Jocko Podcast 183 w/ Jack Carr: Remember Your Cause, And Be a "True Believer"

2019-06-26T20:29:48Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @jackcarrusa @echocharles 0:00:00 – Opening 0:07:33 – Jack Carr. Navy SEAL, Author. 1:45:30 – Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:56:25 – Support: How to Stay on THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collections/men All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/nutrition/jocko-fuel/ Origin Jeans and Clothes: https://originmaine.com/durable-goods/ Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/bjj-mma-fit/ Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko Jocko White Tea: http://www.jockotea.com 2:23:53 – Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

So not easy, like, what it's cool and someone like, like, for someone like yourself that's a sniper that likes to shoot and now it's under your task, you know, commander, it's really easy to get to go right back to what you're super comfortable with which is, hey, I'll just get on my gun and start killing bad guys. You know, I felt like, you know, I'm abandoning them to go to Germany and go, like, taste wine and look at, like, castle walls and these different towns, like, that, no. He's like, oh my, can look at him going those monkey bar things and chase how am I going to make it through if this guy like, like, like that here and he quits. yeah, they had nod that's like level one like like what do you call like there's base level respect There's extra respect and then there's the ceiling above the ceiling there's level one respect when your physical head nods for computer Yeah, let's get a listen to that as I'm checking out That's perfect actually because actually it's good because you can actually have it in the queue You know because a lot of times like you just in the pantry wherever you are and you're like boom I'm looking for the good stuff that ever boom. And that's where you can get echoes echoes videos that he spends allegedly so much time making But once every every four years like the Olympics Like the linear Olympics in Park City every four years a good video is gonna come out Whatever Jack Car like some soap. That's what I got but C67 yeah, C67 got to go back in there, but every time it hurts I'm just like you know there's guys out there for PTSD TBI miss an arms and legs just destroyed and This all I have and hey good I'm seriously Absolutely But what um what is that like keep you from doing mainly well I wake up like it hurts all the time But every time I perm my head and I realize just how lucky I am that after 20 years and all those things like that's all I have to deal with so it's mobility it hurts whatever surgery But C67 spine I'm like I know because I don't think I don't know about that's level two but someone's gonna come up with a like a review or something and it'll warn a clap That's my attention But once they got good at it, like the trade-out guys would say, you know, they'd be calling up myself or the, or the mastery of run it and be like, hey, can you bring me back to life? Who's awesome veteran Marine Incredible guy started this company Making art to hang on your wall and you can it says cool stuff on it like good like this when it goes freedom He's got a whole array of different stuff so check that out Flipside canvas dot com and if you want him to make something tweet him You know, the like, whoever I was walking from like I was, you know, all the things. But once I got back, like when that plane took off, when we landed in San Diego, when I took a breath, realized I'm going to buzz, I see people, guys running on the beach, you know, doing the, doing the buzz thing. and we did have a good time I know you had a good time, but at the same time, you know you're making sacrifices your family's home alone so that's the same thing physical mental get your leadership Mind set sharp keep it sharp EF online if you want to come to the master you better sign up now because they're all sold out They they all sell out very quickly Chicago sold out Denver's heading that way That's September 19th and 20th and then Sydney, Australia Looking forward to that coming down and meeting all people in Australia again If you want to come to that extreme ownership dot com and then EF overwatch if you are looking for someone in your company that knows how to lead Then check out EF overwatch dot com where we got special operators and we got combat eviation Leaders that are transitioning into this filling sector and can help you and your team using the principles of Combat leadership that we write about in extreme ownership and the economy of leadership. I don't know, but I would look at these guys when I first showed up the buds and like, man, like, I shoot out and he's doing crazy climbing these ropes. So, but it's cool for a little bit, cause you got, I think they got a little more liberal with some of the targets there for a while, when they're like, okay, we don't with this highway death, that's not gonna be on me because I denied. Yes, you don't want no you want to be sharp you want to be in tune I I experience this because I get to see it all the time with the companies we were like I see someone that's like really in the game and they're Sharp I'm just like, even the fact that you analyzed like what your strengths and weaknesses were, I was just, I was just like, another way to go. Like this seems like it may work, but it also seems like, what if someone hits me in the face? And of course, you can't say that, especially at that time in the steel teams, like, you know, the, the men, lot of the stuff is going on. but before I got out in Coronado because it was right there I go at lunch and roll with some guys I'll be some researching I think that where we can get you get you and your family back in the game up and so up in Park City Because I personally feel like guilty to have your family not training to have you not training You're taking some extreme ownership of your car You're taking some extreme ownership of that Rees needs to get in the game. Just work Oh, he just gets crazy You know, so good he'll be like I'm hungry going to the store comes home. He's like, I just want you to know how this is going to go and if it's any indication that this beer should be an indication of how this interview is going to go. And, uh, so I went kickin' in the screaming and I probably should have just said Roger that, you know, but, uh, you know, I've, uh, five deployments in a row, and those last three, being fairly intense, uh, I didn't want my guys to go back without me. You know what do you know about you know sort of that cause being on the path Believe it in it truly yeah, fully. So I'm just trying to think time frame like all the guys that I know from Team Five were all there. It's like, you know, I was walking around like I was damn him. Hey, it's real foreign I mean, but sometimes it just doesn't like get it a lot of texts and like you got us at there and I know that you last when he said like secret because you and I both know what gets redacted So, came back from lunch, it was like your back, and you're kind of, you have be able to go to schools, and it's, you know, so the people that they can leave or whatever got married. That's a real problem I can see like a you know, hey, if you're a little bit of our fitness You got the the universal machines or whatever that goes out there jamming up. Yeah, yeah, even even that it's fiction Which is even a lot like half level up even from yeah, Yeah, well, he's definitely we know he's he's gonna be wearing Like the warrior kid of three bucks. Like going out with the Marines, dressing up like a Marine, getting left behind to do this Napper's thoughts. and then there's like another one Whatever, but either way, it's all the same thing short term so in psychological warfare if you're going short game if you're gonna start playing the short game for that moment but I'm like that's a big good place for kind of the cave Gotta go there change gotta transform Was I was like bro, I did I did three sets of pull-ups today because we didn't know I think I didn't need to do 250 pull-ups for work out 350 pull-ups work out. And at that time, the best possible shape looked like Stallone and looked like Arnold. yeah you want to represent even if you're already representing You want to re-re-represent represent more jocco store dot com oh ladies t-shirts, redskirts, hats, everything patches Everything subscribe to this podcast so you can hear jack car and Others talking about their experiences and then leave reviews so that I can laugh at your funny reviews or be like Did you ever had nod to your computer? Like you said, like, good. Yeah, okay, that's what he's doing He goes and gets gays like The plan is actually honestly the ice cream thing is really taking a down hit at my house because malt right And when I hear about people doing it, look, people like that, you know, there was a guy that killed himself recently. Like you think what like what you thought, which is what I thought. Like you could have a guy there for like a year, just kind of hiding out. He tea on those tracks he tells you how to give through moments of weakness like if you're about to eat the wrong thing Because for the short term because the short game long game you can't listen to this Oh, yeah, and it 100% works by the way.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 183.
[00:00:03] Burek O'Charles and me, Jockel Winning.
[00:00:06] Good evening, Eko.
[00:00:07] Good evening.
[00:00:08] Not one of the guys on the ground at like this mission.
[00:00:14] Now, moving to within a click of their target, they had pushed that distraction from their minds.
[00:00:20] And we're solely focused on the deadly challenge before them.
[00:00:25] Dancing at the GPS attached to the stock of his rifle and scanning the terrain ahead,
[00:00:30] Lieutenant Commander James Rees called a quick perimeter.
[00:00:34] Snipers were already moving up to the high ground as team leaders joined Rees for a last
[00:00:40] quick update before the final push to the objective.
[00:00:45] Even with all the technology at their disposal, things could go wrong in a heartbeat.
[00:00:51] Their enemy was cunning and highly adaptive.
[00:00:56] After 16 years at war, the Afghan saying the Americans all have the watches, but we have
[00:01:03] all the time.
[00:01:05] Rang a bit more true than head in the early days.
[00:01:10] What do you think Rees asked a huge beast of a man looking like a creature from another
[00:01:14] world with his A-O-R-1 patterned camouflage body armor and
[00:01:20] ops core half-shell helmet with nods firmly in place?
[00:01:26] Rees looked at his most seasoned troop chief, the light-green glow of the nods illuminated
[00:01:31] through the beard on the man's face, a slight smile that could not be mistaken for anything
[00:01:38] other than the confident look of a professional special operations soldier.
[00:01:45] Just over the rise, Rees replied, predator shows nothing moving, no centuries, nothing.
[00:01:53] His troop chief nodded.
[00:01:55] All right guys, he said to the other four men in the circle, let's do it.
[00:02:01] They rose with resolve and moved with the poise of men who are comfortable in chaos,
[00:02:06] moving up the rocky ridge line to get their teams in place before approaching the target
[00:02:11] to make entry.
[00:02:14] Rees is too easy.
[00:02:15] You're thinking too much again.
[00:02:17] It's just another mission.
[00:02:19] Then why this feeling?
[00:02:23] Maybe it's just the headaches.
[00:02:25] The headaches had plagued Rees for the past several months, finally prompting a visit to
[00:02:29] Balboa Naval Medical Center before this deployment for a series of tests.
[00:02:36] Still no word back from the docks.
[00:02:38] Maybe it's nothing.
[00:02:40] But maybe it's something.
[00:02:43] It's just a long time ago that if something didn't look right, then it probably wasn't.
[00:02:49] That judgment had kept him and his man alive on many of deployment.
[00:02:55] Everything had lined up a little too easy for this target.
[00:02:59] The intel, the offset, infill, the current state of the objective area, and why the
[00:03:05] pressure from higher authority to go after this target.
[00:03:08] When was the last time a flag level command injected itself into a tactical planning process?
[00:03:16] Something wasn't added up.
[00:03:20] Maybe everything's fine.
[00:03:22] Maybe it's that, maybe it's a bit of paranoia.
[00:03:28] Maybe I'm getting too old for this.
[00:03:31] Focus.
[00:03:32] Rees.
[00:03:34] It wasn't the first time that they had approached a target they suspected was a possible
[00:03:39] ambush.
[00:03:40] At one point in the war, when intel had pointed to the high possibility of an ambush corroborated
[00:03:47] by multiple sources, both human and technical, Rees would have knocked on the door with
[00:03:51] a thermobaric AT4 or a few 105 rounds from an AC 130 gunship.
[00:03:59] This was the first time that actual tactics had been dictated from higher.
[00:04:04] A man who would not be on the ground, focus on the mission Rees.
[00:04:14] One more check with the tactical operations center.
[00:04:16] A forward-based command also called the talk and to look at the predator feed.
[00:04:24] Nothing.
[00:04:26] Another check with the sniper teams.
[00:04:29] Nothing moving.
[00:04:32] That glanced up at the military crest of the hill in front of him.
[00:04:37] Through his nods, he could see the assault teams set and ready to move.
[00:04:42] He couldn't see the snipers, which gave him cause for a thoughtful smile.
[00:04:50] Best in the business.
[00:04:54] Rees keyed his radio and opened his mouth to give the order to move.
[00:05:02] Then it all went black.
[00:05:05] The explosion knocked Rees back ten yards and ripped his helmet from his head as the entire
[00:05:10] military crest of the hill in front of him.
[00:05:12] He erupted in a concussion of violence and death.
[00:05:19] He meets friends, husbands and fathers who one moment earlier had represented the best
[00:05:27] spots in special operations force in the world were gone in less than a second.
[00:05:50] Somewhere a true believer is training to kill you.
[00:05:59] He is training with minimum food or water in austere conditions day and night.
[00:06:06] The only thing clean on him is his weapon and he made his web gear.
[00:06:13] He doesn't worry about what work out to do, his rock weighs, what it weighs, his runs
[00:06:22] and when the enemy stops chasing him.
[00:06:27] The true believer doesn't care how hard it is.
[00:06:32] He only knows that he wins or he dies.
[00:06:47] He doesn't go home at 1700.
[00:06:57] Those are two excerpts from two books.
[00:07:05] The second book is called True Believer.
[00:07:10] These books are fiction.
[00:07:14] They are novels and with the exception of the novel Musashi by Eli Yoshikawa.
[00:07:23] I have not covered any novels on the podcast.
[00:07:27] But I'm actually not here to talk about those novels.
[00:07:31] The novels, these books were written by Asio.
[00:07:36] Asio that I knew and Asio that is here with us tonight to share his experiences in the
[00:07:45] teams.
[00:07:55] A father and a writer of fiction.
[00:08:00] His name is Jack Carr.
[00:08:04] Welcome to the show.
[00:08:05] Thank you so much for having me.
[00:08:07] It's great to be here.
[00:08:09] Good to finally get you out here.
[00:08:11] I know we tried to hook this up for a little while.
[00:08:13] It's good and you sent me your latest book and I said to myself, okay, well let's just
[00:08:18] make this happen.
[00:08:20] So, yeah, man.
[00:08:21] Let's talk a little bit about you.
[00:08:22] Well, that's already what I've never heard that True Believer read quite so well.
[00:08:28] So I used to read that to my guys in the teams and then read your laws of combat.
[00:08:33] Read those to them.
[00:08:35] And that one would just set the stage with the series.
[00:08:39] Who are going after here?
[00:08:41] And your laws of combat, which of course I pass on to everybody I've ever worked with ever
[00:08:47] sense.
[00:08:48] Right.
[00:08:49] I probably found a couple of them in the book for those that were there's a couple.
[00:08:52] I put them in italics to give you credit.
[00:08:56] Jack.
[00:08:57] So let's talk a little bit about where it all started.
[00:09:01] Like what year were you born?
[00:09:03] Yeah, 73.
[00:09:04] So you're kind of a young and I'm like, well, what do you want?
[00:09:07] You're a one year old.
[00:09:08] 71.
[00:09:09] Okay.
[00:09:10] And in childhood, the 80s though, you know, as this form of years were like 80 to 89.
[00:09:15] And you grew up in North Cal.
[00:09:16] North Cal.
[00:09:17] And my mom was librarian from a very early age.
[00:09:20] Were you born in area or city area?
[00:09:22] Yeah.
[00:09:23] Yeah.
[00:09:24] I'm not too rural.
[00:09:25] Small town, I'd say.
[00:09:26] Small town.
[00:09:27] Yep.
[00:09:28] So north of San Francisco.
[00:09:30] But today is a D.A.
[00:09:33] So probably appropriate.
[00:09:34] We talked about that.
[00:09:35] My grandfather was killed in World War II, some very early age, surrounded by those silk
[00:09:38] maps, who's an AV or marine, through the course air, which is that plain.
[00:09:42] Yeah.
[00:09:43] The goal wings that would fold up.
[00:09:45] Right about that time, there was a show black sheep squadron on TV.
[00:09:48] I went to an air show and met a pavy bointin before he passed away.
[00:09:52] He got his book signed.
[00:09:53] And so I always knew that the military was where I was going.
[00:09:57] Just earlier on, I didn't know exactly what that was going to be.
[00:10:00] But did you ever think about trying to be a pilot?
[00:10:02] You know, fleetingly, I'm sure I did.
[00:10:04] But do I Marine Corps?
[00:10:06] Immediately as a pilot, just to follow in the footsteps of my grandfather.
[00:10:10] But in a became very obvious that the might skill set lay at a more primal level on the
[00:10:15] round, which is attracted to that for some reason.
[00:10:18] Probably a lot of, well, in the DNA for sure.
[00:10:21] But also the influence of popular culture, the books and movies that I read, growing up,
[00:10:26] those are the guys that I, that I wanted to be like and had backgrounds that I wanted
[00:10:30] to have one day.
[00:10:31] But my grandfather didn't make a back from World War II.
[00:10:33] He was killed off Okinawa in 1945 in May, so near the end of the war.
[00:10:38] And his wings made a back, all pictures of his black and white pictures of his squadron
[00:10:43] and by his plane, the silk maps they gave a year back then, because they hit the water
[00:10:47] with paper, they had just disintegrated, so they had these silk maps.
[00:10:50] So I just grew up with him, really, as kind of the ideal hero, I guess.
[00:10:55] Obviously, that were met, I'm an either, to my dad, because it was a born-well.
[00:10:58] He was deployed.
[00:10:59] So, so, grew up with just knowing, took the military with my calling, there was never anything
[00:11:04] else I wanted to do.
[00:11:05] And then, early on, I found out what seals were.
[00:11:08] And your mom was a librarian?
[00:11:09] Yep, yep, still is to this day.
[00:11:11] And so, were you into reading?
[00:11:12] Yep, yeah, a group surrounded by books.
[00:11:15] And she had just always naturally gravitated when I got to be about fifth grade, I'd say,
[00:11:19] towards the things that the adults are reading at the time.
[00:11:22] So Tom Clancy, David Morrell, Nelson Demil, AJ Quinnell, J.C. Pollock, Mark Olden,
[00:11:27] these guys in the 80s that had protagonist with seal backgrounds or CIA backgrounds or
[00:11:32] a special forces background.
[00:11:34] So, not having the internet and not having that many non-fiction books written about seals.
[00:11:40] That's what I read.
[00:11:41] And I knew this is where I'm going.
[00:11:42] And then after that's done, I want to write fiction like these guys.
[00:11:46] So those are the two things that I wanted to do with my life.
[00:11:48] How old were you and you actually found out about the seal teams in fifth grade?
[00:11:52] Seven, so second grade.
[00:11:55] Second grade?
[00:11:56] Yep, you found out about the seal teams?
[00:11:57] Yep, from what?
[00:11:58] So back then there were four channels back then growing up.
[00:12:01] So there was ABC, CBS, NBC, and then that one outlier channel that always had some, we're
[00:12:06] the more two movie on it going all the time.
[00:12:08] And I was at a remote control back in the late 70s.
[00:12:11] So the Sundays were football days.
[00:12:14] And I was not interested in football at all.
[00:12:16] But I was interested in that warm movie to have planned opposite football.
[00:12:19] So at a commercial, my dad would look at his watch.
[00:12:22] And I can still remember it to this day, sit on the couch and he said, go.
[00:12:24] And I'd have two minutes to run up, change that channel to that outlier channel.
[00:12:29] And then sit back down, watch that movie, and then he, say, turn it back back to football
[00:12:33] two minutes later.
[00:12:34] So I got to do that.
[00:12:35] And then I just went through the football parts and then run up and change it to whatever
[00:12:39] warm movie was planned.
[00:12:40] So this car is an attention deficit disorder without question.
[00:12:42] Maybe he has the train.
[00:12:43] He has the incredible patience and imagination.
[00:12:46] You got to fill in the blanks, direct that.
[00:12:48] That might be it.
[00:12:49] That might be it.
[00:12:50] And yeah, so one of those movies was the frogman.
[00:12:53] It showed these guys climb up over the beaches ahead of a conventional force landing
[00:12:57] and put an explosives on these obstacles.
[00:13:00] And I asked my dad, hey, who are these guys?
[00:13:02] And he said those are frogmen.
[00:13:04] And he said, okay, what's a frogman?
[00:13:06] He said, ask your mother.
[00:13:07] So I did.
[00:13:08] And then we went down to the local library because she would take any excuse to get us to the
[00:13:12] library and do research.
[00:13:13] Show us how to use the do-ey-destinal system, pull out the card, things, the whole deal,
[00:13:17] and did a little research.
[00:13:19] And there was hardly anything written back then.
[00:13:20] There was a couple magazines that had mentions of seals, a couple nonfiction books that
[00:13:24] had a chapter or a paragraph or two on seals.
[00:13:27] It was not much at all.
[00:13:28] Not much at all.
[00:13:29] And but my takeaway was that these guys are touted anyway as one of the most elite
[00:13:33] fighting forces in the world.
[00:13:35] And the training is the toughest ever-devised biomatering military.
[00:13:37] Arguably.
[00:13:38] That was my deal.
[00:13:39] That was my deal.
[00:13:40] That was my deal.
[00:13:41] That was my deal.
[00:13:42] That was my deal.
[00:13:43] That was my deal.
[00:13:44] That's the same thing.
[00:13:45] We all know that's an arguable name.
[00:13:46] Exactly.
[00:13:47] There's all kinds of different heart parts of all different training.
[00:13:48] Did go eat Nemori, one Emori a day.
[00:13:51] I would not be a happy camper.
[00:13:52] But so everyone's got their little, their little challenges.
[00:13:56] I heard the same thing.
[00:13:58] Exactly.
[00:13:59] And yeah.
[00:14:00] And you find out that it's a-
[00:14:00] So what did you do?
[00:14:02] Did you start preparing for it physically?
[00:14:04] Yep.
[00:14:05] Oh yeah.
[00:14:06] Everything I did from that.
[00:14:07] So I guess I did an early form of crossfit.
[00:14:10] I guess.
[00:14:11] Before a crossfit was the thing in high school.
[00:14:13] So not in the younger years, you know, how I was to play in soccer,
[00:14:17] running around cross country, doing all that sort of.
[00:14:19] But I do credit cross country in those hills,
[00:14:22] and Northern California, with given me four
[00:14:24] memories in that no never quit.
[00:14:26] I see people stop it on the hill that was giving me.
[00:14:28] And would you like a pretty good runner?
[00:14:29] I was okay.
[00:14:30] Yeah, it was good.
[00:14:31] But there were some guys that were really, really good.
[00:14:33] Mine was just, you know, dog and determination, really.
[00:14:36] So I was pretty good, but not the greatest.
[00:14:39] And you know, but I love it when I'd see people walking,
[00:14:41] especially on the hills.
[00:14:42] When people from the flat lands would come up to our horse
[00:14:44] and they put that first hill and just a walk,
[00:14:47] we would just devastate them.
[00:14:48] And that which is I just feed off that kind of like in a week
[00:14:50] when people would quit and I always feel bad talking about this.
[00:14:53] But I mean, it's true.
[00:14:54] Some people would say, come back, no, don't quit.
[00:14:56] Come back.
[00:14:57] I didn't say one or see this later.
[00:14:59] This is so solid.
[00:15:00] Exactly.
[00:15:01] This is what this program is designed to do.
[00:15:03] And so I kind of fed off that I guess.
[00:15:05] I love this.
[00:15:06] Especially when the biggest strongest fastest guys for those first three
[00:15:08] weeks or whatever it was, but what's the first couple?
[00:15:12] What's the first couple?
[00:15:13] Just, just quitting first couple hours.
[00:15:15] I don't know.
[00:15:15] People said that was going to happen and it did.
[00:15:18] And I'm just studs where I thought to myself, wow, this guy
[00:15:21] seems like a complete stud mentally physically.
[00:15:25] Just legit and then just go way to go right away.
[00:15:29] How is that?
[00:15:30] I don't know, but I would look at these guys when I first
[00:15:32] showed up the buds and like, man, like,
[00:15:33] I shoot out and he's doing crazy climbing these ropes.
[00:15:36] He's like, oh my, can look at him going those monkey bar
[00:15:39] things and chase how am I going to make it through if this guy
[00:15:43] like, like, like that here and he quits.
[00:15:45] I'm like, oh, I see how this works.
[00:15:47] Yeah, you're men I get weak exactly.
[00:15:50] I can do this.
[00:15:51] So, so you did running?
[00:15:53] Yeah, you did cross the country.
[00:15:55] Yeah, early on, did that stuff soccer.
[00:15:57] The cross in high school.
[00:15:59] But then I'd ride my bike to school, which was, I don't know,
[00:16:02] how I like at least 10 miles I guess.
[00:16:04] So early morning, the California cold and because I was part of training
[00:16:09] and I'd get home and we have this kind of place at whatever from one of our kids.
[00:16:14] And I do pull up so I'll be holding different,
[00:16:17] trying to make an obstacle course for myself when I got home.
[00:16:21] And I would be knocking out like 20 pull ups at whatever 13, 14 years old.
[00:16:25] And then go have like some pasta or a piece of bread with butter on it
[00:16:29] for my snack.
[00:16:30] Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:31] And start training, start training martial arts pretty early too.
[00:16:36] But I was searching because local Taiwan dope place, right?
[00:16:41] And you're doing some kada stuff and you're doing a little bit.
[00:16:43] Can you even hear how old were you?
[00:16:46] That would probably be fresh, but I was 14, let's say.
[00:16:49] So even as a 14 year old, you're like, wow.
[00:16:52] Like this seems like it may work, but it also seems like,
[00:16:56] what if someone hits me in the face?
[00:16:58] Yeah, yeah, work.
[00:16:59] Right.
[00:17:00] 13 year old.
