Jocko Podcast 133 w/ Echo Charles: The Horrors of Unit 731

2018-07-13T18:17:33Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening: Testimony Unit 731, by Hal Gold. Get the book: https://amzn.to/2N6YEQS 0:11:24 - Unit 731, By Pete Williams. Get the book: https://amzn.to/2ztQMqL 1:40:33 - Final thoughts and take-aways. 1:44:39 - Support. http://www.jockostore.com

AI summary of episode

I didn't want to get my clothes dirty from him I wanted to look sharp he went down as far as the operating table but didn't want to lie down a nurse using broken chinese told him we're using ether it won't hurt so lie down she gave me a rise smile when she said that she had been working there for a long time and when I happened to meet her again much later and asked her about it she didn't remember she was handling so many vivis sections it was routine people who repeat evil acts do not remember them there is no sense of wrongdoing war means this also war is not just shooting in order for Japan to win all the chinese were made prisoners women's bellies were cut open homes were burned if you couldn't do this then you weren't a loyal soldier of the emperor even if one despises an act one must bear it from there a person becomes accustomed to it we all received practiced it was normal to smile at this the crimes committed during our aggressive wars are forgotten gone from memory at the time they were considered right so the surgery began the man was given ether and dissected his appendix was so small that it was like looking for a burling worm I had to cut and search repeatedly the blood flow was stopped nerves were cut bones were cut with a saw and a tracheotomy was performed blood and air escape from his body the blood came foaming up practice time was two hours the man died and his body was thrown into a hole and buried that was my first crime after that it was easy eventually I dissected 14 chinese I also saw vivis sections once I saw about 40 doctors gathered there was a man bound and squatting the guard asked the doctors are you ready and the prisoner was laid out without anesthetic two cuts were made down as belly the victim made a few gas the dissection was a botch and he died soon I saw four people dissected that way it is said that there are that there were 20 million victims of the war in China but only 10 to 20% of these were killed in gunfire exchange most non-resisting old people women and children were captured and slaughtered prisoners of war could not be taken to the front or allowed to escape so they were killed in the manner of the rape of NAN King those who were a part of it do not come forward to tell the people how it was why because the Japanese have forgotten all about it everybody's forgotten they did things and got medals and they don't think they did anything worse than kicking a dog they weren't bothered because they never considered a dreadful thing to take a scalpel and cut open a living person and this will be the last piece of testimony that I read and this was a soldier that was attached to unit 731 named O'Hara Takiyoshi and he said I joined the cavalry from my home in 1939 in April of that year I was stationed in northeast China then in March 1942 I was transferred to unit 731 I did not know anything about that unit my first duty was taken care of domesticated animals such as sheep, goats, horses and cows I assisted in researching the diseases that affect these animals I saw tests in which Maruta were tied to crosses in a large circle as planes flew over and dropped bacteriological bombs in the area surrounded by the crosses their legs were chained and their bodies tied tightly we observed the tests from a distance of about 200 meters I had the job of cleaning up and disinfecting after the experiments and gathering to bring lying around I want people who come to this exhibition to tell their children and grandchildren that there is nothing more stupid and fearful then more nothing more stupid and fearful then more and I think that's a good quote to end this except for it is wrong it is wrong because as stupid and as fearful and as reprehensible as war is there is something worse than war and that is allowing this kind of evil to exist as bad as war is and war is awful war is hell and I have said that over and over again as have many others but there are worse things than war things like unit 731 things like the Nazi concentration camps things like the rape of Nand King there are things that are worse than war and there are times when war is not only justified but it is a moral obligation and I do not say that lightly but when evil and when darkness and when malevolent and demonic spirits rise to power they must be stopped in the responsibility for that lies within all of us every day to do our best to do our best to move the world away from the darkness and the demons that linger inside men's minds and move the world toward the light and toward what is good okay we drop the atomic bombs this just kind of makes that a close deal in my mind you know you got people that are trying to they got enough enough biological weapon treated in fact half the world so and again jumping forward in this book get the book so that you can get the whole story but there's a massive infestigation that takes place to find out what's going on there's little leeks they they catch wind of little bit of it but not a lot of it and at one point there interrogating ishi and here's ishi did not any involvement our work was to protect soldiers he said did anyone else concerned themselves with biological warfare against crop plants I do not know replied ishi his interrogator made no effort to pursue the matter Thompson of veterinarian by training turned the questions of biological warfare against animals we did not do any experiments on large large animals said ishi we used small animals as test animals besides we had no veterinarians what field tests were made with the plague organism he asked due to the danger of it there were no field experiments with that organism there were great many field mice in menturia and it would have been dangerous to conduct field experiments with plague because the field mice would very easily carry the organism since started an epidemic we conducted the experiments with plague in the laboratory said ishi what kind of experiments Thompson acquired we put rats and cages inside the room and sprayed the whole room with plague bacteria this was to determine how the rats became infected whether through the eyes knows mouth or through the skin what did you find out the test results were not too favorable we usually got 10% infection by which way that was the total said ishi misunderstanding the question what route was most effective Thompson repeated through the nose said ishi also through an open wound so they're interrogating he's been pretty he's lying he's covering up but there's there's a twist that we're going to see unfold here and I'll explain it a little bit so it makes sense as it comes forth the twist in this story is that the cold war was about to start the cold war was now starting and America these experiments that had taken place and knowledge had been gained through this through these evil experiments well and I'll catch myself doing and it'll take along as I don't know like brother it's not even necessary and in fact and some people they will bring up this point which is a good point where I put stuff commonly right for okay warpath or take warpath for example I put the walls crumbling in Jacoen Dean rolling and when they when they clash like the walls come chattering down it's all these special effects which is like cool when you look at but all the special effects the sound effects and like all this stuff is like is it kind of getting in the way of the message because the message is like you're saying something specific you know but I'll give a brief synopsis of it one of the problems is if you charge someone with war crimes and you put them on trial well you've got to say with their own what the war crimes are that they committed and if you say that the war crimes were committed were these experiments with chemical and biological weapons then people are going to know what the results of the experiments were and that means the knowledge is going to be out there and the knowledge could fall into the hands of people that we were now looking to be facing in another war which ended up being the cold war luckily not a full war so that's how this that's how this story continues to unfold back to the book there's no question that is an individual and many of the associates were guilty of serious war crimes as lieutenant general ishi was unissue undoubtably possessed sufficient high military rank to be classified as a class a war criminal he was the top of the tree in his own field his actions as the head of unit 731 qualified him as a criminal on many accounts not only was biological warfare considered extra legal by most countries but issue is also guilty of outrageous conventional war crimes he had carried out calculated human experimentations on prisoners of war a conventional war crime that had long been prescribed in the manials of military law of every major power he'd carried out similar research against innocent civilians clearly a crime against humanity. and that's how you can put someone like yeeshie that goes through all that and still remains loyal even after defeat still remains loyal to the deposed emperor and here's an army doctor named uosah Ken this is not easy for me to speak about but it is something I must confess what I did was wrong it is also true that it was forced on me by the government but that does not reduce the size of my crime it is something that happened a long time ago but those who are not taught about the war are ill-educated the Japanese army went to plunder and steel materials and to kill Japan wanted iron, coal and provisions and the army drove into the mountains to prosecute the war at the time the Japanese used derogatory terms for the chinese like chinamen and chink and looked at them with contempt when I was a child we were told to despise the chinese despise the Koreans it's all right to conquer them we have become elite and should join with the Americans in British and conquer Asia I hated war and killing but around middle school and into college I began to think that such ideas were unavoidable people were driven into a life which human qualities in which human qualities were lost the soldiers outlet for frustrations was the brothel of the comfort women any means was resorted to in order to raise one's rank and keep up the authority of the country and in the army hospital we practiced vivis section living persons are good for the scalpel practice so people were brought in one day soon after I started at the assignment the hospital had told us today we will have surgery practice I was startled it was an order there was no getting out of it normally we dissected people who had died of such diseases as typhoid fever, dysentery and tuberculosis now we were being taken to the section room for a different type of exercise soldiers came along as observers everything started with a signal from the hospital head one chinese had big thighs and walk slowly and calmly he laid down and had no sign of fear no stress on his face he was composed someone else used him for surgery practice I went over and pushed the other one onto the operating table I had no feeling of apology or of doing anything bad the farmer was resigned to his fate and I quote interesting choice of music for this that's it now I also will say that I don't 100% trust myself like I think to myself well echo really liked Christmas music so he put it in there so that's fine if that maybe some other people will like it too and that's I'm not here to like dictate what people like and don't like I'm just here to tell you what I like and don't like Kobe the city went to his second wife had come mitzuo who wants to provide the the unit's animal house outlived his younger brother shiro but was unable to work after the war and lived on money gained by selling his country property mitzuo and tecao and their eldest brother torael who had been killed in the ruso japanese war during japan's major period are buried in the ishi family cemetery at cameo on august 17th 1958 13 years after the end of the war in the back room of a stone mason shop near tomah cemetery stokeo ishi made his first and apparently only post war appearance before assembled at junior members of his former unit he reminisced about the early days of unit 731 in a speech reportedly still rich in xenophobia and elitism he she described how his unit was to have been the salvation of japan a country then encircled by the west scientifically impoverished yet spiritually rich he apologized for their suffering since the end of the war but urged his audience to remain proud of the memory of unit 731 and here's a little part of his what he said it was in order that we could have precious human material that the unit 731 was set for the saving of the nation national circumstances were not permitting unfortunately we did not achieve our aims so even after all that even after all that even looking back after 13 years after the end of the war he's looking back and and still has the same mindset and that meant how could he's hard to understand and I want to shed a little bit of light on that mentality and do that through some personal accounts of what happened at unit 731 but again those sentences don't include ishi or the other main players at units 731 because they got kind of protected not even kind of they got protected by America and exchange for their information sort of in response to everything that was going on there on December 27th 1941 the following story appeared in the New York Times date land Tokyo no knowledge MacArthur says general darkless MacArthur's headquarters said today there were no known cases in which Japanese used American prisoners in jernmore for experiments the headquarters added that the Japanese had done some experiments with animals although there was no evidence they had ever used human beings as far as it is known here no American's held prisoner by the Japanese that mook didn't ever accuse their captors of having used them as guinea pigs in biological warfare tests so that's all not true that's all not true back to the book to this day Russia has allowed itself to bask in feelings of moral superiority over America and not without some justification in respect of the way it brought its unit 731 criminals to justice so just that's the way it flushed out now this you might think that's a little disturbing this is equally disturbing this just horrible back to the book after the war most of the scientists of unit 731 prospered much is explained by the clear complicity on the part of the United States authorities in the war crimes of unit 731 the detachments civilian researchers and other associated scientists were quite free to return to academia and it goes through this lit this multiple page list of of guys that went on to work at the research institute for natural resources chief so it continues and open back to the book and it opened admission about human experimentation allegations about the the use of biological warfare even hints about the connection between unit 731 and a member of the Japanese imperial family were all contained in the files of legal sections case 330 by the middle of 1947 how did this come about and why was nothing be done being done about the files contents so this is getting shut down that's what's happening now here's the sort of the more official opinion back to the book on balance the subcommittee felt it was desirable to avoid a war crimes prosecution and here's what they said since it is believed that the USSR possesses only a small portion of this technical information and since any war crimes trial would completely reveal such data to all nations it is felt that such publicity must be avoided in interests of defense and the security of the United States it is believed it is believed also that war crimes prosecution of eshi and his associates would serve to stop the flow of much additional information of a technical and scientific nature it is felt that the use of this information as a basis for war crimes evidence would be a grave detriment to Japanese cooperation with the United States occupation forces in Japan so there you hear the decisions getting made and that's the way it went and in the end going back to the book no member of unit 731 was called before any British or American military tribunal to account for war crimes none of them well actually not by any British or Americans because the Russians they still went after and they and when they went after them and they got some of them they made America look bad they had a big trial and here's the the state council the state council's name was smear off but it was just this weird stiffness that sort of just like I couldn't straighten it out right away when I wake up you know I can't like you know I kind of got to work it out and it slowly just started to just stiffen up a little more and here's the thing I was way less active on it too where because when I do like pushups and stuff where I'm using my elbow a lot it would be kind of stiff that night you know than the next thing you do stuff but if they're doing good work scientifically and for you know medical schools and stuff like this is obviously they're teaching people they're probably you know making breakthroughs and you know discoveries in the field and stuff that's gonna help people in general you know now here's the other way I'm gonna frame it for you is from the eyes of that mother who's in that gas chamber who's watching that switch get turned and she knows it's gonna kill her and her child and there's no there's no redemption zero check good job trying to lighten up the mood over here you're all you

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 133 with echo Charles and me jockelwillink
[00:00:06] Good evening echo. Good evening
[00:00:10] And this podcast
[00:00:13] will cover a
[00:00:16] horrific
[00:00:17] subject of history
[00:00:20] And it is not for children or the faint of heart
[00:00:26] So
[00:00:27] Listener discretion is advised
[00:00:35] I am a war criminal
[00:00:39] I served in Manchuko that phony country created by Japan
[00:00:48] In 1992 a group of us
[00:00:51] Went to China to apologize to the family members of the people we had sent to unit 731
[00:01:02] One woman now about 60 was the grandchild of one of the victims
[00:01:08] She told us our grandfather was killed by unit 731 in experiments
[00:01:12] He was killed because they can be tied to the sentence
[00:01:21] If you hadn't sent him he would have lived
[00:01:24] Your killers just like those doctors
[00:01:29] We prostrated ourselves in apology and she kept pressing the fact home that we were partners in crime as guilty as the doctors of unit 731
[00:01:38] And it's true
[00:01:44] It is just as she said
[00:01:48] Apologizing does not erase the crime
[00:01:54] We were the aggressors
[00:01:56] Most of the Japanese participants in the war were aggressors
[00:02:02] Orders came from above orders from the emperor
[00:02:05] And people were killed because it couldn't be helped
[00:02:12] According to international convention those who kill in combat are not criminals
[00:02:19] The 3000 people killed by unit 731 were all sent there by the Kenpatae or the police
[00:02:26] The American Navy was attacked at Pearl Harbor and the Japanese thought it was a victorious strike
[00:02:38] Yet within two years America had built up its naval strength again
[00:02:44] America is a machine society
[00:02:48] But bacteriological warfare does not rely on machines
[00:02:52] So, he's idea was to kill the attacking Russians with disease
[00:03:02] Once killed troops are not rebuilt like machinery
[00:03:09] The Japanese army promised Chinese children money for bringing in rats
[00:03:14] The later gave them a pencil for every rat the end purpose of all this effort was war
[00:03:26] In war the side who kills more people wins
[00:03:31] bacteria can kill on a large scale
[00:03:34] So, he's he pressed this forward
[00:03:45] And that is testimony from a Kentypai officer
[00:03:50] Which was kind of like a secret police that served in Japan
[00:03:55] Leading up to and during the World War II
[00:03:58] And this is a part of history that
[00:04:07] I don't really want to talk about no one does
[00:04:11] But of course to ignore it
[00:04:15] To think that if we pretend it didn't happen that only opens up the door for it to happen again
[00:04:21] So, this is the story of unit 731 and arm of the Japanese Imperial Army
[00:04:32] That along with some other associated units they developed tested
[00:04:37] And employed chemical and biological warfare weapons
[00:04:43] And there's two books that I reviewed and will be referring to
[00:04:47] During this podcast one is unit 731
[00:04:55] By Pete Williams and David Wallace and the other is unit 731 testimony
[00:05:02] By how gold and
[00:05:08] The history and the acts that are counted for in these books
[00:05:13] Really show what man is capable of
[00:05:20] Especially on a malevolent leadership
[00:05:25] And in this case
[00:05:28] The leader that is primarily culpable for the crimes of unit 731 is the individual referred to in that opening statement
[00:05:37] The guy named by the name of E.C. Shiro E.C.
