Jocko Podcast 192 w/ Sean Parnell: Outlaw Platoons Long and Horrific Road

2019-08-29T16:37:58Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles @officialseanparnell 0:00:00 - Opening 0:10:46 - Sean Parnell 5:00:12 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 5:08:49 - How to stay on THE PATH.

AI summary of episode

I mean rich serving next to poor northern or serving next to southern or like you know black white Asian Hispanic Muslim Christian atheist Sabot was a Satanist I mean all in the same fox woman and it's like you know what I mean like in America like I feel like we're divided amongst those lines But in an infantry battalion and in a combat unit you address it directly and in a way you transcend those stupid petty differences And this is like why I always say like real leaders unite they don't they don't they don't devise you know This is not this is not healthy But that's how they were like piles of human shit everywhere big intense volleyball game like you know the Afghan I mean it was just the craziest crazy crazy shit you ever see in your life It's crazy it's weird like when we'd go and take over a building like if we're gonna stay in a building for a few days Within I'm not kidding within a half an hour Guys would be fixing stuff and like rerouting things and hey, let's get this building and you you go into some Iraqi family They've been living there for however many however many decades and they would still have like You know in their kitchen there'd be a little hole next to the wall where they would take a shit and then they would kind of push it out through the hole in the wall And that's just that's just how it was and I always thought to myself Americans are kind of crazy in the other direction We look at something and go, oh, you know what this is I'm just gonna fix this. They're all carrying this guy out of my batain commander runs by and he's like What are these idiots doing hey, you know, you're not supposed to have a platoon got it didn't matter Like carry it everywhere and and when we got to Afghanistan that You know, I'll just sit and brought me on board with branding in a big way, you know, they these guys That that became their collective identity, you know, and that's the thing about the military that is truly remarkable right like they They teach you to shoot movement communicate together and then you go to combat and you fight bleeding Died together, you know, and that's one of the things I always talk about about going home is like when you come home It was a nightmare and We came out of that and it was like I remember just being like ACUs were like our army combat uniforms were like just DRAWS has drenched, you know Walking in I mean the defa everyone's got their little trays and they're like high five and everybody was like you know like Imagine being an artist you training to be an artist and never painting a painting right Yeah, you know the fact that you know an infantry petune on the border of Afghanistan got a B1 strategic answer capable dropping like You know, I don't even know I couldn't even tell you like 20 30 Jdms You know Jdms a joint direct attack munition on target I mean we I'm telling you we must have at least 11 Probably more like 22 we dropped over the course of that engagement it was just You know because it didn't just end after the enemy broke contact right they were still taking pot shots well after With the initial forces broken contact because we had to get a record up there to get our trucks out I mean for me as a leader I was not willing to delegate that you know I feel like in other words I always wanted to be I was wanted to be a part of that I was wanted to have some sort of command Command supervisor authority on that aspect of you know I was always in the fight I wanted to be in the fight I wanted to be a contact with a heavy I also wanted to be involved in those types of decisions and so I think you know you mentioned something about Just talking to your guys about how you feel too So many leaders in the military don't do that and what I mean by that is they it especially in the infantry Where leaders don't share their own vulnerabilities like hey man like I feel the same way that you do like I Want to go out there and kill every one of those little bastards. Sometimes people will say you know jokko you talk a lot about tactics like don't you think the enemy's gonna gonna like learn these tactics I'm like the enemy absolutely knows these tactics that the tactics that talk about our cover and move You know set up support by fire positions maneuver you know like that's what I talk about time There's no secret to this stuff you either know how to do it and if you do it how well can you do it I had no infantry training whatsoever When I took over my Patoon they sent me like I got basically a call from my infantry branch manager saying like You know hey congratulations, you know you got your brands transferred infantry you're going to range or school in February and I was like oh Shit, it's like I went to range or school failed the first time like you know pretty much I do everything And Abdul's family in this regard would wake up every day Walk out to their front door and there'd be a letter stape odor You know nailed to their front door, which is basically threats like if if If Abdul continues to work with and support the Americans we're gonna kill him and kill your family and so Abdul would get word of these night letters On our base now we were at Ford operating base for Mel and so Burmel was about five clicks from the border and right south Just directly south east of us were scanned 45 minute drive south was scanning and they would Army special forces would rotate in and out of there and skin is sort of famous for being co-located with with what they call an Afghanistan The Alamo, which is a like a little bee hut where like these you know secret squirrel types would sit there with like They're a little calm stuff and listen to like what the Taliban were talking about But there is there's an outpost there and Abdul's family lived right there And I really never I don't feel like I ever had a healthy answer to that question The way that I answered it in that moment was like, I'm just going to Take this experience and lock it away deep in the deepest recesses of myself And my mind and my consciousness and never talk about it again Pretend like it didn't happen Flip that emotional switch You know, shield myself from the pain of it And let's, you know, to me, like, you know, this is not like a by the way This is not a poor me store, I volunteered for this, I do it all again And a second, I don't regret a single second of my experience The military does a damn good job training you to go, shoot, rifle, and But he wrote that book before any of these other Vietnam war books came out and in that book he He talks about you know he describes the platoon and it's all the stereotypical characters better in a platoon and What's what's amazing about it is like they those were the real guys that weren't his platoon those the characters You describe those the characters that are never every major Vietnam movie that there is from platoon to a populist now Like they all have this to full metal Jack they all have the same stereotypical American cross cut right the city slicker the the country kid, you know Like the the Chubby dumb kid that doesn't like they got all the stereotypes and you know as I'm reading your stuff It was terrible the way that it happened to went down It's just like you know you come down red as a captain in a battalion And a senior captain on my way to 04 my way to major And a battalion like there are only so many senior captain no four slots come down red in a powerpoint slide It's like we got to get this guy out of here and it's like I can't move any faster than the med board process You know it's like once it gets up to the big army and so we get back to biogram though, man, and it's like It's like amazing, you know, there there are I'm like walking down on my covered dirt fell with blood and muck I take a warm showers much hot waters just want they got these like sauna like wood panels I'm walking on I'm like this is great. Like the juxtaposition of two cells like warrior and civilian you know You know just straight killer or liberator and protector and like I it to me in that moment You know, I think just think the awesome responsibility of being a young leader whether you're a young NCO team leader squad leader Paltoon sergeant Paltoon they didn't matter Um every leader in combat has a moral obligation to be the moral compass of their Paltoon or their unit their small unit and that means that You've got to do everything that you can to keep those troops when they're in the shit Tethered to who they are you know not let them Reveal in the bloodlust too much because if you do that you lose who you are you lose you lose what you lose your human side and for me So we wear body armor and we carry radios and They carry what they can't 404 Mags some frags and And there are climate ties like they're all used to running around at 12,000 feet, you know, so they Scale up the side of a mountain better than a mountain go can, you know, and that they should the people that we're fighting, you know, and what we had started to see on the battlefield You know any time you're in Afghanistan, it's like you deal with you know anything from Al Qaeda to the Connie network to hack Modear to the Taliban sometimes in this engagement what we were seeing Was cross training and so you'd see Al Qaeda foreign commanders You know commanding and leading ground troops who were just local Taliban and Man it was it was just a wicked wicked wicked fight And I'm glad when people come out and explain what it's like for real on the front lines Because you know we just talked about that that psychological thing of getting home or Getting to get to sleep and be warm and comfortable and then having to go back and you guys got that to the end degree I think it was by far the most difficult part of our entire deployment because if you think about the history of any military You know in the days of Sparta like and you were called to arms like you were directly responsible for how good You were with your weapon system you had your own weapons as you trained on it you lived or died by it, you know and I think we killed I think I mean we got attacked by like probably 30 or 40 guys that day I think that was what the report said in the aftermath I think we killed six or seven of them At least you know, I mean couldn't really find any They're so good at casivac, but We killed at least six or seven of them that day and and for me like I remember coming back to the defac and at the end of that fight I didn't even know if I still didn't know if if I had made a colossal mistake and I'm gonna walk into the defac I'm telling you so we were into all kinds of shows over there You know the whole putton we gather around this is like I mean we had these like little Laptop computers we all sit around like screen this big and watch these shows but the office was one of those things That it was just like holy shit like look at what we just talked about how much of a I mean it's just the most sad depressing thing. I just I mean like thinking of myself like sorry Just got off a goddamn bird like Jesus like and then of course He's like you don't want to be about taking the magazine out on my weapon like because you're not supposed to have a magazine on your weapon A biogram you're supposed to wear a road guard belt everywhere you go. And I feel like you know so much of leadership is just like showing up, you know showing that you care like Trooping the line and combat or walking through the barracks at night or just you know Being there with them in those little moments where you're not maybe Intimately involved pound and beers with them in the barracks, but you're like they see you But we can't do that and so just being able to identify with your men on that level is it not only does it bring you closer to them I think it ingratiate them to you as a leader as well where they think like okay, you know my leader's not some abstract person out there He feels the same pain that we do he's in this with us and You know it goes back to sort of the established and that collected by identity like if you're a part of that collective identity as a leader I feel like those sorts of commands Are more likely to be to be followed in that line that you walk while it is a certainly a fine one Your best chance of staying on the right side of that is operating like that. He was like This is the greatest shit I've experienced this Columbia and I'm like all right sir calm down Let's like let's let you know like let's he's like what we can do what we can do we can counter attack We need to take the fight on my co-case or yeah, and You know we got in a few fights and we started to Did you know we started to have this reputation in our area of operations of like The green skulls and it got to be weird listen to the the enemies communications on their little icons and they be like Oh, it's the green skulls like wait for another unit where like That's what I'm talking about yeah, That's what they're capable of and in this village there's no way that I mean we didn't ever even come into contact with them There were so many small border villages And the Hindu-Kish mountains that have not even talked to a tribe that's a click down the road let alone ever seen an American troop There's no just the mere thought that They may have been working with Americans was enough to cause something like that It just shows you the depth and the prairie the enemy that we're fighting is why we fight against them This is why Americans are there this is why we matter this is the why the way that we fight matters You know there is a right and wrong to how the world You know conducts itself, you know I firmly believe that You know some cultures are better than others, you know I think our Western culture should be preserved and fought for and protected and promulgated as much as possible We live in the best country on the face of the earth why shouldn't we try to do that for other people and you know I saw something on your make-out inside not that's I love it my man to say like you know You're last Instagram me some video view poem back this big bone like God damn I got to go on a podcast of this guy like I was just playing Pokemon with my son I'm not this is not who I am you know this guy's gonna kill me No, that's awesome, but And your default is to attack all the time your men know exactly what they're supposed to do the moment that they get shot at the moment that you're attacked and it is to attack and One thing that is infinitely easier is to is to call guys and real them in like say okay guys Are guess what you know what we're not going like when you make the decision we're gonna break contact instead Okay, that's something that Where is if people don't know what they're gonna do You know what I mean like I look at some things that I experience in combat I'm like you know if somebody would have told me that that could actually happen I would have said it's like it's like you watch in a movie. I got my squad that you're screaming that they're going black on ammunition I'm thinking of like Joshua Chamberland and like holy shit I'm gonna have to order a pay net char and time to the teeth of the enemy and then I remember This computer by trice like thinking Jesus Christ the army doesn't issue us bay and that's anymore like this is like this is crazy But I could believe that I wrote it I mean it was one of those is like I literally didn't care like hey, you know It was like a he had sent out an email and I sent he'd sent out like kind of a group wide email to all the officers You know asking for some feedback But young guys like me who made it most of the butoon like we didn't and it felt like a betrayal You know almost by like a parent and that violation of trust you know how we felt about it at the time yeah when he said that I was I at that point I was like Holy shit, you know like for a lieutenant like my biggest weapon is my radio and if it's time for like me to start shooting back It's a it's a real real bad day for everybody, but that's where we were you could hear these guys Not only and you you detail this in the book it's Scary you hear him calling out all the lock bar which okay, but then what what Because we've all heard that okay, I made it This like a logic that made it you brain dumb stubby let your hair down a little bit you kick back you smile You everything just feels a little bit better life the world just feels a little bit more colorful like you're not looking through You know dirt and crusted window all the time right that everything it's like Everything's amazing food tastes better water tastes better your workouts are better like everything is better But I my point is we had guys army guys and Marines Primarily army that had definitely we had to overcome a Pregnitist against special operations because they had had real bad kind of experiences that you're talking about in there and again like you said You know what there's great SF teams there's there's great seal teams there's horrible ones Just like there's great infantry battalions and great infantry companies and there's shady ones as well Absolutely kind of you you kind of just have to you have to look at what you're dealing with but my point is If you're out there be one of the good ones be someone that's gonna listen you know when we got to Ramadi There was a it was a national guard unit on the ground out of Pennsylvania the 2 to 8 I remember it was Guy then went to ROTC was But I couldn't bring myself to do it, just stared at that uniform On the floor of my hooch and I just like how trying to ask, you know, trying to I feel like answer a pretty simple question And that we know I was 24 years old I had never been in charge of anything before my entire life The job that I had before the one that I had right now was, you know, history major You know, the biggest responsibility that I had before I was just taking over that pontoon was trying to get the class on time But when they're you know one of the things that I talked about with my men a lot right it was something that like We trained all the time by the way and we addressed this in our training the enemy would did would hone and Evolve their TTPs and so we would as well we never stopped training and so that was how we were different from the lot of the other units in Afghanistan I think can come back on the base and just chill and relax, but no you've got a train you've got a train on escalation of force and in that as part of that training Whether you're evolving your TTPs or otherwise You've got to talk to them about our responsibility on the battlefield to take care of the enemy if they're wounded You know I cannot tell you how many times I had you know I had troops that Soldiers that wanted to put a bullet in a guy that was wounded on the battlefield how I wanted to with every fiber of who I was That's one of those attitudes that you know I call that attitude being Default aggressive like our default mode is we're gonna attack you that's the way it's gonna be and if you have that The amount of power that that gives to a to a team is like look if we get pushed We're gonna attack that's what we're gonna do if that's what everyone's thinking it gives you like a super power Because that's just a unified attitude that we're gonna go attack you absolutely and then and here's the thing It's empowering But we would tell them like man like if you're gonna be in a turret you gotta wear your helmet You can't go out there with your New York Yankees baseball hat on like I know that looks cool, but that's not you you really need to listen to what we're saying And I feel like some of them really paid the price. Well, there's no way and hell that I was gonna allow that to happen to my troops Yep, you know if I if I'm the cool guy if I'm the guy letting let and Trupper's get away with shit like taking off their helmets or whatever Unbutton and their helmets straps and their turrets then and someone gets killed like I'm the guy that has to look for that forever So those tough decisions about like waking up early standing in the proper uniform wearing the right eye protection I mean come on if you let a soldier downgrade their uniform and downgrade their protective gear Someone gets hurt.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 195 with echo Charles and me jockel willink
[00:00:06] Good evening echo good evening
[00:00:11] Time
[00:00:14] Is supposed to be a constant the day is a day and an hour is an hour and a second
[00:00:24] Is supposed to be a second
[00:00:26] At least that's the way it's supposed to be
[00:00:35] And you get one life made up of years hopefully
[00:00:42] That stack up on top of one another
[00:00:44] And they are all supposed to measure the same amount of time those years
[00:00:56] But they don't always do that
[00:01:01] There are days that seem to last forever
[00:01:08] There are seconds
[00:01:10] That's stall and remain suspended in some kind of bizarre slow motion
[00:01:22] And that's the way life actually is parts of it are bigger than other parts
[00:01:31] They have more impact the time continuum gets expanded
[00:01:35] And hyper awareness drags out the hours and the days and they be even indelible impression
[00:01:49] On your soul
[00:01:53] And it could be a good thing that causes this maybe it was
[00:01:58] Maybe it was winning the championship game in high school
[00:02:01] Maybe it was surfing your first wave or your first parachute jump or maybe it was holding your newborn child for the first time
[00:02:16] But maybe it was a bad thing
[00:02:20] Car accident
[00:02:23] A fire
[00:02:24] Being told someone you had a major health issue
[00:02:34] Perhaps it was that moment when you were told that one of your loved ones had died
[00:02:44] You remember where you were the words you heard
[00:02:48] And you remember the anguish you felt
[00:02:57] And these incidents
[00:03:02] Good or bad they leave a mark
[00:03:08] Most of these incidents are short maybe a few minutes maybe an hour
[00:03:11] Maybe it stretches out to a day
[00:03:19] But in combat you experienced these kind of impactful moments day after day week after week month after month
[00:03:27] You regularly faced with highly charged emotions and life and death situations and shots of adrenaline
[00:03:41] They don't get much sleep and the food is horrible
[00:03:47] And you live under the constant for boating weight of one of your men being wounded or killed and it doesn't stop
[00:03:52] It doesn't let up
[00:03:59] And the end of one operation is actually only just the beginning of another one
[00:04:05] Each one with its own risk
[00:04:10] And each one with its own reward
[00:04:13] And that risk and that reward is what you begin to live off of like a gambling addict
[00:04:21] That can't walk away from the table
[00:04:23] You can't bring yourself to walk away
[00:04:32] So
[00:04:34] You carry on
[00:04:36] And eventually you and the men by your side have lived life times worth of life in a matter of months
[00:04:52] And those men
[00:04:54] The ones that survive become your brothers
[00:04:57] And the ones that don't survive
[00:05:03] Become your heroes
[00:05:15] And that part of your life
[00:05:17] That part of your life becomes the standard to which all other parts are measured
[00:05:30] Because when you're holding a machine gun in your hands
[00:05:35] And you're with your brothers in arms
[00:05:37] And there are other men out there with guns and bombs of their own and they're looking to kill you
[00:05:49] When your whole world can be reduced to what is happening right here right now in this moment
[00:06:00] When you experience that
[00:06:03] Then other
[00:06:07] So-called normal things can seem mundane
[00:06:17] And yet
[00:06:20] You carry on
[00:06:21] You carry on with life with work with family, with birthdays and barbecues and the days tick by
[00:06:34] And you get a little older
[00:06:38] And when you pause
[00:06:41] You can even see the end up there in the distance
[00:06:44] Still far enough off that you don't need to think about it too much
[00:06:52] But close enough to let you know it's there
[00:06:57] And you know you already got more time than you deserved
[00:07:04] Than you're thankful for that
[00:07:07] And in your mind you can still picture the faces of those
[00:07:16] Who will not grow old
[00:07:22] Then they gave this to you
[00:07:24] Those times and those men made you who you are
[00:07:38] And you're thankful thankful that you knew those men
[00:07:42] thankful that you got those moments
[00:07:46] All of those moments
[00:07:48] The exhilaration
[00:07:53] And the terror
[00:07:56] The joy and the despair
[00:08:00] The pride
[00:08:02] And the humility
[00:08:07] You're thankful you got to experience it all
[00:08:10] And like I said that experience leaves
[00:08:18] And leaves a mark
[00:08:24] It changes you
[00:08:27] It changes you in some way
[00:08:29] I was reading recently and I came across this
[00:08:41] My old self and new self weren't compatible
[00:08:47] I felt awkward
[00:08:50] I missed my men badly
[00:08:53] I felt a sense of loss at the same time
[00:08:59] I felt guilt and shame
[00:09:02] It shouldn't have taken the army to wake me up
[00:09:06] To the shallow life I had
[00:09:09] Right then I knew coming home was going to be much harder on me than I had expected
[00:09:15] I wanted to run
[00:09:17] I find a place just for me and figure this all out in beautiful solitude
[00:09:25] My old life was gone
[00:09:28] Dead
[00:09:31] Burned away by mortar fire and the sonic crack of AK rounds passing overhead
[00:09:36] I began to wonder if any of it could be saved
[00:09:47] Could I take the pieces with me into the future
[00:09:52] Or was I going to have to rebuild from scratch?
[00:09:56] I was going to have to build a place
[00:10:02] And that is from a book called Outlaw Platoon
[00:10:10] Written by a soldier, a ranger, a leader, an infantry officer
[00:10:18] And a platoon commander in the hollowed 10th mountain division
[00:10:22] You now have to gain a stand in 2006, 2007 and on top of all that
[00:10:30] A father, a speaker
[00:10:33] And an author of several books, a guy by the name of
[00:10:39] Sean Parnell and we are lucky enough today to have Sean with us on the podcast
[00:10:46] Sean, thanks for coming on man
[00:10:49] It's great to be here, I'm excited to be here
[00:10:54] Yeah, reading your book
[00:10:57] Definitely brought back a lot of memories for me
[00:11:01] And I never fought in Afghanistan, I'm fought in Iraq
[00:11:05] But man, you really captured a lot, you captured the pressure
[00:11:11] You captured the grind, you captured the drama, you captured the politics
[00:11:20] And it was very interesting, I was probably about 50 pages in
[00:11:28] And the curtain message, when is this taken place?
[00:11:31] I kind of missed the very first things, I went back to the beginning
[00:11:35] Just to read that opening line to find out when it was
[00:11:37] The first thing took place and the bulk of the fighting took place in 2006
[00:11:43] And the summer of 2006, which is exactly when I was in Ramadi
[00:11:47] So you were going through what you were going through
[00:11:52] The same exact time I was over in Ramadi, we were both fighting the same thing in different theaters
[00:11:56] Different countries
[00:11:58] Yeah, and I think I just learned that now
[00:12:01] But I remember hearing in Afghanistan that Ramadi was like
[00:12:05] I was like, you know, in 2006, I was really, really tough time
[00:12:10] And this was around the time when Americans flipped on their TV sets
[00:12:16] And watched newscasters talk about the surge day in and day out
[00:12:20] Remember that, like the surge was the big policy debate on Capitol Hill
[00:12:23] All this, the head and executor, they were talking about
[00:12:26] They didn't execute it until 2007, when we were supposed to go home
[00:12:30] We were in, but they sent the unit to replace us over to Iraq as part and support of the surge
[00:12:36] But, you know, they had their own battles, wage and on Capitol Hill and we were wage and on our own
[00:12:40] Our own life and death battles and Afghanistan and Iraq at the exact same time, you know
[00:12:45] Yeah, yeah, but yeah, you did a, you did a ridiculously good job with this book
[00:12:52] I was, I read it really fast
[00:12:55] And I mean, let's just get into it, man, sure. Let's just get into it
[00:13:03] Here we go, outlawed tune
[00:13:09] Staff Sergeant Greg Greason
[00:13:12] Lieutenant Taylor's weapon squad leader shouted, shouted us, incoming, get inside the wire now
[00:13:18] His words act like ice water to the face, Lieutenant Taylor and I sprinted our sergeants
[00:13:22] After our sergeants and back to the fob
[00:13:26] With our new home at 7,000 feet, it took a few seconds before my lungs started to burn
[00:13:31] From lack of oxygen, I stopped the concrete pad next to my gear and watched Greason and the other sergeants
[00:13:37] Dash off toward the battalion aid station, Taylor bolted into the Operation Center
[00:13:42] What the hell do I do? I felt rooted in place, observing the action around me with yet
[00:13:47] With no purpose of my own, Captain Kennedy, am I saying that right?
[00:13:52] Yes, Captain Kennedy ran into view, some kids got hit with those rounds, they're at the front gate
[00:13:57] My legs started to move, I felt myself run after Kennedy
[00:14:02] Wanting to go faster but feeling an impenetrable wall between will and action
[00:14:08] We rounded a corner, perhaps 50 yards away, I could see some of the 173rd airborne soldiers opening the front gate
[00:14:14] Crying to straw at Afghan civilians poured into the base, I kept running
[00:14:20] Then I saw the kids, I heard their screams, a few thrashed in agony
[00:14:25] Others lay still in their parents' arms
[00:14:27] I dropped my rifle, pulled my helmet off and dumped my body armor in the dirt
[00:14:32] And sprinted the last stretch to the scene
[00:14:35] One of the interpreters was shouting at an angry father, two more Afghan dads ganged up on him yelling insistently
[00:14:40] Finally, a soldier demanded Abdul, what the hell are they saying?
[00:14:45] Abdul, his face, a mask of rage replied, they're telling me to make sure that boys get treated before the girls
[00:14:52] Get them all to the retaliation, Abdul turned to the fathers and passed the order to them
[00:14:58] They shook their heads and shouted them again
[00:15:01] Abdul announced they refused, they want the boys treated first, grab them all the soldiers, the soldier roared again
[00:15:07] The other men at the gate picked up some of the wounded kids, perhaps seven were still alive
[00:15:12] I scooped up the nearest child and turned to follow the other soldiers as they dash for the aid station
[00:15:17] I taken a half of the dozen steps before I realized I had a little girl in my arms
[00:15:22] I looked down at her, she wore a tan dress that felt like burlap in my hands
[00:15:27] The collar was ornate, red and green with little designs that converged on a v-neck
[00:15:32] She felt so light
[00:15:33] It's okay, it's okay, I said to her
[00:15:37] Her eyes were bright, emerald green, deep and filled with pain
[00:15:40] Her raven hair was displayed across her face and plastered to her skin by her tears
[00:15:45] She keened hysterically, pain racked and panicked
[00:15:50] Her pitch hurt my ears, I kept running, her head and shoulders cradled in my left hand
[00:15:55] Her slight body pressed against my ribs, hip and thigh, and my right forearm
[00:15:59] Her left flank, her left hand, flailed
[00:16:01] She gasped, then screamed again, it seemed to never end, it's okay, it's okay
[00:16:07] I began to wonder who I was talking to, the girl or myself
[00:16:13] Keep running, her breathing grew ragged, her screams choppy, I glanced down at her
[00:16:19] Her eyes were growing dull, she stared up at me, this stranger in uniform
[00:16:23] And I could see the terror in those fading eyes
[00:16:25] With my right hand, I tried to brush her hair off her face
[00:16:28] Instead, my fingers smeared blood across her cheek
[00:16:32] I sensed the warmth on my thigh, what was that?
[00:16:35] I wanted to look down, but something stopped me
[00:16:38] My legs carried us forward, an autopilot mode as I fixed
[00:16:41] As my eyes fixed on hers, she screamed again, horse and weak this time
[00:16:46] The warmth spread to my hip and trickled past my knee
[00:16:49] I couldn't bear to look, when I did, my brain didn't register what my eyes saw
[00:16:54] One barefoot, tiny delicate toes, covered in brown dust
[00:17:00] Crimson dots splattered on her cocky dress
[00:17:03] Which now rode high above her knees
[00:17:05] Tendrils of torn burnt flesh taper below the other knee
[00:17:08] To a bleeding stump, a white stripe of bone projected through the ruined skin and muscle
[00:17:15] I lost my stride and looked up to regain my balance
[00:17:19] The little girl uttered a deep guttural cry
[00:17:22] One step, a second, perhaps a third before I realized she wasn't screaming anymore
[00:17:29] Aid station, we have to make it to the aid station
[00:17:32] It's okay, it's okay, it's okay, it's okay, her hand fell away
[00:17:37] Her neck grew slack in my cradling hand, this is not happening
[00:17:42] How long did it take me to look down at her again?
[00:17:46] Her breast grew shallow, the warmth continued to spread
[00:17:49] I looked down, her fear was gone, the spark in her eyes snuffed out
[00:17:57] The world around me went on, soldiers ran, parents cried,
[00:18:01] Abdul argued, Kennedy barked orders
[00:18:06] And I held a dead child in my arms
[00:18:10] I sleep walked back to her parents
[00:18:13] Her mother, clad in a black berk, a cover to face, sobbed into her hands
[00:18:20] Her father regarded me stoically
[00:18:24] I realized that this little girl had inherited his green eyes
[00:18:29] I handed him his daughter's body
[00:18:32] He turned and walked through the gate, her barefoot
[00:18:36] Those tiny sculpted toes dangled limply by his side
[00:18:44] I watched them go stripped of words
[00:18:54] So there's your welcome to Afghanistan
[00:18:57] All that on day one
[00:19:00] I mean, for me, that was the moment that began inside my self
[00:19:08] I met a morpher, where one of the things that struck me about that moment
[00:19:14] was that here, I have a moment that is so jarring
[00:19:19] Took me to my core, if I was affected me to the very soul of the man that I was
[00:19:24] And the world just kept ticking around you
[00:19:26] You know, the war, almost as if the world didn't even notice this little girl had died
[00:19:32] And my very first day there
[00:19:35] And I remember bringing her back to her father, him stoically nodding at me
[00:19:40] And I remember going back to my room
[00:19:43] That my newly assigned hooch, right, of these just like plywood walls
[00:19:49] And I got a little bunk and a little desk for my computer
[00:19:51] I was the patoon that I was a little laptop there, picture my grandparents
[00:19:56] And I just remember sitting against the corner of my bunk
[00:20:00] And this bloodstained uniform
[00:20:04] For what felt like hours, right?
[00:20:07] And I remember being sick to my stomach, take off that uniform, put on my PT's
[00:20:11] And tent to go to my tent was to go to the gym, blow off some steam
[00:20:15] But I couldn't bring myself to do it, just stared at that uniform
[00:20:18] On the floor of my hooch and I just like how trying to ask, you know, trying to
[00:20:25] I feel like answer a pretty simple question
[00:20:30] And that we know I was 24 years old
[00:20:32] I had never been in charge of anything before my entire life
[00:20:35] The job that I had before the one that I had right now was, you know, history major
[00:20:40] You know, the biggest responsibility that I had before
[00:20:45] I was just taking over that pontoon was trying to get the class on time
[00:20:50] And I just remember asking myself over and over and over again is like, how
[00:20:54] How am I supposed to experience things like that?
[00:20:59] Moments like that
[00:21:02] But then lead my men with confidence
[00:21:05] Be the decisive leader that they deserved, right?
[00:21:10] That they were trained to expect
[00:21:12] They deserved a leader that could handle moments like that
[00:21:18] And endure, you know, and I couldn't figure it out
[00:21:22] And I really never
[00:21:24] I don't feel like I ever had a healthy answer to that question
[00:21:30] The way that I answered it in that moment was like, I'm just going to
[00:21:33] Take this experience and lock it away deep in the deepest recesses of myself
[00:21:38] And my mind and my consciousness and never talk about it again
[00:21:42] Pretend like it didn't happen
[00:21:45] Flip that emotional switch
[00:21:47] You know, shield myself from the pain of it
[00:21:52] And let's, you know, to me, like, you know, this is not like a by the way
[00:21:58] This is not a poor me store, I volunteered for this, I do it all again
[00:22:01] And a second, I don't regret a single second of my experience
[00:22:03] The military does a damn good job training you to go, shoot, rifle, and stuff
[00:22:09] Train your men, shoot, move and communicate together, great, awesome, whoah, I love it
[00:22:13] Every second of it
[00:22:15] But nothing can prepare you a young 24 year old kid
[00:22:18] You never left the country for a moment like that
[00:22:20] You know, it just changes who you are to the very core of who you are
[00:22:24] And so, yeah, I pretended like it didn't happen
[00:22:27] I remember scooping that uniform up
[00:22:29] Walking it outside of my base
[00:22:31] Throwing it in this burn pit on my first night in Afghanistan
[00:22:36] I watched that bloody uniform burn
[00:22:38] And inside me, and I think looking back
[00:22:41] Inside me, I remember feeling like, okay, there's some sort of metamorphosis happening here
[00:22:46] And I look back now, it's almost as if in a very literal sense
[00:22:51] I was shedding this sort of insular state side skin that I had in the form of that bloody uniform
[00:22:56] So I'm not the same person anymore
[00:22:57] You know, the same guy that like went drinking with his buddies every Thursday, Thursday
[00:23:02] And the streets of Pittsburgh, like that guy is not, there's not not the same person anymore
[00:23:08] And that experience
[00:23:12] What really was, was the beginning of a metamorphosis inside me from
[00:23:18] An insulated American citizen to warrior combat veteran
[00:23:23] And that was the first of 485 days of absolute hell
[00:23:29] And hell, I mean, I don't lose a wink of sleep over the things that we did over there
[00:23:35] I'm proud of every second of it, you know, there are a lot of people that
[00:23:38] That we took off the face of this planet that didn't deserve to live, you know
[00:23:42] They made their living praying on the week
[00:23:45] And they didn't deserve the life that they have and I'm proud of the stuff that we did
[00:23:48] We never heard civilians, it was always the kids and kids and civilians that were caught in the middle
[00:23:53] That you remember and think about and that first experience at first day, every single day of my life
[00:23:59] I think about that, you know, I've got three amazing little kids in my own
[00:24:03] And you know, it's like, I can, this might sound, it probably won't sound strange to you
[00:24:10] But, you know, I look in the eyes of my kids and there's like this spark of vitality there, right?
[00:24:18] That I almost envy in a lot of ways, it's not a quote, in a sense called, you know, insulated existence in the best country in the face of planet
[00:24:26] I don't know, but I feel like I look in the mirror myself and I don't have that anymore
[00:24:31] And I remember watching that little, that little girl on my first day and her past from this earth
[00:24:37] And what she did, she didn't have that anymore either
[00:24:40] And so
[00:24:42] There's not a day that goes by that I don't
[00:24:45] Think about that little af gang girl and and how she
[00:24:50] She changed me in some way that experience changed me in some way and how that in some way connects to
[00:24:56] My own kids in the type of father, I'll be, I don't know, I don't have answers to any of these questions
[00:25:01] But
[00:25:02] It's kind of crazy man, like I haven't, I haven't cracked that book since it's since I've finished writing it, you know, and so to hear it, here you read it here now
[00:25:13] It's almost like surreal to me, it gives me goosebumps because it brings back my experience so it's so close to home
[00:25:19] But yeah, I mean, sometimes I forget getting farther and farther away from the war, how much it really did affect me
[00:25:25] I'm sort of lucky in the fact that I was old like when I was a task unit commander when I was a
[00:25:39] Petune commander in Iraq, I was like 30 something years old when I was a task unit commander in Iraq, I'd been in the teams for 15 years
[00:25:46] June I'm saying like that and yeah, I got really lucky in that regard, you know, as a prime and listed guy, so I ate years of being enlisted
[00:25:56] Yeah, you got thrown right in it, you know, and there's been quite a few guys I've had on this podcast, I know I had James a web on here and he went from
[00:26:05] from OC from the Academy to the basic school, got done with the basic school, had whatever 12 days of leave, got to Vietnam, they brought him out on a patrol, they pointed it a ridge line and they said your potunes up there
[00:26:22] He walked up to his potune and he took over a potune and there was no one to replace because the guy that he was replacing was either killed or wounded so there was a sergeant running the
[00:26:31] He said yep, he said him, you know, first lieutenant web, I'm here to take over and yeah, here we go and then that night they had a massive firefight and he had to call for closer support and everything else
[00:26:46] See it was he an army guy, Marine Corps, some Marine Corps army, I mean I feel like even Marine Corps they send I mean first lieutenant right, you get to be able to in command of the Marine Corps, I think it first lieutenant like only the army where they send the brand new butter bars and the
[00:27:00] Second lieutenant, I was in Vietnam, yeah, it might have been actually was, but I mean isn't it it's just I just find that to be you know, I had I mean I look I I'm telling you right now I had absolutely no idea what the hell I was doing when I got to my
[00:27:14] Patoon and I wasn't even I wasn't even an infantry lieutenant like one of the 16 or so branches at the time of the army infantry was one of them I asked for it
[00:27:23] I didn't get it I ended up begging borrowin and steal my way into the infantry
[00:27:28] I think there's a leadership lesson there, but I ended up begging to get into that branch I did I had no infantry training whatsoever
[00:27:34] When I took over my Patoon they sent me like I got basically a call from my infantry branch manager saying like
[00:27:39] You know hey congratulations, you know you got your brands transferred infantry you're going to range or school in February and I was like oh
[00:27:46] Shit, it's like I went to range or school failed the first time like you know pretty much I do everything and I failed the first time
[00:27:52] Begg the commander to stay he let me stay I resikle I go back and I make it through and I get sent to my Patoon and I took over my Patoon
[00:27:58] No infantry experience whatsoever. I wrote sort of the black sheep at the beginning
[00:28:02] Other than range or school. Other than range or school. Yeah, I mean, but I mean solid baseline
[00:28:06] Well the officer basic course for infantry guys is 16 weeks right and so they they get 16 weeks of what is essentially orders writing and Ranger prep and all those I was an heir to fence artillery guy
[00:28:17] We didn't get any of that stuff
[00:28:18] It was just like what we trained on I was sure at short range you know Aaron missile defense short range out of fence and
[00:28:25] Infantry battoons don't carry stangers anymore. I'm pretty sure she'll you see your team's don't carry stangers anymore. I don't just thank her school
[00:28:31] So that's what's that in Texas
[00:28:34] Yes, I was in El Paso. Yes, yes, yes, we're my first studio assignment, but that yeah, but I end that I'm getting to my unit at the 10th mountain division
[00:28:41] I didn't have any infantry training whatsoever, so it was like talk about walking into an experience like okay, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut
[00:28:48] Yeah, big guys big ears listen learn that's it. Yeah, the world that humility served you very well
[00:28:53] And I hope if there's anyone anyone listening that's a young
[00:28:57] Leader going into position have that attitude because that's that's the way you do it. You stay humble
[00:29:01] Going back to the book we parked outside tonight your year actually out on patrol
[00:29:07] We parked outside the only modern instruction within the fort a single story double cubed concrete building with a few undersized windows
[00:29:13] A pair of exhaust vents stuck out either side of the door and a smear of black suits streamed up along them on the concrete wall
[00:29:21] This would be our home for the next few days our battalion had deployed to this part of Afghanistan for one purpose to control the border with the Pakistan
[00:29:27] The mountain caves around here were insurgents equivalent of forward operating bases Pakistan was their safety zone where they would
[00:29:36] Re-supply rearm and train between missions to Afghanistan after sneaking across the frontier that reoccupied their cave complexes and used them the springboards to launch attacks against coalition bases or units
[00:29:47] They did then they'd escape across the border to start the cycle all over again
[00:29:50] Our job was to staunch the enemy flow of troops and supplies into Afghanistan and bandar was one of the key bases to support that intent
[00:30:02] From here from there coalition troops could patrol the surrounding area and establish checkpoints on the road leading into Pakistan controlling the enemy and securing the populace are aggressive keystones of any successful counter-insurgency operation
[00:30:17] By getting out there and actively patrolling
[00:30:20] We could disrupt the rat lines and force them to react to us. So that's what you were doing yep
[00:30:28] Now
[00:30:29] You at this point you're meeting with like a friendly and I he's a Afghan
[00:30:35] Afghan border policemen his name was a major alarm ghoul who had been fighting
[00:30:40] I mean the guy fought the Russians in the 80s and the Afghan civil war in the 90s
[00:30:44] I mean he was like 50 years old just nothing but hardened warrior and there I am like 24-year-old
[00:30:51] I'm telling you man like I don't really know what the hell I was doing
[00:30:53] I was just shooting from the hip like no pun intended the whole time. You know just trying to like you know puff my chest out
[00:30:59] And these guys that are these experience like this border and again and obviously people at listen to spot Casano
[00:31:05] I'm reading probably 10% of this book the entire you have to get this book to get all the nuance that you put in here
[00:31:12] It's an incredible book, but you you talk about that and I kind of took some that up quickly
[00:31:17] I put in my notes. I wrote friendly Afghan border police right because these guys are these guys are kind of out to take care of themselves
[00:31:26] They go to the highest yeah, they go to the highest exactly
[00:31:29] Yep, so you're there with this guy in Afghan border police trolled by regarding us curiously
[00:31:34] So you guys in their compound. I nodded him and he returned my cautious greeting
[00:31:38] He took a few more steps then stopped and dropped his trousers right there in the open he squatted and relieved himself
[00:31:45] The men on my puttune paw to their work and took notice a few lost their composure and gamed the rest put on their game faces turned away and returned to the task at hand
[00:31:54] The border cop finishes business wiped himself with his left hand and continued on his way. It was an unexpected cultural moment
[00:32:00] So again, this is these kind of things that people in America sometimes don't recognize what's going on this is life
[00:32:09] It's true. I mean we get down to Bandar and Bandar the Bandar check point is located like a man five kilometers from the
[00:32:15] From the Pakistan border and it was in southern like maybe mid to southern Kamal province
[00:32:22] And these Afghan border police were like you know left out there flat and man in the Afghan border police in Afghanistan
[00:32:27] We're like the least well funded between the Afghan National Army the Afghan police the Afghan border police
[00:32:34] The Afghan border police were like the red headed stepchild of the Afghan government man
[00:32:37] They were just like left out there flat and their AKs were rusty hogs. I mean there was no patrol discipline inside that base
[00:32:44] I'm telling you man there were shit piles everywhere. It was like
[00:32:48] You know no one wants to walk through a minefield
[00:32:50] I think we all agree that's a terrible thing and Afghanistan can be a very real thing if you find if you're but this was an entirely different type of minefield that we thought like you know
[00:32:59] How do you explain to how do you explain to the Afghan chief of police down there the border police like hey man
[00:33:05] You kind of clean up some of this human share around here. This is not this is not healthy
[00:33:09] But that's how they were like piles of human shit everywhere big intense volleyball game like you know the Afghan
[00:33:15] I mean it was just the craziest crazy crazy shit you ever see in your life
[00:33:18] It's crazy it's weird like when we'd go and take over a building like if we're gonna stay in a building for a few days
[00:33:24] Within I'm not kidding within a half an hour
[00:33:27] Guys would be fixing stuff and like rerouting things and hey, let's get this building and you you go into some Iraqi family
[00:33:35] They've been living there for however many however many decades and they would still have like
[00:33:41] You know in their kitchen there'd be a little hole next to the wall where they would take a shit and then they would kind of push it out through the hole in the wall
[00:33:50] And that's just that's just how it was and I always thought to myself Americans are kind of crazy in the other direction
[00:33:58] We look at something and go, oh, you know what this is I'm just gonna fix this. I'm wait. Why would I shit in my own kitchen?
