Jocko Podcast 197 w/ Andrew Paul: Truppenfuhrung. Time, History, and Knowledge, are All Connected

2019-10-03T09:17:43Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:06:57 - Truppenfuhrung. Leading Troops. 1:52:04 - Closing thoughts and take-aways. 1:53:05 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collection... All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/joc... Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ 2:06:30 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

what you can step up and win And how about when if you can know all the right things to do but if you lack the fortitude and discipline To do it this you're it does like how many doctors know all the right things about health and yet maybe are not in great shape So they know the things to do but they don't do this as I'm saying kind of thing Maybe don't see this very often anymore, but like doctors that smoke Well now I guess you just get doctors that eat crap right horrible, There's a reason why the guys in Vietnam taught us to do that Because as long as you know what your fields of firearm you can you can go hot if you're in an L shaped Ambush or you're in an L shaped assault the minute I put people You know whether it's 270 degrees around the target or 360 degrees I can't I now I have to worry about my backdrop and it's a real problem and you know what you can get away with those You can get away with enveloping a target all day long as long as there's no shooting but the minute the enemy starts shooting It's a problem So there are ways to cover exits from an L You extend that a little bit you can put some overwatches in But it is a real problem to think that you're gonna develop a target in a small you know Let's say with with direct fire weapons Company size or smaller. And It might be the worst decision sometimes no decision while I watch things develop You might be the right call but let's be clear no decision is a decision What I've been trying to teach people lately Is like a standard operating procedure for when you don't know what to do Here's the standard operating procedure for when you don't know what to do you Look at what the situation where you take you did that you take a step back you look at what's unfolding Then you make the smallest Decision in the area that you guess is the right direction to move I was just reading a note from a friend of mine A team guy who's who's grandfather was in World War II still life gonna get him on the podcast and When he did the island campaign And then went into like Japan surrender after the bombs and the Japanese were told on your gun in placements put a white flag Like so Americans were sailing in like the wars over sailing in I think it was into like I don't use it is into some big port Japan and When he was sailing in there was just white flags everywhere Everywhere and he was looking around he said it he said it literally looked like snow I'm wired like call a corny, but you know high-landered like You know how you would absorb like the strength of like that's kind of kind of like Well, you know HR and how do I can possibly you have to still find a way to do that appropriately because HR doesn't have anything to do with having discipline process procedure You know no, no, I'm talking about getting in and knowing what's going on with your people and in their life and And doing hard things together, you know because I think what people call you got to show up on time do this part of your job We've learned that over and over again In strany us combat troops are soon worn out and quickly used up The forces must receive timely reinforcements in leaders men animals battle needs and War materials of all kinds Boys are gonna get worn out after a while the mission and the situation form the basis of action The mission and the situation form the basis of action the mission designates the objective to be a chain to be attained The leader must never forget his mission a mission which indicates several tasks easily Deverts from the main exit objective so once again prioritize next year If you've got a bunch of different things you're not gonna achieve the main objective At a situation recently Where people were wearing some of their teammates out and was talking to this company about how to do this so I learned that very early What you don't you don't and it was great for me because that was another thing that initially taught me Hey, you got your standard operating procedures you got two squads You know you got two squads in a pertinent cool one is base one is assault don't pull the heavy weapons into the base force Because you might need them well, I think and two it's it's if the enemy In the in their he's saying well the enemy is is fixed right you have it it presumes The frontal assault like that's the main effort and and but if that shifts if they become wise to the flanking maneuver and then I'm gonna reassess yes and guess what if it's the wrong decision Now you know that if it's the wrong direction you just you hit a wall there now you just figured that out Where when you made no decision you still you don't you still know which way to go that's right 360 degrees so when I say hey we're gonna go 90 degrees cool we take a step Overwatch we're about to bring online which is gonna be for Everyone in the military because We the demand is so high and look you're in special operations great you got some you know you've got great leadership experience You know who else has great leadership experience In for triple tune commander right on infantry platoon sergeant That's That's Rommel so back was executed Um, but like I said his character obviously was a little bit you know what he had some some good character traits stood up for what he believed in and the fact that this book Trooping through them The fact that this book Is Has been so widely copied the Americans use something based on of the brits you something based the German still use something based on it Really kind of reveals his leadership knowledge so with that we'll go to the book The book Trooping through them am I getting better at saying that sounds good to me trooping for them All right kicks off with the introduction the introduction starts with The conduct of war is an art depending upon free creative activity Scientifically grounded is that the way you think of it. And it's funny because a lot of times people you know what's what you know they asked this question almost like a rhetorical question like But what is a leader you know, but what really is leader there you go yeah, we just just read it I'm gonna take an extra Half hour for lunch every day if that's that's no people don't even want to do that Like people might think they want to do that people might think they want to do that, but they don't want to do that No, they don't want to do that They don't want to do that they want to get after it and that's our job as leaders is to set that bar and to set it even a little bit higher so there's the origination of smieck It's you know it comes from the troop in fear That's where we got good man how this book has it has escaped Like my junior officer training you know what I mean like that's what we're trying to solve right now

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 197 with Andrew Paul and me, Jockel willing. Good evening Andrew. Good evening
[00:00:08] For those of you that don't know Andrew Andrew
[00:00:11] What's one of my brothers from task unit? Bruser. He's now with us at echelon front and if you haven't heard podcast
[00:00:19] Number 42 that's when Andrew came on and
[00:00:24] talked about his experiences
[00:00:26] But we're not really interviewing Andrew today. He's just filling in for echel Charles
[00:00:33] Who's on vacation again?
[00:00:37] Vacation. Yeah, so that's why Andrew's here. So I have someone to talk to
[00:00:43] Otherwise it gets lonely in the podcast room
[00:00:46] All right
[00:00:48] He've heard me say before if you know the way Broadway you see it and all things that's what
[00:00:52] A little quote from Musashi
[00:00:57] But beyond that when you pull the thread on things
[00:01:03] When you dig down and you dig in
[00:01:08] You find that things are are
[00:01:11] Not just similar. They're actually connected. There's a thread that runs through time and through history
[00:01:18] And there's a thread that runs through
[00:01:21] knowledge
[00:01:22] Knowledge itself and when you start connecting things you understand them better so there's some I see them all the time
[00:01:30] In about face my
[00:01:32] favorite book
[00:01:34] Colonel David Hacworth talks about one of his mentors
[00:01:38] The guy he served with and the guy named Glover Johns
[00:01:42] Who was a officer in the army who wrote a book that we covered on this podcast called the clay pigeons and St. Lo
[00:01:48] How how crazy is that connection? I had John Stryker, my run and
[00:01:55] When when he was on in one of his books he was talking about Elden Boswell a
[00:02:02] Sog operator
[00:02:04] That actually was a mentor to one of my mentors in the seal teams
[00:02:10] To connection how crazy is that?
[00:02:13] What about the fact that I
[00:02:15] read about and admired
[00:02:18] Dick Winners
[00:02:20] Commander the second of the 506 the band of brothers and Europe
[00:02:25] And then in Ramani we worked with the first of the 506
[00:02:30] So these connections there just everywhere
[00:02:33] There's everywhere you look things are connected now one of my favorite old field manuals is called FM
[00:02:41] 100 attack five field service regulations
[00:02:44] It was issued by the Department of War on May 22nd, 1941 and it's an awesome
[00:02:53] Manual all kinds of information and I'm gonna cover it on the podcast, but the thing is the FM 100 attack five
[00:03:02] is not
[00:03:03] the most original document that I've ever seen and
[00:03:07] I've talked about the roots of maneuver warfare in fact we covered a book called maneuver warfare
[00:03:15] and the
[00:03:17] influence of the Prussian armies defeated the battle agenda
[00:03:21] You got general sharn horse and his
[00:03:24] influence on the Prussian
[00:03:27] Military and thereby the German military well what's interesting is FM 100 attack five again
[00:03:32] This is an American field service regulations an American field manual it was so
[00:03:39] plagiarized it completely plagiarized from another document and this document
[00:03:47] is called
[00:03:49] Troopinfrug, which is my attempt at German Troopinfrug
[00:03:54] which basically translates to
[00:03:57] leading troops and it was first published in
[00:04:04] 1933
[00:04:06] So we're talking about Nazi Germany and it was prepared by
[00:04:12] by a group of people a group of military men, but the leader of that group of military men was a guy named Colonel General
[00:04:20] Ludwig Beck
[00:04:23] now
[00:04:25] Nazi's obviously are a scourge to humanity
[00:04:30] But what's interesting is this guy General Beck was
[00:04:35] not a fan of the Nazis he wasn't really a fan of Hitler in fact
[00:04:40] He was eventually executed by the Nazis because he's one of the guys that coordinated and tried to
[00:04:49] Assassnate Hitler he's one of those guys and they figured it out and they assassinated him so
[00:04:57] He had some good character
[00:05:01] And he had of outstanding military sense he was educated kind of like the traditional
[00:05:07] Prussian military education served as a staff officer in World War I
[00:05:12] He was he he objected
[00:05:15] staunchly to the the
[00:05:20] Offence of Germany starting World War II he did not want to go and fight he realized that it was gonna be a problem
[00:05:28] And again he resigned in protest actually he resigned in protesting he tried to get a bunch of other people to resign
[00:05:35] and
[00:05:37] You know they kind of covered it up and made him walk away
[00:05:40] Then like I said eventually he tried to kill Hitler he tried to plot the kill Hitler in it and I think it was rumble
[00:05:47] Rommel was saying because rummel also participated in the attempt of assassination of
[00:05:53] Hitler which is why he got killed
[00:05:56] We'll go into that someday on the podcast. I'm sure they came to him and said hey
[00:06:02] You can come with us now and you'll die a hero
[00:06:06] Well, you have to kill yourself, but you know we won't say anything or we're gonna send you to court and make you a
[00:06:13] You know
[00:06:14] A public scapegoat for everything that's going wrong in Germany and he chose the former went out in the woods
[00:06:20] Said goodbye to his family went out in the woods and killed himself. That's
[00:06:25] That's Rommel so back was executed
[00:06:28] Um, but like I said his character obviously was a little bit you know what he had some some good character traits stood up for what he believed in and the fact that this book
[00:06:40] Trooping through them
[00:06:43] The fact that this book
[00:06:45] Is
[00:06:46] Has been so widely copied the Americans use something based on of the brits you something based the German still use something based on it
[00:06:52] Really kind of reveals his leadership knowledge so with that we'll go to the book
[00:07:00] The book Trooping through them am I getting better at saying that sounds good to me trooping for them
[00:07:07] All right kicks off with the introduction the introduction starts with
[00:07:14] The conduct of war is an art depending upon free creative activity
[00:07:18] Scientifically grounded is that the way you think of it. I love that definition out of the gate
[00:07:26] War is art
[00:07:29] Depending on free creative activity scientifically grounded
[00:07:34] It makes the highest demands on the personality boom. It makes that makes complete sense to me
[00:07:38] Yeah, I know it does
[00:07:40] That I think the first time I said that was with Tim Ferriss at some point and I said
[00:07:45] I said war is an exercise in creativity. That's what I said and here you have
[00:07:50] Where I subconsciously or consciously stole that from or just found that to be true. Yes, or just found that because I'm going to people say oh
[00:07:57] Well, you know get to be a robot to be a soldier. It's actually not natural you will you will be destroyed
[00:08:04] Next the conduct of war is based on continuous development. Oh
[00:08:07] Oh check new means of warfare call forth ever changing employment
[00:08:14] Their use must be anticipated their influence must be correctly estimated and quickly utilized
[00:08:19] situations in war are of unlimited variety
[00:08:23] They change often and suddenly and only rarely are from the first discernible
[00:08:30] Incalculable elements are often of great influence the independent will of the enemy is
[00:08:36] Pitted against ours
[00:08:41] The independent will of the enemy is pitted against ours friction and mistakes are of every day occurrence
[00:08:49] So this guy is out of the gate
[00:08:51] You know he he knows what he's talking about
[00:08:53] Everyone of these things just nails it but what's always interesting of course is that
[00:08:58] He's talking about war, but guess what it applies to everything you do in life because guess what everything in life
[00:09:06] Is gonna change it's unlimited variety
[00:09:10] It's a test of wills there's friction and mistakes that occur every day no matter what you're doing your business with your family no matter what you're doing
[00:09:17] You are you are going to experience this
[00:09:22] The teaching of the conduct of war cannot be concentrated
[00:09:25] Exhaustively in regulations
[00:09:29] The principles so
[00:09:31] Inunciated must be employed dependent upon the situation
[00:09:37] so
[00:09:39] Exhaustively you cannot you cannot focus exhaustively on regulations which again as you just pointed out and drew the
[00:09:46] That's what people think
[00:09:48] That oh you're in the military you just follow orders no
[00:09:52] You have to be able to think in fact if all you do is follow regulations you're wrong
[00:10:02] Simplicity of conduct
[00:10:06] Logically carry through will most surely attain the objective
[00:10:13] Yes
[00:10:14] war is the severeest test of spiritual and bodily strength in
[00:10:19] War character outways intellect
[00:10:25] Many stand forth on the field of battle who in peace would remain unnoticed
[00:10:30] That's an interesting
[00:10:32] Yeah, I didn't see that coming this intro. That's just I think what he's saying is
[00:10:43] That that person with the strong will that person with the strong character
[00:10:47] Amen, you can be a really smart person and be mentally weak
[00:10:52] All day long agreed discipline. Yes, so you can be super smart and when
[00:10:57] Things get crazy you're
[00:11:00] Shriveling up you're thinking too much right you're shrilling up in the corner
[00:11:04] Scared of what might happen where you if you're just a dude that has strong character
[00:11:09] Guess what you can step up and win
[00:11:11] And how about when if you can know all the right things to do but if you lack the fortitude and discipline
[00:11:18] To do it this you're it does like how many doctors know all the right things about health and yet maybe are not in great shape
[00:11:27] So they know the things to do but they don't do this as I'm saying kind of thing
[00:11:31] Maybe don't see this very often anymore, but like doctors that smoke
[00:11:35] Well now I guess you just get doctors that eat crap right horrible, so yes
[00:11:41] Same thing so that that strength of character
[00:11:47] Doesn't matter you can overwhelm the super smart dude over in the corner
[00:11:54] Next
[00:11:56] Armies as well as lesser units demand lead and by the way if you can tell my reading is kind of stillted you know because
[00:12:04] It's translation so there's some weird words some weird orders of words that don't quite flow
[00:12:12] Which is why I was gonna read the the American manual 100-55 first
[00:12:17] But no I decided to do this one first because it's more challenging. Well, it's funny though
[00:12:20] I when as you've been reading this already I haven't thinking wow this is so concisely written and the words are so carefully chosen
[00:12:27] And then I thought wait this is was this no wasn't written in English was written in German yet it's translated so well
[00:12:33] Yeah, the American one
[00:12:35] I'm gonna do that one probably next, but it's it's even more
