Jocko Podcast 20 - with Echo Charles | Parenting | Crossfit | BJJ | Nature VS Nurture

2016-04-27T06:12:39Z

Join the conversation on Twitter: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 16:55 - Mao Tse Tung, "On Guerrilla Warfare" (translated by Samuel B. Griffeth) 1:01:40 - Internet/Onnit stuff 1:04:18 - Memorable moments in Jiu Jitsu? 1:26:44 - How to learn humility and also gain self confidence. 1:37:20 - Decentralized command in Parenting 1:49:39 - Thoughts on CrossFit 1:58:30 - Tips on indirect communication 2:07:09 - What's more important for success? Nature or Nurture?

AI summary of episode

So now, I mean, I literally deans main training partner for something like 12 years at this point, and like you said, this is when Dean's just dominating, and so I'm going to a seal conference on this remote location, and I look at the roster of who's gonna be there, and he's gonna be there, and I went to a whole depot, and I bought like a 30 by 30 canvas, canvas, you know, tarp to put on the ground, so I could train with him, and I send him an email, I was like, hey, I see the trick on the conference, let's train with him, he's like, absolutely, look forward to it, I'm like, I do too, and so we get out there, we fly to this place, we meet up, and I say, let's train, and we get on the mat, and I'm just, you know, like, a thousand times better than I was, and again, at this point, I've been training with Dean, I gone through a whole competition phase, so anyways, and he's been working, and he's been deploying, and he's been being a seal, so I mean, I just trained more, and I was just all over him, and so I submitted him a bunch of times, and then, and then, you know, he kind of said, like, can you just show me some stuff? So what I'm going to do is like anything I post is going to be very relevant or even like, you know, like a, like a, you know, how we record before we start recording, I might post some deleted scenes. And you know, I said, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, nobody's well, that person might be better than me. So again, it made it made fitness, what I'm, quote, fitness be popular, you know, this is cool thing, you know, and a community, you know, in a way that I don't, it's, I mean, like you said, there's, there was already some of these, but they're like, okay, Just go out of their way and be like, I'm the greatest, you know, but if someone's like, hey, you know, honest question, do you think you're the greatest and they really think they are the greatest in their experience or whatever, they're going to say the honest thing. If everyone's thinking like that, or if they're even vocal about it, you know, you can't help the kind of maybe feel that and be like, maybe that's kind of the thing, you know? Usually happens with a guy who's close to you, you kind of starts with you, or maybe kind of you meet him, and you're just, you get start off the relationship for lack of a better than you start off at a similar level, you know, and then you kind of develop this little competition, like, the guy, you know. So it brought fitness into this more of an activity to do rather than, okay, you got to do this short, you got to work out, it made it into like an activity, like boom, and not just, okay, I'm going to go do some easy stuff with, you know, the girls on the weekend. I mean, a purple belt, you know, I'll roll with purple belt in our gym and they're competitive, you know, most of the blue belts, unless there's studs are, you know, you're not going to be really threatened with anything even positionally. yeah, you know what I'm still training, still training, and any actually, completely, will compete in the worlds, and did well in worlds, as a purple belt, I think you actually won worlds, as a purple belt, and eventually got a spround belt, and so finally, like 10 years later. And they're still trying to fill that little psychological cup and it's manifesting in this other way, you know, through business through, you know, being maybe seal Gigi to champion, you know, whatever it may be, but typically, and I'm saying every single time, I'm sure there's exceptions or maybe there's not exceptions. But the reason there's an article like that is because it's a small part of that, in all of us that wants to say, you know, hey, you know, maybe with your close friends, you'd be like, hey, did you get them in Don't, you know, don't say, hey, no jumping on the bed one day and then the next day you don't feel lazy or tired or whatever and you don't say, hey, don't jump on the bed because they're going to be like, oh, well, is this today I can jump on the bed or is it not I want to jump on the bed when you're not looking guess what I'm going to be doing. I think it, you know, now people realize, you know, for a while they kind of held the line of like, no, all you need to do is what it says to do on the CrossFit workout of the day. Confidence, like, you know, confidence saying, I know I can, I know I could win this match or You know, I mean, of course, you know, mistakes if you go too extreme, but because really success or I don't say success, but really driven people people who are just, you know how you get somebody who's just driven. But when you saw beef jerky as someone who's into protein, you know, when you're, I don't know, when I turn like 15, 16, started like in beef jerky was Dang that is dope. Like, oh, but I actually, I think pretty much only with you, where it's not embarrassing, it's just like when I think back on it, I'm like, man, I should have been maybe mentally tougher. It's, it's for real, you know, like, a hard workout, and to put you through, you get in a group and across with situation, and they're going to be yelling supporting you, and it's way easier to stick with a workout program when you have people supporting you. And it doesn't surprise me because I know what motivates people and I know how to, I know the principles that work. but, and then one time years later, I saw him, and we were in, we were in DC, we actually at the Pentagon, hadn't seen him for a year or two, and I see him, and I'm in my, my khaki uniform, you know, with short sleeves, and he's like, oh, you look in skin, you lose weight, and I look back and when you said, I'm just trying to get down to your weight class, and make it more even next time. And I was like, all right, I said it all try and something like, man, he's like, no, no, you're getting promoted. No, and I think it's also good for me, diving into this other book here, you know, know where you're going to gain knowledge from, or confirm knowledge. You know, you know, some people they're like, hey, I'm not cocky. So I think that as a base, you know, like if someone just randomly says, you know, hey, I never worked out before what should I do. Yeah, I mean, unless my point is that's why I don't want to talk to people about parenting because I don't know, I don't feel like an authority on it, that should be giving instruction. So like, the point is it's so ambiguous, you know, you think you've been like, what is a successful parent? So that's that aha moment that I was like, okay, this jujitsu thing is way more, because I was bigger than him, I knew I could lift more and I'm going to wait to him and know that at this point.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 20 with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:09] Around 8pm on September 21st, 2007 the authorities notified me that I should go for a
[00:00:17] mind reeducation talk.
[00:00:20] I found there were some unusual things happening at this time.
[00:00:24] The secret police who used to follow me very closely kept the further distance.
[00:00:29] I was walking down the street one day and then when I turned a corner about six or seven
[00:00:35] strangers started walking towards me.
[00:00:38] I suddenly felt a strong blow to the back of my neck and fell face down on the ground.
[00:00:42] Someone yanked my hair and a black hood was pulled over my head immediately.
[00:00:48] I was brought to a vehicle and was put in it.
[00:00:51] I couldn't see but it seemed that I had two benches with a space in the middle.
[00:00:57] I was putting the space in the middle of the floor.
[00:01:00] My right cheek was on the ground.
[00:01:02] All of a sudden a boot was put on my face holding me down.
[00:01:06] Many hands started searching all over me.
[00:01:08] My belt was pulled off and used to tie my hands behind my back.
[00:01:13] At least four people put their feet on me holding me down.
[00:01:18] About 40 minutes later I was dragged out of the car.
[00:01:21] My pants were falling down around my knees and I was dragged into a room.
[00:01:26] No one said anything at all to me until that time.
[00:01:31] The hood was pulled off my head at this time.
[00:01:35] Immediately men began cursing and hitting me.
[00:01:39] One of the men said, your date of death has come today.
[00:01:44] Brothers let's give him a brutal lesson today.
[00:01:47] Beat him to death.
[00:01:51] Then four men with electric shock prods began beating my head and all over my body.
[00:01:58] Nothing but noise and the beating of my anxious breathing could be heard.
[00:02:03] I was beaten so severely that my whole body began uncontrollably shaking.
[00:02:09] Don't pretend to do that.
[00:02:11] I was shattered out by a guy who my later learned was named Wang.
[00:02:17] Then a very strong and tall man grabbed my hair and pulled me up off the ground.
[00:02:21] Then Wang began beating me on the face terribly.
[00:02:25] You are not worthy to wear clothes.
[00:02:27] Pull off all of his clothes.
[00:02:30] All of my clothes were pulled off and I was totally naked.
[00:02:34] Wang yelled again and someone kicked me in the back of my legs and I collapsed to the floor.
[00:02:39] The big guy continued to pull my hair and forced me to lift my head to see Wang.
[00:02:45] At this time I could see that there were five people in the room.
[00:02:48] Four of the men were holding electric prods and one was holding my belt.
[00:02:54] You listen gal.
[00:02:55] Today your uncle's want nothing but to make your life worse than death.
[00:03:02] While Wang was saying this the electric shock prods were put on my face and upper body
[00:03:06] shocking me.
[00:03:08] Wang then said, come on guys, deliver the second course.
[00:03:13] Then the electric shock betan was put all over me and my full body, my heart, lungs
[00:03:19] and muscles began jumping under my skin uncontrollably.
[00:03:24] I was writhing around on the ground and pain trying to crawl away.
[00:03:29] Wang then shocked me in my genitals.
[00:03:32] My begging them to stop only returned laughing and more unbelievable torture.
[00:03:38] Wang then used the electric shock betan three more times on my genitals while shouting loudly.
[00:03:43] After a few hours of this I had no energy to even beg, let alone try to escape.
[00:03:52] But my mind was still clear.
[00:03:55] It seems that the tortures themselves were also tired.
[00:03:59] Before the dawn came, three of them left the room.
[00:04:03] We will come back later to give them the next course Wang said.
[00:04:08] I asked how can you face the beating of Chinese and use mafia tactics on Chinese taxpayers?
[00:04:16] You are an object to be beaten.
[00:04:18] You know that in your heart better than most.
[00:04:21] Taxpayers count for nothing in China.
[00:04:23] Don't talk about this term taxpayers.
[00:04:26] While he was saying this someone else also entered the room.
[00:04:31] I recognize the voice to be wang's.
[00:04:33] Don't talk to him with your mouth.
[00:04:35] Even the real thing, your uncles have prepared 12 courses.
[00:04:40] We only finished three last night.
[00:04:42] Your chief uncle doesn't like to talk and so following you will see that you will have
[00:04:48] to eat your own shit and drink your own piss.
[00:04:52] Don't you talk about torture by the Communist Party yet because we will give you a comprehensive
[00:04:57] lesson now.
[00:04:59] I am not afraid of you if you continue to write.
[00:05:02] We can torture you to death without your body being found.
[00:05:09] In the following hours of torture I passed out several times because of lack of water and
[00:05:13] food and heavy sweating.
[00:05:15] I was lying down on the cold floor naked.
[00:05:20] I felt several times someone would come and open my eyes and shine a flashlight into them
[00:05:25] to see if I was still alive.
[00:05:28] When I would come to I smelled the strong odor of stinky urine.
[00:05:33] My face knows and hair were filled with the smell.
[00:05:37] Obviously but I don't know when someone urinated on my face and head.
[00:05:42] This torture continued until around noon of the third day.
[00:05:47] I don't know where I got the strength to endure but somehow I struggled to get away from
[00:05:52] their grasp and began to beat my head on the table.
[00:05:55] I was shouting the names of my two children and trying to kill myself.
[00:06:04] But my attempt did not succeed.
[00:06:07] I thank Almighty God for this.
[00:06:09] It was him who rescued me.
[00:06:12] I truly felt God dragged me back from that state and gave me my life.
[00:06:17] My eyes were full of bleeding through, though because of my head banging.
[00:06:24] I fell on the ground immediately three people sat on my body.
[00:06:29] One was on my face.
[00:06:30] They were laughing.
[00:06:32] They said I used my death to try and scare them.
[00:06:36] They said they have just seen this too many times.
[00:06:39] They then continued the torture again until that night.
[00:06:44] I could not see anything with my eyes anymore.
[00:06:49] Every day while I was being held the experience of eating was unusual.
[00:06:55] Whenever I was at the point of starving they would bring up mantle which was steamed bread
[00:06:59] and offered to me.
[00:07:02] If I would sing one of the three famous revolutionary communist party songs I could have
[00:07:07] some bread.
[00:07:09] My deepest desire was that I wanted to live until that was no longer possible.
[00:07:15] My death would be torturous for my wife and children, but at the same time I didn't
[00:07:20] want to dirty my soul.
[00:07:23] But in that environment human dignity has no strength.
[00:07:29] If you don't sing these songs you will continue to be starved and they will continue
[00:07:34] to torture you.
[00:07:37] So I sang.
[00:07:41] And they used the same tactic though, pressuring me to write articles attacking, following
[00:07:45] Goon.
[00:07:46] I didn't do it.
[00:07:48] But I compromised by writing my statement saying that the government didn't kidnap me
[00:07:53] and torture me and that they treated me and my family well.
[00:07:58] I did sign that document.
[00:08:03] During these more than 50 days more horrible evils were committed than I told here.
[00:08:09] Those evils were not even worthy of any historical records by any human governments.
[00:08:16] But those records will further enable us to see clearly that how much further the leaders
[00:08:20] of CCP are willing to go and its evil crime against humanity in order to protect its
[00:08:26] illegal monopoly power.
[00:08:30] Those evils are so dirty and disgusting that I don't want to mention it at this time
[00:08:34] and perhaps will never mention it in the future.
[00:08:39] Every time when I was tortured I was always repeatedly threatened that if I spelled out
[00:08:44] later what had happened to me I would be tortured again.
[00:08:49] But this time I was told this time it will happen in front of your wife and children.
[00:08:57] The tall strong man that pulled my hair repeated this over and over during the seven
[00:09:02] days I was tortured.
[00:09:05] Your death is sure if you share this with the outside world.
[00:09:10] This was repeated many times.
[00:09:14] These brutal violent acts are not right.
[00:09:18] Those that did it themselves knew this clearly in their hearts.
[00:09:27] So let's say a note from a guy named Gauzi Cheng who is a Christian lawyer in China that defended
[00:09:43] Christians and became an enemy of the Chinese Communist State.
[00:09:48] And again this is 2007 that this occurred.
[00:09:55] The reason I started off with that tonight is because we're going to delve into some
[00:10:02] material that comes from Mount Satan who is one of the most famous and powerful communist
[00:10:13] leaders ever.
[00:10:17] And the reason that I got interested in this is if you remember or if you went and read
[00:10:22] about face by David Hackworth he talks about making all of his subordinates read,
[00:10:29] Mount Satan's little red book.
[00:10:33] And when I heard Hack say to read that I read many years ago.
[00:10:40] And although that's an interesting read it actually led me to a better read.
[00:10:47] Also by Mount Satan I got more out of.
[00:10:50] And the version that I got was originally put out by the Marine Corps.
[00:10:56] And it analyzed and translated Mount Satan's book, Yuchichan, which means Gorilla Warfare.
[00:11:10] And I wanted the reason I wanted to start off with this shocking tale of torture.
[00:11:17] This is because I wanted to make sure that I highlighted Mao's legacy.
[00:11:23] This is a guy that's responsible for millions upon millions of deaths from disease,
[00:11:30] in starvation and systematic executions.
[00:11:37] And deaths in these labor camps called reform through labor.
[00:11:43] So oh you're not quite fitting in, cool, will work you to death.
[00:11:49] And the estimates for the number of people that died as a result of him being in power
[00:11:55] is between 40 and 80 million.
[00:12:02] He's at the top of the list.
[00:12:03] He's above Stalin.
[00:12:04] He's above Hitler.
[00:12:07] And the mist treatment of people continues.
[00:12:10] You know, Gao Zi Cheng who I just read, who started it off tonight.
[00:12:14] But even now, I just saw a news story about Ding Kumar, who's the wife of a Reverend
[00:12:23] who in April this year, this month, stood in front of a bulldozer to stop the state-ordered
[00:12:32] demolition of a church.
[00:12:34] And they just pushed her into the ditch buried her alive.
[00:12:38] And this is still happening.
[00:12:41] And so I want to make it perfectly clear that there is massive amounts of evil and
[00:12:46] depression racked up in Mao's say tone.
[00:12:52] Now what is interesting?
[00:12:57] And this is probably why hack, in fact, it is why hack worth read this and had his people
[00:13:07] read it is because the military and leadership theories that he espouses, they actually
[00:13:15] align with my own principles of leadership, which is crazy.
[00:13:19] And it's shocking because I mean, this guy is literally one of the founders of the Chinese
[00:13:25] Communist Party.
[00:13:27] And obviously, I may believe her in democracy and specifically, I'm a believer in individual
[00:13:40] freedom of human beings.
[00:13:46] But like I said, interesting, you'll see that many of the leadership principles that
[00:13:50] I talk about and that I believe in Mao utilized them.
[00:13:56] And I talked them when he was trying to run military and insurgent operations.
[00:14:04] And it doesn't surprise me because I know what motivates people and I know how to, I know
[00:14:10] the principles that work.
[00:14:13] But what is surprising is that he didn't take these leadership principles and lead a nation
[00:14:20] like that.
[00:14:23] So you're going to see that very clearly when we go through this.
[00:14:29] In your part of it's probably has to do with the famous quote from Lord Achtin, which is
[00:14:41] power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
[00:14:48] So it's either that, either he got corrupted or maybe he never realized that the way
[00:14:55] you lead and combat is the way you need to lead in life and in business the way you lead
[00:15:01] people.
