Jocko Podcast 228 w Dave Berke. Put Pressure on Your Mind. Be Your General. Be Your Soldiers MCDP 7

2020-05-07T01:48:34Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @davidrberke 0:00:00 - Opening 0:35:49 - MCDP 7, Learning Pt.2  2:24:53 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:40:25 - How to stay on THE PATH. 3:06:46 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

and I'm thinking you get 200% where you know those guys where it's like man what they don't want to roll with certain guys You know like it's everyone sees it everyone sees what you're doing Marines mitigate weaknesses by leveraging their strengths to form new understanding and focus on learning to eliminate gaps This can only occur when learners first acknowledge their weaknesses and resolve to leverage their strengths to build meaningful connections Should we make a poster that says that you know I mean like just so important and so seemingly obvious and once again You wonder why someone would have to take something so seemingly obvious and put it into a book It's because even though it's seemingly obvious it's hard for people to do Next section is called the expeditionary nature of learning Marines recognize that to be effective war fighters They must be warrior scholars They must seize initiative to study the profession of arms whenever and wherever learning opportunities arise And once again, I like I like how the the Marine Corps manuals just state things as a matter of fact If you're a Marine then you obviously recognize that you need to be a warrior scholar. And it's talking about force on force exercises to simulate wars complexity force on force exercises are purpose driven learning environments that are approximate the complexity of war When developing such exercises Marines focus on designs that enhance problem solving and promote decision forcing events This enables Marines to practice and better understand how to get inside the enemies decision making process There is no substitute for fighting against a competent realistic thinking adaptive enemy Even if that enemy is simulated by other Marines this practice ensures that challenging learning environments provide a place to practice Develop experience allow errors adapt and learn how to fight and win That's the very premise of top gun need this to say That is the very premise of top gun that is the very premise of the advanced seal training where you are in fact fighting against other seals all the time And what's What might be hard for people to grasp and you might even be able to have a more linear exposure to this I could watch a young seal officer Get better at decision making events I could watch a young seal get better at being in chaotic situations Taking a step back, detaching, looking around, figuring out what the possibilities are, choosing a course of action, executing it I could watch someone get better at that It's hard to It can be hard to quantify what that Like what that actually looks like You're going to be ready you're going to be primed you're going to be thinking you're going to be looking for an exit you're going to be looking for an entrance you're going to see what is we're going to size up your target all that's going to happen the second you walk in there if you're not expecting it all it doesn't happen at all. I'd have this feeling like I'm never going to get out of this like situation and I'm probably going to die under here kind of thing but if you're like one time this is what you did you were like. He kept like to and the kind like flagrantly taking like 20 30 seconds to tie his belt they did like six times that's a training time out to the only thing about I think a training time out. They can't do anything you know how many guys I had tonight out of out fighting you how many four you know how many had last night four you know how many had the night before four no change in the number of opt for you're going against What's what's changing is your ability to lead is your your team your subordinate leaders ability to step up and make things happen Your ability to give good guidance your ability to make decisions your ability for your team members to make good decisions because that's the other thing that makes it really drastic is as Eight fire team leaders all of a sudden you know when when they show up two of them are kind of proactively making things happen and then it becomes three It's going to shake out of your hair Is there learning environments there's not a single correct design for creating the ideal learning environment because each learning objective Marine team and condition will differ therefore Marines modify learning environment to most effectively meet their the learners needs and reflect the conditions that they expect to encounter Effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought reasoning and the creation of the potential solutions to the problems and encourages Marines to explore alternative courses of action I had to highlight that part because effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought reasoning and the creation of potential So that so if at top gone what you did was said Okay, Bill on this run you're going to go up you're going to do this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver but eventually you got to figure out what maneuver you're going to do when you're going to do it how long you're going to do it for what's your next maneuver going to be Yeah, and what little change is you're going to make to that maneuver in real time because it's not going to be the road application of that maneuver I come out, you know, let's let them come out naturally so they can kind of, you know, through their own evolution kind of manifest themselves kind of thing, you know, and I think after thinking about it, it's like, man, I don't know if that's the best way. So to me I just worked on being that way the whole time 100% at the time because it's easier to like deprive than it is to like prime one year like laid on the priming kind of thing situation in one of the situation arises you know. The most claustrophobic I would get from you is one like you'd be pinning me down and it seemed like this was part of your like tactic to like slowly submit me like. you learn It's going to be a variation of that Trying to expand people's brains and Effective learning in back to the book and effective learning environment enables marines to clearly understand the intended war fighting doctrine concepts tactics techniques procedures and learning outcomes It clearly identifies the expectation for the learners Whether exercising marines critical thinking in problem solving skills or understanding circumstances where a medi'd obedience to orders or Application of specific basic skills such as good marksmanship are required so there's times where you are going to just straight up say Roger that got it I can be like hey like I respect you but this seems like kind of dangerous I'm not kind of training with you specific that's a training time out really. So you can introduce this concept early on and then you know as you evolved in in fighter aviation we have the knock it off which is actually kind of like in someone is kind of like tapping so I can do this fight with you and we're finally if I get to a point where I feel like. And I didn't really think about it, and there is no way I would have thought, could what we were doing now Somehow be helpful somewhere else down the line other than rebased line and Top Gun training for this next aircraft That's what I thought we were doing, that is not what we were doing There was so much more going on there, and the squeezing of my brain is trying to create a much larger context For all these things that I did in those 23 years that I look back and I'm like, dude, if you want this to be useful, you have to think about it a lot more hey you did what you did you did what you did look you're going to be going in the house as you've never been in before that's the whole goal of this that you can go in a room you've never been before and you're going to react how you react we need to understand why you're reacting that way if it's if there's a better way to do it let's think about it. How can you get yourself primed you know I talk about leadership strategy and tactics there's a list of 12 things to do as a leader and like look you can't read this list of 12 things to be like okay good cool now. but I'm telling you I'm trying to tell you what it looks like It looked like this why I think you might be able to give a better example You'd see a young seal day one going through land warfare training Yeah, that makes sense because it's like, you know, that's the whole thing with like, like sandbags. is that we do not gain all our experience at once, but by degrees So our determinations continue to be assailed, incessantly, by fresh experience And the mind, if we may use the expression, must always be under arms So new things are going to come about and you got to be, he's using, he's using kind of a different metaphor I'm saying keep your mind open, he's like you got to be ready ready to adapt, keep your mind under pressure There's a gap that you got to be able to fill that's that's what this is all about the gap is I'm I can get primed for so much I can think about what I'm going to do and how I'm going to act and I'm going to make this call and if somebody confronts my ego I'm going to detach but then. You're going to get you're going to get you're going to do that but just by asking the question and you and I almost knew what you're going to say was hey just tell me why you did that it doesn't mean that they're still right. Think about that, just think about that concept in GJ2 When you get, when you get immobilized, you are on the way to defeat the minute that you can no longer move, you are on your way to defeat Well, on the battlefield, if you can't maneuver anymore, if you dig in and you can't move, you're on your way to defeat, and mentally, if you close your mind and you stop thinking and seeing other perspectives and keeping an open mind, you are on your way to defeat So when you start taking these and seeing them in other areas, it opens your mind up, it frees your mind in so many different ways and that is learning, that's what it is All right, little preamble You know you're going to have a high level you just to put your out of shape and you're going with the monster guy who's who's really good at you to get in the better you you're guessing you're like you're getting you can beat down is what Like if you can set it up that way that you're not trying to teach them advanced physics before, but when there's no application for it, but then when they get to a point where you can start to say, hey, you want to check out, you want to know what the tide's going to do. And how many how many aircraft how many sections would you go out roll out on on a. On a mission that you would train for a top gun and the reason I'm saying that like I like when you talk about and you have multiple aircraft like sort of the FTX scenario the final training exercises. Because I was saying hey you need to set yourself up for surprise things that you're not ready for you actually want to tell like if I want to get ready to defend myself and not freak out I need to tell echo hey man occasionally I want you to just attack me. I was like yelling, like pretending like I was going to yell at Jamie. You know, I was going to hang out and, you know, I guess maybe part of me when I'm kind of thinking back on that whole scenario or a scenario scenario's like it. I would essentially prime myself by doing this and a lot of people do do this they'll like tell me this they'll be like what would jacco do in the situation like anytime a stressful situation came up or decision had to be made they'll be well I would essentially prime myself like if something some stressful situation that's the rule like any stress that comes in some bigger small boom I'm the leader you just you have to essentially prime yourself into being like the leader and what's hard is. Section division a section that's right you'd break them down much like you know fire team squad things like that. but I was a guy kept going going going any kept like we're doing key Yeah and my mental state was kind of like this me gets you know if I'm against any claustrophobic situation like my mind that the battle is different. Although marine strive for learning efficiencies Improving the learning environment does not necessarily mean making it more efficient For example, though rope memorization or reciting fast can be very efficient and useful for developing basic knowledge such as memorizing standing orders They are not effective methods for all learning effective learning often requires approaching material from different perspectives Applying information in context and explaining how why accents occurred in addition to what occurred How many times echo Charles have you heard me say You learn an arm lock from a different professor and from different angles it will make your arm lock better And again it's a spectrum you can get like maybe 10 seconds training time out think about can do or you can give yourself maybe like a minute or guys used to do. It goes to the person who can adapt, who can make intelligent decisions and execute them quickly Skipping ahead in the progress in the progression of learning, training should provide marines with an opposing will to practice against Through repetition and a training environment marines loaned out think adversaries and over-completion Prior to encountering these factors during real world operations Therefore marines must integrate lessons learned from current and previous conflicts to adapt their learning environments, methods, assessments and feedback to reflect evolving threats Got a lot of questions about this one A lot of questions of how do I get my mind ready to do this? And if I just kind of go with the same way I've done it that little role with the ex I've got, like I'll just go back to module B coming like, well, module B doesn't always work for everybody. So that's I was actually I asked Laefals like maybe I should put some kind of negative numbering like you this could actually take you time to bake out to you.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 228 with Eccle Charles and me, Jockel Willing.
[00:00:07] Good evening, Eccle.
[00:00:08] Good evening.
[00:00:09] And also joining us tonight, once again, is Dave Burke.
[00:00:12] Good evening, Dave.
[00:00:13] Good evening.
[00:00:14] So we only got through the first two sections of the Marine Corps,
[00:00:17] Doctional Learning Publication.
[00:00:19] Last time, we're the Doctional Publication Learning.
[00:00:24] Last time.
[00:00:25] So we're going to finish it up today.
[00:00:27] And I must say that since we covered that, since I read this for the first time,
[00:00:35] I've been trying to pay attention to things from a learning perspective.
[00:00:40] Learning things.
[00:00:43] And I've actually talked to both of you about squeezing your brains.
[00:00:51] And we mentioned it on the last podcast, and we kind of bruised through it.
[00:00:56] Like, I think I just said, oh, yeah, I've been talking to you guys about squeezing your brains.
[00:00:59] Kind of breeze through it.
[00:01:00] Didn't really talk about what that actually means.
[00:01:02] So I wanted to, I wanted to kind of do a little discussion or dive into,
[00:01:08] What does that mean?
[00:01:09] What does it mean to squeeze your brain?
[00:01:10] Because it's important.
[00:01:13] It is so important to put pressure.
[00:01:18] The pressure, put the pressure on your brain on your thoughts on how you're thinking
[00:01:24] because that pressure creates heat and pressure in your mind,
[00:01:30] therefore creates energy.
[00:01:33] It creates ideas.
[00:01:35] And that is how we learn.
[00:01:40] That is how we get smarter.
[00:01:42] That is how we get better from that pressure.
[00:01:48] And it ties back into something from the discipline of course freedom field manual,
[00:01:53] which is question everything.
[00:01:56] Right?
[00:01:57] Question everything.
[00:01:59] No matter where it's coming from, question your own ideas,
[00:02:02] question other people's ideas, you got to have that mindset,
[00:02:05] that kind of rebellious mindset where you're always going to push back against things.
[00:02:08] And I'm not talking about just being a contrary and where Dave comes up with an idea and I say,
[00:02:12] well, what about this?
[00:02:13] I'm not talking about that.
[00:02:14] But I am talking about a subconscious dialogue that's happening,
[00:02:18] where that's, I would say, my original form of applying pressure to my mind
[00:02:26] was sitting there saying, is there a better way to do that?
[00:02:30] Is there, I'm not saying I'm going to confront you,
[00:02:32] but I'm thinking myself, is there a better way to do that?
[00:02:34] Am I wrong about it?
[00:02:35] If I come up with it, am I wrong about this idea?
[00:02:39] Is the tradition wrong?
[00:02:41] Is the way, you know, the complaint about,
[00:02:43] oh, this is how we all do it.
[00:02:45] And I'm constantly saying, well, just because we do it that way,
[00:02:48] is that tradition wrong?
[00:02:50] Is that standard wrong?
[00:02:52] And in order to answer those questions, in order to answer those questions,
[00:02:57] it puts pressure on your brain, it puts pressure on your mind.
[00:03:02] Because oftentimes the ideas that you're questioning,
[00:03:05] the ideas that you're questioning the standards that you're questioning,
[00:03:09] the tradition that you're questioning are things that have been around for a while.
[00:03:12] You've survived some level of pressure.
[00:03:16] So to think that you're going to come up with some new way is,
[00:03:20] it's a little bit ridiculous, but at the same time,
[00:03:25] you have to do it.
[00:03:28] You have to do it too, free your mind,
[00:03:32] which I used to post that on a pretty regular basis for you,
[00:03:38] but in order to free your mind,
[00:03:42] you actually have to add weight,
[00:03:44] you have to put a force on top of your mind and your ideas in order to,
[00:03:53] in order to squeeze out results in order to free it.
[00:04:01] And when you do that, then that's when you improve.
[00:04:05] And I'm not talking about the kind of,
[00:04:10] hey, you know, all the constant self-improvement, right?
[00:04:13] I'm not talking about, I'm actually getting better.
[00:04:15] I'm talking about actual answers to real answers to questions.
[00:04:20] Actually, we'll improve understanding of the world.
[00:04:26] Improved understanding of the world.
[00:04:32] So I've been talking about this day.
[00:04:37] And this is just kind of happening.
[00:04:41] I think I sense a light switch,
[00:04:45] flipper, whatever you want to call it.
[00:04:47] EF Online, you were coming up with sort of the discussion point for the day.
[00:04:55] And so EF Online is, we got a bunch of people coming on.
[00:04:59] They're interacting with us. It's a Zoom meeting,
[00:05:02] which I think the whole world is now familiar with.
[00:05:04] Zoom meeting. So we've expanded our online presence and we're really putting a lot of time and effort behind EF Online.
[00:05:12] And so we've been running these three times a week online community,
[00:05:17] brigade of people.
[00:05:19] And so you were, you were kind of leading the discussion on this particular one.
[00:05:24] And I think the question that spurned you to squeeze your brain a little bit was,
[00:05:28] how do you adapt to a changing world?
[00:05:31] And you went through this story about when you were in the Marine Corps,
[00:05:35] and when you were a top gun instructor,
[00:05:37] and what the Marine Corps was doing and what top gun was doing was preparing,
[00:05:41] being prepared to fight the Meg 29, the Meg 29 full-groom,
[00:05:47] which is an aircraft that is correct me from wrong.
[00:05:50] The full-groom is not as good as our aircraft.
[00:05:54] And not as good as an F-18.
[00:05:55] Yeah, that's right. F-14?
[00:05:57] Probably better than the F-14.
[00:05:58] So that's better than the F-14, but not as good as an F-18.
[00:06:01] Yep.
[00:06:02] And that's what you, when you went to top gun as a student,
[00:06:05] that's what they were telling you, okay, this is what you need to be prepared to fight.
[00:06:09] Yeah, the Meg 29, that's right.
[00:06:11] An aircraft that's not quite as good as yours.
[00:06:13] Not quite as good as your F-18.
[00:06:15] That's what they were telling you.
[00:06:17] So then you leave, and I get this right, you leave top gun school.
[00:06:21] And when you come back now to be the instructor, the senior instructor, eventually,
[00:06:29] the Russians had a new aircraft.
[00:06:31] Yeah, that's right.
[00:06:32] That was the SU-27 Flanker, which actually, I was excited to know,
[00:06:37] that happens to be my favorite bird.
[00:06:39] I like, have you ever seen that bird?
[00:06:40] No.
[00:06:41] It looks like a cobra that's getting ready to strike.
[00:06:46] It's just an awesome look in aircraft.
[00:06:48] And it was now this aircraft is better than an F-18.
[00:06:52] Yeah.
[00:06:53] Were you in for the F-14s at all?
[00:06:56] Yes.
[00:06:57] So I-
[00:06:57] So I-
[00:06:58] They phase out F-14s.
[00:06:59] So the last F-14 class at Top Gun was probably 2004,
[00:07:03] as when we phased him out.
[00:07:04] They probably flew a little bit in the fleet,
[00:07:05] but I was there as an instructor during the last Tomcat class.
[00:07:09] Correct me if I'm wrong.
[00:07:11] In my mind, the F-the Tomcat has always been the muscle car.
[00:07:17] The muscle car of the fighter jets.
[00:07:21] Yeah, it's like an iconic muscle machine.
[00:07:24] For tuning, I've got a lot of power.
[00:07:26] Yep.
[00:07:27] I can go fast.
[00:07:28] Yep.
[00:07:29] I'm not going to corner a great, right?
[00:07:31] Yeah, it's a more of a brute force machine,
[00:07:33] really fast, really cool airplane,
[00:07:35] but a little bit dated by the time I was there at Top Gun.
[00:07:39] So you're used to F-18.
[00:07:40] Now the SU-27 is now a real thing.
[00:07:43] Yeah.
[00:07:44] And you come back as an instructor.
[00:07:46] The people, the thing that you all were preparing to fight
[00:07:51] was still the, the make 29.
[00:07:53] And you, I guess, looked at this and said,
[00:07:56] a not a good plan.
[00:07:58] There's something better.
[00:07:59] We should be prepared to fight the worst case scenario,
[00:08:01] which for us is the SU-27.
[00:08:03] Yeah.
[00:08:04] That's right.
[00:08:05] And it wasn't even just the worst case scenario.
[00:08:07] It was just the reality that this thing was being proliferated.
[00:08:10] So the Russians weren't just building it.
[00:08:12] They were selling it.
[00:08:13] So it was going other places too.
[00:08:14] So you could have, well, we're not going to go to war with the Russians.
[00:08:16] Like, okay, maybe not.
[00:08:17] Maybe we're not going to go to the war with the Russians.
[00:08:18] But this airplane is going to find itself in places
[00:08:20] that we wouldn't even know.
[00:08:22] And if we showed up to meet that thing and we were unprepared,
[00:08:24] we're going to get rolled.
[00:08:26] And that was a big deal.
[00:08:27] We're going to get rolled.
[00:08:29] So you saw this new world, basically.
[00:08:32] And you adapted to the new threat.
[00:08:35] You adapted to this new reality.
[00:08:37] And that was the lesson that you were trying to share on the F-Online,
[00:08:40] which was, hey, when you get a new reality,
[00:08:42] which, by the way, this is all in reference to COVID-19,
[00:08:45] what's the new reality?
[00:08:47] And we've got every different spectrum of business on there.
[00:08:50] So it means different things to different people.
[00:08:52] And the bottom line is the lesson was you get ahead of the new reality.
[00:08:56] You don't wait for it.
[00:08:57] You get ahead of it.
[00:08:59] And when we got off the call or whatever,
[00:09:03] and I talked to you about it.
[00:09:05] And I said, something like, hey, that was a,
[00:09:08] that was a solid lesson.
[00:09:09] Like, did you squeeze your brain to get that out?
[00:09:13] And you said something like, yeah, I did.
[00:09:16] I squeezed my brain.
[00:09:17] I thought about, you know, what is this situation?
[00:09:21] And how can I explain it better?
[00:09:22] And when you do that, you understand better.
[00:09:27] Right? Like, you Dave Burke, when you, when you,
[00:09:31] when you put that threat out there and you, you,
[00:09:34] you, you carried us through that story.
[00:09:37] You understood things better.
[00:09:40] And that's why when I get all excited about understanding the world in a better way,
[00:09:44] that's an example of how, even you,
[00:09:47] this is something that you know, it's something that you actually did as a human being.
[00:09:51] And yet until you recognize it from that other perspective until you scream,
[00:09:57] you squeeze your brain and pressure on your brain,
[00:10:01] you don't get the benefit of it.
[00:10:03] The real benefit, the next level of benefit.
[00:10:06] And then when you start to tie these threads to other things,
[00:10:13] other things that don't always, always appear to be related like COVID-19
[00:10:18] and make 29s, but they are related, then you win.
[00:10:24] So every time you put pressure on your mind, you force yourself to think better and get better.
[00:10:33] And this happened to me the other day again.
[00:10:37] And it happens to me, I'll be honest with you, it actually happens to me a decent amount.
[00:10:41] Because I'm always, again, I'm always kind of put that pressure on there.
[00:10:45] I'm always squeezing it.
[00:10:48] And it was another EF online scenario.
[00:10:53] And what's good about EF online is look when people send me a question over social media.
[00:10:58] It's cool.
[00:10:59] And we try to answer the question, but you can't get any context around it.
[00:11:02] On EF online, you're getting the context, the person there.
[00:11:05] In this case, in particular, this is a guy named Ben.
[00:11:08] And he was talking about being on the path.
[00:11:11] And at the time, it was something along these lines.
[00:11:14] He's been furloughed.
[00:11:15] He's not in charge of anyone right now.
[00:11:17] He's stuck at home.
[00:11:18] It'd be a good time to get in shape.
[00:11:20] But he's having trouble doing it.
[00:11:22] Right?
[00:11:23] So I went down the path of, again, because the way this story was unfolding from him,
[00:11:30] he's normally at work.
[00:11:32] He's normally in charge of people.
[00:11:33] So we're talking about it from a leadership perspective.
[00:11:35] And I said something like, hey, you are not in charge of anyone else right now.
[00:11:39] But you're your own CEO, which is something we hear all the time, right?
[00:11:42] You're your own CEO, you're your own Supreme Commander.
[00:11:47] You're your own general.
[00:11:49] And he got it.
[00:11:50] And he said, thanks.
[00:11:51] And that was cool.
[00:11:52] I thought I kept thinking about it.
[00:11:54] Because it was some like thing in my brain where it makes sense.
[00:11:59] But it's not that easy.
[00:12:02] It's actually not that easy.
[00:12:05] Because here's the deal.
[00:12:06] You are your own general of your life.
[00:12:08] You're going to come up with a plan.
[00:12:09] You're going to make decisions.
[00:12:10] You're going to give orders, right?
[00:12:11] That's what's going to happen.
[00:12:13] Here's the part that I was kind of missing.
[00:12:17] Is that yes, you're your own general.
[00:12:20] You're your own commander on the battlefield.
[00:12:24] But you are also the soldiers.
[00:12:28] You are also the troops.
[00:12:31] You are.
[00:12:32] And we actually know, factually, that troops don't just blindly follow orders.
[00:12:37] That doesn't happen.
[00:12:38] We, hey, look, we would like that to be happening.
[00:12:41] Right?
