Jocko Podcast 190 w/ Dave Berke: Tolerance Can Be Your Greatest Risk. USMC Tactics Pt.4

2019-08-15T04:41:40Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:18:03 - MCDP 1-3. Final Chapters. 2:12:52 - Final Thoughts and Take-aways. 2:13:55 - How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collection... All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/joc... Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko Jocko White Tea: http://www.jockotea.com 2:42:06 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

oh you can strong point of building too long and that was something we'd see all the time in training was we'd we'd be attacking guys in an urban environment they would do the right thing in strong point of building and if they got bogged down in that building then they would get surrounded and they get picked off and they'd get slaughtered if they strong pointed that building they made a quick rapid plan on how they were going to break out of there they would do fine so they had to find that they had to find that balance the second way to pursue an advantage is through exploitation an offensive tactic that is designed to disorganize enemy in depth exploitation usually follows a successful attack that is created or exposed some enemy vulnerability for example an attack that is torn a gap in enemy defenses allows us to attack vital enemy areas the object of exploitation is not to destroy the combat forces directly opposing us even though they may be weakened instead the object is to disrupt the entire enemy system by attacking important activities and functions it's real easy to get distracted into the little tactical battle that you could win as opposed to looking at what's going on strategically and how you can attack you how you can disrupt the entire enemy system in desert storm there was I'm sure most people have heard of there's something called the highway of death and there was this string of enemy armored vehicles that went for miles and miles and miles up into into Iraq at a quay and that started and I don't know 100% of the story but it started with this formation of a fighter attack aircraft that under most circumstances you would hit that lead element that's the tactical smart thing to do it, presumption of the most amount of fuel it's the best for your weapons and they actually bypassed that lead formation and went all the way to the tail end of the formation so rather than just disrupt that where the point of attack was that that lead element where our forces had met their forces and they actually bypass that and went all the way to the tail end of that enemy formation and devastated that tail end and blocked the road and that allowed for the next 30 hours wave and wave and wave of aircraft to then pick off every other vehicle that had no place to maneuver by bypassing what seemed to be the most obvious answer which is that first line which they recognize this is our opportunity to shut this whole system down and that was the genesis of that is recognizing this is the area we need to explain and we're actually going to take it we're going to skip the tactical answer here and go all the way to the end of this formation and that created a route that the enemy couldn't recover from because they had nowhere to go because those guys saw the opportunity to do that at the very beginning of that campaign where is mostly I think you go to hit hit first element come back do it again and that gives them all that time to to to to recalibrate and do something different Continuing small unit training should focus on proficiency in such techniques and procedures as immediate action drills battle drills and unit standard operating procedures practicing to reach technical proficiency applies to all types of units whether a section of aircraft executing air combat maneuvers a maintenance contact team repairing a vehicle under fire and artillery gun team conducting displace materials or rifle squad conducting an in-stripe beach breach of an obstacle we develop and refine these measured measures so that units gain and maintain the speed and accuracy essential for success in battle staffs like units and individual leaders must train to increase speed and accuracy staffs increase speed by accomplishing three things first by obtaining and organizing information to help the commander and themselves understand the situation boy this is like every this should be printed on the walls of every staff organization in the US military second by understanding the commander's decision and core decision and coordinating efforts to focus combat power to achieve the commander's goal and third by monitoring events maintaining situational awareness and anticipating and and and and adapt and adapting to changes as staffs train they increase accuracy by becoming more proficient both in their respective areas and in functioning as a team that's what the staffs are trying to do and notice that if you're in a staff you better know what the commander's goal is you better understand what that intent is if you don't understand what that intent is if you don't understand that goal is you are completely lost and if you're commander and there's any doubt in your military mind what's so ever that your staff doesn't know what your intent is and what your goal is you better make it crystal clear field marshal Irwin Ramwell Ramwell knew the value of speed and accuracy for his staff when he wrote a commander must accustomed his staff to a high tempo from the outset and continuously keep them up to it if he wants allows himself to be satisfied with norms or anything less than an all-out effort he gives up the race from the starting post and will sooner or later be taught a bitter lesson allow yourself to be satisfied with the norms allowing anything less than an all-out effort you give up the race from the starting post that's what I'm talking about now can we burn people out absolutely yes can we burn ourselves out absolutely so you what you have to know what you have to learn and what you have to understand is you have to understand and learn when you're going to conserve energy and when you're going to go on the attack you know that's that's wrong talking and that sounds cool but trust me and I've seen it and we and I know you've seen it in the military plenty of commanders that they lose touch with their people and they just burn them out and they have horrible command climates and more important they're they become ineffective at executing their mission oh 56 years old 56 years old demanded that he be allowed to lead his man into that situation and and he was not he was not like a strong healthy 56 years old you want to know why he wasn't strong and healthy at the age of 56 because he was still having problems health major health problems from the wounds that he suffered in world war one so there you go there's the quotes these are quotes we listen to and going to the book reading and understanding the ideas in this publication are the initial steps on the road to tactical accident excellence reading and understanding boy they throw those words out they're really easy don't they reading and understanding as if it's like if you read you understand that is not true reading and understanding have almost nothing to do with each other reading and understanding that should be capitalized and italicized and in a different font reading and understanding the ideas in this publication are the initial steps such as the initial steps on the road to tactical accidents excellence the primary way a marine leader becomes an able tactician is through training and education both of which are firmly rooted in doctrine doctrine establishes the philosophy and the practical framework for how we fight education develops the understanding creativity military judgment and the background essential for effective battlefield leadership there is a lot to learn training follows doctrine and develops the tactical and technical proficiency that underlies all successful military action individual and group exercises serve to integrate training in education producing a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts the lessons learned from training and operational experience then modify doctrine doctrine next section doctrine establishes the fundamental beliefs of the Marine Corps on the subject of war and how we practice our profession doctrine establishes a particular way of thinking about war and our way of fighting a philosophy for leading Marines in combat a mandate for professionalism and a common language that is important this one of the things when we work with companies the common language part these companies know that they're making mistakes they don't know how do I properly identify what their mistakes are or what their issues are until we come in and then they said oh we're gonna pull back fine no factor no factor one works the other does not work here it this ability to finish the enemy once and for all derives from first from possessing an aggressive mentality second it stems from an understanding of the commanders intent third it stems from a keen situational awareness that helps recognize opportunities when they present themselves and understand when the conditions are right for action so again it's not 100% of the time it's when the conditions are right for action so those those are the three things first aggressive mentality second understanding the commanders intent third situational awareness so you understand if the actions are right next section use of the reserve in combat the reserve is an important tool for exploiting success the reserve is part of the commanders combat power initially withheld from action in order to influence future action the reason to create a maintain a reserve is to provide flexibility to deal with the uncertainty chance and disorder of war the reserve is thus a valuable tool for maintaining adaptability in general the more uncertain the situation the larger should be in reserve Napoleon once said that war is composed of nothing but accidents and a general should never lose sight of any everything to enable him to profit from those accidents these accidents take the form of opportunities and crisis and crises the reserve is a key tactical tool for dealing with both the commander should have a purpose in mind for reserve employment and design it to fulfill that purpose to truly exploit success may warrant a assignment of the commander's best subordinate unit or a preponderance of combat power or mobility assets to the reserve so sometimes you're you're reserved should be your strongest and most powerful element whether it's the best or whether it's the the one with the most combat power those commanders who properly organized task and equipped their reserves are usually the ones with the capability to finish the enemy when the opportunity arises when central recognized the value of a reserve when he wrote it is in the use and withholding of their reserves that great commanders have generally excelled after all when once the last reserve has been thrown in commanders the commander's part is played the event must be left to pluck and to the fighting troops and pluck as I can hold term for courage basically once you've put committed reserve you're you're done you made your move but then they're saying but whereas the cost of moral courage may be loss of friends popularity prestige and this is the more I find most interesting or career opportunities so what they are saying right there I mean obviously if my boss wants me to make a certain correct moral decision he's going to promote me but what they're saying in that statement right there that there are times when you will be making decisions that are morally correct that will actually hurt your career that's the statement or you will be at risk of hurting your career I can think of a thousand examples of this right off the top of my head from being in seal potions you know because you you want what happens to leaders sometimes in a seal platoon is they don't want it they're insecure about their leadership and there's something going on that they don't feel comfortable about but they don't have the moral courage to say anything and part of that is because hey they they say oh this is this shouldn't be happening and as soon as they say that they're drawn the spotlight on themselves and they're not really sure about themselves and all of a sudden they feel like if their boss is going to look at them like they don't know how to lead their men and now I'm not going to get promoted like that whole thing on once you know life just so we can survive the cold we're actually going to use it to destroy our enemies you talked about a little bit earlier about leaders that will just they'll lose side of what they're trying to do and and what they'll do they'll just push really hard and it's not that they're pushing harder than their other counterparts it's that they don't understand when and why they're pushing hard they don't know when they should build up the reserves and when they're so they just go hard because they know going hard we should go hard and it isn't that they're going harder and they burn them out it's that there's no connection to why they're going hard to what they're actually going to try to accomplish in that training and that disconnect of why they're doing what they're doing versus what they're doing and I've been in units where the leader just we just go hard and a lot of people are like what the hell are we doing and nobody knows and those units will fall apart before they actually exceed their physical capacity to do things or as other units can actually you can actually go harder if they understand why so that thing you really want to do if you can make the connection to the reason they're doing it you can go as hard as you want and it's not that going hard that burns the units out it's having no idea why they're going hard or when they should go hard those are the units that burn out here's where you can run into a problem with this attitude of rommels of hey and this is how they close out this little section a leader's self confidence is the well spring from which flows the willingness to assume responsibility and exercise initiative so every moment that you are cutting down a leader's confidence you are crushing their their willingness to assume responsibility take ownership and exercise initiative this is what you need them to do what you absolutely need them to do crazy and here's the conclusion in this publication we have explored themes that help us to understand the fundamentals and to master the art and science of tactics from the study of our war fighting philosophy we have gained an appreciation for their requirement to be decisive in battle to accomplish this we must clearly visualize the battle space gained through gained situational awareness recognize patterns and make decisions intuitively we have also discussed ways we can gain advantage over the enemy and force him to bend to our will we also explored how to be faster in relation to the enemy to adapt to changing conditions to cooperate for success to exploit success and to finish the enemy finally we discussed how we can begin to act on these ideas during our training for combat the ideas presented in this publication have implications far beyond a battle field tactics and the doctrinal way we think about warfare they also influence the way we organize using task organization and flexible command and control relationships and the way we equip ourselves for combat weging war in maneuver warfare styled demands a professional body of officers and marines schooled in its science and art when asked why the marines were so successful in operation desert storm general boomer replied the thing that made the big difference on the battle field is that we had thousands and thousands of individual marines constantly taking the initiative the young Lance Corporal would take a look see something 75 or 100 meters out in front that needed to be done and go out there and do it without being told as I read through the award citations from desert shield and desert storm this team reappears time and time again that aggressive spirit comes from being well trained and confident in your professional knowledge and here's how they close this thing out everything we do in peace time should prepare us for combat our preparation for combat depends upon training and education that develop the action and fought essential to battle and that wraps up MCDP one tack three tactics everything we do in peace time should prepare us for combat everything and let's just take that one step further that everything that you do matters it matters yeah back to the book exercise is also test the ability of units to sustain tempo for an extended period of time since victory is rarely the product of single actions the ability to operate and sustain combat effectiveness over time is important knowing when hostilities will cease is a convenience denied the combat Marine equipment must be maintained and people must be sustained with adequate rest, nourishment and hygiene until they accomplish their mission tactical exercises can range from field exercises to command post exercises to tactical exercises without field troops field exercises conducted by units of any size involved involve all unit personnel working together to learn test and refine their collective battlefield skills such exercises can be general in nature or they can be detailed rehearsals for specific upcoming missions command post exercises are largely limited to commanders and their staff their purposes to familiarize the staff with their commanders personnel personal preferences and operating styles as well as to exercise staff techniques and procedures to review a particular to review particular contingency plans so for those of you don't in the military sometimes the leadership the staff can rehearse and practice and do exercises as if there's a there's a there's a there move out of the field or working and even other not tactical exercises without troops provide tactical leaders opportunities to exercise judgment while permitting other unit elements to conduct training and education on their own there are there are two approaches to conducting them the first method provides a leader an opportunity to evaluate a subordinate's ability to perform in a given scenario boom scenario based training role playing you don't need anybody you don't need anybody in the field you can make it happen this method provides places students in an area of operations and provides a situation upon which to plan an executed task for example established a reverse slope defense the aim here is to exercise tactical proficiency in the sighting of weapons in the use of terrain the second method also places the student in an air operations and provides a situation but gives them a mission or a mission order for example prevent enemy movement north of route 348 the aim here is to exercise judgment after walking the ground the students must first decide whether to defend or it's exporting their conclusions with reasoning the reasoning is then discussed and criticized this approach encourages students to demonstrate ingenuity and initiative they have free reign to employ the resources as they see fit to achieve the desired results so just putting people in scenarios and then most equally important is discussing and criticizing and asking people why they're doing what they're doing why they made that decision figuring out how they're thinking and why they're thinking and then I was willing to be criticized I wasn't defensive about being criticized I was actually listening to their point of view as well it's not that hard it's just a little humility from leaders to go well would you see man why that's pretty good I didn't see it like that this conversation isn't that hard and they're free they're free next section war gaming war games can be a valuable tool for understanding the many factors that influence a leader's decisions morale enemy and friendly situations the higher commanders intentions firepower mobility and terrain are only a few of the decision factors included in the play of war games in all these simulations from the sand table to a commercial board game to a computerized simulation routine should be avoided the less familiar the environment the more creativity the student must display sand table exercises tactical decision games and map exercises present students with a general situation mission orders and a minimum of information on enemy and friendly forces sand table exercises are especially suited to novice tacticians they present the terrain and a three-durched dimensional array whereas a map requires interpretation both map and sand table exercises and able students to conceptualize the battle deliver their decisions and issue orders to subordinates afterwards students discuss their decisions and our critique the decision the discussion should focus on making a decision in the absence of perfect information or complete intelligence those are again these are things that are free free you can do with your business you can do with your team you can do with your platoon next section terrain walks terrain walks introduce the realities of terrain vegetation and weather terrain walks can be conducted in at least two ways the first method provides students with an area of operations a general situation and a mission as in sand table and map exercises students describe their view of the battle choosing one plan the group then begins to walk the terrain according to the plan the group will then encounter to un-inticipate terrain and obstacles while the instructors introduce enemy actions into the play of the problem in this way students must contend with the disparity between actual terrain and vegetarian vegetation and maps as well as the chaos and uncertainty generated by enemy actions that invariably occur in real world operations to just think of all the ways you as a business owner can employ that right there playing the bad customer playing the good customer well when you train you're going to make adaptations you're going to make assessments you're going to make adjustments then when you deploy an employee you're going to do the same thing you're going to assess where you're out what worked what didn't you're going to make adaptations then you're going to put that in the doctrine with a doctrine you're going to take that and educate people and you're going to continually assess and adapt and adjust what you're what you're teaching and what you're training on next section education while combat provides the most instructive lessons on decision-making that's an understanding of the year well combat provides the most instructive lessons on decision-making tactical leaders cannot wait for war to begin their education we must be competent in our profession before our skills are called upon the lives of our Marines depend on it our education and tactics must develop three qualities within all tactical leaders the first quality is creative ability tactical leaders must be encouraged to devise and pursue unique approaches to military problems no rules govern ingenuity see now this is not what people expect we did the disset we did we did the chapter on discipline and this seems to be completely counter to that that's why there's a dichotomy here but the number one quality to develop is creative ability and there's no rules that govern ingenuity the line separating boldness boldness from fool hardiness is drawn by the hand of practical experience that said an education in tactics must possess an element of rigor to often tactical discussions lack an in-depth analysis of cause and effect the tactically proficient leader must learn how to analyze solutions to tactical problems lacking such a rigorous analysis the tactician will not learn from experience nor exercise creative ability this applies to everything by the way it applies to everything anything that you're trying to learn you and I don't I don't know too much about that scenario from the air perspective but from the ground perspective you would think well the lead element is the one that you're most worried about they're the ones that are closest to friendly forces we need to go and eliminate them first and we'll go from there so to sort of bypass that is a a pretty bold decision to make continue on for example during operation desert storm in 1991 the armies tiger brigade was deployed by the second marine division as an exploitation force during the divisions final attack the brigade had the advantage over the Iraqis in speed fire power and night combat capabilities with these advantages the tiger brigade sliced deep into the rear of the Iraqi three core and sealed off the vital highway intersections north of al jara the result was total disruption in the Iraqi organized defense the third way to exploit advantages through pursuit a pursuit is an offensive tactic designed to cut off or catch a hostile force that has lost cohesion and is attempting to escape in order to destroy it if the intent is to bring about the final destruction or capture of the enemy forces then pursuit should be pushed with utmost vigor it is here that operations turn into routes and overwhelming victories often occur general grants pursuit of general ease Confederate army of northern Virginia from Peter's board from Peter'sburg to apomatix in April 1965 is a classic example of pursuit here grant pushed his forces to their limits in order to prevent leaves escape this ultimately led to the capture and surrender of these forces the Confederate armies lieutenant general Thomas J stone wall jackson summed up pursuit when he said strike the enemy and overcome him never give up the pursuit as long as your men have the strength to follow for an enemy routed if hotly pursued becomes panic-stricken and can be destroyed by half their number so you once you got them on the run run them down finishing the enemy ultimately we want to cultivate opportunities into a decisive advantage once we do we make the most of it marine cortex call for leaders who are strong finishers we must have a strong desire to go for the jugular I'm so thankful they put that in there because that's you know usually that's sort of like a like a ruffian comment to make right

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 190 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink. Good evening, echo. Good evening and
[00:00:08] Joining us once again is Dave Burke. Good evening, Dave. Good evening. The last three podcasts
[00:00:16] Dave has been on
[00:00:18] 187188 and 189 and we have been talking about the first six chapters the Marine Corps publication
[00:00:25] and called a one-tack three tactics and if you haven't listened to those three podcasts go start with those. You'll hear about Dave Burke and
[00:00:39] if you have listened to them then we're gonna continue on today. The last
[00:00:44] the last podcast of this series. Hopefully we can make it through the last two chapters chapter seven and eight. Marine Corps first-lutenant
[00:00:54] at the basic school time now. Are they listening and getting anything out of this particular series of podcast?
