent on the seals and that was just dumb that was the
[00:48:36] one back then like now there's a lot of information on seal team but back then
[00:48:41] you couldn't find anything and I remember you there were these books like I
[00:48:44] get like the Ranger book and then you'd open it up and you'd see like they had
[00:48:48] Green Berets seals force recon and then you look like when you try to find the
[00:48:54] seal book no one had it and it was like the mystery it's all I was like you
[00:48:59] think I want to I want to go with that one so you how long you're in the
[00:49:03] delayed entry program for let's see I graduated high school like that spring
[00:49:11] time and I was in the Navy in August 15 okay so it's pretty quick yeah I went
[00:49:16] in pretty much right after high school so that that have like maybe a two-month
[00:49:21] period of really swimming that's what I was working on and you know I was doing
[00:49:26] push ups and finding like the screening test so working on pull ups and
[00:49:30] sit ups you know all the basics you need for budge running then you
[00:49:36] you shipped off the Giora bootcamp in Orlando right Orlando yeah how was that a
[00:49:40] shock to your system I think the main shock was just the first like wake-up
[00:49:48] but then after that you know I was pretty smooth it wasn't really that big of
[00:49:53] deal I was in a Duke bootcamp so I was in the new bootcamp and it was like
[00:50:00] myself and this other guy's name was Justice we were both gone to the seals and so
[00:50:05] we were like oh those are the seal guys you know over there we did we you know in
[00:50:09] bootcamp my swim was still not qualifying so they were like hey if you
[00:50:17] seriously about this program you get up at 330 go over there to the pool and do
[00:50:24] your laps before you know the regular day of bootcamp starts so I was like I did that
[00:50:30] throughout bootcamp and really improved my swimming and there was you know they had
[00:50:36] seal motivators working there and there was a seal Vietnam that you know
[00:50:42] rough dude there and he was he would kind of you know oversee this one he would
[00:50:49] watch me and stuff and he would be saying stuff like you'll never make it with that kind
[00:50:53] of trouble you'll just never make it and I had I had an issue with him because you know
[00:51:02] I I I had my swim was like just on the edge I filled so I knew I could pass that
[00:51:09] you just needed to be faster push ups through good sit ups but my pull ups were like on the edge too
[00:51:16] and so I remember like getting I got seven and then I got eight was like right here and
[00:51:23] he just counted seven and I tried again and you know I'd pull ups once you failed you're not going
[00:51:32] to come and I just stayed on the bar and he said all right recruit jump off the bar and I
[00:51:39] yelled out say you don't quit and he just he just laid into me screaming and stuff so I jumped off
[00:51:48] the bar and then I knew I had to work on the pull ups so I had a gym there and what I did was
[00:51:55] um so that was during bootcamp all this happened yeah I don't remember if I take a
[00:51:59] screening test one time yeah I took it while I think like two two three times so then the
[00:52:07] because if you don't make it for boards you know there was you kind of okay now you can go
[00:52:13] diver or EOD so I ended up working on pull down machine and that's how I got my pull ups
[00:52:21] so then by actually by the by the end of bootcamp I passed the tests and ended up you know with
[00:52:30] orders what so then you get to boards do you remember checking into the boards yeah that's another thing
[00:52:37] so when I was in bootcamp and I get to you have back then you had to go through your source
[00:52:45] rating so I was an engineman so I had to go to great lakes and go through engineman A school this is
[00:52:52] like the trade that you're gonna get if you don't make it through a sealed training you're gonna
[00:52:56] work in the job in the regular navy and so I went um to great lakes and went through E and A school
[00:53:03] and my vision didn't qualify for boards so this is kind of like gonna maybe put me in an
[00:53:11] hour with some people but essentially I ended up passing the vision test through some the
[00:53:22] various methods how did you do it so essentially what happens was I had orders to EOD training
[00:53:32] because your vision wasn't good enough right for boards so everything well it was good enough
[00:53:36] but my vision you know I you know glasses so one of the one of the guys there that worked in
[00:53:44] one of the dive motivators Steve Collins that another really pivotal person in my life he was like
[00:53:51] hey man if you really interested in going the sealed training you know we can work on switching your orders
[00:53:59] and you'll have to work as you know for us as you know the dive motivator check I was like yeah of course
[00:54:08] and so I did it and I had to wait like it was like months like I'm gonna say like at least six
[00:54:16] months and I worked for these um dive motivators to study studying for your vision test
[00:54:25] and here's the deal they have a medical was right near it and the vision test they have to take
[00:54:32] is right there on the wall so every day I'm just looking at it and memorizing all of the you know
[00:54:39] the letters and numbers and um I ended up passing the test so you that's awesome and this whole
[00:54:52] time you're obviously working out and getting in shape and these guys are telling you what to
[00:54:55] do what to be prepared for all that stuff yeah that was another big deal like George White
[00:55:00] Steve Collins um struck the Roberts these guys really made a difference because they were like hey
[00:55:08] you know they weren't like you know show me everything but they were like you have to do this this
[00:55:12] is gonna help you you need to run you need to do this and that and what was really bad was at a certain
[00:55:18] point you know team guys working that dive motivator check they don't want to do it and so they're
[00:55:24] like pigs he's a blown gold so duty duty duty trunks so I'm looking like a seal right I got the
[00:55:32] blown gold duty trunks and the the um boots on and everything and the dive socks and then like you're
[00:55:38] gonna give the test so for six months I'm working at the dive motivators and never like
[00:55:48] having to be a seal yeah yeah pretty much they like hey you know um pigs what's it like it's
[00:55:57] a little team and like let's not talk about that well you have to worry about is getting through
[00:56:02] the screen test so I was run the they would do the runs they would do the push ups all the stuff
[00:56:09] I would test them and just record it and six months of that and then when I get the buds
[00:56:16] you got like dozens and dozens of guys you're like hey that's the dive motivator guy I'm just like
[00:56:28] all right so you check in the buds I don't you know what's weird it's I don't really remember
[00:56:32] you know some people have really good check it in the bud stories or whatever like they check in
[00:56:37] and they get immediately told to hit the surf in their dress whites or whatever for whatever reason
[00:56:41] man I don't really even remember checking in the buds I think it was a weekend I think no one cared
[00:56:46] you know and I was the biggest thing for me as I was kind of surprised you know I expected
[00:56:50] to walk through the quarter deck and just get ripped apart and start becoming a different you know
[00:56:57] you know like the James Bond movie echo Charles you know where the door opens and there's people
[00:57:02] training and they're doing judo and their shoot guns I was what was happening but instead I opened
[00:57:08] up the door and there's like two new two other guys that are going through training and they're
[00:57:13] sitting there all scared looking and there's no one around and I said I'm checking into buds and they're
[00:57:17] like okay now you can assign this and then you come back on Monday and I'll kind of let down
[00:57:22] it's very anti-climactic some people get a much better out of the did you was anything cool for you
[00:57:27] yeah I think my show up on the quarter deck and someone was getting hammered there because I showed
[00:57:32] up during the day and guys were getting hammered and yelled that and your structure just look at me
[00:57:38] and like you know here and like yeah and they're just like good what we see and yeah you know
[00:57:44] and just walk off you know and I'm like already like oh yeah so how long did it take for you to
[00:57:49] class up? I went through I don't know if they do this these days but they had the fourth phase
[00:57:55] so I was in fourth phase and you just wait there until you class up so I originally classed up with
[00:58:00] Buds Class 174. How far did you make it in 174? All the way to the day before hell week and then what
[00:58:12] happened so you have like basically you go through first phase like the conditioning phase of Buds
[00:58:22] doing lots of long runs, swims, PT's, O-Cores all that stuff and um and doing this one swim
[00:58:32] like a week before that last week and on the swim my my my face mask one of the one of the
[00:58:42] lenses fell out and I just the water was it was a super choppy swims every every stroke like
[00:58:48] taking on water and then I have no you know it's I can't really see much and it's making me go
[00:58:54] slower from my swim buddy and everything and I just felt sick on the swim like nauseated and really
[00:59:01] weak and tired like not normal and when I got out of the water you know we just got hammered
[00:59:09] because we filled the swim and then I had to go in and you know uh to uh um these are just getting hammered
[00:59:17] and so it was uh that was like on a Thursday it's in the weekend and then um Tuesday comes along
[00:59:25] and then we got to do the two miles swims uh O-Cens swim and then on that swim I uh
[00:59:34] coming back past this swim when I came out of the water I could stand I was just falling
[00:59:41] and I was crawling now it's stand up and fall over again and the instructor just
[00:59:46] warmed up me and just started trying to hammer me and I'm trying to do pushups whatever but I just
[00:59:52] couldn't and then I started laughing like it was funny that was like my first experience of being
[00:59:57] in ebride because I was basically you know find out later I had hypothermia so I got I had a 91
[01:00:05] degree core temperature at that point and uh dang so they brought me you know uh to uh
[01:00:15] the hypothermia chamber and uh that's basically I had to get my um body temperature back up
[01:00:24] and uh then it's like you know you feel better yeah all right this is seal training so go get
[01:00:29] well in sandy you know right after I've come in back to normal and then they're like um um
[01:00:37] that night I just remember you know mine in the rack and thinking like you know medically I'm
[01:00:44] having some issues here and how am I gonna get through this another swim and then it just get longer
[01:00:50] you know so um I just remember tossing and turning and then the the everyone in the class was like
[01:00:56] trying to help me out so like you know back then you got to take panithonic acid pills like
[01:01:02] this b-videmen that's supposed to increase thermal genesis to make your body heat up and so uh
[01:01:09] and then you need lots of calories so what we did on this one swim before it everyone came in
[01:01:16] put Vaseline all over them I wet suit and then drink a bottle of olive oil for calories
[01:01:24] to help burn during the swim and well that's not a good idea I didn't quite finish the bottle
[01:01:32] of olive oil for it I could tell you right now it's not a good idea so um one you know it
[01:01:39] doing swim inspection and the instructors are you know checking knives CO2 cartridges
[01:01:45] and the instructor looks and they see the Vaseline on the end of the sleeve like what is this
[01:01:53] any pulls it up and he sees the Vaseline take your wet suit off and then roll around and sand
[01:02:00] and then put the wet suit back on and then do this swim and so uh I did so it's like this
[01:02:10] two mile oceans swim just like every you know add a certain point it's just the sand just destroying
[01:02:15] you skin and everything and um this is seal trading yeah so I came on I had my brother me again
[01:02:23] and you know at this time it was a lot different because I was like you know I was like
[01:02:31] my body's not working the way I wanted to you know it's I'm not quitting it's like I don't even
[01:02:36] have control the situation and uh essentially uh at that point there like you know you can't
[01:02:44] continue the training you're going to get killed you know they had a someone of you classes ahead
[01:02:50] who had died out in San Clemente you know he did a swim a four mile oceans swim
[01:02:56] came out of the water and just fell down and he didn't make it so like you know and this
[01:03:01] guy is his body temperature was only a few degrees below mine so they were like you know you're
[01:03:08] medically dropped from training and so I was uh that was on that Friday then the whole week
[01:03:15] starts for that class I was in that Sunday and I just remember being in my room like with the
[01:03:21] lights off and like you know feeling of good height you know and all of the class was going through
[01:03:28] a week and I just I wasn't allowed and you know there was some you know when I when I was
[01:03:36] um medically dropped I just started to do my own training because I was you know now I'm an
[01:03:41] extivision so I got the the navy garb on the white hat the dungajee dungajams dungajee clothing
[01:03:50] and I'm doing watch and one instructor came by and said I I always I knew you'd quit sooner
[01:03:56] later and I was like I didn't even quit so yeah you did and then walked off and that just like
[01:04:02] got me angry so I was like I'm going to do my own training so I started doing I would join the
[01:04:08] class and run behind them you know I was just being a part of the class dungajans and everything and
[01:04:15] I went and got wet and sandy and then uh instructor dungajams remember him yeah
[01:04:21] he just pulled me aside and it was like it's over son it's over and that was it and so I had
[01:04:28] order to some uh ship in like Louisiana or something like that and uh but the instructor
[01:04:38] is that saw me getting wet and sandy they were like oh look at this kid you know and uh there was
[01:04:43] an instructor named chief small and he said if you want you write him quests uh for captain's
[01:04:52] mess and I'll try to get you in training I'll put in a good word for you and get you back in the
[01:04:56] training and I was like yeah and so I would write the request but nomin extivision so I'm working
[01:05:03] for that guy bowered and this is all Vietnam that rough guy I mean it's hard for me to do
[01:05:12] justice with this guy you know what this guy was like and he would just take my request and throw
[01:05:17] it in the garbage and he just kept doing it and he would just just yell at me you'll never make it
[01:05:23] through this program so I didn't get the hell out of here and uh the guy chief small I told
[01:05:29] about he took it up to the CEO and um he got captain's mess and uh Lieutenant Zinke
[01:05:38] was I think part of that and uh those guys they said hey we're gonna give you another chance
[01:05:43] so that was explaining you know I didn't quit the training I got medically dropped like if you
[01:05:48] can gain weight because I'm like at that point I'm of six one but I weighed I looked at my medical
[01:05:53] record I weighed like 153 and you know that's just not enough mass to get you through a cold
[01:06:01] of being a frog man just just not gonna it's gonna be tough so they they're like hey it was
[01:06:07] Christmas time Merry Christmas you're back in training go get wet and uh I started up in a class
[01:06:14] 176 like a couple months later so that that time I was um that in between time of classing up
[01:06:22] I just focused on gaining weight so I would uh which really strange for a lot of people you
