210: Leadership Strategy and Tactics. First Look and Review, Pt.1 with Dave Berke

2020-01-01T12:47:18Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @davidrberke 0:00:00 - Opening 0:05:26 - Leadership Strategy and Tactics, by Jocko. Summary Review and Analysis. GET THE BOOK HERE: https://amzn.to/2ZE8FwA 2:40:32 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Supplements: https://originmaine.com/origin-labs/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 3:03:39 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

Good evening and the last time that Dave was on we discussed Marine Corps doctrinal publication three-taque one tactics which starts with a line that reads this publication is about winning in combat which isn't an outstanding way to start off any publication of any kind and we actually ended up covering that manual on a series of four-prongcast 187-188-189 and 190 and that definitely is an outstanding manual when it comes to winning in combat for sure it explains the concepts it reveals the underlying philosophies and there are other doctrinal publications from the Marine Corps on operations and on strategy and on campaigning and there's manuals on intelligence and expeditionary operations and logistics and planning and command and control there's a manual on the Marine rifle squad they got manuals for everything there's even a Marine Corps warfighting publication of three-taque 15.1 called machine guns and machine gun gunnery which is a four-hundred and six-page manual by the way four-hundred and six-page manual this is the manual where you learn that quote this machine gun supports both the offense and defense it provides the heavy volume of close accurate and continuous fire support necessary to suppress and destroy enemy fortifications, vehicles and personnel in support of an attack the long range close defensive and final protective fires delivered by this gun forming integral part of the units defensive fires so they're going deep on machine guns and machine gun gunnery is there a title of any book in the world that has gun in it more times I don't know of any it also shows you exactly how to fire from the bipod with a 240 Gulf so firing from the bipod when firing from the bipod the rear sight is raised a assume a prone position behind the gun with the right shoulder into the weapon the right hand grasps the pistol grip and manipulates the trigger place the left hand on the comb of the stock palm down with the cheek resting lightly against the cover and or the left hand both hands exert a firm steady pressure to the rear during aiming and firing on like the tripod the bipod mount is relatively unstable elbows and upper torso may move a good sight picture must be regained before firing each burst so we're getting detailed there's no there's not much room for interpretation we're getting the instruction that we need by the way the army also has a manual for machine gunners the FM3 attack 22.68 crew served machine gun which doesn't actually cover the 50 cow it's got another manual for that doesn't cover the mod do's you know essentially the point is he forced it he tried to force it so it didn't work so in real life how that looks is like every get like I don't know your friends like a real estate agent or something any sending you like handwritten notes like hey just wondering how you're doing it like probably I don't even know you that you know it's like you'd throw obvious the one they try to force a good relationship you know I mean it's going to be freezing, there's waves it makes everything I want to give an accurate assessment I would say that if you compare to like hey we're going to take a helicopter to this target and we're going to land it we're going to patrol in compared to we're going to take boats over the beach and swim in I think it's probably I would say six times harder six times harder maybe four, maybe four to six times harder it's that much harder, I'm thinking about the preparation that you have to do and the worries that you have and then where you have a problem like you're let's face it once you're on the ground you're not going to have a problem like we got this, you're bringing the boats in at night you're sending swimmer scouts in to go there and signal that the beach I mean you're losing people bro it's crazy and then you're swimming in there's waves your boats can get turned over, your motors can fail it's just total, it makes everything so much harder so I had this Vietnam era guy that was saying to do something a certain way and we at the beginning of our training when we start to work with companies and we're going to do for years the very first thing we start with after setting the table of all these concepts is leadership capital and the question yourself every single time is what I'm going to do a deposit or is it a withdrawal and when people think of those terms they this book is called leadership strategy and tactics are you thinking strategically in this even in this conversation we're having and you know the idea of what is the likelihood this is going to advance my relationship the answer is 99.9% of the time going to be super obvious is going to stare you in the face and if you think strategically you will almost never make a leadership withdrawal you'll almost never have any capital you're taking out of the bank and then when you you said don't don't create drama over your ego and when you're ego gets in the way almost every single time even when you get what you want you are taking a you're taking money out of the bank you're depleting your leadership capital until eventually you have none and nobody wants you to win it's amazing that it's so obvious like this is so obvious that is it now the conversation is open and you can begin to figure out why the boss's idea is what it is and what you can do to influence that idea but before even getting to that point ask yourself some simple questions first how much will be gained by approaching the boss and trying to convince them to change their plan if the difference is minimal it's probably not worth investing any time or effort into it next ask yourself how much of your concern is just your ego there is a chance that you see it your way of doing things there is a chance that you see your way of doing something as smarter or more efficient then what the boss has offered if that is the case and you don't truly think there is much to be gained by using your method let it go don't create drama over your ego lastly ask yourself if you will be moving your relationship with your boss forward or backward by raising this issue I mean hammering that like at the master at the master I didn't say hey every conversation I'm going to have with another person is to improve the relationship that's like priority number one priority number one I'm going to improve our relationship if I'm going to have a conversation with Dave or relationship is getting better what Dave's walking around walking away from the conversation going man but you do the point remains yes yes hundred check check I mean this is you know and same with like at national on front we're doing all kinds of things at national on front all kinds of things I actually talked about this in the master nostril is really the most I've talked really I mean not a ton but several times I use in his example that at you know the actual echelon front muster there's a lot of moving parts there's a lot of things happening there's there's very audio visual stuff happening there's kids being made to hand out to people there's PT going on there's so much there's there's registration happening there's check in there's hand out of stuff there's organizing of tape there's all this there's just just huge logistical things that are happening how much do I know of what's going on next to none next to none and Jamie who runs the master like she knows she knows what the intent is and if she feels like there's a little I'm not 100% on this one I'm not sure she'll be and I call you that looks good right down to win my boss would say hey, jocco here's what I want you to do okay boss let me interpret that does this make sense is this what you really want is this this is this can I turn this on this direction and move a little bit more in the opposite way so I can achieve this result instead all that is based on relationships so developing these relationships is is the most important thing 99.9% of what you do should be from the relationships you have going back to the book there is another key element to leading any exceptional team relationships leaders leadership requires relationships good relationships with people above you below you and beside you in the chain of command are critical for a strong team the better the relationships the more open and effective communication there is the more communication there's the stronger the team will be for example there are times when a boss is driving forward on a less than ideal path that needs to be redirected if you have a good relationship with the boss you can explain tactfully what you see to be errors in their thoughts and ideas as always the approach you used to discuss this is important put the onus on yourself as to why the idea doesn't make sense for example you know boss this is who I am the biggest takeaway from that because most of the people listening just like me aren't seals and art the thing that you said that I think is the most important of all that is the thing about frame of mind because what happens in the circumstances and all you can't control any of those things but everybody is going to be exposed to some things in their life and if you have the right frame of mind you can actually learn from it you were talking about being in high school it isn't just that you had different groups of friends if you're like me which I think you were even in high school you were looking and saying I can see the glide path for that group it's not guaranteed but if they keep down this road I could tell in high school where these different groups were likely going to go some appealed to me, some did not appealed to me and even in high school if you have the right frame of mind you can actually start to learn the biggest problem with that is right you don't we need to what as human beings there needs to be some discrepancy for us to notice it right we need to there's some contrast there was a big enough contrast that even my dumbass at whatever 22 or 23 years old went oh I see what's going on I see what's going on and that second that second platoon commander the good one that's actually the seed that started in my mind of oh he's an officer he was enlisted like me I'm enlisted like he was maybe I could become an officer just like this when I wouldn't even imagine that it wasn't even something that I thought I wasn't like and then we ended up with the most humble and knowledgeable and square the way platoon commander and the attitude that we had with the arrogant guy we would I don't think we sabotaged on a regular basis but there was like subcont, like we'd be doing a mission a training mission that he had forced his planned out our throat we didn't want that thing to succeed we wanted to prove him wrong that was always a conscious thing I think most of the time it was subconscious but no doubt we didn't want to follow him and think about how disturbing that is you're in a seal platoon and the platoon commander there's not one single guy in the entire platoon that actually wants to follow that guy and this is the frame of my thing I had to trace this back You don't need to elevate the statue everybody knows who the boss is the chain of commanders understood everybody's got that hierarchy What you actually need to do is look for ways to break down those barriers and just have them recognize all that's got cares about us winning That's all he cares about and by behavior after behavior after behavior eventually you either do it or you're not and if you're doing it people are gonna get on board if you're not you're going to fail no matter what you do and people are gonna see that on my way Smell it on you This continues on it is obvious that building a trustworthy relationship with your superiors is important But how do you do that one of the simplest ways is obvious but often gets overlooked that is performance Your boss expects you to complete certain tasks so complete them do them on time on budget and with a little as little drama as possible get the mission done This includes doing things you might not be 100% in agreement with I did this throughout my career and it always served me well Boss wants me to fill out semester paper work cool. and then I get into the laws of combat and the principles of leadership and pretty pretty straightforward like a review you know cover move simple prioritized next you and the central is coming up I'll tell you what though as I'm right not down it's interesting because now you know we've traveled the world we've taught these principles over and over again to people and teams and organizations of every imaginable kind and it's these things apply the biggest question I get when I'm when we're working is how do you apply they understand what they mean and you can say those words and they can define them and explain them and the question people always have is how do I apply this and those those three the stories of those three pletunes and then when you kind of basically you review and you know it's really what sets the stage for how these where these fit and how to look for where they fit I mean even that story about the pletune commander of whether or not you should have made the call and especially when you and then when you say like we're gonna build trust with the boss It's like man that's like I have no argument to that like when I'm saying I don't want to build trust with the boss Unless you just some like anti team member, you know and I think that the way people learn things for the first time it leaves a mark on people and it's very hard to change their minds so you gotta be careful with that there's probably so is there a bias around that echo trails like an official bias like the way you learn something for the first time are you always biased towards thinking that's correct is that an official type of bias but it's very possible possible bias I think that's really hard to undo really hard to undo I saw that all throughout my career and a whole bunch not just in flying a whole bunch of different things people route their heads around that and I was super lucky again see that's talking about lack a lot so I was a priori listed guy when I was an assistant platoon commander the only person in my platoon at seal team two that had more experience than me was the platoon chief who is another guy from team one that we kind of grew up together in the teams he was he was a little bit more he'd been in the teams a little bit longer than me but not too much longer so we were like the experience the guys when I was a platoon commander same thing like I was when my platoon chief had been in for probably an extra six months longer than me but after that it was just a bunch of you know basically guys that had been for six years we'd been in for 13 or 14 done anyone else a task commander right the front facing juggle they don't understand the backside and what's going on behind the in the rear facing That type of hyper aggressive take no prisoners mentality is certainly simple and straightforward Which is often the kind of leadership advice that people expect from me and what they want to hear Because that attitude is so simple and straightforward it hardly seems it could fail and often that attitude doesn't fail At least not at first A heavy handed and hostile approach usually works for a little while you may be able to budget people into doing what you want them to do for a day or two maybe a week Maybe even a solid few months perhaps you can force a couple projects to completion through ruthless and aggressive offense But those successes will be short lived as you trash relationships burn bridges and leave scorched earth in your wake You will soon look up and realize you are done you have destroyed everything for short term gain you have nothing left That last part is so important the chain of command actually works and you can utilize the chain of command all you want and you can get things done I can just force the outcome I can if I am in charge of you by rank or position or title I can force that The lesson that needs to take with that will work until it doesn't My boss will know that I am the person who can make things happen and more important I gain cloud with the boss This is the opposite of the subordinate who complains and objects or always thinks he has a better way to do things he loses influence with the boss every time he opens his mouth Any objection from that subordinate is seen by the boss as another typical excuse the more you talk the less people listen On the other hand when I do what needs to be done The boss trust that I can make things happen the boss also knows that if I do raise an objection It is likely to be founded on solid facts that should be considered Since I get things done and don't constantly voice my objections the boss actually listens I always utilize this strategy with my senior leadership and it worked well I was an idiot in high school and I didn't have the right frame of mind I can't control those lessons but if you actually have just enough a tiny bit of willingness to just kind of pay attention you don't have to be in the seal team to get these same lessons they're all out there in life everywhere and that would be people who are always asking if you could go back and do it over again what would you change I usually say nothing I actually would try to tell young they'd work you're frame of mind just pay a little more attention when it's going to run you because it's all out there even in high school, it's all there man I got asked this the other day I was getting interviewed or something and I've been asked it before and it's a similar kind of concept the question was like what was the moment where this all kind of came together oh my people are all different and the way I treat this one guy and relate to this one guy doesn't work in every situation and when you talk about that too is when you look at other people's plans because egos always the biggest issue with every client we work with it's always egos at the top and the question that's best how important is this plan to that other person because if that other person has to do this plan the worst thing you can do is fight them on the plant no matter whatever the quality of the plan is and even having the humility of saying hey in this situation it isn't even about what is the best plan it's what's the best way to implement the plan because if I prove that I'm right and my plan is better and this guy has to admit to me in act with us so good times how up when I got done with buzz I checked into sealed team one it was fired up as all of us were who were checking into that sacred place of war heroes and legends the master chief of the command the highest ranking and listed seal at team one welcome to support no one here cares that you made it through buzz we all did it doesn't mean anything here you have to prove yourself and earn your try it so keep your mouth shut your ears open and don't forget anything and be on time any questions the try it was the golden signal worn on the uniform which indicates you are sealed to receive our try we had to go through a six month probationary period and then go through a written and oral review board with the senior and listed personnel at the team we were all nervous about that and the master chief provided no comfort whatsoever in the early 90s and again I'm skipping through chunks of the book just to kind of get to the meat in the early 90s when I got to sealed team one the training progression was different from how it is now back then once on board a team you were eventually assigned to a sealed platoon this is where you would actually learn to be a seal up until that point the training wasn't tackle and buzz you don't learn very much about the actual job of being a seal you learn how to be called wet and tired and miserable and not to complain about any of it no this is not much better than yours and bones forced them to do it right there and not only during that plan they might not do their best but in the future you're like the guy who's like all you just think your plan is better so even in the future he might not have your back is much why would you even why are you even going to put forth that effort echo if when you brought me a plan that was a level nine yeah good plan a good plan yeah that's kind of the point there where like you got to be careful with that kind of stuff where like if if I'm trying to build a relationship like probably can see what you're doing you know, Like because again, this is part of that to be careful with it. but you may be not sabotage but by just doing nothing when actually what you need them is to do the exact opposite that which is totally being the game so even as you read those reviews as first three to set the stage and even the review of eo and that kind of manker how many times you read those books read it in this context because it changes in your mind how they apply to the world that you care about which is your world which doesn't have to be the seal teams it's not what this is about it just that's the backdrop it's actually work work fits in whatever world that you're in not to mention the future by the way like you know how you if you have a better plan they have a good plan you have a better you have a level 10 this guy's a level nine but I usually wasn't and my grades reflected that I was average across the board coming out strong coming out strong average across the board that's where we're at and this is where it kind of ties in so even from a young age I needed to get others with more talent and more skill to do what I needed them to do I needed to lead of course I didn't think of it as leadership I just thought I was making things happen in contributing by getting people to work together to support one another as we moved toward a common mission now maybe that mission was building a fort in the woods or planning a mock military assault with squirt guns on another group of friends and this is real like I remember when I was when it was time to build a fort when it was time to organize an assault on some other group I do like I hate this is what we need to do but I had more time you're about to have more time I had more experience and those experiences early on opened up and put me in the right frame of mind luckily so what what I do then in this in this book I go through these first three seal ptons which are very there's this kind of does this happen I guess it happens and everything when you learn something for the first time but this happens and the teams all the time the way people learn something for the first time is the way they think it's correct forever for sure and it takes like a beat down to get it out of them but how do we actually fire these principles how do we execute them all right next section and again I know we didn't coordinate about which sections to talk about and there's a ton of sections I just try to I just kind of was going through going on this one this one would be good but skipping here this one is called the power of relationships the power relationships and this is one of those things one of those things you hear all the time right relationships are important but like the rest of the new guys I listened and learned every single day in my first three platoons I learned a few key concepts that stuck with me for the rest of my career and they were also the base upon which I built most of the principles I ended up teaching to the rest of the seal teams and eventually to companies businesses and organizations around the globe these are examples of the lucky moments I referred to earlier I was in the right place at the right time with the right frame of mind to learn what I did then I was lucky enough to have it other experiences to overlay what I had learned and slowly subconsciously begin to formulate a system of leadership that I was then lucky enough to apply on one of the most challenging battlefields in the world the Battle of Amadi in the summer of 2006 when I returned from that deployment I took over the training for the West Coast seal teams where I formalized, codified and transcribed what I had learned but the roots of everything I eventually wrote down originated in a very non-traditional but highly effective learning environment the seal platoon so that's the opening kind of a little what is it? yeah it's interesting how as I reflect back just being on the outside gave me maybe the initial idea of being detached and looking at things from a different perspective only because I wasn't quite one of those any of those groups interesting alright continuing on joining the Navy was still the best thing I could have done he gave me a blank slate and clear direction known in the Navy care that I didn't have the best grades in high school it didn't matter that I wasn't the best athlete known as concerned about where I was from what my parents did or anything else about my history they shaved my head gave me a uniform and told me what I needed to do to be successful make your bed like this soldier underwear like that polish your boom knockers until they look like mirrors if you could follow the rules and do what you told to do you'd be putting a leadership position I did follow the rules and I kind of had to do a little bit of an explanation here in the beginning of the book just to explain sort of what's going on here who I am what well it goes like this who am I to try and teach leaders how to lead where did I learn leadership much of my leadership education was luck I say luck because there were a few fortunate coincidences that gave me the right frame of mind the right teachers and the right opportunities to learn one of the ways I was lucky and that made me focus on leadership was the fact that I wasn't really that naturally talented at anything in particular as a little kid I wasn't the fastest or strongest or smartest I was never great at shooting a basketball kicking a soccer ball or throwing a baseball I didn't win any races or have a shelf of trophies and ribbons from sports my report card was never exceptional either I'm not a done well in a class if I was interested but you were actually lucky that your boss in that very first story didn't crush you and just destroy it and wipe out the opportunity to learn that lesson when you made that call because some bosses could have just worn you down and put you in a position you're actually lucky that on that second platoon that mutiny story you're actually lucky in some ways that they let you know that we don't do this there's other layers of things in there we had a bad boss and a good boss that you had the frame of mind and we keep saying that over and over again and you didn't get validated like You ever you're fine people when people say, I'm I'm learning, you know, like almost like it's like almost like a cop out for their bad behavior.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocoponcast number two ten with echo Charles and me jocowilling
[00:00:05] Good evening echo good evening and also joining us tonight is
[00:00:10] Dave Burke
[00:00:12] Good evening Dave. Good evening
[00:00:14] and the last time that Dave was on we discussed
[00:00:18] Marine Corps doctrinal publication
[00:00:21] three-taque one tactics
[00:00:24] which starts with a line that reads
[00:00:27] this publication is about winning in combat
[00:00:33] which isn't an outstanding way to start off any publication of any kind and we actually ended up covering that manual on a series of four-prongcast
[00:00:40] 187-188-189 and 190
[00:00:45] and that definitely is an outstanding manual
[00:00:51] when it comes to winning in combat for sure it explains the concepts
[00:00:55] it reveals the underlying philosophies
[00:01:00] and there are other doctrinal publications
[00:01:04] from the Marine Corps on operations and on strategy and on campaigning
[00:01:09] and there's manuals on intelligence and expeditionary operations and logistics and planning and command and control
[00:01:16] there's a manual on the Marine rifle squad
[00:01:25] they got manuals for everything there's even a Marine Corps warfighting publication of three-taque 15.1
[00:01:33] called machine guns and machine gun gunnery
[00:01:39] which is a four-hundred and six-page manual by the way
[00:01:43] four-hundred and six-page manual
[00:01:47] this is the manual where you learn that quote
[00:01:51] this machine gun supports both the offense and defense it provides the heavy volume of close accurate and continuous fire support necessary to suppress and destroy enemy fortifications, vehicles and personnel in support of an attack
[00:02:06] the long range close defensive and final protective fires
[00:02:10] delivered by this gun forming integral part of the units defensive fires
[00:02:16] so they're going deep
[00:02:20] on machine guns and machine gun gunnery
[00:02:24] is there a title of any book in the world that has gun in it more times I don't know of any
[00:02:30] it also shows you exactly how to fire from the bipod with a 240 Gulf
[00:02:37] so firing from the bipod when firing from the bipod the rear sight is raised a assume a prone position behind the gun with the right shoulder into the weapon
[00:02:46] the right hand grasps the pistol grip and manipulates the trigger
[00:02:50] place the left hand on the comb of the stock palm down with the cheek resting lightly against the cover and or the left hand
[00:02:58] both hands exert a firm steady pressure to the rear during aiming and firing
[00:03:03] on like the tripod the bipod mount is relatively unstable elbows and upper torso may move
[00:03:10] a good sight picture must be regained before firing each burst
[00:03:17] so we're getting detailed there's no there's not much room for interpretation
[00:03:22] we're getting the instruction that we need by the way the army also has a manual for machine gunners
[00:03:26] the FM3 attack 22.68 crew served machine gun which doesn't actually cover the 50 cow
[00:03:34] it's got another manual for that doesn't cover the mod do's but it's still 430 pages long
[00:03:43] so they are not playing around and by the way we salute all the machine gunners out there
[00:03:50] for what you do laying down that suppressive fire and we understand that manuals get granular
[00:03:59] and show us how to do a specific job
[00:04:04] now the military does have leadership manuals as well and we've covered a bunch of them and they are solid
[00:04:11] and explaining some of the principles of leadership but I always wanted something that was more granular
[00:04:20] more detailed, more specific 4-metership something that explained the actual strategies and tactics
[00:04:29] to be used when leading people the little maneuvers that you make up and down the chain of command
[00:04:35] and so I wrote a book and it's called leadership strategy and tactics field manual
