Jocko Podcast 131 w/ Echo Charles: How To Win With People You Don't Like

2018-06-27T21:02:25Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening. 0:00:16 - How to never get interrupted. 0:09:11 - Shouldn't your superiors take Extreme Ownership? 0:17:49 - Getting past plateaus in Jiu Jitsu. 0:23:31 - The Exception to "There are no bad teams, only bad leaders." 0:38:11 - How to win with people you don't like. 1:00:51 - How to get back into the swing of things after tragedy. 1:06:48 - Excerpt from Anthony Bourdain's book.  1:14:00 - Support. 1:46:51 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

I think even people who are just naturally defensive, you know, you know, because people are different, you know, I think over time they tend to be, when they kind of build this, kind of, when everyone builds a reputation of not blaming, it's like they they, they let that natural guard down in these tent, look over time, you know, even if they at first, they don't want to. And they get, and you kind of said this anyway, but you give them experience, like when you let them make for your decision to get, because really that's really what common sense is, right, if you have or don't have common sense, it's like, if you have a lot of experience, common sense is like, you're a little bit more in touch with it than someone with very little experience. No, it's good for this and most of the things where if I or we start thinking that we're the exception, so we don't have to put in like, I don't know, like the work or whatever, not necessarily work, but the, you know, like, okay, we'll take this. You know what it's funny is we think about like, why you wouldn't like someone, what causes you to not like someone, most of the time that's your ego anyways. You almost think when somebody asks me a question like this, you almost think in their back of their mind they're going, you know what, Jock was going to tell me and I'm going to go even harder. If you brought them to the airport and you know when you're checking in, you know, and you put the your luggage on the scale and you know you were pushing it, you know that it may be over 50 pounds and you're like nervous. Not as it wasn't as overt, but just like, you know, I don't like, I went because I, not only is he like, when you look at him or whatever, they're kind of competitive with you, You know, you got to do that with your kids sometimes, you know, because like, your kid is doing something that you know they shouldn't be doing, but it's kind of funny. But if they're like normal shorts, I'm going to scrub it with like a brush and it's going to kind of mess up the shorts a little bit right there. And a lot of times, just like I said, it has to do with like your ego or your, you know, this, this sense of vengeance, little micro sense of vengeance because I can't believe she doesn't respect the fact that I took out the trash. Like if you're in scenarios often where you were looking around and seeing what other people are doing and wearing, like, and all this stuff, if you're in constantly in situations like that, that will become more part of your common sense. Like any feeling of like, oh, oh, I should, you know, excuse me, you know, whatever. And you still think the normal morale, like people need to just toughen up, you know, like freaking the reality. And I was telling him, I was like, oh, when I talk on the podcast about the paltune commander, that was like the best, that's when I'm talking to he's like, no way. And sometimes like behavior or whatever things like that can lead to behavior that makes people not want to work for you or not feel good about the job. Actually, where, you know, like some, bosses that we like, hey, I'm not here to make you feel good or I'm not here to make friends or whatever. You're just going to be people will just be, well, you know, the one you're not going to like, on. But all you got to do is ask, like, is this going to help the relationship with my wife or my family, whoever it is in your, is this going to help the relationship if I do this or don't do this or isn't going to hurt it? And I'd be, look, and he was saying, like, oh, I look at him and be like, sir, you know, you don't need to do that. Do you talk about building relationships a lot at work, even when people whom you might not like, even with people whom you don't like. It's like decked out to take into the highest level the Roll call is like hey, we're here to get the information out to people that need it People that are in the field every day whether it's in the military So if it's like, you know, the guy who, you know, they, I don't think that my boss cares about me. So it's like to say, I mean, there are plenty of people who in normal everyday life have normal common sense, like everyone else, who would wear shoes on the mat. Which is where when you talk it like you're not saying fluff, you know, when you talk it's like something. Anyway, so I found in social situations, if I feel that, like if I'm like trying to talk or that I'm getting interrupted a lot a lot, man, in a way, they don't really care that much about what you have to say. You know, it'll make it like kind of friddle fray or something like that. It's field manual that's kind of manual in my opinion, but this is like a manual for life I think it's like a very basic backbone for life It is start there you'll be you'll be solid. but maybe they do something just this much different than you, you know, like a just different in philosophy or something like that. Just like, I mean, back to the questions, kind of like, just to kind of get a handle on understanding what extreme ownership is.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 131.
[00:00:04] With echo Charles and me, Jocco Winning.
[00:00:07] Good evening, I come.
[00:00:08] Good evening.
[00:00:09] It is time for some Q&A.
[00:00:10] Yes.
[00:00:11] To be banter around for a while, she just gets started.
[00:00:15] Question number one.
[00:00:17] I've been somewhat of a pushover for the majority of my life.
[00:00:22] Since listening to the podcast, I've been trying to assert myself more.
[00:00:25] One thing I can't seem to shake is constantly being interrupted.
[00:00:29] How can I rise above and overcome this obstacle?
[00:00:33] Should I read the hashtag?
[00:00:36] The hashtag fellow hardcore.
[00:00:38] Okay.
[00:00:39] There you go.
[00:00:40] There's a little layer in there because you put rise above and there.
[00:00:44] So I thought about this because I would say I don't get interrupted a lot.
[00:00:54] But I think that's kind of the current state of me.
[00:00:59] I think there's a reason why I don't get interrupted a lot.
[00:01:01] And it's not because people are going to think, well, that's because you're going to
[00:01:05] bash people in the head with a club.
[00:01:09] That's not the actual answer of why I'm looking interrupted.
[00:01:12] So one thing I think is important is, you've heard me say this before, the less people
[00:01:17] talk, the more people listen.
[00:01:19] So when I'm in a group of people that all want to talk and I want to talk over each
[00:01:24] other and they want to cut each other off, you get in that group right there.
[00:01:28] I don't talk.
[00:01:30] I don't talk.
[00:01:31] I let there's, I sit there, I listen to them and I plot.
[00:01:36] Then I think and I put together my thoughts correctly so that when I do decide to say something,
[00:01:43] it's going to have impact.
[00:01:46] And then I wait for the right moment.
[00:01:48] Because if there's people going to be agreeing back and forth, I wait for a low in the
[00:01:53] fire and when that low comes, then I make my point in a very direct manner.
[00:02:02] I might even have to wait until the conversation is like all but over, wait till they're
[00:02:07] done with their little fire fight.
[00:02:10] And then I'm going to talk.
[00:02:23] Since I've been thinking about it, it's going to be articulated in a way that I can present
[00:02:26] my full point.
[00:02:29] So I think that's an effective way to do things.
[00:02:32] I think if you let people speak a bunch, you let them get it out of their system and then
[00:02:37] when you decide to talk, they don't have anything left to say.
[00:02:40] So that's a way to stop getting cut off.
[00:02:41] So this is almost like flanking, right?
[00:02:43] This is flanking the fact that when people have a bunch to say and they got all these thoughts
[00:02:48] in their head and they want to get them all out, let them get them out.
[00:02:51] Don't try and fight that battle.
[00:02:52] They've got a bunch of things they want to say.
[00:02:54] Let them say it.
[00:02:55] Also, as we know, when you listen to someone else talk, you now know what their ideas are.
[00:03:03] You know what they're thinking.
[00:03:04] There's a power and not saying anything because it allows you to think and it allows
[00:03:08] you to hear what other people think.
[00:03:10] It allows you to hear other people's own conversation.
[00:03:13] You get to hear other people's counters to what people are saying.
[00:03:17] And you're not having to expend any ammunition yourself.
[00:03:21] Someone else is doing it.
[00:03:22] You know, the third or fourth or fifth piece person, the conversation that's expending ammunition
[00:03:26] and running their mouth to try and counter some point that someone's made.
[00:03:31] Let them do that.
[00:03:32] Because by the way, then you get to see what the other counter is.
[00:03:35] So I think being assertive doesn't mean talking more.
[00:03:40] I think being assertive means talking less talking at the appropriate times, monitoring
[00:03:47] and understanding the firefight that's happening so that when other people have
[00:03:52] expended their ammunition, you can step in and you can take your shots in a simple clear
[00:03:59] concise manner.
[00:04:01] That's what I think.
[00:04:03] I think you're right.
[00:04:04] I think you built up this reputation though.
[00:04:07] That's a little added element to your specific situation.
[00:04:10] Which is where when you talk it like you're not saying fluff, you know, when you talk
[00:04:15] it's like something.
[00:04:16] Well, that's a good point.
[00:04:18] So if you don't want to get caught off and 70% of the things that you say aren't really
[00:04:27] that impactful and don't add a lot to the conversation, well, then there's a good chance
[00:04:30] that when you open your mouth to start talking, someone else doesn't think it's going
[00:04:35] to be important.
[00:04:36] So they just jump right on top of you.
[00:04:37] But if you say less and to your point, if the things that you say generally are well
[00:04:42] fought out and clear and are going to have impact, well, then we have a good chance that
[00:04:47] you're not going to be caught off.
[00:04:49] People actually want to hear what you're going to say.
[00:04:51] Yeah, don't talk just to talk ever.
[00:04:53] Yeah, I see.
[00:04:54] And that's a hard.
[00:04:55] I shouldn't say ever, but hardly ever.
[00:04:57] Yeah.
[00:04:58] Yeah, that's a hard one.
[00:05:00] Because it's not like people are interrupting you on purpose because you don't have
[00:05:05] nothing to say.
[00:05:06] You're just talking fluff.
[00:05:08] That's nice.
[00:05:09] Not a conscious on purpose thing.
[00:05:10] A lot of the time.
[00:05:11] I think anyway.
[00:05:12] Don't feel like it is.
[00:05:13] It feels like subconscious.
[00:05:16] How can someone see fit to actually follow through with interrupting somebody if they don't
[00:05:21] think?
[00:05:22] This isn't quite that important.
[00:05:24] At the very least, what I'm about to interrupt with is more important.
[00:05:28] So there's some people think that what they're about to say is really important.
[00:05:32] Yeah, here's another thing.
[00:05:33] It's like the little boy that cried wolf, right?
[00:05:35] If I talk and talk and talk and talk, I'm taking away the value of each one of those
[00:05:43] statements that I make because I'm making so many statements that not all of them can have
[00:05:46] a high level of value.
[00:05:48] So who do you pay more attention to?
[00:05:53] The person that makes 100 statements?
[00:05:56] And what are those?
[00:05:57] Okay, let's say you want to pay attention to the person that makes 100 statements.
[00:06:00] How much can you pay attention to those 100 statements?
[00:06:03] How much do you gather from those 100 statements?
[00:06:07] It's limited amount.
[00:06:09] It's 1% per statement, right?
[00:06:12] What's 1%?
[00:06:13] You have to follow the, I make some of the statements.
[00:06:15] That's just 1% per statement.
[00:06:17] If the person says one thing, how much percent do you pay attention to that?
[00:06:21] That's right.
[00:06:22] You said it all over the present.
[00:06:24] So there you go.
[00:06:26] I mean, since Jack, good luck with that fellow hardcore kid.
[00:06:29] So I guess he'd kind of have, I mean, assuming that, you know, we understand his situation,
[00:06:34] it's hard, overall.
[00:06:37] It's kind of like you have to build a reputation of saying only important things.
[00:06:41] That's a good way to, please, to start just be quiet.
[00:06:44] There.
[00:06:45] And not only like exactly exactly what you said, that added thing which you kind of actually
[00:06:48] may have already said.
[00:06:50] But when you sit back and just listen to him, it'll cause you to have to say less because
[00:06:54] what if you wanted to like, oh, I was going to make this point.
[00:06:57] That's the feeling you get when you want to interrupt someone's like, oh, I want to make
[00:07:00] this point right now.
[00:07:01] Kind of thing, you will find out you just let people talk, you don't have to make that
[00:07:04] point.
[00:07:05] They know this stuff.
[00:07:06] You know, all of it.
[00:07:07] And you'll find, that's probably a lot of the time.
[00:07:09] You know, and by the way, if I step into make a point that people already know, how
[00:07:16] impactful is that point, it's a very limited impact.
[00:07:21] So the more points that you can hear that you know and that everyone knows and that you don't
[00:07:25] have to say the better off you are.
[00:07:27] So when you do make a point and it's a point that no one really thought of how impactful
[00:07:31] is that point.
[00:07:32] The answer is it's very impactful.
[00:07:34] Yeah, and it comes way more clear that it might be a point than no one thought of after
[00:07:38] you listen to everyone talk for how long.
[00:07:41] Then if I go away this one that covered.
[00:07:42] So I can say that you have to say all these other things that I was done.
[00:07:45] Not about making an interrupt with or whatever.
[00:07:47] Yeah, just be quiet, right?
[00:07:48] Just be quiet.
[00:07:49] And in social situations, for example, to me and this is what I kind of started doing or
[00:07:57] try to start doing in social situations, you know how like a, okay, I listen to my wife
[00:08:01] and her friends talk and there is just a boom, boom, interrupting in a, it's not rude or
[00:08:05] nothing.
[00:08:06] It's just because they're just talking and yeah, that's how they roll.
[00:08:08] Yes, how they roll.
[00:08:09] And to the point where I'm getting like little mild micro doses of anxiety because of all
[00:08:15] the interruptions.
[00:08:16] Yeah, it's like a lot.
[00:08:17] They just talk a lot.
[00:08:18] That's what it is.
[00:08:19] Anyway, so I found in social situations, if I feel that, like if I'm like trying to talk
[00:08:25] or that I'm getting interrupted a lot a lot, man, in a way, they don't really care that
[00:08:29] much about what you have to say.
[00:08:31] They have more like they care more about what they have to say.
[00:08:36] And it's a social situation.
[00:08:37] So yeah, you might as well just be quiet.
[00:08:39] You're adding less value interrupting their valuable stuff, you know, so you're be quiet.
[00:08:46] And you'll find that they'll want to talk to you more too if you be quiet and not interrupt
[00:08:49] them.
[00:08:50] You might have to take some heavy on the interruptions front though, because that is kind
[00:08:54] of knowing if you pay attention to it.
[00:08:56] That's what I think.
[00:08:57] That's you.
[00:08:58] I see what you're doing, Anna.
[00:09:00] Next question.
[00:09:02] I saw your TED talk.
[00:09:04] I like most people have a boss.
[00:09:06] If it wasn't the fault of the guys below you and there are people above you, shouldn't
[00:09:11] they take ownership.
[00:09:13] IE, your commanding officer, and then it in turn his why would ownership only drift
[00:09:19] halfway up.
[00:09:22] So in an ideal world, ownership goes up and down the chain of command.
[00:09:27] Absolutely.
[00:09:28] And that is how problems get solved because people take ownership of those problems throughout
[00:09:33] the chain of command.
[00:09:35] Now does the world always work like that?
[00:09:40] No, it doesn't.
[00:09:41] That's okay.
[00:09:42] That's fine because as the boss of what year the boss of you can't make any excuses,
[00:09:47] that's the way it happens.
[00:09:49] And when an organization is taking ownership, when you've got a team where everyone is taking
[00:09:54] ownership on that team, there's absolutely overlap of everyone taking responsibility for
[00:10:01] the different problems.
[00:10:02] There will be some overlap.
[00:10:03] I could have done this to help out.
[00:10:04] Oh, yeah, I would have done this better now.
[00:10:07] We both solved the same problem.
[00:10:08] But it's redundant but good because now we got two people addressing the problem.
[00:10:15] So that's not a bad thing.
