Jocko Podcast 160 Live in NYC. Humbled and Mystified.

2019-01-16T23:25:06Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening: A Letter to Seth Stone. 0:42:31 - Rough transition to Q and A. 1:34:51 - Q and A from the Audience. 2:19:08 - Closing.

AI summary of episode

This is a question I get asked all the time, everybody wants them to know who to hire and what I look for and obviously I look for someone that's humble and I look for someone that's balanced and really, you know, it's one of those things where as much as you can before you hire someone get to know them and the advice we give people the national on front all the time when they're looking to hire someone is we say, look, if you can hire them temporarily, bring them on as a contractor for 90 days, you have to see them in the environment that they're actually going into, they're going to be working in before you know what they're really going to be like because just like going through, they screen people like crazy to go into seal training and they can't tell who's going to make it and who's not going to make it. and then you have to tell yourself that you're not going to quit no matter what happens no matter what happens you're not going to quit no matter what happens because they're going to play a little psychological games on you like like let's say they go all he's in good shape he's you know we can't really touch him physically he's in really good shape so now you know what they're going to do they're going to say oh you know you failed this academic test you're not smart you're not really smart enough yeah so take it easy and all that being said I do have strategic conversations with my wife about the family team right like we're a business like your your house and your family is a business you have income you have expenditures you have long-term strategic goals so those kind of things we talk about and you know I'm the one that's sort of is usually saying hey what about this strategic goal what are you doing over here what do you want to do that so we have those conversations but not so much me saying how but me you know us figuring out what we're going together life this she ever like teach you how to be strategic in any way like be more sensitive or anything like that bro you serious and so I've had to have this conversation over and over again and what we're going to do is number one we're not going to act like we know everything even if you do know more even if you have things more figured out than these guys if you go in there and act like it guess what they're going to do they're going to reject you who is this young whipper snapper young buck thinks he knows everything he doesn't know about this he doesn't know about that they'll sabotage you to make you look bad but if you go in there in your humble I'm not talking about being a pushover I'm not talking about being weak we're looking I want to have some time to hang out sign books we got to be out here by 11 so we're getting close go ahead man front row Jacko thank you for speaking tonight just a quick question I've I work in a corporation here in New York and one of the toughest things with being an analyst here is just the fact of like when you actually escalate or you know which which kind of feels like defeat but also at the same time you want to make sure you live in somebody else to know what's going on so just want to ask you about that thank you for me I look at a problem if I think I can contain the problem then I'm going to try and contain the problem I recognize so if echo if echo is working for me I show up he's more experienced than me and I show up and I say all right here's what we're doing here's how we're doing this mission here's how it's going to be my way and I think he knows what's up now he knows he's on the boss what's he actually thinking who's this idiot that's had the job for three days and he thinks he's going to tell me what to do and he's going to he's going to resist it he's going to sabotage he's going to and we're going to have a bad relationship but if I come in and say hey echo really great to meet you you know I'm just checking in here I was looking at your that's a person that I can emulate that was when I got to the seal teams up to that point I was looking I was a confused kid that was looking at this you know this person and that person but I didn't really but even though even I wasn't confused enough to be like all I'm going to be like that person and follow what they're doing I would look at people like that seems pretty cool that seems pretty cool and so it wasn't till I got into the seal teams and there were some people that you instantly when I checked into the seal team one I'm like that guy's awesome so what would I do in this situation first of all I am going to be awesome at the paperwork I'm gonna do it so well that because if you blow off the paperwork then you go to your boss and say the paperwork sucks and it's not any good the guy looks at you and says oh you know what you don't even not to do the paperwork how do you know how do you know if it's harder or not so what I'm going to do is I'm going to do I'm going to start building a case that's what I'm going to do it's everyone's got their awesome special operations units and the training is all hard and all for when I heard the seals the toughest training is okay that's what I want to do what do you do to get ready for you know what you got to do to get ready for you know army guess what you're going to be humpin' a rock you're going to be doing force marches you got to be over the run you got to build a nav you got to be able to do push ups and pull ups and and dips and rope crimes and offscores that's what you got to do you got to train hard you got to train as hard as you possibly can but I'm going to lean towards being humble I'm going to lean towards listening to what they have to say I'm going to lean towards saying hey you know I've never handled a case like this before you have any perspective you can help me out with this instead of hey this case is mine let me show you how it's going to be that right there you're taking a relationship in a negative direction we want to we want to we want to build a team well we're going to do missions we don't know how bad it's going to be it might be bad it might not be that's sort of was the standard those guys that were coming into a body that relieved us from body they knew and the senior enlisted guys are one of my very good friends those guys knew 100 percent they went to Mike Montsource and then got on a plane and came over they knew 100 percent and so for me I won't forget looking at this group of guys that were about to start a six month appointment and telling them you are going to take casualties and that was just a blunt honest truth and they did take casualties they didn't lose anyone they had no one killed but they took some very very severe casualties and did a great job a great group of guys but that was a harsh reality to walk into for sure Roger I would do one more of these questions before the life questions will go live people what was your first combat mission and what was your role so 2003 I deployed to Baghdad as a seal-potent commander and the senior enlisted guy of my task unit was already in Baghdad waiting for us and this guy is an incredible guy just as a matter of fact his wife tells him and me that we're soulmates she jealous awesome thank you all by you question over here you he's leaving it I like to come prepared good evening jockel good evening what lesson do you wish you'd have learned earlier in life that you now know it is disciplinical freedom I mean that is the thing that that when I connected that together in my head that that the fact that that applies to absolutely everything that's the biggest lesson that I wish I would have learned earlier in life and if I would have figured that out then I would have been doing a lot better and I would have done a lot better and I would have been a lot better of a person the thing that I try to tell kids I try to tell them that for sure the other thing that I think kids miss is kids and I miss is something that I completely missed as a kid the actions that you take now affect your future that sounds so obvious but when you're 14 you just think no nothing I you know my life is only another 20 minutes yep we heard from Jocco you know he put out the word he didn't say much doesn't even seem like he has to we we hear we's coming from so you just have to build a team that's going to compliment your weaknesses and you know generally if you're introverted well that means you're good at some other thing that that loudmouth isn't good at right the loudmouth is like who's going the front door kick it down and he doesn't have any sort of tactical sense of how to run an operation smoothly so you come up with a good plan and then you brief it's a bill loudmouth bill and you can definitely put them in guide them in the right direction but what you don't want to do is make every decision for them what you don't want to do is only let them do what you tell them to do they've got to learn to make decisions otherwise they can't go into the world and defend for themselves they've got a suffer consequences of their bad decisions otherwise they can't defend for themselves in the world so you have to set this before you have to you have to like let them brush up against the guardrails of failure you have to let them tie their on you you have to let them spill the milk and the more you make or allow them to do for themselves the better human beings they're going to be the more that you do for them and force on them and impose on them the less they're going to know for themselves and the more they're going to rebel against the values that you're putting forth to them again it's a dichotomy

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] Everybody.
[00:00:02] And he will Heep
[00:00:05] who we hope
[00:00:06] can be
[00:00:08] from the world to death.
[00:00:10] He may be
[00:00:14] died
[00:00:17] Good. Good. This is Jockel Podcast number 160. With echo Charles and me, Jockel
[00:00:43] and me, I'm going to go. Good evening. Good evening. October. I'm going to head your way
[00:01:02] and see you today. Though sometimes I wonder why I should. Sometimes you don't seem
[00:01:17] to care and that makes me mad brother. And then when I see you, it doesn't really make
[00:01:29] me feel any better. Shoot it. Is that what this is for? It doesn't seem to be. It actually
[00:01:47] just makes me remember the way things used to be. Better times. It makes me
[00:01:59] wonder why things turned out this way. What did I do wrong? Should I have done something
[00:02:12] different? What could I have said? You never let me down ever. But now you won't even talk
[00:02:30] to me. I was looking at some of the things you wrote to me in the past. I opened up an
[00:02:41] email. In it, you wrote, I feel it again washing over me. The descent into degeneration
[00:02:54] and disintegration, the smell of filth, black water mixed with blood and gunpowder and shit.
[00:03:04] The American soldier covered in filth 11 months into a 16 month deployment. The insurgents
[00:03:17] grown men hiding behind children. Women wailing over the dead, explosions and screams
[00:03:26] and fragments of concrete flying through the air and frog men enter the scene to take the
[00:03:36] hand of the American soldier and pull him from the whirlpool to set his feet back on the
[00:03:43] rock and speak words of hope. We are the prophets of doom and destruction. We enter an
[00:03:52] area and take back the lost pride of America. We redden the stripes blue the field and
[00:04:02] make the stars of our tattered and humiliated battleants and shine once again. We hold it
[00:04:11] high. We carry a nation on our shoulders and we bring the enemy to its knees. We do not live
[00:04:22] in fear of death or wounding or even worse rejection by the country we love. I feel my mind
[00:04:33] becoming a part and the old sleeping animal coming out. I tried to keep it inside but it
[00:04:43] cannot help but attend the call to battle. When you originally wrote that to me I thought
[00:05:00] to myself. Yup. He's there again. Where he should be. I knew it wouldn't last forever. But
[00:05:19] where are you now? Now you see distant. In my head I can see you smile. I can hear you laugh
[00:05:32] but it's only in my head. I was surfing the other day. It was one of those days of good
[00:05:44] day. Solid swell. No wind. Tied was low and the sky was clear and bright. I kept looking
[00:05:57] out toward the outside where you used to sit and wait for the big set waves. I thought
[00:06:09] I saw you a couple times but it wasn't you. I heard someone paddling behind me must be
[00:06:22] you. I thought no. Nothing. No one's there. I'm all alone out here. Everything is the
[00:06:41] same but nothing is the same. Everything is changed but nothing is changed.
[00:06:52] Does anything ever change? Look at the waves as they approach the shore. Each wave formed
[00:07:06] through random combinations of wind and sea and pressure and each one completely unique.
[00:07:17] Then they break. They're gone forever. But then another one comes behind it and another
[00:07:29] one. They are all different but they're all the same. And I see some of the past and the
[00:07:42] future and I see some of the future in the past and I begin to wonder which is which.
[00:07:52] How did I get here? Where am I going to end up? Where are you? I look at some more
[00:08:08] you're writing. You are telling a story, writing a story about a man, about God, about life,
[00:08:23] about death. And this is what you wrote. I am ready to go. He thought to himself. But for you,
[00:08:37] I wait for the appointed time. They will. He said to himself and closed his eyes and placed
[00:08:47] his hands on the pages as if there was some strength there and he prayed. While he prayed,
[00:08:57] he also thought of past times. He breathed in deep and exiled. Deliver us from the evil one,
[00:09:10] he muttered. And he thought of all the reasons he had no right to say this prayer. At that,
[00:09:21] he stated himself, opened his eyes and looked out into the first light of the morning. He saw
[00:09:30] a face not his own looking back at him from the window and disappear. But he was not startled. This
[00:09:40] kind of thing was normal. I'm ready for you. He thought to himself. While he ran that morning,
[00:09:52] he did not think about anything. His mind retreated deep into itself, or perhaps it shut down
[00:09:59] altogether and he wore no expression. He only looked out at the sea and watched as the sea birds
[00:10:07] glided above the undulating plane of water, moving close above its surface, but managing somehow,
[00:10:14] not to touch it. At home, he heaved weights around on a small concrete slab.
[00:10:24] His routine effortlessly recited and at the same time painfully undertaken again
[00:10:30] without fought or care. Every morning the same, marking off time until an appointed end,
[00:10:44] his final rendezvous.
[00:10:52] That's what you wrote.
[00:10:53] Is that what we are doing here?
[00:11:01] Marking off time until an appointed end?
[00:11:08] My memory plays tricks on me.
[00:11:15] How many days do I remember?
[00:11:17] How many days do I actually remember?
[00:11:27] And what good is a day that I can't remember?
[00:11:33] Did it happen? Did it exist?
[00:11:37] I want to remember every day, but I can't.
[00:11:48] I let some of them go and I hate that.
[00:11:53] I want to remember and remember the times we had together.
[00:12:09] We played songs on the guitar, but I can't hear them anymore.
[00:12:16] They are gone. I can't recreate them.
[00:12:32] I'm not good enough.
[00:12:37] Can we play them again?
[00:12:40] One more song.
[00:12:51] Here is some more of your writing.
