Jocko Podcast 14: With Echo Charles - Guilty Pleasures, Training, Discipline

2016-03-16T06:34:10Z

Join the conversation - Twitter & Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:10:00 - Storm of Steel, by Ernst Junger - Book Review 1:02:50 - Internet Questions 1:04:00 - Jocko and Echo's Training Schedules 1:19:37 - Difference between lazy delegation, and decentralization. 1:28:07 - Jocko's Writing Process. 1:32:17 - Is Detachment to be done in real time? 1:38:39 - Dealing with being evaluated by people w/ different opinions. 1:44:18 - Jocko and Echo's (food) guilty pleasures. 1:55:34 - Is BUDS the right filter for the SEAL teams? 2:04:18 - What does "discipline" really mean, besides waking up early?

AI summary of episode

I think mine's like, psychological where, if I know it's 20 minutes, then I'm not, I don't feel like, I don't know, confined or, I don't know, I feel like, I feel like, I don't know. Where I'm just, where I just, for whatever, I lose the bubble, you know, and there's could be anything any number of things that could cause that maybe, you know, it's like multiple, I don't know, bad situation with travel, then with an event, then with something that come home and it's a birthday party and they only think it's pizza and I'm like, you know what it's Oh, and it's just done, right? Those are like the official, like when you, if you go through like a gun course, something like those are, that's the first thing. and then I saw this little kind of like a little ring, you know, like a little tab of skin just appeared. And so, you know, the last, you know, so we start with 20 guys on the mat and then after three rounds, there's, you know, 15 guys or 16 guys on the mat and then it down day 10 and then eight and then four and then it's me and one other guy. And the same way that I will, some nights I go in like there was, some days I go in or nights and, and, you know, normal night I just feel like roll and so I go in and roll. I sort, I feel like I got, I got good training yet, like, six, six, better rounds. Like I saw in his face as soon as I told him that it was like being, it was like connection made. Just like a joke, you know, they say like every joke has some little truth to it. I feel like I just feel like I'm going to break my toe today. And actually, I mean, there's like Tim Ferriss, he's got that thing where he does, it's something like six days in a row of eating, super clean. And then you've got to, you're other opportunities will come because people will see that you develop a team, people will see that you develop good leaders, and they're going to say, hey, I want you to come and do that at this higher position, and you're going to get benefit from that as well. So what is it like kind of like when your coach is saying, okay, everybody push up for 60 seconds and he's looking around and when you see he's not looking at you, you just kind of cruise. You mentioned the, the, given into the brain that you were evolved to have or when you know, and that's like seeking out sugar and fat and, you know, fat's not bad. Like someone's like kind of squeezing my hand a little bit with their fingers. Yeah, well, there's a quote where one guy was asking the other guy or something, like, hey, what happens if we develop our workers, and then they leave us, and he's like, it's better than not developing on. And so we trained a bunch and you know, there's no factor and he's like, well, we're going to tell him and I said, I haven't eaten for 48 hours. And then there's some from like, you know what, I do not want to do that kind of workout today because I feel an impending injury. Most of the time guys are, you know, like, hey, man, are you okay? It was like kind of touching it or something like that, but it's with us weird right? And I used to tell that to MMA fighters too and I've told that story before you know listen guys you're getting worried they're going to get knocked out or they're going to get caught in a submission. Like, oh, and instructors coming, like they'll help people skate through. Like, one way or the other, like, I either busted my ass and it did a couple days of hard working out. I'm like, looks like it's you got the last round, my friend. And I'll tell you one thing that I do, I kind of see is you know when I'm in the movie the Terminator when he sees like the various responses he could give. And I remember like they were telling me, hey, you know, sometimes guys get wounded, big shot and it does, it does, it does, it does not phase them. Where if you show anger, not only is it like a powerful thing in there, you're like, oh shoot, this is powerful.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 14 with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.
[00:00:10] Good evening, echo.
[00:00:12] Good evening.
[00:00:14] Now I want you to imagine yourself in the moment, the moment just prior to the battle.
[00:00:29] Now I don't want you to think because you're a soldier that this training is made you into
[00:00:36] some kind of a superhuman or maybe into a different kind of being because it hasn't.
[00:00:42] The training that you've been through hasn't changed the fact that you're a human being.
[00:00:49] All warriors are human beings.
[00:00:51] So this is you I'm talking to.
[00:00:55] And I want you to think about that time before you are going into the battle because
[00:01:01] that's the time when you can actually think when you're waiting.
[00:01:10] When you're waiting to go.
[00:01:14] And if you're going to feel fear, this is where you feel it because you have time.
[00:01:20] The preparation is done, the planning is done, the briefing is done, the gear is prepared
[00:01:25] and you are dressed and you are ready to go.
[00:01:31] And now you're just waiting.
[00:01:35] Waiting for the call or for the signal or for the command to execute.
[00:01:46] So you have time to think and in fact all you can do at that moment is think.
[00:01:56] And if you're an Iraq, maybe you're waiting to go into the Malab district or Romadi, where
[00:02:02] there's been vicious IEDs and casualties happening every day from months on end.
[00:02:12] If you're in Vietnam, maybe you're an helicopter and you're about to take part in an
[00:02:16] air assault on a known enemy stronghold.
[00:02:22] If you're in the Korean War, maybe you're hearing the whistles.
[00:02:28] The whistles signaling a coordinated attack by the red army and you're just waiting.
[00:02:37] Waiting for the shooting to start.
[00:02:39] If it's World War II, maybe you're just offshore and you're an landing craft and the
[00:02:44] sound of explosions and gunfire and the distance on the beach where you're headed.
[00:02:51] The beach you're waiting to hit.
[00:02:56] If it's World War I, perhaps you're waiting in your 10th burger, for doom or the
[00:03:03] song, but you're waiting to go over the top out of that trench and in the almost certain
[00:03:12] death.
[00:03:19] And in that moment, what do you think about?
[00:03:27] You think about family, friends, you think about your life, you think about death.
[00:03:32] You think about that girl, you wish that you would have asked to marry.
[00:03:42] Maybe you're thinking, how did I get myself into this?
[00:03:45] Or maybe you're thinking, how do I get myself out of this?
[00:03:49] Or maybe you're just sitting there rethinking the plan and the sequence and the orders
[00:03:53] you were given.
[00:03:58] Maybe you're thinking about your friends, getting killed or wounded.
[00:04:04] Maybe you're thinking about yourself getting killed or wounded.
[00:04:09] You could be thinking about so many different things.
[00:04:17] But one thing is certain.
[00:04:21] Whatever you are thinking about, whatever those thoughts are, those thoughts are clear.
[00:04:32] Those thoughts are an insight into your true nature, into your being, into your soul.
[00:04:47] And maybe that's the thing.
[00:04:50] Maybe that's the thing we miss about combat.
[00:04:54] And we always hear about the adrenaline rush and the excitement and the challenge of combat.
[00:05:03] But what about the cleansing of the mind against a backdrop of death?
[00:05:16] It seems like there's some purity that can only be revealed by the horror and the blood
[00:05:25] and the violence of impending combat.
[00:05:34] And as you think these thoughts in this moment when you realize that who's killing us is us.
[00:05:46] And as you think of the people, it's other humans and what are they thinking?
[00:05:52] Who are they?
[00:05:54] Why are they?
[00:05:55] What are they?
[00:05:59] And one of my do-near, why am I here?
[00:06:09] And despite all those thoughts and all those ideas and all those questions, there's only
[00:06:15] one answer.
[00:06:20] And the politics they disappear and the thoughts disappear and the fears and the reservations
[00:06:25] and the concern and the ego, it all disappears.
[00:06:35] Because at that moment, the moment of truth, there's only one answer.
[00:06:42] Forward, forward into the battle, into the fray.
[00:06:55] Toward the smoke and the fire and the bullets and the bombs and towards death to face it all
[00:07:09] head on.
[00:07:12] And maybe that is what the real addiction of combat is.
[00:07:22] Maybe that's what we yearn for.
[00:07:28] Maybe those thoughts that fill our dreams and our nightmares to be there again in the
[00:07:39] breach to have but one clear and resounding purpose for everything in our lives, everything
[00:07:52] in our world, everything in past, in present, in future, all of it wrapped up into that
[00:08:00] one instant to have that one singular purpose for being alive.
[00:08:09] And that moment to attack, attack with everything you have with every ounce of commitment,
[00:08:23] with every bit of clarity and focus that you as a human being can possibly muster.
[00:08:30] Attack with your weapons and your mind and your body and attack with your very soul.
[00:08:47] And maybe that purity is what we miss, is what I miss about combat.
[00:09:13] And so let's go back there once again.
[00:09:18] Once again to the battlefield to World War I again in my mind the most brutal of all wars.
[00:09:28] We're tactics and intelligence and strategy did not matter.
[00:09:36] It was a trishin and death and horror.
[00:09:42] Thundered possible only because of the purest and almost insane level of selflessness and
[00:09:53] bravery.
[00:10:07] And this starts off in that very situation, waiting for combat.
[00:10:17] I sat up for a long time that night in the foreboding eve of battle mood of which all
[00:10:25] soldiers at all times have left report.
[00:10:29] On a tree stump cluster around with blue edamons, before I crept over the ranks of my comrades
[00:10:37] to the tent, I had tangled dreams in which a principal role was played by a skull.
[00:10:48] In the morning the tender green of young leaves shimpered in the flat light.
[00:10:54] We followed hidden twisting paths toward a narrow gorge behind the front line.
[00:11:00] On the dawn of noon our artillery launched into a furious bombardment that echoed and
[00:11:05] re-acquered through the hollows of the wooded hollows.
[00:11:08] For the first time we heard what was meant by the expression drum fire.
[00:11:15] We sat perched on our haves, haversax, idle and excited.
[00:11:20] A runner plunged through the company to the company commander.
[00:11:24] Brisk exchange.
[00:11:26] The three-nears trenches have fallen to us and six field guns have been captured.
[00:11:31] Without cheers rang out, a feeling of up and Adam.
[00:11:37] At loss at last the long four-order.
[00:11:42] In a long line we moved forward toward the pattering of heavy rifle fire.
[00:11:47] It was getting serious.
[00:11:49] To the side of the forest path, dull thumps came down in a clump of furs, bring down a
[00:11:54] rain of branches and soil.
[00:11:57] One nervous soldier threw himself to the ground.
[00:12:01] Then death's call slipped through the ranks.
[00:12:05] Ambulance meant to the front.
[00:12:08] A little later we passed the spot that had been hit.
[00:12:12] The casualties had already been removed, bloody scraps of cloth and flesh had been left
[00:12:16] on the bushes around the crater.
[00:12:19] A strange and dreadful sight that put me in mind of the butcher bird that spikes its prey
[00:12:24] on thorn bushes.
[00:12:29] He entered the battle trampled realm of the infantrymen.
[00:12:34] The area around the jumping off position had been deforested by the shells.
[00:12:39] In the ripped up nomans land lay the victims of the attack still facing the enemy.
[00:12:44] Their great tunics barely stood out from the ground.
[00:12:47] A giant form with red, blood-spattered beard stared fixed at the sky.
[00:12:52] His fingers clutching the spongy ground.
[00:12:56] A young man tossed in a shell crater, his features already yellow with impending death.
[00:13:02] He seemed not to want to be looked at.
[00:13:04] He gave us a cross shrug and pulled this coat over his head and lay still.
[00:13:11] In a curious failure of comprehension, I looked alertly about me for possible targets for
[00:13:16] all this artillery fire not apparently realizing that it was actually ourselves that the
[00:13:21] enemy enemy gunners were trying for all they were worth to hit.
[00:13:27] Ambulance men, we had our first fatality, a sharp no ball had a rip-through riflemen stoned
[00:13:32] stulters caught carotoddery.
[00:13:35] Three packets of lint were sawed with blood in no time, in a matter of seconds he bled
[00:13:40] to death.
[00:13:43] In the rising mist, I leapt out of the trench and found a shrunken French corpse.
[00:13:49] Much like moldering fish, gleam greenly, greenishly through slits in the shredded uniform.
[00:13:56] Turning around, I took a step back in horror, next to me was a figure crouched against
[00:14:00] a tree.
[00:14:02] It still had gleaming French leather harness and on its back was a fully packed haversac,
[00:14:08] topped by a round mist in.
[00:14:11] empty eye sockets and a few strands of hair on the blueish black skull indicated that the
[00:14:17] man was not among the living.
[00:14:21] There was another sitting down slumped forward towards his feet, as though he had just collapsed.
[00:14:27] All around were dozens more, rotted, dried, stiffened to mummies, frozen in an eerie dance
[00:14:34] of death.
[00:14:36] The French must have spent months in the proximity of their fallen comrades without bearing
[00:14:41] them.
[00:14:42] A headless torso was jammed in some shot-up beams, head and neck were gone white cartilage
[00:14:53] gleamed out of a reddish black flesh.
[00:14:57] I found it difficult to fathom.
[00:14:59] Next to this very young man lay on his back with glass-y eyes and fist still aiming.
[00:15:05] A peculiar feeling, looking into dead, questioning eyes, a shutter that I never quite lost
[00:15:12] in the course of the war has pockets had been turned inside out and his empty wallet
[00:15:19] lay beside him.
[00:15:29] So that right there is the portion of the opening chapters of a book called Storm of Steel.
[00:15:39] Going into the introduction of the book, it says Storm of Steel is one of the great books
[00:15:43] of World War I, if not the greatest.
[00:15:48] Ernst Junger, that's the author, Ernst Junger's book on the 1914 war, Storm of Steel,
[00:15:54] is without question the finest book on war that I know utterly honest, truthful, in good
[00:16:01] faith.
[00:16:04] In contrast with most of the others is stark, it has no pacifist design, it makes no personal
[00:16:12] appeal.
[00:16:14] It is notably unconstructed book, it does not set its author and his experience in any sort
[00:16:21] of context.
[00:16:23] It offers nothing in the way of house and wise, it is pure wear and when and of course above
[00:16:31] all what?
[00:16:35] There is nothing in it about the politics of war, nothing even on its outcome and very
[00:16:41] little on the wider strategy of its conduct.
[00:16:47] War is all fighting is all, everything else is cropped away and from first to last in the
[00:16:58] affirmative.
[00:17:00] It is the work of a man whom the war made.
[00:17:13] So it's a little bit of a different kind of book.
[00:17:16] That was someone explaining the book.
[00:17:19] Someone explaining the book and just how it is, it's just about the fighting.
[00:17:25] So it's just about the fighting and that's one of the things that makes it so powerful.
[00:17:33] It's also one of the things that reflects very well what it feels like to be on the frontlines
[00:17:40] when politics don't matter, when the outcome doesn't even matter.
[00:17:43] The outcome of the broader war doesn't matter anymore.
[00:17:46] So what are we doing right now in this trench?
[00:17:56] Talking about being in these trenches which obviously all these soldiers spent and immense
[00:18:02] amount of time, they lived in these trenches.
[00:18:07] Back to the book, the desolation and the profound silence, sporadically broken by the
[00:18:12] crump of shells were heightened by the sorry impression of devastation.
[00:18:18] Ripped haversax, broken rifles, scraps of cloth, counterpointed, grotesque with children's
[00:18:24] toys, shell fuses, deep craters from explosions, bottles, harvest implements, shredded
[00:18:31] books, battered household gear, holes whose gaping darkness betrayed the presence of
[00:18:37] basements where the bodies of unlucky inhabitants of the houses were nod by the particularly
[00:18:43] ascidious swarms of rats.
[00:18:46] In the cattle buyers and stables and barns the bones of livestock still dangling from their
[00:18:52] chains, trenches dug through ravaged gardens, in among sprouting bulbs of onions, warm
[00:18:58] wood, rhubarb, narcissus, buried underweeds.