[00:17:01] Yeah, kind of picked up on that.
[00:17:02] Yeah, which is, I give you credit.
[00:17:04] Well, because I'm guys can be convincing.
[00:17:06] You know, yeah, that's how you see these videos of people online that are making
[00:17:11] people fall down by a pointing out of middle area, yelling their key eye out of them.
[00:17:15] I know, it's very nice.
[00:17:16] People literally fall down and start shaking.
[00:17:20] It's crazy.
[00:17:21] Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:17:22] But I can add grew up also.
[00:17:23] Like, talk about that.
[00:17:24] It's the influence of popular culture.
[00:17:26] So Rocky movies.
[00:17:28] I was just, wow, man, that's fighting right there.
[00:17:31] I want to learn how to do that.
[00:17:32] How do I learn how to do that and know what I'm going to call for you?
[00:17:34] Well, there wasn't really a place to go.
[00:17:36] But that, that, that, that, tenacity, you know, they get enough every time you get knocked
[00:17:40] down.
[00:17:41] Like, I think those things really wore off on me.
[00:17:43] Like, I took that seriously and still do to this day.
[00:17:47] What kind of music were you listening to?
[00:17:48] I didn't really do the music thing to the last few years.
[00:17:51] Really?
[00:17:52] It was like quite.
[00:17:53] Yep.
[00:17:54] I realized I'm starting to give music less credit than I used to.
[00:17:58] First, I used to look, I used to, when I meet people and I talk to them for a little
[00:18:01] bit.
[00:18:02] I mean, music did you listen to grown up?
[00:18:04] Because it would always kind of fill me in about kind of who they were because when
[00:18:10] we grew up, you, you only listen to what you kind of, you, you didn't get exposed to a
[00:18:14] bunch of stuff.
[00:18:15] You kind of had to figure it out and go down that channel.
[00:18:18] And so if you listen to heavy metal, okay, I see, you know, I see what you do.
[00:18:22] And or you listen to, you know, Leonard Skinner, okay, cool, I get where I get.
[00:18:26] I could, you could just kind of know because people wouldn't say, because what does
[00:18:28] everyone say now, what do you listen to?
[00:18:30] They say everything, because everything's free.
[00:18:31] They can listen to all this different kinds and it's just wide open.
[00:18:34] And that's what all these kids say nowadays.
[00:18:36] Oh, I listen to everything, a little bit of everything.
[00:18:39] And so don't offend anyone.
[00:18:41] Yeah.
[00:18:42] Yeah.
[00:18:43] And so you just weren't even in the music.
[00:18:44] No, not until I got my driver's license and then I got, you know, had to because
[00:18:46] you had other people in the car and they bring a cassette tape.
[00:18:48] I'm going to make a mixed tape and put that thing in.
[00:18:52] And for whatever reason, when I grew up, people listened to stuff like 60s, 70s.
[00:18:56] That's the same thing.
[00:18:57] Well, my dad had a baricuda and the car, like the sports car, like a set of three
[00:19:05] baricuda yellow with and you're saying it impressed.
[00:19:09] Yeah.
[00:19:10] But it was not because it was my dad being a broke teacher, needed a new car and
[00:19:15] went out and paid whatever 1, 1800 bucks for this car that was rusty, but it had an
[00:19:20] eight track in it.
[00:19:21] I'm sorry.
[00:19:22] And my dad, I think he had one eight track and it was Hank Williams.
[00:19:25] Like Hank, well, that's it.
[00:19:27] Yeah, Hank Williams senior.
[00:19:28] So we listened to a lot of Hank Williams when I was growing up.
[00:19:31] We had Kenny Rogers.
[00:19:32] Yeah.
[00:19:33] We had the gambler.
[00:19:34] I'm sorry to hear that.
[00:19:35] We had the gambler every morning.
[00:19:36] I got off for school.
[00:19:37] Wasn't an eight track.
[00:19:38] I think my dad was an early adopter.
[00:19:39] But he's very good because yeah, he got a good sense with the cassette player.
[00:19:42] Exactly.
[00:19:43] And I remember this day every day on the way to school was the gambler.
[00:19:46] Yeah.
[00:19:47] All right.
[00:19:48] So what did your dad do?
[00:19:49] I was in attorney at that time and then got into real estate.
[00:19:52] Probably later on and then retired early.
[00:19:55] So okay, so you're now at what point did you say?
[00:19:59] Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to go for sure.
[00:20:02] Like what point was this 10 years old?
[00:20:04] Was this 12 years old?
[00:20:05] Seven, seven years old.
[00:20:06] All right.
[00:20:07] Yeah, this is what I'm doing.
[00:20:08] And what made you decide anything else significant from high school?
[00:20:12] Your playing soccer, your playing the cross.
[00:20:14] Yeah.
[00:20:15] Run and pull ups on the monkey.
[00:20:16] Back in forever.
[00:20:17] Trail running.
[00:20:18] All that sort of thing is getting ready thinking about my next steps.
[00:20:21] And no one that there was going to be a little bit of pause there to go to college
[00:20:24] first, just in case because we have to have contingency plans to share.
[00:20:27] So you looked and said like, okay, I'm going to go to college.
[00:20:29] Yeah.
[00:20:30] Yeah.
[00:20:31] That's what I need to do that because I need to get stronger, bigger, faster.
[00:20:36] And I thought I needed to do anyone else.
[00:20:37] I don't know if that's the case or not.
[00:20:39] But probably not.
[00:20:40] But you were just more humble and you were saying, hey, I need to be in better shape.
[00:20:43] And I thought there was eight guys on a seal team.
[00:20:46] And I was going to be one of those guys and if I was going to be one of those guys, I
[00:20:48] needed to be in the best possible shape.
[00:20:51] And at that time, the best possible shape looked like Stallone and looked like Arnold.
[00:20:56] So I did not look like either of those guys.
[00:20:59] And I still don't.
[00:21:00] I never did.
[00:21:01] But I thought, I needed to hit the iron here.
[00:21:04] I need to get boxing.
[00:21:05] And I did a little bit in high school.
[00:21:08] So back to that martial arts school, the Taekwondo thing that was an instructor there.
[00:21:12] It's kind of new.
[00:21:13] This wasn't quite the deal.
[00:21:15] Like a brown belt in Taekwondo.
[00:21:17] And then from my last, I guess, you're in a half of high school.
[00:21:20] He wanted to start his own thing.
[00:21:22] And so I go pick him up in my car because you didn't have one.
[00:21:24] And we go to the local park.
[00:21:26] And we boxed.
[00:21:27] And it was like, jab reverse hook.
[00:21:30] And then I gave him the basics.
[00:21:32] And that was awesome.
[00:21:33] One, two, three.
[00:21:35] I absolutely love it.
[00:21:36] That was the largest 24 hours.
[00:21:37] Yes.
[00:21:38] Exactly.
[00:21:39] The one tuned through.
[00:21:40] My learned about it, Taekwondo was, you know, like, because he did some wrestling.
[00:21:42] Oh, so I had to do a little of that.
[00:21:44] This guy was early MMA.
[00:21:45] Exactly.
[00:21:46] Exactly.
[00:21:47] Yep.
[00:21:48] He told me he had a car.
[00:21:49] Yeah.
[00:21:50] He was a good early MMA subman.
[00:21:51] That's such a great thing.
[00:21:52] And he's still doing it today.
[00:21:53] Yeah.
[00:21:54] Mike Valentine is now in cinema and you hear his buddy has a place up in New
[00:21:56] California.
[00:21:57] And he's still doing it.
[00:21:58] And as soon as he found out about your Getsu, he was doing that.
[00:22:01] Oh, good for him.
[00:22:02] He was driving a San Francisco and working out with whoever was the San Francisco guy in the
[00:22:06] early 90s, I guess.
[00:22:07] And yes.
[00:22:08] Yes.
[00:22:09] We were talking about health.
[00:22:10] Gracie.
[00:22:11] I don't know.
[00:22:12] Charles Gracie, babe.
[00:22:13] There's a bunch of options up there.
[00:22:14] Yeah.
[00:22:15] But nobody was really doing that.
[00:22:16] Nobody was mixing stuff up like that.
[00:22:17] I knew about anyway.
[00:22:18] My little town of whatever, you know, of many people that was.
[00:22:22] But then I just kept on that path.
[00:22:23] Just kept on I thought it was going to be a lifelong path.
[00:22:26] And but I peaked in about 95.
[00:22:28] And that was in college.
[00:22:29] Yeah.
[00:22:30] So you end up going to college.
[00:22:31] What do you go to study college for?
[00:22:33] Well, I wanted to get out of there as soon as possible.
[00:22:35] So I get to the seal teams.
[00:22:37] And so justice studies seem to be criminology.
[00:22:39] It seemed to be the thing that you could just, hey, that's kind of interesting.
[00:22:44] And I can get through this thing in four years and get to the teams.
[00:22:46] And your backup plan would have been some kind of cop or something like that.
[00:22:50] I guess, but I didn't really waste too much time thinking about a backup plan.
[00:22:53] I just knew that college having that degree was the backup plan.
[00:22:56] But I'd figure that out later.
[00:22:57] It was full on devoted to figuring out how to get to the teams.
[00:23:01] And then being the best shape, I could mentally physically spiritually before I got there.
[00:23:05] When did you go to a recruiter, what year of college after I finished?
[00:23:09] After you finished college?
[00:23:10] I thought it was going to be like four years ago.
[00:23:12] Like you go to the recruiter and there's a bus waiting outside and you walk through and
[00:23:15] you get on the bus and off you go.
[00:23:17] I know totally ignorant.
[00:23:18] Yeah, it's crazy.
[00:23:19] It's very weird until you do it.
[00:23:21] Well, I did research enough to find out that there was something called a die of
[00:23:24] ferro program.
[00:23:25] And my recruiter didn't even know what it was.
[00:23:28] But I was in the back of a book and I forget the name of the book, a paperback book,
[00:23:31] the talk about all sorts of different special operations.
[00:23:33] And I had like one paragraph on how to get to those places.
[00:23:37] But the seal, it said die of ferro program.
[00:23:39] So I went in there.
[00:23:40] It was kind of a scam.
[00:23:42] I did that program too.
[00:23:43] Total scam. Like they get you to sign on for six years.
[00:23:46] And they said you guaranteed a chance to try out.
[00:23:50] Yeah, that's all I need.
[00:23:51] That's what I want.
[00:23:52] I want the guaranteed to try out.
[00:23:53] That's all I need.
[00:23:54] And then you get to bootcamp and everybody got a chance and when I was there anyway.
[00:23:58] To try out.
[00:23:59] I signed up for six.
[00:24:00] These guys for four and we all get the chance to ding it.
[00:24:03] But anyway, ended up spending the 20 years in anyway.
[00:24:06] Yeah.
[00:24:06] So what year was it that you actually listed in the Navy?
[00:24:10] 96.
[00:24:11] 96.
[00:24:11] So got an I thought like I said a thousand of walk.
[00:24:13] I don't know that bus.
[00:24:14] And then I'm training and I roll my ankle.
[00:24:16] And I'm like oh man, that's going to be the end.
[00:24:18] And I can't believe it's like this huge.
[00:24:20] I thought it was broken and it'd up just been whatever.
[00:24:23] That's brave.
[00:24:24] Yeah, nothing.
[00:24:25] That must be what ever.
[00:24:26] It's how like blue 21.
[00:24:28] And yeah, so you think like I think it's black and blue ankle.
[00:24:31] It's huge.
[00:24:32] And it's like oh man, what did I do?
[00:24:34] I was trying to run.
[00:24:35] Why was I training that day?
[00:24:36] I should have just been just relaxed.
[00:24:37] Not gotten hurt.
[00:24:38] And then so I'm going to crush this for a couple of months and then go back after it.
[00:24:42] And got the pool.
[00:24:43] How long was it from the time you enlisted until the time you shipped out?
[00:24:48] Gosh, you know, there's all those things you're supposed to do ahead of time when you're
[00:24:51] on.
[00:24:52] For the call, you're supposed to be going to classes.
[00:24:54] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:24:55] I didn't do any of that.
[00:24:56] I didn't do any of that stuff though because it was encouraged.
[00:24:59] But I somewhere I found out it was not mandatory.
[00:25:01] And I was like okay good because I don't want to have to, you know, do whatever.
[00:25:04] These 10 pushups with these people.
[00:25:05] I need to be actually training.
[00:25:06] Was it a month though?
[00:25:08] No, it was.
[00:25:09] It was months.
[00:25:10] Yeah, it was years.
[00:25:11] No, it was like five months.
[00:25:12] Or something like that.
[00:25:13] That's just like a little heads up to people.
[00:25:15] Like you think what like what you thought, which is what I thought.
[00:25:18] Hey, once I sign up, I'm just going to get on a bus.
[00:25:20] That's cool.
[00:25:21] I'm good.
[00:25:22] And really you get to go survive for another five months.
[00:25:25] You're saying, what's as you're waiting to go?
[00:25:27] Because you have certain billets allowed and all this stuff.
[00:25:29] So it's kind of a pain.
[00:25:30] Yep, and you got to do the medical stuff.
[00:25:32] The dental stuff.
[00:25:33] Take the ad.
[00:25:34] Bad.
[00:25:35] And all that sort of thing to get ready.
[00:25:36] So those, I think a couple trips over the main recruiting station to do all those sorts of
[00:25:40] things, get out of the paperwork and line, and then off you go.
[00:25:44] And then I was, and now they have every, all the people that are going to be in some sort
[00:25:47] of naval special warfare.
[00:25:49] Yeah, something.
[00:25:50] It's more square to wear.
[00:25:51] Yeah, they go through like, they go to Chicago, I think, for eight weeks.
[00:25:57] So get ready for bugs.
[00:25:58] Yep.
[00:25:59] So you shut up to bugs.
[00:26:00] Were you ready for bugs?
[00:26:01] As always, this ready is one could possibly be.
[00:26:04] With all that training and all that thought.
[00:26:06] And then I knew, hey, there's no way I'm quitting.
[00:26:07] It's all my friends growing up knew that I wanted to do this until it's seven.
[00:26:11] And so there's no way I'm quit him and die.
[00:26:13] I can't go home and tell him I didn't make it.
[00:26:15] You know what's weird is people do that right there, and they still quit.
[00:26:18] Yeah, which boggles my mind.
[00:26:20] I, the, the, the quitting thing is hard for me to comprehend.
[00:26:26] And when I hear about people doing it, look, people like that, you know, there was a guy
[00:26:30] that killed himself recently.
[00:26:31] And he was that guy.
[00:26:33] And he had told everyone I'm going to be a seal and he had trained for it and he prepared
[00:26:37] for it and he looked like a stud.
[00:26:39] He looked like a beast of a kid.
[00:26:41] And he played lacrosse and he was varsity this and captain of that.
[00:26:45] I mean, and then he got two bugs and for whatever reason, he quit and then he, and then
[00:26:51] he killed himself.
[00:26:53] And you just think, man, like, whatever they're telling you in bugs, you don't quit.
[00:27:00] He said, you know, just don't quit.
[00:27:03] It's pretty easy.
[00:27:04] Yeah, just do not quit.
[00:27:06] And I know they play psychological games on people of saying, you know, let's say, you
[00:27:11] don't belong here and all this kind of stuff.
[00:27:13] I don't even remember if they said that to me, I didn't care what they said to me.
[00:27:16] It wasn't even, kind of, trading, anything in my brain.
[00:27:20] But you know, that's what they do.
[00:27:21] They'll say, oh, you don't belong here.
[00:27:22] We don't want you on the team.
[00:27:24] And somebody that's sensitive to that, it can get through to share and make them start believing
[00:27:30] that the instructors actually, the instructors are going to leave.
[00:27:33] We even go order a pizza.
[00:27:34] They're not actually thinking about that, you know?
[00:27:36] But they take some get and they quit.
[00:27:38] And you know what?
[00:27:39] Good.
[00:27:40] Like you said, like, good.
[00:27:41] If someone has that, if someone is going to quit, please quit during bugs.
[00:27:45] Yeah, for sure.
[00:27:46] Did you guys watch a full-metal jacket?
[00:27:48] I mean, all these movies that they show, join instructors on what it's like.
[00:27:52] And it's like a game.
[00:27:53] Yeah, you're going to be a game.
[00:27:54] Did you have any trouble with anything about bugs?
[00:27:57] So I swam before I got there and I'd wake up super early and meet the Master Swim
[00:28:02] program at five in the morning because I knew swimming was my weak point.
[00:28:06] I mean, I swam.
[00:28:07] I don't know problem with swimming, but I wasn't a competitive swimmer.
[00:28:10] You were so much more prepared for bugs than me.
[00:28:13] I'm just like, even the fact that you analyzed like what your strengths and weaknesses were,
[00:28:18] I was just, I was just like, another way to go.
[00:28:22] Yeah.
[00:28:23] I worked out.
[00:28:24] Yeah.
[00:28:25] That was young too, which is beneficial.
[00:28:26] You know, it's beneficial just to be young because you're just going to adapt.
[00:28:29] Right.
[00:28:30] I mean, your brain isn't even completely developed.
[00:28:31] Right.
[00:28:32] So you're what 24.
[00:28:33] More than like that.
[00:28:34] So I know 18, 19 years old.
[00:28:35] I was just full adaptation to whatever they're doing.
[00:28:39] And it's what you have to do in life in general.
[00:28:41] But I distinctly remember going to the pool.
[00:28:45] So I'm reattimagled at this point.
[00:28:47] And I'm going to the pool now.
[00:28:49] And it's outdoors.
[00:28:50] And it's frost.
[00:28:51] This is frost.
[00:28:52] Pretty buzz.
[00:28:53] Yeah.
[00:28:54] So there's like not snow, but that frost.
[00:28:55] Lair of frost on the pool decks.
[00:28:56] Once you got in, it was actually kind of warm.
[00:28:57] But you shoved the walk across that pool deck and jump in with these people that are way
[00:29:01] older, but way faster.
[00:29:03] I was definitely the slowest person in this master's swim program with these people
[00:29:06] and swim competitively and how they're 40 and which is old.
[00:29:09] Yeah.
[00:29:10] And I'm 42 years old.
[00:29:11] There's those person who were receiving your life.
[00:29:12] And there's swim in it five in the morning.
[00:29:15] But so I did that.
[00:29:16] So I was prepared for the water.
[00:29:19] And I grew up in the water essentially.
[00:29:20] Scooplet and Scooplet having an age nine.
[00:29:22] It was comfortable in the water.
[00:29:23] We helped out.
[00:29:24] One to again, you are so much more prepared.
[00:29:26] I was like, you know, well, I mean, I was, I could swim.
[00:29:30] And I surfed as a kid and that helped.
[00:29:32] But I definitely wasn't Scooplet diving.
[00:29:33] Yeah, I was diving for Abeloni up north.
[00:29:37] So that's been with all this kind of thing.
[00:29:38] I don't know if I do that now.
[00:29:39] It's like a great, white, and breeding ground up there.
[00:29:41] But Abeloni was amazing.
[00:29:42] I love that we camp out up there and just have a great time.
[00:29:45] But even though I prepared like that, the swims were hard.
[00:29:48] And that first swim, because it's that under water recovery stroke in 1996, they didn't
[00:29:52] teach you.
[00:29:53] Now they teach you how to do this thing.
[00:29:54] Now they get in the water.
[00:29:55] Here's your little basics.
[00:29:56] Here's how you do it.
[00:29:57] Bring your head up.
[00:29:58] Whatever.
[00:29:59] Focus.
[00:30:00] This.
[00:30:01] Now the book is talked about this.
[00:30:01] Let me try to do it.
[00:30:02] We can get this.
[00:30:03] And it was not in the master swim program.
[00:30:06] And I was third to last.
[00:30:08] I remember getting out of that first swim where they pair everybody up and whatever they
[00:30:11] call it, the two weeks before you class up, whatever that thing is called.
[00:30:14] And I was like, man, third to land.
[00:30:16] I can stagger out of the water.
[00:30:17] Like I put out onto this thing.
[00:30:19] And I'm like, wow, what's, and I went, they put everything up with this really slow guy.
[00:30:24] And I think he quit right away.
[00:30:25] So then they pair and put it up with somebody else who was faster.
[00:30:28] So I'm barely making the swims in first phase.
[00:30:32] And then one of the guys in my class was a water polo player from USC or something like
[00:30:36] that.
[00:30:37] And he's like, hey, what we have to teach you how to do this stroke.
[00:30:40] But yeah, it'd be great.
[00:30:41] And so we went out behind the barracks thing and went out in the in the ocean.
[00:30:45] And he just showed me how to do it.
[00:30:46] And I went from being third to last to the next swim.
[00:30:49] I was third.
[00:30:50] There you go.
[00:30:51] That was awesome.
[00:30:52] And I was never third again.
[00:30:53] I was like fifth or sixth.
[00:30:54] But when we go in third to last, I distinctly remember to then come out third after
[00:30:57] learning the stroke.
[00:30:58] So I got this.
[00:30:59] It's different to swim with fins too.
[00:31:01] And the way they teach you to do it is a little bit different.
[00:31:04] Whatever.
[00:31:05] But now they prepare.
[00:31:06] Now you're preparing.
[00:31:07] You're going in physically.
[00:31:08] That eight weeks they spend in Chicago.
[00:31:10] They learn the strokes.
[00:31:11] They learn how to lift the logs and not hurt themselves and how to use the boat.
[00:31:16] There's instructions on how to lift the logs.
[00:31:17] Pretty sure.
[00:31:18] Oh, wow.
[00:31:19] How to climb the ropes.
[00:31:20] Mental toughness classes.
[00:31:22] All that stuff.
[00:31:23] Because they went.
[00:31:24] But you know what happened?
[00:31:25] Of course.
[00:31:26] They were expecting a lot more shields to come through now because they needed more in
[00:31:29] 2003, five, four, five, six.
[00:31:31] We need more seals.
[00:31:32] So let's do this program.
[00:31:33] And now we just got the Fitter Quitters.
[00:31:35] So same essentially.
[00:31:36] Yeah, that's the crazy thing.
[00:31:37] Yeah.
[00:31:38] The crazy thing is the attrition rate doesn't change.
[00:31:40] Exactly.
[00:31:41] Fitter Quitters.
[00:31:42] Fitter Quitters.
[00:31:43] I like that.
[00:31:44] Because it doesn't matter how many poles you can do.
[00:31:45] I mean, it does matter.
[00:31:48] And people say mental or physical.
[00:31:49] It's definitely both.
[00:31:50] If you can't climb a rope, you're not making it through.
[00:31:52] It does matter how bad you go.
[00:31:54] I love it.
[00:31:55] If you've been put in the work, you're not going to be able to climb a rope.
[00:31:57] But yeah, you can get some Fitter Quitters.
[00:31:59] Exactly.
[00:32:00] Exactly.
[00:32:01] Any average high school athlete physically can make it through.
[00:32:04] Totally agree.
[00:32:05] It's the obviously the mental part there that comes in.
[00:32:08] And you get guys that are an amazing shape.
[00:32:10] Guys that were Olympic athletes or whatever it is.
[00:32:13] They quit right away.
[00:32:14] And I think a lot of that.
[00:32:15] Like the guy that killed himself maybe maybe hadn't faced adversity in the ways that
[00:32:20] you need to figure out how to actually overcome it and how to get knocked down and get
[00:32:24] moving forward.
[00:32:26] And you're going to get hurt.
[00:32:27] You're going to play hurt.
[00:32:29] And a lot of these guys are used to that.
[00:32:30] They're used to being treated in a way.
[00:32:32] If they're hurt, they have someone's right there.
[00:32:34] Yeah.
[00:32:35] They're making sure that they're okay.
[00:32:36] And they're going to rehab and all that stuff.
[00:32:38] It's not like Lamborghini's.
[00:32:40] They're going to the shop a lot.
[00:32:42] There's no one that really crushes bugs.
[00:32:45] I don't think that's just like, oh, yeah, everything was easy.
[00:32:48] Because there would be some really good athletes.
[00:32:49] And I did have some stud athletes in my honor man was a guy named Keith Camira who
[00:32:54] was just a beast.
[00:32:56] He just fast at everything and strong.
[00:32:59] He was just a beast.
[00:33:00] And so I would say, I guess there are a few guys that crush bugs.
[00:33:03] But most people, they're going to have some, they're going to pick apart some weak points
[00:33:07] in you.
[00:33:08] Yep.
[00:33:09] And that's what you want.
[00:33:10] I want to be tested.
[00:33:11] That was the whole, that was one of the main draws.
[00:33:12] Did you make it through first time every time?
