Jocko Podcast 189 w/ Dave Berke: Adaptability Is The Law That Governs Survival in War and In Life

2019-08-11T06:50:11Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @davidrberke @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:03 - MCDP 1-3: Tactics  1:37:34 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:38:39 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/jocko-fuel/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko Jocko White Tea: http://www.jockotea.com 2:03:26 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

I'm going to look to my left I'm going to look to my right I'm going to assess where my guys are make sure I know that then I'm going to start assessing where the enemy is once I've done that guess what I'm going to do I'm going to make the little littleist move that I can possibly make that's going to move me in the direction that I suspect is the right way to go. The answer is give them less direction and give them the training given the mindset given the authority given the repetitions given the pattern recognition given the standard operating procedure and the immediate action drill and I've talked about this before part of the immediate action drill that you need to have is what you're going to do when you don't know what's going on because there's a process that you can follow when you don't know what is happening what you need to do if I start getting shot at and I don't know what's happening But you can't show pain in mojitai Like literally that's kind of the rule like if you show pain, it's like you fundamentally didn't follow the protocol You know you seem saying it's like an official thing because when they see the pain They're just gonna go if you go oh dang that leg kick hurt even if you just go like this go So you know think about that think about that with your Jiu-jitsu coach your martial arts instructor What is your move gonna do what's your immediate action drill when someone gets in your face when someone grabs you how you gonna break contact and Get away have a good SOP and a good immediate action drill for that All right same thing with boxing by the way, and I right you know when you see a guy in trouble In boxing The examples and if you go deep and deep, the stories of guys charging machine guns nests weren't waiting for the commander to come down and say, charge the machine gun nests, you're actually, if you have that level of trust, you are so front and front, I don't need job to tell me that because I actually know you may, I know you may come down to tell, but I know that's going to happen before you come down and tell me to men get online. There's a decent chance it's gonna work Unfortunately once that initial wall is over if you're not ready to adapt to that person that Cavers up grabs a hole to your whatever and start some maneuver on you well than you're you have a problem So there's a there's a chance it's gonna work but you have to be able to adapt afterwards Same thing in a firefight, you know someone starts shooting you we know the the Vietnam guys taught us And have closed environment like the jungle where there's no other friendly forces around and you're in a squad of See a squad of seals of eight guys you get contacted everyone drops down in their field of fire and dumb Samagging tilt was talking about that the friends when we're talking about that they would drop down Man We must be able to do both and this is one of those things where I was listening to As in a Jordan Peterson yesterday and He was talking about how there's like the creative people and then the other side of the spectrum is I don't know the conscientious people and and most people are either creative or their conscientious Conscientious meaning that they'll do what they're told they'll do it to the best of their ability They're very duty-focused They're very reliable the creative people obviously are like none of those things and and he was saying Creative people are poor so this is the other form the second basic way to adapt is to improvise to adjust to a situation on the spur of the moment without any Preparation like anticipation improvisation is the key to maneuver is key to maneuver warfare Improvisation requires creative intelligence Intelligent and experienced leaders who have an intuition Intuitive appreciation for what will work and what will not Improvisation is of critical importance to increasing speed it requires commanders who have his strong situational awareness and a firm understanding of their senior commanders intense so that they can adjust their own actions in accordance with the higher commanders desires Often we will find ourselves in a situation where our organic resources weapons vehicles and so on are not adequate to keep us moving fast in France 1940 German general Heinz Guirdian put some of his infantry in common deered French buses On Grenada when army Rangers needed vehicles they took East German trucks belonging to the Grenadian army Sound on north of the box there is nothing Orthodox about failure due to an inability to adapt Improvisation and this is one of those ones where You this is where you start to see a Leader that can't that doesn't have the creative aspect to his thought process This is where you see when when the situation demands true improvisation This is where you see a little crack in the in the armor of the highly Concernions conscientious leader. Each situation is a unique combination of shifting factors that cannot be controlled with precision or certainty This chapter discusses ways to think about adapting or modifying our decisions based on changed circumstances or sudden opportunities Attractically proficient leader must be able to adapt actions to each situation the Utilup discussed in chapter four essentially describes the process of adaptation We observe the situation oriented to it decide what to do and act the antagonist who can consistently adapt more quickly to the situation We'll have a significant advantage adaptability is thus an important part of marine cortex There's something you don't think of every day that adaptability is literally part of marine cortex In essence adaptability means shortening the time it takes to adjust to each new situation We see this with businesses all the time businesses that either Adapt and win or don't adapt and lose I talked about this a lot when we would have You'd have a tactical situation SOPs for For your actions when you didn't know what to do so if you looked at a situation and didn't really understand what you should do You still have to do something going wings level and flying shit head is a death sentence So our SOP for reaction to being shot out was what we called lift vector on and pull basically means point of the guy pull as hard as you can We let's pull do pull closes the distance between the two views and moves the airplane from the piece of Scott that you're into some other piece of Sky and makes the closure happen as fast as you can to try to minimize the distance What you're trying to create a separation I remember the puzzle kind of curious look on this face when I am telling him, just because he hadn't really experienced before like, listen, I trust that you are going to make the right decision you are going to make things happen. It's quickly as possible because if I extend away from that or do nothing You get more opportunity to get to more advantageous position But me pulling directly towards you isn't the right answer I don't know what the right if I knew what the right answer was I wouldn't be here in the first place So my SOP is I have to close the distance right away and the good pilots The amount of time was sometimes would take a half a second for they adjust that maneuver that you try to have to kind of have to have or if you really want to take it to the next level Back to the book anticipation the first basic way to adapt is to anticipate by which we mean to Introduce new method schemes and techniques for future use In order to anticipate we must be able to forecast future actions at least to some extent Our forecasts are usually based on past experiences often a forecast involves considering what we learned through trial and error In training exercises or actual combat and Excellent example of anticipation is the Marine Corps development of amphibious warfare techniques at Quantico During the 1920s and 30s these techniques proved to be essential to the success in World War II in both the Pacific and in Europe All planning at all echelons is a form of anticipatory Participation adaptation adapting our actions in advance another important tool for tactical adaptation is the use of immediate action drills or standard operating procedures Why do I always call it standard operating? so if I get separation from you I can attack you and I if on the defender I want to close that separation and bring that fight down as close as I can But the reality is that me putting my lift vector on and pulling towards you isn't the right answer What I actually need to do is figure out I apply that SOP and as soon as I do that I need to engage my brain to think okay, now where do I need to really go which is maybe up an actress or some other reaction The SOP in an airplane was that maneuver which is no different than dump your mag I mean I think it means foreign The rest early or just I won't say super positive, but no, it's it's Because you know when you go to Thailand and the fallong's go to they's the the fallong like a drunk European dude Is off like that little tie guy put me in the ring with him and they go okay? When you hear me say, flank, I am not going to tell you where to go, but you know what you know what I mean when I say flank, I mean I want you to go on a straight, mergers free right now. I I will up the level of spice sure one to 10 at the Thai restaurant that I go to and over a year I went you know from five to seven to nine one time I went in there and nine You know no factor eight no factor like taste good Yeah, that's that's the probably the biggest Thing that App holds people from adapting is there they're not they're just their ego so big that they're thinking I'm ready to change People who aren't humble can't change period because they think they got everything figured out that got everything right and they don't change and That's the recipe for failure. I'm going to lose some of my men to do that and that burden of doing that, think about how much trust is required from the leadership side to cultivate a response from my subordinates who know their men are going to die. But they get like tapped out at a certain point Because they don't have that spark of creativity that they can look at a rapidly changing situation and go I know what we're gonna do So Occasionally and and and a lot of times those people that are creative are too creative for the military and they end up leaving because they can't stand the constraints that are put on them Well, and I think you just described as, is you're going to immediately back into the Udolub to orient yourself to what's going on, decide what you're going to do next and act. But if I was fighting against a guy who was at my level or better there are times he would do things that I had to react to and The time frame that takes me to react to an SOP to the right thing the short of that time frame the more likely is I'm gonna be successful and if I don't know what to do They take him like even more leg kicks to that same leg every time it's like That's the SOP you see little little pain on the guys face whatever you just keep hitting that thing And it's good thing to think about from a self defense perspective martial arts wise like you should have some standard operating procedures some immediate action drills That you're gonna do that are just gonna get you I would think that like in like the natural world that the intuition is going to be correct. How often do we see the, the, the leader that thinks that the more detail they put into a plan, the better off they're going to be and the better people are going to understand it all the time. Hey, when we set the breach here, that's going to drive people in this direction, out of the building, if they try to escape, they're going to go off this back door, this back window, boom, we'll be waiting right there for them or whatever.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel podcast number 189 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink. Good evening, I go good evening and joining us once again is
[00:00:10] Dave Burke, good evening Dave good evening and on the last two podcasts
[00:00:16] Dave and I dug into the first four chapters of the Marine Corps
[00:00:21] Doctorinal publications MCDP one-tack three tactics. So if you haven't listened to those podcasts
[00:00:26] go start there and if you have listened to them then we are diving into chapter five.
[00:00:36] You and I were talking over the weekend about how you read these in the basic school
[00:00:46] versus how you read them now or how you read it this time around. Yeah. There's a pretty big difference.
[00:00:53] Yeah, there's a huge difference. I was saying when you asked about how to read these and I read them we got hand to them in a stack of
[00:01:02] Pub so all the Marine Corps manuals probably a foot-high stack of these white books as we'll booklets and at the time it was a chore
[00:01:10] It's like something I had to do to pass a test. I didn't look for any real content. I was looking for the answers of the test and that was about it
[00:01:16] It wasn't until I went back and looked at them again with a totally different set of eyes and how
[00:01:21] Man so many things I could have learned if I actually read it differently the first time
[00:01:27] There's I mean I think it has to do when you can overlay your own experience on it is what makes it more
[00:01:36] Makes the lessons more obvious but
[00:01:39] These books are written so clearly. They're so straightforward. They're so straightforward. Yeah, so clear
[00:01:45] And and it's it's amazing that the Marine Corps can pull this off because normally you would think to yourself
[00:01:51] Okay, if I told you okay Dave
[00:01:54] You me and eight of our friends are gonna write a book by committee. It would be a total nightmare
[00:02:00] It would not come out good it would be the most convoluted and confusing thing ever and it would be a total disaster the Marine Corps
[00:02:07] Somehow I would love to go and I would love to see how they did this I would love to see how they did this because
[00:02:15] What I imagine had to have happened there was one single human that
[00:02:22] Had a good grip on the vision and said okay and everyone else this is the most important part
[00:02:28] Everyone else kind of respected that vision and respected that person yep
[00:02:32] I don't even know who that person was they had to to to pull this off in the Marine Corps. They had to be
[00:02:39] someone
[00:02:40] For lack of a better word. They had to be someone legit
[00:02:44] To be in there and say okay listen you know we're we're leaving out that section and not have everyone up in arms and big debates
[00:02:51] Yeah, and you couldn't have a bunch of guys that wanted to put their little spin on it to make it their own thing
[00:02:56] They wanted it and you know all eight chapters
[00:02:58] I guess there's a tiny little bit of nuance and some of them me a little bit different
[00:03:03] But it almost is if the same person I know it's not one guy, but it's that's the same thing all the way through the same theme
[00:03:09] And there's not one chapter in there that is oh, this is too complex. So this doesn't really get to the point
[00:03:13] They're all they're all the same and what you described I've been in some of those meetings not not to write a publication
[00:03:19] Everything's done by committee you get five guys in a room and you do this and somebody deferred to somebody else
[00:03:24] But there's a vision on this from the first word to the last word that is throughout and it requires actually people recognizing
[00:03:32] Hey, that guy's ideas that that's what we're doing and everybody gets it gets around and buying that
[00:03:36] Yeah, so not only not only is it amazing the amount of
[00:03:40] Intelligence and knowledge that was in the room but the amount of humility for someone to listen to someone else say hey
[00:03:47] I just wrote this part. I just wrote these three sentences and for someone to else to sit in the back
[00:03:52] Then we go you know what those are good leave them how they are there's a massive amount of
[00:03:59] Humility in in writing this thing and putting this thing together
[00:04:03] So let's go back to the book chapter five chapter five is called
[00:04:09] adapting
[00:04:11] It starts off with a couple quotes victory smiles upon those who anticipate the changes in the character of war not upon those who wait
[00:04:22] to adapt themselves after they occur
[00:04:30] Hmm
[00:04:32] That's
[00:04:34] Guleo do it which I'm sure I'm saying wrong some an Italian an Italian general who is a
[00:04:43] Air power theorist you probably learned about him in
[00:04:49] Some somewhere along your course of life. Yeah for sure because he was early on he was thought we're talking by plane
[00:04:56] Yeah power that's what he was talking about
[00:04:59] Air power could break the will of the enemy is kind of one of his one of his theories
[00:05:03] Which is true to a point to a point to a point. It's true. All right next quote
[00:05:10] In any problem where an opposing force exists and cannot be regulated one must foresee and provide for alternative courses
[00:05:17] Adaptability is the law which govern survival in wars
[00:05:22] As in life
[00:05:24] War being but a concentrated form of the human struggle against the environment hmm
[00:05:29] BH little heart so
[00:05:33] What what what what what's one of my quote? I have a quote
[00:05:38] Right I'm quoting myself, but I've said this for a long time
[00:05:42] I think the quote is combat reflects life only amplified and intensified so BH
[00:05:49] little heart who's
[00:05:50] British soldier world war one military historian
[00:05:53] Very very prolific military theorist he said it even better than me of course wars a concentrated form of the human struggle
[00:06:03] Against the environment
[00:06:05] So you have to be able to adapt that's the name of this chapter
[00:06:09] And here we go it kicks off the modern battlefield battlefield is characterized by friction uncertainty disorder and rapid change
[00:06:17] I like working in environment that's characterized by friction uncertainty disorder and rapid change
[00:06:24] Those are like the things that horrify all human beings
[00:06:28] Uncertainty everyone hates that disorder at most people hate that and rapid change everyone hates that
[00:06:35] And that's what as a military human that's what you've got to be that's what you got to be ready for and that's what you got to train for and that's what you got to be
[00:06:41] For lack of order you've got to learn to love that stuff. Yeah, I mean what in life that you do that matters isn't characterized by those words something that's actually important yeah
[00:06:50] Each situation is a unique combination of shifting factors that cannot be controlled with precision or certainty
[00:06:57] This chapter discusses ways to think about adapting or modifying our decisions based on changed circumstances or sudden opportunities
[00:07:04] Attractically proficient leader must be able to adapt actions to each situation the
[00:07:11] Utilup discussed in chapter four essentially describes the process of adaptation
[00:07:17] We observe the situation oriented to it decide what to do and act the antagonist who can consistently adapt more quickly to the situation
[00:07:24] We'll have a significant advantage adaptability is thus an important part of marine cortex
[00:07:30] There's something you don't think of every day that adaptability is literally part of marine cortex
[00:07:38] In essence adaptability means shortening the time it takes to adjust to each new situation
[00:07:45] We see this with businesses all the time
[00:07:47] businesses that either
[00:07:49] Adapt and win or don't adapt and lose
[00:07:53] Yeah, we see businesses that they'll lay out a plan that how this big strategy this how I see things going and the ones that stick to that and refuse to
[00:08:01] Adjust and recognize that that their environment is changing they force themselves around that initial plan and don't adjust
[00:08:07] They fail and a
[00:08:09] The connection from combat to business we make that connection all the time and it's the exact same thing is your plan is gonna change your world is gonna change quickly
[00:08:16] And you better adapt and if you can you'll be safe you'll be fine. You'll be successful and if you can't
[00:08:20] Is not gonna work if you don't have humility you want to adapt because you're gonna think that the way you're doing it is fine
[00:08:26] Yeah, that's that's the probably the biggest
[00:08:30] Thing that
[00:08:32] App holds people from adapting is there they're not they're just their ego so big that they're thinking I'm ready to change
[00:08:39] People who aren't humble can't change period because they think they got everything figured out that got everything right and they don't change and
[00:08:45] That's the recipe for failure. It's all throughout this book
[00:08:47] Back to the book there are two basic ways to adapt
[00:08:51] Sometimes we have enough situational awareness to understand a situation in advance and take prepared prepared to reaction
[00:08:57] This is anticipation at other times we have to adapt the situation on the spur of the moment without time for preparation
[00:09:04] This is improvisation to be fully adaptable. We must be able to do both and this is one of those things where I was listening to
[00:09:12] As in a Jordan Peterson yesterday and
[00:09:18] He was talking about how there's like the creative people and then the other side of the spectrum is
[00:09:23] I don't know the conscientious people and and most people are either creative or their conscientious
[00:09:31] Conscientious meaning that they'll do what they're told they'll do it to the best of their ability
[00:09:34] They're very duty-focused
[00:09:37] They're very reliable the creative people obviously are like none of those things and and he
[00:09:42] was saying
[00:09:43] Creative people are poor
[00:09:44] You know this basic thing is if you're creative you're not you're not building a future
[00:09:49] You're not doing reliable things on a discipline basis and occasionally you get people that are highly disciplined
[00:09:56] Then creative and there be successful
[00:09:58] Sometimes you get people that are highly creative and he said there's this tiny percentage of people
[00:10:03] that are wildly successful
[00:10:06] Creative people write some songwriter some artists some filmmaker that's and oftentimes they're crazy
[00:10:13] You see this with fighters too like a wildly
[00:10:16] Creative fighter
[00:10:18] They're they're if they have that small percentage that they're gonna be successful in fighting
[00:10:23] But a lot of times they're the rest of their life is not in good order
[00:10:27] Right, it is not in good order
[00:10:29] So I've said this that your standard military guy
[00:10:34] Girl whoever
[00:10:37] If they are on the far end of conscientions they'll be really really good like oh yeah
[00:10:42] They're gonna get promoted. They're gonna do is they're told they're gonna follow the orders and they're be good
[00:10:47] I'm not saying that in a negative way at all like they're squared away and it's awesome and they're great to work for
[00:10:53] They want to do a good job
[00:10:55] But they get like tapped out at a certain point
[00:10:58] Because they don't have that spark of creativity that they can look at a rapidly changing situation and go
[00:11:06] I know what we're gonna do
[00:11:08] So
[00:11:09] Occasionally and and and a lot of times those people that are creative are too creative for the military and they end up leaving because they can't stand the constraints that are put on them
[00:11:17] So
[00:11:18] You know even when you read about people like patent people that were wildly successful
[00:11:23] They and they also were they were regimented and creative at the same time so
[00:11:31] Interesting dichotomy that you try to have to kind of have to have or if you really want to take it to the next level
[00:11:38] Back to the book anticipation the first basic way to adapt is to anticipate by which we mean to
[00:11:43] Introduce new method schemes and techniques for future use
[00:11:48] In order to anticipate we must be able to forecast future actions at least to some extent
[00:11:52] Our forecasts are usually based on past experiences often a forecast involves considering what we learned through trial and error
[00:11:59] In training exercises or actual combat and
[00:12:02] Excellent example of anticipation is the Marine Corps development of amphibious warfare techniques at Quantico
[00:12:09] During the 1920s and 30s these techniques proved to be essential to the success in World War II in both the Pacific and in Europe
[00:12:18] All planning at all echelons is a form of anticipatory
[00:12:24] Participation adaptation adapting our actions in advance another important tool for tactical adaptation is the use of immediate action drills or standard operating procedures
[00:12:38] Why do I always call it standard operating?
