Jocko Podcast 201 w/ Ryan Manion: "The Knock at the Door"

2019-10-31T05:55:08Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @RManion 0:00:00 – Opening 0:07:35 – Ryan Manion 2:24:46 – Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:32:54 – How to Stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/jocko-fuel/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko 3:00:16 – Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

I let those emotions all go so then when it did happen it was like I guess when you do this idea of like preparing right where your it's almost like I knew this was coming like you hear people like I knew it I knew it right like I had no idea and so to have something shock your system that much I think it kind of rewires you where you're kind of waiting for that next shock to the system and you know you lead on throughout the book and and I've had other things that have that have happened since where I know like there no one is void of having something happen you know whether it's random in nature I've had a lot of random crappy things happened to me you know over the last several years I guess it's similar again this is something I just talked about with Jim Sersley who was on the last podcast was in Vietnam and the range of level of fear that guys have going into combat there's some people that are scared they're like they think they're gonna die right and I'm I'm definitely a a jumpier person you know like I hear something like what happened you know we're before I was not like that I was kind of like um you heard something you know you talk a little bit about that more here you say the fear and paranoia that follow in the wake of grief can create a tremendous roadblock it stunts our personal growth and darkens our overall sense of well-being some people respond to unexpected and trying situations with passive acquiescence and others with fire and fury I responded by heightening my vigilance after Travis's death I found myself compelled to be wary I was always on the lookout for the next great tragedy to befall me this hurled me down some very dark and troublesome paths from panic attacks to self-destructive behaviors but also led me to some amazing gifts like recovering my sense of humor and living with intention what self-destructive behaviors did you pick up I mean I think you know self-destructive in a way that you know I stopped kind of taking care of myself you know and they're like what could you have you know the image in your head of someone with dying of stage four cancer like she just she didn't look like that and what were you thinking this whole time I was very pragmatic I was like my mom's dying in eight months I did not um my dad on the other side was like I'm not listening to that like there's there's miracles happen every day we just got to you know stay the course things will see if there's trials you know they're trying all sorts of different holistic diets and and I was very much um supportive of that let's try everything and anything and I would be like okay Janet like like I roll like why don't we just try to get like a thousand people at the run next year you know that would be like a cool goal and there was all these people around much different scene than the chaos around Travis's death I'm sitting there and I'm like I need you to do this this is my ulogy I want you to go home go back and make these revisions on the computer print it back like I was running the show I'm like I'm in charge I'm taking over I'm going to make sure all this is getting done and we do the most beautiful tribute to this woman and after that I kept going just with that same like do do do like grind every single day whatever it may be and then it was that Christmas party where and my husband again you know he's he he has some insight yeah can you give me an example of just one so you know there's like the breathing techniques of course like for me a lot of it was like the breathing because I would get to like these peaked peaked feelings of anxiety where you know it was like fighter flight I've experienced like when something really bad happens, like when I've lost friends and I wake up in the morning and for like three, literally three seconds, you know, the alarm clock goes off and I, you know, shut off the alarm clock and I, and everything's like totally normal for like for three seconds. and and it and it doesn't come as as often but like you said you know 50 60 years out a service member talking about his friends like that's never going to go away and nor what I wanted to exactly exactly you continue on here like anyone who is received a jarring knock at the door literal or figurative and that's what's important and you again since I'm jumping around this book you know there's the metaphorical knock at the door that a service member's family can receive but the knock in the door can be anything sure anything that is unexpected in your life and everyone's going to get him in your life you're going to get a knock at the door that you want to do what your mom did which slammed the door and don't let it come in but it's coming when I played the video that part for some reason when you you're like two mice on and it's you know and especially if you have kids you're like oh man you know you're sending your kid off into the crazy world you know kind of on his own it's like man it kind of like it's not more runny right which I probably had some conversations with like that about with my kids you know where you know my daughters they'll say like I just don't feel like doing anything right now it was like well that means you need to do something but it was that each and every day and I got to the point where I'm like I'm having mental health issues right now like this is not just a isolated event like something's something's happening here and to have me go sit on a couch with a therapist was like for me that was that was a big deal and a big deal because you thought you're too you're too strong for this you know it And I think that's why my dad's just like, I'm going to stand out in this driveway, you know, with Colonel Gardner, because he's just like, and then the rest is like, all these women and people are coming up like, what do you need? I don't subscribe to anybody that thinks that your physical health is not 100% tied to your mental health like you know I used to think my dad was incredibly insensitive when I would try to talk to him about like you know ailments of the mind and he would tie it all back to like you know well if you ran or well they broke down some of your outtakes and just did like it's like a minute long like wait is it bloopers it's not bloopers it's like thoughts from jaca like no it's cool and I hit it for a while I didn't tell my husband and tell my friend like I told no one because I'm just like so you know I was like you don't want your husband to say shut up I'm tired exactly what I was like has time so I didn't he's like I thought it was really like heavily focused on the military he's like these are like my key grips and they were like Yeah, I mean, my, I remember in high school, my girlfriends and I, we follow him around the Philadelphia area to his wrestling matches and we were like his main cheering squad in the front row and I'm like, that's my brother, the all-american wrestler, you know, I was so proud of him and it was, it was really cool to grow up with someone that even he was younger than me but that I could look up to so much, you know, and I think at the end of the day he helped me from not going too far off the rails, you know? I failed a plenty of things rather it was because I didn't care enough about anything to give it much effort I was sometimes apathetic Travis was ambitious Travis was the ambitious goal oriented one I was just coasting through life after he died and then my mom died I had a major wake-up call now I feel I feel compelled to take advantage of the time I have left on this earth to lead a life they both can be proud of and I think that's a good place to stop on my readings from this book to lead a life that they can be proud of because that message right there is just a powerful message and it's a one that I know that I think about every single day every single day I think about that and mind you we've only covered like a third of this book right here right there are stories and lessons from Heather and from Amy and like I said hopefully I can have them on but you know the doctors tell us like you've got eight months to live with treatment if you decide to go to the treatment route it's just gonna help prolong you we're gonna give you about eight months my mom never really took that and was like she didn't do one of these I've got eight months to live this is what I'm gonna do she was just like and he's he's he's he's people like you gonna run the marathon he's like I'll never run a marathon again he's like I run to live my life like it's all it's all for maintenance for him I'm dying here on Christmas night and and it was my husband being like in you know he's like shut up you're not dying I'm tired and it was hearing those words like I'm tired I'm like and I know what I know the reasoning behind it if I can look back and like psychoanalyze myself when Travis was in Iraq I was not worried about him and when he was there the first time when he was there the second time even though I knew the second deployment was different I was aware of that because my husband told me he's like hey this is gonna be different you know I've had conversations with your brother

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocopontcast number 201.
[00:00:04] With echo Charles and me, Jocca Willink.
[00:00:07] Good evening, I go good evening.
[00:00:12] I had left my daughter Maggie with my parents
[00:00:15] while I and my business partner drove a few minutes away
[00:00:19] to look at a vacant store right in the heart of town.
[00:00:22] As soon as I saw it, I knew it would be perfect.
[00:00:26] As the landlord was putting the lease in my hand from me to sign,
[00:00:29] myself on rang.
[00:00:31] And I saw it was my mom.
[00:00:33] Thinking she was just checking to see when I would be back,
[00:00:37] I ignored the call.
[00:00:40] When my phone immediately rang again,
[00:00:43] I knew something was up.
[00:00:45] My initial fear was that something happened to my 10-month-old daughter.
[00:00:50] My mind went to the worst place and at the time,
[00:00:54] I didn't think anything could be worse than that.
[00:00:56] When I answered the phone,
[00:00:59] all I heard on the other end were muffled screams.
[00:01:04] It was clearly a noise made by someone who was so broken up
[00:01:08] and in such a state of shock that he or she couldn't even cry properly.
[00:01:16] I didn't know how to prepare myself for whatever news I was about to receive,
[00:01:20] I started shaking uncontrollably.
[00:01:23] Tell me what happened, I cried.
[00:01:25] I was terrified that something horrible had happened to Maggie.
[00:01:31] Had she tripped and split open her head,
[00:01:34] choked on something, my mind was running wild with possibilities.
[00:01:37] Not knowing was almost worse than knowing at this point.
[00:01:41] Have you called an ambulance I yelled?
[00:01:44] Yes, answered the voice on the other phone.
[00:01:47] Before the line suddenly went dead.
[00:01:50] I knew that I was too upset to drive.
[00:01:53] I asked my business partner to take me home.
[00:01:55] A five-minute drive I had traveled countless times before,
[00:01:58] but this time those five minutes felt like an eternity.
[00:02:03] And while the car was crawling through the streets,
[00:02:05] my mind was racing at 1,000 miles a minute.
[00:02:07] My husband wasn't work about an hour away.
[00:02:10] While I wanted the comfort that his voice would bring,
[00:02:13] I decided not to call him until I got home to the house
[00:02:17] and could figure out what was going on.
[00:02:20] I didn't want to upset him if I didn't have to.
[00:02:22] As we pulled onto my parent's street,
[00:02:24] my heart started racing as fast as my mind.
[00:02:28] I didn't see an ambulance anywhere inside.
[00:02:31] For a moment that gave me a sense of relief.
[00:02:33] Maybe things weren't as serious as I had led myself to believe.
[00:02:38] My dad was standing in the driveway next to a friend.
[00:02:42] Lieutenant Colonel Korky Gardner.
[00:02:46] He and my father had served together in the Marine Corps.
[00:02:48] And he was a deer friend of the family.
[00:02:54] He and his wife lived about 45 minutes away,
[00:02:56] so it struck me as odd to see him standing there.
[00:02:59] Especially since my parents had not mentioned he would be coming over.
[00:03:06] I jumped out of the car while it was still moving.
[00:03:08] Where's the ambulance I screamed?
[00:03:10] My dad stared back at me with a blank look.
[00:03:20] Then in a very measured tone, he said,
[00:03:26] Travis was killed.
[00:03:30] I heard those words loud and clear,
[00:03:32] but they didn't make any sense to me.
[00:03:35] It took me a few seconds to process what I was being told.
[00:03:38] Since the moment I hung up the phone,
[00:03:41] I'd known something was wrong,
[00:03:42] but this was far worse than anything I could have imagined.
[00:03:46] I thought my daughter was an imminent danger.
[00:03:48] And here I was being told that my brother was dead.
[00:03:55] He was 26 years old.
[00:03:57] And that right there is an excerpt from a book called The Knock at the Door.
[00:04:09] Three gold star families bonded by grief and purpose.
[00:04:14] And this book is written by Ryan Manion,
[00:04:18] who wrote that opening section,
[00:04:20] who is the sister of US Marine First Lieutenant Travis Manion,
[00:04:24] who is killed in Iraq, is also written by Amy Looney,
[00:04:29] Hefferman, the surviving spouse of Lieutenant Brendan Looney,
[00:04:34] a seal officer killed in Afghanistan,
[00:04:37] and the other author, the final author, is Heather Kelly,
[00:04:43] the surviving spouse of First Lieutenant Robert Kelly,
[00:04:48] a Marine Corps officer, also killed in Afghanistan, and you may recognize these names,
[00:04:58] because I've talked about all these names on this podcast.
[00:05:04] I read a speech on podcast, number 162 about two brave Marines, Jonathan Yale,
[00:05:12] and Jordan Herder, who held the line at an outpost
[00:05:16] while being attacked by a vehicle born bomb,
[00:05:20] and these two brave Marines stood their ground and stopped the vehicle before
[00:05:23] and entered their outpost, and killed many more of their fellow Marines,
[00:05:30] but the bomb did detonate, and it killed both of them.
[00:05:36] And that speech was made by a Marine Corps general, General Kelly.
[00:05:41] Then I mentioned, when I read that speech,
[00:05:47] that General Kelly's son was killed in action,
[00:05:51] and that was, that was First Lieutenant Robert Kelly,
[00:05:56] and then you may have heard me talk about Brendan Looney,
[00:06:00] a seal that I put through training,
[00:06:03] who was loved by his brothers and the teams,
[00:06:07] who was a few days from coming home after a tough deployment in Afghanistan,
[00:06:15] who volunteered to go on a turnover operation,
[00:06:19] and was killed in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan on September 21, 2010,
[00:06:26] and when I talked about him, I spoke a lot about his best friend,
[00:06:32] Travis Mending, and I talked about Travis Mending,
[00:06:34] as well when I had Brian Stan on the podcast.
[00:06:38] Well, Travis Mending was killed in action on April 29, 2007,
[00:06:42] and I went into detail around the relationship between Travis and Brendan,
[00:06:50] who are buried next to each other,
[00:06:52] that are only to national cemetery, when I had Travis's dad on the podcast number 72,
[00:06:59] and we discussed his book, which is called Brothers Forever.
[00:07:07] And this book that I'm reading from today, the knock at the door,
[00:07:13] this gives a different perspective,
[00:07:19] a perspective of pain and of anguish, but also of surviving
[00:07:25] in overcoming and of moving forward through the pain
[00:07:32] and to a place of pride and a place of purpose,
[00:07:36] and it is an honor to have one of the authors of this book with us here today,
[00:07:43] Ryan Mending, sister of Travis Mending, to share some of what she has learned.
[00:07:49] So, Ryan, thank you for coming out here, and thank you for coming on the podcast.
[00:07:56] Yeah, I'm really happy to be here, and happy to talk a little bit more about the book.
[00:08:03] This is a tough way to start off a book.
[00:08:06] Yeah.
[00:08:06] With, I mean, what's got to be the worst day of your life, I'm assuming,
[00:08:12] or at least write up there.
[00:08:13] 100% the worst day of my life, and it's interesting to hear you reading it,
[00:08:22] you become a little dis sensitized when you're putting things on paper,
[00:08:26] and when you talk about it a lot, but to hear you reading it,
[00:08:30] it definitely brought a motion, it's in the way that you read too,
[00:08:35] but it kind of brings you back to that place.
[00:08:39] Well, whenever I read something like this, not only am I thinking about
[00:08:46] what you went through, what your family went through, but I'm also thinking about how many times this
[00:08:52] happened to my friends, my friends, families, and the pain and anguish that this causes.
[00:09:00] And yeah, you titled the book The Knock of the Door, and for anyone that doesn't understand this,
[00:09:11] the military has a very well-defined protocol that they take when a service member is killed
[00:09:21] overseas, and it's a personal notification, which is actually a great thing compared to what
[00:09:29] they used to do, and I don't know if you've ever seen the, what are those little messages that
[00:09:33] they used to send? Yeah, like a telegram message, that's right, it was a telegram, they would send a telegram
[00:09:38] that said, you know, dear Mr. and Mrs. Smith, we're sorry to inform you that your son Barry Smith
[00:09:46] was killed in action around this day, in around this area. So at some point,
[00:09:55] someone smart realized that that was a horrible way to notify families, so they have a very strict
[00:10:01] protocol, and what the protocol consists of is uniformed personnel from the service branch that the
[00:10:08] service member was in, going to the home and knocking on the door in full dress uniform.
[00:10:16] And it's these days what's become challenging about it is it's a race against social media and
[00:10:22] it's a race against the news. So when you have, when you're overseas and one of your troops are killed,
[00:10:29] there's like immediate radio silence, you're not allowed to tell anyone, because it's all to prevent
[00:10:34] the family from finding out that this has happened on the news, and let's face it, even with this
[00:10:40] protocol, which is designed to try and support the family as much as possible. I mean, it's, it's still
[00:10:46] just an absolute, it's just an absolute nightmare, and it's the worst fear of any family. That has a
[00:10:54] service member on an active duty deployed, the worst nightmare for all of us.
[00:11:03] And I think you did a great job of capturing how that, how that impacts. Now, before we go further
[00:11:10] down this story, I want to give a little bit of background between you and Travis, and I
[00:11:16] think it's, it starts to tell the story of of your relationship with him. I'm going to the book here.
[00:11:23] Travis and I had been born only 15 months apart. So to say we were close, we'd be an understatement.
[00:11:28] The fact that ours was a military family also brought us closer than most siblings.
[00:11:33] Like many military families, we had to adjust new situations very quickly until I was 12 when my
[00:11:38] dad left active duty before that we had moved almost every two years. We knew that no matter where
[00:11:44] we moved next, no matter what school we ended up in or which sports teams we'd be on,
[00:11:49] be the new kids on. We always had each other to depend on. Travis had been my built-in best friend
[00:11:57] at every stage of my life. What about the sister brother dynamic? Did you, well, you were older,
[00:12:10] so were you kind of like the, I mean, I was the denominator. I was the older sibling. Yes, there
[00:12:15] is no doubt about that. It was funny. I was having a conversation with someone last night and they
[00:12:20] were asking me about my relationship with Travis and I said, you know, Travis really did look
[00:12:26] up to me and sometimes I didn't fair him well because I was a bit of the wild child and
[00:12:34] you know, I wasn't always listening to my parents and so I could kind of skew him in the wrong
[00:12:40] direction and you know, looking back on things, I look at who my brother was and he was very driven
[00:12:50] even at a young age. There was something different about him and you know, I talk about a little
[00:12:58] bit in the book. Like I felt like at times like what happened to that piece of DNA for me because I didn't
[00:13:03] have that drive. I didn't have that commitment to to goals or anything of that sort. But, you know,
[00:13:09] along with that came this idea that in the way that he was, I admired him so much. It wasn't a
[00:13:17] a jealousy. I wasn't like, oh, you know, there's great Travis or, you know, I was so proud of him
[00:13:23] and I was so proud to have him as my brother. So that's pretty unique. Yeah, I mean, my, I remember
[00:13:29] in high school, my girlfriends and I, we follow him around the Philadelphia area to his wrestling
[00:13:35] matches and we were like his main cheering squad in the front row and I'm like, that's my brother,
[00:13:39] the all-american wrestler, you know, I was so proud of him and it was, it was really cool to
[00:13:45] grow up with someone that even he was younger than me but that I could look up to so much, you know,
[00:13:51] and I think at the end of the day he helped me from not going too far off the rails, you know?
[00:13:58] It's weird and you got three children. I have three children. So I have four children and it's weird
[00:14:03] how an always trying to explain to people that they're going to be different. Oh yeah. You know,
[00:14:07] they're going to be different and you just kind of have to brace yourself as a parent. Which it sounds
[00:14:13] like your parents and to brace themselves for you. Oh, my dad braised himself for many, many years, many,
[00:14:19] many years and you know, growing up, I mean, I, I was an athlete and, um,
[00:14:26] the rest board said you put. I played lacrosse through, you know, I played every sport,
[00:14:31] growing up soccer basketball, everything but I played lacrosse through high school and college.
[00:14:37] And my dad always said, you know, between you and Travis, like you were the born athlete,
[00:14:44] like you had athletic ability, it came naturally to you. Like Travis had to work hard every
[00:14:49] thing he did. Travis played on, um, I remember we moved to Pennsylvania. He played on a CIO football team.
[00:14:55] And he was a short little chubby kid and his nickname was pork chop. And, you know, and
[00:15:04] Travis had to work to become who we became. I glided right through, never worked at anything,
[00:15:11] still got some money to go to school for college and play lacrosse and I look back now and I'm like,
[00:15:15] God, if I don't even apply myself a little bit like and really try to work at something.