[00:12:56] I am God's messenger.
[00:13:00] I am a chieftain of Michael the angel.
[00:13:05] He has granted my request to help you
[00:13:08] for his you who are doing the bidding of the king.
[00:13:13] We have heard your many prayers.
[00:13:16] They burn before us day and night.
[00:13:19] Yes, heaven is full of the fragrance of your prayers.
[00:13:24] And I bring glad tidings from the Lord of Lords.
[00:13:31] He is preparing his mount to ride here.
[00:13:34] But there is still more to be done on earth before he wields his scythe and sword upon it.
[00:13:45] I bring a message.
[00:13:48] The Lord of Lords wants to help you reap the spirits against whom you are warring.
[00:13:55] Indeed, Satan has asked to have you.
[00:14:03] But we will not let that happen.
[00:14:09] Of course, you always have a choice.
[00:14:14] I have come a long way though.
[00:14:18] I came when we heard your last prayer.
[00:14:20] You will not be turned.
[00:14:34] When I read that, it seems obvious.
[00:14:42] Even God was on your side.
[00:14:44] God.
[00:14:48] But if God was on your side, how did you end up like this then?
[00:14:55] How could you do this to me?
[00:15:00] What about me?
[00:15:03] Yeah, I know.
[00:15:04] I'm being selfish, but what about me?
[00:15:15] What I'm not going to see you today, you can wait.
[00:15:20] After everything I did for you, after everything we went through together,
[00:15:25] you can wait.
[00:15:37] December.
[00:15:43] Okay.
[00:15:46] I calm down a little bit.
[00:15:47] I pride myself in keeping control of my emotions,
[00:15:58] but I got to admit, you had me break down a little bit for a while.
[00:16:05] Do you see that?
[00:16:09] You probably laugh at me.
[00:16:12] So I'm going to come up and see you today.
[00:16:14] Okay.
[00:16:17] Is that cool?
[00:16:20] I mean, it's supposed to be cool.
[00:16:25] If nothing else, just to say goodbye.
[00:16:33] I'll bring you a beer or two.
[00:16:37] I don't even drink anymore, but you know what?
[00:16:39] If you crack one open with me, I'll have one with you.
[00:16:46] Like old times.
[00:16:52] What happened to those times?
[00:16:58] We were brothers.
[00:16:59] And when we came home, we knew.
[00:17:08] We made it.
[00:17:12] We made it, man.
[00:17:16] As crazy it seems, I was actually never that worried about you.
[00:17:24] Maybe you were blessed.
[00:17:25] Maybe you were lucky.
[00:17:28] Maybe it was both, but whatever it was, it worked.
[00:17:36] You even wrote to me during your next deployment.
[00:17:41] This is what you wrote.
[00:17:45] All I interject is my part, the firing and yelling part.
[00:17:51] But the bullets do not hit me.
[00:17:53] They never hit me. They passed through me like a miracle.
[00:17:59] Two days ago, we drove through a village and knocked all the power lines down.
[00:18:04] And it was night and the sparks were like incoming RPGs.
[00:18:11] I wished they were and brazed.
[00:18:17] But they were.
[00:18:19] And the IEDs won't come either.
[00:18:21] They won't hit me.
[00:18:24] It's like I'm being protected.
[00:18:34] You capitalize the P in protected.
[00:18:41] You believed it was a higher power.
[00:18:43] I can't write the argue with you on that.
[00:18:55] But if that's so true, how did this happen?
[00:19:02] Why did this happen?
[00:19:04] Where did that protection go?
[00:19:09] Did it abandon you?
[00:19:11] Like you abandoned me?
[00:19:17] What am I supposed to do now?
[00:19:26] You know what?
[00:19:29] I'm not going to see you today.
[00:19:30] Okay, you can wait.
[00:19:43] February.
[00:19:47] It's a new year.
[00:19:50] Let's try this again.
[00:19:56] Time heals all wounds.
[00:19:58] They say, so we should be good now, right?
[00:20:04] I should be over it all by now.
[00:20:07] I'll come see you and at a minimum, say goodbye.
[00:20:11] Just say goodbye.
[00:20:14] Just tell you that's it.
[00:20:17] No hard feelings.
[00:20:18] Don't take it personally.
[00:20:19] I've decided I'm going to go ahead and proceed on down the path without you.
[00:20:30] Alone.
[00:20:34] And I'm used to being alone.
[00:20:38] No big deal.
[00:20:40] I kind of like it.
[00:20:41] But even I have to admit it was nice.
[00:20:51] Nice to have someone to talk to.
[00:20:52] Nice to have someone to talk to without even talking.
[00:20:55] I think a look, a nod, a smile.
[00:21:09] No one is smiling back anymore.
[00:21:16] No one.
[00:21:16] Sometimes I look up at the night sky.
[00:21:29] That can approximate a smile.
[00:21:35] I see a smile in the sunset.
[00:21:38] I don't know why.
[00:21:41] I try to milk what I can out of every day.
[00:21:45] I should be cursing the sunset.
[00:21:52] That sunset means another day is gone.
[00:21:59] I should be cursing it, but I don't.
[00:22:04] I take a few minutes when I can and I watch it.
[00:22:07] Good night, Al-Hui.
[00:22:15] Good night, Chesty.
[00:22:19] Good night, Stoner.
[00:22:27] Maybe there's some relief that the day has gone.
[00:22:30] Is that it?
[00:22:31] That part of the race is over and there is an
[00:22:34] a damn thing I can do about it.
[00:22:44] When my oldest daughter was little,
[00:22:48] we would watch the sunset over the ocean
[00:22:52] when we'd get the chance.
[00:22:56] When she was at that age,
[00:22:58] when she was only just starting to talk,
[00:22:59] she could just say a handful of words.
[00:23:06] When she wanted a drink of milk,
[00:23:09] she would say nook.
[00:23:14] When she wanted to go on the swing,
[00:23:16] she would say,
[00:23:17] Ving!
[00:23:21] When I would throw up her up in the air and catch her,
[00:23:24] she would laugh and she would giggle and she would say the word,
[00:23:28] again.
[00:23:34] And she and I were sitting on the sea wall.
[00:23:38] It was autumn and the sun was leaning towards the south
[00:23:42] and we watched and she watched the colors in the sky,
[00:23:48] red and yellow and orange, like fire and the water ignited,
[00:23:59] then it turned black and the sun disappeared into the ocean
[00:24:04] and she looked up at me and she said, again!
[00:24:08] She wanted it back,
[00:24:22] but I couldn't do anything for her.
[00:24:29] I was powerless.
[00:24:30] I still am.
[00:24:38] I can't stop the clock and I can't bring back a day,
[00:24:42] not one single day, not one single minute,
[00:24:46] you get what you get.
[00:24:54] And that sunset will keep a man's ego in check,
[00:24:57] especially when you're complete lack of control
[00:25:01] disappoints the little angel sitting on your knee.
[00:25:12] And I can't control this situation either.
[00:25:17] And that's things.
[00:25:21] And I don't want to face that.
[00:25:22] I don't want to say goodbye.
[00:25:30] That can wait.
[00:25:35] You can wait.
[00:25:43] May.
[00:25:46] Springtime.
[00:25:47] Springtime.
[00:25:51] Rebirth.
[00:25:52] So I'm told.
[00:25:57] The winter swell fades, but the water warms up.
[00:26:02] The days get longer again.
[00:26:08] I like that.
[00:26:11] I look at more of your words.
[00:26:13] They read, he found a sleeping spot.
[00:26:20] Happy and excited with anticipation.
[00:26:23] He thought of the glory which was to come and he slept
[00:26:26] tranquil and did not dream.
[00:26:30] The blue midnight sky held no trace of trouble,
[00:26:34] almost no clouds.
[00:26:36] Only a whisp of silver gray near the moon
[00:26:40] that seemed to be something beautiful for the humans
[00:26:43] below to look at as an omen that something good might happen.
[00:26:49] As some kind of sign that heaven awaited it,
[00:26:55] the good thing.
[00:27:02] The good thing, you wrote.
[00:27:04] You wrote.
[00:27:07] What am I supposed to do with that?
[00:27:13] You set me up, you know,
[00:27:16] with thoughts of the good thing.
[00:27:21] Because there we were.
[00:27:25] You know, we were headed in the right direction
[00:27:28] toward the good things.
[00:27:34] When you listen to me, things worked out always.
[00:27:39] Right?
[00:27:42] You know it.
[00:27:45] When you listen to me and you put your damn heart in check,
[00:27:50] things worked out.
[00:27:51] You know, what's your problem?
[00:27:56] You listen to your heart too much.
[00:27:57] You know this.
[00:28:01] Let your emotions get a hold of you.
[00:28:03] You know it's true.
[00:28:06] I told you a thousand times,
[00:28:08] ten thousand times,
[00:28:12] and you tried to listen and you did listen sometimes.
[00:28:15] Sometimes.
[00:28:20] But your heart couldn't be completely subdued.
[00:28:24] It was too strong.
[00:28:28] Too strong for its own good.
[00:28:35] And yeah, I know.
[00:28:40] I know that's what makes you, you.
[00:28:43] You find.
[00:28:51] But you should listen to me.
[00:28:54] You should have listened.
[00:28:57] And now I am here and you are there and there's nothing I can do about it.
[00:29:13] Comparison.
[00:29:14] Jullai.
[00:29:28] Full fledged summer now.
[00:29:33] Campfires and guitar on the regular.
[00:29:38] Where are you at?
[00:29:39] I'm at.
[00:29:43] And let me ask you something.
[00:29:44] If you aren't going to come around, then can you just let me be?
[00:29:51] I don't want you in my head right now.
[00:29:56] I don't want to get dragged back every time I strum a chord.
[00:29:59] I remember.
[00:30:12] We were traveling up the coast.
[00:30:14] You made lazy days.
[00:30:21] Surfing by day.
[00:30:22] Playing on the get boxes at night.
[00:30:29] We were looking for bigger waves.
[00:30:31] The kind of waves that get the blood flowing.
[00:30:37] We found so.
[00:30:44] But what were we really looking for?
[00:30:45] We were looking for that thing.
[00:30:58] That moment.
[00:31:00] That moment when nothing else matters.
[00:31:05] That moment that is sourced directly from the battlefield.
[00:31:12] Hard to find anywhere else.
[00:31:13] So we try and get close to it.
[00:31:18] Jujitsu surfing, whatever, but it's hard to replace.
[00:31:22] Maybe it can't be replaced.
[00:31:28] Maybe it just is what it is.
[00:31:34] I think I understood that.
[00:31:39] I'm not sure you did.
[00:31:40] I was able to rationalize it, figure out, detach from it.
[00:31:48] See it from the outside.
[00:31:53] Before that trip up the coast,
[00:31:56] you had written me these words.
[00:32:00] Send us.
[00:32:01] We are thirsty for screams and gore and hell and dirt and shit.
[00:32:11] We will hack our way through scores of bodies, form them up in a pile and burn them so we can
[00:32:17] kill by the pyre light.
[00:32:21] Somebody spread the good news that the killers teeth are sharp and their guns are clean and their
[00:32:27] souls are dead so no one needs anything but victory and sacred death.
[00:32:33] When is it done?
[00:32:41] You see that was your heart talking again.
[00:32:47] The same heart that wrapped around a girl you met.
[00:32:50] The same heart that brought my kids birthday presents.
[00:32:54] The same heart that was broken by the loss of our friends.
[00:33:02] A heart capable of both devotion and destruction.
[00:33:13] I told you to let it all go.
[00:33:15] I told you.
[00:33:27] But I can't control everything.
[00:33:28] I'm still powerless.
[00:33:45] September.
[00:33:50] A year has passed.
[00:33:52] Or was it yesterday?
[00:34:00] Time seems like a trick but the trick is on me because it's no trick at all.
[00:34:05] Time does not waver.
[00:34:07] It does not relinquish.
[00:34:08] It isn't tricky.
[00:34:10] It just is.
[00:34:11] It is moving on without judgment and without mercy and it will keep moving.
[00:34:23] I am coming up to see you today.
[00:34:28] I have to.
[00:34:32] I have to say goodbye.
[00:34:33] I can't do it like this anymore.
[00:34:38] Carrying you around in my head.
[00:34:43] Bringing back the past so often that it's interfering with the present and the future.
[00:34:49] That's not right.
[00:34:53] That wasn't part of the deal.