[00:05:44] June 25th 1892 the fourth son in a wealthy land owning family he was
[00:05:52] Smart apparently very smart individual he was a big tall kind of strapping guy then in
[00:06:00] By most accounts he was a pretty arrogant individual as well
[00:06:08] Anyone to school to become a doctor and join the army and
[00:06:13] their he studied
[00:06:16] Bacteriology and
[00:06:19] Serology which is the the study of blood and pathogens in the blood and he was also a fiercely patriotic and nationalistic
[00:06:27] Individual and what that men in Japan at this time
[00:06:33] Was a feeling of total superiority
[00:06:38] Both a cultural superiority and a racial superiority
[00:06:43] Cultural and racial superiority
[00:06:45] Superiority over the rest of Asia and really over the rest of the world
[00:06:51] And he moved up through the ranks
[00:06:54] Fairly quickly and he had done some traveling and of course saw things that happened in World War I
[00:07:02] And he saw chemical and biological warfare as a way to win wars and obviously Japan as a
[00:07:08] Ironation with limited resources and so you need some advantage
[00:07:14] And he thought the advantage that
[00:07:16] Japan could get was chemical and biological warfare
[00:07:19] And in order to really maximize that advantage
[00:07:28] He believed
[00:07:30] That these weapons needed to be tested
[00:07:36] on people
[00:07:38] He believed that human experimentation
[00:07:41] was the pathway to move ahead of the rest of the world technologically in these departments
[00:07:51] And oddly enough he
[00:07:55] Gained a decent amount of clouds and prestige by
[00:08:00] Inventing a water filtration system
[00:08:03] That could provide clean water to soldiers on the front line which was a really big deal and and the book
[00:08:09] The book
[00:08:11] Testimon of the unit 731 Testimon he goes into pretty good detail about the number of people that were killed in in wars back then and how many of them would die of
[00:08:19] Diseases and and malnutrition from being sick from the water having disease and whatnot and so he developed this
[00:08:27] This filtration system that worked really well
[00:08:31] And he ended up actually
[00:08:33] Taking advantage of that a little too much and he used that technology which he'd come up with to get some kickback payments from a commercial company
[00:08:41] That manufactured the filters and that kind of got him in some trouble, but that trouble was overcome because he had some political connections that he had gained and
[00:08:50] He's gotten a go back on path and continue to gain rank and gain stature
[00:08:57] And with that rank and that stature that he gained he convinced his leadership
[00:09:02] To allow him to begin a
[00:09:06] Highly secret program where he would make and
[00:09:11] Test the biological and chemical weapons and
[00:09:17] Again at this time chemical and biological weapons were very
[00:09:22] Politically sensitive
[00:09:23] So this is in the mid 1930s the end of world war one had had only occurred just prior to this really
[00:09:31] 20 years and
[00:09:36] People remembered those those wars that war and they remembered the horrors of those weapons and and that's why international law had
[00:09:46] for bitton these weapons
[00:09:50] But he she didn't care
[00:09:53] He she was there to win at any cost and
[00:09:57] And
[00:10:01] Because of the view of the chemical and biological weapons at this time in the political sensitivity around them
[00:10:07] He couldn't do what he wanted to do inside of Japan
[00:10:12] Because these weapons are dangerous first of all, but again the political sensitivity around them that was okay because he had other plans
[00:10:19] And he opened his first laboratory in
[00:10:22] Manchuria an area of China that was at this time under the brutal control of Imperial Japan
[00:10:31] And the first laboratory that he put together was outside of a city called harbin and
[00:10:40] Interestingly the unit maintained a level of cover
[00:10:44] Meaning their their purpose wasn't made known to the world that people they advertised the unit that they put in Manchuria
[00:10:56] That it was all about water purification and they and they actually did water purification there so it was a good cover story
[00:11:04] But what was really being focused on underneath that cover was the creation of biological and chemical weapons
[00:11:11] That they could use for war and as E.C
[00:11:19] Made progression
[00:11:22] The project
[00:11:24] Expanded and now I'm going to go to the book unit 731 by Peter Williams and David Wallace
[00:11:35] Here we go and a few short years
[00:11:37] E.C's project had hurled from relative obscurity to one of top secret and national importance
[00:11:44] It took two years to construct the establishments
[00:11:47] 150 or so buildings which included accommodation for thousands of people a railway siding an
[00:11:53] Insinerator in powerhouse with tall cooling towers an animal house and airfield a large administration building an
[00:12:00] Exercise yard and a strange for bidding square shaped building known as
[00:12:04] Roll Block
[00:12:06] R.O
[00:12:08] The Japanese character, Roll is square in shape hence the name of the building although roll block looked square from the outside
[00:12:18] Hidden from view in the center where two other buildings known as blocks seven and eight
[00:12:26] Roll block was the center of bacteria production and disease research block seven and eight
[00:12:31] Had a more sinister purpose
[00:12:36] Unit 731's bacterial logical research division was divided into more than a dozen squads each investigating the warfare
[00:12:45] Possibility of a wide variety of diseases plague and thorax disentery typhoid paratide foid
[00:12:51] cholera and many other exotic and unknown diseases were studied
[00:12:55] Every conceivable facility was given to unit 731 so I think that's important because
[00:13:03] They
[00:13:05] They were getting a lot of money this wasn't like a little rogue project that wasn't being supported
[00:13:11] As a matter of fact
[00:13:13] Here so two were luxuries lavished on the lifestyle of e-she's researchers and workers in the remote
[00:13:19] Manchering plane at ping fan a whole biological township grew up. It was known as
[00:13:26] Togo village
[00:13:28] So around this unit 731 there's a whole village that got created and they were all living the good life by the way
[00:13:34] Walter Pan is not living rest of Japan is you know out getting ready to go to war or at war in various parts of the world and living lean
[00:13:43] The here they're living large
[00:13:45] Back to the book Togo villagers had plentiful supplies of the best foods at times when people in Tokyo were starving
[00:13:52] Ping fan was essentially heated against the bitter sub-zero temperatures of the Manchering winter
[00:13:58] Naturally it had the best sanitation including even western style style laboratories
[00:14:06] So he took care of his people and
[00:14:08] His people and he were getting taken care of
[00:14:11] Building a bacterial weapon E.C. found out was not an easy task
[00:14:17] He and his researchers faced a myriad of problems what kind of microorganisms would make a
[00:14:22] Effective biological warfare agent
[00:14:26] Should it have a lethal or incapacitating effect could it be produced in quantity sufficient for wartime employment could these living organisms be kept kept alive
[00:14:35] Through storage and shipment to their ultimate employment on the battlefield
[00:14:38] What type of munition would be needed to deliver the agent to the target?
[00:14:43] What were the technical and military characteristics of such a weapon?
[00:14:46] So he started from ground zero
[00:14:49] Trying to figure all this out
[00:14:52] Issue approached the problem by looking for weapons that could be delivered from altitude by aircraft causing massive outbreaks of epidemics
[00:15:01] Ever since his trip to Europe play get fascinating
[00:15:03] And I talked about his travel and this is they're talking a little bit about that here he knew would make a deadly weapon if it could be
[00:15:10] Harnessed it is highly infectious with an incubation period of three to four days sometimes up to a week
[00:15:16] The onset is abrupt with chills
[00:15:19] High fever and extreme weakness the eyes redden the face becomes congested and the tongue coded
[00:15:25] Victims can become
[00:15:26] Moniically delirious and death may be rapid sometimes within one day
[00:15:31] Compared with some bacterial pathogens plague is only moderately infectious
[00:15:37] But more virulent strains can be cultivated
[00:15:42] Plague could create casualties often out of all proportion to the number of bacteria disseminated
[00:15:49] Issue deduced therefore that it would make an efficient weapon and set about preparing the most dangerous strains and it's some point on this podcast
[00:15:57] We'll talk about the black plague
[00:15:59] Which is
[00:16:01] Unepidemic that was insane in Europe
[00:16:05] But when you when you when you have any knowledge about the black plague and you read about someone that's looking at it
[00:16:12] San he this looks like a good idea
[00:16:14] You realize that this is just a sick sadistic person
[00:16:19] Plague had another advantage for eshi
[00:16:22] Its origins could be concealed
[00:16:24] Science had not then provided a satisfactory answer to the age old question of why where for how long and how badly
[00:16:33] A plague epidemic broke out so he he just thought this is great. We can cover it up
[00:16:38] The plague hits our enemy and we you know we don't know where it came from
[00:16:47] So they are producing this they begin to produce this so large was the production plant that in the heyday of unit
[00:16:53] 731 and had the potential for creating sufficient bacteria to kill the world's population several times over
[00:17:02] Now that eshi could produce plague and other virulent bacteria
[00:17:06] Insufficient quantities for warfare his next task was to discover how he could deliver his deadly microbes to the enemy and
[00:17:14] Obviously I'm
[00:17:15] Not reading this entire book and and there's more detail about the process of getting to breed these back here
[00:17:25] Once they figured out how to breed it
[00:17:27] And now we got to figure out how to deliver it how are we gonna attack the enemy with this?
[00:17:33] He tries all kinds of different things and then finally back to the book his eye had come to rest upon the humble
[00:17:39] flee
[00:17:41] As in nature so to and war this my new insect could be relied upon as the carrier of pestilence
[00:17:49] To yield vast quantities of flees and feed them enormous numbers of rats had to be caught and bred
[00:17:58] This was the job of unit 731's animal house run by eshi's elder brother Mitsuil
[00:18:04] There's like a as I was reading this there's like this whole image of I mean are there you just think about the
[00:18:16] The reputation of rats and flees
[00:18:20] Right rats and flees are just
[00:18:22] The worst right and and it just paints this picture you just see rats and flees and this is what they're breeding
[00:18:29] Yeah, this could this is like a horror movie yeah
[00:18:37] At back to the book at times of peak production members of e-she's force were required to dress in civilian clothes and go rat catching
[00:18:49] He found a method suitable for weapons use
[00:18:52] Here's a description of the flee factory the second division had four special premises for the mass breeding of flees
[00:18:58] In which a mixed temperature a fixed temperature of 30 degrees Celsius was maintained
[00:19:03] Metal jars 30 centimeters high and 50 centimeters wide were used for the bleet breeding of flees
[00:19:09] Rice husks were poured into the jars to keep the flees in after these preparations a few flees were put into each jar and also a white rat for them to feed on
[00:19:18] The rat was fastened in such a way as to not hurt the flees it's a horror movie
[00:19:31] but
[00:19:34] So they're they're going through this process of
[00:19:37] Breeding flees breeding rats using the rats to feed the flees and and raise the flees so they can put these flees into containers
[00:19:43] They're trying out all different kind of containers and how to drop them and how to spread them and as they're figuring all that out
[00:19:51] They're doing other things as well and it wasn't just rats and flees
[00:19:56] They're at unit 731 back to the book hidden from the outside world at the center of unit 731's roll block was
[00:20:03] E-she's secret of secrets
[00:20:06] So carefully was its existence kept secret that many junior members of unit 731 had no knowledge that it was there
[00:20:13] at all
[00:20:15] For prisoners to pass through the tunnel entrance was to start a journey of no return
[00:20:21] Only two things were certain
[00:20:24] Agony and death
[00:20:29] Three of the E-she brothers and including Takeo
[00:20:33] Mitsuo and of course the youngest Shiro
[00:20:35] Worked at Pingfain Takeo was the prison commander the prisons guards were second or third sons from the E-she brothers village
[00:20:44] cameo
[00:20:48] They were called the special squad tied by bonds of peasant loyalty to their lord and master they worshiped him
[00:20:55] They called him the honorable E-she or sometimes in reverence war god E-she
[00:21:00] Most were uneducated but all were unstorvingly loyal
[00:21:06] To ensure allegiance E-she paid them extra allowances for their terrible and dangerous duties the sort of money sent home for which
[00:21:14] Would support whole families through difficult times to come even pay for their brothers and sisters educations
[00:21:22] No cameo villager has ever publicly spoken even today about their former life in manchuria the village is silent
[00:21:29] The E-she family name is still revered for its kindness asked about unit 731 older residents were
[00:21:36] Presence of we reply I have nothing to say because it concerns the secrets of the honorable Shiro
[00:21:42] E-she
[00:21:45] E-she based his unit in remote northern manchuria so he could experiment on human beings
[00:21:51] Therein what was a police state he could be given an uninterrupted supply of human guinea pigs
[00:21:59] With a unique data gained from the human experiments E-she believed Japan could outstrip the rest of the world and developing this new weapon of war
[00:22:08] No other country would have such accurate details about how ec epidemic spread or how to forget protect against them
[00:22:15] Only Japan would fully master the twin fields of biological warfare offense and defense
[00:22:25] From the earliest days E-she appears to have employed human guinea pigs
[00:22:32] It was performed on prisoners who were sentenced to death at Harbin prison
[00:22:37] Each prisoner was placed in a closely guarded cell while the experiments took place
[00:22:42] After death the bodies were burned in an electric furnace to leave no trace
[00:22:50] By 1935 motion pictures of human experiments were customarily being shown to senior staff officers
[00:23:00] Occupied Manchuria and Harbin in particular was an ideal location for supply of human fodder and I should say that so it started off
[00:23:09] They would use prisoners that were sentenced to death. That's that's where it started
[00:23:14] But the supply wasn't enough and it escalated from there just to just to normal people
[00:23:20] And here's where it talks about that a little bit back to the book occupied Manchuria and Harbin in particular was an ideal location for supply of human fodder
[00:23:30] Harbin a multi-racial city of shifting minority groups was a nest of spies
[00:23:35] In addition Japan's occupation had brought forth strong resistance from both Chinese nationalist and Chinese communists
[00:23:42] as well as indigenous mancharians and Mongolians
[00:23:47] There was also a large white Russian population caught in the middle between communist Russia and expansionist Japan
[00:23:55] To maintain control in these difficult circumstances was the job of this Japanese secret service agency
[00:24:02] Called the Tokomu Kikan and the Kenpitai
[00:24:08] They did so through brutal tactics of fear
[00:24:12] Anyone who voiced opposition to the self-decare declared a paradise of Manchuko was liable to detention
[00:24:20] Many never returned
[00:24:22] The Japanese secret service guide to the fundamental rules for interrogating war prisoners
[00:24:29] Reveals that world so this is a document which I'm going to read a couple parts of of how you torture people
[00:24:38] They're their process for torturing people
[00:24:42] Number 62
[00:24:44] Sometimes depending on circumstances it is advantageous to resort to church torture
[00:24:51] Torture the inflection number 63 torture the inflection of physical suffering
[00:24:55] Must be sustained and continued in such a way that there should be no other way of relief from suffering except by giving truthful information
[00:25:04] Tortures advantageous because of the speed with which it is possible with relative ease to compel persons of weak will
[00:25:11] To give truthful testimony
[00:25:13] But there is danger that in order to relieve himself from suffering or in order to please the interrogator the person interrogated will on the contrary distort the truth
[00:25:23] In the case of a persons of strong will torture may strengthen their will to resist and leave ill-feeling against the empire after the interrogation
[00:25:37] In relation to persons of weak will torture is usually applied in those cases when the person interrogated does not speak the truth
[00:25:44] Even in the face of evidence
[00:25:46] But there is full reason to suppose that this person will speak frankly if torture is applied
[00:25:51] It is necessary to bear in mind that the methods of torture must be such as can easily be applied as will sustained suffering without
[00:26:03] Rousing feelings of pity
[00:26:06] And as will not leave either wounds or scars. So let's think about that right there
[00:26:12] What they're saying is that the torture has to be so easy to apply
[00:26:15] That the person that's doing the torture won't feel sorry for
[00:26:23] However in cases where it's necessary to create the apprehension of death the harm caused the person
[00:26:28] Interrogated can be ignored but this must be done in such a way as to not make it possible to continue not make it impossible to continue the interrogation
[00:26:38] After the application of torture is necessary to convince the person who is undergone the torture that the torture applied to him was
[00:26:44] Quite a natural measure or to take such measures as will induce him out of his sense of pride sense of honor
[00:26:51] etc
[00:26:52] Not to speak about it afterwards
[00:26:54] So that's when you say hey look we torture you you broke and
[00:26:57] Your weak and you should be embarrassed about it
[00:27:02] Number 69
[00:27:04] Nobody must know about this application of torture except the person's concerned with this
[00:27:09] Under no circumstances must other prisoners know about it
[00:27:12] It is very important to take measures to prevent shrieks from being heard