[00:10:16] So when people are taking ownership up and down the chain of command, the problems are getting
[00:10:19] not just solved by one angle, but by multiple different angles of everyone that's taking
[00:10:24] ownership of that problem.
[00:10:27] When the blue one blue happened, that I talked about extreme ownership that was in the
[00:10:31] TED Talk.
[00:10:33] And I talk about this, my guys took ownership of what they did wrong as well, the guy that
[00:10:38] shot the Iraqi soldier, the radio and took ownership of the fact that he didn't pass the
[00:10:45] word quick enough.
[00:10:46] The element leader took ownership of the fact that the Iraqi said, got in a way from
[00:10:49] him.
[00:10:51] They all owned their little pieces.
[00:10:54] And of course, I owned it as well.
[00:10:57] And when I took ownership of everything, it wasn't like those guys then said, okay, well,
[00:11:03] then I'm absolved and I don't have to change anything.
[00:11:05] No, no, no, let's get still realized that they made some mistakes and some things that
[00:11:09] they need to clean up.
[00:11:10] So I took ownership of the same thing.
[00:11:12] They were taking ownership and guess what?
[00:11:14] Then again, it was redundant that we were all trying to solve the problems.
[00:11:18] Now, this is the opposite.
[00:11:19] This doesn't happen.
[00:11:20] When you start blaming people, everyone makes excuses.
[00:11:22] That's just the way it works.
[00:11:25] So I think that that's what you have to think about.
[00:11:29] So like I said, ideally, when a leader takes ownership, so do the people up and down the
[00:11:35] chain of command.
[00:11:37] They also take ownership of the problems that if they do, that's great.
[00:11:40] And the leader can then monitor what those people up and down the chain of command, do
[00:11:45] to fix the problem.
[00:11:47] And if they fix the problems, then that's great.
[00:11:50] That's the way it works.
[00:11:51] And if they don't fix the problems, then that's when the leader has to own it up and down
[00:11:56] the chain of command, then it still will be responsible and take ownership of fixing
[00:11:59] the problem.
[00:12:02] So the other piece of this, I guess, is that that's why extreme ownership works.
[00:12:14] It works because people that don't take ownership again up or down the chain of command,
[00:12:19] they will end up being overrun by the people that take ownership of the chain of command.
[00:12:26] Take ownership.
[00:12:28] It might not happen immediately, but eventually the people that make excuses will be overrun
[00:12:34] by the people that take ownership.
[00:12:36] That's the way it works.
[00:12:37] And by the way, and again, I talked about this in the TED talk, when that whole thing happened
[00:12:43] and I took ownership of it, my boss then trusted me more, not less.
[00:12:49] And that's what happens.
[00:12:52] You end up increasing your trust.
[00:12:55] So take ownership.
[00:13:00] If your boss takes ownership too, that's awesome.
[00:13:03] That's awesome.
[00:13:05] That means you've got multiple people trying to solve the problem, which is good for the
[00:13:09] team.
[00:13:11] You guys get asked this a lot.
[00:13:13] For some reason, life gets asked this a lot.
[00:13:16] Where it's a lot, like almost every single time I see life in a question answering situation.
[00:13:23] They say, what do I do or what happens when my boss isn't taking ownership?
[00:13:28] Or what do I do when my whatever isn't taking ownership?
[00:13:31] The question is ultimately, what do I do when the other guy isn't taking ownership?
[00:13:36] See how you're smiling right now because we all get asked so obviously, essentially, that's
[00:13:41] what this is.
[00:13:42] He's not in the scenario, so it's not.
[00:13:45] And how you guys always say, it's like, the thing is, extreme ownership isn't about
[00:13:50] the other guy taking ownership or not taking ownership.
[00:13:52] That's about everything you can personally do to take ownership.
[00:13:56] That's it.
[00:13:57] It stops right there.
[00:13:59] No, just like what you said.
[00:14:00] If everyone else is taking ownership, which will happen because it's kind of this weird
[00:14:03] contagious kind of thing.
[00:14:05] And I don't want to throw it out there like, oh, if I take ownership, then everyone's
[00:14:08] automatically right.
[00:14:09] That doesn't happen because they'll be not those that don't.
[00:14:11] There's some people that are not looking to take ownership.
[00:14:13] And again, those that people that will eventually get overwhelmed.
[00:14:15] Yes.
[00:14:16] Because who do you want working for you?
[00:14:17] The guy that says, oh, this one's a my fault.
[00:14:18] No, it doesn't.
[00:14:19] If you want that guy working for you because that person not going to change, and I'm
[00:14:22] going to do anything different, they're not going to get that problem solved.
[00:14:25] You want the person working for you that says, you know what, this is my fault.
[00:14:28] This is what I'm going to do to fix it.
[00:14:29] Here we go.
[00:14:30] You go, okay.
[00:14:31] Well, let's you continue to do your job.
[00:14:32] And I want you to continue to do your job.
[00:14:34] And by the way, when a promotion opportunity comes up, guess who I'm promoting?
[00:14:37] The guy that makes a bunch of excuses and blames other people, the guy that takes ownership
[00:14:40] and gets problems solved.
[00:14:41] There you go.
[00:14:42] It's a no-brainer.
[00:14:43] And I think as people see that in an organization, the majority of people.
[00:14:48] Now this I will say, the majority of people, they will also take ownership.
[00:14:53] There will be a minority of people that go, oh, I'm going to slough off and I'm going to
[00:14:56] keep blaming other people.
[00:14:57] And in their minds, they think they look good, right?
[00:15:00] In my mind, when I go, when it was my fault, it was echo's fault.
[00:15:02] I think I saved myself for the blame.
[00:15:05] What I really did was look like an excuse making little baby.
[00:15:07] And I don't want to promote me.
[00:15:10] Because I know it wasn't my fault.
[00:15:11] Oh, the podcast income was my fault.
[00:15:13] Is echo's fault.
[00:15:14] Oh, really?
[00:15:15] Okay.
[00:15:16] Well, let's think about that.
[00:15:17] Do you want, who's a loser?
[00:15:18] Who's responsible?
[00:15:19] I'm shirking their responsibility and fling it on some other person.
[00:15:22] I don't want that person working for me.
[00:15:24] No.
[00:15:26] So that's why it works.
[00:15:28] Yeah.
[00:15:29] And I'm scared of it.
[00:15:30] People are scared that, well, if I take the blame, I'm going to look bad.
[00:15:35] You look bad when you don't take the blame.
[00:15:36] That's when you look bad.
[00:15:38] Yeah, pretty much any time, in one wearing another, pretty much any time you look at other
[00:15:42] people and be like, hey, what about them?
[00:15:45] You know, in this extreme ownership situation.
[00:15:47] Like, it goes against the very nature of extreme ownership to ask, like, hey, what about
[00:15:52] them?
[00:15:53] Why didn't they take responsibility?
[00:15:54] Just like, I mean, back to the questions, kind of like, just to kind of get a handle
[00:15:57] on understanding what extreme ownership is.
[00:16:00] If you start to incorporate, hey, what about them?
[00:16:03] Hey, what about the higher-ups?
[00:16:04] Why should the ownership stop at you?
[00:16:06] Well, here's the thing.
[00:16:07] It doesn't begin.
[00:16:08] It begins and stops at me.
[00:16:11] That's 100% of what it is.
[00:16:13] Now, other people, I mean, if I can step out of my own situation of extreme ownership
[00:16:17] and just kind of evaluate other people when they see you or feel you or see you taking ownership
[00:16:22] of stuff, I think it tends to be contagious.
[00:16:25] Like, this is, no, absolutely.
[00:16:26] That's what I just said, the majority of people with you take ownership.
[00:16:30] When I take ownership of something, if I go echo, you know, this is my fault that the
[00:16:33] podcast didn't come out.
[00:16:34] Whatever.
[00:16:35] This is my fault that we didn't get this done.
[00:16:36] Your tendency isn't to go, oh, cool.
[00:16:39] It's Joc was fault.
[00:16:40] Yeah, I agree with you.
[00:16:41] You go, no, man, I should have done this or I should have done that.
[00:16:43] And now, once again, we're both trying to solve the problem.
[00:16:47] That's the way I usually end up.
[00:16:48] Yeah.
[00:16:49] Really interesting, how like Jamie, you know, you know, you're with Jamie, you're Jamie.
[00:16:54] That's fun.
[00:16:55] And she'll, like, all make some mistake, you know, on the spelling of something, on
[00:17:00] some video, I don't know something.
[00:17:01] And she'll, she's real good at taking ownership.
[00:17:04] She's like, oh, you know, I should have, you know, whatever, whatever.
[00:17:06] And to the point, something, I was like, I see what you're doing.
[00:17:09] And it's true.
[00:17:10] Like any feeling of like, oh, oh, I should, you know, excuse me, you know, whatever.
[00:17:15] Any feeling of that gone.
[00:17:17] When someone is like, I don't know, it's my fault.
[00:17:18] I should have caught that.
[00:17:19] Or what do you, you should have caught that.
[00:17:21] I should have caught that.
[00:17:22] I made the video kind of thing kind of thing.
[00:17:24] But man, it works.
[00:17:25] So like, it's real contagious.
[00:17:26] I think even people who are just naturally defensive, you know, you know, because people
[00:17:30] are different, you know, I think over time they tend to be, when they kind of build this,
[00:17:36] kind of, when everyone builds a reputation of not blaming, it's like they
[00:17:40] they, they let that natural guard down in these tent, look over time, you know, even if
[00:17:45] they at first, they don't want to.
[00:17:47] Jack.
[00:17:48] Next question.
[00:17:50] What are some ways to get out of a rut in jujitsu?
[00:17:54] We're just talking about this.
[00:17:57] It's all fair.
[00:17:58] I always get caught in the same spot, cross side and can't move.
[00:18:03] What should I do?
[00:18:06] This is a brutal answer.
[00:18:08] With the truth, if you have a hard time in a certain position, start there every time,
[00:18:14] start with a person across the side until you get used to it.
[00:18:19] And then on top of starting there and you start working your techniques, learn some new
[00:18:24] escapes, because whatever you're doing right now isn't working.
[00:18:27] So learn some new excuse, escapes.
[00:18:29] Now this doesn't mean that you need to learn 47 escapes.
[00:18:33] But if you've got your one go to escape and it's not working, there's actually there's
[00:18:37] a pretty good chance if you only know one escape from something that's not going to work.
[00:18:40] Because one escape, then the guests with the person has to defend, one thing.
[00:18:43] And so they stop it.
[00:18:45] So learn, you know, three escapes total, maybe four escapes total.
[00:18:52] And these are escapes that must be escapes that kind of chain together, which most of the
[00:18:56] time they do.
[00:18:58] So you learn, you know, you can ask, obviously, you can ask your instructor.
[00:19:02] You can ask some of the other students that you see get out.
[00:19:05] How did you do that?
[00:19:06] You can even go look at YouTube and Google cross side escapes and get some good ideas
[00:19:10] from there.
[00:19:12] And then you're going to have to take risks while you try your newest escapes in, you
[00:19:16] can drill them, of course.
[00:19:17] But then eventually you're going to have to try and live because when you do something
[00:19:21] in a drill, it is not the same as doing it live.
[00:19:24] It's, there are adjustments that need to be made and things that you need to figure out.
[00:19:28] And you're not going to be successful.
[00:19:30] The first hundred times or fifty times or twenty eight times or four hundred and twenty
[00:19:36] times that you try something.
[00:19:38] There's a lot of little things you got to figure out and you're going to get caught in
[00:19:41] some of those times.
[00:19:42] You're going to try something you're going to get caught.
[00:19:44] So take risks and try your escapes.
[00:19:51] Another point, and I've probably talked about this before specifically, cross side.
[00:19:58] Don't wait until the person settles in before you start your escape.
[00:20:03] And this is true with anything, right?
[00:20:04] This is true with life.
[00:20:05] Don't wait until you're, if you see a bad position coming, don't wait until the position.
[00:20:10] Don't wait until the bad thing actually fully happens to you.
[00:20:13] No, start to defend it before it settles in on you.
[00:20:16] Get a bad scenario coming down the line.
[00:20:18] Start to aggressively counter that bad thing.
[00:20:21] Whatever it is before it actually gets you.
[00:20:28] And if you can do that, then you will be, I guarantee that's a lot of the problem right
[00:20:35] there.
[00:20:36] Because, you know what?
[00:20:38] Because getting out of a cross side is a really hard position.
[00:20:40] You get out of, I don't care who you are.
[00:20:41] I've a hard time.
[00:20:42] When Dean gets a cross side on me, it is hard to get out.
[00:20:45] Like I mean, it's really hard to get out.
[00:20:49] So what does that mean?
[00:20:50] Yeah, that's a dominant position.
[00:20:53] And that's the last thing is like you have to take some risks to get out.
[00:20:58] Sometimes you got to break the rules to get out.
[00:21:00] You got to do something.
[00:21:01] You got to offer up a possible submission to them that you know is coming.
[00:21:06] There's some things that you can do like that.
[00:21:09] But escaping before the situation has occurred to you is a very positive thing.
[00:21:17] You could do that with anything.
[00:21:18] You're in a relationship, you see something bad coming down the easy, a human being, you're
[00:21:23] in a relationship with, and you see that the relationship is going in a bad direction.
[00:21:27] If you try and either fix it or end it before the thing goes sideways, that's the smart thing
[00:21:36] to do.
[00:21:37] Don't wait until everything's a disaster.
[00:21:40] You've got to go and get the restraining order.
[00:21:43] Whatever.
[00:21:44] You're calling the cops because you've got someone that's acting irrational.
[00:21:49] Don't wait until that moment.
[00:21:52] Solve the problem as early as possible.
[00:21:54] Is the point.
[00:21:55] Yeah.
[00:21:56] So that's how you get out of that little rut.
[00:21:58] Yeah, that's what you said in the beginning of the start in that bad situation.
[00:22:03] That's a huge hug.
[00:22:05] And I don't know if all the academy's do this, but I mean, Dean has always done this
[00:22:08] where before you do open matter, the life rolling, whatever.
[00:22:11] Right before that, there's a part where it's essentially situational training.
[00:22:16] You know, you start side control.
[00:22:17] We're going to go for two minutes or minute half whatever, one night top one and bottom
[00:22:21] obviously.
[00:22:22] And if you get out restarted.
[00:22:23] Exactly right.
[00:22:24] Yeah, you know, the top guys trying to submit the bottom guy, the bottom guy is trying
[00:22:26] to escape.
[00:22:27] If the bottom guy escapes, you start over.
[00:22:29] Yeah.
[00:22:30] That's it.
[00:22:31] And the other point to that is if you get submitted doesn't count.
[00:22:33] Exactly right.
[00:22:34] Like it's like, yeah, of course.
[00:22:35] I'm trying new things.
[00:22:36] I'm taking rest.
[00:22:37] So I expect you.
[00:22:38] I actually expect that you're going to get submitted because you're
[00:22:41] trying new things.
[00:22:42] If you, in fact, if you don't get submitted, you fail because you didn't try
[00:22:46] something new that was really, yeah, you're just staying there.
[00:22:48] Yeah, that's not what that drills for.
[00:22:51] And you can feel it, too.
[00:22:52] You know, like, okay, sure the guy tapped me, yeah, you don't want him to
[00:22:54] tap you up, but you're there at escape.
[00:22:56] That's it.
[00:22:57] You know, so it's not about like winning this match or losing this round or whatever,
[00:23:01] you know, you're, and then you get so familiar with being inside control.
