Jocko Podcast 168 w/ SEAL Master Chief, Jason Gardner Pt.2: Lessons on Leadership and Life

2019-03-08T15:00:00Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @jasonNgardner @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:02:14 - Jason Gardner, cont. 2:33:13 - Support: How to stay on THE PATH. 2:59:32 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

and it was like jocco willink predicts the future or something like that because I was with on with jolrogant and jolrogant's like what do you do about these ISIS guys now how could you ever defeat them and I was like if you gave the ISIS problem to like a Marine Corps second lieutenant and said like hey figure on a planet how to beat these guys they could do it it's like there's a bunch of bad guys surrounding them and move through and kill them all that's what we're gonna do but you were harassing me saying like when you're gonna write your protocol book because I've talked about you know how you gotta have protocol for certain situations that are right like you said things that are real emotional things that are moving real quick things that you know you're you need to be thinking about but you won't be able to think clearly about when they're actually going on and that's what you're talking about you know you guys put together a protocol to follow and the navy has one of the teams have one Because it be guys that were all over me guys we like we know everyone you know know everyone on on the west coast know every guy like there are friends and you know now our our platoons that were up north um you know when they kicked off the liberation of Mosul which was the biggest military operations since the invasion of Iraq and there were I believe three different main lines of approach going towards the city and ISIS pretty much controlled everything on the outside guys the first couple days of that there were semi trucks that were loaded with explosive vehicle born ied that was a semi like I don't think you know outside of the moab we don't have a bomb that's carrying that much stuff coming at them um and that's where you know uh EOD chief fine-in was killed on the first couple days when our guys had gotten into an area they were they were partnered up with the the the Peshmurga which are the who are the guys that occurred on the Kurds I went over to trade at and became the command master chief there and then started you know preparing to make making sure all the fundamentals that you'd stayed in place were still there and they were still there the guys were just really hard and doing a good job and then and that was it over running unit level training and and seeing that and then work in myself out of a job getting the the guy that's my replacement set up to take my job and and here's the deal like as I leave naval special warfare they're so good to go and I see the younger guys now that are coming up at every level if people like to complain about the millennials and I really don't see any issue with them because they're doing good but you're going to now like you know what's up you know what you're doing you know what you're stepping into and now retirement you could know I think so I'm really excited but 30 years is a long enough time to where I'm like I'm ready to go. and then I saw a guy running out and snatched up a little body and he's just whaling I thought you know I thought about my kids at home and what those people are going through and how awful it must be and how we just got a redouble our efforts to stop this freaking crap that was going on with ISIL because it is just so unsat because little kids are little kids you know wherever they're from or what it you know and to see innocent shattered like that was rough And yeah, you know, when, uh, when faculty died, like, um, last year, and I was like, the what I felt like all that, yeah, I just felt like all that memory, all that memory, that he had of us is gone. oh he has the experience to make this happen under massively stressful situation so my word to the senior listed guys like you're the action arm this the task commander can't make things happen he's got to he's got to look at what else is going on he's got to figure what the next step is going to be he's talking getting information he's passing information all that stuff is going to he can't take time to go. so when one of their e5s went over and talk to a Marine Corps E5 they were really cool with them they didn't manage their own security like the Marines did security around their camp they would bring dinner out to the guys that were standing watch at night just like it was it was awesome and then everybody there was just you know a real real sense of teamwork and stuff out there so that was good and that that was but you guys did some real tough fighting inside of Mosul Connected to the fact that I wanted you guys to be ready and just you know like the whole down down man thing like it's not easy to carry a down man especially not easy when the guy helps you and he kind of it's in training he kind of jumps up on your shoulder and push his hand in that right spot on your back to stabilize himself and all those little things that they do to help each other out it's not that easy it sucks and. And then we had a scorpion on it and it said like 2008 after you know it had like a label marketing brand marketing like you know made made here in Afghanistan or whatever and so. when I last time I had Jordan Peterson on because he lays out this thing about how the government the government trying to control the pricing of some kind of pelth some kind of pelth and if the government raises the prices every hunter goes and but go goes and gets all these pelts and in terms of into the government and then the government what do they have now an excess of pelts and so now what do they do with them all they don't do anything because there's nothing to do with them because they they don't they don't need it and his whole cycle unfolds where things just don't work with centralized command and things like dora the explorer and the Disney princesses and Thomas the tank engine and all these Mikey and the dragons these things are going to spread and those evil bastards what do they do to try and stop you know what do they do they try and control anything any any form of freedom and especially freedom of speech you know controlling the internet all those things and it's disturbing to see And then we got up and there's no fighting like we're going to cause it keeps us like you get to set in your watch by like okay sons up Bro this isn't just like this isn't just me and there's some guys that did didn't like me you know or whatever it's like it's not just me they're getting coerced and forced into those situations you know that's that's what's actually happening like you said sure is there one out of a thousand that's like so brainwashed that they're like And I was like going to a haunted house and like I enjoy going to haunted houses because I like to go through and something startles me Like you want to just like, okay, let's you know, it's like my my youngest daughter. one of our mutual friends that has a seat pad machine and his wife was like you know when you when you mask comes off you know I'm trying to wake you up so you can put it back on and he's like don't you know don't just leave me alone and then there was some of the stuff where the ISIL had gotten so hysterical with something there was a video they there's one of those you know like do those horrible videos and it was something happened over in Syria and they released a video where they you know they killed like nine guys but they were from the local area and But it just, it's like, I guess it's like so real, you know, like these are things you kind of deal with. hey we're going to listen to these three podcasts and mylay was one of them the other one was steel my soldier's hearts which was an awesome podcast and awesome lessons and they're all awesome lessons but it was all good because guys listen to it and we have discussions and then you know you came in and we've ETC and talked to them and that was such good stuff but go around down that road and then being in all these different situations at the executive level levels of leaderships and the seal teams and I could see in real time I'm like and we're like our admin agai is like hey what step one he goes down he goes all right we need to do this what step two we need to do this there's no way we would remember that we went through it went through the steps one of the things that that i was pretty adamant about is because i had a good idea although i haven't experienced it directly about what my guys had gone through that were there with him You know sleep and diet are a lynch pin like sleep diet and exercise there's three pillars of good health probably is there fourth pillar probably like hypnosis or I don't know those are the big three I would say and getting that sleep fixed up. and you know that's and again that's what that's the kind of thing that that you know there's there's like there's a lot I'm not saying America's a perfect place because it is not but that kind of do you hear a story like that I don't know no you're a new guy you're like I'm going to act like my platoon chief that's what I'm going to do and that's what you do And I kept it real professional with him and then he's like hey we don't know where we're going to put you we don't know what we're going to do with you guys we're working through that. I know that like one of the times that I got to go out to the to the uh to the to basically the flat with our guys who are going advising the system they would be about three blocks back or four blocks back from the front lines um the civilians that live in Mosul would just move away from where the fighting was and then just kind of mingle around just outside of it and then go back to their houses so we were at this this one location where the the guys were providing support to the Iraqi CTS and we had snipers up on rooftops were able to see all the way to front lines and take shots like oh our western culture and lifestyle is going to get overrun negative because western culture on the whole while you said it's not perfect it's still the best thing going and it is completely contagious and even over there in Iraq and in a school that was controlled by ISIL their little kids are looking at the Disney princesses and door of the explorer and you know that stuff western things because it's good it's appealing and that gave me that gave me a tremendous amount of hope

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 168.
[00:00:04] With echo Charles and me, Jockel Willink.
[00:00:08] Good evening, echo.
[00:00:09] Good evening.
[00:00:11] Be a wolf spoke.
[00:00:14] Why is sir do not grieve?
[00:00:18] It is always better to avenge dear ones than to indulge in mourning.
[00:00:25] For every one of us living in this world means waiting for our end.
[00:00:33] Let whoever can win glory before death.
[00:00:38] When a warrior is gone, that will be his best and only bow work.
[00:00:45] So arise my Lord and let us immediately set forth on the trail of this troll dam.
[00:00:52] I guarantee you she will not get away, not to dends underground nor upland groves nor the
[00:01:00] ocean floor.
[00:01:02] She'll have nowhere to flee to and dur your troubles today.
[00:01:08] Bear up and be the man I expect you to be.
[00:01:15] There is some more.
[00:01:17] Be a wolf to start this podcast.
[00:01:20] It's an interesting note that Bayowulf the poem started not as a written poem but a poem
[00:01:28] passed on as a story from generation to generation of the pagan Anglo-Saxon warrior people.
[00:01:34] It was part of their oral history and their oral tradition.
[00:01:38] That's basically what we're doing here.
[00:01:41] Capturing stories from our modern day warrior people.
[00:01:48] Which we are continuing with today during part two of my brother Jason Gardner.
[00:01:56] Part one was the last podcast.
[00:01:57] Number 167.
[00:01:59] If you haven't listened to that one, just stop listening to this one right now.
[00:02:03] Go back and listen to 167 and then when you get done with that you can come back and
[00:02:07] hear the rest of it.
[00:02:09] If you have listened to 167, when here we go.
[00:02:12] We're going to start kind of where we left off.
[00:02:14] What's up Jason?
[00:02:16] Not much.
[00:02:19] We left off yesterday.
[00:02:21] You had basically stayed at Team 3.
[00:02:24] You're going to do an ops tour, an ops task unit, but then you made Senior Chief.
[00:02:29] Then that's where we left off.
[00:02:32] You get done with that and where'd you go?
[00:02:36] Seal team 7.
[00:02:37] Don't want to over the senior and listen to Academy and knock that out because that is basically
[00:02:41] a prerequisite for making E9.
[00:02:44] But it's difficult to get away from NSW for a long time.
[00:02:47] That one was six weeks.
[00:02:50] There's two of them.
[00:02:51] There's another one that's three months and it's just trying to cram that in.
[00:02:56] It is difficult.
[00:02:57] So it made sense to go then and then they they pop me over for a troops senior and
[00:03:02] listed advisor over at Seal team 7.
[00:03:05] For people that don't know what that means, you're going into a task unit, your task.
[00:03:09] Would you guys have a two, put two in task unit or was it?
[00:03:12] It was two.
[00:03:13] And that means explain your position of senior and listed advisor at Seal task unit.
[00:03:19] So there are two seal platoons, which are the two maneuver elements and then over the top of the seal platoons.
[00:03:26] There's myself.
[00:03:27] I was a senior chief at the time and then there was a Lieutenant Commander at the time.
[00:03:32] It was the task unit commander.
[00:03:34] It was the same position that you had in T Bruce.
[00:03:37] And then you were the senior and listed guy in there.
[00:03:39] And I was actually looking at one of my old briefs leadership briefs from the teams.
[00:03:43] And I don't know if you remember this because I haven't, I don't do it when I do it for civilians now.
[00:03:48] But I used to do the roles and responsibilities of everyone inside the task unit and be like,
[00:03:53] Okay, this is what the task unit commander should be doing.
[00:03:56] This is what the senior listed guy should be doing.
[00:03:58] And a key word there is this would a platoon chief should be doing.
[00:04:01] And this is what a platoon commander should be doing.
[00:04:02] One of the key words there should be because there's a lot of leeway depending on personalities and what skill sets people have.
[00:04:08] And sometimes people are capable of doing a part of someone else's job,
[00:04:13] but there may be not so great at doing something they should be doing.
[00:04:16] So you got to figure that out inside of a platoon.
[00:04:18] Now I used to say that when you take a platoon, if you take a platoon, you've got to get to like you pick a number.
[00:04:24] Like you've got to get to a level 10 with the top four leadership,
[00:04:29] many of the LPO, the assistant platoon commander of the platoon commander and the platoon chief.
[00:04:33] Those they have to have a number equal to 10.
[00:04:36] Like you can't have a bunch of guys that are one because that's only a four.
[00:04:39] But if you have a chief, that's an eight.
[00:04:42] Well then cool.
[00:04:43] It's like doesn't really matter that the platoon commander is not that great or the platoon commander is a wand or whatever.
[00:04:49] And that's fine.
[00:04:51] Sometimes you're going to get some guys that are really good at something.
[00:04:54] Sometimes there's people that aren't.
[00:04:56] And as long as you have some good leadership in there, you'll be alright.
[00:04:59] And that's what I realized when I was running trade at.
[00:05:01] You just basically need, you need one leader, one person that knows how to lead.
[00:05:05] Things and everything will be fine.
[00:05:08] But you actually should have two people that know how to lead things.
[00:05:11] So that way if something happens to the number one guy and then they can kind of communicate and then can talk to each other and they can bounce stuff off and they'll just be that like infinitely better.
[00:05:18] But yeah, it's always a little bit different in every task unit.
[00:05:24] And well that was great because that roles and responsibilities brief that you gave.
[00:05:28] Like at the time.
[00:05:31] The the the task unit leadership going through the unit level training was was new.
[00:05:38] And and it was kind of a new position all the way together.
[00:05:41] So it wasn't really well defined.
[00:05:43] I was really like where the hell is my role here.
[00:05:46] So that was really helpful.
[00:05:48] And I think what you and your true PSEA did is you kind of defy because you guys participate in training and not all the troops,
[00:05:58] troop commanders and troop SIAs were going out to every ULT block.
[00:06:03] Yeah, yeah, sure.
[00:06:04] And you guys did everything and then after that that was the standard everybody set that standard and it's a good standard.
[00:06:10] Yeah, yeah and I was lucky because my first deployment to Iraq.
[00:06:15] I had a task unit commander and and a task unit SIA and we both are friends with both those guys and they really.
[00:06:23] So I was watching what they were doing going okay that seems to work pretty well, you know, just looking at how they interacted with me and they said a good example and I kind of just took that when I came back and and.
[00:06:33] That's the position I put myself into was kind of mimicking what those two guys had done and they that were really well balanced, you know, not micro and they're just good just really good leaders, you know, and so I just okay that was cool that worked.
[00:06:46] And so that's what I did and then luckily I got to go through work up and then go to Ramadi so I kind of knew how it, you know, I, I.
[00:06:56] I carve that out and there there it was and then I wrote the roles and responsibilities because believe me when I was when I first took over trade at there would be all kinds of way.
[00:07:05] I just wait late things going on with guys not having any idea what they shouldn't should not be doing because everyone was just going what should I do like you said it was a new position.
[00:07:17] And relatively new position. I mean we had task unit commanders back in the day, but it was they would be completely detached and it is show up hey I'm an 0 3 or 0 4 I'm in charge of you and everyone be like, okay that sounds cool whatever.
[00:07:25] Who's this guy?
[00:07:26] Yeah and you wouldn't see him till the point. Yeah.
[00:07:28] And then now the new thing was you're like there from day one which was really cool how we we evolved that way. Yeah.
[00:07:35] Yeah, no and it's it's as it should be so you get there and.
[00:07:41] From up your platoon's and start going through training.
[00:07:45] Yeah, we start doing work up and so you know the task unit commander.
[00:07:50] He had a lot of experience the both the all the platoon leadership had a lot of experience too so it was it was.
[00:07:59] I would say it was stacked we had great all the way down to like some of our e5s had deployments to Iraq.
[00:08:05] They had good experience so it looked like you know hey this is everything's going to be easy.
[00:08:12] And then we started started ULT went out to the land warfare block which has really always been where I have a sauce pot in my heart because it's it's hard it's dirty and it's mean.
[00:08:28] But you know we trained out there in the desert.
[00:08:31] We were we gone through the first two weeks of the land warfare block which is doing our immediate action drills a lot of our range work our demo all that stuff.
[00:08:41] And then we were coming into the phase the last week which is the field final training exercises and so we're we're in this big classroom and we're getting the brief on you know a feedback on on the brief that we just given for our first operation.
[00:08:58] And after that the your your land warfare senior and listed advisor came in he's like hey everybody listen up.
[00:09:08] Every task unit that's come through here before you guys has had a blue on blue during this training so you need to be really aware of your blue poor's picture.
[00:09:18] And and so I like I'm rolling my eyes and and my internal dialogue as I'm like oh my gosh what a bunch of clowns are you kidding me everybody shot each other that is never going to happen to us.
[00:09:32] You know I'm like heck I used to run land warfare training when I was at a training cell at a team and this just isn't that hard there's no way we're going to shoot each other okay.
[00:09:43] Like.
[00:09:45] Let's just go four hours later.
[00:09:49] It is just mass pandemonium.
[00:09:52] We've we went in we hit a target things kind of we're gone really smooth and then all of sudden everything fell apart we were we had like I think we had.
[00:10:04] Seven down guys that we were tracking and then but that we couldn't even get clear word because everybody was talking on the radio at the same time we were trying to break off the target.
[00:10:16] There was no organization there were guys all over the high ground around us I remember real specifically one of the fire teams pointing up to a mountain that was just to our left saying hey do we have friendlies up there and someone else saying no we don't have anybody you know and looking at a battle not know we don't have anybody up there and then that fire team wiped out what was our sniper element so we had a whole fire team just wipe out.
[00:10:44] You know our four man sniper element trying to come down high ground one the down man of their own.
[00:10:50] And so we made it to the extract.
[00:10:54] Dragon all our bodies out of order everybody talking get back to the camp realize we're missing a piece of sensitive equipment.
[00:11:03] And then in the debrief we discovered that we'd had this heinous blue on blue and you know a fire team it pretty much wiped out another fire team and it.
[00:11:15] And we're just like oh man so.
[00:11:18] We pushed guys back out to the field to find a gear that we lost and thank goodness they found it before we had to stop training to find that gear.
[00:11:28] And then you know we did by no fault of my own we did a really healthy assessment of what you guys as the training attachment had put us through and instead of going whoa.
[00:11:43] You know blaming you guys are making excuses like okay let's make a list and we knocked out like four things that we messed up the worst four things that we messed up.
[00:11:53] And then how we were going to fix them like okay well this down man thing we don't have it right we better start carrying stretchers in the field.
[00:12:03] And then we're going to stick each fire team is going to have a pair of bags so when a guy gets killed we're taking all a sensitive stuff off of him so we can move him easy we put him in the pair bag so we don't lose it.
[00:12:14] Okay that's done all right.
[00:12:18] Guys we get everyone's got to stop talking on the radio at the same time we got to get some comms disciplines we ran some drills we ran drills on how we were going to get head counts.
[00:12:29] And you know then we then we did the drills on how are we going to identify each other in the dark as soon as their bullets without you know.
[00:12:44] And we went with no comms and and so we laid that out and like hey everybody here's where you know carry the the V S 17 panel.