[00:01:14] Based on the number of messages I get from Lieutenant's TBS just talking about this podcast,
[00:01:19] they are listening in a way that and and learning things that I never learned when I was a TBS.
[00:01:26] The impact of this on the Marine Corps is huge because the fact that I listened to this stuff and looking at this manual totally
[00:01:34] differently than I did 25 years ago. There's just a different way to observe things through a different lens
[00:01:43] than your own and and when you're young hey man and listen any of those any
[00:01:50] first-lutenant at TBS right now I will trade places with you immediately. If I can do that I will
[00:01:57] trade places with you right now. I will I would give anything to be in that position. But
[00:02:05] so it's so so I'm not trying to disparage your situation in life. What I'm saying is when you're seeing this
[00:02:12] for the first time and you're 21 years old you just don't have the the breadth of experience to go oh
[00:02:19] I can I can relate to that and for me that's what learning is and I've complained about this before in
[00:02:24] schools in all schools. Every subject that you learn in school should be tied with the thread to
[00:02:31] every other subject that you learn in school because it is because everything that you learn about is
[00:02:36] tied to everything else. That's that that's the way it is. The science, the art, the literature, they're all
[00:02:42] into woven through history, through mankind and so what happens is if you can tie those threads together
[00:02:50] then you get a better understanding of what is actually what you're being taught. So what I like
[00:02:55] and what why I appreciate the fact that the young military person now whether in the ring or whatever
[00:03:01] service they're in they can take what your experiences is Dave what my experience and we can weave
[00:03:08] some other aspects of this information in so that so that people including me get a better
[00:03:16] understanding of of this knowledge because the knowledge is there. I mean the knowledge is there,
[00:03:22] the framework is there and I'll get to a point where I make a critique of this manual and the
[00:03:34] critique of this manual that I make is it's there's a level of simplicity one that they could
[00:03:39] make things a little bit clear and a little bit more simple a couple times. There's sometimes
[00:03:43] where I think it could be a little bit simpler and a little bit a little bit simpler a little bit
[00:03:46] a little bit simpler a little bit more straightforward to be honest with you that's what I think
[00:03:50] cover move simple prioritize next to you and decentralized command that is like the the based
[00:03:56] level of hey man this is what you need and then this all just builds so so perfectly on upon that
[00:04:06] and of course there's that's like one situation there's the other 80 the other 98% of this is where
[00:04:13] I look at it go yeah they wrote this way better than I ever could have then Dave then you
[00:04:18] ever like we just don't have and that's that's why even when I said the last podcast like I
[00:04:23] know there was there had to be one guy that was like overseeing this but the group of people that put
[00:04:28] this thing together they were good at what they did and they did a great job doing this so
[00:04:35] I'm glad to be able to talk about it I'm glad to be able to learn from it and it's amazing because
[00:04:43] I don't remember when I read this for the first time I don't know I know that and I was telling
[00:04:49] you this earlier Dave when I came back and wrote down the laws of combat for the first time those were
[00:04:57] look I absolutely I know I played jrized them from various places but they were
[00:05:06] but I didn't I didn't say oh this this comes from here cover move I know where I learned
[00:05:12] that from for the first time I learned it from Roger Hayden it's actually the first time I learned I was like
[00:05:15] oh okay well that's the first time I put it together I heard it before that's the first time I said oh that's
[00:05:19] what that actually means the simple thing kind of the same thing you know some of those old Vietnam guys
[00:05:25] you go to keep things simple you know prioritizing execute that's I had to put a word that I had to
[00:05:32] put words to that because I didn't have I'd never before I wrote that down I had never told anyone to
[00:05:38] do those things I said it in a million different ways I had to said it in a million different ways but I
[00:05:42] never said okay this is prioritizing actually that's what you need to do decentralized command obviously
[00:05:47] people been saying that for a really long time but for me the first time I wrote them down
[00:05:55] was when we got back from Ramadi and I didn't like I said I knew that I kind of plagiarized them
[00:06:01] but at the same time I couldn't point to the sources right I couldn't say oh yeah I took this
[00:06:08] from here I took that from here I couldn't it was a bunch of information that was in my head that it
[00:06:14] had been fermenting for a long period of time and then when I realized I had to teach this stuff I
[00:06:20] I needed to write it down in a distilled manner so so then and I was telling this this is the
[00:06:26] getting to the part that I was telling you I was telling you that once I wrote these four laws I was
[00:06:31] kind of like a little bit paranoid because here I am you know getting up on a pedestal and saying
[00:06:37] here's the laws of combat which is a really arrogant like statement to make right
[00:06:43] to say oh I've written the laws of combat like no like that's not what I'm saying and I
[00:06:51] questioned as I started putting them out to guys I started questioning okay how universities are these
[00:06:58] the right ways this is the right way to go is this the right thing to think about have I captured
[00:07:03] these correctly and one of the ones that I was most concerned about oddly enough because it's the
[00:07:08] most obvious one was simple was keeping things simple and and part of that reason was because
[00:07:13] man the planning had gotten so completely crazy and out of control in the seal teams and in the
[00:07:20] whole US military the 96 hour planning cycle it had just gone completely buck wild crazy and I as
[00:07:30] a being raised that way in the seal teams I had I was a little nervous about saying to myself look
[00:07:36] hey I've been told about all this detailed planning for the last 15 years 16 years 17 years
[00:07:43] of my life and now I'm saying no what you're going to do is keep it simple and so I started
[00:07:49] reading through some of these manuals that I had skimmed through that I had looked through that I had
[00:07:55] that I had looked down on if you showed me this manual if I read this manual when I was in E5
[00:08:01] and the teams are been like oh whatever man I'm in the teams you know that's I'm just being straight
[00:08:07] up that's what my attitude would have been as I started so so then when I refer back to them
[00:08:12] and I started going okay let me confirm some of what I'm saying and when I start with the so the
[00:08:17] first one that I really looked at was simple because I felt like oh I'm telling guys to be simple
[00:08:21] but is that really the right answer and I found that keeping things simple is a military maximum
[00:08:28] of war that has been around since the beginning of war since the beginning of war they've been
[00:08:35] saying hey dumbass you gotta keep things simple and then from there I continued to read these
[00:08:42] different perspectives these different manuals these different historical documents and just
[00:08:49] the same things just get repeated over and over and over again and that's that's why when you
[00:08:56] hear it from a different angle a different perspective and especially when that's this clearly written
[00:09:03] it's like yes this makes absolutely sense so when I say there's a little critique I want to make
[00:09:08] do I trust me I am not making a critique of like hey listen to me I know all of them saying is like
[00:09:18] I guess what I'm saying is this is where I think it fits together this is where I think
[00:09:22] you know being able to explain something to people from a different just a slightly different angle
[00:09:29] it's beneficial and there's be plenty of people that will go well you know jocquoise points okay
[00:09:33] but the Marine Corps tactic thing the Marine Corps manual explains it better and there's some
[00:09:37] people that will say oh you know the Marine Corps tactics thing makes sense but I actually
[00:09:41] received it better when I heard Dave say this or I heard jocquoise say that like that's so so
[00:09:49] when you take these things and you pars them and you look at them and you look at them from your
[00:09:55] viewpoint from my viewpoint all it does all it does is gives people a better understanding and
[00:10:01] what that understanding does is it gives you the ability to recognize these patterns and more
[00:10:05] in different places if you've got the humility to recognize that that point of view exists in a
[00:10:15] whole bunch of different places I read extreme ownership at the end of my career at the tail end
[00:10:22] of my career and what I learned from that at the time was significant but more importantly I've
[00:10:28] gone back and re-read that and seeing different things in it and I think the key more than anything is
[00:10:34] it actually doesn't matter which of those ones speak to you the right way it's the recognition
[00:10:40] that and it goes back to when you know the way broadly you see it and all things if the ability
[00:10:46] to to see something and read something and have that teach you something that you no matter
[00:10:51] how long you've been doing it whether you're a second attend to the Bayes League school or a
[00:10:54] colonel in the Marine Corps that you will find these lessons in these different perspectives in a
[00:10:59] whole bunch of different places and what required is the humility to recognize that you're going to
[00:11:04] learn things from a different perspective and if you keep an open mind when you're reading this stuff
[00:11:09] you'll go back if you're at Lieutenant at TBS you're going to read this one three and five years
[00:11:13] and it's going to say totally different things to you if you go in with that mindset of
[00:11:17] you're going to take something away from it different than the first time yeah and you know we
[00:11:22] talked about on the last podcast getting reps in right getting reps in you know in whether it's
[00:11:28] training whether it's you in an airplane maneuvering around the sky against an enemy with a wingman
[00:11:33] whatever you get reps in and you get reps in doing immediate action drills out in the desert or
[00:11:41] an urban environment you get reps in and then as a leader you get the reps in of oh here's
[00:11:46] something I don't recognize how can I put my recognition over what I'm looking at and how can I
[00:11:50] make a good decision you get reps in and the more reps you get in the better you get as you go
[00:11:55] through tactics and you start to think about it and you start to pick them apart and you start to
[00:12:00] hear them from different angles it's a rep and every rep you get makes you a little tiny bit better
[00:12:08] so when I hear the Marine Corps tactics manual talking about cooperation and I've been talking
[00:12:15] about cover move consistently for for a long time let me thank for 12 years 13 years I've been
[00:12:23] talking about cover move and yet they come in they call it cooperation it's the same thing but
[00:12:30] guess what I know it better now I have just a little bit more now I understand it I now understand
[00:12:39] cover move as cooperation and that's actually the way I describe it as I say cover move is teamwork
[00:12:44] they say cooperation is teamwork guess what same thing little bit different angle I now have a
[00:12:49] better understanding of it and that means I'm going to be able to recognize it in different places
[00:12:56] it where I might not have I might have seen it in 94 places out of 100 now on now maybe I'll see
[00:13:02] it in 96 maybe I'll see it 95 but I'll see it better I'll see it more clearly so no matter where you are
[00:13:11] in your on on the path no matter where you are on the path you're gonna you're gonna see more
[00:13:16] and this is something life and I've talked about we like the first master or no we didn't
[00:13:23] event with someone and then they came to the master and they said oh I really liked the way you
[00:13:29] changed the the the the laws of combat and life's like we didn't change we haven't changed anything
[00:13:37] doesn't matter fact this the slides that you saw are the same slides that you saw when you
[00:13:43] came to when we came to your company two and a half years ago or whatever but to your point
[00:13:48] what happened to that individuals his perspective change we didn't change but you're but that
[00:13:52] individuals perspective changes and that's what you know I always talk about the fact that Mike
[00:13:58] Cerrellie when Mike Cerrellie took over the junior officer course from life and I was going in there
[00:14:02] with each class and going through the laws of combat brief and on the ninth time I taught it
[00:14:09] when Mike Cerrellie was running hit and he pulls up a chair in the back and sits down with his
[00:14:14] notebook and I'm like bro you can sit through this again and he's like yeah and I said why
[00:14:22] Nigos because I learned something new every time and you know you talk about this a lot you
[00:14:28] talk about the fact that clients need repetition yeah and how often how often do you teach somebody
[00:14:35] about cover move or simple and they go oh cool god it it just doesn't happen no it doesn't and
[00:14:47] it doesn't happen for any of us and even if you do get it something sinks in it only sinks in a
[00:14:54] little bit and then you've got a nut and this is it's not just so you see to the note you can
[00:14:59] actually teach it different it's another way to explain the exact same thing knowing that the people
[00:15:03] working with you some will understand it when they see it this way some will understand it when they
[00:15:07] see it that that way and the more different ways you can explain it the quicker they learn to see it
[00:15:13] in all of the places that actually will help it really sink in I don't care who you are
[00:15:18] me included none of it sinks in the first time and even when it does sink in it's not the whole thing
[00:15:25] and to take this one step further so Jimmy Page my favorite I guess my favorite example of this
[00:15:33] is Jimmy Page the guitarist from Led Zeppelin arguably the the greatest rock and roll guitarist
[00:15:40] of all time who is incredibly beyond comprehension creative with that instrument the guitar
[00:15:50] the guitar the get box he was so creative but he was a studio musician for many many years and he was
[00:15:58] one of the best studio musicians in London which is no no small feet because London is a music town
[00:16:06] so he had this and when you're a studio musician you play the notes that they tell you to play
[00:16:11] then you play them how you how they're written on the page that is 100% discipline follow orders
[00:16:17] you do what you're told and then guess what once you have that those standard operating procedures
[00:16:24] down then you can take them and you you can get creative and you see the patterns where you know
[00:16:29] what else sees them so the same thing the same exact thing happens with the laws of combat the
[00:16:35] better you know them the better you can take and you can get creative you can creatively apply them
[00:16:43] to problems and and they overlay properly on those problems because you understand how to use
[00:16:50] them better so I mean I find that on the time we've been working for a long time or
[00:16:56] a client set of you know people that read the read the book ten times read read dichotomy
[00:17:02] leadership fourteen times they've listened to every single podcast and they'll be presented with
[00:17:07] a problem at their job and and the first thing they do is blame someone the first thing they do
[00:17:14] is is make a really complex solution it's like it's hard to do now and in different people
[00:17:21] learn a different rates because we've got clients I've got clients that could easily teach teach
[00:17:27] classes for echelon front because they're so good and their businesses doing great because they've
[00:17:32] come so far and they've absorbed so well and I will tell you right now the comment trait that
[00:17:38] every single one of those those high level upliers of the laws of combat to their business
[00:17:46] everything one of them is like the most horrible incredibly humble human that is like oh yeah
[00:17:52] oh well you know I went to this school and I've been doing this for this long yeah and it doesn't
[00:17:56] matter because I know I'm not a good leader and I'm gonna get better at it so that's the way to kick it off
[00:18:04] now don't go into the book one tack three tactics one on chapter seven chapter seven is called
[00:18:16] exploiting success and finishing here's some quotes it starts off with do not delay in the attack
[00:18:25] when the foe has been split off and cut down pursue him immediately and give him no time to assemble
[00:18:30] or form up spare nothing without regard for difficulties pursue the enemy day and night until he
[00:18:39] has been annihilated that's field marshal prince Alexander V suvar off who is a Russian general
[00:18:52] who fought against the Ottoman Empire who fought in the against the Polish uprising
[00:18:57] who fought in the Italian campaign the Italian campaign which was actually not a war against the
[00:19:03] Italian to his award against the French it was a war against Napoleon's army he never actually
[00:19:08] came face to face with Napoleon but he fought him and did very very well and that's where this
[00:19:12] next little quote comes from it says pursue the last man to the adda and throw the remains into the
[00:19:20] river same same guy field marshal suvar off and that's what he's talking about they fight in the
[00:19:30] French in Italy and what you do you presume to the adda river and then you once you've killed them
[00:19:38] you huck their remains into the river that's the level of finishing that we're talking about
[00:19:43] and then the last quote that they kicked us off is when we have incurred the risk of a battle
[00:19:52] we should know how to profit by the victory and not merely content ourselves according to
[00:19:56] custom with possession of the field hey just get in the field isn't good enough that's not good
[00:20:05] enough don't don't don't accept that and that's marista sacks who we've covered on this podcast podcast
[00:20:11] number one ten revaries on the arch of war disacks was a German soldier he was a he was a leader in the
[00:20:20] army the holy row roman empire and he ended up being one of the lead generals of France so
[00:20:29] nose what he's talking about and what he's talking about is just because you won the field not good enough
[00:20:34] keep going and here's how the marine corpus it it is not enough merely to gain advantage the
[00:20:42] enemy will not surrender simply because he is placed at a disadvantage the successful leader
[00:20:46] exploits any advantage aggressively and ruthlessly not once but repeatedly until the opportunity
[00:20:54] arises for a finishing stroke.
[00:20:56] Can we just stop the podcast there the successful leader exploits any advantage aggressively and
[00:21:06] ruthlessly not once but repeatedly until the opportunity arises for a finishing stroke.