[00:19:04] From the neighboring fields, grain barns, through whose roofs grain, the grain was already
[00:19:09] sprouting, all that with half buried communication trench running through it, and all suffused
[00:19:16] with the smell of burning and decay.
[00:19:21] Sad thoughts are apt to sneak up on the warrior in such a low cow, when he thinks of
[00:19:26] those who only recently led their lives in tranquility.
[00:19:32] So, he's actually providing a little caution to people, little caution to the warriors
[00:19:37] that when you see these babies toys and this normal village that's been ripped and
[00:19:44] hours trenches running through it, and you can't let that sneak up on you.
[00:19:49] He says, that emotion, you've got to detach yourself from that, and speaking of the rats,
[00:20:02] he says, they are repellent creatures, and am always thinking of the secret desecrations
[00:20:07] they perform on the bodies and the village basements.
[00:20:10] Once, as I was striding through the ruins of Monarchy on a warm night, they came oozing
[00:20:16] out of their hiding places in such undescribable numbers that the ground was like a long
[00:20:22] carpet of them, patterned with the occasional white of an Albino.
[00:20:29] So, so many rats.
[00:20:32] First of all, so many rats that it looks like a carpet and so many rats that there's actually
[00:20:36] a regular occurrence of Albino rats.
[00:20:40] That's a lot of rats.
[00:20:48] And talking about life in the trench, we're real renaissance back to the book, we're real
[00:20:52] renaissance men, who can turn our hands to anything and the trenches make their thousand
[00:20:58] fold the man's on us every day.
[00:21:01] We sink deep shafts, construct dugouts, and concrete pill boxes, rig up wire and tanklements,
[00:21:07] divine drainage systems.
[00:21:10] Reveille support, level, rays, and smooth, fill in the trees, in a word we do all possible
[00:21:17] tasks ourselves.
[00:21:20] So these guys are in the business of constructing their house, constructing the trenches
[00:21:25] that they live in, they live in these dugouts which is like a lower part of the trench
[00:21:29] where they dig in, they build all the stuff themselves.
[00:21:33] And that's what they do.
[00:21:34] And then in the middle of that, back to the book, a century collapses, streaming blood, shot
[00:21:41] in the head.
[00:21:43] His comrades ripped the bandage roll out of his tunic and get them bandaged up.
[00:21:48] There's no point, Bill.
[00:21:50] Come on, he's still breathing, isn't he?
[00:21:53] And the stretchers bearers come along to carry him to the dressing station.
[00:21:58] The stretcher pulls collide with the corners of the firebase.
[00:22:02] No sooner has the man disappeared than everything is back to the way it was before.
[00:22:08] Someone spreads a few shovels of earth over the red puddle, and everyone goes back to
[00:22:13] whatever he was doing.
[00:22:16] Only a new recruit may be leans against the revetment, looking a little green about
[00:22:21] the gills, he's endeavoring to put it all together.
[00:22:25] Such an incredibly brutal assault, so sudden with no warning given, it can't be possible,
[00:22:31] it can't be real for a fellow.
[00:22:37] If only you knew what was in store for you.
[00:22:49] Then October 1915.
[00:22:53] Standing at dawn on the fire step opposite our dugout next to the century, when a rifle
[00:22:58] bullet ripped through his forge cap without harming a hair on his head.
[00:23:03] At the same time, two pioneers were wounded on the wires, one had a ricochet shot through
[00:23:08] both legs, the other a ball through his ear.
[00:23:12] In the morning, the century out on a flank was shot through both cheekbones.
[00:23:16] The blood spurred out of him in thick gouts, and to cap it all, when Lieutenant Vaughn
[00:23:23] E. Wald visiting our sector to take pictures of SAPN barely 50 yards away turned to climb
[00:23:29] down from the outlook, a bullet shattered the back of his skull and he died on the spot.
[00:23:35] Large fragments of skull were left littering the century platform.
[00:23:40] Also a man was hitting the shoulder, but not badly.
[00:23:44] The middle of the platoon section of trench was attacked with six and shells.
[00:23:49] One man was hurled against a post by the blast so hard, he sustained serious internal injuries,
[00:23:54] and a splinter of wood punctured the artery in his arm.
[00:23:59] That night two men were wounded while on spooling wire.
[00:24:04] Goot Schmidt was shot in both hands in one thigh and shaver took a bullet in the knee.
[00:24:11] Having a torrential downpour in the night, all the traverses came down and formed a gray
[00:24:16] sludgy porridge with the rain, turning the trench into a deep swamp.
[00:24:21] Our only consolation was at the British, or just as badly off as we were, because we could
[00:24:27] see them bailing out for all they were worth.
[00:24:30] Since our position has a little more elevation than theirs, we even managed to pump our
[00:24:35] excess their way.
[00:24:37] Here it is, they're almost face to face with the British.
[00:24:42] They're getting downpour of rain and they take a little satisfaction.
[00:24:47] The fact that they can actually funnel some of the water into the British trench, that's
[00:24:51] how close they are.
[00:24:54] The crumbled trench walls explode, exposed a line of bodies left there from the previous
[00:25:00] autumn's fighting.
[00:25:05] I was standing next to Territorial Weedman in front of the Altonburg Redout when a long
[00:25:12] shot passed through his bayonet, which he was carrying over a shoulder and gave him a bad
[00:25:17] wound in the groin.
[00:25:21] This is kind of the daily life that he talks about being stuck in these trenches.
[00:25:29] And it's just brutal.
[00:25:34] It's brutal and you can kind of get the matter of factness that he delivers so much of
[00:25:40] this with.
[00:25:41] Take this guy with shot, this guy with shot, this guy with how to leg blown off.
[00:25:45] It's just like boom, boom, boom, boom.
[00:25:50] When he mentions how he noticed someone else reacting to that, when meanwhile it's just
[00:25:54] real matter of fact to him, but just the other guy reacting to it stands out.
[00:26:00] That's all matter of fact it is.
[00:26:05] And the book, which I kind of got in the beginning, talked about some of this first combat
[00:26:11] that he was exposed when he goes on to go through, I mean just the battle was on, which
[00:26:17] is 60,000 casualties in the first day.
[00:26:23] There were 58,000 killed in Vietnam, I mean 58,000 Americans killed in Vietnam.
[00:26:32] We're talking 60,000 casualties the first day and in three months there was a million.
[00:26:38] A million.
[00:26:41] It's the whole state of Hawaii, by the way.
[00:26:45] It's unbelievable what this war was.
[00:26:50] It really was.
[00:26:53] It's really unfathomless.
[00:26:54] I think about what these guys were ordered to do and the fact that they did it over and
[00:26:59] over and over again.
[00:27:03] We have more respect for human life now than we did then period.
[00:27:11] I don't care what anybody says.
[00:27:13] We have more respect for human life now than they did then.
[00:27:17] Maybe that means we're weaker.
[00:27:20] Maybe it means we're more cowardly.
[00:27:22] Just to send millions of men to their death forever that didn't really have any strategic
[00:27:32] impact that that was true.
[00:27:36] It's horrible to think about.
[00:27:47] So now we're getting, I believe that for people to read the bulk of the middle of the
[00:27:54] book where he goes into these details.
[00:27:57] But then I kind of moving forward here more towards the end of the book.
[00:28:04] And now we're getting into these really pretty fierce battles and also what's interesting
[00:28:12] is this is when he starts seeing the enemy.
[00:28:15] They can hear him in the other trenches but now he starts meeting them face to face.
[00:28:21] And indeed we heard on 29 November from Captain Von Brickson that we were that we were
[00:28:28] to take part in a sweeping counter offensive against the bolds that the tank battle at
[00:28:32] Cambre had made in our front.
[00:28:36] Even though we were pleased to play a part of the hammer having so long been the animal,
[00:28:41] we wondered whether the troops still exhausted from flanders would be up to the job.
[00:28:47] That said I had every confidence in my company.
[00:28:50] They had never let anyone down yet.
[00:28:53] On the night of 30 November to one December we were put on low-reasons truck.
[00:28:59] In the process we took our first losses as a soldier dropped a hand grenade which for some
[00:29:05] reason exploded gravely injuring him in another man.
[00:29:10] Someone else famed insanity in an attempt to get out of the battle.
[00:29:16] After a lot of chewing and throwing a buffet in the ribs from an NCO seemed to sort him out
[00:29:23] and we were able to go.
[00:29:25] It showed me that that sort of play acting is difficult to keep up.
[00:29:32] Now I've talked about this before and if you didn't go the last time I talked about it
[00:29:37] and look at the shell-shocked videos of World War I on YouTube, there are a rifick
[00:29:43] to watch and you realize what this war did to people.
[00:29:48] I pulled this section out because he was a guy who probably had gone completely insane.
[00:29:56] He's like saying this guy famed insanity.
[00:30:00] He just said you know what this guy's faking.
[00:30:02] Even though he probably was, he probably was.
[00:30:05] He says you know what beat this guy up, tell him to suck it up and now we can go and
[00:30:10] that's exactly what happened.
[00:30:11] That was kind of the attitude right?
[00:30:13] Remember you're saying that was kind of the attitude back then?
[00:30:15] It absolutely was the attitude.
[00:30:18] It was the attitude and they they talk about.
[00:30:19] I mean I've paid more attention to it on the British side but if you came back from the
[00:30:25] war with all your limbs and you went into a medical war, meaning you were in there
[00:30:32] because you had psychological problems.
[00:30:35] It was because you were a coward in their minds.
[00:30:38] Which is sick, it's sickening.
[00:30:44] Yeah I think how you were saying life meant less than or it means more like human life.
[00:30:50] I think it's just like it was just a lack of knowledge.
[00:30:53] They looked into it over the years and stuff and they kind of...
[00:30:56] Oh as far as the PTSD and the shell-shock everything.
[00:31:00] Absolutely.
[00:31:01] We've learned all kinds about that.
[00:31:03] Yeah.
[00:31:04] But it is really horrible when you see those videos of what this war did to people.
[00:31:13] And that's what war does due to people.
[00:31:15] We got to remember that that it impacts people in a horrible way.
[00:31:23] And this war, to me especially, more so than they were, primarily because of the conditions
[00:31:29] and from the indirect fire, the mortars and the shell-ing, and again it's something that
[00:31:35] you have no control over.
[00:31:36] And also you could see these guys had no control over their fate.
[00:31:41] They were going to get told to do something, they were going to do it.
[00:31:44] And if you weren't going to do it you were a coward.
[00:31:49] You know if you were to protest and say hey this doesn't seem like a good plan to me.
[00:31:52] It wouldn't be well okay what's your strategic opinion?
[00:31:54] Wouldn't your tactic, which your tactical brain tell you?
[00:31:57] No, no you're a coward.
[00:31:59] And that's why it's so important really in any endeavor, especially in a war, but in
[00:32:07] a war in business, to have an open mind from a leadership position, to listen to what
[00:32:13] people are saying because they might be right and here I guarantee there were thousands
[00:32:18] and thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of soldiers that would have said hey you know
[00:32:21] what this doesn't make any sense.
[00:32:26] And part of it isn't combing upon them to say you know what?
[00:32:30] No, I mean it's like we talked about with Napoleon's Maxim, right?
[00:32:34] Napoleon's Maxim was if you are aware of a problem with an order and you carried out
[00:32:39] and you get your guys killed you're culpable.
[00:32:42] So these guys obviously hadn't read that and hadn't taken that on board where you listened
[00:32:48] to your subordinates and you say okay what do you think of this plan?
[00:32:52] We've tried it 12 times in the past month and a half and we're going to try to get
[00:32:56] to tomorrow.
[00:32:57] We're going to get up at the sound of the whistle and we're going to charge towards
[00:32:59] these other enemy machine guns.
[00:33:01] It hasn't worked yet, but we think it might work tomorrow.
[00:33:05] No one figured that out?
[00:33:10] Listen to your people and listen to your brain.
[00:33:14] Listen to your common sense, don't get stuck.
[00:33:18] Don't get stuck in a mental rut.
[00:33:21] With anything and it's so easy to look if you could send millions of humans to their
[00:33:26] death because you can't think your way out of the strategy.
[00:33:30] You can't identify a strategy as being wrong.
[00:33:32] You can't come up with a new way to execute something.
[00:33:37] That shows you how trapped in a box your brain can get and not only you but your buddies
[00:33:44] that are all thinking the same way and you're all feeding off each other with ancestral
[00:33:48] ideals that are the same ideas being fed to one another and it leads to this.
[00:33:58] Back to the book.
[00:34:01] Suddenly there was some commotion at the British barricade.
[00:34:05] Hand grenades flew, rifles banged, machine guns clattered.
[00:34:09] They're coming.
[00:34:10] They're coming.
[00:34:11] We leaped behind sandbags and started shooting.
[00:34:15] In the heat of the battle, one of my men, Corporal Kimpin House, jumped onto the parapet
[00:34:21] and fired down into the trench until he was brought down by two bad wounds in his arms.
[00:34:26] I took note of this hero of the hour and was proud to congratulate him two weeks later
[00:34:32] on the ward of the Iron Cross first class.
[00:34:37] No sooner had we got back from this interruption to our lunch than there was more pandemonium.
[00:34:43] It was one of those curious incidents that can suddenly an unpredictably transform an entire
[00:34:49] situation.
[00:34:51] The noise was coming from a subaltern in the regiment on our left who wanted to line up with
[00:34:58] us and seemed inflamed by a berserk fury.
[00:35:05] Drink seemed to have tipped his innate bravery into towering rage.
[00:35:10] Where are the tomis?
[00:35:12] Let me add them.
[00:35:13] Come on boys, who's coming with me?
[00:35:16] In his incident fury, he knocked over our fine barricade and plunged forward, clearing
[00:35:22] a path for himself with hand grenades.
[00:35:27] So this guy is, you know, going after it.
[00:35:32] He's, you know, he's described as being like almost drunk.
[00:35:36] Maybe he actually is drunk, but he's just standing up and charging.
[00:35:45] Charging forward, clearing a path for himself with hand grenades.
[00:35:48] Back to the book.
[00:35:49] His orderly slipped ahead of him along the trench shooting down anyone who survived
[00:35:53] the explosion.
[00:35:55] Explosions.
[00:35:56] Bravely, bravery, fearless risking of one's own life is always inspiring.
[00:36:01] Be too found ourselves picked up by his wild fury and scrambling around to grab a few hand
[00:36:09] grenades rushed to form part of this berserkers' project progress.
[00:36:14] Soon I was up alongside him, tearing along the line, and the other officers too, followed
[00:36:19] by riflemen from my company.
[00:36:24] Even Captain von Brickson, the battalion commander, was up there in the van, rifle and
[00:36:29] hand bringing down enemy hand grenade throwers.
[00:36:34] The British resisted manfully.
[00:36:37] Every traverse had to be fought for.
[00:36:41] The black balls of millilose bombs as a British grenades crossed in the air with our own
[00:36:46] long handled grenades.
[00:36:49] Behind every traverse we captured, we found corpses or bodies still twitching.
[00:36:54] We kill each other sight unseen.
[00:36:58] We too suffered losses.
[00:37:01] A piece of iron crashed into the ground next to the orderly, which the fellow was unable
[00:37:06] to avoid and he collapsed the ground while his blood issued onto the clay from his many
[00:37:12] wounds.
[00:37:14] We heard a lot of his body and charged forwards.
[00:37:19] Fundress crashes pointed us the way.
[00:37:22] Hundreds of pairs of eyes were lying in weight behind rifles and machine guns in dead
[00:37:26] man's land.
[00:37:29] We were already a long way from our own front lines.
