Jocko Podcast 223 w Pat McNamara: Be Skilled & Prepared to Take Care of Yourself & those Around You

2020-04-01T21:04:49Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @tmacsinc 0:00:00 - Opening 0:07:06 - Pat McNamara.   2:14:59 - Final Thoughts. 2:21:03 - How to Stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Supplements: https://originmaine.com/origin-labs/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:39:07 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

and you got to know there comes a time when you're going through training like that where you got to know you know what who am I going to align myself with. And like, as I read some of the stuff that you don't, I kind of piece together, not just what's like out there, but you know, I kind of piece together what I know about, you know, so I have a little bit more in that. If you knew of little bit of fight, you know, back then because, you know, back then, I think fight training was, you know, take Juan do or just stuff like that. And his coach, who's a great guy, came up to me, you know, and he, you know, just standing there, you know, I was bummed out, but I'm not like super emotional about the thing, but his coach comes up and says, I said, I was like, hey, man, you want to come out and, you know, like, you know, I'll show you what's up what's going on. So people kind of fought well, you know, if you're the karate man, I don't, you know, that guy, I mean, you know, and there was a little interplatoon scrap between the karate kid. but well it's like that thing where you know you get the kids in school that got held back a year you know And I know like when you, I mean, I know you went to some kind of camera school and you went to some identification in field developing. You needed to know how to write an operations order and you needed to know what you know five point cutinity plan was and pace report and O'Cook and all those acronyms. So, you know, a little more tentative when it comes to like mixing up, grappling, freaking, you know, that kind of thing. So, I'm not just talking action shooting like I'm shooting like Ipsick, but I also did national match, you know, like bulls, I stuff. I mean like I said you don't go on patrols you know you go through the land war fair phase which is six weeks and you go on a you know you go along homsts you do these little missions And one thing I noticed is like, well, on my first appointment, which was O3, we, you know, we were good at doing, you know, building take downs and we, we, do room clearance. When they started having to do it cropped like the PT thing I was like all right this sucks the sucks been then you know you have a couple classes and then right to the pool and everybody scream and add you and you're trying to get your gear in as fast as possible. I mean, you know, like, if you were to look at me, armed arm comparison, one small or the other, and there's a big skull on, you know. I jive hung out with those guys you know these guys were like first range of battalion you know 80 second Arab It's Jack well the thing is like that morning I got a call from Greyhound because I shipped all my stuff Greyhound because back then you know it was like 15 dollars anywhere in the country. So they were like, yeah, we're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to, yeah. You know, snatch and do, I tell people, like people who don't know. But then the amount of weapons, too, you know, so not just cruiser stuff, but like an tank and, you know, it's a holy crap because there's always something new emerging. Included saying like hey you got to have a mission you got to be you know driving towards if you got to be meaning is found in responsibility Jordan Peterson Tracks to its leather jackets mallets you know you know all that freaking looking like Eastern euro trash. Damn, you guys had, you know, a lot of, I still had an omg guys in when I got to the teams, but, you know, it had been 20 years. I went to combat dive school and once again you know everybody scream and actually your PT until you're freaking you know I got an embellicle hernia. Man it's like your whole life is pretty good because like when you're trying to stay safe you're trying to get your gear ready you're trying to be squared away like that's what you're trying to be a good teammate you're trying to volunteer for stuff. And you think it's like, do you not ready for you to know you because you know it? It's in, it's, it's, it's, it's, but, but I've done, uh, like, a, like a, a knife, you know, a, a knife by one company, a done three different guns, different gun companies working on another one right now. You know, like, you know, I ripped off my motor. But, the cool thing was, too, when no matter how vanilla the freaking hit was, guys were treating it as if it were, you know, HVT, you know, high value target. So I made that happen by you know being work ethic you know volunteer for the shit duties out in the field that kind of thing. Now they teach you prior to you know you get you learn all the field craft stuff and everything you know how to make fire, how to kill stuff all this stuff. And I said, hey, man, you know, can you come out with me tonight and, and, you know, just man, the radio. So, you know, when we did winter training, it was hard for winter training, when we did desert training, hard court desert, we did mountain, you know, all that stuff. But, you know, these cooks and law guys, you know, seeing them freaking rip rounds and shoot AT-4s and stuff. You know, the training said, you know, put your hands on your reserve and wait to get pulled in and all this stuff and, um, and I'm not remembering it because I can't do this. Well, for, I mean, for people who don't know, you know, when you start out a jump career, that's how you start with a, with static line. Um, but, you know, I'm changing their lives, but the other thing, I tell them is, bro, thank you because, you know, you're getting me here. In fact, everyone's well, I appreciate a little, not even necessarily flowery, but you know, like a Irish, like a refreshing, you see them saying, unless the killer soap has a scent to it's mild, but in a proved scent to it, well, it's tea tree oil. We're talking, you know, I don't know how many, but as big as this, right, that we're sitting, a giant, he brings back another one on a crane and Peter's skin. You know, and you have the time limit to eat in all, you know, and then call the constant freaking yelling and screaming in your face. You got, you got like, you know, it skills. It wasn't like I had allegiance because you know, somebody's dad was in the Marine Corps forever or Or war of the Army colors or anything like that. So I volunteer for everyone of those things but you know I learned a lot on those two because I'm with some infantry badass dude some grunt and you know he's teaching me along with me Mount the gunnell paired out of the water and then terror you know with the crossovers so the crossover thing to me blew my mind talk about you know. I mean, once again, off the theater, you know, when I look back, if I were to go right now through it, I'm like, yeah, whatever. And then, you know, react to freaking IEDs, you know, all this stuff.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocoponcast number 223, Bideco Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, Jocco. Good evening.
[00:00:09] Modern combat is chaotic intense and shockingly destructive. In your first battle, you will experience the confusing and often terrifying sights, sounds, smells, and dangers of the battlefield.
[00:00:27] But you must learn to survive and win despite them.
[00:00:32] One, you could face a fierce and relentless enemy.
[00:00:37] Two, you could be surrounded by destruction and death.
[00:00:41] Three, your leaders and fellow soldiers may shout urgent commands and warnings.
[00:00:47] Four, rounds might impact near you.
[00:00:50] Five, the air could be filled with the smell of explosives and propellant.
[00:00:54] Six, you might hear the screams of a wounded comrade.
[00:01:01] However, even in all this confusion and fear, remember that you are not alone.
[00:01:10] You are part of a well-trained team backed by the most powerful, combined arms force and the most modern technology in the world.
[00:01:20] You must keep faith with your fellow soldiers, remember your training and do your duty to the best of your ability.
[00:01:28] If you do and you uphold your warrior ethos, you can win and return home with honor.
[00:01:38] This is the soldiers' field manual. It tells the soldier how to perform the combat skills needed to survive on the battlefield.
[00:01:47] All soldiers across branches and components must learn these basic skills.
[00:01:55] Non-commissioned officers must ensure that their soldiers receive training on and know these vital combat skills.
[00:02:10] So, that right there is the opening introduction of the U.S. Army Field Manual 3.
[00:02:19] The U.S. Army Field Manual 3.
[00:02:48] How to work in the desert in the jungle in Arctic conditions, how to use cover concealment and camouflage, how to prepare fighting positions.
[00:02:57] Fighting positions in urban environments, fighting positions in rural environments, immediate actions, fire and movement, fire movement on foot and fire movement in vehicles.
[00:03:10] How to move effectively through open areas, how to get past windows, how to maneuver around corners, how to enter a building, clear a room, how to conduct reconnaissance missions, how to shoot a variety of weapons, and not just shoot them, but how do you battle zero those weapons, how do you use reflexive fire, what are your immediate actions on failure of your weapon systems.
[00:03:37] And of course there's communications. You've got to learn a bunch of different radios and radio voice procedures and then on top of that you got.
[00:03:47] You got the classic survival evasion resistance escape in the event that you get captured.
[00:03:57] What about chemical biological and radiological weapons?
[00:04:02] How do you face those? How do you what are the decontamination and treatment procedures for all those? What about minds? What about demolitions? What about breaching procedures?
[00:04:13] What about IEDs? How do you identify them? How do you find them? How do you disarm or destroy them?
[00:04:20] Those are some of the things you need to learn and on top of all that. What about your army values? What about the law of land warfare? The code of conduct? The soldiers Creed and the warrior ethos.
[00:04:37] This manual is packed and that is a lot to learn. It's a lot to track and quite frankly what that manual covers is the basics. The fundamentals that's like the starting point because there are countless skills beyond those fundamentals.
[00:04:57] The longer that a soldier stays on task, the longer he stays operational, the more proficient he becomes at those fundamental skills and then moves on to advanced skills that have tighter standards and more detail and more modalities.
[00:05:15] One thing about being a soldier is you never master it. There's too much. There's too many things to understand, too many things to practice, too many things to rehearse, too many things to exercise, too many things to execute.
[00:05:33] To be truly good at these and I'll tell you what, these skills are not only applicable to soldiers. They're all applicable to life. They're all useful in life.
[00:05:54] And maybe it's because there's so much. Sometimes people sometimes soldiers sometimes service men and women, they let those skills slide as time goes on. They become softer, they weaken.
[00:06:16] But there are some soldiers and some people that continue to strive. They continue to push that continue to try become faster and stronger and more skilled and more accurate and more lethal.
[00:06:34] And they never stop aspiring to be their best and those are the true centenals of freedom, who not only strive to be their best but also pass on their knowledge to others.
[00:06:58] And that's what they do with their lives. And it's an honor to have one of those centenals with us here tonight, retired special forces, soldier, tactical shooting instructor, and all around highly skilled and capable combat veteran, Pat McNamara.
[00:07:22] Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate the opportunity. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming on. It's I know we linked up.
[00:07:32] I forget how you sent me a message. I sent you a message or something. And we'll, but you finally were able to come out here and you know you said, hey, you're going to be around them. Like I can make it happen.
[00:07:43] You know, the beauty of the inner webs, right? I mean some really great people. I mean outstanding people with great character and all positive attributes.
[00:07:54] So, and when I made them like you, for example, all I knew through the inner webs never we never met in person.
[00:08:01] But you could say from through the bullshit and tell whether or not somebody's legit and whether they're, you know, whether they're honorable person, whether they got good work ethic and all that shit. So the people I meet, I'm very fortunate to have met some great people because of the inner webs and you're one of them. So thank you so much for making this happen.
[00:08:24] So we and I got some things in common. One of us, we both got in the military pretty quick. We also both grew up in New England. Yeah. So let's go. Let's go right to the beginning. Where this started.
[00:08:37] You grew up in Connecticut. Yep. And what did will you have to support where you're an athlete? You know what? I started out like my early like twins years kind of.
[00:08:51] I was an odd kid. I was an odd ball. You know, I was probably, I was probably my dad was probably disappointed, but he supported all my odd ball shit that I wanted to do.
[00:09:00] I mean, I had all the scissi hobbies. I was not an athlete. I was, I was a, I was the kid who got picked on.
[00:09:07] Yeah, I mean, I would write you a second. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:12] There was a reason for it. It was a time when I went through a metamorphosis and I had, it was like a signature swim type of thing.
[00:09:19] But you know, I would, I write you in a cycle to school. I drew. I watched birds. I picked flowers. All that stuff.
[00:09:27] And yeah, I was, I was a big time scissi. And then I had a, I had a window of opportunity to get tough.
[00:09:38] And I had some mentors in my neighborhood who pointing me down a road.
[00:09:46] And the window of opportunity was it was basically a like survival because I had old brother who tormented me. I mean, he was horrible person.
[00:09:58] And when he went to prison the first time, I was right at like 15 years old.
[00:10:03] So, you know, as a teenager, you know, you're growing. You have the capacity to really grow and be somebody.
[00:10:11] And I had neighbors and said, hey, man, what are you going to do with this time? You have this time. And I didn't even think of it as that had no idea what they were talking about.
[00:10:20] You know, you have this time to, to prepare for his, you know, for him to come back home. You have time.
[00:10:31] So, yeah, I started wrestling. That was a big thing.
[00:10:36] I was wrestling turned me around. And my first two years I sucked, about my second two years. I was, I was bad ass.
[00:10:43] I've seen you. I could not be beaten because I fell in love with it. And I would go to the college during the summers and practice with the college students.
[00:10:51] I kind of think, and I was lifting weights and, you know, running back and forth to work and stuff like that.
[00:10:58] So, I was able to, like, self-govern. I didn't need anybody to drive me because I saw the results. I saw it was happening. I saw the change.
[00:11:08] Got a couple of street fights. So, that, you know, you learn.
[00:11:12] You learn whether or not you could cut the mustard in the neighborhood based on, you know, who's, who's picking a fight with you and how, and what the results are.
[00:11:21] Whether you're getting your ass beat with humility or your kicking somebody's ass. Either way, you know, you're learning a lot about yourself.
[00:11:30] What you're doing with street fights? Double leg slam. Yeah. Exactly. Double leg take down.
[00:11:35] You know, to a dump to a headlock, to a couple punches in the face. Yeah. Exactly.
[00:11:41] Those were the, you know, they talk about like the good old days. You, you know, the good old days.
[00:11:47] We didn't use guns and knives. Whatever. Hey, in the good old days, it was just double leg headlock.
[00:11:52] That's right. Double leg.
[00:11:54] That was out. That's what a street fight was. There wasn't any of this.
[00:11:59] Judges to or Mointite. No. Double leg headlock. Yeah. Punch us to the face.
[00:12:05] But I tell you, you had a real vanish. If you knew of little bit of fight, you know, back then because, you know, back then, I think fight training was, you know, take Juan do or just stuff like that.
[00:12:16] You know, it was karate. Yeah. There was no like Mointite and Juditsu and stuff. So if you were wrestling, you had a big advantage on the street.
[00:12:26] Yeah. There was a guy when I was a new guy at Cilty 1. There was like a guy that had the reputation of being a fighter because he was some kind of some kind of karate guy or something like that.
[00:12:37] And this is, this is the 90s, right? This isn't that long ago.
[00:12:40] But it's before UFC won. So people kind of fought well, you know, if you're the karate man, I don't, you know, that guy, I mean, you know, and there was a little interplatoon scrap between the karate kid.
[00:12:54] And a kid that was a wrestler and a good wrestler, like a state champ wrestler.
[00:13:00] Yeah.
[00:13:01] And he, you know, is exactly what happened in the fight. The karate kid got in his karate stance and the wrestler did a double leg slam headlock punch.
[00:13:10] Right. And everyone's like, dang. And what's crazy is now that I'm thinking about it. Even back then, it was kind of like, well, that must have just been, you know, a fluke.
[00:13:20] That the that the karate kid didn't do whatever a dimmuck in the kill him all the spots.
[00:13:28] So so, so wrestling was huge, huge for you. Yeah, big. Yeah, massive. So that really, that changed, that changed me in every, every way, you know, both physically and mentally.
[00:13:42] It just, and it's so funny because I talk a lot a lot. I talk about a lot with different special up guys.
[00:13:50] And one of the big common denominators is most of them were wrestlers in high school, you know, or are a really big percentage of more wrestlers in high school.
[00:13:59] Because I think it, that's the one sport where even though you're on a team, you know, you're not relying on a team or you're representing a team and your earning points toward for your team.
[00:14:11] And you have to be a team player, but you have to be self-driven too, you know, you have, if you want to be the best, you have to think, well, I need to do a thousand reps of this thing.
[00:14:21] I need to get my grip strength better. I need better balance. I need to do more sprints. I need, you know, to increase my shoulder strength, whatever it is. You know, you have to, you have to be very introspective, unlike, you know, because I played other sports.
[00:14:39] And there's some, there's some common ground with them too, but, but with the wrestling, you know, your monochemmono with another dude for that six minutes in time and that's a long freaking six minutes of the go six minutes.
[00:14:52] I'm really shit. You know what else is, and there's another big thing, a big psychological thing. And my son just just wrapped up his season and, you know what?
[00:15:04] The season didn't end, how he wanted it to end. Yeah. And his coach, who's a great guy, came up to me, you know, and he, you know, just standing there, you know, I was bummed out, but I'm not like super emotional about the thing, but his coach comes up and says,
[00:15:21] I said, yeah, it's a bad day and he goes, yeah, it's a bad day to have a bad day and I said, yeah, and he goes wrestling very rarely ends the way you want it to. Yeah. And if you think about that, you know, you go into a 64 man bracket. There's one person that that day ends the way they wanted it to or two day does.
[00:15:39] And then guess what, that person's going to the next tournament. Right. And what are the chances that it's really.
[00:15:44] And when you get done with the season, if you're the champion for the season, guess what? That means you've got another season coming up and eventually eventually you're not going to be happy with the outcome. Right. That's what's going to happen. So what's what I love about it is, you know, especially like you're saying your freshman sophomore year, you're just getting beat down.
[00:16:01] Yeah. And so many kids I see in the wrestling program, they that first year, you know, if they're getting beat down because they've never us before, they can't take it. Yeah, they're quitting and quit, but people that are tough.
[00:16:12] And they look at themselves and say, well, I least see how I can get myself better. How to work out when your brother got home.
[00:16:20] It turned out really, really well.
[00:16:25] He, I was upstairs at the top of the stairwell, and I was in the bathroom. I was taking a dump.
[00:16:32] Was he in Juvee or was he in Juvee or was he in Juvee or was he in the, he was in the, he was state. He went to the, he went to the Penn state Penn.
[00:16:41] I'll think about the name because you'll remember it. You'll know the name of the town and everything. It'll hit me.
[00:16:47] But he came upstairs and basically kicked the bathroom door open and I'm sitting down. I'm sitting down taking that.
[00:16:54] I'm sitting down taking that. I'm sitting down taking that.
[00:16:57] Yep. Yep. And I'm intimidated and I'm, and I'm now I'm embarrassed too because I got my pants right on my ankles. And I said, hey, get, you know, get that a lot here and he turns me. I could tell he's stone dotter to his mind.
[00:17:11] And he's got his fist in my face. You know what, those say I won't say I won't.
[00:17:16] And I pull my pants up and I said, you won't. And I freaking just straight right, just straight overhand right bam in a wet almost through his face and he went down the stairs.
[00:17:25] And then what did I do? I followed him downstairs. He got up double leg take down headlock and punch him.
[00:17:32] And my parents were sitting in the kitchen and they crossed their legs and just watched it happen.
[00:17:40] They were like, it's about time this guy gets it. This is up and comments right here. You know, this is karma.
[00:17:45] They didn't do a thing. So I got, you know, those bricks in and I told them goodbye and looking at the door because I was going out.
[00:17:53] You're seeing your year. That was my junior year. Yep.
[00:17:58] And what point did you start looking at the at the military?
[00:18:02] That year. Yep. I knew I, so yeah junior year, 1617 is when I knew I had to, I had to do that.
[00:18:12] I had no idea what anything was with the military. So it's funny because when I went to the recruiters,
[00:18:19] I didn't tell my dad and I went to all the recruiters. I had no preference.
[00:18:25] I had no preference. It wasn't like I had allegiance because you know, somebody's dad was in the Marine Corps forever or
[00:18:31] Or war of the Army colors or anything like that. I didn't care. I just wanted, I wanted to be a tough guy.
[00:18:37] So I went to each one of the recruiters and the vetting process was who could fast track me? Who could put me on a road to bad assory?
[00:18:46] The fastest. I wanted a fast track to bad assory. So at the time the Army had the best answer because they had two programs.
[00:18:56] They had Rangers and then they had the SF Baby program 18X Ray.
[00:19:02] So I signed up for that and I went home until my dad and my dad was like, he was a little put off because I didn't tell him.
[00:19:09] He said, hey, we're going back there, but I'm bringing my lawyer because I don't want this guy to fuck you. And sure, shit man, when I went back with the lawyer,
[00:19:18] He was doing some scramble and with the paperwork. He was changing some numbers or digits around or whatever.
[00:19:24] I'm so glad that my dad hooked me up like that, you know, because it could have gone really bad.
[00:19:30] I mean, I mostly did. I mean, it's so funny. It's so funny because I look at that career and you have to be so lucky with us.
[00:19:39] And I tell all these guys who contact me on the interwebs and stuff.
[00:19:44] They say, hey, I want to be a CEO, I want to be a force recount all this stuff.
[00:19:49] And it's hard to explain to them the amount not only how how tenacious you have to be, but the amount of luck involved in that.
[00:19:59] I say, guys, this is it's a good road to take. It's a bumpy road. There's no shortcuts.
[00:20:07] But it's a well, it's a road we're taking.
[00:20:10] But damn, man, I mean, because the amount of times I failed throughout my 22 year career, I could write a book just on failures.
[00:20:18] You know, on the amount of shit that I failed and had to go back and do again, the injuries and the recoveries and the surgeries and another failure,
[00:20:26] another failure, another failure, another failure. And I mean, and it's easy. It's pretty easy to go.
[00:20:34] Well, I failed that one. So I'm probably just not cut out for that thing.
[00:20:40] But with most special ops guys, they don't stop at one thing. They don't like, for instance, become airborne ranger and say, well, this is a, this is a pentacle.
[00:20:49] This is pentacle. I'm peeking out here. I'm going to just accept this. I mean, it's a great career path, but most of them say, what's the next step?
[00:20:59] You know, what's the next step? Let me go and see if I could, you know, go to Hale School. Let me go to combat dive school. Let me go to SF Course.
[00:21:08] Let me try out for selection and go to the uni. You know, for most of them, they want to keep progressing and progressing.
[00:21:14] So the opportunity in the, and the, not the opportunity, but the chance, the chances of failure become greater and greater because, you know, you're volunteering over and over and over.
[00:21:27] So whenever I talk to young kids and they want to be, you know, they have it, they have it in their mind. I want to be a seal. I'm like, that's great, but just understand, you know, I'm all about it.
[00:21:41] And, and, and, and, you know, if you've got a good, if you've got a good, but it's the hard part is for me is to tell them there's a lot of luck involved.
[00:21:50] Yeah. I thought you were going to say there's no shortcuts and there's no guarantee.
[00:21:54] That's, that's it, too. There's, yeah, just like that road. There's no shortcuts on that road. Yeah.
[00:21:59] Yep. That's why one thing that I, I, I, I pretty much, I, one thing I try not to do is say, yep, you should do it.
