Jocko Podcast 203: One Man Can Make a Difference. USMC Corporal, Jason Dunham.

2019-11-17T19:10:29Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening. 0:02:36 - The story of Jason Dunham, with Bill Hampton, Kelly Miller, John Ferguson, Trent Gibson. 3:34:07 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 3:38:20 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/jocko-fuel/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko 4:12:00 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

but he kept caught a fleeting glimpse of done him's helmet on the ground next to the Iraqi done him was on his stomach with his arms outstretched in front of him and wrapped around the sides of his helmet as if you were holding it down on top of something then came the explosion Bill Hampton saw flash of light but the explosion didn't sound very loud to him his vision blurred and he knew that something had happened to him he just didn't know what his first thought was whether his teeth had been hit he ran his tongue along them and was relieved to find them all in place but his face leg and arm leaked red the concussion and broken his nose one tiny metal fragment hit him under the nostrils and another embedded itself in his top lip a piece of shrapnel about the size of a pen tip had it hit him in the right knuckle several shards of metal hit him in the left arm and left leg one piece hit a bone in his forearm broke up and opened an inch wide hole as it exited another travel to up his arm and cut away cut its way out the middle of his elbow leaving exit shaped tear then lodged in his bicep he remembered that slowing his breathing would slow the bleeding and he tried to do so he staggered against the cinder block wall and backed toward the intersection he couldn't left his rifle with his left arms who he held in his right by the trigger guard and pistol grip trying to keep an eye out for enemy fighters a bowman of flash Kelly Miller saw the explosion and it's aftermath in a series of still frames first he saw a done him tipping over his radio headset still on but his helmet gone then Miller saw the sky as he fell over backwards onto the rocket launcher slung from his shoulder he here to steady ring like the sound of a hospital heart monitor makes when the patient flat lines Miller's face hurt and is and felt hot as if he had a bad somber he tasted blood in his mouth and had the vape feeling he was being shot at his left arm hurt next he tried to grab his rifle with his left hand but nothing happened he wondered why his arm wasn't working he looked down to see blood streaming off the fingertips one piece of hot metal admitell admitell's upper lip traveled inside his right cheek and shattered a molar before coming to rest inside of his back cheek other fragments peppered around the area around his eyes left cheek and forehead the blast blew out his left ear drum one piece of grenade shap and went clean through his right tricep side to side and punctured the breakery will artery but for some reason it didn't hurt as bad as his upper left arm which had been hit by five or six big chunks of metal and sprayed with pavol size fragments the explosion left sanders the radio operator temporarily deaf he saw dent done them Miller and Hampton Hampton knocked back by the blast and thought they're all fucking dead you know again for young people and any employment like this whether you're a cop or you're a soldier you're marine whatever situation you're in well this is one thing that we learned there's this idea that when you hit someone if you hit him hard enough they're going to get knocked out and we learned this over and over again that it's not true and there's a chance when you hit someone you can knock him out there's a chance that they don't get knocked out one of my my assistant Petune commander and her room we were taking down a building and there was a a combatif in a combatif in surgeon in there and you know we had learned the muscle strike muscle strike you know muscle strike to the face it'll it'll knock him out for sure it may kill him so you gotta be a little bit careful whatever my assistant Petune commander did the hardest muscle strike I think a person could he he took a running start without eight yards and fully cock back his weapon and then drove it into this guy's head and and it deflected a little bit like around the brow and carved out a big giant chunk of his scalp no factor the guy he's bleeding like a stuck pig but he kept fighting so all that's going on and here we go back to the book while done him Miller and Hampton wrestled with the Iraqi Sergeant Reynolds the sniper told Sanders to provide covered case the Iraqi had friends around so Sanders was more than a dozen dozen yards away from the fight when he heard done him yellow warning well you still hear these explosions I turned to him when I said what do you think and he says I think Leam is getting hit I said well let's go get those motherfuckers so we called his boys and told him they were settling up and pushing out and our vehicles had been satellite into the time on a certain radius outside of our position so we started moving out onto route diamond that was a MSR that would lead us west into Leam and Company's pause and we started running because there was a sense of urgency you know when when the fucking sister units get hit you you want to fucking help so we started running down diamond and Sanders on the run got a hold of the gun trucks and got him to link up with us on time and so before long the truck showed up we mounted up and then started racing west and within moments in RPG flew over one of the highbacks right over Carberhol's head and we knew he had arrived at the ambush site by the time we got in the trucks we heard on the radio net that he wasn't leaving to get mortar because the tank man has patrol just got hit outside the arches which is the almost the eastern periphery of Hussainva and it made you want to please him you know like I remember distinctly like I want this guy to look at me like being pressed like I want him to like me you know but not not I don't like not as a friend I just wanted to look me back that's fucking good and reenact you know that's one of my Marines and so you're trying to live up to this bar he sets and it made us all better I've ever been honored to serve with and so he was getting as much intelligence it could from the cavalry squadron that we were turned over with first to the third ACR was up in all kinds by the time we got there they had been in country for 11th freaking miles and they were operating out of their that base up on the Syrian border if you say about and then their cavalry headquarters was at the train station in all kind which was about you know 28 miles southeast of the the border post you say so we knew that things were going to hell on hand basket up there and across Iraq is a whole that if you were listening to the news reports I'd listen to impure everyone coming in and if you're paying attention that you knew that this this was going to be a wild west and it wasn't going to be the same kind of environment that we had experienced at the end of the pushup you know that in the last three months of OF1 and it really hit me one day I was I was coming in listening to impure news and Normie rifle company commander had been killed that week and they hear that on the radio known that a rifle company commander is killed that you know that this is going to be a different fucking show altogether. exactly yes thank you Phil how old were you at this point Bill 22 22 get some you know he talking to a lot of these guys that have brought on that were going into the most horrible situations whether it was Taroa, Guadalcanat wherever you know there's uh there's something that the young man has which I think we all know which is it's gonna happen to someone else like hey people are gonna get hurt people are gonna get wounded people are gonna get killed not gonna be me and I right there because I was thinking about that when I was reading this book this idea of the Iraqi police became a national program in 2006 before that it had become something called it was something called desert protector which was sort of the same thing like we're gonna get a homegrown kids young men to help police and a lot of that from what I've been told came from alchim when the push happened through alchim but that was in 2005 that the big push happened alchim was an operation manager and those Marines got civilians that came up and said hey there's bad guys over there hey there's bad guys over there and the idea was okay let's get that let's let's hire those people so we're talking now 2004 and and your battalion commander Colonel Lopez was already in the game thinking that way that's impressive force I right there that's outstanding and I got ahead incredible sense of ownership he never waited for permission to do anything he just like oh you know what leadership boils down to is that you care about your men you care about your men because if you care about your men and your men know that then it goes back to what you said Trent if you take care of your men then your men are going to take care of you and the many you see a leader that's walking around barking orders thinking of themselves and by the way anybody that thinks they can they can plot a little good agenda for themselves and their team isn't going to see it you're wrong all day long today and twice on Sunday that's what's going to happen but that leader that's going hey I'm doing this for the good of the team that's the one that will get the crown of leadership there's one story that sticks out to me and it was when we first got in his own where Lima was setting up base there wasn't one so when we weren't doing a patrol we were setting up Hasco barriers and Philanham by hand and you get a working party together go to do it well who does working parties did you in years you know yeah that's a tough spot to get put into you're you got no combat experience you're rolling in here and you're gonna start taking over for guys that do have combat experience that certainly think that they deserve that role that's a tough one one of the things that Tinka brought up about the reorganization like from a brand new boot who doesn't know anything as soon as the reorganization happened one of the side effects was I learned how to shoot machine guns because I was surrounded by a couple of machine guns I learned about mortars I learned about demo you know by the time I deployed I had done him had grilled me so hard about machine guns I could clear and operated 240 I understood like the basics to shooting a 50 cal if I had to in a pinch you know but they have the highest priority for care for another member of our navy marine core team the chaplain an expected patient does not always die expectant means you expect something to happen and most often it is death but sometimes after the higher priority patients have been treated and expecting patients survives their their care should be continued with the resources that can be committed heroic efforts may seem to be helpful in the short run but if resources are expended when the next patient arrives then you have not helped this latter patient this is when judgments are critical and I would dare say that very very few of us have enough experience to make these decisions easily when the decisions must be made talk about it include your entire team and your decisions move on if the patient is expected make sure that he is comfortable and that someone stays with him until something happens the patient does die document the death appropriately at the seven a.m. staff meeting commander sparks a brisk woman whose all burn hair and bright lipsticks stood out next to the black nine millimeter pistol hanging from a shoulder past the chief surgeon's message along to her physicians she briefly discussed it with them highlighting the advice that doctors revisit the expected ones once they have treated the other patients then she moved on to other issues that after noon Jason Dunham arrived at Alpha surgical company expected to die in Alpha surgical companies contingency plan for dealing with mass casualty event responsibility for the expected ward fell in the navy dental team they had enough general knowledge to push intravenous fluids into a dying man but not enough to be much use in the trauma ward operating room or intensive care unit dental technician first class Christopher Graham who had helped carry Jason's stretcher in from the helicopter been waiting outside the emergency room while the doctors completed their triage after 15 minutes the door opened in an and an order emerged from the chaos please take this patient to the expectant ward Graham and three other Graham and three other's carried corporal Dunham's litter to a dim white tile room with a pair of broken shower stalls a tape above the door red washroom all the saw horses were in use elsewhere so the litter team carefully placed the stretcher on the floor Graham sat by corpus by the corporal side across from Rachel Sterling a 21 year old dental technician third class Sterling had chosen service in the navy because her grandfather and great uncle had been in sailors navy lieutenant James L Harris the third a 32 year old dentist from crocket Texas joined them in the expected warm ward and did as the chaplain as did the chaplain lieutenant lents then they waited for corporal Dunham to die for 45 minutes they spoke to him in soft voices holding his hands and stroking his limp muscular arms as lieutenant Harris pushed fluids and painkillers into his veins from an IV sack the Marine Corps is proud of you and we're all proud of you Graham told him well obviously uh Dunham was a fighter and wasn't wasn't wasn't run to give up makes it to Germany and you know again I think um she was up in Germany and this is the situation he was in Jason was hooked up to a plethora of medical equipment over the course of the day there was an intercranial pressure monitor there was a catheter that passed through his eerie footer drain as bladder into a bag a line ran into his left femoral artery demonstrators blood pressure and allow the nurses to draw blood samples easily he had a rectal temperature probe on the right side of his groin was a triple headed catheter running into a vein for IV fluids and drugs there was an endotracheal tube in his mouth to facilitate the passage of air between the ventilator and his lungs plus a suction tube to draw excess fluid from his lungs and an oral gastric tube to suck out stomach acid compressing sleeves on both calves alternately squeezed and relaxed to keep blood moving through his legs to prevent clots five pads on his chest monitor is heart rate a blood oxygen monitor was clip on to his finger a blood pressure cuff was on his arm in case the automatic reading failed the nurses put a sterile plastic cup under each ear to collect the cerebral spinal fluid that continued to drain out of his ear drums and he says what's this and Hampton says you spent your day taking care of us we know you haven't had time to take care of yourself so where it's chum and always remember being a student at TBS you know it's a segmented tenant and hearing stories from instructors about being a good leader has an officer and if you're doing your job and taking care of your brains they're going to take care of you back right like if you're digging into the D you've got more important shit to do than digger on fucking hole there was a story about their about a two commander would come back to find his Marines finishing up his freaking hole for him because he was too busy taking care of them you know to worry about protecting himself and that came back to me in a flash and to me the imagery of them presenting him with that played a child and then you had another gun truck in trail so you get where you're going the fucking squad dismounts and then those four trucks could satellite around the dismounts to keep the enemy guessing while these guys did their work what was the how long are to take for you guys to take casualties rolling in there you remember the times first casualties were on sand panties day fireclaw so you guys got there in February in the same paddies day as what end of March middle of March end of March the actual effective transfer of authority day I think was the damn I think the first week of March maybe it's saying it wouldn't long before we took our first casualties cat red took an idea of the checkpoint 51 in my zone Marines were still rolling around with the windows down we took a hit to the elbow another Marine took strappin all through the window into the back was like the gunner did right and I had to turn that into the COC with all the radio frequencies because he knew I wanted to know like that's how I was I was wanted to know I didn't want to know my team there's job I wanted to know my squad leader's job like I wanted you know but I'm actually going to go and and read a little bit of this book picking up from from that situation so here we go at about 1220 PM the Marines reached the next cross street where the alleyway hit a T junction on the left before the junction was an unfinished single story home made of a tan stone and poured concrete with red metal doors and window grates on the right the alleyway widened out to the courtyard of a concrete and center blockhouse of rusty twisted car chassis lying for the only amid the trash straight ahead over some buildings and about a block away they could see the top of the water treatment plant the dirt lane that crossed in front of them was deeply rotted to their right was bordered on the north side by a tumbled down stone wall and a couple dozen yards further to the west a straight ahead center block wall stopped in the lane where eight vehicles pointing from east pointing east toward the approaching Marines from the corner done him in his men could see a small bus a van a white Toyota land cruiser a second SUV a red tractor a black BMW a white truck frozen in the middle of an attempt to turn around in a narrow lane and finally a white sedan with all four doors open the point man Miller had just reached the T junction when staff sergeant Ferguson a few dozen yards back noticed the lineups line up of vehicles what's going on he asked Corporal Dunham what are you doing done and wanted to keep moving but Ferguson recalled the white SUV that sergeant Reynolds had seen high tailing across J. to few minutes earlier and thought the cars were worth the quick look no Ferguson told Dunham we're going to search these calls cars so there you go guys yeah you know furred was talking earlier about you know making sure that people understand why they're doing what they're doing and how important that is no doubt you know for me that's the key of decentralized command is making sure that everyone knows why they're doing what they're doing but the other thing that happens is when like what you're saying when you give people the opportunity to come up with part of the plan it's like it's elevates them and makes them it's they have ownership of the plan because they made it up you know they made it up and you're you know one of your guys is grappling with an insurgent that can that's a that's a tough shot to take because it's not like a movie where the bad guys hold in the hostage still because this is a fight that's going on and you know anything can happen at any point and the other thing is I mean you guys are you got to think you're I'd be thinking to myself and I mean that's why I frequently went ran point I was like I want to be the first one I want to be in the lead I'm gonna be checked for ideas something happens it's gonna shoot me I know how fast I am I can get by in a wall you know I never ever never crossed my mind I didn't even you know really weird way even with all the casualties that happen I didn't think it was an option but it was always up to 10 Robinson right because it was a team-sized patrol that told time they're up there so in addition to that there was a bit of angst but concern in the air of the company as a whole because we just fired two rifle squad leaders both from the same team Kilo 3 two corpos that had talked a good game came across as no one there shit you know during the training back in 20 poms and we're selected as squad leaders Kilo 3 one and Kilo 3 3 and by the time we were in our third week of operations in all time you could tell in the mission brief prior to step off whether that squad leader knew what the fuck he was doing or not whether he had put a time in effort into preparing his Marines for that fucking patrol and these two Marines two corpos weren't taking it seriously enough they didn't grasp the gravity of the situation they thought they could just bullshit their way through it well he he had multiple like it was a small cash before five guns I think there was an RPG and because it was passing by a period in the windows you know passenger window and I hit the second window vehicle and I saw them and it's like instantaneous as I'm looking up to say something they start fighting and I didn't have a chance of like saying you know I just reacted to go around and assist how many guys were in the vehicle I keep my mouth shut my ears open do what you told so I got I mean I got I got put in charge of a couple of the other boots to make sure they're square to wait when I got there my most memorable memory actually of when we first showed up is I met first certain tempatin at times and at the time Captain Gibbs comes over and addresses us and I just remember it's the weirdest memory he stood with the sun directly as back I know if I can ideally look like at all I couldn't I couldn't see him so I stood post on top one of the buildings while these guys cleared out the rest of the houses in the vicinity and we pulled in some E.P. W's from that right I said whether time date they finished and got back to the site furred was explained to me what had happened and I was looking around and they had taken the weapons out of that land cruiser and stacked them up against the wall and as I recall there were a couple eight days couple RPGs Mark one grenade mills bomb British made grenade looks like a pineapple grenade like from over to you know Kila one where the only ones we didn't need no help from Lima we could man whatever position Martin 1924 to golf so the way we did that though it was awesome and that paid off dividends been having Jason Sanders and he I didn't have to tell many things except for the clarification how many vehicles came in and get you it was our uh what was it it was corpuself right cat white can't wait because stop was there McManus and so came in with four mix four vehicles four vehicles over watch position we kept them anytime we had a union zone and even while we were out of out of zone uh God for the first two months we had a cat section in zone around the clock as as a ready QRF in case the battalion in the union of a time came in contact there was always someone in zone who could fucking respond well for me it wasn't until cat white came in picked up done them that I actually realized how bad I was hurt like I had got the buddy aid and we eventually got word on that 22nd that Donald passed when he was removed from life support so he lived for eight days from point of injury to being in a roof from life support with his parents at his side and the common honor of the Marine Corps there as well but this was all for us and anecdotal because we're in the middle of it there's no fucking break it was just something else that we had to absorb and when I got the word that evening when we had a break in patrols I pulled the whole company in and gave them the news you know one of the things that that really they this guy Philips he literally interviewed like everyone that came in contact with Jason over that time period and this this story as it unfolds is very well yeah so quick vehicle search that's where you guys are doing pretty straightforward back to the book Corporal Dunham and PFC Miller moved quickly up the street until they came to the elderly white land cruiser which was some 50 yards from the intersection where the alleyway met the road Miller edged along the passenger side and saw the muzzle and wood front grip of an AK 47 rifle poking out from under the floor map he looked up in time to see the driver a young Iraqi man in a black tracksuit open the door and lunge at Dunham people uh the people a lot of people don't know about the mujahadine uniform of the tracksuit the tracksuit so you see the guy in the tracksuit again this is these things you can't when you explain them to people it's almost like a bad movie I mean Rick Ganon Lima Company commander and for the Marines killed an opening stages of the battle for who save on the 17th three days after Donna was hit you know company commander gone just like that so it wasn't a question of if it was gonna happen so at least for me I just resolved that it was gonna happen so once I accepted that it was easier to operate because then you didn't have that uncertainty about whether or not it would happen so it's just like well when it comes to counts it doesn't even fucking do about it yeah we we'd get dropped off we could get we'd get dropped off and they'd go and all right well they go back and support QRF or whatever we wait to go get us or they go check out another spot over on the other side of town while were you satellite to them got it what'd you like better though build did you like better sitting in the home v-way on the start my idea that's what I was felt like one the thing you had for us we weren't rolling in a breaker four to a humpy we weren't high backs so in the back of the humpy there was six of us seven crammed in there we actually have video of one of my small elements was out in Ramadi got to big gunfight they were with some Iraqi soldiers one Iraqi soldier got wounded one Iraqi soldier got killed called in the tanks the tanks went in escorted him put down fire cast of act the home on yards as the patrol and back in one of the Overwatch to seal Overwatch positions was videoing them and as they're coming in like World War II style in a column in between two tanks and their their patrol and back and the video the video cameras like tracking them and you can hear the the Paltoon Chief Tonya Frattie looks up at the camera and yells everything's a big joke that's how so so to your sentiment right so by the time the Marines went on there two weeks Christmas Lea blog the new squad organizations had been announced but the first time that those squad leaders stood in front of their Marines was on the second in January but March Air Force base on the first day of the last five days of a time level training that we were gonna have before we find a deploy so we accepted a degree of risk in it but in the end getting that spread of talent experience leadership and fresh blood spreading it evenly across the company I felt quite confident going into OF2 that I could plug any rifle squad into a mission and they be able to pull it off but he liked the idea of having one in kept it in a holster zip tied to his flat vest up until that point Miller used it mostly to fend off stray dogs but as he ran around the front of the SUV toward Dunham and the Iraqi again foreign fighter he pulled the baton out and snapped it down to his side to extended to its full length Miller saw the Iraqi lying on his back his head toward the rear of the land cruiser Dunham was faced down on top of him torso rotated slightly counterclockwise Miller planned his left knee in the Iraqi's ribs Braising his left hand on Dunham's back he slammed the butt of the baton as hard as he could into the Iraqis forehead the blow was so sharp that the metal baton collapsed back into itself Miller was amazed the man was still conscious much less still fighting he drove the baton into the Iraqis forehead again then jabbed it into the left side of the man's neck a blood choke he had been told would pinch off circulation to the brain through the karate artery Lance Corporal Hampton saw the melee in charge around the van and up the street his adrenaline surging all they could hear was the loud pounding of his own pulse as he searched for an open shot on the Iraqi to hit shoot him in the head he said to himself he aimed his rifle but worried that any shot might go through the Iraqi and hit Miller hell he thought a muzzle pump Marines are taught to poke the rifle barrels into the eyes their enemies to make sure their dead only the dead or comatose could resist flinching when poked hard in the eye with a long piece of metal the muzzle pump could also be delivered to the chest to get someone aggressive to back off without resorting to deadly force Hampton planned to fump the Iraqi in the temple if it knocked him out fine if it killed him that was fine with bill two Hampton picked out a spot on the rigging Iraqis temple and pulled his rifle back to get some force behind it is there a bill for shaking your head I was going to put that thing through his head I was put it through his eye but then it was back to petroleum again right back to it there was no no break and and there was the last thing that I was gonna take was a break right because now now we know what the fucking score is we've just we've lost a Marine on the 9th in a massive ambush now we've lost Donald the rest of the battalion is taking casualties Ramadi is blowing up my good friend Chris Bronsy takes 15th of you actually in the 13th coming commander in two four is in there and they're in a fight for their fucking lives it's going to hell in the hand basket across all of our promise so there was no rest we were in it but but one thing that a lot of people especially civilians don't understand is that they're still missions to do and they're still a work to be done and it the the enemy the when the enemy gets a win they don't back off in fact oftentimes they step it up which means we get no rest from a leadership perspective you guys now looking at your troops going okay here's what happened we have ops to do what did that look like from your all's perspective it was a really busy time we knew that Donald had been cassey backed and eventually it made it back a state side to Bethesda we're in the fucking middle of it and on the 17th all hell broke loose and that was the day that Rick Ganon and for his Marines from weapons particularly McEuney were killed and that that kicked off the battle for his saver and that lasted for three freaking days we came out of there on the on the 19th and so that that was a conventional attack and defense followed by a sweeping clear within the entire town of saver and I remember the thing that I cared about most and the bill was the same way I didn't give two bucks about myself I never asked how I was I never asked how bill was because I could see him how was where's done him how's done him you know that was the only thing I could care about because like I'm I could tell like I'm still talking I can think I'm fine enough I could see Bill he was talking looking at me he was going to be okay and we were talking about Dunham and Sanders tells me a story about a fucking conversation that occurred like two weeks earlier when when Kevlar four was still attached to Lima you know during a break between patrols they were resting in the damn the tune space doing the dark tournament that dark tournament we had the white board up and oh man Jason always at the dark board practicing board just school and people so this this conversation comes up it's the type of conversation that combat Marines have combatants period you take that that metal of honor citation book this is thicker than a freaking Bible in my estimation and I used to read from that thing all time as an instructor at the basic school probably half citations in that damn book are from Marines and soldiers cover the fucking gun and they're I'm like your hand is like his left arm has left arm I'm like no my left arm is fine my right arm hurts and they're like

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 203 with me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:12] I want to make sure everyone makes it home alive.
[00:00:18] Corporal Jason Dunham told his friend Lance Corporal Mark Dean.
[00:00:24] He was explaining to Dean why he was extending his enlistment.
[00:00:31] The battalion was headed for a six month appointment to Iraq.
[00:00:35] Jason was due to get out of the Marine Corps in a couple months into that deployment.
[00:00:40] Which meant his time was up.
[00:00:44] And he could carry on with his life.
[00:00:50] He had honorably served his country.
[00:00:55] Dunn what his country had asked him to do.
[00:01:03] But it wasn't enough for him to be signed on for enough time to complete that deployment.
[00:01:16] In order to make sure that his friends, his comrades, his fellow Marines made it home alive.
[00:01:32] And that's what he did.
[00:01:36] He took care of his men.
[00:01:40] He led them. He protected them.
[00:01:48] And he gave them.
[00:01:52] And all of us.
[00:01:57] Everything.
[00:02:03] And it is an honor tonight to have some of those men with us to tell us about Jason Dunham.
[00:02:15] How he lived.
[00:02:18] How he served.
[00:02:21] And how he died.
[00:02:24] A man, a Marine,
[00:02:29] and a hero.
[00:02:34] We have with us Corporal Kelly Miller,
[00:02:38] Sergeant Bill Hampton, Staff Sergeant John Ferguson,
[00:02:42] Lieutenant Colonel Trent Gibson.
[00:02:47] Gentlemen.
[00:02:49] Thank you for showing up here.
[00:02:52] Thanks for coming down.
[00:02:53] Thanks for making the trip.
[00:02:56] Thanks for sitting on those seats to talk about this.
[00:03:02] And I want to get right into it.
[00:03:05] Let's go back to 2003.
[00:03:10] And you guys are in the best place in the world to be.
[00:03:19] A Marine infantry battalion, 37 Marines, a little place called 29 Palms,
[00:03:26] and you're all in Keylo Company.
[00:03:29] I believe.
[00:03:30] Is that right?
[00:03:31] You're all in Keylo Company at the time?
[00:03:33] Yes.
[00:03:34] I was none at the time.
[00:03:35] I came in late May of both three.
[00:03:38] I was at EWS.
[00:03:39] God, a captain was career course.
[00:03:42] I was back in my shit, and I got a call from the batine XO,
[00:03:50] Major Anthony Henderson, and he says, hey, when he's over here,
[00:03:54] you fly out of LAX in two weeks.
[00:03:57] So these guys had already been in country for the whole fucking march up.
[00:04:00] We're already back in Carbola, South of Baghdad, doing stability and security operations.
[00:04:09] So I came in late May to come out of the company.
[00:04:14] I spent three months with Keylo until August when we redeployed.
[00:04:19] We were the second last Marine battalion back out on seven state down in the job.
[00:04:28] And so that was August, 2003.
[00:04:32] And done, I'm still a member of three, four, Keylo, three, four at the time.
[00:04:38] Got it.
[00:04:39] But these guys, Miller, I'm sorry, Hampton, and Ferd,
[00:04:44] they were there for the whole fucking march up and rest of it.
[00:04:49] Okay, and Miller came on.
[00:04:52] August, 2003, when I graduated, no, I was at school of elementary.
[00:04:56] I went to boot camp in June of a three, graduated September 11th of a three,
[00:05:02] went to the school of elementary.
[00:05:04] I didn't get to 29 poems until, I think it was first month at December,
[00:05:11] or first, first at December of 2003.
[00:05:14] So I joined during the work-up for the other end of the planet.
[00:05:17] So tell me a little bit about the work-up for that deployment.
[00:05:20] Let's just jump into that.
[00:05:22] I remember taking a bus ride to the Litterleath Middle of nowhere,
[00:05:29] which was 20 poems, and as soon as we hit the ground,
[00:05:34] Sergeant Trejo took all of us around, because it was a big dump.
[00:05:39] I think you guys got 20 guys, 30, okay.