[00:12:40] They called it standing operating procedures. You think that's a misprint you think a misprint made it through the Marine Corps
[00:12:46] It's always been standard as far as I know. This is like a standing operating because I think we have a little misprint will will write to the editor
[00:12:54] Standard operating procedures. These are practice pre-design generic actions which cover
[00:12:59] Common situations
[00:13:01] Having a collection of these tools at our disposal allows us to react immediately in a coordinated way to a broad variety of tactical situations
[00:13:10] You meet eat action drills do not replace the need for tactical judgment. They merely provide a way to season initiative in the early stages of developing this other developing situation
[00:13:18] Until we can take more considered action. They provide the basis for adaptation
[00:13:26] Very important to have some good standard operating procedures
[00:13:33] with martial arts
[00:13:35] in the early
[00:13:37] 90s in the in the seal teams. They were experimenting with a lot of different martial arts and part of
[00:13:44] some of the systems that they brought in
[00:13:47] Was they just had a standard immediate action drill that you are going to go through if
[00:13:52] X happened you are going to throw nine throat punches followed by a kick to the groin followed by a face rake
[00:13:59] They just and and
[00:14:01] If you if you if you did that if someone walks up to you in a bar and
[00:14:07] Shubs you and you deliver nine punches to the throat face rake kick to the groin
[00:14:12] Like and people say yeah, it works well, you know what you're right?
[00:14:17] That's that's actually true if you have a standard operating procedure that you're going to go to
[00:14:22] That's just hyper aggressive in a street fight. There's a decent chance it's gonna work
[00:14:27] Unfortunately once that initial wall is over if you're not ready to adapt to that person that
[00:14:34] Cavers up grabs a hole to your whatever and start some maneuver on you well than you're you have a problem
[00:14:39] So there's a there's a chance it's gonna work but you have to be able to adapt afterwards
[00:14:43] Same thing in a firefight, you know someone starts shooting you we know the the Vietnam guys taught us
[00:14:48] And have closed environment like the jungle where there's no other friendly forces around and you're in a squad of
[00:14:52] See a squad of seals of eight guys you get contacted everyone drops down in their field of fire and dumb
[00:14:59] Samagging tilt was talking about that the friends when we're talking about that they would drop down
[00:15:03] Man it was crazy here that story where he says they all dump their mags at the same time and then there's silence
[00:15:10] As everyone's trying to do a mag change that silence which probably felt like 14 years was probably
[00:15:15] Probably probably three seconds it was probably three seconds and and and but that's the standard out same standard operating
[00:15:23] Precision oh we just got contacted we're gonna lay down some lead so you get that really good aggressive
[00:15:29] immediate action drill
[00:15:31] Then you have to be able to learn how to think and that's where some of those early martial arts systems
[00:15:36] They succeeded in that initial volley and then the adaptation piece if it went beyond that
[00:15:42] We're talking mission failure
[00:15:44] We used to teach at top again. I talked about this a lot when we would have
[00:15:49] You'd have a tactical situation SOPs for
[00:15:52] For your actions when you didn't know what to do so if you looked at a situation and didn't really understand what you should do
[00:15:58] You still have to do something going wings level and flying shit head is a death sentence
[00:16:02] So our SOP for reaction to being shot out was what we called lift vector on and pull basically means point of the guy pull as hard as you can
[00:16:08] We let's pull do pull closes the distance between the two views and moves the airplane from the piece of Scott that you're into some other piece of
[00:16:15] Sky and makes the closure happen as fast as you can to try to minimize the distance
[00:16:19] What you're trying to create a separation so if I get separation from you I can attack you and I if on the defender
[00:16:24] I want to close that separation and bring that fight down as close as I can
[00:16:28] But the reality is that me putting my lift vector on and pulling towards you isn't the right answer
[00:16:33] What I actually need to do is figure out I apply that SOP and as soon as I do that
[00:16:37] I need to engage my brain to think okay, now where do I need to really go which is maybe up an actress or some other reaction
[00:16:43] The SOP in an airplane was that maneuver which is no different than dump your mag
[00:16:47] It was to close the gap of time till you actually figured out what's going on what's a situation
[00:16:52] And that's the adaptation you're talking about the SOP really was just a gap filler until you could get your brain engaged to doing the right thing
[00:16:58] So you want to close the distance on the enemy. You want to get closer to them. Yeah, so if I am let's say you and I are across from each other
[00:17:05] And you're shooting you're gonna shoot at me and I see that you're in a position to employ a weapon against me
[00:17:10] I actually want to close the distance between you and me as fast as I can to get inside your your weapons range
[00:17:15] It's quickly as possible because if I extend away from that or do nothing
[00:17:19] You get more opportunity to get to more advantageous position
[00:17:22] But me pulling directly towards you isn't the right answer
[00:17:24] I don't know what the right if I knew what the right answer was I wouldn't be here in the first place
[00:17:28] So my SOP is I have to close the distance right away and the good pilots
[00:17:32] The amount of time was sometimes would take a half a second for they adjust that maneuver
[00:17:37] But that immediate action that SOP is left vector on a opponent airplane would you ever be able to be ahead of your SOP in other words?
[00:17:45] Yeah, you're laughing like I'm gonna. Yeah, no, no, I'm laughing because I think you know the answer
[00:17:50] Depending on who you're fighting if I'm fighting someone who is not as experienced and hasn't seen this before
[00:17:55] And doesn't have that role decks of can't anticipate because he hasn't seen it. I'm never reacting
[00:17:59] I'm never reacting to what he's doing. I'm always not just out in front of him. I'm moves out in front of him
[00:18:04] But if I was fighting against a guy who was at my level or better there are times he would do things that I had to react to and
[00:18:10] The time frame that takes me to react to an SOP to the right thing the short of that time frame the more likely is
[00:18:16] I'm gonna be successful and if I don't know what to do and I just spend the entire fight lift vector on and pull
[00:18:22] I'm gonna lose and that SOP was something that eventually you actually got past and almost never had to do it
[00:18:27] Because you weren't there in the first place. You were thinking moves ahead and get there
[00:18:30] Yeah, so that's a good thing to think about too
[00:18:32] And it's good thing to think about from a self defense perspective martial arts wise like you should have some standard operating procedures some immediate action drills
[00:18:39] That you're gonna do that are just gonna get you and you know closing the distance for a jiu-jiu guy is real
[00:18:46] Instinctive if you watched the UFC or whatever a wrestler or a jiu-jiu guy once they start getting banged up
[00:18:52] And they don't really know what to do there instinct take over and they just shoot and close the distance and try and get in
[00:18:57] That's not always the best thing in a in a street fight in fact it often isn't what we want to do is break contact
[00:19:02] So you know think about that think about that with your
[00:19:06] Jiu-jitsu coach your martial arts instructor
[00:19:09] What is your move gonna do what's your immediate action drill when someone gets in your face when someone grabs you how you gonna break contact and
[00:19:17] Get away have a good
[00:19:19] SOP and a good immediate action drill for that
[00:19:22] All right
[00:19:23] same thing with boxing by the way, and I right you know when you see a guy in trouble
[00:19:28] In boxing yeah, you'll like try to hug him even though the other person necessarily the box
[00:19:32] Yeah, but oh, yeah, that's the thing to get him out of trouble. Yeah, so he can how you say like you are gazing your brain and
[00:19:38] You actually want to get inside the range of their weapons system
[00:19:42] Yeah, they more entire that doesn't work quite as well because you get inside and you're getting elbowed in the face or you're getting a need in the ribs
[00:19:49] You kind of need to the rib before yes, sir. Oh, that's not fun. No, it's enough
[00:19:54] You don't even when you're watching a mojitai fight because they're so hard core
[00:19:58] They get need in the rib and you think all that must not hurt real bad. Yeah. Well, here's the thing
[00:20:03] In mojitai this is an actual like
[00:20:05] Thing you can't show when you you get hurt right like if you get hit in the legs legs
[00:20:10] Soaks too bad. Oh, yeah, yeah, but anything in the ribs. Oh, 100% but yeah, that need the oh, yeah, it's bad
[00:20:16] But you can't show pain in mojitai
[00:20:18] Like literally that's kind of the rule like if you show pain, it's like you fundamentally didn't follow the protocol
[00:20:25] You know you seem saying it's like an official thing because when they see the pain
[00:20:28] They're just gonna go if you go oh dang that leg kick hurt even if you just go like this go
[00:20:32] Yeah, or even limp on it or if you see and you smile
[00:20:35] Which is your way and oh no that didn't hurt everyone. Oh, yes, and you see the leg kicks just keep coming like one dang
[00:20:41] They take him like even more leg kicks to that same leg every time it's like
[00:20:46] That's the SOP you see little little pain on the guys face whatever you just keep hitting that thing
[00:20:50] But yeah, there's another SOP in Thailand
[00:20:53] That I learned about well, it's it's maybe it's not in Thailand, but it's definitely with Thai food in America
[00:20:59] You every Thai food? Yes, sir. All right
[00:21:01] So I get you know I I will up the level of spice sure one to 10 at the Thai restaurant that I go to and over a year
[00:21:09] I went you know from five to seven to nine one time I went in there and nine
[00:21:15] You know no factor eight no factor like taste good
[00:21:18] I went in there one time and he said well what type of spice would you like today sir and I said 10
[00:21:25] They made me something
[00:21:27] That was psycho like it was almost inedible. I ate it just out of
[00:21:33] Sheer yeah ego I just ate it, but I with my mouth was on fire and so the waitress like when I ordered it
[00:21:42] She kind of looked at me like this is not a good move
[00:21:46] But I didn't what I didn't realize so then the next time I came I said hey
[00:21:51] Last time I came I you know I asked for 10. I don't want 10 again
[00:21:54] I said when I asked for 10 is that like an insult slash challenge to the kitchen and she said oh, yes
[00:22:03] So so don't order 10 unless you want your face to be on fire and that makes sense too
[00:22:09] Because when you're over here like nine no factor, you know ten should be incrementally should be consistent
[00:22:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so the way nine was 10 should have been a little bit more right to the difference between eight and nine or even at least
[00:22:22] Establish some sort of a pattern. You see like if the increment between eight and nine is like a four
[00:22:26] Maybe nine and ten is like eight. Okay, I dig it, but that's all that fallong
[00:22:30] That's that's the the in Thailand they call the foreigners fallong. I mean I think it means foreign
[00:22:36] The rest early or just
[00:22:38] I won't say super positive, but no, it's it's
[00:22:42] Because you know when you go to Thailand and the fallong's go to they's the the fallong like a drunk European dude
[00:22:49] Is off like that little tie guy put me in the ring with him and they go okay? Okay? Okay, and they put the big German dude in there
[00:22:57] Whatever who's not a fighter he's just a guy who's 200 and
[00:23:02] 238 pounds of of beer and they put him in there against a 142 pound
[00:23:10] tie kid that just hacks him apart with with leg kicks and just annihilates him
[00:23:17] So anyways, so that we can you at the tire right now
[00:23:20] Two pieces not with leg kicks, but with whatever spice they put in there so use caution
[00:23:30] Back to the book
[00:23:36] Improvisation so this is the other form the second basic way to adapt is to improvise to adjust to a situation on the spur of the moment without any
[00:23:44] Preparation like anticipation improvisation is the key to maneuver is key to maneuver warfare
[00:23:51] Improvisation requires creative intelligence
[00:23:54] Intelligent and experienced leaders who have an intuition
[00:23:58] Intuitive appreciation for what will work and what will not
[00:24:02] Improvisation is of critical importance to increasing speed it requires commanders who have his strong
[00:24:08] situational awareness and a firm understanding of their senior commanders intense so that they can adjust their own actions
[00:24:15] in accordance with the higher commanders desires
[00:24:20] Often we will find ourselves in a situation where our organic resources weapons vehicles and so on are not adequate to keep us moving fast
[00:24:30] in France 1940
[00:24:32] German general Heinz
[00:24:34] Guirdian put some of his infantry in common deered French buses
[00:24:40] On Grenada when army Rangers needed vehicles they took East German trucks belonging to the Grenadian army
[00:24:47] Sound on north of the box there is nothing
[00:24:50] Orthodox about failure due to an inability to adapt
[00:24:57] Improvisation and this is one of those ones where
[00:24:59] You this is where you start to see a
[00:25:04] Leader that can't that doesn't have the creative aspect to his thought process
[00:25:10] This is where you see when when the situation demands true improvisation
[00:25:15] This is where you see a little crack in the in the armor of the highly
[00:25:20] Concernions conscientious leader. Yeah. That's the guy you're talking about before and and both of these things
[00:25:26] And it should realize that these are both learned things.
[00:25:29] The ability to anticipate is not just some sort of magical vision that you're born with.
[00:25:34] They talk about reps over and over again.
[00:25:37] But even this idea of improvising, it's what is learned there as a recognition is, hey,
[00:25:42] my skill said here, my bag of tricks, I don't have what I need to actually make happen,
[00:25:45] what I need to have happen.
[00:25:46] I understand the intent, I don't have the resources to hand.
[00:25:48] So I actually need to recognize this is the time to improvise.
[00:25:52] And it's that rigid, conscientious thinking that doesn't allow you to sit, you know what?
[00:25:57] And it's not just totally winging it, it's not just on the fly, it's recognizing,
[00:26:01] I need to come up with a creative solution here because what I have available doesn't work.
[00:26:05] And those rigid leaders and I know who you're talking about, I've seen them throughout my career,
[00:26:08] they simply don't have that place where they can go.
[00:26:11] And you have to, when at times in a most critical, you have to be able to go there.
[00:26:16] And the good leaders, that's the creative piece that they need to be to be to be tapped into in a career.
[00:26:21] You know what I notice is, if you can't detach from the situation, you won't be able to be creative.
[00:26:29] When I'm looking at a problem, I sometimes have to consciously detach from the situation
[00:26:37] and take a different look at it.
[00:26:39] Because what you will see, we all are kind of brainwashed into just pattern recognition
[00:26:45] and then applying the appropriate known tested solution.
[00:26:51] But when you look at something, you don't really see a pattern what you do is you try and apply a pattern that you've seen in the past.
[00:26:57] And that's a positive thing that makes us.
[00:27:00] But sometimes that pattern is just too far off.
[00:27:02] It's just not quite there.
[00:27:04] And all you'll do is try and apply the prescription that you have to that problem.
[00:27:10] And it's not going to work out.
[00:27:12] And for me, when I see a problem, I always have to say, okay, take a step back and look at this from a different angle.
[00:27:19] Because if you don't do that, if you don't do that, you're not going to see how far off your pattern recognition actually is.
[00:27:27] And it can be far off.
[00:27:29] Yeah.
[00:27:30] And sometimes see that pattern recognition, that is a good thing like you described,
[00:27:34] tells you, oh, I need this, I need air support here.
[00:27:37] I need heavy machine guns here.
[00:27:38] Okay, I have this, the answer.
[00:27:40] It's like, well, guess what, you don't have that resource today.
[00:27:42] That thing that you say you need, it doesn't exist.
[00:27:46] So what are you going to do now?
[00:27:48] And that's when you see, you can see people panic in those situations because they don't think there's a solution available to them.
[00:27:54] And the reality is, there is, if you can do what you just described,
[00:27:57] but they think pattern recognition situation dictates this is what I use.
[00:28:00] And if that tool that they are used to having doesn't exist for them there, that's when they panic.
[00:28:05] And that's when that's the worst case situation for them is they don't think there's an out.
[00:28:09] You can actually surround yourself with people that can help you there.
[00:28:11] You know, you can actually have other people say, hey, I saw this on a way in.
[00:28:15] I think there's a solution here.
[00:28:17] And that's where the humility piece requires is, hey, what do you see?
[00:28:20] Man, I see this and somebody else can actually lead you down that road and set up just refusing the bud from your position and setting your whole team up to fail.
[00:28:28] Not a good plan.