[00:23:05] So when you do go live, you're like, oh, I'm familiar because I've done this situation
[00:23:08] for drill.
[00:23:09] Full speed, by the way, it's a full speed drill.
[00:23:11] And yeah, you're just so familiar with that position.
[00:23:13] So not only more comfortable, you know those different escapes that you've learned,
[00:23:17] you don't really have that day or whatever, whenever you learn them.
[00:23:20] And then you can execute way better.
[00:23:22] You can comfortable being uncomfortable.
[00:23:24] Yeah, but that help, and that helps so much those, those situational sparring drills.
[00:23:32] Next question.
[00:23:33] Juggle.
[00:23:34] There are no bad teams, only bad leaders.
[00:23:38] Do you think there are exceptions to this?
[00:23:41] If so, how do you know your part of the exception?
[00:23:47] That is a quote from the book Extreme Ownership written by myself on my brother,
[00:23:51] Lave Babin and it is a quote that I don't want to say we stole, but we stole.
[00:23:58] We appropriated from David Hackworth, who said, there's no bad, I think he said no bad
[00:24:05] officers, no bad units, only bad officers, and Napoleon, who said there's no bad regiments,
[00:24:11] only bad kernels.
[00:24:12] And we said there's no bad teams, only bad leaders.
[00:24:16] And the question is, is there an exception to this?
[00:24:19] And how do you know if you're part of the exception?
[00:24:21] Well, actually there is, there's a big exception to this.
[00:24:25] And the exception is that there are bad leaders with good teams.
[00:24:30] That is true.
[00:24:31] That can happen.
[00:24:32] Sometimes you get a bad leader that is running a really, really good team.
[00:24:37] So that's an exception.
[00:24:38] I guess it's an exception this world.
[00:24:39] Maybe that's the way I took it.
[00:24:42] So you get a team that's so good that they just continue to perform even though they have
[00:24:47] a horrible leader.
[00:24:48] They perform despite their bad leader.
[00:24:52] Gotcha.
[00:24:53] Now, what this doesn't, this does not prove, you know, I always say leadership is the most
[00:24:59] important thing on the battlefield.
[00:25:01] This doesn't disprove that statement.
[00:25:05] You'd think maybe it does because, oh, you got a bad leader and you got a good team, then
[00:25:08] maybe leadership isn't that important.
[00:25:10] That's wrong.
[00:25:11] Actually, what it proves is that leadership can come from any level inside the organization.
[00:25:17] That's what it proves.
[00:25:18] And it proves that because I've seen that over and over again when I was running the training
[00:25:20] from the sea of pollutants, eventually I didn't care where the leadership in the
[00:25:27] Platoon was because I realized that it was a real, it was a real, hard thing to hope for
[00:25:35] that you had the person that was in the leadership positions, like the Platoon commander or
[00:25:42] the Platoon chief to assume or to figure that they were going to be the leader that you
[00:25:49] wanted them to be was a big assumption to make.
[00:25:52] And so what I realized after training for a while is that even though I wanted the leaders
[00:25:55] to be those senior guys who were supposed to be taking leadership, eventually I realized
[00:26:00] as I didn't care where that leadership came from.
[00:26:03] As long as there were a couple of good leaders, you'd end up with a good C-Oplatoon and
[00:26:07] the Platoon would be on track.
[00:26:10] Now maybe the question is what this person is hinting at.
[00:26:15] The exception being is there an exception that if there is a bad team, maybe that team
[00:26:20] is just so filled with bad people that they can't get the job done.
[00:26:24] That's the kind of exception he's talking about.
[00:26:25] Or failing because the team is so bad, even though the leader is good, even though the
[00:26:30] leader is good, but the team is so bad that that's an exception to the rule.
[00:26:35] Well guess what?
[00:26:39] Who's responsible for the people on the team?
[00:26:42] Who's responsible for training the people on the team so that they can get good at their
[00:26:45] job and they can perform with excellence or who's in charge of getting rid of the people
[00:26:52] that are so far so that the team steps up their performance.
[00:26:55] Well, the answer to all those questions is the leader.
[00:26:59] So if you're on a bad team and you're leading the team, it's your fault.
[00:27:04] And there's no exception to that.
[00:27:06] Zero.
[00:27:07] Yeah, I'm over here trying to think of the exception, but just what you said is like,
[00:27:11] yeah, it kind of negates any.
[00:27:13] Hey, let's take a real, real simple example of like a sports team, right?
[00:27:19] Oh, this sports team got dealt a bad hand and now the people on the team, well, what
[00:27:24] are you going to do?
[00:27:26] You're going to train those people.
[00:27:27] Who's responsible?
[00:27:28] I'm not saying you're going to perform right now, but you can get on the trajectory
[00:27:31] will you be good eventually?
[00:27:34] Now if you just blame, hey, I got a bad team.
[00:27:35] Well, guess what?
[00:27:36] Then you don't put an effort.
[00:27:37] Guess what?
[00:27:38] You're going to continue to be a loser.
[00:27:39] The exception.
[00:27:40] Yeah, my team and my team is just so bad.
[00:27:44] Train your people.
[00:27:45] I'm not saying you're a miracle worker.
[00:27:47] Yeah.
[00:27:48] I'm not saying you can, you can take people that don't have any skills and instantly
[00:27:53] through your leadership term them into incredible performers.
[00:27:57] No, that's not going to happen, but guess what?
[00:28:00] As a leader, you've got to bring people into your team that are good.
[00:28:02] You do train the people that you do have up to the best of their abilities and the people
[00:28:06] that can't perform the way they need to perform.
[00:28:08] You get rid of them.
[00:28:09] Yeah.
[00:28:10] That's it.
[00:28:12] No real exceptions.
[00:28:15] Other than, yeah, you can have a good team with bad leaders.
[00:28:18] Yeah, I only guess it's a good leader somewhere in there.
[00:28:21] The exceptions thing, I think it's healthy in my opinion.
[00:28:25] No, it's good for this and most of the things where if I or we start thinking that
[00:28:31] we're the exception, so we don't have to put in like, I don't know, like the work or
[00:28:36] whatever, not necessarily work, but the, you know, like, okay, we'll take this.
[00:28:40] No bad teams, don't leave bad leaders.
[00:28:42] But, you know, if I say, I might be the exception to this because my team is so bad.
[00:28:46] It's kind of like, you're going to do a little cop out there.
[00:28:49] Kind of thing.
[00:28:50] 100% of it.
[00:28:51] If you don't take ownership of what's going on, then you're not going to perform well.
[00:28:56] If you just blame your genetics, then that means, okay, well, I'm not going to get any kind
[00:29:01] of shape whatsoever.
[00:29:02] Then guess what, guess what, kind of shape your being.
[00:29:05] Junk.
[00:29:06] Substant.
[00:29:07] Substandard.
[00:29:08] Thanks, Wes.
[00:29:09] Junk.
[00:29:10] Leadership is knowing when to cut someone loose, that can't
[00:29:16] perform in a team.
[00:29:18] But, do you have any techniques for trying to help people who lack common sense get better
[00:29:24] in the name of just trying to make the world a better place?
[00:29:27] Obviously without being a jerk.
[00:29:30] My, my common answer in situations like this and you've heard it before is to pick, put them
[00:29:35] in charge or something, right?
[00:29:36] You got someone that's, that doesn't have a lot of common sense.
[00:29:40] Pick something that's maybe just outside their level of competency and put them in charge
[00:29:44] of it.
[00:29:45] So, something that doesn't put too much at risk.
[00:29:50] So, you can give them some room to make some decisions.
[00:29:52] And some mistakes without doing too much damage.
[00:29:55] And then you coach them, you monitor them and you coach them.
[00:30:03] And you coach them not just on what decision to make, but more important how to make that
[00:30:12] decision.
[00:30:13] If you think about what common sense is, if you break it down, if you break down what
[00:30:18] common sense is, common sense is like a blanket term that we don't really relate it to
[00:30:22] what it really means.
[00:30:24] But it's a blanket term that covers a person's sort of natural ability to make good decisions.
[00:30:32] That's what common sense essentially is, right?
[00:30:35] Because you don't look at someone, someone makes a bad decision.
[00:30:38] And you say that person has no common sense.
[00:30:40] Someone makes a good decision or continually makes good decisions.
[00:30:42] You go, the person's got a lot of common sense.
[00:30:45] So what we're really talking about is there ability to make decisions.
[00:30:51] So when you're trying to help someone increase their common sense, what you're really trying
[00:30:56] to do is improve their decision making process.
[00:30:59] So some things to look at when it comes to improving your decision making process, number
[00:31:04] one learn how to step back and detach.
[00:31:07] That's number one.
[00:31:09] You can't make good decisions when you're all embroiled in the gunfight.
[00:31:15] Learn how to analyze and assess and create different courses of action.
[00:31:23] Some people only see you one way.
[00:31:25] And when you only see one way and you can't detach, you never open up your mind to see
[00:31:29] that there could possibly be other ways.
[00:31:33] You have to, in order to have good common sense, slash, make good decisions.
[00:31:38] You have to understand how to look at and understand what the consequences of your actions
[00:31:48] are going to be.
[00:31:50] And that includes second and third order effects.
[00:31:52] Because a lot of times when people, you know, that guy has no common sense because they
[00:31:55] do something that to them makes sense at that moment.
[00:31:57] They don't understand what the consequences are.
[00:31:58] They don't understand the second or third order effects.
[00:32:01] And so it ends up being a bad decision.
[00:32:02] And we just throw up like, oh, the guy got no common sense.
[00:32:07] To make a good decision, you have to know how to mitigate risk.
[00:32:11] That's also very important to make a good decision.
[00:32:13] You have to understand what your assets are and what kind of resources you have.
[00:32:18] Even on a simple decision.
[00:32:21] Even on a quote common sense decision, you have to understand what you have at hand to help
[00:32:27] you execute whatever decision you make.
[00:32:30] You have to, this is a big one.
[00:32:31] You have to learn if you want to make good decisions.
[00:32:35] You have to understand that you're going to make some assumptions.
[00:32:40] And you have to analyze those assumptions and see which ones make sense to make and which
[00:32:45] ones are not sensible to make.
[00:32:48] Because obviously, and there's that old, there's that old saying about assumptions don't
[00:32:53] assume because it makes an ass out of you and me.
[00:32:55] That's a pretty realistic saying.
[00:32:58] It's a pretty good saying to keep in the back of your mind.
[00:33:00] If you make assumptions on things, however, that being said, if you make no assumptions
[00:33:06] well, then you can never move forward on most things because you've got to assume like,
[00:33:09] okay, most of the time this is probably what's going to happen and you can go forward
[00:33:12] with that.
[00:33:13] So the list goes on and on and what you need to do is as you give these people a little
[00:33:23] bit of room and a little bit of responsibility and a little bit of decision making in
[00:33:29] their life.
[00:33:30] With your kids, right?
[00:33:31] You give your kids the opportunity to make a decision.
[00:33:34] And if they make a bad decision and all you do is smack them without explaining to them
[00:33:41] the process, the decision making process, which is where that decision came from, then
[00:33:47] they're never going to gain more common sense.
[00:33:50] And you know, when you think about the list, I think detachment is actually the most
[00:33:54] important thing.
[00:33:56] And I think what happens, the people that don't have common sense, they actually don't
[00:34:02] have the ability at that time because they haven't been trained properly to see things
[00:34:07] from an outside perspective.
[00:34:09] Yeah.
[00:34:10] Have you ever noticed when somebody does something that's completely lack of common sense,
[00:34:15] when you raise the point to them, they're always kind of like a staunched that they don't
[00:34:21] even get why what they did was dumb.
[00:34:26] They just think that that's just how it was going to be.
[00:34:30] And they don't even understand that what they did was dumb.
[00:34:32] And sometimes you have to actually explain to people that they're so embedded in their
[00:34:37] decision-making process, they can't see it from an external perspective.
[00:34:40] So they don't even understand how dumb their decision was.
[00:34:44] If you can get them some level of detachment, then you're moving them in the right direction.
[00:34:50] You're improving their common sense.
[00:34:52] And yes, when you're doing that to your credit, you're actually making the world a better
[00:34:57] place.
[00:34:59] Yeah.
[00:35:00] And they get, and you kind of said this anyway, but you give them experience, like when
[00:35:04] you let them make for your decision to get, because really that's really what common
[00:35:08] sense is, right, if you have or don't have common sense, it's like, if you have a lot of
[00:35:12] experience, common sense is like, you're a little bit more in touch with it than someone
[00:35:16] with very little experience.
[00:35:17] So let's say, I mean, it's culturally, we'll say.
[00:35:20] So in Hawaii, everyone takes out their shoes when they go in the house.
[00:35:22] This is just how.
[00:35:24] And in the mainland, it's not like that.
[00:35:26] So if I've never been a Hawaii, I've no experience in Hawaii, but in the, I live in the
[00:35:31] mainland the whole time.
[00:35:32] But I don't have any access to the whole Hawaii culture, whatever.
[00:35:35] I've got a Hawaii.
[00:35:36] I'm going to leave my shoes on.
[00:35:38] It's like common sense, man.
[00:35:40] You take off your shoes if you've only lived in Hawaii the whole time, right?
[00:35:44] No.
[00:35:45] It's you could argue, hey, all you got to do is look around and see, but I don't, I'm
[00:35:51] not trained to look around to see what everyone's wearing and not wearing.
[00:35:54] You know, like, well, I'm weird.
[00:35:56] You ever notice, I would say once a month at the gym, someone walks on the mat with
[00:36:01] shoes on, like, just not even when it's, they're really stepping over a big pile or
[00:36:08] line of shoes of flip flops, it's just to get on the mat.
[00:36:12] And there's no factor.
[00:36:13] They're stepping over with their street shoes on.
[00:36:15] Yeah, exactly.
[00:36:16] That's the exact, the exact, the exact, the common sense would tell you, hey, it looks
[00:36:21] like every single person.
[00:36:22] There's 28 people on the mat, none of them are wearing shoes and I'm stepping over.
[00:36:26] You think, but that's a person that does an F common sense.
[00:36:28] Right.
[00:36:29] So what you have to do with a person like that, when you see someone that does that kind
[00:36:32] of thing, you know, let's say your kid did that.
[00:36:34] You'd say, hey, instead of just going, hey, kick off your shoes.
[00:36:37] You know, you go, hey, before you do something, look around at the environment.
[00:36:41] Take a look around.
[00:36:42] What do you see?
[00:36:43] All these people on the mat, none of them wearing shoes.
[00:36:46] And you look right in front of your feet and there's all these shoes off the mat, that
[00:36:50] probably indicates that you should take off your shoes.
[00:36:53] That should be a good decision.
[00:36:55] It should be, but now you're going to get another different type of experience.
[00:36:59] Like if you're in scenarios often where you were looking around and seeing what other
[00:37:04] people are doing and wearing, like, and all this stuff, if you're in constantly in situations
[00:37:09] like that, that will become more part of your common sense.
[00:37:12] Right.
[00:37:13] So it's like to say, I mean, there are plenty of people who in normal everyday life have
[00:37:19] normal common sense, like everyone else, who would wear shoes on the mat.
[00:37:23] They just simply would because they don't, hey, these guys are training.
[00:37:27] They're not going to wear shoes while they're training.
[00:37:29] So they took off the shoes.
[00:37:30] I'm not training.
[00:37:31] I'm just going to go talk to this guy over here.