[00:05:43] And so literally we got off the bus, and instantly went to Siff and got our gear,
[00:05:49] and we went and got our rifles, we got our sappy plates, and by the end of the day
[00:05:54] we were up in the sand hills.
[00:05:56] So you're a boot at this point?
[00:05:58] Yeah, I don't know.
[00:05:59] And you're checking in, and it's legit, like, here's your gear,
[00:06:03] and now we're going on some training exercises now.
[00:06:06] Yes.
[00:06:07] Literally, so that day we graduated, the school of infantry at three o'clock.
[00:06:13] By 10 o'clock at night, I'm up on a sand hill,
[00:06:16] attached to a platoon getting ready to get some.
[00:06:21] And what were you doing at this time, Fug?
[00:06:24] Well, I'll take it back to October of 02, because I was on security forces,
[00:06:29] cadre duty, and a little place called Little Creek, which I'm sure you're familiar with.
[00:06:33] And then I checked into the batayan, and then we did the quick work up,
[00:06:37] and then we did the push.
[00:06:39] But what was crazy about 37 is, I remember we were there for so long.
[00:06:43] We were the first infantry unit in the desert, and then slowly the entire division
[00:06:48] built up around us.
[00:06:49] And then on the push up to Baghdad, we were the first ones across the breech,
[00:06:54] took south on hill, and then the whole snakehead of the division just passed us,
[00:06:58] and we fell in trail, and we didn't get to the lead element,
[00:07:01] and we were just about to go into Baghdad again.
[00:07:04] But what was unique is that we did stage it.
[00:07:07] What were you, what were you at that time?
[00:07:09] I was a staff sergeant.
[00:07:10] I was up to in sergeant.
[00:07:11] Okay.
[00:07:12] For Kilo 1 at the time.
[00:07:13] Roger.
[00:07:14] And I had a good man lieutenant Dave Fleming as my platoon commander.
[00:07:18] And then I had a wild bill here.
[00:07:21] He was one of my top saw Gunners for that deployment.
[00:07:24] So I got to do nine once with him.
[00:07:26] All praise the saw Gunners of the world.
[00:07:28] We named out that saw.
[00:07:31] That thing can sing on me.
[00:07:33] Just take care of her.
[00:07:34] You shall sing all day for you.
[00:07:36] Indeed.
[00:07:37] So you were on that push up to Bill?
[00:07:40] Yes.
[00:07:41] And now you guys are all back.
[00:07:42] So so you guys get done with that deployment,
[00:07:45] and you guys are doing a quick turnaround to go back again.
[00:07:48] Right?
[00:07:49] I think one of the quickest ones we did nine months.
[00:07:51] And then our work up and everything.
[00:07:53] We only did five months back in the States.
[00:07:55] And went back again for a while.
[00:07:57] Two for the additional eight months.
[00:07:58] So in the 22 period or 22 month time,
[00:08:01] we were deployed for 17 of those.
[00:08:03] It was unreal.
[00:08:04] And then I remember two that the day that they told us we were going back for a while.
[00:08:08] I have two.
[00:08:09] It was on a Friday.
[00:08:10] And it was just before the ball weekend.
[00:08:12] Get some.
[00:08:13] And then yeah, then the wire was fine out about all this.
[00:08:16] And then so they're not too much.
[00:08:18] You're supposed to have a good time at the ball.
[00:08:19] Then a lot of them.
[00:08:20] They all they can think about is,
[00:08:21] while you just got back.
[00:08:22] And I was thinking that maybe they should have.
[00:08:24] Not told us the way it told Tuesday after the 72, you know,
[00:08:28] but let us have a good weekend with the ladies.
[00:08:31] Good old military and a green we.
[00:08:34] Check.
[00:08:36] So that's that's the time you're going back.
[00:08:38] Hey, what do you guys remember about when you're meeting Jason for the first time?
[00:08:42] So if I can't put this in perspective.
[00:08:47] So Miller is talking about.
[00:08:50] Graduated in S. O. I.
[00:08:52] And then being up on God damn.
[00:08:57] What, cardiac killed that fucking night.
[00:09:00] So.
[00:09:03] This is a full five day.
[00:09:08] The time level train exercise that we're conducting.
[00:09:12] It's station training.
[00:09:13] It's being facilitated by our sister for tying one seven.
[00:09:16] Who was the last baton out in O F one.
[00:09:21] But we're going to be the first time you back.
[00:09:23] So they've been over backwards to set up this training force.
[00:09:28] And once that Friday hits run a two week leave block for Christmas.
[00:09:35] And then on the second January we're going to be March Air Force Base for one more baton
[00:09:42] Little train exercise.
[00:09:44] And that's the last baton Little train we've got before you push.
[00:09:49] And I'm going to wind up going on advanced party on fucking Valentine's Day, right?
[00:09:56] So it's happening.
[00:09:58] It's happening quick.
[00:09:59] We're going to we're going to freaking time.
[00:10:02] So that afternoon, I'll ever forget.
[00:10:05] We're up on the hill above this rural barracks where three seven is building.
[00:10:12] And we're running through the stations.
[00:10:15] And for a certain coming out to me says, hey sir, we're getting 30 boots from S. O. I.
[00:10:21] Tonight.
[00:10:25] Fucking excuse me.
[00:10:29] Thanks for the heads up for sorry, you know, and I know I'm shooting the messenger
[00:10:33] about what the fuck.
[00:10:35] I'm not complaining. We're getting 30 new Marines, but Jesus Christ, can we get a little
[00:10:39] heads up?
[00:10:42] So those Marines are going to get plugged right into the training, right?
[00:10:47] And so I've got a decision to make about how I'm going to plug 30 brand new
[00:10:55] Marines into the company, which right now is really imbalanced.
[00:11:03] There's a huge loss of NCOs at the end of OF1 as in a vinyd to plant, right?
[00:11:14] They either EAS or PCS and so we don't have an even spread of
[00:11:24] leadership ranks in the battoons.
[00:11:27] You don't have even spread of experience in the battoons.
[00:11:31] You know, I think second battoon had like 20 Marines in it.
[00:11:35] Third battoon had 25 at the time.
[00:11:39] So I got a decision to make. Do I just top everyone off at 30?
[00:11:45] Something Marines, you know, and overnight, if I did that,
[00:11:49] I'd be a little too overnight is going to be twice as inexperienced as say,
[00:11:54] Kilo 3.
[00:11:56] So I knew there was going to be some manpower shifting in order to be able to absorb the
[00:12:02] new blood evenly without putting a platoon at a deficit, right?
[00:12:11] I think the top of that from my three months in country at the end of OF1,
[00:12:19] the thing that I was never happy with was weapons platoon.
[00:12:23] Because there are weapons platoon that are not organized as a standard rifle platoon.
[00:12:29] And in the environment that we were operating, that conventional task organization
[00:12:36] had no place.
[00:12:38] So I was going to be a little bit more likely in practical and unwieldy.
[00:12:42] If weapons platoon was tasked with doing a patrol in Carbola,
[00:12:47] they had to borrow rifles from another rifle platoon in order to go on a patrol.
[00:12:56] And on the other hand, if Kilo 2 was on perimeter security,
[00:13:03] they had to pull Marines out of weapons platoon to man the machine guns that I've got on the freaking posts.
[00:13:11] Right?
[00:13:12] So it just made no sense it was a cluster fun.
[00:13:17] So I knew we were heading into an unconventional operating environment.
[00:13:24] And I thought, well,
[00:13:28] look at it, OF1, we needed weapons guys in the rifle squads, right?
[00:13:34] And we needed riflemen in the weapons platoon.
[00:13:37] So what I'm going to just make for fucking rifle platoon,
[00:13:41] and I'm going to put weapons specialists in every squad.
[00:13:46] So if they're rolling in trucks,
[00:13:50] and I got a machine gun on a truck,
[00:13:53] then that squad can man their own vehicles, right?
[00:13:57] And they're on a dam, perimeter post with a 240 g of,
[00:14:02] they don't have to pull a Marine from weapons platoon out of the rotation to man the dam gun.
[00:14:10] So I did, what was at the time, probably the most unpopular thing in the history of Kilo Company.
[00:14:21] And when the word got out,
[00:14:24] I was going to reorganize the company, the NCOs just threw a fucking shit fit.
[00:14:28] What about Alpachand, Commander?
[00:14:30] What did you put down in Commander?
[00:14:32] I didn't need to tell him until my good friend George Treffen with the operations officer.
[00:14:40] Poles are inside when they just hate Trent.
[00:14:43] I hear you reorganize the company.
[00:14:46] Yeah, sir.
[00:14:48] This is a teleboss about that?
[00:14:52] No.
[00:14:55] You think you ought to?
[00:14:58] There's a little one right here.
[00:15:00] Yes, sir.
[00:15:01] Yes, sir.
[00:15:02] So I got the first shot and I said, look,
[00:15:08] you're going to dump the company in a fucking pile.
[00:15:11] Okay.
[00:15:13] At the time, with the 30 new Marines,
[00:15:16] we had about 120, some Marines slated to deploy.
[00:15:20] 120, two trigger pullers was all I was going to have.
[00:15:24] So you divide that equally amongst four rifle plumes that give you 12, 10 man squads.
[00:15:34] So I want you to prenatalist of every Marine in the company.
[00:15:42] Sardin on down, we had two sardons at the time.
[00:15:46] A dozen corporals in all the rest lands, go up a blue.
[00:15:50] And you're going to hold NFL style draft.
[00:15:55] And to make this fair, Keto 1 will get first pick first round.
[00:16:02] Keto 4 will get fourth pick first round.
[00:16:05] For the second round, Keto 4 will get first pick.
[00:16:09] And we'll just go back and forth.
[00:16:11] You're going to fill in squallators first.
[00:16:14] In far team leaders, then weapon specialists in every fucking squad,
[00:16:17] and then fill in the rest of the far teams.
[00:16:22] And a time when we had two to ten, today Fleming, Keto 1.
[00:16:28] And Jay Johnson had Keto 2, but our Keto 3,
[00:16:34] we tuned the commander, had rotated it up.
[00:16:45] And the weapon tuned commander had fully dug his exo, really self-seal.
[00:16:48] So, Fog was governed down as the two commander for Keto 4.
[00:16:53] And the he became the Keto 4, Keto 1,
[00:16:57] so now wasn't just Keto 1 through 3.
[00:16:59] and whiskey he was killed for. So fourth pick first round he picked a couple
[00:17:07] Travis Trooper, wrestler at Iowa and...
[00:17:11] Good call. Right? And then he was another one of my saw gunners that I had through
[00:17:18] the Ohio one, so I knew he was a solid guy. Leaders of your eyes and everything
[00:17:22] awesome. And then first pick second round,
[00:17:26] third pick, I know three, thirty one machine guy.
[00:17:29] Kupadana.
[00:17:31] What was that based on? Well during the that five months that we had, I had the
[00:17:38] weapons betune, so I got to work with Jason Dunham and I got to see his
[00:17:42] leadership and the kid just had that it factor. And I think the biggest thing
[00:17:46] about him was, well one of the ability could laugh at himself, but the thing is I
[00:17:51] think his leadership was so awesome because he would tailor it to each individual
[00:17:55] Marine. We all know he can have a certain style of leadership, but I really like
[00:17:59] the way he did that and it took me almost three years at the school of
[00:18:03] infantry from Corporal Disargent to get that because I had 50 different
[00:18:07] cycles, so I could play good cop, bad cop, I can experience, but one of the
[00:18:11] biggest things I found out even with brand new Marines, if you give them a
[00:18:15] reason why or you tell them what's going on, they work that much better for
[00:18:19] you, so if this is with a bunch of boots that are just out of boot camp and
[00:18:24] they perform that much better for you, then imagine what that's going to do for
[00:18:27] a bunch of fleet lands corporals and corporals. And I just liked his style and I
[00:18:32] know I was taking a chance because I even got laughed up by some peers because
[00:18:36] we had a company full of combat veterans and they're like, oh well you use your
[00:18:41] second pick to pick Jason Dunham, a guy from Security Forces, they had no
[00:18:45] combat experience, but I'm like that's one of my picks, that's who I want is a
[00:18:49] squad leader. And one of the great things that they did though they did spread out
[00:18:54] the talent because what they did is Kilo 1 through 4, they put the senior
[00:18:58] Platoon Commander in Kilo 1 and then all the way and then then Kilo 4 had the
[00:19:02] boot Platoon Commander, the junior sky and then for the staff and seals we
[00:19:07] did the opposite, brand new or the junior's one was in Kilo 1 and I was the
[00:19:11] senior staff in CO so I had Kilo 4. Yeah and that was good, but also with the
[00:19:16] draft one or the big things, the Kilo 6, I forgot to mention, one of the
[00:19:21] nights we were almost going to do it at night but we were working on godly hours
[00:19:24] training everything and I'm like you know I need a couple hours for this
[00:19:28] because myself and Gunney Walker took it seriously, I have the time staffs
[00:19:33] our Walker, I went home and I basically took I got a company roster and I
[00:19:38] put everybody into 4 categories from must have great average hell no and then
[00:19:50] I evenly did this and I put that and then even once they were in these categories
[00:19:54] I ranked them 1 through 30 or whatever so when I went in there I was ready
[00:19:59] with all my picks I was going right down the list and then boom then I had like
[00:20:03] little triangles or squares for saw Gunners at 0331s and 51s and restructuring
[00:20:10] the company at the time it was kind of like ground breaking but it was by far
[00:20:14] one of the best decisions we ever did and me spending three hours that night my
[00:20:18] wife was mad at me doing that that set up the foundation for having a
[00:20:23] great cartoon because who gets to pick their own cartoon and I got to
[00:20:27] experience a lot of these guys and real world combat ops and real world training
[00:20:32] so I felt very fortunate and yeah yeah it's kind of like an unfair advantage
[00:20:37] for you because you knew the guys you knew the guys better than the officers
[00:20:43] would right and then also with the other opportune commanders or I knew like
[00:20:50] their two top squad leaders too so that you know their picks would be so I
[00:20:53] wouldn't even put those guys on my board because I anticipated them get
[00:20:56] taken their first one two or three guys and so it just worked out really well
[00:21:01] for myself personally the butsoan and then also for the company in far with the
[00:21:07] strategic maneuvers out there yeah well watch out for those staff stars just
[00:21:11] they're gonna make it happen well tell you it was impressive because the two
[00:21:17] guys who took that draft the most seriously were furg and longer and you could
[00:21:24] tell when you when the first person put the final roster in front of me you
[00:21:28] could tell who had put the most working to it and as a testament to to this
[00:21:34] man's sense of commitment and responsibility you know his degree of ownership
[00:21:40] to put that much time into it and we didn't we didn't have any goddamn time
[00:21:47] I made this decision on Wednesday Thursday right of our second to last week
[00:21:56] of training and the we pulled the trigger on Friday right so by the time the
[00:22:04] Marines went on there two weeks Christmas Lea blog the new squad
[00:22:10] organizations had been announced but the first time that those squad leaders
[00:22:14] stood in front of their Marines was on the second in January but March Air Force
[00:22:19] base on the first day of the last five days of a time level training that we
[00:22:24] were gonna have before we find a deploy so we accepted a degree of risk in it
[00:22:29] but in the end getting that spread of talent experience leadership and
[00:22:37] fresh blood spreading it evenly across the company I felt quite confident
[00:22:45] going into OF2 that I could plug any rifle squad into a mission and they
[00:22:50] be able to pull it off yeah and you kind of rip the band it off just like hey
[00:22:55] we're just gonna do this we gotta do it we got a true lesser otherwise you
[00:22:58] wait till in country now if you're looking around going damn this isn't
[00:23:01] working away it's supposed to work and I need to start moving people around
[00:23:04] and that's infinitely worse than just getting it done so so Bill and Kelly you
[00:23:10] guys were you guys immediately in Jason squad is that how that worked when I
[00:23:15] first arrived I was in first platoon for the first batiny ops that lasted
[00:23:19] five days for Christmas Lea so no I I'd seen him but I didn't know who he was I
[00:23:26] didn't know who Bill was I only knew the guys I showed up with so you're
[00:23:35] keeping your mouth shut your ears open I was really good I keep my mouth shut my
[00:23:38] ears open do what you told so I got I mean I got I got put in charge of a
[00:23:42] couple of the other boots to make sure they're square to wait when I got
[00:23:44] there my most memorable memory actually of when we first showed up is I met
[00:23:49] first certain tempatin at times and at the time Captain Gibbs comes over and
[00:23:56] addresses us and I just remember it's the weirdest memory he stood with the sun
[00:24:00] directly as back I know if I can ideally look like at all I couldn't I couldn't
[00:24:05] see him I couldn't see features I couldn't see anything but if you ever
[00:24:08] met this man when he talks you listen and I just remember like the presence he
[00:24:13] had I was like I'll go to work with this guy I like this guy so and what do you
[00:24:19] think about the reorg Bill?
[00:24:21] The honest I think I think Carbohol and I were we had choice words for ourselves
[00:24:29] that we kept to ourselves but in the end trusted South Sergeant first and we were
[00:24:36] hey no I can I can elaborate on that too because if you think you got these two
[00:24:41] guys that have been through nine months and they know the drill and then they
[00:24:46] got this brand new security force corporal coming in and I saw that there's
[00:24:50] some animosity and obviously if they were senior to him then these guys by all
[00:24:53] right what I had that but Jason had the rank and everything and I saw the
[00:24:56] leadership so I had to take that chance and it was weird to see the bond
[00:25:00] because the two fire team leaders like I said they're a little but hurt a little
[00:25:05] bit about that but then the way Jason eventually won them over and everything is
[00:25:09] just smile as leadership he just did that to people yeah that's a tough spot to
[00:25:14] get put into you're you got no combat experience you're rolling in here and
[00:25:19] you're gonna start taking over for guys that do have combat experience that
[00:25:23] certainly think that they deserve that role that's a tough one one of the
[00:25:29] things that Tinka brought up about the reorganization like from a brand new
[00:25:35] boot who doesn't know anything as soon as the reorganization happened one of
[00:25:41] the side effects was I learned how to shoot machine guns because I was surrounded
[00:25:44] by a couple of machine guns I learned about mortars I learned about demo you
[00:25:48] know by the time I deployed I had done him had grilled me so hard about machine
[00:25:53] guns I could clear and operated 240 I understood like the basics to shooting a
[00:25:58] 50 cal if I had to in a pinch you know like I I had more knowledge than I was
[00:26:02] trained for at the school of military so like that reorganization really started
[00:26:06] to cross-breed us in everything and I wasn't just no 311 I was more of an
[00:26:09] O3 everything because I could function in more than one situation with one
[00:26:13] weapon yeah that's that's that's good across the board so so you guys did that
[00:26:20] reorganuary?
[00:26:23] um right after leave well before we both had triggered on it the day before they
[00:26:31] went on two weeks of leave for Christmas got it the first time those squads
[00:26:38] stood the new squads stood together was on day one train on secondary
[00:26:43] got it and then you guys come back when you guys come back you said you do one
[00:26:48] more battalion big battalion exercise that was it second to the sixth yeah
[00:26:54] and then just it's loadout time because you guys were deployed in February and
[00:27:01] did you guys know where you're going on to point it to?
[00:27:03] yeah what was the what was the kind of thoughts had now there how much did you
[00:27:09] guys know about it?
[00:27:10] we started you know to outkind that's where you're getting told you're going
[00:27:16] out to outkind yeah the battalion was already leaning to a George Treffler
[00:27:22] was the operator's officer he had to head lean to come he'd turn the
[00:27:24] march up and he's hands down the most comprehensively proficient professional
[00:27:30] I've ever been honored to serve with and so he was getting as much
[00:27:38] intelligence it could from the cavalry squadron that we were turned over with
[00:27:43] first to the third ACR was up in all kinds by the time we got there they had
[00:27:46] been in country for 11th freaking miles and they were operating out of their
[00:27:54] that base up on the Syrian border if you say about and then their cavalry
[00:28:01] headquarters was at the train station in all kind which was about you know 28
[00:28:08] miles southeast of the the border post you say so we knew that things were
[00:28:16] going to hell on hand basket up there and across Iraq is a whole that if you
[00:28:22] were listening to the news reports I'd listen to impure everyone
[00:28:26] coming in and if you're paying attention that you knew that this this was
[00:28:32] going to be a wild west and it wasn't going to be the same kind of environment
[00:28:37] that we had experienced at the end of the pushup you know that in the last three
[00:28:41] months of OF1 and it really hit me one day I was I was coming in listening to
[00:28:48] impure news and Normie rifle company commander had been killed that week and
[00:28:55] they hear that on the radio known that a rifle company commander is killed
[00:28:59] that you know that this is going to be a different fucking show altogether.