[00:15:06] Unfortunately, he never realized that.
[00:15:10] So to start this off, this is an introduction and analysis.
[00:15:16] This starts off with an introduction and analysis of Mao Saitong and his principles that
[00:15:21] was done by a guy named Brigadier General Samuel B. Griffith, United States Marine Corps.
[00:15:30] And to put a little background on General Griffith, he served as the executive officer and
[00:15:36] later commander of the first Marine Raiders Battalion on Guadalcanal.
[00:15:44] He served as the executive officer of the first Raider Regiment in operations on New Georgia.
[00:15:52] He received the Navy Cross, which is only second to the Medal of Honor on Guadalcanal.
[00:15:58] September 1942 for extreme heroism and courageous devotion to duty during the fighting near
[00:16:04] the mountainous river.
[00:16:11] In this action, Griffith suffered wounds for which he was awarded the Purple Heart for his
[00:16:16] exploits in July in New Georgia.
[00:16:18] He was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross.
[00:16:22] So this guy is highly decorated.
[00:16:23] Here's the bonus here.
[00:16:25] He spoke Chinese and he was stationed in China several times.
[00:16:30] So this is the guy that actually translated this book from Chinese to English.
[00:16:36] So I don't think you could possibly come up with a better person to base this translation
[00:16:42] off of then general Griffith.
[00:16:46] Pretty awesome to have that kind of person and still be able to look at his work.
[00:16:56] So let's get into this book here.
[00:16:58] I'll say Tong on guerrilla warfare translated by Samuel B. Griffith.
[00:17:06] Malse Tong, the man who was to don the mantle of Lenin was born in Hunan province in
[00:17:13] Central China in 1893.
[00:17:17] His father, in a industrious farmer, had managed to acquire several acres and with this
[00:17:22] land to the status of a middle peasant.
[00:17:26] He was a strict disciplinarian and Malse youth was not a happy one.
[00:17:33] The boy was in constant conflict with his father but found an ally in his mother whose
[00:17:40] indirect tactics as he once described her methods of coping with her husband appealed
[00:17:47] to him.
[00:17:49] So we already get a little flag here.
[00:17:52] You know, here was his guy and he looked at the way his mom dealt with his dad and
[00:17:55] she used these indirect tactics.
[00:17:58] I talk about that all the time and you're going to see that he uses these indirect
[00:18:02] tactics in a military way as well.
[00:18:05] Shortly after grad back to the book, shortly after graduating from normal school in 1917,
[00:18:10] Malice, deposition as assistant in the peaking university library.
[00:18:16] Here he associated himself with Marxist study groups.
[00:18:24] Here he discovered Lenin, Redis Essays, poured over Trotsky's explosive speeches and began
[00:18:30] to study Marx and Engels.
[00:18:34] By 1920, Mal was a convinced communist and a man who had discovered his mission to create
[00:18:43] a new China according to the doctrine of Marx and Lenin.
[00:18:49] And the CCP was organized in Shanghai in 1921, Mal joined.
[00:18:58] So that sort of where it begins and now skipping through some of the evolution and getting
[00:19:06] right into strategy, tactics and logistics in revolutionary war.
[00:19:12] Here's one of his quotes.
[00:19:13] The first law of war is to preserve ourselves and destroy the enemy.
[00:19:20] Very simple.
[00:19:21] I talk about simplicity all the time.
[00:19:23] We wrote about it in the book.
[00:19:24] Is there any more simple principle to wage war other than the first law of war to preserve
[00:19:33] ourselves and destroy the enemy?
[00:19:40] Mal has never claimed that guerilla action alone is decisive in a struggle for political control
[00:19:45] of the state.
[00:19:47] But only that it is a possible, natural, and necessary development in an agrarian-based revolutionary
[00:19:54] war.
[00:19:55] So he doesn't think it can do everything, but he knows it pays a very critical part.
[00:20:02] Christians rarely compromise.
[00:20:12] Compromises are made only to further the strategic design.
[00:20:19] I'll read that again.
[00:20:21] Compromises are made only to further the strategic design.
[00:20:22] Negotiation then is undertaken for the dual purpose of gaining time to buttress a position
[00:20:28] and to wear down, frustrate, and harass an opponent.
[00:20:34] So this is again.
[00:20:36] We talked about this on the last podcast.
[00:20:38] It's not about being right.
[00:20:39] You make those compromises because you're trying to win the war, not the battle.
[00:20:48] Intelligence is the decisive factor in planning guerilla operations.
[00:20:51] Where is the enemy?
[00:20:52] In what strength?
[00:20:53] What does he propose to do?
[00:20:55] What is the state of his equipment as supply is morale?
[00:20:59] Are his leaders intelligent bold and imaginative or stupid?
[00:21:03] Are his troops tough, efficient, and well-disciplined, or poorly trained and soft?
[00:21:09] Guerilla's expect the members of their intelligence service to provide the answers to these
[00:21:13] and dozens of more detailed questions.
[00:21:17] Guerilla intelligence nets are tightly organized and pervasive.
[00:21:22] In a guerilla area, every person without exception must be considered an agent.
[00:21:28] Old men and women, boys driving ox carts, girls tending goats, farm labor, storekeeper, school
[00:21:35] teachers, priest, boatmen, scavengers.
[00:21:40] So when you're dealing with a guerilla situation, everybody's an intelligence gather.
[00:21:47] And that's how you have to treat them all.
[00:21:49] As a guerilla's derny, all information of themselves to their enemy, who is enveloped
[00:21:56] in an impenetrable fog.
[00:22:00] This is a characteristic feature of all guerilla wars.
[00:22:05] The enemy stands on a lighted stage.
[00:22:08] From the darkness around him thousands of unseen eyes intently study his every move,
[00:22:14] his every gesture.
[00:22:17] And he strikes out, he hits air, his antagonist are in substantial, as intangible, as
[00:22:23] fleeting shadows in the moonlight.
[00:22:26] That's a great way of looking at it.
[00:22:32] Back to the book, because of superior information, Guerilla's always engaged under conditions
[00:22:37] of their own choosing.
[00:22:39] Because of superior knowledge of terrain, they're able to use their advantage and the enemies
[00:22:45] discomfort.
[00:22:46] And guerilla's fight only when the chances of victory are weighed heavily in their favor.
[00:22:55] What a great tactic.
[00:22:57] Only fight when chances of victory are weighed heavily in their favor.
[00:23:02] If the tide of battle unexpectedly flows against them, they withdraw.
[00:23:10] They rely only on a magic leadership, distraction, surprise, and mobility to create
[00:23:16] victorious situation before the battle is joined.
[00:23:22] This is all stuff to think about in everything that you do.
[00:23:26] Why are you going to a battle if you've not prepared and set the situation up where you're
[00:23:30] going to be victorious?
[00:23:33] If you start losing, don't stand there and take a beating.
[00:23:37] Just walk away, fade away.
[00:23:43] The enemy is deceived and again deceived.
[00:23:46] Attacks are sudden, sharp, vicious, and of short duration.
[00:23:50] Many are harassing in nature.
[00:23:52] Others are designed to dislocate the enemy's plans and to agitate and confuse his commanders.
[00:23:59] The mind of the enemy and the will of his leaders is a target of far more importance than
[00:24:04] the bodies of his troops.
[00:24:10] So this is an attack on the will of the leaders.
[00:24:17] And how do you do that?
[00:24:17] You confuse him.
[00:24:19] You harass him.
[00:24:22] Mal once remarked, not entirely false, that guerrillas must be experts at running away since
[00:24:30] they do it so often.
[00:24:32] They avoid static dispositions.
[00:24:35] Their effort is always to keep the situation as fluid as possible to strike where and
[00:24:40] when the enemy least expects them.
[00:24:43] Only in this way, can they retain the initiative and so be assured of freedom of action.
[00:24:54] And this is exactly what Hackworth wanted to do in Vietnam.
[00:24:58] He wanted to fight the guerrillas.
[00:25:00] He calls them Gs in the book.
[00:25:01] He wanted to fight the G like a G. He wanted to fight the guerrillas like guerrillas.
[00:25:06] And that was what upset him.
[00:25:07] That's what we kept doing these big conventional operations.
[00:25:10] Well, you do a big conventional operation.
[00:25:12] The enemy disappears.
[00:25:14] They leave behind some booby traps for you.
[00:25:16] They take some sniper shots.
[00:25:17] They hit you with some indirect fire.
[00:25:18] You take casualties.
[00:25:19] They don't.
[00:25:21] Because they disappeared.
[00:25:26] guerrilla operations conducted over a wide region are necessarily decentralized.
[00:25:33] Each regional commander must be familiar with local conditions and take advantage of local
[00:25:37] opportunities.
[00:25:40] The same applies to commands in subordinate districts.
[00:25:44] This decentralized decentralization is to some extent forced upon the guerrillas because
[00:25:50] they lack a well-developed system of technical communications.
[00:25:56] But at the same time, decentralization for normal operations has many advantages, particularly
[00:26:03] if local leaders are ingenious and bold.
[00:26:11] One of the laws of combat that lay for an right about in the book.
[00:26:15] Decentralized command.
[00:26:16] You've got to let your subordinate leaders lead.
[00:26:19] You have to do it.
[00:26:20] You have to let the people know what the strategy is and let them go execute.
[00:26:26] And what so bizarre about this is not the way a communist government runs.
[00:26:29] They control everything.
[00:26:30] They try and control everything.
[00:26:31] Nothing, everything is centralized.
[00:26:34] Everything is centralized.
[00:26:35] And that's why it doesn't work.
[00:26:39] The enemy back to the book.
[00:26:41] The enemy's rear is the guerrillas front.
[00:26:44] They themselves have no rear.
[00:26:46] Their logistical problems are solved in a direct and elementary fashion.
[00:26:50] The enemy is the principal source of weapons, equipment, and ammunition.
[00:26:56] Such the guerrillas says.
[00:26:58] They don't have to worry about logistics.
[00:26:59] They're going to get it from their enemy.
[00:27:03] Now once said, we have a claim on the output of the arsenals of London as well as of
[00:27:14] hanging.
[00:27:15] What is more, it is to be delivered to us by the enemy's own transport corps.
[00:27:23] This is the sober truth, not a joke.
[00:27:27] So they have, where do they get their weapons from?
[00:27:29] Their enemy.
[00:27:30] And their enemy just delivers them to them.
[00:27:36] It is interesting to examine Mao's strategic and tactical theories in the light of his
[00:27:43] principal unity of opposites.
[00:27:47] Okay, so Mao had this principal unity of opposites.
[00:27:52] You may have this might seem a little bit familiar.
[00:27:56] If you read the book, if you read our book, the dichotomy leadership.
[00:28:02] They're opposites.
[00:28:03] So here's Mao's principal called Unity of opposites.
[00:28:09] This seems to be back to the book.
[00:28:10] This seems to be an adaptation to military action of the ancient Chinese philosophical
[00:28:15] concept of Yin Yang.
[00:28:18] Briefly, the Yin and Yang are elemental and pervasive.
[00:28:23] Of opposite polarities, they represent male and female, dark and light, cold and heat,
[00:28:31] recession and aggression.
[00:28:34] Their reciprocal interaction is endless.
[00:28:38] So again, people have said, hey, now I know a new word dichotomy.
[00:28:43] That's what this is.
[00:28:45] It's dichotomy.
[00:28:46] It's opposing forces.
[00:28:49] And now this just gets even more aligned.
[00:28:54] An important postulate of the Yin Yang theory is that concealed within strength, there is
[00:29:01] weakness and within weakness strength.
[00:29:06] It is a weakness of gorillas that they operate in small groups that can be wiped out in
[00:29:11] a matter of minutes.
[00:29:13] But because they do operate in small groups, they can move rapidly and secretly into the
[00:29:18] vulnerable rear of the enemy.
[00:29:22] In conventional tactics, dispersion of forces invites destruction.
[00:29:27] In guerilla war, this very tactic is desirable both to confuse the enemy and to preserve
[00:29:32] the illusion that the gorillas are ubiquitous.
[00:29:40] It is often often a disinvenged, not to have heavy infantry and heavy infantry weapons
[00:29:47] available.
[00:29:48] But the very fact of having to transport them has until recently tied conventional
[00:29:53] columns to roads and well-used tracks.
[00:29:56] The guerilla travels light and travels fast.
[00:29:59] He turns the hazard of terrain into his advantage.
[00:30:03] And makes an ally of tropical rains, heavy snow, intense heat and freezing cold.
[00:30:10] Long night marches are difficult and dangerous.
[00:30:13] But the darkness shields his approach to an unsuspecting enemy.
[00:30:20] In every apparent disinvenged, some advantage is to be found.
[00:30:30] In other words, good.
[00:30:33] The converse is equally true.
[00:30:35] In each apparent advantage lie the seeds of disinvenged.
[00:30:40] The Yin is not wholly in nor the Yang wholly Yang.
[00:30:48] It is only the Wise General, said the ancient Chinese military philosopher Sun Zu, who
[00:30:54] is able to recognize this fact and turn it to a good account.
[00:31:00] guerilla tactical doctrine may be summarized in four Chinese characters, which mean uproar
[00:31:07] in the east strike in the west.
[00:31:12] Here we find, expressed the all-important principles of distraction on the one hand and
[00:31:16] concentration on the other.
[00:31:18] To fix the enemy's attention and to strike, wear and when he least anticipates the blow.
[00:31:26] guerillas are masters of the arts of simulation and dissimulation, the create pretenses,
[00:31:32] and simultaneously disguise or conceal their true semblance.
[00:31:37] Their tactical concepts, dynamic and flexible, are not cut to any particular pattern.
[00:31:45] But Mao's first law of war to preserve oneself and destroy the enemy is always governing.
[00:31:54] Yeah, it's just amazing the amount of similarities.
[00:32:01] And I guess at some point in my life, I'm going to stop being amazed that on the fact that
[00:32:06] the basic principles of war and the basic principles of life, they've been around for thousands
[00:32:11] and thousands of years.
[00:32:14] And for whatever reason, we just have to relearn them.
[00:32:17] I wrote the dichotomy leadership or fought the dichotomy leadership.
[00:32:23] I didn't think about Yang and Yang.
[00:32:25] I showed off if I paid more attention.
[00:32:28] Yeah.
[00:32:29] I went away, you did think of Yang and Yang.
[00:32:31] He used to even call it Yang.
[00:32:33] And I'm saying that didn't spark my thoughts as a lesson that I learned.
[00:32:37] It wasn't taught to me.
[00:32:39] Right.
[00:32:40] Yeah.
[00:32:41] Which is sad.
[00:32:43] I could have been away.
[00:32:45] Like you've been saying, if I had to read more and fought more, maybe I'd have figured
[00:32:49] it out earlier.
[00:32:51] Going on back to the book.
[00:32:54] At the present time, much attention is being devoted to the development of gadgetry.
[00:33:00] So he goes on this again.
[00:33:02] This is still General Griffith that's talking.
[00:33:06] And he's saying something that we hear all the time when I was in the military all the
[00:33:09] time.
[00:33:10] You hear that we're going to get this new technology and that's going to change everything
[00:33:12] and then we're going to be in technology's great, but it's not the key component of war.
[00:33:19] And he says this, I do not mean to suggest that proper weapons and equipment will not
[00:33:24] play an important part in anti-Gerilla operations.
[00:33:27] For of course, they will.
[00:33:29] That's enough, it should be made to improve communication, food, medical and surgical
[00:33:34] packs, weapons and ammunition must be drastically reduced and wait.
[00:33:39] There seems to be no technical reason why a sturdy, light, accurate, automatic rifle weighing
[00:33:44] a maximum of four to five pounds cannot be developed.
[00:33:48] And the search for new and effective weapons must continue.
[00:33:51] But we must realize that flame thrower like guns and bullets are only a very small part
[00:33:59] of the answer to a challenging and complex problem.
[00:34:04] The tactics of guerrillas must be used against the guerrillas themselves.
[00:34:12] Again, this is exactly what Hackworth gave up his career in the army over.
[00:34:17] This is how he wanted a fight and people were not listening to him.
[00:34:21] They must be constantly herried and constantly attacked.
[00:34:26] Every effort must be made to induce defections and take prisoners.
[00:34:31] The best source of information of the enemy is men who know the enemy situation.
[00:34:37] Imaginative, intelligent, and bold leadership.
[00:34:41] Now again, this is General Griffith talking about what it takes to be to guerrilla.
[00:34:45] Imaginative, intelligent, and bold leadership is absolutely essential.
[00:34:52] Anders and leaders at every echelon must be selected with these specific qualities in mind.
[00:35:01] People don't think that.
[00:35:02] This is the Marine Corps.
[00:35:03] Marine Corps General.
[00:35:04] His number one characteristic is imagination.
[00:35:09] That's his number one characteristic.
[00:35:14] Officers and NCOs who are more than competent under normal conditions will frequently
[00:35:19] be hopelessly ineffective when confronted with the dynamic and totally different situation
[00:35:25] characteristics of guerrilla warfare.