[00:37:32] Oh, my, I'm rolling with the shoes on the mat.
[00:37:34] Just like, oh, I've never been on.
[00:37:35] You know, I'm going to go in this house.
[00:37:37] They live here.
[00:37:38] They maybe he just got out of bed, maybe they just want to be comfortable because they got out
[00:37:41] of work.
[00:37:42] Well, I don't, it doesn't go through the thought process of my common sense.
[00:37:45] My common sense is if I don't have to take off my shoes for something specific, I'm not
[00:37:50] going to do it.
[00:37:51] That's just how that's just my common experience.
[00:37:54] You know, so the common sense is kind of a situational thing.
[00:37:57] You know, it's not just couldn't drive.
[00:37:58] He has common sense versus not.
[00:38:00] So you put them in more experience that's common to the group.
[00:38:04] Oh, man, it's common sense goes up.
[00:38:07] Fair enough.
[00:38:08] I think so.
[00:38:09] I think so.
[00:38:11] Next question.
[00:38:12] I've been told by employees that I'm cold and non-engaging.
[00:38:17] My peers say I charge hell with a bucket of water and sometimes get to stop or sometimes
[00:38:23] forget to stop and feel the bucket in military training.
[00:38:26] We all went through the mental part and in battle, someone engaged properly.
[00:38:32] I treat my business the same way as I fought.
[00:38:35] In a firefight, my mind was clear, focused on the objective, and being aggressive always.
[00:38:40] Why should my business be any different?
[00:38:43] Delegate and don't quit until you accomplish the goal.
[00:38:46] Isn't this wrong?
[00:38:51] So let's start with cold and non-engaging.
[00:38:57] I get that people have different levels of emotional responsiveness.
[00:39:01] I get that.
[00:39:02] I'm probably a little bit on the low end of that in terms of being super emotionally
[00:39:08] responsive.
[00:39:11] I don't really get mad.
[00:39:14] I don't usually get frustrated.
[00:39:19] But at the same time, as a leader, you have to show some emotion.
[00:39:23] And if you show no emotion at all, then you're on a person, you're a robot.
[00:39:28] And robots don't really connect with people.
[00:39:31] And so you don't form a new relationships, and if you don't form good relationships,
[00:39:39] you're not going to have a good leadership connection with your team.
[00:39:45] That's the way it is.
[00:39:46] So you've got to show some emotions.
[00:39:49] You don't need to get all wild.
[00:39:52] And in fact, as a leader, your emotions should be controlled.
[00:39:56] If a normal person's emotions go from one to ten, a leader should be like, you know,
[00:40:03] at three, maybe four, and they shouldn't go beyond that.
[00:40:06] And I've talked about this before.
[00:40:07] If my team's getting all emotional and I'm just all cold, I actually disconnect from
[00:40:13] my team.
[00:40:14] And obviously they're looking at me like, I'm not one of them.
[00:40:16] That's a bad thing.
[00:40:17] Yeah, it doesn't even care.
[00:40:19] Same thing with your spouse.
[00:40:20] If you're spouse is all mad about something and you're like, hey, just calm down.
[00:40:25] Look at that's going to be a problem.
[00:40:27] You have to give them some emotions back.
[00:40:30] So show some emotions as a leader.
[00:40:34] You might even have to, you know, many factions are just a little bit to let them see
[00:40:41] that you care.
[00:40:42] You know, you got to do that with your kids sometimes, you know, because like, your
[00:40:45] kid is doing something that you know they shouldn't be doing, but it's kind of funny.
[00:40:49] And it's hard to get mad at.
[00:40:50] But you realize if you don't get mad and this behavior escalates, then that's
[00:40:55] problematic.
[00:40:56] Like, are you kind of fired up when your kid does something kinds up on a wall and
[00:41:00] is balancing, you know, eight feet in the air?
[00:41:02] Well, if they fall and crack their head, that's going to be a problem.
[00:41:04] At the same time, you think it's kind of cool.
[00:41:07] But you have to reinforce safety.
[00:41:11] And so you've got to be like a little bit angry at him.
[00:41:14] Right?
[00:41:15] Hey, hey, I told you not to do it.
[00:41:17] Right?
[00:41:18] Kid running in the row or whatever, you've got to reinforce stuff.
[00:41:20] So it's a, you, you actually have to show some level of emotions.
[00:41:25] Now, as far as the other part of the question is aggression and never quitting, is that
[00:41:34] wrong?
[00:41:35] Well, you know, quite frankly, yes.
[00:41:40] Yes, it can be very wrong.
[00:41:46] Of course, much of what the statement is, it makes sense.
[00:41:52] Right?
[00:41:53] Be aggressive.
[00:41:54] Don't quit.
[00:41:55] Focus on the objective.
[00:41:56] Charge into hell with vengeance.
[00:41:57] Right?
[00:41:58] We all like to hear that.
[00:41:59] Right?
[00:42:00] That reflects a great attitude.
[00:42:01] I think everyone would expect me and they would actually hear me say those things.
[00:42:06] The same exact things I want to be aggressive were never going to quit.
[00:42:08] We're going to take that objective no matter what.
[00:42:10] You would care me say that.
[00:42:15] But at the same time, we have to remember that there are dichotomies in leadership.
[00:42:19] Right?
[00:42:20] And taking what is a normally, what is normally a good attitude to an absolute extreme without
[00:42:26] any balance at all, that will turn into a problem.
[00:42:31] So it sounds like this individual is aggressive, which is a very positive trait.
[00:42:36] But it sounds like perhaps there are times when this individual might be too aggressive.
[00:42:41] Now most people don't want to hear that.
[00:42:45] Then they don't think they're going to hear that for me.
[00:42:47] You almost think when somebody asks me a question like this, you almost think in their
[00:42:51] back of their mind they're going, you know what, Jock was going to tell me and I'm going
[00:42:54] to go even harder.
[00:42:56] Right?
[00:42:57] Should be very unfortunate from Jocko about how being aggressive is awesome.
[00:43:01] But here's the reality.
[00:43:03] And especially if you throw like the firefight thing, like Jocko's definitely going to
[00:43:06] be on board with me now.
[00:43:08] But guess what?
[00:43:09] If you're in a firefight and the enemy isn't an elevated bunker to position across
[00:43:14] open ground and you just keep attacking it with your platoon, what's going to happen?
[00:43:21] I'll tell you what's going to happen.
[00:43:22] You're all going to die.
[00:43:24] That's what's going to happen.
[00:43:26] So you're all fired up.
[00:43:28] You're all aggressive.
[00:43:29] You're never going to quit and you're all going to die.
[00:43:31] Does that help us?
[00:43:32] Does that help us achieve our overall strategic objective?
[00:43:36] The answer is no.
[00:43:38] If you pull back for a minute, if you detach from a moment mentally and possibly physically
[00:43:44] as well, you will likely see that there's a better approach.
[00:43:48] Oh, how about we call for fire support?
[00:43:52] How would we put down some cover, lay down some suppressive iron, move around to the flank
[00:43:56] of the bunker position?
[00:43:57] There's a bunch of different ways that you can get this done in a much more survivable way.
[00:44:06] The fact is, if you're always aggressive and your mindset is I'm not going to quit, then
[00:44:13] you won't see those other solutions.
[00:44:14] And yes, that is problematic.
[00:44:16] Yes, that is wrong.
[00:44:17] And it's the same thing in dealing with people.
[00:44:21] If people don't respond to your leadership and your reaction that is just to get more and
[00:44:29] more aggressive with them, they aren't likely to come around.
[00:44:33] In fact, they're likely to either become hostile towards you because you're being aggressive
[00:44:38] towards them or they break, which each one of those is problematic bad results.
[00:44:47] Either my team becomes hostile towards me or I break my team either way, it's bad.
[00:44:52] So being aggressive all the time, no, not good.
[00:44:57] And same thing, same thing could be like, I default to aggressive, right?
[00:45:01] I literally teach people to be that way.
[00:45:04] But if you go too far with it, you'll end up in a bad situation, same thing with
[00:45:09] don't quit, right?
[00:45:10] Of course, of course don't quit, great attitude, my attitude is I'm never going to quit.
[00:45:16] I want everyone on my team to have that attitude.
[00:45:18] I have that attitude.
[00:45:20] That's like the saying in the SEAL teams don't quit, never quit.
[00:45:28] You have to be very, very careful that you don't confuse, don't quit with, don't try any
[00:45:38] other solutions or don't deviate from the original plan no matter what.
[00:45:43] Hey, I'm not quitting.
[00:45:44] I'm just going to keep doing the same thing over and over again.
[00:45:46] I'm going to keep going forward with the same plan.
[00:45:48] The plan isn't working.
[00:45:49] Okay, but I'm not a quit or I'm just going to keep doing the same plan.
[00:45:52] That's not good.
[00:45:54] That's not good.
[00:45:56] Don't quit means you don't give up.
[00:45:58] It actually don't quit actually means try different solutions if one of them isn't working.
[00:46:04] Don't quit means keep an open mind.
[00:46:08] Don't quit means you don't quit thinking.
[00:46:12] Don't quit thinking and then don't quit means you continue to keep thinking and keep addressing
[00:46:20] a problem and keep attacking the problem until you do accomplish the mission.
[00:46:23] You do that through multiple different avenues, not the same avenue the whole time.
[00:46:32] That's how you lead.
[00:46:34] That's how you get aggressive.
[00:46:35] That's how you actually never quit and by the way, that is how you win.
[00:46:42] Yeah, that morale thing.
[00:46:47] Remember, you've talked about morale.
[00:46:49] Actually, where, you know, like some,
[00:46:53] bosses that we like, hey, I'm not here to make you feel good or I'm not here to make friends
[00:46:59] or whatever.
[00:47:02] And sometimes like behavior or whatever things like that can lead to behavior that makes
[00:47:07] people not want to work for you or not feel good about the job.
[00:47:11] I'm not happy about like what's the use of making someone do the job if they don't feel
[00:47:15] good about doing it.
[00:47:16] You know, like the morale is down.
[00:47:18] And you still think the normal morale, like people need to just toughen up, you know, like
[00:47:22] freaking the reality.
[00:47:23] You don't just not do something just because you're not feeling good that day kind of
[00:47:27] kind of thing.
[00:47:28] I thought that too.
[00:47:29] But man, if you have a group of people who they all don't want to do it, they're
[00:47:33] not going to do it.
[00:47:34] It's problem.
[00:47:35] At the end of the day, they're going to not do it.
[00:47:37] Well, they might do that one thing that day.
[00:47:39] Yeah, I mean, over time, you're going to break down for sure.
[00:47:41] Yeah.
[00:47:42] You're not leading them in the right direction.
[00:47:44] Yeah.
[00:47:45] You can look forcing people to do things when you're in a position of authority.
[00:47:49] You can do that.
[00:47:51] That works.
[00:47:52] That's functional.
[00:47:53] It'll work a little bit.
[00:47:55] But over time, will you end up with a team that really will perform well and will continue
[00:47:59] to drive when they hit obstacles?
[00:48:01] No, you won't.
[00:48:02] You'll end up with a team that's doing what they're being told to do out of fear.
[00:48:08] And that team is going to get beat by the team that is doing it because they want to do it.
[00:48:14] Yeah.
[00:48:15] Yeah.
[00:48:16] So if it's like, you know, the guy who, you know, they, I don't think that my boss cares
[00:48:23] about me.
[00:48:24] In fact, I think that he kind of doesn't care about me.
[00:48:26] That's what I think.
[00:48:27] You're not going to do a lot of extra effort to support your boss.
[00:48:31] I'm sure.
[00:48:32] I don't want to.
[00:48:33] Next question, Jockel.
[00:48:34] Do you talk about building relationships a lot at work, even when people whom you might
[00:48:40] not like, even with people whom you don't like.
[00:48:44] Have you always been this way or did you also feel difficult?
[00:48:50] Also feel difficult.
[00:48:51] Difficulty in wanting to build relationships with those people.
[00:48:55] If the latter, what are the things that help you to actually want to build relationships
[00:49:00] with them?
[00:49:01] Thanks.
[00:49:02] So when I was a young seal, I was pretty typical young seal, pretty typical young man,
[00:49:13] meaning I thought I was invincible.
[00:49:16] I thought I could beat everyone in a fight because I didn't know Jockel, so you just
[00:49:20] think you're just going to win, but that you're wrong.
[00:49:23] I thought I knew everything.
[00:49:24] Of course.
[00:49:27] And I thought I was smarter than everyone else.
[00:49:29] Kind of typical.
[00:49:32] Sometimes I would rub people the wrong way.
[00:49:35] The people that I would rub the wrong way were especially people that I thought were not
[00:49:40] squared away in the chain of command.
[00:49:42] So if you were in my boss and I didn't think you were squared away, I was going to
[00:49:46] rub you the wrong way because I was going to be slightly offensive.
[00:49:51] As a matter of fact, I got an evaluation.
[00:49:53] It's one of the first evaluations that I got when I got to a seal team.
[00:49:56] And back in the day, yeah, you'd get your rated 4.0 as the highest you could get and
[00:50:03] it would go all the way down to whatever, like one.
[00:50:06] But at this time, basically everyone got 4L and everything.
[00:50:10] And you'd have to mess up.
[00:50:13] You'd have to mess up.
[00:50:14] You'd have to mess up.
[00:50:15] So I got all 4Ls and I got a 3.8, which was like a major dig.
[00:50:25] And the dig was in relation.
[00:50:29] I don't know what the word was, but when I got debriefed on it, what the guy that gave
[00:50:34] me the 3.8, what he told me, which I actually was proud of.
[00:50:40] Because that's how stupid I was.
[00:50:42] He's like, you're, you're too hostile with people that aren't squared away.
[00:50:47] That's literally what he told me.
[00:50:49] And I was all like, whatever, you're damn right.
[00:50:52] I'm hostile towards people that aren't squared away.
[00:50:55] I'm going to go to war.
[00:50:57] Right.
[00:50:58] Just an idiot.
[00:50:59] That's what the situation was.
[00:51:01] And you know, it made me mad if a leader was weak and I would form these antagonistic
[00:51:08] relationships with leaders if I thought that they were weak.
[00:51:13] And one of these bosses eventually that I thought I was better than, right.
[00:51:19] I thought I was smarter than him, right.
[00:51:24] I thought that he was an idiot.
[00:51:28] I should have his job, right.
[00:51:30] How often do you think that, right?
[00:51:32] I should have that guy's job on bed.
[00:51:33] I'm smarter than that.
[00:51:35] And the more I showed this attitude, the worse a relationship got and the less he listened
[00:51:41] to me and the less influence I had over how he did things.
[00:51:47] And therefore, the worse we did and the worse our ability to perform got because he was just
[00:51:56] doing things the way he thought without any good input from anyone below him in the chain
[00:52:01] of command.
[00:52:03] All because I had formed this antagonistic relationship with him, which was bad.
[00:52:07] Because I need not listening to me.
[00:52:09] I think one day, one day I said to myself, if I'm so smart, if I'm such a smart guy, why am I
[00:52:23] losing?
[00:52:26] Why am I losing?
[00:52:29] If I'm so smart, if I am so smart, why can I get this guy to do
[00:52:33] what I want him to do?
[00:52:36] Even though he's my boss, doesn't matter.
[00:52:38] If I'm so smart, I'm so much smarter than him.
[00:52:41] Why can't I get him to do what I want him to do?
[00:52:46] If I'm so smart, how come I can't have more influence over the way we operate?