[00:15:22] So it's weird that's a, that's a trait, right? Like this work ethic thing. Yeah.
[00:15:27] It's a trait that some people have and some people don't, I don't know, but, uh,
[00:15:33] what's it, I heard a quote, I heard a quote from one of my Brazilian friends and he said,
[00:15:38] there's a, there's a saying in Brazil that there's a reason that God doesn't give wings to a snake
[00:15:47] because if he did, we'd all be screwed because the snakes could just fly around and kill you.
[00:15:52] So that's like what happens, right? You can have that awesome work ethic, but you maybe don't get
[00:15:58] the full athletic capability that is optimal or you can be this really gifted athlete, but, you know,
[00:16:04] you like to party. Yeah. That, that, that pretty much describes it. Yeah. And it's cool that you,
[00:16:14] it's cool that you didn't have this jealousy thing going on, right? Well, I guess you were
[00:16:18] in a accomplished athlete as well. So I guess it really, really wouldn't be there. Yeah, it was that,
[00:16:22] but more than that, it was also like, hey, my parents were so focused on Travis that I could kind of
[00:16:28] slide by with a lot of things. You know, it was like, hey, you know, we're, we're taking Travis to
[00:16:33] Lehigh for the, the nationals for wrestling. I'm like, sweet, I'm going to have a rager at the
[00:16:38] house this weekend. So would you legitimately do that? I legitimately did that. When your parents were
[00:16:43] gone, you would have ragers. Yes, several times. And you, and, and did you ever get caught?
[00:16:50] So I'll tell you a story. It was my brother, senior year, he was going to wrestle at the national
[00:16:55] perhaps. It's, it's huge. I mean, it's the huge, is tournament he's going to wrestle in. And he goes up to,
[00:17:03] he goes up and we, my best friend and I, my mom took us out to breakfast. And she's like, I'm
[00:17:11] taking out to breakfast before they left. They were heading to Lehigh for the weekend.
[00:17:15] And my girlfriend, Kristen, I are sitting there and my mom says, doesn't say to me, she says,
[00:17:20] Kristen, look me in the eye. You are not having a party at my house this weekend. And Kristen said,
[00:17:27] I promise Mrs. Man, and we're not going to have a party. She said to this, this day, it's the,
[00:17:32] like, she's like, I lied to your mom's face. Yes, straight up. I mean, we had, we had the
[00:17:37] pegs being delivered, like, you know, within the hour after they were gone. And the party got a
[00:17:43] little out of control. We were, you know, we had all these upper classmen show up. It was, and I'm like,
[00:17:49] oh my gosh, you got, it got ahead of us. And so finally, we get everybody out. The house is trashed.
[00:17:54] And so, like, my core group of friends were cleaning up the house, we're trying to get everything
[00:17:59] taken care of. And I tell my mom, buddy, there must be 12 bags of trash. And I said, take this trash.
[00:18:05] You're on trash due to get it out of here, get it in a dumpster. So he leaves with the trash. And
[00:18:10] I'm feeling pretty proud. I'm like, I think, I think we can cover this up, you know?
[00:18:14] So my parents come home the next day. And, you know, my mom walks in and she's kind of like looking
[00:18:21] around, like, like, do you have people over here? No, I just pressed and I did this to get her.
[00:18:26] And I'm looking at everything. And we kind of, I'm like, we got away with this. It's about two hours
[00:18:31] later, knock on the door. My mom goes in the answers the door. And there's a lady standing there
[00:18:36] with all 12 bags of trash at the front door. And she's like, these were thrown into the field behind
[00:18:43] my house. She went through the trash, found like, because we had taken out the trash with like mail in it,
[00:18:48] found our dress. And, uh, and I just remember looking at Travis and he just shook his head like
[00:18:54] your such an idiot. I've, uh, when I go away and you know, I got teenage kids now and even
[00:19:01] well, coverman calls now, but I used to go away for whatever with my wife or whatever and leave the
[00:19:06] kids at home. And I'm like, are you guys going to have a rager? Or what? I kind of encouraged them.
[00:19:11] And they were like, no, they're like that. None of our friends will come to our house. They like,
[00:19:16] don't want to come here because of you. Yeah, totally. And I'm like, oh, well, okay, I guess that's
[00:19:21] a positive thing. So that's awesome. You guys had a, had, it's awesome that you didn't have that
[00:19:26] rivalry, which can, which can happen in, in, in a, in a sibling relationships. My kids don't
[00:19:33] really have it either. Now that I think about it, which is cool. What about, like, competition,
[00:19:37] like, even on a more friendly level? Like, did, did you ever feel like you're competing with
[00:19:42] him? Ping pong death matches or anything like that? I mean, listen, you know,
[00:19:46] this in life, I mean, yeah, I mean, growing up, I mean, as when we were young, like, I used to
[00:19:54] tease him endlessly. I mean, my aunt tells the story of her wedding, you know, and, and she said,
[00:20:01] all you did was make Travis cry by teasing him the entire day. We were like 10 and 11 years old. So
[00:20:06] we fought like siblings. But I think by the time we hit high school,
[00:20:12] there really wasn't competition. Like, hey, would I, would we get out back and play basketball?
[00:20:17] And, you know, yeah, that's, that sort of stuff, like, friendly, but like, there was nothing,
[00:20:23] competitive in terms of how our relationship worked.
[00:20:27] Hmm, interesting. Awesome. All right, you, you dive into this a little bit more. I'm going to go to the
[00:20:31] book here on a wooden, wooden beam in our basement by the bench press on which you had
[00:20:35] punished himself nightly. Travis wrote his goals in permanent black marker.
[00:20:41] Here they are all American wrestler, first team all Catholic and lacrosse,
[00:20:46] maintained 3.9 GPA. My aspirations were far more modest,
[00:20:53] rarely recorded and let's be honest, not terribly admirable. While Travis's key performance
[00:20:58] indicators consisted of grade point averages and athletic milestones,
[00:21:02] mind were quantified by number of parties attended or classes skipped without getting caught.
[00:21:09] Travis had a work ethic uncommon amongst most 16 year olds and as his older sister,
[00:21:14] I found it fascinating and a little unnerving. I marveled at Travis's ability to set a goal one year
[00:21:21] out even two years out and then worked tirelessly to meet it. Occasionally, I questioned what
[00:21:26] genetic material was absent from my DNA that caused this quality to skip me, but I never lost
[00:21:32] sleep about it. Though I admired his self-discipline and focus, I'm pretty sure Travis
[00:21:37] envied my vibrant social life and lighthearted attitude towards responsibility.
[00:21:42] So you guys kind of balanced each other out? Totally. Did you, when you were looking at him
[00:21:47] with his goals and everything like that and you're saying, well, that skipped me. Did you ever
[00:21:51] say, well, it didn't skip me. I can make a goal and I can go for it. Did you ever, did you did
[00:21:56] that ever cross your mind or is that just not part of your brain? Yeah, I mean, I have to be honest,
[00:22:01] I just didn't really care. You know, I was, I was happy to take the back seat to his start-up.
[00:22:09] You played the crossing college. I mean, that's no joke. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I broke some school records
[00:22:16] at my playing college lacrosse and you know what? And so I don't want to take away anything from that,
[00:22:22] but it was like, I went to a D3 school, I played lacrosse. I was the leading score on the team
[00:22:30] and it was a lot of fun and you know, and Travis would come to my games. I remember Travis came to
[00:22:35] one of my games and him and my uncle Chris were like heckling the goalie because the goalie had like
[00:22:42] had a cheap shot at me. I played a tack. I was right up front and so they're like standing behind
[00:22:46] heckling the goalie and after the game, you know, we win the game and we're standing there and the coach
[00:22:53] says the coach is like, doesn't directly say anything to me, but she goes, I'm just going to say this
[00:23:00] right now. If I see anybody's family messing with, you know, messing with another team again,
[00:23:07] that's so called player will not be playing on my team anymore. And so I like leaving on my
[00:23:12] thanks a lot guys. You know, you come to one game and you know, I'm about to kick off the team
[00:23:17] for what you're doing. What the hell are they doing? I mean, you've got to make a pretty
[00:23:22] significant impact on the game. Yeah, I mean, there was it was a it was a cheap shot my her
[00:23:28] and what, you know, I shot, she came out and whacked me so hard and an intentional way, you know,
[00:23:35] and that was my brother. Like he was if someone messed with me, like go mess with me. Yeah,
[00:23:42] I mean, if someone messes with you, he's going to hackle them. Yeah, but majorly, yeah, if you're
[00:23:46] growing, you're going to get happy with if you're a guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So you tell a good story and here,
[00:23:51] it's like a Saturday night and there's a party going on and I you have this ideal situation,
[00:23:59] because you got your brother who's kind of a straight and narrow kind of guy. So that means you have
[00:24:03] a designated driver. You invite him to go to this party. The party, you know, it goes gets kind of
[00:24:11] wild and then the cops show up. And so here we go to the book teenagers scattered Travis Krista,
[00:24:17] who's one of the people you're with and I quickly found one another and joined the mad rush
[00:24:21] toward the back of the house. We barreled through the kitchen door, hopped the fence that's
[00:24:24] surrounded the property and sprinted for the woods behind the house. Those woods were our ticket to
[00:24:29] freedom. They also represented a blessed escape from the terrifying wrath of my parents,
[00:24:34] who almost certainly would have disowned me for what would have been my third underage drinking
[00:24:40] citation in my high school career. So you had some milestones you were making. So you're running
[00:24:47] in through the woods. There's a footbridge and somehow you fall off the footbridge, which actually
[00:24:52] the word you're using here, you say I got thrown off the footbridge. Was that even me? Well,
[00:24:56] because there's a hundred kids running over a bridge that's this wide. I'll try and hit that
[00:25:01] same cornfield. So yes, someone pushed off because you're getting to the cornfield and then
[00:25:08] you're good. Yeah. Because they cannot find you in a cornfield. They're not run. The
[00:25:12] concert not chasing us into a cornfield. Cornfields are crazy. Yeah. Like you can get lost in cornfields.
[00:25:18] I have many times. Yeah. All right. So you end up you end up getting thrown from this footbridge
[00:25:24] and you go back to the book. I became aware of a pain coursing through my leg. I looked
[00:25:29] down and saw that my shin was covered in blood. My khaki pens were red. So now,
[00:25:34] Travis is like, hey, we got to get you some help and you guys discussed that a little bit. Finally,
[00:25:39] you are going to walk back to the car and finally the car was with insight. But just as we
[00:25:45] rounded a giant pine tree, a blinding light shown in our eyes busted. Hey kids, get over here.
[00:25:53] A square jawed officer examined us with his flashlight. He wanted names, ages, and a full
[00:25:58] account of our whereabouts that evening. Somewhere in the interrogation session, a light bulb
[00:26:03] seemed to go off in his head. His eyes softened and his lips turned up into a smile. Hey, wait.
[00:26:10] You're Travis, man. Yes, sir. Hello, the wrestling season you've had, kid. Thank you, sir. And so then
[00:26:17] he, you know, Travis kind of plays this thing up to get you guys to get you guys out of
[00:26:24] out of trouble. Yeah. So this is the kind of, this is the kind of thing that you two had going on.
[00:26:28] Yeah, it was, uh, did, uh, did you, since you guys are close in age, did your friends all hang
[00:26:37] out together? Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, my friends were his friends. Did you go out with any of your
[00:26:42] friends? Um, he hung out with some of my friends. Did you go out with any of his friends?
[00:26:47] Little bit. Yeah, no serious relationship. My kids are like, my oldest three kids are
[00:26:53] about 18 to 24 months apart. Yeah. And it's 18 for the first two. And so there's always,
[00:26:59] but the oldest two are girls. And then there's the boy. Yeah. But the weird thing is the boy's like
[00:27:04] six three. And he's always been taller than them since. So I don't know. It's, but there's,
[00:27:09] there's like a little in, there's like a little line with my kids. The friends all hang around,
[00:27:14] but there's never been like a relationship anywhere. Yeah, no. I mean, I'll tell you like in,
[00:27:20] and I think it was my, was my senior year, my senior year. You know, we had, I had one friend who
[00:27:28] didn't get asked to prom. And you know, it was a sad thing, you know, and she's like,
[00:27:33] heartbroken about it. And I'm like Travis, you're, you're taking her to prom. And he's like,
[00:27:38] I know this girl, I'm like, you're taking her prom. He's like, fine. You know, like he always
[00:27:42] just kind of like stepped in. I mean, certainly, a lot of my friends were, um, and that
[00:27:49] I'm never by Travis. I'll put that way. Travis, was this stud? Yeah. All right. So you guys have this awesome
[00:27:56] relationship. And I'm going to go back now to the day you find out. So here we go. I couldn't believe it.
[00:28:08] I didn't want to believe it. I collapsed in a heap right there on the driveway. I remember thinking
[00:28:14] that the asphalt felt a naturally warm for a mid April afternoon that had been mild. It's not fair.
[00:28:20] It's not fair. I screamed over and over into the sky. I wanted to make sure that everyone,
[00:28:25] even got himself knew that he had made a terrible mistake. As I screamed, my parents' neighbors
[00:28:32] spilled out of their houses to find out what was happening. My dad didn't rush to my side to comfort
[00:28:37] me. He let me get those tortured screams out of my system before I went about the hard work
[00:28:44] I'm trying to understand what had happened and pick up the pieces. As it always been the case with
[00:28:49] my dad, he knew exactly what I needed before I did. I have no idea how long I lay on the ground
[00:28:54] screaming. I just know that it was long enough to get the rage out of my system. That's some
[00:29:01] point. One of the neighbors helped me up and walked me down the driveway toward my house. As I walked,
[00:29:07] I turned around and saw an unfamiliar car parked out in front of the house. In my shock,
[00:29:13] I hadn't even noticed it earlier. Inside, sat a young man about my age and full military dress
[00:29:18] blues. His forehead was resting on the top of the steering wheel, pressed between two folded arms
[00:29:25] that cradled his head. His eyes were closed and he looked ejected or perhaps unconscious.
[00:29:33] I later learned this parmarine 26 years old had been charged with the unfortunate task of
[00:29:39] sharing the news with the people closest to Travis that he had been killed in Iraq. Captain
[00:29:44] Eric Kael, as I later learned his name was, had been assigned to carry out the jobs since he was
[00:29:50] local and it graduated from the Naval Academy the year before my brother. Lieutenant Colonel
[00:29:54] Gardner had also been called since the military knew that he was a family friend close by.
[00:30:00] Together while I had been out scouting sites for my boutique, they had approached my parents'
[00:30:06] door and knocked. My mother opened the door, took one look at quirky in the young marine uniform
[00:30:13] and slammed the door in their faces. She simply couldn't face what was on the other side.
[00:30:26] Like I said, that's what every military family knows there's only one reason that that
[00:30:32] person's coming in your house and their dress uniforms. And since your dad was in the Marine
[00:30:38] Corps for whatever 20 something years and she obviously was new. This is good as well as anyone.
[00:30:50] So she wasn't sure she could face what was on the other side. I wasn't sure I could either.
[00:30:57] When I reached the front door with the help of my neighbor, I stopped. I had walked through the
[00:31:01] that door thousands of times before but this time I wanted to turn the other direction and run away.
[00:31:06] I knew deep down in my soul that once I passed through that door this time,
[00:31:12] the life that I had known was over and there was no going back. That permanence, I was
[00:31:38] at the seal teams. I was in the training command and a guy got wounded really bad overseas
[00:31:48] and somebody called me and said, hey, this guy, he got wounded really bad. And I think
[00:31:55] the guys that called the guy, there's two guys on the other end and I think
[00:32:00] they were looking for like a little bit of sympathy. One of the guys got wounded really bad
[00:32:18] and I remember saying, because I had heard the initial report that a guy was going to really
[00:32:22] about really bad and then these guys this call came probably 36 hours later and I said,
[00:32:32] hey, is he stable? And they said, yeah, he's stable and I said, well then we're good.
[00:32:44] And for them, I mean, for them they were still thinking like, hey, this guy's going to lose limbs,
[00:32:51] like this guy's going to be in really bad shape. But for me, like because you know, I only come
[00:32:59] back from Iraq a little while before and lost guys there. Yeah. And so for me, the difference between
[00:33:06] hey, this guy's as messed up as this guy's going to be is horrible. The situation is and the wounds
[00:33:12] that he suffered are horrible, but he's going to be here and this permanence of what you, you know,
[00:33:22] that's what, that's what I was thinking about when I was reading about you saying, when you walk through
[00:33:26] that door, the line between life and death is like, it's like you can't even, you can't even
[00:33:31] identify it so, so slender and it falls on one side or the other. Yeah, you know, I've, I, you know,
[00:33:42] you go through that initial phase of shock, but I remember thinking like, why couldn't he just
[00:33:48] been like, why couldn't we be flying a Germany right now, you know? And I've even had dreams about
[00:33:53] like Travis being there, but he's like super wounded, you know, he's missing both his legs,
[00:34:00] but I'm like, who cares? It's Travis, you know, I, I, of course you take him in any form
[00:34:07] if they're alive, you know, and it's just that idea and I think for me, you know, when my mom
[00:34:14] opened the door, it's, I don't, I don't write about it in the book, but like it was a super volatile
[00:34:21] time when he was there. And my mom had gotten an email a week before from the Major's wife on the
[00:34:30] mid team and she had, you know, said, I can't speak to it now because she was kind of the liaison
[00:34:36] to all the families. I can't speak to it now, but I just want you to know that something happened last
[00:34:42] week that was very significant and your, you know, your husband's and sons what they did is,
[00:34:51] you know, was incredible. And, you know, all of all of mother thinks is, well, you know, bad
[00:34:59] stuff is going down. And so she leading up to that knock, she was on edge. She was on edge that
[00:35:08] entire deployment, but even more so after that email came and, you know, I think that is,
[00:35:17] she tried to every morning when she woke up, she sent a mini mail, he didn't email back, but she
[00:35:21] sent a mini mail every day, she was sending another care package that probably wasn't getting to
[00:35:28] him who's getting to, you know, Faluja, but where he was, he wasn't having care packages
[00:35:33] dropped into store, but it was like those were the things she had to do to like process while
[00:35:38] he was there. Like this is what's going to get me through. And that Sunday, I think there,
[00:35:43] there's something about the fact that, you know, she woke up that morning and just said,
[00:35:47] I want to have people over. Like it was, there was no plan around it. And she was a planner.
[00:35:53] So, but that morning, she woke up and said, Tom, let's have people over. So, you imagine all these
[00:36:00] different scenarios, all these different knocks that people get. And, you know, you see mine,
[00:36:05] you're going to see Heather's and Amy's in the book as well. But, imagine a scenario where
[00:36:13] the mother and father are opening the door and there's 30 people in the house, you know,
[00:36:18] there to have a family barbecue. And I remember when I walked in that door, I could see smoke coming
[00:36:27] off the grill because my dad had walked to enter the door and left all the meat on the grill.
