Jocko Podcast 162 w/ Echo Charles: Seconds Count: Urban Combat Lessons Learned.

2019-01-31T01:14:50Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening: A Letter from General Kelly to Gold Star families. 0:24:44 - Interview with John Olson, Combat Photographer. 0:27:33 - Lessons Learned, Charlie 1/5, Operation Hue City, 31 January, 1968 to 5 March 1968 1:50:00 - Support: How to Stay on THE PATH. 2:21:48 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

so that's rough and I'll tell you one thing that from my mind where's the enemy the enemy's everywhere that you have to approach things as if the enemy can be anywhere and the only way you can know that they're not where they're not everywhere is when you take something down and you secure it that's when you're not there then you move on we recommend that all intelligence assets recon units and surveillance devices that can be made available are deployed in a significant effort to fix the exact location of enemy soldiers and units again this is you can see where this is coming out of this for these guys they must have been completely outflanked all the time where they were thinking where is the enemy we need to know where the enemy is and it's a really hard to know that the enemy can bat who knows where his enemy is hiding experiences this experiences a decided advantage in surprise and the deployment of firepower of course now again this doesn't like I'm saying it's hard to have definitely doesn't mean you mitigate it doesn't mean you don't put up UAV so you can see maneuver doesn't mean you don't gather intelligence doesn't mean people shouldn't report back and and explain where they think the enemy is so we at least have an estimate hmm continuing the combat urban combat tactics the tragedy of urban conflict is that the battlefield for each firefight is a neighborhood each objective taken is someone's home or a school or church or some other structure that has value and more or less significant meaning to its inhabitants considering the possibilities it is not difficult to imagine tank battles across mall parking lots mortar fire hitting a church a hospital community center heavy small arms fire fights between homes and artillery barrage on a school yard while these images may be grist for the mills of Hollywood when we think about them in relevance to our homes and our neighborhood schools and churches the tragedy is somehow increased however it is our collective belief that the life of one marine is more precious than 10 100 homes schools churches shrines shopping malls or any other building known demand therefore all efforts should be made using any and all weaponry available to stun the enemy and support marine advances through the use of supporting arms and without regard to damage to buildings so clearly the whole idea that this started off with of the rules and engagement that we're restricting heavy firepower because the historical nature of the city but if the rules of engagement or in your case like the rule of people coming over what if what if it didn't just apply to your kids what if it applied to the whole block or the whole town or whatever so it's like just to keep everyone safe we got to set this is the standard which is why we don't want communism because they just make rules that are blank it over everyone well that's how laws are even here you know like the gun laws consider the gun laws first they're like hey we need background check but the good rules got to apply to everyone you know you can't like discriminate kind of thing you they have to apply to everybody okay this rule applies to you but kind of kind of you know just maybe 30 percent this rule applies to him 100 percent of course and him too you 1 percent because you're this elite dude so you can you know you have ultimate like you know it's hard to do that especially when you do a like a bunch of people so that's why that can be a pain and that sometimes you seem to say you're apparently that's been bothered you for quite some well how long you live in America for or on this main land like think about like the court system or like So is that the thing you know because yeah the high ground kind of seems simple straightforward or whatever but is there like a blueprint like a simple blueprint for like I remember you told me a story where your son was talking with like a neighbor or something who had I don't know if you want to Vietnam or something like he was in using the military Away City was to remove enemy forces that it captured major sections of the ancient imperial capital of way during the surprise and VA offensive that was quickly dubbed the Tad Offensive due to the historic listen closely due to the historic aspect of many of the buildings in way the usage of heavy weapons was significantly restricted during the initial days of fighting on both sides of the river as friendly casualties mounted and as initial estimates of the size of the enemy force in a way city area was significantly increased fire restrictions were ultimately lifted so they didn't want to damage these historical buildings and so they said hey don't don't use 50 cal don't use group whatever whatever weapons they said they couldn't use and then eventually when the casualties got so bad they said okay go ahead and do what you got to do I say rip the bandade off right if you're gonna go you go if you're gonna go go don't play around that's a good lesson America learns over and over and over again if you're gonna go to war go to win your number one priority over everything else should be doing and by the way if they would have done that I guarantee this city would have been a better shape at the end because the enemy is gonna drag this thing out and it's gonna take longer than you're gonna have to end up destroying every single building that's there Yeah, because you do, that's a slippery slope because if a comment comes and it like, it's like, what's the worst can comment is the kind that's true or kind of true that like, just like, are you saying like, it won't, it's not a hard time. because you Pepper spray me and I have a knife I'm going to grab a hold of you I'm going to come and cut your head off right in a situation that you you got to use the Pepper spray so like if someone's like burglarizing you and you turn on the light and they scatter you don't need the Pepper spray for that kind of situation you know Pepper spray is for someone who like whoa What tactical course just I have like some tactical lessons that I run you know what I mean that you run like as a father or as a what like echelon front has a tactical course like what do you know I have tactical concepts that I teach. yeah people need to understand that continuing on urban combat is nearly always conducted at very close quarters it is not uncommon to have opposing forces fighting from positions a few dozen meters apart most of the fighting is done from a distance between 50 and 500 meters due to this close in nature it is critical to know where the enemy is and how they are deployed again this is a fantasy like knowing where the enemy is and how they're deployed is really hard to do even when you have even when you have overhead coverage looking in the city I'll tell you an example I was watching my guys out on a mission I was watching on a UAV feed so we're watching we're watching and looking for enemy and all of a sudden we see weird activities of vehicle the vehicle stops the vehicle kind of moves a little bit stops again guys get out they look around open up the trunk and now we're totally focused So in here's the thing like there's other thing like some people in I think we most people like we like fighting So, you're just knowing that allows you to go in and, and know, like, okay, you can read them and you just got to know that that's a successful, but it's pretty much now when Jordan Peterson, like, says he reads it, but like, they impact him. You know you're all being over there 25% because you know that's just the standard you know if you know so there's certain things you have to learn in order to be attacked to be proficient and I my son had learned like I'd gone through seven of the courses to understand the tactical things and there was a friend of my wife's friend came over. You know like if you you know these huge, huge men, you know guys who are like seven feet tall you guess what you also need to be able to protect your family that's good to go you know somebody asked me their days like is is is is actually Tim is actually Tim Ferris who's asking me if Pepper spray is good home defense I'm like Pepper spray is good home defense against a person that isn't carrying a weapon I said but like Pepper spray why would you use like think of a real scenario where you would use Pepper spray as a as a human the girl I get it because you have valuable goods regardless of where you go you know you can be at the post stuff you still got those valuable goods that that predators might want as a girl but let's say okay but you you don't get all that information you just don't get it hey those UAVs how high are those depends on the UAV so like can they see them like can people see them or are they just depends on the UAV and like I don't know what the classification of all that stuff is but on top of that you're to you're talking about like your kids or like you know in the military if you're dealing with like one unit or one little group of people so you can maneuver it other advantage of preparatory firing include the destruction over the camouflage of enemy positions the psychological shock factor against enemy troops and the fact that heavy weapons can create new avenues of attack and egress for armored vehicles pretty straightforward one of the most effective aspects of supporting arms during the battle of way were the killer teams that evolved the M48 tank and the antos and the antos is like a it's it's actually a pretty crazy looking machine it's got 160 16 millimeter like cannons on it I'm saying it's not like on Instagram where it's like, hey, you know, it's like, it's just different. So you know, like sports teams, for example, like a, well, I guess football, say football for an example, you practice for like five or six days just practice practice practice practice. so it's never red because it only turns green when the kid but everyone's gonna all be red and the gate will be closed you know you know that sort of happens and here's the thing you can see the gate's quote no truck is coming even if a truck was coming like they got a stop that opened the gate whatever should you stay at that red stop light yeah it's kind of like this is a no-brainer you know this kind of thing like that's a thing and a lot of times even if you're in that in the moment like you can step back and see that when that happens when people are just like hey you're just defending your position just just kind of blindly or whatever you can see that happen I'm not saying like it's so terrible but where like you know like the guy who's like okay on quiet is this red light yeah interesting you know when the first time I found out that the high ground is the spot to be where when I watch the movie called the rock you're watching a song Connor in Nickle's Gate where the Navy seals come up you know they got to go to Alcatraz they come up through the wherever the dream there's something like this yeah I think about like certain laws where if this is going to be the law the land that this law applies to everybody same thing with rules of engagement where they got it because they kind of got applied to everyone right in a certain way so that's why they wind up being so strict or or you know I don't know if they do or don't go to optics too like real good optics I mean just imagine you know the optics that we have in the civilian sector like oh these guys are getting ready to attack open up the trunk and as they're starting to pull stuff out of the trunk my guys get hit from a different spot that we weren't looking because you can't see everything especially in a city because think of it with buildings as soon as you go off angle a little bit you can't see the street anymore because it's down in the building so we actually are totally focused on this one thing and maneuvering the the air asset to look at these people in a car and as as they're as we're monitoring these guys these suspected enemy personnel I'll send my guys get shot at from somewhere else

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocobodgast number 162 with echo Charles and me, Jocobo-Willink. Good evening,
[00:00:07] echo. Good evening. On the 22nd of April 2008, two marine battalions, the first battalion
[00:00:19] ninth Marines, the walking dead from Vietnam fame, and the second battalion eighth
[00:00:25] Marines were switching out in Ramadi, Iraq. One battalion going home in a few days, and
[00:00:35] the other just starting its seven-month tour. Two Marines, Corporal Jonathan Yale and Lance
[00:00:45] Corporal Jordan Herger, 22 and 20 years old, respectively, one from each battalion. They
[00:00:54] were assuming the watch together at the entrance gate to an outpost that contained a
[00:00:59] makeshift barracks housing 50 Marines. The same broken down Ram shackled building was
[00:01:08] also home to a hundred Iraqi police. They were my men in this fight against the terrorist
[00:01:16] in Ramadi. Yale was a dirt poor mixed race kid from Virginia, with a wife and a daughter
[00:01:27] and a mother and a sister who lived with them, and he supported them as well on $13,000 a year.
[00:01:38] Herger was a middle-class white kid from Long Island. The two of them were from two
[00:01:46] completely different worlds in our country. Not good, not bad, just different. Had they
[00:01:55] not join the Marine Corps, they would never have known each other. They would never have
[00:02:01] even understood that multiple America's exists simultaneously, depending on your education
[00:02:08] level, your families income status, maybe, but they were Marines. They were combat Marines.
[00:02:18] And because of this bond, they were brothers as close as if they were born to the same
[00:02:24] woman. The mission orders they received from the sergeant, their squad leader, I am sure
[00:02:34] when something like this. Okay, you two clowns. Stand this post and let no unauthorized
[00:02:42] personnel or vehicles pass. You clear on that? I'm also sure that Yale and herder than
[00:02:51] rolled their eyes and said in unison something like, yes, sergeant, we got it. We know
[00:02:57] what we're doing. With just enough attitude that made the point without saying the words
[00:03:04] no kidding sweetheart, we know what we're doing. They then relieved the two other Marines
[00:03:13] on watch who turns out we're probably the two luckiest Marines on Earth that day. And they
[00:03:21] assumed they're post at the entry control point at joint security station, NASA in the
[00:03:28] Soviet District of Ramadi, Iraq. A few minutes later, a large blue truck turned down the
[00:03:37] alleyway. The alleyway was no more than 100 yards in length and sped its way through the
[00:03:45] serpentine of concrete jersey walls. The truck stopped just short of where the two were
[00:03:55] posted and detonated, killing them both catastrophically. If you know what combat is like,
[00:04:05] you know what I'm talking about when I say catastrophically. 24 brick masonry houses were damaged
[00:04:14] or destroyed by the blast. A mask 100 yards away collapsed. The trucks engine came to
[00:04:24] rest 200 meters away knocking most of a building down before it stopped. Our EOD guys, our explosive
[00:04:35] guys, wrecking the blast was made of at least 2,000 pounds of explosives. Two died.
[00:04:45] And because these two young infantry men didn't have it in their DNA to run from danger,
[00:04:51] 150 men, 50 US Marines and 100 Iraqis were saved. When I read the situation report about the
[00:05:04] incident a few hours after it happened, I called the regimental commander and I asked him
[00:05:08] for details of what had happened. It seemed different to me. Unfortunately, Marines dying or being
[00:05:18] seriously wounded is common in combat. We expect Marines and for that matter soldiers, sailors,
[00:05:29] airmen and co-scardsmen regardless of rank or MOS to do their duty to stand their ground and do their
[00:05:37] duty and to die if that's what the mission requires. The regimental commander had just returned
[00:05:49] from the site and he agreed with me, but reported that there were no American witnesses to the event.
[00:05:55] Just Iraqi police. I figured if there was any chance of finding out what actually happened
[00:06:03] and then to recognize and decorate these two young Marines and acknowledge their bravery,
[00:06:09] I'd have to do it myself. Because I understood that the bureaucrats back in Washington
[00:06:15] would never accept Iraqi statements for what had taken place. If getting these Marines properly
[00:06:23] awarded had any chance at all, it had to come under my signature as a general officer.
[00:06:34] So I traveled to Ramadi the next day and spoke individually to a half dozen Iraqi police,
[00:06:41] all of whom told the same story. They said the blue truck turned down into the alley
[00:06:49] and immediately sped up as it made its way through the serpentine jersey walls.
[00:06:56] They all said they knew immediately what was going on, particularly as the Marines began to fire.
[00:07:06] The Iraqi police all began firing as well. Then to a man, they ran for safety just prior to the
[00:07:17] explosion. They all survived. Many were injured, some seriously injured.
[00:07:30] One of the Iraqis said to me that they had all run from the danger like any normal man would
[00:07:37] to save his own life. What he didn't know until then, what he learned that very day,
[00:07:47] was that Americans are not normal.
[00:07:52] With tears wailing up, he said, sir, in the name of God, no sane man would have stood there and done
[00:07:58] what they'd done. No sane man. They saved all of us. What we didn't know at the time,
[00:08:14] and what I didn't know at the time, and only learned a couple of days later, after I wrote a summary
[00:08:20] of this bravery and submitted it and submitted them both Yale and Herger for the Navy crosses,
[00:08:26] which is the number two award from Marines and sailors in combat.
[00:08:32] What I didn't know was that one of our security cameras that we had at the location,
[00:08:39] that was damaged initially in the blast, had called everything.
[00:08:47] It had happened exactly as the Iraqis had described it to me.
[00:08:51] It took exactly six seconds by that recording from when the truck entered the alley
[00:08:59] until it exploded. Six seconds.
[00:09:08] And you can watch, and I did watch many, many times on this recording, the last six seconds of their
[00:09:17] young lives. When it first started, I suppose it took a second or so for the Marines to
[00:09:27] separately come to the same conclusion about what was going on. They had no time to talk it over.
[00:09:37] Only enough time to take half an instant and think about what the sergeant had told them to do
[00:09:41] only a few minutes before, let no unauthorized personnel or vehicles pass.
[00:09:50] At that point in the recording, the two Marines had about five seconds left to live.
[00:09:58] It took maybe another two seconds for the two jarheads to raise their weapons,
[00:10:03] take game and open fire on the truck.
[00:10:05] By this time, the truck was halfway through the barriers and gaining speed the whole time.
[00:10:14] Here, the recording shows a number of Iraqi policemen, some of whom had fired their AKs,
[00:10:20] now scattering like the normal and rational men they were.
[00:10:24] Some running right past the Marines.
[00:10:26] The two Marines had about three seconds left to live.
[00:10:38] For about two seconds more, the recording shows the Marines weapons firing nonstop.
[00:10:47] The trucks windshield exploded into shards of glass as their rounds took it apart
[00:10:52] and undoubtedly tore into the body of this terrorist that was trying to kill their brothers.
[00:11:01] On the way of the danger at the time, the other Marines and Iraqi soldiers in the barracks
[00:11:07] could take comfort in the fact that two Marines were on watch and would die before they ran.
[00:11:12] The recording shows the truck co-reening to a stop immediately in front of the two Marines.
[00:11:25] In all of this instantaneous violence, Yale and Herder never hesitated.
[00:11:34] They never stepped back.
[00:11:37] They never even started to step back.
[00:11:39] They never even shifted their weight.
[00:11:44] With their feet spread shoulder with the part, they leaned into the danger, firing as fast as they could.
