Jocko Podcast 206 w/ Dick Thompson - The Stress Effect. Why Good Leaders Make Dumb Decisions

2019-12-07T08:21:06Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @hps_ceo 0:00:00 - Opening 0:01:18 - Dick Thompson. SOG. The Stress Effect. 2:30:24 - Final Thoughts and take-aways. 2:33:43 - How to stay on THE PATH JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men Jocko Supplements: https://originmaine.com/origin-labs/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ The Stress Effect (Book): https://amzn.to/2pCKocA 3:09:04 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

But that stress element, like it's almost even in GITZY have that if you compete in GITZY, if you don't know like when you're going to go on, you know, because it's like, oh, I'm so it's going right now. But on top of it, I would know, you know, I know who in my little, when you say in my circles, like I knew who didn't train and who did, just like we all do, you know. Yeah, just like, you know how like sometimes you're like, you don't know if like I has a weapon or something like that. And, you know, so getting the right person into the right role level at the right time, because if we think about cognitive ability for a lot of people is continuing to change. That feeling, it's that feeling, you know, but a little bit worse because if a guy's a web being kind of runaway, what a guy's going to, kind of, get your corpse you want o'er, all the way around and form a command, like you're sitting here and have to run away. And then, you know, triathlons are okay, but either, you know, Iron Man, the distances are considerably, you know, fathers, so I got into that. So it's like, you know, if you, if you live waste and you're going to do curls, you know, you get so echo approves of this. People just because people are from an organization like you know GE has that reputation for their leadership, but that doesn't mean that that person is necessarily a good leader and you have to be careful of that. And I was like, maybe, I don't know, nonetheless, I was like, because technically getting past someone's guard is just getting past your legs, just like what you said. So he, he started feeling like the, and I said, no, you don't need to go back on cocaine, you know, thinking of myself, you know, you can cocaine. I mean, strangers, I'd always be like, man, like, you know what I'm going to watch out. You know, when you're being there, I learned a lot about, you know, just to mechanize units and things like that. Whatever areas of weakness you have, if you can admit to them and bring people onto your team that can compliment that, and say, hey, you know, I'm not great talking to the troops dick, you know, can you get out there and deliver the work? And you need to study, you need to learn, you need to read, you need to practice, you need to rehearse, and you need to do that all the time, because you're never going to be good enough. And like you can, like I was, and I did a little demonstration where I'd be like, okay, this is like, all I got to do is get past your legs. They just want to know how it's going to go, you know? So the other question I want to ask is, when it relates to going, how do you keep that in check, at least, well, from your perspective for you, because now all of a sudden, you got guys that are walking around with a chess boat out, and you start get professional jealousy from the other company commanders and they're going to try and make you look bad and they're talking behind you. Like we kind of, you know, like we kind of put the smile on certain people's faces. I mean, they were going to the question for me was, in addition to the personal things that I wanted to do, like, you know, improve my skills. It was something about like, I think I don't know if these cats are people or what, but it was like they'd get a shock. But, you know, as military people, I think, you know, we have an obligation. So this idea right here that we all get, you know, you're going to get some qualities, but you're going to be missing some too. And, you know, it's going to get out of the way because that place was going to come alive. And again, see, this is why I think it's important to talk about this because if you can't relate to other people, if you're having a hard time talking to people up the chain of command, talking to people down the chain of command, talking to your peers, if you're saying, oh, they don't get it. So even though it might be a more complicated decision, the lower cognitive leader below me doesn't need to know that, they're going to get the simplified version that they can grasp and make sense to them and then move forward. You know, even with military units that have bad, that have battle streamers, that's, that's the pride that they've carried for 50 years, a hundred years since they did whatever, you know, thing in World War One or World War Two or Career Vietnam, that's something that that unit achieved and that gives them pride. One step because you're like, oh, like how many people know this. I know for a fact I see leaders get better become better leaders and be able to look at complex things and and start to understand that information doesn't need to be perfect. You know, in peace time, you need to know who they are. You know, you had to something earlier about, you know, echo which also probably got a knockout Twenty-two for us. So the more information you have about it, that's why people in the word, they're like asking all these questions like, I wasn't going to go. What else do we need to know about what you've got going on? Because what this does is, it makes someone say, well, you know, people think I'm arrogant, because I'm so smart, because I have high cognitive ability. And he comes over and you know, I'm sleuding and he says, you know, Captain Thompson, I, I want to see your fighting positions. You know when you actually shut your mouth and listen people will and you truly listen to what they're saying you can hear what their tone sounds like and pay attention to it. You know, at some point, if I have enough time between now and then to begin to put in something that may counter that, I know they're coming. So that, you know, I'm a big, I don't know what the right word is. It measures a bunch of different things that and just like some people are more articulate and some people are taller and some people are shorter. I mean, he's ramping and raven to the whole division about how great, you know, the Bravo Company looks and all the stuff and the pattern of a battalion commander going back and throwing my name out. And you know, and he talks and we talk about the things I've got the company to do and what I need them to do. And you know, the Canadian guy that I don't remember whose name right now, I think he has the record of a kill, like two point two miles. You know, you want to prepare them to the best of your ability for what they're going to face. Don't feel like you ever feel like I know one's really actually doing that. I really appreciate the opportunity to come, you know, talk about some of the things that went on in song and some of the leadership and other topics that we got on today. So, you know, whatever it is that I'm going to do out there that I expect you to do, I want to be doing it to the most of my ability. They give you a little time to recover and you know, eight months or so you're going to get orders to go back again.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 206 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink. Good evening, Echo. Good evening.
[00:00:09] And back for a third time is Henry Dick Thompson. I have to throw Henry in there just to make sure when people look for your book they'll be able to find it.
[00:00:22] So Dick Thompson, Sawgwarger, was on podcast 203 and 204. If you haven't listened to those, just go and listen them immediately.
[00:00:34] And you'll realize the magnitude of the fact that this individual is sitting here alive talking to me is just an absolute miracle.
[00:00:43] So go listen to 203 204 where you can hear about Dick's experiences as a Sawg team leader and team member in Vietnam.
[00:00:57] Where we left off was home from Vietnam and now checking in as a Ranger instructor, which for you was a great deal because you were going to have the opportunity to take.
[00:01:10] And then you listened to the Rangers and also home them for your own experience because you figured you were eight months away from going back to Vietnam.
[00:01:21] Yes. So this was my opportunity to get ready. And so I could be more focused next time. I could do a better job.
[00:01:30] Now when you said eight months, what was that based on? What was that when you say I was probably going back over in eight months? What was that based on?
[00:01:37] At that time, that was about to turn around right. You come back from Vietnam. They give you a little time to recover and you know, eight months or so you're going to get orders to go back again.
[00:01:50] And you're now, did you make captain yet? Or are you still?
[00:01:53] Yeah. I'm like captain.
[00:01:55] So now you made captain.
[00:01:58] You must be looking around at the guys that you deployed with and that you knew. I mean, you must be missing a lot of guys now. I mean, wounded, killed or missing an action. This has got to be just a tremendous number for you.
[00:02:12] When I look at the ones that that I knew that I consider teammates. I mean, we did things together.
[00:02:21] We knew each other. I have a list that I run for 35 names. Those are just the ones that I considered. You know, my personal friends and teammates. Now, seeing in. We lost a lot more people than that. I just, I didn't know them very well.
[00:02:42] But just the time I was there, you know, I got 35 names. I run for.
[00:02:50] And you got to have that in your back of your mind when you're training these young Rangers. You know what they're getting into. Even if it's not saw. You know, you want to prepare them to the best of your ability for what they're going to face.
[00:03:01] Yeah, because I knew at that time, I mean, that's, they were going to be at nine.
[00:03:05] I mean, there was no, no doubt, especially if they made it through the Rangers school.
[00:03:10] I mean, they were going to the question for me was, in addition to the personal things that I wanted to do, like, you know, improve my skills. What could I do for these guys to help them have a higher chance of surviving once they get there.
[00:03:28] So I kind of made that my mission. So you got, you got the normal instruction from a Ranger instructor plus.
[00:03:42] Then I added other things on it. And I said, you got to do this. We're not going to do this. This is how you talk business. I lead.
[00:03:49] So they got a lot of extra coaching and training whenever I led their group. And I just, I felt responsible to do that.
[00:03:58] What were some of the leadership principles that you focused on teaching the young Rangers?
[00:04:03] Some of it was, you know, you got to be accountable. These are your guys. You got to be accountable. You got to take responsibility. If you're going to lead them, you got to make sure you know what you're doing. You got to be physically fit. You got to be mentally fit. You need to know the tactics techniques.
[00:04:23] You need to be done for some. You need to encourage them. You need to build a team. You need to take care of them. You need to know everybody on your team. If you've got to put tune, you need to know everybody in the put town.
[00:04:35] And at that time, the army used to do issue a little green notebook pocket size notebook hardback that you put in your pocket.
[00:04:46] You know, every town, you need to have your people in here. You know, in peace time, you need to know who they are. Know something about them.
[00:04:54] So you can relate to them when they're having problems and how to train them, you know, the best. Know what their weak areas are. How you can build them up.
[00:05:02] Because you're accountable for them. There you are, people. And you're the guy that's the leader. You need to be the first one out there. And, you know, for me, I'm not going to ask you to do something I want to.
[00:05:15] I'm not going to go to you and say, pop out the door there playing here. If I'm not going to do it, you know, I tend to do more of follow me.
[00:05:27] You know, I'm going out there. I'm going to do it too. And I'm going to set the example for you. This is how I want you to do it.
[00:05:37] And so you're trying to get that through to them and trying to get through in terms of think of yourself as a professional.
[00:05:48] Think about your medical doctor.
[00:05:51] Every day you should be reading, learning, studying, getting better. Every technique that you know, you should be trying to improve it. Every day is about practice.
[00:06:04] Whatever it is that you're doing, ask you, is there somebody else better than you than you need to be practicing?
[00:06:10] You know, you got to get as good as the best because you want to be that person. And you don't get there by just wishing, hoping. You got to get out and take the action.
[00:06:21] Some of the things that you're going to be doing, particularly if we think, Ranger, special forces, seal.
[00:06:29] A lot of stuff to mind set. Some mind set. You've got to think like that.
[00:06:37] You can be in the greatest physical condition in the world. But if you don't have the mindset, you can't do it.
[00:06:44] And you guys are already seeing here in Ranger's go, how many of your buddies have already dropped out?
[00:06:50] When I went through Ranger's go, we started out with 248 people.
[00:06:56] When we finished, we had 175 actually make it to the end of the course.
[00:07:02] 75 of those got a Ranger down. Rust them didn't. So they only 75 Rangers, you know, produced. And it was mindset.
[00:07:12] It wasn't that they were bigger, stronger, faster. They had the mental capacity to keep going on one meal a day, three hours, sleep at night,
[00:07:22] keep pushing and still be able to think cognitively enough to put together a good tactical plan to communicate that plan and execute that plan.
[00:07:33] And it takes work. And you need to be the leader. So people follow you.
[00:07:39] So, you know, whatever it is that I'm going to do out there that I expect you to do, I want to be doing it to the most of my ability.
[00:07:49] If you're going to jump out of an airplane with a rope tied onto you to pull the parachute out, I'm going out from 30,000 feet.
[00:07:55] Hey, law.
[00:07:57] And that's what I do. If you have to have a landing on the size of a football field to get into, I'll cut it down to a third of that and do it in a dark.
[00:08:08] You know, I want you to say it can be done better. And if you can beat me, more power to you.
[00:08:15] Because now what you've done is tell me, I need to practice more. But you're going to make a word for it.
[00:08:19] Yeah.
[00:08:20] Yeah.
[00:08:20] That's the part that you said about being a professional and when I talk to young seals or young marines or soldiers or airmen, sailors, whoever, you know,
[00:08:30] I always say, I always say, you're a professional. And then I tell, this is your life.
[00:08:36] This right here is your life.
[00:08:38] Everything else is secondary to what you're doing right here. And you need to study, you need to learn, you need to read, you need to practice, you need to rehearse, and you need to do that all the time, because you're never going to be good enough.
[00:08:50] And you need to make this right here your life.
[00:08:56] You got a couple other notes in here.
[00:09:01] One of them just says, staff sergeant, Shelley.
[00:09:04] What's that all about?
[00:09:06] When I went through rangers go in the mountain phase, there was an African American ranger instructor there called Sergeant Shelley.
[00:09:19] Hardcore.
[00:09:21] Hardcore did rarely to leave pass anyone on patrol.
[00:09:26] And I had him, he graded me one time on my pass.
[00:09:30] When I came back from Vietnam and went to the ranger department, I ended up in the mountains, he ended up on my team.
[00:09:39] So now I've got the famous Sergeant Shelley on my team.
[00:09:44] I thought, man, this is cool.
[00:09:48] We go on a patrol where I'm grading a patina leader. He's grading a patina sergeant.
[00:09:55] It's 18 degrees outside. Shelley shows up, which he got his fatigue showed on, but he's got his sleeves rolled up.
[00:10:04] And he said, where's your Parker?
[00:10:08] I don't know how to Parker. Where are your gloves? I don't need gloves.
[00:10:13] It's 18 degrees.
[00:10:16] He said, okay. I'm fine. Hard, dude.
[00:10:22] And then we're out on patrol. The snow is almost in the ED.
[00:10:26] Greg and the rangers threw it. They're tired. They're cold.
[00:10:30] And so I call the next patrol leader. Next person's just going to take over the patina.
[00:10:36] And I say, all right, Ranger.
[00:10:38] Take after him out.
[00:10:40] And I want you to show me 10 digit coordinates to where we're standing right now, because you've got to know where you're starting from.
[00:10:48] And he kind of looks at me and I said, take your map out.
[00:10:52] I don't have a map, sir. Why don't you have a map?
[00:10:57] He said, well, Sergeant Shelley took my map when we stopped back there and we had to go ahead, man, because of the guy getting a frostbite.
[00:11:05] He took my map. We didn't go and Sergeant Shelley to give you a map back. Tell him you did it.
[00:11:11] I can't do that. That's why not.
[00:11:13] So, sorry, he built a fire with my map.
[00:11:19] I said, okay, then you need to find somebody here that's going to loan your map.
[00:11:23] You're going to be the patrol leader. You got to have a map.
[00:11:27] Back then, you could do a lot of things that you can't do now.
[00:11:34] Sergeant Shelley would take onions, cut them in half, rub them all over.
[00:11:42] He would eat garlic. He would take in some Kentucky fried chicken with him and the bag.
[00:11:49] And so when it was dark and the reindeer students, you only had to feed them once every three days back then.
[00:11:54] They put got to call them resupplies. They didn't get any food.
[00:11:57] Or if they called them for resupplies and they didn't ask for food, they just got ammunition.
[00:12:02] So they were always hungry.
[00:12:04] And you get under a poncho at night.
[00:12:07] And it's actually, all right, Andrew, show me where we are on the map.
[00:12:12] And the ranger would start to pour out where we're at.
[00:12:16] And nobody under the poncho can breathe.
[00:12:18] You know, Shelley smells so bad. You just seconded her breath, her eyes are watering.
[00:12:22] And the gas starts to pour out the water. They are on the map.
[00:12:25] And he drops his chicken leg on his finger.
[00:12:27] He says, don't you touch that chicken leg.
[00:12:30] Don't you dare lick your finger.
[00:12:32] Now, show me where you are.
[00:12:34] And he do things like that to him all the time.
[00:12:38] And he was, he would very good.
[00:12:41] But he would very hard.
[00:12:43] And then as I started to develop a similar reputation,
[00:12:47] they would hear about it for bending.
[00:12:49] And when they got to the mountain face and Shelley and I would walk in to take over the patrol
[00:12:55] for the next 24 hours.
[00:12:57] And we did introduce ourselves. You could see the looks on their face.
[00:13:01] Well, no. One's bad enough. We got both of them at the same time.
[00:13:05] No one's going to pass.
[00:13:07] But yeah.
[00:13:09] That I mean, Shelley is super guy.
[00:13:12] Really smart.
[00:13:13] And got another name down here. Bob Howard.
[00:13:16] Bob Howard, Medal of Honor winner.
[00:13:19] He was sawed down at the contume.
[00:13:24] And wounded like 13 times eight purple hearts.
[00:13:29] He was a tough guy.
[00:13:33] And he came up in a fluvial recline with us one time.
[00:13:39] And I had already heard some things about him.
[00:13:42] I thought, man, I'm kind of nervous about getting an helicopter with him.
[00:13:46] Because, I mean, he just draws boards.
[00:13:49] I mean, I'm sure he's going to save most of us.
[00:13:53] But you know, I might not be one. He's the hard dude.
[00:13:56] And then he came to Granger School when I was an instructor.
[00:14:00] So I liked him. He came through Ranger School.
[00:14:03] Yeah. So he came back from Sog.
[00:14:06] And it was coming through Ranger School.
[00:14:09] And I ended up grading him.
[00:14:12] You know, sign him.
[00:14:13] How many did I?
[00:14:14] I did a great job.
[00:14:16] But he was a hard dude.
[00:14:21] And then we went to the infantry officer at Vance Course.
[00:14:24] He was the, the, the, a company commander of my class.
[00:14:29] You know, so we were there for a year together like that.
[00:14:34] You know, he didn't believe in foul language.
[00:14:37] You got to clean your language up if you were in his organization.
[00:14:41] Did a lot of things.
[00:14:43] You know, he was promoted to captain.
[00:14:46] And retired as a full kernel.
[00:14:51] I ran to here at Vance School for a while.
[00:14:54] I did all, it's all kinds of things.
[00:14:56] But you know, he in 11 months he was put in for the Medal of Honor three times.
[00:15:03] Got it. Got it once. Got, you know, the DFCs for the other.
[00:15:08] A warrior.
[00:15:09] At one time, he was, I think he was the most decorated person on active duty.
[00:15:16] And then, you know, after him, I mean, he got cancer.
[00:15:19] And passed away. And then I think, um,
[00:15:24] Bargewell kind of took over as a most decorated for a while.
[00:15:30] So hardcore, song guy.
[00:15:34] So at what point did you decide this is going to be your career?
[00:15:37] Have you already decided that or you still thinking, well, I'll do another tour of Vietnam or
[00:15:42] Yeah, I'm in, you know, yearning.
[00:15:44] But the time I got to was.
[00:15:45] I mean, you know, what would I do if I got out?
[00:15:48] Yeah, well, I want to go do some other things.
[00:15:51] And the interim, I'll do the, the Ranger stuff to get ready to come back.
[00:15:56] I'll do another tour here.
[00:15:58] And then figure out, you know, where I go from, you know,
[00:16:01] Sog.
[00:16:03] So now it's 1970.
[00:16:06] All right.
[00:16:07] And are you seeing the war wind down yet?
[00:16:10] Or not really.
[00:16:11] It's still still going pretty strong from where I am.
[00:16:15] So I'm still expecting to get orders anytime.
[00:16:19] And, you know, that happened.
[00:16:23] But before that happened, I was,
[00:16:26] I got a call from Dick Meadows one day.
[00:16:30] And he said, this is me.
[00:16:33] I can't tell you anything.
[00:16:36] It's out.
[00:16:38] You're going to get orders.
[00:16:40] And you really want to do this.
[00:16:43] I need you.
[00:16:45] Click.
[00:16:46] So then I got orders to go somewhere on temporary duty.
[00:16:51] Another kind of Ranger department got it.
[00:16:54] And Meadows was in the Ranger department at the time.
[00:16:57] And he'd already been moved out on temporary duty for some reason.
[00:17:01] And then two more of us get orders like that.
[00:17:04] The Ranger department commander said,
[00:17:08] What's going on?
[00:17:09] Somebody better tell me what's going on.
[00:17:11] I was just wondering about what was going on.
[00:17:14] They canceled our orders.
[00:17:16] Mine and the other guy.
[00:17:17] Because of the security.
[00:17:19] They didn't want people asking questions about something.
[00:17:22] It might be going on.
[00:17:23] So several months later,
[00:17:27] that was the raid and to North Vietnam and to San Te.
[00:17:32] To the POW count.
[00:17:35] So, you know, I had been picked for that.
[00:17:38] And, you know, just didn't get to go.
[00:17:41] Unbelievable mission.
[00:17:43] Probably one of the most successful missions we ever had.
[00:17:47] Except no, no prisoners.
[00:17:50] Right.
[00:17:51] They had just been moved.
[00:17:52] But the training, the knowledge and stuff that came out of that.
[00:17:56] And the way those guys trained.
[00:17:58] And you know, having to build the POW count every night.
[00:18:02] And the darkness.
[00:18:03] So they could practice on it.
[00:18:04] Because they're doing the same thing.
[00:18:06] So they could practice on it.
[00:18:08] Because they'd turn the Russians out of light.
[00:18:10] Could see it.
[00:18:11] So you had to time all of that stuff.
[00:18:14] And then talking about practice.
[00:18:18] Once they figured out how they were going to do the mission.
[00:18:22] They practiced the mission over 170 times.
[00:18:27] And it took a long time to do a mission.
[00:18:30] So it was the most of the night.
[00:18:32] And they were just every day.
[00:18:34] Every night they'd go practice that mission.
[00:18:36] And you know, training during a day with their skills.
[00:18:40] Everybody knew their job.
[00:18:41] I mean, one of the guys when they landed in the compound.
[00:18:46] One of the guys job was to take out a guard tower.
[00:18:50] And the helicopter was going to land.
[00:18:52] And he had a certain number of steps to run to to get down behind a big tree that was there.
[00:18:58] And then use that as cover while he took out the guard tower.
[00:19:02] He got a helicopter lands.
[00:19:04] He runs over, gets down, kneels down, starts firing, taking out the guards up there.
[00:19:09] And then something says, hey dude, there's no tree here.
[00:19:14] Where's your tree?
[00:19:16] And it had been cut down.
[00:19:18] But he was right where he was.
[00:19:20] But if the tree had been there, he was in the right place.
[00:19:22] He had rehearsed it so many times.
[00:19:24] And all the stuff was like that.
[00:19:26] You know, you got digmettos out there doing his thing.
[00:19:29] So anyway.
[00:19:32] Then when did you get orders to go back?
[00:19:37] I'd been there about eight months.
[00:19:40] And I got orders to go back.
[00:19:43] I had actually signed out and was starting to go on leave.
[00:19:48] I was going to go there three days a leave before you have to go.
[00:19:53] And then I got orders revoked in those orders.
[00:19:58] Because at that time to be an instructor in a range of department,
[00:20:02] you had to have combat experience.
[00:20:06] And they're running out of people with, particularly officers with combat experience,
[00:20:12] because they're getting out.
[00:20:14] So they put an operational hole on myself.
[00:20:18] And I think about three or four other guys that said, no, you're not going anywhere.
[00:20:21] You're going to stay right where you are.
[00:20:23] Keep doing what you're doing.
[00:20:25] So I was already set to go back to go to Sog.
[00:20:29] Everything's set up.
[00:20:31] And then they say, no, you're going to remain in place.
[00:20:34] So how long did you end up staying as a Ranger instructor?
[00:20:37] A little over three years.
[00:20:39] Yeah, long time.
[00:20:41] And now you definitely are seeing the war wind down.
[00:20:43] I'm seeing the war wind down.
[00:20:45] I'm seeing the protest.
[00:20:46] I'm seeing a lot of different things now.
[00:20:49] But still very, you know, proud to be in the military, proud to be a Ranger,
[00:20:56] especially forces and whatever.