[00:36:33] And it's out there like on fire. And it was like, it was pure pandemonium. Like, my people,
[00:36:42] nobody knows what to do. And people are just literally running around a house like screaming
[00:36:48] all the women are just screaming. Like, there is no sanity in this room. And I think that's why
[00:36:52] my dad's just like, I'm going to stand out in this driveway, you know, with Colonel Gardner,
[00:36:57] because he's just like, and then the rest is like, all these women and people are coming up like,
[00:37:01] what do you need? I'm like, what do I like? What kind of question is that? I don't know. I don't even
[00:37:06] know what, what is upright now, you know? But that chaotic scene is something that plays out a lot
[00:37:18] in my mind over and over, you know? Well, time of day, was it? It was like one o'clock in the afternoon,
[00:37:24] you know, it was like, come up for a Sunday barbecue and, you know, ants and uncles are there.
[00:37:31] My dad's siblings, you know, some of my dad's siblings, all my mom's siblings, my grandmother.
[00:37:37] It was my cousins, you know? It was just that. And my mom was always like, kind of the person,
[00:37:43] like, coming to my home, you know, let's do something. But just to have those people there,
[00:37:49] when that moment took place, I remember turning, as I turned to walk in the door, I turned and it
[00:37:57] was my little cousins. And it's my dad's sister, my aunt Susan, she was standing there with my
[00:38:06] gods on and her two other kids and they were standing on like the step going to the back of the
[00:38:12] house and she's just trying to console these little kids who grew up with Travis. I mean,
[00:38:17] literally grew up with him and she's just trying, and I'm just like, you can't even,
[00:38:25] you can't even play that scene out in a movie, you know? I mean, you can't even capture what what it was.
[00:38:37] You, um, you, you talk about that scene and then, and then you say this in all the chaos and
[00:38:45] furious movement, I locked eyes with my grandmother who's seated alone in a wheelchair in the dining room,
[00:38:50] tears streaming down her cheeks. She was receiving neither comfort nor attention from anyone.
[00:38:55] My heart broke in that instant. I'll never forget that image. The rest of the day is a blur.
[00:39:02] I floated between feelings of painful shock and dark emptiness. When I woke the next morning,
[00:39:11] I remembered what it felt like coming out of anesthesia from an operation I'd had in college.
[00:39:17] First one, I lit open cautiously, then the next, but my body remained frozen. My mind was already
[00:39:22] turning going over the details of the previous day and coming to terms with the unalterable fact
[00:39:28] that my best friend and brother was dead. This marked the first of what turned out to be many
[00:39:35] anxiety-ridden mornings that would follow. Every day I would slowly and rarely transition from
[00:39:40] sleep to consciousness, hoping that my overwhelming anxiety wouldn't make another appearance, but it
[00:39:47] always did. Did you ever have the um, did you ever wake up in the morning and forget for like
[00:39:59] three seconds? What had happened? No, um, I didn't. It was actually more like a soon,
[00:40:10] as soon as I opened my eyes, tears, I would be crying. Like if I was awake, I was either like
[00:40:20] non-functional or I was crying. And I would say for a good month, I woke up and I'm like,
[00:40:28] oh my gosh, I think so every day for the rest of my life, I'm going to wake up crying. You're
[00:40:34] like, you go through these things. Like, okay, this is the new normal I will wake up crying every
[00:40:38] day. And I honestly could not wait every night to fall asleep because the only time I wasn't
[00:40:45] in pain was when I was sleeping. So it was just like how quickly he came my body and in those moments,
[00:40:54] it's not easy to sleep, right? So sleep didn't come very easily. So I was so thankful when my body
[00:41:00] would let me sleep. And you know, that was the only time I was necessarily forgetting.
[00:41:08] I've experienced like when something really bad happens, like when I've lost friends and
[00:41:13] I wake up in the morning and for like three, literally three seconds, you know, the alarm clock
[00:41:19] goes off and I, you know, shut off the alarm clock and I, and everything's like totally normal
[00:41:26] for like for three seconds. And then I take two steps out of my bed and boom, I get hit.
[00:41:39] Now you all go to meet Travis as he is flown home and we're going to the book, the
[00:41:49] greeting at Dover was gut wrenching. My parents and I were plagued by questions in those early days
[00:41:55] that were difficult to ignore who his Travis with when he died, what happened? Was it instant?
[00:42:00] Slowly the answers started to unfold. We learned that Travis wasn't actually scheduled to be
[00:42:05] out on the mission the day that he was killed. Instead of fellow marine was slated for the patrol,
[00:42:10] but he wasn't feeling up to a Travis who had been assigned to do some humanitarian work at a
[00:42:15] local Iraqi school offered to take his place. During the course of the patrol, Travis and his
[00:42:19] team of Marines were ambushed, a firefighter erupted and they were quickly pinned down,
[00:42:25] taking fire from three sides, Travis seeing his Navy corpsman shot and line wounded in the middle
[00:42:30] of the road immediately ran out of the line of fire to carry his colleague to safety.
[00:42:34] As the ambush intensified, Travis again entered the line of fire to pull another wounded
[00:42:39] marine back to safety in a covered position. Then Travis moved out to take on the ambush
[00:42:44] that was now overwhelming his patrol undontered by the onslaught he fired his M203 grenade launcher,
[00:42:50] taking out an enemy position and then expended a firestorm of rounds at the other positions
[00:42:55] before running out of ammunition. His efforts pushed the enemy back and changed the entire momentum
[00:43:01] of the ambush, ultimately saving the lives of his entire patrol. It was then that Travis was shot by a sniper
[00:43:11] and immediately the enemy began to pull back. His teammates quickly grabbed them and provided
[00:43:16] what emergency medical care they could. He was rushed back to Camp Felusia where he was pronounced
[00:43:23] dead by the medical staff that had worked feverishly to try and save him.
[00:43:31] There's no part of that story that doesn't sound just like my brother.
[00:43:35] Offering to take the worst assignment to help a friend and need, that was Travis.
[00:43:43] Thinking about the safety of others before ever considering his own, that was Travis too.
[00:43:48] Seeing the dismal odds that didn't bode well for him and choosing to grid his teeth and answer
[00:43:53] a fire with more fire anyway, also Travis. My brother was a protector and a warrior in every sense
[00:44:02] of those terms. I certainly felt it as a sister and I'm proud to know that his fellow marines
[00:44:09] got to experience it too. When I learned that he'd been killed by a bullet, I was never said
[00:44:16] wouldn't be able to stomach the sight of him in an open casket. My mind imagined the worst.
[00:44:24] I was shocked then when the lid of the casket was raised at the viewing to see my brother looking
[00:44:28] as though he were sleeping peacefully. Just as I'd remembered him, I approached the coffin
[00:44:37] and rubbed his head as I'd done a hundred times before. From the time he was a child,
[00:44:44] Travis had always supported a buzz cut and as I felt the surface of his freshly cut hair with
[00:44:50] my fingertips, I thought, yep, that's Travis's head.
[00:45:14] That was Travis.
[00:45:18] It's like his whole life was leading to this moment where he needed to do something beyond
[00:45:34] what is expected of a human being to do. When you look back
[00:45:41] at his childhood, I think he was doing things that were beyond what a ten-year-old child
[00:45:52] was supposed to do or what a 15-year-old kid was supposed to do. It was like,
[00:45:57] and they were small moments in the whole scheme of things, but they ultimately
[00:46:03] prepared him for that last day.
[00:46:10] I was after Mikey Montstorre, got killed and we came home and I was talking to Mikey's sister.
[00:46:19] She was just, she just said, yeah, she said when I found out what happened, I wasn't even remotely
[00:46:24] surprised at all. She's like, oh, he jumped on a grenade and saved three of his friends. She's like,
[00:46:30] that's exactly, she's like, I don't want to say that I knew that this would happen, but she said,
[00:46:38] this is no surprise at all. Yeah.
[00:46:47] Going back to the book, I stood by a side all day greeting friends and family who had taken
[00:46:51] the time to pay the respects. One of Travis's best friends and roommate at the Naval Academy
[00:46:56] Brendan Looney was unable to make the funeral. He was in San Diego attending the basic underwater
[00:47:02] demolition seal school, the training program required for Navy seals, leaving to attend the
[00:47:08] services on the East Coast would have surely meant relinquishing his chance to become a seal officer.
[00:47:13] But Brendan's girlfriend at the time Amy, who had also been close to Travis, did come to say
[00:47:19] her final goodbye. I remember Amy walking up to the casket, investing into tears. I knew the loss
[00:47:29] cut her deeply as well. It was a physically and mentally exhausting day and as much as I could
[00:47:36] hardly bear the idea of standing by that casket one minute longer after hours of doing so. I also
[00:47:41] didn't want to imagine that time coming to an end. I knew that after the last person knelt down to
[00:47:49] say a prayer in front of Travis, the funeral director was going to close that casket forever
[00:47:54] and that would be it. I'd never seen my brother's face again. I rubbed his head one last time
[00:48:05] and felt my heart sinking as my father gently pulled me away.
[00:48:23] After the funeral, the burial and the celebration of his life that followed I remember sitting
[00:48:29] on the back stairs outside my parents home to the same place where I'd saw it sawless and the
[00:48:33] chaos after first hearing of his death, the winter had melted away. In a beautiful spring day
[00:48:40] had sprung up in its place in the weeks and months that followed I often found myself outside
[00:48:44] crouched on that stair and that in those stairs in that same position. Time was passing. Life was
[00:48:53] moving on. I was watching it happen but I was not participating in it. I felt bitterness towards
[00:49:01] the people who could return to their normal lives, jobs and families while I sat on the same stair
[00:49:07] in the same red sweatshirt terrified of what might come next.
[00:49:20] I, you know when you were talking about like saying, oh this is just the way it's going to be
[00:49:27] from now on. I'm just going to be crying all the time and I had somebody asked me about you know
[00:49:34] when is this end? How do you get through this? The way I tried to explain it is by saying
[00:49:45] when you first experience something devastating like this you're going to get hit with these waves
[00:49:49] and the waves are going to be really powerful, really strong and they're going to come really
[00:49:57] often. And what's scary about them is by the time you're 28 years old or 20 years old or whatever
[00:50:06] however old you are you've learned to control your emotions and all of a sudden you're in a situation
[00:50:11] where you don't have control anymore. And it seems like like you said that's just the way it's going
[00:50:17] to be from now on. And then what I've noticed is over time those waves they start to lose some strength.
[00:50:27] They're just not as strong as they were and over time those waves they separate and they get
[00:50:33] further and further apart. And what happens is this is what I thought of when I read this
[00:50:38] this part that you wrote is you know the closer you are to the person the stronger those waves are
[00:50:46] and the longer it takes for that calm to approach. So when you see other people that are already kind
[00:50:53] of have found some calm again and they're moving on it makes you it can make you mad.
[00:51:00] Totally. I you know they have that the 12 stages of grief I couldn't name all 12 stages and
[00:51:08] and followed but like I know anger's up there and I felt anger you know and it was just like
[00:51:15] and it was anger at everyone else like screw you guys you know we're we're we're just we're here
[00:51:24] we're living it and you're living their lives on the flipside you know having some perspective like
[00:51:32] thank you for being there for us thank you for doing what you did thank you for
[00:51:37] leaving your job for a week to support my family you know you don't have that mindset when
[00:51:43] you're in it you're like oh you're going back to work you're you're flying back like what do you
[00:51:47] mean like no you're all supposed to be here and you know we're all going to live together in this house
[00:51:54] and and support each other yeah you you think yourself life is not going to go on the way was ever
[00:52:00] yeah and and that was the that was the scariest part so was this this idea of like it was that
[00:52:06] initial walk through the door and then then everything takes over you know you go into this auto pilot
[00:52:13] of like we've got to plan for everything so it's the anticipation of being it dover but that
[00:52:20] anticipation comes with a level of excitement isn't the right word but like I can't wait till
[00:52:31] that call from comes on the plate off the plane there he is he's now with us you know and
[00:52:36] it's the small steps and it's like okay next is the viewing I can't wait to be able to see my
[00:52:42] brother and then it's like we're closing that casket and it's like another thing you know you walk
[00:52:48] through that door the casket's closing the funeral mass happens everyone comes back you've got
[00:52:54] hundreds and hundreds of people at a reception and then it's like that last bag of trash is taken
[00:53:01] out by the neighbor and they say bye and you're like oh crap now we actually really have to think
[00:53:08] about what this means you know because you're just kind of going through this process by the way I failed
[00:53:21] to mention this so far I'm not reading the whole book and so if there's some things that are jumping
[00:53:26] around or whatever that's why because I'm not here to do an audio version of this book but that's
[00:53:33] why I'm reading chunks of it but you've got all kinds of detail in there that I'm not going over
[00:53:39] and connecting these chunks that I'm reading so that's why people should just buy the books I haven't
[00:53:44] said that yet but if there's anything that seems to be that's why it is jump because I'm jumping
[00:53:50] around from section to section you continue on here it was hard to believe that only weeks before
[00:53:58] I'd been so happy blissfully ignorant of how my life would be cruelly abruptly and permanently
[00:54:04] changed I remember sitting in my kitchen two weeks before Travis died I was watching my baby girl
[00:54:10] all nine and a half months old pull herself up to stand on uncertain wobbly legs she stood with
[00:54:15] her chubby hands on the screen door she stood next to our dog pup and giggled excitedly as she
[00:54:23] peered outside and watched a bunny rabbit hop around the backyard life is so completely perfect
[00:54:29] I remember thinking at that moment I was a happy new mom had a fantastic relationship with my husband
[00:54:35] business was good and Travis would be back in time for the grand opening of my second store I felt
[00:54:40] holy in control and at peace to this day that peaceful feeling sometimes comes back to me for a moment
[00:54:47] when life feels effortless my mind is at ease and all seems right in the world but now it dissolves
[00:54:54] in an instant in fact as soon as I experienced that kind of serenity I become terrified what terrible
[00:55:00] tragedy is going to shatter this picture of perfect peace I asked myself I still wonder if the
[00:55:05] sense of calm I experienced that day had been a harboredger of the doom to come I worry that I was
[00:55:12] foolish for not having recognized it for what it was all the signs of catastrophe will right in front
[00:55:17] of me how could I have been so blind this train of thought is of course completely paranoid and insane
[00:55:27] so do you feel that now to this day yeah you know I I do I don't have many times where life feels effortless
[00:55:38] anymore but you know I I remember that feeling I had that day in my house I remember that feeling so vividly
[00:55:50] just it was this wave that came over me where I was like oh my gosh like this is what a great life
[00:55:58] I have you know I'm like looking at my new daughter and I'm just and and I think I just got
[00:56:03] off the phone with Travis like a day or two prior and and our conversations had nothing to do with
[00:56:09] what he was doing when I rack he's like talking to me about you know what what kind of men's
[00:56:14] brands did you get for the story you know it is a cool stuff and and so it was just like the
[00:56:21] super peaceful feeling and I lived up into that point not really fearful of anything
[00:56:29] and you know I certainly today I'm certainly afraid of I'm afraid when I get a random call
[00:56:42] I'm afraid when my husband calls me twice in a row you know those things can set me into a
[00:56:49] different place they can they can certainly you know I my favorite show was my favorite show was
[00:56:57] big love that was an HBO series on like polygamy and it was really popular when
[00:57:05] scripted series when around that time and I love the show was a guy who was the guy who was in it
[00:57:13] he's he since passed away but anyway great show it was Bill Paxon yeah and yeah there
[00:57:20] you know it was a great show and I remember watching that show and and these are the things
[00:57:28] that you don't realize are going to happen so I'm watching the show and it's like the series finale
[00:57:32] and it was those little things where I was like this is post Travis's death and I'm like well
[00:57:38] you know big love zone that's something I can enjoy I'm going to watch this season finale
[00:57:44] and I'm watching the finale and on the finale like the head polygamous get shot and he
[00:57:51] gets shot on the street and watching him get shot it sent me into a full blown panic attack
[00:57:58] it was such a visceral reaction that I wasn't expecting that it it's stunned me and I was like oh my god
[00:58:05] I I can't see that I mean my my five-year-old walks around he's got a little like pistol that was
[00:58:12] that was that was Dave's my husband's and he brought it my mother-in-law found it and she brought it
[00:58:18] back about a month ago and it's the cutest little thing with the whole stir and I can't be around
[00:58:23] Travis holding it my little Travis holding it it unlike David there's something about like guns now
[00:58:29] you know there's seeing them pointed being shot like it sends me in a in a bad place you know and
[00:58:36] it's it's those sort of things that you don't you don't realize until a little bit after the fact
[00:58:43] that okay these are the residual effects and some of them go away and some of them don't you know
[00:58:49] um and some of them just starve a part of who you are now and I'm I'm definitely a
[00:58:59] a jumpier person you know like I hear something like what happened you know we're before I was
[00:59:04] not like that I was kind of like um you heard something you know you talk a little bit about that
[00:59:13] more here you say the fear and paranoia that follow in the wake of grief can create a tremendous
[00:59:18] roadblock it stunts our personal growth and darkens our overall sense of well-being some people respond
[00:59:23] to unexpected and trying situations with passive acquiescence and others with fire and fury I responded
[00:59:30] by heightening my vigilance after Travis's death I found myself compelled to be wary I was
[00:59:37] always on the lookout for the next great tragedy to befall me this hurled me down some very dark
[00:59:43] and troublesome paths from panic attacks to self-destructive behaviors but also led me to some
[00:59:49] amazing gifts like recovering my sense of humor and living with intention what self-destructive
[00:59:54] behaviors did you pick up I mean I think you know self-destructive in a way that you know I stopped
[01:00:04] kind of taking care of myself you know you I I go into the next place where I'm talking about
[01:00:12] you know I decide to run a marathon but I'm running a marathon smoking a pack of cigarettes a day
[01:00:18] and you know I'm drinking a lot and I'm just kind of like I'm gonna do this but on the same token
[01:00:26] you know this is kind of who I am now you know and you know with the with that that
[01:00:35] hypersense of paranoia you know I really went into some these ideas of and I know what
[01:00:46] I know the reasoning behind it if I can look back and like psychoanalyze myself when Travis was in
[01:00:51] Iraq I was not worried about him and when he was there the first time when he was there the second time
[01:00:58] even though I knew the second deployment was different I was aware of that because my husband told me
[01:01:04] he's like hey this is gonna be different you know I've had conversations with your brother but I had
[01:01:09] no fear of my brother being an Iraq it was this notion of more than anything you think about
[01:01:18] like these crazy stories right you know I spur like you know I sickle falling off a garage and like
[01:01:27] impaling a woman on her head right and it's like these totally crazy stories and you're like that's
[01:01:32] so crazy well I mean it's never gonna happen to you right it's like the plane crash theory like
[01:01:37] we all fly on planes but you know you tell your kids planes are planes don't crash you know you're
[01:01:42] not gonna be in a plane the crashes so you don't think about that happening to you and that
[01:01:48] maybe it was a defense mechanism but that's how I got through Travis being an Iraq I wasn't you know
[01:01:56] I didn't show any fear I didn't show any I and I didn't even have any fear it wasn't that I didn't
[01:02:01] show it I really didn't have it I let those emotions all go so then when it did happen it was
[01:02:07] like I guess when you do this idea of like preparing right where your it's almost like I knew this
[01:02:12] was coming like you hear people like I knew it I knew it right like I had no idea and so to have
[01:02:20] something shock your system that much I think it kind of rewires you where you're kind of waiting
[01:02:29] for that next shock to the system and you know you lead on throughout the book and and I've had
[01:02:35] other things that have that have happened since where I know like there no one is void of having
[01:02:43] something happen you know whether it's random in nature I've had a lot of random crappy things
[01:02:49] happened to me you know over the last several years I guess it's similar again this is something
[01:02:55] I just talked about with Jim Sersley who was on the last podcast was in Vietnam and the range of
[01:03:02] level of fear that guys have going into combat there's some people that are scared they're like
[01:03:08] they think they're gonna die right and there's some people that are kind of like that will actually
[01:03:13] not happen to me like I'm I'm I'm not gonna die and that was kind of his attitude was your your
[01:03:18] your thinking oh that's yeah like he volunteered to go Vietnam he wasn't like I'm volunteer
[01:03:23] tearing to go Vietnam and I might die he was like I'm volunteering to go to Vietnam and I'm gonna
