Jocko Podcast 173 w/ Ron Shurer, Medal Of Honor Recipient: Fighting Up-Hill Battles.

2019-04-19T00:10:32Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @ron_shurer @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:03:10 - Ron Shurer.  Medal Of Honor. Life, battle, Lessons. 2:34:29 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 2:41:17 - Support: How to Stay On THE PATH. JOCKO STORE Apparel: https://www.jockostore.com/collection... All Supplements: https://originmaine.com/origin-usa/nu... Origin Gis: https://originmaine.com/origin-usa/bj... Onnit Stuff: http://www.onnit.com/jocko Jocko White Tea: http://www.jockotea.com 3:07:40 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

I was just it's one of those days like it's bad as it was you know you knew just an inch this way I think we'd done the math before and it was like we came up with like eight inches or something I if the enemy just could move a bullet eight inches over the course of the day like move this bullet one inch this way move this bullet this way whatever they you know what of just killed everybody like when like guys got shot through the his camel back you know it first that it hit like he had a flare in the back there it had done that but that you just inch that Dylan who had the bullet skimmed between his armor and his his gear he moved that I mean like he says in there it definitely it definitely got to the point where like okay this is this is the day uh I don't know how everybody kind of just processed that um I know for me there was a point where I just set a quick prayer just asking God help my wife Miranda and our our son who at the time was a couple of days shy of three months old uh just make sure they're cool with with what's about to happen and then just go back to work and just you know taking it in little chunks it's it's too big to try and think of a week of over the course the day man the four US critical three other US wounded 2k AA about 13, 14, 15 afghan commandos interpreters wounded so you know in just terms of those numbers that's too much to deal with but if I just you know this is the worst thing and going on right now I'm going to deal with this and then come up for air look around that's now the worst thing so you know my wife has you know multiple full-time jobs you're trying to keep those kids you know where they need to be when they need to be there like with the secret service um I can't remember these exact day count but the last year I was like fully able to travel in for the extra level like a hundred and thirty days or something and you know at least well like the military time deployments like you're gonna leave in August and you know we let lower him down the hill and as we're kind of finishing that up like all of the amulatory commando and interpreter cash please they're kind of working their way down through all this as well set Howard and Matt Williams are kind of mentioned earlier like they came through right behind us just kicking off everybody else that had not got the message it was time to go or like CK who would you know been killed they got they got they got him off for us the the I can commando you know just I don't really have a great plan for we got him off yeah he's dropping bombs danger close dropping 2000 pounder I mean it's dropping the stuff and again you know why I'm talking about this as if I know who's what it looks like because I saw you can watch these videos and you can see the bombs hitting in massive hitting that castle and massive bombs hitting that castle and even even the bombs hit that castle they they do damage but that castle was massive and crazy you know we ended up through the course of the day one of our Afghans broke his leg the the wood framing on a building they got blown up broke his leg so we gotta deal with that you're getting just all the other wounds that are coming with those because this is massive debris is coming down on you guys from those danger close hits bomb drops and like debris is coming down on you guys because you guys are below it down a cliff right at at one point I don't remember exactly where in the sequence of events basically I could say we kind of had that wall on our left that went straight up and there was there was a a building there and they were getting in that and starting to shoot down at us and so that had to go away so Zach ended up calling in a strike hit that and you know the cancer fight is not like combat where you get to go punch somebody in the face or shoot somebody in the face and and have that like the the cancer fight is you know getting up and eating when you don't want to eat so last thing in the world you want to do or you got to work out well let's just go for a walk you know like just just those things I just want to you know have a moment to be able to anybody's being affected by that just say you know you're you're not alone and then you know we just unfortunately with it's a little cover as we had for anything like he couldn't take up space where we had cover so we we just kind of had him off to the side a little bit but exposed to the elements because you know unfortunately the living guys didn't have enough space so after checking on him I kind of go back through and obviously this entire time we're still getting shot at you can still feel those spults gone by you can still feel the dirt kicking up you know there's just everything so tight in there and so little space like I'm trying to kneel over these guys to do the best I can't for them and and as things are just falling on us trying to cover them as things you know just rocks are coming down as close as they're happening just trying to get yeah so I of course had heard about the review process that the Secretary defense had ordered never gave it a second thought just what's going about my day-to-day life I mean honestly I think like most soft guys like just to add a boy and here's your next mission that's all any of them expect or want or everything so in August of last year I get the first call on on my home phone because you know you still have a one it's part of that triple play package you know they get you with the home phone like I don't want a home phone they're like because more do not have it like the landline you know the FBI the secret service the DEA marshals air marshals everybody and very quickly on I really just liked the personality like came with the secret service the the attitude that the people had the dedication of the job the focus in a lot of ways you know like like like SF like you have super important mission sometimes you have all the resources you need sometimes you don't you're still gonna figure it out you're still gonna you're still gonna make it work I really liked that personality that came with it so while everybody showed interest in me I kind of focused there so like hey can you come to DC on a top of first because I'm getting them out of the water and like I felt like I had to apologize to them like the team was amazing that day the team did everything and a lot of these guys you know kept going for years and years after I got out like I don't know why I'm getting this and everybody's just hanging on that tiny little bit of the slope trying to not fall off and not get job and the the guys had been shot when they on that slope when they got shot are they pushing up a little bit were you were you somewhat safe in that shot were you in that spot were you somewhat protect your was the guys still getting I guess they weren't because you still guys were getting shot no guys were still still getting shot so we're basically you're just trying to use that tiny bit of an angle to minimize how much you can be shot at there was there was no place where you were safe on there at all if you kind of picture like from from from that little outcropping where we were if you're looking at the main village it was almost like like a like a hockey stick kind of in front of you as the way the mountain kind of wrapped around but he's fine the chest plate did a good job he's he's obviously gonna feel that for a few days so I go back keep trying to package up these guys a little bit more and we're just you know it's it's tough not to gloss over like minor wounds like you know this guy just got more sharp no ones like quick check you're fine move on one of our commandos at some point in all of this another one of our commandos got shot in the head and he dropped instantly and like well that dude's 100% dead and that's when they find about tumors just everywhere what they decided was the primary tumors about the size of a little bigger than a baseball on my left long um and by that point like I started thinking like with all the work that I would do like I'm just getting out of shape like my run times keep getting a little worse but at no point did I think that's what it was so we find out like through that MRI like I'd actually I had a fracture on my pelvis just had a baseball on my lung and a fracture on my pelvis still working and you know I'm not just you know saying this because I'm on your show like I I've been listening to your your podcasts for a long time I I've listened to many different episodes but there's one in particular where you you know you do the book views and uh the a man search for meaning you did that one I think like two or three months after I died diagnosed and that was I mean I like to think I'm a determined guy and like I can focus through stuff so yeah basically told Ryan you're good have a nice day and grab my stuff just start working towards the mountain our team team sergeant Scott Ford and one of the the weapons guys Matt Williams they started organizing a response force to get up there and start flexing a little more muscle up on the hill so there they're organizing that my focus is hey I need to go so you know hit the mountain start working start my way up the same terraced features that I talked about before and you know it is climbing hand over you know hand over hand your literally climbing get up to the next terrace figure out how much are we being shot out right now whereas it coming from where's the next place I can go up and just start working our way up as we went up you know the the other support LMA kind of got got with me and then then next day waiting on results I still flat to actually fly out to San Diego to do to do some more work and that afternoon after I got here he called and he was you know telling us well you have a few different use of word lesions you know once I tell you where is what he's like you got a few things going on your hip that I know normal I need you to go talk to this dock like as soon as you can he didn't even tell me like what the what that dock did but you feel like you kind of are Wolverine like you when you get you know how like me anyway when I get hurt we're like dinged up on like dang how long am I out now you know a week two weeks so I did as I just kind of started pouring that on the wound and then taking my fingers and shoving it into the wound because the wound was so small and three wounds are yeah not big so just started shoving that in there trying to get as much in as I could just repeating that process over and over until I felt like my head enough I don't know just it was just kind of gut call shoving fingers in your body to be like hopefully this will help and wrapped him up as well as I could and so while I'm doing this that's when the lead element started to get back towards us and they were gonna help us start to get these guys out of there and within moments minutes whatever it was of them getting getting there that's when we took our next American cashity John Walding been hit mother right rightly just below the knee basically stampitated is like right away I was hanging on by a little bit and so he meets us in there he's like you know how I run Miranda thanks for coming in we really appreciate it John Kelly wants to talk to you guys so of course Miranda and I are kind of looking at each other like trying to do like Hansi knows like in kind of what where we we landed is like I think I always felt like there was something I was supposed to do and that seemed like it's good a good thing to check a block with this as I could I could think of it's so many different like factors coming at like I there's not a day that goes by that I don't still miss the team so wish whenever I hear their out there like I wish I was there with them I wish I was you know still doing it you know like right now from the global war on terrorism we've been fighting for 17 straight years like green berets you know that's that's where my heart is like they've been just out there getting it on the entire time my it's mind boggling to me that I am the only living recipient right now representing that group Rob Robbie Miller who was in Alpha 33 was on the same deployment as me he here in the metal oven in January of 2008 probably taken the fight to the enemy but unfortunately he was he was the first green beret in this war and now in the second button the first two can actually get out there and share a share my story not so you can be like so is it like a gentleman's course boot camp scenario or for the most part you know coming from from the SF background like I don't know who we need to kick out you got to kick out somebody right just to make sure that everybody else who's here knows like you know it could happen to you yeah you know what else is crazy is I just you know like echo doesn't ever write anything down during these things and you made that statement like probably like 45 minutes ago but echo has just been sitting there thinking like dang but when I was talking my wife you know my wife has been talking to your wife and I said something along the lines of like oh you know what we'll talk about you know and using the secret to the secret service and my wife said in my wife's a Brit so she isn't like fully comprehend American government like an American does we go down back back to the infel point get them the helicopters leave wind in a planning it's some fire base I don't even know where it was we don't know if we're going back there's another SF team there we still got a lot of commandos so we're like back in the game are we gonna go I linked up with the the the medical support that was there refit my bag got got everything ready to go again like we were gonna go right back yeah my wife and son moved out there right away we bought a house you know while I take me to live there I was off a training for several months and then I joined them as soon as I finished up and I spent basically the next four years in Phoenix from May 2010 to May 2014 doing whatever financial crime or so financial crime includes what you have you know you credit card fraud you're counterfitting I need to get your number because credit card fraud people are all about you know coming after me it's like open access and that's what and when I talk to people like like yes I'm still good for my call I'm gonna run out of battery though if you keep calling me the check if my good for my my call or not so a little while later I boss calls back again and he's like your call is canceled like why are you cancel my call and you know just trying to run through all the scenarios you're had like what why are you doing anything with this

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Pontcast number 173.
[00:00:03] With echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink.
[00:00:06] Good evening, echo.
[00:00:07] Good evening.
[00:00:11] Sure, analyze the wound.
[00:00:15] Wallen was bleeding from his neck.
[00:00:17] So he pulled out gauze and started examining the wound to assess the damage.
[00:00:22] Wallen's airway looked fine.
[00:00:24] There was no vascular damage.
[00:00:26] The medic could tell that the wound wasn't life threatening.
[00:00:29] But the blood was still flowing.
[00:00:31] You're going to be okay, he said.
[00:00:34] Rapping gauze on the wound.
[00:00:36] He began exerting pressure to stop the bleeding.
[00:00:38] Are you sure?
[00:00:39] Wallen asked?
[00:00:40] Yes, I'm sure.
[00:00:42] The fire was nonstop.
[00:00:45] Sure didn't think it could get much worse.
[00:00:48] Until he heard a frantic call from Walton on the radio.
[00:00:52] Bear, Morales and C.K. had been hit and they needed sure up there fast.
[00:00:58] Did you hear that?
[00:00:59] Wallen asked?
[00:01:00] Yeah, I heard it.
[00:01:01] Sure, I said.
[00:01:05] His bleeding was minimal.
[00:01:06] I'm good, Wallen said.
[00:01:08] Go get them.
[00:01:10] Getting to Walton's team, though, posed a great risk.
[00:01:14] A medic is taught not to put himself in any unnecessary danger.
[00:01:18] He has to stay alive so other soldiers can live.
[00:01:23] But it had reached a point in the battle where he had to go.
[00:01:28] Or sure, grabbed his bag and headed into the fire.
[00:01:38] And that is a passage from a book called No Way Out, a story of Valor in the Mountains
[00:01:44] of Afghanistan by an author named Mitch Weiss.
[00:01:48] And it tells the story of the men of operational detachment, Alpha 3336, it's a special forces
[00:01:56] odied team going after a high value target in the shock valley in Afghanistan.
[00:02:03] But when they got on the ground for this mission, they were in a bad tactical position.
[00:02:12] They were outnumbered.
[00:02:13] They were outgunned.
[00:02:15] But they did have one thing that could not be beaten.
[00:02:19] And that was the will to survive.
[00:02:20] And the bonds of brotherhood that could not be broken.
[00:02:26] And on top of those things, there was incredible courage on display from all the men of the
[00:02:31] team above and beyond the Call of Duty and one of those men, the medic, Ron Scher,
[00:02:39] not only against the enemy, but fought to save the lives of his teammates.
[00:02:47] And it is an absolute honor to have Ron here with us tonight to share some of the lessons
[00:02:55] from that day in Afghanistan and from the rest of the things that he's been through
[00:03:02] and lived through on his journey through life.
[00:03:08] So Ron, thanks for coming on, man.
[00:03:11] No, thanks so much for having me.
[00:03:13] I've honestly been a fan of the show for a long time.
[00:03:16] And you know, when you guys offered kind of weird to think about coming on, but it's
[00:03:24] definitely a pleasure.
[00:03:25] Well, man, it's great to meet you.
[00:03:27] And we'll get to shock Valley.
[00:03:30] But let's figure out a little bit about who you were, where you came from, how you grew
[00:03:36] up.
[00:03:37] I know one interesting fact to start this thing off is that you were born on December 7th,
[00:03:42] Pearl Harbor Day.
[00:03:43] I was born December 7th, obviously a few years later than in 1941.
[00:03:49] But yeah, I grew up with that.
[00:03:51] For some reason, my parents always thought it was a good idea to like get me news articles
[00:03:55] or other reporting from Pearl Harbor and just as like a six or seven year old, okay, read
[00:04:01] this.
[00:04:02] I don't know why, but yeah, it always just, you know, was something that we talked about
[00:04:09] as part of my birthday.
[00:04:13] And happy birthday.
[00:04:14] Let me tell you about Pearl Harbor side.
[00:04:16] Exactly.
[00:04:17] Yeah.
[00:04:18] And then your grandfather, was your grandfather in your grandfather's serve?
[00:04:22] My grandfather did serve.
[00:04:23] He was in the Navy.
[00:04:24] So he was in the Pacific for some years.
[00:04:27] He, I'm trying to remember, he was on the smaller aircraft carriers that they had on the
[00:04:34] Pacific.
[00:04:35] So he's on several of those aircraft cancels in, you know, doggian comocosies and for
[00:04:40] sure.
[00:04:41] Another thing.
[00:04:42] I got a bunch of books on, in cue from World War II sailors in World War II.
[00:04:47] Those books are absolutely insane.
[00:04:49] And what those guys live through was horrific.
[00:04:53] I, I look at that.
[00:04:55] And maybe this is just me.
[00:04:56] I don't know how you feel.
[00:04:59] If given the option of being in an engine room on a, on a destroyer in World War II,
[00:05:06] hot, sweating and by the way, comocosies, like you said, or two of Peter's going to slam
[00:05:11] into you at any time, there's nothing you can do about it.
[00:05:14] Versus storming the beach, I'll storm the beach all day long.
[00:05:17] Like that's me.
[00:05:18] I don't know.
[00:05:19] Oh, 100%.
[00:05:20] How would rather, you know, in, you know, land warfare combat?
[00:05:25] Like if you're in a shoot me, I get a chance to show you back and maybe this will work
[00:05:29] out my way, maybe it works out your way.
[00:05:31] But we throw water in and all those other other pressures like no thanks.
[00:05:35] So I'll pass.
[00:05:36] Yeah, I know I owe, I owe it to those sailors to cover some of those books, man.
[00:05:41] Those are those books.
[00:05:42] But, you know, with your, with your grandfather, I mean, just to live through that, I can't
[00:05:46] even imagine coming back from that, what your normal life is like after you've lived
[00:05:50] through World War II as a, as a sailor in the Pacific theater.
[00:05:55] Oh, man.
[00:05:56] Crazy.
[00:05:57] Yeah, my grandfather, he served in the Pacific.
[00:06:00] My great grandfather was in World War I, shooting our cellary at the Germans.
[00:06:07] So the family history and, and we have something to tell me, history goes back all the
[00:06:13] way to civil war.
[00:06:14] It gets a little, you know, a little more like cousin level and every other hair.
[00:06:18] But yeah, they, we've been, we've been fighting wars for this country for a long time.
[00:06:23] And in both your parents as well.
[00:06:24] Both my parents were in the air force.
[00:06:26] That's where they actually met was in the air force.
[00:06:29] And yeah, we've just had that family history of service.
[00:06:33] That was pretty normal.
[00:06:34] And where were they stationed?
[00:06:35] Would you spend most of your childhood?
[00:06:38] I think like most military, you know, kids, you know, I was born in Alaska, but then
[00:06:46] moved to Illinois.
[00:06:47] Don't remember any of either of those places.
[00:06:50] First place I remember is Mountain Home Idaho, which is just a tiny little place about
[00:06:56] an hour south of Boise.
[00:06:58] And then from there, I kind of what we call Washington State home, because I spent fourth
[00:07:04] grade on growing up in Washington.
[00:07:05] Oh, okay, so a big chunk of time there.
[00:07:07] Yeah, my dad and I were hiring in, I was saying 91 from the air force.
[00:07:13] And then we just kind of stayed there afterwards.
[00:07:17] And you were the only child.
[00:07:19] Yeah.
[00:07:20] So that means those birthdays were especially heavy.
[00:07:24] Right?
[00:07:25] You're like, you're a celebrate.
[00:07:26] I got four kids.
[00:07:27] I know you got two kids.
[00:07:28] I got four kids.
[00:07:29] And you know, you can have a birthday.
[00:07:30] And you don't even, am I a bad parent?
[00:07:33] I don't know.
[00:07:34] Probably.
[00:07:35] Yeah.
[00:07:36] Probably.
[00:07:37] Do anything for my birthday?
[00:07:38] I don't know.
[00:07:39] When's your birthday today?
[00:07:40] Oh, okay.
[00:07:41] Anyways.
[00:07:42] It's true.
[00:07:43] My wife blows it out for our kids, but she's great at that.
[00:07:47] Yeah.
[00:07:48] I just kind of go along for the ride.
[00:07:49] And my wife doesn't much better job than I do as well.
[00:07:52] I'm the person that's looking at the whole situation saying, what is this stuff hanging
[00:07:55] up for?
[00:07:56] Oh.
[00:07:57] What did I get him?
[00:07:58] I'm first birthday.
[00:08:00] Yeah.
[00:08:02] And then, so going to school, what are you playing sports?
[00:08:05] What were you doing?
[00:08:06] What was your gig in school?
[00:08:09] I played the usual sports growing up being a soccer baseball.
[00:08:14] What I really kind of gravitated towards is I kept growing up was your endurance sports.
[00:08:22] So I started.
[00:08:23] My dad was doing triathlon.
[00:08:24] So I started doing that.
[00:08:25] Oh, your dad was doing triathlon.
[00:08:27] So yeah.
[00:08:28] He did many triathons.
[00:08:30] He did the Canadian Iron Man a couple of times.
[00:08:33] And so kind of grew up watching that.
[00:08:34] So I started with the triathons in high school.
[00:08:38] And then, pretty quickly switched over to just cycling, road racing, cycling.
[00:08:42] And I know, I think those four, five, six hour days on a bike got me ready for.
[00:08:49] Yes.
[00:08:50] No, it's a train.
[00:08:51] I just know your name on a bike, right?
[00:08:53] Right.
[00:08:54] I've never raised a bike before.
[00:08:55] But I know guys that race bike.
[00:08:57] And it's just pain.
[00:08:58] It's just how much pain can you take, right?
[00:09:00] Basically.
[00:09:01] So long stretch of road and just keep on riding.
[00:09:06] And apparently you've gotten some kind of crash.
[00:09:09] Like him.
[00:09:11] Oh, several times.
[00:09:13] Well, I know that I know that there's a little disruption in your plans because you
[00:09:18] get done with high school and you want to join the Marine Corps or you get done with
[00:09:21] college you want to join the Marine Corps.
[00:09:22] Okay.
[00:09:23] So yeah, I went to Washington State University.
[00:09:26] I was getting ready to graduate in the spring of 2001.
[00:09:31] And so started talking to a Marine Corps officer recruiter.
[00:09:37] Went to that process.
[00:09:38] How did your mom and dad feel about that?
[00:09:40] They were.
[00:09:41] Because that's face it.
[00:09:42] Air Force is one side of this spectrum.