[00:29:06] What's your deployment the actual logistics of the deployment you guys are you
[00:29:10] guys are flying over? Yeah so we flew in I went ahead of the
[00:29:16] batai and main body was our company gunny liaf on tech you who was killed on the
[00:29:23] fourth volumes you know and over with the rest of the other company commanders
[00:29:30] and company gunny's to get things ready so we we went into all kind we were
[00:29:38] there probably a week I think before the batai and to mean body started
[00:29:43] echelon in flew into Kuwait and then trucked all the way up from Kuwait so
[00:29:51] these guys these guys were pretty tired by the time they got up there but so we
[00:29:58] fell in on the train station we knew that Kilo was going to be taking over for
[00:30:07] a fox troop I think they had their air responsibility was roughly same as
[00:30:15] the one we were taking over which was crablo and saw the sprawling
[00:30:21] settlements east of the border town of Useba so we went in and started a
[00:30:31] turnover with that cavalry troop and they ran us through some basic things like
[00:30:42] just basic patrolling through the zone doing vehicle searches how to
[00:30:50] cordon off a road conduct vehicle searches hasty how searches whatever in the
[00:30:58] process of that turnover I had to give up to the teams that I knew that
[00:31:07] was coming but I had four rifle battlers right but I just organized for this
[00:31:14] fight and then I was told that I was given up two of them two the batai main
[00:31:20] effort which was lean the company in Huseba so that was a batai main effort so I
[00:31:28] gave them my best putt to commander they Fleming Kilo one and then to make a
[00:31:33] vehicle I just said all right Kilo ones going then I'll send Kilo four to go with them
[00:31:39] which gave me Kilo two and Kilo three and during that turnover how long were
[00:31:50] they gonna be you know take on to this other to the southern company
[00:31:56] ten-kilo Lopez promised that I could have Kilo four back after a month but
[00:32:01] Rick Ganon and Lima company he needed as much as as possible that that first
[00:32:06] month just to get to feet wet and get established and this was because they were
[00:32:10] gonna be rolling in and trying to this is in in Huseba in Huseba and so Huseba was
[00:32:17] the center gravity for the batai neo right so and and it's the border crossing
[00:32:24] point with serious so they were determined to be the batai main effort and so
[00:32:31] he just loaded them with as much manpower as possible in order to make the
[00:32:37] transition as seamless as possible when we took over the A.L. from the army
[00:32:43] because you know anytime there's a unit turnover in country the mouchefuckin
[00:32:49] know right and and you're gonna get tested and so I crone knew that going into
[00:32:55] it so he wanted to make sure that that Lima had as much as it's possible so
[00:32:59] they could go in as heavy as possible for establish a strong presence and
[00:33:05] get things going without getting bloodied to that so for the first month
[00:33:09] the in Huseba they ran platoon size patrols they didn't run squat patrols
[00:33:18] the lightest unit that ever stepped in design was up the fucking platoon meanwhile
[00:33:24] in my zone I had fucking six squads to hold down the whole yo it's and so we were
[00:33:33] rolling in the squat size patrols from the outside so what were some of these
[00:33:37] patrols for you guys were going in what were you guys doing a lot of it was just
[00:33:42] getting familiar with the area and then because we did have platoon we do the
[00:33:45] satellite patrolings were even though we were going the same direction we
[00:33:48] maybe have one squat on the street the other squat on the streets still keep
[00:33:51] in visual eye to eye and having phase lines and checking in and I don't know
[00:33:56] I was just getting to know the a.L. and I remember that it was it was quiet
[00:34:02] for a while because we just relieved an army mechanized unit and now you
[00:34:07] got Marines boots on the ground so you could tell like insurgents were
[00:34:10] taking back a little bit and nothing happened for a few days and then all
[00:34:14] the sun had just started and just the kinetics just kept flowing and it was like
[00:34:18] cat and mouse games back and forth now we're talking early oh four so one
[00:34:26] thing that's interesting is they were IEDs but they weren't as bad as they got
[00:34:31] I mean they weren't as bad as they got you know five you know six you know seven
[00:34:35] I mean they just got worse and worse so at this time you're still you're
[00:34:39] I mean obviously like I said I'm not saying there wasn't any ideas but was that
[00:34:43] would you would you consider rolling out into town your main threat was IEDs or
[00:34:47] was it you know a friend or just small arms fire I would say it's a little bit
[00:34:52] of both but you're absolutely right some of them were buried too deep or
[00:34:56] backwards I know on the battle the 17th myself and Carbohol there was one
[00:35:01] between us and one of somebody kicked the blast and cap out and we heard
[00:35:06] it was a little small pop and like one of those pucker factors but yeah and
[00:35:10] middle of a battalion attack to clear the town and so you guys are rolling in
[00:35:17] how often what's your uptempo like I don't you want to take that one bill
[00:35:22] our uptempo meaning like how often were you guys doing ops we were doing them
[00:35:34] it was about two a day six hours each about a day in the night patrol yeah
[00:35:39] each patrol is about six hours because we'd go from we'd go through the whole town
[00:35:43] and back well another thing that was crazy is you know you have a set mission
[00:35:48] and then something would happen you would have to secure a vehicle that got hit
[00:35:52] by an ID or you'd get this new flag go to go to this house that you heard could have been a
[00:35:57] torture chamber had insurgents so I remember going out there and then a four-hour
[00:36:03] patrol will turn into an eight-hour patrol and I remember at the time I was just 28
[00:36:07] but I remember my back was killing me because I had extra large sappy plates and you're
[00:36:11] walking all the time and later on we learned that from the the war fighting lab came out
[00:36:17] we were attached back to kiel they came and weighed us and I remember I was about two 25 at the time
[00:36:24] but me and my first sergeant or one of the two only Marines that were over 300 pounds with full combat
[00:36:29] frags and all that stuff and we'd laugh about it because at the time you know that some of
[00:36:33] those anti-tank mines you just need 300 pounds of pressure so I'm like down I mean first
[00:36:38] start you pass that threshold it's six steps on it you'd be good it could jump up and down
[00:36:43] but re-entable then we had to worry about it. Great. Good. Your question about the evolution of
[00:36:51] the ID it was it was fascinating to come in there and see that the the ID threat the first the
[00:37:00] third was dealing with 82 mortar rounds one five two artillery shells all usually primed with
[00:37:11] that court this Soviet style red that court and so when the moves were first employees they didn't
[00:37:18] know enough to bury the fucking dead court so they were rolling into town and they'd see this
[00:37:24] string of red right coming out of the desert and terminating at the roadside and like oh gee what
[00:37:30] you know maybe we shouldn't drive over that but you know by the time we left the it had already
[00:37:37] evolved into command that the uh not cell phones but courtless phones kind of courtless phone
[00:37:46] you'd have in your house right on V-tech or whatever um but when we came in there the moves were
[00:37:54] used to dealing with an armored threat and the thing that scared the soldiers the most from the
[00:38:02] cavalry was a 62 millimeter Chinese rock right the thing it showed up in his own several months
[00:38:10] earlier and the moves were uh fixing these things to walls they would they would mortar in
[00:38:21] around this thing so all you could see is a circle right and they'd set it up about
[00:38:27] base of the turret height and way for vehicle to roll by and there are poking holes in main
[00:38:34] battle tanks at least in the end once I had not said the other of a Bradley fighting vehicle
[00:38:42] so you already restricts shitless of these things and I remember they put it they had a display in
[00:38:48] in the makeshift shell haul there in the time Cp of I different types of IDs that they had
[00:38:55] encountered during their two tour which was really instructive for us because we're he's got
[00:38:59] get eyes on him right so one of those was a Chinese rocket they're like holy fucking Jesus
[00:39:05] you know we're rolling out on V's and the day the day of the relief from place when it was
[00:39:12] finally effective and the first the third was rolling out I climbed up onto the Bradley
[00:39:18] from the Fox troop commander who was my counterpart during the turnover
[00:39:21] I took a shaggy sand and thank you for the turnover and he looks behind me at our row of
[00:39:30] humvies which were soft skin humvies we had four up armards that the first the thirds
[00:39:40] organic self propelled battery had to use it turned in their self propelled howitzers for humvies
[00:39:46] once they went into the end of OF one and thank God to give us four of them right
[00:39:53] so we spread them out amongst the Italian so four came to Kilo and the the soft skin humvies my
[00:40:00] Marines were in the process of strapping used army roadwheels that they had scavenged from the
[00:40:08] fucking scrap heap and strapping those with cargo straps to the side of our humvies so he had some armor
[00:40:17] and he looks at that and he looks at me and he says I don't know how you're gonna f**k
[00:40:21] into it so that's how we roll you got no choice right and within a few weeks
[00:40:32] I try and he's rocking this period because I needed that 152 82 mortar round they do just fine
[00:40:41] and they had their hands full of uh and I tank myes and they put those to good effect
[00:40:51] they learned to plan them upside down see could get a rear roll strike on a humvie instead of a
[00:40:56] frownless strike because you know if you if you get a frownless strike in humvie with a mine it's
[00:41:02] gonna kill to be a correct but most likely you know you got guys may get a broken foot of roping
[00:41:10] leg but if you get a rear roll strike you're gonna kill at least one rain and probably two
[00:41:18] so they figured that shit out and on that last day of our turnover with Charlie cut me one seven
[00:41:25] for certain tempered and stepped on one of those damn things left his size 14 fucking
[00:41:33] blueprint right in middle of it thank god it was planned upside down he'd been there a while
[00:41:41] but uh this land's corbal engineer comes up he hanks the helmet off
[00:41:46] gets down there face first with this fucking anti tank mine breaks out his K bar
[00:41:51] starts on earth in it and he says I'll be damned I said what do you got I said don't tell me
[00:41:59] it's upside down right he goes the things fucking upside down it's an adjusting angle hard
[00:42:05] cat read figured that out about five months into the deployment
[00:42:11] would you guys did you guys prefer to be in vehicles or on foot foot definitely on foot
[00:42:19] well we we had a unique situation because we were attached to the main effort
[00:42:23] Lima company for a while so we were used to patrolling on foot and then we had great
[00:42:28] dispersion of stuff then going back to the vehicles it took a while because yeah we
[00:42:34] wasn't comfortable I mean in our body we we didn't like being vehicles yeah I mean because
[00:42:41] you just don't have any control you know I mean I was damn vehicle commander and I didn't feel like
[00:42:46] I had any control because you just can't see what's happening fast enough you can't see an IED
[00:42:50] fast enough whatever and so I always felt and we pretty much did everything we could to
[00:42:57] take the vehicles to where we needed to take them to and then get out of those things and walk
[00:43:01] was that the same thing you guys were feeling yeah we we'd get dropped off we could get we'd get
[00:43:07] dropped off and they'd go and all right well they go back and support QRF or whatever we
[00:43:16] wait to go get us or they go check out another spot over on the other side of town while
[00:43:22] were you satellite to them got it what'd you like better though build did you like better
[00:43:26] sitting in the home v-way on the start my idea that's what I was felt like one the thing
[00:43:32] you had for us we weren't rolling in a breaker four to a humpy we weren't high backs so in the back
[00:43:38] of the humpy there was six of us seven crammed in there you know like doing it and you're just
[00:43:46] you can't drive slow because then you're an easy target so you drive fast and you're what can
[00:43:50] you identify going 4550 fast enough to stop to not hit it and so I always preferred to be on the ground
[00:43:56] if I got more control yeah so we came up with a method of employment that involved what I
[00:44:04] came to call split sections so we'd have two contracts escorting two high backs right so it's
[00:44:12] you you put a an up armoured up front because it had armor if you were gonna hit 90 and then
[00:44:19] two two damn high backs and one rifle squad which was organized into two far teams
[00:44:25] could be didn't have large enough squads have three far teams right so you'd put a far team in each
[00:44:31] thick and by the time we were in country long enough we figured out you take your third squad
[00:44:40] and those guys are gonna man the vehicle itself they'll drive it they'll vehicle command it
[00:44:45] and they'll gun it we got two 40s eventually mounted on the tops of these things and then
[00:44:51] that left you with two full dismounted rifle fire teams one in each truck right and then you had
[00:45:01] another gun truck in trail so you get where you're going the fucking squad dismounts and then
[00:45:09] those four trucks could satellite around the dismounts to keep the enemy guessing while these
[00:45:16] guys did their work what was the how long are to take for you guys to take casualties rolling in there
[00:45:27] you remember the times first casualties were on sand panties day fireclaw
[00:45:36] so you guys got there in February in the same paddies day as what end of March middle of March end of March
[00:45:41] the actual effective transfer of authority day I think was the damn I think the first week of March
[00:45:53] maybe it's saying it wouldn't long before we took our first casualties
[00:46:00] cat red took an idea of the checkpoint 51 in my zone
[00:46:03] Marines were still rolling around with the windows down we took a hit to the elbow another
[00:46:11] Marine took strappin all through the window into the back was like the gunner did right and then
[00:46:19] he's either the same day or right after that that
[00:46:25] Potenticus first KIA two killed in a rear row mine strike in the HK triangle which was the western
[00:46:33] end of Kilo's zone right up against the waddy that delineated the eastern edge of who
[00:46:41] Sabah and Lee McCutney's own so HK was this sort of no man's land between mine and Kilo or
[00:46:50] Lee was but it belonged to me but at the end of the day but you know that deployment
[00:46:58] the vast majority of the battines casualties had occurred in the HK
[00:47:07] Kelly how old are you at this point I turned 21 on April 2nd
[00:47:13] so like a couple so in country you got 21 I got pulled out of my uh I got pulled out my bed by a head first
[00:47:23] to my sleeping bag and I was given my 21 happy birthday
[00:47:30] and what do you think at this point now you know how much did it change your perception
[00:47:34] perception or perspective went all of a sudden you know that the battalion has taken casualties
[00:47:46] I came from a military family I mean I got my grandpa was in the will work two in the navy
[00:47:52] my dad and my uncle were in Vietnam cousin in desert storm and then I have law enforcement
[00:48:00] everywhere so I grew up with an understanding of service and when I joined the Marines we were
[00:48:11] already in country casualties were happens and my crew to make no bones about it when I told
[00:48:16] I wanted to be in the military um he's like you do know you're gonna deploy I was like yeah I'm
[00:48:21] well aware I didn't go in blind you know there's some guys that they joined the Marines and they're
[00:48:27] like I don't want to go to Iraq I'm like what a fuck did you join what's the news pick up a newspaper
[00:48:34] so I knew I knew what I was getting myself into it and that never prepares you for it but luckily
[00:48:41] I was surrounded by such good leadership you know I was only for four years I had three different
[00:48:47] command sets and my first one was of the highest quality literally and I never I always felt
[00:48:56] all the taken care of and at east through it all because I believed in the guys that were above me
[00:49:04] it made it easier if in a really weird sense I always felt calm I never went out nervous
[00:49:12] the brotherhood of the Marines it's like you're going out and you know that every single guy
[00:49:17] you're going out is gonna do everything and they're power to make sure you make a home and make it back
[00:49:20] um in the confidence and calm you know I I never felt uneasy I was never scared I was just there
[00:49:29] to do a job as spray to the core exactly yes thank you Phil how old were you at this point Bill
[00:49:38] 22 22 get some you know he talking to a lot of these guys that have brought on that were going
[00:49:44] into the most horrible situations whether it was Taroa, Guadalcanat wherever you know there's
[00:49:52] uh there's something that the young man has which I think we all know which is it's gonna happen
[00:49:58] to someone else like hey people are gonna get hurt people are gonna get wounded people are gonna get
[00:50:02] killed not gonna be me and and I was just telling you guys about Dean Lad who I just had on the podcast
[00:50:07] who is Guadalcanal, Taroa, Sipan, and Tinian and he's never even thought about you know he was like oh yeah
[00:50:15] I'm sure some we're gonna take casualties as we cross the beach to Guadalcanal and I'll try and help
[00:50:21] those other guys as much as I can because it's not happening to me so and then and I know you guys know this too
[00:50:29] I had guys and I'm sure you guys knew guys that thought they were the one that was
[00:50:34] absolutely gonna be the one that gets hit like that was in their mind and God bless them
[00:50:40] because I don't know how they did it day after day but they'd go yeah you know it was the guy
[00:50:44] that was going I got a bad feeling about this one man I got a bad feeling you're gonna be okay bro
[00:50:49] it's gonna be alright they always strapped it on and it got through helmet back on you know but to me
[00:50:56] it seemed like people fell into those camps for the most part and I'm sure you know
[00:50:59] occasion some of those us just you know we're taking casualties I could be one of them but for the most
[00:51:03] part I think people are either hey probably gonna happen to someone else or it's gonna happen to me
[00:51:11] so how do that's kind of what I see. Jai go I think you're like 100% right and uh I've been
[00:51:16] fortunate or unfortunate to see combat in my early 20s with Somalia at 28 and Iraq and then 38
[00:51:24] and Afghanistan and I think as a young 20s you feel invincible and you don't think it's gonna happen to you
[00:51:30] or you just operate and you're there you want to be the one to kick the door and you want to be
[00:51:34] then clear the room and then at 28 I started leading more Marines and I become you understand
[00:51:43] your mortality and what we're doing is not normal and you know fire and stuff and explosions
[00:51:49] and then when I was a company first start for two one then I just wanted to be that father figure
[00:51:54] and take care of mom all you all these young Marines they just want to see that grizzly
[00:51:58] that combat and then you know but you know it's not what it's cracked up to be and that grizzly
[00:52:03] power for all can fight back yeah I definitely from my perspective it was always hey I'm
[00:52:10] worried about me I'm worried about my guys you know and and I was always in a leadership position
[00:52:14] because I was a team commander I was a task a team commander so for me it was always I'm worried
[00:52:18] about my guys you know well I can for example the right I mean I was 21 I was on the uh I never
[00:52:25] thought it was gonna be me bandwagon and I mean that's why I frequently went ran point
[00:52:29] I was like I want to be the first one I want to be in the lead I'm gonna be checked for ideas
[00:52:33] something happens it's gonna shoot me I know how fast I am I can get by in a wall you know
[00:52:38] I never ever never crossed my mind I didn't even you know really weird way even with all the
[00:52:43] casualties that happen I didn't think it was an option yeah I think that at least for my experience
[00:52:52] but I got this sense from other Marines as casualties started ramping up the Lima was
[00:53:01] was taken the vast majority of the brunt and I was probably technically incorrect in that
[00:53:06] statement about the HK casualties um I had to been more than you say about proper but anyway
[00:53:14] the as they started happening on a regular basis at least for me it was no longer a question
[00:53:22] of if just question to win so I eventually just decided well it's gonna happen right I mean
[00:53:30] Rick Ganon Lima Company commander and for the Marines killed an opening stages of the battle for
[00:53:36] who save on the 17th three days after Donna was hit you know company commander gone just like that
[00:53:43] so it wasn't a question of if it was gonna happen so at least for me I just resolved that it was
[00:53:53] gonna happen so once I accepted that it was easier to operate because then you didn't have that
[00:54:00] uncertainty about whether or not it would happen so it's just like well when it comes to
[00:54:04] counts it doesn't even fucking do about it so it's just time to get the same done and I think there's
[00:54:10] I would say to a large degree a an acceptance amongst the Marines because we didn't pull back
[00:54:22] was one day we didn't fucking operate in that seven month deployment one day and that was after
[00:54:30] we lost three Marines on the that damn fifth July it's that the one day we did not send a
[00:54:37] patrol on the zone yeah no I know for us certainly rolling into a body in 2006 you know there was
[00:54:45] there was memorial services going on every other day every two days for soldiers and Marines
[00:54:53] that were getting killed I mean it was it was that and so much like you're talking about
[00:54:59] I knew every time we rolled out the gate or every time my guys rolled out the gate
[00:55:04] there's a decent chance that something bad was gonna happen and you well all you can do is do
[00:55:13] it everything you can to mitigate that risk but there's no possible way to mitigate all the risk
[00:55:20] that doesn't happen even even if you say you know what we're gonna stay in camp they're you're
[00:55:26] gonna get murdered so my attitude was de-falte aggressive we're gonna go and take the fight
[00:55:31] to the enemy and that was certainly the attitude of the troops that we're in Ravadi was
[00:55:36] we're not gonna sit back and wait for we're gonna take the fight to the enemy and and I believe
[00:55:40] that's the best thing you can do you have to I think and the most inspiring thing to me was
[00:55:52] watching these Marines day in and day out every fucking day despite the danger despite the
[00:56:01] casualties despite what times I'm sure seemed like a ridiculous mission despite all of that
[00:56:09] the cold resolve to do the job and keep each other safe in the process was humbling
[00:56:21] American sons out there devoid of any political context
[00:56:27] what they were doing they were doing for each other yeah it's also interesting to think about
[00:56:35] when you say American sons look Americans come from all different kinds of backgrounds but
[00:56:43] the fact of the matter is when you live in America you are a privileged human being like you
[00:56:48] have opportunity hey even if you're the most unmotivated person in America you still can live a
[00:56:56] pretty decent life when you compare it to that of a grunt overseas living in some outstations
[00:57:05] somewhere off MREs and crappy bottled water shittening a damn outhouse burning I mean just the whole
[00:57:14] nine yards so when when these you know it's not like hey people join the military maybe there's
[00:57:20] that idea hey I'm trying to get out of my hometown which I know I certainly did hey I want to get
[00:57:23] out of my hometown I want to go somewhere I want to be in the world but you're signing up to to
[00:57:30] put all that American privilege on hold you're going to put it on hold and you're going to go
[00:57:37] out there and you're going to live in horrible situations with the threat of being wounded and killed
[00:57:43] and that's the way it is and so yeah when you see that and when you see those service members
[00:57:50] rolling out like that day after day after day and that's you know I've talked about this
[00:57:58] in Ramadi you you might remember this Kelly but they had the the vehicle graveyard the vehicle
[00:58:05] graveyard of all these blown up vehicles was on the road that headed to the main gate so when you
[00:58:11] were driving to go out into town you were driving past destroyed not just destroyed homies seven done
[00:58:18] seven tons um tanks that they dragged back in so that was your relève with your little sendoff
[00:58:25] every time you left the gate at Canberra Modi oh there's 75 or 100 vehicles that have been destroyed
[00:58:30] and you know that each one of those meant some level of casualties when you know I got real
[00:58:36] because there's the two EOD vehicles that were in the graveyard that had the V barrels oh yeah
[00:58:41] Bearcats I think they're yeah yeah yeah those those big mine resistant vehicles they were
[00:58:47] did they blew one of those things in half so yeah that's uh that's what you're signing up for
[00:58:56] and yet American sign up for it voluntarily every single day and then they go out there and do the work
[00:59:03] what was the morale overall strong that's what I'm hearing strong
[00:59:13] it's resolved there's just in my assessment just fucking resolved we're in this we're not
[00:59:20] getting out of it right we got a fucking job to do we're gonna get it done we're not gonna let
[00:59:26] up the enemy wants us to fucking take a break they want us to feel sorry for ourselves turn our
[00:59:34] fucking backs for a minute and we're not gonna fucking give it to him period they will not win
[00:59:41] well I don't know well we'll call this a a boots perspective but a really weird thing happens
[00:59:48] bad shit starts happening you got them to troll you get shot at and I EOD goes off doesn't take you out
[00:59:55] there's one situation where an RPG hit the vehicle to guide in arm it what are you doing
[01:00:00] to get back to base you and your buddies you sit around you fucking off about it it's a joke
[01:00:06] can you off about it and I've told that to a lot of people and people look at you like
[01:00:10] you're crazy but the reality to it is you do that because by making it a joke it's not serious
[01:00:17] and now you can go out and do it again tomorrow yeah we actually have video of one of my
[01:00:23] small elements was out in Ramadi got to big gunfight they were with some Iraqi soldiers one Iraqi soldier
[01:00:29] got wounded one Iraqi soldier got killed called in the tanks the tanks went in escorted him put
[01:00:35] down fire cast of act the home on yards as the patrol and back in one of the Overwatch to seal
[01:00:39] Overwatch positions was videoing them and as they're coming in like World War II style in a column
[01:00:46] in between two tanks and their their patrol and back and the video the video cameras like
[01:00:52] tracking them and you can hear the the Paltoon Chief Tonya Frattie looks up at the camera
[01:00:59] and yells everything's a big joke that's how so so to your sentiment exactly yes if you take
[01:01:07] everything too seriously you're gonna go crazy so there's that's another thing that can't be
[01:01:12] stopped the American resolve can't be stopped and the American sense of humor that he stopped
[01:01:19] no doubt about it all right let's roll into let's roll into April 14th
[01:01:28] so April 14th this is pretty much what do we deal with another day at the races for you guys what
[01:01:35] you're looking at nothing abnormal it seems like pretty standard type of operations that you guys
[01:01:41] were doing at the time yes the only difference is that because now we were back with our
[01:01:46] Kilo company proper so we're back with six and and the way we looked at it is instead of
[01:01:50] walking outside the gate to work we get a ride to work and then we'd do our patrols but yeah that's
[01:01:55] the only thing that was different that day and squad size vice-patum size what you were saying yeah yes
[01:02:02] oh so now you now you got into well Kilo in our zone we didn't have enough as to roll out
[01:02:10] in the pertune because I only had two rifle tunes right so for the first six weeks
[01:02:15] I was pumping out at least a patrol a day for the first four weeks we ran for patrols a day
[01:02:21] with six squads and they they were smoked every marine in the in the company was sick
[01:02:30] it was like a freaking sick ward in that warehouse it was heartbreaking at night to listen to all
[01:02:38] those Marines coughing and hacking and not fucking sleep and and no one that I was going to
[01:02:44] send them out on the next fucking patrol regardless of what state they're in so we had no choice
[01:02:51] but to roll in squad size patrol so Kilo four actually got a bit of a break in coming out of
[01:02:58] who's safe because now the up tempo may be the same but now instead of half-ended send the whole
[01:03:07] damn patoon out now you know you could rotate it and do one squad at a time so the baton had just
[01:03:16] graduated the first class of Iraqi policemen from this police academy that 10
[01:03:24] criminal Lopez thought up we had an attached in people tune and he understood that policing by
[01:03:32] the Iraqis was the key to the whole thing right yeah that that's some impressive that's
[01:03:37] some impressive force I right there because I was thinking about that when I was reading this book
[01:03:43] this idea of the Iraqi police became a national program in 2006 before that it had become
[01:03:50] something called it was something called desert protector which was sort of the same thing like
[01:03:54] we're gonna get a homegrown kids young men to help police and a lot of that from what I've been
[01:04:02] told came from alchim when the push happened through alchim but that was in 2005 that the big push
[01:04:09] happened alchim was an operation manager and those Marines got civilians that came up and said hey
[01:04:14] there's bad guys over there hey there's bad guys over there and the idea was okay let's get
[01:04:18] that let's let's hire those people so we're talking now 2004 and and your battalion commander
[01:04:25] Colonel Lopez was already in the game thinking that way that's impressive force I right there that's
[01:04:30] outstanding and I got ahead incredible sense of ownership he never waited for permission to do
[01:04:34] anything he just like you know okay we need to fucking please Kevin we're gonna have one and so
[01:04:40] his MPs knocked that shit out they did a three week course and at the end of the course
[01:04:46] Colonel calls him in and he says hey Kevin Gibson tomorrow we're going in his own
[01:04:51] I'm gonna pay the first two weeks of pay for these policemen gonna turn that over to the police chief
[01:04:58] we've got 33 police recruits that we just graduated and I'm giving them all to the
[01:05:06] Crabble police it wasn't up to the Iraqi police chiefs to determine where their man
[01:05:11] Peruscon Colonel Lopez decided third they're going to Crabble so Kilo you got him and what I want
[01:05:17] you to do to reinforce the skills they just learned in this police academy you're gonna conduct
[01:05:23] around the clock controlling these guys for four-day period to show the people of Crabble
[01:05:30] Marines police working side by side and Iraqis doing their job man this is this is a this is
[01:05:36] incredible force I from Colonel Lopez first sir that's brilliant so he said I we're going
[01:05:43] in his own and I'll meet you in there right so at the same time I need you to identify a
[01:05:51] prospective location for company patrol base to carry this trolling operation out of
[01:05:58] so was that gonna be a permanent base like hey we're looking for some four days okay okay
[01:06:03] but you're looking for some of the four days yeah general matters at the time for made the
[01:06:09] permanent establishment of any thing below the size of a battalion
[01:06:15] uh... got the zone right so he says you're taking the company in four-day straight to patrol
[01:06:21] got it so I came back and I grabbed bull tenor Robinson Kilo four since they were on the
[01:06:28] rotation now and I said hey I need a fucking squad to get me in the zone tomorrow and by the way
[01:06:35] I'm also picking you because during this patrolling operation Kilo four is gonna be perimeter security
[01:06:40] for the patrol base so I need you guys to get eyes on this water true and plant and confirm
[01:06:46] for me whether or not it's can answer the mail for us from a security standpoint so for you
[01:06:52] guys this is like a recon to find out where you can establish this four-day fire base
[01:06:58] and then you're gonna conduct patrols out of there for four days with their racket police
[01:07:02] yeah and it was right situated right behind the police station so made perfect sense
[01:07:07] because we're gonna I grabbed Kilo two they were gonna be the patrol platoon they would have a
[01:07:13] squad size patrol around the fucking clock with policeman embedded in it Kilo three you're gonna
[01:07:21] be local security patrols for 96 hours straight outside the perimeter to keep the enemy
[01:07:29] off our fucking backs and Kilo four you've got the perimeter security for the patrol base itself
[01:07:39] all right so you guys rolling it did you roll in with the kernels with his convoy negative
[01:07:46] we met his patrol onsite at the police station okay so you who showed up first you guys
[01:07:51] not a kernel of his was there okay so kernel of us was there they're doing their meet and greet
[01:07:56] he's paying people he's he's shaking hands and and establishing that and then you guys rolling
[01:08:02] their afterwards meet with him and and now you're doing your assessment right
[01:08:11] and and you have who's the element that's with you right now with just you who is it
[01:08:16] is it Kilo four two so it's Kilo four two that's that's that's who you have they were your
[01:08:21] escort going in there basically correct so in addition to Dunham's squad proper we had attachments
[01:08:29] right for being one of them because he was gonna be the platoon sergeant in charge of perimeter
[01:08:34] security so he wanted fucking eyes on to to get a good idea of exactly what he was gonna need
[01:08:41] to pull off a perimeter security plan right and then we had a stessor on by auto right
[01:08:48] from that's three yep we also had the pain master for the baton was brought along because he
[01:08:56] was he was the one turn over the cash for sure and we had we brought along we had started
[01:09:03] in one or two stay because it part of the defensive plan I was also gonna put in
[01:09:11] sniper heights because I wanted I wanted no interference whatsoever with this
[01:09:17] troin operation and based on the feedback we had gotten from first to the third they'd gone
[01:09:24] in a couple times to try and establish patrol bases and every time they they weren't in
[01:09:30] there a couple hours before they were taking orders right turns out in the day I think they didn't