[00:12:55] So everyone's going to have that in your left shoulder pocket the little three foot ones down so that's during daytime at nighttime we're going to use our strokes and what you know to there at the time.
[00:13:10] And even today I'll tell you what if I was going out today and I was worried about the enemy having night vision I would be more worried about and this is me personally and I don't want to argue this with anybody and you hit me up about my own guy shoot me.
[00:13:24] Because they can shoot and they have big guns then the enemy scene my stroke.
[00:13:30] Yeah. So that was something that paned out later so.
[00:13:35] We did that I thought we didn't in a real healthy way we we kind of we were really cutting corners with our rehearsals because we don't get great it on our rehearsals we get great it on our brief so all the effort goes into the brief.
[00:13:47] But the brief doesn't stick with you mentally until you go out and rehearse it and so we're like hey here's the way we're going to do our you know our head counts and and we we would do head counts by fire team.
[00:14:01] So we would say head count and then.
[00:14:04] Fire team six is up five's up four's up three's up two's up one's up like okay we go out rehearse it and we get to fire team three in the guy would be spacing it and we're like okay fine team three and okay and we get to the point where.
[00:14:18] That was just second nature and then to the point where everybody because we got decentralized command going on now when we're moving off target.
[00:14:27] Sit fire team six knows a head count is coming and they just kick it off and it just rolls through and there's there's no issues so we got that done we did our next next FTX we did considerably better.
[00:14:42] But you guys ramped up the pressure and then we had other issues and we're like okay hey when we get all mixed up we got to be able to reorganize without sounding like a high school cafeteria.
[00:14:55] So then I think the next thing we punched into was our re-ord parameters and the dark and we would go out and just mix everybody up and go boom someone passes the hand signal for perimeter and then we would go get it and get re-ord and.
[00:15:11] And then we would go up like that and and and what I really enjoyed about the training and I told people who came through it later was that it was was like it was super challenging and.
[00:15:26] And I was like going to a haunted house and like I enjoy going to haunted houses because I like to go through and something startles me and I'm not really happy that something like a guy popping out with a chainsaw whatever startles me.
[00:15:43] Let's do something new but it's completely new and unexpected and you guys continue to turn that dial up of completely new and unexpected.
[00:15:53] And that paned out to work out so well for us because we had a the right attitude about it and later on when I'm moving that position we talk about that later.
[00:16:02] I could see a healthy way to deal with that and the not healthy way to deal with it and healthy way is always own in it and taking responsibility and then it just it was so much fun.
[00:16:12] We would be done with the covering sweat everybody was yelling and.
[00:16:32] And we just got hammered there to and then it's paint ball and a bunch of other stuff but that was great one other thing like when you did your roles in responsibilities you didn't really define a position for the the true senior and what's the advisor.
[00:16:52] And then you're so like hey you're not really going to be the the assault leader anything else like that because honestly like he said yeah the things could run and also yeah the thing I used to say is is.
[00:17:06] The senior and the supervisor is the action arm for the task commander so there's going to be things that are going to be need to make be made happen and that's the guy that's going to make it happen so oh we got a building that's got a problem or we got a position that's need support or we got a wounded guy like in the army.
[00:17:24] And Marine Corps there so he is who runs a Casabac it's the senior and listed guy because that's the guy that goes oh he has the experience to make this happen under massively stressful situation so my word to the senior listed guys like you're the action arm this the task commander can't make things happen he's got to he's got to look at what else is going on he's got to figure what the next step is going to be he's talking getting information he's passing information all that stuff is going to he can't take time to go.
[00:17:49] I mean I'm clear and extra building or set up a security perimeter on this ridge like he can't do that that's the senior and listed guy that goes hey boss and obviously he's saying hey boss.
[00:18:00] If you want to get out of here here's what I'm going to make happen I'm going to go set a perimeter over here and put gunners up on that high ground and then you guys can peel through here and that's where we'll leave and the to you commander goes awesome yes execute.
[00:18:12] So that's that to me has always been the the best way to utilize the senior listed because if you put the senior listed actually in charge of something.
[00:18:20] Well, that's what they're doing they're doing that thing and then when something else goes sideways.
[00:18:24] Who's who's going to handle that now and it all seems to happen in a scene.
[00:18:28] Yeah, so it's kind of the most complicated thing to write the thing that's hard to handle is the thing that you didn't plan for and so if you don't have it's just like it's just like you don't want to commit your reserves right you don't want to commit your reserves.
[00:18:40] In in a situation where you don't have to when you don't want it you're as a to you commander.
[00:18:45] You have one guy as like the reserve the you have reserve brain power and your reserve brain powers your is your S.E.A. because if something goes wrong.
[00:18:54] You can't get on it, but you need the most experienced tactically savvy guy to go and handle whatever it is.
[00:19:01] Which you may not even know how to handle but you just know that you've got you know any me approaching on a road from the north you're getting intel you're getting fed information.
[00:19:08] Hey, there's enemy approaching on the road from the north.
[00:19:11] A senior get it taken care of and then senior goes I got it and goes and handles it and and that's basically how we executed it and what was it what's really interesting.
[00:19:21] Is that over coms and guys with the tank comms would be up and a lot of times comms go down.
[00:19:28] But over comms the word to be like hey we're leaving break down your security.
[00:19:33] And then you're waiting for a call and waiting for a call and waiting for a call and then you don't have to run over there and say it looking at someone actually say it and then they're like oh and and for some reason they're there they're here in it in their headset and it just it ain't happening and you just got to go guys get they get jammed up you know and that hourglass is just turning and turning and turning and you got to go.
[00:20:01] You know hit them to get things moving get that processor moving and going again and then sometimes just your presence there.
[00:20:09] And what we know talking about yelling you're not yelling at him but like hey boom get the 60 gunner down let's go we're moving this way.
[00:20:19] Hey get that wounded man over there the stretch ditch the structure we're done go and then hustle and everybody up and just trying to keep everything moving around and.
[00:20:30] I'll say this now everything that we faced in combat.
[00:20:35] Was easier than the stuff we faced in training because you put the screws on a so hard that we were like okay we've seen something pretty dang close to this before.
[00:20:50] So when when a guy stepped on on an ID and lost his legs that we didn't experience in training.
[00:20:59] But everybody dealt with it in a professional way and of course that was a horrible situation but that was not something that we were new to.
[00:21:08] We were like okay we've done it down men we we've had this situation you and had a couple of guys get pretty severely wounded.
[00:21:17] And it was it was a factor in their pain but it was no factor in how we fought and and how we dealt with the situation.
[00:21:26] There were there are a couple times that we came.
[00:21:29] We were literally too close to blue on blues but because we had you'd reinforced everything in training because we mitigated those blue on blues bloodlessly in training we didn't have him on the battlefield.
[00:21:55] Connected to the fact that I wanted you guys to be ready and just you know like the whole down down man thing like it's not easy to carry a down man especially not easy when the guy helps you and he kind of it's in training he kind of jumps up on your shoulder and push his hand in that right spot on your back to stabilize himself and all those little things that they do to help each other out it's not that easy it sucks and.
[00:22:23] The blue on blue thing and I remember I've got a task unit your task unit included would have a blue on blue and I'd bring him into the office and everyone in the chain of command would sign like a safety violation and.
[00:22:36] And and I would tell everyone I'd say listen I'm not doing this degrading you.
[00:22:42] Because the person in this room that's had a real blue on blue where people got killed is me and I don't want to want to happen to you so there's so much.
[00:22:53] Driving me just to try and make it as realistic as possible and then you know you get the kick ass team guys that are running all the training.
[00:23:04] And give those guys the direction they're just going to go and that's just you know so I mean I'd show up for the training sites and the guys would be so.
[00:23:13] Amped to make the training awesome and you know the amount of effort that the amount of effort that guys would put in to make the training realistic was crazy I mean some of those so out at land warfare some of the demolitions that would get set up.
[00:23:29] Three four days of they'd stay out on the training on the site for three or four days setting demo up everywhere so there's stuff blowing up and catching on fire and just smoke everywhere total total mayhem and.
[00:23:43] You know there's there's only this is the thing when you're training there's only so much.
[00:23:49] You can't do to simulate combat because what you can't do there's a line that you cannot cross you can't shoot people you can't do it you can't wound your men in training and so that line can never get crossed.
[00:24:05] You can do to get it as close to that line as possible and the laser system that we had in the explosives and then all just unleashing all that chaos and mayhem.
[00:24:20] And you know you mentioned it quickly like you're out of two towards it, but you're out of two towards it is what the winning task unit attitude always was because it's really easy to go to be always bullshit you had a bunch of good sit up on that hill.
[00:24:36] You don't think alchight is going to set people up on a hill you don't think the moushes going to set people in a spider hole in the middle of a compound you don't think by the way all that stuff we got it from actual after actions reports so the fact that you and your your task unit instead of looking at everyone else as to why you didn't do a good job.
[00:24:58] You looked at yourself and said okay what can we actually do better how about we actually try and improve something how we pick three four things we try to do those things better.
[00:25:06] And then you do those things better and you're right because and you know this from working and training you already know what's going to happen like you can see you you put a guy here you put a bad guy over here you put a bad guy over there you've got a terrain feature like this you know what's going to happen.
[00:25:20] And you watch an unfold and then you also know that if the leadership can make some good calls it's going to be no factor.
[00:25:28] If the if the platoons have good standard operating procedures it'll be no factor but if they're not and the leadership starts to fall apart I mean everything falls apart and that thing you just said about the fire to I used to tell the task you can't resist I used to say.
[00:25:41] Imagine you got you got your fire teams out there imagine if each one of your fire teams was doing something good that was moving you in the direction that you wanted them to move just imagine if that happened.
[00:25:55] And what happens when that occurs is the leader doesn't actually have to say barely anything other than we're getting out of here.
[00:26:04] And as soon as everyone we're heading south we're getting out of here going to our old rally point as soon as everyone knows that they just make it happen and do you come in or can do whatever he wants to do because the fire team leaders are going to make things happen themselves and and then and the opposite of that is there's no possible way you can control these people if you have to tell them everything that you want to do you can't say hey you can't talk to all those people at the same time you can't know what the vantage point the best vantage point for us to 60 gunners.
[00:26:33] This is 60 gunners going to be on that little note you can't do it that guy has to understand what it is that is wanted from him and why it's important for him to do it and then once you know is that he makes it happen.
[00:26:43] Yeah.
[00:26:44] And then I think it was my team commander that you're talking about when you said that you didn't you initially you weren't sure if quiet guys could lead because he wasn't he's not allowed got like I'm allowed got.
[00:26:59] He's he is personality is is different he's not super loud but.
[00:27:06] He was direct clear and concise and he did a fantastic I really enjoyed working with him.
[00:27:13] Yeah and he's a good example that I mean he's he's not the guy specifically I'm talking about but he's a guy that was.
[00:27:20] You know especially.
[00:27:21] Like the little things you were just barking out put a 60 over there get put that stretch your way we're leaving it get that wound him in those things if you're not loud.
[00:27:30] It's it they just don't get hurt.
[00:27:32] And so with your task commander I noticed that and was kind of like hey man you know you need to get louder.
[00:27:40] And and what he did was this you know get hey you know he's pretty loud my stupid S.E.A. standing over and all those those tattoos on his arm he might not be the smartest dude in the world but he's a hour.
[00:27:52] And when he tells you hey tell him to put that stretch or whatever then you or whoever in your in your task can start barking out the orders and it happens you know and so yeah he did a he did a great job of that.
[00:28:05] And he didn't have the same attitude as you because he he was experienced you know that was another cool thing you know you get I'd get guys that were coming through training more experience than me.
[00:28:15] And the good sea leaders would come through that training because all that was awesome man yeah yeah you just kicked our ass.
[00:28:21] Thank you we're going to try and do better what did you see like they would just want feedback just want suggestions.
[00:28:28] And then you get other guys coming through that it was everyone else's fault and the training wasn't really it's not realistic to get hit from three sides really what is that.
[00:28:39] What where do you see that in the Geneva convention that you're not allowed to ambush from three sides and that attitude never turned out well it just never a zero zero percent of turning out well of hey the training is unrealistic the training is this the training is that like no actually.
[00:28:56] Just do the SOPs step up and lead and everything works and that was the other amazing thing is you'd see the same problems.
[00:29:05] And once it once the task you got good you they you couldn't even stop because it's because it's 40 guys against four or five as you know the training that's training guys are it's like four or five guys out there shooting them up.
[00:29:18] Yeah so yeah I mean when you're running those scenarios you can't bring your guys back to life which you can remotely do fast enough to apply a decent amount of pressure to win that troop has just.
[00:29:35] Got not on step and then then everybody is so happy yeah you can't you you're right you can't reset people you can't reset the opt for quick enough.
[00:29:48] Because the because that's when you get a seal troop that's just in straight aggressive mergermode and going hard everything they see they're assaulting it's awesome it's a beautiful thing to see.
[00:29:59] So now with you you guys were you guys planning to go to Afghanistan knowing that work up I don't think you were were you were slated to go to Bosra and so we were going to be going down a southern Iraq.
[00:30:12] And working out of there and then the request for forces popped up that they were asking for a seal troop back in Afghanistan and I think.
[00:30:27] On the on the numbered seal teams had been out of Afghanistan since someone around 2005 so they there'd been no presence whatsoever for numbered seal teams in Afghanistan and a while this is a 2009.
[00:30:41] So initially there was a.
[00:30:45] It popped up and then then it was confirmed and then like over the the Christmas holiday they they said okay hey.
[00:30:53] We're going to send.
[00:30:55] The up my troop is going to be the troop to Afghanistan what that look like no one knew is it you're going to Afghanistan because.
[00:31:04] There's a deployment order that has to get signed to go anywhere that's got to be signed by the secretary of your defense right and ours.
[00:31:11] To deploy a troop to a sealed troop to Afghanistan was in the book it hadn't been signed yet.
[00:31:18] And so myself the task in a commander and one of the I Cs who deployed with you we did a pre deployment site survey and.
[00:31:28] I think it was like in February we went oh and usually on a pediatric pre deployment site survey or pre PDS as you go over you see what's going on then you come back.
[00:31:38] We went over there and I stayed me and a CB chief came with me who was.
[00:31:46] Who was going to set up our burden and stuff with one of our support or or all four of us went and then he and I never came back from that pre deployment site survey we just stayed there so.
[00:31:59] Yeah so going into you know in an awkward situation where we're we're going over there they.
[00:32:05] We're working for the army on SF and they don't even know what they're going to do with us a lot of them didn't want us because they had bad experiences unfortunately was seals before.
[00:32:15] And so what I did what I kind of tore a page out of your book I didn't know this is what you guys did but this is what I did is I usually wear my hair like this.
[00:32:24] I went ahead and got high and tight to shift over to look a little bit more.
[00:32:31] Like the army does because it's just it's just another way to establish rapport and I don't care about my hair I just don't.
[00:32:40] And so so when we got there the first place we went was to the the siege of sotif which is the the O6 that's running everything there and I went into the sergeant major's office.
[00:32:54] Was a senior listener advisor I went into the office and stood in a tent and introduced myself and stood at parade rest and he looked up from his desk and stared at me.
[00:33:03] And I'm in you know I got a clean uniform on I got a high in tight and he goes I have never seen a seal like you before.
[00:33:12] And I kept it real professional with him and then he's like hey we don't know where we're going to put you we don't know what we're going to do with you guys we're working through that.
[00:33:26] And you guys have got to go ahead and brief the kernel at the time so we worked up a brief for the kernel and my task in a commander went in and had a meeting with him and he was he's a pretty fired up type of guy.
[00:33:44] And so I was going to say to the team commander like hey what do you need what do you need from me and the boss told him hey I we need the sect have to sign sign our line item to get us to deploy here.
[00:33:59] And a week later that happened and he so in and it's in order where the set to have supposed to sign stuff and ours was like ninth back and he went straight to our line item and signed it so.
[00:34:13] So that current we made a good impression on him he had some pull obviously and made an impression.
[00:34:20] Moving forward so then we were looking at well okay where are we going to go we still didn't know where we were going to go.
[00:34:27] And and we talked to the the we had a briefing with the general and he explained hey I don't have enough partner forces.
[00:34:36] For all of my you know OD SF OD eight teams that are here because normally we're working by with and through and he goes so you guys.
[00:34:47] Are going to go on whatever con op is hot and plus up my ODAs you are going to a try the Taliban and deny them freedom of movement.
[00:35:00] I thought hallelujah. Yeah doesn't get me better than that it it doesn't and then we moved down to camp brown.
[00:35:10] And third group was running the special operations task force west down there and we got there and I met with a senior and listed visor there and he's like hey we really don't we don't know where we're going to put you guys we don't have any space for you here.
[00:35:27] And we just stayed good you know and and we established a relationship with him and this the the commander there on the exo and the ops guys and then two days later the the sergeant major takes me out and he's like hey see this big tent this this is that this big tent right inside the gate he goes this is where we were doing all our vehicle maintenance.
[00:35:52] And he goes we're getting right in move those guys over to another yard you guys can have this.
[00:35:58] And so so that was awesome we were basically like initially where we were the unwanted.
[00:36:07] You know in law showing up for Christmas like Randy Quaid and Christmas story and then now we were like hey old college buddies that had come into town and third group was just so good to us.
[00:36:21] And so there was absolutely no prokillism whatsoever and that was just a great experience working with him across the board.
[00:36:30] So how did you when did you start putting together how did you say okay this is what we're going to do how that come about.
[00:36:36] They just they just told us there's like here's what here's here's we laid out here's our capabilities and there's like well here's how we'd like to use you and we said Roger that where can we help we never came in and said.
[00:36:47] Hey this is you know this is what we do and we come in and do this x y and z because they're targeting and their whole their whole philosophy was completely different.
[00:36:56] Then what they did in a rock in a rack we were very personality based and and SW as a whole we were we're reduced to personality based hot targeting.
[00:37:04] They're more about disruption they be like hey to all bands over here in freedom movement we're going to go do stuff over there and then they're going to have to come fight us and then it's going to slow them down.
[00:37:14] You know everywhere they're going or hey.
[00:37:17] Um.
[00:37:18] They're funding this war with opium so are we going to burn down opium fields and punish the farmer or do we wait to the Taliban collects the opium up into one spot.
[00:37:28] And then go destroy it and that's the kind of stuff that that we would do we would go to the opium cash a's after the poor farmer who doesn't have a choice about what he's growing.