[00:09:43] Marine Corps is on the other side of the side of the group.
[00:09:47] At least, at least I was going to, I was talking about the officer sign on.
[00:09:52] And I later said, hey, I'm joining the Army and listed, then they just lost them there.
[00:09:58] Like what are you doing?
[00:10:00] You just.
[00:10:02] But yeah, so those getting ready to graduate Washington State.
[00:10:06] Start talking to the Marine Corps and went through the process.
[00:10:10] We basically that was accepted through the Marine Corps program to go to OCS starting
[00:10:17] in October of 2001.
[00:10:20] But the Navy Medical Board had seen what they thought was a flag on my medical records from
[00:10:28] being hit by a car in 1995.
[00:10:31] And sorry, I never spent a day in the hospital back then with pancreatitis, which usually
[00:10:38] would be considered or related to drug abuse, alcoholism, just something serious.
[00:10:45] Or we have some serious medical condition.
[00:10:48] And so because that, they told me no, in August of 2001, that now we're good.
[00:10:54] We don't need anybody.
[00:10:58] So yeah, kind of got less doubt to drive there and then.
[00:11:02] So then what was your plan?
[00:11:04] From there, I started to graduate school and I got on.
[00:11:06] Which was your original degree in?
[00:11:08] I was business economics.
[00:11:09] Did you, did you, were you getting that degree?
[00:11:11] But you knew you wanted to go in the military?
[00:11:13] I mean, you, you ordered you, get down with your degree and say, oh, no, what am I going
[00:11:16] to do now?
[00:11:17] Maybe I'm going to the Marine Corps.
[00:11:18] A little bit of both.
[00:11:22] So service was definitely always a part of our family life growing up.
[00:11:28] And so it was definitely in the back of my mind.
[00:11:31] I need to give back, do something for the country.
[00:11:36] Never quite knew what.
[00:11:38] And then, yeah, trying to go to OCS, just seeing like something to do for a while and give
[00:11:46] back and then when that didn't work out, I started graduate school to use that as kind of
[00:11:55] a reset time, I figured out, okay, that's not working out now.
[00:11:58] What can I do?
[00:12:00] And, you know, it was a few weeks into that that 9-11 happened and then we had to revisit
[00:12:07] the decisions again.
[00:12:08] And so then what did you do once, what's September 11th happened?
[00:12:13] Yeah, I wasn't graduate school for economics and I spent in spending that first year continuing
[00:12:22] with education and just watching it on TV and just didn't feel right to just sit there
[00:12:32] and watch it.
[00:12:35] So try to figure out what made sense at that point to do.
[00:12:42] And then for some reason, it was thing in the army, sounded like a good idea.
[00:12:48] So that summer of 2002, I went down an army recruiter and of course at that time, they're
[00:12:55] like sure, we'll take it.
[00:12:56] We can scratch that.
[00:12:58] We don't get what medical artists do.
[00:13:00] We're good.
[00:13:01] That's over here.
[00:13:04] Now did you, did you know you wanted to try for us at that point?
[00:13:09] They, they talked to me about going in with SF contract and it definitely sounded interesting.
[00:13:18] But, and I'll part of me just didn't feel like, like, oh, I could be an SF guy because
[00:13:29] I mean, I grow up just like everybody watching Rambo, you're watching other things like
[00:13:33] that's what a green beret is like.
[00:13:35] I'm certainly don't fit that mold.
[00:13:38] But, so they talked about that, but I was like, well, let me get in.
[00:13:43] Let me get some experience in the military and then we'll go from there.
[00:13:48] So I signed up to be a medic who did basic training.
[00:13:52] Oh, I'm pretty in the name right now, Fort Jackson, South Carolina and then went off to Fort
[00:13:59] Sam Houston and then went to Airborne School and along that way, I got, I ended up getting
[00:14:05] myself a Ranger contract to try and go to the Center for the Rangers.
[00:14:13] So at some point you realized, all right, I'm going to step up and try and go to a little
[00:14:18] bit more special operation site.
[00:14:20] Something got in your head at some point.
[00:14:21] Yeah, something got in my head.
[00:14:25] And if I remember correctly, I think it was orders to Korea.
[00:14:29] And that was my, the first thing that came through.
[00:14:33] Like, let me see what else I could do.
[00:14:36] So I talked to the recruiters got the Ranger, I don't know if it was a contract at that
[00:14:44] point, but I got that set up.
[00:14:46] So it might be different now, but after Airborne School, any infantry guys or medics or
[00:14:54] whoever's trying to go to the Ranger, you go out the next day, wait on the little lines
[00:15:01] out there at Airborne School and they'd come by, they'd look through your paperwork, pick
[00:15:05] you up and then take you over.
[00:15:08] So they come out, they start flipping through everybody's stuff and they get to mine and
[00:15:14] they start looking at my paperwork, which is still the same paperwork from trying to do
[00:15:19] them, Marine Corps, OCS thing.
[00:15:21] And so, of course, it's a disaster.
[00:15:25] It's, you know, not physically qualified, but then there's lines through that, waivers and
[00:15:30] arrows and just don't sense, but they look at that and they're like, well, you're not
[00:15:36] physically qualified to be here.
[00:15:40] And so they just kind of dropped my paperwork, took everybody else and left me, left
[00:15:45] me stand in there.
[00:15:47] So now I had to revisit what to do again.
[00:15:52] So I ended up spending a few weeks sitting there at Bronze School, just kind of being, you
[00:15:59] know, a little, you know, whatever they needed done that sucked, they'd make me do,
[00:16:06] while I waited on new orders to go somewhere.
[00:16:09] So yeah, we did, I did that for a little while and I finally got orders up to Fort Bragg
[00:16:17] to go to the 44th Medical Command.
[00:16:22] And so while I was, you know, packing up all my stuff, head up to Fort Bragg, and fortunately
[00:16:29] my, my medical records got lost along the way.
[00:16:33] Did you say fortunately?
[00:16:35] Unfortunately.
[00:16:36] I'm a specialist in the army, you know, I don't want to lose stuff and show up, but it
[00:16:41] got lost along the way.
[00:16:44] So, got my medical paperwork read done, none of that.
[00:16:49] Wow.
[00:16:50] None of those waivers or anything.
[00:16:53] Got all that situated, reported to my unit on, I think it was a Thursday, some Thursday
[00:17:01] and August have been 23 at that point.
[00:17:05] And that's because those, those army, the medic schools are a long time basically.
[00:17:10] So at this point you'd been through boot camp, army boot camp, and then you went to,
[00:17:16] to be a medic, how long is the training to be like an infantry medic?
[00:17:20] The medic was four months.
[00:17:21] Yeah, okay.
[00:17:22] So I, yeah, did basic, I did the the medic school, and then, yeah, an airborne school,
[00:17:29] and then that interim time while they tried to figure out something to do with me.
[00:17:33] And so I showed up to my unit and after you in process in August of 2003, you know,
[00:17:41] that first day we do PT, then the first sergeant calls me in, like, hey, what do you
[00:17:44] want to do with your life?
[00:17:47] And then I'll put it in an SF packet, try this, try something else again, and, and again,
[00:17:53] the thing that's true, what's driving you to do that?
[00:17:55] Like, did you see some SF guys, did you talk to some SF guys, did you watch Rambo again?
[00:18:00] What was the persuading of accurate?
[00:18:03] I don't know, I think it was, I'm mixture of a lot of different emotions and, like,
[00:18:17] I had nothing to validate my feelings because I was just some specialist in the army,
[00:18:23] but I was like, I think I'm pretty good at this stuff.
[00:18:26] So let me, let me try and push myself a little bit harder and try and find something else
[00:18:32] to do.
[00:18:33] So I put in for SF.
[00:18:35] There's a guy named Travis Mills, he wrote a Travis Mills, he's an awesome guy,
[00:18:39] but he, he, he was on the podcast and he's a, he's a quadruple amputee and he's like,
[00:18:46] the, uh, got the, the damn spirit of a freaking, like the ultimate human being warrior.
[00:18:54] But anyways, when he was growing up, he played varsity, football and basketball, whatever
[00:18:59] he played every sport, he broke all these records, he was this big strapping guy, like
[00:19:04] a total, just a total stud.
[00:19:09] And, you know, I asked him, I said, well, you know, how can we didn't try for ranching?
[00:19:12] So he said, he, he's like, I, or why don't you try for special forces?
[00:19:16] He's like, I didn't think I could make it.
[00:19:18] And there's like this thing where like for me, I, I'm, I'm, I'm one eighth of the athlete
[00:19:25] and the physical specimen that Travis Mills is, but I was just dumber.
[00:19:30] I was just dumb enough to say, oh, I think I can make a piece of straightening, bring it
[00:19:34] on, you know, he was too smart to say, you know, he was too smart and then he was too
[00:19:39] humble, really, too humble because I had some level of arrogance in me and I think there's
[00:19:43] a difference between, because that happens on a fairly regular basis, you know, special
[00:19:48] operations and special forces has this kind of mythical buildup where people start to
[00:19:55] think, well, I don't know if I can actually make it through that, it's got to be so hard.
[00:19:59] Whereas I'm always looking to be like, oh, you were a wrestler or, oh, you played football,
[00:20:02] varsity football in your high school or you, you swam on the swim team or whatever,
[00:20:07] it'll be fine, like you can do it, but people build it up to that mythical level that
[00:20:12] you don't think you can make it.
[00:20:13] So the reason I was asking that, because it sounds like you made a transition from, I don't
[00:20:17] know if I can do that and then once you're there and you're looking around, you're
[00:20:19] going, you know what I think I can actually do that.
[00:20:21] You got, you either got Dumber, it's going to be that.
[00:20:26] Yeah, or you just got more, you know, and that's what I think it is.
[00:20:29] I think it is, you know, you see yourself in comparison with everyone else's there and
[00:20:34] you go, okay, cool, I'm, I'm hanging with these guys.
[00:20:36] I can probably make this happen.
[00:20:37] So, no, that's cool, that's cool.
[00:20:40] Yeah, and so, I mean, I say, now we're talking, that fall 2003, so I've gained a sense,
[00:20:51] rolling I rack is, is going, at that time, the, the unit I was in, there's a medical
[00:20:57] sport company.
[00:20:58] They weren't even supposed to deploy, think the calendar had them going on like 2005.
[00:21:04] So, like, you're like, that's a lifetime.
[00:21:07] I came all the way here.
[00:21:09] It's not go anywhere, so, so I put in for selection, we got, we got, got those medical records
[00:21:17] are redone.
[00:21:18] So, I go, so I went in January of 2004 to selection and, I was talking about that more,
[00:21:27] but when I came back, then my unit is all in Desert Camouflage Uniforms and, like, guys,
[00:21:33] gone somewhere and there, I got things changed in those three weeks, you were gone, we're
[00:21:38] going in like four weeks.
[00:21:39] Oh, dang.
[00:21:40] So, so you went to special, so they send you, they send you like TAD to special forces
[00:21:45] selection, is that what happens?
[00:21:46] Like, temporary, they don't transfer you there permanently, they just send you for a, correct.
[00:21:50] For the, for the three weeks selection process, you just get temperatures over, you do
[00:21:56] your thing, if you get selected, then you wait for orders to go full time to the Q-course.
[00:22:02] And then that initial selection is just like a beat down.
[00:22:05] Yeah, three weeks, you know, probably not a different than most selections for different
[00:22:13] soft units around the world.
[00:22:14] You know, walk in the woods with heavy bags, get lost, and then we're going to make
[00:22:18] you carry heavy stuff and remember logs, a lot of logs, and then he did carry it permanently,
[00:22:25] they didn't belong over here, they belonged over there.
[00:22:28] Yeah, how did you do in that, did you feel alright?
[00:22:32] I mean, honestly, I didn't know what I was getting myself into, so I obviously passed,
[00:22:41] I got selected, but I didn't feel like I was where I wanted to be for that process.
[00:22:47] I mean, it definitely beat me up more than I thought it should, and it helped reset me.
[00:22:54] So I spent the next couple of months when I was getting ready for those orders, really resetting
[00:23:00] the way I was training was getting, getting myself mentally prepared for it.
[00:23:05] And so once I got to the face two of the course, I thought that was.
[00:23:11] How's it going to you?
[00:23:12] You were a little older, because you did college.
[00:23:15] And this was 2004, so I was at that point, 25.
[00:23:20] Dang, was that older for maybe 20?
[00:23:23] Yeah, that was going through.
[00:23:25] Not for special forces.
[00:23:29] I was definitely one of the oldest guys at basic training when I was going through, but for
[00:23:37] special forces, it tends to be those, all the guys who've been in the Army for a little
[00:23:42] while have seen stuff got some experience, and then decided they wanted to explore some
[00:23:47] different routes.
[00:23:48] So you come back from the initial selection course and all your guys from Desert Gaming,
[00:23:53] and they're going to end up deploying quickly.
[00:23:55] They deployed a couple weeks later.
[00:23:57] Dang, the,
[00:23:58] do they deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan?
[00:24:00] They went to Iraq.
[00:24:01] Do they, do they, they run the cash in Baghdad?
[00:24:06] Some of them were, they're our East doing, I want to say they were doing Prisoner.
[00:24:11] For.
[00:24:12] Uh, you know, DTI support.
[00:24:16] Operations or whatever.
[00:24:17] Not there are some of the prisons.
[00:24:19] Luckily, uh, my company commander pulled me in in their office, and basically said, yeah,
[00:24:26] you're on these orders.
[00:24:29] But if you want to, if you want to go pursue something else, I see some value in that.
[00:24:35] So if you want to go, you can go.
[00:24:38] And so your company commander took care of you and said you can go to the Q course.
[00:24:41] Yeah.
[00:24:42] That's awesome.
[00:24:43] You know what's cool about that is that guy just leaves a good impression on you about
[00:24:48] the Army.
[00:24:49] What I mean, I always think that when I was a young, enlisted guy and somebody could
[00:24:54] either, you know, maybe screw you over as a hard term, but, you know, some could either
[00:24:59] look out for you or just kind of let the big green machine do its thing.
[00:25:03] And when someone actually looks out for you, just gives you such a much better appreciation
[00:25:07] and connection to, you know, like I had guys that looked out for me when I was a new guy.
[00:25:13] And I was that, that just heightens your commitment to the team, you know, that there's
[00:25:18] people like that.
[00:25:19] Whereas the people that try and, you know, you're just going to do this anyways, need
[00:25:23] to the Navy.
[00:25:24] That's what they say.
[00:25:25] In the Navy, they say needs of the Navy.
[00:25:27] Yeah.
[00:25:28] Those are the needs of the Navy, so get it.
[00:25:30] Well, and you're going to get some.
[00:25:32] And so after my company deployed, basically our, our battalion had four companies, two
[00:25:37] deployed, two stayed behind.
[00:25:39] So we kind of fell under the two that had stayed behind.
[00:25:44] And there were some people over there who had that attitude of, you think you're better
[00:25:48] than us.
[00:25:49] I like, I don't.
[00:25:50] I'm just trying something different.
[00:25:51] And so they made life interesting for a little while, but we got through it.
[00:25:58] And then so what did you train?
[00:25:59] What did you change differently about your training?
[00:26:01] When you learned from selection like, okay, I need to work on hump and rock more or whatever.
[00:26:06] What was the, what were the big things that you learned you needed to work on?
[00:26:09] Uh, more weight and moving faster.
[00:26:16] Yeah.
[00:26:17] Yeah.
[00:26:18] I mean, I'm not a big guy.
[00:26:19] I'm five six at the time.
[00:26:20] I went to selection.
[00:26:21] I think I was about 135 pounds.
[00:26:24] So you put on that way.
[00:26:25] And it's, it's a lot.
[00:26:26] So I put on some more weight.
[00:26:28] I just got a little more used to moving with that.
[00:26:33] Because you got to carry, doesn't matter if you weigh, 220 pounds or 120 pounds.
[00:26:36] You got to carry the same weight.
[00:26:38] Right.
[00:26:39] Yeah, the packing list is what it is, the minimum weight for the day is what it is,
[00:26:42] as a matter if you're six foot three or five foot six.
[00:26:46] You're just going to go get some.
[00:26:49] And then how was the Q course?
[00:26:51] Q are since Elvira.
[00:26:52] I thought was really, really good course.
[00:26:54] I thought it, I thought it did a great job getting you ready for things I had no experience in.
[00:27:02] So it's all, it's all changed around a little bit.
[00:27:06] Since then, but so for me, when I showed up, you have three of a small unit.
[00:27:11] It's tactics, a portion, basically learn how to, you know, be an infantryman, which is from being a medic.
[00:27:19] I mean, I had the basic training experience, but I didn't know anything.
[00:27:22] Really about that.
[00:27:23] So we spent about a month and a half.
[00:27:25] She learning how to move with a small unit.
[00:27:30] You know, just the basic military drills break contact, initiate ambushes, those things.
[00:27:35] And then from there, we started the medical course, which for SMatics is a year.
[00:27:43] Basically, just learning every single thing they could teach us in a year.
[00:27:50] Of course, trauma, medicine, heavily enforced.
[00:27:55] And then, you know, just all the weird and random diseases you might see around the world.
[00:28:03] I actually met my future wife during the medic course.
[00:28:08] And so when I go see her on the weekends, I'd pull out medical manuals and be like,
[00:28:15] I start, you know, start grilling me on these things.
[00:28:18] And so she pretends she had whatever random disease you could get from around the world.
[00:28:24] It was pretty fun day nights.
[00:28:26] It over.
[00:28:27] I don't know why she, and she put up with it, but she did.
[00:28:31] And so where were you when you, where's that chunk of the course take place?
[00:28:37] Is that's 18 Delta, right?
[00:28:39] Yeah, 18 Delta.
[00:28:41] In the course, all the SF core, the Q course was all based at Fort Bragg.
[00:28:46] So I was already at Fort Bragg, so really, much had a move across post when I started.
[00:28:52] And then.
[00:28:53] Are they, when you're going through 18 Delta, are they still, are you still doing tactical physical
[00:28:59] solutions?
[00:29:00] Or is it like really starting to get focused on classroom, really focused on the medical aspect of
[00:29:06] stuff?
[00:29:07] There's a lot of classroom stuff because they got a lot of stuff.
[00:29:11] Yeah, you got a lot of stuff.
[00:29:12] They got a lot of stuff.
[00:29:13] Teach you, but they do, they also do a great job of pulling out the woods.
[00:29:18] And.
[00:29:20] I can't remember all the different segments of the course.
[00:29:24] We have a comment at trauma lanes.
[00:29:25] You have just so many different portions where you get used to training people out in, out
[00:29:31] on the dirt.
[00:29:32] And I remember.
[00:29:35] Sorry, I think I started that course in August, September of 2004.
[00:29:42] And so we were rolling through the winter.
[00:29:45] And I still just think they remember being out in the woods in January when it's like
[00:29:50] 15 degrees and you're the patient.
[00:29:52] And you know, like somebody's working on you.
[00:29:54] You know, to practice, you know, like, please do it faster.
[00:29:59] So I can get out of this because, you know, how do you treat a patient who's wounded.
[00:30:06] You have to expose.
[00:30:08] Remove it as well.
[00:30:10] So they be going through stuff and they be like, you know, do you feel this or do you feel
[00:30:15] that?
[00:30:16] And like the patient saying yes, but no, I don't feel that because my, my feet are frozen
[00:30:21] right now.
[00:30:23] But so it was, it was a great course.
[00:30:26] We did two one month blocks where you got to hospitals around the country and
[00:30:35] work in the ERs or work with anywhere in the hospital.
[00:30:40] OBE just different aspects of go to the local fire.
[00:30:45] House is right on the ambulances get those experiences.
[00:30:49] So yeah, the medical training that the and and the seals used to go to 18 Delta
[00:30:55] our seal corpsmen used to go to 18 Delta.
[00:30:58] They don't anymore now.
[00:30:59] They have a separate course.
[00:31:01] Okay.
[00:31:02] But the training that they got and the training that that course provided is just awesome training.
[00:31:08] I mean, it's legendary awesome training and who knows how many lives have been saved
[00:31:15] guys went through that that block of training and we're just so good.
[00:31:20] And at doing all this stuff under a poncho at night, stop and bleeding, working on, you know,
[00:31:25] healing people with all kinds of, you know, in the, in the, in the,
[00:31:29] in the dirt like you said, all that stuff, there's the training that they prepped our medical
[00:31:34] guys for was phenomenal.
[00:31:36] Yeah.
[00:31:37] I was super impressed having been a medic before and then kind of stepping.
[00:31:44] And up a level like that, it was, it was really, really nice to see where we're going to
[00:31:51] take a year.
[00:31:52] We're going to really take our time.
[00:31:55] Teach you everything you need to know from the ground up.
[00:31:59] Yeah, and just continue to build those basics, you know, from starting early on with, you know,
[00:32:06] classes, sticks and rags like, okay, everything else is going to be great.
[00:32:11] Teach you that stuff, but, you know, sometimes this is literally just a stick in a
[00:32:16] rag.
[00:32:17] You can stop a lot of stuff.