[00:20:59] So I'm not thinking about getting out now.
[00:21:02] And you got married sometime around this time, Frank?
[00:21:06] That deal was confirmed right after I got orders revoking the trip back to Vietnam.
[00:21:13] So, yeah, that's how I got married.
[00:21:17] You got confirmed.
[00:21:19] Yeah.
[00:21:20] Yeah, because what I had said was it would probably be better.
[00:21:25] Let me do the tour.
[00:21:27] And when I come back, you know, then we can get married.
[00:21:31] Rather than, you know, something happening to me.
[00:21:34] And you become in a widow and all that kind of stuff.
[00:21:37] Let's not do that.
[00:21:39] But once my orders were revoked, then okay, now we can move forward.
[00:21:44] And then your next tour was went to Korea?
[00:21:49] Yes.
[00:21:50] Well, I went to the advanced course down at Benning for a year and went from there to Korea.
[00:21:56] What do you do with the after-off course course course course?
[00:21:59] Yeah.
[00:22:00] And that's to prepare you to be a company commander?
[00:22:02] Company commander or, yeah, really, start moving you out toward the next level.
[00:22:07] If you're going to get promoted, you know, you got to go to the advanced course.
[00:22:12] And that's one of the Bob-I, where you stay on there.
[00:22:15] There are some other people from Saag that I knew there.
[00:22:20] And with an interesting to see the guys like the guys from Saag, the guys from special forces,
[00:22:26] in there, now they're teaching the company commanders for infantry.
[00:22:31] What kind of, what kind of lessons we're going back and forth from those two elements?
[00:22:37] You know, when you're being there, I learned a lot about, you know, just to mechanize units and things like that.
[00:22:47] You know, because I had never been in one.
[00:22:49] I've been in, you know, some kind of special ops group.
[00:22:52] I didn't understand about people outside of special ops.
[00:22:56] I didn't understand about someone that you could say, okay, we got to get this accomplished this afternoon.
[00:23:03] And so I did drones. And this afternoon I go, look, and it's not done.
[00:23:09] What? How could that happen?
[00:23:11] I mean, you tell a special ops guy, I mean, this needs to be done.
[00:23:15] I mean, it was a different mindset, different.
[00:23:19] I'm not trying to demean anybody that wasn't in special ops, but it's a different mindset.
[00:23:25] So getting used to that when I got to Korea, I had, well, ahead of time, I had a lot of things.
[00:23:32] I had a time I had written a letter to the commanding general.
[00:23:36] I found out I was going to the second after division.
[00:23:40] And he was probably else I.
[00:23:42] So I had written a letter to him and said, you know, I'm coming.
[00:23:46] I want to command a company, but I want to command a Ranger company.
[00:23:51] I think the second after division could benefit from a position or Ranger company.
[00:23:57] So what I'd like to do is take over a company and let me convert it.
[00:24:03] And, you know, if anything happens with North Korea, I'm out there.
[00:24:07] You know, you put us on there first and we'll go do it.
[00:24:11] And the created a lot of controversy with the staff and other people that found out that I had written a commanding general letter.
[00:24:21] And in fact, in the battalion, that was assigned to, there was a couple of weeks there before I got to take over the company.
[00:24:28] The battalion commander brought me in, you know, right off the bat and he said, let me tell you something Thompson.
[00:24:35] You never been in a real army unit.
[00:24:39] You won't last a month.
[00:24:41] You'll be relieved if you're a command within a month.
[00:24:44] You're a snake eater.
[00:24:45] You don't know how we do things.
[00:24:47] And you're not going to survive here. And I'm sorry that I'm not going to be here to see it.
[00:24:52] But, you know, I'm leaving Korea in about a week or so.
[00:24:56] But my replacement will see you.
[00:24:59] And I thought, yeah, that's a motivational way to greet the new guy coming in.
[00:25:06] So anyway, a company called Bunky Bravo.
[00:25:14] It became my company.
[00:25:17] And within a few days, we painted the wall of the building, you know, black and gold.
[00:25:22] It became Bravo Rangers.
[00:25:25] And we had a game there. There's a call combat football.
[00:25:31] You had 40 people on the field from each team with two balls in play at the time.
[00:25:38] And you had to have 40 people per side.
[00:25:41] Yeah.
[00:25:42] And you had 10 substitutes that you could use.
[00:25:46] So before I took over, I went down and I got a new first sergeant.
[00:25:51] He and I came in at the same time.
[00:25:53] So let's go down and watch him play this combat football game.
[00:25:56] See what's going on. So we go down.
[00:26:00] Bravo company couldn't get enough people on the field to play the game.
[00:26:05] They had to force it the game because nobody would go out there.
[00:26:08] So you know, if it doesn't people and I'm thinking, why?
[00:26:13] Why are they not going out there?
[00:26:16] And I told the first sergeant, as a top, when we take over, things are going to change.
[00:26:22] Yeah.
[00:26:23] This company is going to see the world differently.
[00:26:26] So once we took over, we had a combat football game a couple of days later.
[00:26:32] So took the company down to the field.
[00:26:36] And they're all standing there and I walked out onto the field and I faced them.
[00:26:41] And I said, okay, I'm number one.
[00:26:44] Top where I get first sergeant went right and out.
[00:26:47] And I said, okay, top, you number two.
[00:26:50] Where are my loot tenants?
[00:26:52] loot tenants get out here.
[00:26:54] Okay. Now we got some more players.
[00:26:56] Where do they in see it? Why are there no NCOs out here?
[00:26:58] All the NCOs get on the field.
[00:27:00] Okay.
[00:27:01] Top figure out how many spaces we have left in case some of the troops are going to play.
[00:27:05] Boom.
[00:27:06] There are all I don't know if I'm going to fill one in the play.
[00:27:08] I said, man, they have all the officers and NCOs are going to play.
[00:27:12] Yeah.
[00:27:13] And it's like we were talking about before.
[00:27:15] I'm not going to put you on a game like that where you could break your leg or something.
[00:27:19] If I'm afraid to go out there.
[00:27:21] You know, if that's leadership, you get out there.
[00:27:23] Follow me.
[00:27:24] I'll say, hi, I have to do it.
[00:27:25] I might not be the best player on the field.
[00:27:27] But I'm going to give it my best.
[00:27:29] One division championship twice.
[00:27:31] I was there.
[00:27:32] How did two parts when you took over Bunky Bravo?
[00:27:39] I'm a match.
[00:27:41] He was a pretty slack attitude for them.
[00:27:43] And sometimes people get the impression, oh, well, when you come in like that, you've got to drop the hammer on everyone.
[00:27:49] How did you balance, drop in the hammer and everyone creating a distance between you and them?
[00:27:53] And actually, you just described one way that you did it, which is, hey, I'm going to be the first one out here.
[00:27:59] I'm going to be going to lead from the front.
[00:28:01] Was there any other techniques as a leader that you utilized to turn that, to turn the, the, the folks that forfeited matches to the folks that win the championships two times?
[00:28:10] There were several things that happened.
[00:28:12] As you can imagine, with Bunky Bravo, there was a lot of drugs uses, particularly marijuana.
[00:28:22] So I was walking through the company area.
[00:28:26] I was talking about a week before I took over, and I was walking about a barracks, and I was, the window was open, and I was listening.
[00:28:36] And they were talking about this new guy coming in as company commander.
[00:28:40] And they were talking about, you know, we have to get rid of him.
[00:28:44] And they were talking to a Korean guy.
[00:28:48] And they were talking about what's it going to cost us to have something happen to him.
[00:28:53] So I hear that for a little bit, and then all of a sudden I just kicked the door open, and I stepped in.
[00:28:58] And I said, you know, we haven't met yet.
[00:29:00] I'm Captain Thompson, and I'm curious.
[00:29:03] Do you have enough money to pay this guy to take me out?
[00:29:07] Because if he don't, let me loan you some money, so he can try to do that.
[00:29:12] But you'll notice, you know, drugs are going to be out of here.
[00:29:16] Everything's going to change around here like that.
[00:29:19] So you get with the program, you're in good shape. You want to use drugs.
[00:29:23] You're going to have a real problem.
[00:29:25] And I'll fast forward just a little bit, but what I found was, you could catch someone with mirror
[00:29:32] Wanted, and then as a company commander, I could find them.
[00:29:35] I could take their money, I could reduce their rank, but I know that has no meaning to them.
[00:29:42] So then I thought, what are they value the most?
[00:29:45] They're free time.
[00:29:47] So, you know, the guy gets caught marijuana and he comes in.
[00:29:53] And he said, how much does it's going to cost me, sir?
[00:29:57] I said, I don't want your money.
[00:30:00] And I said, I don't want your money.
[00:30:03] But at 1700, you report here to the first sergeant.
[00:30:08] I said, look out my window.
[00:30:10] You see that big creek right next to the area here.
[00:30:14] Yes, sir. I said, you see all those rocks on the creek bank on the other side.
[00:30:19] As a yes, sir.
[00:30:21] I said tomorrow they're going to be back on this side.
[00:30:24] What you can't do that, I said, okay.
[00:30:27] I can give you extra duty.
[00:30:29] And that's what's going to happen every night for a while.
[00:30:31] I can give you seven days of extra duty.
[00:30:33] And you won't be going to the village.
[00:30:35] You know, words spread like wildfire.
[00:30:37] But he's crazy man.
[00:30:39] You know, he doesn't want your money.
[00:30:41] He's going to keep you here.
[00:30:43] Look, when rocks back in the hall.
[00:30:45] So we started to get the drugs out.
[00:30:47] Things like that.
[00:30:49] You know, we had the combat football.
[00:30:52] I was able to get helicopters.
[00:30:54] So we could, you know, they got to play with helicopters.
[00:30:57] They got to learn how to build bridges.
[00:31:00] We put on a demonstration for the president when he came over.
[00:31:03] There are different things like that.
[00:31:05] And then one of the techniques.
[00:31:07] I know this.
[00:31:09] Excuse me, this won't show up.
[00:31:12] But I just want to give you an example of the power of motivation.
[00:31:17] And I get in trouble here.
[00:31:19] Yeah.
[00:31:24] Company formation.
[00:31:25] And I said, all right, you guys need to understand.
[00:31:28] You belong to Bravo Rangers.
[00:31:30] You're better than anybody else here.
[00:31:32] You can outperform them.
[00:31:33] You can out run them.
[00:31:34] You can out do whatever.
[00:31:36] This is a special company that you belong to.
[00:31:39] And arrest them done.
[00:31:40] So when I finish talking, I want you to report to the Versaegean.
[00:31:45] And he's going to issue you a Bravo Ranger card.
[00:31:50] And this card says that you are a member of Bravo Rangers.
[00:31:55] And you need to understand if anyone in this company, including myself,
[00:32:01] catches you down in the village and says, show me your card.
[00:32:06] And you can't produce it.
[00:32:08] You're going to buy everybody at that table around of whatever they're drinking.
[00:32:13] And also understand if you lose this thing, you have to come to me to get a new one.
[00:32:20] And explain to me how you lost it.
[00:32:24] I won't say necessarily on the podcast here.
[00:32:29] What it says on the back of this card, the online.
[00:32:34] Let you look at the back of it.
[00:32:38] There you got so excited about that.
[00:32:40] That was the most valuable thing that they owned in the company.
[00:32:46] Well, I'll read one part of it.
[00:32:49] You've never lived until you've almost died.
[00:32:51] And until you fight for it, life has a special flavor that only a Ranger will ever know.
[00:32:57] Bravo Rangers.
[00:32:58] And then there's some various special activities that the
[00:33:03] Brawler Rangers are capable of executing.
[00:33:10] And they're not all legal, I'll say.
[00:33:15] So that's outstanding.
[00:33:18] And now, but the power hasn't happened to me for some time now.
[00:33:24] But in the 90s, I mean, there's an increase in the 70s.
[00:33:29] And the 90s.
[00:33:34] I'd be walking through the air, but I'm allowed to airport.
[00:33:37] And a guy would say, hey, sir, you know, I'm, you know, Sergeant Jones or whatever.
[00:33:40] And he'd introduce himself.
[00:33:42] And the next thing out of his mouth was, you got your car.
[00:33:46] And he would have his car.
[00:33:48] I mean, it was amazing.
[00:33:50] How many people I would run into over the years.
[00:33:53] And one of the first things they would say, you got your car.
[00:33:56] I got mine.
[00:33:57] They were still carrying these cars.
[00:33:58] I swam these in here.
[00:33:59] If I say one case, first thing they're going to do is ask me about it.
[00:34:03] So that, you know, I'm a big, I don't know what the right word is.
[00:34:10] But I learned a lot from David Hackworth, from Colonel David Hackworth.
[00:34:14] And one of the things that he did was rename the hopeless battalion in Vietnam that he took over into the hardcore.
[00:34:21] And like when I took over for tasking at Bravo at Seal Team 3 as the tasking at Commander,
[00:34:27] I immediately changed the name to Task Unit Bruser instead.
[00:34:31] Same exact idea.
[00:34:32] And I've got a great email recently from a guy that had changed the name of his,
[00:34:37] he's had a big construction company.
[00:34:39] And that his team changed the name of his team.
[00:34:41] And it like changed the attitude and all of a sudden they started completing projects.
[00:34:45] And just that little element.
[00:34:48] And there's an important part to it is you can't just change the name and expect like,
[00:34:54] Oh, now everything's different.
[00:34:55] That's an element of it.
[00:34:57] You have to do the other things.
[00:34:58] You have to say, oh, we're going to work hard.
[00:34:59] We're going to fight hard.
[00:35:00] We're going to win this championship.
[00:35:01] We're going to be the best here.
[00:35:03] You can't just change the name and expect that to happen.
[00:35:05] You're going to have to do work behind it.
[00:35:07] You know, pride comes from, pride comes from struggle and an overcoming struggle.
[00:35:13] That's what pride comes from.
[00:35:14] So when people ask me how do you develop pride in a team?
[00:35:16] Cool.
[00:35:17] You want to develop pride in a team?
[00:35:18] You make them do hard stuff.
[00:35:19] Hard training.
[00:35:20] Go through.
[00:35:21] You know, even with military units that have bad,
[00:35:24] that have battle streamers, that's, that's the pride that they've carried for 50 years,
[00:35:28] a hundred years since they did whatever, you know, thing in World War One or World War Two or
[00:35:33] Career Vietnam, that's something that that unit achieved and that gives them pride.
[00:35:38] So you can't just change the name and expect, oh, cool.
[00:35:41] I change the name.
[00:35:42] Now I'm good to go.
[00:35:43] No, you need to change the name and then you need to give them something to be proud of,
[00:35:47] which means some kind of struggle to get through some kind of pain to get through that
[00:35:52] that not only doesn't give them the sense of achievement, it also brings them together.
[00:35:57] Right.
[00:35:57] Because when you, that shared suffering that you go through, whether it's boot camp or airborne school or
[00:36:02] special forces selection or a hard training mission, all those things what they do is
[00:36:06] bring it together and the ultimate form of that is, is combat, you know, which is why you can,
[00:36:11] you can go through a, be a member of a guy that was in Saga and you reach out to tilt.
[00:36:16] You guys never met before and all of a sudden, hey, yep.
[00:36:18] Well, we'll meet up at some point and you can move forward. You guys have that camaraderie because of what that unit
[00:36:23] achieved and the struggles that you went through.
[00:36:25] So the other question I want to ask is, when it relates to going,
[00:36:30] how do you keep that in check, at least, well, from your perspective for you,
[00:36:35] because now all of a sudden, you got guys that are walking around with a chess boat out,
[00:36:39] and you start get professional jealousy from the other company commanders and they're going to try and make you look bad
[00:36:44] and they're talking behind you. How, how did you contend with that kind of thing and keeping your guys
[00:36:48] from becoming arrogant, which is a possibility?
[00:36:52] It's a real issue of big issue. And it also happens internally.
[00:36:57] So we're out on a range practicing and we're out there for a week.
[00:37:05] And all of a sudden, the first sergeant says, sir, you need to come with me.
[00:37:10] We got a little issue going on out here. And there was a little bank that had a road on it.
[00:37:15] And there was a little road, you know, 30, 40 feet below.
[00:37:20] Third batoon, what's coming down the road?
[00:37:24] First batoon was going the other way. Third batoon made some little comment the first batoon.
[00:37:30] And a hell of a rock came down. You know, it's, and you know, we had to go break up a rock fight
[00:37:35] because they were so pumped and young. You're not better enough. You can't call us now.
[00:37:40] Oh, gee. You know, all right, guys. These are young people.
[00:37:44] These are young people. The enemies outside the wire.
[00:37:47] And yeah, you can be fired up. But you know, and other company commanders,
[00:37:52] even another batagon commanders were upset because the general, I mean,
[00:38:00] I'd been there maybe a week. And all of a sudden, I mean, in command.
[00:38:08] And all of a sudden, the siren goes off.
[00:38:12] And the siren is deployed to your battle positions.
[00:38:16] And you don't know if it's real or not, it's just deploy.
[00:38:19] So I run back down there. My head quarters and the first sergeants there and say,
[00:38:27] okay, what's up? And he said, no, you got it in deploy to the battle positions.
[00:38:32] I think you need to go to the battalion commander's office and find out which battle plan
[00:38:37] we're implementing. Don't worry about the company.
[00:38:41] I know we have to be out the front and get in two hours.
[00:38:44] We'll be there. You go find out where we're going and what we're going to have to do.
[00:38:49] I'll make sure we get everybody here. And we load up everything and take it with us.
[00:38:55] So I go get it and I come back and we're in the head of the whole battalion.
[00:39:01] So we're going to lead the old brigade out of camp,
[00:39:05] over to the battle position this.
[00:39:08] And just as we start to move, a Jeep runs over my radio operator's foot,
[00:39:14] breaks his foot. So I go throw him in the, in the ambulance.
[00:39:18] But we go and we get, you know, lead a night, we get up on a mountain in the area that we're supposed to defend.
[00:39:27] And we have to dig in, dig fighting positions and everything.
[00:39:31] There's just getting daylight. I got everybody dug in and they were putting in the firing,
[00:39:36] the stakes, aiming stakes and all that.
[00:39:39] And I hear this, what, what, what, and a helicopter pop up.
[00:39:43] So set stand on a ridge. This guy gets out and all I can see are those stars on his.
[00:39:50] And he comes over and you know, I'm sleuding and he says,
[00:39:55] you know, Captain Thompson, I, I want to see your fighting positions.
[00:40:02] So he walks around the ridge and we talk about him and he's asking me,
[00:40:06] quite, why did you put this one here? Why is it already like this?
[00:40:09] I asked the, this is all the others in the fighting position. Some questions here and there.
[00:40:13] And you know, I take it about 30 minutes and he comes back. He gets in his helicopter and he leaves.
[00:40:18] And I said, wow, I wasn't expecting the division commander to show up all of a sudden.
[00:40:24] It wasn't 20 minutes. Well, well, well, well, well, well, he's the helicopter back up there again.
[00:40:29] He gets off his balls of three-store steps out with him.
[00:40:35] And he comes to me and says, I want you to take us around. I want you to show him your battle position.
[00:40:41] So they get in the helicopter and I was here. I mean, he's ramping and raven to the whole division about how great,
[00:40:48] you know, the Bravo Company looks and all the stuff and the pattern of a battalion commander going back and throwing my name out.
[00:40:55] And then he starts showing up at least once a week at my muscle.
[00:41:01] The division commander walks in the middle, company mouse all the breakfast on a regular basis.
[00:41:07] And you know, and he talks and we talk about the things I've got the company to do and what I need them to do.
[00:41:13] And you start to share that as, you know, you get to come to the company again.
[00:41:17] Why do you think division commander comes down here?
[00:41:20] Does he go to other people's mouse or something now? He's coming in a Bravo Company.
[00:41:25] Look around you. What do you guys do?
[00:41:27] I mean, you're ferocious at combat football. combat football is his thing. He invented it.
[00:41:33] And you guys are animals out there and he loves it.
[00:41:37] And we won, you know, best tactical pretend and a contest it was had.
[00:41:43] I call private Johns out and I said, look, Johns won third place in the division,
[00:41:50] a division, a Christmas card drawing contest. Third place guys out of 10,000 people in the division.
[00:41:57] You got third place. I mean, it doesn't matter what we do. You guys are winners.
[00:42:02] We can do it. We just keep this up.
[00:42:06] And you know, so there's just constantly having things to do.
[00:42:10] And like I said, we won the football championship twice.
[00:42:13] We won the Tycon, Tycon Do Championship.
[00:42:17] You know, I was a player coach on our team.
[00:42:20] And we won the championship in the division.
[00:42:25] And just all kinds of things.
[00:42:27] Because they were so pumped up and they do whatever you'd pour them at.
[00:42:31] And they, it was like they couldn't lose.
[00:42:34] Next up, you know, you had to put up with the people who were jealous.
[00:42:38] Because he was down there with us all the time.
[00:42:42] And you know, they sent us to, they sent us to be the immediate reaction force for the nuclear sites.
[00:42:49] You had to rotate people through there.
[00:42:52] So you're on a 30 minute notice to deploy to where whatever nuclear site might be under attack.
[00:43:00] So I walked in and we were looking around and I'm looking at the battle plans.
[00:43:05] And I'm saying, you know, this is pretty cool.
[00:43:08] I mean, maybe they'll activate us and we have to go do something.
[00:43:12] And I said, you know, I would feel better if I could see the live ammunition that we have for the mission.
[00:43:21] Well, if you can't see it, it's, you know, it's got, it's in, they're in foot lockers.
[00:43:26] The magazines are locked up. They have steel bands around them.
[00:43:30] You can't really see it.
[00:43:33] I say, get a pair of bulk colors.
[00:43:35] You can't see it. Open those boxes up.
[00:43:38] Nobody had opened one of those boxes in 10 years.
[00:43:41] The magazines were rusty.
[00:43:43] The ammunition wouldn't feed out of it.
[00:43:46] Created a major stair when I reported that we needed new ammunition because it wasn't functional.
[00:43:55] A few days later, I said, you know, we got a battle plan here that says we're supposed to fly into this LZ up here and support around this nuclear site.
[00:44:04] I said, get a helicopter.
[00:44:06] Get some choppers.
[00:44:08] So let's load up the first pretend.
[00:44:09] I want to make that insertion.
[00:44:11] You couldn't land.
[00:44:13] The trees had grown up since that plan was written.
[00:44:15] There was no wells either.
[00:44:17] You know, so I reported that.
[00:44:19] And the tanker commanders that Thompson back off.
[00:44:22] We'll have to highlight the fine anything.
[00:44:23] Just back up.
[00:44:24] You got me in so much trouble.
[00:44:25] I said, it's not trouble.
[00:44:27] I mean, what if we had to do something?
[00:44:29] Yeah.
[00:44:30] So, you know, let's, let's a lot of stuff.
[00:44:32] Well, all those are also readers of lessons.
[00:44:35] And then after that, you go back to brag and emergency deployment readiness exercise evaluation for special forces and Rangers.
[00:44:44] So you're like an innovator.
[00:44:46] At this point.
[00:44:47] Yeah.
[00:44:48] So all the special forces and Rangers came under the 18th Airborne Corps.
[00:44:55] The division commander from Correa is now the 18th Airborne Corps Commander.
[00:45:01] So did he call you out by name and bring you back there?
[00:45:04] Yeah.
[00:45:05] So he, he had me brought there to do special projects and things.
[00:45:10] So, and one of them was, you got to be on this scene.
[00:45:13] I want somebody that knows about special ops that can deploy.