[01:09:36] have strong enough local security right I think they're there since inherent sense of protection
[01:09:46] that came with an armored unit they I think they took some things for granted that it
[01:09:54] a regular rifle company wasn't taking for you you get a little bit detached when you're
[01:09:59] inside armor right there's a there's a connection missing between you and the local
[01:10:02] populace if you're not careful about it right and a certain sense of invincibility I think
[01:10:08] the oh yeah for sure for sure the Abrams main battle tank is a is it bad as a machine
[01:10:17] it can give anyone a sense of invincibility until of course they hit ideas that can take them out
[01:10:23] so you guys get there and now you're you know the kernels do with his kind of thing and then
[01:10:32] at some point he's gonna leave and he leaves and you guys are now doing a deep assessment
[01:10:37] your check and things out probably looking where you're gonna set up sniper overwatch is and whatnot
[01:10:42] so we had we transitioned over to the treatment plant by then and tank commanders patrol
[01:10:50] continue to who save a per his plan to visit the new Iraqi police station and then continue
[01:10:58] on delay got it so heading into this heading into this mission where you're gonna where you're
[01:11:06] gonna stay for a few days was there anything from a planning perspective that that was different
[01:11:13] or that you noticed heading into it oh for me I I hadn't even I'd started the the draft of
[01:11:23] the company order for that new enough that already what I was assigned each patoon to do right
[01:11:28] and I'd I'd be flesh in that out in the days ahead but of most immediate concern was the
[01:11:40] the patrol the next day that was getting us in there to conduct the recon and that mission planning
[01:11:47] fell in done them and sub to him as the rifle squad leader in charge of the patrol he had more
[01:11:57] than just his Marines he was your schmonsville for he had another 10 Marines in escort from the
[01:12:04] cat split section in addition to another squad minus that was gonna be man in the trucks that
[01:12:11] was getting his squad in his own so all told he had something like 25 Marines that he was response
[01:12:18] before in that patrol and it was his first time doing it because prior to that in you say but
[01:12:27] it was always up to 10 Robinson right because it was a team-sized patrol that told time they're up there
[01:12:33] so in addition to that there was a bit of angst but concern in the air of the company as a whole
[01:12:50] because we just fired two rifle squad leaders both from the same team Kilo 3 two corpos that had
[01:12:58] talked a good game came across as no one there shit you know during the training back in
[01:13:06] 20 poms and we're selected as squad leaders Kilo 3 one and Kilo 3 3 and by the time we were in
[01:13:18] our third week of operations in all time you could tell in the mission brief prior to step off
[01:13:31] whether that squad leader knew what the fuck he was doing or not whether he had put a time in effort
[01:13:37] into preparing his Marines for that fucking patrol and these two Marines two corpos weren't
[01:13:46] taking it seriously enough they didn't grasp the gravity of the situation they thought they could
[01:13:54] just bullshit their way through it and so we fired him and we put a lance corprel in charge
[01:14:04] of Kilo 3 3 Danny Santos Salvadoran from East LA a fucking liberal risk to the cows come home
[01:14:12] but that fucking good fight and he had extremely strong sense of ownership that I saw
[01:14:22] stood out to me during our training in March Air Force Base in early January just pulling
[01:14:27] new guys in before and after every training patrol just teaching them everything he fucking knew
[01:14:35] to get them up to speed without arrogance and when I saw that I said you know what that guy he
[01:14:43] needs to be a fucking squad leader but as it shook out he didn't get selected but when the
[01:14:48] opportunity arose and those two corpos got fired it didn't even need to be said he was a four
[01:14:56] gun conclusion that Danny Santos was taken three three and then PFC Matthew Royer took Kilo 3 1
[01:15:09] he should have been a corprel he did coke between right before LF1 right he got he had been busted
[01:15:15] down so he was in the same group as the some of the other corprel squad leaders but he was a PFC
[01:15:23] but he didn't matter to me because the guy knew his shit and he wasn't afraid to stand up and
[01:15:29] open his mouth right so to me he was more far more important to have a marine who knew his shit
[01:15:41] and wanted it to be in charge of that fucking squad than anyone with fucking rank it didn't matter
[01:15:47] to me he was performance-based rewards right at that point the only thing that matters is
[01:15:51] fucking performance on a care which your rank is so this was hanging over the company right
[01:15:59] and your your squad leaders see other squad leaders getting fired they know that they
[01:16:05] right have the shit in one bag right and I could tell that Donald was nervous about that
[01:16:14] he just cared so fucking much you know and he didn't want to screw anything up
[01:16:24] and let there be any doubt in my mind that he deserved to be a squad leader right and he
[01:16:29] deserved that role he was in it was so obviously that he was nervous and I think the marine
[01:16:35] or just military in general puts the spirit in you that you don't want to let anybody down
[01:16:39] and just if you have self respect you want to be prepared and you don't want to look like
[01:16:43] an ass-hatt and you just want to have all your eggs one basket and he was nervous
[01:16:48] didn't help that our skipper here was you know he just his last duty station he was an instructor
[01:16:53] at the infantry officer infantry I'll see you right and so he's a little intense so
[01:16:58] Donald was a little bit worried about that but I'm like Jason just do what you've done
[01:17:02] do what your taught go down the checklist hit everything up you know will help you out whatever you need
[01:17:08] so this patrol was due to step is your way and it's midnight on the 13th of April
[01:17:20] and I'm in the COC I got a radio operator at Cresco I think is on the radio
[01:17:27] so just me Cresco and Donald and we had this makeshift picnic table that we had inherited from the
[01:17:41] Fox Troop and had the laminated copy of the damn company AO in satellite imagery
[01:17:50] on the whole table right so that that was the table covering so it was a useful planning tool
[01:17:57] done and was sitting there anyway he was right in his order it was fucking midnight
[01:18:02] right so he spent the whole damn day getting his squad ready for that freaking patrol he
[01:18:11] hadn't bothered with the paperwork you know but he knew that he needed to give an order the next
[01:18:18] morning right so he'd spent the whole damn time getting them ready for the mission
[01:18:24] so there he was gonna be losing a lot of sleep in order to make sure that they also had
[01:18:30] proper freaking order before they stepped so I'm sitting there watching him
[01:18:36] bear chested hot fucking hot boots and you'd spare chest working on his order
[01:18:50] and it's midnight and goddamn Hampton and Carboholkman
[01:18:57] Donald was too far to me we did what we do best rated the childhood so they come walking in with
[01:19:06] this cardboard tray with some tray rat fucking eggs and probably a slab of damn ham
[01:19:17] right or something whatever they get scratched what what what's what what's what
[01:19:20] and a whole lot no remember the sausage look like cat poop yeah just yeah but I remember
[01:19:29] there was a sausage on it and that's an nasty eggs and the hash that beef hash uh
[01:19:36] terrible yeah but the horrors of war so they're walking there and I look up and I realize
[01:19:46] it's just it's just too fucking far to me and I've got to play the child form and he looks
[01:19:51] up and he says what's this and Hampton says you spent your day taking care of us we know you haven't
[01:20:02] had time to take care of yourself so where it's chum and always remember being a student at
[01:20:15] TBS you know it's a segmented tenant and hearing stories from instructors about being a good
[01:20:23] leader has an officer and if you're doing your job and taking care of your brains
[01:20:29] they're going to take care of you back right like if you're digging into the D you've got
[01:20:37] more important shit to do than digger on fucking hole there was a story about their
[01:20:42] about a two commander would come back to find his Marines finishing up his freaking hole
[01:20:48] for him because he was too busy taking care of them you know to worry about protecting himself
[01:20:54] and that came back to me in a flash and to me the imagery of them presenting him with that
[01:21:09] played a child it it was symbolic and to me what I saw wasn't them giving him a play
[01:21:21] to shout was them putting the crown on his head and seeing your fucking lead man and it was in that moment
[01:21:35] and I'd been a Marine since 87 it wasn't until that very moment that I realized it
[01:21:43] the only one who can designate you as a leader is your fucking brains your peers can say
[01:21:57] you got leadership qualities and your seniors can see the same thing but the only one who gives
[01:22:02] you that title is the one you earn it from and that that struck me and it was sitting there and I
[01:22:16] thought Jesus Christ what I ever do if I lost him ring like that and I thought I should take a photo
[01:22:39] him I was fucking tired and I didn't fucking do it I'm gonna be in the last photo
[01:22:55] and I fucking regret that
[01:23:06] these guys taught me a lot that was probably the most important lesson I ever got as leader was seeing
[01:23:26] these two crown him a lot of that in part two was carbohol and I kept coming to him and trying to
[01:23:38] help him with the order because the first deployment that's all sorry trail had us do
[01:23:49] what's all we did was we didn't map over the lake we troll orders and so we knew it we had it
[01:23:58] down and we were kept coming in hey you want us to help you you want us to help you you want us to
[01:24:04] do something that you know you need to get done but doing this so we'll do those nope don't touch
[01:24:10] it it's just gonna be all mine I brought you that let us know if you need us I think after that
[01:24:18] that was when I was like yeah let's go get it chill well because you knew that the way we're
[01:24:24] gonna get split up that I was gonna have to run point that day so he ended up having me do the
[01:24:29] patrol over the you get here he had them wrapped out but he made me do the overlay and the whole
[01:24:34] time he was asking me questions about where we're going what are we doing next if we get in
[01:24:38] remember I'm asking me if we get here what LZ are we going to know and stuff and I had to turn
[01:24:44] that into the COC with all the radio frequencies because he knew I wanted to know like that's how
[01:24:51] I was I was wanted to know I didn't want to know my team there's job I wanted to know my squad leader's
[01:24:56] job like I wanted you know and I remember when he pulled me and I was like I felt rewarded to get to
[01:25:03] do this you know because he trusted me to do it it was a big deal to me yeah you know furred was talking
[01:25:11] earlier about you know making sure that people understand why they're doing what they're doing
[01:25:17] and how important that is no doubt you know for me that's the key of decentralized command is
[01:25:24] making sure that everyone knows why they're doing what they're doing but the other thing that
[01:25:26] happens is when like what you're saying when you give people the opportunity to come up with part of
[01:25:30] the plan it's like it's elevates them and makes them it's they have ownership of the plan because
[01:25:38] they made it up you know they made it up and so that's that's exactly what you're talking about
[01:25:44] and and those are the kind of things that those are kind of things that make you know young
[01:25:49] young troopers crowned their leader not because their leaders barking at them but because their
[01:25:55] leaders going hey I'll do this I'll take care of this I'll handle it you guys get some rest you guys
[01:26:00] take care of yourselves and at the same time hey here's this piece of the mission you come up with
[01:26:05] the plan for this you make sure we know what we're doing and you know I had a guy on the podcast
[01:26:11] Jim name Muka Yamma who retired as a general general Muka Yamma but you know he made he made this
[01:26:17] statement that I've underplayed over and over again but for him he's like oh you know what leadership
[01:26:25] boils down to is that you care about your men you care about your men because if you care about your
[01:26:32] men and your men know that then it goes back to what you said Trent if you take care of your
[01:26:37] men then your men are going to take care of you and the many you see a leader that's walking around
[01:26:43] barking orders thinking of themselves and by the way anybody that thinks they can they can plot
[01:26:50] a little good agenda for themselves and their team isn't going to see it you're wrong all day
[01:26:55] long today and twice on Sunday that's what's going to happen but that leader that's going
[01:27:00] hey I'm doing this for the good of the team that's the one that will get the crown of leadership
[01:27:08] there's one story that sticks out to me and it was when we first got in his own
[01:27:13] where Lima was setting up base there wasn't one so when we weren't doing a patrol we were
[01:27:19] setting up Hasco barriers and Philanham by hand and you get a working party together go to do it
[01:27:29] well who does working parties did you in years you know but there's this one day almost everybody
[01:27:37] in the teens out there doing it most of the squad leaders are working on patrol orders
[01:27:41] or getting things together and how come he's done them comes joins all of us starts
[01:27:47] planning the work by hand and we're filling these house games so only squad leader and our
[01:27:51] platoon that's out there open as Philanthes has to bear is this time I just remember thinking I was like
[01:27:56] he's because this is it's miserable it's fucking awful and I just remember thinking I'm like
[01:28:03] he doesn't have to be out here doing it but he's doing it because we're doing it you know and I could
[01:28:09] give countless examples of that that was the exact reason why everybody in his squad would have
[01:28:16] ran through a wall for him every day you know he took care of you he took care of the junior
[01:28:21] rings really well he took his aside and he'd always tell us you know if anybody's like stepping over the line
[01:28:26] just to let him know to come talk to him you know I remember him telling him that you know if you're
[01:28:30] stressed out come talk to me I want to know about it and he was just always available and it made you
[01:28:37] want to please him you know like I remember distinctly like I want this guy to look at me
[01:28:43] like being pressed like I want him to like me you know but not not I don't like not as a friend
[01:28:48] I just wanted to look me back that's fucking good and reenact you know that's one of my Marines
[01:28:52] and so you're trying to live up to this bar he sets and it made us all better
[01:28:58] yeah
[01:29:02] so
[01:29:04] taking us back now you've you've executed the plan
[01:29:09] and and now we're we're out in the field we're we're in that so are you in the the police station
[01:29:15] are you in the water treatment facility what's the difference between the two what's what's going on right now
[01:29:20] yeah so the command officer had finished his business with the police chief so he was
[01:29:28] heading to receiver and we walked out the back of the police station right across an alley into the
[01:29:37] water true plan which was unoccupied at the time it wasn't an in use but it had been
[01:29:43] actually was occupied by a Iraqi family who were squatting in one of the buildings that like the
[01:29:51] headquarters building of the true plan so the thing had been built it just never been used
[01:29:59] and so Ford was doing his thing get nice on the the perimeter of the entire structure
[01:30:07] and I it gone up to the roof of this headquarters building seems it was a three story
[01:30:18] so that's correct you were on the roof and I remember it all his uh
[01:30:21] Dunnam's radio operator Jason Sanders was paying had good uh SA and he was listening to what was
[01:30:27] going on in who saved it with some of the other stuff than chatter just like a good young
[01:30:32] Marine does you brought it to a squad leader squad leader Dunnam came in brought it to me on that Roger
[01:30:38] let's six now because he's got to have SA what's going on and then that's how that started
[01:30:43] and by the way I kind of skipped right into uh Colonel Lopez's
[01:30:48] Convoy that had left that police station and it was headed out but there was a whole other scenario
[01:30:56] unfolding where they had casualties and he saved a casualties they had a sniper over watts position
[01:31:02] getting hit he had wounded Marines I mean it was so all that chaos is breaking out
[01:31:08] in the morning kind of all morning right so we know this is uh what we're going into we're going
[01:31:14] to do a rough day in the city yeah and leave me three had been in contact I think for since
[01:31:19] sometime between 0 9 and 10 hundred that morning but I didn't have any viz on that
[01:31:24] um but as I was standing on top of the that building looking west just checking out the general layout
[01:31:36] from that vantage point we heard explosions to the west and my first thought
[01:31:46] with these explosions that was that Leam and Company was getting mortar again
[01:31:50] so they've been getting mortar every day for about two weeks straight 22 days straight 22 days straight
[01:31:58] okay sure but they had yet been able to get the jump on these guys so I thought shit you know
[01:32:06] we're actually in zone right now Leam is getting mortar we may be in the position to
[01:32:13] in our digge these guys so Dunn came running up the ladder well you still hear these explosions
[01:32:20] I turned to him when I said what do you think and he says I think Leam is getting hit
[01:32:27] I said well let's go get those motherfuckers so we called his boys and told him they were
[01:32:34] settling up and pushing out and our vehicles had been satellite into the time on a
[01:32:41] certain radius outside of our position so we started moving out onto route diamond
[01:32:53] that was a MSR that would lead us west into Leam and Company's pause and we started running
[01:33:02] because there was a sense of urgency you know when when the fucking sister units get
[01:33:09] hit you you want to fucking help so we started running down diamond and Sanders on the run got
[01:33:17] a hold of the gun trucks and got him to link up with us on time and so before long the truck
[01:33:26] showed up we mounted up and then started racing west and within moments in RPG flew over one of the
[01:33:41] highbacks right over Carberhol's head and we knew he had arrived at the ambush site
[01:33:47] by the time we got in the trucks we heard on the radio net that he wasn't leaving to get mortar
[01:33:53] because the tank man has patrol just got hit outside the arches which is the almost the eastern
[01:34:02] periphery of Hussainva so it was a direction we were headed and then we were there before we knew it
[01:34:10] and they got hit hard and they they took multiple casualties and had pushed they pushed through
[01:34:18] the kilzone though right yeah but now they had casualties and and that's what you guys
[01:34:25] just drove through the exact same kilzone we rolled into it as in my assessment that the
[01:34:33] ambushing element was unass in that ambush zone but I'm sure they weren't expecting us to
[01:34:41] arrive and I thought oh shit you know some fresh meat it's fucking launch another RPG bonus
[01:34:46] yeah so we started taking fire immediately and the first thing like we talked about early
[01:34:53] get out of the fucking truck right so we got out of the trucks and got up against a wall
[01:35:01] the trucks leave now they stayed there initially and we all got up against the wall to give us some
[01:35:08] cover from the fire that was actually then coming over from behind that wall and down the whole
[01:35:16] row of buildings there towards the arches and so don't know when I got up against the wall
[01:35:26] I'm going to right next to him and decided we need to get the the only way to do it was to
[01:35:34] clear these fuckers out on foot right and I had seen the battle drill before on on my first day
[01:35:41] in zone before the company even got there when we were doing an orientation patrol with first
[01:35:46] to the third we got hit in the HK in damn near the same spot and the guys that we were on that
[01:35:54] patrol with were the self propelled battery that was organic to first of the third and they were the
[01:36:03] only guys I think in that they're definitely only guys in that squadron who were employed in
[01:36:10] Hong V's so they were the closest thing to grunts as first of the third had and they knew their
[01:36:16] shit they called an immediate audible when we got hit with an ID and started taking fire and those
[01:36:27] droopers immediately pushed south to the elevated train tracks on the south side of HK it was
[01:36:37] delineating the southern edge of that village and they they pushed south to coordinate and
[01:36:45] to then dismount and and start sweeping in the process they killed one mous and captured two more
[01:36:55] so my first thought was pay same thing cordons on the south sweet from north to south
[01:37:01] and then I'm said alright I'm taking Hampton you go with Carball Roger that get those trucks to the south
[01:37:11] and let's do it and so then Hampton Furg and Dunham and Miller
[01:37:22] St. George Arnold says on a biodew that whole element started pushing south and
[01:37:34] we myself with Carball Hall we wound up sweeping
[01:37:41] more to the west initially as these guys were clearing to the south
[01:37:47] now there's a book there's a book called the Gift of Valor and it's a book written by
[01:37:57] a guy named Michael Phillips who's a Wall Street Journal reporter which may make you think oh
[01:38:04] well what is that well he actually did four tours in Iraq and he was with the 37 a bunch
[01:38:12] and he did a great job of interviewing so many people to kind of capture this story the book is
[01:38:23] called the Gift of Valor and he spells out this section well pretty good pretty comprehensively
[01:38:33] and I'm sure you guys will have stuff to add but I'm actually going to go and and read a
[01:38:39] little bit of this book picking up from from that situation so here we go at about 1220
[01:38:47] PM the Marines reached the next cross street where the alleyway hit a T junction on the left
[01:38:52] before the junction was an unfinished single story home made of a tan stone and poured concrete
[01:38:56] with red metal doors and window grates on the right the alleyway widened out to the courtyard of a
[01:39:02] concrete and center blockhouse of rusty twisted car chassis lying for the only amid the trash
[01:39:07] straight ahead over some buildings and about a block away they could see the top of the water
[01:39:12] treatment plant the dirt lane that crossed in front of them was deeply rotted to their right was
[01:39:18] bordered on the north side by a tumbled down stone wall and a couple dozen yards further to the
[01:39:24] west a straight ahead center block wall stopped in the lane where eight vehicles pointing from east
[01:39:32] pointing east toward the approaching Marines from the corner done him in his men could see a small
[01:39:39] bus a van a white Toyota land cruiser a second SUV a red tractor a black BMW a white truck
[01:39:48] frozen in the middle of an attempt to turn around in a narrow lane and finally a white sedan
[01:39:54] with all four doors open the point man Miller had just reached the T junction when staff sergeant
[01:40:01] Ferguson a few dozen yards back noticed the lineups line up of vehicles what's going on he asked
[01:40:07] Corporal Dunham what are you doing done and wanted to keep moving but Ferguson recalled the white
[01:40:14] SUV that sergeant Reynolds had seen high tailing across J. to few minutes earlier and thought
[01:40:20] the cars were worth the quick look no Ferguson told Dunham we're going to search these calls cars so there you go
[01:40:33] guys and I you know we didn't really cover that part of the story but there have been
[01:40:37] vehicles that were PID leaving the ambush site and so that's what you're seeing positively identifying
[01:40:42] or at least suspected vehicles that had left the ambush site because trend as you said
[01:40:47] the ambush was probably over when you guys showed up or at least they were trying to wrap it up
[01:40:52] you guys showed up they got a little bonus secondary but most likely they're all leaving that's what
[01:40:58] you guys are thinking head now and now you see these vehicles lined up and they're looking sketchy
[01:41:04] yeah that was the assumption that they were trying to leave the area and I figured they got caught
[01:41:08] up in the uh the log jam right there and I knew because we had a patrol that area before with
[01:41:13] Lima company so we were familiar with that area I knew it was the other water treatment plant and then
[01:41:18] on the opposite side of that would just be the railroad train tracks so I thought that was our
[01:41:21] best course of action at the time and I remember when I told him that he was looking at me and then
[01:41:26] also looking down the rows of cars so something was going on down there that had his attention as well
[01:41:31] and then he's he's our beeline and down that way. I remember you know that for hasty vehicle
[01:41:38] searches because we were essentially pushing to contact so it was like a we needed search
[01:41:41] yeah let's just go on the hunting searches. Hampton walked alongside the small bus and
[01:41:50] peered through the windows he saw only women and children decided not to bother searching the interior
[01:41:55] the driver the second vehicle the tan the van was middle aged with a younger man next to him
[01:42:01] search vehicle Hampton said narrowback a phrase he'd picked up from the Marines pocket language
[01:42:05] carts he saw no weapons in the driver's lap so he opened the sliding door on the vans right
[01:42:10] side the car was space contained nothing suspect. I always felt like when I spoke aerobic to
[01:42:18] Iraqis that it didn't really seem right coming out of my big white head and that they never
[01:42:25] understood a thing I was saying I wasn't sure if they were just shocked then I said something to him
[01:42:33] that's the look I've got there just like I always got. Doing this guy just tell me he's got
[01:42:38] a search my car wow or did he just tell me the dog is brown and I don't understand why I need
[01:42:48] to tie my shoes nobody here has laces but I just yeah so quick vehicle search that's where you guys are
[01:42:58] doing pretty straightforward back to the book Corporal Dunham and PFC Miller moved quickly up the
[01:43:08] street until they came to the elderly white land cruiser which was some 50 yards from the intersection
[01:43:13] where the alleyway met the road Miller edged along the passenger side and saw the muzzle and wood front
[01:43:21] grip of an AK 47 rifle poking out from under the floor map he looked up in time to see the driver
[01:43:27] a young Iraqi man in a black tracksuit open the door and lunge at Dunham
[01:43:33] people uh the people a lot of people don't know about the mujahadine uniform of the tracksuit
[01:43:48] the tracksuit so you see the guy in the tracksuit again this is these things you can't when you explain
[01:43:55] them to people it's almost like a bad movie right like you see the AK 47 hidden under a format
[01:44:02] like you guys are gonna get away with this well he he had multiple like it was a small cash
[01:44:09] before five guns I think there was an RPG and because it was passing by a period in the windows
[01:44:16] you know passenger window and I hit the second window vehicle and I saw them and it's like
[01:44:23] instantaneous as I'm looking up to say something they start fighting and I didn't have a
[01:44:29] chance of like saying you know I just reacted to go around and assist how many guys were in the vehicle
[01:44:37] one oh so it was just one guy in the vehicle so as you're coming up on the passenger side you look
[01:44:42] in one window you see it next thing you know you look up the driver in a tracksuit gets out
[01:44:49] and he's on Dunham like in an instant yes yes there have been more guys in that vid but they
[01:44:57] unassed it by the time Dunham got to it okay because that in the far in the far vehicles well
[01:45:06] that was trying to turn around they just unassed and ran yeah the vehicle behind the four
[01:45:10] runner everybody TD mound yep I guess they have the same thoughts about being in vehicles as we do
[01:45:18] let's get out of this there it's about to become a bullet sponge back in those vehicles are stuck
[01:45:23] there were all stuck and in hindsight they were you know maybe a couple of those vicks were
[01:45:34] filled with insurgents and all the rest of them were just fucking innocent people who were trying to get
[01:45:40] through the HK around this site of the ambush that had just been unleashed up on Diamond right so
[01:45:48] they were going to try and drive through that thing so they were just trying to bounce around through
[01:45:52] the village to carry on with their life's business and you know stuck in the middle of them were
[01:45:59] a couple of vicks with insurgents and and a correction on on Mike's terminology in the book
[01:46:10] what we discovered later which by the 17th three days later the battle for her saviour kicked off
[01:46:16] was it you just got wooden Iraqi there's a four of the fire they had they had infiltrated through
[01:46:22] Syria by the hundreds to kick off an offensive across the entire province they were there to fight
[01:46:31] yeah so continuing on the Iraqi which again as you just pointed out pointed out this guy is
[01:46:39] a foreign fighter from any number of countries wrapped his left arm around the back of Dunham's neck
[01:46:47] and cocked his right arm to punch the corporal in the face Dunham caught the man's fist to block the swing
[01:46:53] the two stumbled toward the land cruiser Dunham pulled his right knee up and drove into the Iraqi
[01:46:59] stomach the Iraqi doubled over from the blow and the men fell to the ground in an angry embrace
[01:47:05] Miller's brother a sheriff's deputy in California had brought had bought Kelly a telescoping police
[01:47:12] baton and shifted to Iraq Miller didn't really think he'd ever need it but he liked the idea of
[01:47:18] having one in kept it in a holster zip tied to his flat vest up until that point Miller used it
[01:47:23] mostly to fend off stray dogs but as he ran around the front of the SUV toward Dunham and the Iraqi
[01:47:29] again foreign fighter he pulled the baton out and snapped it down to his side to extended to its full length
[01:47:37] Miller saw the Iraqi lying on his back his head toward the rear of the land cruiser
[01:47:43] Dunham was faced down on top of him torso rotated slightly counterclockwise
[01:47:50] Miller planned his left knee in the Iraqi's ribs
[01:47:53] Braising his left hand on Dunham's back he slammed the butt of the baton as hard as he could into the Iraqis
[01:47:58] forehead the blow was so sharp that the metal baton collapsed back into itself
[01:48:04] Miller was amazed the man was still conscious much less still fighting
[01:48:09] he drove the baton into the Iraqis forehead again then jabbed it into the left side of the man's neck a
[01:48:14] blood choke he had been told would pinch off circulation to the brain through the karate artery
[01:48:26] Lance Corporal Hampton saw the melee in charge around the van and up the street
[01:48:32] his adrenaline surging all they could hear was the loud pounding of his own pulse as he
[01:48:36] searched for an open shot on the Iraqi to hit shoot him in the head he said to himself
[01:48:40] he aimed his rifle but worried that any shot might go through the Iraqi and hit Miller
[01:48:44] hell he thought a muzzle pump
[01:48:47] Marines are taught to poke the rifle barrels into the eyes their enemies to make sure
[01:48:52] their dead only the dead or comatose could resist flinching when poked hard in the eye
[01:48:58] with a long piece of metal the muzzle pump could also be delivered to the chest to get someone
[01:49:03] aggressive to back off without resorting to deadly force Hampton planned to fump the Iraqi in the temple
[01:49:09] if it knocked him out fine if it killed him that was fine with bill two
[01:49:12] Hampton picked out a spot on the rigging Iraqis temple and pulled his rifle back to get some
[01:49:18] force behind it is there a bill for shaking your head I was going to put that thing through his head
[01:49:27] I was put it through his eye yeah I wasn't going to put it through his temple I was going right here
[01:49:33] I was just going to go right here and try and push that rifle back out this way
[01:49:37] do yeah it's a it's hairy those the grappling situation when that's going down and you have a weapon
[01:49:46] and you're you know one of your guys is grappling with an insurgent that can that's a that's a
[01:49:51] tough shot to take because it's not like a movie where the bad guys hold in the hostage
[01:49:58] still because this is a fight that's going on and you know anything can happen at any point
[01:50:08] and the other thing is I mean you guys are you got to think you're I'd be thinking to myself
[01:50:14] okay well this guy didn't shoot us you didn't blow he didn't blow us up so how do we know this
[01:50:21] guys aren't we're not that's another question that can be going through your head I'm sure
[01:50:26] people sit back and say oh just kill him yeah that's something that is is a decision that's
[01:50:33] getting made but when you your first instinct in that situation you got your buddy on top of them
[01:50:38] you don't know if the guys aren't there's a lot of things going on to just start unloading your weapon
[01:50:45] and and that's where I'm thinking both of you guys are thinking well you're kind of got to
[01:50:49] you're you thought you're mind I'll shoot this guy and you guys but both you are going non-lethal
[01:50:54] at this point in time yes I was just trying like my thought process was if I hit him hard enough
[01:51:00] I had knock him out I mean I'm hitting him with the metal baton and I hit him the first time
[01:51:04] and he was still struggling so I came in for the second one and at that time you could see that I
[01:51:10] split his forehead wide open and fractured his skull and he was still fighting and so I was like okay
[01:51:18] I like I need to do some different and I always remember in boot camp they talk about the
[01:51:23] blood choke so I just started put pressure across this crowded with all my weight and then by then
[01:51:31] I think build it just when I started to apply the choke that's when build it come up and that's when
[01:51:39] the rest happened get to yeah you know again for young people and any
[01:51:46] employment like this whether you're a cop or you're a soldier you're marine whatever
[01:51:50] situation you're in well this is one thing that we learned there's this idea that when you hit
[01:51:54] someone if you hit him hard enough they're going to get knocked out and we learned this over and over again
[01:52:02] that it's not true and there's a chance when you hit someone you can knock him out there's a
[01:52:07] chance that they don't get knocked out one of my my assistant Petune commander
[01:52:11] and her room we were taking down a building and there was a a combatif in a combatif in
[01:52:19] surgeon in there and you know we had learned the muscle strike muscle strike you know muscle strike