[00:28:29] No.
[00:28:30] In Provis, back to the book.
[00:28:33] For instance, take the situation in which Marines of the second baton fifth Marine Regiment found themselves in the Battle of Way City,
[00:28:41] Republican Vietnam in February of 1968.
[00:28:45] One of their first objectives was to retake the city's treasury building, which was heavily defended by the North Vietnamese.
[00:28:51] Prior to the assault, the Marines were disappointed to see that their mortar fire was having little effect on the building or its defenders.
[00:28:58] In the executive officer found some US tear gas canisters and dispensers in the military assistance compound they had reoccupied.
[00:29:07] Realizing the North Vietnamese lacked gas masks, the Marines proceeded to lob tear gas canisters into the treasury building.
[00:29:15] As a result of the executive officer's quick thinking and adaptation, the North Vietnamese quickly vacated the building and the Marines secured the objective with minimal casualties.
[00:29:27] That seems real obvious when you're looking back at it.
[00:29:29] But this is one of those situations where exactly what you were just talking about.
[00:29:33] If you, I could, and I would say you can watch and I have watched many military or leaders in that exact situation.
[00:29:42] When I was running training, I saw it all the time.
[00:29:44] These guys would, they know what the standard operating procedure is and they would just stick with it.
[00:29:48] I would give all kinds of answers would be floating around the battlefield form and they wouldn't seem until you learned to take a step back.
[00:29:56] So this is a great example and it seems so obvious.
[00:30:00] But it's not that obvious when you're in the situation.
[00:30:03] And when you're emotional about the situation, yeah, it's really hard to see that when you're emotional.
[00:30:09] Back to the book, flexible plans.
[00:30:11] We have several techniques to help us develop adaptability.
[00:30:15] One of these is to make flexible plans.
[00:30:17] Flexible, flexible plans can enhance adaptability by establishing a course of action that provides for multiple options.
[00:30:24] For example, a blocking position that covers two avenues of approach from the same location instead of only one provides the flexibility to adapt to an enemy coming through either avenue.
[00:30:35] We can increase our flexibility by providing branches for current and future operations.
[00:30:42] And those are like little branch plans that just branch off of all the main plan branches are options.
[00:30:51] We're going to be changing this position, orientation, strength, movement or accepting or declining battle.
[00:30:58] To deal with changing conditions on the battlefield that may affect the plan.
[00:31:02] Flexibility can also be increased by providing sequels for the current and future operation sequels are courses of action to follow probable battle or engagement outcomes.
[00:31:13] Victory, defeat or stalemate.
[00:31:19] I have a note here that I wrote to myself.
[00:31:22] And the note that I wrote to myself, it says, it's okay.
[00:31:27] And I put these in quotes.
[00:31:29] It's okay. Then we will do something else effective that moves us toward our goal.
[00:31:34] That's like such a good answer.
[00:31:38] Oh, we've become stagnant.
[00:31:41] It's okay.
[00:31:42] Like think about that from a, from your an all leadership position or no, think about it from a subordinate position.
[00:31:47] You hit a wall and you can't get through.
[00:31:50] And you look at your leader and your leader says, it's okay.
[00:31:52] We're going to do something else that's going to be effective that's going to move us toward our goal.
[00:31:56] Oh, and that seems, it's really easy to look at these things and say, well, that's real obvious.
[00:32:02] I'm telling you, it is not obvious unless you train yourself to start thinking that way.
[00:32:07] It is not obvious.
[00:32:09] There's a reason that's in this book.
[00:32:11] It's in this book because it's hard.
[00:32:13] As simple as that sounds, build a plan and have a whole bunch of options available to you when your plan doesn't work.
[00:32:18] That's written down in the Marine Corps tactics manual, specifically because they know how hard this is, especially in combat.
[00:32:30] Back to the book.
[00:32:31] The value of branches and sequels is that they prepare us for several different actions.
[00:32:36] We should keep the number of branches and sequels to a relative few.
[00:32:40] And and late for nights talked about them that in the dark out of me leadership where people go, okay, you want to see branch plans.
[00:32:46] I got some branch plans and they create 50 of them.
[00:32:49] You need three.
[00:32:50] Yeah.
[00:32:50] You need two.
[00:32:51] You need four.
[00:32:52] You don't need 50.
[00:32:54] Back to the book.
[00:32:55] We should not try to develop so many branches and sequels that we cannot adequately train, plan, train, or prepare for them for any of them.
[00:33:01] And what I found even on top of that is when you have multiple branches.
[00:33:06] And you rehearse them all. No one knows what's actually happening.
[00:33:10] You know, if you rehearse your primary, this is what you should do.
[00:33:14] You should rehearse your primary one.
[00:33:16] Like 10 times your secondary one three times and your tertiary one once as a walk through.
[00:33:23] Yeah.
[00:33:24] And you should do them in reverse or order or at least maybe not reverse order.
[00:33:28] But you practice your primary one five times three times on your secondary one time on your tertiary five more times on your primary.
[00:33:35] That's where you want them to the guys to come out the gate on otherwise.
[00:33:40] You're going to get half the guys do it one and half the guys doing something else.
[00:33:45] It's a nightmare.
[00:33:47] Back to the book.
[00:33:48] The skillful well thought out use of branches and sequels becomes an important means of anticipating future courses of action.
[00:33:56] This anticipation helps accelerate the decision cycle and therefore increase the tempo.
[00:34:02] This idea of anticipation.
[00:34:06] I mean, what you're saying is that I know what the enemy is going to do.
[00:34:11] And when you're doing GJ2 and you're good at GJ2, I used to describe GJ2 and I used to say,
[00:34:15] When you're good at GJ2, you can see the future.
[00:34:19] Like if I roll with you Dave, because I've been training for a long time, there's a 90% chance that I know what you're about to do.
[00:34:28] Like when you were going up against a top gun student that had just showed up, there's a night well, do you tell me?
[00:34:35] No, there's like a 90% chance that this guy is going to do.
[00:34:38] When I do this, he's going to do that.
[00:34:40] So this idea that you begin to be able to predict what the future holds is.
[00:34:48] Think about it.
[00:34:49] Think about that's what happens in GJ2.
[00:34:51] That's what happens in GJ2.
[00:34:52] That's what makes you get beaten GJ2 is that person you're going against knows what you're going to do.
[00:34:57] And it's waiting there for you to do it and submit you.
[00:35:00] That's what happens with tactics.
[00:35:02] If you can anticipate what the enemy is going to do, you can be waiting for them.
[00:35:06] And we used to set operations up like that.
[00:35:08] Hey, when we set the breach here, that's going to drive people in this direction, out of the building,
[00:35:13] if they try to escape, they're going to go off this back door, this back window,
[00:35:16] boom, we'll be waiting right there for them or whatever.
[00:35:18] Like that's how we do it.
[00:35:21] So this idea of anticipation, man, if you can, if you can dedicate a little bit of energy to the future,
[00:35:26] you can dedicate a little bit of time to think about what your competitor, what the enemy is going to do.
[00:35:33] You're going to set yourself up for a, what's the video game term echo Charles for like a total of, is it total victory?
[00:35:42] Flallus victory.
[00:35:43] Flallus victory.
[00:35:44] I knew there was a better term.
[00:35:45] Thank you.
[00:35:46] Well, go back from Hawaii to give us this information.
[00:35:49] I never would have known that answer.
[00:35:51] Yes.
[00:35:52] Well done.
[00:35:54] Flexible plans avoid unnecessary detail.
[00:35:58] That not only consumes time in their development, but has a tendency to restrict subordinates latitude.
[00:36:04] How often do we see the, the, the leader that thinks that the more detail they put into a plan,
[00:36:11] the better off they're going to be and the better people are going to understand it all the time.
[00:36:16] That comment about your subordinates latitude.
[00:36:19] The goal should actually be is to tell them what to do the least amount of time and give them the most latitude possible.
[00:36:26] That should be your goal to let them figure out what it is you're going to do.
[00:36:30] That comment that latitude comment is something that's so critical for leaders.
[00:36:35] Give your, your folks latitude to do that.
[00:36:37] I like the way they just called unnecessary detail.
[00:36:39] And this is one of those things where in the military,
[00:36:42] the American attitude of life is if a little is good, then more is better, and if more is better, then just max it out to the end degree.
[00:36:53] And I saw that over and over again, and we've wrote about our next dream ownership planning.
[00:36:58] It's like,
[00:36:59] life and Seth were so used to these 200 power points slide briefs. And I was telling them, look, we're not doing that. Put a map up on the wall, talk to guys.
[00:37:11] Life and Seth were actually scared for their careers.
[00:37:15] When the commanding officer was coming up to to sitting on their briefs,
[00:37:20] they were worried about what was going to happen to their careers because they wanted to build 200 power points slides.
[00:37:28] It slides for a brief on a reconnaissance in the woods.
[00:37:32] That's what they wanted to do.
[00:37:34] So what they realized is that all that detail, all that use, they've been driven, they thought, you know, at somewhere along the line in the, in the, in the seal community, someone said, oh, well, you put some good detail in there, put more.
[00:37:49] And then a year later someone also say and put more, and then a year later someone's put more.
[00:37:54] And that's how you end up with 200 slides that no one understands.
[00:37:59] Totally ridiculous.
[00:38:01] Back to the book.
[00:38:03] Instead, flexible plans lay out what needs to be accomplished, but leave the manner of accomplishment to subordinates, which is what you just said.
[00:38:11] This allows subordinates the flexibility to deal with a broader range of circumstances.
[00:38:17] Flexible plans are plans that can be easily changed.
[00:38:22] Plans that require coordination are said to be coupled.
[00:38:25] If all parts of a plan are too tightly coupled, the plan is harder to change because changing anyone part of the plan means changing all the other parts.
[00:38:34] Instead, we should try and develop modular loosely connected plans.
[00:38:40] Then if we change or modify any one part of the plan, it does not directly affect all the other parts.
[00:38:45] This is why I talked about a little bit on one of our earlier podcasts from this book is.
[00:38:50] I would try and keep my unit integrity, my fire team integrity together as much as I could.
[00:38:56] So that way, if something changed, it was really easy to say, okay, fire teams two and three you're doing this now.
[00:39:02] And not putting little special teams together for every people like to put together little special teams for everything.
[00:39:08] No, use the team, use the team that's used to working with each other.
[00:39:14] Finally, flexible plans should be simple plans.
[00:39:19] Simple plans are easier to adapt to the rapidly changing complex and fluid situations that we experience in combat.
[00:39:26] Man, the idea that keeping the idea of keeping your plan simple.
[00:39:36] You know, when I would be going through training, when I would be getting judged by the training cadre, that was such a big advantage for me.
[00:39:45] There's to be like, oh, yeah, this is what we're going to do. Guys, we're going to get online here. We're going to move through the target.
[00:39:49] We're going to stay in fire team integrity once one on the other side of the target will call see.
[00:39:53] It was like these basic plans that it didn't matter what we encountered on the target every it was it was almost like I was cheating.
[00:40:00] It was almost like I was cheating.
[00:40:02] And you know what, what you know what they do, they lure you in to coming up with a complex plan.
[00:40:07] They go, hey, Jocca, we're going to give you guys all day today to plan this.
[00:40:13] And they think they're doing your favor and they're thinking that that when you come up with a more complex plan that it's going to be better, they actually think that.
[00:40:21] And I said, okay, cool. I'm still going to plan it in 13 minutes.
[00:40:26] And once we get the plan done, you know, okay, well, we'll add some detail to it.
[00:40:31] But the essential plan, 13 minutes, nine minutes. Let me look at the target for nine minutes.
[00:40:37] And I'm going to tell you exactly how this thing is going to go down.
[00:40:40] And the simplicity that you keep such a huge advantage over it's cheating. It's almost cheating.
[00:40:46] It is. We talked about this in business all the time. This idea of of simple one of the laws that we talk about it.
[00:40:52] And I'll ask the question that I'll have key leaders that bring us in and we'll roll with them and I'll say simply.
[00:40:57] Hey, why is it important for the plan to be simple enough that everybody on your team, especially at the lowest level of your team understands it.
[00:41:04] And they won't really know the answer and they'll think, well, it helps.
[00:41:09] And if you don't want everybody to understand that plan at the lowest level, is it, those are people going to be out there doing the rule work.
[00:41:14] They're the ones that are actually doing the work, not you as the key leader, not, and if they don't understand what to do, the simple thing is they won't know what to do.
[00:41:23] And you'll be stuck solving all the problems all day. And that's what we see these leaders.
[00:41:26] I'm constantly answering questions from all my people. It's like, because they don't understand what to do.
[00:41:30] And they're at the point of friction. And if your plan was actually less complex, it would help them more.
[00:41:36] And they think, no, I need to give them more details more information. That's actually not what they need.
[00:41:40] They need to just understand what you're trying to get accomplished and let them do the work.
[00:41:44] It can be counter-intuitive. It can be counter-intuitive because someone will see their subordinates go out to do something and they miss the mark.
[00:41:52] And so what they do is they try and drive more detail. They don't look.
[00:41:55] There's obviously a dichotomy. There's an encounter to where you're not giving them enough information.
[00:41:59] They don't understand what's going on. They don't understand what the objective is.
[00:42:03] That can happen. It usually happens the other way though. Totally.
[00:42:08] Next section in this book is called decentralization.
[00:42:13] Another excellent way to improve adaptability is to decentralize decision making authority as much as each situation allows.
[00:42:21] This means that commanders on the scene and closest to the events have the latitude to deal with the situation as required on their own authority.
[00:42:30] But always in accordance with the higher commanders intent.
[00:42:35] This decentralization speeds up reaction time.
[00:42:38] We don't have to wait for information to flow up to a higher command in order to flow back down.
[00:42:42] It increases responsiveness of the organization which in turn increases adaptability.
[00:42:48] Decentralizing control through the use of mission orders is one of the tools we use to maximize our ability to adapt.
[00:42:58] And this is the fourth law of combat decentralized command.
[00:43:03] Confidence in the abilities of subordinates plays an important part in decentralization leaders who have confidence in the capabilities of their subordinates will feel more comfortable in granting them greater latitude in accomplishing tasks.
[00:43:18] So that's what you have to do. You have to build up that confidence in your subordinates.
[00:43:24] And once you have confidence in your subordinates you can let them run. You can get out of their way actually.
[00:43:30] And for them to be confident in themselves as well that they can actually actually do that understanding the big intent and that they can do that themselves.
[00:43:37] This book is making this manual is making the connection between the need to be creative and the need to let your people be creative.
[00:43:46] And centralization and giving them too much detail to actually stifles a thing you need from them the most which is creativity and latitude when they're at the point of friction, which you can't be as leader all the time with them.
[00:43:56] They're going to be there on their own more often than not.
[00:43:58] And you actually have to cultivate that well in advance or they are going to freeze and they're going to they can have too much friction. They won't know what to do and it matters the most.
[00:44:05] And you won't be able to help them. I'm sure you saw that all the time as a mission lead at top gone. I'd have six different elements dealing with six different problems.
[00:44:13] And I couldn't be usually not at any of them. Maybe I could be with one if I was happy to be at the right place in the right time in my airplane.
[00:44:20] But if something happened critical 6070 miles away, I can't influence that. I can't help them with that.
[00:44:26] This idea of creativity. That's the confidence that you're talking about in them being able to solve their own problems and when you see it.
[00:44:33] As a leader, that's what led you step back. It's awesome to watch when leaders figure that out. Oh, you just you train them and just let them do their job and it worked out how that make you feel.
[00:44:42] Awesome.
[00:44:43] Some pragmatic kind of tactical level talk here.
[00:44:48] If you have your subordinates and they don't accomplish the mission the way they should or they make some bad decisions and your instinct is okay. What I need to do is give them more detailed commands.
[00:45:01] Well, that's not the right answer. So what is the right answer? The right answer is what you want to do is you need to make sure that they understand what your command is intent was.
[00:45:09] You need to make sure that you've given them the training so that they learn to recognize patterns. You need to make sure you go give them the training so that they learn that part of creativity.
[00:45:22] You need to make sure that they understand that what you want them to do out on the battlefield is to actually lead.
[00:45:28] Because a lot of times people don't understand that.
[00:45:31] What they think they should do is wait for you to tell them what to do. That's the breakdown. So the it's one of those moments where you need to look when your team doesn't do what you want them to do and your instinct is I need to tell them what to do more.
[00:45:46] That's the wrong instinct.
[00:45:48] What you need to do it's not that you need to just let them do whatever they want because they've already proved they just prove that they don't know how to do that.
[00:45:54] But what you need to do now is you need to train them to think you need to train them to be creative. You need to train them to follow up their immediate action drills and their standard operating procedures with an actual assessment of what is really happening and make some decisions based on what they've been trained to do, what the commanders intent is, what the survivability of the mission is like all those things they have to learn to think.
[00:46:18] I got to see this over and over again in my leadership laboratory running the West Coast seal training. I got to see it over and over again. You could see someone in their first block of training in unit level training their first block of training you would see a young seal leader who would completely lock up mental lock up when things started going sideways and believe me they would go sideways mental lock up.
[00:46:42] You fast forward I'd go out to the next block of training all of a sudden you'd see oh a little spark a little something a little maybe a little decision a hesitant decision but a decision you go out to the last block of training something something it hasn't even gone wrong yet it is beginning to go wrong and they go hey.