[00:12:42] Well, let me rephrase that.
[00:12:44] That's the scenario that people think would be totally ideal.
[00:12:48] That I borrow orders and everyone listens to me.
[00:12:50] But we know we know that that doesn't work.
[00:12:53] It doesn't work in a military.
[00:12:54] It doesn't work in business.
[00:12:55] It doesn't work in a military.
[00:12:57] It doesn't work in business.
[00:12:58] It doesn't work with your kids.
[00:12:59] It doesn't work.
[00:13:02] You have to get people to a certain point.
[00:13:04] They have to be trained.
[00:13:05] They have to be educated.
[00:13:06] They have to be disciplined.
[00:13:08] They have to know why they're doing what they're doing.
[00:13:13] And if you don't explain these things to them, then they're not going to do what they
[00:13:18] supposed to do.
[00:13:19] Right?
[00:13:20] They're not going to do what they're supposed to do.
[00:13:21] If you, if you don't build that relationship,
[00:13:24] if you don't have that unifying mission, it's not going to work.
[00:13:29] So, if you're too close to your feelings, all kinds of parallels.
[00:13:36] If you're too close to your feelings, right?
[00:13:38] If you're reacting to your feelings, like, oh, I really don't feel like doing this.
[00:13:43] Then your feelings are going to start to drive the way you act.
[00:13:46] And we don't necessarily want that all the time.
[00:13:48] Just like a leader.
[00:13:50] If a leader is too close to his troops and the troops are pushing back,
[00:13:53] he's so, we don't want to do that.
[00:13:55] Okay, you guys don't feel, okay, you see what I'm saying?
[00:13:57] It's like a perfect parallel.
[00:14:01] At the same time, if you just bark orders at your troops,
[00:14:06] and they don't know why they're doing what they're doing,
[00:14:08] then they're not going to commit to doing it in any meaningful way.
[00:14:12] And just like troops, if you're a grunt and I bark orders at you, you go, yep, yes sir, you go do it.
[00:14:21] I do that to you the next day, you go do it.
[00:14:24] I do that to you the next day, all of a sudden you're not, you're lagging.
[00:14:27] I do that to you for a month, you're not invested anymore.
[00:14:30] Same thing, so when you say to yourself, I'm just going to get up,
[00:14:34] I'm going to get up and do it.
[00:14:36] That's cool.
[00:14:37] In my work for a day, it might work for two days, it might work for three days.
[00:14:40] And sometimes I absolutely use that, use that type of leadership with myself,
[00:14:46] where I'm, you know, hey, look, there's no time to debate right now.
[00:14:48] You need to get up and go to your workout.
[00:14:50] But if you try and make that the way that the only way that you're leading yourself,
[00:14:57] functionally over time, it's going to fall short.
[00:15:02] If you push your troops too hard, they're going to break.
[00:15:06] Right, you can actually push yourself so hard that you break.
[00:15:10] You can over-trained.
[00:15:12] If you're too easy on your troops, you can then soft.
[00:15:16] Same thing with what the way you happens with yourself.
[00:15:19] The better you try.
[00:15:22] This is an important one.
[00:15:23] The better you train your troops, the better they respond.
[00:15:27] So once my troops are used to, hey, this is how I do it.
[00:15:31] This is why I do it.
[00:15:32] Once they're used to that, they respond better.
[00:15:35] They know what it is I want from them.
[00:15:37] They want to give me that response, just like when you follow a routine every day.
[00:15:44] And you know what you're supposed to do.
[00:15:46] And you're troop, your mental soldiers know what they're supposed to do.
[00:15:50] They start to respond better.
[00:15:52] When you realize when your mental troops know that, hey,
[00:15:56] dog was gonna work out.
[00:15:58] It's gonna happen.
[00:15:59] And we could either stand around and procrastinate
[00:16:02] or we could just suck it up and go get it done.
[00:16:04] They go, can I want, hey, this is going that way.
[00:16:06] So the better you train your mental troops,
[00:16:10] the better you're going to get a response from them.
[00:16:13] The better the better you take care of your mental troops.
[00:16:19] The more they're going to take care of you.
[00:16:22] As long as you don't cough them as long as you don't spoil them
[00:16:26] because once again, they're going to be soft and they're going to be worthless.
[00:16:30] So you are leading yourself.
[00:16:34] That's the thing.
[00:16:35] You are leading yourself.
[00:16:36] You are in charge, but you are also the troops that have to do the work.
[00:16:42] And if you understand it that way, then you can actually start to pay attention
[00:16:46] between the relationship that you have with you as the leader and you as the troops.
[00:16:53] And the connection between where you are and where it is you want to go.
[00:16:58] Because the general might want to secure a beachhead.
[00:17:03] But that's meaningless without the troops taking action and making it happen.
[00:17:10] So the ideas and plans of the generals have to be executed by the chain of command.
[00:17:18] And they might do it out of fear for a minute, but they're not going to do it for a long period of time.
[00:17:25] They will do it out of honor.
[00:17:27] They will do it out of pride.
[00:17:29] They will do it if they understand the long term goal.
[00:17:34] They will do it if the goal of the general is aligned with the goals of the troops.
[00:17:39] If they're not aligned, we're not going to get what we want.
[00:17:47] So whether you're talking about the chain of command inside your own head or the chain of command in the military,
[00:17:56] the chain of command of business, leadership is leadership.
[00:18:00] And we cannot lead if we don't earn.
[00:18:08] We can't learn if we don't put pressure on our minds to make them figure things out.
[00:18:18] Learning.
[00:18:21] And with that, let's go back to the book.
[00:18:26] You've ever seen the movie Goodfellis?
[00:18:28] Yes.
[00:18:29] So there's this scene where Joe Pashy, I think, his girl just came from the air.
[00:18:37] He just came from the airport, smuggled some diamonds in her hair.
[00:18:41] So it's a long, and she's like, okay, let's get these diamonds out and she's doing this.
[00:18:47] They're all falling out and she's like, yep, that's it.
[00:18:51] And they're like, hey, you sure you don't got any but they're got to be more in there.
[00:18:55] There has to be.
[00:18:56] She's like, this is it.
[00:18:58] So she's like, oh, there's no.
[00:19:00] And he essentially squeezes her little hair, do shuffles him in a few more diamonds come out.
[00:19:06] All right.
[00:19:07] So that's the first.
[00:19:09] It's the same thing.
[00:19:10] You do a little bit of a breath and remember how we were talking about this before, where you're
[00:19:17] essentially when you told me about the brain squeeze was essentially a rebuttal to the idea that,
[00:19:24] if it's just not coming to me, hey, it's not it's time, you know, it'll come in time or not at all.
[00:19:30] Right.
[00:19:31] Like it then it's not meant to be almost kind of thing, right?
[00:19:33] That was your rebuttal because you thought that that's essentially what I was saying.
[00:19:35] I wasn't saying that, but that's what you thought I was saying.
[00:19:38] And that makes sense, especially when you go back, not especially, but when you go back to the good fellow
[00:19:44] is the analogy where, you know, in her mind, yeah, hey, that's it.
[00:19:47] That's all we got.
[00:19:48] You know, what am I going to do?
[00:19:50] Shave my head?
[00:19:51] No.
[00:19:52] Right.
[00:19:53] That's all I got.
[00:19:54] You know, and Joe Bessier was like, oh man, we're going to do that little brain squeeze.
[00:19:56] We're going to get a few more diamonds.
[00:19:57] How do you?
[00:19:58] That's a, that's a, that's sensible.
[00:20:01] You know, sir.
[00:20:02] You get one credit for today.
[00:20:03] I think I understood.
[00:20:05] I think I understand.
[00:20:06] And now black already.
[00:20:07] Yeah.
[00:20:08] Well, you talked to me about that.
[00:20:10] I figured it was that you're talking about making videos, which is your creative pursuit on the earth.
[00:20:15] Sure.
[00:20:16] Wonderful.
[00:20:17] And you were telling me that sometimes, you know, this, this idea is a little bit of an idea, whatever,
[00:20:21] and then it fades and you forget about it or you don't execute on it.
[00:20:24] And I was telling you that, in fact, the little ideas just aren't going to grow to be,
[00:20:32] outstanding without some pressure on them.
[00:20:36] That put them a little squeeze on.
[00:20:38] You're not going to get those diamonds out.
[00:20:40] You know, I was going to hang out and, you know, I guess maybe part of me when I'm kind of thinking back on that whole scenario or a scenario scenario's like it.
[00:20:49] Or I'm kind of like, or I was with the philosophy of like, well, hey, look, if there's some diamonds in there,
[00:20:54] hey, they're gone.
[00:20:55] I come out, you know, let's let them come out naturally so they can kind of, you know, through their own
[00:21:01] evolution kind of manifest themselves kind of thing, you know, and I think after thinking about it,
[00:21:07] it's like, man, I don't know if that's the best way.
[00:21:09] I'm reviewing my entire life right now in my head, all of it.
[00:21:14] As fast as I can, and I'm going to say that I think if I didn't put pressure on my head,
[00:21:22] I would be zero.
[00:21:24] I would be zero.
[00:21:25] My score would be zero.
[00:21:26] There would be zero diamonds on the table.
[00:21:28] Zero.
[00:21:29] Not that I'm saying I got diamonds on the table, but at least there's some pieces of coal.
[00:21:33] That's come out and they can, they can whatever we can scratch some black marks on a, on a page or whatever, like at least it's something.
[00:21:40] It's bet.
[00:21:41] It's not nothing.
[00:21:42] It's nothing.
[00:21:43] Right.
[00:21:44] So we're going to have to do it.
[00:21:45] But this perspective of learning and one of the, one of the things that I realized I never thought about before,
[00:21:51] when they talk about learning, as we covered on the last podcast, they're talking about,
[00:21:56] if I see the enemy do something, that was effective, I learned.
[00:22:02] I never thought about learning from that perspective before in my life.
[00:22:06] So this is a new development.
[00:22:08] But now I just took that idea and started thinking about how,
[00:22:13] there's a lot of things I've learned along the way.
[00:22:17] And I was trying to pull the thread and see what the source of that was.
[00:22:21] And a lot of it boiled back down to like asking questions of everything that I see.
[00:22:26] And again, I'm not talking about being a contrarian because,
[00:22:29] Contrarians, they have their time in place and I'm sure sometimes I might be a little bit,
[00:22:34] actually I don't actually don't think that.
[00:22:37] I don't think I'm a contrarian.
[00:22:39] I think I will, if there's an idea that is contrary to what someone is saying,
[00:22:44] and I would like to explore whether it's right or not, I will bring it up all day long.
[00:22:48] But I won't bring up an idea just to kind of be different.
[00:22:52] For the sake of doing it.
[00:22:53] I've worked for people like that.
[00:22:55] Yeah, it's like part of their personality.
[00:22:57] I work from one in particular and it was just super annoying.
[00:23:00] You know, and I just have to be like,
[00:23:03] especially because he was a senior guy.
[00:23:05] And so his little contrarian statements would,
[00:23:08] would send people in directions that I wish we were not going,
[00:23:13] because I knew that they were not going to prove.
[00:23:15] They weren't going to provide any fruit on the other side.
[00:23:19] Definitely no diamonds were going on.
[00:23:21] The brain squeeze also,
[00:23:24] it does like secondary stuff too,
[00:23:26] where let's say you're trying to squeeze your brain.
[00:23:29] I need this idea to kind of fulfill this last element of this comprehensive idea that I want to put out.
[00:23:35] I need this one little element and I'm squeezing my brain.
[00:23:38] No diamonds yet, but other stuff is coming out.
[00:23:42] Maybe some collateral.
[00:23:45] Maybe some, you know, maybe a ruby over here.
[00:23:48] Or what do you call those blue ones, the sapphire, whatever.
[00:23:51] Maybe over there.
[00:23:52] I don't need that right now, but that came out.
[00:23:54] Maybe I'll save that one for later.
[00:23:56] Maybe maybe those will be part of a future idea.
[00:23:59] So boom, you got all these jewels essentially.
[00:24:02] And then finally, let's say the diamond doesn't come out.
[00:24:05] Let's say it straight up doesn't come out.
[00:24:07] You got all those rubies and stuff.
[00:24:08] If you didn't do that brain squeeze,
[00:24:09] you can say I have no diamond anyway without those other jewels, you seem to say.
[00:24:13] Yeah, I'm taking a subconscious kind of note to myself,
[00:24:19] or I'm putting myself on subconscious notice because like you and I are sitting here just throwing around that we're just producing diamonds.
[00:24:29] And that's so just not true, but it's a metaphor.
[00:24:33] Yes, producing an idea which may or may not have value, but the thing is it doesn't exist unless you put some pressure on your on your mind.
[00:24:46] And it's so just like working out, right?
[00:24:48] You're not going to get stronger if you don't put some pressure on you.
[00:24:50] You're not going to get better to just who unless you get some pressure put on you.
[00:24:53] Doesn't happen.
[00:24:54] So you have to put pressure on your mind.
[00:24:56] The thing is you can so easily go through life right now without putting any pressure on your mind.
[00:25:02] You can go through life right now.
[00:25:04] And I guess when I'm talking about you can be a 36 year old, a 42 year old, a 19 year old and put no pressure on your brain and just resort to the modules of knowledge that you have.
[00:25:18] And if they don't fit that well, it's cool just just you know put some spackle over it.
[00:25:26] Call it good.
[00:25:28] Yeah, all right.
[00:25:32] Dave relatively quiet over there.
[00:25:34] Dude, I'm listening now.
[00:25:36] That's that was pretty legit.
[00:25:38] And yeah, squeezing your brain, you're not talking about that for a while.
[00:25:42] And that particular case was kind of cool because I didn't know that I was going to be leading that, you know, taking point on the initial conversation.
[00:25:50] But a couple days prior after we talked about it, I started thinking about it.
[00:25:55] Dave, calm as a came in, can you can you take lead on the Eiffon line on Wednesday, like absolutely I've heard him thinking about it.
[00:26:02] Which was also a really cool thing that I didn't think about when we were talking about the squeezing your brain.
[00:26:07] It makes you feel more prepared about things that life in general.
[00:26:10] Not that I was trying to produce, I wasn't thinking to produce some thing for the Eiffon line module.
[00:26:15] That wasn't why I did it.
[00:26:18] And then when he asked me, I'm like, yes, absolutely.
[00:26:21] And then I spent more time creating that, you know, but I'd already been thinking about things to make the connection because we've been doing that so much.
[00:26:28] And the world has been changing for a lot of people.
[00:26:30] God it.
[00:26:31] And I just started spending some time squeezing my brain, not to produce something that was for a deliverable or a client request that wasn't about the outcome.
[00:26:40] It was about doing it.
[00:26:41] And it was pretty interesting how those two aligned.
[00:26:44] And it's like, hey, can you do this? I'm like, actually, no factor because I've been thinking about it.
[00:26:49] So you've been getting kind of broad questions from clients about how do we adapt to what's happening and you started squeezing your brain to figure out.
[00:26:58] Yeah, way to explain that.
[00:27:01] That would be very clear.
[00:27:03] And it would make people connect the process of doing it to a story, which makes it easier to understand.
[00:27:10] Well, the stories are important.
[00:27:12] But as we've, as we've been continuing to answer questions,
[00:27:16] you have to find more ways to convey that message.
[00:27:19] Some resonate and some don't as well.
[00:27:22] And sometimes what would go on a month ago is actually a little bit different than what's going on now.
[00:27:26] So I wanted to think of more effective ways to be able to communicate things for people to listen to and do something about.
[00:27:33] And that was what the squeezing the brain was initially for me is I have to be better in explaining what I think is going on.
[00:27:38] So people can do a better job dealing with it.
[00:27:41] And if I just kind of go with the same way I've done it that little role with the ex I've got, like I'll just go back to module B coming like, well,
[00:27:47] module B doesn't always work for everybody.
[00:27:49] It's made it makes me smarter like you described, but it also makes me more effective for those people.
[00:27:54] So I was just thinking about it in those terms.
[00:27:56] And then he's like, hey man, can you do this?
[00:27:58] Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
[00:28:00] And of course, we've been talking about it.
[00:28:03] And I've been thinking about it a lot in general in a whole bunch of different ways.
[00:28:06] And it isn't always just like, what can I do to convey further people?
[00:28:09] I actually more about me and just getting better at thinking about things and getting better at making decisions, getting better at solving problems.
[00:28:17] Because I actually am not as good as I need to be on that, not even close.
[00:28:21] Yeah, the idea that what you're talking about is learning.
[00:28:25] That's what we're talking about.
[00:28:27] We're talking about learning and learning can be a passive thing where you're waiting for someone to show you the way or it can be something that you're proactively engaged your brain in.
[00:28:38] Yeah.
[00:28:39] And I think this book, I can't remember exactly.
[00:28:41] This idea of this learning being continuous process, the biggest weight against me personally.
[00:28:47] This is probably true for a lot of folks.
[00:28:48] Continue to do this is looking back and be like, I have to pretty well for myself.
[00:28:53] You know, I'm at this stage of my life.
[00:28:54] I've accomplished these things.
[00:28:55] And that's the biggest weight against continuing to do this.
[00:28:59] And this is what keeps me from getting complacent.
[00:29:01] It's what keeps me from getting comfortable.
[00:29:04] What I've already done.
[00:29:05] I think we we we laughed about it the other day. I was telling you like I actually forgot I was in the Marine Corps for 23 years.
[00:29:11] Because I'm so focused on trying to figure out a whole bunch of other things that I'm not good enough at yet.
[00:29:16] And it's actually healthy to not rest on the laurels of whatever I did in the past.
[00:29:21] Because that actually isn't enough to keep me moving forward.
[00:29:24] And if this actually is continuously going to do this, you have to do this thing all the time all the time.
[00:29:29] Don't you find though.
[00:29:31] Reverse kind of over laying new information on what happened in the past.
[00:29:37] Speaking of the F online, I did that today.
[00:29:40] I was talking about.
[00:29:42] Mike's really it's we covered up when Mike's really was on the podcast.
[00:29:46] The first thing I did when Mike's really checked in this asking a bruiser, he's checking in late is I gave him a counseling, a written counseling.
[00:29:53] And I was explaining why I did it.
[00:29:57] And I actually like back then whatever it was 15 years ago or something like that 15 years ago when I met him.
[00:30:05] If you would have said, why did you do that?
[00:30:07] You know what I was said? Because he checked in and he needs to be squared away or something like that.
[00:30:10] I would have given this.
[00:30:11] But if you would have actually squeezed my brain at the time and said, wait a second.
[00:30:15] No, Jocco.
[00:30:16] You're in a leadership position.
[00:30:19] You take action because for a reason.
[00:30:23] Tell me why you actually, why did you actually decide of everyone that's in task in a bruiser?
[00:30:30] You got this new guy coming in.
[00:30:32] Why is it him that you've decided at this point in time that you want to give him a written counseling the minute he checks in?
[00:30:41] And I was thinking about it.
[00:30:44] And I was squeezing my brain and I realized a couple things.
[00:30:47] And I was trying to convince him to have a better one. He was coming from a task in it that just self-destructed.
[00:30:53] And I didn't want to any of that drama.
[00:30:55] Number two, I wanted to know that I was serious about what we do.
[00:31:00] And the last one, the one that I had to squeeze my brain to get to is I didn't know Mike.
[00:31:06] And we were going to deploy in a few months.
[00:31:09] And I needed to know who this guy was.
[00:31:12] I knew who is a primary and who is a prior recon and who is prior sniper.
[00:31:16] And I, but I didn't know him.
[00:31:18] And so by me taking this young officer,
[00:31:22] date the minute I meet him and say, yeah, come talk to me.
[00:31:25] And I hand him a counseling sheet.
[00:31:27] And when it said something along lines of, hey, there's no drama in task in a bruiser.
[00:31:31] So don't bring any drama in a task in a bruiser.
[00:31:34] And Mike was like Roger that.
[00:31:36] They need to sign it.
[00:31:38] And that moment where I saw his reaction.
[00:31:42] Yes, what this whole thing was really about. It was really just a test to see who am I getting.
[00:31:46] Is this guy have a big ego? Is this guy have a bad attitude?
[00:31:48] Is this guy think he smarter than everybody else?
[00:31:50] Is he, when I say, hey, I want you to sign this counseling.
[00:31:52] Should he be going to say, this ridiculous, why should I be yours?
[00:31:55] You're going to roll his eyes at me or is he going to, you know,
[00:31:58] Huff and paw for whatever.
[00:31:59] This is ego going to come out.
[00:32:01] That's, that's the purpose.
[00:32:03] And I can now look back and see, hey, totally.
[00:32:06] That's, that's, that's one of the reasons why I did it.
[00:32:09] And that all came from that all came from the fact that I was talking to this other woman on
[00:32:16] EF online and talking about the Willy Wonka,
[00:32:20] Freaking example of how you test somebody.
[00:32:23] The end of, you ever seen the movie Willy Wonka, echoed Charles?
[00:32:25] The original?
[00:32:26] No, sir.
[00:32:27] That's pathetic.
[00:32:29] The end of the original Willy Wonka, he goes off berserk and tries to get the person to
[00:32:34] change his mind or to reveal himself as either being a thief and untrustworthy or being
[00:32:41] trustworthy.
[00:32:42] So I had explained that to him.
[00:32:44] And so now I could see clearly why I'm doing this.
[00:32:47] So even though you might say, I forget about being the Marine Corps and I get what you're saying
[00:32:50] Like it's, it's, yeah, I get what you're saying, but, but the reality is you take
[00:32:55] What, you take this new thing that, this new thing that came out of your brain
[00:32:59] And you overlay it on the past and you go, oh, this makes,
[00:33:03] This makes total sense now.
[00:33:05] Oh, I totally see why I would do that.
[00:33:08] And so it's a little reverse engineering.
[00:33:10] It's actually a lot of reverse engineering, but it also reveals, hey, where did I make mistakes?
[00:33:15] What did I do wrong? Why did I do? Why did I back this way when I shouldn't have?
[00:33:20] If you want to take the things that you've learned and turn them into a little bit of
[00:33:25] Wisdom that might be helpful for you or your kids or the people around you,
[00:33:29] You have to do what you just described.
[00:33:31] And that's been the part that I've been wrestling with as I look back and think I did a lot of things.
[00:33:36] But I didn't think about why I was doing them nearly enough to be as wise or articulate as I should be to look back.
[00:33:43] And so I didn't taking those lessons now, and I was just one of a million different things I could think of and think
[00:33:48] What were we really doing when we were doing that?
[00:33:51] And if you don't do that, all it is is an experience and the thing that matters the most is what you took from that
[00:33:57] Not just for you, but for the people around you, if you want to create some wisdom from that, you have to do what you just described
[00:34:02] And that was one of a million more things I have to do, and that's part of the reason why I was so fun
[00:34:06] As I took this cool story from Top Gun, I'm like, you know what?