[00:35:33] Who would have thought that the Marine Corps General says that the most important.
[00:35:38] He's not talking about bravery.
[00:35:40] He's not talking about anything physical.
[00:35:42] He's talking about imagination and intelligence and leadership.
[00:35:49] That's what wins.
[00:35:54] Okay, now we're going to get to the actual words from Mao Saitong.
[00:36:02] And his, again, his section in this book is called very simply guerrilla warfare.
[00:36:14] And let's hear what he has to say about leadership.
[00:36:16] All guerrilla units must have political and military leadership.
[00:36:22] This is true regardless of the source or size of such units.
[00:36:27] Such units may originate locally in the masses of the people.
[00:36:32] They may be formed from a mixture of regular troops with the groups of people.
[00:36:38] Or they may consist of regular, regular army units intact.
[00:36:44] The mere quantity does not affect this matter.
[00:36:47] Such units may consist of a squad of a few men of a Italian of several hundred men or
[00:36:52] regiment of several thousand men.
[00:36:55] All these must have leaders who are unyielding in their policies.
[00:37:00] Resilute, loyal, sincere, and robust.
[00:37:04] These men must be well educated in revolutionary technique, self-confident, able to establish
[00:37:10] severe discipline and able to cope with counter propaganda.
[00:37:15] In short, these leaders must be models for the people.
[00:37:20] As the war progresses, such leaders will gradually overcome the lack of discipline, which
[00:37:25] at first prevails.
[00:37:27] They will establish discipline in their forces, strengthening them, and increasing their combat
[00:37:32] efficiency.
[00:37:34] Thus, eventual victory will be attained.
[00:37:38] One organized guerilla warfare cannot contribute to victory.
[00:37:45] So clearly once again, leadership is the key component.
[00:37:51] He goes into a little bit more of that.
[00:37:54] But first, now is talking about this.
[00:37:57] What is the basic guerilla strategy?
[00:38:01] Guerilla strategy must be based primarily on alertness, mobility, and attack.
[00:38:07] It must be adjusted to the enemy situation, the terrain, the existing lines of communications,
[00:38:12] the relative strengths, the weather, and the situation of the people.
[00:38:17] You've got to have total adaptability.
[00:38:19] Right?
[00:38:20] Total adaptability.
[00:38:23] In guerilla warfare, select the tactic of seeming to come from the east and attacking
[00:38:28] from the west, avoid the solid attack the hollow, attack with draw, deliver lightning
[00:38:34] blow, seek a lightning decision.
[00:38:37] When guerilla is engaged in a stronger enemy, they withdraw when he advances.
[00:38:41] Harassin when he stops, striking when he's weary, pursuant when he withdraws.
[00:38:46] In guerilla strategy, the enemy's rear, flanks, and other vulnerable spots are his
[00:38:51] vital points, and there he must be harassed, attacked, dispersed, exhausted, and annihilated.
[00:38:58] Only in this way, can guerilla carry out their mission of independent guerilla action and
[00:39:03] coordination with the effort of the regular armies.
[00:39:07] But in spite of the most complete preparation, there can be no victory if mistakes are made
[00:39:13] in the matter of command.
[00:39:22] Very obvious now.
[00:39:25] We're seeing what the warfare is.
[00:39:26] If you're not familiar with it, it's very obvious what it is.
[00:39:29] And it's very similar to Gjitsu.
[00:39:32] You're setting people up, you're not going against their strengths, you're letting people
[00:39:37] move, and it's what we talk about all in here when we talk about dealing with other human
[00:39:42] beings.
[00:39:43] Don't go head to head with them on that point that they're dug in on.
[00:39:47] You're not going to, you're all you're going to do is create adversity.
[00:39:50] You're going to get a fight.
[00:39:52] That's what you're going to get.
[00:39:53] You don't want to fight.
[00:39:54] The other thing that's interesting about this is I start to see slivers into the psychology
[00:39:59] of Mao, where he says here, there can be no victory from mistakes are made in the matter
[00:40:05] of command.
[00:40:06] You can see where that starts to show a micromanager.
[00:40:11] And really if you look at a communist, come on, that's just a giant micromanagement
[00:40:14] of trying to control everything that you can.
[00:40:19] So he starts seeing shades of that psychology of the micromanager.
[00:40:27] Continuing back to the book.
[00:40:29] The strategy of guerrilla warfare is manifestly unlike that employed in Orthodox operations.
[00:40:35] As the basic tactic of the former is constant activity and movement.
[00:40:41] There is in guerrilla warfare no such thing as a decisive battle.
[00:40:45] There's nothing comparable to the fixed passive defense that characterizes Orthodox
[00:40:50] War.
[00:40:51] In guerrilla warfare, transformation of a moving situation into a positional defensive situation
[00:40:57] never arises.
[00:40:58] I'm going to read that again.
[00:41:01] In guerrilla warfare, the transformation of a moving situation into positional defensive
[00:41:08] situation never arises.
[00:41:11] So if you're on the move and you're attacking the enemy and all of a sudden they start
[00:41:14] getting the upper hand, you don't dig in, you disappear, you go away.
[00:41:23] Now we start talking again that this is, I started saying that I start seeing the slivers
[00:41:28] of psychology of mal that might turn them into a micromanager, but the guy had to run this
[00:41:34] war and he knew there was only one way to do it and that's using the basic principles
[00:41:38] of combat leadership.
[00:41:41] And here he talks about it.
[00:41:42] There are differences also in the matter of leadership and command.
[00:41:48] In guerrilla warfare, small units acting independently play the principle role and there
[00:41:54] must be no excessive interference with their activities.
[00:42:00] So here's Mal.
[00:42:02] The guy that tries to control me, the lead communism which tries to control everything
[00:42:07] for the state and he's saying that there must be no excessive interference with their
[00:42:12] activities, individual freedom, who would have thought that Mal is a proponent of individual
[00:42:21] freedom.
[00:42:23] In Orthodox warfare, particularly in a moving situation, a certain degree of initiative
[00:42:27] is accorded to subordinates, but in principle command is centralized.
[00:42:31] So in, you know, he's talking about conventional war and he's talking about how command is
[00:42:35] centralized.
[00:42:37] This is done because small units and all supporting arms and all district must coordinate
[00:42:41] it's the highest degree in the which is actually not true.
[00:42:47] It's possible to and there's no doubt that decentralized command even in a big conventional
[00:42:52] war is infinitely better than centralized command.
[00:42:57] In the case of guerrilla warfare, this is not only undesirable but impossible.
[00:43:04] Only adjacent guerrilla units can coordinate their activities to any degree so we can only
[00:43:09] coordinate if I'm right next to you.
[00:43:11] And strategically, their activities can be roughly correlated with those of the regular forces
[00:43:15] and tactically, they must cooperate with adjacent units of the regular army.
[00:43:20] But there are no strictures on the extent of guerrilla activity nor is it primarily characterized
[00:43:27] by the quality of cooperation of many units.
[00:43:31] It's what you do on your own.
[00:43:34] It's what each individual leader does with his little team.
[00:43:39] That's decentralized command.
[00:43:42] And by the way, that's free market.
[00:43:44] That's capitalism.
[00:43:47] And it's unfortunate that Mao knew this for guerrilla warfare but he couldn't make the
[00:43:53] connection.
[00:43:55] Or like I said, maybe he did but he just grew up to a power.
[00:43:59] When we discuss the terms front and rear, it must be remembered that while guerrillas
[00:44:06] do have bases, their primary field of activity is in the enemy's rear areas.
[00:44:12] They themselves have no rear.
[00:44:16] That's the equivalent of Genjujitsu.
[00:44:18] You don't give up your back.
[00:44:21] Well the military, you don't want somebody to be behind you.
[00:44:29] Where do these guerrillas come from?
[00:44:31] Here's Mao.
[00:44:32] There are those who say, I am a farmer or I am a student.
[00:44:37] I can discuss literature but not military arts.
[00:44:41] This is incorrect.
[00:44:43] There is no profound difference between the farmer and the soldier.
[00:44:49] You must have courage.
[00:44:50] You simply leave your farms and become soldiers.
[00:44:54] That your farmers is of no difference.
[00:44:56] And if you have an education, that is so much better.
[00:45:00] When you take arms in your hand, you become soldiers.
[00:45:04] When you are organized, you become military units.
[00:45:09] guerrilla hostilities are the University of War.
[00:45:13] And after you have fought several times, valiantly and aggressively, you may become
[00:45:19] a leader of troops.
[00:45:23] You gotta get out there on the battlefield and you'll learn.
[00:45:34] I found this interesting.
[00:45:37] In spite of inescapable differences in the fundamental types of guerrilla bands, it is possible
[00:45:43] to unite them to form a vast sea of guerrillas.
[00:45:50] The ancient said, Tai Shan is a great mountain because it does not scorn the mirrored handful
[00:45:56] of dirt.
[00:45:58] The rivers and seas are deep because they absorb the waters of small streams.
[00:46:04] Attention paid to the enlistment and organization of guerrillas of every type and form,
[00:46:09] every source will increase the potentialities of guerrillas in action.
[00:46:17] They're going to take everybody and it's important to take everybody.
[00:46:22] Everybody that shows up is getting in the game.
[00:46:32] Again, this is a point that is so bizarre to hear from now.
[00:46:39] Here he goes.
[00:46:41] The people must be inspired to cooperate voluntarily.
[00:46:47] We must not force them.
[00:46:50] For if we do, it will be in effectual.
[00:46:55] This is extremely important.
[00:47:01] Now I wish you would have read your own book.
[00:47:06] I wish you would have read your own book.
[00:47:08] The people must be inspired to cooperate voluntarily.
[00:47:12] We must not force them.
[00:47:14] For if we do, it will be in effectual.
[00:47:16] This is something that I talk about all the time.
[00:47:19] Just giving people orders does not work.
[00:47:23] You need to lead them.
[00:47:25] You need to inspire them.
[00:47:27] You need to get them to do things because they want to do them.
[00:47:32] You need to get them to do them.
[00:47:48] Getting into the officers a little bit, the leadership.
[00:47:51] Since each guerrilla group fights in a protracted war, its officers must be brave and positive
[00:47:57] men whose entire loyalty is dedicated to the cause of a emancipation of the people.
[00:48:04] Officers should have the following qualities.
[00:48:07] Great powers of endurance that in spite of any hardship he sets an example to his men
[00:48:12] and is a model for them.
[00:48:15] He must be able to mix easily with the people.
[00:48:18] His spirit and that of the men must be one in strengthening the policy of resistance to
[00:48:23] the Japanese.
[00:48:25] If he wishes to gain victories, he must study tactics.
[00:48:31] A guerrilla group with officers of this caliber would be unbeatable.
[00:48:37] Again, a massive focus on the leadership.
[00:48:43] Setting an example leading from the front and also being able to communicate with people.
[00:48:49] Being able to get down there with the troops and have them relate to you, Mau Ngu, this
[00:48:56] was important.
[00:48:59] And a little bit about the troopers here.
[00:49:01] A soldier who habitually breaks regulations must be dismissed from the army.
[00:49:07] Vagabans and vicious people must not be accepted for service.
[00:49:13] The opium habit must be forbidden.
[00:49:16] In a soldier who cannot break himself of the habit should be dismissed.
[00:49:23] Victory in guerrilla war is conditioned upon keeping the membership pure and clean.
[00:49:30] You got to have good troopers.
[00:49:34] The idea must be an ever-present conviction.
[00:49:38] And if it is forgotten, we may succumb to the temptations of the enemy or be overcome with
[00:49:43] discouragements.
[00:49:47] Here we talk about this is commanders intent.
[00:49:49] This is understand why you're doing what you're doing.
[00:49:51] This is task and purposes.
[00:49:52] This is a whole bunch of things wrapped up.
[00:49:54] This is how Mau says it.
[00:49:55] I say people got to understand why they're doing what they're doing.
[00:49:59] And Mau knew the same thing.
[00:50:01] Here's what he said.
[00:50:02] In a war of long duration, those who's conviction that the people must be emancipated
[00:50:09] is not deep or likely to become shaken in their faith or actually revolt.
[00:50:16] Without the general education that enables everyone to understand our goal.
[00:50:26] If anyone's sleeping right now, wake up and listen to this.
[00:50:29] Without the general education that enables everyone to understand our goal.
[00:50:36] The soldiers fight without conviction and lose their determination.
[00:50:43] Your people, if you're in a leadership position, have got to understand why they're doing
[00:50:48] what they're doing.
[00:50:49] They have to.
[00:50:51] Or they fight without conviction and lose their determination.
[00:50:56] Again, this is just...
[00:51:02] It's unbelievable that Mau had this vision and didn't apply it to everything.
[00:51:11] Listen to what he says about discipline.
[00:51:13] A revolutionary army must have discipline that is established on a limited democratic basis.
[00:51:22] In all armies, obedience of the subordinates to their superiors must be exacted.
[00:51:27] This is true in the case of guerrilla discipline, but the basis for guerrilla discipline must
[00:51:32] be the individual conscience.
[00:51:37] With guerrillas, a discipline of compulsion is ineffective.
[00:51:45] A discipline of compulsion is ineffective.
[00:51:47] So if I'm yelling at you and I'm making you do stiff, if I just force you to do things,
[00:51:52] I force discipline on you, that is ineffective.
[00:51:56] Thank you, Mau.
[00:51:59] In pose, discipline.
[00:52:01] Versus self-discipline.
[00:52:02] Yes, this is a familiar term, right?
[00:52:06] In any revolutionary army, there is unity of purpose as far as both officers and men are
[00:52:12] concerned.
[00:52:13] Therefore, within such an army, discipline is self-imposed.
[00:52:19] Although discipline and guerrilla ranks is not a severe as in the ranks of orthodox forces,
[00:52:24] the necessity for discipline exists.
[00:52:27] This must be self-imposed, because only when it is, is the soldier able to understand completely
[00:52:36] why he fights and why he must obey.
[00:52:42] This type of discipline becomes a tower of strength within the army, and it is the only
[00:52:49] type that can truly harmonize the relationship that exists between officers and soldiers.
[00:52:56] It's unbelievable.
[00:53:00] It's unbelievable.
[00:53:02] This is completely true, and it's true across the board in any organization.
[00:53:10] That what, when you get this, when everyone understands why they're doing it, that becomes
[00:53:15] the strength and people discipline themselves, because they understand why.
[00:53:22] And he says that that type of discipline, I have to read the second, this type of discipline
[00:53:26] becomes a tower of strength within the army, and it is the only type that can truly harmonize
[00:53:33] the relationship that exists between officers and soldiers.
[00:53:41] And he goes on to say this, in any system where discipline is externally imposed, the relationship
[00:53:49] that exists between officer and man is characterized by indifference of the one to the other.
[00:53:57] The idea that officers can physically beat or severely tongue-lash their men is a feudal
[00:54:02] one and is not in accord with the conception of self-imposed discipline.
[00:54:09] Discipline of the feudal type will destroy internal unity and fighting strength.
[00:54:15] The discipline self-imposed is the primary characteristic of a democratic system in the army.
[00:54:24] Unbelievable that he wrote these words and ran his nation the way he did.
[00:54:31] It's unbelievable.
[00:54:32] As a matter of fact, I hope some revolutionaries over there are listening to me and saying,
[00:54:37] you know what?
[00:54:38] I think we missed the mark a little bit.
[00:54:39] How did that mean that? Now didn't want us to beat and torture people to get them in line?
[00:54:46] I could go back against them with Mao's own words.
[00:54:51] Let's go toe to toe.
[00:54:54] Get some freedom.
[00:54:58] Further, in such an army, the mode of living, the mode of living of the officers and soldiers
[00:55:04] must not differ too much and this is particularly true in the case of guerrilla troops.
[00:55:10] Officers should live under the same conditions as their men.
[00:55:13] For that is the only way in which they can gain from their men the admiration and confidence
[00:55:17] so vital in war.
[00:55:19] The same thing we heard from everywhere.
[00:55:20] We heard that from Patton.
[00:55:22] So Patton and Mao were on the same page.
[00:55:26] It is incorrect to hold to a theory of equality and all things but there must be equality
[00:55:31] of existence and accepting the hardships and dangers of war.
[00:55:35] Thus we may attain to the unification of the officer and soldier groups a unity both
[00:55:40] horizontal within the group itself and vertical.
[00:55:45] That is from the lower to the higher echelons.
[00:55:49] It is only when such unity is present that units can be said to be powerful combat factors.
[00:55:56] Back to some tactical notes, speed is essential.
[00:56:03] The movements of guerrilla troops must be secret and of supernatural rapidity.
[00:56:09] The enemy must be taken unaware and the action entered speedily.
[00:56:16] There can be no procrastination in the execution of plans.
[00:56:22] We have to get it done here and now.
[00:56:27] The enemy is much stronger than we are and it is true that we can hinder, distract,
[00:56:33] disperse and destroy him only if we disperse our own forces.