[00:32:18] You can save a lot of people as long as you've had that experience.
[00:32:21] And then, of course, moving on later to, you usually keep a static agency, you know,
[00:32:26] like quick plot or something to really stop, but like, okay, this is easy now.
[00:32:31] Because I had to stop it last week with literally go find a stick and cut up, cut up some clothes.
[00:32:38] Yeah, yeah, teach it.
[00:32:42] Now you're giving me actual materials, like, okay, I got this.
[00:32:46] Going back to the Q Course, the initial kick off of the Q Course, was there anything that you had major issues with?
[00:32:49] What do you mean, like, when you were going through, not selection, but through the Q Course,
[00:32:54] was there anything that you were like, I'm not going to make it through this.
[00:32:56] I'm going to fail this.
[00:32:57] I'm not good enough with this.
[00:32:58] Like, for me, I wasn't really good at anything.
[00:33:00] I was like, everything that I did, because basically, every week, going through
[00:33:06] training, you get tested on, you get a timed run, you get a timed swim, you get a timed obstacle course.
[00:33:12] And then there's usually some kind of a water evolution that they're going to test you on,
[00:33:17] whether it's underwater, not tying or lifesaving or breath hold or whatever.
[00:33:21] They've got these evolutions for you and they're stacked up.
[00:33:24] And that's one of the biggest pressures that that I felt going through was,
[00:33:28] if you, for me, like, to pass a formal timed run, which that when I went through,
[00:33:33] the runs were not for miles.
[00:33:36] They were however long they happened to be that day.
[00:33:38] They might be 3.8.
[00:33:39] They might be 4.6.
[00:33:41] No one knew soft sand, high tide.
[00:33:44] And I failed one run, because I decided I was going to pace myself.
[00:33:50] And that was not smart.
[00:33:52] And after that one run, then I failed.
[00:33:53] I just had to go as hard as I could for the whole time.
[00:33:56] I'd said to sprint, this hard as I could, and then I'd pass.
[00:33:58] And it was kind of the same thing for everything.
[00:34:00] Like, I just had to go hard.
[00:34:02] But, you know, I was worried that, oh, I might fail another swim.
[00:34:06] I might fail.
[00:34:07] Was there anything where you were thinking to yourself, man, if I don't, if I don't pay attention,
[00:34:11] I might not make it through this training?
[00:34:14] Uh, I'll say any of the, any of the time we're out in the woods doing infantry stuff,
[00:34:21] because I just, I didn't have that experience.
[00:34:24] Uh, I worked my butt off, trying to learn, trying to pick up, follow the guys, like,
[00:34:31] okay, that guy has been a ranger school. He's done this. He's done, he's done, he's done, he's done, he's done a combat to point me.
[00:34:36] Let me, yeah.
[00:34:37] I'm hanging out a little closer to that guy and see, see what he does when we're setting up a patrol base.
[00:34:42] Those kind of things.
[00:34:44] Honestly, I think, like a lot of people, I have that two sides of the, the coin, I mean,
[00:34:51] I have that little bit of dumb arrogance, like I think I can do this,
[00:34:56] but then I also have that, I don't belong anywhere near these guys, like these guys are,
[00:35:03] you know, they've been there, actually done that. I've, what have I done?
[00:35:07] Um, so I was always trying to find that balance internal, you know,
[00:35:11] yeah, I can do this or, or, or know I can't.
[00:35:15] I guess that's a big difference between when you go through seal training,
[00:35:18] pretty much everyone's going through training is not been,
[00:35:23] that not done anything before. So even, because if you might have been the regular Navy,
[00:35:27] but even most guys haven't even been the regular Navy, most guys are just, you go through
[00:35:30] boot camp, you go through prep course and then you go show up at Buds and that's it.
[00:35:33] That's, that's what you do. So there's no, you're not looking anyone going on
[00:35:36] out of the sky, this guy's done stuff before anything like that.
[00:35:39] And also, you're not doing anything in, in basic seal training,
[00:35:44] you're just, there's no tactical, there's, there's barely any tactical knowledge
[00:35:51] being taught at all. It's like, carry this boat on your head for a long time.
[00:35:56] And it's going to hurt a lot. And then when it hurts a lot, keep going.
[00:36:00] Right. And I mean, SF definitely has that aspect too.
[00:36:04] Like if we find the right people, we can train you at any point on what we want you to do,
[00:36:09] but we just got to make sure, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to
[00:36:12] quit on us. And I don't know, I think just along the way, I was just,
[00:36:18] I was too stubborn to, to quit, definitely. I definitely wanted to all the time,
[00:36:24] but it wasn't any given the satisfaction.
[00:36:28] Yeah. And then so then you get done with that.
[00:36:32] You get done with a Q course. You get done with 18 Delta.
[00:36:35] And then when do you get, when do they give you your green bar A?
[00:36:40] So for us, I ended up finishing the entire Q course in May of 2006.
[00:36:47] So I done selection in January of 2004.
[00:36:50] Had a couple months break while I waited on orders.
[00:36:53] Started the Q course proper in June of 2004.
[00:36:57] And then May of 2006 when I graduated.
[00:37:00] Dang, that's a long pipeline, isn't it?
[00:37:02] It's a long pipeline. That's, that's zero recycled.
[00:37:06] That's zero getting injured. That's just, that's just what it is.
[00:37:12] All the other jobs are, they teach you the job at about three months,
[00:37:17] whereas the medic, they teach it in 12 months.
[00:37:20] So everybody else can be that much shorter than the NAR pipeline.
[00:37:25] But so it was the May. That's when I got the green bar A graduated,
[00:37:30] the Q course got my orders over to a third group.
[00:37:35] Did you, were you married? Did you get married yet?
[00:37:37] So graduated the Q course in May of 2006.
[00:37:43] Right, yeah. And so I got that couple week break before reporting to my unit.
[00:37:51] My wife and I got engaged. Then.
[00:37:55] So I reported over to third group towards the end of June of 2006.
[00:38:00] And they say, hey, go over to third battalion.
[00:38:03] They're going to get you slotted, third battalion's like, hey, go to Charlie company.
[00:38:08] And I show up to Charlie company three, three.
[00:38:11] And there's, there's nobody there. Like, my, the first guy here.
[00:38:16] They're like, what's going on? And there was one guy in there.
[00:38:20] And he's like, oh, everybody's on block leave because we're going to Afghanistan in a couple weeks.
[00:38:25] So I went home, told Miranda the situation.
[00:38:31] And so we were going to get a quicky marriage.
[00:38:35] But we didn't want to have to try and plan while I was gone.
[00:38:39] And then there's also those aspects of, you know, military doesn't give a damn about some girlfriend or fiance or anything.
[00:38:48] And so we, you know, we decided, you know, she wants, you know, an actual wedding ring and actual dress.
[00:38:56] You know, at least few things can we get them done.
[00:38:59] We got it done. So we got married and then I'd.
[00:39:02] You'd see, didn't do a quick wedding. But you got married in two weeks.
[00:39:05] So it was like three weeks.
[00:39:08] That's awesome.
[00:39:09] It wasn't like a low-prout away.
[00:39:12] Yeah.
[00:39:13] Because we'd been together a year and a half at that point.
[00:39:17] So yeah, it wasn't quick, but it was pretty quick.
[00:39:22] It's awesome.
[00:39:23] Did you did your family? How'd you tell your family?
[00:39:30] That text message.
[00:39:32] At that point, it texts really were there because you had to type so many, you know, to just kind of message.
[00:39:38] So we ended up bringing her parents and my parents.
[00:39:41] Oh, that's awesome.
[00:39:42] They actually came out.
[00:39:43] Yeah.
[00:39:44] Oh, okay.
[00:39:45] Yeah, we actually went.
[00:39:46] Where do you do non-quicky quick marriage?
[00:39:49] Vegas.
[00:39:50] So we don't can't met up there.
[00:39:52] Oh, so.
[00:39:53] So you did a Vegas wedding.
[00:39:55] And we're still going.
[00:39:57] I mean, what this summer will be 13 years short.
[00:40:00] I saw that.
[00:40:01] So yes, we got married.
[00:40:03] Did you request permission from your, uh, sergeant to get married?
[00:40:08] I did not.
[00:40:10] I didn't even meet him.
[00:40:11] So you went and let you out of the compound.
[00:40:13] I just went on because nobody was there.
[00:40:15] So they just put me as soon as I showed up.
[00:40:17] I went right back on leave.
[00:40:19] Kind of got married and then showed back up.
[00:40:21] Did some training and then.
[00:40:23] Better bunch of guys.
[00:40:25] For the first time and deployed for seven months with him.
[00:40:28] Day.
[00:40:29] And what was that first deployment like?
[00:40:32] Uh, the first deployment.
[00:40:35] Was.
[00:40:37] Compared to my second deployment, it was fairly tame.
[00:40:40] Uh, that.
[00:40:42] I've fallen.
[00:40:43] Fall 2006 into 2007.
[00:40:46] Time for a man of Afghanistan.
[00:40:48] We were, we were working with the, the Afghans, you know, doing that stuff.
[00:40:50] Something partner with them during them.
[00:40:52] Take a mile on missions.
[00:40:54] Uh, I don't know which we, which is ended up in, uh,
[00:40:59] guard as Afghanistan.
[00:41:00] And for some reason, was it's hard to find.
[00:41:03] Trouble.
[00:41:04] You're then.
[00:41:05] I mean, obviously things happen flow in different areas.
[00:41:08] And.
[00:41:09] But just at that time, we really couldn't find too much work.
[00:41:13] So were you guys, you guys were training up these, uh, Afghan national police.
[00:41:17] And build relationships with them. And then you'd go out and do some kind of missions with them.
[00:41:22] But the a.o. that you were in was relatively tame at the time.
[00:41:25] Yeah.
[00:41:26] So, uh, we work with the, the army and the, and the police.
[00:41:31] Just training them up trying to get them ready to take over their country.
[00:41:35] Because that's the SF mission is to, you're training you up.
[00:41:39] So you can do the job. And I can, I can go home.
[00:41:42] Um, you know, obviously all of us have guys want to be the guy to go in and.
[00:41:46] You know, pull up the doors and go in and clear it all yourselves.
[00:41:49] But the SF mission is to, you know, get somebody else to go do it for themselves.
[00:41:54] Yeah.
[00:41:55] Yeah.
[00:41:56] That's it for those of you that don't know.
[00:41:57] That's the, that is the tenant, the bit that's the mission of the, of the special forces of the green braises to work with the.
[00:42:04] Whatever nation you're in, you build up their forces, you help them, you train them prepare them.
[00:42:09] And, and then you advise them out on the battlefield.
[00:42:11] And hopefully with your goal of allowing them to.
[00:42:14] Eventually not need your advisement anymore. That's what that's what the primary mission of the special forces is.
[00:42:20] And well, in the sealed teams, we end up doing that as well.
[00:42:25] You know, we, I don't know.
[00:42:27] Ah, I'm trying to think of when we actually started getting tasked with that.
[00:42:30] But, you know, that's what we do now to, you know, we probably, we lean towards, you know, direct action in special reconnaissance.
[00:42:37] That's kind of where we learn, learn lean towards you guys lean more towards, you know, training up guerrilla forces.
[00:42:43] But there's a lot of crossover and, you know, all of us do everyone else's job to the best of our ability.
[00:42:49] But, did you, did you feel like the deployment was like, what was your satisfaction, was your personal satisfaction level of that deployment?
[00:42:59] I, I think like most as I have guys who just gone through a long train up, you've got all this experience, you're here,
[00:43:08] you're here, you're here to go and I, I'd to play a man. I mean, it was a good trip, but it was, it was a little quieter than I think most of the team would have liked.
[00:43:18] You know, if you're going to be gone and you're going to miss your family for seven months.
[00:43:23] So would you guys, would you take them out to hit targets?
[00:43:26] And there just would be, you'd capture your bad guy or yes or no, but they'd, they'd weren't putting up resistance.
[00:43:31] Yeah, we, we did villages, we, we'd go, we caught plenty of bad guys.
[00:43:37] Just they, at, at that point, I don't know, I think it was this kind of a weird point in the war where the, back guys really, they could quickly spot this as F and they didn't really want too much to do with us.
[00:43:54] So they just, you know, we'll pass today, we'll find another unit to attack.
[00:44:02] But yeah, just, yeah, we caught, we caught guys, they just always went pretty quickly. I mean, we, we got in, we'd get into a couple, you know, couple.
[00:44:16] Yeah, just a couple contact over there, but it was, yeah, overall was just kind of quite area at that time.
[00:44:24] And was it winter time? So showed up there in August of 2006 and we stayed till March of 2, though, I don't want to say March of 2007.
[00:44:36] So yeah, it was, is that winter when you kind of have that wall anyways of the winter time?
[00:44:42] Yeah, and like you said, I mean, things just go up and down cycles go up and down.
[00:44:45] People, the enemy gets agitated or they get beat down and they take a tactical breath for a few months or whatever.
[00:44:53] And then you come home from that deployment and you're, so then what happens? What's the life of the next F guy when you come home from that deployment?
[00:45:02] You're going to start to work up to get ready to play again.
[00:45:04] Yeah, we already knew when we were going again.
[00:45:08] Basically, the, at the time there was three battalion Zanerps standing up a fort battalion in the group. So kind of two battalions would be on the next rotation, one would be down.
[00:45:21] So it just happened that my battalion had to, to back to back so to speak. So we had seven on seven off and then seven on again.
[00:45:29] So we knew right away. So we got back when we're going.
[00:45:33] And then do you try and cram into a quick work up into that time period?
[00:45:37] Of course. So, you know, you got back. So you got a first refit, get everything resituated, make sure, make sure, you know, all the stuff you broke is fixed.
[00:45:50] Uh, kind of, you know, take a little bit of time just to decompress and then start the train up and, you know, we got, got a few new guys in on the team.
[00:46:04] We got a new team sergeant. We got a new team leader, a couple other new guys and, you know, just getting everybody ready, getting on the same page.
[00:46:15] And then we, the team sergeant, we got, then Scott Ford, he was great coming from, he'd come from the training, he'd come from some, some different SF teams that had been over to Iraq and Afghanistan and had been there, you know, early on in the war when it was, it's a lot. So he, he put us through a lot of training got us, got us much more prepared than, we were prepared for the first trip, but we were even better for the second one.
[00:46:44] Yeah, we finished up that training, do a little bit more.
[00:46:49] How the boys like that when you had the, the new team sergeant coming in and he's all fired up to push you guys hard and training was any push back from that.
[00:46:58] Of course, all of us are, you know, SF guys and a little bit like, you know, even though he's, teams are, he's been around forever. Who's this new guy coming on the team, trying to tell us all what to do, like, but, you know, it didn't take very long to see, okay, he's got all this great experience in, and the training that he's putting us through was, was definitely getting us right.
[00:47:24] And how much, how much support do you guys get for training? So do they set, do, are you going through organized training? Are you guys running all the training yourselves?
[00:47:34] It's the company does coordinate some stuff, but most of it's just have a team level. So, you know, the team sergeant's kind of, in coordination with the team leader is kind of guiding the team, where they want him to be, but then.
[00:47:52] As SF is broken down, you have your, your weapons sergeants who are, you know, supposed to be your weapons experts, you have your engineers who, you know, handle the demolitions and those things.
[00:48:03] Your communications guys and your medics. And so depending on the day it might be my day to teach. So I'm going to get two days this week to just put everybody through many medical course, get them, get them ready just in case.
[00:48:20] You know, some happens I can't get there or some happens me or something like that.
[00:48:25] So everybody, everybody is a subject matter expert and just kind of tries to, tries to lift that whole team up to be the best.
[00:48:34] They can be, there's no, obviously each job is the best at their job. You want to know as much as you can about everything.
[00:48:45] So that way, you know, when things go wrong, and that point it was kind of still theoretical to me, but yeah, when things went wrong, okay, I can handle this.
[00:48:57] And then you guys already knew when you're going to find it and you did you know where you're going on the planet as well.
[00:49:05] I don't remember when we found out what our next mission was.
[00:49:09] I can't remember if it was early on or it was late. I think it was fairly early on in our buildup.
[00:49:15] That we knew we were going to be working this time with the Afghan Commandos, which was a fairly new thing at the time.
[00:49:23] It was right on that time that the SF teams had just started.
[00:49:27] I keep working to go through selection for the Afghan army. We're going to get the best we can. We're going to train them up more.
[00:49:33] And these Afghan Commandos battalions and they're going to be the SF of Afghanistan.
[00:49:39] So I can't remember exactly when, but we knew we were going to be partnering with those guys to do a little bit more of this trip.
[00:49:49] So your expectation was that things were going to be a little bit hotter on the second deployment.
[00:49:54] Correct.
[00:49:55] Did you believe that as a as like one cruise wonder, guy that don't don't want to implement, are you like things going to be hotter?
[00:50:02] Or were you just thinking hey, it's going to be the same as last time?
[00:50:06] Uh, I think we all thought it was going to be a little bit more this trip just because my first trip, it was you kind of had a little bit more of a region that your team was.
[00:50:20] So it just depends on what your region is doing.
[00:50:22] God, it was this commandos could go anywhere.
[00:50:24] The commandos, they were still fairly new so there wasn't that many.
[00:50:28] So over the course of the second my second deployment and we spent time in eastern Afghanistan, we spent time down to Kandahar, we spent time just going wherever they needed another battalion because.
[00:50:39] Like I said, there wasn't very many. They were training about, but it takes a little while to get get guys trained up.
[00:50:45] So you go on deployment, you show up there and you start working with commandos.
[00:50:50] How was your relationship with the commandos, how how good were the commandos as you trained them?
[00:50:55] They were, they were much better than, then, you know, non-selected force. I think that's just, you know, as to be expected.
[00:51:07] Um, you're still going to have those, you know, variances in your inner troops, but don't even have more comfortable.
[00:51:17] So they were fairly capable crew.
[00:51:21] They were better.
[00:51:26] Shit.
[00:51:29] Understood.
[00:51:30] And so you're out there working with these guys. What type of type of missions were you doing?
[00:51:34] Just basically going after high value targets?
[00:51:37] Yeah.
[00:51:42] Yeah, we would get until on a high value target.
[00:51:45] We'd, you know, trying to, again, going back to trying to train them to do the job for their country.
[00:51:53] So we'd work with their, the team later for the team would start working with the, you know, the command level over there.
[00:52:02] Okay. This is the objective. How, how do you, how would you take it? And then they would kind of coordinate on a battle plan.
[00:52:11] For me, you know, I'd make sure they're Maddox. You know, we're, we're trying to get getting ready. And then, you know, when it came time for an actual mission,
[00:52:21] then each one of us would have a squad or, or maybe a few extra.
[00:52:27] Which is how big is an Afghan command to squad?
[00:52:30] There were, there were belts around the same premise as a, as a, are an army, you know, light of a tree unit.
[00:52:39] So you'd have, you know, nine, ten dudes, just depending on what kind of squad you had with you on a given day.
[00:52:49] And so then you would be running your squad of Afghan commandos once you're out in the field.
[00:52:54] You would, whatever, whatever, just from a, you're no longer just the medic.
[00:52:59] You're now a little squad advisor for these Afghan commandos.
[00:53:04] Yeah, the, the, the medic piece is always there.
[00:53:08] Yeah, yeah, yeah. For, for 18 delta, but, you know, best medicine is superior fire by our.
[00:53:14] So if we can, if we can check, if we can go in, we hit him over well and force everybody's good.
[00:53:20] We win, we're talking about how tough we are and then we go home.
[00:53:23] Yeah. And so yeah, the primary role is to, you know, advise that squad leader on, on how things going.
[00:53:33] And then, you know, we also bring all the other assets that the US military comes with, all that.
[00:53:37] You know, whether it's helicopter coverage or aircraft coverage.
[00:53:41] So we can, we're getting those, you know, that extra intel that we can then push to these guys and be like, hey, this is going on.
[00:53:50] This is not going on. Let's fix this.
[00:53:53] Yeah, no, from me, I think I just wanted to kind of bring that out because it's, it's pretty cool when you think about it.
[00:53:58] You know, you're, you could be this young soldier and you're out there and all of a sudden you're working, you're,
[00:54:03] you're an element leader, but you go from just being a medic or just being a demo guy or just being a communicator.
[00:54:08] All of a sudden it's okay, you know what, now you're doing that thing, but you're also going to be advising, which, in oftentimes means you're actually leading this squad of commandos and you're making sure that they're making the right move.
[00:54:18] So that's a very cool aspect of the job in my opinion, you know.
[00:54:23] Yeah, it was, when you could see them getting better, it was definitely a very rewarding and.
[00:54:30] As you see them start to take more initiative and start to.
[00:54:35] To, you know, be upfront with you like, okay, that's, that's cool to see because I've been working with this guy for a while and I remember one mission we were doing down in.
[00:54:47] And can to hard they, we ended up getting infilled and we start looking at our, our GRG, the grid reverence, or the, you know, our little map to see where we are and we're looking at it and it's one AM2.
[00:54:59] And whatever it is, I have no idea where we are. We're not on this map.