[01:06:28] could order pizza in butts like when everything's over you could order pizza in butts and and so
[01:06:37] I would I was like you know I have to gain weight so you know on some time off I got a big thing
[01:06:44] of that weight gain powder I got a bunch of milk like whole milk and uh I would order two for one
[01:06:53] dominoes pizza and I was just constantly drinking the milk with the weight gain I would eat a pizza
[01:07:01] before I went to sleep with the weight gain and the milk sent my clock for three in the morning
[01:07:06] and eat the other pizza you know it's it got disgusting now I had at a certain point like I'm
[01:07:12] not a pizza fan anymore but I ended up by the time I classed up I was like uh like 170
[01:07:22] and I gained weight and uh I then I classed up in butts class 176 and then and
[01:07:31] came to more difficulties with pool comp and then I got rolled into 177 your class
[01:07:38] and I wasn't even pool comp it was it was um uh like dive buddy because I was like buddy breathing
[01:07:46] or something yeah I was with Matt okay the both of you guys get rolled for that yeah
[01:07:52] so you didn't so so you you didn't get rolled into our class until
[01:07:59] second phase yeah dive phase so I went through hell week in 176 and the hard is hell week that
[01:08:05] that ever really existed in butts that's that's the 76 guys know this stuff so then you rolled
[01:08:13] into our class and uh yeah no one really told it no there was no heads up what so ever about like
[01:08:23] the pool comp and all that stuff that's something no one really knows about it they know about it now
[01:08:28] but back then they had that Texas chainsaw massacre poster in the medical area and it said but it
[01:08:35] was crossed out it's crossed out uh Texas it said butt butts pool comp massacre and it had like a
[01:08:42] mask on one of the guys that was getting his head sewn off with a chainsaw and that's where pool
[01:08:46] comp is you know you're gonna go down there and you're gonna get annihilated I tell you I mean it's
[01:08:52] really hard to do adjust is like basically it's not a matter of pain it's a matter of
[01:09:00] dealing with not being able to breathe like if and and you're on compressed air if you
[01:09:06] hold your breath and rock it to the surface you're gonna embolize and hurt yourself badly
[01:09:11] you know so you have to have that control and the instructors are taking your mask off
[01:09:16] tying your your gear and knots and you have to get these knots out I mean the other thing is um
[01:09:22] they're using the old regulators from the 50s like jacquistos you can close it and you can't breathe
[01:09:30] so they they're taking this regulator out and that's still the water and then you got to you got
[01:09:36] to turn your head to get the water out or blow it out and and their tini's see these knots in
[01:09:43] and you have to get it out it's just it's horrific and it lasts a long time yeah it's 30 minutes your
[01:09:48] first breath is water so so because when they grip that regulator out of your mouth the hose
[01:09:53] fills with water so when you put it in your mouth you can't just oh no when your first breath is
[01:09:59] and you got to like absorb the water and get it out and then you get a breath so you're
[01:10:04] you're in full panic mode as you're trying to get the knot on tied you finally get it untied
[01:10:09] and now you're just just dying for air and you put that thing in your mouth and you're still
[01:10:15] have to clear that thing it's it's really it's where I failed I failed pull comp my first time
[01:10:21] and then uh I don't know were you with us in the dip tank because over the weekend my self
[01:10:27] and a few other guys that failed did you pass it the first time when you went through with 1177
[01:10:32] did you pass pull comp no I did not oh no breath and what happened with uh you remember uh
[01:10:41] instant Davies yeah we got out on that weekend because you know we had failed we were on the wall
[01:10:49] of shame and uh we went down to Mexico to do dive journey yeah and we were like I
[01:10:57] were so weird was you know in Mexico the the beach had all this life on it that you don't see
[01:11:06] you here you know but it's essentially the same beach just further down but yeah we did a we kind
[01:11:11] of like worked on it ourselves for a bit and then uh came back and that just remember that
[01:11:17] that Sunday night thinking of everyone's just tossing the turn and then they're bed because you're
[01:11:22] like am I gonna make it through this the next day you know and uh I was able to uh you know I did it
[01:11:30] yeah we what we did and I don't I'm not sure how you weren't with us but it was me and
[01:11:36] like three or four other guys that failed pull comp on Friday and we went in the big dip tank
[01:11:42] and we straight up drowned each other we were just murdering each other in there and clear
[01:11:47] and stuff and man I was so horrified of not making it and of getting you know because I
[01:11:57] didn't even think about getting rolled as I could as far as I was concerned if I got rolled that
[01:12:00] seemed like just death you know it seemed like the worst thing ever but we pull comp each other so hard
[01:12:06] that all of us made it the first time on Monday morning like it was no factor so that extra
[01:12:12] little bit of training whether in Mexico or whether in the dip tank I also they let us do it
[01:12:17] like the instructors I don't know how we did it I don't know what happened that we had all the gear
[01:12:23] like we got full scuba tanks with air and brought them into the dip tank and just murder each other
[01:12:29] I don't know that's not legal you know like that's not okay you can't do that that's like
[01:12:34] if you if you're changing yeah they're just like there's an opening right there if you take the
[01:12:40] opportunity good on you if you don't so sorry yeah so we end up you end up in our class and that's
[01:12:51] funny I actually thought you would did everything with us I thought you got rolled into 177 I
[01:12:55] thought you went through hell week with us I didn't remember that I didn't remember that you got
[01:12:58] rolled in in you know a dive phase because yeah so then we did say in coming in island
[01:13:05] chewing tobacco yeah that's not a fun memory they found guys you're not allowed to have
[01:13:14] chewing tobacco out there and they found somebody had smuggled a bunch out a bunch and so they
[01:13:20] made everyone in the class take massive chunks of chewing tobacco and then we did like a
[01:13:28] thousand eight cow body builders which is like an old school burpy and like me I never chewed
[01:13:33] tobacco and never smoked to cigarette and and all of a sudden I got a big mouthful of this
[01:13:42] yeah I didn't dip sense that was my one and only jealous that was your opportunity
[01:13:46] does it like jam you like when you dip and you haven't ever does it like you feel like actual
[01:13:51] effects right like waste job like it jams you up kind of heart to dip yeah that stuff makes you feel
[01:13:57] sick yeah maybe it is all you it is you're burning in my mouth yeah yeah but you know how like okay
[01:14:02] let's say you never smoked to cigarette ever and then you straight up smoke a whole cigarette you're
[01:14:06] gonna be like buzzing kind of hardcore right were you buzzing from the dip is what I'm saying I didn't know
[01:14:11] it's not like I felt like I bought a motor and pain and just thinking like this is horrible
[01:14:17] but yeah like like you said Jeff occurred me have ever wanted to do that
[01:14:22] it's what I think it's important to know like you know in spec ops a lot of guys are gonna
[01:14:28] use dip true into faculty because of that reason it's like a little bit of you know
[01:14:33] catapomber is not but yeah what do you meant anything else from saying coming to Ireland
[01:14:42] besides good times and flights I'm on fire requested to do a touch and go you do they still do that
[01:14:51] like they still do fraud fraud Hills they still do fraud Hills they still do flights they still
[01:14:54] got a flight tower out there you still do touch and goes the whole nine yards yeah it's good times
[01:15:01] make it tough so then you get we got on with buds you check in a sealed team and uh so what it's
[01:15:07] nineteen ninety one when we get to sealed team one yeah it's early nineteen ninety one did we go to
[01:15:13] did we go to airborne school together yeah we went to get our airborne on for many yeah so that's
[01:15:20] different two nowadays but back then you went to army jump school there for a penny soldier
[01:15:26] and that's where seals get like a horrible I guess kind of a horrible reputation because like
[01:15:31] you're coming out of buds back in the day you'd go to airborne school which airborne is a very
[01:15:37] conventional school to go to like everyone it like a lot not everyone but a lot of people go to
[01:15:41] the go to the army jump school so there's no super high standard for physicality or anything
[01:15:47] so when you get down you're fresh out of sealed training and you're down there just feeling like you
[01:15:52] can do anything and of course the the black hats which are the instructors down there they they
[01:15:59] they you know they call everyone navy if like all every guy that's not in the army they just call
[01:16:05] you navy I never come on over here navy beach your boots that was another thing to make you do
[01:16:12] squats they say beat your boots and you basically got to hit your boots but it's pretty fun school
[01:16:17] I had a good time yeah yeah it's uh it won't be cool and then um and then we check in a sealed team one
[01:16:25] and you and well we went through SQT together or STT used to be called seal tactical training yes
[01:16:34] that was just learning all the stuff that you actually well I wanted to actually learn I'm sure
[01:16:39] we all just wanted to learn how to shoot moving communicate out of patrol explosives like this
[01:16:44] when you start doing cool or stuff besides keeping wet and sandy yes and then from there we roll
[01:16:51] into our platoon's you're in my sister-paltoon we call it brother-potin okay fair enough I wonder
[01:16:58] when they call it sister-paltoon they do they never call it brother-paltoon I mean like stores
[01:17:05] little do that too that's our sister store yeah we never say brother-paltoon or even in the teams where
[01:17:10] there's no females we say brother what's up with that I mean we say sister so you guys are in
[01:17:15] our brother-paltoon apparently now what is sister-paltoon and uh we're doing work up you know
[01:17:25] to different environment I remember your platoon your platoon had some
[01:17:30] let's just say pipe hitters in it right you guys had some heavy hitters in that
[01:17:36] platoon yeah more so than in my first platoon we had great guys my first tune but the
[01:17:42] guys that you had in your platoon were harder straight up there's no real other way I put
[01:17:47] in it they were harder on you guys for sure yeah I mean I'm lucky in the sense that
[01:17:54] I wasn't the main target I mean I was targeted I mean there was a situation we had
[01:18:04] down in Panama like with the hazing that was really extreme you know and and you know some
[01:18:14] some injuries happened I got choked out at least five times that night at least and uh
[01:18:21] yeah beaten you know it's it was that platoon was pretty hard cool yeah I've told a story on this
[01:18:29] podcast a couple times about like when I got to the team and I'm sitting out by the pull
[01:18:34] arm out doing a workout on the pull-up bar and this giant human like barely human goes
[01:18:40] lumbering out across the it's probably 200 maybe even 100 yards from like the team area to
[01:18:46] first lieutenant where the engines are and it's a guy from your platoon you know who it is the biggest
[01:18:51] guy in your platoon yeah and he's carrying a gallon of milk with him and so he's lumbering across
[01:18:56] this giant guy with this whole body tattooed no shirt on any stops like at the 50 meter mark
[01:19:04] and drinks a half a gallon of milk and then he's putting down and then he keeps walking and I'm like
[01:19:10] how am I gonna survive in this environment because it was just it was a very hostile environment
[01:19:15] back then you know very hostile in the civil platoons and and you know what a lot not a lot of it
[01:19:23] let's just say some of it was wrong some of it like some of it got taken to a point where it was
[01:19:27] not good for morale it wasn't good for unity you know some of the hazing got to a point where you're like
[01:19:33] hey that that's not that's not okay like that's wrong some of it's good you know some of
[01:19:39] it's okay you know welcome to the teams and it's a rough environment if you screw it up you're
[01:19:43] gonna pay but yeah some of it went overboard but yeah you had a you had a hard core platoon
[01:19:50] and when we when we got overseas we were you know what I remember is on old an old master chief
[01:20:00] we seem like the oldest guy had ever seen in my life which was Steve Bailey you know and he was
[01:20:04] probably like seven years younger eight years younger than I am right now he's probably like a
[01:20:08] 40 but he seems so old and he's like is anyone here want to learn how to fight and I'm like yep
[01:20:15] me and I guess I don't know if we were together when that happened but we ended up in the
[01:20:20] quans and hut with mats on the ground and he knew enough due to it's who he was like a white belt
[01:20:26] no I out my recollections different so the first deployment overseas that platoon that we were just talking
[01:20:36] about we went to Guam and then flew straight to Thailand okay and we were in Thailand and that's
[01:20:44] where I met Steve from talking about and basically I got introduced to Jitu there and then we got
[01:20:51] back to Guam you know continuing the training okay it's kind of weird 1991 and I got introduced to
[01:21:02] Jitu Brazilian Jitu in Thailand in 1991 and then actually 92 right yeah and then coming back to
[01:21:14] Guam started at the quans it up yeah so so that must have happened because you went right away to
[01:21:20] Thailand yeah I'm in still in Guam you everyone comes back from Thailand including Steve Bailey
[01:21:26] and then when he came back he must have said hey he wants to learn Jitu I raised my hand you know
[01:21:31] he I think he he's who wants to learn how to fight because I don't I think him asking who wants to learn
[01:21:36] Jitu would have been the most you know would have been like oh is this a language is this uh
[01:21:40] who didn't even know so it was more like hey he wants to learn how to fight I'm like of course and then
[01:21:44] I just remember him just choking us out I mean and everything just like with three or four different
[01:21:51] moves you know as I call he knew it maybe an arm lock in Americana maybe like the sit-up sweep he
[01:21:57] didn't there wasn't a ton of different things I can do how to take the back but it wasn't this
[01:22:03] it seemed like a lit limited number of moves that Jitu was it wasn't as evolved as it is now
[01:22:10] for sure were you already making the connection I didn't even make the connection I thought oh there's
[01:22:15] in my mind I thought Jitu was seven moves like I you know or whatever maybe when you get advanced
[01:22:21] there's twelve you know what I mean I just thought okay there's seven moves here they are practice
[01:22:27] some and then you know Jitu I didn't I didn't make the connection between that what we were
[01:22:33] learning and this whole freaking crazy sport all well my training with Steve was a really pivotal
[01:22:45] time in my life you know he introduced me to Jitu that's really changed my life in a really awesome
[01:22:54] way but also like it was a lot of striking too we did a kickboxing and you know I that's what
[01:23:04] actually solidified my my journey in Jitu because you know he had a few black belts that had
[01:23:13] trained on in his other team guys and we we were doing sparring at this point when we'd come back home
[01:23:21] and I would go down there and like for two years at least I trained three times a week there
[01:23:28] and it was one day striking and then the next day we'd do ground and I got and then like on a