[00:52:51] If I'm so smart and he's so dumb.
[00:52:55] And that's what I realized.
[00:52:57] That's what I had an awakening, an awakening that instead of blaming
[00:53:03] him for being stupid, I was the one who was being stupid.
[00:53:11] I had lost the ability to influence my boss because I was being stupid and because
[00:53:18] of my ego.
[00:53:20] I literally thought I deserved his job.
[00:53:22] I thought pretty much anyone, anyone that's not a job is job.
[00:53:29] And therefore, since I thought that, I undermined him.
[00:53:34] Instead of supporting him, instead of building a relationship with him, I undermined him.
[00:53:39] Now, once I got humble and I started to build a positive relationship with him instead of
[00:53:47] an antagonistic one, that started to change.
[00:53:53] Because then he started listening to me.
[00:53:55] He started to change some things and my influence over the whole situation became better
[00:54:01] because I now had a relationship with, despite the fact that I liked the guy, despite that
[00:54:06] fact, I built the relationship and the situation got better.
[00:54:10] I had more influence.
[00:54:13] And that became kind of my standard operating procedure.
[00:54:17] Was to build relationships with people.
[00:54:20] Even if I didn't like them to build relationships with people so that I could have more
[00:54:24] influence.
[00:54:25] Now, what does that sound like?
[00:54:28] That sounds like I'm kind of this manipulative to face superficial disingenuous guy.
[00:54:35] That's being devious and conniving.
[00:54:37] Not keeping it real.
[00:54:38] Not keeping it real, right?
[00:54:42] But the fact is, that is not true.
[00:54:44] That's not who I am.
[00:54:46] You want to know who I am?
[00:54:50] I'm a guy that's trying to accomplish the mission.
[00:54:53] That's what I am.
[00:54:54] A guy that is trying to accomplish the mission who is putting my own ego in check to build
[00:55:01] a relationship with someone that I don't like, that I don't respect.
[00:55:04] But what I'm trying to do is improve our operational capability.
[00:55:12] That's what's more important to me.
[00:55:17] Trying to arrange the situation, build the relationship so that we do better not so that
[00:55:24] I get promoted.
[00:55:25] Not so that I'm getting some accolades, but so that we as a team do a better job.
[00:55:33] Put the little feelings aside because I want the team to win.
[00:55:41] So if you're having some trouble getting over your feelings and getting over your ego
[00:55:47] to build relationships for the good of their team, ask yourself the same question, I asked
[00:55:52] myself a long time ago, which is this, if I am so smart, why am I not winning?
[00:56:05] And if you answer that question honestly, then you'll put your ego in check, you'll
[00:56:08] go build the relationships that will make you and your team accomplish the mission and
[00:56:14] win.
[00:56:16] There you go.
[00:56:18] You know what it's funny is we think about like, why you wouldn't like someone, what
[00:56:29] causes you to not like someone, most of the time that's your ego anyways.
[00:56:34] Most of the time that's your ego anyways.
[00:56:37] So you know, you had that story of the, you know, you were consulting somebody.
[00:56:43] It was like a big CEO of the idea.
[00:56:45] Like a lacrosse guy, that story is probably the most common story.
[00:56:51] I mean, the way you handle it different.
[00:56:52] Yeah, but that's the scenario that you started with with us to our soul common men.
[00:56:55] We're, yeah, they rugby the wrong way because right off the bat ECM has some kind of
[00:56:59] competitive figure to you.
[00:57:01] Like, you know, some, you know, competing with in your own mind in whatever.
[00:57:06] And the feelings probably mutual out of the time, you know, so you guys don't like each other.
[00:57:09] You know, one of anything he says, you're, you know, you're already defensive, but it's
[00:57:13] weird man how you can, how that happened.
[00:57:15] Like that's happened in maybe four.
[00:57:17] Not as it wasn't as overt, but just like, you know, I don't like, I went because I, not only
[00:57:23] is he like, when you look at him or whatever, they're kind of competitive with you, but
[00:57:26] maybe they do something just this much different than you, you know, like a just different
[00:57:29] in philosophy or something like that.
[00:57:30] So I was like, oh, let me get in.
[00:57:32] So I got, and then they opened their mouth and say, one word, you know, it's real nice.
[00:57:35] You're like, oh, I love that guy.
[00:57:37] You know, just one little thing, just one little like, hey, I'm cool.
[00:57:39] You know, I like you kind of think.
[00:57:41] And it's like, oh, man.
[00:57:42] Yeah, when they say something humble to you, it disarms your ego and your all of a sudden
[00:57:46] your bros.
[00:57:47] Yeah, so weird.
[00:57:48] But if they don't, if they escalate the ego situation, which then it's very problematic.
[00:57:52] It happens all the time.
[00:57:53] Yeah, it's been a whole time.
[00:57:54] I mean, really, that's the natural course of things, because you do have to put on the
[00:57:57] brakes on your feelings and be okay.
[00:57:59] Let's make a different kind of decision and the automatic one.
[00:58:02] I got to switch to manual real quick.
[00:58:04] And then boom, but the bottom line is you're going to interact with all kinds of different
[00:58:07] people.
[00:58:08] Any kind of team whatsoever, which is most human beings interact with other human beings
[00:58:13] through their job, through their life, through, I mean, you could apply this to your family,
[00:58:16] too, right?
[00:58:17] There's someone in your family that you don't get along with.
[00:58:21] Well, what good does it do?
[00:58:23] Does it make your family unit better when you let those emotions play out and let your
[00:58:28] ego play out?
[00:58:29] No, it doesn't.
[00:58:30] You're better off.
[00:58:31] You'll get further.
[00:58:32] And you'll have a better, you'll have a better life in your family.
[00:58:37] If you put your ego in check and say, you know what, I'm just going to build a relationship
[00:58:41] with this person.
[00:58:42] It's going to make everything better in smoother.
[00:58:44] But it's like, man, if you, I feel like you can take the place of any marriage counselor
[00:58:50] by just saying that for real.
[00:58:52] Like, all you got to do is, and they got to do it.
[00:58:54] But all you got to do is ask, like, is this going to help the relationship with my wife or
[00:58:58] my family, whoever it is in your, is this going to help the relationship if I do this or
[00:59:02] don't do this or isn't going to hurt it?
[00:59:03] And that's it.
[00:59:04] That's a super general question.
[00:59:06] And whatever, but it's so cut and dry most of the time.
[00:59:08] Of course, it's that exception.
[00:59:09] But generally speaking, it's pretty cut and dry.
[00:59:11] I'm going to go, okay.
[00:59:12] And a lot of times, just like I said, it has to do with like your ego or your, you know,
[00:59:16] this, this sense of vengeance, little micro sense of vengeance because I can't believe she
[00:59:21] doesn't respect the fact that I took out the trash.
[00:59:25] You know, she asked me to take the trash all the time.
[00:59:27] Finally, when I do it, nothing, you know, like, tell it.
[00:59:30] It's just that.
[00:59:31] I was talking to the friend of mine and we were talking about, you know, I've talked
[00:59:36] about the mute knee that I had, you know, to the opatune.
[00:59:40] But we had a mute knee.
[00:59:41] We had a mute knee against our, our, paltune commander.
[00:59:44] We fired, he got fired and then the other guy that came in to take his place was like,
[00:59:48] the best guy.
[00:59:49] And I was talking to a guy that worked with him much later when he was a senior senior
[00:59:53] guy.
[00:59:55] And I was telling him, I was like, oh, when I talk on the podcast about the paltune commander,
[01:00:01] that was like the best, that's when I'm talking to he's like, no way.
[01:00:04] And this guy working with these senior guy.
[01:00:08] And he says, you know, when he, when I worked with him, he would take out the trash from
[01:00:12] the office every day.
[01:00:14] And I started laughing about that.
[01:00:17] That's right.
[01:00:18] And I'd be, look, and he was saying, like, oh, I look at him and be like, sir, you
[01:00:21] know, you don't need to do that.
[01:00:22] He's like, no, no, no, it's a good.
[01:00:23] You know, someone's got to take out the trash.
[01:00:24] I got it.
[01:00:25] This is a seat.
[01:00:26] Why that shouldn't have been taking out trash for 25 years.
[01:00:31] Taking out the trash.
[01:00:32] What was he picking up, brass?
[01:00:33] He's picking up brass.
[01:00:34] Taking out trash.
[01:00:35] You know, that's, that's being humble.
[01:00:39] Yeah.
[01:00:40] Being humble goes a long way.
[01:00:42] Yeah.
[01:00:43] Next year.
[01:00:44] We got time for one more.
[01:00:46] Because I got stuffed.
[01:00:48] Sure.
[01:00:49] Hi, Jockel.
[01:00:50] I'm a veteran in graduate school.
[01:00:55] My mother passed away in April, and I took a few weeks off.
[01:00:58] While that was helpful, I'm struggling, returning to work.
[01:01:02] My peers are younger and inexperienced.
[01:01:04] I'm the oldest in the cohort.
[01:01:06] And probably the first vet to come to this grad program.
[01:01:10] I've already had some uphill battles.
[01:01:12] And up to this point, I truly believe I was worthy of my own suffering.
[01:01:16] Now, though, after solving on a plane while listening to episode 122, I don't feel
[01:01:22] as worthy.
[01:01:23] I wasn't there for my mother when she died.
[01:01:25] In fact, I cut her out due to her drinking, which is what killed her.
[01:01:30] I've lost people close to me in the past and in the service, but this is different.
[01:01:36] I know one thing, I'm a fighter.
[01:01:37] I've had to fight all my life to get where I am, but I'm feeling deflated.
[01:01:48] I mean, to start with, of course, you feel deflated.
[01:01:53] Because you lost your mom.
[01:01:57] That's normal.
[01:01:58] But what is not normal and what you have to fight against is staying deflated.
[01:02:07] So, I mean, listen, your mom has gone and you should certainly mourn that.
[01:02:15] You weren't by her side when she died.
[01:02:20] This is due to the fact that you had to cut her off and you had to cut her off because
[01:02:25] of her drinking.
[01:02:27] If you don't cut someone off when they're going down that path, you're only enabling
[01:02:31] them.
[01:02:32] And that is not the right thing to do.
[01:02:39] And of course, we want to be able to save everyone.
[01:02:47] That's absolutely.
[01:02:49] We want to be able to save everyone, especially our own family members.
[01:02:56] But the fact of the matter is that you just can't save everyone.
[01:03:04] No one can.
[01:03:07] No one can.
[01:03:10] Addiction is in many cases stronger than us.
[01:03:18] Even anything stronger than love.
[01:03:23] Believe it or not, stronger than life itself sometimes.
[01:03:27] That's how strong addiction is.
[01:03:33] And you cannot and are not expected to be able to defeat that.
[01:03:46] So you did what you could.
[01:03:53] And in the end, the battle was lost not because of you but because of addiction.
[01:04:05] And it is hard to face that kind of loss.
[01:04:17] But now, how are you going to look at this?
[01:04:22] How are you going to deal with this?
[01:04:28] I look at it like this.
[01:04:30] Your mother?
[01:04:34] Your mother gave you a gift, a precious gift.
[01:04:42] She gave you the gift of knowledge.
[01:04:47] That knowledge allows you to see how destructive that force of addiction can be.
[01:04:54] You saw it, destroy her.
[01:05:00] You saw that addiction, destroy her because she showed it to you.
[01:05:04] That was her last gift to you.
[01:05:09] She's actually given you life twice once at birth and once at her death.
[01:05:18] She's actually shown you how to live by showing you how not to live.
[01:05:26] So thank your mother for that.
[01:05:40] Literally, thank her.
[01:05:41] Literally go to her grave side and get down on your knees and say thank you to her.
[01:05:54] And then tell her that you won't let her down.
[01:05:59] And then tell her that you will learn from her lesson.
[01:06:07] And then tell her that you will go on to live an incredible life.
[01:06:16] A life that she would be proud of, a life that she didn't have.
[01:06:22] But a life that she is making sure you can have.
[01:06:35] Now you said that you're a fighter.
[01:06:39] And that's one thing you know is that you're a fighter.
[01:06:42] Well now get out there.
[01:06:48] And you know that question and kind of thinking about the answer to that question.
[01:07:00] That got me thinking about an article that I read about Anthony Bourdain.
[01:07:06] And Anthony Bourdain, obviously he was about a successful as anyone could be.
[01:07:15] I mean he was a successful guy in so many aspects and yet he killed himself.
[01:07:26] And I didn't know him personally.
[01:07:29] But you know he knew people that I know, he was friends with Joe Rogan.
[01:07:36] He was friends with Harley Flan again.
[01:07:38] He was friends with guys that, guys that look good guys.
[01:07:47] And so in that way I kind of felt like I knew what kind of a guy was at least.
[01:07:56] And even from the outside, even without having any connections to him at all, he was a kind
[01:08:02] of guy that had just about everything that that most people would want.
[01:08:11] And even still I mean obviously that wasn't enough.
[01:08:17] Well in the article that I read there was a quote from Anthony Bourdain's books and the
[01:08:27] book was called A Cooks Tour.
[01:08:32] He said in this book, I wanted adventures.
[01:08:37] I wanted to go up the non-river to the heart of darkness in Cambodia.
[01:08:44] I wanted to ride out into a desert on camelback, sand and dunes in every direction.
[01:08:52] Eat whole roasted lamb with my fingers.
[01:08:57] I wanted to kick snow off my boots in a mafia nightclub in Russia.
[01:09:02] I wanted to play with automatic weapons in Panam Pen.
[01:09:06] Recap for the past in a small oyster village in France.
[01:09:12] Step into a CD, neon lit, pukarilla in rural Mexico.
[01:09:19] I wanted to run road blocks in the middle of the night, blowing past Angry Malaysia with
[01:09:24] a handful of hurled marble packs.
[01:09:31] Experience fear, excitement, wonder.
[01:09:34] I wanted kicks.
[01:09:37] The kind of melodramatic thrills and chills I'd yearn for since childhood.
[01:09:45] The kind of adventure I'd found as a little boy in the pages of my 10-10 comic books.
[01:09:53] I wanted to see the world and I wanted the world to be just like the movies.
[01:10:05] That's what Anthony Bourdain said, just like the movies.
[01:10:17] You know what to me, the world is not like the movies.
[01:10:26] The movies aren't real.
[01:10:28] They don't exist.
[01:10:33] But you do.
[01:10:37] And life, this life is better than any movie there is.
[01:10:44] Is there supposed to provoke emotion?
[01:10:47] Do you supposed to make you feel something?
[01:10:52] But I have a better idea.
[01:10:54] Go out into the world and actually feel it.
[01:11:01] Go feel joy and love and triumph and rapture and ecstasy and glory.
[01:11:10] You'll feel those things.
[01:11:18] And you know with those feelings, there will be other feelings as well.
[01:11:24] There will be sorrow and pain and sadness and desolation and suffering.
[01:11:33] There will be all those feelings too.
[01:11:40] But you know what?
[01:11:46] That's okay.
[01:11:50] That's okay.
[01:11:51] Take both sides.
[01:11:53] Feel all that.
[01:11:54] That's what life is.
[01:11:56] Those feelings, those emotions, those highs and those lows.
[01:12:03] Those are life.
[01:12:10] And those emotions and those feelings are better than any movie because they are real.
[01:12:22] So make your own comic book.
[01:12:28] Make your life your own movie.
[01:12:31] Actually make it better than a movie.
[01:12:35] Not better because it's more adventurous or more romantic or more melodramatic.