[00:45:18] You know, so I would show up at a range of Italian headquarters at two o'clock in the morning and the CQ of paper classified document that says,
[00:45:27] we'll's up in two hours.
[00:45:32] And, you know, it's going to get out of the way because that place was going to come alive.
[00:45:38] And then I would go with them.
[00:45:40] I would, you know, be one of the evaluators.
[00:45:42] If they put in a halo team, I would jump with a halo team and evaluate them.
[00:45:47] We'd take them on classified missions sometimes.
[00:45:50] There's a lot of things that, you know, we would do with them.
[00:45:53] I just ate up because, you know, it was all special ops stuff.
[00:45:58] So I got to do that. That was a lot of fun.
[00:46:01] And, you know, the sniper team came under us.
[00:46:04] It's sniper all, it's sniper training.
[00:46:06] It's full break. That was under us.
[00:46:08] So I could go out and play with the sniper.
[00:46:10] And, you know, shoot and improve my skills.
[00:46:15] And so what are you at this point at this point at a U.M. major?
[00:46:18] Shoot.
[00:46:19] Are you still a captain?
[00:46:21] And then what about the next time that Dick Meadows called you up?
[00:46:26] circa 1978?
[00:46:29] He actually showed up at my house.
[00:46:31] Okay.
[00:46:32] One better.
[00:46:34] I have several people like that that if they called or they showed up at my house, my wife was not happy.
[00:46:45] Because she knew they were there for one reason.
[00:46:48] There was something they wanted me to do that she was not going to want me to do.
[00:46:53] So a meta shows up.
[00:46:55] I didn't know it was coming.
[00:46:57] You know, pulls up in my driveway.
[00:46:59] I was outside that's all I'm in.
[00:47:01] So we go talk and he said, I need you.
[00:47:06] We're putting together a special group.
[00:47:10] I need you to come in and be part of my cadre to help set this thing up
[00:47:15] and also evaluate and train the people and be an operator in this group when we get it set up.
[00:47:24] And he said, I really can't tell you anymore than that.
[00:47:27] I was you to guy.
[00:47:28] I want.
[00:47:29] I said, that's it.
[00:47:30] Me right now.
[00:47:31] And he said, yeah.
[00:47:33] And I said, my wife is pregnant with a third child.
[00:47:38] You know, I just saw my house here.
[00:47:42] I just bought a house and the author and the Georgia.
[00:47:46] I just got accepted into the doctoral program and University of Georgia.
[00:47:52] And named off a bunch of things like that.
[00:47:54] I can't just stop this process right here.
[00:47:59] And he was not happy.
[00:48:03] And you know, his final comment.
[00:48:05] Tell me was, you hung up your guns.
[00:48:08] So I haven't hung up my guns.
[00:48:13] I just need to delay it for about two years.
[00:48:17] Now I can come back and do anything you want.
[00:48:19] He said, no, I need you right now.
[00:48:22] And that was the last time we had a face to face in the car.
[00:48:26] That was it.
[00:48:27] And the group he was setting up.
[00:48:29] Tell us.
[00:48:30] Tell us.
[00:48:39] Yeah.
[00:48:40] That's crazy.
[00:48:43] Now what what had made you want to go to college.
[00:48:47] And what were you going to study?
[00:48:49] You asked me early on about going to OCS and only have a year and a half of college.
[00:48:59] When I left to the second after division as a captain and came back to the states, I was assured
[00:49:06] Secondary's on promotion.
[00:49:09] I was going to make major we before any other captains in my year group and stuff.
[00:49:15] It was a done deal.
[00:49:17] Promotion this came out and I was not.
[00:49:21] Which is not bad because many people, you know, a few people and you get a second there.
[00:49:26] But I was not.
[00:49:29] So when I called, middle person and D.C. and said, what happened?
[00:49:36] And I said, well, you know, you were not considered.
[00:49:40] I want to.
[00:49:42] You said, you know, first thing we did was we went through all the records and divided
[00:49:46] into two piles.
[00:49:47] College degree, not a college degree.
[00:49:50] You don't have a college degree.
[00:49:52] You are not eligible. You weren't even looked at beyond that.
[00:49:57] So that irritated me.
[00:49:59] You know, look at my performance.
[00:50:02] You know, why is that performing me and all those stuff?
[00:50:05] So then eventually I talked to him and I said, you wasted all your luck, staying alive,
[00:50:09] and combat.
[00:50:10] Yeah, I guess I did.
[00:50:11] Yeah.
[00:50:13] Okay, and I'll go to school at night and I'll finish this degree.
[00:50:19] So I did, and once I finished as a degree, then I got a call from them saying,
[00:50:26] how would you like to go get a master's degree?
[00:50:28] I said, you wouldn't let me get an undergraduate, but now you want to say me for a master's.
[00:50:34] I said, okay, I'm interested in that.
[00:50:36] My plan was, why don't you want a master's?
[00:50:40] Let me find this school that has an ROTC program that I could get a follow on assignment to you.
[00:50:48] After I finished the Master's program.
[00:50:51] So what I do is I enroll in a PhD program, complete the master's along the way.
[00:50:57] I'll have a two year or more assignment with ROTC.
[00:51:02] I'll be able to finish out the doctorate.
[00:51:04] So next time you want to ask about education, I'll have it.
[00:51:09] You can call me doctor master.
[00:51:12] That's right.
[00:51:14] So here I come. Like I said before, if you're going to do it, you do it.
[00:51:19] You practice, you do what you have to do.
[00:51:21] You take the lead.
[00:51:23] And what did you get your doctorate?
[00:51:24] Psychology.
[00:51:26] So I think we talked before about, I started out in chemistry.
[00:51:33] And I found myself on the battlefield leading men in combat.
[00:51:40] And I was kind of looking around and thinking, I need to learn how to motivate people.
[00:51:47] I need to understand the psychology of motivation, the psychology of people.
[00:51:51] If I'm going to be a leader, I need to learn about that, not chemistry.
[00:51:57] So when I went back to school, on a back school with psychology, so I could learn how to do that stuff with them.
[00:52:04] And then in reality, I think I'm going for a circle.
[00:52:08] And now I understand, it's the chemicals and things and you brain.
[00:52:11] Just driving all this other stuff.
[00:52:13] If you deal with those, it's a lot you can do.
[00:52:16] But, yeah, I got to do a lot of things.
[00:52:21] I helped put together the Air Land Battle 2000.
[00:52:25] I were going to do war fighting in a 21st century.
[00:52:28] I got to do all kind of research on sleep, on stress.
[00:52:33] How are we going to fight?
[00:52:35] Because we were predicting in the 80s, we were predicting the next ground war was going to be a hundred hours straight.
[00:52:42] Before there was any break.
[00:52:44] So how are you going to keep people awake that long and keep them effective to perform the mission?
[00:52:51] How are you going to create high performing leaders, high performing battle staffs, high performing teams?
[00:52:58] What does that mean?
[00:53:00] So I got to go all over the place and meet really smart people and learn from them.
[00:53:05] And work on projects like that do a research like that.
[00:53:09] A lot of which was used in some in the Faulklands, because I worked with the British Army staff on the head general at the time.
[00:53:20] There's that we're not doing that.
[00:53:22] They're just going to stay awake.
[00:53:24] I said, they can't stay awake.
[00:53:28] Not that long.
[00:53:30] So there's some things you have to do.
[00:53:32] But you discovered that in the Faulklands.
[00:53:35] You have to do something and keep them going.
[00:53:38] And then the Gulf War, the ground face was a hundred hours.
[00:53:42] My brother, you know, butch, helicopter pilot, or Apache pilot, he didn't get either aircraft.
[00:53:50] He would come in to refuel.
[00:53:52] They would feed him.
[00:53:53] You know, while the aircraft's rearm in refueling and sending him right back out.
[00:53:58] And you know, using some different things to excuse me, keep him away.
[00:54:04] So anyway.
[00:54:06] So then was the command and general staff college was that your final tour?
[00:54:11] No.
[00:54:13] That was one where, you know, my luck hit run out.
[00:54:18] So when I finished, I was going back to a regular unit.
[00:54:23] And then they realized that I was the only infantry officer in the class that had a PhD.
[00:54:33] And the general, my there to combat on said, you're not going anywhere.
[00:54:37] You're staying here to work with me on this airline battle staff.
[00:54:40] I need somebody that thinks like you do and has the combat experience and everything to work on this with me.
[00:54:47] So they kept me there for four years, counting the year I was in school.
[00:54:53] And then they called me up and said, how would you like to be the professor of military science at the University of Georgia?
[00:55:01] So you go back and I said, when you call me, where's this coming from?
[00:55:07] And I said, well, actually the university is turning down everybody we send.
[00:55:13] Every applicant to be the professor of military science that you're finding a reason not to not accept him.
[00:55:22] But they can't do that to you.
[00:55:25] You've had an ROTC assignment there.
[00:55:27] You've been there because of the department.
[00:55:30] You got a PhD master's in PhD from there.
[00:55:34] You know, academically you've got everything that's in, so your name's all all your stuff.
[00:55:38] And he says, they have to take you.
[00:55:40] I think I'll try that.
[00:55:44] They took me and I just finished up there.
[00:55:48] I had started high performing systems,
[00:55:52] Connelly on the side is just something to play with.
[00:55:55] But it started growing so fast.
[00:55:58] You can't have an engagement with a client.
[00:56:01] And then the general decides, I need you for a break for a meeting on Monday morning.
[00:56:07] And you can't do that. I mean, you can't turn the clients down if you want to keep them.
[00:56:11] So now I'm having a conflict.
[00:56:14] So I decided, you know, 21 years, that's enough.
[00:56:17] I'll get out and go do the company because I've said the company to be able to do the kinds of things I like to do.
[00:56:25] I mean, I don't get the shooting people.
[00:56:28] But they don't get shoot at me either.
[00:56:30] Which is also nice.
[00:56:32] Yeah.
[00:56:33] But at that time, outdoor training was a big deal.
[00:56:37] Roads courses is a kind of repaid.
[00:56:40] Throwing the bribe patch.
[00:56:42] I mean, I can do that stuff in my sleep.
[00:56:44] And I enjoy doing it.
[00:56:46] So we had executive jumping off cliffs and going down rivers and rafts.
[00:56:50] And all those stuff.
[00:56:52] That played out, you know, towards the end of the 90s.
[00:56:55] People started saying, Ben, they're done that.
[00:56:57] I'm on something different.
[00:56:58] So, you know, we changed up a little bit.
[00:57:00] Yeah.
[00:57:01] So somewhere along the way, you wrote the book, the stress effect, which I read and definitely has some,
[00:57:13] some really good information in it.
[00:57:17] And I wanted to hit some of the information that you put in there.
[00:57:20] Just to kind of give people a feel for the book.
[00:57:23] I'm not going to do as much of a detailed as well.
[00:57:26] As I would do with the document that we read about restaurant,
[00:57:29] the restaurant, the last podcast.
[00:57:31] But, you know, just to give people some feel for what your, what this book contains.
[00:57:36] So I'm coming down here out of the gate.
[00:57:39] Researchers, Shelley Kirkpatrick and Edwin Locke State.
[00:57:43] It is unequivocally clear that leaders are not like other people.
[00:57:47] Leaders do not have to be great men or women by being intellectual geniuses or omniscent profits to succeed.
[00:57:56] But they do need to have the right stuff and this stuff is not equally present in all people.
[00:58:02] So, this is interesting because you're saying something that a lot of people don't want to hear,
[00:58:07] right, which is, hey, there are certain leadership traits that you may or may not be born with.
[00:58:15] And that's the reality of the situation.
[00:58:18] Now, I talk about this a lot too and I actually say the same thing and I have this,
[00:58:22] and I'm just going to say that you're going to get different capabilities that you have as a human being.
[00:58:28] And what you can do as a leader is if you have an area of weakness,
[00:58:32] if you're smart, you'll bring people onto your leadership team that compliment your areas of weakness.
[00:58:37] But you can only do that if you have the humility to admit that, hey, I'm not that great at planning or hey,
[00:58:44] I'm not that great at paperwork or I'm not that good at talking to the troops.
[00:58:48] Whatever areas of weakness you have, if you can admit to them and bring people onto your team that can compliment that,
[00:58:53] and say, hey, you know, I'm not great talking to the troops dick, you know, can you get out there and deliver the work?
[00:58:58] And you go, yeah, I got it.
[00:58:59] And that's fine as long as I can admit it.
[00:59:02] But if I wanted to admit it, my ego's in the way, and even though I'm not good at communicating with the troops,
[00:59:06] I decided I'm going to want to ask you up there and do it, and I bumble around and leave them walking away,
[00:59:11] not feeling confident about it, that's bad.
[00:59:14] So this idea right here that we all get, you know, you're going to get some qualities, but you're going to be missing some too.
[00:59:23] And so that's something we all have to admit.
[00:59:30] You go here, you talk about learnability, which includes job knowledge skills and experience.
[00:59:35] It's critical component of leadership and decision making, selecting a former GE executive just because she was an employee of GE to run a hospital corporation
[00:59:43] or a publishing company does not make sense.
[00:59:45] Just because someone worked from organization without when outstanding reputation doesn't necessarily mean that individual become will become an outstanding leader who makes outstanding decisions,
[00:59:56] especially if she does not have the learned ability for that role level and industry.
[01:00:02] This is not to say that high performing leaders can't successfully switch organizations and assume higher roles.
[01:00:08] However, it's not a given.
[01:00:11] Right.
[01:00:12] Important point there, that I have a company where we place veterans into organizations and a lot of times people think, oh well, the person has veteran experience, so they're going to be a hundred percent good to go.
[01:00:27] And as much as I would love to say that, you can't say that.
[01:00:31] That's why we do a screening process and we actually train them to for that transition.
[01:00:35] But this is the same thing. People just because people are from an organization like you know GE has that reputation for their leadership,
[01:00:44] but that doesn't mean that that person is necessarily a good leader and you have to be careful of that.
[01:00:52] And this section here, I have to say, was I found very interesting.
[01:01:01] Individual leader complexity find the person who can do the work.
[01:01:06] And so you can do this topic here.
[01:01:09] Simply put, leader complexity refers to a leader's ability to handle the requirements of his or her job,
[01:01:15] depending on the size and type of an organization.
[01:01:18] Leaders job is often enormously complex.
[01:01:21] Two factors determine ability to work at a particular level of complexity, learned and innate abilities.
[01:01:29] So once again, you're talking about innate abilities, meaning that people have limitations.
[01:01:35] And you know, my big point to that, or my thoughts around that,
[01:01:43] is that people that really have problems or the people that don't realize that they have,
[01:01:47] limited that they have limited innate capabilities, which means everyone.
[01:01:51] We all have things that we're not good at.
[01:01:53] That people that can't admit that are going to have real problems.
[01:01:57] Now you get into this, all leaders have limitations to what they can learn and how far up the leadership ladder they can climb.
[01:02:06] Inmate ability as it pertains to leadership consists of four major factors,
[01:02:10] cognitive ability, emotional intelligence, motivation and personality.
[01:02:14] And this is the most, this is the section that I really was very interesting,
[01:02:19] because I work with a lot of different leaders all the time, because I have a consulting company too,
[01:02:24] and we work with leaders all the time.
[01:02:26] So this topic here of cognitive ability.
[01:02:30] Cognitive ability is how a leader processes,
[01:02:33] organizes, stores and retrieves information,
[01:02:37] thus determining how she creates the world she lives in,
[01:02:40] makes sense of it, and acts on it.
[01:02:43] Cognitive ability is a key determinant of a leader's ability to be successful at different organizational role levels.
[01:02:52] Unlike learned skills, cognitive ability is not trainable.
[01:02:57] It is a hard-wired ability that unfolds through a natural maturation process across one's lifespan.
[01:03:04] A leader's cognitive ability determines how she approaches problem solving, decision-making,
[01:03:10] and interpersonal interactions.
[01:03:13] Let's look at the general characteristics of cognitive ability going from high to low.
[01:03:18] So now you're starting to talk about the actual person that has high cognitive ability.
[01:03:24] And this is interesting, and we may have to come back to this one, that it's not trainable.
[01:03:30] That's an interesting statement, because I would think,
[01:03:36] and I've seen people get better at, you know,
[01:03:40] coming up with simple solutions and dealing with stress.
[01:03:43] So maybe that doesn't fall into those things.
[01:03:45] Don't fall quite in the category of cognitive ability,
[01:03:48] but here's what you say about the higher, the higher leaders cognitive ability is.
[01:03:53] The lower the need for consistency in the information being processed.
[01:03:59] This is a very important thing, right?
[01:04:01] I'm going to read it again.
[01:04:02] The higher a leader's cognitive ability level is,
[01:04:06] the lower the need for consistency in the information being processed.
[01:04:11] What that means to me is, and this is very, very prudent on the battlefield,
[01:04:17] is like you're not going to get consistent information out there.
[01:04:19] And if that bothers you, if you can't wrap your mind around different pieces of information
[01:04:25] coming in that are contradictory to one another, you're going to have a problem making your decision.
[01:04:30] That's what you're saying right there.
[01:04:32] Yes.
[01:04:34] You need to be able to have contradicting thoughts, ideas, concepts, information in your mind,
[01:04:44] both of them at the same time, and still function.
[01:04:48] And they're opposites of each other, but you can still deal with that.
[01:04:53] It's not going to stop you from moving forward.
[01:04:56] And you'll find a way to use that information to fit in with what you're trying to do.
[01:05:02] Yeah, the hopes that I have in going through this with a little bit of detail is that people recognize this.
[01:05:09] People recognize what we're saying is, I wrote one of the books I wrote,
[01:05:13] I wrote the dichotomy of leadership.
[01:05:14] And it's about this idea that you as a leader are going to have different forces pulling you in opposite directions.
[01:05:22] And you need to learn how to balance those different opposing forces.
[01:05:25] With just about every trait that we have, that's what you need to be able to do.
[01:05:29] So I hope when people hear this, that they say to themselves, oh, I get wrapped around the axle if two different pieces of information are opposing each other.
[01:05:39] This is really important.
[01:05:41] I hope that even though it's not trainable, I hope that you can actually, when people get recognition of it, they can go, oh, you know what?
[01:05:50] I know what's happening right now.
[01:05:51] I'm hearing two different pieces of information.
[01:05:53] My tendency is just to want to focus on one or ignore them both, but I don't make a decision where I want to need to do is think about how both these things are actually true or possibly true.
[01:06:05] Are you going, and this is a great example, consider the question, do cell phones cause brain cancer?
[01:06:12] You can find as many studies that say, it does as it does not.
[01:06:17] At lower cognitive ability levels, most people would find the inconsistency in the research confusing.
[01:06:25] Their response would be, there must be a right answer.
[01:06:30] The low cognitive ability leader may choose to ignore the data altogether or pick the dot data that support her position.
[01:06:40] So there you go.
[01:06:42] Classical example, hey, look, there's got to be a right answer. We need to know what the real deal is.
[01:06:48] When, as you know, you can Google and right now, you can Google anything and you can get supporting data for any hypotheses that you have.
[01:06:57] And if you have low cognitive ability, whichever one you think is right, that's where you pull all that data to back yourself up.
[01:07:05] It says this, in contrast, the high cognitive ability leader understand that there is no single answer and tends to look at the implications of cell phone use in the organization or how to put in safeguards just in case the phones do cause cancer.
[01:07:21] She does not let the inconsistency prevent her from making a larger decision in which cell phones play a role.
[01:07:30] So you can still function as you said.
[01:07:33] Almost any topic contains some level of data inconsistency.
[01:07:39] What financial markets are going to do in the future when the construction industry will rebound, which airlines will survive and whether we need more FAA-22 Raptors, which is currently the world's most advanced fighter, the key is that high cognitive ability leaders rise above the level of inconsistency and make decisions.
[01:08:02] They're not waiting for everything to be perfect.
[01:08:06] And I would just add to that.
[01:08:10] There's a level of cognitive ability that you get to where you realize there is no single right answer for anything.
[01:08:20] Therefore, any answer that you choose, any solution that you choose, will have a downside.
[01:08:32] At some point in the future, there will be unintended consequences for whatever you choose now.
[01:08:35] So, in a lot of cases with people who can think forward, they're looking at which unintended consequences am I willing to accept?
[01:08:46] You know, at some point, if I have enough time between now and then to begin to put in something that may counter that, I know they're coming.
[01:08:55] It's going to happen.
[01:08:57] But I want to make a decision we're going to move forward.
[01:09:00] It's worse not to make a decision because that's an unintended consequence too.
[01:09:06] There'll be unintended consequences for no action.
[01:09:10] You go on here, leaders with lower levels of cognitive ability are constrained by the information they receive.
[01:09:18] Infirmation must be consistent for them to make sense of it.
[01:09:23] High cognitive ability leaders by contrast rely on themselves to provide missing information, look for more novel information,
[01:09:31] and search across more domains to find information.
[01:09:35] Which is interesting.
[01:09:36] Search across more domains.
[01:09:37] There's a problem over here that's in a certain arena and a high cognitive figure will look at that arena and go, you know what?
[01:09:45] That's reminds me of this other arena.
[01:09:47] And I can apply this and overlay it to this arena that I'm looking at right now and further my decision making process.
[01:09:55] Add color to it.
[01:10:00] The greater they show and this is again the high cognitive ability leaders, they show greater certainty in judging inconsistent information and are more focused on long term strategies than low cognitive ability leaders are.
[01:10:14] But low cognitive ability leaders are looking at the short term game.
[01:10:19] The leader with high cognitive abilities uses multiple dimensions when processing information.
[01:10:25] These multi-dimensional, this multi-dimensional approach creates a high probability that the leader will match some facet of herself with a facet of another person during interpersonal interactions.
[01:10:40] This leader is more inclined toward a simulation of information about herself than a leader with a lower cognitive ability is.
[01:10:46] Thus, leaders with high cognitive ability show a propensity for receiving feedback.
[01:10:53] They seek out information about themselves or open the feedback and assimilate this information into knowledge about themselves.
[01:11:00] This goes back to me talking about being a humble person.
[01:11:03] If you're a humble person you can take feedback and you can put it into your world.
[01:11:07] And the other part that I found interesting about this is that the high probability, the high cognitive leader will match some facet of herself with the facet of other person.
[01:11:22] When I'm having an discussion with you and you have a different perspective or you're opposing me.
[01:11:28] You're arguing with me instead of me saying, no you're wrong.
[01:11:31] I will look at you and say, oh, what's what? Where are they getting that perspective?
[01:11:34] Oh, I see where he's getting that perspective from.
[01:11:36] That actually makes sense because he's on the front lines and he's doing this.
[01:11:39] Oh, okay.
[01:11:40] So I actually will put some facet.
[01:11:42] I will match some facet of myself to you so that I understand your perspective better.
[01:11:48] With this expanded knowledge and confidence they can more easily find some aspect of others with which they can connect.
[01:11:56] And this connection allows them to gain more feedback and knowledge.
[01:12:01] Again, one of my things that I talk about all the time is just humility and how leaders have to be humble.
[01:12:06] And which is actually one of the cool things that you said about barswell and we never talked about it, but you said, you know, he was really tough.
[01:12:13] He was super smart and he was humble.
[01:12:15] If those are those are the qualities you called out.
[01:12:18] Yeah.
[01:12:19] And that's what this represents to me.
[01:12:22] You continue here a liter with high cognitive ability,
[01:12:26] perceives herself as being more complex than the average individual.