[01:23:35] Friday we'd do like just sparring because I was like sealed team and the only other guys are black
[01:23:40] belts and I'm like the new guy and it's just like the goal is to knock the new guy out you know
[01:23:47] and I got my jaw dislocated by one of the guys I came in on him and he turned around
[01:23:52] and spying the hook kick right my chin and I fell forward he turned his back no hooks are nothing
[01:23:59] I just put the choke on and I choked him but then after that I couldn't remember what day it was
[01:24:05] my back teeth weren't touching and my chin was just swollen and I had to like wait around for a while
[01:24:14] so I had like the wear with all the get back home but that was like kind of like pivotal because I was
[01:24:20] like you know even when I was hurt did you Jitu goes on fuel and sometimes when you don't have
[01:24:26] your senses if you can just feel what's going on you you have a chance and so that was a big lesson
[01:24:32] for me and that's after we got home so after we got home you were staying engaged in Jitu
[01:24:40] when I got home I didn't and I think part of it's because I just thought like I said I thought well
[01:24:44] I know the seven moves of Jitu so I'm good and I was in another putoon and so I'm just like okay
[01:24:51] cool I know Jitu I'm not in mind I actually thought I knew Jitu like I'm good I know I know everything
[01:24:56] you know like it's like I know the alphabet right I know these words so I'm good and then
[01:25:00] but you kept training at what point did you find Fabio? All right so it had been
[01:25:10] I was getting out at that time okay so we do we both do another putoon right I'm in an
[01:25:17] arc putoon so I'm on a ship you go back on a spec ops deployment to go on did you go to go on
[01:25:23] so you go to go on and you're training that whole time yes and then you come home continue the training
[01:25:29] there and at that point I was like hey you know um do they have like any kind of you know like
[01:25:37] any other places I can train you know I want to learn more and I'm thinking about you know getting out
[01:25:43] and he's like well you know Steve was like you know you should maybe check out a tournament
[01:25:49] and I'm like are you okay and I was the same way and I'm thinking you know at this point you know I know
[01:25:55] your kids and um he wrote a letter to me he wrote a letter and sealed it and he said when you
[01:26:05] get up there at the tournament give this letter to hoist and I went up there and um I met
[01:26:12] hoist and gave him the letter he opened it and he said well you've been training with Steve for
[01:26:17] two years your blue belt now and so I got my blue belt from hoist Gracie and never had trained with him
[01:26:24] at all but got my blue belt there to do the tournament because like two years you know go in the blue
[01:26:29] belt division but I had never trained with the geek like when I got there I was like you know
[01:26:35] everyone had Gizmo and I was like we had all has done no geek and my first opponent was Craig
[01:26:42] Cole fobby was first black belt done here and I think it was maybe the worst I might have been
[01:26:49] a record for the worst loss in your jutsu because I didn't get tapped out but it was like I just
[01:26:54] never been swept that many times because you had the geek and I never seen those sweeps because
[01:26:59] it was always going no geek and it was like literally like 30 nothing like just I was just getting
[01:27:06] thrown around and then I remember back then my my defense for arm walk when someone gets mounted
[01:27:11] was to put your arm up and when they go for it yank your elbow down as fast as possible and he
[01:27:19] almost caught me with the arm up but when I'm I'm trying to get my arm out and then all of the
[01:27:24] friends were on the side like yelling break it and then Cole's called jutsu yeah and yeah it was
[01:27:34] probably including fobby or if he was there on the side fobby was refing oh
[01:27:41] check that's gonna work out there so then after that you know I was like hey you know is there
[01:27:50] it like hey fobby y'all Santos is opening a school down in San Diego and that's where you can
[01:27:57] train if you want to go down in train under our system so I was like yeah you know I would definitely
[01:28:01] explore it and you know when I went back I told Steve what happened and he was like you know
[01:28:07] well you know expanding horizons learn as much as you can and so I started with fobby and I
[01:28:15] would train at steeps and then at a certain point I had gotten out at this point and um I'm now
[01:28:23] getting ready to go into school so I had the GI Bill and I started working at the basic college
[01:28:30] like a local junior college. What is it like 1995? Yes and so I started at fobby's in 95 turn spring time
[01:28:44] okay so I was like very very early at fobby's like those those are some good times too
[01:28:50] yeah and then and then when you got out what was your plan when you got out?
[01:28:54] I didn't really have a plan you know I was just like um I mean realize coming from where I
[01:29:02] where I did I haven't really seen much I mean they have been in the teams but I mean like
[01:29:07] having you in like I didn't even go to school or anything after now I went in right after high school
[01:29:13] so I was like really curious about just exploring so I was like go to school I'm gonna try anything
[01:29:19] I can you know just looking at the world seeing what everything's about you know I think uh
[01:29:25] people who do come from areas like the projects in a sense you're kind of sequestered
[01:29:31] and you're not maybe seeing the big picture of things and I will say that's something for everyone
[01:29:39] you know you're in your environment and no one ever sees the whole picture
[01:29:44] maybe we see most of the picture but not the whole thing and so I think at that point I wanted to
[01:29:51] just kind of explore life and that my my plan was if I don't like it I can go back in the
[01:29:57] sealer so so then how many how many hours a day were you training jiu jitsu when you got out
[01:30:04] well what I did was I wanted a way to to be able to train a lot
[01:30:09] so I ended up working at fobios essentially you know like cleaning the mats
[01:30:17] doing the intro class running the students around you know the morning and the night class
[01:30:22] so I was just there all the open hours along with my roommate john and we basically were like
[01:30:30] fobios assistance there right now at some point I guess it was in
[01:30:36] late 95 or early 96 you came to my house you came to my house and said hey bro you want to
[01:30:48] you want to you want to go train and I was like yeah I was like of course so we go across the street
[01:30:54] to the to the to the park across the street from my house in cornado from my apartment in cornado
[01:30:59] we go down there and you just you just you know you're like let's roll and so you know I
[01:31:06] have tacked you or whatever and you were just trying to go arm lock you know whatever choke
[01:31:12] back you just annihilated annihilated me and it's actually it's crazy right it's like you had gotten
[01:31:20] so good and I just remember saying all right give me the address this place I'll be down there
[01:31:25] is it open today because I've put down there today if it's open today and it's not open today
[01:31:29] then I'll be down there tomorrow and I went down there and I said I remember talking to fobios wife
[01:31:36] and I said oh yeah I'm here I want to sign up for unlimited classes and she's like well do you
[01:31:40] want to try it first and I'm like nope I just want to sign up for unlimited classes and she's like
[01:31:44] okay so that was that and then we then it was on with the old school the old school crew at fobios
[01:31:54] which was a beast crew yeah you Dean Lister Craig Cole James Nielsen right some beast in there
[01:32:07] Greg Mack ended up showing up along the way along the way who else Dr. Mick Brent was there too
[01:32:14] Brent was there um remember Kim I see Kim at wrestling tournament sometimes he's a referee at
[01:32:22] risk wrestling tournaments Louis Louis Louis the Korean dude from uh oh Louis yeah yeah he was he was
[01:32:30] he was a judo guy originally bro he used to go hard yeah especially like early when he showed up
[01:32:36] he would be would go hard he was there he was there to win every time it's you know I look at that
[01:32:43] now in hindsight you know having have some had some judo experiences well judo the the um
[01:32:50] the way people attack is um I would say they're trying to make you tap there they're not looking
[01:33:00] for you to tap like you know I have I've even traveled in certain areas in Asia you can
[01:33:06] no one taps to chokes it's just oh you caught me to choke I'm going out they're just not going
[01:33:10] to tap to a choke so I think the judo guys um anyone who's a judo girl when they get they go for
[01:33:18] their taps like if you stand up in the guard and the guy has your arm they're going to try to break
[01:33:23] it so that if the fight does continue now you have one arm hmm so if you don't tap they're
[01:33:30] still going to win because you have one arm hmm at what point and I think Fabi or you used to say this
[01:33:38] he used to say you're the only person Jeff that went from judo to capoetta well what when
[01:33:49] did you start getting into capoetta oh that was like maybe uh a year after I got out and essentially
[01:33:58] it's just like I've been saying I want to explore and try different things you know I've never been
[01:34:02] the type of person that okay don't do this I'm like well why not you know so I was experimenting
[01:34:08] and I was like it's a good way to get good condition for judo you know learn something different
[01:34:14] and that that's another thing I remember is when you came to my house to fight me I was like
[01:34:20] well what what what what would you uh you know if you if we were going to fight how would you what would you
[01:34:26] do like how would you start it and you did some weird capoetta stuff yeah I started doing
[01:34:30] cuff yeah and I was all confused nothing like oh man I don't even know what's happening this is
[01:34:34] horrible and then I'm in a triangle taping out uh and we were competing a lot back then like every
[01:34:41] opportunity we would get we would go and compete and one of the most well it might be it's definitely
[01:34:46] the top probably five that I've been at live matches was we were at neutral grounds oh yeah
[01:34:53] which was in the ghetto in like in like engelwood or something I mean it is an nasty part of LA
[01:35:00] and it was uh it was like in the backyard of some crappy you know house and they had a cage there
[01:35:09] and there's vegan rabbit pit bulls in the alley and everything and we roll in there and um I
[01:35:17] like we all had matches and they set up it wasn't a tournament it was just like one match and
[01:35:23] God think about those matches there was so you had a well Dean had a match against the
[01:35:27] um the Armenian dude that was like a grown man and he I thought Dean I thought he like I thought
[01:35:36] the guy died of exhaustion or something in the ring I don't know if you remember that one it was
[01:35:40] me and the Armenian guys are cranking the Armenian music on boomboxes and stuff it was so crazy
[01:35:48] it was not dude and the cool thing is that's like the caro-present crew like that's them so like
[01:35:53] when caro-present was like oh yeah dude there's one of like the old school guys they had that
[01:35:59] that and they were all kind of linked to judo-jin la bell so it was just like really cool to be
[01:36:03] apart of that but you had a match at neutral grounds popping the day against uh bow herh burger
[01:36:12] who was this he was he was like Hixens as far as I know he was kind of Hixens' premier purple belt
[01:36:20] at the time and at this time like purple belt was kind of yeah if you were like purple belt was
[01:36:25] the highest level that Americans had at this point right and so you had this match against um
[01:36:31] against that guy and he was a great guy I mean he's a great competitor he competed all time we'd
[01:36:35] see him all time but you but he was a lot bigger than you a lot bigger than you you know he was
[01:36:40] probably like what do you think 200 to 20 or something like that big guy and you guys threw down
[01:36:47] energy jitsu match and you know he was kind of on top and kind of as far as I can remember
[01:36:55] sort of dominating the match and then there came the triangle out of nowhere and um that was kind
[01:37:02] of nuts man you want that is there video of that anywhere? No video I have a maybe a couple of pictures
[01:37:10] of it you know with competition you know I look at the competitions or I think it's really good
[01:37:21] to test your skill against other people in competition basically you look at someone who has the
[01:37:26] same skill level but you don't know their game and it's up to you to try to negotiate and have your
[01:37:35] or jiu jitsu win in the situation so I you know the tournaments are good I think but um you know
[01:37:44] because of Steve because of where I grew up my focus as far as jiu jitsu is self defense that's
[01:37:51] my main focus you know I look at the matches like this person won today but then if they repeat
[01:37:56] the match what happens then and repeat it again and again and again that's how you find out who's
[01:38:01] the who's the best you you found out who's the best right there you know so I I kind of I want to
[01:38:08] keep my you know my humility I guess I would say as far as like a fighting is concerned anyone can
[01:38:17] lose at any time so you know make sure your techniques on point and be aware yeah that's a weird
[01:38:24] thing too is it's it's a cool thing about jiu jitsu is like you can go so hard you can go as hard
[01:38:29] as you can you know like that's the way jiu jitsu works but then there's the other thing is it's
[01:38:35] close to this to a fight it's not even a real fight it's still not a real fight and then what do you
[01:38:39] have in those other arenas what can you do what can you what how can what can you create really
[01:38:47] is what it falls down to there's a creativity aspect that's another thing that you kind of excel at
[01:38:52] with jiu jitsu is a there's the creative aspect of kind of creating moves and creating
[01:38:58] series that work really well together how much how much you went like I remember you know when I
[01:39:05] would see you because because eventually you know we weren't all training at fob you was anymore
[01:39:10] we were training at different places and so when I'd see you would always be like you'd be deep
[01:39:16] into yoga you'd be deep in a kettlebells or you'd be deep into Bulgarian bag or you'd be deep in the
[01:39:21] sombo you were always going down these different paths to add to your to add to your repertoire of
[01:39:29] moves and movement and strength and conditioning yes is that just still something that you're always
[01:39:34] doing yes I mean one thing that happened very pivotal thing you know when I was in school the thing I
[01:39:43] focused on first was trying to get some type of work so they had the a senior
[01:39:50] community college fitness specialist so I they had that the first year I was in that first class
[01:39:56] and so I did that to become a personal trainer the way personal training set up you know if you
[01:40:03] work for like an organization like ace or something like that you always have to upgrade your
[01:40:08] your training and so what I did was I would go outside of ace and see oh you know what's this
[01:40:16] like what's this like and I saw this advertisement for um circular strength training and uh I went to
[01:40:26] bellingham washington and I did the CST course with Scott Sonnen and you know how it's why is that
[01:40:35] relevant to what we're talking about Scott Sonnen is the guy who kind of coined the term the saddle
[01:40:42] and he's a sample instructor the distinguished master of sport american and um he basically
[01:40:51] developed that leg lock game of the saddle which everyone does today especially no if you're