[00:21:15] Yeah we must always be on the lookout for such opportunities whether we create them in
[00:21:22] whether we create them ourselves or they arise in the flow of action and when we perceive an
[00:21:27] opportunity to be decisive we must seize it. The application of marine cortex does not mean
[00:21:35] that we expect to win effortlessly or bloodlessly or that we expect the enemy to collapse just
[00:21:40] because we outmaneuver him it means we look for and make the most of every advantage and apply the
[00:21:46] decisive stroke when the opportunity presents itself. Building on the advantage once we have gained
[00:21:53] the advantage we exploit it we use it to create new opportunities we then exploit those opportunities
[00:22:01] to create others shaping the flow of action to our advantage this is so much jujitsu it's ridiculous
[00:22:08] I mean it's so much everything but the direct correlation to jujitsu is just crazy. Even small
[00:22:17] favoring circumstances exploited repeatedly and aggressively can quickly multiply into decisive
[00:22:23] advantages this is when you're rolling with Dean Lister and you give him part of one quarter of an
[00:22:30] inch of arm position and he gets it and you think well you know that no big deal it's just a
[00:22:36] quarter of an inch in arm position and then he exploits that small circumstance repeatedly
[00:22:42] and aggressively until he's got your arm he's ripping it off your body that's what I'm talking about
[00:22:49] we'll back to the book like the chess grandmaster we must think ahead to our next move and one beyond it
[00:22:58] how am I going to use this advantage to create another one for example and attack by penetration
[00:23:04] once we have created one advantage by punching through the enemy's position and getting to his
[00:23:08] rear we create another by pouring forces through the gap generating the expanding torrent
[00:23:16] that ladel heart root about you keep going relentless attack yeah and those those windows those
[00:23:25] opportunities not only are they fleeting like those are going to be seconds sometimes that that
[00:23:32] opportunity is actually there before he figures out a way to prevent that from happening
[00:23:37] all the other resources that you need to bring to bear for that have to be ready to go
[00:23:42] so these things that they're describing as simple as they're described look for an opportunity
[00:23:46] those windows are really really small and when you see them you might get one in an entire fight
[00:23:51] you might get one maybe two you have to have all those other things that you need to win
[00:23:56] ready to go and fill that unrelenting until the end they are making they're describing a very
[00:24:04] simple way but man that is to see that and exploit that to the finish yeah and I'm not
[00:24:13] to me sometimes the the people will talk about like how the importance of mindset right
[00:24:19] this is one of those things what you just said is like you have to have the mindset
[00:24:27] pre prior to the opening happening you have to be thinking as soon as I see this I am going
[00:24:35] and if you don't have that the split second that it takes you to look at it and go wait I think that's
[00:24:40] an opening I think I should go the the opuscon so having that proactive and pre-existing mentality
[00:24:51] of when I see this I'm going you see kids wrestling and shooting takedowns like that's what
[00:24:58] they're doing they are so pre-plan to once they do that set up and that that counter starts to take
[00:25:04] place and they see that boom they're in there there's no thought process going and if you think
[00:25:09] about it for one millisecond that opportunity to run. Ramo recounts how exploiting each advantage in
[00:25:21] the battle for cook in the Carpathian mountains during World War I led to another opportunity
[00:25:31] as his detachment exploited each situation and moved further behind enemy lines it generated
[00:25:36] more surprise and advantage during this action during this action rommel detachment captured
[00:25:41] thousands of enemy soldiers with very little fighting do largely to his unwillingness to lose momentum
[00:25:49] one success led directly to another opportunity which he sees immediately and that's from
[00:25:54] that's from rommel's book attacks infantry attacks which is a great book we haven't covered on here yet
[00:25:59] it's super tactical it is super tactical it is like talking about where to maneuver squads it's
[00:26:07] that tactical what's good about it when I covered on the podcast every section in that book has
[00:26:16] a little um a little italicized last three four paragraphs that explain what just happened like
[00:26:23] hey here's it's it's not quite like a full lessons learned it's not quite hey here's the let take away
[00:26:31] from this but it but some of them are pretty close so when I covered attacks infantry attacks
[00:26:36] on here probably do that but that's what we're talking about I'm not gonna slow down I'm not gonna stop
[00:26:43] the people and we work with companies and they have these really good business leaders that
[00:26:49] we're working with CEOs and guys are just in the game that's how they are that's how they are everywhere
[00:26:54] in their life everything in their life is like they are always looking everywhere in life for those
[00:27:00] little fleeting opportunities and they are so they are so triggered and ready to attack those positions
[00:27:07] when they reveal themselves it's and you talk about the mindset it when you see it done it impermeates
[00:27:13] all aspects of people's lives and they look for those windows everywhere and it's something you
[00:27:18] actually have to you don't want to look back on your life and think of all the times that you missed
[00:27:25] to attack whatever opportunity was there and think about how often that happens but just think
[00:27:31] about the guys that we work with the ones that are really good it's not just it work and they're
[00:27:35] like some different person it's like that all the time yeah and obviously what can we screw up here
[00:27:43] we can attack every old every soon that we see that's the dichotomy so the more experienced you
[00:27:49] are as a leader the better you can the better you can see the pattern recognition then you recognize
[00:27:56] what opportunities are good and what somebody asked me this the other day like you what
[00:28:01] opportunity how do you sort through all these opportunities you know and for me I definitely mean
[00:28:05] I get a lot of opportunities and which ones am I gonna invest time into what's the and here's
[00:28:10] here's what the answer is do they answer that question is okay how much investment is it
[00:28:14] going to take from me time wise because I don't have enough time to do everything that I want to do
[00:28:18] it makes me mad but I don't and so and then what's the return on investment going to be how is
[00:28:25] it interact and support every other thing that I've got going on because I'm not going to go and
[00:28:33] start some venture that's outside that doesn't positively support everything else that I'm doing
[00:28:39] yeah the pieces that fit in it everything else had made everything else better those are the ones
[00:28:44] that you have to attack on the ones that fit in everywhere else in your life yeah after the bought battle
[00:28:51] for Tahrua in November 1943 major Henry Crow commanding officer of second battalion in
[00:28:58] eighth Marines was asked why he thought the Japanese had been defeated so quickly once the Marines
[00:29:02] were established ashore he remarked that it was due to the constant pressure of naval gunfire
[00:29:07] bombs and mortars the Marines used their advantage in supporting arms to create opportunities for
[00:29:14] success that pressure put in that pressure on when you put the pressure on that's what creates
[00:29:21] the opportunity that's what you feel at one of the jitzie all day long and he was working me over
[00:29:28] on the mat yesterday constant pressure constant attack it was me just trying to fill in the gaps
[00:29:37] as they were opening up and how long can you fill in the gaps for you can't do it indefinitely
[00:29:43] because when you're filling in one gap guess what's happening another gap is opening up
[00:29:47] that's you got to be careful that that's going back to what we just talked about like if you
[00:29:50] try and fill gaps that don't that aren't good opportunities you're leaving other areas exposed
[00:29:56] and that's going to be a negative next section's called consolidation exploitation and pursuit
[00:30:04] once we have created leverage how do we take full advantage of it a decisive result or victory
[00:30:11] rarely stems from the initial action no matter how successful more often victories are the
[00:30:17] result of aggressively exploiting some relative advantage until one becomes decisive and the
[00:30:22] action turns into a route victories are the result of aggressively exploiting some relative advantage
[00:30:31] until one becomes decisive casually rates historically tend to remain constant and often
[00:30:38] fairly even until one side or the other tries to flee only then do significantly asymmetrical
[00:30:46] casualty rates commonly occur this exploitation of the enemy's bad situation can yield
[00:30:52] surprisingly great results we can take several specific types of actions to exploit opportunities
[00:31:01] we have created or discovered the first way we can exploit successes by consolidation
[00:31:07] as we consolidate our forces after seizing a position we intend to hold against the enemy here
[00:31:12] our aims are limited to protecting what we have already gained we must realize that by consolidating
[00:31:18] rather than continuing to force the issue we may be surrendering the initiative let's talk about
[00:31:23] holding position there are there may be any number of reasons for choosing this course perhaps
[00:31:31] we lack the strength to continue to advance our new gain may be maybe of critical importance
[00:31:37] and the risk of losing it out ways the advantages of any further gains perhaps the new gain
[00:31:41] itself grants a significant advantage for instance a position that provides excellent fires
[00:31:46] or threatens the enemy lines of communications may put the enemy in an untenable position perhaps
[00:31:54] the new gain compels the enemy to meet us on our terms for example we see as a critical piece of
[00:31:59] terrain with strong defensive qualities forcing the enemy to attack on unfavorable terms so
[00:32:05] there are times where you hold position where there are times when you strong boy you
[00:32:10] consolidate your forces you get everyone together you you you dig in there are absolutely times to
[00:32:17] do that and they say and if you do that too long that can stifle the the initiative and
[00:32:24] and I need I think about this sometimes is that and I I need to be more careful sometimes and
[00:32:29] I think about this even with clients that I work with every time I say something I know that
[00:32:34] there's a dichotomy to what I'm saying that there is no absolute and I sometimes forget to say
[00:32:39] and if you push too aggressively you can get to spread out every everything that's being said here and all
[00:32:46] the conversations we're having make by definition there is a dichotomy and all that you can go too far
[00:32:53] in any of these directions so as you read this and listen to these things and even the things that I say
[00:32:58] we don't always talk about what the dichotomy is but that's a perfect example hey we can
[00:33:02] consolidate that might be the right thing to do but if we do that too much we lose the advantage we
[00:33:06] have of how fast I would or our our tempo is and if we're too aggressive and get too spread out
[00:33:11] too thinned out down the line then that could be a problem too there's a dichotomy in every
[00:33:16] action that we can take as a leader and I know that in my head and I don't always articulate and say
[00:33:21] that but that's the way we should think in all the movements no matter how aggressive we're going to be
[00:33:26] to remember you can overdo all of this stuff yeah well that's one of the reasons we we wrote
[00:33:31] that dichotomy of leadership is because and when I first started talking about the dichotomy of leadership I
[00:33:37] would say it was because a lot of questions we got were about the dichotomy of leadership but the
[00:33:44] real reason we wrote it's because the answers are about the dichotomy of leadership yes and every
[00:33:50] and it's a it's a and and I talked about this already on this series upon cast that that
[00:33:56] the reason one of the things that brought the dichotomy of leadership to my brain was the fact that
[00:34:05] what was was I had to admit that I was wrong I had to say you know what being aggressive be
[00:34:11] aggressive be aggressive be aggressive and and then I realized that can be wrong oh you can be too
[00:34:18] aggressive yes you can oh you can strong point of building too long and that was something we'd
[00:34:23] see all the time in training was we'd we'd be attacking guys in an urban environment they would do the
[00:34:27] right thing in strong point of building and if they got bogged down in that building then they
[00:34:33] would get surrounded and they get picked off and they'd get slaughtered if they strong pointed that
[00:34:37] building they made a quick rapid plan on how they were going to break out of there they would do
[00:34:44] fine so they had to find that they had to find that balance the second way to pursue an advantage
[00:34:57] is through exploitation an offensive tactic that is designed to disorganize enemy in depth
[00:35:05] exploitation usually follows a successful attack that is created or exposed some enemy
[00:35:10] vulnerability for example an attack that is torn a gap in enemy defenses allows us to attack vital
[00:35:16] enemy areas the object of exploitation is not to destroy the combat forces directly opposing us
[00:35:22] even though they may be weakened instead the object is to disrupt the entire enemy system by attacking
[00:35:30] important activities and functions it's real easy to get distracted into the little tactical
[00:35:39] battle that you could win as opposed to looking at what's going on strategically and how you can
[00:35:44] attack you how you can disrupt the entire enemy system in desert storm there was
[00:35:50] I'm sure most people have heard of there's something called the highway of death and there was this
[00:35:55] string of enemy armored vehicles that went for miles and miles and miles up into into Iraq at a
[00:36:02] quay and that started and I don't know 100% of the story but it started with this formation of
[00:36:10] a fighter attack aircraft that under most circumstances you would hit that lead element that's the
[00:36:15] tactical smart thing to do it, presumption of the most amount of fuel it's the best for your weapons
[00:36:19] and they actually bypassed that lead formation and went all the way to the tail end of the formation
[00:36:26] so rather than just disrupt that where the point of attack was that that lead element where our
[00:36:29] forces had met their forces and they actually bypass that and went all the way to the tail end of
[00:36:34] that enemy formation and devastated that tail end and blocked the road and that allowed for the next
[00:36:42] 30 hours wave and wave and wave of aircraft to then pick off every other vehicle that had no
[00:36:49] place to maneuver by bypassing what seemed to be the most obvious answer which is that first line
[00:36:55] which they recognize this is our opportunity to shut this whole system down and that was the
[00:36:59] genesis of that is recognizing this is the area we need to explain and we're actually going to take
[00:37:02] it we're going to skip the tactical answer here and go all the way to the end of this formation
[00:37:07] and that created a route that the enemy couldn't recover from because they had nowhere to go because
[00:37:11] those guys saw the opportunity to do that at the very beginning of that campaign where is mostly
[00:37:16] I think you go to hit hit first element come back do it again and that gives them all that time to
[00:37:20] to to to recalibrate and do something different yeah especially and I don't I don't know too much about
[00:37:25] that scenario from the air perspective but from the ground perspective you would think well the
[00:37:29] lead element is the one that you're most worried about they're the ones that are closest to friendly
[00:37:33] forces we need to go and eliminate them first and we'll go from there so to sort of bypass that is a
[00:37:39] a pretty bold decision to make
[00:37:42] continue on for example during operation desert storm in 1991 the armies
[00:37:52] tiger brigade was deployed by the second marine division as an exploitation force
[00:37:57] during the divisions final attack the brigade had the advantage over the Iraqis in speed fire
[00:38:03] power and night combat capabilities with these advantages the tiger brigade sliced deep into the
[00:38:08] rear of the Iraqi three core and sealed off the vital highway intersections north of al jara the
[00:38:15] result was total disruption in the Iraqi organized defense the third way to exploit
[00:38:23] advantages through pursuit a pursuit is an offensive tactic designed to cut off or catch a
[00:38:31] hostile force that has lost cohesion and is attempting to escape in order to destroy it if the
[00:38:36] intent is to bring about the final destruction or capture of the enemy forces then pursuit should be
[00:38:41] pushed with utmost vigor it is here that operations turn into routes and overwhelming
[00:38:49] victories often occur general grants pursuit of general ease Confederate army of northern
[00:38:57] Virginia from Peter's board from Peter'sburg to apomatix in April 1965 is a classic example of
[00:39:08] pursuit here grant pushed his forces to their limits in order to prevent leaves escape this
[00:39:14] ultimately led to the capture and surrender of these forces the Confederate armies lieutenant general
[00:39:22] Thomas J stone wall jackson summed up pursuit when he said strike the enemy and overcome him
[00:39:30] never give up the pursuit as long as your men have the strength to follow for an enemy
[00:39:35] routed if hotly pursued becomes panic-stricken and can be destroyed by half their number
[00:39:42] so you once you got them on the run run them down
[00:39:53] finishing the enemy ultimately we want to cultivate opportunities into a decisive advantage
[00:39:59] once we do we make the most of it marine cortex call for leaders who are strong finishers
[00:40:05] we must have a strong desire to go for the jugular I'm so thankful they put that in there
[00:40:17] because that's you know usually that's sort of like a like a ruffian comment to make right
[00:40:24] it's usually said in a negative way like dude I can't believe you went for the jugular like
[00:40:29] the disproportionate response yeah yeah no no we're talking that's the right response
[00:40:34] that's what we're gonna do go for the jugular we must be constantly trying to find and
[00:40:40] create the opportunity to deliver the decisive blow at the same time we must not be premature
[00:40:47] in our actions oh they should call this the dichotomy of leadership we must not make the
[00:40:52] decisive move before the conditions are right yeah when you guys talk about the idea being aggressive
[00:40:59] though you describe it as you use the phrase default aggressive it doesn't say be aggressive
[00:41:04] 100% of the time there are times not to do that absolutely but really what this is talking about
[00:41:10] is the type of mindset you want to cultivate is that that's gonna be my default unless I have to
[00:41:15] I want to pull the reins back on my guys at the time to say no no this is not the time to do it
[00:41:19] I don't want to be in a position to say hey look change your default and get aggressive now and start
[00:41:24] pushing them into that breach so that that is actually right that's the default and then there are
[00:41:30] times if you're not not now because there's other things that play here that maybe you don't see
[00:41:34] and I might see from up here that they're pulling you into that we don't want to go in that
[00:41:37] direction but the default actually I want everyone of my guys to be aggressive and I'll pull them back
[00:41:43] as opposed to well I thought the best thing to do is hold off until you told me to go that's the
[00:41:49] default that will get you killed is is not being aggressive so doesn't say be aggressive 100% of
[00:41:54] the time but your default needs to be in that position yeah and what's what's the reason that's
[00:41:59] necessary is because the moment the split second that it takes to tell someone okay now we're
[00:42:07] gonna turn on our aggressiveness windows gone the windows gone and counter to that
[00:42:12] in the moment that it takes to tell someone hey actually we're not gonna do that they go oh okay cool
[00:42:17] it's not that big of a deal they didn't miss an opportunity they they they they started their
[00:42:21] exploitation and then they said oh we're gonna pull back fine no factor no factor one works
[00:42:28] the other does not work here it this ability to finish the enemy once and for all derives from
[00:42:35] first from possessing an aggressive mentality second it stems from an understanding of the
[00:42:43] commanders intent third it stems from a keen situational awareness that helps recognize opportunities
[00:42:49] when they present themselves and understand when the conditions are right for action so again it's
[00:42:56] not 100% of the time it's when the conditions are right for action so those those are the three things
[00:43:02] first aggressive mentality second understanding the commanders intent third situational awareness
[00:43:09] so you understand if the actions are right next section use of the reserve in combat the reserve
[00:43:16] is an important tool for exploiting success the reserve is part of the commanders combat
[00:43:20] power initially withheld from action in order to influence future action the reason to create
[00:43:26] a maintain a reserve is to provide flexibility to deal with the uncertainty chance and disorder of war
[00:43:33] the reserve is thus a valuable tool for maintaining adaptability in general the more uncertain the
[00:43:40] situation the larger should be in reserve Napoleon once said that war is composed of nothing but
[00:43:47] accidents and a general should never lose sight of any everything to enable him to profit from those
[00:43:56] accidents these accidents take the form of opportunities and crisis and crises the reserve is a key
[00:44:04] tactical tool for dealing with both the commander should have a purpose in mind for reserve
[00:44:14] employment and design it to fulfill that purpose to truly exploit success may warrant a
[00:44:19] assignment of the commander's best subordinate unit or a preponderance of combat power or mobility
[00:44:25] assets to the reserve so sometimes you're you're reserved should be your strongest and most powerful
[00:44:30] element whether it's the best or whether it's the the one with the most combat power those commanders
[00:44:35] who properly organized task and equipped their reserves are usually the ones with the capability
[00:44:41] to finish the enemy when the opportunity arises when central recognized the value of a reserve when
[00:44:47] he wrote it is in the use and withholding of their reserves that great commanders have generally
[00:44:54] excelled after all when once the last reserve has been thrown in commanders the commander's part is played
[00:45:04] the event must be left to pluck and to the fighting troops and pluck as I can hold
[00:45:10] term for courage basically once you've put committed reserve you're you're done you made your move
