Jocko Podcast 114 w/ Leif Babin - How to Lead and Win.

2018-02-22T04:28:22Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @leifbabin @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:04:03 - Leif Babin 0:07:20 - How often does Leif Disagree w/ Jocko's commands? 0:22:51 - The evolution on Echelon Front. 0:31:01 - How to control rumors and gossip in an organization. 0:37:07 - Benefits of The Muster. 0:51:59 - What would Leif and Jocko have done differently in the past? 0:55:18 - Advice on restarting your life after the military. 0:58:10 - Jocko's most impactful strategy on Leif. 1:04:17 - Las Vegas stuff. 1:11:08 - Daily non-negotiable habits. 1:17:28 - Thoughts on the policy that the ship's captain takes all the blame. 1:25:00 - Self talk for clear thinking. 1:35:28 - Injury rates in Jiu Jitsu. 1:44:36 - How to promote healing when tragically losing a team member. 1:47:55 - What to do if you Jiu Jitsu coach/instructor is a "know it all" 1:54:29 - Staying focus when having bad days in the field. 1:58:46 - Getting into trouble as a teen (before the military). 2:03:01 - How did the enemy in Ramadi match up against US Special Forces? 2:11:53 - How Does the Navy Prepare you to Lead? 2:20:03 - At What point did The Extreme Ownership Enlightenment Occur? 2:35:32 - Support: JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, and Jocko Soap. 3:00:03 - Closing Gratitude

AI summary of episode

Yeah, so running a ground is one thing the You know, and there's an argument to be said like because some of our greatest leaders like Admiral fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz who was the hero the Pacific war was off-court to him You know on this on this podcast previously He was the commander chief of all US forces in the Pacific so he was he was the the the person Responsible for the entire war effort against the Japanese in World War II and that victory A massive effort obviously in an extraordinary turnaround From from this assur to to victory He actually ran a ship a ground as as a junior officer, so so there's you know There's an argument to be made that there is no full you know the flawless performance it doesn't exist and people make mistakes You can learn from it, you know as far as ships running around You know that that's one thing. That's a problem When you're not detached you don't even know you're not detached you're in the storm and you don't even know it That's a lot of stuff for that's exactly right, but I think you know for people it maybe don't fully understand what that means Right this this idea of the tax which you've obviously talked a lot about on here and which is such a key thing for decision making it's The I think the key thing there is is to make sure that that you're not you're not clouded by You know this emotional attachment to plans which we often talk about with our Ladies and the seal teams like I'm emotionally invested in a plan that I came up with I spent hours or days or weeks or months you know involved in I was like we designed our own patches were like where do you say we patch me and the Delta Potent Commander We me and the Delta Potent Commander said we're gonna design some batches for testing in a bruiser and I don't know I don't know why if we just had an idea that this was gonna be a historic unit This was gonna be something we wanted to be a part of but we felt like we needed Tasking the patch and I felt like you secretly wanted us to have them even though you told us not to do it So I think You know if you're in that stage and you're you're a wild teen You need to think clearly about the long-term consequences Because you definitely can pay the man now and pay later in that situation for sure one of the things that we do is as Young boys and speaking from a boy perspective because I'm not a girl and when I was growing up and with the way I look back on it now a lot of the stuff that we did dumb stuff that we did as teenagers was We were testing each other and we were trying to prove ourselves back on on top watch me do this like on it's almost it's almost like if you go Instinctually as a tribe member You're proving that you're willing to sacrifice you're willing to take risk and sacrifice That's what you're proving to your peers like I'm gonna like what you just said pick up truck I'm gonna drive down the road but it's it's when you're that amped up your chances of of getting injured or Wayward just more significant and it's why you know if you see a brand new white belt come with I'm much rather roll with brown belt and Perfect blue even though I know they're gonna you know they're gonna get the best of me I have a much less chance of getting injured than just the death match with some white belt who's you know Who doesn't even know you know anything We're gonna make a good this is the bait the fundamentally we're gonna make a good first impression We're gonna look square to weigh which means we're gonna You know have square to weigh here cuts we're gonna blouse our boots and we're gonna wear a Normal looking uniform which means we don't have crazy looking patches that that Make us look different right cuz that's the thing that you're saying the thing you're saying is look at me. Yep, and playing the game as well right that I'm gonna buck authority of like you know what actually it's gonna be a lot worse for you If you just you know even from a just personal perspective not knowing worse for you, but you're for your squad or for your You know these folks that you care about if you just build a better relationship with the folks above you and set of being the You know hard headed argumentative guy for sure It would be way better for me. or You know like you have a specific question like hey that was cool what you just said but what about you know like some people have questions So during the break When most times like at these conventions or whatever they got the you know the people they'll they'll say they're what they have to send But like we say in the in the in the Navy all the time You know perception is reality that becomes reality so you've got to you got to you can defeat the gossip and rumors by actually Just sharing the truth be open with people and and and and being first out there with the message So people get an understanding and even when horrible bad things go wrong Extreme ownership right if if you take ownership for that and say hey listen this happened here's what we're doing to fix it here's what we're doing in turn things around It's kind of People people people are not gonna lose respect for you in the organization They're actually gonna gain respect for years results. I mean it is is And at one point I'm like laughing him because he's literally like You know that kind of breathing like Dave in his Like you know when you breathe when you feel here somebody breathing hard like that typically it's like when you're they're writing your ear I mean, I think Just like any just like our combat experience we would adapt to the battlefield We learned we educated ourselves about things that we didn't know about and and and we've grown I mean, I don't think anyone could I don't know if we could have predicted just how you know widely disseminated the book would be or Or you know the popular things that we're talking about We knew they were powerful it's a whole reason we wrote the book. That's where you know like as a new beginner white belt to whatever I'm gonna come in and then just get insulted by and know it all the whatever like I don't know even though if I like you Jitsu now yeah kind of things and you run there. but but if you've got you got the right team in place They know what they're doing you know that there's all kinds of safe safeguards in place and if that team's properly trained like that Should not happen it should not it's like you should be able the airplane should land safely all the horrible things It could go wrong when you're flying in near plane and landing in a crazy airport like JFK or you know our LX I think the other thing to is you know do everything you can to take care of that that person and their family Take care of their family and and help them out and you know that's an obligation that never goes away That you're always gonna have and that's extremely important and something that's that's helped me through you know Those difficult losses is by serving others and looking trying to look out for others and I got to do that even more than I do You know another thing that can help out In those dark times is a little bit of jiu-jitsu to be quite frank with you next questions about jiu-jitsu again That's what it's gonna do Not only what you should think about in a section called thoughts, but all of the actions you should take if you Want to proceed to get stronger Faster smarter and all around better and if you want the audio version don't look for it on audible because it's not there This is an Album also with tracks and it's available in MP3 format From Amazon music from Google play from other MP3 platforms And actually life, let's talk a little bit about I don't know a couple books we wrote a little company we got maybe a little event that we're doing First of all most if you want a dive deeper in the leadership principles that we've been talking about and referencing getting extreme ownership That's we have people ask us like hey, where did you make mistakes in your career? I mean, a couple of disagreements that came up, you know, for me, something that we taught at all the time, you know, with our business as long front, when we were talking to companies and leadership teams, going to the work of cycle, you know, we always talk about people want to hire folks and just kind of let them run and, you know, people want to say, hey, give them, give them the opportunity to go out and succeed. Shut up according to jockel yelling, but if you're you know how like you're talking like you know You know, it's like it's kind of like you're explained Practically oh some red flags are going off red flags Are those things that as you talked about often you recognize In yourself like okay, I'm getting spun up right now I need to take a step back here and and and throttle back I knew throttle back or because I'm getting spun up so so with kids I got a look at it as you know what this is good Because because I know that some of it's in my nature that I can get spun up so with kids I got to relish that opportunity to say this is a training opportunity for me to be outside my comfort zone to say you know what I feel myself getting spun up. It's a great tool there really for me I think what the when Jocco would sense that in me and we talked about a number of times when that's happened here on the podcast That I was getting spun up, you know, we talked about you know previous In previous podcast about cancel the hop at some of these things where I you know, I just I would get fired really and get angry and and you What most people would have done that situation what I probably would have done to a subordinate leader is get is Get spun up as well and like you yell at me now I'm gonna yell at you, but a little bit louder exactly Yeah, you know I'm not the thing that would work but it would only work like a few times after while it's kind of like You know, you know, it's like cool Life gets it, but We're not all jacco when someone says like or is it know it all and I'm supposed to trust this person to teach me Jiu Jitsu because you know for all the great reasons we take Jiu Jitsu and I'm trusting this person and They're gonna be like how this guy explained I don't know man. I can see that they're like all this is going on and I'm gonna I'm gonna like You know what I'm saying like you think you could have been you could have had that no question about Yeah, a little bit of you know a little bit of anger about that one right there just because they got good grades You know God they really think God Correctors there can be a charge me listen there there are some resentful this is new lay if I just met a new lay for resentful lay I'm actually not at all resentful I I Can tell you I had some I had some good friends who were in those positions and it was great for them, you know good for them So it was it was interesting people were a lot different than I expected and and some folks didn't quite have the The war like mentality that that I expected everyone might have You know going into that environment, but there's no question that if I did done a better job of You know you caught playing playing the game just seeing that you know detaching and seeing like hey Listen thinking strategically. So you might want to just show a little diminished reflection of the part of you know if someone's really sad about something Okay, you know you can't just be like hey, it's not that big of a deal like you know I got It's like it's like learning a Jitsu move from One person and they teach you a fundamental basic move and you're like okay understand that and then Compared to okay now you're gonna get a private lesson like that's like in a class, right? and I got I got really lucky because We got right into this and you you the same thing like we we went right into a new mission and so any time to kind of Wander round and look around and figure out which direction to go and by the way When you're wandering on and looking around to find out which direction to go You're gonna get pulled into the direction and that direction is probably gonna be the path of least resistance. And one of those times in particular was when I was, you know, when I was trying to get, get, I remember a number of times, I want to amount out at, and our, our desert training facility, out at what we call land warfare, and I'm trying to get the Patoon, to pull back to position and we're trying to, trying to patrol out and you gave me, you told me to actually, you know, stop trying to put, put a bunch of detail information out of the radio, like use verbal commands, do it this way, and I, you know, immediately, my ego getting the way I was in, it was frustrating because the team wasn't doing what I wanted to do.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 14 with echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink. Good evening, I go good evening.
[00:00:10] And tonight we have a guest on the podcast for the fourth time, the fourth appearance which is no surprise really
[00:00:24] because this is a guy that I went to war with, started a business with, wrote a book with,
[00:00:32] I actually watched him get married and have kids and by houses and go from a, let's say a wild single man going to live a Friday night like it was his last night ever.
[00:00:52] To a guy with a diaper in one hand and a bag of cheddar bunnies in the other hands trying to tame his son who at one year's old was like a hard-headed borderline psychotic version of himself.
[00:01:18] And I also saw this guy in much harsher environments and in some of the most challenging situations.
[00:01:27] I saw him bear the incredibly heavy weight of leading men in combat and also the crushing weight of losing some of those men.
[00:01:44] I still see that weight on his shoulders.
[00:01:52] Can I see it in his eyes?
[00:01:55] And I wish I could take some of it away.
[00:02:01] But I can't.
[00:02:06] And as we learn in the seal teams, we don't complain.
[00:02:16] We shoulder our share of the weight.
[00:02:23] We shoulder our share of the burden and we drive on.
[00:02:31] We don't know if we can get a lift from the top of.
[00:02:38] Seeing him stand up when I needed him to stand up.
[00:02:44] When what I was asking for was more than I could have asked or should have expected from anyone.
[00:02:52] And I watched him time and time and time again move out into the darkness toward the unknown,
[00:03:06] toward the violence toward the enemy whose mission was to tame or to kill him and his men.
[00:03:21] But he went every time he went without fail.
[00:03:28] And his name is Lave Babin.
[00:03:32] And if you want a more thorough background of Lave, you can listen to the other times that he's been on this podcast.
[00:03:41] Use on number 11, number 34, number 65.
[00:03:45] You should listen to those first before you listen to this one.
[00:03:48] You can also read the book that we wrote, it's called Extreme Ownership.
[00:03:51] It's about our experiences in combat and the leadership lessons we learned there.
[00:03:55] But for now, here we are, once again, and Lave, welcome back to the show.
[00:04:04] Thanks for having me on.
[00:04:06] And we had a couple of different options on what we were going to do this time around and tweeted out,
[00:04:11] if anybody has any questions and we got a lot of questions.
[00:04:14] So I know I can answer questions, we'll just say in a really in a very in depth manner from time to time.
[00:04:24] And we got a lot of questions.
[00:04:26] So I, you know, we just took down a bunch of the questions and I'll read through some of them.
[00:04:32] We'll try and burn through a bunch of these questions that we got from everybody.
[00:04:35] Let's get some.
[00:04:36] Ready to get some.
[00:04:38] Like I said, Lave is always ready to get some.
[00:04:40] Stand by the get some.
[00:04:42] For people that don't know what that means and we often put that on social media.
[00:04:46] I don't think people recognize what that actually means.
[00:04:50] So it's like we knew we would say this all the time in combat or in training scenarios.
[00:04:54] When you knew that, I mean, it was about to go down bullets were going to be flying around.
[00:04:58] Exposure could be going off.
[00:05:00] And you hear someone very clearly over the radio just in a real combo is coming up and be like,
[00:05:05] Stand by the get some.
[00:05:07] Yeah.
[00:05:09] So we get a joke about that.
[00:05:13] Yeah, that's, that's a, it's a true statement.
[00:05:17] Right?
[00:05:18] You know you get some.
[00:05:19] But when you get say to that man, you know, when you should be like, you know,
[00:05:22] Stand by the get some.
[00:05:23] And people are like, he's stand by to get some.
[00:05:26] Yeah.
[00:05:27] It's pretty awesome.
[00:05:28] I was on my first deployment and we were driving.
[00:05:32] Driving south from Baghdad and we got ambushed.
[00:05:37] And we were like a five or six vehicle convoy.
[00:05:40] And the ambush hit the tail and I was in, I was in number two vehicle as normal for, you know,
[00:05:46] for, for, tune commander at the time.
[00:05:49] I'm in the number two vehicle, the tail end of the ambush gets ambushed or tail end the
[00:05:55] convoy gets camp ambushed.
[00:05:57] And when I mean, it's very clear it's RPGs are going over the convoy and
[00:06:01] explosions and machine gun fire and it's really obvious we're getting.
[00:06:06] Um, ambushed.
[00:06:07] And what we're on a highway and we're moving fast so we, you know, it's, you know,
[00:06:11] I was like push through.
[00:06:12] You know what I mean?
[00:06:13] Like we didn't stop at all.
[00:06:14] Didn't even hesitate.
[00:06:15] And then we continued on the road and, and it, I asked for the, you know, like,
[00:06:19] upcount from the ramps like upcount.
[00:06:21] And so, you know, I hear like vehicle six is up.
[00:06:24] And vehicle five is up and vehicle four is up and it gets the front and I'm like,
[00:06:29] Roger, we're up.
[00:06:30] Keep rolling.
[00:06:31] And then another, maybe another minute goes by.
[00:06:34] And my, but tune chief, great guy is in the back vehicle rear,
[00:06:39] you know, in the rear vehicle.
[00:06:40] So that's how you break, you know, break it up.
[00:06:42] So if something happens, he's in control there.
[00:06:44] And, and he comes up in the radio and he's like, he's like,
[00:06:48] hey, sir, just, just one less no.
[00:06:51] I mean, we got ambushed.
[00:06:52] You're back here.
[00:06:53] Did you know that?
[00:06:54] And I go like this Roger.
[00:06:56] We got back.
[00:06:58] We had to get laugh about that one.
[00:06:59] But it was pretty good times.
[00:07:01] So awesome.
[00:07:03] Yeah.
[00:07:04] All right.
[00:07:05] Getting to some questions.
[00:07:07] This is a question that actually came very similar question.
[00:07:10] I went in when I had Tony on.
[00:07:12] And most of these questions, because I said these questions are for
[00:07:15] the life coming on the podcast.
[00:07:16] And most of them are directed at you.
[00:07:17] And I'll chime in or whatever if I feel the need.
[00:07:20] But you like that.
[00:07:22] So here we go.
[00:07:23] First one, life.
[00:07:24] How often did you disagree with Jocco's commands?
[00:07:27] And how many times did you actually let him know?
[00:07:30] Also, how did you handle either situation?
[00:07:35] So there you go.
[00:07:38] I disagree with Jocco every minute every day.
[00:07:41] Listen, we actually, we had a, it's a great question.
[00:07:44] And look, Jocco and our different people, we have different views of the world.
[00:07:47] We have, there were, there were times when, you know,
[00:07:51] his job was, your job was strategic.
[00:07:54] And you're looking at the bigger strategic picture.
[00:07:56] My job was tactical.
[00:07:57] I'm looking at the tactical picture.
[00:07:58] Sometimes you can make the tactical decision that could impact the strategic mission.
[00:08:02] And ever, it was very rare though that we ever had any kind of disagreement on those things.
[00:08:06] I think, you know, there were, there were a number of times that when,
[00:08:11] what I always liked about Jocco and I think people look at you and think,
[00:08:15] oh, he's just big and timidating guy.
[00:08:17] And our member, our commanding officer, actually.
[00:08:21] We were talking to him.
[00:08:23] And of course he loved our task in it.
[00:08:25] And he was like, yeah, you guys and bruises.
[00:08:26] He was talking to me and the Delta Potun commander.
[00:08:30] And said it.
[00:08:31] You guys, you got to do a Jocco says, you know, he'll choke you out.
[00:08:35] And we were kind of laughing about that because we were trying to get to every morning
[00:08:38] like, not having choked out by Jocco hundreds of times.
[00:08:40] It's not even a threat anymore.
[00:08:42] But it was, it was never, we never did what you said because it was fear and timidation.
[00:08:49] Or like, we have to do what he says because he's in charge.
[00:08:51] What I always loved about you and your leadership was that I knew that I could push back on
[00:08:55] myself and you were going to listen to me.
[00:08:56] And it was, it was interesting for me to see that as, you know, we built a relationship
[00:09:01] about, I could, I could come in and be like, hey, I think we ought to do this.
[00:09:05] And very rarely would you, you would never say like, no do it this way because it's my way.
[00:09:10] But even very rarely would you say, sometimes you might be like, well, we want to go in this direction.
[00:09:15] Here's why I want to do this.
[00:09:16] But most of the time you would actually just say, hey, we'll talk me through that.
[00:09:20] Okay, what, how's that going to work?
[00:09:22] And you would give me the opportunity and others in the opportunity to come up with a plan and kind of analyze it and look at it and and give it a shot.
[00:09:31] And so that's, that's where I love, always loved about about that.
[00:09:35] I mean, a couple of disagreements that came up, you know, for me, something that we taught at all the time,
[00:09:41] you know, with our business as long front, when we were talking to companies and leadership teams,
[00:09:45] going to the work of cycle, you know, we always talk about people want to hire folks and just kind of let them run and, you know,
[00:09:51] people want to say, hey, give them, give them the opportunity to go out and succeed.
[00:09:55] And a lot of bosses want to kind of, you know, what just, hey, I'm really busy hire someone to experience put them in position.
[00:10:01] You kept really, really tight reigns on us.
[00:10:04] And initially that was super frustrating to me.
[00:10:07] I mean, I, I remember being in our, our Mount Training, military operations, urban training,
[00:10:11] training for folks that don't know what that means where we're, we're in the mock,
[00:10:14] cinder block city and we talked about that on the podcast and talked about that often here for, for other folks at other podcasts, but that was,
[00:10:23] I wanted to plan these things. I'm the Patoon Command or I want to be in charge.
[00:10:26] I remember you, you've seen, hey, we should do this or let's plan it this way, and I remember wanting to kind of push back against that.
[00:10:33] And, and oftentimes, but I recognize like as we're going on, you're actually training me and, and given me the,
[00:10:41] you've done a whole bunch of these operations that I hadn't done any of those operations previously.
[00:10:46] So you were teaching me and mentoring me and, and once we got to the battlefield, you just unleashed us to get after it.
[00:10:53] And a couple of times I do remember some push back where you came up and gave me some direction and, you know,
[00:11:00] where you said, hey, why don't you try this or do that? And one of those times in particular was when I was, you know,
[00:11:06] when I was trying to get, get, I remember a number of times, I want to amount out at, and our, our desert training facility,
[00:11:14] out at what we call land warfare, and I'm trying to get the Patoon, to pull back to position and we're trying to,
[00:11:22] trying to patrol out and you gave me, you told me to actually, you know, stop trying to put, put a bunch of detail information out of the radio,
[00:11:29] like use verbal commands, do it this way, and I, you know, immediately, my ego getting the way I was in,
[00:11:35] it was frustrating because the team wasn't doing what I wanted to do.
[00:11:38] And that's like step number one of the frustration. So my team isn't doing what I wanted to do.
[00:11:43] So automatically my media is kind of starting to get paged and like, you know, the, no one's listening to me.
[00:11:48] So when Jocco comes up to give me some direction of like, hey, you ought to do this.
[00:11:52] My immediate push back is like, no, I'm not going to do that, you know, and I didn't say that, but I, I just, I was like, I kind of bristled a little bit.
[00:11:59] I remember kind of bristling that, and I was like, okay, let me think about it.