[00:34:09] I didn't really think about why we're doing, there's a big thing what we're doing it
[00:34:12] And I didn't really think about it, and there is no way I would have thought, could what we were doing now
[00:34:18] Somehow be helpful somewhere else down the line other than rebased line and Top Gun training for this next aircraft
[00:34:24] That's what I thought we were doing, that is not what we were doing
[00:34:27] There was so much more going on there, and the squeezing of my brain is trying to create a much larger context
[00:34:33] For all these things that I did in those 23 years that I look back and I'm like, dude, if you want this to be useful, you have to think about it a lot more
[00:34:40] Yeah, and it's crazy that when you see the patterns, the pattern recognition over time, you go, yeah, that's what I was doing there, yep, that's
[00:34:48] And for me that a lot of that stem from GJ2, because that's when I started connecting the dots of, oh, you don't want to attack an area that's reinforced in on the battlefield in GJ2 or in as a leader
[00:35:01] You don't want to attack an area, okay, I got that, oh, you need to maneuver, you need to, you need to be able to move, right?
[00:35:08] Think about that, just think about that concept in GJ2
[00:35:12] When you get, when you get immobilized, you are on the way to defeat the minute that you can no longer move, you are on your way to defeat
[00:35:22] Well, on the battlefield, if you can't maneuver anymore, if you dig in and you can't move, you're on your way to defeat, and mentally, if you close your mind and you stop thinking and seeing other perspectives and keeping an open mind, you are on your way to defeat
[00:35:39] So when you start taking these and seeing them in other areas, it opens your mind up, it frees your mind in so many different ways and that is learning, that's what it is
[00:35:54] All right, little preamble
[00:35:59] So chapter 3, the learning environment, it is necessary for us to learn from others mistakes, you will not live long enough to make them all yourself
[00:36:10] That's, that's a, at Marickover
[00:36:13] Next one, our knowledge of circumstances has increased, but our uncertainty instead of having diminished has only increased
[00:36:24] The reason of this is that we do not gain all our experience at once, but by degrees
[00:36:30] So our determinations continue to be assailed, incessantly, by fresh experience
[00:36:37] And the mind, if we may use the expression, must always be under arms
[00:36:44] So new things are going to come about and you got to be, he's using, he's using kind of a different metaphor
[00:36:50] I'm saying keep your mind open, he's like you got to be ready ready to adapt, keep your mind under pressure
[00:36:57] Yeah, under pressure, exactly
[00:37:01] Next here, victory does not necessarily go to those who have the largest or most modern forces
[00:37:06] But to those who are able to recognize the need to adapt, generate intelligent decisions and execute them more quickly than their enemy
[00:37:15] Victory does not go to the person who's the biggest and strongest
[00:37:22] Echo, yes sir
[00:37:24] It goes to the person who can adapt, who can make intelligent decisions and execute them quickly
[00:37:30] Skipping ahead in the progress in the progression of learning, training should provide marines with an opposing will to practice against
[00:37:38] Through repetition and a training environment marines loaned out think adversaries and over-completion
[00:37:44] Prior to encountering these factors during real world operations
[00:37:49] Therefore marines must integrate lessons learned from current and previous conflicts to adapt their learning environments, methods, assessments and feedback to reflect evolving threats
[00:38:00] Got a lot of questions about this one
[00:38:03] A lot of questions of how do I get my mind ready to do this?
[00:38:06] It's easy to sit here and talk about it
[00:38:08] Hey, you want to be adaptable, hey you want to be able to detach, you want to be able to handle pressure
[00:38:14] How do I actually do that?
[00:38:15] Oh, you got to put yourself in those environments
[00:38:18] You've got to go against an opposing will in order to practice
[00:38:23] Sparring
[00:38:25] That is due to yes
[00:38:28] You know what what is a barrier?
[00:38:30] Well, for you it might not be underrated because you have seemed to know the importance of it
[00:38:36] Value but role play right like role playing scenarios or whatever
[00:38:41] Yes, we do 100% see the value right, but that role playing goes deep though because and I
[00:38:47] I don't want to say I learned it for me, but you really
[00:38:51] You brought it to light the importance and how of how
[00:38:55] Good it it works, but just how easy it is to do so I think like okay, so I'll make kid
[00:39:02] He's three and I'm going to say hey, don't like wine or whatever
[00:39:08] And they'll be like what or don't be what I say you say you stand up straight and say yes or when I say your name
[00:39:13] You say yes or I don't require them to do that, but it was like a practice to have a certain attitude
[00:39:18] So like I say if I say your name you say yes sir don't say what don't say like that
[00:39:23] Say when I say your name you say yes sir and he's like okay, you know
[00:39:27] No role play like okay, so next time it happens I expect you to do that kind of
[00:39:31] Think but I said no, no, we're going to go through it this practice so I do it like two times
[00:39:36] Took like what 30 seconds not even 30 seconds now every single time
[00:39:40] But I got to say it in a certain tone, but still it's in his head now
[00:39:44] You know because he's sort of been there zoom's in rather than just some idea on a paper or out of my mouth
[00:39:49] Whatever yeah, the value of role play is equivalent to the value of rolling in jjitsu
[00:39:53] Sparring essentially what sparring is just playing with additional motivations of course, but yeah
[00:40:00] I mean that's really the story that you're letting with is what we were talking about earlier is everything we did at top
[00:40:06] And it was role play because nothing was live you're not fighting against your real enemy and our problem is it
[00:40:11] We were role playing against somebody who wasn't good enough to make it better and like hey I'm doing everything right
[00:40:16] I'm winning and that meant I was going to but the role play the other person in that role play wasn't wasn't role playing a
[00:40:24] Hard enough situation for us to be effective
[00:40:27] Yeah
[00:40:29] And just like jjitsu you want to
[00:40:31] Yeah role play against the best possible opponent you can look can you over do that yes, you can if all you do is just get smoked and I bet you guys at top
[00:40:39] Conest instructors had to back off all the time and we had dialed we did we dialed by design and we knew what we were doing
[00:40:45] But ultimately you there has to be someplace where the role play isn't designed just so you can win the role play is designed so you can be challenged correctly
[00:40:52] And then you know we're going to talk about adaptation but the more effective your counterpart is the more you have to adapt the less effective
[00:40:59] They are the more you can just stick to your plan and you win and that's a really bad lesson is like I just keep doing what I'm doing
[00:41:04] I'm going to be okay. Yeah, the more effective your opponent is the more pressure you put on your brain
[00:41:08] It's right and the better results you're going to guess the more money learn. It's going to shake out of your hair
[00:41:12] Is there learning environments there's not a single correct design for creating the ideal learning environment because each learning objective
[00:41:20] Marine team and condition will differ therefore Marines modify learning environment to most effectively meet their the learners needs and reflect the conditions that they expect to encounter
[00:41:31] Effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought reasoning and the creation of the potential solutions to the problems and encourages Marines to explore alternative courses of action
[00:41:45] I had to highlight that part because effective learning requires environments that foster flexibility of thought reasoning and the creation of potential
[00:41:58] So that so if at top gone what you did was said
[00:42:03] Okay, Bill on this run you're going to go up you're going to do this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver this maneuver
[00:42:11] And you're going to do them in this required timeline like you could create some false pressure with the required timeline they would get good at doing this maneuver this maneuver
[00:42:18] And then as soon as a real thing happened and they got a wrench thrown into order you came out of it. You just annihilate them same thing as you did so or the old school
[00:42:29] The cutters if right that cutters in whatever traditional martial arts here's the move you know there's a downward frosting blow from your opponent you do the
[00:42:40] Ex block and then whatever you do these coordinated moves which is what made those type of martial arts when you have see started or when they were doing NHB in in Brazil or Valley 2-Doh in Brazil
[00:42:56] Then the traditional martial arts that had been not learning in this way not learning for flexibility of thought and reasoning and creation of potential and what they didn't train for that they trained for a downward frosting whatever
[00:43:11] And when they got an upper cut or a leg kick that they did not work against they were dead in the water
[00:43:17] Same thing with when I was training what was what the seals that's how we train the seals we're not training hey here's the here's the
[00:43:25] Here's the here's the here's the next maneuver that you're going to do is call bay a center peel
[00:43:31] Now walk down the ravine and when the whistle blows you guys do a center peel actually that's how we start off right that's the beginning
[00:43:38] And I'm sure there's maneuvers you guys taught a topic hey here's the maneuver here's what you do yes but eventually you got to figure out what maneuver you're going to do when you're going to do it how long you're going to do it for what's your next maneuver going to be
[00:43:47] Yeah, and what little change is you're going to make to that maneuver in real time because it's not going to be the road application of that maneuver you learn
[00:43:54] It's going to be a variation of that
[00:43:59] Trying to expand people's brains and
[00:44:02] Effective learning in back to the book and effective learning environment enables marines to clearly understand the intended war fighting doctrine concepts tactics techniques procedures and learning outcomes
[00:44:11] It clearly identifies the expectation for the learners
[00:44:14] Whether exercising marines critical thinking in problem solving skills or understanding circumstances where a medi'd obedience to orders or
[00:44:22] Application of specific basic skills such as good marksmanship are required so there's times where you are going to just straight up say Roger that got it
[00:44:33] And then there's times where you're going to have to push back or get creative
[00:44:37] Additionally effective learning environments provide opportunities for marines to execute the required repetitions under different conditions to achieve competency
[00:44:46] Have you ever read the book outliers
[00:44:53] Gladwell, yes, yes, so one of the things that one of the experiments that they go through in that book is there is they're training two groups of kids to throw a ball into a basket or something like that not a basketball, but just a ball into a basket
[00:45:05] And there's one group of kids that do it at varying distances five feet seven feet four feet three feet eight feet
[00:45:13] The other kids are just doing it at six feet every single time test day comes the baskets at six feet
[00:45:21] Guess who does better echo Charles the six feet people nope really yep. It's the people that had the variety of flexibility
[00:45:30] They trained and they were able to outperform. So that's counter-induitive right we think ages do the same thing that's why
[00:45:39] That's why like the multi-sport athlete has this extra capability and they tend to do well
[00:45:46] I just watched a documentary about different really successful athletes that that oftentimes not all the time often times the player that does the best is not the best
[00:45:58] The best baseball player is not the player that just played baseball. It's the player player that played football basketball and baseball and then when he was 14 he focused on baseball
[00:46:09] But he had all this different athletic training. He was more capable with his body and yes
[00:46:17] In moving his body through space
[00:46:20] With force. Oh, I had to go deep on that one. Yeah, first and foremost the learning environment focuses on the learner's needs enabling Marines to understand
[00:46:29] Develop and retain the necessary knowledge and competencies they will use in combat fast forward. Although marine strive for learning efficiencies
[00:46:38] Improving the learning environment does not necessarily mean making it more efficient
[00:46:44] For example, though rope memorization or reciting fast can be very efficient and useful for developing basic knowledge such as memorizing standing orders
[00:46:52] They are not effective methods for all learning effective learning often requires approaching material from different perspectives
[00:47:00] Applying information in context and explaining how why accents occurred in addition to what occurred
[00:47:05] How many times echo Charles have you heard me say
[00:47:10] You learn an arm lock from a different professor and from different angles it will make your arm lock better
[00:47:19] So if Dean Lister teaches you an arm lock he's going to show you a couple details if I teach it to you it's going to show you a different detail if Jeffy clever teaches it to you
[00:47:27] It's going to be an even different detail and each one of those different
[00:47:31] Left, these different perspectives is going to make you better then if you when you learn the arm lock from the mount, but then you also learn it from the guard
[00:47:42] Both the arm lock from the guard and the arm lock from the mount both to get better
[00:47:47] Yes, many times yeah many times better
[00:47:51] So
[00:47:54] Learning from different perspectives
[00:47:56] Important tool important tool you got to have
[00:48:01] Fast forward
[00:48:04] Setting the conditions for success recognizing these surfaces and gaps requires awareness
[00:48:10] Honesty and judgment because they are often unique to the individual or the specific unit a surface in one learner or unit may be a gap in another
[00:48:20] It is incumbent upon leaders and instructors learners and their peers to actively seek out these gaps through continuous and aggressive reconnaissance
[00:48:30] Learners should not hide gaps in their knowledge instead they should exercise intellectual humility to identify and fill these gaps in order to improve
[00:48:45] Intellectual humility
[00:48:51] That's huge man
[00:48:53] Yes sir
[00:48:54] That is not easy to do
[00:48:58] To infern your peers especially if you're in charge
[00:49:01] If you're like the leader of a team or an organization or even the instructor
[00:49:05] Which you know my time at Top Gun anything I can think of where I was the leader of the team that intellectual humility
[00:49:13] We call that a brutally honest self assessment
[00:49:17] Yeah, and what's interesting is that
[00:49:21] If you think if you're not going to be humble and you're not going to admit your mistakes you're going to look stronger to your troops you're completely and utterly wrong
[00:49:30] Yeah
[00:49:32] Yeah, that when you say it's not easy to do
[00:49:36] If it's not easy to do and you choose subconscious your consciously you choose not to do it actually intellectual humility that is and you choose to hide your gaps
[00:49:46] What's the called surfaces gaps gaps gaps in the knowledge
[00:49:50] If you choose to hide your gaps in knowledge and you and that's sort of the way you are that's just how you get good at hiding the gaps and then you become
[00:49:59] Essentially successful at hiding the gaps then you get that so that will stunt your learning in that way the how it's it I mean actively yes, but it makes it harder and harder and harder as you go on
[00:50:10] Yeah, you know, so because the more you hide your gaps and the more you're committed to hiding the gaps
[00:50:15] The more like when you get start to get exposed or you're gonna hide your gaps
[00:50:19] Yeah, and also you can only hide your gaps for so long
[00:50:22] I mean people recognize it when you don't have that part of your game
[00:50:27] It's not like people don't know it man
[00:50:30] Yeah, and I'm thinking you get 200% where you know those guys where it's like man what they don't want to roll with certain guys
[00:50:37] You know like it's everyone sees it everyone sees what you're doing
[00:50:43] Marines mitigate weaknesses by leveraging their strengths to form new understanding and focus on learning to eliminate gaps
[00:50:51] This can only occur when learners first acknowledge their weaknesses and resolve to leverage their strengths to build meaningful connections
[00:51:04] Should we make a poster that says that you know I mean like just so important and so seemingly obvious and once again
[00:51:14] You wonder why someone would have to take something so seemingly obvious and put it into a book
[00:51:19] It's because even though it's seemingly obvious it's hard for people to do
[00:51:27] Next section is called the expeditionary nature of learning
[00:51:32] Marines recognize that to be effective war fighters
[00:51:35] They must be warrior scholars
[00:51:37] They must seize initiative to study the profession of arms whenever and wherever learning opportunities arise
[00:51:44] And once again, I like I like how the the Marine Corps manuals just state things as a matter of fact
[00:51:52] If you're a Marine then you obviously recognize that you need to be a warrior scholar. That's just how it is
[00:52:02] Now that goes into a little subsection here
[00:52:05] And it's talking about force on force exercises to simulate wars complexity force on force exercises are purpose driven learning environments that are approximate the complexity of war
[00:52:19] When developing such exercises Marines focus on designs that enhance problem solving and promote decision forcing events
[00:52:26] This enables Marines to practice and better understand how to get inside the enemies decision making process
[00:52:32] There is no substitute for fighting against a competent realistic thinking adaptive enemy
[00:52:37] Even if that enemy is simulated by other Marines this practice ensures that challenging learning environments provide a place to practice
[00:52:45] Develop experience allow errors adapt and learn how to fight and win
[00:52:52] That's the very premise of top gun need this to say
[00:52:56] That is the very premise of top gun that is the very premise of the advanced seal training where you are in fact fighting against other seals all the time
[00:53:06] And what's
[00:53:08] What might be hard for people to grasp and you might even be able to have a more linear exposure to this
[00:53:17] I could watch a young seal officer
[00:53:21] Get better at decision making events
[00:53:26] I could watch a young seal get better at being in chaotic situations
[00:53:33] Taking a step back, detaching, looking around, figuring out what the possibilities are, choosing a course of action, executing it
[00:53:38] I could watch someone get better at that
[00:53:42] It's hard to
[00:53:45] It can be hard to quantify what that
[00:53:49] Like what that actually looks like but I'm telling you I'm trying to tell you what it looks like
[00:53:53] It looked like this why I think you might be able to give a better example
[00:53:56] You'd see a young seal day one going through land warfare training
[00:54:01] And or day his first
[00:54:03] We'll call it field training exercise
[00:54:05] Or his first immediate action drill in an uncontrolled environment where he doesn't know what the call that he's going to make is
[00:54:12] Pertrolling out there, boom the targets pop up the simulator start going off
[00:54:19] His people react and the first time it happens to him he's totally overwhelmed
[00:54:25] Doesn't know what decision to make he's shooting his gun he's looking around
[00:54:29] But not with any purpose no call gets made eventually the platoon chief goes
[00:54:33] He'll be right or whatever
[00:54:36] Then you know you're debrief him you go hey what were you thinking about when the shooting started
[00:54:40] Well, I saw that target out ahead of us okay what else did you see?
[00:54:46] You didn't see anything else did you?
[00:54:51] No, I didn't see anything else okay cool next time
[00:54:54] I don't want you to even chew your gun
[00:54:56] Okay
[00:54:58] Same thing happens now at least the debrief he says yeah, I kind of saw that I saw that little piece of terrain we could get by
[00:55:05] That that seemed to be a good spot and then chief made the call milk. Okay, so you're your your eyes opened up a little bit more
[00:55:12] And this continues down the road until finally he can actually make a decision on his own in these pressure environments
[00:55:18] So you can watch someone get put into the chaos and get better at handling it over time
[00:55:27] What did it look like at top of them similar?
[00:55:29] Yeah, very similar and what I was actually thinking with that is when you're talking about the progression is the end of the progression
[00:55:37] You know we'd go through this multi-plane environment, which is I think more replicates what you were doing
[00:55:42] Not just the one against one, but multiple friendly aircraft and multiple enemy aircraft and it appears as if the enemy could give you any number of an infinite number of
[00:55:51] Possibles options to attack us, but we actually didn't do that we had not quite scripted
[00:55:56] But some of the basic formations of basic ways we wanted them to do it and at the beginning of those phases the student leaders would come back and just be like completely overwhelmed and by the end
[00:56:05] They wouldn't be they'd be and they would ask hey, what are you doing so what's so much different about these last runs I've been doing well and you're like nothing nothing
[00:56:14] And it's when they you would see them starting to see what's happening and then their minds are thinking wow
[00:56:21] They're dialing it back or they're making and we weren't changing anything but that they were able to see that time was slowing down
[00:56:26] Their decisions would make more sense and they'd ask the question of hey what change and like hey man nothing change here what you're able to do now is see and so the parallels there
[00:56:36] Amazing how similar are those two situations are and it also goes to show how much more thinking I have to put into how we were doing the training and where at fits elsewhere other than just making pilots ready to go to war
[00:56:48] Yeah, I would get asked the same question
[00:56:51] Hey, thanks for back and off tonight. I'd be like hey, thank you for using utilizing decentralized command and letting your subordinate leaders go on the assault
[00:57:01] Yeah, go on the attack go on the offense because when you do that my guys are pinned down. They can't do anything you know how many guys I had tonight out of out fighting you how many four you know how many had last night four you know how many had the night before four no change in the number of opt for you're going against
[00:57:17] What's what's changing is your ability to lead is your your team your subordinate leaders ability to step up and make things happen
[00:57:25] Your ability to give good guidance your ability to make decisions your ability for your team members to make good decisions because that's the other thing that makes it really drastic is as
[00:57:35] Eight fire team leaders all of a sudden you know when when they show up two of them are kind of proactively making things happen and then it becomes three and then it becomes four and then it becomes five and then it becomes six out of eight fire team leaders are proactively getting after it
[00:57:52] It's going to be hard to contain and that's when I would have to step up I wouldn't back off. I would step up my trade at guys. I'd be like, okay, hey, we need to bring it. We need four more guys. We need to put somebody over here and we try and screw them over
[00:58:04] But we wouldn't be able to beat a good task unit with good decentralized command with simple calls doing cover move prior we couldn't we couldn't beat him you could not beat that right so you can get better at this stuff.
[00:58:22] Fast forward a little bit. Marines guard against complacency because they know that their adversaries are always watching what the Marines are doing and they are constantly making changes to adapt in an attempt to defeat us.
[00:58:37] If Marine settle for what they think is good enough it may result in high-cathlete rates for the next fight.
[00:58:46] Marines just FYI are not complacent next question.
[00:58:55] A learner centric model this is the next section is called a learner centric model. The learner centric model ensures that content is relevant to learners actively engaging and challenging Marines in a positive instructional climate.
[00:59:12] For example, discussions on problem solving between the learners and leaders and instructors are an effective method to motivate learners and build teams as they analyze information, consider alternatives and work together to develop a solution to the problem that's posed on them.
[00:59:29] Now I am going to venture to guess that some of this section is aimed at an old philosophy of training which existed in the military well I definitely existed in the SEAL teams which is hey we're going we're here you're going to do what we tell you to do if you don't do exactly what we tell you to do it's because you're all screwed up.
[00:59:58] And you need to do it what the way we showed you which does not promote this whole idea of thinking and learning and developing.
[01:00:10] You know hey you you you you you enter that room wrong.
[01:00:15] This is probably one of the first little. First little things that I noticed as I'm peeling back my career when I was at team one.
[01:00:30] And I was I would be instructing and I was never the lead instructor but I go out we'd be doing some close quarter combat training and someone would do something.
[01:00:44] Make a decision and some of the instructors some of the more old school instructors would say something along the lines of you went left that was wrong.
[01:00:58] Hey why did you go left and they'd say well when I approached the door I looked at the hinges I could see which way it was going to open and I thought it would be the quickest way and you go okay.
[01:01:12] Here's the thing and maybe there's a rebel that maybe there's a hey listen you wait just you know you can't you can't presume that because you saw this that's going to happen maybe it's the wrong but maybe you go okay.
[01:01:28] And I used to say to guys hey you did what you did you did what you did look you're going to be going in the house as you've never been in before that's the whole goal of this that you can go in a room you've never been before and you're going to react how you react we need to understand why you're reacting that way if it's if there's a better way to do it let's think about it.
[01:01:49] But let's not. X out what you did as if this was the wrong thing by the way you don't get a second chance in combat you did you whatever you just did you just did and now you got to deal with it.
[01:02:04] Think about from a leadership standpoint to what actually helps that person more than you could do something like jacca that was wrong.
[01:02:17] You actually made do it the way I told you to do it maybe you will maybe you won't maybe you're just stubborn you're gonna not but you're going to just do what you do.
[01:02:37] You're going to get you're going to get you're going to do that but just by asking the question and you and I almost knew what you're going to say was hey just tell me why you did that it doesn't mean that they're still right.
[01:02:47] But it means that you actually want to understand what they were thinking and if you understand what they're thinking it's so much easier to train and work with them that if you're just trying to force them into what you want them to do.
[01:02:56] That's incredible is this section captures that whole thought process in the title of the section a learner centric model so if you're a trainer you're an instructor.
[01:03:07] So often people set up instruction as if it's around me right this instruction around me hey this is how you doing arm lock right this is how you do watch me and then do what I just did instead of hey let me see your arm lock you know does this Dean Lister.
[01:03:25] You do something and when we were at camp up in Maine people would say hey.
[01:03:32] Pete so awesome and I'd be like oh why they'd say he was he came from across the room so giant mat space thousands of square feet of mat with a hundred people on it and they'd say he came from across the room.