[00:22:08] Yeah. Because, and the worst thing about the Navy and going for the seal teams is, look, if that's what the kind of lifestyle you want to live, do you want to carry a machine gun? That's great, right?
[00:22:19] If you don't make it in the seal teams, then you're not carrying a machine gun, right?
[00:22:23] At all. Right. Hey, if you don't make it through SF or you don't make it as a Ranger, you don't make it to force Recon, you can still be a grunt when you're awesome.
[00:22:30] Right. And that's what you want to do. I want to be a grunt since I was born. Yep.
[00:22:33] So, so when I joined the Navy, I, I never thought about that. I didn't even recognize that. I was too dumb.
[00:22:40] But it's, it's no guarantee. There's no shortcut and the man, yeah, it takes luck. You, you land wrong on a jump.
[00:22:48] You, you know, get hurt for in, in the, in the basic seal training. There's something called rock shortage where there's big waves, your land in boats in these giant rocky area.
[00:22:57] And it's, it's, it's, it's too easy. Just to step off rock wave hits your knees blown out.
[00:23:04] Yeah. Two years of recovery, you put on weight, your fat, your outer shape, you know, you go back, you get stress fractures, you're done.
[00:23:11] I, that happens all the time. Yeah. It happens all the time.
[00:23:14] I was, I was a toad jumper. My second job. I was 18 years old.
[00:23:18] 18 years old. That's a freaking toad jumper. I got toad all the way across the front of Drunkstone.
[00:23:23] I buy, stepping into my forearm, broke my ribs, dislocated shoulder concussion. I mean, I was jacked up and I just joined.
[00:23:30] That was my first failure. That was number one.
[00:23:33] That, that set me back, bro. Yeah.
[00:23:36] That, and then that airplane again. Who?
[00:23:38] Was, what number jump was that for you? Number two.
[00:23:41] Oh, so I, I still had three left and three or four whatever it is in jump school.
[00:23:47] So, toe jumper is, that's, that's just a nightmare.
[00:23:52] Yeah. And they brief it all the time. I never seen one.
[00:23:56] Yeah. Um, they brief it all the time. So, talk us through, talk us through being a toe jumper.
[00:24:03] Well, for, I mean, for people who don't know, you know, when you start out a jump career, that's how you start with a, with static line.
[00:24:11] So, the static line is hooked to an inboard cable inside the aircraft and when you jump out of the airplane,
[00:24:17] you hit the, the, uh, the end of the static line and it deploys your shoot. It pulls the shoot out and subsequently, you know, the shoot in
[00:24:25] Flades and you float to the ground straight down. It's around shoot. There's not a lot of skill involved.
[00:24:30] Yeah. And the key part is that that one static line pulls the shoot out.
[00:24:34] It lets go. Right.
[00:24:36] That's, they're not connected. Right. So it just pulls the shoot out. The shoot is now inflated and the static line stays with the aircraft.
[00:24:42] That's, that's the aircraft. Yep.
[00:24:44] So, and there's a different way to, right. That's what's supposed to happen. There's a lot of different ways you could become a toe jumper.
[00:24:50] One is, it's a, it's a fault of the rigor. So the rigor did something and there's a not somewhere within the, um, uh, you know,
[00:25:01] the lines of the canopy or what have you.
[00:25:04] So those are pretty rare.
[00:25:07] Um, another, the more common one is a fault of the jumper. You know, so the jumper does something wrong.
[00:25:16] You know, he, he, he doesn't hand it to the, to the, to the safety the right way.
[00:25:22] His static line because as you, as you're going down, you know, the aircraft toward the door,
[00:25:29] you got the static line your hand and the last step before you exit is to hand it to the safety of the jump master.
[00:25:35] And he collects it up and he, you know, pushes him away from the jumper. So it's, uh, it's, it's, it's all very well rehearsed and it's choreographed.
[00:25:44] And if there's a lot of theater too, it looks cool. Um, so I must have just like chucked it at him and it got away from him and it went, like under my reserve and around my arm.
[00:25:59] So I'm not even halfway. I'm at the beginning of the stick. Uh, double door C 130.
[00:26:06] I'm at the beginning of the stick. I go out and instant fire through my whole body instant.
[00:26:13] I go, I hit the end of the static line and I feel my whole body just jerk and go with the aircraft.
[00:26:20] I was lucky that the static line was under my reserve and not just around the arm.
[00:26:27] Because that would, you know, my arm would just come off. Bro, you know, but, uh, so it's under the reserve around the arm.
[00:26:34] So there was some friction there with the static line around the equipment.
[00:26:39] Uh, the rest of it was around my arm. And I remember I had the whereabouts to look up the length of the static line.
[00:26:46] And I could see jumpers coming over the top of me.
[00:26:51] But this wasn't, now don't get me wrong. This was not me beat. I was scared shitless. You know, I was looking up going, oh my god.
[00:26:59] You know, this, this is, I was horrified. It was, you know, a moment of horn.
[00:27:05] Um, and over, over, over, I could see jumpers jumping over me and I'm going, what in the hell?
[00:27:11] You know, the training said, you know, put your hands on your reserve and wait to get pulled in and all this stuff and, um,
[00:27:18] and I'm not remembering it because I can't do this. I can't put my hands on.
[00:27:23] Because your arm is too jacked. Arms up. Yeah.
[00:27:25] Oh, he's your arms like tangled in the static line. Yep. Oh. Yep.
[00:27:28] Now, and the most of the tensions around the reserve.
[00:27:31] Uh, but some, and I keep hitting the airplane. So thankfully, I hit it.
[00:27:37] Just so everyone knows, because you're in 130, 140 mile an hour wind. Yep.
[00:27:41] That's what's, that's what's tossing you are. So I'm getting slammed up against the aircraft.
[00:27:46] And, um, thankfully, I get slammed hard enough and it comes loose.
[00:27:50] So I, you know, fall into the static line boom, shoot the place. Had, had that not happened.
[00:27:56] There's no way I would have had to wear about the puller. My reserve. No freaking way.
[00:27:59] Because I was already, you know, shocky. You know, the body is amazing.
[00:28:03] You know, when you reach, you know, pain level 10, the body would compensate.
[00:28:09] You know, and says, let's take care of you and put you into some shock here.
[00:28:13] So, you know, so you don't feel that bad. But I remember being very, very uncomfortable under canopy.
[00:28:19] And I was groaning and moaning just, you know, just moaning and groaning.
[00:28:24] And I was all the way at the end of the friaren. I was supposed to be like, way up at the leading edge.
[00:28:28] I was all the way at the end. I mean, right like at the wood line.
[00:28:33] Uh, and I hit the ground and I land on that side.
[00:28:38] Boom! Right on those ribs and all that soft shit. Right on that arm.
[00:28:42] Now to add insult to injury. I'm laying there and I'm going, you know, I'm just an 18 year punky kid bro.
[00:28:49] You know, I've done nothing but basic training at AIT.
[00:28:53] To add insult to injury. I'm laying there on the ground and a breeze comes in.
[00:28:58] Woo! My shoulder plates. My shoulder plates and it starts dragging it across fire drop.
[00:29:03] So, and I'm getting drug. And I can hear, you know, the black hat.
[00:29:07] So, the instructors out there would sit with stand on these platforms with bull horn.
[00:29:11] And they were, you know, placed throughout this massive, what's friaren drops in.
[00:29:15] I'm like, a two minute drop sooner or something.
[00:29:17] And gigantic. It's massive.
[00:29:20] And I could hear one of these black hat instructors.
[00:29:23] Y'all know me. Get up, leg. You over there. Get in drug.
[00:29:26] At least one of you can't be released.
[00:29:28] Can't be released. The assembly is now leg.
[00:29:30] And I'm going, oh my god. I better do what he says.
[00:29:32] Because I'm going to get in trouble.
[00:29:34] So I do that. I reach up and pop.
[00:29:36] Pop one of my cable loop type can if you release assemblies.
[00:29:39] And I'm scared. I'm scared. Because I think I'm going to get in trouble.
[00:29:44] You know, because I'm hurt and I didn't get permission to get hurt.
[00:29:48] This is the first time I was ever injured.
[00:29:51] Injured injured in my life. You know, real injury.
[00:29:54] I packed all my shit up.
[00:29:58] You know, I packed all that crap up into that kid bag.
[00:30:02] So we're done my back. And I remember being really, really scared because there was no signal from my head to my arm.
[00:30:08] You know, there was no transmission to make it move to make it work.
[00:30:13] And then I remember feeling my face and feeling blood.
[00:30:17] That was superficial, but you know, I hit the cut was superficial, but I hit hard.
[00:30:21] You know, against the aircraft. Boom, boom, boom, over and over.
[00:30:26] And so I got all my shit and I packed it up and I bring you know into the turn and area.
[00:30:32] And the black hats are scanned in the crowd.
[00:30:35] Because they know that somebody's fucked out of the area.
[00:30:37] They saw it. And they're scanned in the crowd. And I'm going, oh my god, no body comes up to my to me.
[00:30:42] He goes, hey bro, you look bad.
[00:30:45] Because I was, I guess just ashen white, you know, and I'm dry heaving stuff.
[00:30:50] And I look at my arm and he could see that it was the old school beat use.
[00:30:55] Like, Jen one beat use. I had roper and surround.
[00:30:58] And I go, yeah, man, I'm hurt really bad. I don't feel good.
[00:31:02] And he said, it let me help you with that.
[00:31:05] But my blouse and he looked and that's when I threw up because now I'm looking at this arm.
[00:31:09] And there was, there wasn't open.
[00:31:11] But it was like translucent the skin.
[00:31:13] And there was no bicep. And he kept pulling it down and boom, there was in my form.
[00:31:17] You know, by the.
[00:31:19] And so the black hats see that and they come running over you.
[00:31:23] The guy, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:24] Well, the meta-vac are he took off with some do with a broken femur.
[00:31:28] The bird already took off.
[00:31:30] So they had to bust me back on one of these blue bird school buses.
[00:31:33] All the way to Martin Army Hospital.
[00:31:36] And then to add more insult to injury.
[00:31:39] This is 1983.
[00:31:41] So there's a bunch of dudes in there with grenade injuries.
[00:31:44] Like, real jump injuries.
[00:31:46] You know, in the hospital's fill with these dudes, man, with rangers and guys from 82nd,
[00:31:50] who have like real combat jump injuries.
[00:31:53] And I'm here with this tow jumper, school 45th company,
[00:31:59] and I don't feel bad drag, you know, injury.
[00:32:03] I was like, oh my god, this sucks so bad.
[00:32:06] That was the beginning of the career.
[00:32:07] I mean, I had, but there was a lot of times like that.
[00:32:11] You know, in my, like I said, I could write a book on how many times I have failed.
[00:32:17] But they're funny. So I try to make it, I try to make it interesting and funny.
[00:32:21] How did you, just to rewind a little bit, what did you do to get ready?
[00:32:25] What did you know about special forces training?
[00:32:28] What did you do to get ready prior to going in?
[00:32:30] Well, I didn't have, I had, oh, prior to going in.
[00:32:34] Yeah, probably the one I was wrestling.
[00:32:36] I was lifting weights.
[00:32:37] I was doing a lot of hiking, you know, like camping and stuff.
[00:32:40] And is that because you knew?
[00:32:41] Yeah, I knew there were a part of it.
[00:32:43] Yep.
[00:32:44] I knew that there were woods men and stuff like that.
[00:32:45] I had a buddy who was, he was, I was a boy scout.
[00:32:49] I had a buddy who was an eagle scout and knew all the mountaineering stuff.
[00:32:53] He was really good.
[00:32:54] And we would go up and do ropes and repelling, you know,
[00:32:59] it's also good for fear management when you're a kid.
[00:33:02] You know, repelling off the side of a cliff is great.
[00:33:04] Stuff to help compartmentalize those, you know, fears of heights and things like that.
[00:33:10] But I did a lot of woods running, you know, and just, I,
[00:33:14] I think for me it was therapeutic and it was more about mental preparation than physical preparation.
[00:33:21] Physically, I was pretty freaking strong.
[00:33:24] I was, I was very fit.
[00:33:25] I was a very fit teenager, you know, and my, my latter teen years,
[00:33:30] 17, 18 years old.
[00:33:32] I was very self-driven.
[00:33:33] I wanted to be fit.
[00:33:35] I saw that, you know, that I looked cool too, you know.
[00:33:39] And, uh, that's a freaking motivator bro.
[00:33:42] When you're 17 and 18 and when you got a physique.
[00:33:46] So like, yep, I'm going to, I need to work out more because damn.
[00:33:50] It looks good.
[00:33:52] So getting jacked.
[00:33:54] Yeah, getting jacked.
[00:33:56] Yeah, that now when you got in, what was the shock to your system?
[00:34:00] Like day two of boot camp.
[00:34:02] Uh, so regular boot camp, that was, that was scary as hell.
[00:34:08] I love it how, how, you know, it's all theater.
[00:34:13] But you don't know that.
[00:34:14] No, you have no idea.
[00:34:16] But here's the thing too.
[00:34:18] Day two, it was the actual day two.
[00:34:22] See, they had the rules weren't in place yet in 1983 where,
[00:34:28] there, there came a point where drill sergeants couldn't physically,
[00:34:34] the beauties couldn't hit you.
[00:34:36] Yeah.
[00:34:38] That point hadn't happened yet.
[00:34:40] Mm-hmm.
[00:34:41] And I watched a drill sergeant right hook or a dude who, you know,
[00:34:46] made a move at him.
[00:34:48] Uh, information.
[00:34:49] You know, one of my peers private nothing.
[00:34:51] He's zero.
[00:34:52] Uh, and he was at parade rest and the drill sergeant was yelling at him.
[00:34:56] And they were both size for size.
[00:34:58] You know, they both looked like badasses.
[00:35:00] I remember looking at this, this punky kid in this drill sergeant.
[00:35:02] They both looked like badasses.
[00:35:04] And the kid, you know, made a jump boom and when I'm out of nowhere.
[00:35:09] I mean hook right to the freaking jaw, timber, drop boom.
[00:35:13] Just dropped and I, oh, that was a scary thing I ever saw.
[00:35:17] I never seen that in my life before, you know, like that.
[00:35:20] I mean, I saw some street fights, but that, you know,
[00:35:23] Mono Romano, that, that fearless guy in that hook was so freaking fast.
[00:35:28] Uh, and then seeing that guy just timber.
[00:35:31] Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.
[00:35:33] Yeah, I was, I was pretty scared.
[00:35:35] I know that when people listen to podcasts and they'll send me a message and be like,
[00:35:39] hey, I just joined.
[00:35:41] Just doing army, it's joined the Marine Corps, just joined the Navy.
[00:35:44] And I always say listen, the first two weeks, you're saying thank you right now.
[00:35:47] The first two weeks, you're going to be like,
[00:35:49] Haiti, you're going to wish you never listen to this podcast because it's such a
[00:35:53] shock to your system to have every freedom that you have as a human being,
[00:35:58] every sense of individuality and every sense of privacy, which is like three,
[00:36:03] some of the three primary things that we value.
[00:36:05] They're all gone.
[00:36:07] They're gone.
[00:36:08] It's a great culture shock.
[00:36:11] I love the way they do it.
[00:36:12] You know, I love it.
[00:36:14] The culture shock is real.
[00:36:16] You know, and if you're not used to it, you know, just some punky kid who is badass on the
[00:36:22] wrestling team and then you, you know, then your heads get shaved off and then you're,
[00:36:26] you look the same as everybody else and then, you know, you're sleep deprived.
[00:36:29] Sleep deprived.
[00:36:30] What is that?
[00:36:31] You know, and you have the time limit to eat in all, you know,
[00:36:35] and then call the constant freaking yelling and screaming in your face.
[00:36:39] Yeah, I think they do, they did well with the industry-based training when I went in and
[00:36:45] as I could recall, now I say kudos to those guys who were able to run it like that.
[00:36:51] I mean, once again, off the theater, you know, when I look back, if I were to go right now through it,
[00:36:57] I'm like, yeah, whatever.
[00:36:59] I'll play your game.
[00:37:00] I know you're not going to do anything to me.
[00:37:02] It's just going to suck.
[00:37:03] That's all.
[00:37:04] I think in though 83, 2, you had a bunch of Vietnam guys.
[00:37:07] Yes, or never mind still have a grenade up there.
[00:37:10] Damn, you guys had, you know, a lot of, I still had an omg guys in when I got to the teams,
[00:37:15] but, you know, it had been 20 years.
[00:37:18] So there's a lot of guys that retired at 20, a lot of guys that just got out after whatever they did two or three tours in Vietnam.
[00:37:23] But for you in 83, man, it was just, yeah, they were, they were, they were,
[00:37:29] when I went out even when I went to the SF course, they were thick. Oh, how heavy Vietnam that's going through the SF course.
[00:37:36] Oh, going through it.
[00:37:38] Dang, yeah, they were thick.
[00:37:39] And then when I got to a team and first group, you know, my team started was a 173 guy.
[00:37:45] You know, in Vietnam, and they were, they were a diamond dozen.
[00:37:49] I mean, you had all of the command were Vietnam, they were NCOs, you know, they were Vietnam,
[00:37:54] they were E7s and above.
[00:37:56] They were all Vietnam, that's.
[00:37:58] So how long did it take you to recover from the towed jumpers scenario?
[00:38:02] To jump or happened in October.
[00:38:06] And I finished jump school a couple months later in end of February.
[00:38:12] So you recovered and then went back to jump school?
[00:38:15] No, no, that's when I ended jump school.
[00:38:18] Yes, I recovered and finished jump school end of February.
[00:38:20] Is something like pretty quick recovery?
[00:38:22] Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:23] And you had to get Biceps surgery, right?
[00:38:24] Yep.
[00:38:25] Yep.
[00:38:25] And it was a mess because I split the Biceps in half.
[00:38:28] It wasn't like it separated from the tendon.
[00:38:31] It split the Bicep in half.
[00:38:33] So they had to salvage it.
[00:38:34] So it's about as big as the way it explains to me is the biggest round as a pencil.
[00:38:39] So you could imagine the amount of strength that you lose, you know?
[00:38:43] And you don't know how much you rely on a Bicep when it's.
[00:38:47] When it has to work in compound with other most for instance doing pull-ups.
[00:38:51] Because when I got to the Q course.
[00:38:54] So now you're starting all the freaking screaming and yelling and sleep deprivation and food deprivation all over yet.
[00:39:00] You're all over.
[00:39:01] You just finished it.
[00:39:02] But now you're doing more of it.
[00:39:04] Now you're back to being.
[00:39:05] See you at straight from jump school.
[00:39:06] Yeah, Q course.
[00:39:07] Yep.
[00:39:08] Matter of fact, but yep, right to and I started the Q course.
[00:39:10] Am I 19th birthday?
[00:39:12] Yep.
[00:39:13] March, yes, there was my birthday.
[00:39:16] March 5th to 1984.
[00:39:18] I started the Q course.
[00:39:20] And I'm March 4th.
[00:39:22] And in Cat McAll first phase.
[00:39:26] When they weren't screaming and yelling at you, you're doing classes patrolling and land-nav and survival and all this stuff.
[00:39:37] And you were able to get a hot A one hot meal a day.
[00:39:40] If you could do 10 pull-ups with your kid on and climb the rope and you're kid on.
[00:39:44] And most everybody was doing that.
[00:39:46] I wasn't doing it because I had no Bicep.
[00:39:48] And now this hurt my pride because I'm fit.
[00:39:52] I mean, I was a pull-up master.
[00:39:55] But I just finished all these months in hospital too.
[00:39:58] I hadn't done any PT.
[00:40:00] Nothing.
[00:40:02] So I had to get back into shape while I was getting back into shape.
[00:40:10] You know, during the training process, I had to get into shape.
[00:40:14] Because I was getting those hot rations.
[00:40:18] And I did. It took a while.
[00:40:20] But I got those things.
[00:40:22] And how long is a Q course?
[00:40:24] For me.
[00:40:26] It was a long time.
[00:40:28] Some of it depends on what your MOS is.
[00:40:32] Like your second phase.
[00:40:34] And I don't know how they run it now as far as like phases go.
[00:40:36] So there's a first phase which is all the basic skills.
[00:40:40] You're a little bit more reliable.
[00:40:44] You're patrolling.
[00:40:46] All you're repelating.
[00:40:48] All that stuff.
[00:40:50] And getting yelled at.
[00:40:52] You know, the first phase is sucks.
[00:40:54] Just the big suck fast.
[00:40:56] There's classes in between suck.
[00:40:58] Second phase depends on what your specialty.
[00:41:00] Yes.
[00:41:02] And you're an echo.
[00:41:04] Well, I started as weapons guy.
[00:41:06] Okay.
[00:41:07] Yep.
[00:41:08] And then a third phase which is you know, big field exercise.
[00:41:12] Yep.
[00:41:12] Doing like your fids and your UW and all that.
[00:41:16] The traditional special forces tasks.
[00:41:20] Right.
[00:41:22] So.
[00:41:24] But yeah, I I failed out of first phase.
[00:41:26] And it was.
[00:41:28] I failed first.
[00:41:30] I failed survival in first phase.
[00:41:32] Now, I was S.A. baby.
[00:41:34] Keep my end and the senior guys did not dig that they were
[00:41:37] private.
[00:41:38] It's going through the queue.
[00:41:39] Of course.
[00:41:40] There was some animosity there.
[00:41:41] They were digging that shit at all.
[00:41:43] They were like keepers of the crypt.
[00:41:45] You know.
[00:41:46] Survival was cool.
[00:41:48] And I don't think they run it.
[00:41:50] The same way anymore.
[00:41:51] I'm not even sure they do it all.
[00:41:53] But back in it was six days.
[00:41:54] You got no food.
[00:41:56] They send you.
[00:41:58] They they drop you off in an area of like you were a national force.
[00:42:03] And they give you one ration for those six days.
[00:42:06] And it's either alive, chicken or live rabbit.
[00:42:08] Now they teach you prior to you know you get you learn all the
[00:42:11] field craft stuff and everything you know how to make fire, how to
[00:42:14] kill stuff all this stuff.
[00:42:16] And then within those six days you have you have it list of 22 things
[00:42:20] you have to accomplish.