[00:45:17] and now you got to let it go you got to you you don't have much influence over it anymore
[00:45:25] and always important to keep that reserve strong always important
[00:45:33] financial reserve that's a big one to think about and we we deal with companies and they're
[00:45:38] weighing out the risk because sometimes like we need to go all in right now
[00:45:42] yeah and when you commit the reserve that can be the decisive moment back to the book a strong
[00:45:51] reserve is also way to retain the initiative if an advanced slows the reserve can increase
[00:45:57] moment if an advanced picks up speed the commitment of the reserve then can can then create
[00:46:02] around we may use the reserve to expand or exploit gaps or penetrations we may commit the reserve
[00:46:10] to attack in a different location thus exploiting opportunities for success instead of reinforcing failure
[00:46:17] without a strong reserve even the most promising opportunities can be lost
[00:46:24] a classic example of the use of reserve is the battle for tarua with the second and eighth
[00:46:31] marine regiments held up on the assault beaches general julian smith decided to land the sixth
[00:46:36] marine regiment the does the division reserve to break the stalemate the first battalion six
[00:46:42] marines which was task organized as part of the division reserve landed on the western end of the island
[00:46:48] passed through the third battalion second marines and from the flank conducted a swift and violent
[00:46:55] assault of the Japanese fortifications across the island within 48 hours the Japanese forces were
[00:47:01] annihilated and the island secured when you're training the gjitsu
[00:47:13] what you know what you consider what do you consider your reserve echo when you're training
[00:47:16] your jjitsu what do you mean energy reserve or yeah see that's what I think of yes
[00:47:22] so essentially athleticism is a reserve right where yes that's one reserve and one reserve you have
[00:47:29] is energy right how much energy do you have oh yeah no means do commit that yeah because let's
[00:47:35] face it if you commit your energy really early on against a fruitless attack yeah you're going to
[00:47:41] run on energy you're you're talking about a white belt right now you're talking about me that's
[00:47:46] what I know the most about is not I wish I knew it's that 30 seconds into it I'm too tired
[00:47:54] too exhausted I've overexerted myself when almost always my coach will when we'll replay it
[00:48:00] there was no reason to do it there was no thing that I was triggered and I like this is the time
[00:48:05] to to to apply my exertion yeah I mean that's what you're talking about someone who doesn't
[00:48:09] know when to when to do that and when they don't know they do it at all the wrong times
[00:48:14] yeah that's that's the way I feel when I roll I feel like I'm I have a good reserve
[00:48:20] yeah I feel like I maintain my reserves and I don't commit them unless it's time yeah
[00:48:27] yeah if you can consciously be aware and the other earlier on you are the harder it is for you to
[00:48:32] control it more than anything where like yeah your you know jockel your level is like you almost
[00:48:39] that even consciously can control that you know it's like it's almost like you're you're subconsciously
[00:48:44] triggered to like okay you know like this is maybe this this match or this this training whatever is
[00:48:49] heating up so let me maintain the reserves right now you know kind of thing you still use your
[00:48:54] technique yeah for sure when the guy is bringing it it's kind of like dang you got to fight
[00:48:59] his energy with your energy you're like okay I'm not gonna do that I might take a guard pass or something
[00:49:03] like that and save it till it tells it's ready to let it come on yeah man it's true and at the end of the
[00:49:09] day that's really the the reserve it's the reserve even if you say athleticism or strength or
[00:49:16] muscleing it because you're last it you effort all that takes energy yeah and that's essentially
[00:49:21] what you're using you even your good technique takes energy yeah yeah and let's face it if you
[00:49:26] had unlimited energy yeah then you would just win yeah I mean unless you're going to get someone
[00:49:31] that's just technically vastly superior to you yeah and when you're in a battle in a battle
[00:49:37] you've got one reserve and it is that energy the energy sometimes we must employ the reserve to
[00:49:45] deal with some crisis rendering it temporarily unavailable for commitment elsewhere in such instances
[00:49:51] a reserve should be reconstitute and is rapidly as possible so sometimes you got a scramble
[00:49:57] and move and use some energy and then as soon as you get to a good position or as
[00:50:01] as we should look for the opportunity to employ the reserve to reinforce success however we
[00:50:08] may employ the reserve however we employ we may employ the reserve we should always think of it
[00:50:14] as the tool for clinching victory that's also why you see a guy gets us gets a submission
[00:50:22] thinks let me revise that a guy thinks he gets a submission and expands all of his energy trying to
[00:50:30] clinch the victory expands all of his reserves you see this in MMA a lot too
[00:50:34] one of his spends all of his reserves has nothing left the person gets out of the the
[00:50:40] possible submission and the game is now the tides turn into this respect marshal foc
[00:50:49] who is a French general he was actually the supreme allied commander in world war one
[00:50:56] leading troops to victory at the mar in which I don't know man like every time I read like
[00:51:06] the background of a jen roller if someone is getting quoted I'm always like yeah there you go
[00:51:11] but when you were the in charge of all allies in world war one no offense
[00:51:16] I'm not super I'm not super stoked on what you have to say because because yeah anyways he
[00:51:31] wrote that the reserve is a club prepared organized reserved carefully maintained with a view
[00:51:39] to carrying out one act of battle from which a result is expected the decisive attack it is
[00:51:45] generally and then that's the end of his quote which I'm glad I said I wasn't too impressed with him
[00:51:51] because I wasn't impressed with that quote is that just my own bias do I hate world war one that much no it's
[00:51:56] because all the other things we've talked about in the last four podcasts about requirements to be
[00:52:01] successful in combat or almost all missing yeah the creativity all those things that you talked about
[00:52:08] the human wave advancement to steal 75 yards from the enemy only to give it up at sunset
[00:52:12] was none of those things so I had the exact same response on my mind
[00:52:17] well that quote so it is generally through offensive action even in the defense that we achieve
[00:52:23] decisive results since the reserve represents our bid to achieve a favorable decision or to prevent
[00:52:29] an unfavorable one it often becomes the main effort once committed and should be supported by all
[00:52:34] of their elements of force along with the tangible assets used as a reserve the prudent commander must
[00:52:40] also be aware of and plan for the intangible factors that impact on combat power and its sustainment
[00:52:48] intangible factors include fatigue that's number one I don't it doesn't say this is an order but that's
[00:52:55] number one and by the way that's what we've been talking about fatigue we've been talking about energy
[00:53:00] but the opposite of energy is fatigue so number one fatigue number two leadership quality
[00:53:05] no surprise number three proficiency number four morale number five teamwork number six equipment
[00:53:14] maintenance we build reserves also by reserving aviation swordie rates or numbers
[00:53:20] with holding unique or low density munitions or holding critical supplies such as fuel or petroleum
[00:53:27] oils and lubricants for a specific goal we consider these intangible factors when creating and
[00:53:34] tasking the reserve as we do in all assignments of task yeah indices again this is what businesses
[00:53:44] have to think about all the time because you do not know what the market is going to do I don't care who you
[00:53:50] are I don't care how long you've been doing this for you don't know what the market's going to do
[00:53:55] you can you have good suspicions that's great you don't know big difference yeah it's actually
[00:54:01] telling you to be extremely disciplined they use the term low density that just means something you don't
[00:54:07] have a lot of you know low density high demand items in the military are these really unique
[00:54:12] capabilities different times aircraft and weapons but you don't have a lot of them so you have to
[00:54:15] be really disciplined with their use so when the time is actually right to use them they're available
[00:54:20] to you to use them incredible concept these concepts apply not only to units initially designated
[00:54:30] as the reserve but also to any units since any unit can be shifted or recommitted as the reserve
[00:54:34] thus a commander must always be mentally prepared to redesign it roles of units and to create
[00:54:40] and use reserves as the situation requires I know what you know what's interesting is we see this
[00:54:47] we see these these businesses that end up eating other businesses is that the right word acquiring
[00:54:53] I guess but but basically when you get a business that maintains a solid reserve when opportunity
[00:55:02] reveals itself they're there to cash in yeah and buy other companies and take them over and then they
[00:55:09] come out of that you know if you don't maintain reserve the opportunity is there you can't exploit it
[00:55:17] same thing with your leadership capital right same thing with you as a leader if you sit there
[00:55:22] and you expend all your leadership reserve all your leadership capital you don't leave any reserve
[00:55:28] you have no more for lack of a better word you have no more favors to ask as a leader should you
[00:55:34] be asking favors you are asking for favors that's what every time you ask a subordinate do something
[00:55:39] you're asking for a favor that's what you're asking you're asking them to put their trust in you
[00:55:45] to do this thing that you want that's a favor and if you expend all your leadership capital you
[00:55:51] have no more favors to ask when the time is needed and you've expended those reserves you're
[00:55:56] not going to be followed anymore that's why relationships are so critical to all this I mean that's
[00:56:01] how you build up your that's your leadership reserve that's your capital that's your reserve force
[00:56:06] is how strong those relationships are so when the time is right you can cash in on that not that
[00:56:12] you cash in on them and and use them as some sort of expendable resources that you actually leverage
[00:56:17] that relationship and that recognition that you need to build that now you don't know when you're
[00:56:22] going to need it but you're going to need it and I say this answer the question all the time with
[00:56:27] companies about needing to real the crisis that you're dealing with now that's not you can't start
[00:56:32] there and if you haven't built it up the reality is there's really no answer I can give you
[00:56:37] because if you don't have anything in reserves it's very little you can do to leverage
[00:56:40] to try to solve this problem what you need to do is think about it well in advance and those
[00:56:45] strengths of those relationships from you contributing to them is how you have something left
[00:56:49] in reserve when you need it people want to know what to do get this all the time I'm flying against
[00:56:54] another aircraft he's directly behind me at a thousand feet and he's about to shoot his gun at me what
[00:56:59] I do might you know what there's not I know I'm a top-changer here but I don't have a lot of good
[00:57:05] answers for you you have nothing left available to to you to ask you to defend yourself against
[00:57:10] a situation the answer is you got to go back to the beginning uh which you can't do and people
[00:57:14] want the solution then and the solution is you you got to go back you got to build capital in
[00:57:19] other ways before you get to that position yeah that's like the how do you escape the rear naked
[00:57:23] choke yeah you know is it possible sure the other person can make a mistake you could you could
[00:57:30] do something but the bottom line is you get someone gets a legit rear naked choke on you or someone
[00:57:36] gets you in the triangle there's a there's a way to get out it's called submitting
[00:57:44] this is the conclusion of this chapter most decisive victories do not result from the initial action
[00:57:51] but from quickly and aggressively exploiting the opportunities created by that action
[00:57:57] we may find any number of ways to exploit tactical opportunity but they all have the same object to
[00:58:03] increase leverage until we find until we have the final opportunity to decide the issue once and
[00:58:10] for all in our favor a goal in marine cortex is not merely to gain advantage but to boldly and
[00:58:18] ruthlessly exploit that advantage to achieve final victory and now we will get to the
[00:58:27] eighth and final chapter of marine cortex and it is called you might think that these guys
[00:58:38] sitting around in a room writing doctrine would come up with more doctrine only doctrine sounding
[00:58:47] things things that things that they would come up with that in the in the halls of academia right
[00:58:54] you might think that what do they call chapter eight they call it making it happen that passes
[00:59:03] muster so making it happen chapter eight here's the quotes it starts off with nine tenths of
[00:59:08] tactics are certain and taught in books but the irrational tenth is like the king fisher flashing
[00:59:18] across the pool and that is the test of generals it can only be ensured by instinct sharpened by
[00:59:27] thought practicing the stroke so often that the that at the crisis it is as natural as a reflex
[00:59:37] and that's by T e Lawrence Lawrence of Arabia nine tenths of tactics are certain
[00:59:43] right well the irrational tenth there's a tenth of tactics that are irrational
[00:59:51] this is where you because this is why if you can't tap into that creativity if you can't train
[00:59:56] that creativity in your brain that's why you're not going to be successful well as you say you're not
[01:00:01] going to be eminently successful you'll be somewhat successful you'll be reliable and that's admirable
[01:00:07] it's good to be reliable but if you want to go next level you need to be able to be a little bit
[01:00:14] irrational at times to be able to handle their rational and the next quote is it cannot be too often
[01:00:25] repeated that in modern war and especially in modern naval war the chief factor in achieving
[01:00:32] triumph is what has been done in the way of thorough preparation and training before the beginning
[01:00:40] of the war which is which is what you were talking about Dave like why are you in that position
[01:00:48] and that's by by the way that's Teddy Roosevelt theodore Roosevelt president theodore Roosevelt
[01:00:54] rough writer theater Roosevelt metal of honor recipient theater Roosevelt who by the way his son
[01:01:05] Teddy Roosevelt junior metal of honor recipient d day you know old he was a d day you know old
[01:01:12] Teddy the young junior was on d day when he was present on the beach enormity
[01:01:20] oh 56 years old 56 years old demanded that he be allowed to lead his man into that situation
[01:01:31] and and he was not he was not like a strong healthy 56 years old you want to know why he
[01:01:40] wasn't strong and healthy at the age of 56 because he was still having problems health major health
[01:01:47] problems from the wounds that he suffered in world war one so there you go there's the quotes
[01:01:55] these are quotes we listen to and going to the book reading and understanding the ideas in this
[01:02:02] publication are the initial steps on the road to tactical accident excellence reading and understanding
[01:02:10] boy they throw those words out they're really easy don't they reading and understanding as if it's
[01:02:16] like if you read you understand that is not true reading and understanding have almost nothing to
[01:02:21] do with each other reading and understanding that should be capitalized and italicized and in a
[01:02:31] different font reading and understanding the ideas in this publication are the initial steps such as
[01:02:37] the initial steps on the road to tactical accidents excellence the primary way a marine leader
[01:02:44] becomes an able tactician is through training and education both of which are firmly rooted in
[01:02:50] doctrine doctrine establishes the philosophy and the practical framework for how we fight
[01:02:57] education develops the understanding creativity military judgment and the background essential for
[01:03:04] effective battlefield leadership there is a lot to learn
[01:03:10] training follows doctrine and develops the tactical and technical proficiency that
[01:03:18] underlies all successful military action individual and group exercises serve to integrate training
[01:03:24] in education producing a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts the lessons learned from
[01:03:30] training and operational experience then modify doctrine doctrine next section doctrine
[01:03:40] establishes the fundamental beliefs of the Marine Corps on the subject of war and how we practice
[01:03:44] our profession doctrine establishes a particular way of thinking about war and our way of fighting
[01:03:51] a philosophy for leading Marines in combat a mandate for professionalism and a common language
[01:04:00] that is important this one of the things when we work with companies the common language part
[01:04:07] these companies know that they're making mistakes they don't know how do I properly
[01:04:12] identify what their mistakes are or what their issues are until we come in and we start teaching them
[01:04:19] about cover move about simple but prioritizing executed about decentralized command about default
[01:04:24] aggressive they they they they know there's a problem but they can't put their finger on it
[01:04:29] and then once they once we come and they can put their finger on it and then they can talk about it
[01:04:35] in a common language that's like the initial foothold in victory is actually being able to
[01:04:41] communicate with each other about what the damn problem is doctrinal development benefits from our
[01:04:49] collective experience and distills its lessons to further education and training our doctrine
[01:04:56] within the Marine Corps begins with the philosophy contained in Marine Corps doctrinal publication
[01:05:03] one which is called war fighting which we covered on this podcast early on that was one of the
[01:05:08] earliest ones I covered and that's the reason because that one is a good solid foundation
[01:05:15] a good solid philosophy for doctrine for war fighting this publication underlies this philosophy
[01:05:22] underlies publications in the Marine Corps war fighting publication series that contain tactics,
[01:05:27] techniques and procedures for specific functions the body of thought helps form marine
[01:05:33] tacticians through its implementation in education and training now they have this little
[01:05:39] diagram then there's been some other diagrams which I didn't really try to explain too much because
[01:05:44] you can get the book it's free it's a PDF but this one has it has this loop the loop has
[01:05:51] education it has training it has operational employment it has doctrine and they all so you you get
[01:05:56] educated you go train you employ operationally that operational employment becomes doctrine the
[01:06:03] doctrine is what we teach on so so there's the doctrinal development cycle and what I added
[01:06:10] into this little thing is that in between each of those steps you adapt you assess and you adjust
[01:06:20] so that's what's happening you educate and as you educate then you go train well when you train
[01:06:26] you're going to make adaptations you're going to make assessments you're going to make adjustments
[01:06:29] then when you deploy an employee you're going to do the same thing you're going to assess
[01:06:33] where you're out what worked what didn't you're going to make adaptations then you're going to put
[01:06:36] that in the doctrine with a doctrine you're going to take that and educate people and you're going
[01:06:39] to continually assess and adapt and adjust what you're what you're teaching and what you're training
[01:06:45] on next section education while combat provides the most instructive lessons on decision-making
[01:06:54] that's an understanding of the year well combat provides the most instructive lessons on decision-making
[01:07:00] tactical leaders cannot wait for war to begin their education we must be competent in our
[01:07:05] profession before our skills are called upon the lives of our Marines depend on it our education
[01:07:13] and tactics must develop three qualities within all tactical leaders the first quality is creative ability
[01:07:25] tactical leaders must be encouraged to devise and pursue unique approaches to military problems
[01:07:31] no rules govern ingenuity see now this is not what people expect we did the
[01:07:39] disset we did we did the chapter on discipline and this seems to be completely counter to that that's
[01:07:46] why there's a dichotomy here but the number one quality to develop is creative ability and there's
[01:07:55] no rules that govern ingenuity the line separating boldness boldness from fool hardiness
[01:08:04] is drawn by the hand of practical experience that said an education in tactics must possess an
[01:08:09] element of rigor to often tactical discussions lack an in-depth analysis of cause and effect
[01:08:15] the tactically proficient leader must learn how to analyze solutions to tactical problems
[01:08:20] lacking such a rigorous analysis the tactician will not learn from experience nor exercise
[01:08:26] creative ability this applies to everything by the way it applies to everything anything that you're
[01:08:32] trying to learn you should you should you should focus on this attitude of really truly doing
[01:08:40] in-depth analysis and in making sure that you're not just learning how to apply the techniques as
[01:08:47] they were taught but how to apply them as they were not taught creatively the second quality is military
[01:08:58] judgment which includes the skills for gaining situational awareness and acting decisively
[01:09:04] the tactician must readily recognize the critical factors in any situation enemy capabilities
[01:09:11] whether terrain characteristics and the condition of our own forces to mention just a few
[01:09:16] marine leaders must be able to cut to the heart of a situation by identifying its important elements
[01:09:21] developing a sound plan and making clear decisions our educational approach should emphasize the
[01:09:27] ability to understand the mission issue clear intent and determine the main effort now for all the
[01:09:34] first lieutenant's at the basic school in all the other young officers and nco's that are out there
[01:09:43] when they talk about the tactician must readily recognize the critical factors in any situation
[01:09:50] I promise you that if you want to be able to do that what you need to learn how to do is to detach
[01:09:57] from the situation is to take a step back when there's enemy capabilities that you have to understand
[01:10:03] when there's terrain when there's maneuvering elements that you need to understand and recognize
[01:10:12] you will not be able to do that if you are staring down your a-cog or staring down your iron sites