[01:03:28] go do my job and and so I guess it's no surprise for some people on the family side to think well
[01:03:37] yeah that's not gonna happen to my loved one yeah I I've never really asked my parents this I don't
[01:03:43] think my parents ever thought anything would ever happen to me ever you know I thought that I think
[01:03:47] they just thought I was just overdoing and just whatever part of that is because I I kind of
[01:03:56] inculcated them to just not never knowing what I was doing ever and I was in for a long time and
[01:04:00] before the war started I had already been in for 13 years so they never knew that I was jumping
[01:04:05] out of airplanes or doing whatever I was doing and so when the war started I was just still going
[01:04:08] on deployments like I'd always gone I'd been I'd gone on deployments I'd gone on five deployments
[01:04:14] before I went to Iraq so that to them there it's like oh he's going on another deployment we'll
[01:04:17] hear from him in six months whatever my wife may be the same thing but
[01:04:23] until like when when I was in a modian my wife was at home and she was going to my
[01:04:29] guys funeral and when that happens every single family member that's there is thinking that
[01:04:35] the person that was killed could easily be you know my husband my brother my son now you talk a
[01:04:56] little bit about just this idea of grief the fact is grief will transform you and you've got
[01:05:06] will italicized which I think is important because you're saying listen like you because I think
[01:05:15] that's what I think that's the discovery that you made in that statement is your thinking hey
[01:05:20] I can get through this and everything is I'll be back to the way things were and you're saying
[01:05:25] no the fact is grief will transform you whether you are grieving the loss of an identity that you
[01:05:31] once had or the loss of a loved one at some point you will look in the mirror and see someone
[01:05:35] you simply don't recognize staring back at you it is inevitable maybe you should maybe you'll
[01:05:40] be proud of what you see and maybe you'll be ashamed at some point I bet you be both I bet you will
[01:05:45] be both the most important thing you can tell yourself is that you get the last word
[01:05:52] only you can determine how your experiences will change you and only you can be held accountable
[01:06:02] for that transformation so these are these are powerful things I wrote a book and I guess I talk about
[01:06:16] an attitude of extreme ownership of taking ownership of what's going on and you know there's always
[01:06:22] someone that wants to make different points or trying I'll be positive about it there's people
[01:06:29] that want to that people that want to test the theory right should take ownership and so one of the
[01:06:34] things that can happen is you know I got cancer that's not my fault how do I take ownership of that
[01:06:41] and it's like well you're right you can't take ownership of the fact that you got cancer
[01:06:44] you take ownership of how you respond to it and I just was out with working with a group of people
[01:06:51] and one of the guys had cancer and he was like hey I started listening to the podcast and
[01:07:00] he's like I listened to your podcast for seven hours a day every day the whole time I was in the hospital
[01:07:06] which makes me feel good about having 500 hours a little bit of that guy but that's what he did he took ownership
[01:07:14] of how he responded and that's what you're saying here look you're gonna something's gonna happen there's
[01:07:20] going to be changes but you do have what do you say but you get the last word right well I think you know
[01:07:28] one of the things that I have people still to this day say you know and and and I'm 12 years out
[01:07:35] from the loss of my brother seven years out from the loss of my mom and nine years out from the
[01:07:46] loss of Brendan right and and people will say you know when does when do you stop grieving
[01:07:55] and I'll even have people that have newly lost someone like explain this grief process like when is it
[01:08:01] gonna end and I'm very clear to tell them it doesn't it never ends I'm not going to say don't worry
[01:08:11] you know in the year it's over because everybody's journey is their own but the fact of the matter
[01:08:19] is that I entered into my if you want to call it grief journey in in a way that
[01:08:27] wasn't best for me right I wasn't it was a it was a process and now when you look at like
[01:08:35] talking about looking in the mirror and are you the person you want to be like when I look in the mirror
[01:08:40] today I'm the person that I wish Travis saw when he was alive like that's and so that for me is
[01:08:50] like that was my wake up I'm like okay so this is what the grief of my brother has done to me
[01:08:57] it's actually allowed me to become the person I should have been when he was here I was
[01:09:03] had a guy in the podcast his name was Tom Fife he was he was he was in World War II
[01:09:11] Korea and Vietnam and he was a purple heart recipient from all those wars and he was a battalion
[01:09:20] commander in Vietnam and I was talking to him about it and like I asked him you know basically you
[01:09:31] know I think I asked him how many casualties did you take or how many guys did you lose
[01:09:35] as a battalion commander and so this is for I don't know 50 or 60 years later and he got choked up
[01:09:43] and when that happened I thought to myself oh the emotions that I have they're never going to
[01:09:51] go away yeah and that's just the way it is and there's nothing wrong with that you know the waves get
[01:09:57] the waves get more separation between them over time but those waves can hit you
[01:10:05] yeah and I think you know what I find now is the further you get out the waves actually
[01:10:16] come it like really in opportune times so I'm not an incredibly emotional person to begin with
[01:10:26] that bout of the first month after Travis's death was probably the most crying I've ever done
[01:10:32] in my entire life but it was like it was in involuntary response like I could there was not that's
[01:10:38] just what it was and I if I was out in public I had on the biggest sunglasses you could
[01:10:45] possibly find because I did not I get uncomfortable when people see me emotional and so I
[01:10:51] I had tried to cover it and but now today you know the way those waves come it's it could be
[01:11:00] something so small that someone says or something I see and it doesn't matter where I am and it's
[01:11:06] just like oh my god and it kind of like takes your breath away takes you back to that place and you
[01:11:11] know I do a lot of public speaking and and I share Travis's story and and everyone's like I don't
[01:11:16] know how you do that without breaking down and I'm like listen that's not the time for me to break
[01:11:21] down like I'm there to do a job I'm there to share that story and make sure that you hear that
[01:11:25] story but if you think for one second that there aren't times I'm driving in the car and a song
[01:11:31] comes on or I'm out on a run or I'm sitting there looking at my kids and you know yeah that's
[01:11:36] still happens and and it and it doesn't come as as often but like you said you know 50 60 years out
[01:11:46] a service member talking about his friends like that's never going to go away and nor what I
[01:11:51] wanted to exactly exactly you continue on here like anyone who is received a jarring knock at the door
[01:11:59] literal or figurative and that's what's important and you again since I'm jumping around this book
[01:12:04] you know there's the metaphorical knock at the door that a service member's family can receive
[01:12:10] but the knock in the door can be anything sure anything that is unexpected in your life
[01:12:16] and everyone's going to get him in your life you're going to get a knock at the door that you
[01:12:20] want to do what your mom did which slammed the door and don't let it come in but it's coming yeah
[01:12:27] I've been to the darkest deepest and ugliest corners of my mind and I've learned a thing or two
[01:12:32] I don't hope to spare you the hurt or pain that comes with a knock I'll read that again I don't
[01:12:39] hope to spare you the hurt or pain that comes with the knock I don't think that I could I only hope
[01:12:46] to share the lessons I learned in the process the ones that have the power to transform you in all the
[01:12:50] right ways and remind you that you are not alone so yeah you you're not saying that you can
[01:13:01] make the pain go away it's going to hurt but there's there's steps you can take to move through that
[01:13:09] hurt that make more sense like you said looking back yeah this book is all built on perspective
[01:13:16] I'll tell you that you know I mean I I couldn't rip this book even five years ago you know
[01:13:23] I mean it it took 12 years to be able to say okay I'm ready to put pen to paper and listen I'm
[01:13:32] no expert but I've got a lot of experience and grief you know so I'm going to kind of share
[01:13:41] share my thoughts on that well it helps any time you can have any time you can
[01:13:48] see something unfold for someone else it makes you able to better handle it yourself just 100%
[01:13:54] that's why read war books all the time so I was able to try and figure out what was happening in
[01:13:58] combat even if I'd never seen it before I'd seen it before you say this in the early days after
[01:14:06] Travis was killed my decision making was more impulsive than rational impulsive decisions can be
[01:14:10] catastrophic and a few of mine have been but they've also been a great way for me to channel my
[01:14:15] nervous energy I think subconsciously I believed that as long as I was doing something anything
[01:14:20] then I would have to then I wouldn't have to acknowledge the intense pain that was overtaking my
[01:14:24] spirit and fighting to get out two weeks before Travis was killed he called home from my rack I wanted
[01:14:32] I want to run the Marine Corps marathon he told my dad that's great travel my dad responded and I
[01:14:37] want you to run it with me he finished my father was then in his early 50s and in solid shape
[01:14:41] but this was no small request after running the Marine Corps marathon a couple times when he was
[01:14:46] younger my dad had retired his marathon shoes forever he thought but he wasn't about to say no to his
[01:14:51] son fighting a war thousands of miles away let's do it he replied he mid-May when the funeral
[01:14:57] services were over and my parents extended family and friends were gathered in the living room
[01:15:02] my dad remembered his promise to Travis I'm still gonna run that marathon he proclaimed to the
[01:15:07] quiet gathering of distraught dumbstruck family members all run to Tom said Chris my dad's youngest brother
[01:15:15] I'm in echoed his wife my aunt Susan one by one people picked up their heads hardened to their
[01:15:20] gazes and joined him pretty soon every single person in that rumored committed to 26.2 miles
[01:15:26] in honor of Travis I was conveniently engrossed in the thread on the carpet when I felt a dozen
[01:15:32] pairs of eyes landing intently on my face I looked up now I'd been an athlete in college but that
[01:15:38] was almost five years earlier I'd given birth to mag the only ten months before and I had run
[01:15:42] so much as a five K and ages but those stairs were burning a hole right through my skin
[01:15:47] and thankfully my bullheadedness kicked in all right I'll do it I said I mean how hard could it be
[01:15:56] and then you you get done with your first training run and at the end of that first one mile run
[01:16:00] weezing forcefully and doubled over in pain I gave myself a little pad on the back good job Ryan
[01:16:05] you did today's run you're done now go home drink some water and chill but make damn sure you
[01:16:10] show up for tomorrow's run and that's how it went every day for four and a half months no
[01:16:14] matter how slow ugly or painful the run might have been I completed it there was no 26.2 mile run
[01:16:20] ahead of me there was no 26.2 mile ahead of me there was only today as the proverb says there's
[01:16:27] only one way to eat an elephant one bite at a time so you you talk about your training I thought
[01:16:33] it was cool you you've got Travis's iPod yeah how awesome was that it was awesome yeah came back
[01:16:38] in his foot locker and I'm like all right and he was so into music and we both shared like a
[01:16:46] deep love of music we went to concerts together all the time and so that was like exciting I didn't
[01:16:52] have an iPod at the time so it came back and it was what and I'm like gosh I hope I can get this
[01:16:57] thing working and you know plug it in and I was like all right there we go it's so crazy to think that
[01:17:02] these digital memories of people I mean and even I mean today today the digital memories of people
[01:17:09] are going to be crazy I mean it's just you're going to have all these images and videos and writing
[01:17:14] and posts and all this stuff for people yeah and like even just something like that what is it
[01:17:21] 12 years ago you know this iPod you know you fast you go rewind another 20 years behind that there's
[01:17:28] no iPod there's no there's you might have a mix tape I guess well I look it too it's interesting like
[01:17:33] and I remember talking to Travis on his first deployment I'm like let me set you up a my space profile
[01:17:38] it's kind of not doing that I'm like come on and you know so he had no imprint on social media
[01:17:45] at all but just a few years later you know when Brendan was killed I was Facebook friends with
[01:17:51] Brendan Brendan had a Facebook page you know and it was just that that small that small time
[01:17:56] but to have that iPod the coolest thing about it for me is that it wasn't just like it was
[01:18:02] Travis's iPod I'm like this is what he was taking in when he was in Iraq yeah for sure you know so
[01:18:08] like I'm listening to it and I just felt it it felt like such a deep connection with where he had been
[01:18:15] and you know it's so cool about that what you just said you even realize how right you are because
[01:18:20] like I had my iPod in Iraq my last deployment which was 2006 and those songs like what
[01:18:28] however many songs were on my iPad at the time like whatever 215 songs or whatever it was
[01:18:35] whenever I hear those songs right now I'm right back I mean I was 100% listening to the same
[01:18:40] songs over and over and over again yeah and I'm and I'm now brought back I hear any of those songs
[01:18:45] I'm brought back to training for that marathon that's where they bring me back to so you talk
[01:18:50] about the training and then here we go as the big data approached this is for the marathon my
[01:18:54] family and I headed to Washington through which the marathon course runs the night before the race
[01:18:59] we held a dinner for our team which by now had grown to nearly a hundred people
[01:19:04] on's uncles cousins friends neighbors lacrosse and wrestling butter buddies fellow marines and
[01:19:08] naval academy grads all of them were participating to honor my brother at dinner at a hotel we
[01:19:14] invited a few people including Brendan Looney who is to say a few words Brendan stood
[01:19:18] solemnly at the microphone he stared he started in about how Travis had been a brother to him
[01:19:24] and how he couldn't believe he was gone he was a great friend Brendan said I'll never forget him
[01:19:29] and I miss him he'd been choking back tears and finally his voice broke I have to get out of this
[01:19:35] room I thought I simply couldn't watch this tough navy seal breakdown as he remembered my brother
[01:19:40] it was too much I slipped out of the hotel and found myself gulping in the cold fall air outside my
[01:19:46] head was spinning and I couldn't help but feel that I was learning for the first time that Travis
[01:19:51] was gone forever I lit a cigarette it had been on and off habit of mine over the years one that
[01:19:57] Travis had always chastised me about maybe one day I'll write a book about what not to do in running
[01:20:02] a marathon chain smoking the night before the race would certainly make the list but it's not even
[01:20:08] the worst transgression I've committed fortunately for you this isn't a book about endurance training
[01:20:12] it's a book about grief which perhaps isn't so different the key to navigating grief I found
[01:20:17] is to have the courage to allow it to transform you same same theme like accepting the fact that
[01:20:26] it's going to make you different I've had to remind myself time and time again we're only human
[01:20:32] we can only take so much don't be so hard on yourself when you take one step forward and
[01:20:37] several steps back you made it this far you got up today and put one foot in front of the other
[01:20:42] you completed today's run go home relax and get ready for tomorrow's now you get into the
[01:20:48] marathon which is a great story I'm jumping ahead a little bit here but got to my own 19 and I still
[01:20:54] had 7.2 miles to complete at this point the wheels had all but come off my brain was no longer
[01:21:01] able to bully my body into behaving my knees my ankles my arch is everything was rebelling
[01:21:07] I slowed to a walk and began to debate with myself began to debate with myself that any distant
[01:21:13] run distance runner knows well 18 miles is great you should be proud of yourself there's no shame
[01:21:19] and stopping here you just lost your brother for God's sake didn't you really expect you to get this
[01:21:23] far call it now and leave with your dignity and your joints intact so you're having that
[01:21:30] the Quitter's conversation totally the Quitter's conversation you're having it but you're not a Quitter
[01:21:36] so I made one last ditch effort in an at I reached into my fanny pack and rifled through my unused
[01:21:41] power gels and energy beans until my fingers rested on the mass card with Travis's face on
[01:21:46] at November 19th 1980 to April 29th 2007 26 years old I gripped it tightly and offered a silent prayer
[01:21:56] this is it Travis the Marine Corps marathon course ends at the US Marine Corps warmer
[01:22:04] memorial a statue based on the iconic picture of six Marines struggling to raise a flagpole
[01:22:09] on the island of Uo G.ma during World War II it's an incredibly powerful site and when you come
[01:22:14] upon it you feel every bit is tired and as strong as those men huddled together appear to be
[01:22:20] as they raise the American flag I didn't care if my leg fell off in that very moment I was not
[01:22:27] walking up that hill I hustled into a full sprint bounded over crushed plastic cups
[01:22:33] and past exhausted runners somehow I felt my legs were fresh and reality I was probably every
[01:22:38] bit the Frankenstein I had appeared to be at my own 19 just an hour older what I actually looked like
[01:22:44] I can't say for sure and I'd rather not imagine but I pushed forward and grabbed Aunt Susan's hand
[01:22:49] as together we crossed the finish line then I collapsed I can honestly say that I'm a different
[01:22:57] person because of that race pushing myself through that training and navigating the emotional
[01:23:01] strain and physical stress taught me a lot about myself and even more about grief it took me
[01:23:07] years to process my brother's death and years more to organize my thoughts around what was
[01:23:12] to my could possibly gain from it it's only after more than a decade of reflection that I can
[01:23:17] share what I now know and here you kind of lay some of these out first what you don't know
[01:23:27] can't hear you can't hurt you which is an interesting concept what what you don't know can't
[01:23:34] hurt you wait hear me out I know this advice is usually given sarcastically and that can be
[01:23:39] for good reason but consider for a moment the wisdom in that phrase sometimes being naive is a blessing
[01:23:46] if I had known the physical mental and emotional told that the race would have taken on me I
[01:23:50] wouldn't run it I would have become paralyzed with fear and self doubt and my eyes would have
[01:23:55] remained forever fixed on that thread in the carpet but fear and self doubt often keep us from
[01:24:01] knowing our own strength and that's something we simply can't risk if I had never run that race
[01:24:07] race I would never have discovered what I was capable of achieving preparation and training
[01:24:12] our great tools they provide us with confidence to dream as big as we want to but without a healthy
[01:24:17] dose of fearless ignorance we might never bother dreaming at all it's interesting advice
[01:24:23] yeah I like it it's advice I still follow to this day I mean it's it's kind of I am I will say you know
[01:24:35] pre-travus didn't really live with fear right but I didn't really do anything to be fearful of
[01:24:44] and today I definitely have those like I say you know I'm on edge I'm always on edge but I'm also on
[01:24:51] edge in a way than I'm like what's next like I'm like hungry for what's next and I the things
[01:25:00] that I've done over the last 12 years I don't even know if I could pick five of them that I would have
[01:25:08] done pre 2007 or frankly had any interest in I mean had Travis come home nobody you see Travis
[01:25:17] placed a call from my rack to my dad to say run the marathon he wasn't called me to say run the
[01:25:22] marathon you that wasn't even a thought in his head because he knew that there was no way I would
[01:25:27] even consider running a marathon and I've just kind of approached things as like I'm just going to
[01:25:36] do it you know what's the worst that can happen and and you do you have this like what's the my
[01:25:42] brother is dead what's the worst that can happen you know I don't make it I don't make I don't
[01:25:48] finish the race and you know and that was 12 years ago and that was my I remember saying I'm
[01:25:55] going to do the finishes marathon and then I'm going to be able to say I ran a marathon and people
[01:26:01] like oh you're going to get the bug once you run one you're and I was like I never got the bug
[01:26:07] I'm like nope I have my check mark I can say when people say oh I'm like yeah I ran it
[01:26:12] you know and but I don't know what changed but you know here I am again like 12 years later and I'm
[01:26:22] rocking the Marine Corps marathon in a week and 140 pounds oh god no 20 pounds yeah yeah yeah
[01:26:32] yeah and and this is a person who's never rocked before so I go well I we have a fantastic partnership
[01:26:41] with Go Rock the Go Rock community and so I get to meet the founder of Go Rock do you have
[01:26:46] you're a met Jason McCarthy I'm not he's a great guy West Point grad and he just has this fabulous
[01:26:53] community I didn't understand it but I knew that the people connected with the Travis Manning
[01:26:59] Foundation loved rocking so I'm like all for it so they asked me to do this promotional video with Jason
[01:27:06] and to highlight our partnership and we're in Georgia and we're they're filming us and we're
[01:27:11] walking around the lake and he's like let's get Ryan a rock sack and so I put this rock sack
[01:27:15] oh yeah this set up pre-plan big time I mean the rock sack had like newspaper in it so I'm just like
[01:27:21] okay so I'm like oh this is funny because he and he's explaining the theory of rocking is like
[01:27:26] the nice thing about it is like your pace is always at a conversational pace and you know and I'm like
[01:27:32] I like that like I like that I can sit here and talk to you and we're exercising and he's
[01:27:36] talking about the benefits of it from a child perspective like you bring your kids out
[01:27:41] because they're gonna we walk in slow but you just put more weight on and you're getting a workout