[00:12:39] Like to the point
[00:12:41] So
[00:12:42] But you gotta know where you gotta know where connections come from
[00:12:44] I agree you gotta all back. Yeah, yeah, so continuing on armies as well as lesser units demand of leaders good
[00:12:51] Judgment here's what leaders need good judgment clear thinking and far seeing leaders with independence and decisive
[00:12:58] Resolution leaders with perseverance and energy
[00:13:02] Leaders not emotionally moved by the varying fortunes of war
[00:13:07] Leaders with a high sense of responsibility
[00:13:09] Yeah, it's not everything I talk about
[00:13:15] They'll decentralize command here. Yeah decentralized command. Oh high sense of responsibility
[00:13:19] I think we might call that extreme ownership right
[00:13:23] Unemotionally moved
[00:13:25] Not emotionally moved by the varying fortunes of war detach
[00:13:29] So yeah, this this is just epic it's great
[00:13:33] The officer is a leader and a teacher besides his knowledge of men and his sense of justice must be distinguished by his superior knowledge and experience his earnest
[00:13:45] His earnestness his self control and high courage. I mean, yeah, this is just so awesome so legit
[00:13:55] And it's funny because a lot of times people you know what's what you know they asked this question almost like a rhetorical question like
[00:14:01] But what is a leader you know, but what really is leader there you go yeah, we just just read it
[00:14:06] Yeah, so listen to that check those things in the mirror when you're trying to be a leader you know check and see
[00:14:12] If you're emotionally
[00:14:13] Detached check and see if you're earnest
[00:14:17] Boom earnest
[00:14:21] Check yourself control check your knowledge check your experience all those things
[00:14:25] Continue on the example and personal conduct of officers and non-commission officers are of decisive influence on the troops
[00:14:35] Wow the officer who in the face of the enemy is cold-blooded decisive and courageous
[00:14:40] Inspires his troops onward the officer must likewise find the way to the hearts of his subordinates and gain their trust through the an
[00:14:48] Understanding of their feelings and thoughts and through never ceasing care of their needs
[00:14:56] I mean relationships how much we talk on this right and it's this dichotomy
[00:15:01] I mean
[00:15:02] Detached emotionally, but not on emotion. You have to care and if you know the check here. I mean
[00:15:07] so ridiculous so ridiculously
[00:15:11] Incredible that I guess is not that ridiculous incredible. It's like oh
[00:15:15] You put a guy in
[00:15:19] 2000 and whatever into a combat scenario when he's got a loot lead troops in a tough situation
[00:15:26] If they're successful at it, they're gonna come to the same conclusions that someone did in World War I
[00:15:30] Which is where this guy was coming this is 89.000 years ago that this was written right and well here's the thing people have been fundamentally the same for
[00:15:38] 5000 years these are fundamentally true about human nature. Yes
[00:15:41] Yes
[00:15:45] But never ceasing to care for their needs
[00:15:49] When I had
[00:15:51] Mook mook on general mookyama
[00:15:54] He's the he's the guy that used that word Ross like
[00:15:58] Yes, he was one of hackwords company commanders and Vietnam and he was just
[00:16:05] You know, I was saying this and I was saying that he's like yeah, you got a care for your men
[00:16:09] I don't like check and
[00:16:12] That's what he was talking about hackworth once again hackworth known as this you know badass hard-ass guy
[00:16:18] And he just hackworth cared about them more than anything. Yeah
[00:16:26] Mutual trust is the sureest basis of discipline
[00:16:30] In necessity and danger
[00:16:32] This is what I've been trying to explain to people for a couple years now is that is that the the word accountability
[00:16:42] I
[00:16:43] Only have to hold someone accountable if they don't have if we don't have that mutual trust where they understand where I'm coming from and they just go oh
[00:16:49] You want the weapons clean cool they'll be clean. I don't have to go and inspect the weapons right
[00:16:54] There's a mutual trust there and in that trust is discipline
[00:16:58] In all situations every leader must exert without a vision of a responsibility his whole personality
[00:17:08] willing and joyful acceptance of responsibility is the distinguishing characteristic of leadership
[00:17:18] This the speaking of plagiarism yeah, I just plagiarize this whole thing. I guess right. Yeah, well
[00:17:23] This does not mean that the subordinate should seek an arbitrary decision without proper consideration of the whole or that he should not obey
[00:17:31] Orders precisely or that he should let his feeling of the greater knowledge take precedence overall
[00:17:36] obedience
[00:17:39] Independence of action should never be based upon
[00:17:41] Contraryness
[00:17:44] Independence of action properly used is often the basis of great success
[00:17:47] So that's why you have to understand what the command is intent is because you got to be support when you make these decisions that you're making as a subordinate
[00:17:56] You got to make sure that they're in line that they're not contrary to what's going on
[00:18:00] But you know it just touched on something real briefly we were about this contrarian mindset
[00:18:05] There are there are people who just walk around with a contrarian mindset and it doesn't matter what gets said like they are always gonna be like well
[00:18:13] Yeah, but you know and
[00:18:15] Sometimes that other that outside thought is is a good angle to think about but you but he just said it
[00:18:20] He goes real quick. He just goes but you can't just be independent for the sake of being a
[00:18:24] Terrier or what a power. He just said that that
[00:18:27] Contrary in mindset which as you know, I mean I even open mind and I definitely try and think about things from a different angle
[00:18:33] But you're right people that are just being contrary because they just enjoy the friction right of
[00:18:39] Of arguing with people. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a big supporter of that
[00:18:43] And they end up having no influence because
[00:18:48] Because everybody just oh you you're if you they're crying wolf basically right everything they just disagree with every time
[00:18:55] So guess what yeah
[00:18:59] In spite of technique the worth of men
[00:19:02] Is the decisive factor
[00:19:04] It's significant is increased in group combat so the way they translate it in the American one. I think they say they value the
[00:19:13] I think they might even call it the combat value meaning basically are the dudes hard
[00:19:18] Like are the dudes hard that's what they're talking about here the worth the worth of men is the decisive factor
[00:19:25] This is an interesting translation here the emptiness of the battlefield demands
[00:19:29] Independently thinking and acting fighters who considering each situation are dominated by
[00:19:36] Conviction boldly and decisively to act and
[00:19:39] Determined to arrive at success
[00:19:41] So the emptiness of the battlefield in the American translation
[00:19:44] They talk about because modern warfare
[00:19:48] Demands that we be separate from each other like as you and I know
[00:19:53] If you and I are in patrol we're not close to each other. You know, we're dispersed and we're gonna spread out
[00:19:57] So that we're not gonna get killed by one machine gun round or one more to round
[00:20:02] So because of that distance that's what they're talking about when he talks about the emptiness
[00:20:06] So because of that emptiness on the battlefield you have to have independent think independently thinking and acting fighters
[00:20:12] Right because I'm not gonna be there to tell you what to do you're not gonna be there to tell you guys what to do
[00:20:17] They're gonna have to independently act. That's the way it's got to be that's something that we call decentralized
[00:20:22] Experiment being accustomed to physical accomplishments lack of consideration of self
[00:20:29] Will power self confidence and courage qualify a man to master the most difficult situations. There you go
[00:20:37] There you go. Let's work on that physical accomplishments. What does that mean? Do athletic things?
[00:20:43] You have to be in shape lack of consideration of self boom
[00:20:47] You're not important will power. Yes
[00:20:50] Discipline self confidence and courage qualified man to master the most difficult situations
[00:20:59] The worth of leaders in men determined the battle worth of the troops
[00:21:05] Which is supplemented by the possession care and maintenance of arms and equipment
[00:21:10] Superior battle worth can equalize numerical inferiority
[00:21:14] So if you're just hard core fighters it doesn't matter right how many people the enemies got because we're gonna get
[00:21:22] self
[00:21:24] The higher the battle worth the more vigorous and versatile
[00:21:28] can war be executed
[00:21:31] Superior leadership
[00:21:33] and
[00:21:34] Superior troop battle readiness are reliable portence of victory
[00:21:38] The leaders must live with their troops participate in their dangers their wants their joys their sorrows
[00:21:47] Only in this way can they estimate the battle worth and the requirements of the troops
[00:21:53] Sitting around in the ivy tower
[00:21:55] That's interesting though because we do have a thing in this military about the separation to a certain degree
[00:22:00] Right this is saying and so there's gonna be a bounce there too right. I mean, yeah, but you can't be in the ivory tower and totally
[00:22:06] Disassociate people like who's that guy?
[00:22:08] No, I just get orders for that guy battle field the loophoness
[00:22:12] You know you gotta actually get out of the hum v
[00:22:16] And go see what's going on. That's what you got it. Yeah. Yeah. Nope. Yeah
[00:22:21] Man is not responsible for himself alone
[00:22:26] But also for his comrades
[00:22:30] He you can do more who has greater capacity of accomplishment must instruct the inexperienced and weaker
[00:22:36] From such conduct the feeling of real comradeship develops which is just as important between the leaders and the men as between the men themselves
[00:22:48] troops only superficially and not through long training and experience well together
[00:22:56] More easily fail under severe conditions and unexpected crisis
[00:23:00] So if you're only superficially and you haven't gone through long training and you haven't been well together
[00:23:06] When the hard times come you ain't gonna make it and that's really when people ask me about
[00:23:12] You know, how do you build the team and how do you develop the bonds and team you do hard stuff together?
[00:23:16] That's right. You do hard stuff and when we work with companies now companies that made it through
[00:23:21] the downturn of
[00:23:24] 2007 2008 because most a lot of companies didn't make it but the companies that there was
[00:23:28] Refer back to those experiences like you know, that's what bonded them together right
[00:23:33] Same thing with the military. You know you go through boot camp. What is that? It's a hard experience. You bond with all these people
[00:23:39] And you know when you meet someone else in the military they went through an atominum
[00:23:41] And they went through boot camp or Officer Canada at school or whatever some sort of hard kind of indoctrination
[00:23:48] Then you go to airborne school
[00:23:51] Thing where you're all gonna overcome your fears of jumping out of airplanes or whatever
[00:23:54] Then you go to some kind of special operation school same thing you're just you're just putting people through harder and harder
[00:24:00] Things to get them tighter and tighter and more more bonded together
[00:24:05] So they can overcome these adversities when they come their way
[00:24:10] Therefore
[00:24:11] Before the outbreak of war the development and maintenance of steadiness and discipline in the troops as well as their training is of decisive importance
[00:24:20] Every commander is enjoying immediately to intervene with all powers that is disposal against any relaxation of discipline
[00:24:30] Against excesses plundering panic and other damaging influence
[00:24:38] Gotta get the game if you that stuff going on
[00:24:40] Mm-hmm discipline is fundamental in an army it's strict maintenance a benefit to all
[00:24:53] No big deal just discipline
[00:24:56] So so it's interesting it's touched on a few things here which I think you know
[00:25:00] We get that because it's military mixed total sense and and it
[00:25:05] Talk about it when you want but there's you know people I think struggle with how do you do that in business today?
[00:25:09] Well, you know HR and how do I can possibly you have to still find a way to do that appropriately because
[00:25:16] HR doesn't have anything to do with having discipline process procedure
[00:25:19] You know no, no, I'm talking about getting in and knowing what's going on with your people and in their life and
[00:25:25] And doing hard things together, you know because I think what people call you got to show up on time do this part of your job
[00:25:29] And so how do you how do you actually deepen those bonds in a company?
[00:25:33] You got to find ways to put people through difficult things together through training
[00:25:37] Find events to do that builds that camaraderie that gets them through a hard time that strengthens the bonds of those relationships
[00:25:44] I see good companies good leaders do it in companies where they just set really tough goals that are
[00:25:50] Very hard but achievable whether it's a production goal whether it's a sales goal whether it's
[00:25:56] Project goal and people have to really turn and burn to get it done. Yeah, and when they get it done
[00:26:03] They have to force to work hard together. They're first to go to the extreme a little bit to work extra hours to
[00:26:10] Figure things out to strengthen their relationships and when they get done to everyone you know, and it's stressful
[00:26:16] And then they get done and everyone's kind of holding their head up a little bit higher
[00:26:19] It's right a little bit tighter. So it's not even it doesn't even necessarily have to be that you have to
[00:26:24] Allocate separate training to do this. You go hey guys here's this project. It's doing 30 days
[00:26:30] We're gonna deliver it in 24 days. I ran the numbers. I looked at the schedule
[00:26:36] We can do it who's in and everyone goes yeah, we're in and then everyone buckles down and they overcame
[00:26:42] They achieve something that's what they do so that's what that's how you
[00:26:47] That's how you bring that build that bond between people and strengthen teams by doing hard stuff set goals on normal things
[00:26:55] Because think about it when I come in and go
[00:26:57] Hey guys, we got this project do it's doing 30 days
[00:27:01] Could take a little bit longer though. I don't know
[00:27:03] Everyone know who gets fired up to hear that right? No one no one who goes. Oh cool. I'm gonna take an extra
[00:27:09] Half hour for lunch every day if that's that's no people don't even want to do that
[00:27:14] Like people might think they want to do that people might think they want to do that, but they don't want to do that
[00:27:19] No, they don't want to do that
[00:27:20] They don't want to do that they want to get after it and that's our job as leaders is to set that bar and to set it even a little bit higher
[00:27:27] And then and then inspire and encourage and bring everybody along to try and get to that next level further than what they've
[00:27:33] Wait wait oh 24 days. Yeah, all right. Okay, boss. What am I going to do? Yeah, what am I going to do? Just here
[00:27:38] Wait a second. You really think this is possible. Yes, I do. Yeah, I do
[00:27:40] I do know what we're gonna make the whole world
[00:27:42] We're gonna make everyone at this company look at us and say dang they did that in 24 days
[00:27:47] I guess what some other teams is gonna do. I know we can do it 23. That's right. I think we think yeah, I know
[00:27:53] I know we get some good competition going so that's awesome. That's what you have to do that's how you build teams
[00:28:00] Stress build teams now if you have a team that's slightly fractured guess what that stress will do break it apart
[00:28:06] Yeah, it's gonna find those weak. Yes, right so there's a balance. Oh, there's also a balance between
[00:28:11] Hey, you can set goals. Hey, there's a project that's doing 30 days. We're gonna do it in 15
[00:28:17] It's unrealistic everyone just looks at it goes yeah, Jochka's an idiot. You understand understood he's in the ivory tower
[00:28:21] doesn't even know what it takes to get this done so balance balance there 100%
[00:28:28] Continuing along back to the book the strength of the troops must be able to meet the highest demands in decisive moments
[00:28:35] He who unnecessarily fatigues the troops jeopardizes success. Oh, oh, there you go
[00:28:44] The strength employed in battle must stand in proportion to the objective desired
[00:28:48] Unreliable demands prejudice the trust in the leaders and shake the spirit of the troops again. This is a cry wolf situation
[00:28:56] We got to get this done in 15 days
[00:28:58] It's like and that's my you know the first time everyone goes okay, and then maybe we get it done in 15 days
[00:29:03] And then people look up what what we're doing for the next 15 days. We're gonna
[00:29:06] I'm gonna do more you know and you eventually just burn everyone out right so there's a balance that
[00:29:14] Back to the book from the youngest soldier
[00:29:18] On up the employment of every spiritual and bodily power is demanded to the utmost
[00:29:24] Only in such conduct is the full power of accomplishments of the troops
[00:29:28] Achieved so do men develop and maintain their courage and powers of decision in hours of stress and carry forward with them
[00:29:38] To greater deeds their weaker comrades
[00:29:41] So you can actually pass on your strength to the people around you in moments of stress. Absolutely if you're strong
[00:29:50] Does that you know like when people quit in Buds?