[01:03:47] Hey I see where you're putting your foot on this position and it'd be better if you'd move it four inches over here to the right try it and then it would work.
[01:03:57] So it's learner centric it's not about Dean it's actually about the students and that's a Dean's very good at that it's fully it's fully about the learner it's a learner centric model.
[01:04:12] The Marine but I think I think that there is an old school mentality of instruction in the Marine Corps possibly I was never in the Marine Corps but I did go through multiple training events with the Marine Corps and I definitely saw some instructor centric models.
[01:04:33] And I think actually Dean dealt with some instructor centric models Dean went up to do some combat and training with the Marine Corps and the instructors were there.
[01:04:43] And instead of them being like okay well how would you do this Dean Lister multiple time world champion did you do how would you do a rear naked choke and said they were saying we do it like this.
[01:04:56] And Dean said okay try that on me guess what there's some holes in the plan.
[01:05:04] Check.
[01:05:08] Next section self and the caveat haven't thrown it out there yet no I'm not reading this whole entire book we're skipping big chunks you can get it yourself it's free it's online it's PDF you can download it the Marine Corps is very generous with their knowledge.
[01:05:24] Next section self directed learning like mission tactics self directed learning benefits the leader and instructor by giving the learner more ownership and autonomy.
[01:05:36] Which enables the leader or instructor to focus on learners who need more help or to explore alternate ways to improve the learning environment.
[01:05:47] The commander leader instructor or mentor agrees to provide the learners with the necessary support and guidance to help them accomplish their missions without unnecessarily prescribing their actions.
[01:05:59] Oh these Angela's command.
[01:06:02] We we want you to know how to do this we want you to take ownership of what you learned.
[01:06:09] Why because then you're going to be more invested in it.
[01:06:12] Just.
[01:06:19] Good to go.
[01:06:21] Vicarious experiences critical because even the most realistic training experiences in military education fall short of the reality of combat.
[01:06:24] Therefore the more vicarious experience that a marine obtains.
[01:06:28] It the less likely that a new experience in combat or otherwise will be completely unique yes you cannot simulate everything.
[01:06:35] I used to joke about this if trade it I would say.
[01:06:40] Unfortunately I can't just shoot you guys you know and they laugh because we do everything else.
[01:06:46] I was standing with the commanding officer of a sealed team as one of his seal task units was out in the.
[01:06:55] Out in the desert in the Imperial Valley of California and there was total may I'm going on and we both have radio is on were listening to all the calls getting made their strobes going off.
[01:07:07] There's there's explosions going off there's communication.
[01:07:11] We're just all this is happening and it's we have the perfect view there's guys on the rich and we're looking at like a bowl.
[01:07:22] A valley and then guys are up on the ridge lines and you can see them all from our vantage point.
[01:07:28] And I just looked at him I said there is no better training in the world for a guy's been what these guys are you so realistic it was so.
[01:07:36] So crazy.
[01:07:40] But my point was even with that there was things that you can't simulate you there's things that you cannot simulate and so you have to use these.
[01:07:51] Vicarious experiences so that people can learn.
[01:07:57] Continuing on Marines can use mental imagery to gain confidence prior to executing a skill emphasize key points in after action to reviews.
[01:08:05] Examine possible outcomes of decisions and explor options mental imagery also provides an effective mission rehearsal technique when using mental imagery a leader pictures himself or herself in the operation.
[01:08:17] Vividly visualizes different scenarios including possible branches and sequels and rehearses the decisions he or she may make given specific conditions and enemy actions this way.
[01:08:30] The leader mentally prepares for multiple potential enemy actions and reduces the possibility of surprise when the enemy reacts now.
[01:08:40] What you're trying to do is close the gap.
[01:08:43] Between how hard you can train and what it's really going to be like right and you can look you cannot fully get there you can't fully get there there's emotions that you cannot trigger unless someone is about could die right now right in jetzu right there's.
[01:09:04] You train for mma not even jzu mma we can throw punches we can grapple we can exhaust them we can do all these things but you can't have them walking into the octagon of the ufc even if you and I used it like we when we used to spore we stood on Saturdays when there's a crowd here get the crowd to start commenting you can do all those things.
[01:09:28] But that last little thing you cannot simulate you cannot simulate and so you want to build up you want to close that gap as much as possible part of it is through the training part of it is through these vicarious experiences and reading and learning about it but there was a guy on the uf online today saying hey I understand that I'm supposed to detach but there comes a point when it starts happening and I.
[01:09:52] How do I get ready for that yeah. And the thing was I the advice I gave him I was a little let's say I was a little nervous about the advice I gave this guy.
[01:10:04] Because I was saying hey you need to set yourself up for surprise things that you're not ready for you actually want to tell like if I want to get ready to defend myself and not freak out I need to tell echo hey man occasionally I want you to just attack me.
[01:10:22] And here's where you got to be careful if you do that let's say you go okay all right I got this and you start tracking on me and one night at vans.
[01:10:34] You know I'm out there getting some picking up some steak and you I get into my car or whatever I'm getting in my car you spring out of somewhere and start yelling and screaming with a knife in your hand to see how I react and next thing you know you got to shit to to gunshots to the head.
[01:10:50] Right and how am I going to explain that one away right it's going to be tough.
[01:10:54] Yes. So we got to be we got to do after put some parameters around it because I don't want to shoot you.
[01:11:00] Wait that's what is that essentially I mean obviously not the shooting thing but that's what that's what your answer was.
[01:11:06] Well what I said was listen you know talk to your wife and have your wife throw scenarios at you and then I had to give the same parameters because if you go imagine if you said and I said listen.
[01:11:16] But you want to practice being in these turbulent situations you have to be in them as close as you can get so I said if you tell your wife that say hey I want you to throw some just crazy stress at me.
[01:11:28] When you know and don't even do it to me today or tomorrow wait like a week till I really don't expect it.
[01:11:34] But then I told him hey you need to put some parameters around us right because his wife might come home and say his wife might come home and say I've decided to leave you.
[01:11:43] I think he goes good I was going to leave you anyway all the stuff.
[01:11:46] Yeah, all the stuff.
[01:11:47] All the stuff.
[01:11:48] So we have to put parameters on it.
[01:11:50] We have to think through it.
[01:11:52] But if you really want to to get someone used to being under stress that's what you do you put them under stress.
[01:12:00] That's what you do and it's hard to do that if you if someone knows it's a roleplay there's a little thing in the background of mine.
[01:12:06] But if they don't.
[01:12:08] Hey you can you can create a lot of stress on someone.
[01:12:12] Yeah, if you fail that like those test scenarios that they spring out at you if you fail that test you can do some damage and you're really.
[01:12:20] That's what I'm saying.
[01:12:21] You're going to be going to be a little bit of thinking too man because what if yeah what if your wife says like essentially a fake.
[01:12:28] Yeah, like whatever I'm leaving you I'm mad at even like something small let's say okay.
[01:12:33] Hey you didn't take out that trash or whatever and just with a slight attitude what if I fail the test and it'd be like you snow my job I bring up something that actually does.
[01:12:41] Really in real life trigger her a little just a little bit for sure. She's playing the role, but a what if she can't detach either you know which is normal.
[01:12:49] And now it just escalates from there and there which started to be a test now.
[01:12:53] Man, relationship.
[01:12:54] It's like the office the fire test with.
[01:12:57] It's right right.
[01:12:59] It's supposed to be a test now we got people throw copy machines out the window.
[01:13:04] Yeah, it's a military we grew up with something called and I assume you got the same thing we had something called the training time out.
[01:13:11] So, in this scenario like they'd brief the okay we're going to go do this training and if something happens that you exceed a threshold of whatever you put your hands up on a tea or you put your arm up and say time out and then we'll stop the drill.
[01:13:23] We're just going to like rudimentary training you do that and so.
[01:13:26] Kind of always knew in the back of your mind like okay.
[01:13:29] This could get bad, but if it gets too bad I can stop the training.
[01:13:32] What would be certain or what what would be like an example of my recollection of the first time that I was briefed on the training time out was during like the first week of TBS where we do swim call.
[01:13:45] The first thing you do swim call yeah the water is hey look if you know where there's five instructors there's 40 dudes in a put to and we're watching you but if you get to a place where you or you can't handle this you can throw the hands up and we'll see that will stop the training.
[01:13:59] So you can introduce this concept early on and then you know as you evolved in in fighter aviation we have the knock it off which is actually kind of like in someone is kind of like tapping so I can do this fight with you and we're finally if I get to a point where I feel like.
[01:14:11] I've reached a limit like I don't think this is safe anymore I can't keep doing this or whatever I can say knock it off and you will stop training you will stop being the aggressor say.
[01:14:20] But you don't get to do that in combat there is no training time out there is no knock it off but it's impossible for any training scenario to remove that thing of hey if your life is now at risk.
[01:14:30] There is no training situation that we would love that to happen we would never get to a place where you're going to get hurt or killed to prove a point.
[01:14:38] But you actually kind of know that subconsciously and so that limit is there that's the gap that's the gap that's right the gap is when you've got a platoon of guys and they're receiving.
[01:14:51] Enemy fire air quote enemy fire and one of the guys just gets up and charges you know the bad guy and it's great and he happens to get him or whatever but.
[01:15:04] And it goes both ways too because I used to explain that's what evens it out for our training what evens it out is the bad guys the up my up for they don't care if they die either because they they're going to get reset and we'll go again.
[01:15:22] But actually the mousha had been often didn't care if they died and so they have an advantage there we care about our friends we care about our comrades and arms so we're going to fight a different way than the mousha.
[01:15:35] And that's just they don't care not all the time but that's a part of their mindset is hey if I die that's cool martyrdom case they would have suicide missions yes I we don't do that we don't really like hey the look you're going to die on this one I want to talk about the plane we don't do that no and they would have they would do that actually all the time yeah and that and that.
[01:15:56] The I think the point by this there are things that you simply cannot replicate and that's that's one of them not just the risk to your own life that you're going to mitigate but the willingness of the other person to have no regard for that.
[01:16:08] Yeah which is something it's hard you cannot get that gap will always persist until you experience it for the first time.
[01:16:13] Yeah and then you got to try and close that gap to the best of your ability and the way you do that is different instructors different angles and then as I talk about here vicarious living vicarious experience hey tell me what that was like from you and there's a chance that you go you know what oh I know what I remember this guy remember this I've seen this before.
[01:16:35] This whole book starts off with Matt is saying hey you shouldn't be surprised by anything you should have read about it there's no thing that you can't see something like that before.
[01:16:43] Which is what they're going for all right so going back to the book here go back the if to rewind a little bit so the whole test about the guy that you're.
[01:16:53] I'm giving advice to the you know okay have yourself tested what have you tested put yourself in the pressure scenarios yeah for detachment practice essentially.
[01:17:05] So.
[01:17:05] I think first I think those should always be at a level one that's I think just for safe if that's your meaning we don't want we don't want.
[01:17:13] I'll try to catch to hydroshots to the great yeah bonds parking lot yeah so I'm threatening my state.
[01:17:23] So if you're weak or let's say detaching in moments like that or part of your maybe weakness will say which is why.
[01:17:29] I'm actually a question for the training right so it is a weakness so we got to figure there's some possibility that I'm not going to detach I'm not going to see that you and I'm just cracking off my rounds.
[01:17:40] So yeah so I think level one to I don't know this is my been but I think part of or it's the very least the beginning of the answer to someone with that kind of like a detachment kind of weakness or whatever.
[01:17:52] Is the leadership primer you call it yes okay so before you even said the word leadership primer.
[01:18:00] I would essentially prime myself by doing this and a lot of people do do this they'll like tell me this they'll be like what would jacco do in the situation like anytime a stressful situation came up or decision had to be made they'll be like oh what would jacco do.
[01:18:13] In fact also make sure this is what would jacco do kind of thing and like yeah.
[01:18:18] So essentially thought the same thing but not what would jacco do but more like hey I'm the leader so what should the leader do right now you know it's like or and so along with being the leader is it's your responsibility.
[01:18:30] You can you cannot it's against life rules to blame anyone else you have to take 100% of the blame and come up with 100% of the solution if someone helps you good but you have to come with 100% of the solution right now even if you're being attacked and feeling under appreciated blood blood 100% up to you.
[01:18:47] To cut to to manufacture a good outcome right.
[01:18:51] So so that's essentially what would jacco do right that's like the press well I would essentially prime myself like if something some stressful situation that's the rule like any stress that comes in some bigger small boom I'm the leader you just you have to essentially prime yourself into being like the leader and what's hard is.
[01:19:10] Is being primed right because you're you're not walking around like that it takes a long time to develop the instinct of your very first reaction your initial reaction.
[01:19:21] Is detached take a step back and take a breath and make sure you understand what's happening that's a really hard thing to train in yourself it's a really hard thing to train yourself so.
[01:19:32] For the leadership primer which again this is the F online we got this thing called the leadership primer where you you know you can just press play leadership leadership primer it's me saying hey this is what you think about this and it just gets you in the leadership mindset because.
[01:19:47] If you're there already that's one less step you have to say hey if I tell you hey echo you're going to walk in that room and you're going to get no fight.
[01:19:58] If I tell you that there's a guy waiting to fight you in that room you are going to do eight times better than if you just walk into that room thinking about you know getting sushi.
[01:20:07] Right you're going to do eight times better minimal.
[01:20:10] You're going to be ready you're going to be primed you're going to be thinking you're going to be looking for an exit you're going to be looking for an entrance you're going to see what is we're going to size up your target all that's going to happen the second you walk in there if you're not expecting it all it doesn't happen at all.
[01:20:22] So getting yourself thinking that way is absolutely important and you know I'll take this whole thing one step further.
[01:20:29] The idea of like what what would jocou do I get it as like a leadership primer.
[01:20:36] You actually have to ask yourself one level deeper than that which is for lack of a better way of explaining it.
[01:20:45] What would jocou actually do right now because the surface answer of what would jocou do is like oh you just beat tf through this right that's the surface answer.
[01:20:57] It's not the real answer and that's the difference and I did a bad job sometimes in the teams of guys that worked with me but they didn't they got the surface jocou but they didn't get the next level and so they.
[01:21:12] Go overseas and have to report to some army.
[01:21:16] Some army major that.
[01:21:18] They didn't get along with and they think what would jocou do jocou would tell this guy better straight himself out no and actually that's the wrong answer.
[01:21:26] Jocou would actually develop an awesome relationship with this guy get to know him really well and start planning seeds in his head where we ran everything that's what jocou would do so it's a little bit.
[01:21:36] Deeper than that you have to go next level before we end up priming ourselves for.
[01:21:43] Hey if it's just like this if if I said okay echo when you go in this room someone's going to get attack you and you walk in first person you see you punch him in the face.
[01:21:52] And it ends up being whatever.
[01:21:56] Someone that didn't serve right.
[01:21:58] That's a problem.
[01:21:59] Yeah you were overly primed and you didn't really think through the problem.
[01:22:03] So there's a there's another level there that you got to go.
[01:22:07] Yeah but to your point correct.
[01:22:10] How can you get yourself primed you know I talk about leadership strategy and tactics there's a list of 12 things to do as a leader and like look you can't read this list of 12 things to be like okay good cool now.
[01:22:22] No if you're a new leader and you check in before you go into the meeting with your subordinate or with your leader you just take a look take three minutes and read through the thing to be like all right.
[01:22:31] I'm thinking the right way. I've got my mind primed for what I'm going to go make happen right now and when somebody blames me for something instead of going actually my fault at all.
[01:22:40] It said you go.
[01:22:41] Yeah okay like you know let me get out my notebook and actually write down what you're saying.
[01:22:45] Yeah.
[01:22:46] So I can make sure I can get it fixed because I don't want to be the person that's responsible for making mistakes.
[01:22:51] But I'm ready to take it on and fix it boom.
[01:22:55] Yeah and and of course just to be clear too like I'd by no means I'm saying people hey do this this is what all you got to do or not all you got it this way you got to do.
[01:23:05] After some of what we're talking to I'm not like advocating that at all.
[01:23:10] I'm saying that is a different way of explaining what I would do and it's so it wasn't like what would you go do it was what would like the leader quote unquote leader do and I used you as a reference and here's the thing I know you're second and.
[01:23:24] Even sometimes third level like I know I think I do anyway it's been effective with.
[01:23:31] Behaving like I do put it away.
[01:23:33] So to me I just worked on being that way the whole time 100% at the time because it's easier to like deprive than it is to like prime one year like laid on the priming kind of thing situation in one of the situation arises you know.
[01:23:47] Yeah and here's where all this is hard right all this is hard is that.
[01:23:57] There's a gap that you got to be able to fill that's that's what this is all about the gap is I'm I can get primed for so much I can think about what I'm going to do and how I'm going to act and I'm going to make this call and if somebody confronts my ego I'm going to detach but then.
[01:24:07] The person that you didn't expect to confront your ego the person that you didn't expect to say a nasty comment to you that happens and before you can get.
[01:24:17] Think through it you go well who you even be called out someone with what you did last quarter and all of a sudden we've got an escalation on our hands.
[01:24:26] So how do you get ready for that the answer is you do these training scenarios and you as much as you can you say look.
[01:24:36] Hey Dave I've been having a problem losing my temper with people can you do me favor and just put me through some temper tests.
[01:24:42] Yeah now look we got to put some safety parameters about it because I don't want to save the save the save the save says Dave says you know.
[01:24:50] Hey Jocco this is a good example for you to set an echelon front if you're not even submitting this paperwork on time and I go.
[01:24:58] Well you're looking even at echelon front Dave I don't even know why you're here and all of a sudden we have a real bra.
[01:25:08] About this right so let's put some control parameters in place I know and then immediately Dave called the creative time out because it's about to get you know we're about to do.
[01:25:14] So if you throw everything under the bus why because you was role playing so yes you got to put parameters around it but other than that like if you want to see how you're going to react.
[01:25:27] No hydrish locks to your friends chest because they surprise you trying to steal your steak.
[01:25:45] You know who tries to get me to take some kind of a training time out.
[01:25:49] Yeah see and that's the thing and that's a whole rabbit hole to bread there's so many ways to do that to call for a training time because.
[01:25:57] Injutsu it's like sure there is the training time out straight up like hey that's one of them oh yeah like you can let's say I'm I'm you know maybe kind of injured or maybe just a super you know let's say I'm a smaller person less like physical capability against a crazy you know 21 year old.
[01:26:15] 235 pound white belt spas right I can call a training time out I can be like hey like I respect you but this seems like kind of dangerous I'm not kind of training with you specific that's a training time out really.
[01:26:29] You know you're going to have a high level you just to put your out of shape and you're going with the monster guy who's who's really good at you to get in the better you you're guessing you're like you're getting you can beat down is what and you kind of don't like that you can call it a little training time out.
[01:26:46] The here's where the subtlety kind of arise you can like fake an injury you can be like oh like oh my finger was caught in your shirt your shorts or something to give you like.
[01:26:58] And again it's a spectrum you can get like maybe 10 seconds training time out think about can do or you can give yourself maybe like a minute or guys used to do.
[01:27:05] I remember rolling with a guy and he was a higher belt than me and I wasn't shaped I wasn't better than him but I was a guy kept going going going any kept like we're doing key and he kept like.
[01:27:15] Coach take no no he take time to tie his belt again and like bro where are you and bro our belts fly off you just keep training right.
[01:27:23] He kept like to and the kind like flagrantly taking like 20 30 seconds to tie his belt they did like six times that's a training time out to the only thing about I think a training time out.
[01:27:35] Is is known and the right side like a training time out you're talking about little tactics little sneaky little tactics to catch a breath.
[01:27:45] I'd rather catch a breath over here so it's a little bit different but there are I mean tapping out as kind of a training time out.
[01:27:57] Yeah well a training time out would be like actually remember when used to be claustrophobic when you remember when used to be more claustrophobic.
[01:28:06] You would kind of you're training time out was I look I didn't have a submission on you at all but you would tap out and to say I there was a guy when I was at team two that I used to train with and he would get so mad.
[01:28:18] And he would just go.
[01:28:21] He would just be just get off me and then I'd get off me like go.
[01:28:27] He would be so like mad at me as a person.
[01:28:37] When you would make it known that you were trying to make me claustrophobic it'd be less claustrophobic.
[01:28:44] The most claustrophobic I would get from you is one like you'd be pinning me down and it seemed like this was part of your like tactic to like slowly submit me like.
[01:28:55] I'd have this feeling like I'm never going to get out of this like situation and I'm probably going to die under here kind of thing but if you're like one time this is what you did you were like.
[01:29:05] Oh you're better at your claustrophobic now watch it kind of you said something along these lines and then you put all your weight on and you put your feet on the wall.
[01:29:13] So all your weight was on me and you're essentially saying whatever we're using you're saying like yeah like how does that feel kind of thing.
[01:29:19] And I was like proud I'm not claustrophobic at all right now.
[01:29:21] You want to know why you are primed. I told you I was going to do it you were ready for it you were ready with the resist.
[01:29:28] Yeah and my mental state was kind of like this me gets you know if I'm against any claustrophobic situation like my mind that the battle is different.
[01:29:36] Yeah.
[01:29:37] Interesting that is interesting.
[01:29:41] Back to the book.
[01:29:42] Marines need time to reflect on new learning experience to exploit their lessons self reflection internalizes experience and increases mental preparedness for employment across the range of military operations.
[01:29:54] So you're going to think about what happened little thing about Madison here and then on to general Al Grey.
[01:30:01] And they're the sum of what it's saying about that they're saying Marines need to make time to reflect in order to build understanding exploit lessons and be ready to adapt to situations change.
[01:30:15] So you kind of have to debrief then you have to debrief yourself.
[01:30:22] Next section the role of the instructor regardless of the location of location or position marine instructors are knowledgeable skilled competent and confident in their abilities.
[01:30:33] Once again, this is a statement of fact.
[01:30:35] That's the way marine instructors are their knowledgeable skilled competent and competent in their abilities.
[01:30:42] Fast forward a little bit assessments.
[01:30:45] Assessments are employed to provide learners with constructive feedback so that they can further develop professionally rather than an arbitrary test score that does not capture growth or change.
[01:30:57] The most effective instructors use the coach teach mentor approach to provide learners with constructive feedback.
[01:31:10] You know, as we covered the code the evaluations and the protocols and I think I got asked somebody asked me.
[01:31:19] Would you recommend doing this in a company, you know, in a company and I'm like, yeah, the biggest problem with the Navy and the Marine Corps evaluation systems is that they're annual.
[01:31:32] So only coming out once a year, this idea here that you have to provide assessments more often than that. They don't necessarily need to be official, but you got to give people feedback.
[01:31:45] Fast forward learners and instructors like should understand that Marines learn because of their errors, not despite them.
[01:31:55] Isn't that a, isn't that a smart thing to think to yourself, is that my employees, my support, it's my kids echo Charles are going to learn because of their errors.
[01:32:13] Changes your mindset a little bit when the kids make a mistake, it's their turn to learn.
[01:32:20] Next section, technology and supportive learning. Just as MCDP one confirms that war is a human enterprise and that no amount of technology can reduce the human dimension.