[00:55:04] So, well, we hear some gunfire and like, I'll just go that way, you know.
[00:55:13] So, so I have one of the interpreters with with me when I'm blade because they, they all want to, not keep out their real names in these situations, but, you know, I'm played, I'm like,
[00:55:27] I'm like, blade, hey, let's get, let's get the truth. Let's hear it moving towards gunfire and see what happens.
[00:55:32] And then we start moving or doing our thing. And at one point I look back and blade to right there on my shoulder, he's doing his thing.
[00:55:40] And like, like, where is everybody? And they had, hungered down and kind of a couple terrain features back and I got to go get them.
[00:55:51] So, but so you start there and then, you know, over time, the gap shortens a little bit to, you know, ideally where they're leading.
[00:56:02] Yeah, what was the up tempo like, how often would you guys go and hit targets?
[00:56:08] Yeah, it would vary time-time, but with that, that's training and advising piece. We weren't going out like every night because like, we got to take these guys from, from ground up on mission planning and everything.
[00:56:25] So we're going out several times a month to, on bigger missions and then other little things as they came up.
[00:56:34] And when you, so it starts off, these guys are not wanting to get anywhere. They're not wanting to get shot at.
[00:56:41] They're, if there's rounds fired, they're hiding a couple terrain features away. And then you're slowly progressing them, building a relationship with them, getting to know them.
[00:56:49] They realize that they can actually do better. And that process is going on and you arrived.
[00:56:55] This was in 2007, you guys have arrived in October in 2007, is that right?
[00:57:00] Yeah. Okay. And then you're doing one, two, three missions getting these guys trying to push them each time to do a little bit more to take on a little bit more responsibility.
[00:57:14] And, and this is just sort of the way it is.
[00:57:17] And then what kind of training are you doing? On top of that, you're, when you're back on base, you're running them through immediate action drills,
[00:57:23] you're teaching them how to shoot, moving communicate. That's basically what's going on.
[00:57:26] Yeah. Teaching those, those basic, you know, infantry skills, take them out to the range, teaching them how to clear a building, teaching them, you know,
[00:57:35] just all the things you need to continue to reinforce. And then, like I said, once you got a mission, I go, okay, then we're going to start going through those, those,
[00:57:45] tape drills. And we're going to build out a little village here as best we can with our, our budget, which was, you know, tape.
[00:57:55] So, we're going to start building that stuff out. So that way, like, okay, we're going to fill here, expect to walk this way, start, you know, going to those choreographs for hersols to get everybody,
[00:58:04] get everybody ready. So now as you guys got ready to go into the shock valley, what was, did it seem like just another mission, did it seem like all this one seems like it's going to be a little bit heavier, what was your, what was your assessment of it getting ready to do it.
[00:58:22] There were definitely a few red flags that came with this mission, but there's red flags with, with most missions, like, they give us a gun in training for a reason, like they don't ask you to go to a tickle fight with somebody else.
[00:58:43] Like we, you're always expecting something, but, but, you know, it was just, it was, you know, we'd gone after high value targets before.
[00:58:54] We had in tellies over here, we had in tell them what to expect. So, you know, was, our, the plan that we had going with, nobody was super excited about the idea of infilling the
[00:59:12] bottom of a mountain and then walk up that does not sound fun. But it comes to the point where, you know, like, this is the mission.
[00:59:25] Yeah.
[00:59:26] All right. Cool. We're going to do this mission the best we can and we're going to.
[00:59:30] And what, what, how, why did you guys have to insert at the bottom of that hill?
[00:59:33] Uh, I think the decision was made that, you know, the Afghan command was still being a little bit new. Like, they knew how to fast-rope.
[00:59:43] We had done that stuff, but how many people do we want to risk injuring on that and then just, you know, if there is resistance, you know, what's going to, what's going to come of that.
[00:59:57] And I mean, I try to try not to get to caught up in, well, maybe would have better if we'd, we didn't fill the in on top.
[01:00:07] Maybe we would have caught on RPG to the 47 right away.
[01:00:10] Yeah, no, no, you can't play that game. You can't play that game. I played that game with myself and it's not a good game to play.
[01:00:17] Now, it doesn't mean that you don't look at it. You go, oh, yeah. Okay. Here's what we saw. This is why we made the decision.
[01:00:22] This is something that you, my brothers that are out there that could be in the same situation. We're going to make that decision. Consider how it worked out for me, right?
[01:00:30] And, and, you know, this is, well, a couple weeks ago was 11 year from that battle, but I was actually talking to some SF guys not too long ago and they're like, we still talk about that mission.
[01:00:45] We still talk about the, the good, which was the teamwork, the, you know, the everybody coming together, get this, get this job done as best we could.
[01:00:53] And we talk about the, the less ideal parts as well and then make sure that we don't learn for somebody else mistakes don't repeat those.
[01:01:03] And I think that's a great part about SF is you have that humbleness like, hey, we did not do this right?
[01:01:09] Yeah. Please learn. We did this right. Please learn.
[01:01:12] And, and, yeah, and, and again, the other side of that is like, you could look at this thing all day and say, well, you should have gone and fast-rope on. And like you said, you take an RPG into one of those helicopters and there's nine dead guys or whatever and you go, okay, well, I guess that wasn't a good plan.
[01:01:26] So you can make the best, you can make a horrible decision and it can work out well, you can make the best decision it can work out horribly.
[01:01:33] So whether that, that's like, that's the way it is. So what you do is try and learn from it and look at what you did and say, okay, well, well, we have done better.
[01:01:42] Could you tell from the the imagery and or the maps of the area what that terrain feature was like?
[01:01:52] Because I'll tell you what, I was, you know, I was in get ready for this podcast, I read a bunch about the operation and I kept reading steep terrain and, you know, this that the other thing.
[01:02:05] And then, and I kind of calculated in my mind, you know, what that looked like in my mind.
[01:02:10] And in my mind, it was, it was pretty bad. It was like, okay, it must have been pretty challenging.
[01:02:14] And then I went and looked at actual footage because there's a bunch of actual footage because you guys had a combat photographer and you had a bunch of overhead cover.
[01:02:22] I saw that terrain.
[01:02:24] Brother, I could not believe it. I was, I was, I was saying, oh my, like as bad as everything sounded, it was 10 times worse when I saw that terrain. I was like, I can't believe that this that these guys did this.
[01:02:38] I agree. Yeah, and I don't just mean that for like, if we didn't sort of there, I was saying, well, the fact that you guys went up there, everything that you had to do on that operation because the terrain was so steep.
[01:02:48] I couldn't believe that you guys got out of there. I mean, it was just crazy.
[01:02:52] Like, you know, I mean, you get used to, you see the predator imagery beforehand to kind of get a feel you've seen satellite imagery.
[01:03:01] You get used to saying that stuff and you kind of, you learn to build in that variance of this is what it looks like there, but I know it's not going to be like that.
[01:03:10] And so you kind of, you build in your right and your left limit. It's like, this is a kind of what I think I'm going to see.
[01:03:16] Yeah.
[01:03:17] And it was still a little bit more than, at least for me, what I was expecting.
[01:03:22] Yeah, it was no joke. It's, it's a borderline cliff. I mean, it is steep and anyone that's listening to this, you can go on YouTube and you can Google.
[01:03:30] You can go through a little battle of shock value and you'll, you'll start to see what I'm talking about.
[01:03:35] It's, it's, it's some heavy, steep terrain with a damn fortress on the top of it.
[01:03:42] I couldn't believe that either. I was like, oh, that, that is a fortress. How many Afghan commandos did you have with you?
[01:03:49] We inserted it right around 100 of them and then some my team, you know, so I go through it in my head.
[01:03:57] It's about 12 dudes. When you, when you add it all up, we had about 100 commandos and then we, we had another SF team that was kind of further down on the valley trying to act as a blocking position down there.
[01:04:12] And so, but our main assault force,
[01:04:16] I mean, it was about 12 dudes that kind of, that main assault. So yeah.
[01:04:26] On it. So, so you guys, you, you look at the plan. Everyone's kind of like, hey, it's going to be steep.
[01:04:31] It's going to be tough. This is what we do. Let's go get some.
[01:04:34] Yeah, we, we made some, like accommodations for that, like,
[01:04:41] giving what we're doing today. Obviously, you always want your secondary, but, you know, if, if that barraida doesn't walk up the hill with you today.
[01:04:51] I like, we understand. We got to, we got to cut some weight here there.
[01:04:54] We got your cells down a little bit. We did, we did, we did, we did pair down.
[01:04:58] Body armour. I was still went with with the plates.
[01:05:01] Stay with. And when you're doing those precombat checks with your, your, your affin commandos.
[01:05:09] was always the fun part is they're super motivated to be there and I remember one
[01:05:16] time we're going they want to pre-combat checks with a 240 gunner so we've got a
[01:05:21] belt-fed machine gun you carry this this is your job I start going through and
[01:05:27] I find you know the first M4 mag on it like all right dude I mean you don't
[01:05:31] carry it M4 but I get it and we ended up finding I think 8 or 9 M4 mags on this dude
[01:05:37] like carry carry more 7 6 2 for the belt-fed I appreciate the you know you
[01:05:44] want to be ready but focus focus in where I need you buddy that's kind of crazy
[01:05:52] so so you guys so how many how many helicopters was it that was bringing you all
[01:05:57] in there must have been a big package and did you go in all at once like one
[01:06:01] giant lift it was yeah one lift it was a couple a couple of shnoaks couple
[01:06:08] black ox everybody going in and then I think said there was another team that
[01:06:15] kind of infilled down there with a smaller command of package and we had you
[01:06:22] know some medical QRF and stuff up in the air and a few other things you
[01:06:27] know so we definitely had what seems like enough going in so you land in
[01:06:35] there and how long does it take before you realize like well okay this is this
[01:06:40] is we we took a big bite well oh oh so I was the first guy get on the
[01:06:49] shunook so that that went the last guy to get off you know you know just
[01:06:55] having that responsibility make sure everybody gets off get up safely and so
[01:06:59] we hit the it's only here the go and everybody's getting off helicopter so
[01:07:07] incredibly slowly and I'm at the front so I'm in the back of the line I don't
[01:07:11] know what's going on I'm just yelling at commandos like get off of this
[01:07:16] helicopter now like the more time we're sitting here the more if if there is a
[01:07:22] bad guy watching us we're just giving him more time to watch us so it's just
[01:07:28] taking forever and I finally get to the back of the shunook and I look out
[01:07:33] and I'm like oh we're like 15 feet off the ground the the valley that we're in
[01:07:39] is just so rocky and so such horrible terrain even there like they didn't
[01:07:44] land like oh okay this is why in Stegge so long so like everybody else in
[01:07:49] front of me I very carefully you know sit down try to shimmy off the backs I'm
[01:07:53] not breaking a leg before I even start off to a good start yeah it started
[01:07:59] strong so so we we get off the the shunooks fly away and then you just kind
[01:08:07] of get that that cold quiet of an Afghan valley you know there's that
[01:08:17] little bit of ice in in the water there you know it's just you know you want to
[01:08:24] use the cliche like it's too quiet but it's gonna be the house but yeah we just
[01:08:32] got we get out there how far did you have to patrol up the valley before you
[01:08:36] were you know perpendicular to the target building or the target castle because
[01:08:42] that's what it looks like it I mean it you know in hindsight and you know you
[01:08:47] see them up there like I mean they had fixed fighting positions right
[01:08:50] to go right they were they looked like a castle they were they were set I would
[01:08:55] guess 400 meters six hundred and we got basically we didn't fill just basically
[01:09:07] trying to use angles just to make sure like we're not that far away so if we
[01:09:13] have some element of surprise we don't waste it all but not so close that you
[01:09:20] know we're already in it before we get off so yeah it wasn't that far so you
[01:09:26] weren't on the ground very long before you started to you start you took fire
[01:09:30] from these guys from the castle yeah I couldn't I couldn't tell you how long
[01:09:35] before the castle started shooting at us I could have been five ten
[01:09:39] fifteen minutes I don't think it was that long so I was in the the trailing
[01:09:45] element basically because I was the only US medic on the ground there I had my
[01:09:51] afghanic manal medics but I was the only only a team medic there are you
[01:09:58] know SF they were supposed to have to of the stop to of that job to the next
[01:10:02] unfortunately the the other medic on the team had been hurt on a previous
[01:10:08] mission and then while he was recovering from that he was in a vehicle
[01:10:13] roll over which didn't help so he got pulled out so yeah I'll still do it so
[01:10:24] yeah 10 15 minutes maybe at most I always start walking walking up there you
[01:10:31] can see the the lead assault force starting to work their way up and yeah
[01:10:40] everywhere it's super steep on both your left and right is you're as you're
[01:10:45] kind of looking at it and they find one little area where you have those kind of
[01:10:51] terrorists like farm terraces kind of working up and on it's where they'd figured
[01:10:55] out okay what we're gonna work our way up there and so you can see them starting
[01:10:59] to make progress up the up the mountain and then I distinctly remember I saw
[01:11:05] one do just in blue you know blue uh just afghanic art sprinter cross the top of
[01:11:15] the hill with a with a rifle and I don't I don't think he's the dude who started
[01:11:19] shooting at us but I saw that and then within a few seconds everything just
[01:11:24] kind of opened up on us and yeah the day started yeah I want to my little
[01:11:35] saying is always take the high ground or it'll take you and this was just a
[01:11:38] situation where you guys do you guys do not have the high ground at all you
[01:11:42] guys are literally in a valley how long was it before you took your first wounded
[01:11:46] it was pretty quick so we start taking the fire I my first job is is to my squad
[01:11:56] I think manos squad so I start getting them situated there's not much cover in
[01:12:02] there it's just smaller rocks bigger rocks what with that elevation and at various
[01:12:10] points I mean both sides were kind of shooting at us so I started getting them
[01:12:17] situated and then very quickly I heard the first call for medic one of the afghan
[01:12:22] commandos had been shot luckily it was a fairly minor wound so I ran over to him
[01:12:29] started treating him and while I was working on him just assessing the situation
[01:12:35] that's when I remember watching many RPGs coming down but one RPG in particular
[01:12:45] come down hit right in front of our lines that the guys were starting to form down in the
[01:12:53] valley and then I hear the calls for Ron coming down and so I know right away like
[01:13:02] Ryan Wallen had just been hurt like I just know that right away because before every mission
[01:13:09] Ryan would come take his squad of the day and stand in front of me and hold them be like
[01:13:17] this is Ron something happens to me find Ron and he get the next one this is Ron something
[01:13:23] happens fine Ron good insurance policy and so they you know when the with an
[01:13:30] alcohol for medic they're just calling for Ron I okay I know he squad that is so yeah kind of
[01:13:39] that quick math like okay this guy he's fine he's he's really not gonna live or die based on anything
[01:13:44] I do it's not gonna grab he had a saw like grab your saw start shooting back good luck and
[01:13:51] ran over towards more had that next call and like you'd read earlier I find Ryan
[01:14:02] I'm a bleeding pretty pretty profusely from neck and of course now you got a neck injury
[01:14:11] and you gotta go through those quick calculations like normally how do you stop bleeding lots of pressure
[01:14:16] like well I can't choke him to death no turning gets gonna work out yeah so yeah just that's kind
[01:14:25] of started the my day of improvising like trying to figure out how to pressure and I don't even remember
[01:14:31] exactly what I did he just caught shot no I had several
[01:14:36] trap no wounds and that in there but you know you just doing those quick quick assessments
[01:14:42] okay there's no bubbling which means that's bright and hit airway you know it's it's bleeding a
[01:14:48] lot but not bleeding that fast that I think it caught a karate out or something like that so
[01:14:55] it's a pretty lucky neck wound yeah if you have to catch him trapped into the neck he did it pretty well
[01:15:04] so yeah as I was working on him everybody is trying to just figure out what's
[01:15:10] what was going on the mindset we're still assaulting this thing oh yeah
[01:15:15] dang I wait we didn't just trumped me in uh in mental attitude because I would have been oh
[01:15:20] we just got launched by the way you used that you said we got launched many RPGs
[01:15:26] when I get launched many RPGs it may from an elevated position I'm done assaulting that target
[01:15:31] we're going somewhere else hey I got a wound you got I got two wounded people yeah we're not
[01:15:36] we're not going any further up this hill and we were spears we're sure Narpej's back at him we had
[01:15:40] I I legitimately couldn't not tell you our Afghan commandos real name but he just he knew his name was
[01:15:47] Joe Peshie that's that's what we called him yeah he looked like Joe Peshie he was he was our
[01:15:53] Afghan Commander RPG guy and so he was kind of like looking at all of us and looking at the
[01:15:58] mountain and pointing up there and pointing at his RPG and like hell yeah I do launch them
[01:16:03] go get them Joe make it happen and so yeah let's see some good fellows right here yeah so
[01:16:09] so I go back she started shooting back so we yes our getting given back as good as they were
[01:16:19] but so yeah all that's kind of starting to go on you know warrior when Ryan trying to figure out
[01:16:26] what in my you could back and get my squad what what needs to happen and that's when here on the
[01:16:32] radio the call from from up on the mountain that multiple guys were now now wounded I'm pretty sure
[01:16:46] the call was it you know the three guys at that point were wounded so yeah basically told Ryan
[01:16:52] you're good have a nice day and grab my stuff just start working towards the mountain
[01:17:03] our team team sergeant Scott Ford and one of the the weapons guys Matt Williams they started
[01:17:10] organizing a response force to get up there and start flexing a little more muscle up on the hill
[01:17:19] so there they're organizing that my focus is hey I need to go so you know hit the mountain start
[01:17:28] working start my way up the same terraced features that I talked about before and you know it is
[01:17:35] climbing hand over you know hand over hand your literally climbing get up to the next terrace
[01:17:41] figure out how much are we being shot out right now whereas it coming from where's the next place I can
[01:17:45] go up and just start working our way up as we went up you know the the other support LMA kind of got
[01:17:53] got with me and we all just started taking that terrain together took a while to get there I don't
[01:18:03] I don't know the they put out their estimates what I don't how long it took me to get there
[01:18:08] got up to the the little outcropping that had become you know where the where the command
[01:18:17] element was what was and sort of processing the situation that we had what as I right as I'm
[01:18:28] looking at it I can see one of our turpenters C.K. he appears to be K.A.A. to the
[01:18:37] to the team guys were it or down with the different wounds and so I started just trying to go
[01:18:48] through the fastest you know triage that I can to figure out what I need to do and and
[01:18:55] honestly even at this point where I don't think the calls made quite yet that were
[01:19:00] done for the day but it was going to be called very soon after that so yeah trying to
[01:19:11] remember the the full sequence it was a busy day so I think I started working on Dylan first just
[01:19:19] because he looked the worst off he had a gunshot wound to his right arm and then another one to his
[01:19:26] hip pelvis area of his his arm wound I joke of him now because he's he's fine and it's okay
[01:19:36] to joke about getting shot after the fact but you know joke with him that one ball the hit his arm
[01:19:45] it was it was just a lucky bullet for him but it went through his his
[01:19:52] his uh for you know speaking words is tough sometimes his uh his rifle strap it went okay
[01:20:01] swing it went through his sling cut cut that then went through his arm and then he he chose to
[01:20:08] keep his pistol on that day but the time we were still kind of running a pistol on the front of
[01:20:13] your body armor and so it had actually lodged in between his plate and his pistol it hit the
[01:20:21] inside of his his pistol and that just slightly different angles on that bullet and yeah so
[01:20:30] his arm wound was basically just a very minor blade didn't worry too much about that
[01:20:39] but didn't take me along to figure out his his his other one was going to
[01:20:43] give me a literally a pan the ass for him all day figure it out of the way for me but it was you
[01:20:55] know you can just see the way it's bleeding and it's just you know those very small wounds
[01:21:01] entry so I had made the I would say dumb call for just a few moments I don't even know how long
[01:21:13] it was I didn't want to roll him anymore than I had to to to see what was going on so I
[01:21:22] for a little bit took my helmet off set it to the side so I could just roll him just to see
[01:21:27] the the downside wound how bad was it didn't end up being that bad so I'm going to roll them back
[01:21:35] over hopefully I put my helmet on right away or I think maybe somebody yelled at me but so just
[01:21:43] started working on trying to figure out how to get pressure on there you'd mentioned we had the
[01:21:48] comet camera man out there with us by that point his camera had already been shot so he he just
[01:21:57] became an extra set of hands for me to to help so okay let me go triage the rest of these guys are
[01:22:07] quick just hold pressure here for me I'll be back in a second and you know I say I'll be back
[01:22:14] like the area we're working in was not that bad gives maybe 20 meters across and it's just that
[01:22:26] that slight slope you get on a hillside before it falls off the cliff so I just big like and
[01:22:32] everybody's just hanging on that tiny little bit of the slope trying to not fall off and not get
[01:22:39] job and the the guys had been shot when they on that slope when they got shot are they pushing up a little bit
[01:22:44] were you were you somewhat safe in that shot were you in that spot were you somewhat protect
[01:22:50] your was the guys still getting I guess they weren't because you still guys were getting shot no guys were still
[01:22:55] still getting shot so we're basically you're just trying to use that tiny bit of an angle to minimize
[01:23:03] how much you can be shot at there was there was no place where you were safe on there at all
[01:23:13] if you kind of picture like from from from that little outcropping where we were if you're looking at the
[01:23:22] main village it was almost like like a like a hockey stick kind of in front of you as the way the
[01:23:30] mountain kind of wrapped around so yeah that long wall kind of on what I'm considering my left but
[01:23:36] then it still wrapped around so the whole village if you got a little bit of cover from this side
[01:23:43] you're exposed to the others yet the other side still had you and then there were some people on the
[01:23:47] other side of the the valley who were shooting us too but it was much it was insignificant compared to
[01:23:53] other problems we had was your mindset at this point totally focused on just getting to get working on
[01:23:59] the guys did you go into that mode like okay this is what I got to do or was any part of you going
[01:24:06] this is not good did it was any part of you that was saying hold on a second look what's happening
[01:24:11] situation we're surrounded they have the enemy has the upper ground I got one through one of the