[00:29:54] I got I like took their
[00:29:57] Power it's so hard to say that man. I can't I was literally about some people
[00:30:03] Some people go the other way right some people they see someone quit and they're like oh
[00:30:06] Dude if he's quit, no I'm quitting that's right. I can't even relate. Yeah, I mean I mean I thought I saw it happen
[00:30:12] And not from some dude. I'm not like some big you know
[00:30:15] There's not from to some ecotistical perspective. I say I can't really I just I'm not wired like that I
[00:30:20] I'm wired like call a corny, but you know high-landered like
[00:30:23] You know how you would absorb like the strength of like that's kind of kind of like but like
[00:30:29] You know when a guy would quit I have somehow I felt like I absorbed his what was left of his power and it actually
[00:30:35] It more like it inspired me it's it inspired me to keep going the fact that I could keep going and that guy couldn't
[00:30:41] It just I was like okay, you know, I mean
[00:30:44] It gave me more purpose. Yeah, that's why
[00:30:49] You just got to stay hard man
[00:30:51] You know
[00:30:53] People are starting to because you're you're if other people start to see you like cracking and
[00:30:59] There are your troops. They're gonna be like oh no, right? This is a bad sign
[00:31:03] Yeah, because jocos breaking down. This is not good
[00:31:07] Yeah, because we also are like well that will never happen if we jocos so jocco don't ever get
[00:31:12] Now don't worry
[00:31:14] If you took a knee we wouldn't we wouldn't let you or we would just step in for you. Yeah
[00:31:18] But I don't see that happening not happening
[00:31:22] Here this is what you I was actually gonna jump right here because when we started this thing off you you talked about this a little bit
[00:31:28] The first demand in war is decisive action
[00:31:31] So like you were saying like hey you can be the smartest person with a great plan
[00:31:34] But if you can't do it if you can't act on it
[00:31:37] Everyone the highest commander and most junior soldier must be aware that omissions and
[00:31:42] And neglects incriminate him more severely than the mistake of choice
[00:31:51] So if you decide not to act you are a worse
[00:31:55] Criminal yeah in the world I agree then someone that just makes a bad decision bad judgment
[00:32:00] But moves I just disappeared for second back to Ramadi and and thought of those exact that exactly happening like in real life like
[00:32:08] Like in those moments when there is things going on you act and you can maneuver in
[00:32:16] Aggressively solve a problem even if you make a small mistake. It's it's the default aggressive
[00:32:21] Yes, right. It's the complacency while I sit back and our dick kind of went away
[00:32:25] I wish that no, I just steamed all this you got to make a call now
[00:32:30] Obviously
[00:32:32] Having to point this stuff all the time, but it's the truth
[00:32:34] If you just jump and make rash decisions without thinking about them that's also stupid
[00:32:38] You have to let things develop but this idea of in action
[00:32:43] I mean it is the worst that's why what are what are people say about
[00:32:47] Inaction is a decision so like no decision is the bad decision right?
[00:32:52] No decision is the worst decision no decision is a decision first of all yeah no decision is a decision
[00:32:57] And
[00:32:59] It might be the worst decision sometimes no decision while I watch things develop
[00:33:03] You might be the right call but let's be clear no decision is a decision
[00:33:07] What I've been trying to teach people lately
[00:33:09] Is like a standard operating procedure for when you don't know what to do
[00:33:13] Here's the standard operating procedure for when you don't know what to do you
[00:33:17] Look at what the situation where you take you did that you take a step back you look at what's unfolding
[00:33:22] Then you make the smallest
[00:33:25] Decision in the area that you guess is the right direction to move
[00:33:28] And then you assess what that did so you don't just jump off and flank left because you thought that was the right call
[00:33:36] No you go okay
[00:33:37] Hey guys start pushing left okay, so they start moving a little bit. Do they meet major resistance?
[00:33:42] No, okay cool continue with a flank
[00:33:45] You don't just go flank left now they run over there now they're getting flanked and it's a bad situation
[00:33:49] So
[00:33:50] That's the thing you you make a small decision
[00:33:53] The smallest possible decision that you can but you make a decision
[00:33:56] You start moving in the direction that you think is correct assess yes
[00:34:01] Move yes
[00:34:03] assess
[00:34:04] Yeah, you get an in-loop is what you're gonna do. You're gonna end up in a little in-loop
[00:34:07] But people get afraid of making a big decision
[00:34:10] Now sometimes you have to make a big ball decision of course, but people get afraid of
[00:34:15] Making that they can't see they only want to go 100% in right they don't see that they can go 8%
[00:34:22] Yeah, so 8% in
[00:34:24] Is that the last muster so I think it was at the last muster someone asked me something about this
[00:34:29] But you know when you say hey we want to go explore this new market area
[00:34:33] Let's let's buy three buildings in that market area and see where it happens. No
[00:34:39] That's not what you do first do market research
[00:34:42] Then maybe you put a couple key asks up on the street corner and see there's any interest
[00:34:46] I'll leave some space
[00:34:48] You know like that's what you do
[00:34:50] That's the kind of mentality you can have you don't need to just be paralyzed by the fact that it's this giant you break it down into some smaller decisions
[00:34:57] It would have decision making is what I call it and to be clear this is in the I don't know what to do right now
[00:35:03] I'm in an unknown position right I mean because
[00:35:06] You know we're not talking about sheepishly going in directions here. We're talking about no no what to do here
[00:35:13] So I will
[00:35:14] Go in the direction that I believe to be the best, but I'm gonna take a small decision as I can
[00:35:19] I don't want to take too much ground in the right could it could be the wrong direction
[00:35:22] It would be the wrong direction. I'm gonna go the direction that I think is right
[00:35:26] But in the smallest of a decision that I can make in that direction and then I'm gonna reassess yes and guess what if it's the wrong decision
[00:35:34] Now you know that if it's the wrong direction you just you hit a wall there now you just figured that out
[00:35:39] Where when you made no decision you still you don't you still know which way to go that's right
[00:35:42] 360 degrees so when I say hey we're gonna go 90 degrees cool we take a step and we realize there's mass of resistance
[00:35:49] They're cool we're gonna go 180 degrees oh okay right on you know it's you know it's a you know
[00:35:54] It's a really good like modern day example of that you're even sitting like using your map like like Google maps or whatever
[00:36:00] And if you're not moving in a direction it sometimes doesn't know which direction you're going in
[00:36:04] Oh, so arrow just kind of
[00:36:06] It's like a step out of a hotel. I'm like
[00:36:09] Which one must supposed to go here dang it the thing is doesn't even know which one so
[00:36:12] All right, you know I think it's that direction is where it's supposed to go so I start walking
[00:36:15] Yeah, as soon as I take 10 steps the map the arrow or ants itself and it's like yeah, you're going the right way
[00:36:20] Sometimes I don't ask you oh you know you went the wrong way
[00:36:22] It is like oh okay cool I'll turn around and go back together
[00:36:24] Or you could have stood there in the door of the hotel blocking the blocking the traffic and
[00:36:29] Staring at that compass rotate and it's not going anywhere that is exactly what happens and so that's why you you make a small decision
[00:36:36] You didn't you didn't hail a cab and get it
[00:36:39] Start driving that way sprinting down the road. It's 10 steps. Yeah, that's the way it works
[00:36:47] All right
[00:36:48] Can to in by the way I always have to say this why I'm not covering this whole book this book is online PDF
[00:36:55] You can download it. It's free
[00:36:57] I'm not reading the whole thing
[00:36:58] There's a bunch of like granularly
[00:37:01] Tactical things inside that were not going to cover but we're covering the big stuff the stuff that's applicable to every
[00:37:08] Thing that we do next section section two it's a second call leadership
[00:37:15] So here we go great successes presumed boldness and daring
[00:37:21] Proceeded by good judgment
[00:37:24] Check we never have at our disposal all the desire forces for decisive action
[00:37:31] The news flash you're not going to have everything you want all the time. It's not happening
[00:37:35] He who will be secure everywhere or who fixes forces in secondary tasks
[00:37:43] Acts contrary to the fundamental task
[00:37:48] So if you're a trying to do too many things at the same time we call that prioritize next
[00:37:53] You if you got a button if you're trying to do all these secondary tasks you're not focusing on the main one you're gonna get crushed
[00:37:59] and if you're so
[00:38:01] dang
[00:38:03] Rooted in your situation
[00:38:06] If you're secure everywhere
[00:38:09] If you're secure everywhere you're not gonna make any progress
[00:38:14] Yeah, man, that's
[00:38:15] Hunker down. Yeah, I'm secure. I'm safe hunker down when you're hunkering down the enemies maneuvering
[00:38:21] That's what's happening
[00:38:23] The weaker force through speed mobility great march accomplishments
[00:38:28] Utilization of darkness and the terrain to the fullest surprise and deception
[00:38:33] Can be the stronger at the decisive area. So boom that's jujitsu by the way
[00:38:39] And special forces and everything we do to leverage our numerically
[00:38:44] smaller force. Yeah
[00:38:46] Time and space must be correctly estimated
[00:38:49] Favorable situations quickly recognized and decisively exploited every advantage over the enemy
[00:38:56] Increases our own freedom of action. And yeah
[00:38:59] That's not just special forces not just special operations. It's every
[00:39:04] Mediterranean. They all do this
[00:39:07] If they're good
[00:39:09] Repidity of action in the displacement of troops can be greatly can be assisted greatly or retarded by the roads and streets
[00:39:18] Nets and by the terrain conditions
[00:39:24] The season the weather the condition of the troops are also of influence
[00:39:27] The duration of strategic and tactical operations
[00:39:32] Cannot always be first seen you don't know how long something's going to last
[00:39:35] Successful engagements often precedes slowly often the success of today's battle is first recognized tomorrow
[00:39:42] It's an interesting one
[00:39:44] Surprise of the enemy is a decisive factor in success actions based on surprises are only of great success when we do not permit the enemy to take adequate countermeasures
[00:39:55] So
[00:39:57] You can you got to follow up. That's where you got to follow up
[00:40:00] That's why in
[00:40:02] Striking you got to throw combination you can't just throw one punch you got to stinging them with the jab and then you got to hand them with the straight and then you got to get coming with the hook
[00:40:11] That's what you got to do you know it's interesting the
[00:40:15] Don't want about
[00:40:17] Often this success of today's battle is first recognized tomorrow
[00:40:20] What's interesting about that one I don't know if you remember this because I don't know you might not have been
[00:40:26] I might not have engaged you at this level, but when we first started doing sniper overwatches and Ramadi and
[00:40:33] I was getting some questions from off the chain of command
[00:40:37] They were hey look what you know this is after a couple weeks
[00:40:41] It was hey you know we get that you're killing some people, but there's no metrics like there's the
[00:40:47] You've said you shot three iED in places iEDs have not gone down
[00:40:53] Like the and iED places have not gone down and
[00:40:57] Luckily I had read the the one oh the one is it the one tech 24 the counter insurgency manual
[00:41:03] And I had learned from that manual that the average counter insurgency takes seven years
[00:41:07] So I replied back to the chain of command and said hey just kind of FYI
[00:41:11] We're fighting a counter insurgency
[00:41:13] The average counter insurgency takes
[00:41:17] takes seven years to achieve victory
[00:41:21] We've been doing this for two and a half weeks. Can I get a little more time to see some metrics on it?
[00:41:26] So and that's true and actually Colonel McFarlin
[00:41:31] This was a battle that he had to fight because
[00:41:35] Here you are you know it's a metrics based people that are looking at things from a metrics based level right
[00:41:40] They're saying okay in Ramadi there's 30 enemy attacks a day and all of a sudden
[00:41:47] McFarlin rolls in and starts this counter insurgency and the enemy attacks
[00:41:52] Go up or yeah and they go up a lot and so his chain of commands look at that
[00:41:57] What are you doing right what are you doing the enemy attacks are gonna be worse your things not working and he has to explain to them
[00:42:02] You know why the enemy attacks are going up because we are actually taking ground from them and they're fighting
[00:42:06] Yeah, and we're killing them, but this is what's gonna happen
[00:42:09] So the initial metrics are the reverse of what you want and that's the way it is that's what so these
[00:42:16] The success of the success of a battle is not always visible today
[00:42:20] You have to look at the long-term effects. Well, we went into the Hornets nest. I mean, it's like hey, you know
[00:42:25] What my kid gets stung by this be like you know once a year
[00:42:29] Well, we're gonna go in and get rid of the bees nest all right. Well, we go in there. We got you guys got stung like 20 times
[00:42:34] Yeah, because we went in and we actually are destroying the Hornets nest so they're stinging us now even more. That's why it went up and when we're done
[00:42:40] Though they're not gonna sting us at all, but for now the numbers went up. That's exactly what happened. What do you want to know like that?