[00:11:55] They only had one second left to live.
[00:12:02] Then the truck explodes.
[00:12:03] The camera goes blank and the two young men go to their god.
[00:12:22] Six seconds.
[00:12:27] Not enough time to think about their families,
[00:12:29] their country, their flag, for about their lives, or their deaths.
[00:12:39] But more than enough time for two very brave young men to do their duty
[00:12:50] into eternity.
[00:12:51] That is the kind of people who are on watch all over the world, tonight for you.
[00:13:08] And that was a speech that was given by Marine Corps, General Kelly, and he gave the speech to
[00:13:34] Gold Star families. These are families who have lost a service member, killed in action.
[00:13:45] And he gave that speech on February 21st, 2014.
[00:13:53] And General Kelly was obviously speaking from the heart.
[00:13:58] Not only was he the commanding General in charge of those Marines,
[00:14:13] but he also understands loss on a very personal level.
[00:14:20] Because on November 9th, 2010, General Kelly's oldest son,
[00:14:25] first lieutenant Robert Michael Kelly, was killed in action.
[00:14:34] By landmine, while he was on patrol,
[00:14:38] leading upiltoon of Marines in Afghanistan.
[00:14:41] And that story of those two Marines is
[00:14:57] yet another example of the dedication and the devotion of the Marines.
[00:15:06] And we know full well that there is example after example,
[00:15:15] after example from all our branches of service.
[00:15:23] Examples of sacrifice.
[00:15:27] And you can think about those six seconds.
[00:15:46] Six seconds, we throw those away all the time.
[00:15:51] We can waste hours and days. We can even waste weeks.
[00:16:02] As if we have an endless supply.
[00:16:10] But we don't.
[00:16:10] But if you were giving six seconds to live,
[00:16:23] what would fill your mind?
[00:16:28] Would you be okay with that?
[00:16:33] Would you nod your head and think, okay?
[00:16:37] It's time.
[00:16:46] Or would you be filled with regret?
[00:16:51] In those last moments, would you think about what you should have done?
[00:16:55] What you should have said? Who you should have been?
[00:17:11] And in the end, would you realize that there's no reason ever to waste six seconds of your
[00:17:25] life?
[00:17:35] That is one lesson.
[00:17:39] We can take away from General Kelly's speech.
[00:17:42] Six seconds can be an eternity.
[00:17:55] Another lesson we can take away from this speech.
[00:17:59] And from it's author knowing that General Kelly had lost his son is that we have to move forward.
[00:18:05] We have to move on. And this isn't to say, don't feel anything.
[00:18:15] Because that's wrong. And that is not what we are doing.
[00:18:24] I mean, who can fathom the pain that General Kelly felt at the loss of his eldest son?
[00:18:29] As his eldest son pursued a career that was no doubt inspired by the General himself.
[00:18:45] But he moved on. He drove on.
[00:18:48] I was talking to a friend of mine.
[00:19:00] And we were talking about survivors guilt,
[00:19:06] which is something that we all feel on some level
[00:19:12] when we're in the military.
[00:19:14] And sometimes I think people feel as if there's something wrong with them
[00:19:23] or they feel like they're weak because they let their emotions get a hold of them sometimes.
[00:19:31] And I could see my friend stealing that.
[00:19:35] And I told them about an interview that I did with Colonel Tom Fife on this podcast.
[00:19:42] He was an army officer that had served in World War II, Korea and Vietnam.
[00:19:48] He had gotten a purple heart in all three wars.
[00:19:53] And I explained to my friend that as Colonel Fife and I were discussing the men that he lost in Vietnam,
[00:20:05] Colonel Fife got choked up.
[00:20:06] Despite the fact that 51 years had passed since he lost those men.
[00:20:17] 51 years, but he's still got emotional.
[00:20:25] Why is that?
[00:20:29] It's because we care about our men.
[00:20:31] Because we're not going to be able to do that.
[00:20:33] Why is that? It's because we care about our men because we care about each other.
[00:20:40] And it's because while we hear that time heals all wounds, time does not remove the scars.
[00:20:46] They are going to be there and they are going to hurt.
[00:20:53] And that's okay.
[00:20:58] And that's normal.
[00:20:59] It's normal to feel the pain and it's normal to feel the guilt.
[00:21:03] And I think that's one of the hardest things for vets that I talked to
[00:21:08] is that they don't think that this is normal.
[00:21:15] But I am telling you, it is normal.
[00:21:20] Every vet that I've talked to,
[00:21:22] from World War II, Vietnam, the guys that have served,
[00:21:30] and I rack in Afghanistan, everyone feels it.
[00:21:35] It's part of the deal. It's part of the job.
[00:21:40] It's part of the aftermath of war.
[00:21:43] It's always existed.
[00:21:45] And if you're feeling that,
[00:21:55] then you should know that you are not alone.
[00:22:07] What else do we learn from this speech?
[00:22:11] Well, another thing opens up a whole box, a whole Pandora's box of lessons learned.
[00:22:24] We're talking about urban combat and how fast things can unfold there.
[00:22:32] Urban combat is exceptionally stressful.
[00:22:35] The space-time continuum in urban combat is very compressed.
[00:22:41] The threats are 360 degrees. The enemy can be 500 meters away,
[00:22:46] but they can also be 5 meters away.
[00:22:50] And one of the ways that we can mitigate that stress
[00:22:54] and thereby mitigate casualties and thereby mitigate the guilt
[00:22:59] that we all carry is by knowing and understanding that form of combat
[00:23:07] to the best of our ability.
[00:23:11] And as always, history has much to teach us.
[00:23:19] And I want to go now to a direct source.
[00:23:23] The leadership from Charlie I-5.
[00:23:31] Charlie Company, first battalion, fifth Marines,
[00:23:34] Charlie I-5 fought in the Battle of Waysity.
[00:23:38] A brutal battle that took place during the TET offensive,
[00:23:41] Vietnam 1968, the battle lasted from January 30th to March 4th.
[00:23:47] It included 11 Arvin battalions for US Army Battalions,
[00:23:52] three US Marine Corps battalions, support from the Air Force,
[00:23:57] and they were fighting against the strength of about 10 enemy battalions.
[00:24:02] It was a massive battle and way,
[00:24:07] was a built-up city.
[00:24:10] It had a population of almost 150,000 people.
[00:24:14] It had typical urban terrain and also some unique terrain like the Citadel,
[00:24:20] which was a massive walled portion of the city.
[00:24:25] By the time it was over, the enemy had lost thousands of men killed,
[00:24:30] the South Vietnamese, had lost 452 men in America,
[00:24:36] suffered 216 men killed in action and 1,584 wounded in action.
[00:24:46] And here are some quotes from an interview
[00:24:51] from the digital journalist with a guy by the name of John Olson,
[00:24:55] an army combat photographer who is in
[00:24:59] way during this battle. He said, I was in way for five days.
[00:25:04] I'd been in Vietnam for one year at this time.
[00:25:09] I'd seen a lot of battles and I thought I was pretty experienced,
[00:25:12] but I'd never seen anything like way.
[00:25:17] There was tremendous bravery, a lot of dead.
[00:25:22] There was a situation in way where we had Marines in a courtyard.
[00:25:26] They had been moving from house to house and transitioning across this courtyard.
[00:25:30] They had rocketed.
[00:25:35] A lot of them were wounded.
[00:25:37] There was no radio contact. We were pinned down and in pretty bad shape.
[00:25:43] We had an element that eventually came into a leave us and had had a priest.
[00:25:47] And he gave last rights to the dead and he was a very generous priest.
[00:25:53] He offered to give the last rights to any of us that wanted them dead, wounded,
[00:25:57] or not scratched at that point.
[00:26:02] In context, it was such a horrific battle with such horrific images.
[00:26:07] Way was different.
[00:26:10] There were tremendous casualties and no way to treat them,
[00:26:13] no way to get them taken out.
[00:26:18] There were reports and as shown in this image,
[00:26:20] there was a Marine who was badly wounded.
[00:26:23] So badly he couldn't be treated.
[00:26:25] Then he was zipped up in a body bag while he was still alive.
[00:26:34] That's what way was like.
[00:26:37] I was in way for five days and we were under heavy fire all the time.
[00:26:43] One of my favorite quotes was a journalist asking a Marine how many times he had been wounded in
[00:26:48] way and he said today sir.
[00:26:59] So it was a brutal battle and there was just incredible heroism and sacrifice and of course there
[00:27:09] were many lessons learned.
[00:27:13] And while the lessons focus on urban combat and they focus on the battle ways
[00:27:18] city, I think as you hear some of these lessons learned you'll see they apply broadly
[00:27:26] to leadership as a whole and as we know if we understand the way we can see it in all things.
[00:27:34] So let's go to this document.
[00:27:36] Lessons learned Charlie won five operation ways city 31 January 1968 to five March 1968.
[00:27:48] Even under the best of circumstances street fighting is a bloody business.
[00:27:54] This was in the end the ultimate lesson learned by the United States Marine Corps personnel
[00:27:59] who participated in this historical battle, considered by many to be the bloodiest of the Vietnam War.
[00:28:08] The Marine forces involved in Operation Way City lost 142 Marines killed an action during the
[00:28:14] monthlong battle including the initial fierce clashes involving primarily fighting throughout the
[00:28:19] southern sections of the city and the climactic full-scale battles inside the Citadel fortress itself.
[00:28:25] Hundreds more Marines were wounded and had to be met a fact on both sides of the river.
[00:28:32] Enemy casualties estimates range well into the thousands.
[00:28:38] Although Operation Way City will long be remembered as an overwhelming victory over the best
[00:28:43] conventional forces the enemy could throw at us and although the fifth Marines
[00:28:47] overcame very unfavorable odds and ultimately triumphed in the finest traditions of
[00:28:52] Marines in combat in truth this battle was a very close thing.
[00:28:59] At the squad, platoon and company levels, casualty rates were very severe as high as 75% or more
[00:29:07] in some units. This was especially true during the first day of day or two of each units
[00:29:14] initially experienced in full-scale urban combat. There's an important piece right there.
[00:29:24] During the first day or two of a unit going into combat, what does that mean? That means
[00:29:31] then that first day or two day or two you are learning a ton. That also means
[00:29:37] that if you can find out and figure out how to simulate that combat before you enter into those
[00:29:44] situations you'll be able to overcome or at least mitigate some of those initial shock
[00:29:54] things that happen that shock your system and you're not ready for them.
[00:29:58] And I talk about this with doing Jiu Jitsu for instance for females, right?
[00:30:04] If you're a female that wants to learn self-defense and you start training Jiu Jitsu.
[00:30:11] If you don't train Jiu Jitsu and some guy grabs a hold of you, you're in shock.
[00:30:17] You're not used to it. You have to contend with that
[00:30:22] something that you're on a costume too. If you train Jiu Jitsu, guess what? You have guys
[00:30:27] grabbing you every single day. They're grabbing you. They're grinding on you. They're trying to
[00:30:30] move you. You don't have to overcome that. Same thing with combat. The closer you can get to
[00:30:38] simulating what you're going to face in combat, the better you're going to do in combat.
[00:30:42] And you don't have to learn these horrible lessons your first entry. And you know, you and I've
[00:30:47] talked about this too. If you get, if let's say I learned a new move in Jiu Jitsu and I did it to you.
[00:30:53] You, you, I'd catch you. And then I show it to you. And now I'm saying I can't barely catch you anymore.
[00:31:01] Right? That's all it took. All it takes is you knowing and understanding. And it's the same
[00:31:05] thing when we talk with businesses. And we do, we do roleplaying exercises as a leader.
[00:31:10] Yeah. And how do you talk? How do you tell someone that they need to improve their performance?
[00:31:14] You do a couple roleplays and you get good at their objections that they're going to give you
[00:31:17] where the reactions that they're going to have, you can get better. If you wait until the real thing,
[00:31:24] you're not doing yourself any favors. Yeah. It's kind of like an ambush, right? Like an
[00:31:29] ambush is so effective. But if you know the ambush is coming, exactly. It's not even effective at all.
[00:31:35] Yeah. And once you've been ambushed, like I imagine, I mean, it happens all the time. Any,
[00:31:41] any time you, you know and understand what's going to happen, you're infinitely more equipped to handle
[00:31:46] that thing. Yeah. As opposed to, I have no idea what's happening. And I'm going to go and figure it out
[00:31:52] on the fly. Yeah. So experience is the best, but guess what? Experience is expensive. It takes a lot of
[00:32:01] time. So what you have to do is you have to train. Yeah. That's what you have to do. What if the only
[00:32:06] time you, what if you wanted to get good at street fighting? And the only time that you got to
[00:32:10] practice was when you got on a street fight. Yeah. Even if you literally went out every day and got
[00:32:15] in a street fight, two things would happen. Number one, you get arrested. But number two, you get all
[00:32:19] the first street fight, you might pick the wrong person and die. Yes. That is true. Right? Yeah.
[00:32:27] So what you want to do is you want to get into a training environment. Yes. And then you want to get
[00:32:30] yourself skilled. Yeah. Same thing with the military, same thing with fighting, same thing with
[00:32:36] shooting, same thing with business, anything that you're doing. It's another thing. I see like
[00:32:40] business people. There's business people that have been through, let's say, been through an
[00:32:43] acquisition before. They know what to expect their anticipating what's going on. And it makes them
[00:32:50] that better at forcing what's going to happen and mitigating the risk to it. How do you, if you
[00:32:56] can't go through the acquisition, what do you do? Read about them. You know, the interview people
[00:33:01] learn about them, figure out what to expect, but how you're someone on your team that has been
[00:33:05] through an acquisition before. So you get can capitalize on their experience. Yeah. It's crazy. I guess
[00:33:13] when you think about it, not crazy, but it's interesting. So you know, like sports teams, for example,
[00:33:18] like a, well, I guess football, say football for an example, you practice for like five or six days
[00:33:25] just practice practice practice practice. Two, sometimes more hours every single day, you know,
[00:33:31] maybe a day off, maybe. And then yeah, for one game. So it's like there's training, then there's
[00:33:36] performance kind of thing. And they go kind of hand in hand, like you got a performance training,
[00:33:40] and then you know, the game or whatever that you learned stuff during the game too. But it's,
[00:33:46] it's interesting where one game is predicated on so much training, so much training, but then
[00:33:53] when you go to work, it's like you kind of expect to have gone or they expect to or whatever,
[00:33:59] the expectation is that you went through your training already. And then they'll add sprinkles of training.
[00:34:05] But you're talking about like a work, just normal work. Yeah, when you go to work. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:34:09] Yeah. All right. So everyone's from all you'll have a good. Well, that's,
[00:34:12] quite honestly, that's one of the recent Esslon, Esslon front is doing well because people are realizing
[00:34:18] that if you want your leaders to know how to lead, you actually have to train them how to lead. And
[00:34:22] that you can actually do that. Yeah. So that's one of the reasons that it's Esslon front
[00:34:28] is in such high demand because we can actually train your leaders to handle these situations that
[00:34:37] they're coming up against. And when you do that, you have this massive advantage. Yeah.
[00:34:41] And we see the companies that we work with, they, they, their, their performance just improves
[00:34:47] immensely because their leaders are working together and learning how to lead. And it's the most
[00:34:52] powerful thing you can have. Yeah. It's, it's weird because I, you know, I'm kind of behind the scenes
[00:34:57] guy with Esslon front and I see like, you know, any video that's been done, I probably seen it,
[00:35:01] you know, and I'm around, you know, all the time. So essentially, I'm getting the course too,
[00:35:07] you know. And it's interesting where I think probably in a lot of cases, I probably
[00:35:13] am more trained in it than most people, even most people companies that you work with or whatever,
[00:35:18] because I'm kind of getting it second hand and listening because it applies to everyday life,
[00:35:22] you know, like this whole deal. It's not just work. It isn't. In fact, for me, I mean, yeah,
[00:35:27] it applies to my quote unquote work, but it applies to like family stuff, you know, wife stuff.
[00:35:34] And the big thing, this is the big thing, this is a big difference. You know the material,
[00:35:40] you, but you because of your position, you use it on your family, but you know,
[00:35:44] you use it in a work environment. And therefore, you get to learn the technique, but you don't
[00:35:49] get to roll, you don't get to spar. And here's the thing, when we work with companies,
[00:35:55] it's not like, oh, here's this information, and then they go apply it perfectly.