[00:46:58] We do solve that building right now and you go okay this person's got it so you can absolutely get better at this but the way you do it is not by providing more direction it's actually by providing the proper training because it's not nothing
[00:47:12] that's what I want to point out what I want to make is it's not when I say hey if your team isn't doing what you want to do give them less direction that's not the answer it. The answer is give them less direction and give them the training given the mindset given the authority given the repetitions given the pattern recognition given the standard operating procedure and the immediate action drill and I've talked about this before part of the immediate action drill that you need to have is what you're going to do when you don't know what's going on
[00:47:41] because there's a process that you can follow when you don't know what is happening what you need to do if I start getting shot at and I don't know what's happening okay what am I going to do and I'm going to start and I got reload another magazine and shoot it no I'm absolutely not going to do that.
[00:47:56] I'm going to take a step back I'm going to get off the firing line I'm going to high port my weapon I'm going to look to my left I'm going to look to my right I'm going to assess where my guys are make sure I know that then I'm going to start assessing where the enemy is once I've done that guess what I'm going to do I'm going to make the little littleist move that I can possibly make that's going to move me in the direction that I suspect is the right way to go.
[00:48:17] So I'm going to make one small movement that I think is right I'm not going to commit to it 100% but I'm going to make one small movement once we made that one small movement and it's proves that maybe I'm I was right in my suspicion cool now I'll make a bolder movement will continue in that direction.
[00:48:33] But you can do that you can develop a standard operating procedure an immediate action drill of what to do when you don't know what to do.
[00:48:47] And you did your immediate action drill which was turn towards them. Then what's your next what's the next steps that you take so you don't know what's happening you do your immediate action drill so you had to have some kind of thing that you did I mean you already said it earlier you started looking around figuring out what you're going to do next.
[00:49:07] Funny because as you as you were going what you just described I was thinking about top gun I started thinking about you did so I was thinking about our time and remedy I was thinking about business all that that thing you just described that template fits in all those different places at the same time and it's it's really how I was describing that that immediate action.
[00:49:23] of the time like you just describe learning. You did that too and like kind of understanding the way before you get templates like didn't you, postin get foi no way the unfamiliar said that that the way you
[00:49:24] drop. And you can dograss where stuff is playing. Like you, you know you've found some Frozen C shape that you're going to be lost.
[00:49:42] immediately put that person in a position where he's uncomfortable.
[00:49:45] Not so much that he can make a mistake that's going to be catastrophic for the squadron.
[00:49:49] I wouldn't put him in a situation that is so far out of his comfort zone that he can make a decision
[00:49:53] that will hurt the team so bad that it's not recoverable.
[00:49:56] But you described it, people can learn and have to learn how to be creative.
[00:50:00] And the really short answer is, what do I do once I get past that initial move is?
[00:50:04] I think that's creative.
[00:50:06] I look out and think, what do I need to do?
[00:50:08] I take all those different pieces together, the more experience I am, the easier it is.
[00:50:11] And I figure, okay, I need to stop this.
[00:50:13] This has been a good intermediate answer, but it's not the right answer.
[00:50:17] And now I need to move in this other direction.
[00:50:18] Or pull in some other resource, tell another airplane was going on.
[00:50:22] Call a ground, whatever that answer is, the answer is different every single time.
[00:50:26] The answer is actually think, and you talked about situation on Warnus 2.
[00:50:30] The more you know what's going on around you, the easier the answer is.
[00:50:32] And the only way to get situation on Warnus is to put yourself in those situations over and over and over again.
[00:50:37] So you can anticipate what you need to do.
[00:50:39] The idea for me is, and for you, it's what you just described as well.
[00:50:44] Well, and I think you just described as, is you're going to immediately back into the
[00:50:48] Udolub to orient yourself to what's going on, decide what you're going to do next and act.
[00:50:52] But that orient piece that you're, once you've made your initial immediate action drill,
[00:50:57] okay, cool, you're immediate, that's act, right?
[00:51:00] You just did an act.
[00:51:01] And now what are you going to do?
[00:51:02] You're going to orient yourself to where you are now, which is going to look around.
[00:51:07] For me, taking a step back, going to high port and looking around, if I could get a
[00:51:13] young leader to do that, if I could get a young leader to do that, it was like I took them
[00:51:20] from having a garbage can over their head to standing on a mountaintop with thermal vision.
[00:51:32] That's what it seemed like.
[00:51:34] Because when you are wrapped up in that situation, you cannot see anything.
[00:51:41] You might as well have a garbage can over your head.
[00:51:46] If the minute you take a step back, you can see everything.
[00:51:51] So once I could get someone to, to make that little transition and sometimes it was pretty
[00:51:55] easy, sometimes it was pretty hard.
[00:51:57] You know, we, many times, gave the young leaders, you know, a stick guns that didn't
[00:52:03] shoot.
[00:52:04] Go, man, I'm telling you, you cannot be shooting this thing.
[00:52:07] What you need to do is be looking around.
[00:52:08] But once you make that trip, that's like the, so for me, the immediate action drill for
[00:52:13] the immediate action drill for I don't know what's happening is step back, turn my head,
[00:52:18] physically look around and assess what's happening and then make the, the smallest move,
[00:52:23] I can possibly make towards the direction I suspect is correct.
[00:52:28] The beauty of what you just said is the immediate action and the airplane that I described
[00:52:31] earlier, that lift that run and pull, that's what allows you to stick, to take a step
[00:52:37] back and think because that maneuver, that movement requires no brain power.
[00:52:42] You just turn your airplane and pull back in the stick.
[00:52:44] It's like the first thing you ever learned to do and that's what allows you to look around
[00:52:48] and see what's happening.
[00:52:49] We would do these training missions and we would record everything.
[00:52:53] Cameras over your shoulder cameras in the front of the plane, the crams are everywhere.
[00:52:55] And the radar screen is on the right side of almost every jet I flew it's over on the
[00:52:58] right side.
[00:52:59] You would see guys heads to the point that there are no just almost on the screen and they
[00:53:04] were staring at the one thing that thought was the most important thing and literally
[00:53:08] not looking or, so it's no different than being on the line.
[00:53:12] It's target fixation.
[00:53:13] It's target fixation.
[00:53:14] It's looking down the side of your weapon and if you took, just take, take a step back
[00:53:22] and airplane so you could just lift your head, just lift your head up and look around.
[00:53:25] What would you, so it's that what you would tell the young pilots.
[00:53:28] Literally those words.
[00:53:29] Yeah, I'd say, do you see your head in the reflection, do you see your helmet?
[00:53:32] Where is it?
[00:53:33] Because it's literally touching the radar and all the pilots that you're listening to are
[00:53:36] not laughing because they know what that looks like where your nose is on the screen
[00:53:39] because you're staring at it and you don't see anything else that's going on.
[00:53:42] That immediate action drill is a move that requires no real brain.
[00:53:46] It doesn't require you to do anything other than the maneuver and during that time is
[00:53:50] when you take a step back, you look around the big picture and then you make a decision.
[00:53:54] I mean, this is what I actually wrote on Seth Stone's Humvee window in front of his
[00:54:00] face.
[00:54:01] Yeah, with grease pencil.
[00:54:02] I wrote a step number one.
[00:54:04] I said, listen man, that's what you're going to do.
[00:54:06] Step number one, relax.
[00:54:08] Step number two, look around.
[00:54:11] Step number three, make a call.
[00:54:14] As soon as he, the next run, he'd follow those instructions and that's exact and it was like
[00:54:20] a total game changer for, for, oh.
[00:54:23] Instead of just staring at like the targets that just popped up down range or the where your
[00:54:28] guys rounds were impacting like, no, just take us, just relax, look around and make
[00:54:35] a call.
[00:54:36] So when you had a really good pilot with their head just be constantly just all looking
[00:54:41] all around.
[00:54:42] Full of time.
[00:54:43] Yeah, all the time.
[00:54:44] They never stop moving.
[00:54:45] They never stop looking around and they talk very little.
[00:54:48] They don't say very much.
[00:54:50] They're just, and, and at some interval, they make one call.
[00:54:55] Sweet one, two, full north.
[00:54:57] And all of a sudden there's a whole formation which, and because they would see whatever's
[00:55:00] happening and he can make these massive amount of influences into what's going on in fight
[00:55:05] by talking less than everybody else because he's spending 90% of the time just watching
[00:55:09] and go, there's some friction creating over here.
[00:55:11] Nobody's responding to it.
[00:55:12] I'm going to get my guy sitting over the way.
[00:55:14] He's just attached sitting up at altitude mentally and going, okay, we're going to take
[00:55:20] us that back and, oh, this is what we're going to do now.
[00:55:24] And that's why as a mission commander, we talk about, you know, dog fighting against another
[00:55:28] aircraft and how fun that is and how much you, it's the last thing I really wanted to be
[00:55:34] doing as a leader.
[00:55:36] That's no different than being in hand-to-hand combat when you're trying to lead your
[00:55:38] battalion.
[00:55:39] It seems like a lot of fun and don't get me wrong.
[00:55:42] If the opportunity, if you had to do it, you do it.
[00:55:44] That's required, of course, you do that.
[00:55:46] But really, the best leaders in an airplane were the ones that shot the least, said the
[00:55:51] least, saw the most and made the right calls and right influence because they were detached
[00:55:54] the whole time.
[00:55:55] And this is completely reinforced by the fact that the American fighters in Korea, one
[00:56:03] of the biggest assets that they had was they had the clear cock.
[00:56:07] That's exactly right.
[00:56:08] Yep.
[00:56:09] Like that made, you know, you think, oh, I'm sure that makes it deal.
[00:56:12] No, you don't get what big deal that makes.
[00:56:14] They all had perfect vision and they could see more than they had me could see.
[00:56:18] That was the difference maker.
[00:56:19] It certainly wasn't how good the machine was.
[00:56:21] We've talked about this a bunch of times.
[00:56:23] The machine wasn't that good at all.
[00:56:24] But the big advantage of it is they could see more.
[00:56:27] Literally see more.
[00:56:28] You could see things sooner, see things better, see things more clearly and make decisions
[00:56:30] based on that and how much of a advantage that was.
[00:56:33] When you said perfect vision or you talked about the actual 2020 vision of the pilots.
[00:56:37] If you talked to those guys back in the world where we were too in Korea, they were guys
[00:56:39] fully like the guys with the most kills, they had like 2010.
[00:56:42] Yeah.
[00:56:43] One of the things they all had was they had incredible eyesight.
[00:56:46] Yeah.
[00:56:46] Literally vision.
[00:56:47] Yeah.
[00:56:48] Yeah.
[00:56:49] Yeah.
[00:56:50] Yeah.
[00:56:51] That's right.
[00:56:52] Because I in Yagres book Yagres, he talks about how he could see before anyone else could
[00:56:54] see he go, oh, we got bogies of whatever three o'clock and it would be the game change.
[00:56:58] Absolutely.
[00:56:59] Because now you're making maneuvers.
[00:57:00] My oldest daughter has 25 vision.
[00:57:07] And like when she goes to get her eyesight checked, they bring other people into the room.
[00:57:10] They're like, watch this.
[00:57:12] It's awesome.
[00:57:13] Yeah.
[00:57:14] But I don't know.
[00:57:15] I don't think the generations of fighter, but well, it doesn't really matter that much anymore.
[00:57:18] Right?
[00:57:19] Because you got radar.
[00:57:20] It doesn't.
[00:57:21] That attribute doesn't matter as much.
[00:57:23] The visual acuity doesn't matter as much.
[00:57:26] But the principle is exactly the same.
[00:57:27] It's just what do you.
[00:57:29] What do you see?
[00:57:30] And you don't see when you're staring at one thing.
[00:57:32] You don't see anything else.
[00:57:33] Yeah.
[00:57:34] You know what you see when you're staring out your A cog.
[00:57:36] Right?
[00:57:37] You see nothing.
[00:57:38] That's right.
[00:57:39] You think you see something.
[00:57:40] Absolutely nothing and from a leadership perspective, you're making some big mistakes.
[00:57:45] Back to the book.
[00:57:46] It fosters a climate where senior leaders know that their intent will be carried out.
[00:57:50] This is particularly true for first Italian seventh marine during Operation Desert Storm
[00:57:54] as a baton began breaching operations for the advance of the first marine division across
[00:57:59] the tooth.
[00:58:00] The first who I rackied mine belts, Marines were suddenly overwhelmed with hundreds
[00:58:04] upon hundreds of Iraqis supporting white flags.
[00:58:10] Who were trying to surrender?
[00:58:12] The number was so great that it threatened to stop them marine advance.
[00:58:15] However, the Italian commander immediately recognized the situation.
[00:58:18] Judges that the Iraqis were harmless and instructed the Italian not to stop to accept
[00:58:22] their surrender.
[00:58:24] It was precisely the type of local situation that the division commander wanted his commanders
[00:58:29] to recognize and use their own initiative to correct.
[00:58:33] Here the commanding officer who is closest to the situation and who understood the division
[00:58:37] commander's intent, not to lose the momentum of the advance adapted to the situation.
[00:58:42] This adaptation resulted in the rapid breach of Iraqi defenses.
[00:58:46] I hope that they rewrite this book soon.
[00:58:49] That's a cool example, but the examples that they're going to get from Iraq and Afghanistan
[00:58:53] are going to be really awesome too.
[00:58:56] Conclusion.
[00:58:57] Successful warfare is filled with examples of leaders adapting to changing situations.
[00:59:04] You must start to learn how to adapt now during our training.
[00:59:10] Leaders should value and encourage innovative thinking.
[00:59:14] Moreover, they should expect creative thinking from their subordinates because it creates
[00:59:21] new opportunities.
[00:59:24] For adaptation to be effective, commanders must readily exploit the opportunities uncovered
[00:59:29] by subordinates.
[00:59:31] Leaders cannot remain tied to plans that blind them to fleeting opportunities.
[00:59:38] Commanders cannot remain tied to plans that blind them to fleeting opportunities.
[00:59:44] While making the best possible preparations, they must welcome and take advantage of
[00:59:50] unforeseen opportunities.
[00:59:53] Training.
[00:59:54] Now during our training.
[00:59:55] This was at the last master, I had a revelation because there's a story that you talk about
[01:00:04] when you experienced a female, a belligerent female, Iraqi.
[01:00:10] And basically, what would you say she was doing to you physically moving on you in a non-leaf
[01:00:20] way, but in a way that was disruptive to what you were trying to do?
[01:00:26] Absolutely.
[01:00:27] You're in a building, you're doing a clearance.
[01:00:30] This was really early in your deployment to a Romadi.
[01:00:32] It's my first mission.
[01:00:33] First mission.
[01:00:34] Go ahead and tell us what happened.
[01:00:35] As all my first mission, the mission was we were going to clear out an apartment complex
[01:00:40] and a main house.
[01:00:41] It was probably six or seven rooms.
[01:00:42] We didn't just start to hear you ask anything.
[01:00:44] To me, got it.
[01:00:46] Yeah, good times.
[01:00:47] So we cleared out this room, it cleared out all the rooms in the building and we essentially
[01:00:51] accomplished our primary objective, which is clear everybody out, separated the men and the women
[01:00:55] to figure out if we could find the guy we're looking for.
[01:00:58] And they asked me to just go sit in the main courtyard of the main front of this building
[01:01:03] and just secure the door.
[01:01:05] Are you with an army company or an army platoon?
[01:01:08] National Guard platoon.
[01:01:09] National Guard platoon.
[01:01:10] Yes, before that, Guard unit.
[01:01:11] So they're just to set this up a little bit.
[01:01:13] So they're the assault force.
[01:01:15] They're taking out a building.
[01:01:16] And they got good deal day to go, come in with them and run air, support if needed with
[01:01:22] your ankle.
[01:01:23] That's right.
[01:01:24] First mission I went on these guys have been there almost a year.
[01:01:26] I went with them to support with air.
[01:01:28] Turns out when we got inside this building, there were more rooms and they thought, so
[01:01:30] I had to do some room clearances.
[01:01:32] So I wasn't expecting it.
[01:01:33] We did it.
[01:01:34] It was fine.
[01:01:35] Then I finished that up and I'm just sitting in the front open area of this building.
[01:01:39] Thinking, everybody is accounted for.
[01:01:41] Everybody secure down the stairs, probably 20 feet in front of me.
[01:01:44] And old Iraqi woman, she's probably in her 70s, maybe older.
[01:01:46] She's less than five feet tall.
[01:01:48] She's a tiny little thing.
[01:01:49] And she is screaming, pointing her finger, yelling me.
[01:01:52] And I'm alone in this room because we think this room is secure.
[01:01:55] It's close to the outside so I can talk to air.
[01:01:57] And she starts coming out me and she's pointing her finger, screaming me in Arabic.
[01:02:01] And she's not with her hands, but her body, she's so aggressive.
[01:02:05] And she's I'm backing up.
[01:02:07] She's moving me backwards.
[01:02:08] And I literally don't know what to do.
[01:02:10] So I just start backing up, up against the wall.
[01:02:13] And then how did it conclude?
[01:02:14] It concluded she got to about, I don't know, maybe six or seven feet for me.
[01:02:18] And over my right shoulder was the entrance to the outside and the platoon commander in
[01:02:22] charge of this whole thing, walked in.
[01:02:24] He either heard it or was just coming back into sea was going on and he heard it and he came in.
[01:02:30] And he literally just raises weapons, screamed her to stop and disrupted the situation.
[01:02:34] He was pretty aggressive and got her to stop.
[01:02:36] And she stopped.
[01:02:37] That was it.
[01:02:38] I was literally doing nothing.
[01:02:39] And I was, when you talk about, you described this really this,
[01:02:43] my little mental repertoire of all the things I had all the resources available to me.
[01:02:46] I was out of ideas.
[01:02:47] I didn't know what to do.
[01:02:48] Yeah.
[01:02:48] No weapon.
[01:02:49] I did not know what to do.