[00:37:34] From all sides bullets whistled round our steel helmets or struck the trench parapet with
[00:37:39] a hard crack.
[00:37:40] Each time a black iron oval broke the horizon, one's eyes sized it up with that instantaneous
[00:37:48] clarity of which a man is only capable in moments of life and death.
[00:37:55] During those instances of waiting, you had to try and get to a place where you could see
[00:38:00] as much of the sky as possible because it was only against its pale backdrop that it
[00:38:06] was possible to see the black jagged iron of those deadly balls with sufficient clarity.
[00:38:13] Then you hurled your own bomb and leaked forward.
[00:38:18] One barely glanced at the crumpled body of one's opponents.
[00:38:22] He was finished and a new duel was commencing.
[00:38:27] In the exchange of hand grenades, it reminded me of fencing with foils you needed to jump
[00:38:33] and stretch almost as in a ballet.
[00:38:37] It is the deadliest of duels, as it invariably ends with one of the participants or the
[00:38:43] other being blown to smithereens or both hand grenade fights.
[00:38:59] Just to explain that a little bit, it's one thing that we definitely learned in the
[00:39:04] seal teams when you're patrolling at night and especially before night vision.
[00:39:08] When you wanted to see the person in front of you and especially to see their hand signals
[00:39:12] because we use all hand signals at night.
[00:39:15] If you want to see them, you get down on a knee and you put the back light behind them
[00:39:21] so you can see what hand signal they're passing.
[00:39:23] What he's doing here is they're trying to get as low as they can and backlight the sky
[00:39:28] as much as they can so they can see the grenades that are being thrown at them.
[00:39:34] Then when they do get thrown out of them, they try and get up to a spot where they don't
[00:39:37] think it's going to blow up and then they're huck their own grenades back.
[00:39:40] In these moments, I was capable of seeing the dead.
[00:39:48] I jumped over them with every stride without horror.
[00:39:55] They lay there in their relaxed and softly spilled attitude that characterizes those
[00:40:02] moments in which life takes its leave.
[00:40:09] Now they get the British kind of trapped.
[00:40:16] The trench they were trying to escape down double back on itself towards ours like a curved
[00:40:21] frame of a lear and at the narrowest point, they were only ten paces apart so they had
[00:40:28] to pass us again.
[00:40:29] From our elevated position, we were able to look down on the British helmets as they stumbled
[00:40:34] in their haste and excitement.
[00:40:36] I tossed a hand grenade in front of the first lot, bringing them up short.
[00:40:40] And after them, all the others, then they were stuck in a frightful jam.
[00:40:47] Hand grenades flew through the air like snowballs covering everything in milk-white smoke.
[00:40:53] Fresh bombs were handed up to us from below.
[00:40:57] Lightening's flashed between the huddle to British, hurling up rags of flesh and uniforms
[00:41:02] and helmets.
[00:41:05] They were mingled cries of rage and fear.
[00:41:10] With fire in our eyes we jumped onto the very lip of the trench.
[00:41:16] The rifles of the whole area were pointed at us.
[00:41:20] Suddenly in my delirium, I was knocked to the ground as by a hammer below.
[00:41:26] Sober, I pulled off my helmet and saw to my tear that there were two large holes in it.
[00:41:32] To that Mormon, leaping up to assist me, assured me that I had a bleeding scratch at the
[00:41:37] back of my head nothing more.
[00:41:39] A bullet shot from some distance had punched through my helmet and it only brushed my
[00:41:44] skull.
[00:41:47] Half unconscious, I reeled back with a hurriedly applied bandage to remove myself from the eye
[00:41:52] of the storm.
[00:41:55] No sooner had I passed the nearest reverse than a man ran up behind me and told me that
[00:42:00] tab had just been killed in the same place by a shot in the head.
[00:42:07] The news floored me.
[00:42:10] A friend of mine with noble qualities with whom I had shared joy, sorrow and danger for
[00:42:16] years now.
[00:42:18] Who only a few moments ago had called out some pleasantry to me, taken from life by a tiny
[00:42:24] piece of lead.
[00:42:28] I could not grasp the fact.
[00:42:32] Unfortunately, it was all too true.
[00:42:38] In this murderous sector of trench, all my NCOs and a third of my company were bleeding
[00:42:43] to death.
[00:42:45] Shots in the head rained down.
[00:42:47] Lieutenant Hopphan and another one was another one of the fallen.
[00:42:52] An older man, a teacher by profession, a German schoolmaster in the best sense of the word.
[00:42:59] My two engines and many others besides were wounded.
[00:43:03] And yet the seventh company held onto the conquered line under the command of Lieutenant
[00:43:09] Hopphan Raff, the only able-bodied officer remaining until he relieved.
[00:43:17] Of all the stimulating moments in a war.
[00:43:21] There is none to compare with the encounter of two stormtroop commanders in the narrow clay
[00:43:28] walls of a line.
[00:43:32] There is no going back and no pity.
[00:43:37] And everyone knows who is seen of them in their kingdom.
[00:43:43] The aristocrat of the trench with hard determined visage brave to the point of
[00:43:50] the folly, leaping adually forward and back with keen bloodthirsty eyes, men who answered
[00:43:58] the demands of the hour.
[00:44:01] And whose names go down in no chronicle.
[00:44:15] And I think as we read these books, these books, these are chronicles.
[00:44:22] Somebody wrote this guy lived and wrote, but he's making a specific point here.
[00:44:32] He uses the term the aristocrat of the trench.
[00:44:35] It's not the term aristocrat.
[00:44:39] It's not the snobby aristocrat.
[00:44:43] That's not what he's talking about.
[00:44:44] So you look up the definition of a aristocrat and one of the meanings of it is like
[00:44:47] the best of.
[00:44:50] So I just want to talk about these guys that were the best guys in the trench that had
[00:44:57] the hard look that would get after it.
[00:45:04] And yet their names go down in no chronicle.
[00:45:06] And I'll tell you, I know many, many brave men.
[00:45:14] In the seal teams, in the Marine Corps, in the Army, brave souls that were aristocrats
[00:45:23] of war.
[00:45:27] And their name will go down in no chronicle.
[00:45:34] A later battle.
[00:45:36] Two men who had just ahead of us tried to make it back over the top, one toppled back
[00:45:42] into the trench with a shot in the head, the other shot in the belly could only crawl
[00:45:47] into it.
[00:45:49] We hunkered down on the floor to wait and smoked English cigarettes.
[00:45:53] From time to time, well-aimed rifle grenades came flying over.
[00:45:57] We were able to see them and take avasive action.
[00:46:01] The man with the wound in the belly, a very young lad lay in amongst us, stretched out
[00:46:08] like a cat in the warm rays of the setting sun.
[00:46:14] He slipped into death with an almost childlike smile on his face.
[00:46:20] It was a sight that didn't oppress me, but left me with a fraternal feeling for the dying
[00:46:26] man.
[00:46:28] Even the groaning of his comrade, gradually fell silent.
[00:46:35] He died in our midst, shuddering.
[00:46:44] It's that line there really caught me.
[00:46:48] Where he died in our midst, shuddering.
[00:46:52] And it's, I think, what catches you about it's because the other, it's contrasted with
[00:46:57] the other one who died with an almost childlike smile on his face.
[00:47:05] And you know what I was thinking when you see this much death, it's like when they say
[00:47:09] the eskimos have thousand words for snow because they're so familiar with snow.
[00:47:16] And these men were faced with so much death that they saw the varied faces of death.
[00:47:26] And how different they are.
[00:47:30] And you know, one thing that I remember from some of the older Vietnam seals talking
[00:47:34] to me about guys that have been wounded, this is, you know, in the 90s.
[00:47:39] So I had no idea anything about combat.
[00:47:42] And I remember like they were telling me, hey, you know, sometimes guys get wounded,
[00:47:46] big shot and it does, it does, it does, it does not phase them.
[00:47:50] And it's part of it's the physiology, like if you get shot in a certain place, it just
[00:47:56] doesn't, it just doesn't do anything.
[00:47:58] You can, you can drive on.
[00:48:00] And then you'll have someone else get shot in a different place.
[00:48:04] And it just, there's nothing you can do about it.
[00:48:05] Like it blows their femur apart or it hits their hip in such a way that they cannot.
[00:48:10] They're just down and in agonizing pain, whereas someone else may get shot on a through
[00:48:15] and through, meaning it just goes in one side and out the other.
[00:48:18] And it's almost like they don't even notice it.
[00:48:20] Yeah.
[00:48:21] Because it happens so fast.
[00:48:22] Happened so fast and it doesn't cause any traumatic damage.
[00:48:25] And then you have the psychological aspect where some people psychologically, they get hit
[00:48:29] and they're freaking out.
[00:48:30] Oh my god, I'm going to die.
[00:48:33] And some other people are, you know, I got hit, just leave me alone.
[00:48:35] Hey, I got this.
[00:48:36] Don't worry about me.
[00:48:37] I ain't got time to bleed.
[00:48:39] Yeah.
[00:48:40] So, those are some situations that, you know, are just different.
[00:48:45] And then it's the same thing.
[00:48:46] Obviously, when this guy sees death after death after death, after death, he sees the variables
[00:48:57] and the various faces of death.
[00:48:59] So, so now we're getting towards the end.
[00:49:10] And I mean, this is at a point now where they're starting to recognize that they're
[00:49:16] going to lose the war.
[00:49:20] And what's crazy about that is, now, okay, if you tell me, hey, we're fighting for our country,
[00:49:26] okay, I get it.
[00:49:27] We're going to drive on, maybe we're going to make some sacrifices.
[00:49:29] These guys now recognize that they're probably not going to win.
[00:49:38] And he's kind of given his guys a brief before they go into another assault.
[00:49:43] I paraded my company in battle order in a small apple orchard.
[00:49:49] Standing under an apple tree, I addressed a few words to the men who were drawn up in front
[00:49:54] of me in a horseshoe arrangement.
[00:49:58] They looked serious and manly.
[00:50:01] There wasn't much to say.
[00:50:04] In the course of the last few days and with a kind of sweetness that is only to be explained
[00:50:10] by the fact that an army is not only men under arms, but also men fused with a sense
[00:50:18] of common purpose.
[00:50:21] Probably every one of them had come to understand that we were on our upper's and on
[00:50:28] our upper's is an expression that means it's like when you're in poverty or when you
[00:50:34] don't have the means anymore.
[00:50:36] So they knew he knew that they were on their last legs.
[00:50:39] They knew that they were on their last legs.
[00:50:43] He goes on with every attack.
[00:50:45] The enemy came forward with more powerful means, his blows were swifter and more devastating.
[00:50:54] Everyone knew we could no longer win, but we would stand firm.
[00:51:12] We would stand firm.
[00:51:16] Now they're in his final battle.
[00:51:21] I had a very impartial feeling as if I were able to view myself through binoculars.
[00:51:28] You can see he's now becoming detached.
[00:51:31] For the first time in the entire war, I heard the hissing of individual bullets as if
[00:51:36] they were whistling past some target.
[00:51:40] We were coming downhill, indistinct figures moved against the background of a red brown
[00:51:46] clay.
[00:51:47] A machine gun spat out its gouts of bullets, the feeling of hopelessness increased.
[00:51:55] Even so we broken to Iran while the gunners were finding their range.
[00:52:01] We jumped over several snipers' nests and hurriedly excavated trenches.
[00:52:08] In mid-Jump, over a slightly better-made trench, I felt a piercing jolt in the chest, as though
[00:52:14] I'd been hit like a game bird.
[00:52:17] With a sharp cry that seemed to cost me all the air I had, I spun on my axis and crashed
[00:52:24] to the ground.
[00:52:27] It hit got me at last.
[00:52:30] At the same time as feeling I had been hit, I felt the bullet taking away my life.
[00:52:37] I had felt death's hand once before on the road at Mori, but this time his grip was firmer
[00:52:46] and more determined.
[00:52:49] As I came down heavily on the bottom of the trench, I was convinced it was all over.
[00:52:56] Strangely, that moment is one of the very few in my life of which I am able to say, they
[00:53:04] were utterly happy.
[00:53:07] I understood as in a flash of lightning, the true inner purpose and form of my life.
[00:53:16] I felt surprise and disbelief that it was to end there and then, but this surprise had
[00:53:24] something untrubbled and almost merry about it.
[00:53:30] And I heard the firing grow less as if I were a stone sinking under the surface of some
[00:53:39] turbulent water.
[00:53:43] Where I was going, there was neither war nor enmity.
[00:53:59] So obviously he did survive that wounding because he was able to write this book and
[00:54:07] you wrote many other books.
[00:54:14] The book is called Storm of Steel by Ernst E. Younger.
[00:54:35] And as I wrap up these books, sometimes I feel like, hey, where do I compare this?
[00:54:46] How do I tie it in?
[00:54:50] And I mean obviously there's lessons and leadership and strategy and I talk a little bit
[00:54:56] about listening to your troops and keeping an open mind.
[00:55:05] Even though they started off and the description of this book is saying, there's no pacifists
[00:55:17] leaning in this book.
[00:55:23] Something that I often remind people about the guys that have fought wars.
[00:55:37] Is that if there's anybody that looks at war and says, let's try to avoid it if we can.
[00:55:51] That's the guys that have been there.
[00:55:53] The guys that have fought.
[00:55:56] We don't want to send our friends to war, we don't want to send kids to war.
[00:56:04] And I think this book is a reminder of just how bad it can be and just how horrible a thing
[00:56:18] that war is.
[00:56:23] Now of course that always comes with the caveat of the fact that there are things that
[00:56:28] are more evil than war.
[00:56:32] And there are things that can only be stopped.
[00:56:34] There is evil that can only be stopped through the waging of war.
[00:56:44] But when you do have to go to war because the evil must be stopped, then go to war
[00:56:54] to win and win decisively.
[00:57:00] So you don't put men through horrors for nothing.
[00:57:20] Going back to the part where you're talking about guys getting hit and they deal with
[00:57:25] different people just have different reactions.
[00:57:31] When it's that kind of bill like a bullet happened so fast, I don't think your nerves
[00:57:34] really register.
[00:57:35] It just depends on where you hit because your bullet could go through your arm and you
[00:57:39] don't notice it or go through your arm and hit your bone.
[00:57:43] Or the nerve.
[00:57:44] Or like graze the bone.
[00:57:46] Yeah, it could hit the bone.
[00:57:47] It could shout out of the bone.
[00:57:48] I saw guys that got hit in the bone and it's devastating.
[00:57:54] And you see guys that got through and through and they're fine.
[00:57:57] They're literally fine.
[00:57:59] And so war is a huge element of chance in it.
[00:58:08] And you know I actually got there's an internet question that I got asked and I didn't
[00:58:11] I don't think we brought it up.
[00:58:14] But it's basically somebody saying how do you deal with the randomness of war?
[00:58:18] Like you could just have a idea of what the randomness of war.
[00:58:22] And for me it's the way I dealt with the randomness of war is the really simple thought
[00:58:28] of I'm going to control what I can control.
[00:58:31] And if I can't control it, I'm not going to worry about it.
[00:58:34] You can't worry about the random sniper shot.
[00:58:37] I mean, you can do everything you can to mitigate it.
[00:58:39] You know when you're out there in the field, you keep moving, moving, you stay behind
[00:58:43] the cover as much as you can.
[00:58:44] You don't come up in the same spot over and over again.
[00:58:47] You do the things to mitigate the risk.
[00:58:50] But you can't just be dwelling on it because you can't control it.
[00:58:55] Yeah.
[00:58:56] The same thing we're getting hit with a random ID or a random indirect fire from a mortar.
[00:59:02] You cannot mitigate all that risk.
[00:59:05] So what do you do?