[00:34:03] No, this isn't making sense. Okay, this is what we're gonna do we're gonna get some kind of a contraption that's gonna carry this stuff outside
[00:34:07] You know you figure it out Americans will walk if you ever watch five minutes of HGTV if there's some weird master bath right next to your kitchen sink
[00:34:15] It's often times a deal break people won't even buy the house. Yes, maybe Americans will say hello that I'm not even I'm not even buying this let alone fix it
[00:34:23] But you're so right man like those I feel like they've disbanded doing business. You know get no pun intended for thousands of years man and like that's just how it is
[00:34:32] It's as how it is and you know that's what what's now what's truly crazy about that in terms of like a leadership challenge
[00:34:40] Like it's not only are you leading your troops, but you've got to establish a good cultural relationship with the people that you're you're operating amongst because otherwise
[00:34:47] You're not gonna have any success in finding and targeting the enemy. How do you talk about that without offending that you know you go into these meetings and you lead with that
[00:34:55] You know what I mean and then and then he's cooking for you like scoop it into this pot of dogs and chicken. There's like you know it's like
[00:35:03] Thank God for Sipra man, you know what I mean like you did you have to dive right in
[00:35:09] Otherwise you're offended the local populist and I mean the consequences could be very real man to get your ass shot off by these guys that you know like I say they play both sides of the ball crazy
[00:35:20] Moving on you do a terrific job of
[00:35:25] In my notes, I just have written the platoon in quotes right because you do what everyone has to do which is describe these guys that you're with and
[00:35:36] It's you know that's enough referring to James Web again who wrote this book called Field to Fire and if you haven't read it
[00:35:43] You should read it's a novel, but it's based on his time in Vietnam and when you know his story then you realize it actually was his time in Vietnam almost exactly
[00:35:50] But he wrote that book before any of these other Vietnam war books came out and in that book he
[00:35:56] He talks about you know he describes the platoon and it's all the stereotypical characters better in a platoon and
[00:36:03] What's what's amazing about it is like they those were the real guys that weren't his platoon those the characters
[00:36:07] You describe those the characters that are never every major Vietnam movie that there is from platoon to a populist now
[00:36:14] Like they all have this to full metal Jack they all have the same stereotypical American cross cut right the city slicker the the country kid, you know
[00:36:25] Like the the Chubby dumb kid that doesn't like they got all the stereotypes and you know as I'm reading your stuff
[00:36:32] Guess what there it is again, and you did a great job of putting these guys out going back to the book
[00:36:35] Staff Sergeant and I can't cover all of them and you didn't even have the opportunity to cover all the guys that you had
[00:36:40] But you hit some of the highlights on the hit some of the highlights staff Sergeant Phil bald with my second squad leader approached six foot four and built like a full back bald
[00:36:48] When caught an imposing figure in the growing darkness at 34 he was the second oldest member of our platoon
[00:36:54] He had joined the army in 2001 after watching the Twin Towers fall on 9-11 on TV in his house in small town, Illinois
[00:37:01] Other squad leaders staff sergeants Campbell sabaki as I'm gonna say that yes sabaki and wait
[00:37:08] Sabaki was a human tempest who blew through life fueled by a raging inner passion
[00:37:14] While serving in a mechanized unit he'd had sabot tattooed and a half circle above his belly button, which is which is anti arm around
[00:37:23] Wates was a leadership challenge
[00:37:25] He talked about your platoon sniper, blue eyed blonde herds sergeant wheat
[00:37:32] You know you got the cast of characters and it is it's legitimately like their tight casted from from from saving private rye and from band of brothers from the Pacific
[00:37:42] Like that's America.
[00:37:44] Yeah, I've looked and so I feel like when I waited into my platoon it was you know the most diverse cross section of people that you can possibly imagine
[00:37:53] You know I mean rich serving next to poor northern or serving next to southern or like you know black white Asian Hispanic Muslim Christian atheist Sabot was a Satanist
[00:38:03] I mean all in the same fox woman and it's like you know what I mean like in America like I feel like we're divided amongst those lines
[00:38:11] But in an infantry battalion and in a combat unit you address it directly and in a way you transcend those stupid petty differences
[00:38:19] And this is like why I always say like real leaders unite they don't they don't they don't devise you know and my you know my NCOs and my platoon were truly amazing
[00:38:30] I mean these guys came from every different walk of life their boots and t-shirts had more experience in the military than I did and they had every reason in the world
[00:38:39] Right to stick me in a corner office in my platoon CP and be like just do the paperwork sir
[00:38:45] We got this but they didn't you know they took me under the wing they taught coached and mentoring me every step of the way these are people that had like I said tons of experience in military
[00:38:54] Far more than I did they most of them had chips on their shoulders as it as it came to officers, you know, but they were amazing man
[00:39:02] I mean six of my guys in my platoon six of them weren't even citizens. I had a guy from Russia. I had a guy from Haiti
[00:39:09] I had a guy from South Korea. I had a guy from South Vietnam. I had a guy from Mexico. I mean I'm not joking all these guys weren't even US citizens when they were in my platoon, you know and again
[00:39:21] You know I'm like a city guy like through through like I'm not like you want to talk about a serotypic. I'm not like I feel like I'm not like you
[00:39:28] I feel like you were the kind of like kick ass take names leader. I was the guy in my unit that always needed a haircut
[00:39:33] You know like I didn't I was not like I'm like the least tough person in the summer on like so
[00:39:39] It's supposed to be a charge of the humor like the stereotypical junior officer covered in from college does know anything
[00:39:45] City's less but I mean it is except for that
[00:39:48] I really really really want to do right by these guys and I'm telling you your humility from my perspective
[00:39:56] On the outside looking because I trained a lot of junior officers and the junior officers that were humble like you were that were like
[00:40:02] Okay, I this guy knows more than me my start those guys always do well
[00:40:06] Well most of the time they do well not always but a large percentage of those guys do well
[00:40:11] The guys that do better guys like look I went to college look I've been a range of school
[00:40:14] I know this that's a mistake and that's the guys that get their horrible
[00:40:18] Well, so look I mean I walk into my unit my very how could you not be humble first of all?
[00:40:23] Like I said I mean these guys had far more experience with you know that in and of itself was intimidating
[00:40:27] But I walk into my unit my unit is going to the joint right in his trading center JRTC at Fort Polk in prep for this deployment
[00:40:33] I I had a choice my commanders like I just stay here get your bear. I'm like no
[00:40:37] I'm going with my guys. I'm going to train with my men before we go to come so I don't even have a place
[00:40:41] I put my stuff in storage and I'm at Fort Drum which is like there are two seasons there like July and winter right and like
[00:40:47] You know, I know it's so the issue you go to see I have and they issue you three
[00:40:52] Shopping carts full of equipment that I don't even know it's Molly gear we didn't have Molly gear like when I was in train
[00:40:58] So I had no idea how to how to use it and I get to my unit and like my NCS like dump these three shopping carts
[00:41:03] And all my gears mixed up and that pile that just tall as me and I'm like so guys
[00:41:07] I'm just like so I'm I'm going on this deployment with you my NCS are like God damn it
[00:41:13] They all start putting together my gear forming and I'm just like standing in the middle of them
[00:41:17] twiddling my thumbs thinking like this is
[00:41:19] Not the best way to earn the respect of your church
[00:41:23] Yeah, you know what's awesome from a leadership perspective as well is and your book shows it very clearly as this relationship
[00:41:30] Develops between you and the NCOs the NCOs NCOs that have the attitude of my officer
[00:41:36] Doesn't know anything and screw him and I want to keep him over in the corner doing paperwork
[00:41:40] Those guys end up with officers that suck yes, and they don't have a good working relationship
[00:41:45] It's a self-licking ice gets a self- it's a self-perpetuating thing
[00:41:48] Like it's a loser. It's what it is. They've had a bad experience with an officer at a young net
[00:41:53] And then they said they just said screw officers and then because if said screw officers every officer they get they don't help
[00:41:58] And then those guys never become good
[00:42:00] Yes, exactly and that is not as functional as a cartoon where the NCOs do what they're supposed to do
[00:42:07] Which is help the junior officer learn their job and advise them and it's literally what their job is in the in the in the Navy
[00:42:15] We call the senior Edlisted advisor. That's what you have yeah
[00:42:18] Your Paltoon Chief is your senior in listed advisor that's supposed to advise you on what the hell will do
[00:42:23] So when guys neglect that or their anti officer they end up with a crappy Paltoon
[00:42:29] Yeah, and you know the the guys that the guys that neglect that end up with a crappy Paltoon
[00:42:35] Or you know the guys that you know you get to Afghanistan or you get to Iraq combat can be you know a
[00:42:41] Great sifter of people right so the guys that maybe were that in your Paltoon that you couldn't quite like
[00:42:47] Move out of your Paltoon prior to the deployment or maybe you knew that they were leadership challenge along the way
[00:42:53] combat has a wave of
[00:42:55] Sifting through those types of people as well. Yeah, yeah
[00:42:58] It does indeed all right continuing on the men seem to be in good spirits at the Northeast corner of the perimeter
[00:43:05] I found
[00:43:06] Sergeant Michael Emerick in the truck
[00:43:08] In the truck commander's seat of the Humvee hunched over sketch baddardies
[00:43:13] Illuminated with his headlamp. We greeted each other. I leaned on the door to peer over to shoulders latest creation
[00:43:18] Emmerick was an outstanding NCO and team leader who
[00:43:21] Who's men loved him?
[00:43:23] He was also gifted artist. I'd read a skill I'd recently tapped by asking him to create an emblem for our platoon
[00:43:31] When we had a break in patrolling we were going to paint it on each of our vehicles which were working on Emmerick
[00:43:36] I asked he showed me the sketch pad Jesus man. That's outstanding. I said looking at his creation
[00:43:41] He drawn a fierce and toothy skull bursting from the O of
[00:43:45] Outlaws
[00:43:47] Isn't finished yet sir Emmerick said a little self-consciously Emmerick. This is perfect. We'll put it on every truck that way the enemy will always know who they're dealing with
[00:43:54] Thank you sir
[00:43:55] Like we
[00:43:57] Emmerick hailed from Louisiana
[00:43:59] Though he didn't have weets deep accent. No man. Thank you. That image is gonna give us our identity
[00:44:04] When I first taken over the platoon I wanted us to have our own unique persona
[00:44:09] We settled on calling ourselves the Outlaws and I'd paid out of pocket to have t-shirts made for everyone
[00:44:15] We also came up with our own guide on we were the only platoon with one the they're officially for company level above
[00:44:21] By the time we got out here we were known as the Outlaw platoon throughout the brigade now
[00:44:26] Thanks to Emmerick's design the enemy would know us as well
[00:44:30] Boom what made you decide to do that?
[00:44:32] You know we well in training
[00:44:36] You know one of the things that one of my NCOs said to me was that hey sir
[00:44:41] You know
[00:44:42] You know when we're we're here training we have we have a tremendous opportunity to take this group of individuals and make them into a team
[00:44:49] And I got to tell you sir, you know once that first bullet cracks by your head
[00:44:54] You know the individual does not matter anymore
[00:44:56] The only thing that matters is is this team and more only as fast as our slowest person and
[00:45:03] So at that moment I said all right, so what do we do you know?
[00:45:08] How can we how can we how can we sort of transcend the traditional training relationships or professional relationship that we have right spring and all my squad leaders
[00:45:18] We started throwing around names for the platoon and we settled on the Outlaws because that's sort of
[00:45:23] That embodied the persona of my pretend we were sort of the black sheep of the batain and training
[00:45:28] I feel like everything we did was wrong. I mean we get re-cocked on our
[00:45:32] Life fire lanes like every time in 2030 20 30 times like that mean I was the black sheep of the lieutenant
[00:45:37] I got it didn't go to any infantry training like hey, keep an eye on this guy
[00:45:40] So we're like we're the outlaws, you know screw it like that's who we're gonna be
[00:45:45] And you know I'm telling you my men
[00:45:48] They took that they embraced it man like they had these t-shirts and hoodies they rocked them everywhere
[00:45:53] They rocked everywhere like platoon's aren't supposed to have guidance and companies in fact
[00:45:56] I remember running with my platoon. They're all carrying this guy out of my batain commander runs by and he's like
[00:46:01] What are these idiots doing hey, you know, you're not supposed to have a platoon got it didn't matter
[00:46:05] Like carry it everywhere and and when we got to Afghanistan that
[00:46:09] You know, I'll just sit and brought me on board with branding in a big way, you know, they these guys
[00:46:14] That that became their collective identity, you know, and that's the thing about the military that is truly remarkable right like they
[00:46:22] They teach you to shoot movement communicate together and then you go to combat and you fight bleeding
[00:46:28] Died together, you know, and that's one of the things I always talk about about going home is like when you come home
[00:46:32] It's like okay now everyone goes there separate ways
[00:46:34] It's like runs completely contrary to how you're trained, which is I think part of the reason why men struggle men and women struggle so much
[00:46:40] but
[00:46:41] Yeah, we emric designed this
[00:46:45] Outwaltune logo and then they started my men just started designing stencils of it and put it on the ballistic turrets of their trucks and their doors and it's like
[00:46:52] Pain it on their four-lept or flicks or whatever and I don't know what you guys call it
[00:46:57] But flicks as I've we called it it just became who we were and
[00:47:01] You know we got in a few fights and we started to
[00:47:06] Did you know we started to have this reputation in our area of operations of like
[00:47:10] The green skulls and it got to be weird listen to the the enemies communications on their little icons and they be like
[00:47:16] Oh, it's the green skulls like wait for another unit where like
[00:47:18] That's what I'm talking about yeah, yeah, yeah, it was it was it was it was I mean
[00:47:24] I can't like I can't even overstit I can't even believe that I lived this life. Oh, you know
[00:47:28] I look back at it. I'm like it seems surreal because it's not
[00:47:32] You know what I'm not I'm not the
[00:47:35] You know I feel like every veteran today has to be like a big MMA guy
[00:47:39] Like a huge rifles and you know
[00:47:41] I saw something on your make-out inside not that's I love it my man to say like you know
[00:47:46] You're last Instagram me some video view poem back this big bone like God damn
[00:47:49] I got to go on a podcast of this guy like I was just playing Pokemon with my son
[00:47:54] I'm not this is not who I am you know this guy's gonna kill me
[00:48:00] No, that's awesome, but so yeah, I mean I ripped off
[00:48:04] Colonel David Hackworth and the book about face re-heary names his his battalion the hardcore right and that's why when I took over
[00:48:13] Tasking to Bravo at seal team three I changed tasking to bruiser same thing like this is what we're gonna be
[00:48:18] Yes, normal and it's like the person did it become like oh yes personality
[00:48:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:48:24] There's a lot. Yeah, I mean it's a little like I go out work with companies
[00:48:29] I'll go out work with companies I met this guy. He's like we named our like construction shift shifts
[00:48:36] So every shift has their own name and then they're like trying to how compete each other on who can get more love
[00:48:41] That stuff right well, I mean, I mean look we had a battalion football game like all we were the outlaws
[00:48:46] They were they had their own little uniforms man. I mean they they rolled into that football game with some serious attitude man
[00:48:52] We ended up winning I mean it's just you know it is powerful. I mean it helps galvanize people under a common banner
[00:48:57] I think that if you're a leader
[00:48:59] You know obviously humble
[00:49:01] Big eyes big ears listen, but like part of your job is to galvanize people bring people together from all walks of life and a great way to do it is to come up with a
[00:49:08] Yeah, a name a unit a symbol out of about you know and so
[00:49:13] Us versus the world I didn't know what the hell I was doing at the time I just listened to my NCOs, but it seemed to work
[00:49:17] You know they were 100% right
[00:49:21] You're continuing to making the rounds talking to some of your guys in the platoon and you go up and talk to a guy that's well
[00:49:27] I guess you wouldn't say in your platoon as your turf this name is Abdul and you go up to him and
[00:49:32] You ask him why do you do this job? He didn't speak it first instead
[00:49:36] He dug his two is MRE pouch and found a package or cracker Teele as you open to me said
[00:49:42] At the beginning of the war my father worked for the Americans at fobs skin my saying there I can't
[00:49:46] Yeah, I couldn't conceal my surprise in my voice really doing what?
[00:49:51] Interpreter his answer intrigued me is he still working there more silence
[00:49:57] Abdul studied his exposed cracker took a bite then glance back to me. He's dead
[00:50:05] I didn't know what to say he was killed by the Taliban four years ago
[00:50:09] We received night letters. I
[00:50:13] sat down peering at Abdul intently
[00:50:16] Is that why you do this he nodded every mission I go on. I avenge my father's death
[00:50:22] I'm the head of the house now. It is my duty that explained everything his courage under fire
[00:50:28] The trust cappin Kennedy had placed in him his standing with the locals
[00:50:33] I understood why he didn't cover his face. He wanted the enemy to know what he was doing
[00:50:39] How about you, Lieutenant? Why are you here?
[00:50:41] I opened a bottle of water and down half of it thinking back to the day I had found purpose in my life
[00:50:48] Unconsciously I touch the St. Christopher's metal at my throat
[00:50:54] September 11th I said simply
[00:51:00] So
[00:51:02] Abdul
[00:51:03] Yeah, a good guy. He's a great guy. And just great
[00:51:06] Explain night letters a little bit. Yeah night letters are you know if you're a
[00:51:12] If you're known in country to be working with the Americans and the bad guys know
[00:51:16] That you're working with the Americans they'll start finding out where you live and start sending letters to your family at night
[00:51:22] And Abdul's family in this regard would wake up every day
[00:51:26] Walk out to their front door and there'd be a letter stape odor
[00:51:28] You know nailed to their front door, which is basically threats like if if
[00:51:32] If Abdul continues to work with and support the Americans we're gonna kill him and kill your family and so
[00:51:39] Abdul would get word of these night letters
[00:51:43] On our base now we were at Ford operating base for Mel and so Burmel was about five clicks from the border and right south
[00:51:50] Just directly south east of us were scanned 45 minute drive south was scanning and they would
[00:51:55] Army special forces would rotate in and out of there and skin is sort of famous for being co-located with with what they call an Afghanistan
[00:52:01] The Alamo, which is a like a little bee hut where like these you know secret squirrel types would sit there with like
[00:52:08] They're a little calm stuff and listen to like what the Taliban were talking about
[00:52:11] But there is there's an outpost there and Abdul's family lived right there
[00:52:15] So they lived right in the thick of it and Abdul was a guy that
[00:52:19] He didn't this was back in the day before the Americans did the hiring of the interpreters like
[00:52:23] Officially like you know I think task force tight and was what they were in Afghanistan while I mean
[00:52:27] But when I was in Afghanistan it was like hey, you know you get 10,000 bucks from your talk
[00:52:31] From the tactical operations center pay the interpreters type thing first start and going out and paying that's how we hired him
[00:52:36] But Abdul was just a great find and where we were in Afghanistan specifically in Pactica province
[00:52:43] They spoke was Erie I mean they didn't speak post you or Dari or Farcey they spoke was Erie
[00:52:48] So you would you'd get an interpreter from Kabul or something like that and they couldn't even go to the language
[00:52:52] So you had to have somebody local
[00:52:54] Abdul knew most of the bad guys that we're fighting at least the the bad guys that were local to the area
[00:52:59] And he just in a big FU to them. He's not wearing a mask. He's in the fight just like we are and
[00:53:05] You know that's that that's I realized in that moment that most Afghans are on the front lines just like Americans a lot of Afghans
[00:53:12] They want they want the same things that that we have here
[00:53:15] You know and they're willing to fight for it and Abdul was one of those people
[00:53:19] So he's getting those nightletters
[00:53:22] Eventually they they escalate to a point where he bails and he leaves camp. Yes, and
[00:53:27] This going back to the book the next morning out wall puttoon rose early to prepare for another long patrol mission
[00:53:34] This time we'd be out beyond the wire for another six days task with setting up snap checkpoints and observation posts
[00:53:39] All over our area of operation. We sorted beyond the wire heading into our area of operations
[00:53:44] 5-Hum Vs strong
[00:53:46] We had gone we hadn't gone far when I got a radio call from the base operation center telling us to turn around and come home
[00:53:52] There was no explanation. We swung around and drove back through the main gate
[00:53:55] Soldiers were running in different directions and there was a charged atmosphere that had been lacking when we left
[00:54:01] We dismounted saw Bill and Baldwin linked up with me and the idea was going on sir
[00:54:05] Baldwin asked me no, let me see if I can find out turn them trucks around and make sure everyone stays close
[00:54:10] Roger sir. I walked this to the operation center when they found first Sergeant Christopher
[00:54:15] What I found first first Sergeant Christopher overseeing controlled chaos when I asked what was going on
[00:54:21] He said delta found the body of a local national so
[00:54:30] You guys go out they find a body along along a road they send you guys out to go and
[00:54:36] See what see what's going on identify the body see if you can figure anything out and here you guys
[00:54:42] You guys find the body it's next to a bike
[00:54:45] Alongside the road and here we go back to the book we drew alongside and stopped
[00:54:49] Lieutenant Marbury
[00:54:51] Had been right the cyclist had been shot in the leg it was twisted under him in an awkward position
[00:54:56] What do you think happened? I asked
[00:54:58] Waverly said nothing his eyes were devoid of emotion
[00:55:02] But I knew him to be a sensitive man inside he must have been really leaders make decisions
[00:55:07] Based on the best information available and a thorough game boarding of possible outcomes
[00:55:11] But even the most competent leaders cannot account for everything
[00:55:15] Life has a way of breeding unintended consequences if it was abdule
[00:55:18] He would shoulder the guilt of this day for the rest of his life
[00:55:22] Lieutenant Marbury looked back up the road and spoke softly
[00:55:26] I'd say he was coming back north out of skin was ambushed here
[00:55:30] Maybe we maybe he tried to drive through it, but he got hit in the leg and fell off the bike
[00:55:34] I nodded made sense so far
[00:55:37] See how his leg is broken too probably happened when he hit the ground
[00:55:41] Blood can geal around the leg wound
[00:55:44] Flies were lapping at it
[00:55:45] Marbury continued he tried to get away, but they caught him executed him
[00:55:51] See the bullet hole in the back of his head I
[00:55:54] hadn't seen it. I couldn't take my eyes off the flies
[00:55:58] You have to look if it's abdule at the very least you owe in that
[00:56:03] Some of the squad leaders had called Lieutenant Taylor and me turplovers
[00:56:07] They'd been through a tour here already and they'd come away with disdain for and
[00:56:11] Distrust of almost all afghans they'd seen betrayals
[00:56:16] They'd seen that here
[00:56:18] Loyalty shifted like the desert sands as
[00:56:21] Armor from such things they built a wall between themselves and the people we were sent to protect
[00:56:26] We bent down and unstrapped his helmet
[00:56:28] When we pulled it off black red putting drizzle out of it the lifeless head flopped into the dirt
[00:56:35] Lieutenant Marbury was right the man had been shot in the back of the head
[00:56:38] I could see the entry run surrounded by matted black hair
[00:56:43] It was abdule
[00:56:48] And then you guys actually went to his families house. Yeah, that was a that was a terrible day. I mean
[00:56:57] You know as you did you have to deliver the body yeah
[00:57:01] Yeah
[00:57:03] And abdule had you know I think I mean a brother that was probably like 10 years younger than him in younger sisters younger than that
[00:57:12] and
[00:57:13] I mean his and his mom was like the
[00:57:16] I mean that little boy was like the patriarch of the family and his mom was sort of one in the show
[00:57:20] And I remember delivering the body to her and I remember just watching from afar from far away
[00:57:25] I think Lieutenant Marbury walked up with the body
[00:57:28] With with our company commander and I remember just watching her collapse at the front of her at the front of her
[00:57:34] Colot
[00:57:36] And I remember least that the little boy ran around to this wood bow on the side and he collapsed on the side
[00:57:41] Maybe it was just a terrible
[00:57:42] It was just a terrible
[00:57:44] situation and
[00:57:45] You know I've told which complained about these nightletters all the time and he would say I really need to get back to my house to take care of my family
[00:57:51] He'd talked to me commander Sean like I need to get back there and so we'd go to our commander and and talk to him about it and say look
[00:57:57] We've got to give Abdul leave to go back and sort of take care of his family and our commander ended up he ended up shooting that down
[00:58:04] Because in order for Abdul to get down there safely down and back safely we'd have to
[00:58:09] Diver an infantry pretending to bring him to a squad and we simply did not have the combat power to do it
[00:58:13] Yep, and Abdul will end up in the middle of the night because we denied it hopped on his little dirt bike
[00:58:19] drove down there linked up with his family. He was ambush somewhere on the way back to our base and
[00:58:23] And like I mean it happened exactly as I described we get shot in the leg the flips off the bike
[00:58:29] Tumbles off the bike and takes a bullet right to the back of the head and was executed right there by people who wanted him dead
[00:58:35] And they they you know that was my that was my first experience with losing somebody that you know
[00:58:40] He wasn't a member of my poutine, but he he was fighting with us. You know he's an ally and
[00:58:47] Man, I
[00:58:49] Learn I think the I think the title of that chapter was like I remember thinking like man the enemy has a long dark reach
[00:58:53] They could hit you anywhere anytime and
[00:58:56] Yeah, that's they they they they they're sophisticated. They're smart fighters. They they're they're some of the world's best light infantry
[00:59:03] They know how to they not a bait infantry battoons out of bases and bait people out of bases for that matter
[00:59:07] They did that with Abdul and they caught him in a and a near ambush on the way back and it sucked
[00:59:13] It sucked and so we were left with we lost our best interpreter which was the bridge between us and the local populace
[00:59:18] And I feel like
[00:59:21] I feel like things went downhill from there. I mean because
[00:59:24] You know you never really know what these interpreters are saying is the translation is accurate
[00:59:30] Yeah, and Abdul I mean there was one of those things like my platoon sergeant and some of my more seniors at NCOs never truly trusted any of our interpreters
[00:59:39] But
[00:59:40] Abdul was one of the good ones and when we lost him shit just went downhill
[00:59:44] You're saying the book the assassination the assassination made the war personal for all of us
[00:59:51] Suddenly Abdul's younger brother bolted through the front of the door and ran to a nearby woodbilly dropped to his knees covered his head with his arms and began to sob
[00:59:58] The moment had no end
[01:00:00] We stir our visual game faces secured but beneath them we see
[01:00:08] The grief I'd felt as I stood in the ditch next to his body had given away to a slow burning rage
[01:00:13] Rage at the enemy rage at the decision that it led to his death rage that we had been unable to help the one
[01:00:19] Afghan upon whose loyalty we could always depend left without him
[01:00:23] I feared what would happen the next time I had to interact with major ghoul or any of his ill
[01:00:30] Yeah, because you literally you put a lot of faith in those turps man he was with us everywhere man
[01:00:35] And like there were you know even the 173rd everyone that was there before us like
[01:00:38] The this is the guy that would charge into ambushes with American troops like it the war was personal for him and
[01:00:46] And in that moment it was personal for us to
[01:00:53] So you're out on patrol you're in the humvies and
[01:00:59] Here we go back to the book the hackles on my next and suddenly stood straight up
[01:01:03] My nerves jangled spell bound by a sensation unfelt before
[01:01:07] What the hell perhaps I was getting the seriously dehydrated?
[01:01:12] I opened the water bottle in my hands my lips curled around its plastic rim
[01:01:16] Just as Baldwin's home v exploded first split second a bubble of orange flame sprouted from its right side
[01:01:22] The rig lurched hard left as it shock absorbed the violent blast
[01:01:28] Another flame ball boiled underneath the humvie
[01:01:31] Guards of dirt and smoke spewed horizontally from out from between the tires and instant later the fire vanished
[01:01:37] Replace by curls of black smoke haloed by swirling dusk
[01:01:41] Macloud I said that right yes
[01:01:44] Macloud Baldwin's gunner disappeared out of the turret leaving the barrel of the of his M2 50 cow
[01:01:50] Heavy machine gun pointing skyward bald wind I dropped the water bottle
[01:01:54] Before it hit my lap a third bloom of fire sporought spawned midway between our two humvies my truck
[01:02:01] Trimbled and suddenly it sounded as if someone was making popcorn
[01:02:05] Shrapnel on the armor plate the smoke and dirt shrouded Baldwin's home v from view
[01:02:12] I heard a sharp explosion behind us
[01:02:14] Quickly followed by several more the ground quaint again the water bottle shifted fell over my thigh and spilled down my pant leg
[01:02:21] Pin halt is that right pin halt sat next to me with his glove pants tied on the humvie steering wheel
[01:02:27] Sweat trickled down the side of his head more beating on his forehead just below the rim of his helmet
[01:02:33] He looked at me his face tense but his eyes determined
[01:02:37] He was waiting for me to make a decision
[01:02:40] A head more smoke swirled around Baldwin's humvie beyond it. I could see our I could see our afghan National Army A and A cohorts
[01:02:47] Bailing out of their toy owed a high looks pick up trucks toward the top of the Noel the afghan soldiers never the pictures of discipline ran this way
[01:02:54] And that with their weapons held at the low ready a few flopped into the road
[01:02:59] Into the dirt on the either side of the vehicles all this vanished off the road sprinting as they fired randomly from the hip
[01:03:06] Between the explosions the drum beat of
[01:03:09] Machine guns rang out from both sides of us
[01:03:12] This is just
[01:03:14] Get some yes, so that was my first that is my first fire fight. This is the first time I was ever shot at and like
[01:03:23] Oh my gosh, I don't even know where to start. Well, one of the things that I thought of first in that moment was like
[01:03:30] Holy shit there is a group of people out there that once me dead
[01:03:37] They've never met me before they don't know me, you know, but they want me dead and like
[01:03:43] When there's somebody out there trying to kill you
[01:03:47] The first time you experienced that sensation
[01:03:52] It's just you've never felt it before in your life and
[01:03:56] That's what I was feeling in that moment and so just to give you sense so
[01:03:59] It was held top two four seven four right on our military map is
[01:04:04] 2474 feet above the 7,000 feet that we're already at
[01:04:07] Arpaltoon was tasked with doing an observation post on the backside of that hill and so we had to pull around that hill
[01:04:14] Right to the to the eastern portion of that hill
[01:04:17] So our humbese and his big column pull around the hill
[01:04:19] We drive down into what looks like this depression almost like driving down into a gravy boat
[01:04:24] We're at the bottom of that gravy boat outside the right of my door. I'm looking down and I couldn't even open my door
[01:04:31] And step out of it right because there was a sheer water right to my right and it ran through your stuck there
[01:04:36] Yes, and onto the left was this cliff and so we get around there and there are four a and a high-luxed pick-up trucks in front of us and just all hell breaks loose from both sides
[01:04:47] The enemy that day had ambushes from both sides
[01:04:50] Vali fired RPGs at both the front and rear of my humbese
[01:04:55] Probably four or five RPGs right off the bat and opened up with crew serve weapons
[01:05:00] And I remember looking up from my humbese and to the left and to the right and there were three crew serve machine guns on either ridge top
[01:05:06] I could see their flickering other firing and they were trained. They were barking the guns which means that
[01:05:10] They had enough training to like shoot the crew servicing gun let the barrel cool next guy picks up the food
[01:05:16] I mean it just was the craziest
[01:05:18] They were good. They were good. They were good and then another you had a send an alshaped ambush and so
[01:05:24] So for me as a leader I remember looking at pinhold pinhold is looking at me. He's got these big bright blue eyes and it's like
[01:05:30] You know you're in training. It's like you they always say hey make a decision sir make a decision
[01:05:34] Make a decision though. This is like my make a decision moment and
[01:05:38] You know, there's no assault through a near ambush. There's no dismounting in the middle of that and assaulting
[01:05:43] I mean they had planned this ambush in the perfect spot knowing that I couldn't assault through it right
[01:05:49] There's no driving through it because they they used the anA as a roadblocks
[01:05:52] We couldn't push through the kilzone established fire superiority on the high ground
[01:05:56] I had I had nothing nothing
[01:05:59] There was nothing in that moment that I could do or execute that was from a field manual that would have gotten us out of live and so
[01:06:05] I knew that you know I had seconds to make a decision and
[01:06:09] I knew that whatever decision it was had to be bold and had to be bold enough that my men saw it and
[01:06:15] Not only did they have to see it, but they had to move out and draw fire with me and so I got out of the truck in the middle of the kilzone and
[01:06:22] Remember I remember getting out of the truck and so like there's chaos in the truck and then there's chaos outside the truck
[01:06:28] And I get out of the truck and it's just like shit is hitting the fan all around me man
[01:06:33] And I'm like looking around I hear this big crack and turns out it's this dragon off sniper
[01:06:37] I've got some sniper that's trying to shoot at me. I'm watching these rounds impact all around my feet and my first thought was like
[01:06:45] Immediately regret this decision, you know and I like looking pinhole and he's like
[01:06:49] He's like what are you doing? And I remember shutting the door and I just started hauling ass of the top of the hill because I knew I had to get the anA
[01:06:56] Into their trucks
[01:06:58] You hauled ass forward forward up the hill up your towards the front of your patrol
[01:07:03] Yep, I hear the hills remember get to the anass and I remember running past Baldwin's truck
[01:07:07] Which was smoking and on fire, but not I'll get you with an RPG. Yes, yeah
[01:07:12] And I'll tell you what like those up armor hunt these man like
[01:07:16] That they were still combat effective. They were all in that truck the RPG said was RPG seven
[01:07:21] So it wasn't like anything armor piercing, but they were all still in the fight
[01:07:24] And I remember looking in the window. I remember just banging on Baldwin's up armor at Humvee window
[01:07:30] And I just sort of gave him the infantry follow me thing
[01:07:32] There's so much smoke and there's so much shit going on. I didn't even know if you really saw and I remember
[01:07:37] Running up the hill on the way there my muscles were filled with lead I'm making it at
[01:07:41] 10,000 feet there's like mile high stadium football game times two and I'm like oh my god like
[01:07:48] You know because it's a young leader you're always afraid of like making a mistaken combat and drawing the item
[01:07:53] Just failing your troops and I was I'm not worried
[01:07:57] I just I remember worrying about oh my god man that I just make the biggest mistake in my life
[01:08:03] That I just like totally make a stupid decision in combat are these guys gonna even follow me
[01:08:08] I never gave him an order over the radio
[01:08:11] In fact I couldn't even use our radios because
[01:08:14] The that hilltop was obscuring our line of sight comms to our base, you know
[01:08:17] There was so much shit going down and the kilzone that my squad leaders were occupying the two net yelling back and four third
[01:08:23] I mean it was just some half way up on like Jesus Christ
[01:08:27] I didn't give an order I'm I'm I'm I'm even gonna follow me. I'm like almost out of the fight
[01:08:31] You know I got rounds impacting all around me and I remember turning around
[01:08:34] I see and balled when charging up the hill after me and then we charging up the hill after him and then my mortar guy
[01:08:39] With a 60 millimeter mortar in handheld like slung over his back with mortar round. I mean like my entire
[01:08:44] Poutine started following me up that hill that day and and it was one of those things it was just like
[01:08:52] You know they followed me up to the top of the hill
[01:08:54] We also cover up at the top got the A&A back in there and their trucks
[01:08:58] Had him pushed through the kilzone we got our trucks up there established fire superiority and then we just ran down into the teeth the enemy
[01:09:03] And tax them and killed those little bastards
[01:09:05] It was like a three hour fire fight, but we hunted them down and brought it and after two or three hours of patchy's came in so it helped us
[01:09:11] So so it helped us cut off their x-fill routes and by the time we got up and we're firing
[01:09:17] I mean we had crew service shingons and our weapons were rocking on the tops of our trucks, but we were able to establish
[01:09:22] Combs on their base where we had two 105 millimeter howitzers that were firing and I already had how long did it take to get the 105's up
[01:09:28] But when we were up there seconds because I already had TRP's plotted on so once you got to the top of the hill
[01:09:32] Yeah, got radio comms a minute a minute after that and by the way
[01:09:36] Yeah, it what I mean, but but our gun bunnies were amazing
[01:09:39] Our our artillery guys were incredible, but I already
[01:09:43] Coordinated with our tactical operations center on where I thought the enemy would ex-fill and I gave them hey
[01:09:47] If I say fire TRP one like this is where you're this is what you're firing
[01:09:51] Target prepel inspires yeah, it was I mean the the object of the infantry is to kick boots on the objective
[01:09:57] Right like if we're in a fight we're doing it wrong, you know, so
[01:10:00] Estilaminifiers was something that I was a big believer and we didn't really get the execute at that day
[01:10:05] But you know the goal is is you know you're you know
[01:10:07] You're if we if we know we're doing a movement to contact
[01:10:11] I want to make sure that my howitzers are firing every second until my men get on that objective and then we stop fire
[01:10:17] With the guns and then we exploit with boot with boots on the ground
[01:10:19] Right and to give the enemy very little reaction time
[01:10:22] But that day we didn't have that so we improvised we improvised and then I mean remember charging
[01:10:27] Tardin directly east and I think we killed I think
[01:10:30] I mean we got attacked by like probably 30 or 40 guys that day
[01:10:33] I think that was what the report said in the aftermath
[01:10:35] I think we killed six or seven of them
[01:10:37] At least you know, I mean couldn't really find any
[01:10:43] They're so good at casivac, but
[01:10:45] We killed at least six or seven of them that day and and for me like I remember coming back to the defac and at the end of that fight
[01:10:51] I didn't even know if I still didn't know if if I had made a colossal mistake and I'm gonna walk into the defac
[01:10:56] And it was like it was like that moment in Hoosier's here see that movie that who is like the slow-clap
[01:11:00] I like walking to the defac
[01:11:02] I think my ancio's are gonna kick my ass and they just like say bo stands up first and my god
[01:11:06] Jesus, you know, he's gonna kill me. He stands up he starts clapping
[01:11:10] It was like some goddamn thing on a rudier something, you know like that guy
[01:11:13] We're gonna carry me on there. So I mean it was I swear to Christ, you know
[01:11:18] Being a father's a greatest thing in the entire world, but that moment was one of
[01:11:22] I don't think there would never be a moment in my life, but I think it professionally anyway the word that peaks that you know in my men
[01:11:28] So look there's there's earning your troops respect from shielding them from garrison bullshit and allowing them to
[01:11:34] Try and I feel like that's an officer and leaders roll like I'll hand or the I'll hand or the collective stuff you hand at the individual training
[01:11:40] You can earn your respect that way, right?
[01:11:43] But you know, none of that shit matters you get your you get one chance in combat to do it and I feel like that was my chance
[01:11:50] It didn't it didn't go perfect. Um, I mean we got shot up pretty bad, but I mean we came out of there. It was like
[01:11:58] It was most of our it was most of our first experience getting shot at for the most part, you know
[01:12:01] And and like a really serious way like that. I mean everyone has a couple pot shots fired
[01:12:05] I don't I think all my insuas have had that, but
[01:12:08] Man that was like a four hour
[01:12:12] I mean we got trapped in the kilzone of an ambush the waterway out of it nightmare. It was a nightmare. It was a nightmare and
[01:12:17] We came out of that and it was like I remember just being like ACUs were like our army combat uniforms were like just
[01:12:23] DRAWS has drenched, you know
[01:12:25] Walking in I mean the defa everyone's got their little trays and they're like high five and everybody was like you know like
[01:12:30] Imagine being an artist you training to be an artist and never painting a painting right and we've finally got to paint our painting
[01:12:36] You know we got finally got to experience combat and it was a great thing and it was pretty cool
[01:12:40] I mean it was cool for that like one time the hundreds of time after that it gets it gets uncool very quickly
[01:12:45] But it was cool that one time that victory
[01:12:49] So yeah
[01:12:50] Rudy
[01:12:52] Defak
[01:12:54] As good as it gets and I'm going back to the book here after all the stuff goes down later that night as I lay in bed
[01:13:00] Unable to sleep despite my exhaustion. I felt the flip side of that victory
[01:13:07] Braze
[01:13:08] 50 thunderd a man's arm was torn from his body. I reveled in that moment the mortar machine gun
[01:13:15] The mortar machine gun nest was a channel site men blown apart leave a vile sneaking mess
[01:13:20] Ruin bowels the copper scent of blood bits and pieces nothing more defiled by firepower
[01:13:27] I'd watched Garrett score that hit and felt enraptured
[01:13:32] Victory was evident in every kill and none of my men had been hit an infantry leader could not ask for anything more
[01:13:40] But what about the man you are I am a warrior where's the human side?
[01:13:44] Ugly thoughts boiled within me unformed terrifying they swirled around in my head as if my
[01:13:51] Atmined had tumbled across some truth my subconscious could not face today. I watched a man get blown to pieces
[01:13:59] I did what I had to do as a soldier to win a desperate battle. Yes, but what about a man? What about the man you wanted to be?
[01:14:06] How did you serve him today? I tried to drive the fought from my mind
[01:14:10] Can Sean the human coexist with Sean the combat leader?