[01:12:30] In a decision making situation, she might delay longer and submit a more complicated decision.
[01:12:37] Now, when I originally read that right there, I had a problem with it.
[01:12:42] Because because one of the monstrous age-old mantras of leadership, combat leadership for sure is simplicity, right?
[01:12:50] You got to keep things simple.
[01:12:52] So I'm going to come back to that one because my immediate reaction to it was wait a second.
[01:12:57] I don't know if I agree with that because we're talking about this person with a high cognitive ability.
[01:13:01] That's coming up with a more complicated decision.
[01:13:03] But I'll get back to it here.
[01:13:05] Her interpersonal reactions tend to result in greater perceived similarities between herself and more senior people.
[01:13:12] She may perceive differences between herself and others more accurately than a leader with lower cognitive abilities.
[01:13:18] This complex internal structure results in a greater perception of the external environmental structure,
[01:13:25] which can manifest in interpersonal conflict.
[01:13:30] So again, we have someone that can sense what someone else's perspective is.
[01:13:37] And this is where I come back to the simple thing.
[01:13:41] The high cognitive ability leader recognizes when she is communicating with others who are at a lower or higher level cognitive ability.
[01:13:50] When talking to a lower cognitive ability leader, she recognizes that person's simpler language structure,
[01:13:57] linear thought process, and shorter term focus, and will understand that the lower cognitive ability leader might not get what she's saying.
[01:14:06] So what that tells me take that one step further, what a really good high cognitive ability leader will do is take the complex answer and simplify it down.
[01:14:17] So that this lower cognitive ability leader can actually understand it.
[01:14:22] So even though it might be a more complicated decision, the lower cognitive leader below me doesn't need to know that,
[01:14:29] they're going to get the simplified version that they can grasp and make sense to them and then move forward.
[01:14:36] Continuing on, when she is talking to someone of equal or higher cognitive ability,
[01:14:41] she may find that the conversation moves faster and is more enjoyable and stimulating.
[01:14:46] Low cognitive ability leaders tend to use fewer dimensions when processing stimuli, resulting in fewer and less complex information domains,
[01:14:55] and a lower probability of matching some facet of themselves with that of another person.
[01:15:03] And again, see, this is why I think it's important to talk about this because if you can't relate to other people,
[01:15:14] if you're having a hard time talking to people up the chain of command, talking to people down the chain of command, talking to your peers,
[01:15:20] if you're saying, oh, they don't get it.
[01:15:23] They don't understand how can they think that way?
[01:15:27] If you're thinking that, if that's going to be your mind, that's a little red flag that you are,
[01:15:33] it's a little symbol or a sign of low cognitive ability.
[01:15:39] You're the one that's not getting it.
[01:15:41] Yes, so when you get there, instead of continuing to point the finger outward, take a look at yourself,
[01:15:50] and recognize the fact that there's you need to try and find some common ground with other people.
[01:15:57] And the fact that you can't find common ground with other people is a sign that you have low cognitive ability, and that's a problem.
[01:16:07] So I'm hoping, again, I know this can't be trained, but I'm hoping that when you become aware of it, you say, oh, that's me.
[01:16:15] That's me.
[01:16:16] And this is the worst part about this whole section.
[01:16:19] The worst part about this whole section is this.
[01:16:22] What I'm hoping for is that the people with low cognitive ability will recognize that this is about them, right?
[01:16:29] This is about me, okay?
[01:16:31] I tend to do this sometimes. I can't connect with other people. I can't see their perspective, you know what?
[01:16:38] That's that's me. That's on me.
[01:16:41] That's what I'm hoping people say. Unfortunately, people with low cognitive ability have a much lower chance of actually being able to recognize this.
[01:16:52] So that's the problem. It's a catch-twenty, too.
[01:16:55] Yeah, it is.
[01:16:56] Continuing.
[01:17:01] They tend to contrast themselves with others that are and are less open to feedback.
[01:17:06] Another great point. If you're not humble and you're not, again, I use the word humble.
[01:17:12] If you're not open to people telling you, hey, you know what you could do this better?
[01:17:16] That is an actual sign of low cognitive ability.
[01:17:20] I hate to break the news, too.
[01:17:23] The next one, in their interpersonal interactions, they tend to perceive themselves as being more similar to their peers and less similar to their superiors.
[01:17:32] They are predisposed to be more rigid and concrete in their thinking.
[01:17:38] This is another. This is something that you can recognize in yourself. This is something I can recognize myself.
[01:17:44] When I'm going, no, we got to do it this way.
[01:17:47] No, this is the way it's going to be. That's an indication to me that I am tending towards low cognitive ability.
[01:17:56] And what I need to do is open my mind and try some new things, accept some new ideas.
[01:18:04] Otherwise, I'm putting myself on report for being a low cognitive thinker.
[01:18:11] Let me, let me share one thing.
[01:18:16] If you're a high cognitive ability person, if you become angry, the tendency is for you to start to drop in levels.
[01:18:28] In terms of your response right now, the interaction right now, the more angry you get, the more you drop really low.
[01:18:36] And when you hear people to argue, and very often, if they're angry, very often, they both drop way down here.
[01:18:43] And that's where the problem is, we got to get you back up.
[01:18:48] And you hear it all the time in meetings and between people, and just listen to what they're focused on.
[01:18:54] Listen to the time frame that they're focused on.
[01:18:57] Listen to the concreteness of what they're focused on.
[01:19:00] And you can figure out where they are.
[01:19:03] Now, how can we elevate? If you and I have in this conversation, and I'm down here, and I'm really, I've dug my heels in.
[01:19:12] You're just, you're just wrong, Jaco.
[01:19:14] It is, you know, it's not really wrong with you.
[01:19:17] If you can't see my point here, if I'm dug in down here, we're not going to be able to resolve this.
[01:19:24] Yep, I just added a discussion on this with a client.
[01:19:27] It's like the best thing I can do when you say, I don't like this.
[01:19:33] I don't like your plan, Jaco.
[01:19:35] The best thing I can do isn't, well, that's because you don't understand it.
[01:19:38] The best thing you can say, well, hey, can you, can you give me some feedback on what you're doing?
[01:19:41] You give me some feedback on what it is you don't like about my plan?
[01:19:44] Because now, instead of you digging your heels in and looking how you're going to strike me, you're actually looking to formulate a legitimate answer to a legitimate question.
[01:19:54] And by the way, when you ask that question, I'm not just asking you this question, so I can trick you.
[01:20:00] No, I'm legitimately asking for feedback because maybe you know something that I don't know or maybe you see something that I don't see.
[01:20:07] So I immediately get us to start moving up that ladder again, instead of down where when you say, I don't like your plan, I say, that's because you've too dumb to understand it.
[01:20:17] Right.
[01:20:18] Where's that conversation going?
[01:20:19] You dropped all the way down.
[01:20:21] Yeah.
[01:20:22] You continue on here.
[01:20:24] The accuracy of their predictions, this is again, low cognitive, the accuracy of their predictions about others is directly proportional to the amount of information they have about others.
[01:20:34] Their concreteness filters out more aspects of the external environment structure, particularly when they're under stress.
[01:20:43] Low cognitive ability leaders tend to have a relatively narrow set of interests and knowledge domains, although they may have an in-depth knowledge in a few areas.
[01:20:54] But consequently, they look for others who share one or more of their interests, unlike the high cognitive ability leader, they do not have a broad range of areas of expertise they can use to connect with others.
[01:21:09] The bottom line is that leaders with, and what that tells me is, hey, you know, I need to get outside my zone, right?
[01:21:17] Cool. I like jujitsu and I like war.
[01:21:21] But if that's the only people I hang around with, I'm not expanding my horizons.
[01:21:25] So I need to go and play in a band and draw and write and hang out with people that are doing those other things as well.
[01:21:38] The bottom line is that leaders with high cognitive ability are able to possess greater amounts of information and operate more successfully in complex environments with a higher level of inconsistency and ambiguity.
[01:21:50] Then can leaders with low cognitive ability.
[01:21:54] As they rise to higher roles, role levels in an organization, the problems they face become more complex and ambiguous.
[01:22:00] These leaders with high cognitive ability tend to perform well at upper organizational echelons.
[01:22:08] So true. I mean, you can think about just a difference in any job, right?
[01:22:13] Your frontline troops is concerned with, you know, this part of the manufacturing line.
[01:22:17] It's relatively small. It's not a complex thing. And then the more higher up you get in the organization, the more complex decisions are being made and whatnot.
[01:22:26] And the good thing is when we think about cognitive ability is there's a place for everyone.
[01:22:33] You have a real need for everyone.
[01:22:36] Someone has to do that day-to-day hour-to-hour work and be happy with it. Be good. Be happy.
[01:22:46] Go home at the end of the day saying, yes, I knocked out out of the part above them.
[01:22:51] You need somebody with a little bit more. That's really good at that level.
[01:22:56] And, you know, so getting the right person into the right role level at the right time, because if we think about cognitive ability for a lot of people is continuing to change.
[01:23:09] So there's like a growth curve that you can see. You'll flatten out someplace.
[01:23:14] But as long as they're growing, they can take on higher and higher role levels as they cross those different thresholds.
[01:23:23] Eventually they're going to hit a point where, I mean, this is it.
[01:23:27] They need to be happy here because if you move them up to the next one, they're going to fail.
[01:23:33] Yeah, and what I've see with people is there's a certain spot where they go, yeah, this is where I'm at.
[01:23:39] And I'm comfortable in this area, not comfortable in a bad way of like on my comfort zone,
[01:23:43] but you start to move them outside that cognitive ability level and all of a sudden they're stressed.
[01:23:49] Yeah, because they're trying to make decisions on inconsistent information and it's too much.
[01:23:54] And you know what? That's like you just said, that's actually good because now we know what the limitations are.
[01:24:01] And now you can focus on this cognitive ability level where you excel at, because by the way, you get somebody with really good cognitive ability.
[01:24:10] And you put them in a job that doesn't require as much.
[01:24:15] Well, now they're going to be bored and you use a term in this book, which I had never actually heard before.
[01:24:19] It's not burnout. It's the opposite burnout. It's called Rust Out.
[01:24:23] So that's all good. And like I said, we work with all kinds of organizations.
[01:24:27] And the other interesting point I got to make is the cognitive ability isn't doesn't measure your intelligence.
[01:24:33] It measures a bunch of different things that and just like some people are more articulate and some people are taller and some people are shorter.
[01:24:42] Like this is one of those things where some components combine together.
[01:24:47] And you could have somebody that went to an Ivy League school and I know I got to see this in the Seal teams.
[01:24:52] People that went to Ivy League schools, they scored super high on whatever IQ test there are.
[01:24:58] Their cognitive ability is not high because they can't look at complex things. They get wrapped around minutia or whatever the case may be.
[01:25:07] So this is a really interesting thing. I would like to think and maybe it's just because I'm a positive thinking person.
[01:25:17] I would like to think that if a person has humility and they say, you know what?
[01:25:23] When I hear that when I hear it being described that having concrete ideas probably means that my cognitive ability is a lower.
[01:25:36] Maybe I need to open my mind up a little bit and maybe they can.
[01:25:42] I know that I saw leaders and I still see leaders.
[01:25:46] I know for a fact I see leaders get better become better leaders and be able to look at complex things and and start to understand that information doesn't need to be perfect.
[01:25:56] And even if I look at myself when I was when I first got to the Seal teams and I was a new guy, I couldn't look at a complex problem immediately.
[01:26:03] Oh, okay, you know what? Oh, that these two pieces of information are kind of different, but I can make a sound decision that will make sense right now and we can make some adaptations later.
[01:26:12] Got it. No, I would have been looking for hey, what's this writer is that right. I don't know which one. Okay, I got to move forward with it.
[01:26:19] So I think that that idea that you can improve it is a positive thing.
[01:26:24] Even though it, I don't know. Does that mean it's trainable?
[01:26:28] What happens is I, I'm growing and I cross a threshold and I don't realize it.
[01:26:36] I don't realize that I have more ability all of a sudden because it is like a stair step.
[01:26:41] It jumps up, it goes along, it jumps up and when it makes that jump, I might not realize it initially.
[01:26:48] And so I might need a coach. I might need you to come in and work with me to help me start to use this increased ability that I have.
[01:26:59] Because I don't realize how to do it. So, you know, we work with leaders a lot, helping them be able to take advantage of their abilities that they have.
[01:27:09] Because a lot of times they don't know what, they don't know they can handle more ambiguity.
[01:27:15] I think further into the future because in their job, they're not allowed to. You're in a role level where they keep pulling you back down to here,
[01:27:25] even though you have a lot more ability. So one of the things that we're looking at with people in an organization is are you working at your potential.
[01:27:35] Do you have unused potential that if we could help you to start to use it, you raise the whole bar for the organization.
[01:27:43] And performance, level for the organization goes up because now you're operating closer to your full potential than you were before.
[01:27:52] We were doing immediate action drills. I was tasked with a commander, double two commander, two two two commanders were Seth and lay,
[01:27:59] lay, play for all the books. And may Seth was the other two commander, the Delta Ptun commander, and you know the deal with immediate action drills. There's a standard operating procedure. There's a place where you're going to go on a p-left on a p-right on a center p-le on a flank right on a flank left on there's there's positions for you to go into.
[01:28:19] And so I was watching him in his p-tun and basically the call would get made whether it was him or whether it was the leading petty officer or whoever someone to make a call.
[01:28:30] And I'd watch him and he would stay like in the precise position that the standard operating procedure dictates him to be in.
[01:28:38] And so which meant that if he ran down the ravine and was facing the six foot wall of a ravine and couldn't see anything he was going to stand there because that's where you're supposed to be.
[01:28:49] And I say hey man, what can you see right now? You know it's like well nothing. Well why don't you move a little bit? Well because that's not the standard operating procedure. Well guess what? You're the Ptun commander.
[01:29:01] You're okay. You can have someone fill in here right and you can go and you can crawl up this little this little part of the ravine and you can actually see maybe an out where you can direct your guys so you can get out of this cone of fire. How does that sound?
[01:29:14] So that becoming aware that you're allowed to move that you're allowed to think that you're allowed to take action.
[01:29:21] And reminds me of what you just said about a leader being able to step up suddenly realizing that like a stair step up as soon as you realize that he's like oh oh I can move around and yes as a leader yes you can.
[01:29:37] Talk about emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence focuses on the interpersonal and emotional aspects of innate ability it can be defined as a person's innate ability to perceive and manage his own perceptions in a manner that results in successful interactions with the environment and if others are present to perceive and manage their emotions in a manner that result in successful interpersonal reactions.
[01:30:04] Emotional intelligence being able to read people. You talk about the innate ability to do this.
[01:30:12] But can you learn it? To some degree. Okay good. I'm glad you said that because I've talked to people and help people.
[01:30:21] Like let me give you a big hint on emotional intelligence to anyone that's listening. If you want to get better at it. Here's a good step to take. Be quiet and listen to what people are saying.
[01:30:33] You know when you actually shut your mouth and listen people will and you truly listen to what they're saying you can hear what their tone sounds like and pay attention to it.
[01:30:43] When you're not listening when you're on transmit instead of receive you're not going to you're not going to perceive as much about their emotional state at that time.
[01:30:59] Which means you're going to react badly to it. So instead of being on transmit mode for those of you that don't know what I'm talking about when you're on a radio as a radio man when you're pressing that push to talk button your transmitting information.
[01:31:12] Don't be on transmit be on receive that's my advice that'll improve your emotional intelligence in the next five minutes.
[01:31:22] Motivation. Motivation is a combination of work aspiration.
[01:31:28] The role level the role level the leader aspires to reach a motivators what drives the leader to be fully engaged at work. Demotivators what cause the leader to lose interest in work and drive for results.
[01:31:40] The leaders need to achieve in general motivation is highly associated with job performance and promotability.
[01:31:48] I think Jordan Peterson calls this conscientiousness like are you going to do your job.
[01:31:55] The personality. A leader's personality tends to be hardwired so that most of his core preferences for interacting with people gathering information decision making and general orientation to life change little over the course of his life.
[01:32:11] You kind of get what you get.
[01:32:16] How often do you see people's personalities change?
[01:32:18] Not much. We're asked all the time. You got a fix. You got a fix.
[01:32:26] And we can work with him. We can smooth with all some of the edges.
[01:32:31] But he's still going to be a co-chance when the dust cells.
[01:32:35] That's the sad fact that I've been dealing with for quite some time.
[01:32:40] Here's what I have. Here's what I have seen.
[01:32:49] One thing that I have seen people change personality from some kind of event that takes place in their life like usually a traumatic event.
[01:32:55] Something happens. Bad, good.
[01:32:59] Chants luck and they they end up it's not going to drastically change their personality.
[01:33:04] Because over time people will be the gravity of their personality will draw them back to who they are.
[01:33:11] But occasionally the times that I've seen personalities change the most is something happens.
[01:33:17] And that changes their personality.
[01:33:20] But it's hard.
[01:33:24] It's hard to change someone.
[01:33:27] That's story about the what is it the frog and the scorpion and the frog says I'll take you over.
[01:33:31] The scorpion says can we take me over and he says no if I take you over the river you'll you'll sting me and I'll die.
[01:33:36] And he says no why would I do that we both die and they go across and of course the scorpion.
[01:33:39] Stings is why do you do that because on the scorpion what do you think I was going to do so.
[01:33:44] The fundamental core of leadership is decision making.
[01:33:48] Everything a leader does or does not do is the result of decisions.
[01:33:51] Every day leaders are called upon to make decisions routine and non routine.
[01:33:57] And then you say problem solving is just a series of decisions.
[01:34:01] Good point.
[01:34:03] You have these steps.
[01:34:05] The seven step problem solving model one identify the problem two gather the information.
[01:34:11] Three redefine the problem.
[01:34:13] Four generate alternatives.
[01:34:15] Of course is a action.
[01:34:16] Five evaluate alternatives.
[01:34:19] Six selected implement the solution seven evaluate the results and then back to one again.
[01:34:25] So that's what we're doing all the time and you talk about the Udalupe in here which we've talked about bunch on the on this podcast.
[01:34:35] And then you talk about the other the loop that what is it the Pamma loop what's that loop.
[01:34:41] That's where you're perceiving information which is so this one reminded me of the Udalupe right there they're very similar.
[01:34:47] So you perceive information comes in your system you appraise it you know makes sense out of it which is like orient right so it's a very brilliant so those two are pretty close right perceive.
[01:35:01] And and observe would be the P and the O.
[01:35:05] And then you get to A which is what is it in the Pamma what is it's in for a s s.
[01:35:11] And then you get to the appraise and that's very similar to orient.
[01:35:17] Okay then what's the M then we we get into to the motivational part and then we get to get into the action.
[01:35:27] And then we're back into loop again.
[01:35:29] Yeah and you in the last one is action in the Pamma loop and in and in the Udalupe it's act.
[01:35:35] So you go through you know kind of dissecting what these two the differences are the similarities and that's that's definitely an interesting thing because again.
[01:35:47] See for me I always have this I guess positive outlook on things that.
[01:35:53] If you know something.
[01:35:55] You can at least try and apply it right so people do the Udalupe people do the Pamma loop.
[01:36:01] But they don't know it and so therefore when they miss it or they do it or they or they get caught in some.
[01:36:07] Meaningless cycle of it if they don't know that that's what they're doing they can't even correct it but if you're aware oh you know what I'm I'm not acting.
[01:36:16] That's why I'm sitting here I'm not acting so I need to I need to take action.
[01:36:21] So I think being aware of things just like being aware of low cognitive ability if you're aware of it even if you're aware of it.
[01:36:28] Hopefully you can make some adjustments in your life to get it moving in the right direction you talk about.
[01:36:35] Rational strategies which is.
[01:36:40] Logical sequential analytical conscious well fought out process that takes time and typically involves others so this is hey we're going to come up with a rational decision.
[01:36:53] For our problem and the other one is intuitive which is intuitive decisions are made quickly automatically emotionally.
[01:37:02] Mostly unconsciously.
[01:37:05] And this is the type of decision usually made in routine or emergency situations.
[01:37:11] So these again these are two if you understand these two things that you can make a rational decision or you can make an intuitive decision and understand what the short falls of each other.
[01:37:22] Because you can make two rational of a decision right you can analyze things to death or you can just look at the numbers or and you just make that kind of decision it can be wrong or you can make an intuitive decision which can also be wrong.
[01:37:35] And it can be right so what are the shortness is that this is again.
[01:37:40] Stuff that you cover in depth in this book.
[01:37:44] Which is very a very interesting book and I believe will raise people's awareness and make them more capable of making decisions and by the way right now this is page 35 in the book.
[01:37:55] The book is actually called the stress effect how why smart leaders make dumb decisions and what to do about it.
[01:38:01] So all you've done up into this point is explaining.
[01:38:05] What types of leaders there are what types of decisions are being made.
[01:38:09] So that way you can then explain what stresses.
[01:38:13] And what stress does to your decision making process many of the things of which we've already talked about.
[01:38:20] Yeah, stress just just always your decision making process as the stress level goes up.
[01:38:27] Your cognitive ability goes down your emotional intelligence goes down the quality of your decision making goes down.
[01:38:36] So managing stress is really key.
[01:38:39] If you're in a combat situation you're going to make a lot of intuitive decisions when I get all my feet and I look at I see there are two NVA standing there and they look at me and they turn their weapons.
[01:38:54] I'm not going to say okay.
[01:38:57] Let me see here now.
[01:39:00] What do I think the problem is let me heard those NVA what's going to happen and I don't work through that big problem solving process.
[01:39:08] I see it.
[01:39:09] I see the answer.
[01:39:10] I pull the trigger.
[01:39:12] And I've got to do it.
[01:39:14] I got to do it.
[01:39:15] I got to do it.
[01:39:16] That's a good idea.
[01:39:17] And but when I asked somebody and I do this all the time.
[01:39:20] Somebody will talk about a decision like that and when I say how did you make that decision?
[01:39:26] They immediately launch into that problem solving model.
[01:39:29] That's it.
[01:39:30] You did it in the last two seconds.
[01:39:32] You didn't have time to do all of those things.
[01:39:35] What you're doing is you're using the solution that's setting on the top of what I call a dominant response hierarchy.
[01:39:44] You have trained and trained and trained to produce a certain response.
[01:39:49] When you see them, squeeze the trigger as you're going down.
[01:39:53] That's setting up there.
[01:39:55] And that's what you're going to execute.
[01:39:56] If you want to execute a different plan, you're going to have to train in something else up there because it's going to come so fast.
[01:40:04] And that's how you survive in a life and death situation.
[01:40:09] You've got to make a decision and you've got to do it very quickly.
[01:40:13] And if you have time, you've got to weaker so to make a decision.
[01:40:18] You can bring your team in.
[01:40:19] You can work through that problem solving model and you know come up with a good decision.
[01:40:24] If you've got two seconds, you can't do that.
[01:40:27] You go to the intuitive because it's so much faster.
[01:40:30] But it's going to grab whatever is setting at the top.
[01:40:33] So you better be training for the right response.
[01:40:37] And that's where the training comes in over and over and over in that sort ofmatic.
[01:40:41] When you, when you watch pro-affleets, they train all the time.
[01:40:47] And they train for particular responses.
[01:40:51] And that's why they can do it so fast.
[01:40:53] If you like to play golf and you play golf was someone.
[01:40:57] If you want to give yourself an advantage.
[01:41:00] And the guy you're playing with is a really good putter.
[01:41:05] So you get on the green.