[00:59:07] You do everything you can to mitigate it.
[00:59:10] And then you know you worry about the things you can control.
[00:59:13] And I used to tell that to MMA fighters too and I've told that story before you know
[00:59:16] listen guys you're getting worried they're going to get knocked out or they're going
[00:59:19] to get caught in a submission.
[00:59:21] It's like hey, you've done everything you can to mitigate that.
[00:59:24] You've trained, you've conditioned yourself, you've spared, you've done meds.
[00:59:28] You've done everything that you can do.
[00:59:30] If that happens, you can't control it.
[00:59:33] If it happens, you can't control it.
[00:59:34] So don't even worry about it.
[00:59:36] We're worried about the things you can control the pace of the fight, putting the fight
[00:59:40] where you want it to be, winning the rounds, being a tactician.
[00:59:43] We're worried about those things.
[00:59:45] Don't worry about getting knocked out.
[00:59:47] You know what?
[00:59:48] Keep your hands up.
[00:59:49] Keep your head movement.
[00:59:51] Keep the distance in correct.
[00:59:52] Those are the things that are going to keep you from getting knocked out.
[00:59:55] But you can't mitigate all that risk you're in a fist fight.
[00:59:58] And in a fist fight, some people sometimes people get won't knock out.
[01:00:01] And in a war, sometimes people get wounded and sometimes people get killed.
[01:00:08] And you cannot mitigate that risk away.
[01:00:10] It's a war.
[01:00:12] And you've got to deal with it.
[01:00:14] Remember, this is going to be a kind of funny, comparatively speaking, but I shot my own
[01:00:20] hand one time.
[01:00:21] What?
[01:00:22] But BB gun.
[01:00:23] You don't have to tell the story about the public.
[01:00:26] There's a lesson in there, though.
[01:00:29] Okay.
[01:00:30] It's not even a lesson.
[01:00:31] It's like, let us don't shoot your hand with a gun.
[01:00:34] Yeah, it was done.
[01:00:35] It was one of those ones where, you know, you put the CO2 in.
[01:00:37] So I just changed the CO2 cartridge.
[01:00:40] And I was like, hey, there's no BBs in here.
[01:00:42] So I'm going to see just how strong does this air feel?
[01:00:46] You know, with that brand new CO2.
[01:00:48] And there's a BB in there.
[01:00:51] And so a shot it and I didn't feel anything.
[01:00:54] That's the weird thing is what I say.
[01:00:55] So when I shot it and when the BB went and it went deep in there, went in, I didn't see
[01:01:00] it and then I saw this little kind of like a little ring, you know, like a little tab
[01:01:03] of skin just appeared.
[01:01:05] And I was like, what?
[01:01:06] You know, like I felt the air.
[01:01:07] I was like, that's some pretty strong air.
[01:01:08] And then kind of, you know, a few seconds went by and I feel just this pressure.
[01:01:13] Like someone's like kind of squeezing my hand a little bit with their fingers.
[01:01:16] And I was like kind of confused.
[01:01:19] Because I, of course, I didn't.
[01:01:21] There was no BB in there.
[01:01:22] I knew that from the beginning.
[01:01:23] And I don't, I don't know if you're going to be painting.
[01:01:25] You know that.
[01:01:26] But right.
[01:01:27] Yeah, I'm saying that's the thing.
[01:01:29] And then maybe, you know, maybe 10 seconds or so, it just starts gushing blood.
[01:01:34] And it comes to real, I'm a, but no pain.
[01:01:36] And you know, and I kind of like, you start kind of blacken out.
[01:01:41] I think it was, I was like 12 years old.
[01:01:43] I start kind of blacken out.
[01:01:44] And what happened was the BB went through and got lodged in my tendons.
[01:01:51] Under there.
[01:01:52] So it took like three surgeries to get it out.
[01:01:54] You know, the first one he just reached in there.
[01:01:56] Second one he cut a little bit and the third one.
[01:01:59] They just cut my hand open.
[01:02:00] They had to like move the tendons to the side and like grab it.
[01:02:04] It's bad.
[01:02:05] But the point is there was no pain.
[01:02:06] Yeah.
[01:02:07] Because it just happens so fast, you know.
[01:02:09] Actually, that's one point.
[01:02:10] The other point is always treat weapons as if they're loaded.
[01:02:12] Oh, yeah.
[01:02:14] And never point a weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy.
[01:02:16] Well, we know that now.
[01:02:18] I'm just, I was really nervous.
[01:02:20] Yeah.
[01:02:21] Yeah.
[01:02:22] Yeah.
[01:02:23] First of all, we got some young listeners out there.
[01:02:24] Yeah.
[01:02:25] Don't point guns at your hands and pull the trigger.
[01:02:26] Yeah.
[01:02:27] That's actually always treat weapons as if they're loaded.
[01:02:29] And never aim a weapon at anything you don't intend to destroy.
[01:02:32] Period.
[01:02:33] Those are like the official, like when you, if you go through like a gun course, something
[01:02:36] like those are, that's the first thing.
[01:02:39] Yeah.
[01:02:40] Interesting.
[01:02:41] Well, you see all the training.
[01:02:43] So it's a little bit more heavy than a gun course.
[01:02:45] The basic principles of gun safety do not change.
[01:02:48] Yeah.
[01:02:49] And they should not change.
[01:02:50] Yeah.
[01:02:51] I wish I wouldn't know that when I was 12.
[01:02:52] Thank you.
[01:02:57] I think it's time for some questions from the interwebs.
[01:03:02] Yes.
[01:03:03] Questions from the interwebs.
[01:03:05] Speaking of interwebs, we are in fact supported by onit.com.
[01:03:12] And if you don't know what onit.com is or what onit is, it's where we get our supplements
[01:03:18] and a bunch of other cool supplements that work.
[01:03:22] A lot of extensive information on there too.
[01:03:25] If you want to know more about the updates.
[01:03:26] You can also get stuff.
[01:03:28] Yeah.
[01:03:29] You can also get like kettlebells and corbells, which I have, in which I utilize.
[01:03:34] Yeah.
[01:03:35] Yes.
[01:03:36] Stentively.
[01:03:37] And not just normal kettlebells either.
[01:03:40] Yeah.
[01:03:41] Let's just say that.
[01:03:42] Yeah.
[01:03:43] That's true.
[01:03:44] Oh, NNIT.com.
[01:03:47] Backslash.
[01:03:48] Backslash.
[01:03:49] Jocco.
[01:03:50] Get yourself a discount there.
[01:03:51] Yeah.
[01:03:52] 10% off.
[01:03:53] Freciipping on everything except for the heavy, heavy items, which are the weights and kettlebells.
[01:03:58] What not?
[01:03:59] Anyway, yeah.
[01:04:00] Do it.
[01:04:02] First question.
[01:04:07] Can you talk about your training schedules, roles, which is jujitsu training sessions?
[01:04:12] What's that for me?
[01:04:13] You explained to me what roles is?
[01:04:16] For everyone.
[01:04:17] All right.
[01:04:18] In the event of them not knowing.
[01:04:19] We'd be rolled in there.
[01:04:20] So can you talk about your training schedules, your roles, and what is a typical week?
[01:04:25] What is that look like?
[01:04:27] Well, for me, you know, I work out everyday.
[01:04:32] So what that means every morning I wake up early and I get it on.
[01:04:36] I lift weights, I do calisthenics, I do some kind of sprinting evolution seven days a week,
[01:04:42] seven days a week and as I've explained to many people on the Twitter, they say don't you
[01:04:49] ever take a day off and I do.
[01:04:50] But I don't plan to take days off.
[01:04:52] Days off.
[01:04:53] Life brings days off.
[01:04:56] You got the broken water heater.
[01:04:58] You got the sick kids.
[01:04:59] You got sick.
[01:05:01] You got the car broke down.
[01:05:04] You got the event at school.
[01:05:06] Whatever it is.
[01:05:07] Some there's some reason.
[01:05:08] There's some travel plans that don't allow it.
[01:05:11] So there's life will give you days off.
[01:05:13] So don't take off days voluntarily.
[01:05:16] Don't do that.
[01:05:18] Let the days off come through life.
[01:05:22] And then you don't have to freak out about it.
[01:05:24] You just go, oh cool, I got a day off day to rest.
[01:05:25] Cool.
[01:05:26] I'm going to travel.
[01:05:27] You know, I'm going to miss a workout today.
[01:05:29] I'm just going to take it as a day to rest.
[01:05:31] So but I do.
[01:05:32] I work out every day.
[01:05:33] And part of that is going off instinct of what I feel like of what type of workout
[01:05:39] I'm going to do.
[01:05:41] And by that, sometimes I mean, I don't feel like doing a certain kind of workout.
[01:05:47] Therefore I'm going to do it because it's punishment for being weak.
[01:05:52] And then there's some from like, you know what, I do not want to do that kind of workout
[01:05:55] today because I feel an impending injury.
[01:05:57] Oh yeah.
[01:05:58] So like, hey, I'm going to lift real heavy today.
[01:06:01] No, not today.
[01:06:02] I'm tight.
[01:06:03] I'm sore.
[01:06:04] I'm going to not do that type of workout today.
[01:06:06] So it's a little combination of instinct and discipline versus freedom of, you know, what
[01:06:14] this is going to be too much for you today.
[01:06:16] I don't want to lift heavy today or I don't feel it.
[01:06:18] Sometimes I feel like lifting heavy.
[01:06:20] You know, in other words, I'm maybe drained.
[01:06:23] I'm drained to do some kind of a endurance type workout or a mat.
[01:06:27] So I'm just going to go in there and just just do some singles.
[01:06:30] But then some days, you feel, you know, I'm, I don't feel like putting any heavy weight
[01:06:34] up today.
[01:06:35] I'm going to go in there and do something lighter, but maybe higher repetitions and that
[01:06:37] type of things.
[01:06:38] So I'm doing that every day.
[01:06:40] You know, calisthenics.
[01:06:42] Sometimes I'm doing a combination of all three symptoms and doing one.
[01:06:44] So that's just how I'm getting after it.
[01:06:47] And again, I think at some point I'm going to write an ebook because the publishing
[01:06:52] process and the publishing will all be real pain.
[01:06:55] And the ebook's not any book.
[01:06:58] Any book is easier.
[01:06:59] It's easier to do.
[01:07:00] You do it.
[01:07:01] You produce it.
[01:07:02] You just put it through Amazon and Amazon just says, oh cool, you sound like I could
[01:07:05] sound for like three bucks.
[01:07:06] Oh, dang.
[01:07:07] And then anyone can want some could just get it.
[01:07:10] And it doesn't have to be.
[01:07:11] I don't feel bad if I don't.
[01:07:12] You know, if it's not the, it's something that I could do the way I wanted to do.
[01:07:16] I don't have to, I don't have to, like, I don't have to make it a certain length.
[01:07:21] Oh.
[01:07:22] Like, no, it's man, it's three bucks.
[01:07:23] You know, it's 28 pages.
[01:07:25] That's the information I have.
[01:07:27] It's not, you know, if someone said, hey, Jock, we want you to write a fitness book, then
[01:07:31] that's going to be 127 pages.
[01:07:33] And it's going to have a bunch of things in it that I want to talk about.
[01:07:37] Because it's not that complicated.
[01:07:39] Right.
[01:07:40] So 27 pages ebook downloaded.
[01:07:45] Print it out.
[01:07:46] Everybody can have it.
[01:07:47] Cost three bucks.
[01:07:48] People are stoked.
[01:07:49] We're all good.
[01:07:51] People can stop asking me what my workouts are like.
[01:07:54] Because everybody wants to know that.
[01:07:55] I don't know why I'm not, you know, some incredible athlete, you know.
[01:07:59] So here's my workouts.
[01:08:02] And so that's what I'm thinking to do.
[01:08:05] Then again, that's, that's, I've been thinking about actually getting someone and saying,
[01:08:10] hey, you seem like a capable human, help me write a little ebook.
[01:08:14] I'm going to tell you what to put in it and you do it.
[01:08:17] Why, so it like sounds dope or what?
[01:08:19] No, no, no, just so it gets done.
[01:08:21] Because right now I'm busy.
[01:08:22] Right.
[01:08:23] So I've got to move that up.
[01:08:24] I've got to move that up on my chart.
[01:08:25] Because I know people want to get out of that.
[01:08:30] Okay.
[01:08:31] So then on top of the work now, there's this surfing, which if there's waves, I'm surfing.
[01:08:37] Right.
[01:08:38] That's just the way it goes.
[01:08:39] If there's good waves, I'm surfing.
[01:08:40] There's not always good waves.
[01:08:42] But if there's waves, I'm surfing.
[01:08:43] One thing I need to do more of is just go out and paddle.
[01:08:46] I need to do that.
[01:08:47] And we'll just go out.
[01:08:48] So you're constantly in shape.
[01:08:49] Because paddling a surfboard is a different kind of conditioning for anything else.
[01:08:52] Yeah, just to be in shape for paddling.
[01:08:54] Kind of like I've been saying, hey, if you want to get good or hump on a rucksack, then
[01:08:59] just hump a rucksack.
[01:09:00] That if you want to get good at doing poles too well, if you want to be good at paddling a surfboard,
[01:09:04] you got to paddle a surfboard.
[01:09:05] So you always feel weak when the big waves come in.
[01:09:08] You haven't surfed in a while.
[01:09:10] And you feel weak because you haven't been paddling.
[01:09:11] You've practiced the discipline.
[01:09:13] So I should be paddling more.
[01:09:16] And then we get to the the jujitsu.
[01:09:18] The roll.
[01:09:19] The jujitsu.
[01:09:20] So I roll if I'm home.
[01:09:22] I'm going to the gym and I'm training.
[01:09:25] You know, we usually do some technique.
[01:09:29] I usually get a little something from Jeff or from Dean.
[01:09:35] And you know, Dean and Jeff, the what's crazy is you can always learn something.
[01:09:42] It still freaks me out.
[01:09:44] Yeah.
[01:09:45] Because it's not like when I say learn something, I'm not like saying that they're teaching me some new variation
[01:09:50] to the go go plachia.
[01:09:52] Right?
[01:09:53] Yeah.
[01:09:54] No.
[01:09:55] They're teaching like Dean will say, hey, when you put the guillotine on over here, make this adjustment.
[01:10:00] Or when you're passing the guard, do this here.
[01:10:03] Like some simple thing or Jeff or Jeff, whoever was, I said, hey, Jeff, teach my son the
[01:10:09] the dars choke.
[01:10:11] And I just watched him give my son, you know, like a seven minute class on the dars choke.
[01:10:16] Now my son, you know, can you imagine you're getting your nine years old and you're getting a personal class on the dars choke from Jeff
[01:10:25] color, but my son, you know, he just thinks that's normal.
[01:10:28] But I'm watching and I remember Jeff was just going over little details and all.
[01:10:33] Stuff that I did not know.
[01:10:35] Chuck will relearn in the dars.
[01:10:37] Really learning the dars choke.
[01:10:38] And so there's always these little things and I always, I'm surprised at the obviousness of those things.
[01:10:44] And actually, it does happen occasionally in the other direction.
[01:10:47] You know, Dean was going through a slump race really having a hard time passing my guard.
[01:10:53] And I just said, hey, man, you've been doing why just do X.
[01:10:59] And you could see I saw this face because he has a mutant grappling mind.
[01:11:04] Like I saw in his face as soon as I told him that it was like being, it was like connection made.
[01:11:08] And he instantly started passing my guard again.
[01:11:11] I don't understand the damn, but yeah, you get these little obvious things.
[01:11:17] You get the, you get the, the learning.
[01:11:21] So you always trying to learn a little something and then you know there's the situational drills of going in.