[00:33:14] No, so I had after hell week, my fist lays weren't working.
[00:33:17] Whatever stress fractures, whatever it was.
[00:33:20] So they yanked me off the next swim because I was just, I don't know, sinking probably.
[00:33:24] And said, you're going to medical.
[00:33:25] I'm pushing.
[00:33:26] No, I'm not going to medical.
[00:33:27] It's like a clean.
[00:33:28] It's like a clean.
[00:33:29] It's like a clean.
[00:33:30] It was not a clean.
[00:33:31] Exactly.
[00:33:32] I mean, they remember them pulling me out on the boat.
[00:33:34] They're going to medical now.
[00:33:35] I was like, dang it.
[00:33:37] So I went in there.
[00:33:38] But it worked for me.
[00:33:39] Whatever they did.
[00:33:40] Like some people stood there at that time.
[00:33:41] Like you could have a guy there for like a year, just kind of hiding out.
[00:33:43] But for me, it worked.
[00:33:44] It just makes me a little rest.
[00:33:46] And then, fast up with the next class.
[00:33:47] The next class.
[00:33:48] Yeah.
[00:33:49] What was your attitude when you got rolled?
[00:33:53] Was it like the end of your life?
[00:33:54] Free like, oh my god.
[00:33:55] Or are you like, okay, cool.
[00:33:56] I mean, because I guess there's so many people get rolled back.
[00:33:59] Yeah.
[00:34:00] Yeah.
[00:34:01] I was a little bummed because I was friends with all these guys.
[00:34:03] They were going on a dive phase and you're like, you're watching them, going to
[00:34:06] dive phase.
[00:34:07] And you're like, but then a lot of them get rolled back for pull-com.
[00:34:09] And then you got half your class back again.
[00:34:11] So that was great.
[00:34:12] And pull-com was my favorite.
[00:34:14] Like that.
[00:34:15] And drown proofing because that's the only time you get to get physical with an instructor.
[00:34:19] The other time, like you're just there, you're getting yelled at.
[00:34:22] You're being told your word was whatever.
[00:34:24] But this is the time where it's mono-emono.
[00:34:26] It's like you against them.
[00:34:28] And you know, it's a little bit physical.
[00:34:29] So I love pull-com.
[00:34:30] Past first time, I was comfortable in the water.
[00:34:33] But then the drown proofing also, that's what you really get in physical.
[00:34:35] They have the different types of bodies that you have to say.
[00:34:38] You mean life-saving.
[00:34:39] Life-saving.
[00:34:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:41] That's true.
[00:34:42] So they have the guy to get on there.
[00:34:43] You know, just like dead weight.
[00:34:44] And then they went, that's fighting you.
[00:34:45] And that's the one I liked.
[00:34:46] That was awesome.
[00:34:47] And they dragged you to the bottom.
[00:34:48] And I just feel like, and this is probably the martial arts stuff.
[00:34:50] It's just relax, because he's working.
[00:34:52] He's working to keep me down there at the bottom.
[00:34:54] And then when he comes up for air, then I just go a little more.
[00:34:56] And then he'd get his air, and he dragged me back down.
[00:34:59] But it was like us together.
[00:35:00] Like, I love that part.
[00:35:02] That's my favorite part of my life.
[00:35:03] No one I figured out.
[00:35:04] I figured out what the choke-hold, right?
[00:35:07] I figured out, like, okay, this is a choke.
[00:35:09] Like a rear-naked choke that I can use.
[00:35:11] And the recovery is you, I think you put your arm over.
[00:35:15] Like, almost the same, but you grab them, like, by the lat on the other side.
[00:35:18] And I just realized, oh, if I just put it on over here, it's going to choke.
[00:35:20] This dude is going to make him get under control.
[00:35:23] And then, but I can go back to the position.
[00:35:25] But yeah, I had a good time with that.
[00:35:26] I failed pull-com because the former UDT guy from NOM who ended up working for me at Trade-at.
[00:35:39] And one day I asked him, I said, you remember failing me in pull-com?
[00:35:43] Because, oh, yeah.
[00:35:44] I was just messing with you.
[00:35:45] I was like, oh, cool.
[00:35:46] Thanks.
[00:35:47] Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:35:48] Appreciate it.
[00:35:49] And then I passed the next time.
[00:35:50] But yeah.
[00:35:51] Yeah.
[00:35:52] Those water I was pretty comfortable in from surfing growing up.
[00:35:55] But for me, everything, I had to work hard.
[00:35:58] I had to run hard all that stuff.
[00:36:00] Oh, yeah.
[00:36:01] That's the whole thing.
[00:36:02] That's what it's all about.
[00:36:03] So you get done with Buds and where'd you get it going?
[00:36:05] Going team five.
[00:36:06] And back then, you're like, oh, it's going to happen.
[00:36:09] Oh, North Korea is going to happen.
[00:36:11] Yeah.
[00:36:12] So I've got to give you a reading stuff in the earth.
[00:36:13] And still going to happen through the news.
[00:36:15] So I went to team five, that was my first choice.
[00:36:19] And it's just because of that.
[00:36:21] So now it's 1997.
[00:36:23] Yeah.
[00:36:24] Yeah.
[00:36:25] Yeah.
[00:36:26] So I was still on the west coast at this time.
[00:36:29] I was over at Team One.
[00:36:30] Yep.
[00:36:31] And I was I was in training.
[00:36:32] So probably got that was right around when I got picked up for a commissioning program.
[00:36:36] So I'm just trying to think time frame like all the guys that I know from Team
[00:36:39] Five were all there.
[00:36:40] Yeah.
[00:36:41] Well, it's cool 90s.
[00:36:42] Welcome in you aboard.
[00:36:43] Oh, yeah.
[00:36:44] Very great.
[00:36:45] Very gentle.
[00:36:46] Love it.
[00:36:47] And I loved it.
[00:36:48] We'd get there, of course, and get issued a pager.
[00:36:50] And then they'd give us all this awesome gear.
[00:36:52] And we'd be at the bar drinking.
[00:36:54] And I'll send that go off in the movies.
[00:36:55] And we'd fly off.
[00:36:56] And save the princess and get back in time for a beer's the next night.
[00:37:00] Yeah.
[00:37:01] And then I get there and it's like, hey, you guys clean that toilet.
[00:37:04] And paint that wall.
[00:37:05] Change those light bulbs.
[00:37:07] And I was like, Roger that.
[00:37:08] Let's do it.
[00:37:09] I'm going to be the best light bulb we've changed.
[00:37:11] And that you've got here.
[00:37:13] So that was a little different.
[00:37:14] Little.
[00:37:15] Did you go through SQT at Group One?
[00:37:17] Did you go through it?
[00:37:18] Second time.
[00:37:19] Yeah, it was the second class at Group One.
[00:37:21] OK.
[00:37:22] And yeah, so went through that one.
[00:37:24] And it was good.
[00:37:25] It was professionalizing it, standardizing things.
[00:37:27] Obviously it's more professional now.
[00:37:29] But yeah, it was great time.
[00:37:30] Love that.
[00:37:31] Had a blast.
[00:37:32] And as you rolled into, if there was your position in your first turn, what
[00:37:35] do you do?
[00:37:36] I was the assistant calm guy.
[00:37:39] So for whatever reason they're like, college, you're going to calm school.
[00:37:42] Oh, yeah.
[00:37:43] I want to be the point man.
[00:37:44] Exactly.
[00:37:45] You must be smart.
[00:37:46] I want to be a point man.
[00:37:47] Yeah, of course.
[00:37:48] Yeah, read those books.
[00:37:49] Right point man.
[00:37:50] Of course.
[00:37:51] What patches Watson.
[00:37:52] And that's what you want to do.
[00:37:53] Washington, all those movies.
[00:37:54] So when they told me how to be at calm guys, like, dang it.
[00:37:55] You know, that's the guy that, well, wanted to get shot first and all the Vietnamese
[00:37:58] right next to the old Asian McKinney.
[00:37:59] He's got the thing.
[00:38:00] Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:01] Yeah, yeah.
[00:38:02] They had 10 that sticking up in the jungle and over the grass.
[00:38:04] And that's what they.
[00:38:05] So anyway, but I did that.
[00:38:06] It was actually a great experience being a calm guy because you're part of the planning
[00:38:09] process.
[00:38:10] And then you're learning the radio.
[00:38:12] Yeah, it was great.
[00:38:13] So it's going through that calm course and then bringing back the newest, when I really
[00:38:17] was radio, it was techniques, whatever it is, to the pool tune.
[00:38:20] So even though you have a primary calm guy, you kind of know what's going on after that.
[00:38:25] That's a good course.
[00:38:26] There wasn't any way.
[00:38:27] It was a long course.
[00:38:28] So it's good to be part of the planning process.
[00:38:30] So as for someone that was going to be an officer at some point, I got to experience
[00:38:33] the plan.
[00:38:34] Did you even have that in your brain?
[00:38:35] I knew it was an option.
[00:38:36] It was an option.
[00:38:37] So it was either that or the other East Coast seal team.
[00:38:40] Yeah.
[00:38:41] And I wanted to do both of those.
[00:38:43] I thought, but I figured out, let's give this a, let's check it out.
[00:38:47] I'm brand new, figure this out and see if I'm going to be an officer one day or go to another
[00:38:51] seal team or move on and go to the central intelligence agency like all the people
[00:38:55] that read about and then watch the movies.
[00:38:59] So and there's nothing going on.
[00:39:00] Right?
[00:39:01] There's nothing going on.
[00:39:02] Yeah, it's nice.
[00:39:03] Yeah, exactly.
[00:39:04] And nothing happened.
[00:39:05] And some ship boarding, like one put to into a ship boarding.
[00:39:08] Was it your put to?
[00:39:09] No.
[00:39:10] No.
[00:39:11] Because I did.
[00:39:12] I did a rat for September 11.
[00:39:13] This is before that.
[00:39:14] Yeah.
[00:39:15] Yeah.
[00:39:16] Yeah.
[00:39:17] Yeah.
[00:39:18] September 11th.
[00:39:19] Doing ship boarding.
[00:39:20] It's like, you know, I was walking around like I was damn him.
[00:39:23] You know, the like, whoever I was walking from like I was, you know, all the
[00:39:28] things.
[00:39:29] Yeah.
[00:39:30] So we had big combat experience like no, you're a loser.
[00:39:33] But back then, that's what you wanted to be doing.
[00:39:35] No.
[00:39:36] And to be quite frank, we weren't walking around.
[00:39:37] But we were, I've been out completely stoked that we got to do something real.
[00:39:40] But I got to lock in the load by gun.
[00:39:41] That was cool.
[00:39:42] And it was good.
[00:39:43] It was, you know, good enough.
[00:39:45] Because most guys didn't get do that.
[00:39:47] Most time you know, many guys were just going to implement.
[00:39:50] And they would train other, you know, foreign militaries on how to do stuff.
[00:39:54] And that's cool build relationships with other countries.
[00:39:57] Cool.
[00:39:58] All that do some big exercises.
[00:39:59] Cool.
[00:40:00] But to actually lock in the load you're weapon and get you have a real load out was pretty
[00:40:04] was like a big step back down.
[00:40:07] And it felt great for me.
[00:40:10] But this was, so this is 97.
[00:40:12] And where'd you go on the planet?
[00:40:13] So that was a fake om.
[00:40:14] So is it just, was it ship order?
[00:40:17] No, no, no, no.
[00:40:18] It was all the things you just talked about.
[00:40:20] Yeah, so you just train in South Korea.
[00:40:22] Different countries, travel, Australia, wherever else.
[00:40:25] So just then the normal paycom type thing.
[00:40:27] Well, pre September 11th with much going on.
[00:40:30] And then you come back from that deployment role right into another.
[00:40:32] Because that's what you guys do.
[00:40:33] They become one cruise wonder.
[00:40:35] You get promoted to one cruise wonder.
[00:40:36] Oh, yeah.
[00:40:37] Where are you the primary comms guy?
[00:40:38] Did you skate out of comms?
[00:40:39] Oh, no, how did you get any good schools in between?
[00:40:41] Yeah, which you get?
[00:40:42] Free fall sniper.
[00:40:43] Oh, yeah.
[00:40:44] Yeah, so trouble trouble.
[00:40:46] Yeah, so sniper is what I want.
[00:40:47] So you must have been squared away.
[00:40:48] Because they don't just give those schools away.
[00:40:50] I mean, I don't know.
[00:40:51] Yeah, it's my chief.
[00:40:51] But yeah, I did.
[00:40:53] I checked with them.
[00:40:55] He was a crazy man, that guy.
[00:40:57] But yeah, so right to sniper school, which is what I wanted.
[00:41:00] Which I always wanted to do.
[00:41:01] So got there.
[00:41:02] Did 73 days, I guess.
[00:41:04] And what, Collingo, or you get the Valley fever.
[00:41:07] And stuff going on.
[00:41:08] So I passed.
[00:41:10] So I passed, but I didn't pass stocking.
[00:41:11] Or because I didn't grow up doing that sort of thing.
[00:41:14] So I was shooting.
[00:41:15] You know, that was good.
[00:41:16] I grew up shooting.
[00:41:18] So I didn't know problems there.
[00:41:20] Then the stocking was a shock to me.
[00:41:22] I didn't really understand what was going on.
[00:41:24] I was crawling.
[00:41:25] People.
[00:41:26] I was crawling for 1,000 visitors.
[00:41:27] You know, out to do this.
[00:41:28] And you can just walk for most of that.
[00:41:30] You know, I didn't know that at the time.
[00:41:31] You know, those are what they didn't know.
[00:41:32] We were doing.
[00:41:33] We were just crawling in Nyland in the summer.
[00:41:36] Yeah.
[00:41:37] And then they did it again.
[00:41:38] And then knocked it out.
[00:41:39] Yeah, we just said Jason Gardner on the same thing.
[00:41:42] You know, he, he said, yeah, I'm a shot fine.
[00:41:45] But failed stocking.
[00:41:46] Hell no kidding.
[00:41:47] And then he came back on again and was talking about, well, he talked about some
[00:41:50] of the mistakes he made.
[00:41:51] And it was very similar to what you said.
[00:41:53] But they would tell him like, hey, figure out where you're trying to get to and actually
[00:41:57] analyze the situation before you start moving.
[00:41:59] And of course, when he was younger, he was just, oh, I'm just going to go.
[00:42:03] Yeah.
[00:42:04] And so he went.
[00:42:05] And he would make it in time where people would see him.
[00:42:06] So yeah, that stocking thing is no joke.
[00:42:08] But the second time was complete.
[00:42:10] I think I just relaxed.
[00:42:11] Did you go, did you go through it the second time when you go back for stocking?
[00:42:17] Right.
[00:42:18] Before I think we deployed, yeah, right before we deployed.
[00:42:20] Yeah, right before we deployed.
[00:42:21] But they're in that same work.
[00:42:22] Yeah.
[00:42:23] Okay.
[00:42:24] That's cool.
[00:42:25] That's awesome.
[00:42:26] Yeah.
[00:42:27] So right back.
[00:42:28] But yeah, I think I just relaxed.
[00:42:29] And I got there knocked them all out.
[00:42:30] Oh, you have points for people who don't know.
[00:42:31] Yeah.
[00:42:32] We build up points as you stock or whatever.
[00:42:32] So the last, I think, couple stocks.
[00:42:33] I'd already had on my points.
[00:42:34] So I'm trying to help other guys.
[00:42:36] Cool.
[00:42:37] You know, I've looking back.
[00:42:38] I'm like, should I really help these people?
[00:42:39] Oh, sure.
[00:42:40] They have, you know, should I've gone back to my field?
[00:42:41] My buds thing.
[00:42:42] Like, but you're different.
[00:42:44] What's different to help them, like, by trying to distract the instructors or by finding
[00:42:49] that that OP, you have to crawl in with an a certain distance.
[00:42:53] Yeah.
[00:42:54] And then let them know, hey, you know, you're too far, you're too close.
[00:42:57] Risking.
[00:42:58] Yeah.
[00:42:59] Like, there it is.
[00:43:00] So he didn't have to risk it.
[00:43:01] Oh, I did.
[00:43:02] That sort of thing.
[00:43:03] So should I have done that?
[00:43:04] Maybe not.
[00:43:05] But anyway, but it gave me good practice too, because I got to push the limits then,
[00:43:09] which gave me a lot of confidence in what I was going to do later.
[00:43:12] That's pretty awesome.
[00:43:13] And then I paid for myself to go to some urban sniper, of course, at Pendleton.
[00:43:18] Some, you know, one of these kind of fly by night operations that was going on back then
[00:43:23] to teach people how to do whatever.
[00:43:24] So I went to an urban sniper course that I paid for because I was curious.
[00:43:27] I didn't do that at the time.
[00:43:29] It was an average school.
[00:43:30] So I got to learn about urban hides and all that sort of thing, which was pretty cool.
[00:43:33] Sweet, who's wrong?
[00:43:34] I forget the name of it.
[00:43:35] I think it had like, but like, who did that?
[00:43:36] Or were they former, I think former Marine snipers, I think.
[00:43:39] That were how well-fused it, Pendleton, I guess, probably was.
[00:43:41] Some connections there or something.
[00:43:42] Exactly.
[00:43:43] Exactly.
[00:43:44] So, and then freefall, too, and freefall, was a crazy one, because that was, I came back to the
[00:43:51] team one day and I didn't get freefall right away at it's sniper school.
[00:43:54] And then you should kind of like one of the other for a new guy coming back.
[00:43:59] So my friends went and I came back from, and this was the first time that they'd done
[00:44:04] the civilian deal with it, they were training.
[00:44:08] Oh, okay.
[00:44:09] But to wherever that was.
[00:44:11] So, came back from lunch, it was like your back, and you're kind of, you have
[00:44:13] be able to go to schools, and it's, you know, so the people that they can leave or whatever
[00:44:16] got married.
[00:44:18] And so I came back and I see Andy Stomph, who you know, and he's got this look on his face.
[00:44:23] And I'm like, oh, that's weird.
[00:44:25] I parked my truck, and there's no gate guard at the time.
[00:44:28] He's drive on the base, remember that?
[00:44:30] And he told us, I don't know, our dear friends had burned in and died.
[00:44:34] Three fall, like in that first week.
[00:44:36] And then of course, what does the team do?
[00:44:39] After I night, yeah, I go to the family, we're dear friends, and do the whole, all that stuff.
[00:44:43] His first experience with that.
[00:44:45] And so as a team do, oh, you're going to free fall.
[00:44:48] Yeah.
[00:44:49] Like a week later after the funeral, like, paying, okay, let's do it.
[00:44:53] So yeah, what did the UMA not the civilian one, but went to UMA, stopped at Bragg
[00:44:57] first for the, for the air tunnel, if they, they did back then the wind tunnel.
[00:45:01] Oh, that's cool.
[00:45:02] And then, uh, an on the UMA.
[00:45:03] So did those before my, uh, my second upal tune.
[00:45:06] And then you go on your second, you go on your second deployment.
[00:45:09] Yep.
[00:45:10] Yeah, I went to do go on deployment.
[00:45:11] So a couple of weeks before September 11th.
[00:45:12] Oh, yep.
[00:45:13] So, uh, Guam, expecting a, uh, I don't like the first one.
[00:45:17] Just they were going to go train some people, finally get to go to Thailand.
[00:45:21] And yeah, two weeks into it, September 11th happen.
[00:45:24] People start banging on doors up and down.
[00:45:26] The barracks and we'd have TVs in our room.
[00:45:28] Then, so, uh, you know, phones are ringing, because it's midnight, I guess, in Guam.
[00:45:32] And, uh, you know, nine am on the east coast.
[00:45:34] And we all get up and go down to the basement of the barracks in Guam where we had one
[00:45:38] TV.
[00:45:39] And we all watched the, the Twin Towers, fallen TV.
[00:45:41] And I was the Intel guy too.
[00:45:42] So I was comms and Intel.
[00:45:44] Uh-huh.
[00:45:45] And so I've been reading, I just, you know, read, uh, what have been Laden book was,
[00:45:48] but that were previous year, the man who declared war in America.
[00:45:51] I think it was cool.
[00:45:52] And so I was doing, I was always reading this stuff.
[00:45:54] I was always fascinated by it.
[00:45:55] I was always reading about terrorism, insurgencies, and we're going to make myself the best
[00:45:58] to see it like it possibly be.
[00:45:59] So I knew it all kind of meant.
[00:46:00] And I knew it meant the base.
[00:46:02] And so I gave a brief right away.
[00:46:04] And nobody knew the number of the seal of Guam at no idea who all kind of was.
[00:46:09] And so I gave my brief and, you know, if he's up and studied it ever since.
[00:46:13] But, um, that was, we thought we'd be on plans the next day.
[00:46:16] That's the song.
[00:46:17] Let's go.
[00:46:18] We start palatizing, getting ready, uh, but really took a couple weeks.
[00:46:21] And then, then off we went.
[00:46:22] And that's when I did the ship boardings, um, because we took over a 14-3, who went into
[00:46:26] Afghanistan and we ended up taking their ship boarding mission, which actually looking back,
[00:46:30] was a good one because that's my only ship boarding experience.
[00:46:33] And it was interesting because it's like a cop pulling over, pulling over someone in the
[00:46:37] middle of the night.
[00:46:38] You don't know what you're walking up on.
[00:46:39] You have no idea.
[00:46:40] Instead of a car, when a cop, this is a, uh, a class three tanker that's heading for
[00:46:44] Iranian waters and you have a certain amount of time to get on there, it turned it around.
[00:46:47] And, you know, it was an E5.
[00:46:49] I'm turning around to class three tankers using my GPS and a compass, you know, turning this
[00:46:53] thing around.
[00:46:54] It was so, it was pretty cool.
[00:46:55] Do it.
[00:46:56] And there's some good coordination that has to happen on those.
[00:47:00] So it's as a calm guy, you're, you're working a bunch of different networks and, yeah,
[00:47:05] then you're, you, did you end up, yeah, well, you just said it.
[00:47:07] You end up a lot of times being the person that knows how to work GPS because you're
[00:47:10] the calm guy, at least it used to be that way.
[00:47:12] Now everybody has all they know.
[00:47:13] Now everybody knows how to do it, put yeah.
[00:47:15] Actually, the map and compass, that's why I went, I later on, jumping ahead, I had
[00:47:18] to relearn map and compass.
[00:47:19] Like I had so dependent on GPS and there was a book, I think it's called, uh, be expert
[00:47:23] with map and compass.
[00:47:24] So when I took over the junior officer training course, before I got out, um, we had a really
[00:47:28] good, uh, not course that we did.
[00:47:32] And that's why we taught myself.
[00:47:33] Yeah, that's why we taught myself.
[00:47:34] The map and compass, like so, so I was a calm guy.
[00:47:36] And when we first started getting issued, this was in like 92, we first started getting
[00:47:41] issued the big GPS.
[00:47:42] So they were, they were like the size of a, and they were big.
[00:47:45] They were like the size of two shoe boxes.
[00:47:47] And remember, they were big.
[00:47:49] The PSN8 with this big giant antenna that was like the size of my water bottle.
[00:47:54] But, but what was interesting is they say, okay, Jaco, you know, you gotta figure out how
[00:47:58] to work this thing.
[00:47:59] So I figured out how to work it.
[00:48:00] And then I said, well, all it does is tells us where we are.
[00:48:03] And they're like, yeah, and I said, if we have a map and compass, we're good.
[00:48:07] Like I know where we are on a map and compass for sure.
[00:48:10] I'm like, I know.
[00:48:11] I'll let see it's different.
[00:48:12] You know, you want to get over the horizon.
[00:48:14] But anyway, so it was kind of always surprising to me that it's so much easier.
[00:48:18] If you do a good terrain study, you can just walk and you can look at your compass occasionally.
[00:48:23] And you know where you are.
[00:48:25] Rather than constantly looking at a GPS and getting your night vision trashed from that
[00:48:29] or whatever, it just was a different transition.
[00:48:32] I mean, and then obviously, GPS has became so good that, yeah, I mean, they're pretty awesome.
[00:48:37] Everyone has long their watch.
[00:48:38] Yeah, they're pretty awesome now.
[00:48:39] But I did like the map and cup of stuff because I grew up doing it in the Sierra,
[00:48:43] I grew up back back in and doing that.
[00:48:45] But before I came after I called, I went to Alaska for three months and back back around
[00:48:49] up there to the National Latter Leadership School up there.
[00:48:52] Once again, training.
[00:48:53] Getting ready.
[00:48:56] You were so ready, fellas.