[00:34:54] I arrived.
[00:35:09] You're still there.
[00:35:12] What I left you.
[00:35:13] I brought you a beer and some wax for your board and a guitar pick.
[00:35:24] Even though you play better without one.
[00:35:30] I already went and saw Mikey and Mark.
[00:35:36] I save you for last.
[00:35:38] That's the way it is.
[00:35:44] You were the last to go.
[00:35:55] And this is the way it always ends.
[00:36:01] Here.
[00:36:01] It always ends like this.
[00:36:09] And I will end up here too.
[00:36:16] But I didn't know you'd end up here so soon.
[00:36:18] Here's your beer.
[00:36:33] I'll pour it in the grass for you.
[00:36:35] I'll put this bar of surf wax on top of your grapestone.
[00:36:49] Look at Tarpick next to it.
[00:36:50] I read the words.
[00:37:04] It's etched in that white granite rock.
[00:37:19] Seth A Stone.
[00:37:25] Commander.
[00:37:26] The US Navy.
[00:37:31] Afghanistan Iraq.
[00:37:36] September 17, 1976.
[00:37:41] September 30, 2017.
[00:37:44] Silver star with oak leaf cluster.
[00:37:56] Bronze star metal with valor.
[00:38:04] Faithful warrior.
[00:38:05] Faithful warrior.
[00:38:15] I always tell everyone to carry on.
[00:38:38] Tomorrow but not to dwell.
[00:38:40] But now I'm dwelling myself.
[00:38:51] And I know I shouldn't.
[00:38:56] I thought long and hard about it.
[00:39:10] And I was going to say goodbye.
[00:39:26] But I'm not going to say it.
[00:39:34] There's no need.
[00:39:36] You're still with me.
[00:39:45] You're in the ocean and in the sky and in the earth beneath my feet.
[00:39:59] You're still with me.
[00:39:59] And I'm good with that.
[00:40:05] Here's one more thing you wrote.
[00:40:31] I thought the enemy is good as I could.
[00:40:38] I lost myself but in doing so I found myself.
[00:40:45] It is a path.
[00:40:49] You have to work your own one out.
[00:40:53] It is a struggle.
[00:40:54] I've listened to the truth.
[00:41:04] I am humbled and mystified by this life we live.
[00:41:09] I am humbled and mystified by this life too.
[00:41:30] I am going to keep on living it.
[00:41:35] I can't stop the sunsets and I can't bring them back but I can make them count.
[00:42:03] And that is what I am going to do.
[00:42:09] I am going to keep on living and I am going to make it count.
[00:42:39] I am going to keep on living and I am going to make it count.
[00:43:09] So, here we are.
[00:43:32] And speaking of living life and trying to make it count, we are doing this gig here tonight.
[00:43:54] So, we are live.
[00:44:24] We generally call this a rough transition.
[00:44:34] Yeah.
[00:44:37] So, everyone that is here our first live podcast.
[00:44:46] Thanks for everyone for thanks to everyone for coming down.
[00:44:49] As I thought about what to talk about tonight, I went down into a pretty heavy subject.
[00:45:11] And that is part of what this whole thing is.
[00:45:23] All the people that have reached out to me over the last few years that were able to overcome
[00:45:30] some tough situation because of the podcast and to the same with me.
[00:45:42] The same lessons that we have learned from the podcast, from books, from having people on.
[00:45:50] It is the same.
[00:45:52] We get the benefit of that too.
[00:45:55] And here we are.
[00:46:04] Here we are.
[00:46:06] So, thanks for coming.
[00:46:13] Echo Charles thanks for pressing record.
[00:46:16] And stop by the way, it is a whole thing.
[00:46:29] And one of the main things, and one of the main reasons I wanted to do a live podcast is to
[00:46:36] actually see everyone and give a chance for you to see us and for you to see what we do and what it looks like.
[00:46:44] And this is pretty much what it looks like.
[00:46:46] We are sitting in a small room and we press record and this is what we do.
[00:46:52] And it is great to have everyone here and to see your faces.
[00:46:57] And I have talked about this before.
[00:46:58] I mean, when I am recording, I am talking to you.
[00:47:02] I am talking to the people that I have heard from over the past few years.
[00:47:06] I know you are listening.
[00:47:08] And even from day one, I wanted to put on their headsets.
[00:47:13] And I wanted to think like, okay, yep, this is where going in.
[00:47:16] This is it.
[00:47:17] Like it is on.
[00:47:18] And I want you to waste your time.
[00:47:20] I don't want to waste your time.
[00:47:24] So, that is why we are doing this tonight.
[00:47:29] I thank you all for coming.
[00:47:31] I also want to take advantage of the fact that you are here to do some live Q&A, which is very fun for me to do.
[00:47:38] I enjoyed doing it. And we did solicit questions from the ticket sales.
[00:47:46] Did I just escalate that?
[00:47:49] Yeah, we did that for ticket sales.
[00:47:54] And so we got some of those questions here.
[00:47:57] And we will start off with a couple of those.
[00:47:58] And then we have got, you can bring the Q&A lights on.
[00:48:03] And then we are going to, we have got some folks out there, volunteers with microphones.
[00:48:07] And then once we will open it up and we are going to react and answer some questions.
[00:48:15] And I know some of you were waiting to get a picture of what you get some stuff signed before
[00:48:21] this started and we will finish this and we will wrap up that for everybody here.
[00:48:26] So, it is awesome that you all are sitting here.
[00:48:28] I appreciate you coming down.
[00:48:30] And let's do a little Q&A.
[00:48:33] Yeah, yeah, all right.
[00:48:34] Yeah, it is interesting because usually we just sort of see the cameras.
[00:48:40] You know they are on the other side of the cameras.
[00:48:44] But you just see it and now it is like, oh, you actually see the view.
[00:48:48] It is different.
[00:48:49] It is different.
[00:48:50] So, all right, first question.
[00:48:53] Observation.
[00:48:55] Well, you see them saying like, now I look in the camera like, oh, okay.
[00:48:58] You see them saying?
[00:48:59] I'm just saying you see the people.
[00:49:02] Awesome.
[00:49:03] Well, let's not blow it anymore.
[00:49:05] Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh.
[00:49:08] Leaving in the first question, we can't edit out your stuff right?
[00:49:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:49:13] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:49:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:49:17] All right, Jocco, what impresses you the most when you're considering to work with someone or
[00:49:23] hire them to be part of your team?
[00:49:25] This is a question I get asked all the time, everybody wants them to know who to hire and what
[00:49:29] I look for and obviously I look for someone that's humble and I look for someone that's balanced
[00:49:36] and really, you know, it's one of those things where as much as you can before you hire someone
[00:49:43] get to know them and the advice we give people the national on front all the time when they're
[00:49:47] looking to hire someone is we say, look, if you can hire them temporarily, bring them on as
[00:49:52] a contractor for 90 days, you have to see them in the environment that they're actually going into,
[00:49:56] they're going to be working in before you know what they're really going to be like because just like
[00:50:02] going through, they screen people like crazy to go into seal training and they can't tell who's
[00:50:07] going to make it and who's not going to make it. They just can't tell and they you you work with
[00:50:13] people in the seal teams and you think you know what they're going to be like when you're going to
[00:50:17] combat but you just can't tell. You can have a decent idea but you just can't tell and so if you
[00:50:22] get the opportunity or the best way to do it is try and bring people on board in a temporary manner so
[00:50:27] you get to know them better and then once you know them you can either hire them or you can get
[00:50:31] rid of them easily. Next question makes sense.
[00:50:38] Hi, Jaco for a new entrepreneur or someone new to a leadership position who is meeting with their
[00:50:44] employees or direct report or direct reports for the first time. What are some key things to address
[00:50:51] during that initial conversation? As soon as you meet someone that's going to be working for you,
[00:50:59] you're immediately making impressions so we want to make a good impression. We also don't want to go
[00:51:05] okay it's a it's a dichotomy because you're immediately building a relationship with them but you can't
[00:51:12] go overboard and be all buddy buddy. But that's why I followed the hack worth model and I actually
[00:51:17] took that to the next level. Hack worth wouldn't like laugh and joke around with the troops for six weeks.
[00:51:24] I up that to eight weeks because I'm a little bit more hard course. Yeah. So you but but one thing
[00:51:31] that's good out of the gate is put out some brief general guidelines like some some of the most
[00:51:36] broad guidance that you can possibly give which is hey look here's what's important to me. We're
[00:51:42] going to do a great job. We're going to work hard and this is our mission and this is what we're
[00:51:46] going to focus on and that's it. You don't need to come out of the gate trying to show everyone that
[00:51:51] you're the man. You don't need to do that guess what you're the boss you actually de facto are the
[00:51:57] man so don't run around and try and prove yourself out of the gate. Get to know them let that
[00:52:04] relationship build over time and that's we're going to end up in the best situation. Make sense.