[01:32:33] For learning environment is also primarily based on human characteristics rather than equipment. Technology can support expand an individual individualized learning. It is one of the many tools to support learning objectives. So look, it's it's a tool.
[01:32:50] Technology is a tool, but it doesn't replace the human element of learning. The conclusion here.
[01:33:03] Battle is the ultimate test of military learning and training as Marines will fight is a time honored Marine Corps principle train as you fight. In preparing for battle Marines leverage the art and science of learning along with helpful technologies to enhance learning environments.
[01:33:21] Taylor learning experiences and provide constructive feedback to accelerate learning.
[01:33:27] There you go. And now we get into the last section of this chapter for the learning leader.
[01:33:38] Hmm, it all just kind of comes together in this section for doesn't it the learning leader leadership and learning are indispensable to each other John F Kennedy.
[01:33:50] The future operating environment will place new demands on leaders at all levels are leaders must have the training education and experience to meet those demands.
[01:34:00] And that's general done for 36 common done of the Marine Corps and the 19th chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
[01:34:10] And the last quote throughout history the difference between brilliant brilliantly performing armies and mediocre ones has always depended on a small handful of combat leaders.
[01:34:26] And that is Dave Berks friend John Boyd.
[01:34:30] Throughout history leadership has been the most important thing on the battlefield.
[01:34:35] Small handful of combat leaders.
[01:34:38] When you're in a in a what's it called when there's a whole bunch of airplane in the sky one of those all those airplanes together called.
[01:34:48] Is that like a squadron is that a is at a wing.
[01:34:51] So if you're going on a on a soul when you call all those aircraft together we'd call an air wing in the Navy and ring or and if you're going you would you go on a mission like I would go on a mission with a seal puttune you would go on a mission with an air wing.
[01:35:04] Everybody you'd be the air wing and there's smaller components of that you know you'd have like.
[01:35:09] Section division a section that's right you'd break them down much like you know fire team squad things like that.
[01:35:15] Is it true or is it is it also true in an air wing on an assault that a couple combat a couple good leaders good pilots can make a big difference that is true.
[01:35:27] Oh really absolutely.
[01:35:30] We're working together in pairs basically is that the smallest unit that we're working in.
[01:35:35] Yeah, despite the fact that there is an erling a there's a Marine Corps air you know madtuff an air wing component in the Navy has an air wing the most common formation that we go out there is a two sometimes a for ship but a two ship formation we call to this section.
[01:35:48] Is the most common warfighting element when things break down into individual implementation.
[01:35:54] And how many how many aircraft how many sections would you go out roll out on on a.
[01:36:02] On a mission that you would train for a top gun and the reason I'm saying that like I like when you talk about and you have multiple aircraft like sort of the FTX scenario the final training exercises.
[01:36:11] How many aircraft are going out how many sections.
[01:36:14] Top gun with the culmination of a top gun would be four sections be eight aircraft eight aircraft going out to assault the target then some some bogeys come out.
[01:36:23] A lot and they are going to try and bring it and so does the.
[01:36:29] Do the sections have a overall leader yes.
[01:36:33] If that guy's not quite as good, but there's a couple pipe hitters in there all the difference in the world all the difference in the world.
[01:36:38] I think all the same fundamentals that you've always talked about if you put them into.
[01:36:44] Leadership in the air it's exactly the same thing.
[01:36:46] It you do not have to be the mission commander to be the most influential leader in the formation.
[01:36:54] Logitech.
[01:36:55] When you go with the air wing to found Nevada.
[01:37:01] How many how many aircraft roll out on those mission now you're talking you know you could have 20 now you'd have much much bigger much more complex different missions all at the same time a lot more coordination 20 aircraft plus sometimes.
[01:37:15] And that's the carrier group going up to found to run big exercise is getting ready for deployment and a carrier group would be you know three full squadges a 12 you'd have a squadron of six you'd have a squadron of four you know you'd have 40 50 airplanes in an air wing.
[01:37:29] I did that trip.
[01:37:31] Three I did three strike group carrier interoperabilities and found yeah which is just so so lucky on my part as I was a rate for for two of my was ready.
[01:37:43] I mean for one of them I was the Jay assistant to commander but just the amount of visibility that gave me.
[01:37:51] Because it wasn't normal for seals to do that trip we would have a couple seals that or station up there.
[01:37:57] But we but to actually get up to be able to go up there and go in the field and do all the closer support very very healthy.
[01:38:04] Yeah we did some long patrols to from one end of that valley over to the other end.
[01:38:11] 12 12 kilometers and a night lay up for the day recover a down pilot 12 kilometers back out the next night.
[01:38:20] Did you ever get to be the down pilot up there?
[01:38:23] No never did.
[01:38:24] I know exactly what you're talking about.
[01:38:25] I know you got to assign the down pilot.
[01:38:28] Because that guy had to walk half those.
[01:38:31] It was not a job most people would.
[01:38:33] Yeah they didn't seem to be chilling too.
[01:38:35] Isn't winter time?
[01:38:36] Yeah we did every air wing and every every course went through you to have a down pilot scenario.
[01:38:40] And you send a guy out there.
[01:38:43] Side track two things and two things in my time in the seal teams.
[01:38:48] Where I got to see something in nature that a normal person doesn't get to see.
[01:38:54] One of them locked out of a submarine in the middle of the Pacific Ocean.
[01:38:59] And it was it was the brightest blue is a daytime or a lunar rehearsal.
[01:39:04] It was the brightest blue.
[01:39:06] Most beautiful ocean and it was not it was incredible visibility.
[01:39:12] And there was like a pot of dolphins coming alongside of us and just swimming.
[01:39:16] That's number one.
[01:39:17] Number two.
[01:39:18] I'm in Fallen Nevada.
[01:39:20] I'm in a helicopter.
[01:39:22] And it's early spring.
[01:39:25] So there's still snow on the ground.
[01:39:27] And we're flying nap of the earth up through these hills.
[01:39:31] And we come across a pack of wild moustangs horses that are charging through the mountains.
[01:39:39] And we're we're we're so low close to them.
[01:39:42] And they're and we're like slightly above the tree line or whatever.
[01:39:46] I don't know if there's a tree line, but there's no trees.
[01:39:48] Very black shrubs and these things are just charged.
[01:39:50] It's big pack of wild moustangs.
[01:39:52] It was freaking epic.
[01:39:53] I want to cool things and I've ever seen.
[01:39:55] In nature that's one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
[01:39:57] All right.
[01:39:59] So leaders at all levels are responsible for their own learning while supporting their subordinates development.
[01:40:07] Each marine is either a leader or a future leader, whether by rank or by their experience and influence on other.
[01:40:13] You know, that's something I said at the early moustards.
[01:40:16] I think I said it every moustard, but that would say training is the solemn duty of the leaders.
[01:40:22] Because if you got some training command and they're not doing what they're supposed to do, you need to still do it.
[01:40:27] You need to make it happen. You're in charge of training.
[01:40:30] You're in charge of education. You're in charge of making sure people learn.
[01:40:38] An excellent way to master a topic is to endeavor to teach it well to other Marines.
[01:40:43] Marines can develop leadership skills and improve communication skills through learning.
[01:40:47] Marine succeed with leadership styles that provide clear intent through mission type orders and decentralized execution.
[01:40:55] We are in full support of this document.
[01:40:58] You want to get good at something, by the way? Teach it.
[01:41:00] Yeah. Teach it. Do you think your leadership capabilities improve since you got to ask your own front and you teach leadership?
[01:41:07] I wrote a note when I was going through this myself. I wrote down the word leading is teaching.
[01:41:12] I was just a note. I just put in the margins. I was just running through this document a couple of times.
[01:41:16] The answer to question is yes. I do.
[01:41:20] That is a...
[01:41:22] Yeah. So it's...
[01:41:25] You... just even though you describe it, it can be a little bit of a slippery slope.
[01:41:28] You said as a leadership instructor, echelon front,
[01:41:31] was kind of implies my job is actually to teach.
[01:41:35] I'm an instructor. I'm here to teach leadership and as leadership,
[01:41:39] leaders at all levels were responsible for their own learning.
[01:41:42] I assure you that at a minimum, it's equal and the truth is it's probably tenfold my favor.
[01:41:48] I have learned way, way, way more than what I have taught.
[01:41:53] In terms of like, what I get at...
[01:41:55] Because every time I teach something, assuming I do the things we talk about,
[01:41:59] I learn something while doing it.
[01:42:01] And I've told youth as a bunch. That's been the biggest surprise of my second career.
[01:42:06] Was having to acknowledge if how much more that is for me to learn out there.
[01:42:10] So just that title leadership instructor. If you have the word instructor anywhere in there,
[01:42:14] I was at Top Gun and Shutter, whatever it is.
[01:42:16] Your job is actually to learn and then help impart that with other people.
[01:42:20] Not just that you are the teacher.
[01:42:22] I got so lucky that when I was at Sealtime 1, as a young and list guy,
[01:42:28] I eventually went into the training cell and taught and taught everything.
[01:42:34] Luckily, and just seeing it, teaching it, you get so much...
[01:42:40] Such a much better understanding of the subject that you are trying to teach.
[01:42:47] That's the coolest thing about being a student at Top Gun is that Marine Corps
[01:42:51] sends you to Top Gun to come back to be an instructor just in your squadron.
[01:42:55] You don't have necessarily the title of instructor, but as a Top Gun graduate,
[01:42:59] especially when you are on the boat, if you are not flying, there is really not much else to do.
[01:43:03] So you are training. That's all you are doing. You are training.
[01:43:06] And so every brief, everything you are doing, it doesn't mean you teach all the briefs.
[01:43:11] It might be that you take a brand new guy and go, hey, you are going to give a brief on how the countermeasures system works in the F-18.
[01:43:17] And you in my mind, I might know that thing, like I could draw that thing out down to the battery.
[01:43:23] But this guy doesn't know anything about it.
[01:43:26] But as the Top Gun graduate, you are responsible for either teaching or training every single thing that goes on.
[01:43:31] That is the coolest part about being a Top Gun graduate is that you are the focal point
[01:43:35] of making sure the squadron gets trained. And so you get to be part of all the training evolutions.
[01:43:40] How many Top Gun instructors on average would there be at a squadron?
[01:43:44] Two. If you are really lucky, sometimes you have a third patch where pretty common, one, maybe two.
[01:43:53] Yeah, they ended up kind of buying necessity, but also just by design.
[01:43:59] And it kind of ended up that when I was in the field teams in the early days, you would go to training cell,
[01:44:05] add a team, the team owned their own training cell, and you'd be in there.
[01:44:09] And if things worked out because you were whatever, you didn't have orders for a certain amount of time
[01:44:16] or you had already done a bunch of deployments that put you in training cell.
[01:44:20] And a lot of guys didn't want to go to training cell because hey, you know, why would you want to go to training cell?
[01:44:25] You're there to deploy. And I went into training cell as I was putting in my officer packages.
[01:44:31] So it was, hey, going to training cell and it'll give you some time to get, because otherwise it's what are you going to do?
[01:44:36] Do another deployment. Of course. Of course. I'm going to go do another deployment.
[01:44:39] Luckily, the master chief, Master Chief faculty, you know, he told us if you want to get good at this stuff, you need to teach it.
[01:44:47] You need to come in here and teach it. And thank God because that's was hugely that had everything to do.
[01:44:53] Because you're de facto detached when you're struck by the way. When you're watching guys do immediate action drills out in the field,
[01:44:58] you're watching guys clearing rooms, you are de facto detached. You're literally watching that.
[01:45:03] So you can see these mistakes. And if you pay attention to it, you can learn a lot from it.
[01:45:10] Marines hold a special relationship with each other that is akin to the relationship of mature siblings.
[01:45:16] They build each other up, share experiences, and hold each other accountable.
[01:45:20] This relationship begins with shared experiences in entry-level training and instills shared understanding of honor, tradition, and the importance of leadership.
[01:45:31] These are your brothers.
[01:45:34] Learning is necessary to leadership strong leaders promote learning in subordinates.
[01:45:42] Needs no explanation whatsoever. Thank you, nice, his Marine Corps.
[01:45:47] Foster and encourage the next section. Leaders model and set an example of learning for the Marines in their charge by openly seeking out and pursuing professional development for all Marines, including themselves.
[01:46:01] In italics. Yes.
[01:46:03] The number one person that you should be getting to learn is you.
[01:46:08] J.P. was reminding you many other day that at some point I said, hey, you need to start re- it.
[01:46:12] This was when we were back in times. And I told him, hey, here's these websites. You should look at these.
[01:46:19] You know what's going on in the world. You know, just not even news, but more intel kind of driven websites.
[01:46:27] And it's I didn't remember.
[01:46:30] As soon as you reminded me, I remember doing that. But that was me saying, hey, man, you need to know what's going on here.
[01:46:36] As stated, MCDP-1, which is warfiting, a leader without interest in or knowledge of the history and theory of warfare, the intellectual content of the military profession is a leader in appearance only.
[01:46:52] Self-directed study in the art and science of war is at least equal and important to maintaining physical condition and should receive at least equal time.
[01:47:02] You should be working out and studying the profession of arms.
[01:47:07] Leaders who set an example with their actions and words that learning is important for the profession of arms inspire other Marines to learn more about the profession and its application.
[01:47:15] Marine leaders prioritize learning for themselves and others taking an active role to foster and encourage marine learning.
[01:47:26] Leaders foster learning by engaging their Marines taking interest in their well-being and supporting their professional development. Leaders are justifiably proud when their marine succeed.
[01:47:37] Conversely, leaders help them overcome the stakes when they struggle.
[01:47:44] Leaders do not wait for mistakes or failures to highlight a learning opportunity.
[01:47:50] They provide subordinates with the sufficient freedom of action to learn and develop without seating responsibility to monitor supervising correct subordinates actions when necessary.
[01:47:59] We cannot rightly expect subordinates to exercise boldness and initiative in the field when they are accustomed to being over supervised in garrison.
[01:48:07] The goal is for Marines to seek learning opportunities on their own accord even if the leader is not present.
[01:48:13] They've embedded decentralized command into the process of learning in the Marine Corps, making it a part of your very being.
[01:48:24] And if you don't do that, you're putting your Marines lives at risk.
[01:48:28] Factual.
[01:48:31] Teaching and leading. Next section. Teaching and leading cannot be uncopled.
[01:48:38] Think about that one, echoed Charles.
[01:48:41] Marines who cannot teach will struggle as leaders. Strong leaders do not perrate a subordinate for making a first mistake.
[01:48:49] They turn mistakes into teachable moments.
[01:48:54] If you imagine if you don't have control over your temper, someone makes a mistake and you lose your temper, you're just thrown away an opportunity for someone to learn.
[01:49:04] You've squashed their initiative. All kinds of problems.
[01:49:09] Leaders in Kyrrhus Marines pursue learning opportunities and cultivate an open dialogue to discuss lessons learned when mistakes are made.
[01:49:16] It is the leader's responsibility to recognize act on and correct the mistakes by turning them into learning opportunities,
[01:49:22] understanding that it's far better to learn in a training environment than to make mistakes when deployed.
[01:49:32] You know, it's the idea that you're going to take people's mistakes and turning them into teachable moments.
[01:49:45] There's like another kind of thing that I would see.
[01:49:49] And I still see it.
[01:49:51] And that's this underlying, the underlying ego that gets involved.
[01:49:59] The little thing, the little thing that you can't let out of to make this teachable moment for you Dave,
[01:50:06] because obviously this was a little bit tricky for you.
[01:50:09] You know what I mean? Like there's that little thing and even that right there.
[01:50:14] Even that right there.
[01:50:16] Detracts from the learning moment.
[01:50:19] Just when I let my ego shine through my beaty little eyes and tear it into your ego, it's just detracting from the teachable moment.
[01:50:31] What does that look like just like the way you say it?
[01:50:34] No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:50:35] The way I say it, the way I come across with, hey, hey Dave.
[01:50:43] Clearly that question kind of stumped you on the web.
[01:50:47] You know what, why don't you want you, why don't you want you, uh,
[01:50:51] why don't you give me a call later to my, I can help talk you through it.
[01:50:54] You know what I'm saying?
[01:50:55] Yeah, the whole, that's the whole five.
[01:50:57] The whole presentation.
[01:50:59] It also lets the other person know what you think of the relationship.
[01:51:03] This is kind of the nature of our relationship.
[01:51:05] Yes.
[01:51:06] I'm here to mentor you.
[01:51:07] We get this question all the time.
[01:51:09] It's like, hey, I really want to have a mentor.
[01:51:11] I think your answer is actually really good.
[01:51:12] It was like, hey, I never like assigned a mentor or assigned myself as a mentor.
[01:51:16] Either one, you should try to learn from as many people as you can.
[01:51:19] But the one that I would see get people fired up the most is when someone
[01:51:23] to go, bro, I'm trying to help you here.
[01:51:25] And that would send people off all the time, which was, hey, I'm doing you a favor.
[01:51:31] I know something you don't know.
[01:51:32] And I'm here to help you learn even that would put someone who, and look,
[01:51:36] the ego is in both sides because if you were to say that to me,
[01:51:40] even like that would be like, right on, what do you got?
[01:51:43] I mean, that would be my goal as a how I'd respond to that, which is easier,
[01:51:47] easier for some people than for others.
[01:51:48] The ego's on both sides, but totally control your own.
[01:51:50] You can only control it.
[01:51:51] Even if Dave has the most, the most totally humble attitude he's open,
[01:51:56] that's great.
[01:51:57] I got lucky, right?
[01:51:58] But any other guy is going, well, you know, actually, the way you talked about it,
[01:52:04] yesterday did even make sense.
[01:52:05] Yeah, all of a sudden we're in a combative mode.
[01:52:07] What do you know?
[01:52:08] Maybe I'm just running a little training drill on him.
[01:52:10] A little ego to check.
[01:52:13] A little bit.
[01:52:14] I'm sure he's good.
[01:52:15] Yeah, I see that out today.
[01:52:17] I was like, I would my ego to or my test on Jamie.
[01:52:21] I was like yelling, like pretending like I was going to yell at Jamie.
[01:52:24] Did you know you were pretending?
[01:52:25] Yeah, well, I was just using it as an example.
[01:52:27] Okay.
[01:52:28] But Jamie was just smiling because she knows, oh, I know,
[01:52:31] factually that Jamie would be like, okay, Joc, I appreciate it.
[01:52:34] Let me go find out because she would just be escalated because she's dealing with this crap all day long.
[01:52:39] You know, that's what she does.
[01:52:41] You know, you know, so she keeps it real.
[01:52:44] Real, real, real, real.
[01:52:46] All right.
[01:52:47] General John A. Lajoon 13th,
[01:52:51] Commodanda Marine Corps, World War I, general.
[01:52:56] The relations between officers and enlisted men should in no sense be that of superior and inferior,
[01:53:04] nor that of master and servant,
[01:53:06] but rather that of teacher and scholar.
[01:53:09] Now I want to hold up right there because that right there is not correct.
[01:53:15] And if there's a second lieutenant in the United States Marine Corps
[01:53:19] and he's working with his gunnery sergeant, he is by no means by any stretch of the imagination,
[01:53:25] the teacher to a student at all.
[01:53:29] It's the opposite, actually.
[01:53:31] So I think, you know, if you were to take a look at this in present tense, it would read a little bit differently,
[01:53:37] goes on.
[01:53:38] In fact, it should partake of the nature of the relations between father and son.
[01:53:42] Again, that's not a great analogy because if unless you're now flipping it to the gunny is the dad
[01:53:48] and the second lieutenant is the son.
[01:53:51] To the extent that officers, especially commanding officers are responsible for the physical, mental, and moral welfare,
[01:53:58] as well as the discipline and military training of the young men under their command.
[01:54:01] That is true.
[01:54:02] Yeah, I mean, I think I'd picture this in the context of being a senior officer with young,
[01:54:07] junior, and listed very young, junior, and listed Marines.
[01:54:10] But this to me kind of highlights some of the problems with the chain of command.
[01:54:15] The chain of command actually can be really good.
[01:54:17] It's good to have a good chain of commands.
[01:54:18] I've been a well-defined hierarchy, but there are huge pitfalls in that because
[01:54:22] organizationally, as soon as you figure out who you are in the organization, you presume to take on some sort of set of roles that comes with that.
[01:54:30] I think I'm very first podcast.
[01:54:32] You, I haven't talked about my very first job as a lieutenant.
[01:54:36] I got lucky because I had one of those guannies that was like right out of the dream scenario.
[01:54:42] Who do you want to be mentoring you in your first job?
[01:54:45] It was this guy named Gunny Pilgrim.
[01:54:48] Who was like, you couldn't make a better Marine who was my subordinate.
[01:54:55] I was his boss, and in no way was I leading him or teaching him or doing it.
[01:55:02] It was a one-way relationship where I just learned everything that possibly could from him.
[01:55:06] Because he was the type of gunny that knew where he was in the chain of command, but also knew what his job was.
[01:55:10] But it actually does require you to look at where you are in the chain of command and detach from that piece and say,
[01:55:16] where am I in this relationship?
[01:55:18] And what do I actually need to learn from this?
[01:55:20] And if you can view it like that, the chain can have really a sort of insignificant there.
[01:55:24] Because as a junior officer, I had nothing constructed to offer this guy.
[01:55:28] Nothing.
[01:55:29] Gunny Pilgrim.
[01:55:30] Gunny Pilgrim if you're listening.
[01:55:32] He knows what's up.
[01:55:34] We're going to have to bring him on here and get some good stories about second lieutenant.
[01:55:40] We should bring him.
[01:55:41] You weren't second lieutenant, huh?
[01:55:43] You were first lieutenant by the time you got to.
[01:55:46] Yeah, yeah.
[01:55:49] Leaders who, and so that ends that quote.
[01:55:53] And like I said, there's some just some perception that quote that I think is a little bit off.
[01:55:59] A little bit off.
[01:56:00] I think it's more like if you, if you just to say universally on this quote,
[01:56:05] universally what Marines are to each other, Marines are to each other.
[01:56:09] You know, because I can always learn. I can learn from the most junior guy.
[01:56:13] I can learn from the most senior guy.
[01:56:14] So just depending on what dynamics are happening in that relationship,
[01:56:18] you know, I might be the master in one situation in 20 minutes later.
[01:56:23] You're the master, right?
[01:56:25] That can happen because there's different parts of knowledge.
[01:56:28] And you got to be open and flexible to do both those.
[01:56:32] Continuing on, leaders who encourage and open discussion with their Marines about how
[01:56:37] some actions contributed to outcomes will have greater successes at teaching,
[01:56:41] compared to leaders who simply point out mistakes for Marine to improve upon without context or explanation.
[01:56:49] Yeah, then again, I think that's some old school at least in the seal teams that was more old.
[01:56:54] And it wasn't always like this, but there would certainly be some guys in the seal teams in that when I was in the 90s
[01:57:01] that their role as an instructor was to point out your mistakes and tell you how to do it right.
[01:57:06] Not a conversation, just in just instruction.
[01:57:10] That direction is like wrote memorization.
[01:57:13] You tell me to memorize something?
[01:57:15] Cool, I'll memorize it. I'm actually really good at memorizing things.