[01:40:58] in no key that's a big part of it you just see I don't think he gets the credit for it but uh he
[01:41:04] even had a video that came out that uh didn't really go over to like I guess like as far as like
[01:41:09] it is everyone knows it now but uh he doesn't get the credit for it so I um I did want to mention that
[01:41:16] I trained with him with the clubs and did that um certification but then afterwards we went and
[01:41:24] trained together and um you know I learned some things about the uh basically the thing I learned is
[01:41:30] no martial art has all the answers and if you understand the counters to a martial art you can
[01:41:40] counter it if you are on time and you do the technique right and uh you know from his end
[01:41:47] sambal judo i think he did uh system as well I don't really know too much about that but I was
[01:41:53] concerned with learning sambal and he was like hey you know you can even um if you'd like compete
[01:42:01] in sambal but you're gonna have to get your throes together because I'll just purely jitsu and uh
[01:42:08] I was like all right yeah well I want to get back home I'll do some judo I'm like I'll do some judo
[01:42:13] for like two weeks and then I'll be ready for sambal and I've gotten the judo and I learned
[01:42:20] judo's its own thing and so I never really had much contact with Scott's son and after that but you
[01:42:30] know he for warm for him I probably never done judo so then I started training at judo america
[01:42:37] and uh continued on in judo so I think it's very important if you are a jitsu god jiu definitely
[01:42:44] need to learn some type of stand up fighting whether it's striking or throwing wrestling
[01:42:51] learn something that you can do stand up because if you cannot get the takedown
[01:42:55] were you gonna do block punches with your face so you don't want to do that
[01:43:01] it's a where's all lead to where does it lead to you what are you doing now
[01:43:05] uh pull I was uh teaching jiu jitsu at studio 540 and doing a lot of privates
[01:43:14] personal training um people probably know right now studio 540 is defunct but um I'm still continuing
[01:43:20] on with personal training and jiu jitsu privates and also why travel so at a certain point
[01:43:31] you know mark we are another mutual friend that started with us in jiu jitsu another team guy
[01:43:39] he had a school and a corn auto and invited me to come you know train there and teach there and so
[01:43:46] I started doing that and um a Russian guy came in a judo and he was curious about jiu jitsu and
[01:43:55] started training with us and then he said hey you know um we need to see we want to see some
[01:44:01] jiu jitsu in Russia and he said hey if one of you guys want to come out you know co-man out and teach
[01:44:08] you know I'll set everything up and uh they were no takers I was like hey well I'm not doing anything
[01:44:14] I'll go and so I ended up going to uh flooding vostok and so I've been going there like um you know
[01:44:23] once a year every two years and work with those guys um I had a guy that I uh that I worked with
[01:44:31] in Germany Ryamar he owns a tenshow it's a really great school in a Hamburg, Germany so usually
[01:44:40] on this trip I'll go to Russia, Vladivostok, Flyol-A, Krashtim-Masko and then over to
[01:44:46] Hamburg, Germany train with those guys then I stop over in New York, visit my brother and then
[01:44:52] all the way back here. Where do you have you learned any Russian? In every country I've been in
[01:44:59] everyone speaking English so I haven't really had a home incentive to really learn much.
[01:45:04] How long do you usually stay in Russia for? Uh usually two weeks so you're training in
[01:45:11] Russia with mostly judo based guys it's sambo guys just fighters. Nice a lot of Vladivostok
[01:45:21] team to jitsu. Oh so it's jiu jitsu guys yeah. Oh okay. Yeah I mean jiu jitsu is a worldwide
[01:45:27] martial art right now it's everywhere. Well I guess I thought that because you said when the guy
[01:45:30] came to your school he was a judo guy. Yeah he was a judo guy and basically in the judo world
[01:45:35] all this you know that you're just a guy you know they're they're learning like if you're going
[01:45:40] the ground you're probably going to get tapped out and so he wanted to learn something a bit about
[01:45:47] BJJ and so uh I want to and the issue there is they're training with Dolan struck there just going
[01:45:55] off video and there are some hard core highly skilled guys over there and and women I mean like this
[01:46:04] it's uh I mean in this area where we're training before class they have a sambo and then they have
[01:46:12] judo men's and women's you know and everyone's going hard so I mean I think everyone needs to
[01:46:21] especially here Brazil get ready because in Russia they're like they're doing I think that it's
[01:46:28] Russian Federation on Brazilian jiu jitsu but they allow all the leg locks so you have guys who are
[01:46:36] highly skilled at sambo learning and and if you're a highly skilled at sambo if you're a master's
[01:46:43] foreign sambo you're probably a master's port in judo or at least a black belt because the
[01:46:48] styles are very very similar except it's you know sambo of course has the leg locks so you better
[01:46:54] be prepared because I think you know over time they're used to something that you're not used to
[01:47:01] and you can make a difference when you say they're used to something I'm saying like do a ghee tournament
[01:47:07] and all leg locks are allowed oh god yeah and ten years what's going to happen yeah when
[01:47:14] those guys can be here and they're going to have to at some point in America open up
[01:47:19] leg locks for the ghee it's just it's silly right well the issue is it's a sport and they're
[01:47:28] looking at you know long-term health of people and I can tell you when I'm in a sambo class like looking
[01:47:34] at the sambo fighters in Russia I think everyone has at least one leg rat everyone's hurry
[01:47:41] yeah don't you think it's a little bit too like the culture over there is a little bit different
[01:47:49] just in terms of like yeah Russian culture is very different why because they're getting
[01:47:54] not more often like the guys with the leg but like you say you see everyone with a leg rap
[01:47:59] meaning they kind of maybe have an injury or hurt legs yes leg locks and stuff yeah that's what
[01:48:05] I was thinking too I was like wait but like we have like no ghee has leg locks here so we don't have
[01:48:12] that much of that but then how you say like Russian they go hard so consider leg locks is being a
[01:48:16] complete part of the the jujitsu culture or sambo and all this but they go hard that's when you're
[01:48:22] going to see that yeah and and also what is complete I mean if you look at you know having
[01:48:28] trained in judo now you're uh Kano's original vision was you have a style where you can strike
[01:48:40] you can throw oh you're still moving on the ground I can submit so it's I think it's imperative
[01:48:46] whether you learn wrestling judo sambo you need some type of stand-up art you know that's the
[01:48:53] full complete system yeah it's tough to like the kids that wrestle like like if you if you
[01:49:00] you start jujitsu I'm not saying you're not going to be able to pull this off but if you start jujitsu
[01:49:04] at whatever you know 24 or 31 or whatever you start later in life to get the reps in for the
[01:49:13] take-down game when you're a little bit more fragile and compared to a kid that wrestled you know
[01:49:20] six years old eight years old ten years old through high school had you know hundreds of
[01:49:25] tournaments hundreds of hours in the on the mat doing take downs and by the time like that's
[01:49:33] whether you have seen so dominated by wrestlers because they are they have that in thing just
[01:49:38] embedded they don't they don't need to learn that that's embedded in them they know how to get that
[01:49:42] take down they know how to get out the take down they know how to scramble there's a huge part of that
[01:49:46] wrestling comes in and that's what's when you start taking that and you just make replace wrestling
[01:49:52] with sombo and now you've been doing that your whole life which has take downs yes it also has
[01:49:57] submissions it also has new ox and front locks I wish that there was just something like unified
[01:50:06] grappling that's that's a vision you know that was kind of happening that studio 540
[01:50:13] yeah all different kinds of black belts from all over coming together to teach their jujitsu
[01:50:18] I mean because but beyond that right what you need is unified grappling where
[01:50:25] the whole world says these are the rules like these are the rules the whole world so
[01:50:31] in the Olympics there's no more judo wrestling um at freestyle wrestling greco it's just like
[01:50:39] grappling unified grappling if you want to like if we're gonna get invaded by aliens that
[01:50:47] grapple if we're gonna compete with them we got to unify this we got to unify this pretty quickly
[01:50:53] otherwise they're gonna have a leg up because they've been out there you know in their planet
[01:50:58] and they're they've combined it all together they got the unified grappling potentially this is
[01:51:04] what are we gonna tell the aliens Jeff we'll give you like hey no no reaping here hey no what
[01:51:10] was it no guitines you know no guitines from that position we can't tell that to an alien they don't
[01:51:15] care they're they're they're the win that's very true unified grappling free the world
[01:51:22] you know on that subject uh this might uh rub a few few people in wrong way but I think when I look at
[01:51:29] you Gitu one thing I think that can really help is to make a rule set of that switched like in
[01:51:38] other words if I pass your guard that's three points make that an advantage and make actual
[01:51:45] submissions like if you have to escape it those are the points we what finishes flights where you
[01:51:51] could actually have killed this person chokes make those four points and if I see I have the choke on
[01:51:58] and you're trying to escape and you get out as four points and then this way people are
[01:52:04] pulling after submissions more rather than because I had a judeau judeau cub body
[01:52:11] a ross and he would do juditsu tournaments in the black belt division he's a judeau black belt
[01:52:19] and he would win some of these tournaments you know 50 50 I would assume but basically he's like
[01:52:25] I'm gonna throw and stay on top and stay out of submissions and basically he could do that at
[01:52:30] will cause he's like a legit judeau cub and that's that's a problem now if you do it this way
[01:52:37] that's just an advantage but you now you're forcing people to go for the submission more yeah well
[01:52:44] maybe that's part of the unified grappling rules yeah those are jokes four points
[01:52:48] arm lock shoulder locks type stuff maybe three points b j j doesn't like uh leg locks you
[01:52:56] much make that two points here's the only here's the only argument I'll say against that
[01:53:02] if you're in a fight and you get across side you get past someone's guard that's a real problem
[01:53:10] like if we if we're gonna real fight that's why I think it's so advantageous well that's
[01:53:14] why I think it's a big deal because they say oh if you pass the guard if you weren't a fight
[01:53:20] you're got a you're not much much much worse situation than you were in a second ago right so that's
[01:53:27] and if you're mounted even worse right half guard a little bit but so I think there's the
[01:53:34] LN if you give up the back obviously in a real fight that's the that's the biggest problem so
[01:53:40] you remove the striking but if you added the striking in those positions are in some ways even
[01:53:45] more important even more relevant well I'm not saying philosophy I didn't say the relevance of
[01:53:51] all of those positions are any less I'm just saying for a sport to get people to go more
[01:53:57] for submissions rather than because there are we've seen it once you guys who are wrestle in high
[01:54:04] school I got to take down advantage I'll take this person down wiggle a little bit to make sure
[01:54:09] the rev things I'm still doing something they stand us up I do it again and they want and they never
[01:54:14] submitted anyone and you feel really tempted to submission yeah you feel cheated you're on the
[01:54:20] bottom doing guard the whole time and couldn't do anything because you got stalled out yeah
[01:54:24] installing is a real thing yeah if someone's stalling that's like a hard thing to undo you know
[01:54:33] I mean without strikes yeah yeah and then you had the strikes in yeah that's a whole different
[01:54:38] thing so you're talking about essentially like with the philosophy you know of fighting you
[01:54:43] know let's kind of keep it to that yeah but for the sport you're absolutely right like even if
[01:54:48] like even just stalling in general like even if you're just up by some points that you got from
[01:54:53] all your cool take down whatever and then they take you down and you're now they're only
[01:54:59] kind of they're only the only thing they can do really is tap you out because there may be a minute
[01:55:04] left they can't score 14 points in a minute to not get tapped out if someone's just my whole thing
[01:55:10] yeah you're mounted just like a drill and you just don't want to get tapped out that's hard for
[01:55:14] the guy you it's hard to tap someone out like way harder to tap someone out when they're their
[01:55:19] whole thing is just not to get tapped out so yeah it can be like an issue for the sport it's like
[01:55:24] what's the last feet do you follow you know if you still get the same result of guard passing
[01:55:29] and positional dominance because well what kind of arm walks are you doing when you're in someone's
[01:55:34] guard you know I'm not going to do a commemorative of on your guard now you're still forced to I mean
[01:55:40] those principles of also call me those are all the positions right of pinning someone those are
[01:55:47] still going to be important I mean in judo you know there's no there are no points for guard passing
[01:55:52] it's just pin this person because I know if I have you pinned if I want to like it bash you
[01:55:57] or I could go into submissions right yeah so that the advantage for guard passing or whatever
[01:56:04] isn't the points it's because you're now your cross side there's your advantage so it's kind
[01:56:08] it's sort of like so use it then yes that's such a great you know use it but you're not getting
[01:56:13] points for that kind of stuff over here that's the Jeff Higgs way you know and I'm not saying you know
[01:56:18] I'm you know it's just a thought you know maybe it's a nothing thought but the idea is to
[01:56:25] keep the purity of gone for submissions in judo I mean I think with rules that we're seeing
[01:56:33] in bjj j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j j I think
[01:56:44] the ultimate rule set for grappling is no striking that's it no time limit no submissions are barred
[01:56:52] just so you're not allowed to punch or strike the other person or kick them. Other than that,
[01:56:58] you can get after it. And you can go as long as it takes, which means people are going to have to,
[01:57:04] you know, come get up. Yeah. Yeah. But come on, let's face, I mean, the sport thing, you know,
[01:57:08] you can't make the audience there for, you know, five hours. Well, I don't know. People do
[01:57:14] other sports that take a really long time and they manage to tell them, I've got baseball
[01:57:18] game takes many hours. Right. So you would occasionally you'd get some weird match that goes like
[01:57:24] nine hours before someone taps out from dehydration. That's what I want to see. I want to see someone
[01:57:30] tap out from dehydration. You know what I'm saying? Because you know, I'm going to get a drink. You got
[01:57:35] to go in hydrated. You got to go into fuel in your system. Yeah. So yeah. So like different, I think,
[01:57:40] and baseball. But yeah, because baseball, you have like understood little breaks. That's why we can hang out.