[01:10:18] or you've got your helmet pressed up against your radar in an F-18 you will not see what you need to see
[01:10:28] so learn to detach get your head on a swivel take a step back this will make you
[01:10:38] infinitely better than the same you if you're sucked into your weapon system the
[01:10:52] sir the sooner you learn the ability to do that the amount of it leadership advantage you have
[01:11:00] by being able to do that in the most difficult situations is it's I don't have the words it's not
[01:11:06] even fair it's not that's right it's not even fair you will be head and shoulders and the reason I
[01:11:14] I say that with a little funny tone is because I remember I had a guy that was in TU bruiser
[01:11:19] and he was a platoon commander and I was putting him through training and it was like some scenario
[01:11:25] unfolding and I was like I was like bro come here I'm like just just come with me over here
[01:11:33] over here was like six inches away and I'm like look around and it was so obvious I'm like hey man
[01:11:40] if you can be one inch if you can be one inch at altitude above everyone else you can see
[01:11:52] you can see a thousand times more what they can see a thousand times more so if you want to be
[01:11:59] able to have that situational awareness you have to learn how to detach the third quality
[01:12:10] is moral courage moral courage is the ability to make and carry out the decision regardless of
[01:12:16] personal cost it is different from and rarer than physical courage the cost of physical courage
[01:12:26] may be injury or death whereas the cost of moral courage may be the loss of friends popularity
[01:12:32] prestige or career opportunities the burden of conflicting responsibilities in combat
[01:12:40] responsibility for lives of subordinates support for peers loyalty to superiors and duty
[01:12:45] to nation can be heavy our educational efforts should lead potential leaders to work through
[01:12:51] the proper resolution of such conflicts in peace time leaders often need to make morally
[01:12:59] correct decisions in combat but there will rarely be time for deep moral or ethical
[01:13:05] contemplation on the battlefield now what's interesting about this is first of all they say
[01:13:12] it's rarer than physical courage and then it says the cost of physical courage may be injury or death
[01:13:18] to to most people that sounds like the worst things possible but then they're saying but
[01:13:24] whereas the cost of moral courage may be loss of friends popularity prestige and this is the
[01:13:31] more I find most interesting or career opportunities so what they are saying right there I mean
[01:13:40] obviously if my boss wants me to make a certain correct moral decision he's going to promote me
[01:13:46] but what they're saying in that statement right there that there are times when you will be making
[01:13:53] decisions that are morally correct that will actually hurt your career that's the statement
[01:14:00] or you will be at risk of hurting your career I can think of a thousand examples of this right off
[01:14:06] the top of my head from being in seal potions you know because you you want what happens to
[01:14:13] leaders sometimes in a seal platoon is they don't want it they're insecure about their leadership
[01:14:18] and there's something going on that they don't feel comfortable about
[01:14:23] but they don't have the moral courage to say anything and part of that is because hey they they say
[01:14:28] oh this is this shouldn't be happening and as soon as they say that they're drawn the spotlight on
[01:14:32] themselves and they're not really sure about themselves and all of a sudden they feel like
[01:14:37] if their boss is going to look at them like they don't know how to lead their men and now I'm not
[01:14:40] going to get promoted like that whole thing on once you know life and I were talking yesterday
[01:14:47] and you know he was like hey you told me as he was saying that I told him like if you don't
[01:14:56] do this you're failing as a leader and and what he realized was much of what life
[01:15:03] Babin had in his head was correct but he just didn't really have the confidence yet to say
[01:15:12] to implement you know to implement it until I was like hey man if you allow this to happen
[01:15:19] that that's actually you being a bad leader whether it was you know and I'm just talking about anything
[01:15:24] any anything that you dis you you know what's right you know what's wrong or at least you have a
[01:15:29] strong suspicion okay you know what this doesn't seem right to me but I'm not really convicted of it
[01:15:33] so I'm just not going to say anything I'll just let it kind of let it go and that is wrong and that's
[01:15:39] what takes this moral courage to step up when you're going to be unpopular when you're going to be
[01:15:47] the guy that says hey guess what we're not going to do that and in the team there's a lot of it is
[01:15:53] you're you're a pussy you're a wimp if you don't if all you just need to get on board what we're doing
[01:15:59] that's no actually I don't what we're actually going to do what the right thing is here legally
[01:16:06] most of the catastrophic events that I saw in my career weren't on the battlefield weren't
[01:16:12] getting beat in combat or out maneuvered by an enemy most of the catastrophic events were teams
[01:16:18] squadrons what have you that had leaders that allowed those things to happen and build over time because
[01:16:24] they were afraid to get involved and eventually something catastrophic would have it inside that team
[01:16:29] that ironically ended up being a reflection of their leadership anyway so the thing that they're
[01:16:33] most afraid of was what culminated anyways reflection of their leadership allowing those
[01:16:39] questionable ethical behaviors those questionable ways that we allow our Marines to behave
[01:16:44] out in town or or even in the space out of a fear of doing what seems to be unpopular or being
[01:16:51] what you're just described those are the ones when I saw squadrons suffer you talked about
[01:16:58] steel potatoes getting disbanded things like that it wasn't because they were getting beat
[01:17:04] at the point of friction in combat it was that things had happened inside the organization
[01:17:08] that leadership tolerated and ended of leading to what they were afraid of in the first place anyway
[01:17:12] which was the they were viewed upon as a leader who couldn't lead their team and the greatest risk
[01:17:19] that I saw in leadership in the Marine Corps was allowing the people around you to behave in ways
[01:17:23] that you knew were wrong but the fear of looking on part are being unpopular by getting involved in
[01:17:30] those things because they weren't cool or whatever they were we're the undoing of the more
[01:17:36] leaders in the Marine Corps than anything that ever did in an airplane or as a commander in some sort
[01:17:40] of tactical situation so I went through this and to be quite honest with you I cheated
[01:17:54] I pulled them a newver on my troops that allowed me to come at this from an angle that they
[01:18:04] could not argue with and when I used to teach the young officers I called this the Trump card
[01:18:11] the Trump card I had the Trump card in my back pocket if you wanted to argue with me that you wanted
[01:18:18] to do this thing or do this behavior or or act in a certain way you wanted to do that and what
[01:18:27] you were saying was hey jocco you're kind of a pussy because you don't want to do this or you're
[01:18:33] not going to allow this or you don't want us to act in that in that way my Trump card was
[01:18:41] real simple and real straightforward and a 100% of the time it was the ace of spades and what I
[01:18:47] would say to guys is so what you're saying what you're saying is you would rather do this behavior
[01:18:53] and risk getting in trouble and not go to war not go to combat because you rather do this behavior
[01:19:01] if that's where you're at fuck you I don't want you on my team I don't want to be associated with you
[01:19:08] I'm here to go to war I waited my whole life to go to war that's what I was born to do and to have you
[01:19:14] put that possibility at risk because of because you want to do some behavior one night one little thing
[01:19:21] that you want to do and you're talking to me like I'm a bitch you're a bitch don't don't even bring that
[01:19:28] up to me again that was my Trump card I got a text the other day from one of the guys that you
[01:19:35] still work for me and he said he said hey I was thinking about what you told us about behavior
[01:19:45] and he said this little quote to me I told him I said if any of you do anything that prevents us
[01:19:54] from going to war I will never forgive you and I will hate you forever and I laughed for you
[01:20:03] because I don't remember everything that I said but that right there that's to me as the ultimate
[01:20:10] Trump card oh you'd rather you'd rather go out and get drunk than go and fight al Qaeda that's what
[01:20:17] you rather do you that's what you're telling me right now and who can argue with that you can't argue
[01:20:24] with that and and you know what guys wouldn't argue with that the team guys when you know what they want
[01:20:30] to do they want to fight and go to war okay there's some there's a small percent of course
[01:20:35] that don't really want to do that but the guys that were with me that's what they wanted to do
[01:20:39] so that right there is the Trump card and it's the truth the the absolute truth I don't care
[01:20:50] about anything else there's enemy there's bad guys there's there's a group of human beings on this
[01:20:57] planet that want to destroy our way of life and I would I have the opportunity to go and hunt them
[01:21:02] down and kill them and you're going to take that away or you're going to put that in any kind of
[01:21:06] risk effort not happening not happening moral courage next section and effective leader willingly
[01:21:21] takes on the risks which come with military responsibilities in that light the greatest failing of a
[01:21:27] leader is a failure to lead two steadfast rules apply first in situations clearly requiring independent
[01:21:37] decisions a leader has the solemn duty to make them whether the subsequent action succeeds or fails
[01:21:46] the leader has made an honorable effort the broad exercise of initiative by all Marines will
[01:21:52] likely carry the battle in spite of individual errors so you make a call and look if you mess up a
[01:22:02] little bit don't worry there's 250 other Marines that are making decisions and they're going to
[01:22:07] the majority of those decisions are going to be okay so we got you second in action and omission
[01:22:16] based on a failure of moral courage are much worse than any judgment error reflecting a sincere
[01:22:24] effort to act so not doing anything is like the mortal sin errors resulting from such moral failings
[01:22:38] lead not only to tactical setbacks but to the breakdown of faith in the chain of command
[01:22:43] proper training education and concern leadership are the keys to instilling the qualities
[01:22:49] of creative ability military judgment and moral courage in the minds of all Marines
[01:23:00] next section training good tactics depend upon sound technical skills
[01:23:06] these are the techniques and procedures which enable us to move shoot and communicate
[01:23:14] I made a little note here move shoot and communicate in the team is that way you always here
[01:23:19] I hear backwards right you hear shoot moving communicate right I believe that is correct Marine Corps
[01:23:27] please adjust this we need to shoot first we need to put down cover fire so we can move we're not
[01:23:34] going to move shoot and communicate we're in a shoot move and communicate that's what we say in the
[01:23:37] teams I'm pretty sure that's what the Marine Corps means as well we achieve technical competence
[01:23:43] through training we build skills through repetition training also instills confidence in weapons and
[01:23:48] equipment it develops the specialized skills essential to functioning in combat
[01:23:53] one of the ultimate aims of training is speed essential to speed is the requirement for accuracy
[01:24:01] speed without accuracy may be counterproductive and causes more damage than an then in action
[01:24:08] whether Marines compute firing data practice rifle marksmanship or weapons gunnery
[01:24:14] rearm and refuel aircraft repair vehicles stock or transport supplies or communicate information
[01:24:21] the speed and accuracy of their actions determine the tempo of the overall force
[01:24:27] training develops the proficiency which enables this effective combination of speed and accuracy
[01:24:37] all the things you're talking about here this is this is really the first time this tactics
[01:24:43] gets into tactical components of the things these individual Marines are supposed to do
[01:24:47] but something this that was mentioned earlier that that set the stage on this was what this
[01:24:53] pulls from the first doctrinal pub in the Marine Corps is pub one one tack one is called
[01:25:02] warfighting and that is the unifying thing that ties every Marine together
[01:25:09] is the understanding that you and it's really all the things you've just been talking about
[01:25:13] you are here as a war fighter first of all why would you do anything why would you
[01:25:19] expand any energy or take any action to do anything that could potentially undermine your ability to
[01:25:25] do that whether it's get drunk on a Friday night because it's it's what the dudes are doing
[01:25:32] what the bros are doing to do anything they would undermine but it's also the common belief
[01:25:38] system that we all have that that's what we do we are here to fight wars period and every single
[01:25:46] thing I'm going to do whether it's putting gas in an airplane pulling the trigger or memorizing
[01:25:52] have a logistics train whatever it is you are here to be a war fighter and the only way any of
[01:26:00] this works is that common belief that all Marines have that that's why you're here and that's
[01:26:04] what you do and it guides every single thing you do but without that first understanding of what
[01:26:10] it is that we are none of this other stuff works you can't get to pub two and pub three and pub six
[01:26:15] if you don't understand what it is that we are and that's I think that's why they were describing
[01:26:20] all those are the things polls from that overwriting understanding of what you are and now what
[01:26:28] we're fighting tactically it could take a thousand different forms as a thousand different things
[01:26:32] tactically you can do to be a war fighter just think it's how many organizations we work at where what they
[01:26:41] do is the thing that they do I do logistics I do more but they don't actually understand what they
[01:26:49] are and the tactical application of what you do unless you understand what that fits into it doesn't
[01:26:56] doesn't do anything in the end. I think the idea of war fighting being what we do is sort of driving
[01:27:02] everything is the coolest it's the coolest thing. Yeah and it's one of those things as you just said
[01:27:08] if that thread gets lost by someone that's out working on vehicles if that thread gets lost by
[01:27:14] someone that's delivering fuel if that thread gets lost by someone that is computing firing data
[01:27:22] then the whole thing all fall apart and that's the same in any organization if we lose track of the
[01:27:29] underlying theme and thread of what it is we are trying to do we can fall apart and who's responsible
[01:27:39] for making sure that happens that that that that that doesn't happen that we understand what our
[01:27:43] underlying core mission is that's oscillator's. Continuing small unit training should focus on
[01:27:55] proficiency in such techniques and procedures as immediate action drills battle drills and unit
[01:28:03] standard operating procedures practicing to reach technical proficiency applies to all types of
[01:28:09] units whether a section of aircraft executing air combat maneuvers a maintenance contact team
[01:28:15] repairing a vehicle under fire and artillery gun team conducting displace materials or rifle
[01:28:20] squad conducting an in-stripe beach breach of an obstacle we develop and refine these measured
[01:28:27] measures so that units gain and maintain the speed and accuracy essential for success in battle
[01:28:35] staffs like units and individual leaders must train to increase speed and accuracy
[01:28:40] staffs increase speed by accomplishing three things first by obtaining and organizing
[01:28:46] information to help the commander and themselves understand the situation boy this is like
[01:28:53] every this should be printed on the walls of every staff organization in the US military
[01:28:58] second by understanding the commander's decision and core decision and coordinating efforts to
[01:29:03] focus combat power to achieve the commander's goal and third by monitoring events maintaining
[01:29:11] situational awareness and anticipating and and and and adapt and adapting to changes
[01:29:18] as staffs train they increase accuracy by becoming more proficient both in their respective
[01:29:24] areas and in functioning as a team that's what the staffs are trying to do and notice that if you're
[01:29:33] in a staff you better know what the commander's goal is you better understand what that intent is
[01:29:39] if you don't understand what that intent is if you don't understand that goal is you are completely
[01:29:42] lost and if you're commander and there's any doubt in your military mind what's so ever
[01:29:48] that your staff doesn't know what your intent is and what your goal is you better make it crystal clear
[01:29:58] field marshal Irwin Ramwell Ramwell knew the value of speed and accuracy for his staff when he
[01:30:04] wrote a commander must accustomed his staff to a high tempo from the outset and continuously
[01:30:10] keep them up to it if he wants allows himself to be satisfied with norms or anything less than
[01:30:19] an all-out effort he gives up the race from the starting post and will sooner or later be taught a
[01:30:28] bitter lesson allow yourself to be satisfied with the norms allowing anything less than an all-out
[01:30:41] effort you give up the race from the starting post that's what I'm talking about
[01:30:50] now can we burn people out absolutely yes can we burn ourselves out absolutely so you what you have
[01:31:00] to know what you have to learn and what you have to understand is you have to understand and learn
[01:31:05] when you're going to conserve energy and when you're going to go on the attack you know that's
[01:31:10] that's wrong talking and that sounds cool but trust me and I've seen it and we and I know you've seen
[01:31:18] it in the military plenty of commanders that they lose touch with their people and they just burn them out
[01:31:25] and they have horrible command climates and more important they're they become ineffective at
[01:31:32] executing their mission yeah that's the real problem continuing this speed and efficiency of a unit
[01:31:41] to depend not only on the technical proficiency of its individual members but also in large part
[01:31:47] upon its cohesiveness such cohesion requires both personal personality and solid leadership
[01:31:56] training should also prepare marines for the uniquely physical nature of combat
[01:32:01] living in caring for themselves in a Spartan environment confronting the natural elements
[01:32:07] and experiencing the discomfort of being hungry thirsty and tired are as essential in preparing
[01:32:13] for combat duty as any skills training the point is not to train individuals on how to be miserable
[01:32:21] but rather on how to be effective when miserable or exhausted yeah think about that for a second
[01:32:28] we're not going to do this so we can survive these difficult environments we're going to do this
[01:32:33] so we can thrive and take advantage of these situations the cold in Korea we're not going to train
[01:32:40] to for that just so we can survive the cold we're actually going to use it to destroy our enemies
[01:32:47] you talked about a little bit earlier about leaders that will just they'll lose side of what
[01:32:52] they're trying to do and and what they'll do they'll just push really hard and it's not that
[01:32:55] they're pushing harder than their other counterparts it's that they don't understand when and why
[01:32:59] they're pushing hard they don't know when they should build up the reserves and when they're
[01:33:02] so they just go hard because they know going hard we should go hard and it isn't that they're
[01:33:07] going harder and they burn them out it's that there's no connection to why they're going hard
[01:33:11] to what they're actually going to try to accomplish in that training and that disconnect of
[01:33:15] why they're doing what they're doing versus what they're doing and I've been in units where the
[01:33:19] leader just we just go hard and a lot of people are like what the hell are we doing and nobody
[01:33:23] knows and those units will fall apart before they actually exceed their physical capacity to do
[01:33:29] things or as other units can actually you can actually go harder if they understand why so that
[01:33:34] thing you really want to do if you can make the connection to the reason they're doing it you can
[01:33:38] go as hard as you want and it's not that going hard that burns the units out it's having no
[01:33:42] idea why they're going hard or when they should go hard those are the units that burn out
[01:33:47] here's where you can run into a problem with this attitude of rommels of hey we're just going to
[01:33:51] go harder 100% all the time you don't know you're not you're you're utilizing your reserves out of the
[01:33:56] gate that's what you're doing and so that's a problem and what the the problem is
[01:34:00] where we're a leader is even more inaccurate in their assessments than they think
[01:34:12] is that it's the it's the idea that I've talked about of the the guidance leading PT
[01:34:19] and when you're leading PT PT is kind of fun because when I'm leading PT I guess what we're doing
[01:34:25] we're doing pull ups because I'm good at pull ups right that's what we're doing and so we're
[01:34:30] doing new autonapulups and if you're not good at pull ups PT sucks for you and by the way
[01:34:34] I didn't tell you when we were going to stop it and tell you how many were doing I'm so good
[01:34:37] doing pull ups you should be happy because I'm happy and so you miss you miss calculate
[01:34:44] how much the guys can actually take and there's a decent chance that they can't take as much as you
[01:34:50] because they're not leading it that's why when you put subordinate leaders in charge it allows
[01:34:55] you to more closely and accurately judge how much they can actually take and by the way they'll push
[01:35:00] harder if they're running it that's a thing that'll actually go harder they'll give you more if you
[01:35:06] let them run with it if you think you're going to lead from the front and and whip them to keep
[01:35:13] up with you you're wrong you will not get the same mileage out of them as you will if you say hey
[01:35:18] you take this and run with it so be careful they're young first lieutenant ramo out there
[01:35:25] back to the book likewise training should enable us to take appropriate action in any environment
[01:35:32] and at any time this readiness includes operating during inclement weather and periods of limited
[01:35:39] visibility we must make terrain weather and darkness our allies if we are to gain advantage and deliver
[01:35:45] decisive force at a time in place of our choosing we can neither anticipate nor appreciate the inherent
[01:35:52] friction that these natural factors produce unless we experience them.