[00:35:58] No, they come back and say, hey, this didn't work. Yeah, I went and talked to Guy and he said,
[00:36:02] that's like, oh, okay, cool. Yeah, here's how you got to overcome that. So there's,
[00:36:06] you got to get the initial information. Yes, but you still have to apply it. Even if you train
[00:36:12] a group for combat, as much as you possibly can, they're still going to have a certain delta
[00:36:19] that they're going to need to rise to when the real failure. And so we see that with companies,
[00:36:24] we see that with individual leaders that are part of companies where they're, and I show up,
[00:36:31] sometimes, you know, there's some people out there that are just straight up in the game.
[00:36:35] And they're in the game before I even show up, like it's the icing on the cake,
[00:36:40] and even people that have red extreme ownership, 10 times they've red dichotomy of leadership,
[00:36:45] 12 times they've listened to every single podcast, and they'll still ask questions about things,
[00:36:52] because they haven't quite put it together. Yeah, but like they haven't mapped it perfectly on
[00:36:57] their situation. Right. And just like I said, like it takes, it takes, like, okay, how you say,
[00:37:02] I don't really get to spar. I do get to spar, but they're real easy. Yeah. Super easy for an
[00:37:07] person. What do I got? I got you. I got my wife, you know, you know, just coming to easy sparring
[00:37:12] partner, technically, yeah, for this stuff. It is. I mean, technically, you're the easiest one
[00:37:16] partner, because you're just like, you're doing the same thing. Yeah. And also, it's like,
[00:37:20] there's no friction. I mean, very little friction, maybe on some level. But that's a song.
[00:37:29] But the, you know, these people at work when they apply it, when you don't, when you have a
[00:37:34] whether it be a corporate job or whatever, you know, anytime where you have bigger teams, different
[00:37:38] personalities, you know, you care about, yes, on different levels. It's like, it takes way more. It takes
[00:37:44] more effort and more time on the mat. You know, people to get proficient to where you look at a situation.
[00:37:51] You go, oh, here's what this, here's the problem. Going to hear this guys, you go,
[00:37:53] you go, you go, you go to a little control, minimize, I just leave a little bit and let him have
[00:37:56] some more control. And that'll make him feel better and they'll do a better job. Like, it takes a
[00:37:59] little bit of experience to get to that point. Yeah. And, and, you know, a lot of times, like I said,
[00:38:05] when we go and work with a company that this fully in the game, and they'll be bad, they'll be nailing
[00:38:11] nine out of ten things. And then they'll be one more thing that they need a little adjustment on,
[00:38:14] and they make that adjustment and they go, oh, yeah, you know, and everything makes sense. So
[00:38:20] training is how you get good. Don't waste your time getting beat up in street fights in order to learn.
[00:38:29] It doesn't make sense. All right, moving on. The ultimate success of this operation could have
[00:38:38] been significantly improved in our opinion by several factors, including one, improved less restrictive
[00:38:46] rules of engagement, including situational flexibility down to the platoon level. This is something
[00:38:50] we hear about all the time. Here's the deal. But what that really means is decentralized command,
[00:38:58] you need to trust your troops. You need to explain to them what is important and what is not.
[00:39:03] Rules of engagement to tell someone you cannot do this. What I'm saying, if I say echo,
[00:39:10] you cannot shoot at this type of building. If I tell you that, what I'm telling you is,
[00:39:17] I don't trust you to make a good decision based on the information I give you. If I was to say,
[00:39:21] listen, some of these buildings that are marked with a star, those buildings are historical buildings
[00:39:28] that will cause the civilian populace to get angry at us. So don't shoot at them.
[00:39:35] If I say that to you and I say, tell you, explain to you why it's important. And then I say,
[00:39:41] hey, look, then again, remember you're in the field, you need to protect your men,
[00:39:46] and you say, God it. And now you go in the field and if you're a good leader and you trust me,
[00:39:50] and I trust you, and I've explained the commanders intent well, and you understand the strategic impact
[00:39:55] of disobeying or of going outside the rules that are not the rules, but the direction that I've given you,
[00:40:02] then you understand that? That's great. And you'll make a good decision because what that decision
[00:40:06] might entail is you're getting shot at from one of these buildings. And now you have to take it down.
[00:40:11] If I don't trust you to make that decision, what do I do? I put strict rules of engagement on you.
[00:40:17] And now you can't do something. And that is not decentralized command. And it's not generally good.
[00:40:26] Do you have to put some broad rules in place? Yes, you absolutely do. But you have to make sure
[00:40:30] that the people on the ground understand that those rules can be bent if they have to and they
[00:40:34] have to have the authority in the leeway to do that. Next, two, improved communication of intelligence
[00:40:40] information to all levels of command. Of course, communicate communication is one of those things. And again,
[00:40:46] I feel I always feel when we go to work with a company. It's one of the first things I have to ask
[00:40:51] is what are your methodology of communication through your company? How do you communicate with
[00:40:55] your front line trips? How do you communicate with your middle-level managers? How do your middle-level
[00:40:59] managers and your front line troops communicate with you? Because sometimes the front line troops might
[00:41:04] see something out on the battlefield that you don't see because you're up in the ivory tower.
[00:41:09] And how do they communicate that back to you? Do you have a methodology? Oftentimes,
[00:41:14] communication is ineffective or they don't have procedures around. They don't have protocols on
[00:41:20] how to communicate. That's bad. So communication up and down the chain of command,
[00:41:26] simple, clear and concise. That's the way it's got to be. Three, acquisition of improved intelligence
[00:41:31] data in particular concerning the disposition and size of enemy forces. That's cool. That's a
[00:41:37] little bit of a universal fantasy for military people that we want great intelligence. We want
[00:41:45] to know the enemy is. If we knew where the enemy is, our job is to be a lot easier. Yeah. So that's a
[00:41:51] universal fantasy. And we should always strive to achieve that fantasy, but it's very difficult to get to.
[00:41:56] But then they go to this, reconnaissance and small unit probes to fix enemy positions are critical.
[00:42:00] What that means is when you want intelligence, go get it. Go find it.
[00:42:05] Gather the intel yourself as much as you can. For improved supporting fire plan access to our
[00:42:13] artillery naval gunfire, direct fire from armored vehicles and air support should be judiciously
[00:42:18] employed. Duploied. So where does that mean we need to cover? We need to cover from big guns.
[00:42:24] Covered move. Five significantly increased training for urban conflict, street fighting,
[00:42:31] practice and preparation. I think we just covered that training is always paramount.
[00:42:38] Six deployment of available chemical weapons in this case tear gas for offensive operations
[00:42:44] during early stages of the operation. These guys use tear gas and it worked well.
[00:42:51] The North Vietnamese army had didn't have gas masks and they didn't like it.
[00:42:58] Yeah, no. Of course, you know there's people when you say chemical weapons, what do we think of?
[00:43:06] We think a mustard gas. There's other, you know there's nerve agents in nerve gas. That's what
[00:43:10] people generally think of when you think of chemical weapons. But chemical weapons are also
[00:43:17] tear gas. And tear gas can be very effective. There's also some people that can just be
[00:43:22] ETF through tear gas. Continuing. Seven improved dissemination of operational plan details down
[00:43:36] to the fire team level. Fire team leaders. These fire team that leaders. If the fire team leaders
[00:43:46] and you're talking about someone that's in charge of foreguys or six guys or something like that,
[00:43:49] really small little element. If those people understand what you're trying to accomplish as a team,
[00:43:56] that means they can execute at their level and make things happen. They can move the ball in the
[00:44:01] right direction. If they don't know where they're supposed to be going, guess what? They can't help you.
[00:44:07] They can't help you. So broad guidance needs to be given. It needs to be updated. People need to
[00:44:14] understand, hey, we're trying to move forward. We're trying to take this area. We're trying to move
[00:44:18] across this line. Everyone needs to understand that. If they don't understand that, they're actually
[00:44:26] no good to you. If you go to fire team leader out on the flank somewhere that has no idea that you're
[00:44:32] trying to move forward or move east or west or north, that person is just sitting there waiting
[00:44:37] for you to tell them what to do. They're almost worthless. So, and this also means if you're
[00:44:43] a fire team leader, and you don't know if you're supposed to be going north of east or west or whatever,
[00:44:47] you should be raising your hand and saying, hey, what are we doing? Tell me what we're doing.
[00:44:53] Continuing on the other side of the scale, small unit experience, individual marine determination,
[00:44:59] the buddy system, the quick learning capacity of Marines under combat conditions,
[00:45:05] the combined leadership officers, staff, and CEOs, and NCOs of one five at all levels, and the
[00:45:11] ultimate ability to coordinate fire support and execute street fighting tactics under heavy fire
[00:45:16] were factors that won this pivotal battle despite incredible odds, high casualty rates,
[00:45:21] and the resulting turnover of officers and NCOs. So, it comes down to your individual
[00:45:30] Marines and your front line leadership that make these things happen. Which, no doubt, the military,
[00:45:39] the US military is awesome in their front line leadership and their front line troops.
[00:45:45] They make so many things happen. Even in many cases, despite poor leadership, you just have great
[00:45:51] front line leadership. I mean, I would say that a lot, you know, you get a platoon that had
[00:45:56] kind of a marginal, and if not, maybe even a bad platoon commander, but you just get some guys
[00:46:01] in that platoon that are awesome. The platoon would be awesome. As long as the leader was humble enough
[00:46:07] to take guidance. If the leader wasn't humble enough to take guidance, they would fail,
[00:46:12] because he would just drag everyone in his terrible ways down. If he had the common sense to say,
[00:46:18] you know what I'm going to listen to these guys? I'm going to let them kind of run with it.
[00:46:21] Patoon would do fine. Continuing on, certainly using 2020 perspective of hindsight,
[00:46:28] this battle could have been decided even more timely and decisive fashion reducing friendly
[00:46:32] casualty rates in the process by paying attention to the fundamentals of planning Marine
[00:46:36] operations. Proper prior planning prevents piss-pour performance, and they actually edited out piss
[00:46:44] because they're squared away Marines. Yeah, got to come up with a good plan and had they done
[00:46:52] that better. This is a typical situation. Hindsight's always 2020. And I always avoid becoming a
[00:47:01] armchair post-game critic. In the military. I mean, I'll criticize someone like a fighter in the
[00:47:11] UFC or whatever, but when it comes to military operations, it's really easy to sit back and
[00:47:19] throw darts and say, well, you know, I would have done this. You weren't there. You didn't see it.
[00:47:25] I didn't see it. I wasn't in the situation. I have all the facts now they didn't have those facts.
[00:47:30] Yeah. Most very cautious about hooking darts into the past. And you deal with that
[00:47:37] situation. You kind of use it. You actually do. You use this as, even when you say you can sit back
[00:47:44] and be a tactical genius. I would ever say yes. If I make a video, you can sit back and be like,
[00:47:51] look at these like 10 mistakes or 10 things or whatever. Meanwhile, there's like a thousand elements.
[00:47:58] So, 990 elements have that to be created well and work and all this stuff. And then you can just
[00:48:04] be like, yeah, those, because essentially, those are created for you. You know, you don't have to
[00:48:07] create those things. All you have to do is poke holes in the tent. Yeah. I can focus instead of having
[00:48:12] to focus on a thousand things. I can take a broader look and see the 10 things that you screwed up.
[00:48:17] Yeah, or one thing. Or all of that. No, no, no, in my case, like, probably just one. Maybe two.
[00:48:23] All right. The following details regarding the lessons learned from Operation Wasted
[00:48:27] are offered from the former members of Charlie Company, First Battalion Fifth Marine Regiment,
[00:48:31] First Marine Division, who served in combat during Operation Wasted City and who were directly
[00:48:36] involved in the battle with NVA forces inside the Citadel fortress from 13 February 1968 through
[00:48:41] five March 1968. Situation terrain. There is an infinite variety of possible landscapes that
[00:48:49] may be confronted by a Marine force given the mission of attacking an enemy force in urban terrain.
[00:48:54] Infinite variety of possible landscapes. What does that remind me of? That reminds me of
[00:49:03] life itself. Hmm. When the tent offensive broke out on 31 January 1968 and conventional
[00:49:11] NVA forces overran major sections of the largest cities in South Vietnam, Marine forces were
[00:49:16] literally knee deep in rice patties in jungle mud. Since first establishing a beach head in
[00:49:22] 1965, Marines had been assigned the mission of conducting a counter insurgency, a rural conflict,
[00:49:28] fighting for the most part of guerrilla army. The tent offensive changed all of that and for the
[00:49:35] first time since the height of the Korean War in 1954, Marines found themselves with a mission that
[00:49:41] involved urban combat. You have to be able to never turn your back on something. I had a fighter
[00:49:53] I was training for a fight and I was like, hey, let's do some groundwork. You know, with you on the
[00:50:02] bottom and the dude was strong. It wasn't a good wrestler. Well, let me say a decent wrestler, but not
[00:50:10] by any stretch, you know, not a competitive college wrestler or anything like that, but solid, strong,
[00:50:16] very strong. I said, hey, man, let's put you on the bottom and the response was, I'm not going to
[00:50:23] be on the bottom. Good. Yeah. Hey, well, even if you don't think you're going to be on the bottom,
[00:50:31] let's train for the unlikely event that you happen to end up on the bottom because it's a fight
[00:50:36] and anything can happen. I don't need to. I'm not going to be on the bottom. So we can tell where
[00:50:42] the story is going. Yeah. You went to his fight and fought and was on the bottom basically the
[00:50:46] whole fight. It was a free round fight. It was on the bottom on this whole time. So it was horrible.
[00:50:50] Yeah. And why? Because you can't, you can't neglect one part of the possibilities that can unfold.
[00:50:59] And even even for us, when we would get ready to deploy to Iraq, we're going to Iraq,
[00:51:05] we're literally going to a desert and going to be in the middle of the desert. And we would still
[00:51:10] do dive operations. We'd still do maritime operations while we were getting ready to deploy. Why?
[00:51:16] Because we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know whether what next war is going to break out.
[00:51:21] So just don't neglect anything. And I'll tell you what else. If you're good at a variety of things,
[00:51:30] you will be better at everything. So if all we knew how to do is enter rooms. What happens when
[00:51:38] when we enter a building instead of being a bunch of rooms is a giant warehouse. So it needs to be
[00:51:43] clear. Like, you got to think about these things. But the more flexible you are, the more capabilities
[00:51:48] you have, that's what I'm looking for. The more capabilities you have, the more flexibility you have.
[00:51:53] So learn different skill sets. Don't neglect things. Continuing on preparing to remove an enemy
[00:52:04] battalion that is captured a 40-story skyscraper, a college campus is much different than
[00:52:09] always a much different mission than getting the enemy squad out of a house school or church in a
[00:52:13] small town. The common factor in all these variations, however, is that in all cases, in urban combat
[00:52:20] structures dominate the terrain. Studying and assessing terrain is a fundamental issue for marine
[00:52:26] commanders when planning mission. This idea of terrain is so important. The way the advantage
[00:52:36] that terrain gives you is, I don't know what to compare it to in other in anything else. If you
[00:52:44] understand terrain, you can dominate. It's like trying to do due to a not understanding arm position.
[00:52:53] Like, where that you need underhooks. If you're going against people, I don't understand
[00:52:57] unhooks, you will destroy them. If you're going to get someone that doesn't understand
[00:53:02] where to position their hands, where to position their arms, you will destroy them. If you're
[00:53:06] going against someone that doesn't understand how to utilize a terrain, you will destroy them.
[00:53:10] If you don't know how to utilize the terrain, you will get destroyed. And by the way, that doesn't
[00:53:16] matter if you're in the city or in rural environment, doesn't matter where you are.
[00:53:24] Studying and assessing terrain is a fundamental issue from marine commanders when planning missions.
[00:53:28] This is even more critical in planning house-to-house combat operations. Building materials
[00:53:32] very worldwide and their ability to provide small arms cover to a very high degree.
[00:53:37] Through the use of reconnaissance and intelligence, we recommend conducting a serious assessment
[00:53:41] of each building or structure that is within your unit's area of operations.
[00:53:46] Because tactics involved in taking each objective, building, structure, etc.
[00:53:51] Maybe different in each case. A small wood frame house may offer the illusion of cover
[00:53:56] from small arms, fire, but little else. In some places, walls are paper thin.