[00:12:02] What do we, you know, he hasn't told me wrong before, and I was like, let me give that a shot.
[00:12:07] I was like, okay, I'll do that. Use verbal commands, get everybody moving.
[00:12:10] And you do that over and over and over again throughout multiple training scenarios.
[00:12:13] And then on the battlefield as well, where that's what built up trust.
[00:12:17] So when when you did tell me to do something, I'm going to give it a shot and, and it worked.
[00:12:21] Yeah, it worked.
[00:12:22] It worked.
[00:12:22] You just expand on that a little bit. The verbal command thing is so you get guys that, there's a bunch of people, you know,
[00:12:28] you got, you got a person, we'll just take this case. You got a tune of 16 guys.
[00:12:31] They're in various terrain features. One guy's in a little, in a little, a ravine.
[00:12:36] One guy's up on a little, another guy's behind a shrub. So there's a little bit of dispersion with your troops.
[00:12:41] And you want to get them to do something. You want to get them to fall back or you want to get them to master where you are.
[00:12:46] And maybe the shooting stop or whatever, but you, you want to control all these people at the same time.
[00:12:51] And so what you think is, hey, I'll just get on the radio and I'll tell everyone, hey, everyone.
[00:12:56] I'm back about a hundred meters back. There's a, a little piece of terrain sticking out.
[00:13:01] There's a rock by it. I'm behind that rock. And if you guys start peeling back here to the northwest at about 090 degrees, that's where you're flying me.
[00:13:09] Okay, so now what does that come across like on a transmission for a guy that's shooting a machine gun?
[00:13:16] He, he hears like, got, got, got, got. Come back, got.
[00:13:19] That's what he hears. You know, he anything.
[00:13:21] And, and so, and you've given this long complex direction. And what you really need is, have everyone fall back here.
[00:13:29] Now that's what that's what they need to hear. And so then you do it and you realize that now we have a thing in this hill,
[00:13:37] teams where you pass the command. And so when you hear a loud verbal command, everyone passes it. Now everyone heard it.
[00:13:41] And now everyone comes back to your position.
[00:13:43] But this is the essence of in the book of tree ownership. This is really the essence of simple like it's simple clear communications.
[00:13:48] And that's one of those things that we want you learn it. You know, like, yeah, if I, if I, if I people with my team isn't doing what I wanted to do, not that they don't want to.
[00:13:56] They don't even know what you want to do because you're giving it in such a complex way.
[00:14:00] I, I, I gave that council hundreds of times once I was running the training on the west coast. I gave that council hundreds of times. Like, hey, man, just tell everyone a simple command right now to get him to do something. So that holds true.
[00:14:13] And I'll tell you another situation where you, you kind of disagreed with me. And we, we were working with the company. I'm not going to mention the company's name.
[00:14:21] We were working with the company and there was a scene, like a mid level, but somewhat senior leader.
[00:14:29] And you didn't like him. And there isn't you didn't like him because he wasn't really that confident. He had mess some things up.
[00:14:37] And his whole, his division was suffering a little bit. And you were, you were kind of like, hey, Jocca, we should talk about getting this guy fired.
[00:14:46] Well, it wasn't that he was, it just wasn't that he was competent. His division was suffering. Like they were like, hey, what's the, this guy is dragging us down. This is a major issue.
[00:14:55] And, and I was, we were getting massive negative feedback that was impacting the team.
[00:15:00] So I think you can all demonstrate what you, and even that I discovered. And then probably the leaders like me.
[00:15:11] And this union that only kinda had received confidence.
[00:15:15] That's what was quite panicked.
[00:15:17] But when I go to adversity it becomes a start of getting good expectations.
[00:15:23] So, you know, talking about…
[00:15:25] And I just wanted to take it from my guy who was supposed to be the knowledgeable guy, that was able to grill him into the jurors.
[00:15:29] You know, maybe question what was going on there if you were moved to the key leader from so strategically at that point in the company that individual
[00:15:36] Who was you know again?
[00:15:38] We'll just say incompetent and also unlike he had really really good political and
[00:15:45] relationship connections with
[00:15:48] The we'll say a parent company, but the people that controlled the funding and so we could get rid of this guy
[00:15:55] But all of a sudden all these people that were funding this company there was gonna be problems and
[00:16:01] I was like hey if we get rid of that guy we're gonna cut a lot of relationship chords
[00:16:05] So we let's try and find a way to mitigate as much we can and we we disagreed upon it but
[00:16:13] Basically, you know you fundamentally got the other leader in that division
[00:16:19] To figure out how to work with the guy and got him trained up and then that guy took enough control
[00:16:24] That they mitigated the non-performer kind of out of the picture and it worked out well
[00:16:31] And I think the lesson there is that you know
[00:16:33] Like I mentioned earlier you can win the tactical battle and lose this this strategic
[00:16:38] War and you certainly don't want to do that. I think you got to recognize it when you're whether it's trying to terminating someone or making decisions
[00:16:44] I think that's where we had you know
[00:16:47] You had that strategic picture in mind and I was focused a little more on the on the tactical side
[00:16:50] So you got to you got to keep you can make the right tactical call and can have some real strategic consequences
[00:16:56] You know the cascade and cause you a lot more problems. I think though that the
[00:17:01] My true answer this question on our most fundamental disagreement came on patches and
[00:17:08] That was
[00:17:09] Jaco was understood as seals that we needed to be squirt away
[00:17:14] We wanted to be stormtroopers and tea bruiser. That's what we wanted to we wanted to all look the same
[00:17:18] We wanted to have you know squirt away here cut squirt or a uniforms everybody in the same same year
[00:17:23] And that's hard for seals because seals often one of just kind of where a you know mix and match of uniforms and and
[00:17:29] Kind of whatever gear that you want to look cool straight up long hair appear to all those things
[00:17:33] You recognize we needed to win you do that and and guys can get out of control
[00:17:37] We have all these patches made that are you know that are like look at these cool guy. I got patches all over me and and and that's
[00:17:44] Seals are some of the best you know the biggest offenders that so Jaco was like no patch
[00:17:49] Yeah, and just to expand on this a little bit more but the strategically from the army from the Marine Corps
[00:17:53] The army the Marine Corps when they look at someone that's not in the square to you to square to a uniform
[00:17:56] They think to they think to themselves. Hey, if this guy can't even wear a square to a uniform
[00:18:01] How can he operate out in the battlefield and that's what what they think and good for them because it's a true statement
[00:18:06] If you've got someone that can't mind some some details and looks square to weigh then how can I expect them to do their job well now
[00:18:13] In this in the sealed teams and really in all soft communities. There's some absolute
[00:18:18] Lack City when it comes to uniform requirements. That's why you see pictures of guys doing this
[00:18:24] You know dressing out of uniform and mixing imagine uniforms. It's the way it is and you know what my in my
[00:18:30] In my deepest knowledge. I know that you can have it and this is a classic military quote is you know
[00:18:36] An inspection ready platoon has never passed combat and a combat ready platoon has never passed inspection
[00:18:44] It's it's a commonly known thing that I understand and I get and
[00:18:49] But especially we're new in the battle space. We're just showing up here. We got you know Marines and and
[00:18:56] Army soldiers and senior leadership that we're gonna be working for and I say okay
[00:18:59] We're gonna make a good this is the bait the fundamentally we're gonna make a good first impression
[00:19:02] We're gonna look square to weigh which means we're gonna
[00:19:04] You know have square to weigh here cuts we're gonna blouse our boots and we're gonna wear a
[00:19:09] Normal looking uniform which means we don't have crazy looking patches that that
[00:19:15] Make us look different right cuz that's the thing that you're saying the thing you're saying is look at me. That's what you're saying
[00:19:19] Look at me. I'm cool that's what a patch is it's hey look at me
[00:19:24] I'm special and and and obviously I don't like that attitude and so here we go back to the patches
[00:19:30] So we I mean when you told me we were on board with everything on the same page and we saw out
[00:19:36] I have so many things that certainly me and the Delta Potent Commander with you absolutely and
[00:19:41] But that was I don't know why but for one reason
[00:19:44] We got together. I was like we designed our own patches were like where do you say we patch me and the Delta Potent Commander
[00:19:52] We me and the Delta Potent Commander said we're gonna design some batches for testing in a bruiser and I don't know
[00:19:59] I don't know why if we just had an idea that this was gonna be a historic unit
[00:20:03] This was gonna be something we wanted to be a part of but we felt like we needed
[00:20:06] Tasking the patch and I felt like you secretly wanted us to have them even though you told us not to do it
[00:20:12] So so I was like we designed these patches one of them
[00:20:15] I use the Lordy humongous from the roadbore your
[00:20:19] For one and the other one we had a we had a big calcule and and it was
[00:20:24] So we had these two patches went out we had a maid so we I secretly had them shift. I secretly had them distributed to
[00:20:30] To both Latins and we keep them in our shoulder patch pocket and we be
[00:20:35] So we'd be in a convoy ready to roll out. Jock will come out see everybody off shake hands to everybody
[00:20:40] And we'd be launched on the operation and
[00:20:43] We'd come up over the radio my leading pan out to come up with a random like patches on
[00:20:47] Everyone pull the badges out slap the badges on and then we all
[00:20:50] Though we got busted when there was an embedded reporter with there was an embedded reporter
[00:20:56] With one of the units we were working with and there was some photos of patches so we got busted
[00:21:01] Although you didn't you didn't come down on me hard like that. You just because you mentioned that we had this conversation on text the other day
[00:21:08] I'm I'm actually I just pulled up my phone to read this text to back and forth. We were just talking about
[00:21:15] You were basically saying hey, you know
[00:21:17] You does not forget you didn't want us to wear patches and and then and then I wrote back to you. Hey, don't forget that while I was out
[00:21:23] I would lead disapproving
[00:21:25] Inside I was smiling knowing that a little rebelliousness is an important is important for leaders to possess and
[00:21:32] That a spree decor trumps compliance and uniformity. Oh
[00:21:37] That's an actual text conversation we were having that's kind of jacked up isn't it
[00:21:41] But my point is like you you know obviously it meant something to you and it was bringing the team together
[00:21:47] It's like when you go through boot camp and the drone structures will let you get away with something because they know
[00:21:51] It's reunifying the team and that's what it was for me
[00:21:53] It's like okay and also how much the leadership capital might gonna expand because even though I just made it sound like it was a big deal
[00:21:59] It that and and also we had earned a good reputation
[00:22:03] We it wasn't the first impression anymore
[00:22:04] It was like the impression had been made and the impression was solid and so now it's like oh, yeah
[00:22:09] These guys are these guys. Oh, yeah, they're actually a unit identifying patch
[00:22:13] So we actually and we gave that patch to the brigade commander. Yeah, we departed which was awesome and and I'm very proud to say that
[00:22:20] There's not a whole lot up on the wall in the jocco gym
[00:22:23] But in the garage there, but there is a
[00:22:27] TU bruiser patch
[00:22:28] It's in the Lord you must represent there's a seven echo from my from my echo platoon at team seven
[00:22:34] And there's a sealed team one patch. I mean a sticker
[00:22:36] That's my that's my wall of glory
[00:22:41] Stapled to the wall awesome all right next question. So that's the one question we're 20 minutes deep. You got to like that
[00:22:49] All right next question
[00:22:52] Can you discuss the evolution of echelon front was the company ready for the explosive popularity of extreme ownership?
[00:22:58] What kinds of challenges have you faced?
[00:23:00] We faced all kinds of challenges and the same challenges that that any business faces
[00:23:04] Certainly and you know for for us it's been learned to the fire hose
[00:23:09] It's been it's been an awesome experience. I mean, I think
[00:23:12] Just like any just like our combat experience we would adapt to the battlefield
[00:23:16] We learned we educated ourselves about things that we didn't know about and and and we've grown
[00:23:20] I mean, I don't think anyone could I don't know if we could have predicted just how you know widely disseminated the book would be or
[00:23:28] Or you know the popular things that we're talking about
[00:23:30] We knew they were powerful it's a whole reason we wrote the book. There's a massive demand signal for it and
[00:23:35] And I think you know as we work with companies now through through our company echelon front them and there's just we're able to go and
[00:23:42] deliver
[00:23:43] Some impact to these teams in a way that other people aren't able to do it because most of the folks in that space are it's a feel good thing
[00:23:51] You're out there to talk about a
[00:23:53] You guys you're great and let's harness your inner potential and you know, this kind of stuff and and I laugh when people call us
[00:23:59] motivational speakers because I say look motivational speakers tell you how good good you are and
[00:24:05] We're here to tell you how much you saw better you got to get better if you want to win
[00:24:09] So that's what we do and I think it's the same same way that that that brutally honest assessment of yourself your team
[00:24:14] The same thing that makes you know seal unit successful in the battlefield and other military units is the same thing that we're doing now with our company
[00:24:21] Certainly you know all the challenges of of bookkeeping and and and you know
[00:24:25] The building processes and and pay and taxes and I mean just to you know
[00:24:30] Regulatory environment those things that make it hard for any business launching
[00:24:34] But just like on the battlefield where we can either bitch about the paperwork or we can figure out a way to most
[00:24:40] Of efficiently get it done so that we could actually go accomplish the mission
[00:24:43] Which you instilled in us like hey I can complain about it all day
[00:24:47] I can figure out a way to get this done to make it happen because that's what it requires to do and that's what we've done with our business
[00:24:52] And it's it's been awesome and frankly what I love is working with
[00:24:57] Leaders and so many of the folks that contact us that want to work with us
[00:25:00] They they're already doing well and they want to do even better and it's just so much fun to work with folks who
[00:25:07] Want to just constantly grow and learn and we grow and learn all the time from them. Yeah. Yeah
[00:25:14] I think you hit it all
[00:25:17] Next question
[00:25:19] In battle having the high ground is crucial how do you see this principle apply to the business world and and we have I've answered this question before with the statement
[00:25:29] Take the high ground to the high ground. I'll take you so
[00:25:33] Business world okay. Well tactically
[00:25:35] What do you think why do you the high ground?
[00:25:38] Well, I think that's that's the real question right?
[00:25:40] The why is the high ground important and
[00:25:44] Obviously you know out of thousands of years of military history
[00:25:47] The high ground is always important by the way
[00:25:51] I did have I did have a training instructor a few years ago my my seal team days who we had he said look at your high speed
[00:25:57] Elton and watch and
[00:25:59] And you get get down behind something
[00:26:02] So he was basically telling us like if that thing's going up you're wrong. That's your thing should be going down
[00:26:06] He was he was telling us to take the low ground which was which was kind of laughable
[00:26:10] So out doing thousands of years of military history always take the low ground
[00:26:15] No, don't do that you want to take the high ground the reason is because tactically if you're on the high ground
[00:26:20] You you have got a better shooting position you can shoot down on people who can't hide very well
[00:26:25] Because you you you're above them which is why it was awesome for us to be in and buildings
[00:26:29] And if we could get a three or four story building in this you know in the city of Ramada the urban environment
[00:26:33] It was awesome
[00:26:34] It's no different in the business environment and and what you have to do is just identify the key terrain
[00:26:39] What is the key to right the high ground is key terrain?
[00:26:42] So that that doesn't it doesn't necessarily mean that you know
[00:26:45] You're gonna go climb to the mountain top because that's where you want to be
[00:26:49] But if that ridge line that's on the high ground gives you you know a tackle vanishing on the battlefield
[00:26:53] That's it's the same thing in business world if you're if you're a retailer
[00:26:56] You know, where's that key terrain?
[00:26:58] Where's the intersection that that's that you want to be that's gonna give your business the the best
[00:27:02] You know the best chance to succeed if you're
[00:27:05] You know any space I mean there's there's key terrain that you can identify where you want to be a part of if it's if you're a private equity company
[00:27:12] You're trying to get breaking to some new you know some some new technology or new
[00:27:16] New particular industry that that's that's key terrain
[00:27:19] You need to be focused on that and identify that is critical a wide-sum important and
[00:27:23] And everyone's gonna be gonna be gonna be fine for that and you want to be aggressive you want to maneuver
[00:27:28] Because if you get their first
[00:27:31] You're gonna be a lot better position. It's it's flank or be flanked. We always say you know
[00:27:35] You're maneuvering the enemy other gonna maneuver on you
[00:27:37] So what you don't want to do is wait for somebody else to get in a better position
[00:27:41] And then you actually have to fight your way out of that. It's not good like in jujitsu
[00:27:46] You don't want to wait to someone's gonna mount you that's not a good place to be or take your back
[00:27:49] Right, I want to try to prevent that before you can get there
[00:27:52] And and if you can do that to them first and you're in a much better position
[00:27:55] I think it's no different in the business world. I had it was working with a company the other day and
[00:28:01] Basically what they were saying was that their competitor
[00:28:04] Was lying about them to to as they're trying to close accounts
[00:28:07] They're they're competitive would go in the field and say oh yeah this this the company are this this company
[00:28:13] They don't do it right and they don't have these accounts and they're they're going out of business and everything's bad
[00:28:18] So there's there's their competitors were out there lying about them and
[00:28:21] You know the sales leaders said you know
[00:28:23] I don't I don't want to stoop to their level
[00:28:26] You know and and start throwing lies out there about them or making accusations
[00:28:30] I think that's you know
[00:28:31] I said well no you don't want to take the logo you want to take the high ground and he said well
[00:28:35] Yeah, but at the same time what what are we supposed to do and I said well
[00:28:39] You actually have the most powerful weapon in this fight the weapon that you have is the truth
[00:28:44] You have the you have the truth but you're not getting the truth out there
[00:28:47] I said what do you do when you do close the count? What do you do how do you publicize it? He's the cool we really don't
[00:28:52] And I said well do you do you do a press release when you close a big count? No, we don't do that
[00:28:57] Do you advertise anyway? No, we don't do that. I said so the most powerful weapon you have is the truth and you're not utilizing that weapon
[00:29:02] You need to have a propaganda arm at this company that's gonna go out there and explain
[00:29:09] That the all the wins and what the truth really is and that will be more powerful and then you can maintain the high ground and by the way
[00:29:15] When those other companies are out there line about you and then people find out
[00:29:20] It makes them look even worse
[00:29:22] So they they've broken their trust with with the potential client
[00:29:26] So yeah, always take the high ground always take that ground
[00:29:29] It might not win you the short-term battle in business, right?
[00:29:34] You know you see you see companies you know like a I can sell you this thing right now
[00:29:39] I can I can paint repaint this thing put a fresh cap coat of paint on it and sell it to you
[00:29:44] That's not the high ground, right? That's the low ground because it's gonna it's gonna fail you because it's on what's underneath the hood is crap
[00:29:49] So that might win me you know that one sale
[00:29:52] But what's gonna happen in the long road taking the low ground?
[00:29:55] You're gonna you're gonna put on yelp that you've got a crappy deal and I did you know
[00:29:59] I repaint it something sold it to you and it wasn't worth it and now that
[00:30:03] Repetace is gonna spread and it's not gonna help you if you take the high ground. Hey here's what's going on with this vehicle or whatever your selling
[00:30:10] Take the high ground. It's all the thing about that is is we see so many leaders and some of the most successful people
[00:30:16] We do that recognize how important that is to build relationships and they're they're willing to to lose a sale or we are lose a
[00:30:22] You know to to send someone to a competitor just to just to make sure that person gets exactly what they need and their
[00:30:29] Build-in relationship so that means more business gets sent to them as it was what you started on the time
[00:30:34] It's a strategic win as opposed to a tactical win and that and that's what you've got to be focused on and that's really as a leader
[00:30:40] That's what you got to be looking at you got to be looking at your front line people and making sure that they they're not just out there
[00:30:45] Trying to win every little tactical battle, but they're going backwards strategically
[00:30:48] So keep that in mind. That's why you have to detach that's why you have to stay out of the weeds and when you get in the weeds
[00:30:53] You got to step back out of them because otherwise you lose track of that and you're gonna end up in the low ground before you even recognize it
[00:31:00] All right next question
[00:31:03] How do you control rumors and gossip within an organization?