[01:57:46] Right. That's why it can last so long. Yeah. It's a legitimate, a no time limit. It's just your tournament.
[01:57:51] There would be like a limitation just by nature. Yeah. That's right. But the limitations of human
[01:57:57] for the audience member, then I'm going to be happy about that because at any moment, the match could
[01:58:01] technically turn around. Yeah. Why do I do that? I mean, for that. I'm not sure why not. I'm not sure
[01:58:05] that is you run three matches at the same time. So two of those matches are going to at least
[01:58:10] one of those out of three is going to be kind of exciting at some point. So you just run in three matches.
[01:58:14] You focus the television over there. I got this solved. Yeah. What did I have name for this? What was
[01:58:20] I naming it? You know, five grappling. No, unified grappling. Yeah. But there's just like no,
[01:58:25] no time limit death matches, basically. Because it's you the only way to win. There's one way to win.
[01:58:31] Make the other person tap out. Yeah. That's the one way you win. Yeah. That's a good change.
[01:58:36] Remember the hex internaments that were like that? It was you put, you could also win by 15 points.
[01:58:42] Yeah. So those matches would not go long. Those matches would not go long. You could win by 15 points
[01:58:51] or submission. And those matches would be like seven minutes, four minutes, 10 minutes, occasionally
[01:58:56] there'd be some 20 minute match. Yeah. Rarely. But the Gracie tournament is similar. I mean,
[01:59:04] they they give you points for guard pass, mount, and back control. Those are the only points.
[01:59:09] Uh-huh. And, you know, the rest is continuing to hold someone gets submitted or 15 points. Yeah.
[01:59:16] Yeah. Because 15 points does show you win. You mean, if you beat somebody by 15 points,
[01:59:22] that means positionally, if you were in a real fight, you would have due to destroy them. Yeah.
[01:59:27] It's horrible when you get someone that's really good like positionally like an MMA fighter to roll with
[01:59:33] and like I'll do this with Taylor. We got a guy here named Taylor Johnson and he's a savage
[01:59:38] wrestler and he's savage and everything. But, you know, he gets a position on me and I'm just thinking
[01:59:43] if we were in a fight right now, he would just he would be just killing me. He would be punching
[01:59:50] me in the head until I was dead repeatedly like repeatedly dead because he wants to be in the
[01:59:58] so it uh, if anybody wants to get a hold of you, like anyone wants to get a seminar because that's
[02:00:04] another thing, you know, you mentioned it self defense and how that's kind of what your focus is.
[02:00:10] It's really solid. Like you have your own little techniques in there. You got moves. I know you do
[02:00:16] weapon stuff. If somebody wants to get a hold of you to get some kind of training, what do they do? Who do they
[02:00:20] contact? I guess they could contact me. Well, how would they do that? So this is an issue, um,
[02:00:26] jococent mutex last night and said, do you have Instagram and I said no, I don't have any social
[02:00:35] media and um, basically I can give you my email. You can call me and leave a message.
[02:00:44] Oh, that's basically how I do you have like an email that could be open to the public because you
[02:00:50] don't want to be given out your email that's you know you're you're doing your normal personal business on to a bunch of people. All right. Well,
[02:00:58] let me let me make one right now and then I'll set this email up. All right. So we will put that out in the future.
[02:01:06] And I'll post it how to get in touch with jive. You know echo, you got anything else? No, that's it.
[02:01:16] It's good to see you again. Yeah, and then good to be here. Thanks for having me on.
[02:01:21] Yeah, man. Any other any other closing thoughts? Anything I missed? Well, I think, um, right now it's
[02:01:27] a really important thing. We're looking at the, uh, I'm talking about the world situation right now.
[02:01:35] And um, I think it's really important, you know, with all these things going on that we somehow
[02:01:44] get some cohesion. Because, um, I mean, looking at you, jitsu, seal team, all these different ways of
[02:01:54] destruction. It's a lot easier to destroy than it is to create and you know, as we have to start thinking on a
[02:02:01] species level, I don't really want to get preachy on people, but I mean, just something I see,
[02:02:07] um, if we don't do it, humans in general are getting so good at war and destruction that we're
[02:02:16] going to end up killing ourselves and really all around us, you know, you have the universe.
[02:02:23] We, there's a wake-up core right now. The whole planet got caught off guard with the virus.
[02:02:29] Luckily, I mean, there are a lot of people that have died from it, but um,
[02:02:33] the death rate is not like 50% or higher. I mean, what if Ebola was as contagious as this virus?
[02:02:42] So we have to be smart with what we're doing, basically nature, given us human species, a wake-up call,
[02:02:51] on, got to start being aware of what's going on outside of our little bubble, the human bubble.
[02:02:57] That's basically what I wanted to say. There's like, um, this is, you know, physicists,
[02:03:07] you could be familiar with the cardish-o-scale. No. So a physicist was, um, astronomer looking
[02:03:17] out into space, you know, with his equipment and what do you look for in space for life? And so
[02:03:28] he started coming up with things that he would look up, look for. And he came up with these levels,
[02:03:35] type 0, type 1, type 2, type 3, and humans right now are type 0. Civilization, civilization,
[02:03:43] right, type 1 is when we actually have a really good control of the planetary systems.
[02:03:50] And then type 2 is when we have control of the energy of the sun and type 3, the galaxy.
[02:03:57] You know, this is all hypothetical. But the issue is, you know, with our capability at war right now,
[02:04:04] you got to be really careful because if we don't reach that type 1 level where, you know,
[02:04:11] at a certain point we're going to be able to give, um, there's going to be food everything for
[02:04:16] everyone. You see what I'm saying? Like, over time humans make things easier. And one of the,
[02:04:25] one of the issues we have is all resources and stuff like that that are, um, if they're in low supply
[02:04:32] here, you have that starts calling these kermishes and stuff like that. So what I'm saying is over time,
[02:04:36] those problems are going to be solved. But before we reach that one at a certain point,
[02:04:43] weapons and, and how to fight that also starts to spread. And then at a certain point,
[02:04:50] we can end up destroying ourselves before you know reach type 1 civilization.
[02:04:55] And type 1, type 1 allows us to leave the planet?
[02:04:58] At a, yeah, of course, we'll be at a point where, uh, you know, we're not even type 1 now and we've left the planet.
[02:05:07] Leave the planet and stay somewhere. I mean, no, type 1 is harness the energy of our planet. Like all the energy,
[02:05:13] not just like oil or whatever. It's like basically utilize 100% of the energy available from our planet,
[02:05:18] whatever that is. That's type 0 type 1. That's type 1, we're not even there yet. How do you know this,
[02:05:23] Michael Charles, can I say, you just figured it out? We hang out at the same spot. So, you know,
[02:05:31] so essentially I'm getting at, you know, uh, we don't want to get caught off guard.
[02:05:38] And I see there's a lot of separation right now and a lot of social unrest.
[02:05:43] And we have to get through that to a point where we start to unify. It's very, very tough to do.
[02:05:53] But hopefully it can happen. What do you see as like when you see the, the disunification?
[02:06:01] Like what do you see as things to move in the right direction of becoming unified again?
[02:06:08] Well, I think one of the main reasons is, um, not thinking on a species level. And you know,
[02:06:16] when I'm talking about this, I feel kind of funny because it feels like I'm talking in the clouds or something like that.
[02:06:21] But I'm just being really genuine and sincere about the human species looking at itself as a species.
[02:06:30] And not as so separate, you know, in my travels. And then came from the projects,
[02:06:34] came out to came here and became a seal and uh, San Diego, my travels in Jiu Jitsu learning their
[02:06:44] judo, uh, traveling around the world. And I've seen all kinds of different people, you know,
[02:06:49] in the sealed team, southeast Asia, been down Central America, South America, Russia.
[02:06:55] And I see everyone really wants the same thing, basics of life, you know, and, and, and
[02:07:01] if you, if you're in the military going the rush is kind of a big deal in the sense because they were like the great enemy.
[02:07:09] And I see like a family over there, just like everybody else, everyone's trying to live their life the best they can.
[02:07:17] And uh, the separatism that we have is making a big problem. We're going to end up killing ourselves before
[02:07:24] we reach a level where everything can be better for everyone. That way, I mean, before I even continues,
[02:07:33] that sound like kind of wacky. No, no. Because you know what it is actually like you make a good point where it's
[02:07:38] like, and people got to point this out like people's like that's, I mean that that's obviously like good that you say that.
[02:07:44] People do say that everyone's on a, but that's a lot of time not what you hear. So when like what you're talking about is essentially like,
[02:07:50] you know, if you have, you know, you have kids, right, where let's say, you know, I don't know, you have a goal to get somewhere to do something.
[02:07:56] Or really just a general goal as a family where it's like, okay, our job as parents is to maintain this household.
[02:08:02] Make sure you guys are prepared for life when you grow up. And when you do that, you're going to be successful in whatever way you want to be.
[02:08:07] And then you can sort of do the same and around we go, right? Same kind of attitude to perpetuate that species.
[02:08:14] Exactly right. So you know, and a smaller analogy is like a family situation.
[02:08:18] But currently in our family, the whole world, we're kind of infighting. You know, the brothers and sisters will fight and it'd be like, hey, he took my thing. No, no, he hit me, he pulled my hair.
[02:08:28] So he goes, well, you pull my hair back even harder. And now they're fighting. And then you're like, hey, don't yell. And then the wife is like, hey, don't yell at her like that.
[02:08:36] You didn't have to say, you know, so we're all infighting. We're forgetting about like, we don't forget about, I think we get distracted by just a little micro feeling or the, the short term things that go on.
[02:08:48] And we start to forget about, you know, progress. You know, I mean, I just, I don't want to come off sound and hide minded or anything like that.
[02:08:57] You know, I'm just looking at the world, per se. And what has jett happened, not just our country, but all over the world.
[02:09:08] Like this virus has come out and everyone got caught with their pants down. What kind of prep was made everywhere.
[02:09:14] Now, what if that virus was more deadly? I mean, what we have to be smart. Yeah. What would that, would that unify the world against a common enemy or would it separate the world more?
[02:09:30] And here's, remember, I had, I had it started guy named Peter Tia. He's a doctor and he was a doctor in the, in the trauma center and he are doctor in Baltimore.
[02:09:41] And so I forget the statistics. He was dealing with something like 18 puncture wounds a day. So that's shootings and stabbing.
[02:09:49] This is Baltimore, you know, one of the worst crime rates in, it's actually one of the worst crime rates in the world. I don't know if you knew that.
[02:09:56] It's in the whole world. It's one of the worst crime rates. So that's what he's dealing with. And what he said was, when you have a family come in that's gone through this kind of trauma,
[02:10:05] usually it's the loss of someone because these puncture wounds are, you know, stabbing or not everyone says, hey, to use the work, not everyone says lucky as your brother was
[02:10:13] taking a seven inch knife to the chest and surviving, right? Most people are going to die from that. And that's what happens. So what he said was,
[02:10:22] if the family is tight, they're tight knit family and they, and this horrible event occurs,
[02:10:30] this pressure will make them even tighter. However, opposites also true, if there's fractures in the family,
[02:10:41] those fractures under that pressure explode and it destroys the families. So I think what you're seeing right now and what you're talking about is,
[02:10:50] let's face it. In the world as a species, there's fractures, right? There's fractures with different countries,
[02:10:58] there's fractures with different cultures. And all of a sudden we just got put under pressure by the disease.