[01:24:15] guys what calls being made what was what was like your tactical assessment of what was happening
[01:24:22] or were you just straight up working on guys trying to save their lives for my perspective it was
[01:24:30] straight up working on guys at that point trying to get my commandos and you know leading them anywhere
[01:24:39] that was over for me I would I would find them hours and hours later and they were like they were
[01:24:47] still down in the valley just hanging out trying to use a little bit of cover and they all kind of saw
[01:24:52] me in there I like we thought you were dead oh well I go like you're welcome back
[01:24:58] and you're like thanks for the support thanks yeah thanks so like I said we were working on
[01:25:03] clothes in those gaps with them but sometimes the other bands still broke but so yeah I was mostly
[01:25:12] focused on just trying to treat these guys and you know you need to convey information to the
[01:25:23] team leader and you need to tell the guy you're you're fine buddy you don't don't worry about that so
[01:25:29] at one point you know telling Dylan you're good dude we walked us off and then kind of looking
[01:25:35] over the team leader me and like no seriously he needs to go now he needed to go a while ago but
[01:25:43] now we'll be fine too so and I didn't really think about his perspective on it but you know later
[01:25:52] he's like yeah I was hearing it all too like sorry about that that's that's a rough way to hear things
[01:26:00] so so you had three guys wounded in that position as well so there was the the three kind of a knit
[01:26:08] the two of two Americans initially credit critical and the one at the end and I so I
[01:26:15] started working on Dylan went over to the wese saw what what had happened him loose my last
[01:26:23] and he had been shot through the thigh and through the ankle and both on the right side
[01:26:27] and luckily it didn't hit any of the major vessels but it like for this it's thigh it just
[01:26:35] ripped it in half like you could look all the way through his thigh look like you could have been
[01:26:41] a fish and you were gutting it so while he wasn't you know he didn't hit a major artery it's just
[01:26:47] so much tissue damage that this could still form compartments syndrome we could still kill him
[01:26:52] many different ways so I started working you know assess him and you know just doing those first
[01:27:00] sweeps like I'm not trying to do anything definitive yet it's just like I figured out what
[01:27:04] all's going on and then I'll come back through so after seeing a little wese I still felt like
[01:27:10] I owed CK an actual check this is the interpreter the interpreter he was he was that but I still owed him
[01:27:22] like it less less I know what killed him maybe he's still alive so I went up to the check on him
[01:27:30] he he'd he'd been shot just behind the left ear and yeah it was it was an unsurbable wound
[01:27:36] yeah so I checked on checked on him and then you know we just unfortunately with it's a little
[01:27:46] cover as we had for anything like he couldn't take up space where we had cover so we we just kind of
[01:27:54] had him off to the side a little bit but exposed to the elements because you know unfortunately the
[01:28:04] living guys didn't have enough space so after checking on him I kind of go back through and
[01:28:13] obviously this entire time we're still getting shot at you can still feel those spults gone by
[01:28:17] you can still feel the dirt kicking up you know there's just everything so tight in there
[01:28:28] and so little space like I'm trying to kneel over these guys to do the best I can't for them and
[01:28:35] and as things are just falling on us trying to cover them as things you know just rocks are
[01:28:40] coming down as close as they're happening just trying to get yeah because at some point they start calling
[01:28:44] in for fire is that is that happening yet the the the the the calls for fire came in they started
[01:28:53] pretty quickly um second runner was our Air Force come back controller that day he got the Air Force
[01:28:58] Cross very deservedly so you know all of us are alive because of all the stuff that he called in the
[01:29:09] day yeah he's dropping bombs danger close dropping 2000 pounder I mean it's dropping the stuff and
[01:29:18] again you know why I'm talking about this as if I know who's what it looks like because I saw
[01:29:22] you can watch these videos and you can see the bombs hitting in massive hitting that castle and
[01:29:28] massive bombs hitting that castle and even even the bombs hit that castle they they do damage but
[01:29:33] that castle was massive and crazy you know we ended up through the course of the day one of our
[01:29:41] Afghans broke his leg the the wood framing on a building they got blown up broke his leg so we
[01:29:48] gotta deal with that you're getting just all the other wounds that are coming with those because
[01:29:54] this is massive debris is coming down on you guys from those danger close hits bomb drops and
[01:30:03] like debris is coming down on you guys because you guys are below it down a cliff right at
[01:30:08] at one point I don't remember exactly where in the sequence of events
[01:30:13] basically I could say we kind of had that wall on our left that went straight up and there was
[01:30:21] there was a a building there and they were getting in that and starting to shoot down at us
[01:30:28] and so that had to go away so Zach ended up calling in a strike hit that and
[01:30:36] I don't go hunting too much for footage online but I don't have seen it through the military side
[01:30:43] you can you can actually hear the pilot come on the radio after he drops that one he's like
[01:30:48] I do not feel good about that one yep that's how danger close it was it was so danger close
[01:30:52] that the pilot comes on the radio afterwards and says he goes that was real close I don't feel good
[01:30:57] about that one meany you can hear the the the sickness and his voice thinking how you know
[01:31:01] do we just kill our own eyes just kill everyone of course for us you know we're covered in
[01:31:06] we're getting covered in debris we're getting just rained on stuff but we're like thank you
[01:31:14] totally insane so at what point did you guys decide okay we got to get out of here
[01:31:21] or were you still thinking that people just doing this assault up there at that point we were
[01:31:26] pretty much we're pretty much done at that point so scofford is he in sergeant he comes in like I
[01:31:31] said he he was you know right there with us moving up the hill bringing on those those extra guys
[01:31:37] and he started I'm working I'm trying to keep these guys alive he starts working that let's get them
[01:31:44] out of here piece so our lead element it actually made the edge of the village like I think they got
[01:31:54] into at least one building so they're starting to help we got that foothold like we we made it guys
[01:32:01] we won but so he makes that call okay we got to we got to pull those guys back to start getting
[01:32:10] which is actually incredible to even have gotten to that and to be honest with you if things
[01:32:16] now that you know I'm talking about how much I would have just you know bailed out of there
[01:32:19] once you get a foothold in that situation now it's you know it's gonna be CQC us against them like
[01:32:25] you you actually have a pretty good chance you know well you got a hundred commandos or we get them
[01:32:30] up that hill you get a foothold in that building it's like okay or in that in that castle we
[01:32:34] can start taking it out so that's that's impressive man props to you guys for sure yeah the
[01:32:39] fortunately as bad as it started for quite a while through the day it actually kept getting worse
[01:32:48] like I could never stop I think we started to get some laws after we'd done so many
[01:32:55] air strikes but so the the side of the mountain that I went up a little bit later in the day
[01:33:03] like it was just no man's land you didn't go over there if you wanted to not be dead so
[01:33:10] the logistics of trying to get an actual fighting force up even though we had a foothold
[01:33:18] it just became an untenable position so you know I'm working on these guys I'm I'm trying to
[01:33:27] get some kind of hammer control bleeding control on on Dylan
[01:33:31] and you know with Louisa I didn't quick uh quick treatments on him got his wound bandage up as
[01:33:41] well as I could so that way just with all that trauma he didn't end up you know still still dying
[01:33:49] on the on the mountain just from from some something so I'm working on Dylan and
[01:33:57] and I said it based on what he was describing to me like I didn't see the point of like
[01:34:05] in the medical rest they teach you like oh you can you know press on a pelvis down and then
[01:34:10] he squeeze it and that's how you'll see if it's broken or not like I didn't see the point
[01:34:14] and doing that to him just where the wound was like something in there's broke he's not going
[01:34:22] to benefit from me jumping up and down on it to find out again dude your your pelvis is broke sorry
[01:34:29] about that so but he was also describing like oh my foot doesn't feel like it's straight like
[01:34:37] like nothing feels like it's lining up right and it wasn't because the we'd find out later
[01:34:42] the bullet had gone through is from the moral head so shatter that did a bunch of damage to
[01:34:49] the pelvis itself so I'm just seeing this and I was looking at what I what I can physically see
[01:34:57] I don't think it hit an artery but if it hit the pelvis and it's been a while since I was
[01:35:05] a medic but you know I remember having those those numbers in my head like okay I'll
[01:35:10] pelvic fracture is gonna cause this much bleeding and a femoral fractures gonna cause this much
[01:35:16] bleeding and trying to process those things like okay he's not he's not bleeding out but he's still
[01:35:22] gonna bleed out on me so it was so high up you couldn't put a turn again on it couldn't really
[01:35:31] doing things so it just came up with I'd you know that I had cell locks he must
[01:35:37] sat a cage and it would just not need to stop bleeding I had a powder of that so I did as I just kind
[01:35:46] of started pouring that on the wound and then taking my fingers and shoving it into the wound because
[01:35:52] the wound was so small and three wounds are yeah not big so just started shoving that in there
[01:35:59] trying to get as much in as I could just repeating that process over and over until I felt like
[01:36:05] my head enough I don't know just it was just kind of gut call shoving fingers in your body
[01:36:13] to be like hopefully this will help and wrapped him up as well as I could and so while I'm
[01:36:20] doing this that's when the lead element started to get back towards us and they were gonna help
[01:36:29] us start to get these guys out of there and within moments minutes whatever it was of them getting
[01:36:39] getting there that's when we took our next American cashity John Walding
[01:36:46] been hit mother right rightly just below the knee basically stampitated is like right away
[01:36:53] I was hanging on by a little bit but it just stampitated it so the hemostatic agents that are out there
[01:37:01] they've gotten better now but at the time it was you have to hold pressure for five minutes
[01:37:07] otherwise maybe the clot will break and then now he's gonna bleed inside there and you'll never see it
[01:37:13] so start yelling at somebody get a turn to get on him they do and now he's just stacked up
[01:37:21] you know taking a more more real estate for us so our team started and it's got he's
[01:37:32] trying to figure out okay now we have another casually so we we had it another negative and
[01:37:41] we lost a positive because now it's that's a due to can't help move and so you know at that point
[01:37:47] he's very I know at this point it's very clear we're done with the mountain we just need to go home
[01:37:55] so you know we're still still we're gonna then I know I was working on on Dylan
[01:38:02] and Scott ends up getting shot for the first time in the chest plate
[01:38:09] and so we're on over to him at this point check him you know hesitate to say he's fine
[01:38:18] but he's fine the chest plate did a good job he's he's obviously gonna feel that for a few days
[01:38:26] so I go back keep trying to package up these guys a little bit more and we're just
[01:38:32] you know it's it's tough not to gloss over like minor wounds like you know this guy just got
[01:38:42] more sharp no ones like quick check you're fine move on one of our commandos at some point
[01:38:48] in all of this another one of our commandos got shot in the head and he dropped instantly and
[01:38:55] like well that dude's 100% dead but later we pull him back over and like he's actually still alive
[01:39:04] he was he just decided to take a little nap out there on the edge of the on the amount of
[01:39:10] but it you know it there's weird things bullets do it it dented his head but it didn't
[01:39:19] I didn't kill him so we're just continue just to accumulate these problems and so working
[01:39:29] Scott ends up turning around to say something to us and that's when he got shot again this time
[01:39:37] in the left arm and almost the ampidates his left arm but not nothing compared to
[01:39:43] the visual image that Johnson had and I think it was the same bullet was it a bullet right after
[01:39:54] on a burst I can't say for sure but it was at the same time that he got shot in the left arm
[01:40:00] I got hit in the head and so I had my helmet back on at this point so I got hit in the head and so
[01:40:08] working on doing it and I'm trying to ask him like am I all right like I don't know
[01:40:18] but you know trying to do like butts waves are trying to figure out if there's so much blood
[01:40:23] I can't even tell everywhere I don't know if I'm bleeding so I'm asking you know I'm asking
[01:40:29] him working on like how am I okay can I can I can I keep going
[01:40:35] but he's like yeah you're you're fine I don't I don't remember exactly what he said but
[01:40:47] convey yeah you're fine so I grabbed your hand. It was the flesh wound. Yeah look I mean
[01:40:52] the helmet the helmet did its job so it wasn't it wasn't didn't do anything to me
[01:40:57] it felt like I hit for the baseball bat and I just how I described it feels like what you would think
[01:41:03] that they would so I grabbed a turn to get right out to Scott put a turn to get on his his left arm
[01:41:13] there's just like a roll there's no where to put people luckily he's of of the serious injuries
[01:41:25] we were he money he's the only ambulatory guy so basically he's self evacuates down the same side of
[01:41:33] the mountain that we'd come up and you know where the fire was continuing to get worse but there was
[01:41:39] there was some guys set Howard and Matt Williams they're doing good work over there and so
[01:41:44] basically he kind of got down there and they see him with his arm and they're like we'll get you
[01:41:53] to take care so they worked him down down the mountain on that one side but that really only
[01:42:01] only work for him because he could do it could move everybody else is is not that mobile
[01:42:11] so Dave Sanders is kind of coming through and you know he's he's trying to figure out a
[01:42:21] route for us and so in in my mind like what I just consider behind me now there's basically
[01:42:30] the cliff kind of just goes straight down but like any cliff there's there's a little
[01:42:36] terrace over here there's a little terrace over there so he he's exploring that route and he comes back
[01:42:42] up and it just comes to the simple like he's like this will work and we're like he's everybody
[01:42:48] and he's guys doing it and he's like they probably won't die well that's better than the
[01:42:54] route right now that's that's a good plan so yeah I got this one section I of one other article I
[01:43:03] pulled out this is it it's somewhere around here and again it's it's like but I just this left a really
[01:43:10] good picture in my mind of what was going on and kind of the how critical the situation is Walton
[01:43:17] Captain Walton was the uh was the element commander he's there and he this is this is talking
[01:43:23] about him and he's got some um quotes in here but this is from the stars and stripes which is like a
[01:43:29] military newspaper overseas and it says Walton feared his force was on the verge of being overrun
[01:43:37] with the insurgents nearing his position Walton reached for grenade and called an
[01:43:42] massive danger close strike expecting it could take out his entire team they were all prepared
[01:43:49] to make the ultimate sacrifice he said the bomb dropped and then he saw an image he would remember
[01:43:58] forever from that fight sure's body draped over the injured man he'd been working on through the
[01:44:05] fight in that moment the strike that we had called in on our own position detonated just above
[01:44:11] us and blocked out the sun as the dust settled ronshire was the first thing that I saw on top of his
[01:44:19] wounded teammates protecting them even to the end when we had all fully accepted that we were
[01:44:26] going to go down fighting ronshire was still thinking of others
[01:44:32] yeah I mean like he says in there it definitely it definitely got to the point where like okay
[01:44:45] this is this is the day uh I don't know how everybody kind of just processed that
[01:44:54] um I know for me there was a point where I just set a quick prayer just asking God help
[01:45:05] my wife Miranda and our our son who at the time was a couple of days shy of three months old
[01:45:11] uh just make sure they're cool with with what's about to happen and then just go back to work and just
[01:45:24] you know taking it in little chunks it's it's too big to try and think of a week of
[01:45:32] over the course the day man the four US critical three other US wounded 2k AA about
[01:45:45] 13, 14, 15 afghan commandos interpreters wounded so you know in just terms of those numbers that's
[01:45:55] too much to deal with but if I just you know this is the worst thing and going on right now I'm
[01:46:00] going to deal with this and then come up for air look around that's now the worst thing so I'm
[01:46:05] going to over there and I'm going to deal with that and so you know just keep taking it on little chunks
[01:46:10] keep working working through it and then at some point you started working towards okay we got to
[01:46:15] get these guys down we're going to start a low one these guys down so uh Dave Sanders figured out okay
[01:46:21] this is this is the least bad option so I just started getting everybody ready to go kind of
[01:46:33] started with okay of these guys who are up here the waste has a really bad injury but
[01:46:43] he's stable enough I gave him a fentanyl allipop so he's not feeling too bad like you're going first
[01:46:51] so we got him I just do a double check on on the guy and then go over to the edge of the
[01:46:59] cliff it's our work item down is and depending on how bad they're there when we're like
[01:47:06] the waste could help himself a lot so I was getting ready get him over to the edge and uh Dave and
[01:47:16] uh why am I free in our combat camera guys name my quarter they kind of take them the rest of the way
[01:47:24] down the hill and then I'd go back up to our little position all right next
[01:47:29] serious one was Dylan okay getting him ready yet I got an IV started on I've got a few different
[01:47:36] things going I got everything as ready as they could send him over all that stuff was ripped out
[01:47:42] and just mangled by the time we got into the bottom but well it is what it is that's that's now
[01:47:49] over to the width later um so then it came time to I got over to uh John Walding
[01:48:02] uh started doing an assessment on him just through the variances of battle and and everything his
[01:48:13] his turn get had been placed properly it um which is vessel sometimes will relax or tension or
[01:48:20] tense up just so he was at that point he's actually building quite refusely um so we had to
[01:48:28] make some adjustments on his turn to get him restabilized just had him hold his leg just give him
[01:48:38] something to do and you know we let lower him down the hill and as we're kind of finishing that up
[01:48:47] like all of the amulatory commando and interpreter cash please they're kind of working their way down
[01:48:53] through all this as well set Howard and Matt Williams are kind of mentioned earlier like they came
[01:49:02] through right behind us just kicking off everybody else that had not got the message it was time to go
[01:49:10] or like CK who would you know been killed they got they got they got him off for us the the
[01:49:16] I can commando you know just I don't really have a great plan for we got him off and we just
[01:49:26] got everybody down started setting up an of a casually collection point down there at the bottom of the hill
[01:49:32] uh you know hallway you're climbing down stuff still exploding you still get in shot at
[01:49:41] uh but by the time we got down to the the valley again it was with a little bit more cover it was
[01:49:53] you know everything that day was just this sucks less than that so I'm gonna I'm gonna do
[01:49:59] I'm gonna do this uh so at that point you know we've got everybody off it got to go through
[01:50:07] recheck everybody now because we've now moved moved all the patients um long since
[01:50:18] out of most of my supplies so then it comes down to well you do need a bad edge but he needs it more
[01:50:26] but you're you're gonna be fine without one uh and just kind of keep making those calls
[01:50:31] how long did it take for CASA back to show up uh so we'd never really got like a
[01:50:43] dedicated CASA back to come in that day we had some black hawks that were supporting the mission
[01:50:49] up there and those pilots were awesome they were like there's wounded we're gonna come in it's
[01:50:57] it's hot they're fine with it they know what's going on so they came in when we got
[01:51:05] uh the first group loaded up and out and then they came in again got the next
[01:51:11] group so basically we got all the critical and all been on ambulatory people out of there
[01:51:18] and then everybody else just you you just gotta walk out of here there's no other now it's
[01:51:24] gonna come for ya uh it was at some point around this time when I'm down down in the valley
[01:51:34] working um it's that point that can notice my arm is starting to hurt a little bit and
[01:51:44] they just look at my arm arms there it's fine whatever just you know if you bang or elbow on
[01:51:51] something you just kind of shake it out and you move on with your day it was later that night
[01:51:59] you know get back to the base after we went and saw the wounded guys going to take a shower
[01:52:05] I noticed I would cut on my arm and bruising around my elbow and I was like well that wasn't there
[01:52:12] earlier uh went and found my uniform and it's got that bullhole in it and I was like oh I don't
[01:52:23] have any idea at some point you took around when when that went through
[01:52:32] bad I was just it's one of those days like it's bad as it was you know you knew
[01:52:38] just an inch this way I think we'd done the math before and it was like we came up with like eight
[01:52:48] inches or something I if the enemy just could move a bullet eight inches over the course of the
[01:52:53] day like move this bullet one inch this way move this bullet this way whatever they you know what
[01:53:01] of just killed everybody like when like guys got shot through the his camel back you know it
[01:53:09] first that it hit like he had a flare in the back there it had done that but that you just
[01:53:13] inch that Dylan who had the bullet skimmed between his armor and his his gear he moved that
[01:53:23] but that's how combat is it how it millimeters inches you train you you get his good
[01:53:31] imperfection as you can and then hope for a little bit of a little bit of luck as well
[01:53:39] you you guys and you I know you lost two well you lost your one interpreter killed
[01:53:45] well C.K. and then one afghan soldier killed yeah but none of the Americans were were killed
[01:53:53] no none of the Americans that's like completely you know and that's a miracle it's incredible yeah
[01:54:00] Bob Barardine he was the afghan first sergeant he was on that SF team those when the blocking
[01:54:12] done valley at some point they came up to kind of help us do that final policing up of everything
[01:54:18] and he was he was he was he was a great first sergeant for them he was leading from the front
[01:54:24] like you should and he caught around just below that chest plate it is a year or two as we
[01:54:30] can't have a dozen much matter but he dropped and that was it so as rough as the day was and as much
[01:54:41] as you kind of go through after the fact like what could I have done better wouldn't could have
[01:54:46] you know been here a little faster than that shot that guy a little bit quicker the only two
[01:54:57] okay there was just there was nothing to be done for us so eventually got comfortable with it all
[01:55:05] because of that and then what when your team what did they even do with your team now you guys come
[01:55:10] back you got all these casualties that they stand you guys down they send you home what they do with you
[01:55:17] no we so after we got everybody all the the one you guys out eventually we kind of regroup
[01:55:26] we go down back back to the infel point get them the helicopters leave wind in a planning it's some
[01:55:33] fire base I don't even know where it was we don't know if we're going back there's another SF team
[01:55:39] there we still got a lot of commandos so we're like back in the game are we gonna go
[01:55:46] I linked up with the the the medical support that was there refit my bag got got everything ready to