[00:31:08] That's pretty easy. You just you just talked about being you know getting out there with the truth and you're propagating
[00:31:13] Armed outside your company. It's no different inside your company. You've got to make sure that people
[00:31:19] It's an interesting when you work we work with leaders sometimes not you see people like I don't want to share this with my people
[00:31:24] You know because I don't know what they might think like they're they're thinking yeah
[00:31:28] Something that maybe totally not true they're they're not just sitting there not thinking anything because you're not sharing it with them
[00:31:33] They're coming up to their own conclusions which may be completely false or opposite
[00:31:36] But like we say in the in the in the Navy all the time
[00:31:39] You know perception is reality that becomes reality so you've got to you got to you can defeat the gossip and rumors by actually
[00:31:47] Just sharing the truth be open with people and and and and being first out there with the message
[00:31:52] So people get an understanding and even when horrible bad things go wrong
[00:31:56] Extreme ownership right if if you take ownership for that and say hey listen this happened here's what we're doing to fix it here's what we're doing in turn things around
[00:32:04] It's kind of
[00:32:06] People people people are not gonna lose respect for you in the organization
[00:32:09] They're actually gonna gain respect for years results. We talk about all the time
[00:32:12] So don't be afraid to do that again just get the message out there and and be transparent and talk to folks
[00:32:24] If you don't tell people what's going on they're gonna make up their own ideas of what's going on and the thing that I have to
[00:32:32] I have to we we have to we have to take this just a little bit further, right? Just a little bit further
[00:32:39] Because we talk about transparency right and that word gets thrown around all the time and
[00:32:45] Of the idea that you're just gonna you that the idea that you're just gonna tell everyone exactly what's going on and
[00:32:50] That sounds great and it's okay. I'm a fully transparent leader
[00:32:54] And I'm gonna tell everyone's going on but there's times where you actually don't want to do that there's times where you have to
[00:33:00] Manoeuvre and you have to be tactful and some of the things that you might tell someone
[00:33:04] Actually is not the right thing to do now. I'm I'm I I'm not saying we're we're gonna be dishonest with our people
[00:33:10] I'm not saying that and I'm saying that transparency is great thing, but I mean just on a personal level
[00:33:16] if
[00:33:17] Laves it works in for me and
[00:33:20] He's not doing he's doing something horrible is the best way to go about that
[00:33:25] To fully true full transparency is hey, life you're doing horrible at this is that the best way to do it in front of that
[00:33:31] The entire in front of the right is that is that it's full transparency right? Hey, I'm fully transparent
[00:33:35] Okay, everyone welcome to the meeting today by the way
[00:33:37] I just wanted to point out that left Mrs. Numbers again and he's a loser
[00:33:41] That might be what I'm thinking that's fully transparent. Hey guys, just beat and I knew I've less to write just being transparent
[00:33:47] Laves and it left the loser. He missed his numbers again and you know what I'm actually thinking about firing him just
[00:33:52] He said anyone was wondering so that's what I'm trying to wait to close the business Friday did I do a good job
[00:33:58] Right, so so let's not get carried away right? You know what is the smart way the smart ways to maneuver the smart ways to say okay
[00:34:05] Laves not doing what he wants what he should be doing if I go and accuse him of failing what's his reaction going to be how is it
[00:34:13] so
[00:34:15] What I do instead instead I go I
[00:34:17] Want to take ownership of it and so instead I say hey, life you know
[00:34:21] Hey, it comes it like come to come to come on off. So I want to talk to you about a couple things
[00:34:25] So he comes my office or not in a public place and now it's hey, life
[00:34:29] Hey, man, I noticed that you you know you you missed your numbers and I'm thinking that maybe
[00:34:33] I'm not giving you the kind of support that you need to get where you need to be is there anything that else that you need for me
[00:34:39] So that you can win again inside sure
[00:34:42] I'm thinking life you pathetic loser you missed your numbers to get right?
[00:34:47] But I'm not gonna do that so the full transparency thing I get it and it makes sense
[00:34:55] But we do have to
[00:34:57] Consider the tertiary and the secondary interchier effects of the things that we say especially as a leader
[00:35:03] You what you say is a lot of impact as a leader and sometimes I see leaders they make a little off the cuff for mark about something
[00:35:08] You know, oh that won't matter. Oh
[00:35:10] Oh, okay, so it doesn't matter so so this little thing you know hey, hey boss we want to get this this task done by this date
[00:35:18] Is it still important?
[00:35:20] I doesn't matter. Oh, okay, so it doesn't matter. So what I was working on for last month and a half doesn't matter. Okay cool great
[00:35:24] I was fully transparent
[00:35:26] So just be careful use tat use your brain. Yeah, that's that's 100% correct
[00:35:32] I think you know what I was trying to explain in the in the first situation. I mean
[00:35:35] I was having a conversation with a leader that we work with who was you know telling me that
[00:35:42] There was a key leader in his team that didn't want to share with any of his key leaders that
[00:35:46] they you know
[00:35:48] They they're the
[00:35:50] He didn't want to share with the key leaders that they were there were haven't has haven't some issues
[00:35:54] Having some dire strengths wonder you know get into a point where they're wondering hey
[00:35:58] I don't know if we're gonna make payroll
[00:36:00] You know a few months from now if we don't turn these things around
[00:36:03] But I don't want to share that with them because I don't want them to panic and when I when I heard that I was like
[00:36:10] What kind of panic are they gonna have when they find out? Yeah, they can't make payroll
[00:36:15] But no one told them about it and they thought everything was great so the pan is gonna be a hundred times worse
[00:36:20] Yeah, and that's that's the kind of transfer. I'm talking about what you're like listen
[00:36:23] You need to go and have a direct conversation to say guys here's where we're at yeah, and that should be something to help get them in gear
[00:36:30] I'd be like listen we have got to we've got to hit these numbers. We've got to get things going again
[00:36:34] We've got to turn performance around or this is where we're gonna be next quarter if we don't do that and I think those
[00:36:40] That's the kind of thing I'm talking about where you're not keeping the secrets is not hurting you out because by the way
[00:36:46] Everyone knows the numbers right so they know they're already probably know your entire strengths and they're thinking well
[00:36:50] I better find a backup job and they're gonna leave and now you're an even war straight
[00:36:54] So yeah, absolutely you don't need to hide information from from the team all right
[00:37:00] You know what we actually have like a few questions on the master that people asked
[00:37:07] one of them was
[00:37:09] One of them was why should I come to the master?
[00:37:12] What do you think?
[00:37:14] Why should you come to the master?
[00:37:18] By the way the master in case you don't know the master's a leadership
[00:37:21] Event is it seminar gathering a gathering oh, okay?
[00:37:28] I like it get over that leaders so the masters of a leadership gathering where we get together and we
[00:37:35] Talk about leadership and we have them twice a well this one we're having twice a year
[00:37:40] But anyways
[00:37:41] Why should someone come to the master what do you think?
[00:37:46] What I love about the master is
[00:37:48] Well, you have to understand that we talk to
[00:37:53] Hundreds of we've we've actually worked with we talked a thousands of leaders over the last
[00:37:57] Six years that we've had this company as long front work with hundreds of companies and about every industry
[00:38:02] You can imagine and we speak it a lot of leadership conferences we speak at them all the time
[00:38:07] And there is nothing like the master there just isn't anything out there like the muster nothing even comes close
[00:38:14] And the reason I love it
[00:38:16] I'm gonna I I I just get super excited to be there and be a part of that stuff and I even use words like magical
[00:38:23] to describe it on previous podcasts which I took some heavys for took a lot of heavys for out there was pretty much
[00:38:28] There were there was a pretty good like Disney Disney memes
[00:38:32] Disney memes going there that was pretty good but the the reason the master is so amazing is
[00:38:36] It's just different from anything else that that we do and I think when I think about what really makes the master different
[00:38:41] It's the the people that are there it's the content that we're talking about and it's the impact that it has and you know
[00:38:48] So who comes on the monster the reason that's so awesome is that there are leaders from all over the place and
[00:38:55] These leaders are
[00:38:56] Hell bent on dominating their universe. I mean these are people that are there they're in the game
[00:39:02] And then from every type of business every type of industry
[00:39:05] I mean we have entrepreneurs we have senior executives from from major companies
[00:39:08] We have mid level managers we have frontline leaders and we have people who really aren't even in a leadership position
[00:39:14] Maybe with no direct reports, but are aspiring to be that way and grow and learn
[00:39:19] We get we get police and firefighters and other law enforcement officers
[00:39:24] Members of the military I mean they're serving out there on our front lines of the home front and and abroad
[00:39:29] And these are the most committed people I've ever met you know it's it's it's
[00:39:33] One way to quantify this or when when we're at the monster the like the hotel staff
[00:39:41] Well, we'll come up and they'll be like oh my god
[00:39:44] This is crazy because for instance the doors to open to actually get in the morning of the monster
[00:39:50] They open at eight o'clock right or it's like a 7th 750 or 745 because it starts at eight
[00:39:56] 745 the doors open up and most I mean like you said we go to these conference all time everyone's listening
[00:40:01] Been to some kind of conference and it's you know people are meandering around
[00:40:04] They don't really care at the monster. It's like the doors open at 745 everyone's out in the hallway
[00:40:11] We're out in the hallway hanging out with everyone at you know seven o'clock and that's after
[00:40:17] We do a 445 PT in the morning we do because we do a little get some and that's another thing like the hotel people
[00:40:23] We're clearing it with hotel. We're just letting them know like hey, there's gonna be a large gathering of people in
[00:40:27] In front of the hotel in the morning and they're like well, what time? And we're like oh 445 and they're they say well
[00:40:32] Like how many people or like well? There's 450 people here so there's gonna be about 450 people here and sure enough
[00:40:39] There it is and that's what the whole monster's like oh we say
[00:40:43] Hey, we're gonna restart in 10 minutes and everyone goes out and they come back in in 10 minutes
[00:40:47] Everyone's seated ready to rock and all so that's that's the and that's it's funny to hear that from an outside perspective
[00:40:52] Because we're in it, but the hotel people always make comments about they say hey we've never
[00:40:58] You know, Kyle say hey I've been I've been running conferences here for 22 years
[00:41:02] I've never seen a group of people like this so that that to me shows you what kind of people show up at the
[00:41:08] Master when the end when the door is open it's just bum rush in there everyone wants to be in that front row
[00:41:13] Yeah, and gays so they can ask and not just so they can
[00:41:16] You know, so they can actually ask questions so they can actually engage with us and that's what I love about those folks
[00:41:22] I mean they just they're not there to feel good about themselves
[00:41:25] Right they're there to take a hard look in the mirror and and learn and grow and get better and and and so they can better and
[00:41:33] Be more effective leaders so they can lead and win in their teams whatever they happen to be doing now
[00:41:38] So you just kind of talk about the the other question was a school comes the monster and it's a really every type different type of leader
[00:41:43] The another question that we got about the monster is what do we talk about with the monster?
[00:41:52] For
[00:41:53] What that that's the other piece that I really like about it is is content right it's it's content that
[00:41:59] We talk about it and of course I love telling more stories as you all know from this in this podcast
[00:42:04] We like talking about worst stories we like talking about our time in the teams and even when you just you put that photo up there
[00:42:09] of you know of us and Ramadhi from back in the day and and I just it just brings back great memories
[00:42:16] I mean those will always be
[00:42:19] Some of the absolute best times of my life certainly some of the worst times of my life as well
[00:42:25] But but mostly some of the absolute best times of my life and and so we get to talk about that
[00:42:30] But not just in a way that's that's a cool story, but it has impact and I think taking the taking the combat leadership lessons
[00:42:35] We talk about from extreme ownership and applying them directly to you know to people's lives and what they do and how to overcome their challenges
[00:42:45] That's what it's about it's it's super engaging and for us, you know for for me and jog it this isn't a
[00:42:52] The standard leadership conference where there's like 40 different speakers and the the main folks kind of get up there and spend a few hours
[00:42:58] I'm a weird where they're the whole time and where they're to engage with leaders
[00:43:01] It's me it's Jaco it's Dave Burke it's JP D'Neil from our excellent front team
[00:43:07] We're there where the guys on stage and even during the breaks were talking to leaders that are coming up and asking questions
[00:43:12] We're engaging with them no green in Q and a no green there isn't a green room
[00:43:16] There isn't someplace where hide behind the curtain. There isn't somewhere in the back where life is getting a cucumbers put on his eyes
[00:43:24] Take a load off sir
[00:43:26] Sipping a sipping my Jaco white to you. Yeah, look and that's you know these these folks are there to get their questions answered and to ask hard questions
[00:43:35] The thing that you really we really get granular on a lot and that's that's what it is you're taking like you understand the principles
[00:43:43] It's like it's like learning a
[00:43:46] Jitsu move from
[00:43:49] One person and they teach you a fundamental basic move and you're like okay understand that and then
[00:43:54] Compared to okay now you're gonna get a private lesson like that's like in a class, right?
[00:43:59] You hey, this is the alarm lock then you get a private lesson with someone that goes in and adapts the technique to your body style
[00:44:07] To the opponents that you're facing the adjustments that you need to make that's the kind of granularity we get because the
[00:44:13] The more you see these different angles and the other great thing is because with all these different people that you got there
[00:44:17] And we do group exercises
[00:44:19] We're now you're sitting down and we purposely don't want people to sit with with industries that they already work with so in one group
[00:44:26] You'll get a CEO you'll get a firefighter you'll get a
[00:44:32] Start-up business owner you'll get a mid-level manager and you'll get it some you know
[00:44:36] Red regular corporate EVP and they'll all be sitting at the same table and
[00:44:41] We'll give them a problem we'll give them a task and they'll come up with a solution and they'll relate it to how it affects their lives
[00:44:47] They're business and when you see stuff from different angles like that and you're all applying
[00:44:52] We're all speaking the same language because everyone there's obviously read the book
[00:44:55] I really understand's that every understands fundamentally what the principles are
[00:44:57] But now we're getting to see how they impact people's businesses and lives and leadership roles
[00:45:03] From all these different perspectives and it just makes you that much better. That's why during these exercises
[00:45:09] Like I'll also go come to float around to these different tables and listen, but the first table and I'll get to I'll be like
[00:45:14] Oh, man, these guys are you're I'm sitting there learning because you got like I said
[00:45:17] You got a firefighter that's explaining to a CEO what you do in a situation where your team has
[00:45:24] Decided that they're not gonna fall this procedure anymore and they have good reason why they don't want to
[00:45:30] Like it's one thing when you're when your team doesn't fall the procedure and you say hey
[00:45:34] You got to fall this procedure and you and they say well why and you say you explain it to him and they go
[00:45:38] Okay, that makes sense, but what about when you tell them to fall the procedure and
[00:45:41] And they have a reason that actually makes sense then what are you gonna do?
[00:45:45] Well, that's what you learn at that that the monster that's where you make the progress
[00:45:49] So that's good one last question that we got about the the monster is what kind of impact do you see
[00:45:58] From people that have been to the monster the impact is is obvious in that the number of people
[00:46:06] Who are there that are talking about how they just got promoted?
[00:46:10] You know, are they they just got put in this in this position of greater responsibility and and authority
[00:46:17] On their teams are they've been recognized for their exceptional performance or the folks who've come
[00:46:21] Come back from that and we hear about on a social media or reach out to us via email or come back to a monster
[00:46:26] Talk about that from what they you know what would it happen to them previously the number of leaders who
[00:46:31] Come and and see what we're doing and bring their teams, you know, that's what's pretty awesome
[00:46:35] I mean that to me when a when a CEO
[00:46:38] From a company comes checks out what we're doing and brings 25 of his team members back
[00:46:44] To be a part of that because he recognizes the impact that can have
[00:46:48] To his team and we'll have and it's it's just it's awesome to see that I mean these are the most
[00:46:53] Again the most committed people you could ever be around and they just they leave there with the knowledge to directly apply
[00:46:58] Things to solve problems and they learn from us they learn from each other just as you said
[00:47:03] And part of that too. I think is a recognition that these kinds of problems that I'm having
[00:47:09] Are not unique to me they're not unique to the market that I'm in they're not unique to my industry
[00:47:13] But their leadership problems and they and they apply everywhere
[00:47:17] And I'm trying to get a diverse group of people to focus their efforts to and mutually support one another
[00:47:23] A accomplish a mission just like everybody else in every other industry in in the in the business world as a first responder
[00:47:30] The military doesn't matter. It's the same thing and these same techniques apply everywhere and it just
[00:47:36] That's why it's awesome. I love the monster and and I I can't wait. I can't wait to meet those folks
[00:47:42] And and that's why so many people come back again and again and it's just it's just an awesome event
[00:47:48] It's the best thing that they were a part of and frankly if you don't want to have that good look in the mirror
[00:47:53] It's hard looking to merit yourself and have answers some tough questions about where you can do better
[00:47:57] You probably shouldn't come because it's not for you. It's it's for people who are our eager to
[00:48:03] Destroy their competition and dominate the universe and that starts with looking at themselves and taking ownership and solving problems
[00:48:10] So they can win yeah
[00:48:13] It's it's interesting because if you think about it
[00:48:15] I was talking about this yesterday like every problem that you have in an organization
[00:48:21] Is going to be solved by leadership that's it that's it that's what it's going to get solved by every problem that is in an organization
[00:48:26] It's going to be solved by leadership. I don't care if it's because you miss numbers. I don't care if you got bad process
[00:48:31] I don't care if you got wrong people in wrong positions
[00:48:33] All those problems are all about leadership because if you got a bad process
[00:48:37] There's a leader that's allowing that process to be in place if you've got bad people then there's a leader that's not
[00:48:43] Either training those people are getting rid of those people and if your P and L is upside down
[00:48:47] There's a leader that is not paying attention to the numbers
[00:48:49] So all these problems are going to be leadership problems. So if you want to improve your business
[00:48:53] Well, then what you need to do is improve your leadership
[00:48:55] Now I will say this as well. I just got to make like a little caveat here
[00:48:59] Because you just talked about the value of it if you're out there in the world and
[00:49:03] You can't afford to come to the master which I understand the master's expensive it costs us a lot to put together
[00:49:08] I had somebody hit me up like hey
[00:49:11] It sounds like you care about more about making money
[00:49:13] I was like no, no, no, we we definitely want to make money
[00:49:16] That's what that's what we are business and we need to make money and we need to pay our team
[00:49:20] And so yeah, we are we're gonna make money and the master's expensive it costs a lot of money if you can afford to come to the master
[00:49:27] Don't come to the master if you can't don't go out and borrow money to come to the master no you you're not
[00:49:33] You know don't skip a mortgage payment so you can come to the master. That's not a good idea
[00:49:37] What you do is you
[00:49:39] Implement some financial discipline you start saving money you put it together and you can come to the next master
[00:49:44] By the way
[00:49:45] If you can afford the master you can get a book called extreme ownership
[00:49:49] It costs 16 97 on Amazon. That's fine. We this podcast is free. There's
[00:49:56] 400 something hours of us talking about this kind of thing so you can do that
[00:50:01] Like I said
[00:50:02] Wait if you can come to the master that's when you're gonna get basically a private jujitsu lesson
[00:50:07] You're gonna learn really granular things you're gonna get the interaction face to face
[00:50:11] You're gonna get to ask the specific questions about your world and you're gonna interact with people that are on the same path as you that's awesome
[00:50:16] If you can come come, we'll see you at the master. That no green room thing
[00:50:23] And we've talked about that before but that's that's a big deal. That's a bigger deal than it might seem
[00:50:28] Because you know how like I you said like okay you have a Q and a part or
[00:50:33] You know like you have a specific question like hey that was cool what you just said but what about you know like some people have questions
[00:50:39] So during the break
[00:50:41] When most times like at these conventions or whatever they got the you know the people they'll they'll say they're what they have to send
[00:50:47] And they'll go and they'll disappear straight up this thing. You're gonna come or something. Yeah, whatever grapes whatever and
[00:50:53] But here it's like people like hey that question that I had now I can go run and go go grab labor
[00:50:59] Dock or whatever and ask it like personally. Yeah, it's what we have when during the break
[00:51:04] Late for night we're on stage. Yeah, the break we say okay take a break come back in 12 minutes. We step down off the stage
[00:51:11] And we stand right there and people just come and ask us more questions and we can you talk and and sometimes
[00:51:16] Somebody asked such a good question
[00:51:17] We're like bring it back and we're back on stage and say hey someone just asked this question
[00:51:21] Here's the question. It's a great question. It's a whole time. Yeah, all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even look
[00:51:25] I mean the and this would happen to me a lot for some reason
[00:51:28] I think I know well I guess I kind of know a little bit of a common ask you the leadership question always okay game like in the hallway
[00:51:33] You know, I think that's the thing to do and that's the choice
[00:51:36] And you want to just kind of choose a little bit
[00:51:39] That's I was gonna say that's one of the other primaries to come to muster's echo Charles is gonna be there
[00:51:43] And I want of these days are gonna get you on stage for a keynote presentation sure and it's gonna be awesome
[00:51:50] You're gonna be right right in your comfort zone
[00:51:52] I'm getting flanked
[00:51:54] All right
[00:51:55] Moving on those are the three questions about the monster, but they got asked so here
[00:51:59] Knowing what you know about war and the teams if you could go back in time what would you have done differently
[00:52:10] Man, I wish I could go back in time
[00:52:13] Day Birken hour doing an event
[00:52:15] Early this week and
[00:52:18] He was he he said you know, I'm glad I'm not a Romadi. I know, Dave probably wish he was a Romadi a 100%
[00:52:24] I would go there right now. Let's go
[00:52:27] and look it's
[00:52:29] What I would do differently is the recognition that
[00:52:33] We were super aggressive we took a lot of risk
[00:52:38] What I would do differently is I would actually be even more aggressive. I would be a hundred times more aggressive
[00:52:44] I would be putting up you know a
[00:52:46] Concept of the operations brief for your for your approval to send up the chain to swim across the river and
[00:52:53] Hit targets and and you know put in some cyber overwatches and just
[00:52:57] Completely ruin the bad guys program going on in South Central my when they had complete freedom movement before they had any
[00:53:04] Expectation that we could be there before you back get to us and I think
[00:53:07] They would never see a common which means that we would have more impact and it would actually be safer for us
[00:53:13] Because they wouldn't be expecting it so they would probably hammers, but we we recognized that we could get away with a lot more
[00:53:19] You know then then we could and looking back on it. I just
[00:53:22] When you when you come into an area and they're like hey don't go in there you're all gonna get killed
[00:53:25] You you want to be cautious you want to you don't want to just jump into things you want to mitigate
[00:53:30] Risk you can control certainly
[00:53:32] But we recognize we could get away with a lot more
[00:53:35] That then we thought we could and and more often they're not bring bring guys at home
[00:53:38] And of course that's the one thing I would change obviously if I could change if I would trade places with
[00:53:43] Mark Lee and Ryan Joe in my opportunity in a second
[00:53:46] I trade places with Mike Montzure and Delta 2 in a second and I know wish I could do that and I can't but that is the that is what I would change
[00:53:56] But I certainly would if we could go back there again
[00:53:59] We would be even more aggressive and we'd have even more impact
[00:54:03] There's a term that that they used to say in the teams. I don't know if you ever heard it
[00:54:07] You probably did when we would be doing special reconnaissance training and guys would say trust your camouflage
[00:54:13] Did you ever hear that expression?