[00:48:57] I went to high school.
[00:48:58] That's what I did.
[00:48:59] Yeah.
[00:49:00] But that just goes, it doesn't matter.
[00:49:01] You know, it's all the metal part, doesn't matter.
[00:49:03] How much you prepare, how little you prepare.
[00:49:04] It's all if you want it.
[00:49:05] If you're average athlete and you want this thing, hey, just don't quit.
[00:49:08] You'll learn along the way.
[00:49:09] You'll get in better shape when you start running that sand.
[00:49:12] Just don't quit.
[00:49:13] That's it.
[00:49:14] We'll get you a good running tip.
[00:49:15] So at what point did you put in for an officer package?
[00:49:19] So that's spring before the September 11th of the moment.
[00:49:23] It was we had a let's say a chief that was interesting.
[00:49:28] Leadership team I'd say that was interesting.
[00:49:31] And you know, the E5 Mafia was not happy.
[00:49:34] They were, and it was, there's one of those things like, hey, I can complain about it.
[00:49:38] Like everybody else, or I can put it in this package and go and do it better than it was done for me.
[00:49:43] So that's what I did.
[00:49:45] And you got picked up first time?
[00:49:47] Oh, you already had a college degree in on that.
[00:49:49] Yeah, so put in didn't put out my number there's I won't say who he is because I think he's an admiral now, but he was an exo at the time.
[00:49:56] And he went for my interview and there's a Friday afternoon.
[00:49:58] So Friday afternoon team five workout included a gig.
[00:50:01] And so, you know, I didn't, I did the workout, but then I changed into my whites.
[00:50:05] So now I mean my whites in the spring and those things are horrible.
[00:50:08] I hate those uniforms, but so I mean my whites get in them all perfect.
[00:50:11] And I go in to do my interview with the exo at the time.
[00:50:15] And I don't know now. And he's got a beer in front of him and his PT stuff.
[00:50:19] He's like, I just want you to know how this is going to go and if it's any indication that this beer should be an indication of how this interview is going to go.
[00:50:25] And I was like, I love it. I was still, you know, don't know.
[00:50:27] Yeah, of course.
[00:50:28] So it's very very, you know, the whole thing.
[00:50:30] But yeah, of course, I did, I did at a good first couple of tunes as a new guy.
[00:50:34] I would know what we're going on.
[00:50:36] And so I got picked up the first time.
[00:50:38] And then you went to OCS.
[00:50:39] Oh, yeah, after I got back.
[00:50:40] So, but of course, the temperal event happens and I'm like, dang it.
[00:50:43] I'm going to be around choice.
[00:50:45] Because I, if what you want to be is you want to be an listed guy.
[00:50:49] You know, going to be in the fight for a while first anyway.
[00:50:52] Yeah.
[00:50:52] So, but it ended up working out well because I got right back from that deployment.
[00:50:56] Did, well, I did it a little training trip to a place and that was a great experience.
[00:51:00] And then, it's classed up for OCS at in Pensacola,
[00:51:04] Pensacola and to the same things.
[00:51:06] Yeah, I did that too.
[00:51:08] It's awful to do the same things we didn't book and have full of the underwear, full of t-shirts, making our bed.
[00:51:13] You know, all those things that somehow qualify you to lead me in combat.
[00:51:16] And then right to the seal teams, right back to seal teams and ended up at a great team that's kind of right.
[00:51:22] Well, so you know, I just come back from another East Coast seal team.
[00:51:25] He spent almost a year deployed after September 11th and brought his lessons learned back.
[00:51:29] And then he sent me to that team and right down range.
[00:51:32] So, as a brand new officer, I was down range fairly quickly.
[00:51:36] Timing wise, it worked out well for me.
[00:51:38] That's beautiful.
[00:51:40] Yeah, I got learned at, learned a ton on that deployment and then brought that back to my team and then deployed again right right away to Iraq.
[00:51:46] So I got to get it.
[00:51:47] Then you deployed as an assistant to the computer.
[00:51:49] I was like a third one, a third one.
[00:51:51] A third one.
[00:51:52] A third one.
[00:51:53] Yep, third one.
[00:51:54] So you ended up doing a lot of the admin stuff and I used to load a lot.
[00:51:57] But that's when, was an extra guy, essentially.
[00:52:01] Yeah.
[00:52:02] That's when the job happened.
[00:52:03] So that's when I had probably the most, the most formative time in uniform was taking a sniper team into the job.
[00:52:08] So it's, you know, pitch combat for, he was a two-week campaign.
[00:52:12] So it was 11 days and it was one of the first times I think that that we really went to the conventional side and said, hey, how can we help?
[00:52:19] Yeah, we're supporting you in this campaign.
[00:52:21] Here's what I'm bringing to the table.
[00:52:22] These snipers, J-Tax, we can control aircraft for you.
[00:52:25] We can pre-plan air.
[00:52:27] And this is, this is what we can offer.
[00:52:29] How can this augment?
[00:52:30] You how can this help?
[00:52:31] And I'm sure this happened before, but that was the first time that that I was involved in something like that.
[00:52:37] And had a great relationship.
[00:52:38] Colonel Rainy was the guy's name he must be a general now or retired.
[00:52:42] Probably retired now.
[00:52:43] But had a great relationship with him.
[00:52:46] And we just got after it for 11 days out there.
[00:52:49] It was great.
[00:52:50] You had a lot of team guys that you out with there.
[00:52:52] It's six, I think.
[00:52:53] And then we had some Polish ground guys.
[00:52:55] And then Marzok dep one because they were part of that deployment.
[00:52:57] With us it was the trial runner.
[00:53:01] Yeah, no, I saw.
[00:53:03] Those guys turned over with me in Baghdad.
[00:53:06] Okay.
[00:53:07] Because when you guys got to Baghdad from your team.
[00:53:10] Yep.
[00:53:11] You went to Mosul.
[00:53:12] Yep.
[00:53:12] And I was down in Baghdad doing a turnover with the Marzok guys.
[00:53:15] Which I knew a bunch of Marzok guys from the old days of doing shipboard deploy.
[00:53:18] And they were bunch of awesome guys.
[00:53:20] Awesome.
[00:53:21] And then yeah, then I went home.
[00:53:23] And then I guess you came down to Baghdad right before I went home.
[00:53:26] Take the PST thing.
[00:53:28] Yeah.
[00:53:29] Yeah.
[00:53:30] And well, that was going on.
[00:53:31] We're standing that thing up.
[00:53:32] And I learned a ton there too because you're like,
[00:53:34] What are we doing?
[00:53:35] We're protecting the Inter Marquee government officials.
[00:53:37] And we're not turning over with anybody because it hasn't been done before.
[00:53:40] And the last guy before allow.
[00:53:41] We just got blown up by an ID.
[00:53:43] Okay.
[00:53:44] Let's do this.
[00:53:45] Let's figure it out.
[00:53:46] And so I mean, we were started with one computer.
[00:53:49] And my CEO from team two.
[00:53:50] And it was, I was at that computer.
[00:53:52] Just like, he'd be talking to me, dictating things and putting together the mission.
[00:53:55] And blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:53:56] And I was just learning and, you know, chiming in where I could write that out.
[00:53:59] So you knew there were PSD got stood up.
[00:54:01] Yeah.
[00:54:02] Yeah.
[00:54:03] One computer and one small office.
[00:54:04] And then it grew into this huge monstrosity.
[00:54:06] I should've actually became.
[00:54:08] But still learned a lot.
[00:54:09] Yeah.
[00:54:10] But that also meant that I was an extra, extra dude as we kind of figured out what was going on.
[00:54:13] And then I got to go up and help out with Marsoc.
[00:54:16] That one because one of those guys had to go back and do something.
[00:54:19] So I got to go up and help them out for a little bit on the intel side of the house for a few weeks.
[00:54:23] And then there was a lot of that.
[00:54:24] That's when they're job kicked off.
[00:54:25] And they're like, we need snipers.
[00:54:26] And so there's grab snipers.
[00:54:27] And the most together.
[00:54:29] Yes.
[00:54:30] Awesome.
[00:54:31] Awesome.
[00:54:32] Yeah.
[00:54:33] But I remember the CO team one.
[00:54:34] So he was attached to that Marsoc thing.
[00:54:36] So I was essentially working for team one at the time.
[00:54:39] And I remember him distinctly calling me in because I was the, I was the old man I was taking
[00:54:43] these guys to do this thing that was kind of ambiguous.
[00:54:45] We're taking over the city as part of a bigger campaign with two, seven cab.
[00:54:51] And he said, hey, whatever you do, whatever this means, I don't really know what it meant.
[00:54:54] I just nodded.
[00:54:55] But he's like, whatever you do, don't go forward.
[00:54:57] A friendly lines.
[00:54:58] And I was like, okay.
[00:54:59] Like Roger that.
[00:55:00] But I didn't mean.
[00:55:01] So hours of being on the ground, we are pushing forward, taking, pushing the enemy back, going
[00:55:06] up, getting high ground and calling in the Bradley's and A rooms and coordinating all that stuff.
[00:55:11] So right away, I'm disobeying his order and getting the job done.
[00:55:16] Because that's what it took.
[00:55:18] But it was incredible to work with those guys and we, and it was a, a hot spot if people wasn't just
[00:55:23] two, seven cab.
[00:55:24] It was Army National Guard units.
[00:55:25] It was air from everywhere.
[00:55:27] All coming together, working together for the first time and making this thing happen and pushing the enemy back towards the Ema Molly Moss, which is one of the whole the sites in all of Islam.
[00:55:35] And that 11th day, we had that place all of them in the Ema Molly Moss.
[00:55:40] So we worked every day, we pushed forward a little bit and then go up, take the high ground, everybody come up.
[00:55:44] We do that.
[00:55:45] Maybe to be there for a day, though the water would come up.
[00:55:47] That Army logistics train, which was moving and then we pushed forward again.
[00:55:51] And it was incredible to be part of that and help out for we could.
[00:55:56] But then, of course, we have where we want them and is a, you know, brand new guys want to vomit.
[00:56:00] I want to drop a bomb on the Ema Molly Moss.
[00:56:03] Looking back, you know, the probably not the right decision that we're not.
[00:56:06] No, no.
[00:56:07] And, but what are the other daughters in the whole tactical call, but not the best decision.
[00:56:12] No, no, no, no, no.
[00:56:14] Well, in hindsight and with what I've studied since, you know, bombing one of the,
[00:56:18] Holy of sites in all of Islam probably was not, but not of an outright move.
[00:56:22] So that was that was denied.
[00:56:24] But if I thought all of a sudden was in there, all of the body militia was in there.
[00:56:28] And then they did some sort of a peace agreement, see the Irish thing or whatever.
[00:56:32] And then we got to watch them all, leave and turn their weapons over to the Iraqi National Guard or somebody.
[00:56:38] And that was the end of that.
[00:56:39] So, and then we dealt with with every percussion for over a while.
[00:56:42] But it was good tactical experience.
[00:56:44] Yeah.
[00:56:45] Because I got to come back and talk about having, you know, sniper weapon systems,
[00:56:48] but also being able to have a red dot on those things to clear the room,
[00:56:51] because we're clearing rooms and then using those same weapon systems to set up and do the job.
[00:56:55] So, got to bring a lot of different ways to make the little put up with become loopholes or whatever.
[00:57:01] And walls and, you know, all that sort of thing.
[00:57:03] So, got to bring back and share a lot of that experience.
[00:57:05] How much longer was deployment once you got done with that?
[00:57:08] I think like a month or so.
[00:57:09] Okay.
[00:57:10] So it was kind of like, eh.
[00:57:11] Yeah.
[00:57:12] Yeah.
[00:57:13] You were just like, so stoked.
[00:57:15] Yeah.
[00:57:16] It was pretty good.
[00:57:17] And yeah.
[00:57:18] So it was a formative experience.
[00:57:20] And then it was like, they called it, it wasn't the surge, but the seal teams we called it, the surge.
[00:57:24] So we got to deploy a year later instead of a year and a half later, I was really held a man.
[00:57:29] So I got to get right back after it.
[00:57:30] So yeah, because you came home.
[00:57:32] Yeah.
[00:57:33] Now did you get pulled to the commander?
[00:57:34] Was it your position?
[00:57:35] So now I'm on your side.
[00:57:36] Second of the assistant.
[00:57:37] Now you're the official assistant.
[00:57:38] It's in my way up.
[00:57:39] Yeah.
[00:57:40] Second of the amount of charge.
[00:57:41] Which is actually awesome.
[00:57:42] That's great.
[00:57:43] Yeah.
[00:57:43] It was amazing.
[00:57:44] Yeah.
[00:57:45] You're super stoked.
[00:57:46] You're like, well, I just had that awesome deployment.
[00:57:47] And now I get to do another assistant between commander.
[00:57:49] No matter.
[00:57:50] No factor.
[00:57:51] And this time you got to do an actual workup.
[00:57:53] Or you did a workup the first time, too.
[00:57:55] Ish.
[00:57:56] But I was that that third of, so that's what an admin stuff here and there.
[00:57:58] It wasn't quite the way it is today where you're only doing admin stuff as that kind of guy attached to the task unit head shed over the earth.
[00:58:05] But essentially, I was doing a ton of the act.
[00:58:06] But you're still doing all that.
[00:58:07] You stood at the workup.
[00:58:08] Yeah.
[00:58:09] You still worked out.
[00:58:10] You still went to Mount.
[00:58:11] You still went to Mount.
[00:58:12] You still went to Mount.
[00:58:13] You still went to Mount.
[00:58:14] Not all of them.
[00:58:15] Really.
[00:58:16] No.
[00:58:16] Because I was like, head to my deployment with the other east coast team in there.
[00:58:17] I came back and did a Haiti when that went down.
[00:58:18] Because I was an extra guy.
[00:58:19] So I got to go down there, which was pretty cool.
[00:58:21] You make a good strap hanger, huh?
[00:58:23] You can get one of those guys that kind of like.
[00:58:25] I didn't actually land like that.
[00:58:27] I was always kind of like, man, I'm not in the, you know, I'm not in the A.
[00:58:31] I'm not an A.
[00:58:31] You did a good deal.
[00:58:32] They could be like, I've heard a run for his money.
[00:58:34] They was, it was not a bad time to be just a dude hanging out.
[00:58:38] They could grab it anytime.
[00:58:39] And of course, I'm like, can you go?
[00:58:41] Yep.
[00:58:42] Yeah.
[00:58:42] Of course.
[00:58:43] Second go.
[00:58:44] A sweet Emily, me in this afternoon.
[00:58:46] Great.
[00:58:47] So you, so now you're in your, now you're doing an actual workup.
[00:58:50] You get to do all the training and then you go on deployment.
[00:58:52] And you go back to Iraq again.
[00:58:53] Yep.
[00:58:54] Yep.
[00:58:55] And hit her body this time.
[00:58:56] Sweet.
[00:58:57] So going into her mind.
[00:58:58] So now it's 0.5.
[00:58:59] So five.
[00:59:00] Yep.
[00:59:01] Follow up 0.5.
[00:59:02] Of course it changes throughout that workup.
[00:59:04] You're on here, you're on there, whatever, but I forget it.
[00:59:06] What time it turned to you are going to your body now.
[00:59:09] But that's where you, that's where you wanted to be.
[00:59:11] You know, five, oh, six.
[00:59:12] And so we got to get in there.
[00:59:15] And no, it was interesting because I forget if there was someone there before us or not.
[00:59:18] I can't, I don't know why I can't remember if there was a turn of the
[00:59:20] must have been somebody there.
[00:59:21] But I, I didn't stand out in my head anyway.
[00:59:23] I think it was a much smaller depth before you got me.
[00:59:26] Maybe.
[00:59:27] Yeah.
[00:59:28] And I wasn't part of that initial that first, my head shed goes over first.
[00:59:31] The head shed went over and then I was the senior guy that came over with the rest of the guys.
[00:59:35] So I didn't really do when I got when we got there.
[00:59:37] Most of the world was gone and it was, it was just time to time to figure it out.
[00:59:41] So we got to have a few cool things.
[00:59:43] Like going out with the Marines, dressing up like a Marine, getting left behind to do this
[00:59:48] Napper's thoughts.
[00:59:49] You know, not exactly what you guys did because you guys really got after it.
[00:59:52] But, you know, baby steps.
[00:59:54] Yeah, right on.
[00:59:55] So it was, you know, going just going out with the Marines in the day.
[00:59:58] Yeah.
[00:59:59] Doing those patrols.
[01:00:00] Where this, where the ID threat is high.
[01:00:03] One of the most dangerous cities in the world at the time.
[01:00:05] Like, that was legit.
[01:00:07] Yeah, that's a, that's a get some evolution.
[01:00:09] Yeah.
[01:00:10] I was just being on the base.
[01:00:11] I mean, but the mortar's coming in, and I didn't,
[01:00:13] and I stayed, I didn't stay in that, that, whatever the,
[01:00:16] the build out the building, stayed out in the tents for the guys.
[01:00:19] Yeah.
[01:00:20] Yeah.
[01:00:21] And yeah, there's nothing there to protect you from the mortar coming in.
[01:00:24] Like, you just sleep in,
[01:00:25] and I'll let's let him a little bit of land on you.
[01:00:27] Yeah, well on the receiving end.
[01:00:30] And then during that deployment as well,
[01:00:33] you also went to Baghdad and work with an
[01:00:35] in-dage force there too.
[01:00:36] Yeah, that's why I didn't see you in turnover.
[01:00:38] Um, got to do this the second thing in my time
[01:00:40] in the military that was the most formative
[01:00:42] and yeah, I've got to do some stuff in Baghdad with a
[01:00:45] two other DAs basically.
[01:00:46] Yep, yep.
[01:00:47] Doing that with a, come over with a civilian type
[01:00:49] organization and, uh, yeah, with a little less,
[01:00:52] um, I guess oversight.
[01:00:54] You'd say.
[01:00:55] So I loved it.
[01:00:56] I just did fit my personality and my, uh,
[01:00:59] my drive, I guess.
[01:01:00] Like I was a perfect fit from yet that time.
[01:01:03] Um, actually one of the things that happened during that
[01:01:06] time was the inspiration for the second book,
[01:01:08] one of the guys that I met there, one of the, uh,
[01:01:09] a racky that I was working with.
[01:01:11] Um, but yeah, that was a, that was a great time.
[01:01:13] Learned a ton, we're right there next to, um,
[01:01:16] guys from Great Britain, other army guys from there.
[01:01:20] Uh, I guess premier special operations unit.
[01:01:23] Um, so when we're doing stuff together,
[01:01:25] uh, and uh, you had a, you guys had a really good
[01:01:28] optempo if I remember correctly.
[01:01:29] It was a good time to be part of that.
[01:01:31] Yeah.
[01:01:31] So I had a blast doing that, learn to ton, and I got to stay active.
[01:01:35] Got to, got to, got to stay getting after it.
[01:01:38] Not every night, but you know,
[01:01:39] Yeah.
[01:01:40] Good, good optempo.
[01:01:41] Cause it optempo.
[01:01:42] And then you wrap up that deployment,
[01:01:44] which again, these are, these are,
[01:01:46] you got some choice deployments.
[01:01:47] I mean, you could was, yeah.
[01:01:49] Choice deployments.
[01:01:50] It was a good time to, look to be in.
[01:01:52] My timing was good there.
[01:01:53] But then I get back. So now I've done, well, five deployments in a row.
[01:01:57] And you're married?
[01:01:58] I'm married. Yeah.
[01:01:59] I've got married after that first deployment.
[01:02:00] So what's the kid count at this point?
[01:02:03] We are at one.
[01:02:05] Okay.
[01:02:06] One.
[01:02:06] And then, uh, two for the next one and then three for the next one.
[01:02:09] So what'd you do when you got home from that deployment to,
[01:02:12] with, with, when you got done with your assistant,
[01:02:15] Paltune commander tour.
[01:02:17] So this is one of my good deal, train ants.
[01:02:19] And, uh, I get back and I've done five deployments in a row.
[01:02:22] Uh, if you count the endless did ones, three is an officer, all of them,
[01:02:25] get an after it, and they're like, you need to go somewhere
[01:02:28] and get some professional development.
[01:02:29] Oh, yeah, they did.
[01:02:30] It's like, like, wind your scam, but they put a whole ball that way.
[01:02:35] Yep.
[01:02:35] And, uh, set my exo and, uh, was the ops had been the ops so in Germany.
[01:02:40] So he's like you need to put a Germany.
[01:02:42] And you need to do your thermo to unit does.
[01:02:44] Um, like, uh, unit two, what?
[01:02:46] Like, that's a place to be in 1944.
[01:02:49] That's why I want to be, not in 2007.
[01:02:51] And, uh, so I went kickin' in the screaming and I probably should have just said Roger that,
[01:02:55] you know, but, uh, you know, I've, uh, five deployments in a row, and those last three,
[01:02:59] being fairly intense, uh, I didn't want my guys to go back without me.
[01:03:02] You know, I felt like, you know, I'm abandoning them to go to Germany and go,
[01:03:06] like, taste wine and look at, like, castle walls and these different towns, like, that, no.
[01:03:12] Um, but you gotta go.
[01:03:14] Um, but since I'd worked with that other government agency,
[01:03:17] um, I got, uh, kind of, I guess you'd say recruited by them.
[01:03:21] And while I'm waiting to go to Germany, I go up to DC and do my bunch of tests,
[01:03:26] then they put you through up there and, uh, get a class update to go to, uh, to that organization.
[01:03:32] And, uh, so I get to Germany.
[01:03:34] I'm there for a few months.
[01:03:35] It's horrible.
[01:03:36] Um, I, uh, well, they think of a different language school first, because they thought I was going to go to North Africa West Africa.
[01:03:41] How long is French language school?
[01:03:42] Six months.
[01:03:43] I'm going to go to the six months.
[01:03:44] Um, that was actually good.
[01:03:46] But, whatever, good family time, all that stuff.
[01:03:47] But I still wanted to be in a record.
[01:03:49] I'm straight up D.O.I.
[01:03:50] And straight up D.O.I.
[01:03:51] I'm on a, right?
[01:03:52] You helped.
[01:03:52] You know, yeah.
[01:03:53] Luckily, I was at an off site, so I didn't have to go on pace, so that was,
[01:03:56] that was good.
[01:03:57] So that was, I guess, I guess, another key.
[01:03:59] I was keeping it good.
[01:04:00] Yeah.
[01:04:00] And of course, now I find out about CrossFit.
[01:04:02] So I found it about CrossFit in her body.
[01:04:03] So now I'm just crushing the CrossFit.
[01:04:05] And, uh, people think I'm insane, um, because no one really had seen that yet.
[01:04:09] It was 2006, 2007, and they're like, what?
[01:04:12] Well, especially outside of the seal team, the outside of, you know, firefighters and all that stuff.
[01:04:16] Just the regular gym.
[01:04:17] They say you're doing all this swing and burbells around like their kettlebell or whatever.
[01:04:22] Um, so I'm getting shaped.
[01:04:23] I'm training for my next, whatever deployment.
[01:04:26] Trying to make myself better.
[01:04:27] Um, but we go to Germany.
[01:04:29] Get there.
[01:04:30] Hate it.
[01:04:31] Uh, a lot of people that were loving it.
[01:04:32] And that made me hate it even more.
[01:04:33] Um, and I probably should have just said, this is where the government needs me.
[01:04:37] So I'm going to do the best I can along here.
[01:04:39] And I did the best I could, but you're not doing anything.
[01:04:41] It was awful.
[01:04:42] Um, I shouldn't say that.
[01:04:43] It is a very important place to be.
[01:04:45] And they have a mission.
[01:04:46] Yeah.
[01:04:47] And that's great.
[01:04:48] But it wasn't for me.
[01:04:49] Um, so I dropped my papers to get out to go to that, uh, because I was wanting to get back to what I was doing.
[01:04:52] Interact and bagged at 2006, getting it.
[01:04:55] And, uh, so dropped my papers and, gonna go, just get out and go do that.
[01:05:00] And, uh, then a two weeks later they call me the seal call me back in.
[01:05:02] So let's say there's a, uh, a, a, an OIC at Team 7 got out, there's a spot open deal on it.
[01:05:09] And I was not expecting that at all.
[01:05:10] And I said, Woah, my mind was already set.
[01:05:12] I was I was essentially mentally out as out.
[01:05:14] I was training.
[01:05:15] I was getting ready for take to go back down right with this other group.
[01:05:18] And, uh, so when I'm talking about wife, she was breaking it again with number,
[01:05:21] second child.