[01:11:26] And then there's a thinners the reality.
[01:11:29] Here's the reality, man.
[01:11:30] I like to roll.
[01:11:32] Yeah.
[01:11:32] I like to roll.
[01:11:33] That's the reality of it.
[01:11:35] I enjoy training.
[01:11:37] Not starting. I'm not starting in one position and going into, no, I like to train.
[01:11:42] That's what I like to do. That's what I love about your jitsu.
[01:11:44] So I like to roll and I roll.
[01:11:46] And whenever I go in, my goal is to roll.
[01:11:49] And the same way that I will, some nights I go in like there was,
[01:11:54] some days I go in or nights and, and, you know, normal night I just feel like roll and so I go in and roll.
[01:12:01] Some days I'm like, you know what, man, I'm not feeling it today.
[01:12:05] I'm going to get it on and I'll force myself.
[01:12:08] That kind of, that's kind of like when you're kid and you start crying or something and you dad tells you,
[01:12:13] I'll give you something to cry about.
[01:12:19] Yeah.
[01:12:20] It's like that.
[01:12:21] It's like, oh, you don't feel like it.
[01:12:23] I'll give you something to not feel good or whatever.
[01:12:25] That's right.
[01:12:26] It is that.
[01:12:27] And like a couple weeks ago, I said to my, I got there and I did not feel like rolling and I said to myself,
[01:12:34] I'm not going to stop until everybody stops.
[01:12:37] And so, you know, the last, you know, so we start with 20 guys on the mat and then after three rounds,
[01:12:41] there's, you know, 15 guys or 16 guys on the mat and then it down day 10 and then eight and then four and then it's me and one other guy.
[01:12:50] I'm like, looks like it's you got the last round, my friend.
[01:12:53] But I just did that to myself.
[01:12:54] It's a little form of, it's a little form of exercising a little discipline.
[01:12:58] But that being said, there's days where I go in and I don't feel it and I don't feel as a different sense
[01:13:03] that I have, which is today's not going to be a good day.
[01:13:06] Today I'm going to tweak something today.
[01:13:08] I'm two, I'm two, ward down or whatever.
[01:13:11] And so I'll go, I'll do some rolls and then I'll just, I'll just leave it at that.
[01:13:16] You know, I won't force myself to stay on the mat forever.
[01:13:19] So I do again, I use that instinct of of what I am feeling to make a decision on how it's going to go down.
[01:13:28] Just went one day, Greg, he randomly came in and he was like, yeah, I feel like I just feel like I'm going to break my toe today.
[01:13:37] Yeah, sounds weird right? He said that.
[01:13:39] Yeah.
[01:13:40] I feel like, and I was like, oh yeah, you just feel that? He was like, yeah, I just feel like it.
[01:13:44] That day, I broke my toe.
[01:13:48] I never really break it. It was like kind of touching it or something like that, but it's with us weird right?
[01:13:54] I know, way different point, but still.
[01:13:57] So my workout's all go through it real fast, different than yours, I work out average five days a week, but.
[01:14:07] They're not everything all in one.
[01:14:10] So if I roll three days, I'll lift and do mat content cardio and that kind of stuff two days.
[01:14:17] Really? Yeah. So I don't do like, what do you do with all your free time, man?
[01:14:22] Make videos.
[01:14:23] Right, right.
[01:14:25] Hang with the BAM.
[01:14:27] So you really, how many times a week do you train?
[01:14:29] Three.
[01:14:30] Two jits here.
[01:14:31] Three sometimes too.
[01:14:32] Unless I'm like super busy then one.
[01:14:35] Yeah.
[01:14:36] But yeah, back when I was competing, I was doing six.
[01:14:38] Yeah.
[01:14:39] And now it's like two days, not two days train, but I'll do running lifting conditioning.
[01:14:43] Yeah.
[01:14:44] And then a different session.
[01:14:46] I do jits in whatever, you know, that entails.
[01:14:49] Same thing as you.
[01:14:50] You know, do some technique, but I'll typically.
[01:14:53] Hey, how many rounds do you think like on a typical day?
[01:14:56] You know how you'll do some technique, a little class or training session, even.
[01:15:00] You'll do some technique.
[01:15:01] Maybe some drills six and then rounds, right?
[01:15:05] So you do six rounds.
[01:15:06] That's solid.
[01:15:07] What?
[01:15:07] Five minutes.
[01:15:08] Six or six, six minute rounds.
[01:15:10] Yeah.
[01:15:11] It's kind of like what I thought.
[01:15:11] It's, yeah, it's strange because at one time we did like, we had the gym was closed,
[01:15:16] but we had, you know, an open mat.
[01:15:18] But it wasn't an open mat.
[01:15:19] It was like, hey, we're going to train.
[01:15:20] Yeah.
[01:15:21] And we did wait, we who just a bunch of.
[01:15:22] You were probably there.
[01:15:23] I don't know.
[01:15:24] I don't remember.
[01:15:25] But we did.
[01:15:26] Six.
[01:15:27] Six minute rounds.
[01:15:28] No, ghee.
[01:15:29] And then six, six minute rounds.
[01:15:31] We do that.
[01:15:32] Yeah.
[01:15:33] I usually don't get tired.
[01:15:34] Yeah.
[01:15:35] I got tired that day.
[01:15:36] Yeah.
[01:15:37] Yeah.
[01:15:38] I got tired that day.
[01:15:39] Yeah.
[01:15:40] How's it?
[01:15:41] Okay.
[01:15:42] So I, I'd go to, I haven't been to autism.
[01:15:44] No, no, a few months now.
[01:15:46] But I'd go there.
[01:15:47] Like, when they're trained for ADCC and, and I'd go there once a week.
[01:15:51] Once a week, once every two weeks, just for one.
[01:15:53] And so they do stuff like in every single time I've been there.
[01:15:58] It's been one of these things.
[01:16:00] Ten, uh, six, 10s, six rounds of 10 minutes each.
[01:16:05] Um, 30 seconds in between one and then one minute between the next one.
[01:16:09] You know, it goes to, or five, ten minute rounds.
[01:16:15] You know, four, ten minute, or minute rounds.
[01:16:17] And then one, twenty minute rounds.
[01:16:20] Those, you get tired.
[01:16:21] Yeah.
[01:16:22] I have a conditioning because what, when we do 20, like when I'm, when Dean's getting ready for
[01:16:27] ACC or whoever we got, that's doing the longer or the no time limit matches.
[01:16:31] Yeah.
[01:16:32] And I'm doing 20 minutes, 20 minute rounds.
[01:16:35] I'm just good to go in.
[01:16:36] Yeah.
[01:16:37] I don't know why.
[01:16:38] I don't know why.
[01:16:39] I don't know why.
[01:16:40] But I think it has to do with what we talked about the other day, where I'm not a really fast
[01:16:44] Sprinter.
[01:16:45] Right.
[01:16:46] And I'm not a really fast runner.
[01:16:47] But if you're going to rucksack on me, I can go for a long time.
[01:16:49] Yeah.
[01:16:50] And I think it's one of those.
[01:16:51] Like I can grapple for a long time.
[01:16:52] Yeah.
[01:16:53] Not get tired.
[01:16:54] Yeah.
[01:16:55] I think mine's like, psychological where, if I know it's 20 minutes, then I'm not, I don't feel like,
[01:17:00] I don't know, confined or, I don't know, I feel like, I feel like, I don't know.
[01:17:04] But the hardest thing that we do is, like, when we shark tank each other.
[01:17:07] You know, is when you're put in, you know, I'll be, or one of our guys that's competing.
[01:17:10] We'll go in the middle and you're getting a fresh guy every, two minutes, one minute, three minutes, five minutes.
[01:17:15] Whatever the case may be, you're getting somebody fresh on you.
[01:17:18] And that's where you get, that's where you get tested.
[01:17:20] Yeah.
[01:17:21] It's, I would say a typical class, it's like anywhere from a five minute round, six minute round.
[01:17:28] Either five or six minutes, three, four or four rounds.
[01:17:31] I'd say that's a typical, you know, not a training for competition, just, you know, this is what we're doing.
[01:17:37] If you go four, five, six rounds, that's like, that's kind of a lot around.
[01:17:41] Compared to just the average, I think it might experience.
[01:17:45] Yeah.
[01:17:46] I sort, I feel like I got, I got good training yet, like, six, six, better rounds.
[01:17:50] That's where I feel good.
[01:17:51] Yeah, that's 36.
[01:17:52] Yeah.
[01:17:53] It's almost 40, 40 something minutes of training.
[01:17:55] That makes me feel good.
[01:17:56] Yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot, though.
[01:17:58] You'll see guys dropping off after three rounds out, say.
[01:18:01] Yeah.
[01:18:02] Not everybody's going to be a son.
[01:18:03] Yeah, has to do with who you're training with.
[01:18:04] Yes, yeah.
[01:18:05] Because I mean, I can train with somebody that's not that good all day long.
[01:18:08] Right.
[01:18:09] But you can start getting the grinders on you.
[01:18:12] Yeah.
[01:18:13] Yeah.
[01:18:16] Yeah.
[01:18:17] Yeah.
[01:18:18] One round is like literally like three rounds with an average normal person on your level.
[01:18:23] Yeah.
[01:18:23] And this is first pace in the strength.
[01:18:25] What's cool about Andy was Andy is he's probably my main training partner now.
[01:18:31] Got you.
[01:18:32] Yeah.
[01:18:33] Got you all the time.
[01:18:34] But for a while, he didn't work out at all.
[01:18:36] He didn't like lift her.
[01:18:37] Right.
[01:18:38] Yeah.
[01:18:38] Back in the day.
[01:18:39] And then I said, hey, man, you got to get to the next level.
[01:18:41] I hate to say, you got to do some work now.
[01:18:43] And he's an athletic guy.
[01:18:44] Yes.
[01:18:45] And I just said, hey, go do a bunch of pull ups.
[01:18:47] And then next they do a bunch of push ups and dips.
[01:18:49] And then next they do some squats.
[01:18:51] And he's okay.
[01:18:53] He started doing it in a month, man.
[01:18:55] He was a different dude.
[01:18:56] Yeah.
[01:18:57] And now we started powerlifting.
[01:18:58] So he's even more,
[01:19:00] a little bit more.
[01:19:01] But he's wants some big,
[01:19:02] these want some big tournaments.
[01:19:03] Yeah.
[01:19:04] Got some game for sure.
[01:19:05] He did good in the challenges league.
[01:19:06] Metamons challenge.
[01:19:07] Yeah.
[01:19:08] I think he took second.
[01:19:09] Yeah.
[01:19:10] He's great.
[01:19:11] Yeah.
[01:19:12] Yes.
[01:19:12] Funny he was, I noticed that where he was always athletic and stuff.
[01:19:15] And then one time I ain't seen him for not that long.
[01:19:18] But he was like, for we didn't take him long.
[01:19:20] I was like, hey, what, you know, what did you do?
[01:19:22] Because you look way different right now.
[01:19:23] And he was like, oh, I just changed my eating.
[01:19:26] I don't eat like whole containers of Nutella.
[01:19:29] Anymore.
[01:19:30] Okay.
[01:19:31] Yeah.
[01:19:32] Yeah.
[01:19:33] Yeah.
[01:19:34] I think that's it.
[01:19:35] Yeah.
[01:19:36] That's it.
[01:19:37] Next question.
[01:19:38] Let's do it.
[01:19:39] Can you please share on your podcast what the difference between lazy delegation and decentralization
[01:19:46] is.
[01:19:47] Okay.
[01:19:48] So decentralized command is obviously the, uh, one of the principles combat we have in the book that
[01:19:54] we wrote.
[01:19:57] And I have a very simple definition that I've been explaining to people decentralized command.
[01:20:01] It's everybody leads.
[01:20:03] That's what decentralized command is.
[01:20:06] And obviously that means you want everybody else to.
[01:20:10] Lead.
[01:20:12] And so this question is what's different between the lazy and just delegating everything.
[01:20:16] And what's good decentralization.
[01:20:19] So lazy delegation.
[01:20:22] Number one is delegating things that are actually your job.
[01:20:25] Right?
[01:20:26] Because there's there's some roles and responsibilities that people have.
[01:20:29] And if you take something that is supposed to be your job.
[01:20:32] Right.
[01:20:37] And you delegated somebody else because you don't feel like doing it.
[01:20:40] Then that's lazy.
[01:20:42] If, as a matter of fact, if you're delegating something that.
[01:20:46] It's something that you're delegating because you don't want to do it.
[01:20:52] Then.
[01:20:53] Then that's being lazy.
[01:20:54] Right?
[01:20:55] If you're actually delegating something because it's something you don't want to do.
[01:20:57] Right.
[01:20:58] Then you're being lazy.
[01:21:01] And I'll tell you it's actually a mindset.
[01:21:05] To.
[01:21:07] Take on the tasks of the things that you don't want to do or that your team doesn't want to do.
[01:21:13] So this is.
[01:21:15] Let like literally do.
[01:21:17] There's there's something that is hard to do or that no one wants to do.
[01:21:21] Do that thing.
[01:21:22] And I give you an example.
[01:21:23] We had to we had to stand watch in Iraq on my first deployment to Iraq.
[01:21:27] We had to stand watch on the prisoners that we would capture.
[01:21:30] So we come back.
[01:21:31] We have to stand watch on them.
[01:21:32] So.
[01:21:33] I made myself and my assistant, Patoon Command.
[01:21:36] I also put some command at the time.
[01:21:38] I gave us.
[01:21:39] I assigned us the worst watch of the night like the zero 300 in the morning till zero 500 in the morning.
[01:21:46] The watch that nobody wants because it's in the middle of your sleep pattern.
[01:21:49] No one wanted that watch.
[01:21:51] I put us on that watch.
[01:21:52] We took the worst watch.
[01:21:54] So I didn't delegate the hard watch.
[01:21:56] I took the hard watch.
[01:21:58] So there's an example of the opposite of being lazy.
[01:22:01] You're taking on board the hard tasks.
[01:22:04] Another one is when we would go shooting and we'd get done shooting in a balloon.
[01:22:09] You're not even the seal team.
[01:22:10] You got to go pick up brass.
[01:22:11] You got to go pick up brass off the ground all over the desert all over the field all over wherever you did a bunch of shooting.
[01:22:16] And it's pretty easy for the guy that's in charge to have a meeting to attend to when I found a pickup brass.
[01:22:22] But I would always pick up brass.
[01:22:24] You know, I would be the L.A.
[01:22:25] The shell.
[01:22:26] The shell cases.
[01:22:27] It's a pain.
[01:22:28] You know, literally, when you're at land warfare, it takes a couple days to pick up brass.
[01:22:33] And instead of like I said, instead of having to go back for a meeting, I'd go out there and jump in there and have the crap job.
[01:22:41] Everybody else have picked up brass.
[01:22:43] So I wouldn't delegate these things.
[01:22:44] That's being lazy when you delegate that.
[01:22:47] And another thing I'll find is if somebody's complaining if one of my subordinates is complaining to me about having to do something.
[01:22:56] I automatically take it.
[01:22:58] And I say, oh, echo, it's a pain for you to do this.
[01:23:01] Cool.
[01:23:02] What I'll do it.
[01:23:03] And it has a good psychological effect.
[01:23:07] Right?
[01:23:08] I mean, it's it's it's showing them that like, look man, I'm here for you.
[01:23:13] And if it's too much for you, I'll take it.
[01:23:15] And I've had people literally go, no, no, I got it.
[01:23:20] Because that's the instinct that people have to go look man, I got it.
[01:23:23] And that's what I would do if I complained about something.
[01:23:27] And then I said, and then my boss said to me, you know what, it's too much for you.