[01:55:53] go again like we were gonna go right back but we didn't which was probably the right call for that day
[01:56:03] so then we ended up going back to Jolalabad which is where we were operating at at the time
[01:56:12] a couple of the one guys were there so we went and saw them a couple of the one guys were already a
[01:56:16] boggerman we took care of them we got a senior you know let's see guy Carl
[01:56:25] became a new acting team sergeant we just went about better day and we still we still did another mission
[01:56:35] a few weeks later
[01:56:39] it's just I don't remember so one of the one of the guys a damn plant season out sergeant major
[01:56:48] out there that was his first mission with us and of course
[01:56:53] he was like are they all like this and of course they are like some of them are worse
[01:57:03] welcome aboard stay everybody gets some
[01:57:06] dang and then how much longer was that deployment you guys did a few more operations
[01:57:10] is with your new team sergeant you guys when how did you feel going back out
[01:57:13] obviously that that fight was was different anything we'd faced before
[01:57:25] we had that when when we left whatever it was six weeks later that was that was my last
[01:57:32] combat deployment so I didn't face anything like that again but it when we went back out I mean
[01:57:36] we were ready to go again and I remember on that next mission we went out on
[01:57:48] we're going through the village and our our interpreters are just you know they would talk
[01:57:56] with the bad guys on walkie talkies sometimes they just talk
[01:58:00] talk shit back and forth through each other and so at one point they were like oh these were the guys
[01:58:05] we just I think these are the guys we just messed up a few weeks ago like let's get out and
[01:58:11] then a cowboy came in and did a run and took out a few and they were like second thought let's
[01:58:18] let's call today you know a drawn nose that was the end of that day but so yeah it would be
[01:58:28] it was definitely a day we'll never forget but I'm just glad that you know the team
[01:58:40] came together they got the job done we didn't accomplish the mission we didn't find the bad guy
[01:58:46] we didn't get to bring him back but you know someday's the win is is just we got
[01:58:55] everybody that we could out of their alive and you know we certainly gave them worse than we got
[01:59:04] yeah that's estimated enemy killed was like 150 to 200 and and that that that ended up being
[01:59:13] the most decorations highest decorations handed out for a single day battle since they'd be
[01:59:19] at none more it was for this for this operation that you guys went on and then so when you came home
[01:59:28] what made you decide because you ended up getting out of your army what made you decide you were
[01:59:32] going to get out and I'm getting out of May of 2009 so just over a year later it was
[01:59:39] a lot of different factors like said at my older son was actually born in January of 2008 so
[01:59:52] I came home song born and then right back to Afghanistan and then you know we had other missions in
[01:59:58] this mission afterwards so that you know that priority factor starts to go in there another part
[02:00:12] of it was just I think I always felt like there was something I was supposed to do
[02:00:20] and that seemed like it's good a good thing to check a block with this as I could I could
[02:00:31] think of it's so many different like factors coming at like I there's not a day that goes
[02:00:37] by that I don't still miss the team so wish whenever I hear their out there like I wish I was
[02:00:44] there with them I wish I was you know still doing it but you know I felt like I'd done
[02:00:53] whatever it was I was supposed to do and you know I think I get stuff for any special operations
[02:01:01] guys see all Greenberry Ranger whatever at some point you have to hang it up because
[02:01:07] time is going to yeah it's a young man you're gonna hang it up with you want to or not at some point
[02:01:11] that's it's that game so I felt like you know I'll go out and got my own terms and speak
[02:01:21] yeah and then how did you end up getting into this secret service like what what made you
[02:01:25] look at that and think that seemed like a good call so I think I started applying for them
[02:01:33] what I had about six months ago in the military what Pete during trust on them so
[02:01:42] full disclosure with them I federal law enforcement just seemed like a good
[02:01:48] next transition so I shot them blast out you know the FBI the secret service the DEA
[02:01:54] marshals air marshals everybody and very quickly on I really just liked the personality
[02:02:03] like came with the secret service the the attitude that the people had the dedication of the
[02:02:11] job the focus in a lot of ways you know like like like SF like you have super important mission
[02:02:22] sometimes you have all the resources you need sometimes you don't you're still gonna figure it out
[02:02:25] you're still gonna you're still gonna make it work I really liked that personality that came with it
[02:02:31] so while everybody showed interest in me I kind of focused there and I'm getting hired
[02:02:40] with them a couple months after I got got out of the army and then well what's that on boarding
[02:02:45] like you go through like a boot camp scenario with them because they must take kids out of college right
[02:02:51] you're supposed to have like I remember what the book answer is like three years of real
[02:02:56] world experience after college so from my class you had a mixture some people had military
[02:03:05] backgrounds some people had law enforcement backgrounds some had one was a lawyer just any
[02:03:11] different background so is it like a gentleman's course boot camp scenario
[02:03:16] or for the most part you know coming from from the SF background like I don't know who we need to
[02:03:28] kick out you got to kick out somebody right just to make sure that everybody else who's here knows
[02:03:34] like you know it could happen to you but we had a good class everybody everybody got through
[02:03:40] and but it was I'll say it was about three months of training in Georgia the federal law enforcement
[02:03:49] training center kind of basic information on the criminal investigator training programs and
[02:03:58] basically legal law stuff how to handle evidence all that kind of stuff yeah the basics every
[02:04:04] law enforcement person needs and then you continue on with four more months at the secret service where
[02:04:09] you learn the the two aspects of of our agency both the financial crimes investigations and the
[02:04:16] protection aspects and most people don't know about the financial crimes investigation of the
[02:04:21] secret service they don't think it's about that arm of it well and that's I mean that's why it was created
[02:04:26] a you know president Lincoln signed the secret service into into existence to fight counterfeit
[02:04:35] and because at the end of the Civil War I can remember this statistic like two thirds of
[02:04:41] the currency in the country was counterfeit and you can't rebuild when half of everything is fake
[02:04:50] so you know you signed that and it was soon after that you know you went to a play
[02:04:57] didn't work out for them but then it was 40 years later that we kind of took over the full time
[02:05:04] protection of the president and of course that's our our main mission now well while the majority
[02:05:12] of people in the agency are out there keeping the financial system secured intact obviously the
[02:05:21] number one mission is the president of the vice president's other heads of state or heads of
[02:05:28] government that come in to the country we protect them then you know obviously there are all no
[02:05:36] fail missions like you can all let's something happen to the president or if you have some country
[02:05:44] come in that maybe nobody's you know nobody's ever heard of this dude well we still can't let
[02:05:52] random street violence happen to the sky or or something so you just there's a bad whole spectrum
[02:05:59] that you have to work around so you get done with the training and then where did you where was
[02:06:03] you where did you get stationed did you go to the president's detail or did you go to the crime
[02:06:07] fighting part so the the typical career path is is you go out to one of the field offices around the
[02:06:13] country and and fight crime for a little while so when I got got the offer they offered me a
[02:06:20] couple different cities to start in the Phoenix Arizona sound like the best option so I took that
[02:06:31] yeah my wife and son moved out there right away we bought a house you know while I
[02:06:38] take me to live there I was off a training for several months and then I joined them as soon as I finished up
[02:06:44] and I spent basically the next four years in Phoenix from May 2010 to May 2014
[02:06:56] doing whatever financial crime or so financial crime includes what you have you know you credit card fraud
[02:07:04] you're counterfitting I need to get your number because credit card fraud people are all about
[02:07:09] you know coming after me it's like open access and that's what and when I talk to people
[02:07:16] like yeah that happens it's happening to everyone that's like the main crime right now when I say hey
[02:07:20] there's credit card fraud amy says y'all they happen to me two weeks ago it's happening to everyone now
[02:07:24] yeah it's happening to me yeah happens dang okay maybe I won't call you
[02:07:30] yeah it's it's one of those things I mean there's so many different levels to it like you can
[02:07:37] you know there's the the prudence that you know you'll see the things like oh check a ATM
[02:07:45] see if you see a skimmer at hatch to it which is great advice it's definitely something you know
[02:07:50] something looks weird on a temp so use it but you go to a store and I mean even like target
[02:07:58] that you're these bigger stores oh yeah that's right they had the massive you get hacked
[02:08:02] you didn't do anything wrong like you use the machine machine was security with the
[02:08:08] output at some back level so there's those two aspects of the crime that we're in a chasing
[02:08:14] out because the person who stole all the the card information but they're almost never the
[02:08:20] person who's using it they sell it somebody else so you you've got to pick which side do I want
[02:08:27] a chase today I don't want to figure out who stole it it don't figure out who's using it and it
[02:08:32] kept you pretty busy and then eventually you get called back to DC is that where you got station next
[02:08:39] so I'm station in DC now with the counter salt team for the secret service it's
[02:08:47] which is like the cool like the coolest job right I mean in the secret service let's be straight up right
[02:08:53] there's nothing cool that they say now I'm on the counter assault team of the secret service it does sound
[02:08:57] cool yes and what really means is sitting in the back of the vehicle somewhere for long periods
[02:09:02] of time you know motorcade or something yeah with the full body I'm around everything so you're
[02:09:06] uncomfortable you're miserable complaining about it like why did I sign up for this but
[02:09:11] and there's like 8,000 pieces of security that someone would have to get overcome for you guys
[02:09:18] to get the call but some day it doesn't go so we got that going for us but what I would
[02:09:25] love about that just like with SF is you know to be there you have to you have to volunteer you
[02:09:30] have to go through selection process you have to go through another school we washed out
[02:09:34] between selection and the school itself we washed out about half maybe a little more
[02:09:38] how tight are they you are they on shooting in that school stands are much higher than the general
[02:09:45] secret service could you might be taking shots around the president you want to throw that round
[02:09:52] you know what no pressure yeah that's a little extra level to that you know law enforcement
[02:09:58] every round counts aspects yeah absolutely military you know most of the most of the
[02:10:04] most most of the council you can't just fire indiscriminately but you know if he's generally in that
[02:10:11] area that's why I get in the warm on bullet yeah secret service yeah I got I got in trouble one
[02:10:17] time during CQC training for putting down cover fire in a building I was like you know some
[02:10:23] was trying to cross all the way and I'm like okay I know there's a bag at other mrs our shooting
[02:10:26] at him and you know the instructor is like choco what what were you doing over here and I was like
[02:10:32] where he's like in this you know you're holding this hallway then you just started shooting and I was
[02:10:36] like I was putting down cover fire for the guy that was moving you guys he's like I did it but you're
[02:10:40] really not supposed to do that in CQC and I'm like okay fair enough you know but if the guy
[02:10:45] comes on you look hard and he wasn't coming around the corner when I was cracking round that
[02:10:50] of exactly so you so you you're just that's you going is there a rotation that you're going on
[02:10:56] for that are you like all in all the time pretty three months on three months off do you just are you just
[02:11:01] in a certain area and that's when you're live so they break us down into we we call them we have
[02:11:10] teams and then two teams make up a company and then and then so we have basically four different
[02:11:16] elements so ones on training ones on your days ones on your eating ones on your your meds
[02:11:22] at all time and so yeah your your downtime is to train and then the rest of the time
[02:11:27] you're up protecting right in the man or you know present vice president other people as
[02:11:35] as need support always working and at some point during during that job you you got you
[02:11:46] you went to hospital and figured out something that wasn't going too well
[02:11:50] I'd say to the least so you know if you kind of go through the the full story
[02:12:01] what was that late spring early summer of 2016 I kind of started getting a little pain in my
[02:12:08] my right hip a little pain in my back but of course I have some pain I was running around a kit
[02:12:17] for the army for six and a half years you know at that point I've been doing it with the
[02:12:23] count of salt team for two and a half years just you know you're not supposed to do that to your
[02:12:31] body it's not it's not good for you everybody knows it so it was actually in California
[02:12:38] hiking with the Obama family and you know somebody doing a father say we can trip with them and
[02:12:47] you know my hip was hurting my back kind of seized up and like I was just this is not right but
[02:12:54] I go see my dog he's like just stretch some more like or stop doing your your job like well
[02:13:01] I'm not gonna stop so I'm gonna stretch some more pain all kind of kept getting a little worse
[02:13:09] little you know just a little more annoying as as I went since the docking to me
[02:13:17] good answer let me try a chiropractor got some relief for a little while from that and it
[02:13:23] but I just kept getting getting a little bit worse and so he came up with the the differential
[02:13:33] diagnosis to use a medical terms that he was like you probably tore some cartilage in your
[02:13:37] hip at some point and I was like I don't remember doing that and he was like well as active as you are
[02:13:43] he can just happen sometimes so we do an MRI in February of 2017 and then then next day
[02:13:52] waiting on results I still flat to actually fly out to San Diego to do to do some more work
[02:13:59] and that afternoon after I got here he called and he was you know telling us well
[02:14:08] you have a few different use of word lesions you know once I tell you where is what he's like
[02:14:14] you got a few things going on your hip that I know normal I need you to go talk to
[02:14:19] this dock like as soon as you can he didn't even tell me like what the what that dock
[02:14:29] did but like okay he's at this hospital he's this dock I googled him like anybody
[02:14:33] wondering like oh he's an oncologist like so this like of course that call is bad but
[02:14:41] you know now we're getting more information okay this is really not good I took the red eye back home
[02:14:47] and next day get a CAT scan and that's when they find about tumors just everywhere
[02:14:56] what they decided was the primary tumors about the size of a little bigger than a baseball on my left
[02:15:01] long um and by that point like I started thinking like with all the work that I would do
[02:15:10] like I'm just getting out of shape like my run times keep getting a little worse but
[02:15:14] at no point did I think that's what it was so we find out like through that MRI like I'd actually
[02:15:23] I had a fracture on my pelvis just had a baseball on my lung and a fracture on my pelvis
[02:15:33] still working so yeah we go through the process of trying to
[02:15:40] to figure out what's going on find a dock don't really care for him fire him
[02:15:46] go find another dock at Johns Hopkins we really like we're still working with him
[02:15:54] yeah we've been fighting just over two years now and then on top of that your your
[02:16:04] well as I mentioned you guys your ODA team got something like 12 or 13 silver stars amongst them
[02:16:14] it was 10 silver stars three or four bronze though the Air Force Cross for the Air Force Cross
[02:16:22] and you were one of those you were one of those silver stars and they the the government or yeah
[02:16:29] the military basically I forget what year is maybe 2015 or 16 they started doing a
[02:16:38] service-wide review of all of the awards that had been handed out or awarded to see if they all
[02:16:49] all kind of matched up and were where they should be and I know actually a
[02:16:55] three of my guys who had been written up for bronze stars they got they got advanced or they
[02:17:04] got raised to silver stars but they they reviewed year award as well and they came to a
[02:17:14] well conclusion that it should be upgraded and how did you find out about that so
[02:17:18] I of course had heard about the review process that the Secretary defense had ordered
[02:17:27] never gave it a second thought just what's going about my day-to-day life
[02:17:34] I mean honestly I think like most soft guys like just to add a boy and here's your next mission
[02:17:43] that's all any of them expect or want or everything so in August of last year I get the first
[02:17:54] call on on my home phone because you know you still have a one it's part of that triple play package
[02:18:01] you know they get you with the home phone like I don't want a home phone they're like
[02:18:04] because more do not have it like the landline yeah yeah so somebody somebody calls they left
[02:18:13] of they left a voice mail on that is even called a voice mail when it's on the answering machine
[02:18:20] answering I don't know but they they they called and left a message and they claimed that they were
[02:18:26] from the Pentagon and they they said we needed to talk to Ron Cher this is it almost sounds legit
[02:18:35] but it's definitely a scam I'll call him back and just speaking of credit card for here we go
[02:18:43] so I call him up and they're like we need to set up a call between you and a hiring and the
[02:18:47] Odeo official and so I'm like who now like we can't tell you I'm like why we can't tell you
[02:18:55] I'm like well that doesn't sound right so go to send me an email from your
[02:19:03] official dot mill to my secret service email launch it over there will just just
[02:19:13] verify who you are because you say you're from there or me you're at the Pentagon or you're
[02:19:17] doing I get calls from them all the time you know yeah I arrest is always calling me saying
[02:19:23] I'm about to be arrested so they sent me the message confirming who they were and so I
[02:19:35] just not gonna tell me why and they're like no well that's cool I got a family vacation I'm taking
[02:19:40] next week I have this person call me after that but I had mentioned where we're in this
[02:19:53] trip I started getting some new pain so we do some scans we find out I got a little bit
[02:20:00] a little bit of stuff going on and we make a plan to deal with that as soon as we get back from
[02:20:03] our trip so I go on my family vacation we come back and we start creation basically the next day
[02:20:14] just trying to get control again so this person the army they start calling me again like hey we're
[02:20:23] going to set up a day for this person to talk to you and so they're like okay cool do you have any
[02:20:30] idea right now or are you just no my wife and I were trying to like brainstorm like I
[02:20:39] knew about the review process did that even click in your head I think at one point so
[02:20:48] with the email like the the not subject but like your name and then this is my job as an important
[02:20:58] I am I see that and I see what it is so I go go that because I don't know who this person is
[02:21:09] or when it's best to get her so I start going down that chain and at one point we actually
[02:21:14] found out that they're in the long process of the metal on our they're one of the many tears
[02:21:22] but well if I kind of look at each other you know just kind of chuckle it off like that's ridiculous
[02:21:31] but so we're like well maybe maybe you know you're going to witness for some mud
[02:21:37] I get a witness for something I'd signed up for the you know the burn pit registry that's out there
[02:21:44] like sign up for that I'll maybe had something do with any of these numerous things so the
[02:21:53] day I'm supposed to get the call them tell her working that day because my just finished
[02:22:00] ups and downs feel awful and so I get the first call from the military saying are you
[02:22:10] going to take your call later today like yes I'm good then one of my friends ends up calling
[02:22:20] Miranda and says basically standby for Ron's boss and so he gets on the line to talk to Miranda
[02:22:28] and he's like Ron good for a phone call today and she's like yes Ron's fine for a call is this
[02:22:34] the call that we've been talking to other people about and he's like yeah and why are you
[02:22:40] calling we just can't process like why is he now calling us so he's like are you good for your call
[02:22:48] like yeah we're good for our call the army calls me back again you good for your call like yes I'm
[02:22:53] still good for my call I'm gonna run out of battery though if you keep calling me the check
[02:22:58] if my good for my my call or not so a little while later I boss calls back again and he's like
[02:23:05] your call is canceled like why are you cancel my call and you know just trying to run through
[02:23:15] all the scenarios you're had like what why are you doing anything with this and he's like trust
[02:23:21] me it's good and it was like I don't trust you but but okay I have no choice in this matter so
[02:23:32] he ends up calling and he's saying next Tuesday I need you to come into the White House with
[02:23:39] Miranda and you need to talk to the boss of the president's detail
[02:23:46] that makes even less sense than anything that's been happening so far
[02:23:51] so Tuesday it's September 4th we end up he comes by our house gets us brings us in
[02:24:03] into the White House complex and we go over and we start in the boss of the president's
[02:24:12] detail we start off in his office and so he meets us in there he's like you know how I run
[02:24:17] Miranda thanks for coming in we really appreciate it John Kelly wants to talk to you guys
[02:24:26] so of course Miranda and I are kind of looking at each other like trying to do like
[02:24:31] Hansi knows like in kind of what where we we landed is like okay I think I'm gonna get upgraded to
[02:24:39] a cross which is an amazing honor I think and I think the Secret Service found out and since
[02:24:47] John Kelly the Chief of Staff at the time you know former general we have that connection
[02:24:54] like he's gonna he's gonna bring me in to tell me so we we spend some time in that
[02:25:01] that boss's office and he bring us into the waiting room and in the west wing itself
[02:25:06] and so we're sitting there just continuing to wait and then John Kelly comes by he's like
[02:25:14] hey Ron I'm Miranda thanks so much for coming in I just want to talk with you guys for a little bit
[02:25:20] and so he's like follow me back to my office so we start following him down
[02:25:29] Miranda doesn't know the White House so she's just tagging along like we're walking down
[02:25:37] the hallway and I think we pass
[02:25:43] Sarah Huckabes office and she's like oh look she's just you know getting kind of star struck by the
[02:25:49] by the office and all all the things but in my mind I'm like you know I don't want to interrupt
[02:25:56] the Chief of Staff to the President but I'm like sir your office is that way like do you know
[02:26:04] where you work but I'm just long for the ride so walk down the hall we make a couple turns and then
[02:26:14] he makes that left into what I know is the old and so I get I get to that threshold I see the
[02:26:20] President sitting at his desk and as soon as I hit that threshold I can see there's cameras
[02:26:27] so the video and you're still cameras just going crazy just White House internal stuff
[02:26:32] just clicking away at that point it was definitely like oh shit oh Mr. Nako
[02:26:41] today got out of hand so the President gets up he shakes her hand you know he did not expect to see
[02:26:48] me today did you know wasn't wasn't playing on it I honestly can't remember everything you know just
[02:26:58] the usual platitudes thanks for your service I heard you right off the stand like yeah and is like