[00:27:20] So they had their methodology they had their standard operating procedures
[00:27:26] To be a spy or dissident in Manchuria was to risk death by firing squad or decapitation
[00:27:32] But there was an alternative far worse
[00:27:36] Death at the hands of unit 731
[00:27:39] Unsuspecting an innocent people were also tricked into the clutches of unit 731
[00:27:47] somewhere lowered by the prospect of employment young boys mothers and children even pregnant women
[00:27:54] were trapped
[00:27:59] Here's a
[00:28:01] A medical orderly
[00:28:03] named Isubashi who carried out checkups on and there's a word here Marutus
[00:28:10] And you're gonna hear what Marutus this what they describe the people that are being held the prisoners inside of
[00:28:16] Unit 731 they called them Marutus or Maruta singular
[00:28:23] And here's what they orderly had to say about it. I started to work for unit 731 at age of 18 in the special section
[00:28:31] Which did the press the checkups on new prisoners we took details of their blood type it's pulse and pressure and other things
[00:28:40] Prisoners were all referred to as Maruta which is the Japanese word for a log of wood
[00:28:49] Although when they arrived they had cards each with their name birthplace reason for arrest and age
[00:28:55] We simply gave them a number
[00:28:57] Maruta was just a number a piece of experimental material
[00:29:05] They were not even regarded as human beings
[00:29:08] Most were between 20 and 40 years old none were over 50 they seemed to know their fate
[00:29:17] We did terrible things
[00:29:19] So you can see some obvious dehumanization they don't call them people they call them logs
[00:29:29] They give them a number not a name
[00:29:32] Very standard practice for dehumanization
[00:29:38] Back to the book the prison was a vision of hell
[00:29:40] Through the spyhole cut in the steel doors of each cell the plight of the chain Marutus could be seen
[00:29:50] Some had rotting limbs bits of bone protruding through the skin blackened by necrosis
[00:29:56] Others were sweating in high fever
[00:29:58] Riving in agony or moaning in pain those who suffered from respiratory infectious coughed and
[00:30:03] cessantly some were bloated some amaciated and others were blistered or had open wounds
[00:30:12] Many of the cells were communal and
[00:30:15] Infected person would be put in with healthy marutus to see how easily did the disease is spread
[00:30:22] In desperation marutus would try to practice primitive preventive medicine to escape the diseases
[00:30:29] Through these little spyholes the most act the most acute symptoms of the worst diseases in the world were coldly observed by
[00:30:38] 731's white coded doctors
[00:30:44] Marutus were used up at the rate of two to three per day
[00:30:50] The dichotomy between the doctors true vocation and the need to build a medically based weapon was well
[00:31:01] An expediently expressed by an individual probably issue at the initial assembly of unit 731 so this is a quote
[00:31:10] Our God-given mission as doctors is to challenge all varieties of the disease causing microorganisms
[00:31:16] To block all roads of intrusion into the human body to annihilate all foreign matter resident in our bodies and to devise the most
[00:31:25] Expeditious treatments possible
[00:31:29] However the research upon which we are now about to embark is the complete opposite of these principles and may cause us some anguish as doctors
[00:31:39] Nevertheless, I besiege you to pursue this research based on the double medical thrill
[00:31:50] One a scientist to exert effort to probing for the truth in the natural science and
[00:31:58] Research and into and discovery of the unknown world and two as a military person
[00:32:05] To successfully build a powerful military weapon against the enemy
[00:32:16] One young serologist
[00:32:18] Dr. Akimoto
[00:32:20] sent from the Tokyo Imperial University to Manchuria by his professor
[00:32:24] We called the horror of discovering the true purpose of an epidemic prevention and water supply unit
[00:32:30] And here's what he said I was very shocked when I arrived and found out about the human experiments
[00:32:38] Very few of those scientists
[00:32:40] Scientists had a sense of conscious
[00:32:44] They were treated they treated the prisoners like animals the prisoners were the enemy
[00:32:50] They would eventually be sentenced to death
[00:32:52] They thought the prisoners would die an honorable death if in the process they contributed to the progress of medical science
[00:32:58] I was very frightened although my work involved no human experiments
[00:33:03] I wrote my resignation three or four times
[00:33:07] But there was no way to get out
[00:33:09] I was told that if I left I might secretly be executed
[00:33:16] So yeah, and I this is covered in pretty good depth in the book. There's like a whole recruiting process to bring the best doctors and scientists from all the
[00:33:25] Universities in Japan up to Manchuria to work there so these young kids are becoming doctors think they're going to go out there and save people and
[00:33:32] The exact opposite happens
[00:33:38] Back to the book
[00:33:40] Siffelis was studied
[00:33:42] Many female Maruta's died as unit 731 in Devert to solve the venereal disease epidemics
[00:33:48] Raging through the ranks of Imperial Japanese Army as its military horrors marauded around the Asian
[00:33:54] continent
[00:33:57] On one occasion a pregnant woman was deliberately infected with the disease and when her child was born
[00:34:04] Both were dissected
[00:34:12] Crew experiments were not confined confined to the robot
[00:34:17] Five hours from ping fan by truck lay
[00:34:20] Anta proving ground unit 731's education division trees chief lieutenant coloniti took part in one experiment here are his comments and
[00:34:32] Experiment in which I participated was performed in infecting 10 Chinese war prisoners with gas gang green
[00:34:40] The object of the experiment was to ascertain whether it was possible to infect people with gas gang green at a temperature of 20 degrees
[00:34:48] Celsius below zero
[00:34:52] This experiment was performed in the following way
[00:34:55] 10 Chinese war prisoners were tied to stakes at a distance of 10 to 20 meters from a shrapnel bomb that was charged with gas gang green
[00:35:05] To prevent the men from being killed outright
[00:35:08] Their heads and backs were protected with a special metal shield and thick quilted blankets
[00:35:14] But their legs and buttocks were left unprotected
[00:35:20] The ball was exploded by means of an electric switch and the shrapnel bearing gas gang green germs scattered all over the spot with the experimentes were bound
[00:35:34] All the experimentes were wounded in the legs or buttocks and seven days later
[00:35:39] They died in great torment
[00:35:52] Miraculously some maruda survived all infection experiments developing remarkable in the unities
[00:35:59] But their fate was always the same
[00:36:02] Unit 731 had many other uses for human fodder so
[00:36:07] They talk about this in the book. I'll some people would develop immunity some guys were just super tough
[00:36:14] Just tough and in fact, there's one way to talk about
[00:36:17] They they finally killed this guy after experiment. He was a 65 year old guy. He was just just tough
[00:36:24] He survived all these different infections all these different diseases and they they finally
[00:36:28] When they kill him they they open him up they dissect him and they see that he's like got the organs of a 25 year old or something
[00:36:35] But it didn't matter even if you were resistant to diseases they had other experiments to do
[00:36:42] The education chief Nishi had some other recollections about some of those other experiments
[00:36:51] Back to the book with temperatures below negative 20 degrees Celsius people were brought out from the detachment's prison into the open
[00:36:59] Their arms were buried and made defrees with the help of an artificial current of air
[00:37:04] This was done until their frozen arms when struck with a short stick
[00:37:10] He made it a sound resembling that which a board gives out when it is struck a
[00:37:18] Film was made on this subject too
[00:37:26] Here's another
[00:37:28] Accounts of these so they were they were trying to figure out
[00:37:31] Things about frostbite frostbite and what people could take because they were gonna be fighting up in the
[00:37:37] Steps of mentuary and Russia
[00:37:39] They thought they'd be fighting there so they had to figure out do experiments to figure out how to
[00:37:45] Heal frostbite once it happened and how much cold someone could take
[00:37:49] Here's a a printer that worked there and here's a
[00:37:54] Account of what he witnessed two naked men were put in an area
[00:37:58] 40 to 50 degrees below zero and researchers filmed the whole process until they died
[00:38:07] They suffered such agony they were digging their nails into each other's flesh
[00:38:17] This was military life you couldn't say I want to do this or that in war however good or bad
[00:38:22] The Japanese way is to obey a superior
[00:38:25] It was the same as if the order came from the emperor
[00:38:32] Sometimes they were no anesthetics they screamed in screamed
[00:38:38] But we didn't regard the logs as human beings
[00:38:41] They were lumps of meat on a chopping block
[00:38:58] The Japanese way is to obey a superior
[00:39:03] I talk about that all the time you got a question
[00:39:05] We've got a question
[00:39:12] Continuing
[00:39:14] Detachment 731 had a sister unit
[00:39:17] It was called the 716 chemical warfare unit
[00:39:22] Test were carried out in a large cloud chamber the size of a telephone box
[00:39:26] Made of thick steel it had an agitator in the ceiling connected by large pipes to a gas producing machine
[00:39:36] Maru does were putting a truck tied to a pole and pushed inside some naked some in full army uniform and some in gas masks
[00:39:43] 731 and 516 researchers watched them gasping convulsed to their deaths through the chambers reinforced a glass window
[00:39:57] A young mother and her baby were even put to death in this chamber
[00:40:04] She desperately tried to predict her child from the fumes by covering her it with her body
[00:40:09] She died lying on top of her child
[00:40:23] Here's another account from a medical
[00:40:28] Orderly about other experiments beyond cold and beyond chemical and beyond beyond biological here we get to malnutrition
[00:40:37] I saw malnutrition experiments
[00:40:40] They were conducted by the project team under the technician
[00:40:43] Yoshi Murrah
[00:40:45] He was a civilian member of unit 731 the purpose of the experiments I believe was to find out how long a human being could survive with just water and biscuits
[00:40:56] Two maru does were used for this experiment. They continuously circled at prescribed course
[00:41:03] Within the grounds of the unit carrying approximately a 20 kilogram sandbag on their backs
[00:41:11] Once a come before the other but they both ultimately died
[00:41:17] The duration of the experiment was about two months
[00:41:22] They only received army biscuits to eat and water to drink so that they would not have been able to survive for very long
[00:41:29] They weren't allowed a lot of sleep either
[00:41:39] And here's
[00:41:43] One of the major generals
[00:41:46] Kawashima
[00:41:48] And he talks about the fate of some of the maruutes from 500 to 600 prisoners were consigned to detachment 731 annually
[00:41:56] If a prisoner survived the anoculation of lethal bacteria this did not save him from a repetition of the experiments which continued until death from the infection
[00:42:08] Superveened
[00:42:10] The infected people were given medical treatment in order to test a various methods of cure
[00:42:15] They were fed normally and after they had fully recovered
[00:42:20] We're used for the next experiment
[00:42:22] But infected with a different kind of germ at any rate no one ever left this factory alive
[00:42:32] Following anatomical study the bodies of the dead were burned in the detachment's incinerator
[00:42:44] So as I said there's even if you're just
[00:42:47] Tough as nails they're just gonna give you a different disease or more disease
[00:42:58] And
[00:43:00] All pretty horrible and now it gets worse
[00:43:05] Back to the book perhaps the greatest horror of unit 731 was
[00:43:12] Viva section
[00:43:14] Unit 731 had two teams of pathologists
[00:43:21] One headed by doctor akamoto the other by doctor esicawa
[00:43:30] Anatomical study performed by these squads was not always confined to the dead
[00:43:38] Pathology squad assistant
[00:43:40] Kirum zawa saw vivis sections
[00:43:46] Unit 731 did work on living human bodies he said
[00:43:53] To do this work our sentiments were suppressed
[00:43:57] So this is a whole new level we're actually dissecting or vivisecting people that are alive
[00:44:11] Back to the book some doctors are said do have come all the way from Japan just to see such a dissection
[00:44:17] Laboratory assistants got extra pay
[00:44:20] Called the chemical weapons allowance for wielding the scaffold during this dreadful work
[00:44:24] Blood is said often to have spurred all over the ceiling of the dissection room as certain
[00:44:31] Insisions were made limbs of the dying maruitas would flex and jerk involuntary in voluntarily as the scalpel entered
[00:44:39] particular parts of the brain
[00:44:43] Organs would twitch vigorously after they were thrown into jars
[00:44:47] Of formalin for preservation
[00:44:49] Not only were anesthetics researched, but also bizarre surgical experiments
[00:44:57] Connecting different parts of the body are reported to have been performed
[00:45:07] So
[00:45:09] Yeah, this is this is a horror movie that's actually happening you got
[00:45:13] Sewing different parts of the body together. This is just
[00:45:16] a horror movie except this is not a movie and
[00:45:23] The
[00:45:27] People that are being referred to as maruitas right now are people
[00:45:34] Back to the book the world will probably never learn of all the grizzly experiments that took place at unit 731
[00:45:41] Among them were pressure experiments similar to those carried out by
[00:45:44] Dr. Ratira Dacau
[00:45:47] concentration camp
[00:45:50] Presumably done on behalf of the Japanese Air Force. It was an extremely painful method of killing
[00:45:55] Individual plates in the unit 731 pressure chamber with suffered terrible agony as their eyes first popped out of their sockets as the i membrane
[00:46:05] ruptured and later as blood forced its way out through pores in the skin
[00:46:21] Maruitas had their blood siphoned often replaced with horse blood and plasma experiments
[00:46:26] It was said the number of these poor men women and children who became maruitas were mummified a live and told dehydration experiments
[00:46:34] They sweated a death under the heat of hot dry fans
[00:46:40] At death their corpses wait only one fifth normal body weight
[00:46:46] Others were electrocuted
[00:46:48] Boyle the live
[00:46:50] killed in giant centrifuges or died from prolonged exposure to x-rays and
[00:46:58] All some 3,000 are said to have been murdered
[00:47:03] Some were just killed off when there was an excess of supply
[00:47:07] They were killed like animals in an abatua
[00:47:13] Every bit of their bodies mercilessly
[00:47:14] We mercilessly used up in the name of the terrible medicine of military science
[00:47:28] Now
[00:47:31] As
[00:47:32] Is she went on with these experiments he was he got worried about something
[00:47:36] And this is what he got worried about back to the book there was a small but crucial chance that some of his weapons might not work on American or Anglo-Saxon racial groups
[00:47:52] In 1943 researcher Utsumi was sent on trips to intermongolia to study the immunities of Mongolians and other races
[00:48:00] Another had already been sent to a place called mucked in
[00:48:03] So mucked in another prison camp
[00:48:07] So he got concerned that as he did these experiments that some diseases affect different races differently and there was some chance that oh
[00:48:16] We've we'd use this type of bacteria against an Anglo-Saxon or white person it might not work
[00:48:22] So we got to we got to figure that one out
[00:48:27] Well the
[00:48:28] Japanese had captured Americans and
[00:48:30] Brits and Australians
[00:48:36] So here we're gonna hear a little bit about the prisoners in mucked in
[00:48:40] Okay, that is another prison camp back to the book or in w
[00:48:44] Welch
[00:48:46] known more familiarly as
[00:48:48] Papi came from Tulsa, Oklahoma was a master sergeant with the US 200
[00:48:53] 200 coast artillery anti aircraft regiment on April 9
[00:48:58] 1942 baton fell on May 6th
[00:49:03] So to correct or
[00:49:05] Papi Welch and 88,000 other Americans in Filipinos were captured
[00:49:10] Papi remembers it was the beginning of one of the most dehumanizing experiences ever perpetrated on humans
[00:49:20] Welch illness fellow prisoners had to endure the familiar ill treatment the Japanese met it out to prisoners of war
[00:49:26] a
[00:49:28] Proceeding that is understandable only if you'd from the Japanese standpoint that to die in battles honorable
[00:49:33] But to surrender is to be shamed
[00:49:36] But is also
[00:49:38] dehumanizing because
[00:49:40] Unknown to him he was to become a human guinea pig in Japan's experimental program as they sought to build weapons of biological warfare
[00:49:48] Welch will has to spend three years of his life as one of the 1,485 American and British and
[00:49:55] Australian and New Zealand prisoners of war who were heard it into a special prison camp in
[00:50:00] Manchuria at Mookden
[00:50:06] And of course
[00:50:09] They hiked there back to the book the route the 1,000 American prisoners took to Mookden began with what became known as the baton death march
[00:50:19] We were subjected to beatings killings forced marches during the heat of the day
[00:50:23] We were deprived of food water in any medical attention whatsoever
[00:50:28] Papi Welch will remembered
[00:50:38] They were penned in two camps in the Philippines hundreds more died both in the camp and
[00:50:43] From suffocation as more than 100 crammed into box cars on the journey from one camp to another
[00:50:49] Then in October of 1942 about a thousand US troops had been single about and marched to Manila
[00:50:56] The capital of the Philippines. They went aboard the Japanese vessel
[00:51:01] Tutory
[00:51:02] Maru
[00:51:05] Then here's a quote from the moment we went aboard that hellship
[00:51:09] They were experimenting on us. They threw us aboard to see how much we could stand and how many of us died
[00:51:14] They took us from the tropics to a bitterly cold climate and that took its toll on us
[00:51:19] They gave us few crackers and little rice to eat and I feel that it was a systematic way of beginning to test us to
[00:51:25] Found out to find out how much the Americans and the British and Australians could endure
[00:51:31] And that was said by
[00:51:34] Gregg Rodriguez senior now retired from his career as a foreman in