[01:27:45] so conceptually I'm like okay I like it well later that night we were at a summit we had like
[01:27:52] a hundred veterans through the Travis Manning Foundation we had brought for like leadership training
[01:27:58] and later that night everybody's by the bonfire and we're few drinks in and everybody's talking
[01:28:04] about oh I'm rocking the marathon and it was like another one of their scenes instead of in
[01:28:09] my parents living room on behalf you know around a bonfire with a bunch of veterans and they're like
[01:28:15] I'm gonna I'm gonna rock the marathon I'm gonna and it was like came to me and I'm like
[01:28:19] I'm rocking the marathon and I woke up the next day and I was like yeah I don't know if I'm
[01:28:24] rocking the marathon but then I get back to Philadelphia and a rock sack shows up at my
[01:28:30] front door and I was like oh crap I guess I'm rocking the marathon itself yeah it's I was uh
[01:28:39] I was talking to Travis Mills yeah I love Travis is awesome but we were talking about
[01:28:45] you know I was talking to him like why do you and he was a total stud in high school
[01:28:50] Paul like that records like he's and he's just like a beast of a human athlete and you know I said to him
[01:28:57] why don't you go to like special forces or why don't you go to range school he's like I didn't
[01:29:00] know if I could make it and I was like oh that's funny because I as a young 18 year old kid when I
[01:29:06] joined the Navy I had enough of this right here I had enough of what do you say uh
[01:29:11] ignorance you know I was I was like an average athlete yeah and I was like oh seal training
[01:29:19] I'll make it through whatever you know and here's a total stud that was he was like I didn't
[01:29:24] know if I could make it I was like I'm you didn't have it he didn't have enough fearless ignorance
[01:29:28] but um yeah so it's the same thing and I find that a lot with these young kids that
[01:29:34] there's some kids that want to be seals but I meet I have people come to my gym here and they look
[01:29:39] like I really wanted to go seals but I know if I could make it I'm always thinking man you're
[01:29:43] in better shape than I ever want it's right but you gotta have a little bit of fearless ignorance
[01:29:47] yeah that's a little bit yeah I mean hey I'm I'm using my fearless ignorance again to
[01:29:54] rock this marathon I'm just you know but but that also comes coupled with um knowing how
[01:30:03] hard a marathon is so Chrisda who's in a lot of this book you know she's I've convinced her to
[01:30:09] rock the marathon with me she's never done a marathon before and we did 80 miles last week and she's
[01:30:15] like I feel great like this feels great I feel like I could keep going and I'm like you
[01:30:20] don't understand this that last 7.2 miles that that puts you over the edge I'm like she has
[01:30:25] the fear of the sacred she has no idea got it right where you want yeah I'm like I know so I
[01:30:30] I'd rather be in your shoes right now here's your next piece of advice from this section second
[01:30:36] embrace your support system relationships or everything friends family and loved ones can get us
[01:30:40] through our darkest and saddest moments we just need to let them our friends and families feed our
[01:30:45] wild ambitions they gently and lovingly protect us from our own self-destructive habits they
[01:30:51] list lift us up when we can't go another step with a loving support system we can afford to be a
[01:30:56] little naive be bald be fearless but don't do it alone you are human and you are one person
[01:31:01] allow yourself to be carried forward by those who love you and then your last piece of advice in
[01:31:07] this section and finally don't wait I beg you please don't wait I had no idea how tough I was
[01:31:17] why did I wait until my brother was dead to find out my only regret of that marathon in 2007
[01:31:23] was that it didn't take place in 2006 you know who would have loved to run and train with me
[01:31:28] Travis something like that which required focus and discipline was far more up his alley than mine
[01:31:33] he would have been so proud and we would have had a ball together there are so many things I
[01:31:38] wish I could have done together wish we could have done together I'm not the same woman he knew
[01:31:44] when he was alive I'm better I'm stronger why did I wait for him to disappear before I became
[01:31:50] the woman I wanted to be don't wait don't wait
[01:31:56] continuing on in 2007 if you were to graph my emotions for that year you would produce an
[01:32:08] interesting line a fairly stable higher horizontal line of contentment for the beginning of the year
[01:32:13] a drastic drop in April when Travis died then a gradual climb back up toward happiness until
[01:32:19] the marathon six months later I was so grateful to have something to focus on that helped me put
[01:32:23] the pieces of my life back together after the loss of my brother who was precisely the medicine I needed
[01:32:29] but by winter my line was dropping again the decline in my happiness and well being was persistent
[01:32:35] steady and interestingly almost undetectable I of course knew that my life had been far better
[01:32:42] when Travis was in it but I was managing wasn't I after all I was getting up going to work
[01:32:47] being a mom I was running errands and knocking out personal goals I was socializing and even laughing
[01:32:52] and finding joy here and there by any external the barometer I was improving I was wounded no doubt
[01:32:59] but I was happy but grief is very much an internal battle it's not kind enough to play by the rules
[01:33:06] and it certainly doesn't register on any emotional barometer it can be deceptive and believe
[01:33:12] you're not so can you in fact I would wager that no one can deceive you as effectively as you
[01:33:21] can deceive yourself grief pain sadness these feel like disadvantages they threaten our survival so
[01:33:28] naturally we shed them we convince ourselves we convince ourselves that they've gone away this is
[01:33:34] precisely what I did and it's amazing what I managed to hide from myself and for how long my emotional
[01:33:40] slope continued to creep stealthily downward for several years it continued right under my nose
[01:33:45] until Christmas 9 of 2012 when I reached rock bottom but the seeds of my deterioration had been planted
[01:33:52] several years before now we've talked about your brother and obviously had your dad on the podcast
[01:34:02] we're gonna talk about your mom a little bit and this is how you describe your mom Janet Janet
[01:34:06] Manion was a tough optimistic and focused she made every decision with self assurance as if
[01:34:12] despite any concerns or doubts that she may have been harboring the anxieties the worries they were
[01:34:18] there of course they had to be she simply would not allow them to triumph over her she had
[01:34:26] herculine will power for years after Travis's death my mother continued to be the picture of
[01:34:32] stalwart strength she ached in a way that only a mother who is buried her son can but she never
[01:34:39] let it keep her down it was especially disorienting for me then when I learned a few years later
[01:34:47] that my mother this penant of courage for our family had only eight months to live
[01:34:55] we got the news in 2011 four years after Travis's death a surgery revealed that stage four
[01:35:03] lung cancer had spread throughout her body eight months after eight months later a few days
[01:35:11] before the fifth anniversary of Travis's death my mother joined him in heaven and only five years
[01:35:18] my only sibling and my mother had died my family of four had been reduced to two I was devastated
[01:35:26] no marathon was going to make this loss and he easier to bear I had no idea where to turn for help
[01:35:31] I simply couldn't stomach the thought of picking up the pieces once again I hadn't even collected them all the
[01:35:37] first time in the months after my mother's death on April 24th 2012 I turned to the methods
[01:35:45] of coping that had become familiar to me I threw myself into my work and into my family's busy
[01:35:50] schedule I set small goals losing weight reading running anything to keep waking up every day
[01:35:57] and moving it had worked before had meant it could work again I figured I was wrong
[01:36:16] you know I think when I look at the the five-year span between
[01:36:21] Travis and my mom I kind of I'll say I peaked in terms of like with that marathon it was
[01:36:35] like I'm going to do this you know and and then from there it just became this idea like I
[01:36:41] talk now like when people ask me to screw fend like no it doesn't but at that time I didn't know
[01:36:49] that and so I thought grief grief was over for me did you have any was there any indication of what
[01:36:59] was going to what was going to happen with your mom no I mean if you looked at my family dynamic after
[01:37:10] Travis was killed she was the sparta woman that had taken over and was leading the charge
[01:37:17] and it was kind of my dad and I following behind her I mean I can't put into words the the strength
[01:37:28] that she displayed and and now with three kids in my own I can't even I can't even fathom it
[01:37:36] and so you know I was doing things between those five years she had started the Travis
[01:37:41] Manning Foundation and at first my dad and I looked at it as almost a labor of love it was like okay
[01:37:49] well this is good it's like the small memorial fond and it'll keep her distracted yeah I mean
[01:37:55] seriously we had those conversations like great way for her to channel her grief to work
[01:38:00] through things she can help people locally I mean that's how we saw it that is that is so funny
[01:38:06] because you're sitting there going oh that's fine and she's like got a master plan going on yeah oh it
[01:38:11] was like it couldn't looking back it couldn't have been more short sighted on our parts to think
[01:38:17] that she was just going to la di da around town you know and be like I've got a memorial fun like
[01:38:22] no I mean she right away was like we're going to be one of the I mean she would say things like
[01:38:30] our 9-11 heroes run this was like a 5k run that we had the year after Travis
[01:38:35] uh was killed 9-11 heroes run it was 300 people in Doyle's town Pennsylvania you know a small
[01:38:42] suburban town outside of Philadelphia and I was like this is so cool like great run great to have
[01:38:49] the community out and my mom comes up and she's like I want this to be the Susan G. Coleman
[01:38:55] race for the cure for our military community we need one of these in every city and state across
[01:39:01] the country and I'm like and you know my dad and I would be like okay Janet like like I roll like
[01:39:07] why don't we just try to get like a thousand people at the run next year you know that would be like a
[01:39:11] cool goal but you know you look at where we are today we've got we just finished our
[01:39:19] racers 90 runs across the world brought out 60 thousand people yeah Janet was in play are the
[01:39:27] Susan G. Coleman race for the cure for the military community you know bringing awareness to
[01:39:33] our military and first responders and so you know I'm watching her do that and I joined the
[01:39:42] foundation in early 2010 and I'm just kind of I mean my title was executive director my real
[01:39:53] title was Janet Manions assistant you know I mean I was her assistant and I was happy to
[01:40:00] to be that and to play that role because frankly I had no idea what I was doing and I'm following
[01:40:06] behind her and just kind of it was like you know she was teaching me you know it was I was
[01:40:17] watching everything that she did I was trying to emulate how she was doing it she was so bold
[01:40:23] and fearless like she would she had no problem asking anyone for anything and I was just like
[01:40:31] God if I can just hang around her enough to gain some of that experience and so our time was so limited
[01:40:39] that I was able to do that with her until the time she was diagnosed with cancer and it was
[01:40:46] another one of those just like gut punches but it came in like a different form as opposed to like
[01:40:52] knock going right it comes as my arm hurts your kid was you know being a pain in the butt and when
[01:41:00] I tried to pick her up she wiggled out of my arm and we're down at the beach and oh mom throw some
[01:41:06] throw some ice on it you know and we get back home and she's like my arm still hurts it's not
[01:41:13] incredibly swollen or anything like how I you don't think anything of it and so it's like a couple
[01:41:19] days later I think I'm gonna go to get my arm checked out all right I'll go with you go down to
[01:41:25] our she calls our friend who's in an orthopedic hey can you run an x-ray on me I think I might have
[01:41:30] broke my arm yeah come on in you know we left the foundation office we go in they give her an
[01:41:36] x-ray and he comes out and I just you just you knew and he comes out and he goes um so you have a
[01:41:42] little break there but I want to send you down to my friend pen to take a look at it
[01:41:48] um because there's you know just to just to get another look and you know you get another opinion
[01:41:55] well all right you just told me I broke my arm you're not gonna cast it and I'm like this is weird
[01:41:59] so I'll make you an appointment let's get you down there tomorrow and we show up at the office and it was
[01:42:06] my mom my dad and I never remember we walk up and it's like doctor someone so orthopedic oncologists
[01:42:15] and we were like you know unlike and I'm like my mom has bone cancer you know that's all I'm thinking
[01:42:22] like what and so she goes into surgery the next day and you know you don't know what a diagnosis
[01:42:31] looks like it's like she's got a tumor in her arm okay that's the most random thing I've ever heard
[01:42:35] in my life um and they're like well she had a tumor in her arm we removed it but the tumor didn't
[01:42:45] didn't start there so now we have to figure out like where it came from but that also means that
[01:42:51] wherever it came from it has spread and so it's like another and that night my parents are
[01:42:58] slated my mom's in a bed at University of Pennsylvania Hospital and my parents are supposed to be
[01:43:03] getting the um Commodore Berry citizen of the year award presented to them by general dumpfort
[01:43:09] and so my dad and I um head to the event we come back um and we get back to the room and
[01:43:19] the doctors like yeah it's uh started in her lung it's in her brain it's in her back I mean it
[01:43:26] it was everywhere and not one symptom at all like not one symptom she was not smoking cigarettes
[01:43:34] while training for a marathon you know I mean it was it was crazy it was like how does how does this happen
[01:43:40] you know and I've read a lot of studies on like grief manifestation with stress and how like your
[01:43:48] body sometimes can um let go of certain cells when you're experiencing trauma and I think there's I
[01:43:57] mean I have to believe there's something to say to that um you know Brendan Loonie's mom died
[01:44:05] three years after he was killed from cancer so I mean the the coincidences are are a lot um but
[01:44:15] you know the doctors tell us like you've got eight months to live with treatment if you decide
[01:44:20] to go to the treatment route it's just gonna help prolong you we're gonna give you about eight months
[01:44:25] my mom never really took that and was like she didn't do one of these I've got eight months to
[01:44:32] live this is what I'm gonna do she was just like okay I'm gonna start my treatments and I'm gonna
[01:44:37] keep working so you know you're she's diagnosed with stage four cancer and she's back in the
[01:44:43] office the next day and she's staying in there with you know a wrap around her arm where she had just
[01:44:49] had surgery but like it was it was a little off putting because nothing changed it wasn't like okay
[01:44:56] everything changes now what she was like now we've got a we've got a job to do and it wasn't until
[01:45:02] the very end when her health started to take um a bit of a decline that I took on more of a care
[01:45:10] take a role with her but this was like it was like eight months and six and a half of those months were just
[01:45:19] you would have never known anything was different so you know she's going to chemotherapy minutes
[01:45:25] maybe she's sick for a day she's back in the office the next day um very you know she's serving she
[01:45:29] had an appointment um an official appointment at Arlington she served on the Arlington committee
[01:45:35] um and you know she's she's taken calls and doing meetings from her bedside you know and so she
[01:45:44] she kind of kept focus on she didn't focus on what her her illness she focused on everything else
[01:45:51] um and it just got to the point at the end where her body went to allow her to to keep going like that
[01:45:58] but it was it was you know two weeks where she was really where you're like oh you're your sick
[01:46:05] but the rest of the time you would have really never known you know people look at pictures of my
[01:46:10] mom and I'm like yeah that's just a couple weeks before they did she died and they're like what
[01:46:14] could you have you know the image in your head of someone with dying of stage four cancer like
[01:46:20] she just she didn't look like that and what were you thinking this whole time
[01:46:24] I was very pragmatic I was like my mom's dying in eight months I did not um my dad on the other
[01:46:34] side was like I'm not listening to that like there's there's miracles happen every day we just got
[01:46:42] to you know stay the course things will see if there's trials you know they're trying all sorts of
[01:46:47] different holistic diets and and I was very much um supportive of that let's try everything and
[01:46:55] anything but I almost felt so jaded at that point in in life a little bit that I was like yeah I mean
[01:47:04] we got we got eight months let's see what these eight months look like
[01:47:08] you say here grief is a savage and true beast that isn't easily tamed
[01:47:19] as soon as I found a method of fending off my grief that worked for me it caught on and found a new mode of attack
[01:47:26] saying goal oriented and tough minded got me only so far then the year my mother died on Christmas
[01:47:32] night at 2012 it came to find me in my home and so your mom dies and you again this is all
[01:47:41] stuff that you talk about in the book these big parties that you guys have these big Christmas
[01:47:45] parties and they kind of go they've gone from generation to generation and your grandparents had
[01:47:48] them and your parents had them and so now it's your turn and so you have this big party and
[01:47:55] you know the the the pandemonium or whatever of a party and the planning and all that stuff
[01:48:01] and then the parties over and after the after the party you lay down you know you're really
[01:48:08] tired from doing all the work of getting it ready and you're tired but here we go back to the book
[01:48:14] but sleep didn't come something much nastier arrived in its place I felt like I received a direct
[01:48:19] punch to the gut and my eyes immediately sprang open I started hyperventilating I couldn't breathe
[01:48:24] pressure was quickly building inside my chest and my mind was on fire with anxiety it was the
[01:48:29] most terrifying panic attack I have ever experienced Dave you have to get me to the hospital I managed
[01:48:33] to get out I think I'm dying I will forever be grateful for what my husband said next
[01:48:39] no you're not stop Ryan just relax and go to bed but then you say you might think I'm getting
[01:48:47] but I'm serious and I did think you were kidding and you are serious my husband always knows what to say
[01:48:51] to me when my emotions reach a fever pitch if I had sensed even the slightest bit of concern
[01:48:57] in his voice I know the situation would have only escalated at the time however as you may imagine
[01:49:02] I did not appreciate it I immediately set off into a flurry of accusations that thankfully I
[01:49:06] can no longer remember Dave the peaceful warrior that he is remained unfazed instead he continued
[01:49:11] to speak rationally and firmly there's probably only a few minutes but they felt like my last
[01:49:16] with the intense feelings of anxiety when the intense feelings of anxiety disappeared
[01:49:21] and my breathing slowed into a natural rhythm I had an internal come to Jesus with myself
[01:49:27] clearly I was not okay I dealt with some minor anxiety before initially when Travis was deployed
[01:49:34] and then immediately after his death but nothing like this this was positively debilitating
[01:49:39] for several for the next several months I was a ghost of my former self the identity I
[01:49:43] painstakingly built for myself after Travis died a chatter on December 24th, 2012 I identified
[01:49:49] as a tough capable resilient woman I was a marathon runner I was a dedicated mom and supportive
[01:49:54] wife I had taken over as executive director of the Travis Manion Foundation the organizer
[01:49:58] the organization my mother formed to honor my brother I let a talented team and people look to
[01:50:03] me for guidance and leadership and I gave it to them but December 25th was a different ball game
[01:50:09] I was gasping for air and cursing my cursing out my exceedingly calm husband I was smoking again
[01:50:15] I crying in the shower and regularly feeling seized by anxiety that I simply couldn't shake off
[01:50:21] if this is what life is like going to be if this is what life is going to be like from now on
[01:50:25] I thought to myself one day I'm done I can't live like this
[01:50:33] then then you talk about communicating with some of your friends commiserating with Amy
[01:50:37] this is Brendan's wife was deeply helpful in putting me back on the path to recovery two years
[01:50:44] earlier she had lost her husband Brendan if there's anyone with whom I felt I could be completely
[01:50:49] vulnerable it was her one day I called her overwhelmed and furious my therapist diagnosed me with
[01:50:57] post-traumatic stress disorder today I shouted into the receiver can you believe that shit I don't
[01:51:03] have PTSD and then you go on and she says it's okay Ryan she told me my therapist told me the same
[01:51:11] thing at that point we both chuckled in a dawned on me that there was likely some truth
[01:51:15] that I'd notice naming my problem didn't do much for me but sharing it with someone else did
[01:51:21] during the following six months I started to regain my confidence humor and peace I slowly
[01:51:26] reclaimed myself life slowed down I focused on my mental health that did not mean I threw
[01:51:31] physical challenges out the window quite the opposite I began to understand what my dad meant
[01:51:35] when he told me to go for a run when I wasn't feeling myself exercise has a tremendous positive
[01:51:41] effect on the mind I was using simple exercise as a tool to help with my mental state
[01:51:52] and you again you go into some pretty good detail about this idea of not just exercise but
[01:51:59] setting these kind of little goals and doing things that sort of give you an immediate short-term
[01:52:04] gratification and you get sort of on this treadmill of you're looking for these short-term
[01:52:10] gratification things to really propel you for the next ten minutes whatever next hour and
[01:52:18] you know whether it's a run or whether it's a goal or whether it's some party or you're just
[01:52:25] you're looking for you're looking for like happiness yeah gratification temporary joy
[01:52:31] but you realize that that's not giving you the profound happiness that you're looking for.