[00:37:39] As harvested they moved it to one spot and then we pop in destroy all their opium stay there for for a couple days and fight them and then leave.
[00:37:49] So so that was good but our attitude was like how can we help where can we help you and they're they just gave us work and it was great.
[00:37:59] And you guys had some pretty crazy ops.
[00:38:03] Yeah, I would say like so so the first stop we had to add on crew that was there and we went out with.
[00:38:13] Three one one six and their commandos and they had an op where they they went in and and took a.
[00:38:20] A bizarre which is like a strip mall basically where they're facility a bunch of opium went in held that destroyed all the opium for a day and then fought everybody that came out us.
[00:38:31] So we went out on that operation with them and it was good it was a lot of fun.
[00:38:39] And then that got them used to us and and what we brought to the table and that was an op that was setting up in a concept of operations called sea genge and and that was like I think the first frog order under it and they would do a concept operation like hey here's what we want to do with this stuff and this this sea genge was basically hammering the opium in the helmet river valley and it culminated with the last frog or was when we went into helmet.
[00:39:07] And we went to helmet into Marja which is like at the heart of the Taliban it was a Taliban controlled town.
[00:39:17] Coalition forces had never been inside of it in a year later it was 2010 or 11 the Marines went in there and cleared it and it was a huge fire huge firefight.
[00:39:28] And then it was when I say we it was us the Afghan commandos the NSF ODA and the OAB above them.
[00:39:38] I think that's OAB right yep so that detachment above them and we just plus them up and there there OAB commander was equal rank to our task in a commander rank but like.
[00:39:52] My boss was just like he didn't push back he was like hey what do you need me to do and that OAB commander really appreciated that relationship that he didn't have to you know bump had.
[00:40:04] He go battle over big well I want to be in this position exactly or I want to make this call so.
[00:40:12] Coalition forces had never been inside of Marja they tried to go close to us and just gotten shot out we choppered into.
[00:40:21] And we were going to do a a bizarre which was we took for the corner for blocks and a pretty huge area where there was a ridiculous amount of opium consolidated they were refining opium into heroin.
[00:40:39] And making IED improvised explosive device all kind of stuff there in the middle of their town we went in there at night we stayed there for four days and just just got after it wholesale.
[00:40:57] There was eight thousand pounds of opium that we destroyed no it was a big operation there's the the the D.A. was involved there F.B.I. agents there was a huge was a huge crew and it and it was good to go.
[00:41:15] Lessons lessons learned from theirs that's okay so like the first day we're I was in one of the blocking positions there and we were taking fire basically from the east into the south because the way the different positions it was kind of like a cross the way it crossed out.
[00:41:35] When we were taking fire from the south you had to be aware that like hey I can't see him but my bullets can see him in that way there's a bunch of guys and so we took fire from a tree line.
[00:41:47] That was probably 50 yards from the compound that we were holding and that was up on a roof top with another guy and I saw like four guys walking around in counties and we were getting ready to light him up but they were learning that the stuff the command was were like hey we got guys moving down here we need a headcount who's got the Afghani commandos because these guys look just like them.
[00:42:10] And then they came back with oh hey we got everybody no one's outside of our position and so we're getting ready I'm like don't shoot don't shoot and then we called again they confirmed again no one's outside our position.
[00:42:26] Finally 20 minutes later they're like oh wait we had some guys walk out to go I don't know what they're doing if they're going to the bathroom or what they were screwing around doing but we could have just completely lit them up.
[00:42:41] We used a lot of 50 cow on that we had the air support the this we had everything from.
[00:43:00] And then we went along all the theirs cops are this much you know all the opium there's a somewhere like 800 pounds of refined heroin and heroin was like packaged in these.
[00:43:12] And then we had a scorpion on it and it said like 2008 after you know it had like a label marketing brand marketing like you know made made here in Afghanistan or whatever and so.
[00:43:27] Huge a front to them that we were there so after like the first two days we basically killed off every local fighter and then.
[00:43:42] Local fighters knew every piece of dead space but the guys from Pakistan weren't really familiar with areas so they would be bumbley in the open looking the other action like oh haha bum bum get them.
[00:43:57] And then we got up and there's no fighting like we're going to cause it keeps us like you get to set in your watch by like okay sons up and we should start getting some shooting by now and there's nothing.
[00:44:12] And so we radioed up to the to the headquarters are like hey what what is going on did they quit and they're just laughing hysterically on the radio and they were able to tell this and I can't describe to you how but.
[00:44:27] The guy who had the keys to the armory where they were storing all their weapons they couldn't find him probably because we bombed him over the night and they couldn't get into the armory to get their stuff to come us attack us.
[00:44:44] And then we were like yeah but it was just an audacious operation that worked out great and then you guys taking a casualty's turn that we had ordered the afghan or did the army.
[00:45:02] So we had a rocket hit the compound over next to mine and our dog handler and one of our corpsman got fragged with the corpsman the frag knocked a tooth out and then launched stuck in his tongue so he's real luck it is tooth slow down the momentum and then the dog handler got hit in the back.
[00:45:22] So we had several of the army guys that got straight up shot and then here's the awesome part like the.
[00:45:32] I feel like their call sign was paid row but it was air force met a back and as soon as they heard that we were troops in contact they lifted up and they would just be loitering real close to the firefight.
[00:45:46] Like as soon as that that Mr. Port came over and like hey we got a guy down they came in and it would be.
[00:45:54] Like I would be watching going or we're going to get that helicopter shot down and they would just come in.
[00:45:59] They had a many the door gun and had a many gun and they would just land right like on top of the guy in the middle of the firefight we don't care and like I was just.
[00:46:12] I was so proud I'm going to just be crying because it's such an awesome thing to see because it's complete disregard for their own personal safety and they're just waiting to jump in there and get guys so luckily.
[00:46:27] On that operation a known was lost and then everybody was the guys that were shot will all recover from their wounds and what kind of damage what kind of damage you guys do to the enemy.
[00:46:38] I think it was it was pretty significant I mean there is just a huge amount of drugs and and their equipment and things that we destroyed and then.
[00:46:50] It just had to hurt them psychologically that they thought that that was they complete freedom of movement and then all of a sudden we came in and stayed there and just did the meat stomp on them for four days.
[00:47:00] And you guys weren't only doing urban situations you guys were going into other scenarios where you're like digging in on hillside and whatnot to right.
[00:47:10] Right so later on we you know we that that that that same take the high ground or it will take you because all of our operations and then we only did.
[00:47:20] We did to 23 total operations on that thing most of them were multi day and so they were only two that we were in and out in the same cycle of darkness.
[00:47:32] And typically you know we would do terrain studies and we're like hey we got to defend these positions and so when we had a compound that we're like here's the compound this is the compound that we're going to take and hold.
[00:47:45] And where's the high ground around it and then we need to get elements up on that high ground as well there were also there was there were two like.
[00:47:57] Times sensitive targets where we came in is a quick reaction force where other elements where there's another.
[00:48:15] And then we came in on the high ground.
[00:48:29] And then we came in assaulted them we were on the high ground behind them and laid the hammer down and then we're able to get stuff to those guys were able to get out that day.
[00:48:45] And then we were able to get out of the high ground and then we were able to get out of the high ground.
[00:49:13] And then someone's like hey we can put well let's go put pop flares out there you know and so it and it you know that's like going back to to Vietnam stuff but.
[00:49:25] And then guys went out and placed those and then boom you know we went once the bullet started flying and we were the troops and contact the tick as we say in the vernacular started to really get up to speed and then all the sun you're like.
[00:49:41] And then there's pop flares are going off okay start pumping 40 mic mic over there whatever and yeah it was it was cool there's one of the stories we have back back in Marja the guys brought to the ALGL which is like this 40 millimeter.
[00:50:01] And then it has this the new one has like a computer mount that goes on the top.
[00:50:11] And so you look at the screen and then you you put the little cursor on on what what your target is okay and then it lays is it.
[00:50:21] And then gives you an elevation correction based on the ballistics through the 40 millimeter and then you raise it up you depress the lever and then just.
[00:50:32] So there was there was guys in it in a tree line that were shooting at our guys and they had set this thing up and basically it's a 40 millimeter sniper rifle.
[00:50:45] They had the like a predator was overhead watching given them feedback on the fire so they shoot at these guys in this tree line.
[00:50:56] And then they ask the predator for a battle data damage assessment and the predator comes back with two EKA which enemy killed an action one ran away on fire.
[00:51:11] And then they say, oh that's good.
[00:51:16] And what about I know you told me a story one time about you guys weren't in the high ground here somebody that there's somebody like a cross about that had a little elevation on you and you guys were digging in and digging in and digging in sandbags and bags and bags much too good.
[00:51:31] Yeah, so there was one in the operations we were in.
[00:51:41] So while he caught and that this was one of the places that was bad enough where they actually came at us at night.
[00:51:43] So we did our insert helo's dropped us off and we were we're our perimeter yet ready to start our offset patrol into hit these compounds we get when PKM and two RPGs just come zip in overhead.
[00:51:56] And luckily we had whenever we got inserted we always had a patchies that escorted us in they went over and started hammering these guys.
[00:52:06] They weren't getting they I want to kid him killing like 30 people.
[00:52:10] And what had happened was it as it turned out we were offset from a target but where our offset was put us right next to where some other a bunch of other Taliban guys happened to be and they thought we were coming to get them so they maneuvered.
[00:52:24] Then when we we did our offset patrol got to our target.
[00:52:28] Guys came at us in the dark.
[00:52:30] Uh we could see him coming from the high ground.
[00:52:34] We laid a fire team pushed out.
[00:52:36] Shot them right when they came around the corner completely no factor.
[00:52:41] And then you know just 30 what when they got within they came around a corner 30 yards away from two AW gunners who just caught him down.
[00:52:49] And then one of those guys I think later we figured out was probably some big week with the Taliban.
[00:52:54] So we took that compound and we took the high ground immediately behind it but it was in a mountain range.
[00:53:01] So there was there was always going to be high ground around our high ground.
[00:53:05] The next day once they figured out where we were at and then they got on all the high ground around us and then they just brought it.
[00:53:15] And I can remember so the where we were at on that high ground it was like the ground was too hard to dig.
[00:53:22] We always brought 10 empty sandbags per guy so that you could fill them up and make defensive positions.
[00:53:28] We couldn't fill sandbags up because it was like trying to dig in your parking lot.
[00:53:32] So we just stacked all the rocks we could stack around us.
[00:53:36] And then they kicked this thing off with a barrage of RPGs and then just a steady stream of PKM.
[00:53:44] Fire, which is you know they're belt fed machine gun and I remember being laying flat on my chest.
[00:53:52] And there's like eight inches above my head are the right and by the way I'm not I took my body armor off because I was oh it's hot.
[00:54:00] I'm going to take my body armor off and my helmet and I'm like oh go my helmet back on and I snaked into my body armor.
[00:54:07] Everybody did and then these the bullets are hitting the rocks steadily.
[00:54:13] And the idea inches above my head come and the gunner is he's he's 1100 yards away.
[00:54:20] And he's just basically you know almost robbing him.
[00:54:23] Lobbing him in because I I'd been shooting it we'd been shooting at the guy a little bit and I just couldn't keep slide mine a rock and it was too windy to get him.
[00:54:32] And we had I think we had a reaper overhead.
[00:54:37] But in the middle of the day and a Afghanistan when the rocks are 90 degrees and a person's 90 degrees.
[00:54:44] It's worthless they can't see people and the Afghanis are not sitting out in the open worry and killing.
[00:54:49] So I was like.
[00:54:51] And at the moment I wasn't scared but I'm like okay I'm getting ready to get shot and I'm getting ready to die by the sword this is what I get.
[00:55:01] And that and that was it and then our sat calm radio antenna got shot and got knocked over and so now we had no comms to get air support because we desperately needed to get some more air in.
[00:55:16] And then my boss like I don't know how he got shot he didn't get shot but the two commanders like all right and he just got up there and fixed the antenna and.
[00:55:28] And it well down in the compound our guys just started lobbying mortars and we used we had they.
[00:55:37] They started using the delayed fuses so they were detonating 25 meters above the ground which which lays down an impressive frag pattern and tamp things down a bit.
[00:55:51] And we just got hammered and hammered and we're like oh this is not going to be good.
[00:56:00] Like 15 minutes later they're like hey we got some air to you and it's not it's not like we weren't without air cover because we did have a reaper and I think a predator showed up to but they're just limited.
[00:56:12] So two French jets showed up and a lot of the coalition forces will be difficult with you sometimes when you're calling for air support.
[00:56:20] And I'm not sure that these guys would have argued with us but we just said hey there were two main ridge lines that we were taken heavy fire from and we said do you know we.
[00:56:32] You know we give us a show force flight is where you feel fly real low over those ridge lines and see if it pushes their heads down and they came in right over both ridge lines and that tapped it down because they got down and then.
[00:56:50] A little while later that that slowed things down and it was more manageable now force we get our heads up and start to shoot back a little bit then the B1 bomber shows up and they've got bombs to waste you know and they gave us.
[00:57:05] 4 500 pound bombs on each ridge line air bursts at 100 yard increments boom boom boom boom boom you know and then that hammered them a bit.
[00:57:19] And then we were able to isolate some of the other guys use our organic weapons to hammer the other guys and then we were like, shoo man this place is bad the next day so we were supposed to extract that night and we were like hey ones are extra oh and at two in the afternoon on the high ground position we ran out of water and it was 114 degrees.
[00:57:44] So there's no shade there's no water it's just a massive suck fast and that nothing's coming till it gets dark so just waited the helos came in after dark kicked out pallets of water and ammo to resupply us and they're like by the way you're staying for another 24 hours.
[00:58:03] Because what we didn't know is that us being there was having a huge effect on the whole battle space and some other elements were able to adjust their position and some of the Afghan surrogate forces were able to get a whole bunch of stuff done but.
[00:58:21] Oh we got that over the radio I was like oh we're gonna stay here like don't they know that we almost got hammered like this is the first time.
[00:58:32] Up until then we always had the upper hand they weren't really worried about getting like just getting over run and in this point there was a real fear any second now we're going to get over run.
[00:58:45] I'm like you're staying for another day and I remember talking to my two platoon chiefs I'm like hey we're staying here for another day and you're going to push out and clear this stuff and we're going to reinforce this position and here's what we're going to do.
[00:59:00] They took a deep breath and they're like okay Roger that and we stayed another day and the next day we we got into it they threw it it came out as pretty hard again but then we we had a little bit more air support.
[00:59:16] We've developed a relationship with the 80 second airborne combat air brigade their Apache helicopters which are like tanks in the air.
[00:59:30] We would have barbecues with them and we would have we would run a range and have them over and then they would come to the range and we'd stand around and bullshit they broke their sleep cycle so this is really important for pilots they have got to have a X amount of rest before they can fly and they do not break their sleep cycle lightly they broke their sleep cycle to come support us.
[00:59:51] And then they put themselves at risk where like the Afghani don't like helicopters so when a helicopter shows up they'll sink.
[01:00:00] They flew low on purpose because they'll go oh that helicopters low I think I can hit it and then they they can't resist they come out and then they'd have these guys would just hammer them and they came in the next night and that.
[01:00:16] That was awesome.
[01:00:18] Yeah so I was still at trade-out while all this was going on and I remember I would get emails from you from from your task you to commander as well and we were just be talking about you know.
[01:00:31] But hey this is what's going on and I remember I was signing the emails back to you guys as the spiritual advisor. I was there in spirit dude.
[01:00:47] There's a lot of massaging and stuff that has to get done you know we got like I was looking at a picture in the hallway the other day and it's that classic picture with the yellow smoke and Mike he's there and Seth's right behind him and I never really studied everyone's gear but I looked at Seth and Seth's got the enhanced battle rifle which is the M14 that just in you know the situation it wasn't didn't work.
[01:01:16] And we got the laser's on our site so they these guys up at warcom fixed it up so you could use it and have seven six two on the battlefield and you guys all had that and we got there right away and they were just getting ready to field the scar heavy.
[01:01:32] We got them to field it first overseas which is not what they like to feel that first everyone trains with it. We got them to feel that overseas that was awesome because all of our guys had you know 173 grains of democracy and justice flying out there so when you when we would take when we take an app when we take a compound right take.
[01:01:58] Clear and clear compound hold a compound the Afghanis would they were used to five five six so they would know like okay it's pretty windy today and I'm out at five our yards it's not likely you're going to hit me with your 500 your five five six rounds so they would be like kind of out in the open and we would just kill them.
[01:02:19] Then then then that that circle would go out and our guys were regularly getting guys at five six seven eight hundred yards.
[01:02:32] And was it just that the scar heavy with it. So here's what they did most of our snipers took the the night force three by five to 15 scope that was on our.
[01:02:42] That's our 25s which that that gun had some issues and and with jam a lot and then just put them on their scars and that's what they patrolled with so they would have it all the way down on three and a half power so if you're patrolling you can just swing it up it's got a low magnification so you have both eyes open you can shoot and then they can put the by pods out and hit stuff far out and.
[01:03:05] And those things were were in freaking valuable and and it just brought a whole new dynamic to the battlefield and you know that the scar had some problems there's it's not a direct impingement thing where the gas doesn't go all the way back as a gas piston like the I'm 14 did.
[01:03:25] They told us don't loop those and guys that's the loop and then a jam up like a house gun sucks I'm like well I hope you looped your gas piston yeah put a lot of loop on it don't do that.
[01:03:36] Don't do that so.
[01:03:38] So that work great and that was that was awesome that we were able to get get that over there and the the common or at the time basically gave us whatever we wanted to ask for this is support we got from group one was incredible.
[01:03:53] Now.
[01:03:55] You guys you guys didn't really take that many can be no one got killed right no I got killed.
[01:04:02] How many guys got wounded.
[01:04:06] Two guys got wounded with frag.
[01:04:09] You know we had a couple concussion injuries where guys got knocked out and it's hard to quantify how serious that is.
[01:04:17] And then on on our turnover operation when seal team one came to relieve us is when when when Dan can Austin got hit by that at IED and lost both his legs and that I mean.
[01:04:34] So we're doing horrible event and and thank goodness we're just like there's so many things that lined up to save Dan's life because we've been inserted for an offset patrol went in there.