[01:23:30] I'll take care of it.
[01:23:31] You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:23:34] So, and that's also, I'll tell you there's also a little form of discipline in there.
[01:23:38] A little form of discipline of taking on board tasks and doing things that you know you don't want to do.
[01:23:43] Yeah, that's a way of exercising some discipline in your life and making things happen.
[01:23:50] So that's the kind of thing, all those things that that's like lazy delegation.
[01:23:54] If you're doing those kind of things where you're getting rid of jobs, you don't want your getting rid of jobs that you should be doing.
[01:24:02] And getting rid of jobs that are a pain or are monotonous or you think they're below you.
[01:24:11] So the opposite that is decentralized command, right?
[01:24:16] So you're letting other people do what they're supposed to do. It's when you're letting people do things that will help them grow.
[01:24:23] Does it help a person grow by picking up brass?
[01:24:26] I suppose there's a little character building in there, but it's not going to literally help them grow.
[01:24:29] So you don't need to delegate that task.
[01:24:31] Does it help someone grow as a leader to do the 0 300 to 0 500 watch on prisoners?
[01:24:36] No, it's pain. It's just unmitigated pain.
[01:24:41] So it doesn't help people grow so that then you don't have to decentralize that.
[01:24:46] But if you got something that's going to let somebody grow, you let them do it.
[01:24:50] If there's something that allows you to stand back and be the tactical genius and we wrote about this in the book, you know?
[01:24:59] Then, and thereby allowing me to have a different perspective on something,
[01:25:06] then I should absolutely decentralize that and delegate.
[01:25:09] So if there was a mission came up and we need to come up with a plan, I would tell you to plan it.
[01:25:13] I'd be like, echo, you come up with a plan on this.
[01:25:15] And then you'd go and plan it and you'd be all involved in it and you'd lose the elevation that I would have.
[01:25:20] So when I come back to look at your plan, you say, here's the plan.
[01:25:23] I go, hey, it looks good except for these two points and you'd be like, man, how did he see those points?
[01:25:27] I'd say it's because I had the altitude.
[01:25:29] So that's another time that decentralized command.
[01:25:33] It's a very helpful decentralized command means letting people make little mistakes.
[01:25:38] And not punishing them because of those mistakes.
[01:25:41] That's decentralized command.
[01:25:44] If I just hammer people and punish them when they make a mistake, they're not going to want to take any chance.
[01:25:52] They're not going to want to take any risk and they're not going to want to lead.
[01:25:55] Because I've been punitive with my actions towards them.
[01:25:58] Now, that doesn't mean, and I've seen this happen.
[01:26:02] That doesn't mean if I'm going to let you go plan a mission and I see you're screwing up.
[01:26:05] I'm just going to let you have a catastrophic failure.
[01:26:09] No, I'm going to be like, hey, echo. Think about this over here.
[01:26:12] Hey, echo. Think about that over there. We're going to get you dialed in.
[01:26:14] I'm going to give you some rope, but I'm not going to let you hang yourself.
[01:26:18] I'm actually going to give you enough rope to get the job done and think on your own.
[01:26:23] But if you start looking like you're going to hang yourself, I'm going to stop you.
[01:26:28] The other thing about decentralized command, that's positive.
[01:26:31] That's not just lazy delegation is when you let your subordinates lead so that you can focus upward, outward, and forward.
[01:26:41] So if you have a mission, if we have a mission to accomplish, and I tell you to lead it, that means you can take care of that mission.
[01:26:48] I can look upward, meaning up the chain of command, find out what's going on, outward, meaning what's the enemy doing, and forward,
[01:26:55] meaning what's going to happen in the future.
[01:26:57] And if I'm wrapped up in the accomplishing of the task at hand from a leadership position, I can't do any of those things.
[01:27:05] I can't look, I can't look, I can't look forward, I can't look forward.
[01:27:09] You got to let people lead so that they can become leaders, and your actual goal, and this is what people get intimidated, is to set them up so they can take your job.
[01:27:20] That's what you want. You want them to be able to take your job, and people get scared of that, but you can't be scared of that.
[01:27:26] Yeah, well, there's a quote where one guy was asking the other guy or something,
[01:27:31] like, hey, what happens if we develop our workers, and then they leave us, and he's like, it's better than not developing on.
[01:27:38] We have, and have it on stay.
[01:27:40] Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
[01:27:42] I mean, that's me, you were arguing a quote, but I'm saying that.
[01:27:47] Yeah, no, that's good, and you definitely want to set your people up.
[01:27:51] You want to work yourself out of a job.
[01:27:53] And then you've got to, you're other opportunities will come because people will see that you develop a team,
[01:27:58] people will see that you develop good leaders, and they're going to say, hey, I want you to come and do that at this higher position, and you're going to get benefit from that as well.
[01:28:07] Eccled, can you ask Jocco to talk more about the writing process?
[01:28:11] Any ups and downs, obstacles, daily rituals, and or future plans?
[01:28:19] So I know I've asked, answered this question before.
[01:28:23] It's very, all I answered again, I'm going to do it quickly.
[01:28:27] What were my, what did I do when writing?
[01:28:30] I wrote a thousand words a day, no matter what.
[01:28:33] If I had some obstacles, as the question hit said here, I would write.
[01:28:38] If I had ups and downs, I would write.
[01:28:40] If I had a daily ritual, it was to write.
[01:28:42] Every day, that's what I did.
[01:28:44] I wrote a thousand words a day.
[01:28:46] And when you're writing a 50,000 or 60,000 word manuscript, that means in two months, you've got your manuscript done.
[01:28:54] The thing about writing every day, and I've said this before, is if you write every day, you don't need to rehash what you wrote before.
[01:29:03] Because you remember it.
[01:29:04] So you can just open the book or you can open your page, you can open the document, then you can just start writing.
[01:29:09] And even I used to like kind of lead my leave myself a lead sentence that I knew would just,
[01:29:14] I could just sit down the next day and start flowing right into it.
[01:29:17] So do that.
[01:29:18] And also, I had the outline, I mean for extreme ownership that late for my wrote, I had the outline.
[01:29:24] We had the chapters.
[01:29:25] So I brought the new one I was writing about.
[01:29:28] And then it's just a matter of sitting down and making it happen.
[01:29:31] And when I went to college, I was an English major in college.
[01:29:33] And guess what?
[01:29:34] I sat down and wrote when I had to write papers, when I had to write scripts, when I had to write, whatever I had to write, I just sat down and started writing.
[01:29:43] And then it's the same thing when I was in the Navy, the Navy, right? All kinds of stuff.
[01:29:47] You write evaluations, you write operational summaries, you write awards, you write all kinds of things in the Navy.
[01:29:54] And I used to just sit down and write, that's what you've got to do.
[01:29:58] You just got to get on it.
[01:29:59] And one thing about me is my rough draft, when I'm sitting down, I just start writing.
[01:30:04] I know it's going to be rough.
[01:30:08] It's going to be a rough rough draft.
[01:30:10] That's what I'm going to write.
[01:30:11] You just go.
[01:30:13] Just go.
[01:30:14] And I don't care.
[01:30:15] And I miss spelling stuff and the punctuation's bad.
[01:30:17] But I don't care about that.
[01:30:19] I'm going to get a stop.
[01:30:20] Because it's so easy to clean that stuff up later.
[01:30:22] The hard part is getting the foundational information down on the paper.
[01:30:27] That's the hard part.
[01:30:29] And it's easy for me to get it at or hone it later.
[01:30:34] Now, as far as future plans, future books.
[01:30:38] Yeah, I mean, life and I are definitely doing a follow up book about leadership.
[01:30:44] And we're working on that right now.
[01:30:48] So that's a common thing.
[01:30:50] I noticed that your text messages are always grammatically correct.
[01:30:56] Yeah, I was an English major.
[01:31:00] And I took classes.
[01:31:01] I took classes like advanced grammar and syntax.
[01:31:06] Yeah.
[01:31:08] And yeah.
[01:31:09] So I actually, I find language and linguistics to be very interesting.
[01:31:16] Yeah.
[01:31:17] And I know that might strike some people as weird.
[01:31:20] But I really do.
[01:31:21] I find linguistics and language and the written word and the way words are combined together to make thoughts in people's brains.
[01:31:30] It's a very interesting process to me.
[01:31:32] And so I was very interested in it.
[01:31:36] And that's another reason why I studied English when I was in college.
[01:31:41] It's the written word.
[01:31:44] Yeah.
[01:31:45] You know, it's the written word, which is a very, very powerful, very, very powerful tool.
[01:31:54] I also noticed your overuse of capital letters.
[01:31:59] And text messages, but maybe that's just how you're feeling sometimes.
[01:32:03] That's only when I'm texting you certain things.
[01:32:09] Hmm.
[01:32:11] Next question.
[01:32:12] Like I'll see you on the map.
[01:32:15] Next question.
[01:32:20] Do I have to say something in real time or is it before or after any event?
[01:32:30] I think I've heard you describe both.
[01:32:32] Is it both?
[01:32:36] No, it is not both.
[01:32:37] It is not both.
[01:32:38] Actually, and if you think about it, okay, the detachment that we're talking about is when you get involved in these situations,
[01:32:43] you got to attach yourself from so that you can make good decisions that you can see things clearly.
[01:32:46] So that you can assess things clearly.
[01:32:51] That's why you detach from these situations.
[01:32:54] So technically, if before or after an event, you are detached from them because they're not happening at that time.
[01:33:00] Now, I guess you could be so emotional about an event that even after it happens, you could still not see it clearly because you can't detach from it.
[01:33:09] So I guess I could give it to you that, okay.
[01:33:12] And before it, you could be so amped up about it and so nervous about it.
[01:33:17] And so emotional about it that I guess beforehand, you could.
[01:33:21] So I guess I am wrong.
[01:33:23] I am talking about detaching throughout the process.
[01:33:27] Right, but even if you're if you have to detach beforehand, you're not detaching on the incoming situation.
[01:33:34] You have to detach from your current.
[01:33:36] Yes, being nervous about the outcome.
[01:33:38] Right, right.
[01:33:39] And that may help you prep and I'll talk about that a little bit, but the skill itself is being able to detach during the event.
[01:33:48] And I'll tell you, once you do detach from it, it's actually pretty easy, but to punch through that gravity that your brain makes with emotion and chaos and mayhem, that's the hard part.
[01:34:03] The hard part is to notice that you're stuck in the gravitational pull of all that emotion.
[01:34:08] So you got to pay attention to that.
[01:34:10] And what you really want to try and do is try and it's what you just said, trying to detach yourself before the gravity and the gravity of the emotions and the chaos builds up.
[01:34:23] If you can detach before that, then you have to break through it.
[01:34:27] You're already outside that realm.
[01:34:29] And so then it's it's it's much easier.
[01:34:32] So it's like there's quick sand in front of you.
[01:34:35] And it's much easier to just see the quick stand and just say, I'm not going to step in there.
[01:34:40] Then it is to walk in there, go up into your waist and start feeling, getting sucked down and then decide, oh, I'm going to pull myself out of that.
[01:34:47] It's a lot harder.
[01:34:49] Yeah.
[01:34:50] So you got to look for those signs.
[01:34:54] You got to look for that moment when you start feeling emotional or you know that it's going to be something emotional.
[01:34:59] You got to step back from those and get get yourself in the habit of asking you to do that.
[01:35:04] Of asking yourself, what do I look like right now?
[01:35:08] What does jacco look like right now?
[01:35:11] What does jacco sound like right now?
[01:35:15] Listen to yourself talk, listen to the words that are coming out of your mouth and see if you're being a reasonable human or not.
[01:35:26] And I'll tell you one thing that I do, I kind of see is you know when I'm in the movie the Terminator when he sees like the various responses he could give.
[01:35:40] Well, when I'm really in a very detached mode and I'm having a conversation with someone, I like see the options in my head of what I could say to him.
[01:35:50] And I, oh yeah, that'll make a mad. Oh, yeah, that's too offensive. Okay, that's a good one. Hey buddy. But blah blah blah. So I think that that mindset kind of works pretty good, but again.
[01:36:04] Look for the signs. Look for the quicksand. Look for the emotional quicksand and don't step in at the emotion of the anger or the frustration.
[01:36:13] There's little physical signs too when you start feeling the sweat beating up when you start feeling hot like you literally start feeling hot.
[01:36:22] That should be a big red flag. Yeah, that warmth that flushes through your face. That's not good.
[01:36:28] Yeah.
[01:36:30] The breathing when you start getting, when your breathing starts increasing your pulse was going, that's the stuff you've got to notice to say yourself, oh, there it is.
[01:36:39] That's the quicksand of emotion and confusion and chaos. You don't want to step into it. You want to pull yourself back.
[01:36:49] Take away there is like be like the terminator.
[01:36:52] No, I'm not saying be like the terminator. That was a, that was a comparison of thinking of being able to visualize the options that you have.
[01:37:04] And if you're emotional, you don't think like that when you're emotional, you're just you're just blurting out whenever he's going to come out of your mouth.
[01:37:10] But when you're detached a little bit, you go, okay, I could say yes, I could say that. Oh, this is answered three and we say it.
[01:37:17] It's like a problem solving.
[01:37:18] Yeah.
[01:37:18] Yeah.
[01:37:18] Tactic.
[01:37:19] You know, those should think it's interesting because on the terminator, he blurred it out.
[01:37:23] And politically, he blurred it out an emotional response because he's acting like a person.
[01:37:28] Remember that? Remember what he said?
[01:37:29] I don't.
[01:37:30] It's a bunch of profanity when he's using the thing, he's looking, he's all shut up and the superintendent or whatever, whatever.
[01:37:37] It's knocking on the motel doors. Okay, buddy.
[01:37:40] You got a dead cat and there what? Because all these flashes right, you know, so he looks through his responses and they're pretty funny. If you read him,
[01:37:46] I forget exactly with your buddy, because the like poinichos was fucky, asshole.
[01:37:51] That was it.
[01:37:52] Instead of, you know, I do remember that.
[01:37:55] Yeah.
[01:37:55] That was pretty dope.
[01:37:56] The fake emotions, which sometimes, which I've talked about before, sometimes you got to use the fake emotions.
[01:38:01] The switcherule?
[01:38:02] Yeah.
[01:38:03] Or is that what's good for the goose?
[01:38:05] It's good for the goose.
[01:38:06] No, it's like when your kid is not getting, you're not listening to what you're saying.
[01:38:11] You're not having the impact that you want to house.
[01:38:13] So you got to show a little bit of anger.
[01:38:15] Yeah, yeah.
[01:38:15] Turn up heat.
[01:38:16] That's kind of good too.
[01:38:17] And don't get crazy with it.
[01:38:19] It's far as with the kids.
[01:38:20] Where if you show anger, not only is it like a powerful thing in there, you're like, oh shoot, this is powerful.
[01:38:25] It demonstrates to them that you care about what we're talking about right now.
[01:38:29] I care about you.
[01:38:30] Exactly.
[01:38:31] You know, rather than I'm just a machine, a robot.
[01:38:34] Yeah.
[01:38:35] Yeah.
[01:38:35] I don't care, but I know I'm supposed to tell you this kind of feeling.
[01:38:40] Next question.
[01:38:41] How do you deal with being evaluated specifically by different people with different opinions and motives?
[01:38:48] Oh.
[01:38:49] How do you deal with being evaluated?
[01:38:53] Well, I can tell you right now.
[01:38:59] Nobody likes being evaluated, right?
[01:39:02] Nobody.
[01:39:03] Now, you might get somebody that says, oh, I love being coached.
[01:39:07] And there are some people that are pretty positive about that.
[01:39:09] And as a matter of fact, I have clients where they want to be coached, right?