[02:27:06] did you know you're getting looked at for Afghanistan you know is like well just want you to know
[02:27:13] I just approved you get the congressional Medal of Honor and honestly that point it all just kind
[02:27:20] of went to White Noise I couldn't I don't know what else he said afterwards we have the pictures
[02:27:28] and you can you can flip there and you can see the moment where he tells because I have a
[02:27:32] definite what the are you saying and my wife is starting kind of that happy happy cry
[02:27:40] but yeah so we had had no idea that I was getting I mean I knew generally at things
[02:27:50] were getting looked up but I'm no idea that my packet would stand out and not stand out or
[02:27:56] or anything yeah we got out of there the the the boss that had
[02:28:03] basically found out it was you know government efficiencies like that day I was supposed to
[02:28:12] say the call they kind of went down the hall like does this kind of work for you like I've been emailing
[02:28:17] you from a secret service email address for weeks now but so it was at that moment they were like
[02:28:23] did he work for you and they're like yeah he works for us and he's here in DC and he he has a White
[02:28:29] House pass he can walk in a little White House and it's only once so so they coordinated that they
[02:28:37] made sure the counters all team for that day they were all you know Marine Green Brake
[02:28:45] some were army and a numberina just all army guys who all kind of got it and then they found out
[02:28:51] like as I was finding out and so went and saw them and you know the whole whole thing was just
[02:29:00] super surreal trying to figure out why me why why not why any of it I remember who's soon after that the
[02:29:13] the the curl from the Pentagon she called she's like so you've obviously not talked to him you know
[02:29:21] you know why we're being secretive now like yeah and then she said a lot of stuff about like
[02:29:29] you know how the process is gonna work and and other things and at the end of it it got to the
[02:29:35] point I was like man I don't remember thing you just said but I don't have a uniform and like I don't
[02:29:42] know why that out for 78 nine years or something like age thousand nine is when I got out so this is
[02:29:50] me that's nine and a half years yeah next month will be ten so it was nine and a half years since I got out
[02:29:59] so yeah it was the last thing that I thought was was coming and me I'm obviously
[02:30:04] super humble by but it was definitely the last thing I thought would come my way I still remember feeling
[02:30:15] almost guilty calling my teammates it's a lot them know so like hey can you come to DC on a
[02:30:23] top of first because I'm getting them out of the water and like I felt like I had to apologize to them like
[02:30:29] the team was amazing that day the team did everything and a lot of these guys you know kept going
[02:30:37] for years and years after I got out like I don't know why I'm getting this
[02:30:44] well it's awesome I'm sure they all thought to themselves well the maybe the fact that you
[02:30:49] saved my life and get me alive might be the reason so yeah that's unbelievable awesome story
[02:30:57] um and sounds like there was definitely some good smooth government operating and there as well
[02:31:03] in the end they worked out it worked out to be pretty good secret yeah it's pretty awesome but
[02:31:08] they kept it from you they kept it you know after we stepped out of the oval John Kelly's like
[02:31:13] sorry I had a pull a trick on you okay yeah he's like such an honest guy that he felt guilty about that
[02:31:19] yeah right like such a good guy is like I'm really sorry I didn't do that it's okay so I forgot
[02:31:25] give you and then um how when when you go talking about the cancer a little bit when you go
[02:31:33] in for radiation when you go in for chemo like I you know no no people have gone on chemo
[02:31:40] for it's like crushing physically so with with my treatments we're in a reassessment phase right now
[02:31:52] to figure out what we're doing but for the last couple years I've been on uh it's a
[02:31:59] okay it's super super far out in the weeds but it's a targeted therapy for my for my very
[02:32:04] specific kind of lung cancer and so I take one pill every day and you know it's got me two years
[02:32:13] down the road so the there's ups and downs with it some you know definitely some side effects
[02:32:27] I think general speaking it's better than what you think of as chemo I know it's
[02:32:35] pissed off a lot of keyboard warriors and and the sergeant majors out there in the world that I
[02:32:42] didn't shave for the for the ceremony and I was like well because I had a rash from from my
[02:32:50] treatment so I physically couldn't shave at the time but some people took a fence like sorry I really
[02:32:57] I want I want I want I want that and it was you know I would just that's awesome that's
[02:33:07] all the numeric air could you say oh that guy got the metal of honor you might want to shave next time
[02:33:13] that's that's professional jealousy and it's finest right yeah and so I've been trying to
[02:33:23] chase down too many people but a few of them and like I'll just say you know like this is why
[02:33:27] have a nice day and uh and then what are you doing day to day now so are you still you work
[02:33:33] and right now secret service you have to put any time with them or you on like some medical leave
[02:33:37] right now did you stay in the secret service? I yeah I'm still still with the secret service
[02:33:43] some a few people will ask me now what the metal like secret service just to cover my now
[02:33:48] that's what I did well after you met that but when I was talking my wife you know my wife has
[02:33:52] been talking to your wife and I said something along the lines of like oh you know what we'll
[02:33:59] talk about you know and using the secret to the secret service and my wife said in my wife's
[02:34:03] a Brit so she isn't like fully comprehend American government like an American does but you know
[02:34:09] I said you know we'll probably talk about you know him being in the secret service and my wife of
[02:34:13] course literally says but isn't that a secret? So yeah could cover a cover for your
[02:34:24] cover and operations that you're now conducting yeah yeah no it's yeah so once I once I was a
[02:34:31] diagnosed a couple years ago I just switched over for being operational and counterparts you
[02:34:38] when I'm gonna say operations the have an arm in the operation section got it got it so I just send emails
[02:34:42] to people and I'm I'm a keyboard warrior myself now like you are not working hard enough for
[02:34:47] harder you might want to shave while you're working hard you're by the way yeah and and that's
[02:34:55] uh and then you got your your wife and your kids and how old are your kids? Uh our our boys are older
[02:35:02] son Cameron who said it was was three months at the time of the battle he's he's 11 now and our
[02:35:08] younger son Tyler he's he's eight so you know my wife has you know multiple full-time jobs
[02:35:15] you're trying to keep those kids you know where they need to be when they need to be there like
[02:35:21] with the secret service um I can't remember these exact day count but the last year I was like
[02:35:29] fully able to travel in for the extra level like a hundred and thirty days or something and you know
[02:35:35] at least well like the military time deployments like you're gonna leave in August like okay that's
[02:35:41] in the future I know when it is you're gonna be gone for seven months whereas you know the secret
[02:35:46] service we're dependent on people. Mm-hmm. Does the president want to go over here if he does
[02:35:55] we're going guess what it doesn't matter what we had scheduled next week it's going to happen
[02:36:01] so you know in the hundred three days on sound that bad it's two days here three days there
[02:36:07] are a call it 8 p.m. tomorrow morning you're on a plane at six a.m. get packed so you know she's she's
[02:36:17] she's been she was amazing at balancing all of those things I came came with a job and then
[02:36:25] then I threw in a monkey wrench with the hole I have cancer everywhere it's making more about me now
[02:36:31] so it's because the kids were um what was that kindergarten and third grade I think were the ages
[02:36:42] right I know it's like they were just starting to get a little bit easier and you know she's kind
[02:36:47] of come out for air like yeah hold on I need to I need to challenge you a little more sorry about that
[02:36:53] well it's you know sounds like and I met her today seems like awesome awesome woman awesome family and
[02:36:59] um I mean just a incredible story from for everything that you've done and what you've been
[02:37:05] through what you're going through and the perseverance that you're showing is just um the perseverance
[02:37:10] that you showed and the perseverance that you continue to show is just it's awesome man and probably
[02:37:16] you're probably a good that's a good place of any to uh trying to wrap this up um but you know
[02:37:22] man thanks for coming on and and really thanks for thanks for giving it an example to everyone
[02:37:29] of you know how to how to how to train how to fight and how to live it's uh it's awesome
[02:37:36] well I appreciate saying that and you know I'm not just you know saying this because I'm on your show
[02:37:40] like I I've been listening to your your podcasts for a long time I I've listened to many
[02:37:47] different episodes but there's one in particular where you you know you do the book views and
[02:37:53] uh the a man search for meaning you did that one I think like two or three months after I
[02:37:59] died diagnosed and that was I mean I like to think I'm a determined guy and like I can focus through
[02:38:08] stuff but you know the cancer battles definitely very different than an army battle like again
[02:38:15] we could just gust earlier like if you could shoot me I could shoot you we'll see this is that kind of
[02:38:20] behind this scenes unknown enemy and so just you know hearing about like that book and then
[02:38:27] I mean it went out and got the book read it like just stuff so you know your podcast is definitely
[02:38:33] you know not only on those long boring nights where you can't sleep because this this
[02:38:39] hurts and that hurts like something to listen to but it's definitely been very meaningful to
[02:38:46] me and in those respects so I really appreciate it and hopefully hopefully with someone or
[02:38:54] you know interesting today oh man no it's that's it's awesome and we'll we'll keep doing it
[02:39:00] echo speaking of the podcast speaking of you know taking the fight to the enemy scene and on scene sure
[02:39:10] yeah big time I know you like to you know give us some ideas some some help along the past
[02:39:16] yeah I have a question first okay so when you got hit in the arm that time that you didn't
[02:39:22] realize it or whatever like what was that like a ricochet or something just the bullet dude yeah but like
[02:39:28] what was you know what happened with it I mean it's the tiny as little scar you can barely see it
[02:39:35] it's like like it just barely grazed you kind of thing yeah grazed I mean when I when I got the
[02:39:41] uniform off I mean there was there was like there was cut there was bleeding there was bruising
[02:39:46] like I said it couldn't because it's okay so much stuff is going on that like boom yeah you get hit
[02:39:52] but then it kind of gets blended in with all the rest of the chaos kind of thing yeah I mean so much
[02:39:58] with the the air strikes stuff we were talking about like stuff was stuff was just hitting you
[02:40:03] so falling on you stuff was it was just stuff was always going on so yeah I was hit shot you know
[02:40:14] hey yeah you know what else is crazy is I just you know like echo doesn't ever write anything down
[02:40:22] during these things and you made that statement like probably like 45 minutes ago but echo
[02:40:27] has just been sitting there thinking like dang what happened yeah well it can be expanded on that
[02:40:31] yeah you were so excited come I got that question I'm coming at you wrong
[02:40:37] well yeah you sort of wonder because you just sort of mentioned it you know like all kind of like
[02:40:42] on your work Terminator 1 of first one where they kind of recover from the shootout and then
[02:40:46] they're under the bridge and then and they got she um sorry kind of goes hey like what's up you
[02:40:51] know he goes oh yeah he got me right there and just sort of glosses over it she's like you
[02:40:55] you got shot like oh what's up that's how I was feeling with you you know I'm saying well
[02:41:02] luckily I mean it what was I did did you shot it but luckily you know for my sake and for
[02:41:08] rea the people just not knowing when it was yeah it wasn't worse because it's not gonna be deal let
[02:41:14] let me keep keep going about about about about the job yeah it's crazy now no meters and inches
[02:41:24] no meters and inches but yeah so yeah if we're staying on the path speaking the witch okay let's
[02:41:31] start with origin forging up in Maine American made company American founded company it just an
[02:41:39] American company I think there it sums it up yeah but they go deep with American made though that's
[02:41:43] the thing true so anyway so you're doing jiu jitsu which we all are you want to get you get it from
[02:41:49] origin all made in America new gear out by the way out a real good on have you used it yeah I know
[02:41:56] you're kind of off the jiu jitsu for a little bit yeah yeah got a little got a little dinged up in the knee
[02:42:02] area but you used it yes good assessment so legit as we say in the industry yeah yeah
[02:42:11] also rashguards on there even the existing geese are good our exceptional actually they're the
[02:42:19] best in the world factually made by jiu jitsu people in America with American made
[02:42:23] products how much here you are as did you do how much rolling did you do we did a fair amount
[02:42:34] and then at some point like I mentioned one that the jiu jitsu are to show it up and kind of reset
[02:42:41] the way we're training we did a little less rolling and he found some I just outside for it brags
[02:42:49] like I just meant in fights and I think he was from Miami he's like I've been in fights in Miami
[02:42:55] for years and years he was really good at it apparently so we did a little less rolling with him
[02:43:01] because he you know kind of brought up the point like with all the stuff you're carrying if you end
[02:43:05] up on the ground that's not a good day for you yeah well let's end up on the ground the new
[02:43:11] better no one you're like even with all that stuff on yeah so yeah we he kind of just taught us a
[02:43:17] different way you know fighting if you get on the ground yeah get back up it's great as you can
[02:43:24] yeah that's I always say like the primary the primary purpose of jiu jitsu in the self defense
[02:43:28] situation is to get up and get away from them not to put a triangle on them or put some kind of
[02:43:33] a you know pull guard on the guy like yeah that's not smart no and the other funny thing is
[02:43:41] like I always you know I always talk about jiu jitsu being important and all that stuff
[02:43:45] but like in the seal teams people would get really in the combatives which is cool I'm down
[02:43:50] with being in the combatives I am totally into combatives I'm totally into MMA and jiu jitsu and
[02:43:56] wrestling and boxing and mojitai and whatever else I can find that is effective but if you have a
[02:44:02] choice between being really good at shooting your guns and being really good at arm walking
[02:44:08] people if you're in the if you're in the military it's better to be good at shooting your guns
[02:44:13] now luckily I'm here to tell you you can get good at both but prioritize being able to shoot
[02:44:18] really well yes well most of my workouts now with with the whole cancer thing are just
[02:44:24] walks but not I about check out one of these keys and to walk around the oh wait don't you
[02:44:28] like in what we get we get you get you keys for your kids too because your kids should be doing
[02:44:34] jiu jitsu that's for sure if you agree but also on there there are a pair of items fashionable
[02:44:42] we don't know if you don't like the word he doesn't like the concept I get it but the fact remains
[02:44:48] Pete you know so Pete Roberts found her of origin yeah it was a little bit of an ambition
[02:44:53] Pete my partner up in up in Maine he's got like a little he's got a little fashion sense to
[02:44:58] do you know a little sprinkle of it which I have zero so there's a contrast there you know people talk about
[02:45:06] color what I have to say that yeah yeah yeah as long as it's black yeah or gray or again it
[02:45:14] yeah so anyways anyway also supplements what best kind of supplements join supplements apparently
[02:45:20] when we were young we're about the same age I've estimated when were you born right about 78
[02:45:25] I'm at a different for you yeah so you're one year younger than me nonetheless back when we were young
[02:45:30] we thought what protein supplements right create member creating yes and once I call
[02:45:36] yeah that's the creating that's so much of that stuff no as it turned out
[02:45:40] that's not even as important not even nearly as important as joint supplement so
[02:45:44] jocco of course makes supplements jocco joint warfare for what anti-inflammatory stuff
[02:45:52] glucosamine congenital super krill oil krill oil very important for your joints um keeps you in the
[02:45:58] game even at our age I am tripling up on joint warfare right now to help the recovery process
[02:46:07] of my day oh yeah man the joint war and the krill oil combo whatever when you're consistent
[02:46:12] I mean you could stay consistent so I get it but I have a experience with inconsistency so
[02:46:17] when when I get consistent man it's like you're on this like road like you know he could
[02:46:24] dinged up or whatever but like you go it's like they heal up so quick and I don't want to make like
[02:46:29] oh you're like what's the kind of the X man guy who heals over him I'm not necessarily saying
[02:46:34] you're like Wolverine but you feel like you kind of are Wolverine like you when you get you know
[02:46:38] how like me anyway when I get hurt we're like dinged up on like dang how long am I out now you know
[02:46:44] a week two weeks whatever like with this I like I don't even worry about it just in the game just
[02:46:49] in the game consistently taking it so I dig it this is what I'm saying well since you mentioned Wolverine
[02:46:54] I'll say that with my you know SF and then cancer like we spent more time my wife and I
[02:47:01] talking about the possibility that that phone call was somebody gonna enroll me in the dead
[02:47:06] we're all okay then with any man else we'd literally like conversations yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[02:47:13] yeah given everything you know yeah you might be a good candidate for this new program we're putting
[02:47:18] together my little little daughter she watches those what is it Avengers so she watches that stuff
[02:47:27] does that have Wolverine in it? no right no that's X man X man is okay well she watches those things
[02:47:33] it's one of but the other day and she's also kind of gobble right because she's nine and she
[02:47:38] kind of she's a little bobble you know I mean and she's nine but the other day I started to
[02:47:43] start at this whole like thing with her where I was kind of telling us like yeah you know
[02:47:47] because I was saying oh my knee I was like you know my knee it'll heal up quickly and I said
[02:47:51] then I said then like I got the little idea in my head of something creative to play a game to play
[02:47:56] sure and so I said like yeah you know it's weird sweetie because whenever I get into it it heals
[02:48:01] up really really fast it it's really weird it's always been like that well not always I
[02:48:08] and then I started saying well you know one time it's really weird but I had this weird memory of like
[02:48:14] when when I was in the navy and I went to the doctor and then I didn't remember things for a while
[02:48:19] and I remember like then putting things in me and her eyes were so big she was so stuck
[02:48:25] to her about another minute and she thought I was blown because I started up when you start on
[02:48:34] when something comes from them right so it was her that said like oh how long you're gonna be
[02:48:39] hurt for so she initiate this whole conversation yeah it gives me a massive advantage in this trick
[02:48:44] about to play because I'm playing the trick based on on her reality right yeah I like you just
[02:48:50] came out of the blue come on the tree with some trick or some conversation no it's part of what she
[02:48:55] she ran an asthma you know I wasn't just sitting there plotting on it yeah kind of so that's
[02:49:00] kind of like you think how you make like when you when you come up with a plan or correction to a
[02:49:07] plan or whatever like how you lead people and I see what you're doing when you do it but it's
[02:49:11] still works by the way so you lead people to think that they made the plan yeah yes you just did
[02:49:16] that to your daughter yeah she's not in the practice under yeah yeah that's how I see again
[02:49:20] I know I get it fully yeah check nonetheless supplements more kids well additional proteins
[02:49:27] yeah yeah I still don't neglect the protein don't get it wrong I just find the joint supplements to
[02:49:31] be somebody asked me on Twitter if I was on growth hormone or because of the way I looked
[02:49:38] and uh reasonable though I said I was actually it was actually supposed to be a derogatory
[02:49:44] comment because it was one of those little clips that someone put up with me talking about something
[02:49:49] and and then someone with the the shot and then said that why would I listen this guy who looks
[02:49:55] ex been on growth hormone in my life right and uh and I just replied back like I've never been
[02:50:02] on any kind of growth hormone unless you count steak so anyways I have fun on Twitter yeah
[02:50:13] that's how I know you have Twitter I don't use Twitter that much I'm trying to try to
[02:50:21] figure out Instagram thing yeah Twitter just still doesn't make sense my brain Instagram is also
[02:50:27] can be fun but Twitter is basically just a bunch of one miners it's just a bunch of one miners
[02:50:34] that's all it is one miners and it's just 24 hours a day if if you want to sit there and make
[02:50:38] one miners all day long you know that's what you can do with that thing it's a good way to put it
[02:50:43] it's just one money and then what's what's lame about it or good about it depending on your perspective
[02:50:49] is if you and I are having a conversation and you say something anizing like I hit it that took
[02:50:55] a little quick thinking with Twitter you could actually sit there and look at it for 12 men you could
[02:51:00] look up words even the dictionary if you wanted to and you could say oh this is gonna be really
[02:51:05] windy you could plan it out you can do some research and then you can respond and for all
[02:51:10] anyone knows you just looked at that and just threw it out there so you just got the notification
[02:51:15] yeah you just saw it and I'm just throwing out this advanced shot that gets you
[02:51:21] whereas the reality is that's not what I'm having so it's a really interesting now I will say
[02:51:26] sometimes because I go on to Twitter and I reply like a lot at once because I don't sit there
[02:51:31] and look at Twitter all the time so then I go back and I just reply really fast so a lot of times
[02:51:35] I will do things that are you know just like in a case that I make mistakes you know there's someone
[02:51:43] on Twitter called the there's a Twitter thing called grammar police yeah what do you mean like
[02:51:47] an hour or just a comment on it's an account okay I used and I was an English major
[02:51:53] Ron and I know you're an economics guy okay you're in the numbers I'm in the letters
[02:51:58] so I put your and again I'm tweeting at a 47 tweets a minute I'm just boom boom and I used
[02:52:08] your y-o-u-r instead of y-o-u-r apostrophe-e
[02:52:18] you even said apostrophe-e-r-e
[02:52:21] and so then and so then up pops like probably an hour later up pops grammar police and it says
[02:52:30] and it's it's really I actually love the way they do it they don't they don't they're not
[02:52:34] disparaging to you they just say for your information you used the wrong your the proper
[02:52:43] you know the proper grammar in this scenario would have been to use
[02:52:47] y-o-u apostrophe-e thank you and please correct yourself next time it signed grammar
[02:52:51] peace so I like the grammar police that's a good account yeah thank anyway so it's an actual like
[02:52:58] account the kind of police like a person it's not a boss somebody's a server well it may be odd
[02:53:03] it may be a bot but it's a grammar police account you can follow I should probably follow
[02:53:07] the grandmothers I'm going to what are the pictures they share them just yeah Twitter
[02:53:12] Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter
[02:53:13] Twitter Twitter Twitter Twitter yeah yeah okay i mean I guess insin gestellt you could just
[02:53:17] you they could have they could have blown up a picture an image of my incorrect you know
[02:53:21] message of or it no were who would just slide in the comments but right because you would
[02:53:25] and early you don't need a picture for comments so it'd be like sure what youine
[02:53:29] you know we think and then they'd just slide in the comments but they should know
[02:53:34] that hurts because like I was an English major
[02:53:37] There, there, there, there.