[01:04:52] So we're going to have to secure the the bizarre and then we push guys up to high ground like we always do except for the Taliban suspected you know well they'll if they come to take it they mind the entire high ground so as that element was pushing up.
[01:05:10] There was an explosion and then there's quiet and then to you commander gets on the radio hey was that a controlled that and.
[01:05:19] Um.
[01:05:22] Oh I see who deployed with you came back and he's like it was not a controlled that and we've got some wounded were like okay work through it get on the sack calm the.
[01:05:36] 47's that it had dropped us off it was an SOP for them to have a flight surgeon on one of their birds. And so they hadn't made it all the way to back base or it may have been that they lawyer to round for a little bit that could have been to so.
[01:05:53] They were right there and there was surgical stuff right there when because Dan's wounds were absolutely horrible. And then once the EOD guy started when it's that happened and it was lucky because the charge went low order so if it gone high order would have killed like six guys.
[01:06:16] And then they were going to have a lot of time to get out of the way and then they're in a minefield basically his metal detectors getting over run so he's got a bay and that or a big screwdriver and he's probing the way out.
[01:06:28] In front of the guys so they could get Dan out and onto the metavac that later got him back.
[01:06:37] How long has you been on the ground for like a matter of 10 15 minutes.
[01:06:41] We did like we did an offset so we patrolled in for like three or four clicks so it was a little bit of hours.
[01:06:50] It wasn't a couple hours but it was inside of an hour. That's why I'm not sure how long was 47's were lawyer or if they were on their way back and they were able to turn them around but they were back quick and they had that surgeon on there which I think really made the difference for.
[01:07:08] For Dan who you know now he's guys running marathons. I haven't run the marathon lat yet. I feel like such a loser.
[01:07:16] And he's competed in the Olympics a couple times right now because he got a golden apparel Olympics right there you go.
[01:07:22] Yeah, yeah, he's awesome awesome guy. Yeah, that was that was devastating devastating. I remember.
[01:07:33] We got word back that you know one of the guys and we just assumed there's one of your guys actually because I don't think we even knew the turnover that you know the turnover was taking place.
[01:07:43] I assumed it was one of your guys. But you know and then then I heard it was Dan and I remember the first phone call that I got and I was like, is he gonna live.
[01:07:56] Oh yeah. And at this point they were like, yes, he is because I mean I know it was like touching go.
[01:08:06] But then the first person that I don't remember it was was like yes, he stable he's gonna live and I was like, then we're good to go.
[01:08:15] And I just remember thinking thank God he's you know he's gonna make it, you know.
[01:08:19] The like on like the second or third off we were there. Our guys were making doing it up with it.
[01:08:27] One we always had afghani commandos with us because they were the partner for us the ODAs we were doing.
[01:08:33] And one of them stepped on a mine and it blew both his legs off and part of his arm and one of our guys got cut in the face with his femur and then there were some issues where when they were putting that.
[01:08:48] All of our turnicats were failing because they had a plastic win list that was was going and so the the one guy.
[01:08:59] He that got hit and they got cut in the face with femur and it messed him up mentally for a little bit and I didn't know what to say to him.
[01:09:07] So I didn't say anything to him and I you know what I wish I had because I've come to a conclusion now with a lot of this pain that everybody carries around that it's it's a poison you carry inside of you and if you talk about it it lets it out.
[01:09:24] And then it's kind of detoxing you a little bit and so like I don't know you know if you're listening to this in your situation someone's going something horrible and you don't know what to say.
[01:09:37] Say something just sit down there and and just talk with them about it you know ask how they're doing see if they can get it off their chest because it helps.
[01:09:44] Yeah I the same thing we had guys they got like I had one guy that got shot in the chest plate and got shot through the.
[01:09:53] On this back. Those are two different operations too I mean like so what is that due to you when you're thinking how close was I to just getting killed twice you know in two different scenarios and for sure I think.
[01:10:07] You know if you don't and you what is you know what what do we do in the teams like make a joke about everything everything's a big joke which probably helps in some cases.
[01:10:17] Let let you definitely got a if you get the opportunity to talk to people about what's going on and what I think it does is even more than like well I'm sure I don't know because I'm not a psychologist but.
[01:10:30] Okay there's the idea that you're like letting this stuff out right I'm going to let this about there's also the idea that when you talk about something you you articulate.
[01:10:41] What you're thinking and you have to like put it in the words that somehow they become a thing that you can manage.
[01:10:48] Yes I make a.
[01:10:50] So like when you don't talk about it it's just like you have a conversation with somebody about whatever you you want to debate with somebody about some subject.
[01:10:58] If you never debated about it before you're going to be at a disadvantage because you don't really understand all the ins and out but when you actually talk to someone about it then you say oh here's here's a point that I can make here and here's our point that can make there.
[01:11:09] If you don't talk about this stuff it's just sitting in there and it doesn't get any better you don't understand it any better when you talk when you just like we were talking on the last podcast how when you teach something you understand it more because you have to detach from it to look at it from the outside.
[01:11:25] Well if I explain something to you.
[01:11:27] I'm explaining it to myself too you know I'm explaining it to myself too and I told you this yesterday you know when when I had Tom five on the podcast who was in.
[01:11:38] World War to Korea and Vietnam and got a purple heart and all those and it and I asked him I asked him some question about losing guys when he was a battalion commander and Vietnam.
[01:11:49] 60 years ago I didn't say that part of them like you know what was.
[01:11:54] You know what was how did you guys handle cash please or something like that and I don't know what the question was but here he is this.
[01:12:00] You know army colonel retired army colonel and he's talking about the guys that he lost 60 years ago and he got choked up and I remember looking at him thinking of myself okay.
[01:12:11] This is the way I'm always going to feel about the guys that I lost it's never going to go away.
[01:12:16] And like just hearing him talk about it and seeing that reaction I was like okay.
[01:12:20] And that's what I tell all my all my brothers now I'm like hey you're always going to feel that way like it's it's just here's a guy that was in World War two Korean Vietnam.
[01:12:28] He got a purple heart in all those and he gets choked up talking about the guys that he lost in Vietnam and Korean World War two but you know I specifically asked him about Vietnam.
[01:12:38] So when you talk about these things I think you get some kind of handle on them because you have to articulate them in such a way that you can then.
[01:12:45] It's like what you have to name your enemy right you have to name your enemy they say if you don't name the enemy then you how you can fight them what's the same thing when you actually say hey you know.
[01:12:55] I really feel bad about this or whatever or I think I could have done this better or I think I made a mistake or I wish we would or whatever it is that you're thinking you know whatever survivors guilt whatever that thing is that you have when you say it you're you're you get to look at it you get to look at it from the outside and go okay.
[01:13:14] Yeah, I'm explaining this to Jason and I'm telling him what I'm thinking and then while I'm explaining it to you I'm explaining it to myself is what's happening and that's why I think talking about it not only is it get it out but it gets you handle on it somewhat.
[01:13:30] The process of it coming out of your mouth and then back into your ears or maybe you've let in different parts of your brain adjust and deal with it but.
[01:13:44] Yeah, check what else so you come home.
[01:13:48] So like and here's another thing I want to talk about to and and you brought this up in this the book you are covering the last couple podcasts about fear like.
[01:14:01] Once that first bullet goes by or it's just like. Everything shuts down and you just go to what you're supposed to do and then you do it it's like in the moment all the motion goes away.
[01:14:15] There's no fear but then afterwards and before is when you have to fear like I would's laying my bed there and I would completely was would picture.
[01:14:28] Notification going on for my wife like I could see the guys and blues driving out to my house or you know.
[01:14:38] Okay, this is this good chance that I'm going to get severely maimed and I could picture myself sitting in a wheelchair outside of you know the the patrick that I have my horses in and I can't even ride him anymore.
[01:14:54] And I'm getting emotional about that. It's kind of it's it's odd to me but that that's weird how how it you know when you're in the moment you're not afraid later on when you're thinking about it is is when you start to freak out about it a little bit.
[01:15:11] I'm just no doubt and this has been confirmed over and over and over again that the waiting is the worst I that's just just you're just anticipating and then once you're going you're going and you got stuff to do and I was never in situations where I like didn't have anything to do.
[01:15:31] I was like well the few times I've been murdered where I'm like sitting there waiting for a mortar to either hit me or not hit me that sucked a lot but.
[01:15:43] Yeah, it wasn't like an hour though. Yeah, it's like phone phone. Okay, we got about 30 seconds. I don't know. Maybe a minute before we find out where it's going to be at but I also think that.
[01:16:02] You know, if you're scared of dying, it's going to be real nightmare all the time. I think.
[01:16:09] Yeah, and like I said that one point in swell like I or I'm like okay I'm going to get this is what I get it was just was there was not fear it was just an acceptance.
[01:16:21] I'm going to get shot here pretty soon. I wonder how bad it's going to hurt or burn or whatever it is and it's like that's going to happen. Okay.
[01:16:30] Now later on, you think about it. There's one other thing I think on an earlier podcast people were asking a question about if you had a routine because I had a really definite routine that I went through prior to going out in Afghanistan and it wasn't like anything religious but I sit there I'd be in my room and you know we'd have everything but like well we had everything in our room.
[01:16:59] But we had a ready room and all that. So Iris had sent me the CD from this country singer Corblond. I put that on and then the first thing I'd go through is I changed out every battery in all of my gear because you got like.
[01:17:11] Your belt or head sets, you're not all that stuff's getting new batteries. Then I would go through and look at all my battle maps clean out the ones from the last one get my new battle maps for this one study them.
[01:17:26] Then I always always always carry 24 hours worth of water with me and then pack out my food. Then I would go get fresh batteries from my radios.
[01:17:39] Then I would go through all of my gear, strip it down, put it back together for anything that I any special gear and equipment I needed for that up.
[01:17:49] There was a later on I liked to carry a 60 power spotting scope because I spent a lot of time on a high ground. Make sure that was all clean up.
[01:17:58] Make sure that my radios charge was crypto. All that stuff it would take me like two hours to go through that whole process and then we would go outside we would do our comms checks together and go out and get on the helicopters and get after it.
[01:18:15] That routine right there is so good because if you had all that stuff ready and you just sat there for two hours, that would not be fun.
[01:18:24] No.
[01:18:26] You got to check everything three or four times.
[01:18:30] I remember riding with a guy on a ride and his battery died on his nods in the middle of the you know when he's driving on a combo I'm like good grief.
[01:18:40] He didn't put a fresh one in the cost like 90 cents dude my my first deployment to Iraq. We were doing that and we stopped.
[01:18:48] We stopped changing batteries for every op like after a week because the ops were like an hour long.
[01:18:55] And all of a sudden we realized we were going to run out of batteries like we just didn't have enough batteries so we just went to like hey carry an extra battery and if you know it fed dies then whatever change it.
[01:19:07] That's all night. Yeah you guys going all night isolated you know we were 10 feet from our homies or whatever 20 yards from our homies have big stack of batteries and they're didn't matter it's totally different scenario.
[01:19:17] Yeah, I think that I would always be super busy with doing stupid you know officer stuff.
[01:19:25] Getting this brief checking with this guy whatever doing all that stuff and I would just get already and it seems like I would work up until I got into a debate.
[01:19:36] And that's why to you commander to two and it was hard on him because he would go on the op already on a rest deficit.
[01:19:44] And then when you're going to stay out there for two days eventually you know he's got to go down but they we figured out like he would pass it off to one of the other OICs to be the GFC because he didn't want me to be the guy talking to the J-tack about what to drop.
[01:20:02] I was well I would be pretty liberal.
[01:20:05] There's a picture of me and Dave Burke.
[01:20:11] Good to be a good deal Dave and it's it's in downtown Ramadi I think it's on the roof of Cop Falcon and we're both just completely asleep sitting there just it's asleep.
[01:20:21] Yeah, because and the same thing because when I'd go out a lot of times I didn't awake and you know late all of us would be awake for a long time so you get in the field and you're like cool I can sleep now.
[01:20:31] And that was like okay so that was like one of the hardest things is a leader is like you get there you get in the op and everybody wants to stay awake and that means we're all going to hit the wall.
[01:20:43] In like six hours so it's you got to like go and say hey you four guys get in there and I need you to take sleep so you're ready to bump out on the security positions or the fighting positions or whatever it is.
[01:20:57] Because it's common yeah everyone's just going to hit the wall at the same time and you're all asleep so tired.
[01:21:05] All right so that's a was that the last op you did was with them was that the very last op we did you do a couple more.
[01:21:13] I don't remember it was pretty close to the last op because one of our platoon's had already redeployed at that point.
[01:21:21] You know in leadership you're the first one there and the last one to go so we didn't go until the last bird but I think.
[01:21:29] I think that was our if it was it wasn't when our last one it was our second to last one.
[01:21:35] It was going was coming home from this deployment any different than coming home from your other deployments.
[01:21:41] Yeah I've been there for eight months and it was the most kinetic deployment of of my career so.
[01:21:53] Yeah they and and as W started doing the third location decompression stop where they're like hey before you get home we want you to sit down and blow off some steam.
[01:22:05] I think that's it down with the you know site can talk to the cycle a little bit and our our redeployment flight kept getting bumped so we redeployed like.
[01:22:17] I think.
[01:22:19] Eight days later than we were supposed to and every day it was like hey the birds going to go to moro get up.
[01:22:25] I think that's it's like nope maybe tomorrow and we did that for eight days in a row finally got on it and it was getting so long I was really angry.
[01:22:37] It's a lot of us go home and they held their ground and I'm really glad that they you know held their ground because when we got to the other location and you start drinking I was just a freaking idiot drink way too much.
[01:22:49] I needed I needed to blow off some steam and stuff and it was good to have the other guys to talk to and and to be somewhere where you know.
[01:22:57] My loved ones didn't have to see me being just a complete buffoon and then.
[01:23:05] I got home.
[01:23:19] And area living is really similar to areas of Afghanistan so I would find myself in my yard you know and I was back.
[01:23:37] I was back to the back step here and it's so like us you just make it difficult if it's not presenting at you that you're hoping that he's squeezing the trigger as you're stepping to the side and you're going to step out of his.
[01:23:49] His crosshairs doing stuff like that and then um.
[01:23:54] And you go eight months and every stressor that you have is a fighter flight full-brown stressor whether it's the enemy shooting your indirect fire coming in.
[01:24:06] It's hard for your body to come back and then differentiate between somebody not agreeing with you on something you just said or anything else.
[01:24:17] My sleep was completely jacked up based on us operating a lot at night and.
[01:24:25] I had I've always had issues with my sleep so on the deployment I'd start to take and take an ambient than they were given to given it to me and so.
[01:24:34] I was having difficulty sleeping without that and then.
[01:24:39] I think it was the first night or second night I was home the dog started barking and I kept a gun on the nightstand which is just an SOP now it's in a safe because I have kids.
[01:24:51] But dogs are barking I roll out a bad grab the gun and I'm at the ready waiting.
[01:24:57] I just like okay and then Iris you know rolls out of bed and she's or looks up and sees me standing their naked holding a gun next to the bed breathing heavy scanning both the entrances.
[01:25:10] And she's just like oh wow what came back and you know I didn't get a chance to talk about.
[01:25:17] I was just a wife and where I met her but she was a wrangler on a ranch that we go to a lot for training when I met her and she's just just hard.
[01:25:27] A good good good partner soul mate and and she's been extremely patient and put up with a lot of stuff that I'm most women wouldn't have and.
[01:25:39] I was doing I was drinking heavily just and mainly you know as I assessed my drinking issues it was because I was so wound up that it would be four beers is to where I could get myself back to where.
[01:25:55] Everybody else walks around in their daily life or they're just calm because I was just like.
[01:26:00] And that's just a factor from one is not sleeping and then the other one is just coming back from a deployment like that you get it takes you a while to decelerate when people are shooting at you and all these horrible things are happening.
[01:26:16] And then now you're back in society but you're you're not really where you're back here in the US but you're not really you're you're not all the way back.
[01:26:30] And then the second fews will get mad about stupid stuff and all kinds of stuff and finally she said to me she said you know hey baby you're not you're not the same guy you were when you left and I really want you to talk to somebody.
[01:26:48] And so immediately I got on the phone I called up the the site and I started seeing the site and talking through a lot of this stuff that I had going on and started working at getting better.
[01:27:02] And it was it was helpful to talk to those guys.
[01:27:20] And then I was like okay well if I'm going to crowd I'm getting hyper alert and when I came back from the one and I was hyper alert all the time and adrenaline just constant steady drip of adrenaline going in and that's why I was kind of drinking heavily to calm down.
[01:27:38] And then I was like I got into the ambient and that's uh and then my sleep and jacked up and then inflammation and all the other health issues that came with that so that was like kind of the first step.
[01:27:52] I came over to training attachment and you know 2010 and was now running the land warfare section for you and doc partially Kirk Parsley was our diving metaclops or group one and he's a seal later on went and got is is you know doctor it became a doctor he kind of at that point was discovering that all these health issues that we were dealing with was were were
[01:28:20] involved heavily around sleep and so he was able to help me like get off the ambient start doing stuff to take you know natural things to get my sleep back in order.
[01:28:35] Did you ever do the sleep study did he put you on the 3rd year but I did a sleep study later and I sleep at near and so I've got a seat pat machine and a sleep with for that and that helps but.
[01:28:49] You know sleep and diet are a lynch pin like sleep diet and exercise there's three pillars of good health probably is there fourth pillar probably like hypnosis or I don't know those are the big three I would say and getting that sleep fixed up.
[01:29:06] I was in terrible shape at the time and a lot of different joint pains and ailments and so that was good you know I was taken melatonin and he goes how much melatonin you take I'm like oh I'm taking six milligrams like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.
[01:29:24] You know you need your body is going to not make its own and ideally you get to the point where you're not even taking.
[01:29:37] And so that that started me on the on the path and now I was really glad because otherwise I know guys that can't sleep without ambient and I don't think that they're really they're not really getting into the sleep and it's just it's not good.
[01:29:54] And then this time you were working at trade.
[01:30:10] And I was like hey please send me out there this is what I like and and that was good to go you know what's it's it's really interesting and we talked about this earlier as we applied pressure.
[01:30:25] And we talked about it's different troops we would see troops that were that were loaded with super stars they had so much raw talent.
[01:30:40] And we like what I know you guys are good to go what is going on here and then we would see troops that necessarily did not have a whole lot of raw talent.
[01:30:55] And they kept their their off plan super simple and they would just they would be the troops that that like we couldn't the opt for just couldn't our opposition forces couldn't keep up with them.