[01:57:19] I'll memorize it.
[01:57:20] But I really don't want to really want to do is not memorize something.
[01:57:24] I want to learn how to calculate what to actually do based on thought.
[01:57:29] A little note on here about constructive feedback.
[01:57:36] The goal is not a simplistic discussion of the right answer, according to a leader's personal views,
[01:57:42] but rather for the Marine to develop greater self-awareness and understanding of the situation and task,
[01:57:49] and to be able to adapt the lessons learned for future situations.
[01:57:54] Again, not memorization.
[01:58:00] When I went to college, some of my classes were, I wanted to get an A on the test.
[01:58:07] Yeah, you said this about OCS as well.
[01:58:09] Or did you go to OCS or TBS?
[01:58:11] I was talking about TBS.
[01:58:12] Yeah, memorize this.
[01:58:13] Hey, Roger that.
[01:58:14] I will memorize this.
[01:58:15] I will make flashcards.
[01:58:16] I will memorize this.
[01:58:17] And it would have been so much better if every minute that I had spent memorizing things,
[01:58:23] I was actually having a legitimate conversation about what the meaning of these things.
[01:58:27] So learning and the mission.
[01:58:28] Yeah, totally.
[01:58:30] When I went back, we talked about, I think it started with the first one when we did war fighting.
[01:58:35] Which everyone we did, the first Marine Corps Doctoral Pub, you and I did together.
[01:58:38] When I went back to start reading these again, and we've read a bunch of them,
[01:58:42] I read this last one when I was laughing.
[01:58:44] I had so much fun reading this.
[01:58:47] I had no fun reading these pops.
[01:58:49] I read all these pops at the basics school.
[01:58:51] All of them. I didn't enjoy any of it because I didn't have this.
[01:58:54] I wasn't there trying to learn.
[01:58:57] And the mistakes that I made, I think I've said this several times, looking back.
[01:59:02] If it could just figure out how to take the things out of there and have it make sense
[01:59:06] and you're heading to learn something from it, it's actually fun.
[01:59:09] Learning is awesome.
[01:59:11] And I was going back through these pops as an adult.
[01:59:14] I think in my experience reading this, it was nothing like this the first time.
[01:59:18] But a total waste, so much I could have taken from that.
[01:59:21] So I could have learned so much more, so much faster if that's how I viewed reading these things.
[01:59:27] Yeah. Well, that is a big part of the very nature of this podcast.
[01:59:35] Is, hey, don't just read it.
[01:59:40] I'm not just reading this section.
[01:59:43] And that's that. How am I putting it in context with what I've been through?
[01:59:50] How are you putting it through context with what you've been through?
[01:59:53] And then how can someone that's listening take that and tie them together and say, okay.
[01:59:59] Yeah, there's, you know, as soon as you hear me read from a book and then say, oh, that reminds me of,
[02:00:08] I'm just at that moment in time, giving you another angle,
[02:00:12] another piece of context, another way to triangulate that idea in your own head, which is what makes it worth.
[02:00:20] Otherwise, otherwise, people just grab the audiobook or just read the book. Yeah, cool.
[02:00:24] I read the book.
[02:00:26] I even, for me, for me, getting, of course, more out of it than anybody, because I'm reading it and thinking about it.
[02:00:33] And then overlaying and then getting feedback about it.
[02:00:36] So it's this, it's a, it's a, it's a exponential.
[02:00:41] Exponential learning. It's an exponential pressure on my brain.
[02:00:48] Very lucky to be in that situation.
[02:00:53] Continue on, for example, providing topic areas for discussion using the
[02:00:58] Socratic method asking and answering questions to simulate critical thinking, draw out ideas,
[02:01:04] and identify underlying assumptions during during debriefs rather than simply criticizing
[02:01:09] the brain's actions can be much more effective in fostering learning.
[02:01:12] Positive feedback is constructive positive feedback makes learners aware of what they did correctly.
[02:01:17] Reinforces desired behaviors and identifies areas to improve negative feedback that
[02:01:22] unnecessarily tears them, rain down seldom leads to effective learning and can stifle initiative.
[02:01:30] It's a different mindset. This is the type of thing echo when you're talking about
[02:01:35] timing, you know, and priming your brain. If you're an instructor situation, just reading that right there before you go
[02:01:43] and instruct your class is going to help you. It's going to help you teach and it's going to help
[02:01:48] be a blog.
[02:01:51] The next section oddly enough is called humility.
[02:01:56] That's the name of the section by the way. It's just humility.
[02:02:02] When you are a 15 year old kid and you are thinking about which branch of service you are going to
[02:02:10] join and then you are very rapidly coming to the conclusion that the best branch of service to you for you to join
[02:02:17] would be the Marine Corps. You are not thinking about humility.
[02:02:21] You are not thinking about humility. You are thinking, we are the best.
[02:02:26] The Marine Corps is the best. I'm going in the Marine Corps because they are the best.
[02:02:30] You know, humility and that whatsoever.
[02:02:33] And you end up realizing that that's wrong.
[02:02:36] And one of the things that makes the Marine Corps great and makes any organization great is humility, which is why they have a section called humility.
[02:02:45] Here we go back to the book. All Marines, especially those in positions of leadership, can learn from anyone if they are ready and willing to learn.
[02:02:52] However, ego can hinder learning. Commanders, other leaders and instructors learn from the Marines in their charge while also leading those Marines to learn.
[02:03:03] So this is what we just said. I can learn from anybody.
[02:03:06] I can learn from anybody in the chain and command.
[02:03:09] Leaders recognize that humility is a part of the career long learning process.
[02:03:13] The best leaders at the highest levels recognize that the more they learn, the more they need to learn.
[02:03:19] And they set the example for their subordinates.
[02:03:24] How much you don't know. That's the initial stages of Getsu.
[02:03:30] After like your third class, when you think you mastered the whatever, the two moves that you learned and then you realize, oh, wait a second, this never stops.
[02:03:45] Effective leaders also recognize that we are not an expert in every topic.
[02:03:50] So we seek out those who are experts and learn from them regardless of relative rank or position.
[02:03:56] The Marine with the authority, the Marine with authority must make decisions, but until a commander has reached and stated a decision,
[02:04:03] subordinate should consider their duty to provide honest professional opinions even though these might be in disagreement with the seniors opinions.
[02:04:12] As I call that pushback, I want pushback, I need pushback. That's how we pressure test our ideas.
[02:04:19] And of course it's the Marine course. They throw in until you've made your decision.
[02:04:23] As long as that decision comes forward, we're going to get on board with the program.
[02:04:27] Hey, what if it's illegal and moral unethical? We're still going to pushback.
[02:04:32] What if it means, hey, we could get a lot of guys died killed here unnecessarily.
[02:04:37] We're still going to pushback. We need to substrategy and tactics cover that whole thing in agnostic.
[02:04:44] When we were at top, one of the things we had is something called a standardization board, which is like the,
[02:04:50] all the senior instructors to get together to make these really hard decisions. Big decisions that had to be made.
[02:04:55] And as you might guess, you get 26 people in a room, all top gun instructors, all kind of the top of their game,
[02:05:02] you'd have really, really strong opinions. And I think what stood out to me with this comment isn't like the idea,
[02:05:09] hey, I've made a decision. I want you to get on board. Once we've actually gone to the map,
[02:05:14] we've talked to everything. We've made a decision. What I need you to do is be on board.
[02:05:18] Not that you can't dissent, but what I can't have you do is walk out and be like,
[02:05:22] yeah, we're doing this. It wasn't my idea. This is really stupid. But that's what the boss said.
[02:05:26] It's not the same as, hey, we all argued we put it out there. Maybe we wanted an ad direction that isn't what you wanted,
[02:05:32] but it's still going to work. And it's a good idea where we can still do this. And you come out and go, hey, listen,
[02:05:36] there's what we're doing. This is why I'm on board with this. Those are two very different things.
[02:05:40] So questioning those things. There are certainly times to do that. But just because you didn't get your way,
[02:05:45] doesn't mean that it's wrong. It actually might mean that you need to just get on board,
[02:05:49] because you might be the one that maybe you got something to take from that.
[02:05:52] So when we had these stand boards kind of the standing rule was when we're done,
[02:05:56] if you were on the losing argument, that doesn't mean you walk out and go, yeah, well, I lost that argument.
[02:06:02] This is stupid. I'm going to do it, but I'm not really going to do it.
[02:06:06] I'm trying to sit in here, I was kind of racking my brain over here thinking about,
[02:06:12] why is it that me, I in my experience,
[02:06:18] was never, was rarely that I can even remember in a situation where I was saying,
[02:06:27] hey, guys, here's what we're doing. Why is that? Why is it that throughout my career and life?
[02:06:35] So seldom that I can't remember an example of where I said, hey, listen,
[02:06:40] we're not, this is the plan we are going with. Why is that?
[02:06:45] I was sitting here trying to rack my brain and it's pretty obvious and it's like this.
[02:06:51] If Dave comes to me with his idea and his idea sucks,
[02:06:56] it's very easy to explain to him that his idea sucks and he goes, yeah,
[02:07:01] you just poke 14 holes in my 15 ideas. So obviously, that's not scored away.
[02:07:08] So that means it's pretty easy to win an argument when you are that right.
[02:07:13] When you are that right, it's pretty easy to win an argument and I'm decent at arguing.
[02:07:21] So if Dave comes to me with a crappy idea, it's not hard for me to go,
[02:07:27] yeah, Dave, I get what you're trying to say, but this, this, this and this and Dave goes,
[02:07:32] okay, I'll go back to the drawing board. So that's one reason,
[02:07:36] because when I'm right about my decision, it's because you're freaking just wrong.
[02:07:43] You've come in with a bad idea. So that's that's half of the solution.
[02:07:48] That's half the reason why I'm not saying, hey, everyone, no more discussion.
[02:07:53] This is what we're doing. That's 50%. The other 50%.
[02:07:57] Is because when Dave comes to me and says, hey, here's what I think we should do.
[02:08:03] And it's 13 or 12 of the points are pretty good.
[02:08:07] And even though I could lock down 15 out of 15, I'm totally good with going.
[02:08:12] Sounds good, Dave. You win. Roll with it.
[02:08:17] And what does that mean? The amount of times, because otherwise, if I say, no,
[02:08:21] Dave, my 15 ways, my 15 points are better. And you're like, no, my 13.
[02:08:24] And we get an argument about it and find they say, shut up and go,
[02:08:26] do what I told you to do. And now you go, do it.
[02:08:28] You resent it. You're pissed off and whatever.
[02:08:31] But 50% of that's not, or 50% the solution for me is, hey, you're so wrong that you can't argue with me.
[02:08:39] And I don't say that, but I just point out all the things.
[02:08:42] You go, yeah, good point, good point, good point. And you're not going to,
[02:08:46] you're not going to fall on your sword when you are just blatantly wrong.
[02:08:50] People don't do that. Even the most, even the most dug-in person when they get
[02:08:54] shown the 19 reasons why they're wrong, they retreat.
[02:08:58] So, therefore, we all go out with the same plan, or you come into plan that's free
[02:09:02] and close, and I go, sounds great, man. Let's execute.
[02:09:10] Coming down the chain of command, meaning how many times did someone tell me,
[02:09:15] hey, Jocco, shut up and do what I told you to do? Again,
[02:09:19] racking my brain a little bit of can't think any off the top of my head.
[02:09:22] Why? Same thing. Most of the time, when my boss had a bad eye
[02:09:27] idea, I was able to articulate and convince him of a new way of doing it that
[02:09:34] made more sense, or I was able to say, you know what?
[02:09:38] That'll work. I can make that work. I can make anything work.
[02:09:42] I can make that work. You know, this isn't a suicide mission.
[02:09:46] This may not be perfect, but I can go out there, mitigate the little downfalls.
[02:09:50] No factor. So that's why when I read these things, it's like, I know what
[02:09:54] they're talking about, but I very rarely experience it, very rarely experience it.
[02:10:00] I can't even at echelon front. The amount of times I've said, all right, guys,
[02:10:03] lock it up. This is what we're doing. I think we've talked about one of them is like
[02:10:06] a PT evolution at the master, master of four or something.
[02:10:10] Where there was a crazy plan floating around. I was like, you know what?
[02:10:13] There's a lot of risk with that plan. There's no risk with a known plan.
[02:10:16] Hey, we're just going to go with a known plan. We have, by the way, we have a minute.
[02:10:19] Yes, by the way, we got like seven minutes execute this thing.
[02:10:21] We got to make a decision that that's like one of the few almost every other time.
[02:10:25] And if we would, if I would have done a better job saying, hey,
[02:10:27] brief me, I want we're going to need a tomorrow and we can do a dry run and all that.
[02:10:31] I would have been able to say, hey, we could have gone through the cycle of actually
[02:10:35] figuring out, hey, whether that plan would have worked, which it might have or
[02:10:38] be what little adjustment we need to make and then everyone's happy.
[02:10:42] This mentality of open discussion, so by the way, all this revolve all
[02:10:51] around open discussion, right? All this revolve around meat, listening, you talking,
[02:10:55] you listening, me talking, it all revolves around that.
[02:10:58] This mentality of open discussion hinges on the leaders of willingness to
[02:11:01] remain humble and accept the honest feedback.
[02:11:03] Therefore, all Marines prepare themselves to become leaders by exercising
[02:11:07] humility and being open to constructive feedback.
[02:11:10] Boom, this is a message to everyone in the world.
[02:11:18] Continuing on, the path to mastery starts out, starts with a sense of humility.
[02:11:24] The path to mastery starts out with a sense of humility.
[02:11:28] Marines recognize that they do not know everything and therefore must
[02:11:32] remain humble as they pursue greater understanding and competence.
[02:11:35] Marines should always recognize that there will be more to learn and they
[02:11:39] must embrace their curiosity in order to continuously learn.
[02:11:43] Curiosity will lead Marines to knowledge required to fill their own gaps and
[02:11:48] experience and improve their skill set.
[02:11:51] And that curiosity is tying back to what I started this whole thing off with me
[02:11:56] like wanting to know a better way, is there a better way to do this?
[02:12:00] Is that tradition right? Is that standard operating procedure correct?
[02:12:06] When a Marine begins to feel more confident, it is because he or she is closing
[02:12:12] the gaps between their goals and their actual capabilities.
[02:12:17] Reaching a goal along the path to mastery is an indication that it is time to move
[02:12:22] on to a more challenging goal.
[02:12:24] Boom.
[02:12:25] Next section, technical and tactical proficiency.
[02:12:28] Marines begin their pursuit of mastery by developing brilliance in the basics of
[02:12:34] technical and tactical proficiency.
[02:12:38] At all levels, technical and tactical proficiency requires
[02:12:41] Marines to reflect upon what they have learned, identify learning gaps and
[02:12:45] close them.
[02:12:46] Self reflection enables Marines to evaluate the quality of their practice,
[02:12:50] recognizing that deliberate, purposeful, quality practice leads to mastery.
[02:12:55] Incorrect practice and lack of focus does not lead to perfection.
[02:12:59] It leads to negative training that could be transferred into the battle space.
[02:13:03] Marines focus on doing a basic correctly building speed and agility.
[02:13:10] No, no reason to get crazy.
[02:13:12] It's a pick and roll.
[02:13:17] There are many technical skills that Marines learn.
[02:13:20] Some are standard battle skills training.
[02:13:22] And others vary across military occupational specialties.
[02:13:27] Marines build foundational technical skills such as marksmanship and operating
[02:13:31] as part of a team in entry level training.
[02:13:35] Marines learn to be technically proficient as riflemen which provides a common identity
[02:13:40] among all Marines.
[02:13:41] The larger lesson for Marines for all Marines to learn is the hard work, dedication,
[02:13:48] and persistence required when seeking self improvement.
[02:13:52] That's what you're learning in boot camp.
[02:13:55] That's why every Marine is a riflemen.
[02:13:57] Yeah, look, do we need you know how to work your rifle? Yes, we do.
[02:14:01] What's more important than that is the lesson that you learn that it takes hard work,
[02:14:06] dedication, and persistence.
[02:14:08] That's what it takes.
[02:14:10] That's what you learn from becoming a riflemen.
[02:14:14] Marines build on this lesson as they move onto the next technological challenge.
[02:14:22] And then it kind of advances here into the larger picture.
[02:14:27] Marines develop teamwork and competencies so that they are technically and tactically proficient
[02:14:32] as individuals, teams, units, and mag tasks.
[02:14:37] Collective learning experiences build teamwork that enables success.
[02:14:42] Teamwork building exercises provide the opportunity for Marine leaders to both lead the development
[02:14:47] of the Marines teamwork and learn from these exercises.
[02:14:51] During these learning activities, leaders who demonstrate humility by discussing what they did and why
[02:14:56] subordinates to reinforce learning at all levels of the team.
[02:14:59] Learning takes time, dedication, intelligence, and the pursuit of mastery.
[02:15:02] And the reason I had to call this out is that in an organization, the organization is collectively also learning.
[02:15:12] That's the big separation between like basic seal training and even when you get done with basic seal training,
[02:15:19] then you go to seal tactical training or when they call it now.
[02:15:23] A seal qualification training, both those are pretty much individual skill sets.
[02:15:28] It's not until you get into a seal platoon, now it's collective learning.
[02:15:32] Now you're learning how to do things as able to, which is totally different.
[02:15:38] And yet builds upon what you learn to do as an individual.
[02:15:43] What was the training you led?
[02:15:46] Was the title of that training? Was it West Coast seal training? Was that SQT?
[02:15:50] What was that called again? I know that's not.
[02:15:52] Pretty deployment work up. Pretty deployment, pretty pre-deployment training cycle.
[02:15:56] I usually call it advanced training even though technically the if you looked by the book, the advanced training that is run is actually advanced individual training.
[02:16:08] That's what they call advanced individual training, which is hey, you're going to learn to be a sniper.
[02:16:12] You're going to learn to be a parachute rigger. You're going to learn to be a medic.
[02:16:16] Those things are advanced training is what they call it.
[02:16:20] The simplest way to explain what I did is I just call it advanced training.
[02:16:26] There's a seal that would be sitting in the audience go you didn't run advanced training.
[02:16:30] Like no, I ran advanced collective platoon training.
[02:16:35] So it's simple way to put it is to say advanced training even though there's a technical.
[02:16:40] There's a command called advanced training. It's ATC advanced training command and they teach dive supervisor.
[02:16:48] Got ATC radio men. They teach individual skills.
[02:16:52] But it's what I taught was the advanced.
[02:16:55] And usually what I actually call it is advanced tactical training because that's what it was.
[02:16:59] And that's what it still is. It's advanced tactical training.
[02:17:02] How do you? And that's the unit.
[02:17:04] Collectivate. You didn't level training.
[02:17:06] And actually now that you say it, what I actually taught is called ULT unit level training on it.
[02:17:14] How much just hearing you say that how much has buds evolved and changed what they did compared to what you did and how much that evolved.
[02:17:24] Yeah, unit level training evolves all the time.
[02:17:26] All the time, right?
[02:17:27] But it is a, it buds is what buds is.
[02:17:31] And you can, you know, there's something, if, if somebody that went through buds in 1964 went and watched buds right now, they would go,
[02:17:42] Oh, yeah, we just, oh, yeah, they'd get a lot of reminders.
[02:17:45] If they came and watched a seal, Patu and going through urban warfare training, they'd be like,
[02:17:50] Damn. They'd say, damn. Now, the land war first stuff has been,
[02:17:56] it's, it's really been very similar. All the, no, I can't even say that because we have the, the, the laser tag system.
[02:18:06] We got all the, they would do pyro and stuff, but we, the laser tag system and the paintball and stuff would just,
[02:18:11] I was around when paintball started to come out in the seal teams and it, and it changed everything for us.
[02:18:17] It changed everything for us because, unfortunately, most of the Vietnam guys were gone.
[02:18:22] And so, all of a sudden, we started doing wrote things, wrote things, meaning, here's the problem.
[02:18:30] Here's the solution. And that's not what a learning organization does.
[02:18:34] They don't do wrote things. No, they don't do wrote things, but hey, if you get contacted from this position in your patrol,
[02:18:40] here's the wrote answer to that, do that thing.
[02:18:43] And what happens is the enemy that you're going against is paper targets, they don't move and they don't shoot back.
[02:18:49] They don't maneuver and they don't shoot back. Well, guess what? That's actually what combat is.
[02:18:54] Combat is fire maneuver. And now you're going against an enemy that doesn't maneuver or shoot back.
[02:18:59] It doesn't cover move, doesn't fire move, doesn't do anything.
[02:19:01] So it's, it's, it's not that it's worthless because you will learn what the mechanics of movement are.
[02:19:09] Yeah, yeah. But, and, and we used to do this to we would do no fire drills where hey, you're going to get contacted from a bunch of different places,
[02:19:16] but you're not shooting or we use blanks, we use Dits gear, did you ever use Dits gear?
[02:19:21] Oh, no, it's not Dits gear. What's a miles gear?
[02:19:24] Yeah, yeah. So Dits was like the modern for us in the sealed team. Dits was the modern version of miles gear.
[02:19:30] Miles gear was kind of, it had a lot of, it had a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of issues with miles gear.
[02:19:38] The old miles gear that we had in the 80s and 90s.
[02:19:41] It wasn't, you know, it didn't work really well and it was just, it wasn't great.
[02:19:46] And you coupled that with a bad attitude, which is, here's something I heard.
[02:19:52] The thing that was, was, it's going to give you training scars.
[02:19:58] Like they would say that about paintball. They'd say, hey, if you're using paintball guns, you're going to get training scars.
[02:20:05] Meaning, I'm going to forget how to load my real weapon because I'm used to reloading a paintball gun.
[02:20:12] And so now when the moment hits, I'm fumbling around, looking for a hopper to put my more paintball in.
[02:20:20] We can't do it because of that. And what that essentially does, unfortunately, throws the baby out with the bathwater.
[02:20:26] Because the training scars that you get from only fighting against paper targets are worse than the training scars you get from having to use a different weapon
[02:20:34] to run these scenarios. So to go back to your point and I see where you're going with this, the basic level training of individuals has advanced and evolved a lot less than the unit level training,
[02:20:50] where we were constantly adapting from what was happening on the battlefield.
[02:20:54] Was that similar for you guys? I mean, if someone went through flight school right now, they would look very similar to World War II flight school.
[02:21:01] That thing is not a, and it was just this idea of what a learning organization was. It's the organization has to learn.
[02:21:09] And look, and I'm sure it's true for buzz. You've described it, but you know, OCS primary flight training, they're a very specific function.
[02:21:16] But that function is not to teach war fighting.
[02:21:19] And so the evolution of those organizations really isn't that dramatic. It doesn't change very much because it's teaching these fundamental skills that are absolutely required.
[02:21:28] But they're not the skills that you would utilize in the only skills you'd utilize for war fighting.
[02:21:33] I just think this point is a leader when you read that idea about learning organization is that a learning organization evolves in adapts and changes and right back to what you started with was my story at Topkin,
[02:21:44] which was you actually need to be out in front of that and leading your organization. So your organization is designed to learn, the organism that you're a part of learns.
[02:21:54] And when you start in the military like OCS or boot camp or even a little bit TBS, I bet if I went back to OCS right now, I'd take that.