[00:56:38] Although guerrilla warfare is the warfare of such dispersed units, it is sometimes desirable
[00:56:43] to concentrate in order to destroy an enemy.
[00:56:47] Thus the principle of concentration of force against a relatively weaker enemy is applicable
[00:56:52] to guerrilla warfare.
[00:56:54] A little bit of prioritize next Q.
[00:56:58] And this right here is where we are going to close it out again going back to leadership.
[00:57:08] No military leader is endowed by heaven with an ability to seize the initiative.
[00:57:15] It is the intelligent leader who does so after a careful study and estimate of the situation
[00:57:20] and a range of the military and political factors involved.
[00:57:24] When a guerrilla unit, through either a poor estimate on the part of its leader or
[00:57:28] pressure from the enemy is forced into a passive position, it is first duty as to extricate
[00:57:33] itself.
[00:57:35] No method can be prescribed for this as the method to be employed will in every case
[00:57:41] depend on the situation.
[00:57:44] One can, if necessary, run away.
[00:57:47] But there are times when the situation seems hopeless and reality is not so at all.
[00:57:53] It is at such times when the good leader recognizes and ceases the moment when he can attain
[00:57:59] and regain the lost initiative.
[00:58:03] Let us revert to alertness.
[00:58:06] To conduct one's troops with alertness is essential of guerrilla command.
[00:58:12] Leaders must realize that to operate alertly is the most important factor in gaining the
[00:58:18] initiative and vital in its effect on the relative situation that exists between our forces
[00:58:24] and those of the enemy.
[00:58:26] guerrilla commanders must adjust their operations to enemy situation to the terrain and
[00:58:30] to prevailing local conditions.
[00:58:33] Leaders must be alert to sense changes in those factors and make necessary modifications
[00:58:37] in troop dispositions to accord with them.
[00:58:42] What are we talking about here?
[00:58:43] We're talking about you got to have the ability to detach.
[00:58:47] He's called it be alert.
[00:58:50] The leader must be like a fisherman who with his nets is able to both cast them and pull
[00:58:56] them out in awareness of the depth of the water, the strength of the current or the presence
[00:59:01] of any obstructions that may fall them.
[00:59:04] As the fisherman controls his nets through the lead robes, so the guerrilla leader maintains
[00:59:09] contact with and control over his units.
[00:59:13] As the fisherman must change position, so must the guerrilla commander.
[00:59:18] Disperption, concentration, constant change of position, it is in these ways that guerrillas
[00:59:24] employ their strength.
[00:59:26] And so you'll notice again what he's talking about is that the leader has to be able
[00:59:30] to detach and be alert of these things that are happening.
[00:59:34] And also you'll notice that throughout this, he puts total responsibility on the leader
[00:59:38] if the leader does well, the troops will do well.
[00:59:42] If the leader fails, they all fail.
[00:59:45] Talking about extreme ownership, this communist.
[00:59:51] So I thought that's a great eye into another leader that, you know, he led troops in combat.
[01:00:08] And like I said throughout that section, he just didn't realize that that is not just
[01:00:15] leadership for guerrilla unit.
[01:00:17] He thought that it was another way when different situations, but it's not good evening
[01:00:24] echo.
[01:00:25] Good evening.
[01:00:26] Welcome to the show.
[01:00:27] Thank you.
[01:00:31] No, and I think it's also good for me, diving into this other book here, you know, know
[01:00:39] where you're going to gain knowledge from, or confirm knowledge.
[01:00:43] Yeah.
[01:00:44] Is it going to be from, you know, one of the most murderous communist dictators of all
[01:00:48] time?
[01:00:49] Yes, I'm getting some knowledge from them, confirming knowledge.
[01:00:52] And that's pretty cool.
[01:00:54] And it also proves once again, once again, that leading people is leading people, whether
[01:01:06] you're doing it combat, whether you're doing a business, whether you're doing it in a team,
[01:01:10] leadership, the leadership principles that work with humans work with all humans in all
[01:01:15] situations.
[01:01:16] Are there nuances?
[01:01:17] Yes.
[01:01:18] Do you have to make adjustments?
[01:01:20] Yes, that's actually what we just talked about.
[01:01:22] Yeah.
[01:01:23] That is being alert enough or detached enough that you can sense those things.
[01:01:28] And you can make those adjustments on the fly.
[01:01:30] But the basic principles, they don't change.
[01:01:32] And they haven't changed for thousands of years.
[01:01:36] So yeah, let's get to some internet questions.
[01:01:43] Sure.
[01:01:44] How's that?
[01:01:45] Sounds good to me.
[01:01:48] But before that, internet related items, other than the questions are the fact that we're
[01:01:55] sponsored by on it.
[01:01:56] .com boom.
[01:01:59] And that's where we get our supplements, including, but not limited to alpha brain, which
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[01:02:09] And I'll tell you, they just release something called MCT oil.
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[01:02:18] to load a low carb like I do, then you can try this stuff out.
[01:02:22] I've been putting it in directly into heavy whipping cream.
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[01:02:37] Zero carbs.
[01:02:38] All fat just flowing through my system.
[01:02:42] Loving it on it.
[01:02:44] This is my third.
[01:02:45] Miles on Jockel's feet.
[01:02:47] Yes.
[01:02:48] Give that stuff a shout.
[01:02:49] I'll tell you.
[01:02:50] I'll tell you some curl oil on top of it.
[01:02:51] Yeah, keep your joints intact.
[01:02:54] Even if you're young, I think you should have curl oil.
[01:02:57] If you're training, yeah.
[01:03:00] If you're listening to this podcast and you're getting after it, yeah, let's grow oil.
[01:03:04] That's the deal.
[01:03:06] On it.com slash Jockel get 10% off.
[01:03:10] Because retail, full of paying 100%.
[01:03:13] I'm not saying that's bad.
[01:03:14] I'm not saying that.
[01:03:15] But 10% off let's face it.
[01:03:17] 10% off.
[01:03:18] Yeah, on it.com slash Jockel.
[01:03:22] Also, if you're in the mood to support this podcast for any reason, you can do a few things.
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[01:03:29] So one of them is before you shop on Amazon, no matter what you're buying, including
[01:03:35] but not limited to any of the books at Jockel reviews or extra ownership of the book
[01:03:40] Jockel Road.
[01:03:42] Go to jockelpodcast.com first.
[01:03:44] Click on the Amazon link.
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[01:03:52] That's what it's called the briefer of fee.
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[01:03:55] Easy way to support.
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[01:04:02] Boom.
[01:04:03] There you go.
[01:04:04] If you want to donate, you can do that too.
[01:04:08] But why not get a shirt, right?
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[01:04:12] Yeah, I forget to give up 30 bucks.
[01:04:14] Might as well get a t-shirt.
[01:04:16] It's true.
[01:04:17] Awesome.
[01:04:18] Let's answer some questions from the people.
[01:04:20] Cool.
[01:04:21] All right.
[01:04:22] First question.
[01:04:25] Jockel and Echo.
[01:04:28] Jiu Jitsu is a long, repetitive grind.
[01:04:32] That said, there are occasional highlights.
[01:04:36] Aha moments.
[01:04:37] Submissions you're proud of.
[01:04:39] Your personal legends, quote unquote.
[01:04:41] Or maybe key embarrassment.
[01:04:42] What are some of those for each of you?
[01:04:45] So, what is an aha moment?
[01:04:50] That's when you learn something really important in my opinion.
[01:04:53] Right.
[01:04:54] Now, the first part of this word says BJJ is a long, repetitive grind.
[01:04:57] No, I don't think so.
[01:04:59] I agree.
[01:05:00] disagree.
[01:05:01] I disagree with that.
[01:05:02] To me, BJJ is a fun, exciting road of enlightenment.
[01:05:08] That's a no.
[01:05:09] That's a no.
[01:05:10] Yeah.
[01:05:11] That's a no.
[01:05:12] Oh, there are some rough days on the match.
[01:05:13] Yeah.
[01:05:14] There's some rough days on that.
[01:05:15] No doubt about that.
[01:05:18] A couple for me.
[01:05:20] Well, one of them for sure.
[01:05:22] I've told the story before about how I started training Jiu Jitsu, a tilting mastery
[01:05:26] of guy named Steve Bailey, awesome guy.
[01:05:28] Wasn't fighter, fought Moitai.
[01:05:30] And he was training with the graces in the early 90s.
[01:05:34] Late 80s.
[01:05:35] He was training up in the garage in torrents.
[01:05:37] And so he knew Jiu Jitsu.
[01:05:39] And he asked a bunch of us that we want to train.
[01:05:43] A couple of us said, yes.
[01:05:45] He choked us out.
[01:05:46] He arm walked us.
[01:05:47] I was amazed.
[01:05:49] And I thought that that was all of Jiu Jitsu.
[01:05:50] And he was like literally a white belt.
[01:05:52] But 1990 or whatever, pre UFC, it was a big deal.
[01:05:57] Sonya is to tell the story quickly.
[01:06:00] One of the guys that was with me in that initial training
[01:06:04] is a guy named Jeff Higgs.
[01:06:05] Jeff.
[01:06:06] Higgs was a seal buddy.
[01:06:08] He might have went through seal training with an awesome guy.
[01:06:11] And we both were kind of training together at that time.
[01:06:13] We trained for like four or five months tops.
[01:06:16] And then we weren't in the same platoon.
[01:06:18] We came back and Higgs actually started training with Fabio Santos
[01:06:25] all the time.
[01:06:26] And he'd got out of the Navy just to train Jiu Jitsu.
[01:06:29] Yeah.
[01:06:30] And I was still in the seal team.
[01:06:31] He was going on a plundering blah blah blah.
[01:06:33] So one day he comes over to my house.
[01:06:34] He had just gotten his purple belt.
[01:06:38] And I was a white belt.
[01:06:39] And he goes, hey, you want to train?
[01:06:41] And I said, yeah.
[01:06:42] I mean, I thought, you know, I know the stuff that he knows.
[01:06:45] Because I learned it three years ago or four years ago or
[01:06:48] whatever it was.
[01:06:49] Yeah, let's do it.
[01:06:51] So we went across the street into the grass and just he just
[01:06:55] choked me.
[01:06:55] I mean, just destroyed me, right?
[01:06:57] Brand new purple belt showing off his skills on my neck.
[01:07:01] He got to do it.
[01:07:02] He got to show off his skills.
[01:07:03] And Higgs is actually an awesome guy.
[01:07:05] Super humble.
[01:07:06] And he was actually the, you know, he was doing me a huge favor.
[01:07:09] You know, showing me that, hey, you don't know anything.
[01:07:12] And so that was that was an aha moment.
[01:07:15] I don't know anything.
[01:07:18] So that was a, that was a good aha moment for me.
[01:07:24] Yeah, my name is way more, it was a lot shorter.
[01:07:28] So me and, me and Keknot, maybe seal one of my best friends.
[01:07:33] We went down to, remember when Dean had that spot,
[01:07:37] that it was like half a spot.
[01:07:39] Yep.
[01:07:39] Yep.
[01:07:40] So that's where I first, this was like maybe a month in.
[01:07:44] And I knew I went in knowing what mount in guard,
[01:07:49] side mount, rear naked choke, I knew that.
[01:07:52] I didn't know how to really function in any of those positions,
[01:07:55] but I knew what they were.
[01:07:56] And I knew how to be in a lot of stuff.
[01:07:58] So that was it.
[01:07:59] I thought it was a pretty solid athlete.
[01:08:01] I was like, 225 solid.
[01:08:03] Was it your first time training with Dean?
[01:08:05] Yeah, this is my first time actually rolling with Dean.
[01:08:08] But he was, he was teacher, you know, like a small group of.
[01:08:11] And so I was like, oh shoot, I'm, you know, Dean,
[01:08:14] that was when in his height, when he was coming off his ADCC,
[01:08:19] when he had a super fight that year against John Jack.
[01:08:23] Yeah.
[01:08:24] So he was the man, you know.
[01:08:26] So I was like, well, I'm gonna roll with Dean,
[01:08:28] but so I maybe outweigh them, but you know,
[01:08:30] I don't know, five, five pounds, whatever.
[01:08:33] But I was like, what if I, what if I get Dean,
[01:08:34] that'll be so awkward, you know, like, I got him in.
[01:08:37] You know, and then, you know, maybe I'm spasning catch a submission.
[01:08:42] I don't know, you know, who knows, it's possible, right?
[01:08:45] So I was, so it was me in kicknuts and Dean was like,
[01:08:48] how are all with you guys?
[01:08:49] You know, welcome to the Academy or whatever.
[01:08:52] And I'm so like, I had, so I roll in right on,
[01:08:55] you know how you kind of, we didn't start standing up.
[01:08:57] He kind of sat down and he just started slowly roll.
[01:09:00] He just key grabbed me.
[01:09:01] And now it's called when you lock up with someone, right?
[01:09:05] You understand that that's what it's called,
[01:09:06] but when we locked up when he grabbed me,
[01:09:09] that's the moment I realized, oh yeah, that, that probability
[01:09:12] of me catching him is literally at this point zero.
[01:09:15] Yeah, literally.
[01:09:16] Just right when he grabbed me, I was like, oh man,
[01:09:18] just the way he was and it just, you didn't feel like
[01:09:21] you could just do anything.
[01:09:22] And then of course he beat me up and when he was on
[01:09:25] a kicknuts rolled with him, remember that thing?
[01:09:26] And he did it in AD, AD, CC, I think he got to just
[01:09:29] solo when you can do a certain position.
[01:09:32] He gets kind of under you and then he picks you up
[01:09:34] and stands up and walks around with you.
[01:09:37] So he did that to kicknuts and then when I rolled with him
[01:09:40] again, he did that to me.
[01:09:41] But with me, he grabbed me and he went, bam, bam,
[01:09:44] I'm bash me against the wall.
[01:09:46] Not hard to play full.
[01:09:47] Just to show me again that the chance of me actually
[01:09:51] doing anything or having any control over this whole
[01:09:53] experience was zero.
[01:09:56] So that's that aha moment that I was like,
[01:09:58] okay, this jujitsu thing is way more,
[01:10:00] because I was bigger than him, I knew I could lift more
[01:10:02] and I'm going to wait to him and know that at this point.
[01:10:05] But it didn't matter at all.
[01:10:07] So that's, yeah, that's when I realized that.
[01:10:10] So I got to do that.
[01:10:11] I got to go on.
[01:10:12] So I was a white belt, a white belt,
[01:10:16] but I was training.
[01:10:18] So after Higgs comes my house, it destroys me.
[01:10:21] I'm like, okay, I'll be there tomorrow,
[01:10:22] give me the address.
[01:10:23] I walk in, I'm like, hey, I wanna sign up for unlimited classes.
[01:10:26] Do you wanna try a class?
[01:10:26] No, I wanna sign up for the class.
[01:10:28] I'm gonna see now.
[01:10:28] That fob you.
[01:10:29] Yep, fob you.
[01:10:30] So go in there, start training,
[01:10:33] and just I'm taking classes during lunch.
[01:10:35] I drive down from team, go take a lunch class.
[01:10:37] I would train with guys in the morning,
[01:10:39] and I could get to train with all the training,
[01:10:40] and then I'd come at night,
[01:10:41] I'd take the beginner's class,
[01:10:41] and I'd take the advanced class,
[01:10:42] and then I'd do open mat,
[01:10:43] and then fob you would kick,
[01:10:46] dean, and I off the mat.
[01:10:47] At nine o'clock and tell us to get lies.
[01:10:50] And so when he was almost training,
[01:10:51] but I still a white belt, right?
[01:10:53] So this guy shows up and it's another seal.
[01:10:56] And I didn't know him, he was from the East Coast,
[01:10:59] and I didn't know him, and he was strong,
[01:11:02] and he was a blue belt, right?
[01:11:04] So I go, okay, this guy's a blue belt, he's gonna be good.
[01:11:06] Well, we had some wars, right?
[01:11:08] There's our mobile, he's a blue belt,
[01:11:10] but I'm training out in San Diego,
[01:11:11] which has really good to get to,
[01:11:12] obviously I'm training with dean,
[01:11:15] through learning from fobio,
[01:11:16] we're training all the time,
[01:11:17] so I'm pretty good for a white belt, maybe.
[01:11:20] So he and I are having a war,
[01:11:21] and he's only in town for about a week,
[01:11:23] or maybe a week and a half, two weeks at the most.
[01:11:26] So a white belt war, white belt warriors.
[01:11:30] So we're going stalemate, everyday stalemate, stalemate,
[01:11:35] stalemate, the last day, the last day,
[01:11:40] he gets mounted on me, and he was a wrestler in college,
[01:11:43] college wrestler, and a very competitive guy
[01:11:46] in a great guy, by the way.
[01:11:48] The last day, he like knows he wants it,
[01:11:51] he gets mounted on me, he digs in a choke,
[01:11:56] a geek choke, like an ex-choke,
[01:11:58] and just puts the pressure,
[01:12:00] and smashing my face does in care,
[01:12:03] and it gets into my neck, I tap.
[01:12:10] And that's that.