[00:54:15] I don't I don't believe so so what it was was when you got good at putting your camouflage together
[00:54:21] You could really get aggressive in getting up and observing a target
[00:54:25] Because if you trust your cam if you've done a good job with your cammy paint your gilly suit and and putting yourself together
[00:54:32] Well the enemy's not gonna be able to see you but it's really weird to be you know
[00:54:36] 40 meters from a target that you're looking at then there's a guy walking around and you feel completely naked like they can see but they can't see you at all
[00:54:45] They can't see you at all and so it takes some time to learn to trust your camouflage
[00:54:50] And I think you know obviously hindsight is 2020 and when you look back at your body like
[00:54:56] You look back and you think yourself we could have done this and we could have done that we could have gotten closer to that target
[00:55:00] We could have done more things because our hindsight's 2020 and also we learned over time to trust our camouflage
[00:55:05] And the longer we were there the the the more aggressive you know operations took place
[00:55:11] But yeah, let's hindsight's 2020 isn't it?
[00:55:16] That it is
[00:55:19] Okay
[00:55:22] Advice on restarting your life after the military
[00:55:29] I think you just got to figure out what you want to do yeah, you got to figure out what you haven't even knew monster that I tell people now
[00:55:33] It's a find your next mission and that's what you got to do and I got I got really lucky because
[00:55:39] We got right into this and you you the same thing like we we went right into a new mission and so any time to kind of
[00:55:47] Wander round and look around and figure out which direction to go and by the way
[00:55:51] When you're wandering on and looking around to find out which direction to go
[00:55:53] You're gonna get pulled into the direction and that direction is probably gonna be the path of least resistance. It's not gonna be a good path
[00:55:59] We certainly know it's not gonna be deep
[00:56:01] So when you come out when you get out of the military man have a mission figure out which one next mission is gonna be
[00:56:07] But I I would disagree with you there and that it wasn't that we'd got lucky right in that and that if you think about what we're doing now
[00:56:13] This is what we like to do and this is what we we we
[00:56:17] We brought lessons back from money that we
[00:56:20] We translated and gave to the next generation of seals and and saw the impact that was ever
[00:56:25] I mean when you when you came back from out you could have had any any job that you wanted to
[00:56:28] And you said I want to go run training attachment because I want to make sure that the the next
[00:56:35] Seals that are coming through this training and going forward to places like a brakjai
[00:56:37] Afghanistan are ready
[00:56:39] You chose to do that and and I was running the training program that that's I would I didn't want to be anywhere else
[00:56:44] And that it was awesome and I recognize how powerful that was and the kind of reward it brought to me to see
[00:56:49] These young officers go out there that I put the training and succeed on incredibly difficult
[00:56:54] Dangerous battlefields in different areas that that I've been to so you know we we took that and recognized like
[00:56:59] This is something that that that that is useful it has impact and and that we can do for others
[00:57:05] So I think that's it was absolutely not the pack of least resistance and I got you know
[00:57:10] We had job offer offers that people thought people thought I was completely crazy a
[00:57:15] Buddy mine was like come work for me
[00:57:17] We'll pay you know this huge salary that was you know triple what my navy salary was and I said
[00:57:23] I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna start my own business. I mean he looked at me like I was nuts
[00:57:26] Yeah, we were talking about yesterday because we weren't making a lot of money at the beginning of echelon front now
[00:57:33] Yeah, we we we had to put together we were writing checks and paying for
[00:57:37] Things and traveling on our own dime to to go and talk to companies and for free for free
[00:57:43] For almost nothing yeah, and I think that's and that's really it is is finding your mission like this is what I can do
[00:57:49] And this is this is what I like to do and and I'm gonna figure out a way to do something that is useful at impacts people
[00:57:57] And I think that's that's where it is finding that next mission for sure
[00:58:01] Next question I like this question this this question
[00:58:05] Made me think that whoever wrote this question has a good feel for like kind of the whole thing here
[00:58:10] So the question was
[00:58:12] This question to life what's jocos most impactful strategy on you?
[00:58:17] When he says
[00:58:20] Lath gets real fired up
[00:58:24] Definitely someone who's been listening a lot of podcasts or maybe he's coming to the bus to hurt us speak or talk before because jocot talks about
[00:58:31] Angry lady life and really I can get angry. That's like hothead, right? Basically be a little bit of a hothead
[00:58:37] I can definitely be a hothead. You can be a lot of bit of hothead sometimes. I can't and usually I mean
[00:58:42] I I
[00:58:43] I
[00:58:43] I like to think that it takes me
[00:58:44] I don't immediately spin up all things, but once I get spun up I get I get a really spun up and
[00:58:50] I don't know if you disagree with no, no, I was gonna ask you if is is is house having two kids
[00:58:57] For sure that that teaches you some
[00:59:00] Temper control big time big time and it and particularly when you know when when there's there's timelines
[00:59:05] You're trying to meet and we're trying to run a business. I don't have time
[00:59:07] They don't
[00:59:09] The timeline is now I want some crayons now and what I would love is I love spending time with my son and
[00:59:17] My daughter and they're awesome kids and particularly my son now he's three is old enough to count
[00:59:20] You know, he's in the game. Yeah, we'll go. We'll go somewhere and do something fun or
[00:59:25] We're hanging out and it doesn't matter if that's five minutes long or five hours long like when it's time to leave
[00:59:30] It's level 19 meltdown every time, right and he's
[00:59:35] I'm waiting for the time is like dad. Thank you for the time
[00:59:37] This really fun doesn't happen so so yeah that that actually instills and you some
[00:59:43] Spatience some patience, but it's the we always talk about red flags and that's something that I learned from you
[00:59:49] And that and I know you were looking at for me to see like oh some red flags are going off red flags
[00:59:54] Are those things that as you talked about often you recognize
[00:59:58] In yourself like okay, I'm getting spun up right now
[01:00:00] I need to take a step back here and and and throttle back
[01:00:04] I knew throttle back or because I'm getting spun up so so with kids I got a look at it as you know what this is good
[01:00:10] Because because I know that some of it's in my nature that I can get spun up so with kids
[01:00:14] I got to relish that opportunity to say this is a training opportunity for me to be outside my comfort zone to say you know what
[01:00:21] I feel myself getting spun up. I'm gonna practice attaching and spinning down and not not reacting in a way that I might otherwise
[01:00:27] Would have and I think it's a great. It's a great tool there really for me
[01:00:31] I think what the when Jocco would sense that in me and we talked about a number of times when that's happened here on the podcast
[01:00:38] That I was getting spun up, you know, we talked about you know previous
[01:00:43] In previous podcast about cancel the hop at some of these things where I you know, I just I would get fired really and get angry and and you
[01:00:51] What most people would have done that situation what I probably would have done to a subordinate leader is get is
[01:00:57] Get spun up as well and like you yell at me now
[01:01:00] I'm gonna yell at you, but a little bit louder exactly and I was gonna ramp up and it becomes like the Battle of Wills and how you
[01:01:07] Hand you handled that except as well with me was generally you would you would never get spun up you would just
[01:01:12] Be very calm your response and you would ask questions or in some cases you would just start chuckling like
[01:01:19] Laughing about it like hey, then you get spun and not not in a way that's condescending you're not like
[01:01:23] Oh, look at you you idiot. Yeah, it was in a way you want a laughing people when they're getting mad. Yeah, it was in a way that hey man
[01:01:30] Take it easy. Yeah, just take it easy and then you start laughing and it was and then it just that was something that was
[01:01:36] But would you ask questions in a way that we're hey? Well
[01:01:40] Why do you think this or and those think that was powerful as well to me that wasn't it wasn't
[01:01:45] Like hey, why are you doing this or why won't you listen to me and and it was that always allowed me to kind of take a step back and recognize
[01:01:51] Okay, so so I think you you got to make sure you see a red flag at somebody else
[01:01:55] They're getting spun up and they're really emotional you need to be unemotional and you need to you need to check your ego to
[01:02:00] To do an end around I'd never see anybody do that before you did exceptionally well
[01:02:06] Against me and and I learned a lot from that because I recognize like I got to do that better
[01:02:10] I didn't never it just doesn't benefit you from getting spun up and angry and and I'll tell you one thing that's
[01:02:16] Another little thing that I noticed that I do for sure is
[01:02:18] If someone comes at me and they're super mad about something
[01:02:23] I can't just be a hundred percent calm
[01:02:26] Because if if you come in the room and you go chocolate scrap the
[01:02:31] We're getting told to do this thing over in this total crap we should be able to do this and if I go
[01:02:37] Leave just calm down. It's not that big of a deal like right there
[01:02:40] I've already taken right because you're like what are you talking about? I try that with my wife
[01:02:44] Jenna yeah, I'm saying it doesn't work. Yeah, the opposite what you have is you have to be you have to show some
[01:02:51] We'll call it a diminished reflection of the emotion that they're showing you want to you want to take a little off of it
[01:02:58] But you know oh my oh my
[01:02:59] Late for you series they're telling us to do the oh man
[01:03:02] That's that's that's crap alright. Let's let's find out what's going on so now instead of being against you now all of a sudden
[01:03:06] I'm on your side I've calm down a little bit
[01:03:08] I brought you down a little bit but you at least recognize that I'm on your side because if I just if I just say
[01:03:13] Rave calm down getting mad is not going to help
[01:03:15] Oh, they're like you're going to get even matter or if I say you need to think about what they're saying
[01:03:20] No, no, I need to join your side first
[01:03:22] One time on your side now we can talk and we can move through the problem effectively
[01:03:27] So you might want to just show a little diminished reflection of the part of you know if someone's really sad about something
[01:03:33] Okay, you know you can't just be like hey, it's not that big of a deal like you know I got you're I got kids right I got I got teenage girls and you know they get sad about stuff
[01:03:41] Um, and I can't just you know I've tried it before like don't worry about that
[01:03:46] It will mean nothing in three years. I've done that but by the time you graduate high school you even think about that anymore
[01:03:52] Stop how does that work it doesn't work good because you realize that that's the whole world to them
[01:03:57] So you know instead you got to say oh man I can't believe that happened. You know that's that's that's sad
[01:04:02] You know, but the good thing is here's some good points about it and maybe you know what I mean? So just don't
[01:04:07] Be completely emotionless because then the person can't relate to the you and if they can't relate to you
[01:04:13] You're not gonna be able to talk about it if you can't talk about it. You're not gonna make any progress on the subject
[01:04:19] Careful with that one all right
[01:04:22] Wanna hear more HDH and Vegas?
[01:04:24] Do we talk about the HDH hands on one of the other podcasts? Yeah, we talked about it
[01:04:29] So $100 on a podcast Vegas listen to podcast 11 if you want to hear about
[01:04:33] Mark Lee's son our shenanigans and Vegas we did have
[01:04:35] There were there were a couple good stories of eggs. We you know, we that was a crazy boom
[01:04:40] Dog with a chip of one of them that I did
[01:04:42] Remember well was we had this giant convoy of humbys and we were coming up to a major intersection just off the Vegas trip
[01:04:51] Red light because we were driving to several knows driving we drove the the home V's to arrange to do work
[01:04:57] up in that area
[01:04:59] Is it an air force range no no
[01:05:01] Is there for yes, so it's a nellus range where they do training up there and we had taken the humvies from one base on
[01:05:08] civilian roads to another base and we'd spent the day training there and now it was time to come back to base
[01:05:13] So we're back on civilian roads again in a in a convoy of humvies what five trucks probably
[01:05:19] So five humvies and we had done a drill where we had the we I was always big on you train how you fight
[01:05:26] Right, so that means if we're driving home V's guess what we're doing
[01:05:28] We're mounting weapons we're gonna we're gonna be ready to get after it if we have to not that we're gonna have to get after it Vegas
[01:05:34] But we're gonna we're gonna test things because if you're not used to swing in that gun around up in the up in the turret
[01:05:39] Then you're not used to it so you got a practice so we were basically in
[01:05:44] In full kind of kit I think we actually had the whole task in it
[01:05:48] So I think we had like eight or ten humbys. It was it was a big big big big hum boy
[01:05:51] But yeah, so we come up to we're coming up to a red light start to turn yellow and the lead the lead navigator
[01:05:57] You know, this is a major intersection, you know two four lane roads that are coming up to
[01:06:03] He's he gives the command blow through which means that we're just if you get you're an ambush and people are shooting at you
[01:06:10] And you're just gonna keep rolling and he says blow through
[01:06:13] So we literally have the entire convoy behind him like running this red light in a major major intersection
[01:06:19] Yeah, I was like we're gonna be standing tall from yeah
[01:06:21] This is not going we don't want to do that because in like an Iraqi wouldn't stop at a red light or you wouldn't stop
[01:06:28] It stops on you you know you obviously the lead vehicle would check close enough
[01:06:31] And then you you're traveling really tight. You make sure there's no cars coming
[01:06:34] But yeah, you're just gonna blow through you're not gonna stop and so that the other call came out to blow through
[01:06:38] So which one didn't trouble for that?
[01:06:40] It would be gonna find well luckily we had some heads up drivers that stopped at the their green light and and sauce
[01:06:46] Coming maybe they were intimidated by guys with 50 gal machine guns and the turret, but definitely you know that's one of those things
[01:06:52] We're it's hard for guys to turn it off sometimes and it when you're when you're doing tactical driving on the range as if you were in
[01:06:59] A combat scenario and I'll be sitting here on the street. Yeah, so that again. This is a car I should have been said
[01:07:05] Okay guys
[01:07:06] We're going back on civilian roads stand down
[01:07:09] You know what I mean? I should have said that but I didn't say that because I'm dumb and I will we it
[01:07:14] We we we made the assumption which turned out to be false that people would automatically know that and they didn't
[01:07:20] Yeah, so we had to tighten that up, but that was just one less and learn from our biggest trick with shenanigans
[01:07:25] Yeah, it's good times. I'm surprised I didn't get more trouble for that
[01:07:29] one of the one of your guys
[01:07:31] We were in a he was a designated driver. We're in a navy van and
[01:07:37] We go from one place we we knew someone and we were out in town and we went from there to downtown to go to you know
[01:07:44] The bars right in Vegas. We're pulling into a parking garage and you know they have that metal pipe that says, you know
[01:07:50] Six foot two inch clearance
[01:07:52] Well whatever the clearance was it was a very low parking rush
[01:07:55] So he's got this big navy van. We come in and we we kind of hit that
[01:08:00] And I'm sitting in the back and you know what this is a classic example of a decentralized command
[01:08:05] I'm not gonna step on the toes the guys the designated driver
[01:08:08] I wasn't drink or I probably had a few drinks or whatever, but I wasn't definitely wasn't intoxicated
[01:08:12] And
[01:08:14] But I see oh like I look out and I see we kind of hit that thing and so
[01:08:20] We go around the corner and then we start to actually enter the parking garage and as we go underneath the first concrete beam
[01:08:27] The the it's
[01:08:29] You can hear it the scrapes against the ceiling
[01:08:32] But it scrapes hard and the vehicle comes to a stop and
[01:08:36] What is the driver do again?
[01:08:38] This is the designated driver what does he do he starts pressing down the gas? He's just gonna power through this
[01:08:45] I'm in the back. I go dude
[01:08:47] I'm like dude. What are you doing?
[01:08:51] Stop what are you gonna rip the roof off of the vehicle?
[01:08:55] Like back out of here and leave he's like well, I thought I could have made it
[01:09:01] Man one good team guys shenanigans
[01:09:04] That we were talking about was me you and the Delta commander
[01:09:09] Delta-Potent commander rolling roll and rolling up the Santa Barbara I think you actually came up to me and said
[01:09:15] To Naseus D. Are you gonna see to Naseus D?
[01:09:18] Yeah, so for those of you may not know jocco is a huge the Naseus D fan
[01:09:22] The D and I think that's that's how I came out you're like the D
[01:09:26] They're in Santa Barbara. Let's go road trip road trip road gig road gig
[01:09:30] So we jumped in yeah, all the things that you gave me you gave me a copy of a belt face
[01:09:38] My David Hackworth when we were working together to you bruiser
[01:09:42] At the end of our art art tour together and you gave me the the set to the DVDs to Tanesious D
[01:09:48] There you go and the Delta there you go. That's the dichotomy of leadership right there hackworth about face the
[01:09:54] Tanesious D. Yeah, so we found out Tanesious D was having a concert up in Santa Barbara you know, we're all stationed here at San Diego and and we jumped in
[01:10:03] Joccos
[01:10:05] Dodge
[01:10:06] 1997 Dodge Grandcaravan
[01:10:08] 1997 a lot of people just called it the Pimp wagon
[01:10:13] Because it was hard to keep the ladies off
[01:10:15] Where when you're rolling and this is there a there window was tape shot on the driver side
[01:10:19] It's to it's rigors tape shot hard to you working in there now. I think was shot because it's a little electrical thing broke
[01:10:25] So we're we're cheap bastards so we're not gonna spend the night up there
[01:10:29] I think we actually had a work to do maybe the next day so we jump in the van
[01:10:34] Joc I think you drove up there we rock out to the Tanesious D concert in Santa Barbara
[01:10:39] We bought Jocco a t-shirt to the Sasquatches reel
[01:10:43] The Sasquatches reel and I remember driving back at about there's about three o'clock in the morning
[01:10:51] We were like passing through camp pedal than as kind of where our ranges are there as on the way back down
[01:10:56] We're just aquapello singing to every Tanesious D zone that we we knew by heart
[01:11:01] We're gonna make a new band. It's gonna be called aquapello D
[01:11:07] That was a good done. Yeah, yeah, that was pretty fun. All right
[01:11:11] Tanesious D
[01:11:15] What are your daily non-negotiable habits wave-fabon my daily non-negotiable habits?
[01:11:24] Usually I want to sleep in about 10 30 10 30
[01:11:28] 11 star just
[01:11:30] He's a donuts
[01:11:33] Listen, I mean I the at the end of the day just when he goes freedom
[01:11:36] It's a mantra that I learned from you and that it's it just absolutely true and if you got a
[01:11:41] You got to get up in the morning to work out on the on the there's some days
[01:11:44] I frankly I can't do that because life gets in a way whether I'm if I'm traveling or
[01:11:49] My my kid wakes up early and I know you know I've been out of town and my wife once you get to work at him before the day starts
[01:11:55] So I've take the kids so she can do that and we can we can rotate now
[01:11:58] You know, so I can't tell you that always happens
[01:12:00] But you gotta get up early you gotta work out and and you have to you have to prioritize an SQ and and having that
[01:12:06] Checklist that you put together the night before about what you want to do and what's important is is
[01:12:11] Absolutely critical otherwise you lose it and you know for me and Jocco and for all of us at our team
[01:12:17] On national front like it's when we get away from the things that that we talk about the people
[01:12:22] We're human beings I get everybody else and we get pulled in different directions when we get away from those things
[01:12:26] It doesn't work things start to fall apart. You lose you lose track of where the priorities are if I can't regularly detach
[01:12:31] That's something that I have to really focus on to do is is to regularly detach if I'm grinding on something for two or three or four hours at a time
[01:12:39] Sometimes it's easy to miss other things that are that are coming up and I got to make sure I pull away from things
[01:12:43] Kind of kind of think about the prior prioritizing nice QPs figure out you know
[01:12:47] If I need to reprioritize and and so I don't get target fixating on one thing and and keep going
[01:12:52] But I think for me you know, I what I want to do is I try to make time to spend time with my family as much as I can as well
[01:12:58] And obviously there's there's a there's a lot of work to do there always is and and it's you know those things
[01:13:05] The one when when I could stay consistent on getting up early in the morning and getting to work out in
[01:13:11] You know stay focused on a list that I have from the night before that I'm falling through all the things that you talk about
[01:13:16] That's I'm I'm performing better than I ever do
[01:13:19] All the time you win it works and the end of the end is what works and then what doesn't where yeah, that's how you win check
[01:13:28] Tell us about a time you were annoyed with jocco or his intensity
[01:13:36] annoyed with jocco or his intensity
[01:13:40] You know what we we got along pretty damn well together and and I think
[01:13:44] There's not there's not really any time that comes to mind that I was annoyed by you
[01:13:50] Except for maybe you know what what we mentioned earlier right when the times when initially we're working together and you're looking over my shoulder
[01:13:56] And and tell me to do like we should do this way. Let's let's let's point it like that
[01:14:01] I definitely got a note from that time when I felt like I want to run my you know everyone's trying to tell me what to do here
[01:14:07] And jocco's looking over my shoulder. I want to run run my team just just explained earlier
[01:14:11] And and I didn't realize until later like what you were doing and like hey you're you're passing
[01:14:17] You're passing all on a great information
[01:14:18] I see that all the time actually with people
[01:14:21] Because if I could have detached from that situation I would have recognized like hey I'm a new political commander
[01:14:26] I've never been a particular commander jocco was just a political commander
[01:14:28] He had a highly successful political commander tour
[01:14:30] He had a historic deployment where he did a whole bunch of operations and he's got a ton of lessons learned
[01:14:35] So what an amazing opportunity to learn everything from him
[01:14:38] But that's not the way you approach it right it's like ego my ego and I see that all the time
[01:14:44] I mean there was a leader a leader. I was dealing with where I was talking to a member of the board
[01:14:50] For this particular leader who was constantly bucking against the you know this guys and it was it's amazing to me
[01:14:56] Though to see like hey the the CEO of this company his pushing back against the member of the board like
[01:15:00] He should be so thankful that the member of the board has who has got massive amounts of experience
[01:15:06] Extraordinary success is there to mentor and train him and yet he doesn't want to listen to that guy
[01:15:11] I want to do it myself you're always over my shoulder it said to me like hey man open up the legal pad
[01:15:17] Let's take some notes here. I want to pick your brain for everything. I want to you know
[01:15:21] It's and and I think just recognize if you're feeling that way and you're frustrated with with somebody who's
[01:15:27] Looking over your shoulder then then you need to take advantage of the situation to learn from them
[01:15:32] And certainly build up trust the boy the way to get out of that situation the build-up trust that show
[01:15:36] That you you're learning you're growing and and that you don't need someone to look up your shoulder every second and usually that comes
[01:15:42] Even after we got
[01:15:43] Forward and you just unleashed us on the battlefield. I would always come to you
[01:15:48] I mean I hate jacquad what do you think about this we're gonna do this situation
[01:15:51] I wasn't looking to you to tell me what to do
[01:15:53] But I was running things by you and and we do that all the time now that's not front
[01:15:57] I call jacquad was a hey here's what's going on I'm working on this leader
[01:16:01] You do the same I mean we we talk about these things all the time and well and that it's actually that
[01:16:05] What's what's interesting about that is that in the last six months that idea has really become
[01:16:10] formalized in the tank which is where we take the companies that we're working with and
[01:16:16] We whoever's working specifically with us with a specific company on the ground is
[01:16:21] Coming back to the tank all all the echelon front team and we we get on the call or the Skype or
[01:16:28] The conference room and we go through all the issues that all these different companies are happening
[01:16:33] And that's where we solve the problems is in the tank so that way we get everyone's input and
[01:16:37] Not only do you give the best solution to the client?