[02:11:06] And what we're seeing now is we're starting to see these fractures expand. And what I will, from my perspective,
[02:11:15] the thing that we miss and I keep trying to say this in different ways and maybe I mean, I'll keep trying to say it,
[02:11:21] you know, in the military, what you end up doing is you end up dehumanizing the enemy. And it's
[02:11:29] kind of a goal, right? Kind of a goal to say, you know what, I'm going to have to go kill these people.
[02:11:36] That's what I'm going to get told to do. I'm going to go kill these people. So you know what,
[02:11:39] I'm not even going to call them people because there's some part of your subconscious that says, hey,
[02:11:42] it's not okay to kill people. So you know what, I'm going to call them animals, I'm going to call them savages. I'm going to call them,
[02:11:47] whatever, I'm going to call them crouts, right? World War II. I'm going to call them gooks in the
[02:11:54] Korean War. We're going to give them names that's not people. So now we start to dehumanize them and now
[02:12:00] substance is a little easier. Makes that job a little bit easier to kill them. Okay, so that's a war.
[02:12:04] That's what happens there. Well, what happens when you start looking at the different culture
[02:12:10] and you start doing the same thing because you're like, well, I got to take care of the peat. We're
[02:12:14] getting pressured by this disease. We're getting pressured by it and I'm going to take care of the
[02:12:20] people that are with me. And what do I do? How do I, how do I be mentally okay with that?
[02:12:26] I got a good solution for you. I'm going to dehumanize the other people. And now we get separated
[02:12:31] and now we don't talk to them. And so that's what when you talk about Jeff, when you go to these
[02:12:35] other countries and you start talking to people, all of a sudden, they're not Russians to you,
[02:12:44] they're whatever. Ivan, you know, they're a person with a family and it becomes they become humanized
[02:12:52] to you, just like when they meet you and they go, you know, they have this horrible vision of
[02:12:55] what Americans are like and then they meet you and you're cool and guess what, y'all do you
[02:12:58] do you do? And you like foot locks and it's like all of a sudden it becomes human. But we don't do that.
[02:13:03] We don't humanize each other on a broad scale, which is very strange right now because we should
[02:13:07] have the ability to do that better than anyone right now, right? Because we've got all these
[02:13:12] communication systems set up where we should be able to say, hey, everybody, look, let's, let's
[02:13:17] be together. But instead we show each other the worst part of our, of ourselves and we place blame
[02:13:25] instead of taking ownership and that's kind of how we do. So instead of us unifying as you said Jeff,
[02:13:31] this pressure that gets put on us by something like this virus, all of a sudden we become more
[02:13:36] fragmented and when we become fragmented, the ability to communicate with each other goes down instead
[02:13:41] of up and the possibility of someone actually saying, hey, hold on a minute, you know,
[02:13:47] other human or other thing, wait, maybe you have some of the same, whatever you just said Jeff
[02:13:55] about like, hey, everyone's pretty much got the same goals, right? Like you said, like, hey,
[02:14:00] I want my kids to have a better life than me. I want my kids to do better than me. I want them to have
[02:14:06] a nice be able to be able to have their own family and kind of repeat what we did here. That's
[02:14:11] kind of a common theme and it's the same thing and I rock, you know, whenever I explain on Iraqi
[02:14:17] family to people, I say, oh, if you want to know what an Iraqi family is like, it's very easy for me to
[02:14:23] explain. It's like an American family. Like if you have you asking some Iraqi dad, what his goal is,
[02:14:29] his goal is to take care of his kids, you know, build up a house, build the business, or their
[02:14:35] kid, that's what their goals are. The same thing when you ask an American dad that, the same thing,
[02:14:39] so it's across the board. We get in these situations where instead of we're all like a massive
[02:14:44] dehumanization mode. Well, how the relevance to jujitsu is there's definitely a clanish aspect to
[02:14:54] all martial arts. A trained tycoindole, you're trained in voyetai, you know, you're nothing,
[02:15:00] you know, this kind of attitude of, well, and from my experience going and learning a different
[02:15:10] martial art starting from round up, you see that the martial arts also all have the same goal
[02:15:17] of, I get into an altercation, I can take care of myself. You know, so it's, I think, um, learning
[02:15:25] this stuff has, has kind of, it has changed me in a way where I'm trying to, instead of
[02:15:34] compare and contrast and trying to see how we're more similar, rather than how we're
[02:15:39] more different. That's a way to, through it is it. Yeah, and the other interesting thing about
[02:15:44] how let's face it. If you, if you know, jujitsu more Thai, boxing, wrestling, tycoindole,
[02:15:52] ninjitsu, can poll, if you know, if you know 27 different martial arts, right? And somebody introduces
[02:16:01] you to the 29th, if you have an open mind, you will learn something from that other thing, right?
[02:16:10] It's kind of like, I mean, back in the day Jeff, you and I lived through this where it was a jujitsu
[02:16:17] move or it was bullshit. If it wasn't a, if it wasn't a jujitsu move, like, this is a jujitsu move,
[02:16:24] then it's bullshit, right? That's the, that's the old mentality. Like, that is not a jujitsu move.
[02:16:30] So, therefore, it can't work and it shouldn't be part of the system. It shouldn't be part of the
[02:16:35] world. That's a bad attitude to have. And it's the same attitude, if you look at another culture,
[02:16:39] and you're like, okay, well, there's a lot of things that in that culture that does it make sense
[02:16:44] to me, what does make sense? How do you open your mind to say, okay, well, at least if I don't
[02:16:51] want to be a part of that culture, what can I take from it? What can I understand from it? How can I
[02:16:56] relate to it? So, it makes me and my culture a little bit better, a little bit more understanding,
[02:17:02] have a better grasp on the world. And we, we don't do that just like the old school martial arts
[02:17:08] and specifically the old school jujitsu was if it's not part of this, then if it's not jujitsu,
[02:17:15] don't, don't do it, doesn't work and it's don't bring it in here. And that's the way, I mean,
[02:17:19] I think I guess you could say like Bruce Lee, you know, he was kind of an early adopter,
[02:17:25] and you know, if it doesn't, you know, he had some great quotes of which I can't think of any
[02:17:29] right now, but it's a good, what's useful, this guy at the right. There you go, thank you.
[02:17:33] Absorbwood's useful, discard the rest, so that's the attitude to have. And yet what we like to do
[02:17:41] martial arts and in life is discard everything else. We're not listening. I don't want to know what
[02:17:48] you know, what you know doesn't make sense to me and I don't want to be a part of it.
[02:17:54] I hope, you know, I'm not, and I don't have any misconceptions like, you know, we're all going to
[02:17:59] be holding hands singing Kumbayana all the stuff. I'm not saying anything. Well, I've
[02:18:03] fallen down all the hands with people saying, not there. I can't get that.
[02:18:10] But over, basically, what I'm saying is over time, what people have now, they didn't have
[02:18:17] a century ago, you know, humans progress over time to get better, all people do this.
[02:18:22] And the same thing with, you know, our war and stuff like that. We got to find answers or we're
[02:18:30] going to end up destroying ourselves or in the fights against ourselves, something else is going
[02:18:36] to get us. And this is a warning sign from nature. You know, there's a whole universe out there.
[02:18:42] I mean, when you start studying things in science, like astronomy and stuff like that,
[02:18:47] and how really big and expansive, you know, reality really is, we're in a really little small space.
[02:18:54] And I know, maybe to some religious people, you know, science perspective is not really that great.
[02:19:01] But, um, I'm trying to deal with what we know with some certainty. You know, what I do know,
[02:19:08] certainly, is we're in this life right now. We want to make it the best we can before it's over.
[02:19:13] And so that's why I wanted to put that point out. And on a, on a personal level,
[02:19:24] like it seems like you're doing your best to kind of reach out the world and make that happen.
[02:19:31] Through, through jujitsu, through martial arts. Yeah, I have to say, um,
[02:19:37] even, even, seal team. I mean, getting and seal team coming out of the projects. I don't know
[02:19:43] anyone from the projects is in that that was in the teams during that time. You know, I was definitely
[02:19:48] unique in that aspect. So, um, you get introduced to all different people. And you know,
[02:19:55] when you travel around the world, same thing. And, uh, what we're going to keep doing what we're
[02:20:02] doing, because I think the path right now might not be the best one. And again, with humility,
[02:20:10] because I know when you start talking like this, people are like, you know, shut that, shut the
[02:20:14] fuck up, whatever, whatever the, whatever the case. Hmm. When you, when you look at the, it's the
[02:20:24] the idea, I think, here's, here's the crazy thing. The most simplistic thing that you've said
[02:20:29] is the thing that people have such a hard time with, which is looking at all humans as one species.
[02:20:39] That's why when you put that video out last week, a couple of weeks. And about everyone's being
[02:20:47] human, I was like, you know, that was a cool thing, man. You know, it's, it's, you know, especially
[02:20:53] right now in the state of the US, what's going on, you know, it's really important that we stay smart.
[02:21:02] You know, because there is still this virus out there that we have to be aware of. I was, you know,
[02:21:08] in my studies, I have a book here on, on pandemics. When you look at the 1918 pandemic,
[02:21:17] you had three waves. Some will say maybe even a fourth wave if you do the research. But the
[02:21:22] first wave was regular flu. That started, I believe, March 4, 1918. And then over the next few months
[02:21:32] in the fall, the virus mutated. And then kill upwards of 50 million people.
[02:21:41] That's a possibility. Hmm. So we have to be smart with what we're doing. I understand the social
[02:21:47] aspects that we're looking at too. That's important. But, you know, the health of the planet too
[02:21:53] is also really important. Got to look out for each other. Got to look out for each other.
[02:22:02] It's true. I think that's a good place to wrap this up a little bit.
[02:22:08] I mean, have a question. I think I said you saw that video that juggle made a few weeks ago.
[02:22:12] Where did you see that video? You too. Oh, right. Oh, he was a bit tall. You out on a social media.
[02:22:18] You're one of those guys. You have social media. But you're always on private. You're that guy.
[02:22:21] But I stand corrected. He's a murderer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I did it. I did it. What do you think?
[02:22:27] Well, you think you're going to make an Instagram? Or do you have no interest in it whatsoever?
[02:22:32] That has been my main thought regarding social media. I mean, like, just the idea of like,
[02:22:38] let me take a picture and put it online and show everybody what I'm doing. I just, I don't have
[02:22:44] no really, um, no affinity to do that. It's a, I had a, um, Facebook page. I started. I actually
[02:22:53] opened it up and then I never touched it again. I was having a weird conversation with my two daughters
[02:22:58] the other day. Sure. And, um, what they were, they were basically saying they don't like Instagram.
[02:23:04] Because, and it's, you know how you hear people say like, oh, it's comparative. You know,
[02:23:09] you compare, you end up comparing yourself with other people. Yeah. And, oh, Instagram. Yeah.
[02:23:13] Yeah. Oh, you compare with us. You compare with that. You compare with, you're basically
[02:23:18] comparing your life with the absolute best view that everyone else has of their own life. Yeah.
[02:23:25] You know, that they're posing in front of the Lambo or whatever, in order to look cool. And,
[02:23:32] and I, I got admit, I don't really think of that. You know what I mean? I don't really think like,
[02:23:36] I'm not really out comparing, I mean, but probably because I'm like almost 50 years old and there's, you
[02:23:42] know, it's kind of like an old man that doesn't care anymore. But, you know, when you're younger,
[02:23:47] you're like, wait a second. How is that person? How's that other person? That's my age or a little
[02:23:53] younger, a little older? How they have this amazing situation going on and I'm over here, you know,
[02:23:57] with not an amazing situation. Yeah. So, I'm not worried about you getting caught in that trap,
[02:24:03] yeah. You don't seem like a kid. I think you'll be okay. Yeah. Yeah. So Instagram, that's the one you just
[02:24:09] put up. Yeah, you take a, you can put, you can put words under it, too. You know, you can film videos.
[02:24:15] The videos can be 10 minutes long. There's something called IGTV. Expert over here. It's good.
[02:24:24] So I'm feeling like pretty sad right now. You're explaining social media. Yeah. Well,
[02:24:31] the funny, the really funny thing is when I got on this path, God, I hate even using that word.
[02:24:37] I started social media, Tim Ferris, when I got done with interviewing with Tim Ferris,
[02:24:44] he's like, do you have social media like no? He's like, you should get up like no.
[02:24:50] And he goes, you really need to get it. And I said, kind of like, okay, I mean, he's a,
[02:24:53] a really smart guy and does really well with what he does. I mean, amazingly successful guy.
[02:24:58] And just cool for our work. Yes. Yeah. So he's telling me, like you got a guy that's done what
[02:25:03] Tim's done. And I'm just becoming a civilian kind of and he goes, yeah, you need to get Twitter.
[02:25:09] He goes, just get it. And I said, he said, I'll show you how to use it. He never showed me anything.
[02:25:14] But the good thing is, you know, what he knew that I didn't know is that you, there's nothing
[02:25:18] to show. Like this is how you make it work. You put up put little words in here. And the thing
[02:25:24] that you'll find interesting, I guess if it's using the right way, I mean, I've made all kinds of
[02:25:28] incredible connections through social media. All kinds, I mean, I would say 50% of the guests on this
[02:25:35] podcast and I've had some amazing guests were through social media. They DM, door, they email,
[02:25:42] door, they contact or whatever. And I'm talking, I'm getting World War II veterans on here.