[01:12:11] So this guy now, he goes back to East Coast,
[01:12:16] we continue in our careers.
[01:12:17] I'm now training even more,
[01:12:20] I'm just training and training and training and training,
[01:12:23] and I'm training with dean,
[01:12:23] and I'm going to college when I went to college,
[01:12:25] and I'm going to train even more,
[01:12:28] and then finally, so I would see him occasionally.
[01:12:31] And it's all you're still training, he goes,
[01:12:32] yeah, you know what I'm still training, still training,
[01:12:34] and any actually, completely,
[01:12:35] will compete in the worlds, and did well in worlds,
[01:12:37] as a purple belt, I think you actually won worlds,
[01:12:39] as a purple belt, and eventually got a spround belt,
[01:12:43] and so finally, like 10 years later.
[01:12:47] So now, I mean, I literally deans main training partner
[01:12:51] for something like 12 years at this point,
[01:12:55] and like you said, this is when Dean's just dominating,
[01:12:57] and so I'm going to a seal conference on this remote location,
[01:13:06] and I look at the roster of who's gonna be there,
[01:13:09] and he's gonna be there, and I went to a whole depot,
[01:13:13] and I bought like a 30 by 30 canvas,
[01:13:19] canvas, you know, tarp to put on the ground,
[01:13:22] so I could train with him, and I send him an email,
[01:13:27] I was like, hey, I see the trick on the conference,
[01:13:28] let's train with him, he's like, absolutely,
[01:13:30] look forward to it, I'm like, I do too,
[01:13:33] and so we get out there, we fly to this place, we meet up,
[01:13:37] and I say, let's train, and we get on the mat,
[01:13:39] and I'm just, you know, like, a thousand times better
[01:13:43] than I was, and again, at this point,
[01:13:47] I've been training with Dean, I gone through a whole competition phase,
[01:13:51] so anyways, and he's been working,
[01:13:52] and he's been deploying, and he's been being a seal,
[01:13:54] so I mean, I just trained more, and I was just all over him,
[01:13:59] and so I submitted him a bunch of times, and then,
[01:14:01] and then, you know, he kind of said,
[01:14:04] like, can you just show me some stuff?
[01:14:07] You know, I was like, yeah, man, sorry.
[01:14:09] For you, that was the victory, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[01:14:11] but it was funny, and then I would always joke with him about it,
[01:14:14] and I kind of tell that story, he was like,
[01:14:16] almost, I put the spin on it as if I was thinking
[01:14:20] about him the whole time, but it's not true.
[01:14:22] I just, yeah, but, and then one time years later, I saw him,
[01:14:26] and we were in, we were in DC, we actually at the Pentagon,
[01:14:30] hadn't seen him for a year or two, and I see him,
[01:14:33] and I'm in my, my khaki uniform, you know,
[01:14:36] with short sleeves, and he's like, oh, you look in skin,
[01:14:39] you lose weight, and I look back and when you said,
[01:14:41] I'm just trying to get down to your weight class,
[01:14:42] and make it more even next time.
[01:14:44] He just laughs, but a great guy, great guy, great leader, great guy.
[01:14:49] That's funny, that happens a lot of the time where you'll
[01:14:51] develop just through whether it be this kind of thing where you trained,
[01:14:54] and then they leave, and they come back kind of thing,
[01:14:56] or someone who hangs around, you develop that little sense of competition.
[01:14:59] Usually happens with a guy who's close to you,
[01:15:02] you kind of starts with you, or maybe kind of you meet him,
[01:15:05] and you're just, you get start off the relationship for lack of a better
[01:15:09] than you start off at a similar level, you know,
[01:15:13] and then you kind of develop this little competition,
[01:15:16] like, the guy, you know.
[01:15:18] Yeah, and you always, when you get off the bus,
[01:15:20] when you get off the training bus,
[01:15:23] you're gonna lose time, you know,
[01:15:26] you're gonna get better, that's why you can't get off the bus.
[01:15:29] You gotta stay on the bus at all costs,
[01:15:31] you gotta stay on the training bus.
[01:15:32] Yeah.
[01:15:33] If you get off the bus completely,
[01:15:35] people are gonna have to get the bus going away.
[01:15:36] Right, yeah.
[01:15:37] And if they're on the, if you're a little training buddy,
[01:15:39] they'll have bus, yeah, yeah, very, very hard to get.
[01:15:42] You're doing it.
[01:15:43] But there's been a series of periods over time,
[01:15:46] one of them that always deemed, and I talk about a lot,
[01:15:49] is he was killing me for like three months
[01:15:53] with the front head norm, just hammering me with it,
[01:15:57] and just couldn't get out of it smashing me.
[01:16:00] And then one day he goes,
[01:16:00] oh, if you wanna get out of it, just do,
[01:16:02] put your hand on the hip and switch your head to the other side.
[01:16:04] Mm.
[01:16:06] And I'm like, bro, I saw I try it on like seriously.
[01:16:09] You didn't, it's been three months,
[01:16:11] and you didn't show me that?
[01:16:12] Yeah.
[01:16:14] What's your deal, you know?
[01:16:15] And, but it also showed me that that,
[01:16:19] is sometimes what I remember from that,
[01:16:22] is that sometimes these simple moves
[01:16:26] are so effective, and they're so obvious.
[01:16:30] And all you need is just to get that little bit of knowledge
[01:16:35] to make you be able to escape this position
[01:16:37] that I was held in for three months.
[01:16:39] Yeah.
[01:16:40] Yeah, I wouldn't call it a piece of knowledge.
[01:16:42] But just, seemingly, I always like,
[01:16:44] 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, they seem obvious.
[01:16:47] Yes, you're right, but it's,
[01:16:50] that's the beautiful thing about you.
[01:16:52] It's just to it.
[01:16:52] Never know, it's the other thing.
[01:16:54] So why don't get off the bus
[01:16:55] because you never know what day you're gonna learn that thing.
[01:16:58] What minute, what training partner's gonna say,
[01:17:01] hey, if you moved your hips right here,
[01:17:02] you'd've tapped me.
[01:17:04] Yeah.
[01:17:05] Yeah.
[01:17:06] Yeah, actually Dean taught me something
[01:17:08] in that exact same scenario.
[01:17:10] He didn't, he didn't hammer me with it.
[01:17:13] And then teacher Timmy, he just was,
[01:17:15] he noticed that I had an opportunity to do it.
[01:17:18] It was just a small thing.
[01:17:19] It's hard to explain without doing it,
[01:17:22] but he did that.
[01:17:23] But it was just a matter of,
[01:17:24] instead of moving your hips the natural way
[01:17:25] that you always wanted to do, you just twist them the other way
[01:17:28] and it breaks a certain grip
[01:17:29] that he can control you with.
[01:17:31] But yeah, so true.
[01:17:33] What about, like, you know, some embarrassment.
[01:17:38] You think I don't know, I'm getting barriced on the map.
[01:17:44] I mean, you get tapped out of happens.
[01:17:45] Right.
[01:17:46] Yeah.
[01:17:47] I'm not embarrassed by it.
[01:17:48] You know, even if you get caught,
[01:17:50] I mean, just doesn't matter.
[01:17:51] Why would you be embarrassed?
[01:17:53] Yeah.
[01:17:54] Yeah.
[01:17:54] And embarrassed, I think, is a strong term
[01:17:55] because that's true.
[01:17:56] I mean, I don't think I've ever been like embarrassed.
[01:17:59] Like, oh, but I actually,
[01:18:02] I think pretty much only with you,
[01:18:03] where it's not embarrassing,
[01:18:05] it's just like when I think back on it,
[01:18:07] I'm like, man, I should have been maybe mentally tougher.
[01:18:09] Remember when I like given to like a claustrophobia thing?
[01:18:12] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[01:18:12] But you were real good at it,
[01:18:13] because I'd only catch it with you.
[01:18:15] Yeah, yeah.
[01:18:15] No, once I realized that weakness,
[01:18:17] I acted like chairman now and just attacked the weakness
[01:18:21] and would just smother your claustrophobia.
[01:18:23] Yeah.
[01:18:24] And there's a few times where I was like,
[01:18:26] I admitted to myself that I was like,
[01:18:28] I didn't want to deal with that at that time.
[01:18:30] And I was like, mad at myself,
[01:18:32] but I was never really embarrassed.
[01:18:33] I know.
[01:18:34] Next time we roll, I'm going to explore your
[01:18:36] go, good.
[01:18:37] Yeah, Brad, you tested it the other day,
[01:18:39] because you have a thing and whatever do you,
[01:18:42] but you wear cotton shirts a lot of the time when you.
[01:18:44] So after rolling for a while,
[01:18:46] that cotton shirt is like a like me water boarded
[01:18:49] in certain positions.
[01:18:50] Yeah.
[01:18:51] And you were waterboarding me the other day.
[01:18:53] Yeah.
[01:18:54] And but man, no, no, no factor, no vote.
[01:18:57] Wasn't giving in to that one like that.
[01:18:59] Chocolate podcast is helping out that guy.
[01:19:01] This is due to Gabe and Gettin.
[01:19:04] All right.
[01:19:06] You good?
[01:19:06] Yeah.
[01:19:07] Yeah.
[01:19:08] It's all in.
[01:19:09] But I agree with you.
[01:19:10] It's not a great thing.
[01:19:11] So I don't think it's a daily guy.
[01:19:12] And you're looking back to the question also
[01:19:13] says, what submissions are you proud of?
[01:19:16] Yeah.
[01:19:17] Like again, that's sort of like the embarrassment thing.
[01:19:19] Right?
[01:19:20] You do a submission.
[01:19:21] Yeah.
[01:19:22] And even when I talk to people,
[01:19:23] like, they say, I'm going to catch you one day.
[01:19:25] Right.
[01:19:26] And I go, good man, that's awesome.
[01:19:27] Yeah.
[01:19:27] Do you just two works if you use it on me?
[01:19:29] It's going to work.
[01:19:29] And I would, I will admit that that right there.
[01:19:32] I'm going to catch you one day.
[01:19:33] That's there.
[01:19:34] But not teeny like legitimate or significant degree.
[01:19:37] Because I'll tell you, I have that in my head about you.
[01:19:39] I'll catch you one day.
[01:19:40] And I know you have been, you're mine.
[01:19:42] No, you won't.
[01:19:43] And even if you were to tell me, no, I don't have that in my
[01:19:46] estate.
[01:19:46] I don't want to know.
[01:19:47] I accept it.
[01:19:49] You know, because here's the deal.
[01:19:51] If I just didn't want, if I didn't want you to ever catch me,
[01:19:54] what would I do?
[01:19:55] Wouldn't roll with you.
[01:19:55] Right.
[01:19:56] But I don't care.
[01:19:57] You know what I mean?
[01:19:58] I'm going to roll with you all the time.
[01:20:00] Yeah.
[01:20:00] Who ever steps on the map?
[01:20:02] Yeah.
[01:20:02] That's what's the worst case in the area.
[01:20:03] You get tapped out.
[01:20:04] I mean, take a little bit better.
[01:20:05] Yeah.
[01:20:06] Yeah.
[01:20:07] And it kind of presents those opportunities to be like, okay, my
[01:20:09] game's not all perfect.
[01:20:11] Because if you get to, you don't realize how many holes you have.
[01:20:13] You know, when you're sitting there, sometimes you do make like a little mistake.
[01:20:17] And this is a good life lesson, too.
[01:20:19] Sometimes you make a little mistake with somebody and you're lacks with somebody.
[01:20:24] And they get and they might catch you.
[01:20:26] When when normally, if you went 100 times more, you didn't relax at that moment.
[01:20:31] But you can't live in that world because you got to relax when you train.
[01:20:34] Otherwise, you won't explore new positions and get put and compromise positions and
[01:20:37] all that.
[01:20:38] So yeah.
[01:20:39] And again, it's not to any real significant degree.
[01:20:43] It's more just like a fun kind of competition thing that you have with certain people.
[01:20:50] And you're like, yeah, I'm going to tap that guy one day.
[01:20:53] You know, you don't talk trash to him whenever that's out.
[01:20:56] Unfortunately, I'm the victim of that attitude towards me.
[01:20:59] Yeah, well, you have to.
[01:21:00] I was watching too.
[01:21:01] Yeah, the top two of our good guys rolled today.
[01:21:04] They're only the other that laughing.
[01:21:06] They're having a lot of laughing.
[01:21:07] They're literally laughing.
[01:21:08] They're like telling jokes to each other.
[01:21:10] When it's my turn to go in them, it's a murder time.
[01:21:12] They're bringing it.
[01:21:13] They're smashing.
[01:21:14] They're bringing it.
[01:21:16] And it was it was it was bones, bones, Joan, Justin Jones, who's an animal and strong and
[01:21:22] good.
[01:21:23] And it was Taylor.
[01:21:25] Taylor and Taylor's just a complete beast.
[01:21:27] But those guys are only each other.
[01:21:28] It's all gave us a laugh.
[01:21:30] And they come with me to bring in the heat.
[01:21:32] Because you know what they're thinking?
[01:21:33] Exactly what you just said.
[01:21:35] Maybe they can get that tap.
[01:21:36] Get it today.
[01:21:38] It will be a grind though if you have this specific mindset, which can be common.
[01:21:44] And sometimes you might go in and out of it where if your goals are predicated on something
[01:21:50] outside of just learning, you just like sometimes people would be focused on the belt.
[01:21:54] Oh, yeah.
[01:21:55] I want to get my purple belt or whatever.
[01:21:57] And when am I going to get that purple belt?
[01:21:59] And then people tell you the answer really is if you want to answer that question, put
[01:22:03] in the time, put in the work, learn all this stuff.
[01:22:05] And one day it will come to you.
[01:22:07] Yeah.
[01:22:08] So it's your goal.
[01:22:09] It's the same thing when I talk about people in there and their career.
[01:22:13] They say I want to get promoted.
[01:22:15] If you're in your career to get promoted, it's going to be a grind.
[01:22:19] If you're in your career, you're trying to do a good job.
[01:22:23] Like when I was in the military, I didn't care about promotion.
[01:22:25] I was just trying to do a good job.
[01:22:27] Don't you do a good job?
[01:22:28] You'll get noticed.
[01:22:29] At some point, and you'll get your promotion.
[01:22:31] But if all your turn-doers get promoted, it's game and maneuver and all that stuff.
[01:22:35] It's not going to be fun.
[01:22:36] Yeah.
[01:22:37] And it's whack.
[01:22:38] And you see people, everyone, you can, one someone's doing that you can tell because they'll
[01:22:42] be.
[01:22:43] When the teachers around, they won't roll with good guys and get good work.
[01:22:46] They'll just, you know, they'll do stuff with all the way to the only way.
[01:22:49] Because they want to look good and demonstrate to the teacher, hey, look, I'm rolling
[01:22:52] like a purple belt.
[01:22:53] Give it to me, you know, so they have that kind of approach to it.
[01:22:56] And it gets in your way.
[01:22:57] And yeah, it will be a grind.
[01:22:59] Because you're going to be like, man, how many hours do I have to put into this thing?
[01:23:01] Because your focus on when am I going to get the belt?
[01:23:04] And you can fall in it out of that sometimes too.
[01:23:06] It's very, because it kind of depends on your environment.
[01:23:09] If everyone's thinking like that, or if they're even vocal about it, you know, you can't
[01:23:12] help the kind of maybe feel that and be like, maybe that's kind of the thing, you know?
[01:23:16] Yeah, don't worry about your belt.
[01:23:18] Yeah.
[01:23:19] Man, I didn't even know that they're, because when I started, I was going with Dean,
[01:23:22] so it was all nogie.
[01:23:24] So I didn't really know really about belts.
[01:23:26] And Jimmy, remember Jimmy?
[01:23:27] Yeah.
[01:23:28] Hey, come to class tomorrow.
[01:23:30] We have promotions.
[01:23:32] So be sure to come.
[01:23:33] And I was like, oh, that's cool.
[01:23:35] I thought he meant promotions like some brands were coming in to promote the products
[01:23:38] and stuff.
[01:23:39] So it would be a fun time.
[01:23:40] So I was like, oh, yeah, that's cool.
[01:23:41] He's like, yeah, so come like that.
[01:23:43] And I'm like, yeah, all right.
[01:23:44] So you got to my belt.
[01:23:45] I said, why I said, I can't really make it because usually I work at night or whatever.
[01:23:50] And he's like, no, no, he want to come.
[01:23:51] And I was like, all right, I said it all try and something like, man, he's like, no, no,
[01:23:54] you're getting promoted.
[01:23:55] I was like, what does that mean?
[01:23:57] I didn't say, what does that mean?
[01:23:59] But I was like, I'm being, he's like, yeah, you're getting your blue belt.
[01:24:02] And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess, right?
[01:24:04] You get belts, right?
[01:24:05] But I was just training and competing.
[01:24:08] And I think that that I learned like, I mean, I think as a white belt, if you're
[01:24:13] into it, you learn the most.
[01:24:14] You know, I'll try.