[00:42:46] We used to go after the Hornets nest. It's a sort of a test of uh, you know when you're eight years old
[00:42:51] It was it's always a test of of
[00:42:55] Of courage basically because you're gonna go in there with a stick
[00:42:59] Like that they have to see if you can get it to fall down and you know, it's like playing Pinata
[00:43:04] You don't get it on the first shot. It can take some viewers so you whack it and then you run and those things come after you
[00:43:11] Right, but then so all of a sudden this things go on and me attacks go up. Yeah, you get in stung like when you go in and hit a Hornets nest with a with a stick
[00:43:19] You're getting stung
[00:43:21] Pretty much that's what's gonna happen
[00:43:23] All right, back to the book the enemy will likewise endeavor to make use of surprise our conduct must take this in a
[00:43:31] Consideration the knowledge of hostile leadership and war principles can influence the decision and aid our battle conduct
[00:43:39] But it must never lead to preconceptions. Oh, that's good, isn't it like we know what the enemy's gonna do
[00:43:45] But we know really know what that's right. Hey, they're gonna use the laws of combat, but we got a
[00:43:50] Remember that they might they might step outside the bounds of the laws of combat
[00:43:57] Those conditions which facilitate the conduct of war in our land make it difficult make it more difficult in foreign lands
[00:44:04] Require consideration. Yeah, it's much easier on your own grant. We've learned that over and over again
[00:44:11] In strany us combat troops are soon worn out and quickly used up
[00:44:16] The forces must receive timely reinforcements in leaders men animals battle needs and
[00:44:25] War materials of all kinds
[00:44:31] Boys are gonna get worn out after a while the mission and the situation form the basis of action
[00:44:39] The mission and the situation form the basis of action the mission designates the objective to be a chain to be attained
[00:44:45] The leader must never forget his mission a mission which indicates several tasks easily
[00:44:51] Deverts from the main exit objective so once again prioritize next year
[00:44:54] If you've got a bunch of different things you're not gonna achieve the main objective
[00:45:01] At a situation recently
[00:45:04] Where people were wearing some of their teammates out and was talking to this company about how to do this and
[00:45:11] I said the mission is number one that's our mission mission is number one, but the mission requires people and so you have to take care of your people
[00:45:19] And you have to balance their you know how how tired they are whether they're being replenished
[00:45:25] But again always in balance, but the mission is number one
[00:45:28] But it takes the people and the team to accomplish the mission. So if you wear your team out
[00:45:33] Then you got nobody left even accomplish the mission. That's so that's the dichotomy you talk about that in the dichotomy leadership
[00:45:38] I mean if you if
[00:45:40] If all your focus on is the mission your men will be either used up destroyed. They won't trust you anymore. It'll be a disaster
[00:45:47] so your men
[00:45:50] your people have to come first
[00:45:54] And at the same time the dichotomy is if you do nothing but care about your people then guess what
[00:46:00] You won't have anyone you you want to accomplish the mission which by the way
[00:46:03] Hurts your people because if you're in the business world and you're trying to push your people to drive production or or do their job at a faster pace
[00:46:13] Great
[00:46:14] Then you burn them out and they leave and also in the company folds or the opposite okay guys
[00:46:19] You know take your time. We guess what now we don't get anything done and the company folds so what you have to do is you have to balance
[00:46:28] obscurity of the situation is the rule
[00:46:30] Rule
[00:46:33] Seldom will one have exact information of the enemy clarification of hostile situation is is a self evident demand
[00:46:40] However to wait intense set intense situations for information is seldom a token of strong leadership
[00:46:47] Often of weakness so look you're not gonna know everything. It's not gonna happen
[00:46:51] You have to make decisions that's what you got to do otherwise sign a weakness
[00:46:56] They edited me on billions oh yes, they they there was one little section where I was in the show billions and there was one little sections where where they showed
[00:47:12] Dollar bill
[00:47:14] Getting like a massage or something like that and I was looking at him when I just go weak
[00:47:19] But I did make the cut
[00:47:28] Next the decision arises from the mission and the situation the decision arises from the mission and the situation
[00:47:35] Should the mission no longer suffice as the fundamental of conduct or if it is changed by events the decisions
[00:47:42] The decision must take these considerations into account
[00:47:45] He who changes his mission or does not execute the one given must report his actions at once and assume all
[00:47:53] Responsibility for the consequences he must always keep in mind the whole situation so that's saying it's wrong
[00:47:57] That's right. Yeah, they're not saying it's wrong. Somebody's gonna be like hey, Andrew wanted me to go and take this building and the building is
[00:48:04] untenable the the enemy's too strong. I
[00:48:07] Need you know I make the decision. I'm not gonna take that building. We need to drop a bomb. We need to do something else
[00:48:11] I just that's fine, but I need to tell you and I need to keep the whole picture in mind because if that building was
[00:48:18] Strati-jiggly important for what we're trying to accomplish
[00:48:21] Well then maybe I have to take more sacrifices than I thought to take the building down
[00:48:27] The the decision must depict a clear objective aimed at with the whole force
[00:48:31] The strong will of the commander must support it often the stronger will gains success
[00:48:41] Without very good reasons the decision once made should not be abandoned. Okay, so this is
[00:48:47] Again critical without without a without very good reasons a decision once made should not be abandoned
[00:48:54] And then it says however in the vicissitudes of war and
[00:49:01] In flexible maintenance of the original decision may lead to great mistakes
[00:49:06] Timely recognition of the conditions and the time which call for a new decision is an attribution of the art of
[00:49:13] Leadership. Yeah, don't stick to the one plan that you came up with
[00:49:19] Doesn't work does not work in change plants you really have my I work for some hard-headed people and the plan would be completely falling apart
[00:49:29] And they're riding that thing in the ground
[00:49:31] They're just taking that they all know they think a real ownership of that real ownership of that
[00:49:36] They're not gonna let it go. They're gonna be right
[00:49:39] The commander must permit freedom of action to his subordinates in so far that this does not endanger the whole scheme
[00:49:46] He must not surrender to them those decisions for which he alone is responsible. So freedom of movement. What does that mean?
[00:49:52] That means decentralized command
[00:49:55] The attack is launched in order to defeat the enemy
[00:49:59] The attacker has the initiative
[00:50:01] Superiority of leadership and of troops show the best advantage in the attack success does not always come
[00:50:07] To superiority of numbers so go on the offense. I say that all the time go on the offense now
[00:50:13] Is this 100% of time no but you you have you're you're just that much better off when you're on offense
[00:50:20] You have surprise you have initiative you have the people on their heels
[00:50:24] It's amazing that we were able to take down the
[00:50:28] The island like the island campaign in World War II
[00:50:31] Going into those heavily fortified where the Japanese imperial military had been digging in
[00:50:38] for three four five years yeah preparing those islands for to defend against assaults
[00:50:49] United States Marine Corps coming get some
[00:50:51] Seriously now you guys say Marine Corps and of course the Nihai the Army but dang
[00:50:58] Just unbelievable
[00:51:00] That they were able to that's that's going on offense. That's right. So momentum. Yeah. We're going on offense. Oh
[00:51:06] You've been digging in oh you built a miles long tunnel system to defend the silent cool watch this
[00:51:12] We're coming in we got naval gunfire
[00:51:15] We got course ares we got flame thrower's
[00:51:19] And we're coming and obviously at great sacrifice
[00:51:23] But being on the offense
[00:51:25] Being on the offense is a weapon in its own right. I'm great notice this in strategic too like when you're on offense
[00:51:30] You're you're you have the edge you know you're you're one step ahead when you when you're on defense
[00:51:38] You're one step behind and it's not fun and if you're defending for too long
[00:51:44] Eventually you will get caught you will if you're on defense defense defense defense defense defense defense defense defense
[00:51:49] Eventually you will get caught eventually
[00:51:52] You have to at some point switch yeah and get on offense. I don't know who said it
[00:51:57] It maybe it's even cliche at this in these days, but you know the best defense is a good offense
[00:52:03] So you're on defense so you need to convert that to an offense so somebody attacks you you're on defense
[00:52:08] The best defense is a good offense. So it's my deep yeah, yeah, so my I'm a somebody attacks me first
[00:52:13] I'm on defense my best defense to that is to
[00:52:18] Return with an offense
[00:52:20] Yeah, you know what's interesting is a time when this is different is this is nothing
[00:52:27] I was talking about if the master is
[00:52:30] If there's if we're arguing about something
[00:52:33] Mm-hmm
[00:52:34] If my if I go with that theory the best defense is a good offense and you start to try and tell me something
[00:52:40] That's not jumping and cut you off and I'm like no we do like this. That's actually wrong
[00:52:44] I agree with you and that's interesting right interesting because
[00:52:47] And I see that all the time because leaders
[00:52:50] People end up in leadership position their personality kind of drives them to be
[00:52:55] Sort of
[00:52:57] Spoken and speak up and all those things when the reality is the the
[00:53:02] More senior you get in leadership position the more you should actually use this this the years, you know
[00:53:07] That what I said at the master was
[00:53:09] 98%
[00:53:11] Use your ears 2% use your mouth. Mm-hmm. That's where you end up so this idea that
[00:53:18] That you know being on offense is the best way well when it comes to
[00:53:24] Discussions
[00:53:25] You should gather some intel before you act and listen to one other people have to say
[00:53:31] Check
[00:53:33] The possibility that an attack may miscarriage should never permit
[00:53:36] The federing of energetic leadership from the first. Yes, we may lose doesn't matter. We're gonna get some
[00:53:45] Pursuit reaps the fruits of victory. It strives to destroy the enemy which destruction was not possible in the preceding engagement
[00:53:54] Only a through-going relentless pursuit
[00:53:57] Which prevents the enemy from gaining time to rest and recuperate saves ourselves
[00:54:03] Sacrifices necessitated if we permit the enemy force another decisive engagement. No when you get them on the ropes go
[00:54:12] Put them all the way to the river and then toss their bodies in the river. It's one of the ones we run on here
[00:54:19] The defense waits for the opponent the defender seeks to prescribe the battle terrain that's important
[00:54:27] Right if you're on defense you want to bring people into gear arena right the
[00:54:33] Defense is chosen when our own inferiority permits no other choice or if for other reasons
[00:54:40] It appears advantageous. I was just reading a note from a friend of mine
[00:54:45] A team guy who's who's grandfather was in World War II still life gonna get him on the podcast and
[00:54:52] When he did the island campaign
[00:54:54] And then went into like Japan surrender after the bombs and the Japanese were told on your gun in placements put a white flag
[00:55:06] Like so Americans were sailing in like the wars over sailing in I think it was into like
[00:55:11] I don't use it is into some big port Japan and
[00:55:15] When he was sailing in there was just white flags everywhere
[00:55:19] Everywhere and he was looking around he said it he said it literally looked like snow
[00:55:25] Wow there were so many weapons and placements and he just said I knew at that point that those atomic bombs
[00:55:31] Saved hundreds of thousands of Americans that would have had to go in there and fight until the end
[00:55:39] So the advantage of the defender as a defender you want to pull people into your
[00:55:45] Into your zone to where you know what the Russians do right I analyzed terrain
[00:55:50] Yeah, channelized terrain perfect, but the Russians were the Russians do. Oh, yeah, you want to fight us cool
[00:55:54] Come on come a little bit further come a little bit further come a little bit further. What is it? It's September come a little bit further
[00:56:00] Right always it's October come just a little bit further. It's November welcome to Russia
[00:56:06] Negative 48 degrees. Hope you brought your words. Hope you brought your warmies
[00:56:10] Uh
[00:56:13] The defense is chosen when our own inferiority permits no other choice
[00:56:18] Or if for other reasons it appears advantage
[00:56:21] So if you can be an offense, but if you have to you go in defense
[00:56:25] Breaking off an engagement has the purpose of terminating the battle or giving up the former position in order
[00:56:30] Continue the engagement at a more favorable position
[00:56:34] In the ladder
[00:56:35] Instance delaying action is often employed. So yes, sometimes you have to retreat
[00:56:43] The retreat intends to avoid further combat the engagement must for this purpose be terminated and the withdrawal of the troops be protected
[00:56:54] The changing fortunes of battle demand often the passing from one type of engagement to another
[00:57:00] So sometimes you've got to
[00:57:02] Attach and sometimes you've got to defend that's what's gonna happen. That's the reality and Hitler was not
[00:57:09] Hitler got to this point as the war went on where he actually didn't understand that which is why it's the oligrod
[00:57:15] They left those guys and they did plenty of opportunities to retreat no no hold the line
[00:57:22] I did that I covered the book called Stalin grad from that from the Nazi perspective and
[00:57:27] And
[00:57:29] Those guys were
[00:57:32] Surrounded
[00:57:33] They were listening to the radio and Hitler was making speeches
[00:57:37] Talking about the brave sacrifices of them in Stalingrad they weren't even dead yet
[00:57:44] Like he was he was saying hey look they're surrounded but they fought to the end. They're still there. They were still there. Wow
[00:57:50] Talk about coward talk about being in your ivory tower
[00:57:57] He left those guys to die surrounded
[00:58:03] Delaying action avoids the decision
[00:58:07] It will gain time keep the enemy busy and deceived so delaying action. Let's let's let's let's let things develop a little bit more
[00:58:16] During the course of the battle the commander influences the action
[00:58:21] most strongly by the concentration and increase of fire and through the employment of his reserve
[00:58:28] Distribution location and employment of the reserve
[00:58:31] Require careful consideration mobility increases the possibility
[00:58:35] For their employment always have a little bit in the tank
[00:58:39] You know always got to have a little bit in tank
[00:58:41] Everybody says that you know it's interesting about delaying. We're talking about like like the Russian so we're a little bit further and
[00:58:48] And going on in this next couple of sentences you feel whether it's an enemy whether it's a competitor
[00:58:53] You know when they're going on the attack they're also
[00:58:56] Expending considerable resources absolutely right so so if you can kind of think about it
[00:59:01] Judges who match a guy's on the attack and you're you're in the guard and you're kind of in a defensive position
[00:59:06] Right, you're kind of letting them use his energy
[00:59:08] Right, so let them keep using that energy use that energy in the troops are expanding it takes effort
[00:59:13] Logistical support to keep pushing pushing pushing and you're spreading further and further away from
[00:59:17] You know home base where you got all your support and then
[00:59:21] When they're spread and they've expanded their resources and they're down to just maybe the last of their fuel in their food
[00:59:26] No, it boom then you launch your counter attack
[00:59:29] Yeah, so and speaking of
[00:59:33] We know what I brought up before about when you're I don't want to use the term arguing
[00:59:37] But when you're discussing something from a leadership perspective you're in a group you're in a meeting
[00:59:43] exact same situation let the other people talk and express their viewpoints because every time they express their viewpoint
[00:59:49] you have an opportunity to
[00:59:52] to listen to it to
[00:59:54] to understand it to hear someone else make a counter to it and hear their counter to the counter
[00:59:59] So you're getting all this information
[01:00:01] You're receiving all this information you haven't you haven't given up any you haven't used any bullets
[01:00:06] You haven't used any magazines you haven't you you've got everything and you're just observing I mean it's
[01:00:12] I think it was it's either a dick winners or but they wrote hey when when I let someone talk
[01:00:18] I know everything that they know and I I know everything that I know it's like well there you go
[01:00:23] Keep talking because I'm gonna know everything that you know and I'm gonna know everything that I know and you know how you know how when you
[01:00:30] When you do something anything for the second time it's like
[01:00:33] Expo it's not twice as easy it's not twice as easy or it's it's
[01:00:39] exponentially more easy to make a decision so when you go into a room for the first time and there's a guy in the corner
[01:00:43] You don't know what to do with your weapon like it's hard and then you go into that room again
[01:00:48] Or there's there's whatever there's like a couch in an obstacle whatever and you gotta do you gotta you gotta make a decision
[01:00:52] The first time you go in there
[01:00:54] You see a new guy going in there the first the very first time he's ever done
[01:00:57] E jammed up and everything's the disaster
[01:00:59] He does it one time, you know, he looks at it and go okay, you step out due to again. He's exponentially better at doing it
[01:01:06] so when we're having a discussion and
[01:01:10] I get to listen and listen and listen and listen and listen and hear other people give points and counter points around a table
[01:01:17] And you sit there and just listen and go okay, and you can assemble it all you can assemble the the strongest facts
[01:01:23] You can identify the biggest weaknesses and then when you finally like you said you've now
[01:01:28] You've now everyone has expanded all their ammunition, but you you have a full magazine
[01:01:32] You're magazine to if I've actually been filled up with more rounds because everyone else is expressing
[01:01:38] Their their points and counter points. So you just sit there and listen and then but by the end here we go
[01:01:42] Here's the plan and everyone goes dang jockels smart
[01:01:46] How did you do that? I just shot my mouth and listen
[01:01:51] All right going back to the book this next section communications
[01:01:55] Information reports
[01:01:58] Situation maps so
[01:02:00] If you think about it what leadership is is actually just
[01:02:05] Communicating with other human beings. That's actually what it is great
[01:02:09] You you have to be able to communicate what it is that you need to get done
[01:02:12] to other people. That's what it is. So how does that work?