[00:04:44] and it is released January 14th, 2020 and I wanted to review it for you all
[00:04:51] read as it comes out to highlight what the book is, how you can use it
[00:04:56] and what the book will do for you as a leader and since I work with Dave all the time
[00:05:02] first in the battle of Romani and now Ed echelon from the podcast
[00:05:08] multiple times since he listens to the podcast
[00:05:13] and since he was the first person that I gave this book to to read I figured it made sense to have him on here
[00:05:18] so he could help me introduce the book to the world so Dave thanks for coming on man
[00:05:23] you got a couple versions, you got the early versions
[00:05:27] yeah I was just I was just spilling thoughts on the page like this this this this
[00:05:36] and then I started to formulate them into categories and eventually turned them into this
[00:05:43] so leadership strategy and tactics, where do you go to the book
[00:05:47] and I kind of had to do a little bit of an explanation here in the beginning of the book
[00:05:51] just to explain sort of what's going on here who I am what well it goes like this
[00:05:59] who am I to try and teach leaders how to lead where did I learn leadership
[00:06:04] much of my leadership education was luck
[00:06:07] I say luck because there were a few fortunate coincidences that gave me the right frame of mind
[00:06:13] the right teachers and the right opportunities to learn
[00:06:16] one of the ways I was lucky and that made me focus on leadership was the fact that I wasn't really that naturally talented
[00:06:25] at anything in particular
[00:06:27] as a little kid I wasn't the fastest or strongest or smartest
[00:06:31] I was never great at shooting a basketball kicking a soccer ball or throwing a baseball
[00:06:35] I didn't win any races or have a shelf of trophies and ribbons from sports
[00:06:40] my report card was never exceptional either
[00:06:42] I'm not a done well in a class if I was interested but I usually wasn't
[00:06:48] and my grades reflected that I was average across the board
[00:06:54] coming out strong
[00:06:56] coming out strong average across the board that's where we're at
[00:07:01] and this is where it kind of ties in so even from a young age I needed to get others
[00:07:06] with more talent and more skill to do what I needed them to do I needed to lead
[00:07:10] of course I didn't think of it as leadership
[00:07:13] I just thought I was making things happen in contributing
[00:07:16] by getting people to work together to support one another
[00:07:20] as we moved toward a common mission
[00:07:22] now maybe that mission
[00:07:24] was building a fort in the woods
[00:07:27] or planning a mock military assault with squirt guns on another group of friends
[00:07:32] and this is real like I remember
[00:07:36] when I was when it was time to build a fort
[00:07:38] when it was time to organize an assault on some other group
[00:07:43] I do like I hate this is what we need to do
[00:07:46] and that's because I knew that little Johnny could run faster than me
[00:07:50] I knew that Billy could scale that wall better than I could
[00:07:54] but I could take a step back and say okay this is how we should do it
[00:07:58] this would be the best way to build this fort this is what we need to do
[00:08:01] so whatever the task was I generally found myself giving direction to people
[00:08:05] who were stronger faster or otherwise more capable than I was
[00:08:09] that seemed to be where I could help the most
[00:08:12] and the one area in which I could perform with a higher level of competency
[00:08:16] I also always had a rebellious streak
[00:08:19] which I think I'll make everyone else
[00:08:22] well I shouldn't say that
[00:08:24] I think many people because
[00:08:26] how much of a rebellious streak the Kyle Carpenter have
[00:08:29] like you didn't have much of a rebellious streak
[00:08:32] I mean you had enough to join the Marine Corps
[00:08:33] but when you listened to him he was like
[00:08:36] he wasn't looking to rebel he was just on the path from day one
[00:08:41] kind of got it
[00:08:43] so maybe it's not every kid
[00:08:45] but me yeah I had a rebellious streak
[00:08:49] and maybe it was another way for me to leave a mark
[00:08:51] I wouldn't conform to the way other kids acted
[00:08:55] I acted differently
[00:08:56] listen to hard core heavy metal music and add a hard core attitude about things
[00:09:00] that attitude set me apart from the pack
[00:09:04] once I was on the outside of the normal kids
[00:09:07] I was detached from them so I observed
[00:09:09] looking in from the outside I garnered a better understanding of the people I was watching
[00:09:14] I saw their emotions there clicks and their drama unfold from a detached position I learned
[00:09:19] so that's an interesting point too
[00:09:22] that I thought about while I was putting this together
[00:09:25] I remember
[00:09:26] okay so you know you got the kids movie reference echo Charles breakfast club
[00:09:32] so you got the stereotypical kids right the jock
[00:09:35] the rebel guy
[00:09:38] the preppy or the popular girl
[00:09:42] the nerd
[00:09:44] and then what was the black hair to grow considered
[00:09:48] like a recluse like a hermit like outcast
[00:09:51] artsy right give me artsy
[00:09:53] arty girl yeah yeah actually she was arty because remember she drew that picture of the snow cabin
[00:09:59] and then she made her dad made her dad a little bit
[00:10:02] okay so artsy joc princess popular nerd
[00:10:08] and kind of stereotypical rebel
[00:10:11] so at my school like yeah we had all those kids right
[00:10:15] and I really wasn't in any of those groups
[00:10:17] you know saying so I kind of had I kind of had friends in each one of those groups
[00:10:23] which is kind of weird in its own right I was friends with some of the popular kids
[00:10:27] I was friends with some of the burn out I was friends with some of the metal heads
[00:10:30] I was friends with some of the prep like I was kind of friends had a couple of friends
[00:10:33] but I wasn't really
[00:10:34] considered to be in any of those groups
[00:10:38] which meant
[00:10:40] I was actually watching them
[00:10:42] you know even from a young age I was going oh yeah I see how the burn outs are
[00:10:48] I see how their little hierarchy is you know
[00:10:52] which is different but it it allowed me to kind of like look and learn
[00:10:58] strange no man that makes it perfect sense you know I had a similar experience in high school
[00:11:03] look first just real quick that active rebellion join in the military is an active rebellion
[00:11:07] oh yeah definitely was for me
[00:11:08] it's just a great dude he's just a good guy
[00:11:12] but anybody that does that is doing something that's totally countered
[00:11:15] but 99% of the world is doing there's no question about that
[00:11:18] yeah well yeah I mean his mom was definitely against it
[00:11:23] and yet and but that's the cool thing about Kyle is like he
[00:11:29] talked them through it you know he eventually was like good enough to be like hey
[00:11:33] this is what I really want to do and he remember he went to he went to college to kind of
[00:11:38] say okay I'll let me try college and then you know he he moving that direction
[00:11:44] I actually I joined the Navy I didn't even tell my parents I just like joined
[00:11:49] yeah I told actually and I have I noticed when I wrote this I was like
[00:11:56] reading a little section I said like oh I was talking my dad
[00:11:59] and I had already joined the Navy when I told my dad I was I said yeah I
[00:12:04] by the way I joined the Navy and I think he was just kind of stoked that I was
[00:12:08] not gonna go to jail or just being idiot for the rest of my life
[00:12:13] so yeah it's interesting how as I reflect back just being on the outside
[00:12:19] gave me maybe the initial idea of being detached and looking at things
[00:12:25] from a different perspective only because I wasn't quite one of those any of those
[00:12:30] groups interesting alright continuing on joining the Navy
[00:12:37] was still the best thing I could have done he gave me a blank slate and clear
[00:12:42] direction known in the Navy care that I didn't have the best grades in high school
[00:12:45] it didn't matter that I wasn't the best athlete known as concerned about
[00:12:48] where I was from what my parents did or anything else about my history
[00:12:50] they shaved my head gave me a uniform and told me what I needed to do to be successful
[00:12:55] make your bed like this soldier underwear like that polish your boom
[00:12:59] knockers until they look like mirrors if you could follow the rules and do what you
[00:13:02] told to do you'd be putting a leadership position
[00:13:05] I did follow the rules and I did what I was told to do and it paid off and I
[00:13:09] was made a squad leader in boot camp
[00:13:11] what does that mean technically nothing
[00:13:15] but it meant a lot to me at the time
[00:13:17] I mean think about it a squad leader in Navy boot camp
[00:13:22] that that is a very minimal leadership role
[00:13:27] but for me at that time it was a role
[00:13:32] one of the three squads I mean I think there was more I think there was like six squads
[00:13:37] because we had a big open bay barracks and I think there was three squads on each side
[00:13:41] like because you were basically grouped by your bed your bunk beds
[00:13:44] and so but yeah you needed a squad leader so I probably had I don't know
[00:13:50] 15 people in my squad
[00:13:53] and there was another guy who was from New England and he was a wrestler
[00:13:58] and he was going to be a seal and he ended up being a seal he's an awesome guy
[00:14:02] but he ended up being the master in arms because he had been a college
[00:14:07] and so he was and then our
[00:14:09] the guy that was the recruit chief petty officer the RCPO
[00:14:15] so like the senior of all of the recruits
[00:14:21] this guy was he had turned down his commission or something like that
[00:14:27] so he did ROTC for four years the Navy paid for four years of college
[00:14:32] and he said I don't want to get a commission and they said cool you're going to be in the list of guy for two years
[00:14:35] and that's what he did which which is a really
[00:14:39] look I don't want to say it's a bad call but that seems like a bad call for me
[00:14:44] he got his commission
[00:14:47] or he was ready to get his commission
[00:14:49] now who knows because everyone in boot camp lies to each other when it comes to like you know you meet all these guys that were out just there
[00:14:55] I was just about to be you know got just got drafted by whatever the Miami dolphins
[00:15:01] I really wanted to serve so I've been listed in the Navy looking at that guy thinking wow
[00:15:07] what position were you going to play at 117 pounds
[00:15:10] but yes I'm not sure if my RCPO was actually
[00:15:14] like maybe he got in trouble right you go to four years of college you're supposed to get your commission and you get a DUI or something
[00:15:20] and then they'll say you're not going to commission but you do owe us two years of enlistment
[00:15:24] so he was there he was a square to a guy never I don't remember what happened to him
[00:15:27] but the master of arms who is a total total stud great guy awesome rest of the restaurant college
[00:15:33] and he was the master of arms and then I
[00:15:36] with no experience was a squad leader so my first
[00:15:40] my first leadership role
[00:15:44] and I was stoked
[00:15:45] dude totally that's something
[00:15:48] yeah
[00:15:49] yeah
[00:15:53] Buds was the same way for me I still wasn't great and any particular skill not the best runner or swimmer not great at the obstacle course
[00:16:01] but I could do what I was told I could play the game
[00:16:04] and I wasn't going to quit some people say that everyone thinks about quitting during Buds I never did not for a second
[00:16:10] the that thought never crossed my mind
[00:16:12] hell week a five day block of continuous physical training with almost no sleep whatsoever and which causes the highest number of people to quit
[00:16:20] was actually relaxing for me
[00:16:22] because during hell week nothing is timed
[00:16:25] during all other facets of Buds students are constantly on the clock time runs swims and obstacle course evolution stay place every day
[00:16:33] if you miss the time and fail one of them you are on the bubble and if you fail again you're out
[00:16:37] that's what it was when I went through
[00:16:39] it was stressful
[00:16:40] but during hell week nothing was timed you just had to keep going you just had to not quit and for me
[00:16:47] that was the easy part
[00:16:50] pre straight forward
[00:16:52] that's a good skill to have it's like the other thing genetically I don't have to sleep a lot
[00:16:57] and that is that was I picked a perfect career for that
[00:17:02] like I'm saying I wasn't good anything which is true not the best runner middle the pack run or middle the pack swimmer
[00:17:08] middle the pack on the off score course
[00:17:11] but and and I didn't really think about the not sleeping thing
[00:17:15] but that is something that I had and I didn't really realize it at that time
[00:17:20] but when I got done with hell week
[00:17:22] I remember my roommates
[00:17:25] were for beat up you know
[00:17:28] and tired and I remember I remember I slept for you know like a solid eight hours or something
[00:17:33] and I got up and I was doing eight count body builders know
[00:17:36] I was like I'm like I'm rocking all the different like good
[00:17:39] yeah so good times
[00:17:42] how up
[00:17:44] when I got done with buzz I checked into sealed team one
[00:17:47] it was fired up as all of us were who were checking into that sacred place of war heroes and legends
[00:17:53] the master chief of the command the highest ranking and listed seal at team one welcome to support
[00:17:58] no one here cares that you made it through buzz we all did it doesn't mean anything here
[00:18:02] you have to prove yourself and earn your try it
[00:18:06] so keep your mouth shut your ears open and don't forget anything and be on time
[00:18:10] any questions
[00:18:12] the try it was the golden signal worn on the uniform which indicates you are sealed to receive our try
[00:18:16] we had to go through a six month probationary period and then go through a written and oral review board
[00:18:21] with the senior and listed personnel at the team we were all nervous about that and the master chief provided no comfort whatsoever
[00:18:26] in the early 90s and again I'm skipping through chunks of the book just to kind of get to the meat
[00:18:32] in the early 90s when I got to sealed team one the training progression was different from how it is now back then
[00:18:38] once on board a team you were eventually assigned to a sealed platoon
[00:18:41] this is where you would actually learn to be a seal up until that point
[00:18:45] the training wasn't tackle and buzz you don't learn very much about the actual job of being a seal you learn how to be called wet and tired and miserable
[00:18:51] and not to complain about any of it but you don't learn any of the job skills that make you into professional operator
[00:18:57] those skills were taught to you once you were in a sealed platoon
[00:19:01] there you learned through a firehouse there was so much knowledge needed so many skills to develop so many tactics to understand
[00:19:08] you felt as if you'd never know it all
[00:19:10] but like the rest of the new guys I listened and learned every single day in my first three platoons I learned a few key concepts that stuck with me for the rest of my career
[00:19:21] and they were also the base upon which I built most of the principles I ended up teaching to the rest of the seal teams
[00:19:28] and eventually to companies businesses and organizations around the globe these are examples of the lucky moments I referred to earlier
[00:19:35] I was in the right place at the right time with the right frame of mind to learn what I did
[00:19:41] then I was lucky enough to have it other experiences to overlay what I had learned
[00:19:46] and slowly subconsciously begin to formulate a system of leadership that I was then lucky enough to apply
[00:19:53] on one of the most challenging battlefields in the world the Battle of Amadi in the summer of 2006
[00:19:58] when I returned from that deployment
[00:20:00] I took over the training for the West Coast seal teams where I formalized, codified and transcribed what I had learned
[00:20:08] but the roots of everything I eventually wrote down originated in a very non-traditional
[00:20:14] but highly effective learning environment
[00:20:17] the seal platoon
[00:20:21] so that's the opening kind of a little
[00:20:26] what is it? an excerpts of the opening of the book just to kind of if people have no idea who I am
[00:20:32] hey this is who I am
[00:20:34] the biggest takeaway from that because most of the people listening just like me aren't seals and art
[00:20:40] the thing that you said that I think is the most important of all that is the thing about frame of mind
[00:20:46] because what happens in the circumstances and all you can't control any of those things
[00:20:50] but everybody is going to be exposed to some things in their life
[00:20:53] and if you have the right frame of mind you can actually learn from it
[00:20:57] you were talking about being in high school it isn't just that you had different groups of friends
[00:21:01] if you're like me which I think you were even in high school you were looking and saying
[00:21:05] I can see the glide path for that group
[00:21:07] it's not guaranteed but if they keep down this road
[00:21:10] I could tell in high school where these different groups were likely going to go
[00:21:13] some appealed to me, some did not appealed to me
[00:21:16] and even in high school if you have the right frame of mind
[00:21:18] you can actually start to learn the biggest problem with that is
[00:21:20] I was an idiot in high school
[00:21:24] and I didn't have the right frame of mind
[00:21:26] I can't control those lessons but if you actually have just enough a tiny bit of willingness to just kind of pay attention
[00:21:32] you don't have to be in the seal team to get these same lessons
[00:21:35] they're all out there in life everywhere
[00:21:37] and that would be people who are always asking if you could go back and do it over again what would you change
[00:21:42] I usually say nothing
[00:21:44] I actually would try to tell young they'd work
[00:21:46] you're frame of mind just pay a little more attention when it's going to run you because it's all out there
[00:21:52] even in high school, it's all there man
[00:21:54] I got asked this the other day I was getting interviewed or something
[00:21:58] and I've been asked it before
[00:22:01] and it's a similar kind of concept
[00:22:04] the question was like what was the moment
[00:22:08] where this all kind of came together
[00:22:11] and I kind of wanted to give a dramatic
[00:22:16] you know a dramatic answer, a poignant answer
[00:22:20] I remember it was a rainy day
[00:22:23] I was like no, the every one of these things is a slow build
[00:22:28] and like you don't even know
[00:22:32] you don't have the right frame of mind, right?
[00:22:35] you don't have the right frame of mind to say oh this is what's happening right now
[00:22:37] but you can look back that's what I'm doing now is you know writing that forward
[00:22:42] looking back on my life saying how did I where did I come to these conclusions
[00:22:46] because at some point I definitely did at some point I recognize these things
[00:22:50] but it was a slow I shouldn't say at some point over time I got to a point
[00:22:55] I arrived at a point
[00:22:57] now that is true when when I
[00:23:01] and you've heard me tell the story of taking over the training for the West Coast
[00:23:03] the Old Testament and I went out on that training operation
[00:23:07] as a told disaster and I went back to my barracks room that night
[00:23:10] and wrote down the four walls combat that's it right there like that was what happened
[00:23:14] but when I wrote down the four walls combat for the first time
[00:23:18] I wasn't trying to figure them out
[00:23:21] I wasn't trying to see what they were
[00:23:25] I knew what they were and I just had to write them down
[00:23:28] I had learned them over and over again from a bunch of different people
[00:23:29] and a bunch of different ways and so now it was okay
[00:23:33] cool how can I explain these to the rest of these guys that are going to be coming through this training
[00:23:38] where they can take them in an implemented quickly
[00:23:41] so unfortunately there's no point now my curiosity is
[00:23:46] when someone gets fed this information now right
[00:23:51] when someone that's at the basic school in the Marine Corps
[00:23:53] listens to the podcast that we did that series of podcasts and goes
[00:23:59] is that do they get just a
[00:24:02] a hyper move forward because I look at it and think man if I would have had this podcast
[00:24:09] when I was younger I'd been a million times in a better position
[00:24:14] is that do people get a hyper boost do you think?
[00:24:18] I bet you some people do
[00:24:20] but I still think that you're fighting against some of the human nature that
[00:24:24] I'm not even convinced that Dave Burke in a time machine
[00:24:28] that still have the maturity
[00:24:30] even being told exactly how this could work in your favor
[00:24:33] to have the frame of mind to listen to it
[00:24:36] but there are undoubtedly some folks I guarantee that are seeing this and go to Holy Crap
[00:24:42] without this my life would be different and there's so a whole bunch of people that
[00:24:45] you can hit it over the head and they're knocking absorbent that they have their own timelines
[00:24:50] but you can see when people get dialed in and in the military I mean those culminating events
[00:24:55] like you're just talking about you get a couple of them in your career you get maybe two or three
[00:25:00] if you're lucky some people get one lot of people don't get any
[00:25:03] I'm in touch with a pretty good number of guys going through the basic school and social media
[00:25:09] and they are so much more dialed in than I ever was so much more dialed in
[00:25:13] and I think that's a combination of things I started in the peace sign
[00:25:18] I think it's a different viewpoint and they started in Warfoot at wartime Marine Corps
[00:25:22] but those kids seem to be way more dialed in and they're absorbing this and paying attention to this
[00:25:28] Jason Gardner at some point was saying I think it was the one who was on the podcast
[00:25:33] he was saying like hey he started adjusting he was a master chief
[00:25:38] he was adjusting he was listening to the podcast and he was like yep
[00:25:40] he was going on he was going on he's like he and so his mind was open enough
[00:25:45] you know it reminds me my I was
[00:25:48] I don't know what age I was
[00:25:51] but I wanted to get a new bike and I was at that age
[00:25:55] where you know I grew up in a small town and if you were going to ride somewhere it was a
[00:25:59] it was work right it wasn't it wasn't it was more than a three minute bike ride
[00:26:04] you know and I think I had saved up whatever 70 bucks or something and I asked my dad
[00:26:12] hey I really need a new bike can you can you can we split the cost or whatever
[00:26:18] and he says okay you know so cool because what does that mean for him means it doesn't have to worry about driving around
[00:26:23] it means basically I'll leave him alone
[00:26:26] so I go and you know we go to the bike store
[00:26:29] and I go to get the bike and I'm going to get a BMX bike and I'm at that age
[00:26:35] where I could get a 10 speed so that it was that point I got never even had speeds before
[00:26:41] but all of a sudden I'm old enough so I was probably 12 or something where I could get a 10 speed
[00:26:46] you know with the curve down handlebars
[00:26:49] and my dad's they can you know you got a bike 3, 4, 6 miles 5 miles whatever you're going to want this 10 speed
[00:26:55] and of course I'm like no I want this BMX bike so we end he hands up I mean he's
[00:27:02] you can see looking back at the conversation he's just looking at me saying thank you to himself
[00:27:08] you're an idiot you're going to want this bike and I said no I definitely want this BMX bike
[00:27:12] so I'm going to go off road or whatever
[00:27:15] and sure enough we get the BMX bike and you know two days later after my fourth you know 6 mile bike ride into town
[00:27:23] I'm thinking I wanted that Ted speed so this is the problem with life
[00:27:31] the problem with life is that there are certain lessons
[00:27:35] that only life can teach you
[00:27:38] now what I hope is like when you give me that feedback about the basics school like what I hope is you go okay
[00:27:44] yeah there's there's some
[00:27:46] and I get the same thing guys in the teams right now the young jails and the teams I get army I mean we have all kinds of army guys
[00:27:55] even in Australia that was cool a bunch of army
[00:27:58] a bunch of army guys that were coming up saying hey this is what I'm doing thank you yep learn this learn that so
[00:28:05] I think you can make more rapid progress
[00:28:09] if you have the right frame of mind going in without a doubt
[00:28:12] and there's more out there now than there was to be able to figure that out sooner
[00:28:17] and there are guys and gals out there certainly in the military doing it way sooner than I did
[00:28:22] in the sealed teams when you get done with a job
[00:28:27] like you get done with being an assistant to commander and now you're ready to be good at it
[00:28:32] you're not allowed to do it anymore it's over
[00:28:34] by the time you haven't figured out you're done with it
[00:28:35] yep the platoon commander hey alright I think I've got this dialed now it's over and it's time to become a task commander by the time you feel good about being a task commander
[00:28:44] okay you know I'm sorry and I was super lucky again see that's talking about lack a lot
[00:28:50] so I was a priori listed guy when I was an assistant platoon commander
[00:28:53] the only person in my platoon at seal team two
[00:28:57] that had more experience than me was the platoon chief who is another guy from team one that we kind of grew up together in the teams he was he was a little bit more
[00:29:06] he'd been in the teams a little bit longer than me but not too much longer so we were like the experience the guys
[00:29:11] when I was a platoon commander same thing like I was when my platoon chief had been in for probably an extra six months longer than me
[00:29:20] but after that it was just a bunch of you know basically guys that had been for six years we'd been in for 13 or 14 done
[00:29:25] anyone else a task commander it was like Tony Tony fratty and he had been in for probably two or three years longer than me
[00:29:35] but then after that it was just people that had been in for you know less than half right time and half the amount of experience
[00:29:42] so that's luck you know so when I'm doing a task commander now I'm talking about how I
[00:29:48] was developing my skills even as a task commander
[00:29:52] I had been in for 15 years imagine a normal task commander that's only been in for six years or not I guess they've been in for seven years or eight years
[00:29:59] that's a normal task commander I've been in for 15 I had taught I've been an instructor at sealed team one in the training department
[00:30:07] I've done land warfare trip after land warfare trip I've done CQB trip after CQB trip after CQB trip of talk I taught everything
[00:30:13] and that was when I was when I was a young single guy too I was in the training commander guess what trips I went on all of them all of them all
[00:30:19] I'm like oh you need someone to go out to the desert cool I'm in you need someone to go to this new Mount facility
[00:30:25] and we've never taken a particular guy I'm I'm going no factor so that's why I was so lucky because
[00:30:32] and this is another thing when you're an instructor
[00:30:35] when you're an instructor you're de facto detached so now I'm watching these jails go through and I'm like oh yes guys making all kinds of mistakes here's what because he's all caught up at it
[00:30:44] where's I can see everything because I'm watching him and then I connect the dots oh
[00:30:50] when you can see everything and that effect I was talking to Andrew Paul about this Andrew Paul was going through
[00:30:56] something as a reserve because he's a reserveist and the teams and he was going through some training but he was observing and he's like yeah I could see everything
[00:31:04] I could go to the gap man yes yes that's it that's the mindset you have to have so that's why
[00:31:10] you know I I like to emphasize the fact that I was very lucky
[00:31:16] even the frame of mind that I had wasn't because I was
[00:31:23] advanced
[00:31:26] beyond the other people it was it was I got lucky that I had had a little bit more I wasn't more senior but I had more time
[00:31:32] you're about to have more time I had more experience and those experiences early on opened up and put me in the right frame of mind
[00:31:40] luckily
[00:31:42] so
[00:31:44] what what I do then in this in this book
[00:31:47] I go through these first three seal ptons which are very
[00:31:52] there's this kind of does this happen I guess it happens and everything
[00:31:55] when you learn something for the first time but this happens and the teams all the time the way people learn something for the first time
[00:32:03] is the way they think it's correct forever for sure and it takes like a beat down to get it out of them
[00:32:08] yeah it's this I think it's probably the same everywhere but certainly in aviation too
[00:32:14] when you learn from somebody else because first of all the guy teaching you think is a god because he's teaching you
[00:32:18] you don't know anything about him other than he's the teacher so he must be better than everybody at this
[00:32:22] and when you learn it and you figure out that is the answer forever
[00:32:26] I had a guy I had two guys that were like Vietnam era
[00:32:32] and one of them was saying to do something some all the way
[00:32:37] and I knew it was wrong
[00:32:41] which is crazy to think about right
[00:32:44] but what happened was we were doing what I done to back to back our deployments which is out on a ship with the Marine Corps with the Navy
[00:32:50] and we're doing over the beach all the time
[00:32:53] every operation we did was
[00:32:55] from the ship to the ribs boats from the ribs to Zodiacs from the Zodiacs across the beach
[00:33:00] I mean I did over and over and over and over and over the beachops
[00:33:05] and it's over the beachops or so did you ever do over the beachops?