[01:14:17] Today we had felt the indescribable rush created by bloodlust survival and victory
[01:14:23] It had bonded my platoon in ways I couldn't quite grasp now as I tossed in my bed
[01:14:28] I wondered how we would ever return to our former selves after what this fight had done to us
[01:14:35] We were becoming exactly what I did not know yet
[01:14:39] But just sensing the permanence of the transformation inspired more fear than anything else
[01:14:45] I had faced that day
[01:14:46] Restless I rose from bed and stepped into the block afghan night
[01:14:52] I never felt farther away from home than at that moment
[01:14:57] Coming down yeah, you know I feel like
[01:15:02] I mean, God I remember like I remember this just like it was yesterday man laying in that bed
[01:15:06] I couldn't sleep I mean, I was exhilarated but I couldn't sleep and it was like one of those things it's like
[01:15:13] Like Jesus Christ like I sat I was cheering I was
[01:15:17] Loved every second of killing the enemy was the greatest feeling up until that point in time in my life. It was the greatest feeling
[01:15:24] But then I couldn't escape the fact is like what does this say about who I am and the person that I'm becoming and what does it mean?
[01:15:30] About like how are we as Americans what are we different? How are we different on the battlefield?
[01:15:34] Like the juxtaposition of two cells like warrior and civilian you know
[01:15:40] You know just straight killer or liberator and protector and like I it to me in that moment
[01:15:47] You know, I think just think the awesome responsibility of being a young leader whether you're a young
[01:15:51] NCO team leader squad leader
[01:15:53] Paltoon sergeant Paltoon they didn't matter
[01:15:55] Um every leader in combat has a moral obligation to be the moral compass of their Paltoon or their unit their small unit and that means that
[01:16:04] You've got to do everything that you can to keep those troops when they're in the shit
[01:16:09] Tethered to who they are you know not let them
[01:16:13] Reveal in the bloodlust too much because if you do that you lose who you are you lose you lose what you lose your human side and for me
[01:16:21] You know me caught man like we went through 485 days of that hell and if we didn't if we weren't constantly connected and tethered to our human side
[01:16:34] That it would have been a fate a terrible fate for every single member of that Paltoon
[01:16:38] The likes which many of those men that I served with would not have been able to escape from I feel like and
[01:16:43] Because believe me you know you're there for eight months man if you're there for eight months
[01:16:47] Uh, you get attacked so much and so often and the enemy never relance
[01:16:54] But you have to stay disciplined you have to you have to stay above it you have to you have to you have to make the hard right decision
[01:17:01] You can't just open fire and do a group of villagers even though you know they knew exactly where that idea was placed and money
[01:17:07] You know I mean you have to stay above it. You have to stay disciplined. You have to stay tethered to your human self and in that moment
[01:17:13] I had no idea what the hell I was becoming but I knew that I was changing in a way that I might not like so much
[01:17:21] And I'm glad well the good the good part about this is you actually recognize this because
[01:17:27] This is a
[01:17:29] This is something that you don't always recognize right I mean you start getting angry at the enemy and the enemy what the people that you are calling the enemy that that
[01:17:40] That that definition starts can start to grow right it can start to grow to cover like you just said the villagers that knew the
[01:17:47] ID was there well they knew that well if they knew that then they're the enemy and it's really
[01:17:52] easy
[01:17:53] For that
[01:17:54] Transition to take place and for that word to start to cover a much broader definition than what it should cover by
[01:18:01] The moral law and by the the actual law absolutely absolutely and so
[01:18:06] The bottom line is is it it's our job it's our job is is an infantry and I got to believe in a seal
[01:18:13] But tune even probably in a more precise way to close with you know find fixed finish close with the story of the enemy
[01:18:18] Kill them when they're on the battlefield
[01:18:21] But when they're you know one of the things that I talked about with my men a lot right it was something that like
[01:18:26] We trained all the time by the way and we addressed this in our training the enemy would did would hone and
[01:18:31] Evolve their TTPs and so we would as well we never stopped training and so that was how we were different from the lot of the other units in Afghanistan
[01:18:37] I think can come back on the base and just chill and relax, but no you've got a train you've got a train on
[01:18:42] escalation of force and in that as part of that training
[01:18:46] Whether you're evolving your TTPs or otherwise
[01:18:49] You've got to talk to them about our responsibility on the battlefield to take care of the enemy if they're wounded
[01:18:54] You know I cannot tell you how many times I had you know
[01:18:57] I had troops that
[01:18:58] Soldiers that wanted to put a bullet in a guy that was wounded on the battlefield how I wanted to with every fiber of who I was
[01:19:03] But you got to play the long game and think like if
[01:19:07] If you do take that person's life who will you be ten years from now 20 years from now? Will you regret that decision and
[01:19:13] You know the charge of a leader if you're gonna be a leader of a small unit in combat when you when you're responsible for lives
[01:19:19] You've got to be planning and thinking like that and so
[01:19:23] Yeah, it'd be great to take that guy off the battlefield and put a bullet in their head, but
[01:19:27] You're not taking care of your troops if you're a liar guys to do that as far as I know because they're gonna end up in jail exactly and then you actually that's something
[01:19:36] I
[01:19:39] We we we received a
[01:19:41] A brief that we're supposed to give our guys and I did give it to my guys put the the
[01:19:46] The overall broad
[01:19:48] Like meaning of the briefless take your morals on the battlefield, right?
[01:19:53] Yes, and I actually said hey guys
[01:19:55] This is what they're telling you to do take your morals on the battlefield. I'm gonna tell you guys don't do that
[01:20:00] Don't do that what I want you to do is I actually want you to fall the law because here's the deal
[01:20:04] what you just said what I just said like
[01:20:07] morally if you
[01:20:10] Set an ID or you
[01:20:12] Fireed an RPG and you killed a bunch of my guys. I feel like morally I can kill you
[01:20:16] Yeah, and that's okay
[01:20:19] But if you don't have a weapon anymore and
[01:20:21] You're surrendering guess what legally I can't kill you and so what you actually have to do is you have to actually follow what the law is
[01:20:31] you guys
[01:20:32] You know and I I know for I know the way I felt like when my guys got wounded when my guys got killed
[01:20:38] I wanted to kill everyone
[01:20:40] Everyone all the
[01:20:41] So the earth rubble the buildings and turn the whole city into just just destruction
[01:20:46] And I told my guys that and I was like but we cannot do that and we are not going to do that because that is not legal
[01:20:54] And so what we do is we do the best we can with what the legalities are with the rules of engagement are well
[01:20:59] Follow-in will stick to them and we'll take the fight to the enemy. That's what we're gonna do
[01:21:02] But as I said
[01:21:04] that line is really
[01:21:07] really
[01:21:09] It's one of those lines that if you don't pay attention to it you can look up and you'd be way past that line
[01:21:14] I have no question. I mean for me as a leader
[01:21:17] I was not willing to delegate that you know I feel like in other words
[01:21:22] I always wanted to be I was wanted to be a part of that I was wanted to have some sort of command
[01:21:27] Command supervisor authority on that aspect of you know I was always in the fight
[01:21:32] I wanted to be in the fight I wanted to be a contact with a heavy
[01:21:34] I also wanted to be involved in those types of decisions and so I think you know you mentioned something about
[01:21:40] Just talking to your guys about how you feel too
[01:21:43] So many leaders in the military don't do that and what I mean by that is they it especially in the infantry
[01:21:49] Where leaders don't share their own vulnerabilities like hey man like I feel the same way that you do like I
[01:21:55] Want to go out there and kill every one of those little bastards. You know I feel the same pain that you do this hurts me just as much to see these men get wounded and killed like
[01:22:04] But we can't do that and so just being able to identify with your men on that level is it not only does it bring you closer to them
[01:22:09] I think it ingratiate them to you as a leader as well where they think like okay, you know my leader's not some abstract person out there
[01:22:16] He feels the same pain that we do he's in this with us and
[01:22:20] You know it goes back to sort of the established and that collected by identity like if you're a part of that collective identity as a leader
[01:22:26] I feel like those sorts of commands
[01:22:29] Are more likely to be to be followed in that line that you walk while it is a certainly a fine one
[01:22:35] Your best chance of staying on the right side of that is operating like that. No, yeah, if you're not connected to your guys
[01:22:43] So and and then and I know you know this
[01:22:47] You can go too far with that and all of a sudden you become one of the guys that you can't differentiate yourself
[01:22:52] And you've gone too far and you've crossed that line of your race friends and you're the friend and now
[01:22:56] Well, so when you say hey this is what we're gonna do you're not telling them that them that from a leader
[01:23:01] You're telling that that your opinion from another guy
[01:23:03] Yeah, exactly necessarily after listening to you because you're just you know I think different from you
[01:23:08] Okay, I'm gonna do what I think and then it becomes hey, hey, you know
[01:23:11] I need you to take that machine gunness and I need you to take it now
[01:23:13] Is at the top of that hell see I'm pointing to a go and then you have a squad
[01:23:16] Oh, wait, you're not you're sending me you're not sending your buddy
[01:23:20] And then you're like you're in crisis as a leader and to meet your combat in effect of the moment that that question is asked if if you're
[01:23:26] The moment if that question is asked you need to be really to command you know
[01:23:30] Um, yeah, leaders yeah, don't mistake like leadership with friendship that they're not synonymous at all
[01:23:36] You know you might be able to be a friend of your guys after the fact like when retired
[01:23:40] Sit around a table smoking stoke is drinking beer, but not while you're in combat
[01:23:43] It's just yeah
[01:23:45] That's why they say leadership is a lonely thing you know and and and like that and I
[01:23:49] Because I get this question all the time
[01:23:51] I had guys that work for me that were absolutely my friends 100% that I
[01:23:56] Did everything with what surf in a drink beer and did you get to and hang out 100%
[01:24:03] And those guys when I when when I said hey this is what we're doing it was like Roger
[01:24:08] No no question the thing is you don't know who's gonna have the professionalism in your poll tune to actually be able to do that with
[01:24:15] And that's why you have to take that relationship building very very slowly and
[01:24:20] If you just decide you're gonna be friends with everyone
[01:24:22] There's gonna be some guys that are gonna take advantage of the knock and be able to handle it's gonna be cause major problems and
[01:24:27] That means you can't be friends with anybody and
[01:24:30] Now you've created this distance and you'll you won't have the connection that you want so it's man
[01:24:34] This is why leadership is hard. Yeah, you know you you raise a great point. I mean I
[01:24:38] You know, I was close with my guys. I love my guys
[01:24:41] They were like my brothers in fact. I got two younger brothers and I love them too, but you know
[01:24:46] I can I can tell you who each one of my men is in the dark as they're walking away from a hundred meters away
[01:24:51] Just by how they just by their gate, you know, I feel so close with them. I had that bond with them
[01:24:56] And I feel like you know so much of leadership is just like showing up, you know showing that you care like
[01:25:01] Trooping the line and combat or walking through the barracks at night or just you know
[01:25:05] Being there with them in those little moments where you're not maybe
[01:25:08] Intimately involved pound and beers with them in the barracks, but you're like they see you they know you're there
[01:25:12] There is a there there is a way in which you can have a healthy strong
[01:25:17] I mean, I mean probably in the sealed teams
[01:25:20] It's you know to small your smaller unit and plus the guys that make you know go through sealed training and make it through sealed training
[01:25:25] Probably a little bit older than that young 18-year-old private's right you know
[01:25:28] I always had guys in my I would always have one or two guys that work for me that were like
[01:25:34] That were three four echelons blooming right that were E five's yeah and they were like fully trusted right
[01:25:41] Like I go into a him and what's going on with this guy over here and they say here's what's happening and
[01:25:45] They would never take advantage of but what I'm saying is you can build those relationships
[01:25:49] But you have to be very cautious when you do it because
[01:25:54] Like you said the minute the moment that that relationships
[01:25:59] That relationship that you have with one person negatively impacts the platoon you are a disaster and in combat that has a
[01:26:07] That split seconds hesitation or question could be death. Yeah, you know and you can't have it, you know
[01:26:12] Um, but yeah, I mean I it's it's interesting that you talk about the the dichotomy between
[01:26:19] Friendship and leadership right I mean I feel like my I'm so I love my guy
[01:26:23] So this day even pinhole he was knee four I was I was I was I was the first lieutenant at that time
[01:26:27] I mean he was my RTO he's my right hand man
[01:26:30] We talked about everything together from movies to TV shows or whatever
[01:26:34] I mean we had a great relationship together
[01:26:35] But he knew that when I said jump you better damn I'll jump you know and there's a lot of that is also making unpopular
[01:26:41] Assessant he's like hey sir, I don't want to be the RTO I'm like hey penal guys. Well, I don't give you shit
[01:26:44] What you think you're the you're my guy and like and pinhole to great example that because pinhole was a guy who was mature for his age
[01:26:51] He was smart and he got in you know and there's other guys that you couldn't form that kind of relationship
[01:26:56] But because they would immediately try and utilize that for their own benefit or what about it so that's
[01:27:02] That's what I'm saying I guess I just I just I just
[01:27:05] Because sometimes I think when leaders here while you can't be friends with anybody they think oh I got to be totally aloof and no one's gonna know me
[01:27:10] It's like no, no, no, no, you know what you're exactly right about that you know because there are you you're exactly right some
[01:27:17] Some officers or you know leaders and CEOs officers they do interpret it as that and then they're not involved at all
[01:27:24] You know horrible and it is terrible and there are gonna be guys that if you
[01:27:28] Bym a beard they're gonna think you're best friends
[01:27:30] They're gonna think they're gonna get preferential treatment on the
[01:27:32] You text and you hey sir, what do you up to what you want to go out to the button? No, I'm like yeah exactly
[01:27:37] It is a fine. It's a really good one
[01:27:40] It is for sure
[01:27:43] All right
[01:27:44] Going back to the book you guys had done that pretty I will call it a victory for lack of a better word second-putune had had a
[01:27:55] Probably the opposite into the spectrum here we go back to the book second-putune taken a beating
[01:27:59] We we had two on May 7th but they returned to the fob was totally different from ours
[01:28:04] Why it was all perception defeat comes in many forms most physically and psychologically second-putune had arrived
[01:28:11] Home a defeated force
[01:28:13] Though we hadn't destroyed the entire enemy force on May 7th and our counter attack had hit thin air as goolings men
[01:28:20] Broke contact with us. We'd still inflicted a lot of damage on them
[01:28:24] More important we stayed in the fight that
[01:28:26] Had given us a vital moral victory that second-putune hadn't experienced breaking contact on May 17th had been the right call
[01:28:35] Given the tactical circumstances, but its psychological effect it had on
[01:28:40] Burley's men was all too obvious their morale and confidence had taken
[01:28:45] Significant hits I could not let this happen to my guys ever
[01:28:49] How yeah, that's exactly right. I mean stay in the fight Dn that was the lesson there for me like I saw how some of some of
[01:28:58] And again right tactical systems sometimes you got a break contact right I mean, but no not for us in that moment like we made
[01:29:05] Every single one of my non-commission officers and I looked at each other after you know after we got back from that first firefight
[01:29:10] And we said to ourselves you know we saw how second-putune came back
[01:29:13] We saw how their men were ejected
[01:29:15] We saw that there are several different components to defeat but certainly physical and psychological or two-mate psychological
[01:29:22] The defeat is oftentimes worse right and we just said do each other like I don't give a shit what happens like
[01:29:28] I don't give a shit with the enemy throws at us. I don't care how they attack us
[01:29:31] We're gonna stand in fight. We're always gonna stay in the fight and we are not gonna be the first to leave the battlefield
[01:29:37] What's the bottom line like if the enemy's gonna attack us?
[01:29:40] We're gonna counter attack them until they are dead until they break contact from us and that's what we did
[01:29:44] And that's
[01:29:47] That's what we did sometimes it worked great
[01:29:50] Sometimes it didn't
[01:29:52] But we we held true to that promise. That's one of those attitudes that you know I call that attitude being
[01:29:58] Default aggressive like our default mode is we're gonna attack you that's the way it's gonna be and if you have that
[01:30:05] The amount of power that that gives to a to a team is like look if we get pushed
[01:30:12] We're gonna attack that's what we're gonna do if that's what everyone's thinking it gives you like a super power
[01:30:17] Because that's just a unified attitude that we're gonna go attack you absolutely and then and here's the thing
[01:30:23] It's empowering and you said it was empowering because it it empowers your soldiers or your troops to react on a
[01:30:30] Seconds notice there can be no hesitation when you're attacked if your if your position is
[01:30:34] Default aggression or in our case in outlook with him is like we're staying in the fight we're in the fight until the very end
[01:30:39] And your default is to attack all the time your men know exactly what they're supposed to do the moment that they get shot at the moment that you're attacked and it is to attack and
[01:30:48] One thing that is infinitely easier is to is to call guys and real them in like say okay guys
[01:30:54] Are guess what you know what we're not going like when you make the decision we're gonna break contact instead
[01:30:58] Okay, that's something that
[01:31:00] Where is if people don't know what they're gonna do and then you're telling them okay now we're going to attack you're trying to force that that's so very
[01:31:07] That's my totally more challenging than having to say okay guys look you put a lot of pressure on that's cool
[01:31:11] But I don't know what's over there and we're gonna break contact guys go. Okay. Well, I'm kind of bummed out because we were we were feeling good
[01:31:17] But okay, we'll break contact that is I didn't say this in the book, but I remember having this conversation as part of this conversation was
[01:31:24] We're sitting there talking to our leadership in the pertinent you've got E five leaders who are team leaders like they got like three to five people under their command and squad leaders who are nine to 12
[01:31:33] And I remember telling my my team leaders
[01:31:35] With my platoon sergeant
[01:31:38] You all need to be team leaders of people are on the front lines like when they get shot at they're the ones that are reacting oftentimes first
[01:31:44] Your bulldogs on a chain like right and to use your here for
[01:31:47] D-fault like that's what you need to be squad leaders. You need to dial them back
[01:31:52] Dial them back right, but they're the ones talking to me so we look to your point like if I'm on the radio saying okay
[01:31:58] Let's pull back the team leaders that's a hell of a lot easier than trying to get multiple units to attack
[01:32:03] Yeah, right because as a leader like God what people don't understand is as a young leader in combat
[01:32:08] Isn't not only are you trying to maneuver your troops and identify where the enemy is
[01:32:12] To to counterattack you've got a de-conflict air corridors
[01:32:16] You've got a brink you've got it if you've got a mortar and then you're firing a mortar and an Apache comes in and you stop firing the mortar
[01:32:22] So you don't knock the Apache out of the sky. I mean you've got a there's all sorts of things
[01:32:25] You've got to take into consideration
[01:32:27] So you have you almost have to have a default position
[01:32:30] And in combat it sure's how better be aggressive because like there's what else is there like you default defensive?
[01:32:38] No, that's not a thing and by the way those those moments those seconds that
[01:32:44] That it would take to
[01:32:46] Give the order of hey, we're gonna attack those seconds are the seconds where you actually win like those seconds are the time
[01:32:53] We win it's like oh yeah, we if we wait three seconds right now
[01:32:57] We give up the we give up the superior position to the enemy right now
[01:33:01] Oh my god no question. I mean at the at the at the height of our operational skill and Afghanistan
[01:33:08] Where we killed so many of the enemy and we were there for so long that we knew the train better than them
[01:33:13] It was it was just you know say battle drill, but it was almost like an un-arpotune as a collectively
[01:33:20] Reactor on unconscious level to these attacks to where
[01:33:22] Squat as team leaders and squads with attack instantly and I would have one of five's down range in less than 10 seconds on target
[01:33:30] I mean and it was just a it was just methodical it was just
[01:33:36] It was surgical and I don't think I've ever
[01:33:39] So I always look at like I've always been I've only been on like two championships sports teams in my life right
[01:33:44] Each time I think it's two more than me
[01:33:46] I know I'm definitely
[01:33:48] By only first place trophy in wrestling was my first year wrestling tournament. It was like this little trope is the only first one
[01:33:54] Only first place trophy I ever had
[01:33:57] But it was just there was something special about those teams when we won championship
[01:34:02] We just had it we had something I don't know what it was quality quality to the to the team that made a successful
[01:34:09] My普 Tune was like that you know it was like a
[01:34:11] You know there's another great
[01:34:13] Leadership point in throughout this book in that is that you had this awesome decentralized command going on and you
[01:34:22] You explain it you don't use the word decentralized command. I don't think but
[01:34:27] You you're explaining what's going on and you're like oh I got to the top of this perimeter and when I got there
[01:34:32] You know sergeant so and so was putting his machine gun over there sergeant so and so had this perimeter set up
[01:34:37] Sergeant so and so was taken some high ground over there
[01:34:39] Everyone you hadn't told them to do a damn thing all you said was like go up there and everybody okay
[01:34:44] Okay, okay the boss wants us to take the high ground when they get up there
[01:34:47] They look what obviously we could take the high ground we're gonna set up a perimeter where you get scared
[01:34:51] We're gonna set fire in lands. They did all that stuff themselves nice to explain that to these young
[01:34:56] Like task unit commanders
[01:34:57] You know they where where things would get bogged down and people be waiting like a fire team leader would be waiting to be told like hey
[01:35:04] Get your get your heavy weapon over on that corner so you get good vantage point over this direction where we're looking down in this value like
[01:35:13] You can't tell eight fire team leaders what to do I
[01:35:17] It's I used to tell my we used to train on this right I used to tell my team leaders and my subordinate leaders like first of all
[01:35:24] I want you to have the freedom and flexibility to react on your own
[01:35:28] But I need you to handle the implied task if I tell you that you need to go from point eight to point b and knock out that machine gun
[01:35:36] Nest I'm just gonna tell you go take out that machine gun Nest
[01:35:39] I'm not gonna tell you to maneuver to the rock and then stop and then set up your machine no
[01:35:43] It's it's up to you as a leader. I delegate back to you to just get it done because guess what?
[01:35:48] I don't have time for that shit. I got other things going on so and so that would to me
[01:35:52] It's like like any time a soldier would come up to me if a hey sir like where do you want me to put that mic hey, man?
[01:35:57] I need you to handle the applied task brother like you know go hand the way figure it out
[01:36:01] you know
[01:36:03] So there's a command of execution like my command of execution is
[01:36:07] Knock out that machine gun Nest or hold the line here
[01:36:11] They got to do what they got to do to do it. You know, I don't think you're done. Yeah, you got it and so to that extent
[01:36:15] I guess it is sort of decentralized
[01:36:17] That's absolutely decentralized. Your book is filled with decentralized command you guys ran it beautifully
[01:36:21] I just sort of stumbled upon it. I feel like you're you're the pro at it
[01:36:24] I just sort of stumbled upon it
[01:36:26] Well, it's somewhat of funny by practice it's really easy for me to recognize and you know
[01:36:29] Somewhere along the line someone told you like hey you better let your squad leaders do this or you figured out for yourself
[01:36:34] Hey, I can't I can't tell you exactly what to do. I'm gonna tell you
[01:36:38] You need to figure out how you're gonna get done and absolutely and when you do that I mean
[01:36:42] It's healthy for a unit and platoon and a team because there's a system sense of accomplishment
[01:36:46] If you're supporting at leaders when they get it done and do it right. Oh, yeah, and also there's a little something called ownership
[01:36:50] Which is you know when you tell me to go do something and I go and figure out how I'm gonna do it by myself
[01:36:56] Then I actually take ownership of getting it done and I feel even more accomplishment
[01:37:01] So I'm not just accomplishing what you told me to do I'm accomplishing what I figured out how we were gonna do
[01:37:06] No question and then when that happens it also makes people proud of their
[01:37:09] And then they start teaching their their lower and listed people on how to do it as well right and so
[01:37:15] Like that's our big thing is like I don't as a leader, right?
[01:37:19] I would tell all of my guys like I don't give we don't train for what we think combat would be like we train for
[01:37:25] We trained it like just react and react effectively so in order to do that
[01:37:30] Everybody in this platoon needs to know the job of the guy of an Ethan and the job of the guy above him and we train on all that stuff
[01:37:35] And so the hope was is that we could establish some form of decentralized command and
[01:37:40] each
[01:37:41] Troop each soldier in my platoon could perform
[01:37:44] The jobs it we're it's true. I mean God you take a you take a casually somebody to get Scott for a bit somebody gets killed
[01:37:49] Somebody immediately has to step in that Trent step into that position step into that leadership position with no hesitation
[01:37:54] It takes you know so it's a way it's got to be so wait it's got to be
[01:37:59] Going back to the book we're in up once again. I'm fast forwarding giant swaths of incredible information here
[01:38:09] So get the books you can hear it all you're on a mountain top
[01:38:12] It's June 10th
[01:38:16] Back to the book all elements
[01:38:18] This is black hawk three six we'll be starting we'll be standing two in 15 mics
[01:38:24] My four of the truck commanders acknowledge we spent the night waiting for a
[01:38:29] Gailong how you say his name good lang good lang and this guy is the the bad guy in this book
[01:38:33] And you again because I'm only reading little tiny parts of this incredible book
[01:38:37] You have to get the books you can get the full details of gellang
[01:38:40] Yeah, I feel like for you guys he probably be a high value target man
[01:38:44] MBT I mean, but he was the local commander in our area and he was a badass man
[01:38:48] He fought against the right me knew what he was doing
[01:38:50] Yeah, he was he's like he's the one that's setting up all these really good like when when that first ambush you were in
[01:38:58] First of all I'm surprised you guys got out of there
[01:39:00] Me too and I think to myself if I could have been the ambusher in that like you know
[01:39:05] You think man you're you're gonna kill everyone like it's a miracle that you guys made a great leadership
[01:39:09] It's great reaction by your troops, but that this guy is a pro. I mean, it's what I'm trying to say for sure
[01:39:16] Guys, I mean look man. They were hitting like there were bullet holes
[01:39:20] We had mark 19s the feed trays like there were bullet holes stitched across the top of them
[01:39:24] That's how close some of the rounds were coming to hit my gunners and I mean all of that
[01:39:29] I feel like it's true like a little bit of luck
[01:39:31] I mean there's something else out there. I feel like we were just blessed or lucky or whatever
[01:39:35] You want to call it man, but we always we always take blessings and luck
[01:39:38] For sure. Yeah, take cool take that. It's especially especially good. We're good. We're from the high ground
[01:39:46] Yeah
[01:39:48] So now the morning chill upon us. I shivered in my filthy clothes
[01:39:52] We made it a standard practice wake up an hour before dawn while out
[01:39:57] Beyond the F.O.B. like this
[01:39:59] Experience had shown that the enemy loved to launch attacks this time in the morning
[01:40:03] Soon all 24 my men were up in position waiting to see what the enemy would make a move
[01:40:07] I think I put I think I circled that just because I always like the idea of standing too
[01:40:13] And it did it all the time and also because my guys hated it my guys hated it
[01:40:17] You did it all the time. You I learned that from an old Australian essay
[01:40:21] Ask guy he's like you gotta wake up an hour before the sun comes up be ready
[01:40:25] Everybody be the first mover of the day man. I mean that's just that was my thing
[01:40:28] It's like you set the tone you set the tone early right and
[01:40:31] No one wants to do it and and
[01:40:34] Typically to me if it's uncomfortable like that and no one wants to do it. There's a reason why we do it
[01:40:38] You know, okay and and you hear all the time if complacency kills right? Well, there's no way and hell that I was gonna allow that to happen to my troops
[01:40:46] Yep, you know if I if I'm the cool guy if I'm the guy letting let and
[01:40:49] Trupper's get away with shit like taking off their helmets or whatever
[01:40:52] Unbutton and their helmets straps and their turrets then and someone gets killed like I'm the guy that has to look for that forever
[01:40:58] So those tough decisions about like waking up early standing in the proper uniform wearing the right eye protection
[01:41:04] I mean come on if you let a soldier downgrade their uniform and downgrade their protective gear
[01:41:09] Someone gets hurt. I mean
[01:41:11] It's just something that you don't want to ever have to live with no
[01:41:16] While you're up there on this
[01:41:18] Observation point you guys call for our till we on a ridge line and
[01:41:22] And because you you suspected it would be an area where they were storing or launching rockets from there's a big cave site there
[01:41:29] That we knew that they were using from one side of pet there entering the cave from Pakistan
[01:41:35] Exiting the cave from Afghanistan to stay out at you know, we had ISR and Predator in the area
[01:41:39] And we're like how are these guys smuggling these rockets in we ended up identifying a cave site where they were doing it from
[01:41:44] So back to the book a few minutes later the first 105 millimeter artillery shell
[01:41:49] Torra across the sky and exploded on the west slope of the mountain more change more shells rained down our gunners at Burmel
[01:41:56] We're dead on even better. They threw in a mix of ground and airburst creating a lethal all chill artillery cocktail
[01:42:03] I watched from the edge of our perimeter
[01:42:06] Wondering how anyone could survive such firepower
[01:42:10] Mission complete so our sir roiter reported that was your RTO rooter yeah, yeah, yeah, I chose my who's my FL my four days
[01:42:18] Okay, so I would I would plot out the maps like call it to him. He called it in yeah
[01:42:23] He squared away throughout this book. He's just on it. He is he's amazing
[01:42:26] And he I mean he had to be he's not like a pilot now. He's a black-hawk pilot now, but yeah, he's amazing
[01:42:31] I turned and started to walk back to my home fee
[01:42:34] Ha ha rudder how about that I asked for the smile happiness is good indirect sir
[01:42:39] Fired you standard refrain for our for our four-dives river like to use
[01:42:43] He was right to indirect firegable platoon like ours an awesome amount of destructive power
[01:42:49] I flipped a glance over my shoulder at the smoke smothered mountain top your play assholes
[01:42:53] I'd walked about halfway back to my rig and was just passing a thick pine tree when I called out to rooter again
[01:43:00] Let's see what those bastards are saying on the radio is now
[01:43:03] But before I he could respond ruder and everything in my view disappeared as a curtain to had just dropped before my eyes
[01:43:11] blackness
[01:43:12] Nothing where am I the morning scene in the Hindu Kush had vanished replaced by an endless void Sean that voice
[01:43:21] Sean you need to get up
[01:43:23] Grand pap Sean you have to wake up now. I struggled to see him
[01:43:26] But he stayed cloaked in the velvet darkness. I was left only with the smooth comfort of his voice get up
[01:43:33] Sean you got to get up get up for me
[01:43:35] Something stung my face. I tried to look and see what it just hit me
[01:43:38] But I could not penetrate the void am I dreaming? I tried to shake my head, but I couldn't find fire the right neurons instead
[01:43:45] I floated captive to whatever moment this was another sting on my face at least I could feel something
[01:43:51] I wanted to move my hand up and touch my cheek and defend against whatever kept hitting me my hand refused to obey
[01:43:56] I felt disembodied as if somehow my conscious had been separated from my material form
[01:44:02] Sean get up
[01:44:04] A
[01:44:07] Telephone buzzed in my ears now the ringing was all I could hear disoriented
[01:44:11] I tried to look around and realize I was flat on my back perhaps 15 feet from where I last remembered standing the tree
[01:44:17] I'd been passing looked as though a giant head snap that in half
[01:44:22] Then I saw Sabaki his face was smeared with blood his IBA stained crimson with it in a sudden rush my hearing came back
[01:44:29] I went from nothing but the telephone to a hurricane of sounds in my in a heartbeat the switch blitzed my nervous system
[01:44:37] Furnace and I was helpless against the century overload swamped by staccato burst of 50 cowl explosions and screams
[01:44:43] Sir, sir, are you okay?
[01:44:45] Statler staltor staltor shouted at me why wouldn't I be he smacked me again?
[01:44:51] Sir, you got blown the fuck up
[01:44:54] Yeah, that's what you like
[01:44:56] Like what was it a border?
[01:44:58] Yeah, so so yes, it was an airburst mortar and so we had heard
[01:45:06] We had heard the enemy during our stand to right talking on their icons about moving the rockets to the cave
[01:45:12] And I'm like whoa hot damn. I know exactly where you are and so I called in the artillery
[01:45:19] But what we didn't realize was is that the enemy had been planning attack there all night
[01:45:24] Right and they were planning to attack us they had identified our observation post they had conducted
[01:45:29] Reconnaissance on us the all night
[01:45:31] They identified who the key leaders were over several hours worth of a cup of silence
[01:45:35] We had no idea that we were there until the next morning, but we didn't realize that the icon chatter that we were hearing was them planning and attack
[01:45:42] Now that's stand to is what
[01:45:44] Saved us and because we got hit them first and
[01:45:49] But it was based it was like hitting a hornets nest with a baseball bat
[01:45:53] You know they had they had maneuver still gonna get stoned. Yes. Yes, yes
[01:45:59] And so I remember watching those rounds which were fired charge eight right?
[01:46:02] So we talked about charge eight on our tellaries like rocket at rap rocket assisted projectiles for artillery
[01:46:07] Is that there's a tactical and herant tactical risk involved there's at the rocket charge can flip the gun
[01:46:13] So you have the balances a leader
[01:46:15] Will a tactical effects of this fire out
[01:46:18] Outway the potential tactical risk of the guns flipping and then being ineffective. I had to make that call
[01:46:26] Fire the guns the rounds impacted right where I wanted them to walk back to my truck and
[01:46:32] Just the entire the whole world goes black for me in that moment and I remember coming to stalker slapped my face and laughing and I'm like shaking right I couldn't
[01:46:40] I know it was like that black sense of humor
[01:46:42] You know it's funny because you didn't say in the book he was laughing
[01:46:45] He was like, but I know that attitude right there. He's got a chance to smack the L.T
[01:46:52] And he's straddling my chest like he's like sit like it's he's like straddle and over me like slap me in the face and
[01:46:58] I'm like laying on my back and I'm looking to my left and the first thing that I see is my
[01:47:02] Patoon sergeant. This is a guy who's been in the military for 20 plus years. This is grease and yeah
[01:47:07] Grison who's in Panama jumped in with Panama. It was with the 75th year. Yeah, yeah
[01:47:11] He's old old school like you like you you know
[01:47:13] But he's
[01:47:16] He's he's pointing to his back taking cover behind this big
[01:47:19] Tree point to his back. It taken sharp no theirs back his covered in blood
[01:47:23] Sabos wounded who's my weapon squad leader my second most senior NCO in the Patoon in fact
[01:47:30] Every key leader of my Patoon was mooted in the first 60 seconds of that engagement
[01:47:34] Every and I was down and out myself and so I mean I'm looking around me. What were your wounds at the time?
[01:47:41] We didn't know um later it was either and that a fracture in my skull and two three different places and I had a cerebral spinal fluid leak
[01:47:48] And so I was when I sat up and the clear fluid that leaked was leaking out of my nose
[01:47:53] And was leaching out of my ears for a couple weeks
[01:47:55] It was as a result from those hairline fractures in my skull and this cerebral spinal fluid is the stuff that cushions your
[01:48:02] Brain from your skull and it was just leaking out like you know and that ended up healing on its own
[01:48:07] But again, this was back in
[01:48:09] 2005 like soldiers today are getting feedback for injuries like that
[01:48:13] But this was before TBI was even an acronym it wasn't even a thing so so anyway
[01:48:18] we're we're like I
[01:48:19] Sit up and the rate of fire was so heavy I
[01:48:24] Mean so I'm watching these airburst mortars hit us and I know that they're not impacting on the ground
[01:48:30] Right, but they're hitting above us and I could be and I'm watching the tops of trees
[01:48:33] I'm just explode these are trees that have been untouched by humanity for what probably
[01:48:39] 150 years, you know, they're big huge trees and
[01:48:43] We're watching these things explode. I'm looking at my hand, which is laying on the ground and there
[01:48:49] There are rounds impacting like right between my forefinger my I mean, it was just insane
[01:48:55] Everywhere I looked it was like the dirt was on fire because machine gun rounds were just
[01:49:00] In our perimeter all around us and I remember being stalked or graphing about my my body
[01:49:05] Our pulls me up clear fluid leaks out of my nose and I'm looking to the to the ridge lines and then in the darkness
[01:49:12] I couldn't really tell it was a tactical mistake on my part that there were two hills directly east of our position that were taller than ours
[01:49:19] Yeah, and
[01:49:21] From those hill tops the enemy had three machine guns
[01:49:24] A piece like and they were they were again. They were barking the guns. They were talking the guns and
[01:49:31] They were they weren't just doing that they were they were using plunging fire to drop the rounds into our position
[01:49:36] So in other words, they were fire and I'm on a trajectory where they would arc up and land in the middle of us
[01:49:41] So that even if you were taking cover
[01:49:43] Behind a deflator something the round could theoretically land on top of you they were hitting us with airburst mortars
[01:49:48] And as I'm sitting there trying to take in this fight like holy shit like
[01:49:52] They have us dead to rights here. There's no way we're getting out of this and and you guys are in a 360 degree perimeter
[01:49:59] Yeah, I've got five of them these five five gun trucks 24 troops on the ground
[01:50:04] One interpreter. I got 250 caliber machine guns one mark 19 one 240 brow that's mounted and two other dismounted 240 brow was in my trucks
[01:50:11] so
[01:50:13] We're the and they were positioned in 360 degree security on top of this big hill top
[01:50:19] Big hill top
[01:50:21] I had the third biggest hill top in the area
[01:50:26] See it must have my second the third biggest hill top of the area yeah, and I got my troops in her spursed and on the eastern most portion of that perimeter was Sabaki and Baldwin
[01:50:34] And I look towards there
[01:50:36] To where they are and their trucks are totally destroyed
[01:50:40] I see Baldwin he's got a bullet in his shin and he's bleeding all over the afghan dirt
[01:50:45] And I remember like what struck me in that moment is that he's not trying to treat his own injury
[01:50:51] He's trying to treat his team leader who has been at Garbin who had taken a tumbling a K around to the four arm an almost severed his arm and
[01:50:57] The entry went itself was this big the exit wind was even bigger. I mean his arm was hanging by thread
[01:51:04] Baldwin was trying to get a turn it could on there
[01:51:06] I remember looking at Baldwin's face. He was just ghost white. He was bleeding out
[01:51:10] Emric was my a gunner and one of my turrets. He's up in the turret on the 50 cow he gets shot in the head drops in the turret
[01:51:16] He pops back up gets on the gun
[01:51:19] I did a kid that was in my petune. This is very first patrol Kyle Lewis is on another gun
[01:51:23] I watch him get shot in the head in the turret him fall down him get back up
[01:51:27] We're talking their helmets have rat like in and out
[01:51:31] You know from from a bullet like and
[01:51:33] Somehow these dudes survive
[01:51:35] My guy stayed in the fight somehow
[01:51:37] But we ended up getting attacked that day by
[01:51:40] I mean you know you and the predator analysis after the fight once we finally got predator on station over 200 guys
[01:51:46] That's sergeant majors just count them one two three four five over 200 to my 24 and so
[01:51:54] So what was crazy about that attack was that the enemy had the enemy had
[01:52:00] They had simultaneously in place to support by fire positions and they had us in a crossfire and they were hit no
[01:52:05] Disappointing fire but in order to get those support by fire positions in place without us noticing them
[01:52:11] They hit us with indirect airburst mortars, which is what kept our heads down
[01:52:15] Right so we're getting hit with our artillery. I'm knocked out everyone's taking cover
[01:52:19] They in place these support by fire positions. They put us in a crossfire and I'm thinking as a young lieutenant like okay shit like we're dead to rights
[01:52:27] What's next and I'm realizing at the time that these guys are fighting just like we do
[01:52:31] This is exactly what I would do get in the same situation and I'm thinking to myself
[01:52:35] If I were them I would attack and it wasn't but a minute that that thought had dawned on me
[01:52:42] That I see that we get attacked from those hilltop from two successive positions from 40 man
[01:52:48] Pultune size elements like bounding down the hill
[01:52:52] Into the valley below and up towards our position and it I mean I just it just was so crazy
[01:52:57] We start calling in fire danger close on our position and it was just was watching one of five rounds
[01:53:03] Vaporized men like on in the deflating the low ground below
[01:53:07] But it wasn't and not I mean was not stopping him didn't matter what we threw at them
[01:53:10] They were just so many of them
[01:53:12] We kill one two more would replace it. They were they had just
[01:53:16] Amassed a force there that
[01:53:18] No matter what we threw at them
[01:53:20] It wouldn't it wasn't stopping them. We were I mean all around my perimeter
[01:53:24] You know we're going black on ammunition. I got my squad that you're screaming that they're going black on ammunition
[01:53:28] I'm thinking of like Joshua Chamberland and like holy shit
[01:53:31] I'm gonna have to order a pay net char and time to the teeth of the enemy and then I remember
[01:53:36] This computer by trice like thinking Jesus Christ the army doesn't issue us bay and that's anymore like this is like this is crazy
[01:53:42] So everyone starts grabbing their side arms starts grabbing knives. You're ready to fight and then we fight them to a
[01:53:49] Almost like a stalemate they didn't quite get to the top of our hill or blowing clay more minds
[01:53:53] We're yelling back and forth and I remember sitting on the easternmost perimeter with my guys
[01:53:58] You can see these long knives hanging from their belts. We fight them to a stalemate and I'm starting thinking like okay
[01:54:03] I gotta start getting these casualties out of here because they're all bleeding to death
[01:54:06] So we start trying to evacuate Baldwin
[01:54:10] Or evacuate Garvin we get over there
[01:54:13] Baldwin's like take Garvin first so our medic dock pantoha grabs him picks him up
[01:54:18] Starts carrying a back and boom once pantoha our medic get shot in the face and drop and thinking my medic is dead Jesus Christ like in this whole time
[01:54:25] I'm just what's the time frame that we're talking about right now like how long is this good thing going on?