[01:02:17] The reports and information of the enemy form one of the most important foundations of the estimate of the situation
[01:02:23] The decision and its execution you got to know what's going on and it here
[01:02:28] It talks about air and ground reconnaissance it talks about continual observation it talks about information secured through
[01:02:35] Special means and I'm sure they're talking about
[01:02:38] Human resources you know a
[01:02:40] Human human intelligence so spies or whatever
[01:02:43] That's not human resources
[01:02:45] It's a different kind of story
[01:02:47] Human resources
[01:02:49] And then it says from the whole
[01:02:51] Whole
[01:02:53] From the whole of all these different things the commanders able to draw correct conclusions
[01:02:58] Apparently unimportant details in connection with other reports have
[01:03:02] Considerable worth and this is something that I always told us in the military when you come back from an operation at your debrief you say like well
[01:03:09] I remember this specific thing where did you guys find
[01:03:13] Because we my first deployment we would be looking for
[01:03:15] Weapons bill you know
[01:03:17] Munitions or something anything that they could be using to build ideas right and
[01:03:21] The question was always where did you find it?
[01:03:24] Where did you find it and I first I was like well we found in the bedroom, but where?
[01:03:28] Because is it is it inconceivable to think that if you and I were bad guys and I said hey man
[01:03:34] I'm keeping my stuff
[01:03:36] Taped up under my table when the but when the good guys coming they never find it there. Oh, okay cool
[01:03:41] So I'll do the same thing and we I'm going this from an actual example we found
[01:03:46] Dead cord taped up underneath
[01:03:48] A Mujia Dean fighters table in his house and so this is like I was like oh that that's when it clicked to me
[01:03:55] Oh
[01:03:56] Well
[01:03:57] We should tell everyone that because they probably tell everyone right because that's a pretty good place to hide
[01:04:01] You know tables well this
[01:04:03] Tables have like legs, but then they've got things that the legs attached to
[01:04:07] So if you just look glance under it and it's up under there
[01:04:10] It's kind of hard to see right so maybe someone says hey this where I've been hiding it
[01:04:13] They've searched my house three times haven't found it. We'll find it now
[01:04:16] So we flip things over. That's why we break it now
[01:04:21] So
[01:04:23] It continues on every report and the best information are of little or no value when they reach to late
[01:04:30] Into the command for which they're intended. So yeah if you don't pass information timely
[01:04:34] Doesn't make any difference all commanders are enjoying as early and to the greatest extent possible to inform
[01:04:41] The higher commander of the situation into transmit all important information
[01:04:45] Yes
[01:04:47] The one making a report must express himself clearly and positively. He must differentiate between what he has seen
[01:04:56] What another has noted or stated and what is presumed
[01:05:01] The source of the information must be stated suspicions must have bases
[01:05:08] Those are big yeah, I've
[01:05:15] You've got you've got to pay attention to those things. There's a big difference and that's why we use appears to be right right
[01:05:21] That's one of the biggest ones that they teach us is you don't say
[01:05:24] Hey has an AK47 or hey he's got a weapon if you can't confirm 100% that that guy legitimately has a weapon because it's a big difference between
[01:05:32] Oh, looks like there's something under his dish dasha, right. Oh, it looks like he's looks like he's got a chess rig underneath his dish dasha
[01:05:38] That's a lot different than he's wearing a chest rig right and he's got an AK47
[01:05:44] So it's always appears to be unless you can confirm it and there's a win. I did the mili masqueron here that
[01:05:53] Break down of intelligence
[01:05:56] of it going from
[01:05:58] Like the division level which was hey this is a
[01:06:03] I think they use the word
[01:06:05] The original word was like a suspected VC oh no it was like possible possible VC
[01:06:13] Coordination point
[01:06:15] Went from there down to like the brigade level then it turned into like from from possible to suspected
[01:06:22] Just a little bit of a different word yep, yep, then from brigade to battalion it was like
[01:06:28] Likely and it went all the way down when those guys when those when that Charlie company got those words
[01:06:33] It was this is a VC stronghold not only was it that this is a VC stronghold this civilians are no longer there
[01:06:41] The civilians there's no civilians there and what they had heard was on Wednesdays they go to some market this the
[01:06:47] The the the women and children go to this market
[01:06:52] And maybe they did
[01:06:54] But it wasn't like I mean does every single person in your neighborhood go and shop on the same day at the same time?
[01:07:00] No, is there hey Wednesday they got a Wednesday they got specials at the grocery store cool a bunch of people going out there not everyone right but the report that they got was
[01:07:09] There's no friendlies in this village all VC
[01:07:12] Wow and so as that escalated you know you tell that to a 18 year old trooper
[01:07:19] This is an enemy village and guess what they did they went in there and they killed they murdered everyone so
[01:07:26] That's why you have to pay attention those and I had this happen to me too. We we did an op on my first deployment
[01:07:32] We got a
[01:07:34] Piece overhead imagery and on that piece of overhead imagery there was a red axe on one of the buildings and all's like cool
[01:07:39] I mean this is early in my deployment. I'm like oh that's for the bad guys our cool we'll go get them
[01:07:44] We went out we hit this building and
[01:07:47] We cleared it you know blew the door off the hinges go in there start SSE while we're doing SSE
[01:07:55] our turps are interrogating or what's the tactical questionings?
[01:07:59] We don't do interrogation but do intact the questioning of the people the people are like oh no
[01:08:04] That's not me the person you're looking for is three doors down and
[01:08:07] And so we went hit it and we actually got the bad guy
[01:08:11] Well, when I got back I was I was pissed because I'm thinking a like we wrecked this person's house now
[01:08:18] You know, that's that's horrible. That's not good for our strategic vision
[01:08:22] What we're trying to get done here the guy the enemy the real bad guy could have escaped and so I asked the question
[01:08:27] I said who drew this who put this red axe on this building?
[01:08:31] Yeah, who
[01:08:33] Like what was it? Who and I actually said yeah, yeah, who and why and as I dug down into it
[01:08:39] they had they had
[01:08:41] through various intelligence sources
[01:08:45] narrowed it down to like
[01:08:47] this one area and
[01:08:49] this one area the center of that circle was the building with the red axe on it
[01:08:56] So that's my fault right that's my fault because I should have said okay
[01:09:00] So from then on it was my deal to say who put this red axe on why it? What does that mean?
[01:09:06] What does it mean? Yeah, I mean that red axe implied at the time that like that was the target house as opposed to
[01:09:13] He there's the center of the ring and he could be anywhere in it. You would have it plan that mission
[01:09:17] There's there's there's five houses in this ring and it's one of them. We would have cordoned off the whole area
[01:09:22] And if you you can think about all the different ways that intel can come in and every different type of intel that you could have
[01:09:27] Could come up with you know hey here's here's the probable chances, you know it's gonna be one of these houses
[01:09:34] So that was a big lesson learned for me and you know if your people people to know when we would make a mistake like that
[01:09:42] We would obviously we what we did is we carried money we carried money and we'd pay them for the damages that we caused and and we would more than
[01:09:53] More than pay for the damages that we caused it was kind of a good deal to get your door
[01:09:57] Block off
[01:09:59] No, I mean the thing is yeah, we gave him a good chunk of money and you know it was all documented
[01:10:03] We had a count for all that I mean I remember going with the logistics of that but but but
[01:10:09] Nonetheless, I mean it's still terrifying those people who hadn't done anything wrong
[01:10:13] I was so didn't have their door blown off when trying to know it's absolutely horrible. Yeah, the money doesn't the money
[01:10:19] He doesn't it's a strategic loss. It's a strategic loss. Yeah, so that's why I was so pissed right this happened
[01:10:25] And that's why I was pissed at myself because I accepted that until as
[01:10:33] What we were just talking about hey cool there's the red X yeah, I must be the bad guy. Yeah, let's go hit that house
[01:10:39] so many examples in life and in business on that too people say something and you're like
[01:10:43] Well wait, did they say they they say they weren't gonna be there or did they say they didn't think they could be like
[01:10:49] I mean there's just so many conversations that you can have about whether it's marketing in your business
[01:10:52] Whether there's something we doing with your family. He just clarified for a second. He really wait
[01:10:57] What did they really say did they actually say this?
[01:11:01] One of them didn't really say that oh, okay
[01:11:03] totally changed it in it's in that moment. Yeah, it's a legend and that's in those moments as a leader
[01:11:08] It's okay well hold on before we actually go and pull the trigger on this
[01:11:12] Actually in case of combat we're figuratively right before we start marching let's just clarify real quick before we go push it off in this direction
[01:11:18] oh, yeah the the
[01:11:21] Rumor mill the gossip the he said she said
[01:11:25] Those things are just awful and as a leader you have to take a step back you can't let your emotions get a hold
[01:11:31] Being someone says oh, he said he didn't want to come to this thing
[01:11:35] Wait, oh really?
[01:11:36] Didn't want to come you didn't want to come or he
[01:11:39] His father's sick. Yeah, it's got a parent teacher conference and his kids really struggling in school right now
[01:11:44] So he he just he can't be there. Oh, well, that's a totally different story. Totally different story check
[01:11:53] Next one
[01:11:54] Battle itself provides the most reliable means of estimating the enemy boom
[01:12:01] What's the confirmation? Yeah, that's that's just legit. That's the truth
[01:12:05] Which means sometimes you got to take some risk got to take some calculated risk and figure out what's going on
[01:12:10] All of this is just is talking about preparing you know mindset the troops the tactics the techniques
[01:12:16] Logistics all of that, but now to now to okay
[01:12:20] sooner or later battles going to happen. That was a tough one in Ramadi
[01:12:25] They so there would be little checkpoints out in town and
[01:12:30] The checkpoints would be run by Americans and
[01:12:33] Then eventually there'd be run by half Americans and half Iraqis and at some point it was okay
[01:12:40] Iraqis are going to have to run this checkpoint by themselves
[01:12:43] And that was a huge risk every time to see if they could pull it off
[01:12:48] Then the first several times it was not successful and
[01:12:53] We would turn over the
[01:12:56] Checkpoints to the Iraqis and there was there was I think three of them got over run. Oh, yeah
[01:13:02] Over run yeah and just mass casualties
[01:13:06] But that's what we what that's a risk that the commander had to take you know that's a risk
[01:13:12] Chromic frontal and at the time had to take you had to say okay we've trained them
[01:13:16] We've we've pushed them they've been out there we've done the right seat left seat
[01:13:21] We need to see if they can maintain and we need to see what the enemy's gonna do and so
[01:13:26] The first few times it got tried it was a horrific and
[01:13:30] And eventually we did get the level of violence down and we did get the Iraqis all just trained up enough that they could handle it
[01:13:36] But it took some we had to do what we're talking about right here battle itself provides most reliable
[01:13:42] Means of estimating enemies sometimes you got to take that risk it's awful
[01:13:49] Continuing on this next little section
[01:13:52] Called estimate of it's called estimate of situation period decision period
[01:13:57] Ha
[01:13:59] An estimate of the situation provides it's pre-seeds each decision it demands rapid fought simple logical consideration of the essential details only
[01:14:09] Our mission is the basis we proceed from it and determine what it prescribes and how we can best accomplish it
[01:14:20] Rapid fought simple logical
[01:14:23] You wouldn't think that you would need to tell people in the military and business in the world that hey when you're gonna make a decision
[01:14:30] You need to think simple and logical right how often do I see people making decisions that are not simple right
[01:14:38] And the logical emotional yeah just emotional decision making here this is why the and you know
[01:14:45] That general back had seen this over and over again in order to get to a point where he's making it
[01:14:51] Evident in this book that you need to be logical about your decision making process that would be like if you if you were to sit there and talk to
[01:14:58] Hey, listen guys here's the most important thing. I want to start off with about your decision making process
[01:15:02] Make sure it's logical
[01:15:04] You get laughed out of the room. We'll know kidding. Okay. Let's see what happens when we crank up the stress
[01:15:10] Yeah, people are not making logical decisions. You know when things get emotional
[01:15:16] whenever people are involved. Yes
[01:15:18] Like that's it and because that's just there's there's all those dynamics of those relationships and
[01:15:24] History and and way people talk and treat each other and it creates and then people become emotionally attached to their own plan
[01:15:30] And so he has to put it in the book to codify it as you've got to be able to
[01:15:35] Unemotionally detach and analyze what is the best decision that is gonna have the biggest impact on the battlefield or the impact the battlefield
[01:15:45] Yeah
[01:15:46] The character of the hostile leader and the hostile troops it may be used in estimating the conduct of the enemy
[01:15:53] especially
[01:15:54] If we have had
[01:15:55] Previous battle experience with those so you got to know you're going to guess that's patent right there. I read your book
[01:16:03] As a determined decision
[01:16:05] Must be logic must be the logical result of careful consideration of all factors the decisions made will not always correspond to the actual
[01:16:13] Conditions presented this is interesting the decisions made will not always correspond to the actual conditions conditions presented
[01:16:24] Then the situation develops other than the decision
[01:16:29] contemplated
[01:16:30] he
[01:16:31] has the greatest prospect
[01:16:35] Of success who quickly and skillfully exploits other reconnaissance
[01:16:39] But does not change the decision except with compelling reasons so that's the same thing
[01:16:44] We were we were talking about earlier
[01:16:46] So you stick with your decision until you see that it's not a good decision and then you change it or you can do that
[01:16:52] Get quickly analyze that right that's how like Boyd said what they would eloup is a quick
[01:16:57] You can go through that it would eloup than better you could out maneuver. I used to do this all the time in even it in task unit bruiser
[01:17:03] When things weren't going the way I expected them to go
[01:17:07] my
[01:17:09] my
[01:17:11] strongest
[01:17:13] Desire was to keep doing what we plan to do like okay look
[01:17:16] Oh we didn't expect to take contact from over there cool
[01:17:19] But we're gonna keep pressing through from the north or whatever
[01:17:23] And that was my that was my that was where I leaned toward I always leaned toward go with the plan
[01:17:28] You know plan your dive dive your plan right we stand diving here you come up with a plan
[01:17:32] You go out there everyone's walked through it everyone knows what the plan and we briefed it if you can stick with that you stick with it
[01:17:37] But
[01:17:39] Then sometimes you got to go oh, you know what I didn't expect what that and that is too big of a curve ball for us to handle
[01:17:45] I'm making an adjustment we're making a call and that's where we have standard operating procedures and we make an adjustment based on something
[01:17:51] That else that we've rehearsed a thousand times. That's right, so you've got to pay attention to that
[01:17:57] Now we get into orders. This is pretty cool
[01:18:00] The order puts the decision into effect clear orders are an essential
[01:18:05] For the frictionless cooperation of all commanders
[01:18:09] For the higher commander the written order provides the foundation for leadership
[01:18:14] It is communicated to the lower units printed as a carbon copy
[01:18:19] Type written or written by hand or by technical communications means
[01:18:24] Frequently it is dictated over the telephone in every instance the most sure and suitable method of transmission is to be chosen
[01:18:33] Should the order
[01:18:36] Should the order be simple or short?