[02:22:04] Yeah, that's about right. I see guys marching on the grinder. I see guys ripping their their bed sheets off their racks and throwing their matches on the floor. I see people yelling and screaming and that's probably looks much closer.
[02:22:15] I went back to if I went to air wing training at Topkin up at Fowler now, like damn you guys are up here. I guarantee you I'd say you guys have up your game a lot just because I've been out of it for long enough because that is a learning organization.
[02:22:28] That's really I think the goal and I think again the parallels are pretty obvious in how clear that is.
[02:22:33] And it's not to imply that those basics are an important they're critical.
[02:22:36] But and they mentioned that here just a little bit ago they're saying look what Marines do is get brilliant at the basics and when I was running trade at.
[02:22:47] I actually changed the terminology that we used to describe basic I ads.
[02:22:54] I changed it from basic to fundamental because it's truth because guys we think well I'm not going to do the basics.
[02:23:01] But I think that's a fundamental fundamental fundamental. This is what it actually all boils down to these things these fundamental things and you know what.
[02:23:11] There there have been changes but guess what's never changed cover move.
[02:23:16] Keep the things simple prioritize the actual decentralized map those things have not changed.
[02:23:21] And I don't foresee them trade change.
[02:23:24] Conclusion.
[02:23:27] Strong leaders are also teachers and mentors every Marine is a current or future leader and therefore leads by example to seek learning opportunities for themselves and other Marines.
[02:23:41] All Marines, especially those in positions of leadership should strive to remain humble so they are ready and willing to learn from anyone at any time in any place.
[02:23:56] Learning is an institutional priority and a professional expectation for all Marines.
[02:24:03] Continuous, disciplined and progressive learning is necessary for war fighting readiness.
[02:24:12] Learning is the foundation for all that Marines do.
[02:24:17] It is the key, a naibler for all war fighting functions.
[02:24:21] And our purpose as the nation's naval expeditionary force in readiness.
[02:24:26] Marines learn to quickly recognize and understand important information.
[02:24:31] Adapt, make sound decisions and act.
[02:24:35] Which is especially important in the fog and friction of war.
[02:24:39] All Marines must understand that continuous learning is a priority.
[02:24:44] And key to alreadyness as the nation's first line of defense always being ready to be the first to fight.
[02:25:02] And that's the last line of that document aside from a giant bibliography of all the different documents that they cite in there.
[02:25:11] Many of which are actually other Marine Corps, which would seem like all that's incestuous.
[02:25:19] If those original pubs weren't so freaking solid.
[02:25:24] But that idea that learning is the foundation for all that Marines doing.
[02:25:29] It's the key in naibler.
[02:25:31] The key in naibler to be able to collect, absorb and understand information.
[02:25:36] And then use that information to make good decisions and execute is all based on learning.
[02:25:45] And that obviously doesn't only apply to Marines.
[02:25:51] It applies to everybody.
[02:25:54] And I'll tell you, I think we've had this, how long have we been, how long did I,
[02:26:01] what is this better than about a month cycle of us with this document? It's been about a month.
[02:26:06] I have been paying attention and have realized what, a better understanding of what,
[02:26:15] I haven't realized fully what it is, but I have a better understanding of learning.
[02:26:19] And that I have been learning.
[02:26:23] And more important, what difference it makes when you are proactively learning.
[02:26:30] When you are actually engaging, you're, you're putting pressure on your brain to proactively learn.
[02:26:40] Makes a huge difference.
[02:26:42] Learning because you're experiencing something or learning because you are being taught, like think of those two things.
[02:26:48] Learning because you're experiencing it and learning because you're being taught, that's one level of learning.
[02:26:54] But when you learn because you are actively engaging your brain and processing information and making it part of your usable knowledge.
[02:27:07] Making it part of your usable knowledge.
[02:27:11] Hey, I'm not just taking this fact, then storing it in there and not being able to take it out and recollect it.
[02:27:16] Not only recollect it because who cares about recollecting it, but taking it to apply it to a problem and solve a problem.
[02:27:23] Or use it, look, what are the chances that you come up with a problem that fits this thing that you learned and it's an exact fit.
[02:27:31] No, you got to take six different little elements that you've learned actively learn.
[02:27:36] You've engaged your brain and you apply a little piece there and a little piece over there.
[02:27:40] And then you have that knowledge and you use it and you apply it.
[02:27:44] And that is the deal.
[02:27:46] That is the game changer.
[02:27:48] And that is learning.
[02:27:56] We're pretty fired up about learning over here on my side.
[02:28:03] Echo Charles.
[02:28:05] Yeah, then you make a good point with like, are you say usable, usable knowledge?
[02:28:12] Is it where? It's a whole different thing. So that's weird because okay, so you don't remember when you're in school.
[02:28:18] I don't know.
[02:28:19] Think, bro, were you a good student?
[02:28:21] I was okay.
[02:28:22] You seem like you're like, you do a good student.
[02:28:25] As opposed to just say, no, I was, I was not a trouble maker.
[02:28:29] I was quiet.
[02:28:30] I did well in school.
[02:28:31] I did not work very hard.
[02:28:33] So I wasn't like a studious guy.
[02:28:35] I didn't like try hard in school.
[02:28:36] Right, right.
[02:28:37] Okay, so for like a better way of putting maybe just happen to get good grades kind of thing, give me kind of who you are.
[02:28:44] You could say that, I guess.
[02:28:45] Sure.
[02:28:46] I'll say that, but I will also say, juggle what were you good student in high school?
[02:28:52] Yeah, no.
[02:28:53] Okay, so a lot of it seemed like in school in a learning should be fun, which you said by the way today.
[02:29:00] Learning should be fun, right? I've heard that before.
[02:29:03] Yeah, I'm like, James Damon actually.
[02:29:05] I like it. I, yeah, as an adult, I think we can realize that a little bit more especially when we're in to learning.
[02:29:10] But you know, how like when you're in school, they're like, you're learning should be fun.
[02:29:13] You're like, well, I'm doing it wrong because this is super boring.
[02:29:17] You know, like playing at the park is fun.
[02:29:19] The slides fun.
[02:29:20] Recess is fun.
[02:29:21] Lunchtime fun.
[02:29:22] Learning part, not so much. Pretty boring.
[02:29:24] And this is what I think is this is why I think because it's not usable knowledge in your brain.
[02:29:30] It is long term for sure, but you don't, you don't feel it.
[02:29:34] I'm going to let Jaco talk because I actually am not. I'm going to say, though, because it might be kind of what we're thinking.
[02:29:43] I just said, I had fun reading this. I had fun reading this book, this pop.
[02:29:48] I had fun doing it, which is kind of crazy to think about because the first time I did it was just purely a chore.
[02:29:53] I actually think learning is fun.
[02:29:56] So I do stuff with my kids. I got a six year old boy.
[02:29:59] Like we are doing things now. He's able to do things with his hands and built up.
[02:30:02] And he's learning things and he's having fun doing it.
[02:30:05] It's what is the problem is that the inability to make the connection that everything they're learning,
[02:30:11] even the ones that feel like a chore.
[02:30:13] If I could somehow convince my kid, listen, buddy, I know it doesn't make sense right now,
[02:30:20] but you will one day make the connection between this and other things.
[02:30:24] If I could, which I can't do because he's six, if I could help him make that connection,
[02:30:28] he would be much happier learning things that don't make sense as why he's learning them.
[02:30:33] It's the inability to make the connection.
[02:30:35] The thing of it is that you said something, I'm going to go like,
[02:30:38] since I cracked this thing open.
[02:30:40] I said this to you a little while ago,
[02:30:42] hey dude, this is coming out. They're about to publish this thing.
[02:30:45] Even in the last month, I am looking around and seeing things that I've been looking around and seeing in my entire life.
[02:30:53] That's because I can make the connection between learning things and how it creates,
[02:30:58] not just the usable knowledge, but how it makes my life better and helps me be better at what I do.
[02:31:03] If you could make that connection for your kids,
[02:31:06] and I think that's the hardest part for me is, hey, but we can't just all do the things that you're enjoying.
[02:31:11] We got to do some of these other things that are important,
[02:31:13] but I promise you they'll have value and meaning, that's hard to cross that bridge and make that gap for a sexual old.
[02:31:19] But I've never seen anybody who learned something, not enjoy learning it once they figured out what they're doing.
[02:31:24] You were so close.
[02:31:26] So close.
[02:31:27] So close.
[02:31:28] It's taken my thunder away.
[02:31:31] You were so close.
[02:31:32] I'm glad I gave you the opportunity to attempt.
[02:31:34] You were dancing around it.
[02:31:36] You were dancing around it and tell me if I'm wrong.
[02:31:38] Well, I was thinking of like, man, I'm going to start saying something.
[02:31:41] He's going to say, and every time I try to say something, he's going to say it.
[02:31:43] Echo says, if you could say it like him, it'd be better.
[02:31:47] So I almost, I should have just followed my instinct, which is the same.
[02:31:50] You were dancing around what I was thinking.
[02:31:53] Okay.
[02:31:54] Which is this.
[02:31:55] You're saying, hey, you've got this thing and you can't make a connection in the future.
[02:31:59] I'm going to take that one step further.
[02:32:01] Imagine this.
[02:32:03] Which I thought you were going to say is the key phrase.
[02:32:06] And then I thought you were going to say is the key phrase.
[02:32:08] The application of knowledge actually being able to use it is where that connection gets made.
[02:32:14] So when you teach your son how to do something that he can apply immediately, that's fun.
[02:32:22] Imagine if in Gjitsu what you had to do was do an armlock on a, on a, what is it?
[02:32:29] A grappling dummy.
[02:32:30] That's what your lessons were.
[02:32:32] Would that be fun, right?
[02:32:35] Marginal.
[02:32:37] Okay.
[02:32:38] This did you not want to give me a solid answer.
[02:32:40] What's more fun?
[02:32:41] Are I'm locking a grappling dummy or armlocking a training partner?
[02:32:44] Let me ask you this.
[02:32:45] How many armlocks have you done on a grappling dummy?
[02:32:48] One.
[02:32:49] Okay.
[02:32:50] How many armlocks have you done on training partners?
[02:32:52] One million.
[02:32:53] Exactly.
[02:32:54] So this, what, what you said Dave told me accurately.
[02:32:59] And I think where that connection actually gets made is when you are, have the,
[02:33:05] have the opportunity to apply that knowledge.
[02:33:09] So if you teach your kids something and all of a sudden they go to the store and you go,
[02:33:15] hey, it's 78 cents, you know, get out the coins and the kid gets to take out three
[02:33:22] quarters and three pennies and put them on the table and he applied that and you give them a nod.
[02:33:28] Right.
[02:33:29] Right.
[02:33:30] Boom.
[02:33:31] Yeah.
[02:33:32] The cashier goes, I mean, I'll thank you, son.
[02:33:33] So as much as we can if we can teach people something.
[02:33:38] And then we find an avenue for them to actually apply that knowledge and who knows.
[02:33:43] Maybe this could, maybe the, the goal is to actually teach people and stages where you're teaching them things that they can actually apply.
[02:33:51] Like if you can set it up that way that you're not trying to teach them advanced physics before,
[02:33:57] but when there's no application for it, but then when they get to a point where you can start to say, hey,
[02:34:02] you want to check out, you want to know what the tide's going to do.
[02:34:05] We can actually figure that out from from from astrophysics.
[02:34:09] We can actually figure that out.
[02:34:10] Here's what it is and here's how it works.
[02:34:12] And then people say, so.
[02:34:16] Yeah, application knowledge.
[02:34:18] What do you think Dave?
[02:34:19] Yeah, do totally.
[02:34:21] And the piece that I still am grappling with, the larger connection and, and I wish I could say it more clearly is.
[02:34:28] The piece that I'm struggling with and I think most people struggle with is.
[02:34:32] What you're learning doesn't have to be applied in that same way, meaning.
[02:34:36] So hey, you learn it.
[02:34:38] Let me teach a kid out of count money and then he gets a count money.
[02:34:41] But if I were to tell you that you could be better at arm locking your opponent by reading the Marine Corps pub on strategy.
[02:34:49] Because there's something that makes you think and see differently and some people don't want to read that stupid book because it has nothing to do with what they want to do.
[02:34:56] Actually, it does.
[02:34:59] And if you can make that connection of this thing that seems totally irrelevant to your world, I don't like math.
[02:35:03] I'm never going to go be a math teacher.
[02:35:05] My daughter will say, I'm not good at math and I'm never going to go be whatever.
[02:35:09] There's a connection there to every other thing that you're doing.
[02:35:14] And that's a gap that's hard to bridge.
[02:35:16] It's not that that you're going to go, but you don't have to become a mathematician for math to be important in your life.
[02:35:21] I'm going to stop there because I want to read it to say.
[02:35:24] But that's the gap that I'm talking about.
[02:35:26] That's that's the original idea of the thread, right?
[02:35:28] The original idea of the thread is like all these things are connected.
[02:35:30] And if you realize that they're connected, then you'll understand them better and the better you understand this scientist from 1820.
[02:35:38] Yeah.
[02:35:38] The better you'll be able to relate to this artist in 1904.
[02:35:43] Like those things are real.
[02:35:45] And the mind, the brain is a muscle that the more you use it, the more you utilize it, the better you can respond.
[02:35:56] And so yeah, I think you're actually absolutely right.
[02:36:00] That's when when and it was kind of stuck in the sick year old brain, right?
[02:36:06] Because it's really hard to explain to a six year old, hey, this math that you're learning is going to help you give you a greater capability to win in a soccer game, right?
[02:36:19] Like that, even though we all know it's actually true because you're sharper, you're smarter than you have the million reasons.
[02:36:24] So finding it, finding the application of it and when you recognize that application, and I think that's where I've been very, very lucky because at some point, again, that's some point.
[02:36:34] I said, I can take what I learned in GJitsu and I can apply it to combat and I can apply it to leadership.
[02:36:39] And by the way, I can take something that I learned in leadership and I can apply it to GJitsu.
[02:36:43] And all the way across those, those, those modalities.
[02:36:49] And by the way, those modalities, as soon as you step into some other modality, if you have the open mind, you see the application again and you see it again and you see it again.
[02:37:00] And we do this all the time at Slam Front, we're working with a company that we've never worked with this company before and you take a look at what they're doing, how they're doing it and you can apply the principles that we know.
[02:37:12] And if you don't understand that, it, look, you got to take this little piece of this, this principle, this little piece and you put them in place and look, we get people at Slam Front clients that they've read the book thousand times.
[02:37:25] They've listened to every single podcast.
[02:37:27] And as soon as you roll in and you start talking about it, they don't act quite have the skill yet of maybe how to apply it.
[02:37:33] And as soon as they see how it applies, all of a sudden they're mind expands and you go back three months later.
[02:37:41] And now they don't need, they don't need us anymore.
[02:37:43] They don't need national and foreign anymore.
[02:37:44] They've figured out the application process and that's where they go next level.
[02:37:49] Yeah, totally.
[02:37:52] Speaking of learning.
[02:37:55] Echo Charles.
[02:37:56] Closing the knowledge gaps.
[02:37:58] Yes, speaking of closing the knowledge gaps.
[02:38:00] Don't hide them.
[02:38:01] Hide knowledge gap.
[02:38:02] You know why I think it's fun as an adult, I think more.
[02:38:06] So like when you're young at that and maybe this has to do with part of the brain.
[02:38:10] I don't know.
[02:38:11] I don't know if I'm what I hear it does.
[02:38:12] When you're young, everything is short term, everything.
[02:38:15] True.
[02:38:16] Like the long term, the brain has a hard time to comprehend that.
[02:38:20] So like you'll get students, like young students or whatever, who get really good grades,
[02:38:25] but that tends to be because their goal is to get good grades.
[02:38:30] It's not to like learn math so I can apply it to life necessarily.
[02:38:33] Maybe that's what they're told.
[02:38:34] Maybe maybe not, but as far as they're actual like desire to learn the math, it's like to get good grades.
[02:38:39] Try.
[02:38:40] You're return.
[02:38:41] Okay, so I taught my three-year-old how to choose a slingshot.
[02:38:49] So I should have slingshot.
[02:38:52] So I should have slingshot.
[02:38:54] You watch a three-year-old boy, by the way, you know, probably girl too, but shoot a slingshot
[02:38:59] at a bottle in front of a three-year-old.
[02:39:02] Thinking of thinking it's the most awesome thing in the world.
[02:39:05] And they say, oh yeah, you try.
[02:39:06] He doesn't know how.
[02:39:07] He doesn't know how to put the thing in. He gets all mad at whatever.
[02:39:09] I teach him. He's focused on that thing like man, this is I'm going to learn the world's
[02:39:14] solutions.
[02:39:15] This is the best thing in my life and I need to learn this.
[02:39:19] Try teaching him how to like memorize the alphabet.
[02:39:22] He'll be like, well listen to you, but I'm not into this right now, you know.
[02:39:26] It's just night and day, you know.
[02:39:28] Or try to do a puzzle with a kid.
[02:39:31] Here, just looking for that one piece that fits and when it fits, it's like cool,
[02:39:35] but meanwhile, as an adult, you're like cool, that is cool.
[02:39:38] That's a good incremental progress that we're making, but it's really cool when this whole
[02:39:43] corner is developed and then this whole corner is the end then you put them all together and
[02:39:46] boom the big puzzle.
[02:39:47] It seems same.
[02:39:48] It's like a bigger picture kind of thing.
[02:39:50] Anyway, that's why I think, and then not to mention when you're in an adult,
[02:39:54] what you're learning tends to be something you chose to learn.
[02:39:59] And that's already you're just already going on that path of fulfilling like little
[02:40:04] gaps in your knowledge that you need to be filled.
[02:40:06] So like actionable knowledge kind of thing.
[02:40:09] It's already going to be set up like that just by the very nature of you choosing what to learn.
[02:40:14] See what I'm seeing.
[02:40:15] Yeah, that's why it's important for parents, teachers, human beings to try and get the kids to recognize
[02:40:22] what that threat, that that threat dies, everything together, the long because if we're learning
[02:40:27] for short term, we're learning for short term and it's hard to see where it all ties into.
[02:40:32] Yeah, with that.
[02:40:36] So it's beginning long term short term learning.
[02:40:40] What do you got for us echo Charles?
[02:40:41] If you have, I'm going to go with the knowledge gap situation that really,
[02:40:45] because that's a big one.
[02:40:46] Hiding knowledge gap or closing.
[02:40:49] Oh, yeah, closing.
[02:40:50] It's closing in there for closing.
[02:40:52] Close.
[02:40:53] Yes.
[02:40:53] So, it's facing it.
[02:40:56] Let's face it.
[02:40:57] I don't need to learn how to fight, right?
[02:41:00] Because I don't fight.
[02:41:02] Yeah.
[02:41:03] Big.
[02:41:04] If that knowledge gap is exposed in the real world, you can have a problem.
[02:41:08] We are going to have a problem.
[02:41:10] So let's close that knowledge gap.
[02:41:11] We'll take you to.
[02:41:12] When we take you to what do we need?
[02:41:14] Do you do training?
[02:41:15] Gear.
[02:41:16] Gear.
[02:41:17] If you do not get, we're actually going to do it.
[02:41:20] Okay.
[02:41:21] So we're getting all this stuff.
[02:41:22] There's more stuff by the way.
[02:41:24] Or domain.com.
[02:41:25] That's where you can get.
[02:41:26] You can use best key school world.
[02:41:27] American made.
[02:41:28] 100%.
[02:41:31] Are we back making jeans?
[02:41:32] Yeah.
[02:41:33] We are making jeans.
[02:41:34] We are back in the game.
[02:41:36] Jeans are being made.
[02:41:38] You can order them.
[02:41:40] And you will get them.
[02:41:41] We have.
[02:41:42] We're making.
[02:41:43] So if you don't know, we started making masks.
[02:41:46] Face coverings actually because we don't want people to get confused and think that this is an end ninety five masks.
[02:41:52] They're not.
[02:41:53] But there's recommendations from all kinds of people.
[02:41:57] Including law enforcement that will.
[02:42:01] Find you here in the state of California if you're not wearing a mask.
[02:42:05] Yes.
[02:42:06] Is that under certain circumstances?
[02:42:08] You're outside.
[02:42:09] Started May 1st.
[02:42:10] No kidding.
[02:42:11] Yeah.
[02:42:12] So anyways, at origin, we started making masks.
[02:42:14] So that people face coverings.
[02:42:17] So if you want to get those.
[02:42:19] Go to origin main.com.
[02:42:21] You can also get a bunch of other clothes.
[02:42:23] Including jeans.
[02:42:25] Yes.
[02:42:26] You can also get.
[02:42:27] Let's say you're in lockdown at your house.
[02:42:30] Yes.
[02:42:31] You didn't have a gym.
[02:42:33] No gym.
[02:42:34] Your gym is shut down because of COVID-19.
[02:42:37] Now you have no way it's no gym.
[02:42:39] What are you going to do?
[02:42:41] Well, you want to work out.
[02:42:42] You want to train.
[02:42:43] Guess what you can get from origin main.
[02:42:46] Two items right now.
[02:42:48] One of them is a.
[02:42:50] Plyo box, right?
[02:42:51] You want to get your jump on.
[02:42:53] And there's all kinds of things you can do with the Plyo box.
[02:42:55] You don't what I do with a Plyo box.
[02:42:57] Push up.
[02:42:58] Yeah, push ups.
[02:42:59] Yes, jump.
[02:43:00] Yeah, all that stuff.
[02:43:01] You don't have to stretch oddly enough.
[02:43:04] It's one of those things.
[02:43:05] You use it to get yourself in positions that force you to stretch.
[02:43:10] And I am not a good stretcher.
[02:43:13] And then we also have something known as the bird.
[02:43:19] The bird, which is A.
[02:43:22] What would you say it is?
[02:43:24] A leather kettlebell.
[02:43:26] It's a leather kettlebell.
[02:43:28] So it shows up to your house with no weight.
[02:43:31] And then you can fill it with whatever you want to fill it with.
[02:43:34] My recommendation actually pennies.
[02:43:37] Go to your bank.
[02:43:38] Go to your bank and get 50 to $75 worth of pennies.
[02:43:43] Yeah.
[02:43:44] Load them into the burden.
[02:43:46] So a stitch it up.
[02:43:48] Not stitch it, but you tie it up.
[02:43:50] It's actually laces.
[02:43:51] And then you have.
[02:43:53] You got about a 30 to 40 pound kettlebell depending on how much you fill it up.
[02:43:58] Yeah, dang. That's a good idea.
[02:43:59] Pennis are heavy men.
[02:44:00] Pennis are heavy.
[02:44:01] And they're readily available.
[02:44:03] They have met the bank.
[02:44:04] There's going to be a run on pennies in America.
[02:44:06] They're going to go up the county.
[02:44:08] You know, they're going out.
[02:44:10] They're phasing out pennies.
[02:44:11] They work.
[02:44:12] Do they even have them at the bank?
[02:44:13] Yes.
[02:44:14] They do.
[02:44:15] Yes, they do.
[02:44:16] I heard like five years ago that they're straight up phasing pennies out of the whole game.