[01:16:40] We also all learn from it so that we have that solution in our head so it'd be we all get stronger and better
[01:16:45] So that's that's one of the evolutions in our salon front that's pretty awesome to see is what started off as just like how we would run
[01:16:51] T you bruiser which is hey we're gonna bounce ideas off his other and hey I don't know how to solve this problem to you or
[01:16:57] Hey, I don't know how to do this operation to you or this is what I think what do you think which is the way a team should work together and
[01:17:03] Now what we do is we get to do that for other companies use the same brain power use the same methodology and it's it's awesome to do and it's awesome to see it is awesome
[01:17:13] The tank yeah getting in the tank
[01:17:17] All right, Lave you were for those of you don't know Lafos a ship driver for how many years before you so
[01:17:22] Lave you never look at me didn't get picked up for seal teams right out didn't get picked up for buds right out of the naval academy
[01:17:27] So he had to go to a ship
[01:17:28] Here's a question about not about that specifically, but
[01:17:32] Lave what are your thoughts on a ship's captain being relieved of command and
[01:17:37] What to do if you are involved and
[01:17:40] He would like to know from the ships captains perspective that is being relieved because of the mistakes of your crew
[01:17:47] Or if you're in the crew and the captains getting really even though you made the mistakes. What are your perspectives on that?
[01:17:54] Well
[01:17:55] Look I just to get people some background that I know we and I've talked about my background on podcast 11
[01:18:00] But but it was I never wanted to be a ship driver. I want to be a seal
[01:18:03] That's why I went to the Naval Academy. I got thrust in that position looking back on it was it was an amazing opportunity for me
[01:18:10] Is a young man to have to be in those leadership positions and I enjoyed my time on this ship
[01:18:15] Is a warship cost to build a billion a billion a couple of billion dollars crazy so you're you're you're
[01:18:20] Sometimes you're the guy right you're a lieutenant JG on the bridge of a two billion dollars ship and you're in charge of all
[01:18:26] When you're the officer of the deck you're the guy in charge of captains a sleep right in his cabin
[01:18:31] And he's got a full faith in trust in you and you're running the ship and so there's the question right there
[01:18:37] Sometimes the captains a ship a sleep in the cabin and he runs and and in the crew runs the ship a ground
[01:18:42] The captain gets fired. What do you think about that that is the Navy way? It's it's always been that way
[01:18:49] And I think it's 100% correct because there are no bad teams only bad leaders and I think that if you have
[01:18:56] Even if the captain wasn't in direct responsibility
[01:18:59] It's his job to train that team it's his job to mentor that team and if he's got questions about whether or not somebody is
[01:19:06] Has the capability to do that job?
[01:19:08] Then then they shouldn't be in that position. It's up. It's up to the the captain now the captain can't be everywhere
[01:19:15] It wants to its decentralized command. He has to rely on his leaders, but it's
[01:19:21] It's definitely
[01:19:23] I think ultimately the the captain is responsible and that's really what makes stream ownership say
[01:19:27] How do client ask me a question yesterday?
[01:19:30] Have you ever sent anyone to do something that they weren't ready to do?
[01:19:34] I thought about it for a minute and
[01:19:39] The first thought was
[01:19:41] Well, of course the second thought was no the
[01:19:45] Real answer is it's gray area right?
[01:19:47] Did I ever send somebody to do something that they weren't 100% if I put this quantification on a hundred percent ready for it all the time all the time?
[01:19:56] How often did I send somebody to do something that they weren't capable of doing the answer is zero?
[01:20:02] In other words, if you weren't capable of doing this and I didn't trust that you could make it happen
[01:20:08] I wasn't gonna let you do it that'd be irresponsible for me as a leader to let a subordinate go and do something that they're not ready to do that's it period
[01:20:14] Or they're not 100% ready to do or they're not not not 100% put them not capable of doing
[01:20:18] But I mean when we first got to the body in your mind
[01:20:22] You probably weren't 100% ready to go out there and execute
[01:20:25] In particular because we've been training for a mission with just seals, you know for for for roll-up assaults or direct action raids
[01:20:33] You know that at nighttime and all of a sudden we're shifting to daytime canter sergy operations working with Iraqi soldiers
[01:20:39] Completely different mission broken up in all these different units. We hadn't trained we hadn't trained like that in a violent war zone, by the way
[01:20:45] but
[01:20:46] I
[01:20:47] You know, I had trust that you were completely
[01:20:50] Competent and capable of doing that and if I didn't think that and I didn't think you were competent or I didn't think you were capable
[01:20:57] Then I would I would be a bad leader if I said yeah, go ahead and go to go do that and then I answered the question further to this client
[01:21:04] I said there was two people from tasking at bruiser that didn't go on to plan it with us
[01:21:09] Because they weren't capable of doing that job. So yes, you as a leader you're responsible and I was thinking about this
[01:21:14] There's been times where Navy ships have run a ground and the captain wasn't even on board
[01:21:18] He had flown to somewhere to go do a meeting somewhere the ship runs a ground guess what still getting fired
[01:21:24] Because you left someone in charge that you left that team you didn't train them well enough and you can make all the excuses you want
[01:21:29] I wasn't there. Yeah. Well guess what you're still getting fired because you were responsible for that team
[01:21:34] I think part of that too is the understanding you know what no bad teams on bad leaders
[01:21:38] With the chapter two we wrote you know an extreme ownership is about the part of that is
[01:21:44] I have seen some people that misinterpret that right to say well
[01:21:46] I got a bad leader so the team's not good that that's not a excuse
[01:21:50] So when we're talking about leadership we're talking about leaders at every level of the organization
[01:21:54] So so you know if you're if you're if you're a department head on that ship or a division officer
[01:21:59] A division chief and you say oh, I got a bad I got a bad commanding officer
[01:22:03] It's all the commanding officer's fault our ship doesn't doesn't perform the way it should whatever your team is
[01:22:08] That's not an excuse. You you got to do your utmost to get your team ready to train others around you
[01:22:13] And and lead that team as much as you possibly can and you don't have to be the senior guy in charge and often some of the best units
[01:22:19] We work with and we're part of the senior guy may not he may not have been the guy driving the operations
[01:22:24] But he allowed his leaders to to go out and execute and and make it happen so
[01:22:29] The leadership we're talking we're talking leaders at every level of the organization
[01:22:32] It's not an excuse to put the blame on the boss
[01:22:34] You got to step up you got to lead and own your team solve problems get better learn from mistakes and make it happen
[01:22:41] What does it mean when a ship runs a ground mean literally hits dirt
[01:22:48] Yeah, well in this case we're talking ship collisions. Yeah, so running a ground is one thing the
[01:22:55] You know, and there's an argument to be said like because some of our greatest leaders like
[01:23:00] Admiral fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz who was the hero the Pacific war was off-court to him
[01:23:05] You know on this on this podcast previously
[01:23:07] He was the commander chief of all US forces in the Pacific so he was he was the the the person
[01:23:14] Responsible for the entire war effort against the Japanese in World War II and that victory
[01:23:19] A massive effort obviously in an extraordinary turnaround
[01:23:23] From from this assur to to victory
[01:23:26] He actually ran a ship a ground as as a junior officer, so so there's you know
[01:23:30] There's an argument to be made that there is no full you know the flawless performance it doesn't exist and people make mistakes
[01:23:35] You can learn from it, you know as far as ships running around
[01:23:39] You know that that's one thing. I think you know you can make a careful evaluation
[01:23:43] What we're talking about here that is specifically it's a ship collisions and you know
[01:23:48] Those should not happen that just that should not happen
[01:23:50] I understand how easily that can happen because it there's a these are huge
[01:23:55] Machines that go very fast and you're out on the ocean with other other other ships that are moving around
[01:24:01] And there's a whole lot of danger
[01:24:02] And it takes some of those big ships takes miles to stop them like even if you see and you go okay hit all full breaks right now
[01:24:08] It doesn't matter you're you're still gonna hit absolutely
[01:24:10] You know you're gonna get hit for like 10 minutes. Yep. You know if you can't stop it just brace for impact
[01:24:15] Yeah, but but if you've got you got the right team in place
[01:24:17] They know what they're doing you know that there's all kinds of safe safeguards in place and if that team's properly trained like that
[01:24:22] Should not happen it should not it's like you should be able the airplane should land safely all the horrible things
[01:24:27] It could go wrong when you're flying in near plane and landing in a crazy airport like JFK or you know our LX
[01:24:33] You're from the Hong Kong. Yeah, that's a doozy too. Yeah, so those kind of things that are crazy
[01:24:37] So but there's a lot of things to go wrong, but if it's done properly and safe garbage in place
[01:24:41] You're gonna you're gonna be fine. So so so but there's again
[01:24:45] It doesn't mean that you know we expect flawless performance that no one's ever gonna make mistakes
[01:24:49] I think if if a mistake isn't that bad it should be forgiven
[01:24:52] But there isn't a there just isn't excuse of like well, it wasn't me somebody else on my team did it that's the opposite of extreme ownership
[01:24:59] It doesn't work. That's not work
[01:25:02] check
[01:25:04] next
[01:25:06] I this is relate well, I guess yeah, it's it is for life
[01:25:09] I heard you say it is important to think
[01:25:12] I heard Jocco say this too. How do you think meaning how do you talk to yourself? Do you ask yourself questions?
[01:25:19] Do you think by talking to others? What do you believe is the most valuable method for becoming a clear thinker and communicator?
[01:25:29] That's a deep question. I actually think it's pretty easy to answer it is easy answer I think I can answer it one word
[01:25:36] go
[01:25:37] Detach
[01:25:40] That's that's that's how I think
[01:25:42] Look you can't you got to step out you got to step back mentally you got to step back look at what's going on
[01:25:47] And think and that's where you can think about it. That's where you can figure out what's going on
[01:25:52] If you can do that you're there
[01:25:55] If you can't do it you don't even know you're not doing it. That's a problem
[01:25:58] When you're not detached you don't even know you're not detached you're in the storm and you don't even know it
[01:26:03] That's a lot of stuff for that's exactly right, but I think you know for people it maybe don't fully understand what that means
[01:26:09] Right this this idea of the tax which you've obviously talked a lot about on here and which is such a key thing for decision making
[01:26:15] it's
[01:26:17] The I think the key thing there is is to make sure that that you're not you're not clouded by
[01:26:23] You know this emotional attachment to plans which we often talk about with our
[01:26:26] Ladies and the seal teams like I'm emotionally invested in a plan that I came up with
[01:26:30] I spent hours or days or weeks or months you know involved in
[01:26:34] And I want that to succeed of course, but but is that you know
[01:26:38] I got to have that realistic assessment and that's what the detachment really requires is that
[01:26:42] You pull yourself not just physically away, you know out of the weeds or to say okay, let me think about this in the strategic picture
[01:26:49] But you really you take away that
[01:26:51] emotional investment that you have to maybe even whether it's a plan sometimes it's a team member as well
[01:26:56] And if you have you know someone that you just have a close relationship with that you you know
[01:27:01] Whether they're a relative of yours and you've had a long-standing relationship with and that maybe you've gotten too close to them
[01:27:06] And you can't see that that you know
[01:27:07] They become more important than the mission and they're dragging the rest of the team down
[01:27:10] You're not making the that call either tighten them up or let them go. That's that's the right case
[01:27:14] So I think what that really requires is you got to emotionally pull back
[01:27:18] It's a it's a mental thing to really have a brutally honest assessment of the situation that's that's independent from any kind of
[01:27:27] previous bias that you might have had
[01:27:30] That's interesting there because
[01:27:32] Even if you know like oh yeah, I'm gonna detach
[01:27:34] Right, not that easy. Yeah, like you can go through the motions
[01:27:38] You can't be like hey, I'm gonna detach from detach right now meanwhile you're just like I said clouded by the emotional part that you're like kind of one foot it
[01:27:45] Emotionally so you're technically not detached so doesn't work
[01:27:49] You know what else is a good way to think is to listen
[01:27:53] Do listen what people are saying I've been thinking about how more how he said
[01:27:58] if you listen
[01:28:00] You know
[01:28:01] Twice as much you know everything that you know and you know everything that the other guy knows
[01:28:05] Yeah, that's a great that's a great thing
[01:28:08] But if you're sitting in a you know conversation
[01:28:10] I mean from a business perspective if you're in a meeting and and there's a conversation going on if you're in the conversation
[01:28:16] You're talking you're adding your piece well
[01:28:19] Then you're you're
[01:28:21] Not detached you're in it, but if you sit back and you listen and you hear what's going on you can assemble
[01:28:26] You know thoughts better
[01:28:29] so
[01:28:31] All right next
[01:28:32] When can we expect any books to come out by either of you and what are they going to be like extreme ownership or way of the warrior kid?
[01:28:40] So I also had a book called Displaning was Freedom. It's a Field Manual by the way sure you familiar with Field Manual
[01:28:46] I go you claim to be familiar with Field Manual. That's favorite kind of manual. Yeah, okay
[01:28:52] Way the warrior kid two is coming out in April
[01:28:56] It's called Mark's Mission and
[01:28:58] And we are in the process of writing latefabbing tell me about that. Yes, we are we're getting after a second book right now
[01:29:04] It's a follow on book to extreme ownership and
[01:29:07] I'm super excited about it's it's gonna be in the same format when we talk about combat
[01:29:12] Combat lessons learn on the battlefield or in training and then a principle and then it's application the business world
[01:29:18] And the same in the same format of extreme ownership and and what it really is is it's to answer all of the questions and
[01:29:24] Difficult these people have from applying the principles we get these common questions all the time of like okay
[01:29:30] I'm having this issue and okay, you said take ownership here, but but what does that really mean and or how do I apply?
[01:29:35] Cover moved you know to my team
[01:29:38] These it's gonna dive much deeper into that and it's it's gonna be also gonna be coming out fall of 2018. How do you feel about writing a sequel?
[01:29:47] It's it's not a sequel. It's gonna be a standalone book on its own
[01:29:52] It's gonna be good. Okay. I think it's nerve-racking
[01:29:57] Because you know what have you ever seen the movie jaws?
[01:30:00] Yes, yes, that's one of my favorite movies. Have you ever seen the movie jaws too?
[01:30:06] Yes, we got issues with jaws too. We got issues. Yeah, and this is what I think
[01:30:11] So I think again, I'll call it luck. Maybe not, but I call it luck
[01:30:17] Luckily for us this book has sold really well
[01:30:20] that
[01:30:23] If we would have written a sequel a year
[01:30:27] After this book came out it would have been jaws too to be honest with you, but luckily
[01:30:33] During because now it's been two years since this came out so we've had and in by the way I've followed up year
[01:30:39] If we were to release the book if the publishers going release another book release another book
[01:30:44] You will pay you more money. That's what they do. They want you to release another book now
[01:30:46] We got some hype from this book. We'll get another one out there and life and I will like well, no
[01:30:50] not right now
[01:30:52] stop and
[01:30:54] We'll let time that we write another book. Well, I did write another book, but they're not the same right?
[01:30:59] We don't we don't want to make jaws too. So we let time go and guess what we're doing all the time that we that we had passed
[01:31:06] We weren't sitting around. No, we were working with more companies. We were working with more military units
[01:31:10] We were working with police. We were working firefighters. We were having the master. We were learning more and more lessons
[01:31:14] And we were getting feedback from this book and saying okay, I see some threads in it first. It was one little thread and it was another little thread
[01:31:22] And now of a sudden all those threads come together and you get something you get you get a fabric
[01:31:29] And that's what we waited for is let's get something that is a woven fabric that's gonna be strong like Kevlar
[01:31:36] So the next book that we got coming out
[01:31:38] I disagree with you that it's a standalone book. I don't think it's a standalone book. Are you gonna retract your statement?
[01:31:45] I'm gonna give you chance
[01:31:46] You should I do try my same because because it is I mean the new book I thought you were setting me up for a
[01:31:53] An ambush there no
[01:31:54] You're gonna not there no it's it
[01:31:57] It I'm sure you could read the new book on your on its own, but you shouldn't you should read extreme ownership first
[01:32:04] And then you read the new book and when you read the new book it's gonna again all those threads are gonna weave together and and
[01:32:13] They're gonna be the perfect it's gonna be there gonna compliment each other. I'm a amazing way
[01:32:18] I think that's in that in that method or and from that perspective absolutely
[01:32:22] I think absolutely it is it is a sequel in that perspective
[01:32:25] It will be written in a way that that you can read it as a standalone book for for sure
[01:32:30] It will certainly reference you know the things that we taught about in extreme ownership and the
[01:32:33] Foundational principles upon what's that that's a written
[01:32:37] I think there are a few exceptions under your jaws analogy. Hello a lot actually. Yeah, I mean I can think that Indiana Jones the temple of doom
[01:32:44] Yeah, Terminator yeah, Terminator two yeah, which may day, but it doesn't have a lot to do with how you said
[01:32:49] Hey, let's wait a little bit. Yeah, so that's true. Yeah, so that's true. You can just a let's the whole story that you
[01:32:53] Different right that's the difference because if you just oh we had a hit movie make another one right now
[01:32:58] Yeah, that's a good title. Yeah, yeah, that's a good title. Yeah, jaws wasn't hit let's make another one
[01:33:03] We'll call it jaws, too. Yeah, but if they would have waited like Terminator. They waited that what eight years or so
[01:33:09] Then it's like okay a lot of things are updated a lot of new stuff. They figured out like you're saying the boom terminator
[01:33:14] Dude just is good aliens aliens
[01:33:18] First movie was that pretty quick afterwards the second movie aliens crush the person really
[01:33:23] So I I I I'll to be totally honest. It's a gamble though. No, I actually I don't know because I'm
[01:33:30] I'm halfway a little bit more than halfway done with my writing part right before we start editing each other
[01:33:36] I think I think we might have a
[01:33:39] Sequel that's better. I don't know I have a suspicion that the sequel's better possibly better
[01:33:44] I think so too. It's been it's super fun to write you know as we're doing it and I think as you said our knowledge is so much more now
[01:33:50] I mean we our knowledge of the business world was was
[01:33:54] We've been working for a couple you know two or three years in the business world at that point
[01:33:58] But but now we've got double more than double that and and the reach and expansion of of of what we've been doing since the release of extreme ownership is
[01:34:05] It's it's a hundred X what we were doing you know previously so
[01:34:09] That's just given us it's been an an massive education and and
[01:34:13] Our knowledge of how to apply these things across the spectrum. Yeah is incredibly
[01:34:16] Um, so much so much deeper than than it was previously and and I'm excited about yeah, it's gonna be good
[01:34:25] Next question is how long is it take to prepare for a monster and
[01:34:29] When we read this quite question earlier. I thought it was the person asking how long would take this individual me or all right
[01:34:35] Well, whoever a
[01:34:37] Person out in the world to get ready to go to the monster. Oh, yeah
[01:34:40] And the answer to that is it doesn't take you any time you just I mean you should read extreme ownership for sure
[01:34:46] But there's no like big physical
[01:34:48] There's physical things that you do at the monster, but they're scaled that anybody can do them
[01:34:52] So it's really you don't need to do any major preparation other than put your ego in check
[01:34:57] I think biggest preparation you need is is to
[01:35:01] Look at yourself in the mirror and and write down that that where your weakest and where you need to work
[01:35:05] I mean that's what we want to talk out of don't care where you're doing great
[01:35:08] We're not there to patch on the back. We want to care like where you can get better and everyone can get better
[01:35:13] Certainly you can prove all the time and I think that's what you need to do
[01:35:15] I thought this question is about how we prepare for the monster which is always about which is substantial always about life
[01:35:22] That me on time
[01:35:25] Yeah, it's it is it's on a work to prepare for the monster, but which is it's fun. Yeah, it's fun. It's great. We enjoy
[01:35:31] But a random question in your experience have you had or do you see high injury rates in jujitsu
[01:35:40] Want to start rolling again, but don't want to disrupt progress on the barbell
[01:35:45] Oh, yeah, sure. What was that banter it's possible? I am being a weak suck
[01:35:52] Although not probable
[01:35:54] Yeah
[01:35:55] Risk assessment what do you think?