[00:54:01] Even houses that use some form of plaster or concrete construction can prove to be
[00:54:05] unexpectedly porous and at the worst possible times. This is something to consider all the time.
[00:54:16] Things are not always what they seem. That's what's important there.
[00:54:21] Things are not always what they seem. You think you're hiding behind a wall and now you're safe.
[00:54:25] No, bullets will go right through it. Continuing, know the basic layout of a structure as
[00:54:32] much as possible before entry. This is something that I would say our standard operating procedures
[00:54:38] in the US military now are so good that we don't really need to know the layout of a structure.
[00:54:45] We're going to go in and be able to handle whatever the structure, however the structure is laid out.
[00:54:51] That's what we do. If you don't train to enter rooms regularly and you don't train to enter buildings
[00:55:00] and you don't train to be able to contend with all these varieties of things that you could face,
[00:55:05] you won't be able to. If you try and say, okay, we need to know what the building looks like inside
[00:55:09] before you go in there that's a horrible idea. It's not going to happen. And by the way, when you go
[00:55:14] in there, the first thing you're going to come across is a barricade. When you can't go down the hallway
[00:55:18] and you've got to go through these other rooms that you weren't expecting. Continuing, approaching
[00:55:24] structure with an entry plan and a search plan and make sure each member of the fire team in
[00:55:29] squad is well versed in these plans. What I say instead of that, it's not plans. These are standard operating
[00:55:34] procedures. You develop standard operating procedures so you know what to do when you end
[00:55:38] rebuilding and so does everyone on the team. Establish voice codes and commands and communicate
[00:55:44] regularly with each other. Yes. Consider entry ways, existing doors and windows to be extremely
[00:55:50] dangerous, likely locations for Ruby traps and to be avoided if at all possible. Wherever possible,
[00:55:55] blow entry holes using satchel charges or rockets. Once the entry plan is finalized and understood,
[00:56:00] it must be executed with fierce determination. Be prepared for anything and be ready to improvise.
[00:56:08] Be systematic and check everything basements sewer, access, add-X rooftop trash cans,
[00:56:14] thoroughly before establishing that the objective is secure. So what I want the most important
[00:56:18] things I take away from that is that the existing entry ways you got to consider them dangerous.
[00:56:26] How do we translate that into life? What that means is these well-established patterns are exactly
[00:56:33] that and I'm not saying you can't ever use a pattern that someone else used but you at least at a
[00:56:40] minimum have to be aware of the fact that when you're doing something, when you're using a path
[00:56:46] that someone else is already gone down, it's a known path. So you can't expect to be able to surprise
[00:56:55] your competitor when you're doing something that's always been done the same way. Go to.
[00:56:59] Think of how you can approach things in a different manner and if in fact that manner might be
[00:57:05] better. Sometimes you look at things from a different angle and you realize that the reason that
[00:57:10] everyone does it this way is because that's the best possible way and to make some huge
[00:57:14] hurty lean effort to try and do something to just to be different sometimes that's the wrong answer.
[00:57:20] I get that but consider it. Yeah a lot of times those the sweet and like certain industries are
[00:57:27] like this but I'm gonna name them but they're so used to doing it a certain way because that's
[00:57:33] sort of like what they learned. Yeah it's all for sure. It's almost like as an industry they don't
[00:57:37] think of like what why they're doing it that way. Well yeah that's why that's why there's been
[00:57:43] so many disruptors right in the last few years. I mean you can look at any of these
[00:57:49] disruptors companies that are come out of nowhere that you know you can look at the
[00:57:54] ride sharing applications. If you were a taxi driver you were thinking okay how can we get more
[00:58:00] dispatchers how can I hire more cars. These you know these ride sharing people said oh we're not
[00:58:06] gonna own any cars. Same with Airbnb right we're not gonna build a hotel we're gonna use a random
[00:58:15] people's houses and put you in there that's looking at it from a completely different angle.
[00:58:21] Seeing a problem and coming up with a completely different solution if you looked at a city and said oh
[00:58:26] wow there's no rooms in that city there's no hotel rooms in that city where am I gonna put
[00:58:30] everyone okay well let's do whatever one else does. We'll build a building and we'll put rooms in there
[00:58:36] and we'll staff the building and we'll put a restaurant. That's what you do. That's what's been done.
[00:58:41] Guess what? Someone else looked at that and said you know there's nowhere to stay in that city
[00:58:48] but some people might have empty rooms in their house. Let's let's see if we can access those.
[00:58:53] Yeah boom there you go. Yeah I wonder how it was that where the guy would want to look at you
[00:58:57] like hey shoot I can't find a hotel room when I go to San Francisco and then the friend was like hey
[00:59:03] just come say with me. And then when he stayed with them he was like you know next time you come
[00:59:08] if you can't find a hotel room you can always stay with me. But I call yeah hey I'm not the only one
[00:59:12] right away I'm coming up here I'm coming up on you know my company's pay me come up here so
[00:59:17] I can get them you know they'll give me money for the room so maybe I could just pay you. Yeah
[00:59:21] and you go oh cool we're kind of kind of getting a little help us kick back for the company. Yeah cool and
[00:59:27] then the next thing you know hey I bet other cities have I know a guy down the road he has room
[00:59:33] because really you so if you have any co-workers or no and if you know anybody you know that guy too
[00:59:37] oh simple as that yeah simple as that but it's looking at it from a different angle
[00:59:45] so look at things from a different angle then what you come up you know fierce determination
[00:59:51] fierce determination is always good yeah makes sense there are dichotomy it's a fierce determination
[00:59:56] yes there is can you have someone that's two fierce lead determination. First lead determined yes you can
[01:00:03] yes you can they don't know when to stop me next the other aspect of urban terrain are the
[01:00:14] spaces between building streets alleys and other pathways are normal routes for humans and therefore
[01:00:20] must be suspected to be under observation and possible enemy firing lanes whenever possible
[01:00:28] take the most difficult route from house to house same thing we just talked about look for a different path
[01:00:36] established and then and there's obviously there's a dichotomy to that because if you're constantly
[01:00:41] just taking a hard road all the time you might not make any progress it's also bad.
[01:00:45] establishing advanced a plan of what to do and the event non-combatants are found in urban zones
[01:00:51] and from marking buildings that have been cleared it's kind of crazy that they didn't have
[01:00:55] an idea of how they were going to mark buildings that were cleared. Continuing make absolutely
[01:01:02] sure that your Marines are aware that while inside of building being secured they are at risk
[01:01:07] from both within and without always assume that every room of every floor in each and every house
[01:01:14] contains enemy soldiers always move very quickly when moving in front of windows or
[01:01:20] doorways always know where enemy positions may be in buildings that are adjacent to yours
[01:01:25] as in all marine operations watching your buddies back watch your buddies back and run as fast as
[01:01:31] possible when traversing open ground can't let your guard down. Can't let your guard down.
[01:01:43] Where do you let your guard down? Yeah. Can't tell you. It's probably a pretty broad area.
[01:01:50] 100% of my life. Is there any time where you feel like hey I need to get my guard up?
[01:01:57] This is probably an easier question for you. You're not just running around hyper paranoid like I am.
[01:02:03] Yeah. Yeah. What? In life? You mean or in GG2? Like everything? Yeah. Like oh,
[01:02:11] I don't know. It put it this way my guard's always up but it's only kind of up. I think you know it's like a
[01:02:18] 25% and it flak kind of fluctuates from moment to moment. Luxuates up from like zero.
[01:02:24] It stays at 25 sometimes it goes up to like 30. Yeah. Certain scenarios. Yeah. Check.
[01:02:30] Multiple story structures present in even greater challenge in single story buildings in medium-sized
[01:02:35] village or town or small city that is dominated by one two and three story buildings be very
[01:02:40] particular about the taller buildings which are naturally used by the enemy as high ground.
[01:02:46] If possible make entry to taller multi-level buildings via the roof and works systematically
[01:02:51] and thoroughly downward always look for the high ground. So is that the thing you know because
[01:02:58] yeah the high ground kind of seems simple straightforward or whatever but is there like a
[01:03:06] blueprint like a simple blueprint for like I remember you told me a story where your son was talking
[01:03:13] with like a neighbor or something who had I don't know if you want to Vietnam or something like
[01:03:18] he was in using the military whatever and you get and they played like laser tag or something
[01:03:22] and you sound like whooped him because he knew like something. Well yeah my son knew some fundamental
[01:03:29] tactics. His own energy younger so he wasn't really up to speed yet he was like seven or six
[01:03:36] but you know not up to us. We started you know he was he was already through I think
[01:03:41] I think it was through level seven of my tactical course
[01:03:44] um yeah he's probably around level seven. What tactical course just I have like some tactical lessons
[01:03:51] that I run you know what I mean that you run like as a father or as a what like echelon front
[01:03:57] has a tactical course like what do you know I have tactical concepts that I teach.
[01:04:01] How do you teach? Well I can't teach me nothing. You know you're all being over there 25%
[01:04:08] because you know that's just the standard you know if you know so there's certain things you have to learn
[01:04:13] in order to be attacked to be proficient and I my son had learned like I'd gone through seven of the
[01:04:19] courses to understand the tactical things and there was a friend of my wife's friend came over.
[01:04:28] He yes he was prior uh Marine actually he was active duty Marine and yes my son challenged him to a
[01:04:36] laser tag competition and yes my son was victorious three times in a row and in the
[01:04:44] he just did simple fundamental tactics and it wasn't even team at sporters one on one.
[01:04:49] So how do you defeat someone one on one? Well you maneuver very quickly you don't fire from the
[01:04:56] same same position multiple times you get the high ground because you like he knew if you get
[01:05:03] onto my garage roof which had access with a ladder you're gonna be able to defend that position
[01:05:10] very thoroughly and the person that's below you because all you have to do when you're on the
[01:05:13] garage roof is dark and you're hidden it's a parapet roof so you're all you if there's a deck up
[01:05:19] there yeah there's one access point how are you gonna beat me you don't have grenades with the
[01:05:23] late you don't laser grenades so I have the high ground yeah I'm seven years old or six years old
[01:05:30] I have the high ground I have a laser weapon you're trying to attack me you're gonna die yeah and then
[01:05:35] the next round when you're trying to get up on that thing I'm not there anymore yeah I'm in the alley
[01:05:40] way up the alley way up behind the fence higher still higher still so the high ground is kind of like
[01:05:47] the golden go through yeah interesting you know when the first time I found out that the high ground
[01:05:54] is the spot to be where when I watch the movie called the rock you're watching a song Connor in
[01:06:00] Nickle's Gate where the Navy seals come up you know they got to go to Alcatraz they come up through
[01:06:05] the wherever the dream there's something like this yeah and they get you know boom they're
[01:06:10] sort of surprised by the I think they're Marines yeah the Terry they're mercenaries at this point
[01:06:16] but nonetheless or Patriots depend. Patriots right exactly right yeah and he was like hey your
[01:06:22] guys just surrounded it from an elevated position yeah it's kind of like this is a no-brainer you
[01:06:28] know this kind of thing like that's a thing yeah and it is a thing you know how and they and they
[01:06:34] killed them all yeah except for Nicholas Cage he didn't die that's that's chemical agent by the way
[01:06:43] right Vx guys that's that's what I was gonna say yeah but you know that was a real or you
[01:06:48] all right yeah let's face it's president just dive deep right into that I was gonna let me know
[01:06:54] this little pearl the little pearl balls they're kind of yeah interesting back to the book
[01:07:03] the mission assigned to Marine forces during Operation Away City was to remove enemy forces that
[01:07:08] it captured major sections of the ancient imperial capital of way during the surprise and VA offensive
[01:07:14] that was quickly dubbed the Tad Offensive due to the historic listen closely due to the historic
[01:07:20] aspect of many of the buildings in way the usage of heavy weapons was significantly restricted
[01:07:25] during the initial days of fighting on both sides of the river as friendly casualties mounted
[01:07:31] and as initial estimates of the size of the enemy force in a way city area was significantly
[01:07:38] increased fire restrictions were ultimately lifted so they didn't want to damage these historical
[01:07:45] buildings and so they said hey don't don't use 50 cal don't use group whatever whatever
[01:07:51] weapons they said they couldn't use and then eventually when the casualties got so bad they said
[01:07:57] okay go ahead and do what you got to do I say rip the bandade off right if you're gonna go
[01:08:04] you go if you're gonna go go don't play around that's a good lesson America learns over and
[01:08:14] over and over again if you're gonna go to war go to win your number one priority over everything
[01:08:19] else should be doing and by the way if they would have done that I guarantee this city would have
[01:08:23] been a better shape at the end because the enemy is gonna drag this thing out and it's gonna take
[01:08:28] longer than you're gonna have to end up destroying every single building that's there yeah make sense they
[01:08:34] continue in our respectful opinion our ability to successfully complete the mission was initially
[01:08:40] severely impacted by the rules of engagement again this is a lack of trust up and down the chain
[01:08:46] equipment if I have to impose strict rules of engagement on my people I haven't trained them well
[01:08:51] enough I don't trust them they don't trust me they don't understand the strategic mission
[01:08:56] and we have a real problem continuing although it is understood that mission and rules
[01:09:05] engagement are not the exclusive responsibility of marine leadership at the cartoon company
[01:09:09] battalion or even regimental level it is strongly recommended that every effort is made at
[01:09:15] every level in the chain of command to ensure that balance has been achieved between the demands
[01:09:21] of the mission and the effect of the rules of engagement on the ability of the command to
[01:09:26] perform the mission successfully yes you do have to have balance but what you really should have
[01:09:35] is trust and understanding of the situation so that people don't need to be constrained by rules
[01:09:45] if I have if my leaders understand what I want them to do
[01:09:50] and they understand the constraints and they understand the mission and they understand the
[01:09:55] impact they don't need any rules at all they just need to get told to go yeah I think about
[01:10:01] like certain laws where if this is going to be the law the land that this law applies to
[01:10:08] everybody same thing with rules of engagement where they got it because they kind of got
[01:10:12] applied to everyone right in a certain way so that's why they wind up being so strict or they can
[01:10:18] and I'm thinking about laws too where there's certain groups or individuals that's like man
[01:10:24] that law kind of shouldn't apply to me because I know better you know but where like you know
[01:10:29] like the guy who's like okay on quiet is this red light right this is or this stop light
[01:10:34] not quite where the cross road of that stop light is a dirt road and on both and if you turn
[01:10:41] in the dirt road either direction there's a gate that's always closed it's only click hope that
[01:10:45] it's for like cane trucks and stuff or it was I don't know what it is down but and the cane
[01:10:50] truck guys have the key to the gate there's big long get you can't even turn in there but there's
[01:10:54] still a stop light right so it's never red because it only turns green when the kid but
[01:11:00] everyone's gonna all be red and the gate will be closed you know you know that sort of happens
[01:11:05] and here's the thing you can see the gate's quote no truck is coming even if a truck was
[01:11:09] coming like they got a stop that opened the gate whatever should you stay at that red stop light
[01:11:14] or can you just blow through the light you would think any responsible adult should have
[01:11:21] the authority or whatever to see that and just go through the light right but the rules got
[01:11:27] applied everybody that's the thing has to apply to everyone what about the new driver who's like
[01:11:32] they can discern quite as well where a safe red light running situation versus a not so safe red
[01:11:40] light running situation and then there's a spectrum you know so when these rules get put in place
[01:11:45] they gotta apply to everybody the lowest common denominator person and unfortunately these highest
[01:11:52] higher denominational people gotta apply to them too because you know you can't just go down
[01:11:59] the line and be like okay this rule applies to you but kind of kind of you know just maybe 30
[01:12:03] percent this rule applies to him 100 percent of course and him too you 1 percent because you're
[01:12:09] this elite dude so you can you know you have ultimate like you know it's hard to do that
[01:12:13] especially when you do a like a bunch of people so that's why that can be a pain and that sometimes
[01:12:18] you seem to say you're apparently that's been bothered you for quite some well
[01:12:21] how long you live in America for or on this main land like think about like the court system
[01:12:27] or like you know yeah no well rules will get put in place for sure
[01:12:31] because people don't trust the subordinates that have to fall the rule right you tell your kids
[01:12:40] you're not allowed to go in the yard because the pools out there right what you're really saying
[01:12:44] is I don't trust that you're not going to go in the pool or I don't trust that you're that you can
[01:12:49] swim all enough if you're a good leader you'll be like okay we got it we need to work on this you