[00:33:10] they're so ridiculously, they're so ridiculously hard
[00:33:14] I mean everything like you're going to swim in so everything is going to be wet
[00:33:18] all your radios are going to be and this is before we had water proof radio
[00:33:23] so everything has to be water proof properly your weapons are going to get trash
[00:33:26] I mean it's going to be freezing, there's waves
[00:33:29] it makes everything
[00:33:33] I want to give an accurate assessment
[00:33:36] I would say that if you compare to like hey we're going to take a helicopter to this target
[00:33:41] and we're going to land it we're going to patrol in
[00:33:43] compared to we're going to take boats over the beach and swim in
[00:33:45] I think it's probably
[00:33:49] I would say six times harder
[00:33:53] six times harder
[00:33:56] maybe four, maybe four to six times harder
[00:34:00] it's that much harder, I'm thinking about the preparation that you have to do and the worries that you have
[00:34:03] and then where you have a problem like you're let's face it once you're on the ground you're not going to have a problem
[00:34:07] like we got this, you're bringing the boats in
[00:34:11] at night
[00:34:12] you're sending swimmer scouts in
[00:34:15] to go there and signal that the beach I mean you're losing people
[00:34:19] bro it's crazy
[00:34:21] and then you're swimming in there's waves
[00:34:23] your boats can get turned over, your motors can fail
[00:34:26] it's just total, it makes everything so much harder
[00:34:30] so I had this
[00:34:32] Vietnam era guy
[00:34:35] that was saying to do something a certain way
[00:34:38] and I'm not going to get into the taxover
[00:34:39] you're saying to do a thing a certain way
[00:34:42] and I knew that it was wrong because I had just got done with two art but two is right
[00:34:46] I did mission after mission
[00:34:48] and I knew that that was not the right thing to do
[00:34:51] and the other Vietnam guy
[00:34:53] said hey man, he's wrong
[00:34:57] he's wrong
[00:34:59] just play the game a little bit
[00:35:02] and the actual thing that he told me was people don't always remember things right
[00:35:06] he was just being merciful about he wasn't beat a jerk
[00:35:09] he was just like look people don't always remember things right
[00:35:12] so
[00:35:14] but the way you learned something
[00:35:17] in your first scene so this guy probably learned the guy that was telling us to do something a certain way
[00:35:22] probably learned this from somebody somewhere along the way
[00:35:26] and just thought it was the right way to do things
[00:35:28] and I had learned through actual experience
[00:35:31] like hey you do this enough times go over the beach
[00:35:33] go to red beach camp panel ten in the middle of the winter
[00:35:37] when there's a eight foot swell
[00:35:39] and you're getting cleaned out
[00:35:41] you learn and you learn what to do
[00:35:45] and you get good at it
[00:35:47] and I think that the way people learn things for the first time
[00:35:52] it leaves a mark on people
[00:35:54] and it's very hard to change their minds
[00:35:56] so you gotta be careful with that
[00:35:58] there's probably so is there a bias around that echo trails
[00:36:00] like an official bias
[00:36:03] like the way you learn something for the first time
[00:36:06] are you always biased towards thinking that's correct
[00:36:09] is that an official type of bias
[00:36:12] but it's very possible
[00:36:15] possible bias
[00:36:17] I think that's really hard to undo
[00:36:20] really hard to undo
[00:36:22] I saw that all throughout my career and a whole bunch not just in flying a whole bunch of different things
[00:36:25] people route their heads around that and it's really hard to undo that
[00:36:28] yeah
[00:36:30] I saw that all the time
[00:36:32] and I saw it myself
[00:36:34] and as soon as I saw it myself
[00:36:36] I recognized okay
[00:36:38] this is just what you learned and what you learned
[00:36:41] can be wrong
[00:36:42] yeah I mean that's the frame of mind we're talking about before
[00:36:45] you and I and we talk about all the time as the phrase of question everything
[00:36:48] and it's not a question everything to be a jerk about things
[00:36:50] it's actually a question yourself more than anything
[00:36:53] do I not actually understand this away I think I do
[00:36:55] I know something or I have seen something or experience something that maybe I haven't
[00:36:59] and the questioning is what it is actually questioning yourself more than anything is
[00:37:03] what I know actually correct
[00:37:06] and that's I think that's part of the reason why it's so hard to undo that is it
[00:37:09] people are convinced they understand it
[00:37:12] and it's really hard to undo that
[00:37:14] the questioning is yourself of is is right
[00:37:17] and a lot of people don't have the frame of mind to do that
[00:37:20] it's a trap
[00:37:22] it's a trap
[00:37:23] it's a trap
[00:37:24] so
[00:37:26] getting back to the book here I in this part section one foundations
[00:37:29] this is I go through kind of these first
[00:37:32] fundamental three platoons where I learned and the reason I went on this whole
[00:37:36] tangent about learning things for the first time is because this is what I saw
[00:37:40] these certain principles for the first time
[00:37:42] and again it wasn't like I saw the principles like oh there it is I got this
[00:37:46] it was like this is where the seed got planted and it started to grow
[00:37:50] the first platoon
[00:37:51] it was called detach
[00:37:53] it was in my first platoon that I learned the power of being able to detach myself from the chaos
[00:37:58] and may I'm going on take a step back and see what was actually happening
[00:38:02] I was lucky that it happened the way that it did
[00:38:06] so I go through the entire
[00:38:09] I go through the entire
[00:38:11] evolution of me learning that and that is one of those moments
[00:38:14] where I absolutely remembered happening
[00:38:17] so when the if the guy would ask me hey when did you learn to detach
[00:38:19] and it said to ask me probably hey what we need all this stuff come together
[00:38:24] I couldn't answer that but when I learned to detach absolutely
[00:38:27] remember it on an oil rig doing training
[00:38:31] no one's made a call I end up making a call
[00:38:33] my second platoon when I learned in my second platoon
[00:38:36] second platoon had a mutiny
[00:38:40] and I saw the difference between arrogance and I saw humility
[00:38:44] and I saw
[00:38:45] I saw the stark difference
[00:38:50] into what following someone that's arrogant
[00:38:54] was like
[00:38:56] and following someone that is humble as like
[00:38:59] and I ended up with I started with the most arrogant platoon leader
[00:39:04] and we had a mutiny
[00:39:07] and we rebelled against him and he got fired
[00:39:11] and then we ended up with the most humble
[00:39:13] and knowledgeable and square the way platoon commander
[00:39:18] and the attitude that we had with the arrogant guy
[00:39:22] we would
[00:39:24] I don't think we sabotaged
[00:39:27] on a regular basis
[00:39:30] but there was like subcont, like we'd be doing a mission
[00:39:33] a training mission that he had forced his planned out our throat
[00:39:36] we didn't want that thing to succeed
[00:39:38] we wanted to prove him wrong
[00:39:39] that was always a conscious thing I think most of the time it was subconscious
[00:39:44] but no doubt
[00:39:46] we didn't want to follow him
[00:39:48] and think about how disturbing that is
[00:39:52] you're in a seal platoon
[00:39:54] and the platoon commander there's not one single guy in the entire platoon
[00:39:59] that actually wants to follow that guy
[00:40:02] and this is the frame of my thing
[00:40:04] I had to trace this back
[00:40:05] I didn't say we don't like him because he's arrogant I wasn't smart enough to figure that out
[00:40:10] I just knew that we didn't like that guy
[00:40:13] and what made it so clear was when the next guy came in to take his place and he's super humble
[00:40:20] and even then it didn't strike me
[00:40:22] it wasn't until I actually thought about it from a leadership perspective
[00:40:26] why did we hate that guy and wouldn't want to follow
[00:40:29] no one in a seal platoon wants to follow their leader
[00:40:32] that's disgusting
[00:40:35] and then you get another guy
[00:40:37] same group same seal platoon exact same guy
[00:40:40] and you get a humble guy that gives ownership
[00:40:43] and all of a sudden we will do anything
[00:40:46] for this guy and to make sure that we don't let this guy down
[00:40:50] but when people get people to get the book when they read it
[00:40:54] there's more in there when they're in and I won't give it too much way
[00:40:58] but you talk in more details
[00:40:59] there's other things about the lessons that in looking back on
[00:41:04] you can call those luck too
[00:41:06] but you were actually lucky that your boss in that very first story didn't crush you
[00:41:12] and just destroy it and wipe out the opportunity to learn that lesson
[00:41:16] when you made that call
[00:41:18] because some bosses could have just worn you down and put you in a position
[00:41:21] you're actually lucky that on that second platoon
[00:41:25] that mutiny story
[00:41:26] you're actually lucky in some ways that they let you know that
[00:41:31] we don't do this
[00:41:33] there's other layers of things in there
[00:41:36] we had a bad boss and a good boss
[00:41:38] that you had the frame of mind and we keep saying that over and over again
[00:41:42] and you didn't get validated like oh yeah well you have a problem
[00:41:45] just come to me and I'll take care of it and these problems go away
[00:41:48] you go back to work
[00:41:50] and so there's other pieces of there too
[00:41:51] I got to cut you off because you go back to the first example
[00:41:55] and this is why luck is important
[00:41:57] the first example is we're on this oil rig
[00:42:00] and no one's making a decision
[00:42:02] I take a step back and I make a call
[00:42:04] and to your point
[00:42:06] I didn't get crushed
[00:42:08] I didn't get told shut up
[00:42:09] I didn't get told hey new guy
[00:42:11] you need to shut up and do what you're told to do
[00:42:15] the fact that no one did that to me
[00:42:17] made me say oh okay this is a good thing
[00:42:21] so that is luck
[00:42:24] you have a seal putton of 16 guys
[00:42:27] the chances that there's a brow beater
[00:42:29] I didn't even know what the word brow beater was
[00:42:31] that is an actual type of human being right
[00:42:33] I'm surprised it wasn't one in the breakfast club
[00:42:35] a brow beater
[00:42:36] you know what I mean actually I guess there was one of the principles
[00:42:38] what was his name
[00:42:39] echo Charles this is your moment of truth right here
[00:42:42] backer
[00:42:43] it was a
[00:42:46] John a blank
[00:42:48] it wasn't ready
[00:42:50] but he what's a brow beater is a brow beater
[00:42:52] when you give your idea
[00:42:55] and you just they just come at you
[00:42:57] they're just thrown off and they're basically they're just punching you in the face
[00:43:00] you know you come and say
[00:43:02] hey do you think it'd be good to start releasing the podcast on Tuesdays
[00:43:06] that's actually that's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard
[00:43:09] so you know what actually you have even thought you didn't thought through that
[00:43:11] because if you were to fall through that you'd realize that Wednesday is the day when people are waiting for the podcast
[00:43:15] if we put it on Tuesday you know what actually don't come to me with any more ideas that don't make any sense
[00:43:20] whatever validate them through common sense
[00:43:23] before you approach me because it's actually a waste of my time
[00:43:26] it's a waste of your time it makes you look stupid
[00:43:29] that's what a brow beater is
[00:43:31] that's a brow beater
[00:43:33] that's a brow beater
[00:43:35] that's the understanding
[00:43:37] so you you
[00:43:38] that you have a brow beater
[00:43:41] if I would have had a brow beater in that first poll tune
[00:43:44] and actually there was a couple guys that were borderline brow beater
[00:43:47] and for whatever reason probably because it was the right thing at the right moment
[00:43:50] they decided not to beat me down
[00:43:52] so what is that luck?
[00:43:54] yeah that is luck
[00:43:56] now the second story and again
[00:43:58] as you mentioned like the details of these stories
[00:44:01] I put a lot of details so people could really
[00:44:04] learn what I learned
[00:44:05] that mutiny we had
[00:44:08] the the arrogant
[00:44:10] cartoon commanders out of line
[00:44:12] takes a swing
[00:44:14] at one of the enlisting guys tries to hit one of enlisting guys
[00:44:17] we break them up
[00:44:19] and again I explain this in the book
[00:44:21] people getting in the fight in the silt through this no
[00:44:23] this is not this is not a big deal
[00:44:26] this is a violent group of dudes that are on all kinds of
[00:44:30] all kinds of they got all kinds of tests to all run through their blood
[00:44:35] like this is a gang
[00:44:36] you know
[00:44:37] and
[00:44:39] okay so it's not that big of a deal but when it's the platoon commander
[00:44:42] that no one likes and that no one respects and that is totally arrogant
[00:44:46] all of a sudden we turned on him like boom now we had something
[00:44:49] but even then to your point Dave the commanding officer
[00:44:54] wasn't like okay guys thank you for the input I'll get rid of him
[00:44:57] he goes you guys this sounds like a mutiny we don't have mutiny in the silt
[00:45:01] or in the navy get out of here go to your jobs
[00:45:04] like that was not a good this is not normal
[00:45:07] and then luckily that commanding officer was smart enough
[00:45:12] to actually dig into it further and he relieved the guy got fired he fired him
[00:45:17] and that is luck
[00:45:19] commanding officer number one told us shut up do your job
[00:45:23] and number two he was smart enough to say you know what I'm gonna get rid of this guy
[00:45:25] those are lucky circumstances
[00:45:29] so that contrast another thing that was lucky if I would have had the horrible platoon commander
[00:45:38] and then okay one
[00:45:40] I may not have noticed if I would have had
[00:45:43] an okay platoon commander and then a phenomenal one I may not have noticed
[00:45:48] I went from one end to the spectrum from from the worst
[00:45:50] platoon commander that I could imagine to the best platoon commander that I could imagine
[00:45:57] and it's just like anything else right you don't we need to what as human beings
[00:46:04] there needs to be some discrepancy for us to notice it right we need to there's some contrast
[00:46:10] there was a big enough contrast that even my dumbass at whatever
[00:46:15] 22 or 23 years old went oh I see what's going on
[00:46:21] I see what's going on and that second that second platoon commander the good one
[00:46:26] that's actually the seed that started in my mind of oh
[00:46:31] he's an officer he was enlisted like me I'm enlisted like he was maybe I could become an officer
[00:46:38] just like this when I wouldn't even imagine that it wasn't even something that I thought
[00:46:42] I wasn't like hey you know I need to become an officer never in cross my mind
[00:46:46] because we were you know the elicit the the E5 mafia and COT1 we didn't want to be officers
[00:46:52] we didn't like officers you know it was that whole attitude
[00:46:56] there's so much detail though that those details are really important and
[00:47:02] the takeaways you have you still have to be looking for that stuff and you can now if you can
[00:47:07] look for that that contrast is actually out there and I know you can't cover everything in the podcast
[00:47:13] but those details even in the book the way you wrote it each one of those details is something the pay attention
[00:47:18] so when you read this I mean you have to read every line every every piece of that because there's a there's a take away from each one of those
[00:47:28] the contrast is there if you if you know to look for it and the biggest problem certainly for me and sure
[00:47:32] but is you just don't know to look for it and luckily those things happen with enough contrast for you to recognize
[00:47:39] even look back on it you got to you got to know to look for it yeah and I think well what we do now
[00:47:45] we don't need to see we know we can see little little gray area we can oh yeah yeah here's what's going on here
[00:47:52] we don't need to see someone that's a tolerary person that's only my way of highway we don't need to see all that we can see someone
[00:47:56] that's leaning in that direction and say hey you know why you're getting this push back here here's why it's it's a little push back
[00:48:03] because you're doing this and we get to see that is your because we're looking for it yeah but whether I would have seen this out of the gate
[00:48:10] without that broad contrast probably not to dumb so then we get to the third plateau and this is where again I go into a lot of details on the story
[00:48:20] what actually happened that you can pick apart you can say oh yeah that's what that was but fundamentally
[00:48:27] I did the same thing I did in that first thing when I made a call I made a decision I was detached I was doing the right thing I saw what's called making I made a call
[00:48:36] and once I made a call the two commander was like hmm hey why did you do that and I said well and I reviewed in my mind
[00:48:44] the cocky arrogant the ego my ego was the immediate voice that popped up you know the terminator you know the terminator echo yes when you when he's going to say something
[00:48:57] he gets an option of multiple responses that flash up in his LED heads up display
[00:49:03] you know what I say you do yeah this heads up display is H U D so I get that when this guy says why did you make that call I get the well because you're too slow to make a call or you should have been quicker or you didn't see what was happening or because I'm detached and I see all those little arrogant responses popped up and thankfully
[00:49:24] I just jerked the collar on that just the chain and said well you're an arrogant right now probably a little bit of that arrogant platoon commander that I had I felt that little
[00:49:38] I felt that little I felt his spirit in my brain I smashed it with the good with the humility
[00:49:46] and I did respond saying well you know I I wasn't sure I didn't hear you make a call so you know I just I made one and then he said why didn't want to I didn't want to retreat from the target I wanted to put this thing in
[00:49:59] and then I realized that number one being a leader doesn't mean that you have to be making the call every single time it doesn't mean that at all
[00:50:12] in fact being a good leader means what you're supporting what the leader the real leader the overall leader is want to do what's good for the team you that's what you're supposed to do
[00:50:24] and it was a good ego check for me it's not all about me and so
[00:50:29] let's always take a step back and make sure you know it's cool to detach and see what to do tactically how about jocco detach and see what's best for the team and see how you can support your leader
[00:50:43] and see how you can be a team player so that was the you know the next important sort of
[00:50:52] lesson that I learned that stuck with me because how many times throughout the rest of my career
[00:51:00] was it hey it's this guy's idea or that guy oh it's my idea or the other guys idea how many times that I put did that play out you know I cannot count
[00:51:09] the number of times the your idea versus my idea that happened in infinite number of times yeah
[00:51:15] your idea versus my idea and learning that lesson of you know what what's what's the best idea and what do we really try to get done and is the boss whoever that boss is because man
[00:51:28] it's so easy especially when you're young and
[00:51:33] you're young you want to do well you want to perform you want to be the guy right it's so easy that when the opportunity comes for you to be the guy to just jump up and beat your chest and beat the guy
[00:51:50] and it feels good that that short term gratification of like putting your chest out like yeah I made that call and it's such a short term gain and long term strategic loss to do that
[00:52:06] and that's what I learned when the time I made the call and I actually should have actually should have kept the mouth shut
[00:52:13] all right so those are the first the first little sections about that and then I get into the laws of combat and the principles of leadership and pretty pretty straightforward like a review you know cover move simple prioritized next
[00:52:28] you and the central is coming up I'll tell you what though as I'm right not down it's interesting because now you know we've traveled the world
[00:52:42] we've taught these principles over and over again to people and teams and organizations of every imaginable kind and it's these things apply
[00:52:53] the biggest question I get when I'm when we're working is how do you apply they understand what they mean and you can say those words and they can define them and explain them and the question people always have is how do I apply this
[00:53:08] and those those three the stories of those three pletunes and then when you kind of basically you review
[00:53:14] and you know it's really what sets the stage for how these where these fit and how to look for where they fit I mean even that story about the pletune commander of
[00:53:27] whether or not you should have made the call I mean there's there's the seeds of balance in there too is hey same situation previous pletune actually that that pletune commander did the exact same thing but for a totally different reason oh my people are all different and the way I treat this one guy and relate to this one guy doesn't work in every situation and when you talk about that too is when you look at other people's plans because
[00:53:49] egos always the biggest issue with every client we work with it's always egos at the top and the question that's best how important is this plan to that other person
[00:53:59] because if that other person has to do this plan the worst thing you can do is fight them on the plant no matter whatever the quality of the plan is
[00:54:08] and even having the humility of saying hey in this situation it isn't even about what is the best plan
[00:54:13] it's what's the best way to implement the plan because if I prove that I'm right and my plan is better and this guy has to admit to me in act with us we okay your plan is better what is the likelihood that that is going to be totally on board of supporting my it's not going to happen what is the likelihood that person's looking for you to fall on your face
[00:54:31] and that they even even by kind of you said in a second but you may be not sabotage but by just doing nothing when actually what you need them is to do the exact opposite that which is totally being the game so
[00:54:47] even as you read those reviews as first three to set the stage and even the review of eo and that kind of manker how many times you read those books read it in this context because it changes in your mind how they apply
[00:54:58] to the world that you care about which is your world which doesn't have to be the seal teams it's not what this is about it just that's the backdrop it's actually work work fits in whatever world that you're in
[00:55:08] not to mention the future by the way like you know how you if you have a better plan they have a good plan you have a better you have a level 10 this guy's a level nine
[00:55:16] and you know this plan is good and you're like no no no no this is not much better than yours and bones forced them to do it right there and not only during that plan
[00:55:25] they might not do their best but in the future you're like the guy who's like all you just think your plan is better so even in the future he might not have your back is much why would you even
[00:55:35] why are you even going to put forth that effort echo if when you brought me a plan that was a level nine yeah good plan
[00:55:42] a good plan and I was like no minds at level 10 we're not using your plan how much effort you can put it next time to come up with a good plan
[00:55:49] you know I mean that's we'll just say let who potentially less okay and I mean you want to talk about this is real world application
[00:55:57] I mean this is you and I work together you know you come up with plans for things sometimes yeah and and
[00:56:04] unless the plan is a grieges
[00:56:07] I'm sitting back over here going okay that's the way you want to set the stuff up cool like okay sounds good you want to show up at nine fifty nine
[00:56:14] or ten o'clock
[00:56:16] for a ten o'clock you know scenario but even with that if it's you and me I go hey ten o'clock you know nine fifty nine all good
[00:56:26] if if it's you mean and let's say we're having a guest on and I'll be a man guest
[00:56:32] and I know you know what that means that means like hey that means you're not letting me down it means we're looking bad we don't look bad you know so
[00:56:42] all good yeah but I'm not I'm not I'm not going I'm not saying hey there's a guest you better be here by nine thirty all set up
[00:56:51] I just tell you what's up and you know what to do
[00:56:54] it's true communication
[00:56:57] understand it understanding the intent
[00:57:02] Dave Burke maybe doesn't fully qualify as a as a full guest anymore in your mind he's like a hybrid like guest friend he was not quite enough to get here at nine thirty
[00:57:11] but a solid nine fifty yeah well let's face it I was hearing that nine fifty nine but you do the point remains yes yes hundred
[00:57:21] check check I mean this is you know and same with like at national on front we're doing all kinds of things at national on front all kinds of things
[00:57:31] I actually talked about this in the master nostril is really the most I've talked really I mean not a ton but several times I use in his example
[00:57:39] that at you know the actual echelon front muster there's a lot of moving parts there's a lot of things happening there's there's
[00:57:50] very audio visual stuff happening there's kids being made to hand out to people there's PT going on there's so much there's there's registration happening there's check in there's hand out of stuff
[00:58:06] there's organizing of tape there's all this there's just just huge logistical things that are happening how much do I know of what's going on next to none next to none and Jamie who runs the master like she knows she knows what the intent is and if she feels like there's a little
[00:58:26] I'm not 100% on this one I'm not sure she'll be okay Joko should we do this or this and I'll be like what do you think and she says well I think it'd be smooth as like this cool makes sense but as far as me actually
[00:58:41] directing anything very very seldom and I say no we need to do this way occasionally we will occasionally we will occasionally I will occasionally I'll say yeah no that's not a good plan and we're not going to do it that way
[00:58:53] and when and as you see when I say that people go cool yeah very seldom this someone want to get in debate with me about something I'm firm on I'm firm so self because you hardly ever do it yeah I'm firm so seldom that when I am people go there's something that we're not seeing here so
[00:59:11] so yeah it's it's the going back to this the just review of extreme ownership the review that I caught in the leadership
[00:59:23] important because just like when you read the manual about machine gun and cool it talks about the purpose of the machine gun
[00:59:31] right and that's why I specifically read those two sections from the Marine Corps one of them this is the purpose of the machine gun this is the principle of what a machine gun does the next one is how you actually do that is how to
[00:59:43] apply this is how you shoot that weapon from a tripod here's where you put the the show here's where you put put the weapon on your shoulder you apply pressure that's what I'm talking about here
[00:59:51] so we got the principles and I have to cover him here but then how do we get into you know actually put that shoot that weapon from the by but how do we actually fire these principles how do we execute them
[01:00:07] all right next section
[01:00:10] and again I know we didn't coordinate about which sections to talk about and there's a ton of sections I just try to I just kind of was going through going on this one this one would be good but
[01:00:19] skipping here this one is called the power of relationships
[01:00:25] the power relationships and this is one of those things
[01:00:29] one of those things you hear all the time right relationships are important let me tell you how important they are
[01:00:37] 99.9% of the things that I did in my entire military career were based on relationships and not based on chain of command
[01:00:45] 99.9% I'm not even I can't remember what the other point one percent is I'm sure it's in there somewhere
[01:00:52] but 99.9% of the things that I did in my military career were based on relationships
[01:00:59] so that goes when I'm talking about being the commander of task unit bruiser and we have an operation
[01:01:06] and life is going to be the assault force commander or the ground force commander on an operation
[01:01:12] I'm not saying hey, life here's how you're going to do it