[01:35:58] Can you get injured in jujitsu? Yes. Yeah
[01:36:00] Just like you can end your
[01:36:02] Basketball you'll get injured playing basketball quicker than jujitsu. That's very interesting
[01:36:06] In jujitsu. Yeah, first I will I will I will the key part about this question for me is you want to keep making progress on the barbell
[01:36:14] Right, so you want to keep getting stronger
[01:36:16] That's cool. I want you to be stronger, but if you're super strong you don't know how to fight
[01:36:21] I got nothing for you. Yeah, that's a deeper thing to and keep this in mind though
[01:36:25] And this goes for any if physical activity like if your goal physically is this thing and then you start going
[01:36:31] Harden another direction it could very well take away from oh, it's a constant
[01:36:36] You're you're not gonna reach your maximum potential as a weight lifter. Yeah, if you're doing jujitsu
[01:36:41] Yeah, sure swimming or anything else
[01:36:43] Whatever, yeah, you gotta find a balance, but I mean what's the most important? What's a more important skill to have?
[01:36:48] be able to
[01:36:49] snatch big weight or be able to defend yourself in a street fight
[01:36:54] Yeah, hey the snatching big weights gonna help you defend yourself. Yeah, big time. We we we appreciate that were friends
[01:36:58] Yeah, but
[01:37:00] Prioritize yeah, now what's interesting is on a daily basis. I always work out
[01:37:07] But I don't always do jujitsu because
[01:37:10] You can't you need you need someone to train with you. You know what I mean? Like you need someone to do jujitsu with you can't do jujitsu by yourself
[01:37:15] So sometimes you don't have anyone to train with look
[01:37:18] I think for my perspective as as a white belt it's it's
[01:37:21] I've trained enough you gotta be getting close to that blue belt
[01:37:26] Well, I got a lot more work to do certain about
[01:37:28] Right, I'm not up to him. You guys you guys have inspired me. I'm training training hard got to get a great place
[01:37:34] I'm training down in Texas now John John Machado Austin's awesome
[01:37:37] That's a good right yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[01:37:40] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[01:37:40] And they just the type of people that train in there. I mean it's it's it's
[01:37:44] And that's that's what I like about that's that that's you know same thing in place. I train in New York
[01:37:48] It's just that to me has I
[01:37:52] Think of your constantly getting in general time like you're not training with the right people and you're not training in the in the right manner
[01:37:58] Something that I learned years ago and when I was on the box and team the naval academy
[01:38:02] Me and and my buddies, you know who were kind of scrubs
[01:38:04] We didn't travel with the team. We just beat the piss out of each other every every day
[01:38:08] And no one could breathe out of their nose and everyone had black eyes and then you watch the guy who was was the guys who were really skilled
[01:38:14] They sparked but they were working on form. They were you know, they they weren't just knocking each other's heads off every
[01:38:19] Punch every time you know every single day and I think that's it
[01:38:24] That's where you have to it's great to train hard, but I think you need to train smart and I think you you need to the biggest thing
[01:38:28] I'm guessing this person is probably
[01:38:30] Has it trained that much so that they they they know Dave Birkin. I was rolling you know here victory last night and I was I was
[01:38:39] I was telling Dave you know days he's made some progress. He's been training out in Virginia
[01:38:45] I was like cool man you're doing good, but he's he gets so amped up
[01:38:48] He can't the touch so he can't the touch because he's he's gets so amped up and it's I realized I used to just be in that
[01:38:54] I've trained enough now
[01:38:55] I still might be the white belt you but I've trained enough now to know that that I've got
[01:39:00] I've got the throttle back because it's
[01:39:03] You get so focused right I'm gonna focus on my one little white belt america
[01:39:07] I'm trying to get you know our bar versus versus like no detach and thank for the sounds like
[01:39:12] Four five getting that
[01:39:13] Yeah, he's not too trained with him. Yeah, we did like yeah, yeah
[01:39:18] So he it was funny is where we're rolling around. I mean it is is
[01:39:23] And at one point I'm like laughing him because he's literally like
[01:39:26] You know that kind of breathing like Dave in his
[01:39:31] Like you know when you breathe when you feel here somebody breathing hard like that typically it's like when you're they're writing your ear
[01:39:36] So it's it sounds way more intense
[01:39:38] There would have been a time could have been also because I had a little little elbow pressure
[01:39:43] Time period when you're in like kind of starting to jitsu and Dave Burke might be in this situation right now
[01:39:50] It's it's the very early in jitsu where in your mind
[01:39:54] You think like you know what like I'll be able to I think I'll be able to get like jockel right
[01:40:00] Sure like I'll be like like he'd be a man if I I think they learn some little move and they're like
[01:40:05] I throw this a jockel at the right time
[01:40:07] I feel this at this black belt the right time. I'll be able to get him
[01:40:11] You don't say yeah, you have that
[01:40:13] Yeah, for sure I had that with teen one time
[01:40:16] Yeah, I mean but what what I when you're amped up to that level though, you know, and yeah
[01:40:22] You're thinking that like no one can tap me or and I don't think Dave's it is in that in that mode
[01:40:26] He's he's learned enough
[01:40:28] Maybe to be beyond that but it's it's when you're that amped up your chances of of getting injured or
[01:40:34] Wayward just more significant and it's why you know if you see a brand new white belt come with I'm much rather roll with brown belt and
[01:40:41] Perfect blue even though I know they're gonna you know they're gonna get the best of me
[01:40:44] I have a much less chance of getting injured than just the death match with some white belt who's you know
[01:40:50] Who doesn't even know you know anything and and just so I think you got to be smart about who you train with and that's what I love about
[01:40:56] You know, John's up machin awesome with Todd White is guys there. They're they're they're super
[01:41:00] You know they're very knowledgeable. They pass on stuff with their humble just like just like folks here
[01:41:05] Victory I mean it it's and I think when you're training with the right people. They're like oh cool
[01:41:09] You got you got me in an arm bar. You got more that choke was great show me how to do that and it's it's a but it's a humble learning environment
[01:41:15] We're you know you're not there to injure people you're not there to get hurt and I think it's sure you're gonna get tweaks and and bumps and bruises
[01:41:22] But I think there's you know if you're training smartly and training to learn then the chance of getting injured the probability is as much less
[01:41:29] My boy Todd what Todd White he's like old school. Did you too guy and he
[01:41:35] Me and him were on the circuit back in the
[01:41:38] Comforters back in the day he was a L.A. Jean Jacques guy and
[01:41:43] And anybody where he listens to podcast by the way. Yeah
[01:41:46] L.A. That's only payments. Holy yeah, they were back in the day
[01:41:49] All right, um, I'd be into that the jujitsu what even
[01:41:55] Like I wouldn't want to paint the picture that like all white belts are gonna increase your chance of injury
[01:42:00] It's it's kind of a specific type of person to roll it that will increase your chance of injury and that's like a guy who's strong
[01:42:08] Mayor may not have like this eagle word you can't talk me and I'm gonna try to keep every single time for sure and
[01:42:14] He has like an element of like
[01:42:17] Legitimate strength and athleticism on top of it. So you got to put all those together like you go into a typical gym all you take all the white belts
[01:42:26] You may not even have a guy like that
[01:42:28] That's true. It's like the probability of a guy being like that is pretty low. Oh no
[01:42:33] I did disagree there might be higher problem. I'm not pretty low depends on what
[01:42:38] Do you change that though in my opinion what changes is the is the Bible structure like so
[01:42:43] Someone's by oh you want to get tough with that guy over there
[01:42:45] Well, let me I'm gonna impose some humility on you. It's called regulation it has yeah, which is yet another
[01:42:52] Factor that kind of contributes to the the overall safety of it so and I'm not saying low like they're rare
[01:42:58] Nothing like that when I'm saying if you take a just I don't know some random class a
[01:43:04] New white belt spazzy strong
[01:43:07] Maybe mayor may not be young with like a huge eagle maybe one guy
[01:43:11] Me you won't get a class full of them. You know, so your day to day rolling is is pretty safe
[01:43:19] You know, I mean yeah, you you do need to pick your training partners carefully. Yeah, for sure
[01:43:24] But to to this guy though here's I mean it look
[01:43:28] That could not go way back. I think I probably knew echo even before before you did jocelyn in our
[01:43:34] Surface warfare days. I got good friend cake nuts who's a
[01:43:37] Me to friend and others that we've a cake we we worked with in fact echo was you were he was a
[01:43:42] Bouncer downtown before everyone knows because he talks about
[01:43:47] He had to put it with all our shenanigans and
[01:43:50] Back in the trouble but I remember coming in here and training it victory and echo was a blue belt and showing me and cake nuts like some moves and and and and and
[01:43:58] And because I kind of had this mentality of the guy who asked this question of like you know
[01:44:01] You might get injured and I was focused on other things and I trained your all the time
[01:44:06] And a lot of times I'd be here to work out and I do stand up
[01:44:10] And I would never I never trained you just to like I should have never stuck with it consistently didn't have the this one
[01:44:16] To do that
[01:44:18] For whatever reason I get pulled in different directions and you know here we are you know
[01:44:21] Ten or twelve years later and echo's a brown belt. She knocking on the door of
[01:44:26] I'm getting his black belt and I'm still a white belt. So who what doors are you knocking on?
[01:44:29] I'm not knocking on this
[01:44:32] I don't think about here silence out there
[01:44:34] Yep
[01:44:35] So don't be that guy. I think I would make the time to train
[01:44:39] Get some yeah, for sure. All right
[01:44:42] Losing a teammate both military and civilian civilian world happens
[01:44:47] How do you assist and promote healing and growth within a team that has lost a pivotal member
[01:44:51] What do you do when the emotional toll leaves your guys unfocused and is creating unacceptable risks?
[01:45:06] Yeah, you know, I've talked about this this before and I think obviously in this can happen
[01:45:12] This part of life is death and people are gonna die and you
[01:45:16] Obviously we're all gonna deal they're all gonna face it sometime in a work environment
[01:45:22] How do you deal with it one of the things that I always say is?
[01:45:27] Get back to work right you you yes you're gonna more yes you're gonna have your more real services
[01:45:33] And then you got to get back to work and I think if you let people
[01:45:39] If you give them too much time off if you let them sit around
[01:45:42] They're gonna get unfocused. They're gonna start thinking about
[01:45:44] You know, they're gonna start thinking about things that are not good to think about because
[01:45:50] We want to yes we want to mourn if we want to do
[01:45:53] We want to remember but at the same time and I say this all time we don't want to do well
[01:45:57] You don't want to dwell in the past you want to remember but don't dwell so I say get back to work
[01:46:04] Going back to what we talked about earlier find out what your next mission is gonna be you have more of a reason to achieve your mission
[01:46:11] because you lost someone that
[01:46:13] You'll ask someone that can't and it can that can no longer
[01:46:18] Carry on with their mission
[01:46:20] So for them
[01:46:22] Carry on with your mission go forward don't dwell in the past anybody that you lost that you cared about
[01:46:27] What would they want you to do what they want you to sit around and and soak and look at the ground? No they don't want you to
[01:46:35] Get your gear
[01:46:36] Get your mind set straight and get back after it
[01:46:40] So that's what I recommend I think that's that's exactly right and I think getting to work
[01:46:46] The reason that's important is is if these people if that person died
[01:46:51] You know and for the guys that we lost like if we just if we just gave up and walked away that means they died in vain
[01:46:56] For nothing and and we're not gonna do that we're gonna
[01:46:59] We're gonna double a triple quadruple down that mission to make sure that we win that their sacrifices weren't weren't in vain
[01:47:05] And I think that's helping the team understand
[01:47:08] What you're accomplishing and why they're doing what they're doing is is it incredibly important and we wrote about that
[01:47:14] It's a partnership and talk about it all the time that understand and why and briefing the team and helping them understand
[01:47:19] Why is it's critical but yeah, focus on accomplished in that mission is is what you got to do
[01:47:24] I think the other thing to is you know do everything you can to take care of that that person and their family
[01:47:29] Take care of their family and and help them out and you know that's an obligation that never goes away
[01:47:34] That you're always gonna have and that's extremely important and something that's that's helped me through you know
[01:47:39] Those difficult losses is by serving others and looking trying to look out for others and I got to do that even more than I do
[01:47:51] You know another thing that can help out
[01:47:54] In those dark times is a little bit of jiu-jitsu to be quite frank with you next questions about jiu-jitsu again
[01:48:01] My BJJ coach knows it all
[01:48:03] The problem is he's a know it all
[01:48:06] Condescending insulting derogatory comments to students while classes in session
[01:48:13] Option A stay
[01:48:16] Option B go to a school down the road with less experienced but much more mature-minded teacher
[01:48:23] What would jockel do what would life do what would echo do?
[01:48:26] I would probably move okay
[01:48:33] Fair enough straightforward depends how much depends how much less experienced though. Yeah, okay
[01:48:39] But purple bow brown belt if I'm just beginning like belt whenever yeah move okay
[01:48:47] Late fabric yeah, look it is as a white belt myself like I learned from there's amazing purple belts and brown belts out there
[01:48:53] You know I learn a ton you know from you echo you always show me stuff and you you have a great knack for teaching
[01:48:59] Which is good you know people some people just don't have that as as much and I think
[01:49:04] Yeah, I think that's if you're at the white belt level. That's that's great. So I think that's
[01:49:11] Jockel apparently disagrees
[01:49:13] I go to very good teacher that is
[01:49:15] Echoes you can see is you can see him swell up a little bit
[01:49:18] It's that love it
[01:49:22] You're the a life set it
[01:49:24] Yeah, he's like a impartial
[01:49:27] Listen that's because I've been you have taught me things. I imagine you have a taught jockel to exceed in that way
[01:49:33] But and even if he would yeah, you should you should go for that
[01:49:37] Maybe we should do that right now
[01:49:39] Cumate
[01:49:41] But look I yeah, I think you can learn from a lot of different people and and you'll mount one thing you just can't make sure as you can't make it
[01:49:46] You make sure it's your ego getting the way and when someone's really coaching you said
[01:49:49] Yeah, you need to do this you need to get better
[01:49:51] And you just don't like the manner in which they're they're doing it public or whatever
[01:49:55] You might need to put your ego in check and just say okay, I don't know everything of course
[01:49:59] You know, let's learn if it's over the top then yeah absolutely you should go where you can learn
[01:50:04] Best and the quality of the people around you that you're wrong with us
[01:50:07] We talked about it earlier. I mean that that to me is everything and that's what I love about jitsu is that just the
[01:50:12] You know such a diverse group of people when you get it a great jam you're trying to add it and just folks are working together and learning together and
[01:50:19] You know they get the best of you and then there they're willing to show you about how they did that or some things
[01:50:23] She's like about keep it a secret
[01:50:26] My opinion on that is just a yeah, I agree with you guys, but at the same time I'll say this
[01:50:33] One of the things you got to learn to do in life is you got to learn that you're not gonna get along with everyone and not everyone's personality
[01:50:38] Is gonna mesh with yours that doesn't mean you throw away the baby with the bath water. Sure you see them saying
[01:50:44] So there might be a guy that he's not a good teacher. He treats people like crap
[01:50:47] But he's got really good information and he's you're learning a lot and you so you're gonna take as much knowledge as I can from that person
[01:50:54] I'm not just gonna walk away because I don't like his attitude. You know what you're gonna have people that you work for
[01:50:59] That have bad attitudes and you're gonna have people that work for you that have bad attitudes
[01:51:02] You're gonna have to learn to deal with it. You're gonna have to learn how to get as much out of them as you can
[01:51:06] Out of everybody as a leader everybody that you got there. There's people that aren't gonna be good at this
[01:51:11] But they're good at that. Okay, well, let's let's
[01:51:13] Capitalize and what they're good at so this guy very knowledgeable kind of a jerk
[01:51:18] Let's capitalize on the fact that he's very knowledgeable put your ego in check and show up there
[01:51:22] Take the knowledge from him. Yeah, and then years to come you pay him back pay him a visit. Yeah, I've
[01:51:29] Dang it sure and I think but overall being true
[01:51:33] But yeah, if yes, if you're getting the knowledge you're you emphasizing your life cruising
[01:51:40] Non, I emphasize in my life getting after that so that's true for this therefore you're at that you're like
[01:51:45] Oh, this guy doesn't cruise hard enough right right when we become people to get right
[01:51:48] Yeah, yeah, no, I dig it and but I think at the end of the day if how you said the guy
[01:51:54] Yeah, he's not saying cool stuff or he's saying stuff that's not cool or whatever
[01:51:57] But you're still getting the information then okay, you know and also just like
[01:52:01] Um, with Jordan Peterson like it pays off in life to have thick skin like you're gonna be successful like that's one of the ingredients for
[01:52:09] For success they dig it so if you're giving an information for sure
[01:52:13] But a lot of times with the know it all situation which is the words he used oh I've been in that situation like a few times
[01:52:19] So where it's like I see what you're doing there and you be in the guy who's kind of had some experience
[01:52:25] I'm thinking like I don't the circumstances that you're talking about
[01:52:29] That's not gonna work and I know that just from experience or whatever
[01:52:33] But this guy's in all and no, no, I know you don't know kind of attitude or whatever and
[01:52:38] If that's the way the whole teaching experiences and learning quote unquote learning experiences
[01:52:44] I think no, I think more benefits would be
[01:52:46] Gathered elsewhere. Yeah, it's interesting when when late for you're talking about yeah
[01:52:51] You use your kid as a
[01:52:54] Test for yourself to calm down and get more mature and detach and all that that's good
[01:52:59] I basically do in that all the time like when I when I meet someone that that is rose me the wrong way
[01:53:04] I always look at that like okay cool. I'm in a former relationship this person become their best friend and see if I can get through this
[01:53:08] It's a big and happen. Yeah, so that's maybe what I do with that
[01:53:10] It's a triple yeah, but while by the way
[01:53:13] I'm taking all this knowledge from him so I can formulate it into goodness again if you get in the knowledge
[01:53:18] Yeah, good man good, but as a white belt it's like come on bro you're gonna
[01:53:24] You want to get the best teaching learning
[01:53:26] Overall, you get to experience possible. That's where you know like as a new beginner white belt to whatever
[01:53:32] I'm gonna come in and then just get insulted by and know it all the whatever like I don't know even though if I like you
[01:53:36] Jitsu now yeah kind of things and you run there. It's not good for business. That's for sure. Yeah, so of course
[01:53:42] Hey, you're jacco. I get it man. Life gets it, but
[01:53:46] We're not all jacco when someone says like or is it know it all and I'm supposed to trust this person to teach me
[01:53:51] Jiu Jitsu because you know for all the great reasons we take Jiu Jitsu and I'm trusting this person and
[01:53:57] They're gonna be like how this guy explained I don't know man. I don't know be a question mark. That's cool
[01:54:02] You go down the street and train
[01:54:05] Yeah, I would rather get
[01:54:07] 99% of the knowledge from a good purple belt than five percent of the knowledge of a know it all guy
[01:54:14] There's there's there's there's a clean argument for that next question
[01:54:19] This is from
[01:54:21] Vijay, normal Kumar. He's been he's been on in the game for a long time
[01:54:26] Yeah, got a lot of a lot of lists. Do you know we've got a lot of listeners in India?
[01:54:30] No, actually I talk to Vijay from time to time online check
[01:54:34] so he says
[01:54:36] You must have had
[01:54:38] good days and awful ones
[01:54:40] in the field
[01:54:41] How did you manage to stay focused?
[01:54:44] Despite the ups and downs? How did you win over the darkness?
[01:54:48] Also, what was your workout like when you guys were engaged in the field and probably tired?