[02:44:21] The cool thing 40 pounds might seem like for a kettlebell.
[02:44:25] If you've never used a kettlebell before or you don't work out, you're going to be surprised.
[02:44:30] 40 pounds is heavy is more than you're going to have to go lighter than that.
[02:44:33] But dealing with the burden because it's.
[02:44:36] Pliable.
[02:44:38] It's actually harder to you.
[02:44:41] It's harder to work with in a kettlebell.
[02:44:42] So like you know a kettlebell is harder to work with a barbell because it's odd shape.
[02:44:46] Yeah.
[02:44:47] Whatever.
[02:44:48] This is one step even harder.
[02:44:49] Yeah.
[02:44:50] So you can get really kind of savage workouts just with.
[02:44:55] The burden.
[02:44:56] Yeah.
[02:44:57] Yeah, that makes sense because it's like, you know, that's the whole thing with like,
[02:45:00] like sandbags.
[02:45:02] Yeah.
[02:45:03] You know that awkward.
[02:45:04] Yeah.
[02:45:05] The awkward is like working more muscle.
[02:45:06] Do you have a burden?
[02:45:07] No.
[02:45:08] Oh, dang.
[02:45:09] Your relationships must not be a very good right now over an origin.
[02:45:12] Yeah.
[02:45:13] Well, it's a hot commodity.
[02:45:15] That thing is good.
[02:45:17] Yeah.
[02:45:18] Well, we sold out immediately, but we got more leather.
[02:45:23] So we're back in the game.
[02:45:25] Making a happen with burdens.
[02:45:27] Yes.
[02:45:28] More burdens for the world.
[02:45:29] Yeah.
[02:45:30] That was good.
[02:45:31] Carry your burden.
[02:45:32] Well, also boots are we're back doing the boots thing.
[02:45:36] Do you have boots ready to know?
[02:45:38] No boots either.
[02:45:39] No boots.
[02:45:40] Very bad relationships.
[02:45:41] Either that or they know me really well.
[02:45:43] You're right.
[02:45:44] You're right.
[02:45:45] You're right.
[02:45:46] Yeah.
[02:45:47] Makes sense.
[02:45:48] Yeah.
[02:45:49] Well, yeah.
[02:45:50] You won't wear boots like this around.
[02:45:52] No.
[02:45:53] I don't wear boots just around.
[02:45:54] But when I go on the road, I only wear boots.
[02:45:57] Yeah.
[02:45:58] Cool.
[02:45:59] Makes sense.
[02:46:00] Everything at origami.com also supplements.
[02:46:02] If you are not keeping your joints in order, you're not going to be happy.
[02:46:06] Big picture.
[02:46:07] Because after a while, they jam up.
[02:46:10] Trust me.
[02:46:12] So yes.
[02:46:13] Joint warfare from Jocco.
[02:46:14] Joint warfare.
[02:46:15] A super krill oil.
[02:46:18] Also, we have the discipline.
[02:46:20] Keep your mind in the game.
[02:46:22] You're brain in the game.
[02:46:24] Dave Burke, super excited about the discipline.
[02:46:27] Pretty much daily.
[02:46:29] Not pretty much.
[02:46:31] It's actual daily.
[02:46:32] It's actual daily.
[02:46:33] Yeah.
[02:46:34] Yeah.
[02:46:35] Yeah.
[02:46:36] We spun up some more cold war, too.
[02:46:37] So I was, yeah.
[02:46:38] If you need that little immune system hitter, you can jump on the cold war.
[02:46:44] war and get some of that. The cans of Disciplingo ready to drink and there's a new flavor
[02:46:53] that will be coming out. Actually there's a couple new flavors that will be coming out. One
[02:46:57] of them is called Sour Apple Sniper. The JPDNL signature and then also we will be announcing
[02:47:08] afterburner Orange. The Dave Burke signature models. And then echo Charles we don't
[02:47:15] have a name. We don't even have a flavor yet. But I sensed in the room today when we started
[02:47:20] talking about afterburner Orange. Let's just say some of us weren't as excited and maybe
[02:47:26] thought that maybe they should have their own talk about rather setting in tune. I think
[02:47:35] you need your own flavor. Well thanks. But yes, the Sour Apple Sniper. Dude, it is so good.
[02:47:47] I did my first two samples of the afterburner Orange. Right now that Sour Apple Sniper
[02:47:53] Apple, they have that dial that thing in. That thing was good. Yeah, it'll take
[02:47:59] some iterations. Yeah, I'm done two. I've done two trials so far. Afterburner Orange. Yeah, I got the first two.
[02:48:06] Got the family. Everybody got in on it. Try it. Yeah. It's just going to take. It takes
[02:48:10] iterations. Okay. Get it there. The, I mean for the first mole. For mint mole, I went through
[02:48:17] 10 iterations. Try it again. Try it again. Try it again. And then finally I was like, yep, there it
[02:48:21] is. So all that good stuff. Warrior Kid Mulk. Dockle White T. Man, I made a dockle
[02:48:26] way to the other day like from the T bags. That is so legit. And all this stuff is available
[02:48:32] at the Vitaminshopp if the Vitaminshopp is open in your area right now. So it's where I'll
[02:48:35] mock down. You can check it all out there. Origin main.com Origin main M.A. I. N. E. Origin
[02:48:45] main. Dot com for any of this gear. And it does. Sapparch. Yes. Does support. Whole game. The whole
[02:48:53] system. Really. Also, jocco as a store and it's called jocco store. So super original. Yes. We go to
[02:49:03] joccostore.com and you can get, you know, what do you want to merge? That was the kid how
[02:49:09] the kid say it. And the merch. Yeah. And the last T shirts, hoodies, more rash guards,
[02:49:15] beanies, some women stuff on their tank tops and whatnot. You know, just plaincos freedom.
[02:49:20] You know, the whole, uh, how should I say? As far as representation goes, you will be representing
[02:49:29] the path. We'll say that. I got a good quarantine shirt on there too. If you want to represent
[02:49:35] in lockdown, you're still putting in the work. You're still doing your, uh, decline pushups on the
[02:49:40] plyo box. You're carrying the burden. You seem saying anyone will represent. We got a good
[02:49:46] quarantine shirt free. Good. Oh, God, women's tank top two tank tops to buy the way anyway.
[02:49:52] Jocco store.com. Good stuff. I'll just leave that out there for you. Yeah. It's good, man.
[02:49:58] Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't yet. Leave a review. So we can read it. Hopefully it's
[02:50:05] funny. Hopefully it's impactful. Also, got some other podcasts. Got a podcast called the thread.
[02:50:10] The episodes are out there on YouTube. It's a different, what does it podcast feed?
[02:50:21] What is it called? Yeah, it is called the feed. Yeah, that's true. So there's a, there's a different
[02:50:26] feed for the thread. There's a different feed for grounded. So the thread is about, well, it's about
[02:50:31] we're just talking about thread of things, how things connect together in the world. And we myself
[02:50:37] a derocuper of Margar made. I haven't been doing that podcast. It's been, it's been wild to be honest.
[02:50:45] With his bringing things up in my mind, we're making, we remember things. One of the coolest things
[02:50:50] that he made me remember was this conversation with contractors. I'm in Baghdad. It's 2003, 2004,
[02:50:56] and there's contractors that show up in Baghdad. These guys are black water guys or whatever triple
[02:51:01] canopy guys. And these guys come in to our compound. And they just kind of arrived in country.
[02:51:10] And a couple of reformer seals, you know, probably in the 90s, no combat experience. And they're
[02:51:15] talking to us. And you know, we're looking at their gear and we're kind of giving them a heads up.
[02:51:18] And that deral, because he's good like this, we were asking the guys, because they were
[02:51:26] there about to go to Follugia. And they were taking up armored, at Ford explorers with sounds,
[02:51:35] badass. But the up armored Ford explorers were actually horrible. All they were was a regular
[02:51:41] Ford explorer, two wheel drive, Ford explorer with like a little bulletproof glass mounted inside of
[02:51:49] it. They didn't make any adjustments to the suspension. They didn't make any adjustments to the power.
[02:51:53] It was just, they were junk. And so we're looking at these guys getting ready to go in Follugia.
[02:52:00] And we're asking them, hey, do you guys have run flats? For your, okay, we're asking
[02:52:05] to hate you have this, do you have this, do you have a radio, do you have this? And then it's like,
[02:52:08] hey, do you have run flats for your, for your Ford explorers? And they're like, no. And and
[02:52:14] deral named the podcast, you know, do you have run flats? And it's such a great name because that
[02:52:22] really shows you where we were at. That was towards the end of my deployment. And these guys
[02:52:27] are just showing up. And we knew how bad things could get and how quickly they could get bad.
[02:52:33] And these guys who had just showed up had no idea what they were getting into. And
[02:52:38] within a month, the contractors that got that got ambushed in Follugia and strong up on the, on the
[02:52:45] bridge. Then we're there. So we go into all kinds of things like that type of story, like that type
[02:52:53] of information, which I really haven't talked about in that podcast, the thread. And we're going to
[02:52:57] where we got China coming up. We're going deep on China. And so we also have the ground in podcast,
[02:53:03] which is about you, Jitsu. We have the warrior kid podcast, which is for warrior kids latest latest
[02:53:08] episode. I think it's the latest episode. It's about Johnny Kim. Yeah. Johnny Kims on it.
[02:53:12] Guest guests starring astronaut, doctor and seal. Johnny Kim. Warrior kid soap don't forget about that.
[02:53:22] It's available on Jocquistore now. Is it are we there yet? Are we there yet? Yes. That was a massive
[02:53:28] hesitation. Warrior kid soap gets some killer soap for yourself. And that way you, your family,
[02:53:33] everyone you know can stay clean. Stay clean. Stay clean. Stay clean. Speaking of staying clean,
[02:53:41] we have a YouTube channel. Very clean YouTube channel. Where? Actually, I'm not sure how clean that
[02:53:47] YouTube channel is. Why can't you just go in and do like you need to make channels within the channel?
[02:53:53] One that says, you know, whatever you call hype videos or whatever things you have. And
[02:53:59] dance videos you should have enhanced videos. You should have excerpts. You should have the thread.
[02:54:03] You should have ground it. You should have grounded all in separate channels. That's my humble opinion.
[02:54:08] Yeah. You want a while go home and do it. Okay. All right. Taking action. Well, they are they're in playlists.
[02:54:15] Right. So it's called playlists. So they're called. So you're done that already. I've done that,
[02:54:19] but here's the thing. What you're talking about. Which I agree. Is it I've done that? Or is it here's the thing?
[02:54:25] Which one of these two are we talking about? It's actually technically both. So that is done.
[02:54:30] They're in playlists. So you can go to the playlists section. Then they'll be organized. But if you go to the
[02:54:35] main YouTube, then there's a way to organize it where it displays your playlist with which is what I think
[02:54:42] anyway that you're talking about. Right. Like channels within the channel. Yeah. So when you go to the main
[02:54:47] page, it's like you can's in nonetheless. Yeah. It is done. So yes, they can be played in a row and order,
[02:54:53] whatever. And you know, be not filtered out. But like if you just want to listen to the thread.
[02:54:58] Right. And you just let them play. Boom. See what I say? Yeah. Got them all. Anyway,
[02:55:03] yes, we do have a YouTube channel. Jockpock. Yes, YouTube channel. Video version. Video. See what they
[02:55:08] look like. See what we all look like. Whatever. Also excerpts on there. We got psychological warfare.
[02:55:14] If you need a little psychological hitter to push you through a moment of weakness, you can check that out.
[02:55:19] Wherever MP3. Our sold. Wherever MP3, I was going to say songs, but they're not songs.
[02:55:27] Wherever MP3 audio is coming at you. Check it out. Psychological warfare is the name of that flip side
[02:55:33] canvas.com to code a Meyer making psychological warfare for your eyeballs. Go to flipsidecampus.com.
[02:55:41] Books. We got some books. What book? How about the code? The evaluations. The protocol. Dave
[02:55:49] Burke. How's it going? It's going pretty good. Are you happy with the product? I am. I've been
[02:55:56] more happy with the interaction that the product has created. Yeah. Oh, I've been interaction
[02:56:01] man. It is so awesome. It is a how many people got it and got either back on the path or
[02:56:07] understood the path better. The interaction from that has been awesome. I'm stoked to be a part of that.
[02:56:12] That is the that book is like this is another thing that it that it sort of does. And whether
[02:56:18] is the surprising maybe maybe not. But it's like okay, so you read it right? You could refer to it
[02:56:23] all this stuff. It's like a big part of it is just a reminder to just evaluate how good you're doing.
[02:56:28] And really remember that you have you do have a goal. And if you don't then make a goal whatever.
[02:56:34] So like this is what it'll do. Like if I'll work out, which is a normal thing. You know,
[02:56:37] try to work out. But I'm mentally conscious of like okay, what kind of workout was that? Was that
[02:56:43] a two? Was that a five? You know, and I'm kind of like at the end I have a straight up number done,
[02:56:49] straight up. And then I'll share it with somebody just through up a four today, you know, whoever
[02:56:54] you know, if they're sort of in the game as well. Like that's what it'll do, you know,
[02:56:58] it's a little keep you on track man in that way. Dude without a doubt you start thinking about
[02:57:02] things you've never thought about before. You know, also just being able to say I just need to
[02:57:07] at least get a one over here. Just at least like hey, and you also look at some cookies and you
[02:57:13] say no, I'm not going to go to zero. Oh, I'm not throwing a fan was telling me he had a little scenario
[02:57:18] unfold and he was like, this could be a zero through the zero all the diet. I had a little
[02:57:24] scenario yesterday just had a phryophe zero on on fuel in the intake. Yeah. What?
[02:57:35] In a whole no worse way worse. Don't know. I'm never going to eat donuts. I don't know. I'm
[02:57:40] never going to eat donuts. If you see me eating donuts, you can stab me in the face.
[02:57:45] Because I just not going to do it. But just straight up American
[02:57:49] chicken, bacon cheeseburger, which right we're already not good, but fries with it. That's just
[02:57:58] no fat. That's just unsat. Yeah. That's just unsat at the end of the day that does what is that
[02:58:02] that that amounts to a zero. Yeah. So that's I was actually I asked Laefals like maybe I should
[02:58:08] put some kind of negative numbering like you this could actually take you time to bake out to
[02:58:13] you. Right. You had bacon double cheeseburger. The camera over for the next day is diet. You're
[02:58:21] carrying that with you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get another point. On tomorrow's note. It should
[02:58:24] be a negative. Even if I ate today, you know, a grass fed steak, you know, whatever and a salad,
[02:58:34] I would still not even be able to dig out of the hole. French fries. I don't mean French
[02:58:38] for come on. What's what would be a one as far as a meal goes? You think? I think she's done
[02:58:47] no. I think I think a well, I don't know. Because look, if there's a potential for a five
[02:58:54] a meal that's a five, a four or three, a two and a one. Well, first of all, it's a whole day, right?
[02:58:58] It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day.
[02:59:00] It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. It's a whole day. You don't get up and have a
[02:59:03] ideal breakfast and give yourself a five for diet for the day and call it good. You got to do the
[02:59:08] whole day. If you're on a five for a diet, that diet is that consumption is tethered to other
[02:59:13] things that you're doing. You're up to my, you're going. A one is like, I didn't do anything bad,
[02:59:21] but I didn't do anything like constructive either. I'm not like managing what I'm
[02:59:24] taking. A one's like you ate to survive. You and you didn't do anything that took you
[02:59:31] going backwards. But like, we're so French fries involved. If you were French fries in the day,
[02:59:36] you're not getting a one. Okay. No one. Is this a one day? We'll say breakfast lunch dinner.
[02:59:40] Keep it simple. Okay. Breakfast. We ate frosted mini wheat. No. It's getting
[02:59:47] your artist. It's serious. I always talk about it. Frosted mini wheat. Yes.
[02:59:52] It is right now. I would not shred it. I know. Brother. What no wheat. No whole wheat. That's
[02:59:57] cereal. What about Grinthala? No. No. That's not nice. Hey, there. Here's the other thing.
[03:00:02] We got to look at what is what is it that you've set up for yourself, right? Because some people,
[03:00:07] if you're running a marathon, all of a sudden, you're going to need certain foods that you would not
[03:00:12] need. Had you been trying to cut weight or had you been trying to gain weight, right?
[03:00:17] Right. It's not depends. Listen. There's a thing here that's a large and we've had a lot of
[03:00:21] questions about this. First of all, whoever's like, you mark yourself whenever you want. This is your
[03:00:26] evaluation. If you're a habit, if you're, if you're someone who's spent the last 10 years and you
[03:00:31] get up in the morning and your breakfast is donuts. That's just been your thing, donuts, and coffee,
[03:00:36] and you get off the donut and coffee train and you get up and you have some sort of whole wheat
[03:00:41] cereal thing to replace that. You're doing, you're improving. You're getting better. Now, is that a five?
[03:00:46] No. That's not a five. It's not to like punish you for making one small mistake, but it's the
[03:00:51] measurement of the things that you're doing. The biggest takeaway is what you said is, are you thinking
[03:00:55] about this? Because if donuts as part of your diet, every, that's your, your zero for nutrition
[03:01:03] in your life and you need to get on a path by which that is no longer part of your repertoire. And when
[03:01:07] you don't do that, you got to count for that. You know what? Why even play around? I have the book right
[03:01:13] here. Here's the score of one. For at the end of the day, you ate everything you're going to eat. Here's
[03:01:17] the score of one. Food intake was effective to sustain health, but did not optimize nutrition or
[03:01:24] participate in health enhancing program. So maybe you had some little granola like it sustained you,
[03:01:32] but it did not optimize. Right. Yeah. It wasn't. You were recovering from the week's quarter.
[03:01:39] Zero is did not eat properly and did not provide any nutritional benefit to perform critical daily
[03:01:44] tasks. That's your donuts and a pizza. Right. You're just to gear in a zero. Yeah. Five consumed ideal
[03:01:54] ideal food intake and maintained perfect adherence to diet or fasting. Got it. Yeah. Every calorie
[03:02:02] was optimal. What? Every calorie was optimal and nothing was consumed that didn't contribute to health
[03:02:09] or nutrition allowing for a sustained peak level of performance throughout the entire day.
[03:02:16] No big deal. No big deal. I had an interesting situation to throw out to the crowd here.
[03:02:20] Happening me out Saturday night. So normal day Saturday. We're out. It's good day.
[03:02:27] Took my kids mountain biking. We had a good day. Came back at a good. I think I grilled. We had a normal
[03:02:32] dinner and then we had a little adult situation at the neighbors. We went to the neighbor's house.
[03:02:38] We did some social distancing hanging out. Everything was cool. They're all drinking. I don't drink.
[03:02:42] I'm hanging out. It's all good. We had a good time. Get home just before midnight.
[03:02:48] Feeling hungry Dave feeling so at literally the stroke of midnight. I am consuming strawberry
[03:02:56] mock at midnight. Yeah. I'm good with that. Yeah. I'm totally. Yeah. My last meal was
[03:03:03] late after I didn't need them. I should have just gotten a meal. But I was I wanted something that
[03:03:09] tasted good so bad that I just. That's a good question right there though. One of the good things
[03:03:14] about mock. You check it out. You might feel guilty because it tasted so good. But it actually
[03:03:18] needs probably here. That's a good thing. It's not a good thing. Yeah. And the motive too.
[03:03:24] Right. You weren't like, hey, I'm on this program. This mock needs to facilitate the program.
[03:03:28] You're like, hey, I need something too. It's good. There's the mock. So it's kind of a question.
[03:03:32] Is that so what is that? It's not like a two. It has to be something because mock is good for you.
[03:03:38] Are you if you're working out on any regular basis? Moke is good for you and it does support your
[03:03:44] goals. 100%. It's good for you period. I don't even think this is a question actually. This is a positive.
[03:03:49] Just a good deal. It's just a little guilt because it tastes so good. Yeah.
[03:03:53] Leadership strategy and tactic. So the code you can get that one. It's up and running. We had a
[03:03:59] little lag time. I apologize. I didn't realize that every single person was going to buy it.
[03:04:04] Immediately. We're back up to speed. Sorry about the delay. We also have leadership strategy
[03:04:10] and tactics field manual. We have way the warrior kid one two and three. We have Mikey in the
[03:04:15] dragons. We have discipline. We go freedom field manual. We have extreme ownership and that I caught
[03:04:19] a man leadership. We also have echelon front, which is our leadership consultancy where we solve
[03:04:25] problems through leadership. Go to echelon front dot com for details. A lot of that right now
[03:04:31] is taking place on EF online. You heard me reference it a bunch today. Go to EF online dot com.
[03:04:38] If you want to interact with us, check it out. We're on there. We're live not just me, but all the
[03:04:46] instructors at echelon front. Different times a day. Different subjects. Lots of interaction.
[03:04:52] Q and A leadership primer. We talked about that. Media action drills. All kinds of stuff going on.
[03:04:57] EF online dot com. Check that out. Mustard 2020 Orlando's canceled. Phoenix Arizona is up next
[03:05:04] September 16th and 17th and then Dallas, Texas December 3rd and 4th. Check extreme ownership dot com.
[03:05:10] If you want to come, we cancel an entire monster with 900 people. Some of those people are going to
[03:05:16] two Phoenix and or Dallas. So those are going to sell out earlier than we thought. Get on an earlier
[03:05:22] few want to go. And of course, we have EF Overwatch and EF Legion. If you were in the military,
[03:05:27] go to efleagion dot com and enroll. There's companies that are hiring right now. Even though
[03:05:33] there's companies that are laying people off and for a long there are other companies that are
[03:05:37] exploding in growth and need people. So go to EF Overwatch and EF Legion EF Legion is where you
[03:05:43] can just enroll immediately. EF Overwatch is a for companies that are searching for executive position.
[03:05:51] EF Legion, looking for frontline leaders, frontline managers to make things happen.
[03:05:57] Also, America's mighty warriors dot org. This is Mark Lee's mom's charity organization helping
[03:06:06] service members worldwide go to americasmightywariors dot org. Donate, you can donate right there.
[03:06:14] There's a little section that says donate and she spreads a love to service members, their families
[03:06:22] and gold star families. And if you haven't had enough of my
[03:06:29] a impressive, a laquation or echoes, phar cycle, blathering or Dave's top gun talk,
[03:06:43] then you can locate us on the inner webs as well as Twitter on Instagram. And on
[03:06:50] the fee. Dave is at David Arberg. Echoes at Echo Charles and I am at Jockel Willink and
[03:06:58] two all the men and women out there in uniform are military members who fight and risk it all
[03:07:03] for our way of life. Thank you to the police and law enforcement firefighters,
[03:07:08] paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service.
[03:07:15] Thank you all for taking care of us here on the home front and to all the doctors, nurses and
[03:07:20] medical personnel that are working to keep us safe and healthy. Thank you for dedicating your life's
[03:07:28] work to the care of others. And to everyone else out there, remember that you are your own
[03:07:40] commander, you are in charge of your life, you are the general, you are also the soldier.
[03:07:47] You have to lead, but you also have to follow. That is how you achieve your mission.
[03:07:57] So go out there and get after it. Until next time, this is Dave and Echo and Jockel out.