[00:51:40] Henrietta Oklahoma
[00:51:42] Rodriguez was a private in 59 coastal
[00:51:45] All-terry core US army he survived the journey to mookden and three years in the camp itself
[00:51:53] Now there's another guy
[00:51:55] named Robert PD who was a
[00:51:58] Senior British officer
[00:52:00] And he was also in prison in mookden and he kept a daily diary or at least he tried to keep a daily diary and he kept it
[00:52:10] in code form
[00:52:12] but here's some
[00:52:16] Here's some of his
[00:52:18] entries into his journal
[00:52:20] 19 April
[00:52:22] 43 another Japanese medical investigated
[00:52:25] Investigations started today as apparently the findings of the first did not meet with approval
[00:52:30] 24 May diarrhea is increasing
[00:52:33] 25 May waiting for medicine for diarrhea which was not forthcoming
[00:52:37] Men were ordered to exercise by playing baseball
[00:52:40] 26 May
[00:52:42] Diagnosis of diarrhea consists of running the men around the parade ground
[00:52:47] I saw some of them with bare feet those who do not mess their pants or drop from exhaustion
[00:52:51] Are reckoned to be liars and are told to go back
[00:52:55] A protest has been made and a change is expected in both methods and personnel
[00:53:00] 4 June
[00:53:02] 3rd Japanese medical investigations started
[00:53:05] 5 June anti-dissenti inoculation
[00:53:09] 1.5 cc including flessure y 8 June
[00:53:14] Diary is still steadily increasing
[00:53:17] 13 June second anti-dissentiary shot 1 cc
[00:53:23] 6 August
[00:53:25] There are now 208 dead
[00:53:41] So as they're doing these experiments and they've got these dead bodies
[00:53:45] of American Australian British soldiers
[00:53:48] They're still trying to utilize them when they're dead to try and learn from them
[00:53:58] Back to the book one morning early in 1943
[00:54:02] Frank James was assigned to burial detail
[00:54:05] This is of some of those bodies
[00:54:07] I was pretty sick myself but I wouldn't go to the hospital because nobody that went in ever came out
[00:54:12] I went round to the hut and it must have been I reckoned 340 bodies stacked there each body had a tag
[00:54:20] attached to its toe
[00:54:23] There were two or three men who I took to be Japanese doctors there
[00:54:27] They were all masked 100 percent
[00:54:29] All the time they were there their faces were covered
[00:54:32] Another fellow and I were told to lift up the bodies and put them on the autopsy tables
[00:54:37] Then they began to cut them open they went deep into the stomach the bile the small intestine and they took what look like
[00:54:46] Pancreas and lungs
[00:54:48] They also operated on the heads and took part of the brain
[00:54:58] So just a heart a heart or show
[00:55:02] So for the prisoners
[00:55:08] The end of their incarceration in moonken was quite matter of fact and again this is a fast forward
[00:55:14] And it also skips ahead a little bit talking about how
[00:55:17] How the war ended and what that was like
[00:55:21] After days of rumor major pd's diary records for August 16th
[00:55:25] 1945 six men were brought into camp this evening
[00:55:29] And from the fact that they were smoking more than the regulation distance from an astray
[00:55:34] We knew they were not prisoners of war
[00:55:37] After an unusually good supper all prisoners were released from the guard house
[00:55:44] Then he continues on this is on 20 August at about 7 p.m. a small Russian
[00:55:50] A small party of Russian officers arrived and announced that we are now
[00:55:55] free
[00:55:57] The Russian officer in charge said here they are
[00:56:02] Do what you like with them cut their throats or shoot them it's all the same to me
[00:56:08] But this was translated diplomatically as he says he hands them over to you
[00:56:14] For major pd and the hundreds who had survived the privations of moped in the victory was theirs in every sense
[00:56:21] They had no need they decided to seek reprisals
[00:56:27] It would have been said the major
[00:56:31] Beneath our dignity it would have reduced us to their level after all they had to live the rest of their lives with what they'd done
[00:56:43] So
[00:56:45] the horror show ends and
[00:56:47] these
[00:56:49] these soldiers that had been tortured and
[00:56:52] killed murdered
[00:56:54] They they decide they're not even gonna take revenge because they don't want to they don't want to lower themselves to that level that's an amazing
[00:57:03] But like I said that it skipped ahead
[00:57:06] The war still wasn't over and
[00:57:09] Here we go back to the book. Is she expected the final and decisive battle would take place between June and September
[00:57:14] 1945 when America attempted to land on Japan proper
[00:57:20] Okinawa Japan's own island bastion fell in June the month before Germany had surrendered
[00:57:25] Russia urged by Britain and America at yalta turned their attention to Manchuria
[00:57:31] For forces swelled on both sides of the Soviet Manchuria and border as millions of troops remained at standoff point
[00:57:38] Tanaka's flee factory was expanded and given more staff with
[00:57:45] 4,500 flee breeding machines and operation
[00:57:48] 100 million insects could be produced every few days
[00:57:52] Ishi plant a breed
[00:57:54] 300 kilograms approximately one billion plague flees in the run-up to war
[00:58:00] Special training courses in flee breeding were set up at ping-fain and June and subunit members ordered
[00:58:08] back afterwards to establish their own production bases
[00:58:13] To propagate plague cultures and to feed the flees rats were needed in their thousands
[00:58:18] Yamada ordered every land unit of the Quantang Quantang army to trap rats
[00:58:24] Kaurasau is new conveyor system and again I'm throwing names in here that are explained with a lot more detail
[00:58:34] in the book that's why you buy the book and read the book so you can get the full picture
[00:58:39] Kaurasau is new conveyor system was working around the clock producing plague,
[00:58:42] typhoid, cholera and and throx organisms which were sufficient if correctly dispersed to in fact
[00:58:48] half the planet between midnight and 1 a.m. on the morning of August 9th after Hiroshima had been
[00:59:02] devastated by the atomic bomb the Soviet army swept across the border into Venturia and Korea
[00:59:09] with a massive force of 1.5 million men 5,500 tanks and 5,000 airplanes
[00:59:15] the Quantang army was thrown into panic confusion broke loose that day or the day after
[00:59:22] Yamada ordered the destruction of units 731 and 100 again 731 we've been talking about
[00:59:29] 100 who was another one of these parallel units that was doing the same type of stuff
[00:59:34] a nearby sapper unit was ordered to blow up ping-fain's main headquarters the units personnel
[00:59:39] were to destroy all evidence and be evacuated to sell Seoul in Korea a second bomb was yet to be
[00:59:45] dropped on the Nagasaki so here the war is obviously turning we dropped the bomb and they go to
[00:59:51] cover their tracks they've completely destroyed everything destroy the buildings destroy all the
[00:59:56] records destroy everything and when I say everything I mean everything here we go back to the book
[01:00:04] at ping-fain marutes were the first to be destroyed members of the five 16 chemical warfare unit
[01:00:12] gas the marutes by throwing flasks of toxic chemicals into their cells 600 local
[01:00:19] mentoring and Chinese laborers who worked at the Yagasawa plant disease farm and elsewhere at ping-fang
[01:00:27] were machine gun potassium cyanide poison was also put into the marute is breakfast food so
[01:00:37] they're just trying to like I said destroy everything and make it like it didn't happen
[01:00:42] and as they wrap this up the rest of unit 731 expecting a few left behind for final clearing up
[01:00:48] assembled on the 13th and 14th at the shunting yard each he made a formal speech
[01:00:54] extoling the memory of unit 731 and its diligent research as if in mockery of him
[01:01:02] it was interrupted by the sound of a prison exploding members were issued vials of poison
[01:01:09] he she had originally wished every branch member and all families in togo village to commit suicide
[01:01:16] with this proposal this proposal was met met the violent disagreement of major general
[01:01:23] kikuchi 731's research chief nonetheless some took their lives without orders from ishi
[01:01:32] three thought they should all kill themselves got a little resistance there
[01:01:37] I would I would have thought that kikuchi perhaps would have provided more resistance
[01:01:47] against the behavior that they were occurring to you not just to you just want to protect
[01:01:50] himself here at the end hey I'm not going to question anything as long as it doesn't
[01:01:57] affect me right that's what that is on august 15th the emperor broadcast japan's defeat
[01:02:03] and surrender it had never occurred to ishi that japan might give in he had to confirm the broadcast
[01:02:11] before believing it such was the shock that according to one account ishi was seen in a listless
[01:02:17] condition utterly crest falling that day in the late afternoon unit 731 train arrived at
[01:02:25] hens king there on the following night ishi made a final address to the
[01:02:31] to his earnest wild troops he swore them to life in the shadows for the rest of their lives
[01:02:39] and the lie the candle held by an aid to camp ishi ordered them never to speak of their military past
[01:02:45] never to take official positions in the future and never again to contact each other
[01:02:51] it is a promise that some have kept to this day the pathetic end of japan's once mighty
[01:02:58] biological warfare effort was to let loose thousands of infected rats in the neighborhood of ping fan
[01:03:06] it caused a local plague epidemic which claimed many innocent lives into the summer of
[01:03:12] 1946 a unit 100 a handful of infected horses were freed after the surrender
[01:03:26] yeah you know you hear that argument about the the dropping of the atomic bombs
[01:03:31] and the common argument is always it would have cost massive amounts of lives on both sides
[01:03:36] Americans and japanese because the america the japanese were going to fight to the death
[01:03:40] and the americans were going to kill them all and so the best thing to do is like okay we drop
[01:03:44] the atomic bombs this just kind of makes that a close deal in my mind you know you got people
[01:03:50] that are trying to they got enough enough biological weapon treated in fact half the world
[01:03:57] so and again jumping forward in this book get the book so that you can get the whole story
[01:04:04] but there's a massive infestigation that takes place to find out what's going on there's little leeks
[01:04:09] they they catch wind of little bit of it but not a lot of it and at one point there
[01:04:14] interrogating ishi and here's ishi did not any involvement our work was to protect soldiers
[01:04:20] he said did anyone else concerned themselves with biological warfare against crop plants
[01:04:25] I do not know replied ishi his interrogator made no effort to pursue the matter Thompson
[01:04:31] of veterinarian by training turned the questions of biological warfare against animals
[01:04:36] we did not do any experiments on large large animals said ishi we used small animals as
[01:04:43] test animals besides we had no veterinarians what field tests were made with the plague organism
[01:04:53] he asked due to the danger of it there were no field experiments with that organism
[01:04:59] there were great many field mice in menturia and it would have been dangerous to conduct field
[01:05:03] experiments with plague because the field mice would very easily carry the organism since
[01:05:08] started an epidemic we conducted the experiments with plague in the laboratory said ishi
[01:05:13] what kind of experiments Thompson acquired we put rats and cages inside the room and sprayed the
[01:05:18] whole room with plague bacteria this was to determine how the rats became infected whether through
[01:05:24] the eyes knows mouth or through the skin what did you find out the test results were not too
[01:05:29] favorable we usually got 10% infection by which way that was the total said ishi misunderstanding
[01:05:35] the question what route was most effective Thompson repeated through the nose said ishi also
[01:05:42] through an open wound so they're interrogating he's been pretty he's lying he's covering up
[01:05:50] but there's there's a twist that we're going to see unfold here and I'll explain it a little bit
[01:05:55] so it makes sense as it comes forth the twist in this story is that the cold war was about to
[01:06:03] start the cold war was now starting and America these experiments that had taken place
[01:06:11] and knowledge had been gained through this through these evil experiments well America looked at
[01:06:18] the knowledge and recognized or saw that there could be knowledge that they didn't that we didn't
[01:06:23] have that America didn't have and and decided let's try and get this knowledge now one of the
[01:06:32] problems is and again this is going to unfold but I'll give a brief synopsis of it one of the
[01:06:37] problems is if you charge someone with war crimes and you put them on trial well you've got to
[01:06:42] say with their own what the war crimes are that they committed and if you say that the war crimes
[01:06:47] were committed were these experiments with chemical and biological weapons then people are going to know
[01:06:54] what the results of the experiments were and that means the knowledge is going to be out there
[01:07:00] and the knowledge could fall into the hands of people that we were now looking to be facing
[01:07:06] in another war which ended up being the cold war luckily not a full war so
[01:07:13] that's how this that's how this story continues to unfold back to the book there's no
[01:07:19] question that is an individual and many of the associates were guilty of serious war crimes
[01:07:25] as lieutenant general ishi was unissue undoubtably possessed sufficient high military rank
[01:07:31] to be classified as a class a war criminal he was the top of the tree in his own field his
[01:07:38] actions as the head of unit 731 qualified him as a criminal on many accounts not only was
[01:07:46] biological warfare considered extra legal by most countries but issue is also guilty of
[01:07:52] outrageous conventional war crimes he had carried out calculated human experimentations on
[01:07:57] prisoners of war a conventional war crime that had long been prescribed in the manials of military
[01:08:03] law of every major power he'd carried out similar research against innocent civilians
[01:08:09] clearly a crime against humanity. Ishi had taken his biological weapon out of the research laboratory
[01:08:15] and used it in the field he had sought autonomy and independence of action for his biological
[01:08:21] warfare forces throughout the war zones he had done nothing to restrain the conduct of his
[01:08:27] subordinates so this guy is as guilty as they come they there was other
[01:08:40] other events that took place that were equally bad and here we go some tribunals were held
[01:08:49] in China the Philippines and the Pacific Islands but most a total of 314 cases were held at
[01:08:55] Yokohama Japan at these courts a sufficient number of medical atrocity cases were heard for them
[01:09:01] to be considered as a special category the most well known and worst case presented by legal
[01:09:08] section at Yokohama concerned the fate of captured American flyers held by the Japanese western
[01:09:14] army in Q-Shu after April 1945 the appalling experiments to which they had been subjected
[01:09:21] included vivis section and the substitution of sea water for their blood for this gross
[01:09:32] act of barbarism on August 27, 1948 the nine Japanese involved were convicted and sentenced
[01:09:39] either to be hanged or to serve life imprisonment one professor ishi yama of kishu
[01:09:49] university committed suicide in prison so clearly they had the attitude of like we're going to
[01:09:59] get some of these guys that conducted experiments and that's exactly what should have
[01:10:03] been said happened and this was a much smaller number of people that were tortured and killed
[01:10:10] and used this human experience than what was used at 731 continued on called war tensions had been
[01:10:21] increasing throughout 1946 the desire to meet outstern justice at the Tokyo trial was increasingly
[01:10:28] subsumed if found in conflict with the interests of national security Japan was in the front line
[01:10:35] so to now was biological warfare on August 24, 1946 Washington cabled MacArthur ordering him to protect
[01:10:45] intelligence especially scientific which might jeopardize America's national security it read
[01:10:52] under present circumstances intelligence relating to research and development in the field of science
[01:10:56] and war material should not be disclosed to nations other than the British Commonwealth
[01:11:01] biological warfare intelligence seems by this time to have become too much too sensitive to be brought
[01:11:09] into the glare of massive of a massive international trial throughout 1946 both Russia and
[01:11:15] America appear to have been reluctant to reveal their hands in Japan America appears to have
[01:11:21] taken some extra precautions to prevent information from falling into Soviet hands
[01:11:25] so you can see how it's unfolding one of these again one of these senior officers that has
[01:11:35] talked about deeply in the book but I didn't discuss too too much his name was NATO
[01:11:44] and here's a quote from NATO we want to corroborate and we owe it to the general headquarters
[01:11:51] but we have a responsibility to our friends we took an oath never to divulge information on human
[01:11:57] experiments we are afraid some of us will be prosecuted as war criminals we do not know how much
[01:12:03] others will be willing to give us if you can give us documentary immunity probably we can get everything
[01:12:13] the subordinates not the section chiefs know all the details if we contact someone who is a
[01:12:18] communist he is liable to tell the Russians the Japanese were given insurances that war crimes
[01:12:27] would not be involved
[01:12:34] MacArthur sent a five again fast forward from MacArthur sent a five part radio message to
[01:12:39] Washington showing the extent of his knowledge clear from part five they have the whole the whole
[01:12:44] message in the book it is clear from part five of the message that MacArthur favored gaining the
[01:12:49] biological warfare technical information by offering the assurances that data would not be employed
[01:12:56] at war crimes trials and here's E.C. I will not reveal the information to the Russians
[01:13:04] you can see how this is unfold this is like one of those horrible when a crime gets committed
[01:13:13] in for whatever little technicality people are getting off that's exactly what's going on