[01:12:44] Make it better because it's real.
[01:12:52] It's real so it is better.
[01:12:55] And you know what, real comes with some downsides.
[01:13:02] Real comes with some darkness.
[01:13:13] But that's okay.
[01:13:18] It's okay because when you know the darkness, the light becomes even brighter.
[01:13:24] So go out there, move toward the light, move toward the light and live.
[01:13:46] And I think that's all I've got for tonight.
[01:14:00] So echo, let's talk to people a little bit about how to support this podcast and at
[01:14:12] the same time move themselves a little further away from the darkness and a little bit closer
[01:14:19] to the light.
[01:14:22] Because we make the podcast so everyone can learn and if you want to support the podcast,
[01:14:30] there are some really good ways to do it.
[01:14:33] And that's the goal.
[01:14:37] Podcasting you're supporting yourself at the same time.
[01:14:42] We got a big go hand in hand, a 300,000 percent.
[01:14:47] Not possible but what they were like.
[01:14:48] Yeah that's what I said.
[01:14:49] Can you agree one thing in a highly agree the 110 percent?
[01:14:52] I agree with you but I think I feel 10 percent even more strong than what you just
[01:14:57] said.
[01:14:58] Technically that could be a bad just thing.
[01:15:02] I mean yes so we'll start with Origin, Origin USA in Maine, Farmington Maine to be exact,
[01:15:10] American made products.
[01:15:11] What do we got?
[01:15:12] Okay, guise that's really the flagship.
[01:15:15] I like the word flagship but the flagship product is the guise.
[01:15:21] Made for Gigi to specifically for Gigi to in America.
[01:15:26] So made for specifically to Gigi but usable for many different activities.
[01:15:34] Like making a suit?
[01:15:36] Rashcards.
[01:15:37] Oh yeah.
[01:15:38] Okay, if you say guise it's like flagship right which I agree with.
[01:15:40] They also have rashcards.
[01:15:42] Other stuff.
[01:15:43] Yeah.
[01:15:44] Compression gear.
[01:15:45] Compression gear.
[01:15:46] Spats if you will.
[01:15:48] Yeah, for sure.
[01:15:49] But the guise aren't just like guise though.
[01:15:52] You can see them saying they're not just a general guise that guise made in America.
[01:15:56] By the way, for Gigi to specifically.
[01:16:00] When you move in Gigi to the different than moving in, I don't know whatever else you might
[01:16:04] wear guise.
[01:16:05] That tennis.
[01:16:07] Whatever, you were saying you were going to make a suit with the dragon.
[01:16:10] Yeah, that is kind of crazy.
[01:16:11] I actually have an idea of something to make with the dragon weave.
[01:16:15] I'm going to talk to Pete about.
[01:16:17] All right, what is it, let me stick to reveal.
[01:16:20] Believe it or not, boots.
[01:16:23] Yeah.
[01:16:24] Okay, yeah.
[01:16:25] So they wouldn't be fooled right?
[01:16:26] No, no, they'd be very similar to the old school Vietnam jungle boots.
[01:16:31] But they'd have the dragon weave instead of canvas.
[01:16:34] They'd have dragon weave.
[01:16:36] And because which I think is the, literally the perfect material for the jungle, but old
[01:16:42] school jungle boots are part leather.
[01:16:44] They're like leather around the toe in the heel.
[01:16:47] Then they have canvas on the sides and I wore jungle, and I still wear jungle boots.
[01:16:52] I love jungle boots.
[01:16:53] So yeah.
[01:16:54] So I, but if we made, because the cotton canvas does stay wet longer, but if we use the
[01:17:02] dragon weave, it dries quicker because it's a blend.
[01:17:05] But cotton is also very comfortable to wear.
[01:17:09] It allows circulation.
[01:17:10] So anyways, that's a wild mull talk to Pete.
[01:17:13] We'll make it happen.
[01:17:14] So the, the shorts that I have, if anyone else can have is dragon weave.
[01:17:19] Right.
[01:17:20] That is okay.
[01:17:21] So let's talk to Pete about it.
[01:17:22] Let me make some more and we went to the thing that's holding the other thing.
[01:17:24] But here's, here's what I do remember if you, since you brought up boots.
[01:17:29] Where, okay, so those shorts, you know, I have kids.
[01:17:31] And with kids comes messes, you know, when we're there, spill some, I don't know, whatever.
[01:17:37] So stuff will land on those shorts.
[01:17:38] And you know, the kind of worst thing, I don't want to take off the shorts and go wash
[01:17:41] them like, let me just put some water.
[01:17:43] But then some of the messes is like, you can't just put water.
[01:17:46] It goes away.
[01:17:47] You got to scrub it.
[01:17:48] But if they're like normal shorts, I'm going to scrub it with like a brush and it's
[01:17:50] going to kind of mess up the shorts a little bit right there.
[01:17:52] You know, it'll make it like kind of friddle fray or something like that.
[01:17:56] Brad, now these ones, Brad, I'm scrubbing it with a steel wool thing to get the thing out.
[01:18:00] Brad, the thing is like new still, aside from like the cotton part feeds, right?
[01:18:04] You know how to blend, right?
[01:18:05] So the cotton ones will feed.
[01:18:07] So this is awesome.
[01:18:08] It's a little gray straight with black as Brad's dope incidental, dopeness improvement.
[01:18:15] Yeah.
[01:18:16] In the aesthetic look.
[01:18:17] There you go.
[01:18:18] That's a side note.
[01:18:19] But I'm saying it's tough with the use of them saying, so it kind of makes sense.
[01:18:22] Now, dragonweed boots, boom, you're in the jungle fishing, whatever else we're doing
[01:18:26] with them and they handle.
[01:18:27] Yeah.
[01:18:28] Yeah.
[01:18:29] I don't want to find it.
[01:18:30] Would you make it like on the inside?
[01:18:31] Would it be a, what do you call water?
[01:18:33] We're reset proof through whatever.
[01:18:34] That's the thing with jungle, but you don't want them waterproof.
[01:18:36] They're booting.
[01:18:37] They're really, really, you have little eyelets.
[01:18:39] Oh yeah.
[01:18:40] Little drains.
[01:18:41] So you want them highly breathable.
[01:18:43] Like not even breathable.
[01:18:45] Open.
[01:18:46] Yeah.
[01:18:47] There's holes.
[01:18:48] It's purposely put in there.
[01:18:49] So that's concept is real jujitsu ish, you know?
[01:18:52] Cause like on at first thought, you'd be like, hey, you're walking water.
[01:18:55] We need to fight that water.
[01:18:56] No, it's like, yeah, allow the water.
[01:18:58] You didn't allow the water out there.
[01:19:00] Yeah, man.
[01:19:01] That's good.
[01:19:02] See Brad, that's why you're advanced.
[01:19:03] See, you think about this can see.
[01:19:05] Speaking of being advanced and comfortable.
[01:19:08] Advanced comfort with the joggers and the sweats.
[01:19:11] It's my experience.
[01:19:12] Try for yourself.
[01:19:13] Many people actually, I saw a guy today, maybe yesterday, today.
[01:19:16] I forgot.
[01:19:17] But he got the hoodie, one of, origins hoodie, boom, seconded that exact notion.
[01:19:22] Most comfortable hoodie ever.
[01:19:23] He's ever had.
[01:19:24] That's a bold statement.
[01:19:25] And I could just seat tell from his profile picture that he knew about comfort.
[01:19:29] I don't know.
[01:19:30] It just, I just could feel it.
[01:19:32] Nonetheless, it happened.
[01:19:33] Factually.
[01:19:34] Also, we got some supplements up there on the origin.
[01:19:38] Main.com website.
[01:19:41] You can get some supplements.
[01:19:42] What kind of supplements, pal?
[01:19:44] Some good ones.
[01:19:45] Yep.
[01:19:46] So, joint warfare.
[01:19:48] Darwin, would we call that one a flagship supplement?
[01:19:51] You could call every time.
[01:19:52] I'm going to call that a flagship.
[01:19:53] Yeah, the flagship is good, man.
[01:19:55] By the way, someone said, someone said on social media.
[01:19:59] Go back to the old way you were doing this approach.
[01:20:02] Then, no way, he sounds clunky.
[01:20:05] He said, give it back to echo.
[01:20:07] He said, you know what I said?
[01:20:09] Couldn't take it anymore.
[01:20:10] He said, I'm going to be honest.
[01:20:13] I will accept the possibility, probability of you not being the only one that thought
[01:20:19] that.
[01:20:20] So, I'm going to go with it.
[01:20:22] You know, there was that one guy though.
[01:20:24] He was fired up.
[01:20:25] Enough to tweet me.
[01:20:26] And say, bra.
[01:20:28] Sounds clunky.
[01:20:29] Dang, I kind of appreciated it.
[01:20:30] You're so far.
[01:20:31] Really do another thing.
[01:20:32] We could have a separate podcast where you could just do so far.
[01:20:35] It's a whole lot.
[01:20:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can kind of choose.
[01:20:39] Choose your own support.
[01:20:41] Yeah, maybe.
[01:20:42] Nonetheless, for now, this is what we're doing.
[01:20:44] We're going with joint warfare.
[01:20:46] Joy warfare.
[01:20:47] Good for your joints.
[01:20:48] Or make a three is good for your joints.
[01:20:50] And that's in krill oil.
[01:20:51] So you got joint warfare, glucosiming, conjointing, and curcumint.
[01:20:54] That helps you bring by the way.
[01:20:56] As we find out.
[01:20:57] Additionally, then you got a joint.
[01:21:00] That's a lot of pressure.
[01:21:01] Yeah.
[01:21:02] Ronda Patrick, right?
[01:21:03] Yeah.
[01:21:04] It was like I read that two by the way.
[01:21:06] It's good.
[01:21:07] Then you got, okay, so you got joint warfare, boom.
[01:21:09] We close them in conjointing.
[01:21:10] That's for, I think, cardilegium, phamountmistic, and joints, all this stuff.
[01:21:14] Boom, curcumint for some brains and memory stuff, boom.
[01:21:16] That's joint warfare.
[01:21:17] Then you got jacos, super krill.
[01:21:19] Mm-hmm.
[01:21:20] That's for you joint.
[01:21:21] So make a threes.
[01:21:22] And that's also for other parts of your anatomy.
[01:21:24] Yeah.
[01:21:25] It will say your whole internal system.
[01:21:29] You may use your eyes.
[01:21:30] Eyeballs.
[01:21:31] Eyeballs.
[01:21:32] Eyeballs.
[01:21:33] Eyeballs.
[01:21:34] Organs.
[01:21:35] Can you crack open a krill oil capsule and put it directly into your eyes?
[01:21:37] Is that a good thing?
[01:21:38] Yeah.
[01:21:39] I'm assuming no.
[01:21:40] I'm not sure.
[01:21:42] Yeah.
[01:21:43] But yeah, let's not do that, I think.
[01:21:44] I've been on krill oil for so long.
[01:21:47] Yeah.
[01:21:48] People, like, I don't want to ever go off with it.
[01:21:51] Yeah, I think that's a good idea to never go off of it.
[01:21:55] The reason is because I had a guy many years ago that was a, this is when I was
[01:21:59] probably 35.
[01:22:03] I met a guy that was 53.
[01:22:06] I think.
[01:22:07] And he was jerked.
[01:22:09] And he was jacked, but he wasn't jacked like a big body builder juice up guy.
[01:22:15] Just jacked like totally athletic.
[01:22:17] And in really great shape.
[01:22:19] And I was like, hey man, what's the deal with, you know, and he's like, I take it all
[01:22:23] oil.
[01:22:24] That's, he's like, that's the secret.
[01:22:25] He was like tributing.
[01:22:26] Yeah.
[01:22:27] Yeah.
[01:22:28] And so, how he was a competitive power lifter at one time.
[01:22:31] So he had maintained and continued to work out.
[01:22:34] But he was basically saying that to me as if we already knew that.
[01:22:38] But we already know that you got a jacked deal.
[01:22:40] Like, we, that's a given.
[01:22:41] I just, because I was talking to him for a while.
[01:22:43] And we were talking about lifting or talking about this.
[01:22:45] And, and then finally, you know, I got to like, so what do you think it is?
[01:22:48] And he's like, I take it all oil.
[01:22:50] This was before, and I was like, okay.
[01:22:52] Sometimes when somebody tells you something, you're just like, you just look at the guy.
[01:22:56] And when they give that much weight to it, yeah.
[01:22:59] It's like, okay, we're going with that.
[01:23:01] Yeah.
[01:23:02] And what's cool is that's, that's, that's, I definitely, I definitely felt the difference
[01:23:07] in my joints.
[01:23:10] Yeah.
[01:23:11] I don't know about my eyeballs.
[01:23:12] Well, you know, although I don't see glasses at this point.
[01:23:15] Yeah, there it is, proof of what that's.
[01:23:16] That's, that's something.
[01:23:17] Yeah.
[01:23:18] It's not nothing.
[01:23:19] That's for sure.
[01:23:20] And the same way you, you, um, well, not in the same way.
[01:23:23] But slightly similar way you had the power lift your guy, talk about Krillale.
[01:23:27] My father-in-law, as I've mentioned before, told me about Krillale.
[01:23:31] But way better than fish oil.
[01:23:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:23:33] And you know, he's telling me, or, what was he jacked?
[01:23:35] He, here's the thing.
[01:23:36] He wasn't, isn't jacked.
[01:23:37] And here's part of the whole story, which kind of is going to kind of feed into your
[01:23:41] point.
[01:23:42] No, he is not jacked at all.
[01:23:44] In fact, medium go left by this guy.
[01:23:46] She didn't even be in the same gym with me.
[01:23:49] He should be in the, the gym, maybe he's going to hear this podcast.
[01:23:51] I don't care.
[01:23:52] Absolutely 100%.
[01:23:53] Sure.
[01:23:54] Not really doing a good job building that relationship with the family.
[01:23:57] At the end of the day, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, yo, you'll see the moral.
[01:24:00] And I think it, well, I think it will.
[01:24:02] Anyway, so no, not jacked the answer is no.
[01:24:05] He can swim forever, ever.
[01:24:07] In fact, he goes in Hawaii.
[01:24:09] Men Maui waters with the, you know, the web hands, you know, for swimming.
[01:24:13] Okay.
[01:24:14] Some body bodies, you know, they're just web spongers.
[01:24:16] Yeah, sure.
[01:24:17] He doesn't, he's not a sponge, but he's swimmer.
[01:24:20] So he'll just swim our boom, just swim it.
[01:24:23] Anyway, he'd always say, you know, krill oil, all this stuff.
[01:24:27] But yeah, he's not jacked.
[01:24:28] He doesn't lift like why he could use take krill oil.
[01:24:30] And you get your XYZ results cool.
[01:24:32] I don't want those XYZ results.
[01:24:35] Those results that you're essentially benefiting from apparently.
[01:24:38] I don't apply to my goals.
[01:24:39] I don't, I don't.
[01:24:40] Exactly.
[01:24:41] So I'm like, okay, cool, I get it.
[01:24:44] Health not.
[01:24:45] He's the health not.
[01:24:46] He's into health.
[01:24:47] That's a positive thing.
[01:24:48] There's, there is worse things to be and not about.
[01:24:50] I'll tell you that.
[01:24:51] Health is a good thing anyway.
[01:24:52] But it's a good thing.
[01:24:53] It's a little bit better to be health.
[01:24:54] But that's jacked.
[01:24:55] I'm not going to disagree.