[01:31:10] And the people the people that it's interesting too because you might think well if you're not humble then you're going to be cocky and if you're cocky with the training guys then they're going to be more judgmental and they're going to push you harder and they're going to jump on everything they mistake you make.
[01:31:31] It's not like that it's like it's so clear that when a when a troop was humble they would fix themselves and fix the problems and the mistakes that they made.
[01:31:42] And when they weren't a book you know you get four or five guys six seven guys in a troop that are cocky and arrogant.
[01:31:49] And that not only are they not owning their own mistakes but they're blaming everyone else inside their own troop and it just turns it's so horrible to watch it's it's horrible to watch because they're at each other's growth or blaming each other for everything.
[01:32:03] And no one's taking ownership it's just a total nightmare and it has nothing to do it's like even completely objectively looking at a troop you just you just watch them fall apart because someone says hey you know what.
[01:32:17] Maybe we should just work together and try and do better which is essentially all you need to do is say wait a second it took us 12 minutes the trade at guys time does on getting our head count leaving that building it took us 12 minutes and in that 12 minutes we took four more casualties.
[01:32:34] Maybe we should look at how we're getting our head counts whatever just whatever little thing. And if you're an arrogant person. You just it just and then get guess what then you end up with a bunch of new guys that are all arrogant because they're all just imitating you know they're all imitating the senior guys there's not a new guy that checks into a team goes you know what my chief seems a little bit arrogant I'm going to be more humble.
[01:32:58] I don't know no you're a new guy you're like I'm going to act like my platoon chief that's what I'm going to do and that's what you do and you end up with a whole whole task unit of just people that don't want to say that they did anything wrong and it again it was just horrible to see.
[01:33:13] Because it be guys that were all over me guys we like we know everyone you know know everyone on on the west coast know every guy like there are friends and you know no and.
[01:33:26] So it was hard that was the hardest part of the job was was having to. You know you're looking at your friend and saying bro man I'm I'm not like you're not I'm not just saying this. You guys are doing really really bad.
[01:33:42] And you need to fix some of this stuff or it's you're not going to get through it you're going to get reloaded yeah and.
[01:33:54] Yeah that was the worst part of the job they might be in it absolutely and that's super tricky just to be able to debrief these guys and doing a manner where you don't sound condescending yeah.
[01:34:00] I mean, um, kind of love that job. I would I would you know go out there had my little voice recorder and I would sit there and I would take all my notes and the voice cards you can't write while you're all the stuff's going on and sometimes I would just record the guys as they're.
[01:34:15] And I'm just freaking out total panic screaming and everyone I just record them and I get back and I'd be like hey man. Okay when you guys got. Strong pointed out building. What will you think and you want everyone to do he's like they just need to do moving I go okay let me just let me just play what you were saying and you'd press play on the record and the guy be like.
[01:34:37] You can't even understand it couldn't even understand it. Yeah maybe like man. Bro this isn't just like this isn't just me and there's some guys that did didn't like me you know or whatever it's like it's not just me and I like you actually I think it seemed like a good dude I'm just saying like.
[01:34:52] These mistakes are bad and they're not just made up man they're not just like I'm not just making it up you guys ran to the wrong target and a whole task unit ran to the wrong target.
[01:35:06] You're in charge of the assault and you ran to the wrong target and everyone followed you and that just you know you didn't you didn't do what you're supposed to do and that's not good. And I'm not just saying this because I want to be cool I'm saying this because it's not good.
[01:35:24] Is this is crazy and with the great opportunity of that is it was a nonstop experiment to where you could watch how guys organize themselves and how they their organization structure responded to pressure.
[01:35:39] Yeah and you could see like oh well these guys are using decentralized command and we can put all the dang pressure we have to bear short of killing every other guy and they can still function.
[01:35:52] The guys of over centralized are commander there just isn't any and I can put a fraction of pressure and then it just cracks everywhere and falls out and that's cool that that I mean again I learned so much from the several years I was doing that.
[01:36:13] And then the personality traits that guys were exhibiting as they came through there and then how they were organized functionally and what worked and what didn't.
[01:36:25] And then the other I just said a bunch of negative stuff about how much it sucked but it was so awesome you'd get these studs these young seal beasts e5s that would just be like off take of this element we're moving and you back I love this guy and I just they would just be awesome and so you'd see that all the time too of course.
[01:36:47] And that was what made it so cool and yes it's the ultimate leadership laboratory to to experience from the outside from the instructor cadre perspective of we're going to put 28 puttunes through this little problem.
[01:37:03] And the only difference is and you could say that there's some difference in the guys but they're really not there's actually like the seals in the butoon they're good they're solid they're fine there's a couple knuckleheads there's a couple great guys there's a couple guys there's guys in the middle but that's not the difference the difference is so blatantly clear the leadership that you just get to see that over and over and over again some this awesome.
[01:37:30] How long did you stay there for? There's three years and then what we're looking next you made master chief and then wrapped up your time at trade at.
[01:37:42] And then it was time to go over to team five check I went over to team five and the way the progression is you you do a slot as the operations master chief and then the next cycle built on until your cycle you'd fleet up to become the command master chief.
[01:38:00] The operations is just it is a crazy job because you are responsible for every single moving part that the seal team does so you're looking at what all nine platoons are doing for training you're involved with where everybody is going to deploy.
[01:38:22] And then the gear they got all the ammo that the order anything in between outside you're dealing with all the other commands.
[01:38:33] So halfway through our work up the ice ice all went and took Mosul and then deployed they split up how the team was organized so that that kind of through a wrench into how we were deploying we had to come up with a plan to possibly deploy half of the team during unit level training.
[01:39:00] It was busy but then it was was a fantastic experience because basically learn how to do everything and then every time.
[01:39:12] So working with with like if someone came to me and they complained to me about our admin department and I would go to admin and like hey what what's going on here and then I would find out that like we'll have to blame and sometimes all of it.
[01:39:26] Lies with the guy complaining about it or hey this other unit over here they're not doing this right and then I just go over and talk to them and find out that.
[01:39:39] Hey they've got some issues I don't know about that we could help them out with or we're not doing everything correctly and so I got I took that stuff that I learned from you know like Danny Carroll and Steve Hines and Monty Tree size and started to apply it outside of just a platoon level but to a command level.
[01:39:55] And a relationship level and it worked out great we got we got a lot of stuff done and yeah I'm a ram on a little bit but.
[01:40:08] There you have that that stuff every time.
[01:40:12] There there was every time there was a complaint this isn't doing the right they suck at this I dig into it and there are a couple times I didn't dig into it and then I'd wind up with egg in my face and now I just dig into everything.
[01:40:24] I take what someone tells me like somebody gets in trouble over the weekend and it's like.
[01:40:31] Okay this is what we heard right now the first story is never the real story and then let's just maybe don't have to make a call now let's wait and let things develop and find out what the real facts are before we do something need you that we can't take back.
[01:40:47] And sometimes it winds out that it's worse and sometimes it winds out it's better.
[01:40:53] I remember one of the things I heard a general say on on the deployment that I was on later on he says he's he's not going to make a decision until he has to.
[01:41:05] I was like hey we want to do this and he goes do I need to make that decision today.
[01:41:19] No okay then I'm not gonna because he can let more facts come in he can deal with more stuff.
[01:41:21] I'm not gonna make a decision.
[01:41:36] And he because there's a tendency for people on staffs to use the the flag officer there they're working for their using them like the.
[01:41:51] The Wizard of Oz right they're like oh the general just said this.
[01:41:56] And they're like well I saw as email and that's not what he said in fact here's.
[01:42:09] I mean for you the email and highlight it and everyone else will be cc to no one does that but there's.
[01:42:10] I've seen happen a lot of times with other leadership who doesn't don't use flat coms where people below them will start saying this guy says this or this guy says that.
[01:42:15] And start doing a little bit of manipulation to maneuver whatever their agenda is or just think get things going the way they want to do but one thing I heard you know just catch on that.
[01:42:27] Don't make a decision into you have to and there's a weird dichotomy in that because you know every there's there's plenty of quotes that are are the opposite of that which is.
[01:42:38] And so good what like we said do the good plan right now is better than a great plan executed tomorrow or whatever or you know you got to be decisive and.
[01:42:47] The reality is there's and I've I've I say this a lot which is.
[01:42:53] If I know that we're if we get we get in tell that there's bad guys in this building in this town somewhere.
[01:42:59] And they're like we want you go hit it that doesn't mean it's like okay okay I decide right now okay yes we're going to go hit it we load up the vehicles and we start driving.
[01:43:08] And we drive there and hit it no we actually go okay let's let the information develop and we'll start planning.
[01:43:14] So I made a decision the decision was to start planning.
[01:43:17] The decision is to go hit the target and then it's like okay.
[01:43:20] Well now it's nighttime we have a good plan but we're not sure we haven't confirmed the intel okay well.
[01:43:28] Let's drive to a forward operating base and get staged right so we've still flexed I've decided to do that but we haven't decided to go hit the thing but we're still prepared to if we need to we've moved in the right direction.
[01:43:40] And then we get it you know intel that well we don't know but.
[01:43:44] A vehicle arrived at this person's house and we think it might be him okay well let's push to a staging point right we still have decided to hit it but we've moved in that direction.
[01:43:55] This happens with businesses too where there's something unfolding a new market right hey this new market might open up okay.
[01:44:02] Let's invest all of our money into this new market right now no that's not a good move what you do is okay.
[01:44:08] Let's let's find out let's let's invest a little bit of money and find out how big that market really is okay cool we do a little study.
[01:44:15] Oh it's turns out that that market does look pretty big okay let's do a little.
[01:44:19] Research and see what it would take for us to push into that market okay cool and so you're moving in the right direction but you're not just.
[01:44:24] Jumping in with this decisiveness to say okay.
[01:44:29] I've seen all I need to see I've decided that we're just going to go all in right now.
[01:44:35] That doesn't make a lot of sense sometimes there's other times where it's like guess what we're standing in a hallway or we're standing in the street and we're getting shot at.
[01:44:43] We're going to get into a building that's what we're going to do like there's no we're not going to think about we're not going to move towards the building no we're going in the building because right now out here we're going to die.
[01:44:52] So yes be decisive in those situations be decisive when you have to be decisive but if you don't have to make a decision the big decision right now and you can make a series of smaller decisions either we're going to have decisions that move you towards what you think decision you will have to make.
[01:45:09] Then go that route.
[01:45:11] Yeah absolutely.
[01:45:13] Okay so you guys deploy to and this is when you guys get into Mosul.
[01:45:20] No that's not following deployment.
[01:45:22] Okay this is what you guys doing this deployment.
[01:45:24] I I went to the the command split up so the I'm CO and the command master chief we're up in Iraq and then I was at another spot.
[01:45:38] Non disclosed location on a crisis response element with the exo and that was six months.
[01:45:46] That was six well we did five months because at the time they said you have to be front door to front door in six months and because you can't predict the airflow we did a five and a half months.
[01:45:58] Deployment and then that was a big eye opener too because we on that deployment I was going to embassy once a week.
[01:46:07] How the boys handle it.
[01:46:11] I mean just they they did good we had a we had guys kind of spread out in different spots and there was a big operation that went on there that one of the national mission for us did and our guys participated in it and it was it was a good like.
[01:46:31] And then we did a shooting deal nothing happened up in Iraq I think it was frustrating for them and then by the nature of how everything was there was a really slow strike process so when our guys could see like.
[01:46:47] Of vehicle born iED driving towards Iraqi counterparts to blow them up it would take 20 minutes to get clearance to drop a bomb on and and only 15 minutes to drive there and like five minutes driver so you they just watch it happen live on TV and they're like.
[01:47:05] So that that aspect of it was frustrating and and there wasn't. Wasn't a real clear decision made on what was going to happen at that point so there wasn't. It was I don't the guys up there didn't do much but just spin spin and spin spin which is is really difficult.
[01:47:22] Hey get ready on every mind. Hey get ready on every mind and yeah that that was that was good so was a good deployment overall it was a good experience for me to kind of like because I was the senior enlisted guy where I was at and so that was great and.
[01:47:45] Came back from that and we did our change of command and then I've fleeted up to be the command master chief and you don't really know who you're going to get paired up with when you're in that leadership role because there's a commanding officer in a commanding master and as it happened I got paired up with a guy that was just awesome and I'd known forever and.
[01:48:12] Two of us are a lot alike personality wise which we really you know like we went to a couple of leadership seminars and you're like you guys are almost the same person so hey here's what you're going to have to watch out for because both of you are really blunt and.
[01:48:28] Yeah I really want the lottery it was a it was a real pleasure working for him. He was a fantastic leader in what he did really well specifically was he communicated.
[01:48:41] A lot so he's he always speaking with his his ex oh is opposite of myself and then the task unit commanders he spoke with all once a week he would have a meeting with them once a week you know and he was all the way down to the platoon.
[01:48:59] He didn't a manner where he wasn't stepping on other people's toes and there was never any.
[01:49:12] There was never any any guessing.
[01:49:12] On where he was coming from or what he expected and everybody knew that he cared about them.
[01:49:19] He was was his first priority and then the mission came after that so that was really good but hey you know what if you if you if you messed up he don't hold you accountable.
[01:49:32] He he he give give you a written counseling and he did that for some of his guys and he just did some shady stuff and they're good dudes.
[01:49:40] And he's like okay well hey.
[01:49:43] I mean, the top here does a written counseling so so that was good but yeah again it's the same message that we talked about in the last podcast which is just knowing where you stand.
[01:49:56] That's having predictability and no when when you know a guy's got a reputation like oh if you step out of line you're going to get.
[01:50:03] You get a normal written counseling that titans people up immediately. Whereas if you think on this guy's kind of a push over guess what you do you cause more trouble and you cause more problems.
[01:50:13] Yeah, you really do and it was like it was all as an escalation with it, but it was it was straightforward and then everybody always understood like, hey I'm not mad at you.