[01:36:00] Next section training and educational methods that's such a that's here that's boring title number
[01:36:06] one that's the only that's the first boring subsection we've got training and educational methods
[01:36:13] okay I don't know we expect a little bit of higher standards
[01:36:16] there is no single best approach to developing tactical proficiency however any approach should be
[01:36:25] adaptable to all echelons and grades the environment should be one that is challenging and conducive
[01:36:31] to creative thinking like all preparation for war training should reflect the rigors of that environment
[01:36:38] the following examples may provide some tools for developing tactical proficiency in marines.
[01:36:48] 1. Professional Reading and Historical Study
[01:36:51] because of the relative infrequency of actual combat experiences in most military leaders careers
[01:36:56] marines must seek to expand their understanding through other less direct means the study of
[01:37:02] military history is critical to developing to developing judgment and insight in enables us to see
[01:37:09] how successful commanders have fought through and fought through the situations they faced
[01:37:17] not many people can do it instinctively few possess the rare native ability to think militarily
[01:37:25] even those few can enhance their abilities through study and practice what general matters say about
[01:37:32] the thing the whole time the game matters just all I was thinking about in the last two minutes was
[01:37:36] matters yeah and he said he said that every situation he saw yeah it's seen it before
[01:37:41] yeah he wasn't afraid of any situation because he had prepared for that's right that whole time
[01:37:45] yes just his approach to personal personal library of 5,000 books and you you take 5,000
[01:37:54] and and I imagine that when Mattis reads them he's reading them with this incredible depth
[01:38:02] yeah not as a homework assignment it's not a homework assignment he's not 21 year old first
[01:38:06] lieutenant David R. Burke saying okay well I gotta read this before I can go grab a beer with the
[01:38:12] boys what am I enabling learning objectives so I can write him down real quick so I can move on to
[01:38:16] something yeah no he's reading that with the level of death and understanding that he not just
[01:38:21] that but he puts them all together he wasn't afraid of any situation because he had prepared for
[01:38:26] every possible situation that was out there through study of history because guess what the
[01:38:30] stuff has all happened at least one other time before and maybe twice you know what I've admitted to
[01:38:36] a couple times in the recent past and you've been with me when I've admitted to it there's nothing
[01:38:43] that I like more than something that I didn't expect or that seems problematic or chaotic
[01:38:49] that's what I want like that's that's when I that's when my that's when my adrenaline just
[01:38:57] gets a little bit of a really because when I've seen it 90 million times it's like cool I'm down
[01:39:03] like what will handle this problem but man I like it when something comes at me that I'm not expecting
[01:39:08] I love that I've loved that for a long time and part of the reason is because it's just an experience once
[01:39:16] again it's an it's an it's an opportunity to put some of that creative muscle to work and that's fun
[01:39:27] continuing on historical studies provide the most readily available source of indirect experience
[01:39:32] in our profession these studies describe the leadership considerations the horrors of war the
[01:39:38] sacrifices endured the commitment involved the resources required and much more as if that's not enough
[01:39:47] and much more these studies include biographies and autobiographies of military figures books on
[01:39:54] specific battles wars and military institutions unit histories after action reports films and documentaries
[01:40:00] group discussions help to expand the insights into leadership and battle that we have gained
[01:40:05] through individual study and this is a solid 98% of what this podcast is biographies autobiographies
[01:40:15] books on specific battles wars military institutions that's what we do here and like
[01:40:23] Lidel Hart said when you study about war you're gonna learn about life that's why
[01:40:31] so many people listen this podcast that aren't first lieutenant's or kernels or generals
[01:40:37] they listen because they go oh yeah I can take that same theory and apply it to my business to my
[01:40:42] family to my life professional readings and study are not solely the responsibility of military
[01:40:50] schools individuals cannot afford to wait for attendance at a military school to begin a course of
[01:40:56] self-directed study military professionalism demands that individuals and units find time to
[01:41:03] increase the professional knowledge through professional reading professional military education classes
[01:41:09] and individual study it's on you no you cannot wait for your battalion your regiment your squadron
[01:41:21] to train you you cannot wait for them and if you wait for that you are just wasting so much
[01:41:30] opportunity to be so much better at this job tactical exercises tactics tactical success
[01:41:42] evolves from the synthesis of training and education the creative application of technical
[01:41:47] skills based on sound judgment exercises enable leaders to practice decision making and
[01:41:53] individuals staffs and units to practice perfect collective skills exercises also serve to test
[01:42:00] and improve tactics techniques and procedures immediate actions battle drills and combat
[01:42:06] standard operating procedures and by the way I've been changing state the it keeps saying
[01:42:11] standing operating just saying standard I'm saying standard rewrite this thing and exercise
[01:42:21] should serve as a units internal assessment of the quality of its training and education and
[01:42:26] not as grading criteria for higher commands oh that's a nice little thing we're not grading
[01:42:32] you for higher commands we actually just want you to learn like you know those schools where they say
[01:42:39] will you not gonna get graded here and it sounds super lame and it looks like awesome well think about
[01:42:44] if you if you said look what what I really want you to do here is learn and I remember saying that
[01:42:48] when I was running trade it'd be like listen man I just want you to be ready for combat that's what
[01:42:52] I want about I'm not looking to to to write you up or anything I just want you to be ready for combat
[01:42:58] bro that's what I want like if that could have been a good introduction to Lieutenant Dave Burke
[01:43:04] is like listen we don't worry about where you're gonna break out in this class what I want you
[01:43:10] to do is learn and understand what we're saying to you it's hard to do that it's hard it's so
[01:43:17] hard to do that I think of how many things that I gaffed off early in my career simply because I
[01:43:24] didn't understand that it was gonna make me better I just didn't make the connection of my mind
[01:43:29] that doing this not the motions but actually listening and learning to whatever it is that they were
[01:43:34] teaching me would make me better and more successful if you told me that there was a it was a competitive
[01:43:40] thing there was a ranking and a grading and an measurement that you were gonna get I'm all in man oh yeah
[01:43:46] I'm all in why would not but the number of things that I was I just and I know how many
[01:43:53] young leaders are out there listening not just in the military and the business were all two
[01:43:56] young leaders are listening to this I ignored so many early in my career it just took me a while
[01:44:05] to figure that what you just just got I just didn't understand it and I wish I could go back and tell
[01:44:09] second Lieutenant Burke just pay attention yeah just pay attention this is gonna pay dividends
[01:44:14] you're gonna be able to cash in on this down the road and your peers are gonna wonder what the hell
[01:44:19] is going on with you because you're gonna be so far out in front of where they are if you just pay
[01:44:24] attention this stuff one of the things that you can do to make that happen in my opinion is you
[01:44:30] you actually have to try and put yourself into the scenario that you're being that you're being taught
[01:44:37] that you're reading and I'll tell you you can hear it when I'm when I'm reading when I'm reading
[01:44:44] with the old breed man my brain is there it is there when I'm reading one source work when I'm reading
[01:44:55] the coldest colder than hell when I'm reading excursion in hell my brain my mind is there I'm
[01:45:02] putting myself right there that's what I'm doing when you get taught something when you hear something
[01:45:11] put yourself there put it into put it into your world and put yourself into that world
[01:45:18] being able to do that the earlier you can start doing that the better comprehension you will
[01:45:25] receive from whatever it is that is being bestowed upon you and that that's it's hard to do
[01:45:34] it's hard to do and now I go talk to the young the young seals and nowadays I mean oh
[01:45:43] you can see the kids that are listening because they are absorbing and they are in it you can
[01:45:53] see it in their on their face and there'll be a couple there'll be a couple that are they're just
[01:45:58] not there they're like oh you know I have to listen to another person talk right now yeah and
[01:46:05] that there'll be a that's usually a pretty small number but then the guys that are just
[01:46:10] they're they're absorbing what you're saying it's like they're gaining actual experience okay
[01:46:17] is it actually there's no it's like they're gaining such a closer approximation of experience
[01:46:24] than the person that's sitting there going oh I got to take notes so I can get do good on the
[01:46:29] quiz it's because they've made the connection and I remember avoiding stuff like this because
[01:46:34] I don't have the time for it if you actually make the connection think of how much faster it
[01:46:39] goes and how much easier it is to go through it when you actually make that connection to you
[01:46:43] and what it is you're trying to learn it's easy and the avoidance of that and the and the
[01:46:48] resistance to doing it is the thing that actually makes it more difficult than it needs to be
[01:46:55] and that's that's what I did I look like what am I going to get from this and I just resisted
[01:46:59] and when I remember even in college spending a couple of years in college like I'm going to do
[01:47:05] all this work they'll make it into this work for when I figured out that doing what I learned from
[01:47:09] doing the work and how much better it made me the work was 10 times easier
[01:47:13] making that connection putting yourself inside of that and look these books are actually
[01:47:21] somebody's books are really good I miss it's really good learning that are really well written
[01:47:28] with the old breed was the one that was the trigger for me early in my career I wasn't I was
[01:47:34] probably a junior captain when I was like a young captain so probably be four years in the
[01:47:39] Marine Corps and I read that that was one of the first big light bulbs for me was that book
[01:47:44] yeah sledge and just holy cow just reading that book that was one that turned me back into
[01:47:50] paying it that's gotten on that that path and I don't get me wrong there are times and I
[01:47:54] veered off that that book for me was a big turning point yeah and for me obviously it was about phase
[01:47:59] reading for the first time and and the first time I read it I read it because it was the most
[01:48:05] awesome war story or I shouldn't say the most because I you know you can't compare because with the old
[01:48:10] breed hmm tough tough tough to outdo colder than hell though yeah colder than hell
[01:48:20] when the Marines when the wounded starving frostbitten Marines are rolling back into base camp after
[01:48:26] escaping the development and somebody calls out fall in and they start marching back into
[01:48:34] camp and the other Marines line up and like saludum I mean come on yeah so but about face for me
[01:48:42] there's definitely the first time I read it was like an awesome war story and then the second time I
[01:48:48] read it was like hmm there's there's a little bit more here there here than I originally saw
[01:48:55] and then as you read it five times you go oh man that's a gem oh that oh I never my intuition
[01:49:04] is completely wrong and this is clearly the right way to do it so yeah putting these putting
[01:49:13] yourself into these situations is a is a way I think we'll we'll start to open the door on how to
[01:49:21] read this stuff where we'll have the most benefit in the back for you yeah back to the book
[01:49:27] exercise is also test the ability of units to sustain tempo for an extended period of time since
[01:49:32] victory is rarely the product of single actions the ability to operate and sustain combat effectiveness
[01:49:39] over time is important knowing when hostilities will cease is a convenience denied the combat
[01:49:48] Marine equipment must be maintained and people must be sustained with adequate rest,
[01:49:53] nourishment and hygiene until they accomplish their mission tactical exercises can range from
[01:49:59] field exercises to command post exercises to tactical exercises without field troops field
[01:50:06] exercises conducted by units of any size involved involve all unit personnel working together to
[01:50:12] learn test and refine their collective battlefield skills such exercises can be general in nature
[01:50:18] or they can be detailed rehearsals for specific upcoming missions command post exercises are largely
[01:50:23] limited to commanders and their staff their purposes to familiarize the staff with their commanders
[01:50:28] personnel personal preferences and operating styles as well as to exercise staff techniques and
[01:50:34] procedures to review a particular to review particular contingency plans so for those of you
[01:50:40] don't in the military sometimes the leadership the staff can rehearse and practice and do exercises
[01:50:47] as if there's a there's a there's a there move out of the field or working and even other not
[01:50:54] tactical exercises without troops provide tactical leaders opportunities to exercise judgment while
[01:51:01] permitting other unit elements to conduct training and education on their own
[01:51:07] there are there are two approaches to conducting them the first method provides a leader an opportunity
[01:51:11] to evaluate a subordinate's ability to perform in a given scenario boom scenario based training
[01:51:17] role playing you don't need anybody you don't need anybody in the field you can make it happen
[01:51:23] this method provides places students in an area of operations and provides a situation upon which
[01:51:27] to plan an executed task for example established a reverse slope defense the aim here is to
[01:51:37] exercise tactical proficiency in the sighting of weapons in the use of terrain the second method
[01:51:41] also places the student in an air operations and provides a situation but gives them a mission or
[01:51:47] a mission order for example prevent enemy movement north of route 348 the aim here is to exercise
[01:51:58] judgment after walking the ground the students must first decide whether to defend or it's
[01:52:04] exporting their conclusions with reasoning the reasoning is then discussed and criticized
[01:52:10] this approach encourages students to demonstrate ingenuity and initiative
[01:52:15] they have free reign to employ the resources as they see fit to achieve the desired results
[01:52:23] so just putting people in scenarios and then most equally important is discussing and criticizing
[01:52:32] and asking people why they're doing what they're doing why they made that decision figuring out
[01:52:36] how they're thinking and why they're thinking yeah that part that that last part of hey why did you do this
[01:52:41] and not the why did you do this not that while you're wrong and I need to know what's your
[01:52:47] you know like hey what were you seeing that made you think to do this and look if it turns out
[01:52:52] that it's just tactical you mistake and you know no no no factor this stuff is free you're not
[01:52:57] really moving people around you're not really spending gas none of that is happening you can do this
[01:53:01] all day long but it's the leaders that actually ask hey what why are you doing that what were you
[01:53:06] seeing there that you start to that's also I remember being asked as a young flight lead
[01:53:12] haven't seen your flight leads more often than I is like what are you doing and you don't want
[01:53:16] to answer and you're like I'm sorry I must have something good the best guys ever full with go
[01:53:19] hey man what did you see there like well I saw this and that and often they weren't seeing it
[01:53:26] and that ended becoming that built my confidence up that hey it's like you described earlier
[01:53:31] my brain actually is working pretty good what I lack is the confidence to take action on
[01:53:34] what I see because I'm afraid he's gonna think there's something wrong with it and the takeaway
[01:53:39] from this and we see with companies all the time is they think training is elaborate and training
[01:53:45] requires all these things it doesn't require anything you could sit at a table like this and
[01:53:50] have the conversation and if you have a strong enough relationship hey man what were you thinking
[01:53:54] there when I started to figure out that my instincts were pretty good and I understood it better
[01:53:58] than I thought and I started to build my confidence I started to contribute to the organization better
[01:54:03] and that comes from the leaders when they say and the critique and then I was willing to be
[01:54:07] criticized I wasn't defensive about being criticized I was actually listening to their point of view as
[01:54:11] well it's not that hard it's just a little humility from leaders to go well would you see man why
[01:54:16] that's pretty good I didn't see it like that this conversation isn't that hard
[01:54:22] and they're free they're free next section war gaming war games can be a valuable tool
[01:54:30] for understanding the many factors that influence a leader's decisions morale enemy and friendly
[01:54:36] situations the higher commanders intentions firepower mobility and terrain are only a few of the
[01:54:42] decision factors included in the play of war games in all these simulations from the sand table
[01:54:49] to a commercial board game to a computerized simulation routine should be avoided
[01:54:56] the less familiar the environment the more creativity the student must display sand table
[01:55:02] exercises tactical decision games and map exercises present students with a general situation
[01:55:09] mission orders and a minimum of information on enemy and friendly forces sand table exercises are
[01:55:16] especially suited to novice tacticians they present the terrain and a three-durched
[01:55:21] dimensional array whereas a map requires interpretation both map and sand table exercises and
[01:55:27] able students to conceptualize the battle deliver their decisions and issue orders to
[01:55:32] subordinates afterwards students discuss their decisions and our critique the decision the
[01:55:38] discussion should focus on making a decision in the absence of perfect information or complete intelligence
[01:55:45] those are again these are things that are free free you can do with your business you can do with
[01:55:54] your team you can do with your platoon next section terrain walks terrain walks introduce
[01:56:00] the realities of terrain vegetation and weather terrain walks can be conducted in at least two ways
[01:56:06] the first method provides students with an area of operations a general situation and a mission
[01:56:10] as in sand table and map exercises students describe their view of the battle choosing one plan the
[01:56:16] group then begins to walk the terrain according to the plan the group will then encounter
[01:56:20] to un-inticipate terrain and obstacles while the instructors introduce enemy actions into the play
[01:56:25] of the problem in this way students must contend with the disparity between actual terrain and
[01:56:31] vegetarian vegetation and maps as well as the chaos and uncertainty generated by enemy actions
[01:56:36] that invariably occur in real world operations to just think of all the ways you as a business owner can
[01:56:45] employ that right there playing the bad customer playing the good customer I mean there's so many ways
[01:56:51] to do this the second method involves the first hand study of historic battle fields
[01:56:58] we gain a special vantage on battle by walking the ground and seeing the battle field from the
[01:57:03] perspective of both commanders we gain a new appreciation for a historical commanders
[01:57:09] of blunders often such blunders seem incomprehensible until we see the ground only then can we
[01:57:16] realistically consider alternative courses of action that the commander might have pursued
[01:57:22] an interestingly add national front right now we've kind of we're starting to prepare some
[01:57:28] historical battlefield walks and terrain studies that we're going to offer up to a small number of
[01:57:37] clients so that will be that'll be awesome some of the sites we're checking out right now
[01:57:44] gonna be great next section competition exercises should provide realism the means to a chief tactical
[01:57:51] realism our competitive free play or force on force exercises yes whenever possible
[01:58:00] unit training should be conducted in a free place scenario this approach can be used by all
[01:58:05] leaders to develop their support needs it affords both leaders and unit members there
[01:58:09] opportunity to apply their skills and knowledge against an active threat free place in
[01:58:13] area so when you're setting these up this is a this is like a little tiny thing I remember doing this
[01:58:18] so we'd have certain areas we'd be training on let's say a base somewhere and there'd be some