[00:42:21] And a lot of money is you know you got to build this massive signal.
[00:42:24] You got to build the shelter you got to keep a fire going 24
[00:42:27] seven.
[00:42:28] You got to find water.
[00:42:29] You got to filter water.
[00:42:30] You know just a lot of things.
[00:42:32] But I'm going to try to cut this one just a little short.
[00:42:35] But I was I was thriving and survive.
[00:42:38] I was kicking ass because I did a lot of it as a kid running around the
[00:42:42] woods, fishing and stuff like that.
[00:42:43] So I was crushing it and I found a pond.
[00:42:46] That was within the confines of my because they told you you know
[00:42:51] here is where you are.
[00:42:53] You could only move within this amount this radius.
[00:42:56] You know you can't go I forget what it was.
[00:42:58] But within the confines of my.
[00:43:01] My boundary I found a little pond.
[00:43:05] It was right on the edge of it.
[00:43:07] Well where there's pond people fish where people fish people throw trash
[00:43:11] and sure shit I find a little camping spot.
[00:43:13] And and I found trash and I was licking like Yodel Rappers and stuff.
[00:43:18] And I found a little remnants of chocolate.
[00:43:21] And I found fishing line in the tree in the trees because guys were cast
[00:43:26] and we you know so I climbed these trees and pull and meticulously pulled out
[00:43:30] all these.
[00:43:31] These nice long strings of of good fishing line,
[00:43:35] bobber hooks all this stuff.
[00:43:38] And as I'm looking around this campsite I see a beer cans sitting up on a log.
[00:43:43] And I go over I feel it and I go oh man there's beer.
[00:43:46] There's something in here smelling it.
[00:43:48] So I cut the top open with my knife and sure enough you know it's like
[00:43:52] two thirds full beer and there's bugs on it and I chuck a lug this thing.
[00:43:57] And then I go fishing and I catch a string of load of these massive bluegills.
[00:44:03] A string of load.
[00:44:04] I mean like sustenance like like I'm going to get full today.
[00:44:08] Now when you when I went back to my campsite you know priorities
[00:44:12] where it started over again get your fire going.
[00:44:14] Make sure you know everything square away because the tax or the instructors come
[00:44:18] by every night to check on you make sure you're alive and they read your log
[00:44:21] because you got a log what you did during the day.
[00:44:24] And he's looking at my stringer fish and I got some smoking you know.
[00:44:28] And he's like what in the hell?
[00:44:31] I said yeah I got it you know well all these fish and blah blah blah.
[00:44:35] And and I was chock I found that worms are when you're hungry they are good.
[00:44:42] And if you cook them there's they're just food bro.
[00:44:46] Yeah they're just I just food you know you cook them in a little bit of water
[00:44:50] and you're in your canteen cup there's nothing freaking gross about them and they are good.
[00:44:55] So I was I was chowin down not only on the worms but I was all this fish and I was smoking it.
[00:45:00] I had me kill my chicken yeah this is like day three.
[00:45:03] I had me kill chicken just walk I got them tied up with a little piece of the go to 550
[00:45:07] court just walk around.
[00:45:08] Yeah he's like my body.
[00:45:10] But that was part of the task I had to kill him eventually because that was
[00:45:15] on the checklist but I was saving him for a rainy day but the instructors reading my log
[00:45:21] and he goes what's this here about a beer and I go oh yeah yeah I found it blah blah.
[00:45:26] And this chicken chicken motherfucker pulls out his wallet and pulls out a card and he goes you have the right to remain silent.
[00:45:33] Anything you say can he read me my rights bro.
[00:45:37] Because you know why because I was drinking beer on duty.
[00:45:41] Dude this is survival bro he was pissed and I was surviving.
[00:45:46] So the end you were a private right and it was a private so that was the ten points so you have it.
[00:45:53] There was this point system and I already lost a bunch of points just doing dumb ass shit.
[00:45:58] But that was my last ten points I had to go I had to read they allowed me to recycle because I I
[00:46:04] and this is the last thing you do in in first first thing sucks man it sucks.
[00:46:09] I remember you know I'm patrolling being so cold and sleep deprived deprived that I piss myself you know.
[00:46:17] Like 33% security.
[00:46:19] I mean so now I have to do this all over again.
[00:46:23] First face but that that was the story of my life in the military.
[00:46:27] I mean that's the kind of thing though like you were saying earlier that's the kind of thing that gets people's heads.
[00:46:31] All right because they know I'm not they say I'm not doing all this again.
[00:46:36] I made it this far now you're going to tell me to do all that again.
[00:46:39] You guys are stupid.
[00:46:40] I'm going to be a part of this type of people that are assholes.
[00:46:43] No, not happening.
[00:46:44] They give your head for sure.
[00:46:45] It was very easy when I left chemical and went back to Fort Bragg and got hot you know childhood
[00:46:53] and me in a shower to go.
[00:46:55] Oh yeah this is this is come for you.
[00:46:59] This is where I want to stay.
[00:47:02] You know there's that point where you you could accept you know being mediocre
[00:47:07] where I could see it and I was like no fucking way man.
[00:47:10] I want that so bad I want that green beret so bad.
[00:47:14] I really want that and they are giving me the opportunity.
[00:47:19] Because they didn't have to they could have said fuck you.
[00:47:22] They're giving it to me hell.
[00:47:24] Yeah man I took that shit.
[00:47:26] Oh man.
[00:47:27] I did the same thing with combat die of school.
[00:47:30] And when did you go to combat die of school?
[00:47:32] Was that where you were already at a group?
[00:47:34] Yeah so I was in first group before you get there.
[00:47:37] What was the rest of you know the Q course?
[00:47:40] Yeah the Q course.
[00:47:41] Did you have to do language back then?
[00:47:43] Nope back then no language we did that when we got to group got it.
[00:47:46] Yep.
[00:47:47] So the rest of it just kind of it.
[00:47:49] It's suck because you because you needed some experience.
[00:47:52] You needed to know how to write an operations order and you needed to know what you
[00:47:56] know five point cutinity plan was and pace report and O'Cook and all those acronyms.
[00:48:01] You know it was a private you don't have any of that.
[00:48:03] Guys who were coming and they've had you know 80 second back 80 second Arab
[00:48:07] Born background or Rangers.
[00:48:08] I mean they're actually square away squad leaders.
[00:48:11] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
[00:48:12] They knew the Ranger handbook you know by heart inside out.
[00:48:16] I knew none of that shit none of it none of it.
[00:48:19] So thankfully there was these staffs aredons and he's seven who saw me and
[00:48:25] went there's something about you and they kind of took on the responsibilities
[00:48:31] mentor and I jumped on it.
[00:48:35] I jive hung out with those guys you know these guys were like first range of
[00:48:39] battalion you know 80 second Arab I mean they were hardened
[00:48:43] infantry dudes for like six years already and they knew all that shit all of it
[00:48:50] because there's no way without them there's no way I would have made it no
[00:48:57] freaking way you just don't have you don't have the freaking sense and you got to know
[00:49:02] there comes a time when you're going through training like that where you got to know
[00:49:05] you know what who am I going to align myself with.
[00:49:08] Who is it that I'm going to align myself with and and I can't look like a shit head
[00:49:13] I got to make sure that I'm never late light out uniform because otherwise
[00:49:17] these square to waste soldiers they're not going to want me to hang out with them.
[00:49:21] You know if I'm just some piece of shit who's literally
[00:49:25] strapping and onto them I want them to want me to hang out with them.
[00:49:31] So I made that happen by you know being work ethic you know
[00:49:37] volunteer for the shit duties out in the field that kind of thing.
[00:49:40] Because nobody wants to volunteer you know when you're not patrolling nobody wants
[00:49:45] to volunteer when you're patrolling and so I mean say we need to build this or go
[00:49:50] on this reconnaissance and say oh but I could stay here in a patrol base.
[00:49:56] So I volunteer for everyone of those things but you know I learned a lot on those two
[00:50:02] because I'm with some infantry badass dude some grunt and you know he's teaching me along
[00:50:10] with me just OJT so I mean I made it by the skin of my teeth I would say
[00:50:15] you know that training I did not graduate is that on a graduate or anything like that
[00:50:20] but you know down the road I did very well at different schools
[00:50:25] but well it's like that thing where you know you get the kids in school that got
[00:50:29] held back a year you know and they they do a lot better.
[00:50:32] I mean obviously you know when you're that young and I was the same way
[00:50:36] I was 18 and it's like I look back now and I'm like well I'm the same thing
[00:50:40] like okay I'm glad I made it through because there was guys that were a little older
[00:50:44] and you just think man they had a they just knew more they were physically more developed
[00:50:49] than I was and you know just just trying hang on man.
[00:50:53] Hang on.
[00:50:54] Yeah let me just snap a link to you man.
[00:50:59] Yep I got a little bit of a line.
[00:51:01] That's another thing is in basic seal training there's you don't learn you basically
[00:51:08] don't learn anything.
[00:51:09] Right it just six months of just so just yeah just this is just going to suck
[00:51:13] you don't really you don't go on.
[00:51:15] I mean like I said you don't go on patrols you know you go through the land war
[00:51:19] fair phase which is six weeks and you go on a you know you go along homsts you do these
[00:51:23] little missions but it's not it's it's not anything it's you don't you're not actually
[00:51:28] learning anything you're just having to suck it off.
[00:51:31] It's a good way to trim the fat though.
[00:51:32] You don't really want to be here because SF what now they have you know like a selection
[00:51:37] and assessment process back then it was called pre-phase.
[00:51:40] So it was just a couple weeks of just beat down.
[00:51:43] Yeah that's it was PT four times a day and you know three hours of sleep a night
[00:51:47] for a cup and there was no rhyme or reason to it.
[00:51:51] Nothing it was not a I don't think there was a single piece of hip pocket training
[00:51:55] you know it was just formation run push-ups sit-ups get up get down roll over
[00:52:01] go clean this clean that pick up those pine cones PT again
[00:52:07] it just yeah just to beat down but it was a good way to trim the fat for
[00:52:12] you guys are like fuck this.
[00:52:15] Oh man.
[00:52:17] So you graduate you get through and then where where did you go from I went to first group
[00:52:21] out of Fort Lewis and Washington.
[00:52:23] Yeah Arctic jungle.
[00:52:25] Yep.
[00:52:26] We used to go up there and trade.
[00:52:28] Right.
[00:52:29] It's freaking awesome.
[00:52:30] Arctic jungle really yeah south wind your training area you know that's like a jungle
[00:52:34] and if big foot exists that's where he lives.
[00:52:37] 100% that's where he lives man.
[00:52:40] Holy crap.
[00:52:41] So you check in so what would you do when you check in you go to an 18 right out of the
[00:52:44] right out of the gate I went right to an 18 and man talk about being intimidated
[00:52:49] all over again.
[00:52:50] I'm not only private on this team.
[00:52:52] You know team sergeant's Vietnam vet.
[00:52:55] I mean the team commander was badass.
[00:53:00] There were two other there was another Vietnam vet and every one of these dudes
[00:53:04] was from range of battalion not even 80 second they were all
[00:53:07] Rangers all of them and then me.
[00:53:10] Yep.
[00:53:12] Me no asset I have nothing to offer.
[00:53:15] What am I?
[00:53:16] I'm a cherry weapons dude on a freaking 18 just a cherry.
[00:53:19] Who could pt is asshole.
[00:53:22] Yeah that was it.
[00:53:23] You know I could pt my ass off and I could volunteer for all the shit duties and make sure that
[00:53:28] every you know all my kid is squared away and that and that I'm going to.
[00:53:33] I'm going to you know I'm going to stay out of trouble.
[00:53:35] So you've been learning army for what like two years at this point?
[00:53:38] No yeah yeah yeah if that you're the half a year and a half any other guys been
[00:53:42] in the army for ten years.
[00:53:43] Oh right.
[00:53:44] 12 years six year nine years and you're the only guy that's it.
[00:53:47] Yep.
[00:53:49] Yep.
[00:53:50] It was.
[00:53:51] And there are non-vets.
[00:53:52] Yes right.
[00:53:53] I was the new guy so many times even when I went to first year.
[00:53:56] You need five or something like that.
[00:53:57] Yeah no before this is 84 when I went to first year.
[00:54:00] 84.
[00:54:01] I got there and 84 beginning 85.
[00:54:05] The cool thing too is I got opportunity just like that boom boom boom.
[00:54:10] Do you want to go to this school that's going to say hell yeah semi you know if you're
[00:54:14] asking me then yeah they answer yes I want to do all of the things yeah all I don't want
[00:54:21] to just write it out and accept mediocrity you know and be just be another dude I want
[00:54:26] to be top on that totem pole.
[00:54:30] So my.
[00:54:34] Battalion Sergeant Major was famous of Vietnam that like Donald J. Taylor.
[00:54:42] But highly decorated.
[00:54:45] He saw me one morning and I was running through the battalion area and he goes private
[00:54:51] my career.
[00:54:52] And he looked a member Jack B. Jack Polanci actor.
[00:54:56] Yep.
[00:54:57] He's kind of like Jack Polanci you know.
[00:54:58] Had that skull on his face.
[00:54:59] I go yes I made a run over snapped parade rest because I'm having a surprise and
[00:55:03] spiction at the barracks this morning.
[00:55:05] You know what you to be my recorder.
[00:55:08] I'm like oh I'm going my room is fucked up.
[00:55:13] Yeah it's Jack.
[00:55:15] It's Jack well the thing is like that morning I got a call from Greyhound because I
[00:55:21] shipped all my stuff Greyhound because back then you know it was like 15 dollars anywhere
[00:55:27] in the country.
[00:55:28] So I had ship from Fort Bragg to Fort Lewis all my duffel bags and my team started to
[00:55:35] go pick your ship a Greyhound.
[00:55:39] I went and brought it back to my room dumped it all over the freaking room and then right after
[00:55:42] accountability formation at like 0 9 or whatever that's when he grabbed me and I'm going
[00:55:46] Oh my god.
[00:55:47] I go Roger that's something when you want to start.
[00:55:49] You got something to write on something to write with.
[00:55:52] I think yes yes I'm like start right now.
[00:55:57] And my room I we did three we lived in the old I was those World War Two barracks.
[00:56:03] I know World War Two the white freaking the raised they got the big cross based underneath
[00:56:10] of it.
[00:56:11] And I swear my my was the last room to get inspected last building last room and he's been
[00:56:18] ransacked and shit I mean dump and drawers and knocking over beds you know there was something
[00:56:23] to skew with something he was just ransacked and look for clues or booty you know look
[00:56:30] for paraphernalia he got to mine open up that door and there's shit everywhere and he goes
[00:56:36] who in a fuck's real ass and he looks at the name tag and the door and he looks at me
[00:56:42] and he kind of smiles and he opens this I should you this house clever no wit you know wit
[00:56:50] I like I appreciate wit would guys have wit and this is how witty those dudes are.
[00:56:55] He opened up the first door let it hit the floor bam and shit just freaking jumps out of
[00:57:00] it and in that drawer I had three seven six two rounds you couldn't have ammo in the barracks
[00:57:06] and I had two hundred dollars in cash you couldn't have that amount of cash in the barracks either.
[00:57:11] And he picks up the money and he picks up the bullets and he walks over to me and he looks at the money goes
[00:57:16] this is a bribe for whoever finds these.
[00:57:19] He drops and he just hey make a right to the bread basket.
[00:57:25] I mean I double over but that wall to wall counseling back then I would much rather have
[00:57:32] that than article fifty for sure.
[00:57:35] But my shit was wrapped so tight after that.
[00:57:38] I mean I never ever ever fucked up again.
[00:57:41] I mean I thought I was squirreting away before that no I was I was on like a bonnet.
[00:57:47] You know what I was talking about this another day like the.
[00:57:51] It sounds like you're going through the same thing one thing that was awesome for me when I joined the Navy.
[00:57:56] Is.
[00:57:57] What I wanted to do what I would I really just wanted to do is just like be a good seal.
[00:58:02] Yeah and like whatever I could do to try and be a good seal.
[00:58:05] And when that's your goal.
[00:58:07] Man it's like your whole life is pretty good because like when you're trying to stay safe you're trying to get
[00:58:13] your gear ready you're trying to be squared away like that's what you're trying to be a good teammate you're trying to volunteer for stuff.
[00:58:17] It's such a.
[00:58:18] It's it's you know when you hear there's a lot of the people run around now myself including.
[00:58:23] Included saying like hey you got to have a mission you got to be you know driving towards
[00:58:27] if you got to be meaning is found in responsibility Jordan Peterson right right right right.
[00:58:31] Well for me it's like oh.
[00:58:32] Guess how lucky I was I was a total knucklehead kid.
[00:58:36] And and I had an aim my aim was this broad thing of like a ham and a try and be good seal.
[00:58:42] Right like if that's what you're trying to do man it just it puts you on a path right you know put you on a good path.
[00:58:48] Yep and it sounds like pretty similar for you getting on a good path.
[00:58:51] Hey I want to be a good special forces soldier and when you screw something up you tighten up even more.
[00:58:57] Yep and and and you know and.
[00:59:01] They were always given me opportunity to improve myself and I never let one of those opportunities pass.
[00:59:08] I mean do you want to go like combat dive skills like hell yet that's another one I failed by the way.
[00:59:13] How do you fail combat dive well here's the thing I do nothing about nothing.
[00:59:17] No I had no idea what that's I thought I was going to like die for conquer shells and key west or something.
[00:59:24] No idea none no preschool which is a prerequisite okay just that hey Pat Mack private Mac you're fit.
[00:59:32] Will you a water guy at all yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm yeah I'm strong in the water and I was on a water team Scott swim team okay with infert and first group.
[00:59:42] So a lot of surface swimming you know just dragon a rock surface swim.
[00:59:50] I went to combat dive school and once again you know everybody scream and actually your PT until you're freaking you know I got an embellicle hernia.
[01:00:01] We peent 50s what's the embellicle hernia.
[01:00:04] But water is the great equalizer it is indeed there is no doubt about it and so when.
[01:00:13] When they started having to do it cropped like the PT thing I was like all right this sucks the sucks been then you know you have a couple classes and then right to the pool and everybody scream and add you and you're trying to get your gear in as fast as possible.
[01:00:26] And you know you got these 2080s on your back and the second stage is stuffed into your BC and you're not breathing a stuff it just all wait 20 pound wait about.
[01:00:36] Mount the gunnell paired out of the water and then terror you know with the crossovers so the crossover thing to me blew my mind talk about you know.
[01:00:50] How to make somebody humble you know how to suck the freaking life right out of you.
[01:00:56] It's a clean crossovers so this particular pool you know it was what's what's a Olympic swimming pool.
[01:01:03] The 50 by 25.
[01:01:06] Yeah it's pretty wide it's pretty.
[01:01:08] Yeah it's probably 50 by 25 so it's like 25 and this pool was nice it was 18 feet to Dean.
[01:01:14] So you've got guys on each side of the gunnell so on each side of the pool so and you're you're you're.
[01:01:24] Chester back you're just stacked up and you got a mask on and you got your buoyancy compensator you got your 2880s you got a 20 pound wait belt you got air notes thanks you're just not breathing that regulator stuffed in your BC.
[01:01:40] So you got the instructor yell out prepare the crossover crossover so one you both sides go underwater and the objective is to make it to the other side.
[01:01:51] One side goes shallow one side goes deep and you come up and you get a few puffs before they say prepare the crossover crossover it ain't enough time.
[01:02:03] No pre-scoob it you had you haven't experienced this and then you do it again and again and again and people start dropping like flies and what the.
[01:02:15] When they're dropping is it quitting yeah with sometimes with me for example it wasn't necessarily I didn't say I quit I refused to get off the wall because it was a shock because I already had a shallow water black out.
[01:02:28] They and with the shallow water black out it's basically once again the human body is cool because you won't let you drown unless you want to drown unless you inhale water you're you're going to pass out before that happens.
[01:02:44] So when you hold your breath long enough you just pass out and their school that they should they know because they happen to people all time so they go down they freaking bring you up and usually as soon as you come back up and they slap you on the surface.
[01:02:55] You're you're revived you're coming out of it and then it takes you a while you know you're like holy shit that was scary and then they ask you once you're revived the give you some oxygen do you want to get back in the water.
[01:03:06] The answer for me was yes I do and then I had another one and the next day during crossovers.
[01:03:14] It was I had that other one they said you want to get back in the water yes I do another crossover and I couldn't get off the wall and the rule was they tell you three times and you're out get off the wall mister.
[01:03:25] They want you to succeed they want it they want you to there's like I'm telling you that's the first one I'm going to give you another one mister get off my wall.
[01:03:37] It's not get off my wall get off my wall you know they want they want you to want you're a you're a fellow SF right right yeah they want you to want this so.
[01:03:44] Super super professional cadre.
[01:03:58] I was volunteer for sure for instance I had a body who during ship bottom search.
[01:04:15] You feel you're you're 28 is in the in the muck in that and and and you're basically wanting with your hand the bottom of this boat.
[01:04:28] This ship and you could feel that ship rising and sinking just a little bit just a little bit just a couple inches but what happened to my body mind.
[01:04:37] There was a type of cylinder rate type of jellyfish that was on the ship itself and when he was washing basically washing the ship they went down his blouse into his shorts and he got a freaking he got like.
[01:04:51] Stung by jellyfish all the way from his chest always ball sack so it was medical emergency up on short this is a funny thing.
[01:05:04] When we got him on shore he's going he's burning up you know it's jellyfish and so here's a grown man and this is one time where you don't question the shit we're a grown man is ripping his clothes open he's going piss on my face piss on my dick.
[01:05:17] We're all trying to you know we we're all shrunk up because we're frozen and we got a bix in our hands and we're like five dudes piss and I'm one guy.
[01:05:25] He had a really bad reaction and he started throwing up and he failed the next days.
[01:05:34] So I was a little nervous because I didn't want to slow him down and we we mind the gut on when and boom you know got the surface got his bearings.
[01:06:03] He gave me a freaking.
[01:06:05] You know the go down signal and we start feeling and I am struggling to keep up with him and now I'm on his tether.
[01:06:14] You know I'm like I can't I can't I have to keep up with his dude and he is an absolute cyborg.