[01:02:50] So guess what?
[01:02:51] I didn't do anything.
[01:02:52] Yeah.
[01:02:53] So just again, because this might seem real obvious, when you've got a civilian woman coming
[01:02:59] at you, you can't, you're not going to shoot her.
[01:03:01] You don't want to hit her.
[01:03:03] Like she's 70 years old.
[01:03:04] And so what are you going to do?
[01:03:06] How are you going to handle the situation?
[01:03:07] It's a situation you'd never been in.
[01:03:08] So the connection that I made at the last monster, because I was listening to you tell that story.
[01:03:13] And what?
[01:03:13] And I tell a story about what I would set run training.
[01:03:17] We hired middle-aged Arabic women to come and be role players and yell at people and be abrasive
[01:03:25] and be aggressive.
[01:03:27] And so why did I do that?
[01:03:29] Because I wanted the guys to be ready, because I knew that that's what's going to happen
[01:03:31] overseas.
[01:03:32] And so it's one of those things.
[01:03:34] And if you've never seen it before, get don't know what to do.
[01:03:39] Or you may not know.
[01:03:40] You may not know what to do.
[01:03:41] Whereas all you need to see is a one-time one-time.
[01:03:44] Like I guarantee you never, I mean you never had that problem again.
[01:03:46] You'd realize, oh, this will make her respond.
[01:03:49] And the solution wasn't that hard.
[01:03:50] But what you described, I immediately went through my head.
[01:03:53] Am I going to shoot her?
[01:03:54] No.
[01:03:55] Am I going to hit her?
[01:03:56] No.
[01:03:57] I went through those two potential answers in about a half a second.
[01:04:00] Answer was no to both.
[01:04:01] There was no third step in my mind.
[01:04:03] I did not know what else to do.
[01:04:04] It literally could have been something.
[01:04:05] If I knew the right word, put my hand up.
[01:04:07] And took a step towards her, she would have stopped.
[01:04:09] But I didn't know what to do, so I didn't do anything.
[01:04:13] So that is why the training that you run as a leader, you got to think about these little
[01:04:18] things.
[01:04:19] And you might not.
[01:04:20] There's plenty of people prior to us deploying to Iraq in 2003.
[01:04:25] There's plenty of trainers that would have said, oh, you guys will know what to do.
[01:04:28] No, actually they may think they know what to do.
[01:04:32] And they might think the wrong thing as well.
[01:04:35] The wrong thing could be, oh, if you, because you can hear people say this.
[01:04:39] Hey, if they're closing with you, that's a threat you can engage.
[01:04:42] It's like no, that's actually completely wrong.
[01:04:45] It's actually completely wrong.
[01:04:46] You need to think about what's going on.
[01:04:48] So the training that you do and putting people into situations that they don't expect.
[01:04:55] And I mean, here's the deal, man.
[01:04:57] When was the last time you were on the ground clearing buildings as a rifleman?
[01:05:05] Never.
[01:05:06] I did a, I've been an urban training at the base of school in 1994 for three days.
[01:05:12] So now this is nine years later, or eight years later, 12 years later.
[01:05:16] Oh, no, 12 years later.
[01:05:18] Yeah.
[01:05:19] 12 years later, and you're clearing rooms like TJ Hooker on my first mission.
[01:05:22] Yeah.
[01:05:23] Clear rooms.
[01:05:24] Yeah.
[01:05:25] And that's what we got a train for.
[01:05:29] Yeah.
[01:05:30] So you got to do that in the business world, too.
[01:05:31] You got to look and say, what can you, and here's the point that I wanted to make is,
[01:05:36] you might not know the train somebody for in this specific case, an Arabic woman that's
[01:05:42] going to come out to you.
[01:05:43] I knew that that's what we're going to deal with, especially once I came back from from
[01:05:47] Ramadi and Baghdad.
[01:05:48] Like I knew that that's what guys are going to be dealing with.
[01:05:51] But what situations can you put them in that just make them think?
[01:05:55] Just make them think.
[01:05:56] Just make them think.
[01:05:57] That's what you want to do.
[01:05:58] The truth is, what I didn't need was training to deal with Iraqi civilians coming
[01:06:02] out.
[01:06:03] I needed what I needed to do was recognize that the chaotic environments that I'd been
[01:06:08] in the past, the lessons applied there, too.
[01:06:10] I needed to spend time thinking about what was this different environment going to look
[01:06:14] like and what did I already knew and understood could I leverage?
[01:06:17] And that's what I failed to do.
[01:06:19] Had I seen Middle-Age Arabic women in training or not, that's not what I look back and
[01:06:25] say, that's what I regret for me was not recognizing.
[01:06:28] I'm going to be out of my comfort zone very early on.
[01:06:31] I've been out of my comfort zone before, I have to remember what that feels like and
[01:06:34] apply those same lessons and I could handle that situation a million different ways.
[01:06:39] Not because I hadn't seen the exact same thing before, but because I didn't think about
[01:06:42] what it's going to feel like to be out of my comfort zone because to be quite honest with
[01:06:46] you, Joko.
[01:06:47] It'd been a while since I was out of my comfort zone in an airplane and I got pretty
[01:06:50] complacent with it and I didn't think about what that was going to be like the very
[01:06:54] next time I was turning a rifle clearance.
[01:06:57] I just didn't think about it.
[01:06:58] And thank God it worked out on that first mission because I cared that with me the
[01:07:02] rest of the deployment because it believed me.
[01:07:04] I was in a lot more uncomfortable situations for the next seven months, but I never found
[01:07:08] myself without understanding what to do moving forward ever because of that experience.
[01:07:13] I looked out on that one, but like you said, it applies everywhere.
[01:07:18] That lesson fits everywhere in my life.
[01:07:19] In anybody's life.
[01:07:20] Yeah.
[01:07:21] All right, next chapter, next chapter is called cooperating.
[01:07:32] Again, it's important to note that what we are saying is that the United States Marine
[01:07:37] Corps, one of if not the finest whole fighting force that has ever been on the planet,
[01:07:46] has an entire chapter about tactics.
[01:07:49] And their book about tactics, there is an entire chapter that's called cooperating.
[01:07:55] And this is, you know, I talk about cooperating all the time.
[01:08:02] That is one of my laws of combat.
[01:08:04] I don't call it cooperating.
[01:08:06] I call it cover move.
[01:08:08] But that's what it is.
[01:08:09] We are going to work together.
[01:08:10] That's what cover move is.
[01:08:11] We are working together.
[01:08:14] So the importance of working together, the Marine Corps identifies it.
[01:08:18] They call it something different.
[01:08:19] But here we go.
[01:08:20] Here's a quote, you leave command.
[01:08:24] Is coordinated action toward a common goal.
[01:08:26] It is cooperation.
[01:08:27] It is working together by all commanders toward the accomplishment of a common mission, which
[01:08:33] is imperative for complete and final success.
[01:08:37] Commanders must develop their staffs and subordinates that desire to cooperate.
[01:08:42] Not only among themselves, but with other elements of the command.
[01:08:46] And that's almost an exact quote from when we talk about cover move.
[01:08:49] It's not just amongst your own team, but it's with every team that you're working with.
[01:08:52] That you need to support or be supported by in order to accomplish your mission.
[01:08:58] And that's from tactical principles, an unavvy manual.
[01:09:04] The other quote, gear is the first element of command and control is people.
[01:09:10] People who gather information, make decisions, take action, communicate and cooperate with
[01:09:15] one another in the accomplishment of a common goal.
[01:09:19] And that's from another Marine Corps pub called command and control.
[01:09:23] And there's people that talk about command or control and we're going to get into it just
[01:09:28] so everyone knows it's okay.
[01:09:30] You don't need to jump through the air waves and come at us because I get that there's
[01:09:37] command or control.
[01:09:38] There's command and control.
[01:09:39] People talk about it.
[01:09:40] So cover move, talking about cooperation.
[01:09:44] Something that we do, everything that we have to do in tactics, gaining advantage and above
[01:09:48] all achieving a decisive result needs a team effort.
[01:09:55] And this is why when I wrote down the laws of combat for the first time, cover move is
[01:10:00] first because if you don't have a team, if you don't have cooperation, nothing else
[01:10:04] doesn't matter.
[01:10:05] Doesn't matter if you have a simple plan, doesn't matter if you prioritize an execute,
[01:10:08] doesn't matter if you have decentralized command.
[01:10:10] If you don't have a teamwork or can together, it's not going to matter.
[01:10:14] If efforts are not in harmony, results may be indecisive.
[01:10:17] For example, if the aviation combat elements, actions are not harmonized with those of ground
[01:10:23] combat element they are likely, they are unlikely to have a decisive effect.
[01:10:27] If artillery support is not well coordinated with an infantry attack, combined arms,
[01:10:31] synergy will not be achieved and the attack may fail.
[01:10:34] However, achieving this team effort is easier said than done.
[01:10:38] It requires rapidly maneuvering forces often widely dispersed to work together under the
[01:10:44] most adverse conditions.
[01:10:48] Control in combat because war is characterized by chaos, uncertainty and rapid change, control
[01:10:56] quickly breaks down.
[01:10:59] It is probably a mistake to speak of control in combat.
[01:11:04] Think about that right there.
[01:11:07] What the Marine Corps is saying is if you are talking about control in combat, you are
[01:11:13] probably wrong.
[01:11:14] It says it is probably a mistake.
[01:11:16] Unless you are saying control is almost impossible, you shouldn't be talking about control
[01:11:20] in combat.
[01:11:21] I remember the first time I felt the loss of control.
[01:11:29] This is pretty early.
[01:11:30] You go on a raid and you guys breach the door and they are going in.
[01:11:33] I don't have control that anymore.
[01:11:35] If they are going, whatever they are in there, I can't stop them anymore.
[01:11:39] I mean I come on the radio and call in the board and some of the guys will hear it.
[01:11:45] I can make a verb.
[01:11:46] But they are going.
[01:11:48] It is to try and control it is like a stretch.
[01:11:52] It is a reach.
[01:11:56] Marine Corps publication six states that given the nature of war, it is a delusion to think
[01:12:02] that we can be in control with any sort of servitude or precision.
[01:12:06] Look, I am telling you, is it easy?
[01:12:10] If we go here to target and there is no bad guys and they are going to control that thing
[01:12:12] all day long and everyone is perfect and all the guys are doing what I told them to do.
[01:12:17] Big micro manager over here dictating every movement.
[01:12:20] That will work.
[01:12:22] But that is not combat, right?
[01:12:23] It is a mission but it is not combat.
[01:12:25] As anyone who next sense as anyone who has experienced combat will undoubtedly agree, it
[01:12:32] is impossible to control everything.
[01:12:35] Attempts to impose control also can easily undermine the initiative upon which the Marine
[01:12:43] Corps tactics depend.
[01:12:46] Marines can become hesitant.
[01:12:48] They may feel like they must wait for orders before acting.
[01:12:52] We are not likely to move faster or gain leverage over a competent opponent unless Marines
[01:12:58] at every level exercise initiative.
[01:13:02] The dilemma then is this how do we achieve the goal of working together in harmony while exercising
[01:13:06] a more decentralized type of control?
[01:13:10] There is a little bit of a codomy there.
[01:13:11] Working together in harmony but decentralized command at the same time, JP and I were on a call
[01:13:16] with a client yesterday.
[01:13:19] They were talking about how they need their growing rapidly and they have got branches all
[01:13:25] over the place and what they need is those branches to start acting on their own.
[01:13:31] They need to start using decentralized command and JP jumped in and said, hey, what is
[01:13:38] the messaging they are hearing from you?
[01:13:40] He said because when I first got an attached user, this is JP talking, JP first got an
[01:13:46] attached user.
[01:13:48] He was looking around and going, I am waiting for somebody to tell me what to do.
[01:13:53] I was like, hey, bro, you need to just go do what you think you need to do as long
[01:13:58] as it is in line with what we are trying to make happen.
[01:14:02] You can imagine JP 20 or 22 years old.
[01:14:06] I remember the puzzle kind of curious look on this face when I am telling him, just because
[01:14:13] he hadn't really experienced before like, listen, I trust that you are going to make
[01:14:19] the right decision you are going to make things happen.
[01:14:22] When you hear me say, break contact?
[01:14:26] You know what to do?
[01:14:28] Grab your fire team and make it happen.
[01:14:29] When you hear me say, flank, I am not going to tell you where to go, but you know what
[01:14:33] you know what I mean when I say flank, I mean I want you to go on a straight, mergers
[01:14:37] free right now.
[01:14:39] And JP liked that.
[01:14:41] So that attitude has to come.
[01:14:45] You have to, it takes a little bit of getting used to and people generally aren't used
[01:14:49] to it.
[01:14:51] And it takes a certain level of, I don't know what word use.
[01:14:55] It takes a certain level of courage to think, okay, I've never done, I've never just
[01:15:00] had my boss say, yeah, just flank them and gone and flank them.
[01:15:05] Look, there's parameters to flanking.
[01:15:07] If you flank and you move too far, you can get caught off, you can move into the field
[01:15:12] of friendly field of fire, you can, you can cause some real problems.
[01:15:15] But if you know what those parameters are, you have free reign to maneuver within those
[01:15:18] parameters.
[01:15:19] So, so that was a good point coming from JP to this client.
[01:15:23] Like, have you explained to them that, listen, we're here.
[01:15:29] We are the central command of what's going on.
[01:15:32] But we are authorizing you fully to go out and straight up make things happen.
[01:15:40] And that was a mental jump that JP had to make.
[01:15:44] It probably took him 15 minutes to make it because he, what he recognized was I just took
[01:15:50] the shackles off of his body and more important.
[01:15:53] I took the shackles off of his brain to go and just get some.
[01:15:58] And that's something that you, as a leader, have to make sure that you're delivering that
[01:16:02] message to the troops so that they know they can do that.
[01:16:05] And the confidence it takes a leader to be able to do that, that's significant too.
[01:16:11] Because you're natural instinct when you see things going wrong and you see friction
[01:16:13] starting to build, is to start to tell people what to do.
[01:16:16] And this is flat out telling you, in a lot of cases, it's actually the worst thing you can
[01:16:20] possibly do because what we'll create in those people doing the work is hesitation.
[01:16:24] And they'll freeze and they'll look over their shoulder waiting for your guidance.
[01:16:29] And that could be a death sentence.
[01:16:30] That's a death sentence in business as a death sentence in combat.
[01:16:33] And it's actually what we want to do because we think we're helping.
[01:16:36] I want to get in there and help and it actually takes a ton of confidence as a leader.
[01:16:40] And you talked about that feeling of losing control.
[01:16:42] I remember getting to Ramadi and I had this vision of how I was going to be.
[01:16:46] As soon as I got there, I had to break up my teams.
[01:16:47] I couldn't operate as a 13-man team.
[01:16:49] There was too much to do.
[01:16:50] And I remember probably day three, one of my junior lieutenant at a captain got in this
[01:16:56] home to you with his four guys and drove away.
[01:16:58] And I was standing there and I watched the vehicle driving like,
[01:17:00] hi, five, go get some.
[01:17:01] And as soon as he left, and there's a moment, I haven't talked to him until he comes back.
[01:17:07] Yeah.
[01:17:08] Yeah.
[01:17:09] I did that the same exact thing.
[01:17:11] We split up into five different illness.
[01:17:13] And the next thing I know, I'm sending a junior officer, a new guy, junior officer that's
[01:17:18] never been on deployment before.
[01:17:20] Okay, he's got an E6 with him.
[01:17:22] That's got some experience.
[01:17:23] But hey, man, good luck.
[01:17:25] Yeah.
[01:17:26] Go get some.
[01:17:27] And that is definitely something that you have to.
[01:17:30] It's, it's, it's hard.
[01:17:32] It's hard, man.
[01:17:34] It's hard.
[01:17:35] Going back to the book cooperation.
[01:17:36] The beginning of the answer lies in cooperation.
[01:17:40] So the answer that they're talking about is, how do we, how do we achieve the goal of
[01:17:43] working together in harmony while exercising a more decentralized type of control?
[01:17:48] The beginning of the answer lies in cooperation.
[01:17:50] We define cooperation as the union of self-discipline and initiative in a pursuit of
[01:17:55] a common goal.
[01:17:57] Unfortunately, they didn't think of the word dichotomy in the Marine Corps.
[01:18:00] Because that's what they're talking about.
[01:18:02] The union of self-discipline and initiative in pursuit of a common goal.
[01:18:06] Cooperation can be viewed as a component of control.
[01:18:10] Control can easily, can generally be divided into two types, centralized and decentralized.
[01:18:16] Centralized control tends to be one in one direction and works from the top down.
[01:18:20] Someone at a higher level determines what support it's will and will not do.
[01:18:24] Centralized control makes us conform to higher dictates because one person does the thinking
[01:18:29] for the entire organization, the person in control.
[01:18:34] In contrast, decentralized control works from the bottom up.
[01:18:38] Command is exercise, command is the exercise of authority and guidance.
[01:18:43] And control is felt as feedback about the effects of action taken.
[01:18:48] Because thinking is required at all levels.
[01:18:52] Feedback allows the commander to adapt to changing circumstances and to command subsequent action.
[01:18:59] Cooperation is required in decentralized control.
[01:19:02] Subordinates work together laterally and from the bottom up to accomplish tasks that fulfill
[01:19:07] the commander's intent.
[01:19:09] Cooperation means we take the initiative to help those around us accomplish our shared mission.
[01:19:17] So think about what that means.
[01:19:21] It's saying that the command and control, the definition of control in that decentralized
[01:19:25] command is control is, control is bottom up.
[01:19:28] The control comes up to the commander, not from the commander down.