[01:12:52] can understand the dangers that's a little bit of a weird thing to talk about because drum and
[01:12:56] a pool for a little kid you obviously have to air towards the side of safety that's probably not
[01:12:59] the best example but if you tell your kid no one's allowed to come okay I'm going on a trip
[01:13:05] Friday night no one come over to the house those are the rules right you know if my kids
[01:13:11] actually understood what I really meant is like hey if you want to have a couple kids over
[01:13:14] that's cool don't get crazy don't eat my food no weird stay away from the milk no weirdos no
[01:13:19] you know if they understood all that which actually that's what my kids were like okay
[01:13:23] got a couple kids coming over it's all good yeah if they broke the trust
[01:13:27] then things might be different then I have to go and implement rules yeah but on top of that
[01:13:34] you're to you're talking about like your kids or like you know in the military if you're dealing
[01:13:38] with like one unit or one little group of people but if the rules of engagement or in your
[01:13:43] case like the rule of people coming over what if what if it didn't just apply to your kids what
[01:13:48] if it applied to the whole block or the whole town or whatever so it's like just to keep everyone safe
[01:13:53] we got to set this is the standard which is why we don't want communism because they just make
[01:13:59] rules that are blank it over everyone well that's how laws are even here you know like the gun laws
[01:14:04] consider the gun laws first they're like hey we need background check but the good rules
[01:14:07] got to apply to everyone you know you can't like discriminate kind of thing you they have to
[01:14:12] apply to everybody so it's like man well yeah that's the gun rules are a perfect example
[01:14:17] because they don't trust the the people everyone yeah certain people yeah oh everyone just can't
[01:14:25] have a gun you have to get a background check okay fair enough why but then it goes then it continues
[01:14:31] see that's that's where that's where you run into progress where so much debate about gun laws
[01:14:34] because pretty much everyone says hey I get it you should probably get some kind of a background
[01:14:39] check before you get a firearm everyone goes hmm okay I don't want somebody that's been
[01:14:44] I don't want somebody that's a felon or a violent criminal to be able to get a gun cool I agree with
[01:14:48] that the problem is where does it stop and and then the problem on top of that is
[01:14:55] because of the where does it stop because of the slippery slope thing the people that don't want
[01:15:02] any gun laws they just say we don't want any like every single you know well we think we're
[01:15:07] the background check should be an extra three days no way yeah and meanwhile on the other side
[01:15:14] people are saying every single thing that they can do to restrict firearms from being
[01:15:20] had by anybody they try and move it there so both sides are just take an extreme position
[01:15:27] and no one will actually have a normal logical conversation about what's going on yeah it's just
[01:15:33] and even when you do men it is you're like in screaming yes and that and from the polar polarised
[01:15:39] positions yeah and a lot of times even if you're in that in the moment like you can step back and see
[01:15:44] that when that happens when people are just like hey you're just defending your position just
[01:15:48] just kind of blindly or whatever you can see that happen I'm not saying like it's so terrible
[01:15:52] and it's natural I get it but even if you can have like a civilized discussion it's still hard
[01:15:58] because it's based on people yeah because people get because like for me I should absolutely
[01:16:07] be able to have whatever guns I want right that's that's the way I feel I feel that I should
[01:16:14] be able to and I yes you can check my background you can see if I am a felon or a violent criminal
[01:16:20] you can see that I'm not okay you should be able to I should be able to get whatever guns I want
[01:16:26] and but there's some people that think hey you know but as strong as I feel about that as
[01:16:32] strong as I feel like I should be able to what get whatever guns I want if someone says oh well
[01:16:40] then you agree that everyone should be able to get every gun they want to know actually I don't
[01:16:44] agree with that I think that there's some people that don't need guns I can say that I can say
[01:16:51] that without without thinking without saying oh well jocco believes in gun control for everyone it's
[01:16:58] like no I just said what I believed so the rules are about trust and you have to figure out where
[01:17:05] the trust lies with everyone and you have to figure out what the minimum amount of trust is that
[01:17:11] you can overlay on people everywhere and that's where that's why governing a giant country is so
[01:17:16] hard and depending on where you live to because depending on where you live you have different needs
[01:17:22] you have different like there's some people that live yeah there's the culture's different but
[01:17:26] depending on where you live like if you live in a state where there's predatory animals
[01:17:32] and you live out in the bush somewhere you're you're damn right you need guns if you live in a
[01:17:37] state where there's predatory animals that are human beings that will break in your house and
[01:17:41] kill you guess what you also need to be able to protect your family that's good to go you know
[01:17:49] somebody asked me their days like is is is is actually Tim is actually Tim Ferris who's asking me if
[01:17:56] Pepper spray is good home defense I'm like Pepper spray is good home defense against a person that
[01:18:03] isn't carrying a weapon I said but if someone's breaking into your house or coming to attack you
[01:18:09] are they not going to have a weapon do are they following some kind of a rules of engagement where
[01:18:14] they're I'm going on a basic being a tonight I'm only going to bring you know I'm only going to
[01:18:20] bring my my pillow to hit people I know they're asking your house to kill you or they're breaking
[01:18:25] your house to to assault your family yeah whatever they're breaking in your house to they shouldn't
[01:18:30] be breaking in your house and they're probably going to be able to defend themselves because they
[01:18:34] don't want to get caught so what do they do to protect your family so as they got a knife or
[01:18:37] they got on whatever they got to go in the name so Pepper spray great the problem with Pepper spray is
[01:18:43] you don't you don't they're not following rules of engagement there's a rules of engagement
[01:18:47] yeah that's a good question too but like Pepper spray why would you use like think of a
[01:18:53] real scenario where you would use Pepper spray as a as a human the girl I get it because you have
[01:18:58] valuable goods regardless of where you go you know you can be at the post stuff you still got those
[01:19:02] valuable goods that that predators might want as a girl but let's say okay I'm too far as or
[01:19:08] I'm you know I'm me or whatever why when would I use the Pepper spray realistic I'm sure
[01:19:12] I think I'm just asking that because it's a legitimate question because if someone says look I'm
[01:19:18] not really comfortable with guns but if someone wants comes into my house I want to be able to defend
[01:19:22] myself I'm going to get Pepper spray and the the real quick answer is like yeah okay cool yeah
[01:19:27] better than not it makes you go oh that kind of makes sense right at least you got something
[01:19:32] the reality is the person's coming to your house it's Pepper spray is great as long as they don't have
[01:19:37] a knife yeah as long as they don't have a gun in which case the Pepper spray is doing you know good
[01:19:43] yeah because you Pepper spray me and I have a knife I'm going to grab a hold of you I'm going to
[01:19:48] come and cut your head off right in a situation that you you got to use the Pepper spray so like
[01:19:53] if someone's like burglarizing you and you turn on the light and they scatter you don't need the
[01:19:57] Pepper spray for that kind of situation you know Pepper spray is for someone who like whoa yeah but
[01:20:01] you don't know that they're gonna scatter yeah just like you don't know if they have a gun or not
[01:20:06] yes yeah yeah and if you're prowling around in someone's house you're going to be in a
[01:20:12] serious situation yeah I think you should be yeah you're going to be in real bad situation yeah so
[01:20:18] that's what rules are and rules of engagement so going back we're trying to bring this back rules
[01:20:23] of engagement that's exactly that's exactly why rules of engagement can be tricky but they shouldn't
[01:20:28] be if you train your people well if the people understand what the strategic mission if they
[01:20:33] understand what the parameters you put the parameters in there and they're loosening off that people
[01:20:36] can maneuver inside those parameters then occasionally they got to call you up and say hey I
[01:20:42] had to break the rules and you say oh what happened and they explained it to you go okay good call yeah
[01:20:46] yeah people need to understand that continuing on urban combat is nearly always conducted at
[01:20:57] very close quarters it is not uncommon to have opposing forces fighting from positions a few
[01:21:01] dozen meters apart most of the fighting is done from a distance between 50 and 500 meters due to this
[01:21:07] close in nature it is critical to know where the enemy is and how they are deployed again this is a
[01:21:13] fantasy like knowing where the enemy is and how they're deployed is really hard to do even when
[01:21:19] you have even when you have overhead coverage looking in the city I'll tell you an example I was
[01:21:26] watching my guys out on a mission I was watching on a UAV feed so we're watching we're watching
[01:21:35] and looking for enemy and all of a sudden we see weird activities of vehicle the vehicle stops
[01:21:41] the vehicle kind of moves a little bit stops again guys get out they look around open up the trunk
[01:21:48] and now we're totally focused like oh these guys are getting ready to attack open up the trunk
[01:21:53] and as they're starting to pull stuff out of the trunk my guys get hit from a different spot
[01:21:57] that we weren't looking because you can't see everything especially in a city because think of it
[01:22:01] with buildings as soon as you go off angle a little bit you can't see the street anymore because it's
[01:22:07] down in the building so we actually are totally focused on this one thing and maneuvering the
[01:22:13] the air asset to look at these people in a car and as as they're as we're monitoring these
[01:22:20] guys these suspected enemy personnel I'll send my guys get shot at from somewhere else and we
[01:22:25] completely miss it and we continue to watch these guys and they pull out a jack and a tire and they
[01:22:33] lift up the car and they change the tire and they leave but like you just normal but it looked
[01:22:38] very suspect so to think that you're ever gonna know where the enemy is and how they're
[01:22:43] deployed is very very challenging at best you do the best it doesn't mean you don't try
[01:22:47] you definitely try but you you don't get all that information you just don't get it
[01:22:51] hey those UAVs how high are those depends on the UAV so like can they see them like can
[01:22:59] people see them or are they just depends on the UAV and like I don't know what the classification
[01:23:04] of all that stuff is so I'm not talking about it good I don't know what the I just know that
[01:23:08] they go a different heights I'll leave it at that yeah well because on the internet you can see
[01:23:12] those you know those videos every once in a while they feel just have them yeah then it's like
[01:23:16] dang those guys don't even see that or you know I don't know if they do or don't go to optics too
[01:23:22] like real good optics I mean just imagine you know the optics that we have in the civilian sector
[01:23:26] yeah even those are good enough to be pretty amazing yeah so
[01:23:33] talk about knowing where the enemy is this lesson was learned a hard way during the initial
[01:23:36] stages of the battle inside the Citadel during the first two major clashes between
[01:23:40] marine and NVA forces on the morning of 13 February 1968 the enemy surprised us and
[01:23:45] reaped significant damages very quickly this is because we weren't exactly sure where they were
[01:23:51] although the the arvine which the south-eutomy's army had been in several major battles inside the
[01:23:58] Citadel I don't recall receiving any intelligence attributed to them regarding the enemy's
[01:24:04] exact location further to my knowledge no marine recon unit was sent to check out the situation
[01:24:09] before attacking on the morning of the 13th so that's rough and I'll tell you one thing that
[01:24:16] from my mind where's the enemy the enemy's everywhere that you have to approach things as if the enemy
[01:24:21] can be anywhere and the only way you can know that they're not where they're not everywhere is when you
[01:24:26] take something down and you secure it that's when you're not there then you move on we recommend that
[01:24:32] all intelligence assets recon units and surveillance devices that can be made available are deployed
[01:24:37] in a significant effort to fix the exact location of enemy soldiers and units again this is
[01:24:42] you can see where this is coming out of this for these guys they must have been completely outflanked all the
[01:24:48] time where they were thinking where is the enemy we need to know where the enemy is and it's a really
[01:24:53] hard to know that the enemy can bat who knows where his enemy is hiding experiences this
[01:24:59] experiences a decided advantage in surprise and the deployment of firepower of course
[01:25:06] now again this doesn't like I'm saying it's hard to have definitely doesn't mean you
[01:25:10] mitigate it doesn't mean you don't put up UAV so you can see maneuver doesn't mean you don't
[01:25:14] gather intelligence doesn't mean people shouldn't report back and and explain where they
[01:25:17] think the enemy is so we at least have an estimate hmm continuing the combat urban combat tactics
[01:25:25] the tragedy of urban conflict is that the battlefield for each firefight is a neighborhood each objective
[01:25:31] taken is someone's home or a school or church or some other structure that has value and
[01:25:36] more or less significant meaning to its inhabitants considering the possibilities it is not difficult
[01:25:42] to imagine tank battles across mall parking lots mortar fire hitting a church a hospital
[01:25:48] community center heavy small arms fire fights between homes and artillery barrage on a school yard
[01:25:54] while these images may be grist for the mills of Hollywood when we think about them in relevance to
[01:26:01] our homes and our neighborhood schools and churches the tragedy is somehow increased however
[01:26:08] it is our collective belief that the life of one marine is more precious than 10 100 homes
[01:26:15] schools churches shrines shopping malls or any other building known demand
[01:26:23] therefore all efforts should be made using any and all weaponry available to stun the enemy and
[01:26:28] support marine advances through the use of supporting arms and without regard to damage to buildings
[01:26:37] so clearly the whole idea that this started off with of the rules and engagement that we're
[01:26:43] restricting heavy firepower because the historical nature of the city a if you don't want
[01:26:48] historical buildings destroyed don't have a war and if you think we should save a building
[01:26:58] and that's gonna cost the life of one of our brothers not happening continuing at the same time
[01:27:06] the use of heavy weaponry and urban combat is an assuredly two-edged sword as our many assets in
[01:27:12] modern warfare rubble can be nearly as effective as a building for protecting enemy firing positions
[01:27:20] further artillery and other flat trajectory weapons may be somewhat restricted by the
[01:27:24] height of buildings and their distance from each other in many cases mortars although smaller
[01:27:29] in caliber were superior because of their higher trajectory so interestingly indirect fire
[01:27:39] indirect fire taking the indirect approach is often better than the flat trajectory
[01:27:45] I'm gonna shoot through your front door no we're gonna lob in some rounds on you so so we think about
[01:27:50] that when we're dealing with people punching them in the face is not as good as coming from an
[01:27:55] indirect position where they don't quite see where it's coming from but it still gives them a little
[01:28:00] crack and it's even to the point where he says the even though they're smaller in caliber so even though
[01:28:08] somebody does something that you want to straighten them out on when you hear them in the face
[01:28:13] we know what the reaction is they get defensive all that things when we come from from a flank
[01:28:18] or indirect fire it's smaller caliber not even as it's doesn't hate as hard but it's more effective
[01:28:24] yeah just more effective in the rectifier all day long continuing supporting arms supporting arms
[01:28:33] the most effective our most effective prior to danger close to minimize the potential of
[01:28:36] friendly casualties and maximize preparatory fires to support the infantry's attack during
[01:28:42] operation way city the most effective indirect fire during danger close was from an
[01:28:46] eight inch gun we recommend that the supporting access of fire be perpendicular as well as parallel
[01:28:51] finally in the event as in the case of operation way city that due to political considerations
[01:28:56] that proper preparatory fires would not be allowed that a variety of artillery fires such a
[01:29:02] smoke delayed fuses high angle can be incorporated with the infantry's attack combined arms
[01:29:07] training for urban combat as critical it's covered move that's what supporting arms
[01:29:16] do they lay down cover so you can maneuver it other advantage of preparatory firing
[01:29:21] include the destruction over the camouflage of enemy positions the psychological shock factor
[01:29:26] against enemy troops and the fact that heavy weapons can create new avenues of attack and
[01:29:30] egress for armored vehicles pretty straightforward one of the most effective aspects of
[01:29:38] supporting arms during the battle of way were the killer teams that evolved the M48 tank and the
[01:29:45] antos and the antos is like a it's it's actually a pretty crazy looking machine it's got
[01:29:51] 160 16 millimeter like cannons on it and it's got six of them and they're kind of like sticky now
[01:29:58] and it's a light armored vehicle it's like a tank anti tank vehicle but um
[01:30:03] antos were pair up and maneuver together as a team this would allow either the tank or the
[01:30:07] antos to maneuver into a good fire position where while the other covered cover move.
[01:30:14] Thank you further the devastating fire power put out by the 90 millimeter tank cannon and the
[01:30:20] six one oh six is of the antos turned out to be extremely beneficial because their capabilities
[01:30:24] to deliver pinpoint fire power armored vehicles can provide many benefits to the infantry
[01:30:30] engaged in urban combat as they provide some cover from enemy small arms fire however armored vehicles
[01:30:38] can also become rocket magnets producing casualties for infantry troops in close proximity.