[01:24:15] Because you're going from zero up to like, you know, the learning curve.
[01:24:19] Yeah, it's more steep for sure.
[01:24:21] But yeah, I think that's a good attitude to maintain.
[01:24:24] And all costs like maintain that attitude.
[01:24:26] I just want to learn the next thing to learn.
[01:24:28] If the other thing that's the other thing that's a bummer on that, same topic is when
[01:24:33] people get the purple belt, then you never see them again.
[01:24:38] Yeah.
[01:24:39] Or they get their brown belt and you never see them again.
[01:24:40] They get their black belt and they never see them again.
[01:24:41] You know, you just start now when you get your purple belt.
[01:24:44] It's when you're starting to get good.
[01:24:46] That's when you're starting to become a real duit duit player.
[01:24:49] Yeah.
[01:24:50] Yeah.
[01:24:51] It's when you have a lot.
[01:24:53] And I want to say most are all or nothing, but you have a lot of legit set weapons.
[01:24:57] Yeah.
[01:24:58] I just don't know how to use them for sure.
[01:24:59] I'm going to start learning how to use them for sure.
[01:25:00] The difference is the purple belt and a blue belt.
[01:25:02] I mean, a purple belt, you know, I'll roll with purple belt in our gym and they're
[01:25:05] competitive, you know, most of the blue belts, unless there's studs are, you know, you're
[01:25:10] not going to be really threatened with anything even positionally.
[01:25:14] Right.
[01:25:15] But the purple belt's a whole different story.
[01:25:16] You know, you make a mistake with a purple belt.
[01:25:17] They're there right there and bound.
[01:25:19] No.
[01:25:20] Yep.
[01:25:21] Absolutely true.
[01:25:22] So we're doing because in my experience anyway, I've seen their like polar opposites as
[01:25:28] far as that kind of personality, the guy who will get a belt in disappear or the guy who
[01:25:32] will get a belt in the day he gets his belt.
[01:25:34] He's like, like he's been training for six months when you weren't looking or something
[01:25:38] just in that one day because I think it's a mental thing.
[01:25:41] Oh, they rise to the occasion.
[01:25:42] Exactly.
[01:25:43] Right.
[01:25:44] Got it.
[01:25:45] Yeah.
[01:25:46] And they're like, don't be in a hurry to get your belts anyways because you have so much more
[01:25:51] free to make mistakes or a blue belt, your white belt.
[01:25:55] I kept one of my buddies as a white belt for like years.
[01:26:00] And I said, and right now, you know what he is, been training for 10 years, blue belt.
[01:26:05] Because he's overseas, he's been traveling all this stuff and he should be a purple belt
[01:26:09] at least.
[01:26:10] Yeah.
[01:26:11] He's tapping out black belts.
[01:26:12] So they're going to give it to him where he's training.
[01:26:14] But yeah.
[01:26:15] The other thing is, and it's easier said than done, I think, especially if you're in a certain
[01:26:19] environment or a certain type of person, but if at all possible, don't think about the
[01:26:25] belt, I don't think about your belt.
[01:26:26] I think that's the thing about the knowledge.
[01:26:28] Yeah.
[01:26:29] That'll be the one way to get into this little realm of thinking due to it's a long repetitive
[01:26:34] grind.
[01:26:35] Not guaranteed.
[01:26:36] I'm not saying that's why, but I'm saying that is a good way to definitely like
[01:26:41] that definite factor.
[01:26:42] Yes.
[01:26:43] Big time, big time.
[01:26:44] Next question.
[01:26:45] Jockel, from your experience or observation, how does one learn humility?
[01:26:54] And on top of that, talk about gaining more self-confidence.
[01:26:59] So this here was actually two questions.
[01:27:02] Two questions.
[01:27:03] One of them, how do you learn humility and the other one is how do you gain more self-confidence
[01:27:07] of course, I paired these together because there's a dichotomy in those two, right?
[01:27:14] If you have a bunch of self-confidence and you're not being humble and if you're being too
[01:27:17] humble and you don't have self-confidence.
[01:27:19] So a good analogy of this, of course, what we were just talking about is to jitsu because
[01:27:27] when you start, you jitsu and we'll turn this into a metaphor for life.
[01:27:30] When you start, you jitsu, you very quickly learn number one that you can get beat, that
[01:27:37] you're not everything that you thought you were, right?
[01:27:41] And at the same time, you start to gain confidence.
[01:27:45] I mean, it makes you more confident because you realize that as you have knowledge, it's
[01:27:49] the things that other people don't know.
[01:27:52] And so it's the same thing with life because if you're in life and you step out into the arena,
[01:28:00] right?
[01:28:01] You're going to realize that you're not.
[01:28:02] You don't know everything.
[01:28:04] That's something you're going to realize.
[01:28:08] The more that you realize that you don't know everything, the more it humbles you, but
[01:28:16] also in a reverse way actually makes you more confident because now you're gaining knowledge
[01:28:22] because you are stepping into the arena.
[01:28:24] So it's like when you jitsu, when you spar and you're roll, you're going to get tapped.
[01:28:31] Yes, but the more you do it, the more confident you get.
[01:28:34] And the more you accept the fact that you don't know everything you don't like the question
[01:28:37] before like what are you embarrassed about?
[01:28:39] How do you mean, embarrassed in the sport?
[01:28:41] Don't be embarrassed.
[01:28:42] Go there and get tapped out.
[01:28:44] Good.
[01:28:45] You're learning.
[01:28:46] And that's what you have to do in life.
[01:28:49] If you want to gain humility and you want to gain self-confidence in life, you have to get
[01:28:56] on the mat.
[01:28:58] You've got to step up in lead.
[01:29:00] You've got to step up and talk.
[01:29:02] You've got to volunteer for the hard job.
[01:29:04] You've got to take risks.
[01:29:05] That's how you're going to gain the confidence and the humility because sometimes you're
[01:29:09] going to get beat, sometimes you're going to win.
[01:29:13] But you won't make any of that progress unless you take the opportunity to step out on
[01:29:19] the mat, step into the arena, step into the cage, step onto the stage, step up onto
[01:29:25] the leadership pedestal.
[01:29:27] That's how you make it work.
[01:29:29] Because when you're humble, that's what humility comes from.
[01:29:34] You realize that you're not perfect and you realize that nobody is.
[01:29:38] So it's like that old thing, a walk in and picture everyone with their underwear on or
[01:29:41] whatever.
[01:29:42] When you realize that everyone else is human, that increases your confidence.
[01:29:46] Because you're not looking at everyone like that.
[01:29:48] They're masters.
[01:29:49] No, they're not.
[01:29:50] They're just other people.
[01:29:52] So that's what I would do.
[01:29:55] If you want to gain confidence and you want to gain humility, both of them get out there, get
[01:30:01] on the mat, get on the stage or in the game, into the leadership position, whatever
[01:30:07] the case may be, and live, and don't be embarrassed.
[01:30:13] And don't be abusive when you do do well.
[01:30:16] You know, that's the thing.
[01:30:17] Again, that's the thing about you.
[01:30:18] Just doing this.
[01:30:19] Think about life.
[01:30:20] You realize you're not going to be there's always going to be someone that's better
[01:30:22] than you.
[01:30:23] That's okay.
[01:30:24] Just be humble.
[01:30:25] Learn from it.
[01:30:27] And when you know that there's other people that are going to be better than you, it's
[01:30:30] okay.
[01:30:31] And what you can do, because you know you're going to be better than other people.
[01:30:35] Yeah, I was talking with Greg and Tim today about humility.
[01:30:41] So there's like internal humility and external humility.
[01:30:45] So the external humility isn't really humility.
[01:30:49] It's the guy who's super respectful when he talks to people and how he talks, but on
[01:30:53] the inside he's like, I'm better than anyone.
[01:30:56] I know everything.
[01:30:58] And the opposite is if someone's the opposite, on the outside he's like, heck yeah,
[01:31:02] like a conner McGregor.
[01:31:03] Like I'm the, you know, I'm the greatest.
[01:31:04] I'm going to beat on my time.
[01:31:05] He is dope and all this stuff and how good I am.
[01:31:08] But on the inside when it comes down, when no one's looking, when it's time to train,
[01:31:11] he's learning from everyone.
[01:31:13] Some guy, a white belt gives him a tip.
[01:31:15] He considers that tip is it's going to help me.
[01:31:17] You know?
[01:31:18] So he's humility allows him to learn from everybody.
[01:31:22] And you know, he ends up being more successful because of that humility.
[01:31:27] And that's like the internally humility.
[01:31:30] That's true statements.
[01:31:31] You know, you know, some people they're like, hey, I'm not cocky.
[01:31:37] I'm confident.
[01:31:40] Do you think that there's like a difference between others?
[01:31:42] There's absolutely a difference.
[01:31:43] There's absolutely a difference.
[01:31:44] There's absolutely a difference.
[01:31:45] And it's a dichotomy because you have to be confident, but not cocky.
[01:31:49] Right?
[01:31:50] Confidence, like, you know, confidence saying, I know I can, I know I could win this match or
[01:31:54] hey, I know I can make this happen or hey, I know I can lead this mission or
[01:31:57] whatever.
[01:31:58] That's just nothing wrong with that.
[01:31:59] Yeah.
[01:32:00] Cocky is, hey, I know I can win this and I don't even need to train.
[01:32:05] Right.
[01:32:06] I know I can lead this mission and we don't even need to prepare.
[01:32:08] That's cocky.
[01:32:09] And that's wrong.
[01:32:10] So confident, but not cocky.
[01:32:11] It's a simple dichotomy, a leadership which is actually in the book.
[01:32:17] So yes, there is a difference.
[01:32:20] And you know, some people, they won't do it necessarily in terms of being a leader or anything
[01:32:25] like that.
[01:32:26] It's not kind of in life, you know, these people.
[01:32:28] It's like, yeah, because they talk about themselves all the time or something like that.
[01:32:31] Right?
[01:32:32] So in those cases, I kind of differentiated it where a cocky person is going to talk about
[01:32:38] himself and how good he or she or whatever is unprompted.
[01:32:43] Confidence is they're going to answer honestly about how they feel about their preparedness
[01:32:48] or skill or whatever, but it has to be prompted.
[01:32:50] Fair enough.
[01:32:51] Just go out of their way and be like, I'm the greatest, you know, but if someone's like,
[01:32:55] hey, you know, honest question, do you think you're the greatest and they really think
[01:32:59] they are the greatest in their experience or whatever, they're going to say the honest thing.
[01:33:02] No, that's like a confident versus cocky.
[01:33:05] I was my daughter said the other day, I was considering bringing my daughter on the, my
[01:33:12] oldest daughter on the podcast because people ask about parenting a lot.
[01:33:16] I'm not going to do it.
[01:33:17] I decided.
[01:33:19] But you know, I was like, well, what kind of questions would I ask her?
[01:33:23] And I said, well, tell, you know, I was just kind of experimenting.
[01:33:26] I said, tell people something that they wouldn't expect about me or something that you
[01:33:31] recognize about me.
[01:33:32] And one of the things she said, which he heard me talking to someone about you, just
[01:33:35] who that didn't know me.
[01:33:36] And they were like, oh, oh, do you train you, Jitsu?
[01:33:38] And I said, oh, yeah, I do.
[01:33:39] And they said, are you good?
[01:33:41] And I said, like, I'm all right, you know, I've been training for a while.
[01:33:45] So I'm all right.
[01:33:46] And she said, I was really like, I was surprised at how humble you were even doing Jitsu for
[01:33:50] 20 years.
[01:33:51] And you know, I said, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, nobody's
[01:33:53] well, that person might be better than me.
[01:33:54] That's a reality.
[01:33:55] I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'm really good, you know.
[01:33:59] Yeah.
[01:34:00] And you know what, I'm listening to this.
[01:34:02] And I'm trying to, I'm trying to think in my experience, your reaction to, you
[01:34:07] need you just to questions in that way, where.
[01:34:09] So I don't think I've ever heard you.
[01:34:12] And I've known you for 10 years, I think maybe 8 years or so.
[01:34:16] I don't think I've ever heard you say, yeah, I top that guy out.
[01:34:19] I don't think I've ever heard you say that.
[01:34:22] Yeah, if I ask, no, no, I can't really like picture you saying that. Yeah, I tapped it right. I tapped them up.
[01:34:31] Yeah, it's one of those weird things too because it, it, in a one way, it means something in another way it doesn't mean anything.
[01:34:42] Yeah, it's been trained for longer than you, you write them a stick, you know?
[01:34:45] Yeah, exactly. That's kind of the point where it's in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter. You're right.
[01:34:50] You mature way that's, you know, part of that, if you've been doing jiu-jitsu for even a little while, you'll have at least this much of it in you.
[01:34:57] Like, hey, did you tap that guy out? Kind of thing. And I was reading a thing just kind of online a little fun thing where it was like unwritten rules of jiu-jitsu.
[01:35:04] You don't go and talk about how you tap this guy out today. You don't do that. And that's true.
[01:35:08] Yeah. But the reason there's an article like that is because it's a small part of that, in all of us that wants to say, you know, hey, you know,
[01:35:15] maybe with your close friends, you'd be like, hey, did you get them in and you'd be like, yeah, or you'll come to tell your wife who doesn't care at all, by the way.
[01:35:22] But it's there in you. But with maturity, you're not going to go and say, hello, yeah, I tapped him out.
[01:35:29] Yeah, but with you, I mean, especially now we're kind of close. I still don't, I've never heard you say, yeah, I got him. I tapped him out.
[01:35:35] Even when I remember one time, I'm not going to say who could he's a well-known guy and he came and visited it and I rolled when he just beat me up.
[01:35:41] And then you rolled with him, I didn't see the whole Royce, I guess we're only going to ask you afterwards.
[01:35:45] I was like, hey, so you know, like, all I said was what happened? Because I didn't remember that's how you'd always ask me.
[01:35:50] You know, like, hey, what happened? You know, like, how do you go kind of thing?
[01:35:54] And then, so I asked you that and you're like, it sounded, it really felt like you wanted to say it.
[01:35:59] But it was like almost like you had this rule almost or something. You were like, we were getting after it.
[01:36:06] You just left it and I was like, I respect it. But yeah, yeah. And I just kind of realized that. I don't think you've ever said that.
[01:36:15] Yeah, I think that's probably a decent policy to have.
[01:36:18] Yeah, I had a guy one time that passed my guard.
[01:36:21] And he, no, it wasn't you. Somebody passed my guard and held it for about a second and a half and then stood up and literally ran around.
[01:36:33] Right, right, screaming. No, this is 50. Yeah, you told me about that. Yeah, I was kind of wild.
[01:36:38] You know, it's strange. That was really strange to you. But although I would maybe, I'm not saying I would never do that. I might do that as a joke, you know,
[01:36:45] But I feel where he was coming from.
[01:36:48] Yeah, it's it.
[01:36:50] You know, actually for a while, this helped me back because people got so intent on passing my guard that I had to defend it as if I was defending a tap.
[01:37:00] Yeah, I'm not kidding. Yeah, yeah. And so now, and then finally, like probably six months ago, maybe a year ago, I just said, you know, I'm starting to let people pass my guard just so I can play different parts of the game.
[01:37:10] And so now I just, you know, I'm not that concerned about it anymore.
[01:37:14] Mm-hmm. People get no crazy.
[01:37:20] Uh, mixed question.
[01:37:22] Do you centralize command? Every thought of how parents ultimately deployed their children into the world and the parallels?
[01:37:33] Yeah, and so people have been asking me to talk about parenting.
[01:37:38] Mm-hmm.
[01:37:39] Since the podcast started, and I really have been avoiding it. Again, one of the things I was considering was bringing my daughter on possibly, and I'm not going to do it.
[01:37:51] And, you know, my oldest daughter, she's 16. And I was thinking myself, if I was on a video or a recording when I was 16 years old, I would not want to hear that. I would not want to be that.
[01:38:04] You know, just wouldn't want that. So I'm not going to do that to my daughter, even though she's super mature, smart, articulate. It would definitely be interesting, but I'm not going to subject her to that kind of environment.
[01:38:20] And the other reason I don't want to talk about parenting very much is because my oldest kid is 16. I have no idea if I've been successful or not. I don't. I mean, doing great in school, great. That's cool.
[01:38:33] But I need another 10 years before I can pass judgment and actually maybe even more than that because if they're successful not because, okay, if they're successful, what's success?
[01:38:44] Then they got into a good college that they got a good job that they have lots of money that they have kids spouse house cars, whatever.
[01:38:50] But at the same time, what if they have all that, but they're miserable because that happens all the time. I meet people like that all the time.
[01:38:56] They got a bunch of money. They're not successful because they're angry. They're upset. They're depressed. They're life sucks.
[01:39:02] So was I a good parent if I drove them into that position? Maybe not. So I'm not.
[01:39:10] I'm not. I don't like to. I don't want to talk about something that I'm not feeling super confident about because I can't pass judgment yet.
[01:39:19] I can tell you my opinion, but even that, I don't want to influence you and I don't have facts.