[01:52:25] to the face it'll it'll knock him out for sure it may kill him so you gotta be a little bit careful
[01:52:31] whatever my assistant Petune commander did the hardest muscle strike I think a person could
[01:52:38] he he took a running start without eight yards and fully cock back his weapon and then drove
[01:52:43] it into this guy's head and and it deflected a little bit like around the brow and carved out
[01:52:49] a big giant chunk of his scalp no factor the guy he's bleeding like a stuck pig but he kept fighting
[01:53:02] so all that's going on and here we go back to the book while done him Miller and Hampton
[01:53:07] wrestled with the Iraqi Sergeant Reynolds the sniper told Sanders to provide covered case the
[01:53:13] Iraqi had friends around so Sanders was more than a dozen dozen yards away from the fight
[01:53:19] when he heard done him yellow warning no no no watch his hand Hampton heard nothing except the
[01:53:26] beating of his own heart but he kept caught a fleeting glimpse of done him's helmet on the ground
[01:53:33] next to the Iraqi done him was on his stomach with his arms outstretched in front of him
[01:53:39] and wrapped around the sides of his helmet as if you were holding it down on top of something
[01:53:49] then came the explosion
[01:53:55] Bill Hampton saw flash of light but the explosion didn't sound very loud to him
[01:53:59] his vision blurred and he knew that something had happened to him he just didn't know what
[01:54:05] his first thought was whether his teeth had been hit he ran his tongue along them and was
[01:54:09] relieved to find them all in place but his face leg and arm leaked red the concussion and broken
[01:54:15] his nose one tiny metal fragment hit him under the nostrils and another embedded itself in his top lip
[01:54:22] a piece of shrapnel about the size of a pen tip had it hit him in the right knuckle several
[01:54:26] shards of metal hit him in the left arm and left leg one piece hit a bone in his forearm broke up
[01:54:32] and opened an inch wide hole as it exited another travel to up his arm and cut away
[01:54:38] cut its way out the middle of his elbow leaving exit shaped tear then lodged in his bicep
[01:54:46] he remembered that slowing his breathing would slow the bleeding and he tried to do so
[01:54:49] he staggered against the cinder block wall and backed toward the intersection he couldn't left
[01:54:54] his rifle with his left arms who he held in his right by the trigger guard and pistol grip
[01:54:59] trying to keep an eye out for enemy fighters
[01:55:07] a bowman of flash
[01:55:14] Kelly Miller saw the explosion and it's aftermath in a series of still frames
[01:55:18] first he saw a done him tipping over his radio headset still on but his helmet gone
[01:55:25] then Miller saw the sky as he fell over backwards onto the rocket launcher slung from his shoulder
[01:55:30] he here to steady ring like the sound of a hospital heart monitor makes when the patient
[01:55:35] flat lines Miller's face hurt and is and felt hot as if he had a bad somber he tasted blood in his mouth
[01:55:42] and had the vape feeling he was being shot at his left arm hurt next he tried to grab his rifle
[01:55:49] with his left hand but nothing happened he wondered why his arm wasn't working he looked down
[01:55:53] to see blood streaming off the fingertips one piece of hot metal admitell admitell's upper lip
[01:55:59] traveled inside his right cheek and shattered a molar before coming to rest inside of his back
[01:56:04] cheek other fragments peppered around the area around his eyes left cheek and forehead
[01:56:09] the blast blew out his left ear drum one piece of grenade shap and went clean through his right
[01:56:14] tricep side to side and punctured the breakery will artery but for some reason it didn't
[01:56:22] hurt as bad as his upper left arm which had been hit by five or six big chunks of metal
[01:56:27] and sprayed with pavol size fragments the explosion left sanders the radio operator temporarily
[01:56:35] deaf he saw dent done them Miller and Hampton Hampton knocked back by the blast and thought
[01:56:44] they're all fucking dead
[01:56:48] so
[01:57:00] with that the insurgent that was laying there actually gets up and runs and sanders the radio operator
[01:57:10] then unloads on him and kills him but it's interesting in the book it was like sanders
[01:57:16] didn't really understand he was looking for someone else as well he thought there's no way
[01:57:19] that whoever was there survived so he was looking for someone else another insurgent
[01:57:28] and that leaves you for kind of trying to organize the casivac at this point right
[01:57:34] well yeah just went from a seven man team to three Marines getting wounded so we're almost combat
[01:57:39] you know ineffective so my main thing was try to set up a casualty collection point around the back
[01:57:46] well the fence line right there and get these Marines tended to could you guys
[01:57:55] in the book it says I felt like they're it's accurate but I could feel the bolts
[01:58:02] passing me and I was incredibly disoriented never lost consciousness but I'm looking down on
[01:58:08] the ground and I can see the bolts striking and so I got my rifle with my right arm
[01:58:15] because it's still worked and I actually knelt behind the I knelt at the front of the white
[01:58:21] land over and tried to hold security one handed and it felt like an attorney if you want to tell
[01:58:26] you up but it was probably seconds passed and my adrenaline started to wane and then I actually had to
[01:58:32] go back I kept moving back down the line of cars the way we came because
[01:58:37] with every passing second my pain level started to skyrocket and I actually puked right there
[01:58:45] at the white land rover and then I made it back behind the red vehicle and I puked again and that's when
[01:58:51] Sanders came up and he was passing by and I was actually so much pain I asked him to knock me out
[01:58:58] because I just wanted it to stop like I was it was I couldn't stop puking because the the pain was so
[01:59:04] bad and then I think I saw furg moving up past me as well and then Sergeant Reynolds guided me to
[01:59:16] where the casual collection point was and just put me up against a wall the pile of goo I was at this point
[01:59:23] and then Hampton joined me and I remember the thing that I cared about most and the bill was the same
[01:59:30] way I didn't give two bucks about myself I never asked how I was I never asked how bill was because I could
[01:59:34] see him how was where's done him how's done him you know that was the only thing I could care about because
[01:59:41] like I'm I could tell like I'm still talking I can think I'm fine enough I could see Bill he was talking
[01:59:50] looking at me he was going to be okay but both Bill and I were just wanted to know where was
[01:59:56] down him how was down him and like that was like a theme almost because nobody knew how do you
[02:00:01] guys get did you bring down him back over the casual collection point first what it was is actually
[02:00:07] Jason Sanders was moving him they were fired upon and he had gotten him back around the wall
[02:00:14] but I can't stress enough because I was at the I just passed the first headlight of the vehicle
[02:00:19] when I exploded and it's absolutely amazing I thought I had three three KIAs on my hand because
[02:00:25] the amount of concussion that I felt and I had the vehicle between me and just reverberating off
[02:00:32] the walls and that and not even says in the book you could feel how hollow your chest cavity is
[02:00:37] and it knocked me back a few feet too and I had to get my orientation so the fact that these guys
[02:00:41] any of them were able to get up is like yeah the only thing that stopped me was the wall behind me
[02:00:49] I like I put a nice little body imprint into it because I went into it's hard and I was on one knee
[02:00:56] hunched over so it was powerful yeah it would make sense you know when you start talking
[02:01:03] about getting shot at obviously if you're those insurgents that bailed out of those first the sedan
[02:01:08] and then the other guys that jumped out of the crew the land cruiser they know what's about to
[02:01:13] happen and they're gonna set up on you as soon as they get a good distance they're gonna set up
[02:01:17] position so they can start shooting at you once this suicide guy gets does the execution to
[02:01:21] his part of the mission they're gonna be coming in hot it was it was one that indescribable
[02:01:27] earie things because my hearing from the explosion was so fucked I couldn't hear being shot at
[02:01:35] I actually had no idea I was being shot at through hearing the only reason I knew I need couldn't be
[02:01:40] there's because I could feel it and see and I saw the dirt strike marks say with you Bill
[02:01:47] I didn't see anybody shooting and it just baffles me because I stood up and I walked back
[02:01:54] doored steps art and Ferguson and they're telling me now that I walked through bullets and I had no
[02:02:02] clue I couldn't hear anything it was ringing my head I mean I got slapped in the face I felt like
[02:02:08] I got slapped in the face with a shovel I mean and I whoever did it got a full swing with that
[02:02:15] shovel yeah because that's I can't explain it any other way it was just you got hit with a shovel
[02:02:21] in the face they were almost like walking zombies obviously because of that concussion that and then
[02:02:27] he just you know there's like it fucking hurts you're gonna be all right that could tell the way
[02:02:32] they were holding their arms and which armors were hurt which arms were damaged and then I could
[02:02:36] see some other visual wounds I was like I'm gonna be fine when we get back there what about your
[02:02:41] break you'll argue being hit how bad is that believe it's like a waterfall going down my arm
[02:02:47] he puts his arms up and goes ah fuck well I all three of my nerves and I left number damaged
[02:02:55] I have a high bicep so I had no function from my shoulder down I couldn't move my fingers
[02:03:01] can bend it I also had no feeling because your nerves tell you when share hurts they're I'm getting
[02:03:06] buddy aid and they're I'm like your hand is like his left arm has left arm I'm like no my left arm
[02:03:11] is fine my right arm hurts and they're like no no your left arm and also and I just look
[02:03:18] and my camis bread and I'm like it's like somebody took a water bottle and it's honed on your shoulder
[02:03:23] and it's just flooding down they've watched it just watched this camis just and then it was like
[02:03:31] I actually got in both break-ups because I lifted my right arm out after he cut my sleeve off and it was
[02:03:36] a squirter so I had and ended up getting turning it on both arms and well certain
[02:03:43] runnels was doing that was was runnels no it was about to be eight in me well okay and then I
[02:03:48] self-hated my leg and then I think he helped me with my arm but I self-hated my leg while he was
[02:03:56] doing that with Miller and then and then I had to pee and he had to pee you know not a series
[02:04:03] is a rest but things you worry about after you get hurt don't make any sense don't when I both
[02:04:09] took off her watches because we didn't want to cut it off I was pissed off because I had a shower
[02:04:14] in 30 days and I shot the day before so I was wearing clean camis they took my gloves off they
[02:04:20] ripped it and now the buttons went off and my first one you can even mother fucker you know
[02:04:25] I looked at Bill and I told him I'd like I cut my boots off I was pissed about my boots getting
[02:04:29] cut off there's laces cut the laces pull it off I went those back you know I looked at Bill
[02:04:35] and I told him my mom was going to be pissed you know I got a girl probably right about that oh
[02:04:40] shit but it's amazing what the mind can do I'm sitting there with both my break girls damage
[02:04:47] two turnicats on I've lost units of blood and I'm worried about the most trivial things because
[02:04:54] again I'm a 21 year old who thinks I'm pretty invincible but if fucking hurts right now
[02:05:01] how long did it take to get the caswack going for uh they they were there in a matter of minutes
[02:05:06] um we used our vix to get out and Jason Sanders once again he was awesome because he had that all
[02:05:12] set up nothing but I think he asked me to what clarification I said one urgent surgical to routine
[02:05:19] and he took care of all that and a lot of it is the way the the skipper broke down our company because
[02:05:26] it was really is groundbreaking because I always felt comfortable that no matter what the mission
[02:05:31] I had 51s with me that could breach or demo or c4 anything my uh mortarman they were call for fire
[02:05:39] specialist and they were also a met-of-act guys and then 31s when we were at Lima Company
[02:05:46] us and Kila one where the only ones we didn't need no help from Lima we could man whatever position
[02:05:51] Martin 1924 to golf so the way we did that though it was awesome and that paid off dividends
[02:05:56] been having Jason Sanders and he I didn't have to tell many things except for the clarification
[02:06:01] how many vehicles came in and get you it was our uh what was it it was corpuself right
[02:06:07] cat white can't wait because stop was there McManus and so came in with four mix four vehicles
[02:06:14] four vehicles over watch position we kept them anytime we had a union zone and even while we were
[02:06:22] out of out of zone uh God for the first two months we had a cat section in zone around the clock
[02:06:33] as as a ready QRF in case the battalion in the union of a time came in contact there was
[02:06:41] always someone in zone who could fucking respond well for me it wasn't until cat white
[02:06:47] came in picked up done them that I actually realized how bad I was hurt like I had got the
[02:06:52] buddy aid and you know I had the turn of kitson but um stout was a gunner for cat white and
[02:06:57] him and I went to the school of entry at the same time and uh his vehicle parked right by the
[02:07:02] wall and he could see me and I looked down and he was like he looks down and he was like hey
[02:07:06] Miller you're gonna be fine we're gonna get you out of here and he was like you know trying
[02:07:10] to steal confidence but it was look on his face when he was looking at me and that that it that
[02:07:14] was when I was like it's sunk in I was like I must not be as okay as I think I am right now
[02:07:22] the thing that one wants to hear you're gonna be okay you're gonna get you out of here
[02:07:27] that was the same too I was worried about it because my facial expressions I could tell and I
[02:07:30] told Sergeant Reynolds hey look because I was worried we might not have to turnicate that or something
[02:07:34] because I knew he was who's bleeding that and um but the weird thing I remember is because everything
[02:07:40] was going off and and who said then we just had that incident we didn't know what was going on
[02:07:44] at the time so I'm like I remember loading these guys up and like hey we don't know how much
[02:07:48] it's curie we're gonna have for you guys I'm gonna have to go down market street in the middle of
[02:07:52] this stuff so you have to be prepared to fight you know until you get to the to the LZ and they're
[02:07:57] like Rogers that they just got through weapons ready and loaded them up we couldn't send anybody
[02:08:02] with them because we had our ground element so it was just the cat guys and in we ended up we
[02:08:06] went back train though yeah we were we were we were we were we were we were we were we were we
[02:08:13] going back and they're like rock train in both billin and I like fuck cuz there was
[02:08:19] IDs all the time on train and I was like great I only have blown up fucking twice
[02:08:24] yeah so it wasn't just the cat white the respond it was also our highbacks but gonna
[02:08:30] find tech you or company gunning and he got he heard the call when Sanders contacted cat
[02:08:37] white he was on the普通 net so he bounced down there as well and it was our own
[02:08:44] highbacks that they loaded the casualties up into to get him back to the Casio back LZ
[02:08:51] in New Salem and so what did you for you stayed out there
[02:08:55] yes with with with what you Sanders there's three you know and yeah
[02:09:02] yeah San Piano and we'll be did as I waited to the cat guys came and they moved forward
[02:09:08] and we just went around to that position just to clear those two houses and then we got some
[02:09:13] and it we POWs from there and Carbel always with Carbel Hall's team right you know we were
[02:09:21] on the western edge of the HK at an old abandoned mosque overlooking the water and
[02:09:30] he saved it to the west when we heard the gunfire I never heard it I fucking
[02:09:37] grenade I never heard a blast at all all I heard was small arms fired and there was a
[02:09:45] quorum in there with me and Sam our Arab hating atheistic curd linguists that we inherited
[02:09:54] from first to third thank god and so I got those two and yelled at Carbel Hall and we ran
[02:10:04] towards the sound of the fire and there was a black sedan that was backing up out of that
[02:10:13] off that road that that line of vehicles was stacked on so there was a vehicle trying to get the
[02:10:22] fuck out of dodge in reverse we stopped it Sam was there we started searching the trunk and he says
[02:10:29] hey sir they're going to a fucking wedding so let him go so we let him go and I looked down the road
[02:10:38] and certain Reynolds the sniper that we'd put along I could see him next to a line of vehicles and
[02:10:47] he yelled at me to cut off a white pickup truck that was headed south so I like to grasp
[02:10:58] the situation at the time was that they had made contact with insurgents and there was at least
[02:11:04] one vehicle trying to get out of there that we needed to cut off so I grabbed Carbel Hall who is
[02:11:11] who had gotten to where we were at that sedan by that time and we pushed all the way south to the
[02:11:16] train tracks as we were pushing south we saw cat white racing from the direction of east end and
[02:11:30] who said but just across the water they were flying flying east beneath the train tracks
[02:11:43] and we didn't we just we I had no cars I had no fucking radio cars so I I saw it at no clue
[02:11:50] that that was your boys being casivacked correct so we got into the water true in plant
[02:11:56] and and Carbel Hall had no comms on his interest squad radio with we just carried a bitters
[02:12:05] for what radio now we were still using cars yeah PRR at that time so we needed elevation to be able
[02:12:14] to get comms with Donom so we got to the water true in plant which was the tallest
[02:12:22] had tallest building around and Carbel Hall scrambled up to one of the roofs got a hold of
[02:12:28] Sanders and then one of them rings Carbel actually got a visit on so we could tell from his
[02:12:38] perspective how we could get to where they were so he came back down and then we arrived on foot
[02:12:43] at the site and when we got to the site furred were standing there in the middle of the road
[02:12:55] in front of that or maybe behind that white twirlank reserve and I'll never forget he had
[02:13:05] those wiley ex goggles on and he came up to me and he said hey sir Miller and Hampton are
[02:13:16] going to be alright and there's something about his tone that implied that Miller and Hampton
[02:13:28] weren't the object of that fucking statement and I looked him in the eyes and I said
[02:13:36] what the fuck are you saying and he says it's done him so I did largely on popular thing
[02:14:03] and said we got to clear these fucking houses so I stood post on top one of the buildings
[02:14:13] while these guys cleared out the rest of the houses in the vicinity and we pulled in some
[02:14:26] E.P. W's from that right I said whether time date they finished and got back to the site
[02:14:38] furred was explained to me what had happened and I was looking around and they had taken
[02:14:44] the weapons out of that land cruiser and stacked them up against the wall and as I recall there were
[02:14:53] a couple eight days couple RPGs Mark one grenade mills bomb British made grenade looks like a
[02:15:06] pineapple grenade like from over to you know and I saw something else I saw what looked like
[02:15:14] a large chunk of Kevlar and I already knew that the mouss was scrubbing sites of contact when
[02:15:32] I can't read loss that Marine at two Marines pifsy Smith and I can't remember the second
[02:15:38] Marine it was killed in that real-world mine strike in the HK just fucking maybe 200 meters from where
[02:15:44] this thing occurred back on St. Patty's day or sometime around then.
[02:15:51] Two days after that incident, the staffs aren't last for the two and a sudden for cat white
[02:15:57] was on patrol up on diamond and they rolled up a couple of mouss in a black BMW with a pistol
[02:16:03] GPS and as I recall there were grids saved to that GPS that were inside the fucking battalion
[02:16:18] patrol base at the train station in all kind and one of those guys had pifsy Smith's ID card
[02:16:28] so they had scrubbed the side of that mine strike and my first thought was that was probably a
[02:16:40] piece of catlar from the inside of one of those homevee doors because apartment homeveeers
[02:16:48] are those doors are armored with Kevlar on the inside so my first thought was the it's probably
[02:16:54] where it came from but as I'm looking at it I see it's got a familiar shape to it and that's
[02:17:01] the ear scoop on the side of the Kevlar where it drops down from the visor to cover the ear
[02:17:11] and I realized I was holding a fucking piece of a Kevlar helmet
[02:17:16] and I started looking around and I noticed that there were tiny scraps of Kevlar
[02:17:27] covering that fucking road from wall to wall it was probably covering a
[02:17:36] a dam at least a hundred if not greater square foot area there was Kevlar scraps everywhere
[02:17:43] and I called over to fur and I said where's the Dunham's helmet and fur called to his guys and
[02:17:54] they grabbed they went to where everyone's gear was still staged at the CCP behind that wall
[02:18:03] and there was no helmet they couldn't they found the rest of his gear but no helmet
[02:18:10] and I realized that that was his helmet was all over that fucking road and I looked
[02:18:19] to fur and I said let's get this shit picked up the the last thing I wanted
[02:18:28] those fuckers to see the goddamn moves was that they could get to us
[02:18:34] I wanted no sign of weakness that they could latch on to and one of the Marines had a couple
[02:18:44] of two gallons of plug bags in his butt pack you know for water proof and fucking whatever gear he was carrying
[02:18:53] and we filled two two gallons of plug bags with pieces of Dunham's helmet four gallons of
[02:19:07] fucking Kevlar we placed off that road so my assumption was that based on the injuries that
[02:19:18] fur told me about the Dunham had sustained it was that he was probably facing the grenade went off
[02:19:25] and I just assumed the blast had ripped the helmet off his head and blown it apart
[02:19:34] and it wasn't until two days later when I was sitting down with Sanders in the fourth
[02:19:43] two space there would built dividers within that warehouse to give at least the
[02:19:53] tombs they're on fucking space and I was sitting with Sanders on his cot and fur was there
[02:20:02] and we were talking about Dunham and Sanders tells me a story about a fucking conversation that occurred
[02:20:21] like two weeks earlier when when Kevlar four was still attached to Lima you know during a break between
[02:20:31] patrols they were resting in the damn the tune space doing the dark tournament that dark
[02:20:41] tournament we had the white board up and oh man Jason always at the dark board practicing
[02:20:48] board just school and people so this this conversation comes up it's the type of conversation
[02:20:56] that combat Marines have combatants period you take that that metal of honor citation book
[02:21:05] this is thicker than a freaking Bible in my estimation and I used to read from that thing all time
[02:21:13] as an instructor at the basic school probably half citations in that damn book are from
[02:21:22] Marines and soldiers cover the fucking gun right so some Marines think about
[02:21:36] and I'll let Ferd take it from here because he was there for the conversation
[02:21:38] well it was actually the conversation were you there with them when at the back because I remember
[02:21:45] uh you know the tune commander well you all turned look at me and you what do you think
[02:21:51] Hampton Jason said you'd cover it up I said I'd kick it back or pick it up you throw it back
[02:21:59] it's the topic is what do you do with a live grenade what do you do when it rolls to your feet
[02:22:02] what do you do you run I mean I had I just assumed kick it get it away from us
[02:22:13] yeah that don't amount of theory that if you put the helmet on it and then you shoot your body
[02:22:17] on top of it with a sappy plate the helmet and the flag but I'm like the concussion from it is
[02:22:24] still gonna yeah rock your world but that's what they were talking about and the ten robins and
[02:22:31] says besides it is really matter because the grades only got a three or five second fuse and you
[02:22:37] wouldn't have time to cover it with the helmet anyway and then the gentleman looks at him and
[02:22:42] he says really it's all we're back in a second and he goes back to his gear and he shows back
[02:22:48] up with his freaking helmet on and he looks at the lieutenant and he says timing so bull breaks
[02:22:55] out his G-shock and says go and within a second the lieutenant tilted his head forward
[02:23:01] chin strap off the chin and he's slapped the helmet on the deck
[02:23:08] hey something he just thought about he fucking rehearsed that shit he he
[02:23:15] he was so comprehensive in his concern for his Marines he was practicing what to do with a
[02:23:27] fucking life grenade and my fucking job dropped when Sanders told me the story
[02:23:37] and I got right the fuck up and I walked right into the damn baton CP
[02:23:46] Lieutenant Colonel Lopez was in his office and knocked on the hatch and I said sir
[02:23:56] I just found out what happened to Donald and I explained to him what I just heard from Sanders
[02:24:03] and he looked at me and he says okay get it written up so I'm back to the fucking company space
[02:24:13] and I grab bull who'd been a two-commander for all of fucking four months
[02:24:22] that damn second lieutenant being told by his company commander
[02:24:26] to draft a metal of honor citation or many lieutenant's whoever get thrust into that situation
[02:24:36] and all this is unfolding while Kelly and Bill you guys are getting cash back out of
[02:24:57] country where probably by the I don't know we didn't we went to in a condo first or I did I went back to Alkheim the
[02:25:07] Kanye station I was there for fucking I don't know a few couple hours yeah Alkheim the
[02:25:12] aid station and then I went from there I went to Al Assad where they had transported in the
[02:25:19] in the to the helicopter and the the A homie where they can stack us and Miller's on top I'm on the
[02:25:29] bottom he goes to that squirtable hamden what Miller am I still a boot no Miller I just need a clarification
[02:25:42] as again now it's you say it's two days after this event that you're getting you're
[02:25:54] starting to you piece this together you know it's like you had one and now you get the other one
[02:25:58] and now you got one of one equals two you got bull starting to write up the citation for forwarding
[02:26:05] up the chain of command but but one thing that a lot of people especially civilians don't understand
[02:26:12] is that they're still missions to do and they're still a work to be done and it the the enemy
[02:26:21] the when the enemy gets a win they don't back off in fact oftentimes they step it up which means
[02:26:29] we get no rest from a leadership perspective you guys now looking at your troops going okay
[02:26:39] here's what happened we have ops to do what did that look like from your all's perspective
[02:26:46] it was a really busy time we knew that Donald had been cassey backed and eventually it made it back
[02:27:01] a state side to Bethesda we're in the fucking middle of it and on the 17th all hell broke loose
[02:27:18] and that was the day that Rick Ganon and for his Marines from weapons particularly
[02:27:24] McEuney were killed and that that kicked off the battle for his saver and that lasted for three
[02:27:33] freaking days we came out of there on the on the 19th and so that that was a conventional
[02:27:46] attack and defense followed by a sweeping clear within the entire town of saver but then it was
[02:27:56] back to petroleum again right back to it there was no no break and and there was the last thing
[02:28:06] that I was gonna take was a break right because now now we know what the fucking score is
[02:28:19] we've just we've lost a Marine on the 9th in a massive ambush
[02:28:32] now we've lost Donald the rest of the battalion is taking casualties Ramadi is blowing up my
[02:28:39] good friend Chris Bronsy takes 15th of you actually in the 13th coming commander in two four
[02:28:50] is in there and they're in a fight for their fucking lives
[02:28:53] it's going to hell in the hand basket across all of our promise so there was no rest we were in it
[02:29:05] and we eventually got word on that 22nd that Donald passed when he was removed from life support
[02:29:21] so he lived for eight days from point of injury to being in a roof from life support
[02:29:35] with his parents at his side and the common honor of the Marine Corps there as well
[02:29:39] but this was all for us and anecdotal because we're in the middle of it there's no fucking
[02:29:54] break it was just something else that we had to absorb and when I got the word
[02:30:03] that evening when we had a break in patrols I pulled the whole company in and gave them the news
[02:30:16] you know one of the things that that really they this guy Philips he literally interviewed
[02:30:34] like everyone that came in contact with Jason over that time period and this this story as it unfolds
[02:30:49] is very well it's so detailed and it lets you it gives people an insight into not just the front
[02:30:58] line troops whatever that's in that that's in the service and what they're doing the medical folks
[02:31:07] there's a section right here that that harkens back a little bit to that
[02:31:15] it says alasadai rack on the morning of April 14th Becky sparks
[02:31:20] commander of alphasurgical company received an email with new instructions from the chief surgeon
[02:31:25] the first Marine Expeditionary Force the title treatment of expectant patients patients would have
[02:31:31] struck a civilian as out of place in a hospital in the middle of a combat zone but in
[02:31:36] bottom battlefield medicine expectant means quite the opposite of what it does in the far away
[02:31:42] world of maternity words and delivery rooms and expectant mother is expected to create life
[02:31:47] an expected soldier is expected to die so here's the email occasionally in our triage of patients
[02:32:02] in the combat environment we classify patients as expected the chief surgeon wrote
[02:32:08] with multiple casualties these patients have our lowest priority for care but they have the highest
[02:32:13] priority for care for another member of our navy marine core team the chaplain
[02:32:21] an expected patient does not always die
[02:32:25] expectant means you expect something to happen and most often it is death but sometimes after the
[02:32:30] higher priority patients have been treated and expecting patients survives
[02:32:35] their their care should be continued with the resources that can be committed
[02:32:39] heroic efforts may seem to be helpful in the short run but if resources are
[02:32:43] expended when the next patient arrives then you have not helped this latter patient
[02:32:48] this is when judgments are critical and I would dare say that very very few of us have enough
[02:32:52] experience to make these decisions easily when the decisions must be made talk about it
[02:32:58] include your entire team and your decisions move on if the patient is expected
[02:33:02] make sure that he is comfortable and that someone stays with him until something happens
[02:33:09] the patient does die document the death appropriately
[02:33:16] at the seven a.m. staff meeting commander sparks a brisk woman whose all burn hair and bright lipsticks
[02:33:21] stood out next to the black nine millimeter pistol hanging from a shoulder past the chief surgeon's
[02:33:26] message along to her physicians she briefly discussed it with them highlighting the advice
[02:33:33] that doctors revisit the expected ones once they have treated the other patients
[02:33:39] then she moved on to other issues
[02:33:43] that after noon Jason Dunham arrived at Alpha surgical company
[02:33:47] expected to die
[02:33:57] in Alpha surgical companies contingency plan for dealing with mass casualty event
[02:34:03] responsibility for the expected ward fell in the navy dental team
[02:34:08] they had enough general knowledge to push intravenous fluids into a dying man but not enough
[02:34:12] to be much use in the trauma ward operating room or intensive care unit dental technician first
[02:34:20] class Christopher Graham who had helped carry Jason's stretcher in from the helicopter been waiting
[02:34:25] outside the emergency room while the doctors completed their triage after 15 minutes the door opened
[02:34:31] in an and an order emerged from the chaos please take this patient to the expectant ward
[02:34:38] Graham and three other Graham and three other's carried corporal Dunham's litter to a dim white
[02:34:44] tile room with a pair of broken shower stalls a tape above the door red washroom all the saw
[02:34:50] horses were in use elsewhere so the litter team carefully placed the stretcher on the floor
[02:34:54] Graham sat by corpus by the corporal side across from Rachel Sterling a 21 year old dental technician
[02:35:00] third class Sterling had chosen service in the navy because her grandfather and great uncle had
[02:35:06] been in sailors navy lieutenant James L Harris the third a 32 year old dentist from crocket
[02:35:12] Texas joined them in the expected warm ward and did as the chaplain as did the chaplain lieutenant
[02:35:19] lents then they waited for corporal Dunham to die for 45 minutes they spoke to him in soft voices
[02:35:30] holding his hands and stroking his limp muscular arms as lieutenant Harris pushed
[02:35:37] fluids and painkillers into his veins from an IV sack the Marine Corps is proud of you
[02:35:46] and we're all proud of you Graham told him well obviously uh
[02:36:04] Dunham was a fighter and wasn't wasn't wasn't run to give up makes it to Germany and you know
[02:36:19] again I think um she was up in Germany and this is the situation he was in Jason was hooked
[02:36:35] up to a plethora of medical equipment over the course of the day there was an intercranial pressure
[02:36:41] monitor there was a catheter that passed through his eerie footer drain as bladder into a bag
[02:36:46] a line ran into his left femoral artery demonstrators blood pressure and allow the nurses to draw blood
[02:36:51] samples easily he had a rectal temperature probe on the right side of his groin was a triple headed
[02:36:57] catheter running into a vein for IV fluids and drugs there was an endotracheal tube in his mouth
[02:37:04] to facilitate the passage of air between the ventilator and his lungs plus a suction tube to draw
[02:37:09] excess fluid from his lungs and an oral gastric tube to suck out stomach acid compressing sleeves
[02:37:15] on both calves alternately squeezed and relaxed to keep blood moving through his legs to prevent
[02:37:21] clots five pads on his chest monitor is heart rate a blood oxygen monitor was clip on to his finger
[02:37:29] a blood pressure cuff was on his arm in case the automatic reading failed the nurses put a
[02:37:36] sterile plastic cup under each ear to collect the cerebral spinal fluid that continued to drain
[02:37:42] out of his ear drums
[02:37:47] so
[02:38:08] so
[02:38:10] He's in our book edition, horrible condition.