[00:52:10] You sort of did that to me even as friends like this like here here good to meet you here's you
[00:52:19] good to meet you eight weeks just like that next question yeah well it's funny too because now when I meet
[00:52:31] people like tonight I'm all nice to everyone now yeah yeah you changed you but if I was going to be
[00:52:38] like getting in the game with them and somehow yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
[00:52:42] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah that eight week probationary jacco period who are some of the well-known
[00:52:49] leaders today who you believe best exemplify extreme ownership be it in politics military or business
[00:52:55] military you know obviously I like like like matters a lot not effect I like matters yeah yeah yeah yeah
[00:53:08] I I generally same thing yep and McMaster same thing all those guys are awesome uh
[00:53:14] chronic pharlin or general McFarlin who who just retired who I worked with four in the body who is awesome
[00:53:19] so though there's a lot of really good military examples the business examples there's a mulalee who
[00:53:25] turned around forward there's a great book called American icon and it's a great leadership book
[00:53:31] I actually was going to cover it but I never did because it's hard to cover books about business
[00:53:38] compared to books about combat but it's a really good book American icon great ownership great attitude
[00:53:43] and politics this was a super hard one but then I just thought oh damn crunch off
[00:53:51] what up and really just the way dance and he's taking position like he's doing a great job
[00:54:01] it's very very cool to see so yeah there you go what else go to four cool
[00:54:10] hi jocco and echo I recently read the book Marine the life of Chesty Pillar and in the book
[00:54:17] Chesty references and the unnecessary loads of administrative paperwork that was required to be prepared
[00:54:23] for the military I also recently remember on a recent podcast you recalling a situation in
[00:54:29] Ramadi where you're platoon leaders we're not thrilled to fill out required paperwork I'm a squad
[00:54:35] sergeant in a prominent American police department and I'm experiencing the same dilemma
[00:54:42] the micromanaging and oversight is extreme and it's taking a toll on the morale of the officers
[00:54:48] citywide the tedious paperwork and constant micromanaging is preventing good cops from being proactive
[00:54:56] I feel like the job quote unquote has changed beyond recognition I had to appreciate your advice
[00:55:02] on how to approach the bullshit paperwork and increase the morale of my cops thank you for your time
[00:55:12] okay so what would I do in this situation first of all I am going to be awesome at the paperwork
[00:55:21] I'm gonna do it so well that because if you blow off the paperwork then you go to your boss and say
[00:55:28] the paperwork sucks and it's not any good the guy looks at you and says oh you know what you don't
[00:55:32] even not to do the paperwork how do you know how do you know if it's harder or not so what I'm going to
[00:55:36] do is I'm going to do I'm going to start building a case that's what I'm going to do so I'm going to do
[00:55:40] the paperwork I'm actually going to log down how many hours I put into the paperwork I'm going to
[00:55:45] follow that paperwork and see where it goes and see if anyone actually reads it right because if I
[00:55:50] can go to my boss and say hey I spent 28 hours a week filing this paperwork and no not one single
[00:55:57] person read it and then you take the manpower of everyone in the department and then what you do is
[00:56:02] you actually build a case when you go into talk to the boss you should have a full magazine of
[00:56:08] ammunition to combat this paperwork that you're being forced to do you have to be able to explain it
[00:56:14] to them in a rational logical manner and you can't you can't make any headway against your boss
[00:56:23] if you are trying to fight from the low ground the low ground is oh why don't really turn into
[00:56:29] paperwork and I don't really do the paperwork and I think the paperwork is crap then they're looking
[00:56:34] down and you what are you talking about how are you dare you say that you don't even do it you don't
[00:56:38] even know what you're doing you got to get on the high ground how do you get on the high ground
[00:56:43] you get all that stuff done to the best of your ability you log down the hours it takes you get
[00:56:48] your whole little team doing it and you tell your whole team hey look I know this is painful right now
[00:56:52] everyone in this squad everyone in this platoon is gonna do all this we're gonna log down what it takes
[00:56:58] because I am gonna bring a solid case up the chain of command of where we need to limit this paperwork
[00:57:05] this is a long war situation you know I'm gonna took to build up all that paperwork it took years
[00:57:11] it took 20 years 30 years for that to happen are you suggest you'll come out the number the Navy
[00:57:17] in the seal teams the range are range procedures are super loose we go out there and we shoot like crazy
[00:57:23] and do all kinds of really dynamic things and we sometimes go to a Marine Corps range it was like
[00:57:28] everything was super tight and I would tell my guys that say look that's because that happened over
[00:57:35] years one mistake happens how do you stop that mistake from happening again put a rule in place
[00:57:39] that stops it another mistake's happened another mistake happens put another rule in place another
[00:57:44] mistake happens put a piece of paper to stop it from happening again and eventually you end up with
[00:57:48] the range it's barely even usable so that's what happened in this department there was little
[00:57:54] things that happened over time and they built and they build upon themselves and the next thing
[00:57:58] you know you can't even recognize what your actual job was so we have to so that took 20 years to
[00:58:04] happen you're not gonna undo it overnight and you're definitely not gonna undo it from the
[00:58:11] low ground you have to get the high ground you have to be a performer if you're not a performer
[00:58:18] you have no say do your job do it well fight the long war
[00:58:32] I'm all of a sudden thinking like maybe we need one of those little applause tracks
[00:58:36] you know when I answer a question yeah yeah when it's good man it's good
[00:58:45] next question what book has had the biggest impact on you and is a must read
[00:58:53] yeah about face at work thanks for coming welcome to the club
[00:59:05] all right good on
[00:59:10] okay next first good morning was that like an erotic role band just let's the crowd sing the chorus
[00:59:17] and a little bit if you did not join the military what do you think you'd be doing right now
[00:59:27] I think I would have ended up either in the police department or a firefighter that's what I think
[00:59:34] I would have done if I couldn't have gotten into the military that's probably what I would have
[00:59:38] done up doing why just because I had the urge to serve and do something physical and do something
[00:59:49] where I'm helping protect people I think that's why so I know there's a lot of cops and firefighters
[00:59:56] here so thanks for what you do
[01:00:13] what is the relationship between humility and vulnerability
[01:00:17] the relationship between humility and vulnerability okay interesting and there's an interesting
[01:00:29] dynamic that you get going on when you when you're humble okay so let's think about what happens
[01:00:38] when you're humble when you're humble you expose your vulnerabilities but what's cool is when you
[01:00:44] expose your vulnerabilities they become less vulnerable
[01:00:52] so that's why being humble is a win because if I'm taking over a position and I don't know how
[01:00:58] to do one of the jobs if I hide it it's it's haunting me and it's a weakness because as soon as
[01:01:06] it gets exposed I'm gonna look like you know weak and a loser but if I have a vulnerability
[01:01:12] and I'm humble enough to expose my vulnerability and say hey you know what guys I haven't actually
[01:01:18] done this before my old unit we didn't ever did this and I don't have to do it can I get some help
[01:01:22] here they're I'm being humble I'm exposing my vulnerability and all of a sudden it's not a
[01:01:27] vulnerability anymore because the because my team actually knows it and guess what then I get to
[01:01:34] practice and learn about the thing that was making me vulnerable yeah so
[01:01:40] making yourself vulnerable is fine and if you want to kill your vulnerabilities you have to
[01:01:48] be humble enough to expose them voluntarily voluntarily exposing your vulnerabilities
[01:01:56] is infinitely better than hiding them and letting them be uncovered by them you know
[01:02:04] it's not that's what it is it's it's it's animals like everyone else you're
[01:02:11] polluting if you have a vulnerability and you hide it and then they get it like they're
[01:02:16] coming at you with daggers with knives they're gonna get it so if you say hey this is the situation
[01:02:25] expose those vulnerability be humble enough to do that you'll be in a much better position
[01:02:30] yeah it seems like the leader like if you're the boss and you're trying to make like oh yeah
[01:02:36] I know everything and then like how you said they they find it you look way more stupid
[01:02:42] like in the beginning it feels like he looks more stupid in the beginning I would think anyway
[01:02:47] like oh I'm the boss supposed to know all this stuff yeah I think the key point of that is way more stupid
[01:02:53] yeah you know what I look like that I don't think so in here you know I'm gonna go back to this
[01:03:01] other one three dinner guests living or dead and why three dinner guests living or dead
[01:03:12] uh Mark Lee Mike Mansour Brian Joe how do you get the nickname jacco
[01:03:33] I answered this on Facebook live not fully though I didn't know fully
[01:03:38] uh anyways before I was born my dad wanted me to be a jacco my dad's name is John my dad's
[01:03:44] nickname is John no my dad wanted me to be a jacco my mom calls my dad
[01:03:50] John no my dad said I hope he's a jacco my mom said a jacco
[01:03:56] she's a good dude I don't the yeah I don't think he said that whole thing
[01:04:01] you know that's the deal and then I'm actually when I said that my mom said actually my dad was
[01:04:09] nicknamed John oh not by her but by his family because he was named after his uncle
[01:04:17] whose name was John Obo Ford for something like that yeah so there you go yeah man it goes deep there you go
[01:04:24] no that question for jacco do you teach your wife about being strategic and how open
[01:04:34] is she to how open is she to having her husband be her teacher that's a good one that's a
[01:04:44] that's a good one for who for for for ruining my life it's a good one for me
[01:05:06] first of all let's assess this how many people just people and I'm talking spouses
[01:05:13] how many people are just super open to being taught like if I was like let me teach you a little
[01:05:20] something you're in mean like that's that already starts off in a bad footing because it
[01:05:25] implies that I know something you don't know I can help you you're inferior to me you lack
[01:05:32] the spring knowledge that I have clearly I must instruct you that's key to quiz right
[01:05:44] it is offensive to my wife so do I sit around and you know trying teach my wife you know
[01:05:56] here's the deal here's the deal when we're dealing with our kids I absolutely do this now when
[01:06:03] I think about it you know I'll say to my wife hey listen oh the boys doing this and you're
[01:06:10] trying to do this don't do that all you're doing is you know it's oh he wants to get all crazy cool
[01:06:17] let's do this you're trying to combat I used to tell this when when the kids were really small
[01:06:22] because she's super nice and concerned and wants to make things right and wants to win arguments
[01:06:33] which when you're trying to win a logical argument with a four-year-old it doesn't work
[01:06:38] doesn't work and I say look you're arguing logic with a four-year-old so I think there's an appropriate
[01:06:43] time to do it you have to be careful that you're not trying to you know be the superior human
[01:06:49] yeah oh Mr. strategy want to teach me something about kids yeah so take it easy and all that being said
[01:06:58] I do have strategic conversations with my wife about the family team right like we're a business
[01:07:07] like your your house and your family is a business you have income you have expenditures you have
[01:07:14] long-term strategic goals so those kind of things we talk about and you know I'm the one that's sort
[01:07:19] of is usually saying hey what about this strategic goal what are you doing over here what do you
[01:07:23] want to do that so we have those conversations but not so much me saying how but me you know us
[01:07:31] figuring out what we're going together life this she ever like teach you how to be strategic in
[01:07:40] any way like be more sensitive or anything like that bro you serious no actually my the cool thing about
[01:07:53] my wife is she knows me really well and accepts those uphold deal she accepts the shortfall
[01:08:04] she knows that she got what she got she rolled a dice hey sorry yeah all right there you go
[01:08:14] next question can you share how someone that is introverted and has social anxiety can become a leader
[01:08:22] I mean first of all if you've got social anxiety you need to go through that exposure therapy
[01:08:28] which is what I wrote about in way the warrior kid that I didn't know I was writing about I didn't
[01:08:34] know as an actual psychological methodology until Jordan Peterson was explaining to me that well
[01:08:40] what you do is someone in the situations you give him small exposure it's like oh that's what
[01:08:43] happens in way the warrior kid you're smarter than I thought so you can do the same thing with this
[01:08:49] social anxiety you know you start talking from small groups you grow you get out hang out with
[01:08:52] people and you continue to do that until you get more comfortable so you can you can sort of over
[01:08:57] come that and it's the same thing with being introverted now there there are leaders that are
[01:09:07] more introverted but what you have to do is you have to bring people onto your team to complement
[01:09:16] that area where you're a little bit weak so if if you're a leader guess what you have to do you have
[01:09:24] to communicate to other human beings and sometimes you have to communicate to other human beings
[01:09:28] in large groups that's what happens that's what a leader does sure sometimes it can be on the
[01:09:33] phone sometimes it can be on email sometimes it can be in radio over the radio but there's times
[01:09:38] where you're going to have to communicate to the people that you're leading so if you're super introverted
[01:09:44] and uncomfortable with that and it's a challenge you're going to have to overcome that challenge yes
[01:09:50] you can get better at it through practice but some people are not going to ever get a really
[01:09:58] comfortable get some people are never going to get really comfortable talking in front of a group
[01:10:03] and so what what you do in that situation is you bring someone in your team that is really good at it
[01:10:10] and then when it's time to address the troops you you know you as the leader stand up and say
[01:10:16] here's the two things I'm worried about on this operation here's where we're heading and now
[01:10:22] Bill's going to brief you on the details of the plan and that's fine because Bill's allowed
[01:10:28] now if Bill's going to get up there and communicate really clearly and that's going to be great
[01:10:31] and you still gave enough as the figure head and as the leader of the organization that people
[01:10:37] go okay yep we heard from Jocco you know he put out the word he didn't say much
[01:10:41] doesn't even seem like he has to we we hear we's coming from so you just have to build a team
[01:10:46] that's going to compliment your weaknesses and you know generally if you're introverted well that
[01:10:51] means you're good at some other thing that that loudmouth isn't good at right the loudmouth is like
[01:10:56] who's going the front door kick it down and he doesn't have any sort of
[01:11:03] tactical sense of how to run an operation smoothly so you come up with a good plan and then you
[01:11:09] brief it's a bill loudmouth bill and then you say bill we're going to brief the troops and then
[01:11:14] you make it happen so you have to do a little bit of both you have to improve your personal skills
[01:11:19] which you can do through exposure and practice don't get up and talk about things that you don't
[01:11:25] know get up and talk about things that you do know that you're uncomfortable with and you practice
[01:11:31] and while you're practicing while you're getting better at that you also build a team where
[01:11:35] you compliment your own weaknesses and we all have leadership weaknesses and you got to build teams that
[01:11:40] can compliment that.
[01:11:46] A greedy.
[01:11:49] I'm glad. Next question. How can one guide or lead a leader above you especially when you're
[01:11:57] many links away on the chain of command or many links what down the chain of command?
[01:12:02] Oh so you want to guide a leader that's far away from you in the chain of command?
[01:12:13] Yeah. Yeah. You got a build relationship with that person. That's what you got to do.
[01:12:21] In fact, leadership is about building trust and building relationships with people and trust
[01:12:27] is leadership and leadership is trust and relationships are trust and relationships are leadership.
[01:12:32] These are like the trifecta of becoming a good leader. You build trust with people. You build relationships.
[01:12:39] And in a situation like this, if I have no if you and I don't know each other very well
[01:12:45] and I come up to you and say hey I think you should do this. I mean what's your reaction?
[01:12:49] But if you just approach someone that you don't have a relationship with and then you start
[01:12:52] telling them how to run things that's offensive, that's offensive to like most human beings.
[01:12:58] I have to get to know you. I have to see what kind of approach is going to work for you.
[01:13:04] Because you might be the kind of person if I know you a little bit we like you know I'm really
[01:13:07] working on my leadership. What do you think I could do better? That's great. Then we open the door
[01:13:10] or we can move forward. You might be the kind of person that I have to flank. You might be the kind of
[01:13:15] person that you won't listen to me but I say oh you should channel this book that I read or
[01:13:21] whatever. There's ways to do it. But to look at a target and know how you're going to attack the
[01:13:29] target without knowing anything about it, without having any intelligence on it, that's not going
[01:13:33] to be effective. So we have to actually gather some intelligence about the target. We have to and
[01:13:39] the way we do that is by building a relationship with. By getting to know that person. Once you know
[01:13:44] the person, then you can start to infuse and shift and mold and sculpt and influence the way that
[01:13:53] they lead. You have to build that relationship to kick things off. Next question. I'm not in the
[01:14:03] military nor am I a firefighter or law enforcement. I'm an air traffic controller here in the
[01:14:09] New York area. And I found myself in several leadership positions without within our union.