[01:54:54] Two questions there
[01:54:56] I think how you manage the ups and downs is is
[01:55:00] You got to stay focused on what the goal is
[01:55:02] You know, and I think we talk about that how
[01:55:05] the recognition
[01:55:06] You know when we came back from that deployment and you put that slide together about the battle of everybody
[01:55:11] They kind of capture on this map, you know the the the areas that we'd taken back and even though I'd planned and led those
[01:55:17] operations
[01:55:20] You know so many of those operations. I've been intimately involved in the planning and leading those
[01:55:24] Ops and then writing you know post-operational summaries and all the reports that we
[01:55:28] We had and were involved in and so the battalion and brigade level meetings
[01:55:32] You know for that that whole strategic plan
[01:55:35] I didn't really have a fully grasp
[01:55:38] Just I didn't put it all together in that way and when you when I saw that slide that you put together that showed
[01:55:42] You know the red
[01:55:44] Enemy held areas of her body and all of a sudden blue circles going in the the US bases
[01:55:49] That were put in that we were often the lead element on the ground for
[01:55:54] It put it all together for me in a way that that I had not seen before and that I recognized I had to do better job with my guys
[01:55:59] I'm doing that too and I think that's something that for every later that's where that detachment comes in
[01:56:04] To be able to think okay help me understand what this is all about
[01:56:09] Through the dark times through the rough times so I can focus on what the strategic goal is
[01:56:13] And and so I can help the team understand that as well and I think
[01:56:18] That's that's something that you know if you step back from the details kind of think about it
[01:56:22] So that you can understand it and then impart that team that's your team so they get an understanding
[01:56:26] It's it enables them to slog through
[01:56:28] When it's really difficult and it's dangerous or they've got some real challenges ahead
[01:56:33] But they can say focus on that that that go
[01:56:36] You also got to remember what it feels like to do the right thing
[01:56:39] It for me like I know what it feels like to not do the right thing and I don't like that feeling
[01:56:46] Later right it feels good right now
[01:56:49] I'm not through the right thing because you're like cool back and she does
[01:56:52] And I'm gonna get some right you know what that feels good right there
[01:56:55] You know what it feels like later you know you went off the path and that's not good
[01:56:59] So I just always think okay, well, I'm gonna suck it up now
[01:57:03] Take the take the problem now take the hard path now because I know later
[01:57:06] It's gonna pay off. I'm gonna feel better in the long run
[01:57:08] Pay now pay later pay now our pay later. Let's stop with me when you said it. It's good. Yeah, yeah
[01:57:13] I like when you pay now and pay later sometimes
[01:57:18] Sometimes pay the man now and then pay them in later and then hey ask about workouts too
[01:57:24] While we're in the field and and this is a good one because you know like firefighters right firefighters are on duty for 24 hours
[01:57:28] So that means they're gonna get a workout in at some sometimes
[01:57:31] If you're more than that, but there's a new 24 hours on on duty where they're at the station waiting for a call are you gonna do
[01:57:40] Oh
[01:57:41] Let's say one of the workouts from this man goes freedom field man. Or are you gonna do the three sets of
[01:57:47] 20 reps squats with 20 minute rest in between?
[01:57:50] I think they call those little make are you gonna do that if you if you're if if within like 15 minutes
[01:57:56] You might be called on to carry a kid down a ladder
[01:58:00] Don't do that workout then because you won't be ready and that's kind of the attitude in Ramadi
[01:58:06] It was like yeah, we we trained hard certainly and we know we talked about that on on podcast 65
[01:58:11] The things they carried and and how we had to be we had to train hard, but you had to always hold a little back
[01:58:17] Because you never knew when you're gonna get the call and you certainly after a big blow-out squat workout like that
[01:58:22] I mean you you weren't gonna be able to run to the streets and run upstairs and drag your
[01:58:26] 250 pound buddy with 60 pounds a gear on you know for 50 yards across the open street while shooting with the other hand
[01:58:33] So I mean those are the kind of things where you got to be ready for that and you could you had to leave a little reserve in the tank
[01:58:40] Just in case
[01:58:42] Because we got often well, we don't have an opportunity. Oh, we do have an opportunity. I get ready. Oh, yes, you do
[01:58:48] Right on yeah, so leave a little in the tank. That's a good way of putting it
[01:58:52] Okay, here's a good one
[01:58:54] Question this is for both of you did either of you ever get into serious trouble as a teen before dream joining the military or were you always
[01:59:02] exceptionally disciplined from a young age
[01:59:06] This rave bab at
[01:59:07] exceptionally
[01:59:09] There reason I'm laughing if my if my parents
[01:59:13] Or listening to this and they're probably laughing hysterically right now, so as as or mine this is yeah
[01:59:17] I got an all kinds of trouble all kinds of trouble all the time. I was a total while man
[01:59:22] I think you should you're brother with an arrow in the leg or something
[01:59:26] I know he stabbed himself
[01:59:27] Okay
[01:59:28] He stabbed me so we should each other with beady guns
[01:59:31] Going to the list all the time that was and we threw spears in each other
[01:59:34] Yeah, you know in high school. I drove around with an old beat up pickup truck
[01:59:38] And I heard it from my my uncle who'd inherited from my grandfather and smash road signs and just knucklehead stuff and
[01:59:45] Yeah, I was a complete idiot and
[01:59:48] But you know in the military helps score me way certainly and it was
[01:59:53] I'm lucky that I didn't do something that caused me to have you know lifelong injury or death or or damage
[02:00:00] You know, I think or do something you get a bunch of trouble for for sure that would have changed your jacket
[02:00:04] You prevented me from going to the Naval camp prevent me from going to the military and and and would have that would have redirected my whole life
[02:00:09] So I think
[02:00:11] You know if you're in that stage and you're you're a wild teen
[02:00:16] You need to think clearly about the long-term consequences
[02:00:19] Because you definitely can pay the man now and pay later in that situation for sure one of the things that we do is as
[02:00:25] Young boys and speaking from a boy perspective because I'm not a girl and when I was growing up and with the way I look back on it now
[02:00:32] a lot of the stuff that we did dumb stuff that we did as teenagers was
[02:00:37] We were testing each other and we were trying to prove ourselves back on on top watch me do this like on it's almost it's almost like if you go
[02:00:45] Instinctually as a tribe member
[02:00:47] You're proving that you're willing to sacrifice you're willing to take risk and sacrifice
[02:00:51] That's what you're proving to your peers like I'm gonna like what you just said pick up truck
[02:00:55] I'm gonna drive down the road and I'm gonna I'm gonna run over this sign. Well, okay
[02:00:59] It's funny, but you're also proving to your friends that you don't really care and you'll take risk and you'll do things for the tribe
[02:01:05] That's kind of what you're proving so I think again
[02:01:09] I don't want to sound like going back to the same broken record
[02:01:13] But if you want to get your kid or if you're a kid and you want to prove yourself guess what you can do
[02:01:17] You can go take your jitsu you can learn how to fight for real
[02:01:20] You can learn how to defend yourself you can learn how to take care of your tribe take care of yourself take care of your family
[02:01:24] And you can do you can learn how to beat up other people which is an important thing. I wish I would have known it
[02:01:31] When you know jitsu you have a less of a chance of getting into a fight because the way you act is different
[02:01:35] You don't act like a jackass because you realize that you might get stabbed and so you act respectful to people
[02:01:42] And people can tell that and you're respectful back to you. So yeah, it's just another thing
[02:01:46] I think helps out a lot with kids because I think boys are always trying to prove themselves to each other and to themselves
[02:01:52] That you're tough and that you're brave. I'm trying to prove that you know how many that's just let's just survey
[02:01:59] How many times did you jump off the roof of you know buildings?
[02:02:04] A lot. Yeah, it's like why are you doing that?
[02:02:06] We actually used to go when I was we'd go fishing on the oil rigs off the coast go deep sea fish
[02:02:11] And you might run 40 or 50 miles off and
[02:02:14] You're not supposed to get on the rigs. There's all these signs to stop but we totally get up on the rig and just jump off
[02:02:18] 60 feet off the top of the rig
[02:02:20] Which was awesome it hurts a little bit
[02:02:22] But it was good times, but we do things to prove that we're tough
[02:02:27] Like I did a lot of dumb things when I was a kid and most of them were to prove to myself and to my friends
[02:02:34] That I was tough and that I was committed and then I would take risks which are all that was crazier than that
[02:02:39] Which are all positive qualities right that you want like we're in the teams
[02:02:43] We're kind of kind of team it you want you want a guy that's aggressive you want a guy that will take risks if he needs to you want a guy that's committed
[02:02:51] That's what you want so in these little weird tribes that we have as teenagers
[02:02:55] That's what we have and when are you gonna do the proof?
[02:02:56] Let's go get a fight with somebody. Let's go beat someone up. You know those all those dumb things that you do so be smart
[02:03:02] Be smart neither one of us
[02:03:05] We're model children to say
[02:03:07] To say the least all right, late next one. Late first off. Thanks for picking up the spear
[02:03:12] I'm interested to hear more about the mousha-hodeen in Ramadi
[02:03:15] How did they stack up against US forces was it like an NFL team playing against the high school team or did they have tactics training and discipline equal to our own
[02:03:26] Well first of all, I appreciate the thanks
[02:03:28] But it was an honor for me to carry the spear and as we said
[02:03:31] We'd go back there in a heartbeat certainly. This is a great question
[02:03:34] It's a great question. I think it really gets to the heart of
[02:03:38] What we talk about all the time is the greatest quality in a leader in that is humility
[02:03:43] And when we look at the mousha-hodeen are the mousha as we call them right the enemy fighters who control Ramadi
[02:03:49] There were several thousand of them by by US intelligence reports
[02:03:53] Estimates one who controlled two thirds of the geographic area the city when we first arrived in the spring of 2006 with Tasking and Bruser when Jalkan
[02:04:00] I were there and you know, we were showing up our our seals are some of the best shooters in the world
[02:04:06] There's some of the best
[02:04:08] Combat troops in the world. We have
[02:04:10] Highly-screened group of guys who've been through all the seal training pipeline that's a year and a half long
[02:04:15] Probably at a minimum and then we've worked together for almost a year as a as a seal
[02:04:20] Poutine we've got guys with extraordinary physical fitness
[02:04:23] We go to these awesome shooting schools. We train together. We have we have the best
[02:04:27] Budget and gear you know that that all the giant special operations
[02:04:32] You know budget can buy the best training and equipment and so when we get over there
[02:04:37] We're we're ready to go and and pound for pound if you take you know a seal operator from Charlotte but soon versus one of the moush fighters that were going up against
[02:04:46] That seal operator can do hundreds of push-ups. He can do hundreds of pull-ups. That's NFL versus great school exactly and that you know the moush fighter
[02:04:55] He
[02:04:57] He has versus no training. He he probably can't do 10 push-ups. He's he has none of the gear and awesome gear that we have and
[02:05:06] And it's so it's pound for pound. It's not even comparable and yet
[02:05:10] To think about this from from the reality perspective right in my put in Charter but then we had 16 seals and five of those guys were brand new
[02:05:17] Straight out of training never been never been a combat before
[02:05:20] Never been never deployed Iraq five of us and we're going up against the enemy that has had three years at that time three straight years of
[02:05:30] Nonstop real world combat experience and so the the experience level is not even comparable
[02:05:36] When we're going up against these guys they know the city
[02:05:39] They I mean and they're able to use our weaknesses against this whereas we got to carry all the heavy weight and you know the body arm
[02:05:45] The helmets and and we're not a climate ties to 115 or hundred you know 20 degree high
[02:05:51] During the during the day and the heat of the summertime they are and they live there and they don't have to carry water on them
[02:05:56] They don't have to carry body armor no, but they they
[02:05:59] They can just throw a backpack with seven RPG rockets and a rocket tube and roll out with their flip flops and knock off a detest tracksuit which is what they generally were and
[02:06:09] You know or they're built fed you know rushing machine guns that they use they weren't near as good as the ones we had
[02:06:14] But they were they were deadly and they could use them and they could shoot and so you could never ever ever take those guys for granted
[02:06:21] And I think that's the if they would always be looking to probe weaknesses and they weren't there to fight us head to head
[02:06:28] They would try to take advantage of our weaknesses. They were very good analyzing a situation
[02:06:33] Looking at a weakness and taking advantage of that weakness of probing form and and if you ever took them for granted
[02:06:39] I mean they were they were gonna they were you're setting yourself they might hit you hard anyway and you might get got it lose guys
[02:06:45] Even if you were prepared but if you weren't prepared and you started taking for that infigranded
[02:06:49] You started getting complacent and and not respecting them as an enemy
[02:06:54] Then then you were gonna fail and they kind of I mean for lack of better really they cheat too
[02:07:00] That's the thing right?
[02:07:01] So you guys have rules of engaged with all this stuff and they just straight up and then and what's I would say even more important
[02:07:07] That is
[02:07:09] They don't have value for for human life
[02:07:12] They don't value their lives. They're literally suicide bombers and so that you know
[02:07:17] They could lose five they even want to die
[02:07:21] Yeah, they wanted they want to achieve martyrdom in many cases and so
[02:07:26] You know them dying is is not a huge impact and then obviously for for Americans and American soldiers and our friends
[02:07:34] It's it's it's epic and and crushing loss of life every single time and so that is the the biggest difference is that
[02:07:44] We have to
[02:07:46] It's like being and it's like you know, he says it this way says he says it's an FL versus high school team, right?
[02:07:53] Well the the if the NFL
[02:07:56] Should destroy that team right completely destroy it
[02:07:59] But if the high school team scores a single point the kick of field goal. Yeah, they get lucky and kick of field goal
[02:08:06] That's it that's a win and it that's that's crutch that's crushing and that's kind of what it's like
[02:08:11] They're not gonna win if they're not gonna win the game
[02:08:15] But even when they put a score on the board man, it's crushing and
[02:08:19] One thing that you know as I think about it too that the what was unique about that
[02:08:23] Tasking and bruiser diploma to remind in 2006 was you know I'd put three times to Iraq had quite a you know
[02:08:28] Jockel made mobile performance to Iraq. We a lot of you know we had a handful guys have been there multiple times
[02:08:33] The guys who went later afghanistan and and and and elsewhere around the world and so all significant
[02:08:38] Common operations, but what was unique about that was we were we were going on foot
[02:08:43] Do you want to drive because you need to blown up with these you know horrific IDs are gonna destroy your vehicles
[02:08:47] So we park our vehicles we had to carry everything on our backs and and and walk in
[02:08:52] Into deep deep and enemy territory in place where we knew that it was very unlikely that that tanks could even get to us to help us out in some cases
[02:09:02] And if they did if they were gonna try to come in they might very well get blown up and kill
[02:09:06] So what was interesting about that is you know we might have
[02:09:09] 8 or 10 or you know
[02:09:10] Seals sometimes it may be it was 20 seals, but but that's a fairly small group
[02:09:14] You know we've had some Iraqi soldiers well this but we didn't count them when it came to
[02:09:18] They didn't count when it came to a who's gonna actually be able to defend this position, but I had to have the expectation
[02:09:24] That that we might very well have
[02:09:27] 50 60 enemy fighters
[02:09:29] Surrounding our position attack us and and they could easily overrun us and what was unique about that to point was we didn't have dedicated air support
[02:09:36] We didn't have a dedicated quick reaction force that was gonna come out and and help us that only was supporting us
[02:09:43] Unlike you know some other
[02:09:44] Seal common operations that that have happened elsewhere and and it was or on other diplomas that I was on and we were on our own
[02:09:51] We had to plan for that and and you had to recognize it they could add they would absolutely bring it and
[02:09:56] They would try to kill you overrun your position and kill everybody capture someone and that was a real possibility that we had to be
[02:10:03] We had to recognize could happen at any time and we had to be ready for well
[02:10:07] Just to just to state the statement of fact on top of what you're saying the the enemy did the enemy did overrun
[02:10:14] Friendly positions
[02:10:16] Multiple times while we're there and kill dozens of people and some of those
[02:10:20] You know some of those heavily fortified ECPs would get completely overrun attacked overrun vehicle born ID so it
[02:10:27] Yeah, it wasn't like this could happen
[02:10:30] This is actually happening while while we were there
[02:10:33] Friendly positions got overrun by the enemy and so yeah, it was not just it could happen
[02:10:40] But it is happening and it's a it could happen to us tonight tomorrow night whenever
[02:10:45] Yeah, they were good they used cover move. I mean they laid down fire to pour each other
[02:10:49] They they they
[02:10:50] They buy together plans to get the combined arms they combined arms, you know, they'd come in with the
[02:10:56] The machine gun fire and then the Rpg fire and the mortifier and and then all the sun there'd be a VB ID
[02:11:01] That's that's what they do
[02:11:03] And there were different levels within there as well. I mean sometimes you get shot at and it was kind of a spray and spray someone
[02:11:07] Dump in an AK in your direction and then other times you'd have multiple belt fed machine guns hitting you that were you know
[02:11:12] Coming through a little you know three or three by four foot window from a hundred yards away
[02:11:18] And they're coming in she's over your head and you're looking at you like man these guys know what they're doing
[02:11:23] They so you could tell when you know the the guys who've been there for a while maybe come from elsewhere
[02:11:29] They brought it and you could never take them for granted and also luckily for us even though we might
[02:11:33] I'd had a dedicated QRF we had the best damn QRF in the world, which was absolutely the one one AD and
[02:11:40] They were awesome and never failed to come and save the asses of to you
[02:11:46] They brave those roads over and over and over and over again jumping in their tanks
[02:11:50] Taken such tremendous risk or driving in home these down these horribly dangerous road
[02:11:54] We didn't want to drive to come help us out and they did all the time. They were awesome and we couldn't done any of our
[02:11:59] Apprentices without them next question
[02:12:03] And this is actually good question. It's it's how did the
[02:12:07] Naval Academy prepare you to lead and actually a lot of listeners at the Naval Academy and a lot of listeners at West Point
[02:12:15] I hear from them and actually I got sent that's true the helmet I got sent somebody sent me a
[02:12:19] Hand painted Navy football helmet pretty awesome with a worship on it
[02:12:23] Yeah, I'll show it to you this afternoon. So awesome. Thanks for sending me that by the way
[02:12:27] It's awesome
[02:12:29] So like like I said a lot of listeners we've had Brian stand on you know
[02:12:33] He talked about his experiences there and a lot of leadership he got
[02:12:36] From the Naval Academy was actually from playing football when you listened to him these playing football the Naval Academy
[02:12:41] Which was was a challenge for him
[02:12:44] But he learned a lot of leadership lessons there how did the naval Academy prepare you to lead?
[02:12:48] Well first I love my spirit of the Naval Academy and for me that was all about the people that I
[02:12:56] I served with you know in the folks that I met and and the things that we went through together
[02:13:00] I got in a lot of trouble in the Naval Academy. I struggled my grades something we taught about previously
[02:13:05] I got I had a big conduct record because I still did some of those knucklehead teenage things and and rebelled against authority
[02:13:12] But frankly
[02:13:14] Look there's great people there you know, there's great people on the staff. I've got a very close friend there's a batina officer now
[02:13:20] And it's awesome to have
[02:13:21] Good people there that are passing lessons on to you know to those young midshipmen as as a graduating and for every Academy or artis union
[02:13:28] You know
[02:13:30] For that matter I saw you know because you have a such a wide swath of officers from all different
[02:13:35] You know from all different
[02:13:37] You know Navy Marine Corps mean every every kind of different branch of within those services as well and and also you have a
[02:13:45] A midshipman leadership hierarchy
[02:13:48] You've got someone who because they made good grades or had a good kind of a ever got got promoted into this kind of make believe
[02:13:54] Did you ever there? Yeah, a little bit of you know a little bit of anger about that one right there just because they got good grades
[02:14:00] You know God they really think God
[02:14:02] Correctors there can be a charge me listen there there are some resentful this is new lay if I just met a new lay for resentful lay
[02:14:09] I'm actually not at all resentful I
[02:14:11] I
[02:14:12] Can tell you I had some I had some good friends who were in those positions and it was great for them, you know good for them
[02:14:18] It's kind of it's just it's funny looking back now because it's completely meaningless right when you're do you have a regimental commander there?
[02:14:24] Yeah, there's that guy in charge of all the students. Yeah, there's there's you know there's a regiment brigade
[02:14:29] Battalion at OSS they have it too that when I was an OSS. I was the man. I was called you the regiment always red you calm
[02:14:38] So no one is a little sensitive this
[02:14:40] There's a little said red calm
[02:14:42] Yeah, they also called the five bar because you the only person with five bars on your little uniform
[02:14:48] Did they did they call you captain big time? No, they cover all president day
[02:14:52] I was a president of my class too. Why did good time for OSS? So now now we see the sense of divity there
[02:14:58] Yeah, listen, I you know great we maybe you should have studied or that I mean some kids now or I hear from I get I get correspondence from people with the Naval Academy
[02:15:06] And like I can see that they're in the game. I can see that they're like all this is going on and I'm gonna I'm gonna like
[02:15:11] You know what I'm saying like you think you could have been you could have had that no question about yeah
[02:15:16] No, what did it have mattered at the time? I don't know you know failure as we say is often the best teacher
[02:15:20] Look I made I made great grades in high school and did well on my
[02:15:24] SATs and ACTs without I was almost no study. I got super
[02:15:30] I didn't have the discipline that was in place
[02:15:33] Once I got to the Naval Academy that's structure. It was difficult for me
[02:15:36] It was very hard for me as I went into a system engineering program and and those sort of things
[02:15:40] So I struggled with that so that could help me if somebody had if I'd have learned this one equals freedom at a young age and
[02:15:46] Recognize the power in that I'd be way way more ahead
[02:15:49] You know in life and we all for sure what about playing the game?