[01:06:21] And that was a hardest I ever worked in my life because now I'm working for me I'm working for somebody else and I can't let this dude down you know it's like oh my god, but he crushed it he crushed it.
[01:06:32] What was the time space between you failing dives going and going back in your.
[01:06:36] Okay so this is like oh no no six months that was six months.
[01:06:41] Yeah six months one year was for selection were you guys were you guys we guys going on deployments at this time.
[01:06:49] Yes, okay yeah and where were you guys to point to for us in first group was southeast Asia Thailand Malaysia those kind of things.
[01:06:58] Yeah and it's cold war right yep cold war fed stuff peace time army.
[01:07:06] Yeah, dude did you have to learn a language at this point yeah I was pretty good at tie I didn't do it was a condensed course like a three month.
[01:07:13] You know see you learn all the survival skills and all that but yeah.
[01:07:18] And then then where did you go when you how long did you stay there for how long just first group well like three and a half years and then I got recruited.
[01:07:27] I got recruited by some dude.
[01:07:31] I got we're he had a list of 10 10 10 names on this on this sheet in the folder and company star majors told us we had to go to this meeting and he's some dude he's civilian clothes and he's got long hair.
[01:07:50] The it's so vague what he's explained to us he goes yeah it's a cold war job and it's in Europe.
[01:07:57] It's it kind of felt like will Smith a men and black when he's going now what are we doing here again.
[01:08:01] What we're looking for the first or the best or the but you know that kind of shit had no idea but I knew it was something bigger than what I was doing currently so once again opportunity not.
[01:08:10] I pretty jumped on that ship man and what we were doing with that is how we were like.
[01:08:17] And that works for double agents working in Berlin.
[01:08:23] So before that went and got German language as well.
[01:08:26] But that was a cool job because it was some real cloaken dagger shit you know there's some books written about it now that are pretty cool did you go over there like undercover.
[01:08:35] No that one no okay there's different times when I did we had it like that it was soft cover and you had to have for that one you have to have cover fraction cover status you know why you here.
[01:08:44] You know I'm just some military nougke because we had you know.
[01:08:49] Tracks to its leather jackets mallets you know you know all that freaking looking like Eastern euro trash.
[01:08:58] Body odor smoke and cigarettes.
[01:09:02] That was a good one.
[01:09:05] I did that for about a year and a half and then.
[01:09:08] I got recruited by some other dude.
[01:09:11] He came and he was looking he had one name on his list that was mine.
[01:09:17] Well because I had there was certain things they were looking for it was a very.
[01:09:22] The skill set was very particular.
[01:09:26] He had to be good at the language he had to be good at like driving and there were certain different motor skills you know all these tests anyway I met the quote I met the data that he was looking for.
[01:09:37] And now this guy's in uniform but he's as F guy and I said there's another SF job here he goes yeah man he was we're spying on the Soviet army and so we eat Germany.
[01:09:51] Let's get the fuck out of here.
[01:09:53] I should have never heard of this.
[01:09:55] It's just now there's only seven slots seven SF slots seven.
[01:09:59] So I jumped on that one.
[01:10:01] So that was more school as I had to go to whip it Warsaw Pack ID school in England more driving schools get my language because now I'm working in East Germany.
[01:10:12] There's second language in English even you know what I'm talking about I mean you know.
[01:10:19] And I did that for about two years that was cool and once again you're going over there as an army dude on this one I was over as an army dude.
[01:10:27] The cover for action cover for status on that one is or we were liaison to the Soviet army.
[01:10:33] They all knew what the hell we were doing.
[01:10:35] It was paper thin man the cover was paper thin and it was all cat mouth they knew it they issue what they're doing it back to us.
[01:10:44] They were doing it back to us in West Germany.
[01:10:46] We were way more aggressive.
[01:10:49] I think at the time 95% of the intelligence on the Soviet army was coming from those units.
[01:10:55] So in East Germany the US was doing it the French and the Brits and we would all rotate sectors and it was scary it was scary gay because.
[01:11:03] They were the Soviets reserved the the right to.
[01:11:07] To kill you.
[01:11:09] They issued you maps and on these maps they had these yellow mark yellow areas and they were called PRAs permanently restricted areas.
[01:11:17] And you couldn't go in those those areas.
[01:11:19] Well that's where all the good shit was you know all the frigging KGB coms and all the new stuff.
[01:11:24] So we'd probe those things.
[01:11:26] And it was it was so the cover was paper thin how we were doing stuff was you know you had you were going over with two guys.
[01:11:41] One of the guys was at sfdude.
[01:11:44] The other was a an officer who was a so Russian fail or something like that or a into a weaning.
[01:11:53] No no tactical skills whatsoever.
[01:11:57] I mean I remember sitting down when you say you go over with that we go from from West Berlin to East Germany into East Germany across the Gleeneca broker and we had a Soviet credentials.
[01:12:11] And we would go to the like the consulate or what was something like that and deliver mail.
[01:12:18] So that was how we got in and we did it all the time it was you know several times we yeah and then when as soon as you cross the bridge and you deliver your mail.
[01:12:28] You were you stayed in country now for about three days and you did your mission and you had.
[01:12:36] You know a list of.
[01:12:38] Tass.
[01:12:39] I was jacked.
[01:12:40] Yes you had you had your essential task lists and and your will be will be like a task that you be.
[01:12:46] So one of them would be.
[01:12:49] There's because satellite footage still existed so what's going on in cut bus.
[01:12:56] There's a big mil to exercise what we need is.
[01:13:00] Just pictures of the vehicles and unit affiliation see who is there unit affiliation satellites can't get unit affiliation but you know we can get up close to the ball pictures of all the vehicles and the vins.
[01:13:10] Get unit affiliation another one might have been railways were a big one railways you know what's coming in from.
[01:13:17] To check side polish side what is coming in to Falconburg into the work train station and it all actually was tarped but we we were experts in topology too we can read the piece of equipment under a target.
[01:13:33] You know you're going to be a very important.
[01:13:43] I'm talking like.
[01:13:45] Beater.
[01:13:49] 80 p.b. to a regular to a beater 70 you know.
[01:13:54] Yeah we even know the variance under tarp it was it was good shit that was a fun ask freaking job.
[01:14:00] We're traveling in a Mercedes-Benz.
[01:14:04] Because we're not undercover traveling because we're a liaison to say we don't.
[01:14:09] So we're in a O.D. Green Mercedes-Benz.
[01:14:13] It's super dumb man.
[01:14:15] It was very very high speech in a low speed world.
[01:14:19] You know we had a dashboard with toggle switches where you could control.
[01:14:25] For instance as soon as you went over the bridge it was SOP turned off switch number one because I killed the horn because you don't want to have it horn A.D.
[01:14:33] There was like a one switch where you another one you turn off the brake lights.
[01:14:38] No the license plate illuminator.
[01:14:41] Okay.
[01:14:42] But you had a brake light disable or you had even disabled one side.
[01:14:46] So from a distance you look like a motorcycle.
[01:14:48] You know all that stuff.
[01:14:50] And then so it was a two-seater and the back was a big sheet of ethethome with holes cut.
[01:14:55] And each hole filled a Nikon lens.
[01:14:58] And each lens was attached to an F1 body bro.
[01:15:01] Every freaking one of them.
[01:15:03] Yep so you just reached back boom 500 mirror.
[01:15:06] Just went to town and then we had a video.
[01:15:12] Camer, it's mounted like basically where the visors are with the remote on the dash.
[01:15:19] So it was high speed shit in a low speed world.
[01:15:22] For sure.
[01:15:23] Yeah it was fun.
[01:15:24] Yeah you helped man.
[01:15:25] Boom.
[01:15:26] Especially if you got a big hit because it was competition with the other tour guides.
[01:15:30] We were called tour guides.
[01:15:32] So you know who could get the biggest hit.
[01:15:35] I got a SA24 new.
[01:15:40] SA24 new in the time was called beatarits.
[01:15:44] And we heard that it might be coming in.
[01:15:47] And you know so we hung out and I was always with a square away officer at the time too.
[01:15:55] He had been to range your school.
[01:15:57] He wasn't a range but he had been to range your school.
[01:15:59] And he got a scholarship.
[01:16:02] West Point scholarship for football.
[01:16:04] So he's a fit dude too.
[01:16:06] So I was with this dude.
[01:16:07] So I was fired up and we were going after this SA24.
[01:16:12] And we ended up.
[01:16:14] It's a long story.
[01:16:17] I'm just going to cut it short.
[01:16:18] We were hiding behind a hay bail.
[01:16:20] The land owner came out.
[01:16:22] He smashed his the front of our vehicle.
[01:16:26] Because we're not we're trespassing.
[01:16:28] We explain this is.
[01:16:30] Come in.
[01:16:31] You're you're coming.
[01:16:32] It's bro.
[01:16:33] You don't own this shit.
[01:16:34] This is so be it.
[01:16:35] But he gets he apologize.
[01:16:39] His invite us to his house.
[01:16:40] His house is right on the tracks.
[01:16:43] He's going to be a cool in the backyard.
[01:16:45] Orient the cameras.
[01:16:46] Check out the orientation and everything.
[01:16:48] Have a camera with us at the ready.
[01:16:50] Because they don't know what we're doing.
[01:16:52] We're just fucking off in his field.
[01:16:55] You know, he's Americans.
[01:16:56] They service tea and coffee.
[01:16:58] Train comes.
[01:16:59] We get the whole video footage.
[01:17:00] We get all the stills.
[01:17:01] We get all the freaking numbers on it.
[01:17:03] And we're sitting in this dudes backyard.
[01:17:05] Yeah.
[01:17:06] So that was a big hit.
[01:17:08] But yeah, that was a fun job.
[01:17:10] Because I got chased by all kind of shit like T80.
[01:17:13] SS 21.
[01:17:16] And the thing about Soviet kids is there's so much of it.
[01:17:19] So big.
[01:17:20] You know, I mean, it's massive.
[01:17:22] Like there was this one called.
[01:17:25] Two pictures are p.
[01:17:27] Between triple stripes three p.
[01:17:29] PTF.
[01:17:30] PTF.
[01:17:31] Yeah.
[01:17:32] It's like a, it's a tracked pontoon.
[01:17:35] That takes tanks across the river.
[01:17:37] Got it.
[01:17:38] It's just massive.
[01:17:39] It's like the brana source of the kit world.
[01:17:42] We have nothing that big, you know, and that moves that fast.
[01:17:45] And then there are BMP ones are like the velociraptors of the kit world.
[01:17:49] You know, they're just, I mean, it's not, it's all in a horrible state of repair.
[01:17:55] But if you got a shitload of it, it's not.
[01:17:57] It's getting worse.
[01:17:59] But that's cool that you were doing real stuff in the 80s.
[01:18:02] Yeah, yeah.
[01:18:03] Yeah.
[01:18:04] Most of the guys at that time weren't doing anything.
[01:18:05] Yeah.
[01:18:06] You know what, I was so fortunate.
[01:18:08] I never, one of the things I'm, I'm careful is I always, I always, make sure I tell
[01:18:16] people that I was very fortunate.
[01:18:17] I was very lucky that I had the best mentors and I never, ever, breast of my laurels.
[01:18:24] You know, I know the world's buckback there and how is the bad guys.
[01:18:28] Yeah, I'm a bad ass tomorrow.
[01:18:29] I don't need to rest in my laurels because I hate those guys.
[01:18:33] Yeah.
[01:18:34] Yeah, yesterday.
[01:18:36] And I don't reflect upon a lot, but it's interesting.
[01:18:40] Yeah.
[01:18:41] It's interesting.
[01:18:43] It was an interesting career.
[01:18:46] Yeah.
[01:18:47] And like, as I read some of the stuff that you don't, I kind of piece together, not just what's like out there,
[01:18:52] but you know, I kind of piece together what I know about, you know, so I have a little bit more in that.
[01:18:56] I can feel in some holes.
[01:18:57] Yeah.
[01:18:58] And that's what got me thinking about, you know, when I was open up talking about like soldier skills.
[01:19:01] I think about all the different things that you did and how the variety in the career.
[01:19:05] And I know like when you, I mean, I know you went to some kind of camera school and you went to some identification in field developing.
[01:19:11] Yes.
[01:19:12] All that stuff.
[01:19:13] And I'm like, oh, yeah, he did all that.
[01:19:14] And then he did scuba and then he did, you know, like everything that you've done.
[01:19:17] That's why I was asking about languages like that now you got tie.
[01:19:19] You got, you got like, you know, it skills.
[01:19:22] Yeah.
[01:19:23] And I'm scratching the surface.
[01:19:25] Yeah.
[01:19:26] Exactly.
[01:19:27] It was so lucky.
[01:19:28] You know, because it's nothing.
[01:19:30] I was, you know, I'm not like some stellar super soldier.
[01:19:34] I was very lucky.
[01:19:36] And I always make sure that when opportunity knocked in an answer to the door.
[01:19:41] And that man, that paid off big time.
[01:19:45] And then if I failed something, I wouldn't say, I fucking man, anything for me.
[01:19:48] I'm like, no, I got to avenge that shit because I won't be defeated.
[01:19:52] That defeated me.
[01:19:53] No, there's no way.
[01:19:54] I'm going back and kicking that ass.
[01:19:57] So what was next? What's the next?
[01:20:00] So I was there through re-inification.
[01:20:05] That had to be crazy.
[01:20:06] Yeah, that was cool.
[01:20:07] That was cool shit.
[01:20:08] So I was there through re-inification.
[01:20:10] So, you know, the walk came down 89 re-inification 91.
[01:20:13] So I was there during that whole thing.
[01:20:16] But now my job is drying up.
[01:20:18] And I'm having a train.
[01:20:21] The Bundesnahrisch deez.
[01:20:24] It's like a German FBI.
[01:20:25] I'm pretty sure I got that right.
[01:20:26] It's been a long time since I accessed that database.
[01:20:29] But, um, so I have to train them.
[01:20:32] And, uh, you know, we're handing over that job because they just have to see the withdrawal now.
[01:20:36] And all that.
[01:20:37] I don't want any part of that.
[01:20:38] So the next step was to go to, you know, try to get my foot in the door and use the sock.
[01:20:43] Mm-hmm.
[01:20:44] And so I went.
[01:20:46] I've got to slot to go to selection.
[01:20:49] Day-freakin-one.
[01:20:52] I bring my ankle.
[01:20:54] How'd you break your ankle?
[01:20:56] So, on the first day there's a, um, so no more yelling and screaming.
[01:21:00] There's no more at.
[01:21:01] You know, you're just taking a structure from a chalkboard and you're making sure you're not late.
[01:21:04] Late, late, out of uniform.
[01:21:05] And you're getting food, too.
[01:21:07] It's just, now it's, it's all big boy rules.
[01:21:10] You know, it's a totally different game.
[01:21:12] It's totally different tests.
[01:21:13] Totally, completely different, you know,
[01:21:15] it, because it tests resolve and whether or not you have heart and,
[01:21:20] if you're capable of deductive reasoning.
[01:21:23] And if you are, um, resolute.
[01:21:26] And if you have, um, um,
[01:21:28] uh, uh, uh,
[01:21:32] yeah, besides deductive, deductive reasoning,
[01:21:34] there's another term.
[01:21:35] I'll think of it here in a second.
[01:21:37] But, um, so day-one, there's a, I won't disclose too much of it just because I don't want to ruin it for people who may go in the future.
[01:21:46] But there's a physical movement, you know,
[01:21:48] it's a movement and it's at night.
[01:21:50] Uh, with a rock on, it's nothing hard.
[01:21:52] And I think it's there kind of is a, uh, like a litmus test, you know,
[01:21:56] maybe to shank out patrol.
[01:21:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:22:00] And you're on your own.
[01:22:01] You're doing this thing on your own.
[01:22:02] But it's at night.
[01:22:03] Now you're not, you know, you're on dirt roads because you don't know it.
[01:22:06] They haven't given you any training yet.
[01:22:08] So you're on dirt roads and there's people periodically to guide you along the way.
[01:22:12] And you have even have a flashlight.
[01:22:14] So it's nothing, you know, it's nothing crazy.
[01:22:17] It is just there to trim the fat and it does a good job at it.
[01:22:20] Because it'll tell whether or not you're there for the right reasons.
[01:22:24] That'll, that'll tell the cadre.
[01:22:26] But I'm coming down hill and whenever you have the opportunity, you know,
[01:22:30] you double time down hills just to make your time.
[01:22:33] And I roll an ankle and I roll it so bad that I hear a crack.
[01:22:37] And I knew it was the ankle, you know, the, the spraying cracking,
[01:22:41] but I felt bone in my shin too.
[01:22:44] Uh, and man, you know, it's the worst feeling.
[01:22:47] You know, when, for those of us who had spray, it's a, it's a horrible feeling.
[01:22:53] And the spray is worse than a break.
[01:22:55] I swear to God, it's worse than all right.
[01:22:57] There's no doubt about it.
[01:22:58] I've done so many of them.
[01:22:59] I've, I've torn so much shit in my body that, uh, man,
[01:23:04] I'd rather be broken than torn.
[01:23:07] Well, if the big difference is when you break a bone,
[01:23:10] you put it, you put it back together, you put a cast on it.
[01:23:12] It heals up.
[01:23:13] It's actually strong better than it was.
[01:23:15] But you terror ligament, the thing is never the same ever.
[01:23:18] Yep.
[01:23:19] If it even heals.
[01:23:20] Yep.
[01:23:21] So you hammer the shit out of your ankle.
[01:23:23] Yeah.
[01:23:24] And I, and I make it through this first movement.
[01:23:26] And I think just, I just make the time.
[01:23:29] I don't know what the time is.
[01:23:31] Uh, and then I end up walking on it for another week and a half.
[01:23:35] I'm going over these mountains in West Virginia.
[01:23:38] Uh, but there came a point where I, where I say, you know what?
[01:23:41] This is a big boys game.
[01:23:42] And they know I'm hurt because I went to see a doctor next day.
[01:23:45] And my ankles, you know, like a football.
[01:23:47] And they gave me some whatever.
[01:23:49] Some Ranger candy, some cam of Muffered Asperger or something like that.
[01:23:54] Uh, and they gave me an ace wrap.
[01:23:56] Uh, that's it.
[01:23:57] But they knew I'm jacked up.
[01:23:59] And I thought, you know what?
[01:24:00] These guys, they, they're going to think I'm retarded.
[01:24:03] They're going to think I'm stupid.
[01:24:05] Then I'm, you know, that I'm.
[01:24:06] So, uh, I, I made it.
[01:24:09] I made it.
[01:24:09] I wasn't, I was making no ground.
[01:24:11] I was getting weaker by the day.
[01:24:13] So I sat by a dirt road, waited for a casual call to come.
[01:24:16] And I said, hey, I am, I am voluntary.
[01:24:19] Von, I am withdrawing voluntarily.
[01:24:21] It was a hard pill of swallow, but the thing is, I had to do that.
[01:24:25] Uh, and the guy said, hey, as long as you're not cheating yourself.
[01:24:29] I said, nope.
[01:24:31] I am not.
[01:24:32] And they invited me to come back.
[01:24:34] Well, because they knew that I was jacked up.
[01:24:36] If I volunteer, if I wasn't jacked up, there was no way.
[01:24:39] You quit something like that. There was no way.
[01:24:41] But they knew that I was jacked up, because I went.
[01:24:43] I actually went and saw the, the dock.
[01:24:45] And I said, hey, can you give me something for this?
[01:24:47] And he was like, what, what if you, whatever you just don't make the times,
[01:24:52] would there said, are you failed, you're out?
[01:24:54] Well, I was one of those two is, uh, I didn't get to that point yet.
[01:24:58] I didn't get to the stress phase of this course, you know.
[01:25:01] So it was just all the training, the training, uh,
[01:25:04] uh, but the, uh, I forget what it's called, but it's like the training,
[01:25:10] yeah, the training phase, okay.
[01:25:12] It wasn't the graded portion yet.
[01:25:14] So there was no, there was no maximum time.
[01:25:17] Right.
[01:25:18] We could take in whatever hour.
[01:25:19] But I felt that I was getting weaker and weaker every day.
[01:25:22] Um, so yeah, they invited me to come back.
[01:25:26] And I took everybody, if you hear what I did to is,
[01:25:29] I made a huge gamble.
[01:25:31] I was in Germany, and I volunteered to go to Swick, special warfare center,
[01:25:36] and to be an instructor for your commitment.
[01:25:40] I volunteered to go to that, to get me to Fort Bragg, to get me closer.
[01:25:45] Uh-huh.
[01:25:46] And did you also figure like if I'm there, and I'm all I'm doing is teaching,
[01:25:49] I can get in good shape for a couple of times.
[01:25:50] Right.
[01:25:51] Yeah.
[01:25:52] Yeah.
[01:25:52] But if, if I didn't make selection, I would have been stuck in Swick for four years.
[01:25:56] So I knew it was a gamble, but I said,
[01:25:58] it's going to get me there, and it's going to get me strong.
[01:26:02] I'm not going to have to go anywhere.
[01:26:04] I'm not going to, you know, like, yeah, it's a very light duty.
[01:26:09] And I worked out like a man possess.
[01:26:12] I took it.
[01:26:13] I had a new, kind of a, a perspective and, um,
[01:26:18] a new strategy with the training.
[01:26:20] I went very low impact.
[01:26:23] So I did a lot of bicycling, like in a, in the tiny,
[01:26:26] sprocket, a lot of stair climbing, stuff like that.
[01:26:29] A lot of, like, 40 repetition squats.
[01:26:32] And that kind of thing.
[01:26:34] Because I already had a taste of it now.
[01:26:35] When you were worried about, like, being able to hump though?
[01:26:38] Yeah.
[01:26:38] Yeah. Well, I did that.
[01:26:39] I helped.
[01:26:40] But I didn't do a lot of it.
[01:26:41] I didn't do a lot of, uh, breakdown.
[01:26:43] What I did is I found a, um,
[01:26:46] I had, there was this massive helopad on Fort Bragg right by where I was working.
[01:26:50] So it's elevated chunk of ground.
[01:26:52] And it's elevated, you know, on all sides at an angle.
[01:26:55] And, um, I would do laps around that.
[01:26:59] Because now I'm walking on a, on a traverse on an angle.