[01:14:17] Since I read extreme ownership, I've tried to implement this and the ideals that come with it. Overall,
[01:14:22] I believe it's been a success and of course still a work in progress. Specifically, the communication
[01:14:28] aspect of ensuring our people know why are we doing, why are we are doing something and how it
[01:14:34] affects them as it has been the biggest influence and game changer in my opinion. Union typically
[01:14:41] come hand in hand with what about me attitudes and we definitely have that within our ranks. This
[01:14:49] is something I've been trying to tackle with both new air controllers, new controllers and
[01:14:54] older ones and I think I'm making headways slowly but surely. Thanks to you and life. My question
[01:15:00] is this, have you ever had direct experience dealing with unions and this particular mindset?
[01:15:06] Is there any advice you can have specific to labor unions that could make this more efficient?
[01:15:13] Yeah, well we work with businesses all the time and we certainly work with businesses that are involved
[01:15:19] with or that either are unionized or partially unionized and yeah this is something that
[01:15:24] can be very, very common and the reason it can become very, very common is because the union
[01:15:33] is an organization and the company, the corporate, the headquarters is a separate organization.
[01:15:44] And so what happens is as we let these two elements grow, they tend to grow apart and they tend
[01:15:53] to start looking out for themselves and that becomes problematic. It becomes problematic and any
[01:16:00] organization where you've got the union on one side and what the union starts looking out for is
[01:16:04] what's good for them and what corporate is looking out for, what headquarters looking out for is
[01:16:09] what's good for them and what happens is we stop talking to each other and what we fail to realize
[01:16:15] is that both those entities have a common goal, they have a common goal and the more we work
[01:16:26] together to achieve that common goal, the better off both entities will be. So what this boils
[01:16:38] down to and the where I would focus step number one in this this is a long fight this is a long
[01:16:43] war is trying to make sure that the union side because you're talking about from your position
[01:16:51] in the union, the union side understands how working with corporate headquarters, how working
[01:17:01] with them will benefit the individuals in the union in the long run. So and a great book to read
[01:17:08] about this is that book I mentioned earlier with Mulalee American icon and what he told the
[01:17:15] unions was hey listen I get it you want your hourly wage to be $76 an hour you want to take care of
[01:17:24] the union that's awesome let me tell you what's going to happen in 18 months if we keep paying that
[01:17:30] we're not going to have a company anymore here's the numbers here's how it's going to work
[01:17:34] and they lower down their hourly rate to $55 now that's a huge cut and you can imagine
[01:17:42] the union thinking that's we lost we lost but Mulalee did a great job of saying no we lose if we
[01:17:51] don't come together we lose if we don't try and achieve our actual mission the mission that
[01:17:58] we're all focused on which is making great cars and being a profitable company so same thing here
[01:18:07] make sure that the areas that overlap the common mission make sure that everyone understands how
[01:18:13] achieving the common mission benefits both parties
[01:18:17] to access
[01:18:24] I've been a police officer if you have some long questions for echo Charles
[01:18:30] I mean I'm trying he's been studying him for four hours
[01:18:35] I've been a police officer for about four years I consider myself to be proactive
[01:18:42] and try to get after it every day much like many of my brother and sister law enforcement officers
[01:18:48] recently I switched to a bigger agency with a bit of a different mission I still try to be as proactive
[01:18:56] and as thorough as I can in everything that I do but I've noticed that many of the front-line
[01:19:02] supervisors in this agency want officers to be reactive rather than proactive
[01:19:07] the supervisor in particular has told me to stop working so hard and get salty
[01:19:16] suggesting that I lower my morale the question is how do I build a relationship with these
[01:19:22] supervisors while still being proactive and working hard so this is what I did
[01:19:29] when I got to see a team one I was this guy right here I was fired up
[01:19:39] I was hey oh we're doing an obstacle course today cool I'm gonna wear my rock sack with a 40
[01:19:45] pound sandbag in it and all the guys that were older were you know looking at me like dude
[01:19:50] pump breaks and you know of course what did I think those guys are are of course those guys are weak
[01:20:03] that's what I was thinking and then you know I thought to myself okay
[01:20:09] how can I how can I have influence over them how can I have influence over the
[01:20:14] Paltoon that I'm in can I have influence over the Paltoon that I'm in if everyone that's in my
[01:20:20] Paltoon doesn't like me no can you if everyone in my Paltoon doesn't like me because I'm super hard core
[01:20:34] then are they gonna steer it all in my direction no the answer's no the answer's no
[01:20:41] in fact they're gonna isolate me in fact I'm gonna have no influence over my Paltoon
[01:20:47] and that's that's a horrible thing so what did I do did I just go okay cool I
[01:20:52] could look like donuts is the deal no I didn't do that at all but I conformed
[01:21:02] right I conformed and people think oh that's weak you should conform look
[01:21:08] you are not the priority you as an individual are not the priority in a simple tune
[01:21:18] you're not the the priority is the Paltoon the priority is the mission
[01:21:26] and if we're gonna execute a mission we need to be very tight as a team so if I put my
[01:21:33] personality above the unity of the team I'm hurting our capability of accomplishing the mission
[01:21:42] especially if I realize that guys need to train a little bit harder and instead of actually
[01:21:48] doing something that's gonna move them in that direction they reject me and now I'm outside
[01:21:55] the the brotherhood of the circle and now I haven't moved them in any right direction and also
[01:22:00] now there's one guy that's in really good shape me and everyone else is going in the other
[01:22:06] direction and I have no influence over them that that's just terrible the mission is the most
[01:22:14] important thing in order to most effectively execute the mission we have to have the best possible
[01:22:20] team in order to have the best possible team we have to have trust and relationships inside the team
[01:22:26] if I violate that I'm taking away from the team I'm taking away from our mission capability
[01:22:36] now of course if there's someone that's grossly out of shape or out of standards yeah
[01:22:43] I'm gonna I'm gonna try and tighten that person up but again if someone's completely out of
[01:22:48] standards and all I do is attack them what's their reaction it's it's to step away from me to
[01:22:54] reject me but if I say hey man you know I know you got a lot of experience and you know I'm 19
[01:23:00] and I just got a bud so I'm pretty good shape but like can can you teach me some of the
[01:23:06] tactics that you know and all of a sudden I'm building a relationship with them and then I say hey
[01:23:14] you want to go for a little a little job with me after work and you know that guy's done eight
[01:23:19] deployments and he's tired and he's old but he wants to be back in shape because we all want to be
[01:23:23] in shape and he goes okay a short one and we're moving in the right direction so that's what you
[01:23:34] need to do you have to you have to back off a little bit you have to find balance and you have to
[01:23:41] focus on the team and it's better to have the whole team it's better to have 20 people that move
[01:23:48] a little bit in the right direction then have one person by themselves that's going on the right
[01:23:53] direction and everyone else is going on the wrong direction so that's what you need to do take the
[01:24:00] sandbag out of your rucksack a little bit and you know I ran with jungle boots on I did all this stuff
[01:24:06] and it didn't take me very long to realize I was not doing the right thing not making my team
[01:24:11] stronger I was isolating myself and stopped it so this guy he should like what start acting just a
[01:24:20] little bit salty or you know lower his morale appearance a little bit like to kind of fit in
[01:24:31] so to speak yeah do you want to be part of the team yeah if you're not part of the team you don't
[01:24:38] have any influence if you don't have any influence you can't move the team in the right direction
[01:24:44] if you can't move the team in the right direction the team is less mission capable that's what you're
[01:24:49] therefore yeah is to make the team more mission capable every moment that you don't do that you're
[01:24:55] doing something wrong so yes you don't have to show up I mean just imagine I was a new guy at
[01:25:03] Seethy-Mon people we show up to run the O course the O course is the O course is a really hard Opsco course
[01:25:09] and I show up with a rucksack on with a 40 pound sandbag in it as a new guy you know of course
[01:25:16] got people like that's fired up but people were like okay oh you're you're 19 years old
[01:25:26] and you just got out of Buds yeah whatever mix we don't like you so it's kind of like steering
[01:25:38] like a big van right you can't just start making big turns with the big otherwise the things
[01:25:43] gonna pin a tip over a little bit soon saying no you gotta like you can't if you gotta
[01:25:49] you gotta go slow as well I'm saying okay you guys understand anyway next question sure
[01:26:03] apparently apparently the van thing was a yeah it was correct that's a some of you
[01:26:09] that didn't understand it until we understood it was correct yeah it's exactly same thing
[01:26:14] outstanding anyway my wife and I have four young boys ages between ages three and seven
[01:26:20] we're both running successful busy careers my question is how do you forge a meaningful
[01:26:26] connected relationship that instills discipline and leadership with your kids while balancing
[01:26:31] today's demanding 24-7 corporate environment here's a couple of things make time you have to make
[01:26:40] time you have to make time where you're not looking at your phone you're not looking at your emails
[01:26:46] you have to set a good example and and I think the most important thing here for kids aged three to
[01:26:52] seven you have to make sure that they understand that what you're what you're doing and why you're
[01:26:59] doing it they have to understand look you know this house we live in we have to pay money for this
[01:27:05] house that we live in you know the food that we we have to pay money for that and in order for us to
[01:27:10] have a secure future where we can still have a house and we can still have food we need to make sure
[01:27:16] that we have money for the future that's why mom and dad work so hard it doesn't mean that we
[01:27:22] wouldn't love to sit around and play with you guys all day we would love to do that and every
[01:27:26] chance we'd get we're gonna do it but we have to be able to pay for the things we have and we
[01:27:32] have to be able to pay for our future and that's why we're working so hard right now so we can have
[01:27:37] more freedom and more time with you in the future so they have to understand why you're doing what
[01:27:43] you're doing and I'll add this so do you so do you you have to assess why you are working
[01:27:56] so much that you're taking time away from your family if you're working so much and taking time
[01:28:03] away from your family so that you can get the Mercedes S class instead of the Lexus
[01:28:13] ask yourself is that why you're doing it and what has more value the S class or the dance recital
[01:28:23] keep yourself in check yeah makes sense to any kind of got to tell the truth to yourself
[01:28:33] because you know like you could answer the email later or add another time not dinner time or whatever
[01:28:40] you know you can a got to be truthful that's what I found anyway helps that's why you don't
[01:28:46] return my emails on time next question was there time during your service in the teams that stood
[01:28:56] out above the rest and would you mind sharing a brief story not before heard on your podcast
[01:29:02] well obviously the time in the teams was being in task in a bruiser being in the battle or
[01:29:06] moddy that's pretty straightforward something that I haven't I don't think I've talked about on the
[01:29:14] podcast but it it definitely is something that I remember very clearly and that is when
[01:29:26] when seal team five came in to take over for us and so this was in October of 2006 and
[01:29:35] seal team five a task unit from seal team five came in to take over for us and we're doing the turn
[01:29:41] over with them meaning we're explaining to them the battle space and it takes a couple days for
[01:29:49] all of them to arrive they arrive in bits and pieces and so we're doing the turnover but once they were
[01:29:57] all there I did a turnover brief with them the whole group and as a matter of fact Marcus LaTrelle
[01:30:08] was in this group and this was after he had gone through what he'd gone through in him you know I just
[01:30:16] saw Marcus the other day and we were talking about this I couldn't believe he was in her body
[01:30:22] after what he'd went through and this was not long after there he was in her body as a
[01:30:28] platoon leading pedi officer and it was his group of guys and I remember one thing I just I just
[01:30:37] remember was looking at them and I was telling them you are going to take casualties and
[01:30:52] that it's sort of like that thing you see in the movies or I've talked about it reddit and books
[01:30:58] about Vietnam where you had guys that were coming in country and they got new camouflage uniforms
[01:31:04] on and they're all clean cut and there's the guys that are getting ready to go home and
[01:31:12] those guys at that time seals deploying into a situation you seals deploying the situation
[01:31:21] there are kind of unknown at least up until this point it was like okay well we're going
[01:31:25] to do missions we don't know how bad it's going to be it might be bad it might not be that's
[01:31:29] sort of was the standard those guys that were coming into a body that relieved us from body
[01:31:34] they knew and the senior enlisted guys are one of my very good friends those guys knew 100
[01:31:39] percent they went to Mike Montsource and then got on a plane and came over they knew 100 percent
[01:31:44] and so for me I won't forget looking at this group of guys that were about to start a six