[01:13:18] and you can hear it unfolding and I mean it does national security trump the it's almost like an
[01:13:27] ego move right it's almost like an ego move you're going to make these guys pay it's also a
[01:13:31] morality move and it's a justice it's a guess beyond ego and beyond it's justice these guys
[01:13:37] were criminals these guys did heinous things to other human beings and they should pay and as strong
[01:13:43] as that case is it didn't seem to hold up to the case of national security we want to have this
[01:13:50] information not that we were going to use it but we better have it better to have it and not
[01:13:56] need it the need and not have it's better to have it yourself and not let your enemy have it
[01:14:00] which is the Russians at this point yeah so that's where the decisions getting made yeah so you
[01:14:05] got to kind of consider what's more important like this justice yeah that's exactly the question
[01:14:10] and answers pretty clear what the what the answer is safety right the I mean security
[01:14:18] yeah you can get all the justice yeah you can get all the justice you want but that it's
[01:14:23] going to create some serious problems in the future is kind of like you know is it worth it yeah and
[01:14:31] here's the issue talking some more I cannot give detailed technical data all the records were destroyed
[01:14:36] I never did know many details and I forgot in what I knew I can give you general results
[01:14:42] I've never heard of onto that's another base that they used until I returned to ping fan in
[01:14:48] 1945 I did not visit the location I am responsible for all that went on at ping fan I am willing to
[01:14:54] shoulder all responsibility neither my superiors or my subordinates had anything to do with issuing
[01:14:59] instructions for experiments if you ask me specific questions I can tell you general results
[01:15:06] I am wholly responsible for ping fan I do not want to see any of my subordinates or
[01:15:09] superiors getting trouble for what occurred if you will give me documentary immunity for myself
[01:15:16] superiors subordinates and subordinates I can get you all the information for you
[01:15:24] so he's he's making a deal he's making a deal I said look I'm responsible for everything
[01:15:29] and what he's doing is saying look I'm responsible for everything and if you give me immunity I'll
[01:15:34] get you all the information you want he's actually a good move it's a good move on his part because
[01:15:41] he says I'm responsible for everything even if they say no we don't take a deal and we're going to hang you
[01:15:46] he's still he's still trying to protect of many as as many of his people as he can I'll band down the chain
[01:15:51] to command the advisability of complying with ishi's bargain war crimes immunity in written form
[01:16:01] in exchange for scientific data was to occupy some of Washington's most senior minds throughout the
[01:16:07] summer of 1947 ishi continued masuda canako and nato whom you say you know can give you a lot of
[01:16:16] information I would like to be hired by the United States as a biological warfare expert in preparation
[01:16:22] for the war with Russia I can give you the advantage of my 20 years research and experience I have
[01:16:28] given a great deal of thought to tactical problems in the defense against biological warfare I have made
[01:16:33] studies on the best agents to be employed in various regions and in cold climates I can write
[01:16:38] volume of a while biological warfare including the little thought of strategic and tactical employment
[01:16:45] God this God this is scumbag
[01:16:54] so it continues and open back to the book and it opened admission about human experimentation
[01:16:58] allegations about the the use of biological warfare even hints about the connection between unit 731
[01:17:04] and a member of the Japanese imperial family were all contained in the files of legal sections
[01:17:09] case 330 by the middle of 1947 how did this come about and why was nothing be done being done about
[01:17:17] the files contents so this is getting shut down that's what's happening now here's the sort of the more
[01:17:23] official opinion back to the book on balance the subcommittee felt it was desirable to avoid a
[01:17:31] war crimes prosecution and here's what they said since it is believed that the USSR possesses
[01:17:36] only a small portion of this technical information and since any war crimes trial would completely
[01:17:42] reveal such data to all nations it is felt that such publicity must be avoided in interests of
[01:17:49] defense and the security of the United States it is believed it is believed also that war crimes
[01:17:55] prosecution of eshi and his associates would serve to stop the flow of much additional information
[01:18:02] of a technical and scientific nature it is felt that the use of this information as a basis for
[01:18:09] war crimes evidence would be a grave detriment to Japanese cooperation with the United States
[01:18:16] occupation forces in Japan so there you hear the decisions getting made and that's the way it went
[01:18:27] and in the end going back to the book no member of unit 731 was called before any British or American
[01:18:35] military tribunal to account for war crimes none of them well actually not by any British or
[01:18:45] Americans because the Russians they still went after and they and when they went after them
[01:18:51] and they got some of them they made America look bad they had a big trial and here's the
[01:18:57] the state council the state council's name was smear off and here we go back to the book smear
[01:19:04] off spelled out a message intended for the ears of an audience thousands of miles from the courtroom
[01:19:08] these men ishi and the rest now ishi wasn't a part of this trial but ishi and the rest enjoy the
[01:19:15] protection of those reactionary forces in the imperialist camp who are themselves dreaming of a time
[01:19:23] when they will be able to hurl upon mankind loads of tnt atomic bombs and lethal bacteria
[01:19:30] the accused received the sentences as follows and then they listed these guys that various
[01:19:39] soldiers and civilians that served in some of these biological warfare
[01:19:46] experimentation centers they got 25 years 20 years 18 years 15 years 12 years 10 years
[01:19:52] two years three years but again those sentences don't include ishi or the other main players at units
[01:20:04] 731 because they got kind of protected not even kind of they got protected by America
[01:20:12] and exchange for their information sort of in response to everything that was going on there on December
[01:20:19] 27th 1941 the following story appeared in the New York Times date land Tokyo no knowledge MacArthur says
[01:20:26] general darkless MacArthur's headquarters said today there were no known cases in which
[01:20:31] Japanese used American prisoners in jernmore for experiments the headquarters added that the
[01:20:37] Japanese had done some experiments with animals although there was no evidence they had ever used human beings
[01:20:43] as far as it is known here no American's held prisoner by the Japanese that mook didn't ever
[01:20:49] accuse their captors of having used them as guinea pigs in biological warfare tests
[01:20:57] so that's all not true that's all not true back to the book to this day Russia has allowed
[01:21:05] itself to bask in feelings of moral superiority over America and not without some justification
[01:21:11] in respect of the way it brought its unit 731 criminals to justice so just that's the way it
[01:21:22] flushed out now this you might think that's a little disturbing this is equally disturbing this
[01:21:31] just horrible back to the book after the war most of the scientists of unit 731 prospered
[01:21:41] much is explained by the clear complicity on the part of the United States authorities in the war
[01:21:47] crimes of unit 731 the detachments civilian researchers and other associated scientists were quite
[01:21:54] free to return to academia and it goes through this lit this multiple page list of of guys that
[01:22:04] went on to work at the research institute for natural resources chief and you know another guy was
[01:22:09] chief research section at a pharmaceutical company doctor ishi kawa once a pathologist at unit 731
[01:22:20] who had brought home within thousands of human pathological samples became a professor at at a
[01:22:26] university in 1944 a position he held throughout the 1960s and 70s he eventually became president of
[01:22:33] the university's medical school the local newspaper once planned to award him with a metal for his
[01:22:40] contribution to society but after students who knew of his wartime record objected the war was canceled
[01:22:47] so these guys carried on another guy professor of show a university from a ecological another
[01:22:57] professor of bacteriologically a Kyoto university the list goes on on and on doctor
[01:23:07] he sought to Yoshimura who directed unit 731's frostbite experiments literally freezing people
[01:23:16] the death became a faculty member at the Kyoto perfectural medical college in the 1950s and later it's
[01:23:24] president and like i said that list goes on and on and of course he still haven't heard about
[01:23:36] ishi yet the mastermind behind this whole thing here we go back to the book ishi inherited much
[01:23:42] of the family's property in cameo village because if you remember cameo villages where they bring
[01:23:47] all these prison guards from their home village so that they'd get the complete loyalty from
[01:23:51] them so he inherited much of the properties family the family property in cameo village is to
[01:23:56] elder brothers tecao and mitzuo were childless unlike shiro who fathered six children tecao unit 731
[01:24:05] special prison squad leader eventually died of liver cancer and Kobe the city went to his second
[01:24:10] wife had come mitzuo who wants to provide the the unit's animal house outlived his younger brother
[01:24:19] shiro but was unable to work after the war and lived on money gained by selling his country property
[01:24:25] mitzuo and tecao and their eldest brother torael who had been killed in the ruso
[01:24:34] japanese war during japan's major period are buried in the ishi family cemetery at cameo
[01:24:39] on august 17th 1958 13 years after the end of the war in the back room of a stone mason shop
[01:24:50] near tomah cemetery stokeo ishi made his first and apparently only post war appearance
[01:24:56] before assembled at junior members of his former unit he reminisced about the early days of
[01:25:05] unit 731 in a speech reportedly still rich in xenophobia and elitism he she described how his
[01:25:12] unit was to have been the salvation of japan a country then encircled by the west scientifically
[01:25:20] impoverished yet spiritually rich he apologized for their suffering since the end of the war
[01:25:26] but urged his audience to remain proud of the memory of unit 731 and here's a little part of his
[01:25:37] what he said it was in order that we could have precious human material that the unit 731
[01:25:46] was set for the saving of the nation national circumstances were not permitting
[01:25:53] unfortunately we did not achieve our aims so even after all that even after all that even looking
[01:26:07] back after 13 years after the end of the war he's looking back and and still has the same mindset
[01:26:14] and that meant how could he's hard to understand and I want to shed a little bit of light on that
[01:26:18] mentality and do that through some personal accounts of what happened at unit 731 and that's
[01:26:29] from this other book it's called unit 731 testimony and let's go to this book and I think these
[01:26:37] make it pretty clear where this mentality comes from so this account is from a captain
[01:26:48] in the Japanese imperial army named Kojima Kojima te kaio and here we go perhaps there are some
[01:26:55] people here and and by the way most of these accounts are from an exhibition that went around
[01:27:04] Japan kind of explaining what happened and people would come to this exhibition and they would capture
[01:27:09] if someone was involved in unit 731 or someone remembered or someone had a story about it they
[01:27:13] would capture their account and that's what this book has a lot of from this ex but this exhibition
[01:27:20] that they did I think it was in the mid 1990s that they did this exhibition so this particular
[01:27:25] person that was showed up at this exhibition he was a captain the Japanese army his name is Kojima te kaio
[01:27:34] and here's what he said perhaps there are some people here at this unit 731 exhibition
[01:27:40] who think that this was all there was to jippit japanese aggression at the time unit 731 was
[01:27:49] merely one segment of the dark shadow of Japan's aggression and I would like to tell of my
[01:27:55] experience in this and I think this is why I pulled this one specifically because this talks about
[01:28:02] where this came from where this mentality came from that issue had to the end we were born and
[01:28:10] raised in a society of emperorsum a person's absolute responsibility above the army and government
[01:28:17] was to the emperor the emperor was a living deity the emperor's command was supreme and controlled
[01:28:24] the entire country we were told how we must serve the emperor how we should behave toward our
[01:28:31] parents how should we we should behave toward our teachers and how should we should behave toward our
[01:28:37] siblings we were taught that Japan is a sacred country that the people of Japan are a superior race
[01:28:44] that the people of china korea south east Asia and Russia were all inferior races and the superior
[01:28:53] race must govern them and by doing so we would bring them happiness this was the cause to which
[01:29:00] Japan must devote itself he goes on again I'm not reading the entire thing but you have to get the
[01:29:08] book to get these entire accounts soon after we went into service we were given training to get our
[01:29:14] courage up we were ordered to watch beheadings chinese were made to sit by a hole in the ground
[01:29:22] and the season soldiers would cut their heads off blood spurred up from the neck into the air
[01:29:30] and the bodies would roll into the holes then we had bayonet practice victims had their hands tied
[01:29:38] behind them around a tree and were used as bayonet targets we had to watch this as part of our training
[01:29:46] this was a shock to me and for two or three days food would not pass through my throat
[01:29:54] but two years later I became an officer in charge of a platoon and with about 25 men under me
[01:30:02] later I became a company commander with a hundred and fifty one men and that meant
[01:30:07] that if I didn't build a strong platoon and a strong company I would fall behind and so I too
[01:30:13] tested the courage of the soldiers under me by using chinese prisoners this was normal training
[01:30:22] in the Japanese army when we were not involved in major operations we would go out into our
[01:30:33] own immediate area on continuous three-day operations to see if there were any enemy around on such
[01:30:40] occasions we stole tortured and slaughtered people the chinese had a saying about us that
[01:30:48] Japan had a three-way complete policy burned completely killed completely and pillaged completely
[01:30:57] yet when we were doing those things we had no sense of guilt or of doing anything wrong
[01:31:03] it was for the emperor for the country so that's how the rest and that's how you can
[01:31:22] put someone like yeeshie that goes through all that and still remains loyal even after defeat
[01:31:27] still remains loyal to the deposed emperor and here's an army doctor named uosah Ken this is not
[01:31:41] easy for me to speak about but it is something I must confess what I did was wrong
[01:31:51] it is also true that it was forced on me by the government but that does not reduce the size of
[01:31:56] my crime it is something that happened a long time ago but those who are not taught about the war are
[01:32:05] ill-educated the Japanese army went to plunder and steel materials and to kill
[01:32:15] Japan wanted iron, coal and provisions and the army drove into the mountains to prosecute the war
[01:32:21] at the time the Japanese used derogatory terms for the chinese like chinamen and
[01:32:31] chink and looked at them with contempt when I was a child we were told to despise the chinese
[01:32:39] despise the Koreans it's all right to conquer them we have become elite and should join with the
[01:32:46] Americans in British and conquer Asia I hated war and killing but around middle school and into
[01:32:52] college I began to think that such ideas were unavoidable people were driven into a life
[01:33:01] which human qualities in which human qualities were lost the soldiers outlet for frustrations
[01:33:08] was the brothel of the comfort women any means was resorted to in order to raise one's rank
[01:33:15] and keep up the authority of the country and in the army hospital we practiced vivis section
[01:33:26] living persons are good for the scalpel practice so people were brought in
[01:33:33] one day soon after I started at the assignment the hospital had told us today we will have surgery
[01:33:38] practice I was startled it was an order there was no getting out of it normally we dissected people
[01:33:47] who had died of such diseases as typhoid fever, dysentery and tuberculosis now we were being taken
[01:33:54] to the section room for a different type of exercise soldiers came along as observers
[01:34:02] everything started with a signal from the hospital head one chinese had big thighs and walk slowly
[01:34:08] and calmly he laid down and had no sign of fear no stress on his face he was composed
[01:34:16] someone else used him for surgery practice I went over and pushed the other one onto the operating
[01:34:21] table I had no feeling of apology or of doing anything bad the farmer was resigned to his fate
[01:34:31] and he lowered his head and walked forward I didn't want to get my clothes dirty from him I wanted
[01:34:39] to look sharp he went down as far as the operating table but didn't want to lie down
[01:34:47] a nurse using broken chinese told him we're using ether it won't hurt so lie down
[01:34:54] she gave me a rise smile when she said that she had been working there for a long time
[01:35:03] and when I happened to meet her again much later and asked her about it she didn't remember
[01:35:09] she was handling so many vivis sections it was routine people who repeat evil acts do not
[01:35:18] remember them there is no sense of wrongdoing war means this also war is not just shooting
[01:35:27] in order for Japan to win all the chinese were made prisoners women's bellies were cut open
[01:35:33] homes were burned if you couldn't do this then you weren't a loyal soldier of the emperor
[01:35:39] even if one despises an act one must bear it from there a person becomes accustomed to it
[01:35:52] we all received practiced it was normal to smile at this the crimes committed during our aggressive