[02:38:17] And...
[02:38:25] He's on the brink of dying this whole time.
[02:38:38] These medical folks in the military are doing everything they can.
[02:38:45] They're making heroic efforts.
[02:38:51] And they want to get him stable enough so that they can get him back to America.
[02:38:59] Adam minimum.
[02:39:02] And they're actually able to do that.
[02:39:06] And of course, at this time, Jason's mom and dad had been notified of that their son had been wounded.
[02:39:16] This is one thing that's... I don't know what the protocol is when someone gets killed.
[02:39:26] There's a knock on the door.
[02:39:28] When someone's wounded, depending on the severity and how well it's known, and I don't know what they do in the Marine Corps.
[02:39:36] In the SEAL teams, they're going to still try and give someone a knock on the door.
[02:39:40] But what Devin Dan got was a phone call.
[02:39:44] Hey, we don't know what's going on. We don't have much information, but Jason's been wounded.
[02:39:50] And if I remember correctly, they even get like a massive amount of criticality.
[02:39:56] They weren't quite sure.
[02:40:02] But they... they do find out that he's coming.
[02:40:07] They get down to DC Bethesda area.
[02:40:13] And Jason, the medical personnel in Germany, are able to get him stable enough to send him back.
[02:40:28] And when he lands back in America, this is what unfolds.
[02:40:39] 39-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Jim Burn was working as a federal prosecutor going after Columbian drug traffickers when he volunteered for active duty.
[02:40:48] He expected to end up at the Naval Base in Guantan, Mobile Cuba, prosecuting the Taliban and al Qaeda suspects.
[02:40:56] He said the Marine Center to Bethesda to head the liaison unit.
[02:41:01] Burn strove to Andrew Zervorspace, Wednesday night, to meet the plane from Germany and watch the crew load Corporal Dunnems litter into a private ambulance waiting on the tarmac.
[02:41:13] Colonel Sat for a few minutes next to Jason. The noise from the plane was deafening and Burn leaned over to speak into his ear.
[02:41:29] Welcome back, hero. We're going to take care of you.
[02:41:34] There's the Colonel's standard greeting for a wounded man.
[02:41:38] Burn had no idea of Jason could hear him.
[02:41:42] But just in case, he explained that they were out the air base where the president's plane landed,
[02:41:48] and that he was going to be taken to the Naval Hospital in Bethesda.
[02:42:05] And when he gets there, this is where his mom and dad, Jason's mom and dad, didn't dad finally get there.
[02:42:17] Get to see him.
[02:42:20] Dan and Deb walked into the room and saw Jason lying naked on his back.
[02:42:24] A towel covering his groin and a catheter tube running to a urine bag by the foot of his bed.
[02:42:30] As head was wrapped in gauze, and the left side of his face was a mask of purple and red.
[02:42:37] He wore a neck brace that tilted his head slightly. Both eyes were still swollen shut.
[02:42:42] And the Dunham's imagined an empty left eye socket beneath the information. His lips and tongue which protruded next to the plastic breathing tube looked parched.
[02:42:51] The ventilator moved his chest up and down in perfect robotic rhythm.
[02:42:57] His feet curled down towards each other in an exaggerated pigeon-toed position.
[02:43:02] Dan thought he looked thin as if his muscles were already fading.
[02:43:07] Deb thought he looked cold. I'd love to put a blanket on him. She said, I know that's the instinct the nurse responded but we're trying to keep him cool.
[02:43:20] Deb sat in the chair on Jason's more heavily damaged left side and Dan sat across from her.
[02:43:25] He chelved one of Jason's hands and they held each other's hands across Jason's stomach.
[02:43:30] We love you. Dan assured Jason, you're going to be all right.
[02:43:36] Hi, honey, Deb said, we're here. You're home and we're here.
[02:43:48] So again at this point, I mean, you guys still are working.
[02:44:15] Did you guys have, I mean, furg you had seen Jason and probably were the most, whatever, aware you know, mentally while you're getting him casivact.
[02:44:32] What were you thinking? Did you think he was going to live? Did you think?
[02:44:38] What I had told the buttoon and what I was thinking is like if he survived the first 24 hours that kind of going along with the known news was good news.
[02:44:47] Things so it was like day four or five and we started having really a lot of hope.
[02:44:52] You know, because at that time, you know, obviously stabilized. We haven't heard nothing by then. So that's what I kind of told the buttoon.
[02:44:59] When I had seen him, I really couldn't tell a lot of his damages and at the time.
[02:45:09] K. L. six told me later that a piece had come up through on the bottom of his throat when straight up. We did not know that at the time because it was just all read the capillary bleeding.
[02:45:17] I was worried as long as that the pressure from the grenade and like I said every day that he lived, I was I was hopeful for it.
[02:45:25] And that's the only thing I could tell the buttoon because you know, they'd asked for every day for updates.
[02:45:30] And that was just. And the biggest thing is we, you know, still had to go work.
[02:45:36] And everything and I remember on the 14th because your body goes through these physical changes that you really can't describe to you do it.
[02:45:44] And when everything happened, you just go off your training and then you don't think about it. But I remember us being at camp.
[02:45:49] And there at Lima's pause. And it was just about the sun was going to set here another hour or so. But we had a roll back roll through that dams town again and go back to our train station.
[02:46:01] But I remember then I felt sick and I had a switch spots with the marine from sitting in the back up against the cab of the home beat to the end. So I could.
[02:46:10] And I was just a little bit dry heave and you know, and then I remember going back that night. I wrote up a statement that was a page and a half long because I knew what had happened.
[02:46:21] And I knew it was going to be middle of honor or navy cross for what do you did? I was hoping.
[02:46:28] But I also remember to waking up in the middle of the night and that train station violently just from the explosion again and hearing that and just sitting upright violently.
[02:46:37] And you know, it's like you can train yourself for that. But until you experience that it's just you can't help that.
[02:46:45] And then I remember some of the marine's being angry and they wanted like retaliation, especially since we had those three enemy POWs.
[02:46:53] But you know, like you can't, we got to get them back.
[02:46:56] Intel, collect all that stuff, the bigger picture thing. But yeah, there was some tough days for the company.
[02:47:06] One thing that it's interesting both both you guys mentioned is like, and this is a double edged sword, but I'll take it is you had work to do.
[02:47:19] And we we're going to have to deal with these things at some point, but you know what when I lost my first guy, Mark Lee.
[02:47:29] We had there's no instruction manual on protocol to follow. There's no there's no book procedure that we could follow. There was nothing like that.
[02:47:40] And it was just me and you know, Mark was the first seal killed in Iraq.
[02:47:46] And you know, there wasn't a lot of experience in dealing with that.
[02:47:52] And what I sent to the guys was, we're going to go back to work. That's what we're going to do. We're going to go back to work.
[02:48:02] And I believe there is something beneficial to that. And one of the things that I noticed a lot when guys do get.
[02:48:14] When they have a hard time. A lot of times I see it's guys that don't have a new mission of some kind. What is your new mission going to be? And that's one of the things that I advise.
[02:48:27] You know, military folks that are that are transitioning out of the military.
[02:48:31] You need a new mission. You've got to have something else to focus on because if you don't do that.
[02:48:37] Then you're stuck thinking about this stuff. And those thoughts. You have to have them right you have to have them. You're going to have them over time. You know, we were talking about this earlier. You're going to have those thoughts over time. You got to sort this out in your head.
[02:48:52] But just like when you have when you get sick and you take medicine, you don't take all the medicine at once. You don't take all the medicine at once. You take it a little bit at a time. And you bring it back a little bit of time. And you you heal up over time. And I believe that's a good thing about having when you're on deployment. Like, oh, guess what we're going to do. We're going to have a ceremony. And then we're going to get back to work tomorrow afternoon.
[02:49:20] And I think that's better. And we don't always get that opportunity. And especially guys that get home and get out.
[02:49:28] It can be really hard because they don't have a new mission. And they're they're trying to take all that medicine at once, which is, which is hard to take. Hard to take all that medicine at the same time. Hey, the medicine is going to be there. Like it's your brain has to get sorted out over time. But take your time with it. And one of the only ways to do that is if you have a new mission, something else to focus on.
[02:49:49] And you guys getting cast of act home. What was that process like? We got split up at the time.
[02:50:00] I made because I was a little more severe than Bill. Yes. So I remember getting picked up from Elsey parrot. And they stuck me at the very roof of the black hawk. All I can see was the ceiling and all I could hear was the blades. And then I must have passed out a little bit on that fight because it was really short. I remember waking up in the time.
[02:50:26] And they were working on my arms. I still couldn't hear for shit. And I was really out of it. But I wasn't. It felt very surreal. Like I could sense everything that was going on.
[02:50:44] And I could see people doing stuff. But at the same time, like I just wasn't mentally processing what was going on. Like the doctors asked me if anything was wrong with my mouth.
[02:50:55] And I didn't say anything. I just reached in and pulled out a tooth fragment and showed it to him.
[02:51:00] It's the non-verbal answer. So I believe Gibson and first of all, and tell me, do you guys come into BAS and see me before I flew out of Batalin Aid?
[02:51:16] I think it must have been. Okay. Because it might have been him and Rob. I can't remember.
[02:51:26] Okay. I remember them coming in and it was right before I was getting pushed out to Elessad.
[02:51:32] Because I think I needed some depregions, surgeries, which I got, not Elessad.
[02:51:37] And basically, once I left Batalin Aid, I was by myself. I didn't have anybody else. And Elessad, I got sweatpants because I was in just boxers.
[02:51:48] And one of the navy people there that muses that phone and I called home. Unfortunately, I regret that because I looked my dad out the dry on that one.
[02:52:00] Sorry dad.
[02:52:01] What was the message? Hey dad got wounded. Guess you're not home sorry. By no he answered. He answered.
[02:52:08] And it was daytime when mom was at work. So I called my dad. I called home and my dad answered and I was like, hey dad, I just want to let you know. I got hurt.
[02:52:22] I'm okay. I'm going to end up in Germany soon. I don't know when. But I wanted to let you know.
[02:52:31] And that was it. He said, okay, I love you. You know, and everything.
[02:52:36] The problem was my mom had a lot more questions. And he didn't have any answers. You know, he was just happy that I called and told him I was okay.
[02:52:47] He didn't think that stuff. So I kind of met him and had up the dry and I wanted. But I think I was in Elessad for two days. I had two depression surgeries. And then they
[02:52:57] Casio backed me out to Germany. And Germany I had two more depression surgeries.
[02:53:05] And I was there for five days. And I was actually paired up with one of the guys that was on the roof that got hit.
[02:53:18] Yeah. And he had taken a bullet in the hip and it traveled down his leg bones and came out of Pinto.
[02:53:26] That was that was the game snack routine that was supporting me through that morning.
[02:53:31] Yes, I can't remember his name. He ended up. Yes. And he has a back to Texas from Germany. Because that's where he was from.
[02:53:41] So once I left Germany, I hit Bethesda for four days. I had one more depression surgery.
[02:53:51] And that was it there. And then I hit Balbo and San Diego. And in Bethesda, my mom actually had phone out to Maryland.
[02:54:02] She was there in Bethesda with me and she flew on the military fly from Bethesda to San Diego.
[02:54:07] She didn't show it. She was, she was amazing.
[02:54:13] The hoop she jumped through to find out when I was getting to Bethesda were pretty impressive. She had an old friend who was retired Air Force Colonel. She got a hold of him.
[02:54:23] He actually found out what has it back fight I was on. And then she rallied her friends to get air miles and flew out and met me there.
[02:54:30] And then in Balbo, I had two oral surgeries and like a seventh depression surgery because my arm had gotten hit so bad. I was swelling. I was basically pushing the muscle out of the wounds.
[02:54:45] So they had to clean that up and I had no function. And I was in San Diego. You beat me to San Diego.
[02:54:55] Because I actually linked up with him there because I was there for a week and a half before they sent me home on comalessantly because I couldn't take care of myself.
[02:55:04] So they just literally here's 60 days go home. So I went back home to Yureka and then Yureka had four more surgeries.
[02:55:12] Two days from being home, I reached out to Gabby, I was a water with my right arm and I had a piece of metal sitting right on my break-al artery. I'm right hand side.
[02:55:20] The flexing from the muscle pushed the piece of shot and go down, ruptured my break-al in my arm, swollen up huge and just caused increased amount of pain.
[02:55:29] So I had to have emergency surgery that night. I was a 12 hour vascular surgery on my right arm where I got a vein for my ankle graft in and a whole bunch of stuff.
[02:55:41] And then two weeks later on my follow up for that doctor, I had my question to talk about my left arm because there was this weird vibration in my armpit. I could feel with my right hand. He puts his hand on my wrist. You have an even officially you're going to for surgery tonight.
[02:55:53] So I had a what? What was it? It's an AV fish. So my break-al artery had a hole in it and also my vein had a hole in it.
[02:56:01] So blood's coming out of my break-al artery and going back into my vein, it's not traveling down my arm, I could supposed to and it creates like a really low they called it three-al but it vibrates and you can feel it.
[02:56:11] I was bad enough. So that was 16 hours. Surgery happened that night.
[02:56:19] And then the rehab started for me. That was eight months of physical therapy, two more surgeries, a lot of cussing, lots of cussing.
[02:56:37] But my recovery process is after the surgery is the Marine Corps tried to medically discharge me. I was broken marine. That was unacceptable to me.
[02:56:51] So Captain Gibson at the time he put me into company office staff. I was the scribe.
[02:57:03] And so I did that while I was rehabbing and when he rotated out we got a new captain. Captain Gibson who is a new company commander and he allowed me to stay on and keep rehabbing. Oh yeah, I'm sorry.
[02:57:15] Captain Ash. And it got to the point where I was banned from his office because he was tired of me asking to go back to my petune.
[02:57:23] And it took me nine months of physical therapy rehab and a lot of getting yelled at to stop asking and Captain Ash told me that I better not bring it up again unless I had a note for my doctor, my physical therapist and my mom told me I was okay and I have to go back to the pechen.
[02:57:43] And my mom, I think I shocked him the next day when I came into the office with a note from my doctor, my physical therapist and my mom.
[02:57:54] I was surprised you got your mom decided off but that's all because she knew I had to because we were gearing up to deploy to our body.
[02:58:01] In the whole time I was like I signed up to serve my four years. I'm not can barely discharged. I signed up to do my four years. So and she kind of she didn't like it but she respected it I think.
[02:58:17] And so he let me go back to my petune and I deployed again but it was it was in need. I needed to prove myself I was meant to die there.
[02:58:30] I had to go back and make sure all my brothers made it back. I had to do what done them did for me. I had to make sure everybody made it back and I just I had to serve my four years. It was this
[02:58:46] I spirit of core drive to do what I signed up to do and I the whole time I went through the emotional rainbow on this journey. It wasn't an easy journey at all.
[02:59:01] I went from self destructive to depression to I thought I was invincible. A lot of a lot of bad choices but in the end I found this path of I'm not fucking hurt.
[02:59:16] I got staples in my arm and I played in a slow pitch softball tournament at home. Got yelled at by my mom. So I've been 21 on a field with 20 of your friends and your mom shows up and starts fucking yelling at you. It's embarrassing.
[02:59:31] That's how I healed is I got so fed up with being hurt that I said fucking I'm not hurt. I'll play well. I'll play one handed. I would have deployed one handed. I'm in shit. I mostly deployed with arm in two thirds because my left arm wasn't strong. I still didn't have full range of mobility. I was good enough to fake and make it look good.
[02:59:56] But it was just about like coping and I had to be around my brothers because if I wasn't around them I probably wouldn't. I would have killed myself some way somehow and I needed them to help me keep grounded to give me a mission.
[03:00:11] My mission was they're going to make it through this one. That was a lot of surgeries. I had to go in for a shoulder surgery because the wall fucking my back and shoulder up pretty good.
[03:00:28] And the anesthesiaologist, you know, they got a talk to you before you're in surgery and she's like have you ever had anesthesia for him? I just got this huge gun. She's like what? I'm like I'm an anesthesia pro. I'm good. Don't worry about me. I wake up from it just fine. She's like how do you know? And I was like, I'm about 16 surgeries deep.
[03:00:51] I got a lot of metal. It had bill. You get Casavac.
[03:00:59] I got a Casavac. I think I went to after the battalion aid station and Miller and I got on the helicopter.
[03:01:09] From there I went to Anna Konda and they pulled some metal out of my leg and stitched me up and then a day later or a couple hours later I was on a flight up the limestone.
[03:01:27] And then from there I went straight into San Diego. Stayed there for about a week or two. Just getting made sure that my hole in my arm wasn't going to be detrimental and then they'd sent me on my conval.
[03:01:53] Where'd you go in convoy with? Back home up the Washington. Washington nice place to conval, huh?
[03:02:03] And one of the hardest things through my hole like getting the metal back out was nobody had any answers for me.
[03:02:13] I was a little bit too short to tell you about the time I didn't know. Nobody else saw a new. I kept asking about Jason. I wanted to know.
[03:02:23] My mom had during the deployment, became a contact with Devin Dan.
[03:02:27] I'm a marine family and my mom was someone that actually told me Jason passed when I was in as Bethesda. But I still in the hospital which told me. I remember it was like crushing.
[03:02:43] Basically just reliving it all again because the whole time I wanted to know and the only news I got really was the bad news.
[03:02:53] And Bill, it sounds like you're the one that actually saw, oh, you saw him with his helmet reached out.
[03:03:01] And you're probably the first person that said, I know what just happened.
[03:03:05] Yeah, I, my sister broke the news to me on the 22nd or 23rd, 24th.
[03:03:13] Whatever, they came down to and stayed at the Fisher House at Bellebo.
[03:03:25] Yeah, when I pulled that rifle back and I was thinking in my head my eyes had gone down and he was right there with right there in front.
[03:03:39] And I didn't, I thought it was helmet and come off during the fight.
[03:03:45] And I was like, all right, hold him. There we go. I'll do this.
[03:03:53] And then it went right.
[03:03:55] Boom.
[03:03:57] You know, I know, talk a lot about decision making and as combat leaders, you got to make decisions.
[03:04:17] You got to make hard decisions. And as hard as those decisions are, I, there's a, the absolute, most horrible of all decisions.
[03:04:35] That I can't even fathom trying to make is one that Dan and Deb were faced with.
[03:04:45] And this is based on the fact that they're getting told that.
[03:04:49] I mean, this, this is what they get told.
[03:04:53] Dr. Don introduced himself and Dr. Mulligan joined them back in the waiting room. Deb fought the 35 year old Mulligan was pretty Dan fought.
[03:05:01] She seemed awfully young for neurosurgeon. Dr. Mulligan spent little time on Pleasantry's.
[03:05:05] The prognosis for your son is grim, she said.
[03:05:09] She explained that the biggest grenade fat fragment of cost so much damage that even if he survived Jason would likely be paralyzed on one side.
[03:05:14] And unable to speak or understand those who spoke to him.
[03:05:18] The swelling of his brain stem had destroyed its ability to keep the body alive unless a machine did his breathing form.
[03:05:24] What you see is what you have, she said.
[03:05:26] He will never be able to hear you or know you are there.
[03:05:30] Mulligan said there was an operation she could do to relieve the pressure and Jason's brain.
[03:05:34] But she warned she wasn't sure that Jason was strong enough to survive the surgery or that.
[03:05:38] I would do any good even if he did survive.
[03:05:41] The damage she believed had already been done and could not be reversed.
[03:05:46] The chances for full neurological recovery are not existing.
[03:05:53] The doctors then mentioned the unmentionedable.
[03:05:56] The Dunham should consider taking Jason off of life support.
[03:06:01] So, they pulled out a copy of Jason's living will which he had signed while serving at the sub base in Georgia.
[03:06:17] They read it together in silence.
[03:06:19] If at any time I should have a terminal condition become an accummer with no reasonable expectation of regaining consciousness or become in a persistent vegetative state with no reasonable expectation of regaining significant cognitive.
[03:06:30] Function.
[03:06:31] Then in any such event, I direct that the application of life is assigning procedures to my body.
[03:06:40] Be withheld and withdrawn.
[03:06:45] And then I'd be permitted to die.
[03:07:13] I'd be permitted to die.
[03:07:18] The Dunham thought that Jason's breathing seemed more labor than before, even through the ventilator.
[03:07:25] I can't sit here and watch this anymore, Dan told Deb,
[03:07:28] Dr. Dunne described how they would disconnect the ventilator and what would happen after work.
[03:07:34] A nurse hooked up a morphine drip to Jason's IV.
[03:07:39] Is he going to feel anything Deb asked?
[03:07:42] The doctors assured her that he would not.
[03:07:47] The Dunham stepped out of the room.
[03:07:49] The medical staff pulled the curtain close and at 4.35 pm the respiratory therapist slid the tube from Jason's throat.
[03:07:57] The nurse turned off the alarm on his heart monitor.
[03:08:03] Deb sat on Jason's right side across from Dan.
[03:08:07] Dr. Dunne stood at the foot of the bed watching Jason and the monitors.
[03:08:13] Lieutenant Colonel Burn and two of his men stood there in silence.
[03:08:20] The Colonel knew he was intruding on a private moment and considered leaving, but this bed was corporal Dunham's final battlefield he thought.
[03:08:40] And Marines don't abandon their brothers on the battlefield.
[03:08:45] A chaplain administered last rights. They leaned over to help Deb remove her gloves and she once again felt Jason's skin as she held his hand.
[03:08:56] Sometimes she reached across and held Dan's hand.
[03:08:59] Sometimes she placed her own on Jason's heart.
[03:09:01] We're proud of you, Dan said.
[03:09:04] We love you.
[03:09:07] Deb touched the side.
[03:09:10] And the bridge of Jason's nose stroked his arms and said it's okay honey.
[03:09:15] You can go now.
[03:09:18] Dr. Dunne watches the blue line on the monitor screen, showered plunging levels in oxygen.
[03:09:23] And Jason's blood has heart rate fell until the green line went silently flat.
[03:09:30] Dunne stepped forward and bent down to listen to Jason's lungs and heart.
[03:09:36] He straightened up, removed the stuff that's got from his ears and said he's gone.
[03:09:44] There was 4-43 pm, April 22nd, 2004.
[03:09:53] Jason's body relaxed and Dan found his son look like himself again.
[03:10:03] Dad put a photo of the Dunne family.
[03:10:07] Then Jason's hand.
[03:10:37] And now we were talking before we kicked this thing off.
[03:10:55] And we were talking about the fact that there's always things that we can do.
[03:11:06] It's always things that we can look at from whether it's a decision you made, whether it's a meaningless decision or one that matters.