[01:58:24] area that we weren't allowed to go into you know for whatever administrative reasons hey there
[01:58:28] you guys don't allowed to go over there because that's the whatever and the common thing we
[01:58:34] be okay guys just to add me note you're not allowed to go over there and I hated that because it
[01:58:41] ruins the free place scenario puts in everyone's mind that well you know this is this is like
[01:58:47] lame so I would say hey guys yeah you can go wherever you want by the way intel indicates that there's
[01:58:54] IDs heavily planted in this area and then sure enough we'd plant some fake IDs right on the border
[01:58:59] and they might hit one but they wouldn't continue that direction so as you're setting up scenarios
[01:59:04] try and make them as realistic because there's always constraints on a real battlefield don't make
[01:59:08] them admin make them real yeah what's an admin constraint like what like like like like like this
[01:59:15] game does indicate that it's a game in their mind so you might have let's say we have a let's say this
[01:59:23] we're going to a an urban terrain village and the army says hey this one building we got over here
[01:59:30] the it's unsafe and we don't want your guys going in it and so instead of me saying okay guys
[01:59:36] it's free play except for this building it's not safe so don't go in there and everyone goes
[01:59:40] that's kind of lame right whereas if I say hey guys do whatever you want this building right here
[01:59:46] heavily ID in tell reports indicate that it is heavily ID and if you go in there your you are
[01:59:53] almost guaranteed to take a casualty and then in the doorway I put an ID right a fake ID and it's like
[01:59:59] yeah so it just keeps the mindset in the game yeah we did that in aviation all the time we
[02:00:06] go out to a range you know now let's remember and you'd have part of the range and some of the
[02:00:10] part you wouldn't have because another squadron was training there and most of the admin briefs were
[02:00:14] hey we don't have this range and this range stay out of there because you know you're not supposed
[02:00:18] to be the other guys in their training below x altitude to avoid them the good flight leads would say
[02:00:23] we have a Samoring here from this service to earth yes which guestwood scenario had more
[02:00:29] violations of that range the one where you had a Samoring where you die in the in the mission you
[02:00:33] dying get colored out and you wouldn't get the fight anymore or the admin violation they would just say
[02:00:38] move to the north your in violation of the mmm and making realistic isn't that hard there's a
[02:00:42] whole bunch of places we would fly all the time right you can't go there why that's a ran
[02:00:46] yeah they have this system here you don't want to fly there not because it's an administrative
[02:00:50] border totally and 95% of the time the one that you would violate would be you're not allowed to
[02:00:55] be there why would you just not because we don't have it today and whatever okay or you put
[02:00:59] it alive throughout there and guys like I'm not gonna I don't want to get killed there you go make it
[02:01:05] realistic free play exercises are adaptable to all tactical scenarios and benefit beneficial
[02:01:14] to all echelons whether it is fire teams scouting against fire teams sections of aircraft
[02:01:20] dueling in the sky do you get a little bit he like that don't you or battalions or companies
[02:01:28] battalions squadrons and marine airground task force operating against one another both leaders
[02:01:33] and individual marines benefit leaders form and execute their decisions against an opposing
[02:01:41] force as individual marines employ their skills against an active enemy through free play exercises
[02:01:48] marines learn to fight as an organization and deal with a realistically challenging foe
[02:01:53] next section is about critiques a key attribute of decision makers is their ability to reach
[02:02:01] decisions with clear reasoning critiques elicit this reasoning critiques elicit this reasoning
[02:02:09] process any tactical decision game or tactical exercise should culminate with a critique
[02:02:16] the standard approach for conducting critiques should be should promote initiative
[02:02:20] since every tactical situation is unique and since no training situation can encompass more than a
[02:02:25] small fraction of the peculiarities of a real tactical situation there can be no ideal school solution
[02:02:32] critiques should focus on the students rationale for for doing what they did so there is
[02:02:38] he it's like you said i'm not gonna say Dave you chose this method that method was wrong
[02:02:44] I mean okay are there exceptions that yeah you could do something that was
[02:02:47] tactically unsound and then we talk about it but you made a decision let's talk about why you made
[02:02:53] that decision what factors did a student consider or not consider in making an estimate of the
[02:02:58] situation were the decisions the student made consistent with the estimate were the actions ordered
[02:03:04] tactically sound did they have a reasonable chance of achieving success how well were orders
[02:03:09] communicated to subordinates these questions should form the basis for critiques
[02:03:14] the purpose is to broaden the leaders analytical powers experience level and base of knowledge
[02:03:23] thereby increasing the students at creative ability to devise sound innovative solutions
[02:03:29] to difficult problems and I used to explain to my guys when I was running training that
[02:03:36] the goal was not to the goal of training was not to put their brain in a box it was to open up all
[02:03:41] those doors and allow them to make decisions that they that aren't that aren't standard
[02:03:50] critiques should be open-minded and understanding rather than rigid and harsh
[02:03:57] I'll read that again critiques should be open-minded and understanding rather than rigid and
[02:04:02] harsh this is the big tough United States Marine Corps telling everyone that your critiques should be
[02:04:09] understanding yes why because mistakes are essential to the learning process and should always
[02:04:18] be cast in a positive light mistakes are essential to the learning process and should always be
[02:04:25] cast in a positive light imagine if you applied that to your children
[02:04:32] the focus should not be on whether a leader did well or poorly but rather on the progress achieved
[02:04:37] in the overall development when or learn as I talked about in war your kid you're going to win
[02:04:44] or you're going to learn that's the Marine Corps saying we must aim to provide the best climate to
[02:04:49] grow leaders damaging a leaders self-esteem especially in public therefore should be strictly avoided
[02:04:57] and that's exactly what you talked about Dave he's talking about the good the good leaders
[02:05:02] that would build your confidence but I'm sure along the way you had guys that were like
[02:05:07] they'll what you do in bulk for sure look your your best tool to figure out how to not
[02:05:15] make a mistake in combat is to figure out the mistakes you made in training that's the best thing
[02:05:20] you can do is figure out all the things you did wrong and what that sort of relied on over time
[02:05:27] what you actually wanted to get to is guys will into admit the mistakes that they made that
[02:05:30] people didn't see and that's that's magnified in a single seat airplane most people didn't see a lot
[02:05:36] of what I would a lot of my mistakes people didn't see or you could certainly cover them up
[02:05:41] if you had a squadron where guys were willing to hey you didn't see this but I screwed this thing up
[02:05:45] by myself if you get to that point now you're here to place where that squadron is literally
[02:05:51] inside on the idea of hey I'm just here to make everybody better I'm I'm not afraid of admitting
[02:05:55] any mistake that I made and I'd be a squadron you see that the senior guys that would just crush
[02:06:00] the junior guys and guess what they did with all those little mistakes they would hide them all all
[02:06:04] those little things that you might not hear about that you're never going to see I'm not going to
[02:06:08] volunteer and I'm not going to get it crushed again and you know who you're hurt and who you're doing
[02:06:11] the whole team your crush on the whole team and if you can get to a point your guys are
[02:06:16] offering up errors that you didn't even see now you're at a place where you know you've got a team
[02:06:22] willing to to figure out all and how you I think that team's going to do in combat how do you think
[02:06:26] that team's going to do in the world but yeah man all the time you go get to the way you see these
[02:06:31] guys and what they really want to do is they want to look smarter in front of everybody else and
[02:06:34] they're going to do it at your expense and yeah that that feels good for about 30 seconds
[02:06:39] I crush this guy in public will guess what you actually hurt yourself in the long run you're
[02:06:42] at the team in the long run and it's so obvious when you talk about it but it happens all the time
[02:06:46] you are who looks at a leader that crushes someone in public and goes wow that was
[02:06:50] it was awesome that was so cool with to your bruiser we would because when you get done with a
[02:06:57] run whether it's a land warfare or urban or whatever you debrief and then the cadre debriefs you
[02:07:04] and you know the cadre usually just rips task units apart but tasking a bruiser we would hammer
[02:07:10] ourselves so hard that the cadre we got nothing else go get ready for another run yeah
[02:07:14] and this is how they close out this little section a leader's self confidence is the well
[02:07:22] spring from which flows the willingness to assume responsibility and exercise initiative
[02:07:30] so every moment that you are cutting down a leader's confidence you are crushing their
[02:07:36] their willingness to assume responsibility take ownership and exercise initiative
[02:07:41] this is what you need them to do what you absolutely need them to do
[02:07:47] crazy and here's the conclusion
[02:07:52] in this publication we have explored themes that help us to understand the fundamentals and
[02:07:58] to master the art and science of tactics from the study of our war fighting philosophy we have
[02:08:06] gained an appreciation for their requirement to be decisive in battle to accomplish this we must
[02:08:12] clearly visualize the battle space gained through gained situational awareness recognize patterns
[02:08:19] and make decisions intuitively we have also discussed ways we can gain advantage over the enemy
[02:08:26] and force him to bend to our will we also explored how to be faster in relation to the enemy
[02:08:34] to adapt to changing conditions to cooperate for success to exploit success and to finish the
[02:08:41] enemy finally we discussed how we can begin to act on these ideas during our training for combat
[02:08:50] the ideas presented in this publication have implications far beyond a battle field tactics
[02:08:57] and the doctrinal way we think about warfare they also influence the way we organize
[02:09:02] using task organization and flexible command and control relationships and the way we equip ourselves
[02:09:09] for combat weging war in maneuver warfare styled demands a professional body of officers and marines
[02:09:18] schooled in its science and art when asked why the marines were so successful in operation desert
[02:09:25] storm general boomer replied the thing that made the big difference on the battle field is that we
[02:09:31] had thousands and thousands of individual marines constantly taking the initiative the young
[02:09:39] Lance Corporal would take a look see something 75 or 100 meters out in front that needed to be done
[02:09:46] and go out there and do it without being told as I read through the award citations from desert
[02:09:54] shield and desert storm this team reappears time and time again that aggressive spirit comes from
[02:10:02] being well trained and confident in your professional knowledge and here's how they close this
[02:10:11] thing out everything we do in peace time should prepare us for combat our preparation for combat
[02:10:20] depends upon training and education that develop the action and fought essential to battle
[02:10:33] and that wraps up MCDP one tack three tactics everything we do in peace time
[02:10:42] should prepare us for combat everything and let's just take that one step further that everything
[02:10:58] that you do matters it matters and I know that everyone's not necessarily preparing for combat
[02:11:13] but we are actually preparing for life for the next opportunity that we are going to see and we are
[02:11:19] going to see and we are going to exploit or the next obstacle or the next crisis we have to be ready
[02:11:30] and everything we do should prepare us for that so don't take it easy and don't slack off
[02:11:40] be ready to aggressively attack or counter and get the upper hand and then be ready to exploit
[02:11:52] repeatedly until you finish the enemy that's what we're doing here
[02:12:02] all right good review I did not think this was going to take four podcasts
[02:12:16] yeah what's probably eight to ten hours I guess I guess maybe around eight hours
[02:12:22] but that is eight hours well spent and I hope that I hope that people listening to this
[02:12:29] clearly my number one priority is I hope that the folks that are going to be going out on the front
[02:12:34] lines to protect this country can get something and take something away from from this series of podcasts
[02:12:41] kind of it's been awesome having you here Dave to hear your perspective from the ring core
[02:12:46] to hear your perspective from just how closely these things relate air ground doesn't matter
[02:12:52] it's like it's the same thing it's leadership it's tactics they're all related
[02:13:00] check did you think we would go that deep no I didn't and I actually
[02:13:09] I learned so much just listening to it again and that for me was probably the most fun as
[02:13:16] me just sitting here hearing you say the words that I've read before a couple times and making
[02:13:23] the connections to a whole bunch of things that I had made the connection on before this was I mean
[02:13:27] look this was awesome for me to be here and of all the the books to be talking about
[02:13:32] Marine Core Tactics that's that's good to go yeah so check echo Charles if speaking of
[02:13:42] being prepared for combat for life sure I know you're pretty you pretty into that
[02:13:51] sure you know oh yeah you got that uh dot five oh cow desert eagle
[02:14:01] sure without your first handgun that you got oh well you know technically yeah that's a good
[02:14:09] I bought a bunch of them together so yeah so the first one that I paid for and signed for yeah
[02:14:17] desert eagle but it came it took a while for it to come in so yeah into you know before it came in
[02:14:21] I got out of the one so you know I bet it's cool to shoot that thing yeah well you do well oh yes
[02:14:27] I did and it was that thing was awesome yeah preparedness that's part of your preparedness yeah very practical
[02:14:33] um because I also have a refrigerator so you know someone attacks me they hide behind the refrigerator
[02:14:39] boom I'm prepared you seem saying oh because you got the desert eagle and shoot through the
[02:14:43] refrigerator penetration that you need in pretty in-house scenario you know scenario what if you
[02:14:48] don't ever weapon what can you use the uh okay so and I think about this too a lot not a lot
[02:14:55] we'll just say some of the time where yes you can you can be prepared with weapons most of the time
[02:15:00] you're thinking about like if you're talking about what you think about a lot it's like Hawaii five
[02:15:04] long you know Mario brothers no not Mario brothers yes nonetheless you can be prepared with some
[02:15:14] one called you echo nonetheless Charles yeah yeah and that's what you want that's that's a quasi
[02:15:22] important point too because I don't say nevertheless some people try to tease me and be like oh yeah
[02:15:27] you see you never really less but I don't say never less but I'm not really cares I don't
[02:15:31] want to spare anyway like I was trying to say you can be prepared with weapons desert eagle or
[02:15:38] otherwise but what if you like don't have ammo the weapon fails or you simply don't have the weapons
[02:15:47] I know like we're encouraged to have your tools on you at all times I get it but are they on
[02:15:53] you at all times they should be yeah but let's say you're in the shower let's say you're picking
[02:15:59] up your kids from school no guns on what if you're in there playing check yep there you go
[02:16:05] during the airport past security you seem saying to your good scenario anyway it's possible
[02:16:10] it's one I'm saying so then what do you have and I'm not saying like you need to be bruisedly
[02:16:15] uh a hoist graysie or something like this but don't have nothing don't go from level 10
[02:16:21] prepared to level zero in one pass of the security check point you seem saying so what can you have
[02:16:29] you get out the jujitsu it's true it's absolutely true anyway so yes we're going to jitsu and
[02:16:36] the good part about this is like this preparedness taking jitsu is fun beneficial health wise
[02:16:45] and also therapeutic so mentally fun is or mentally uh produces did you see the big fight it
[02:16:50] there's new world negative Disney land did you see it it was on youtube yeah oh like a fight
[02:16:56] yeah big fight big man oh but at some point some some dude just walks up and puts a dude
[02:17:01] to sleep and then walks away yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[02:17:04] in cognito walks up behind him puts him to sleep lesm down walks away yeah so that's
[02:17:10] that's that's that's one month of jitsu because I'm sitting here thinking you hear the argument
[02:17:14] well you know it's I don't have too much time to invest and how good can I really get like
[02:17:20] you train for a month and you can put someone to sleep oh yeah train for one month just two
[02:17:25] times a week and and I'm not saying you will you'll be effective against another jitsu you're not
[02:17:30] saying you're not gonna be but you compare yourself to the guy who doesn't know any jitsu which is a
[02:17:34] lot of people and the years the question when are you going to be attacked it might be in a month
[02:17:39] but it might be in two years and two years you could be that much more prepared for the situation
[02:17:44] and on top of all that benefit of just this pure self defense aspect you got in better condition
[02:17:51] and you brought into your view of the world you became a better human being your perspective is
[02:17:57] better you see the thread in all things yes you will so we're doing jitsu by the way oh yeah
[02:18:07] speak to and it makes sense when people go in the first day second day and they get addicted because they see the
[02:18:13] power whether it's demonstrated on them or if you just look I have a six year old daughter currently
[02:18:19] she's six so I'm not saying to do this but I'm saying this is an example of how it can be kind of
[02:18:25] fun and empowering so I thought her the real naked joke it's fun to do that if you teach kids who are
[02:18:29] responsible with it you don't need them going to school and choking out everybody I understand
[02:18:33] actually you need them not doing that yes correct you have to explain to them that this is not for school
[02:18:38] unless it's a serious self defense yes and there's a whole you know protocol with that but so we're
[02:18:44] at a party on koi and you know we're like hey you know you're still we're talking about this
[02:18:50] talking about that and my daughter she wants to demonstrate their rear naked joke and most people
[02:18:55] if they don't know about their rear naked joke they're like oh my god you're six you know you're
[02:18:58] not gonna yeah exactly right and so like alright well just let her put it on you and you know
[02:19:05] like if you can resist it cool man you're right and the cheap one someone to sleep no the thing is you
[02:19:11] you know when you're going to sleep even I mean how's this my wife's nephew put my wife's brother
[02:19:17] to sleep before but he was like 14, 15 years old but nonetheless so these kids or even adults
[02:19:25] whatever they'll learn these these moves first day and they'll become addicted because they know the power
[02:19:30] the power that a 66 year old can get in one day by the way nine one day 20 minutes really
[02:19:38] and they have the potential to put in adult to sleep crazy whether it is a crazy man or
[02:19:42] other about yes sir so one you're trained to do so you're gonna need a key if you're doing gear
[02:19:47] or a minky and no key so if you're doing gear when you're doing gear get a origin gear from originmaid.com
[02:19:54] made in America made in America best geese 100% by far factually yeah and maybe you're a patriotic
[02:20:01] person maybe you just like to support the economy in this country well years ago they took the economy
[02:20:11] away from main they took it away yeah they sold it overseas we are bringing it back so if you want
[02:20:19] to train geet to and you want to at the same time support the economy of our country go to origin
[02:20:27] main and if you aren't training geet to or you're gonna train geet to and you got an origin
[02:20:33] gear but you don't want to wear that gear to the store because you want because you don't want to be
[02:20:41] that guy right where you get the store have you ever want to get to a store negative not even I have
[02:20:46] not either I saw kid with the he kids with the door my daughters my youngest daughter has worn
[02:20:53] her gear actually I think all my kids have worn my kids have worn their geets straight up out
[02:20:58] to dinner you know and they were little kids and stuff just bringing them from the streets to
[02:21:02] their district wearing their geets the whole geek belt tied everything you know not gonna disrespect
[02:21:08] that geek but yeah my little daughter even right now I mean she's 10 but you know if we're going to