[01:27:03] So I got all that friction, you know, and working my angles.
[01:27:06] And I would do lap, and it was probably 400 yards around.
[01:27:09] And I would, every day I'd go over there.
[01:27:11] And I would do lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap after lap.
[01:27:16] And turn around, do the same thing.
[01:27:18] And to my feet, burnt because I wanted strong angles.
[01:27:20] And I wanted, uh, tough, tough feet.
[01:27:23] Because I already had some blisters when I went the first time.
[01:27:26] That second time, I didn't have a fucking blister.
[01:27:29] I had a hot spot on the last exercise.
[01:27:31] I had one hot spot.
[01:27:33] Yeah, but I crushed it.
[01:27:35] I crushed it next time.
[01:27:36] I mean, I, I destroyed it.
[01:27:38] I mean, I had some bad days, but when I went back,
[01:27:41] man, I, I, I, I figured I really, I tore into it.
[01:27:45] So what year is, what year is this now that you, you go back and you made it?
[01:27:48] 90 won.
[01:27:49] 92 when I went back through.
[01:27:52] Yeah, 92.
[01:27:53] So, so I'm thinking golf war.
[01:27:57] You got to go for it.
[01:27:58] You just finished.
[01:27:59] I was still doing, uh, the Soviet stuff when people were doing the golf war.
[01:28:03] Yeah.
[01:28:04] Was that driving you crazy?
[01:28:05] Nah, because I was doing stuff.
[01:28:07] Yeah.
[01:28:08] Yeah.
[01:28:09] I was working, you know, and yeah.
[01:28:10] I was happy.
[01:28:12] I was in boot camp, or I was just after boot camp during the first golf war.
[01:28:16] Yep.
[01:28:17] And they, uh, I remember watching the news and they said they were expecting US 40,000 casualties in the first 48 hours.
[01:28:22] It was just like that.
[01:28:23] And I was like, oh, it's so hot.
[01:28:25] It's so hot.
[01:28:26] It's good to be so hot.
[01:28:28] Yeah.
[01:28:29] I'm going to get fast tracked.
[01:28:30] You're going to put me in the right freaking door gun or like, no.
[01:28:33] You're going to put me in the right freaking door gun or like, no.
[01:28:36] You're going to, you know, you're going to need people to replace.
[01:28:39] Man, that's what's going to happen.
[01:28:41] Yeah.
[01:28:42] So you get done.
[01:28:43] And so now you're, uh, you're there and everything's kind of leveled up.
[01:28:46] You're training freaking just like all the time.
[01:28:49] Yeah.
[01:28:50] Well, you know, uh, after selection, I had to go through six months of OTC.
[01:28:53] And you're on the bubble during that time.
[01:28:55] I mean, that's six months.
[01:28:56] And there's no break in that six months.
[01:28:58] I mean, and you're on the freaking bubble bro.
[01:29:01] Man, I love that the way they reserved the right to fire your stinking ass at any freaking second for anything.
[01:29:07] And that went my whole, I was, I was at the uniform 13 years.
[01:29:11] And I mean, there were stellar dudes, you know, 10 years in who,
[01:29:15] that little mistake boom.
[01:29:17] But, but you want to work in a place like that.
[01:29:20] You know, you want to, you want to be a part of that where, dude.
[01:29:24] And I remember there were guys who were great dudes who had had, like,
[01:29:28] I, I had this one friend who had an ND.
[01:29:31] Ooh.
[01:29:33] He was by himself.
[01:29:35] And he went and turned himself in.
[01:29:37] I was like, oh, holy shit.
[01:29:40] And was that it? He's gone.
[01:29:42] Yeah.
[01:29:43] And with NDs, there were certain things that you were,
[01:29:47] they'd send you back in for a year.
[01:29:49] And you were able to get a relook.
[01:29:51] Certain ND.
[01:29:52] Uh, negligent discharge.
[01:29:54] Okay, yep, yep.
[01:29:55] Yeah.
[01:29:56] Oops.
[01:29:57] Yeah.
[01:29:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:29:59] And they didn't happen often, but when you're constantly around guns,
[01:30:02] you're constantly doing shit.
[01:30:04] All you need is a momentary lapse of reason.
[01:30:06] And that's it.
[01:30:07] We are human beings.
[01:30:08] We are capable of momentary lapse of reason.
[01:30:10] And they happen to the best dudes I knew, man.
[01:30:15] The best dudes I knew.
[01:30:16] So you AD, ND, same thing.
[01:30:19] This is just a thing.
[01:30:20] Yeah, they just changed the for a bitch.
[01:30:21] Like, I don't know, but decade and a half ago.
[01:30:24] Yeah, so there are no accidents.
[01:30:26] It's negligent.
[01:30:27] I don't know. There's something.
[01:30:28] There's something to come from.
[01:30:29] I never thought I never thought about that fact.
[01:30:31] Yeah, yeah.
[01:30:32] Yeah.
[01:30:32] Yeah.
[01:30:33] Because I, I, I've been on the range enough for I've seen,
[01:30:36] where I know that shit actually does happen.
[01:30:39] I mean, I've got some great stories that are actual ADs.
[01:30:42] Yeah.
[01:30:43] Yeah.
[01:30:44] Yeah.
[01:30:44] Like around cooking off.
[01:30:45] Not like a, like a guy dropping his backpack.
[01:30:50] And he's got like a ALS holster on key.
[01:30:53] Car key goes into the holster and full comes up.
[01:30:56] Boom.
[01:30:57] Is he dropping his backpack?
[01:30:58] Burgers.
[01:30:59] You know, shit like that.
[01:31:00] I've seen a bunch of things like that.
[01:31:02] I've seen guys with like in the summertime out in the desert.
[01:31:05] Oh, good enough.
[01:31:06] Yeah.
[01:31:06] And they're like, like I remember, we were new guys.
[01:31:08] And one of the guys with me, he shoot and all of a sudden,
[01:31:11] you know, he's kind of, uh, we're done.
[01:31:13] We're kind of debriefing all of a sudden.
[01:31:14] Krak.
[01:31:15] Oh, he literally, they held up his weapon.
[01:31:17] He was like, I don't know.
[01:31:18] He got into it.
[01:31:19] It's on safe.
[01:31:20] He's like, there was, there was another funny story.
[01:31:23] What Jason Gardner told me this story.
[01:31:25] They're debriefing.
[01:31:27] And this guy, they're sitting there debriefing the new
[01:31:29] Kellhouse stuff.
[01:31:30] They're debriefing.
[01:31:31] And all of a sudden, like, did the junior officer
[01:31:33] cracks off around at the feet of like the debrief group.
[01:31:36] And he said he like looked at the gun and he looks at the
[01:31:41] group and he goes, he was decocking it.
[01:31:44] He had like an out of body experience and he explained
[01:31:50] himself in the third person.
[01:31:51] He's like the funniest thing that he was, I got to have
[01:31:55] Jason Gardner because my buddy Jason, he was
[01:31:57] Master Chief and he's been on the podcast a couple times.
[01:32:00] But he always tells everything in like a monotone voice.
[01:32:03] So he goes, yeah.
[01:32:04] So he cracks off around right at the feet of our of our group.
[01:32:08] And then he shakingly looks at everyone and says he was
[01:32:11] decocking it.
[01:32:12] Oh, my god.
[01:32:17] Kill me.
[01:32:20] So as you're doing this, one of their skills are you now picking up.
[01:32:27] I mean, you aren't it's the end.
[01:32:29] I got to figure out a place where there's money and
[01:32:32] there's time and there's a mission.
[01:32:36] Let me think about first up more driving.
[01:32:39] I mean, I've been through seven driving courses.
[01:32:42] One of them was the Gary Semic Motorcross.
[01:32:45] Well, we had dirt bikes, you know, and it's a great
[01:32:49] mobility device, but you need training on that thing.
[01:32:52] So when I was a team sergeant at a mobility team, I said, I want
[01:32:56] the best training.
[01:32:57] I want to motor cross, you know, super cross school.
[01:33:00] But so driving training.
[01:33:04] I mean, more water stuff, water water.
[01:33:08] So riverine stuff.
[01:33:11] You know, it was cool.
[01:33:13] I just thought about that.
[01:33:14] They, the dunk training like Epic Marl.
[01:33:16] Yeah, rotten thing.
[01:33:17] Yeah, yeah, I did that.
[01:33:19] But schools, let me think.
[01:33:21] Yeah, he dunker.
[01:33:22] Yeah, yeah.
[01:33:24] Oh, my god, they're so freaking much.
[01:33:27] Oh, so the demo was the big thing when you, you know,
[01:33:29] but special, specializing in that.
[01:33:32] I mean, were you like a breacher?
[01:33:34] Yeah, but everybody is a breacher at some point.
[01:33:36] You know, when you're an operator, you're all, you're a
[01:33:38] breacher at some point.
[01:33:39] You know, you come onto a team as a assistant, then you work
[01:33:42] up to a breacher.
[01:33:44] But then the amount of weapons, too, you know, so not just
[01:33:47] cruiser stuff, but like an tank and, you know, it's a
[01:33:51] holy crap because there's always something new emerging.
[01:33:54] Yeah.
[01:33:55] Yeah.
[01:34:00] You can't just lug around a goof off, you know?
[01:34:03] All the time, because more stuff is emerging.
[01:34:06] What are the kind of tricks?
[01:34:08] It just went on and on and on.
[01:34:11] I mean, it never, the wheels on the bus went round and
[01:34:12] freaking round.
[01:34:13] And the amount of heel of stuff that we did, you know,
[01:34:16] and a lot of different environmental training.
[01:34:20] So, you know, when we did winter training, it was hard
[01:34:23] for winter training, when we did desert training, hard
[01:34:25] court desert, we did mountain, you know, all that stuff.
[01:34:28] And then, so a lot of environmental stuff.
[01:34:33] I mean, yeah, I wish I was tasked with a homework
[01:34:37] site prior to, so I could have written those things down
[01:34:40] because it's cool because it's cool because I, I
[01:34:43] forget about how much shit that I've learned.
[01:34:46] The amount of shit that I've forgotten could probably, you
[01:34:49] know, fill volumes.
[01:34:50] And then, you know, I've been doing things.
[01:34:54] But everyone's long ago.
[01:34:55] Oh, yeah.
[01:34:56] Like Rebecca and I watch a TV show.
[01:34:58] I go, yeah, I've done that.
[01:34:59] She goes, you have it.
[01:35:00] Yeah, I've done that.
[01:35:01] Yeah, I've done that.
[01:35:02] And you're shooting just all the time.
[01:35:05] Yeah, yeah, all the time.
[01:35:07] And then not only that, but what was cool is,
[01:35:09] we were encouraged to compete, you know,
[01:35:11] a national level with the shooting stuff.
[01:35:14] So, I'm not just talking action shooting like
[01:35:16] I'm shooting like Ipsick, but I also did national match, you know,
[01:35:20] like bulls, I stuff.
[01:35:21] Yeah, I competed in the all army,
[01:35:24] small-arms championship too in 2004 right before I retired.
[01:35:27] So I was at E9 and the unit sent me down there as a, like, a recruiting trip.
[01:35:31] And best competition I went to.
[01:35:35] Now, they did preface it with a, you know,
[01:35:37] you got to win this thing.
[01:35:39] Now, no freaking, I tell you,
[01:35:41] that was not easy to, I did, but one of these tasks.
[01:35:44] Because you got like 250 competitors.
[01:35:46] And you got these, the A&E, the army,
[01:35:48] the army, the army, the army, the army, the army,
[01:35:49] the army.
[01:35:50] The army, the army, the army, the army, the army, the army, the army, the army.
[01:35:52] Yeah, who do that.
[01:35:52] Right, that's the day they do their living.
[01:35:54] You got, um, Ranger Snipers, 82nd Snipers,
[01:35:56] because when you show up to that type of competition,
[01:36:00] you all look the same, every same haircut, same uniform,
[01:36:03] same M16, A2, iron sights, same side arm, same ammo.
[01:36:08] Yeah, same ammo, everything's the same.
[01:36:10] It's like stock car racing.
[01:36:12] Exactly.
[01:36:13] I think I'm just like that.
[01:36:15] So no mechanical advantage with anything.
[01:36:17] Nothing.
[01:36:19] And then you start this week long competition.
[01:36:21] In the first several days, it's all national match rifle
[01:36:24] at 500 yards iron sights.
[01:36:27] Grand U-Shoot, you know, 77 grain Sierra match black hills.
[01:36:30] You shoot good ammo.
[01:36:32] So you're really able to group with these rifles.
[01:36:37] But after the rifle portion, I was sitting good.
[01:36:43] I was like out of 250 people.
[01:36:45] I was probably like 225.
[01:36:47] But when the pistol portion came up, I crushed everybody.
[01:36:50] So it was because thankfully it was a combined aggregate.
[01:36:52] So I was able to, yeah, I was able to, who I did not want to go back to you and say,
[01:36:58] yeah, I came in third or something like that.
[01:37:01] You know, I've got beat by a E4 from division.
[01:37:05] Where were you when September 11th kicked off?
[01:37:09] So I was at that time, I was a OTC instructor.
[01:37:12] So operator trainer course instructor.
[01:37:14] I was on the range teaching OTC students, CQB.
[01:37:20] One guy had a piece of equipment go it out.
[01:37:23] I said, I'll go get it.
[01:37:24] I'll go get it for you.
[01:37:25] Just give me that and I'll go de-exit for you.
[01:37:27] So I drive back down to the main buildings, go in and the,
[01:37:33] that's for the guy from supply is watching the TV and one of the planes that already hit.
[01:37:39] And I said, what happened there?
[01:37:40] He goes, ah, some plane hit one of the trade, one of the world trade center towers.
[01:37:45] And I go, oh, two.
[01:37:46] Was it actually?
[01:37:47] He goes, oh, it looks like it's me.
[01:37:48] Because at the time that's where it was.
[01:37:50] And plus people, you couldn't grasp the gravity of how big those buildings are.
[01:37:56] You know, they thought it was a sessinath.
[01:37:57] I completely thought it was a sessinath.
[01:37:59] Yeah.
[01:38:00] That's how it would be.
[01:38:01] Those buildings are gigantic.
[01:38:03] So we're both watching it and then I saw live the second one go in.
[01:38:07] And we both just dude, when you, when you watch that shit,
[01:38:10] like happened, I didn't see it on the news as a repeat.
[01:38:13] I watched it live and I heard the news, the announcer go, oh, oh boy, oh, oh, oh.
[01:38:20] All right, nope, this is no accident.
[01:38:23] You know, now I'm a holy fuck.
[01:38:25] So I got this piece of kit, boogie down range.
[01:38:28] And we did an admin halt brought everybody back into the childhood.
[01:38:32] Big TVs on.
[01:38:33] So they get kind of an update and then brought them back to the shoothouse around C.
[01:38:37] K. B.
[01:38:39] Yeah.
[01:38:40] How long did it take from there before you got over to?
[01:38:43] It's me, it, it, oh man, I was so bummed out.
[01:38:46] It was you were, it was an instructor, not only that, but they asked me to do another
[01:38:50] six months on top of my two-year stay.
[01:38:53] Because there was a course that they were putting together for somebody else.
[01:38:59] And they want to meet and build this course.
[01:39:01] And I'm going, oh my god, squatters are already on their second to poorly bro.
[01:39:07] And this is the crazy thing.
[01:39:08] That's a good thing.
[01:39:09] That's a good thing.
[01:39:10] It's funny because when I get over there, I remember the first night, I'm with this
[01:39:16] dude, I put through selection and OTC.
[01:39:19] He's a staff sergeant.
[01:39:21] And I'm an E9.
[01:39:22] And he goes, oh, man, it's so cool that I'm doing hits with you here.
[01:39:25] I said, yeah bro, it's not your charge of me.
[01:39:27] He goes, huh?
[01:39:28] I said, how many hits you got in cud you?
[01:39:29] It was 125.
[01:39:30] I said, well, I got zero bro.
[01:39:33] Yeah.
[01:39:34] Goosec.
[01:39:35] So when you went over, you went over, you were telling me earlier, like you went over
[01:39:38] as like an ops position or something?
[01:39:40] Yeah, initially I went over as an ops position with the, it's a funny thing.
[01:39:48] We didn't even touch on this one.
[01:39:50] I went over to work with the units support support squadrons.
[01:39:58] So I was working with all, these guys would know training.
[01:40:02] And they're going outside of the green zone and all that to get re-supplied to get
[01:40:05] you could go in there, they're making buy-app runs to get diesel, you know, going down
[01:40:10] right.
[01:40:11] Yeah, bro, it's off skin homers, you know, because we were nothing was up on.
[01:40:15] And so I'm driving with them, scared, scared us.
[01:40:17] I've been in my life, going with cooks to get freaking food.
[01:40:20] I'm one man security detail.
[01:40:22] I got comms, ARP, M4, mags, and I'm out there flopping.
[01:40:29] I'm one man security detail for dudes who have zero training.
[01:40:34] They got guns and stuff too.
[01:40:35] But I know that, that, that, that, that stay scared these shit out of me.
[01:40:44] The amount of freaking rounds that the support guys were taking and I'm going, go, go,
[01:40:50] you know, because we, mobility survived building.
[01:40:53] I'm like dudes, first lesson, it's hardest shoot in moving target.
[01:40:57] You were not doing these other, we're not driving 15 miles an hour.
[01:41:00] Fuck that.
[01:41:01] As fast as this is if you could go, change lanes on the bridges, you know, that kind of stuff.
[01:41:05] All that old school shit.
[01:41:07] I mean, yeah, that scared to hell out of me.
[01:41:12] And then I would do a couple of hits with the working squater.
[01:41:16] But when I got back and between those, I built a course called CSE, come at skills
[01:41:22] course.
[01:41:23] It's a two-week course for all of support elements.
[01:41:26] And it was, they loved it, first.
[01:41:28] They freaking loved it.
[01:41:29] They were, because you start to be our basic rifle marksmanship, you know, and then movement
[01:41:34] with a rifle.
[01:41:35] And then security positions, working barricades, driving.
[01:41:40] And then, you know, react to freaking IEDs, you know, all this stuff.
[01:41:45] So, reaction contact, move to from all that stuff.
[01:41:49] So we did all, just two weeks of non-stop, balsh and a wall, basic training, combat skills
[01:41:59] training.
[01:42:00] And the fulfillment I got out of that was ridiculous.
[01:42:03] I loved doing that so much.
[01:42:06] Because the job is hard, it's freaking sucked.
[01:42:09] But, you know, these cooks and law guys, you know, seeing them freaking rip rounds and shoot
[01:42:15] AT-4s and stuff.
[01:42:17] And then when I go back to Iraq, walking around, we got a hit, it's kind of vanilla.
[01:42:22] But, the cool thing was, too, when no matter how vanilla the freaking hit was, guys were
[01:42:29] treating it as if it were, you know, HVT, you know, high value target.
[01:42:35] I was like, hell yeah.
[01:42:36] But, there was a couple vanilla hits where I'd go and get my cooks.
[01:42:40] And say, hey, you guys want to come out of hit me.
[01:42:43] They were like, really?
[01:42:44] I see, yeah, man.
[01:42:45] And I put them on, you know, security position with a, with a, with a saw or a mag 58.
[01:42:51] But dude, they're in fucking combat bro.
[01:42:53] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:42:54] One of the cooks even got to freaking, wow, you ready to get, I got to let it rip.
[01:42:59] I had, I had my radio man, my radio man from my tactical operations center, right?
[01:43:04] And he was the guy that kind of ran things.
[01:43:06] And one night, we were going on an office, pretty close to base, you know, kind of a no
[01:43:10] brainer.
[01:43:12] And I needed it.
[01:43:13] But we had a bunch of people to coordinate with.
[01:43:14] And I said, hey, man, you know, can you come out with me tonight and, and, you know, just
[01:43:19] man, the radio.
[01:43:20] And he gets the big eyes.
[01:43:22] Because you know, hey, let's face it.
[01:43:24] I mean, even though I'm saying it's no big deal, man, there was guys getting wounded.
[01:43:27] He'll never say it today.
[01:43:28] So, even though I thought it was no big deal, his eyes got real big and he's like,
[01:43:33] yes, sir.
[01:43:34] And so we get out and we did, by this point, this was a six, we had armored, armored
[01:43:39] home v's and we get on target and, you know, I'm out, we got multiple targets going down
[01:43:45] and I'm the GFC.
[01:43:46] So I'm kind of conducting and seeing what's going on and I walk over to, he's in the
[01:43:51] hummer.
[01:43:52] And I go over and I kind of like crack the door open.
[01:43:54] I was like, hey, man, you want to come out and, you know, like, you know, I'll show
[01:43:57] you what's up what's going on.
[01:43:58] And he's like, I'm good to go right here.
[01:44:03] I was like, I like the sights and sounds.
[01:44:04] I don't know.
[01:44:05] I was like, hey, it's all good, man.
[01:44:07] You just chill.
[01:44:08] But I mean, he was a great guy.
[01:44:09] He did all kinds of good work for me, but, you know, we do that with the support people
[01:44:14] because they just, they don't get good training.
[01:44:18] And so they're normally not super comfortable.
[01:44:22] Yeah, rolling out.
[01:44:23] I had a CD too.
[01:44:25] Who is this giant black dude, awesome guy named Biggie?
[01:44:32] Yeah, Biggie.
[01:44:34] He was, he was awesome, but we took him on a couple where we had work to do.
[01:44:37] We had work for the CBS to do it.
[01:44:39] Some locations.
[01:44:40] And man, you know, see, he, he, he, he, he, he turned for Biggie.
[01:44:44] Just a big eyes man.
[01:44:45] Right.
[01:44:46] He was awesome.
[01:44:47] And one time we got hit.
[01:44:48] We got hit with, we got hit with mortars in the camp and they blew up our big water tank.
[01:44:56] And so he was just, you know, he was a, a CB, which CBs are known for, you know, acquiring
[01:45:01] things.
[01:45:02] So he went out in the next few hours and acquired a brand new like giant water tank.
[01:45:07] We're talking, you know, I don't know how many, but as big as this, right, that we're
[01:45:10] sitting, a giant, he brings back another one on a crane and Peter's skin.
[01:45:15] He's like green for a, he's getting it all filled up with water.