[01:01:17] I'm saying hey, life here's what we got what do you think and we together
[01:01:22] have a relationship we formulate a plan or he forms a formulated plan and comes to me and says hey this is what I want to do and I call you that looks good
[01:01:29] right down to win my boss would say hey, jocco here's what I want you to do
[01:01:33] okay boss let me interpret that does this make sense is this what you really want is this this is this
[01:01:38] can I turn this on this direction and move a little bit more in the opposite way so I can achieve this result instead
[01:01:46] all that is based on relationships so developing these relationships is
[01:01:52] is the most important thing 99.9% of what you do should be from the relationships you have
[01:01:58] going back to the book there is another key element to leading any exceptional team relationships leaders
[01:02:03] leadership requires relationships good relationships with people above you below you and beside you in the
[01:02:09] chain of command are critical for a strong team the better the relationships the more open and effective
[01:02:14] communication there is the more communication there's the stronger the team will be
[01:02:18] for example there are times when a boss is driving forward on a less than ideal path that needs to be redirected
[01:02:25] if you have a good relationship with the boss you can explain tactfully
[01:02:28] what you see to be errors in their thoughts and ideas as always the approach you used to discuss this is important
[01:02:35] put the onus on yourself as to why the idea doesn't make sense for example
[01:02:40] you know boss I really want to support the plan to the best of my ability but I'm having a hard time
[01:02:44] understanding how to execute this part of it can you explain why you want to done that way so I can get it right
[01:02:50] so that right there is how you shoot the weapon from a by pod right that is it now the conversation is open
[01:02:56] and you can begin to figure out why the boss's idea is what it is and what you can do to influence that idea
[01:03:03] but before even getting to that point ask yourself some simple questions first how much will be gained by approaching the boss and trying to convince
[01:03:12] them to change their plan
[01:03:14] if the difference is minimal it's probably not worth investing any time or effort into it next ask yourself how much of your concern is just your ego
[01:03:22] there is a chance that you see it your way of doing things there is a chance that you see your way of doing something as smarter or more efficient
[01:03:33] then what the boss has offered if that is the case and you don't truly think there is much to be gained by using your method let it go
[01:03:40] don't create drama over your ego lastly ask yourself if you will be moving your relationship with your boss forward or backward by raising this issue
[01:03:49] I mean hammering that like at the master at the master I didn't say hey every conversation I'm going to have with another person is to improve the relationship
[01:04:00] that's like priority number one priority number one I'm going to improve our relationship if I'm going to have a conversation with Dave
[01:04:06] or relationship is getting better what Dave's walking around walking away from the conversation going man I hope I can do goodbye jocca
[01:04:12] as opposed to walking away shaking his head going I hope that guy forgot to take out his garbage Monday morning and he has to wait another week
[01:04:23] you know like just small curses you can put on me
[01:04:26] right you read that happen echo channels yes sir that's all yeah it's kind of annoying very annoying
[01:04:33] it's not like it's not like a life threatening thing you don't like it and it's so Dave walks away from the conversation
[01:04:38] he doesn't want to he doesn't want to kill me but he doesn't want me to have clean garbage cans either
[01:04:44] so when I have a conversation I'm looking to improve the situation
[01:04:48] do we talk about leadership capital
[01:04:51] Flynn and I work Flynn Cochran and I work together all the time
[01:04:55] we're at the point now that we talk about that concept of leadership capital not in sort of the theoretical and
[01:05:01] we at the beginning of our training when we start to work with companies and we're going to do for years
[01:05:04] the very first thing we start with after setting the table of all these concepts is leadership capital
[01:05:09] and the question yourself every single time is what I'm going to do
[01:05:14] a deposit or is it a withdrawal and when people think of those terms they
[01:05:20] this book is called leadership strategy and tactics are you thinking strategically in this
[01:05:26] even in this conversation we're having and you know the idea of what is the likelihood this is going to advance my relationship
[01:05:31] the answer is 99.9% of the time going to be super obvious is going to stare you in the face
[01:05:37] and if you think strategically you will almost never make a leadership withdrawal
[01:05:42] you'll almost never have any capital you're taking out of the bank
[01:05:45] and then when you you said don't don't create drama over your ego and when you're ego gets in the way
[01:05:49] almost every single time even when you get what you want you are taking a you're taking money out of the bank
[01:05:54] you're depleting your leadership capital until eventually you have none and nobody wants you to win
[01:06:02] it's amazing that it's so obvious like this is so obvious yeah
[01:06:10] and yet people make people absolutely make that mistake time and time again the other thing about this that's interesting
[01:06:17] or if you want to take up like another perspective of it is
[01:06:20] if my goal into going into a conversation is to improve my relationship with you does that make me
[01:06:28] some kind of a fake person right
[01:06:32] I'm a fake person because I'm just trying to trick Dave into liking me
[01:06:36] no actually I want us to win
[01:06:39] and by the way you know this goes back to the difference between leadership and manipulation which I talk about in the book
[01:06:43] so if if my goal is to get you to do something that's going to benefit me yeah that's manipulation and it's wrong
[01:06:51] if my goal in getting improving our relationship is so that our team can do better we can accomplish our mission
[01:06:59] and both those things by the way benefit you we guess what that's called it's called leadership
[01:07:04] so you know with that you know how because some people on the flip side of that whole spectrum is like they'll do that
[01:07:11] but it's almost like and I guess it's a question free so you know like okay you're watching coming to America remember that that show
[01:07:20] Eddie Murphy so it was is where Eddie Murphy's african guy and they like princes or something yeah yeah
[01:07:27] he comes in our senior hall was also in that right yes yes yes sir
[01:07:32] so anyway this is someone tells him that he's he's like hey you got to get in good with that that's how you do it
[01:07:37] so he's like okay he's going to build this relationship apparently he goes in and he'd like it's like weird you know essentially the point is he forced it he tried to force it so it didn't work
[01:07:47] so in real life how that looks is like every get like I don't know your friends like a real estate agent or something
[01:07:52] any sending you like handwritten notes like hey just wondering how you're doing it like probably I don't even know you that you know it's like
[01:07:58] you'd throw obvious the one they try to force a good relationship you know and it almost makes you kind of suspicious I mean nowadays it's
[01:08:04] the first so it's almost like it's called a brown nose or and people can yeah if you're a brown nose or that's that's that's a good point
[01:08:12] but there's a dichotomy with everything if you go so far that all I'm looking to do is please Dave with this conversation there's no tension at all
[01:08:19] there's no there's there's nothing just be put being a pushover well guess what what happens with his respect for me
[01:08:25] it's respect or something but so I'm not talking about you got to be just a brown nose right all yeah yeah no and then there's that's
[01:08:31] you too but there's a night and the one I was thinking about or the type of person I'm thinking about is like you can tell that this person you're just trying to build a relationship for me
[01:08:41] or with me I don't know why I can suspect why maybe you want my business or maybe you want something you want something I know and that's kind of the at the forefront so I mentioned this later in the book you know how you just crush that
[01:08:54] I'll tell you how you crush it when I'm talking to Dave you know why I'm talking to Dave and you know why I want to build a relationship
[01:08:59] because I care about Dave you know the number one thing for oh oh when I'm talking to Dave Dave knows that you know what I care about Dave if that's the underlying
[01:09:10] if that's the underlying principle on which we're that I'm doing this is because I care about him
[01:09:17] he's gonna know that that's subconsciously
[01:09:20] subconsciously and maybe sometimes you got to be a little bit more proactive and make sure that you know someone understands it like
[01:09:24] I mean and it doesn't mean proactive by saying hey Dave I really care about you
[01:09:30] it doesn't work you can't just say it you got to prove by your actions you got to show people like hey guess what's more important than me you
[01:09:38] So when I'm talking to you and I'm listening to you and I'm taking your advice on board and I'm saying yeah, you know what let's go with your plan
[01:09:46] I'm doing that because I want you to execute your plan. I want you to learn from your plan. I want to support your plan because I care about you
[01:09:52] Yeah, that makes it actually that's good right there that makes sense now. So so it's almost like actually it is where
[01:10:00] if I want to build a relationship with Dave I'm not gonna think okay
[01:10:05] Let me focus on build let me actively build a relationship just out of the blue or out of nothing. It's like it's more like that's almost in a way
[01:10:13] Secondary the the primary thing is like do I need to talk to Dave then yeah, I'll talk to Dave but while I do that the point is to build a relationship with him
[01:10:21] I'm not gonna be like I need to build a relationship with Dave more as Dave. Let me let me call him up and start trying to build a relationship with him
[01:10:28] So you're right and there's there's a danger here that
[01:10:33] You're you're someone's gonna be encouraged to force right there impose good relationships on people right?
[01:10:42] So yeah, you got to be careful that and and again and actually here's the next line in this book
[01:10:48] You are not building the relationships so you can guard or favor from the boss. No, you're trying to build a relationship
[01:10:54] So the boss trusts you and will listen to you so you and the team can more effectively accomplish the mission
[01:10:59] That's what you're doing you want to accomplish the mission
[01:11:02] Which is good for everybody
[01:11:04] And then it goes back and says for these reasons choose your battle carefully because you remember this whole paragraph is about like when do you actually approach the boss?
[01:11:11] When is it worth saying to the boss hey
[01:11:13] Boss can you explain this to me because I'm not sure that I understand what you want to have happened here if it's not worth that conversation because not gonna be that big of a difference
[01:11:22] Just go with it, you know, just just go with it. But what I'm saying is like I could see someone maybe reading this
[01:11:29] I could see me reading this. I can see me reading that and go into like let's say I had a job and
[01:11:34] I could read that and I'd be like hey, oh, let me build a relationship with chocolate and then I'll just roll in kind out of the blue and be like hey, because I'm building my relationships
[01:11:45] So I can go on a trust that's what I'm doing right now. So this is what I'm gonna do. Hey, Jaco did you catch that that full ball game last night
[01:11:51] And you're like well, what are you talking about like you're acting weird here. Here's the deal
[01:11:56] If the premise that you go on in on is you want to build a relationship with me for your own benefit
[01:12:00] The I'm gonna see right through that so as anybody else if the premise that you go in is because you care about me and you're wondering if I saw the football game because you know I like football and you want to talk to me about it
[01:12:09] And you care about me that's gonna shine through and I'm not gonna think this other negative thing
[01:12:13] So yes, if you're a person that's walking around and you're gonna use the principles in this book to benefit yourself
[01:12:17] Everyone's gonna see through it. It doesn't work and what's really cool and this is all the like the closing of the book is what we're getting to right now is if you want to if you want to have a successful
[01:12:32] Run as a leader and you want to rise to the top
[01:12:36] The best possible way to do that is to care about your team care about the mission take care of them and that will show through and eventually you will get to the top
[01:12:44] If you're if you're sitting there thinking hey, I want to get to the top so I'm ready to do whatever it takes and step on people or use people it's it's so obvious
[01:12:55] It's so obvious when someone's playing that game and you can barely even fake it you can barely even fake it like well
[01:13:02] I'm look I'm gonna get to the top, but I know I have to be cool with Dave my boss, so I'm gonna manipulate here. It's you and here's the here's a really sad thing if you're that person you think no one can see it
[01:13:18] Right, that's kind of everywhere can see yeah that's kind of the point there where like you got to be careful with that kind of stuff where like if if I'm trying to build a relationship like probably can see what you're doing you know,
[01:13:29] Like because again, this is part of that to be careful with it. Here's how you be careful with it. If you're trying to do this for yourself
[01:13:35] It's not gonna work if you're trying to do this because you care about the team it's gonna work and you're gonna win you personally are gonna win
[01:13:45] If you do this if you do this because you want to win you're gonna lose you do this because you want to take care of those people and want the team the way and you want the new comp is the mission so they can elevate it will work
[01:13:57] Yeah, let's do it if I want to win if you're a if you're a young leader right now listening to this conversation and thinking about how you can build a relationship in the power of the relationship with your people
[01:14:09] Actually those individual how you interact with that individual person isn't the biggest thing because what those people in your team are doing is watching you
[01:14:17] So maybe Jocca comes out and wants to build a relationship with me and okay, I'm trying to figure it out as the authentic or genuine
[01:14:21] What I actually get to do is watch Jocco with the other ten dudes in the team and over time of Jocco is just how he is and he believes in that and that actually he's gonna treat everybody the same way
[01:14:33] And it's not gonna be what he does or says to me that gets me to buy off that he's on board of this as I'm gonna see him in all the other
[01:14:40] And everything else that he does and I'm gonna come to the conclusion like do this is legit that guy that guy that guy cares about everybody else being successful and then those are
[01:14:49] Look your people are gonna need you at times and there you will have opportunities to build relationships but the authenticity isn't just what do I say to echo to get echoed a like mirror very favorite with echo because actually what you're doing to to to your leader is you're watching everything they're doing and the reason being fake about it doesn't work
[01:15:08] Isn't because I just see it with me is I see you do with everybody else that's why it's so obvious because you're out there trying to figure out a play the game of all his 10 different people and if you're if you're fake and it it's gonna
[01:15:17] It's gonna it's gonna be completely obvious not because of how you and I how interact so the thing that actually has to start with if you've now put put in charge of a team or a leader
[01:15:28] Go back and read that second put you in commander from jacco second puttune he didn't walk in and go I'm honored to lead you to count you as people that worked for me on my team he just said I'm happy to be part of this and I'm happy to help make the team win that's it
[01:15:41] You don't need to elevate the statue everybody knows who the boss is the chain of commanders understood everybody's got that hierarchy
[01:15:47] What you actually need to do is look for ways to break down those barriers and just have them recognize all that's got cares about us winning
[01:15:53] That's all he cares about and by behavior after behavior after behavior eventually you either do it or you're not and if you're doing it people are gonna get on board if you're not you're going to fail no matter what you do and people are gonna see that on my way
[01:16:05] Smell it on you
[01:16:07] This continues on it is obvious that building a trustworthy relationship with your superiors is important
[01:16:15] But how do you do that one of the simplest ways is obvious but often gets overlooked that is performance
[01:16:22] Your boss expects you to complete certain tasks so complete them do them on time on budget and with a little as little drama as possible get the mission done
[01:16:32] This includes doing things you might not be 100% in agreement with I did this throughout my career and it always served me well
[01:16:41] Boss wants me to fill out semester paper work cool. I'll do it boss needs me to cover a shift for someone else on the team. I've got it boss needs me to help clean up some administrative mess that got spilled. I'm on it
[01:16:52] Boss has a nasty low reward mission that needs executing. I'm all over it
[01:16:56] With each one of those problems, I am the solution with each problem I solve the level of trust with the boss goes up
[01:17:05] And I will continue on that path. I won't complain or try and shift bad jobs onto someone else or even look for some kind of praise
[01:17:13] I will simply put my head down and do the work over time. My boss will know that I am the person who can make things happen and more important I gain cloud with the boss
[01:17:20] This is the opposite of the subordinate who complains and objects or always thinks he has a better way to do things he loses influence with the boss every time he opens his mouth
[01:17:30] Any objection from that subordinate is seen by the boss as another typical excuse the more you talk the less people listen
[01:17:38] On the other hand when I do what needs to be done
[01:17:41] The boss trust that I can make things happen the boss also knows that if I do raise an objection
[01:17:46] It is likely to be founded on solid facts that should be considered
[01:17:52] Since I get things done and don't constantly voice my objections the boss actually listens
[01:18:00] I always utilize this strategy with my senior leadership and it worked well
[01:18:05] I would simply make things happen as often as I could. Now here's where this is going to
[01:18:10] I'm going to preemptively shut down your next comment echo Charles
[01:18:13] Because I know I can already see from this conversation where your head's at so listen to this
[01:18:19] And this is where I kind of feel like I make my money
[01:18:23] Sure right here next level okay, but
[01:18:27] How does that appear from the perspectives of of your subordinates
[01:18:32] Because now everyone's looking you go to do whatever the boss has for instance if I recognize that there are some flaws in my boss's plan
[01:18:39] Then my subordinate certainly recognize the same thing
[01:18:44] What do I tell them?
[01:18:46] How do I preserve their respect if they think I can't see the errors the boss is making
[01:18:53] The answer is simple I tell them the truth
[01:18:59] I say hey team I know there might be some better ways to skin this cat
[01:19:04] But at this point the effort to change the plan would take almost the same effort that it will to just get this job done
[01:19:11] So we are just going to do it and let me tell you what else we're doing by getting this done
[01:19:16] We are building trust with the boss every one of these little tasks from him that we crush
[01:19:22] Allow him to trust us more and more and that gives us the ability to get listen to
[01:19:28] So when something comes up that really doesn't make sense he will listen
[01:19:32] That is why we are going to execute this plan to the absolute best of our ability
[01:19:38] There you go, exo charge your next question just got preemptively answered no more questions you're welcome
[01:19:45] That's the part see that's the part where people get worried and that's the answer people get worried
[01:19:51] Who are the guys gonna think yeah, oh yeah, and especially when you and then when you say like we're gonna build trust with the boss
[01:19:57] It's like man that's like I have no argument to that like when I'm saying I don't want to build trust with the boss
[01:20:03] Unless you just some like anti team member, you know and no one's known to that really and we don't want to be that
[01:20:11] But yeah, that's so yeah, it's good thank you
[01:20:15] You're welcome
[01:20:18] I skip to this section now called
[01:20:21] Play the game
[01:20:22] You have to play the game to be more specific you have to play the long game
[01:20:28] Yes, no one wants to hear this
[01:20:32] Especially from me people don't want to hear about building relationships
[01:20:37] They want me to say you achieve victory through blunt force trauma
[01:20:41] If someone gets in your way go through them any political situation that is not turning out how you wanted it can be solved with a battle axe
[01:20:47] And this was a little thing that would that was a problem in the teams for me
[01:20:53] So if if somebody knew me from like the periphery from like the outside looking in kind of saw tasking a bruiser or saw my platoon or saw me at trade at
[01:21:04] They would kind of get this idea like okay, you know, this is this you know, that's how juggle cut rolls
[01:21:09] And sometimes those guys would never get to see the rest of the picture which which which would not work out well
[01:21:17] And this is something that left talked about you know, life would see guys that eat go. Yeah, they're they're trying to get their juggle on
[01:21:24] And they understand they understand the what is it the front facing juggle right the front facing juggle they don't understand the backside and what's going on behind the in the rear facing
[01:21:40] That type of hyper aggressive take no prisoners mentality is certainly simple and straightforward
[01:21:46] Which is often the kind of leadership advice that people expect from me and what they want to hear
[01:21:50] Because that attitude is so simple and straightforward it hardly seems it could fail and often that attitude doesn't fail
[01:21:58] At least not at first
[01:22:01] A heavy handed and hostile approach usually works for a little while you may be able to budget people into doing what you want them to do for a day or two maybe a week
[01:22:10] Maybe even a solid few months perhaps you can force a couple projects to completion through ruthless and aggressive offense
[01:22:17] But those successes will be short lived as you trash relationships burn bridges and leave scorched earth in your wake
[01:22:27] You will soon look up and realize you are done you have destroyed everything for short term gain you have nothing left
[01:22:36] That last part is so important the chain of command actually works and you can utilize the chain of command all you want and you can get things done I can just force the outcome I can if I am in charge of you by rank or position or title I can force that
[01:22:57] The lesson that needs to take with that will work until it doesn't
[01:23:01] And then the results are catastrophic then I like a little setback or maybe I got to come up another way when you go down that path when you finally hit the end and you will
[01:23:10] Maybe six months maybe a couple years some guys get get by for a while they do they get by long than we want them to
[01:23:16] But when you get to the end and it stops working
[01:23:19] Then you're in catastrophe then it's complete disaster and there's no recovery from that so if you're going down that road
[01:23:25] There is no easy end to that as opposed to hey, you know, I worked through it and maybe hit a brick wall and things don't work out I got to take a little bit of step back and things don't work out
[01:23:35] The other approach that frontal assault approach when it ends
[01:23:39] And I saw throughout my career watch guys hit their limit some guys would be in a matter of weeks and the first new position leading in listen we're into the first time
[01:23:47] Sometimes it happened to guys when they were squadron commanders and I mean they made it a long way long and they should have yeah but eventually they hit the wall
[01:23:56] Well, there's a reason for that and that's as soon as you were talking about this I was thinking the read in the military
[01:24:02] As I said earlier you get that job for long enough to just barely start to learn it and then you're on to another job
[01:24:08] So what happens is it happens it happens a lot in the military too often a guy is just a guy that leads by blunt force trauma
[01:24:14] And he gets done with his you talk around in the book there's like rest of the guys in the squadron are willing to take the abuse
[01:24:23] I don't care if my boss is a jerk I'm actually going to be successful anyway and you got a bunch of core guys in this squadron that have no problem enduring that
[01:24:30] This guy sucks, but I don't care because I want to win we're going to be successful and they actually benefit from that and he's gone in 24 months
[01:24:36] Right, so this is what happens and we see this as well you have a person that was in the military that rose through the ranks and did a good job on paper
[01:24:46] But was abusive and blunt force trauma and beat down people on his rise up retirees from the military
[01:24:53] Get out of the military and then all of a sudden gets a job in a civilian sector
[01:24:59] And doesn't last because as soon as he tries that people are going wait a second
[01:25:04] You think you're going to be here for the next 10 years. I'm not putting up with this no one in the chain of commands putting up with this and then and then you know what they say
[01:25:13] Well, you know, we're always in the military who is so much easier who people are better they all have the they have a million little excuses that they tie into it
[01:25:20] Everyone's got this common goal everyone's already been screened everyone's got they got that million little things they respect the chain of command. It's like no actually you're a bad leader
[01:25:25] You're a bad leader being in the military and even getting promoted through the military does not buy any stretch mean
[01:25:35] That you're a good leader at all no no guarantee and this is the type of person who gets done with a platoon they get a good fit wrap
[01:25:44] This is another scary thing about this is sometimes up the chain of command these people look great from the people that are above them
[01:25:50] They their boss loves them their boss is like hey, yeah, they got everything done. You know, you're aggressive really liked them. You go into that platoon
[01:25:57] And you guys you realize or go into that unit and everyone goes we hate that guy. Yeah, but we're going to endure
[01:26:03] Right and we still and we are going to endure them. The he's only going to be here for 18 months or 24 months and by the way, we still care about our job and we still have pride in our unit
[01:26:12] So we're going to make him look as good as we can, but we hate him. Yeah, but we know we cannot last. Yeah, we're over here playing the long game
[01:26:19] You don't care. I hate him find our hate him, but what I actually want is in the long run all my Marines are all the people in my team. I want them to be successful. So I'll play that game. And you know what if he gets promoted looks good
[01:26:29] The only thing that will stop me from playing the game working for a boss that I hate and and bro, I have worked for bosses that I hate the only thing that's going to stop me from doing that
[01:26:39] Me two brother. Yeah, the only thing that that stops me doing is my own ego. That's the only thing that keeps me going. You know what this guy sucks and you know what
[01:26:48] I'm putting a stop to it right now. The only thing that that force me down that road is money. You go. Just keep it in check. You were playing the long game and you might get not you might not get that satisfaction of seeing him fall. You might not get that. But
[01:27:03] If you were playing the long game so you and your people are successful, it won't matter. It won't matter and it may take longer than you want, but it will not matter on the end. If you are indeed playing the strategic game and
[01:27:17] So there's someone that's listed right now going well. Oh, I'm going to let my boss abuse my people. No, no, actually not at all.