[02:21:13] go grab some food afterwards after jiu jitsu class we might you know she might be in her geet no
[02:21:18] fact I know that kind of that kind of improves their it improves their posture yeah yeah when they're
[02:21:27] wearing a geet oh yeah they're kind of got that that that that could be the proved self esteem
[02:21:33] yeah when they're wearing that geet yeah in their mind they're walking around they're like hey
[02:21:38] they see what I'm wearing yeah there's no mistake they see what I'm wearing basically I'm training
[02:21:44] I'm over here training what are you doing that's my little 10 year old daughter's walking around
[02:21:47] saying it's good it's not saying it verbally but given that implicit message to the world
[02:21:52] I'm over here training what are you doing it don't sense of it looks like all right so yeah
[02:21:59] if you don't if you don't want to wear your geek you can wear jeans should have jeans at origin
[02:22:05] we have t-shirts at origin and we have supplements at origin to help your
[02:22:12] physical and mental and cognitive power preparedness
[02:22:18] yeah yeah so so krill oil joint warfare these are for your joints and general health
[02:22:26] because you know you're cumin that's in joint warfare so this anti-inflammatory stuff
[02:22:31] and they're really good stuff this will keep you in the game physically like your joint
[02:22:35] like man and again I said this before where you know when you think supplements were
[02:22:39] thinking creatine um state jacked you know implement gains because there's a supplements
[02:22:44] based the bait this is what I think you've been trying to say for the last three years or however long
[02:22:50] the the foundational supplementation should be focused on joint health yeah you know what that's
[02:22:57] like so and I might have said this before maybe maybe not whatever but it's true I might have been
[02:23:03] not a listening to you yeah so you wouldn't really know yes yes I get it and you're not wrong
[02:23:08] on now but this is still correct it's like when you take these creatine protein things it can be
[02:23:13] looked at is it like this if you don't take the foundational joint or joint stuff that'll keep you
[02:23:18] in the game capable of overpower no it's like you're watering like if you have a plant or
[02:23:23] tree it's like you're watering the leaves you seem saying no you water the roots the roots allow
[02:23:29] anything to grow on top there and then it's gonna be you know based on hard work and discipline
[02:23:33] and consistency all that stuff but you water the roots the roots are strong right you're going to
[02:23:37] stay in the game same thing with your joints 100% Dave last time you talked about the discipline go
[02:23:45] pill which I know you take prior to to quote you from last time prior to anything but I also know
[02:23:54] that you pound quite a bit of the discipline pre-op powder drink dude you hammer that stuff
[02:24:04] the go and all forms has become my go to supplement use it everywhere I do and you know we
[02:24:12] are kind of kidding around I'm I'm dead serious if I want to be in the game mentally which I do
[02:24:19] for kind of everything other than watching TV right because we don't need to be in the
[02:24:25] good right we'll be honest with you no watching TV no I'm in full agreement watching TV for me
[02:24:31] which is a relatively rare event that's a but that's a social obligation no I was gonna say not
[02:24:37] to go into your personal life but you were telling me the other day when you watch TV it is not for you
[02:24:42] it is it is it is for your family it is it's okay we're gonna watch it's gonna be like yeah
[02:24:47] absolutely cool I'll sit down and watch this and I'll for me it's like time to sleep it is yeah
[02:24:52] power nap I will sleep to I take my kids to movies my wife and I will take her kids movies
[02:24:57] I have a 100% success rate of sleeping through a majority of these movies all right well
[02:25:03] I'm gonna miss out on the whole movie important question that are you gonna take discipline go
[02:25:08] or otherwise when you're watching the new top gun movie oh this is a whole situation there's
[02:25:14] a very strong chance that I will because that will probably be the first movie not just because
[02:25:20] I want to see what happens because I am sure I'm gonna get 10 or more questions about that movie
[02:25:25] and the completion of it and I want to know are you is it like what accuracy question
[02:25:30] you're not in or did you advise it on it or anything maybe
[02:25:36] all right so you're kind of in it maybe I'm not in it you won't see me
[02:25:41] we won't see my name in the credits but are you asking me if I was involved in it maybe
[02:25:46] we were all the sudden he's doing top secret missions for Hollywood over here the only reason I
[02:25:51] would say maybe is that I wouldn't be able to a lot I wouldn't be allowed to tell you a
[02:25:54] base on a win I contributed to that movie oh yeah so he'd be allowed to no he could tell you
[02:26:01] but then you'd have to kill you no I tell him that's a line from top one the main original
[02:26:07] it's classified right yeah anyway so yes this win go while watching the new top
[02:26:13] gun it's called Maverick by the way and I don't want to be engaged in something I'm taking
[02:26:17] go who are you which is basically every waking hour of my work day and not when I'm
[02:26:22] watching TV yeah because that's sort of the thing that I was getting to is you know you might drink
[02:26:30] hey I'm thirsty I'm gonna have a glass of water hey I'm thirsty I'm gonna eat a coke or
[02:26:36] a sprite if you're a human if you're a person that doesn't care about getting after it but
[02:26:42] if you're a person that does care about getting after it you can be like oh I'm kind of thirsty
[02:26:47] I'm gonna have some discipline go and I'm just gonna get up on step and I'm gonna stay there
[02:26:51] yes because there's no overlap load of caffeine by the way there's no there's very little caffeine
[02:26:58] 15 milligrams per scoop yeah and it doesn't take much too you don't need to be pounding
[02:27:02] five six cans of it it doesn't take much to get on the step yeah I'm with so there's a lot
[02:27:06] you there if you do need protein then you can get some from milk which is milk
[02:27:14] disguised as protein well actually this protein in the form of a dessert yeah
[02:27:19] and so you can check that out we keep talking about how good it is and yes it is that good
[02:27:25] and warrior kid milk you can get for the childrens that you may or may not have formulated
[02:27:31] and of course tea another thing that you can drink all day long hot in the winter time
[02:27:39] cold in the summertime so there you go that's origin made.com also jocco as a store it's called
[02:27:46] jocco store anyway this is where you can get shirts discipline equals freedom you know represent
[02:27:53] the path while you're on the path you don't rash guards who it is hats dry not dry fit no we're
[02:28:00] gonna get dry fit us stuff by the way oh we are shirts yes for working out overwhelming
[02:28:05] recommendations for dry fit I gotta dry fit who recommended that that you finally because I've
[02:28:11] been asking you that for 14 years before I even knew you I was asking you that and you know what
[02:28:16] that's before you yeah well and I get it and you were you were right and here's here's why I'm
[02:28:24] arriving to that conclusion even on an emotional level okay so one of our friends and I wish I could
[02:28:30] divulge no I wish I could remember his name he gave me a dry fit sure representing his team and it's
[02:28:39] like it's it's a cool it's a red one so I'm like oh yeah cool I'd really wear dry fit but hey man cool
[02:28:44] so one day I put it on and I was like man this thing is good like it fits good it like feels good
[02:28:49] lighter it's like breeze yeah I was like man I could wear it so then another time when it
[02:28:53] worked out in it and I'm like okay that's why I became a believer in the dry fit I always thought
[02:28:59] they just didn't look good or something like I don't know they thought they didn't look good yeah
[02:29:05] check see that's the big difference between you and me I go form over I go I go function first
[02:29:12] and you go looks well yes yeah oh kind of like I'm white men can't jump remember that movie
[02:29:19] I remember that you'd rather look good and lose than the other you know I'll just look bad and
[02:29:24] win or something like that Woody Hart Harold's in check kind of like that anyway so yes I'm like
[02:29:30] okay I'm a believer fully so boom dry fit coming soon we're gonna have dry fit stuff this
[02:29:35] political freedom also lightweight hoodies flex fit hats and chocolate by the way check
[02:29:43] jocustor.com don't forget to subscribe to the podcast if you've forgotten for three years
[02:29:51] for three years if you've forgotten to subscribe to the podcast put it on your list of things to do
[02:29:57] sure in the coming year subscribe to it and don't forget to subscribe to the warrior kid podcast
[02:30:04] so that your little kids are just aligned with your thought process isn't that a nice thing
[02:30:11] Dave your kids do your kids absorb do let me think of a way to write answers this
[02:30:21] ask this correctly without being offensive do your kids listen to Uncle Jake or you which one gets
[02:30:29] the higher priority the the the question is is they listen to both but the success rate that Uncle
[02:30:39] Jake has is significantly higher yeah that's what I would say I can't do this experiment with my
[02:30:46] kids because my kids don't differentiate between these these things they just they're just you know
[02:30:54] they that's what they get so your youngest when she first heard the word kipod guess you're like
[02:30:58] ask Uncle Jake and you'd be like brother that's just you yeah yeah she knows what's behind the curtain
[02:31:04] are you sure you know noree sure so or someone said to someone asked noree is a female
[02:31:12] black belt that we have at the gym and and someone was a and she mean we spent a lot of
[02:31:19] time on the map for the last 10 years or whatever and so and I've given her I gave her some advice
[02:31:24] over the years right the counseling sessions about things and it's worked out really well for her
[02:31:31] and anyways someone else asked her a question and she was answering it and the person goes
[02:31:36] got you you sound just like jockel podcast and noree because I don't listen to jockel podcast
[02:31:43] you know then she told me that story and I said well you don't listen to jockel podcast you
[02:31:46] listen to me you listen you've been already hearing this stuff for 10 years so there you go
[02:31:53] so the the children sometimes it's it's a little bit of a hit on the ego because you think well
[02:32:00] I want my kid to listen to me yeah but you know what I want my kid I want my kid to listen to someone
[02:32:05] that's making sense yeah it's only hit on your ego if it's more important they listen to you
[02:32:09] then for them to be successful yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[02:32:12] like oh they're gonna go win good to go yeah yeah we came from yeah I would rather that's like what
[02:32:16] do you just said echo I would rather my kids listen to me and lose then listen to someone else
[02:32:21] and win so we got to watch out for that don't forget about the warrior kid sop's Irish oaks
[02:32:26] ranch dot com were young aiden is making soap on a farm in California we use that soap you can
[02:32:33] stay clean you youtube channel yeah we do have a youtube channel if you're interested in the video
[02:32:40] version of this podcast if you want to see how much Dave Burke looks like Tom Cruise yeah
[02:32:48] which is not zero like there's some overlap there there is what's the overlap there I don't
[02:32:54] all they're hair they're the same hair you're taller I think you got you know yeah that's all good
[02:33:03] so you can check out what Dave you can also look at the videos that echo's super proud of
[02:33:10] overly proud of then you can put the comments on those things and he reads him I read him
[02:33:15] I read the little comments on there usually someone writes echo's jacked
[02:33:20] yep I've uh and someone else writes echo's can you yeah there is no yeah and take the good
[02:33:28] in the bad I'm not saying I read the comments not saying I don't read the comments you
[02:33:32] definitely I am saying from time to time when I do read a comment across various platforms
[02:33:40] I will say this when someone does say echo is or looks jacked the number of a's and jack has
[02:33:48] been steadily increasing so that being you're getting more jacked so I posted I posted a couple
[02:33:58] things on on the gram yeah the Instagram and I was reading those comments those comments are
[02:34:07] almost worth reading allowed some of them were so funny especially when I made a salad on Instagram
[02:34:16] in three minutes it takes three minutes to make this salad and the some of the comments that
[02:34:21] people were making about I can't believe you eat chicken from a can you had to come in and
[02:34:28] give me fire support on that one well yeah I saw a bit yeah so yeah those those were uh
[02:34:33] those were funny I think I might make a little I think I might make a little video of me reading
[02:34:38] some of those comments I was laughing out loud when I was reading those comments yeah yeah those yeah
[02:34:42] very good one like that drinking milk oh yeah dairy it's like I was drinking it's like I was drinking
[02:34:49] formaldehyde I mean it was just some people were just getting crazy but I like that some people were
[02:34:55] just so super still I meant and that sounds cool man yeah and I mixed my I mixed my salad dressing
[02:35:02] in a used water bottle yeah you mix a lot of stuff in the use I know I'm pro used but people
[02:35:09] like you know some people were like there's my PA yeah you got it you're gonna die I'm like
[02:35:17] dude take it easy yeah you know that that's a good the here's the thing they'll overall
[02:35:23] if those things get in them this is for real like how quick you made a set because I make a salad
[02:35:28] similar to that like just super basic and blah blah where some people they think wait you make a
[02:35:34] salad every day like probably making a salad is a big deal you got a chop up the thing and
[02:35:38] this boom it's the full gourmet thing it's right yeah not even yeah three minutes three minutes
[02:35:43] right and then guess what I did I did have the can of chicken open pre-opened there you go three
[02:35:50] minutes 10 seconds easy money but no because most people they're like oh wait I have
[02:35:55] don't have time whatever so what are they gonna make a freaking hot pocket in the freaking microwave
[02:36:00] you know which is horrible for yeah is that worse than salad dressing mix than a water bottle I think
[02:36:04] yes in can chicken yeah man so and that's really the point right there it's like oh yeah
[02:36:09] I didn't imagine you were in space video yeah and people were like you're gonna get
[02:36:14] carpal whatever that's a tunnel and someone else in your posture is gonna break down I mean wait
[02:36:19] why why why will you get a couple couple I don't know because I don't know but I type all the time
[02:36:26] I don't have it so what does that mean oh wait you need like an ergonomic type right uh you
[02:36:30] keyboard or something like this anyways funny stuff that's uh going on psychological warfare
[02:36:36] it's now with tracks you can get me talking to you about moments a weakness flip side can
[02:36:40] this dot com that's Dakota Myers company for artwork to hang on your wall to keep you on the path
[02:36:47] you can rock that and then there's on it dot com slash jocco yes good stuff on there
[02:36:54] kettlebells that's the number when I think on it I think kettlebells but they got a lot of
[02:36:59] good stuff on their rings as well that's that one that one's a key if you don't have rings get rings
[02:37:04] hundred percent definitely on it dot com the books I have for you warrior kid three warrior kid two
[02:37:12] warrior kid one these are the books that will get your kids on the path man like you know how
[02:37:18] we're reading this the whole time Dave and we're like man I wish I would have read this like type of
[02:37:22] thing when I was twenty well when you were nine you wish you had the warrior kid books I guarantee it
[02:37:28] and you know what if you didn't have when you were nine you're gonna wish you had them when you were
[02:37:31] thirty eight true star hundred somebody somebody asked me in an interview the other day
[02:37:38] what does it mean to be a man right keep fair enough question and I said oh it's not an easy
[02:37:45] question to answer and a quick interview but I wrote a book about it it's called way of the warrior
[02:37:50] kid in fact of written in a whole series about it it's about what it means to be a man what it
[02:37:55] means to be a person because there's girls and boys that read that book and the lessons are how
[02:38:02] to live a good life as a human being so you might want to check those out and then Mikey
[02:38:08] in the dragons how old is your youngest five how does Mikey in the dragons come across
[02:38:15] he loves that book and what he does now and when we when we bust that thing I he actually is
[02:38:21] spending more time with uh order kid now because he's getting older you know what he holds
[02:38:27] when we're reading Mikey in the dragons he's got a sword yes so he's super stoked because he's
[02:38:35] got a sword I like all the little notes I get and of whatever the fear was you know it's like
[02:38:43] and I told him to be like Mikey and face the dragons and he stood up and jumped in the pool or he
[02:38:48] stood up and got up on stage or whatever the case maybe so yeah Mikey in the dragons my
[02:38:54] boy is two oh it'll be three next month and you know I read it to him and you know my daughter
[02:39:00] is well and cool good of course they you know they liked that but they can look at the pictures too
[02:39:04] you know because the pictures a lot more vibrant you know then the warrior kid ones all catch him not
[02:39:10] often but everyone's all catch him acting he can't read he's two you know but he's acting like
[02:39:16] he's reading it but he's really looking at the pictures you know how kids sometimes do that
[02:39:20] they'll look at the pictures and they'll just assign a story to every picture you know and he's doing
[02:39:24] that he's like or the dragon came and he was just a baby dragon or something like this
[02:39:28] so man but that's a testament to the pictures in there John Bozack from prison coming on strong
[02:39:34] uh speaking of pictures discipline goes for you and field manual that's a book for adult humans
[02:39:42] the things you want to know about life and getting after it the audio version that is on iTunes
[02:39:49] Amazon music google play and it other MP3 and the next dream ownership and the economy leadership
[02:39:55] leadership books I wrote with my brother Dave Babin that you can apply to everything in your world
[02:40:01] we got echelon front which is our leadership consultancy and what we do there is solve problems
[02:40:08] through leadership Dave and I refer back to it a hundred times the companies we work with that's
[02:40:13] what we do we get them on a path where their leadership is aligned and when your leadership is aligned
[02:40:20] your company will absolutely win and when your leadership is not aligned guess what's going on your
[02:40:25] company is losing go to echelon front dot com if you want us to come and work with you we got
[02:40:31] EF online because training from leadership is not a one shot one kill deal another topic that
[02:40:40] Dave and I talked about you don't just read a book you don't just sit through one seminar and go
[02:40:45] oh cool I'm a great leader now no you never say that and so we made the online training
[02:40:51] to reiterate and embed the concepts of leadership that we know to work embed those things into your
[02:41:02] brain and into the brain of everyone at your company EF online dot com we got the muster coming up
[02:41:08] the next one is September 19th and 20th and Denver after that December 4th and 5th and Sidney
[02:41:13] Australia if you want to come register now or you will not be able to come because it will be sold out
[02:41:18] go to extremotorship dot com for details there and if you need people if you need leaders at your
[02:41:25] company you can get former special operations and former combat aviation leaders
[02:41:34] that are leaving the military that have been trained and have been proven with their leadership skills
[02:41:40] and you can hire them to come into your company and utilize their leadership skills
[02:41:46] to help your team and your company win go to EF over watch dot com for that and if you feel
[02:41:56] like there's a bunch of topics that we haven't really covered in depth enough yet and you want to
[02:42:01] continue to discuss them with us and you can find us on the inner webs we're on Twitter we're on
[02:42:08] Instagram and we're on Dine Freezenbuck Echo is that Echo Charles Davis at David our
[02:42:20] Burke BER K E and I am at Jockawilling Echo anything else Dave anything else negative
[02:42:28] thanks for coming out man dude it's so good to be here and thanks to
[02:42:32] you well thanks to all of our armed forces that are out there right now that are standing on that wall
[02:42:41] and keep an us safe and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs
[02:42:49] and dispatchers and correctional officers border patrol secret service all the first responders
[02:42:55] thank you for standing inside that wall and keeping us safe here at home and to everyone else that's
[02:43:04] out there try to remember how the marine corps wins the Marine Corps wins by constantly taking
[02:43:19] initiative by chasing the enemy down to the last man and killing him and throwing his remains
[02:43:29] into the river that's how you fight do that do that with your own personal wars do that to your
[02:43:41] own personal weaknesses and do not delay in the attack the time is now so get up and go get after it
[02:43:55] and until next time this is Dave and Echo and Jockaw out