[02:25:47] And and Vietnam, that's, I mean, incredible people that it's an honor to be able to have
[02:25:52] monitor. A lot of them come from social media. So it's a great tool. It's a great way to communicate
[02:25:58] with other people and just like everything else in the world, if you do it, if you go too far
[02:26:04] with it, it can absolutely turn into a negative. Yes. And there's some pitfalls to like people
[02:26:09] will tell you stuff on social media that they would never tell to your face just every day.
[02:26:14] Oh, oh, it's actually smack talkers. Yeah, what a yeah exactly. Yeah. So there's that. If you go in
[02:26:20] knowing that, okay, that's the thing. Then you might not hit the some of the people did. Have you ever
[02:26:27] had an a hobby before? Yeah, it's like a hobby. Never have a spiderbook. Yeah, come on. Okay, so
[02:26:34] so let's say your hobby is knitting, right? And you get home and you're like, okay, I'm gonna knit
[02:26:39] some yarns or whatever. And that's kind of your thing. There's some people. They're hobby. What they
[02:26:46] do for fun is get on social media and try and basically terrorize other people. Yeah, trolling.
[02:26:54] I understand all of that stuff. Yeah. When it's just like, I've just never felt like I want to do that.
[02:26:59] Yeah. Like let me take a picture of myself and then post it for everybody in the world who
[02:27:05] stop looking at it. It just seems like a weird idea to me. Yeah. Yeah. And in that way, it is. It is
[02:27:10] what I see. It's a change in society. It kind of almost takes away anonymity. You
[02:27:19] everyone's a star in a sense. Yeah, if you put that way for a while. Yeah, but a lot of times,
[02:27:25] like if you have a business or something, right? And you know how, like you're like, okay, I want to
[02:27:29] go to this, I don't know, chicken restaurant or something, or maybe even a place where maybe
[02:27:34] the experience there is more significant, like, you know, a martial arts place or whatever. And,
[02:27:40] you know, you can go to Yelp or, I don't know, old school, go yellow pages, whatever. And you
[02:27:44] have the number of how to have a... We're talking about yellow pages right now. Maybe you have a
[02:27:48] movie. And you know, they're like, okay, well, now I got to drive down there to just to check it out.
[02:27:52] I'm not even committed to, you know, so if you have an Instagram, for example, you know, you can see pictures
[02:27:58] of the place. You can see descriptions. You can see comments of people that, you know,
[02:28:02] may or may not like it or whatever. So you can, you know, it is useful in a lot of different ways
[02:28:07] other than everyone trying to be a star, even though I think that's one of the more prevalent
[02:28:11] uses for Instagram. By the way, you know, it is the whole thing is you don't have to post a picture of
[02:28:16] yourself. No, exactly. You can post a picture of a knife or a picture of a wall or a picture of a
[02:28:23] plant or a picture of a star or a watch or a single single. Yeah, or whatever you're going to do,
[02:28:29] you can just do that. So you don't have to necessarily, you know, just pose for pictures for
[02:28:37] yourself with your shirt off or whatever. Yeah, flexing. You know, how you get some time. But yeah,
[02:28:44] that's one thing. But you are right though, that is true. But then again, you know, what if you posted
[02:28:49] this one, let's say you're doing a seminar, you post one picture of the cool picture of the seminar,
[02:28:53] whatever, and then someone's like, hey, you know, your shoulders look real solid. You've been working on
[02:28:58] something. You've been like, oh, yeah, got that feel like that. So the next one, you might be
[02:29:02] a little bit more compelled to let me post a picture with me, maybe like in some good lighting or something.
[02:29:07] And then the comments start rolling. He seems that you see the slippery slope. But then there's someone
[02:29:11] that says, uh, yeah, but he's got skinny wrists. Right? And then all of a sudden you're trying to
[02:29:19] wrist work out. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Me and then of course that guy's now your enemy because he's talking
[02:29:23] trash to you know, so you're now you're back and forth with him and now you got to check to see what your
[02:29:27] friend said about that guy saying, you know, so it's a thing. You know, you got to watch out for that
[02:29:31] kind of stuff. I think you'll be on that. It's like in a sense like a public record, because that is certain point
[02:29:38] right your dead. But the real stuff is still there. It's like a record. Maybe a hundred years from now,
[02:29:44] they can access. Who was this person? What was this person like? Well, they into it's like historical
[02:29:50] account of individuals. Yeah, no doubt about it. It's really a fall in Terry. Yeah. Yeah. I got some friends
[02:29:56] that have died and their social media pages are there and I'm so happy that their social media pages are
[02:30:02] there because it's like, I can go on there. Still a lot. Yeah. Still hang out a little bit, you know,
[02:30:07] so there's definitely a positive in that regard. Yeah. Was that your question? I can't even remember
[02:30:14] what your question was. Oh, actually, you know what my question was? K, remember when you were doing
[02:30:18] the eight pull-ups, the pull-ups and you were like, I got the eight, like, almost got what's the
[02:30:22] qualifying thing for pull-ups? How many did you have to get back then was eight? Oh, okay. So you had to do
[02:30:27] 42 push-ups, 50 sit-ups, eight pull-ups. Then you had to run a mile and a half in boots and long paths
[02:30:35] for, I think, 12 minutes and 30 seconds. And then you had to run, you had to swim,
[02:30:41] use inside stroke or breast stroke, all 500 meters. I think in the same time, like 12 minutes and 30 seconds,
[02:30:48] and something like that. And this is all in one go or is it like day one you do the same thing,
[02:30:53] so like one FTO, so this swims usually first, then the calistening stuff and then the run at the end.
[02:31:01] Gotcha. Yeah, and that, those, those, that level of qualification is so not prepared. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:31:11] Like if you're guys sitting there going, what, I can do eight pull-ups and then you're totally wrong.
[02:31:15] You're going to get destroyed. If you take you 11 minutes and 30 seconds or whatever,
[02:31:20] run in a mile and a half and you think you're going to make it through Buds, you're not even close.
[02:31:23] Yeah. I mean, back in the day and I'm surprised they haven't changed it. And they have changed it.
[02:31:28] Now like once you're in the pipeline, you compete against everyone else. So the way it works,
[02:31:36] now Jeff is when you get to Buds in order to go into a class, they give everyone in the class,
[02:31:42] a screening, a physical screening test, the top 165 people go. If you don't make it,
[02:31:48] you don't go into class. And if you don't make it, I think two times you're done.
[02:31:52] So it's a competition just to get into class. See who gets the best score. So eight pull-ups and get
[02:31:58] you know where. Is it like the enhanced screening test? Because I remember getting a budget,
[02:32:02] you got another screening test when I, in seven, four, where everything was higher. Like 75
[02:32:08] push ups and I don't know. Like 12 pull-ups or something like that. I just know it's a competition.
[02:32:15] So the max, the minimum fluctuates because if there's a bunch of studs in your class
[02:32:20] and you're not going to pull-ups, they're like, oh yeah, sorry, you're not in class.
[02:32:22] Yeah, it's like later. They're crazy thing is no matter what they do to those standards,
[02:32:28] the same number of people quit. It's the weirdest thing. It's the cold water.
[02:32:34] It's definitely the cold water. The cold water, the lack of oxygen.
[02:32:38] And the sleep. And the lack of sleep. And then those are that right. There is 90% of the
[02:32:45] quitters, I think. Then you have some people that, you know, whatever they got some weird,
[02:32:51] they'll get in their head psychologically and they'll just, yeah.
[02:32:58] They look, man, you know, you've got to recognize that they're going to try and make you quit.
[02:33:03] So if they see some kind of weakness, they see they can trip you up. And they might
[02:33:08] be like, hey, here's the thing. Eagle upper eagle down. You know, they might be like, hey,
[02:33:11] no one's going to want to have you on this in a poll tune. Listen, man.
[02:33:15] You seem like a good guy, right? A little eagle up. But if you want to put it to,
[02:33:18] if you're in a team, I wouldn't want to work with you. You don't look like you can carry your weight.
[02:33:22] And like you're actually by staying here. You're at the rest of your boat crew.
[02:33:27] You're putting them at risk in the sealed teams.
[02:33:31] So even if you're a good, hard person that has good intent, you want to take care of your teammates.
[02:33:35] Okay, it's the best thing you can do to take care of your teammates right now. It's quit.
[02:33:38] Jam, you know, mentally for sure. So they're going to figure out a common at you.
[02:33:43] And when you're cold, wet and tired, and that's the other thing. You see, you know, people,
[02:33:49] when you're cold, wet and tired, man, those are options. There's option start popping up
[02:33:54] and people's heads. And they start, you know, maybe they weren't thinking about it. But now they're
[02:33:59] thinking, well, I really don't want to let my teammates down and that hot cocoa looks good over there.
[02:34:05] I'm going to go get me some hot cocoa. That's what we had in our class. Swiss Miss hot cocoa
[02:34:11] and crispy cream donuts. Oh, that's the good one. And electric blanket.
[02:34:15] Yeah, if you quit. Sitting on the beach. So you're sitting in 58 degree water,
[02:34:22] jack hammering freezing cold. And there's some quitter up there with an electric blanket on
[02:34:28] and a hot cup of cocoa. They're calling you out. I laughed at that craziness.
[02:34:35] If it's so you, so if like that quitter, he doesn't just go. He doesn't just leave. He's still there.
[02:34:40] They're, they're, they make us, they make a positive spectacle out of it. Yeah, well, he's a
[02:34:45] thing though. And they treat them like a bro too. They're not harsh on them. Okay. They're not like,
[02:34:49] they're not like, they're not like, they're not like, they're not like, they're all get over your
[02:34:51] quitter. They're like, it's okay. Yeah. They're taking a run on the whole side. Absolutely. To me,
[02:34:55] that's the worst part right there. Because if you're just like, oh yeah, here's all the
[02:34:59] quitters on display. Look at them enjoying their hot cocoa. It kind of creates this divide. Like,
[02:35:03] bro, I don't want to be that guy. It looks nice. No, I want to be that guy. That guy's,
[02:35:07] like, I was actually, you know, he's a good guy. Yeah, he's a good guy. He made a decision.
[02:35:12] Yeah, he made, you know, and it's probably a good decision. It's good decision for the teams.
[02:35:16] He really cares about the teams because he doesn't want to bring the teams down. Not like you.
[02:35:20] Oh, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, trying to hurt the teams. See, I think I understand you a little bit more
[02:35:26] now. It's a little bit. I get it. Check. All right. So, um, I guess we're all probably going to start training
[02:35:34] to GGC if we're not already. Yes. I guess we're probably going to be swinging some cattle bells
[02:35:38] working out trying to get better trying to humanize each other. Yes. We're just moving in a positive
[02:35:43] direction. Yes, sir. What do you got for a second? Well, we're going to keep ourselves in the game
[02:35:48] with what jockel fuel supplements supplementation important, you know, especially when your body
[02:35:52] starts falling apart, right? Okay. Join more for real oil. Super, real oil.
[02:35:58] Join, stick it up. You're joined. It's going to go out. You're going to be thinking, you know what?
[02:36:01] You're taking the real oil and join more. We know super, super cool. Yes, sir. Because the
[02:36:05] real, real oil is made with a regular acrylic. Regular acrylic has not been screened. Super
[02:36:11] cool. They made it through the training and they're ready to hook you up. It makes sense to get to don't get regular
[02:36:17] acrylic. Get your sauce on super, bro. Yes, sir. Also discipline both kinds of discipline by the way.
[02:36:24] The supplement discipline, okay, for your brain, or your body too, but you know, all these things
[02:36:28] they're going to keep you in the game. Big time. You did too or otherwise. So Jeff, COVID. Before
[02:36:37] at the end of January, I went to Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Washington, DC,
[02:36:46] and Austin, Texas and in each one of those locations, I shook hands with one to two thousand people
[02:36:51] and bro hugged 50% of those people. I did not get COVID. Matter of fact, it never even like
[02:36:58] it never even got after my immune system at all. I got the test. I'm not saying that it's like this
[02:37:08] genetic thing, but it's now proven that if you're healthy, right? If you work out, yes,
[02:37:18] if you eat clean, yes, if you take vitamin D, also discipline, back to the discipline thing,
[02:37:25] we do have cans of discipline. RTD cans. Stands for ready to drink in the industry. Yes, sir.
[02:37:34] Those are good. Those are the, I'd say actually in one problem on both, on beyond,
[02:37:38] through the, um, the cans and the powder. Yeah, there's something really good about just cracking
[02:37:42] up at a cold can. It's true. And oh, yeah, Pete, guys, thanks for the refrigerator by the way. I mean,
[02:37:48] you know, Jockel's head is on it, which, you know, makes you motions about that whole thing, but overall
[02:37:52] good, big hit at my house. Bradley sent me this refrigerator with Jockel's head face on the refrigerator.
[02:38:00] Very strange. You want to talk about like strange times. COVID strange, right? The world strange. We
[02:38:06] got strange people running for president when your head starts showing up on your friends,
[02:38:10] refrigerators. That's some strange times. That's some strange times. Yes, it is. Get some milk.
[02:38:16] Get some protein in you. Proteins better than protein for protein, which by the way, the,
[02:38:22] have you tried the protein that I make, Jeff? Because if you haven't tried it,
[02:38:26] it's 100% guaranteed to stop Spanish flu. It's cool. It's a guaranteed, to stop Spanish flu.