[01:39:14] But most people, especially in a normal environment, like if you got new hire someone to coach you, okay?
[01:39:21] But most people in a normal environment, they don't like being evaluated.
[01:39:26] They don't like being judged, always judging.
[01:39:31] So the first thing you have to do when it comes to being evaluated is get that in your head that you, like everybody else, has defense mechanisms.
[01:39:41] And they're going to flare up as soon as somebody says something critical of you.
[01:39:47] As soon as somebody goes to a value of you, your defense mechanisms are going to go up.
[01:39:52] And then once that happens, once you feel those defense mechanisms go up, you got to put your ego in check.
[01:40:00] You got to put your ego in check.
[01:40:04] And then once you do that, you got to listen.
[01:40:08] Listen, I know it sounds crazy.
[01:40:10] Listen to what they're saying.
[01:40:12] Don't even think of a response.
[01:40:16] Said to yourself, you know what, I'm not even going to respond.
[01:40:19] I'm only going to listen to what they're saying.
[01:40:22] Yeah, but in to kind of actually.
[01:40:24] You already can't even take it.
[01:40:25] No, no, I can't take it.
[01:40:26] Oh, I'm saying, but I think because people will quote unquote do that, but they won't really do it.
[01:40:31] As far as just, I'm not going to say anything.
[01:40:33] I'm just going to listen there.
[01:40:35] That's actually, that's actually how they set it up to look.
[01:40:38] I'm not even saying anything.
[01:40:39] I'm just going to listen.
[01:40:40] Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about.
[01:40:42] Or they'll all body language.
[01:40:47] You know, they'll do that kind of stuff.
[01:40:50] Don't do that.
[01:40:51] So, so you're right, you got to listen and not just listen, but truly listen.
[01:40:55] Not listen, just with your ears, but listen with your mind and your brain.
[01:40:58] And with an open mind, an open mind.
[01:41:02] And then think about what people are saying.
[01:41:04] And then see it.
[01:41:05] It's important to see it from their perspective.
[01:41:08] You're not even seeing what the criticism really is.
[01:41:13] You're only seeing the defense of the criticism.
[01:41:17] So actually, get in their mind and say, wow, what does this look like from their perspective?
[01:41:22] Why would they be taking the effort and the risk and the challenge of trying to present this problem to me?
[01:41:29] If it wasn't important, are they just doing it just to make me mad?
[01:41:33] No, they're trying to help you.
[01:41:35] And you know what? Just like a joke, you know, they say like every joke has some little truth to it.
[01:41:43] Every little criticism, even if the person is your arch rival.
[01:41:48] Their criticism is built on something.
[01:41:53] So, what is that reality that you can take away from it?
[01:41:58] Even though you got to take it with a grain of salt, especially if the person like it says here,
[01:42:01] if the person has different opinions and motives, well, of course they have different opinions.
[01:42:04] You want people with different opinions.
[01:42:06] Maybe they have different motives.
[01:42:08] So maybe you think they're trying to you serve your authority or something like that.
[01:42:12] So, you maybe you got to take it with a grain of salt, but find the grain of truth in there too
[01:42:20] and find what it is from their perspective, what the problem is, and learn from it.
[01:42:27] And one of the most beautiful things about this is you take the criticism and you make adjustments.
[01:42:33] You know, how do I deal with about being evaluated?
[01:42:37] I try and accept the evaluation and make adjustments to improve myself as a human.
[01:42:42] That's how I deal with being evaluated.
[01:42:47] And I'm not saying I deal with it anybody better than anybody else,
[01:42:50] because everybody gets defensive myself included.
[01:42:54] You know, we had a little conversation when we started tonight.
[01:42:58] Right?
[01:42:59] Sure. You said I repeated some stuff on the last podcast, allegedly.
[01:43:05] And you know, and then we talked through it.
[01:43:09] And then I said, you know, and you know, I noticed that your camera work was a little bit off.
[01:43:15] And you know, it was just the point was just to prove how defensive we all get.
[01:43:19] Can we all get?
[01:43:20] And you know what I did?
[01:43:21] I said, you know what?
[01:43:22] I noticed that too.
[01:43:23] You know, but as far as me repeating, there was a couple little sections.
[01:43:26] And it was because we pulled, I pulled from multiple different books.
[01:43:29] And they had a little bit of overlap.
[01:43:32] And looking back on it, probably shouldn't have, but at that time I thought, you know what?
[01:43:38] This is emphasizing really important points.
[01:43:41] Yeah.
[01:43:42] But still, people don't want to hear the same thing over and over again.
[01:43:45] So I probably shouldn't have done that.
[01:43:47] So guess what? Criticism accepted.
[01:43:50] Right on.
[01:43:51] I will adapt a just and I will make improvements to my game based on your criticism of my
[01:43:55] technique, my skill, and my life.
[01:43:58] I didn't accept your criticism about the camera work.
[01:44:01] No, you don't.
[01:44:02] You don't know anything about camera.
[01:44:03] There it is.
[01:44:04] There it is.
[01:44:05] You're sure you don't tell me.
[01:44:07] Can't tell echo anything.
[01:44:09] Yeah.
[01:44:10] Can't tell echo anything.
[01:44:12] Take their criticisms.
[01:44:14] Fix the problem.
[01:44:15] That's what it's all about.
[01:44:16] You're using to get better.
[01:44:18] Next question.
[01:44:19] Jockel, echo. What are your guilty pleasures other than donuts?
[01:44:26] And by the way, I don't even like donuts. That's pure echo right there.
[01:44:29] Yeah.
[01:44:30] You're talking about, you had a donut delivery.
[01:44:32] It's sorry.
[01:44:33] Let me finish the question.
[01:44:34] What are your guilty pleasures other than donuts?
[01:44:36] Jockel, what do you do when you momentarily give in to a voice or something that you
[01:44:41] know is bad for you mentally or physically?
[01:44:44] I like the fact that the people that are asking this is actually two questions in one.
[01:44:48] I appreciate the fact that this person says,
[01:44:52] Jockel, what do you do when you momentarily give into a voice?
[01:44:56] I appreciate that as if I'm this person that could only for a fraction of a moment
[01:45:02] give into any form of voice because I am not a human.
[01:45:06] Yeah.
[01:45:07] So I appreciate that.
[01:45:08] You know, the part I appreciate about this question.
[01:45:10] The first part asked both of us specifically,
[01:45:13] Jockel and echo.
[01:45:14] What are your guilty pleasures?
[01:45:16] The second part asked,
[01:45:19] the second part asked,
[01:45:21] Jockel overly excluding many.
[01:45:26] So Jockel,
[01:45:27] what do you do when you momentarily give into a voice or something that you,
[01:45:31] and the way I see this is that you do something about it if you momentarily give in.
[01:45:36] Me if I momentarily give in like,
[01:45:38] no, no one wants to hear my advice because it probably doesn't work.
[01:45:40] Oh, because I like your sake is it just gave over at that point?
[01:45:43] It is giving over to something.
[01:45:44] Or you could take it the fact that they don't even think you ever break.
[01:45:48] Yeah, that's what we're talking about eating.
[01:45:50] Sleeves Oreo cookies on here.
[01:45:52] So that's an issue.
[01:45:54] But to get down to it, I think.
[01:45:57] Wait, what are your guilty pleasures though?
[01:45:59] guilty pleasures.
[01:46:01] Number one first and foremost.
[01:46:04] Ment chocolate chip ice cream.
[01:46:06] And especially Ment chocolate chip ice cream milkshakes.
[01:46:12] And I do some twisted things in my brain to convince myself that those are actually good for me.
[01:46:19] And that they contain just enough carbs and they're some protein in there.
[01:46:23] And there's some fat and it's actually like a full good meal,
[01:46:26] which is just a big lie because it's a big sugar bomb.
[01:46:29] Like a supplement.
[01:46:30] Right.
[01:46:31] So, but I do, I love Ment chocolate chip ice cream.
[01:46:36] I really love chocolate milk too.
[01:46:39] And there's the bindi's articles floating around the internet.
[01:46:43] That's good for you.
[01:46:44] And it's best post-workout thing you can get.
[01:46:47] And it's another thing.
[01:46:48] It's like, okay, but the reality is it's sugar in milk.
[01:46:54] And so again, I'll twist that one in my head.
[01:46:59] And sometimes for 10 minutes, I'll convince myself that really that is the right thing to do.
[01:47:04] Obviously, we've discussed on here before.
[01:47:07] Those little damn, uh, pencil wrapped hot dogs that they serve in their food.
[01:47:12] That have some kind of butter or something on them that just...
[01:47:16] Damn.
[01:47:17] Yes, though.
[01:47:18] I don't know who invented those things, but God bless them.
[01:47:21] And then, you know, you know, the normal crap foods, the potato chips, the french fries, the whatever, the junk.
[01:47:26] Okay.
[01:47:27] So, am I immune to the genetic evolutions that human beings have been through that make us
[01:47:36] desire sugary foods and the door things going off and firing at no, I'm not immune to those things.
[01:47:45] When I... and I'll tell you, when I do, first of all, I like to earn those things, right?
[01:47:51] I either earn them on the front end or the back end.
[01:47:54] Like, one way or the other, like, I either busted my ass and it did a couple days of hard working out.
[01:47:59] And all of a sudden, I'm, you know, I'm out with my kid and we're swinging by and all of a sudden, I see there's a lot.
[01:48:05] It's a great job in the corner, you know what?
[01:48:07] Hey, let's get a little ice cream, a little... little go-time.
[01:48:10] And one thing I... when I do it, I don't like have guilt when I'm sitting there, I'm not going, oh my God, I can't believe I'm doing this.
[01:48:18] No, I say man, this is an awesome, I'll desice cream milkshake taste great, this is great.
[01:48:24] But later on, either that night or the next day, I earn that thing.
[01:48:31] Put a little punishment in place, a little punitive, reprimand for slack behavior.
[01:48:38] And I'll tell you the thing, yeah, I'll be careful of, is that it is a slippery slope.
[01:48:44] And as you mentioned, like one potato chip can lead to 20 and it does lead to 20.
[01:48:52] And even that is like, okay, understand, we had a, we had a derailment, right?
[01:48:59] But don't let one day of bad food lead to another day of bad food and no working out.
[01:49:09] Lead to, that's what happens. That's what makes you start off the rest.
[01:49:13] And actually, I mean, there's like Tim Ferriss, he's got that thing where he does, it's something like six days in a row of eating, super clean.
[01:49:21] And then on the seventh day, you actually, it's not just cheat day, you have to like just get after it
[01:49:27] because your body has to get the shock of carbs and all this stuff.
[01:49:31] There's another big lie like you can tell you can twist your day.
[01:49:35] And it'll sound like, well, you know, Tim Ferriss do cheat.
[01:49:37] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:49:39] But you do have to be careful of the slippery slope that, for me, that's what I think happens.
[01:49:47] I think, I don't believe in the stuff that you, you use up your will power throughout the day and you use it
[01:49:53] up your discipline. I believe that your discipline decisions create more discipline decisions.
[01:49:59] Now, if I do just have a disaster of a day, or if I have, let's say for whatever reason, I have a two day just gluttonous train wreck binge.
[01:50:15] Where I'm just, where I just, for whatever, I lose the bubble, you know, and there's could be anything any number of things that could cause that maybe, you know, it's like multiple,
[01:50:25] I don't know, bad situation with travel, then with an event, then with something that come home and it's a birthday party and they only think it's pizza and I'm like, you know what it's
[01:50:33] Oh, and it's just done, right? Is it better to hold the line yet is?
[01:50:39] If I do have one of those situations, then I'll usually react to that, you know, I'll earn it later.
[01:50:46] If I go on a just a terrible food thing, I'll do some kind of a fast, I'll do like a 24 hour fast, maybe in a 48 hour fast.
[01:50:53] I haven't done a 72 hour, but I'm gear and up to do a 72 hour.
[01:50:56] What do you just, just clutter? Yeah, just drink water, just drink water. I did the 48 hour and it's actually nothing.
[01:51:03] It was like no problem, no factor. I did everything normal, squatted, went surfing, did you get to?
[01:51:09] There's some guys on the mat and I said, I was talking to a big Eric, you know, big Eric.
[01:51:15] And I was, I had to tell you something we got done training this afternoon. This is on the second day of doing it.
[01:51:20] And so we trained a bunch and you know, there's no factor and he's like, well, we're going to tell him and I said, I haven't eaten for 48 hours.
[01:51:26] And I said, you know, I'm just trying this out and I feel completely normal.
[01:51:31] So that's one of the things I'll do to recover and then I'll just do some kind of, you know, psych kind of hardcore workout.
[01:51:40] You know, we, a body and motion tends to stay in motion and a body at rest, tends to stay in rest.
[01:51:45] Don't let the momentum start going the wrong way. You know what I mean?
[01:51:49] Get that body back in motion, get back on track, snap yourself back into the discipline.
[01:51:57] Cross some workouts, get after it and get on that path, the path of discipline and strength and stay there.
[01:52:07] You mentioned the, the, given into the brain that you were evolved to have or when you know, and that's like seeking out sugar and fat and, you know,
[01:52:18] fat's not bad.
[01:52:19] Right, but that's what you revolve to want and it's for reasons.
[01:52:23] So you know, put simply back when you were a came in. You didn't know when the next meal was coming from.
[01:52:27] Yep. So, you know, you get that honey. You're that sugar, that, that, that, that is much,
[01:52:32] calorie milk, you get, you get as much as you can.
[01:52:34] So your brain still like that.
[01:52:37] So a good tactic and I use this and it crazed, crazily, it worked, it worked for drinking.
[01:52:43] I mentioned this to before, where you just understand that your brain is in a way, playing a trick on you.
[01:52:51] And if you give in literally by this model, you just fell for a trick.
[01:52:58] And so now you know that, right?
[01:53:00] So you're falling for a trick that is played on you by your own brain because it thinks
[01:53:06] it's your still a caveman.
[01:53:07] So you see these donuts or cake or I don't know, pizza, something delicious and fatty.
[01:53:13] You mean what you had for dinner tonight?
[01:53:14] Yeah, yeah, you see my dinner and your brain is...
[01:53:19] Hey, let's do one of those situations though.
[01:53:22] It's your daughter's birthday party, right?
[01:53:23] You got the family over.
[01:53:25] What are you going to do?
[01:53:26] Put them all on a paleo diet for the evening?
[01:53:28] No, you're going to get them some pizza and ice cream and it's all good.
[01:53:30] It's a little bit of cake for echo-chero.
[01:53:32] Technically, that was lunch and then I had a salad for dinner.
[01:53:35] Okay, good.
[01:53:36] Exactly.
[01:53:37] See, you just put your-
[01:53:38] You're just here to back on the track.
[01:53:39] Yeah, I like for that.
[01:53:40] But so if you understand that you're...
[01:53:43] You just fell for a trick right there.
[01:53:45] So now going forward, you know or okay, if I have these cravings,
[01:53:49] or that donut looks delicious and whatever way,
[01:53:53] you're about to actively unconsciously fall for a trick right now.
[01:53:57] Yeah.
[01:53:58] There's no scarcity of food right now.
[01:54:00] There's an abundance of food.
[01:54:03] And you know what's a perfect phrase for this?
[01:54:07] Don't be a sucker.
[01:54:08] Yeah, exactly.
[01:54:09] Like how often is it?
[01:54:11] Like, that's like the worst thing someone can tell you.
[01:54:14] That's what I knew.
[01:54:15] You're a sucker.
[01:54:16] That's why it works.
[01:54:17] That's why it works for you.
[01:54:18] Yeah.
[01:54:19] Don't be a sucker.