[01:31:51] month appointment and telling them you are going to take casualties and that was just a blunt
[01:32:00] honest truth and they did take casualties they didn't lose anyone they had no one killed but they
[01:32:06] took some very very severe casualties and did a great job a great group of guys but
[01:32:14] that was a harsh reality to walk into for sure
[01:32:16] Roger I would do one more of these questions before the life questions will go live people
[01:32:30] what was your first combat mission and what was your role so 2003 I deployed to Baghdad as a
[01:32:42] seal-potent commander and the senior enlisted guy of my task unit was already in Baghdad
[01:32:51] waiting for us and this guy is an incredible guy just as a matter of fact his wife
[01:33:01] tells him and me that we're soulmates she jealous but anyways this guy just a incredible guy
[01:33:10] but he had been on the ground for a while and he'd done the push-up into Baghdad with the
[01:33:17] Marines and then he'd come home and then he was back over and so he was waiting for us and he was
[01:33:23] and was my opportunity we show up and I remember we hit the ground we I don't even know how long
[01:33:28] we'd been there but it wasn't long it might have been like the night we got there and
[01:33:33] there was moreder teams that were more green our base and they had been for a few days
[01:33:43] and so this guy a couple of mortars went I think anyways whatever happened he comes in like
[01:33:53] you're taking your guys out right now you gotta take your guys out and go and see if you can find
[01:33:56] you know where these things launched from and I was I was sort of not ready for that you know we
[01:34:08] been there for four hours you're taking your guys out and I'm you know what I said
[01:34:13] Roger that and you know I talked to him later like later that night he goes yeah let's just
[01:34:19] try to get you outside the wire and get some and I was like how about you give me a heads up next time
[01:34:23] so that was it I was just running that little vehicle thing and we went out look for bad guys we
[01:34:29] didn't find any and came home but that was the first kind of exposure outside the wire
[01:34:34] and back that not a very exciting story sorry there we go all right so we got some folks running
[01:34:43] around with microphones and does anyone have a is anyone having any questions okay let's see a
[01:34:51] couple hands anyways I'm gonna take this thing off so I can sort of move around and see you
[01:34:55] and our mic people I'll point to you and we'll find somebody all right let's go you right there
[01:35:01] black sweatshirt I was just trying to get him to call on me but he wouldn't wait until he took
[01:35:06] your order so you got a good team here so you were talking about childbearing before
[01:35:14] so not me personally but no you had to you were cornered um any thoughts about having a child
[01:35:23] free-ring book come out like a team childbearing book you mean how to raise kids well yeah
[01:35:32] childbearing yeah um I mean maybe not maybe this is a bad idea no no no I'll tell you what
[01:35:41] there I wrote a couple books one's called Way The Warrior Kid and one one's called Marks Mission
[01:35:46] I read them okay yeah I mean the the amount of people that have come back to me and said like
[01:35:53] as a dad as a mom thank you for writing this book because every time I read it I've learned now
[01:36:01] that means that I'm basically saying hey you need to learn you need to pull
[01:36:07] parts of the lessons out of here so perhaps I could be making more straightforward and also
[01:36:16] hey as I'm though perfect parent by any stretch but one thing that's good about putting the
[01:36:22] ideas on paper is I would start to clarify things myself and you start looking at I would start
[01:36:27] looking at mistakes that I made and say okay here's a clear mistake I didn't really recognize it
[01:36:32] before but now that I'm detached I'm looking back at it so yeah not a bad idea yeah fine
[01:36:37] answer is everything just how to discuss with your kids like all of these things are really
[01:36:42] important topics and I think the extreme ownership perspective could be a great addition awesome
[01:36:48] thank you all by you question over here you
[01:36:56] he's leaving it I like to come prepared good evening jockel good evening
[01:37:02] what lesson do you wish you'd have learned earlier in life that you now know
[01:37:17] it is disciplinical freedom I mean that is the thing that that when I connected that together
[01:37:23] in my head that that the fact that that applies to absolutely everything that's the biggest lesson
[01:37:30] that I wish I would have learned earlier in life and if I would have figured that out then
[01:37:37] I would have been doing a lot better and I would have done a lot better and I would have been a lot
[01:37:41] better of a person the thing that I try to tell kids I try to tell them that for sure the other
[01:37:48] thing that I think kids miss is kids and I miss is something that I completely missed as a kid
[01:37:55] the actions that you take now affect your future that sounds so obvious but when you're 14
[01:38:04] you just think no nothing I you know my life is only another 20 minutes so what I'm doing right now
[01:38:10] doesn't really matter so when I talk to kids I try and explain to them the discipline
[01:38:14] of freedom and then I try to explain to them that what you're doing right now
[01:38:18] really will have an impact to where you are in the future and I don't know if you listen to that
[01:38:25] podcast that I did the Warrior Kid podcast that I did number 19 about my friend Jeff
[01:38:31] and I talked about it on the adult podcast as well but you know it's a classic story I had a
[01:38:38] best friend when I was little and we separated friendship not we were still friends but we
[01:38:44] drifted apart he started getting into partying and getting into drugs and all that and I
[01:38:49] didn't and his trajectory in life just went down and I joined the Navy which was great and it
[01:38:56] put me on a good path almost involuntarily but he ended up he ended up killing himself
[01:39:03] and you know it was drugs and it was alcohol and it was just bad but while I was going through
[01:39:08] buds he killed himself and what I tried to explain to the kids on the Warrior Kid podcast is like
[01:39:13] the decisions that the little decisions that you make they matter they add up and you have to
[01:39:21] connect those dots otherwise you don't know where you're going to end up and it might be bad
[01:39:28] cool got your hand up quick bro good job I doing hi doing jacco so first I want to say thank you
[01:39:36] for being here and continuing to inspire us all I really appreciate it so little backstory I'm
[01:39:43] currently a detective and a police department in New Jersey and sitting number one on the
[01:39:47] sergeant's list looking to get promoted about marcher April so my question is I'm going to be
[01:39:54] the youngest sergeant in the department and not with a lot of experience now I've never had an issue
[01:40:00] into the department doing pretty well and as soon as that list came out and I was number one
[01:40:07] detention just rose I mean look at this kid less than five years on the job you know in his
[01:40:13] twenties and they already want to see me fail before I even got to the position so I'm trying
[01:40:20] to mentally prepare myself in that role when I already know that it's coming against me so what's
[01:40:27] your best advice for someone that is going to be you know in this position of see I was looking
[01:40:32] every position as a leadership position but now structurally I'm going to be their supervisor
[01:40:38] so what's your best advice to to me going into that situation yeah this is the same exact situation
[01:40:44] that military officers get put into military officers in the seal themes in the Marine Corps and
[01:40:50] the army and the navy your kid that comes out of college you have zero experience and you get
[01:40:56] put in charge of a department on a ship or you get put in charge of a puttune and all the sudden
[01:41:01] you're a guy with zero experience and you got a puttune chief that's been in for 16 years that's
[01:41:07] that's the way it works and so I've had to have this conversation over and over again and what we're
[01:41:13] going to do is number one we're not going to act like we know everything even if you do know more even
[01:41:19] if you have things more figured out than these guys if you go in there and act like it guess what they're
[01:41:24] going to do they're going to reject you who is this young whipper snapper young buck thinks he knows
[01:41:29] everything he doesn't know about this he doesn't know about that they'll sabotage you to make
[01:41:33] you look bad but if you go in there in your humble I'm not talking about being a pushover
[01:41:38] I'm not talking about being weak but I'm going to lean towards being humble I'm going to lean
[01:41:44] towards listening to what they have to say I'm going to lean towards saying hey you know I've never
[01:41:49] handled a case like this before you have any perspective you can help me out with this instead of
[01:41:54] hey this case is mine let me show you how it's going to be that right there you're taking a relationship
[01:41:59] in a negative direction we want to we want to we want to build a team and we want them to we want
[01:42:04] to get their respect how do we how do we get their respect we get we actually get respect
[01:42:09] this crazy sound we get respect by by being humble so if echo if echo is working for me I show
[01:42:17] up he's more experienced than me and I show up and I say all right here's what we're doing here's how
[01:42:21] we're doing this mission here's how it's going to be my way and I think he knows what's up now
[01:42:26] he knows he's on the boss what's he actually thinking who's this idiot that's had the job for
[01:42:35] three days and he thinks he's going to tell me what to do and he's going to he's going to resist it
[01:42:40] he's going to sabotage he's going to and we're going to have a bad relationship but if I come
[01:42:45] in and say hey echo really great to meet you you know I'm just checking in here I was looking
[01:42:50] at your I was checking out your your record you've been here for a long time man you really nailed
[01:42:54] some big cases that's awesome I'm looking forward to working with you I'm looking forward to
[01:42:58] learning a lot from you and boom what's his attitude towards me now hey this kids pretty humble
[01:43:05] again I'm not coming in saying I don't know anything can you please you know show me the way oh master
[01:43:12] no I'm not talking about that but just a nice respectful humble way of treating people
[01:43:17] study shop earlier than they do know the nomenclature that you're supposed to know
[01:43:22] ask good questions listen to the feedback and here I've talked about this from the podcast
[01:43:28] if he comes up with a plan and I think I have a better plan but he's got a plan that's
[01:43:32] that's pretty solid who's plan am I going to pick I'm going to pick his plan I'm not going to force
[01:43:39] my plan down his throat it makes our relationship go backwards it makes him think that he needs to
[01:43:46] compete with me I don't want to go up the echo this is your plan you come up with it you make it happen
[01:43:50] echo always jokes me he's like I know you do this stuff to me and he's like and it still works
[01:44:00] and I do you know I do it's like hey if he can come up with a plan I would rather we execute his plan
[01:44:07] because then he cares more about it it is so stay humble listen work hard
[01:44:15] get pretty cheap thanks for your service brother thank you front row shot it up quick right here
[01:44:24] you got that thing up quick a game first fall juggle thank you for being out here
[01:44:30] in New York it's great to finally see you live I just want to give you respect to your
[01:44:34] reliability elaborated some on communicating as a family you said you're going to put some
[01:44:38] work on set out regarding that stuff hold on second bro my hearing's not great slow down hit
[01:44:43] it with me again all right quick and simple a top three rules on raising kids from ages three to
[01:44:51] nine really getting that sort of attitude and still while they're still young so not about the
[01:44:56] family like dynamic not about managing just the kids attitude yeah it's with kids first of all you
[01:45:02] got to remember this is the hardest thing for parents to deal with is your kid is not going to be
[01:45:10] who you want them to be they're just not they're humans and they have their if that was the
[01:45:18] truth all of my kids would be the same type of kid and they would all you know you could just
[01:45:24] here's what they all do they're not they're not your kids are going to be different and your
[01:45:29] kids are going to be different from you they might be a little bit better than you at some things they
[01:45:32] might be worse than you do other things so what you have to do is first of all get that idea out of
[01:45:38] your head that being said you can definitely provide guidance and you can definitely put
[01:45:47] them in guide them in the right direction but what you don't want to do is make every decision
[01:45:55] for them what you don't want to do is only let them do what you tell them to do they've got
[01:46:01] to learn to make decisions otherwise they can't go into the world and defend for themselves
[01:46:05] they've got a suffer consequences of their bad decisions otherwise they can't defend for themselves
[01:46:09] in the world so you have to set this before you have to you have to like let them brush up
[01:46:16] against the guardrails of failure you have to let them tie their on you you have to let them spill
[01:46:19] the milk and the more you make or allow them to do for themselves the better human beings they're
[01:46:32] going to be the more that you do for them and force on them and impose on them the less they're
[01:46:40] going to know for themselves and the more they're going to rebel against the values that you're
[01:46:48] putting forth to them again it's a dichotomy and I'm not saying hey like your kids do whatever
[01:46:52] whatever they want when they go outside that box is given a nice pick box when they go outside of
[01:46:58] that you've got to bring them back in and you've got to explain to them why you're bringing them back in
[01:47:02] they got to understand that there's the reason they're not allowed to play in this area is because
[01:47:08] there's bad people there or there's danger there it's not just because I said so so you develop
[01:47:14] these relationships with your kid you guide them but you don't direct them and you let them
[01:47:20] be as much of a leader as they can be and that's the best thing you can do for them.