[01:30:43] The enemy's gonna see that target and they're gonna like it.
[01:30:50] Yeah and there's advantages to having that power but there's also disadvantages so you have to
[01:30:55] always weigh those things out as a leader you have to pay attention to those things.
[01:30:59] As a leader you have to think of every advantage that you have there's gonna be some
[01:31:03] negative to it there's gonna be some disadvantage when you bring an advantage to table there's
[01:31:07] gonna be some disadvantage. And you get to right if you're gonna be super flexible you're not that strong.
[01:31:12] Yeah if you're gonna be super strong you're not that flexible. Your cardio doesn't last very long.
[01:31:16] Right so there's gonna be advantages and disadvantages that come with each asset that you have.
[01:31:22] So you have to think you're gonna go for full ox that's cool you're giving up position.
[01:31:26] There's all kinds of things you have to weigh those out and as a leader you have to look at.
[01:31:30] Don't get wrapped around the positives of something.
[01:31:32] Great just the positives. There's not just positives for for really anything.
[01:31:37] Yeah there's nothing that's just straight positives across the board. I guess right?
[01:31:43] I'm sure we could think of something. Yeah and I'm sure you could.
[01:31:50] Continue other than instances of harassment and introduction fires buildings that are hit by heavy weapons
[01:31:55] should be attacked immediately. This is good. Buildings that are hit by heavy weapons should be attacked immediately.
[01:32:01] Don't hesitate. You catch people off guard don't hesitate. Don't hesitate. This happens
[01:32:07] this happens in everything. We get a good position or something and advantage just happens and we
[01:32:13] hesitate instead of taking advantage of the advantage. We go, oh god of here. Yeah.
[01:32:18] And then then we let it go. It happens in business too. We get to a situation.
[01:32:23] Oh we finally get the we finally get our competitor to make a mistake.
[01:32:29] Or we get an advantage position and we celebrate instead of just finishing the job. Yeah. Which is a big bad thing to do.
[01:32:41] Remember that when calling and fire missions you can request splash so you're friendly
[01:32:45] troops have time to take cover immediately prior to impact. These guys were calling bombs right
[01:32:49] on top of a lot. In daytime operations the use of covering smoke is often helpful when
[01:32:55] Marines pass the attack across open areas. As was learned during Operation Ways City even with
[01:33:03] proper support of heavy weapons which was ultimately provided to the Marines we faced hard
[01:33:08] core north for Vietnamese army troops who fought from prepared positions and moved to secondary
[01:33:13] positions fought again and finally very reluctantly died. In the capture of each room, each floor,
[01:33:20] each rooftop each building each street. It was ultimately the Marine riflemen who won the battle.
[01:33:31] It's as a leader. As a leader, do you always have to remember that line right there?
[01:33:39] In the capture of each room each floor, each rooftop each building each street. It was
[01:33:43] ultimately the Marine riflemen who won the battle. As a leader, if you think that all you need to
[01:33:52] do is make a good decision and then you're going to win your wrong. The folks on the front line
[01:33:58] have to truly understand what is happening and there are the ones that are going to carry the day.
[01:34:05] And you could come up with a best battle plan ever. You could come up with a best strategic business
[01:34:09] plan ever and if you don't have folks that are engaged and willing and are going to take the
[01:34:14] fight to the enemy and are going to win that foothold. They're going to enter that room.
[01:34:21] They're going to go out and sell into whatever industry you're trying to get into.
[01:34:25] If you don't have people that you trust that are trained that are ready that are prepared,
[01:34:31] if you don't have them, best battle plan in the world isn't going to work. It's critical for
[01:34:40] infantry units. No both the capabilities as well as the limitations of supporting arms.
[01:34:47] Know your limitations. This is again, there's positives and there's negatives.
[01:34:54] Another aspect of supporting arms, limitations has to do with helicopter support.
[01:34:58] Urban terrain is not very forgiving to helicopters that may be forced to make an emergency landing.
[01:35:03] Helicopter pilots might be reluctant to fly over urban terrain.
[01:35:09] Know these things.
[01:35:12] One very tragic aspect of using supporting arms in urban combat is that the likelihood of civilian
[01:35:18] casualties is very high. In at least two situations that we are aware of, the NVA used civilians as
[01:35:25] screens for their infantry troops and fire missions were of necessity called in on those positions.
[01:35:35] So, no, expect, pre-discuss these things, let your troops understand, put them in role
[01:35:48] place in areas where they have to make a decision on what's happening. It's better to think through it 20 times
[01:35:54] and make 20 mistakes while we're doing some kind of a role-play scenario.
[01:36:00] Then it is to have to make that decision for the first time. When you're on the battlefield
[01:36:04] you can't discuss. You can't debrief.
[01:36:07] Yeah. Not to mention the stress that's going to kind of. Yeah, absolutely.
[01:36:12] Use of chemical weapons during one five's battle inside the Citadel fortress which was kicked off
[01:36:19] on 13 February 1968. The battalion progressed at total of four blocks along our avenue of attack
[01:36:25] and head secured at total of 16 city blocks within our assigned area of operations after nearly
[01:36:30] two weeks of heavy street fighting and after suffering nearly 50% casualties at the hands of a
[01:36:35] well-prepared determined force of NVA soldiers, a force that finally estimated that was finally
[01:36:41] estimated to be nearly 11,000 strong in the waste in the waste city area of operations.
[01:36:47] On February 25, 1968, Marines from Charlie Company shot off three E8 gas launchers,
[01:36:55] caring about 40 CS gas grenades toward the enemy's last known position. The next morning,
[01:37:00] one five took control of the remaining 12 city blocks in about three hours without a single
[01:37:05] casualty because the NVA was not equipped to deal with teargrass attack and was forced to withdraw.
[01:37:13] So we're going from 50% casualties to zero.
[01:37:21] Taking a different approach, utilizing weapons that no one was used to utilizing.
[01:37:28] The enemy who had never had not seen, they even have gas masks. They just had to get out of there
[01:37:32] and that E8 gas launcher, it's like a suitcase looking thing and it's got eight tubes that have
[01:37:40] eight rounds at each and them and it fires them like five seconds apart. So we're talking a lot of gas.
[01:37:47] Especially they shot off three of them. You don't want none of that.
[01:37:55] No one can ever be certain that the use of chemical weapons would have made a difference in the
[01:37:58] initial stages of the battle, but many of the veterans of that battle have often wondered what
[01:38:04] might have happened if the E8s had been deployed in the early stages of the battle. We recommend
[01:38:08] the judicious use of chemical weapons such as tear gases, etc. for combat operations.
[01:38:15] A administration planning and preparation, the inherent complexities of urban combat are such
[01:38:20] that special attention needs to be paid toward planning and preparations, training, training,
[01:38:25] practice makes perfect. A coordinated marine attack on an enemy held position in an
[01:38:33] town or city can be equated to an intricate opera or Broadway production, although the stakes are a bit higher.
[01:38:42] Entry techniques, room search and clearing techniques, voice commands indicating movement or
[01:38:46] progress, fire discipline, the use of grenades, rocket supporting fires, communications,
[01:38:51] all of these must be rehearsed and improved until they are second nature.
[01:39:01] Second nature. I was talking to you the other day. You were saying something about
[01:39:08] my guillotine choke that it was there quickly. Yes. Yeah. And I was saying it's second. It's I should
[01:39:18] have said it's second nature because what I did tell you is sometimes I become aware like we'll be
[01:39:25] rolling and all of a sudden I'll be like, oh I've got a guillotine right now. Yeah. I didn't even
[01:39:29] this way just showed up there with zero fought whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. That's how you need to be.
[01:39:37] If I have to think about putting a guillotine on someone, then that means they have time to think about
[01:39:42] defending. Right. If I didn't even think about it, it just happened. Just sort of. Yeah. And
[01:39:47] didn't. Not to split hairs. It's less about the guillotine specifically. It's just about your
[01:39:52] like what do you call a head control. You know, you know, you get that chin strap. Oh yeah. It's that
[01:39:56] where that just arrives. And then sure it'll become a guillotine for sure. Or a cobra or one of these
[01:40:02] other treacherous moves. Good. You like the implement from time to time. Yeah. But yeah. It's like
[01:40:08] your head. Well, I feel like I feel like it's second nature from my head to just land in there.
[01:40:14] That's what it feels like for sure. But obviously it's your thing. Oh no. But that's the way we want to
[01:40:20] train. That's the way we want to train. And I would say I'll add to this that what we want to train
[01:40:28] is we want to train for chaos. We want to train from mayhem. We want to train for the enemy to do
[01:40:32] things. We're not expecting. That's the way we want to train for. Because when you train for things
[01:40:35] that the enemy is not expecting the enemy do, you actually get good at reacting to it. You know,
[01:40:41] you can get good at scrambling. Yeah. Injutsu. Yeah. You can get good at ending up in positions that are
[01:40:49] beneficial. If you know, conscious thought. But because you've scrambled enough that now you just
[01:40:54] know what you're looking for. These little things are going to happen. I'm going to get the underhook.
[01:40:57] I'm going to get my hips in the right spot. I'm going to move my head over here. That's what we want to
[01:41:01] do. Yeah. Like the almost cliche saying to get comfortable being uncomfortable. So kind of thing,
[01:41:09] you know, it's like, yeah, you train yourself to be uncomfortable or to be trained in being uncomfortable.
[01:41:14] You can just deal better. But I'm trying to get something. I'm trying to reach a different point here.
[01:41:18] My point is this. If I let's say, let's say, here's, there's a through Z situations I can put you
[01:41:30] in. And they're all different. If I train you for A and B all the time, when I throw
[01:41:36] F at you, you're lost. If I throw Q at you, you're lost. If I train you, so I get you good at A and B.
[01:41:48] But then I start training you at DS or thrown you at F. I start throwing you at M. You will start to
[01:41:54] realize that even in these disparate scenarios, there are some commonalities. And there are some
[01:42:02] base positions that you can go to that will allow you the time to assess and make decisions.
[01:42:09] All right. So you can, you can get good at chaos. That's what I'm saying. You can get good at chaos.
[01:42:21] You can get good at it. You can say, oh, when I see things happening that I don't understand,
[01:42:27] here's what I need to do. I need to find a good covered position, hopefully elevated where I can
[01:42:33] look around. I need to figure out where my troops are. I need to do it very quickly. I need to
[01:42:40] identify a prominent terrain feature that I can move all of us to in a rapid manner so that I can
[01:42:48] get controlled situation right there. Now with those things that I just said, hey, I'm going to
[01:42:54] get into position where I can look around. I'm going to try and figure out where my people are.
[01:42:58] I'm going to look for a prominent terrain feature that I can utilize as a stronghold. Guess what I just
[01:43:03] solved for just about any scenario that unfolds that I don't understand. I have a plan. I have a plan
[01:43:10] that I can actually implement against any situation. Think about that. So, oh, if I get a contact
[01:43:18] front, I have a plan. Oh, we start getting a shot up from the front and we're in an open ground
[01:43:24] I have a plan. It's a standard operating procedure. Oh, I start getting shot up from the front and
[01:43:30] we're in close terrain. I have a plan. There's a specific immediate action drill we're going to
[01:43:35] perform. Oh, wait a second. I'm getting shot at. I'm not sure where it is. I hear screaming. I know
[01:43:42] that we're getting hit from multiple locations. What do I need to do? I have an immediate action for
[01:43:47] that too. I'm going to find cover. I'm going to look around. I'm going to try and figure out where
[01:43:51] my troops are and I'm going to look for a prominent terrain feature that we can move towards.
[01:43:56] Yeah. There. Now the sun, the chaos isn't really chaos. Right. Now the sun, I have a plan.
[01:44:03] Yeah, it's a kind of a kind of chaos. And I can actually apply that plan to almost any scenario.
[01:44:09] So, the more that you train people for things that they don't expect and don't understand,
[01:44:14] the better they will get it dealing with those things. Yeah. And that's very positive. Yeah.
[01:44:22] Moving on. Further, all plans must be communicated and rehearsed at each level of command
[01:44:32] from the fire team to the company and above. It sounds like these guys did not have good decentralized
[01:44:38] command in terms of actually knowing what the overall plan was because it sounds like the fire teams were
[01:44:43] there, even the putty and the fire team levels were a little bit lost at points. In particular,
[01:44:49] putty and commanders, putty and sergeants and squad leaders and fire team leaders must be aware
[01:44:53] of each man's assignment. This should include who goes into a structure first, who covers.
[01:44:59] Cover move. Nowadays, because we've done in the US military, we've done so much urban combat
[01:45:07] in the last, what has it been 17 years? Every military unit in the US military, they
[01:45:16] can take down a structure and they do it well. And they do it off of standard operating procedures,
[01:45:22] not off of a specific plan of who goes where. Continue on hand in arm signals as well as
[01:45:29] vote commands should be established and practiced. And the last section is called command and
[01:45:39] control. In full-scale urban conflict, especially in situations where enemy dispositions are not
[01:45:47] well known, initial contact with the enemy can be a unexpected b at very close range and see
[01:45:54] massively devastating. Command and control, the basic Marines connection to his leadership can
[01:46:01] disappear in the blink of an eye. During Operation Wacety, Charlie won five lost all of its officers
[01:46:09] except for two. Sergeant's became platoon commanders, PFCs were squad leaders.
[01:46:17] In urban combat, it would not be at all surprising to find PFCs as platoon commanders, given the
[01:46:22] potentially high casualty rates. The critical factor for unit survival in these situations is that
[01:46:28] units ability to immediately determine the enemy's position and to return a high volume of sustained
[01:46:35] fire on those positions, allowing maneuverability despite the situation with the chain of command.
[01:46:42] Two, critical things there. Covenant move is one and decentralized command is two.
[01:46:47] That's what they're talking about. You need to be able to put down high, heavy volume of sustained
[01:46:54] fire on positions so that you can maneuver. And at the same time, you need to be able to do that
[01:46:59] regardless of the situation with the chain of command, decentralized command. During the first day
[01:47:08] of one-fives involvement in Operation Wacety, Alpha Company lost its CO, its Exo, and much of the company
[01:47:16] CP Group. Of necessity, Alpha was pulled back to the battalion rear-freer reorganization.
[01:47:22] We'll also have a few leaders effectively eliminated an entire company. This also delayed the
[01:47:28] battalion's attack, blunting our initiatives. You gotta have a plan if people go down,
[01:47:35] who's taken over. That's gotta be, that's gotta be ready.
[01:47:38] The individual marine who is under heavy enemy fire from very close range, who may now be
[01:47:48] cut off from his team and or squad leader needs to have been thoroughly informed of communications
[01:47:53] codes, lines of departures, lines of stoppage, friendly unit dispositions, and the ability to
[01:47:58] call and supporting fires in conduct, contingency plans. What does that mean? That means the
[01:48:04] troops need to understand what is happening. In short, in urban conflict situations, command and
[01:48:13] control needs to be understood at every level down to the basic marine. Based on our experiences
[01:48:21] during Operation Wacety, expect the unexpected, expect chaos and plan for all possibilities,
[01:48:30] and it signed Scott Nelson 1st Lieutenant Commanding Officer Charlie 1-5, Nick War 2nd Lieutenant
[01:48:38] Platoon Commander Charlie 1-5, Travis Curd 2nd Lieutenant artillery forwarders,
[01:48:45] Irver attached to Charlie 1-5 and John Mullen Staff Sergeant, Platoon Sergeant,
[01:48:50] Charlie 1-5, Nick War 2nd Lieutenant Commanding Officer Charlie 1-5, Nick War 2nd Lieutenant Commanding Officer
[01:49:00] Police Stoke to be born with that. This document, which is now
[01:49:20] well it's 50 years old, 1968, and there's still less as learned in this that applied to
[01:49:32] really apply to everything. Apply to life, apply to urban combat, apply to business,
[01:49:38] apply to leadership. So, there you have it, and of course, when we see the way,
[01:49:46] broadly, we can recognize it more, we can see it in more things, and it makes us more effective
[01:49:55] leaders regardless of the battlefield that we're on. So, read, and appreciate the lessons of the past,
[01:50:04] and echo, speaking of the way. I know, I know, due to it's sort of beneficial, sort of helpful
[01:50:16] in allowing us to understand the way more clearly and perhaps even more broadly. I don't know
[01:50:22] if you have any recommendations of how we can sort of get in the game. Yeah, and staying in the game.