[01:27:26] However, and there's a whole section in this book that cover this. Oh, if you if I got someone that's abusing my people or doing something else and ethical on safe. Yeah, maybe it is time for a mutiny but
[01:27:37] And we'll get into that. How you make that decision of when it's time to actually draw line in the sand. We'll talk about that.
[01:27:44] Going back to this section is talking about the person that just uses blunt force trauma.
[01:27:51] And I say don't do that. Instead, you have to play the game. That means I try to support my boss and perform my duties to the best of my ability in playing the game.
[01:28:01] I'm building up trust with the boss. I'm building a relationship. Why is it so important to build a relationship with my boss?
[01:28:06] Is it so I can get promoted? Is it so I can get assigned easier tasks? No, I am trying to build the relationship. Not for my own personal gain. I'm trying to build a relationship with my boss so we can better accomplish the mission.
[01:28:17] And playing the game doesn't only go up the chain of command. It goes down the chain of command too.
[01:28:23] When you are the boss and your subordinates come to you objecting to something you say.
[01:28:29] Listen and ask for alternatives. And when they give you a decent one say yes and utilize their alternative.
[01:28:37] Even if their alternative doesn't seem quite as effective or efficient as your methodology let them do it.
[01:28:43] This builds trust and relationship with the people below you in the chain of command.
[01:28:46] As often as you can listen and say yes.
[01:28:51] That's a nugget of beautiful advice. That's so much to say.
[01:28:56] As often as you can listen to your people and say yes to what they are saying to you.
[01:29:02] As often as you can. That's how you empower people.
[01:29:06] Yeah. That's how you build trust with them.
[01:29:08] There are no 10 out of 10 plans. They don't exist.
[01:29:12] They've worked at the height of his career.
[01:29:14] Talk on never had a perfect plan. There is no such thing as a perfect plan.
[01:29:18] And your idea is not perfect. No matter how experienced you are in house smart you are.
[01:29:23] Now their plan might be an eight years might be a 9.9.
[01:29:26] But the deciding factor isn't the quality of the plan.
[01:29:28] The deciding factor is the person's willingness to be successful when that plan has a problem.
[01:29:33] So if somebody has a plan that's just barely good enough.
[01:29:37] But they really want to do it. Say yes.
[01:29:40] Because what they're going to do is going to hit a wall and they're going to try to find a way to get over or around or through that wall.
[01:29:45] That's what they're going to do.
[01:29:46] Your plans are not perfect. Neither are theirs.
[01:29:49] So just go with their plan as often as you can.
[01:29:53] Continuing on eventually when a subordinate from the team comes to you with an idea that doesn't make sense.
[01:29:58] You can say no and they will begrudge you for it.
[01:30:01] You simply explain the issues with an idea and why you weren't going to do it that way.
[01:30:05] And they will be okay with it. They will accept your direction without feeling that you don't listen and they will move forward with full commitment to accomplish the mission.
[01:30:15] I was getting there but this is the little section on when is mutiny in order.
[01:30:24] And we just touched on this and I give some good background on it.
[01:30:28] And then I say as we try and as we try and work to get our boss to support what we're saying right we make that effort and I explain how to do that.
[01:30:39] And then we get to a point where I say okay, but even that doesn't always work. Sometimes a boss digs in and will not change their mind.
[01:30:47] Is it time for a mutiny?
[01:30:49] Is it time to draw line in the sand?
[01:30:51] You could tell your boss absolutely not I will not do this your way.
[01:30:56] It might be time to say that.
[01:30:58] But it also might not be.
[01:31:00] There are many variables to assess.
[01:31:03] And I talk about some of those variables but then I jump to him and I jump to here.
[01:31:07] Here are some possible outcomes when the subordinate refuses to comply.
[01:31:12] So this is when you decide you know what my boss came up with this plan or my boss wants to do something and I will not do it.
[01:31:17] Here's some things that can happen.
[01:31:19] One, the leader recognizes that the subordinate is extremely concerned about the plan.
[01:31:23] So concerned they are putting their career at stake and risking positive possible punitive actions because the plan is actually really bad.
[01:31:32] This is the best possible outcome. The leader awakened by the refusal of his or her subordinate to execute a plan.
[01:31:40] Re-considers the options and decides to execute a different way.
[01:31:44] Now the subordinate should rejoin the team throw their support behind the new plan and go help the team execute.
[01:31:50] So there's like the flowery outcome.
[01:31:53] You know Dave orders me to do something.
[01:31:55] I say Dave, I refuse to do this. This is an unsound plan and I will not execute and Dave goes, wow.
[01:32:03] Wow, this must be a bad plan. Let me reassess. Okay, Jocco explain it to me one more time. Okay, let's come up with a new plan.
[01:32:09] And then I say thanks Dave and we're good. That's the, that's the best case scenario.
[01:32:14] Here's a possibility number two.
[01:32:20] The leader digs in even deeper and will not change the plan. Since the subordinates refuse to participate,
[01:32:27] the leader fires that subordinate and puts a new leader in place who has been hand picked for unquestioning obedience.
[01:32:35] For the boss, the problem is solved.
[01:32:37] But the team will absolutely suffer since now the voice of reason has been replaced by one of the bosses. Yes, men.
[01:32:46] It will be the boss's plan and that is it. No one will have any choice or control. This is a horrible situation.
[01:32:53] To avoid it, consider the fact that since the boss is refusing to listen to suggestions about the plan,
[01:32:59] it is probable that the boss has a big ego and is likely to put a yes man into execute his or her vision without resistance.
[01:33:07] If this is a possible outcome, it must be weighed carefully.
[01:33:11] So when you're dealing with someone that's like, I'm not listening to your plan, as soon as you draw the line, they're not like, oh well, chances are they're not now all of a sudden ready to shift their mindset.
[01:33:21] What are the attributes of the leader that comes up with a plan that's utterly catastrophic without meeting it through anybody and tells everybody this is the plan.
[01:33:28] Super humble team players that's on board for the big one. Is that the type of leader you're dealing with here?
[01:33:33] Yeah.
[01:33:34] It's bad.
[01:33:35] Continue on if a subordinate draws a line in the sand and refuses to execute a plan or outright quits the position as protest they instantly remove all influence of any kind over the boss.
[01:33:46] So while the subordinate has made a very loud and clear statement, once that statement has been made, there's nothing else I can do.
[01:33:53] There are no longer a factor in the outcome and that's one of the questions I have about David Hacworth's decision to be interviewed and state and interview that if we didn't change the way we were fighting the war and
[01:34:05] we were going to lose.
[01:34:07] When he did that, when he kind of drew a line in the sand, he was out of the army very quickly out of command and that was that, which means he lost influence.
[01:34:16] And let's face it. He would have been a general who knows how high he would have gone, but he would have been a division commander, you know, I mean eventually.
[01:34:25] And then maybe he could have influenced and moved the war in the right direction.
[01:34:29] But instead he drew a line in the sand and he lost all of his influence.
[01:34:34] So now let's put ourselves in David Hacworth's shoes, right? We love soldiers. We love the army.
[01:34:45] We love our men and our men.
[01:34:49] We see men in the army in the Marine Corps throughout grunts being killed in Vietnam and it breaks your heart every single time.
[01:34:58] And then he gets control of his own battalion and he starts to save their lives and they start to win.
[01:35:04] But no one else is doing it.
[01:35:07] And with his heart being broken over and over again, he can't take anymore and says, you know what? I'm drawn a line and said, can I see how that could happen? Oh absolutely.
[01:35:16] So this is one of the things that you have to weigh and think about as a leader.
[01:35:22] The last one, if the subordinate tries every possible method to convince the boss that the plan is wrong and sees no way of changing the boss's mind, then perhaps the better option is for the subordinate to make one last statement of concern.
[01:35:36] And then proceed to lead the team in the execution of the plan to the best of their ability.
[01:35:40] This way the subordinate leader can at least do their utmost to mitigate the negative impacts of the poor plan, note the harmful results so they can be explained clearly to the boss and continue to play the long game in the future.
[01:35:51] The long game in building a relationship with the boss so they can convince the boss there is a better way to execute going forward.
[01:35:59] The inherent risk is this in this, of course, is that as Napoleon said, the subordinate is still culpable for the outcome.
[01:36:09] This is Banda Brothers, Banda Brothers, Dick Winners, they get ordered to do the war is all but over. They get ordered to do Reconocross the river.
[01:36:18] They have a guy get wounded, they have a guy get killed, they come back.
[01:36:22] The next night his boss says do another Recon.
[01:36:26] And he says boss not a good idea, we didn't learn anything last night, however we did lose a guy another guy wounded and it could be even worse.
[01:36:34] I recommend we don't do it, nope do the Recon boss not a good plan do the Recon.
[01:36:40] And what does Dick Winners do? Dick Winners says got it boss.
[01:36:44] Cool, tells us guys, all right, we're doing a Recon tonight of the same time.
[01:36:47] Tonight of this basement over in this building and bring some wine.
[01:36:53] So that's a classic example. Was that the right thing to do?
[01:36:59] Yes. Yes. Now if you would have quit and said no, I refuse to do this.
[01:37:04] That Lieutenant Colonel will have said cool, okay later Dick Winners.
[01:37:08] I got this next guy, he'll take a Recon over there tonight, doesn't matter.
[01:37:11] Yeah. So sometimes and you know, I heard this about seal platoons and Vietnam as well.
[01:37:17] Getting tasked with doing a patrol or an ambush in an area that was really bad that they didn't feel like was going to be a fruitful ambush and get order to do it.
[01:37:26] And they're like, hey Roger that Roger that boss cool patrol out the gate, go 200 meters into the jungle, set up a set up a perimeter, set there for six hours, come back, say yep, we didn't see anything.
[01:37:40] So is that ideal? No. But what are you going to do? This is these are the things you have to consider as a leader.
[01:37:55] Had in the military all the time happens now all the time is people that is that phrase falling on your sword.
[01:38:01] And I think most people understand that I don't think it's just military. Just the idea of when are you going to hold your ground and when are you going to be willing to to
[01:38:09] To fall in your sword for whatever this idea this position that you think you have.
[01:38:14] And what you have to recognize I think is two things is when you do that it's catastrophic for you.
[01:38:19] That's what the saying means it's catastrophic for you.
[01:38:22] But the other part of that that comment that Napoleon comment was it doesn't that's on a free pass for you.
[01:38:29] The outcome is still yours and it won't make you feel better and it won't give you a sense of accomplishment if you fall in your sword and your team still ends up losing
[01:38:38] or something catastrophic happens just to say well I held my ground and I told the boss we're not doing it and you get removed you get countermanated or worse you get fired or something really
[01:38:48] The outcome is still yours and again the piece that drives people more often to do that is is your ego convincing yourself that what I'm being asked to do is catastrophic.
[01:39:02] There are times it's actually true sometimes you get orders that are wrong they will be catastrophic and that story you know the the the the the the the the the the the the story there but when they lost that guy.
[01:39:14] The real question was this is a waste this is a wasted life this was something we shouldn't have done because it had no real real benefit that that is catastrophic.
[01:39:21] But more often than not when we get asked to do things we think are wrong if we can actually detach a little bit and think okay what is the worst outcome of this is it really catastrophic is it really worth.
[01:39:31] Following or sort or if you stay in position can you exert enough control that you are the reason why it is not catastrophic that you are the one that prevents.
[01:39:40] The potential catastrophe from happening and the answer that is.
[01:39:45] Almost never is it actually can almost never.
[01:39:49] And even if it is the most influential thing you have to prevent the cassette catastrophe is your leadership and that's hard I think for a lot of people's because falling in resort has this.
[01:40:01] It's like a cliche that people almost want to do well you get to be the marker yeah you're the martyr and yeah and also how often are you.
[01:40:09] And if you are failing as a leader to articulate the issues well enough with your boss that they actually understand so instead of trying to.
[01:40:19] Formulate a better argument for your boss to understand what you're trying to say you just say well he doesn't get him in a fall in my sword.
[01:40:26] I mean how often and you know why is it so rare that it's catastrophic because how often is a boss getting told that there's going to be a catastrophic outcome.
[01:40:34] Boss I think if we open this build it if we if we get a lease on this building we try and we try and set up shop there I think we're going to lose a lot of money and we're going to burn a bunch of our employees and it's going to be a complete and order catastrophe.
[01:40:47] And the boss is like hey I still like it go.
[01:40:50] Right or in the military hey I boss I'm very concerned that we are going to take heavy casualties and there will be no gain.
[01:41:00] And the boss goes no I like it go ahead. I never even had a boss do anything even close to those things now could it be hey.
[01:41:10] I want you guys to approach the target from here well boss I don't agree with that well.
[01:41:16] I'm telling you to do it okay well how catastrophic is that guess what I'm going to do I'm going to get on site I'm going to get past you know hey past the pro world that that that that avenue for approach was blocked and we're now approaching from where I plan to prop.
[01:41:29] But I wouldn't say that but I say now we're going to have to approach from a different direction sorry did you say pro word.
[01:41:34] Pro past the pro word yeah they're just words that like they're like code words and they and it's not like they're a secret but you might want to tell the upper chain of command that we have passed through phase line red and we are now approaching the target building and instead of saying all that you just say.
[01:41:56] You know Chevrolet and they go to the pro world.
[01:42:00] Yep they got the forward.
[01:42:02] The reality is that that first scenario with this this boss wants to catastrophe the reality is that.
[01:42:09] It almost never happens and almost never and the likelihood that it's happening to you is almost zero I'm not saying it's zero it's not zero but it can't happen it can happen and in in those cases you may.
[01:42:20] You have to follow on your sword and say I refuse to do that's right that second scenario happens all the time all the time and actually that's the one that you should be planning for.
[01:42:33] To how to manage that all the time which is that man this is actually not a good plan and you know what I'm in the ideal position to mitigate all the risk associated with it.
[01:42:44] And I'm going to do exactly that hey boss we're going to accomplish that mission let's go make that happen and then do like you said all those things what you should be planning for is is that second scenario because that's going to happen throughout your career all the time scenario number one almost never.
[01:42:59] Yeah, don't think it ever happened to me and I would say it's pretty good statement because I think I would remember if it did I'm going to think about this though I'm going to think about if it ever if I ever got orgred to do something that I was complete and other disagreement with.
[01:43:17] Especially something that's not in training I've had some pretty bad training plans. Yeah, but those are training plans so whatever in my real you know real combat situations I would have to put some thought into even what I think even comes even close to what even was close.
[01:43:32] Yeah.
[01:43:33] All right.
[01:43:35] Well.
[01:43:37] Did some that I just took that thought once that further did I sometimes hear some crazy plans coming down the chain of comment yeah and then I would say hey bosses crazy for the following reason boss the local thanks for that out don't do it pretty pretty straightforward.
[01:43:49] I didn't you know boom.
[01:43:51] All right, skipping forward to another section here.
[01:43:56] The section is called subordinate your ego.
[01:44:10] Which is a good phrase powerful phrase and I actually go through a pretty detailed example of when I had to subordinate my own ego.
[01:44:13] And how that helped solve this certain problem and.
[01:44:19] And then I'm going into an explanation of what the ego is how it's playing out granularly here we go back to the book ego is like reactive armor.
[01:44:29] The harder you push against it the more it pushes back.
[01:44:33] Do I get some good credit for that one.
[01:44:36] That is the tankers out there out of appreciate that is and that is it that is so true.
[01:44:42] Someone someone that doesn't someone that's got an ego like you might not even notice until you brush up against it. They don't have a Sunday reacts.
[01:44:51] Continues on if I had confronted this CEO and that goes back to the story if I had confronted the CEO about his attitude and told him he had a big ego he would have dug and even deeper so I did the opposite.
[01:45:01] I disarmed his ego by subduing my own.
[01:45:05] Now this is why I wanted to bring this up today.
[01:45:09] You might be afraid that if you subordinate your ego you will get trampled.
[01:45:16] But that normally doesn't happen because subordinating your ego is actually the ultimate form of self confidence.
[01:45:25] And I think that line right there is one of the lines when I was writing this book I just like took a screenshot of it and texted it to you.
[01:45:32] And I was like that line right there because subordinating your ego is actually the ultimate form of self confidence.
[01:45:40] That level of confidence earns respects, earns respect.
[01:45:43] So while the initial thought or feeling might be that you back down you've actually shown that you have the strength and confidence to give the other person credit.
[01:45:53] And they will recognize and respect that confidence either consciously or subconsciously.
[01:46:00] They feel it, they feel it, echo Charles when you're getting ready to roll you to you and you have never rolled this person before.
[01:46:08] And you lock up with them.
[01:46:10] You know right you can feel it and now whether you want to admit it or not you know.
[01:46:16] And that's what this does when someone says hey you know what go ahead and run with that.
[01:46:19] I gave my thing.
[01:46:20] That's right.
[01:46:21] That's right.
[01:46:21] I'm going to run with it because my plan is better and in the back of it's mind he thinks man.
[01:46:26] And like when someone says oh you want to start across side that's basically what you're saying that's basically what you're saying.
[01:46:32] Yeah you want to start an dominant position go ahead it's fine it's fine with me.
[01:46:36] I'm so confident in my jujitsu that you can basically start anywhere you can start a totally dominant position and I'm going to be fine.
[01:46:42] When you subdue your ego and you subordinate your ego.
[01:46:45] That person now that person you might be thinking oh yeah I'm going to start on the now and I'm going to kill you.
[01:46:51] And you think that right and you feel powerful but in the back of your mind you're thinking oh maybe subconsciously you're thinking wow.
[01:46:58] This person is confident this person knows that they're going to win.
[01:47:02] And so that's the same thing that happens here.
[01:47:05] Hey you know what once you take going to run with us.
[01:47:07] Yeah that's right I won and the back of your mind you think man.
[01:47:12] Jock what doesn't even really.
[01:47:14] Yeah he's his name care where this ends up.
[01:47:16] The word subordinate is such a good word because when you tell me about check your
[01:47:21] ego it's like okay I can check my ego but if you're the type of person that reads the word subordinate.
[01:47:26] And it bothers you.
[01:47:28] Yeah you are the person that's being spoken to you right now.
[01:47:31] The can is your ego is this I am not going to subordinate because it's submissive or has this feeling.
[01:47:36] That's why that word is actually so good because most of us don't want to do that.
[01:47:43] They don't like I don't like that word subordinate I don't want to subordinate I don't want to be submissive or passive or.
[01:47:48] That word is awesome because if you feel yourself right now reading that going I don't like that.
[01:47:53] Read this again and again and it's actually what you need to do and check this out.
[01:47:58] If you're reading this and you're going I don't want to subordinate my ego because I'm powerful.
[01:48:04] Then read the next part which says if you're truly powerful you got no problem.
[01:48:09] I don't need to be the star of the show because I'm just going to be over here and it's going to be fine.
[01:48:16] You guys can you can you can pay attention to the other guys that's cool I'll be over here just and I'm good with that.
[01:48:21] I don't need to say anything.
[01:48:23] I don't need to start in the best position.
[01:48:26] I'm good I'm confident been doing this game for a long time we're good.
[01:48:31] It continues on so after I say either they will recognize and respect that confidence either consciously or subcounstity.
[01:48:38] It says and that is the truth to put your ego in check to subordinate your ego.
[01:48:44] You must have incredible confidence.
[01:48:49] If you find you cannot put your ego in check because you're afraid it might look might make you look weak.
[01:48:57] Then guess what you are weak.
[01:49:01] Don't be weak subordinate your ego build relationships and win the long game.
[01:49:07] That's a pretty important chapter in this book that's huge.
[01:49:13] That gets to the core of what infects almost everything we do.
[01:49:17] There almost isn't a problem in the world that exists in your life that isn't connected to your ego and that is the lesson for that.
[01:49:25] The amazing thing about that is that not only are you strong if you could do that you just start winning everywhere.
[01:49:31] You start winning everywhere in life you just start winning when you do that when you look around and go, oh no no no factor go for it do that.
[01:49:38] You win.
[01:49:39] Life gets so much better when you're able to do that.
[01:49:42] Just let it go.
[01:49:45] And the supreme confidence this is the weird part.
[01:49:48] So people understand the supreme confidence that that exudes when you go, oh you want to take lead on this cool go for it.
[01:49:58] Cool yeah what can I do to help?
[01:50:00] Yeah what can I do to support you sounds like you got this handled what can I do to help?
[01:50:05] The supreme confidence that that exudes is powerful.
[01:50:12] Kind of like when someone gets in your head on the map.
[01:50:19] Yes we can start wherever you want.
[01:50:22] I'll tell you even more powerful moments smaller it's seemingly smaller but it's way more powerful when you think about it.
[01:50:28] So let's say me and you're rolling.
[01:50:31] And then you let's say I get a good position on you and you and then we sorted drift and let's say get Mount whatever great position on you and we sorted it more scrambling whatever it's still got Mount and then we kind of drift out of bounds right.
[01:50:45] Or we run into somebody where we got to kind of stand up you know get out of the juicer position stand up and walk to a clear part on the back.