[02:53:38] Only way you'll learn though.
[02:53:40] Yeah, there you go.
[02:53:41] Uh, we got to eat some warrior kid milk for your kids, Ron.
[02:53:46] Do you, when you were a kid, did you ever drink strawberry
[02:53:50] quick?
[02:53:51] Yes.
[02:53:52] Did you like it?
[02:53:53] No.
[02:53:54] Okay, what about chocolate quick?
[02:53:55] Yes.
[02:53:56] Did you like it?
[02:53:57] Yes.
[02:53:58] Okay.
[02:53:59] There you go.
[02:54:00] Well, for me, strawberry quick was kind of like a big thing
[02:54:03] for me when I was looking at it.
[02:54:05] The fake strawberry flavors, it's so hit and miss.
[02:54:08] Yeah.
[02:54:09] Well, either one, if you happen to like strawberry quick, basically
[02:54:15] are this kid's protein drink tastes exactly like that.
[02:54:19] It's delicious.
[02:54:20] It would be, it's delicious to me.
[02:54:21] It wouldn't be delicious to you.
[02:54:22] I guess you'd spit it out.
[02:54:23] I would spit it out.
[02:54:24] I'd be polite.
[02:54:25] I'd be so drinkin' me like, oh, this is good.
[02:54:27] Thanks for that.
[02:54:28] Uh, if you were doing that kind of, you're spotting it.
[02:54:31] Yeah, so you'd be cool about it.
[02:54:33] Well, your kids, hopefully they have better taste
[02:54:35] but the new.
[02:54:36] I definitely like it.
[02:54:37] Well, this stuff is amazing.
[02:54:38] So anyways, that's where your kid mulk.
[02:54:40] And it doesn't have any sugar.
[02:54:41] And it's actually good for you.
[02:54:42] It's got protein and vitamins and probiotics.
[02:54:44] It's awesome.
[02:54:45] So anyways, that's that.
[02:54:46] Also, chocolate store.
[02:54:47] It's called Jocco store.
[02:54:48] That's where you can get a pair of.
[02:54:50] Jocco apparel.
[02:54:51] It's a good thing.
[02:54:52] It's so fashionable.
[02:54:53] Yes.
[02:54:54] Well, you know, you see that I caught him in this.
[02:54:56] Yeah, big day.
[02:54:57] And try going there.
[02:54:58] The thing is it's like it's not even fashionable.
[02:55:00] But here's the thing.
[02:55:01] So snug. I had to sneak in covertly and insert elements.
[02:55:06] Sprinkles.
[02:55:07] A fashion.
[02:55:08] Pete Roberts style.
[02:55:09] Not quite that hardcore.
[02:55:11] Hardcore fashion.
[02:55:13] It's like, but it's like Zoolander.
[02:55:14] Yeah, you're mine.
[02:55:17] I'm like Zoolander.
[02:55:19] And you're my, the, um, the, so, so Jocco's design, right?
[02:55:24] It's like his thing.
[02:55:27] It's like not even design.
[02:55:28] The font he uses is like computer font.
[02:55:30] font literally not so it's like oh see our whatever so he's like you know just
[02:55:34] playing in cool screen you know we'll put it on the shirt I'm like cool so I look
[02:55:38] at I'm like okay I dig it but at least I made the shirt like the shirt material
[02:55:43] it's like you know a blend and all this stuff it's not like some cheap what he
[02:55:47] call like a boxy rug it I don't call anything I call it a shirt yeah see and
[02:55:53] that's my point right there super saying so the designs are gonna be super
[02:55:57] basic non-fashionable but when you get the apparel you can be like oh this is
[02:56:02] really wearable stuff is really nice that's what I predict you'll think you
[02:56:06] know if if if history's in the indicator but anyway uh t-shirts on there we've
[02:56:11] got some light weight hoodies on there which jock or even down for the light
[02:56:15] weight hood because so far people everyone now every single person who was
[02:56:19] like siding with jock on in real life I'm not talking about internet
[02:56:22] siding with jock will say yeah hoodies are for like when you're cold you
[02:56:26] know a heavy hoodie otherwise why even wearing a hoodie just where I
[02:56:29] sure right everybody you know everybody okay let's talk about something
[02:56:33] you're just ridiculous you know light weight hoodie have changed
[02:56:37] their mind everything is my favorite human being oh good deal yeah oh
[02:56:42] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[02:56:45] he's like I was wrong yeah this hoodie is outstanding oh yeah factually
[02:56:49] already knew that that's why we did it like with hoodie's but he's just the
[02:56:53] rash guards for jits to end of this life and life man you know some
[02:56:58] women stuff hats all some cool stuff I think it's cool people seem to
[02:57:03] think it's cool going there you like something get something jock or store dot
[02:57:07] con Ron how do you like that how do you like the tea is really good definitely
[02:57:13] wait it's the best to you ever tried it's better than strawberry quick it's way
[02:57:19] better than strawberry quick I definitely would drink this strawberry quick
[02:57:23] I mean if it has extra benefits of the probiotics and the protein maybe I'll
[02:57:28] drink a little extra but cool if it's just strawberry quick now Ron has been
[02:57:33] drinking jock a way tea with pomegranate anyways the good thing about it is it
[02:57:40] after you finish this can you can deadlift 8000 pounds and that's that's
[02:57:45] proof it's pretty good to 100% proven as a as a form an eight-fomer
[02:57:49] 18 delta medic I can help you run through the test and you'll see it's a
[02:57:54] hundred percent
[02:57:57] make sure you subscribe to the podcast if you don't subscribe to it already
[02:58:01] which is kind of ridiculous you know yeah let me do you know oh oh and I just
[02:58:07] read and review yeah a guy said he was going through like his top five podcasts
[02:58:15] and then our podcast came into his world as this is the podcast that I most
[02:58:22] subscribe and unsubscribe to okay and it says I subscribe to it because it's
[02:58:29] got great information on leadership and human nature and history and war he was
[02:58:35] but I unsubscribe to it because they spend a lot of times on some episodes
[02:58:42] talking about jiu jitsu which I don't do and this this wasn't a review on
[02:58:46] items this was a review that he wrote in a blog and tagged me in it on Twitter
[02:58:52] his own blog for his own blog because people tag you in their blog so you
[02:58:55] read it and repost it this is great so I read it and I just commented back to him
[02:59:02] I said it sounds like you need to start doing jiu jitsu that was a problem later
[02:59:09] so there you go whoever that guy was seemed like a nice enough guy but didn't
[02:59:14] want to do the jiu jitsu that's that so yeah subscribe and don't forget about the
[02:59:18] warrior kid podcast user oh my daughter has a question for the warrior
[02:59:23] could podcast yeah we'll go over it later okay pass it on to Uncle Jake if you
[02:59:26] would yeah so yeah that's a good one warrior kid podcast is have you ever
[02:59:33] listened to warrior kid podcast for kids that I have not now it's what it is
[02:59:37] the basic principles of life I try and convey it in a way for kids that they
[02:59:49] can understand it that they can appreciate it and that they listen to it I'm always
[02:59:54] quoting you with my kids like discipline he goes for you right right
[02:59:58] do the right thing and then I'll let you do more and you know what it doesn't
[03:00:04] matter who you are is a dad your kids are not going to listen to as much as you
[03:00:10] want them to so it's good if you come at them from another angle the other
[03:00:14] angle is Uncle Jake who can tell him about discipline he was freedom so
[03:00:18] anyways warrior kid podcast check that out and don't forget about that warrior
[03:00:22] kid soap from Irish Oaks Ranch dot com aiden's making soap is a kid but he's
[03:00:29] got his own business and he's making soap on a rope right yeah yeah I've got
[03:00:33] all these five fifty court little piece of paracord yeah it's good so you've got
[03:00:36] that going on and then you got youtube subscribe to youtube so you can see
[03:00:42] echoes legit videos and if you want to know what Ron sure looks like very
[03:00:46] nice by the way then you can watch this complete episode on youtube you can
[03:00:53] also see echoes it he has videos you know it's a lot of time and effort into
[03:01:00] which means that he puts a lot of time and effort into and some of them are
[03:01:05] good some of them he puts a little too much time and effort into you know okay
[03:01:09] cool the same yeah yeah I dig it what else psychological warfare if you're
[03:01:16] having if you're having issues a lot of issues or just a few issues on the
[03:01:21] path you know moments a week this where you don't want to get up as early as
[03:01:25] maybe you think you should and you don't feel like it that's what it is when you
[03:01:29] don't feel like it this is a little bit of help to push you through any moment
[03:01:33] diet stuff wake up stuff workout skipping workout stuff that was a big one for me back
[03:01:37] in that day by the way um despite this little album black workouts
[03:01:41] not anymore that right you know sure no no nothing arms work out either so anyway
[03:01:53] you get this albums called psychological warfare little tracks on there of
[03:01:57] jockel telling us helping us through our moment to weakness really easy 100%
[03:02:01] effectiveness my experience you know cool check out flipside canvas it's my brother Dakota
[03:02:08] Myers Dakota Meyer he is taking cool images yeah and putting them on canvas vinyl in
[03:02:19] America here and sending them to you if you want them you know he has a straight up
[03:02:26] jocco series now good yeah it's so epic anyways check it out support Dakota and to
[03:02:34] what Dakota's doing you know flipside if you want if you want costume stuff just hit Dakota up
[03:02:39] on Twitter because Dakota's like the nicest person you seem pretty nice to run but Dakota's
[03:02:44] really nice yeah and he's always want to help out so yeah there you go check it up flipside canvas.com
[03:02:51] also on it on it dot com slash jockel by the way go that that's the way you can get your fitness gear
[03:02:57] by the beef for home you got a commercial gym whatever you like also some good
[03:03:01] what would you call the elk bars snack food yeah like yeah yeah it's like which help you
[03:03:10] hate to even throw the word health yes because the stigma like the cliche like you
[03:03:14] are getting chalk yeah anyway there's a lot of good stuff on there on it dot com
[03:03:22] get something from there to yes keep you on the path and in the game as it were a bunch of books
[03:03:29] I ran a bunch of books Mikey the dragons that's for younger kids way the warrior kid
[03:03:37] that's for medium age kids marks mission is the fall one to that the new book three of way
[03:03:44] the warrior kid is coming out it's called where there's a will it will be available should be
[03:03:50] available right now how you like that for pre-order on Amazon this week was freedom field manual
[03:03:56] extreme ownership first book I wrote with my brother life babin about combat leadership and how you
[03:04:04] can apply it to your business into your life then the dichotomy of leadership which is the follow-up
[03:04:09] to that book which is also about leadership but it gets granular on those principles and on
[03:04:15] being a balanced leader which is the best kind of leader to be actually on front that's uh
[03:04:21] my leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership it's me
[03:04:24] life babin jpe to know Dave Burke good yeah good deal day Burke Flynn Cocker Mike's really Mike
[03:04:30] byma and Jason Gardner has really nice Jason Gardner doesn't really have a nickname
[03:04:36] yeah well no tomato time on that one go to us on front dot com if you want us to come and help
[03:04:42] you work through whatever issues you have in your organization it will do with leadership the
[03:04:48] master coming up may 2324th in Chicago September 19th in 20th in Denver December 4th in 5th in Sydney
[03:04:55] Australia these are leadership conferences events gathering this yeah so it's a master that's
[03:05:07] we call it we call it the master and if you want to come to it you've got to register pretty quick they
[03:05:13] all of the ones that we've done these are 789 this year the all of them have sold out so these are
[03:05:19] going to sell out as well if you want to come get there early I won't be able to help you
[03:05:25] if you contact me a week prior to the event and say hey I really wanted to go can you
[03:05:30] you you know can throw me a couple tickets and I know you for I went to high school you with you or
[03:05:35] whatever I can't help you you can't come don't be mad at me then yeah yeah online that is our
[03:05:46] online training for leadership for people that can't come to the master or you got a big company
[03:05:52] with 28,000 employees and you want them all to get trained in the leadership principles that we
[03:05:58] teach at echelon front go to efonline.com and you can get your whole organization aligned
[03:06:06] and running in the right direction and we've got efo Overwatch as well and what we're doing with
[03:06:11] efo Overwatch is taking proven leaders from spec ops and from combat aviation and putting them into
[03:06:19] civilian jobs civilian sector leadership and don't always think you got to hire somebody that knows
[03:06:25] everything technical about the situation hire someone for their leadership capability it's
[03:06:31] easier to teach them the industry than it is to teach someone leadership so efo Overwatch.com
[03:06:36] that's what you need that you need leadership and if you want to connect with Ron he's on the
[03:06:43] inner webs he's kind of young on the inner webs you're not super advanced. I'm trying to to learn
[03:06:55] especially with Instagram and I'm trying to slowly dip my toes into that. The toes are being
[03:07:01] deep. Get that connection with the people who feel connected to the story at all or. Yeah it's awesome. If you do go on Twitter
[03:07:12] it's Ron underscore 396 for Instagram which apparently is Ron's Ron's gonna be the Graham
[03:07:21] he's in the Graham. That's your main one. That's that's my focus. That's your focus. That's your focus.
[03:07:26] That's kind of mission focus and that is Ron underscore sure s-h-u-r-e-r and then we also echo
[03:07:37] Charles and I are on those as well and we're also on the flash book and we are echo is that echo
[03:07:48] Charles and I am not jockel will like echo you got anything else. No. Thank you Ron you're the man.
[03:07:54] Ron congratulations. Well and he closing thoughts Ron. So again thank you guys so much for having me
[03:08:05] today whenever I come to talk about myself I get dining. I love talking about myself like getting
[03:08:16] most of the stuff guys to her. My wife says that I came a green beret and it's the quiet professional.
[03:08:27] You just got you do the mission and you talk about it and then I move over to the secret service
[03:08:32] which is you know as that kind of tagline like standing on the sidelines of history like I want to do
[03:08:37] cool things I want to be there but I never want anybody to talk about me or look at me or
[03:08:43] or do any of that but I appreciate the chance to come here today because you know when I got the
[03:08:52] the metal you know it's part of processing it and trying to figure out what did I want to do with it
[03:09:03] you know like right now from the global war on terrorism we've been fighting for 17
[03:09:09] straight years like green berets you know that's that's where my heart is like they've been
[03:09:14] just out there getting it on the entire time my it's mind boggling to me that I am the only
[03:09:22] living recipient right now representing that group Rob Robbie Miller who was in Alpha 33 was on the
[03:09:29] same deployment as me he here in the metal oven in January of 2008 probably taken the fight to the
[03:09:36] enemy but unfortunately he was he was the first green beret in this war and now in the second
[03:09:43] button the first two can actually get out there and share a share my story not so you can be like
[03:09:50] hey Ron's awesome like Ron's just another dude on a team who had an okay day in a bat in a horrible
[03:09:58] day but so I can tell people that stories like that are going on constantly and you know I'm just
[03:10:07] I'm here to represent those guys who don't care do you you know you can give them give them a word
[03:10:16] not give them a word give them a pat on the back they don't care they just they believe in the
[03:10:21] mission they're out there doing the mission they're missing birthdays and and a verse reads and
[03:10:28] all those things for this country and you know that's why I'm here is just to remind people about
[03:10:35] those guys not so much myself and you know to be able to you know just share a little bit of that story
[03:10:44] and then you know also to you know say thanks to my family for being so supportive it's you know
[03:10:56] I mean I'm you know I got to metal because I was you know take care of other people but
[03:11:04] I have a huge support structure behind me my wife Miranda like I said
[03:11:08] I wasn't quizzing me through the QCourse I was where maybe not our first date but by like week two or three
[03:11:18] and I go okay you're in the circle now now you got to help me because I can't give up a whole I want to see
[03:11:23] you for a weekend but I can't give up a whole weekend and that's that he so just the support that
[03:11:29] she's given from then to now to you know having a baby or being pregnant with with some
[03:11:38] green beret who's overseas he comes back sees the baby born like all right good luck with that kid I got to go
[03:11:44] back and take care of people so the amount of support that I've had there and the my kids just put
[03:11:50] enough of all this stuff to just be able to say thanks to them on a bigger front to I appreciate that
[03:11:55] and you know I touched on it a little bit with with my cancer story I definitely don't
[03:12:06] want to be I don't want to be some like sad story like oh this guy sucks to be him like
[03:12:16] or anything I just I just share it just because I know the other people out there who are
[03:12:20] getting diagnosed with cancer and they're getting those phone calls and I remember that I remember that
[03:12:27] first call I got where it was like you know there's nothing you can do today and and he meant like
[03:12:35] it was like a Friday afternoon I just found out the day before and it's going to the weekend but that
[03:12:43] that crush of that well it's nothing you can do like what do you mean and so you know if I can just
[03:12:49] put out that story that there's always hope there's always more you can do and you know the cancer
[03:12:58] fight is not like combat where you get to go punch somebody in the face or shoot somebody in the face
[03:13:03] and and have that like the the cancer fight is you know getting up and eating when you don't
[03:13:11] want to eat so last thing in the world you want to do or you got to work out well let's just go
[03:13:17] for a walk you know like just just those things I just want to you know have a moment to be able to
[03:13:24] anybody's being affected by that just say you know you're you're not alone it's tough it sucks
[03:13:32] however you got there doesn't matter don't worry about I don't I try not to worry for myself why I got it
[03:13:40] but it's just it's it's just the next challenge keep putting your one foot in from the other
[03:13:45] and yeah that's life awesome man well once again thanks thanks for coming on man it's been
[03:13:58] awesome each year and thanks to Zach everybody Zach who kind of linked us up and it was cool
[03:14:01] that he reached out to me and it took us a long time to make this happen with everything that's going
[03:14:05] on in your world and I'm glad we're able to do it so thanks for coming on and absolutely my pleasure
[03:14:10] obviously thanks for your service and your sacrifice for what you did for this country and
[03:14:19] you know not just for what you did for the country while you're in the military while you're in
[03:14:23] the secret service but also right now setting an example for everyone for everyone that's out there
[03:14:31] for me for everyone to to follow and know that we can step up our game that we can go on we can do
[03:14:39] better and we can fight harder and that's what I see when I see you and thanks for doing that for
[03:14:45] me and for everyone else and obviously thanks to everyone else out there in uniform
[03:14:53] that is defending our flag and our country to those that are serving to those that have served
[03:15:00] thanks to all of you out there thanks to the police and law enforcement firefighters,
[03:15:06] paramedics, EMTs, dispatchers, correctional officers, border patrol, secret service
[03:15:17] first time mentioned for the secret service and all the other first responders thanks for
[03:15:22] keeping us safe here at home and for everyone else out there remember that you might have to fight
[03:15:33] uphill you might have to fight against a hardened enemy that has more guns and more people than you
[03:15:42] and even in those situations remember the path of ronshire and the rest of special forces
[03:15:51] ODA 3336 remember to stand by your brothers remember to pick up that weapon remember to put
[03:16:04] one foot in front of the other and remember to keep getting after it and until next time
[03:16:12] this is Ron Shur and Echo and Jocco out