[01:47:28] Thank you can I add one more thing to to that which actually jockel opened my eyes to this and it like
[01:47:37] like your kids are always watching you like always what so if you're yelling at mom or yelling
[01:47:42] that people on the phone or I don't know doing stuff you're doing stuff that you don't want them to
[01:47:47] do you can say hey don't do this they'll be like cool but once they kind of get the opportunity they're
[01:47:51] like I guess this is kind of how because that does it especially with the yelling thing and
[01:47:56] losing like how do you do it stress and stuff that's brother they'll jump right on that that's what
[01:48:02] I really noticed when actually when he opened my eyes to it I was like ah okay you know when
[01:48:06] you know sometimes you get kids or your kids how many kids you have oh okay all right
[01:48:14] well you're planning ahead okay all right there you go keep this in mind then because a lot of the
[01:48:19] terms you're like all your three year old or you be like dang where did they how did they pick that up
[01:48:24] I didn't teach him that and the thing is you probably will have taught him that just by doing it on
[01:48:30] your own you know yeah so they're always watching you so that helped me I think a lot
[01:48:36] tight to kids but tighten your game up a little bit around the kids let's see really tall hand
[01:48:46] back there you thank you so a very specific example then my son he's three I would love for
[01:48:55] him to get into Brazilian jujitsu just like me which I also got into thanks to you two gentlemen thank
[01:49:00] you very much so how do I encourage him without pushing him without you know just getting him
[01:49:07] into it really you have to make it fun you have to make it fun and it is much better for it to
[01:49:15] be fun once a week then for them to hate it three times a week the kid that hates it three times
[01:49:23] a week and you think I'm doing it my favorite I'm doing her a favorite because I got her in their
[01:49:27] web she likes it or not she's three years old bro the best possible thing you can do is not make
[01:49:38] them train jujitsu right now it's make them enjoy jujitsu right now I did not do this well with my kids
[01:49:47] I didn't it's horrible when my when my especially my daughters my daughter when they were very young
[01:49:54] it was jujitsu jujitsu jujitsu we were doing they were doing jujitsu six days a week
[01:50:05] they were like six and that was that was that was part of it let me tell you what I did
[01:50:13] that's worse what what's worse is I was like okay you're also going to compete because
[01:50:19] competing makes you better and it gets worse because then it was oh when I take you to compete
[01:50:25] since I'm the coach I'm going to put you in a higher weight class I'm going to put you against
[01:50:33] older kids and you know what if you lose look if you lose it doesn't matter because you're
[01:50:41] going to be tougher so so just go out there do your best if you lose don't worry about it's
[01:50:46] going to make you tougher so my daughters go to compete in jujitsu tournament jujitsu tournament
[01:50:52] what happens to them they get beat they get beat by someone that's older they get beat by someone
[01:50:58] that's heavier is that fun that sucks what do I think what is idiot think oh you're getting tougher
[01:51:09] and so by the time they were 10 it was like I don't want to do any of this crap anymore and
[01:51:18] it got to a point when I was like okay look this is ridiculous I realized the mistake that I
[01:51:24] made and I just had to back off and luckily my son made it through that time period where he
[01:51:31] he kept training all the time and became very good at jujitsu and wrestling but
[01:51:38] with the girls I I didn't do it right so find a good school where the jujitsu is fun
[01:51:48] don't force it down there throw it let me tell you one more really quick story my son had a friend
[01:51:53] who was like you know his run in me and when he was six years old I said yeah we'll bring
[01:51:59] your son to jujitsu let him try it he tried it at six years old he didn't like he tried it one time
[01:52:03] I'm like it got chill in the crime he tried it at age seven hey we tried it again didn't like it
[01:52:10] hated it tried it at age eight didn't like it hated it age nine has dad trained his dad
[01:52:16] had started training his he kind of got to look at like oh that's pretty cool by the time he was
[01:52:21] nine and he tried it he liked it and he liked it because he liked it and he was then old enough
[01:52:27] to make the decision want to train and started training hard and he got good really quick
[01:52:32] it it wasn't like oh he missed those four years of training they didn't make a big difference
[01:52:38] is my point they don't make a big difference so the most important thing you can do as a parent
[01:52:44] is make it fun for your kids make working out fun make jujitsu fun make school fun make these things
[01:52:53] enjoyable make let them win you know put them in positions where they're gonna win and I'm not
[01:52:58] saying every time because you do have to learn how to lose let them learn to lose when they occasionally
[01:53:03] let them learn to lose when they get a loulder but make it fun for them that's the key
[01:53:13] I'm gonna eventually get balcony up there but I guess ju in the back go
[01:53:19] jaco my questions on the other end of the spectrum for the police officer I'm a battalion chief in
[01:53:26] the fire department 28 years on the department how do I relate to the 19 year old can you really
[01:53:34] a story that you worked with a 19 year old new seal and you're trying to get what to happen I
[01:53:41] wanted to develop that relationship with them you talked about the relationship above me as a
[01:53:46] leader how do I develop that relationship for the newer people below me the best way okay when we
[01:53:53] start talking about relationships and I I mentioned this earlier what a relationship is as a relationship
[01:53:57] is trust and that's what a team is a team is a bunch of people the relationship that all trust each
[01:54:02] other how do I develop trust with someone that's below me in the chain of command what I did this is
[01:54:08] what I did to make this happen as a platoon commander as a task unit commander as I was in charge
[01:54:13] of training is those young guys that are coming in I gave them responsibility I put them in leadership
[01:54:21] positions I remember the first time I took over a platoon with a platoon commander got fired
[01:54:26] and we had a training operation that night and I said I said a platoon chief I said hey who's like a
[01:54:33] a square away jute really junior guy and he gave me a name and I said okay he's gonna run this mission
[01:54:37] tonight and the platoon is like whoa wait what are you talking about this kid's gonna run the mission yep
[01:54:42] and all of a sudden what's the kid thinking wow this guy trusts me to do this I'm gonna do a
[01:54:50] good job for him and since he trusts me I'm starting to trust him and the more you do that the
[01:54:59] more you push down that responsibility and you let people lead and you put trust into them the
[01:55:04] more they're gonna trust you as long as when something does go wrong you don't chop their head off
[01:55:12] when something does go wrong you say hey look let's let's take a look at it let's see we can learn
[01:55:16] from it and you know what probably my fault because I didn't give you very good guidance
[01:55:21] so let's learn from it and we'll try it again you know what you're gonna run the same
[01:55:25] mission tomorrow night I know you can do this that's how you build that trust up that's how you build a team
[01:55:31] hand came up quick right there it's amazing that you can tell the one pointing out
[01:55:43] jaco echo thank you for everything that he's given us
[01:55:48] acknowledging that we all have secrets jaco what would you need to see happen that would change
[01:55:56] your mind about a run at public office what let me finish what would be that sugar event to make you say
[01:56:07] okay public office stand by to get some
[01:56:11] I'll finish when sake white frankly you have a nation of troopers both foreign and domestic
[01:56:27] that believe and know that you're qualified to lead and ready to lend their support
[01:56:32] um what would it take there is a line somewhere there is a line somewhere where where I would
[01:56:49] feel like okay the you know the country needs me it's it's a pretty distant line it's it's
[01:57:01] that world is so I don't want to use the word corrupt but but but because that's not what I'm talking
[01:57:20] I'm not talking about like that kind of corruption and there's corruption for sure but you know you
[01:57:24] compare the corruption that we have to the rest of the world and it's very nice but there's a different
[01:57:30] word that I can't quite capture there's there's dishonesty there's I don't mind the chaos
[01:57:39] um some selfishness um here's what it is I think in order I like I like when things go wrong
[01:58:00] I know that sounds crazy but one of my biggest problems is that I get when things are going
[01:58:07] good I get really bored pretty quickly and I just like oh yeah that's cool oh we hey the business
[01:58:13] is doing this like my business like hey we're doing this and I'm like oh that's awesome we're
[01:58:16] going right there we're cool what can I look at next like I get I get kind of bored when things are
[01:58:22] going well and when things are going bad I love it I really like when things are going bad and so
[01:58:32] in the government things don't get that bad and for me to put my time and effort towards
[01:58:42] something all that you know it's really focused I would get bored very quickly because you know
[01:58:47] to be like hey you know what we're not doing too bad and so until there's something bad
[01:58:55] that I feel like okay it's time that's kind of what would would make me roll in that direction
[01:59:01] it seems like a miserable life to me it seems like a miserable life it seems like a life where
[01:59:09] you're constantly putting up a facade and I don't have the desire to do that you know I never
[01:59:15] got interested in going into the CIA or anything like that because I never wanted to live
[01:59:22] that kind of life and it does I'm not saying it's bad I mean the guys work with them and they're
[01:59:26] awesome but it's just not me and I don't like to live that way and it seems like there's a lot of that
[01:59:33] except the fact that if we got into a position as a nation where things were really bad and we needed
[01:59:42] some we needed to take action then I feel like I would step into it but man I hope we don't get
[01:59:50] there let me put you that way I hope we don't get there and I don't think we will but I appreciate
[01:59:55] that's not porch and I'm sorry red jacket first off thank you for everything you do and then
[02:00:08] my question is who are your role models growing up and like what qualities do they have
[02:00:12] well my first legitimate role models that I looked at instead okay that's a person that I can emulate
[02:00:24] that was when I got to the seal teams up to that point I was looking I was a confused kid that was
[02:00:30] looking at this you know this person and that person but I didn't really but even though even I
[02:00:36] wasn't confused enough to be like all I'm going to be like that person and follow what they're doing
[02:00:39] I would look at people like that seems pretty cool that seems pretty cool and so it wasn't till I got
[02:00:44] into the seal teams and there were some people that you instantly when I checked into the seal team
[02:00:49] one I'm like that guy's awesome I'm gonna that person right there is awesome I'm gonna do my
[02:00:54] best to emulate that person and there was probably five or seven people at seal team one when I got
[02:01:01] there that I stole as much as I could in terms of how to behave and and that was it you know
[02:01:09] a guy named Master G faculty who was super just ultra professional and everything and I was like
[02:01:14] he's so professional no one can say anything to him he's a professional like I'm going to
[02:01:21] I'm going to be like that there was a couple other there was other guys that unfortunately
[02:01:27] Master G faculty died so I'm using his name but other guys that I just looked at and said wow that
[02:01:33] guy's awesome so I didn't really have like those kind of role models until I got to the teams you know
[02:01:43] okay balcony is there anyone on the balcony microphone style right there up in the cheap seats
[02:01:51] Jaco echo thank you for your podcast Jaco thank you for the work that you you work with Jaco
[02:02:04] and didn't podcast also thank you to the men and women of the service president's future in past
[02:02:10] I come from a corporate environment working doing IT support now my recent role was where I was
[02:02:16] responsible for supporting 40 to 80 people pretty much solo and with that I had a manager remote
[02:02:22] you know I had a good work in relationship with him he's former military so he would tell me do
[02:02:27] certain things within the environment which I would do but then his manager would come down and visit
[02:02:32] and sometimes give me contradicting situations or orders so what do you do when you have your
[02:02:39] boss telling you one thing his boss your boss direct response report telling you do something
[02:02:44] contradictory yep the pretty straightforward if my boss's boss comes to me and tells me to do
[02:02:50] something I'm like hey I just want to make sure that you know that this is what I've been told to do
[02:02:54] and then they say yeah I don't care what that guy says and you go okay Roger that and then he leaves
[02:02:59] you go hey direct boss here's what's going on boss came down and told me to do this I'm here
[02:03:05] I work for you you're my boss and I want to tell you what's going on do you want me to proceed
[02:03:10] or do you want me to stop I want to keep you informed here's why I want to I want to do the right
[02:03:17] thing and this is what's going on so just take the information from the boss the the boss is boss
[02:03:24] got it have you told you know my boss that nope don't care okay you don't care fine hey boss
[02:03:32] your boss is telling me to do this I want to let you know it's going on it's obviously a
[02:03:36] a tenuous situation because then this guy up above the higher guy in the chain of command
[02:03:43] I'm like oh this you didn't do what I told you to do hey look I'm just trying to make sure everyone's
[02:03:47] informed and and that's the way that's the way things run smoothest if everyone's informed I'm
[02:03:53] here to support can you guys talk to each other so I know what I'm supposed to be doing down here