[01:41:08] And you say,
[01:41:10] Jaka, I've always been impressed with your ability to make those long puts.
[01:41:17] I mean, we're friends.
[01:41:19] Help me out here.
[01:41:20] To help me what you think about.
[01:41:22] I mean, when you're getting ready to put,
[01:41:25] you're talking to me through the steps that you go through to make that put.
[01:41:30] He's going to blow it.
[01:41:31] Because now he's thinking rather than executing.
[01:41:35] You know, pros execute.
[01:41:37] It's automatic.
[01:41:38] They don't have to think about it.
[01:41:39] You make them think about it to blow it.
[01:41:41] When singers are singing a national anthem or something.
[01:41:45] If they make the mistake of thinking about what words come in next in the lyrics,
[01:41:49] they're going to blow it.
[01:41:51] Yeah.
[01:41:52] You, it's got to be automatic.
[01:41:54] I, well, we train a lot of GJitsu.
[01:41:57] And, you know, I talk about GJitsu with the laws of combat and leadership and life and how it all is intertwined.
[01:42:05] And guy said to me,
[01:42:06] Hey, what, how does decentralized command fit into GJitsu?
[01:42:11] I don't see where the, I see where prioritize next.
[01:42:14] He's, I see where simple is.
[01:42:15] I see where covering movies.
[01:42:17] I see where those are in GJitsu, but where's decentralized command?
[01:42:20] And I said, here's exactly where it is.
[01:42:23] You need to train enough that your body parts know to execute without being told what to do.
[01:42:30] So when it comes time to defend your arm, you need to move that arm.
[01:42:34] You don't have time to think about it.
[01:42:35] Just like you don't have time to tell the platoon commander or the squad leader,
[01:42:39] Hey, take and put down cover fire as we move to the flank mode.
[01:42:42] They've got to have the instinct to make that happen without you needing to tell them.
[01:42:46] So that's where decentralized command comes in to your, to your GJitsu game.
[01:42:52] You talk about this recognition primed decision model or RPD and just hitting a couple things here.
[01:43:03] Here's what you do assess the situation.
[01:43:05] Avaluated course of action, select an option, develop a solution set, generate an evaluate options,
[01:43:10] adjust the option, take action.
[01:43:12] And again, these are very similar ideas,
[01:43:16] but there's little nuances that you spell out,
[01:43:19] pretty, that you spell out inside the book.
[01:43:22] Here's one, the technique of sufficing allows a solution to be chosen that is not perfect,
[01:43:28] but it's sufficient to provide a satisfactory solution to the problem.
[01:43:32] The RPD model chooses the first solution that might work a sufficing approach.
[01:43:39] In most cases, trying to choose a solution using a maximizing,
[01:43:44] which is optimal or perfect approach tends to be unrealistic and inefficient,
[01:43:48] because the leaders making decisions in an environment where all the information about the problem
[01:43:52] and possible solutions are unknown.
[01:43:56] So this is a great thing that I think I have always used.
[01:44:01] Sufficing.
[01:44:03] Yeah, that's the solution.
[01:44:04] It's going to be good enough.
[01:44:05] We need to go with it.
[01:44:10] You talk about cognitive intelligence.
[01:44:13] And now this is a little bit different.
[01:44:15] cognitive intelligence.
[01:44:18] A very general mental capability that among other things involves the ability to reason, plan, solve problems,
[01:44:26] think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn quickly, and learn from experience.
[01:44:33] It is not merely book learning, a narrow academic skill or test-taking smarts.
[01:44:39] Rather, it reflects a broader and deeper capability for comprehending our surroundings.
[01:44:45] And then there's these terms catching on, making sense of things, or figuring out what to do.
[01:44:53] So this is a different type of intelligence, which obviously is very important.
[01:45:02] That definition is an excellent starting point for thinking about leadership and decision,
[01:45:07] especially the last point about figuring out cognitive intelligence doesn't begin and end with having some smarts.
[01:45:14] An individual must know what to do with his or her cognitive intelligence.
[01:45:19] And this is once again, you get these smart young officers that at a certain point in the field teams,
[01:45:25] I mean, we're getting these incredibly qualified on paper individuals that were, you know, they should be this
[01:45:33] smartest people in the world, but you would see them have probably not all of them, of course,
[01:45:37] some of them were great.
[01:45:38] Some of the guys went to Harvard, Yale, and everywhere else, and they were fantastic.
[01:45:41] But some of them, there wasn't all like that, wasn't across the board.
[01:45:44] And that's exactly what you're talking about here.
[01:45:46] You got to be smart, but you got to know what to do with those smarts.
[01:45:50] To some of the things that the cognitive intelligence, some of the abilities that includes
[01:46:02] fluid reasoning, crystallized intelligence, visual processing, auditory processing,
[01:46:11] processing speed, short-term memory, long-term retrieval quantitative knowledge,
[01:46:17] correct decision speed.
[01:46:18] Again, these are, as you think about these things.
[01:46:22] And if you're a humble person, you'll think to yourself, you know what?
[01:46:27] I need to learn the problem.
[01:46:29] I need to, I don't process things very well. What should I do to counter that?
[01:46:33] Maybe I should prepare more.
[01:46:34] Maybe I should study more.
[01:46:35] My auditory processing.
[01:46:39] Hey, how well do I actually listen?
[01:46:41] What can I do to improve my listening skills?
[01:46:43] If you don't admit that you don't listen well, you're not going to get any better at it.
[01:46:47] I'm not going to get any better.
[01:47:00] Conventive intelligence moderating factors.
[01:47:03] When all things aren't eaten, so here's some things that you talk about when it comes to cognitive intelligence.
[01:47:06] The factors that come into play.
[01:47:08] One of them is environment.
[01:47:09] You got a very interesting study.
[01:47:11] A group of kids that they gave better opportunities for two, you know, like low income kids.
[01:47:18] They gave really good opportunities to some and didn't give them to the other ones.
[01:47:23] And actually didn't have that much of an effect which surprised me.
[01:47:26] Like there was a little bump in the beginning, but then it just leveled out.
[01:47:29] Most most of those studies are short-term studies.
[01:47:35] So they create those environments.
[01:47:40] A few months later they get test and they say, wow, ten of them.
[01:47:44] This group really improved, but then they don't come back two years later, three years later.
[01:47:50] When you find those studies, they everybody's back to the same as they get older.
[01:47:56] But a time kids are 15.
[01:47:58] Most of the stuff, this enriched environment, kind of work that you do with them when they're young.
[01:48:04] Everybody's back to the same.
[01:48:07] They've all matured back to the same place.
[01:48:12] So you can't just look at what happens the first few months.
[01:48:15] But nobody wants to do that.
[01:48:17] They want to play with their study and move on.
[01:48:19] Hey, I got great results.
[01:48:20] They work.
[01:48:21] They want to sell you the Einstein music for your kids.
[01:48:24] Yeah.
[01:48:25] Maybe Einstein.
[01:48:26] Yeah, whatever it's about.
[01:48:27] Maybe Einstein.
[01:48:28] Little Einstein.
[01:48:29] Yeah.
[01:48:30] We talk about age.
[01:48:35] Here's some things.
[01:48:36] If you want to help preserve cognitive intelligence.
[01:48:42] Cardiovascular.
[01:48:43] The absence.
[01:48:44] Here's some things that that that specific factors that seem to help preserve cognitive intelligence.
[01:48:48] It's people age.
[01:48:49] The absence of cardiovascular and other chronic diseases.
[01:48:51] A favorable environment above average education, occupational presuits.
[01:48:55] It's involving high complexity and low routine above average income and the maintenance of intact families.
[01:49:02] A complex and intellectually stimulating environment.
[01:49:05] A flexible personality style at midlife being married to a spouse with high cognitive intelligence.
[01:49:11] Maintenance of high levels of perceptual processing speed.
[01:49:16] Being satisfied with life's accomplishments.
[01:49:20] Important.
[01:49:21] And some of those things are hard for you to do.
[01:49:23] I mean, they happen.
[01:49:26] The most important thing that you can do to maintain your cognitive ability, your intellectual ability,
[01:49:36] is a road we exercise.
[01:49:39] Nothing has been proven long term to have a greater impact on your brain's operating, particularly.
[01:49:47] Delay in the onset of dementia or Alzheimer's.
[01:49:51] Nothing does better than a road we exercise.
[01:49:54] Or you're pumping the blood, you're pumping the food, and you're brain, you're cleaning your brain out.
[01:50:02] A road we exercise is all I'll do it for you.
[01:50:05] Good information.
[01:50:09] Talk about memory and then you talk about physical conditioning, which I'm a big supporter of.
[01:50:15] Nutrition.
[01:50:17] Obviously, if you're not eating clean, sleep, getting good sleep, there's one of my weaknesses.
[01:50:23] I don't sleep very much.
[01:50:27] Cognitive intelligence can be a double-edged sword.
[01:50:30] A leader with high cognitive intelligence can possess.
[01:50:33] Can process information rapidly, solve complex problems quickly, and make effective decisions.
[01:50:38] He might also be perceived by his team as arrogant, condescending, and impatient.
[01:50:45] The leader knows he can do the work better and faster than his team members, and may forget sometimes that they don't have his ability.
[01:50:55] This is one of those where I'm worried about saying that one.
[01:50:59] Because what this does is, it makes someone say, well, you know, people think I'm arrogant, because I'm so smart, because I have high cognitive ability.
[01:51:07] That's everyone else's problem.
[01:51:09] But as I've said to many smart people over the years, if you're so smart, why are you winning?
[01:51:17] Yeah, I mean, we see it all the time.
[01:51:20] That double-edged sword, you come across as a jerk, you come across as arrogant, and you're condescending toward people.
[01:51:29] It's always taking you so long.
[01:51:31] I mean, this is simple.
[01:51:33] Well, for you, it might be, but for the average person, it's not. And when you start putting that kind of feedback out, you're just taking too long.
[01:51:42] I don't understand what's wrong with you.
[01:51:45] You're just killing your motivation and causing them to see you more as a jerk.
[01:51:51] That's going to hurt your leadership capital.
[01:51:54] Talk a little bit about emotion here.
[01:51:56] All human decisions have some emotional component.
[01:51:59] That's the way the brain is wired as you're about to see.
[01:52:02] The more a leader understands the emotional component of decision making, the more effective her decisions can become.
[01:52:10] Emotions happen.
[01:52:12] Emotions are neural impulses that happen inside the brain and trigger a motivation to reach a goal.
[01:52:17] Emotions are goal oriented. Whenever you try it, whenever you experience a motion, there is an end goal that the emotion is trying to move you toward.
[01:52:25] Emotions have their beginning in the unconscious.
[01:52:29] And most of them stay there. When an emotion becomes conscious, we have a feeling.
[01:52:34] For example, when the emotion of fear becomes conscious, I feel scared. Emotions can be viewed as providing situational reports about what is happening in the body.
[01:52:44] Why am I shaking? I feel scared. Emotions have survival value.
[01:52:50] David Caruso and Peter Salave researchers and educators provide the following linkages between emotions.
[01:52:58] And survival. Fear from a survival standpoint is let's get out of here.
[01:53:03] Sadness is help me. Discussed is don't eat that.
[01:53:08] Anger is about fighting. When you get angry, your anger raises your energy level to overcome an obstacle in your path.
[01:53:18] So there you go. You've got to recognize what's going on with these emotions.
[01:53:23] Emotional intelligence has always been present and identified.
[01:53:27] But not valued as intelligence.
[01:53:30] 1995 Daniel Goldman brought emotional intelligence into the world's consciousness with the publication of his bestselling book emotional intelligence.
[01:53:37] Why it can matter more than IQ. His books quickly spawned a perifflation of articles, books, workshops, training materials, assessments, and conferences on emotional intelligence.
[01:53:47] A cottage industry spring up almost overnight.
[01:53:50] The terminal emotional intelligence is used to describe a non-cognitive type of intelligence.
[01:53:55] I define it as a person's innate ability to perceive and manage his own emotions in a manner that results in successful interactions with the environment.
[01:54:05] And if others are present to also perceive and manage their emotions in a manner that results in successful interpersonal interactions.
[01:54:16] Note that this definition does not require interaction with another person.
[01:54:20] Emotional intelligence involves managing, controlling the awareness and appraising of emotions and the resulting motivation and action in a manner that produces successful outcomes,
[01:54:30] whether in the presence or absence of others.
[01:54:35] It's a leader. I need to understand my emotions and how they impact me and what it causes me to do or how I can use it.
[01:54:45] I need to understand yours so that I want you to proof a document for me.
[01:54:52] If I make you really happy and then say proof this, you'll miss most of the time post.
[01:54:58] If I make you irritated, you'll find them all. You'll rip it apart. If they're something in there, you'll find it.
[01:55:04] So understanding the impact that the emotions are having on you and your performance and which way it drives you.
[01:55:12] That's using emotional intelligence to be successful, to help you be successful.
[01:55:19] You know, same on the battlefield. I need to understand the emotions that you're probably going to experience and what are they going to do to you?
[01:55:27] How do you need to adapt them? How do you need to redirect them? Understanding that fear takes away your fine motor skills.
[01:55:37] And I need to train you to be of the operate without those fine motor skills to be able to use the gross motor skills and still perform just as well.
[01:55:45] You just have to perform the task a little differently.
[01:55:49] So, she, without aiming, you learn the quick kill technique.
[01:55:53] You talk about high jackers of emotional intelligence.
[01:55:59] When the high jacking occurs, it sets up an opportunity for your evil twin, the skipie to come forward.
[01:56:08] Skipie is the bad side of you who says and does things that are uncharacteristic of you.
[01:56:12] It was not Mike Tyson who bit off the piece of it,
[01:56:15] Evander Hall of Foods, Ir during a championship, fight in 1997. It was Tyson's evil twin, skipie.
[01:56:21] So then you just go on to describe the fact that you've got to keep your emotions in check.
[01:56:30] And something we all need to look at for, especially Mike Tyson.
[01:56:39] Stress interferes with the citizen making it.
[01:56:43] And again, now, I've already talked about a bunch of stuff.
[01:56:46] Getting into some of the book. More control equals less stress. I really like this part.
[01:56:51] Data collected over the years on stress levels within the baboon population.
[01:56:56] Reveal that a higher baboon is in the hierarchy, the less stress he experiences.
[01:57:01] These results suggest that the amount of control you have over your situation influences the amount of stress you experience.
[01:57:09] Just to give in example.
[01:57:12] In the old days, with a sock team you got on a helicopter.
[01:57:17] You flew out to do your insertion.
[01:57:20] You found out what was going on at the LZ when you got there.
[01:57:25] And one day I asked the crew chief, you got an extra headset up here.
[01:57:33] Can I wear that headset?
[01:57:35] And he said, you're, so when I put the headset on, all of a sudden I'm listening to Cubby.
[01:57:41] Talk. I'm listening to our gunships talk. I'm listening about what's going on at LZ or they prepping it or they're seeing anything.
[01:57:49] Did they receive an aircraft fire on the way out there?
[01:57:53] If the LZ is hot, I know it. I know what side is hot.
[01:57:57] And I may have a plan that we're going to exit the aircraft and go east.
[01:58:02] I really need to go west.
[01:58:04] All of a sudden I've got all this information that I can use to make decisions.
[01:58:09] And I could just literally feel most stress level coming down.
[01:58:12] Okay. I understand what's going on now.
[01:58:14] I don't have to figure it out in two seconds when I get there and I'm being shot at it.
[01:58:18] Now I've got a plan.
[01:58:20] So given myself control, I don't know why we didn't do that right from the beginning.
[01:58:26] But I know for me once I, once I could get access to that information,
[01:58:32] it just made all the difference in the world.
[01:58:34] Yeah. There was a study and I'm trying to remember it all.
[01:58:38] It was something about like, I think I don't know if these cats are people or what,
[01:58:41] but it was like they'd get a shock.
[01:58:43] No, this is the rats.
[01:58:44] I've talked about this at the master.
[01:58:46] Okay. Yeah.
[01:58:47] Yeah.
[01:58:47] Yeah.
[01:58:47] Yeah.
[01:58:47] Like so they'd shock them with a certain strength, right?
[01:58:51] Of shock?
[01:58:52] No. So this is the deal.
[01:58:53] There's a cage.
[01:58:54] Yeah.
[01:58:54] Two sides to the cage.
[01:58:56] Each of the floors in the cage deliver a shock.
[01:59:01] One of them has a stronger shock, but there's a light that comes on before the shock goes off.
[01:59:09] And so they're able to like expect it and understand it.
[01:59:12] Yeah.
[01:59:12] The other side less of a shock, but it's just completely random.
[01:59:16] And there's a pathway to get between the two areas, but you can't like hang out there.
[01:59:22] So the rats basically have to decide which side they want to be on.
[01:59:28] The stronger shock that they are prepared for or the random shock that's less.
[01:59:33] And the rats always pick the side that has the warning.
[01:59:38] So they know what's going on.
[01:59:39] Yeah.
[01:59:40] Yeah.
[01:59:41] Even though it's worse.
[01:59:42] Yeah.
[01:59:42] I just talked about this.
[01:59:44] I was talking to some army troops out in Hawaii, as a matter of fact.
[01:59:47] And talking about, you know, you mentioned earlier that the thing that you can take away from troops that they care about,
[01:59:54] money, more than money and rank is freedom.
[01:59:58] Contrary to that or I guess the other side of that is the best thing you can reward someone with is more freedom in the form of.
[02:00:06] And when you can do it at work, you can only give someone so much free time, but you say give them control over the exercise, give them control over the training, give them control over what time they get done, give them control over where they go.
[02:00:19] And more control people have the more satisfied they are, the better they're going to perform.
[02:00:25] And so that way you can use that, you can take control away from them and that's the worst punishment you can give them.
[02:00:31] The best reward you can give somebody is given freedom, give them control over their fate.
[02:00:37] I think that's the most powerful driver I think that even drives people generally more than money.
[02:00:42] So I talk about that with companies that they, you know, weigh weak, we can't afford to pay anyone.
[02:00:47] To say we can't afford to pay our employees more than X or we'll go bankrupt or in the military, I can't go and you know, I can't pay my corporal's more doesn't work that way.
[02:00:55] What do you do? How do you reward them? You give them freedom.
[02:00:59] You give them control over their destiny. That will drive people.
[02:01:03] And it's the best thing you can use.
[02:01:09] But that stress element, like it's almost even in GITZY have that if you compete in GITZY, if you don't know like when you're going to go on,
[02:01:16] you know, because it's like, oh, I'm so it's going right now. But then they're not calling your name and you're like, you get all stressed.
[02:01:21] But then if you know, oh, it's your time then you're like less stress.
[02:01:24] It's almost like if you're in the dark about something, you're just more stressed.
[02:01:27] So the more information you have about it, that's why people in the word, they're like asking all these questions like,
[02:01:32] I wasn't going to go. They just want to know how it's going to go, you know?
[02:01:35] So yeah, that makes sense. I feel that.
[02:01:37] Check out this dichotomy.
[02:01:39] A lot of people think dichotomy in my favorite word, but it is.
[02:01:42] Check out this dichotomy as the number of choices increases the autonomy control and liberation.
[02:01:48] This variety brings us is powerful and positive.
[02:01:52] But if the number of choices keeps growing negative effects start to appear as choices grow further,
[02:01:59] the negative escalate until we become overloaded at this point.
[02:02:03] Choice no longer liberates us. It might even be said to tear nice.
[02:02:08] So that's why discipline will give you freedom.
[02:02:12] And that's why giving someone, you know, if you have too many options, it can turn out to be a bad thing.
[02:02:19] There's a definite dichotomy there.
[02:02:23] Here's another, again, I'm jumping around a bit.
[02:02:26] A key point to remember is that all models, whether mental, physical, mathematical or
[02:02:31] mechanical, have blind spots when you choose a model you choose your blind spots.
[02:02:39] That's powerful. So whatever you're thinking, you're not necessarily, you're not going to be 100% right.
[02:02:45] There's going to be things that you don't see that you don't understand that you miss.
[02:02:49] What's critical is understand the models.
[02:02:52] Understand the one that you choose.
[02:02:54] And so what are the blind spots that I've just chosen?
[02:02:58] Why am I not going to see by using this?
[02:03:01] And whenever you can, if you can use multiple lenses, and we do that a lot when we're assessing people,
[02:03:07] I don't want just this one, this is an instrument because it's got all kinds of blind spots.
[02:03:12] So I pick another one that's going to close some of those blind spots because it covers those.
[02:03:17] And, you know, so I get a better picture of what you look like by using multiple lenses to look at you with.
[02:03:26] So I don't, I don't have just one. I give you this one task.
[02:03:30] I miss all this stuff over here.
[02:03:32] And by the way, if you don't have a high cognitive ability, when you see these two reports about someone that might have contrast to information,
[02:03:41] you won't be able to, this report doesn't make any sense.
[02:03:44] And you'll lean towards the one that makes the most sense to you that feels the vision that you've been looking for.
[02:03:50] Here's the thing that I just had to read.
[02:03:54] Catastrophic, when catastrophic leadership failures occur.
[02:03:58] It is sudden and causes a catastrophic change in the leaders ability to perform successfully.
[02:04:03] The leader will exhibit some or all of a characteristic, characteristic set of behaviors.
[02:04:09] And here's those behaviors.
[02:04:11] And this is to me, these are like red flags.
[02:04:14] These are things that if you're paying attention right now, and you're listening, you want to improve your leadership capabilities.
[02:04:19] Pay attention to these things.
[02:04:21] And when you notice yourself doing them, check yourself, detach, take a step back, and correct your trajectory.
[02:04:30] Because your trajectory is not good.
[02:04:32] Number one, not listening.
[02:04:35] That's number one, not listening.
[02:04:37] Over analyzing failure to make decisions, low quality decisions, emotional decisions, flip flops, short-term decisions and focus.
[02:04:46] Reactive decisions, defensiveness, rationalizing, self-satisfying, hedonism, denial, in-attentional blindness, fear-based decisions, anger-facilitated decisions, automatic decision-making and mental paralysis.
[02:05:06] So there's a list of things that you can identify about yourself when there's a stressful situation going on,
[02:05:13] and you start making a rational decision, or you start making an emotional decision, or you're not listening to anybody else anymore.
[02:05:19] Time to take a step back, detach, and get yourself, get your mind right, because it's not right to make decisions at that point.
[02:05:27] These are similar.
[02:05:32] List of behaviors that will get you thinking about how you behave in stressful situations.
[02:05:38] Aggression.
[02:05:40] Laws of humor, taking offense isn't not a great one.
[02:05:44] We take offense, right, and that's a sign that says, oh, you're stressed out, and you're not about to make a good decision.
[02:05:51] In my opinion, when you're taking offense, that's rooted to something that we call ego.
[02:05:57] It's going to be something that's brushing up against your ego.
[02:06:00] Here's another one, wanting to be right.
[02:06:04] Oh, that's also ego.
[02:06:06] Wanting the last word, that's also ego.
[02:06:10] Flooding with information to prove a point.
[02:06:14] That's ego.
[02:06:16] Holding a grudge, that's ego.
[02:06:19] I know that.
[02:06:21] That's ego.
[02:06:22] jealousy, that's ego.
[02:06:24] Playing poor me, sarcasm, blaming, being too nice.
[02:06:30] That's an interesting one.
[02:06:32] Being too nice, you're just going to, okay, yeah, I'll do it.
[02:06:35] Oh, you just broke.
[02:06:37] So there's a dichotomy, right?
[02:06:39] One of them is one of us, we're getting aggressive.