[02:38:33] It's the lab tested. The whole night, it's, you left to worry about it. I want to lose.
[02:38:39] Was it, was it made of? Uh, well, it's, I don't know all the ingredients, but I will tell you this.
[02:38:45] It's clean protein in the form of a dessert. That's what I do. No, I don't know the ingredients. We
[02:38:49] can have to contact Brian. We're even what's the fade out of. I'm one of those wacky vegans.
[02:38:54] Oh, okay. Yeah, you're not good because it nox is got a cascading. It's got the milk protein in it.
[02:38:59] It's got that and egg protein. So you're just out across the board. Yeah. You're going to have to,
[02:39:05] well, you're going to have to eat something else. Which is why do get COVID. I want to
[02:39:11] Canada stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You'll go out and style. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:39:19] So T, Jocco 8T. Yeah. Who wants something a little lighter? That's something that I like that.
[02:39:23] Yeah. And you know, since you are vegan, it's not only vegan, but it's also organic.
[02:39:28] It's sort of certified organic. You see, think I'm playing around over here? I got your back
[02:39:32] bro. I got you back. Rig time. I'm going to stop you from catching Spanish flu. Probably we
[02:39:38] prevent COVID from getting in your system and I'm going to protect your vegan rights right over here.
[02:39:43] Yes. Is there such thing in vegan rights? It's just regular rights, right? Yeah. Yes, sir.
[02:39:48] Isn't vegan rights a thing? I do not know if but I don't know. Maybe we could start a movement.
[02:39:54] Anyway. So, is vegan rights a thing? Not that I know. Okay. Oh, man. Just like there's no
[02:40:02] keto rights. There's no other dietary, uh, philosophy. Strong and argument. That's a strong and
[02:40:07] argument. No, it's not vegan is a uh, dietary. There's a philosophy behind it for sure. Oh yeah,
[02:40:15] 100% I dig it to, but I don't think you can choose that kind of philosophy and then gain sort of,
[02:40:22] you know, more rights or lose rights for that matter. I'm going to start a keto right
[02:40:28] move it. All right. I'm going to pay leo rights over here. Right on straight up. I know. I got to
[02:40:32] start pay leo first. Yeah. Anyway, we get a thing. Do you just do it right? By the way,
[02:40:37] everything if we just talk about you can get on origin main.com or you can get it at the
[02:40:41] vitamin shop. Yes, sir. The vitamin shop. B. What was the first one? Origin main.com. Origin main.com.
[02:40:47] Yep. Main like the state state. The state of Maine. Origin main. Yeah. Because of your origins. Yes.
[02:40:54] Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. Also at origin main.com.
[02:41:00] You did to geese and rashguards. Okay. These geese and rashguards are made 100% in America. 100%
[02:41:06] even the cotton that they grow to form the material. Even that grown in America. 100% 100%
[02:41:13] it's a big deal. So yeah, when we go back to gejitsu, we need a new geef. You don't have one already.
[02:41:17] Even if you do have one. Grab a original. Yeah. That's why you know one thing about
[02:41:22] gejitsu, I wanted to say to for all those people who are like sweating a load about, you know,
[02:41:27] I haven't trained in a while. You know, I had an injury from the military that just got worse
[02:41:34] to introduce you. My neck got hurt really badly. So I was supposed to get fusion on a C5 to C7
[02:41:42] and I was out for two years. I just didn't train. So when you come back, you know, gejitsu is not
[02:41:49] going away. So when you come back, you will get better. All those techniques you've been working on,
[02:41:54] that stuff's kind of just gestating in your mind, mixing and matching and forming into new things.
[02:42:00] You'll be better once you get your conditioning back. Yeah. Don't do not sweat. Like a lot of
[02:42:05] people are like, I'm looking at these. I haven't trained in a while. Yeah. But the conditioning thing
[02:42:10] that's going to be a thing, especially if you like to go hard, right? You're going to jump back
[02:42:14] in there, try to go hard and you're going to get when you come back, come back smart. Just
[02:42:18] nice to slow easy get it back to it. And I think it's also while you're not rolling,
[02:42:24] do your conditioning. You know, it is a lifestyle. You eat right, train right. You know,
[02:42:29] you've got to have your conditioning going on. So you should be doing that. In other words, stay on
[02:42:33] the path. And also when you come back, you don't necessarily have to ramp it up. You could just go
[02:42:37] 17 rounds death matches, come and get it. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, get origin gear. If you, uh,
[02:42:47] you know, when you get back into it, if you haven't already got back to it. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:42:51] Anyway, a lot of stuff on there, originating.com boots boots jeans. Oh yeah. T shirts all
[02:42:57] ain't in America in the good old US of a. Also, jocquoise store called jocquoise store.
[02:43:05] merchandise super original. Yeah. Creative. I like there for whatever. But hey, man, it works
[02:43:12] jocquoise store. Easy to remember. That's where you can get a T shirts, discipline equals freedom.
[02:43:18] You know, this one that I got on good, you know, represent, you know, a lot of cool stuff on
[02:43:22] that side. I got on. Yeah. Deathcore all day to the core all day. All day. Oh, yeah.
[02:43:29] Talk with sort of coming to like something, amen. Get something. Also, subscribe to this podcast.
[02:43:34] You can subscribe to wherever you can leave a review. We will laugh at your review if it's funny.
[02:43:37] And if it's cool. And if it's not funny, it's not cool. It doesn't have any layers. Well,
[02:43:42] we appreciate it. It's cool. Still, we're still cool. Do you like, like,
[02:43:47] when you're looking at comments and stuff, you get a lot of, do you get some negative stuff, like,
[02:43:52] people for it to fire it up on you? For this podcast, almost none. It's really cool. Everyone's
[02:43:58] super stoked on it. But yeah, you know, some people give some feedback that might be considered negative,
[02:44:03] but I look at it with an open mind. And I say, hmm, maybe there's some adjustments I could make.
[02:44:08] Maybe I could do a better job. We also got the thread. We're almost out with a new thread
[02:44:13] with a new name and all that stuff. I'll let you know, grounded podcast where we talk about
[02:44:16] suggestions, or your kid podcast where we talk about being a warrior kid. Don't forget with
[02:44:20] a warrior kid soap, including killer soap. I was so, I was so ramps. Ranch.com or on the
[02:44:27] Jocquist or website. You can get yourself some soap. So you and everyone that you know,
[02:44:34] get to clean. It's dangerous.
[02:44:40] Ah, that's your face. Oh, that's your face. So the byline is, is what's this called? The standard operating
[02:44:49] procedure is I do a little bit of a build up. And then I say, stay clean. And you just took my byline.
[02:44:56] Yeah, man. So normally I would say, hey, so everyone, so you, everyone, and you and your family can
[02:45:02] stay clean. And echo usually goes like this. But you took the glory. Yeah, man. All good. I like it.
[02:45:09] And you said get clean, which is also, you know, the precursor to staying clean. Yes,
[02:45:14] yeah, the first those of us who are not clean quite yet. And I'm going down a quick. So yeah,
[02:45:20] we got a bunch of podcasts. We got a YouTube channel that you can subscribe to. If you want to see
[02:45:24] echoes, if you haven't seen this yet, Jeff echo puts ridiculously crazy amounts of explosions
[02:45:31] and fire and terminator heads into his videos because he's all into, you know, whatever that's
[02:45:38] called CGI. Why just watch the terminator the other day? And that was what I studied in school to.
[02:45:45] What terminator video terminator. I am amateur media arch degree. So my specialization was
[02:45:52] the reading animation. Oh, my and lightweight and digital video. So video editing, compositing,
[02:46:01] and stuff like that. Humble back. Humble back. I think it's kind of like, um, you know,
[02:46:09] the enlisted guy that doesn't like the officers because they think they know what they're talking
[02:46:13] about because they went to college. He just, he just, I felt it. Whatever. I felt it. I even
[02:46:19] exude that at all on like respect. I, you know, he's a peer. We're peers in that way. Oh,
[02:46:24] more. We're peers now. That degree you have done mean anything. Apparently we're peers. See how I
[02:46:31] like the instigate. Yes, sir. I do call it. So we got a YouTube channel. We got psychological warfare.
[02:46:35] We got flipside canvas.com. We can get visual representation of the path. We got a bunch of books
[02:46:40] to code. Leadership strategy and tactics. We're the work at 1, 2, and 3.
[02:46:44] Mikey in the dragons. Dispening goes freedom field manual. Extreme ownership of the
[02:46:48] dichotomy leadership. Escelon front. My leadership consultancy. EF online.com. If you want to
[02:46:54] talk to me and hang out with me and hang out with everyone on the Escelon front team. Go to EF online.
[02:46:58] .com and come and ask questions. We solve leadership's leadership problems. That's what we do every
[02:47:05] day. Come and check it out. We're on there. EF online.com. The mustard coming up Phoenix Arizona
[02:47:12] September 16th and 17th and Dallas Texas December 3rd and 4th Extreme ownership.com for details.
[02:47:18] We do. We usually do an introduction to GJ2 at those things. I'm not sure what's going to be
[02:47:24] happening because of the current COVID environment. Because you know what? Jeff, you know what we do?
[02:47:30] What? We try and be smart. Yeah. So we're going to try and be smart. And we may or may not do that.
[02:47:35] EF overwatch if you need people leaders at your team. Go to EF overwatch.com where we take
[02:47:44] leaders that understand the principles that we talk about on this podcast and they can take them
[02:47:48] and bring them to your organization. Also America's mighty warriors dot org. Mamali. That's Mark
[02:47:56] Rizma and she has been on a mission. Since she lost her son on a mission to help service members
[02:48:05] their families, Gold Star families around the world. If you want to donate or you want to get involved
[02:48:10] go to americasmidewargers.org and if you haven't had enough of my plotting platitudes or you need
[02:48:20] more of Ecos misplaced mentions. Then you can find us on the interwebs. On Twitter, Instagram and
[02:48:29] on Facebook, Ecos, Adeclacharals, I am at Jocquawilik. Jeff is going to make some kind of social media
[02:48:37] of some kind. And we will tag him and he's going to post a picture of his face.
[02:48:45] Yeah. Yeah. If you want to YouTube, if you want to see what Jeff looks like on YouTube,
[02:48:49] you can come on here and check him out. We probably already know what Ecos looks like.
[02:48:53] And apparently Ecos Charles does not look like he sounds. You know what's pretty funny about
[02:48:58] that is I do have a client that I do a private with. And I don't think he's ever seen the YouTube
[02:49:04] channel. He just watches. He just listens to the podcast and he's like he doesn't think he
[02:49:12] doesn't has no idea what you look like. And he's like he thinks that I think he thinks you're
[02:49:16] kind of a small guy. Yeah. I said that before for sure. Apparently Ecos Charles sounds like a
[02:49:22] skinny white boy. Hipster. Hipster is often. He's like this. Yeah. Pretty hip. I guess. But yeah.
[02:49:29] That does not surprise me. I said no. I said, Craig man, this guy is pretty big guy.
[02:49:40] Yeah. So we'll get that. We'll get your social media. We'll figure it out. Hopefully,
[02:49:43] if not, we'll get you an email. And if not, we will find an address that people can write you letters
[02:49:49] too. You can mail your P-O-P-O-Box. Yeah. And if not, we can get smoke signals going with you.
[02:49:56] To Jeff fix Jeff, you got any last words. Yeah. First and foremost, thanks for having me on.
[02:50:03] I really appreciate it. And I do want to say thanks to a family.
[02:50:09] Fabio for showing me and you just to teach me all my training partners and Steve.
[02:50:19] I will kind of leave that a little bit anonymous there, but big change in my life from him.
[02:50:25] And also James Harrison, who was my father's friend, and really kind of was a mentor to me.
[02:50:32] And gave me kind of instilled discipline to me on what it takes to overcome your life's difficulties.
[02:50:44] Yeah. That's awesome. And that just, it's a great reminder that when you're going through life,
[02:50:53] if you make a little effort, make a little effort to help somebody out. You can actually change
[02:51:00] the trajectory of their entire life. And we all have people like that that did those things along
[02:51:07] the way. And clearly, that's a great example. So be cool to people, help them out.
[02:51:17] And with that, thanks Jeff for coming on. Thanks for your service and the team, obviously.
[02:51:24] Your dedication to Jiu Jitsu and thanks for being my brother for the last 30 years. And like,
[02:51:35] hopefully we can squeeze out another 30. Yeah, I'm sure we will. But there's no guarantees as you want
[02:51:43] said to me. This is true. Time will tell. And to everyone else that has served or is serving.
[02:51:52] Thank you for keeping the world safe for freedom into the police and law enforcement out there.
[02:52:00] Firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service.
[02:52:07] Thanks to all of you for holding the line. Despite low pay and high risk,
[02:52:14] despite the lack of appreciation that you receive.
[02:52:18] Know that most of us are grateful for what you do to keep us safe. And to everyone else out there,
[02:52:27] just remember that life is not easy at all. There's going to be challenges.
[02:52:36] You're going to get beat down. There will be punishment. And you will fail sometimes.
[02:52:43] And that's okay. That's okay as long as you get back up. And no matter what, remember what my
[02:52:54] brother Jeff Higgs says simply do not quit. And until next time, this is Jeff Higgs,
[02:53:05] Reneko, and Jockel out.