[02:03:59] you you got to kind of be the person that that connects the dots here to the best of your ability
[02:04:09] no problem all right let's say you're in an organization and you really want to see it succeed
[02:04:14] but it's being led by someone who is not only steering it in the wrong direction they're doing it deliberately
[02:04:22] and you're not really sure if you can negotiate with them what would your course
[02:04:26] my course of action if there's someone above me in the chain of command that's steering us in the wrong
[02:04:33] direction I'm going to do my best to influence and persuade them if I can't do that I'm going to do
[02:04:38] the best to mitigate the risk down the chain of command and the strategic risk I'm going to do my best to
[02:04:43] mitigate it and while I'm doing that I'm going to try and inform the other people around that person
[02:04:50] of the situation that's going on I'm going to build relationships with the CEO with the CEO with the
[02:04:57] CEO with the CEO you're talking about or if it's the batissio whoever it is I'm going to build some
[02:05:03] relationships with other people so we can get that person under control the other thing we have to
[02:05:08] remember is sometimes at the bottom we don't understand what the real strategy is and so my first
[02:05:16] thing is like hey boss can you explain to me why we're doing this because I it doesn't seem right to me
[02:05:20] for the following reasons I want to be able to support what you're saying can you tell me why we're doing it
[02:05:24] this way so sometimes they say oh yeah it's because of this I should explain that sometimes they say
[02:05:28] wait a second what do you mean my strategy is not working down on the front lines they don't know
[02:05:33] no one's telling them so you have to communicate with them to make sure that that they understand
[02:05:40] to make sure that you understand what direction you're supposed to be heading and to make sure that
[02:05:44] they understand why it's problematic on the front lines if all of that fails and they're just
[02:05:49] looking the telling you to be quiet and they're moving forward in something that's going to
[02:05:53] really be detrimental to the organization we got to start trying to figure out how to flank that
[02:05:57] person and and building a a alliances with people that can try and get us going in the right way
[02:06:05] thank you and of course there's you know there's situations where you know especially in the
[02:06:11] business environment like if you're in a ship and the ship is sinking and you've sounded the
[02:06:15] alarm and you've tried to you've tried to plug the holes and you've told everyone and they're still
[02:06:21] just staying on board the sinking ship without making any corrections there are times we got to
[02:06:25] go you know what this ship is sinking and I'm not going to stay on it that can happen we can't you can't
[02:06:32] save every sinking ship you can't and you got to know when it's time to go okay I'm going to take the
[02:06:37] lessons learned I'm going to go somewhere else thank you yes first I want to thank you because I am a
[02:06:46] stage four cancer survivor and
[02:06:53] and in my darkest hours that a lot of people can't comprehend you were there with me your voice
[02:07:08] your everything still to this day I mean this planet equals freedom is a common phrase in my family
[02:07:15] over the most monumental to the most ridiculous things like letting the dog out at the same time you know
[02:07:20] so I want to thank you for that with that being said I have at one point planned my own funeral
[02:07:28] didn't think I was going to be here for my kids you know the worst part of anybody's dreams you
[02:07:34] know nightmares and then to be at the place where I am right now and not knowing obviously I'm
[02:07:41] young and you know what the future holds the nobody's naive how you've been in those similar positions
[02:07:48] just not health wise but you know facing death and everything else how do you switch from that
[02:07:54] mindset of like you said when things are going really bad I'm freaking awesome like I kick ass like I
[02:08:01] really do and then when things are kind of calm I'm like what do I do now like how am I going to
[02:08:07] you know even when you were just saying like your last line sometimes I think like you just speak to me it's
[02:08:11] so creepy that like my last cameo was Friday I shouldn't be well today but I am because I knew I
[02:08:20] had to be here you know so it's like stuff like that and then when you said that you know at the end
[02:08:34] of your podcast that you know I'm going to live life I'm going to live my days how did you get from that
[02:08:40] transition from you know possibly I don't know if I'm going to come out of this battle I don't know
[02:08:45] if I'm going to come home to okay I'm here life speaking great let's party and then in between like
[02:08:52] did you have any like how did you do how did you get from the darkest places to the brightest places
[02:08:59] and then bring everything my problem is is I want to bring I've learned my lesson like I've
[02:09:04] learned what I had to have learned now and now to bring it forward with me but not to let it define me
[02:09:11] if that makes sense for me and and I actually gave this answer to Sam Harris because Sam Harris said to me
[02:09:24] you know Joko you you you you talk about combat as your fondest memories and it you know the
[02:09:35] the best thing that's happened in your life it's the hype on your life which is all true and he said but
[02:09:40] then you talk about war being awful so which one is it and I said to him I said have you ever known
[02:09:51] anyone that has had cancer terminal cancer and made it through have you ever known anyone that that's
[02:10:01] happened to and he's like yes and I said when you talk to them many times they say I'm glad that this
[02:10:10] happened to me number one because it proved I could take it number two it's better me than one of my
[02:10:18] kids and number three now that I know how dark he can get I truly appreciate the light in the world
[02:10:34] that's what combat is and was for me that's what it was it was dark and horrible and I wouldn't
[02:10:44] wish on anyone just like you wouldn't wish cancer on anyone but if I can give them a little
[02:10:54] knowledge a little bit of a glimpse into what it is just like when you stand up here people
[02:11:02] clap when you said that people are clapping because they get to see a little bit of it and they go home
[02:11:09] tonight and they think what about that girl what about that girl she's fighting she's living
[02:11:23] and I'm gonna live too
[02:11:25] maybe that's why I had to have cancer that's how I look at things now I don't pretend to have the cognitive
[02:11:38] capacity to comprehend the mysteries of the world but maybe you're right and maybe you're here
[02:11:50] to let us know that it can get dark but it will get light again absolutely and thank you
[02:12:01] awesome
[02:12:09] awesome
[02:12:13] yes
[02:12:21] hey Jaco thanks for being here I've been in the army for three years now and for the past year I've
[02:12:28] been thinking about putting in a packet for special forces selection so I guess I just wanted
[02:12:34] to ask you to talk a little bit about when you joined the seal teams and what did you do to
[02:12:40] physically and mentally prepare yourself and generally why did you why did you decide to join
[02:12:48] man I wanted to do that since I was a little kid when I heard that this I heard that the seals
[02:12:53] was the toughest training and that's not the necessarily true thing all the training is hard there's
[02:13:01] the special forces the the marsawc units the raiders the air force PJs and CCCs it it
[02:13:08] it's everyone's got their awesome special operations units and the training is all hard and
[02:13:14] all for when I heard the seals the toughest training is okay that's what I want to do
[02:13:18] what do you do to get ready for you know what you got to do to get ready for you know army
[02:13:22] guess what you're going to be humpin' a rock you're going to be doing force marches you got to be
[02:13:25] over the run you got to build a nav you got to be able to do push ups and pull ups and and dips
[02:13:29] and rope crimes and offscores that's what you got to do you got to train hard you got to train
[02:13:34] as hard as you possibly can and then you have to tell yourself that you're not going to quit no
[02:13:42] matter what happens no matter what happens you're not going to quit no matter what happens
[02:13:52] because they're going to play a little psychological games on you like like let's say they go
[02:13:56] all he's in good shape he's you know we can't really touch him physically he's in really good shape
[02:14:00] so now you know what they're going to do they're going to say oh you know you failed this academic test
[02:14:06] you're not smart you're not really smart enough I mean you seem like a good guy but you're not
[02:14:10] really smart enough you're the kind of you're the kind of person that will get someone killed
[02:14:13] you're going to make a mistake you're going to start attacking you psychologically or if you're
[02:14:17] psychologically strong but you're physically weak they're going to be like hey you're the kind of
[02:14:21] person that won't be on the carry me out combat we don't want you they're just saying that don't quit
[02:14:33] that's it don't quit go get some all right um
[02:14:45] thank one more yeah we're looking I want to have some time to hang out sign books we got to be out
[02:14:52] here by 11 so we're getting close go ahead man front row
[02:15:05] Jacko thank you for speaking tonight just a quick question I've I work in a corporation here in
[02:15:10] New York and one of the toughest things with being an analyst here is just the fact of like when you actually
[02:15:15] escalate or you know which which kind of feels like defeat but also at the same time you want to
[02:15:20] make sure you live in somebody else to know what's going on so just want to ask you about that thank you
[02:15:29] for me I look at a problem if I think I can contain the problem then I'm going to try and
[02:15:34] contain the problem I recognize and I weigh the risk of if this is wrong what's going to happen
[02:15:42] can I manage that can I control it can I absorb the impact of that if I can't absorb the impact of it
[02:15:48] then I know it's like okay this I need to bring this up I need to send this up the chain of
[02:15:52] care if it's something that I know I can absorb the impact of and I can explain myself and it will be
[02:15:56] sense that won't have been a strategic loss or a major error then I'm going to try and hang onto it and in
[02:16:04] the beginning I'm going to be I'm going to air towards sending it up the chain of command as I
[02:16:10] start to trust myself and I get better at my job I'm going to hang on to more but again I'm always
[02:16:16] going to weigh is this something that I can contain or I can absorb if it goes wrong and if it's
[02:16:23] something that I can hey I'm going to run up by somebody so I think it's you just got to weigh that out
[02:16:29] and once you weigh that out make it a decision and live with it all right go one more
[02:16:38] here microphone anyone is there a mic right there
[02:16:50] somebody who's recently recently proposed to somebody would like to spend the rest of my life with
[02:17:04] somebody who's married and has from my knowledge gone away for extensive periods of time
[02:17:12] from the partner what is your tips to building a mortar proof marriage that's going to last
[02:17:20] a long time yep the first thing I'll say is you know you want to develop the you want you
[02:17:28] you want to make sure and encourage your wife to be emotionally independent emotionally independent
[02:17:38] because there's going to be times when you're not around and if they're dependent on you emotionally
[02:17:45] you're not there they're going to they're going to be hurt and they're not going to be able to
[02:17:49] handle it so you want to help them build that resiliency where when you're not around they know
[02:17:57] how to handle things independently like the broken water heater in the flat tire they can do that
[02:18:03] and you you go through those things you you build that confidence with them and then also
[02:18:09] the emotional independence where what they have is trusting you that you're gone but you're coming
[02:18:16] back and you're going to be there for them always that's number one number two is
[02:18:26] straight up extreme ownership that's what it is when something is going wrong in your marriage
[02:18:34] it's your fault it's your fault the minute you turned your wife and you say you shouldn't
[02:18:43] done this you're wrong and you're you're taking that relationship in the wrong direction
[02:18:48] when you say hey look I'm trying to figure out how I made you do what you did I don't want to let
[02:18:55] that happen so taking ownership when things go wrong that's what you've got to do that's what you
[02:19:03] got to do thank you awesome awesome and with that once again I can't thank you all enough for
[02:19:25] coming tonight and I know that you're just not here tonight I know that if you're here tonight
[02:19:30] you're here all the time you're with us you're supporting us you're supporting everything that we're
[02:19:36] doing you're supporting the you're representing representing representing with the store with the
[02:19:43] jockel store with the with the origin you you guys are in the game you're getting the books and and
[02:19:48] most important you're you're listening and you're with us and the podcast it's it's a lot of work
[02:20:02] it's a lot of work a lot of work goes into it but I get more out of it than anyone
[02:20:12] I get more out of doing this than anyone and the thing that drives me to keep doing this
[02:20:22] is not just what I get out of it but also that you all are there and that you all are listening
[02:20:34] and that you all are sitting there with us and that you guys are here in the same thing that I'm
[02:20:41] hearing and you're learning the same things that I'm learning and I know that we're together
[02:20:56] and I know that that sounds kind of weird that sounds kind of crazy but
[02:21:02] we are we are together we're hanging out we're moving forward and together we're stronger
[02:21:19] and even though we aren't strong enough to bring back days and even though we are strong enough
[02:21:34] to bring back the sunset at least we can sit here together and we can be humbled and
[02:21:54] mystified by this life and together we can go out and we can live it I think that's
[02:22:13] all we've got for tonight so thanks for coming down and until next time
[02:22:19] this is echo and jockel.