[01:45:18] And, you know, I said, hey, man, hey, I go, hey, chief, that's awesome.
[01:45:23] And really appreciate it.
[01:45:25] Appreciate, you know, taking care of us.
[01:45:26] He goes, man, I'll do whatever I got to do to help you guys as long as they're
[01:45:30] right, no more boom boom in the camp.
[01:45:32] Yes.
[01:45:33] Yes.
[01:45:34] By the way, big, I saw big, warming up with three, 15 on bench, warming up.
[01:45:45] 10 reps.
[01:45:46] Yes, that's what you were playing around.
[01:45:48] Yeah.
[01:45:49] Yeah.
[01:45:50] And so, so the second time when you went back and you guys are doing these hits.
[01:45:55] So now what year is that?
[01:45:56] Oh, fine.
[01:45:57] Yeah, so things are great.
[01:45:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:46:00] Things, things escalated a lot between 04 and 05.
[01:46:03] Yep.
[01:46:04] Yep.
[01:46:05] I guess somewhere of 04 starting to get normally.
[01:46:07] Right.
[01:46:08] 05.
[01:46:09] And, or you guys are, you guys are going out hitting targets reload.
[01:46:14] I mean, yeah, a lot of times like re-cock right there on the spot.
[01:46:18] And so, battlefield interrogation, all right, this guy knows.
[01:46:21] So, and so, let's go freaking split the force and go check these dudes out.
[01:46:26] And then bam, police them up.
[01:46:29] A lot of cool black police work.
[01:46:32] You know, snatch and do, I tell people, like people who don't know.
[01:46:40] You know, when you're trained and when you're living that kind of unit,
[01:46:43] kill and a dude isn't very hard.
[01:46:45] Snatching up a dude requires a lot of freaking work.
[01:46:49] You know, especially, like, let's say plausible deniability or no trace, that kind of thing.
[01:46:54] So, I love that kind of stuff.
[01:46:56] That was, to me, that was a lot of fun.
[01:46:58] It was interesting, you know, snatch and doots up out of their beds and crap like that.
[01:47:02] But it was, um, the uptempo was really high.
[01:47:07] And what I appreciated was being basically like a cherry.
[01:47:12] You know, I was a private in I.
[01:47:14] Yeah.
[01:47:15] And, oh, that's probably the only place in the world in the military where you have the opportunity to do that.
[01:47:20] Being an E9 door kicker.
[01:47:22] I mean, I had this one night because it was like, by third night going into, um,
[01:47:28] Felicia on my own little bird.
[01:47:30] And I was following an anteem and, um, we're, you know, landing rooftops.
[01:47:36] And the third night in a row, they had me on the planning board as task force man.
[01:47:42] It was killing me.
[01:47:44] What the, you know what they were doing.
[01:47:45] They were, they were giving me an opportunity to make up ground because they had been getting some.
[01:47:49] And I'd been left freaking back.
[01:47:53] So they were like, yeah, we're going to, you know, we're going to, we're going to, yeah.
[01:47:57] Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was cool to shit.
[01:48:01] But seeing all the level at which dudes operated, seeing that,
[01:48:07] because I was almost from like an outside perspective, you know, looking around, going holy fuck man.
[01:48:12] This is pro.
[01:48:13] This is badass.
[01:48:15] Well, I think the whole US military obviously, I mean, this goes without saying.
[01:48:21] But they did just a, the experience.
[01:48:25] I mean, I always tell people that are always a little bit surprised, but, you know,
[01:48:29] I didn't shoot my weapon at the enemy for 13 years, right?
[01:48:33] In the, in the sea, until 13 years of, and I think I locked my locked and loaded my weapon prior to that,
[01:48:39] like, three times all on a stupid, like, I was kind of fired up because we were doing security for something.
[01:48:44] And I got to lock the weapon and I was kind of pumped.
[01:48:46] Yeah, yeah.
[01:48:47] But then, but it wasn't until 13 years, but the amount of combat that we have had now in the US military,
[01:48:55] repetition after repetition after repetition.
[01:48:58] And one thing I noticed is like, well, on my first appointment, which was O3,
[01:49:02] we, you know, we were good at doing, you know, building take downs and we, we,
[01:49:07] do room clearance.
[01:49:08] And we, we were, we were good at it.
[01:49:10] By the time I went back in O6, man, everybody was, everyone could, you know, everyone could just,
[01:49:15] there was no factor.
[01:49:16] It was like, hey, all you want to take down was building cool.
[01:49:18] We got this.
[01:49:19] It was, it had brought everybody up to a much better level.
[01:49:23] And I always, I think about this now all the time, just the experience that we have.
[01:49:27] Now, you know, a mission that would have seemed like a huge deal in 1996.
[01:49:34] Right.
[01:49:35] You wouldn't even know.
[01:49:36] It wouldn't even crack the bump on the radar.
[01:49:38] Like that was cool.
[01:49:40] Right.
[01:49:41] Right.
[01:49:42] Yeah.
[01:49:43] That even close.
[01:49:44] Yeah.
[01:49:45] Yeah.
[01:49:46] It was, you know, the amount of experience that we've gained.
[01:49:47] And, and, you know, even when I watch new platoons come in to relieve us.
[01:49:53] And like occasionally I'd be in that spot, like looking at my task unit,
[01:49:58] looking at one of my platoons moving down the street.
[01:50:01] And you just see and you go, man, these guys are so good.
[01:50:04] I mean, everybody's moving. It's like weapons trained everywhere.
[01:50:08] Yeah.
[01:50:08] It's so efficient.
[01:50:10] And you see like a new troop coming in and you look at them and you go,
[01:50:13] Oh, they'll clean it up.
[01:50:14] They'll clean it up.
[01:50:15] Yeah.
[01:50:15] They'll clean it up.
[01:50:16] Because you can tell that by as demeanor, you know, by as just the body language alone.
[01:50:20] You know, you, you, you just, the silhouette, you know, who that guy is for sure.
[01:50:24] Oh, for sure.
[01:50:25] Yeah.
[01:50:25] For sure.
[01:50:26] When you, so now it's, you do, you knock out a couple deployments.
[01:50:32] What, what makes you decide to get out?
[01:50:37] What makes you decide to retire?
[01:50:39] I had a, some of it was, and I don't mind talking about this because it's good lesson learned shit.
[01:50:44] A lot of it was because of domestic messiness.
[01:50:47] I had little kids at home and they had a, they weren't being brought up right.
[01:50:54] I needed to be there for them.
[01:50:56] I had already, you, you start to think,
[01:51:00] you know, when you, when you lose buddies that are close to you, you start to, you know, reflect.
[01:51:07] And you, and you, and you, you start to be very objective and you exercise introspection and you go dude man, if that's me.
[01:51:15] I don't really care, you know, I'm just some dude, but I'm going to leave my kids dry because they don't have the other, they're other half.
[01:51:25] You know, they're, they're mom at the time. Really sucked.
[01:51:30] So I got out because I had little kids and they needed, they needed me because they didn't have the other half of that.
[01:51:38] And they, they have sucked bad.
[01:51:41] And it was, it was a, because of,
[01:51:45] the problem stem from, it's big farm a shit, you know, prescription meds.
[01:51:50] So not a drug problem if it's, you know, prescription meds.
[01:51:53] They have free and big farm a bro, they, they have shit pisses me off.
[01:51:57] But so I watched the deterioration of a human being over, you know, a long time.
[01:52:02] Big farm I mentioned, she free and, just sucked.
[01:52:07] So, but I had to, I had to do it.
[01:52:10] And, you know, initially I thought this is a great idea, but man, it wasn't long before I ran it to just a feeling horrible about myself and missing the hell out of it.
[01:52:20] But what was the time span between you made the decision that you're going to retire and like when you retired?
[01:52:26] I've made the decision the first time I pushed to Iraq as an, I'm at the 22 year mark because I was e9.
[01:52:38] I needed to stay in grade for three years and complete the academy to keep e9 on my retire and retire and retire and I decarbed kind of thing.
[01:52:49] So I wanted to make sure that I retired with that stuff.
[01:52:53] So, yeah, I made that decision, got the academy right before I retired.
[01:52:58] I think I did the academy and retired two days later.
[01:53:02] And then you retire, what was your plan when you retired?
[01:53:07] I had no plan there you go.
[01:53:09] Zero.
[01:53:10] Check.
[01:53:11] But I got a fire job offers like, yeah, I got hired prior to retiring.
[01:53:16] There you go.
[01:53:17] A couple months to that becomes the plan.
[01:53:19] Yep.
[01:53:20] And the thing is that's a little hanging fruit.
[01:53:22] I don't recommend that to people.
[01:53:24] That little hanging fruit shit man, you know working for the man.
[01:53:28] Fuck that.
[01:53:29] And this is a five, you know, five.
[01:53:31] So contracting is still.
[01:53:33] Oh yeah.
[01:53:34] Good money.
[01:53:35] Yep.
[01:53:35] This is before the market was when I returned to another shit hole.
[01:53:38] Yep.
[01:53:39] The reason I got out was to be there for my kids.
[01:53:41] So I didn't want to, you know,
[01:53:43] make a shit ton of money and deploy again for 30, 30 days without the big green machine at my six.
[01:53:51] For sure.
[01:53:52] Uh, because now I lost some buddies doing contracting stuff too.
[01:53:56] Uh, and it was just kill me bro.
[01:53:58] It was kill me.
[01:53:59] Oh my god.
[01:54:00] So it was the job that you go.
[01:54:01] So it was basically, um, doing what I'm doing now is,
[01:54:06] but for a corporation, I was doing the instruction thing and I was building,
[01:54:10] this unit called the AWG.
[01:54:14] Mm-hmm.
[01:54:15] A symmetrical warfare group.
[01:54:17] Yep.
[01:54:18] Yeah.
[01:54:18] I was building that.
[01:54:19] You sent some people over to me in Ramadi.
[01:54:21] Yeah.
[01:54:22] I was trying to land up and I was trying, the other thing I was doing was,
[01:54:25] I built a course called Kat Sea Combat Application Training Course.
[01:54:28] And we were training big army.
[01:54:30] Um, I recruited a couple other guys,
[01:54:33] couple guys like me retired unit guys.
[01:54:35] And we were training big army.
[01:54:38] It five day course.
[01:54:40] And I loved when we first started it,
[01:54:42] we were doing training first brigade,
[01:54:44] 82nd Airborne Division.
[01:54:46] Fourth brigade, fourth brigade.
[01:54:47] Fourth brigade was fit for a little while.
[01:54:49] And I loved that these guys were so badass.
[01:54:51] You know that there were E4s with two deployments.
[01:54:54] And we combat wounds.
[01:54:56] Yeah.
[01:54:57] By the way, two deployments that were 13 months.
[01:54:59] Yeah.
[01:55:00] I thought he'd been watching.
[01:55:01] Yeah.
[01:55:02] Uh, and they were so badass and their soldier skills were, you know,
[01:55:06] so far surpassed then what I had seen in like the 90s or certain.
[01:55:12] Um, so that was what's again very fulfilling.
[01:55:16] You know, run in these guys,
[01:55:18] hard getting them really good training
[01:55:20] and making them focus on the fundamental fundamentals,
[01:55:24] fundamentals being expert at the basics.
[01:55:27] You know, that was, that's still as my thing.
[01:55:29] But that was our thing where we were training the Kat Sea Program.
[01:55:33] And we were going to be expert on the basics and fundamentals.
[01:55:36] Um, so that was fun.
[01:55:37] I did that for a few years.
[01:55:39] And then I got, um,
[01:55:41] I got laid off.
[01:55:43] What the fuck is that me?
[01:55:45] You know what?
[01:55:46] You have no, when you're career military guy.
[01:55:48] And then you're working for, you know,
[01:55:50] a company that does government contract and shit in his entire military.
[01:55:53] You're not even thinking job security.
[01:55:55] That's not even, that's not a party or thought process.
[01:55:59] You don't go bad at night and say,
[01:56:00] Oh, hope it will get fired tomorrow. If you don't think that, you don't think it.
[01:56:04] So laid off things.
[01:56:06] And I didn't even see the rating on the wall.
[01:56:08] Because I'm dumb.
[01:56:09] I'm corporate America.
[01:56:10] I don't know any of that.
[01:56:11] Um, so the company got bought out.
[01:56:13] And they started to, uh,
[01:56:15] you know, cut corners, trying to fat,
[01:56:18] pitch pennies, all that stuff.
[01:56:20] And I was thinking, oh, yeah, we got to do it.
[01:56:22] You know, got to cut those corners, got to pitch those pennies.
[01:56:24] I wasn't thinking about me.
[01:56:25] And I cost money to that.
[01:56:27] And they laid me off with a phone call, man.
[01:56:30] Phone call.
[01:56:31] You know, not even face the face.
[01:56:33] And the feeling, because I was already down at that time.
[01:56:36] I was really bummed out.
[01:56:38] I was, um, I was in a dark, dark place.
[01:56:40] I was going through depression.
[01:56:41] I was freaking drinking on the job.
[01:56:43] I can not, on the range.
[01:56:45] But I would bring, like, a jacket coke to work in a kid.
[01:56:48] A big coke of coal about what stuff like that.
[01:56:50] I was hating life.
[01:56:51] I was miserable.
[01:56:52] And that's what you got your, your,
[01:56:54] uh, I guess she's your ex wife now.
[01:56:56] Yep.
[01:56:57] She's dragging things down.
[01:56:59] Yeah, no support whatsoever disconnected from your former teammates that you spent your entire life with.
[01:57:05] Yep.
[01:57:06] It has no concept about that stuff.
[01:57:08] Not only disconnected from that, but disconnected from reality because of, like, prescriptions,
[01:57:13] and stuff.
[01:57:14] So no connection between the Nora or receptors.
[01:57:16] Just dark space.
[01:57:17] Everyone's in a while targeted opportunity.
[01:57:19] You know, a moment of clarity.
[01:57:21] But it, that all that shit sucked bad.
[01:57:23] Then getting laid off, you know, on top of it was like, holy fucking then the, the other half.
[01:57:30] Say, no, I'll just get a job with another company.
[01:57:33] And I'm like, fuck that man.
[01:57:36] I want to do something else.
[01:57:38] So I call three guys who own companies.
[01:57:41] All good friends of mine.
[01:57:43] All ex-unic guys.
[01:57:44] And they also the same thing.
[01:57:46] Yep.
[01:57:47] I will get you back.
[01:57:48] I will get you work if you need it.
[01:57:49] But do it, man.
[01:57:50] Do it yourself.
[01:57:51] You can, you have the ability to do this.
[01:57:54] So they all gave me permission to be my own guy.
[01:57:59] Best thing that ever could happen.
[01:58:01] Because I was 10 years ago.
[01:58:02] And I generated my company T-max and it just freaking detonated.
[01:58:06] It went bashing.
[01:58:08] Yep.
[01:58:09] I mean, there's absolutely no business.
[01:58:11] You know, there's absolutely no business.
[01:58:12] There's absolutely no business.
[01:58:13] You know, like, you know, I ripped off my motor.
[01:58:16] I had to go through the sequestration 2013.
[01:58:19] I'll let Devices spending bullshit where I had all got to my contract
[01:58:22] stuff for the year.
[01:58:23] And that likes which went out of the menu.
[01:58:25] No money.
[01:58:26] None.
[01:58:27] At the same time, I'm going through divorce.
[01:58:30] You know, and do that was hard.
[01:58:33] That was hard.
[01:58:34] But that was good.
[01:58:35] It was freaking odd.
[01:58:36] It was so good.
[01:58:37] Those kind of lessons learned.
[01:58:38] You know, you really grow as a human being.
[01:58:41] Based on how you, how you come out of a bad situation like that.
[01:58:46] You know, how.
[01:58:47] How you, for me, it was making lemonade out of lemons.
[01:58:54] You know, and trying to rekindle my past, trying to remember who I was.
[01:58:59] What I'm here for, what my purpose is.
[01:59:02] And then I had to give myself meaning.
[01:59:04] You know, I needed to be.
[01:59:07] They're needed to be a reason for me to get up every freaking day.
[01:59:11] A new mission.
[01:59:12] Yeah, every day, new mission.
[01:59:14] Yep.
[01:59:15] Especially special.
[01:59:17] Not just military guys, but special.
[01:59:19] They need that purpose.
[01:59:21] They need that mission.
[01:59:23] So without meaning, without purpose.
[01:59:27] You, you, you could, you could fall through.
[01:59:29] You can, you can, you can, you could, you know, start slipping into dark places.
[01:59:33] And you were slipping there.
[01:59:34] Dude, I, I almost capitulated.
[01:59:36] I was close.
[01:59:37] I mean, I was dark.
[01:59:38] I was at the bottom.
[01:59:40] Bottom.
[01:59:41] And then I was at, you know, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was, it was last three years.
[01:59:44] I lived in the bonus room, I bought my garage for five years.
[01:59:47] I lived in the bonus room, I bought my garage.
[01:59:50] I wasn't a drunkard, but I was drinking all day.
[01:59:54] So nobody knew it.
[01:59:56] You know, that I was, that I was medicating.
[01:59:58] Nobody knew it because I would just all day long.
[02:00:00] All day long.
[02:00:01] How do you know, 11 o'clock in the morning?
[02:00:03] Start.
[02:00:04] Um, and I had no, I mean, I would go to work.
[02:00:09] I would get jobs.
[02:00:11] And I was fake in it. I was fake in the, you know, get you so.
[02:00:15] But I go, you know, I'm all that.
[02:00:17] I was just fake in the Mac show.
[02:00:18] Just fake in it.
[02:00:19] Nobody knew where I was.
[02:00:20] Nobody had any idea.
[02:00:22] Um, because I had no, I wasn't like hanging.
[02:00:25] I had no close friends or anything like that.
[02:00:27] My kids were my close friends.
[02:00:29] Uh, and they were my kind of, my sanctuary or my escape.
[02:00:33] You know, hanging out with them.
[02:00:35] Are you still working out?
[02:00:36] At that time, not very much.
[02:00:38] I mean, I'm getting by because everything that I did,
[02:00:42] my, my now ex thought it was because I was having an affair.
[02:00:46] You know, so there's no explanation for me working out other than wanting to fuck somebody.
[02:00:51] You know, there's no explanation.
[02:00:53] Everything that I did was because it's an affair.
[02:00:56] And I had in her mind, I mean, it was bad when people, when, you know,
[02:01:01] when I say, yeah, my ex is crazy.
[02:01:03] Oh, I know what you're talking about.
[02:01:05] Oh, yeah, yeah, I say no.
[02:01:06] Man, I'm not talking about your cut.
[02:01:08] I'm talking legit crazy.
[02:01:10] I had a girlfriend, imaginary girlfriend living in her closet for four years.
[02:01:15] Her name was skater.
[02:01:17] Damn.
[02:01:18] I would come home and the cops would be at my house.
[02:01:21] And she had taken all the light switch panels off.
[02:01:25] And showing the cops that there are blue washers because I'm bugging the house.
[02:01:28] You know, stuff like that.
[02:01:29] I would come home for Ford.
[02:01:31] I remember doing this one trip for a 24th STS, you know,
[02:01:34] CCT guys, bad ass dudes.
[02:01:36] Four days training hours wiped out, man.
[02:01:39] I was smoked and I was coming back from,
[02:01:42] it was up by,
[02:01:43] Moec.
[02:01:45] Yeah.
[02:01:46] Yep.
[02:01:47] So for me, it was like a five hour drive.
[02:01:48] And I am abacking my drive with the truck.
[02:01:51] And I'm looking to review of your mirror.
[02:01:52] And all my shit is in the driveway.
[02:01:54] It's all in the driver.
[02:01:55] And she's sitting on a stool.
[02:01:57] She's going through like my tackle box.
[02:01:59] You know, and all my tools.
[02:02:00] And it's all just everything.
[02:02:01] She's looking for clues or something.
[02:02:03] You know, that was, that was the,
[02:02:06] I remember that night.
[02:02:07] That was the start of broken cameras back.
[02:02:09] And she called the cops at night.
[02:02:11] Cops came and they said, hey, can you stay somewhere else?
[02:02:13] I go, yep.
[02:02:14] Absolutely.
[02:02:15] Because there's been a hotel that I've been going to.
[02:02:17] Mm-hmm.
[02:02:18] And it was just a mile down the road.
[02:02:20] Uh, next day, one of the cops calls, calls me.
[02:02:23] And he says, um,
[02:02:25] Can I talk to you?
[02:02:28] Uh,
[02:02:29] So I, I said, where yet, he said, I'm at your house.
[02:02:31] I drive there.
[02:02:32] He goes, hey, I ran into your wife in the village.
[02:02:34] She's freaking dope.
[02:02:35] I don't remind him.
[02:02:36] He said, brother.
[02:02:37] He knew, you know, who I was, where I came from.
[02:02:41] It's stuff like that.
[02:02:42] Very nice guy.
[02:02:43] He goes, you need to take radical steps.
[02:02:45] And you need to get the fuck out here.
[02:02:47] I know you're in it for the kids.
[02:02:48] Kids are resilient.
[02:02:52] They will, and they will be able to handle us.
[02:02:54] But you need to get the fuck out.
[02:02:56] And I was, uh, man, I was broke down.
[02:02:58] Because nobody at that until that,
[02:03:00] nobody at that, nobody at that,
[02:03:02] I, I, I, I felt that I was all alone in the world.
[02:03:05] That I was going through this shit, you know, that nobody had any idea.
[02:03:08] The cops had seen it, because they better than many times.
[02:03:10] But, um, that night, I get jacked up again.
[02:03:14] Uh, and I'm with my sweet son, uh,
[02:03:17] James and, and I'm talking to him, and I remember telling him,
[02:03:21] How will he, is he, is probably, let me see,
[02:03:24] What, what, what, what, what, what,
[02:03:25] So, uh, so, uh, he, uh, he's, uh, seven.
[02:03:30] Okay.
[02:03:31] And, um, he said, I say, James,
[02:03:34] I don't just love you.
[02:03:35] I am in love with you.
[02:03:37] And he started crying.
[02:03:38] He, that really meant something to him.
[02:03:39] You know, he really meant something.
[02:03:41] And then I realized, fuck man, this kid really digs me, you know,
[02:03:45] Really freaking digs me.