[01:18:38] It may be orally communicated it must later however be committed to paper
[01:18:46] So this is something that I talk about a lot and I always throw out this question to trip everyone up
[01:18:52] I say what's better communication email or voice?
[01:18:56] You know email or or conversation and everyone's conversation conversation conversation and and they're right, right?
[01:19:01] Yeah kind of because what goes on what goes on is if if I call you up and I say hey Andrew
[01:19:08] We're gonna do A B and C you good with that and you're like cool got it and then you go out and what I said is and what you heard
[01:19:16] You do A B and D that's right and I go what would wrong with you?
[01:19:22] And you say what you told me do A B and D? No, I still do A B and C and here we go
[01:19:25] We have a problem so that's why when you and I have a phone conversation I say
[01:19:30] We get done and I call you and I send your email. It says hey just want to confirm we're on the same sheet
[01:19:35] We're gonna do A B and C and you email me back and say no, I thought you said you want to be doing A B and D
[01:19:41] No, sorry
[01:19:42] I didn't articulate it right we're definitely doing A B and C and you say okay cool got it so
[01:19:48] verbal is great voice is great phone is great. Yes
[01:19:53] But email is very clear now you flip that over
[01:19:56] Okay, now I'm just emailing you hey Andrew do A B and C and you're like wait, why is he telling me this?
[01:20:02] Is he is he told me this because he thinks I don't know how to do this myself right?
[01:20:05] You know it's like and then we get into this whole thing. Why is he?
[01:20:07] Long email is a long super steeped long emails that you didn't don't even read the whole thing because it's too long
[01:20:13] so what you want to do is you want to use both
[01:20:18] This is this stuff here
[01:20:20] The fact that this is why this is why I this is why I majored in English because when I was a young officer and I hadn't been a college yet
[01:20:30] Luckily
[01:20:31] So I was able to figure out what I wanted to majored but I could already see and there was no war going on
[01:20:36] This is like 1998, 1999
[01:20:38] I could already see that the
[01:20:41] Written messages that we'd get the
[01:20:43] They were so important to be able to understand and then you had to build a right a concept of operation that made sense
[01:20:50] And so I knew I was like okay, well, I know what I'm gonna do
[01:20:52] I'm gonna get really good at this and I realized that
[01:20:55] This idea of communicating with other humans was the actual basis of of all leadership up and down the chain of command
[01:21:04] And what really helped me a lot was
[01:21:07] When I when I had to study Shakespeare in college
[01:21:10] The thing is Shakespeare is very humbling because you don't know what the freaking words mean
[01:21:16] Because they're barely English right?
[01:21:18] It's barely English and any one that says they can pick up Shakespeare and understand it is
[01:21:23] Lying either lying to you or they came from a time machine
[01:21:27] Because it doesn't happen
[01:21:29] So what I realized you know because at first you're reading Shakespeare and you're like oh, I must be stupid
[01:21:34] I'm stupid because I and you know the
[01:21:36] It's like no actually you wouldn't know that word that word hasn't been used since 1648
[01:21:42] So why would you know this word? Why would you know the meaning of that word? You wouldn't know it
[01:21:47] So you have to look it up and you got I got very it's just you know what it is it's just humbling so when I would get some
[01:21:54] R-o-e from down from some rules of engagement down from the chain of command and I'd look at it
[01:21:58] Go, I'm not really sure what this means. I didn't just go. Oh, well screw it. I'll just make my best guess
[01:22:03] No, I would get out of dictionary and look up the damn words that I didn't understand and then simple find because I you know if I don't
[01:22:09] Understand what it means there's no way and hell you're in English major
[01:22:13] Yeah, I'm an English major and there's no way in hell that some of our front line guys are gonna know it
[01:22:18] So you got a translated form so this stuff about communications
[01:22:24] Simple it's just yeah, it's got to be simple clear concise is what we say at echelon front
[01:22:28] Simple clear concise that's the way it's got to be
[01:22:30] F-
[01:22:32] Continuing on them this is so good the more pressing the situation the shorter the order
[01:22:39] Where circumstances permit or orders are given in accordance with the terrain not the map. Oh, that's good
[01:22:45] So whatever chance whenever I can I'm actually taking you out there I'm actually looking okay Andrew
[01:22:49] You see that hey over there. I want you to get you know put some machine guns up there because we're gonna salt through
[01:22:54] You go okay got it now looking at a map. We're looking at the terrain itself
[01:22:57] How often can you actually get eyes on
[01:23:01] um
[01:23:05] In the front lines and with the lower commanders this is particularly this is particularly so
[01:23:11] We're important orders. It is often advisable to use two or more means of transmission
[01:23:16] Which is what I just said and I tell that's company's all time
[01:23:19] Hey, you want to get your you want to get your vision out to the company email it to them do a video do a conference call
[01:23:26] Do a a poster that they can do it all get that message out there
[01:23:30] Do you you know I hate to say over communicate because that implies it's too much but
[01:23:37] Over communicate
[01:23:39] When I think of over creamer kids like I'm gonna send you hey Andrew I'm gonna send you 48 emails every day
[01:23:43] Yeah, I would know which one I was reading here is yeah, you know how to good conversation with Sarah
[01:23:49] I'm sure I'm at the uh at mustard about this and about how in this day and age if anything people tend to over
[01:23:57] Use email and we have these just swamped in boxes and
[01:24:01] Having a in this modern day and age having a good plan in place for some comms discipline
[01:24:06] Of and it's exactly what what you said earlier and then I've been using this in business for years
[01:24:10] It's it's a conversation because you can get to the bottom line quicker because so much of the communication is
[01:24:16] Non-verbal it's like tonality and then if you can do it in over a video of ETC or zoom or Skype or whatever
[01:24:22] Great
[01:24:23] So you get to the solution quicker because we're we're going back and forth on each other
[01:24:27] We get to this we get to that final conclusion and then you follow up with an email because then it's black and white
[01:24:32] And then you have like the the confirmation of this is what we talk about it. Yeah, exactly
[01:24:38] It is easy to underestimate the time required to get in order through of that's a good one
[01:24:43] It takes me to take a little bit longer than you thought oh here we go. This is what you were just talking about too many orders
[01:24:48] Especially about all during which the communication means may
[01:24:52] Miscarry produces the danger of causing injury to independence of action or lower of the lower commanders
[01:24:57] So if you're if you're trying to tell everyone exactly what to do guess what
[01:25:01] Eventually that order's not gonna get through and you know what they're doing they're waiting to hear it because you haven't
[01:25:06] Descentualized command enough you've you've trained them like a dog only to do what you tell them to do
[01:25:13] In order should shall contain all that is necessary for the lower commander to know in order for him to execute
[01:25:21] independently his task
[01:25:23] It should contain no more
[01:25:27] Correspondingly the order must be brief and clear decisive in tone and complete
[01:25:33] Adopted to the understanding of the receiver. Oh, that's what I just talked about adopted to the understanding so you got to translate those big words in the ROE down to the front line troops
[01:25:42] And according to conditions his peculiarity the commander must never fail to place himself in the position of the receiver
[01:25:49] I talk about perspective all the time you got to understand the perspective of the person that you're talking to
[01:25:54] They don't have all the context that you have you got to you got to recognize that
[01:25:57] The language of orders must be simple and understandable
[01:26:03] Clarity which eliminates
[01:26:05] doubts is more important than correct technique
[01:26:08] Clarity must not be sacrificed for brevity
[01:26:11] So sometimes you got to go a little bit more detail
[01:26:15] Negative expressions and changes lead to half measures and our objectionable
[01:26:22] Exaggerations are equally bad orders may bind only in so far as they correspond to the situation and its condition
[01:26:32] And its conditions so that's good one orders may bind only in so far as they correspond to the situation and its conditions
[01:26:40] So as soon as there's something outside that you can't
[01:26:43] You can't say no don't go across the line of the limit of advance ever
[01:26:47] Because guess what you might get in the contact and the only way to get out of it is across that limit of advance
[01:26:53] So you better leave some flexibility in there
[01:26:56] Still it is often necessary to issue orders in uncertain situations
[01:27:03] If
[01:27:04] Change is in the situation are to be expected before the orders put in execution the order should not go into details
[01:27:12] So if you don't know really a hundred percent what can happen if you have
[01:27:14] He says still still it is often necessary to issue orders in
[01:27:19] Uncertain situation you're still gonna give orders but
[01:27:22] If change in the situation it's be expected before the orders put in execution the order should not go into details
[01:27:28] In great strategic operations especially when orders must be issued for several days in advance
[01:27:33] This extension from details is to be specifically observed
[01:27:37] The general intention is expressed the end to be achieved is especially stressed
[01:27:44] In the execution of impending action the main instructions are given
[01:27:49] The immediate conduct of the engagement is left to subordinate commanders in such a way the order is fully executed
[01:27:58] Descentualized command 100 percent mission and state. Yes, this is what we're trying to get done here's we're trying to end up
[01:28:07] Go make it happen
[01:28:09] In so far as conditions permit
[01:28:11] It is often best for the commander to clarify his intentions to his subordinates by word of mouth and discussion
[01:28:18] Yet he must not make himself dependent on his subordinates the decision in orders are therefore solely his this is
[01:28:24] Hey, you talked to your patoon chief as a patoon commander and your patoon chief is saying
[01:28:30] We should come in from the west and attack from the west and you go, okay, sounds good and then you get
[01:28:35] Hit strong forces and you failure mission your goal chief told you coming in for the witness the use of those
[01:28:41] No, shut up. It was your call
[01:28:43] He made his recommendation
[01:28:45] Continuing it is recommended that the written order which directs the activities of different elements to a common goal
[01:28:51] Be paragraph and the paragraph's numbered
[01:28:55] That's like I kind of left that in there because this is the kind of detail this manual goes into like number your paragraph
[01:29:02] Yeah
[01:29:04] That which is important should be placed first check
[01:29:10] Here we get here. This is this is good the following sequences recommended for operations orders
[01:29:16] Number one information so in the US military and in and in NATO as a matter of fact
[01:29:25] We use something called the five paragraph order smiac
[01:29:29] Situation mission execution admin logistics and command and signal that's what we use in the US military
[01:29:36] That's sort of our abbreviated
[01:29:39] True pleading procedures boom you use situation mission execution admin logistics and command and signal
[01:29:45] So here's they're talking about operational orders the first thing
[01:29:50] Information of the enemy and neighboring units in so far as this is importance of the receiver
[01:29:56] So what is that that's the situation enemy situation and friendly situation?
[01:30:00] Next the intention of the commander in so far as it is communication
[01:30:06] As it's communication is essential to the accomplishment of the end saw what is that? It's mission
[01:30:11] So we've got situation mission we've got literally the exact same thing
[01:30:15] Execution is what we have next and there's is missions for the elements of the whole command
[01:30:22] What's that yeah that's that's the execution that's what we're actually gonna do
[01:30:28] for America we have admin and logistics next and
[01:30:33] They have
[01:30:34] Orders for the light motorized columns the field trains and baggage trains the battle echelon
[01:30:41] And the remaining reserve elements in so far as this is if an importance the troops so what's that?
[01:30:46] It's all the logistics the whole the admin and the last one we have is
[01:30:52] Command and signal which is how you're gonna communicate and where
[01:30:55] You know this is when you'd be briefing you'd say uh, you know hey as the task in commander
[01:30:59] I'm gonna be on this ridge line
[01:31:01] So we have command and signal the last thing that I say is command post and communications to and from
[01:31:07] Wonder where we got some yeah, so there's the origination of smieck
[01:31:12] It's you know it comes from the troop in fear
[01:31:17] That's where we got good man how this book has it has escaped
[01:31:23] Like my junior officer training you know what I mean like that's what we're trying to solve right now
[01:31:28] Yeah, that's what we're trying to solve we can't solve it we can't go back in time
[01:31:31] But I promise you there are
[01:31:34] NCOs out there I talked to them all the time there are junior officers out there
[01:31:39] I talked to them all the time they send me messages there are battalion commanders
[01:31:45] That
[01:31:46] That go through this and listen to it. So we're good. Yeah, we've worked we're taking care of the problems in the past
[01:31:53] We're this is absolutely true. That's why I'm sitting here
[01:31:57] It's literally why I'm sitting here because I get it I get a damn email or I get a message from a Marine Corps
[01:32:04] Second lieutenant
[01:32:06] That's in the game or I get a letter from an army
[01:32:11] Sergeant that's leading a squad and it's like thank you got it
[01:32:17] I got admit when I was a junior officer. I was so busy so busy, you know
[01:32:22] Rabadiers you guys can't see that like with whatever I was tasked with yeah, I'd never had time to
[01:32:28] Read a book like this. I read what books I was basically forced to read and I got through them as best I could
[01:32:35] And the best leaders made me do those things because I was so darn busy
[01:32:40] It wasn't a priority in me it met 23 years old to do that
[01:32:43] But man some of these things I learned firsthand and like as you're reading them I'm like yeah
[01:32:47] Why absolutely know this to be true?
[01:32:49] But I learned it like by actually touching the hot stove myself, you know well they've berk was talking about it
[01:32:55] When he was at the basic score is like they gave him a stack of manuals and it said read the manuals
[01:33:01] But the problem is you don't have a context around them. Yeah, so that makes it much much harder to read
[01:33:05] It's like distant you don't really and even for me when I when I'm reading something
[01:33:12] With all the context I have around it like when I read it
[01:33:15] Like when I first started reading books that I knew I was gonna do on the podcast it gave me a new level of appreciation before I was reading because I was like oh, okay
[01:33:22] So here's how I'm gonna describe this to everyone because
[01:33:28] Just like we were talking about written versus email versus verbal right when you read the written word
[01:33:36] It's different than when
[01:33:38] someone is putting
[01:33:41] the
[01:33:41] Influence
[01:33:43] On the right spot right the when you're using the tone and all that stuff and I mean it's that's coming from
[01:33:50] That's coming from Colonel William Reader who had him oh I was reading his book to him on this podcast
[01:33:59] And he's like this is very emotional for me because I haven't you know read this book since I wrote it and
[01:34:07] It's very
[01:34:09] Hard to listen to
[01:34:11] You know it's like yes when you add the voice it's there's something more to it and then when you have someone that's a knuckle dragger like me
[01:34:19] That says oh here's what this is here's what we're talking about here
[01:34:23] Here's what what here's what this actually means here's what this translates to
[01:34:27] On on the battlefield in the boardroom somewhere here's the way it actually works
[01:34:32] So that's what's good even though we didn't get the ideal training we can give it to them now. Yeah, and I think it's so important
[01:34:42] We talk about training and how important training is for preparation like
[01:34:46] At least at the very least hey you got to read this book at the very least okay, I mean in the absence of that
[01:34:51] It's like a complete failure, but at least go okay read these books, but you've got to find the time to do the training
[01:34:56] Read the books and then as a leader
[01:34:58] Sit down kid. What does that really mean when we go out and we operate in this way? Where are the lessons from this book that we can apply?