[01:54:32] Probably up into this point probably at least an hour and a half
[01:54:36] We couldn't get close air support either because our
[01:54:39] Like rotaryering and fixed wing support were divided down south through a troops in contact were a batina brigade commander
[01:54:45] We're involved in so we were like just left out there flappin and
[01:54:50] Who cares about
[01:54:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, right right I mean and so Baldwin you know
[01:54:57] Pantoha goes down and I watch him stand up
[01:55:01] And I'm just like I couldn't believe this kid was still alive
[01:55:04] The entire like you know right side of his face is ruined from this bullet hole it picks up Garvin gets him to the aid station
[01:55:10] We run back for Baldwin get hit with another arpego get hit with an RPG this time. I I go flying
[01:55:15] Pantoha goes flying we get back up grab balled when get him to the casually collection point
[01:55:19] Um, we know we start
[01:55:22] Trying to prep them for evac at turnic it's on render first aid and what was the cast of act plan?
[01:55:29] How are you gonna get him out of there?
[01:55:31] Well the cast of act plan we were trying to coordinate with the Marines and an a back at the base to come out here and link up
[01:55:36] So that was a vehicular yeah, yeah, yeah, there wasn't gonna be a helicopter's coming correct and that that is that
[01:55:44] The truly difficult thing about Afghanistan and the challenges that you face with the terrain there
[01:55:48] Sometimes in the weather right so if the weather is cloudy and there's a low ceiling the birds aren't flying
[01:55:54] You're out there operating somebody gets shot
[01:55:56] Severus and artery the birds aren't coming
[01:55:59] And there's no way you're gonna evacom back to a level of care where they're gonna survive
[01:56:03] The tactical risk and Afghanistan in this regard is just it's just astronomical with regards to casualties on that day
[01:56:10] I mean the fighting was so heavy there was no way we were getting a blackhawk in there to evacuate
[01:56:14] And there's no way we can have a blackhawk lord here and get a jungle penetrator ran to get a get a there's no way and hell no one was coming so it had to be
[01:56:21] vehicular Kazevac
[01:56:23] Conduct link up on the westernmost portion of our perimeter
[01:56:27] When Marines and a an a casivac slash QRF because you guys needed like legitimate quick reaction force
[01:56:34] He did oh, we were this is it this is a great and I'm telling you got to read this book, but here's a part that's
[01:56:40] To the enemies closing in like you said pinhole appeared beside me
[01:56:46] Sir were about to be overrun. We need to see our radios which for those of you those civilians
[01:56:50] I don't know your radios have a little switch on them that you can turn that erases all the
[01:56:56] All the
[01:56:57] Cryptographic material in all the secret material all the code the the special code
[01:57:02] Compsack yeah the the special code that you've got in your radio that it allows you to understand other American radios
[01:57:07] When you turn this thing to zero then it's gone
[01:57:11] That means the enemy can't take your radio and listen so
[01:57:15] But you have that switch in the event that you think you're gonna get overrun the last thing you're gonna do like literally the last thing you will do
[01:57:22] Is zero-wise your radio so at the enemy can't get on the
[01:57:26] Friendly frequencies and listen or talk or disrupt them in any way so pinhole tells you
[01:57:31] We need to see our radios which is which means that he and his mind thinks
[01:57:36] You guys are done we were you guys are done because there's no
[01:57:40] Once you realize your radio the you can't talk anymore
[01:57:42] Can't talk your own element so he's just saying look we're done
[01:57:46] We are gonna be overrun we need to zeroize our radios so the enemy doesn't get them and we're all gonna die here in the next
[01:57:52] Whatever that's where he was at mentally you come back no way I said instinctively in worst case
[01:57:57] Neras we were trained to erase the frequencies on our communication system so the enemy cannot listen to our chatter by doing so
[01:58:03] We would lose all ability to call for more fire support so we need to do it
[01:58:07] He actually pushed back so we need to do it pinhole to access
[01:58:10] Insisted no we cannot lose our links to the fob both enemy assault elements had cleared their own slopes now when we're pouring across the valley floor
[01:58:19] 100 men at least how many did we have left a dozen maybe pinhole was right
[01:58:25] We lose our radio link we all die
[01:58:27] Router I shouted turning to my four-dabs river who is sitting in my home view with the radio handset to his mouth sir
[01:58:33] Call in anything you can work the fire missions danger close got it
[01:58:38] Yes, sir he keyed the handset and began barking coordinates. I looked at my RTO
[01:58:43] Do not see these radios they go down we all go down got it yes sir good grab a radio and come with me
[01:58:51] I
[01:58:55] Can't I can't I mean I can't believe that that I mean Jesus man I
[01:59:01] Yeah, that's where you know my men
[01:59:04] I remember the feeling on top of that hill that day my men all had
[01:59:09] You know nine miles in the truck but just just enough rounds to take the
[01:59:12] Rown life should be be overrun because we were not gonna allow ourselves to be taken captive by these guys
[01:59:17] I don't know that sounds morbid, but that was just the truth with you know
[01:59:22] And that's where a lot of the guys were I mean they were still in the fight right they were still gonna fight to the very bitter end
[01:59:27] But it comes to point time where you're out of ammo and they got more ammo than you there. They're among you
[01:59:34] That's where we were
[01:59:36] That's where we were I checked with Router any birds and route
[01:59:40] Negative sir all the arrows so assets are tied up elsewhere keep trying
[01:59:44] I how to up with grease and a good dynamic existed between the two of us. I was always the hot one
[01:59:49] He ran cold and kept me grounded we become so close
[01:59:52] We could finish each other's thoughts throughout the fight we didn't even have to communicate much
[01:59:57] But all along we functioned smoothly as a team grease and yes, I regret through dirt crusted lips
[02:00:02] What's our next play
[02:00:04] Somebody screamed they're coming again the sound of gunfire grew fast and desperate the temple the fight was changed
[02:00:10] Was changing building I looked at grease and it saw a relentless determination etched on his face
[02:00:15] But also I saw a touch of fear fuck I don't know sir shoot back
[02:00:22] That was his plan which is where you guys were at and and I I tried what yeah when he said that I was I at that point I was like
[02:00:32] Holy shit, you know like for a lieutenant like my biggest weapon is my radio and if it's time for like me to start shooting back
[02:00:39] It's a it's a real real bad day for everybody, but that's where we were you could hear these guys
[02:00:46] Not only and you you detail this in the book it's
[02:00:48] Scary you hear him calling out all the lock bar which okay, but then what what
[02:00:55] Because we've all heard that but then you you hear the
[02:00:58] The squad and their squad and fire team leaders giving out orders you could hear that too
[02:01:04] Yeah, yeah, it was it was um and we were yelling back and forth screaming
[02:01:08] Now calling them names and stuff and they're yelling back at us when we fought him to a stalemate and this was the first
[02:01:14] This was the fight you know after grieces like shoot back and I run out to where Baldwin was because again
[02:01:20] My big thing is that if you're a leader it is your or job to be where the contact is heaviest
[02:01:25] You know, yeah, you have to coordinate other aspects of the fight, but you better be on the knife
[02:01:29] Said to where the hip fighting is heaviest and so
[02:01:32] You know ran back out to the easternmost portion of the perimeter and that's where I first that's that's when I first pulled my trigger and took a life
[02:01:38] Was in that engagement at that moment and it was at the moment where watching and witnessing these
[02:01:45] These their team leaders. I mean they're changing command yelling fire commands and bound commands and maneuver commands to their subordinate team leaders and it was just
[02:01:54] I mean we knew that they were well trained because of the first engagement that we were in with them
[02:01:58] Right we knew that they knew how to fight, but it was a whole another thing to see their command to control and how fast they were on the battlefield
[02:02:05] They were way faster than we were
[02:02:08] Yeah, well they're a lot lighter, too. That's right. I mean, that's one thing
[02:02:12] They have this huge advantage because we wear cells down because we value human life
[02:02:16] So we wear body armor and we carry radios and
[02:02:20] They carry what they can't 404
[02:02:23] Mags some frags and
[02:02:26] And there are climate ties like they're all used to running around at 12,000 feet, you know, so they
[02:02:31] Scale up the side of a mountain better than a mountain go can, you know, and that they should the people that we're fighting, you know, and what we had started to see on the battlefield
[02:02:39] You know any time you're in Afghanistan, it's like you deal with you know anything from Al Qaeda to the Connie network to hack
[02:02:46] Modear to the Taliban sometimes in this engagement what we were seeing
[02:02:53] Was cross training and so you'd see Al Qaeda foreign commanders
[02:02:57] You know commanding and leading ground troops who were just local
[02:03:01] Taliban and
[02:03:03] Man it was it was just a wicked wicked wicked fight
[02:03:06] Sometimes people will say you know jokko you talk a lot about tactics like don't you think the enemy's gonna gonna like learn these tactics
[02:03:13] I'm like the enemy absolutely knows these tactics that the tactics that talk about our cover and move
[02:03:18] You know set up support by fire positions maneuver you know like that's what I talk about time
[02:03:22] There's no secret to this stuff you either know how to do it and if you do it how well can you do it
[02:03:27] Or you don't know it and then you get slaughtered, but yeah, there's but what to hear
[02:03:31] That's exactly everything that you just said everything that you've experienced so far is exactly what
[02:03:37] We do that's what we do like that's what we do we set up ambushes we set up LM busses
[02:03:42] We set up we want to get the high ground we set up support by fire positions
[02:03:46] We bound in maneuvering leap for our elements so we cover and move for each other. That's what we do and and and knowing the tactics
[02:03:53] And being entrenched in them is not enough
[02:03:57] You know and so you have course the enemy knows everything that we do our FM's are on the internet of course
[02:04:02] Like you know, but but knowing the you have to be able to take the tactics or just a baseline
[02:04:06] You've got a train and evolve and watch the enemy and and adapt and and so anytime anybody
[02:04:13] Asked me a question about tactics to it's like you have course the enemy knows our tactics and but that's not enough
[02:04:17] And if you're even asking that question it means you're slave to the tactics which can't be the tactics are a baseline
[02:04:23] And that's just like any leadership you have to be able to make command decisions on the fly of all the
[02:04:27] Dapton operate in the field and that's what you have to do to be effective in combat
[02:04:30] Yeah, and as you put as you as you related that first ambush that you got caught in
[02:04:35] There's no manual that gives the answer that you gave
[02:04:39] There's no manual you can say okay if this is where you're at first of all how you're gonna describe that how you gonna how you gonna
[02:04:44] Describe or give a scenario for every single possible combat situation that's gonna mean you it's it literally impossible to do
[02:04:51] Because you god knows what's gonna happen out in the battlefield god knows that you're gonna be in a situation like that right there
[02:04:57] In that particular environment in that particular scenario with that particular terrain with the enemy in their situation with your
[02:05:03] troops, you know
[02:05:04] Arrange the way they are like that's only gonna happen one time and if all you know is the basic
[02:05:11] Fundamental tactics without knowing how to deviate from those tactics you're gonna get killed
[02:05:15] But if you truly understand the principles of the tactics then you can go okay here's what's going on
[02:05:22] I'm trapped we I better get the high ground and I better get it now. That's exactly right
[02:05:27] I mean if you if the tactics are the only thing that you understand then you're in a near-ambut
[02:05:31] You're you know react in the your ambush charging into the I mean your dead your dead
[02:05:35] If that's your bottom line as tactics are a baseline
[02:05:38] You've got to understand the principles and be able to adapt and maneuver
[02:05:43] Using an understanding what those principles are otherwise you're done. Yeah, you know because
[02:05:47] The one thing that combat does
[02:05:48] Better than anything else is throw you a curveball every single day. I mean you'd be at the top of your game
[02:05:55] And all of a sudden like one of your trucks your rear differential on your home V breaks and you're stuck on the side of a mountain top for three days to
[02:06:01] Everything's like what do you what do you what do you do with that? It's absolute chaos and you know
[02:06:06] What tactics bring and what training brings is a certain amount of order to that chaos and the fine line in between order and chaos is worth survival is and
[02:06:15] And like you said and the same thing we I think we both just said the exact same thing
[02:06:20] Knowing the tactics knowing where the X is and zeros move on the on a chalkboard
[02:06:26] Is part of
[02:06:27] Understanding but you have to understand the actual principles that you're trying to to
[02:06:33] In force on the battle for that's what you have to you have to understand what are the principles you have to
[02:06:37] Understand those principles once you understand those principles then you can adapt those tactics and you can maneuver and you can make things happen
[02:06:42] Which which like you said just knowing the tactics isn't good enough
[02:06:46] You have to understand the principles of why you're employing those tactics and then you can make calls and decisions that will allow you to win
[02:06:54] Going back to the book the enemy wouldn't quit the fight grew even more intense delta-platoon
[02:07:03] Anchored us what we would have gone down for sure still we couldn't hold the enemy off indefinitely
[02:07:08] We needed more firepower and more men
[02:07:12] On a hill a few hundred meters to our northwest to our northwest ahead appeared over the crest then another
[02:07:18] Soon a dozen figures flowed over the hilltop and down the slope facing us they were carrying AKs
[02:07:26] More followed a dozen two dozen the lead element open fire on the run shooting from the hip like something straight out of a movie
[02:07:32] I had one mag left I'd given all my others away even with Delta's trucks
[02:07:38] We couldn't stop this fresh threat unconsciously I
[02:07:43] Clutched my Gerber knife I
[02:07:45] Can't believe it has come to this more men poured over the crest and
[02:07:52] Then I saw a Marine in their ranks their A and A I said to myself
[02:07:58] Combat whip saws your emotions in an extreme way that nothing else can
[02:08:02] I'd gone from despair to you for a no matter of seconds the afghan troops sprinted into our perimeter and
[02:08:09] Counter assaulted the enemy through our firing line
[02:08:11] Galanx men reeled from the blow and fell back pel mel to the base of the hill
[02:08:17] Several more marine homies and A and a Toyota trucks joined us from the northwest
[02:08:21] We'd gone from having five trucks three of which had been rendered immobile by damage to having 14
[02:08:32] How does I mean they combat really is an emotional roller coaster man you go from thinking that your dead one second to you know
[02:08:38] Having a shot of getting out of their alive and I remember I will never forget this an a dude like
[02:08:44] Crest in a top of that hill. He's just screaming at the top of his lungs got his AK 47 down in a side
[02:08:48] He's screaming and as he's running he's shooting the ground in front of him like that's
[02:08:54] I'm not thinking oh my god
[02:08:56] He's just shooting like right in the ground. I'm like oh my god
[02:08:59] Like we're getting overrun and come to find out it was the you know
[02:09:02] It was the Marines and the ANA and it was just you know the augment our position and you know they say augment our position
[02:09:09] We start crossloading ammunition and and then we fought them to a stalemate for like another four or five hours
[02:09:15] You know and we ended up getting and Apache on station and a ten and then we had a
[02:09:22] A B1 strategic Lancer on stage where we dropped I
[02:09:27] Want to say I think we dropped at least 11 2000 pound Jdams on that cave site on that ridge line and it was only after that
[02:09:36] That we could get them to even break contact in the first place
[02:09:39] It would determine it was unbelievable
[02:09:42] They were determined to overrun an American built-in and behead us that was what we learned that was what they wanted to do and from then on out
[02:09:48] That's that's the enemy that we were fighting and they were
[02:09:51] Utterly relentless and every way and if we weren't ready to face them every time we left the wire we were again
[02:09:58] We were dead to rights
[02:10:00] Just before you guys got the air support
[02:10:03] You had this unfold I'm going back to the book we got to get them to the truck's grease and order
[02:10:07] Dixon now she she white from blood loss lifted Baldwin's wounded leg with his unwounded arm the rest of us picked him up as well
[02:10:14] Staying low we moved as fast as we could off the lip of the hill down the northwest slope to the waiting humvies
[02:10:20] Before we could slide him inside the truck Baldwin cried sir, sir the turn as voice made us freeze
[02:10:25] I'm fucked up
[02:10:27] Malfopin shallow rapid bleeding
[02:10:29] He was going into shock. I could see Afghan dirt around and to his teeth
[02:10:34] You're gonna be okay, bro. I said I'm shot in the back. What when we all went down
[02:10:39] Baldwin took around at the base of his spine. We had no idea until that moment. I
[02:10:44] Can't feel my legs
[02:10:46] He seized my hand with his and as he stared at me with saucer eyes. He squeezed it hard
[02:10:54] As weak as he had been the fear of sailing him now evoked one last birth of strength
[02:11:00] No words came. I held my brother's hand until they pulled me from him door closed
[02:11:05] Driver gunning the engine the humvie lumbered off for fog brimel
[02:11:10] The second one carrying Garvin and Dixon soon followed I watched them go
[02:11:15] Greece and Insabo standing beside me the blood of our brothers drawing on our hands and arms
[02:11:22] So as you guys work we're carrying out
[02:11:25] As you guys were carrying out Baldwin you guys got riddled with machine guns
[02:11:29] You then you take one through the pant leg or something. Yeah, I so okay, so
[02:11:34] We were dropping J.Dams on him. We thought we had we thought we had driven the enemy back and given enough
[02:11:41] Tactical space to start e-back on our casualties in a way that we thought was as safe as we could possibly do it
[02:11:45] So how mean you say safe, but you know what I mean?
[02:11:48] It was the best time and so we start picking up
[02:11:51] We rushed Garvin down to the trucks and we come back for Baldwin in the second trip because again Baldwin assisted that we
[02:11:57] That we get Garvin first and so all of us grab Baldwin and Baldwin again six four two fifty huge guys
[02:12:05] So I grab I grab them Sabo grabs them certain Dixon grabs them and Greason grabs them and
[02:12:10] As we're carrying Baldwin to the truck and down the hill we get hit by machine gunfire from a rogue
[02:12:15] You know one of those machine gunnests that wasn't destroyed around went through the back plate of my
[02:12:21] IBA and down through
[02:12:24] Sergeant Dixon's arm as we were carrying them and I just remember watching certain Dixon gets shot right in the forearm and I mean he just
[02:12:31] Then we just watched the blood spurred out of his arm and his face goes
[02:12:35] White and we dropped Baldwin
[02:12:38] It was sort of chaos and then all I remember those is
[02:12:41] Pantoha coming out of nowhere space is still ruined
[02:12:45] throws a turn it could on Dixon and Dixon runs over to the other side of Baldwin and grabs them with his good hand
[02:12:49] And we all pick them up and we get them to the trucks and we get them down to the truck and
[02:12:52] And and Baldwin just kept saying to me over and over again, sir, sir
[02:12:56] And I'm just like it's okay. You're gonna be good. You're gonna be good because he was he was so
[02:13:00] White he had lost so much blood already from the bullet wound to his leg and the thing is is that the bullet
[02:13:06] When to his leg he lost a lot of blood, but he never she was never out of the fight
[02:13:09] He never once stopped shooting and try to get him off the line. It was he was a guy who's a pain in the ass that day
[02:13:14] And I tell him out to this day, you know, I
[02:13:16] Could not get him off the line and he's just ghost white and to this day
[02:13:21] All I remember really a lot about that moment is this this you know around the whites of his teeth
[02:13:26] He's just had this afghan dirt just cake. It was teeth and he just said sir
[02:13:29] You know, I'm really fucked up and I said you're gonna be fine. I promise you're gonna be good
[02:13:33] And I'm like holdin his hand like this and he goes no sir no sir
[02:13:37] I've been shot in the back. I can't feel my legs and then the humvies whisked him away and
[02:13:43] We never really I never saw him again and not until we got bad been back
[02:13:48] Months, you know, we knew he was okay when he was gonna survive
[02:13:52] You got an update on his condition throughout the course of our deployment
[02:13:56] But man that was
[02:13:58] Baldwin was one of those guys in my cartoon that was just a
[02:14:02] Man all my insios were just so great and to lose any one of them like that
[02:14:07] Was really challenging. It was really tough
[02:14:10] You guys got a
[02:14:12] patchies you guys got eight tens and you guys got the B1 when you heard you got the B1 you said the wrath
[02:14:18] of God
[02:14:20] Yeah, you know the fact that you know an infantry petune on the border of Afghanistan got a B1 strategic answer capable dropping like
[02:14:28] You know, I don't even know I couldn't even tell you like 20 30 Jdms
[02:14:31] You know Jdms a joint direct attack munition on target
[02:14:36] I mean we I'm telling you we must have at least 11
[02:14:39] Probably more like 22 we dropped over the course of that engagement it was just
[02:14:43] You know because it didn't just end after the enemy broke contact right they were still taking pot shots well after
[02:14:49] With the initial forces broken contact because we had to get a record up there to get our trucks out
[02:14:54] You know get a record up to the top of this mountain together come you guys need to just look forever completely secure this whole
[02:15:00] Just took forever it just took forever and we were out there for hours and hours and hours and
[02:15:05] Eventually after we had hooked up our last on V we all limped out of there
[02:15:14] When it was over the silence is almost unbearable
[02:15:17] Galanx force had been pulverized the fighting it lasted almost six hours exhausted
[02:15:22] We hooked up our three disabled rigs and towed them off the hilltop for home our long column traveled west with barely a word shared among us
[02:15:29] empty shell casings littered our humbieve floorboards
[02:15:31] And as we bounced along the rugged afghan roads they jinkled like slabels when we reached Burmel
[02:15:38] The home bodies turned out in force the divide between combat troops and the men who work behind the wire grows wider in moments such as those
[02:15:45] Band of brothers know battle shifts those relationships like nothing else
[02:15:50] We called them pugs which stands for personnel other than grunts or fobits
[02:15:56] They smiled and laughed and took photos of our battered trucks as we parked on our out on the maintenance pad
[02:16:03] They spent the night safe inside the base uniforms clean body armor stowed under their bunks
[02:16:12] And you actually decided to become a smoke right then yes started smoking cigarettes. Yes, I did I did I absolutely did and
[02:16:21] You know I that part of the book. I sort I mean it happened exactly like that you come back
[02:16:28] Your shot to shit you come back and have these guys these guys Americans that greet you and they look at you like you're in like a zoo
[02:16:35] You know they want to see the devastation of the trucks the
[02:16:39] Every single window of our up our our shot out completely. I mean we had we had the up armor ballistic glass
[02:16:45] Thank God for that, but I mean they were all just shot out completely
[02:16:48] I mean almost every single member of my platoon was wounded in that engagement and like
[02:16:53] Guys were bloodied and battered and so you got these guys taking pictures of you that you know
[02:16:56] They're gonna send to their family and be like look at how bad we have it over here
[02:17:00] But these are guys that are like three hawks in a caught every day
[02:17:03] You know they're taking more of showers and then you think about it like this
[02:17:07] You know you get back from from being outside the wire for 10 days and you haven't had a shower in 10 days and there's
[02:17:12] We don't have running water on the base or there's a fine amount of it to begin with you get back and there's nothing but cold showers
[02:17:17] Because these guys stay out the base all the time use all the hot water and you go in any try to call your family and these guys
[02:17:22] We're on the base or clogging up the phones you've been gone for 10 days on a mission
[02:17:26] You can even call your family and then you get out there and all the foods. I mean it was just so I
[02:17:31] I looking back on it now
[02:17:33] I sort of regret that because I don't I I do value
[02:17:37] I mean it does take for every one of us in the field it takes three of them and it's one team one fight
[02:17:41] I believe that to every five with every five of my being but that is how it was at the time we were really pissed
[02:17:46] Well, yeah, you know it's like like when I was talking about that definition of enemy expanding
[02:17:51] Sometimes that definition of enemy can expand inside the inside the wire a little bit and no doubt about and actually
[02:17:57] You know
[02:17:58] You you did an amazing thing and it's at the back of this book you have a letter from a from a guy that was one of the
[02:18:05] Our private a young private is a supply guy who everyone gave him a hard time
[02:18:09] But he was just a good kid great kid. Yeah, and he wrote you a letter and said like because he read the book apparently and
[02:18:15] Said like hey man, I just read this book and you're talking about how
[02:18:18] Harrible we were how horrible the pox were and he explained his story which was
[02:18:23] I think after September 11th he like
[02:18:26] You know was out of shape and
[02:18:28] Worked out and trained and gotten shapes so that he could join the army and he took a job that he thought he could be able to handle with that being a supply guy
[02:18:35] And meanwhile the girl that he was in love with who was gonna marry him?
[02:18:39] He went on deployment got extended and she said, you know, I'm not gonna marry you and so he
[02:18:43] Lought but gave up his love of his life and had no future and he's like, hey, I just want you know
[02:18:49] We all sacrifice exactly and you actually what the I thought was awesome you publish that isn't the bag that letters in the back of this book, you know because as you just said
[02:18:59] You know you wrote the way it was
[02:19:02] Then yeah, I'm yeah, right and and man those those things are real and you know it takes
[02:19:09] Both sides right absolutely both sides
[02:19:11] If you're a support person
[02:19:14] You got to remember what the hell the guys in the field are doing and
[02:19:18] If you're in the field you got to remember okay, well, these guys aren't experiencing what we're experiencing so they're they're gonna have a hard time relating to it
[02:19:24] And it's hard to build that bridge
[02:19:26] I mean, honestly with me
[02:19:28] I had 40 seals and I had 60 support people that you know were running all of our stuff and it was pretty easy for me because I saw them all the time
[02:19:37] And you know is a much smaller little element and
[02:19:40] But I you know, I told I told my support guys
[02:19:43] The only reason that we're here is to get those guys whatever they need to do their job
[02:19:48] Whatever they need to do their job. We're here. They are our masters
[02:19:53] We are here to support them those two potoons those that's that's who we that's where here
[02:19:58] Absolutely and and the guys got it and that meant you know, I said listen if it means if if you see them eating and they're done with their tray
[02:20:06] You pick up that train you carry it and you put it away form you do that for them so they can spend an extra three seconds
[02:20:12] Prep in their gear for their operation and so the support people
[02:20:16] Understood that because it's real easy for the support people to get isolated and
[02:20:20] They're not going in the field so they're looking at you. Hey, I'm playing a video game tonight
[02:20:25] I don't know what these other guys are doing they don't understand it and so
[02:20:29] They start to have an attitude when someone comes back from being in the field for four days and says hey
[02:20:35] Get let me take a shower and they go who's my turn? No, that's not the right answer the right answer
[02:20:41] It's sorry. Let me go get you some soap. That's the right answer exactly right. I mean that's exactly right
[02:20:45] And I feel like to our first sergeant's credit, you know, he did everything that he could to
[02:20:51] Like treat the operational troops in our base exactly like that
[02:20:55] But as our base grew I mean it was a company size base which made it facilitate
[02:21:00] 120 infantrymen and maybe some and and so in the support guys right
[02:21:02] So we probably had 300 people on our base, but as the base grew with our footprint and Afghanistan
[02:21:07] The longer we were there we had units that were there that were not under his you know
[02:21:11] Pervue right you want a part of our command
[02:21:13] So you know you have these guys that would like the support personnel that would roll under the showers
[02:21:18] Use all the hot water first starting to be like what are you doing man like you're doing this wrong?
[02:21:22] And they'd be like FU talk to my commander and it's just like well
[02:21:25] You know and it just comes down to like some what battles are worth fighting of what battles aren't you know as an infantry guy
[02:21:31] You know one of the things that you know is like you're net you're rarely gonna get credit for the things that you do
[02:21:36] It's a thankless job and it just sucks and in like the you ever you've heard the term and brace the suck
[02:21:41] Well, this is this is why this is why we get the quest why we wear the blue court
[02:21:45] That's why we get C.I.Bs, you know because our job is harder than everybody else's and I don't mean from a financial standpoint because guess what like
[02:21:52] We're they're getting the same combat painted that we're getting okay, you know
[02:21:56] And and that's sort of the dynamic that we took going forward from that engagement is that like yeah
[02:22:01] Like this this shit sucks. It's gonna get harder, right?
[02:22:05] But we took a sort of like black
[02:22:08] Like a perverse sense of pride out of that and that like
[02:22:12] We were the we ended up being the best unit on our base and because of that
[02:22:16] We were always the forward unit. We were the lead element and every single division level
[02:22:20] Operation and I'm guessing it was my little platoon on the tip of the spear and so we were the ones getting our ass shot up all the time
[02:22:26] So as a leader it would be really easy for me to turn around be like damn it, man
[02:22:30] You know look at all these other pltunes that they're they're in for two and for two and two
[02:22:33] They get to slack off all the time they get to sit on base all the time and look they're not looking their wounds
[02:22:38] They're not getting hurt but at the same time
[02:22:40] I like being the best too and so did my guys so it was just like yeah
[02:22:44] Okay, like yeah, sucks being out here getting shot at all the time getting shot up all the time
[02:22:48] I mean I'm not joking we took 85% casualties eyes guys wounded two and three times
[02:22:52] I had six guys get shot in the head six guys. I also survived every gunner and my platoon was wounded
[02:22:57] Everybody that man the machine gun was wounded and we loved it. I mean it was just I mean we hated it
[02:23:02] Right we hated it but like we didn't want anyone else doing that job you hated it
[02:23:06] But you guys were the outlaws that's it that's it man. We we to look
[02:23:10] I'm telling you there were times so I mean I'm telling you my guys would complain
[02:23:14] Sir why don't we got to be the lead element no one likes being the lead element on a division level operation right there
[02:23:19] The first year the first year to get blown up shot at every single time
[02:23:23] You know the buck stopped with us. I mean I have my hands. Yeah, God damn it's sir like because if you have an entire battalion
[02:23:29] I'm like 800 plus troops and an infantry battalion operation
[02:23:33] The lead point man and I've got to stand with the I mean the Russian era maps like you make one wrong turn
[02:23:38] Yes, like there's no roads. There's no roads like the entire battalion gets thrown off so I remember my squad that you're Chris County's now a
[02:23:45] Swat guy with a Syracuse PD you'd be like sir God damn it can't you just make somebody else appointment
[02:23:50] Just one operation just what so we had to deal with that a lot which is a
[02:23:54] Fun leadership challenge to have but it I always talked to companies about this. You've got it
[02:23:59] You got to be careful that you know in a dynamic and a corporate setting where
[02:24:03] You know the hardest working person because they're the most competent you end up relying on a lot for sure and then the person sitting next to him
[02:24:11] Skates most of the time and so as a leader you really like should identify those things and not put too much on the person that's
[02:24:19] That's moving out and drawn fire every day doing the right thing everyday you got to hold people accountable that aren't doing the right thing
[02:24:24] But at the same time
[02:24:26] We like being yeah and
[02:24:28] You really do as a leader's you protect the guys from the chicken shit stuff that's going on absolutely as much as you can
[02:24:35] And as you guys lost control of that base because other people started moving in that to become became harder and harder to do for sure which is which is a problem
[02:24:44] So
[02:24:48] Going back to the book I've been writing to my dad every chance
[02:24:51] I had most soldiers tell their family none of what happens in combat
[02:24:54] They fear how they were react to the details. I hadn't been doing that my dad had asked and I'd been and never
[02:25:00] Been anything but totally honest with him in the past months the bond between us are grown even deeper as we exchanged emails between patrols by nature
[02:25:08] Leaders live a lonely life as close as we can be
[02:25:12] To our men and NCOs there's still an invisible wall that can never be broken down less to lieutenant grow two familiar with his men
[02:25:18] familiarity can breed contempt
[02:25:20] In a fight that could lead to hesitation to follow orders plus a lieutenant who is too emotionally invested in his men
[02:25:26] Might make the wrong decision in combat in trying to spare their lives
[02:25:30] He could actually make the mistake that ends up getting them all killed
[02:25:34] My dad's emails and our few phone conversations had bombed some of the tenth sense of isolation
[02:25:39] I've been feeling I pulled up his email address. I wouldn't write him about lieutenant Taylor and what he had said
[02:25:45] That's sort of company business needed to stay within the company at least for now
[02:25:51] Right then a bolt of home sickness left me almost breathless words began pouring out dad
[02:25:58] The enemy men business and didn't stop coming
[02:26:01] It was like the Russian hoard eventually we were going to run out of ammo and they were going to overrun us
[02:26:06] I'm a damn platoon leader and I had one magazine left when our QRF quick reaction force arrived
[02:26:11] We killed tons of them and they just kept coming wave after wave half of my platoon will get purple hearts
[02:26:17] My sharp nooons are healing fast my headache is going away
[02:26:21] But I still can't hear out of my right ear and the ringing is annoying is hell
[02:26:27] I paused and re-read the words as a soldier and a leader
[02:26:30] I cannot complain or show weakness to anyone
[02:26:33] Such a revelation here would destroy my ability to command and battle and ruin the hard
[02:26:38] Hard one respect I'd earn from the men
[02:26:40] Leadership exists on a knife edge
[02:26:43] Any sign of hesitation doubt or inability to hack it would have pushed me out of the platoon's inner circle
[02:26:50] I could deal with getting shot at I could deal with the threat of capture and be heading wall
[02:26:55] My empty m4 lay at my side
[02:26:57] I could deal with the pain in my head the vertical the sleepest nights where the buzzing in my ears kept me company
[02:27:03] But one thing I could not deal with was being pushed out
[02:27:07] Sean the leader had to be tough Sean the man needed to unburden himself as I started typing again
[02:27:13] I realized that just by reading my words my father was performing a noble and selfless service for me
[02:27:19] Somewhere on the other side of the world somebody I love knew what I was going through and he was standing strong for me
[02:27:29] I mean
[02:27:31] I feel like that was a
[02:27:33] I feel like I needed in the moment, but I I hear it again today and I feel like and I know now
[02:27:39] You know what my dad went through and now you know I know why guys going talk about it
[02:27:43] You know what I mean? I was stupid. I shouldn't have I should have never done it and almost it almost
[02:27:49] I want to say it like it's destroyed my father. That's that's a bit much, but it
[02:27:54] It took a serious serious
[02:27:55] serious toll on him to where I didn't know this the that this dynamic until I got home, but
[02:28:00] My mom was just she was the rock of my family. They kept it all together. I mean this deployment was just
[02:28:08] It was so hard on my family and I was exacerbated by
[02:28:13] These stupid emails. I'd send to my dad, but I just felt you know
[02:28:18] Although I was the only lieutenant that made it through the entire deployment
[02:28:21] I was the only officer that made it through the entire deployment of my entire company that either guys either
[02:28:25] moved out to a different duty assignment or we wounded. I mean I was a butoon later with my men for 33 months
[02:28:32] But just unheard of in the army like a second lieutenant takes up a tune for 12 months to 18 months tops. I was there for 33 months and so
[02:28:41] When shit started hitting the fan real bad my baton commander's like we got to keep our leadership in place
[02:28:45] You know, but so because of that dynamic
[02:28:49] Right or wrong and I I largely think it was a really it was a piss poor decision now thinking and thinking back on it
[02:28:54] But I was lonely man not to sound like I didn't have anybody to talk to I didn't I didn't have the kind of relationship with my company commander
[02:29:01] Where I can go and vent to him. You know, I just didn't he was he had been there for a couple months and he was a great guy
[02:29:06] But we just didn't have that kind of relationship
[02:29:09] And I'm sure as hell wasn't getting ripe to my poutine sergeant or down
[02:29:12] And I didn't really have any contemporaries either because they were wounded and being moved out or moved around you know
[02:29:17] A moved around the battalion
[02:29:19] In fact, I mean actually it was more like I think we had a lieutenant go home because he had a real sickness in his family
[02:29:24] Like his father got sick and was in the hospital three of the leaves so that platoon was being run by an NCO and the other one was wounded
[02:29:29] It was just like I didn't have anybody to talk to so I was talking to my dad and it was a mistake
[02:29:34] I mean it was I mean if I if I had a mall again on that one I would not have done that
[02:29:39] So you were given him pretty much detailed ob sums of everything that was going on
[02:29:43] Not you know that like unclassified version. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I would just be like
[02:29:48] Sort of I mean I think yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I still I mean that's the actual email
[02:29:52] I sent him you know
[02:29:55] And I think I sort of dialed it back in the military doll my dad went to the naval academy and stayed until he was a sophomore
[02:30:01] But then left after that and I got what year what like what year to the first it was the first year that it allowed
[02:30:07] Females so I don't remember what that was I think you would say it was like 1978 or something
[02:30:12] Okay, that was his that was his pleb year in the naval academy, but I
[02:30:15] Mean I don't come from a military family. Yeah, you know, I'm like but your dad at least had the understanding
[02:30:20] It wasn't I should say on your dad at least your dad understood like a the military bra. Oh
[02:30:27] 100% yeah, and I think that he knew the role that he was fulfilling, but I think that it was slowly destroying him
[02:30:33] I mean because I remember there were times we'd go on missions and there was this
[02:30:37] We lost an entire battalion staff and 371 cavalry Colonel Fenty of an
[02:30:42] O5 went down with his battalion staff and this was before
[02:30:45] My first firefight in May, but my first firefight overlapped with that so we were outside the wire
[02:30:53] for 10 to 11 days and
[02:30:57] Backstate side it was like all they were getting on the ticker was CH 40 helicopter crash goes down
[02:31:03] 20 troops from the 10th mountain are dead in eastern Afghanistan and so my parents were just like
[02:31:10] Be side themselves. I mean, I can't imagine what they went through for that knit and then part of this was this all this
[02:31:17] Well, I wish they would have I would have just let them live in the matrix if that makes sense like just let them like
[02:31:23] This is why troops don't talk to their families when they're in combat. This is why they don't tell them the details of the operation
[02:31:29] ultimately is because
[02:31:30] They I think
[02:31:32] Maybe they know this maybe it's conscious. Maybe it's not but it it this this type of shit
[02:31:36] Can't really destroy someone who loves you deeply, you know, and I'm telling you I know it's not I
[02:31:43] It's like one of those things. I really wish I would have done differently. You know
[02:31:48] Yeah, that's
[02:31:50] That may sound harsh
[02:31:52] But I agree 100% and I never told anyone my wife anything if anything that was going on ever now
[02:32:00] You know it's hard like for my wife because I'm like telling her nothing
[02:32:03] But then like my guys are coming home. We'll get her my guy. She's going to my guys funeral, so that's
[02:32:07] Like the reality
[02:32:09] But even then it was I was just I didn't tell her anything my parents same thing. I didn't tell them anything because for this very reason
[02:32:18] I can't it seemed like it would be bird too too much of a burden. It is I mean
[02:32:22] It was a huge mistake. I mean now though now that I'm out
[02:32:26] I do think it's incredibly important for people to know
[02:32:29] What our men and women go through but when you're there and people are you know
[02:32:35] It was like so we had a LL Insta messenger back then and
[02:32:38] You know, that's how we would communicate with home and like my dad
[02:32:43] He would tell me later that he would sit there and he would turn on the
[02:32:47] A-O-L Insta messenger chime because he and that you know how you would like go idle and your net your user name would get
[02:32:53] He would stare at the computer turn the volume up on the computers all around the house to the one
[02:32:57] Insta mess yes, and so the A-O-L Insta messenger chime became almost like
[02:33:03] You know angel bells to him and
[02:33:06] Like to think about what that experience was like for him on a day-to-day basis
[02:33:11] And then him having to be a father to my sister and two younger brothers and a husband and work
[02:33:16] I don't know how we could have done it
[02:33:21] Check
[02:33:23] Going back to the book the special forces lieutenant Colonel regarded me with skepticism behind us
[02:33:30] The rest of his team huddled around the laptop silences on their weapon cool guy gear dangling from their chest rigs before we left Burmel
[02:33:36] I wanted to tell them that all this all that stuff would just slow them down where we were going no matter how fit a soldier is at
[02:33:44] 10,000 feet the only thing you can afford to carry is water ammo in your weapon everything else just drags you down
[02:33:49] So that was them that was the May 7 fight I concluded I've been instructed to give the special forces team a brief on my on the combat
[02:33:58] My opportunity to experience I started to explain June 10 for the lieutenant Colonel's look of disbelief solidified
[02:34:04] I concealed my frustration and continued to brief the special operators have been pushed over pushed down to Burmel to get a better feel for the amount of enemy
[02:34:12] Activity captain died asked me to take them out on patrol with us for a next few cycles something I was not looking forward to doing
[02:34:18] We had some friction with the other special forces teams in our area and as a result my men did not hold them in high regard
[02:34:24] There were attitude differences between us regular line infantry and the SF guys and I'd come to regard any liaison effort with them as a
[02:34:33] Ponderous and difficult task
[02:34:36] The ones we had encountered seemed all to have the elite attitude without the tactical acumen needed to keep them alive all in patrol
[02:34:43] Rather than focusing on the enemy they seem to go they seem to us to be preoccupied with frivolous and
[02:34:48] extraneous details such as what color they should paint their weapons
[02:34:51] We also didn't think much of them and they're refusal to wear protective gear such as helmets
[02:34:56] Most of the time they walked around nonchalantly in baseball caps after what we'd gone through that sort of theatrical stuff came across as sheer stupidity
[02:35:05] So you're gonna take these SF guys out and I actually I really like Captain dies decision of like
[02:35:11] Oh, you want to go and some trolls my guys cool. I'll see if you guys
[02:35:15] Yeah, look I mean it was frustrating. I mean just from an operational standpoint some of the SF teams because they would rotate in and out of skin the base
[02:35:21] And that was just like a really bad area, you know, and then we're talking 10 feet from a
[02:35:30] Packest any mill a pack mill check point. I mean they were really right on the border
[02:35:33] But some of the SF teams were great. They shared in tell great
[02:35:37] They would tell us when they were in our area of operations. I mean these are these are baseline things that I feel like if you're a commander
[02:35:43] And you're in a battle space and you're calling for fire and you don't know an SF team is out there somebody could die
[02:35:48] Oh, yeah, I can't tell you how many times we'd have SF teams rolling around with quads and shit in our area of operations
[02:35:54] We're like dude, what are you guys doing or new SF teams would roll in and we'd go down and brief them right?