[01:50:23] standards we have here and you did this, here's the consequences that you know we need you to fix
[01:50:30] yourself. I'm rooting for you to fix yourself. I'm not mad at you and then let's just move forward
[01:50:36] from here. Got back from that deployment and then I got back in February. You started this podcast
[01:50:44] in December. I also started listening to it and then like I said podcast six is when I started
[01:50:50] listening to it and then I was caught up within a week because I was able to do it my my longer
[01:50:56] commute and then just you talk about I wish I had this I had the luxury of having this when I was
[01:51:04] in a really important leadership position three full as a husband as a father and as a seal right
[01:51:13] and those the priorities are almost always the same or it's weighted heavily,
[01:51:19] you have been father seal and so all the stuff that that that is discussed here through all these
[01:51:25] lessons from these books and all that it can take and apply to every stinking aspect of my life
[01:51:34] and I did it and like the hardest thing for me was that to really get
[01:51:39] introspective and honest with myself about what my shortfalls were and it's not something
[01:51:44] that you can do overnight. It's not like I can get a shot and get an acculated. It's something that
[01:51:48] is water tortured in and then I just growing so much from it and like I'm gone, it's you know
[01:51:59] the like starting with the the dang sea of machetes season and the machetes season. That was
[01:52:05] like the first really dark pod and I was driving and I was a wincing listening to that I'm like
[01:52:11] why did he do that to me. But then I appreciated how good I had right then then and so now
[01:52:22] as those those podcasts are so dang necessary to understand how evil I could because I could
[01:52:29] I could completely go down any of those roads and then once you understand it that's in your
[01:52:35] heart you can control it but then you can appreciate how good you have it and and you've got that like the
[01:52:44] the episode that you did on the Mylay Massacre. I had to pull my car over because I was crying
[01:52:51] because I was so ashamed that this this is I was just like can't this story be about somebody else
[01:52:58] and not Americans and then later on when when when guys make chief and I talked to you about this
[01:53:06] I'm like hey when my guys make chief we have to put them through all this training a lot of the
[01:53:11] training I don't think is good one of the things I did for them is like hey we're going to listen to
[01:53:15] these three podcasts and mylay was one of them the other one was steel my soldier's hearts which was
[01:53:23] an awesome podcast and awesome lessons and they're all awesome lessons but it was all good because
[01:53:28] guys listen to it and we have discussions and then you know you came in and we've ETC and talked to them
[01:53:34] and that was such good stuff but go around down that road and then being in all these different
[01:53:42] situations at the executive level levels of leaderships and the seal teams and I could see in real
[01:53:47] time I'm like oh okay this is this is I yeah my face is getting flush and I'm a little
[01:53:56] emotionally attached this idea and my my my fists are clenched what do you say he told me to breathe
[01:54:02] all right and then I come back and like oh or someone said something I disagree with them and I
[01:54:07] just ran headlong into you know a pill box and like that did not work out well maybe I can
[01:54:14] learn to finesse it and then it worked out great because I think we did the feedback I've got
[01:54:23] in any way is that we did really good at the team and we dealt well with a lot of other people
[01:54:30] and so that is is a huge degree for myself was having the podcast to learn these things
[01:54:39] and miss military history and then being able just to be introspective and improve on my life
[01:54:48] as well and having these discussions with my cussi listen to the podcast all the time and when
[01:54:52] we we discuss it that just been good for for us across the board you know when we deployed
[01:55:01] on that deployment not during the deployment we did the clearance and the Mosul we had one
[01:55:10] platoon that went to an area and they were working under the conventional marine everything
[01:55:16] well it was all we were all working for the conventional the conventional forces in Iraq in
[01:55:23] 2000 16 17 they were the main effort we were in support of and then our guys weren't to a
[01:55:31] location where they inherited a pretty toxic relationship and they took some of the lessons that
[01:55:38] you talked about and they went in their humble they said hey how can we help what can we do oh
[01:55:45] hey when do you have when are your normal battle rhythm meetings we want to send a representative
[01:55:50] there so we make sure we're doing everything right we're getting the word and they really leaned into it
[01:55:55] they turned that relationship around in a matter of a month completely around and then
[01:56:06] they were in an area of Iraq out west that was not there wasn't a lot going on out there at the time
[01:56:12] but that kernel was so impressed with them and liked them he bent over backwards to make sure
[01:56:19] that he could get them outside the wire so that they could get after it and we were able to get
[01:56:24] them outside the wire and at the end of deployment all five of our platoons had been in combat they
[01:56:30] were the last ones the fifth platoon that hadn't and then they got the opportunity to really mix it
[01:56:34] up on two operations and it was 100 percent because of that that kernel liked them as people
[01:56:43] and trusted them and wanted to see them do well he wanted to celebrate it and when people don't
[01:56:49] like you they want to see the walk across the street to see you get screwed over relationships are
[01:56:55] stronger than the chain of command absolutely and they they had written and I love this because
[01:56:59] I copied this on their on their whiteboard in their their their joint opera their joc they had at the
[01:57:06] top in all caps relationships equal mission success so when one of their e5s went over and talk to a
[01:57:13] Marine Corps E5 they were really cool with them they didn't manage their own security like the
[01:57:20] Marines did security around their camp they would bring dinner out to the guys that were standing
[01:57:24] watch at night just like it was it was awesome and then everybody there was just you know a real
[01:57:31] real sense of teamwork and stuff out there so that was good and that that was but you guys did
[01:57:40] some real tough fighting inside of Mosul yeah now our our platoons that were up north um you know
[01:57:48] when they kicked off the liberation of Mosul which was the biggest military operations since the
[01:57:54] invasion of Iraq and there were I believe three different main lines of approach going towards
[01:58:04] the city and ISIS pretty much controlled everything on the outside guys the first couple days of that
[01:58:11] there were semi trucks that were loaded with explosive vehicle born ied that was a semi like I don't
[01:58:19] think you know outside of the moab we don't have a bomb that's carrying that much stuff coming at them
[01:58:24] um and that's where you know uh EOD chief fine-in was killed on the first couple days when our
[01:58:35] guys had gotten into an area they were they were partnered up with the the the Peshmurga
[01:58:42] which are the who are the guys that occurred on the Kurds yeah so they're partnered up with them
[01:58:49] and they were pressing into an area and they got into an area that was just too laden with iedees
[01:58:57] and they were having to back up their uh their mat v the truck they were driving in and
[01:59:04] Jason had the door open so he could make sure that he was in the same tire tracks of that he'd just
[01:59:11] driven over unfortunately they'd driven over a cross plate once it crushed it halfway they hit the
[01:59:18] rest of the cross plate and uh it was a daisy change of explosives it went off you know bunch of
[01:59:26] it hit him right in the face it was a fairly horrible experience for our guys that were there because
[01:59:33] he was still breathing biologically he was alive for like the hour that they were with them before
[01:59:43] they could finally get a mat of act to him that was too hot the mat of act wouldn't come in so they
[01:59:48] had to offload him off the truck get him in the back of a pickup truck and then drive through all this
[01:59:54] heavy fire and a lot more iedees to get him on on uh onboard uh the mat of act and then you know
[02:00:03] then he expired and uh it it it's the worst case scenario period and it's something that we drilled
[02:00:15] we we started drilling we call it a cake oh drill for when you lose a guy back on the strand and we
[02:00:21] would do full blown drills like okay here's what we need to do um to to cover down on that so that
[02:00:32] we're ready and and um a little bit superstitious i think if we practice to do something a whole
[02:00:36] bunch of times it's not gonna happen and then it happened but luckily it's something that we it's not lucky
[02:00:45] that it happened but it's something that we drilled and more so we had like a book because there's an
[02:00:51] incredible abatum emotion and everybody wants everyone gets excited they all want to do stuff
[02:00:56] and so there it's sometimes you can do there's too much that you can do and you can confuse the
[02:01:03] situation so we we just opened it we had the cake oh book we opened it up and we're like our
[02:01:07] admin agai is like hey what step one he goes down he goes all right we need to do this what step two
[02:01:16] we need to do this there's no way we would remember that we went through it went through the steps
[02:01:24] one of the things that that i was pretty adamant about is because i had a good idea
[02:01:30] although i haven't experienced it directly about what my guys had gone through that were there with him
[02:01:40] and i wanted to get a a psych out to just help them unpack some of the stuff they went through
[02:01:49] but before the ended deployment so he could do two things he could get out there and help them
[02:01:54] unpack what they were you know what they went through and then he built up some rapport so at the
[02:02:01] ended deployment on the the next stop they had some rapport with them so the the group sent sent the
[02:02:11] guy out now this is like three weeks after this happened because the best thing to do is to do
[02:02:17] something and the guy stayed busy because there was a freaking war to fight but then when stuff tapered
[02:02:24] down for them and now like others downtime hey guess what the psych's coming out and he's going to
[02:02:30] hang out there and you don't need to speak with him but he's available and typically he you know
[02:02:37] he'll get out there he puts a thing up hey he wants to be with no one signs it but then he's just
[02:02:42] there and it lunch time a guy hits him up and then later on another guy hits him up and
[02:02:48] yeah and the guys went through and there was there was heavy fighting up until the day that
[02:03:01] that we redeveloped team seven basically came in and we're doing turnover ops and going out
[02:03:06] and doing stuff there and Mosle we had just there was a little bit of a law when Eastern Mosle was
[02:03:12] finally cleared and then there was a big reassessment on moving over the other side of the river but
[02:03:20] it was it was busy and it was pretty good I mean we had a couple of vehicle born IDs that got
[02:03:32] within a hundred yards of our guys before they were able to kill them with and then the the
[02:03:37] drivers got like a kill switch on him so when he dies it gets released and it gets released and
[02:03:43] detonates and there was no shortage of I think there was at least like seven or eight of these things
[02:03:52] coming out of today and then they they've been prepping for months so they were laid in all across
[02:03:58] Mosle there was a garage underground that had a v-bit in it and so as the front line move closer
[02:04:04] all of sudden this car which is drive out and drive right into the Iraqi some blow them up and
[02:04:09] there's no time to hit it with a hellfire or or or stop it or whatever and they had them come
[02:04:18] in pretty quick yeah you know going back to the the casualty plan it's it you were giving me
[02:04:28] almost a hard time but you were harassing me saying like when you're gonna write your
[02:04:32] protocol book because I've talked about you know how you gotta have protocol for certain situations
[02:04:38] that are right like you said things that are real emotional things that are moving real quick
[02:04:43] things that you know you're you need to be thinking about but you won't be able to think clearly
[02:04:47] about when they're actually going on and that's what you're talking about you know you guys put
[02:04:52] together a protocol to follow and the navy has one of the teams have one but you know you got to
[02:04:57] look at it and actually understand what it means you can't just open up a book that you've never
[02:05:00] looked at before so but but that protocol idea for for your life is definitely a powerful thing whether
[02:05:10] especially for things that are gonna be emotional and and rough to go through if you have a good
[02:05:15] protocol commence the protocol step one and and you also talk about the guys continuing to be busy
[02:05:22] and that's absolutely true if you're gonna sit around and what if you're gonna sit around you're
[02:05:26] just gonna think about the the horrible event you just went through and that's not gonna go
[02:05:32] well you're not ready to deal with it so get back to work work let it settle a little bit
[02:05:38] and then you'll you'll you'll you have to deal with it later but you do have to deal with it at some point
[02:05:42] yeah I know that like one of the times that I got to go out to the to the uh to the
[02:05:49] to basically the flat with our guys who are going advising the system they would be about
[02:05:54] three blocks back or four blocks back from the front lines um the civilians that live in
[02:06:05] Mosul would just move away from where the fighting was and then just kind of mingle around
[02:06:14] just outside of it and then go back to their houses so we were at this this one location where
[02:06:19] the the guys were providing support to the Iraqi CTS and we had snipers up on rooftops
[02:06:24] were able to see all the way to front lines and take shots and then we were also using mortars
[02:06:29] pretty heavily we got some 81s and they're just rigging awesome so two thing art so one thing
[02:06:38] I noticed right after this so there's all these civilians around which a little nerve racking
[02:06:43] because who's who right and there are a bunch of kids there were some kids right next living in the
[02:06:50] building next to uh with their families next to where our trucks were parked and uh they were really
[02:07:00] nice kids and they spoke pretty clear English they wanted candy and stuff so we were chatting
[02:07:05] with them a little bit and and messing around and then so we were there all day and then in the
[02:07:11] evening a bunch more kids came out there's a whole group of kids and I don't know if they just
[02:07:16] come in the area or was the evening and they just wanted to come out and plan so there's we were
[02:07:20] in this area where there weren't a lot of buildings so we were right in the middle of this big
[02:07:25] field so you know we could see anything coming and the kids were all planned and then a salvo of
[02:07:33] 120s came in and so 120 million more boom boom and they basically kind of bracket it us
[02:07:45] but then where where one of them landed was right where those stinkin those poor kids were and I
[02:07:53] looked over there and I saw like it's beautiful little girl hop in a way in the smoke and she's
[02:08:02] missing leg and then I saw a guy running out and snatched up a little body and he's just whaling
[02:08:17] I thought you know I thought about my kids at home and what those people are going through
[02:08:23] and how awful it must be and how we just got a redouble our efforts to stop this freaking crap
[02:08:31] that was going on with ISIL because it is just so unsat because little kids are little kids
[02:08:38] you know wherever they're from or what it you know and to see innocent shattered like that
[02:08:48] was rough
[02:08:55] but that's that's part about you know knowing the darkness and what does that do that makes me
[02:09:00] appreciate my kids more and then never pass up an opportunity to hug them or tell them I love them
[02:09:09] anything like that yeah and that those those kind of stories right there you know I
[02:09:20] pretty regularly have to explain to people that there are evil human beings in the world
[02:09:28] that there those those those people that drop those motors they don't care about those kids at all
[02:09:36] and I heard other stories from guys coming back from Mosul after you were there where
[02:09:42] one of the biggest risks that was going on was the the guys doing the EOD job well what does
[02:09:48] EOD guy do he dismantles bombs well they do that in the lowest possible risk way that they can
[02:09:55] which often means if we find or if they find an IED of some kind what do they do they just
[02:10:01] blow it up in place they send a rob robot over there and detonate the thing and just blow it up
[02:10:06] and that makes your job a lot less risky well what was happening over there it was suicide there
[02:10:11] was suicide bombers okay so what do you do with a suicide bomber well what you do with a suicide
[02:10:15] bomber that comes up that's wearing a suicide vest you shoot them and you kill them and that
[02:10:20] makes your job pretty easy because then you can then once you get a dead person with a bomb on
[02:10:24] their chest you can send a robot over there and blow up the bomb well what happened and what
[02:10:30] the some of these stories I got told was that these the ISIS was putting these suicide vests
[02:10:38] on little kids and so you can't shoot the little kid and you don't want the little kid to get
[02:10:44] detonated and it was one of the riskiest things that they had to do and you know that's and again that's
[02:10:50] what that's the kind of thing that that you know there's there's like there's a lot I'm not
[02:11:10] saying America's a perfect place because it is not but that kind of do you hear a story like that
[02:11:22] and you know that there's a some random EOD guy with a wife and kids at home and whatever
[02:11:28] LT's got going on and he puts all that on the line to try and help some little Iraqi kid from getting
[02:11:36] blown up that's say what you want about America but that right there is America.
[02:11:47] We went out to the to the well I the guys were going out to the flood every day I got an opportunity
[02:11:52] to go out with them another time when they were right on the edges of of Mosul going into it and
[02:11:58] the building that they were occupying was a school and one thing I noticed as I was walking through
[02:12:08] the buildings of the school is that on the walls of the school like okay inside the classrooms
[02:12:16] had all the Disney princesses door of the explorer all the stuff that our kids enjoy there so
[02:12:25] it's too full there's there's a thought like oh our western culture and lifestyle is going to
[02:12:30] get overrun negative because western culture on the whole while you said it's not perfect
[02:12:38] it's still the best thing going and it is completely contagious and even over there in Iraq and
[02:12:45] in a school that was controlled by ISIL their little kids are looking at the Disney princesses
[02:12:52] and door of the explorer and you know that stuff western things because it's good it's appealing
[02:13:00] and that gave me that gave me a tremendous amount of hope yeah that's in just our culture and
[02:13:09] way of life moving forward that's the whole idea of months ago when I had said that oh
[02:13:15] you want to solve the problem in North Korea give those people iPhones so they can start watching
[02:13:19] YouTube because you want to couple YouTube videos and you look around that you're you know
[02:13:25] bear in neighborhood where you're eating like a water with salt and it is your dinner
[02:13:32] and you watch a YouTube video of people eating steaks and McDonald's and Subway and you think
[02:13:38] yourself the something's not right here and it's not going to take real long before those people say
[02:13:44] look we're doing this wrong and I don't you probably heard that story about Gorbachev or the Gorbachev
[02:13:47] came to America and when in if you're a story no Gorbachev came to America from the Soviet Union
[02:13:53] and he went into like a of vans or whatever supermarket he went into and he went into the serial
[02:14:00] aisle and saw that there was 390 different kinds of serial in there and he realized that they
[02:14:10] needed to stop what they were doing because you know how many different types of serial there was
[02:14:14] in the Soviet Union one you know that's it and when you try and control everything it doesn't work
[02:14:23] and at actually I remember you call me up one day you're like hey this use like I was
[02:14:27] in this podcast this applies to everything because like it's the same with government I'm like yes
[02:14:32] it is you can control everything if one person tries to make all the decisions it doesn't work
[02:14:37] I was actually going to read this Thomas Sol chunk from when I when I last time I had Jordan Peterson
[02:14:43] on because he lays out this thing about how the government the government trying to control the
[02:14:50] pricing of some kind of pelth some kind of pelth and if the government raises the prices
[02:14:57] every hunter goes and but go goes and gets all these pelts and in terms of into the government
[02:15:02] and then the government what do they have now an excess of pelts and so now what do they do
[02:15:06] with them all they don't do anything because there's nothing to do with them because they they
[02:15:10] don't they don't need it and his whole cycle unfolds where things just don't work with centralized
[02:15:16] command and things like dora the explorer and the Disney princesses and Thomas the tank engine
[02:15:29] and all these Mikey and the dragons these things are going to spread and those evil
[02:15:38] bastards what do they do to try and stop you know what do they do they try and control anything
[02:15:44] any any form of freedom and especially freedom of speech you know controlling the internet all those
[02:15:50] things and it's disturbing to see but I believe that like in Jurassic Park Echo movie reference
[02:16:02] a dead was in that movie it was really yeah he's like one of the first guys to appear in the screen he just walks past
[02:16:08] he's in a still still still isn't something in that movie I think the line is life will find
[02:16:13] away right yep life will find away yes that's what happens that's what happens I think so you know with all these
[02:16:22] these these folks will remember those folks in Mosul they'll remember that they'll remember
[02:16:28] who gave them freedom and by the way it was Iraqi troops which was amazing to hear
[02:16:32] the Iraqi troops fighting hard and sacrificing because in our body it was pretty rough to get the
[02:16:38] Iraqi troops to take lead and when they would take lead the insurgents would be waiting for them
[02:16:43] and would deal heavy blows to those guys and it was a nightmare to watch but it's it's awesome
[02:16:50] that they stepped up and they did the house to house clearance what they have least supported by
[02:16:55] coalition forces by Americans firepower and all that yeah but guess what how many how many people did they
[02:17:01] lose at one point we thought we were going to lose our entire partner force when they first kicked it off
[02:17:09] they were losing they were losing 15 to 20 guys a day and and we did the math we were like
[02:17:16] at this rate and it was because our our strike process was really slow and hadn't gotten decentralized yet