[01:35:04] Yeah, really do it. Yeah, you know, it's like
[01:35:07] For me
[01:35:08] What I was reading about face and I read about face like when we were in remoddy
[01:35:13] I read it for the first time
[01:35:14] I'm not sure 100% sure when I read it for the first time
[01:35:16] But I knew that when I brought it to a body
[01:35:19] I was like that's the only book I brought with me. Wow and
[01:35:22] The thing is
[01:35:24] I would read that like I would read that to fall sleep
[01:35:27] Right, I just get up to my room. I would open up to a random page that rented enough times
[01:35:30] That I don't need to read it from cover to cover but I'd open up to a random page and I'd be like oh
[01:35:34] Oh, this is this is what I'm experiencing right now. Oh, yeah, okay. He experienced the same thing
[01:35:39] I remember one of the first nights I was there flipped it open and I start reading it and what it saying is
[01:35:47] He they're working with the South Vietnamese military and the South Vietnamese military was untrained on a quipped
[01:35:54] Um, they were they were totally devoid of any kind of ethics in terms of money and you know it was cropped
[01:36:04] So I was like okay, so he so in Vietnam they were doing the exact same thing that we're dealing with here
[01:36:09] Okay cool
[01:36:10] Let's look at how he dealt with it. You know what I mean?
[01:36:12] Look there that's the person that actually made me say
[01:36:16] Okay
[01:36:17] The Iraqi soldiers are not going to be like us they have a different culture
[01:36:21] They they run things a different way. It's not it's not wrong
[01:36:27] It's just different from the way we do think the classic cases the Iraqi officers
[01:36:32] Skimming money right off the enlisted guys paychecks right and
[01:36:37] We're to us this is like a total
[01:36:41] Total sin right the ultimate sin you're gonna steal money from your enlisted troops for them
[01:36:48] The enlisted guys
[01:36:49] That's what they expect yeah, they take he's the boss. Yeah, hey, he's gonna take a little bit. He's gonna take his little cut
[01:36:55] Of course, he's the boss. You know what are we doing?
[01:36:57] We're he's gonna he's still generous us, you know, he's not taking all of it
[01:37:00] Right and we had to get that through our minds. You know that
[01:37:04] That that their attitude their cult their culturally different and so if we swaced a bunch of time
[01:37:10] Trying to sort out their pay they're all looking at us going what are you doing?
[01:37:14] What why are you trying to create a conflict with us we I'm the boss. I'm gonna take my cut
[01:37:19] What are you talking about right to them? It's just as simple as that's how it's just how it is. Yeah, you know
[01:37:26] And and so
[01:37:28] For me like reading about face that was that was the book that really
[01:37:32] Tuned me into okay
[01:37:34] There are less this here. I mean that's why
[01:37:36] That's why I named task in a prison task near prison because that's what that's what hack worth did
[01:37:40] 100% stolen from hack worth
[01:37:42] 100% but all the little things cover movie talks about there talks about decentralized command all the time
[01:37:48] Talks about all those things are there he doesn't it's not even a leadership book it's all in there though
[01:37:53] So yes, these types of situations where
[01:37:58] The other thing that happens is
[01:38:00] Everything we've said so far right just every topic that we've talked about
[01:38:04] Is in extreme ownership it's in the dichotomy of leadership it's all in there
[01:38:08] But all of it is a different angle and just like when you when you experience the same thing
[01:38:15] But from a little bit of different angle you know it better that's right you know it if I teach you an armlock
[01:38:20] And then dean teaches you an armlock and then Andy teaches an armlock
[01:38:23] You got little something different from each one of us. It's just a little different sign a little different movement and you get better at it
[01:38:31] Same thing happens here you you hear that same message maybe in a little different way
[01:38:35] Maybe a little different spin on it maybe shown in a different scenario
[01:38:39] You actually learn from it and that's what's important because the more you the more
[01:38:46] The more variations of the same thing you've seen the better off the better you understand it
[01:38:51] And it makes you that much better and if you see the way if you know the way broadly you see it and all things and the more you see it the more you know it
[01:38:59] So yes
[01:39:02] That's the way it should be
[01:39:04] That's the way it should be
[01:39:07] Continuing on
[01:39:14] Suppositions and expectations are to be so indicated reasons for the measures ordered belong only
[01:39:22] exceptionally in the order
[01:39:24] Detailed instructions covering all possible contingencies which are matters of training do not belong in an order
[01:39:35] It's interesting they say suppositions and expectations of what we call those in the military column assumptions
[01:39:39] We just talked about that. I do. Nope. Me lie
[01:39:44] It is often suitable to issue a warning order
[01:39:47] Warning order informs the latest developments of the situation it is used to affect with the most origin
[01:39:52] Preparations likewise it is used to permit the troops to come to rest
[01:39:56] Earlier and also permit them to plan to rest longer so warning order something that we also use
[01:40:08] Another section here
[01:40:10] When an order or report is transmitted orally the one bearing the order or report must repeat it to the issuing person
[01:40:18] A person transmitting a written report should be instructed as to its contents in so far as conditions permit
[01:40:25] Officers transmitting orders should as a rule be instructed as to the tactical situation. It's funny even in the teams
[01:40:32] When someone says peel right everyone repeats the call you repeat it back to the person that just told you and then you repeat it to the next person
[01:40:39] The place of the commander and his staff this is the next section we're going into the personal effect of the commander on the troops is of great importance
[01:40:52] He must be near the fighting troops the choice of location for the core commander should be based upon the requirement of the establishment of
[01:41:01] Rapid and continuous communication to the divisions and the rear. He cannot rely along technical communications
[01:41:06] Meaning telephone wires and all that we can do better with this now, but back in the day and even even so
[01:41:15] There's nothing that beats face to face nothing nothing
[01:41:18] Nothing beats beats face to face great distance in spite of adequate communication
[01:41:24] Facilities lengthens the command and report lines in dangers the system and may lead to
[01:41:32] late reports and orders or even
[01:41:34] Failure of arrival moral for great distance makes difficult personal terrain study and a personal knowledge of the process progress of the battle
[01:41:45] The division commander belongs with his troops
[01:41:48] boom
[01:41:51] Don't get so detached
[01:41:56] This section is called and we just I just jump through a bunch of really granular tactical stuff if you're
[01:42:02] No, no, it's very good stuff to read
[01:42:06] Good to jump through it
[01:42:08] This section is called attack
[01:42:10] Which is just a worth covering it's own right?
[01:42:13] The attack is affected through movement fire thrust and through
[01:42:18] Thrust and through the direction in which it is directed the attack can be directed from one direction against the front
[01:42:24] But ordinarily the greatest strength is launched against the flank or the rear of the enemy more over and a
[01:42:30] Tag can be launched from several directions with a breakthrough of the hostile front
[01:42:35] New attack directions are provided so when you flank someone guess what there's gonna be other opportunities there are appear
[01:42:41] The frontal attack is the most difficult of execution yet it is the most frequent out for the outflanking attack is more efficient than the frontal
[01:42:49] simultaneously outflanking of both enemy flanks presumes considerable superiority and
[01:42:55] An development of one or both hostile flanks and reaching deep into his rear can lead to the annihilation of the enemy
[01:43:02] This is something that's very tricky
[01:43:05] Because we talk about development of the enemy which means surrounding the enemy and
[01:43:13] in a small that's cool
[01:43:16] If you're in a
[01:43:18] Battalion or bigger and actually I want to say brigade or bigger like we're talking massive battle field movements
[01:43:23] Because when you get when you if you envelop if you have a if you have a company of soldiers
[01:43:30] 150 soldiers and you envelop the enemy
[01:43:33] Guess what you're doing
[01:43:35] This spread then well not only you spread then
[01:43:37] When you surround the enemy you are all pointing your weapons at yourself
[01:43:41] That that's the real problem so we're in into this a lot in in the teams where guys would want to surround the target and and there's some
[01:43:50] It's problematic. It's very problematic. You have to that's why you know the classic L
[01:43:56] Shapes whether ambush or L shaped assault
[01:43:59] There's a reason for that. There's a reason why the guys in Vietnam taught us to do that
[01:44:05] Because as long as you know what your fields of firearm you can you can go hot if you're in an L shaped
[01:44:11] Ambush or you're in an L shaped assault the minute I put people
[01:44:15] You know whether it's 270 degrees around the target or 360 degrees
[01:44:23] I can't I now I have to worry about my backdrop and it's a real problem and you know what you can get away with those
[01:44:28] You can get away with enveloping a target all day long as long as there's no shooting but the minute the enemy starts shooting
[01:44:34] It's a problem
[01:44:36] So there are ways to cover exits from an L
[01:44:40] You extend that a little bit you can put some overwatches in
[01:44:43] But it is a real problem to think that you're gonna develop a target in a small you know
[01:44:51] Let's say with with direct fire weapons
[01:44:54] Company size or smaller. It's a real problem to think you're gonna be able to develop a target and not have a problem
[01:44:59] If there's a big firefight
[01:45:01] It's gonna suck. Yeah, and those lines those phase lines can get confused real quickly as we know and
[01:45:08] But flanking the enemy is awesome and you should do it every opportunity you get in all aspects of life
[01:45:19] Continuing a little bit more about the development the development presumes a frontal fixation of the enemy
[01:45:25] So you you still have to lay down some sort of fire to make them
[01:45:30] Distracted
[01:45:32] The enemy is most certainly fixed if his entire front is attacked however such an attack demand strong forces
[01:45:38] Which must be absent from the enveloping wing
[01:45:41] Often therefore
[01:45:42] Must the attacker be content with limited objective or faint attacks so you're trying to
[01:45:51] Yeah, if you if you use every troop that you have to do the frontal front all salt well
[01:45:56] Then you've got no one left to flank. So there's another cool thing like in the teams
[01:45:59] You'd have the little assault force that was gonna move and so when I first was like going through SKT
[01:46:06] Well, we just take all the big machine gunners and put them in the base element like you guys are gonna lay down fire
[01:46:12] And then all of all the other guys with the with the M4s
[01:46:16] We would be the assault team. Well, what happens when the assault team gets compromised?
[01:46:20] They're compromised. They're compromised and now they can't advance
[01:46:28] So now they lay down and start laying down fire will now the base force just became the assault force
[01:46:34] And guess what they're holding yeah, but you have a weapon. It's they're not very they're not as mobile and even worse
[01:46:41] The now base force all they have is M16s and they're going ping ping
[01:46:46] Right that's not gonna keep anyone's head down compared to an M60 right so I learned that very early
[01:46:53] What you don't you don't and it was great for me because that was another thing that initially taught me
[01:46:57] Hey, you got your standard operating procedures you got two squads
[01:47:01] You know you got two squads in a pertinent cool one is base one is assault don't pull the heavy weapons into the base force
[01:47:08] Because you might need them well, I think and two it's it's if the enemy
[01:47:12] In the in their he's saying well the enemy is is fixed right you have it it presumes
[01:47:18] The frontal assault like that's the main effort and and but if that shifts if they become wise to the flanking maneuver
[01:47:25] And they begin to put more forces there than the whole thing just dynamically shifted around and so by loading up your base with your automatic weapons
[01:47:32] Now you're now you're totally off balance. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. These are the little things that I learned along the way
[01:47:39] Then I then I was like oh, then that makes sense. So there's a good reason to have you and a w or two and each squad us yeah
[01:47:46] a w two
[01:47:49] That's the best best position
[01:47:53] Check here's talking about execution of attacks
[01:47:58] Bases of the cooperation of arms so what are we talking about here?
[01:48:02] Hmm the objective of combined arms and an attack is to bring the infantry in its decisive action against the enemy with sufficient fire power and shock
[01:48:12] Action so that is possible to drive through deeply and break down the final hostile resistance
[01:48:19] This goal is first reached when the hostile artillery is taken or is forced to retire all arms cooperating
[01:48:27] In an attack must recognize their mutual capabilities and consider their respective limitations. They require continuous close communications with one another
[01:48:39] The cooperation between the attacking infantry and the supporting artillery governs the course of the attack
[01:48:45] full cooperation must exist in time and space
[01:48:49] Throughout the attack and this is a little something that we call cover and move yeah
[01:48:53] And what's interesting is how much they talk about communication
[01:48:58] Continuous close communication with one another in the cooperation cooperation you know in the Marine Corps
[01:49:04] When we covered when when they burn and I covered
[01:49:09] The tactics manual they call cover move
[01:49:12] Cooperation that's what they call it and so that's that I wonder where they got that from
[01:49:16] Yeah, well cooperation working together, but also look like break the word in two pieces. It's co operation
[01:49:22] Right, so you have two different elements that have to even have different chains of command
[01:49:26] Right you got an artillery unit you have an infantry unit and
[01:49:29] You know we we saw this in our body, too. We're here. We are a naval forces unit with one set of communication method working with our
[01:49:35] Mean Marines use different types of communication who own the battle space. We were guests in their battle space and we had to co operate
[01:49:42] Right we had to co operate that meant
[01:49:44] Communication working together to ensure you know that synchrony of effort and without that that's when you know
[01:49:52] I wear we're gonna be operating this here. Where are you gonna be? What do you want to tell you? I got this kind of like this old
[01:49:57] You know, so we will talk like that
[01:49:59] That's not what we did and that's part of why we had successors because we co operate with the army and Marines
[01:50:04] No doubt about it continuously yeah, we cover moved with them 100%.