[01:05:22] And we decided to stay in them, like, okay, can get, uh, get back after do that leadership role.
[01:05:27] role that I became an officer to have.
[01:05:32] And we like team seven.
[01:05:34] And that's why I met you right now.
[01:05:36] So now I get my first taste of Jaco.
[01:05:38] And some finally some actual professional development
[01:05:42] that mattered.
[01:05:43] And it's up into that one.
[01:05:45] It's baptism by fire.
[01:05:46] Like you show up at team two.
[01:05:47] Hey, you're going to Afghanistan.
[01:05:48] Oh, no training other than the T-shirt folding.
[01:05:52] And under were folding, it was yes.
[01:05:55] Luckily, I had some really good guys
[01:05:56] on those deployments that had already been
[01:05:59] to Afghanistan that took me under their wing
[01:06:01] that showed me how these nods work.
[01:06:04] The point man only had them when you're last
[01:06:05] but two and the horse of Denver 11 tears.
[01:06:08] I used these things.
[01:06:09] Yeah, and that's kind of the way it used to be.
[01:06:11] It was OJT and the young junior officers
[01:06:14] or even the young and listed guys,
[01:06:15] you just get trained by the more experienced guys.
[01:06:18] And that works great.
[01:06:20] If you're lucky enough to have a good experience guy
[01:06:22] that has the desire to teach you that really
[01:06:25] cares about the job,
[01:06:26] that wants to do a good job,
[01:06:27] that recognizes the importance of leadership.
[01:06:30] And then it works fine.
[01:06:31] Yeah.
[01:06:32] The problem is that it's not, it doesn't always work like that.
[01:06:35] So you get a guy that's a knuckle,
[01:06:36] you get a guy that doesn't care.
[01:06:37] You can just end up in a bad situation.
[01:06:39] And then some young kids were young,
[01:06:42] we're influential.
[01:06:45] What?
[01:06:46] Where we're very easily influenced.
[01:06:50] And we see how a bad leader acts.
[01:06:52] And they tell us that that's how we're supposed to act.
[01:06:54] And we start acting that way.
[01:06:55] I've seen that happen many times.
[01:06:57] I'd meet a guy.
[01:06:58] I'd meet a guy that would be coming through my training.
[01:07:02] And he wouldn't quite be a good leader.
[01:07:05] And I'd say, let me just be talking to him.
[01:07:07] Oh, who was your Paltoon Chief when you were a new guy?
[01:07:09] And they'd name a guy and I'd say, OK, I see.
[01:07:11] Well, you could very easily find the root problems here.
[01:07:15] Or I'd get a young, oh, I get a Paltoon Commander.
[01:07:17] And I'd say, well, who was your Paltoon Commander when
[01:07:19] you were an AOC and they'd give a name?
[01:07:21] And the guy would be a bad leader.
[01:07:23] And he'd say, OK, well, I know where you got this from.
[01:07:25] And they would give me the ability to actually steer
[01:07:29] them in the right direction and say, hey, I wouldn't be
[01:07:31] offensive about their old boss or anything.
[01:07:33] But I'd start, like, saying, hey, there's
[01:07:35] another way to look at these things.
[01:07:36] So yeah, sure.
[01:07:39] That sounds like, but you got lucky.
[01:07:40] You had some good leadership.
[01:07:41] I mean, I know who your CEO was at team 2.
[01:07:43] He's freaking out standing.
[01:07:45] And yeah, so you had some good, you know,
[01:07:47] you did some great mentorship.
[01:07:48] Yeah, he cared about it.
[01:07:49] He cared about mentorship.
[01:07:51] And his, the senior guy, Steve brought with him
[01:07:53] from his other command.
[01:07:54] Also cared about those senior chiefs.
[01:07:56] They cared about what the next generation of both
[01:07:59] and listed hand officers were going to do and how they
[01:08:01] were going to lead.
[01:08:02] And so I was very fortunate to be the recipient of that
[01:08:06] mentorship and that guidance.
[01:08:09] And that served me well.
[01:08:10] And I had a good foundation anyway, but having that
[01:08:14] have somebody that cared that put a little structure.
[01:08:17] I mean, not, you know, a little structure behind it was
[01:08:22] refreshing.
[01:08:22] And yeah, I just took all that on board and just,
[01:08:25] you know, one of the best leader I could for my guys.
[01:08:28] But now it's team 7.
[01:08:29] So that's, now it's, well, it was a good, it was a great
[01:08:33] experience as an OIC.
[01:08:34] But most of that was due to the training that you brought.
[01:08:38] And so now I got to professionalize things a little bit,
[01:08:40] think about them.
[01:08:41] And now my deployment, my good deal, train, I thought,
[01:08:43] ended.
[01:08:44] And for it, it's spiked a little bit.
[01:08:46] And we thought, oh, we're going back to Afghanistan.
[01:08:48] Yes, and it's going to be you guys, because you
[01:08:49] know, it didn't end up being my opportunity.
[01:08:53] So I got to go to the PI, got to go to the Philippines.
[01:08:55] And first I'm like, yeah, that's a bummer.
[01:08:58] But you ended up being a great experience at an outstation.
[01:09:02] Had more special forces guys, working for me,
[01:09:04] then I had seals working for me at multiple outstations
[01:09:07] that reported to me.
[01:09:10] And we were there to assist.
[01:09:13] This has been a wise type of thing.
[01:09:15] But it was with a Philippine Marine general.
[01:09:17] And I've also been down there fighting that in certainty
[01:09:20] in the Southern Island chain, since he was an instant
[01:09:22] or whatever they, you know, a second lieutenant.
[01:09:25] And I know, so I took the role of a student with him.
[01:09:30] And amazing guy.
[01:09:32] And just I really learned the area,
[01:09:33] learned what they were up against,
[01:09:35] learned how the enemy was adapting to them,
[01:09:37] and how it changed over his 30 some years of doing that.
[01:09:41] And of course, he was mentored,
[01:09:42] because they've been doing that for over 100 or plus years,
[01:09:43] they've been fighting that thing.
[01:09:45] So he was a recipient of mentorship and lessons
[01:09:48] from the people that came before him.
[01:09:49] And I took that time, because I noticed that the SF guys,
[01:09:53] the Army SF guys, particularly the Warn Officer,
[01:09:55] that was there with me,
[01:09:56] knew a lot more about counterinsurgency than I did.
[01:09:59] Like I had the tactical kick in the door.
[01:10:01] I had that experience.
[01:10:02] But I didn't have that broader piece yet.
[01:10:04] And so I took that time in the Philippines to study
[01:10:07] and read a ton.
[01:10:09] And who are the, who are the foremost experts
[01:10:12] on counterinsurgency out there?
[01:10:13] Where are they?
[01:10:14] How are they going to touch with them?
[01:10:15] Do they have anything I can read?
[01:10:16] And so I just really schooled myself up.
[01:10:18] And so it became a kind of a competition
[01:10:21] between me and him in discussions
[01:10:22] about counterinsurgency's worldwide,
[01:10:24] but particularly where we are,
[01:10:25] but how that applies more broadly.
[01:10:27] So I took it as a time to,
[01:10:29] and we did get to go to the VATE,
[01:10:31] got to do some things down there,
[01:10:32] the film rings, with us just helping with some more technical things.
[01:10:37] But they got to get after it.
[01:10:40] And they lost guys, and we were there doing the MetaVac
[01:10:42] and doing all that sort of thing.
[01:10:44] You know, the body's lined up the whole deal.
[01:10:47] And it was, so it ended up being a very,
[01:10:51] I guess, another form of experience for me.
[01:10:55] And then I got to use what I learned about working with the army
[01:10:58] once again, but in my next appointment as a troop commander,
[01:11:01] or once again, I had, and I went back to Iraq
[01:11:03] and I had more SF guys working under my command
[01:11:07] than I had sales.
[01:11:10] So it was good.
[01:11:10] It was good run.
[01:11:11] So you went through that work up
[01:11:13] on your routine commander in 2008.
[01:11:17] Yep.
[01:11:18] Cool.
[01:11:19] So I was pretty settled in,
[01:11:20] because I had come home in 2006 and 2007,
[01:11:22] I took over the training.
[01:11:24] So yeah, we were going hard.
[01:11:26] Oh yeah.
[01:11:27] Oh yeah, yeah, my first experience heard all about this jacco guy.
[01:11:30] Oh, why?
[01:11:31] Who is this guy?
[01:11:32] And the first time you walked in to that room,
[01:11:37] that briefing room at Fort Knox,
[01:11:38] the stadium seating, and they had the dynamic things
[01:11:41] up at the sand tables.
[01:11:43] And you came in and gave us this talk, and I was like,
[01:11:46] dang.
[01:11:47] Yeah, let's go get it.
[01:11:49] It was awesome.
[01:11:50] But I had one of my more formative experience
[01:11:53] in training in that particular urban warfare environment
[01:11:58] thing where you probably remember the scenario,
[01:12:02] because you probably did it for most of the platoon's
[01:12:04] and troops coming through.
[01:12:06] But you have a mission.
[01:12:07] And you go out there and you're doing that mission.
[01:12:09] And I'm the ground force commander now, the GFC.
[01:12:12] And I'm there in my vehicle, and helicopter crashes,
[01:12:16] like a few buildings down, if you block down.
[01:12:18] And that comes over there with a radioing for help.
[01:12:21] For a couple blocks away.
[01:12:22] And we still have guys in the building.
[01:12:24] And our guys are taking contact in the building.
[01:12:25] And it's all set up whatever.
[01:12:27] And I'm hearing that, and I'm not going.
[01:12:30] I'm going to deal with this problem first,
[01:12:32] when it prioritizes an execute.
[01:12:34] Yes.
[01:12:35] But I wasn't quite doing that yet.
[01:12:36] I was like, I'm listening to the radio.
[01:12:38] And I'm hearing that a woman screaming
[01:12:40] to helicopter pilot female screaming, like,
[01:12:42] they're surrounding us.
[01:12:44] What the whole thing.
[01:12:45] And like, what do I do?
[01:12:48] And I split my force.
[01:12:49] Oh, yeah.
[01:12:50] I split my force.
[01:12:52] And so these two vehicles break in off.
[01:12:55] You're going to go to the crash site, secure the crash site.
[01:12:57] Well, then meet you at that crash site.
[01:12:59] And we'll actually help take another.
[01:13:00] So you know what happens next?
[01:13:01] Yes, I do.
[01:13:02] The saster.
[01:13:03] The saster.
[01:13:04] Everything goes.
[01:13:05] And that was the point of the exercise.
[01:13:07] I think if you split your force,
[01:13:08] that, I don't know what happens every time.
[01:13:10] But in this case, it did.
[01:13:12] It was it to end up being a disaster.
[01:13:14] We get out.
[01:13:15] We live guys behind.
[01:13:16] If we go back in, the whole thing.
[01:13:17] It was great.
[01:13:19] It was great.
[01:13:19] But I've never seen it out with you afterward.
[01:13:22] And I really drove home.
[01:13:23] Yeah, prioritize and execute.
[01:13:25] And if you split your force, you better
[01:13:29] have a damn good reason to split that force.
[01:13:32] Just had a guy named John Strikermier on the podcast.
[01:13:35] The last podcast you couldn't have heard it yet,
[01:13:37] because it's not out yet.
[01:13:39] But he's selling a story.
[01:13:41] He's in Vietnam and this guy's just incredible.
[01:13:43] Sock, just the most insane stories ever.
[01:13:46] And he's telling a story.
[01:13:48] And he goes, yeah, so I split my forces.
[01:13:50] And I put four guys on one side of the valley
[01:13:52] and four guys on the other side of the valley.
[01:13:53] And we start moving it.
[01:13:55] And I had to find out.
[01:13:56] Because I mean, this is disturbing to me.
[01:14:00] And so I said, I was like, hey, explain to me,
[01:14:04] what made you decide to split your forces?
[01:14:08] I said, I never liked it.
[01:14:09] He goes, I never, he goes, I split, no, this is what he said.
[01:14:11] He goes, I split my forces two times in Vietnam.
[01:14:14] Other than that, it's horrible.
[01:14:15] I do, because I didn't even like doing it here.
[01:14:17] I didn't have a choice.
[01:14:18] So that is a true statement.
[01:14:20] That is a true statement.
[01:14:21] If you can avoid splitting your forces,
[01:14:23] avoid splitting your forces.
[01:14:24] And if you have to, you better have a damn good plan.
[01:14:26] You better have a damn good reason.
[01:14:28] Because when then when you add enemy fire into it,
[01:14:31] trying to link up forces friendly forces under enemy fire,
[01:14:36] I believe that's the hardest thing to do in combat.
[01:14:39] I think that's the hardest thing to do in combat
[01:14:40] is separate forces trying to link up with enemy contacts.
[01:14:45] Is it freaking nightmare?
[01:14:46] Yep.
[01:14:47] And so if you can avoid it, avoid it.
[01:14:48] Yep.
[01:14:49] Have had to do that in Baghdad.
[01:14:50] Once with a QRF that we just talked to on the radio before
[01:14:55] and that was a little dicey, but yeah,
[01:14:58] the knots split in your forces for her ties and executing
[01:15:00] never forget that experience.
[01:15:03] And luckily up until that point,
[01:15:04] I hadn't been in a situation where I had to do it down range.
[01:15:07] Because I probably would have done it.
[01:15:10] But after that training, I was like, I would think,
[01:15:14] I think long and hard.
[01:15:15] Yeah.
[01:15:16] Maybe not long hard.
[01:15:17] I would think it through.
[01:15:18] I think it through before doing that.
[01:15:20] So yeah, tough move to make.
[01:15:22] Yeah, that was great.
[01:15:23] For me, coming back from the body,
[01:15:24] I was like super paranoid about stuff
[01:15:28] and really into the fact that I wanted people
[01:15:32] to not make dumb mistakes that I made or that I could have made
[01:15:36] or that I saw that people make.
[01:15:37] Like, so I was pretty adamant to make sure
[01:15:41] that guys were learning lessons.
[01:15:42] Oh yeah, no, it was amazing.
[01:15:44] I was training was great.
[01:15:45] And then we went to New Island, of course,
[01:15:47] into the Land of Warfare thing.
[01:15:48] And I was very comfortable with that because at Team,
[01:15:52] on the East Coast, we done that IMT,
[01:15:54] individual movement technique, the earlier on, I guess,
[01:15:57] maybe the West Coast.
[01:15:58] So I had done it a couple times already.
[01:16:01] So some of my junior officers that had never done it before
[01:16:04] and they were like, what are we doing?
[01:16:05] What?
[01:16:06] It's not just online and just the old school.
[01:16:09] So they didn't quite get it.
[01:16:11] But I was, as a student commander, I was very comfortable
[01:16:13] with that at Nile.
[01:16:14] And so it was, yeah, obviously amazing training,
[01:16:17] especially with the technology that came along
[01:16:19] at the time.
[01:16:20] There was no hiding from any mistakes
[01:16:23] that you might have made out there.
[01:16:24] You got the GPS on you and you go back
[01:16:26] and you debrief it.
[01:16:27] And then out of that old school 90s, like,
[01:16:28] no, that wasn't me.
[01:16:29] I think it was someone's over there.
[01:16:30] I would never do something like that.
[01:16:32] Oh no, here it is.
[01:16:33] Here's your number, whatever it was on there.
[01:16:35] And you can watch it all in the debrief.
[01:16:37] You can watch your little, watch your little,
[01:16:39] your little, what's that, what's that tank on?
[01:16:41] Your little icon on the ground on the field.
[01:16:44] And watch your little icon engage your own forces.
[01:16:47] Yeah, oh yeah.
[01:16:48] You can watch that over and over again.
[01:16:50] Right.
[01:16:50] Yep, no, exactly.
[01:16:52] And then going through the second time,
[01:16:53] things evolve and change and all that.
[01:16:55] But going through the second time is a troop commander
[01:16:58] then I was even more comfortable with it.
[01:17:00] Particularly in those those situations,
[01:17:02] I need the lessons we wanted to get out of there.
[01:17:04] And then I could do it a little better,
[01:17:06] even then when I was aatoon commander
[01:17:07] because I already learned some of those
[01:17:08] in those particular scenarios.
[01:17:10] But yeah, that was an amazing training.
[01:17:12] And there's no question the impact
[01:17:16] that has had on the field teams
[01:17:17] for the positive way.
[01:17:19] Kared some downmen, did you?
[01:17:21] That was awesome.
[01:17:22] That was awesome.
[01:17:23] Yeah.
[01:17:24] Everybody went down and every time.
[01:17:26] Yeah, yeah.
[01:17:27] It was a lot of downmen drills.
[01:17:29] Yeah, I was a lot of,
[01:17:30] I mean, especially, and then what was cool for me
[01:17:33] and people always remember that.
[01:17:34] But, but, well, they talked to me about it.
[01:17:37] And sometimes even then, you know, this is too much, you know.
[01:17:40] And the fact of the matter is,
[01:17:42] if your leadership did a good job inside of a task unit
[01:17:46] or inside of a troop, if the leadership did a good job
[01:17:49] and the U.S. decentralized command
[01:17:51] and the fire team leaders got up and made things happen.
[01:17:53] And they kept things up.
[01:17:54] Like if they did those things,
[01:17:56] the trade-out guys, the trade-out cadre couldn't take.
[01:18:01] They couldn't put a bunch of people down
[01:18:02] because they would get their asses kicked
[01:18:04] by the troop, the troop would crush them.
[01:18:06] And, you know, that one usually not happen early on
[01:18:09] because they would have to figure this out.
[01:18:10] But once they got good at it, like the trade-out guys
[01:18:13] would say, you know, they'd be calling up
[01:18:14] myself or the, or the mastery of run it
[01:18:16] and be like, hey, can you bring me back to life?
[01:18:18] Can you bring me back to life?
[01:18:19] And be like, no, man, you, you know, you got killed.
[01:18:21] Of course, sometimes we would bring him back to life
[01:18:23] to press up to an harder, of course.
[01:18:24] I'm not gonna claim that we didn't do that.
[01:18:27] Cause Dale, we're gonna put the pressure.
[01:18:30] Yeah.
[01:18:31] But, that's amazing.
[01:18:33] The down mandrels, yeah, I get you, get you in shape.
[01:18:35] And then, but then it gets people pissed off.
[01:18:38] Like I came back to life and your pissed thing
[01:18:39] not making a decision.
[01:18:40] So, and we don't, and the other thing,
[01:18:43] it's that you taught me and I passed on
[01:18:45] and it's, I still think about today
[01:18:46] and it's, like, it's in the book.
[01:18:48] Take a breath, look around, make a call.
[01:18:52] It's easy as that.
[01:18:54] That's, I think about that a lot.
[01:18:55] I gotta do, sit back, get off my gun.
[01:18:58] Look around, what's going on,
[01:18:59] what's the satiactical situation?
[01:19:01] And make a call.
[01:19:02] Yeah.
[01:19:03] That's it.
[01:19:04] So simple, so not easy.
[01:19:07] So not easy, like, what it's cool
[01:19:10] and someone like, like, for someone like yourself
[01:19:11] that's a sniper that likes to shoot
[01:19:13] and now it's under your task,
[01:19:14] you know, commander, it's really easy
[01:19:16] to get to go right back to what you're super comfortable with
[01:19:18] which is, hey, I'll just get on my gun
[01:19:19] and start killing bad guys.
[01:19:21] But you got 40 other guys that are doing that.
[01:19:23] Yep.
[01:19:24] And none of those 40 guys are actually making a decision
[01:19:25] about where you're gonna go next to save everyone.
[01:19:27] So you're the guy that has to do it.
[01:19:28] So that's a good one.
[01:19:30] Yep, for sure.
[01:19:32] When I look back at old pictures,
[01:19:33] I see how my loadout changed over the years.
[01:19:37] And now, five times, I was a true commander.
[01:19:39] You know, I'm a lot lighter.
[01:19:40] Well, I've been radios now.
[01:19:41] Two of them, you're carrying radis.
[01:19:43] And then I got my mags on my cat.
[01:19:45] Only three in one of the gun or whatever it was.
[01:19:47] But there's a reason for that.
[01:19:48] It's because that, my job is not a control of this element
[01:19:50] and crush the enemy, not to be on the trigger.
[01:19:53] And then what was your, what was that deployment?
[01:19:55] Like where'd you go as a two?
[01:19:56] So that was interesting because it was the,
[01:19:58] it was the withdrawal from Iraq.
[01:20:00] Oh, okay.
[01:20:01] So we're there six months.
[01:20:03] But it was, cause we didn't know if we were staying,
[01:20:07] if we were going, if we were staying,
[01:20:08] or our authorities were gonna be where we were gonna be based.
[01:20:12] There was a lot of questions.
[01:20:14] So we had to prepare about to stay long-term
[01:20:17] and to get up back and come home,
[01:20:20] which is what ended up happening.
[01:20:22] So I think we got, they made us our element actually
[01:20:24] in an up going, they had to leave in at the end of November,
[01:20:26] I guess, there was another month there.
[01:20:27] But it was getting, they packed it up in the go home, essentially.
[01:20:32] But you're working with partner force
[01:20:33] and you're using your technical intelligence
[01:20:37] to try to prosecute targets so that this,
[01:20:40] it wasn't gonna come a high way of death
[01:20:42] on the way out of there as the enemy just sets.
[01:20:44] Did you drive out of there?
[01:20:45] No, we flew.
[01:20:46] You guys for real.
[01:20:47] I was, they drove out pretty peacefully too.
[01:20:50] Not a big massive convo, I don't see you later.
[01:20:52] Exactly, there's not, now we expected.
[01:20:55] So, but it's cool for a little bit,
[01:20:56] cause you got, I think they got a little more liberal
[01:21:00] with some of the targets there for a while,
[01:21:02] when they're like, okay, we don't with this highway death,
[01:21:03] that's not gonna be on me because I denied.
[01:21:06] I didn't wanna let a unit of lateral up go
[01:21:08] when we're leaving anyway.
[01:21:10] So, for a little, we got to do a couple of things,
[01:21:13] but mostly it was a leadership challenge
[01:21:17] to keep the guys focused on their mission.
[01:21:20] At the same time, getting ready to go home
[01:21:22] for almost the entire deployment.
[01:21:24] So it was an interesting time.
[01:21:24] That was Bazaar, Southern Rhapsody,
[01:21:26] and then down there before,
[01:21:27] the brits had been there first, of course,
[01:21:28] a totally different terrain than anything I had dealt with before.
[01:21:32] And it was good.
[01:21:33] It was an interesting deployment at a great senior chief
[01:21:37] and who's still in, who's still in crushing it.
[01:21:39] And yeah, came home, that was the last time I'd ever
[01:21:43] tactically lead guys in the battlefield.
[01:21:45] And I knew that, and it pretty much as soon as we were
[01:21:47] airborne on the way home, like, getting out.
[01:21:51] So that was it, I don't know.
[01:21:52] How many years were you out of that point?
[01:21:53] I think I was at 16 right there.
[01:21:55] And what was your family situation at this time?
[01:21:57] So three kids and right, if you're during the second workout.
[01:22:02] So in my OIC, work up the one where I met you
[01:22:05] and then went to the Philippines.
[01:22:07] That's in our middle child with born.
[01:22:09] And we found out, I think it was at the,
[01:22:11] one, to check up that something wasn't quite right.
[01:22:14] And he ended up, well, I'll get to where he has,
[01:22:18] but we couldn't know what was going on.
[01:22:19] It wasn't eating.
[01:22:21] Wasn't meal milestones.
[01:22:22] There was something off in my wife knew right away.
[01:22:24] But it was just like, I just took a gatorly when he's hungry.
[01:22:27] That sort of thing.
[01:22:28] And we didn't know what was happening.
[01:22:30] So all during that second, or that deployment,
[01:22:33] they put me in that exceptional family member
[01:22:34] of category five because there was, you know,
[01:22:37] pretty severely disabled.
[01:22:38] And which means that you're not going anywhere outside
[01:22:42] of your current medical situation for your family.
[01:22:45] So it essentially takes the decision
[01:22:47] out of the service members hands, which is a good thing.
[01:22:49] Meaning you're going to stay.
[01:22:51] You were in San Diego.
[01:22:52] So that exceptional service member thing says,
[01:22:54] OK, we got to take care of this guy.
[01:22:56] Well, he's going to stay in San Diego.
[01:22:58] Yeah, so that's a different level to it.
[01:23:00] But I was just going to do that during your second
[01:23:02] during your OIC tour or during your two career tour.
[01:23:04] I think you in the two commander tour.