[01:52:40] Yeah so you say this to break away from that unforgiving pattern of searching for un-matched joy
[01:52:47] you need to do one very important thing you have to be honest with yourself no more self-deception
[01:52:54] for a long time I had lied to myself about how happy and fulfilled I felt frankly it was easier that way
[01:53:00] I even lied about things that made me feel happy and fulfilled if I just stay busy I would think
[01:53:08] maybe the story you tell yourself is a little different if I just lose a few more pounds if I just
[01:53:12] earn a few more thousand dollars this year if I can just get that guy to notice me then I'll be happy
[01:53:18] then I'll be okay when we shed those deceptive stories we tell ourselves we create a space where we're
[01:53:25] able to see what actually does make us authentically happy I bet you'll find you weren't totally off
[01:53:32] as I said we all seek some the same things love acceptance purpose we just look for them in the wrong
[01:53:40] places but I talked with Amy I knew that I had found them a sense of community friendship growth
[01:53:47] they were all right they're laid out in front of me and it was because I took a moment of quiet
[01:53:52] away from the activity and the chaos that I got to experience and appreciate it in an intentional
[01:53:57] and meaningful way intention was the key that I'd been missing I was so caught up in goals and
[01:54:04] milestones and challenges and ambitions that I'd missed the simple but profound element that makes
[01:54:09] everything worthwhile and the fact is I'm still hungry I'm still ambitious I'm still a fighter I
[01:54:16] like to push my body and do things I may not quite be ready for and how he hell yes I've still got
[01:54:21] goals and dreams but now I also have something else I believe that the single greatest key to resilience
[01:54:27] is setting intentional goals achieving a goal for the sake of vanglorian sheer accomplishment
[01:54:34] will bring satisfaction but that satisfaction will prove to be short lived achieving goals that
[01:54:39] have deep meaning to us will bring us far more happiness when we set goals that have meaning
[01:54:44] outside of our own selfish ends we discover it's not about the destination it's about the journey
[01:54:56] that's powerful and for me that part right there at the end when we set goals that have meaning
[01:55:03] outside of our own selfish ends and that's the lesson that when I when I hear travel
[01:55:11] this is story it's like oh what made his life so meaningful is that what he was doing was not for
[01:55:18] himself right everything he was doing was that he could be a leader so he could protect so he could
[01:55:26] defend yeah yeah that you know you talk about April 29 2007 is the worst day of my life but if
[01:55:40] you try to find out the worst time of my life it would be after my mom passed away
[01:55:52] it was one of those things where you know you kind of do this oh when I thought I was the
[01:56:00] when I thought Travis being killed was the woman being hit with the icicle fallin off the garage
[01:56:05] like this is like let me tell you about the craziest story I've ever heard you know like how
[01:56:12] how could my mom and my brother both not be here and through that five years I was led by my parents
[01:56:27] largely in terms of things I was doing to honor my brother but it was I don't want to say
[01:56:36] robotic but it was it was these small little things it was like okay run a marathon and it was
[01:56:41] like go to this ceremony and five years out from the loss there's still a lot of
[01:56:47] attention that's brought to that loss in in a loss of a service member I mean you're going to have
[01:56:52] you know you're going to have the local schools that want to honor them at Memorial Day you
[01:56:58] the family's want to be brought in on Veterans Day it's it's those things and they kind of like
[01:57:03] they lead you through the years and and I'll tell you what they're meaningful and they mean something
[01:57:10] and they're very much appreciated but then after my mom was killed or passed away I just felt lost
[01:57:24] I was like oh my gosh like I don't I don't know what you do from here and I just handle it the
[01:57:37] same way well okay you know Travis Manning Foundation Board of Directors three weeks after her death
[01:57:43] held the board meeting and they're like you're up you know you're the president oh well and
[01:57:48] when I joined my mom as executive director I joined my mom as a you know it was still a small
[01:57:55] organization but she takes in five years and turns it into one of the top leading non-profits for
[01:58:04] veterans in the country and they're like okay Ryan go and I'm like oh crap like I don't know
[01:58:11] how how to do this I have no idea and I always tell my husband he's going to hate that I say this
[01:58:19] I told him this is going to be the title my next book he's like no it's not but I said like I did
[01:58:24] a little like fake it till you make it so I was like okay I'm the president and and I know what I'm
[01:58:29] doing and you know this is how it's going to be and um and the first thing I did I just started like
[01:58:36] hiring really smart people I'm like okay we're the smartest people I can find and I'm going to get
[01:58:42] them and they're going to be the team of leadership that's going to make sure um that we drive this
[01:58:47] forward but then there was also this tremendous weight because here you had this organization
[01:58:56] that was named after my brother that had become like people at this point like you say Travis
[01:59:03] Manion and they know that name so there's a heavy burden to make sure you uphold the
[01:59:08] responsibility of what that name represents and then on top of it you uphold the responsibility of
[01:59:15] the woman that created it that's no longer here so I felt pressure like I had never felt before
[01:59:24] and I didn't take any steps to say okay how intentional steps to say how do I move forward doing this?
[01:59:36] It was just became the same rat race that I had been doing for the five years prior it was like okay
[01:59:41] God I keep going and that felt really tough to me I was like you know I remember sitting there the
[01:59:47] day before my mom's funeral and there was all these people around much different scene than the chaos
[01:59:53] around Travis's death I'm sitting there and I'm like I need you to do this this is my
[01:59:59] ulogy I want you to go home go back and make these revisions on the computer print it back like
[02:00:04] I was running the show I'm like I'm in charge I'm taking over I'm going to make sure all this
[02:00:09] is getting done and we do the most beautiful tribute to this woman and after that I kept going just
[02:00:20] with that same like do do do like grind every single day whatever it may be and then it was that
[02:00:28] Christmas party where and my husband again you know he's he he has some insight and he said I don't
[02:00:39] think you throwing a Christmas party this year for a hundred people is smart like we are we've got so
[02:00:47] much going on we are so incredibly overwhelmed you're so busy like let's just give it a rest I mean
[02:00:55] I think he was even like dangling you know a trip to the islands or Christmas in my face and I'm like
[02:01:01] no way you know it's all about the memories we have to have it you know and the idea that the
[02:01:09] year after my mom passes away we wouldn't have this like that's just unheard of like there's no way
[02:01:17] and so I continued in that robot robot mode like this when I got to do I have to execute this
[02:01:24] what needs to be done and it was once I hit that wall after it was done it was like that was the
[02:01:31] mecca I'd hit it and everything just came kind of crashing down and you know that panic attack that
[02:01:40] night it was I I've had anxiety a little bit you know growing up in my teens like you know
[02:01:50] what what what I should say what I thought was anxiety this was literally I thought I was dying I was
[02:01:59] like I'm I'm I'm dying here on Christmas night and and it was my husband being like in you know he's like
[02:02:06] shut up you're not dying I'm tired and it was hearing those words like I'm tired I'm like all right
[02:02:13] well clearly if I'm dying my husband's not gonna tell me he's tired and to be quiet you know and it
[02:02:18] brought me down but you know after that it was waking up every day that was one thing you know
[02:02:26] a panic attack a year or something like and I could understand that I got that it was like well yeah
[02:02:32] you had a panic attack because you've had such an adrenaline rush for the last five months building
[02:02:37] up to everything you've been doing culminating with this event that your mom used to host like
[02:02:43] I could justify a panic it made sense like your body was just having that let down and it went
[02:02:49] into an anxious response it was that idea that I was waking up every day and I woke up and
[02:02:59] upon eyes opening I wasn't crying I was like shaking and I'm like what is going on and I hit it
[02:03:05] for a while I didn't tell my husband and tell my friend like I told no one because I'm just like
[02:03:11] so you know I was like you don't want your husband to say shut up I'm tired exactly what I was like
[02:03:18] has time yeah it was not good words in most cases yeah and I'm just husbands beware yeah don't you
[02:03:24] know and and to this he's like you know here I am who am I in the book the guy that tells you to
[02:03:29] shut up when you're having a bad time and I'm like no babe what I do but it was that each and every
[02:03:39] day and I got to the point where I'm like I'm having mental health issues right now like this is
[02:03:47] not just a isolated event like something's something's happening here and to have me go sit on a
[02:03:54] couch with a therapist was like for me that was that was a big deal and a big deal because you thought
[02:04:05] you're too you're too strong for this you know it it's just like not who I was I mean I think
[02:04:10] when I opened up the first time to my dad about this it was my dad and my husband and we were in
[02:04:16] the kitchen and I said hey I'm I'm struggling I don't know what's going on with me but I'm I'm
[02:04:22] not feeling right I'm living in a perpetual state of anxiety and I don't know how to get out of it
[02:04:30] and you know at that time I I had um lorazapam it's like a low dosage Xanx that I had because
[02:04:41] I would take it when I flew you know and oh here's something just to cut the edge when you fly
[02:04:46] and next you know like I'm taking these every day and they're not even doing anything and
[02:04:51] I'm like okay so I finally break down I tell my dad and tell my dad and Dave and my dad's like
[02:05:01] first responses whoa I mean I haven't seen you working out in a while right and so I mean that and that's
[02:05:06] how I was raised and he was like you know I mean you got to go out and run and I'm like and I knew
[02:05:12] that was going to be the response and so for a while I was like well I'm not going to say anything but
[02:05:17] from there was you know and in my dad's defense you know I think after he said that I broke down
[02:05:24] and tears I'm like it's not that you know and he was like oh crap something serious is going on here
[02:05:29] and so you know I got into therapy and um and therapy helps yeah so this is something that I've realized
[02:05:39] so I used to um not really understand what therapy was or what a psychologist did or any of that
[02:05:47] and to me it just seemed like voodoo whatever kind of things right and it wasn't until a friend of
[02:05:54] mine Jordan Peterson who's a who's a psychologist came on here and he was explained to me like two
[02:05:59] two things that he solved for people and that's when I realized and I claimed a term of my own
[02:06:07] called either a mind mechanic or like brain mechanic because when your car when your car isn't running
[02:06:14] right you don't just keep driving it you go oh this isn't running right I'm going to take it to
[02:06:19] man mechanic mechanic and the mechanic actually every day sees different cars with different
[02:06:23] problems and knows how to fix them so a psychologist or a therapist they deal with people that have
[02:06:29] been through all these different things and they have little solutions for them to tell you to things
[02:06:34] to do to to get your mind in the right space so you can carry on that's what they're doing they're
[02:06:41] not doing any voodoo voodoo they're just doing some mind mechanic adjustments yeah and you can't
[02:06:48] imagine how I know for me I think my first therapy session I went in and she's asking me questions
[02:06:56] and you know it's like I'm having a conversation with a friend and then she go okay times up
[02:07:01] I'm like well when when are we going to start therapy she's like I was therapy and I'm like oh
[02:07:06] did she give you did she give you like techniques totally yeah can you give me an example of just one
[02:07:13] so you know there's like the breathing techniques of course like for me a lot of it was like the
[02:07:17] breathing because I would get to like these peaked peaked feelings of anxiety where you know it was
[02:07:24] like fighter flight and it was like breathing exercises to help get me back down so she says okay
[02:07:31] when you start feeling like that here's what you're gonna do yeah tell me what would you do uh like you
[02:07:36] know it was you know you I think one of them was like you're gonna take a deep breath in you're
[02:07:41] gonna hold it for three seconds and then you're gonna let it out for 10 seconds while holding your
[02:07:47] diaphragm so you can actually like feel the breath coming out I developed my own techniques too like
[02:07:55] I have to this day I've developed my own techniques to help when I'm feeling anxious um do you
[02:08:02] give me example one oh they're so girly but yeah um my my examples are not saying I'm gonna use it
[02:08:08] okay so so one of my examples is um most of the time and I actually don't most time I keep my
[02:08:16] my nails polished okay and I can get it oh and I'll like peel the nail polish off fun feeling
[02:08:25] super anxious but what it is more than that wait so that's a sign that you're getting anxious no no
[02:08:31] that's like if I'm super anxious so if you're super anxious you start picking it your fingernails
[02:08:35] yeah taking the nail polish off okay and I put the nail polish on because I don't want to pick
[02:08:39] the skin off my fingers so that's a that's a technique is to let's my technique it's not a okay
[02:08:45] but it's it's something that calms you somehow yeah you know what it is though I'll say it's not
[02:08:50] so much the peeling the nail polish off there it's finding something that you have to concentrate on
[02:08:56] yeah so once I pick a piece of nail polish off my finger I'm not gonna let my hands look like that
[02:09:03] so I have to get every last piece of nail polish off without nail polish remover with my with my
[02:09:09] fingers and that takes time and effort and I just become focused on that and so that it's like
[02:09:17] that sort of thing can kind of bring you into for me it brings me into a place of like I'm
[02:09:22] concentrating on this so one thing that I realize that I do is when when you're in the military
[02:09:30] when you talk on the radio you don't want to sound like you're panicking yeah yeah and so like
[02:09:34] if I was gonna keep that radio I'd be like no matter what was going on it you know whether I'm just
[02:09:39] exerting physical energy or there's chaos going on it always be like oh I'm gonna talk on the
[02:09:44] radio and I just put on the calm voice you know and I think that's when you when you say hey we need
[02:09:49] 14 more guys to come over to this building now and whatever one hears you and you hear yourself you're like
[02:09:54] okay things aren't that bad work good so I was for me we're trying to keep my voice in check
[02:10:01] and I think that leads to a sense of calmness even not not just outwardly but inwardly as well
[02:10:10] yeah I never really realized that until I started having conversations with people about this
[02:10:14] very thing because people would say how did you remain calm and I would think about it like oh just stay calm
[02:10:19] and then I thought well what let's think about it what actually and the other thing is
[02:10:24] I would tell guys you know that I was training I'd be like hey man don't you know I hear
[02:10:28] guy on the radio really need more guys over here now during a training operation and I'd say
[02:10:33] bro you need to calm down don't sound like that I'm ready freaking everyone out yeah and and they're
[02:10:37] freaking out yeah and so when I go bro don't talk like that say it again say calm they'd be like
[02:10:42] hey we need to six more guys moving forward and you could see them visibly I'd watch them
[02:10:48] they would get calmer because you have to get control so those are the kind of things that the
[02:10:54] mind mechanic will give you these tools totally and you know but for me it was it was less about
[02:11:02] staying calm it was about like I was afraid of that crescendo where literally it's that
[02:11:09] fight or flight and you don't want to go off that edge and so it was like when I get to that point
[02:11:15] what what do I do because I don't know if you've ever had an actual panic attack I had not you feel like
[02:11:21] you're dying it is the craziest feeling in the world the thing that makes me really which must
[02:11:28] make this harder right is if you like let's say you're starting to have a panic attack yeah
[02:11:33] isn't it like a snowball because you're like I'm having one you might get it coming it's coming
[02:11:38] oh my god I'm just gonna be it this could be that one so it actually it's like self
[02:11:44] propels itself to make itself work well you know I so I was saying I used to take
[02:11:49] like lorazapam when I flew you know and it was just like hey it was like my fear of you know
[02:11:56] flying right I fly so much now I'm over it but people who say were were you scared of the plane
[02:12:02] crashing and I was like no I was scared of getting too scared on the plane you know like I don't
[02:12:09] want to be on the plane and start getting scared so I'm gonna I mean it's like you're your head
[02:12:16] does crazy things you know but yeah I worked through that and you know I was very intentional
[02:12:24] about even when I felt like okay I'm coming out of this I'm feeling better it wasn't like I'm
[02:12:30] gonna stop it was like I okay I gotta keep going and I'm gonna keep going until she tells me
[02:12:38] it's you know how long did that take um it was about six months of like intensive therapy
[02:12:47] where I'm talking like I was two to three times a week and exercise so after you so exercise
[02:12:55] becomes again a big part of it but it's not exercise where I'm gonna run a marathon or I'm gonna
[02:13:01] it was like I'm gonna go out for a run every day every other day because it's what my mind
[02:13:07] needs not necessarily what my body needs I was talking to my friend Jill Rogan on his podcast
[02:13:15] right after Chris Cornell killed himself he like killed himself that day or the day before
[02:13:22] and so we started this podcast and look I mean obviously I'm no psychologist and we were just talking
[02:13:29] we weren't trying to give out advice but you know both of us was like you know gotta get some
[02:13:33] exercise and a million people said you have no idea what you're talking about like I know I'm just
[02:13:39] saying that you know it feels good to work out but then what was interesting was my other friend
[02:13:45] Tim Ferris who actually went through like a suicidal episode in his life and he's and
[02:13:53] and he's like no you have to like get outside and exercise it will make you feel better.