[01:50:09] It is the duty of both infantry and artillery just to cure their cooperation through mutual
[01:50:18] Established permanent and effective communication. What does that mean? That means you better have a relationship with them too
[01:50:26] Sorry to know you're about to read what I just said no no it's good. That's that's once again proving that
[01:50:31] that actually what we're talking about is
[01:50:34] Timeless and it and it and it should be obvious to people on the battlefield. It should be obvious to people
[01:50:44] In the in the business world it should be obvious to people that are trying to work together inside of a family
[01:50:50] Should be obvious
[01:50:53] But once again
[01:50:55] The reason we have a business
[01:50:57] The reason we have a business is because it's not is obvious. It's not just easy to execute this stuff
[01:51:04] As it is to read it. Yep, it takes practice and it takes technique and and the best way to get good
[01:51:10] out of this to do it but you're gonna make mistakes and you
[01:51:15] And you're gonna learn from them you well you better learn from them
[01:51:19] So
[01:51:21] That's actually a good place to wrap up this
[01:51:23] um
[01:51:25] This document, you know this document this crazy document
[01:51:30] Group in furok
[01:51:32] Which is just
[01:51:35] Tons of those lessons in there and
[01:51:38] Either lessons learned most of March is lessons reinforced. That's what most of them are
[01:51:42] Simplicity of conduct will most surely obtain the objective
[01:51:47] Friction mistakes or an everyday occurrence. This is for those you out there with the
[01:51:51] Um, what do they call it? A zero defect mentality wrong
[01:51:55] People are gonna make mistakes
[01:51:57] There's gonna be friction. There's not you're not gonna get to do anything easy for doing something easy
[01:52:00] Guess what it's you shouldn't move on and find something more challenging
[01:52:04] mutual trust is the cherished form of discipline
[01:52:10] That right there
[01:52:12] When you when you think of discipline as something you're gonna impose on your troops you're wrong
[01:52:17] Your wrong discipline is formulated through trust
[01:52:24] Strictly maintain discipline is a better for tall and
[01:52:28] And then this one
[01:52:30] One of my favorites from this is the first demand of war is decisive action
[01:52:36] Decice of action
[01:52:39] That
[01:52:40] Is what we need that's what we all need the words and the thoughts and the plans and the ideas
[01:52:47] They all mean nothing without action
[01:52:53] And I'm definitely not saying that you don't need to think or you don't need to plan or you don't need to have ideas
[01:52:57] But I am saying that none of those things matter unless you take
[01:53:03] action
[01:53:05] So
[01:53:09] I think that's all we've got for tonight and if you want to take some action in your life and your world
[01:53:15] Here's some things that you can do change the jitsu that's a good one
[01:53:20] You're training right now, Andrew. I am
[01:53:23] Check back on the mats of justice very humbling the last muster
[01:53:28] I just woke up me back out of the mats. Oh
[01:53:31] Because you realized you need to get your game back. Oh, it was just humbling. That's just the only way I can describe it
[01:53:37] See you're lucky you had that jiu-jitsu you had the you had jiu-jitsu before a lot of people had jiu-jitsu because you were training in the 90s
[01:53:43] Yeah, yeah, so you kind of rested on those laurels a bit right?
[01:53:49] Right? I yeah, well, and everybody else got really good and I got rusty. Yeah, yeah, I said I've been training
[01:53:55] Not in jiu-jitsu anyway. Yeah, so back on the mats. Hey if you're if you're training jiu-jitsu
[01:54:00] Go to originmain.com
[01:54:02] You can get American made everything
[01:54:05] Giz
[01:54:06] the best Giz
[01:54:08] You can support this podcast and you can support America
[01:54:11] We got T-shirts
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[01:54:15] Giz. Do I say Giz? Yes, I did and jeans by the way now we got jeans. That's right American made jeans
[01:54:24] cotton from America
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[01:54:56] that know that did that for the living before
[01:55:00] Factory started going overseas so check out the origin boots supplements during warfare
[01:55:05] cruel oil discipline discipline go and also discipline go ready to drink buya
[01:55:09] I see you've been sucking on that thing over there
[01:55:13] You drink a lot of those
[01:55:14] Draco mustard you know I
[01:55:16] I was I dang
[01:55:18] Well, you I'd had some at night and you're drinking that right now I'm like yeah man tastes great
[01:55:22] I like it. I'm a fan of the tropic thunder oh yeah
[01:55:27] So we got tropic thunder we got lemon lime
[01:55:29] which is called citrus psycho
[01:55:31] I'm running low on that right now so I didn't really
[01:55:35] When you brought it in here you just remembered that my preference
[01:55:37] No you're lucky
[01:55:39] I was like oh what if that jaco
[01:55:41] paying attention to the guys' work form like you know you don't care
[01:55:44] Don't care all the thing I said about caring was not true
[01:55:47] I just that's what I have left I didn't want to sacrifice any of my lemon lime
[01:55:51] You threatened to that
[01:55:52] No dude I remembered
[01:55:54] I was taking care of you so yeah you can get that you can get those cans
[01:55:57] Ultimately you're gonna be able to get those everywhere in the world that's what I'm talking about
[01:56:01] because it's good for you
[01:56:02] those
[01:56:03] the ingredients
[01:56:04] everything ingredients
[01:56:07] filtered carbonated water natural flavor citric acid monk fruit extract
[01:56:12] That's the ingredients look at the ingredients on any other can of what the crap is in there
[01:56:15] Not so bad so it's got a bunch of other things b12 and magnesium and sodium potassium and there's caffeine in it
[01:56:23] So anyways check it out
[01:56:25] You'll dig it and it will get you
[01:56:28] It'll get you kind of fired up and it'll get you going
[01:56:31] Yeah exactly it's going water kid milk milk strawberry chocolate whatever a bunch of different flavors
[01:56:37] Jaco white tea check that out. We have our own store jaco store calm rash guards t-shirts
[01:56:42] Choccer's has beanies hoodies
[01:56:45] Everything on there's legit
[01:56:47] If you want to support the podcast it's awesome subscribe to the podcast subscribe to this podcast the warrior kid podcast
[01:56:53] I got a couple that are approaching readiness so we'll be there. I usually
[01:56:59] Roll those out three to time so I got one in the bank working on a couple more
[01:57:04] YouTube if you want to see echo Charles's legit videos that you can go there and you can in the comments
[01:57:11] Teleco that is jacked he's not here right now to defend himself but boy to see love it when people tell him he's jacked
[01:57:16] He's all he acts all humble but he loves every second
[01:57:19] Yeah
[01:57:21] Psychological warfare get that on iTunes Google play if you want to know alarm clock
[01:57:26] You want the jaco alarm clock jaco you should make it alarm clock. It's there. Oh, I have it this
[01:57:30] Yeah, it's called psychological warfare if you want that go to any MP3 platform
[01:57:36] You can get it flipside canvas dot com Dakota my brother
[01:57:40] He's making
[01:57:41] Cool things to hang on your wall got a bunch of books
[01:57:44] The next book to come out is called leadership strategy and tactics field manual
[01:57:51] Breaking down this stuff at a tactical level pragmatically so you can execute it
[01:57:57] Also way the warrior three kid just came out a little while ago. It's called where there is a will
[01:58:03] Talked about will today. Shouldn't children know about the power of their will?
[01:58:06] Yes, they should get him the book that's literally called where there's a will and you know the rest of it
[01:58:12] They're the way where the warrior kid books are also available
[01:58:17] Way the warrior kid in marks mission Mikey in the dragons best kids book ever you're one of the first people I read it to
[01:58:23] Yes, before was even imprint the bill wasn't even print it was like I just
[01:58:28] Scratched it out so good
[01:58:31] Yeah, it was awesome when I read it to you and you were like I could see the look in your face
[01:58:35] You're like how did this knuckle dressing right now?
[01:58:38] Yeah, same exact so good. That's a gift I give to like
[01:58:44] Friends of mind to give to like kids like it's a bedtime story. It's so good and there's something in there for all of us adults
[01:58:51] There is there is indeed and then there's discipline because freedom field manual
[01:58:57] How to get after it manual
[01:59:01] The audio version of that is on it's mp3 is not audible
[01:59:04] It's that because same thing I want to be able to be able to break it down and put on there alone so that's what I did
[01:59:10] iTunes whatever mp3 extreme ownership with my brother-lave babin dichotomy leadership with my brother-lave babin
[01:59:16] Everything that we're talking about
[01:59:18] in modern language
[01:59:20] Examples from the battlefield in the business world very straightforward principles
[01:59:26] One of the best I think it's the best selling business book since it came out extreme ownership
[01:59:31] That got to me leadership people say it's better interestingly enough. So get those to
[01:59:37] EF online
[01:59:40] We made online training four leadership because you can't just go to one
[01:59:46] Event or read one book and think that you're all good to go you need to continually train and and that's what we made
[01:59:54] EF online for EF online dot com it is leadership training interactive leadership training
[02:00:02] Online check it out and we have one more master this year. It's in Sydney, Australia all the other
[02:00:09] Mustard we did we did Chicago sold out we did Denver sold out we had to change the room around in Denver
[02:00:15] To because we had so much demand so we changed the room around that's not happening in Sydney
[02:00:21] Sydney is absolutely going to sell out go to extreme ownership dot com if you want to come I look forward to seeing you all in Sydney
[02:00:28] And we're going to announce
[02:00:30] The 2020 dates pretty soon. How do you like mustard? Oh, mustard is amazing
[02:00:35] So good and you know teams need to come together. Yeah, you know you I mean
[02:00:40] I've gone to events for years. There's nothing like mustard. You know running a business is nothing like mustard
[02:00:45] And I'll just tell you that
[02:00:47] Come as a leader for sure the value of bringing several of your other key leaders with you
[02:00:52] So you're all hearing the material together. Yeah, it's one thing to go individually
[02:00:56] It sure that's great
[02:00:58] But the tendency is to come back like Moses coming down the mountain with the tablets and everyone's you're fired up and it's like okay
[02:01:04] But when they when several of you hear it together
[02:01:06] You can really implement change in your in your organization. Yeah, that's good going and we've seen a lot more that
[02:01:11] There was some people some companies that brought
[02:01:13] 20 plus that's amazing the mustard the amazing
[02:01:17] Indeed, we we set aside some seats so that they could be together right you're talking about
[02:01:22] Like 20 plus people and there's there's plenty of companies that brought four yep, you know brought six
[02:01:28] Some people come alone that's fine, too
[02:01:30] But yeah, if you can bring a few people from your team and you can all hear it from the horse's mouth and you can all bounce these ideas off each other
[02:01:39] It just adds that much more to the
[02:01:41] Experience and just kind of FY when we do these we go to the hotels
[02:01:46] The hotel people are like this is the most incredible thing this is the only event where
[02:01:55] When the doors open at 745 in the morning after we do PT it's at 445
[02:02:00] Combat shower
[02:02:02] When there's people lined up waiting to get in there and then every you know the hotel staff will be like everyone so proactive and nice
[02:02:10] And you know no one's rude. It's just like good people. It's awesome. Yeah, because what are people focused on people on folks not getting after it winning
[02:02:18] And and and being good and I'll tell you to just some of the knives. I don't you don't see this in other events
[02:02:25] For those you listen and life in jaco basically
[02:02:28] They don't basically eat all day
[02:02:30] No, every break so called life in jaco or sitting there talking to everybody and that's something that feedback that I see consistently
[02:02:37] People are like wow, life in jaco and all the instructors are so accessible. Yeah, so it's not like the session sessions end and
[02:02:43] Leave in jaco disappear back into their green room. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're out front
[02:02:47] So you get a lot of really good in her. I stopped saying no green room, but there is no green room at the master
[02:02:53] So where where there if you think if you want to come hang out come hang out. That's what we're doing
[02:03:00] At a course right now we have yeah, overwatch and this was cool to see this at at the master you know people say
[02:03:05] Where can I get
[02:03:08] Leaders that have these
[02:03:11] Principles in their brain how can I get them to my company? Well, believe me, life and I've been at getting asked that for years and so what we did was
[02:03:19] We created a company with Mike's Rally who's another
[02:03:23] Ashland front guy another one of our brothers from to you breuser and and you know he said hey look
[02:03:29] He's he'd been working with veterans transitioning into the civilian sector and he said hey, let's rock this and so
[02:03:37] That's what we did great idea from Mike and so now we've got it
[02:03:42] EF Overwatch whether you're
[02:03:45] Special operations veteran or
[02:03:48] Aviation combat aviation veteran and little news flash
[02:03:53] Coming soon we are opening it up
[02:03:56] We're we got another wing of EF Overwatch we're about to bring online which is gonna be for
[02:04:02] Everyone in the military because
[02:04:04] We the demand is so high and look you're in special operations great you got some you know you've got great leadership experience
[02:04:11] You know who else has great leadership experience
[02:04:13] In for triple tune commander right on infantry platoon sergeant so
[02:04:19] We
[02:04:20] We started with the community that we know we know it best
[02:04:24] But the fact the matter is and you know this as well as anyone the the rest of the military
[02:04:30] They're great people their great leaders
[02:04:33] They've great experiences so we're creating something right now that is gonna open this up
[02:04:38] So we can plug in our great experience to military people from every branch from every
[02:04:45] MOS
[02:04:46] for every job specialty and and let them apply those leadership skills that discipline
[02:04:52] To the civilian workforce and make the veterans life better and make America better make the company's better
[02:04:59] It's just a win win so we got that rolling out the next few months, but just a heads up on that one
[02:05:05] And if you need more of this conversation because
[02:05:10] Two straight hours of me and Andrew Paul is not enough then you can find us on the in-webs
[02:05:15] We're on Twitter
[02:05:17] Instagram and we are on dying frozen block Andrew is the Andrew Paul
[02:05:26] And I am at jockel willink
[02:05:30] Andrew got any close-knots get after it every day. I love your post, you know
[02:05:36] None of us are promised tomorrow. Mm-hmm. Make us big of an impact you can every single day
[02:05:43] I've had a lot of time to think about
[02:05:45] Life and particularly recently passing on my grandfather and other friends of ours
[02:05:51] At the end of the day we're only here on this earth for a certain amount of time
[02:05:55] And I think the biggest legacy that we can leave is how we impact the lives of other people
[02:06:01] And that can be at a small level
[02:06:03] Doesn't cost anything to say a kind word to somebody to offer some encouragement
[02:06:08] To show an act of kindness to hold the door
[02:06:10] That doesn't cost anything and I think we can make a huge difference every day in just how we interact with other people
[02:06:18] In kindness and in getting after it every single day so that when I meet St. Peter at the early gates
[02:06:24] And I meet my maker
[02:06:26] He says well done good and faithful servant
[02:06:28] Chuck and it's interesting that that ties right back into this premise that as a leader
[02:06:34] One of the most important things if not the most important thing that you can do as a leader is care about your people
[02:06:46] Now
[02:06:48] We learn from military history and those
[02:06:52] Lessons are of course written in blood
[02:06:56] Written in blood by the men and women around the globe
[02:06:59] That have served that are currently serving that protect our freedom every day so thank you to all of them
[02:07:07] Our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correction officers and border patrol and secret service and all the first responders out there
[02:07:18] same thing
[02:07:20] Holding the line
[02:07:21] Thank you all for keeping us protected
[02:07:24] Here at home and to everyone else out there whether you're in the military or not
[02:07:30] Whether you're a first responder or not whether you have a mission or you just have a job
[02:07:37] No matter what situation you're in
[02:07:43] It all starts
[02:07:45] When you start
[02:07:47] When you actually start when you take decisive action that's what you need to do you need to make it happen by getting up every day
[02:08:01] Then getting after it
[02:08:03] Until next time
[02:08:05] This is Andrew Paul and Jocco out