[01:35:58] wars are forgotten gone from memory at the time they were considered right so the surgery began
[01:36:11] the man was given ether and dissected his appendix was so small that it was like looking for a
[01:36:18] burling worm I had to cut and search repeatedly the blood flow was stopped nerves were cut
[01:36:26] bones were cut with a saw and a tracheotomy was performed blood and air escape from his body
[01:36:33] the blood came foaming up practice time was two hours the man died and his body was thrown into a
[01:36:43] hole and buried that was my first crime after that it was easy eventually I dissected 14 chinese
[01:37:03] I also saw vivis sections once I saw about 40 doctors gathered there was a man bound and
[01:37:10] squatting the guard asked the doctors are you ready and the prisoner was laid out without anesthetic
[01:37:17] two cuts were made down as belly the victim made a few gas the dissection was a botch and he
[01:37:24] died soon I saw four people dissected that way it is said that there are that there were 20
[01:37:35] million victims of the war in China but only 10 to 20% of these were killed in gunfire exchange
[01:37:45] most non-resisting old people women and children were captured and slaughtered prisoners of war
[01:37:54] could not be taken to the front or allowed to escape so they were killed in the manner of the rape of
[01:37:59] NAN King those who were a part of it do not come forward to tell the people how it was
[01:38:09] why because the Japanese have forgotten all about it everybody's forgotten they did things
[01:38:22] and got medals and they don't think they did anything worse than kicking a dog they weren't bothered
[01:38:33] because they never considered a dreadful thing to take a scalpel and cut open a living person
[01:38:39] and this will be the last piece of testimony that I read and this was a soldier that was
[01:39:00] attached to unit 731 named O'Hara Takiyoshi and he said I joined the cavalry
[01:39:13] from my home in 1939 in April of that year I was stationed in northeast China then in March
[01:39:20] 1942 I was transferred to unit 731 I did not know anything about that unit my first duty was
[01:39:31] taken care of domesticated animals such as sheep, goats, horses and cows I assisted in researching
[01:39:42] the diseases that affect these animals I saw tests in which Maruta were tied to crosses in a large
[01:39:51] circle as planes flew over and dropped bacteriological bombs in the area surrounded by the crosses
[01:40:02] their legs were chained and their bodies tied tightly we observed the tests from a distance of about
[01:40:09] 200 meters I had the job of cleaning up and disinfecting after the experiments and gathering to
[01:40:19] bring lying around I want people who come to this exhibition to tell their children and grandchildren that there is nothing more stupid and fearful
[01:40:36] then more nothing more stupid and fearful then more and I think that's a good quote to end this
[01:41:03] except for it is wrong it is wrong because as stupid and as fearful and as reprehensible as war is
[01:41:18] there is something worse than war and that is allowing this kind of evil to exist
[01:41:37] as bad as war is and war is awful war is hell and I have said that over and over again as
[01:41:46] have many others but there are worse things than war things like unit 731 things like the Nazi
[01:41:56] concentration camps things like the rape of Nand King there are things that are worse than war
[01:42:05] and there are times when war is not only justified but it is a moral obligation
[01:42:12] and I do not say that lightly but when evil and when darkness and when malevolent and demonic spirits rise to power
[01:42:32] they must be stopped in the responsibility for that lies within all of us every day to do our best
[01:42:46] to do our best to move the world away from the darkness and the demons that linger inside men's minds
[01:43:01] and move the world toward the light and toward what is good and I think that is all I have
[01:43:30] got for tonight so echo Charles I think while I decompress a little bit if you could
[01:43:45] talk about ways for the crew here to move towards the light I'm gonna try
[01:43:51] I know I know and if you think about originally when we started getting into these kind of podcast
[01:44:01] that touched upon some heavy some very disturbing subject matter that was that was where the whole
[01:44:11] sort of ex that's called extended closing to the show began yeah kind of yeah could just
[01:44:23] and and I remember like I remember like the first time I said you like hey man you just talk for a little while
[01:44:30] I need a break over here yeah that's how we ended up with this this thing yeah but then the
[01:44:36] interesting thing people would say hey thanks for doing that yeah because you're not the only one that needs
[01:44:40] decompress after you hear this freaking crap yeah after you hear about this just heinous evil yeah
[01:44:47] that really happened yeah we need a little break we need a little echo Charles here
[01:44:54] to you know yeah that's that's rough where you you know you go from
[01:44:59] vivis section you know and then what if you were like hey all right that's all I got for
[01:45:07] tonight yeah yeah yeah then you kind of all right you turn off you go into I don't know work
[01:45:14] whatever whenever you let's do it go to bed no that's that came out with with 121 122 and 123
[01:45:21] with Louis Polymer and with Chester Polylor and then Jake Shick I wasn't gonna do
[01:45:28] I I I said to myself I can't do 121 and 122 and just leave 122 out there in the world by itself
[01:45:36] I need to Jake Shick my brother to come on and like show that you can get through that you know
[01:45:41] and so this is kind of the same thing you know I just can't like walk off yeah yeah my
[01:45:48] drop and then oh yeah hey you guys deal with it now no we're gonna deal with it together that's
[01:45:53] yeah we're gonna have echo Charles help us deal with it so come back a little bit a little bit try
[01:45:58] kind of camp forget I mean it's been you're not gonna forget that you know and you just like
[01:46:02] you can't forget machetes and you can't forget the reaper banking so you can remember but
[01:46:08] camp forget the mili masquer yeah the harsh I mean it's it's it's crazy yeah but yeah man oh
[01:46:16] far beyond from our intention to leave you with bad feelings that last we want I've said this before
[01:46:29] right we want you to remember but not dwell yes right I think that's important I speak you know
[01:46:37] you're doing with loss I mean I talk about that a lot when you're dealing with loss yeah you always
[01:46:41] want to remember the people you've lost but you can't dwell on it and you always want to remember
[01:46:48] the reaper banking you always want to remember machetes he's and you always want to remember unit
[01:46:53] 731 you always want to remember man search for meaning you always want to remember me I
[01:46:57] mask you want to remember those things because they're real and they happen and they can happen again
[01:47:02] if we let them yeah we can't dwell on them because there's there's because you know what we won
[01:47:09] good one and good will win yeah it's what I'm thinking yeah fully you know okay there's this
[01:47:17] movie called something about a centipede human centipede maybe there's a lot of
[01:47:25] literally no possible way I've seen this movie yeah yeah I've never seen it I've seen the
[01:47:32] the the you know we're usually like completely like psychosec dysturvy yeah yeah we're
[01:47:36] gonna be a scientist guy yeah yeah you know I can't help but kind of think you know it's when you
[01:47:42] said this isn't a movie this is this really happened and that's really the hard part when you
[01:47:46] really start to think about it like just like how we're sitting here right now what's really hard
[01:47:52] is you know you you picture the mother in a gas chamber with her baby and you you can't just
[01:48:00] picture a mother you can't just picture a child you have to like picture a mother and a child
[01:48:07] that you know you need to put that in you need to picture someone that you can't you can't make
[01:48:12] that connection be saying a mother and a child that doesn't that doesn't bring it together for you
[01:48:18] you actually have to picture someone you know and their kid being for that's what you need to
[01:48:25] picture being for because that's what those people are they were people they were people with
[01:48:29] alive and they had hopes and dreams and all those things and they got put into a gas chamber to
[01:48:33] see how long they could last without a gas mask that's what you have to picture yeah it makes the
[01:48:43] point for sure what oh here's a moral question okay you know how like some of these doctors
[01:48:51] and a scientist they went on to be prosperous you know after the deal and they obviously
[01:48:59] I mean apparently some of them did some really good work where they're getting like awards and whatnot
[01:49:04] and you know what speaking of this I was thinking about this because another really dark book
[01:49:09] that we covered on here was ordinary men which ordinary men talked about the the police the
[01:49:14] the Nazi police that went from being normal guys that were middle aged hadn't been indoctrinated
[01:49:19] in the Nazi way of life as children they got kind of like swept along with the rest of the
[01:49:26] Germans and they ended up committing these heinous acts and murdering thousands and thousands of
[01:49:33] of Jews but what's interesting about that so in that story it's normal guys going evil in this
[01:49:40] story these evil guys that did evil things they come out the other side and kind of like go normal
[01:49:46] right and they it's just so did they didn't they get kind of they got forced into it though right
[01:49:52] remember they were like hey hey you gotta do this or you die they did get well not really
[01:49:57] if you remember in ordinary men they're commander action in the beginning it's like hey if you
[01:50:02] want to if you don't want to do this go home right no I mean the the Japanese there's definitely
[01:50:06] one there's definitely some guys getting forced into it yeah so you here so here's the
[01:50:10] more question is like okay of course you know these guys committed crimes regardless of you know
[01:50:14] the surrounding circumstances they committed these crimes is factual and then they kind of get away
[01:50:21] and then they get into normal society and they and they don't get punished right proceed like
[01:50:27] no justice right no justice but so here's the more questions so does is it did they make up
[01:50:36] even a little bit further crime by doing good in the future even though they didn't get punished
[01:50:43] like did they make up for it or is it more of a crime because they got to do good stuff they got to
[01:50:51] get awards and they got to be prosecuted in the prosperous and they shouldn't the end either what
[01:50:56] if you look at it from the perspective of like hey let's look at them hold it so there's
[01:51:02] there's there's two ways I'm gonna stage this for you look at it holistically from like okay
[01:51:06] here's this person let's look at it from my from joccos perspective here's this person they did
[01:51:11] these horrible things but now they've kind of got back on track and they've put their life
[01:51:15] together and and that's that's a positive thing and they've even if you can't make up for that
[01:51:20] whole crime at least you're chipping away at some of the horrible things you did in replacing
[01:51:25] something good and and you can see where people come to the conclusion that like well okay I can
[01:51:30] kind of see how that makes sense that's one way of looking at it or others too by the way not just
[01:51:35] and I mean it's easy to be like hey he got to do all this but if they're doing good work scientifically
[01:51:41] and for you know medical schools and stuff like this is obviously they're teaching people
[01:51:46] they're probably you know making breakthroughs and you know discoveries in the field and stuff
[01:51:51] that's gonna help people in general you know now here's the other way I'm gonna frame it for you
[01:51:55] is from the eyes of that mother who's in that gas chamber who's watching that switch get turned
[01:52:03] and she knows it's gonna kill her and her child and there's no there's no redemption zero
[01:52:14] check good job trying to lighten up the mood over here you're all you well hey man you know
[01:52:20] all right well hey let's talk some support some support we can support we're dwelling we're
[01:52:26] dwelling we're breaking our we're breaking our our own code here we're dwelling good code yes all right
[01:52:33] well let's talk about origin I feel like we should talk about origin and the first thing about
[01:52:38] origin that I will talk about is the geese the flagship product geese all made in America by the way
[01:52:46] rashcards as well this is for jiu-jitsu by the way specifically but not limited too so while the geese are
[01:52:52] kind limited to unless you want to make a dragon we suit like you're the one who recommend
[01:52:58] you could do you know you could do you know in a yeah I guess technically you could do
[01:53:03] karate too if you want technically I mean but they're made for jiu-jitsu the rashcards made for
[01:53:08] jiu-jitsu but you can use it for like cycling and body boarding and whatnot anything that you want
[01:53:14] to protect yourself from rashes not at but not jure rashes like rashes actually it does have
[01:53:23] anti-microbial stuff in it too so it is kind of protect from it anyway origin main dot com that's
[01:53:30] where you can get this stuff all made in America and also joggers coming from the condos who have
[01:53:39] come for himself that's me people are so calm at about that yes they are you're now becoming known
[01:53:45] yeah maybe you could parlay that until like a whole thing yeah like a whole thing yeah yeah just have
[01:53:50] your own thing no no listing things were comfort levels yeah all established a standard of comfort
[01:53:57] it'll be called the concept of comfort scale seems like you know how like in temperature there's
[01:54:02] like Kelvin yeah Celsius Fahrenheit yeah I'll be that for comfort the echo scale yeah echo scale of comfort
[01:54:09] what would the highest level of comfort be would it just be one to ten you know it'd be uh oh you
[01:54:13] oh joy what would be the highest what's that ranking oh joy origin joggers oh
[01:54:21] oh dad it's like I'm over here I'm like I'm getting a peat for some reason he's the kind
[01:54:27] guy I like to just call you know how you like you'll text someone you know really I want to
[01:54:32] you know really but nowadays we like to text people you know I'm not gonna bother them I'm not gonna you know but
[01:54:38] I'm for some reason I like to call peat so call them and I'll be like hey when the shorts come
[01:54:45] yeah not first so we can you know because I want to wear them you know that kind of stuff
[01:54:50] anyway so I'm about to call them and be like hey we need more colors of joggers or whatever but
[01:54:54] here's the thing do we I need more colors so I can't just be running peat around his factory
[01:54:59] making new colors just for me personally or maybe I can't I don't but it would help but yeah there
[01:55:06] they're real good joggers uh T-shirts and hoodies and whatnot good stuff may origin may
[01:55:11] murder me in America may in America yeah which is good on a whole bunch of different levels
[01:55:16] also we got a bunch of supplements we got joint warfare we got krill oil we got discipline which is
[01:55:25] good to drink before you get after it mentally or physically and also we got milk yeah
[01:55:36] but back to joint warfare okay so let me get the pit I know you you're wondering how my arm is doing
[01:55:42] you're not I know man oh let you know so I went to Oregon the Oregon coast last week one week
[01:55:49] forgot the joint warfare I just had surgery on my bicep about six yeah six weeks ago and you know
[01:55:57] woo you you know I would have fed extra some broth I know but yeah and thank you but you know
[01:56:02] I didn't see how long ago to take before you noticed it I'm guessing the moral of the story
[01:56:06] is this didn't work out yeah so and here's the thing my surgeon is good he was good he did a good
[01:56:11] job on my arm reattached my bicep tendon to my bone drill the hole in the bone
[01:56:16] bones to get through so it up good good good shot so I take joint warfare the thing feels good like
[01:56:24] I'm way ahead of schedule you know surprisingly because I had it done in my other 99 years ago
[01:56:28] about so it's all good I'm moving around doing like pushups doing stuff that no way I could
[01:56:34] I could have done with my other arm last time so I got it Oregon coast forget the joint warfare
[01:56:38] I attributed to the joint warfare how far ahead I am so I forget the joint warfare I'm in the
[01:56:43] Oregon coast I would say about two days and here's the thing in start like hurting or going
[01:56:48] backwards and I think that but it was just this weird stiffness that sort of just like I couldn't
[01:56:54] straighten it out right away when I wake up you know I can't like you know I kind of got to work
[01:56:58] it out and it slowly just started to just stiffen up a little more and here's the thing I was
[01:57:02] way less active on it too where because when I do like pushups and stuff where I'm using my elbow
[01:57:08] a lot it would be kind of stiff that night you know than the next thing you do stuff and then it's
[01:57:13] stronger you know it's just one of the same like muscles but it's in my try so I was doing that
[01:57:17] not much activity and it was just general stiffness yeah bro I don't want to say it felt inflamed
[01:57:26] but it felt like you know you know like you spraying your thumb or something like that and it's like
[01:57:32] swollen and it's like just jammed up you can use it but anyway it kind of felt like that
[01:57:38] functional but not optimal functional but not optimal and then I come back two days back
[01:57:45] from the joint warfare boom back in the game that's full on back in the game that's pretty cool
[01:57:49] and it's for her for hell of a thing man it's supposed to mean could straighten
[01:57:54] curcumin good for you bring to by the way yeah just like discipline yeah also milk as you were
[01:58:00] sane what up with milk well there's first one milk's awesome second of all what is milk
[01:58:06] it's milk everyone knows that now I think that's pretty much gonna be the new thing
[01:58:11] and we have peanut butter chocolate will be coming out I want to say it a week
[01:58:17] I want to say it within a week you're all like yeah we have peanut butter and chuck we have
[01:58:22] peanut butter and chocolate coming in a butter week yeah maybe no no it's not even a
[01:58:28] maybe it's straight up one week counting down the day okay that's good so milk protein how