[02:03:47] So I, he falls asleep by take him to bed,
[02:03:50] and I go back up into my bonus room.
[02:03:52] And I realize that I need to make a change now.
[02:03:56] This has to happen now.
[02:03:58] So that whole that I was looking at,
[02:04:00] that I was almost capitulated to, you know,
[02:04:02] I'm, it the bottom of the whole.
[02:04:04] It was like in a piffy-any where I,
[02:04:08] I, I'm not letting this, this bitch bury me.
[02:04:11] I will not be defeated.
[02:04:12] I am not buried.
[02:04:13] I have been planted.
[02:04:15] You know, it was, it was just moment of clarity I had.
[02:04:18] I put out my running shoes and, uh,
[02:04:20] put my, um, my, my, I, I pod, I, yeah, I pod out my head, head,
[02:04:25] phones, uh, put out some shorts and I said, all right,
[02:04:28] settle on on clock.
[02:04:29] I'm going to go for run tomorrow.
[02:04:30] No plan.
[02:04:31] Just let me go clear my head.
[02:04:33] Got up full of piss and vinegar.
[02:04:35] Put the shit on and I ran.
[02:04:37] And I'm not a ground pounder.
[02:04:39] I like the sprint.
[02:04:40] I like running.
[02:04:41] But I ran for about an hour and a half.
[02:04:43] It's not stopped.
[02:04:45] I just kept running around town, you know,
[02:04:47] got back in my driveway.
[02:04:48] I'm starving.
[02:04:50] And I look at the house and I'm going,
[02:04:52] this is the house where dreams go to die.
[02:04:55] I don't want to go inside.
[02:04:57] So I stay in my driveway.
[02:04:58] I work out for like another two hours.
[02:05:00] Just up and down.
[02:05:01] I had some dumbbells and I put it more.
[02:05:03] And I just work out for like another two hours.
[02:05:05] I mean, to the point of like incapacitation.
[02:05:08] Um, but that was it.
[02:05:10] That was my, that was my rebirth thinking.
[02:05:12] There's no way I'm going to be defeated by this.
[02:05:14] There's no way.
[02:05:15] And I am not buried.
[02:05:17] I have been planted.
[02:05:19] Uh, but that was the beginning of the whole.
[02:05:21] And then with the cop coming the day before.
[02:05:23] Hmm, it's a, get the fuck out.
[02:05:25] So that day, I got the fuck out.
[02:05:27] Um, grabbed your shit and left.
[02:05:29] Yeah, it was just 500 yards away.
[02:05:31] I found a, um, condo.
[02:05:33] Because I didn't want to be far from my kiddies.
[02:05:35] Yeah, for sure.
[02:05:36] Um, so it's like 500 yards as a crow flies.
[02:05:39] And just pick, you know, I didn't need things.
[02:05:42] I needed my guns and some tools and that kind of stuff.
[02:05:46] And uh, packed up what I, what I could and just freaking buggy.
[02:05:51] Uh, yeah, and started that arduous process of domestic messiness
[02:05:57] I lasted for a long time with me because I was trying to get custody too at the time.
[02:06:02] And trying to do that in North Carolina is like pulling free and teeth.
[02:06:07] Yeah, and they need, you need, um, they're got to a point where I was going.
[02:06:13] The cops had go see the magistrate. I mean, magistrate.
[02:06:16] I went to the magistrate.
[02:06:18] I pleaded my case.
[02:06:20] Magistrate says you need to call, um, mobile, uh, mobile, um, mobile crisis management.
[02:06:27] Call mobile crisis management.
[02:06:30] And they say you need to talk to her shrink.
[02:06:32] I go to the shrink.
[02:06:34] They won't talk to me.
[02:06:35] They say go tell the police.
[02:06:36] So it's sent me in a big circle.
[02:06:38] So I finally talked mobile crisis management into, um, they said we're voluntary.
[02:06:45] They have to voluntarily commit themselves as can you least talk to her.
[02:06:48] So they talked to her. They came out said yes, um, paranoid and, uh, delusion.
[02:06:54] No doubt.
[02:06:56] I said so what does it take? She goes, there has to be basically in, in the state, something horrible
[02:07:05] happens. Has to happen first.
[02:07:08] Like, let me set the house on fire.
[02:07:10] Let me drown the kid. That kind of thing. Then, okay.
[02:07:14] Now it's okay.
[02:07:16] You got, yeah, it's, I said, are you fucking shit me?
[02:07:19] This is how it works.
[02:07:20] I said, you're basic.
[02:07:21] That's what those are my words.
[02:07:22] I said, basically what you're telling me is something horrible happens.
[02:07:25] That's, you know, that's exactly what I'm telling you.
[02:07:28] Something horrible happened.
[02:07:29] Has to happen first.
[02:07:32] As you, as you look back at this, like from your perspective right now, because a lot of guys that, um,
[02:07:38] a lot of veterans got a guy that have gotten out.
[02:07:41] And a lot of guys, you know, they had, they were off time with it.
[02:07:44] Is there, uh, advice straight up when, when a guy's looking at the abyss, when a guy's thinking everything sucks,
[02:07:51] when a guy's thinking, they lost their job, their wife's acting crazy, whatever, all these things pile up,
[02:07:57] is there advice that you have for guys that get in that situation? What I always tell people is like you need to find a new mission.
[02:08:03] That's what you need to do.
[02:08:04] That's exactly what I, I, either mission or I say purpose, um, or meaning.
[02:08:10] So, um, meaning could be volunteering somewhere.
[02:08:14] It could be going to the gym, you know, saying it's an awesome act.
[02:08:20] But you have to have purpose in meaning.
[02:08:22] You have to find those things.
[02:08:24] So, one of the things, this is a funny, this, I, I volunteer every day.
[02:08:29] I have five guys I train at my gym.
[02:08:32] It's grottis, I do a volunteer voluntarily.
[02:08:35] Um, but they're relying on me to show up.
[02:08:38] You know, so it's a gift.
[02:08:40] They always say thanks, bro, man, because I'm changing their lives.
[02:08:43] These are, guys, I know they work in the community.
[02:08:45] You know, it's my mechanic, my, uh, owner, my pub.
[02:08:48] These kind of things.
[02:08:49] Um, but, you know, I'm changing their lives, but the other thing, I tell them is,
[02:08:53] bro, thank you because, you know, you're getting me here.
[02:08:56] You're, you're getting me here.
[02:08:58] You keep me on my, uh, programming and you're giving me purpose in meaning.
[02:09:02] I'm still getting a probably freaking get some anyway, because that's who I am.
[02:09:06] But, you know, you're keeping me on schedule, keeping me on track.
[02:09:10] That kind of thing.
[02:09:11] So, thank you.
[02:09:12] Um, but yeah, you got to have, you know, new mission statement.
[02:09:16] Purpose in meaning.
[02:09:17] Got to have those things, especially guys who've been in for a long, freaking time.
[02:09:21] Um, and sometimes it pisses me off because I'll have guys ask for advice and they'll say,
[02:09:27] I'm in a dark spot, you know, I've been loving wife and kids who love me.
[02:09:31] And I want to tell them, bro, fuck you.
[02:09:34] You know what, um, because I had to do that shit without that, with hate, with disdain.
[02:09:40] Um, and that's your reason right there, man.
[02:09:44] That's your mission.
[02:09:45] You got a wife of freaking digs a hell out of you and supports everything you do.
[02:09:49] You know, that's your queen, bro.
[02:09:52] Lay out the free and carpet.
[02:09:54] Your mission is to make her coffee and cook for her, clean your house or whatever it is.
[02:09:58] I don't know.
[02:09:59] Make a lot of money so she's comfortable.
[02:10:02] Yeah, I don't know.
[02:10:04] And then what was it, uh, as your business grew, like what was some, what was some things that, that kind of accelerated your business?
[02:10:14] Um, I think the big thing is, um, I don't, um, you know, all my eggs aren't in one basket.
[02:10:22] That's a big one.
[02:10:23] But because that business is good, but I've been hit before by, like, sequestration and stuff like that.
[02:10:28] It could be a ammo crisis or whatever, because basically my business is, you know,
[02:10:33] shooting combat marksmanship, close quarter battle, those kind of things.
[02:10:38] Um, that works well.
[02:10:40] That runs well because I have my own brand of training methodology and, you know,
[02:10:45] can't be replicated.
[02:10:46] We're all teaching basically the same thing.
[02:10:48] It's just that, how do you deliver that?
[02:10:50] You know, what is your delivery platform?
[02:10:53] How do you relate?
[02:10:54] Because that's what people are buying.
[02:10:56] I mean, you could teach somebody to squeeze a trigger the same way I can, but how do you deliver that message?
[02:11:02] And then, you know, what words do you use and, and, um, what demonstrations can you put together?
[02:11:08] And how is this important, um, or why?
[02:11:13] So, uh, that business goes good.
[02:11:15] And then I just, I keep putting some jam and shit into the pipeline.
[02:11:18] You know what I mean?
[02:11:20] I still don't want to ban when opportunity knocks and like, yeah, I'm snatching that up.
[02:11:25] I'm doing that.
[02:11:26] I'm, yeah.
[02:11:27] And it's been a double-ed sword because the last couple years I've got really smoked.
[02:11:32] So this year I cut back on courses.
[02:11:34] And I'm going to work more out of like home, do more mentoring and coaching,
[02:11:39] look online stuff and, you know, some more product that kind of thing.
[02:11:43] Hmm.
[02:11:44] What kind of products you selling?
[02:11:46] Well, you know, I get the bands that they get you some bands.
[02:11:50] And those are, you know, everyone's well, get them in stock.
[02:11:55] Um, and it's not something I have constant flow because I have to order them.
[02:11:59] That would be made.
[02:12:00] Uh, I've got a sling thing.
[02:12:03] You know, that's for a, uh, it's kind of like a modular monopod.
[02:12:06] I got books.
[02:12:07] I got, uh, what kind of product do I have?
[02:12:11] Not a lot.
[02:12:12] Not, not, not, not, I have like a store, you know, teacher.
[02:12:15] Yeah.
[02:12:16] Yeah.
[02:12:17] Okay, somebody wants to get you some.
[02:12:18] Nope.
[02:12:19] Yeah.
[02:12:19] That's one of the teachers get you some.
[02:12:21] That's one of them.
[02:12:22] Get your blaze off.
[02:12:23] Yeah.
[02:12:24] Get your blaze off.
[02:12:24] Get your blaze on.
[02:12:25] And you do.
[02:12:26] When you, uh, like I've seen some of your stuff where you've got like,
[02:12:29] blaze ops.
[02:12:30] Yeah.
[02:12:31] 45s.
[02:12:32] Oh, right.
[02:12:33] Yeah.
[02:12:34] Are those like, um, available?
[02:12:35] Uh, well, those, everyone's wanted you to collaborate.
[02:12:38] Got it.
[02:12:39] With a guy, you know, and so I did one with them.
[02:12:42] Because I know someone that needs a blaze.
[02:12:44] Yeah.
[02:12:45] Yeah.
[02:12:46] We don't have that.
[02:12:47] That was our nearest 25.
[02:12:48] Only 25 of those were made.
[02:12:49] We got to do another run.
[02:12:50] Yeah.
[02:12:51] Yeah.
[02:12:52] Well, I'm collaborating right now with another company to do a different one.
[02:12:55] So it's, it's, it's very fledgling right now.
[02:12:58] It's in, it's, it's, it's, it's, but, but I've done, uh, like,
[02:13:01] a, like a, a knife, you know, a, a knife by one company, a done three different
[02:13:09] guns, different gun companies working on another one right now.
[02:13:13] It's just going to collab, you know, build partnerships with company for sure.
[02:13:17] Yep.
[02:13:18] Um, sometime they work well, sometime they do not.
[02:13:20] Yeah.
[02:13:21] They all got everybody out there is, uh, there's some, there's some slimy motherfuckers.
[02:13:26] There isn't need.
[02:13:28] Yeah.
[02:13:29] Uh, I mean, look, dude, it's been, it's been over two hours.
[02:13:33] Yep.
[02:13:34] Uh, but so all the stuff that you're doing right now, you're getting after, you got, you got, um,
[02:13:39] T-max, T-max, ink.com.
[02:13:42] Yep.
[02:13:43] That's where people go to hook up with your training, which I looked at your schedule.
[02:13:46] You said you're not doing as much.
[02:13:47] Yeah.
[02:13:48] Bro, your calendars.
[02:13:49] Yeah.
[02:13:50] It's not much more than two courses a month though.
[02:13:53] Yep.
[02:13:54] For the, for the year.
[02:13:55] But you do them in different locations.
[02:13:56] Yes.
[02:13:57] Yeah.
[02:13:58] Yeah.
[02:13:59] And what I was going to say was you're like, hey, look, you know, people can shoot.
[02:14:02] And, and there's, you know, thousands and thousands of guys that are really good with pistol.
[02:14:06] And then you kind of mentioned, but, you know, it's a methodology.
[02:14:09] But also, look, I instruct you, man, I teach leadership all the time.
[02:14:12] That's what I do.
[02:14:13] And there's a bunch of people at teach leadership.
[02:14:15] Yep.
[02:14:16] There's, uh, there's a communication skill set that you have where what you can do is convey the message
[02:14:21] properly that so people actually absorb it.
[02:14:23] Right.
[02:14:24] That's the important part.
[02:14:25] You can say that, you know, the big thing about teaching is you have to be the right person.
[02:14:28] It's going to say the right thing.
[02:14:29] To the right person at the right time.
[02:14:30] It's important to know what to say.
[02:14:32] But more important to know what not to say.
[02:14:35] And the message has to be palatable too.
[02:14:37] And then, you know, has to resonate with, uh, resonate and be relevant.
[02:14:42] But yeah, man, it's, I love doing that.
[02:14:44] I love the teaching thing.
[02:14:45] Um, and, and those courses are for everybody.
[02:14:49] Yes.
[02:14:50] Yeah.
[02:14:51] I do open enrollment courses.
[02:14:52] Yeah.
[02:14:53] So I get the full gambit of people.
[02:14:55] I think most of them are sold out this year.
[02:14:57] I think the only one open.
[02:14:59] I have a woman's course and a beginner's course.
[02:15:01] I've never taught either.
[02:15:03] Right.
[02:15:03] Where's the beginner's course?
[02:15:05] Because they're, Charles is signing up.
[02:15:06] They're both, um, they're both in North Carolina.
[02:15:09] Find the North Carolina, I go Charles.
[02:15:11] Yep.
[02:15:11] I'll bring my party mix.
[02:15:12] Yeah.
[02:15:13] Okay.
[02:15:14] Thanks.
[02:15:14] Yeah.
[02:15:15] So we got, so we got Dmax, Inc.com.
[02:15:18] Then you also have combat strengths.
[02:15:19] Right.
[02:15:20] Training.
[02:15:20] Yeah.
[02:15:23] Which is where.
[02:15:24] And you got, look, I don't, one of the reasons I didn't talk a bunch about this is because you got awesome videos online.
[02:15:30] You talk about what you're doing.
[02:15:31] You show what you're doing.
[02:15:33] Right.
[02:15:34] Um, you got those courses.
[02:15:35] Clearly you're based on and I hate to use the word functional.
[02:15:39] Right.
[02:15:40] Because everyone's been over on this.
[02:15:41] But if going look at your, your stuff, what you're doing.
[02:15:45] You can see clearly.
[02:15:46] These are drills, skills, conditioning.
[02:15:49] And based on being able to function in a wide variety of environments.
[02:15:53] Critical situations.
[02:15:54] Yeah.
[02:15:55] The functional thing is overused and abused.
[02:15:58] Uh, I say it's exercise for the real world.
[02:16:01] Yeah.
[02:16:02] I think that what we do or what I put together.
[02:16:05] It's all about um, life saving or ask kicking.
[02:16:09] You know, those are essentially it.
[02:16:11] And I put a lot of free information out there on my, uh,
[02:16:13] InstaShiz, um, Instagram.
[02:16:15] Yeah.
[02:16:16] Um, you know, yeah.
[02:16:17] Yeah.
[02:16:18] So that T max Inc.
[02:16:19] Yeah.
[02:16:20] Insta.
[02:16:21] And the workout stuff that I put on there, it's not about hubris or gloating.
[02:16:25] It's, it's about hey, this is a power day example because guys will buy my programming.
[02:16:30] And if they run out of, uh, curriculum, uh, or ideas, they could just go back and say,
[02:16:37] Are I power day strength?
[02:16:38] They speed and quickness.
[02:16:39] Sorry.
[02:16:40] Yeah.
[02:16:41] Those are good ideas.
[02:16:42] Uh, yeah.
[02:16:43] So, and it's, it's a great freaking platform.
[02:16:45] And that's what I use it for information.
[02:16:47] Yep.
[02:16:48] So those are the two, uh, T max Inc.com.
[02:16:50] You've got combat strength training.
[02:16:52] You got come.
[02:16:53] You got a Facebook which is T max Inc.
[02:16:54] You've got your Instagram.
[02:16:56] Yep.
[02:16:57] Would you say InstaShiz?
[02:16:58] InstaShiz?
[02:16:59] No, but Loady, homie.
[02:17:01] Uh, he calls it the gram.
[02:17:03] I don't even call it that.
[02:17:05] Capital, capital, capital, capital, G.
[02:17:07] The gram.
[02:17:08] Yeah.
[02:17:09] And yours, uh, you, you, you all kinds of the other thing you do.
[02:17:12] You talk about theirs, which is, which is awesome.
[02:17:14] You give people a little heads up on, you know, you are your own protection.
[02:17:18] Yes.
[02:17:19] Yeah.
[02:17:20] So, Sunday, Sentinel, Sermons.
[02:17:22] Yep.
[02:17:23] So teaching people, hey man, there's just things to think about.
[02:17:25] Yep.
[02:17:26] And everybody could use those things.
[02:17:27] Right.
[02:17:28] Because the world is not a happy, peaceful place all the time.
[02:17:31] Right.
[02:17:32] Yep.
[02:17:33] And it's really easy to lose track of those.
[02:17:34] Uh, echo.
[02:17:35] You got anything?
[02:17:36] And I got out.
[02:17:37] You, my YouTube channel too.
[02:17:38] Pat Mac, YouTube channel.
[02:17:39] Oh yeah.
[02:17:40] And those are great shooting drills.
[02:17:42] You got everything on the side.
[02:17:43] Oh, I got it.
[02:17:44] It pisses me off every time I see it.
[02:17:45] Because I know you're like, either at your gym, at your house, at your range.
[02:17:49] And I live, of course, living California in a city.
[02:17:52] Yes.
[02:17:53] So, you can only, you know, luckily I get to shoot my bow, but I'm not cracking off rounds out
[02:17:57] my back door.
[02:17:58] I can promise you that.
[02:17:59] So every time I see you climbing a faster, but cracking off rounds, I get so pissed
[02:18:03] of like, well, I'm moving to North Carolina.
[02:18:05] Yeah.
[02:18:06] Come on.
[02:18:07] Free America.
[02:18:08] We got to go.
[02:18:09] Well, you're bicep.
[02:18:10] Like, what, what's the status on this?
[02:18:12] I mean, you know, like, if you were to look at me, armed arm comparison, one small
[02:18:18] or the other, and there's a big skull on, you know.
[02:18:21] Well, you said it tore on them on the muscle.
[02:18:23] So, did you have surgery?
[02:18:24] Yes.
[02:18:25] They did.
[02:18:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:18:27] It was very freaking meatball surgery.
[02:18:29] Oh, army base.
[02:18:30] Yes.
[02:18:31] You were 18, you know, private.
[02:18:32] They gave that to like a new guy doctor.
[02:18:34] They're like, I want for you.
[02:18:36] Yeah.
[02:18:37] I mean, the skull is my heart.
[02:18:38] I mean, it's all keyloid.
[02:18:39] It's like that.
[02:18:40] Why, you know.
[02:18:41] And yeah, it's yeah.
[02:18:43] But it's five or four volts of his E-tor, each of his bones.
[02:18:47] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[02:18:48] That's what you have operated on?
[02:18:49] Yeah, yeah.
[02:18:50] The tendon, the tendon.
[02:18:51] Yeah, that's different.
[02:18:52] Yeah.
[02:18:53] Yeah.
[02:18:54] But it works though.
[02:18:55] Yeah, yeah.
[02:18:56] Oh, yeah.
[02:18:57] All my surgeries, because I've had a bunch of them.
[02:18:59] There are everything's good, man.
[02:19:00] I'm feeling pretty good.
[02:19:02] But I attribute that to how I train.
[02:19:06] And I take care of myself.
[02:19:07] So I work out pretty freaking smart, a little more tentative now, because I'm 55
[02:19:13] freaking years old.
[02:19:15] So, you know, a little more tentative when it comes to like mixing up, grappling, freaking,
[02:19:21] you know, that kind of thing.
[02:19:23] I don't need to get jacked up while I'm training.
[02:19:26] It's called fitness, not brokenness.
[02:19:29] I got my own, the other thing is I got my own podcast.
[02:19:34] Right on, and university a badass.
[02:19:36] That's right.
[02:19:37] So, I'm going to go with CJ and watch CJ's deal.
[02:19:39] He's the metal motivator.
[02:19:41] So he used to be a preacher.
[02:19:43] Yeah.
[02:19:44] So we've got a pretty good, good dynamic, because he's got a gift for Toribro.
[02:19:47] I mean, I got jacked his jaws.
[02:19:51] And he makes were legit cool too.
[02:19:53] But he's like a metal head, right?
[02:19:55] Yeah, yeah.
[02:19:56] His monochron line is the metal motivator.
[02:19:58] Right on, right on, it's funny, it's happening.
[02:20:00] We have, you guys put out that podcast.
[02:20:03] Not often enough.
[02:20:04] Like once, month and a half, something like that.
[02:20:08] Yeah.
[02:20:09] But it's fun.
[02:20:10] It's all upbeat.
[02:20:11] Yeah.
[02:20:12] Positive messaging and stuff like that.
[02:20:14] Right on, man.
[02:20:15] Right on, anything else.
[02:20:16] What?
[02:20:17] Do we miss anything?
[02:20:18] No, bro.