[01:19:31] The command, the mission that can be top down, but the control and how many leaders we work
[01:19:36] with, that is just completely counterintuitive to how things actually should operate is
[01:19:41] the control comes from the bottom, from the point of friction up to the leadership.
[01:19:44] So they can incorporate all that and make big picture changes.
[01:19:47] One, everyone understands what the commander's intent is, what the broad guidance is.
[01:19:53] Then yes, you go.
[01:19:56] You go and make it happen.
[01:19:57] And the control, this is where I thought you were going to say this is where I thought
[01:20:00] you were going to emphasize.
[01:20:01] Because it is an amazing statement.
[01:20:03] The control that we place upon the troops, the control, the what controls them is that
[01:20:12] they're working together.
[01:20:13] That's what controls them is that they're working together.
[01:20:15] So they can't, they, what stops them from going off going off in some other direction is
[01:20:20] that they're working together.
[01:20:21] They're covering and moving for each other.
[01:20:23] If we don't cover and move for each other, if we decide we're not going to cooperate,
[01:20:26] we're not going to cover and move.
[01:20:27] That means Dave is taking his element and going somewhere where I can no longer support you.
[01:20:32] And that can happen.
[01:20:33] So what controls us is that we are working together.
[01:20:36] Our cooperation is what controls us.
[01:20:38] That's incredible.
[01:20:44] Cooperation is essential to marine cortex.
[01:20:46] The flight leader and wing men work on the basis of cooperation.
[01:20:50] These pilots cooperate with the infantry they support.
[01:20:54] It's just so everyone knows you could easily just replace these with cover move.
[01:20:59] The flight leader and the wing men work on the basis of cover move.
[01:21:01] This pilot's cover move with the infantry they support.
[01:21:04] Two infantry units fighting side by side cover move for each other.
[01:21:08] A mobile combat service support detachment and the mechanized force, it supports cover move.
[01:21:15] Cooperation.
[01:21:16] We all work together far more effectively when we communicate laterally than when we communicate
[01:21:22] only through higher headquarters and respond only to centralized direction.
[01:21:26] As an ancillary benefit, we relieve our overloaded communication networks.
[01:21:31] So yeah, talk to your peers, talk to the people next to you.
[01:21:37] Not just hey, I'm going to tell the boss on you.
[01:21:40] Tell him to give you some direction.
[01:21:43] Work out the problems amongst yourselves.
[01:21:45] The history of tactics is filled with examples where cooperation made the difference.
[01:21:50] And control could not.
[01:21:51] One such example occurred during an Iraqi counterattack in Operation Desert Storm.
[01:21:56] Black smoke from a burning from burning oil wells turned the day into night.
[01:22:01] A UH1 Huey pilot used his night vision equipment to lead flights of cobras through the
[01:22:06] near zero visibility to attack Iraqi armored vehicles, especially equipped Huey designated
[01:22:12] targets so that the cobras could engage them at near point blank range with anti-armor
[01:22:17] hellfire missiles.
[01:22:19] For nearly 10 hours, the Huey pilot led flight after flight into the pitched battle, earning
[01:22:24] the Navy Cross for heroism.
[01:22:28] The pilot's works together to destroy targets the Huey could not engage and the cobra
[01:22:33] could not see.
[01:22:35] This example shows what cooperation can accomplish cover move.
[01:22:42] The next section, oddly enough, is called discipline.
[01:22:50] Cooperation can harmonize efforts and get everyone to work together without centralized
[01:22:56] control that undermines initiative.
[01:22:58] However, it raises a more fundamental question.
[01:23:01] How do we prepare people to cooperate when the going gets tough?
[01:23:06] The answer is discipline.
[01:23:08] There is only one kind of discipline, perfect discipline.
[01:23:12] If you do not enforce and maintain discipline, you are potential mergers.
[01:23:17] In the face of adversity and difficulty, discipline enables individuals to pursue what is
[01:23:23] best for those around them, their unit and the Marine Corps.
[01:23:29] Notice that no part of that talked about pursuing what is best for the person themselves.
[01:23:35] Discipline enables individuals to pursue what is best for those around them, their unit
[01:23:40] and the Marine Corps.
[01:23:42] Individuals and units might have the desire, but without discipline, they will be unable
[01:23:46] to accomplish the most difficult tasks in combat, operating faster than the enemy gaining
[01:23:50] advantage, generating decisive force and achieving decisive results.
[01:23:56] In combat, instant obedience to orders is crucial.
[01:24:00] Orders may not be popular, but there comes a point where they must be carried out without
[01:24:04] question.
[01:24:05] Discipline is a result of training, in training for war, discipline should be firm, but
[01:24:09] fair.
[01:24:11] The Marine Corps is known as a highly disciplined fighting force, and I got a pause.
[01:24:17] So that instant obedience to orders being crucial, that's something that I always have
[01:24:24] to discuss with companies, with guys in the military, with guys in the teams.
[01:24:32] What does that actually mean?
[01:24:35] And there's a whole, I mean, it's not that complicated.
[01:24:39] Here's the deal.
[01:24:41] When you see something and you're being told to do something, and it makes sense, you
[01:24:46] do it, and you do it quick.
[01:24:48] If there's something that is going with this is a horrible decision that's coming at you,
[01:24:54] you might need to push back on that decision.
[01:24:56] Up the chain of command, yes, I'm saying that, even in the Marine Corps, I'm telling you.
[01:25:01] If you're being told to end rebuilding and you see an IED in the doorway of the building,
[01:25:08] you should not instantly obey this order.
[01:25:13] That's, that's, your boss doesn't want you to do that.
[01:25:15] Your platoon commander, your platoon sergeant does not want you to do that.
[01:25:20] So the instant obedience to orders, it's crucial, but we also need to remember that there
[01:25:28] is an abroad order that you've been told.
[01:25:31] There's a broad commanders intent.
[01:25:33] The commander's intent is not to get your men and killed doing something stupid.
[01:25:39] The overlying order is, hey, we're going to accomplish this, this larger mission.
[01:25:46] And the tactical call that's being made at this point in time, if it doesn't support that
[01:25:50] overall broader mission, then you should not do it.
[01:25:56] Now there's a whole plethora of situations that can unfold.
[01:26:04] So if I'm telling Dave to enter that building and there's an IED in the, and I'm the guy
[01:26:08] in charge, and I'm telling Dave that there's an IED in the front yard, or I'm telling you
[01:26:13] to enter a building and there's an IED in the door, right?
[01:26:15] And you, you tell me, no, that's a bad call, Jocco.
[01:26:19] I'm not now going to say shut up, Dave, and do what I told you to do.
[01:26:25] I'm going to say, no, we need you in that building, and you're going to say, look, no,
[01:26:29] not a good call.
[01:26:30] You might not have time to tell me there's an IED.
[01:26:32] You might just say, no, not a good call.
[01:26:34] Luckily, you and I have built a relationship of trust where you now, when you tell me you can't
[01:26:39] do something that I'm telling you do, I know the only reason possible that you are not
[01:26:43] doing what I told you to do is because it is not possible to do or it's stupid.
[01:26:48] And then I'm going to, this is a weird thing that I have trouble articulating.
[01:26:52] Now I'm actually going to go instead of telling you what to do, I'm going to tell you
[01:26:57] why it was I wanted you to do it.
[01:26:59] Hey, well, what we need is to strong point of building because we're getting attacked.
[01:27:05] And now you look at me, okay, got that.
[01:27:07] I can do that.
[01:27:08] I'm going to strong point this other building over here and you go do it and then you bring
[01:27:11] us there.
[01:27:12] So instant obedience to orders that makes sense is true.
[01:27:17] Remember that there are broad orders that you need to follow out.
[01:27:22] Now there could be times where, and when you start talking about World War II, there
[01:27:27] was times where it's like, hey, you need to charge that machine gun nest.
[01:27:31] And here's what's going to happen.
[01:27:34] You charge that machine gun nest with your squad and you're going to lose half of them.
[01:27:39] Right?
[01:27:40] If you don't do that, this whole company is going to get killed because we're all going
[01:27:45] to sit here.
[01:27:46] So, so guess what happens then?
[01:27:48] When you tell me you're going to go and I say, hey, man, that's an elevated bunker position.
[01:27:52] And you look at me and go, listen, that's the only way we get off this beach.
[01:27:57] Then guess what I do?
[01:27:59] Instant obedience to orders and we're going to go get it done.
[01:28:02] So this isn't black and white.
[01:28:07] You have to think and these are important.
[01:28:11] There's also a thread here.
[01:28:14] There's so many things to talk about.
[01:28:16] You could talk about this for days, but that idea of perfect discipline that immediate
[01:28:21] response to my orders, it's built on a depth and a level of trust that's so powerful
[01:28:27] that the obedience isn't at a fear of not responding to you.
[01:28:32] Tell me what to do.
[01:28:33] The obedience is the recognition that what he's asking me to do is actually what's in the
[01:28:36] best interest of whatever it is.
[01:28:39] This entire team that we're talking about.
[01:28:42] The examples and if you go deep and deep, the stories of guys charging machine guns
[01:28:48] nests weren't waiting for the commander to come down and say, charge the machine gun
[01:28:52] nests, you're actually, if you have that level of trust, you are so front and front,
[01:28:56] I don't need job to tell me that because I actually know you may, I know you may come
[01:29:01] down to tell, but I know that's going to happen before you come down and tell me
[01:29:04] to men get online.
[01:29:06] We are going to charge this machine gun nest.
[01:29:09] And they're talking about this immediate response to orders.
[01:29:13] Don't think of it as you do what I say or this is the consequence is going to happen
[01:29:18] to you.
[01:29:19] It's that recognition that what I'm asking you to do immediately right now is what is
[01:29:23] the best interest of everybody to include you, although I might as a commander you might
[01:29:27] have to make that decision of, I'm going to, there's going to be loss here.
[01:29:30] I'm going to lose some of my men to do that and that burden of doing that, think about
[01:29:34] how much trust is required from the leadership side to cultivate a response from my
[01:29:39] subordinates who know their men are going to die.
[01:29:42] And perfect discipline is that description of, there's no other way for us to be successful
[01:29:50] unless we do this.
[01:29:51] And if I actually push back and say no, what I really would like to be able to do is say, no,
[01:29:55] I'm doing this instead, which is going to accomplish what you ask.
[01:29:58] So I don't have to take the time to talk to you about it in real time that that comment
[01:30:01] of people think Marine Corps, people follow orders of the, the self discipline that's
[01:30:07] imposed on those Marines at that age.
[01:30:11] Only works with trust up and down the, the chain of command that is so much more powerful
[01:30:16] than, than the words can really describe an important that is.
[01:30:19] Yeah.
[01:30:20] Back to the book, the Marine Corps is known as a highly disciplined fighting force.
[01:30:28] The discipline is one of the strengths that makes Marines equally effective assaulting
[01:30:31] a beach, conducting, conducting a non-combat and evacuation operation, fighting a fire or
[01:30:38] guarding our embassies, nonetheless discipline is founded not only on obedience, but also
[01:30:44] on a sense of duty.
[01:30:46] The discipline needed for cooperation comes from two sources, impose discipline and self
[01:30:52] discipline.
[01:30:53] The first source imposed discipline is more often associated with the term military discipline,
[01:30:59] imposed discipline typified by the prussianist approach is characterized by instant obedience
[01:31:04] to orders.
[01:31:06] External and nature it ensures compliance with established procedures, rules and guidance
[01:31:10] and direction from above.
[01:31:12] It means to achieve efficiency and accomplishment of routine, duties or drills.
[01:31:16] In its most extreme form, it can be rigid, paralyzing and destructive of initiative.
[01:31:22] Opposed discipline also may make units vulnerable to the effects of chaos and uncertainty
[01:31:27] and unable to cooperate with one another.
[01:31:31] So that idea that we just talked about that we were trying to dispel that you and I both
[01:31:37] just tried to dispel, well they're in the process now of dispelting it in the book.
[01:31:42] By saying that this idea of imposed discipline is not the kind that we're talking about.
[01:31:49] In post-discipline, we'll prevent the things you have to do, which is be creative,
[01:31:55] it's the thing that undermines what they just said you have to do, is as opposed to
[01:31:58] discipline.
[01:31:59] I had to break this out for young mark in way the warrior kid explained the difference
[01:32:05] between imposed discipline and self-discipline.
[01:32:10] Carrying on self-discipline is an internal force that morally obligates all Marines to do
[01:32:17] what they know is right.
[01:32:21] In this case to cooperate with every other Marine in pursuit of a common goal, the obligation
[01:32:27] is internal in each individual.
[01:32:31] It is something he or she feels powerfully about.
[01:32:35] Coupled with a sense of camaraderie and a spree decor, it pulls from within and causes
[01:32:40] Marines to do everything they can for fellow Marines.
[01:32:44] At the unit level, this force can be felt as morale.
[01:32:48] No system of tactics can lead to victory when the morale of an army is bad.
[01:32:57] Self-discipline can be seen in successful athletic teams as well as military units.
[01:33:02] Team players instinctively back up their teammates.
[01:33:05] In baseball, the outfielder's cover on flyballs.
[01:33:08] In hockey rarely does only one player rush the goal and football offensive line men do not
[01:33:12] stand by idly on a pass play if no defensive player faces them.
[01:33:18] They may block the first defender they can find.
[01:33:22] They block the first defender they can find.
[01:33:24] Members of squad's and fire teams also work together as teams to accomplish tasks and take
[01:33:28] care of each other.
[01:33:29] This cooperation among teammates cannot be enforced by a coach or leader.
[01:33:33] It depends upon the self-discipline of the individuals.
[01:33:38] Marine discipline is the self-discipline of a successful team, not just the imposed discipline
[01:33:45] of the army of Frederick the Great.
[01:33:48] From Marines, military discipline means accepting personal responsibility.
[01:33:54] I think I wrote a book called Extreme Leadership.
[01:33:59] Self-discipline will not allow us to shirt responsibility or blame others.
[01:34:03] I think I wrote a book called Extreme Leadership.
[01:34:08] A discipline failure, often a failure to act is a personal failure.
[01:34:15] Our form of discipline is also absolute.
[01:34:19] There is no time off.
[01:34:21] Someone else may be in charge, but that does not absolve us from the responsibility to do
[01:34:26] everything we can to achieve the common goal.
[01:34:29] It does not reduce our responsibility to cooperate with fellow Marines in our unit and beyond.
[01:34:37] This discipline is a mindset, a way of thinking and behaving.
[01:34:42] It runs through everything that we do.
[01:34:45] It is much a part of Garrison life as of combat.
[01:34:50] We also carry this sense of personal responsibility and duty to contribute into our private
[01:34:56] lives.
[01:34:57] We see it whenever off-duty Marines take the initiative to help at the scene of an accident.
[01:35:01] Act as leaders in their communities or in other ways do more than their share.
[01:35:09] They do so because of something inward, not because they are compelled by control.
[01:35:16] That's something is self-discipline and it is not limited to one aspect of life.
[01:35:27] Those two pages, man, are...
[01:35:37] It is so succinct and so straightforward the way they describe what Marine discipline is
[01:35:43] and where to place.
[01:35:46] All the time, everywhere, without exception and you are wholly responsible for the success
[01:35:52] of everybody else around you based on your individual actions and that applies everywhere
[01:35:56] in your life.
[01:35:57] It took me three books to explain that.
[01:36:01] Yeah, just crystal clear.
[01:36:06] Crystal clear.
[01:36:07] It concludes here modern tactics rely on cooperation.
[01:36:11] Cooperation in turn depends on discipline.
[01:36:15] Discipline consists of both imposed discipline and self-discipline as leaders of Marines
[01:36:20] we must create a climate in which self-discipline and high level of initiative can flourish
[01:36:24] within the boundaries of military discipline.
[01:36:27] There's the dichotomy right there.
[01:36:32] Initiative can flourish within the boundaries of military discipline.
[01:36:37] That's what you want.
[01:36:40] I always use the word parameters when I'm talking about decentralized command, like when I give
[01:36:46] you the parameters, you can do whatever you want inside those parameters.
[01:36:50] That's what they're talking about.
[01:36:52] You do whatever you want within the boundaries of military discipline.
[01:36:56] This climate depends on us.
[01:36:58] Words are easy.
[01:36:59] Anyone can give an occasional pep talk on the merits of self-discipline.
[01:37:03] Marines judge actions not words and respond positively by leadership to leadership by
[01:37:11] example.
[01:37:13] If the leader creates a climate where perfect discipline is expected and demonstrated cooperation
[01:37:19] will follow.
[01:37:24] The discipline is always a good note to end on.
[01:37:30] Actions not word, not words create discipline.
[01:37:36] So that was two more chapters.
[01:37:40] What do we do?
[01:37:42] Not bad.
[01:37:43] A little shorter.
[01:37:45] Two more chapters.
[01:37:46] We got two more to go and we'll dig into those on the next podcast.
[01:37:54] One once again, something that we hear a lot about, something that I talk about a lot,
[01:38:01] the discipline equals freedom field manual.
[01:38:06] I'm glad I wrote that when I did.
[01:38:08] Because it would be hard for me to write it right now and not just say, hey, just go read
[01:38:11] this book.
[01:38:16] This discipline is a critical factor and allows us to win on the battlefield and it allows
[01:38:22] us to really win everywhere in health, in business, in fitness, in jujitsu, in life.
[01:38:29] You got to maintain the discipline.
[01:38:33] Yes.
[01:38:34] Echo Charles.
[01:38:35] Yes.
[01:38:37] Speaking of discipline, now that you are back from your highly undisciplined vacation.
[01:38:45] Well, you know why?
[01:38:47] Is that wrong?