[01:58:32] much you're having a protein amount you know 22 so and I heard this I recently read
[01:58:39] actually I didn't read it I saw it on a video YouTube video I know that sounds like
[01:58:43] or YouTube video but I think this one had credibility so so you need that need but a good
[01:58:52] amount of protein is one gram they thought it was like one point five we were trying to build
[01:58:57] muscle on this stuff but it's changed it's about yeah it's way the according to this youtube
[01:59:01] video right in the video it's like 0.7 or something like this 0.7 I don't know
[01:59:07] I need more in that yeah well there you go milk get it and it tastes good real good
[01:59:13] by the way it's dessert yeah any was a small classified as a dessert that's the question
[01:59:18] yeah it's currently it's currently that's how I classify too it would have to be literally
[01:59:24] eat my dinner and then I'm all excited you have more
[01:59:26] you know it's a dessert it is a dessert and what I would on a trip and I haven't figured
[01:59:32] out how to travel with milk yet which is a real bummer but you know it's it's scoop you can't
[01:59:36] bring six scoops and I'm real light traveler yeah and so now when I go somewhere
[01:59:42] and I get whatever I get a good meal I'll get a legit meal but I want to dessert yeah I want
[01:59:48] milk does that you do you put it in a zip lock bag yeah puff not in your carry on by the way
[01:59:56] then you got to bring a shaker right there's this multiple problems that I have I have
[02:00:01] got to figure it out figure out a sister figure it out one thing I can say is two is when I
[02:00:05] when I always if I drink protein shakes in the past I would have to use a big shaker
[02:00:13] um and put a lot put price 16 ounces of milk oh my goodness forever one thing that's good
[02:00:20] about milk and because that's the only way to feel satisfied with milk you can use one of the
[02:00:23] small little shakers so this is the possibility I'm creating ideas right now I can bring one of
[02:00:28] the small shakers bring a little bit of milk in it and then just hit it up it would be good yeah
[02:00:32] because you don't need a big giant shaker because you don't need to drink that much milk to feel like
[02:00:36] like like you got enough dessert like you got enough dessert yeah
[02:00:41] anyway back to the deal uh emerging camp yeah winter jackets coming August 26th
[02:00:48] August 26th through September 2nd this is weird but we might it looks like we might actually
[02:00:55] sell out like have a certain point how do you sell out of the camp they didn't think we'd be
[02:00:59] but we so if you want to come get registered because it we're probably gonna end up
[02:01:05] because you can only we we have we we're we are about more mats double the mats that we had the
[02:01:09] muster yeah it's a lot of mats but still I mean they're still a limit so if you want to come to that
[02:01:18] come I'll be there echo will be there Dave Burke will be there latefabble will be there jp's on the fence
[02:01:25] Dean Lister Dean Lister will be there sure yeah and that's good and where you know when you
[02:01:33] learn stuff at the I mean there's they're you know there's they're you're gonna learn
[02:01:37] specific things from specific people and all that stuff but don't look at it like this thing
[02:01:44] where you're gonna go and you're just gonna learn what they have to teach you you know they're gonna
[02:01:48] teach you um flighters like the 15 or 20 black belt sir yes so on top of that if you made it
[02:01:55] your goal if you went and you went and you said went to each one of those 15 black belts and said
[02:02:00] show me your your best move yeah if you did that and you walked away that would be that would be solid
[02:02:08] yeah but you you couldn't this isn't this isn't a hey show me your move and you spend three minutes
[02:02:13] now I'm talking if you if you spent like an hour maybe even an hour and a half going over what's
[02:02:19] your best move like I bet I could teach certain moves for an hour and a half and just show
[02:02:28] every little detail if you came to the immersion camp and that's what you did you be rocking out
[02:02:33] of their solid it'd be it'd be rough if everyone did that because you know it'd be hard
[02:02:38] yeah I don't think you could logistically do it but I will say this that on top of what all the
[02:02:45] instructors there and not to mention just other experienced people what they have to offer and teach you
[02:02:51] you can come and be like hey my rear naked choke needs work yeah this is how I do it a juggle
[02:03:00] come here this is how I do it this is all day by the way you the other subject this is how I do it
[02:03:05] and show well that's that's one thing that you could do because you can't just literally train
[02:03:11] the entire time but you can get shown moves and you can work moves oh yeah you can't just
[02:03:16] train because you'll die well yes you'll die for sure but if but the point is there though where
[02:03:24] you can come and you can come to immersion camp right and it's good again to learn from from
[02:03:28] everything that everyone has to teach but you can go in with specific like questions with your
[02:03:34] game where you still like oh for sure how am I going to get better of course my Jesus is going to get
[02:03:38] better in general that's good of course but if it's like wait will my mouth if you get better
[02:03:44] your mouth escapes get better and that's what you focus on and you can ask actually while I'll give
[02:03:48] you this advice if you have trouble being mounted and escaping the mouth a good person to ask about
[02:03:55] that is actually echo Charles you have a very good uh mouth escape oh yes very teachable to that's
[02:04:00] one of your best moves is the mouth escape I will say that right now a foritatively right off got a good
[02:04:06] non escape thanks for also shifting gears so yeah anyway but yeah immersion camp August 26 to September
[02:04:14] second origin main dot com for all that crap that we just talked about yeah origin main dot com
[02:04:18] main like the state and m-a-i-n-e-a-or-j-a-m-n-o-com also if you want to get these cool shirts it's say discipline
[02:04:30] equals freedom jaccoz store it's called jacco store so go to jacco store dot com um they anyway that's
[02:04:37] where you can get the shirts to say disciplinary freedom get after it anyway if you want to represent
[02:04:41] with jacco gear it's more the philosophy it's not jacco gear doesn't really have your face on
[02:04:49] anything all the way yes it does have your face on it and it says good one of them maybe one two I don't
[02:04:56] know anyway go there jacco store dot com if you like something get something you want to represent in your
[02:05:01] town also rash guards on there who do you's on there t-shirt rash guards trucker's hats you like the flex fit
[02:05:11] like say like no where hats which is where it was your bald yeah my head gotta get a tan
[02:05:17] but actually I didn't I went and phases not think go to you said you're gonna get me
[02:05:22] much more of these trucker's hats and you did not with which one does this cool freedom yeah or
[02:05:28] deathguard deathgree uh they're on the way the meaning braided right now okay actually I
[02:05:33] have I added like a bonus color of the I don't support bonus colors bonus you know but it's like a
[02:05:40] khaki uh like a like a brown like a tan oh pretty dope echo tross going tactical all right
[02:05:48] camey way jaccozard dot com lot of good stuff do you just stuff on there women stuff on there
[02:05:52] hats and meanies what not some posters on there too by the way you didn't even know about that
[02:05:57] you talk about it today yeah like it cuz a lot of people and I mean for real a lot of people like a lot
[02:06:02] a lot of people that like seven what are the posters of uh just when equals freedom and the good
[02:06:08] poster those are the ones that people would hit me up often very often be like hey my gym I want to
[02:06:13] post her I want to post her from my I want to post her from my office you know 24 but 36 posters
[02:06:18] is two posters on there I'll make other other ones but yeah got some post shot back and boom
[02:06:22] represent in your gym in your office your home I got one of my home first thing when you walk in
[02:06:28] it's interesting a poster of our podcast the good poster that's cool yeah so your face is kind of
[02:06:34] sorted there you know representing in my house thanks jaccoz by the way also good way to support
[02:06:39] the podcast is to subscribe to the podcast what I tunes in google play stitcher wherever you listen
[02:06:44] to to podcasts interesting all this so many of them out there now there's a lot of podcasts
[02:06:50] no platform sorry yeah a lot of podcasts and there's a lot of podcasts platforms yes it's the new media
[02:06:57] it's the new media the new media voice yeah it is voice it is voice also in addition to this podcast
[02:07:06] which is called the jacco podcast there's also the warrior kid podcast which is 4 kids but
[02:07:15] I promise you can get a lot out of it as an adult too cool thing I've been doing on that I've done it twice
[02:07:20] I'm gonna do it more but so it's questions for uncle jaccoz the basic premises premise of it
[02:07:27] but now I have stories from uncle jaccoz and the stories from uncle jaccoz actually from uncle jaccoz
[02:07:32] childhood and they kind of teach a lesson to people yeah so that's number podcast number 14
[02:07:41] and 15 or the first two that I've started doing stories from uncle jaccoz so I think people will like those
[02:07:49] they're a little bit of yeah they're good some so this kind of like character development
[02:07:54] sprinkled in there with less the to me the less it wasn't I'm maybe this is intentional but the
[02:08:01] lesson is the primary thing of course and it's deep sim very consistent with the whole uncle jaccoz
[02:08:08] so the idea is I'm explaining how uncle jaccoz got his values from experiences that he went
[02:08:19] through as a child and their stories are five minutes eight minutes something like that they're
[02:08:26] they're pretty short stories but they're cool and they're enjoyable so warrior kid podcast you can
[02:08:32] check that one out it's it's good and if kids if your kids have questions from uncle jaccoz
[02:08:39] just hit hit me up on Twitter yeah sit send them to Twitter and I'll capture them yeah good one
[02:08:47] also youtube subscribe to the youtube channel we do have a youtube channel if you're interested in the
[02:08:51] video version of this podcast or if you want to see echoes editing skills sure some people say you
[02:08:57] went over the top sure oh go up on top something so you there's a video called warpath it's it's
[02:09:03] probably the most controversial video from my perspective because it was originated with Christmas music
[02:09:08] which I don't like Christmas music and echo made with Christmas music and he put a lot of time
[02:09:13] and effort into it on Christmas so if we want to talk leadership here like from my perspective I
[02:09:18] knew you'd been working really hard on this thing and then you showed it to me and then the Christmas
[02:09:22] music kicked in which I didn't like didn't match but you know I just had to be like hey man it's great
[02:09:28] I really appreciate it oh it's a great video so I lied to you is that a lie you didn't say great no you
[02:09:35] did not lie okay said and I quote interesting choice of music for this that's it now I also will say
[02:09:44] that I don't 100% trust myself like I think to myself well echo really liked Christmas music so
[02:09:51] he put it in there so that's fine if that maybe some other people will like it too and that's
[02:09:55] I'm not here to like dictate what people like and don't like I'm just here to tell you what I like and don't
[02:10:00] like yes but then you but then you read it the video with with more appropriate music sure
[02:10:07] which is good but but then some people said you got crazy you went too far with the you went to
[02:10:14] for you too much stuff exploded you got too much stuff going on there's the same amount of
[02:10:18] exclusion I never would have said I never really paid too much attention about people said because I
[02:10:23] couldn't even get past the music once I got past the music and I checked that YouTube comments
[02:10:28] which I know right yeah you know I went there and people some people the majority of people
[02:10:36] said amazing right the majority some people just threw it out there hey take it easy bro yeah you can't
[02:10:43] make that you can't you cross the line right yes you went over like I think you were around the line
[02:10:51] I think you might have you know step the toll over it but but we have to find out where the
[02:10:59] line is right yes and I think you did a good job of pressing up a good line without just kidding
[02:11:03] well let me let me tell you the philosophy and tell me if this is a good way to approach it
[02:11:08] so a lot of those videos just okay so consider the first one we did good right it's a good first one
[02:11:15] you did okay good all about the game I think I might have told the story like there's a story behind
[02:11:22] but we're recording podcast it's like number three or five one of the first initial ones and I was like
[02:11:28] oh my camera was sitting over there behind kind of behind over in the corner and if you notice on
[02:11:34] good when it shows you you can see like it's behind like a monitor and see you can see this stuff I
[02:11:40] just went and pressed I kind of moved the camera a little bit and I just pressed record before you
[02:11:44] said that that part and I was like oh I'm gonna record this just in case I'll make a video a lot of it
[02:11:49] or something or whatever and if you look at I watch it the other day we're like Joe Rogan as we're talking
[02:11:56] about it so I was like oh let me watch it you know and I remember thinking and you're like reading
[02:12:01] and when you're looking up like you're looking at me and I remember you uh design this stuff
[02:12:07] to me and I'm like five this is crazy I'm glad I'm recording it but that wasn't made it wasn't like
[02:12:14] okay we're gonna do this we're gonna record this and we're gonna do that you know it's just like
[02:12:17] I'm gonna try to make a fun video out of it and then just put some random like graphics on there
[02:12:23] that was just having fun doing so these videos you do it they're kind of done out of just fun you know
[02:12:28] and everyone's gonna say oh hey man you have too much fun you grab some sound effects you make the
[02:12:34] walls combo you do kind of stuff you know you have some fun with it I mean there's no I guess
[02:12:39] there is kind of they're thematic I guess right there's some theme to it like warpath like yeah
[02:12:45] it's kind of for me it's like it's it's pretty awesome to watch yeah it's just and I could see where
[02:12:50] you're like you I can see where you start going down the path of like just more as better
[02:12:55] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's really what happens and I'll catch myself doing
[02:13:01] and it'll take along as I don't know like brother it's not even necessary and in fact and some
[02:13:06] people they will bring up this point which is a good point where I put stuff commonly right for
[02:13:11] okay warpath or take warpath for example I put the walls crumbling in Jacoen Dean rolling
[02:13:16] and when they when they clash like the walls come chattering down it's all these special effects
[02:13:21] which is like cool when you look at but all the special effects the sound effects and like all
[02:13:26] this stuff is like is it kind of getting in the way of the message because the message is like you're
[02:13:31] saying something specific you know so it's kind of getting in the way you know so I got to watch
[02:13:35] up for that yeah and I think that's a good point when people say that I'm like saying that's true
[02:13:39] and because you know when you're in the middle of the whole stuff yeah I guess but yeah I've got
[02:13:46] to watch out there's also a warrior kid youtube channel okay so the reason that we separated
[02:13:52] the warrior kid and the warrior kid and the Jaco podcast channel channel blah blah blah is because
[02:14:00] we know that there's things on this podcast and on the therefore on the youtube channel Jaco podcast
[02:14:05] there's stuff that's inappropriate for children to listen to or watch and so this is a way to
[02:14:11] separate them so there's also a warrior kid youtube channel that your kid can sit there and watch and
[02:14:16] and hopefully I'm not guaranteed because I don't know how the algorithms work that pop up the next
[02:14:22] video selections but hopefully your kid can watch the warrior kid videos without getting hooked into
[02:14:29] the unit 731 test mode about the intersection so watch out for that yeah true story and
[02:14:36] that ones in color too by the way yeah also good way to separate yourself is to get some new gear
[02:14:46] if you work out to boring give me new gear from on it by the way on it dot com slash jockel
[02:14:52] good place to go good information too about starting your kettlebell workout browser and I just thought
[02:14:58] this is yesterday was in the pool with my daughter and my wife was saying you know you know
[02:15:05] like okay so you might seem like bj pen do this where he'll go in the bottom of the ocean
[02:15:10] and he's asking that right now yeah yeah that's so so I'm like hey you could grab one of those
[02:15:15] kettlebell for sure and and my daughter she's five so she's like yeah I'll grab the little it's like
[02:15:21] it's like a pixie no or I don't know what it is but it's like one of those legend bells yeah
[02:15:27] it's a small one that I got for so she grabs it and she goes in the pool she's like I'm
[02:15:32] gonna say yeah I walked to the other side and it's like deep it's she goes kind into the deep
[02:15:36] section so she goes and she's carrying it she's doing the whole bj pen with the little kettlebell
[02:15:41] she's five by the way under the water and we're watching it we're like oh that's cute but she
[02:15:46] starts to sort of run out of air and she don't want to drop the kettlebell because it's like going to slam
[02:15:50] in the bottom of the pool and I don't know maybe she just she's five she didn't think of that you know
[02:15:54] kind of thing so I see her trying to like swim with it like trying to get to the top and it's kind
[02:15:58] of deep and it's like always started to get worried and then she started a little bit more urgency
[02:16:02] so I had to jump in grab her echo with the save save but she did right when I got towards
[02:16:07] she put it up on the little there's a little ledge on the other side of the pool there she managed
[02:16:11] to do it just but just barely so I went in there with my middle daughter was probably
[02:16:19] eight eight years old and we had a party at the beach for our birthday or what it