[02:06:41] The other one is I'm just cowering down.
[02:06:43] There's a little dichotomy there.
[02:06:45] If you're doing well, you'll be balanced.
[02:06:49] Here's echo's favorite.
[02:06:51] It's my, it's my personality.
[02:06:53] It's just the way I am.
[02:06:55] Don't lecture me.
[02:06:58] These are all just classic, just classic things that you do that should be signs that you're
[02:07:04] you're not doing well.
[02:07:08] Chronic stress is a constant drain on the leaders overall capacity.
[02:07:12] Accidentally leaving the car light on begins to drain the car battery.
[02:07:16] Here you do a great job of, you know, talking about the comfort zone.
[02:07:20] And we don't want to be in the comfort zone all the time.
[02:07:23] We want to be pushing out of it a little bit that that forces us to to step up our game.
[02:07:29] But if we spend too much time up there out of the comfort zone,
[02:07:32] we'll get burnout because we're having to be undergoing all the stress all the time.
[02:07:36] The other one I already talked about is rust out.
[02:07:38] And that's when you're, you're just, you're doing something that's too easy.
[02:07:42] It's not challenging. You're, you're so deep in your comfort zone.
[02:07:44] It's so easy for you that you don't care about anymore.
[02:07:48] The further the leader moves into the burnout zone, the faster you will burn out.
[02:07:52] His performance job satisfaction interpersonal relationship, motivation and health will begin to deteriorate.
[02:07:58] Dropping below the comfort zone takes the leader to into the rust out zone.
[02:08:01] There are the leader will experience boredom, loss of motivation and lowered sense of purpose.
[02:08:06] So those important things to look for with your troops.
[02:08:09] You see someone that's bored, not motivated.
[02:08:12] Cool. Put him in a leadership position. Let him step up.
[02:08:17] Stress is not just a nuisance designed to frustrate humans and shorten their lives.
[02:08:22] And this is again, I'm jumping through this book.
[02:08:24] Quite the opposite. The purpose of stress is to help people increase their odds of survival
[02:08:29] by providing quicker response time, more alertness and ability to focus more narrowly on the environment.
[02:08:35] The trick is to keep stress as an ally, not an enemy.
[02:08:41] So stress is not bad. It's not necessarily a battle time.
[02:08:45] It will make you better with, with some, as long as you get breaks from it.
[02:08:51] Yeah. And you can adapt to stress.
[02:08:56] So it's like, you know, if you, if you live waste and you're going to do curls, you know, you get so echo approves of this.
[02:09:05] Yeah. So you can, you can get so you're using 35 pounds and you're doing 10 reps.
[02:09:12] And if you just keep doing 10 reps or 35 pounds every day, you don't get better.
[02:09:19] What you have to do is stress yourself.
[02:09:23] So you have to increase the weight.
[02:09:28] You can increase the reps.
[02:09:31] Adapt to it. Then you increase again.
[02:09:35] And what, what your body's doing is adapt into that stress.
[02:09:39] A little at a time. So you keep it within a range that it can adapt to.
[02:09:43] And you'll keep getting stronger and stronger.
[02:09:46] Same with running. You don't go out and run 26 miles the first day.
[02:09:50] You can kind of build up to it. And you're, you're stressing the body.
[02:09:54] As you run longer distances or if you run hills or, you're running sprints.
[02:09:59] You do a series of things that stretch you to help you get so you can go farther.
[02:10:03] And you can go faster. And eventually you can do the 26 miles.
[02:10:08] But if you just run three miles every day, if the same pace, you've got to max out right there.
[02:10:14] And the 26 is just eat your lunch when you try.
[02:10:19] You know, this is, this is, when I was talking about me being, you know, having a positive attitude earlier, being an optimist.
[02:10:29] And I was thinking about this quote because I knew I was going to get to it.
[02:10:32] When Collins asked Stockdale, this is Admiral Stockdale who's a POW.
[02:10:37] When Collins asked Stockdale, which POWs didn't make it out, stockdale responded, that's easy.
[02:10:42] The optimists, the optimists were the prisoners who believed that believed and would say that
[02:10:48] the North Vietnamese were going to release the POWs by Christmas.
[02:10:52] When it didn't happen by Christmas, they would say it happened by Easter.
[02:10:56] Then Thanksgiving, eventually the optimists would die of a broken heart.
[02:11:00] The solution according to Stockdale is that you must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end.
[02:11:06] Which you can never afford to lose with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they may be.
[02:11:17] That's important right there.
[02:11:19] Yeah.
[02:11:21] We say in the 1980s, I worked at the Center for Army Leadership at 411 North Kansas, a subject matter expert on leadership and stress on the battlefield.
[02:11:32] Research indicated that people high in psychological hardiness differed from people with low psychological hardness in four primary ways.
[02:11:40] A stronger commitment to self and attitude of vigorousness toward the environment.
[02:11:46] A sense of meaningfulness and an internal sense of control.
[02:11:51] Continue research narrow these differences to three factors, commitment.
[02:11:56] The ability to feel deeply involved in life's activities.
[02:12:00] Control the belief that you can control or influence stressful events in your life and challenge the anticipation of change as an exciting challenge for further development.
[02:12:13] Yeah. Those are key.
[02:12:17] That challenge thing.
[02:12:18] Instead of looking at everything like, oh no, this is happening to me.
[02:12:22] And instead saying, oh, this is an opportunity for us.
[02:12:26] I had some client ask me the other day, well, what would you do?
[02:12:30] If your team got assigned the hardest job and how you can break the news to them?
[02:12:37] You know what I said, oh, we got assigned the hardest job. I'm going to walk in there and be like, hey guys, guess what?
[02:12:44] This company knows that there's only one team that can get this done.
[02:12:48] And they're saying it's going to take three months to get it done and guess what?
[02:12:52] We're going to get it done in two months.
[02:12:55] And it's going to take everything we've got, but we are going to crush this thing.
[02:12:59] And we're going to show not only where the only team that can do this, where the only team that can do absolutely anything.
[02:13:06] And everyone's like, oh, yeah, because that's the attitude you got to have.
[02:13:10] This isn't a challenge that we're going to shy away from.
[02:13:12] This is an opportunity for us to get after it.
[02:13:18] Most people who study resilience agree on a core set of common factors.
[02:13:22] Flexibility, adaptability, meaning value, determination, strength, and recovery.
[02:13:32] So talking about resilience. Those are some things to think about.
[02:13:35] That flexibility one isn't one that you might think of.
[02:13:38] It's a little counterintuitive to think, well, I'm resilient.
[02:13:41] So I just keep going the same direction.
[02:13:43] It's like, no, I actually am flexible and I'm going to adapt.
[02:13:45] Got to adapt.
[02:13:47] As opposed to burning yourself out, beating your head against the wall.
[02:13:53] You talk about this.
[02:13:54] This acronym you use here, stress resilient emotional intelligence.
[02:14:00] The ability to resist the negative influence of stress on the emotional aspects of decision-making,
[02:14:04] by flexing and adapting to sudden change.
[02:14:08] As the stress level goes up, particularly toward the extreme level,
[02:14:12] people lose their access to emotional intelligence.
[02:14:16] Oh, if you can't take a step back, take a breath,
[02:14:23] and get control your emotions you're going to have problems.
[02:14:26] There's no doubt about that.
[02:14:28] You have to learn how to breathe.
[02:14:30] Breathing is a big deal.
[02:14:32] Tactical breathing, or you inhale for four seconds, you pause,
[02:14:37] and you exhale for seconds.
[02:14:40] Very quickly, that will help calm you down.
[02:14:43] Sledge your heart, right back down.
[02:14:46] We used it with sniper training.
[02:14:49] When you're reaching out those distances like they do today,
[02:14:53] with a 50 caliber, you can retout and touch somebody two miles away.
[02:14:59] But the pressure of the pulse and your finger is enough to change
[02:15:03] that your directory to cause you to miss it.
[02:15:06] So it's low in your heart rate down.
[02:15:08] Causing it, be a little weaker, being very controlled,
[02:15:12] and squeezing it off.
[02:15:14] And you know, the Canadian guy that I don't remember whose name right now,
[02:15:17] I think he has the record of a kill, like two point two miles.
[02:15:23] That's a crazy shot right there.
[02:15:25] That's a long way.
[02:15:26] But why used to do that?
[02:15:29] Yeah, I always talk about the fact that it was always our goal
[02:15:33] to never sound excited on the radio.
[02:15:37] And in order to do that, you're going to have to control your breath
[02:15:40] when you get control your breath, and you control your voice
[02:15:43] that just calmed you down instead of a...
[02:15:45] I really need help over here.
[02:15:46] Just hey, we need two more guys down this hallway, please.
[02:15:50] That's a great to stay calm.
[02:15:53] You get in here to the seven best practices to prevent stress.
[02:16:00] And it said, a leader can get caught in ever accelerating
[02:16:05] downward spiral, and it starts with rising levels of stress.
[02:16:09] At first, the leader might think, I can power through this on tough.
[02:16:12] That's how I got to where I am.
[02:16:14] But as his stress levels begin to rise, he finds it more and more
[02:16:18] difficult to maintain the lifestyle that helps keep the stress manageable.
[02:16:22] The diet quickly turns unhealthy.
[02:16:24] There's no time or energy for exercise.
[02:16:26] No time for sleep or rest.
[02:16:28] No time for family or friends.
[02:16:30] His attitude turns negative and learning holds.
[02:16:34] A reinforcing loop emerges that sends the leader into a downward spiral
[02:16:38] like an airplane that has lost power in his out of the pilots control
[02:16:40] with little hope of recovery unless the leader can break the cycle
[02:16:44] and begin to climb again.
[02:16:46] And this is your... something that you call arsenal,
[02:16:50] and other acronym, the seven best practices, awareness,
[02:16:55] rest, support, exercise, nutrition, attitude, and learning.
[02:17:03] And you go through each one of these and talk about how some steps
[02:17:11] to take for awareness, dedicate time,
[02:17:14] to stepping outside yourself, observing your actions.
[02:17:17] And you go through the rest, you give great little sections of what to do to
[02:17:22] rest, force yourself to take breaks, include personal time each day.
[02:17:26] You go through support.
[02:17:28] What does support mean?
[02:17:29] Support is psychological, emotional, and physical people that help you
[02:17:35] in those categories.
[02:17:37] So significant other family, friends, colleagues, coaches, mentors,
[02:17:42] etc.
[02:17:43] And what can you do?
[02:17:44] Identify these people. And you get, again, you do that for each one of these for exercise.
[02:17:49] You talk about what, you know, how you start an exercise program.
[02:17:54] And I think you use a couple.
[02:17:56] You give one thing is, 60 days, go 60 days, do not miss an exercise session during the first 60 days,
[02:18:02] not even one.
[02:18:03] While some say new habits are created in 21 days,
[02:18:06] I find that for most people 60 days tends to firmly transform any new behavior and do a habit.
[02:18:12] So, and you obviously are a little bit of an exercise for that, because you still run an
[02:18:18] Iron Man?
[02:18:19] Yes.
[02:18:20] How'd you get into that?
[02:18:23] Well, you know, it's always been physical.
[02:18:28] And about 10 years or so ago, I had my other son and law go do a triathlon.
[02:18:37] And he got with Eric and I, and we got to do this.
[02:18:42] This is a lot of fun.
[02:18:43] So, how old do you right now?
[02:18:45] 72.
[02:18:46] So, at 62, you decided it was a good time to start triathlon.
[02:18:49] Got it, okay?
[02:18:51] Well, then, you know, got into that.
[02:18:55] And then, you know, triathlons are okay, but either, you know, Iron Man,
[02:19:00] the distances are considerably, you know, fathers, so I got into that.
[02:19:06] And, you know, it was pretty cool.
[02:19:08] I mean, it's a tough day.
[02:19:13] Yeah, and especially at 62, there's one last time you did one.
[02:19:17] A year ago?
[02:19:20] Less than a year.
[02:19:21] I mean, this year.
[02:19:22] Okay.
[02:19:23] One this year.
[02:19:24] You know, may I start back again?
[02:19:26] Are you like ranked in the world?
[02:19:29] I wasn't till, I think, last year.
[02:19:33] You have to do a certain number of year.
[02:19:36] And then, then you can total up points and they rank you.
[02:19:40] So, you know, I think my last ranking was
[02:19:45] fifth in the US, 15th in the world in my age.
[02:19:50] So, you definitely recommend exercise.
[02:19:53] Yeah, apparently.
[02:19:54] I talk about nutrition, you know, eating the right stuff.
[02:20:00] This is all stuff that we know, but we don't want to do.
[02:20:04] You talk about attitude, engage in activities that build yourself confidence
[02:20:09] and self-esteem.
[02:20:10] You get to smile, see the glass is being half full.
[02:20:15] Talk directly to the person you are unhappy with, not to your coworkers about that person.
[02:20:20] Become a team player, ask fellow team members what you can do to help them.
[02:20:24] That's a good attitude to just men.
[02:20:26] And the last one you've got is lifelong learning.
[02:20:28] And again, I'm a reason for these things right now.
[02:20:30] And that's why people need to buy the books so that they can get the men use themselves and read through.
[02:20:36] Life long learning.
[02:20:38] This is just such an important thing.
[02:20:41] Set daily monthly quarterly and annually annual learning goals.
[02:20:45] For example, read two books monthly or improve a foreign language skill over the course of year.
[02:20:50] Spend time with others who like to learn.
[02:20:52] Spend time with someone you consider intelligent.
[02:20:54] Get out of your comfort zone.
[02:20:55] Learn something you've always wanted to learn.
[02:20:57] Learn to learn the key putting off exercise all parts of your brain by choosing a variety of learning goals.
[02:21:04] So those are that's your that's your arsenal approach to controlling stress awareness,
[02:21:12] rest support exercise nutrition attitude and learning.
[02:21:18] Here's the takeaway on arsenal.
[02:21:20] These are kniser cool.
[02:21:22] An unaware brain is a surprised brain.
[02:21:25] A tired brain is a grumpy brain and unsupported brain is a sad brain.
[02:21:30] An unfit brain is a slow brain.
[02:21:32] A hungry brain is a distracted brain.
[02:21:35] A negative brain is an angry brain.
[02:21:37] An unused brain is a forgetful brain.
[02:21:44] Anything on missing on arsenal.
[02:21:46] Now, let's get I mean we have an actual assessment that you can take online.
[02:21:51] It shows you where you are.
[02:21:55] I mean we use it quite a bit with our clients.
[02:21:59] Stress is always an issue out there.
[02:22:01] So if we can help them find a way to to bring the stress down.
[02:22:04] They'll perform better, particularly as a leader.
[02:22:07] I'm going to wrap up with this book here.
[02:22:10] Training leaders is similar to training parachutes.
[02:22:13] You have to train them to jump before pushing them out the door.
[02:22:18] And then you say this close and out this book.
[02:22:21] And preparing for the future, we should keep in mind the old native American analogy that describes the past, present, and future as a log burning in a fire.
[02:22:29] The part of the log that has burned into ash is yesterday.
[02:22:33] The part that is burning is today.
[02:22:35] And the part that will burn soon is tomorrow.
[02:22:38] We are the fire.
[02:22:39] We can only live today and what we do today.
[02:22:43] Determines whether our fire will still be burning tomorrow.
[02:22:47] Well, that wraps up this book.
[02:22:55] And again, I mean I've breezed through this thing.
[02:22:57] There were some points that I definitely wanted to talk about and let people know about the book is called the stress effect by Henry L Thompson.
[02:23:06] And it's available on Amazon.
[02:23:13] What else, you know, we've covered a ton.
[02:23:17] We've merged a bunch of podcasts here.
[02:23:22] What else do we need to know about what you've got going on?
[02:23:26] What about high performance systems, HPS, YS, dot com.
[02:23:31] That's your company.
[02:23:32] And this is what you do.
[02:23:34] Yeah.
[02:23:35] That's what we do.
[02:23:36] We work with leaders around the world.
[02:23:39] We do a lot of work helping them improve their performance.
[02:23:42] We look at their cognitive ability.
[02:23:45] We can measure that.
[02:23:46] Then we can work with you to make sure you're getting the most out of it.
[02:23:51] We work with manufacturing and building those high performance work teams.
[02:23:55] So, well, I go when you were talking about giving people control.
[02:23:59] If you take a high performance work team and a manufacturing plan and say,
[02:24:05] Okay, you guys can start making decisions.
[02:24:08] So, you can even decide that echo Charles gets tomorrow off because he's got something he has to do.
[02:24:17] And Eric is going to come in and work his shift so he can go do it.
[02:24:22] And you don't have to come to me.
[02:24:24] The supervisor to ask permission to do that.
[02:24:26] You guys are already authorized to do all kinds of things like that.
[02:24:29] If it's going to make the team perform better, you guys do it.
[02:24:33] So, you run yourself.
[02:24:35] You take care of yourself.
[02:24:36] And I'm available.
[02:24:38] If you need to ask me questions or maybe some resources you don't have, then let me know.
[02:24:44] I'll go find your resources for you.
[02:24:47] So, we do a lot of work like that.
[02:24:49] We do a lot with stress management.
[02:24:51] We do a lot with decision making on distress.
[02:24:54] So, nuclear operators that are making decisions about whether or not the plan is going to melt down.
[02:24:59] Because sometimes the stress gets really high in the control room when they have an incident.
[02:25:05] So, I'm teaching them how to get control of the stress and not lock up.
[02:25:10] Law enforcement.
[02:25:13] For the most part, I mean, the law enforcement has a different approach to dealing with bad guys than the military does.
[02:25:27] I mean, a law enforcement swat team has a different approach when they go into a realm.
[02:25:33] When they kick a door down and go in, it's not like how a special ops team seal team come through that door.
[02:25:39] When you go through, you're going to take out everything in there.
[02:25:44] When the police want team goes through, there's a bad guy in there they want.
[02:25:49] And they're not going to take out everybody that's in the room necessarily.
[02:25:52] So, they, it's a very different approach going in, but it's very stressful.
[02:25:56] And there's things that they can do.
[02:25:58] And things they need to understand about what they can do when a stress level goes up.
[02:26:02] They're going to do to their decisions.
[02:26:05] So, we work with them on that.
[02:26:06] We can train them firefighters, same thing, EMTs.
[02:26:10] So, we do a lot of work like that.
[02:26:12] We're also working with vats, vet organizations.
[02:26:16] So, we have this thing going on.
[02:26:19] Twenty-two push-ups.
[02:26:20] Because we have 22 vats a day committing suicide.
[02:26:25] So, the 22 push-ups is a awareness thing.
[02:26:28] So, we get that all over social media of people doing push-ups.
[02:26:33] You know, you had to something earlier about, you know, echo which also probably got a knockout
[02:26:38] Twenty-two for us.
[02:26:39] The video.
[02:26:40] So, we can post it not there tomorrow.
[02:26:42] So, you know, we had the challenge goings.
[02:26:46] And we have a group of people around the country that have some of our coins.
[02:26:51] And if they run into a vet, they think, you know, maybe on the edge.
[02:26:57] And they give him a coin.
[02:26:58] It says, welcome home.
[02:26:59] Thank you for the service all that kind of stuff.
[02:27:02] And they reach out to him.
[02:27:04] Sometimes, all you have to do is smile at somebody.
[02:27:07] There's a person out there today that is all a mission in their life before the days are.
[02:27:14] And very often, they set up a condition.
[02:27:18] I'm going to ride the bus to this place where I'm going to terminate myself.
[02:27:22] If nobody speaks to me, if nobody smiles at me,
[02:27:26] nobody recognizes my presence between now and the time I get to this place,
[02:27:31] I'm going to take my life.
[02:27:33] But if I get some kind of interaction from somebody, I want to do it.
[02:27:38] And they get on the bus.
[02:27:41] They go, nobody acknowledges them.
[02:27:45] And they commit suicide.
[02:27:47] Just reaching out, just talking to someone.
[02:27:50] Sometimes, can turn them around and all of a sudden they don't do it.
[02:27:54] You can take them off of that list of 22.
[02:27:57] So we do that.
[02:27:59] Is there a website to go for that?
[02:28:02] Is that like a non-profit or?
[02:28:04] Yeah, there's a mission 22.
[02:28:06] Okay.
[02:28:07] Their website.
[02:28:08] On our website, we put on our stress effect website.
[02:28:13] We put things you can do to recognize that's not just that.
[02:28:19] But firefighters, police, you know,
[02:28:22] some of those other groups that are doing it.
[02:28:25] But particularly the vets, particularly,
[02:28:29] it's not just the older vets, but sometimes it's easier to see and them.
[02:28:34] But if you watch, you can see people that are not acting quite right.
[02:28:38] And they may have on there their hat.
[02:28:42] Now, you can see they've been in Afghanistan, wherever they are.
[02:28:46] And you need to talk to them.
[02:28:48] You had one person on one of your podcast very recently who is a suicide survivor.
[02:29:01] The person attempted suicide and somebody, you know,
[02:29:06] just snatched her up and got her out.
[02:29:08] And she'd do an all kinds of things that she wouldn't have done.
[02:29:12] No doubt about it.
[02:29:13] No, so everybody has a purpose.
[02:29:17] There's a reason that you survived as long as you have.
[02:29:20] And to go out and terminate yourself.
[02:29:23] I mean, all of a sudden, all those things don't happen.
[02:29:26] I mean, you might be the person that saves a lot of other lives
[02:29:30] if you stick around.
[02:29:33] And I don't think we as a nation do very well.
[02:29:37] Taking care of the vets.
[02:29:39] Do end the transitions.
[02:29:41] And I know a lot of the vets who do take their own lives
[02:29:45] or, you know, they're not in the VA program.
[02:29:49] They've just trying to do things on their own.
[02:29:51] And, you know, they get night down with a spiral.
[02:29:54] But if we see one, we talk to them.
[02:29:57] And that's amazing.
[02:29:59] Some of the stories I'm getting back from some of the people that's kind of
[02:30:04] a join me in this program, women who are out walking or running.
[02:30:10] And they'll see a guy with his veteran hat on or something.
[02:30:14] That clues them in.
[02:30:16] And they just talked to them.
[02:30:18] And the guys just turn around.
[02:30:21] I mean, all of them don't.
[02:30:23] But, you know, as military people, I think, you know,
[02:30:27] we have an obligation.
[02:30:29] We have an accountability.
[02:30:30] You know, we'll take care of real people.
[02:30:32] So, anyway, we do think a lot of things like that.
[02:30:36] Well, that's, I mean, that's awesome.
[02:30:38] That you already served your country.
[02:30:41] You know, in so many other ways and continue to serve the vets.
[02:30:47] And I don't know, do you have any other final thoughts?
[02:30:51] I really appreciate the opportunity to come, you know,
[02:30:55] talk about some of the things that went on in song and some of the
[02:30:59] leadership and other topics that we got on today.
[02:31:02] I appreciate you giving me that opportunity.
[02:31:04] You guys have been great.
[02:31:06] Great questions.
[02:31:07] I've been a fine day.
[02:31:09] I have a question.
[02:31:12] What does make either?
[02:31:14] You said that a few times.
[02:31:15] Making use of snake eater.
[02:31:17] Special forces.
[02:31:18] It's like a term.
[02:31:19] It's like a term for like a special forces guy.
[02:31:23] They'll say to him, you'll say, like, oh, that guy's a snake eater.
[02:31:26] You're kind of saying it in the context like it was bad almost.
[02:31:30] Like, from who was saying it in your stories.