[03:11:16] Hey, we step here to go there, do we put this unit over here, do we go over there, do we go down this road?
[03:11:21] Do I go on this side of the vehicle, like there's a million little decisions that we all make, and we all make.
[03:11:29] And it's something that can absolutely.
[03:11:39] It's something that none of us can change.
[03:11:47] And it's something that if we, if you knew the outcome,
[03:11:53] if any of us knew the outcome of the situations that we've been through,
[03:11:57] sure you look back and say, go left and set a right, go forward and set a back, go to that vehicle and set it this vehicle.
[03:12:09] But we don't have that luxury.
[03:12:13] We don't have that luxury of knowing what the outcome is going to be of every decision that we make.
[03:12:25] But we do have.
[03:12:33] We do have control over the decisions we make now.
[03:12:39] The decisions that we make with what we do now.
[03:12:45] And how we handle.
[03:12:49] The things that we've been through.
[03:12:56] And as I hear this story unfold and sit here with you guys, you know, that's what I think about.
[03:13:04] It's not so much the fact that look, there's a million decisions we all made that led to this point in our world.
[03:13:16] We can't control along, we can't take them back, and even if we could, we didn't know the outcome.
[03:13:26] But we have the opportunity to make decisions now.
[03:13:29] And to move forward in the right direction.
[03:13:41] You know, we've been going for a while.
[03:14:02] And I told you guys in the beginning, I was like, yeah, this is going to suck.
[03:14:10] And I was also talking about the fact that like anything that sucks, you know, you gain something from it.
[03:14:16] You make progress.
[03:14:21] You become stronger.
[03:14:22] It's the bottom line.
[03:14:23] You do something hard.
[03:14:25] As an individual and you do something hard, you become stronger.
[03:14:28] As a unit, as you do something hard, you become stronger.
[03:14:33] These things that we go through make us stronger, they make us better.
[03:14:39] And before we close out, you know, I don't know if I just, if you guys want to have one last thought, you know, about Jason, about his impact on you and the decisions that you make now in your life.
[03:15:06] Bill, what do you got, brother?
[03:15:13] I'll keep by myself.
[03:15:16] I'll keep by myself with four kids, two acres and a small farm.
[03:15:24] I didn't grow up hunting.
[03:15:30] But when I got out of the Marine Corps, I took up hunting.
[03:15:34] I got into it. I got my certificate and then went out and applied more or less my infantry to hunting.
[03:15:45] I found that the more time I'm in the woods and the more time I'm out there.
[03:15:56] It's so quiet that I can find myself and I can find peace.
[03:16:05] And when you get, it's an, it is at a challenge though when you're climbing up a hill.
[03:16:14] If you love that hill, is that really work?
[03:16:18] Is that, you get to the top of that hill and I'm up there because Jason,
[03:16:25] I've got kids to teach and to teach how to hunt and they love the idea of it all.
[03:16:36] I've got things to do now because of Jason.
[03:16:41] I've got a life to live.
[03:16:44] I've got four to race and I got my best friend that helps me.
[03:16:51] And she's an incredible woman all together on her own.
[03:16:56] That's, yeah. She's been held, all of them meet together quite a bit and we're going almost 14 years now.
[03:17:12] Yeah, well, everything you just said from the farm to the hunting to raising four.
[03:17:23] And raising four, four kids that will reflect and never forget.
[03:17:30] And that's outstanding.
[03:17:33] I'll stay.
[03:17:35] And yes, your wife must be pretty incredible to put up with you.
[03:17:41] Thinker.
[03:17:43] Freedom part.
[03:17:45] Furg.
[03:17:47] This definitely sucked and I knew this was going to, but I think you know,
[03:17:54] the big picture until his story, everything and just like on that dusty road that day,
[03:18:00] these three, you still have my back and it was tough for all of us to be here today.
[03:18:06] Some more than others. And the main thing is just don't take things for granted to be grateful.
[03:18:16] These guys have families, kids, great lies because of the sacrifice what Jason did.
[03:18:22] We all know that's the greatest actor humanity I've ever witnessed or probably ever will.
[03:18:26] But it's like, his legacy lives on through these guys and what they stand for.
[03:18:32] And you know, just try to take that strength sometimes and go forward.
[03:18:36] But it's amazing with veterans what happens on a grassy null in a waddy in a valley,
[03:18:41] on a dusty road on the Syrian-Iraq border will live with us until we die.
[03:18:46] And it's, I don't know, the brotherhood helps.
[03:18:50] And you know, we love when we miss Jason, happy birthday.
[03:18:54] And thank you for having us.
[03:18:56] I'm honored to have you guys Kelly Boot, which I guess you got promoted for Boot.
[03:19:03] After you got your freaking arms about blown off, you almost made it past Boot.
[03:19:07] That's outstanding.
[03:19:09] You know, for me, my path was, it was long.
[03:19:16] You know, after I got hurt and healed and deployed again and came back,
[03:19:23] I was very, very, very, very self-destructive.
[03:19:29] That was invincible.
[03:19:30] But I was lucky enough to wake up and move on.
[03:19:38] And a lot like Bill, I found a woman in my life who supports me unconditionally,
[03:19:47] but challenges me to not be crippled by what I've been through.
[03:19:51] Otherwise, I probably would be.
[03:19:55] She pushes me to get help and to do things for myself.
[03:19:59] But at the same time, she requires me to be selfless and be present and not get wrapped up in the wash.
[03:20:06] So I'm very fortunate for that.
[03:20:09] And then because of Jason, I have a little seven year old who is my best friend.
[03:20:15] You know, we run them up together, drive mom crazy, laugh, wrestle, hang out, fucking live.
[03:20:27] I get to live because of him.
[03:20:30] Living is the greatest gift, but it's also the biggest burden.
[03:20:54] I've gone through a lot of nights where I wish I was the one.
[03:20:58] I was the boot. I should take an agreement, you know.
[03:21:03] But because my family, I don't wish I didn't fall.
[03:21:11] I've got him and I'll always love him because of what I have.
[03:21:27] It's not a busy laugh.
[03:21:29] Well, you know the best thing to do with that gift he gave you, and you know that every day.
[03:21:43] Enjoy it.
[03:21:45] Absolutely.
[03:21:47] You take that little boy jet that you raised him into a man.
[03:21:52] Oh, yeah.
[03:21:53] Trust me, he doesn't take it easy on me.
[03:21:56] I feel bad for Rick right now.
[03:21:59] Last time I heard he had the boxing gloves on, so.
[03:22:04] No, I just, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have my wife.
[03:22:09] I felt when I had my son and the memories.
[03:22:13] I've been able to get from them how full the whole created from the loss.
[03:22:20] So.
[03:22:27] Well, like I said, it's a gift and just seeing your boy out there, who, by the way, I said,
[03:22:34] Hey, kid, you know, I've written a bunch of books for kids.
[03:22:37] You want to read him and he goes, nope.
[03:22:41] The first person that's ever said that's me.
[03:22:43] You know, most people at least have a little thing in the back of the head to say,
[03:22:46] I'm getting something for free. I'll take it. Not jet. That's it. I'm not here to read.
[03:22:50] I said, cool, I got some padded rooms out there.
[03:22:52] You can go run around and he said, I'll do that instead.
[03:22:55] You found your speed bag and he already asked me if you could get one.
[03:22:58] We'll sponsor that.
[03:23:01] Awesome, man.
[03:23:03] And Trent, what do you got?
[03:23:19] When we were on post deployment leave between LF one and I, all I have to, me, just came back from the cartola.
[03:23:32] My exo Rudy Selsito was patying off through the day one day.
[03:23:37] I was down at Palm Springs at my house.
[03:23:42] He tells me, let me sit, hey, sir.
[03:23:46] Three, four, just dumped 34 Marines on our doorstep.
[03:23:53] There's 34 Marines from our sister, Batai.
[03:23:57] We don't have enough time with three, four to deploy with them.
[03:24:02] So they're cross-decking them to 37 and they'll deploy with us.
[03:24:11] Some of those Marines are going to be coming to Kelo.
[03:24:16] I said, all right.
[03:24:19] And on the first day back from that leave blog at the end of the day,
[03:24:28] I had to first start holding company formation up by the barracks.
[03:24:33] Because we had seven new NCOs, seven new corporals came to us from 34.
[03:24:39] We got seven of those.
[03:24:41] And I wanted to formally welcome them to the family.
[03:24:49] So without the formation, I welcome them aboard and I turned over the formation,
[03:24:58] the first start, and I had him send me those seven NCOs.
[03:25:07] So I stepped back a bit from the formation, standing there in a ditch outside the barracks.
[03:25:17] And I felt it was important to say something to them, something significant.
[03:25:26] So I told them the same thing that I told Kelo the day I took command in Carbelo,
[03:25:32] back in early June, 003.
[03:25:40] I told them, I believe in three things.
[03:25:45] Yes, more heat.
[03:25:52] Is that a leaving to ship by example?
[03:25:57] I believe in self-sacrifice for the greater good.
[03:26:02] And I believe that one man can make a difference.
[03:26:10] That's what I'm expecting from you.
[03:26:13] And that's what you should expect from me.
[03:26:22] Two years later, I found myself preparing a speech for the town people of Siren, New York.
[03:26:31] And during a ceremony in which they would dedicate their post office to their son, Jason Donaldm.
[03:26:48] And Dave Fleming was there. Rudy was there.
[03:26:53] Several Marines were able to make it up for that.
[03:26:57] And Dave had been his particular man for a short time with weapons before the reorganized company.
[03:27:06] And Dave was sharing with me the memory of some anecdote during that time.
[03:27:16] And it started to me the memory of my talk with those seven NCOs that day.
[03:27:26] And one of those seven was done and I realized in a flash that in that moment of utter selflessness,
[03:27:44] he embodied the very essence of those three virtues.
[03:27:54] Leadership by example, self-sacrifice for the greater good and one man making a difference.
[03:28:09] And as for aesthetic, think of no more profound example of humanity.
[03:28:27] The acumen existence.
[03:28:36] And give your life for another.
[03:28:44] It happens. You got three girls in a fucking boy named Jason.
[03:28:51] Two girls two boys.
[03:28:55] We got jet down stairs working at fucking heavy bag.
[03:29:09] Jason.
[03:29:13] And life piggets life.
[03:29:26] A couple of years.
[03:29:42] As the company commander of a metal of honor recipient.
[03:29:59] Something I didn't want.
[03:30:08] I just wished that that could have fucking sub.
[03:30:14] Don't forget the much.
[03:30:21] And one day I walked up a pier.
[03:30:29] That bad thorn works in me.
[03:30:34] I was there for the mass step in ceremony.
[03:30:39] I did it you one-on-one.
[03:30:42] USS Jason Donaldm.
[03:30:46] And nothing can repair you.
[03:30:51] The sea or marines name.
[03:30:59] And I realized that moment when I saw his name there.
[03:31:15] But in that moment of selflessness.
[03:31:25] He transformed an object of personal protection.
[03:31:39] Into an instrument of protection of others.
[03:31:48] And in that moment, he, his actions have created four reaching consequences.
[03:32:06] He never could have duplicated life.
[03:32:18] In that moment, he was born into the heritage of our core.
[03:32:34] And his example will stand alongside of the countless others who created that heritage.
[03:32:48] And will continue to inspire marines and sailors.
[03:32:53] And anyone else who hears his story for years and years and years.
[03:33:15] It's an impacted, I still can't fathom.
[03:33:26] But he is leading by example every day still.
[03:33:35] And today he's 38 years old.
[03:33:39] On the 244th anniversary, the birth of our core.
[03:33:58] And if that isn't something, how into what is.
[03:34:08] It can be used to turn over a well-me.
[03:34:36] And it's pretty easy to be overwhelmed by something like this.
[03:34:45] It's easy to be overwhelmed by an act of such selflessness to make the ultimate sacrifice.
[03:34:57] It's easy to look at that and get overwhelmed by it.
[03:35:03] And maybe think to yourself, well, that was something else.
[03:35:10] That's something I don't understand, that's something I can't relate to, that's something I don't need to think about.
[03:35:17] And I would actually say to you, no.
[03:35:24] That actually is something you should think about, that actually is something you should relate to.
[03:35:28] That is something you should try and pursue every single day to think about.
[03:35:36] To think about every single day that there's a person, a person, a flesh and blood with one life to live.
[03:35:56] And you gave his life for his friends.
[03:36:08] And maybe every day, if you think about not what you can take from the world,
[03:36:21] but what you can give.
[03:36:26] And if you can do that right there, if you can give a little bit,
[03:36:35] and reflect a little bit of Jason Dunham back into the world.
[03:36:46] And then the world will be a better place for it.
[03:37:01] And with that, we've been at it for a while.
[03:37:08] And I just want to thank all of you guys for coming on here for sharing some of these things
[03:37:15] that you learned from him, from sharing it with other people.
[03:37:21] And thank you all, of course, individually for what you all did.
[03:37:26] I can talk to each one of you individually, separately, for hours to hear about what you guys have been through.
[03:37:33] What you've seen.
[03:37:37] So thanks for your service and sacrifice, but thank you for coming here and for honoring your brother.
[03:37:44] Not only in the ways that you're living your lives right now, raising your children,
[03:37:55] but also by telling the story of his life and ensuring that no one ever forgets the sacrifice that he made.
[03:38:06] And I can promise you, we will never forget him.
[03:38:13] So thanks for coming on.
[03:38:20] Happy birthday to the Marine Corps.
[03:38:23] Happy birthday to Jason Dunham.
[03:38:26] And of course, San Profile Dallas.
[03:38:31] Superfine.
[03:38:44] And with that, our guests have left the building, Sergeant Bill Hampton, Corporal Kelly Miller, Staff Sergeant John Furg, Ferguson, and Lieutenant Colonel Trent Gibson.
[03:38:54] Thanks to all of them for coming on.
[03:39:01] And echo Charles has joined us at the table.
[03:39:06] Good evening, echo.
[03:39:07] Good evening.
[03:39:10] You were in the support role on that podcast.
[03:39:15] So I appreciate you manning the controls in the back, keeping things running smooth.
[03:39:23] Obviously, an honor for us to be able to sit here and talk with those men.
[03:39:33] And once again, when we turned off the recorders and we were kind of helping those guys get on out of here and all that,
[03:39:42] they all had places to be and whatnot.
[03:39:48] And we see that they were happy to come on and happy to share the story.
[03:39:53] And I said, guys, I never really thought about this before.
[03:39:56] But I said, guys, imagine if you could sit down and put some headphones on and listen to the
[03:40:05] Pultoon Commander, the Machine Gunner, the Pultoon Sergeant that was out there with John Baslow.
[03:40:13] Imagine if you could do that.
[03:40:14] And then what that would mean to you.
[03:40:19] And that's what it is like for them to come on here and share the story of Jason Dunham.
[03:40:24] So it's an honor for me to be sitting here and to be able to meet with those guys and share that story.
[03:40:33] Heavy as it is.
[03:40:34] You know what I know.
[03:40:35] I know it's one of the heaviest stories that a person can share.
[03:40:41] And to have those guys sit down and go through this, I just want to say thanks to them once again.
[03:40:51] And you know, I, I, one of the most important things that I need to put out about this is that there are some people right now trying to put together a documentary about the life of Jason Dunham.
[03:41:08] And what he did, how it all happened.
[03:41:11] And so the documentary is going to be called the gift.
[03:41:17] And it's a couple of that's a couple of that's are trying to make the documentary.
[03:41:22] So if you want to support them, you can go to Facebook or Instagram.
[03:41:28] They have at the gift documentary.
[03:41:31] And then what they're trying to do is fund it.
[03:41:36] And they're trying to fund it through an indie go-go campaign.
[03:41:40] So if you go to indie go-go, which is a website where they take donations to make things happen.
[03:41:50] And in that in that on that indie go-go campaign, it is called the gift documentary.
[03:41:56] So if you can try and provide some support so that this story can be told in detail.
[03:42:05] And rolled out to an even larger audience.
[03:42:09] So check that out.
[03:42:12] And if you can, try and help them out to move forward with this project.
[03:42:19] In hearing this story, I guess Echo, you know, I also told those guys about how we sort of decompress after these things.
[03:42:27] And how that is an actual thing.
[03:42:31] And what we just did is we just decompressed with the guys. Once we got done, we kind of took a breath, we walked outside.
[03:42:37] We started having some normal conversations about life and wild bills, show me pictures of hunting and his kids,
[03:42:45] and we're running around with jet and just doing a decompression.
[03:42:49] So that's awesome. You've got to do that.
[03:42:52] And that's sort of how we started this whole support, support segment.
[03:43:00] Yeah, was we did a podcast.
[03:43:03] It was one of the early podcasts that was really heavy.
[03:43:05] And when we got done, I was like, hey, I need a moment over here to decompress.
[03:43:08] Why don't you talk for a minute?
[03:43:10] And so that's kind of where it came from.
[03:43:13] And the good thing is if you don't want to listen to this, it's fine.
[03:43:16] You don't need to, you can just press stop and we're good.
[03:43:19] You can go carry on with your day.
[03:43:20] If you need to decompress a little bit with us, cool.
[03:43:23] You can hang out. We're going to hang out for a little bit till we get a little decompressed.
[03:43:27] And you know, one of the things that it is good to reflect on how do we take what we just heard,
[03:43:34] which is heavy and turn it into something that we can actually utilize.
[03:43:39] As far as I'm concerned, we got, you know, when you hear a story like Jason Dunham,
[03:43:45] we get charged with living the best lives we can, being the best people we can.
[03:43:52] And you heard this from all of these guys.
[03:43:54] How can we live better, do better?
[03:43:57] So that's what we're here for.
[03:43:59] You know, looking at our lives and say, what can we do better in our lives?
[03:44:03] How can we get better?
[03:44:04] How can we be better?
[03:44:05] That's what we're looking at.
[03:44:07] And I know you know some ways echo Charles.
[03:44:10] Yes sir.
[03:44:12] Did you get better?
[03:44:13] What's one of the primary ways that you can think of?
[03:44:15] Do you do?
[03:44:16] Okay, so here's the thing.
[03:44:18] You get asked this.
[03:44:19] I get asked this the other day.
[03:44:21] Somebody presented this problem to me.
[03:44:24] This whole problem of like, look, we are tribal in nature and the tribes are gone.
[03:44:31] And we used to hunt and all these things that we've got to talk, gone.
[03:44:34] And now we got cell phones and people don't talk.
[03:44:36] This whole big, this whole big societal problem.
[03:44:40] And said, what do you think we should do about this incredibly powerful societal problem that we've got of people being disconnected?
[03:44:50] We've not been forming any tribes anymore.
[03:44:52] We've got to let me, hold let me a promise.
[03:44:54] And I was like, oh yeah, all that just trained you, just to.
[03:44:56] Yeah.
[03:44:57] And I'm not even getting it.
[03:44:58] Yeah.
[03:44:59] I'm actually serious.
[03:45:00] Oh, you got, you want to connect with people, you want to be part of a tribe, you want to be healthy, you want to hunt, you want to get out your aggression.
[03:45:07] Cool, I got an answer for all those things.
[03:45:09] You want to be intellectually stimulated, cool, I got an answer for that.
[03:45:12] One else.
[03:45:13] I got an answer for it.
[03:45:14] It's called jujitsu.
[03:45:15] So go find a jujitsu gym.
[03:45:18] Start training.
[03:45:19] Is what I'm saying?
[03:45:20] Yes.
[03:45:21] Do you concur?
[03:45:22] 101% agree.
[03:45:24] That's good.
[03:45:25] I'm glad I got that extra one percent.
[03:45:26] So, well, you know, it's one of these things where, you know, I'm over here estimating your passion and your enthusiasm for the whole situation.
[03:45:35] So, and then you ask me if I agree.
[03:45:37] So, I do agree 100% numerically and technically.
[03:45:41] The extra 1% is because your enthusiasm, I'm reflecting 100%.
[03:45:47] You know, 100% got it.
[03:45:48] Plus 1.
[03:45:49] Got it.
[03:45:50] Even I feel even stronger.
[03:45:51] In my estimation now.
[03:45:52] I like it.
[03:45:53] I'm not going to tell you how you feel, of course, but given my interpretation.
[03:45:58] So, I'm looking at Instagram.
[03:46:00] I don't call it the ground.
[03:46:02] Instagram.
[03:46:03] If you're changing.
[03:46:04] I'm looking at Instagram.
[03:46:06] And I follow this one.
[03:46:07] I forget what it's called.
[03:46:08] It's called like houses or something like this.
[03:46:10] You know, the ones with all the nice houses.
[03:46:12] Right.
[03:46:13] It's called houses.
[03:46:14] Okay.
[03:46:15] Maybe.
[03:46:16] But there are like huge, like, mansions man.
[03:46:20] Like, so this one, I'm looking at $25 million.
[03:46:22] You just like, it's a hotel size house.
[03:46:25] Mm-hmm.
[03:46:26] And I'm in the market, are you?
[03:46:27] I don't know.
[03:46:28] I got your zero qualification set at 25 mil.
[03:46:33] I like it.
[03:46:34] That you're max price.
[03:46:35] You don't want to go over that.
[03:46:36] Yeah.
[03:46:37] You know, I should be a little bit reason.
[03:46:40] So, I'm thinking to myself, you know, you thought
[03:46:43] you thought they just rolled through your head, you know, all of, you know, a bunch.
[03:46:46] And then so I'm thinking, I wonder who owns that house right now selling it right now for $25 million.
[03:46:52] Who owns a $25 million house?
[03:46:54] And why?
[03:46:55] And what are they doing in there?
[03:46:56] Hmm.
[03:46:57] Do they have mats?
[03:46:58] Do they?
[03:46:59] Or do they pull a bars?
[03:47:01] Yeah, sure.
[03:47:02] Yes.
[03:47:03] That too.
[03:47:04] But at the end, I concluded with this sort of thought that drifted me off of the current house.
[03:47:08] I was like, okay, what if what kind of money do you have to have to be like,
[03:47:12] sure, all by that, of $25 million house?
[03:47:15] Hmm.
[03:47:16] So, let's say that, let's say you have $5 billion.
[03:47:20] Let's just say, for example, whether you think that's a lot or not, a $5 billion.
[03:47:25] The average person, namely me, does not have $5 billion.
[03:47:29] I don't have $5 billion.
[03:47:30] Would $5 billion make a difference in my life financially?
[03:47:34] Well, yeah.
[03:47:35] But what if someone offered you, this is just the thought I write that, what if someone offered you five billion
[03:47:40] dollars?
[03:47:41] So, you could have afforded to buy that house, but I don't know.
[03:47:44] Please, many mats as you want to say.
[03:47:45] What if they offered you five billion dollars?
[03:47:47] But here's the thing, you could never change your job to again.
[03:47:50] We have no reason for the mats in the house.
[03:47:52] Yes, no reason.
[03:47:53] But, so, would you take that $5 billion?
[03:47:55] No.
[03:47:56] And I'll tell you why not.
[03:47:57] Not only on the premise and principle, but also, then you're putting your soul at hazard.
[03:48:04] You can just bought now.
[03:48:07] You sold out.
[03:48:08] Because next thing they're going to be coming now.
[03:48:10] No, no, no, no, no, no.
[03:48:11] That's a slippery slope.
[03:48:12] It's a slippery slope.
[03:48:13] Well, so don't give up the jujitsu for anything.
[03:48:16] No amount of money.
[03:48:17] Yeah, no amount of money.
[03:48:18] Don't give up yourself.
[03:48:19] You sell for money.
[03:48:20] Right.
[03:48:20] For money.
[03:48:21] But that's why I'm not.
[03:48:22] That's why I'm not.
[03:48:23] I don't have a 25 million dollar house in California, just FYI, 1.1% sales tax or property tax.
[03:48:30] You're paying, what, to over $250,000 a year in property tax on that
[03:48:37] property.
[03:48:38] So just FYI, if you're in the market for the $25 million house, think about how you're
[03:48:44] going to cover that tax scenario.
[03:48:47] Because it's not a good scenario.
[03:48:49] Right.
[03:48:50] So if you have $25 million in the bank and you'll be like, hey, I'll just buy the house.
[03:48:52] It'll be good.
[03:48:53] Yeah.
[03:48:54] I got $25 million.
[03:48:55] It's just in the form of a house.
[03:48:56] No.
[03:48:57] Things will be some taxes on the one.
[03:48:58] Yes.
[03:48:59] A lot of ones will be hardcore too.
[03:49:00] So, but, okay, you got it.
[03:49:02] I dig it and I agree.
[03:49:03] Don't sell your soul for money.
[03:49:05] No.
[03:49:06] Just the fact that you sell your soul for money, that's a bad thing.
[03:49:08] I get it.
[03:49:09] They actually made me angry as you, as you approached the offer, which I kind of knew
[03:49:14] was coming, that actually made me mad.
[03:49:16] Just the fact that you were going to approach me with that was making me mad.
[03:49:21] Yeah.
[03:49:22] Like, oh, you think you can buy me.
[03:49:24] Yeah.
[03:49:25] Okay.
[03:49:26] Well, technically I was not approaching you.
[03:49:27] I approached myself with it when I was leaning, been looking at this program
[03:49:30] I was just butt.
[03:49:31] Unless, here's the question is, would you do it?
[03:49:34] The soul selling thing aside, principally, the principle of that.
[03:49:39] That aside, would you do it?
[03:49:41] Like, basically you're giving up, do you do it for something massive in your life?
[03:49:44] Some massive, like, improvement in your life.
[03:49:46] Things, no.
[03:49:48] I wouldn't.
[03:49:49] And I didn't even have to think of, no, no way.
[03:49:51] Is that's like saying, would you kill your mother kind of, well, that just depends on who you are.
[03:49:55] But it's like one of those deals where it's like no amount of money.
[03:49:58] You know, and that's just to train.
[03:50:00] Not to mention, like, oh, you lose all your duties in knowledge or something.
[03:50:03] I was thinking about a lot of things.
[03:50:05] You and deep on this.
[03:50:07] Unless that's how you're sitting around bigger about this kind of stuff.
[03:50:11] Because I know you're waiting for something.
[03:50:13] You're waiting for something.
[03:50:14] Yeah.
[03:50:15] Hey, you know, so, uh, because you're going to keep training jiu-jitsu.
[03:50:18] Yeah.
[03:50:19] Where we restabber at point.
[03:50:20] That's how much jiu-jitsu it means.
[03:50:22] $5 billion price tag on that amount of money.
[03:50:25] Not even close.
[03:50:26] Check.
[03:50:27] All the money in the world.
[03:50:28] No, negative.
[03:50:29] And the last.
[03:50:30] So, and people who train jiu-jitsu, they know all this stuff.
[03:50:33] Maybe they have that feeling, maybe they don't.
[03:50:35] But the last jiu-jitsu in your life, improvement, 100% improvement.
[03:50:38] If not more.
[03:50:39] Agreed.
[03:50:40] Or concur.
[03:50:41] 100 and 1%.
[03:50:43] Oh, there you go.
[03:50:44] So, when you do jiu-jitsu, when we do jiu-jitsu, we're going to wear the geek.
[03:50:47] Because we're not doing just no geek, right?
[03:50:49] Maybe.
[03:50:50] Maybe good, I guess.