[01:23:05] The first, we're still trying to figure out what was going on
[01:23:07] during that first one and nobody knew what was going on with them.
[01:23:10] So it's a lot of doctor visits, all that sort of thing.
[01:23:13] But my wife did it all because, as you know, when you're in,
[01:23:16] that pendulum has to be on the team.
[01:23:18] That's your responsibility as a leader.
[01:23:20] You owe it to the mission.
[01:23:21] You owe it to the guys.
[01:23:22] You owe it to their families.
[01:23:23] You owe it to the country.
[01:23:24] Ultimately, to have that be your sole focus.
[01:23:27] And that's out what the pendulum is over there.
[01:23:29] And my wife got that.
[01:23:32] That's what you do as a leader, obviously.
[01:23:35] So when I got back, well,
[01:23:37] yeah, when I got back, we still don't know.
[01:23:39] So now I've done two workouts with this situation,
[01:23:41] two deployments with this situation.
[01:23:43] My wife handled it the whole time, super strong.
[01:23:46] Get back and I go to Buds as the opposite.
[01:23:49] So now I get to see people ring the bell outside that office
[01:23:51] and put the helmet down.
[01:23:54] But in my head, I know I'm done.
[01:23:55] And I didn't make a, I didn't hide it.
[01:23:58] A lot of guys will hide it if they're planning on getting out.
[01:23:59] They won't say anything to anybody in the chain of command
[01:24:01] because they might stay in or whatever it is.
[01:24:04] But I'm like, yep, getting out.
[01:24:05] That's 20.
[01:24:06] And they're like, no, you're going to be an ex, not a 20.
[01:24:08] And it kind of surprised people when I'd say that.
[01:24:12] Buds is a machine.
[01:24:13] That thing is running.
[01:24:14] And as an opso, it's fairly, I don't know.
[01:24:18] It's not as dynamic.
[01:24:20] Let's say it as a shield team.
[01:24:22] And it's during that, well, a little after that,
[01:24:26] that someone told Ross Perot, our story, the Ross Perot
[01:24:30] and in Texas, the guy.
[01:24:31] And so about your son.
[01:24:33] Yeah, about our son.
[01:24:34] Because you still didn't know what was going on.
[01:24:36] All right, so this is 60 years.
[01:24:37] There's a bunch of different hospitals.
[01:24:39] 96 years old.
[01:24:40] They have no idea what's happened.
[01:24:42] And all sorts of different diagnosis,
[01:24:44] it's paid for Cedar Sinai going up there
[01:24:47] with the foremost experts to an oxygen my wife
[01:24:50] would take him to an oxygen tank 30 days,
[01:24:52] two hours a day or whatever it was that we paid for,
[01:24:55] just to see if anything would help.
[01:24:58] Someone tells Ross Perot story.
[01:24:59] And this is December of 2013, I want to say.
[01:25:04] And I get a call out of the blue from Ross Perot,
[01:25:10] who sounds exactly like Dana Carvey,
[01:25:11] impersonating Ross Perot in the 90s.
[01:25:14] And like what is going on?
[01:25:16] And he's like, I'm gonna, we're gonna fix your son.
[01:25:19] Like what?
[01:25:20] And he's like, I'm gonna send the jet.
[01:25:23] I'm gonna assemble a team of doctors here in Texas
[01:25:25] and we're gonna fix him.
[01:25:26] And then he hangs up like,
[01:25:28] what just happened?
[01:25:29] That was wild.
[01:25:30] And about an hour later,
[01:25:31] he's lead doctor at Southwestern Medical Center calls
[01:25:33] and says, I know Mr. Perot is called you.
[01:25:36] We're not gonna send the jet tomorrow,
[01:25:37] but we are gonna send it.
[01:25:38] And in the meantime, send us everything you have
[01:25:41] on your son and he medical records.
[01:25:43] We'll assemble a team of genetics specialists here
[01:25:45] that will take a look at everything
[01:25:46] and we'll bring you guys in for some testing.
[01:25:48] And see what we can do.
[01:25:50] And it's like, wow, amazing.
[01:25:51] So a month later, they send the jet.
[01:25:54] G550 lands and we get on and head off to Texas
[01:25:57] and go to a week of testing in Dallas.
[01:26:00] And they send our blood all around the world
[01:26:03] and found a genetic specialist in the Netherlands
[01:26:06] who had just discovered the certain genetic mutation
[01:26:08] that helps form in the brain at birth.
[01:26:10] And now it has a name to it.
[01:26:12] It's the three doctors that discovered this.
[01:26:15] But when we found out about,
[01:26:16] he was the 13th person in the world.
[01:26:18] So number 13 in the world, they found with this.
[01:26:20] And it was just called NR2F1,
[01:26:23] which is the gene that this mutation affects.
[01:26:27] And being able to put a name to it for us,
[01:26:31] especially for my wife,
[01:26:32] that was so liberating.
[01:26:34] I can't really describe what it means.
[01:26:35] Just to put a name to it.
[01:26:36] It seems like a simple thing.
[01:26:37] But not knowing for six years
[01:26:39] and then being able to put a name to it
[01:26:40] and know that this is just one of those random,
[01:26:43] freaky things that happens.
[01:26:45] And there's nothing you could have done about it.
[01:26:47] And that's it.
[01:26:49] Just we got to put a name to it.
[01:26:50] So it was like, Roger that.
[01:26:51] Okay, now what do we do?
[01:26:53] And for us, that's our mission in life.
[01:26:55] Can we give us purpose?
[01:26:57] And that purpose in mission is to make sure
[01:26:58] that he reaches his full potential, whatever that may be.
[01:27:01] But he needs 24, seven full-time care for life.
[01:27:04] So, and we have two kids bracketing him on either side.
[01:27:08] So the real challenge is raising those kids
[01:27:09] so that their childhood is not solely defined
[01:27:12] by the brother's condition.
[01:27:13] And hopefully it makes us all more loving,
[01:27:16] more compassionate people.
[01:27:18] And so far it's worked out that way.
[01:27:20] But once again, my wife still bears the brunt of that every day
[01:27:22] because I'm out here.
[01:27:23] You know, I'm having a nice dinner last night.
[01:27:25] I'm here hanging out with you.
[01:27:27] And she's at home.
[01:27:28] Really?
[01:27:29] I'm going to get the bad guy.
[01:27:32] I'm going to go on book tour.
[01:27:33] I'm going to go on book tour.
[01:27:34] And I'm shaking hands and I'm saying,
[01:27:36] I'll add, she's got it.
[01:27:38] The wives that the wives are incredible.
[01:27:41] Mine included, she raised four kids.
[01:27:43] And I was barely ever around.
[01:27:45] So, and same thing with every guy that we have on here,
[01:27:49] the talks about what their wives had to.
[01:27:53] And I think Jason Gardner, when he was on,
[01:27:56] he said, the first time he was on, he said, put up with his wife.
[01:27:59] He had to put up with a lot.
[01:28:00] And then he came back on and said, like, he didn't mean it like that.
[01:28:03] It's like actually had the strength to handle.
[01:28:06] He just bought the appropriate statement is, hey,
[01:28:09] you know, the wives that stick around,
[01:28:11] which is in a big number.
[01:28:13] Right.
[01:28:14] Most women don't have the strength to get through this and deal with this kind of thing.
[01:28:18] But, you know, obviously your wife is insane.
[01:28:21] And as his mind and like, okay,
[01:28:23] you're going to be gone all the time.
[01:28:25] So, I think that's the best thing to do.
[01:28:27] And that's how it has to be.
[01:28:29] So, now, hopefully the pendulum is not quite like this.
[01:28:31] You're like, I'm not dealing with life and death situations.
[01:28:34] So, I can help out a little more.
[01:28:36] But I'm still, this is an entrepreneurial type venture,
[01:28:38] writing is not just writing in a cave somewhere
[01:28:40] and setting it off to New York.
[01:28:42] It's everything that goes along with building a small business.
[01:28:44] So, right now, it's a full-on sprint.
[01:28:46] We have momentum.
[01:28:47] And I don't really have any other speed besides just all in.
[01:28:51] So, sort of building this thing.
[01:28:53] But it's not like you're deploying for six months.
[01:28:55] Other things do shift now.
[01:28:57] So, now, even a, like a two-week trip,
[01:29:00] that's like a six-month deployment.
[01:29:02] Relatively now, because it's not the country asking you to do this.
[01:29:05] You don't owe it to the guys or the mission anymore.
[01:29:08] Type thing.
[01:29:09] But, yeah, I know I'm super, super fortunate to have a wife that I do.
[01:29:13] She's so strong.
[01:29:14] And Arizona is so easy to leaven now.
[01:29:17] And it has a mental capacity to be able to do your old.
[01:29:20] I'd say. But with only the so few people in the world diagnosed with this,
[01:29:24] I think now they're probably up to, must be in the 70s now.
[01:29:27] But, you know, every day is still a struggle.
[01:29:33] And, but that's our mission.
[01:29:36] You know, we got him for a reason.
[01:29:37] And that's, I look at it as we got him because we're strong enough
[01:29:40] to handle it.
[01:29:42] And that's, I don't know how to, you know, house you do look at it.
[01:29:45] I don't really know.
[01:29:46] And then, so as this is going on,
[01:29:48] was that one of the things that made you think about getting out of the Navy?
[01:29:51] Oh yeah. So I didn't think about it while I was doing that OSC Platoon,
[01:29:54] or doing my troop commander tour because I was just all in.
[01:29:57] But once I got back, like when that plane took off,
[01:29:59] when we landed in San Diego, when I took a breath,
[01:30:01] realized I'm going to buzz, I see people,
[01:30:03] guys running on the beach, you know, doing the, doing the buzz thing.
[01:30:07] That's not why I came in.
[01:30:09] I came in, I came in to do the job, I'd done the job.
[01:30:12] Now I owe it to my family to, to let that pendulum go back
[01:30:16] and take care of them. So it was very obvious to me.
[01:30:19] It wasn't like, it wasn't something I struggled with.
[01:30:21] I think a lot of guys, like, should I get a stand?
[01:30:23] Should I get out?
[01:30:24] What's my, hard time with that transition?
[01:30:27] Mine was not difficult.
[01:30:29] Neither was the decision to get out because I was handed my next mission.
[01:30:32] Really, which is didn't care of the family,
[01:30:34] and especially our middle child.
[01:30:36] So in that respect, my transition,
[01:30:39] easy, so wrong word.
[01:30:41] But I knew what I needed to do.
[01:30:43] The decision was clear.
[01:30:44] Yep.
[01:30:45] So no wavering.
[01:30:47] And then you knew from your previous, from your childhood
[01:30:52] that the job you were going to take, the job you're going to go after
[01:30:56] after you retired was going to be a writer.
[01:30:59] Yep.
[01:31:00] Yeah. And of course, you can't say that, especially at that time in the
[01:31:03] steel teams, like, you know, the, the men, lot of the stuff is going on.
[01:31:06] And all that. So that's when I played very close to the chest,
[01:31:10] I say, to the best.
[01:31:12] So I knew what I wanted to do my whole life.
[01:31:14] And I didn't think about it while I was in the team.
[01:31:16] It was just like, that's what I'm going to do next to there.
[01:31:18] That's the amount of thought I put into writing when I was in the teams.
[01:31:21] But everything that I read, growing up, was part of that education.
[01:31:25] All the reading, the on fiction that I did on in certain season,
[01:31:29] terrorism, all that fit into it, and all the personal experience down
[01:31:32] range. So it's almost like I could not be more prepared for what I'm
[01:31:36] doing now as a writer.
[01:31:38] But I didn't, during those last couple years, I was just like, okay,
[01:31:42] up so I'd buds then to Jean after training course,
[01:31:45] OIC, which was a great result in a couple months, but I love that
[01:31:48] because you get to pass on some lessons.
[01:31:51] And then, you know, move on out.
[01:31:53] But that last year in the Navy, and I think I heard you talk about this before,
[01:31:58] and that you didn't do all these things that you're supposed to do
[01:32:00] and you get out.
[01:32:01] Like, I went into the, what are the taps?
[01:32:03] Whatever that course was awful.
[01:32:04] I could do all those things that you're supposed to do.
[01:32:06] I didn't do anything.
[01:32:07] I heard you say that I'm like, you could, how did you get out of that?
[01:32:10] Well, that was going to tell you what's, I mean, you're big dude.
[01:32:12] You're not, you're not going to tell you you got to do this.
[01:32:14] But I went, I did that course and I went to medical,
[01:32:17] and I went to dental, and I did all this signature
[01:32:19] reason, like, I got my paperwork in order.
[01:32:21] And that was like the whole last year, the Navy.
[01:32:23] It was a spine surgery, had spine surgery in there last year, yeah.
[01:32:27] So that was good.
[01:32:28] And so got all that taken, taken care of.
[01:32:31] But it's during that time when I'm like, okay, my job is to get out of the Navy now.
[01:32:35] Well, now I'm going to start thinking about the writing thing.
[01:32:37] And that's when I wrote down about seven different ideas.
[01:32:40] I put them on the table and front of me, like one page,
[01:32:42] synopsis type things.
[01:32:43] And I chose the one that I thought would resonate with people the most.
[01:32:46] And that's that, that theme of a range.
[01:32:48] Because that's a, that's resonated with me as a kid,
[01:32:51] grown up both in movies and books.
[01:32:53] And it's something that just resonates with people in general.
[01:32:56] Is that theme for whatever reason?
[01:32:58] So I knew the first book would be,
[01:33:00] would that be the theme of the first novel?
[01:33:02] And then when did you start actually writing it?
[01:33:06] During that last year.
[01:33:08] So yeah, outline synopsis started writing title camera really quickly.
[01:33:14] All that sort of thing.
[01:33:16] But then submitted it.
[01:33:18] So I got out somewhere of 2016 was my retirement.
[01:33:21] And submitted it to Simon and Schuster in the fall of 2016.
[01:33:26] And I got very lucky, very, very lucky.
[01:33:29] And that friend calls me out of the blue and he says,
[01:33:32] hey, do you know this author Brad Thor?
[01:33:34] I said, oh.
[01:33:35] Yeah, of course I know him.
[01:33:37] And he said, well, I know you're writing this book.
[01:33:39] Do you want to talk to him?
[01:33:40] Maybe I submit advice for you.
[01:33:41] And I said, will he talk to me?
[01:33:43] And he said, let me set it up.
[01:33:44] Yeah.
[01:33:45] It's a former CEO who's out in the finance world now.
[01:33:47] And they sent next to each other at some fundraiser or something.
[01:33:49] And so I get on the phone with this Brad Thor guy.
[01:33:52] And he could not have been more generous with this time.
[01:33:54] It was kind of like an interview.
[01:33:55] It was kind of like a wide, you want to write type of thing.
[01:33:57] That was the underlying kind of theme of our conversation.
[01:34:01] And I think he wanted to make sure I was doing it for the right reasons.
[01:34:03] And you know, told him the truth about my mom being a librarian and reading all this stuff growing up.
[01:34:07] And all these authors I love and wanting to do this forever.
[01:34:09] And he's like, all right, I'm not going to help you as you go along.
[01:34:13] So don't send me chapters.
[01:34:14] Don't ask me questions.
[01:34:15] But if you write a book, if you finish a book, I will let seven issues
[01:34:19] to know that it's coming.
[01:34:21] Can't guarantee the open it.
[01:34:22] Definitely can't guarantee that they'll like it.
[01:34:24] If they breed it.
[01:34:26] But as a thank you, your friend told me some of things you did in the teams.
[01:34:29] And as a thank you for that.
[01:34:30] I will let them know it's coming.
[01:34:32] And I'm like Roger that.
[01:34:33] And he said, what are you going to be done?
[01:34:34] I said, one year from today.
[01:34:36] And call them back one year to the day later.
[01:34:39] And as I did, you remember me?
[01:34:41] And he sure did.
[01:34:42] And I said, it's done.
[01:34:43] And he said, well, it's done.
[01:34:45] He says the best it can possibly be.
[01:34:47] As like, well, no, no, I can still work on it a little more.
[01:34:51] But it's done.
[01:34:52] He said, well, call me back when it's the best that it can possibly be.
[01:34:56] And I said, Roger that.
[01:34:57] So I took another four months of reading, editing, rewriting,
[01:35:00] getting it to, you know, if you've helped out for 10 years, you could probably make it better by degree.
[01:35:06] But I mean, it was at that stage where it was ready for another set of eyes.
[01:35:10] And call them back four months later.
[01:35:12] And he said, okay, I let my editor know it's coming and ship it off.
[01:35:15] And she read it.
[01:35:16] Next thing, you know, I'm going to play in the York and we're having coffee.
[01:35:19] And I think you want to make sure I was in a crazy person.
[01:35:21] And she said, I want this thing.
[01:35:23] But you need an agent.
[01:35:24] And I'm like, well, how do you get one of those?
[01:35:26] And so she entered his meet a four agents.
[01:35:28] And then I, I chose one next thing.
[01:35:31] You know, we're off to the races.
[01:35:32] So I got very lucky.
[01:35:34] Yeah, that's awesome.
[01:35:36] It does take a little bit of luck.
[01:35:37] How do you actually mechanically write?
[01:35:40] Like, what do you actually do?
[01:35:42] Yep.
[01:35:43] So all those seven different synopsis that I had at the time.
[01:35:47] Where I picked the one.
[01:35:48] Now all those other ones are turning in to these next novels.
[01:35:51] Even though I'm not had different characters or whatever.
[01:35:53] I can morph those ones.
[01:35:54] So I have about seven different novels in the pipe ready to go.
[01:35:57] So start with that idea, the synopsis, like a one-page or two-pager,
[01:36:01] then an outline.
[01:36:02] And then as I write, I fill in that outline because new things.
[01:36:05] Any ideas come up, new chapters, new characters.
[01:36:07] And I added to that outline.
[01:36:08] So that, and it was in Word up until very recently.
[01:36:11] And I, so I have a visual representation.
[01:36:14] What's, what do you switch to for Word?
[01:36:15] To a scriptner.
[01:36:16] Oh, okay.
[01:36:17] We shall get to here in a second.
[01:36:18] Game changing.
[01:36:19] So yeah, in words, your scroll and copying and pasting,
[01:36:23] moving chapters around.
[01:36:24] And then, you know, I don't want to cut.
[01:36:26] And then I have a disappear because the nervous is it backed up?
[01:36:29] Oh my god.
[01:36:30] So, so yeah, so I'm feeling that a little bit paranoid.
[01:36:34] Exactly.
[01:36:35] Don't even cut in face.
[01:36:36] I want to copy it.
[01:36:37] Just in case.
[01:36:38] Just in case.
[01:36:39] The power goes out at that moment.
[01:36:41] Something that I hit the wrong thing and it's gone.
[01:36:43] So, yeah, I fill in that outline till I'd say about 75%.
[01:36:47] And then it becomes not as efficient for me to continue to just have an outline.
[01:36:52] That's now very complete.
[01:36:53] Now, I can just transition to just the story about that point.
[01:36:57] But you know, recently, I found out about this thing,
[01:36:59] Scrivener.
[01:37:00] And that it's set up very much like Word.
[01:37:03] But you, it's broken down by chapter.
[01:37:06] So you can drag and drop chapters and see how it looks.
[01:37:09] You can have each one of those chapters have a synopsis.
[01:37:11] So it shows up as essentially like a car,
[01:37:13] gray yellow sticky, and you're looking at this whole thing.
[01:37:16] And they go, you know what?
[01:37:17] Chapter six should really be Chapter three.
[01:37:19] Drag, drop.
[01:37:20] And you can move in research.
[01:37:22] So you can drag in articles from online, pictures,
[01:37:25] video, into research folders.
[01:37:27] So it's all right there.
[01:37:29] Instead of like, what file was that?
[01:37:30] Did I copy?
[01:37:31] You are like a day late and eight books to late for me at this point.
[01:37:38] Seriously, like that sounds like brilliance.
[01:37:42] Yeah.
[01:37:43] And I could so use that.
[01:37:44] And I just finished my eighth book.
[01:37:47] Nice.
[01:37:48] So that sucks.
[01:37:50] Yeah.
[01:37:51] Well, for nine.
[01:37:52] Yeah.
[01:37:53] And for nine.
[01:37:54] Which I started yesterday.
[01:37:56] Yep.
[01:37:57] And can import from words.
[01:37:58] So I had about half of the, you import from word and it breaks it into chapters.
[01:38:01] You just put an icon and let it know whatever that little symbol is.
[01:38:04] Where you want the chapter breaks.
[01:38:06] And then can you export it back to word?
[01:38:07] And I haven't done that yet.
[01:38:08] So I will be doing that in the next couple of weeks for book three.
[01:38:12] But I have not actually, I've imported from word.
[01:38:15] I've not exported.
[01:38:16] So you can say you can.
[01:38:17] Yep.
[01:38:18] They say you can in the tutorial video and they show you how.
[01:38:20] But I've not done that.
[01:38:21] Check.
[01:38:22] Yeah.
[01:38:23] Yeah.
[01:38:24] I'm all over it.
[01:38:24] Good night.
[01:38:25] I like it word.
[01:38:26] So before we nerd out too hard on this, we'll move under something else.
[01:38:30] Yeah.
[01:38:31] So you get done with these.
[01:38:35] And where did you, I mean, what did you do with your family?
[01:38:37] Once you retired because you have the mission of your kid.
[01:38:40] Yep.
[01:38:41] And your kids.
[01:38:42] You had the mission now that you got to finish this book.
[01:38:44] Did you finish that book while you're still active?
[01:38:46] No.
[01:38:47] So I finished it just a four months afterwards.
[01:38:49] So you set yourself up financially somewhat that you were in a survival scenario even without
[01:38:54] Alternating Compass, I'd your retirement.
[01:38:56] I had other businesses.
[01:38:58] You had some other little, you had some other little side things going on.
[01:39:01] Yeah.
[01:39:02] You've got enough money to float this gig.
[01:39:03] Yep.
[01:39:04] I have an operation in Hawaii, a hunting operation out there with a couple of the partners.
[01:39:08] Every show off in someone who has made these.
[01:39:10] I'm speaking or whatever.
[01:39:11] That sort of thing.
[01:39:12] It's a tactical training.
[01:39:14] A little things like that.
[01:39:16] I was set up to be able to move into this financially.
[01:39:20] And then where did you move to?
[01:39:23] So we got out and we weren't planning on moving because our son, we thought, hey, we have this,
[01:39:27] the support network built up now over the last six, seven years.
[01:39:31] It's here in San Diego and we can never move.
[01:39:34] We can't, we definitely can't go someplace where it's cold because he just lies down.
[01:39:38] And just, anyway, it would be very difficult to take him to a place where it was rainy,
[01:39:42] where it was snowy, where he had to put extra clothes on him.
[01:39:45] Like that sort of thing.
[01:39:46] And then we go to Park City, Utah, the winter after I get out.
[01:39:51] And we took our son on vacation with us for the first time.
[01:39:54] And we started going to Park City during my last couple of years when I'm not.
[01:39:57] So I built up a ton of leave.
[01:39:58] I never took leave in hotels last couple of years.
[01:40:01] Because last couple of years, I'm like, well, I'm not taking guys down range anymore.
[01:40:05] Let's start taking some leave.
[01:40:07] We have all this on the books.
[01:40:08] So we go to Park City with a friend from San Diego because he's easier to fly to Salt Lake and drive to Park City.
[01:40:14] And it was the drive through bands of traffic to get to the mammoth or Big Bear or whatever else.
[01:40:18] So we started doing that last couple of years.
[01:40:21] And then we took our son on vacation with us.
[01:40:23] And then we took someone with us to help.
[01:40:25] So we had an extra set of hands.
[01:40:27] But we got there and we spent two weeks up in Park City.
[01:40:29] And we thought, you know what, we can do this.
[01:40:31] We're not tied to San Diego.
[01:40:33] We brought someone.
[01:40:34] Yes, there was your full time.
[01:40:36] Yes, but we did it.
[01:40:38] And that was like, that opened just three doors for us.
[01:40:42] And that we didn't think we're open to us ever.
[01:40:44] And while we were there, I opened this magazine and said,
[01:40:47] Hey, look at this house around the corner here.
[01:40:49] Let's go check this thing out.
[01:40:50] So we drove around the corner, checked it out.
[01:40:52] And we're like, let's move.
[01:40:53] We decided to ride that in there to move.
[01:40:55] And got the house.
[01:40:57] And six months later we're there.
[01:40:58] And I think it helped to make a physical and psychological break with the military for me.
[01:41:04] Because I was in Coronado and as the opposite of Buds,
[01:41:07] I saw so many guys that couldn't let it go.