[02:16:27] and so I was dealing with like as long as I could I was dealing with the games and the
[02:16:30] whatever and finally I'm like you know what that's it we're going we're gonna get some so we formed
[02:16:35] the party up into two teams and we're gonna compete against each other in obstacle courses and
[02:16:39] sprints and all this other stuff and this particular location has a river gentle flowing
[02:16:47] title river that comes out and anyways one of the contests I had was okay you just we got a swim
[02:16:54] across and there's big rocks and stuff and I go you got a swim across the river and come back
[02:16:58] and whoever brings back the biggest rock is the winner so my middle daughter is top top she's top
[02:17:06] and she's strong she's a wrestler and gymnastics and all that crap and we're not crap
[02:17:13] but all that stuff you know that she's just she's a beast and she's mentally like um I don't
[02:17:20] want to use the term psycho but like she's real determined about stuff so anyways this is where
[02:17:26] she's a little kid you know and so go across the river and whoever brings back the biggest rock
[02:17:33] wins so she goes so they all go across and kids are grabbing rocks that are size of let's say
[02:17:40] let's say a softball you know maybe a softball what's in between the size of a softball and a soccer ball
[02:17:49] uh I don't know so so something okay low for bread like like maybe a small low for bread
[02:17:57] that's the max right that any of these kids are grabbing my daughter grab something that's like the
[02:18:03] size of a like a legit watermelon like a big giant giant giant rock a two hand oh two hand rock
[02:18:11] rub giant rock like four or five loaves of bread just a big big giant rock and and I'm watching
[02:18:18] and I'm thinking she's just gonna sink to the bottom and so I have to let it go and so I have to go
[02:18:20] back and get a smaller one maybe she can still do okay so she's come and the river has weird
[02:18:26] contours on the bottom you know you're you're you can walk a little while and then it just drop
[02:18:30] super deep and you've got to make it yeah so I'm watching her and she's she's just hard for even
[02:18:38] carry it and she carries he gets that deep section just drops down goes under and I'm waiting for
[02:18:45] to pop up but she doesn't pop up and I'm waiting for the pop up and she doesn't pop up and I'm waiting
[02:18:51] for the pop up and she doesn't pop up and then I see like an air bubble come up and I'm like
[02:18:55] oh damn but the air bubble is progressed so now watching the air bubbles like progress
[02:19:02] they're coming closer to the other side and and then it starts to come up and sure enough
[02:19:09] out she comes like a like a beast she's going to hold the rock and she comes about the water
[02:19:15] aww how we do it powered through that and brings the rock up drops it at my feet
[02:19:21] now it's like victory is yours that's that's actually pretty powerful because
[02:19:27] bro when you're I mean unless she was like defense under mindset so her she was probably like
[02:19:33] I'm not gonna let this rock defeat me I'm gonna bring it to the other side and that's kind of the mindset
[02:19:38] I'm not gonna drop it for that reason I think my daughter did was like I'm can't drop this thing
[02:19:44] so I'm stuck with it you know kind of thing that's what you know so she started you could tell she was
[02:19:49] little bit going into panic mode yeah yeah so it's the whole difference scenario technically
[02:19:54] but that's pretty savage though do you think that I should because she's probably she's scared she even said
[02:20:00] like later like oh that was like scary and all this stuff I should probably make her do it again
[02:20:04] huh yeah yeah like not make her like do it but maybe jump in with her my daughter my
[02:20:10] youngest daughter just did a big cliff jump yesterday and long swim in the ocean open open ocean waters
[02:20:15] you know you gotta get them and she was I was I thought she was gonna be panicky
[02:20:20] yeah because it's a big drop and it's ocean in whatever and it's a way of action
[02:20:24] but she was I said you good and she said yeah
[02:20:27] do you do it too yeah yeah yeah that you know unless you got traumatized by it or something like this
[02:20:33] yeah where bro Mike it's weird come from Hawaii jump off everything yeah no water go
[02:20:39] on that's right yeah you see you know what that so we have this ledge you know that you know you saw it
[02:20:46] and it's not that high but for a one year old it's pretty high pretty good but my boy and my
[02:20:51] daughter when she's one two they just jump off we catch them they can swim you know and my son
[02:20:59] he jumped off a few times and was all good but then one time he went to walk and there is this
[02:21:04] little just a slight little dip and you know when you're you know you're new to walk he slipped he
[02:21:09] tripped and he fell in I caught him but he flew on like hey decide on the edge of the thing and he's
[02:21:15] getting his crying he's won and just just over one maybe like you're making a minimum do it again
[02:21:20] he didn't want to do it though but so I didn't like push him again I just kept like hey do it I
[02:21:25] got you I got you and you'd be like you know crying in whatever and then you know my daughter would
[02:21:29] do it I would do it they need to find me like reluctantly did it and we cheered for him and now he's all good
[02:21:35] good to go like forces himself he makes me catch him now he's like almost two anyway but yeah the
[02:21:41] the point is you make him do it again right yeah but you're very accurate and saying don't traumatism
[02:21:47] yeah like you're going right now okay you'll walk him off now it's just getting worse you're not you're not
[02:21:51] yeah you know it's like the hey do it you should do it oh you want to take a little break that's okay
[02:21:56] but you know you should definitely do this it's you've already done it before you don't want to
[02:22:00] traumatize them worse yeah yeah that's not gonna work out good yeah especially with the waterman
[02:22:05] because it's like it's one minute it's all fun and games and literally your mind can flip you know
[02:22:10] like I'm about to die I used to say this so in the 90s in the seal teams when there was no
[02:22:16] war going on and whatever you're to go out and you do training there was times I would always tell
[02:22:23] guys when you're working in the water it's a real world mission like we didn't know what a real
[02:22:28] world mission got never been on one but the the fact of the matter is when you're working with
[02:22:32] the water it's a real world mission because if you screw something up you can easily die
[02:22:37] yeah easily if you're not careful one up one down just gonna throw it out there if you're doing
[02:22:41] any kind of this training any training the water one person stays up on the surface the other
[02:22:45] person you know and be a lifeguard you don't do simultaneous training in the water so just throwing
[02:22:51] that out there's a little safety note for everyone one up on down that's the rule yes and especially
[02:22:56] if you're carrying the kettlebells from on it or otherwise if the bottom of the pool the bottom of the
[02:23:02] ocean bottom of a reservoir bottom of anybody of water yeah one up one down one up one down
[02:23:10] is the rule nonetheless so that's how we utilize the pixie I think it's called pixie it's one of
[02:23:15] legend bells anyway if I guess that doesn't really have much to do with what on it offers but it
[02:23:21] just I just thought of that could just happen okay he was represented in the story boom
[02:23:27] indeed but anyway if you want cool a thin enough on it dot com slash jacco a lot of good
[02:23:31] information on there some socks on there I mentioned the socks like it's like this big deal and
[02:23:37] here's the thing it is on it socks of the TSA the other day I just stunt on it on it socks
[02:23:43] you know they're looking they're like do the dope socks anyway on it dot com slash jacco is
[02:23:48] the good spot psychological warfare is an album that you can get where I talk about stuff
[02:23:53] just overcoming when you have a little moments of weakness and I'm gonna make another one
[02:23:58] good and make another one got it got me plotting on it good it looks like it's gonna be called
[02:24:02] all your excuses are lies yes good I could take a lot you get that what I do in school play
[02:24:09] whatever MP3's are so old yeah man that was on and also jacco white tea
[02:24:16] people now seeing that we have cans of jacco white tea where do you get them you get them on
[02:24:20] Amazon if you want them it tastes awesome you can get the dry tea on there too which you add
[02:24:26] water to and then you brew it and then if either one you're gonna get a 8000 pound dead lift
[02:24:32] so that's cool do that got some books way the warrior kid
[02:24:36] and mark submission two books which one do you like better do I like better uh can't say
[02:24:45] because the first one the OG the original one from wimpy to warrior will always have
[02:24:51] that's the one that establishes establishes the ethos in my house anyway um but yeah no
[02:24:58] I can't say I think they're both outstanding but it's good how you evolve the issues you know
[02:25:04] like it's like boom basically think about how many people like all you're gonna write more
[02:25:08] well yeah what are you gonna write about think about all the issues you have as a human being
[02:25:12] and then think about all the issues you had as a kid yeah like we're gonna cover all those yeah
[02:25:15] that's like 10 books right google jacco has helped for you yeah so yeah way the warrior kid books
[02:25:21] the one thing that's cool is people as a parent you're like man how do I get my kid to
[02:25:26] even something as stupid as cleaning your room right how do you get your kid to clean your room
[02:25:30] how many this book I got pictures I got I got pictures on Twitter the other day kids got a vacuum cleaner
[02:25:37] at the dad's a pump right yeah that's a pump he's like oh look at this I don't think that's a real thing
[02:25:42] even as um like okay so kids read the book of course but I read it to my daughter who is
[02:25:49] for at the time for yeah so I'm reading it and it's answering a bunch of questions I have
[02:25:55] so it's like hey you know my kid you know my daughter's like okay okay oh he means parenting
[02:25:59] course yeah exactly right so and it's just little stuff little stuff sometimes you won't even
[02:26:03] really think up so like okay for example and I said I mentioned this before but it's a huge deal
[02:26:08] that I still use it like it's not a front of my mind every single time so you know how like you
[02:26:12] have a kid and they'll be like real good at something just kind of right away maybe your kid's
[02:26:16] more athletic or something maybe they're bigger taller whatever so they kind of win real quick you know
[02:26:22] so when they run into a situation where they're in an activity that actually requires practice
[02:26:27] like a cartwheel or something like this and so my daughter she's big she's athletic little girl
[02:26:34] way bigger she's you know and so she has this friend same age she's like a week
[02:26:38] either older a young guy forget but they're the same age and she can do a cartwheel and just
[02:26:42] fly through cartwheels one handed cartwheels all this stuff this other girl can she's way smaller
[02:26:47] you know way whatever so my daughter she doesn't like that not the fact that the girl can but just
[02:26:53] she can you know so she tries to do it and it's kind of like yeah you know it's a whole thing
[02:27:00] so it's it's very upsetting so Uncle Jake said something in the first one that this will always
[02:27:08] stick with you once she complains to me about it can't do a cartwheel and how much you can do a
[02:27:12] cartwheel but I can and all this stuff I say and that quote how do you expect to be good at
[02:27:18] something when you've never practiced the bone just like the times table yeah I can be good at times
[02:27:23] if we'll never study you know and you know how to do a cartwheel you're not foreign no
[02:27:28] not a do a cartwheel just like how you know our other neighbor can play the guitar you know
[02:27:33] much practice you know kind of thing and it's crazy because just that simple line right there
[02:27:37] like to choose for and she understands you know she's like practicing but anyway that's how
[02:27:41] that's how that book is man warrior kid books there's two of them where the warrior kid and
[02:27:46] Mark's mission you can get those you can also get discipline equals freedom the field manual
[02:27:50] field manual how to get after it simple is that the audio version of that is not on audible
[02:27:58] it's on iTunes Amazon music all about stuff also extreme ownership extreme ownership is on
[02:28:04] audible and I just looked it was number two on apple audible books whatever that's called apple
[02:28:13] i books or something number two right now the books been out for almost three years what is apple
[02:28:18] i books it's where you can get books for your audio books yeah sorry oh speaking of books by the way
[02:28:26] if you want to get this one oh unit 731 testemony yeah i'm putting on the only unit 731 just that
[02:28:34] oh then the subtitle is Japan secret biological warfare in World War II yeah dark book but see
[02:28:41] really see strongly a feel strongly that that's like one you can't know on our old days crazy but
[02:28:50] yeah anyway i'm gonna put them on our website juggle podcast you know someone just hit me up on Twitter
[02:28:55] that he's like hey we we had a long road trip for fourth of July my wife me and my kids aged you know
[02:29:05] 13 whatever listen to one 21 21 21 23 yeah that's real significant you know i don't know
[02:29:16] for what i say it family time but like that's a real the compared to the other things it could
[02:29:22] be doing in the car that's a real good thing to do in your car introduce your kids to a bit of history
[02:29:28] a bit of human nature a bit of the darkness of the world a bit of overcoming that darkness
[02:29:34] that's pretty cool these are the kind of books well so that's that but yeah these books
[02:29:39] you're you're saying these are kind of books you kind of want to have it's i think it's important to
[02:29:45] i think it's important to know what's going on and know what has happened in the world as i said
[02:29:48] yeah you want to check that out yeah but yeah i'm putting on the website that's the point
[02:29:54] i'm gonna have a uh or we have it on the page books from the episodes all by episode systems from
[02:30:00] obviously one thirty three yep and and also you've got on the website because extreme ownership
[02:30:06] which i talked about is the first book i wrote with my brother the late babin and we wrote another
[02:30:10] book which is called the Nakada Mia leadership that's also on the website right yes yeah and yeah
[02:30:18] so that's that's coming out September 25th if you want to get that on the first edition
[02:30:24] you can go for the third edition if you want to know what's the difference between third and third
[02:30:29] edition and seventh edition nothing the same what's the difference between first edition and second
[02:30:34] edition well that's you are in the game yeah so it's kind of like the difference if you take if you
[02:30:39] run a race or if you're recognized not recognized but let's say you run a race you first okay first
[02:30:48] place guys like at least got third place guy you all get medals what is what is the medal made out of
[02:30:53] we'll just say medal for lack of editor what's the difference between the medal gold no nothing
[02:31:00] only the color psychological uh it's all made the same stuff bad analogy yeah i don't even follow
[02:31:07] it but all right cool first edition that's the point that's where we get it's on it talking to be
[02:31:11] first here and also if you want to bring myself lat babin jpg to know Dave Burke we got
[02:31:22] Mike's a rally got Flynn cocker now on the team if you need help with leadership in your
[02:31:29] organization whatever kind of organization it is you can hit us up echelon front is the name of the company
[02:31:36] we sell problems through leadership echelon front dot com geochrome we have one more monster
[02:31:42] in 2018 it is in San Francisco it's October 17th and 18th it's gonna sell out I was I just got an
[02:31:51] update from jamey today the off-directed echelon front insure she was saying that we're good
[02:31:58] gonna sell out lots of new then we thought so if you want to come up there at extremownership dot com
[02:32:03] the monster i've got a video to post about that too i haven't posted yet but yeah that's that
[02:32:11] also on top of the monster we have the roll call which is for police military law enforcement
[02:32:20] firefighters and first responders it's for people in uniform that's happening September 21st in
[02:32:26] Dallas, Texas it's only one day so you don't have to miss too much work it's a lower price point
[02:32:32] so you can afford it or you can get your organization to pay for it a little easier come on down to that
[02:32:37] it's a great program i just finished putting together the agenda yesterday and so come on down
[02:32:43] until then if you want to kick us it's a little bit more virtually until we are together live
[02:32:53] which we will be we'll be together live at the muster in San Francisco or at the roll call in
[02:32:57] Dallas, Texas or at the immersion camp in Maine we'll see you at one of those but until then
[02:33:04] if you do want to kick it with us we will be on the interwebs on twitter on instagram and on
[02:33:10] that's your base at bookie ball echo is that echo Charles and i am at jockel willink and of
[02:33:17] course to all the military personnel that are listening you provide the freedom that allows us to do
[02:33:27] what we do every day you also hold the line against the evil that we talked about today
[02:33:32] so thank you to police law enforcement firefighters paramedics border patrol other first responders
[02:33:41] you actually provide the safety that allows us to do what we do every day so thanks to you and
[02:33:46] to the families that support all those that serve thank you for supporting those families that
[02:33:57] serve and to everyone else that's listening thank you for listening thanks for supporting i know
[02:34:03] it was a rough listen i know it is it's rough for me to read it's rough for me to talk about but
[02:34:09] it's also a reality and if you don't face reality you can't fix it if you don't face your
[02:34:15] past you can't learn from it so what you have to do is you have to face and you have to face
[02:34:21] what scares you you have to face what bothers you you have to face your weaknesses face your fears
[02:34:29] and face your own darkness face them own them and overcome them all by stepping up and getting after it
[02:34:41] and until next time this is echo and jockel out