[01:39:24] You know, I can tell you about leadership because I've been in leadership positions, hard ones. And I can talk with at least some some level of confidence that what I'm saying is true because I've seen it.
[01:39:35] And I've seen it in the military and I've seen it in the civilian world and I've seen it on teams. I've seen it a bunch of different places. So I have a pretty good feeling about it.
[01:39:43] Parenting, but it's just, it's just a little bit different because I don't know because there's definitely a different interaction.
[01:39:50] Now, and for everyone that's been waiting this entire podcast here, it comes. That being said.
[01:39:58] You do absolutely have to use decentralized command with your kids because you're not going to be there for every decision that they make. You're not going to be there every time they get passed a drug disorder every time they've had some alcohol and they need to drive somewhere or
[01:40:14] Every time they stumble into a bad situation or they see someone participating in something that's wrong or they see someone perpetrating a crime and maybe they could do something.
[01:40:23] So it's not going to be there all the time. So just like decentralized command, you have to set them up. You have to put them. You have to give them guidelines that they're going to take out their commanders intent.
[01:40:37] They've got to understand right and wrong. They've got to understand long-term goals. They've got to understand consequences. They've got to understand accountability for their actions.
[01:40:48] And they've got to understand, I think, this is one of the most important things to keep teach kids is they've got to understand how what they're doing today is going to affect their lives in five years and three years in ten years in 15 years.
[01:41:02] The things that you're doing today and some adults don't even get that. Unfortunately, that what you're doing today is going to affect you long term.
[01:41:11] And there were some times where I slid into that, you know, you're in the steel teams, you just don't think it's going to last forever. You know, so here's going to do what you're going to do.
[01:41:21] And so that's commanders intent. That's giving your subordinate leadership, which is your kids.
[01:41:28] The understanding, just like Mao said, the understanding of why they're doing what they're doing, why they're health matters, why they're education matters, why respecting people matters.
[01:41:39] Why creativity matters, all these different things, explaining them why so that they understand so that when they are out there and they have to make a decision.
[01:41:49] They have to choose that they understand why the decision matters and therefore they can act appropriately.
[01:41:58] And I think that's what you have to do as a parent who is in fact leading your children through life, whether you like it or not.
[01:42:10] Yeah, and then I think that that's boom.
[01:42:15] That's a good move. Not getting too deep into specific things about how you specifically parent because there's like, is there even such thing is perfect parenting everyone like everyone's desires for the way the kids turn out is different.
[01:42:30] So people want their, you know, their kid to be this free spirit travel the world don't get nailed to them.
[01:42:48] And that's the last part to develop as a human being. It's the last part of your brain. That's the way teenage boys especially right teenage 16, 17, 18, they get equipped with basically all the hardware but the software the part that controls it is all jumped up so they're physically strong like at hormones.
[01:43:10] They got a driver's license probably they have a right now, right? So they go off and they're just basically shooting off their guns with no, you know, no, you know, whatever the software is to, yeah, you know, so that's what they make mistakes.
[01:43:25] That's the way they make all these these crazy mistakes with their frisly influence through friends because the part of their brain that that helps determine, okay, this this consequence is going to come along with this specific action is underdeveloped.
[01:43:39] And on average, any gives you, you know, let's give her take that on average it gets fully developed at about 24 25 years old.
[01:43:47] Oh, that explains a lot. Yeah, it does absolutely does. So that's as far as decision making so.
[01:43:54] So yeah, and that that probably explains why dealing with teenagers becomes harder because they have all this hardware and the software still is trying to be updated.
[01:44:05] But back to the perfect current thing, there's no real perfect parent people want different things for their kid and everyone's different everyone has different philosophy to explain come doing not spank on my read this or that.
[01:44:14] So the outcome is going to be different and those different outcomes are going to appeal to different people. So it's basically like if you have a specific outcome that you want your kid to have.
[01:44:26] It's going to be determined by a bunch of things, but I think in my experience and both being a parent and having parents, so to speak, is consistency.
[01:44:37] Like if you could, if you have a message or you know, some kind of discipline they're imposing or some kind of just idea that you want to you want to stick with your kids.
[01:44:46] Be consistent on it. Don't, you know, don't say, hey, no jumping on the bed one day and then the next day you don't feel lazy or tired or whatever and you don't say, hey, don't jump on the bed because they're going to be like, oh, well, is this today I can jump on the bed or is it not I want to jump on the bed when you're not looking guess what I'm going to be doing.
[01:45:04] I know that's not when you say, but if you're no jumping there, but jump, jump there, just going to say, okay, there's no jumping on the bed because they're going to be influenced by somebody. They're going to get rules and how do I act? How do I be? What do I say? What don't I say? They're going to get that from somebody.
[01:45:17] And if you're all inconsistent, you might as well just be noise on the TV that comes on sometimes.
[01:45:21] If you're inconsistent with it, they're going to get it from, I don't know, someone who's more consistent that could be the neighbor that could be TV that could be the kid that they look up to in school who's not very smart or maybe it's smart. I don't know there's a teacher at, you know, that drug dealer, whoever they're going to get it from somewhere.
[01:45:37] So I think it would be consistent, they'll get it from you. And the more things that you that are conducive to their success in whatever, whatever you consider, consists of our success, the more consistency you display in regards to those things because you know that outcome.
[01:45:53] You know that outcome that they want. You know that if they act a certain way, it's going to facilitate this certain outcome. You know that, or you should, I hope you'll be doing.
[01:46:01] So if you just remain consistent on those issues to shape that, that's when it's going to work. I'm going to throw one more wrench into your system.
[01:46:11] I was kind of agreeing with what you're saying, but I just want to throw this out there for everybody.
[01:46:15] If you got kids in my opinion, your kids are not going to be who you want them to be.
[01:46:25] They're going to be them. And that is the biggest hurdle to get over mentally. I had to get, I thought that the kids wouldn't be what I wanted to be.
[01:46:35] But guess what they're not, they're going to be what they are. They're humans. And I got four kids and every one of them is completely different from the other one.
[01:46:43] They all came from me, but they're all, and they all got raised with the same me and my same wife.
[01:46:51] And yet they're all radically different. Why is that? It's because they're different humans. And so if you try and impose your vision on your kids, it will not be successful.
[01:47:04] And you'll have a meltdown at some point. That's my opinion. I could be wrong, but that's my opinion. And I am not an expert on parenting.
[01:47:15] And I don't want to people to obey my thoughts on parenting. But I got asked the question, so I answered it.
[01:47:23] And I'm going to leave it at that.
[01:47:25] Yeah, that's, and so much has to do with their environment. So where each kid, like, let's, if you get four kids, right? The first kid coming, you know, coming into the world and boom.
[01:47:39] Yeah, the first born, the psychology and all this stuff. And I'm not even saying that sir, I'm not going to go into the psychology part of it. I'm just saying boom, that's a different experience all together.
[01:47:48] Being the second you had the same thing. He has that one kid and then all these little kids behind him. You know, so it's just you just ought to write out the gate you're a different person.
[01:47:55] You know, so that's where you're going to see all these crazy different personalities. We were raised in the same house, same parents, my parents were the same the whole time, but just starting out. It's like, you ever see prices right, they game.
[01:48:09] Or the game show prices right. I'm rolled school, Bob Barker. I think it's somebody else now.
[01:48:13] There's a game called Plinkle and it's this, this is so long. Exploding. It's a little Plinkle where it's like this board right and at the end it's are these little slots and you drop this kind of this it's not a ball. It's like a little pocket kind of good, but I get the image.
[01:48:31] It's like these pins. So it goes, it randomly just go, made it go through this one and you can kind of forget if you can control it or not.
[01:48:39] Yeah, so as a parent you control the board, but there's so many different little things that it can hit and go this way. So if you're consistent and just consistently pushing on direction it'll tend to go but then all the sub all these other factors are in play that you can't control.
[01:48:53] So it's eventually that's how it is and that's true. How you say you can't just shape exactly who you want to be in Plinkle. You don't say, hey, I'm going to get it in that little slot right there and then he goes there every time.
[01:49:03] It's really hard to do that. Played Go Game. I'm telling you, play it Go You look into it. Same thing. It's exactly Plinkle parenting. Same thing.
[01:49:11] This is a jockel podcast. Plinkle boards on there.
[01:49:14] See now you've gone too far.
[01:49:17] All right. Next question. Be careful with your kids as all I'm saying.
[01:49:21] Careful with your kids. Give them the broad guidance.
[01:49:24] Yeah.
[01:49:25] That's what you want to give them. Why health matters? Why education matters? Why respect matters? Why creativity matters?
[01:49:31] Let them understand why so that they can make their own decisions because they are their own people.
[01:49:38] Let's true story. Next question.
[01:49:41] So what do you think about CrossFit?
[01:49:44] Seems you do a lot of the same movements and workouts games.
[01:49:49] So CrossFit. I think CrossFit is a solid base for things.
[01:49:57] I also think that CrossFit actually deserves a pretty good amount of credit for getting the general populace of the world moving in the right direction when it comes to fitness.
[01:50:08] I've been doing CrossFit type stuff before there was such a thing as CrossFit.
[01:50:15] I mean the movements that you use in CrossFit are movements that event anything new, right?
[01:50:22] But they did reintroduce kind of like the Gracie family to be honest with you.
[01:50:29] Both the Gracie family and CrossFit, in my opinion, are responsible for really a paradigm shift in those two arenas.
[01:50:37] They are renafitness and the arena of martial arts.
[01:50:40] If you look at martial arts in the 70s and the 80s, what was it?
[01:50:46] It was told. It was karate. It was kung fu. It was Ikedo. It was traditional martial arts.
[01:50:53] It was not full contact sparring. It was just radically different than what it is now.
[01:51:00] And that came from the Gracie family who created the UFC and broadcast it and got the information out there and spread the word of jujitsu, which part of jujitsu.
[01:51:11] And part of the UFC is that you have to learn to wrestle and you have to learn to strike. So that all kind of came afterwards.
[01:51:16] But it's all related to the initial, the initial birth of the UFC and Gracie jujitsu.
[01:51:25] And that's the same thing in my opinion with CrossFit. CrossFit again, where people doing Olympic lifting years ago, yes, they were.
[01:51:34] But it's a very small. If you look at the martial arts schools and the 70s, look at fitness places in the 70s and 80s, it was those weird machines and aerobic stuff.
[01:51:47] And the thing that women would tie around their stomachs and would shake them, I mean, just all kinds of bizarre stuff.
[01:51:55] And that's just stuff that was just ineffective. And so I think CrossFit deserves credit for spreading, you know, the knowledge of squatting and clean in jerks and pull ups and muscle ups and all those things.
[01:52:17] And so, you know, again, like I said, it's you've got, there were decathletes before CrossFit.
[01:52:25] There were Olympic lift, there was gymnasts before CrossFit. And those people were incredibly fit.
[01:52:30] But CrossFit popularized those activities and those exercises more than anybody else was able to.
[01:52:38] I mean, CrossFit is popular. And jujitsu is popular.
[01:52:43] I mean, if you look at the number of jujitsu schools in CrossFit boxes in the country, they're probably the same growth pattern.
[01:52:51] So, I definitely give CrossFit credit for bringing that kind of well balanced fitness to the forefront.
[01:52:59] And I think the programming, you know, is fine. For me, it's a little bit too random. I like stuff to be a little bit more schedule.
[01:53:08] I guess you could say, and sometimes I need more volume than what they have.
[01:53:13] And I think you need more focus to get really good at some things. You need to, you need to do a more often than the the the straight CrossFit would prescribe.
[01:53:23] I think it, you know, now people realize, you know, for a while they kind of held the line of like, no, all you need to do is what it says to do on the CrossFit workout of the day.
[01:53:32] Just like in the beginning, jujitsu, Gracie jujitsu said, all you need to do is just do Gracie jujitsu.
[01:53:39] And clearly both those attitudes are wrong. You know, what you really need to do is get that base and then open your mind, open your mind up.
[01:53:50] And you get to know yourself what your, you get to know your own physicality after a while.
[01:53:57] And then you know what your weaknesses are and you know what hurts you and you know what you can do more of and you know what you should do less of.
[01:54:04] So I think that as a base, you know, like if someone just randomly says, you know, hey, I never worked out before what should I do.
[01:54:12] I think CrossFit is a fine place to point them. You know, there's some other really good stuff out there, but you know, if you, it CrossFit's a good one.
[01:54:20] And I think it's a good starting point. It's going to teach you the basics of squats and pull ups and tips.
[01:54:24] And there's going to be a million people that are going to say, they don't really teach you Olympic lifting properly.
[01:54:28] And you need to learn better form. I get it, right? Don't. If you want to learn to be an Olympic lifter, CrossFit is not going to be the best place to learn to be an Olympic lifter.
[01:54:36] You need to go get an Olympic lifting coach.
[01:54:38] If you want to be a great gymnast, you need to get a gymnast, excote.
[01:54:42] But if you want an introduction to stuff, a basic introduction, then I think it's a solid, and again, I think you need to give it credit for what it did.
[01:54:51] And then most importantly, you need to keep an open mind that things change and you will, you have to change.
[01:55:02] So we all have to change and adapt and grow and evolve such that you can become better. So that's my opinion.
[01:55:09] Yeah, the CrossFit undeniably, what it did is,
[01:55:13] it took working out in some CrossFit workouts can be hard. I did CrossFit for a little bit, and even for someone who's like, in pretty good shape, like they can be hard.
[01:55:23] And what an element of CrossFit that I'm not sure if this was intended from the beginning, but it got this way quick is kind of the group or the environment, you know.
[01:55:37] So what it did was it turned it into act now, it's a sport, it's a straight up sport now. And really all it is is exercising.
[01:55:46] The sport of exercising, being who the guy who wins the CrossFit games, what's he called the fitness guy.
[01:55:52] So it brought fitness into this more of an activity to do rather than, okay, you got to do this short, you got to work out,
[01:56:01] it made it into like an activity, like boom, and not just, okay, I'm going to go do some easy stuff with, you know, the girls on the weekend. It's, it's for real, you know, like, a hard workout,
[01:56:10] and to put you through, you get in a group and across with situation, and they're going to be yelling supporting you, and it's way easier to stick with a workout program when you have people supporting you.
[01:56:21] And they support you, like, for real support you. They're yelling at you, they're making a fish off all this stuff.
[01:56:26] And you're way more likely to achieve success rather than someone's like, oh, here, you're going to make it to the gym today. Oh, yeah, maybe maybe not, or whatever.
[01:56:32] And they give you good guidance. So again, it made it made fitness, what I'm, quote, fitness be popular, you know, this is cool thing, you know, and a community, you know, in a way that I don't, it's,
[01:56:45] I mean, like you said, there's, there was already some of these, but they're like, okay, body building and, you know,
[01:56:51] maybe some aerobics, but it didn't have that sense of community like, yeah, it's so much more part. I mean, you look at a company like Rogue Fitness.
[01:56:58] Yeah, I mean, they didn't exist, I don't know, five years ago, but like, I, my old squat rack thing was ancient, right?
[01:57:06] And it was kind of hard to get back in the day, you want to squat rack now boom,
[01:57:10] broke fitness is a boom, oh, there you go. Yeah, they're going to send it to you. It's going to show up at your house in three days and they're selling hundreds of thousands of them. I'm sure.
[01:57:21] And why is that? They're selling rings. They're selling boxes for boxes of bumper plates.
[01:57:26] You used to be, you'd never see them. Like, I had bumper plates in the, why were I grew up, you know, and there was, you know, two guys that would actually Olympic left and you go, oh, wow, that's cool, but never in the gym. Now you go to, almost any gym now. No, no,
[01:57:43] I almost, I shouldn't say that because the 24 hour fitness type global gyms. Oh, do that. Oh, yeah, I haven't been in one of the long time. It's kind of you. Yeah, yeah, it's all over all of the earth.
[01:57:56] And there's over here in the, I still have 24 minutes, finish membership. I'll go there, you know, from time to time. Yeah, all of them have straight up, you know, protein, Greg. Yeah.
[01:58:07] He's a trainer and he's at the, the Balbo and one big full on bread. You want to get a career cross been on you can go to 24 hours and it's worth more crowded.
[01:58:15] It's different, the culture is different, which is a big part of CrossFit as well, but facility wise. Oh, yeah, bumpers all up in there. Yeah, all that too. That's, that's all thanks across. Right. Yeah, that's exactly your point. Yeah, good deal.
[01:58:31] Mm. Next question. Any tips on learning about indirect communication would be handy for business or parenting.
[01:58:41] Got another parent. I got a million parenting questions. Yeah, see in a more voice. And like I was saying that that's kind of why you can't really just talk about some because there's actually, if you want to quantify the parenting questions is infinity question.
[01:58:55] There's no end to the parenting question. Because it's just so ambiguous. I don't even know. I mean, really what line is the bottom line is parenting is leadership. So the principles can be applied.