[01:50:27] Yeah, it's fun. You mentioned G2 is like a way to recognize things. Like it's so,
[01:50:36] it's such a metaphor, even teaser word metaphor seems like it's like detail. It's like it is life
[01:50:42] in so many ways. Like all even this thing that I'm listening to. Yeah. Read. I'm like, oh yeah,
[01:50:47] I do just, every single one, I just don't want to bore everyone with okay, more G2 stuff.
[01:50:52] Like I said, great to set up that on the judo podcast that we did. I was talking about the fact
[01:50:57] that I have to give credit some credit to G2 for sort of revealing to me the thread that
[01:51:06] tied all these things together as JP was in town. Sure. And we were rolling G2 yesterday. And I was
[01:51:13] thinking as like, actually when we were done, I was thinking, man, when we were in Ramadi
[01:51:20] 12 years ago, I was a black belt in G2. Like it was beneficial for me then to a
[01:51:29] been a black belt in G2, not because I wasn't going out and grappling against the enemy.
[01:51:35] But I had already started to connect some of these dots. And it's very, very helpful in life.
[01:51:44] Yeah. It's also helpful because it is a physical representation that you can feel and you can see.
[01:51:59] It's not a theory. Yeah. There's theory behind it. But it's not a theory. It's happening to you.
[01:52:05] And therefore when it happens to you, you have something physical, something concrete,
[01:52:08] something that you actually experienced on a physical level. And if you, and that allows you to
[01:52:14] understand it metaphorically better. Yeah. Like when you get caught when someone's trying to choke
[01:52:24] you and then pull them down and walk you and you just got flanked. That just happened to you.
[01:52:28] It's not metaphorical. You truly understand what it feels like to get flanked. If I explain to you,
[01:52:37] hey, when I'm telling you this thing over here and then I come out you from another angle,
[01:52:40] you understand it. You're just starting to grasp the concept. But it didn't happen to you.
[01:52:48] But when I'm trying to choke you and you go for the defense and then boom, you get our
[01:52:52] mocked and you didn't see it coming at all, you feel a flank, you feel the effectiveness of
[01:52:58] it in real time. In real time. Yeah. And that's why it's very beneficial to train some of that
[01:53:05] you too. Oh yeah. Feel experience. Yeah. The laws of combat. Mm-hmm. Feel them. Yeah.
[01:53:13] You'll have a better comprehension of them. Yeah. And that sounds like a profound level to like that's
[01:53:20] like a that's good if you can keep that in mind. And then you can go on the other side of the
[01:53:26] spectrum where it's like, see you just fighting with your friends with no consequence. You know,
[01:53:32] where I think a lot of the time. What does that mean? Like if mean if you go, hey, let's go
[01:53:37] train right now. What we're going to do when you say let's go train, sure we might go over some
[01:53:41] oh, oh, we're fighting but without real consequences. We don't lose friendship, we don't get injured,
[01:53:46] we don't get you know, wrestle that stuff. But we get to like fight, you know, I don't that's also good.
[01:53:53] Yeah. So in here's the thing like there's other thing like some people in I think we most people
[01:54:00] like we like fighting but we don't want to like fight people. Like I don't want to fight everyone,
[01:54:08] you know? Well because then you can get arrested. Well, sir most people like I said,
[01:54:15] we don't want to just fight you know because there's all kinds of different reasons or whatever.
[01:54:19] But when you can just when you have the opportunity to to fight someone with no consequence,
[01:54:26] just to see how it would go. You know like if you you know these huge, huge men, you know
[01:54:32] guys who are like seven feet tall four and you're probably just huge and strong men and stuff like that.
[01:54:37] You don't want to necessarily fight them but you're like, I wonder how that would be like
[01:54:41] roll with to fight with that guy. You know, when you do your Jitsu you get that. You get that opportunity
[01:54:47] straight up. You want to try to fight this. I wonder how many people out there wondering,
[01:54:51] I want to be a fight juggle. I just say I would beat them up not to say I wouldn't, but I
[01:54:55] wonder how it would be that it's a lot of people show up at the gym and that's exactly why.
[01:55:01] That's the point. If anything is it doesn't matter if their white belts are black belts.
[01:55:05] Yeah, they still like, they can't ever want to see how that experiences you know.
[01:55:10] They usually smile. Yeah, fully and really when it comes down to it, I mean unless you're
[01:55:15] trying to hurt someone you know and there's a bunch of different ways to hurt someone if you want
[01:55:18] to hurt them because you don't like them or you think they should you know they deserve it or all this
[01:55:22] stuff. It's not about that. It can be about that for sure, but that's not ultimately what it is.
[01:55:27] It's more about like I wonder I wonder how it beat a fight that person. And then when you start to
[01:55:34] learn more and more and more you just you really just enjoy that activity like quite get to fight. Like
[01:55:39] right now if I wanted to, if you had the time or whatever, mean you we could go we could go fight
[01:55:43] right now. Yeah. And it'd be like in a good safe way. You know, it's wrapped this up then.
[01:55:48] That's the way to do it. Anyway, okay. All right, back to the path. That's the path in
[01:55:57] appropriate part of the path by the way. Yeah. You wouldn't be you without you, just I would
[01:56:02] not be. You wouldn't even be like happy, especially if you knew I wouldn't be happy at all.
[01:56:08] Yeah, especially if I knew, but on top of that I wouldn't have connected things that I
[01:56:18] that you did so connected for me. Yeah, there's something else. I would not be who I am.
[01:56:28] I'm going to straight up say. Yes. I would not be who I am without you, just you. Yeah. And you
[01:56:33] wouldn't be who you would not be on this podcast without your tips. No. I couldn't even talk to you.
[01:56:38] I mean, believe me, it's a stretch anyway. It's a stretch anyway. But without your tips,
[01:56:43] you'll have to at least do something, right? Without that, if you talk about TV shows,
[01:56:47] I'd be like, well, yeah, I'd be like muting your microphone or something. Yeah, I mean, see,
[01:56:52] so did you? Hey, it's a life-saver. So you're insane. Yeah. You get you into all kind of different things.
[01:56:56] But yeah, you know, and even if you're trying to like, it's staying the path. Okay. I'm dragging it.
[01:57:03] I dig it, man. But it's important. When you're when you're trying to get on the path, stay on the path.
[01:57:08] Be, be on the path. It's only fitting. For real. It's only fitting. Okay. Let's say,
[01:57:14] okay, let's say you have weapons training. Sweet. Let's say you can drive a car really well.
[01:57:21] Cool. You can hunt. You can you're capable. You can, you know, all this stuff, right? But
[01:57:29] if you're stripped away of like your tools, oh, then what? You know, man on man. Yeah, just
[01:57:36] if you don't have the jujitsu. And this is, yeah, and this is more of just a real general, like,
[01:57:40] way to look at it. So it's like, you ever watch men in black? Yeah, I can't really remember to watch about it.
[01:57:48] This might not even be the movie, but it's a movie with one of the, it's like this big,
[01:57:53] rope creature, right? And then they find out it's just a suit and in the inside, there's just this
[01:57:57] little worm type person thing, you know, that kind of, you know. Oh, seriously, if I didn't
[01:58:03] knew jujitsu, I would just be like a little worm. Yeah, you would. Yeah, big. You know, strong
[01:58:09] guy or whatever. But then like, if all your tools were taken away, what do you left with kind of
[01:58:14] thing? Isn't it weird when you meet people that are that? Like, they're like big, yeah, maybe
[01:58:21] even they're strong, maybe even they are aggressive. Yeah. But they don't have, they don't have a skill.
[01:58:27] They don't have the skill. Right. That's kind of a bummer. That's essentially,
[01:58:30] now here's this, here's the situation that people might be listening and think, okay, well,
[01:58:34] let's say you're in the situation when you don't have the skill. You have two options.
[01:58:38] Option one is the easy path, which is I'm just never going to get that skill. I'm never going
[01:58:45] to go near jujitsu. I'm never going to get in a confrontation with anybody because I don't want
[01:58:48] to be proven to myself that I'm a worm inside of a suit. Or you can take the hard path, which is
[01:58:58] even though I'm 37 years old, I'm bummed that I missed out on the, you know, I took me a while,
[01:59:08] but you know what, I'm going to go figure this out. I'm going to go at least learn some of it.
[01:59:12] I'm going to at least learn some of it. I would take that. Oh, yeah. Even though I know it's hard,
[01:59:18] because people, you know, when you're, when you get older, you don't want to try something new.
[01:59:22] Right. Even though it's proven that learning something new is completely beneficial for your
[01:59:29] mental and physical health. Yeah. Yeah. And I, yeah, it's not all like pleasurable roses and stuff.
[01:59:40] Oh, no. There's some, there's some struggle in there. But tell me about it. There's, there's,
[01:59:46] there I had a minister. I was, I was in turtle position. Dean Lister is the shoulders healing
[01:59:52] back up. I was in turtle position mount and side control for 22 minutes the other day. And that's a
[01:59:59] struggle. And also he was pushing my face into the mat and saying what color is the mat.
[02:00:08] See, like, you see what I'm saying? Well, was that fun? The answer is no. No, that's high level struggle.
[02:00:14] Yeah. Because the typical person you're going to do, that's not going to happen to you. So that's,
[02:00:18] that's like the struggle. That's the last one. That's going to get some of that has a personal
[02:00:23] vendetta on your existence. Yeah. Dean has on mind. Yeah. I think it's a CD called Kill Jocko does indeed.
[02:00:30] Yeah. Factually nonetheless. All right. There's going to be some struggle in there. You get a
[02:00:33] but you jump in there. Just like everything when you learn golf, there's going to be a struggle. No.
[02:00:38] You're going to miss that whole sometimes. Right. No. Thanks for coming struggle. Yeah. But on a
[02:00:43] professional and fundamental level, it's all the same struggle right here. And then last, you're going to
[02:00:48] need to get you. And when you get your gear, you're going to go to originmate.com, get an origin
[02:00:52] gear. It's the best kind of made in America from the cotton grown in America, loomed or weave woven
[02:00:59] woven in America, assembled, sewn stitched, presented, enjoyed, utilized, utilized in America.
[02:01:09] I actually can be utilized wherever, but nonetheless, I mean in America, and they are factually
[02:01:13] no, not my opinion sounds like an opinion, but it's factually they're factually the best firm in the world.
[02:01:19] Yeah. What's cool is the guise are awesome, but there's a problem.
[02:01:27] What's the problem? The problem is you can't wear a ghee to the store.
[02:01:32] No. No. You can't wear a ghee to the restaurant. No, no, you're in it.
[02:01:36] And yet you wear the origin pants and you think, man, I wouldn't mind, you know, they had a pocket.
[02:01:41] I would roll out, right? Yeah. Especially if you get the black ones. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[02:01:44] You know, it's not, it's not crazy to think, hey, maybe I'll just kind of roll out to the store
[02:01:50] or maybe go take my wife out for dinner. No. Yeah. But that's okay. Because guess what we got now.
[02:01:58] Denom, origin jeans, dig it. Yeah. So those are common. Yeah, that's not quite out yet, but I got mine.
[02:02:05] Yeah, I don't have mine and you know it. I'm just texting Pete, right? I don't want to buy an
[02:02:11] ain't on pizza. He's busy, man. He does a lot. And I don't want to, I don't want to,
[02:02:15] my personal interest start to create roadblock or speed bumps in this whole thing.
[02:02:20] Don't. But I do want those jeans though. That's the thing. So I got a balance.
[02:02:24] It's the little dichotomy. My personal interest and the interest of Pete in his discourse.
[02:02:30] Unless I will have them, we will have them when do they come out then? Jocker in the process of coming out right now.
[02:02:36] Yeah. Yeah. The material. We are cutting the material. Now we're so in the material.
[02:02:42] Yeah, it's interesting because I don't really get excited about jeans or I don't get it like new jeans coming out.
[02:02:48] Or new iPhone car. I don't get excited about that kind of stuff, but for some reason I'm kind of excited about what I'm going to tell you
[02:02:54] why I'm a little bit excited about it. Because of this, jeans are American. Right? Jeans represent America.
[02:03:03] Let's face it. If you wanted to draw a stereotypical American human, they'd be wearing a pair of jeans.
[02:03:09] Yeah. Here's the problem. Jeans were made in America. Jeans were invented in America. Jeans became
[02:03:15] famous in America. And then we sold our soul and put them overseas. Let them get manufactured overseas.
[02:03:23] Something that shouldn't have happened. And so to bring it back to America, does that feel good? Indeed. Yes it does.
[02:03:31] Yeah, man. Makes sense. I dig it. So yeah. That's the soul. Other clothes or teachers and stuff
[02:03:39] more, and if you can get even if you don't want jeans, you can get joggers right now.
[02:03:44] Yeah, man. If you can't get me a great company. Supplements to Joint Warfare,
[02:03:48] Curoloyal Discipline, Discipline Go. Discipline Go. So when I work, sometimes I have to work for
[02:03:57] two three straight hours without any interruptions. Yeah. Yeah. You see what I'm saying.
[02:04:05] So I would be drinking discipline and all of a sudden I'm an hour and 40 minutes in and guess what?
[02:04:09] I got to hit the head. That's not a risk for you. So that's why we made Discipline Go.
[02:04:13] Discipline Go is just a pill. So it's called a capsule. Capsule. And it's got the, uh, it's got the
[02:04:20] goodness in it. And we also have coming the Discipline Go in a can. Yeah. Yeah, that's like a,
[02:04:27] if you had it yet. Yes. And that's, that's where you have the one where, like where was that?
[02:04:32] Did you, that gave you one in New York when we were in the New York. Yeah, I had one before that though.
[02:04:36] That's a couple. They sent me some. Yes. Good. I got more coming today.
[02:04:40] Hopefully it'll be here. But, um, yeah. So that'll be coming. Of course we got milk.
[02:04:48] Which apparently Dr. Luke hates mint chocolate chip passionately. Yeah. And it's a herd. I'm going off the
[02:04:54] other day. Like, why would you want anything that tastes like toothpaste? Mint just toothpaste. Yeah.
[02:04:59] So we have a little disagreement. We'll have to settle on on the map. But he's just going with
[02:05:02] peanut butter vanilla girl or something. And that's good. And don't forget about the warrior kid
[02:05:08] milk. No kidding. Yeah. It tastes like strawberry. Nestle's strawberry quick. That's what it tastes like.
[02:05:16] Yeah. Can I say that? Is that legal? Yes. Okay. Whether it's legal or not. I can say it. I did
[02:05:21] say it. And it's tastes exactly like, and I'm using that. Exactly like strawberry Nestle's quick.
[02:05:28] But it has no sugar. It's got awesome protein. And it will make your kid into the next
[02:05:35] year. But this is something illegal right now. The next square away after. No, there you go.
[02:05:44] Smart. Yes. That's what the name names. You can do it. But so that's a word of
[02:05:50] main. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good. Yeah. That's a good. All my people, all my people up at
[02:05:54] origin that are working. Every day, someone, cotton, stitching, moving, shipping and making pretty much
[02:06:02] getting after it. Yeah. Big time. Also, we have a store called Jocco store. You know, stuff,
[02:06:08] a little bit more formulated for representing the path itself. You know, a little bit skewed.
[02:06:13] But some good stuff on there. Some new stuff on there too. By the way. Oh, really? Yeah. They,
[02:06:18] the trailer travel mug. Okay. Kind of new. Good. I'm putting a hoodie up there. The black
[02:06:24] on black. Hmm. I like that. It's subtle. Heavy. Okay. Oh, heavy. Yes. Is it legit heavy? Legit heavy.