[02:35:58] And I'm just some stupid infantry lieutenant, but I'd been through some shit
[02:36:01] And I knew I knew the area that we were fighting in really well and it'd be talking to these guys
[02:36:04] And it's almost like they didn't believe how terrible it was and
[02:36:09] I can I can count on one hand
[02:36:12] I'm probably four or five times at least where we had to go out and bail out an SF team because they'd roll outside the wire with four dudes
[02:36:20] And a pickup truck with a teeny penalty saw on the back of their pickup trip
[02:36:24] I mean look like something out of Star Wars. It looked really cool
[02:36:27] But we would tell them like man like if you're gonna be in a turret you gotta wear your helmet
[02:36:30] You can't go out there with your New York Yankees baseball hat on like I know that looks cool, but that's not you you really need to listen to what we're saying
[02:36:37] And I feel like some of them really paid the price. I mean they I know for a fact that
[02:36:42] We had they they were overrun in a couple different situations and I guess we just at that point in time and they deployment over over time
[02:36:49] It's just got annoying going out and bail them out all the time. You know
[02:36:54] SF teams have you know, they're small four-internal defense is their mission
[02:36:58] They're they work with indigenous populists. They don't have the combat power of a traditional infantry battalion
[02:37:03] And again some of them are great some of them not so much
[02:37:06] And my men didn't really hold them in high regard just because they were very dismissive of the stuff that they had experienced and so
[02:37:13] Captain I was like yeah, take this SF kernel out with you and of course as I'm like damn it
[02:37:17] You know no one likes to babysit anybody on a combat patrol especially if they're not trained with your guys
[02:37:22] You know, I know his name use this like this one
[02:37:25] This specific lieutenant kernel was
[02:37:30] He was just a single 10 guy like he was just a single-taired some he had a team with him, but he was a single 10 guy
[02:37:35] We go outside the wire on his own
[02:37:38] We took him outside the wire and we just got lit up and he was just he just couldn't believe it. He was like
[02:37:45] This is the greatest shit I've experienced this Columbia and I'm like all right sir calm down
[02:37:49] Let's like let's let you know like let's he's like what we can do what we can do we can counter attack
[02:37:54] We need to take the fight on my co-case or yeah, we're gonna do that but like just calm down first
[02:37:58] I mean he was so into it and at the end of that engagement he was just like
[02:38:03] He was that he was a believer man. He was like I cannot believe the shit that you guys are in down here all the time
[02:38:09] I you know, I've got to go back and I've got to tell General Freyclie about this user
[02:38:12] Did the 10-mount division commander at the time he was like I got to tell him about this I got to tell him I'm like
[02:38:18] Yeah, yeah, we're I'm like I told you in and you're in and my briefing to you like it's it's no joke around here
[02:38:25] Yeah, that's
[02:38:27] We we we
[02:38:29] We had a great relationship with all the conventional forces that we worked alongside we pretty much acted as close
[02:38:34] We could do acting like them, you know, we all
[02:38:37] Or the same uniforms is them we
[02:38:40] All had the same grooming standards is them. We yeah, that's what we did and we never we never got an opportunity
[02:38:46] Work with seals and each and a half can of Stan yeah, yeah, I mean who knows what the what the layout of the guys were at the time?
[02:38:52] But I my point is we had guys army guys and Marines
[02:38:58] Primarily army that had definitely we had to overcome a
[02:39:03] Pregnitist against special operations because they had had real bad kind of experiences that you're talking about in there and again like you said
[02:39:09] You know what there's great
[02:39:10] SF teams there's there's great seal teams there's horrible ones
[02:39:13] Just like there's great infantry battalions and great infantry companies and there's shady ones as well
[02:39:18] Absolutely kind of you you kind of just have to you have to look at what you're dealing with but my point is
[02:39:26] If you're out there be one of the good ones be someone that's gonna listen you know when we got to Ramadi
[02:39:31] There was a it was a national guard unit on the ground out of Pennsylvania the 2 to 8
[02:39:35] I remember it was
[02:39:37] Guy then went to ROTC was a 2-liter yeah, well, we probably worked with them. Yes, yeah when we showed up there
[02:39:43] Those guys were freaking awesome
[02:39:45] They had been there for like a year or 14 months or something like that and we went in with hey
[02:39:51] What do you want to tell us how can we learn from you that was a rat exact right attitude? Yeah, I mean I
[02:39:57] That's the I mean again humility you go in big eyes big ears humble self-effacing listen
[02:40:04] You know and what what I I remember telling specifically one special forces commander when I was down there who we had a great
[02:40:10] Relationship with because he sort of came into it with that attitude and I'm just like you know
[02:40:15] You guys are awesome. You know, I know you guys have got some serious hardcore cool guy training
[02:40:20] You know, but a bullet kills you just the same is gonna kill me man, you know and so
[02:40:25] It a very minimum
[02:40:27] Listen to some of the intel that I got that that may help you get your people out of here alive
[02:40:33] Right and you got your own TTPs you operate your own way, but there are things very specifically that you need to do here in this area of
[02:40:40] Operations that will give you a much better chance of surviving and he listened and
[02:40:45] And we had a great relationship because of that we shared intel and I mean that was a great combat multiplier for us because
[02:40:51] You know, we knew where the high value targets were I mean as a conventional infantry guy like
[02:40:56] You know, I mean we were getting the big kinetic fights and stuff
[02:40:59] But it's really not our job to go out unless we're doing an outer court on it's not our job to go after high value targets
[02:41:04] And if we get too close to him we could spook him and they could make it leave so
[02:41:07] These are these are I'm I share these things for for the listeners reason this is why Intel sharing to a certain extent
[02:41:12] This really important. It's really important. Yeah, exactly
[02:41:16] So another thing that happened with that special forces kernel is he actually they had some intel for you and you talked about earlier
[02:41:23] about I'm gonna I'm gonna cover real quick anyways because it's
[02:41:27] He gave you the intel and then here's you briefing the guys going back to the book we know the enemies intentions now
[02:41:33] I said that got everyone's attention
[02:41:36] They are seeking a decisive victory over an American platoon
[02:41:40] They want to pin us in a kill zone by disabling our vehicles then overrun us and kill us to the last man
[02:41:45] They plan to be head anyone they capture if they catch us in an observation point again
[02:41:51] They will try to direct a salt just like do June 10
[02:41:54] Sabo Groud guess we'll ratchet things up
[02:42:00] So that's what that's what you've been contending with this whole time. Yes, and it's real clear
[02:42:04] Looking in the rearview mirror obviously that's what they were trying to do. Yeah, right?
[02:42:09] I mean, I was watching you read that and you smile when you say this as ratchet things up because I feel like that
[02:42:16] That phrase like everything about you is ratchet things up like default aggressive
[02:42:21] Default aggressive, but yeah, I mean we I mean when we heard that intel from that special forces
[02:42:29] Lieutenant Colonel and I still remember him by name, but I'm not gonna say it because he's I think he's still active, but
[02:42:36] I mean, okay, so you know they're trying to kill you
[02:42:38] But what you know what their mission is every time they attack you they want to overrun you and cut off your heads and
[02:42:45] Put them on stakes and we heard them say it over and over again on this this this this Colonel gave us radio
[02:42:53] That is listen to the recordings. I mean we heard them say it and then and then and then after a while
[02:42:57] We'd see these DVD videos trickle down to our base of attacks where they did just that in our AO of other coalition troops
[02:43:05] Meaning like you know other Afghan national troops out there
[02:43:09] It starts to hit pretty close to home and we thought the war was personal when we lost
[02:43:15] I've told now it really was you know, I mean war life death issues are always
[02:43:20] Intimately personal, but there's something about knowing the enemy's mission and knowing what they want to do and
[02:43:26] Knowing how they want to do it that just it can rattle you a little bit. I mean I feel like to this day the idea of
[02:43:34] I mean look if you've ever seen those videos of America. I mean sure you had their terrifying. I mean
[02:43:40] That it's you know the idea of getting beheaded with like a butter knife is not something that like
[02:43:46] You know it's a scary way to go
[02:43:48] Yeah, and as far as I'm concerned and as far as I was concerned that was absolutely the goal of everyone
[02:43:54] I ever just looked at on the battlefield like that's and you know when you I don't know if you did you do
[02:43:59] Did you guys capture a lot of bad guys? We did we captured a few of them
[02:44:03] We would just give we talked to them and get the intel that we could and we give them to the A and A like
[02:44:07] Sometimes we would capture a bad guy and actually echo is asking me about this earlier taste like what what are they like and
[02:44:14] Some of them
[02:44:15] They had a look in their eyes like you know 100% that if the tables were turned
[02:44:20] They would 100% be selling off your head no doubt about it. You can see it in their eyes
[02:44:26] They're just black with hate
[02:44:28] I don't know where that hate comes from a lifetime of indoctrination
[02:44:31] But that you just see something in their eyes where you know that they would if the tables were turned
[02:44:38] They would absolutely cut your head off no question about it
[02:44:41] So I kind of always thought that that's what what would happen
[02:44:47] You guys so that had a little I guess we'll say a psychological
[02:44:52] Impact on you guys now knowing this 100% but there was nothing more evident of a
[02:44:57] I'll call it a negative psychological impact
[02:45:02] Then a you guys were on a little outpost and you guys get hit with a massive rocket attack and you guys are completely pinned down
[02:45:11] You're taking rocket after rocket after rocket after rocket after rocket after rocket and finally you get the call in to Captain die
[02:45:20] And you know you want in direct fire you want to put this stuff this problem out and
[02:45:24] And he comes back on the radio and says negative three six
[02:45:28] That's Pakistan territory another rocket skittered past low and fast everyone molded himself against the Haskell bag wall
[02:45:35] As it spewed shrapnel and flame across the outpost the explosion sent peels of terror through us
[02:45:42] We can't shoot back
[02:45:46] All we could do is lie there captives
[02:45:48] I saw the platoon change the men's eyes grew hollowed and wide we'd been through dangerous encounters before
[02:45:56] But we'd always been able to fight back
[02:45:59] That gave us something to do and occupied our minds our inability to act now exposed us to terrors fullest effects
[02:46:09] A platoon's morale is an elastic quality from its baseline events
[02:46:14] Effecting the men can cause it to bend in different directions male gives it a boost
[02:46:19] So does hot chow after a long day a small gesture by a first sergeant showing that he has the well-being of the men in mind can also go a long way a
[02:46:28] Victory in combat can bring a euphoria a
[02:46:31] defeat will bring despair and doubt
[02:46:34] We'd seen or experienced the gamut and the men had always returned to their baseline laughing a river and selves after a little while it was our natural state
[02:46:44] But something happened under those rockets
[02:46:47] We'd never felt so utterly helpless being unable to fight back had stripped us of our aggressive spirit
[02:46:53] It had left us feeling impenant mere observers of death and destruction thrown our way
[02:46:59] That's I mean to me I feel like that's the
[02:47:05] The opposite of default aggressive right I mean that's like
[02:47:10] There's nothing worse than being on the receiving end of indirect fire and not have the ability to you don't have the ability to do anything about it, you know
[02:47:19] This particular engagement happened at fob schgan at the alamo, which is
[02:47:23] You look at me just stones throw away from a pack mill checkpoint that is that is you know
[02:47:30] They were probably two or three discas pointed right at the alamo this basically this
[02:47:34] Colot you know with four guard towers around it you're you know the pack mill have
[02:47:42] They're on the high ground all around you right looking right down into your base and
[02:47:47] The Taliban whoever's firing indirect out of that they were using
[02:47:50] Incorporating with the pack mill using them as shields knowing that
[02:47:55] We wouldn't be able to shoot back, you know, so this is a new evolving threat the first time that we had faced it
[02:48:01] What they were trying to do is get us to open up on a pack mill checkpoint cost some international incident
[02:48:08] It'd be all over the news in America. We'd get blamed for it, you know
[02:48:12] The Taliban al Qaeda whoever conducted attack you'd never hear mention of them and
[02:48:16] And
[02:48:18] We were spread out from our trucks and the indirect was so heavy that we couldn't get back to them and so
[02:48:23] God man, you just you never feel as so helpless then you're just sitting there
[02:48:28] You know, tucked up against the hasco wall and
[02:48:31] Just hoping that a rocket doesn't land on your head
[02:48:34] There's nothing that you can do about it, but just like let go, you know
[02:48:39] Was this directory the rockets there was coming flat traffic from a trajectory like high to low
[02:48:44] There would be a shot from an elevated position right into us, but it was direct fire. There was direct fire. Yeah, no question and so
[02:48:51] One of the rockets hit an a and a guard tower like a wooden guard tower just blew it to smithereens
[02:48:56] Which is right by the exit so the the base was just basically it was a square with a square
[02:49:01] Colot on the inside our trucks were lined up in a row
[02:49:05] Right next to the compound and they were just taking a trap and we were spread out all over the base
[02:49:09] We couldn't even get back to our trucks to X-Fell
[02:49:12] And I think we fired a couple 60 millimeter mortars in the handheld just to make them think that we were shooting back
[02:49:20] Eventually after a while after about an hour of that. I mean, God man the longest hour of your life
[02:49:26] How in hour in hour we got an Apache
[02:49:29] We got an Apache to come down and just do a show of force, but we couldn't we couldn't engage with it
[02:49:34] So when the Apache got down and did the show of force
[02:49:39] It bought us enough time
[02:49:41] To run to our trucks and get the hell out of Dodge and I remember rolling back into the base man
[02:49:46] I'm telling you it was just I mean, God, it's like
[02:49:50] It's sinking feeling in your heart that it's only a matter of time
[02:49:55] And I remember walking
[02:49:57] Back into my hooch and the mail was there and it was on my desk and I remember opening up this little letter from my cousin Freddy and he had drawn this American soldier with a flag
[02:50:07] It was the fourth-inch of light and I didn't even realize it, you know
[02:50:09] And I just sat there and I looked at it and I thought of it and I thought of like home
[02:50:15] And I missed home and I thought of Steelers and I thought I'd go into pirate's games and a big Pittsburgh sports fan and
[02:50:21] All the things that reminded me of home like hand burgers hot dogs whatever, you know beer
[02:50:27] Music and I just thought to myself like you know if it's only a matter of time
[02:50:32] Like I can't out-allow myself to
[02:50:35] Think of any of this stuff anymore
[02:50:37] No, I basically it's in order to survive and
[02:50:41] Environment where your day-to-day life is it's only a matter of time
[02:50:48] Hope can be a cost-acquality in combat, you know hope leads to fear and
[02:50:54] That fear can lead to hesitation on the battlefield or not doing what needs to be done at the moment it needs to be done and when that happens
[02:51:03] Men die and so
[02:51:05] I remember very very distinctly folding up that picture instead of hanging on my wall folding up that picture and putting it in my foot locker
[02:51:14] And just just you know keeping it there if I made it home great I'd have it for later
[02:51:18] But if not I could not allow myself to think back to those fleeting moments of home
[02:51:24] I just had basically just give up hope
[02:51:26] Yeah, I've ever make it home. It's a weird way to live, man, but with the only thing that you're worried about is living or dying once you flip that switch
[02:51:33] It's a hard one to it's a hard one to turn back on my wife when I was in
[02:51:38] Remodied my wife sent me an email and said hey the kids want to see a picture of you know where you sleep at night and I was like okay
[02:51:44] You know I had in this old Saddam regime building. I had a room and it had a plywood whatever bed and
[02:51:51] Part of the plywood bed was you know sticking up almost like a headboard
[02:51:55] So anyways, I was just gonna take a picture of it and I looked at it and it was just completely empty and I
[02:51:59] We said oh this not good so I took open the drawer took out a folder took a picture of my wife and kids and hung them up
[02:52:08] Took a picture of my bed with those pictures in it
[02:52:11] Took the pictures down put them back in the folder and put them back in the drawer like same exact thoughts that you had like there are just
[02:52:19] way too many decisions that need to be made
[02:52:22] That the last thing I need to be thinking about
[02:52:24] Is my wife and family back home and the only thing I need to be thinking about is these guys on the ground with me
[02:52:31] 100% and
[02:52:32] It's because I feel like if you start
[02:52:35] Longing for home and you start missing those things it did distract you from the mission that needs to be done
[02:52:41] I got and when I saw guys get in that mindset when I saw my guys starting to you know
[02:52:47] Stare at the pictures of home that made me super nervous, you know, and I would like do things that you know maybe trying pull them off
[02:52:54] Let them you know get some you know some time back in camp or whatever trying get them to get over that because I
[02:53:02] Totally agree if you're if that's what's in the front of your mind. That's not gonna be good for you
[02:53:07] And it's it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna inhibit your default aggressive attitude and then all those things that we talked about the positives of being
[02:53:15] Default aggressive are all gonna disappear. Can I gonna be default hesitant? Well, yeah default hesitant default defensive and that case
[02:53:21] You see in in that specific chapter how costic and destructive
[02:53:27] Default defensive or default hesitant can be how it how it goes how it destroys
[02:53:34] How it can shake the hearts of men and at at the time where you need them to be the most formidable
[02:53:39] It can make them question what they're doing can make them think of home
[02:53:42] It can make him hesitate in their actions and all of those things threaten the success of the mission and just imagine a world war one
[02:53:50] I just go in
[02:53:52] 28 months of that of that exactly that's that's that's that in fact
[02:53:57] I did exactly it is a nightmare every single day just not
[02:54:01] Knowing if a round's gonna land in your head is the worst it's the worst position to be in
[02:54:07] In direct fire you get back to base you see you see Captain die
[02:54:15] Sean you all right I turned to see Captain got Captain die regarding me with concern
[02:54:20] Yeah, I'm okay. I guess we found out today why they moved fobs skin away from the border
[02:54:24] I guess so I'm sorry I couldn't give you any indirect
[02:54:28] Thank you pack mill assholes allies my ass
[02:54:31] You sure you're okay he asked again your hands are shaking
[02:54:35] I'll be all right sir. I lied
[02:54:38] It was just rough having to take it for so long and not being able to shoot back
[02:54:43] He put his hand on my shoulder or shook me gently if you need anything let me know
[02:54:49] Thank you sir and the unspoken was we're infantry
[02:54:55] Handle it exactly exactly we're infantry handle it. Yeah, okay if anything let me know but the unspoken is
[02:55:03] Hey brother this is the job so
[02:55:07] You know get your shit together, you know
[02:55:11] And I remember when we had that conversation
[02:55:13] We were standing outside our tactical operation operation center around the backside of where the officers were staying
[02:55:20] And I was just standing out there smoking to cigarette in my hands were shaking and he could see it
[02:55:26] You know I
[02:55:28] I look back on that moment and I was really thankful that he did he said something you know
[02:55:32] I needed to hear that I needed to hear socket up handle it. I needed that
[02:55:39] And I think that was a really strong leadership moment from for him
[02:55:42] You know to even just have the emotional intelligence to see that one of his subordinate leaders were struggling and come over and address it immediately
[02:55:50] Even if it was handle it at least I knew he was he was keeping an eye on things that it mattered
[02:55:56] You know, and I think that's important for soldiers
[02:55:58] You
[02:56:01] You talk in the book about
[02:56:04] When you're on the fob and what's going on in the fob and one of the things you got on the fob
[02:56:08] Which I think is just a common thing for all Americans at war as you had dogs little pet dogs
[02:56:13] That you guys adopted and kind of have fun with and it gives you a little break from them and not needing it gives you a little
[02:56:18] warmth in your world and
[02:56:21] I know when we always had dogs my first to point me at dogs. We had a dog named RPG and a dog named morger
[02:56:27] Cute little bastards. So what ours was trigger there you can trigger
[02:56:34] You guys are out on and up and
[02:56:38] Actually prior to this one of the dogs had like riled that one of the females
[02:56:44] She complained blah blah blah blah and you explain this all in the book
[02:56:48] But what it leads to is this
[02:56:51] The leadership
[02:56:53] On the fob took all the dogs and killed them and burned the bodies while you guys were out in the field
[02:57:03] You guys come back and I'm going to the book anger and a ignition that could work with the infantry feeds on such
[02:57:08] Emotions it motivates and makes us eager to release violence upon our fob
[02:57:12] There was no fight in Chris that morning. He's one of your troops and he was the barometer of the platoon's morale
[02:57:18] I saw his resignation reflected on everyone's faces
[02:57:21] Cowen moved like a sleepwalker even sobo appeared affected as I watched the platoon struggle that morning
[02:57:27] I realized that I'd overlooked a reality of Afghanistan
[02:57:30] We were facing two enemies not one the howconny network's fighters we could handle any time
[02:57:36] They chose to challenge us we could smite them with fire power and make them pay for the effort
[02:57:41] We would not give ground and I knew we would never know defeat
[02:57:45] But this other enemy was more devious
[02:57:47] How does one do battle with fob politics at the moment?
[02:57:52] I was at a complete loss without a doubt we needed to figure out a way to do it because more blows like this and a
[02:57:58] Conterer the platoon apart
[02:57:59] It was with relief that we put Burmel in our rear view mirrors the countryside was ours
[02:58:05] You guys are rolling out another another up devolid of politics devoid of politics stupid rules and petty slits
[02:58:11] It was the one place where we knew
[02:58:13] It was the one place where most feared to tread
[02:58:18] We were among our own kind depending on men we trusted and loved and the danger the insurgents presented at every turn
[02:58:26] seemed to small price to pay for these respects
[02:58:31] So there you are yeah
[02:58:34] It's better just to get off bed is and go into the fields you can get away from the fob politics
[02:58:39] It was I mean those dogs were members of our platoon
[02:58:41] I mean my men would come back from patrols the first thing that they would do is look for those dogs, you know and
[02:58:48] They'd sleep in the barracks with them and you know, there's this rule general order number one
[02:58:51] Some part of general order number one no dogs on the basis because you know out of fear that they'd have some disease and so
[02:58:57] The decision that was the decision to put them down was made
[02:59:02] The dog grow out at one of the male clerks who wasn't even a part of our base was on our base who flew in on a ring
[02:59:08] We're out and got grow at and then went and told her higher our brigade
[02:59:12] Headquartered elements and they flew medics down to our base that weren't stationed on our base that killed the dogs the moment we left out of the wire and we came back man and it just
[02:59:23] We weren't supposed to have them right
[02:59:26] But our medics it also vaccinated them, you know our medics that I made it safe so
[02:59:33] It was one of those things. It was just like god damn it can't you just give us this small
[02:59:36] thing, you know
[02:59:41] Rules and regulations are important
[02:59:43] I think it's of the utmost importance to follow me if you disagree with them, you know
[02:59:49] But some things like this when you're trying desperately to have soldiers cling to what little humanity
[02:59:53] They might have left in a savage land like Jesus Christ just gave us the dogs, you know
[02:59:58] They couldn't even give them that in the way that they took them from us
[03:00:00] Was even worse, you know to come back and have you know waited at the barracks. Hey, where are the dogs? Oh, hey, they they killed them and then they threw them on the burn pits
[03:00:11] You know my guys like ran out to the burn pit. I mean my men were ready to kill somebody, you know and I just remember like Jesus, you know
[03:00:22] Hey, fight the enemy out there. It's at least if you know it's life in death and
[03:00:26] There's elegance and that simplicity, right you only think you're worried about living or dying and the man next to you
[03:00:32] But when you come back on the base is how do you fight against that shit?
[03:00:36] How do you deal with that stuff? Those those things are morale killers and I'd rather
[03:00:41] Control for that by being outside the wire and being you know call my own shots and my men
[03:00:46] We're familiar with the train
[03:00:49] We know that we had each other's backs. We know that we weren't gonna stab each other in the back like that
[03:00:53] You know I mean this like those spot politics like
[03:00:57] Doorchickers warriors they don't deal well with stuff like that
[03:01:00] Yeah, it's like a glimpse of the rest of the normal world
[03:01:04] It absolutely is yeah like the fob is one
[03:01:07] Remove from normal world because you get a little bit but
[03:01:11] It still is a reflection of life just normal everyday political crap that runs around
[03:01:18] You guys get out on patrol
[03:01:20] And you guys are driving and you see a boy like a young boy alone and you stop the vehicles
[03:01:28] And here we go to the book something eight nights sir grease and said and that's sleepy
[03:01:32] Sam Elliott voice of his
[03:01:34] The years of smoking and drinking had given it a gravely rugged quality
[03:01:39] Indominable really nope
[03:01:41] I said shaking my head under my helmet camels kneeling front of the boy now talking to a low comforting voice the boy wind
[03:01:47] His head waving from side to side he seemed disengaged lost his in his own tormented world world
[03:01:55] Who the hell would give dope to a little kid?
[03:01:58] With an A and A do something like that. I thought 15 feet from the boy
[03:02:03] We both gasped and stopped in our tracks
[03:02:08] Under a shock of dirt and crusted black hair
[03:02:11] We saw a disfigured face about six years old
[03:02:14] His eyes had been gouged out the sockets burned black by whatever heated implements had been used to do the deed
[03:02:27] Next to me grease and exhaled sharply Jesus Christ what is this?
[03:02:32] The boy opened his mouth again
[03:02:35] Another wine spilled out between cracked lips
[03:02:39] Behind them we saw ruptured gums and
[03:02:42] And no teeth
[03:02:44] You're fucking kidding me grease and said get use of and dock panjota
[03:02:50] Panto ha is his name Panto ha Panto ha I said to my patoon sergeant use if reached
[03:02:57] Us first and look down at the boy either he'd seen this sort of thing before or a half a decade of war had steeled him to such sites
[03:03:05] The boy's condition evoke no visible emotions in my turf
[03:03:09] He stood quietly next to me his use car salesman
[03:03:14] Affection stowed for the moment and we haven't really talked about you. Seth much, but when you lost abduel
[03:03:21] You Seth moved up into the primary
[03:03:23] Interpreter position and you described as a use car salesman
[03:03:27] He's one of those guys. It seems a little bit shady, but you're working with what you got that's right. Yeah
[03:03:32] You end up taking the boy to a nearby village
[03:03:34] And
[03:03:36] Here you describe the village the village was a frightful site a clean bed would have been a price a luxury in this place
[03:03:42] The mud wall the hots were barren of even the most basic essentials
[03:03:46] Little food no clean water the ground between the dwellings was riddled with human feces animal
[03:03:51] Dung and filth the smell of such a place is one that none of us will ever forget
[03:03:55] It lingered like a tangible presence in the air. I could feel it seeping into my clothing for a second
[03:04:01] I flash back to my first day in country after the girl had died in my arms. I had burned my blood soaked ACUs
[03:04:08] No amount of cleaning would ever get out this stench
[03:04:12] A boy perhaps six years old limp out of a nearby hut and took station near one corner watching us with burnished black eyes
[03:04:20] There was a wary world in the world beness in them that I'd never seen back home
[03:04:25] Well, it's in bruises ran the length of his face neck and arms
[03:04:31] He'd been badly beaten
[03:04:35] And then an ancient man
[03:04:37] Clad and dirt-mard clothes emerged from one mud hut
[03:04:41] His beard was dyed red something that all village elders do to show their status as community leaders
[03:04:47] When he saw us he paused and offered a guarded greeting
[03:04:52] Then he saw the I-List boy
[03:04:54] His composure cracked and a look of pure love and relief crossed his face
[03:04:59] He hurried over and wrapped the boy in his arms the two shared words and the elder held the boy in a fierce protective embrace
[03:05:07] He looked at me the boy's head tucked under his jaw and pressed hard against his neck and I could see that the old man's eyes had grown wet
[03:05:15] He began to speak to me
[03:05:17] You said listen and then said into clipped and professional tone the village elder thanks you
[03:05:24] This boy is his grandson
[03:05:27] Greason his voice barely a whisper said you said find out what happened to this kid you said not an engaged the viller
[03:05:36] The vill the village elder in a long discussion
[03:05:39] We listened as the two conversed in their native language anxiously awaiting the answer
[03:05:43] At last you said turned his attention to us
[03:05:48] His face a mask and matter a faculty told us the elders story
[03:05:54] The enemy had swept into the village a few weeks ago bent on punishing its inhabitants for supporting the coalition
[03:06:02] I doubted that any Americans had ever visited this place
[03:06:06] The enemy had kidnapped the elders oldest grandson
[03:06:10] He was the future of the family the boy most cherished and revered in afghan culture
[03:06:18] Taking him was a blow that nobody in the village would forget
[03:06:23] They had taken the elders grandson back to one of their mountain hideouts
[03:06:29] Where they gouged out his eyes
[03:06:31] They had turned him into a sexual plaything knocking out his teeth to increase their pleasure with him
[03:06:38] They had raped this sexual boy for weeks
[03:07:02] So that's what you're dealing with
[03:07:08] Yeah, you know
[03:07:11] The enemy of that we face over there
[03:07:14] That's what they're capable of and in this village there's no way that I mean we didn't ever even come into contact with them
[03:07:20] There were so many small border villages
[03:07:24] And the Hindu-Kish mountains that have not even talked to a tribe that's a click down the road let alone ever seen an American troop
[03:07:31] There's no just the mere thought that
[03:07:36] They may have been working with Americans was enough to cause something like that
[03:07:41] It just shows you the depth and the prairie the enemy that we're fighting is why we fight against them
[03:07:45] This is why Americans are there this is why we matter this is the why the way that we fight matters
[03:07:51] You know there is a right and wrong to how the world
[03:07:54] You know conducts itself, you know I firmly believe that
[03:08:00] You know some cultures are better than others, you know I think our Western culture should be preserved and fought for and protected
[03:08:07] and promulgated as much as possible
[03:08:10] We live in the best country on the face of the earth why shouldn't we try to do that for other people
[03:08:15] If and when we can I know that that's probably a controversial view but
[03:08:19] You know those I know that those people in Afghanistan
[03:08:25] This village in particular was so grateful for what we brought to them how we help them we did a medcap in their village
[03:08:32] So much of what we did in Afghanistan was taking care of the people that was like a that was really important to us
[03:08:37] I mean we were the
[03:08:39] We were the we were the main powerbrovers in the a.o. there's no question about that
[03:08:43] We dominated this rain we kicked the enemies ass, but we really did care about the Afghan people in fact
[03:08:48] That first engagement that we that we talked about
[03:08:52] Today we were going to do a human our initial tasking was doing observation pros yes, but we were stopping off and
[03:08:59] Advilages to do a humanitarian
[03:09:01] Distribution, you know we blankets food rice
[03:09:05] Coloring books crayons for kids and I remember like getting back from that mission point out this
[03:09:09] Crayola crayon box with a center hunter center punched pull the set a seven center punched hole of 762 round right through the center of it and so
[03:09:16] We cared a lot about the people man and
[03:09:20] You know the enemy and that first rocket attack where they killed a bunch of those kids didn't matter
[03:09:24] They knew they those rockets had landed in a school. They kept firing at us, you know
[03:09:29] There was an informant a human intelligence informant that we were working with the hope exploit high by your targets in the border
[03:09:35] Early on in the deployment
[03:09:36] He was one of the few people that lived in the mountainous border region between Afghanistan and Pakistan
[03:09:41] Had the courage to stay there throughout at all enemy found out that he was working and helping help on us and
[03:09:47] They third grenade in the middle of his compound and killed a newborn baby killed his baby
[03:09:51] I mean they just do terrible things to their kids and
[03:09:56] That's the kind of shit that stays with you forever. It's it's you know
[03:10:00] I'm telling you I like I said before I don't lose a wink of sleep over the bad guys that we killed over there
[03:10:05] I'm not
[03:10:07] Don't lose a wink of sleep over it
[03:10:08] But it's moments like this that stay with you forever. It's you see and I think like you get a lot of time to think about this
[03:10:14] Sort of shit when you're over there because like when you look at the kids and you're driving through these villages and
[03:10:20] You know they liked American troops, you know
[03:10:22] They appreciated what we did they appreciated how he protected them
[03:10:26] The people in Afghanistan and those children they have nothing
[03:10:30] Nothing there's no running water. There's no electricity. There's no roads. There's no economy. There's no jobs
[03:10:35] The men all summer long go out there and they cut wood so they have enough wood to keep their family warm
[03:10:39] Doing the winter and then the cycle starts again and so these kids though
[03:10:43] I remember watching them
[03:10:45] From an observation post one day early on and like just watching them run around and play soccer with this deflated soccer ball and bare feet in the mountains
[03:10:51] Like running on these like rocks that had to be razor sharp, but I just think into myself like damn it man
[03:10:56] kids are the most amazing thing in the world. You know it's because
[03:11:01] Because here they are
[03:11:03] They don't even know they have nothing they literally have nothing and probably one of the most dangerous places in the face of the planet
[03:11:09] And here they are running around playing soccer. They don't even have shoes, you know
[03:11:12] Running around playing soccer being kids, you know, they're so awesome. You know and that's what we were there to protect them and then then then to see
[03:11:20] to see
[03:11:22] You know
[03:11:23] The way that the enemy treated them
[03:11:26] I knew we just had to kill as many of them as human they possible
[03:11:29] Like for the year that we were supposed to be there we ended being there a year and a half but
[03:11:34] the year that we were there I just felt it from this point forward like yeah we were in fights
[03:11:39] You know we weren't gonna draw our weapon unless we were fired upon first but all that changed after this
[03:11:47] You you continue on here more members of the elders family ventured out they came to the boy to hug and reassure him
[03:11:53] He whimpered softly and I wondered if he was crying then I realized he couldn't cry
[03:12:00] His tear ducts had been burned away
[03:12:09] I mean don't people that do that to young children
[03:12:12] You know don't people like that deserve to die. Yes 100% I mean they don't deserve
[03:12:18] Life is a privilege every single waking breath that you have as a privilege you know
[03:12:26] And they certainly don't earn it
[03:12:36] Moving through moving on back to the book pin hold nice sat together watching an episode of the TV series the office
[03:12:42] We howled with laughter and thought about how foreign the world of the cubicle land was to us
[03:12:49] This is the greatest show ever I told tin hole I knew you'd like it sir was that your first time seeing it? Yes
[03:12:55] You know how far away from scranton to jigrop? I'm from Pittsburgh. Oh there you go.
[03:13:00] Couple hours you know, but we damn you we watched it man. I'm telling you so we were into all kinds of shows over there
[03:13:05] You know the whole putton we gather around this is like I mean we had these like little
[03:13:09] Laptop computers we all sit around like screen this big and watch these shows but the office was one of those things
[03:13:16] That it was just like holy shit like look at what we just talked about how much of a
[03:13:22] I mean it's just the most sad depressing thing. I mean
[03:13:25] But people actually live like this like I know people liked white and in real life that work
[03:13:32] You know what I mean like yeah, this is I I just thought it was such a crazy
[03:13:37] Like compared like here we are doing this Americans actually live like this. Yes
[03:13:43] This is where they go to work every day crazy, you know
[03:13:45] It's completely crazy. You got a kid who's at his eyes burned out
[03:13:49] He's bad as teeth pulled so he could be a sex toy for these savages
[03:13:53] We found we found kids like that other units all over Afghanistan
[03:13:58] It's heinous and then then then the movie
[03:14:01] Slumdog millionaire came out a few years later and that happens in that movie too
[03:14:04] It's it's it's just
[03:14:11] I mean it's just a dare I don't understand it I don't understand
[03:14:15] It's just people that do that to children do not deserve to breathe. They don't deserve to live no
[03:14:22] zero
[03:14:25] So you guys are you guys are carrying on
[03:14:27] Um for rare change of pace we were inside the wire with a day off we had desperately needed to break the men were relaxing sleeping and lifting weights
[03:14:35] The episode ended gotten me more I asked whole first season sir. You're you're awesome
[03:14:40] We started another episode
[03:14:42] Made way through pinhole wrinkled as nose and looked at me
[03:14:45] Wait, are you an office fan? Yes you are yes
[03:14:50] It's like my favorite show have you ever watched the British office. Yes. I don't think it's his funny
[03:14:54] It's not as fun. I don't find British people. I know what's fun. I like more the British one you do because the British one is is
[03:15:01] I don't like this how don't like this hot chocolate take it's kind of depressing
[03:15:07] The British one is kind of depressed is stopian because you know because in the American one
[03:15:13] It's funny and it's it's funny because you're like oh this is a little bit this is a little bit
[03:15:19] Um
[03:15:21] It's a little bit too much right
[03:15:24] Michael Scott is a little bit too much. He's just a little bit too much
[03:15:27] I love not tons too much, but he's just a little bit too much and you go okay. He's a caricature
[03:15:32] He's he's an extreme version for comic effect, right? That's what you get when you watch the American office and all the characters
[03:15:39] You know Dwight he's he's like you know a guy like Dwight
[03:15:44] But Dwight is like is like one level up from that that's what makes him funny
[03:15:48] Right, so you and then you mix in kind of the regular kind of normal characters and we know people like them
[03:15:54] And so then you get to see this story unfold, but it's all
[03:15:56] slightly beyond
[03:15:58] actual belief I feel like I know bosses like Michael Scott
[03:16:02] I feel like I see them sometimes on my god. You do see them you see them in little bits and pieces
[03:16:07] But the British office
[03:16:09] You're like hey, this is this is like what a guy is really like this guy is really like delusional and this guy
[03:16:15] It's just to me it has this thing to it that I that I like I like the fact that you know
[03:16:21] I heard this say it about
[03:16:24] singers
[03:16:25] Really good singers
[03:16:27] Have a hint of sadness in their voice when you hear when you hear a
[03:16:32] Really good singer saying you'll think it's really good if they have a hint of sadness in their voice
[03:16:37] And I think the British office has like a hint of sadness in it that to me makes it better
[03:16:43] You like the sadness the sadness makes you happy the no I don't know if it makes me happy
[03:16:48] But it hits me in a way that I feel is is
[03:16:54] I think it hits me in a in a stronger way
[03:16:57] This is this is some this is some deep jacco stuff here. I just really expect to get that deep into your emotional
[03:17:03] He reacts to the obvious here we are here. We are indeed we're we're at shrimp farms right
[03:17:07] Oh
[03:17:12] My my my my my
[03:17:14] Mos my you
[03:17:15] Do you do I my my Mos yeah, oh quit talking
[03:17:19] The funny thing is my family my whole family likes the office so we've had you know if we're gonna watch TV show
[03:17:26] That's probably actually I don't mean no if we watch anymore to you any other
[03:17:29] You watch office space the movie I've watched the office space the lighting
[03:17:33] Yes, because office I forget which is which but the office the show and office space one was made to be like the
[03:17:41] Like office space was made to be the movie version of the office or vice versa
[03:17:45] I forget what you want no that well, maybe but the British office came out and
[03:17:50] That is what the office in America is based on and it's the office space was based on a cartoon like a comic strip
[03:17:56] Yeah, so it was like
[03:17:58] So it might have been vice versa, but basically one was like the movie version of the other
[03:18:04] But Ricky Jervais in England wrote the original office and that's one's in England
[03:18:10] And then they took it and revamped it a little bit it made it a little bit happier for the US of a
[03:18:14] We like the smile and laugh and we want to make sure Sean Barnett was getting his
[03:18:19] Getting his humor on right there
[03:18:21] I know you know what you know what Choco the sadness doesn't make me happy
[03:18:26] I know like we feel like there needs to be another podcast exploring that
[03:18:30] Well, we'll go into that
[03:18:33] But speaking of just
[03:18:35] Things not being funny
[03:18:38] You going back to the book, sir. That's pretty nasty what that shit coming out of your ear
[03:18:43] I reached up and felt something like jello coming out of my on my neck
[03:18:47] I was pink and red and streaked with yellow
[03:18:51] It smells like banana sir. He added I got up and wiped it off
[03:18:55] Thirdly embarrassed so you need to get that checked out
[03:18:58] I nodded as a sat back down. I know I'll get a scan of burger at background at Bogram a few days
[03:19:04] When I had home on leave. Thank you everyone's worried about you. I was worried too
[03:19:09] But I knew if a real doc examined me. He'd never let me return to the men
[03:19:12] I was having bouts of double vision and frequent migraines and at times I was having trouble remembering things as a result
[03:19:20] I made an obsessive effort to write everything down before missions
[03:19:23] We finished the second episode and I said goodbye to pinhole headed back to my room. Lieutenant a
[03:19:29] Deep and booming voice called a staff sergeant was walking down the hallway in our hooch a cigarette dangling from his tight lips about my age with her
[03:19:36] Seating brown black hair. He walked with gravitas as if he would made of chiseled granite
[03:19:42] He had a rounded face with sharp cheeks eyes partially concealed by a squint a Ranger tab on his shoulder
[03:19:49] What can I do you for sergeant?
[03:19:51] Who the hell is this guy?