[02:13:58] I don't subscribe to anybody that thinks that your physical health is not 100% tied to your mental
[02:14:07] health like you know I used to think my dad was incredibly insensitive when I would try to talk
[02:14:15] to him about like you know ailments of the mind and he would tie it all back to like you know well
[02:14:21] if you ran or but you know what like he was right yeah he was right and is it all that is it like
[02:14:29] yeah hey I'm suffering from depression go run no that's not but it is it is 100% a component my
[02:14:36] husband runs every single day every day he runs and he's he's he's he's people like you
[02:14:45] gonna run the marathon he's like I'll never run a marathon again he's like I run to live my life
[02:14:50] like it's all it's all for maintenance for him it's just about like in order for me to be
[02:14:57] clear headed to be a good husband and to be a good father and to be good at my job I have to run
[02:15:03] every day so it's cool about this you know for for folks that are listening right now that are
[02:15:09] running into whatever difficulties are going through like hey cool the initial whatever the initial
[02:15:16] prescription is hey outside and then like you said it would be on that then what do we need
[02:15:24] well then you need to go and see a brain mechanic yeah which is what you said you're that hey
[02:15:28] dad it's not about running yeah yeah it's not more runny right which I probably had some conversations
[02:15:34] with like that about with my kids you know where you know my daughters they'll say like I just don't
[02:15:39] feel like doing anything right now it was like well that means you need to do something right
[02:15:42] yeah and I'm sure it's sometimes that some points are going to God my dad's an idiot
[02:15:48] yeah I mean but I want to say that you just said that you're dad which kind of supports my
[02:15:56] position you're dad was right it was right so he was right get some exercise but then if it
[02:16:01] goes beyond that and you still feel the the issues then you've got to get some some help yeah for sure
[02:16:08] um a couple more things to wrap this up along the road to intention I came across countless
[02:16:16] bumps and pitfalls but I also learned some a few valuable truths first don't use a jack hammer
[02:16:25] when a chisel will do when I saw a problem in front of me I went at it with a jack hammer I was
[02:16:32] convinced that if I applied enough force to it I could make it go away but some problems even big ones
[02:16:38] need only a well deployed chisel intention is the chisel I was introduced to intention when my mom
[02:16:45] received her eight month prognosis Travis's young life had been ripped from mine violently and quickly
[02:16:51] but in the case of my mom I was given the opportunity to say my goodbyes I asked her questions about
[02:16:57] her life and wrote down her responses we spent every day together and she held my girls every chance she
[02:17:02] got after she died all that disappeared I believed for a time that I had been robbed I was heartbroken
[02:17:12] and right back where I had started but then I relearned a lesson on intentionality I was crudely
[02:17:19] reminded of how short, sweet and precious our lives are I know the cost of not having the opportunity to
[02:17:26] say what or do what matters most and I refuse to squander the blessings that I have been given I choose
[02:17:35] to live life with in intention your next piece of advice second it's not either or it's both
[02:17:48] and let me be clear intention is not rep meant to replace girls and ambitions it's meant to
[02:17:54] call to them committing to vigorous feats physical mental or otherwise is often a good in its own right
[02:18:00] maybe you want to pass those boards or crush that personal best time or compete for that promotion
[02:18:05] these are all good things these aims are fueled by discipline and focus but they are nourished by intention
[02:18:14] difficult to attain goals and accomplishments are what keep our heart rates up in our blood pumping
[02:18:20] they give us life but intention is what gives our lives meaning it's what makes life worth living
[02:18:34] then this is your last piece of advice that I'm going to cover from the book it says failure is a bruise
[02:18:42] not a tattoo before Travis died I never bothered to think much about failure that's not because
[02:18:51] I was wildly successful everything I tried my hand at believe me I failed a plenty of things
[02:18:56] rather it was because I didn't care enough about anything to give it much effort I was sometimes
[02:19:02] apathetic Travis was ambitious Travis was the ambitious goal oriented one I was just coasting through
[02:19:09] life after he died and then my mom died I had a major wake-up call now I feel I feel compelled
[02:19:20] to take advantage of the time I have left on this earth to lead a life they both can be proud of
[02:19:28] and I think that's a good place to stop on my readings from this book to lead a life that they can
[02:19:45] be proud of because that message right there is just a powerful message and it's a one that I know
[02:19:53] that I think about every single day every single day I think about that and mind you we've only
[02:20:03] covered like a third of this book right here right there are stories and lessons from Heather and
[02:20:13] from Amy and like I said hopefully I can have them on and we can go through their lessons learned
[02:20:22] and their experiences I look forward to doing that but in the meantime for folks out there get this
[02:20:32] book and what's awesome is those stories in this book the stories the book comes to an end and we're
[02:20:40] going to end this but the story doesn't end there because Travis and Brendan and Robert are still
[02:20:45] having a huge impact and we've been talking about this the foundation that your mom started the
[02:20:51] Travis minion foundation which you are now the president of the president of yes and Amy is one of
[02:20:58] the vice presidents Amy's vice president and then Heather is a manager of program manager here in
[02:21:04] San Diego the West region yeah that's right so I mean the the lessons that you're putting now this is
[02:21:11] all in this book are awesome tell us a little bit before we before we stop tell us a little bit about
[02:21:19] the Travis minion foundation first of all like what what's the mission what's the goal
[02:21:25] I mean really at the Travis minion foundation we are we're creating a community and we want to make
[02:21:31] sure that we are giving returning veterans and families of the fallen the opportunity to continue to serve
[02:21:40] and more importantly to be able to empower them post military life I think you know when you look at
[02:21:48] today 55% of men and women who are taking off the uniform when you ask them what their greatest
[02:21:54] challenges it's that that loss of purpose you know they don't have that sense of purpose and their
[02:22:00] life anymore and we have no shortage of ways at TMF to give you purpose again and one of our
[02:22:09] biggest drivers and a lot of it is you know it's speaks to I talk about Travis as a young kid and
[02:22:14] I say like you know there was something different about him but it didn't come without having
[02:22:21] incredible mentors you know my uncle Chris my dad some of his teachers growing up the coaches
[02:22:28] Joel Sherrit at the rest of the Naval Academy is wrestling coach like these were the mentors that helped
[02:22:36] frame him into who he became and so we know the importance of that and we know the opportunity
[02:22:42] we have we have with a group of men and women who basically were taught leadership and so it's like
[02:22:51] okay so let's take this group of men and women who were taught to lead and serve and just say thanks
[02:22:57] for your service no how about like okay you're back here you're out well can you teach these
[02:23:02] kids how to leave and lead and serve so we train veterans to go out and mentor youth and they're
[02:23:09] out across the country taking them through both physical and experiential learning challenges
[02:23:19] to build their own service and leadership and not in a way to indoctrinate the next generation
[02:23:26] to all join the military but in a way to say hey listen as men and women like you and Travis and
[02:23:33] Brendan and Rob like they were called to serve this country in military but as Americans each and
[02:23:41] every one of us is called to serve like we have a responsibility to do that and if we're not
[02:23:46] passing that down to the next generation then we're failing and so that's that's kind of our
[02:23:53] drive at the foundation so we we just want to create a community that wants to pass that down
[02:23:59] and we've got eight offices across the country we've got a membership base of about 120,000 people
[02:24:07] and you know we we we call ourselves the Spartans like and we're largely made up of civilians
[02:24:13] believe it or not but these are people that feel that sense of pride for men and women like you
[02:24:21] you know and they want to be able to eat that up and be a part of it and and be servant leaders
[02:24:26] right in the room backyards and our our organization does not exist if we don't have veterans
[02:24:34] leading the charge and gold star families like they run our programs so we're not a veteran
[02:24:39] service organization in the way where we're saying these this is what we offer to you we're a
[02:24:43] veteran service organization that says hey we really want to do good stuff in the community so
[02:24:48] we need you guys to help us out yeah no it's an awesome program that that I you guys made a video
[02:24:55] we did that I'm in and I went to LA but but what's awesome is they're just
[02:25:03] they're getting to kids you know and the same idea that I had which is which is hey
[02:25:11] there's a bunch of kids in the world and what they need is to learn about life and learn about
[02:25:18] the word that you guys use which I will use as well because it's the right word is character
[02:25:23] yeah and and how do you teach these young kids character well that's you know I've written a bunch
[02:25:28] of kids books that that try to teach kids about character and the values that will the values
[02:25:34] that will give them a better life right that will give them a better life and will give everyone
[02:25:40] around them a better life as well so that's awesome the other thing that's awesome is what you
[02:25:45] just said you know me you know many times a day I get a message from someone that says hey
[02:25:51] um 52 years old and I never served and I feel like I regret it and I wish I could have
[02:25:58] what should I do it's like this is what you do yeah this is what you do you you you help
[02:26:04] propel the message and the message of character back to the veterans from the veterans back to
[02:26:10] the youth that's what you do you there's so many different ways to serve you don't have to put
[02:26:15] on a uniform to serve there's so many different ways to serve and what you guys are doing
[02:26:19] is offering and offering people the opportunity to find other ways to serve that are just as
[02:26:25] impactful I'll tell you right now you go out there and you help free kids get on the right path in
[02:26:34] their life that is the biggest service you can make to the country that's it that's it go do that
[02:26:40] that has such a massive impact and you guys are enabling that you guys are at so so if people want
[02:26:50] to if people want to get on board yeah we go to Travismanion.org Travismanion.org yeah you can
[02:26:56] join the mission right there we have it and I mean it walks you through everything like this is
[02:27:01] everything we do what do you want to be a part of you know and um yeah join the mission and learn
[02:27:06] more you're a social media because echo is really the social media so it's on Twitter it's TM
[02:27:14] foundation correct on Instagram which echo calls the gram the gram yeah it's Travismanion
[02:27:23] foundation on Facebook it's Travismanion foundation and you guys have a YouTube channel as well
[02:27:28] we do we've got great videos there's a couple of you up there actually is there more than one yeah
[02:27:32] well they broke down some of your outtakes and just did like it's like a minute long like
[02:27:38] wait is it bloopers it's not bloopers it's like thoughts from jaca like no it's cool I was
[02:27:44] gonna say I don't know how many bloopers because they had a big chunk of time like hours and hours
[02:27:49] and I was like how long it's gonna take to like what we got five hours set aside and I was like
[02:27:54] okay that's a long video yeah but it didn't take that long well it was funny because I was with
[02:28:00] Pat Chapman who was the one that that film Joe he was the producer of the the piece and he's a good friend of mine
[02:28:06] he lives in LA and he said I said oh I'm doing jacco's podcast on Friday and he said oh my gosh
[02:28:13] I have to tell you he said you know I got in the car with like I guess like the grips or whatever and he said yeah
[02:28:17] you know we're doing we're doing a shoot today this guy's name's jacco and they were like are you kidding me
[02:28:22] and he's like and these you know he's like they weren't in the military so I didn't he's like I thought it was really like heavily
[02:28:27] focused on the military he's like these are like my key grips and they were like oh my god jacco they were
[02:28:33] thrilled that's awesome yeah it's really interesting the the demographics of people at
[02:28:39] listen to podcasts it's everyone yeah it's really it's really cool and you know like they find
[02:28:45] well this is a great opportunity for them to find a way to serve because everyone feels that if you let
[02:28:49] somewhere in their system yeah if you go through your life looking out for yourself
[02:28:53] without helping other people you'll look up one day and you'll say I want to help other people
[02:28:59] that's just that's just the way it is yeah so those are the ways to help to join the mission
[02:29:06] join the way you said that I kind of got I got it been it's good psychologist that you
[02:29:11] just said you said because since I hear that I'm like what oh that I've been to join it
[02:29:14] so I'm real easy when it comes to things like that you start throwing those words around
[02:29:18] and all of a sudden I'm breaking out the knives getting ready to go to battle you see that
[02:29:22] like new mission whatever you like that you know yeah yeah well that's something that I say all
[02:29:27] the time to vats like when you get done with your military service you need a new mission totally and
[02:29:31] the people that don't get a new mission they wander around not knowing what to do so here's a good
[02:29:37] way whether you're civilian whether you're military to get on board thanks Alex keep the mission
[02:29:44] you got anything else um I mean obviously gonna encourage everyone to go get the book yes
[02:29:55] get the book knock the knock at the door it's out right now you we we if you order this right now
[02:30:03] you'll get a first edition which so I'm really in the first editions yeah you got to get the
[02:30:10] first edition so if you guys want first edition of knock on the door and then you'll be able to
[02:30:14] fuck people always say how could you don't tell us what books you're gonna do on the podcast it's
[02:30:18] because I don't know what books I'm gonna do on the podcast until like a couple days before I do it
[02:30:23] but with this one since I'll have hopefully Heather and Amy on at some point you'll be able to have
[02:30:28] the book in your possession and have already read it so that we also yeah take through the
[02:30:34] repartti yeah so knock at the door and then you can you can follow me our manion at you know on
[02:30:42] Facebook and Instagram and Twitter just to you know because I put up foundations not put
[02:30:47] up a terrible amount about the book okay but you know I'm pushing out everything where we're
[02:30:53] gonna be okay different events so you're doing events and stuff for the book yeah promoting the
[02:30:58] book getting the book out there that's right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah speaking of a
[02:31:05] mission yes you're on a mission I want a mission well you know thank you so much for coming I mean
[02:31:13] it's it's awesome and I know we have some mutual friends you know that's which is cool yeah and
[02:31:20] Jamie who works national on front her husband Flynn who was awesome friends
[02:31:24] he was awesome friends with Brendan and Edna's Matterfac they have a son named Brendan
[02:31:30] yeah I mean you know Jamie and Flynn a lot of the stories that are in the book last
[02:31:36] stories that aren't in the book you know they were a part of them they were they were there you know
[02:31:40] I mean especially in in Amy section you know Flynn and Jamie were a really integral part of
[02:31:47] that time yeah well thank you for the three of you for writing this book for sharing the
[02:31:56] challenges that you've gone through the triumphs the it's this I know like I said that the
[02:32:02] stories in this book are gonna help they're gonna help people that are struggling when they're
[02:32:09] knocking at the door whenever that knock at the door is when it comes their way this book will
[02:32:13] well we'll help them get through it and even more important than that thank you for the service
[02:32:21] and sacrifice of your family that you guys have made it's obviously something that I will never
[02:32:27] forget and nor will are great nation ever forget that and thanks for what you're doing with the
[02:32:35] Travis Manion foundation to keep his legacy and his spirit and his character alive
[02:32:46] in order to make the world a better place what you are doing thank you well thanks for
[02:32:53] continuing to have the platform to share these stories you know it's important so we appreciate it
[02:32:59] it's an honor to be able to do it thank you for coming on thanks
[02:33:01] and with that Ryan Manion has left the building awesome conversation and some good advice
[02:33:17] actual pragmatic advice on what to do how to help yourself how to help yourself do those moments
[02:33:28] part of it was part of it was goals right goals with intention to keep yourself on the path
[02:33:41] going out for runs I thought that was interesting because every time how she would say how Tom
[02:33:47] or her dad would say yeah just go off or run or whatever we kind of say that about you just to a lot
[02:33:53] of time we do this go change it's true it's true I'm not going to just I mean we just talked about it
[02:34:01] where it's true but it's not like this that antidote right you know it is for some stuff you know
[02:34:08] I wish I would have thought of this it is a little bit more of an antidote than running in my opinion
[02:34:14] I think so too but just like it's like a couple measures of effectiveness because there's a
[02:34:22] mental aspect to it that completely covers all the mental aspects of running and then gives
[02:34:28] additional bonuses yeah and then I want to imagine obviously I'm not an expert but I would imagine
[02:34:34] that it would just be this very strong person a person you know some people they would maybe go
[02:34:37] live waste I remember when I was young when I'd be mad at something and keeping mine
[02:34:43] on coi mad at something so whatever I mean we are very very mild madness sessions
[02:34:50] I would want to go workout like going to workout and getting under the bench like that would
[02:34:57] help that would be very therapeutic right Annie's to run on child milk too back not
[02:35:03] you know before not anymore but I surround on the treble too same thing very therapeutic I
[02:35:08] thought the lifting was more therapeutic and then jujitsu is like magnitudes top of the therapeutic
[02:35:15] pyramid in terms of physical activity by far too like by far like more than one level like
[02:35:22] too low so you're definitely recommending jujitsu as well you're mentioning jujitsu yes for many
[02:35:26] reasons we've talked about and we're going to continue to talk about jujitsu but when you do
[02:35:30] jujitsu you will need a uniform you will again if you're doing ghee which we do recommend as always
[02:35:37] well gear you're gonna get you're gonna I have not been getting the question one geisha that
[02:35:41] get anymore I have not been getting out there the word is getting out and we're going to continue to
[02:35:44] put it out origin geese get one of our geese and by our geese I mean us all of us to group you know
[02:35:53] because because we are part of this thing we are part of this gang and we're all using
[02:36:00] we're all supporting we're all on board with the program origin made in America
[02:36:07] materials because sometimes people say they say made in America that took me to America
[02:36:12] assembled in America what they really mean yeah or you know made in America oh yeah son and
[02:36:18] manufactured grown oh we do the raw materials all Americans without compromise
[02:36:24] geese you can get geese you can get rash guards you can get t-shirts and you can get jeans
[02:36:31] that's right American general jeans made in America and babba boots oh that's right did you get
[02:36:39] yours yet how are you feeling I feel very good about here's a when are you wearing boots though
[02:36:44] I don't wear boots so all of a sudden you just have boots when are you when are you gonna wear
[02:36:49] they're good I don't know but here's the interesting thing in this goes we need to make
[02:36:53] slippers in order yeah it's a little bit lost yeah but like anything you know when you're excited
[02:36:58] about it you know I started I forgot that in the mainland you guys call them flip flops
[02:37:02] yeah you go flip flops yeah you know like when you get an exciting new piece of a peril
[02:37:10] you more you actively look for opportunities to wear them so you know these boots they're
[02:37:16] gonna get worn official I put them on of course but I'm an old actually wear them in the field
[02:37:21] whenever that means in my case you know in some capacity you're going to the grocery store
[02:37:26] but what's cool about the roots is they're they're not for wearing a grocery store I mean you
[02:37:33] can't but they're they're legit awesome work boots made in farming to make aesthetically
[02:37:44] please I don't like to wear easy wear pleasing but you like the way they look they have legitimate
[02:37:49] aesthetics to them more and more to heavy their functionality is good yes and they're not
[02:37:55] overboard aesthetically which would give them disapproved by me in fact as far as I'm concerned
[02:38:00] they are the perfect boot yeah actually when you think about it they are a boot yeah if you look
[02:38:04] in the dictionary boot you'd see a pair of origin boots like that's what you expect a pair of boots
[02:38:10] look like just why because that's how boots have been honed over centuries to get to a
[02:38:18] point where you go okay this is what a boot is yeah the most the most boot a boot can be is a boot
[02:38:25] for more of your mansion yeah you can get that also what supplements oh yeah now it's gonna say