[02:20:19] I just really, I appreciate the opportunity to be sitting here with you.
[02:20:22] And like I said, man, the inner web is a cool place if you use it right.
[02:20:27] You know, if you use that thing right, it's a great platform that can help others.
[02:20:32] And then I get to meet guys like you.
[02:20:35] And you think it's like, do you not ready for you to know you because you know it?
[02:20:39] It's the same feeling I get every time.
[02:20:41] Right on, yeah.
[02:20:42] Right on, yeah.
[02:20:43] Well, hey, man, thanks for coming on.
[02:20:45] Glad you came out the California right up.
[02:20:47] You know, thanks for your 22 years on the grind.
[02:20:51] Cool.
[02:20:52] You know, taking that, taking us as a nation from the Cold War to the war on terror.
[02:20:58] And for, wasn't for guys like you that kept those skills up during all that time that we
[02:21:03] wouldn't have been ready for, you know, what we faced on the battlefield.
[02:21:06] So thanks for your service, brother.
[02:21:08] I can roll.
[02:21:09] That's what I'm talking about.
[02:21:10] Thank you, sir.
[02:21:11] Right on.
[02:21:13] And with that, Pat Mack has left the building.
[02:21:20] And we are here should be, hopefully, let's just say, enthusiastic about improving
[02:21:28] our skill sets in life.
[02:21:30] Agreed.
[02:21:31] In all aspects.
[02:21:32] Yes.
[02:21:33] Sometimes it might be hard to figure out of all these skill sets.
[02:21:38] Where am I going to put my focus?
[02:21:39] How do I prioritize and execute selecting proper skill sets to improve on?
[02:21:46] What do you recommend, echo Charles?
[02:21:47] Well, I recommend you get to have this.
[02:21:50] But interestingly, right?
[02:21:51] So Pat Mack, he's over here jumping at all, up pertaining these to improve his skill sets.
[02:21:57] Are you training scenario?
[02:21:59] He was offered jump done at the end when you wind up with a lot of skill sets.
[02:22:04] Yep.
[02:22:05] So many skill sets that you kind of forget you have.
[02:22:08] So the moment comes and you're like, oh, you know, I can do that.
[02:22:12] Right, did that.
[02:22:13] Yeah, true.
[02:22:14] So don't let get what skill sets you have until it's time to disarm a Bulgarian
[02:22:20] land mind you.
[02:22:21] I want to go school for that.
[02:22:23] Pat Mack.
[02:22:24] Come on in, all right.
[02:22:26] So don't let you get to not be one of those skills.
[02:22:28] Yes.
[02:22:29] You know, we didn't even talk about the fighting skills with Pat Mack for some reason.
[02:22:36] Yeah.
[02:22:37] Because he's, you know, he does stand up.
[02:22:39] He does the jitsu.
[02:22:41] His jim is primarily an MMA jim, actually.
[02:22:46] So anyways, we including Pat Mack agree.
[02:22:53] What is one skill set that you can utilize just about everywhere?
[02:22:57] The jitsu.
[02:22:58] It's true.
[02:22:59] So, when we train jitsu, we need the jitsu to get if we're doing ghee, which we recommend
[02:23:03] doing ghee.
[02:23:04] So we are, in fact, doing ghee.
[02:23:06] So get an origin ghee.
[02:23:08] That's the answer.
[02:23:09] Best ghee factually in the world.
[02:23:11] Many options.
[02:23:14] Quality arguably luxury.
[02:23:16] Arguably.
[02:23:17] Oh, is that kind of a, is that a problem for me?
[02:23:21] I don't know.
[02:23:22] When I put on my rift ghee and my kind of, you're in the Laplacerie.
[02:23:27] For sure.
[02:23:28] It does feel like we were putting on a rift ghee.
[02:23:30] Very luxurious, yes sir.
[02:23:32] Nonetheless, it's functional as well.
[02:23:35] More importantly, and just so happens to be made in America.
[02:23:40] That's not just so happens.
[02:23:41] It's made in America through the determination, the determination of the people of America.
[02:23:50] It's not on purpose.
[02:23:53] It's not happen, since straight up on purpose.
[02:23:55] There was people that said it couldn't be done, by the way.
[02:23:58] Pete Roberts told all those people really.
[02:24:02] Yeah, yeah.
[02:24:03] What was this?
[02:24:04] It's cool to make ghee in America.
[02:24:09] Unfortunately, it's not cool that you can't wear your ghee all the time.
[02:24:13] Yeah, so, you know, I guess that's not.
[02:24:16] Right?
[02:24:17] That's not cool.
[02:24:18] I mean, you, I guess you will.
[02:24:19] Good wear your ghee all the time, but you might get some funny looks at the supermarket.
[02:24:24] So if you ever worn your ghee outside the gym, they himnazium.
[02:24:30] Yeah, so one time actually made, no one time, where I was up later than my lovely wife.
[02:24:38] I didn't want to go in the room and like disturb her maybe waker up or something like that.
[02:24:42] To go get a jack, it was kind of cold.
[02:24:43] So I want to put it on.
[02:24:45] I was wondering how you got a ghee on.
[02:24:48] I needed a jacket scenario.
[02:24:50] It's going on, but I didn't want to disturb.
[02:24:52] So I'm like looking around for just, I don't know anything.
[02:24:54] I didn't want to put a blanket on myself on the computer.
[02:24:57] It seemed kind of, I don't know.
[02:24:58] I mean, I guess I could have, but it kind of is not functional.
[02:25:02] You know, you don't get in the way when you're typing and you got to read you.
[02:25:04] Anyway, I find the riff ghee.
[02:25:07] I put it on it worked.
[02:25:08] Seems like.
[02:25:09] Yeah.
[02:25:10] So that there, there, I was there sitting there wearing my ghee top outside of the gym.
[02:25:16] And what we wearing, we wearing pants joggers?
[02:25:19] No, no, I don't.
[02:25:22] Short.
[02:25:23] I probably was not wearing shorts if it was cold, but.
[02:25:26] Good point.
[02:25:27] It's not a good point for me, because I wear shorts when it's cold all the time.
[02:25:30] Yeah, but your legs don't get cold.
[02:25:31] That is fake.
[02:25:32] You know, your legs.
[02:25:33] Yeah, I don't know.
[02:25:34] I don't, I don't remember, but I think it was pants of some sort.
[02:25:38] All right.
[02:25:39] Nonetheless, yes, we're getting origin ghee.
[02:25:41] Yes.
[02:25:42] And because you can't wear a ghee, unless your echo Charles in your house don't want
[02:25:45] to wake up your wife.
[02:25:46] Most of the time, you don't want to wear a ghee around.
[02:25:49] If you need pants, guess what?
[02:25:52] You can get jeans, origin jeans, origin jeans, which are also made 100% in America.
[02:26:01] And we just released the second version of the jeans, which are the first version, was called
[02:26:09] the factory jeans.
[02:26:10] They're a heavy weight, heavy error weight.
[02:26:12] I guess technically they'd be a medium weight.
[02:26:15] But we have now launched the Delta 68 jeans, which are lightweight.
[02:26:24] People ask, are they, what is the word, flexible?
[02:26:26] Is that the word?
[02:26:27] Yeah, stretch, stretch, stretch.
[02:26:29] Yes, they are.
[02:26:31] There's, there, they're made to move.
[02:26:34] You can do a full deep squat workout in your jeans.
[02:26:39] They're not jaggings though.
[02:26:40] You know, jaggings are no.
[02:26:43] They're leggings, but jeans.
[02:26:45] Oh, no, no, no, they just look like jeans, but they're leggings.
[02:26:49] Oh.
[02:26:50] So they're not jaggings.
[02:26:51] They're kind of a violation of humanity with that.
[02:26:55] Hey, you're the one who said the stretch, you said the word stretch.
[02:26:58] Not me, you.
[02:26:59] So, unless we got a clarify, so Delta 68 jeans have some give in them.
[02:27:04] Let's just sit at them.
[02:27:05] Have some give in them.
[02:27:06] They allow you to.
[02:27:07] They allow you to.
[02:27:08] Some freedom of movement.
[02:27:09] You're in a high kick or something like this.
[02:27:10] Fine.
[02:27:11] You're good.
[02:27:12] There you go.
[02:27:13] Delta 68 jeans are in the house.
[02:27:16] There's it.
[02:27:17] We're also joggers.
[02:27:20] Comfortable joggers.
[02:27:21] For people that wear joggers.
[02:27:22] In the event of you wearing joggers, boom, origin, main.com.
[02:27:26] That's where you get this stuff also supplements.
[02:27:30] Jocco are supplements important.
[02:27:33] They are important.
[02:27:34] I'm not to split it.
[02:27:37] And I think it puts too sharp of a point on it.
[02:27:43] But it depends what kind of supplements.
[02:27:45] True.
[02:27:46] True.
[02:27:47] I recommend that you put supplements that allow you to get after it at the top of your list.
[02:27:53] I.
[02:27:54] I.
[02:27:54] Joint warfare.
[02:27:55] Yes, sir.
[02:27:56] I.
[02:27:57] I.
[02:27:58] Criolloial.
[02:27:59] Super grill.
[02:28:00] Super grill.
[02:28:01] Keep your joints in the game.
[02:28:05] If your joints aren't in the game, you're not in the game.
[02:28:07] Straight up.
[02:28:08] You know, discipline, discipline go, discipline go, pills, discipline go in a can.
[02:28:14] You're going to need more protein.
[02:28:16] Guess what?
[02:28:17] You might as well get a protein that tastes like dessert.
[02:28:20] You don't have to punish yourself with protein.
[02:28:22] Remember those days?
[02:28:23] Back.
[02:28:24] Pockering the treat.
[02:28:25] If you want to actually protein, it was a punishment.
[02:28:28] It was a punishment.
[02:28:29] Yeah.
[02:28:30] If you wanted the good one.
[02:28:31] Like you could get the, you know how like mega male mass.
[02:28:34] Five thousand.
[02:28:35] I don't know if you ever had this one.
[02:28:36] I want to eat a big.
[02:28:37] A big.
[02:28:38] A big five thousand.
[02:28:39] Yeah, it's in a big like.
[02:28:40] A huge thing.
[02:28:41] But taste is pretty good.
[02:28:42] But I'm fairly searching.
[02:28:44] There is like straight up sugar and all this stuff.
[02:28:46] And maybe like technically I might add some protein in there.
[02:28:49] But it was like 5,000 calories or something like this.
[02:28:51] Yeah, it was just you seem to say.
[02:28:54] So milk.
[02:28:55] You don't need to drink that junk anymore.
[02:28:57] Now you can drink milk.
[02:28:58] Mint strawberry.
[02:29:00] Mint strawberry.
[02:29:02] Vanilla.
[02:29:03] Chocolate.
[02:29:04] And peanut butter.
[02:29:05] Yeah.
[02:29:06] Good stuff.
[02:29:07] You know, Dan who also got warrior kid milk.
[02:29:12] You can hook that up for your children.
[02:29:13] Why would you give your children poison?
[02:29:16] No, he's giving milk.
[02:29:18] I'll tell you the reason, man.
[02:29:22] Short term versus long term.
[02:29:23] Everything.
[02:29:24] Everything you need broken down short term versus long term.
[02:29:26] So you can even kids poison as it were.
[02:29:30] Or these supremely unhealthy items for short term gain to keep them quiet, to keep them
[02:29:39] from complaining, to put a temporary smile on their face.
[02:29:43] You know why you do it?
[02:29:44] I don't even think that's the case, man.
[02:29:45] I just think you don't know.
[02:29:47] You just don't know.
[02:29:48] Now yes, you're right.
[02:29:49] You go, okay.
[02:29:50] Hey, I got this strawberry drink beverage.
[02:29:55] It's going to keep my kid quiet.
[02:29:56] Make him happy.
[02:29:57] You don't even know that there's an option that there's something that could keep
[02:30:00] him quiet, make him happy, and make them stronger and smarter and better.
[02:30:05] Yeah, so you know how like you or we whatever will discuss that really most things.
[02:30:11] Pretty much everything in life can be broken down into short term and long term, like
[02:30:15] battles, right?
[02:30:18] Most of the time, by most I don't know really what I mean by most, but we'll just
[02:30:22] say most of the time.
[02:30:25] Usually if you chew short term, it's at the expense of a long term.
[02:30:29] Usually they're exceptions.
[02:30:31] But every once in a while you get something that fulfills both short term and long term.
[02:30:36] Sushi, in my opinion, where you kid and monk.
[02:30:42] That's another exception.
[02:30:43] Short term gains, short term, pleasure, long term, not only said section, but long term gains.
[02:30:51] And by the way, you can get all this stuff, including Jockel White T at the Vitamin Shop,
[02:30:55] or you can get everything that we just talked about at Origin Main, the statema.ne.com.
[02:31:04] True.
[02:31:05] Also, Jockel is a store, it's called Jockel Store, and this is where you can get your very
[02:31:10] own t-shirts, your very own rashguard, more rashguards, more representative of this path
[02:31:18] that we're all on. Hats, hoodies, I don't know if I said hoodies are ready, but they're on
[02:31:23] there, some women's stuff on there too.
[02:31:25] We'll good stuff, good way to support, and more importantly, good way to represent.
[02:31:30] Yeah, it's a good bone of feedies when you're out in the field.
[02:31:33] Oh, big time.
[02:31:34] You're just in the airport, you're representing, and all of a sudden, some of those,
[02:31:37] they give you the nut.
[02:31:39] Yep, the nut.
[02:31:40] They give you the nut, and we know if something goes down, we know at least one person
[02:31:45] we can count on over there, but it's a bowl of feedies.
[02:31:48] Two.
[02:31:49] Got that, you?
[02:31:50] Yeah, definitely.
[02:31:51] Of course, sure on your leg A with this guy's got my back.
[02:31:52] Yeah, you feel the game he knows.
[02:31:54] Put it in flag, fully.
[02:31:57] Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already on your iTunes or the state, or wherever
[02:32:03] you listen to it.
[02:32:04] It's a good benefit to subscribe, right?
[02:32:07] You get the episode right in your, I don't know if you call it inbox or what, but you
[02:32:11] get it on your phone.
[02:32:13] And also, don't forget that we have the grounded podcast.
[02:32:17] And the Warrior Kid podcast.
[02:32:20] And don't forget, if you, if you like the Warrior Kid idea, can support one warrior kid named
[02:32:28] Aiden who makes soap at IrishOxRanch.com.
[02:32:35] Do we have it up on our site yet?
[02:32:37] Currently, we're finalizing some stuff, but I did get my sample of the killer soap.
[02:32:43] And very good, proved big time, right?
[02:32:46] Now, you're supposed to kind of good too.
[02:32:47] Yeah.
[02:32:48] And the one of these flowery ones, which I dig it, the here's the thing, I'm not mad at flowery
[02:32:52] soap.
[02:32:53] I am.
[02:32:54] Okay, I dig it, I fully dig it, but I am not.
[02:32:57] In fact, everyone's well, I appreciate a little, not even necessarily flowery, but you know,
[02:33:01] like a Irish, like a refreshing, you see them saying, unless the killer soap has a
[02:33:09] scent to it's mild, but in a proved scent to it, well, it's tea tree oil.
[02:33:15] But, but it's somewhat scent.
[02:33:17] No, well, it has tea tree oil, but what it actually smells like to me is mint.
[02:33:21] Like I, it's just, and it's, what about the visual effect?
[02:33:25] Yeah, see, that's cool.
[02:33:27] That's cool.
[02:33:28] So, it's so awesome.
[02:33:30] Yeah, it's good.
[02:33:31] I knew what that soap was called.
[02:33:33] Killer soap.
[02:33:34] Killer soap.
[02:33:35] Get rid of little, like nasties that are crawling on you.
[02:33:40] Yeah.
[02:33:41] And the other thing it helps you do is just goes ahead and it will help you stay clean.
[02:33:47] Good.
[02:33:48] That's a good thing to be helped with for sure.
[02:33:52] Also, whether you tube channel, pretty much you have a YouTube channel.
[02:33:57] No, no, no, it's the weed.
[02:33:59] You're on the YouTube channel.
[02:34:00] You're on the, let's face it.
[02:34:02] You're on the YouTube channel.
[02:34:04] That's ours.
[02:34:05] I'm on this sometimes.
[02:34:06] If it's my YouTube channel, then what is it called?
[02:34:09] Jockel podcast.
[02:34:10] Okay, I guess I kinda get it.
[02:34:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:34:13] It's totally yours.
[02:34:14] And, you know, you can see the video version of this podcast.
[02:34:17] You want to see what Pat Mack looks like if you don't know already.
[02:34:19] Yeah.
[02:34:20] It's face it.
[02:34:21] A lot of us knew already.
[02:34:22] We really looked like, see what I'm saying?
[02:34:24] But if you didn't, or you want to see more of whatever, whatever, you can see it on the
[02:34:28] YouTube channel.
[02:34:29] Also, ex some excerpts on there if you're interested in that, which is kind of cool.
[02:34:32] We've talked about it before.
[02:34:35] Fire, fire, explosions.
[02:34:38] Okay.
[02:34:39] Yeah.
[02:34:40] Psychological warfare.
[02:34:41] If you need a little, it's like a logical meter.
[02:34:45] You can check that out on all MP3 platforms.
[02:34:51] Me giving you a little boost, little spot, little psychological spot.
[02:34:56] Get over the moment of weakness.
[02:34:57] Flipsidecam is dot com.
[02:34:59] My brother Dakota Meyer got all kinds of cool.
[02:35:02] A graphical representations of the path.
[02:35:06] You can check that out if you want to hang up something on your wall that says discipline
[02:35:10] equals freedom.
[02:35:12] We want to hang up the warrior kid code.
[02:35:14] You can find it there.
[02:35:15] Got a bunch of books.
[02:35:17] The latest is called Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual.
[02:35:21] Appreciate everyone hooking that up.
[02:35:23] And now what I see is people posting that they bought 14 of them for every person on their
[02:35:28] team.
[02:35:29] And I'm going to tell you, get every person on your team.
[02:35:31] Moving in that direction, your team is going to rock and roll.
[02:35:36] So check that one out for the kids out there.
[02:35:38] We got way the warrior kid one two and three.
[02:35:41] And we got for the little or kids, Mikey and the dragons.
[02:35:46] Get those books.
[02:35:47] Get them for even if it's like your neighbor kid.
[02:35:51] Look, is your life going to be better if your neighbor kid turns out to be a loser?
[02:35:57] Is that out to be a drug addict?
[02:36:02] Turns out to be a non-contributing member of society.
[02:36:03] Do you want that kid living next door?
[02:36:04] No, you want to warrior kid living next door.
[02:36:06] Why not get your the neighborhood kids on the warrior kid path?
[02:36:11] Get them all the book.
[02:36:12] Get them Mikey and the dragons so they can overcome fear.
[02:36:15] Let's change the culture of America and make kids warriors.
[02:36:22] I don't think that's too.
[02:36:23] I don't think that's too much to ask.
[02:36:25] No, no, no, no, no.
[02:36:27] Discipline goes freedom, feel manual.
[02:36:29] There's a book that you get for yourself for people that you know that you want to help
[02:36:36] them, help yourself to have more discipline.
[02:36:40] Because if you have more discipline, guess what you're going to end up with more freedom.
[02:36:44] Hence, discipline goes freedom, field manual, how to get after it.
[02:36:47] And then there's extreme ownership and the economy of leadership, which are leadership
[02:36:52] books for you, your team, your business, your life.
[02:36:58] Check those out.
[02:36:59] We also have Escalon Front, which is leadership consultancy, where what we do is solve problems
[02:37:05] through leadership.
[02:37:07] That's what we do.
[02:37:08] Go to Escalonfront.com for details.
[02:37:10] We've worked with companies of all sizes all over the world.
[02:37:16] And that's what we do.
[02:37:19] So check that out.
[02:37:20] That's the F online, which is a way to train the principles that we teach at Escalon
[02:37:26] Front, train them in your company and your business and your life online, interactive,
[02:37:32] engaging.
[02:37:34] Check that out, EF online.com.
[02:37:36] We have the Master, which is our leadership event, leadership seminar, leadership gathering.
[02:37:44] And that this year is in Orlando.
[02:37:51] It is in Phoenix, Arizona, and it is in Dallas, Texas, every one that we've done has sold out.
[02:37:55] And these are going to sell out too.
[02:37:56] So if you want to come, go to extremownership.com for details and a register.
[02:38:01] And of course, we also have EF Overwatch and EF Legion, which is where we are taking
[02:38:07] military personnel that understand the principles, leadership that we talk about all the time,
[02:38:12] taking them and employing those leadership principles in the civilian sector.
[02:38:19] So go to EF Overwatch.com for executive leadership, go to EF Legion for Frontline Leadership.
[02:38:26] And again, if you want to check out Pat Mac, he has Tmaxink.com.
[02:38:34] And he also has Combat Strength, Training.com.
[02:38:38] He also has Facebook, Tmaxink, and Instagram, Tmaxink.
[02:38:46] If you want to check out someone that's getting fired up with blaze ops, check that out.
[02:38:53] And if you want to hear more from Eko and me, but we're also on the interwebs on Twitter
[02:39:01] and on Instagram and on Los Frost, Boka.
[02:39:08] Eko is at Eko Charles and I am at Junk of Willing.
[02:39:12] Thanks once again to Pat Mac and Amara for coming on, sharing his wisdom, sharing his experience,
[02:39:19] and more importantly than that, thanks to Pat Mac for his service and sacrifice holding the line,
[02:39:27] continuing to pass on knowledge to make people in every walk of life better.
[02:39:34] And the same, of course goes out to all of that and all of our uniformed soldiers, sailors,
[02:39:40] airmen and marines out there training and fighting to keep us safe and free into our police
[02:39:50] and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional
[02:39:54] officers and border patrol and secret service.
[02:39:57] Thanks for your service as well, which also keeps us safe.
[02:40:03] Thank you for what you do.
[02:40:06] And everyone else out there, listen, make yourself capable.
[02:40:12] Improve your skills.
[02:40:13] Be ready.
[02:40:14] Be prepared.
[02:40:16] Be able to take care of yourself and the people around you and the way you do that is to go
[02:40:23] out there every single day and get after it.
[02:40:31] And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco out.