[01:24:58] So, you know, for years, I'm like, cool, good.
[01:25:01] It's rather info.
[01:25:02] Yeah, then you come along and you're like, yeah, krill oil.
[01:25:05] Boom, next day, I'm on the krill oil.
[01:25:07] Literally next day.
[01:25:08] And so, of course, he's been saying it the whole time or whatever.
[01:25:12] But at the end of the day, he's right.
[01:25:15] He's absolutely right.
[01:25:16] He was right.
[01:25:16] Yeah.
[01:25:17] So the normal of the story is you could be right and not jacked.
[01:25:22] Yes, jacked.
[01:25:23] I got to kind of separate, you know, my, what he called, I got to detach.
[01:25:29] This is what I got to do.
[01:25:30] You know, true.
[01:25:31] Like, an older guy with the ability to do the things and at the health level, he's at,
[01:25:34] I do want for myself, regardless how much weight I can lift or can't lift.
[01:25:39] That's what I want.
[01:25:40] That's what I want.
[01:25:41] Yeah, yeah.
[01:25:42] Big time.
[01:25:43] And here's the thing, I didn't think indirectly as well.
[01:25:45] Because the better your joint feels special is you get older, but just in life, regardless
[01:25:49] how old you're, the better your joints are functioning, the more you're going to be
[01:25:52] able to lift or mounting climb or right bike or compete in baggling.
[01:26:00] Midden.
[01:26:01] Bad midden.
[01:26:02] How do you say that?
[01:26:03] Bad midden.
[01:26:04] Yeah, competing that.
[01:26:05] That's true.
[01:26:06] Bad.
[01:26:07] You don't need tennis or bad midden elbow, you know, for, you know, I,
[01:26:11] I, I, I, I, I, I.
[01:26:16] That's the one, I'll make it three.
[01:26:18] And then you have discipline, right.
[01:26:20] And that's for your brain memory, how many things.
[01:26:22] So they play into each other, is you're insane.
[01:26:24] So the joint warfare has the brain stuff and the joint stuff.
[01:26:25] Crilt oil has the joint stuff.
[01:26:26] Really good day at your Jitsu the other day.
[01:26:27] And I was talking to Dave Burke on my way home from Jitsu.
[01:26:30] Good deal, dude.
[01:26:31] Yeah, good deal, Dave.
[01:26:32] And I was like, you know, you said only I trained today.
[01:26:35] I was like, I had a really good day at that.
[01:26:39] So he's like, what does that mean?
[01:26:40] I'll just mean, you know, like, just getting after just.
[01:26:44] And I realized that the past anyways, I realized that I've been taking like three
[01:26:49] scoops of discipline.
[01:26:50] I'm not going to try.
[01:26:51] Oh, okay.
[01:26:52] Oh, is that illegal?
[01:26:53] Yeah, well, you know, I, you know, you may be, it could be it should be maybe, yeah.
[01:26:58] Well, you depends on what you mean by fair.
[01:27:00] Because if you're going into compete with your training partners, which you do from
[01:27:03] time to time, let's face it.
[01:27:05] And yeah, it's a little bit of an advantage.
[01:27:07] Yeah, fair.
[01:27:08] No, it's ashes.
[01:27:09] It's ashes, fair.
[01:27:10] Andy, or wherever you go into training with, D, me, we could take three things
[01:27:16] that discipline.
[01:27:17] If you wanted to.
[01:27:18] One or two, it's fair.
[01:27:19] It's fair.
[01:27:20] In fact, I recommend take three things at discipline.
[01:27:22] Boom.
[01:27:23] There it is.
[01:27:24] Dislink.
[01:27:25] Cognitive enhancing.
[01:27:26] So they all play with each other.
[01:27:27] That's important.
[01:27:28] Very important.
[01:27:29] I think.
[01:27:31] Regardless how much you can live.
[01:27:34] Yeah, check.
[01:27:35] Also, milk.
[01:27:37] What is milk?
[01:27:40] Who is someone who's just asking about milk?
[01:27:43] And the best thing about when people ask you what milk is is you get it.
[01:27:46] You get a chance to do the routine.
[01:27:48] Right?
[01:27:49] You get a chance to do the routine.
[01:27:51] Well, someone's like, no, what's milk?
[01:27:53] What's milk?
[01:27:54] What's milk?
[01:27:55] Yeah.
[01:27:56] You get to do the routine, which is what's milk?
[01:27:58] Oh, it's milk.
[01:27:59] That's the routine.
[01:28:00] That's the routine.
[01:28:01] You remember what is it?
[01:28:02] It's milk.
[01:28:03] No, it's milk.
[01:28:04] You want some kind of explanation.
[01:28:05] You're like, no, no.
[01:28:06] It's milk.
[01:28:07] Yeah, yeah.
[01:28:08] Common sense.
[01:28:09] Really?
[01:28:10] How do you say that?
[01:28:11] You just take common sense from there and boom, clear.
[01:28:13] Yeah.
[01:28:14] That's my goal.
[01:28:16] My goal is that it ends up in the Oxford English dictionary.
[01:28:20] Yeah.
[01:28:21] Like zerox.
[01:28:22] And then if someone doesn't know what it is, they can just go look it up.
[01:28:24] Yeah, look it up.
[01:28:25] That's in the dictionary by the way.
[01:28:26] Yeah.
[01:28:27] That's my goal.
[01:28:28] Like Google is Google in there for like, yes.
[01:28:29] Yes.
[01:28:30] It's a girl living in a room.
[01:28:31] Go Google that.
[01:28:32] Yeah.
[01:28:33] So Google.
[01:28:34] So Google.
[01:28:35] Yeah.
[01:28:35] Yeah.
[01:28:36] There.
[01:28:37] You'll find it.
[01:28:38] Yes.
[01:28:39] You'll know what it is.
[01:28:40] Well, you'll know that it's tasty.
[01:28:41] The guy that said, hey, I don't use protein powders.
[01:28:46] But does it taste that good?
[01:28:48] I should just get it anyways.
[01:28:50] My answer was 100% resounding.
[01:28:52] Absolutely.
[01:28:53] Yeah.
[01:28:54] You just want to have a really good dessert.
[01:28:56] Yeah.
[01:28:57] Peanut butter is coming.
[01:28:58] So Dave Burke is on the path to order all the peanut butter.
[01:29:06] They're chocolate anyways.
[01:29:07] Oh, the whole supply.
[01:29:08] Yeah.
[01:29:09] You want to also supply.
[01:29:10] Not a bad idea.
[01:29:11] Yeah.
[01:29:12] Yeah.
[01:29:13] So yeah.
[01:29:14] If you don't know, molek look.
[01:29:15] I'm going to violate some terminology scenarios here.
[01:29:17] Molek is protein powder.
[01:29:19] It's actually molek.
[01:29:21] Yeah, man.
[01:29:22] The best protein powder.
[01:29:24] That tastes like a dessert straight up does though.
[01:29:26] Not just claims and doesn't.
[01:29:28] It does straight up.
[01:29:30] Literally.
[01:29:31] And we will have molek at the immersion camp.
[01:29:33] This summer up in Maine.
[01:29:35] Echo Lake layers August 26th through September 2nd.
[01:29:39] Two sessions come up there.
[01:29:40] I'll be there.
[01:29:41] Lave will be there.
[01:29:43] Echo Charles will be there.
[01:29:44] And apparently you say you will be rolling.
[01:29:46] Yeah, limited.
[01:29:47] Okay.
[01:29:48] Limited rolling from from which sounds like pre-determined excuses.
[01:29:51] Which is fine.
[01:29:52] Yeah.
[01:29:53] Well, here.
[01:29:54] Okay.
[01:29:55] All right.
[01:29:56] We'll let him lay it out then.
[01:29:56] Playboy.
[01:29:57] The.
[01:29:58] The ghee.
[01:29:59] I'll be doing less of because ghee has a lot of
[01:30:01] sugar.
[01:30:06] So pulling.
[01:30:07] I'm really.
[01:30:08] I'm out of pulling.
[01:30:09] I can't do pulling.
[01:30:10] Very limited.
[01:30:11] Maybe with one hand.
[01:30:12] So I'll do ghee.
[01:30:13] But it's like, okay.
[01:30:14] Now I'm rolling literally with one hand.
[01:30:15] By the way, ghee.
[01:30:16] We'll be there.
[01:30:17] Yeah.
[01:30:18] Dean Lister will be there.
[01:30:19] And if you want to learn from someone, he is one of the top people.
[01:30:20] In the world to learn from.
[01:30:21] And I know that's a bold statement.
[01:30:22] Yeah.
[01:30:23] I know it is.
[01:30:24] He's got a mind that understands not only the mechanics.
[01:30:29] And the concepts of the jitsu.
[01:30:33] Added at it.
[01:30:34] But one of the highest levels of anyone ever recomunicated with.
[01:30:37] But also knows how to express those concepts in a very clear way.
[01:30:41] So immersion camp.
[01:30:44] August 26 through September 2nd.
[01:30:46] Go and come up there.
[01:30:48] We'll see you up there.
[01:30:49] Good places.
[01:30:50] And we will have more.
[01:30:51] Yes.
[01:30:52] Lots of it.
[01:30:53] And Dean's good at kind of taking the concept and really clarifying the concept.
[01:30:57] Even separate from the actor.
[01:30:59] I mean, the moves always attach.
[01:31:00] But Dean says things sometimes that I run over and take a little note on my phone.
[01:31:06] Yeah.
[01:31:07] Yeah.
[01:31:08] I'm going to call it.
[01:31:09] That's a good one.
[01:31:10] Usually I'm thinking I'm going to when he comes on the podcast.
[01:31:13] I'm going to talk about those things.
[01:31:15] So I hope you know, mum.
[01:31:17] Also, good way to support is the fact.
[01:31:20] We're on top of the fact.
[01:31:22] Where is part of the fact that chocolate is on store?
[01:31:25] It's called jocquistore.
[01:31:27] It's going to jocquistore.com for these items.
[01:31:30] It's where you can get rash cards.
[01:31:32] You can definitely get rash cards.
[01:31:33] Yes.
[01:31:34] Get after it.
[01:31:35] T-shirts.
[01:31:37] A bunch of t-shirts.
[01:31:38] Yeah.
[01:31:39] They want to say discipline equals freedom.
[01:31:40] New t-shirt coming.
[01:31:41] New t-shirts are coming.
[01:31:44] Oh t-shirts with pearls.
[01:31:45] Yeah.
[01:31:46] Oh dang.
[01:31:47] Two of them.
[01:31:48] If, yeah.
[01:31:49] If you're interested in the t-shirts,
[01:31:51] they want to say discipline equals freedom.
[01:31:52] It's a good one.
[01:31:53] I get revealed how deep the expression discipline equals freedom goes.
[01:32:02] Like almost date and that not daily.
[01:32:04] But let's say once you understand it at a deep level,
[01:32:08] deeper and less present it to reveal to you how important it is.
[01:32:10] Yes.
[01:32:11] How much even more than I proved for previously thought the week before.
[01:32:14] It's almost like it has no limit to the layers.
[01:32:17] It's pretty important.
[01:32:18] Yeah.
[01:32:19] Actually, I've been sporting the discipline equals freedom.
[01:32:24] The trucker hat.
[01:32:27] So, and I also have the deaf beanie.
[01:32:32] Yes.
[01:32:33] Yeah.
[01:32:33] That's a good one.
[01:32:34] So you got that.
[01:32:35] That was available.
[01:32:36] Check.
[01:32:37] Yep.
[01:32:38] Yes.
[01:32:39] And also, hoodies.
[01:32:41] Heavy hoodies.
[01:32:43] And light noodies.
[01:32:44] I know, I know, I know.
[01:32:45] But I have been getting feedback
[01:32:48] online and offline, by the way, for the light hoodie.
[01:32:53] People just love them.
[01:32:55] They want the light hoodie man.
[01:32:57] They want to represent, you know, like I said.
[01:33:00] That's a Hawaii.
[01:33:01] I'm telling you.
[01:33:02] There are times.
[01:33:03] All your friends.
[01:33:04] They're Hawaii.
[01:33:05] All them, everybody.
[01:33:06] And all the ohan and Hawaii's hit me up.
[01:33:09] Become a Ina.
[01:33:10] All them.
[01:33:11] Yes.
[01:33:12] And because in Hawaii and other places here,
[01:33:14] let's face it.
[01:33:15] There are times where it's like, hey,
[01:33:16] like yesterday was one of them.
[01:33:18] It's like, bro, it's kind of cold.
[01:33:21] But it's not cold.
[01:33:22] It's kind of cold.
[01:33:23] If you were a t-shirt, it's like, man, this environment.
[01:33:26] Whether is offering.
[01:33:30] It's not offering.
[01:33:31] Not feed.
[01:33:32] No, go dev.
[01:33:33] No, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:33:35] Negative.
[01:33:36] Nope.
[01:33:37] That's not to me,
[01:33:38] especially if you're at like a little gathering.
[01:33:41] Social.
[01:33:42] Social.
[01:33:46] It's a situation.
[01:33:47] It's maybe.
[01:33:48] It could be looked at as paramount.
[01:33:50] But here's what it is.
[01:33:51] If the if the weather, whatever,
[01:33:54] environment is offering slight discomfort.
[01:33:57] You know, you have a right.
[01:33:58] You know, I'm laughing so hard right now.
[01:34:00] Because everything you're saying is things that I wouldn't allow myself or anyone of my
[01:34:04] immediate family to say.
[01:34:05] It doesn't make it.
[01:34:07] It doesn't make it anymore true.
[01:34:08] That's the thing.
[01:34:09] So hey, look, I mean, you're cruising.
[01:34:11] Right outside.
[01:34:12] Maybe not you.
[01:34:13] I can't.
[01:34:14] If me and their, I don't think you did it.
[01:34:15] I don't think you do.
[01:34:16] That's the thing.
[01:34:17] If me and Dave work were cruising.
[01:34:19] Oh, maybe he'd want them on.
[01:34:20] And yeah, it's like it just maybe three degrees too cold.
[01:34:24] Yeah, you can suck it up.
[01:34:26] But what?
[01:34:27] Why you got to endure discomfort at times when it's not necessary?
[01:34:30] Unless you're exercising your tolerance for discomfort.
[01:34:33] You should be.
[01:34:34] Which you should add all point at all times.
[01:34:35] That's what you're saying.
[01:34:36] Affirmative.
[01:34:37] No, okay.
[01:34:38] Me and Dave, we don't agree with this.
[01:34:39] So you put on a regular hoodie or heavy or even a medium hoodie after what?
[01:34:44] Five minutes, six minutes.
[01:34:46] We worked out earlier today, whatever that he is too hot.
[01:34:50] So thick hoodie too hot.
[01:34:51] No hoodie too cold.
[01:34:53] Boom, light hoodie perfect.
[01:34:56] Because you don't know about that perfection.
[01:34:58] You know, that caught me, man.
[01:35:00] You know, this own balance, this own.
[01:35:02] Anyway, light hoodie.
[01:35:03] This one equals freedom.
[01:35:05] That's the freedom part.
[01:35:07] Boom.
[01:35:08] Women's stuff as well.
[01:35:09] By the way, women's t-shirts specifically for the ladies.
[01:35:15] And tank tops.
[01:35:16] Boom.
[01:35:17] Rosh guards are kind of for everybody.
[01:35:18] Still boom.
[01:35:19] You can also subscribe to this podcast.
[01:35:21] Sure.