[02:06:32] Legit like it's the head. Is it a heavy? Yes. Heavy is one. An existence. I'm sorry to say no. But
[02:06:37] there has one that you've ever made. Yes. Okay. It's it's. I want to do this to be heavier to
[02:06:43] run the original. Yeah. It's black on black. All right. You got it. Two of them. No,
[02:06:48] less good stuff on their rash cards on there too. For you, Jitsu. For you, Jitsu. Representing the path
[02:06:53] big time on now and also you can do other stuff with rash cards as well. But, um, yeah. Some good stuff
[02:07:00] on there. If you want to represent support, stand the path. That's where you go jockels door.com. Here's
[02:07:07] the thing about getting new stuff to and this is this is where this is where six year old echo
[02:07:12] brain comes out. Yeah. And there's a straight up. But it's still a place. It's still a pilot. If
[02:07:16] this dawns on me from time to time, especially when it hits me, when you get like a new
[02:07:21] thing, right? I've talked about this for when you get a new rash. You are six years old.
[02:07:24] Brow. You don't even act. You laugh. You know what I think? I think you think the same thing.
[02:07:28] I think you feel the same way. You won't necessarily admit it, especially not to me. But I think
[02:07:33] I think you feel the same way. Okay. If you got a new thing, you think of something that that
[02:07:38] excites me to get new. Oh, you keep doing what you're doing. I'll think of something over here.
[02:07:43] We'll think surfboard, think whatever. And then less there you go. So if you get a new rash card, a new
[02:07:48] ghee, even new socks sometimes. New shoe. I've gotten new socks. It's like 1843. I got
[02:07:57] guy. I get the socks from on it. I get fired up. Nonetheless, you get something new. Get a rash
[02:08:01] card. This is good after it. If you don't have one already, you will be looking for a
[02:08:06] going to do you do that much more. And that's the good thing about like these things that
[02:08:11] it never excites. It's 100% correct. Try it. Actually, I would say for anyone who has like,
[02:08:21] you know, sure to whatever they felt it. Oh, that's what I, that's how I predict. No, I, I, I
[02:08:26] understand what you're saying. And it actually is true when people, when you get that, you know,
[02:08:33] that's the classic, the classic scene from literature. Sure. Where is the, I think it's like the
[02:08:41] dawning of the uniform of the warrior. Yeah. And they do in movies too, the collage. They know
[02:08:46] the heroes put in his put on and then he's put his web gear on. And even just when people see,
[02:08:52] you know, the superheroes secret thing opens up and all this gears. Oh, yeah.
[02:08:57] Tell us all fire. Yes. Like the, the old that that's going to that chest in his or like in,
[02:09:06] in Mike in the dragons, you know when he's open opening up the chest and filled with war gear.
[02:09:11] Yeah. You know, I ruined that little fire. That's why I understand. Exactly. There we go.
[02:09:17] Same deal. Anyway, jockelstore.com. You want to represent on the path. Get fired up about
[02:09:23] stuff. There you go. See something like grab something. Also, jockel wake tea. We're still doing that.
[02:09:32] I'm still doing that big time because I was never a tea person. I mean, I'm saying that's that's
[02:09:36] saying something because I was never a tea person. But guess what? Look at me, tea person. Oh,
[02:09:41] kind of I only drink this tea, but you know, I'm into it. You're a jockel white tea person.
[02:09:45] A big time. How's that deadlift? Huge. 800 pounds actually. You know, I've been sticking
[02:09:51] with it. Hey, subscribe to the podcast if you haven't iTunes Google Play Stitcher,
[02:09:56] it'll leave reviews so I can read them. Yeah, if you want, if you don't want, then don't
[02:10:01] what? Also, where are you, kid podcast? Subscribe to that. I was on a podcast yesterday and they asked
[02:10:08] me to say subscribe to their podcast. Yeah. And I said, I don't even ask people to subscribe to my podcast.
[02:10:14] And I was like, well, actually, I got to say you know, and now I just did. Yeah. Maybe it's,
[02:10:19] you know, yeah, I actually, you and I had this discussion many times. I was like, why do we need to
[02:10:23] do you? You're like, well, people need to subscribe. Maybe they haven't subscribed. I mean, we're
[02:10:27] 162 podcasts deep. That's got to be four, 500 hours of listening. You don't think someone hit
[02:10:35] subscribe yet. Well, I agree with you, Philly. So, we can we cut this out now? We, yeah, you wrote this
[02:10:41] by the way. But yeah, of course we can. Well, this is a carryover. Yeah, carryover. Oh, yeah,
[02:10:49] look, it's us doing what we talked about before earlier today about doing things like,
[02:10:55] because that's just how, you know, we got to think. Got to think. Why do we want to waste
[02:11:00] five seconds of someone's time telling him? You know, it just sounds kind of like, what is it? Like,
[02:11:05] what? Like, what? Like, what? It's redundant. There's nothing. It's kind of like, um, you think
[02:11:08] everyone, do you think anyone ever got to this point three hours deep into the podcast and you were
[02:11:14] I said and subscribe and they reach down to their like, they're just all my stuff. Yeah, oh, shoot.
[02:11:20] I can do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[02:11:23] let me tell you what you might forget. You might forget to subscribe with a warrior,
[02:11:26] kid podcast because it's not coming out quite as consistently at this time. But it is
[02:11:32] a great podcast for you or for your kids to listen to to get them on the path. Yeah.
[02:11:38] They can also, if you have kids, that's a good one. Oh, if you have kids, it's definitely a good one.
[02:11:42] If you don't have kids, it's not a bad one. Yeah, you can learn some real fundamental.
[02:11:47] Those are lessons that you kind of forget to, you know, that's what I think.
[02:11:53] Also, you get to warrior, kid, self, Irish Oaks Ranch.com. Got young, aid, and warrior, kid.
[02:12:00] Making soap. Yeah, interesting. Having his own business. Yeah, throw them some support.
[02:12:06] Whatever, Irish Oaks Ranch.com. Real soap, too. By the way, yeah, this like,
[02:12:11] ooh, let me buy the soap. Kit online and put my flavor in there and sell it. You can do that.
[02:12:18] Oh, I didn't know you could do that. How that do you even know that? I, you know,
[02:12:21] yeah, I know, I've got to get into warrior knowledge.
[02:12:25] But the less, alright, don't forget about YouTube. And that's where you can see Echo's legit videos.
[02:12:31] And when you get to watch the video, make sure you get to the right.
[02:12:36] Nonetheless, we do have a YouTube channel. That's the point. That is the point. Because, you know, if you like the
[02:12:40] video version or you didn't know there was a video version, you can leave comments there, too.
[02:12:44] Yeah. I read them. I read YouTube comments. Even though Joe Rogan tells me not to.
[02:12:50] Yeah, because you do, that's a slippery slope because if a comment comes and it like,
[02:12:54] it's like, what's the worst can comment is the kind that's true or kind of true that like,
[02:13:01] just like, are you saying like, it won't, it's not a hard time. It's a indirect fire. It's an indirect
[02:13:06] fire, but more effective like, you know, in your neck or something. You know, it's like, that kind of,
[02:13:10] it has to be a little bit true. I actually, I think I've told you this before, but I was one night,
[02:13:15] I was reading YouTube comments to my oldest dog or about me. Because they were, and I forget it was,
[02:13:22] it wasn't our podcast. It was, it was a different podcast to podcasts that maybe people weren't as
[02:13:27] much on board with the programs. They had a lot of really colorful things to see. So, I think just
[02:13:34] Joe Rogan saying to you, like, don't read them and this is why he doesn't say that. He just,
[02:13:39] he doesn't say like, hey, hey, John, don't know. He's like, oh, you can't read the YouTube comments.
[02:13:44] Right. He'll say it like that. Yes, and that's what I mean. So, you're just knowing that allows you to
[02:13:48] go in and, and know, like, okay, you can read them and you just got to know that that's a successful,
[02:13:52] but it's pretty much now when Jordan Peterson, like, says he reads it, but like, they impact him.
[02:13:57] Yes, he just didn't know. He didn't. No, Joe Rogan needs to tell him that you got to tell him,
[02:14:02] hey, that's like that's got a normal comment section as well. I'm saying it's not like on Instagram
[02:14:06] where it's like, hey, you know, it's like, it's just different. The dynamic, bro, are you to make these
[02:14:11] videos? You know this, but are you to make these videos like a, you know, parodies of like Darth Vader
[02:14:15] goes on dates and then I made this one, of course. You put those on my channel on our channel,
[02:14:20] on our channel. People still watch. I mean, they're funny. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm in Jeff
[02:14:25] with, but I made this one, uh, bikini light saber battle. Yeah. It's like, you know, um, glory in them.
[02:14:32] They're just fighting with light sabers at the beach or whatever. And, well, you know, people
[02:14:37] watch them, but man, I look at the comments on that man. It's like, people, I think someone wanted
[02:14:42] me to die. He said whoever made this should die. Like literally said that. I was like,
[02:14:46] hey, what was they hating about it? What were they hating about? That it was dumb.
[02:14:50] Oh, okay. Which it is, by the way. Yeah, it's like two girls. They're mad at something.
[02:14:56] And they've got something dumb. Then they fight lightsaber and then like,
[02:15:00] she won the girl kills the other one and then like spider man comes out. Is basically all the
[02:15:05] props that I had at my house. It's like, let me make a video. Yeah. So it was like, you know, it was dumb
[02:15:10] for sure. But, bro, you don't have to say that. Concoments like, I got to die now because it's dumb.
[02:15:15] You know, the point of the point is, yeah, you got to kind of know that that's not a normal
[02:15:20] comments. Yeah. You too, there. But, you know, I get to get in a statement out of it. It's pretty fun.
[02:15:26] Also, you got psychological warfare that's on iTunes, Google Play and B3 platforms. And that is a
[02:15:32] album with tracks about how to overcome various stages of weakness that you might occur
[02:15:36] that might occur during your day. That's all we're going to say about that one. It's good. That's
[02:15:40] very concise. Yeah. It's jockel though, by the way, on the track. So that's something. Also, on it,
[02:15:46] on it.com slash jockel. This is where I get all my kettlebells and socks, like I mentioned. It seems
[02:15:52] odd like why we just get socks from on it because they're freaking dope. But you ever look at the
[02:15:56] socks on it. They're freaking good. Yeah. Really good. You want to flex on the water pattern.
[02:16:01] I got all of them. So weird flex, but okay. Yeah. No, when you want to flex at the with, uh,
[02:16:10] at the people at the TSA. I keep, I keep wanting to use the term flex like in its modern way.
[02:16:16] Because my kids use it. Yeah. And I keep wanting to use it. Yeah. Keep trying, man. Yeah. I think
[02:16:22] you're doing pretty good. But no, I haven't really appropriately used it yet. Well, you used weird
[02:16:27] flex, but okay. On to me, not about me. Like you're saying about someone else. No, but you're
[02:16:33] seeing too. No, because KT had a video that was called that. Oh, it's called weird flex,
[02:16:37] but okay. And that's when I realized it was a thing. That that that that's an actual thing.
[02:16:42] Yeah. Weird flex, but okay. No, you told me it was a thing. Yeah. It was like this. Yeah.
[02:16:47] I don't use it. I want to use it. But it's sort of humble brag, right?
[02:16:51] Like we're flex, almost. Yeah. It's like you're bringing about something kind of weird to brag
[02:16:55] about, but cool man. Dude, dude, dude. You did kind of thing. Oh, that's what the
[02:16:59] answer case this video was. Weird flex what okay was about he was in a, he's in a movie
[02:17:06] and he was kind of like flexing. He was in a movie. Yeah. And he was like, but okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[02:17:10] Yeah. Yeah. He was all fired up. Yeah. Be more like, hey, like, I can turn my eyelids inside
[02:17:16] out. Okay. We are flex. Okay. I think his flex was a little
[02:17:24] funny. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you see what I'm saying. That's the answer. Nonetheless, on it,
[02:17:29] this is where you get your fitness stuff. You know how we're, we all have home gyms. Most of us. Yeah.
[02:17:35] And you know, you want to dig you on somewhere kennel bells, you know, some jump ropes,
[02:17:38] battle ropes, like stuff, more good stuff to keep you on the path, keep you on shape. That's where
[02:17:43] you go on it dot. If you, if you want to hit your mind and shape, you're brain in shape,
[02:17:49] then you should read if you want to read some books that I wrote, then cool. You can read Mikey
[02:17:54] in the dragons. Best children's book ever for children under the age of six voted by me and you.
[02:18:02] Yeah. And our children and our children actually someone asked my daughter, my middle daughter,
[02:18:08] the other day, what's your favorite book of your dad's? And she said Mikey in the dragons.
[02:18:14] Interesting. Yeah. My daughter didn't, we didn't have any kind of official like,
[02:18:17] oh, what's the best one? But the one that she always reaches for pushes for is where the warrior
[02:18:23] kid to. Yeah. She likes marks mission. Yeah. So there's that. So there's Mikey in the dragons.
[02:18:27] There's way the warrior kid to marks mission. There's way the court warrior kid. One,
[02:18:33] we just call way the warrior kid. Soon to be way the warrior kid three writing is complete.
[02:18:39] John Bowzeck is knee deep in the art right now. And that will be coming out in the spring.
[02:18:45] I'm going to get it on Amazon for pre-order as early as I possibly can so we don't have another
[02:18:51] scenario like we had with Mikey in the dragons where we bought you all bought a lot of them.
[02:18:57] And I didn't have them on hand. Let's say, digging everybody, everybody by Christa. So
[02:19:03] look for that one way the warrior kid three will be coming out. And then of course we got
[02:19:07] discipline equals freedom field manual, which is awesome to see that impact people.
[02:19:13] And it's also a good gift to give to people that maybe need a little help. Yeah. Just kind of
[02:19:20] just stay in the direction extreme ownership and that I got to me a leadership. Those are the
[02:19:24] leadership books that I wrote with my brother, Lave Babin. And they will help you
[02:19:31] with your organization and in your business and in your life lead. And when also we got Ashland
[02:19:38] Front, which is my leadership consultancy. It's me. It's Lave Babin, JP D'Nell, Dave Burke,
[02:19:46] Flynn, Cochrane, Mike's Rally, Mike Bima. There's a picture that echoes into. He's randomly
[02:19:54] in the picture on the website. Yeah, but he's not one of the leadership instructors. He is one
[02:20:01] of the leadership instructor, Filmers. Right. Hey man, I'm on the website. So that's really all.
[02:20:10] So what we do is we solve problems through leadership. Go to Ashlandfront.com for that. We also have
[02:20:15] the master coming up 2019. It's going to be May 23rd, 24th in Chicago, September 19th, and 20th in Denver.
[02:20:21] And December 4th and 5th in Sydney, Australia. Check out a treemoniship.com.
[02:20:28] They all have sold out and this will sell out as well. And when you go to that, you're going to get
[02:20:37] granular explanations, multiple angles on how to work and apply this stuff. And if you can't
[02:20:46] come to a master, guess what? You can go somewhere else. You can go to EF online.com. This is what
[02:20:51] we put together. Talk us about nine months to film, put together design. It's me in the rest of the
[02:20:57] Ashlandfront team training leadership through technology. And it's available for we originally
[02:21:06] designed it for enterprise for companies that we work with that have 48,000 employees. And we can't
[02:21:12] travel the globe in train them all. So we put this stuff online. And it's also available now
[02:21:19] direct to consumer. EF online.com. And also we have EF overwatch. EF overwatch.com. We're here
[02:21:27] connecting proven leaders from combat aviation and from special operations. And we're plugging
[02:21:32] them into companies that need leadership to win at their mission. So get it go to EF overwatch.com.
[02:21:43] If you need that. And if you want to pass on lessons learned to us, we are kicking it on the
[02:21:53] interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on Facebook. Eko is at Eko Charles and I am at Jock
[02:22:01] Willink. And of course, thanks to all of our military personnel around the world who stand
[02:22:11] their ground to protect us. And also thank you to our police and law enforcement, the firefighters,
[02:22:20] the paramedics and EMTs, the correctional officers, the folks on board of patrol and all the
[02:22:26] first responders who stand their ground here at home to protect us. And everyone else, I always say
[02:22:37] that time is short. But most of us have more than six seconds. The six seconds that Corp.
[02:22:52] Jonathan Yale and Lance Corp. Jordan Hurger had to make the ultimate decision and the ultimate
[02:23:01] sacrifice they could have had more time. Had they run away. But they sacrificed it all.
[02:23:17] They gave up their time, but we still have time to time. They gave us.
[02:23:23] So don't waste it. Not six minutes of it, not six seconds of it, not one second of it,
[02:23:35] none of it. Get out there every second of every day. And get after it.
[02:23:42] Good. Good until next time. This is echo and jockel. Out.