[01:41:09] And obviously it's a huge part of who I am.
[01:41:12] It's in my, in my novels and all that stuff is a huge part of me.
[01:41:15] But I saw guys that kept coming back to Buds kept calling me as the obso.
[01:41:18] Can I get a tour?
[01:41:19] I want to show somebody around.
[01:41:20] You know, problem come on in, you know.
[01:41:22] I pull them out.
[01:41:23] But I saw these couldn't let it go.
[01:41:25] Going to all the charity events.
[01:41:27] Going to the same bar is going to the same grocery store, especially in Coronado.
[01:41:31] Yeah.
[01:41:32] So I think for me, it was healthy to say that was one chapter of my life.
[01:41:36] Obviously a huge influence on him.
[01:41:37] I wanted to do it my whole life.
[01:41:39] But now I'm moving forward.
[01:41:40] And now there's a new chapter.
[01:41:42] And that's as an author.
[01:41:43] And that's taking care of my family and raising our kids to be good citizens and good people.
[01:41:48] And that's what I'm going to do next.
[01:41:50] I think it just helped to not run into somebody at the grocery store from a pool to an empty building.
[01:41:54] Who's your CEO?
[01:41:55] What's, you know, and all those sorts of same questions.
[01:41:58] They just keep that tie.
[01:42:00] So being able to say goodbye to San Diego.
[01:42:02] No, San Diego is great to us.
[01:42:03] Love San Diego.
[01:42:04] Love Coronado.
[01:42:05] That was one part of our life in our new life is in the mountains.
[01:42:08] Face in our kids in a ski town.
[01:42:09] And you're super stoked right now on that.
[01:42:12] Yeah, love it over there.
[01:42:14] Love it over there.
[01:42:15] And we got there.
[01:42:16] We drove.
[01:42:17] We put that the you haul.
[01:42:18] Then we drove through the night and all that.
[01:42:20] And we get there.
[01:42:21] 13 hours later because we're chugging along with this you haul.
[01:42:23] And we get unloaded.
[01:42:25] And the next day we go to the grocery store.
[01:42:26] And we look around.
[01:42:27] And we're like, man, people in Park City are in good shape.
[01:42:30] Like we thought we were in pretty good shape in San Diego.
[01:42:32] Like these people are in the same in Park City.
[01:42:34] Just draws these people that want to raise their kids and ski
[01:42:38] towns.
[01:42:39] Usually they've done something somewhere else where they, you know,
[01:42:42] they're not whatever they can live there.
[01:42:44] And they're really into being in shape.
[01:42:47] And being the best people physically mentally spiritually whatever.
[01:42:52] Just being the best, most efficient people they can be.
[01:42:54] And luckily, he had some friends up there already.
[01:42:56] And this insane group of guys that works out the morning wake up at five.
[01:43:00] And once again, that pendulum this last few months has been on the right
[01:43:03] thing.
[01:43:04] But when I first got there, I start working out with these guys that I knew from before.
[01:43:08] And I hope you darling is kind of the lead of that.
[01:43:10] Used to be the CEO of Skull Candy.
[01:43:13] And I see you or he has a bunch of other ventures.
[01:43:16] But this guy is in insane shape.
[01:43:19] And he's there every morning at five thirty with some crazy work out.
[01:43:22] Like picture your hardest crossfit work out.
[01:43:25] And then times it by three or four had some trail running.
[01:43:28] It's crazy.
[01:43:29] And so I showed up with these guys.
[01:43:31] And they're awesome.
[01:43:33] But they're all about just human potential.
[01:43:35] I think is the best way to put it.
[01:43:37] And maximizing that potential.
[01:43:39] Whether it's your family, whether it's in business, personally, whatever.
[01:43:43] Just and stand up to date on the latest and the greatest and test and things out.
[01:43:48] And they're an amazing group of people.
[01:43:50] So I'm very fortunate to get to work out and spend time with them.
[01:43:53] So all high performers.
[01:43:54] We all push each other.
[01:43:55] And even though I'm not the not the fastest anymore.
[01:43:57] Especially with this crew, it's it's cool to get out there and and just be,
[01:44:02] you know, just be together.
[01:44:03] That a little team.
[01:44:05] Awesome.
[01:44:06] Well, I mean, it looks like we're in a pretty good.
[01:44:08] That's that gets us to today, you know, where you're at.
[01:44:12] Probably you could place to wrap the books.
[01:44:15] Tell us just a little bit about the books.
[01:44:17] What do we need to know about book one book two?
[01:44:19] Yeah.
[01:44:20] So the first ones, the terminal list, which I didn't say it out loud for about for the first year I was working on it.
[01:44:26] And I said it out loud for the first time.
[01:44:27] There's two else next to each other.
[01:44:29] And I said it for the first time.
[01:44:30] I was like, dang it.
[01:44:31] Like it's a tough one to say the terminal list.
[01:44:34] But it's based level.
[01:44:36] It is a story of revenge without constraint.
[01:44:38] And that's what I wanted to explore.
[01:44:40] And I think it was a door to team five ops, 1997.
[01:44:44] I saw that it's somebody Syrock's to copy a thing from the brand new internet that had a picture of a samurai on it.
[01:44:54] It said something about a samurai going into battle thinking they were already dead.
[01:44:59] And you know, I went back and looked at a lot of the shuto books from high school and college and thought, oh, they did that because they thought it made a more effective and efficient lawyers.
[01:45:09] They're going into battle already dead.
[01:45:11] So I thought, how do you do that with a modern lawyer?
[01:45:13] How do you do that with someone that has a background similar to mine?
[01:45:16] So I can explore these feelings and emotions behind different experiences that I had downrange and a completely fictional sense.
[01:45:23] How do I make him already dead?
[01:45:25] And then I thought about the church hearings in the late 70s.
[01:45:28] And now the government had tested certain drugs on our nation soldiers on mental patients, mental institutions, college students without any review.
[01:45:38] Any sort of structured in place with how that's going to go down and things changed after that.
[01:45:44] And I thought, what if somebody didn't get that memo?
[01:45:46] But if there was something they wanted to test out, they wanted to test it out on some of our nation's most elite soldiers.
[01:45:51] And then something goes wrong.
[01:45:53] So how do I free this guy up to think he's already dead?
[01:45:56] And they come back and have to use the tactics, techniques and procedures of the enemy on home soil.
[01:46:04] So essentially I wanted someone that thought they were already dead that now gets to bring what was so effective against us in Iraq and Afghanistan to home soil as he works his way up a list,
[01:46:14] putting the bad guys in the ground, one by one.
[01:46:17] So that's really what that first one's about. And then if you dig a little deeper into it more psychological wise, I guess.
[01:46:26] It's about a veteran that comes home and brings the wars from Iraq and Afghanistan home to people that have been sending young men and women to their deaths for close.
[01:46:35] Well, coming up on 20 years now pretty soon.
[01:46:38] So you can read it like that too, but that's deep.
[01:46:42] That's deep.
[01:46:43] So you're going to the words you pick up with true believer.
[01:46:45] So it's a continuation of the story. So in high school I saw it's a it was on PBS and it was a special with Bill Moyers and he had an interview with a guy named Joseph Campbell who wrote a book called the Power of Myth and the hero with a thousand faces.
[01:46:58] And I was fascinated by it because while I already go on to write one day and I remember they talked about George Lucas being influenced by this for Star Wars and the samurai aspect of different things.
[01:47:08] And then how across culture the hero's journey is similar, very similar for the cultures that had never touched each other before.
[01:47:15] Yeah, China, Native American Indian Africa Northern Europe.
[01:47:19] They all had this similar journey. And usually it's a reluctant hero that goes on a journey emerges transformed at the end of that journey.
[01:47:28] So that was a big influence. So as writing these, you have to call Mike in the dragons.
[01:47:33] I was just reading that to Mike in the other night. And yeah, so he has to go, he had to go into the cave and you have to emerge transformed.
[01:47:41] But how do you do that with one book and how do you make that overarching a series as well. So there's two things I think about as I'm writing.
[01:47:47] I think about that hero's journey in the context of one singular story.
[01:47:51] And then over what I hope will be a long term series. So that's what I'm thinking about as I write these things.
[01:47:57] And then true believers, the continuation of that story. But it's was inspired by somebody I met in Iraq in 2006.
[01:48:04] And I thought, what have I made this interaction and what I heard through the great fine later?
[01:48:08] What have I made this a lot more interesting and fictionalized it? And so that's where the second one picks up.
[01:48:13] And it's really a story of redemption. And taking the, still taking the emotions and the feelings,
[01:48:19] and the feelings, by and certain things that happened down range. But also now exploring what that transition was like, because the hero here in the story James Reese has to go through a transformative journey.
[01:48:29] And the second one's all about redemption.
[01:48:32] And when does when does book to when's true believer come out?
[01:48:36] July 30th July 30th. That comes out.
[01:48:38] Internal list is out right now.
[01:48:40] It is out. Yeah, second one should have come out April 2nd.
[01:48:43] But the department of defense took seven months to do a 30 day review sort of make sure I was honoring my former security.
[01:48:48] Clarences by submitting it to the department of defense.
[01:48:51] You just leave the stuff that they tell you to take out or the stuff that they tell you to redact. You just, you just black it out.
[01:48:57] I just black it out. I didn't know if I ride around it. And my still, you just,
[01:49:01] I don't know if one is you did that in true in the terminal list too.
[01:49:03] Yeah.
[01:49:04] When you said it to me, I, you gave me heads up. You said, hey, I just blocked things out.
[01:49:07] And you know, obviously my books have been, well, not my kids books, but my other books have been through the Pentagon review.
[01:49:11] And they tell you that, get removed certain things and we would remove it and change it.
[01:49:15] So it's acceptable to them, but you just blacked it out.
[01:49:18] Yeah, I was worried like if I ride around this and then I publish it and then when they come back and say, well, you didn't quite ride around that enough.
[01:49:26] But you do that just to be cool kind of.
[01:49:28] And it also has a lot of intensity.
[01:49:30] Help with the marketing.
[01:49:32] Yeah.
[01:49:32] And it's like, I mean, I was, I was looking through it and looking at like one, and I can, I can figure out a lot of them.
[01:49:37] I got, oh, they, they didn't want them to say that. Oh, they didn't want them to say that.
[01:49:40] So it's pretty cool. But you can still, I mean, obviously you can still understand all the context around it.
[01:49:44] You just don't know a certain like specific term or a certain specific location or a certain specific name.
[01:49:52] But yeah, that's pretty, that's pretty cool.
[01:49:55] Yeah.
[01:49:56] Cool that you left it in there.
[01:49:57] And the books are available everywhere everywhere.
[01:49:59] Yeah.
[01:50:00] Every audio people love the audio.
[01:50:01] Ray Porter does the audio.
[01:50:02] He's an awesome to do this up for audio book of the year this year.
[01:50:05] So we're in New York and it's up there.
[01:50:06] Well, I texted you because you're out there.
[01:50:08] You're in your, and you're, you're kind of going, so it's texting you.
[01:50:11] I had to go picture the screen and everything.
[01:50:13] But it's cool.
[01:50:14] It's in it up there.
[01:50:14] It's a Stephen King.
[01:50:15] I got like, that was pretty cool.
[01:50:17] That was pretty cool.
[01:50:18] You, to find you, you got your website, which is official jackcard.com.
[01:50:27] That's it because you didn't buy the URL jackcard early.
[01:50:30] I think an insurance guy has it in the asking room.
[01:50:33] Guys holding it for the hostage.
[01:50:35] And you're never going to get it out.
[01:50:37] Well, maybe you will never say never.
[01:50:39] Yeah.
[01:50:40] So that's, yeah, that's a, and that's one that's people want to do.
[01:50:42] And that's people want to geek out a little more on the weapons and knives.
[01:50:46] That sort of thing.
[01:50:47] The website goes deep dives into a lot more of that stuff in the books.
[01:50:51] Because you get your nerd on.
[01:50:52] Yeah.
[01:50:53] You get your weapons nerd on.
[01:50:54] You're like, you bring the librarian of your mom to the, to the, to the, the damn jackcard
[01:51:02] weapons scene.
[01:51:03] That's it.
[01:51:04] That's it.
[01:51:05] So it's on there.
[01:51:06] And then on the, on the socials, which I am very new to.
[01:51:09] I'm about a year and a half into this now.
[01:51:11] It's a jackcard USA.
[01:51:13] You know, the socials.
[01:51:14] And there is a Facebook, but three was just too much.
[01:51:17] Like so somebody else just copies and paste things in from there.
[01:51:21] Into there.
[01:51:21] But on Instagram and Twitter, Jack R USA.
[01:51:24] And there's the ones right interact with the interact.
[01:51:26] You're interacting in the game.
[01:51:27] That's it.
[01:51:28] I'm in on those.
[01:51:28] But three years, just too daunting.
[01:51:29] Just kind of, I know it.
[01:51:30] Nope.
[01:51:31] No, no, prioritize.
[01:51:32] All three.
[01:51:33] Next level.
[01:51:35] I'm crazy like that.
[01:51:37] That's how super motivated.
[01:51:38] I don't have.
[01:51:39] I don't have.
[01:51:41] I'm on three social media platforms.
[01:51:42] Kill me now and well, you know, usually I have a every now and again.
[01:51:45] I have a hard time going to sleep for my mind's racing.
[01:51:47] I'm thinking about all these things, thinking about story line,
[01:51:49] solving problems on the written page.
[01:51:51] Here aggressively, like I used to do on the battlefield.
[01:51:53] But usually I don't have a problem staying the sleep once I get there.
[01:51:57] This morning, up 307 a.m.
[01:52:00] And I'm like, tag and I took a picture of it for you.
[01:52:02] Cause I'm like, oh, did you post it?
[01:52:04] No.
[01:52:05] No, it did it a day.
[01:52:06] So I didn't, you know, I think that would be awesome.
[01:52:08] So I get my my day post on point. Yeah, but I will I will post it. D day awesome. Yeah, so
[01:52:16] I think that's a good place to wrap it. You know echo. Mm-hmm. Jack was just talking about
[01:52:23] Fitness. He's talking about being prepared
[01:52:27] Opened up talking about being a true believer that knows the cause
[01:52:31] Yeah, really. You know what do you know about you know sort of that cause being on the path
[01:52:36] Believe it in it truly yeah, fully. I do want to comment on how you blacked out the classified
[01:52:43] Parts of your book is kind of like in the movies, right?
[01:52:46] Or when they want to you know they show movies on HBO or in the cinema whatever. It's all good
[01:52:52] They put it on USA or one of these you know
[01:52:55] Networks they got edit it right edited for television so there's three ways they do it in the movies
[01:52:59] They either just take out the whole scene which is like what they do with books right sometimes like I
[01:53:04] Guess they could yeah usually change it. Yes, which did you that movie still in the movie version? Yeah, they have a dubbed voice over for the swearing
[01:53:13] Yeah, and every once in a while you have a movie with an actual different scene
[01:53:17] Yeah, if you watch trading places or something on you have actual different scenes like that they read it
[01:53:22] Then the third is the blackout version and what you did which they just blank it out
[01:53:27] So if they're swearing he'll be like what the and the mouth will show it, but they just won't have the audio
[01:53:31] Right to me that's the best way to do it because it keeps you in the story you're like okay
[01:53:36] He's so right there. I get it. You can't swear on tea on this network or whatever
[01:53:40] But in my opinion this the blackout the physical like I just saw it in there it's physically blacked out
[01:53:47] And I highlighted lowlighted. Yeah, if you
[01:53:51] It gives it the mistake
[01:53:53] Kind of like there's something hidden under here. That's class why they can't know
[01:53:56] So classifying yeah, you can't know about you can't even know about it. Yeah, yeah, even even that it's fiction
[01:54:03] Which is even a lot like half level up even from yeah, yeah, like wait a second. They're redacting
[01:54:09] Fiction what is that me
[01:54:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I know that you last when he said like secret because you and I both know what gets redacted
[01:54:19] And it's not really
[01:54:21] I know I built it up too much. Let me talk about it
[01:54:23] It's one of the major was we'll edit this out. Well, it's so well my plan to the first one
[01:54:29] I didn't I didn't appeal so you're gonna year to appeal these things and I didn't do it the first ones
[01:54:34] I didn't have enough money
[01:54:36] So second one though. They took a lot more in this second one and
[01:54:40] I'm appealing this one
[01:54:42] So and what you do for the appeal is you find the information on government websites
[01:54:46] You can't just go to Wikipedia whatever else but on actual government websites in congressional testimony
[01:54:52] Out there via the government
[01:54:55] So repealing this one and almost everything in there except for one little phrase
[01:55:01] We found it on government websites
[01:55:03] So repealing so that if the paper back comes out in this now you can see what the government didn't want you to see
[01:55:08] But it's I don't want to build it up too much because it's really
[01:55:12] It's not as cool as it's all
[01:55:14] No, but
[01:55:16] They took out so surprising as I made up so I made up a location because I'd been there
[01:55:21] Yeah, before I came in the one in the military
[01:55:23] So I used it as a location in the novel because it made sense where it starts second one is kind of starts in Africa
[01:55:28] And then it goes up here and you know goes into whatever but I'm like that's a big good place for kind of the cave
[01:55:35] Gotta go there change gotta transform and
[01:55:37] So I just made it up because I'd been there. I can describe the rocks. I can describe the mountains
[01:55:41] I can describe the architecture so I put it in there. They blacked it all out
[01:55:44] It's totally made up they blacked it all out but they left in by accident the
[01:55:49] The
[01:55:51] The capital of that country. Yeah, so I blacked it out for them
[01:55:56] Knowing in their intent I took it out for them, but they missed that they took out the type of architecture
[01:56:00] They took out the mountains they took out any reference to the country which is so strange
[01:56:05] But they left in by accident the capital and so what that happens right? Yeah
[01:56:09] That's somebody else was up in that cave
[01:56:11] Get yeah, we can't affirmation go it on
[01:56:15] Exactly, through this stranger than fiction
[01:56:17] Yeah, but that's good. That's another selling point in a way when you can say
[01:56:22] This like I'm revealing in this book what the government didn't want you to go back actually. Yep, exactly
[01:56:27] So the paper back to yep, yeah, obviously how goes cool man well
[01:56:32] One day what did you revisit you did to it? What?
[01:56:35] I think you're doing these hard acts about it. They're heavy's right now. I know I know I
[01:56:39] Dabbled through the years
[01:56:41] But I've essentially what I did open tell 95 that's really my base and I got I'm obviously shoot him
[01:56:47] Well, obviously so I'm shoot all the time staying safe that's sort of thing, but
[01:56:51] The jujitsu is whatever I am right now that is where my
[01:56:55] Markle ground fighting skills are going to remain
[01:56:58] Wait, why are you committing to that right? Yeah
[01:57:01] So what is my surgery to just time wise and knowing where my focus needs to be right now
[01:57:07] So what do you think's worse for your spine?
[01:57:10] Clean in jerks or
[01:57:12] grappling clean jerks. I would have to agree really. I don't actually think clean jerks are bad for your spine
[01:57:18] I think they're good for your spine
[01:57:20] But grappling
[01:57:21] You actually that's see this is the delve into how you get your information for your little books
[01:57:27] Right? Oh yeah, you sent me a text whatever a two years ago. Hey if a guy was in Virginia
[01:57:33] One to train with like the best
[01:57:35] On the east coast
[01:57:37] Where were we going train? You help you send me that text. I'm like send the hands
[01:57:41] Okay, sure did you got right back to me. I appreciate it
[01:57:45] And went right in the book. That's these guys just research you've ever done. Oh, it's great
[01:57:49] It's Draco perfect
[01:57:51] Yep, and it made it right in the book and I moved on
[01:57:53] My little bad when people text me and I don't text them back like right away
[01:57:57] Oh really so you must feel real bad with me then
[01:58:00] Yeah, I do the whole right away
[01:58:01] Hey, it's real foreign I mean, but sometimes it just doesn't like get it a lot of texts and like you got us at there and
[01:58:06] You know, but I try and text people back eventually or you might need to hit me with a little follow-up
[01:58:12] or you'll follow up
[01:58:15] Well, hey um
[01:58:16] Well doing you just to impeeking at 95 stay in there is better than not picking to do so not
[01:58:21] We're about the kids were in it. Yeah, right away daughter in it from
[01:58:28] Oh, just in the game right now in
[01:58:30] We are
[01:58:31] We're not so now we're in need to talk. Yeah, so she's in the snowboarding now in tennis
[01:58:38] So she turned 13. That's cool. Everything but I think age 11. I'm maybe 12 11. I think she might have stopped
[01:58:44] kind of yeah
[01:58:46] It's tough. I was tough
[01:58:48] Is there just to in Park City?
[01:58:50] I know there's full on just to and Utah you got Pedro's sour up there
[01:58:54] You got all kinds of good just to people up in Salt Lake City. Yeah, for sure. Yep. No, we sure do and there's one
[01:58:59] I think Pedro's sour has I think a little offsite in Park City may very lead
[01:59:04] So of course we checked it out before the move
[01:59:06] They've moved sand so I haven't followed where they moved to but I think there's one still there
[01:59:11] But because it was important to me because at the time we moved my daughter was still in it
[01:59:14] Our little guy was in it all right your old now at your old
[01:59:18] So it was important to me that there was due to where we were moving and but now that we moved
[01:59:22] I would get there and it's gone. It's just like an empty space. So I think it's still there somewhere
[01:59:26] But the kids I can't either doing their things unfortunately
[01:59:31] There's a lot to do lots to do up there but we know I dabble over the over the years was still doing it well
[01:59:35] I was an opso or NNX always but before I got out in Coronado because it was right there
[01:59:40] I go at lunch and roll with some guys
[01:59:42] I'll be some researching I think that where we can get you get you and your family back in the game up and so up in Park City
[01:59:48] Because I personally feel like guilty to have your family not training to have you not training
[01:59:54] You're taking some extreme ownership of your car
[01:59:58] You're taking some extreme ownership of that
[02:00:00] Rees needs to get in the game. Yeah, in the story. You know the fictionalized
[02:00:05] James Reese is on it
[02:00:06] Yeah, you said you got a get you know you talk about transferring those emotions right
[02:00:11] Real world. I remember how you never like to get you know just thrown around the mat
[02:00:16] The floor wiped with you know yeah, I was worried that's why didn't tell you I was coming in last night
[02:00:20] I know I said it I didn't I was worried that I'd be up at three something getting just destroyed on the mat
[02:00:27] Here, yeah, we're just in the is out so you know
[02:00:30] That knee is rapidly
[02:00:33] Yeah, approaching yeah, and it's been rapidly for a long time
[02:00:37] That's not so
[02:00:38] All good and we're gonna look forward to that so
[02:00:41] Back to you just to when you get back and you just you're gonna need a key or if you're getting them too
[02:00:46] Just for the first time you're gonna need a key dokey no, gee do both that's the best 100%
[02:00:51] See if you're a park city you talk if you get no fighting park city you talk the other person is almost guaranteed to be wearing
[02:00:58] a deep out
[02:01:00] Yeah, that's too long straight up wearing a jacket
[02:01:04] Straight up wearing a North Face
[02:01:07] Parker right just patagonia boom
[02:01:10] It's very possible. It was a galipel on a patagonia jacket. Yeah, let's get some of that
[02:01:17] What's the patagonia jacket? It's just a jacket. It's like a parka. There's another had explained to me what a parka was on one podcast
[02:01:24] Wow, yeah, I don't know
[02:01:28] Nonetheless sounds nice sounds good similar to a githop good all right?
[02:01:33] We're gonna do gui what kind of gui we're gonna get? Do you know I know
[02:01:36] Orgian or you can get it the better any 100% there's only one best one in the world why would you not get the best one in the world?
[02:01:42] There's no 100% get the best one in the world is it because the best one costs five times more than the not best one?
[02:01:49] No or is it all the same?
[02:01:52] No same same cost while you can choose you can grab the the big dillocks
[02:01:57] What do you call what's the word you always do you not always be for you?
[02:02:01] Look, you're yes, I love you
[02:02:02] Yes, unless you can grab that one if you want good good up to you or jinkies and various
[02:02:07] What do you call like options of keys all made America though by the way speaking of made America you can other clothes made in America
[02:02:17] Namely
[02:02:18] T-shirts yeah sure, but also sweatshirts yeah, and also
[02:02:23] newest latest jeans
[02:02:26] Which I have someone the way by the way
[02:02:28] I'm sure now finally be little we teamed up with teamed up. Yeah, we're the link
[02:02:34] We're in a secondary group me and be little Brian little field
[02:02:38] And you know, we're tight work in the game whatever, right?