[01:50:51] And then so because that all happens sometimes in the person in the bad position will just sort of clap your hand like you're starting on over.
[01:50:57] Oh yeah that's even.
[01:50:58] Yeah.
[01:50:59] I was going to say maybe a small adjustment maybe I like go and like you're mounted but I got my elbow already in so it's going to be okay.
[01:51:06] That's a little bit more sneaky in it.
[01:51:08] I mean it's probably just as sneaky but just in a different way.
[01:51:11] It's a different thing in a little bit of it.
[01:51:12] Well that both that both going to send the same message.
[01:51:15] Yeah I'm scared but this exactly right.
[01:51:18] So here's not confident.
[01:51:20] Yeah exactly right so let's go on set further.
[01:51:22] So let's say we roll I get into a good position on you.
[01:51:26] We go back to the center thing you slap my hand and you get into like the neutral position right and it's like a little dance you know someone someone's going to lead this and lead that right so you somehow we get into a neutral position.
[01:51:40] The confident guy would just be like cool we're in neutral position.
[01:51:43] Yeah cool and we just keep rolling.
[01:51:45] Oh yeah the uncomfortably.
[01:51:46] I'm going to be a way I had my own.
[01:51:48] No let's go back to Mount.
[01:51:49] He's a pretty good.
[01:51:50] Even though he'd still be justified but the supremely confidence man.
[01:51:54] That's a fly.
[01:51:56] Oh cool yeah I don't start it.
[01:51:57] I'll tell you why why don't you Mount me.
[01:51:58] Don't say anything just be like whatever.
[01:51:59] Go over doing.
[01:52:00] I don't even I don't need to I don't need to I don't need to tension to to let you know that that's how supreme the confident I am.
[01:52:07] You know it seems like it like I'm so confident.
[01:52:10] I had Mount I'll let it slide you know I don't have to say that.
[01:52:13] Just do it.
[01:52:14] Whatever be that guy be that guy.
[01:52:16] 100%
[01:52:17] Alright moving on to this next section.
[01:52:19] Core tenants the first one is called be capable and ask for help.
[01:52:25] A leader must know and understand the jobs skills and equipment used by the people below him or her in the chain of command.
[01:52:32] This isn't to say a leader needs to be an expert in everything.
[01:52:36] That is impossible.
[01:52:37] The two commander does not know as much about shooting as this sniper's do.
[01:52:41] He can't understand the various radios as well as his radio man does.
[01:52:45] He will not know the details of routes to and from a target like the point man will.
[01:52:49] On a construction site the form and won't be able to operate the equipment with the same efficiency as those who operate that equipment all day long.
[01:52:56] He won't be able to lay block as well as the mason or tie rebar like an iron worker.
[01:53:01] In the manufacturing business a plant manager might not be able to run each machine or handle every task on the line.
[01:53:07] But in these cases the leader must at least be familiar with what goes on below him in the chain of command.
[01:53:13] What should a leader do if he doesn't know or understand a skill or job that plays a role in the accomplishment of the mission?
[01:53:21] Simple.
[01:53:22] Ask.
[01:53:23] That's right.
[01:53:24] Go and ask.
[01:53:25] And not just for an explanation ask to learn and actually do.
[01:53:29] Sight in that sniper weapon program that radio lay some block run that piece of equipment for a little while.
[01:53:36] Get familiar and then actually practice the task.
[01:53:39] Unfortunately most people avoid this process because they fear they will look stupid.
[01:53:45] They think their subordinates will lose respect for them.
[01:53:47] But the opposite is true.
[01:53:49] This is another area where ego can be a real impediment to success.
[01:53:53] Some leaders feel it is a weakness for at to ask for help.
[01:53:56] That couldn't be further from the truth.
[01:53:58] Subordinates won't actually respect the leader more if they come and try to learn and perform the task.
[01:54:04] What subordinates don't respect is a leader who tries to appear to know everything.
[01:54:08] I know this from experience when I was a junior ranking seal.
[01:54:11] I was always impressed by a boss who would come and truly show interest in what we were doing on the front lines.
[01:54:17] I was even more impressed if they asked questions and wanted to really understand my perspective.
[01:54:22] And I would be completely impressed if the leader physically tried to do what I was doing.
[01:54:26] Programma radio shoot and advanced weapon system or build a demolition charge.
[01:54:30] If you need help with something ask for it.
[01:54:33] Subordinates understand that their leaders might not know everything. Put your ego in check and ask for help.
[01:54:38] You will do a better job and you will gain respect from your team.
[01:54:41] Stepping down and learning front line skills also shows your humility.
[01:54:46] It proves you aren't above what the front line troops are doing and it shows you know their job is hard.
[01:54:53] Seems like common sense.
[01:54:59] I see that very rarely in certain leaders in the private sector.
[01:55:09] And I think it's exactly what you said.
[01:55:11] There's this fear of looking dumb.
[01:55:14] When I had my first real job in the Marine Corps, I had a, it was called Powerline.
[01:55:19] I had 38 Marines.
[01:55:20] It was a big position for Lieutenant.
[01:55:22] Young officer, 38 Marines, and their job was to essentially service the engines and the aircraft to make sure the jets were good to take off in land.
[01:55:28] Big, huge responsibility.
[01:55:29] And there's a qualification to get that.
[01:55:31] And when I took over that job, I got that qualification, which was not really what I was designed to do, but I wanted to do it to learn.
[01:55:38] So I learned all the things that I need to know.
[01:55:40] And I got this designation, this qualification to be able to do this launch and recovery.
[01:55:45] Is that normally an enlisted guy's job?
[01:55:47] It is.
[01:55:48] It is an enlisted guy's job.
[01:55:49] But I wanted, it was my first job, I wanted to know what they're doing.
[01:55:52] And guess what?
[01:55:53] We had 24 plane captains in the squadron.
[01:55:56] I was the worst one by far.
[01:55:59] I was terrible at it.
[01:56:00] And I didn't have a ton of experience in town of history.
[01:56:03] But not just what I learned from doing it, but the connection I made with those guys that I was just willing to do that.
[01:56:09] And it isn't like some gesture of, hey, I want to spend.
[01:56:12] It's actually learned what's going on in their world.
[01:56:14] It made me so much smarter because I understood what the problems that they were dealing with.
[01:56:20] Getting down with your folks.
[01:56:21] If you're going to do it just to kind of put on a good show and put it, don't waste your time.
[01:56:25] But if you're actually going to go down there and look stupid, they're respectful you will go,
[01:56:30] because most people don't want to go off the charts.
[01:56:33] And it seems so obvious since it's common sense.
[01:56:36] And it's actually easy thing to do.
[01:56:38] It is counterintuitive, even though it seems common sense for muscle looking at it right now.
[01:56:41] It's super counterintuitive because you think, well, I don't really know how to do the job.
[01:56:45] So I'm going to hide from it.
[01:56:46] So that way, they won't know.
[01:56:48] I don't want to look bad.
[01:56:49] I had to throw this in there.
[01:56:54] One of the most important tenets of leadership I'd hear too as a leader is the idea of extreme ownership.
[01:57:04] The idea of extreme ownership has struck a chord with people.
[01:57:08] And it has been incredibly effective in helping those in all kinds of leadership positions,
[01:57:14] leading all kinds of teams in all kinds of industries, businesses and professions.
[01:57:18] Leaders found that when they took ownership of everything in the world,
[01:57:21] they saw other members of their teams, both up and down the chain of command taking ownership as well.
[01:57:26] When people take ownership of their jobs and their mission, the job gets done and the mission gets accomplished when there are problems.
[01:57:32] And people take ownership of those problems that problems get solved.
[01:57:35] While extreme ownership might seem like a fairly simple concept to understand,
[01:57:40] it can be difficult to fully comprehend what it really means.
[01:57:43] What it really means is that the leader is responsible for everything absolutely everything.
[01:57:47] This can be hard to fully understand because there are times when a subordinate does something that the boss feels they cannot control and cannot possibly be responsible for.
[01:57:57] A subordinate might make a mistake or take an action that is completely unexpected.
[01:58:01] How can that be the leader's fault?
[01:58:03] I like to use the example of a young machine gunner in a sealed pitoon.
[01:58:08] To exemplify how a leader truly is responsible for everything that happens.
[01:58:11] A sealed machine gunner plays a key role in a sealed pitoon.
[01:58:14] The implies he carries a machine gun, a heavy belt fed weapon capable of firing over 700 rounds per minute.
[01:58:20] The machine gun's ability to lay down such massive firepower makes a critical two sealed pitooner squad because it is the main weapon that puts down a presset fire on the enemy.
[01:58:28] It keeps the enemies heads down, allowing the rest of the seals to maneuver.
[01:58:32] The machine gun provides the main source of cover in the fundamental tactic of cover and move the first law of combat.
[01:58:39] Of course the machine gun does not operate itself, it's worthless without the machine gunner.
[01:58:44] The machine gunner carries the weapon in its ammunition, maintains the weapon loads and fires the weapon.
[01:58:49] Those are the mechanics of the job, but a machine gunner must also be aware of how to best employ his weapon.
[01:58:55] He must understand how to get in good position from which to best engage the enemy and provide cover for his team.
[01:59:01] He must also understand the terrain he is in.
[01:59:06] And see how it can be used to his advantage and to the advantage of the platoon and how the enemy can also use the terrain.
[01:59:12] To their advantage if allowed to do so, the machine gunner must also understand his field of fire, field of fires the area of the battlefield as sealed as responsible for,
[01:59:20] whether a street hallway, valley or cardinal direction in that area he must locate and engage the enemy.
[01:59:27] But field of fire is equally important in its limitations.
[01:59:30] Outside ones feel the fire there might be innocent civilians, other friendly forces or perhaps even your own seals, bluntly stated,
[01:59:37] staying within your field of fire prevents you from shooting your own people.
[01:59:41] So the machine gunner can have a lot on his mind.
[01:59:44] But because his job is to shoot, the generally isn't much leadership required from him.
[01:59:49] Machine gunners are almost always part of a small fire team of four to six people, which is led by a fire team leader.
[01:59:55] With the lack of leadership opportunities being a machine gunner is a job that is generally held by relatively inexperienced new guys who are in their first or maybe second platoon.
[02:00:05] Because of the size of the machine gunner, it is also often referred to as the pig, which makes the machine gunner a pig gunner.
[02:00:16] Also because of the size of the pig gunner usually requires a seal who is slightly larger to carry it.
[02:00:21] It is not always true is common for new guys to be assigned as pig gunners if they are large framed strong individuals.
[02:00:29] There is also an ongoing stereotypical joke in the seal teams that pig gunners being big strong new guys aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.
[02:00:38] Any new guy that does something dumb will be told he will make a good pig gunner.
[02:00:43] When a briefing is completed, it would not be uncommon for the platoon chief to ask do you pig gunners understand?
[02:00:49] This is why this stereotypical pig gunner makes the perfect example of extreme ownership because the stereotypical pig gunner is going to make mistakes.
[02:00:58] And they are a very easy target for blame.
[02:01:00] I heard it on a fairly regular basis from young seal leaders on training operations that I ran.
[02:01:05] The young leaders didn't fully understand their roles and the concept of extreme ownership.
[02:01:10] The training operations I ran were very complex and stressful and combat simulations.
[02:01:15] We had a large budget for training and we utilized it to replicate the chaos and mayhem of combat to the best of our ability.
[02:01:21] We hired Hollywood set designers to make our training areas look like cities in Iraq or Afghanistan.
[02:01:26] We use role players to mimic the actions of both enemy combatants and friendly civilians.
[02:01:30] We simulated weapons with paintball or other high end paint marking rounds or with multi-million dollar laser tags system.
[02:01:38] This simulated combat zone not only taught tactics, it was the ultimate leadership laboratory.
[02:01:44] And this is where I would see young seal leaders reveal that they didn't understand what extreme ownership really meant.
[02:01:50] Let's say your pig gunner, let's say a young pig gunner shot his weapon in the wrong direction outside his field of fire.
[02:01:56] When I would ask the pig gunner's leader, what had gone wrong, it was very easy for him to say, well the pig gunner made a mistake.
[02:02:03] He shot in the wrong direction.
[02:02:05] Whose fault is that? I would ask.
[02:02:08] Well, the gunner aimed the weapon he pulled the trigger, it is his fault would be the reply.
[02:02:13] Actually, I would explain it's your fault.
[02:02:16] How can it be my fault? He's the one that shot the weapon the young leader would object.
[02:02:21] This was a pretty common response, but it was wrong.
[02:02:24] You see if the pig gunner makes a mistake, it means he hasn't been trained properly.
[02:02:29] The leader is responsible for training the gunner.
[02:02:31] If the gunner shoots in the wrong direction, it means he hadn't been briefed, so he fully understands his field of fire.
[02:02:36] The leader is responsible for briefing the gunner.
[02:02:38] And yes, it could also mean the pig gunner is completely incompetent in understanding his task and knowing his field of fire.
[02:02:45] If that is the case, is the leader's responsibility to identify that shortfall,
[02:02:49] and either train the gunner so he does understand, remove the gunner from his position and place him into a job he is capable of,
[02:02:55] or as a last resort, fire the gunner from the team, so he can, if he cannot do his job properly.
[02:03:02] So regardless of the reason the gunner failed, it is the leader's fault.
[02:03:07] A leader is responsible for everything a person on his or her team does.
[02:03:12] I even felt like this when one of my guys would get in trouble off base.
[02:03:17] If one of the seals who worked for me went out and down and drank too much and got into a fight,
[02:03:21] I always thought where did I mess up?
[02:03:23] How did I fail to make that individual realize that consequences of his actions?
[02:03:27] Why did I know he was headed for trouble and keep him from going out?
[02:03:32] Taking extreme ownership means that leaders are responsible for every action the people on their team make.
[02:03:40] It is as simple as that.
[02:03:45] You might wonder why I had to put that section in there, but we hear this all the time.
[02:03:53] It's not really my fault.
[02:03:56] I mean I get it.
[02:03:58] Oh yeah, of course I'm responsible, but hey, the big counter doesn't really, he's not that good.
[02:04:04] No.
[02:04:06] The marketing department, I know it's my responsibility, they release something that should have been released.
[02:04:11] You know, it's my fault, but I'm going to fire that person.
[02:04:15] Okay, it's not my fault, it's their fault.
[02:04:20] It means everything.
[02:04:22] And then we get into this preemptive ownership.
[02:04:26] When a leader knows they cannot blame anyone or anything else, they will implement what I call preemptive ownership.
[02:04:33] They will take ownership of things to prevent problems from unfolding in the first place.
[02:04:40] The leader who knows he can't blame his machine gunner when the machine gunner makes a mistake is going to take preemptive ownership and focus on training that machine gunner and ensuring he understands the plan and his part in it.
[02:04:53] The leader who knows bad weather is no excuse not to execute a mission will take preemptive ownership to ensure there are layers of contingency plans and the event the weather takes a bad turn.
[02:05:04] The same is true for any team.
[02:05:06] If the leader knows they're truly our no excuses, then he or she will make every conceivable effort to prepare.
[02:05:15] Ownership isn't just about taking responsibility when mistakes happen, the highest form of extreme ownership of extreme ownership takes place.
[02:05:24] Preemptively, before mistakes occur.
[02:05:28] So don't just take extreme ownership after the fact, take preemptive ownership to mitigate problems before they even happen.
[02:05:38] Some people don't make that connection.
[02:05:42] The extreme ownership is not only in the past tense.
[02:05:45] It actually is the present tense in future tense.
[02:05:50] Yeah, there's also a reason why this is in the strategy section of this is that this is sort of the highest level of the mindset of if you really believe everything is your fault.
[02:06:01] If you really believe that not with a little caveat or like, well in this case, if you can take the the butt out of it and it just it just my fault period.
[02:06:10] If you actually have that frame of mind, genuinely, and you actually truly believe that this idea of preemptive ownership is actually really easy.
[02:06:18] Because you just start to look for things well in advance of what pitfalls are going to come and doing this isn't as hard as it might sound.
[02:06:26] The barrier isn't taking preemptive ownership.
[02:06:29] The barriers actually believing that there are no little exceptions to where it's actually not your fault.
[02:06:36] That's the piece that's hard for folks and it's hard everywhere, which are the military, it's hard for the private sector, it's hard for families.
[02:06:42] But when you see the ones that do it, this thing that you just talked about, people doing all the time, the ones that truly are there, that's all they're doing is looking for those places.
[02:06:50] A head of time and those people, ironically, are the most successful.
[02:06:54] They're plans, they're the ones that achieve the highest amount of success because they've, they're a way out in front of all those potential pitfalls.
[02:07:00] You got to throw a dash of.
[02:07:05] You got to throw a dash of.
[02:07:11] Long game strategy into this because.
[02:07:15] If what I do is okay, there's no excuses, Dave, you're running this mission.
[02:07:20] Cool, I'm going to direct and I'm going to, I'm going to micromanage you to the point where I promise there will be no mistakes.
[02:07:27] Okay, now this is why you got to throw some long game in there, so strategic vision.
[02:07:31] That's why it's in the strategy section because.
[02:07:34] If that's what I do, what if you learned you haven't learned you haven't figured out how to plan on your own you haven't figured out how to execute the operation on your own.
[02:07:42] So even though you're responsible for everything, which you absolutely are, that doesn't mean that you do everything.
[02:07:49] And by the way, you can't do everything.
[02:07:51] You don't have time or the cognitive capacity to handle and make every decision you can't do it.
[02:07:56] So.
[02:07:58] Taking extreme ownership of everything doesn't mean doing everything yourself and micromanaging and making every decision at all.
[02:08:04] That's a short term and like I like we said earlier, that's like a brute force that can work for a little while like I could be like okay, Dave.
[02:08:10] Oh, you're going to talk to a company cool, I'm going to go with you.
[02:08:13] I'm going to write your brief for you.
[02:08:15] I'm going to.
[02:08:16] You know, sit in the back row and make adjustments as you talk. Okay, cool.
[02:08:19] I can do that one time.
[02:08:21] What about Mike's really who's out there? What about Andrew Paul?
[02:08:24] Am I going to do it for everyone? What about Flynn? What about,
[02:08:26] And I'm going to sit there and didn't know can't do it. It's impossible to do it.
[02:08:29] So yeah, I'm responsible for what we're saying. I'm responsible for our mission, but I got to make sure that the training is happening that the knowledge is there.
[02:08:39] And then you got to stick us back.
[02:08:42] Speaking of which, I'm jumping into this section called leading from the rear.
[02:08:47] One of the most common mantras that leaders here is lead from the front.
[02:08:51] And it makes sense after all, some critical things happen when leaders lead from the front.
[02:08:56] When a leader leads from the front, he or she is setting the example showing exactly what to do and how to do it.
[02:09:00] This model can be critical during fear inducing moments.
[02:09:04] There are many examples in combat where the situation is dire.
[02:09:07] And it is leadership from the front that changes the outcome.
[02:09:10] Perhaps there is in perhaps there is some open terrain to cross.
[02:09:13] Maybe there is an enemy sniper waiting to take a shot.
[02:09:16] Maybe there is a room with enemy fighters behind the door that needs to be entered.
[02:09:19] Any of these scenarios can cause people to become fearful and freeze.
[02:09:23] Who wants to risk death?
[02:09:25] But any of these situations can grow infinitely worse if no action at all is taken.
[02:09:32] Most types of combat examples prove that someone needs to act.
[02:09:37] More often than not, that's someone is the leader.
[02:09:40] When no one else has the courage to take action to lead or has to lead from the front.
[02:09:43] The leader has to charge across the open terrain.
[02:09:45] Menouver in the enemy's sniper's line of fire or breach the door to engage enemy fighters.
[02:09:51] If the leader doesn't take action, no one will.
[02:09:53] The troops will freeze.
[02:09:54] The enemy will seize the initiative.
[02:09:56] Get the upper hand and win.
[02:09:58] It is not only combat situations where leaders need to lead from the front.
[02:10:03] In any situation that is stagnated because of fear or apprehension, a leader stepping up and taking action is a solid solution.
[02:10:10] The same is true of terribly arduous tasks.
[02:10:13] People tend to shy away from suffering.
[02:10:16] They will procrastinate and avoid getting started.
[02:10:18] But when the leader jumps in and starts attacking the job, others will jump in and get started as well.
[02:10:23] A leader must also lead from the front when it comes to setting a good example.
[02:10:26] Treating people with respect taken care of one another and being professional in all times.
[02:10:30] If the leaders lead in this manner, others will follow.
[02:10:34] Examples like these prove there are plenty of times when a leader must lead from the front.
[02:10:39] But there are also times when a leader must lead from the rear or perhaps from the middle.
[02:10:45] So plenty of times when a leader has to lead from the front.
[02:10:48] That absolutely makes sense.
[02:10:50] I've seen it.
[02:10:51] I've done it.
[02:10:52] It happens.
[02:10:53] But back to the book.
[02:10:55] When I served as a seal, a sole force commander, I always tried to avoid being one of the first six to eight people to potentially to enter a potentially hostile building during an assault.
[02:11:04] I did this because the first six to eight people would be clearing rooms, perhaps getting in gun fights and at a minimum, detaining potentially resistant prisoners.
[02:11:13] In short, the first six to eight people would be heavily engaged in dynamic fluid situations that required their full attention.
[02:11:20] If those first assaulters got to a firefight and were immersed in trying to stay alive and eliminate the enemy, who would call for supporting assets.
[02:11:28] If they were overwhelmed by a large number of detainees, who would call for reinforcements.
[02:11:33] If possible enemy, first no, were seen departing the building, who would notify the external security elements that this was happening.
[02:11:39] In any of those cases, while the assault team was dealing with the immediate tactical problem, someone else had to lead.
[02:11:46] In those situations, it was on me to lead.
[02:11:50] My job was not to clear rooms, engaged targets or grapple with detainees.
[02:11:54] My job was to detach, assess all the dynamics of the situation and get my men the support they needed.
[02:12:01] So when I approached a building, if I happened to end up as one of the people toward the front of the assault team, I would step back,
[02:12:07] Highport my weapon, and let some of the other seals go in front of me.
[02:12:11] As soon as my seal saw me, do that. They immediately knew what was happening and would move past me toward the target.
[02:12:17] The momentum would not be broken.
[02:12:20] But it's not only on the battlefield, where a leader has to be cautious about leading from too far to the front.
[02:12:27] Planning is another time it is important to consider where to lead from. Instead of the leader coming up with a plan, the preferred method is to let the team members come up with a plan. Let it be their idea.
[02:12:37] When the leader allows the team members to come up with a plan, those members have already bought into it.
[02:12:42] There is no need to convince them of it.
[02:12:44] Of course, if the planning process gets bogged down or different members of the team, can a green or a course of action?
[02:12:49] It might be necessary for the leader to step in and provide guidance or even make a decision on which course of action to use.
[02:12:56] So, it just closes this out, but it is almost always preferred for the leader to lead from the rear to allow the troops to take lead on the plan and to take ownership of.
[02:13:09] The best idea is often come from the people on the team who are closest to the problem. Those are the folks on the front line. Don't inhibit them.
[02:13:16] Instead, allow them the freedom and authority to create an execute new plans and ideas they have the knowledge given them the power.
[02:13:23] Don't feel the need to always lead from the front. Take a step back and let your team lead.
[02:13:30] Yeah, it's, you know, Dave, you've been working with me long enough that you probably see me.
[02:13:41] How long have you been working together now? Three years. Three years. You've probably seen me.