[02:17:22] that was fixed later but we were like okay at this rate in three weeks these guys were going
[02:17:30] our entire partner force is going to be gone yeah and what's really impressive is there we lost a
[02:17:37] battalion in Ramadi that they deserted and they had shown up they did a couple operations they took
[02:17:45] some casualties and they left and so for for those guys when you were in in Mosul to take massive
[02:17:52] casualties and stick it out that shows you that how much that's just leaps and it's it's it's
[02:17:57] incomparable to what was there it was there was there CT their counterterrorism unit which is
[02:18:01] there like premier yeah basically tier one yeah they were all really really good to go dialed in
[02:18:08] and it was just the fighting was so brutal they were losing guys heavily yeah and the other funny
[02:18:16] thing somebody put this on social media the other day and it was like jocco willink predicts the
[02:18:21] future or something like that because I was with on with jolrogant and jolrogant's like what do you
[02:18:26] do about these ISIS guys now how could you ever defeat them and I was like if you gave the ISIS
[02:18:32] problem to like a Marine Corps second lieutenant and said like hey figure on a planet how to beat
[02:18:37] these guys they could do it it's like there's a bunch of bad guys surrounding them and move
[02:18:42] through and kill them all that's what we're gonna do and he's like yeah that actually did happen
[02:18:45] and and that is what happened yeah and it was it was beautiful and the amount of
[02:18:52] attrition that took place was awesome yeah and for those people that think that you can't
[02:18:59] kill an idea they're wrong you know and then there was some of the stuff where the
[02:19:07] ISIL had gotten so hysterical with something there was a video they there's one of those you know
[02:19:11] like do those horrible videos and it was something happened over in Syria and they released a video
[02:19:16] where they you know they killed like nine guys but they were from the local area and and then
[02:19:23] I guess the tribe was like hey can we have the bodies back of our guys you just killed and
[02:19:29] they're like no so the next day at suicide bomber walks into the ISIL headquarters in that area
[02:19:36] from that tribe which the way the tribalism works they're willing to do that and boom clocked off
[02:19:42] killed like 30 people they just you know and and I think there's one or two people that are kind
[02:19:50] of hardwired maybe to do that out of a thousand and they they have to do these videos and
[02:19:56] and force people totally to do that stuff because it's not in their nature and suddenly isn't
[02:20:02] in mind another that's another big misconception is like oh they're just willing to die no they're
[02:20:06] getting coerced and forced into those situations you know that's that's what's actually happening
[02:20:11] like you said sure is there one out of a thousand that's like so brainwashed that they're like
[02:20:15] yes I'm gonna go be a marker sure there is some of those but most of them are hey if you don't
[02:20:19] do this we're gonna kill your whole family so which one do you want and the guys go yeah okay go
[02:20:25] head kill no and I'm talking about the situation two where they've got they all like a guy
[02:20:29] strap to a post with the thing on and then they tell someone go stab them and the guy no one wants to
[02:20:35] do that you know like they're they're doing what the Japanese were doing and we're all war two oh
[02:20:41] okay I see what you're saying hey go hack off some heads for training today go kill some poor
[02:20:45] Chinese farmer go and no one wants to most people don't want to do that and that's like in
[02:20:52] their situation two a lot of those people like I don't want anything to do with this no
[02:20:56] well you got to do it or the result is we're gonna kill your family and then they just get into
[02:21:02] a situation where they're doing it it's not good any on a positive note like on that deployment
[02:21:12] I clean my dang diet up as a result as you know Peter T. Abian on this podcast and
[02:21:17] nine on listen to Peter T. Abian podcast and keep it smart on my health and started doing
[02:21:23] basically I did pretty strict keto there's a couple weeks where I ate nothing but eggs and
[02:21:29] sardines and man that's boring oh but I felt I found you know I am situation one away
[02:21:40] I dropped pounds and I was getting in good shape and then I started experimenting with the
[02:21:44] intermittent fasting which is something that I'm still doing now and that was that's good stop
[02:21:51] did you start that during deployment before on the deployment I'm like hey okay I'm
[02:21:57] going to quit eating sugar because you you'd mentioned sugar's bad for you and I never really
[02:22:02] paid attention to it because I'm a human in the first sugar is bad and then I'm like okay
[02:22:09] I'm like I'm gonna stop eating sugar and I was eating big salads and stuff like that
[02:22:14] and there was a guy that I was deployed with is really smart on this stuff and and he's like well hey
[02:22:19] if you stop eating sugar then you need to quit eating that yogurt and that milk's got a lot of sugar
[02:22:24] and he gets what that fruit has got a lot of sugar in it so man then I started looking at labels
[02:22:30] getting smart picked up a book read it on basically you know how I eat now is is round about
[02:22:39] a paleo thing like I try to avoid grains and carbohydrates and stuff that's processed
[02:22:46] laughing because the other day you're like you know I mean you know like yeah you know I'm
[02:22:50] staying I stay that way but then you're like but if I go to someone's house and they say like hey
[02:22:55] do you want to you know you want to piece of bread or whatever yeah I eat it because there's
[02:23:00] there's another aspect to that I don't want to be the vegan guy who is like hey you know what I'm
[02:23:08] better than you because I'm a vegan so I'm better than you diet yeah and so it's like really
[02:23:15] uncool if someone offers you food to say no yeah so that's that's where that's something I
[02:23:22] weigh out if I was like okay I go over to your house and we're having pieces of dinner that's
[02:23:27] what I'm gonna eat because I can afford to eat a piece of pizza or you're not gonna die
[02:23:32] yeah and then you just gotta watch out for the slippery slope because because it is I say
[02:23:41] not a bread all the time you know no I'm good and then like you said if it's someone
[02:23:48] hey if it's a situation that unfolds where it's like oh I'm gonna look like I'm gonna be
[02:23:55] bringing attention to myself is really one of those down to I'm gonna make everyone talk to
[02:24:00] me about me and my little thing it's like no I'm not that important and I'm just some dude
[02:24:06] who like is weird so I'm not gonna make a big thing out of that yeah and bread's handy I mean
[02:24:14] yeah and eat some meat without getting your fingers all dirty yeah no it's it is it is handy
[02:24:19] and the the lettuce wraps while good in theory and actually have you had someone make a burger
[02:24:28] I had one the other day it was iceberg I said I asked for like lettuce on the burger and it was
[02:24:33] iceberg lettuce cut in like basically in half so it was big two big giant chunks and it
[02:24:40] worked really well I was pretty because normally it's like oh they give you that one big piece of
[02:24:46] lettuce that's all wilted by the time it gets you you can't pick that thing up it's not happening
[02:24:50] you actually gotta use a fork and knife to eat a burger which in its own right is kind of disturbing
[02:24:55] yes if we're eating burgers and we're using a fork and knife we don't respect that I mean that's
[02:25:00] just not something that we're doing but all of a sudden we are if we got wilted lettuce on the
[02:25:04] sausage you should yeah and so you started so you cleaned up your diet what did you weigh when
[02:25:10] you went on deployment hundred ninety three pounds and I'm five foot six and then what do you
[02:25:15] weigh when you got home I think I was 165 how did you feel mentally way better yeah
[02:25:21] way and and and Doc Parsley had already cleaned up your mostly habits so you were basically
[02:25:27] getting on step right as as I've been on step but wait for two years and you know it's
[02:25:34] sleeps like anything else it just got to be disciplined with it I don't get up at 430 in the
[02:25:38] morning I get up around 530 or 6 but I'm really careful that that like you know the lights are
[02:25:46] all out because for me even stupid little lights will wake me up and it's quiet and all that
[02:25:54] and then I got one of those weighted blankets which is pretty cool you must have told my wife
[02:26:00] about that or I listed because we both have a weighted blanket now too it's not on my side of
[02:26:05] the bed it's just on her side of the bed yeah they're not cool in the summertime because they're too
[02:26:09] hot but man I just go to sleep and sleep I don't wake up at all until the next morning
[02:26:16] you know like normally you wake up a couple times during the night and I think you just get
[02:26:19] under there and you feel all safe and like feel like I'm in the womb done you got the weighted
[02:26:25] blanket you got the seat pad machine you just keep it at real yeah one of our mutual friends
[02:26:30] that has a seat pad machine and his wife was like you know when you when you mask comes off
[02:26:39] you know I'm trying to wake you up so you can put it back on and he's like don't you know
[02:26:44] don't just leave me alone and she's like well what if your mask comes off and then you stop breathing
[02:26:48] and he's like well just let me die so that's good so you come home from that deployment
[02:27:00] yeah and then what you doing you got back did you? I went over to trade at and became the
[02:27:05] command master chief there and then started you know preparing to make making sure
[02:27:10] all the fundamentals that you'd stayed in place were still there and they were still there the
[02:27:17] guys were just really hard and doing a good job and then and that was it over running
[02:27:25] unit level training and and seeing that and then work in myself out of a job getting the the
[02:27:33] guy that's my replacement set up to take my job and and here's the deal like as I leave
[02:27:41] naval special warfare they're so good to go and I see the younger guys now that are coming up
[02:27:50] at every level if people like to complain about the millennials and I really don't see any issue
[02:27:56] with them because they're doing good and and when I measure myself against who they are when I was
[02:28:01] their age they're way better. I'm like good this biggest problem I have with millennials right now
[02:28:06] as I look at them like how are you so much bigger and stronger and smarter than I ever once when
[02:28:11] I was 22 come on I told you this other day I I roll in here and I hear some like guys training
[02:28:19] over on like another mat and I look over there and they're clearly young frog men and there's
[02:28:25] six of them and they're all dripping with sweat because they've been getting after it hard
[02:28:30] and they all look like they're yoked and just ready to go start just killing people and I'm like
[02:28:36] what's up fellas we're like we're getting ready to go to land war for us legit. That's just so happy
[02:28:43] and just yeah you're you're right these guys in the teams right now and in the military at
[02:28:49] large if you're going in the military you're doing it for a reason you know when you and I joined
[02:28:53] they want no war going on we were hoping there would be but you're going to now like you know
[02:28:57] what's up you know what you're doing you know what you're stepping into and now retirement you
[02:29:03] could know I think so I'm really excited but 30 years is a long enough time to where I'm like
[02:29:09] I'm ready to go. The hardest part is that like I'm glad that you're going with a feeling like
[02:29:17] hey things are good to go. Yeah. Yes. The hardest part is you start thinking that you like
[02:29:22] that you are so critical.
[02:29:24] And now like, oh, what in the second row,
[02:29:26] there's 10 guys that are just as good as me,
[02:29:29] better than me, and they're all going to get in there.
[02:29:32] They're going to do a better job than I could have ever done.
[02:29:34] And then the other thing is like, when you hear some rumor,
[02:29:38] whatever about something, go inside ways,
[02:29:40] and you get all freaked out because you want to be like back
[02:29:46] where you can help and you got guys going on deployment.
[02:29:48] Like, something, it's just like that.
[02:29:51] You have to, it's just hard to let go.
[02:29:53] And I mean, I'm not saying you're going to be able to go,
[02:29:55] but it's hard to not just think about it the same all the time.
[02:30:03] It's hard to, it's hard to come to grips with the facts that you're not in the teams anymore.
[02:30:08] That's all it is.
[02:30:09] Yeah.
[02:30:10] And then that's what, that's, I mean, I'm super appreciative that I'm getting to work with
[02:30:14] that salon front because the work, the best thing about being in the teams is the
[02:30:18] peer group. And so I'm training right into the same peer group of just a bunch of
[02:30:23] awesome people and then get into go and, and I really enjoyed like a third of my career as
[02:30:31] it's the El Team 5, the other third of it was at trade it.
[02:30:35] And I really, really enjoy working with people teaching, passing stuff on, learning.
[02:30:42] I'm always learning. And that's, I'm super excited about it.
[02:30:47] Yeah. It's like I said, once you get over the fact, and I'll give you little heads up,
[02:30:52] if you clean out your locker yet, it's like 80% done.
[02:30:56] Okay, yeah, that last 20% sucks. That's the worst part.
[02:31:00] For me, loading that stuff into my van and knowing and then your, your car, your
[02:31:06] access card doesn't work anymore. It's just like game over and you just drive out.
[02:31:11] And you know, especially for guys like you and me and you know, you even 10, I mean, I was in
[02:31:17] for 20 years, you were in for 30, but I mean, how many memories do you have at the
[02:31:23] Seal Team 1 grinder, at the Seal Team 3 grinder, at the trade at building? It's like my whole life
[02:31:32] is right there. And you know, when you're leaving, you're just, it's, it's good.
[02:31:38] It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's all those memories are there, but man,
[02:31:43] they're good memories. And I know that if I pick up the phone, guys, the answer.
[02:31:47] And yeah, you know, when, uh, when faculty died, like, um, last year, and I was like,
[02:31:56] the what I felt like all that, yeah, I just felt like all that memory, all that memory,
[02:32:04] that he had of us is gone. Like that he had of me and all my little running mates that I
[02:32:09] just run around with when we were all team one guys, we were all, and like he had these images of us
[02:32:14] and knew us when we were little kids and kept us out of trouble and all that stuff and I'm thinking
[02:32:19] all those things, you, which he had a perspective that only he could have, like, I was like, oh,
[02:32:24] those are all gone. And that was, that was a crappy feeling of just damn why does that have to go.
[02:32:33] And I never got him on the podcast either, which is a freaking shame. Yeah.
[02:32:38] But the good thing is, like you said, um, we're still all just kicking it. Yeah. And I mean,
[02:32:45] really it's like just this, uh, naval special warfare or any organization or team,
[02:32:51] we're just in that for that little time. And then it's shaped us way more than we shaped it.
[02:32:58] We had our influence and it'll just keep on going. And that's what, that's like there's a piece of
[02:33:03] us that's never, ever, ever going to die. The long as this country's around or there are guys doing
[02:33:10] frogman stuff, there'll be a little piece that it gave us and we gave it their move and forward.
[02:33:17] Yeah. Yeah. That's good to go. It's about as good as it gets, about as good as it gets.
[02:33:25] I think that's probably a good spot. And we might both be retired echo Charles,
[02:33:32] but we're not done yet. Mm-hmm. In fact, we're just getting warmed up plenty of fighting.
[02:33:38] I'll be in a different way. Sure. That is left to do and we're going to do it.
[02:33:45] You got any suggestions on how we can stay in the fight. See in the fight. And on the path,
[02:33:49] big time. Yeah. Okay. First thing, you did suit, right? A little bit more direct.
[02:33:55] Relationship to the expression fight. You did, too. You're not doing it. Do it for many benefits.
[02:34:02] So we always talk about not going to go too deep into it. I wanted to. So I was thinking about it.
[02:34:08] You know, some people don't call a Jiu Jitsu match or Jiu Jitsu training or something.
[02:34:12] Some people do something. So this is what I kind of discovered,
[02:34:16] realized that if other types of fighters or martial arts practitioners, they attend to not call
[02:34:24] Jiu Jitsu a fight. You know, like, oh, no, it's not a fight. You know, it's a match or it's a whatever.
[02:34:30] And then you have the totalitarian kind of attitude, which is like, hey, anything that you're struggling
[02:34:36] against another person or another force, it's a fight. Even for you going to the grocery store and
[02:34:42] looking for a certain kind of, it can be a fight. For getty sauce, sir. Fight. Yes. Sometimes. Yeah.
[02:34:49] Especially when I'm doing it for somebody else. It's another element. And the last. So we're looking at it.
[02:34:53] If you and I roll, yes. And we go hard. Yes. Is that a fight? That's a fight for you.
[02:35:00] That's a fight for you. Well, okay. So because I look at it in that way, anything that I'm struggling
[02:35:04] against another person or force or in your case, another person and force, it's a fight. So that,
[02:35:10] you know, with you, that's essentially a good example. Unless fighting all our total war, total war,
[02:35:19] total war, it's good to exercise that. He and her. That whole book. Psychology for the fighting, man.
[02:35:28] It's just so good. But just starting off with total war, when you start to view your life
[02:35:33] through the aspect of just total war. Yeah. Oh, because now we're taking them to the next level.
[02:35:40] This, this work out of it would be total war. Yeah. This person that's trying to get,
[02:35:45] somebody somebody hit me up on social media today said he was getting emotionally blackmailed.
[02:35:52] Okay. He said, what would you do? And I was like, I'm not getting emotionally blackmailed.
[02:35:56] No factor. Steifly or emotion. Yes. So to say, well, you're not because, well,
[02:36:01] you, it's like, I don't even have emotion. So how can you blackmail your son?
[02:36:05] So yeah. I mean, but make sense. Oh, I don't know, though, because what emotions sometimes can be more,
[02:36:12] you know, more of a thing. We are, yeah. For sure. People, you know, there's a kind of everything.
[02:36:17] Yeah. For sure. Unless you, if you have no emotions, so then you're going to have real problems. Yeah.
[02:36:23] It's like, me, you can learn, but you should learn to control your emotions. And one thing that can
[02:36:28] help you learn to control your emotions is jujitsu. Because it's an exercise in
[02:36:35] prepping for all that war in life. Very good direct. Anyway, I want to do jujitsu. We need to
[02:36:40] get enrash guards. Essentially, the uniform uniforms for the jujitsu. And you get that at the best
[02:36:47] one. Anyway, at origin or jename.com. Not to forget it. It is in farming to remain all made in America.
[02:36:55] Yeah. Which is not a small deal. Not just one deal at all. You can say, oh, whatever. No.
[02:37:03] It's, it's a big deal. And what's awesome about speaking of America is going up to farming to
[02:37:08] remain and see a factory with 40 people working in it. Craftsmen making stuff here.
[02:37:18] Bringing back a town. Right. Bringing back an industry. Yeah. That's what we're doing here.
[02:37:23] Movement check. Yeah. Get your staffs. Our other close joggers. Athletic gear. Apparently,
[02:37:31] jeans from what I hear. Yeah. Yeah. You don't know about those yet. American denim. And then we got
[02:37:36] supplements. Yeah. Jason Gardner talked to me about origin. Jocco supplements coming at you
[02:37:44] life. Yeah. I am on the joint warfare doing the morning to it night. Grill oil every morning.
[02:37:52] And I am on the mole train. I am on the mole train. You know, when I get when I want to have
[02:37:58] some dessert. And I, you know what? Almond milk. And then a scoop of the mint chip.
[02:38:07] Milk hit that one. The stick blender. It satiates me. And then every morning my coffee, I got a
[02:38:13] scoop of the vanilla milk. Actually, now that you know the video you made with Tim. Tim for.
[02:38:19] Yeah. Where is like probiotics? Yeah. That was Jason. Jason was like, you know, I wasn't sure
[02:38:23] if I was going to get that stuff. But then I saw it had probiotics. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what you
[02:38:30] need to see. Yeah. Yeah. I pretty much figured it out. I'm like, hey, that could be me.
[02:38:38] You got all this mustache when you go all the way down. Exactly. I was on the site. Look,
[02:38:42] I'm looking at this mole. My man. So first of all, it said keto compliant on there. I'm like,
[02:38:47] oh, good to go. Because a lot of the protein stuff is loaded with sugars. And then I saw probiotics.
[02:38:52] I'm like, okay, I'm done. Here's the issue. It's either loaded with sugar or it tastes horrible.
[02:38:59] Because even you put whatever, uh, sweet, or artificial sweeteners tastes horrible except for one,
[02:39:05] the one that we use, which is not artificial. It's actually from nature itself.
[02:39:10] Yeah. That might be a fun fruit. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, you can get all those
[02:39:15] from originmain.com. And I also realize that you haven't tried the warrior kid's strawberry milk yet.
[02:39:23] Yeah. And I'm going to get that to you. It's you're going to get nuts.
[02:39:27] It is ridiculous. It is ridiculous. So get some of that check. It's true. Also,
[02:39:33] Jako is a store as we all know by now. It's called Jako store. So you go to Jako store.com.
[02:39:39] Is where you can get your shirts. More rash guards. Trucker hats. Flex, fit hats. We're doing both.
[02:39:49] Just we do we know which one sells more. They're even. Really? Or you just make it that way?
[02:39:54] We're even when I checked. When did you check? This is like a bunch of stuff. I'm not sure.
[02:39:59] People say it was true. Nothing he just checked. Did you get it? It is. It's one of the
[02:40:04] things that I can't borrow. I'm a bit of a riled man. You can't look at being say it's equal.
[02:40:09] That's so just don't lie to me. Dude, it doesn't work. I'm like smelling.
[02:40:14] I'll check it. We'll get back to you. Yeah. And see where good now we're good.
[02:40:18] Now there's no factor. I'm good. Here's the thing. They're not trying to look at me and tell me
[02:40:22] something that you don't know. Not the end of the day. You've not. At the end of the day.
[02:40:26] Doesn't even matter. Because look, what if I'm like, ha, like flex it? Oh, but the trooper
[02:40:30] had. See, this is how we should reflect on this subject. We're not talking about it. We're talking about it.
[02:40:34] We're talking about it. We're trying to be truthful. I want the likes of our future.
[02:40:37] We're trying to be truthful. Click. What you want? Tell me the truth.
[02:40:39] That's not what I'm saying. Well, I'll report back. How about that? Is that cool? Anyway,
[02:40:43] who do you like I said? Women's stuff on there? If you want to represent, why we, we,
[02:40:49] are on the path that's where you can get the stuff to represent. You can also get some
[02:40:55] jokbo-white tea. You can get it from whatever. Yeah. It's because it tastes good and it's awesome
[02:41:03] for you. And it gives you 8,000 pound deadlift, which is not, you know, light. Something.