[01:38:48] Yes.
[01:38:49] That is wrong.
[01:38:50] Oh, you were highly disciplined.
[01:38:51] No, no, no.
[01:38:52] It was quasi-disciplined.
[01:38:53] Crosse, I guess.
[01:38:54] You know, kind of, you know, and there.
[01:38:56] And you know, that was a thing.
[01:38:57] I don't think that is a thing.
[01:38:58] I think that.
[01:38:59] It might work.
[01:39:00] That is not a thing.
[01:39:01] Actually, technically, I think that's a counter-equivalent.
[01:39:03] How does the audience, Dave, is there any sections on quasi-disciplined only or one kind
[01:39:08] of discipline?
[01:39:09] It is not quasi-disciplined.
[01:39:10] It is not quasi-disciplined.
[01:39:11] The quasi kind of makes it antiquated.
[01:39:14] Right.
[01:39:15] Because either you discipline or you not discipline, right?
[01:39:17] In fact, quasi-disciplined is essentially undisciplined.
[01:39:20] That is what I, because you see what I'm coming from.
[01:39:22] So your trip to Hawaii was essentially undisciplined.
[01:39:24] It is not quasi-disciplined.
[01:39:25] Yeah, yeah, you're correct.
[01:39:27] All right.
[01:39:28] Now maybe you said that you had some moments of discipline.
[01:39:30] Yeah.
[01:39:31] For sure.
[01:39:32] You made, you did some work.
[01:39:33] Did some work, did some training, did some training.
[01:39:35] You trained some of the judges.
[01:39:36] No.
[01:39:37] Oh.
[01:39:38] That's dangerous.
[01:39:39] But I saw some, you did two guys.
[01:39:41] So, you know, that's something.
[01:39:43] All right.
[01:39:44] Well, since the rest of us are trying to maintain our discipline, do you have any
[01:39:49] recommendations?
[01:39:50] Yeah.
[01:39:51] And I wouldn't be able to do that.
[01:39:52] Yeah.
[01:39:53] We'll talk about the jujitsu.
[01:39:54] That's a good way to maintain discipline.
[01:39:55] So jujitsu is one of those, what do you call?
[01:39:56] You could call it a dichotomy because you have to have discipline to do jujitsu.
[01:40:00] And jujitsu will kind of give you discipline.
[01:40:04] Well, it will prompt.
[01:40:06] I thought you're going to say, if you do jujitsu, you're going to have to have creativity.
[01:40:09] Yes.
[01:40:10] That too.
[01:40:11] You're going to have a full-on metaphor for life.
[01:40:13] In fact, good deal.
[01:40:16] Dave Worker, you're talking about, you know, in the airplane, right, how do you close
[01:40:20] the distance or whatever.
[01:40:21] So, jujitsu is one of those things.
[01:40:24] When you first learn self-defense, jujitsu, especially from the gracy, that gracy way, it's
[01:40:29] like there's three zones.
[01:40:31] The green zone, which is like your out of range, essentially.
[01:40:35] Then there's the other green zone when you're like too close because you can't take
[01:40:38] effective punches, all the same thing.
[01:40:40] Right.
[01:40:41] Then there's that red zone.
[01:40:42] So when you find yourself in your K when you're, what you're talking about, when you
[01:40:45] find yourself in that red zone, kind of, you know, where you got to react, you go to one
[01:40:48] of the green zones.
[01:40:49] And a plane, obviously, to get to the far green zones, going to take way more time, so
[01:40:53] it doesn't seem like the logical thing to do.
[01:40:54] Yeah, you're a huge risk.
[01:40:55] Yes.
[01:40:56] You're trying to get to the far green zone.
[01:40:57] Yeah, it's like unrealistic.
[01:40:58] In fact, you've got to essentially travel through the whole red zone to get to that grid,
[01:41:02] same thing with jujitsu.
[01:41:03] If you're in the red zone, then again, I mean, it's easier to get out of distance than
[01:41:08] it in a fighting situation than it would be in there playing.
[01:41:11] I know, you got it right.
[01:41:12] There's, there's, there's boundaries there and it different places.
[01:41:15] You'll do different things.
[01:41:16] That thing I described doesn't apply.
[01:41:17] If you're at 25 miles away, you have different responses.
[01:41:20] You're, you're spying on man.
[01:41:21] So on both of them, to get too close to be in range is the safe thing to do.
[01:41:30] It's not as intuitive.
[01:41:31] You know, like if you don't take this, you can run.
[01:41:33] Yep.
[01:41:34] Yeah.
[01:41:35] But you got to be at 25 miles to be able to run.
[01:41:38] If you're at 25 miles, you've got to, well, you just have to know where you are.
[01:41:40] It may be in a, in a fight three feet or there's a range.
[01:41:43] And you have to know if you're inside or outside that range.
[01:41:46] Whatever the range is, it's certainly different than an airplane than in two people fighting.
[01:41:50] But you actually have to know where you are.
[01:41:51] Because if you make a decision inside of that range, you'll get yourself killed.
[01:41:54] If you try to run in an airplane and you're to place where you can't, you'll die period.
[01:41:59] No different.
[01:42:00] And if you're inside that range and you try to close the distance, that will actually
[01:42:03] keep you alive by getting closer.
[01:42:04] Right.
[01:42:05] And you just have to know where you are.
[01:42:06] And when you're untrained, it doesn't seem that obvious.
[01:42:09] Because when I'm to look, I'm fighting with Dave Burke.
[01:42:11] He's punching me in the face.
[01:42:13] My first instinct isn't to go towards those punches to the inside.
[01:42:17] You see them saying, I mean, although they're definitely, they're definitely that kind of
[01:42:20] isn't instinct or is that a training thing?
[01:42:23] No, man.
[01:42:24] If you try punching untrained person in the face, they're not only are they going to go away.
[01:42:27] They're going to turn away.
[01:42:28] They're going to turn their back.
[01:42:29] They're going to run away.
[01:42:31] Just instinctually.
[01:42:32] Yeah.
[01:42:33] For sure.
[01:42:34] But if they have some training and whatever, then yeah.
[01:42:35] So if they're in the cage or in the ring, as soon as someone starts getting hit, they
[01:42:39] know that they need to get close.
[01:42:40] Yeah.
[01:42:41] That's fully trained occasionally.
[01:42:42] You'll see someone trying to run away even in the cage, even in an MMA actual fight.
[01:42:47] Some will try to get away occasionally.
[01:42:49] Yeah.
[01:42:50] But either way, the guy who goes in and closes the distance when they're in trouble, that's
[01:42:54] a trained person.
[01:42:55] Yeah.
[01:42:56] A hundred percent.
[01:42:57] A hundred percent.
[01:42:58] A hundred percent instinctive declaration.
[01:43:02] Okay.
[01:43:03] So you're talking 90, something percent.
[01:43:05] High.
[01:43:06] I think it's high.
[01:43:07] I think hundred percent off the bat.
[01:43:09] Yeah, you could be right.
[01:43:10] Because I'm who untrained.
[01:43:11] Yeah.
[01:43:12] You ever named.
[01:43:13] That's true.
[01:43:14] Because I'm thinking, because what I'm thinking of is like, oh, you got some kid
[01:43:16] that wrestled for two years in junior high school.
[01:43:19] When he starts getting hit, he could very well close the distance.
[01:43:22] Yeah.
[01:43:23] Train.
[01:43:24] But he's trying to get a good point.
[01:43:26] Then again, what do I know?
[01:43:27] That's what it seems like.
[01:43:28] Isn't it weird that your intuition could be just wrong?
[01:43:33] Yeah, because there's specific humor that a button's jitter like an integer to you go
[01:43:36] man, this was a bad decision.
[01:43:39] I just made it.
[01:43:40] It seemed like a good idea.
[01:43:41] It was not.
[01:43:42] Yeah.
[01:43:43] I would think that like in like the natural world that the intuition is going
[01:43:47] to be correct.
[01:43:48] That's what I think.
[01:43:49] But I'm saying it's not.
[01:43:50] That's what I'm saying.
[01:43:51] No, but it's not when you're dealing with trained individuals, like basically manufactured
[01:43:57] scenarios, you know?
[01:43:58] And however chaotic the scenario is.
[01:44:00] You're saying your two humans that grew up on deserted islands with you know, wild in
[01:44:07] the wild.
[01:44:08] Yeah, Dave starts like being aggressive towards me in one or another where it makes
[01:44:13] me uncomfortable.
[01:44:14] I'm leaving 100%.
[01:44:16] Even if he doesn't even throw punches, he just starts getting a great or I'm leaving.
[01:44:20] Really?
[01:44:21] What do you fight or fight?
[01:44:22] Right?
[01:44:23] Flight is like one of them.
[01:44:24] He starts punching me in the face.
[01:44:25] I'm leaving.
[01:44:26] I can get away from those punches or whatever.
[01:44:28] But if he's trained or if he knows I'm going to leave, they're there, it becomes
[01:44:31] the training.
[01:44:32] So you'm saying I'm trained.
[01:44:33] I know he's going to leave for some, I've been through that experience.
[01:44:36] You're saying?
[01:44:37] Yeah, I just know that sometimes my instincts are really bad.
[01:44:40] Oh, yeah, mine too.
[01:44:41] Probably like 99% of the time.
[01:44:44] Yeah.
[01:44:45] Connaless.
[01:44:46] It's a secret.
[01:44:47] It's a secret, yeah.
[01:44:48] Take you to the, you will get good instincts trained into you because they become
[01:44:53] instincts.
[01:44:54] They're coming in.
[01:44:55] They're coming in.
[01:44:56] Yeah.
[01:44:57] They're not trained into you nonetheless.
[01:44:58] There's nothing better.
[01:44:59] You know what I have an instinct for?
[01:45:00] And I don't mean this to be, I'm not trying to attack you right now, like verbally.
[01:45:05] But it means my instinct is to grab you in a guillotine.
[01:45:10] My hand just goes there.
[01:45:12] I do not want our training.
[01:45:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:45:14] For like when we're training for real, I just have you in a guillotine.
[01:45:17] I'm like, boo, we're rolling in the room.
[01:45:19] Yeah.
[01:45:20] I don't know what happened.
[01:45:21] Boom.
[01:45:22] I've got you in a guillotine.
[01:45:23] Yeah.
[01:45:24] I'm not saying you're going to tap, but I'm saying it's there.
[01:45:25] Yes, I agree.
[01:45:26] Yeah, that is one of the things for sure nonetheless.
[01:45:31] When everyone starts to do you two, they're going to need what?
[01:45:34] A gui, a rash guard, and the desire to train really.
[01:45:39] That's what it comes down to.
[01:45:40] I want a place to train.
[01:45:42] And people to train with essentially because you can't.
[01:45:44] That's the big drawback from DJ to you, and you need another human.
[01:45:47] Yes.
[01:45:48] But as far as the guis and the rash guards, what kind of guis you're going to get?
[01:45:49] Because that's still a question.
[01:45:52] It's still a question.
[01:45:53] This shouldn't be a question.
[01:45:54] Way less prevalent now.
[01:45:55] But if you didn't know, you get an origin gui, where do you get them from origin main.com?
[01:46:00] Dave Burke.
[01:46:01] Do you have an origin gui?
[01:46:03] I have two origin guis.
[01:46:05] Boom.
[01:46:06] I use them all the time.
[01:46:07] How many guis do you have?
[01:46:08] Two.
[01:46:09] That one, the use of phrase 100%.
[01:46:12] That applies to the number of guis that I have.
[01:46:14] That's an origin gui.
[01:46:15] Boom.
[01:46:16] Well, good.
[01:46:17] Got some rash guards in there as well.
[01:46:19] Those are good ones.
[01:46:20] Also jeans.
[01:46:21] Merch and denim.
[01:46:22] Yeah.
[01:46:23] American denim.
[01:46:24] Marca made by the team up in Maine.
[01:46:29] You know, those are good.
[01:46:31] Surprisingly fashionable.
[01:46:32] Not overly fashionable.
[01:46:35] That would be a horrible thing.
[01:46:37] Yeah.
[01:46:38] If we started venturing into, well, then that would have to come from Pete.
[01:46:42] Who can be a little bit more overly fashionable?
[01:46:45] Here's the thing about pito.
[01:46:46] He's from Maine.
[01:46:47] So Maine is not exactly the fashion hub of the you know, all states.
[01:46:52] I'm not exactly.
[01:46:53] I'm not.
[01:46:54] like, you know, disparaging his fashion sense. I'm not.
[01:46:58] But I'm so innocent.
[01:46:59] My relative to the world, relative to LA New York and Paris.
[01:47:04] Yeah, you go right in the middle of Paris.
[01:47:06] Yes, and you say, hey, guys,
[01:47:08] Pete has no fashion sense if he's in Paris is what I'm
[01:47:11] right.
[01:47:12] Yes, that is exactly what he's performing in Maine.
[01:47:14] Yeah, he's kind of a priest.
[01:47:16] He's kind of a style.
[01:47:17] Yes, yeah, which to me is perfect.
[01:47:19] Yeah.
[01:47:20] It winds up to be perfect because it's on the mildly.
[01:47:22] It's my house. He's like straight from Paris.
[01:47:26] In my house, he's like a guy from Paris or a guy from New York.
[01:47:31] Yeah, and that's walking off the catwalk into my living room.
[01:47:34] That's what I see.
[01:47:35] You know, well, you got the jeans so boom.
[01:47:37] You're in that house.
[01:47:38] That's what I'm saying.
[01:47:38] Luckily, the jeans are, are, they're, they're functional.
[01:47:43] Was the deal.
[01:47:44] Yeah.
[01:47:44] That's straight functional.
[01:47:46] And talk to you look good in them.
[01:47:47] Let's face it.
[01:47:48] Oh, well, I'm not over here looking at me or other people.
[01:47:52] I'm looking at you.
[01:47:53] Right here the man.
[01:47:54] Hey, got a bunch of other stuff on there.
[01:47:57] T-shirts, joggers, which echo likes.
[01:48:01] I cannot wear joggers.
[01:48:03] Yeah, that's too far for you.
[01:48:05] 100%.
[01:48:06] And then there's also supplements.
[01:48:09] Jocals.
[01:48:10] Dave, how does your daughter like, how does your oldest daughter like strawberry milk?
[01:48:16] It's funny to ask.
[01:48:18] We were actually talking about this the other day.
[01:48:20] I was describing on the last podcast how good strawberry milk tasted.
[01:48:24] And I was trying to use find the right words.
[01:48:27] So I give my son strawberry milk.
[01:48:29] Hmm.
[01:48:30] Because he's, he's five.
[01:48:31] Yeah.
[01:48:32] He likes milk.
[01:48:33] It's good for him.
[01:48:34] Yeah.
[01:48:35] You know, he's got a bit of a sweet tooth.
[01:48:36] So we're not doing Nestle Quaker in that crap.
[01:48:38] We don't do it.
[01:48:39] So, oh, because you don't want to poison your own children.
[01:48:40] No, I don't.
[01:48:41] I love my kids and I don't want to poison them.
[01:48:44] And they don't have that as a frame.
[01:48:45] He's never had it.
[01:48:46] So he doesn't know.
[01:48:47] He just knows the stuff tastes good.
[01:48:49] My daughter, my oldest daughter, snagged tip the bottle from him, slid it off the table,
[01:48:54] towards her.
[01:48:55] I was sitting across him her.
[01:48:56] We weren't talking.
[01:48:57] I was just watching her.
[01:48:58] She took the bottle, drank a sip of his strawberry milk.
[01:49:01] And she closed her eyes and looked up at the sky with her eyes closed and just said,
[01:49:06] to her to herself.
[01:49:08] It's so good.
[01:49:09] That's when I'm like, that's when I knew that how, that's how I feel about
[01:49:14] strawberry milk is what she said to herself about how good it is.
[01:49:17] It is that.
[01:49:18] Yeah.
[01:49:19] Strawberry seems to be to many people kind of the, the top of the taste pyramid.
[01:49:27] I will say this though.
[01:49:29] I can go two strawberries maybe three.
[01:49:33] Now I did go on like a full on strawberry rampage when it first came out.
[01:49:38] You're talking about the adult.
[01:49:39] We don't have a right there.
[01:49:40] The kids want us delicious too.
[01:49:42] But the adult strawberry milk, I went on like a three week rampage of just strawberry.
[01:49:49] And now I'm back to it's in the rotation.
[01:49:52] It's like two strawberries meant strawberry peanut butter.
[01:49:56] I'm probably a month behind.
[01:49:58] I think I got about a month behind you.
[01:50:00] So I'm okay.
[01:50:01] So you're just so actually today on the way here, I went back to mint.
[01:50:05] Had a double scoop of mint on the way here with that little scoop of hair.
[01:50:08] And I was reminded.
[01:50:09] Yeah.
[01:50:10] The mint was so good.
[01:50:12] It was so good.
[01:50:13] So I have finally just come off the exclusive strawberry train.
[01:50:17] Yeah.
[01:50:18] I was surprised strawberry is still good to go.
[01:50:20] Oh yeah.
[01:50:21] I was reminded of how good the mint was today.
[01:50:23] You know what the cool thing is?
[01:50:24] This isn't like being married.
[01:50:25] You didn't get married to strawberry.
[01:50:27] No.
[01:50:28] The strawberry tastes good.
[01:50:30] But you can still just get that mint back on if you want to get that mint.
[01:50:34] That little peanut butter.
[01:50:36] The one scoop.
[01:50:37] If you get the one scoop peanut butter, I'm talking that thing is just a little bit
[01:50:42] of dead fatl tied you over.
[01:50:45] So that's the milk.
[01:50:46] You can get some of that milk.