[02:38:32] when you're on the path supplements they help they supplement the the path discourse yes 100%
[02:38:39] but yeah so it look I slipped off the train of well not the most train but
[02:38:44] because you're right on it all day all day but I had like any crap my wife made me an incredible
[02:38:52] dinner yesterday flank steak just all just good to go nice little Caesar salad these are like
[02:38:59] my two things but the flank steak was just perfect and I got done with it and I was like yeah that was
[02:39:05] so good and I was like about I want something so I just got a little I got a little scoop of
[02:39:11] half hitter yeah that's a whole deal yeah I guess so that's like a deal in a half is one scoop
[02:39:18] right or is two- one no one one scoop is it you can have a one scoop I mean you can have a two scoop
[02:39:21] hitter for sure oh yeah that's not really it's a little bit more what is one serving one scoop one
[02:39:27] one scoop right yeah yeah so milk what it is it's additional protein but you're not gonna know
[02:39:33] what you're gonna think is you just got an additional dessert yep so the joint warfare and
[02:39:40] krill oil this is important let's look off krill oil here's the thing right I didn't like forget
[02:39:45] it I ran out I forgot to get more before I ran out it's one of those situations again so and then
[02:39:51] it's weird how this is what Jade called it it's a type or typing induced tennis elbow okay I can
[02:40:03] that makes sense right beat on the computer whenever and I got tennis elbow over here wow
[02:40:08] right when I was you was maybe like a word stuff right yeah it was like fourish days after I got
[02:40:17] off the krill oil still joint warfare I'm still into that you know elbow cured by the way
[02:40:23] but yeah that's that's that's the situation I see a man as people will ask me which one
[02:40:29] A or B you know should I be on your warfare krill oil which one should it be and I'm like
[02:40:34] I hate answering that question because as far as I'm concerned it's both it's like peanut butter and jelly right
[02:40:39] you're not just gonna go peanut butter you're not just gonna go tell you going peanut butter and
[02:40:42] you're gonna go join warfare and super krill yeah that's 100% yeah and the it and I'm on like
[02:40:51] a pro the program where it's like lifting like hard in this face I'm a little bit more old school now
[02:40:56] like I'm not as young as you see me not a start technique right but oh your old not just old school but
[02:41:01] actually old you see so yeah so this it's saying a lot when I don't have the elbow thing anymore
[02:41:11] and that was a common thing when I was lifting with no joints supplements before you did your
[02:41:16] whole thing it was a big I just endured just endured everyone's in a while take like I'd be
[02:41:22] profanous something like that it got real bad not good for you but otherwise I just warm up more now
[02:41:27] no fact they're gone aside from my tennis elbow but anyway typing elbow type
[02:41:34] in these tennis those tennis I was not playing tennis unfortunately
[02:41:37] yeah um nonetheless yes so yes join warfare krill oil mok discipline
[02:41:44] so we got the we got the jockel pommur flavor which is a 50% iced tea 50% lemonade flavor
[02:41:51] it's the greatest thing ever it's so good oh yeah it's out it's out I said I said it's soon I told
[02:42:00] I told be little I'm like as soon because I had tried the you know we went through all the trials
[02:42:05] to get the right taste when we got the right taste and I was like run this make it and I said as
[02:42:10] soon as the factory gets done making it federal express it to my house yeah because it's taste so good
[02:42:19] better than trapezoid thunder you think all right like currently it's a pinion right yeah so my
[02:42:24] opinion is yes right now right now the the powdered discipline in jockel pommur flavor is my
[02:42:34] favorite flavor at this time I'm not saying I won't occasionally do a little lemon lime hitter
[02:42:40] order trapezoid thunder and don't forget that we also have the cans right this one go and that's
[02:42:45] what I say like the cans to me I like lemon lime fine but the trapex thunder is like there's
[02:42:52] no way I would ever under any circumstances grab the lemon lime one the trapex thunder is right
[02:42:57] interesting well I mean you know I think that might be from your upbringing it's possible you know
[02:43:02] yeah it's very tropical yeah I'm sure then you need to be like over there and then you got
[02:43:11] jocquawaiti as well organic why it's the only organic consumable that is guaranteed to give you
[02:43:21] an 8000 pound deadlift so yeah after it's typically proven by the way double blind last
[02:43:26] simplicity also if you or when you get your copy of the knock at the door by Ryan Manion
[02:43:34] Heather Kelly and Amy Looney heffron in no worries I got I got you you don't have to go searching
[02:43:42] even though I'm sure that'd be easy to find regardless but put it on jockelpottcast.com under the
[02:43:47] book section and here's another good way to support the podcast if you want to click there click
[02:43:55] through there it'll take you to Amazon on that Amazon landing the where it lands just save that to
[02:44:00] your favorites if you haven't if you've done this before August first sorry we got to do it again
[02:44:08] for various reasons that we're not going to go into but nonetheless if you do that then shopping
[02:44:12] dude Amazon shopping through that link that's a good way to support this podcast very good way
[02:44:17] if you want but yeah so yeah it'll be on there and yeah get it there so you begin not only
[02:44:25] support yourself but you know get the get the whole book so you can get all the details and whatnot also
[02:44:32] jockel is a store it's called jockel store anyway that's where you can see the guy that wrote on
[02:44:39] Twitter his wife said what do you want for your birthday and he said jockel is a store it's called
[02:44:45] jockel store boom there you go you just as I'll she need you to know because everything that you
[02:44:51] can get there he's down with yeah he's like just order something from there you can order a
[02:44:55] rash guard you can order a t-shirt you can order a trucker's hat I guess if you are feeling like
[02:45:02] maybe you don't feel as cool as you want to be you can order a flex fit hat oh yeah or lightweight
[02:45:10] hoodie yeah you know ready admit it when you see people wearing the lightweight hoodie it's
[02:45:16] good you're kind of getting one over right now one over but like it's weird you're saying
[02:45:21] and I'll say probably not right now little bit though it looks good this like functional functional
[02:45:27] lightly functional and as slightly aesthetic yeah if you want to represent while you're on the path
[02:45:33] jockel store.com this way you get the stuff you can also subscribe to this podcast which is a good
[02:45:38] idea if you haven't yet which echo doesn't think you have maybe that's because echo is the type of
[02:45:45] person that is listening to something for years and doesn't hit subscribe and so he doesn't think you
[02:45:50] well you can be like echo and hit subscribe now or maybe if you're like me you already hit subscribe
[02:45:57] so we know what's interesting about that this is obviously not the first time you said that echo
[02:46:02] doesn't think that you subscribe because that's technically that's not true that's not how it
[02:46:06] went down I was not aware that I believe my own property yeah exactly so if I mean you
[02:46:13] probably just miss remembered it and then that again I could be wrong right now too and maybe I
[02:46:17] missed dinner remember correctly but what it was was I was saying you don't have to tell people to
[02:46:24] subscribe because they're either going to subscribe if they want to or not you don't be like hey
[02:46:29] subscribe and then be like oh my gosh I totally forgot to subscribe it's kind of like no
[02:46:32] obviously that that was my contention anyway so that's more accurate but additionally
[02:46:38] today you put a lot of things on me didn't well do you say that I called it the gram that whole
[02:46:46] line of the gram whatever you say echo this echo that was interesting you say I'm not taking ownership
[02:46:52] of things oh yeah that's true too yeah which is interesting yeah but I'm just I'm actually
[02:46:58] it's nothing to take ownership I'm not blaming you for calling it the gram I'm just stating that you
[02:47:03] call it the gram even though I don't yeah it's almost time for me to read some reviews
[02:47:14] allowed again done that before but yeah so leave some reviews if you leave a review that's
[02:47:20] shockingly creative and good then you know maybe I'll just retweet it or something or read it
[02:47:28] I also want to do the I also want to read YouTube comments allowed yeah we should do like what there's
[02:47:34] a show like I don't know I forget there's a bunch of shows like that yeah mean tweet me
[02:47:39] yeah yeah yeah you should do that with the with the and not necessarily mean ones because
[02:47:44] mean ones people can be lame will you I'm not gonna be like this guy said that yeah you know
[02:47:50] here's a people cry during mean tweets or I've seen some people crying when they're reading
[02:47:54] mean tweets like really crying yeah yeah like legitimate we like like you know like to show the
[02:47:59] power of internet bullying or whatever okay so they're not gonna get me there yeah but oh well I
[02:48:05] would I would wonder is obviously yeah you're not gonna start crying but if you show yeah I'm gonna
[02:48:10] read it then people would be like oh let me make a mean one and then sometimes if someone's intention
[02:48:16] I have to say if you're if you're gonna try and be mean to me through comments yeah
[02:48:21] because you're not having negative impact on me I hate to break the news to you you're not
[02:48:25] executing well because I don't care yeah actually you want to write something cool
[02:48:30] and you want me to see it and be like I'll awesome then that didn't you're being effective yes
[02:48:36] no but this though is what you're saying what it like if you if we decide for you to read
[02:48:42] mean comments uh people someone might be motivated to be like oh let me see if I can get a zinger
[02:48:52] in there and then it's just sort of whack because for a mean comment to be funny it has to be funny
[02:48:58] first then mean said here's the here's the really here's the really kind of just
[02:49:04] thing that shuts that idea down to to to read a mean like a truly mean comment it's not even
[02:49:11] it's not funny you know what I mean you make a funny comment right like the person that got a picture
[02:49:16] of me and it says uh feeling cute might like like hey man that's just funny you know full
[02:49:25] credit to that one because it's a model that was evil echo Charles that picked picture that
[02:49:30] oh yeah evil echo Charles posted that but yes so that picture was taken about three seconds
[02:49:37] before because this photographer this is a legit photographer was taking pictures of me
[02:49:42] and they're like photoshoot yeah you were muddling yeah no they were taking pictures of me
[02:49:47] oh well so anyways they're like I'm like just they're like we'll just walk around and act natural
[02:49:52] and so I'm like walk around and I'm like looking I'm looking in this in this pit right where that
[02:49:58] fences and then I I look at them and then and then they're like taking too much pictures and then they
[02:50:04] started giving me direction yeah that's modeling they're like they're like wait can you look
[02:50:08] over there and then look at us real quick give me that and then I was like no I'm not doing that this
[02:50:15] is this is not me and I'm not doing it but that picture was the one picture that they got right
[02:50:19] before they started giving me directions and I and I told them negative not happening but even that
[02:50:24] picture looks lame man that's debatable you know maybe you know it looked cute might be lead it later
[02:50:30] hey bottom line leave some reviews you know we have fun with them we appreciate cool reviews so
[02:50:35] that'd be awesome and don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast which I know I owe more of
[02:50:41] this is starting to sound really bad yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe we should release that one in the
[02:50:46] bank sure okay um yeah so Warrior Kid podcast and don't forget about the Warrior Kid soap
[02:50:52] from Irish Oaks Ranch.com where young Aiden is making soap so that you and we all can stay
[02:51:00] clean. Speaking of course also YouTube channel we have YouTube channel video version of this podcast
[02:51:05] and excerpts a lot excerpts on there let's get a little you know chopped them here's the thing
[02:51:11] about YouTube is what I heard when I learned people now people now are going to YouTube more for a
[02:51:19] little bit longer videos than before. Remember the trend was like oh yeah I'm in it and a half it's
[02:51:24] like you got to keep their attention on the internet and stuff that was kind of the thing right
[02:51:27] apparently the new emergent status is the people we like the longer forms stuff we're
[02:51:37] beginning to let you're just catching up with that over there yes isn't this like we've been
[02:51:42] making three hour podcast for years but remember we have a lot of podcasts well no no okay
[02:51:49] three-hour podcasts that's audio right we're talking audio long for okay but yes there is video
[02:51:54] you have we have a five hour and twenty five minute long podcast which on par now yes but as far as
[02:52:00] the trend goes people like it generally speaking more also people outside of the people that
[02:52:05] listen to this podcast are starting to like okay just yeah in general and so what's your point
[02:52:10] of the details of this so somebody excerpts are kind of like five minutes eight minutes
[02:52:15] so that's 12 minutes right right so the times that I was telling you can you please make an
[02:52:19] excerpt that's not 27 minutes long you're saying I was wrong well I'm not to split hairs
[02:52:27] I'm not saying you were wrong then I'm saying that no longer applies as far as like what you might want
[02:52:34] nonetheless there's some excerpts on there well for YouTube channel if you want something shorter than that
[02:52:40] you can go to psychological warfare which is available on iTunes and all MP3 platforms which is me
[02:52:46] giving some short maybe minute minute and a half maybe two minutes at the longest audio advice of
[02:52:53] how to stay on the path and it's not just advice it's actual mechanical tool that will keep you on the
[02:52:59] path very very effective too it's like you're you could go to a therapist to try and get you to
[02:53:07] not eat a donut or you could just press play yeah but there's a donut here the sugar coated lies
[02:53:13] uh flip side canvas if you need some visual representation of the path you're gonna flip side canvas
[02:53:21] dot com owned by my brother Dakota Meyer you can get this one it was freedom you can get good
[02:53:29] you can get whatever you want actually let Dakota know what you think would be cool I know make it
[02:53:35] flip side canvas dot com the Dakota might have a helicopter yes you don't did you say that you did
[02:53:41] right in that you're not yeah okay yeah I was gonna make a video of like myself where you
[02:53:50] and be like hey like Dakota I see Dakota Myers helicopter it's like so cool so we decided to get
[02:53:57] our own and then we'd get it and then we'd either like or you get in there and you take off and
[02:54:03] then you'd like crash it or something or before you get any catches on fire something you know kind of like
[02:54:08] you want to copy people but you're you know you failed at it or something so are we having a meeting right
[02:54:13] now about creative ideas about it is that was coming on right actually technically I wanted to say
[02:54:17] it out loud just to see your reaction to see where I need to spin this idea you know
[02:54:22] why don't you spin that idea into the dirt right along with the helicopter all right so that's
[02:54:28] that also we got some books obviously the book the knock at the door right here Ryan Manion
[02:54:36] Heather Kelly Amy Luna Haffronen and get the book comes out uh November 5th it's a
[02:54:46] but order right now it'll ship and you'll get it early also leadership strategy and tactics
[02:54:52] feel manual just got approval from the department of the defense the department of defense
[02:54:58] which took a long time but they just gave me approval to publish it made it through the
[02:55:04] declassification process so we're good to go pre-order that now it will be out in January
[02:55:12] and believe me when I tell you you want that first edition and we got the warrior kid books there's
[02:55:20] three of them where there's a will marks mission and their first one way the warrior kid get those
[02:55:25] don't forget about Mikey in the dragons for every kid that you know between the ages of zero
[02:55:31] and one hundred get a Mikey in the dragons you mean people told me they cried when they read the
[02:55:38] letter yes or no I don't know how many but that does the surprise me because remember I think I
[02:55:43] told I told you this I think I told you yeah when I played the video that part for some reason when
[02:55:49] you you're like two mice on and it's you know and especially if you have kids you're like oh man
[02:55:56] you know you're sending your kid off into the crazy world you know kind of on his own it's like
[02:56:01] man it kind of like yeah I dig it man I understand so get that book for everybody that you know
[02:56:06] don't forget about the discipline equals freedom field manual if you want to know my personal operating
[02:56:12] system for mental and physical health that's it the discipline equals freedom field manual
[02:56:19] the audio version is available as an MP3 wherever you get your MP3's and also we have extreme ownership
[02:56:26] and the dichotomy leadership which I wrote with my brother life babin which you can take the lessons
[02:56:33] that we learned in combat and apply them to your business your family and your life
[02:56:42] echelon front that's my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership
[02:56:48] no matter what problems you have in an organization the problems guaranteed our leadership problems
[02:56:52] go to echelon front dot com for details and if you want to get someone from echelon front
[02:57:00] to come and speak to your organization don't go through a speakers agency just go to echelon front
[02:57:09] dot com that's what you do otherwise there's a middle man and the middle man will make things
[02:57:14] annoying so just go to echelon front dot com we have e f on line where you can
[02:57:24] you can receive leadership training without us actually being there we had a I was working with a
[02:57:30] company when I got done talking with his executives he came up to me and said I want you to talk
[02:57:34] talk to and teach and train every employee have at this company I said cool how many employees do you have
[02:57:39] 167 thousand I think was the number there was one that was 87 thousand the biggest one was
[02:57:46] 167 anyways global company and I said okay let me get back to you on that so anyways how do you
[02:57:53] do that obviously we can't clone our instructors at echelon front but we can put them on interactive
[02:58:00] high speed online leadership training that's what e f on line dot com is so check that out
[02:58:06] if you do want to come and see us live go to extremo ownership dot com to find out when we do our
[02:58:13] leadership training event which is called the mustard the next one is in December fourth and fifth
[02:58:18] in Sydney Australia we will not be going back to Sydney Australia for a long long long long time
[02:58:24] we're not going to Brisbane we're not going to Perth we're going to Sydney if you're an Australia
[02:58:29] come see us in Sydney I apologize but that's just we're not a rock and roll band we're not on tour
[02:58:35] we actually have a bunch of work to do outside of the mustard so we can't do mustard's all the time so
[02:58:43] yeah if you want to come go to extremo ownership dot com check for the dates for America
[02:58:48] in 2020 we'll be coming out soon if you want to come and check us out go to extremo ownership dot com
[02:58:53] and e f over watch right now we are taking trained leadership experts from special operations
[02:59:04] from combat aviation and we are placing them into companies that need leadership inside their
[02:59:10] organization the type of leadership that understands the principles of combat leadership that we
[02:59:17] teach inside of our company echelon front the the things the principles from
[02:59:24] extremo ownership the principles from the dichotomy leadership so go to e f over watch dot com if
[02:59:30] you need leaders in your company and if you want to continue to communicate with us
[02:59:38] we're on the interwebs we're on twitter instagram and we are on on that old facebook
[02:59:50] for the Travis minion foundation they are on the interwebs at Travis minion dot org they're on twitter
[02:59:57] at tm foundation instagram is Travis minion foundation and facebook is at Travis minion foundation
[03:00:05] they also have a youtube channel which is called Travis minion foundation there's a videos uh there's
[03:00:10] I guess there's two of me on there I know I did one but there's two there's a bunch of other really
[03:00:15] great stories on there to hear and to watch and if you want to talk to well us echo is at echo
[03:00:23] Charles and I am at jockel willic and thanks once again to Ryan Mannon for everything that she
[03:00:30] is done and is doing and to her co-authors and her friends Amy looney haphorman and Heather Kelly
[03:00:37] for writing this book the knock on the door which I know is going to help so many people and of course
[03:00:45] thank you to the true heroes that they knew and they love Travis minion Brendan mooney
[03:00:56] Robert Kelly who willingly went forward into harm's way and laid down their lives on the
[03:01:05] altar of freedom giving us this precious gift that we must never take for granted we must
[03:01:17] have to make them proud follow their example and be grateful for their service and sacrifice
[03:01:24] just as we must be thankful to all of our armed services for what they do every day
[03:01:32] and the efforts they put forth to protect our freedoms and to our police and law enforcement
[03:01:39] and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border
[03:01:44] patrol and secret service and all the first responders you also make sacrifices every day to protect
[03:01:51] our way of life so thank you to you all as well and to everyone else out there
[03:01:58] just remember the life is short and life is precious and it will come to an end
[03:02:09] you are not guaranteed tomorrow so don't wait don't wait to do the things you want to do
[03:02:20] and don't wait to become the person you want to become don't wait go out there today and get after it
[03:02:30] until next time this is echo and jockel out