[03:19:52] Jeff Hall
[03:19:54] I'm a new squad leader sir. He stuck out his hand. I shook it and nearly had my fingers squashed like sausages
[03:20:00] That'd meet you all welcome to our wall. Poutoon. Thank you sir
[03:20:05] And this that's your introduced introduction to this guy. All who seemed like he was just a
[03:20:11] Highly motivated individual ready was man. And he's I don't know if I don't know if we're gonna talk about our
[03:20:16] Anopity saved this Marines life. Marine gets shot in the pelvis is
[03:20:24] Pelvis now like I wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for Jeff Hall and man was he a character. That's for sure
[03:20:31] You're you're out in the field
[03:20:33] And we'll just jump right into it. We triggered the ambush early and from a different direction that they'd expected
[03:20:39] As we pulled into a perimeter around the village their fire was disjointed not nearly as accurate as usual
[03:20:44] We'd thrown them off guard and they'd reflexively open fire they had waited
[03:20:48] They they had they waited until we were in the northern part of the ambush
[03:20:52] We would have been hit as they originally designed for a moment
[03:20:56] I wish Captain Dye was here having two platoons to manage was awkward since I couldn't really give orders to Delta
[03:21:02] I could only give the platoon squad leaders guidance
[03:21:05] So you're out there with two platoons at this point. I was a senior officer on the ground
[03:21:08] But it's not my it's not my job to maneuver more than my platoon. I'll do it now do it well. Yeah, but
[03:21:16] It's so it was a leadership challenge for sure because those guys don't they're not under my command was their officer out there too
[03:21:27] It's hard. No, I I they had an officer. I wasn't sure if he was out here for that for this specific engagement
[03:21:33] I think that he was which is why it makes it awkward because we were the same rank. You know
[03:21:39] I was the senior platoon leader of senior year lieutenant out there on the ground
[03:21:42] But still this is why captains exists and you know
[03:21:45] This is why company commanders exist the maneuver companies. You know the tenants exist in the army anyway to maneuverable tunes
[03:21:51] So it would have been great to have a company commander out there maneuvering these elements
[03:21:55] He but in Captain Dye's defense and I I know that he believed this
[03:22:00] He believed us to be
[03:22:02] You know he didn't micromanages. Yeah, he knew us to be competent and he let us do our he let us do our job
[03:22:08] And he felt that he could maneuver us from the fog which is his prerogative and he could he could do that so you guys are in this
[03:22:14] It's like another scenario unfolding where clearly these guys are looking to come and cut all your heads off
[03:22:19] Which is a real rare sharing thing and
[03:22:22] Here we get you guys are going back and forth going out going out to the perimeter like assessing
[03:22:27] Make sure you guys are doing a good job and then you're coming back into the middle kind of debriefing each other on what's happening with with the
[03:22:34] Fire team leaders or the or actually that I guess the squad leaders and you're doing that a couple times and then finally it gets to a point
[03:22:39] Just as our leaders return to the middle of the perimeter the enemy commander made his move
[03:22:43] Hall whose rig was on the eastern side of the perimeter said calmly sir their Russian us coming out
[03:22:48] You're coming out our hill now the two enemy forces struck the northeast and southeast parts of our perimeter in one palmel charge
[03:22:56] This time they did not bound as on June 10th instead they ran straight for us
[03:23:00] We picked out a leader and sniped him in the midstroke in midstrad he went down with a wound to the shoulder in a flash to
[03:23:07] Insurgents grab their fallen comrades and whisked him to the rear their casualty of
[03:23:10] Accuation was stunningly fast. I'm thinking when I was reading this I was thinking oh these guys aren't as good as the guys you killed by
[03:23:17] I weren't you killed the good. Yes, yes, and now they had inexperienced guys that were just
[03:23:22] But you're one of the few people that has ever picked that up in the book. Yes, we killed so many of them and
[03:23:28] Little we were getting intel around this time that the Pakistani Taliban tribes in Pakistan
[03:23:33] They were no no longer willing to commit their sons to the fight in our area of operations because we were just killing them and stacking bodies
[03:23:39] So high they couldn't keep up and they didn't want to commit their sons to a losing fight
[03:23:43] We were killing all the good ones and now we reached a point in time and our deployment where
[03:23:48] We were starting to know the terrain better than the enemy we'd been there and operated there longer and this is what you're seeing in this chapter
[03:23:55] Yeah, and I'm just thinking to myself you think about our view of terrain over time
[03:24:01] We're looking at maps. We're seeing an imagery one meter imagery
[03:24:05] We're plotting points on it. I mean and you're out there every day. Yeah, you're gonna have good terrain knowledge after
[03:24:12] Hello, many eight months you've been there at this point. We did they couldn't hide from us they couldn't hide from us and we would we would we would roll up on them
[03:24:19] And disrupt their operations just and just surprise them, you know
[03:24:24] So whereas early on in the deployment we were the ones getting ambushed now
[03:24:27] We were the ones rolling up in the middle of them trying to lay an ambush and we were laying waste of them while they did it
[03:24:32] Back to the book right then the first 105 shells exploded in their midst
[03:24:36] We'd called for fire dangerously close Captain die who's the operation center who's at the operation center in Burmel
[03:24:41] Had made sure we had ample support again the gunners back on base had poured it on mixing high explosive shells with white phosphorus the dreaded willy
[03:24:49] Pete the gunners called this deadly mixture
[03:24:53] Shaken bake the high explosive shook the ground in the willy peak cooked anything it touched
[03:24:58] a curtain of fire and steel street with tendrils of white phosphorus erupted behind the enemies main line of advance
[03:25:05] We pinned them against us it we pinned them against us if they tried to break contact
[03:25:09] They would be massacred by artillery fire if they stayed in place they'd be mode down by our men if they tried to close
[03:25:15] We'd mowed them down faster desperate now the trapped insurgents bolted for us
[03:25:19] They're wounded and dying carpeting the hillside in their wake
[03:25:23] There was a confidence in the men we'd lacked on June 10th
[03:25:26] We'd seen this drill before with a more talented enemy force and the men reacted with ruthless violence
[03:25:32] No shouting this time no euphoric moments or episodes of near despair our emotions remained even keeled cold
[03:25:39] But laced with controlled rage that had been bottled up inside us for weeks
[03:25:43] We unleashed it all in a merciless torrent the enemy close to 25 meters
[03:25:48] We could see those wicked eight inch knives dangling from their belts in sight
[03:25:54] Inside oh the sight infuriated us the men fired and reloaded with a complex speed the artillery rain grew
[03:26:02] Ever more intense over the radio captain died reported that he dispatch second-pultune as our quick reaction force
[03:26:08] 20 minutes later the NCO's return to the middle of the perimeter a low had descended on the battlefield as the enemies
[03:26:15] Lead waves had been killed almost to the last man
[03:26:19] One at a time our squad leaders reported the situation to be well-in-hand
[03:26:23] Hall triumphantly announced where fucking wasting them sir. Yeah, Campbell echoed the men are slaughtering them
[03:26:29] Behind us the moon roes over the endless ridges of the Hindu Kush
[03:26:33] Brightening the battlefield with a silvery glow their coming against her you know what to do the huddle broke and
[03:26:40] Back into the action they went the slaughter continued unabated for almost three hours
[03:26:46] We killed so many of them that their casualties evacuation plan collapsed
[03:26:49] They simply didn't have the man power to left to pull their men out torn bodies late
[03:26:54] Uncollected on the hillside bits of white phosphorus embedded within them
[03:26:58] Their fat sizzled in pop for hours until the metallic stench of the Willie Pete blended with the sticky odor of burn flesh
[03:27:06] Hell's barbecue
[03:27:09] Second-pultune arrived
[03:27:10] Burley all over the top energy his voice echoed over the hill top as he belled orders at his men
[03:27:16] Greece and jumped out of this one of second-pultunes trucks and on the and on bow legs sonned over to us
[03:27:22] Hacer he said sounded like sling blade
[03:27:24] Look at you acting all John Wayne out here without me
[03:27:28] Where the hell have you been I asked it had taken 45 minutes to get this to this abandoned village after leaving Burmel
[03:27:34] It had taken burley and our quick reaction force three and a half hours to go the same distance
[03:27:40] Greece and later told me that Burley had called a possible roadside bomb a few kilometers away from our fight
[03:27:45] He had ordered the platoon to stop they sat parked on the road out of the fight
[03:27:49] Greece and grew grew increasingly frustrated he saw no evidence of a roadside bomb and nothing was being done to investigate or clear anything in the road
[03:27:57] But since he was only a passenger he could not do anything about it as soon as the assaults against us as ended
[03:28:03] He'd ended
[03:28:04] Burley declared the road ahead clear and the platoon had continued on its way
[03:28:10] Not the kind of support you're looking for no
[03:28:12] No, you know, and that's you know not everybody that that puts on the uniformers beyond reproach we all make mistakes and you know
[03:28:23] That initial ambush that second platoon got caught in to set the tone for that platoon not the men the men
[03:28:31] They wanted they wanted to do the job and do the job well, but
[03:28:35] For the leadership it set the tone for the leadership and then the culture of that platoon to where they want to do a void contact
[03:28:41] At all costs, you know, they were playing the long game and so far as
[03:28:46] You know
[03:28:47] They didn't want to be in the fight because they didn't want to take the risk of losing or having guys who did hurt killed and I get that I do and you know
[03:28:55] In this in this particular
[03:28:57] And one of the for example one of the leaders of that platoon had a wife that was pregnant and he you know
[03:29:01] He wanted to go home and I get that but that is not unlike the situation of every single one of my soldiers who were out there bleeding on the line need help
[03:29:09] In this particular instance, we had it well in hand, but
[03:29:13] The fact of the matter is when you call for a QRF it's a no bullshit like we need you as fast as humanly possible now there is
[03:29:20] Me god, I mean how many happened? Yeah how many times is a QRF hit with an ID because they the enemy knows that's our battle dry
[03:29:26] I do get that and it's nighttime
[03:29:28] But Greece and was on the ground with him and he said that it took a long time to over three out three and a half hours to get to us on the battlefield that night
[03:29:36] And and really that drove a rift between our platoons it really did and
[03:29:44] I think that the
[03:29:46] I think that the what we learned that day is that like we really have to rely on
[03:29:52] We really can only count on ourselves
[03:29:54] You know
[03:29:56] We we operated with Delta Delta Platoon out there
[03:29:59] They always had our backs
[03:30:01] Seconds who did as well, I mean I don't want to I don't want to say that they they they didn't do the job but the leadership culture was different
[03:30:06] It was a different culture
[03:30:11] You're now back on base and
[03:30:15] It's actually it's actually time for you to go on leave and so here you go back to the book the next day
[03:30:20] Our once overweight forward observer Cole came to see me
[03:30:24] He'd been working out nonstop since arriving at Burmel several months before he dropped more than 20 pounds
[03:30:30] Looked lean and mean it was all set to go out and patrol with us the first sergeant cleared him to roll beyond the wire and he was eager to rejoin and
[03:30:36] Some be part of our band again a few more days in the gym a couple more
[03:30:40] After that for final preparations and he transitioned back to us and the meantime
[03:30:44] He was still working with the aviation guys to schedule seats on available helicopters
[03:30:48] Sir, we have a bird coming in an hour aren't you supposed to go on leave?
[03:30:51] Do you want to slot Cole is wearing ridiculous yellow sneakers through my exhaustion? I gaped at them
[03:30:58] Yeah, Cole that'd be great, but what the hell?
[03:31:00] I said pointing at issues he grinned their cool Cole they look like big bird shoes
[03:31:05] They make me run like the wind sir run like the wind I had no time to shower barely get time to unpack
[03:31:10] I've threw a few things into a bag. I changed my uniform later
[03:31:14] Cole checked back with me about a half an hour later. Sir the flight's full, but I'm gonna get you on it. Don't worry
[03:31:19] He told me to get out to the landing zone and wait for the helicopter
[03:31:22] I said I hasty good bond in the cartoon. I had no time to do anything else and made my way to the pad
[03:31:28] The abrupt farewell even if it was temporary felt jagged and raw truth was as much as I wanted to see my family back home
[03:31:34] I
[03:31:36] Didn't want to leave the one I had here
[03:31:40] So the helicopters coming cold dashed up to me in a moment after they touched down got a spot for you sir
[03:31:45] You know, I always take area. I was profoundly grateful. Yeah, Cole you sure do
[03:31:49] I'll see when I get back he smiled and waved can't wait to be out there with you sir
[03:31:53] I shook his hand and thank him for all he'd done for us. He he seemed embarrassed
[03:31:57] He hated to have attention drawn to himself and felt most comfortable working in the background taking care of the
[03:32:03] Poutine anyway he could
[03:32:05] So you take off the first stop as in as a dog room you get there and of course
[03:32:12] You're walking around and you get this lieutenant
[03:32:15] A US Army major demanded he stood staring at me hands on hips a look of disgust on his face
[03:32:22] His ACUs were so clean and well fitting that I assumed they had been tailored and pressed
[03:32:27] He wore no combat badges no sign that he was a ranger or even infantry
[03:32:31] He had never I'd never noticed that sort of thing until that moment
[03:32:34] I wonder if he was going to be salsa dancing tonight
[03:32:38] Yes, sir. I asked where do I clean yourself up your uniforms of disgrace?
[03:32:45] His worn mine were his war and mine were so different that there was no way for our worlds to meet
[03:32:50] I didn't even have the energy to try
[03:32:56] Good times I now so good back in Boggrem. I mean they had salsa dancing night. Oh, yeah, that's I mean
[03:33:02] You go on Boggrem. I mean like those I mean again
[03:33:04] This is the divide between war fighters and in the rear, you know, it's like you get back and like I
[03:33:12] I remember I didn't have time to change. I still got blood on my FLC and on my body armor
[03:33:16] And one of my squad leaders have been shot in the ankle. I'm rushing to get on these ring routes because they only come out to these outlying fobs
[03:33:21] So often, you know
[03:33:22] You gotta get on the bird when it shows up or you might not get another one for a month
[03:33:27] My whole family's expecting me to be home so I rush I get off the bird first thing that I see is this major right on steel beach
[03:33:33] And I'm like I see this guy. I just he's got like this eye for me and I'm like God damn
[03:33:37] I'm like trying to like not look at him and he like makes a beeline right for me and the first thing he says is
[03:33:42] You know your uniform is a disgrace you gotta get you gotta get your ass cleaned up. I know
[03:33:47] I know that you know you're probably out there
[03:33:49] He gave me the one. I know you're probably I'm like sorry. I just I mean like thinking of myself like sorry
[03:33:53] Just got off a goddamn bird like Jesus like and then of course
[03:33:57] He's like you don't want to be about taking the magazine out on my weapon like because you're not supposed to have a magazine on your weapon
[03:34:01] A biogram you're supposed to wear a road guard belt everywhere you go. I mean it there are more regulations in biogram air force base
[03:34:07] And Afghanistan there are in Fort Drum or any military base hack back here in the States
[03:34:11] And so I mean it was just like I
[03:34:15] So like I got prison strong when I was in Afghanistan
[03:34:18] When we were on on operations all we did was lift on our gym, you know and our and it was like it was
[03:34:23] Get over to work. We made a work. It was great, you know and so we get back to biogram though, man, and it's like
[03:34:27] It's like amazing, you know, there there are I'm like walking down on my covered dirt fell with blood and muck
[03:34:33] I take a warm showers much hot waters just want they got these like sauna like wood panels
[03:34:39] I'm walking on I'm like this is great. I'm in there on you know in the bathroom there are actual toilets
[03:34:43] We would we would go and like the first experience that I had like go to the bathroom and I've gandestin after
[03:34:49] MREs I'm like you're sitting on this little concrete square right with little toilets here over and all of a sudden
[03:34:54] I just hear this like
[03:34:56] Like and I look down and I see these two hands man pulling this big pot of shit out from my
[03:35:01] I'm like oh my god Jesus like that was my first experience on back in Baga. I mean this is place like a medical spot like a spa
[03:35:08] I'm walking these gym there are world-class gyms at least three of them on Baga me and seriously with all this hardcore awesome
[03:35:14] Way to equipment. I mean
[03:35:15] Series like pack decks cable cry. I mean everything you could possibly imagine there's water coolers in every corner
[03:35:20] There's green bean coffee. There's burger king. There's salsa night. There's movie night. I'm like
[03:35:25] People that come to Baga. I'm should pay the military to go to Baga. I'm this place is awesome
[03:35:31] I just want to take my family here on vacation. It's so nice. I mean it really was nice and I'm just thinking like
[03:35:38] People that are like they're infantry staff members or staff officers
[03:35:42] They go to this depot. They make the same amount of combat pain that I do. Yeah. It's a totally different deployment
[03:35:47] It's it's
[03:35:48] Worlds
[03:35:49] It is it's a universes and I'm sorry like you know it
[03:35:52] So I write about the resentment right that we felt at the time
[03:35:57] I know it's not mature. I know it's not nuance and complex. It probably not right right
[03:36:02] But I only wrote it that way not because just because I have I felt in the moment all right
[03:36:07] I look back and I'm so thankful for all those guys now
[03:36:09] But the truth of the matter was is you get highly pissed this dudes making the same as I am and I got shot in the chest last
[03:36:16] Leak in my body arbor you know
[03:36:17] I mean there's a there's a qualitative difference in experience
[03:36:20] That the military does not recognize with pay and that pissed me off just upset me you see
[03:36:27] This deployment went down 2006 you said you started writing this in 2008. Yes luckily for me
[03:36:33] Lafen I didn't start writing extreme ownership until like 2014
[03:36:39] So we had enough time to like get over it
[03:36:42] One about friends
[03:36:44] I'm still like yeah, you know, I'm still like all fire blood on your boots
[03:36:49] I'm gonna give me a copy of an email that I had sent while I was in
[03:36:57] Ramadi to my Commodore who was a friend of mine who I had a great relationship with
[03:37:03] But I could believe that I wrote it
[03:37:05] I mean it was one of those is like I literally didn't care like hey, you know
[03:37:10] It was like a he had sent out an email and I sent he'd sent out like kind of a group wide email to all the officers
[03:37:15] You know asking for some feedback
[03:37:17] And I gave it to me and I I was a straight shooter, you know everyone knew as a straight shooter
[03:37:21] And like I said I had a great relationship with him, but like this guy told me the email that I sent
[03:37:26] I was like wow, you know, it started off with something along the line because you know
[03:37:31] He it was questioning hey how can we get more seals and like my opening line was we don't need more seals
[03:37:36] We need to better seals and tougher seals. I like that was my opening line. I was like okay
[03:37:41] That's a shock opening line. That's it everything I expected to say. Yeah, but I you know
[03:37:46] Probably not I wouldn't have addressed it the same way if you took me out of Ramadi like and and I was
[03:37:54] Sitting in a when you say a salsa night dance
[03:37:57] Would have been probably a little bit. Okay, here's some ways we could think about recruiting you know
[03:38:01] Wouldn't have been just come to a surprise of course
[03:38:04] So yeah, you you wrote this book you said you started right in 2008
[03:38:08] Yeah, actually started the writing process in 2007
[03:38:11] Like a back in summer to fresh you're surprisingly gentle then I mean I really wanted it to be a warts and all
[03:38:18] Story like my failures, but I mean look I got a piece of advice from John my co-author on this book and he said look
[03:38:25] This country is a wash of World War II memoirs written by generals that feel making feel like the war was just a chessboard
[03:38:31] Like I'm gonna over this unit here and we did this and the truth of the matter is you can we cannot write a book like that
[03:38:37] It has to be a warts and all blood and got type story and so that's what we set out to do yeah
[03:38:42] Well those are the kind of books that we don't cover on this podcast books by
[03:38:46] By the rear echelon like we literally I don't think I've covered I mean I covered patterns because patterns and I've covered some other senior generals
[03:38:54] From older times when you don't have any first person accounts from private's because a lot of times the private's weren't educated enough to write a book
[03:39:00] Right a few that are out there that I've definitely we've definitely nailed some of those
[03:39:04] we've got
[03:39:06] The Napoleonic foot soldier. Oh, yeah, that's a foot soldier. So yes, that's what this book comes across like you get you get it right
[03:39:15] So now you're on leave by the way, which people may not understand leave is absolutely mandatory
[03:39:20] When you're on a one year deployment the army. That's right. Yeah, you can't get out of it rest and relaxation leave
[03:39:25] there was a I didn't I didn't know that and the
[03:39:29] Commander of the first the 506 who was the best guy
[03:39:33] The like one of just the best combat leaders ever leaders period
[03:39:38] For one five of six. Yeah, first the five of six in Ramadi just told just an awesome guy and
[03:39:45] I didn't know that it was mandatory, but also he was on leave and I was kind of like well, that's that's kind of a
[03:39:52] That's kind of a let down
[03:39:53] You know I thought to myself what I can't believe he took leave because in the sealed teams
[03:39:56] We don't do that because we aren't short much shorter opponents anyways then someone's like oh, yeah, he's on leave
[03:40:00] That's interesting. I didn't think about that. Yeah, we are the ones who are for you too our deployments are generally
[03:40:06] Six seven months so we're not going on 14 60 month deployments like they do in the army and the Marine Corps is the same way the Marine Corps goes on like
[03:40:13] Six seven month deployments. You know, that's kind of they don't get as you they don't get mid-tore leave
[03:40:17] They don't get like only going for six months, bro. I mean you don't there's no forward it
[03:40:20] I mean I didn't have very really thought about this. Yeah. I guess if you're only gone six months
[03:40:24] Do you you don't get anything nothing?
[03:40:26] No, no, I don't know would be better
[03:40:28] I think a six month deployment with no leave would be better than a 16 month deployment with two weeks in the middle
[03:40:33] I would say that that's rough and even reading your your thing like there's no way I would have wanted to go on leave
[03:40:39] It would didn't I would have driven me crazy from an infinite number of ways, but just I don't want to taste like I don't want to taste
[03:40:50] Chocolate chip cookies. I know if they're not going to be like if I'm not going to have at least the whole chocolate chip cookie
[03:40:56] Yeah, I don't want to taste it. I don't want to just give me an mary
[03:41:00] I'll keep eating that. I don't want to know this other thing tastes like yeah, leave me in the suck
[03:41:03] I know don't don't take me out of the suck and expect me to want to go back to the suck
[03:41:06] So it was one of the hardest things ever. Yeah, I mean you're right about that. I can't even you know what they do in in
[03:41:11] Basic seal training
[03:41:13] We're going through this thing called hell week, which is like five days where you're up the whole time
[03:41:17] And it's called and wet miss more at some point during that they go okay guys
[03:41:21] You know what we've pushed you guys too hard and
[03:41:23] And the the captain he says you know we need to we need to get you guys arrested
[03:41:29] So it's our fault look go change in a dry uniforms and we're gonna put you guys to bed
[03:41:34] You guys are gonna get six hours because we've we shouldn't have done this we shouldn't have pushed you guys like this and you're like whoa
[03:41:38] Okay, cool
[03:41:39] So you get dry clothes and then they put you in bed and this is one of the times where you get to sleep
[03:41:45] But you're you don't go to sleep for how for six hours you're gonna sleep for about 15 minutes and then they come in and they're lying
[03:41:50] They're just but what's interesting is what's interesting is
[03:41:54] So many people quit right then because you're cold wet miserable for like a day and a half
[03:41:59] Maybe two days then they tell you okay sorry that was that was a mistake
[03:42:04] We need to give you guys a rest they get you dry they get you warm they get you sleeping
[03:42:09] Only so they can wake you up and put you right back in the cold water and so many people quit right then God
[03:42:14] Man, this is a fascinating parallel because it is because
[03:42:17] I mean you're you're speaking to some deep fundamental truth of the human condition
[03:42:23] Yet leave his mandatory for army and I have to tell you man
[03:42:27] I didn't want to leave it was it was terrible right?
[03:42:32] I went home I could there was restory laxation like what right yeah like you there's no relaxing at all
[03:42:39] And then going back though was the hardest thing it was so hard right?
[03:42:45] It was just so challenging so there is something to that. Oh, yeah, yeah, and it's you know what's amazing the suck
[03:42:51] Yeah, there would do it. Yes, exactly stay in the suck keep me in the suck
[03:42:55] And you know what's amazing though is it with there was there was not more A walls yeah that is shocking
[03:43:00] I mean for real that is shocking well I guess it's partly because we have an all volunteer force
[03:43:04] Yeah, and people know what they're doing I think that is I think that is a major component of it
[03:43:08] If it was a all-draft force
[03:43:10] The A1 number would be significantly higher. I think oh no though man I talked to the leaders that I talked to you from the Vietnam more the
[03:43:17] Drafties were awesome unless you were crappy leader and then they were horrible and guess what everyone that worked for you is horrible. Yes, I talked
[03:43:23] Yeah, interesting
[03:43:26] So you are in ocean city Maryland. Yes
[03:43:29] That's where my family's gone for the vacation
[03:43:33] So this is just hitting every every damn sentimental
[03:43:37] Thought that you have is all getting hit I went back to the book here
[03:43:42] What go ahead? No, yes, you're back
[03:43:44] You're hitting the nail on the head man. Yeah, everything that I've experienced my entire childhood
[03:43:49] Coupled with this shame and guilt of leaving my troops. It was just how all is horrible
[03:43:56] Oh, and I had to try to pretend like it was oh
[03:43:58] That's a thing like your family like no
[03:44:00] Yeah, many go for fun. Which it is you know because I always win but it wasn't fun when I was on leave you know
[03:44:05] I rose from the bed and went to the open window my family had rented a place on Maryland sure an honor of my temporary homecon
[03:44:12] Mean we'd be there for a week then I would return to the war the saltier smelled divine I closed my eyes and filled my lungs with each
[03:44:18] Exail I tried to purge my mind to the foul odors. I had stowed away with every
[03:44:22] Afghan breath
[03:44:24] Burned flesh white phosphorus and steaming bodies rent the sunder
[03:44:28] filth sewage mold and decay and
[03:44:32] Then you go on but at the same time I felt disconnected unplugged
[03:44:37] from my high-vid Burma
[03:44:39] Burma now all my instincts telegraphed that something had gone terribly wrong and I wasn't there to help out
[03:44:48] Somewhere on the far side of the planet. I imagine the platoon cleaning weapons and getting ready for child
[03:44:53] I loved being home
[03:44:56] I hated being home
[03:44:58] My folks appeared in the kitchen and my grandmother wished them good morning and went back to watching fox news
[03:45:03] Savoring every bite of my home cooked breakfast
[03:45:07] The little things matter the most after combat the news anchor began talking about two fox reporters who'd been kidnapped at gunpoint the day before in Gaza
[03:45:17] Then the news ticker at the bottom of the screen caught my attention
[03:45:21] American soldier killed by enemy mines strike and eastern Afghanistan
[03:45:28] The wires inside my head were screaming now. I stared at the screen and listed all the reasons why this couldn't have happened to anyone
[03:45:33] I knew the outlaws were tiny unit just a poll tuned there were thousands of U.S. troops fighting in eastern Afghanistan
[03:45:39] the chances that was one of my men were astronomically small
[03:45:43] Then you obviously run get your laptop
[03:45:50] I sat down and started my laptop as soon as I logged into Yahoo instant messenger a conversation box popped up it was rally
[03:45:58] Hacer rally everything okay
[03:46:01] Actually no what's wrong?
[03:46:04] I received no immediate reply
[03:46:07] I waited in dreadful suspense
[03:46:09] And then finally
[03:46:13] Cole is dead
[03:46:20] Rally sent a file the download took forever
[03:46:23] When it finally finished I opened it up and saw a photograph of one of our home v's blown to broken junk
[03:46:35] I had a
[03:46:37] I had a dream that day
[03:46:41] Yeah, I don't know if you all believe in this sort of thing but I had a dream that day that something was wrong
[03:46:46] And I've gassed in I just I could not sleep it plagued me all night
[03:46:50] Was there a dream about being overrun all this other stuff?
[03:46:53] It's just hard sometimes to get centered when you come back from combat especially on our and you know you're going back
[03:47:00] But just something in me
[03:47:03] Was screaming as something isn't right something's not right?
[03:47:06] I don't and I sort of just wrote it office like hey, you know you just don't want to be here
[03:47:10] You want to be back with the guys like just sort of try let it go try to let your guard down right try to relax
[03:47:15] But I couldn't let it go
[03:47:16] I remember waking up that morning having pancakes my mom makes amazing pancakes
[03:47:21] That's like our thing would go on vacation right?
[03:47:23] So I'm just like crushing some pancakes or whatever
[03:47:26] And I'm like watching Fox news and I still could not shake this feeling
[03:47:30] Something was wrong and I see that ticker and
[03:47:33] Immediately I knew and knew it was my birthday
[03:47:37] 100% just knew it in my heart of hearts and I run over
[03:47:41] I mean this is back in 2006 where Wi-Fi wasn't everywhere you know what I mean like I had to go find a place that I'd Wi-Fi some coffee shop across the street
[03:47:48] I got my like my laptop
[03:47:51] I sprint across the street to get there hook up find out that I lost one of my soldiers in my only two weeks my two weeks that I was gone
[03:47:58] Was just one of the most devastating experiences in my life because
[03:48:01] It by this time I realized that you know sending I'd seen the toll that the email is taking on my dad first hand now
[03:48:09] Like he didn't talk about it. He didn't complain to me about it, but I saw it. You know I could feel it and so
[03:48:16] By this time in the deployment I just I just sucked it up
[03:48:20] You know I found out that they called I had to keep it a secret for the rest of the time
[03:48:24] You know and my my I think my family knew something was wrong
[03:48:27] They didn't really ask me any questions about it
[03:48:29] But like we were going many golf and having family dinners walking on the board walk or I just had to just not say or about it. It was just
[03:48:37] It was just the hardest thing in the world man and Cole was just such a great guy like had a new born baby before we deployed
[03:48:44] The reason why he gained all that weight is it was simply he was gained all the weight because he was
[03:48:48] Came simply simply way during the pregnancy and he couldn't shake he couldn't lose it and so
[03:48:54] He got to stay back see the birth of his kid. I remember her bedtime commander said yeah
[03:48:57] We're gonna let you stay back. You know take care of your family
[03:49:00] Have this baby because when you come to Afghanistan we need you 100% focus on the mission
[03:49:05] So thank god he got to stay back and and watch his baby be born and come back. I've got to the base over weight
[03:49:11] He couldn't really like going patrol with us because he was overweight
[03:49:14] But he took it and stride he didn't get the jacked
[03:49:16] He looked for other ways to help you know like we'd get back from base
[03:49:20] He'd run over the trucks start grabbing throw and MREs in if we needed a marries
[03:49:23] He looked for a way to be functional man and the soon just a door to him
[03:49:26] And finally ends up in the gym losing all this weight gets these stupid big bird shoes think of makes him run fast and stuff
[03:49:32] They didn't use this a character man. It's really funny
[03:49:35] Finally loses all the weight and you know I left on leave like something like August 12th his first patrol was August 15th
[03:49:42] He was killed August 16th
[03:49:45] Yeah, it was just and I I to this day it's just the worst it's just I missed his funeral
[03:49:51] I missed his I missed the you know
[03:49:54] That's the salute the funeral the moral service the bagpipes the you know
[03:50:01] His casket being flown from a Mal back to Bogram. It was just it was just the words. It was just the worst experience
[03:50:05] You know just to not be there
[03:50:08] You know as a leader like
[03:50:09] You know you always want to make sure that you're there
[03:50:11] You know where the contact is heaviest right that's my you know on the battlefield where the contact is heaviest
[03:50:16] But it's not sometimes it's not just enemy contact sometimes it's emotional and psychological contact as well
[03:50:21] The leader has to be there has to be it cannot be a detached must be involved and
[03:50:26] This was one of those moments for me and I'm like I was screaming inside and like God damn it
[03:50:31] This is one of my but two needs me the most I need to be there for them
[03:50:35] I need to be subt struggling through this with them and I I totally missed the entire thing by that time
[03:50:39] I got back to the base
[03:50:41] Cole on the base. I mean never be forgotten. He's his his name was just
[03:50:45] Been painted on our walls just one of the fallen that we had lost under the appointment and it just killed me inside not to be able to be a part of it
[03:50:53] You know and it would end up being my truck you know
[03:50:56] My truck that was a tag. I mean there's a whole story behind it
[03:50:59] Which is sure we're gonna get into but it ended up being my truck that was a tag was a targeted tag at the command vehicle
[03:51:03] So it's just
[03:51:05] It's just sucked what I was out there that was that was that was your truck in the line of March that got hit
[03:51:11] Yeah, and that's what he was in what position was he in in the vehicle
[03:51:14] He would he was sitting behind the driver so
[03:51:18] When I was on leave Greece and took over the truck commander position for the command truck
[03:51:22] Which is this you know typically in a convoy the way that we did it is I was right behind the point man in the truck so
[03:51:29] Would you be in the lead truck? I wouldn't be in the lead truck. I'd be in the truck right behind the truck
[03:51:34] So Chris telling us yeah, so I was sitting in a TC spot directly next to the driver calls
[03:51:39] I was sitting behind the driver Chris Brown was my gunner and I have a pinholder router in the truck behind me
[03:51:46] So I was only a Christmas in that truck full full in that roll, but it was that truck that was hit
[03:51:51] It was a targeted attack
[03:52:01] So you get back
[03:52:03] Um
[03:52:06] Your back in Burmel hey sir, I need to talk to you. Greece and said to me as I entered our hooch his room is across the hall for mine
[03:52:12] He was supposed to get evacuated back to Bogram so his head wound could be treated
[03:52:18] Instead he refused to leave the men and continue to lead them after the age station at Fox
[03:52:23] Or later, no had patched him up as best they could and those were wounds that he got from that same idea
[03:52:27] Yeah, he got he it's it's I think this is a second or third purple heart on this deployment we just come back
[03:52:35] From my first patrol since I had returned from leave
[03:52:40] Sir what I'm about to tell you cannot be mentioned to anyone
[03:52:44] His preface caught me off guard okay, I said cautiously. It's about one of our interpreters
[03:52:49] He had my attention now quietly he began to talk unbeknownst to us some top secret national level assets
[03:52:55] had been tracking unusual communications coming from our area over the past several months
[03:52:59] They had narrowed those transmissions down to Fobramel
[03:53:03] Somebody on post had been using our sat phones to contact an Iranian bomb making cell operating out of a
[03:53:09] Madrasa just over the Pakistani border
[03:53:13] We had an enemy mole in our midst
[03:53:16] You see if fell under suspicion he'd been observed asking questions he should have been asking
[03:53:21] He had often wanted to know where we were going before we left the wire something that had annoyed us throughout the deployment
[03:53:28] A quiet investigation it revealed that he was the only local national on base who could have had knowledge of the
[03:53:33] Platoon's deterdestination plus grease and a caught him talking on a phone
[03:53:37] Introducing himself with a different name to whoever was on the other end of the connection when grease and said
[03:53:42] Hey, I thought your name was you Seth our head-terpe offered a wide suspicious grin and replied
[03:53:48] That's just my stage name
[03:53:50] grease and finish the story
[03:53:52] Captain die is going to take him to Oregon, E as I said Oregon a yeah, Oregon E later today to arrest him
[03:53:57] Nobody can know about this we can't risk spooky spooking you Seth and causing him to bolt
[03:54:02] I want to go to Oregon E I said in a fortified furious voice
[03:54:06] Greasing growled the fuck no sir your way too close to this so am I let Captain die handle this
[03:54:12] He was right as the new sink in my own responsibility in this disaster became apparent
[03:54:16] I had become complacent with the cozy nature of you Seth's relationships with the men
[03:54:22] He'd been too close to them for many months and every time I'd seen him around the barracks hanging out with them
[03:54:27] It had rankled me grease and a noted it too urging me to put it put a stop to it and although I had mentioned it to the
[03:54:33] Patoon impassing I'd not done so with any conviction
[03:54:38] When it continued I should have put my foot down hard and ended it fratinization with a local national no matter how much you is trusted
[03:54:45] Was an operational security breach plain and simple
[03:54:49] Even more damning was as use of satellite phones that never should have happened
[03:54:53] Though we had told him he couldn't use them. He still had access to soldiers who worked in the operation center and he could get his hands on the phones whenever he wanted
[03:55:02] It had always seemed like a minor problem and my plate had been so full with that dealing with you
[03:55:07] Seth's behavior it ended up on the bottom of my priority list
[03:55:10] I'd never gotten around to dealing with it and now
[03:55:13] What grease and told me revealed the consequences of that failure it had gotten cold killed
[03:55:20] No, I had gotten cold killed this was not on the men this was non-greason
[03:55:27] This was my cross to bear
[03:55:31] I don't remember much of the morning after that. I know I went to my room to change out my filthy uniform
[03:55:36] I know I felt my strength failing me as I faced the totality of my guilt another part of me slipped away
[03:55:43] And died I hadn't didn't even have the will to fight for at this time
[03:55:48] The war had sucked me dry
[03:55:55] So this
[03:55:57] Judas in the purest sense of the word Judas yourself had had betrayed everyone honestly
[03:56:05] um, they knew in my mind I was wondering okay I wonder how like how they knew
[03:56:12] Like okay they got some very good evidence
[03:56:15] But even in the back of my mind I was thinking still like you're gonna
[03:56:18] You're gonna go you how do you really know and then I read this later that day cap and die assembled a patrol from
[03:56:24] Part of my platoon and part of the headquarters element
[03:56:27] You said what's assigned to be the turf he suspected nothing and climbed on board one of the humbese at Oregon E
[03:56:32] He was confronted with the evidence against him at first even night everything
[03:56:36] But when the sat phone was mentioned he laughingly confessed yes, yes, you got me I did it
[03:56:44] Is attitude earned him a face plan on the hood of the humbese our men zip cuffed him and pulled him into the battalion detention center later that night
[03:56:50] He was phone phoned a bagram in any other time in the hands of any other army
[03:56:56] You said body would never have been found
[03:56:59] He'd have been dispatched and dumped his corpse left
[03:57:01] For scavengers nobody would have known or cured that an enemy spy had vanished
[03:57:07] vanished
[03:57:09] Discipline was the only thing that saved his life
[03:57:11] Instead of a bullet to the brain he faced due process and a prison cell
[03:57:16] In the days ahead I wondered if that was a weakness or a strength
[03:57:19] There's a certain elegance to outlaw justice besides the enemy would have afforded us no mercy had the roles been reversed
[03:57:32] And then later you find out that
[03:57:35] He actually
[03:57:37] Also was the one that got Abdul Kil. Yes, he he was responsible for the assassination of Abdul
[03:57:44] Bating him outside the wire had a hand in the night letters just so he could have sent into the head
[03:57:48] Turb and ingratiate himself to
[03:57:51] The sensitivity of some of our mission sense it mentioned sensitive intelligence and so this is this this is a hundred percent on me
[03:58:00] Hundred percent I mean
[03:58:02] Throughout the course of the deployment like we get there even myself or like oh my gosh
[03:58:07] This is a totally different culture look we're having fun. We're having tea together. We're friends we're out there serving together. You know
[03:58:13] After a while these turps would show up for our convoy briefs and they'd listen to an increasing bill like
[03:58:17] Hey, they can't be having these guys listen to our convoy briefs and I'd say okay. I talked to the squad
[03:58:21] They just were about it but again no conviction
[03:58:24] You know we'd have interpreters for a while sitting in my truck and the command truck to listen
[03:58:28] So I could react in real time to the I-com chatter
[03:58:31] We were like you can see we'd listen to the enemy and I'd hear about it. I'd call one fire
[03:58:34] But he was also hearing sensitive combo coming back from me on the taxat and stuff like that
[03:58:40] Greece was like you can't do that you can't do that
[03:58:42] So we moved into a different truck but again I never addressed this issue with any real conviction and
[03:58:49] And because of that
[03:58:51] He coordinate with this Iranian ID cell
[03:58:55] They he knew exactly where we were going what O. P. were setting on the ID eight digit grid
[03:59:00] He knew where my truck would be that provided the greatest
[03:59:04] It was just the best position for the command truck to be we'd been at this location before so we'd know
[03:59:08] So he seated the area with a couple of different plastic Italian TC6 anti tank mines
[03:59:15] So even we had these metal detectors for that purpose to detect mines
[03:59:20] There was more metal in a pack of cigarettes in a reason this mine and
[03:59:24] my truck with coal in it rolled over that mine
[03:59:28] Totally destroyed it killed coal in an instant
[03:59:31] wounded dock pantoha for a second time wounded is grease him for the second or third time blue cult wall outside of the turret
[03:59:37] He was wounded in another time and it was just an absolute disaster and it was a hundred percent on my
[03:59:44] Failure to address this specific issue and failure to protect operational security around
[03:59:50] mission sensitive
[03:59:52] things and
[03:59:54] You know it it just God it just bothers me to this day
[03:59:59] You know because
[04:00:00] You know man regret is life's worst poison
[04:00:03] It just is it each it you have it each it you forever for the rest of your life you never want to look back in your life and
[04:00:08] Say the word should should is like one of my least favorite words in the English line was yes
[04:00:12] Sir, I sure I sure I should be able to do that note or can you do it or can you not do it because you can't do it
[04:00:17] I'm gonna find somebody else who can I hate the word should my kids say yeah, I should know
[04:00:21] I don't want to hear should yes or no I hate that word
[04:00:24] Well, it I also hated because I don't want to ever look back on my life and said and say
[04:00:29] God I should have done some I should have done this differently
[04:00:32] You know
[04:00:34] And I have to say that with regard to Cole I mean his death is on me no one else but me and
[04:00:40] His death
[04:00:42] Rest solely at my feet and I've got to live with that pain for the rest of my life
[04:00:45] Losing a soldier when I knew it could have been preventable that I'd you know I think I look back I look back on it and I think I just
[04:00:53] You know part of me just wanted to be liked by the guys you know what I mean
[04:00:56] Like they thought it was they thought it was cool to go sit and have tea with the interpreters and stuff and
[04:01:03] I just didn't want to you know I think that was it I think part of me just didn't want to make that hard decision