[02:13:46] How many guests? Seven times in three years. You know, have something going on and me say, all right, here's what we're doing.
[02:13:56] Do you what do you think is that a good assessment? Yeah, seven or less. Seven or less.
[02:14:01] And this is a lot of things. A lot of things.
[02:14:03] A lot of things. A lot of, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of hundreds and hundreds of decisions.
[02:14:07] Yes.
[02:14:08] That get made at echelon front.
[02:14:10] Seven times. Yeah. It's been contentious enough or bogged down enough where it's like, okay, we're not actually making progress enough.
[02:14:19] It's happening. And it's like, okay, guys, here's what we're doing. And you know, it's the same thing that when I was on a ground force commander in a salt force commander.
[02:14:29] I wasn't going to say anything because the guys knew what to do.
[02:14:33] And then occasionally, they didn't know what to do. And when I talked, people listened.
[02:14:38] It's that I think more than than it being contentious or bogged down. It's actually the few times where, like, you know what? Damn.
[02:14:45] I don't know to do here. And that little vacuum that gets created is when you step in typically not when, you know, it's, it's not like me and flint arguing or or we're laughing at our arm wrestling over something.
[02:14:56] You're going to come in and they're judicated. It's actually when you see, oh, you know what, there's a, there's a place that that these guys, Dave isn't actually know to do here progress is not.
[02:15:05] Yeah, that's right. We're not moving in the, and, and I'm going to step in and do that for, for him or for the team or whatnot.
[02:15:11] And then, you know, typically this, the after conversation is, hey, there's some things I could have explained or there's a way that I could have set you up to be more successful.
[02:15:18] And that, that situation.
[02:15:20] But this, the, the comment of, it's almost always preferred to lead from the rear.
[02:15:24] That is met with heavy resistance. We use a version of that. I explained that to the key, you know, when we work in a lot of companies, a lot of times we're working with really senior leaders.
[02:15:34] See, sweet, you know, executive CEOs, high low in the organization. They don't like the idea of not leading from the front.
[02:15:42] And what they typically complain about the most is that they don't have enough time to anything.
[02:15:47] And it's always that they can't get everything done that they want to get done.
[02:15:51] And it's, for that reason alone is that they're in charge of everything, which is why they don't have time and why their teams are underperforming,
[02:15:59] or why they're struggling and why they, they need that help. But that comment of, don't, you know,
[02:16:05] that's preferred a lot of times and not being the front is, there's kind of that a meter reaction.
[02:16:10] I don't like the way that sounds. You have to explain what that means.
[02:16:13] Yeah, because you get told that all the time.
[02:16:16] All that, I mean, how common is the freight lead from the front lead from the front lead from the front.
[02:16:19] Day one, Marine Corps training lead from the front. Day one, especially in officer training, like that is it from the beginning.
[02:16:25] And, you know, we are, you know, complimented on, you know, this iron mic. He's out in front. He's got its arm up. He's pointed with the weapon.
[02:16:33] It's the follow me, you know, mantra, a mindset that's all throughout military training.
[02:16:38] And just like you described, that doesn't mean that you don't have to step into that.
[02:16:42] But when you actually supposed to do that is when there's a vacuum and a void, that's where you go, hey, I have to get out in front of this.
[02:16:48] That happens if your people are well trained and resourced. That doesn't actually happen very often.
[02:16:53] It actually happens about seven times every three years.
[02:16:56] It's kind of the rate that you should be thinking that you need to be out front.
[02:16:59] Because for the rest of the time, if you're actually doing your job, those vacuuming voids aren't there.
[02:17:04] Now, if you're adjudicating conflict, those might be some other things, but it's really the vacuums of decisions.
[02:17:09] When you're people like, you know what boss? I got to be honest with you.
[02:17:12] I don't know what to do here, or you see or feel that is where you need to get out front.
[02:17:16] That doesn't happen all that often.
[02:17:18] It also means, as you said earlier, what the minute I have to go, okay, here's where we need to go.
[02:17:24] I'm 20 seconds later, I'm thinking myself, okay, I'm not doing a good job of explaining the intent here.
[02:17:31] That's right.
[02:17:32] And the team wants me to know what's right.
[02:17:34] Yeah, this is this is on me.
[02:17:36] And I need to make that more clear, which usually that whatever situation unfolded is a real opportunity to say, hey, look, this is what this is what we need to do.
[02:17:45] And here's why. So, next time we see this, we know what to do.
[02:17:49] And if you've cultivated all these other things that we've been talking about that you wrote about here,
[02:17:54] those times that you as the leader step in, your team doesn't resent it.
[02:17:57] And they're not annoyed or frustrated with you. They're thankful and they're glad.
[02:18:00] So the explanation is way easy. It's a huge deposit.
[02:18:04] And you don't have to worry about doing those things because nobody pushes back on it.
[02:18:08] They're actually relieved, man, I was there hitting a brick wall here.
[02:18:11] And that's actually what I needed as opposed to, he's in my business and tell me what to do, which is the exact opposite of what you're talking about here,
[02:18:18] which actually happens. If you think you need to be in front of all the time,
[02:18:21] which you're doing more off than not 93% of the time, you're stepping on people's toes in your hurting them in the long run.
[02:18:28] Yeah.
[02:18:28] Rather than be successful.
[02:18:30] Yeah, and we can cover it.
[02:18:32] I got a whole section on there on when to step up and lead.
[02:18:35] Like when do you actually have to fill that leadership back and how do you do it?
[02:18:39] And this is another one of those things that I reflected upon. I was like, yeah, here's what I'm so obvious to me.
[02:18:44] But never really articulated it because never really got asked that point into the question.
[02:18:52] Never got asked how do you shoot that weapon? Where do you put your hand?
[02:18:57] Where do you put your shoulder on that 240 gulf when you're engaging from a bipod?
[02:19:01] I never got asked, wait, when is it?
[02:19:03] Yeah. Everyone just sees you do it and they just think, okay, well, I kind of get that. But no, you need to write that stuff down.
[02:19:09] Yeah.
[02:19:10] For sure. This is a section that you were talking about earlier today.
[02:19:13] The section is called Don't Care.
[02:19:16] And it's a form of detachment.
[02:19:18] And now people know about it because of the idea of negotiations, you know, the ability to walk away from negotiations.
[02:19:25] Oh, you don't want to lower your price. Cool.
[02:19:27] Yeah.
[02:19:28] I'm going to keep this to.
[02:19:29] Yeah.
[02:19:30] But it, it, it's something that you can use as a leader.
[02:19:35] If you drill down, go to the book.
[02:19:39] If you drill down on things you care about, you will find that many of them are rooted in ego.
[02:19:45] Even the simplest examples.
[02:19:48] So like, when you're a leader, not caring as a powerful tool.
[02:19:52] You want to utilize your plan instead of mine cool.
[02:19:55] You want to, you want me to do some crappy job for you that others find to meeting?
[02:20:00] Fine.
[02:20:00] I don't care.
[02:20:01] Oh, you want me to give someone else the opportunity to lead a project?
[02:20:05] Awesome. I don't care.
[02:20:06] And then I'll give them a bunch of support.
[02:20:09] That, that's what it is.
[02:20:11] And once again, this kind of ties back into this idea of like this supreme level of confidence,
[02:20:17] which is when you can put your ego in check, when you can subordinate your ego, it's because you're so you have confidence.
[02:20:22] Yeah, and not caring when you're supremely confident is different than not caring.
[02:20:27] Yes, it's totally different.
[02:20:28] Yeah, yeah.
[02:20:29] Those are like, clickbait titles aren't they?
[02:20:32] Don't care and lead from the rear.
[02:20:34] Yeah.
[02:20:35] Those are clickbait titles.
[02:20:36] I just realized maybe I'll have to make echo.
[02:20:39] Can you make a, you know, a couple videos with those?
[02:20:41] Don't care and lead from the rear.
[02:20:44] Yep.
[02:20:45] There you go. Clickbait.
[02:20:46] But to your point, even though they sound clickbait,
[02:20:50] Yeah. And they, and they almost, I mean, can you imagine going in the Marine Corps?
[02:20:54] I mean, like, okay, lead from the rear and don't care.
[02:20:58] That's the opposite of everything that you would learn really later.
[02:21:01] Yeah.
[02:21:02] So, and not to mention, we talked for already 20 minutes today about the fundamental thing that you're doing as leaders,
[02:21:08] caring about your people.
[02:21:09] So, yeah, you have to read and fully understand what we're talking about here.
[02:21:13] Yes. In that section, get to read all those details.
[02:21:15] The idea of when you say, I don't care about you asking me to do a demeaning task.
[02:21:20] It means I'll do anything.
[02:21:22] I don't care what it is because I'm here to help the team win.
[02:21:25] Not the passive aggressive, I don't care, and not caring.
[02:21:29] It was a, it was fun.
[02:21:31] It was fun. The last mustard in Australia.
[02:21:33] There was a lot of this going on.
[02:21:34] And it was cool because, yeah.
[02:21:36] We know we, you, you rewind three or four monsters ago and all of a sudden,
[02:21:40] someone saying, I want my slide here.
[02:21:44] Or, hey, I want to use this font.
[02:21:46] Or, you know, I need this much time to cover this topic.
[02:21:51] And this time, it was just, hey, how much time do you need to cover that?
[02:21:55] I don't care.
[02:21:56] I remember there was some conversation, and I think Jamie was like,
[02:22:00] hold on. She was doing the calculation for how much time each person gets for each slot.
[02:22:04] And she's at wait, Choco.
[02:22:05] This thing that I gave you 45 minutes,
[02:22:08] can you cover it?
[02:22:10] It actually turns out to be only 20 minutes.
[02:22:12] And I was like, cool, though, care.
[02:22:14] Like, it literally doesn't matter.
[02:22:16] Yeah.
[02:22:17] You want me to, I'll talk about this subject for 20, or 45.
[02:22:19] It's fine.
[02:22:20] And oh, wait, someone else wants to cover that topic.
[02:22:22] Cool. I don't care.
[02:22:23] Let's do it.
[02:22:24] Whatever you want to do.
[02:22:25] Yeah.
[02:22:26] Or, it's easier for these guys if they did it this way.
[02:22:29] But it can affect you a little bit.
[02:22:30] Cool.
[02:22:31] Yeah.
[02:22:32] What about all of it?
[02:22:33] Is it easier for them?
[02:22:33] Do it.
[02:22:34] No factor.
[02:22:35] No care.
[02:22:36] Yeah.
[02:22:37] That's a great attitude to have.
[02:22:38] Great attitude to have.
[02:22:40] Man, it makes your life easy.
[02:22:41] I mean, think about if you impose that or not impose it.
[02:22:44] But if you utilize that with your wife, right?
[02:22:47] Gotta be careful, though.
[02:22:48] Well, yeah.
[02:22:49] The word you can tone.
[02:22:50] Yeah.
[02:22:51] And there's also, there's also trapping where get real specific
[02:22:53] in the domestic scenarios unfolding.
[02:22:55] Yes.
[02:22:56] This will make my wife mad.
[02:22:58] What do you want for dinner?
[02:22:59] Don't care.
[02:23:00] That actually, my wife doesn't like that.
[02:23:02] Yeah.
[02:23:02] You know, so what do I want for dinner?
[02:23:05] Well, steak.
[02:23:06] Go.
[02:23:07] Let's go to a steakhouse.
[02:23:08] Yeah.
[02:23:09] That's cool.
[02:23:10] She can, uh, she can lead by negation, right?
[02:23:13] No, I don't want steak.
[02:23:15] Right.
[02:23:16] Cool.
[02:23:17] Let's go get something else, right?
[02:23:19] Yeah.
[02:23:20] Yeah.
[02:23:20] Yeah.
[02:23:20] So, well, it seems like don't care saying that.
[02:23:23] Right.
[02:23:24] Being like that is different if someone really wants a net.
[02:23:26] Actual answer from you.
[02:23:27] Yeah.
[02:23:28] There's gotta be a better way to phrase it in a domestic scenario.
[02:23:31] So, I think the way you phrase it in a domestic scenario is right here.
[02:23:35] That sounds good.
[02:23:36] Yeah.
[02:23:37] But think about that.
[02:23:39] Yeah.
[02:23:40] You can't be good.
[02:23:41] Can we get a camera?
[02:23:42] I know what doing it.
[02:23:43] Menely.
[02:23:44] You're the same attitude.
[02:23:45] Menely the same thing.
[02:23:46] Hey, do you want to watch this rom com tonight?
[02:23:49] I don't care what we watch as long as I'm with you.
[02:23:52] Yeah, that's good.
[02:23:53] But I don't want to say it's better.
[02:23:55] Is that sounds good?
[02:23:56] Yeah.
[02:23:57] Yeah.
[02:23:58] That sounds good.
[02:23:59] I might not buy it.
[02:24:00] On the rom com.
[02:24:01] Yeah.
[02:24:02] But that's what we're saying.
[02:24:03] So, let's go domestic scenario.
[02:24:04] I'm going to say that's good.
[02:24:06] I don't know.
[02:24:07] Sounds good.
[02:24:08] Hey, do you want to go out to the foothoo new Italian restaurant?
[02:24:13] Sounds good.
[02:24:14] Just think of that right there.
[02:24:16] Look, you might not even eat because you're not going to go out.
[02:24:18] You're not going to go out and say hey, I want to get up.
[02:24:20] Can you just inject me with diabetes right now with a plate of pasta?
[02:24:24] You're not thinking that.
[02:24:26] But you know what?
[02:24:27] What is it worth?
[02:24:28] Because the reality is order the chicken parmesan and don't eat the pasta.
[02:24:31] What?
[02:24:32] Mm-hmm.
[02:24:33] Borderline, but we're still good.
[02:24:34] We're still in there.
[02:24:35] We're still like maintaining.
[02:24:36] Yeah.
[02:24:37] Well, so that sounds good.
[02:24:38] Is it in close to home right now?
[02:24:39] Like, again, the...
[02:24:40] I don't...
[02:24:41] Because technically it fundamentally goes against pretty much anything.
[02:24:44] Well, in my situation that my wife even lives for.
[02:24:48] Like the whole idea, I don't care.
[02:24:49] Right?
[02:24:50] You got to care.
[02:24:51] That's what I'm saying.
[02:24:52] That's why sounds good.
[02:24:53] Yeah.
[02:24:54] That sounds good.
[02:24:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's correct.
[02:24:55] But it's the same attitude, but you keep that, you know,
[02:24:58] you can.
[02:24:59] That under wraps echo Charles.
[02:25:01] Yes, sir.
[02:25:02] Just...
[02:25:03] Hey, that sounds good.
[02:25:04] That sounds good.
[02:25:05] Yeah, that sounds good.
[02:25:06] Hey, that sounds good.
[02:25:07] Hey, do you...
[02:25:08] What is...
[02:25:09] Oh, yeah, does your wife likes to watch reality television?
[02:25:11] From time to time.
[02:25:12] Right.
[02:25:13] So, when she says, hey, hun, real housewives of Orange County.
[02:25:18] Seven is on.
[02:25:20] My man.
[02:25:21] Mm-hmm.
[02:25:22] Do you want to watch it?
[02:25:23] That sounds good.
[02:25:24] Yeah.
[02:25:25] There you go.
[02:25:26] Well, see you in there, right?
[02:25:27] Play the game a little bit.
[02:25:28] Yeah.
[02:25:29] Yeah.
[02:25:30] Okay.
[02:25:31] Cool.
[02:25:32] Good tips, right?
[02:25:33] Check.
[02:25:34] Next section.
[02:25:35] No, what is important and what isn't.
[02:25:38] One of the things that distinguishes a black belt in GJ2 from a white belt is the black belt's
[02:25:42] understanding of what is important and what isn't.
[02:25:44] A black belt sees past insignificant movements, ignores trivial actions and focuses on what actually matters.
[02:25:51] A good commander on the battlefield does the same thing.
[02:25:54] The commander can tell when the enemy is shooting.
[02:25:56] When the enemy shooting is merely reconnaissance by fire, a good commander understands when the enemy
[02:26:02] movement is just deploy, a good commander ignores things that will not have an impact on the battle.
[02:26:08] Like the black belt and the battlefield commander, any good leader must be able to do the same thing.
[02:26:13] Discriminate between what is important, what is not.
[02:26:15] For a leader in any situation, changes are everywhere, both external and internal.
[02:26:21] External changes can occur in the environment.
[02:26:23] The behavior of the enemy, the market, the weather or the timing of a scenario.
[02:26:27] Internal changes can be emotions of individuals, relationship dynamics or the morale of the team.
[02:26:31] Change is the reality of life, almost everything is in constant state of flux.
[02:26:36] And it is crucial.
[02:26:37] It is a crucial part of the leader's job to figure out which changes are important and which changes are mere distractions.
[02:26:42] This is not always easy to do.
[02:26:43] I see leaders get caught up in all the time and things that do not matter.
[02:26:46] They waste their time and energy on meaningless events or minor problems that will not impact the overall results they are trying to achieve.
[02:26:52] A black belt in GJ2 is a master of energy conservation.
[02:26:56] Not one movement is wasted defending against attacks that do not matter.
[02:26:59] Leaders must do the same thing.
[02:27:02] Try to give a little insight on how to actually do this a good leader detaches and elevates above the tactical situation
[02:27:14] where they can see what really matters.
[02:27:16] Before they dive into a problem, they ask themselves questions.
[02:27:19] How will this problem impact the team's strategic goals?
[02:27:23] Can it cause mission failure?
[02:27:25] Is it worth my time and effort to engage in?
[02:27:28] How bad can it get if I leave it alone?
[02:27:31] The answers to such questions should make it obvious to a leader if a problem requires their involvement.
[02:27:37] A good rule to follow is that the leader should air on the side of not getting involved in problems.
[02:27:43] The goal is always to allow problems to get solved at the lowest level.
[02:27:46] When subordinates are solving low-level problems, it allows the leader to focus on more important strategic issues.
[02:27:53] There you go. And of course there's a big honor to be with that because if you become too detached and you don't pay attention to any of the problems, you can have some issues.
[02:28:03] The next section is called principles.
[02:28:07] Again, we're getting more and more granular, like as each section goes by, talk about who's the most important team member in a team.
[02:28:16] We've said it already, but this is all under strategy. These are all the frame of mind.
[02:28:24] The mind sets you as a leader should have for all these things.
[02:28:27] This isn't prescript of in every single situation. There is a dichotomy with everything.
[02:28:32] There are circumstances which will drive you to be heavily involved in things.
[02:28:37] But it's the mindset of how do I want to view my role as a leader as a leader?
[02:28:41] That's the strategic part of this and why it fits in there. And that's why if you don't know and you're looking for a place to buy us.
[02:28:47] Buying us in that direction doesn't mean a hundred percent of the time.
[02:28:50] That isn't the answer all the time. And this isn't the tactical solution of what's going on.
[02:28:55] It's how you should perceive your role as a leader and what your bias should be for an then tactical situation.
[02:29:01] Might change and you might need to get more or less involved and do a whole bunch of different things.
[02:29:04] And that certainly comes later.
[02:29:06] That mindset and we kept saying frame of mind from the beginning is crucial to understanding why this sits in the book the way it does.
[02:29:12] Even shooting a 240 goal for the by pod.
[02:29:16] There are times when you are going to whatever you are going to get that thing off the by pod and shoot you there's things that you're going to do.
[02:29:25] You have to understand that this what the strategy is and then yes absolutely right you have to use your brain.
[02:29:33] Yeah. Fortunately the more you understand the strategies and the more tactics you know and understand the more effectively you can use your brain to overcome some of these scenarios that unfold in the real world.
[02:29:47] Yeah.
[02:29:48] The lower down in the organization the more tactical the behaviors of those people are and to the point that sometimes you might have a machine gunner that really doesn't understand much of the big picture at all.
[02:29:57] But when you have the time to go down there after they've made some tactical decision especially if it's a good tactical decision and you can explain hey.
[02:30:05] What you did made a huge impact upstream the organization you made a massive help a support for the largest or key to goal when you can make the connection for them.
[02:30:15] And they recognize how what they're doing this time little tasks that seems almost mean or small actually.
[02:30:20] It makes a contributes to the big picture how powerful that is to be able to continue to be more and more and more detached and they continue to do things without your help because they know what they're doing and how it affects the connection to their tactics and the strategy your ability to explain that.
[02:30:35] Makes huge headway with them.
[02:30:40] So we get into section three and again talk about the most important team member talk about span of control so people understand what the best way is to do that.
[02:30:49] Talk about taking care of your people with discipline.
[02:30:53] Discipline is the best way to take care of your people from day one as a leader in the military you are told over and over again you have to take care of your people.
[02:31:00] But some leaders get confused about what that means.
[02:31:03] They think taking care of your people means making sure they are comfortable and happy.
[02:31:07] Coddling them giving them as much time office possible and not pushing them hard this is wrong. In fact the opposite is true.
[02:31:19] In the sealed teams if you really care about your people you won't coddle them at all you will push them hard you will train them hard you will make sure they understand the tactics of war and the weapons and radio as they will operate.
[02:31:26] You will ensure they are in top physical condition and prepared for the mental and emotional stress combat you will do everything your power to prepare them for combat so they can so they so you can give them the highest probability.
[02:31:37] That they and the rest of the team return from the battlefield.
[02:31:41] If you really care about your people you want them to go home to your to their families.
[02:31:46] The best way to make that happen is to hard training.
[02:31:49] That comes from discipline. The same thing is true in business while lives might not be on the line if you really want to take care of your people you need to push them.
[02:31:57] You need to make sure they understand their jobs.
[02:31:59] You need to drive them toward their goals. If they fail professionally they fail to achieve their financial goals.
[02:32:04] They cannot take care of their families or provide for them the way they want to. So when you are a leader the best thing you can do is push them toward their goals.
[02:32:22] Because I say over and over again the discipline shouldn't be imposed on people and it usually has a bad outcome or at least has a negative taste and leaves a negative taste in people's mouth when you impose discipline on them.
[02:32:38] So going back to the book optimal discipline in a team is not imposed by the leader it is chosen by the team itself. Optimal discipline is self discipline but teams do not always have self discipline. They may not understand the rewards that come with it.
[02:32:53] When that happens it may be necessary for a certain level of discipline to be carefully applied and imposed so the team understands the benefits and I kind of go through.
[02:33:07] You do that how do you impose that discipline without leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouth? Good methodology. It's also a good way this kind of leads into the next topic which is pride.
[02:33:20] Because pride is a powerful force when people have pride it can change an organization going back to the book if there is pride the team polices itself.
[02:33:32] The team will not allow substandard performance anyone who slacks off is corrected not by the leadership but by the team itself that is the power of pride.
[02:33:42] What then of a team that lacks pride perhaps it doesn't have a storied history perhaps it doesn't have a history of victory to hold high what then.
[02:33:53] It is one of the most critical tasks as a leader to instill pride in your team. How do you do that? How can you build the morale of troops and create the strong bonds of pride that resulted in attitude where everyone on the team gives more than what is required.
[02:34:08] Because that's the truth right there right you have a team that has pride they're given more and their self policing you have a team that doesn't have pride they're given the minimum the minimum.
[02:34:19] The self policing part of that is is so powerful when you don't need to impose any correction on your team simply because they care enough to do it themselves.
[02:34:30] Yeah, as I've talked about on this podcast before the amount of times that I had to talk to a guy in task in a bruiser because they would late is zero right was guys late. Yeah, but it never made it to me right they were getting tightened up all the front lines right.