[03:50:51] But you could.
[03:50:52] When you get a prize.
[03:50:53] Get the origin geek.
[03:50:54] 100% various options there.
[03:50:57] So, originmain.com.
[03:51:00] This is where you get all the stuff we're about to talk about.
[03:51:01] Originmain.com has American made stuff.
[03:51:06] Which reminds me, you know, we were talking on the podcast, you know, with this crew that was in here about what these young Americans do stepping up and making something.
[03:51:17] It's also, we got the Americans, young Americans in our workforce.
[03:51:22] And guess what they're doing?
[03:51:23] Stepping up and rebuilding the country.
[03:51:26] Up and main.
[03:51:27] What do we got?
[03:51:28] We got Americans of all ages up there.
[03:51:31] Working.
[03:51:32] Bringing manufacturing back to America.
[03:51:35] So, you don't necessarily have to go overseas to represent, to support our country.
[03:51:42] You're at here, here in our country building our economy.
[03:51:45] That's what you're doing.
[03:51:46] And if you want to help build our economy and bring manufacturing back from overseas and rebuild communities that would devastated.
[03:51:54] Go to originmain.com.
[03:51:57] Get a geek, get a rashguard.
[03:51:59] By the way, for no geek, get a rashguard.
[03:52:02] You can get jeans.
[03:52:04] Yes, sir, you can.
[03:52:05] Yeah.
[03:52:06] You know, if you're an American, we know, factually you have jeans, probably three pairs.
[03:52:09] At least.
[03:52:10] Yeah.
[03:52:11] Get a pair of jeans.
[03:52:12] Don't just settle on a pair of jeans made in China.
[03:52:16] See, yeah.
[03:52:17] And I was going to say something like that too, but I'm like, wait, but I don't want to like, you know.
[03:52:21] Disparage.
[03:52:25] But here's the thing though.
[03:52:26] When you look at your jeans, you know, or your jeans, like, man, there's a different, because I have other jeans.
[03:52:32] Yeah.
[03:52:33] Face it.
[03:52:34] I'm, you know, I'm old school.
[03:52:35] You do, huh?
[03:52:36] You didn't put those in the fire.
[03:52:37] Okay.
[03:52:38] No, no, yeah, that's cool.
[03:52:39] But you look at it.
[03:52:40] And one is made straight up.
[03:52:41] The cotton, like, one is made in America.
[03:52:44] Grown in America from the seeds from the cotton.
[03:52:46] You know, all that stuff.
[03:52:47] One is that.
[03:52:48] And then one is sort of made in giant after.
[03:52:50] Are you said it?
[03:52:51] It's like, man, it's in you kind of want to throw them away.
[03:52:54] You see what I'm saying?
[03:52:55] So it's like, okay, I'm going to choose, hey, look, I dig it.
[03:52:57] Like if you're going budget or something like this, like, like, super, but, and I get it.
[03:53:01] But it's face it at the end of the day.
[03:53:03] You don't want that one.
[03:53:04] You want the American made ones.
[03:53:05] I think we do.
[03:53:06] You want to support freedom.
[03:53:09] That's the part of the sport.
[03:53:10] You're going to support.
[03:53:11] Yeah.
[03:53:12] America.
[03:53:13] You want to support democracy.
[03:53:14] You get yourself a pair of origin jeans.
[03:53:16] I think so too.
[03:53:17] Yeah.
[03:53:18] I think that's what we're talking about.
[03:53:19] T-shirts.
[03:53:20] If you wear joggers, which I don't, you know, so I'm not going to sit here and tell you,
[03:53:25] you get joggers.
[03:53:26] I don't wear them.
[03:53:27] I think you just wear joggers.
[03:53:28] And when I wore joggers one time I tried them on was laughing.
[03:53:32] I showed my family and they were laughing in my wife was like,
[03:53:35] please, and I said, no problem.
[03:53:38] I took them off.
[03:53:39] Never to be worn again.
[03:53:40] But you wear joggers.
[03:53:41] Well, I wear them a lot less now because jeans.
[03:53:44] I don't know.
[03:53:45] I probably because the jeans.
[03:53:47] I've been wearing the shorts.
[03:53:48] Oh, yeah.
[03:53:49] Or it's in shorts.
[03:53:50] But I wore joggers the other day when I was working out.
[03:53:53] Working out joggers are good, especially for jogging.
[03:53:56] Imagine that.
[03:53:57] But I don't do as much jogging anymore.
[03:53:59] Unless I was wearing them the other day.
[03:54:00] Working out.
[03:54:01] But I'm wearing them as much as I wear the shorts.
[03:54:03] It's like a set.
[03:54:04] Anyway, other stuff too supplements.
[03:54:06] Okay.
[03:54:07] So supplementation.
[03:54:09] It's just been proven.
[03:54:11] What do you mean when you bang your head against the brick wall?
[03:54:14] Right.
[03:54:15] That expression.
[03:54:16] Accidentally doing that.
[03:54:18] I'll forget to be in the routine of taking the krill oil and the joint warfare.
[03:54:21] I'll forget.
[03:54:22] Then I'll get these aches.
[03:54:23] And I'll be like, oh, then you remember.
[03:54:25] Oh, I'm not as consistent.
[03:54:26] Right.
[03:54:27] When you get back consistent, it'll all your little pains go away.
[03:54:30] That's for real.
[03:54:31] Yeah.
[03:54:32] So it's like, okay, me forgetting to take it, you know,
[03:54:35] a day two days, three days, four days or whatever.
[03:54:37] Just that little thing is jamming up my whole physical, like,
[03:54:41] element of my whole thing.
[03:54:43] And it's a sense of what you're reducing.
[03:54:45] You need to take some discipline, go or discipline of any kind,
[03:54:48] the which will help your your your motor neurons or your your neurons in your brain
[03:54:54] to remember to take your other supplements.
[03:54:57] So you don't get aches and pay it.
[03:54:59] Here's why.
[03:55:00] And I kind of analyzed it like literally 10 seconds before I started talking about it.
[03:55:04] Which is scary.
[03:55:05] Yeah.
[03:55:06] Well, you know, that's my typical time of.
[03:55:08] Yeah.
[03:55:09] And now let's just be first.
[03:55:10] So the.
[03:55:11] What it what I do is I take and I'm good.
[03:55:14] I don't have any aches and pains.
[03:55:15] So why what it won't be on the front of my mind.
[03:55:18] You seem saying, if I do have an acre, but what better take this to our fair
[03:55:21] to freaking help this problem I have no problem.
[03:55:24] No problem.
[03:55:25] Forget about that thing.
[03:55:26] I want to call out a.
[03:55:27] I'll decide.
[03:55:28] I'll decide.
[03:55:29] I don't mind.
[03:55:30] Check.
[03:55:31] So get that.
[03:55:32] Get some of that.
[03:55:33] Get some milk for your additional protein that literally taste like dessert.
[03:55:36] My daughter got two daughters in college right now.
[03:55:40] She sent me a. We'll call it a text message.
[03:55:44] Sure.
[03:55:45] That was a picture of a peanut butter moch shake.
[03:55:49] And of course, in C. Z. 18 year old girl.
[03:55:52] The caption on it said literally.
[03:55:56] A peanut butter chocolate milkshake.
[03:55:59] That's what she wrote.
[03:56:01] And then she called me to tell me about it.
[03:56:03] Well, okay.
[03:56:04] She said that.
[03:56:05] She was like that.
[03:56:05] It's literally.
[03:56:06] She said it's literally.
[03:56:08] She mixed it with coconut milk.
[03:56:12] Regular milk ice cubes peanut butter moch.
[03:56:17] Literally.
[03:56:19] Literally.
[03:56:20] A peanut butter chocolate milkshake.
[03:56:24] Yeah.
[03:56:25] So that's too.
[03:56:26] Is there a risk there is in my experience there's a resurgence of the word literally.
[03:56:30] The kids are saying now.
[03:56:31] Are you serious right now?
[03:56:32] Yes.
[03:56:32] You got your just noticing that.
[03:56:33] What are you talking about?
[03:56:34] I noticed it a little bit ago.
[03:56:35] You bought it since you kind of jogged my memory.
[03:56:38] You can't say it anymore.
[03:56:40] Don't say it.
[03:56:41] Well, it's off limits now.
[03:56:43] Why?
[03:56:44] Because that's what these.
[03:56:45] That's what my 18 and 20 year old daughters say.
[03:56:49] Right.
[03:56:50] So people even think that you're like trying to be trendy saying it.
[03:56:52] Or they just think you're dumb.
[03:56:54] Yeah.
[03:56:55] Because what I do with my kids as I won't even say any other part of the sentence.
[03:56:58] I'll just say literally.
[03:57:01] Well, I wouldn't recommend that.
[03:57:03] But here's the thing about the word literally literally.
[03:57:06] Yes.
[03:57:07] It has another definition.
[03:57:08] No.
[03:57:09] It's just like an exaggeration of emphasis.
[03:57:11] Yeah.
[03:57:12] It's like it doesn't have literally anymore.
[03:57:13] That happens.
[03:57:14] That happens.
[03:57:15] That's the way the English language evolves.
[03:57:17] That's why when I was studying English, I realized English was like two
[03:57:21] Jitsu because it adopts other words from other languages and they become a part and the
[03:57:27] languages, the words that are in the language can more than change as needed.
[03:57:30] Yeah.
[03:57:34] But this case is kind of particular because literally means something that's either it is or it isn't.
[03:57:37] Like all these other ones, most other words, they sort of like, eh, I can see what you mean by that.
[03:57:41] But let's say this.
[03:57:42] No.
[03:57:43] Here's two examples.
[03:57:44] Like and goes.
[03:57:47] Go.
[03:57:48] Yep.
[03:57:49] Okay.
[03:57:50] Because whatever 30 years ago goes, there was zero definition for goes that man, he said this.
[03:57:57] All right.
[03:58:00] Yeah.
[03:58:01] Because now it's all then he goes and then he was like, and she was all.
[03:58:03] That's the tune.
[03:58:04] So there you go.
[03:58:05] Oh yeah.
[03:58:06] That's another one.
[03:58:07] Oh, she's all like this.
[03:58:09] She goes all like this.
[03:58:10] Well, here it is.
[03:58:11] But I mean in a different way because literally means something.
[03:58:14] It's like turning the word yes into no officially.
[03:58:17] You know what I'm saying?
[03:58:18] So literally means literally there's no version of literally either it's literal.
[03:58:22] The literal sense of something or it's simply not.
[03:58:24] There's no in between.
[03:58:25] Yeah.
[03:58:26] But now literally literally doesn't mean literally anymore literally.
[03:58:29] So literally just means very much so or I felt it very much seems same and the kids, they're
[03:58:36] researching that definition.
[03:58:38] That's all they're saying it.
[03:58:40] Well, you literally dying when I saw this.
[03:58:43] Yeah.
[03:58:44] Literally dying.
[03:58:45] No.
[03:58:46] You're barely.
[03:58:47] So that's that.
[03:58:49] Origin main.com and get some jokko-white T-wilder there, which is which will literally give you
[03:58:55] an 8,000 pound out of that.
[03:58:58] So there you go.
[03:58:59] Yeah.
[03:59:00] In the first and foremost meanings of the word definitions literally you will actually
[03:59:06] and literally be able to guaranteed deadlift 8,000 pounds.
[03:59:09] Cool.
[03:59:10] All sorts.
[03:59:11] When you get the gift of valor or any other books.
[03:59:14] We got it on the website, jokko.
[03:59:16] Podcast.com and the little sex says books from podcasts from the episodes.
[03:59:21] Also.
[03:59:22] We have a store.
[03:59:23] Jokko as a store.
[03:59:25] It's called Jokko store and it's at jokko store.com.
[03:59:29] Got some stuff there.
[03:59:30] If you want to represent T-shirts and whatnot, discipline equals freedom, hoodies, light
[03:59:35] and heavy.
[03:59:36] Rashcards.
[03:59:37] Rashcards.
[03:59:38] More Rashcards.
[03:59:39] Yes.
[03:59:40] Representative.
[03:59:41] More directly of the path.
[03:59:43] He saw some representation today out on the mat side.
[03:59:46] Modest.
[03:59:47] Check.
[03:59:48] Hats.
[03:59:50] Hutties.
[03:59:53] What else?
[03:59:54] Some good stuff on there.
[03:59:55] You know.
[03:59:56] So yeah, check it out.
[03:59:57] Jokko store.com.
[03:59:58] If you want to represent while supporting while on the path.
[04:00:01] So you can do it big time.
[04:00:03] Also subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already.
[04:00:07] I'm not going to say you have to subscribe.
[04:00:09] And I'm not going to say I want.
[04:00:11] I wanted you to have to subscribe.
[04:00:13] I'm not seeing that.
[04:00:14] I'm saying if you want to subscribe, subscribe.
[04:00:17] Fair enough.
[04:00:18] And also if you want to subscribe to the grounded podcast.
[04:00:22] We actually have another podcast if you can imagine that.
[04:00:24] We talk about life.
[04:00:26] We talk about jiu-jitsu.
[04:00:28] And it's a little more free flowing.
[04:00:31] Free flowing.
[04:00:32] Free flowing.
[04:00:33] What was it?
[04:00:34] It's right.
[04:00:35] That was the turn.
[04:00:36] Yeah, okay.
[04:00:37] So that's a grounded podcast.
[04:00:38] Yeah, it's a little bit more like, like, like the format, I guess, or the content.
[04:00:45] Is it like, as, oh no, for like a better word?
[04:00:47] Yeah, or even official, or, but it's very,
[04:00:51] Levels of her officiality.
[04:00:53] Yeah, you know, but it's more, yeah, you'll go off on tangents.
[04:00:56] And then there's the warrior kid bondcast, which someone told me on Twitter that it's been so long since they got a warrior kid bondcast that their kids stop asking about it.
[04:01:07] So that hurts and I'm working.
[04:01:10] I recorded another one.
[04:01:11] So we'll release.
[04:01:12] We should probably just release those couple.
[04:01:15] And then you've got warrior kid soap at irisokes ranch.com.
[04:01:20] If you need to stay clean, you might as well use the soap that young aid and the warrior kid is making.
[04:01:26] And then don't forget about YouTube, which we have a YouTube channel.
[04:01:30] Where you can see what Bill Hampton, Kelly Miller, Furg, and Trent Gibson.
[04:01:37] You can see what everyone looks like during this podcast.
[04:01:43] And also echo Charles makes highly enhanced videos with lots of explosions,
[04:01:51] special effects, and other, what's the call when you make the words move around typography?
[04:01:57] Yeah, typography doesn't want to connect.
[04:02:00] Kinetic typography.
[04:02:02] Kinetic things.
[04:02:03] So you can watch, you can check that out.
[04:02:05] There's a lot of people watching the YouTube.
[04:02:08] You know, there's, there we have a ton of videos.
[04:02:12] There's a lot of videos.
[04:02:14] I don't know the number, but it's a lot of videos.
[04:02:17] Yeah, check for that number.
[04:02:19] Yeah, because we do excerpts as well.
[04:02:21] Oh, like little excerpts of this.
[04:02:23] Yeah, you know, what's weird is most people in the think of an excerpt.
[04:02:26] They think two minutes.
[04:02:28] And for some reason when you think of an excerpt, you think 14 minutes.
[04:02:32] Sometimes, yeah, you know why?
[04:02:33] Because the definition of excerpts just changed when I started uploading stuff.
[04:02:37] It literally changed excerpts excerpts. 13 minutes. That's the part of the definition, no?
[04:02:42] No.
[04:02:44] I have, I have a thing called psychological warfare that is short.
[04:02:52] Very, very short things.
[04:02:54] One to two minutes long, because you can press play on your recorder or whatever.
[04:02:58] iPhone, Android, you know, Samsung or whatever.
[04:03:03] You can press play on that and it'll give you a little boost if you need a little psychological warfare against weakness
[04:03:10] because it's going on all the time.
[04:03:12] MP3, whatever.
[04:03:13] Wherever you get your MP3 plus stuff, there it is.
[04:03:15] We've got flip side canvas as well, which is visual cues, visual spots to help you come over overcome psychological weakness.
[04:03:25] Or if you just want really bad ass stuff hanging up in your place of work or home.
[04:03:30] My brother, Dakota Meyer, is making those down in Texas, made in America.
[04:03:36] So get some of that.
[04:03:38] We got some books.
[04:03:39] This book right here that I referenced in Reddit,
[04:03:42] Bunch from today on this podcast, it's called the Gift of Valor, a war story by Michael M.
[04:03:47] Phillips.
[04:03:49] It's, and you could see, I mean, I read a tiny fraction of the book and even with the four guys that were there in the room.
[04:03:57] There's still details that this book goes into Michael Phillips that incredible job researching this.
[04:04:04] He says he interviewed every person that's named in the book he talked to.
[04:04:07] So think about that and there is name after name after name.
[04:04:11] So fantastic book, check that one out.
[04:04:15] And then, of course, I have a new book coming out.
[04:04:19] It's called Leadership Strategy and Tactics Field Manual.
[04:04:24] It's coming out January 14th. Here's the deal.
[04:04:28] If you want it order it now for two reasons.
[04:04:32] Number one, you'll get the first edition, which you want.
[04:04:36] And number two, you'll get it when it comes out.
[04:04:39] Otherwise, if you don't order it now, you're going to be on that group of people that get hit that week.
[04:04:45] They go, oh, it's out now. I'm going to press, I'm going to press buy right now.
[04:04:50] And then they press it and it says, oh, shipping in three weeks. Why is that?
[04:04:54] Because it's sold out. Why did sell out? Because you didn't press buy that thing pre order.
[04:05:00] That's what you need to do pre order. So pre order, that way also look, I'm not going to say anything to you.
[04:05:05] When you bring that book to me to sign, I'm not going to say, oh, I'm not inspecting really.
[04:05:10] Right.
[04:05:11] Externally, you're not.
[04:05:12] But they did in this particular one.
[04:05:14] They made for me it literally says on the inside flap.
[04:05:19] It says first edition.
[04:05:22] They did that for me.
[04:05:24] So that way, I don't have to be all obvious about it, but I'm going to know where you stand.
[04:05:28] What are you going to do? Are you going to like, let's say, like, hey, jocals on my book or whatever.
[04:05:31] I'm just going to initial next to it.
[04:05:33] Yeah, you're really going to circle in.
[04:05:34] No, what TSA does, they do like a little check of your, your, uh, boring pass.
[04:05:39] Yeah.
[04:05:40] And they do a little initial next to it. I'm just going to do that. Like, oh, first it.
[04:05:43] Cool. You're good.
[04:05:44] Okay.
[04:05:44] So you're not going to throw it in your face.
[04:05:45] So you're not going to point out the second edition third.
[04:05:47] Yeah.
[04:05:48] Yeah.
[04:05:49] I'm not going to call people help for it, but I'm going to know and they're going to know.
[04:05:52] Yeah.
[04:05:53] We're all going to know.
[04:05:54] And you're not going to feel comfortable.
[04:05:55] You're going to go to like, initial the second edition, then you're going to like,
[04:05:58] Um, overtly like not do this.
[04:06:00] I'll be like, um, and I'll just give you a little second intro here.
[04:06:03] This one.
[04:06:04] Yeah.
[04:06:05] I don't, don't not like you, but we all know where you stand.
[04:06:08] So if you want that leadership strategy in tactics field manual, you've, you've now read it.
[04:06:14] Yes, sir.
[04:06:15] Where are you at?
[04:06:16] Well, evaluation was it.
[04:06:17] Here's the thing.
[04:06:18] I don't want to run the rest of disparaging any of your other books, but I'm saying, this
[04:06:22] seems to be the front runner.
[04:06:23] There.
[04:06:24] Sorry, guys.
[04:06:25] I'm going to call.
[04:06:28] I called.
[04:06:29] That extreme ownership.
[04:06:30] I didn't get to reading until I already knew extreme ownership.
[04:06:33] Okay.
[04:06:34] You know what I'm saying?
[04:06:35] So I'm reading.
[04:06:36] I'm like, cool.
[04:06:37] Cool.
[04:06:37] Cool.
[04:06:38] I didn't say I know, but I get it.
[04:06:39] It was familiar.
[04:06:40] Then that kind of music.
[04:06:41] Okay.
[04:06:42] This is impressive.
[04:06:43] I dig it.
[04:06:43] But it was.
[04:06:44] You did always talk about that.
[04:06:45] Yeah.
[04:06:45] No.
[04:06:46] So I'm, I'm, I'm not saying it.
[04:06:48] This wasn't the case for this, but just the way it's laid out in this cohesive way.
[04:06:51] This is like, it seems like a little bit more like, um, given the time that I wrote,
[04:06:57] or read it, given the sequence of how to like the chapters are or whatever, given my very specific experience.
[04:07:04] I enjoyed it a lot better.
[04:07:05] Sorry.
[04:07:06] That's the truth.
[04:07:07] It's really good.
[04:07:08] Check.
[04:07:10] You're going to be dead to life.
[04:07:12] But that's.
[04:07:13] I know.
[04:07:14] Sorry.
[04:07:15] Oh, that's cold blood.
[04:07:16] Uh, also got some kids books.
[04:07:18] Way to worry, kid three.
[04:07:19] Where there's a will.
[04:07:20] That is out there.
[04:07:21] And that means we also have way to worry your kid marks mission.
[04:07:24] Also those two books are available to series.
[04:07:26] And then we got Mikey in the dragon for the little ones.
[04:07:30] Order that.
[04:07:31] Get it.
[04:07:32] And then we have the original field manual field manual.
[04:07:35] Zero zero one, which called this funny.
[04:07:38] Who's freedom?
[04:07:40] Which is still.
[04:07:43] A great book to get for people.
[04:07:48] That you know.
[04:07:49] I mean, I can't even narrow it now.
[04:07:50] I was going to try to narrow it down.
[04:07:51] But then I'm like, well, is it the person that's on the path?
[04:07:53] Off the path?
[04:07:54] No, no, it's like everyone.
[04:07:55] Everyone.
[04:07:56] Yeah.
[04:07:57] So there's that.
[04:07:58] And the audio version of that is actually on MP3.
[04:08:02] And oh, we have people that are wanting leadership strategy and tactics.
[04:08:05] Yes, I am reading the audio.
[04:08:06] So there's that.
[04:08:08] We also have extreme ownership.
[04:08:11] And then he got him leadership.
[04:08:13] The first books I wrote with my brother, Dave Babin, quem.
[04:08:16] Contrary to what Ecos says, those books.
[04:08:19] Yeah.
[04:08:20] So we're saying that our powerful.
[04:08:22] That is literally not what I'm saying at all.
[04:08:24] Yeah.
[04:08:26] Okay, understand.
[04:08:27] Other way.
[04:08:28] And so.
[04:08:29] Three.
[04:08:30] Three ownership is like.
[04:08:32] The number one selling bus business book, since it came out.
[04:08:35] But apparently that wasn't going to work out.
[04:08:37] Yeah.
[04:08:38] You know, for my very specific experience.
[04:08:39] I'm just saying you know how.
[04:08:40] like let's say you eat sushi. Just don't it? Okay, just learn it.
[04:08:45] Just open it. In the spirit of accuracy, maybe I won't know it as much as maybe I
[04:08:51] should. But unless I was telling the truth, given my time and the personal
[04:08:56] experience, it gave the whole thing back that way. This is it. Life not
[04:09:01] buying it. Check. And the economy leadership. Those those those those books are
[04:09:06] the roots of the lessons that we learned in combat that you can then take and
[04:09:09] apply to your business to your life to your world. We also have
[04:09:13] Ashland front, which is our leadership consultancy and what we do is solve
[04:09:17] problems through leadership. Go to Esslonfront.com. If you want to have me or any of
[04:09:23] the team come and speak at your company, go to Esslonfront.com. Don't Google
[04:09:30] Jocco speaker because they're going to get through a speaker's agency and it's a
[04:09:34] middleman. You don't need the middleman. You can go to Esslonfront.com. That's my company.
[04:09:38] And we will get it booked and come and make it happen. We also have EF online
[04:09:44] which is online training for leadership. And it's EF online.com. This is how
[04:09:52] you can get your entire company aligned behind the same leadership principles.
[04:09:56] So check that out. If you need it, we have the master coming up. The next
[04:10:04] one that we're doing is December fourth and fifth in Sydney, Australia. Listen,
[04:10:08] every time I say we're going to Sydney, Australia, 100 people ask me, what about
[04:10:13] Brisbane, what about Taiwan, what about the ask me all over Southeast Asia. And as a
[04:10:18] matter of fact, a guy just wrote to me on Twitter, only because I said no one
[04:10:22] on the go in the city, Sydney. And someone said only going to Sydney is like
[04:10:26] doing a tour of the New York of the tour of the United States and only going to New
[04:10:30] York. And I haven't responded yet, but that's actually what we do. We don't like
[04:10:35] the first. We did one mustard. Oh, we did it in San Diego. The next year we did
[04:10:40] another mustard. We did it New York and then we did another one. We did two the
[04:10:43] next year or something like that. So the guys right, that is what we're not
[04:10:48] we're not going on tour. We're not a rock band. As much as as much as we may
[04:10:52] be feeling like it, we're not a rock band. We have jobs and the jobs are
[04:10:57] echelon front. So we're out working with companies all the time. What we do is
[04:11:01] occasionally we take the time to go and do an event for a large group of people.
[04:11:05] That is what the mustard is. We're not going to tie one. We're not going to
[04:11:08] Hong Kong. We're not going to Melbourne. We're not going to Perth. We're not
[04:11:12] going to Brazil. We're going to Sydney. That's where we're going. So if you
[04:11:15] want to come come and that is at extremotorship.com. And of course now we have
[04:11:23] EF Overwatch and we also now have EF Legion. So if you need to hire people
[04:11:33] for your company, go to EF Overwatch or EF Legion. Check out what we've got
[04:11:38] going to be taking combat proven leaders and placing them into civilian
[04:11:43] companies. And for you, that's out there. Go to those websites and get your
[04:11:48] information put in there for when you transition. That's what we do.
[04:11:54] EF Overwatch.com and EF Legion. And if you want to have more
[04:12:01] information from myself. If you want to have more information or random
[04:12:08] thoughts from Eko Charles, we are available on the interwebs. We are on Twitter,
[04:12:15] on Instagram. And on Eko is at Eko Charles and I am at
[04:12:24] Jockel Willink. And once again, the gift to support that, the Facebook is
[04:12:29] the Facebook and Instagram is at the gift documentary and the Indigo Go campaign
[04:12:35] is the gift documentary. So check those out. And once again, thanks to the
[04:12:44] 37 Marines that joined us today, Kelly Miller, Bill Hampton, John Ferguson,
[04:12:49] Trent Gibson, and to the rest of our service members that are out there in the
[04:12:56] Army Navy Air Force Marines at Coast Guard. Thanks to all of you for what you do
[04:13:03] every day. And to Corporal Jason Dunham. Thank you for giving us all an example to follow,
[04:13:17] an example of courage and leadership and humility. An example as a warrior, and as a human being.
[04:13:30] You are a true hero and inspiration. And we will do our utmost to live
[04:13:39] life worthy of your sacrifice, Semper Fadilles. And until next time, this is Eko and Jockel, out.