[01:50:47] You can go.
[01:50:49] This you you Dave each time you've come on this podcast.
[01:50:54] The past three straight podcasts.
[01:50:56] I see you doing something a little bit ritualistic scenario going on over there.
[01:51:00] For you you put something in your mouth.
[01:51:02] You swallow it.
[01:51:03] What is that all about?
[01:51:04] That's the the discipline go to prep me for having my head in the game.
[01:51:12] Which I want on this podcast.
[01:51:14] Actually, I want to be in the game all the time to be honest with you.
[01:51:16] I can't think of any place where I don't want to really be in the game other than getting
[01:51:20] ready to go to bed.
[01:51:22] So the discipline go pills.
[01:51:26] If I'm going to do something that requires me to think, I'm taking it.
[01:51:30] To include this podcast.
[01:51:32] It's you can feel it without question you can feel it.
[01:51:36] But it's it's subtle to it doesn't like it's not like getting the head with the hammer.
[01:51:39] It's it's it's a subtle get you up on the step and you look and you're like, oh, I'm in
[01:51:44] the game.
[01:51:45] And you can feel the during the game.
[01:51:46] It wasn't like a big shock to the system.
[01:51:48] It gets you up there subtly and then you're there.
[01:51:51] And actually you can stay there for a while.
[01:51:53] Yeah, what I look is you look around like two hours later and you're like, you know, this
[01:51:58] be I'm on fire and you're like, oh, yeah, that's right.
[01:52:02] That's right.
[01:52:03] That's what just happened.
[01:52:04] Yeah, you mentioned the warrior kid milk.
[01:52:06] So there's the warrior kid milk.
[01:52:09] And then we have a chocolate which is, you know, summertime.
[01:52:15] I got the cans.
[01:52:17] They're just sitting around my house.
[01:52:18] They're in the fridge.
[01:52:19] They're just getting pulled out my whole family's just cracking out on Dr.
[01:52:23] Koyte.
[01:52:24] So get that a try and don't forget the joint warfare and krill oil.
[01:52:28] Big part.
[01:52:29] See, see even how you're just like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:52:33] Like, yeah, it's just so that's a given.
[01:52:35] Yeah.
[01:52:36] And here's the thing.
[01:52:37] It is a given too.
[01:52:38] That's another one.
[01:52:39] So I mean, if you're working out which we are, the tone in my voice was actually like
[01:52:43] apologetic to the world, that's right.
[01:52:45] Yeah, yeah.
[01:52:46] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:52:47] I can't believe I forgot that because if you're not doing that, the reason why I can
[01:52:51] forget it is because when I brush my teeth in the morning, yeah, I'm taken joint warfare
[01:52:56] when I brush my teeth at night and floss, I'm taking joint warfare, and I'm taking krill
[01:53:00] oil.
[01:53:01] So that's just, that's just how that's just how you say in Hawaii.
[01:53:06] Oh, yeah, 100%, but some people, maybe they don't know.
[01:53:09] Maybe I think most of us do, but yes, let's not forget that.
[01:53:12] That's the point, Krill oil joint warfare, keep yourself physically in the game.
[01:53:16] So you can do whatever.
[01:53:17] Let me lift, did you do it too?
[01:53:19] Boom.
[01:53:20] Let me lift.
[01:53:21] Oh yeah, I'm just saying lifting that.
[01:53:23] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:53:24] You're taking it for granted.
[01:53:25] I got back into back squats by the way.
[01:53:29] Oh, laying down in bed with my wife.
[01:53:32] That's right.
[01:53:33] I said it.
[01:53:34] And she even said, like your legs look big right now.
[01:53:37] She didn't know I got back into back squats.
[01:53:40] What she said about your knee.
[01:53:43] So far.
[01:53:45] Anyway, yeah, so those supplements are outstanding.
[01:53:50] And yeah, keep yourself in the game.
[01:53:52] Get in the game, keep yourself in the game.
[01:53:54] That's how.
[01:53:55] Also, we have our own store.
[01:53:56] It's called JockelStorex, just like you mentioned.
[01:53:58] JockelStore.com.
[01:54:00] This is where you can get the rash guards, t-shirt.
[01:54:02] So you're going to represent while you're on the path.
[01:54:05] This is where you can get this to the merch.
[01:54:07] There's a word. My daughter keeps saying that.
[01:54:10] You're a daughter.
[01:54:11] It's only six years old.
[01:54:12] Yes, sir.
[01:54:13] I know.
[01:54:13] And then she say a merch.
[01:54:14] Because she watches these YouTube videos and their like,
[01:54:17] I'm a touch.
[01:54:18] The merch and I'm like, it's kind of the thing is,
[01:54:21] you know how you're so biased towards your kids.
[01:54:23] Well, I am.
[01:54:24] I don't know what you but.
[01:54:25] And they say something like kind of whack.
[01:54:27] And you're like, oh, that's so cute.
[01:54:28] I'm in that boat right now with a little bit of a whack.
[01:54:30] With the word I recognize that it's not cool.
[01:54:33] Correct.
[01:54:34] That's right. Yeah. Then the last. If you want merch,
[01:54:37] jockels.org.com.
[01:54:38] Truckers hats.
[01:54:39] Yeah.
[01:54:40] Beenies.
[01:54:41] Yes.
[01:54:42] Hoodies.
[01:54:43] Hoodies.
[01:54:44] Lightweight. And they've Brooks here.
[01:54:46] Yeah, no.
[01:54:47] Lightweight.
[01:54:49] Hoodie approved when we're at this house.
[01:54:51] Like he approved it verbally to me.
[01:54:53] Oh, yeah.
[01:54:54] Big time.
[01:54:55] My little brother, can you have the Charles?
[01:54:56] That's his name.
[01:54:57] By the way, listen, why?
[01:54:58] He went out of his way to tell me that that light weight is an
[01:55:02] E.
[01:55:04] I understand.
[01:55:05] Which is.
[01:55:06] Of course, my life's felt like what would you do with a full weight hoodie.
[01:55:08] Oh, yeah.
[01:55:09] I don't know.
[01:55:10] Come on, man.
[01:55:11] Give me a better example.
[01:55:12] No, man.
[01:55:13] These are not back.
[01:55:14] Dave, Liz and San Diego.
[01:55:15] Here's the thing.
[01:55:16] How about my people up in Michigan?
[01:55:18] It would be obvious if you've talking only about the functionality of it.
[01:55:21] But he was talking about everything.
[01:55:23] The feel, the fit, the look.
[01:55:26] Chewy.
[01:55:27] They're good.
[01:55:28] Hatties.
[01:55:29] Also subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already because echo thinks you might not of.
[01:55:36] And then don't forget about the Warrior Kid podcast.
[01:55:38] That one you could forget to because I haven't put it out as often as I should.
[01:55:44] But I should put it out more.
[01:55:45] A lot of parents just have the Warrior Kid podcast on repeat.
[01:55:49] Dave, do the lessons sink in from the Warrior Kid podcast.
[01:55:52] They do.
[01:55:53] I have learned that my kids understand more than I thought they would understand because I watch
[01:55:59] the other react to the lessons I learned in the podcast and the books they sink in.
[01:56:04] If you want to get some soap get it from Irish Oaks Ranch.com because there's a young Warrior
[01:56:10] kid named Aiden who's living on a farm and he's making soap from goat milk.
[01:56:18] Jocquist soap.
[01:56:19] And if you use that soap you can stay clean.
[01:56:22] It's a good one.
[01:56:23] And don't forget about our YouTube channel because echo wants you to watch the video.
[01:56:28] It's an e-makes.
[01:56:30] And he's super excited and thinks that they look cool.
[01:56:33] He's like the paris of movie making.
[01:56:37] So much is time to give up on one of your little extra podcast.
[01:56:43] Number 180, whatever's up.
[01:56:46] Someone wrote music was a little much.
[01:56:49] Yeah.
[01:56:50] I was like, day.
[01:56:51] Come on off the top rope.
[01:56:53] That's a little crazy, right?
[01:56:55] Well, it's a one. It's a 52 second video.
[01:56:58] It's not even one minute.
[01:56:59] And someone said, echo's a music's a little much.
[01:57:02] Yeah.
[01:57:03] Well, you know, I am used to that comment because let's face it sometimes.
[01:57:07] It is.
[01:57:08] It is a little much I get it.
[01:57:09] It's true.
[01:57:10] But at the same time, it depends on what he meant overall.
[01:57:13] Like a little what little too loud or wasn't too aggressive.
[01:57:16] No, I feel like the choice is like to dramatic.
[01:57:18] Or the fact that there's music at all.
[01:57:20] You know, there's just too dramatic.
[01:57:22] You get much the the cello players of the world are real appreciative of your musical taste.
[01:57:28] You did they break out the cellos and you break out the recorder.
[01:57:32] So yeah, if you want to check out little excerpts of this, get the.
[01:57:38] Get the YouTube channel.
[01:57:40] Subscribe to it.
[01:57:42] Smash the link.
[01:57:43] I know.
[01:57:44] I did.
[01:57:45] You did it.
[01:57:46] That's awesome.
[01:57:47] Dave psychological warfare.
[01:57:49] Do you ever have to press play on psychological warfare?
[01:57:54] Unfortunately, once in a blue moon.
[01:57:57] Yeah, I've got it down pretty good at this point.
[01:57:59] But I have what I call psychological warfare in my head.
[01:58:02] Yeah.
[01:58:03] I kind of know what you're going to say at this point.
[01:58:04] So the reality is is I don't need that resource because it's.
[01:58:07] It's there permanently embedded.
[01:58:09] Yeah, I know what you're going to say at this point.
[01:58:11] Yeah, and that's a good point because it's like it's one thing to like listen to it.
[01:58:15] Let's say for the first second, third time or whatever.
[01:58:17] It's like, oh yeah, you're right. You're writing your fired up to sort of do it.
[01:58:20] But at the same time, you're not just getting like jockel like.
[01:58:23] I hate to say it like motivating you to do it.
[01:58:26] You're motivating you with logic.
[01:58:27] Don't get it wrong.
[01:58:28] But you still are getting motivated after while that actual logic gets embedded in your head.
[01:58:32] No, that's the transition from imposed discipline to self-discipline.
[01:58:35] Oh, yeah, right there.
[01:58:36] You know the message.
[01:58:37] You know like, oh, hey, yeah, like you don't feel like doing it.
[01:58:40] But you know you're supposed to do it.
[01:58:41] You know how you're going to feel afterwards.
[01:58:42] And you know the results and the thing is that's a fact.
[01:58:44] So you get reminded of it so many times.
[01:58:47] You listen to it.
[01:58:48] Then you kind of like, oh, yeah, I kind of know that.
[01:58:50] So you can essentially tell yourself that.
[01:58:52] Yes.
[01:58:53] So if you want that, it's on iTunes Google Play and B3.
[01:58:57] Flipside Canvas.
[01:58:58] If you want a visual reminder of the path, go to flipsidecampus.com.
[01:59:04] My brother Dakota Meyer running that thing.
[01:59:07] Making art.
[01:59:10] Dang on your walls with layer with layers, multiple layers.
[01:59:14] Oh, yeah, big time.
[01:59:15] Also on it on it.com slash chocolate, by the way, this is where you can get fitness gear.
[01:59:21] Some good.
[01:59:22] I have this electrolyte supplement that I get.
[01:59:24] It's like a go to by the way.
[01:59:25] It's like electrolyte minerals and whatnot.
[01:59:27] Anyway, get it from on it.
[01:59:28] And so the rings that you so strongly.
[01:59:32] How should I say recommended early on?
[01:59:35] Mm-hmm.
[01:59:36] Coming handy.
[01:59:37] So I brought them to my trip to Coi.
[01:59:38] Oh, yeah, here's the thing about those rings though.
[01:59:41] You have to kind of think ahead on where to hang on.
[01:59:44] She's saying.
[01:59:45] It's not that hard.
[01:59:46] I know.
[01:59:47] But I found myself in a situation where I'm like searching.
[01:59:49] You can't just hang them from the ceiling fence.
[01:59:51] You've just got to find a core manual of adaptation.
[01:59:54] Yeah.
[01:59:55] Previously anticipating.
[01:59:56] Even if you got to hang them from the tree.
[01:59:58] But the last point is it's not like a squat.
[02:00:01] You can't just bring the squat rack to Coi with you.
[02:00:04] You're saying you got to go to Coi.
[02:00:06] You're saying you got to go to Coi.
[02:00:07] But the rings they go with you.
[02:00:08] Boom.
[02:00:09] From in the suitcase.
[02:00:10] I carry literally carry the rings on the plane.
[02:00:12] Whatever.
[02:00:13] So it's easy.
[02:00:14] And then you can get that workout.
[02:00:15] Not to mention the workouts from rings are going to be a lot better than if you don't have
[02:00:19] ring.
[02:00:20] Anyway, get this last stuff.
[02:00:22] Good kettlebells on there.
[02:00:24] Decorative artistic kettlebells on there.
[02:00:27] That's where I get my a lot of good stuff on there.
[02:00:30] On it.
[02:00:31] Docom slash.
[02:00:32] Jock.
[02:00:33] Got a bunch of books.
[02:00:34] There's a wall where there's a will that is live.
[02:00:37] And it's actually available on Kindle right now.
[02:00:40] We just released the Kindle version.
[02:00:42] So apologize.
[02:00:43] It took a little longer.
[02:00:44] Way the warrior kid.
[02:00:46] One.
[02:00:47] And then way the warrior kid.
[02:00:48] Two marks mission.
[02:00:49] That is where you can get your kids on the path.
[02:00:52] Mike in the dragons.
[02:00:53] For anyone that needs to overcome fear.
[02:00:58] Face fear.
[02:00:59] Get Mikey in the dragons.
[02:01:00] Displaning goes freedom field manual.
[02:01:02] This is the adult version of how to get after it.
[02:01:07] And then there's extreme ownership and the economy of leadership, which are books that I wrote with my brother,
[02:01:13] Lave Babin.
[02:01:15] They are the combat leadership lessons we learned and how you can apply them to your life and your business.
[02:01:22] We got echelon front.
[02:01:24] Which is where we solve problems through leadership.
[02:01:27] Leadership consultancy.
[02:01:28] If you want myself if you want Dave Burke if you want life.
[02:01:32] Babin.
[02:01:33] J.P.
[02:01:34] Did Nell.
[02:01:35] If you want Flynn, Cochran.
[02:01:37] If you want Jason Gardner.
[02:01:38] If you want Mike's to really to come to your location and help you align the leadership in your organization.
[02:01:46] Who done this?
[02:01:47] Mike Bima.
[02:01:48] If you want anyone from National Unfront.
[02:01:50] Go to www.slaunfront.com.
[02:01:52] That's what we do.
[02:01:53] We solve problems through leadership.
[02:01:54] We got EF online, which is online, interactive training.
[02:02:01] Because leadership training of any kind is not an occupation.
[02:02:04] You need to get booster shots.
[02:02:07] And that's what EF online is.
[02:02:09] And it's something that you can put through your whole organization.
[02:02:12] Get your whole organization from the frontline troops to the senior leadership on the same path with leadership.
[02:02:19] EF online.com.
[02:02:21] We got the master.
[02:02:23] The master is coming up in September, 19th and 20th and Denver.
[02:02:30] It's almost sold out.
[02:02:32] So if you want to come, you better just register ASAP.
[02:02:36] Sydney, Australia, and December, 4th and 5th.
[02:02:38] Go to extremotownership.com.
[02:02:40] Every one of them have sold out.
[02:02:42] And those will sell out too.
[02:02:44] And then of course, EF Overwatch, which we're taking combat leaders from special operations from combat aviation.
[02:02:52] Guys like Dave Burke, good deal, Dave.
[02:02:55] Yes.
[02:02:56] Guys with that kind of experience.
[02:02:59] And we are placing them into civilian companies where they are using their leadership that they've learned that they've been tested on and putting it to work in the civilian world.
[02:03:13] Of course, you can't have Dave Burke because Dave Burke is with us on the team at echelon front.
[02:03:21] And echelon, you can't anything else?
[02:03:23] I don't.
[02:03:24] But to see Dave Burke here, share time and space with them.
[02:03:29] Other than that, not that.
[02:03:31] Carry on.
[02:03:32] Cheek Dave.
[02:03:33] Nothing to add.
[02:03:34] Cheek.
[02:03:35] And if you do have something to add out there, that's fine.
[02:03:38] There's still a chance you can find us on the In-Webs.
[02:03:41] We are on Twitter, Instagram, and that's a frozen book.
[02:03:46] Echoes at echelon Charles.
[02:03:52] Dave is at Dave David R. Burke, B.E.R. K.E. and I am at Jockawilling.
[02:03:55] And we have been getting granular with the Marine Corps right now, but we certainly honor all the branches of the military army Navy Air Force Marines Coast Guard, including active duty, reserveous guard units and all the vets.
[02:04:12] Thanks to all of you for allowing us the freedom to record this podcast and to live the lives that we live into our police and law enforcement firefighters, paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, board of patrol, secret service.
[02:04:27] All the first responders out there, thanks to you all as well for being there for us when it counts.
[02:04:37] When we need you to keep us safe, you are there standing by and we appreciate it. And to everyone else out there, remember what the Marine Corps says about discipline discipline is absolute.
[02:04:52] There is no quasi discipline. There is no time off.
[02:04:56] discipline is a way of thinking and more important than a way of thinking discipline is a way of behaving.
[02:05:06] And there's about actions, not words, so don't allow any slack. Instead take charge, take action.
[02:05:16] See the initiative and get after it. And until next time, this is Jaco and Echo and Dave out.