[02:41:10] Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't yet. Otherwise, Echo is going to keep telling you to
[02:41:14] subscribe. You're going to invade your dreams and tell you to subscribe. Whoever you people are
[02:41:21] that haven't subscribed yet, you're crazy. When this is 168 podcasts, this is hundreds and
[02:41:27] hundreds and hundreds of hours of listening, but you didn't click subscribe. We got issues with you.
[02:41:31] So, just subscribe. Don't forget about the warrior kid podcast. Try to tee up a couple more
[02:41:37] right now to get them out there to all of you. So, get some of that. And then also,
[02:41:44] YouTube, we have a YouTube channel. If you want to check that out, it's, it's starring Echo's videos.
[02:41:50] It's starring the video version of this podcast. You want to see that?
[02:41:58] Yeah. So, it's starring Echo Charles's videos. So, check out that. You see what Jason Gardner looks like.
[02:42:05] Yeah. So, that's something. You're going to, you're going to definitely want to see what Jason Gardner
[02:42:09] looks like. Does you think Jason, okay, does, and people please, let me know. Does Jason Gardner look
[02:42:15] how he sounds? I think so. Yeah. I think so. You think so. Well, the thing is, I, I, you're so.
[02:42:24] I saw you and didn't hear you. A lot of people in this sense. Yeah. People will hear you.
[02:42:29] I think you probably, I think you probably look how you sound. I think. But it's hard for me
[02:42:35] to make that judgment because I know you. That's true. I, I, I, I, I, I gotta find that picture. I'll post
[02:42:42] the picture of you and me, age whatever, twenty and nineteen. Yeah. And I wanted to put
[02:42:48] completely insane. So, you guys went in at the same time? No, he went in a few years before and then
[02:42:53] we ran over into each other overseas and just really hit it off. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:43:02] What else? Psychological warfare? Yes. What that is.
[02:43:06] I think it's, right? It's a go into the cell deep, get mad every single time. That's right. This is the one
[02:43:12] that broke me. This is the one where I was like, bro, we're not doing this whole support thing anymore. We're
[02:43:16] done doing it. We're done. I'm not doing anymore. I'm not going to listen to you. It's not happening. But
[02:43:20] here's it's going to go Joe Rogan's down just recorded afterwards by myself somewhere. Well, you can just
[02:43:25] be co-wired. No, this is the proof is going to be in the pudding. Jason Gardner, you know what,
[02:43:29] psychological warfare is? Yes. Actually, you know what, it's not because Jason Gardner's in the game
[02:43:34] deep in the game. Yeah. So, you know, for him to know what psychological warfare is. Isn't a big
[02:43:40] shot? It's not going to be very surprising. Yeah. So, for the people who don't know what it is, this is what it is.
[02:43:47] To now, with tracks, chocolate, chocolate. The thing you got to remember about this, this whole
[02:43:52] segment of us just sitting around and talking for the quote unquote support, which it barely is.
[02:43:59] It's more just like a just a session of but it was because when we got done with some podcast
[02:44:08] early on, it was like being drugged through like the emotional freaking hell. Yeah. And you get
[02:44:15] done and you want to just go home. Like you want to just like, okay, let's you know, it's like my
[02:44:21] my youngest daughter. She'll if she sees something scary or whatever or, you know, she'll say,
[02:44:29] can we want something funny? You know, just and so that's what this actually is is, hey, okay,
[02:44:37] we're going to talk about people getting killed, people getting blown up, people getting blurtured,
[02:44:44] real people by the way. And when we get done with that, we're going to lighten it up a little bit
[02:44:48] so we can carry on. We're not going to forget about it. But we're going to have a little bit of
[02:44:55] levity towards the end. That's what this originally was. Somehow you ended up just saying the same thing
[02:44:59] over and over again. Well, because I felt like I was getting good at saying it. Yeah. It seems
[02:45:05] saying so yeah, so what I did was I did lose sight of something. Yeah. You know, but we're back and,
[02:45:10] you know, I'm going to explain what psychological warfare is for people going up. It's an album,
[02:45:15] with tracks, jockel tracks, talking about how you can overcome certain moments of weakness on the path.
[02:45:21] Boom, that's pretty concise. Cool. Boom. There it is. Next. On it. On it.
[02:45:26] Dot Combo kids. On it. Good company. This is where I get kettlebells. Home gym, home gym.
[02:45:33] No home gym yet. No, I just moved. Oh, yeah. I've already built it. Okay.
[02:45:37] Blossom. So I don't have one right now. Just got the rings, but it rings boom. So my, that's the
[02:45:43] original thing that you need to get. Right. First thing you need to get. I didn't use to think that.
[02:45:46] I used to think it was a pull-up. I've got to change my mind. Yeah. It's more versatility. Yeah,
[02:45:50] because rings are pull-up bar. Ring, yes. They are. And they're also a dip bar. And they're also a
[02:45:57] ring push-up bar. Yeah. Big time. It's the thing. I got my rings from on it. Anyway, on it.
[02:46:04] Dot Combo. You can get kettlebells rings. What? Battle ropes. Those maces. Those crazy maces do work out
[02:46:09] with that, man. You'll be in the game big time. Anyway, a lot of good stuff on there. Go there on
[02:46:15] it. Dot Combo slash. Choco. We got some books too. We got some books like Mikey in the Dragons,
[02:46:22] which, you know, I think might be the best kids book ever written. I don't know. Maybe.
[02:46:29] I don't know. I read this other one. You know, you know, you know, you know,
[02:46:32] the way that we're good. Yeah. Mikey in the Dragons, check it out. It is going to help kids overcome
[02:46:40] fear. And it's an entertaining story. And it's got awesome drawings in it. And it ramps. Yeah,
[02:46:46] I just shipped one out to my buddy on the East Coast. And he's got little ones. And he hit me up
[02:46:52] yesterday down. Texty goes, you know, bro, I just read that to my kids because three hours ahead of us.
[02:46:58] They loved it. That book is awesome. Thank you. I have people that this is odd, but I have people that
[02:47:04] and I have people that say, I get a got a tears in my eyes when I was reading the letter to his
[02:47:11] son. You know, that can be kind of heavy. Oh, yeah. So when I made that original short video about it,
[02:47:18] whatever. Yeah, I should, I think I said this, right? I showed him to my brother and he's like,
[02:47:23] he's like, man, I'm kind of like tearing up. I don't know why. Like what? And we're watching the video,
[02:47:27] you know, the TV. And it's not like it's a super sad thing. But it just, it's like, I guess it's like so
[02:47:33] real, you know, like these are things you kind of deal with. And I have to take on this courage,
[02:47:37] kind of thing. And it's like, I don't know. Two plus I get funny. So check out that. Check out the warrior
[02:47:44] kid books. Warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, kid and Mikey or and Mark's mission. Somebody asked me
[02:47:51] people sometimes ask questions that send around themselves. They're asking you a question. But
[02:47:57] so somebody asked me a question. It said, two words, what is the theme of way of the warrior
[02:48:05] kid? Oh, in two words. So that was the question. So now this person just wanted me to say,
[02:48:12] like, sum up this book in two words. And this was a mandate. It wasn't like, hey, man, could you kind
[02:48:17] of give it this? It was like two words. So I was like, cool, you know what I said? It's actually
[02:48:25] really easy. What is the underlying theme of the way of the warrior kid book series, the underlying
[02:48:31] theme is this warrior kid. There you go. It's like, you want your kids to be warriors. What does that
[02:48:39] mean? You just want them to join the military and go fight? No, means you want to be warriors.
[02:48:44] Yeah. Oh, I think, which actually gets explained in there. So you know, that's the warrior
[02:48:52] kid books, discipline equals freedom, field manual. I've signed a lot of those for your people.
[02:48:58] Yeah. And I bought like 10 of them and had you sign them, do a bunch of guys and
[02:49:03] sent them out. They love them and help people out. Yeah. And then I've had guys
[02:49:08] in the last year lose somebody. Like have someone in the family or friend die. And then I'm
[02:49:14] like, okay, go look at this page. You know, where you describe how to deal with it. Yeah, I actually
[02:49:21] had to use that page myself. And hopefully you don't have to use that page. But there's other
[02:49:31] things that go on in your life that can steer you off the path. And there's other pages in that book
[02:49:37] that will keep you on the path. That's when it goes for freedom, field manual. Extreme ownership,
[02:49:44] everything Jason was talking about what we did at trade at everything that we tried to teach to the
[02:49:51] seals that we're going to go overseas. It's in the book history of ownership. It's in the book
[02:49:55] that I caught in the leadership. They're both in there. You were showing me your notes the other day,
[02:50:00] Jason from from when I in briefed your troop. It's like, oh, here's your notes. You give me
[02:50:08] a send me a little picture. What do they say? They say cover move simple, prioritize next
[02:50:13] excuse decentralized command. That was, I don't know. 12 years ago or something like that. 10 years ago,
[02:50:20] same word to come and out, same word hasn't changed. Learn those. Extreme ownership in the
[02:50:28] economy leadership. Excellent front. That is our leadership consultancy where we solve problems
[02:50:36] through leadership and every organization has problems, all kinds of problems. All kinds of problems
[02:50:42] and every single one of those problems is a leadership problem. That's what's going to fix it.
[02:50:49] It's fixing the leadership. That's what we do. It's me. It's late Babin J.P. to know Dave Burke,
[02:50:54] Flynn, Cochrane, Mike Surreli, Mike Bima and is this me, you a new guy? You're a new guy. That's
[02:51:03] a lot of bro. Yeah. And our latest member, I won't call him a new guy because it really does matter.
[02:51:10] You went to Buds before me. Right. So that's like a real thing. Like I'm a new guy.
[02:51:15] Yeah, apparently. Yeah. Anyway, our latest
[02:51:22] Jason Gardner, who you've just listened to for five hours is also on the team. And if you want
[02:51:30] help with your organization and your leadership inside your organization, go to echelonfront.com.
[02:51:38] Also, we have the master. The master is a leadership conference gathering magical magical. It
[02:51:46] actually actually it's just a master. It is a master. That's what it is. We're all going to get together.
[02:51:52] We'll talk about leadership, get granular and delve into leadership from a lot of different angles.
[02:51:59] May 23rd and 24th in Chicago. September 19th and 20th in Denver, December 4th and 5th in Sydney.
[02:52:05] Extremeownership.com. I haven't posted about this yet. Just the master. I haven't posted at all.
[02:52:13] When I post, it's a lot of stuff. It sells. So if you want to go, all some say,
[02:52:20] as if you want to go, register now, go to echelonfront.com.
[02:52:25] Actually go to extremeownership.com and that's where you can register to come to the
[02:52:32] master in one of those locations. We will see you there. EF online, online, interactive leadership training
[02:52:38] starting to see the cool feedback from people on that. So EF online, it is EF online.com.
[02:52:47] We have leadership training courses online, interactive. What else? What other verbs are
[02:52:56] adjectives to describe? Interactive. Engaging. Engaging. What name you're adventure?
[02:53:03] Two children adventure. Two children adventure. Two children adventure.
[02:53:06] Can I share your experience with you? Can I share your experience with you?
[02:53:08] Yeah. And we're updating it and adding different content to it monthly. So it's going to continue
[02:53:16] to grow and educate both you and us as we all learn to become better leaders if you want in on that.
[02:53:25] I went through that obviously, make the video. And coincidentally, few, like a month,
[02:53:32] maybe month and a half before, I went through an online training for CPR.
[02:53:38] Okay. Okay. So the online training for CPR, well,
[02:53:41] CPR, you gotta do the physical thing to, you know, for the certification, whatever, but there's an online
[02:53:45] training part of it. So, you know, and not too bad, not too bad, the online thing, you know,
[02:53:51] I really went through it and kind of committed myself to it, not as long or whatever, but, you know,
[02:53:55] kind of, so went through it and I was like, cool, good. But there were tangible things that are
[02:54:00] better, you know, you could have done this a little bit more different to actual, actually get the
[02:54:04] training, quote unquote, training that no, someone, you know, might need whatever. So, you know,
[02:54:10] a few months later, I do, I go through the EF online and I'm thinking to myself,
[02:54:17] when I think back on the CPR, this is what they should have did with the CPR thing.
[02:54:21] Granted, the CPR I want to, it could tell is a lot older. It wasn't the way it's contemporary.
[02:54:25] So, I'm not really blaming them, but that's the way I really saw it. I was like, okay,
[02:54:29] this is good. This will give you like the training training, you know, it will allow you to
[02:54:33] make mistakes in an online training or do the wrong thing and then get correct as a hey, you did this,
[02:54:38] you know, kind of, yeah. Well, that's one of the things that worried me, but because you remember the
[02:54:44] Navy, like Navy course, you'd take on something. That was online. Yep. It would be horrible and boring
[02:54:49] and everyone just copy each other and just click through the things and get it done and you don't
[02:54:53] take anything away from it. That was my fear. How does this, if we, if we don't do this right,
[02:54:58] but then as soon as I started looking at the technology and the things you could do and the way
[02:55:02] you could make it engaging, it's, it's, I don't want to say it's better, but if you're sitting in a,
[02:55:08] if you're sitting at the master and I say something and you're like, wow, and you go to write that
[02:55:14] down and then you hear me say this tail end of something else and you missed it. You can't press
[02:55:20] rewind. You can't rewatch it. You can't press pause and be like, that was a really good point.
[02:55:24] I know how I can apply that to my world and just write down how to handle something. You can't
[02:55:30] do that at the master. On online, oh, let me rewatch that. Oh, oh, juggle and life just at a role play
[02:55:37] on dealing with someone in the office. I actually need to deal with a person like that. How should I,
[02:55:46] how should I, how should I, I'm gonna watch that again? You see those little maneuvers take place.
[02:55:50] So that's what we did and we realized that we just don't have the reach for the demand that's out
[02:55:55] there for echelon front. We appreciate the demand and we want to satisfy the demand. So that is
[02:56:00] EF online.com if you want to get fully engaged in our leadership training. That's it. And of course,
[02:56:08] we have EF Overwatch where we're taking all these experienced leaders that have been in combat
[02:56:16] for the last couple decades. And as they move into the civilian sector, placing them into jobs
[02:56:24] where they can help lead organizations using the experience they have and their understanding of the
[02:56:30] principles that we talk about at echelon front in the book extreme ownership and on this podcast.
[02:56:36] Go to EF Overwatch.com where they're standing by waiting for you by the way. And if you
[02:56:46] got done or get done listening to this three hours of conversation, and you want to continue it.
[02:56:54] Further, it wasn't enough. And you're not sure what to do. Well, then that's cool because you can
[02:57:01] actually getting touched with us and have little mini micro conversations with us on the
[02:57:08] in-webs on Twitter, on Instagram, and on Dash, phageable, people have echelon's echelon's echelon.
[02:57:15] I am at at Jocca Willick and Jason has multiple handles go. Jason and Gardner on Twitter. Jason.n.
[02:57:26] Gardner on Instagram and Jason and Gardner on Facebook. You're going to have fun with Twitter.
[02:57:32] I'm just going to let you know because Twitter is the place for somebody with little one liners
[02:57:38] to hang out for Facebook. It throw one liners out into the world and make people laugh or make
[02:57:48] people think and it's just it's it's it's pretty fun. It's remember you ever feel like
[02:57:56] the Terminator robot. Do you feel like that? No. I do sometimes. And one of the ways that I feel that
[02:58:02] is when I'm having a conversation with someone and I see little one liners of what I choose.
[02:58:10] And sometimes I mean if I'm answering questions for a client, I'll be like okay here's like as soon
[02:58:16] as they're asking me I'm seeing little possible answers of how they fit in their world and
[02:58:21] doesn't make sense to them. And I've got to listen and then I just kind of choose when to go.
[02:58:25] And when I'm having but I remember that in like when I was a school child,
[02:58:31] I was a little kid going to school, especially like around what grade is fifth, sixth and seventh grade?
[02:58:39] How old are you? No. Fourth is 11, like 11, 12, 13, right? Yes, I see. It was like every single
[02:58:50] comment or statement that it's school teacher made was just a prime setup to not get out of the
[02:58:57] park with a one liter from the back row. You know what I was saying? You just, I would just be sitting
[02:59:03] there going, I would, I would be so timid at the bite my tongue all day long as much as I could
[02:59:08] because when you're 12 years old, you can only hold it in for so long. It before it just comes out
[02:59:15] and then so anyways you're going to like Twitter because you can use your little one liners
[02:59:20] which you are very very good at and they're always like I said they're always very educational or humorous
[02:59:26] or they at least make you think so you'll have fun with that and don't feed the trolls
[02:59:33] and don't feed the Russian bots. That's my new thing. Be careful, don't click on anything.
[02:59:39] Yeah, don't click on anything, check. All right, echo anything else. No. Awesome. Jason.
[02:59:46] Yeah, I'd like to thank my parents, Jim and Cookie Gardner for all your unconditional love and
[02:59:50] support over the years. My sister Ari, who's a blue belt in the Jiu-Jitsu? How did you do Jiu-Jitsu?
[02:59:58] What? How did you get it? Just listen to the podcast. Listen to the podcast. Immediately
[03:00:02] found a Jiu-Jitsu place up there in San Clemente and started training and then my brother
[03:00:07] Tatyus who's a tattoo artist, Tatyus up in San Clemente at San Clemente Tatoo. If you're going to
[03:00:12] get some ink, go see him, if you're local and thanks to everybody else and thanks to all the frog
[03:00:19] men out there, pass present and future, get some. Hell yeah. And we always thank everyone in
[03:00:29] uniform that protects us at home and abroad from the evil that we talked about today.
[03:00:37] And that includes obviously our military personnel, police and law enforcement firefighters,
[03:00:43] paramedics, EMTs, correctional officers, border patrol, all the first responders and also thanks
[03:00:51] to all of those that did serve and that have done their part as veterans for our great nation.
[03:01:01] Like my brother here, Master Chief, Jason Gardner, thanks for your service.
[03:01:07] Thanks for coming on and of course I'm looking forward to another bunch of good years together.
[03:01:19] Thanks for everything, bro. And to everyone else that's listening, I'll go back to Bea Wolf
[03:01:28] for everyone of us living in this world means waiting for an end.
[03:01:39] Let whoever can win glory before death. So endure your troubles today, bear up and be the man
[03:01:52] I expect you to be. That's how our ancestors lived and that's how they died. So let us do the same
[03:02:03] arise, set forth and get after it. And until next time, this is Jason Gardner and Echo and Jocco out.