[01:59:05] Yeah, but there are some dynamics there and they're all in your own head. Yeah. That's where they are. They're in your own head is apparent. They're this emotional thing that you have stronger than you have it for any other person you're ever going to work with. And that is, you know, you want them to succeed more than anybody else.
[01:59:23] Yeah, you want them to succeed. You want them to be better. You want them to do better. You're all those things. And that's the dynamic that makes it tricky.
[01:59:31] And then there's this weird dynamic too if the way they look at you and they either want to impress you or they want to rebel against you or they see you as being imposing on them. So there's just the other dynamics within the leadership.
[01:59:44] And you can't really define that or that are very challenging. And again, I can't judge whether I've been successful yet because I only have my oldest daughter is 16, youngest daughter is six.
[01:59:58] And then I have a daughter and another daughter, some of the middle. And then I know that they're specific mistakes that I have made.
[02:00:04] And I, you know, then mistakes like what does that mean? You know, I mean, of course, you know, mistakes if you go too extreme, but because really success or I don't say success, but really driven people people who are just, you know how you get somebody who's just driven.
[02:00:21] But it's usually, usually because some need, some during development, wasn't fulfilled. And I'm not saying, and you can't even say it's a bad thing because as a result, they're driven because psychologically it's like a need that needs to be fulfilled. So since that little cup
[02:00:41] means kind of empty a little bit, they're trying to fill it with all these other things because life went on new skills, new developments, new situations. And they're still trying to fill that little psychological cup and it's manifesting in this other way, you know, through business through, you know, being maybe seal Gigi to champion, you know, whatever it may be, but typically, and I'm saying every single time, I'm sure there's exceptions or maybe there's not exceptions. I don't know, but nonetheless, you can usually find
[02:01:10] some need that went on fulfilled somewhere for people who are super driven. So if you made a mistake parenting, is was that really a mistake? You know, in that kind of situation? So like, the point is it's so ambiguous, you know, you think you've been like, what is a successful parent?
[02:01:27] Yeah, I mean, unless my point is that's why I don't want to talk to people about parenting because I don't know, I don't feel like an authority on it, that should be giving instruction.
[02:01:37] Yeah, it's hard to even how can you be? I mean, I think I'm doing an okay job. Well, yeah, so you figure if they're not in jail or super addicted to like drugs or something like this or then you can say, okay, I'm, I think I think in my opinion, I'm within the compilience of being a successful.
[02:01:55] And you know what since we're talking about it, you see some kids, I've known kids, you know, kids I grew up with with nice parents and all that and they go off the rails. And that's really skinned you. You do blame the parents. I mean, I don't know.
[02:02:11] Oh, in my opinion, it's because of the parents. Yes, but that's not the question of do you blame the parents? I don't know. We got a question on here about a nature of nurture. So I'm going to talk about that here in a minute, but indirect communication. Let's get back to this. So in direct communication is obviously extremely powerful. It's also tricky to pull off.
[02:02:31] Because you can't let your emotions show when you can't just speak your mind. You have to think about what you're going to say. You have to think about how it will be received and understood by the person or by the people that you're talking to.
[02:02:49] You've got to put yourself into their shoes and hear it from their perspective and that's really hard to do. And the other piece about this, another piece to think about if you're trying to improve your indirect communication, go into your conversations with a goal.
[02:03:08] Not just a goal of the conversation itself, but a strategic goal of what you're trying to accomplish, a commander's intent. Why are you having this conversation? What is the end game?
[02:03:23] What are you trying to make happen? Keep that in mind as you talk to this person or this group of people and then read and react to see how you're saying and how much what you're saying is leading to the end state that you're looking for.
[02:03:39] Because sometimes we just think about the conversation itself and the conversation itself doesn't matter. What are you trying to do in the end state? It's like we talked about before a few podcasts ago. The argument that you're having, whether you're right or whether you're wrong, doesn't matter. What matters is the end state where you're trying to get this to be. How are you trying to influence this person?
[02:04:03] Remember that the best way to win is for your opponent to not even realize that there's a debate. That's the best way to win.
[02:04:13] And you get some people instinctively counter everything that you say. They have a response, they have a thing, they've got a counter everything that you say. Don't do that. If you want to work on your indirect communication skills, absorb what they're saying.
[02:04:33] The best way to get better at indirect communication is to listen. Listen, not talk but listen. And as a matter of fact, when you sit back and you let people talk, you're progressing so much because most people don't want to listen. Most people want to run their mouths.
[02:04:57] And if you ever find yourself running your mouth, you should put yourself in check because you're given away too much information.
[02:05:05] And so you want to listen. You want to try to actually understand what they're saying. And here's another good one. If you don't understand what they're saying, just ask them to explain it again.
[02:05:19] Can you explain that to me again? I don't understand. What that implies that I want to understand. It implies that I'm doing my best to understand. It implies that if I don't understand, I'm going to be frank enough with you to tell you that is how you get better at indirect communication.
[02:05:37] The more you listen to somebody, the better you understand their position. And when you know where someone's position is, the better you can maneuver onto that position.
[02:05:51] The better you can get to a flank, the better you can make adaptations.
[02:05:56] The better tactics you have to win.
[02:06:05] And that's how you get better at indirect communication.
[02:06:09] Yeah, you mentioned how you don't, like if you don't listen and you know how you failed to put yourself in the other person's shoes, right?
[02:06:21] This thing called the curse of knowledge, right? So let's say I'm this high level CEO.
[02:06:26] Sometimes we tend to forget how it is to not be the high level CEO or how it, we forget how it is to not know everything we know. That's a curse of knowledge. Like the knowledge basically blocks you from identifying someone who doesn't know.
[02:06:40] So and that goes into these weird details. When you get enough knowledge, certain significant knowledge becomes common sense to you. But meanwhile, everyone else, it's not. So you just habitually or unconsciously, you might skip over it.
[02:06:56] Meanwhile, they don't really understand and then you're just like, I don't know what I'm doing wrong kind of thing.
[02:07:01] I'll go to the curse of knowledge.
[02:07:03] You gotta watch out for that.
[02:07:04] Gotta watch out for the curse of knowledge, yes.
[02:07:09] I think that's a good time for one more.
[02:07:11] One more last question.
[02:07:13] Juckle.
[02:07:15] What is more important in being successful at achieving your goals?
[02:07:19] Nature or nurture?
[02:07:22] Okay. So this is the classic question of nature versus nurture.
[02:07:30] And in my opinion, it's neither.
[02:07:37] And my whole life, I've seen people from every different strata.
[02:07:45] In the sealed teams, you had everybody had Ivy League kids with a silver spoon and you had former gang bangers and hood rats.
[02:07:54] And at the same time, you had prep school kids and kids from blue collar families and everybody in between.
[02:08:01] There was kids with the big strong families that were really, really close.
[02:08:08] And you had kids with no families.
[02:08:10] Kids that were pampered and kids that were abused.
[02:08:13] Everything. We had everything.
[02:08:15] And in all of those different groups, there were some people that were successful and got the job done and some people that were unsuccessful and couldn't get it done.
[02:08:27] And in working with businesses now, I see the same thing.
[02:08:31] People from every walk of life from the bottom to the top.
[02:08:35] And I've seen every type of those different types of people be successful.
[02:08:41] So to me, it's not about nature or nurture.
[02:08:47] It's about choice.
[02:08:51] The people that are successful decide they are going to be successful.
[02:08:57] They make that choice.
[02:09:00] And they make other choices.
[02:09:02] They decide to study hard.
[02:09:04] They choose to work hard.
[02:09:06] They choose to be the first person to get to work and the last person to go home.
[02:09:13] They choose to take on the hard jobs and take on the challenges.
[02:09:20] They decide they're going to lead when no one else will.
[02:09:27] They choose who they're going to hang around with and be associated with.
[02:09:33] And they choose who they're going to emulate.
[02:09:39] These people choose to become who they want to become.
[02:09:45] They aren't inhibited by nature or nurture.
[02:09:50] They overcome both.
[02:09:55] And I'll tell you something else.
[02:09:57] It's never too late to make that choice.
[02:10:00] You're never too old to decide where you're going to focus your efforts.
[02:10:05] And push to make the most out of every situation.
[02:10:13] So to me, it's not about what you've been through and where you were.
[02:10:26] It's about where you're going.
[02:10:31] And it's about the choices that you make.
[02:10:34] It's about choosing.
[02:10:37] Choose to make yourself smarter and stronger and healthier.
[02:10:42] Choose to work out and study and eat good food and keep your mind clean.
[02:10:54] Don't let nature or nurture make you.
[02:11:04] Choose to make yourself.
[02:11:11] Choose to work out and study and study.
[02:11:16] I think that's all I've got for tonight.
[02:11:21] So, tell you, troopers out there on the front lines of the battlefield,
[02:11:29] on the front lines of life.
[02:11:33] Thanks for joining us in this conversation.
[02:11:36] Thanks for listening and subscribing and go crank out or review on iTunes.
[02:11:40] Or pin it to your social media, share it.
[02:11:45] Let everybody know that we are here.
[02:11:50] And we are moving forward together into the fray.
[02:12:01] And tell them all that we are not scared of the dark.
[02:12:09] Because we are here and we are bringing the light.
[02:12:15] Thanks for connecting with us through the interwebs.
[02:12:19] And if you don't know on Twitter,
[02:12:24] at Jocco Willink and Echo is at Echo Charles.
[02:12:29] We also have the Facy book.
[02:12:33] And with that, what is it? Slash Jocco Willink?
[02:12:38] The whole way, your...
[02:12:40] Yeah, I don't know.
[02:12:42] I'm Jocco Willink.
[02:12:44] And then we have the podcast one.
[02:12:46] Right, that's Facebook.com slash Jocco podcast.
[02:12:49] There you go.
[02:12:51] And get on there, give us some feedback, give us some questions.
[02:12:55] Let us know what you think of what's going on here.
[02:12:59] And then we got companies that support us, support them.
[02:13:05] It's true.
[02:13:06] For the Facebook thing too, we don't really post that much on there.
[02:13:10] But what we do post and will post is going to be quality stuff.
[02:13:14] It won't be just like, you know, just a bunch of stuff for quantity content.
[02:13:20] Yeah, I haven't quite got down my system.
[02:13:22] I've definitely, we went every question that is posted on either of the Facebooks.
[02:13:28] I am definitely taking in and putting in into the question bank.
[02:13:32] It doesn't mean it's going to get answered on the podcast because we don't have time to answer
[02:13:36] thousands of questions.
[02:13:37] Yeah.
[02:13:38] But I'm definitely looking at it.
[02:13:39] I'm reading it.
[02:13:40] Sometimes if I see a trend of the same question, boom, I see it four, five, six times.
[02:13:47] Unless it's about parenting.
[02:13:49] But if I see something four or five times, hey, I'm going to throw it on there.
[02:13:55] And we'll talk about it.
[02:13:59] Some of my just answer because I know hey, you know what no one cares about this question.
[02:14:02] But you, whoever you are, somebody's going to give you a short answer or maybe it's a long answer.
[02:14:07] And so yeah, if you get on there, I'm looking at it.
[02:14:11] I haven't quite got down my system for Facebook yet.
[02:14:14] I only just recently am starting to figure it out.
[02:14:18] The different parts of it because I've never used it before.
[02:14:21] And I didn't use it that actively.
[02:14:23] So I'm trying to get better at it.
[02:14:25] But that's why Twitter is really easy for me.
[02:14:27] It's like pretty straightforward.
[02:14:28] Yeah, it's very straightforward.
[02:14:29] Yeah, yeah, Facebook in Facebook's always changing as well.
[02:14:32] But in regards to them, like, because what you do is like Twitter, you just like the page, right?
[02:14:38] It's like follow me like you did follows.
[02:14:40] But some pages menu, you follow it.
[02:14:43] And then it's a bunch of stuff that it's like, and this is starting to be not that relevant.
[02:14:47] Maybe once a week I'll see some relevant stuff.
[02:14:49] So what I'm going to do is like anything I post is going to be very relevant or even like,
[02:14:56] you know, like a, like a, you know, how we record before we start recording,
[02:15:00] I might post some deleted scenes.
[02:15:03] Oh, delete scenes.
[02:15:04] Yeah, you were.
[02:15:05] Does everyone sit a while.
[02:15:06] So, you know, no harm no file if you just like it.
[02:15:08] Even if you don't want to answer a question or ask question.
[02:15:11] But please ask a question.
[02:15:12] Yeah, and I'm trying to get to respond to some of the comments.
[02:15:15] You know what I mean?
[02:15:16] Yeah.
[02:15:16] Try and get on there every once in a while.
[02:15:17] Right.
[02:15:18] Yeah, I think the Twitter is, is easier.
[02:15:21] Just like how you said because it's just super simple.
[02:15:23] Boom.
[02:15:23] Boom.
[02:15:23] Boom.
[02:15:23] Boom.
[02:15:24] Yeah.
[02:15:24] But either way, they're both great.
[02:15:26] On it.com slash jocco.
[02:15:28] That's where you get your 10% off your supplements and their, their supplements are so good, man.
[02:15:34] And I'm not super into supplements.
[02:15:37] That's a thing.
[02:15:38] But the ones that I take and you, it's hard to tell the difference a lot of times between
[02:15:43] brands, but you can tell the difference with these brands.
[02:15:46] And like the worry bar, for example, in my opinion, that's one of the most genius things.
[02:15:52] So many things.
[02:15:53] It's like beef jerky.
[02:15:54] I remember when beef jerky, or not when it came out of it.
[02:15:57] No, not even close.
[02:15:58] But when you saw beef jerky as someone who's into protein, you know, when you're,
[02:16:02] I don't know, when I turn like 15, 16, started like in beef jerky was
[02:16:05] Dang that is dope.
[02:16:06] We're in the embedded that.
[02:16:07] We're in the embedded that.
[02:16:07] I feel all the time.
[02:16:08] Yeah.
[02:16:09] So consider the warrior bar is like,
[02:16:11] Yeah, way better.
[02:16:12] It's like beef jerky, but.
[02:16:14] But it's super awesome.
[02:16:17] Anyway, so anyway, that my point is the stuff on it is is good.
[02:16:20] And you get 10% off.
[02:16:22] So that's like a no brainer.
[02:16:23] Yeah, on it.com slash jacquo.
[02:16:25] There you go.
[02:16:26] And then the Amazon click through you go to the podcast website, which is
[02:16:30] jacqupodcast.com or jacquo store.com, either one.
[02:16:33] And you click through to the Amazon before you do shopping.
[02:16:36] And you can passively support.
[02:16:38] Well, slightly.
[02:16:39] Same.
[02:16:40] Same.
[02:16:40] Same.
[02:16:40] I actively pretty bad.
[02:16:42] Does it cost you a click?
[02:16:43] Yeah, exactly.
[02:16:44] And then a lot of people asked for the donation link.
[02:16:47] And that's on jacqupodcast.com to paypal.
[02:16:49] Yeah, to see we use paypal, it was simple.
[02:16:52] But it's on there nonetheless.
[02:16:54] And you know, for everyone that does that man, it's so cool to be like,
[02:16:58] It's kind of just liked what you're saying.
[02:17:00] And he was like, here's somebody.
[02:17:02] That is.
[02:17:03] That's it.
[02:17:04] That's it.
[02:17:04] That's how we play.
[02:17:05] I'll blow it away.
[02:17:06] Oh, no way.
[02:17:06] Oh, no way.
[02:17:06] Oh, no way.
[02:17:06] Oh, no way.
[02:17:07] Oh, no way.
[02:17:07] Oh, no way.
[02:17:08] Oh, no way.
[02:17:09] Oh, no way.
[02:17:09] Oh, no way.
[02:17:10] Oh, no way.
[02:17:10] Oh, no way.
[02:17:10] Oh, no way.
[02:17:13] Oh, no way.
[02:17:14] Oh, no way.
[02:17:15] Go to the trailer.
[02:17:18] Get a shirt on jacquo store.com.
[02:17:19] It's real.
[02:17:20] One has jacquo's head on it with the word good backwards.
[02:17:20] So when you look in the mirror, it tells you good.
[02:17:22] This is going bad.
[02:17:23] It's always so good.
[02:17:24] It comes right.
[02:17:25] There you go.
[02:17:26] You've been in a real.
[02:17:27] It's Mr. Grizzen mugs as well.
[02:17:28] Anyway, there it is.
[02:17:29] And there they are.
[02:17:30] Nice.
[02:17:31] And also, if you want some more of this stuff,
[02:17:33] I reference it several times tonight, but buddy of mine.
[02:17:38] it's available in a hardcover, Kindle or audiobook.
[02:17:42] And we actually read the audiobook, so if you want to hear us talk
[02:17:47] and more, there's eight hours you can get yourself into
[02:17:51] war stories and leadership and it's good times and finally, and most importantly,
[02:18:02] thanks for making the choice. The choice to make yourself better, faster,
[02:18:09] stronger, smarter, healthier, and of course, thanks to everyone
[02:18:16] for making the choice to get up, get going, get aggressive, and get after it.
[02:18:29] So until next time, this is Jocco and Echo.
[02:18:34] Out.