[02:31:33] The competition.
[02:31:34] Oh, yes.
[02:31:35] I'm a ranger and you're special forces.
[02:31:38] Yeah, yeah.
[02:31:39] So I better than you.
[02:31:41] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:31:42] So when I call you a snake eater, it's bad.
[02:31:44] Yeah.
[02:31:45] You know, when I call myself one, it's good.
[02:31:47] Yeah, yeah.
[02:31:48] Cool.
[02:31:49] Right on.
[02:31:50] Right on.
[02:31:51] Thank you.
[02:31:52] Okay.
[02:31:53] Well, you know, thanks to Eric for getting you out here.
[02:31:57] And I'm telling you, yeah, this is just a total honor for me to be able to sit here.
[02:32:03] And hear your stories and pick your brain.
[02:32:06] And so thank you for coming on and sharing everything with us.
[02:32:11] And, you know, more important.
[02:32:13] And I think it's pretty obvious.
[02:32:16] Thank you for your service.
[02:32:17] And thank you when I hear your stories.
[02:32:21] And I think about the times that you thought you would not come back and you went anyway.
[02:32:29] And you did that for me and for my kids and for our country.
[02:32:36] And I just wanted to say thank you.
[02:32:38] And it's been an honor to talk to you.
[02:32:40] And I can't wait to hear feedback from people.
[02:32:43] And I'm sure they'll have so many questions that I'll have to drag you out here again at some point.
[02:32:48] I appreciate your service and thank you for that.
[02:32:51] And all the things that you've done and you're doing for the vats.
[02:32:54] I mean, people listen to the use of podcasts.
[02:32:57] Listen to what you guys say and it makes a difference.
[02:33:00] And you know, you just don't realize when you help most of the people that you help.
[02:33:09] Because you don't know where they were when they listened to your podcast or listen to you talk.
[02:33:15] But you're impacting people all over.
[02:33:18] And you know, I'm glad I could come in and just hang out with you guys.
[02:33:24] And watch how you do this because you really make an impact.
[02:33:29] Well, appreciate it.
[02:33:30] The door is always open to this podcast room.
[02:33:32] The microphone will be waiting for you anytime you want to come back.
[02:33:35] And I'm sure that the amount of people will hear what you've had to say.
[02:33:40] And see what you've been through and you're going to help infinitely more people.
[02:33:44] And it's so appreciated again, not just for what you've done in the past.
[02:33:49] But for what you're still doing now.
[02:33:50] So thank you.
[02:33:51] Thank you.
[02:33:52] Thank you, echo.
[02:33:54] So once again, Dick Thompson has left the building.
[02:34:00] And once again, I cannot even get my mind around.
[02:34:05] What he's done and what he has learned and what he is passing on in these lessons.
[02:34:13] Because really there's no better way to learn and there's no better teacher than
[02:34:21] learning from those who have gone before us.
[02:34:26] Who have tested the limits of human capacity for performance and leadership and decision making.
[02:34:36] And here we are.
[02:34:38] We get to sit here.
[02:34:39] We have to actually sit here and absorb the knowledge of these great men.
[02:34:46] Who paid dearly for this knowledge.
[02:34:51] And as we know, many of their comrades paid with their very lives.
[02:35:00] So let us never forget that.
[02:35:05] That for every lesson there was blood spilled for every story.
[02:35:12] There is a man who did not return.
[02:35:17] So value.
[02:35:21] These lessons, lessons that we can apply to our lives, to our family, to our businesses, to our communities.
[02:35:31] Everything we do we can apply, what we're learning here, don't squander these lessons.
[02:35:39] We can do the attention to them.
[02:35:43] Be aware.
[02:35:44] We talk a lot about awareness.
[02:35:46] Be aware of your own shortfalls.
[02:35:51] And then apply these lessons.
[02:35:52] That's what you have to actually apply them.
[02:35:55] You can't sit back and listen to them.
[02:35:58] You're going to actually apply them.
[02:36:03] So echo.
[02:36:06] We are all looking to learn.
[02:36:09] We are all looking to somehow make up for our own shortfalls.
[02:36:16] And apply things to our lives.
[02:36:19] That will make us better.
[02:36:22] Do you know of anything?
[02:36:25] Softball coming at you.
[02:36:27] Do you know of anything?
[02:36:29] That broadly speaking can make our lives better.
[02:36:32] Probably and narrowly.
[02:36:37] That would be.
[02:36:38] Okay.
[02:36:39] Now is it possible that you're just a person that's just into it and so you're biased.
[02:36:45] Because you like to do it.
[02:36:46] Now you think everyone could gain from it and benefit from it, even though that could be wrong.
[02:36:50] Is that a possibility?
[02:36:51] Yes.
[02:36:52] That's a possibility.
[02:36:53] Well, actually I was going to say that's actually not possible.
[02:36:55] Yeah.
[02:36:56] Well, I'm more saying yes to the bias part of it.
[02:36:59] Okay.
[02:37:03] You are biased.
[02:37:04] But even if you're biased, then that doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong.
[02:37:07] I would tell you this.
[02:37:08] You're biased.
[02:37:09] You're biased in favor of your jutsu.
[02:37:12] And that doesn't affect the outcome of someone starting to jutsu and really gaining a ton from it.
[02:37:20] In making their life better.
[02:37:21] Yes.
[02:37:22] Across the board.
[02:37:23] It's kind of like, you know how.
[02:37:26] Like the sun. If I say, hey, the sun is warm on my face today.
[02:37:31] And I really like that.
[02:37:33] Okay.
[02:37:34] And I'm biased towards the sun.
[02:37:36] Okay.
[02:37:36] What if someone doesn't like that?
[02:37:37] It's still warm on their face.
[02:37:38] Seems like.
[02:37:39] Okay.
[02:37:40] Let's say not only that they didn't know.
[02:37:42] No, no, Brad, that was a perfect analogy.
[02:37:44] Yeah.
[02:37:44] Actually, that was pretty bad.
[02:37:45] But nonetheless, short notice.
[02:37:47] That's sort of how it goes.
[02:37:48] Hey, what's actually.
[02:37:50] Factually.
[02:37:51] Actually, you just do will improve your life.
[02:37:53] Yes.
[02:37:54] Yeah.
[02:37:56] I guess that is possible.
[02:37:57] Yes.
[02:37:58] And I don't mean do jutsu wrong.
[02:37:59] I mean approach.
[02:38:00] Yeah.
[02:38:01] Jutsu wrong.
[02:38:02] So like, okay.
[02:38:03] So you mentioned before how.
[02:38:05] How the person, like a person in the beginning.
[02:38:09] You, your confidence go like can go backwards.
[02:38:13] One step because you're like, oh, like how many people know this.
[02:38:16] And I didn't even realize it.
[02:38:18] So you're kind of apprehensive.
[02:38:19] Just in general.
[02:38:21] That is yes.
[02:38:22] If you approach it correctly, in my opinion, because if you approach it wrong,
[02:38:26] you're kind of like, oh, I know a choke.
[02:38:29] No, I know arm lock.
[02:38:31] Now I'm better than everybody.
[02:38:32] You know, kind of thing.
[02:38:33] That's the reality of Jutsu.
[02:38:35] You won't feel that way because you'll get before you choke.
[02:38:37] You learn a choke, but then you get choke and our mocked and
[02:38:40] come here at 15 times in one day.
[02:38:42] So you don't feel more confident out of the date.
[02:38:45] I didn't know.
[02:38:47] Yeah.
[02:38:48] But then he can't know.
[02:38:49] You know what?
[02:38:50] A small part of me did did.
[02:38:51] Only if I knew the other.
[02:38:53] Yes.
[02:38:54] It told me was.
[02:38:55] But on top of it, I would know, you know, I know who in my little,
[02:38:59] when you say in my circles, like I knew who didn't train and who did,
[02:39:03] just like we all do, you know.
[02:39:04] I mean, strangers, I'd always be like, man, like,
[02:39:07] you know what I'm going to watch out.
[02:39:09] Yeah, just like, you know how like sometimes you're like,
[02:39:11] you don't know if like I has a weapon or something like that.
[02:39:13] That feeling, it's that feeling, you know,
[02:39:15] but a little bit worse because
[02:39:17] if a guy's a web being kind of runaway,
[02:39:19] what a guy's going to, kind of, get your corpse
[02:39:20] you want o'er, all the way around and form a command,
[02:39:22] like you're sitting here and have to run away.
[02:39:23] No, look what?
[02:39:23] Well, it's like, there is an exception,
[02:39:25] somebody.
[02:39:25] Is that sat in a car store like anything we got
[02:39:28] or just said it.
[02:39:29] Yeah.
[02:39:29] It's not like you can't get away with it,
[02:39:32] it gets your lifetimes.
[02:39:34] Right?
[02:39:37] Right?
[02:39:37] And the, I had thisись to pick up.
[02:39:38] He's a bunch of people are put around and they're not
[02:39:38] put in there.
[02:39:40] So, Human Power was like a gun.
[02:39:43] Really?
[02:39:44] He's a bunch of people with respect or momentum.
[02:39:45] Have you lived in the rural room?
[02:39:46] Like in the 1400's wife,
[02:39:47] it's as you have to get around the other person's legs.
[02:39:49] Yeah. That's the whole, that's what you got to do.
[02:39:51] You think, oh, how long is that going to take?
[02:39:53] Four seconds, three seconds, maybe even two seconds,
[02:39:56] whatever, I'll get around their legs.
[02:39:58] And then you realize it can take years and years and years
[02:40:00] of trying to get past one person's guard.
[02:40:02] If not never, sometimes.
[02:40:04] Yeah.
[02:40:05] And that's a crazy thing.
[02:40:06] Very crazy.
[02:40:07] It was, I think it was you at the master,
[02:40:10] where I was like, we're talking about that.
[02:40:12] I forget if you were saying it or I was saying it,
[02:40:14] I think you were saying it.
[02:40:15] And I was like, maybe, I don't know,
[02:40:17] nonetheless, I was like,
[02:40:18] because technically getting past someone's guard
[02:40:19] is just getting past your legs, just like what you said.
[02:40:21] And you can use this whole room.
[02:40:23] I don't care if you walk out the door and sneak back in the back door.
[02:40:27] You still can't do it.
[02:40:28] And like you can, like I was,
[02:40:30] and I did a little demonstration where I'd be like,
[02:40:33] okay, this is like, all I got to do is get past your legs.
[02:40:35] Guard, no guard, I just got to get past your legs, right?
[02:40:37] So I backed way up and I started like walking around,
[02:40:40] like you do this like turn.
[02:40:41] And it just, yeah, it's crazy.
[02:40:43] I'll just, how impossible that can kind of seem, you know?
[02:40:47] But that's the jujitsu, you know?
[02:40:48] And that's one tiny little sliver of an aspect of it.
[02:40:52] It's just passing the guard.
[02:40:53] You know, yes, it goes deep.
[02:40:57] No, nonetheless, but yes, if you approach it correctly,
[02:41:01] I have no doubt in my mind.
[02:41:02] I don't know under any circumstance where it would
[02:41:06] be an improvement in your life, net, net.
[02:41:10] Yeah, cannot think of one.
[02:41:11] So overall we're saying, do jujitsu.
[02:41:14] Yes, sir.
[02:41:15] And once we decide to do jujitsu, which we just decided,
[02:41:17] now we need to get a G.
[02:41:19] Yes, we get an origin G from originmain.com.
[02:41:23] You get a lot of stuff from there, but yes,
[02:41:25] you get your G from there many different options.
[02:41:29] Speaking of G's.
[02:41:30] I've been noticing people getting blue belt,
[02:41:34] winning tournaments, saying, hey, I joined jujitsu
[02:41:39] because of Joko.
[02:41:40] Yeah, because of this.
[02:41:41] Well, yeah.
[02:41:42] So there's a camp this year.
[02:41:46] There was people that were like, I'm a Joko Blue belt.
[02:41:49] Right.
[02:41:49] And I was like, what is that?
[02:41:50] And they say, I started training because the podcast
[02:41:52] and I was like, oh, awesome.
[02:41:54] And I've met, I think, two Joko Purple belts.
[02:41:58] Oh, well, the podcast has only been out for four years.
[02:42:02] Fourish, yeah.
[02:42:04] Yeah, we're coming up on four years.
[02:42:05] So I mean, someone out of the gate was like, OK, I'm getting it.
[02:42:08] Because you got, you know, it takes about four years to get a purple belt.
[02:42:10] If you're like training hard, right?
[02:42:12] This is no slack.
[02:42:13] Someone that just jumps in.
[02:42:15] So I think I've met two like Joko Purple belts.
[02:42:21] So legit.
[02:42:22] But yeah, that's super cool.
[02:42:23] Yeah.
[02:42:24] So so you're not alone.
[02:42:26] Don't feel like you ever feel like I know
[02:42:29] one's really actually doing that.
[02:42:31] So I'm not doing it.
[02:42:32] Yeah.
[02:42:33] People are absolutely doing it.
[02:42:34] Yeah, yes.
[02:42:35] 100%.
[02:42:36] My wife just wasn't England.
[02:42:39] She delivered a friend.
[02:42:40] She delivered an origingie to England for her friends,
[02:42:49] husband, Anthony.
[02:42:52] He's, he's, you know, he's like, whatever.
[02:42:55] 50, he's like my age 40, 852, something like that.
[02:43:00] Obsessed with the Jiu Jitsu.
[02:43:01] He's been training for six months.
[02:43:03] Jack, a white belt.
[02:43:04] He's like in the game, right?
[02:43:06] Yeah.
[02:43:07] At some point, you commit.
[02:43:08] You say you know what I'm going to do this.
[02:43:09] Yeah.
[02:43:10] Just do it.
[02:43:11] Yeah.
[02:43:12] Just do it.
[02:43:13] This is how you know you and we haven't used the expression.
[02:43:15] You just to bug recently.
[02:43:16] But this is how you kind of know when you're sort of trying to figure out moves
[02:43:21] when you're like, embed or driving or this kind of stuff.
[02:43:25] What is like constantly rolling in your mind?
[02:43:27] It might be this a good feeling.
[02:43:28] Yeah.
[02:43:29] Because it does translate when you go back in, like you work it out.
[02:43:31] It's good, man.
[02:43:33] But yes, people are in the game.
[02:43:36] So yeah, and you're going to train G.
[02:43:39] So get a Jiu Jitsu G from origin main.com.
[02:43:42] Get a rash guard so you can train no G, which is also important.
[02:43:46] Very important.
[02:43:47] As Echo would say, I would just say important.
[02:43:51] But you would say important.
[02:43:52] I don't hear the difference.
[02:43:54] Yeah.
[02:43:55] I don't hear anything.
[02:43:56] And then the problem is, the problem is you're going to want to represent.
[02:44:03] Off the mats.
[02:44:04] Off the mats.
[02:44:05] Right?
[02:44:06] And we can go into the whole thing about how you can't wear a G to the club.
[02:44:09] Right?
[02:44:10] Yes.
[02:44:11] You can't wear a G to the grocery store.
[02:44:13] Jiu Jitsu G.
[02:44:14] Now you can get away with G pants.
[02:44:15] Let's face it.
[02:44:16] Let's face it.
[02:44:17] I think most of us have been into a grocery store in G pants.
[02:44:21] I know I have.
[02:44:22] Especially the black ones.
[02:44:23] The orange and black ones.
[02:44:24] They could look kind of dope.
[02:44:25] You could probably go to a club in the origin black.
[02:44:27] You could put it off.
[02:44:28] You could pull it off.
[02:44:29] What kind of level?
[02:44:30] What kind of fashion?
[02:44:31] You know you're a fashion guy.
[02:44:32] Where does that fit into the fashion world?
[02:44:34] Like what would you wear with black G pants to a club to a, let's say a bar.
[02:44:41] You're going to a bar.
[02:44:42] You put on the G pants and you just what are you using wearing a t-shirt.
[02:44:45] There's an orange and t-shirt.
[02:44:46] Well, that's not a death court t-shirt.
[02:44:49] Let's clarify.
[02:44:51] First off, I'm not a fashion person.
[02:44:53] But if I was, I would say there is no fashionable.
[02:44:57] Unless you're going to extreme new age fashion, which I can think.
[02:45:01] Then yeah, you could wear it.
[02:45:03] You know, it's funny.
[02:45:04] You ever heard of this store called Patagonia.
[02:45:08] It made out of a wearer and stuff.
[02:45:11] Oh, yeah.
[02:45:12] Outdoor clothing, right?
[02:45:13] Well, Patagonia used to have pants.
[02:45:15] They maybe they still do.
[02:45:16] That were called G pants.
[02:45:19] That's what they were called.
[02:45:20] They probably still have.
[02:45:21] So maybe, you know, they're over there wearing their G pants out.
[02:45:26] Maybe we just get the game and represent even harder.
[02:45:30] But are they called?
[02:45:31] Yes, they're called G pants.
[02:45:32] Or they called G-Pants.
[02:45:33] Or they called G-I-Pants.
[02:45:34] They're called G-Pants.
[02:45:36] They're, they're, when you, I remember back in the day I would read the little description.
[02:45:41] And it would say, you know, the G-Pants is based on the loose fitting martial arts.
[02:45:47] Oh, yeah.
[02:45:48] Yeah, and I say that in a little description.
[02:45:50] Yeah, that's okay.
[02:45:51] So yeah.
[02:45:52] All right.
[02:45:53] Well, yeah.
[02:45:54] I mean, then it's kind of like whatever you day.
[02:45:55] I mean, it wouldn't be a violation overall.
[02:45:57] Especially if there were the black ones.
[02:45:59] So if you were the white, maybe the kind of where people will look like if you were.
[02:46:03] Oh, yeah, yeah, you know, you couldn't wear white.
[02:46:05] No.
[02:46:06] He pants out for just no reason.
[02:46:07] But the black, you could kind of be a hard one.
[02:46:09] Pull off, yes, sir.
[02:46:10] Yeah.
[02:46:11] So anyways.
[02:46:12] But if you don't want to wear your G-Pants, and you still want to represent, that's fine.
[02:46:16] You can get a pair of origin jeans, which are also made in America.
[02:46:20] The little brass rivets are made in America.
[02:46:24] The zipper is made in America.
[02:46:25] The thread is made in America.
[02:46:27] And they're sewn by craftsmen, crafts women up in Maine.
[02:46:34] That's what they're made.
[02:46:37] So everything is there.
[02:46:38] There's that there as American as American can be.
[02:46:42] That's what those jeans are.
[02:46:44] When you put them on, you are embracing America through its core.
[02:46:50] And you're rebuilding America.
[02:46:52] Because you got to remember all those, none of those people had jobs.
[02:46:55] None of those people at origin had jobs five years ago, three years ago, two years ago.
[02:47:01] Because all the jobs had been taken overseas.
[02:47:04] We're bringing them back.
[02:47:06] So embrace America and embrace origin jeans.
[02:47:15] Two kinds.
[02:47:16] There's the heavy, there's the factory jeans.
[02:47:19] What we call those are the OG, the original ones.
[02:47:23] And then there's the Delta 68, which are mine.
[02:47:28] And I signature jeans.
[02:47:31] But they don't say Jocquawanum.
[02:47:33] Because that's not, no, they say Delta 68,
[02:47:36] named after my four fathers in the SEAL teams in Vietnam.
[02:47:39] That wore jeans into the May Kong Delta to hunt down the enemy.
[02:47:45] And they did it because they were more durable.
[02:47:48] They lasted longer.
[02:47:49] They were quiet.
[02:47:50] So that's what we did.
[02:47:51] We brought them back.
[02:47:53] Delta 68.
[02:47:54] Represent.
[02:47:55] Yep.
[02:47:56] Good on you.
[02:47:57] Get some.
[02:47:58] What else?
[02:47:59] Well.
[02:48:00] From origin, well.
[02:48:02] Supplements, of course, keeping us in the game.
[02:48:06] So, you know, 50 years old, your friends, your wife's friends, husband.
[02:48:11] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[02:48:12] What was the name again?
[02:48:13] Anthony.
[02:48:14] Anthony.
[02:48:15] 50.
[02:48:16] We'll just say 50.
[02:48:17] Around 50.
[02:48:18] So, cause people will ask,
[02:48:19] Like, am I too old to start you?
[02:48:21] No, you're 40.
[02:48:22] You're not.
[02:48:23] Yeah, negative.
[02:48:24] I know guy 41 and started and it's kind of a,
[02:48:28] a little bit of a handful.
[02:48:30] They do it 41, which, you know, that's not terribly old.
[02:48:34] But it's not terribly old.
[02:48:35] Well, no, actually what surprised me, it's just a handful to deal with.
[02:48:37] That means, because there are some people that,
[02:48:39] whether they're 20 or whether they're 40,
[02:48:41] they just have a little something.
[02:48:43] Yeah.
[02:48:44] They have a little, they have a little,
[02:48:45] some skills, some inherent good instincts.
[02:48:48] There's some inherent strengths.
[02:48:50] Flexibility.
[02:48:52] I got something.
[02:48:53] Yes, it's.
[02:48:55] It's.
[02:48:56] The blend is where everybody in it.
[02:48:58] You can even train hard.
[02:48:59] But if you do, you do have to mine these things.
[02:49:02] Like, okay, I'm not 20 years old anymore.
[02:49:05] I'm 50 years old now.
[02:49:07] So, you got to, you do have to mine those things.
[02:49:09] Yeah.
[02:49:09] Not nothing.
[02:49:10] Yeah.
[02:49:10] So, if you're going death matches eight rounds, six minutes.
[02:49:15] Okay, that's again, that's not nothing there either.
[02:49:17] So, but here, good news.
[02:49:19] Join Warfare, Crill Oil.
[02:49:21] These things will keep you deep in the game.
[02:49:24] Take for me.
[02:49:25] I can turn up the workout.
[02:49:27] Personal, I'm speaking for myself.
[02:49:29] I'm no anomaly.
[02:49:31] I can go deep.
[02:49:33] Hardcore on a workout week after week.
[02:49:35] After week.
[02:49:35] Differentes is if I do take joint warfare,
[02:49:37] cruel oil and if I don't take joint warfare, cruel oil,
[02:49:40] I won't be able to go.
[02:49:41] If I don't.
[02:49:42] If I do, I can't.
[02:49:44] This applies to everybody.
[02:49:46] Like I said.
[02:49:47] So, that question is sir.
[02:49:49] Answer.
[02:49:50] Yes.
[02:49:51] And if you want to make it a little easier to maintain,
[02:49:56] then just get the subscription.
[02:49:59] You have the subscription now.
[02:50:00] So, that way you can just, here comes joint warfare.
[02:50:02] Once a month, you get your bottle.
[02:50:04] There you go.
[02:50:05] You start to get your krill oil.
[02:50:06] You get it.
[02:50:07] And you say, actually save money.
[02:50:08] So, check out the subscriptions there on,
[02:50:12] originmain.com.
[02:50:14] And don't forget about moke, which is additional protein.
[02:50:18] Which you also need.
[02:50:19] If you're, if you're lifting,
[02:50:21] if you're training, if you're running,
[02:50:23] if you're alive.
[02:50:25] And on top of that, if you get done with a really good dinner,
[02:50:28] even if you got some delicious like steak.
[02:50:31] And then you got done.
[02:50:33] And you still have this little thing in the back.
[02:50:36] You're head that you just need a little.
[02:50:38] A little bit of sweetness, a little bit of that.
[02:50:41] You can just mix it in the ones who better.
[02:50:43] Just mix yourself a one scoop moke.