[02:02:41] But we're always last to get the cool new stuff. Jockel always first Pete always first right us always we're not even second
[02:02:48] We're not even third we're last every time the last we've been together and now I have a pair of origin jeans
[02:02:53] Made in America American denim jeans on the way to me so nice happy that now it's down to everyone
[02:03:00] Also
[02:03:01] Rash guards the first other jeezes to stuff so also supplements
[02:03:06] The most important kind of supplements boom joints keep you in the game protein keep you in the game
[02:03:11] The white is Jockel white tears supplement. Yes
[02:03:14] Yeah, because it has to be a supplement because what else would give you
[02:03:18] But 8,000 pound dead luck. Yeah, you're absolutely right nothing and it's certified organic so the whole water thing
[02:03:25] No, how do you like your first Jockel white team?
[02:03:27] I love Jockel white. Yeah, I couldn't do the podcast without having one so some people some people don't it's not sweet
[02:03:33] You know, there's no sugar in there. Nope. It's just tea. It's great, but it tastes but it has the
[02:03:39] Pama granite little fruit nest to it. Get you one more. Yes, yeah, I mean you want more
[02:03:44] No, I'm a big fan. Oh big fan. I'm not to you know you should give some of those apart dead lift and then go right
[02:03:50] Cuz whenever I whenever I write that's guaranteed right that's guaranteed like at least 300 words coming to coming out to your life
[02:03:57] Easy smooth
[02:03:59] I get into the computer my marching orders
[02:04:03] Also discipline by the way speaking of writing. Oh, that's a good one. I found and I don't write as much
[02:04:09] Is you you might not have known that, but you know, but I make these videos every month's a while if you're on the discipline
[02:04:16] It is awesome even that kind of comes a lot easier
[02:04:21] My favorite one we lie to ourselves
[02:04:24] Yeah, yeah, that is a good one that is a good one. Yeah, I cured representation
[02:04:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah, can't grow otherwise it's true. So I'll fully true. But yeah, discipline that's a good one and discipline go
[02:04:34] If you don't want to you know mix it up and do all that stuff if you're on the go essentially, right? That's what that's what it goes
[02:04:42] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, then you just go you get more which is
[02:04:47] Additional protein for your life because we all know we're eating steak
[02:04:52] Read check and some people are eating sushi. Yes, sir. We are a lot of
[02:04:57] That all good you protein which is good some guys need a little bit more or some of you just want it
[02:05:00] It's a dessert straight up have you tried the I have not yet so looking forward to it though
[02:05:08] Just just it's ridiculous you ever had a nestle strawberry quick
[02:05:12] Yes, it's been a long time. I did you like it. I was yes
[02:05:16] I like the chocolate one. I think though. Okay. You like the chocolate. That's yep some people are like that
[02:05:20] Never try them both, but I go back to the chocolate. Yeah
[02:05:23] strawberry
[02:05:24] Slayer
[02:05:26] Moch tastes absolutely delicious. I know we have warrior kid milk so for you kids. Yeah, yep, it's totally good to go
[02:05:32] I keep meaning to get that too because our kids man they do not anyway. Yeah, yeah, because your kids want to eat
[02:05:38] cake they want to drink
[02:05:40] Nestle is quick because it's tasty delicious. I don't have to do that. No, they can get protein
[02:05:45] I'm gonna get this and they push her or no sugar
[02:05:49] What's up in the tasteless all right cool so there's that warrior kid milk milk and then if you want like this
[02:05:55] shirt that echoes wearing this good shirt
[02:05:59] In the good at our store collectively everyone's this isn't enough because you keep calling it my store
[02:06:05] It's not my store. What has your name in it? Yeah, no, but everybody goes there
[02:06:09] Not just me in the store by myself. The store is for everyone. Yep, right? It's true. Yeah
[02:06:14] Now your store is not my store. It's our store collectively as a group the jack car store
[02:06:18] Yeah, absolutely
[02:06:20] Yeah, yeah, so that is that jocco store dot com if you want to represent on this path right just when it comes freedom
[02:06:28] Good mentality, right looking for the good in the bad quote on quote bad. Yeah, you know whatever you want to
[02:06:34] Repetit them that's where you get your stuff speaking of which you were talking jocco
[02:06:38] Wait, I don't know if you saw this damn Tom Clancy fan that you are did you see that in the latest Tom Clancy novel
[02:06:45] The Jack Ryan you know what he drinks. Oh, I saw this. Yeah, I didn't read it, but I saw it
[02:06:53] Somebody posted about it. Yeah, sure. I put it out there. Yeah, jocco. I saw that. Yep
[02:06:58] Jack Ryan's in the game. We're wondering what James Reese is going to be drinking in book three
[02:07:05] Yeah, what he's gonna be wearing. I know what he's gonna be wearing. Yeah, well, he's definitely we know he's he's gonna be wearing
[02:07:10] Like the warrior kid of three bucks. You know what he's like he's won't be in war orange nice, yeah
[02:07:16] There you go, so yeah everybody's representing so yeah you want to represent even if you're already representing
[02:07:21] You want to re-re-represent represent more jocco store dot com oh ladies t-shirts, redskirts, hats, everything patches
[02:07:28] Everything subscribe to this podcast so you can hear jack car and
[02:07:32] Others talking about their experiences and then leave reviews so that I can laugh at your funny reviews or be like
[02:07:39] Did you ever had nod to your computer? Like you're looking at your computer you read you read a
[02:07:47] Solid review and you just give that review a little a little and actually little and I had nod for that thing
[02:07:53] Like somebody wrote a damn good review the other day and I read and I was like
[02:07:57] You know given one of those physical movement at my computer
[02:08:01] 11 o'clock at night. What am I doing reading reviews trying to go to sleep?
[02:08:05] You're talking about how you know, but I'm gonna save some of that deal. No, I have some trouble going to sleep
[02:08:09] Well, I've trouble going to sleep not wait. It's a it's trouble waking up. Oh, yeah, you have trouble waking up. Yeah
[02:08:14] I mean, I'd rather sleep in but I do get up
[02:08:18] Well, that 5 a.m. It comes quick. Yeah
[02:08:20] 5 a.m. I'm not a 3 a.m. Like you would 5 a.m. with the guys at 5 30 knock it out home at 7 help with the kids
[02:08:26] Then start writing yeah, that's solid right there
[02:08:29] If you want stuff for your crew up there nice get them in the game awesome
[02:08:34] Yeah, yeah, they had nod that's like level one like like what do you call like there's base level respect
[02:08:44] There's extra respect and then there's the ceiling above the ceiling there's level one respect when your physical head nods for computer
[02:08:50] Yeah
[02:08:51] Level two claps
[02:08:53] Claps for you these seams and you you clap for the for the performer
[02:08:57] But that's that's different bro
[02:08:58] No, I would never in a million years clap. I'm like
[02:09:01] I know because I don't think I don't know about that's level two but someone's gonna come up with a like a review or something and it'll warn a clap
[02:09:08] That's my attention
[02:09:10] Yeah, I had a good one in I know yesterday
[02:09:13] Good, it'll head nod. Yeah, you computer. Yeah, somebody wrote
[02:09:16] Jack Carr has a graduate degree in the art of war
[02:09:20] And I was like
[02:09:22] Gahana
[02:09:24] Puzzle fed not out
[02:09:26] Someone else said one round yeah
[02:09:28] That's something else we're at one about it if John Wick the Punisher and somebody else had a child would be James Reese
[02:09:32] Oh my god, it's going
[02:09:33] Yeah
[02:09:35] This hell
[02:09:35] No, where the 100% help yeah, man, so yeah, subscribe if you're into it and you want to ready to review you do it also
[02:09:42] Don't forget about where your kid podcast which is not dead. No, it's it's it's been
[02:09:47] Resirect well, it was never dead. So they resurrected no, yeah, it is alive and well
[02:09:53] Yeah, however there hasn't been a lot of new additions lately, but they're coming
[02:09:58] They're coming boom. There you go. So I was mentally going through
[02:10:04] Possibilities for the next story from Uncle Jake
[02:10:08] So yeah, so the pendulum was just a way yeah, the pendulum's away from where your kid podcast
[02:10:15] actually
[02:10:16] Now that book eight is
[02:10:18] Almost wrapped that's what that's what the that's what the prioritize next good is all just gonna say
[02:10:23] You beat me till I wait and begin in there with paradise next kill yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly
[02:10:28] That's where your kid podcast and and if you want to support a warrior kid
[02:10:32] then you can get some
[02:10:35] Jocco soap
[02:10:37] Warrior kid soap
[02:10:38] For virus or orange dot com young aiden or your kid making soap and don't forget about YouTube channel
[02:10:45] Don't forget to like subscribe and click what are they saying?
[02:10:52] What do they say?
[02:10:54] I think they say like subscribe and no wait yeah something like that. There's some other thing that you're supposed to do
[02:11:00] If you're that okay, so anyway, try to YouTube channel. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So if you want to do those things whatever
[02:11:07] And that's where you can get echoes echoes videos that he spends allegedly so much time making
[02:11:12] But once every every four years like the Olympics
[02:11:18] Like the linear Olympics in Park City every four years a good video is gonna come out
[02:11:23] Whatever Jack Car like some soap. I do I repost it down on
[02:11:26] Repost it we lie to ourselves
[02:11:28] Oh, there you go see things thanks for that by the way. All right. Also psycho a little warfare
[02:11:33] Go ahead. No, I'm giving it to you. I put your name there psychological warfare
[02:11:38] You don't know what that is. This is what it is an album with tracks
[02:11:40] Jocco chat anyway. He tea on those tracks he tells you how to give through moments of weakness like if you're about to eat the wrong thing
[02:11:49] Because for the short term because the short game long game you can't listen to this
[02:11:53] Oh, yeah, and it 100% works by the way. So if you're like okay, I'm gonna
[02:11:57] In life this is what I learned one of the biggest things people ask me this all time
[02:12:01] I would say literally anyone who has questions quote unquote for me. This is one of the questions they'll ask
[02:12:05] What's the biggest thing you learn from jocco? I'll tell you right now. Here it is
[02:12:09] If you look at things
[02:12:12] Short term versus long term small picture big picture oh and then there's like another one
[02:12:16] Whatever, but either way, it's all the same thing short term so in psychological warfare if you're going short game if you're gonna start playing the short game for that moment
[02:12:23] This will if you're gonna lose the short game in the moment
[02:12:27] Yes, you're just any if you're gonna if you're gonna take a short term short term have immediate gratification
[02:12:31] But it's a long term down. Yes, exactly right and most of the time not all the time
[02:12:36] But most of the time short term if you play short short game you lose the long game with that play
[02:12:41] It's like you take a short term step forward and take a long step back. It's one of those deals usually you can break things down into that
[02:12:48] So this what this does I'm getting that because I need to listen to that one my whole foods and I'm getting up there
[02:12:53] Ready to get to that register and they have those peanut butter cups
[02:12:57] All natural
[02:12:59] Natural that's okay
[02:13:01] Exactly all that or is Reese's I'm gonna all natural heroine is all natural
[02:13:10] What are we doing over here? Yeah, let's get a listen to that as I'm checking out
[02:13:13] That's perfect actually because actually it's good because you can actually have it in the queue
[02:13:17] You know because a lot of times like you just in the pantry wherever you are and you're like boom
[02:13:22] I'm looking for the good stuff that ever boom. I see the the Oreos
[02:13:25] Bro, my I can't just go let me queue it up sometimes it gets hard. It's a little bit bro my son. Okay
[02:13:31] Can drive now right which means he can go to the store?
[02:13:35] Which means he can shop for food right? We're talking 16-year-old boy
[02:13:40] What does he get at the store?
[02:13:42] Just work
[02:13:44] Oh, he just gets crazy
[02:13:46] You know, so good he'll be like I'm hungry going to the store comes home. What does he come home with?
[02:13:52] Half gallon of whatever ice cream makes sense
[02:13:56] But because you know the supermarket's they they they formulate or they design
[02:14:00] Yeah, store in the product of certain way so like boom boom that's why they put the Reese's pin
[02:14:05] But right at the at the checkout. They call impulse buys right and that goes for everything little
[02:14:10] Machines and balloons and all that is that's their psychological warfare
[02:14:14] That's what it is. It's their psychological warfare. And you got combat that
[02:14:18] Yeah, with psychological warfare. Yeah, but thank you meet the flanking. Oh, I see
[02:14:24] Can I get a boy the aisle freaking away the aisle? Yeah, you can snack
[02:14:28] I'll you're not even gonna be check out but you got to check out and that's where they got them that's your weakness bro
[02:14:34] So good, but that's what your boy is essentially falling for when he goes in
[02:14:40] That's where you're wrong. He's going up there on the
[02:14:42] Yeah, he's going to his land. He's leaving the house and he's thinking the brothers
[02:14:48] Yeah, okay, that's what he's doing
[02:14:51] He goes and gets gays like
[02:14:54] The plan is actually honestly the ice cream thing is really taking a down hit at my house because malt right because everyone just kind of on the malt
[02:15:01] Yeah, but like but
[02:15:03] My son will get straight up chocolate chip cookies just that's what he did last night
[02:15:07] That's why this is fresh in my mind comes home nine o'clock goes the store at eight
[02:15:12] Forty like we already ate dinner
[02:15:15] Okay, where are you going? Oh, it's gonna move the store and he's only thinking about one thing
[02:15:18] He's not thinking about lettuce
[02:15:21] He's been thinking about apples he's thinking chocolate chip cookies coming back with the big chunks in them like the premium
[02:15:28] Yeah, and then the evil little kid brings him into my house
[02:15:33] You know, I mean it's a good way to get shanked actually
[02:15:36] He needs a psychological work. Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah big time
[02:15:41] I probably get to the home all the time. Hey, if you want to go visual
[02:15:45] Visual psychological warfare for yourself check out flipside canvas dot com my brother Dakota Meyer
[02:15:53] Who's awesome
[02:15:55] veteran
[02:15:56] Marine
[02:15:58] Incredible guy started this company
[02:16:00] Making art to hang on your wall and you can it says cool stuff on it like good like this when it goes freedom
[02:16:08] He's got a whole array of different stuff so check that out
[02:16:11] Flipside canvas dot com and if you want him to make something tweet him
[02:16:16] Yeah, quick tweet the Dakota Meyer say put this on a canvas
[02:16:20] You'll figure it out. You make it happen. So true also on it
[02:16:23] So you're gonna on it dot com slash chocolate. This is where you can get your kettlebells you getting kettlebells
[02:16:28] You know on it. Oh, yeah, you know what those there before you guys work out the home gym where you guys work it out now
[02:16:33] No, no, we go down that it's really cool. They have a full on like CrossFit type setup at the gym and they're in door track
[02:16:39] There's it's amazing
[02:16:41] Right there, but it's full on like CrossFit as a thing and you can go get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah
[02:16:47] Yep, to bull
[02:16:48] I think that's what no chalk was allowed
[02:16:51] Really, this is what Jim
[02:16:53] Section he talking talk about it. What the whole town numbers is
[02:16:56] It was a drop or Jim. Hey, it was a Jim that had bumper plates. It was a Jim that had
[02:17:02] Six squat racks
[02:17:04] No four squat no six squat racks. I'm in this Jim no chalk if they have bumpers
[02:17:10] They have that's how they're bells no chalk they have pull a bar's no chalk. That's a real problem
[02:17:16] I can see like a you know, hey, if you're a little bit of our fitness
[02:17:20] You got the the universal machines or whatever that goes out there jamming up. Yeah
[02:17:28] Not nothing gets universal by the way, but you know, let's keep it real anyway
[02:17:34] Onic kettlebells you see you know, yeah, so that's where I give my kettlebells kettlebell routine in generals good
[02:17:40] Do kettlebell on a kill yeah, what mode is as far as your spine and whatever and I was gonna ask you earlier
[02:17:45] But what um what is that like keep you from doing mainly well I wake up like it hurts all the time
[02:17:52] But every time I perm my head and I realize just how lucky I am that after 20 years and all those things like that's all
[02:17:59] I have to deal with so it's mobility it hurts whatever surgery
[02:18:04] But C67 spine
[02:18:07] No the military wanted to fuse me but luckily I had a got a second opinion and they went in and shaved off a
[02:18:12] Bowling spur in there that was crushing a nerve to make it my left arm was it like a frame anonomy
[02:18:16] I don't think they've used that term. That's what I got but
[02:18:20] C67 yeah, C67 got to go back in there, but every time it hurts
[02:18:24] I'm just like you know there's guys out there for PTSD TBI miss an arms and legs just destroyed and
[02:18:30] This all I have and hey good
[02:18:34] I'm seriously
[02:18:36] Absolutely
[02:18:37] So I'm gonna keep me from doing anything just reminds me so I use it as a here is a reminder
[02:18:41] That I like very lucky very fortunate so you can you can push it but just not get nuts. Yeah, yeah, I still got you know
[02:18:47] I keep try to keep up and yeah, anything I'm trying to take it easy on goes out the window
[02:18:52] Right, yeah, just like let's just roll it 20% yeah, yeah, let's roll I remember those yeah
[02:18:56] Exactly, yeah, not happening
[02:18:58] So I remember well yeah good then kettlebells right? Yeah, my point was you do kettlebells
[02:19:03] You get that functional strength back whatever boom non-peel that means you're backed up or
[02:19:07] Habiting boom you're into kettlebells. Yep, absolutely almost every day when we're working out with the crew
[02:19:12] Well, yeah, yeah, all my kettlebells all on it kettlebells and we got some books if you want books if you like books first of all
[02:19:18] the terminal list and true believer by Jack car check those out get into the
[02:19:25] I believe you just said like the psychological mine field
[02:19:30] Like it of this dude. Yeah, who's on the serious warpath already dead
[02:19:35] Yeah, yeah, yeah, so way the warrior kid three is out its live
[02:19:41] And you can get that on Amazon dot com where there's a will is the subtitle of that book
[02:19:48] Find out what happens to young mark how Uncle J. K.
[02:19:52] Up's about way the warrior kid one and then way the warrior kid do marks mission those are also available
[02:19:56] Mikey in the dragons you can get that one for any kid between the ages of
[02:20:01] Zero and 150 and they're gonna get something out of it the discipline equals freedom field manual get that
[02:20:08] That's what you want to get your kid that just graduated. That's what you want to get your employee that seems to be sliding off the track
[02:20:13] That's what you want to get your friend that is let themselves go down the slippery slope yes
[02:20:19] Taking the short term gratification on stuff. No you get him the discipline equals freedom field manual
[02:20:24] the
[02:20:25] audio version of that is on iTunes Amazon music. It's an MP3 format
[02:20:30] Then there's extreme ownership and the economy leadership where you can take these lessons from combat
[02:20:35] Me and my brother life, bab and wrote that book those books and how you can apply those lessons
[02:20:41] To your business to your life. We got echelon front leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through
[02:20:47] Leadership we also have EF online where you can
[02:20:50] You can continue to train leadership because you never master it you never you never even really get good at it
[02:20:59] It's you always have to be working at it. So EF online work at it work at it every day
[02:21:05] What happens if you stop working out do you stay in shape echo Charles?
[02:21:08] Negative what happens if you stop trying to become a good leader?
[02:21:12] Same thing you go backwards. Get rusty first beyond rusty. Yeah, we're talking catastrophic. Just lose it. Yeah
[02:21:19] Yeah, we're talking to a leadership slob. Yes, you don't want no you want to be sharp you want to be in tune
[02:21:27] I I experience this because I get to see it all the time with the companies we were like I see someone that's like really in the game and they're
[02:21:34] Sharp yeah, they're their their leadership is sharp and then all of a sudden
[02:21:38] They slack off for a while and they have a leadership problem and they handle it wrong
[02:21:42] Just like they couldn't match they couldn't do 42 pull-ups like they could before now they're doing 32
[02:21:47] Why they haven't been trained got to keep your leadership brain sharp you've been 40 to pull-ups
[02:21:53] No like my mine was 30 something was my was my best I think still good man 30 something
[02:21:58] But in high school when I was very very light. I'm a two sets of 20. I still remember that was my thing
[02:22:02] Come on like two sets of two that's what's interesting
[02:22:05] That was getting ready for bud essentially that was high school
[02:22:08] But so I still had a little time. Yeah, I was still trying what I was gonna say is like for me getting ready for buds
[02:22:13] Was I was like bro, I did I did three sets of pull-ups today because we didn't know
[02:22:18] I think I didn't need to do 250 pull-ups for work out
[02:22:22] 350 pull-ups work out. I didn't think of that it didn't even make sense to me right it was 19
[02:22:27] It was 1989 1990 well it was there was no way to access this information
[02:22:33] No, so you're not going to be doing the same number of pull-ups as your class number. Yeah
[02:22:37] Yeah, how many that's what we're gonna do yeah, by the way
[02:22:40] We're doing it tomorrow too
[02:22:41] But we're gonna have to lunch so get some of that so that's the same thing physical mental get your leadership
[02:22:48] Mind set sharp keep it sharp EF online if you want to come to the master you better sign up now because they're all sold out
[02:22:55] They they all sell out very quickly Chicago sold out Denver's heading that way
[02:23:00] That's September 19th and 20th and then Sydney, Australia
[02:23:04] Looking forward to that coming down and meeting all people in Australia again
[02:23:10] If you want to come to that extreme ownership dot com and then EF overwatch if you are looking for someone in your company that knows how to lead
[02:23:19] Then check out EF overwatch dot com where we got special operators and we got combat eviation
[02:23:25] Leaders that are transitioning into this filling sector and can help you and your team using the principles of
[02:23:31] Combat leadership that we write about in extreme ownership and the economy of leadership. So
[02:23:36] EF overwatch dot com
[02:23:38] And if you want to hear more from us
[02:23:40] If five hundred hours of listening isn't enough then we are on the inner webs
[02:23:48] Twitter Instagram and
[02:23:50] Facebook
[02:23:52] Key
[02:23:54] Ecos adeclotarals. I'm at jockelwink and jack is at jack car
[02:24:00] USA
[02:24:01] Echo anything else nothing else. Thank you jack car. Thank you guys so much for having me on it's a pleasure there
[02:24:07] I feel very fortunate that getting out
[02:24:10] We were able to kind of make the life we want on the outside
[02:24:14] Kind of to five u-ods along the way and that's all because because my life
[02:24:19] 19 come up in 19 years out state this month and
[02:24:23] Yeah, so because of her strength raising those kids allows away now. I can tell by a little bit. Hopefully not mess it up
[02:24:29] Got getting into her routine, but yeah, she's amazing super strong
[02:24:33] Love her from my heart my next this next mission in life really is all about her and them
[02:24:38] That's awesome. Well
[02:24:41] Thanks once again for coming on and obviously thanks for your service
[02:24:46] To America as the healers you had you had an awesome awesome
[02:24:51] Run and you were deployed over and over and over again and even though we joke about you know
[02:24:57] What a good time it is and we did have a good time
[02:25:00] I know you had a good time, but at the same time, you know you're making sacrifices your family's home alone and
[02:25:06] And that's huge so thanks to you. Thanks to your family. Thanks your wife for for
[02:25:11] Having the strength to deal with that and appreciate you and and it's awesome to see what you're doing right now
[02:25:17] Thanks, brother. Appreciate it to anyone else that's listening that is serving right now or has served
[02:25:25] thanks to you for keeping us free
[02:25:28] and
[02:25:30] To police and to law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service
[02:25:38] and all the first responders that are out there 24 hours a day and
[02:25:43] They're training and they're preparing and they're on call
[02:25:47] So that we can be safe here at home thanks to all of you for that service and for that sacrifice
[02:25:54] into everyone else that is
[02:25:56] listening
[02:26:00] Remember that
[02:26:02] There's always somebody out there with their sights on you
[02:26:06] And maybe it's a competitor in business. Maybe it's an enemy in surgeon
[02:26:12] Maybe it's some criminal fog maybe it's someone that's just looking to do harm to you or your family
[02:26:20] Or maybe
[02:26:22] Maybe that someone is you and
[02:26:26] Maybe your your own worst enemy
[02:26:30] Slighting into the depths of complacency allowing yourself to wander down the easy path
[02:26:40] Say no to that
[02:26:44] Remember why you're here remember
[02:26:46] what you want to do remember your cause
[02:26:49] Be a true believer and then live that belief
[02:26:58] By getting up every day
[02:27:02] Then getting after it
[02:27:04] And until next time this is Jack car and echo and jacco out