[01:35:22] iTunes Google Play Stitcher.
[01:35:24] Leave reviews.
[01:35:25] So I can read them and laugh because you guys are really good at writing the cool reviews that crack me up.
[01:35:31] So thank you for that.
[01:35:33] Stitcher is well by the way.
[01:35:35] Don't forget about the YouTube.
[01:35:36] You can subscribe to YouTube too.
[01:35:39] And that's what you'll see.
[01:35:40] Echo Charles is videos.
[01:35:42] Sure.
[01:35:43] So say that's.
[01:35:44] We'll say you've got some skills in life.
[01:35:47] That's one of your paramount skills.
[01:35:49] Making cool videos.
[01:35:51] Cool.
[01:35:52] A great disagree.
[01:35:53] Yeah.
[01:35:54] Sure.
[01:35:55] That's not a good one.
[01:35:56] Put you on the spot to not be humble.
[01:35:57] So I won't do that.
[01:35:58] Echo makes good videos.
[01:36:01] And they're on YouTube.
[01:36:03] You're new subscribe to the channel.
[01:36:05] Jockel's podcast YouTube channel.
[01:36:07] Yeah.
[01:36:08] Very easy to find for basic, very,
[01:36:10] very,
[01:36:10] subscriberable.
[01:36:12] Mm-hmm.
[01:36:13] You know, yeah.
[01:36:14] Good way to support for sure.
[01:36:15] Also some excerpts on there.
[01:36:17] You know, little lessons from this podcast directly.
[01:36:20] Mm-hmm.
[01:36:21] And you know, so sometimes you don't want to listen to,
[01:36:23] let's say you listen to podcast number 100,
[01:36:26] one.
[01:36:27] And you're like, hey, there's some good stuff in there.
[01:36:29] But should I listen to the whole,
[01:36:31] you know, how many hours of the podcast for that one lesson?
[01:36:33] One lesson that I want to kind of revisit?
[01:36:35] Should you do that?
[01:36:37] Mm-hmm.
[01:36:38] Some of us don't have that kind of time.
[01:36:39] So I'm going to put out some excerpts from all the podcasts.
[01:36:41] Most of them.
[01:36:42] So yeah, go on there, subscribe.
[01:36:43] Get a little alert.
[01:36:44] And we put one up.
[01:36:46] That's the one you want to listen to.
[01:36:47] Boom, listen to it.
[01:36:48] Good way to support.
[01:36:49] By the way.
[01:36:50] Also.
[01:36:51] On it.
[01:36:53] On it.com slash chocolate.
[01:36:55] This is where I get all my kettlebells.
[01:36:58] I won't say all my socks, but a lot of socks.
[01:37:00] That's where I get them from.
[01:37:01] I know, sounds weird.
[01:37:02] But man, some of those things.
[01:37:04] Sometimes you appreciate the socks you're wearing,
[01:37:06] especially when you're going through the airport.
[01:37:08] TSA, boom, you gotta take off your shoes.
[01:37:09] Boom, hit them with the on it socks.
[01:37:11] Anyway, fitness gear mainly.
[01:37:14] I think that's what I go.
[01:37:15] And for the information too.
[01:37:17] By the way, like kettlebells.
[01:37:18] What I started kettlebells?
[01:37:19] I heard good things.
[01:37:20] You know, start the kettlebells.
[01:37:22] They're kind of, they're intimidating.
[01:37:24] So boom, going on it.
[01:37:26] .com.
[01:37:27] They have all the info on there.
[01:37:28] Little things about form.
[01:37:30] Little workouts.
[01:37:31] Really good.
[01:37:32] Good on maces too.
[01:37:33] Are they called battle maces?
[01:37:35] Just maces.
[01:37:36] They're steel sticks.
[01:37:40] Clubs.
[01:37:41] Clubs that look like the juggling clubs.
[01:37:44] Yeah.
[01:37:45] But they have one thing there.
[01:37:46] You can't juggle.
[01:37:47] That's the thing.
[01:37:48] If you could juggle those, you'd be a, you'd be a complete badass.
[01:37:51] If you'd juggle those 20 pounders.
[01:37:53] They're freaking heavy.
[01:37:54] Yeah.
[01:37:55] And they're heavier than they sound when you say 20 pounds.
[01:37:58] Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[01:37:59] It's all the time.
[01:38:00] It's all the time.
[01:38:01] They're heavy.
[01:38:02] The only way they're 20 pounds.
[01:38:04] The only way they're even, they can even justify saying 20 pounds is when you actually
[01:38:08] put them on the scale and the number of happens.
[01:38:10] Because it's the same 20.
[01:38:11] Otherwise, it's not 20.
[01:38:12] You think they were not made out of metal, but some, you know, something from outer space.
[01:38:16] If you brought them to the airport and you know when you're checking in, you know, and you put the
[01:38:20] your luggage on the scale and you know you were pushing it, you know that it may be over 50 pounds
[01:38:25] and you're like nervous.
[01:38:26] Right.
[01:38:27] And then it doesn't hit 50 pounds.
[01:38:32] If you got that mace, you have that mace in your hand.
[01:38:34] You're about to put that on the scale.
[01:38:35] You know, you know, this is going over.
[01:38:37] I'm paying that extra overage of feet.
[01:38:40] That's what it feels like.
[01:38:41] It's as far as the mace goes.
[01:38:43] Anyway, happens to be a good thing to work out with.
[01:38:45] But you grabbed that thing.
[01:38:46] You're me like, okay, what kind of workout I'm going to do this?
[01:38:48] Boom on it.
[01:38:49] Talk com slash drucko.
[01:38:50] Look up the workout.
[01:38:51] You got it.
[01:38:52] Also psychological warfare.
[01:38:54] It's an album that has various tracks on it that you can.
[01:38:56] Play to push you through moments of weakness.
[01:39:01] And we are we are formulating psychological warfare to all your excuses are lies.
[01:39:07] Yes.
[01:39:08] Working time working time working time.
[01:39:10] But it's pretty good title.
[01:39:12] Also, juggle like tea.
[01:39:14] There's a thing.
[01:39:15] I'm a tea drinker now.
[01:39:16] I don't know if you know that.
[01:39:18] I'm a tea drinker now.
[01:39:19] I drink tea regularly.
[01:39:20] I think that's kind of all it takes really.
[01:39:22] But.
[01:39:24] There was a whole thing when I didn't realize I didn't know that tea drinker had like some stereotypical thing behind it.
[01:39:36] Yeah, yeah.
[01:39:36] So when I get on this schema, white tea people are, that's really weird.
[01:39:39] But you'd make tea because they think I'd I'd be making.
[01:39:42] What a work.
[01:39:43] Malk.
[01:39:44] Yeah.
[01:39:45] Yeah.
[01:39:45] They think I'd make more, but they wouldn't think I'd strike me as a tea drinker.
[01:39:48] I didn't realize that.
[01:39:50] So I guess we're changing the paradigm and those stereotypes will not be.
[01:39:53] Well, not be expecting you didn't accept it anymore.
[01:39:56] Oh, agreed.
[01:39:57] I drink tea and I'm proud.
[01:39:58] Maybe you're changing you're just evolving this stereotype.
[01:40:02] Maybe because you are a tea drinker.
[01:40:03] I'll straighten up.
[01:40:04] I've been drinking tea since day one.
[01:40:06] Not really since day one, but since I figured out.
[01:40:08] Day two.
[01:40:09] Yeah.
[01:40:10] Day two.
[01:40:11] There you go.
[01:40:12] Boom.
[01:40:13] Yeah.
[01:40:14] So juggle white tea, pomegranate, all organic certified by the way.
[01:40:17] Because you know, juggle cares about that kind of stuff.
[01:40:20] In the bags and in the can.
[01:40:22] Big deal.
[01:40:23] And the most tea drinkers care about certified organic.
[01:40:25] Yeah, like it.
[01:40:26] That's another stereotype.
[01:40:27] So GMO tea.
[01:40:28] No good.
[01:40:29] No good.
[01:40:30] We don't have that.
[01:40:31] We'll not put that in my body.
[01:40:32] Yeah, you're right.
[01:40:34] Agreed.
[01:40:35] You get it on Amazon.
[01:40:36] Yeah.
[01:40:37] In fact, I think that's the only place you can get it.
[01:40:39] Well, it is the only place you can get it right now.
[01:40:41] And important fact, there's dry white tea that you put in a brew.
[01:40:45] And then there's the new thing, which is in a can.
[01:40:49] Yeah.
[01:40:50] And the thing that's fired up right now is people that are replacing the 12 or not
[01:40:55] the 12, but they're replacing the four energy drinks.
[01:40:59] Yeah.
[01:41:00] Which actually give you no energy.
[01:41:01] They actually sap your energy and crush your soul and turn you into a health disaster.
[01:41:07] People are replacing that crap with juggle white tea in a can.
[01:41:12] One day it's going to be everywhere.
[01:41:14] That's my suspicion.
[01:41:15] Yeah.
[01:41:16] You're just going to be people will just be, well, you know, the one you're not going
[01:41:18] to like, on.
[01:41:19] You know, speaking of, oh, you're also available in Canada.
[01:41:22] I know a lot of Canadian folks say, wait, is this stuff?
[01:41:25] Why can't I get up here?
[01:41:26] So it's now available Amazon Canada.
[01:41:28] Yeah.
[01:41:29] I'm going to put on the store too.
[01:41:30] Okay.
[01:41:31] And I've been working on it.
[01:41:32] And we're almost there.
[01:41:33] So check back with the store.
[01:41:35] Talk with store.
[01:41:36] Okay.
[01:41:37] That's been placed to have them.
[01:41:38] They can get the tea wherever.
[01:41:39] I don't care if you're in.
[01:41:40] We're a chocolate products or so.
[01:41:42] That's where they're sold.
[01:41:44] Speaking of Amazon books.
[01:41:47] I got some books.
[01:41:48] Good.
[01:41:49] Yeah.
[01:41:50] One, two are called the way of the word kid.
[01:41:53] Way of the word kid from Wimpy to Warrior.
[01:41:56] Right.
[01:41:57] That's the what do you call it after the colon that part.
[01:41:59] That's a subtitle.
[01:42:00] Sure.
[01:42:01] There it is.
[01:42:02] Wimpy to work.
[01:42:03] And then the second one is Mark's mission.
[01:42:05] Really clever evolution of problems to be solved in both.
[01:42:09] So now you have the ethos.
[01:42:11] Okay.
[01:42:12] So hi.
[01:42:13] I did it.
[01:42:14] Do it is.
[01:42:15] I read the first one.
[01:42:16] And I just keep repeating to my kids.
[01:42:18] And about time many kids become a거 and many kids would be fake.
[01:42:19] I forgot about individual models, they have actual technologies.
[01:42:21] I didn't just
[01:42:21] let's add i'ma welcome he would they would not do magic with bro.
[01:42:34] Cute sound.
[01:42:35] I understand I don't culture it.
[01:42:37] You know gob anyone has digital in this speech or a fucking
[01:42:40] game, don't you?
[01:42:41] Let me get you a piece jak.
[01:42:42] But yeah, it's a good one also the discipline equals freedom field manual
[01:42:47] It's field manual that's kind of manual in my opinion, but this is like a manual for life
[01:42:52] I think it's like a very basic backbone for life
[01:42:55] It is start there you'll be you'll be solid. I'm always stoked when I meet someone that comes up and it's like
[01:43:02] Real bad you will you?
[01:43:04] I'm on the path. They're like they're not kidding. They're on the path
[01:43:07] Yeah, crack that thing open read two pages read two pages to prep
[01:43:13] Mentally for the day it will have impact and if you want to listen to those pages is not available on
[01:43:19] audible
[01:43:20] It's available on
[01:43:21] iTunes Amazon music Google play as an MP3 album with tracks that's where you can get it of course
[01:43:27] You can also get extreme ownership
[01:43:29] Extreme ownership you can get the the the hard cover book
[01:43:33] Mm-hmm and you can also get the audible that one you can get the audible version and the audible version is
[01:43:41] Lafe and I reading
[01:43:44] That book
[01:43:46] That's that's who's reading it that's who's doing the narration and then
[01:43:51] Also, life and I have a book called the dichotomy of leadership
[01:43:55] Which I've talked about dichotomy all the time on this podcast the reason I talk about it's because it's hard to
[01:44:00] I
[01:44:02] Don't even say master. It's hard to even get a grip on that dichotomy the different dichotomy is inside of leadership
[01:44:07] Mm-hmm and so Lafe and I knew that we had to go into a more granular level of explanation of the dichotomy of leadership
[01:44:14] And that's what this new book is it comes out September
[01:44:19] 25th and also for leadership training live inside your organization whatever that organization might be
[01:44:26] Check out my company Ashland front leadership consulting we solve problems through leadership
[01:44:33] That's that we have one more master in 2018 the
[01:44:39] Master is a
[01:44:41] Leadership conference we have one more in 2018 it is in San Francisco October 17th and 18th
[01:44:48] October 17th and 18th all the other ones that we've done have sold out
[01:44:52] If you want to come get your ticket you can get an extreme ownership dot com and also for current
[01:44:59] uniform personnel so people in the military law enforcement board patrol firefighters
[01:45:04] Paramedics first responders we have a roll call number one
[01:45:09] September 21st in Dallas, Texas
[01:45:11] That's also you can also register for that extreme ownership dot com
[01:45:16] That's one day focused on the dynamic leadership
[01:45:20] Environment so that's like a
[01:45:23] Master more focused on the issues of first responders, essentially, yeah, but it is essentially a master
[01:45:30] It's a mustard like shorter. It's a shorter master. It's more focused. It's a cheaper price point and it's one day. There's less
[01:45:41] A menteties right so when you come to the master everything's kind of
[01:45:45] Kind of decked out like the lunch meals really good the dinners great
[01:45:50] It's like decked out to take into the highest level the
[01:45:55] Roll call is like hey, we're here to get the information out to people that need it
[01:46:00] People that are in the field every day whether it's in the military whether it's on the beat is a cop
[01:46:03] Whether it's a firefighter, you know for people that are on the job people in uniform that we try and support
[01:46:10] They need this leadership training. They asked for this leadership training
[01:46:13] We needed to do an energy preprisepoint. What could we save money? You still get it done. There you go
[01:46:17] That's what that's what that's what the roll call is but it's the same deal as far as there's no backstage
[01:46:21] Oh, no, that's the game
[01:46:24] Talking everybody the whole day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be there no
[01:46:29] green room and
[01:46:31] until we do see you
[01:46:33] Big time at either the mustard or the roll call or the immersion camp in Maine if you want to roll with us
[01:46:43] Virtually we are all up on the interwebs on Twitter and
[01:46:49] Instagram and that's
[01:46:51] Pacy block
[01:46:53] Echoes at echo Charles and I am at jockel willink and to those of you in uniform
[01:46:59] That we're the cloth of the nation without you this podcast and our freedom would not exist
[01:47:07] So thank you to police law enforcement firefighters paramedics border patrol other first responders
[01:47:14] Thank you for keeping us safe while we sleep
[01:47:21] And also to those in uniform thanks to your families
[01:47:25] For their sacrifice that is a hard job as well and everyone else
[01:47:33] Thanks for listening. Thanks for supporting thanks for moving away from the darkness and toward the light
[01:47:43] Thanks for fighting
[01:47:45] Thanks for getting after it and most of all
[01:47:49] Thanks for living
[01:47:51] So until next time this is echo and jockel
[01:47:57] Roun