[01:54:20] So don't be a sucker to that piece of your brain that's trying to trick you into
[01:54:24] wanting stuff that's actually bad for you.
[01:54:26] Yeah.
[01:54:27] So yeah, and so how the trick works is your brain is saying,
[01:54:30] hey, those donuts, those are beneficial.
[01:54:34] And look at all these, like you'll get your calories.
[01:54:38] Who knows when they're gonna come?
[01:54:39] That's what your brain is.
[01:54:40] That's how it feels.
[01:54:41] They're gonna come when you order dominoes.
[01:54:43] Yeah.
[01:54:44] Yeah, that's the reality.
[01:54:45] But your brain's not telling you that.
[01:54:47] It's giving you a crack as you need all those calories.
[01:54:49] You don't know what it's gonna come.
[01:54:51] And look at all these benefits.
[01:54:52] It's gonna taste good.
[01:54:53] And this is what you need.
[01:54:54] That's what your brain is telling you.
[01:54:56] This is what you need.
[01:54:57] But the reality is you don't live in that world anymore.
[01:54:59] Where you can get as many donuts as you want.
[01:55:02] Now.
[01:55:03] So it's tricky to think that the short term benefits are the benefits.
[01:55:09] When in reality, since the world we live in now is different,
[01:55:11] the long term benefits are the benefits.
[01:55:13] Yes.
[01:55:14] And they don't involve donuts.
[01:55:16] They're drinking.
[01:55:17] Don't be a soccer.
[01:55:18] Don't be a soccer.
[01:55:19] Yeah.
[01:55:20] It helps.
[01:55:21] If you care about being a soccer, though, that's the thing.
[01:55:23] If you're like a soccer, about being a soccer.
[01:55:25] There's no way to find another thing.
[01:55:27] That's what I think too.
[01:55:28] Yeah.
[01:55:29] That's what I think too.
[01:55:30] All right.
[01:55:31] The next question.
[01:55:34] Jocco is budd's the right filter for the kind of people you want in the
[01:55:40] seal teams.
[01:55:41] Does it filter out good people and lighten the bad?
[01:55:46] So budd's is the basic underwater demolition and seal training.
[01:55:51] And it does a decent job.
[01:55:54] And I'm not going to say that everybody that makes it through buds is a guy that you want
[01:55:58] to work with or even a guy that you want on your team.
[01:56:02] Because one thing that happens in budd's is that punishment is dealt out, right?
[01:56:09] I mean, it's just suffering.
[01:56:10] It's just hard work.
[01:56:11] It's, you know, putting a boat on your head and being cold and wet and all this stuff.
[01:56:15] And you either embrace that and crush it.
[01:56:17] That's one way to get through.
[01:56:19] That's the way you should get through.
[01:56:22] But there are guys that they find a way to get by and to sneak by and to work the system.
[01:56:31] Right?
[01:56:32] It does happen.
[01:56:33] And those guys definitely exist in the teams than the real team guys, no those guys
[01:56:38] are.
[01:56:39] But one thing that's hard, it's hard for a civilian to know the difference.
[01:56:44] It's too as willing to seal seal.
[01:56:45] If you have your trident, you're a seal.
[01:56:47] You must be a badass.
[01:56:48] So what is it like kind of like when your coach is saying, okay, everybody push
[01:56:52] up for 60 seconds and he's looking around and when you see he's not looking at you,
[01:56:57] you just kind of cruise.
[01:56:58] There's all kinds of guys.
[01:56:59] There's all kinds of guys.
[01:57:00] There's all kinds of little corners that you can cut.
[01:57:03] There's things you can get away with.
[01:57:04] And the weird thing about buds is, and I think, Dave talked about this when he was on the
[01:57:09] podcast is, well, maybe he didn't maybe just had it in conversations.
[01:57:14] But you have a mentality when you're going through buds is that you're a team and you're
[01:57:20] trying to help everyone get through.
[01:57:22] And so you don't like rat those guys out when you seem cut in corners.
[01:57:27] You, it very seldom do you rat one of those guys out unless it's just an atrocious case.
[01:57:33] Most of the time guys are, you know, like, hey, man, are you okay?
[01:57:37] Like, oh, and instructors coming, like they'll help people skate through.
[01:57:42] Right?
[01:57:43] It's pretty negative when you get through buds and you're in the seal teams, then everyone
[01:57:48] says to a man, we'll say, I wish I would help anyone get through because now they're in
[01:57:52] the teams and now we can't count on them.
[01:57:54] Oh, yeah.
[01:57:55] And now we got to carry their weight.
[01:57:57] So, so it is definitely a test of making it through, but there's two ways to make it
[01:58:05] through.
[01:58:06] You can crush it and survive it.
[01:58:09] Or you can sneak through it and skate through it and it does happen.
[01:58:13] Now, it's also mainly a physical test.
[01:58:16] And people talk about no, it's mental.
[01:58:18] It's physical, right?
[01:58:19] There's a mental aspect to it, no doubt.
[01:58:21] And if you're not mentally committed to making it through, then it's going to be hard
[01:58:29] for you.
[01:58:30] But it's primarily a physical test.
[01:58:31] And physicality is actually a small part of being a seal.
[01:58:35] Now, of course, it's like a baseline factor.
[01:58:38] I mean, it is a factor.
[01:58:39] As a seal, you've got to be able to do the job physically.
[01:58:44] But that's the baseline, right?
[01:58:48] And being a good athlete is definitely, that does definitely not automatically make someone
[01:58:55] a great seal because there's guys that go through buds that are studs physically.
[01:59:02] And we get the seal teams.
[01:59:04] They're not good.
[01:59:05] They're not good seals.
[01:59:06] They might be a bad leader.
[01:59:08] They might be unsafe.
[01:59:09] They can't shoot.
[01:59:10] They can't handle the pressure.
[01:59:12] Or they can't handle the grind.
[01:59:14] Because you get a guy that's an elite level ax athlete.
[01:59:18] And guess what?
[01:59:19] He's used to elite level food.
[01:59:21] He's used to elite level of treatment.
[01:59:27] He's used to an elite level of rest.
[01:59:29] And you get to the seal teams.
[01:59:30] There's no elite food.
[01:59:31] There's no elite treatment.
[01:59:32] There's no elite rest.
[01:59:33] There's just grind.
[01:59:35] And you're out the desert.
[01:59:37] And you're just going on an operation after operation after operation.
[01:59:40] And some of these high level athletes, there's such a fine tuned machine.
[01:59:44] It's like we talked about before.
[01:59:45] They're like a poor shore race car and what you want to be as a 4 by 4.
[01:59:49] You can put diesel or bio fuel or whatever into that engine.
[01:59:52] It's going to keep running.
[01:59:54] You have to put the high octane clean stuff into the sports car.
[01:59:57] And some of those guys break down on that.
[02:00:00] And the reason is, like I said, is because the seal teams is not buds training.
[02:00:04] And I've said, be this before.
[02:00:08] No one in the seal team cares about buds training.
[02:00:10] Once you've gotten through buds, it's like as normal as brushing your teeth.
[02:00:16] Everyone's done it.
[02:00:17] No one says, hey, did you brush your teeth?
[02:00:19] No, we all brush your teeth.
[02:00:20] We all went through buds.
[02:00:21] It's not that big of a deal.
[02:00:26] One thing that buds does do good.
[02:00:28] Though is it does do a good job of finding people's weaknesses and whether it's swimming
[02:00:33] or whether it's running or whether it's the obstacle, whether it's whether it's lack of sleep
[02:00:37] or being in the water and the water work that they make you do.
[02:00:41] If you have a weakness of any of those areas, it's going to show.
[02:00:46] It's going to show.
[02:00:50] But again, some guys do find a way to make it through and they end up in the teams and
[02:00:55] they end up doing a couple of seal platoons.
[02:00:59] But again, being just being a seal doesn't make you a badass.
[02:01:05] That's just the truth.
[02:01:06] It doesn't make you a great leader.
[02:01:08] It doesn't make you a tactical expert.
[02:01:10] It just doesn't.
[02:01:13] It means that you made it through the training and you survived a couple of seal platoons.
[02:01:16] That's what it means.
[02:01:18] Now, there are plenty of seals that are badass and great leaders and definitely some tactical
[02:01:25] experts.
[02:01:26] It certainly isn't every seal.
[02:01:30] Because there's a bell curve in the seal teams, a bell curve, just like any other group
[02:01:36] of people or any other organization.
[02:01:39] And at the top of the bell curve, you've got a bunch of relentless, unstoppable warriors
[02:01:47] that carry more than they're share of the way in the teams.
[02:01:52] And these are the guys that have built or are building the reputation that the seal teams
[02:02:01] have.
[02:02:02] And then in the middle of the curve, that's where you got the bulk of the guys and these
[02:02:05] are great guys.
[02:02:06] They're great seals.
[02:02:07] They do the job and they do it well and they're outstanding professional combat
[02:02:12] troopers.
[02:02:13] Who get the job done?
[02:02:15] And they get the job done on time and on target.
[02:02:20] And those are awesome solid guys that maintain the reputation of the seal teams.
[02:02:27] They maintain it.
[02:02:30] And then you got the crew at the bottom.
[02:02:33] And these are the guys that slip through the cracks.
[02:02:35] They work the system.
[02:02:36] And while they're technically classified as seals, these aren't guys that are like respected
[02:02:44] by other guys and the seal teams.
[02:02:47] And quite honestly, these are usually the guys that talk the most and brag the most about
[02:02:52] being a seal.
[02:02:55] And these are the guys that they don't build the reputation or maintain the reputation
[02:02:59] of seal teams.
[02:03:00] These are the guys that live off the reputation of the seal teams.
[02:03:06] When, in all likelihood, they probably haven't contributed anything themselves to that reputation.
[02:03:14] But that is what it is.
[02:03:21] And as I always say, the teams gave me everything.
[02:03:28] The good, the bad.
[02:03:30] And the ugly and I wouldn't change a thing.
[02:03:35] I love the seal teams.
[02:03:37] The frog man.
[02:03:40] The AW Gunner in a seal platoon.
[02:03:43] The point man, the corpsman, the radio man, the rear security.
[02:03:49] Little po tune chief.
[02:03:52] Then the LPO.
[02:03:54] And the OIC and the AOIC.
[02:03:59] Those guys, those guys in a seal platoon.
[02:04:04] The ones that carry the weight and carry the torch.
[02:04:07] Those guys are in my blood.
[02:04:12] I love those guys and I always will.
[02:04:15] OK.
[02:04:16] Last question.
[02:04:19] Jocco, what does discipline really mean?
[02:04:23] Besides waking up early and how do I employ it to all aspects of my life?
[02:04:29] What does it really mean?
[02:04:32] Yes, discipline does start with waking up early.
[02:04:38] It really does.
[02:04:41] And that is just the beginning.
[02:04:44] And I always say that discipline is the root of all good qualities.
[02:04:52] But you have to absolutely apply it to things outside of just waking up early.
[02:05:00] It's everything.
[02:05:01] It's working now every day, making yourself stronger and faster and more flexible and healthier.
[02:05:09] One is eating right foods to fuel your system.
[02:05:19] It's about disciplining your emotions.
[02:05:22] So you can make good decisions.
[02:05:23] It's about having the discipline to control your ego.
[02:05:29] So your ego doesn't get out of hand and control you.
[02:05:36] It's about treating people the way you would want to be treated and doing the tasks that
[02:05:43] you don't necessarily want to do, but that you know will help you or help your team.
[02:05:52] It's about facing your fears.
[02:05:58] It's discipline to face your fears so you can conquer them.
[02:06:06] And that's what discipline is.
[02:06:08] Discipline means taking the hard road, the uphill road to do what's right for yourself
[02:06:15] and for other people.
[02:06:22] It's so often the easy path.
[02:06:26] The easy path it calls to us to be weak for that moment, to break down for that moment,
[02:06:34] to give in to the desire and the short term gratification.
[02:06:42] But the discipline will not allow that.
[02:06:46] The discipline calls for strength and fortitude and will.
[02:06:53] It won't accept weakness, it won't tolerate another breakdown.
[02:07:01] The discipline can seem like it's your worst enemy.
[02:07:10] But the reality is discipline is your best friend.
[02:07:16] It will take care of you like nothing else can.
[02:07:19] It will put you on that path, the path to strength and health and intelligence and happiness.
[02:07:34] And most importantly, it'll put you on that path to freedom.
[02:07:42] And I think that's all we've got for tonight.
[02:07:56] So thanks everybody out there for putting on those headphones and listening to this podcast.
[02:08:06] Thanks for the feedback.
[02:08:08] You give us it's definitely good to know that people are listening and getting something
[02:08:14] out of it.
[02:08:17] Also thanks for subscribing and reviewing and spreading the word and thanks to on it for
[02:08:22] the support, for the great products that they make.
[02:08:27] We appreciate that and please support them for supporting us and speaking of support
[02:08:37] another big way you can support us and the podcast is if you want to buy something
[02:08:45] anything, especially the books that we talk about, go through our website to get to amazon.com.
[02:08:53] Echo, how do they do that?
[02:08:56] Just like how you said, just instead of going straight to amazon.com, go to jocopadguess.com
[02:09:03] or jocopadguess too.com or jocobotguess.
[02:09:10] So jocopadguess.com and that's if they're going to buy anything.
[02:09:14] Yeah, anything.
[02:09:15] Yeah, the books or anything, if you want to buy some duct tape.
[02:09:19] Get that duct tape through jocopadguess.com.
[02:09:23] That's awesome.
[02:09:24] Yeah, I do that.
[02:09:25] And when you go to on it, go to on o nint.com slash jocco.
[02:09:30] Okay, I think it's an alpha brain.
[02:09:34] The cognitive start taking.
[02:09:36] It's a start bringing the thought up.
[02:09:38] Yeah, prove the mind.
[02:09:40] And if you're going to get after it on a hard workout, get some shrimp tech.
[02:09:43] Highly recommend.
[02:09:44] Do you like your bad tech?
[02:09:45] Yeah, you'd be glad you did.
[02:09:46] For sure.
[02:09:47] The shrimp tech.
[02:09:48] Yeah.
[02:09:49] You know, awesome.
[02:09:52] We really appreciate that support again.
[02:09:53] That's how Echo Charles is hosting all this stuff and paying for all this stuff.
[02:09:59] And all that.
[02:10:00] So it's much appreciated.
[02:10:02] If you want to talk to us or engage with us or ask us questions, you can find us on the
[02:10:07] interwebs on Twitter.
[02:10:10] I am at jocco willing.
[02:10:12] And of course, echo Charles is at echo Charles.
[02:10:17] Thanks for leaving reviews of the podcast on iTunes.
[02:10:22] That helps us with the rank and gets us pushed up and gets us more listeners.
[02:10:28] So if you bought the book Extreme Ownership that late for an I wrote, jump on Amazon, throw
[02:10:35] a review up there.
[02:10:36] That helps us out as well.
[02:10:40] Man, we're asking a lot of the people.
[02:10:43] Yeah, I feel like everyone was kind of doing that anyway though.
[02:10:50] You know, I think.
[02:10:52] Who's everyone?
[02:10:53] The people, the people.
[02:10:55] The people.
[02:10:56] So the biggest thing is spread the word.
[02:11:00] Spread the word.
[02:11:01] If you want, if you feel like it.
[02:11:03] Yeah.
[02:11:04] If it's been worth your while, spread the word.
[02:11:07] And you know, really most importantly to you, you, you, that's listening to this.
[02:11:17] That's trying to get better, trying to be better, trying to do better.
[02:11:24] Thank you for getting out there and getting after it.
[02:11:31] Because when you make yourself better, you make the world better.
[02:11:39] And so until next time, this is Jocco and Echo out.