[04:01:07] I didn't want to take that away from him. I wanted to be cool. I wanted to be liked and
[04:01:12] Ultimately that's what that that right there is what got one of my soldier skills and something like I said
[04:01:17] I have to live with her rest of my life
[04:01:20] Every day I think of that every day I wish I could have done something different
[04:01:22] I
[04:01:25] talked about that on a recent podcast like this idea
[04:01:31] That and it's the same thing that you and I've been talking about because
[04:01:35] This idea of like I'm gonna be friends with people and which I clearly said and will freely say that I absolutely had friends
[04:01:43] In all every unit I was ever with I had real good friends up when I was a junior guy
[04:01:48] Guess what when I was a junior guy when I was the youngest guy in my petun I had great friends that were what we call khakis
[04:01:55] You know the good weather they were the chief for the assistant petun commander the petun commander like they were my real true friends like real legit friends
[04:02:03] And that was when I was really young so I I always had it there, but man the bleed over
[04:02:11] The mistake that people make where they where they say you know what and I know the feeling I know this uncomfortable feeling
[04:02:17] of
[04:02:20] You know
[04:02:21] The guys want to do this and I don't think it's the right thing to do, but I don't feel strongly enough about it that I'm actually gonna say anything and this to me
[04:02:29] Like I said I had a real advantage because I was older and I'd been in the teams for a long time
[04:02:36] You know, I had a lot of experience in the teams
[04:02:39] So it was easier for me as a junior officer to hold the line. I didn't always and I look back and I can tell you a thousand stories
[04:02:46] of times where I should have done something better than I did and I didn't and I should have and it was a mistake
[04:02:53] And I explained that to these young officers when I talk to the officers now I'm like you're the guy
[04:02:58] You're the one that has to make these hard decisions and you know what
[04:03:03] This is the part that's that's good
[04:03:06] For them to understand it's counterintuitive
[04:03:08] What's counterintuitive when you're in a leadership position and you actually say hey guys, we're not doing that you're afraid that they're not gonna like you
[04:03:18] You're afraid that they're not gonna respect you. They actually respect you more
[04:03:22] It's true. They actually respect you more like you know looking back now if you're to go and guys
[04:03:27] Hey listen this is Opsick we're not playing I'm not gonna have four nationals know our routes. It's not happening
[04:03:34] Everyone in that particular gun hey bosses on it. You know what I mean
[04:03:37] But we don't know that it's easy to look back on sites 2020 man. Hey, you're you're a hundred percent right
[04:03:46] hundred percent right you know and I think part of me it was just like you know
[04:03:52] You laid it out there perfectly like the guys really want to do this but I know this ain't the right thing
[04:03:58] And maybe 99% of the time if I don't say something
[04:04:03] It might be okay. It's no big deal. You know, but it's that one percent of the time
[04:04:07] Or if you don't say something in tragedy strikes and then you know
[04:04:11] I when I talk to young officers about it
[04:04:13] I'd say the exact same thing that you do the buck stops with you you are the guy
[04:04:18] Do not seek popularly or popularly for popularly sake
[04:04:23] You know be the leader be the strong leader that your men know need and deserve and that's the counter and two to part
[04:04:28] The counter and two to part is that if you
[04:04:31] Do if you hold the line the your respect actually goes up now. Can you go over water that? Yes, you absolutely can and everyone can hate you because you just and it happened
[04:04:39] It happens but yeah, but the other thing I think was playing against you in this situation is
[04:04:52] It kind of doesn't seem like that could really happen. You know what I mean like I look at some things that I experience in combat
[04:04:59] I'm like you know if somebody would have told me that that could actually happen
[04:05:04] I would have said it's like it's like you watch in a movie. You'll yeah, but that would never happen
[04:05:08] Right that could never actually happen and it seems like that's a situation where you're like listen
[04:05:13] What are the chances that of all the
[04:05:16] Thousands of people that could be assigned to us out here. We're gonna get this this
[04:05:21] Spy right a spy that's what's gonna happen that has access to Iranians like you can't
[04:05:27] Yeah, if you wrote a book about that you'd be like okay, that's a cool plot for a movie. I know
[04:05:31] But in our minds we're like hey, and that's why I
[04:05:34] Reach to point and I'll tell you I reach to point. I can't really talk about what happened
[04:05:39] But I had some intel that was
[04:05:42] Not the way it should be and I learned that lesson one time and
[04:05:47] From that point on I
[04:05:49] Never
[04:05:50] Douaded that these things could go the way they did and I and I all these little suspicions that I thought maybe
[04:05:56] And it happened to me luckily on my first deployment to Iraq was like okay, yeah, I dropped the ball on that one
[04:06:01] We got away with it. It'll never happen again. You know, so I think that's another thing that was playing against you is
[04:06:09] It seems kind of like far-fetched unrealistic
[04:06:12] You got James Bond. Well, it does you know Afghan James Bond and you're well, you know
[04:06:16] And the thing is is I think it's even more nuanced than that. I think he was he
[04:06:21] You know, maybe for a time he was a legit interpreter. You know worked with Americans for five years
[04:06:27] You know, and I think
[04:06:28] He just was unhappy with his pay and the enemy said they were gonna pay him more and the guy's trying to feed his family and these people are
[04:06:36] Perpetual fence-sitters like
[04:06:38] You know, it's the graveyard of empires. They're that sort of attitude is ingrained into the soul of every tribe in the country of Afghanistan and so
[04:06:47] I
[04:06:48] Think that he just flipped and his flipping
[04:06:53] Was more of a cultural thing and less of a lot. I mean, it was a loyalty thing to us right, but to him it's just like
[04:06:59] Business is usual that other peace plan against you. I yeah, I guess we don't do that
[04:07:03] I don't get yeah, we don't write you that I didn't it didn't even register with me
[04:07:08] Although it should have because
[04:07:10] You know, you have a dual telling me literally
[04:07:13] You know, you got to say I'll watch this guy. Keep an eye on this guy. It's guys all about the money
[04:07:16] You know, and again, I'm just thinking like well, I know a thousand guys like that that are all about the money. They're not gonna like
[04:07:22] Turn on you and then you look at the war since I've been home and
[04:07:27] God, man the war is a wash with green on blue incidents. It happens all the time
[04:07:32] But to me in the moment as a young inexperienced leader who wanted to be popular didn't want to make the heart decision
[04:07:37] Maybe just consciously or unconsciously blew it off
[04:07:40] It bit me in the ass, you know, and it and it got one of my guys killed and got four of them wounded and it was just it just is
[04:07:46] the worst feeling in the world, you know
[04:07:50] Well the good thing is you're in here right now and you wrote this book to teach these lessons to young
[04:07:54] young jails that are out there and n'sios that are out there that have to hold the line
[04:08:05] Going back to the book
[04:08:07] Enough was enough lieutenant Colonel toner coordinated a battalion size mission to clear and this again
[04:08:12] So this is jumping now we're on page 32 of this whatever this book
[04:08:17] Because now we're getting to a point where you've been through all this crap over and over and over again and the enemies
[04:08:23] They're getting theirs. I mean you guys are kicking their ass, but as battalion
[04:08:28] The enemy is their hostile look we had taken in that year
[04:08:32] We took over three or four thousand rockets and at this point this is around
[04:08:37] October and November timeframe they were hitting us with one 22 millimeter rockets
[04:08:41] I don't know if you if you know what that looks like
[04:08:43] Those are six foot long rockets freaking nightmare. It's the only one that has ever been used with a launcher and
[04:08:49] Afghanistan and we could not find them in every single day
[04:08:53] One 22 is repounding our base we fired more artillery that year and Afghanistan trying to find this one 22
[04:09:01] Launcher and take it out then both Iraq and Afghanistan combined it was just an insane amount of one of five
[04:09:07] Dropped and so every single day we had this old school
[04:09:12] World War two air raid siren on our base and every single day that thing would go off at a different time and
[04:09:19] Guys would run to the bunker. It just got to the point where it was like October and November
[04:09:22] Arbitan commanders was just like to hell with this
[04:09:25] We're mustering the entire battalion in your area of operations and we're walking online all the way to the border and to we find this thing and kill the people who own it
[04:09:33] legit that was that was our mission and who's leading that
[04:09:37] Operation was my
[04:09:38] My普通 was was responsible for pushing all the way to the border and it was like a four or five day mission
[04:09:46] I mean we I mean God it was cool to be a part of man to see
[04:09:49] Four four different companies and another company directly to that six companies total
[04:09:54] All in line walking you know at a na and the Marines are on the high ground
[04:09:58] We got my trucks in the low ground and then we'd rotate we'd be I mean it was just like something
[04:10:02] Out of world war two and we I mean look we were doing trench clearing I mean they the enemy had
[04:10:09] We were walking in areas that no American troops had ever been in and there were enemy trenches and we were doing trench clearing
[04:10:15] It was it was awesome. I mean what other infantry unit is doing trench clearing we were and
[04:10:21] I mean man we ran at those little assholes out man. Yeah, I was so lucky to in Ramadi
[04:10:26] We were doing brigade size operations and it was so
[04:10:30] Oh awesome. Yeah, I was gonna say to see you get to see that you guys do that kind of stuff not not a lot
[04:10:37] But like we even we didn't execute, but there was a big like division operation that was going on and I sat through this big briefing
[04:10:43] Yeah, they're cool man. I'm thinking myself this is so awesome
[04:10:46] And you know for us it was like World War II because we had tanks and the tanks are rolling through
[04:10:50] Smaks buildings and firing their main guns I can't imagine that it was really cool
[04:10:55] Be part of I mean be a little tiny tiny part of that was awesome to see you know for me
[04:11:01] Yeah, right to be a tiny part of that is awesome and to see the combined arms power
[04:11:07] Of the United States military brought to bear an enemy oh my god
[04:11:12] So brigade battalion level operations are no joke. I mean
[04:11:17] The Apache's and a tens we had a British tornado tornado whatever you go British tornado come do a show a force in a
[04:11:23] Wattie system and those British pilots are crazy freaks man
[04:11:27] Find down I mean it looked like you could reach up and touch this jet come screaming down over ahead and peel up away
[04:11:31] And I'm like this
[04:11:33] This is
[04:11:34] Something like I've never experienced one thing to be in a kill zone and put two inverses with an enemy
[04:11:39] But seeing a
[04:11:40] Battalion brigade division level operation and to be a part of it. It is I mean
[04:11:46] We'd go to bed at night
[04:11:47] It would be like something out of saving private Ryan would be sleeping on this ridge line
[04:11:51] The the horizon would be a wash would be like light up every now and again with one of five
[04:11:55] Boom boom you can feel that shutter in your bones you can feel it to cloud in your teeth and it's just you can feel the crump of it
[04:12:01] And then all of a sudden you know it's AC 130 Spectre Guns Quickly come on station
[04:12:06] Yes, and I'd be the guy on the front like coordinating targets with it with a J-Tac like hitting targets
[04:12:12] And we just fall asleep to that all night and then we'd get up and we do a sensitive side exploitation like at night or in the next day
[04:12:18] It was just like we just methodically took out everyone. It was the resistance as you guys pushed through this oh
[04:12:24] So we very first day we we go we went down a route called route trans Am and that was the that was the main route all the way to the border
[04:12:32] That we've had most of the issues for the enemy on and
[04:12:37] The Marines run the high ground with the A and A we run the low ground
[04:12:40] We
[04:12:41] entire Battalion mustard right behind us
[04:12:44] My opportunity pushes into the the mall of this
[04:12:47] Water system and route trans Am in three dudes in black man jams rpg ZK47 is run out from this side
[04:12:55] Road to start like waving their weapons and
[04:12:58] the A and A on the high ground just
[04:13:02] Start chasing them and I'm just like I get on the radio the Marines are like stop stop the A and a stop stop
[04:13:07] And two obvious they got baited into an ambush. They got surrounded and cut off all the
[04:13:12] All the Marines that are with them that were wounded the Marine commander on the ground with shot in the pelvis
[04:13:17] This is the guy was telling you about my opportunity
[04:13:20] Like our battalion commander and our company commander come running up to us
[04:13:23] So what's going on? I gave him the situation and they're trying to figure out a castback situation
[04:13:27] I'm like send a send we'll go get him right now send a send and so they sent us in and
[04:13:32] We drive into this kill zone. We start taking fire from all so I mean, it was just crazy
[04:13:36] Start taking fire from all sides
[04:13:38] I'm watching my truck the truck and front of me window shatter and all around it
[04:13:42] I'm looking up in the trees the water system is real tight right and these guys are just perks stuff on trees
[04:13:47] All these cliff-sized just taking pot shots at our gunners and we couldn't traverse our guns
[04:13:52] We couldn't traverse them high enough to actually mate so guys were coming up with the rifles and trying to shoot them and stuff
[04:13:56] It was crazy so watch the gunner and the and St. Jean
[04:14:00] John St. Jean from Haiti get shot in the head drop in the turret
[04:14:03] So get this when we eventually
[04:14:05] Evacuum the bullet punctured his helmet his helmet slowed the round enough that the round still punctured his skin
[04:14:12] But stopped on his skull skirt it around his skin on his like around the outside of his skull and back out the other side
[04:14:19] I mean this is like this is the kind of shit that you expect I mean it's like how is he alive?
[04:14:23] I happen to have guy it's crazy
[04:14:25] It's just crazy didn't come out the other side of the skin the the medic the corpsman just came over and like pushed the bullet
[04:14:33] Round back up to the entry point and squeeze the bullet out like a zip
[04:14:38] Oh God
[04:14:40] The bullets
[04:14:42] That's gross. Oh God, but so so we end up in this kill zone. We can't get to the Marines
[04:14:47] Where he's completely cut off and so we pull out we got like four or five casualties
[04:14:50] I had to evacuate we got them out we got them treated and this is when haul and this is when haul says
[04:14:56] I'm going up to get him sir give me it give me five guys from second-but-tune
[04:15:00] I'll take my squad up and get him and he fought up there. He fought up the hill fought to fought through two flanks of the enemy all the way
[04:15:08] I know just like I have a picture of him ascending the hill like looking back down the hill like doing this number
[04:15:13] I don't know why we got that picture, but it's it's it's always just a badass and
[04:15:19] fought through two flanks of the enemy gets to this Marine
[04:15:21] treats his wounds
[04:15:23] leads in a jungle penetrator
[04:15:25] Blackhawk helicopter comes in two Apache's for an escort they get at jungle penetrator in both the patches take shots
[04:15:32] They have to pull off station the blackhawk gets shot up. They get the guy the Marine on the jungle penetrator flying back
[04:15:38] But I mean our our birds got shot up. I mean so we ended up killing a bunch of the back guys
[04:15:44] This is when
[04:15:45] When St. Jean got shot in the head
[04:15:47] He fired and the guy that shot him fire they hit each other right and St. Jean hit the guy in the stomach and this guy tumbles down right next to our truck
[04:15:54] And that's when I see him like looking in this guy's eyes
[04:15:57] He's got this gaping stomach one. He's like bleeding to death right there in the dirt. There's no question. He's gonna die and he's just looking at me
[04:16:04] And I'm just like looking at him and nurses know remorse in this guy's eyes if it were reversed
[04:16:09] He's just the most evil. There's no
[04:16:12] No redeeming no redemption in those eyes, you know and
[04:16:16] Over the radio stalkers on the radio the guy that saved me on June 10th to pull me up that guy's on the radio
[04:16:21] He's got a shotgun leaning out his money. He's like let me take him out. Let me take him out. I'm sitting and I'm like no
[04:16:26] No, it will come on sir. Why?
[04:16:28] Let me take him out and my gunner's like sir because he's got a shotgun
[04:16:30] He's like you're sorry. He's right there. Let me kill him. Let me kill him. I'm like no
[04:16:33] We're not doing that we're not doing that and I just not I just remember thinking this was this
[04:16:38] There's like
[04:16:39] This was like a split second thing to like not happen
[04:16:41] And I had to reinforce the several times. They're like I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. I'm like no you're not
[04:16:46] I just felt
[04:16:48] In the clearest say it was like divine clarity or whatever. I just did not want this shit head
[04:16:53] I don't want this guy's soul this terrible evil disgusting human being soul on the hearts of these men
[04:17:00] You know my men are
[04:17:03] worse so much more you know and so
[04:17:07] We go out we evacuate our casualties and we go back in right we you know
[04:17:11] E-vacricazies go back in try to get the Marine we couldn't do it but the guy was gone. He'd be an E-vac
[04:17:15] There's just a puddle of blood there, but still like
[04:17:17] These guys E-vac this guy
[04:17:20] What was like a sheer cliff face you know what I mean? So that was on that was first five minutes of the batai in operation
[04:17:27] Just to give you sense of the enemy we face you know and we got an entire batai in of infantry brought to bear that was the first five minutes
[04:17:34] So we took those guys out and that's when we did the trench clearing on the next ridge lines
[04:17:37] So these guys were shooting us from these trenches and I got all this crazy pictures of this trench complex and we're like like
[04:17:43] You know just like room clearing with number one man just kind of marching down the trench and stuff. It's a crazy shit ever
[04:17:48] I mean we
[04:17:50] We did trench clearing once at JRTC is not like it's something we trained for you know
[04:17:55] I mean, but it was just crazy that there we were no shit doing trench clearing you know and people people will criticize
[04:18:00] I mean we're enemy really in the trenches. I'm like yeah
[04:18:03] We really were in the trenches fighting these guys and then we'd take over their trenches and light them for two
[04:18:07] We'd stay there we'd hold the line there. It was just crazy and
[04:18:10] And
[04:18:12] We ended up fighting all the way to the border and we found a bunch of their camps and this was our thing like
[04:18:16] Halfway through the deployment. We just started burn their camps to the ground shooting their livestock
[04:18:21] You know killing their livestock burn their camps taking their guns ammunition
[04:18:25] Whatever whatever until we could exploit from their camps and just burn the rest of the ground and man that pissed them off
[04:18:30] And we found their final camp right in the border and that have gotten like in one final attack with them and that up killing them
[04:18:37] But along the way we found the 122 launcher killed the guys that were operating it captured it
[04:18:43] Yeah, we captured the launcher first ever captured and I've gannest in and then we found this one of seven launcher that had been using
[04:18:49] That they had like a dummy cord of wires and we got in this crazy
[04:18:53] We got in this crazy like okay
[04:18:55] Carral shoot out with the guys we're like I'm on a dismounted patrol and I got a fire team with me in my pertune behind me
[04:19:00] And I'm on point with them and I just like give the freeze right and everyone takes a knee and I pick up this like a little piece of yellow wire
[04:19:06] That's this long and I'm like I mean honestly, I didn't think anything of it
[04:19:10] I should have but I'm like this distance and that's the distance and feel right and all the sudden we look up and
[04:19:14] Contan win my guy from South Vietnam is like he's like Dr. Jones Dr. Jones like that guy
[04:19:19] He's like so we got him back on like all the sudden it was like they're 10 feet away from it
[04:19:24] It's just like like okay core out shoot out right there and
[04:19:28] Contan like ended up pegging the guy chasing bonds. I charge him and everything else and we're like running after these guys
[04:19:33] It was a crazy this was my life dude, and this is not the kind of I
[04:19:37] Mean I cannot believe that I went through some of this shit man
[04:19:41] I mean just not the kind of you know, yeah, and so this was we pushed them out then we went to Christmas and then and then
[04:19:48] And then we got
[04:19:51] Like we we got attacked one more time by like a big big big big big big big big force
[04:19:57] Yeah, you guys you guys
[04:19:59] I Mean when you guys close the doubt I mean you get to the point where you close out
[04:20:03] You're like they're last stand on the final day. We see the high ground overlooking the frontier
[04:20:07] We remain the remaining enemy soldiers chose to make their last stand here between us and Pakistan on reborder checkpoint
[04:20:13] They marshaled their remaining weapons and in place their machine guns with their usual tactical cunning
[04:20:18] We'd been under fire for almost a week filthy reaking of gun powder and body odor
[04:20:22] Constipated by MREs we'd spent Operation catamount blood sleeping in our rigs between scourmishes
[04:20:27] Now came the climactic moment moment. We spent all year making last stands against their furious assaults here
[04:20:33] The roles were reversed and they would die in place. Yes. Yes. It was awesome
[04:20:38] It was awesome our forward air controllers called in a final series of air strikes the eight ten pilots
[04:20:44] The eight ten pilots unleashed to do what we're unleashed to do what they do best with J. Dan's and 30 millimeter
[04:20:50] Strafing runs the ward hogs pulverized the enemy when it was over there was no need to assault that'll last stand
[04:20:57] Not an insurgent remained upright
[04:21:00] Captain die in Lieutenant Colonel toner walked to our ridge. They've been working the radios with the forward air controllers
[04:21:07] And now gaze down into the smoke shrouded valley the last eight ten swept past its chain gun
[04:21:12] Showed throwing lead in one final act of overkill as it pulled up and race skyward die in toner erupted in cheers
[04:21:20] Soon all along our line the men joined in it was crazy. It was like here's all pain
[04:21:25] I'm saying I've telling you man. I would victory cures all pain. It's the truth
[04:21:31] I mean we had we had been on the receiving end of this shit for almost a year
[04:21:36] We finally drove those little bastards back to Pakistan and we cheer was like something out of a movie man
[04:21:41] It was like everyone's like holding the rifle up in the air and cheering and we thought that was the last attack
[04:21:46] But it wasn't we thought that was their last stand
[04:21:48] But then they threw I'm telling you that through everything but the kitchen sink at us in January right right two days before
[04:21:53] Like a piece of wood you got the heads up from Intel. Yeah, yeah, so you're you're out in an OP right and and you're we built
[04:22:01] This was the very first combat out of this little compound out post. Yeah, yeah, so we built it and we were there with these engineers
[04:22:07] Right and we're like like it was built in the literally the worst place you could possibly imagine I'm like sir
[04:22:11] This is stupid like this is not a good place to put a base now
[04:22:15] We got to put it here brigades, so we got to put it there. So we'll put it there. So we bring these engineers in to do this and we get a like we get a
[04:22:21] TAC there's like some stupid rock and attack or something and we all go to bed
[04:22:24] We all go to bed and like keep in mind we're like this is like one of the most dangerous places
[04:22:27] And I've got like four gun trucks up there with me. So I got 16 guys or six something like 16 guys in the ground
[04:22:33] And I got a bunch of engineers fill in these hasco walls. We wake up right at the night after the the first attack
[04:22:39] And it was like a nothing burger attack and we wake up and all the engineers are gone
[04:22:43] They had did he mount in the middle of the night left his there. They left his there with half filled hasco walls
[04:22:48] The base wasn't even complete. So now we're really stranded. There's nowhere we can go. We're just 16 of you. Yeah, so we had the car gun trucks
[04:22:54] Yes, so I have any afghan with you any anything no no
[04:22:58] No, they didn't want to go out there and patrol this is up in Margaard Margaard was right on the border
[04:23:01] And so we had to call for reinforcements somewhere to get a couple more trucks up there
[04:23:05] I got like now I've got like 26 27 guys up there and it's like we're going home in two weeks right everyone is like
[04:23:13] Checked out at this point like they just want to go home safely and I get this call
[04:23:18] Like no bullshit this call I'm in my truck at like three in the morning
[04:23:22] Get a call from my S2 my intelligence guys up at Patience and hey black up 36 this is catamount two
[04:23:31] you know just I
[04:23:33] Don't want to alarm you, but there are 350 guys coming to attack your position right now and I I just was like
[04:23:41] I like I like take the hand mic and I just like you're see the Hitler memes where he takes his glasses
[04:23:47] Oh, you know it's like that moment for me. I just like okay, just okay, Roger
[04:23:52] And I put the hand mic slow and I like slept walk over to Greece and I said hey, yeah, did you hear that and he's like
[04:23:59] I heard it and I so
[04:24:01] What do we what do we do what do we do about days like
[04:24:04] He did he literally just gonna I don't know so I go back over to my truck
[04:24:08] I call I said I said what's going on? He said he's like look we're gonna stack up air for you
[04:24:12] We're gonna make sure that you have air all we need you to do is observe
[04:24:15] We've got a predator in the air. We've got predator out. But you got a force coming from
[04:24:20] Directly from the east marching down this route just north of route
[04:24:23] Transan where we had thought we'd wiped out the enemy of force of 250 coming from that direction and another 50
[04:24:29] Force of 50 coming in from the northwest so an massive sort of pincer movement
[04:24:34] And to our been to our Patoon that marked him on like FBCB2 like you guys have those two like the
[04:24:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's been watching these like little red marks come to our you know come to our position. How often did you see that?
[04:24:45] See that see them actually marking their like I never never have to have to like we'd never even really
[04:24:52] I mean look the whole entire batined was in here
[04:24:54] So they had they had predator that two predators out there on the objective under a nods they were sprinkling where they the bad guys were and
[04:25:01] And look later I still have I still have the the predator feed from that you can count all 250
[04:25:08] I'm so they stacked up all this air and we waited for him to get a kilometer away from where we were and the last thing they said before
[04:25:15] We dropped
[04:25:16] probably 150 rounds of 105's on him
[04:25:19] Siamal Tanius three or four two thousand pound bombs on him. They said like when you you know when you get to say said something like
[04:25:25] Here's what you wrote no ball when you overrun the Americans caught their eggs off and melt them on stage
[04:25:31] Yeah, good luck and I'll see you on the objective. I'll see you on the objective. Did you guys get that until report while you're out there?
[04:25:37] Yes, oh my god, and then and then so we dropped
[04:25:40] Okay, so we we kicked off the engagement we had a B1 on station
[04:25:44] Kipped off the engagement I have I have the I had the predator of all this I have the predator of the entire of the Jdms
[04:25:51] Fallen everything and the bad guys scary and it's the craziest shit you'd ever see and like
[04:25:56] Three or four right in a row
[04:25:57] They were all marching in a tactical column so one bomb boom boom boom all the way down the column
[04:26:02] Right and you see these it's like it's on white hot so that
[04:26:05] Split split just blazing in on the predator you see these guys run around and then
[04:26:09] Spectre comes in and starts lighting these guys up and Apache takes on this force from the I mean it was the crazy
[04:26:14] I'm telling you and an eight ten coming in and then the predator gets in with the how fires
[04:26:17] I got the whole thing on predator and it's just that we went on the objective that the very next day and this went on all night
[04:26:23] We just lit these mother up all night long and and we get on the objective and it was
[04:26:31] It was the most gnarly thing I'd ever seen just do us at an SSE like a sensitive side exploitation
[04:26:37] But get on the objective and there are
[04:26:39] Literal body parts hanging up in the trees there are human body parts that stretch from where they were about to
[04:26:47] Prepo and attack on us stretch back two kilometers
[04:26:51] Two kilometers of just utter
[04:26:53] Gore and devastation and
[04:26:56] There were one survivor when we get back there in the A&As like like hitting this guy with the buttstock of an AK 47 the guys barely clinging to life
[04:27:02] Really wasn't worth much to it's anyway, but what we found was these guys had better Merrill combat boots than we did
[04:27:09] They were all wearing body armor. They had helmets on their rifles were fresh still with the packing grease
[04:27:16] Iranian serial numbers right and
[04:27:19] I mean, their equipment was better just just as good if not better than ours. I'm surprised it they did an evonite vision and some of them had pack mill
[04:27:27] Military frontier core ID cards
[04:27:29] Damn and we sent all this intel up higher and I swear to God two days later
[04:27:35] We get a call back to the to the 80 second airborne comes in to relieve us my guy start getting sent home one at a time
[04:27:41] And no bullshit like my guys are in various phases of redeployment like I'm the last one with the grease in on the base right now
[04:27:47] Like thinking Jesus Christ I'm surrounded by all these guys because you deployments over it. It's over it
[04:27:52] It's like started to you started to send guys on once and people a lot of times people think so the military
[04:27:57] You know just everyone will come in and leave at the same time know, but it's sort of a trickle thing
[04:28:01] You got to get squeeze people in where you can get rid of correct people are just trying to head home at this point correct
[04:28:06] And so I got guys home that've already made it home. They've already reunited with their families
[04:28:10] I got guys and bogram ready to fly home. I got guys in the air. I mean, they're spread out all over
[04:28:15] It's just me and grease and left on the base with a bunch of 80 second airborne guys and you're gonna do some turnover on ops with them
[04:28:20] Yep, we did what's called like a in the army like a rip-toa
[04:28:23] Relief in place. So now it's just you and grease and
[04:28:26] Laging or it's as gone in various stages of getting home or they're actually home
[04:28:32] And then this happens five days later
[04:28:34] 0300 grease and I were roused from restless sleep until to report to the operation center
[04:28:39] We rest over to find Lieutenant Colonel Toner waiting for us on our computerized conference system
[04:28:45] When Captain died joined us lieutenant Colonel said men I'm gonna read to you a quote from the former Marine Corps common-dont
[04:28:52] General Charles C. Kruellac and here's the quote when the hard times come and they will
[04:29:00] People cling to leaders
[04:29:02] They know and trust to those who are not detached but involved and to those who have consciences
[04:29:09] They will seek out leaders who stand for something bigger than themselves and who have the moral courage and strength of character to do
[04:29:17] What they know in their hearts to be the right thing
[04:29:20] And you're thinking what the hell is this
[04:29:25] men
[04:29:27] We have been extended for 120 days
[04:29:31] He let that sink in thoughts of home vanished as I did the math June
[04:29:35] We would be here until June. We would have to survive another spring offensive
[04:29:39] What are the odds of that the room spun the men around me looked asian
[04:29:45] After Lieutenant Colonel Toner signed off, Greece and let out one of his classic sling blade laughs
[04:29:51] Has if he didn't have a care in the world
[04:29:53] I need a cigarette
[04:29:54] He growled as he stepped out into the night
[04:29:57] I followed furious in his real action. What that was wrong with you I yelled
[04:30:01] How can you not be pissed off at this? Greece and just shook his head sir every deployment I've ever been on has been extended
[04:30:07] It don't mean nothing it just means we get to play on me for four more months
[04:30:11] Over the next 48 hours my platoon reassembled at Fobber Mill
[04:30:17] Most of the men had learned the bad news at Bogram as they were waiting for their flight home
[04:30:21] They were re-assured their body armor helmets and gear and thrown back into a chinook
[04:30:25] Others had already made it back to the United States military police knocked on their doors
[04:30:29] Or met them at the airport and told them the news
[04:30:31] They would told the pack and escort it onto the first available flights out
[04:30:35] They came back sonland fearful and devoid of hope
[04:30:38] Everyone knew the odds we had all had close encounters with death
[04:30:44] A few inches of one way a failure to duck
[04:30:48] Attorned the left instead of the right and death would have had us
[04:30:51] We cheated it so many times that it seemed inconceivable that luck would have our backs now
[04:30:58] When we all gathered back at Burmel Captain Diadrestas men he announced
[04:31:02] Bros. Lee we will begin continuous combat operations tonight we're back on it
[04:31:10] suck it up
[04:31:13] We became a platoon of condemned as darkness fell our bullet scarred home visa waited us in ones and two
[04:31:19] Is the platoons gathered around them drivers slip behind the wheels gunners climbed into the turrets and loaded their weapons
[04:31:25] My dismounts sacked stacked extra comp ammunition into their rigs
[04:31:29] Greece and smoked and stalked around with his neer beer unflappable as ever
[04:31:33] Saboblu refuse and yelled at one of his men
[04:31:36] I watched the familiar scene and felt nothing but a biting love for these incredible human beings
[04:31:42] Did America know the metal of her warrior sons?
[04:31:47] Not a man refused his duty
[04:31:50] Despite everything we had not lost the one thing that mattered most
[04:31:55] Faith in one another
[04:31:57] Chris Brown stood in my turret shoulder sagging as I opened my door I asked him how you do in brother
[04:32:05] He looked down at me with young man's eyes a thousand years old
[04:32:09] We got this sir
[04:32:11] No worries
[04:32:16] We got this sir no worries and I actually wanted to call that out specifically because to me that little statement from him
[04:32:23] I
[04:32:25] Reflex
[04:32:28] the main
[04:32:29] broad
[04:32:31] over arching
[04:32:34] Spirit of the soldiers and sailors and airmen and marines that I worked with their collective response to whatever the world throws at him
[04:32:46] Is that right there we got this no worries
[04:32:48] and
[04:32:51] Then you know you you asked the question right there does America know the metal of her warriors and that's
[04:33:00] That's another thing and that's why I'm glad that you wrote this book
[04:33:04] And I'm glad when people come out and explain what it's like for real on the front lines
[04:33:11] Because you know we just talked about that that psychological thing of getting home or
[04:33:20] Getting to get to sleep and be warm and comfortable and then having to go back and you guys got that to the end degree
[04:33:27] I think it was by far
[04:33:29] the most difficult part of our entire deployment because if you think about
[04:33:33] the history of any military
[04:33:35] You know in the days of Sparta like and you were called to arms like you were directly responsible for how good
[04:33:43] You were with your weapon system you had your own weapons as you trained on it you lived or died by it, you know
[04:33:49] and
[04:33:51] In many ways you were accountable almost directly responsible and accountable for how you performed in the battlefield right
[04:33:56] But in the modern day armies like these things are issued to you, you know and
[04:34:01] Your issued your weapon your issued three meals a day you're given shelter the army itself in an
[04:34:07] Abstract way almost fulfills and almost paternal like role to a lot of these soldiers so
[04:34:14] When when we were extended
[04:34:17] You know guy like Greason who's been there done that he knows it's a possibility right?
[04:34:21] But young guys like me who made it most of the butoon like we didn't and it felt like a betrayal
[04:34:27] You know almost by like a parent and that violation of trust you know how we felt about it at the time
[04:34:33] Anyway, it was almost insurmountable to kind of you know there's something that happens when you get back to
[04:34:38] Borgram and you turn in your armor piercing sappy plates and all your your ammo and yet, you know
[04:34:44] You know you're going on you just say you say you're sub okay, I made it
[04:34:48] This like a logic that made it you brain dumb stubby let your hair down a little bit you kick back you smile
[04:34:52] You everything just feels a little bit better life the world just feels a little bit more colorful like you're not looking through
[04:35:00] You know dirt and crusted window all the time right that everything it's like
[04:35:04] Everything's amazing food tastes better water tastes better your workouts are better like everything is better
[04:35:09] You know and to find out that like
[04:35:12] All of that has been pulled out from underneath you and you somehow you have to go back into the fray
[04:35:19] And
[04:35:20] Survive another spring offensive or
[04:35:23] I get you more volley fires of RPGs more listen to those assholes on i-com
[04:35:29] I mean seriously more rockets more air raid Simon going off in the middle of the night. It was just
[04:35:34] It was the greatest leadership challenge that I've ever had to endure to see those guys get off the Chinook
[04:35:41] With again young man's eyes a thousand years old these this is this is
[04:35:46] This is the play to if I think the warrior in in general in that
[04:35:50] We come back to the states and like we might you know an age wise be 20 something
[04:35:55] But we've we've lived the lives of someone who's a thousand years old and lost just as many people have seen your citizens on our own country, you know
[04:36:03] And so this is this is what I had in my platoon a group of men a group of boys who would really had the life experience life time of experience is
[04:36:12] a man you know a man grown man and
[04:36:15] and
[04:36:17] At the end of the day it was
[04:36:19] You know the love and brotherhood that we share for one another, you know you always hear like with the the the might of the American military
[04:36:26] And things that we can bring to bear and we got the best equipment and we have the
[04:36:29] You know the best rivals and the best technology and you're on the cutting edge of everything and all that's great
[04:36:35] But really what makes the American military the best in the history of the world
[04:36:39] You know our secret weapon our real secret weapon is the grit the love the brotherhood that we share for one another
[04:36:45] And it's that attitude it's that attitude and that love that we share for one another
[04:36:51] That allows us to accomplish anything on the battlefield
[04:36:54] You know we rely we don't want to fail the man and woman to the left of the right of us, you know
[04:36:58] And that love drives us to do extraordinary things and that's what I saw
[04:37:01] I mean look this of the outlaw baton these weren't navy seals these were kids, you know
[04:37:06] A lot of my machine gunners who performed the most heroic acts you can possibly imagine I've never seen
[04:37:11] Never seen 18-year-old kids do the things that I saw that my men do in that puttoon
[04:37:16] The jobs that they had before toting a machine gun in the mountains of Afghanistan was high school shortstop
[04:37:21] Yet somehow these guys came out and they brought it every single day
[04:37:25] You know ordinary men doing extraordinary things
[04:37:28] You know the greatest triumphs of the human spirit were the things that I saw in combat every day so you know
[04:37:34] Combat can be
[04:37:36] I mean obviously it's hell on earth. It's destructive. It's terrible people get hurt wounded killed
[04:37:42] But I also saw some of the greatest most beautiful triumphs of the human spirit as well all in a
[04:37:47] Motley group of infantry guys that
[04:37:50] Different races socioeconomic statuses different countries whatever different religions
[04:37:54] Come together and accomplish amazing things and
[04:37:58] And
[04:38:00] You know really if it weren't for them. I mean I'm telling you right now in a very literal sense of it weren't for them
[04:38:04] I wouldn't be here. I mean I had one of my soldiers saved my life on the battlefield when I hurt when I got wounded but
[04:38:10] I mean I owe them everything and that's what that book is about that book is a testament to their to their legacy
[04:38:15] I mean I remember getting back
[04:38:18] You know I go to my arm our league and I believe and actually my soldiers would go in their leave and
[04:38:22] Americans would be like so where are we deployed? Oh, thank you for your service right?
[04:38:25] We're great. I'm grateful that we live in a country that's like that
[04:38:28] They'd be like oh oh you're in a f*** oh good you're in Afghanistan. Oh just thank God you're not Iraq orackers just so bad
[04:38:34] You know and my guys would be like Jesus
[04:38:36] I just got shot in the head last week and they'd come home and be like sir Americans have no idea what that
[04:38:41] We're doing over here so I just felt like
[04:38:45] At some some it's my job as the leader to step up and try to capture their legacy and write a book and make sure that
[04:38:52] Their heroism on the battlefield does not
[04:38:54] It's not lost through the ages like I want I want their exploits to be written
[04:38:59] So that we can pass down the heroic exploits down the future generations and that that's what that book is it's their story. It's not mine
[04:39:08] And so you guys wrapped up the
[04:39:11] Next four months. How was the last four months? How was terrible? I mean we still got a tack you know
[04:39:16] I mean and the thing is the people that we attacked were not nearly as good and they weren't nearly as well trained
[04:39:21] But you know a stray bullet is a stray bullet doesn't matter. You know catch a ricochet off a ballistic shield hit you in the head underneath your helmet your dead, you know
[04:39:30] so
[04:39:32] It was still pretty rough. I didn't write about it in that book
[04:39:35] But it was still pretty rough and somehow
[04:39:38] You know I had some great it also
[04:39:41] The combat was crazy but also had some crazy leadership experiences as well because of the surge
[04:39:46] Uh all the units that were sent to were supposed to replace us went to Iraq instead
[04:39:52] That's why we were extended there was literally nobody to replace us
[04:39:55] Well they ended up tag in the 173rd airborne
[04:39:58] They guys that we had really even going in to come back and they were tasked with going to Iraq and so they were in Germany at CMTC
[04:40:05] Training just a month prior to the deployment just to get ready for an adventure
[04:40:09] eventual deployment to Afghanistan and they they had been training for that
[04:40:12] Area of an operation so they plucked one lieutenant and one senior non-commission officer from the battalion to go and train these guys
[04:40:20] In Germany on a moment notice and it was me so three weeks so for three weeks just prior to the second spring offensive
[04:40:27] I found myself boots on the ground in Germany
[04:40:30] Training one 73rd airborne guys embedded with a company in Germany. I mean it was just this never happened before
[04:40:36] Not this has never happened before
[04:40:37] You know
[04:40:39] I mean an army I mean we our deployment was 485 days man. I mean like easy company
[04:40:44] The 101st airborne jumped into Normandy and hot and fought to Hitler's Eagles nice and less time
[04:40:49] 145 days
[04:40:50] We're just out there flappin in the wind that whole time man and and and you know and then I get so it we get extended the last day
[04:40:58] Go to Germany like I mean just put that in a movie you wouldn't believe you'd be like oh yeah
[04:41:02] Yeah, right exactly the guys are back in America and now they're getting told now
[04:41:06] That is what I think about now. I look back on this experience and I'm like oh my god
[04:41:10] This truth is stranger than fiction man. Yeah, and then you guys get you guys eventually do get home and
[04:41:18] They start their work up, but you're you're like non-deployable now because you're yeah
[04:41:22] Because of all those wounds that you talked about you're brain you're you're fractures to your skull
[04:41:26] You're brain you're lecking leak and fluid out of your ears. I had cerebral spinal fluid dry
[04:41:31] He it healed I was able to function and and combat and by the way I'll tell you I
[04:41:35] Since that book is come out I've been criticized a lot about hey man like you're a leader
[04:41:40] You get to take care of yourself. You can't take care of your own injuries how you expect to take care of your troops
[04:41:45] And that's a good it's a good criticism. It's a valid criticism. I I just respond
[04:41:49] You know and I think it's kind of one of a dress that here going off script a little bit like
[04:41:53] I'd guys get in shot and they had every day wrapping up their heads like mummies and going back on on patrol
[04:41:58] You know how I'm they're leader. Yeah, how can I leave them when they're doing that?