[02:50:46] And you'll go to bed completely satisfied.
[02:50:50] You feel like, look, I'm completely satisfied with what I've eaten.
[02:50:57] Yes.
[02:50:58] And you're stronger.
[02:50:59] And healthier.
[02:51:00] On your way to recover.
[02:51:02] Yes, too.
[02:51:03] You will not relate to this,
[02:51:05] but people may be able to.
[02:51:07] Okay.
[02:51:08] So, when you get on the path from,
[02:51:11] not being on the path, your initial get on might include quitting drinking,
[02:51:17] cutting down drinking, but probably quitting drinking.
[02:51:20] Okay.
[02:51:21] So, here's a common thing that I heard and experience with quitting drinking,
[02:51:25] where you kind of crave like sweets or like desserts.
[02:51:29] And just something that'll like give you a, like,
[02:51:31] a what a dopamine or whatever the chemical hit.
[02:51:34] Yeah.
[02:51:35] Yeah.
[02:51:36] So, you'll want that.
[02:51:37] Like you want like cookies or stuff.
[02:51:39] Because you're not drinking anymore or whatever.
[02:51:41] That'll be like a result.
[02:51:42] Yep.
[02:51:43] This is what I heard and literally experienced.
[02:51:45] And it's, it was like stronger than I expected to.
[02:51:48] Now, if you have the moke.
[02:51:51] Boom problem solved.
[02:51:53] 100% because it does supply that, you know,
[02:51:55] the dessert kind of scenario, but she put some peanut butter.
[02:51:58] But, you know, but there, there, no fact.
[02:52:01] There, you're on the path.
[02:52:03] 100% no side effects, no drawbacks.
[02:52:06] Yeah.
[02:52:07] You know, no side effects, no drawbacks.
[02:52:09] If you get the RTD, the ready to drink,
[02:52:11] discipline go in a can.
[02:52:13] RTD.
[02:52:14] Did you speak to them?
[02:52:15] No, no, that's a thing.
[02:52:16] That's a product made.
[02:52:17] It's like, oh, this is an RTD.
[02:52:19] Sounds like you made it up.
[02:52:20] I didn't make it up.
[02:52:21] It's good sounds like you made it up.
[02:52:23] Okay.
[02:52:24] It says it right there on the page.
[02:52:26] Oh, yeah.
[02:52:26] High speed low drag RTD.
[02:52:27] Yeah.
[02:52:28] Make it up in RTD.
[02:52:29] No.
[02:52:30] But speaking of that, when, when I was, when I went up to a
[02:52:33] field, on spot cast, and he was drinking it, and he started
[02:52:36] getting that, you know, you start feeling it.
[02:52:38] He's feeling it.
[02:52:39] And he was pretty funny.
[02:52:42] And he says he said something along the lines of, you know,
[02:52:45] I might find myself back on cocaine.
[02:52:47] Yeah.
[02:52:48] That's true.
[02:52:49] So he, he started feeling like the,
[02:52:51] and I said, no, you don't need to go back on cocaine, you know,
[02:52:53] thinking of myself, you know, you can cocaine.
[02:52:55] Just need a little bit more discipline go RTD, yeah.
[02:52:58] Which is not, and it won't make you.
[02:53:01] It won't make you.
[02:53:03] It's not a gateway drug.
[02:53:05] It's not a gateway drug.
[02:53:06] It's not going to make you end up sleeping on a park fence.
[02:53:09] The opposite.
[02:53:10] You might buy the park.
[02:53:12] It's probably going to happen.
[02:53:14] So, too.
[02:53:15] Also, jokow IT, speaking of picking up park benches and whatnot.
[02:53:18] Yeah.
[02:53:19] Talk about T boom.
[02:53:20] And it happens to taste good.
[02:53:21] And it happens to be certified organic.
[02:53:24] You like mentioning that.
[02:53:25] I, yeah, man.
[02:53:26] I do.
[02:53:27] There's a big deal to get that little
[02:53:29] qualification.
[02:53:31] I dig it.
[02:53:32] It's good.
[02:53:33] It's very good actually.
[02:53:34] Because here's the thing.
[02:53:35] Like, yeah, you, well, even when you first, you see people do you think people in Nebraska care,
[02:53:39] if it's certified organic or you think it's only 40 mile radius around L.A.
[02:53:44] I think some people in Nebraska care.
[02:53:46] That's what I think.
[02:53:47] Right.
[02:53:47] And this is why.
[02:53:48] Where is it?
[02:53:49] Because when you first announced that you're drinking
[02:53:53] pomegranate white tea.
[02:53:55] Oh, yeah.
[02:53:56] People were asking, is it organic?
[02:53:58] Is that what you're going to say?
[02:53:59] That's part of it.
[02:54:00] Yeah.
[02:54:01] Something that whole experience for what primarily is like, all right, that's surprising.
[02:54:05] That doesn't sound very hard core.
[02:54:08] You would think maybe you're drinking something else.
[02:54:11] But when you're like pomegranate white tea.
[02:54:14] Okay.
[02:54:15] Now we can do that or we could edit,
[02:54:17] mid.
[02:54:18] We drink these white teas, which is good.
[02:54:21] But a lot of our wives drink white tea.
[02:54:24] And they tend to care about certified organic.
[02:54:27] In my experience, which is very limited by the way.
[02:54:31] So I'm saying pomegranate white tea.
[02:54:36] Jocco white tea is for everybody.
[02:54:39] And just because you're not all, I don't care about certified organic just because you're like that doesn't mean everyone else.
[02:54:44] In fact, I don't think the majority of the people would rather be certified organic than non organic.
[02:54:50] I would agree with that.
[02:54:51] And the root of me drinking pomegranate white tea is when I used to
[02:54:56] debrief seal potions out in the desert.
[02:55:01] After they would get done with their brief and I would drink chocolate to drink and provide a time to get done.
[02:55:06] I don't think he notes and just get into it.
[02:55:09] But yeah, so check that as well.
[02:55:11] It's good.
[02:55:12] Also, jocco is a store.
[02:55:13] It's called jocco store.
[02:55:14] So you go to jocco store.com.
[02:55:16] We do have t-shirts, hoodies, rash guards, hats, three kinds of hats.
[02:55:23] By the way, three types of head gear.
[02:55:26] By the way, women stuff, you know, decals and stickers.
[02:55:30] These are all things if you want to represent while you're on the path.
[02:55:34] Just plenty.
[02:55:35] It was freedom.
[02:55:36] Death core to the core.
[02:55:38] I like it.
[02:55:39] Good.
[02:55:41] All these things.
[02:55:42] And that's one that's going to permeate kind of everything.
[02:55:44] The good.
[02:55:45] You know, when you find the good in this situation, all these things you can represent.
[02:55:47] Get your stuff.
[02:55:48] Jocco store.com.
[02:55:49] He likes something.
[02:55:50] Get something on there.
[02:55:51] Also, I got to mention that I have a little, I have some events I'm going to be doing around
[02:55:57] the country starting in January around the time the book comes out a little bit earlier.
[02:56:03] I'm going to be in Washington, DC, Austin, Texas.
[02:56:05] I'm going to be somewhere in the vicinity of New York.
[02:56:07] I'm going to be somewhere in the vicinity of LA.
[02:56:10] Somewhere in the vicinity of Seattle, Washington and somewhere in the vicinity of San Francisco.
[02:56:15] So I will let you know, but just pay attention.
[02:56:18] I just got an email right before we started recording this.
[02:56:21] That is actually factually happening.
[02:56:24] I don't even know what I'm going to call it yet.
[02:56:26] So I will be live on stage interacting.
[02:56:30] So there you go.
[02:56:32] Boom.
[02:56:33] Also speaking of live.
[02:56:35] But I imagine when I do those live events, there will be lots of people representing.
[02:56:40] Representing.
[02:56:41] They will be representing in their garments.
[02:56:45] Oh, yes.
[02:56:46] Death are on the path.
[02:56:47] We normally see a lot of people that are wearing something that says Deaf Core or in the wild.
[02:56:55] Yeah.
[02:56:56] So there you go.
[02:56:57] Big time.
[02:56:58] Also subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already on your iTunes.
[02:57:02] If you listen to iTunes.
[02:57:03] Google Play if that's what you listen to.
[02:57:05] Stitcher if you have Android.
[02:57:06] What's with the voice, bro?
[02:57:08] No, I'm just just delegating the listening avenues.
[02:57:12] I'm saying.
[02:57:13] And leave a review.
[02:57:14] If you're in the mood, if you're in the mood, leave a review.
[02:57:16] We review is a welcome.
[02:57:18] I haven't read reviews lately on the podcast.
[02:57:21] But I've done that before.
[02:57:22] I'll do it again.
[02:57:23] I see some good ones.
[02:57:24] Some ones that kind of nail it.
[02:57:26] Yeah.
[02:57:27] Kind of have layers.
[02:57:28] We're looking for layers.
[02:57:29] Yeah.
[02:57:30] Primarily.
[02:57:31] Yes.
[02:57:32] So and you noticed they said welcome reviews are welcome.
[02:57:34] Because it difference between welcome and accepted.
[02:57:37] So already know reviews are accepted.
[02:57:39] Where do you know you can write review?
[02:57:40] Are they expected?
[02:57:41] You're not expected.
[02:57:42] I wouldn't say it's just well.
[02:57:43] Yeah.
[02:57:44] Well, welcome.
[02:57:45] Meaning like if there's a review, that's like we kind of like that.
[02:57:48] Like we kind of, you know, like we kind of put the smile on certain people's faces.
[02:57:53] And we're going to go ahead and read that one.
[02:57:55] Don't forget that we have another podcast called Grounded.
[02:57:59] It's just a podcast called Grounded where we talk about other things.
[02:58:04] And I think that's the way you said this on the last little support section.
[02:58:08] Because how do you describe what we talk about on Grounded?
[02:58:12] And I think the answer is we talk about other things.
[02:58:15] Yes.
[02:58:16] You know what does that mean?
[02:58:17] Well it's other things.
[02:58:18] I think that's about.
[02:58:19] I think that spells it out.
[02:58:20] Yeah man.
[02:58:21] Yeah.
[02:58:22] As opposed to what?
[02:58:23] These things.
[02:58:24] It's not these things.
[02:58:25] There's more other things.
[02:58:26] Yeah.
[02:58:27] Yeah.
[02:58:28] Equally important things.
[02:58:29] Well, very important.
[02:58:31] Maybe not equally important.
[02:58:34] Interesting.
[02:58:35] Yes.
[02:58:36] I think.
[02:58:37] And here's something that is important.
[02:58:40] I will say this.
[02:58:43] Even though they might not be of equal importance, they are things that will grant you a better understanding,
[02:58:52] a broader understanding of things.
[02:58:54] Yes.
[02:58:55] Of other things.
[02:58:56] The more you understand other things, the more you'll understand these things.
[02:59:01] That is true.
[02:59:02] Yeah.
[02:59:03] Very well put.
[02:59:04] Thanks.
[02:59:05] You need to change whatever that little.
[02:59:06] You know how that.
[02:59:07] You know, a podcast has a little.
[02:59:09] No blurb about what it's about.
[02:59:11] I don't think you've changed the jockel podcast.
[02:59:13] Once you wrote it when you were nine years old.
[02:59:16] But you should make the ground to one say a podcast about other things.
[02:59:22] Yeah.
[02:59:23] All right.
[02:59:24] I'm going to do that.
[02:59:25] I do too.
[02:59:26] So for example, Jason Gardner talking about how he lives up in the mountains.
[02:59:29] And when they go jogging, they got to carry guns just in case they get a fact by freaking mountain lions.
[02:59:35] Those are other things we talk about.
[02:59:37] That's a sense of the meaning.
[02:59:39] But it's important to understand that.
[02:59:41] Yes.
[02:59:42] We also have a warrior kid podcast.
[02:59:44] This is a great podcast not just for kids, but if you're a parent, you can use it to help you parent.
[02:59:50] But you can also learn from it.
[02:59:52] I am a parent.
[02:59:54] I got four kids.
[02:59:56] Two of which are over the age of 18, 20, 18, got a 16 year old and got a 10 year old.
[03:00:02] I'm passing on some lessons learned covertly.
[03:00:06] I'm flanking you with some lessons learned that will help you.
[03:00:10] I wish I would have this podcast with my kids, re-honger.
[03:00:12] But warrior kid podcast, let your kids check it out.
[03:00:14] And don't forget to get yourself some warrior kid.
[03:00:16] So from Irish Oaks Ranch.com or young Aiden is kind of his own business.
[03:00:21] And it's not just a business that's making money.
[03:00:23] It's a business that's helping people.
[03:00:25] Stay clean.
[03:00:27] That's good.
[03:00:29] There.
[03:00:30] Speaking of staying clean, going YouTube.
[03:00:33] I'm not.
[03:00:36] There's a rough transition in the chat once.
[03:00:39] You just called for bad.
[03:00:41] No, no, no, no.
[03:00:42] It does anyway.
[03:00:43] So yeah, if you want to watch the podcast, watch and listen.
[03:00:46] Put on your smart TV and your office, Jim.
[03:00:50] It's a place of, you know, place of workout.
[03:00:54] You see what I'm saying?
[03:00:57] I know what you're saying.
[03:00:58] Or if you just want to watch it, it can be the anyway.
[03:01:00] It's a video version.
[03:01:01] You know, because some people, because video watching video smart TVs, the permeation
[03:01:07] permeation.
[03:01:08] I don't know what that was your talking about.
[03:01:10] That's the prevalence of smart TVs.
[03:01:13] This is what I'm saying.
[03:01:15] You're good at more YouTube is what I'm saying.
[03:01:18] You're gonna have more of the, you know, Jim saying.
[03:01:20] So boom, subscribe.
[03:01:21] Put it up.
[03:01:22] Put it on there.
[03:01:23] Listen to it.
[03:01:24] Do it.
[03:01:25] Do it.
[03:01:26] And if you need some, um, some psychological help getting through a moment of weakness.
[03:01:30] You don't have to be alone.
[03:01:32] You don't have to be alone.
[03:01:33] You have to fight that fight by yourself.
[03:01:35] You can get fire support when you press play on your phone of an album called Psychological
[03:01:43] Warfare.
[03:01:44] The artist known as me, Jaco.
[03:01:47] Lay it now tracks.
[03:01:48] No music.
[03:01:49] Just voice.
[03:01:50] Just me talking and telling you, hey, this is what you can do to overcome that particular
[03:01:55] moment of weakness.
[03:01:56] Whether it's you're thinking you don't want to go to the gym.
[03:01:58] Whether you think you're gonna eat a donut.
[03:01:59] No press play on your phone and take a listen.
[03:02:02] Take a listen.
[03:02:03] We'll get you right.
[03:02:04] We'll keep you on the path.
[03:02:05] And if you need a visual reminder to be on the path to stay on the path.
[03:02:10] Check out flipside canvas dot com with the code of Meyer.
[03:02:14] It's to code of Meyer's company.
[03:02:17] And he's creating graphic visual designs that will help remind you where you are.
[03:02:28] Where you are.
[03:02:29] Where you're going.
[03:02:31] And where you want to be.
[03:02:33] Flipside canvas dot com.
[03:02:35] Also, I have some books.
[03:02:36] The first book is the stress effect written by Colonel Henry Dick Thompson.
[03:02:42] So we just reviewed that.
[03:02:43] It's an outstanding book.
[03:02:45] There's all kinds of information in there.
[03:02:47] I only read a small percentage of it.
[03:02:49] But tons of knowledge.
[03:02:53] So order that.
[03:02:54] You can find it on jaco.pondcast dot com.
[03:02:57] Under books from the podcast.
[03:03:01] And then there is leadership strategy and tactics, which is my newest book.
[03:03:07] Coming out January 14th.
[03:03:10] I just opened up the index open up the index.
[03:03:13] And what do I see here's some sections.
[03:03:16] Some sections you can read about.
[03:03:19] Fear inducing moments failure feedback fighting fire teams.
[03:03:25] Flanking maneuver.
[03:03:27] Foot patrol friendly fire.
[03:03:29] Leading from the front front lines.
[03:03:31] FTX.
[03:03:32] Full mission profiles.
[03:03:33] Good teams.
[03:03:34] Gossip.
[03:03:36] Guidance.
[03:03:37] Hackworth.
[03:03:38] David.
[03:03:39] Hands off leadership.
[03:03:40] Head counts.
[03:03:41] Heavy handed approach.
[03:03:42] High ground.
[03:03:43] High risk operations.
[03:03:45] Honesty.
[03:03:46] Hope.
[03:03:47] Humility.
[03:03:48] These are some of the topics that get covered.
[03:03:50] And the leadership strategy.
[03:03:52] I've been doing this for a while.
[03:03:55] I've been doing this for a while.
[03:03:58] So you can refer to it.
[03:04:00] You can open it up and say, hey, I got a person that I'm that is.
[03:04:04] Has a negative attitude.
[03:04:06] What's I do with them.
[03:04:07] Oh, I'll open up the field manual and follow the directions.
[03:04:11] So that's what that book is.
[03:04:13] Tons of good information in there for you.
[03:04:15] Don't forget if you've got kids or you know kids.
[03:04:18] Help those kids out by getting them.
[03:04:20] Get that warrior kid one two and three warrior kid one way of the warrior kid.
[03:04:27] Warrior kid two marks mission and warrior kid three where there's a will.
[03:04:32] These books are the books that every human wishes they had when they were eight years old nine years old ten years old eleven years old twelve years old.
[03:04:40] Make that wish come true for someone that you know for a kid that you know your kids.
[03:04:45] Some other kids nephews, nieces.
[03:04:47] Bring it to a library.
[03:04:49] Whatever you can do to spread the word and then there's Mikey in the dragons,
[03:04:52] which is a book that teaches even little or kids maybe four five six seven eight.
[03:04:58] How to overcome fear, which is what you have to do when you're growing up as a human being.
[03:05:04] You got to learn to overcome fear that book actually teaches little kids how to do it.
[03:05:09] Mikey in the dragons.
[03:05:11] Get that for every kid you know.
[03:05:14] Get that for the library.
[03:05:16] For the for the classroom.
[03:05:20] Spread the word and then there's the discipline equals freedom field manual.
[03:05:23] You don't know what to get that person for Christmas.
[03:05:27] Cool.
[03:05:28] Do you want that person to be weak?
[03:05:29] Do you want that person to be out of shape?
[03:05:31] Do you want that person to have mental trauma?
[03:05:34] Or do you want them to be on the path?
[03:05:37] Give them the gift of discipline.
[03:05:40] Give them the gift of discipline.
[03:05:43] You can't just put them in the book.
[03:05:47] It's a different.
[03:05:49] It hits you in a different way.
[03:05:51] It's not normal.
[03:05:53] And that's why it's effective.
[03:05:55] Discipline.
[03:05:56] Because freedom field manual get that also the audio version of that is not unautable.
[03:06:00] It's on MP3s through iTunes or Amazon, music or Google Play.
[03:06:04] Also we have extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership.
[03:06:07] Where life, bab and end eye.
[03:06:09] And so we have to be able to explain what we learned from a leadership perspective on the battlefield and how you can use those same tools in whatever doing in leading whatever situation you are leading in.
[03:06:24] And also we have Esslon front.
[03:06:26] Leadership consultancy where we solve problems through leadership.
[03:06:29] That's what we do.
[03:06:30] We come into businesses and we help with the problems that the businesses have.
[03:06:35] We help them solve those problems 100% based on fixing leadership improving leadership.
[03:06:42] Aligning leadership when you align and you fix and you improve leadership.
[03:06:46] That turns businesses companies and teams around.
[03:06:49] So go to Esslon front dot com if you want some of that.
[03:06:53] EF online.
[03:06:55] You don't necessarily have to bring us into speak to every person in your company.
[03:07:00] You go to EF online dot com.
[03:07:02] And we can train your people or you virtually.
[03:07:06] That's what it is.
[03:07:08] It's a virtual training.
[03:07:10] It's interactive.
[03:07:11] You actually get put in leadership scenarios inside that training online and you got to make decisions like choose your own adventure.
[03:07:17] So that's EF online dot com.
[03:07:21] We have the mustard dates coming out shortly for our leadership conference extreme ownership dot com for that.
[03:07:26] Where we come with the entire Esslon front team live.
[03:07:31] And in person and we bring the knowledge that we have and share it with you.
[03:07:37] And then we have EF over watching EF Legion where we are taking.
[03:07:42] Selected military personnel.
[03:07:45] We are ensuring that they understand the principles that we talk about.
[03:07:50] The principles of extreme ownership.
[03:07:52] The principles of the the dichotomy of leadership.
[03:07:54] We make sure that they know and understand those.
[03:07:56] And then we place them into companies in the civilian sector so that those leaders can lead and help those companies win.
[03:08:08] Go to EF over watch dot com or EF Legion for that.
[03:08:14] And if you.
[03:08:16] If you need more of us, which is really just hard to even imagine that someone could want to hear more of.
[03:08:23] Either of us, but if you want to find us, you can't wear on the interwebs Dick Thompson.
[03:08:29] Colonel Dick Thompson.
[03:08:31] Colonel Henry Dick Thompson.
[03:08:34] He is on Twitter.
[03:08:36] He is at HPS underscore CEO.
[03:08:40] And he's at HPSYS dot com, which is for high performing systems.
[03:08:48] If you want to check him out and learn from him, he's just an unbelievable human being.
[03:08:56] And it's an honor to have sat with him.
[03:08:59] As far as echo and I, we are also on the interwebs.
[03:09:02] We are on Twitter.
[03:09:03] We are on Instagram.
[03:09:05] And we are on that base.
[03:09:08] Boogie.
[03:09:09] Ah.
[03:09:11] Echo is at Eccotrols.
[03:09:13] And I am at Jocca Willing.
[03:09:15] And once again.
[03:09:17] Just complete.
[03:09:21] Thanks since serious possible.
[03:09:25] Thanks.
[03:09:27] Gratitude to Dick Thompson for coming on this program.
[03:09:32] And sharing his lessons with us.
[03:09:34] And of course, we thank him for his.
[03:09:38] Incredible service and sacrifice to our great nation.
[03:09:45] For what he's done inside the military and for what he's done since he's left the military.
[03:09:50] So thank you.
[03:09:52] Colonel salute.
[03:09:54] And appreciate it.
[03:09:56] And obviously an open door anytime you want to come back.
[03:10:00] And to the rest of our service men and women out there who stand watch for us every day.
[03:10:09] Thanks to what.
[03:10:11] Thanks to you for what you do.
[03:10:14] And the same goes to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service.
[03:10:23] And all this first responders out there.
[03:10:27] You also makes sacrifices to protect us.
[03:10:32] So thank you.
[03:10:34] For what you do.
[03:10:35] And to everyone else out there.
[03:10:39] Just stay aware.
[03:10:42] To be aware.
[03:10:43] Be aware of what leadership is.
[03:10:45] Be aware of what stresses.
[03:10:49] Be aware of what cognitive ability and emotional reactions.
[03:10:55] And be aware of stress.
[03:10:58] And the impacts that stress has on your decision making process.
[03:11:06] And think about that.
[03:11:07] And also think about this.
[03:11:13] Think about the fact that you're free.
[03:11:19] You're free.
[03:11:20] Our country is free.
[03:11:21] And we are free because of the heroism and valor of those warriors that faced fear and horror and death.
[03:11:32] And still moved forward.
[03:11:36] And gone after it.
[03:11:40] And until next time, this is Echo and Jocco out.