[02:34:47] Oh, guy doesn't have his gear square away cool that you think I was down there counseling that person no they were getting tightened up old school.
[02:34:53] They were not going to make that mistake again why pride.
[02:34:57] So how do you get how do you how do you establish pride back to the book the answer simple you give them the opportunity to earn it pride is not developed simply by telling team members that they are great or by hanging up banners all the banners and signs and flags mean nothing.
[02:35:12] If they earn earned to build pride within a team you have to put the members in situations that require unity strength and perseverance to get through you have to push them in training to a point where they are truly tested and in that they will develop pride in what they have accomplished.
[02:35:33] I'm skipping forward to another section here it's called yes men.
[02:35:42] As a leader you should not want to be surrounded by yes men people who agree with everything you say as a subordinate you should not be a yes man so this is like the counter to the whole.
[02:35:54] I got that you want me to do that extra paperwork you want to cover there yeah that's totally true and here we go on the other direction.
[02:36:04] As a subordinate you should not be a yes man you should speak up when something doesn't make sense this concept sometimes readers because essentially what I am saying here is that subordinate should always be pushing back against their leaders always asking their leaders why things are being done a certain way and always offering up information and recommendations from their perspective on the front line.
[02:36:23] That scares some leaders some leaders would rather just have their subordinates do exactly what they are told to do but that is a bad idea.
[02:36:33] So I get this all the time that makes people nervous but the problem is when you're surrounded by yes men it's your brain against the world and your brain is not strong enough.
[02:36:48] You're going to make bad plans bad decisions and if all you have as a bunch of people that say yes boss you're right you're going to end up in a bad situation.
[02:36:56] Yeah and leaders who aren't surrounded by yes men who are surrounded by people who are willing to push back.
[02:37:02] worst case scenario for them is things don't go well they regroup they come up with it to solve the problem they move forward they might have some back and forth but it's not catastrophic.
[02:37:20] So the recognition to is a leader that if you actually really care about winning which a lot of times drives the ego.
[02:37:35] I don't want people pushing back against my plans because I think I might like dumb actually you do because what you really want to do is be successful.
[02:37:52] I just when they want to hear just kind of move past it the failures they see is when companies they lose everything.
[02:38:07] I'm going to explain how to do that what is this sound like so you'll have the ability to speak properly and not develop an antagonistic relationship with your boss.
[02:38:22] I know one more little section here for this part of the book for the strategy part.
[02:38:41] I know that there are no bad units only bad officers.
[02:38:53] There are no situations and no exceptions where a subordinate is ultimately responsible for the performance of a team it is always the leaders fault and hey imagine what I went through to write that sentence.
[02:39:06] That's a bold sentence. There are no situations and no exceptions where a subordinate is ultimately responsible for the performance of a team it is always the leaders fault.
[02:39:20] I believe me I have racked my brain hopefully maybe someone will come up with an example where that's wrong I haven't figured one out yet.
[02:39:29] Going on that being said there is an exception to the rule that there are no bad teams only bad leaders the exception is that it is possible to have a good team that delivers outstanding performance despite a bad leader.
[02:39:44] How does that happen if leadership is the most important thing in the success or failure of a team it happens when there are subordinates in the team who lead regardless of their rank.
[02:40:11] And despite bad leadership, despite bad leadership.
[02:40:16] So we are approaching three hours I think right now and we just finished so that that good place to take a break and we will get back to.
[02:40:30] So we finished the strategy part of leadership strategy and tactics and on the next podcast we will cover part two leadership tactics.
[02:40:42] In the meantime I guess if you like listening to us I'm going to be talking some more at some live events around the country.
[02:40:56] Does that sound like a tour? Yes. Classic.
[02:41:01] Classic example of what not to do. What did I do? I said hey we're not a rock band we're not going on tour and guess what I'm doing now going on tour.
[02:41:10] Kind of do as a live gigs January 6 and DC January 11th in Austin January 16th in New York January 20th in LA January 27th in Seattle and January 28th in SF some of the gigs already sold out go to jockellive.com.
[02:41:29] If you want to come and get engaged it's called decisive engagement that's the name of the event the tour decisive engagement.
[02:41:41] Yeah the events the tour the decisive engagement tour.
[02:41:45] So I will be talking I will be answering questions meeting with you looking forward to it getting to those cities and hanging out with y'all.
[02:41:56] And what else we talked about leadership today.
[02:42:00] Yeah. What about leading ourselves? Is there anything you know what can we do to lead ourselves?
[02:42:06] We can do many things a lot a lot but some jiu-jitsu references.
[02:42:11] Yeah in the old leadership strategy once again amazing how jiu-jitsu is a thread that is runs through everything.
[02:42:19] Jiu-jitsu is life. Participate in life right. So yes you join in jiu-jitsu we're doing jiu-jitsu still people everyday daily semi daily twice daily sometimes people say hey I am either thinking about it or I just joined.
[02:42:35] So when you join you're going to need a gig this is the last of a question by the way because we all know this so we're going to get an origin gig get it from origin main.com.
[02:42:48] There you go boom jiu-jitsu that's one thing is wearing jeans a way to get better.
[02:42:57] I will say this if you're wearing jeans that a are allowing you complete freedom of movement right that's one thing we try to do to the enemy in a war.
[02:43:07] We try to limit their freedom of movement.
[02:43:10] Yes and jiu-jitsu by the way.
[02:43:11] The jiu-jitsu we try to limit our opponents freedom of movement. So why would you actually voluntarily put on a garment that restricts your freedom of movement you don't want to do that.
[02:43:20] That's why getting origin jeans which have stretch in them. You know you can't tell from looking out.
[02:43:30] It's not like you look at them you go all those are kind of some high fashion thing.
[02:43:34] No they look like a pair of work jeans but guess what you're fully mobile you're not pin down slight fashions.
[02:43:41] When you're wearing them you don't you know I'm just saying you kind of can smell some fashion on them depends on who's wearing them.
[02:43:49] Me. Okay yeah but you kind of stink of fashion.
[02:43:53] When my lovely wife is giving me a thorough evaluation of my aesthetic value at any given time while wearing these origin jeans.
[02:44:04] The fashion element is prevalent.
[02:44:08] Well good. So I'm glad you like that but to answer your question because I wasn't talking about fashion. I was talking about function.
[02:44:20] Functionally yes we're good to go this is a positive thing this is a positive thing in your life on top of that.
[02:44:23] Why not doing something? Why not do something where you are actually helping the country that you live in become a better place.
[02:44:32] Why would you not do that? Why would you not support the very country that provides you with the freedom to move.
[02:44:39] So you get a pair of jeans that give you the freedom to move and then you support the nation that provides you with that freedom to move.
[02:44:47] The freedom to do is you're going to come to Echo's defense just a little bit here because you guys both know I can't give away my source but I might already have those jeans you're talking about with that little stretch little.
[02:44:58] I got a little advanced you got Delta 68. Yes. Okay. Check. Sorry. Let's cool.
[02:45:06] I got a little. I got a little.
[02:45:10] And you guys both know I don't do jeans. I do shorts and basically 99% of the time. I gave the caveat was well if I ever got a pair of jeans I ever wanted to wear.
[02:45:19] Maybe I'd wear jeans. Well, they showed up. I put them on my wife who I don't know the last I honestly do not know the last time she's seen me wear a pair of jeans. It is years she said.
[02:45:31] Dang those look good. That's our first thing she said. So I understand where you're coming from. I didn't wear for the fashion but the first words out of her mouth were those look good.
[02:45:42] I mean, they're not that it's a layer difference between they look sharp and fashion. Yeah, you don't you got triggered by the fashion word.
[02:45:53] Yeah, I say that actually that's saying a lot of Dave Burk mean or Dave Burke came shooting at the gun range with me straight up shorts flip flops. So that I can confirm that whole notion that he does not wear jeans
[02:46:11] shorts and flip flops are his main. What do you see? Modus mode situation unless yes, that is true about the jeans. I don't have the Delta 68.
[02:46:21] You should be getting them soon. They're in production. Actually they're live right now by the time this podcast come up. Well, that's it. I'm just saying Dave has them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what you should do build better relationships.
[02:46:36] And he's not doing it. He's not doing it so he can get jeans. That happens to be a by product. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're talking about Delta 68 jeans are the lightweight jeans. There's there's regular jeans, which is like when I go to Montana, I wear the regular jeans when I am in southern California or the more temperate regions of America and actually most of the time, it's the Delta 68 lightweight jeans.
[02:47:00] Right, it's good. I look forward to that Brian Pete. Oh, you know, wait wait. That would be Pete. Yes, that would be Pete. Oh, both you guys just sight known more so much to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, real play real play real player would know the people on the front.
[02:47:18] And for you, echo just as your as you're looking projecting down the road. You're a relationship building. Yes. When things show up unrequested or unsolicited. That means you're winning. You gotta go out.
[02:47:30] Just form and say, get these to me. You're not winning as much as when like wow. Thank you very much for this. Yeah, it's interesting is I mean, what's interesting is when is the last time you just shipped a nice little box of, you know,
[02:47:43] Jockel podcast T shirt out to Pete. Yeah, that's true. You know, Sam. He's looking at you like, well, you know, yeah, we don't even have a relationship with liquid.
[02:47:52] Quit pro quo here. Yeah. All right. There you go. Hey, these are all good tips. I'm learning check. You ever you're fine people when people say, I'm I'm learning, you know, like almost like it's like almost like a cop out for their bad behavior. I'm still learning. I never really thought about, but I just kind of felt that.
[02:48:09] I felt it too in man anyway. Jeans are they are awesome regardless of my relationship or lack there of with Pete and Brian and everyone at origin.
[02:48:23] Speaking of supplementation. We also supplementation at origin and actually speaking of triggered Dave Burke, Mister, you know, hey, trying to keep it clean and professional in one of the outtakes was describing how much he liked strawberry milk and he dropped an F.
[02:48:44] I mean, like a full flat with authority and passion. Well, for the people who know me and how almost never, I say that word certainly public setting that just indicates how much I still like strawberry.
[02:48:59] Yeah. And you only mix it with milk strawberry milk and shake it up and you're good. That's it. I hear all these stories of all these concoctures. Everybody's just it's milk and milk in a cup and you just and it's like every time the F bomb just because I made one the other day.
[02:49:21] And this was a little violation here. Whatever. I'm coming clean to the world. So I had you ever eat dinner and you're like, you know, not only was it not satisfying in volume.
[02:49:36] It's also unsatisfying in taste, right? And I'm not going to call out the person that executed this thing that I'm married to, but it was not the deal. So I got done and I had like not just a craving for more food, but tasty food.
[02:49:53] So I made this milk. I made this is right at milk peanut butter milk.
[02:50:05] Two scoops of peanut butter and then two scoops of vanilla ice cream. This thing was ridiculous. It was so good that I shared which is which is to the whole other thing. I said to my son, I said, hey, I got you got to try this.
[02:50:23] Oh, that okay. And then he because normally if it's just really, really good. I'm, no, this is all mine. I made it. I paid for it. I created it. It's mine. Right. You want you, you, hey, there's go get go mix one. This was so good. I said no, you, I want to give this away.
[02:50:39] So I was like, I would try this. Yeah, makes it. And he said when he drank it. Oh, my God. But you shifted to a little bit of short term there. A little short term.
[02:50:51] Oh, the ice cream man, the ice cream. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just a little bit. Not too much. Though that's kind of the good thing. I think well, I think what it was was you just, you get that coloric deficit. Oh, yeah, you're not just thinking man that dinner was just didn't have enough.
[02:51:08] So I'm getting crazy. So yeah, man, guys up amongst smoke. Sounds like a justification. But yeah, man, also a juggle white tea. You know, in the event of you wanting something light, you know, if you're going to cut a lower deficit, this might not help you in that regard might not.
[02:51:24] Yeah, but it might give you a little kicker. You know, give you kick. There's some caffeine in it. Yes, sir. And will you feel like a food snob and start looking down on other people when you get done drinking a juggle IT because it's certified organic.
[02:51:37] Will you start looking down your nose a little bit at people potentially. And say, oh, that looks like a interesting snack you're having doesn't look very organic to me.
[02:51:48] But it is true nonetheless. Yes. Also, juggle has a store. It's called juggle store. This is where you can get shirts representative of the path directly representative by the way, just political freedom when I'm currently wearing.
[02:52:06] Good deal Dave. Good deal Dave. Good deal.
[02:52:09] We're representing big time anyway. There's a lot of good deal Dave. Sure. Totally.
[02:52:19] Yeah, I am representing. We got to make us sure we got to make a good deal. Dave just for her. That's just got your face on it. So she could just be stoked. My mom sent me a screen capture the other day. She got some sort of thing apparently Facebook tracks this, but when you comment more than other people, you get a notification that you're a top fan.
[02:52:38] She is one of your top fans. She got notified that she's a juggle top fan screen capture that's semi this says our lean is a juggle top fan.
[02:52:51] We need a good deal. Dave. Sure. With and speaking of which factually. So when's the new top gun come out summer of 2020. Oh, man. Okay. Well, we'll do what's the bet. We need to do a.
[02:53:06] That's the right recap of it right a breakdown of it. So we'll we'll do that. And what's the what do you think? When will it be out on like Netflix where we can like actually watch it as it's doing it and comment on it without violating the.
[02:53:21] You know, the copy right laws are well actually no you can do it whenever.
[02:53:25] It's long I don't know if it's in the theater. No, we need to be able to watch it on a computer right right. You can do it here. It's called commentary fair use. You can if you're doing commentary on something or yeah it's for you.
[02:53:38] Yeah, so we're in absolutely.
[02:53:40] We're going to sit in here. You're going to go line by line. You're going to explain stuff. I'm going to ask more people questions. Oh, yeah. I'll be all up in. Yeah, are you pumped for it. That's a good. I am. I am so. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wait, what's the way I forget if I asked you this, were you really into top gun the OG bro. That's why that's his entire life.
[02:53:58] I mean, the movie though, you mean when I was 14 and I stopped top, top gun did I think it was cool. No, well, no, I'm asking like more than that. Yes, that year jam for that was, yes, 100%.
[02:54:10] Because I do like one of my good friends from one of those little Eric masters still pilot to by the way.
[02:54:16] Oh, here for stop gun. That was his jam. I don't get what's house. It's in the VCR. It doesn't matter what service you're in. Air Force Navy and Marine Corps. If you watch top gun, that's why you want to be a pilot. Naval, AB, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It's kind of interesting. Dave was on the podcast before.
[02:54:34] And we talked to the entire thing and just kind of FYI that trajectory of Dave's entire life is kind of fundamentally rooted in the movie top.
[02:54:48] But I appreciate the question. It's cool. I'm saying, you know, I'm trying to build the relationship.
[02:54:56] And and Lave Babin is Navy Seals. He saw Navy Seals and it was super fired up for Navy Seals. Yeah. Why you so much roadhouse and lot. So I guess me. Yeah, that's how you can get the outs right in the same deal.
[02:55:09] Yeah, that's good. I like it. Yeah, maybe not. I don't know.
[02:55:14] Did you try to see yourself a little Patrick Swazie vibe Dalton, right? Dalton, I mean, in a way, but they always here's an ongoing thing about Dalton. They always tell them,
[02:55:24] Oh, I thought you'd be bigger. So I couldn't really. My whole thing was not to be the guy who they thought would be bigger.
[02:55:31] See, anyway, nonetheless, yeah, jockel store. Yeah, represent go there. Jockel store.com. If you like something. Yeah. Get something.
[02:55:41] Also, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. Is this important? Maybe maybe not, but it is. We'll say, useful.
[02:55:50] See, in the game, right? Right. Reviews of the podcast. That's a good way to give us feedback. Yes, sir. On the podcast. So you can write, hey, I think the support section should be much longer.
[02:56:03] I don't think I hear you talking enough about origin genes.
[02:56:08] I need way more info. Yeah, that's a lot. So if you want to add that to the commentary, go leave review to it.
[02:56:16] Go leave review. And don't forget, we have other podcasts. We got a podcast called the Grounded podcast, which Dave Burke has been on.
[02:56:24] It's not what people expect, apparently. Is it about you, Jitsu? Kind of. Is Jitsu about life very much. So what is it about then? About everything.
[02:56:35] Yeah, about life. Relaxed version. Like you're going to get relaxed to fit genes. If you're for genes were, um, constructive. I think those kidney genes. Yeah. Well, you can get relaxed fit.
[02:56:48] Right. This is the relaxed fit podcast. Oh, John. Jockel, but so the Jockel podcast is skinny genes and grounded.
[02:56:55] No, not at all. Are you sure? Is that what you're saying? Mostly.
[02:57:05] Jockel podcast is the is the fatigue is the uniform. All right.
[02:57:12] Yeah, you know what's caught me right there. Nice to be done. And we also have the Warrior Kid podcast. We got four new episodes.
[02:57:19] So check that out. And then there's Warrior soap Irish Oaks Ranch.com Warrior Kid soap, Aiden on a farm. And you want to learn on a farm?
[02:57:31] He learned that he needed to make soap. So he could stay clean.
[02:57:37] Don't worry. Yeah. It's good. Anyway, YouTube. If you want to know what Dave Burke looks like. We have a YouTube channel video version of this podcast. And yes, there are excerpts just in case you don't want to, you know, necessarily.
[02:57:51] I don't want to say you if you don't want to sit through the three four sometimes five sometimes five and a half hours of, you know, whatever we're talking about.
[02:58:00] I'm not saying that. I'm saying sometimes, you know, maybe we got other stuff to do that day. Yeah, so I'm saying so maybe you can watch some excerpts on YouTube channel.
[02:58:10] I'll see you can get psychological warfare, which is now, which will help you through moments of weakness. Also, you can get flip side canvas dot com decoder Meyer.
[02:58:22] From podcast 115, he has a company worth an American company, American made graphic representations of the path and other cool looking stuff.
[02:58:34] So you can check that out. Got some books.
[02:58:38] We've been reviewing leadership strategy in tactics field manual. Dave Burke was the first one of the first people. Actually, you, I think you might have been the first person to read some semblance of it.
[02:58:49] I can see by your reaction today, it's approved approved.
[02:58:54] And then there's the way of the warrior kid series, way the warrior kid one two and three. Those are all, you know what, you can get your kids on the path right now.
[02:59:04] You can point them on the path. You're not going to impose this one. What you're going to have to, it will work for you.
[02:59:10] Get your kids, get your nephew, your niece, some random kid down the street, get those kids, the warrior kid books. It's, the feedback that I get of the impact that it's having is beyond comprehension.
[02:59:25] It's awesome.
[02:59:27] Then you can help a kid, can help a kid so much. Get them those books.
[02:59:32] If you got a little kid, get a mic in the dragons.
[02:59:35] So that when the entire world is something to be afraid of, they learn how to overcome fear.
[02:59:42] Then we got extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership, which are the books that I wrote with my brother, the life bag,
[02:59:50] and about leadership. Some of the principles that we talked about today, these are the fundamental versions of those.
[02:59:57] The discipline goes freedom field manual.
[03:00:00] For the adult that needs to be on the path, that needs the reminder. Get that.
[03:00:06] And then there's Ashland front, which is our leadership consultancy, where we take all these things that we talk about.
[03:00:12] And we align leaders inside of organizations to work together and win.
[03:00:18] Go to echelonfront.com for details on that.
[03:00:22] EF online. What about EF online, Dave?
[03:00:25] One of the most common questions we get with those companies we're working with is what do we do when we're not with them?
[03:00:33] How do we continue to do this?
[03:00:35] It's really the question, how do we get reps?
[03:00:37] Leadership is a skill. It requires reps after reps after reps.
[03:00:41] And one of the best ways is EF online, because you can get all the reps you want with you in your team.
[03:00:47] EF online.com.
[03:00:49] It is online training, which sounds weak.
[03:00:53] I need to come up with a better name for it, right?
[03:00:56] But it is not weak when you do it.
[03:00:59] I thought it was going to be weak when we first came up with the ideas like, okay, well, we'll just kind of suffer through some weak technology and
[03:01:05] But no, it's not. It's totally legit.
[03:01:08] It's interactive. You actually have to answer questions. You have to actually make decisions.
[03:01:12] So EF online.com.
[03:01:13] We got the master leadership seminars, events, conventions that the entire echelon front team,
[03:01:22] Execute, go to extremownershop, ownership.com for details.
[03:01:27] Master 2020. This is where we're going to be.
[03:01:30] We are going to be in Orlando.
[03:01:34] We are going to be in Dallas.
[03:01:37] And we are going to be in Phoenix, Arizona.
[03:01:40] So if you want to come to one of those monsters, that's what we're doing.
[03:01:44] It's only three a year. We're not going to go to whatever random town you live in.
[03:01:48] You're going to have to come to us, because we're not a rock band.
[03:01:50] We're not on tour.
[03:01:52] Yeah, you, yes, you are.
[03:01:54] And then we have EF overwatch and EF Legion.
[03:01:59] Dave, EF overwatch and EF Legion. What do you think?
[03:02:03] What Mike Surelli is doing with that?
[03:02:06] And I told you about common question we get.
[03:02:10] The other common question is, hey, I want more people in my organization that are going to be on the path
[03:02:16] of the game. What can I do to do that? And for your, if you're in the military,
[03:02:20] looking for a way to do something that contributes everybody as much as it did in uniform,
[03:02:24] there's a way to do that. There are companies out there that need people like you.
[03:02:28] Right now, they need you. And for the companies that don't know where those people are,
[03:02:32] they actually all intersect in the same place.
[03:02:34] They intersect right there at, at, at what Mike Surelli built with,
[03:02:40] with Overwatch and Legion is where those people are to connect the people that need them,
[03:02:44] and people where they want to be, it is unreal. How much that is,
[03:02:48] is exploding in recognition of how important that is, man. It's awesome.
[03:02:52] And we're doing some things with EF Legion to EF Legion.
[03:02:56] If you're a vet or you're in right now, and you think you're ever going to have
[03:03:00] some other kind of job or you're ever going to get out of the military,
[03:03:02] which you are, I hate to tell you.
[03:03:04] Go to EF Legion.com right now and get yourself enrolled in the system.
[03:03:08] We're offering, we're going to be offering webinars on how to like,
[03:03:12] make that transition. You're going to have, you're going to be able to,
[03:03:14] other companies are going to be able to look at you as a candidate. They're going to be able to see you.
[03:03:19] And you're going to be able to see what they're looking for. So go to EF Legion.com for that.
[03:03:24] So, Legend. And if you still want to hear from us after, however many hours we've been talking,
[03:03:33] then we are all available on the interwebs on Twitter, on Instagram, and on that face.
[03:03:40] We're going to be going to be going to be on. Dave is at David Arborke. Echo is at Echo Charles.
[03:03:48] And I am at Jocca Willink and to all those military folks out there that are holding the line currently.
[03:03:58] And when I say currently, I mean right now, right this moment in time, there are folks out there holding the line and protecting freedom and democracy for us.
[03:04:09] So, to all of you right now, thank you for what you're doing. Same thing here at home.
[03:04:13] We got police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all those first responders.
[03:04:22] Same thing, holding the line, protecting us here on the home front.
[03:04:31] And last thing to everybody, this is a book about leadership.
[03:04:40] And guess what, everyone is a leader. You're leading your team, you're leading your family, you're leading your friends.
[03:04:48] That's what you're doing.
[03:04:52] So, pay attention to what you're doing. Get the right frame of mind.
[03:04:59] And then take that frame of mind and go out there and get after it.
[03:05:06] And until next time, this is Dave Burke and Deco and Jocco out.