[04:42:03] And so that's my that's my response to that like look at it might and at that
[04:42:08] I would have done it the same way now. What I'm not leaving them no matter how badly I was hurt, you know
[04:42:14] But I get the criticism I do and so I get back to Fort Drum
[04:42:18] You know
[04:42:18] I start having vertigo and all these issues. I never have an surgery to get all the cerebral spinal fluid
[04:42:24] Remove from my sinus cavities because it's right in there that was terrible and then if going back to the traumatic brain injury clinic at Fort Drum
[04:42:31] and occupational therapy physical therapy like find motor skill stuff speech therapy just this round robin thing and
[04:42:38] My battalion was working up to go back again. I was made the rear detachment commander that was the worst job ever
[04:42:43] I was doing all casher unification for the guy so
[04:42:46] The crazy thing and again, I don't talk about it. You just like flew through that your your guys deploy again
[04:42:52] Yeah, my patreon. Yeah, you can't deploy
[04:42:55] Because of your injuries and so now you're stuck back in the rear and
[04:42:59] And the job they assign you with is what we call in the Navy we call it a cake-o officer casualty assistant calls officer
[04:43:08] What do you guys call me? Well, yeah, so we call it a CAO casualty assistant officer
[04:43:12] But I was the rear detachment commander as well. So it's my job to liais with all the wives and
[04:43:18] train the new recruits to go and take care of the wounded ones when they came back
[04:43:23] So every single soldier that was wounded it was my job to call and notify the family, right?
[04:43:27] and
[04:43:29] It cashiest assistant officer was like an every other month thing so we'd rotate there would be one cashiest assistant officer from the rear
[04:43:35] Yeah, and it rotate through the battions so every couple months I'd be the CAO where you're going to the doors and notifying family members
[04:43:42] I ended up going I have to tell you that that was that duty position was worse than combat because
[04:43:48] You know it's like when you're there
[04:43:50] You're like you just I just want to be the best leader that can be to get as many men as home as possible
[04:43:55] Right kills many bad guys as we can accomplish a mission get my boys home then he come back
[04:44:01] And get assigned the rear-dee commander job my men are given a different between leader third, you know a good puttune leader
[04:44:08] You know
[04:44:09] Where they train up they go back and now I'm the rear-dee commander and have to watch them as far as my buttune gets torn torn apart
[04:44:15] Just torn apart Jeff Hall died in that next deployment five my guys died in that next deployment
[04:44:20] It was just I had to go to their funeral as I had to meet with their families
[04:44:25] I had it just like here I did
[04:44:27] 485 days of absolute hell where I would have done anything for these guys to get them home alive
[04:44:31] We finally do we go back to we go back to Afghanistan nine months later and all of a time just gets torn up
[04:44:37] Just torn up and I have to watch from afar as it happens. It was just just just hell
[04:44:42] It was just hell man. I just it's those guys
[04:44:45] Went through so much and they still they still they still struggling
[04:44:49] We lost men since I think
[04:44:51] I mean to this day we've lost more soldiers to suicide and accidents and things after the war that we actually
[04:44:59] Have in combat which is crazy
[04:45:07] You're you're on that duty. This is the last thing when I read from the book
[04:45:10] Two years earlier young man had walked into my office at four drum fresh faced and all smiles
[04:45:17] The kid had saluted me and told me that his uncle had told them to seek me out who's your uncle I asked
[04:45:23] Philip Baldwin sir. I want to serve with you and his old buttune. I'm Baldwin
[04:45:28] stunned. I said to him do you know your uncle is a hero?
[04:45:31] He shook his head. I told him the story of what Baldwin had done on June 10th when I finished I said to him
[04:45:37] You have some really big shoes to fill if I put you in the platoon
[04:45:42] You need to measure up
[04:45:44] Resilute steady eyes greeted those words. I could see he didn't cut from the same mold as his uncle
[04:45:50] Not only did he join third platoon his brother-in-law private Matthew Wilson did as well
[04:45:56] Third platoon had become more than a brotherhood. It had become a family
[04:46:00] Private Wilson was killed in action during the same attack that claimed sergeant Hall
[04:46:09] Baldwin's family had paid a terrible price for their love of country
[04:46:14] Now Wilson's coffin lay before us sealed with his body inside we stood back in the crowd alone with our thoughts
[04:46:23] That's when we noticed him a tall man wearing a black suit
[04:46:27] He had a go-teen now and he leaned heavily on a cane
[04:46:32] Is that Baldwin I asked he saw us and hobbled over
[04:46:37] Before words were exchanged our arms wrapped around each other in a fierce embrace
[04:46:42] Long into that desperate and sad moment. I could only think of how I'd last seen him. I can't feel my legs or I can't feel my legs
[04:46:50] As we talked among the crosses Baldwin's mother and grandmother walked up to us
[04:46:57] Philip turned to them and said mom grandma. I want you to meet the man who pulled me off the battle field and saved my life
[04:47:08] They drew me into their arms and told me I was family
[04:47:12] I held them close total strangers but still connected in ways most people will never fathom
[04:47:17] Thank you. Thank you for what you did for Phil. They said through streaming tears
[04:47:25] He is my brother
[04:47:28] Was all I could manage
[04:47:31] I held on and never wanted to let go
[04:47:34] I think you're right about that. I think that most people
[04:47:46] Will not ever be able to fathom that emotion right there
[04:47:54] and you were
[04:47:56] Kind of forced to leave that at the end of the day
[04:48:02] You were medically retired. Yeah, yeah, it was you know my batying got back from the second deployment
[04:48:08] They were gearing up for the third deployment. You know and I was I was put out
[04:48:14] I was put out. It was medically retired. It was terrible the way that it happened to went down
[04:48:19] It's just like you know you come down red as a captain in a battalion
[04:48:23] And a senior captain on my way to 04 my way to major
[04:48:29] And a battalion like there are only so many senior captain no four slots come down red in a powerpoint slide
[04:48:33] It's like we got to get this guy out of here and it's like I can't move any faster than the med board process
[04:48:38] You know it's like once it gets up to the big army
[04:48:40] It's a waiting game what takes forever you know there are a lot of guys wounded a lot of guys being medically retired
[04:48:45] The system was slow
[04:48:47] And so it's basically given that okay once my medical retirement paper came down and was approved my batying commander
[04:48:54] Like trying to get me out and get a new captain in and give me two days to clear for drum
[04:48:58] Got it put out of the army two days and look this isn't a soft story, but it's like two days to say goodbye to everybody
[04:49:04] That I lived my life with for the last six and a half years
[04:49:07] But that's the military man, you know there's a mission and that you know we move the scene keeps rolling. Yes. We moved that mission like a local motor freight train
[04:49:15] And if you're wounded or you're hurt like I get that I love that I respect that, you know, but you got to get out of the way of the train man
[04:49:21] That's just what it is so
[04:49:24] Insulent so then so now what years it?
[04:49:28] I was put out December 19th, 2010 and then what we had you already started writing the book?
[04:49:35] Yeah, I mean I was in the process of cobbling together the chapters in the outlines with minimal success
[04:49:42] You know I it because you're not a writer no, I mean you weren't a writer and I didn't understand the process the agent
[04:49:47] Pride me never like it was like drinking from a fire hose
[04:49:50] Did you did you know that you wanted a book to be published?
[04:49:52] That's it was the purpose of what you were doing absolutely I mean I knew it was my job as I mean
[04:49:56] I've the charge of command the charge of leadership is lifelong
[04:49:59] You have that that you were always be seen as as a leader of your men as long as you breathe
[04:50:04] And so it was my job if that's how I'm approaching the leadership philosophy
[04:50:09] It's my job to also make sure that their legacy is captured and enshrined on the page and so yeah, I wanted I wanted to
[04:50:15] I wanted to write a book and I wanted it to be published and I wanted to be in the library of Congress
[04:50:19] So if people wanted to learn about what my men did and the war of Afghanistan they could pull out out
[04:50:23] Lobotoon and read it and it was hard man. It was like
[04:50:27] Writing a book is really challenging selling it getting an agents even harder and then finding a publisher that would publish your shit is even harder than that and so
[04:50:33] Is this like could you just start writing and
[04:50:39] Figure that the rest of that stuff would come together as it came together
[04:50:42] I agent in the publisher. I started writing and writing and writing and wrote a proposal submitted to agents got
[04:50:48] Rejected by everyone I submitted it to
[04:50:51] Re-wrote it submitted to agents got rejected by everyone I submitted it to and eventually I just
[04:50:56] You know, it's like a learning experience for me is like I don't have this skill set. I need help
[04:50:59] You know and so then I started reading these military memoirs research in the market like doing everything
[04:51:05] I could just soak up knowledge on everything I could about the phases of publishing and I ended up reading
[04:51:11] House the house and a couple of other books that John Bruning and wrote and I'm like I love this this guy's perfect
[04:51:16] And I you know this is before like Facebook was a thing
[04:51:19] This was like it was like Facebook was in its infancy, you know and like I'm like on my space like trying to find the guy
[04:51:24] And I end up finding this this is no they like I'm stumbling across this is like my me slew thing on the internet
[04:51:30] You know stumbling across some cat website and I see the name Shirley
[04:51:34] I see the name Bruning right Sally Bruning I can't remember what this sister's name and turns out to be a sister
[04:51:39] I'm on this cat website
[04:51:41] These cats
[04:51:42] I'm a writer to the email on our website and I'm like, man, you know my name Sean Parnell
[04:51:47] The hostick like my guys were in Afghanistan. We got a tough deployment. I'm desperate to
[04:51:52] Meet your brother if if you are indeed a sister and I think you might be
[04:51:57] Can you please put me in contact with them?
[04:52:00] Like long shot man, and then I remember like sitting there in front of the computer. I'm like
[04:52:04] Oh, I don't want to send this email. I saw like a tool like she's the work of the cop
[04:52:09] It's like cat website
[04:52:12] Yeah, and so I did no week later I get an email from Bruning and I had a phone call with him and
[04:52:16] And after I I belong to it takes for him to comprehend the story that you had
[04:52:23] And I told him briefly we had about we had an hour phone conversation if he goes this is
[04:52:30] This is like the craziest infantry story I've ever heard he's like this this we need to get this book out there and John just became
[04:52:38] I mean, he just was so inspired by
[04:52:41] My men he went to Afghanistan himself just to do the research to learn about it
[04:52:47] It's the smells the sights the sounds he just wanted to experience it and
[04:52:52] I mean he just
[04:52:54] He was all in man and when when when when he was all in we had a great creative vibe
[04:52:58] You know and that that's really hard to come by you know it's hard to come by a guy that's just
[04:53:03] Your personalities mesh that creatives mesh and I mean we worked 12 hours a day on that book and ended up signing with an agent and
[04:53:10] And the agent that had rejected me two or three times already
[04:53:14] But it's like that's life man, you know so much of life is like and how many times you knock on that door and the answer is until your knuckles bleed
[04:53:21] If that don't work you got to kick that fuck already
[04:53:25] Sorry dropping up bombs on your podcast, but but I promised I wouldn't do that no, but but so I ended up submitting this proposal
[04:53:32] Which I thought was awesome to all the big five publishers gets rejected by everyone at least I thought every one of them at the time and I'm like up in some
[04:53:41] You know Walmart pool like crying in my beer and like I failed my mission
[04:53:45] But still like I'm publishing this on a curve. I have to self publish it three or four months go by I hear nothing
[04:53:51] You know how that process goes you know and you're never just did dad and hurt anything
[04:53:55] I get a call from my agent and he's like hey, you know
[04:53:58] David high fill from William Maro Harper Collins like love this like he wants to buy it and then that a read the email is like
[04:54:06] I've been on vacation you know broad for a while
[04:54:08] I stumbled across this I don't think that there's no way that this could still be available
[04:54:12] But I want it and so
[04:54:14] Soldered to David and I've been publishing with William Maro ever since and
[04:54:19] It was just I've sort of given the clip those version of the of my publishing experience up into that point
[04:54:25] Trying to get an agent trying to get a publisher. Oh my god the game is it's exhausting, but
[04:54:30] You know bringing burning on board is what really made it happen. I didn't have that skill set to do it
[04:54:34] He you know I can write a good op-ed like a good history paper with a writing a good story
[04:54:39] Well, no, he did a great job
[04:54:41] I mean just talking to you for the last how many hours 12 or whatever
[04:54:45] It's been a week long pod
[04:54:48] Yeah, but but he did a great job because you know the book sounds like you the book reads like you
[04:54:53] So he's he's he's since become just an amazing friend and he's
[04:55:00] He's he's the most prolific military right I mean he's he wrote the trident to with Jay Redden and
[04:55:06] He's you know my gosh
[04:55:08] Levels er heroes come Blaskey about marine
[04:55:12] Raiders
[04:55:12] Me's he's written a couple of seal books. I mean the guys just
[04:55:16] Right's about World War II the latest latest book is indestructible. I mean I'm the guy's just prolific
[04:55:21] He's awesome is a great writer and he and more than that he's a he's a legit historian that knows his stuff with a deep reverence
[04:55:29] For the military and the legacy of the warrior and he's just he gets it that's awesome and so the book comes out
[04:55:37] The book the book does great right? Yeah, it did it did but it was like it was not expected
[04:55:43] It like it so it was not expected to see nobody I mean like I was the newbie
[04:55:47] I was the captain like nobody really knew what to do they changed the cover five times like I didn't have any media
[04:55:52] Contacts or anything and the book comes out and
[04:55:56] It debuted on the list like it debuted on the New York Times best cellos. I think I don't think it did
[04:56:01] I think it was like 10 might even been 12 or something but I was like
[04:56:06] Holy shit like this is crazy and
[04:56:09] Not only that it started ascending as the weeks went on and so it was the New York Times best cellos
[04:56:13] I think I think we're like 28 weeks or something like that again. I mean no one expected it
[04:56:20] Um and then it came off the list and then around Christmas time that year went back on the list and it's been
[04:56:26] Boomerang and on and off the list ever since which is just sort of crazy. Yeah, that's awesome
[04:56:31] You know, I think you know at the end of the day people just
[04:56:35] They just
[04:56:36] They take the book they read it and they pass it on to their friend and that's that's what it's all about that's why I wrote that book
[04:56:41] You know and so and so and so then you also started working with businesses started talking
[04:56:46] Yes, I was doing speaking engagements and that's what you're still doing yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I do I talk about
[04:56:51] I talk about you know my experience in the military at tell tell combat stories talk about leadership as well
[04:56:58] Servant leadership is you know this sort of the style that I stumbled upon
[04:57:02] And I talk about that talk about whether corporations and you know
[04:57:05] I've sort of started doing some executive coaching as well
[04:57:07] Which is sort of like I'm kind of like that. I just like dialogue like we're happened about leadership and stuff
[04:57:15] More than that is like having the opportunity to learn with people that are a lot smarter than me too
[04:57:19] You know so coaching is in a one way street you get to learn you know from each other and so it's it's great to be able to learn from some
[04:57:25] Leaders that have been able to hone their skills in the corporate world for a really long time and
[04:57:30] And I've got an on profit now where where well
[04:57:33] I'm I'm part of I say I'm I'm part of a non-profit now
[04:57:37] And that's American warrior initiative dot com yes, yes, yeah
[04:57:41] We're a little bit about that well. I mean so we are we're partnered with an amazing mortgage company fairway mortgage you spoke with their event. They're like
[04:57:50] They're right group. They're a group of people and look man people people don't realize how special that company
[04:57:54] Truly is and I mean it from a cultural leadership standpoint that they are a
[04:57:59] They are not like a bank, you know, they're not like bank of America well as fargo chase
[04:58:03] But they're the fourth or fifth largest mortgage company in the world precise because everybody wants to work for them
[04:58:10] Yeah, great you know
[04:58:11] Added to their just awesome ship. I mean I just love them. I love them and I've been working with them since
[04:58:17] I've been working with them since the book came out
[04:58:19] 2012 I met the CEO Steve Jake of some of that company had 638 people now the company has over 7,000 people. It's just awesome
[04:58:27] And so Jake just basically told Luis that's then who is my co-founder said look
[04:58:32] You know they served us now it's our turn to serve them figure out a program where we can give back take this
[04:58:38] Make something out of it Luis and Luis did and she brought me on and we've been doing it ever since and
[04:58:43] Give 100% over the pro seats and donations to veterans and now we sort of pivoted to give in away service dogs
[04:58:48] To vets and it's been awesome. It's been it's been an amazing thing just to be able to give back to people who have given everything
[04:58:56] And then at some point along the way you decided you're gonna write more books
[04:59:00] Yeah, yeah, I must have my shagrin. Yeah, I just told you about how the writing process is you know
[04:59:05] It's like you're like button for punished. It's like learning the right of bicycle without a seat
[04:59:11] While on fire, you know
[04:59:13] Yeah, you know I did I was so you wrote the first one that you wrote after outlaw was man of war
[04:59:18] Yes, these are these are now novels. Yes, they're thrillers. Yeah, so
[04:59:23] I always wanted to like I'm from Pittsburgh so like I'm a big stealer's fan my protagonist
[04:59:27] Hero's name is Eric steel and also also secretly like I had this brigade commander in Afghanistan in the 82nd Airborne
[04:59:33] Came in it was the name was Colonel steel STEL
[04:59:36] E and the guy who's like six eight
[04:59:38] Mass above Mike you know what man if I ever if I ever accomplished my dreams and start writing fiction
[04:59:43] You know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna name my protagonist steel because it works in a lot of different levels
[04:59:47] So I did and
[04:59:49] You know I just I just Eric steals background
[04:59:52] So Eric steals a former special forces guy former Greenberry his special forces team gets overrun
[04:59:59] in Afghanistan he's he's one of two survivors put in for the metal of honor
[05:00:04] The award itself has stopped and it's tracks and he's recruited for a secret
[05:00:09] Government program called the alpha program and
[05:00:13] The alpha program there's nine alphas at any given time in the world each responsible for a different geographic area of the world and it's based
[05:00:20] The alphas are basically the president's third option where you know all out war
[05:00:26] Diplomacy fails he's president since in an outfit it kick ass and take names and fix a situation and there's only nine of them
[05:00:32] Eric steals the youngest most talented operator and so man of war
[05:00:37] Throws Eric into a situation it's my first book through his Eric into an impossible situation against somebody that's an impossible enemy
[05:00:43] He ends up establishing himself and learning a very important lesson that most warriors learn in the battlefields
[05:00:48] It no matter how hard you try you can't save everybody you know
[05:00:53] Mostly the reason why I wanted to create this character is because I feel like
[05:00:57] You know
[05:00:59] Our culture in this genre specifically is a wash with like the anti heroes you know
[05:01:05] Bragged it yeah, you know
[05:01:08] He drinks a lot but he's got a heart of gold, you know like that guy, you know and I just wanted to create a character
[05:01:13] Who was good he was good to the core of his being and that good is exploited right and a number of different ways
[05:01:19] Bad guys find it sees upon it to exploit that there's the story they put him in impossible situations
[05:01:24] You know you choose between the Syrian woman being raped and the mission what do you choose right?
[05:01:30] But the reason why I did this and I wanted to create this characters because
[05:01:33] He embodies the greatness and the heroism of what I of the of the men that I witnessed on the battlefield these guys
[05:01:39] Deserve and they are I think our country do a certain extent deserves a mainstream fiction here with an embodies honor and
[05:01:46] Tegrety selfless as duty love of country and
[05:01:50] Love of the preservation of innocent life right I think at the core of the American warrior
[05:01:54] We are protectors and we are liberators right that's part of who we are and that's who he is as well and I think Eric steel
[05:02:02] You know he's he's the biggest fastest strongest smartest guy and often times he can you know
[05:02:08] He can save the woman in Syria has been raped and still accomplished the mission because he is who he is right
[05:02:15] But sometimes as you know in combat like there are impossible situations, you know where you have to choose very
[05:02:21] Literally between human life and the mission and
[05:02:25] Sometimes as leaders we have to make those calculations on a split second basis and so Eric steel is presented with those situations
[05:02:31] Time and time again in these books and the first book he is he figures out he can't save everybody and the second book the theme is
[05:02:37] You know and themes are oftentimes like in the background
[05:02:39] Maybe they're not consciously recognized as readers a fiction, but the theme is are you a man or are you a slave?
[05:02:44] You know and the villain that he faces in the book is like the bad version of himself
[05:02:48] That's been tasked out by the Russian government to find and kill and target enemies of of Russia
[05:02:54] And the villain that he faces it's like
[05:02:57] Second tired of being a slave so he's just gonna take the fight to everybody that he deems a king and Eric steel is sort of it's the same thing right like
[05:03:04] Eric steel was a servant to the United States and the difference is he's a servant not a slave and so that's the theme and
[05:03:10] No, I always try to
[05:03:12] Pit Eric steel up against villains that would be his greatest enemy and again
[05:03:16] Not unlike situations that's all just facing the battlefield all the time
[05:03:19] So that's the one that's coming out
[05:03:21] Yeah, all out war comes out on September. Oh, yeah, man of war came out last year third. Yeah, here's a little extra
[05:03:29] Because sometimes I just get fired up to read a little while you basically read half of out all but tune on the air
[05:03:35] And it was awesome. I'm like I want you read all my audio books now
[05:03:38] No offense to RC Bra who's epic, but you know
[05:03:40] You've got to think going there. I think you I think you could do it
[05:03:43] So we're digging into this this is all out war
[05:03:46] Flap steel dove behind the poojoan yank the high power from his waistband
[05:03:51] He crawled toward the engine block heart hammering in his chest at the realization that someone had just tried to kill him in broad daylight
[05:03:57] The metropolitan police didn't hide the fact that they installed cameras on every block
[05:04:02] The operated on the theory that if criminals knew they were going to be recorded they might think twice before breaking the law
[05:04:10] Whoever had taken a shot at him didn't give his shit
[05:04:13] Because instead of running away the shooter flick the selector switch to full auto and opened up on steel's hiding place
[05:04:20] Flap flap the poojo swayed onto the onslaught the car rocked on its hinges the bullets blasting
[05:04:26] Star shape holes through the aluminum skin as the shooter rake the car from stem to stern
[05:04:32] Steel's plan was to hit him on the reload
[05:04:36] But he never got the chance
[05:04:38] Before the shooter ran through his first magazine a second opened up the bullets cut across the hood
[05:04:43] Punching through the metal with the sound of rocks on a tin roof
[05:04:48] Steel judged that he had been under fire for less than 30 seconds
[05:04:51] But in a gunfight
[05:04:53] Time was subjective
[05:04:58] There you go you got a knack for this man. Yeah, yeah, well, I like you know
[05:05:02] I started this whole thing off about talking about the the way that time slows down
[05:05:07] Yes, and that's what I liked about this piece. It's like yes
[05:05:10] you someone that's writing this that actually understands that that understands what it's like to have
[05:05:17] Bullets cut you know hitting the roof like that's what I think makes these
[05:05:21] That's where the power comes from and these things, right? You've got the character that's truly good
[05:05:28] And you've got someone that's writing them that's been through these situations. So
[05:05:33] Yeah, I hope I mean I think people I mean people like these books so far. I'm right in a third one
[05:05:39] There's gonna be at least two more out
[05:05:41] And you know I just feel like this country we we talk a lot about
[05:05:47] We ask the question does America understand the metal of her warrior sons, right?
[05:05:53] That's a question I've asked myself since outlobitoon came out
[05:05:57] This character embodies all the greatest aspects of the warrior ethos that I witnessed in my soldiers on the battlefield
[05:06:03] And all of these books that the whole reason I write him is to help answer that question does America
[05:06:08] Understand the metal of her warrior sons, right?
[05:06:12] You know writing on fiction is one way right to do that to they could people can pick up out
[05:06:17] Lobitoon they can read it they can get a sense of what it was like on the battlefield boots on the ground
[05:06:21] A lot of people don't read nonfiction and fiction is another way another audience
[05:06:26] It's another way to get that those types of values in front of Americans to help them understand to help that bridge that cultural gap between
[05:06:35] You know veterans and
[05:06:37] Warriors in society and people and citizens who reap the blessings of freedom on a day-to-day basis
[05:06:43] You know it's all about reaching a wider audience and I think these books give people an opportunity to do that
[05:06:48] Yeah, no, well, that's
[05:06:51] Yeah, that's awesome. So
[05:06:54] We got the books people will get these books
[05:06:57] They'll definitely get out of law of the tune like I said I had read a fraction of it today
[05:07:01] You said I read half and I didn't even come close
[05:07:03] Um, but because there's so much more in there and I'll tell you what it was really hard for me
[05:07:08] To pick out what sections I wanted to read because so many sections
[05:07:12] There's so much information there not just about what happened in the experiences about about about leadership
[05:07:18] So yeah
[05:07:20] awesome books and
[05:07:22] I think I think you're gonna see some people
[05:07:25] Trying to get a hold of them what else you got the American Warrior initiative dot com is there like can you donate on that page?
[05:07:31] Yes, yes, and one of the things that our charity does is it gives you the opportunity to earmark your donation
[05:07:36] So if you want to donate for a service dog
[05:07:38] Pick a time and event that you want that money to go to and when we award the service dog you know that your money went to that dog
[05:07:44] So
[05:07:45] We just want to give people a sense that if they want to do a day-to-is and we're honored to have it
[05:07:50] We want to make sure that people are getting the best bank for their buck and we want people to feel like they're a part of it and
[05:07:56] Anything else on the horizon that we need to know about
[05:07:58] Well, no just my all-out wars coming out and and I think two weeks exactly right
[05:08:05] Just give the date what September September 3rd. Yeah, all-out wars coming out September 3rd. Yeah, you know, so
[05:08:13] I'm excited about that you know, I'm on I'm on Instagram official Sean Parnell on Twitter
[05:08:17] Sean Parnell USA and for your speaking engagements Sean official Sean Parnell dot
[05:08:23] Co dot co. This is a little trick. Yeah, right?
[05:08:27] So co's the new thing
[05:08:29] Co's the all the dot coms are taken so snatch up the dot co's while you can
[05:08:32] But of course I also own official Sean Parnell dot com as well
[05:08:36] But my website is official Sean Parnell dot co CEO yes, and so yeah, you can reach out to book me there too for speaking
[05:08:42] Yes, that is awesome. I think we've covered a decent amount
[05:08:47] I think we're going on five hours
[05:08:49] But the little number five hours. This was awesome
[05:08:51] Now that the record for the longest podcast all-out war speaking of all-out war echo Charles you know that we are
[05:08:59] Currently, you know us collectively in the crew here the kind of troopers own that we're kind of
[05:09:05] Within yeah, we're kind of conducting it all-out war on weakness on weakness. Do you have any you know
[05:09:12] kind of recommendations on how we could
[05:09:14] Press forward with the war on weakness. Yeah sure. Where do you got? Oh?
[05:09:18] Well a few things kind of hard to transition, you know we go through the you know through this heavy stuff which is heavy
[05:09:26] And now we're going to talk about I guess some more light-hearted stuff. He's got a knife to your throat
[05:09:32] Yeah, I'm sorry. You still should say we are five hours deep. Yeah, maybe this is one of our more abbreviated
[05:09:40] One of our more abbreviated, you know scenario. All right, so yeah, we can make it quick, but it's still one important, though
[05:09:46] Okay, so we're not gonna
[05:09:48] See you on the scene. Anyway, all right, we're against weakness. All right first step take jujitsu if you haven't already
[05:09:54] jujitsu I can do it. Yeah, I didn't the army. There you go. Hey, Russell. Oh, yeah, bonso
[05:09:59] Good girl. Yeah, so when you do jujitsu if you do gui which are we
[05:10:05] Collectively recommend gui and no gui you're gonna need a gui
[05:10:09] Well gui do we get origin or jingi made in America
[05:10:14] American cotton American
[05:10:16] Threads yeah all the way up to the gui boom. Yeah, so not not go cotton from somewhere else and then American made no
[05:10:25] American made America boom
[05:10:27] Origin kind of a big deal. So yeah origin main dot com if you ever want to come up
[05:10:32] We got a factory in Maine where resurrecting manufacturing in America
[05:10:38] Yes, we are we have
[05:10:40] 50 people up there at the factory building the best guis we started with guis, but guess what else we're making now
[05:10:46] Jeans t-shirts sweatshirts. We're making everything
[05:10:50] We're gonna rebuild this country from the inside out watch and in the meantime if you want to support you go to origin main dot com
[05:10:57] You know the stuff and not to mention supplements or if I say two mentioned
[05:11:02] Supplements yes supplements soul supplementation yeah for yeah for physicality if you will and
[05:11:09] Cognitive cognitive don't forget about that mental and physical. Okay. What do we got we got joint warfare
[05:11:16] Which joint warfare and cruel oil kind of brothers and sisters is for a supplement scope if you will cousins cousins either
[05:11:23] We're cousins they're related because they help support your joints which in my opinion has has kind of
[05:11:30] Sorted itself out to be the most important supplement we we agree from the ground up them keeps you in the game
[05:11:36] Yeah, I keep your joints good some cognitive enhanced discipline and discipline go
[05:11:41] So we got that going on we got milk
[05:11:44] additional protein additional put what what's your favorite flavor ice cream
[05:11:49] Sean Parnell cookies and cream cookies cream 100%
[05:11:53] Okay, we don't have cookies and cream whoa
[05:11:56] We got a look at what you know
[05:11:59] What's your second favorite ice cream flavor cookie?
[05:12:02] Do we have that either
[05:12:04] Some cookies
[05:12:06] We need to get some cookies
[05:12:07] Quarity some cookies in the game we all need some cookies do you like mint chocolate chip do you like can do mention
[05:12:13] That was a week the
[05:12:14] And I should do it the milk is for you. It's cool. Maybe more. It's for me
[05:12:18] I want it's good for me
[05:12:21] Shocked yes, we do have chocolate. We have strawberry which is amazing. We have peanut butter which is
[05:12:27] Equally amazing this strawberry might be a little amazing and then we have mint chocolate chip which is see this is what's nice
[05:12:32] If you would have started this supplement company guess what flavor you would have could be cookie cream
[05:12:38] Do whatever you just said. It's just yes. You started this supplement company. I did I guess what we have number one
[05:12:44] Mint chocolate chip. That's my favorite flavor. Is that your favorite flavor? Hell yeah number two peanut butter
[05:12:48] What's my second favorite? Yes, that's number two number three strawberry
[05:12:53] So we went right in the orders of things that I like now
[05:12:57] In your image if you're kind of on board with the program we can work on some cookies and cream
[05:13:01] Of course some on board. I mean I feel like cookies and cream is a very mainstream idea and concept
[05:13:05] It actually tastes I would agree with that
[05:13:09] It just sort of maybe slipped under the radar
[05:13:11] Because you like cookies and cream not not not not gonna buy it like actively
[05:13:15] So maybe I would it's odd that that shines like oh I can do mint chocolate chip
[05:13:22] Usually mint chocolate chip is either like oh man. I don't mess with the mint
[05:13:25] Chon that's just junk ore. That's my favorite. I feel like it's really polar like that
[05:13:30] Yeah, I feel like why go with mint chocolate chip when there are so many good chocolatey goodness tastes like chocolate regular
[05:13:36] Chockett or cookies and cream or cookie. Okay, look this may be none of topic we need to talk about our ex
[05:13:40] I'm starting to get a little bit you know frustrated at the whole thing
[05:13:44] People being anti I didn't chocolate. I know that is
[05:13:47] I got it in my opinion
[05:13:49] Let's go let's go so we get all that we got chocolatey also you've been drinking chocolate
[05:13:54] See this we know I have
[05:13:56] Drink like eight oh my god
[05:13:58] Amazing okay, I did a drink 14 of them that's like 14,000
[05:14:03] Grams of caffeine no
[05:14:06] There's a program per camp so yeah, so there's the antioxidants that's the thing that you felt kicking honestly
[05:14:13] I can feel the
[05:14:14] I'm kicking and it's like a super soldier serum. Yes. Oh, yeah, it's good way to put it
[05:14:19] So that's an origin main.com if you want any that stuff yeah also
[05:14:22] Jocco has a store it's called jocco store and this is where you can get more rash guards for
[05:14:28] Jujitsu and for a lot like I was looking on I think it was Twitter anyway
[05:14:33] Somebody who's using it for like a shooting competition rashguard for shooting competition
[05:14:38] For Jujitsu and for something else do so it's multi purpose is what I'm saying
[05:14:44] Also don't show store dot com yeah sure
[05:14:46] Tash guards trucker hats discipline equals freedom beans hoodies all that kind of stuff also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't
[05:14:54] Head not subscribe to it yet, which is just absolutely crazy, but as echo has proved to me
[05:14:58] Sometimes it happens and don't forget that we also have the warrior kid podcast
[05:15:03] You do warrior kid warrior kid podcast. I'd be perfect for that podcast because I'm basically
[05:15:09] I don't know what I want to be when I grow up. Yes, you you could you could pretend to be the 10-year-old that you are I am a
[05:15:15] Ten-year-old I have no issue I I could rock that podcast the warrior kid podcast and if you want to support the warrior kid podcast
[05:15:23] You can support a warrior kid
[05:15:26] Aiden who's making soap from goat milk
[05:15:29] Irish Oats ranch.com don't forget we have a YouTube channel if you want to see echoes legit
[05:15:35] Vig videos we also have psychological warfare if you need a little
[05:15:39] Spot psychological spot on your life
[05:15:42] Moment the week moments a weakness need to be overcome iTunes Google play MP3 of all kinds psychological warfare
[05:15:49] The artist's name is
[05:15:52] Jocco jocco will like
[05:15:54] Flipside canvas my brother Dakota Meyer makes things for you to hang on your wall
[05:15:59] Some people call art I call it things you hang on your wall and they say stuff that will keep you on the path
[05:16:07] So you can check that out. Dakota's amazing and those flipside
[05:16:10] Camsis are pretty cool. They are awesome. Yes, for sure. Yeah, 100% also on it on it dot com slash jocco this where you can get work out gear
[05:16:18] Some cool green supplements as well a lot of good stuff on there. That's where I get
[05:16:22] Pretty much not pretty much 100% my kettlebells and I got rings of course too
[05:16:28] That's work out. You're kidding on it dot com slash jocco and don't forget books we got some books we have outlaw
[05:16:35] Patoon we have man of war and we have all out war those are Sean's books
[05:16:41] Freakin get them I have a new book
[05:16:45] That has been unleashed into the world is called leadership strategy and tactics field manual
[05:16:49] It is available for preorder right now you guys know the deal you'll want that first edition
[05:16:54] Edgy know it
[05:16:56] You want to get that first edition otherwise when you come to a master in a year and you're like hey can you sign this and I
[05:17:03] If it's a first edition, be like yeah absolutely bro first
[05:17:09] Or if you have second edition, I'll say a cool y'all sign it cool whatever
[05:17:14] Obviously weren't in the game you weren't supporting
[05:17:16] We weren't trying to help us out so leadership strategy in tactics field manual you can preorder that right now
[05:17:21] way of the warrior kid three
[05:17:24] Way of the warrior kid two and way of the warrior kid one
[05:17:28] Get your kids on the path get your neighbors kids on the path your neighbors look at your neighbor
[05:17:32] He's out there not paying attention to his kids
[05:17:36] He's he's watching the game instead of out there getting after with his kids right don't let it happen you just just
[05:17:44] Just get an old Amazon box put put them in there and just put it on there like they just showed up
[05:17:49] You have to be involved in the trajectory of the lives of your children you have to be actively involved in engaged
[05:17:54] Yes, and sometimes you see someone that doesn't have someone right there's no one there man
[05:17:59] Maybe the dad's just working hard that happens. Hey, I know what dad that works hard this one. I was gone all the time
[05:18:05] And I would have loved to have had these books when my kids were younger, but I didn't so I wrote them
[05:18:09] So there you go way the warrior kid get the series also got a little kid who how was your youngest six six
[05:18:15] Oh yeah, we got Mikey the dragons for the little one is that a girl or boy?
[05:18:19] Oh boy, okay cool. Yeah, Mikey the dragons will we'll get that going on that's for the little bit younger
[05:18:24] Just a little bit younger than warrior kids you can order that one as well
[05:18:27] Dispening was freedom feel manual coming fear. That's what my gen the dragons. Yep, it is indeed
[05:18:32] Very helpful good yeah some people say it's a kids book
[05:18:35] Other people say it's for everyone
[05:18:37] Dispening was freedom field manual the way to get after it as a
[05:18:41] grown human
[05:18:43] But that one gets given to like 15 16 year old kids
[05:18:48] Yeah
[05:18:49] That are just need a little bit of or sometimes they're on the path that they want to stay on the path so yeah
[05:18:53] Dispening was freedom field manual that audio is not unordable
[05:18:56] It's it's an album with tracks
[05:18:59] MP3 whatever you get them extreme ownership and the dichotomy leadership the first two books that are wrote with my brother
[05:19:05] They've babbin and those are about taking all these principles that we talked about today
[05:19:09] About combat and how they applied leadership in the world
[05:19:12] We got echelon front that's my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership
[05:19:16] Go to echelon front dot com for details
[05:19:18] EF online this is where you can train your leadership
[05:19:22] In an interactive online situation because leadership training is not in an
[05:19:27] Occupation you don't learn it in one shot
[05:19:30] You got to study it you got to understand the principles like Sean and I were talking about earlier you got to understand the principles
[05:19:35] The only way you do that is by going through them over and over again and
[05:19:39] Getting put in scenarios
[05:19:41] Where you have to make decisions as a leader that's what happens in EF online we got the mustard
[05:19:47] Chicago's done
[05:19:49] Denver sold out sorry and then Sydney, Australia
[05:19:54] That's once December fourth and fifth that's the only one you have the opportunity to go to now
[05:19:57] So if you want to come and you missed the other ones come to Sydney, Australia go to extreme ownership dot com for details and we have EF overwatch
[05:20:04] Where we're taking proven leaders from spec ops and from combat aviation and placing them into companies in the civilian sector and since
[05:20:13] Communication is an important in the field you got to be able to communicate and in life
[05:20:16] You got to be able to communicate so if you want to communicate with us some more because five hours isn't enough to hang out with echo and Sean and jockel
[05:20:24] That just wasn't enough you need some more
[05:20:26] Sean is at
[05:20:27] Official Sean Parnell dot CO dot CO yep, his Twitter is Sean Parnell USA
[05:20:36] His Instagram is official Sean Parnell
[05:20:39] His Facebook is official Sean Parnell
[05:20:42] For echo and I we are also on Twitter on Instagram
[05:20:47] We're also on Dine frozen bifke
[05:20:50] Echo is adequate Charles and I am at jockel will like echo you've been very talkative today got anything else no I'm all talked
[05:21:00] Sean any any closing thoughts yeah, man. I'm just it's
[05:21:05] It's a blessing to come back from Afghanistan. I think like anyone that's been the war and come home
[05:21:12] Know's that every day you got to wake up you got to earn it every single breath
[05:21:15] Live a life worthy of the sacrifice of the people that you fought with over there and part of that means like
[05:21:21] Be in there for your kids and thank and God that I was able to come back and have kids and be able to
[05:21:28] Pass on that warrior generation and then these types of mindsets to them
[05:21:33] So I'm excited to take it back to my kids and be a dad and do cool stuff for them, you know
[05:21:40] Play some Pokemon you know
[05:21:42] I know you do that too, Jockel don't try to be tough. Oh, yeah, you didn't play Pokemon or you can teach him you know
[05:21:47] Jiu Jitsu and how to shoot a bow and arrow. I can do that too
[05:21:51] Don't judge me with your judging eyes
[05:21:54] Always judge always always watching shoot shoot about shoot about but a man seriously
[05:22:01] Thanks for coming on. I know people have been trying to set this up
[05:22:05] Over social media for a long time
[05:22:07] Four years and feel like it's been years it has been years
[05:22:11] I bet if we went back and did the research probably been a couple years that people have been trying to get you to come on here
[05:22:15] I've been just you know the doors been open and finally we were able to get you out here, which is awesome and
[05:22:21] Thanks for your service thanks to Outlaw Platoon Bravo company
[05:22:25] Second Battalion 87th Infantry Regiment of the famed 10th Mount Division
[05:22:33] Thanks to all you guys
[05:22:36] For your service and to the rest of our military members out there who face incredible challenges day in and day out and no matter what comes their way they look at it and they say
[05:22:49] We got this no worries
[05:22:51] Think about that America when you're lying safely in your bed at night and
[05:22:59] To our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service and all the first responders out there
[05:23:09] You all have that same attitude on our home front that you got this
[05:23:15] So thank you for keeping us safe and to everyone else out there
[05:23:22] Life can be rough and
[05:23:25] There are times that life can seem like
[05:23:29] Sustained combat operations, but in most cases
[05:23:32] There's no one trying to kill you. There's no one assaulting you in your team with a wide array of devastating weapons
[05:23:38] Looking to come and cut your head off
[05:23:40] But
[05:23:43] Whatever you are facing you can make it through and the best way to do that is to do what outlaw platoon did take the fight to the enemy
[05:23:53] Be default aggressive don't sit back and allow bad things to put you on your heels
[05:23:58] go on the offense
[05:24:00] Counter attack aggressively and get after it
[05:24:05] And until next time
[05:24:07] This is Sean Parnell and echo and jocco out