[02:15:52] Yep, and playing the game as well right that I'm gonna buck authority of like you know what actually it's gonna be a lot worse for you
[02:15:58] If you just you know even from a just personal perspective not knowing worse for you, but you're for your squad or for your
[02:16:03] You know these folks that you care about if you just build a better relationship with the folks above you and set of being the
[02:16:09] You know hard headed argumentative guy for sure
[02:16:11] It would be way better for me. I don't know when I figured that out
[02:16:14] I mean it was definitely it was definitely in my enlisted time
[02:16:17] I started figuring out that I'm working for a guy and I can either make my life
[02:16:20] I can either tell him he sucks and then my life is gonna suck or I can figure out how to work with him and that's gonna make my life better
[02:16:28] And by the way, it's just I'm just gonna make my life better. It's gonna make us do a better job as a team
[02:16:32] So it's interesting when you pick up on that in life and obviously if I would have been going to the Naval Academy at 18
[02:16:38] You know, I was a knucklehead, you know, I would have been in the same boat of like oh
[02:16:41] I'm gonna stick it to the man right? I mean I'm still listening to it to nature's de-ed age whatever
[02:16:46] We're still sticking it to the man. Well, I'll tell you the people that I really like like my upper class my really like
[02:16:51] We have some there, you know, still serving the seal teams and and a great guy as it helped him for it's me and and I
[02:16:57] Expected when I showed up there I
[02:17:00] Wanted to be a seal there. I wanted to go to war. That's what I wanted to do and it was very hard for me to recognize that like
[02:17:06] Not everybody wanted to do that. It was exactly like me. It was so it was so it was you know
[02:17:11] Some people were a little more academic or wanted to be on the intelligence side or wanted to be
[02:17:15] You know that they wanted to drive a ship or they wanted to be on a submarine or that you know
[02:17:18] They those things that you know fly a plane. I mean top gun it come out
[02:17:22] But you know, we had a whole bunch of people that wanted to be you know pilots that had gone to school
[02:17:25] So it was it was interesting people were a lot different than I expected and and some folks didn't quite have the
[02:17:32] The war like mentality that that I expected everyone might have
[02:17:36] You know going into that environment, but there's no question that if I did done a better job of
[02:17:41] You know you caught playing playing the game just seeing that you know detaching and seeing like hey
[02:17:46] Listen thinking strategically. Yeah, thank you strategically. We want to see if we want to don't want to say play the game because that sounds to
[02:17:51] You want to build relationships
[02:17:54] That is it to do this. I didn't recognize that it was not in my benefit or the benefit of the people around me to
[02:18:01] To create antagonistic relationships and that's a rather than de-escalate those situations
[02:18:06] I Rebellied against them and pushed against them and it was a struggle for me
[02:18:09] Yeah, and it took me a long time to figure that out that that being said though there you know there's
[02:18:15] The naval captain of different than anywhere else. There was great leaders there who mentor people and train people and represented
[02:18:20] You know folks well that were both officers on the staff and and listen on the staff as well as you know is midship and so
[02:18:26] But I think what
[02:18:28] What was a lesson for me and looking back on to now that I recognize it's great to identify who you don't want to be and if someone does something that's
[02:18:35] Looking out for themselves or throws people on the boss or you know those those leaders that you start losing respect for it's great to actually
[02:18:40] Identify that and and that's a good lesson to learn to say okay good
[02:18:44] I want to make sure I don't be that that way, but what what I have learned is that I can't be
[02:18:50] We talked to leaders about this all the time and I get people like what do you do you know when you're boss?
[02:18:54] It just isn't a good leader
[02:18:56] You're like guess what the seal teams is one of the most highly-street organizations in the world what's what's the percentage of
[02:19:05] Senior leaders that I work for that I had respect for that go and work for again
[02:19:09] You know that's maybe maybe 20 percent
[02:19:12] Maybe 20 percent of the people I work for during my time and guess that's about average as you talk to people
[02:19:17] You know it's about average in the business world better it's certainly the naval cabin any of those places
[02:19:21] So if you're expecting that there's most of the world out there is not gonna be a good leader
[02:19:25] It they're not gonna be a leader and that doesn't matter and that shouldn't affect your performance
[02:19:29] You should be able to do you know something that I learned from you which has probably been the most helpful thing that you ever taught me
[02:19:35] Was that I should try to have the same relationship with with every boss?
[02:19:38] You know whether I had deep respect and admiration for them or whether I despise them and thought they were you know
[02:19:43] Eagle maniac who you know are a coward who you know could mitigate risk so and that it's in my benefit of my team's benefit to build that relationship with with my team and
[02:19:54] That was that was a lesson that I had not learned then
[02:19:58] So yeah, those negative those negative lessons learned were were good for me and also
[02:20:03] I would have had a less negative lessons learned if I don't figure this out earlier
[02:20:07] Yeah, I'll same and really we got time for like one more question
[02:20:11] But it's almost the same vein so I think it's a good question to ask it says life at what point did you become
[02:20:18] enlightened to extreme ownership
[02:20:20] And how did you respond to the philosophy
[02:20:25] Kind of the same vein of what you were just talking about exactly. I mean I clearly didn't have that fully at the naval Academy
[02:20:30] But I started to understand through the kind of school of hard knocks and falling on my face and getting them much of trouble
[02:20:35] And I was like hey, it doesn't benefit me to rebel against authority or you know not do it up till it or be seen as
[02:20:41] You know is someone who's you know doesn't respect the rules or whatever and and
[02:20:46] I think I started to learn that little more in the surface fleet because I my goal
[02:20:49] I went out surrogate was crushing to me to not be selected out of the naval Academy and
[02:20:54] To go into the steel program
[02:20:56] So as I went out to the and served on a couple different surface ships
[02:20:59] I recognize like the what is the pathway for me to to the seal teams my lifelong dream
[02:21:04] That's all I want to do and it was
[02:21:07] Be the best freaking surface warfare officer now you got to just so everyone knows now you got to earn a recommendation to go and do this
[02:21:14] So if you're not the best
[02:21:15] Fleet officer you could possibly be someone's gonna go why would you why would you send to the sealed teams and you you're not even doing a good job here
[02:21:21] No, so you got to earn a reputation you also have to and a recommendation for sure
[02:21:26] You so you have to build that trust with your bosses and you have to get qualified
[02:21:29] So they've got to trust you and you have to achieve that qualification you're not even eligible until you achieve your warfare qualification
[02:21:35] So when you report about a border ship you have to do certain qualifications that say okay
[02:21:41] Yes, you are now a surface warfare officer
[02:21:43] Qualified surface warfare officer there's a bunch of boxes you got a check and it's boxes you got to learn all kinds of information about all the
[02:21:51] Hundreds of different systems and until you get that you're not even gonna get you're not getting a recommendation
[02:21:55] You're not even eligible you're not even eligible so you had to just you had to get so I had to
[02:21:59] Crazy and that and that and that helped me and I still had friction certainly and and but I started recognizing like what works and what doesn't and but it wasn't really until
[02:22:08] Test-game bruiser that's where you really quantify that for me and and you know as as we are going through
[02:22:15] I was in my second opportunity so I'd already been through a previous opportunity and
[02:22:19] And I didn't even realize like as in that second the second button is we were working to task in a bruiser with charted up a tune
[02:22:25] I was like
[02:22:26] Man, we're good
[02:22:27] We're performing well and when we started having you know a few months into the work-up cycle
[02:22:32] We'd have you know training instructors be like you guys are the best task in a we've ever seen come through here
[02:22:36] And it was interesting to me because I thought I was like well, I don't really I mean we have some amazing guys in this task in it
[02:22:41] But I had amazing guys in my last task gonna do we had very time and so it's not really the talent fact of the broke us out
[02:22:47] You know and and I didn't even realize
[02:22:51] Certainly wasn't that we didn't make mistakes because we made all kinds of mistakes in task in a bruiser and you know
[02:22:55] Disaster is training operations. We had to come back and revamp our training process and and make sure that we dialed in standard operating procedures
[02:23:02] Just what training space exactly and right exactly. That's the difference really yeah, and that was it
[02:23:08] It was this idea that we now call extreme ownership which is we're gonna take ownership of this and instead of me
[02:23:13] Like hey we're gonna push back against people or tell us we need to be better
[02:23:16] Or we're gonna even maybe even deny that we're as bad as we are we're gonna take a brutally honest assessment of ourselves
[02:23:22] And that that was one thing that really stands out to me as I think about it
[02:23:26] Do you remember our our debriefs that the training instructors?
[02:23:29] They're usually have a super lengthy and critical debriefs
[02:23:32] We would debrief ourselves after a run because they let the late let the buttons and the taskings go first and so often
[02:23:38] It was the only time I ever saw it to out my you know my nine years in the sealed teams that
[02:23:43] That that most of the time we would get done debriefing ourselves and the training instructors did not have
[02:23:50] They had either nothing to say or maybe just a couple sentences and that was it
[02:23:54] Yeah, because we'd rip ourselves to shred because we we were that was such a brutally honest
[02:23:58] Assessment of and sometimes they be like hey, I actually thought you guys did pretty good
[02:24:02] No, we're yeah we're working and that's actually you told you told them right
[02:24:07] Yeah, they say there were see you don't ever tell my guys that
[02:24:10] They're doing you know they're amazing that's the best one they've ever seen because that that allows us to not get better
[02:24:16] To not grow to get complacent so we always did that and I think that's I
[02:24:20] Was starting I recognize just how powerful that was to our performance
[02:24:23] So again, we were never flawless we always made we made mistakes but we learned from those mistakes we got better
[02:24:28] We grew all the time and we were able to run circles around everybody else as a result and deliver some
[02:24:34] Exceptional performance on the battlefield with that attitude and that's you know
[02:24:38] That that mindset and attitude is is the game changer
[02:24:41] That's why we call the book extreme ownership and it's what we impart to people is as we we see in the business world
[02:24:47] And it there's at the end of the day is what works
[02:24:49] There's what doesn't work, but that task in a bruiser and working with you and recognizing what that is and how powerful that is
[02:24:57] That's that's made all the difference. It's crazy to see and I'd see this all the time that well
[02:25:02] You just think about what you're saying it when the training cadre for instance tells you hey
[02:25:07] It took you guys a long time to get ahead count
[02:25:10] Meaning you're on the target and you want to leave the target before you leave the target
[02:25:14] You've got to know that you've got all your people so you want to get ahead count
[02:25:16] So the training cadre says hey it took you guys a long time to get ahead count
[02:25:21] Now you can do one of two things here you can say okay
[02:25:25] That's criticism how could we get a faster head count?
[02:25:30] Hey guys anyone ever done this a different way?
[02:25:31] Yeah, I have used this process in the past it works really good. Okay. Let's try that. Oh, that worked better
[02:25:36] And we've do this one little thing it can be even a little bit faster. Okay. Let's rehearse it
[02:25:40] Let's actually try and rehearse it. Okay, boom now we're getting really good
[02:25:42] So so we take that and all of a sudden the next time we go out we do a little bit better and then we've modified a little bit more and all of a sudden
[02:25:48] We can get ahead count in 15 seconds instead of four minutes
[02:25:52] Which is a huge difference when you're trying to leave a target
[02:25:54] So that's one attitude to have that's like we're gonna take ownership of the problems
[02:25:57] But I would see this all the time which is hey guys your your head count was a little slow and
[02:26:03] Guys go wasn't that bad
[02:26:06] Wasn't that bad and when it took us four minutes four minutes is not that big of a deal
[02:26:10] We like or like do that guy's saying that right now
[02:26:14] But I'd like to see him get ahead count faster than that and we did it as fast as we could do it
[02:26:19] Everyone counted as fast we could and we made it through the first time that took us three minutes
[02:26:23] And they're gonna say that's not good enough
[02:26:25] Don't worry about that and so so you're gonna stay on that pattern and you never get better and you're never gonna get better
[02:26:30] And it's cuz you're not looking you're you're not accepting criticism from the outside and it's like when we see that with leaders now
[02:26:36] I start laughing about the date David I was working with it with a team and
[02:26:40] And we had that say it comes up all the time and it's funny when you see people pushing back I get some some real
[02:26:46] Contractor criticism and my question is always like okay
[02:26:50] I said it's just you know that battle of egos there. I look at that and say okay
[02:26:54] You're telling just just let me understand you're telling me that you
[02:26:57] You are at absolute optimal performance you could never improve in any way
[02:27:01] In that is that is that what you're saying and obviously then they recognize like of course not
[02:27:05] So so that kind of opens the door of yeah, you can improve and you should improve and if you're not what you taught me is
[02:27:12] Not only should you improve I think the big lesson that I learned from you and that and we now
[02:27:16] You know teach here with that song for honest is that if not only should you improve
[02:27:21] But if you're not trying to do better if you're not doing everything you can to have the most efficient and effective head count
[02:27:28] That you can and improve and every aspect of your game all the time that you're actually failing
[02:27:33] You're as a leader and you're failing your team and I think that's a very fundamental difference of looking at it
[02:27:37] Yeah, that it's not just no I should be doing that
[02:27:39] But no if I'm not doing that I'm a failure is a leader and I'm failing my team yeah all this is weird
[02:27:44] You know talking about this head count thing it's it's a great example
[02:27:47] I'm surprised I haven't talked about it very much because it's a it's a really big deal like
[02:27:51] Friends and when you leave a target you can't leave until you know that you have all your guys
[02:27:55] So you got to get a head count there's multiple different ways to get a head count and
[02:27:58] The easiest way is you use decentralized command and every little team leader counts there three or four guys
[02:28:04] And they go yep ones up to is up three's up and they report in up one level and by the time
[02:28:09] I would need to head count I'd look at life and and the Delta Poom commander
[02:28:12] And I'd be like, are we up and it would take them 10 seconds a bit more up
[02:28:15] The the way the worst way to do it which I would also see would be you would literally count
[02:28:22] From from the lowest guy there's 36 guys in the troop and someone would say hey head count
[02:28:28] And the back guy would go 36 35 and they would you'd have a signed numbers 35 34 33 32
[02:28:38] How you sturdy one oh over here third wait you're 31 no I'm 32
[02:28:45] Did you count and see that you need it takes three minutes four minutes and and yet it's like well that that's a very sensible way on
[02:28:52] Paper to do it because you know you're gonna have all your people but in reality doesn't work
[02:28:56] And that's that one and so this is that one little thing right this one little thing one little improvement you can make
[02:29:01] But but that's not the only improvement you can make you can improve every little thing that you do and
[02:29:07] Every little thing that you do in a team everything that you do as an individual human being you can make it just a little bit better
[02:29:12] And the minute that you're you're you're sitting back in your your phone
[02:29:15] You know what I'm I'm not gonna make this change anymore
[02:29:18] I'm I've reached my panic goal of performance in this category the minute that you're do that
[02:29:23] It's not just one category that you're slacking off on it's all of them
[02:29:27] And I was telling you guys the other day. I'm like you know when you see me post a
[02:29:31] Picture in the morning that it say I'm gonna get up but I'm knocking up at 430
[02:29:35] If it says 435 that means I got up at 430 you know got out of bed and I went in and and and I took a picture
[02:29:42] I watched and I posted when I'm posting it at
[02:29:45] 408
[02:29:46] That means I woke up and I was like I got to get busy
[02:29:49] It's like it's not all it's not a long clock. I'm gotta get I gotta go do I gotta go make these things happen
[02:29:54] I got to look and see where I can improve my method for getting a head count
[02:29:58] How can I make it that much faster that one little thing and when you look at your array of what's you're going on in your business
[02:30:04] And it's also in your life do what can you do a little bit better?
[02:30:07] You attack those problems you accept the criticism when it comes at you which is so hard for everyone to do myself included
[02:30:14] You accept the criticism listen to it and then you modify and you make these little iterative changes and at the end instead of being a
[02:30:23] Decent task unit or instead of being a decent person or instead of running a decent team you can be the best and
[02:30:30] That's
[02:30:32] Only happens
[02:30:34] If you take ownership of what's going on in your world
[02:30:39] With that
[02:30:41] Echo Charles
[02:30:43] Speaking of taking ownership trying to get better
[02:30:48] Yes, maybe you can help us out with that a little bit. I don't know. Yeah, that's possible
[02:30:51] That's interesting know like where when you put into perspective
[02:30:56] Extreme ownership because you know how you say the biggest or one of the the biggest best qualities of a leader is humility
[02:31:01] Humility. You see the tie in right now right more so you know yes because you figure okay
[02:31:07] So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a little bit of a stripe but other stripe on the on the leadership white belt
[02:31:12] There you go. So you you get a team of people all different you know
[02:31:19] Personality whatever he goes different varying levels right so for little
[02:31:23] This is gonna be all these little problems. No one's perfect. No one's optimal right that's kind of the goal
[02:31:28] Even if it's unattainable perfection right that's kind of the goal optimal
[02:31:32] Then you have a team with however many mistakes it make and then as they train perform all this stuff all the little mistakes get pointed out
[02:31:40] And it's almost like the self self correcting organism we hope it is like that's why yes
[02:31:47] You hope it is so like if you compare it to like come machine learning situation
[02:31:50] It does that because it doesn't have a ego. I don't take things personal
[02:31:53] It's kind of like let me just solve all the little problems and then that's what they can grow and
[02:31:58] That's peninsula. It's right the thing that's awesome about that though is that you get
[02:32:02] What I think what you're talking about is building the culture right so you get if the leaders doing that
[02:32:05] And you get the team doing that once once people recognize like hey look how much better
[02:32:09] We are at head counts. Yeah, even if ours is it that then you start getting junior leadership
[02:32:14] Who's new you know frontline troops new guys who you know they come up with an idea
[02:32:18] Here's the way we can do this little bit they're solving problems. You don't even see yeah, it's a same that the other day, you know
[02:32:24] I was
[02:32:26] I was in a training situation the other day and
[02:32:29] I saw things go bad for this group. It was a military group and and things were going bad
[02:32:34] They worked they they all dropped the ball. They all kind of didn't drop the ball
[02:32:37] They're slack there. They were slack and I was thinking to myself
[02:32:42] I wouldn't see a a young new guy machine gunner
[02:32:46] Not getting a good position. I would never see that with my eyes because the guy that was immediately senior to him would would straight them out
[02:32:54] There would be no slack right there there would be no socket
[02:32:57] He'd get straight now. So by the time I show up and I look around everyone's doing amazingly well
[02:33:02] Everything's the way it should be it's not quite optimal, but it's damn close and why is that?
[02:33:08] It's because what you just said life. It's because every
[02:33:11] Leader every individual leader and every person is adjusting and making things making adjustments that I'm not even seeing
[02:33:17] And why are they doing that number one because they're all humble enough to look that they need to change things and number two
[02:33:22] Everyone in the group has their ego in checks. So when someone says hey shift your field of fire a little bit to the west
[02:33:28] The guy doesn't say why
[02:33:30] Yeah, no he goes I wonder why oh I see because he's got another guy over there that's covering that field
[02:33:34] Fuck got it got it boss. Yeah, that's that's what that's it now we have like like a machine
[02:33:39] That's just improving all the time. Yeah, which is what we're going for and if you lack humility
[02:33:44] In any any any any one of those levels you're you're you're gonna slow down that machine progress
[02:33:49] That process fully the yeah, so it's weird when you look at it from the big picture, you know and you see like
[02:33:54] Just like how you're saying when you kind of mentally compared your current team with you know teams in the past like oh
[02:33:59] There was talented guys on the other side on the other teams that I was on too
[02:34:04] But you kind of
[02:34:05] Understand and recognize that one
[02:34:07] Factors that everyone's kind of humble and it's always constantly like what can I do better right here with my
[02:34:14] You know situation in my own little world here
[02:34:17] But everyone's doing that so it's like this if you if you kind of collectively consider this group
[02:34:22] They're just bumbleble themselves and I take it one step forward just just once that further just so everyone can think about how to implement that
[02:34:29] in your world the way you implement it isn't by saying guys
[02:34:35] The head count will slow you need to fix it
[02:34:39] It's not by saying hey the approach to the target was too loud you need to be quiet
[02:34:44] That's not how you fix the problem you say hey guys
[02:34:48] Our head count is taking too long. I need to come up with a better way to do it
[02:34:53] I need to I need to figure this out or hey guys we were too noisy going to the target
[02:34:57] I need to make sure that you have the gear that you need to and I need to make sure we all understand how important it is to be quiet going to the target
[02:35:03] Hmm, I think I was too loud
[02:35:06] Right, I think I was too loud now everyone says damn
[02:35:09] Like these blame it himself for being too loud, but I'm the one that was over there my drop my cantine it made a bunch of noise in the rocks
[02:35:15] I was my fault
[02:35:16] I'm gonna tighten myself up
[02:35:18] As opposed to blaming everyone and we talk about this all the time the minute you're blaming everyone everyone's just you know
[02:35:24] They're looking for excuse to blame and you you don't understand how hard it is to carry that can't team quietly
[02:35:28] And I was thirsty because I've been carrying the machine gun and I need to get water right there
[02:35:31] I was gonna get dehydrated. They're making excuses
[02:35:33] And the machine can't self-crank the machine can't self-crank
[02:35:37] Just stays in the one inefficient ineffective place mode
[02:35:42] Speaking of machines
[02:35:44] Machines need oil not necessarily krill oil, but
[02:35:48] We need krill oil be plushed if you do it
[02:35:51] If you did
[02:35:53] Jocquat supplements good news. I just took my jacquo krill oil this morning gets up me too
[02:36:00] Every day don't forget
[02:36:02] Can't slack on that thanks for bringing me some krill oil in New York to by the way
[02:36:06] Yeah, you still owe me a bottle for them. Yeah, I don't know problem. I know a guy
[02:36:11] He's name is jacquo and the krill oil is called jacquo super krill and join warfare by the way
[02:36:17] Which is another joint supplement you know maintain the physical capabilities of your body?
[02:36:23] I said don't forget to take it and don't run out by the way
[02:36:28] I ran out before but if you're running out there is a subscription option
[02:36:33] By real best by request. Yeah, you get it lot every month you can get it every month every two weeks. This was cool about because the indicator
[02:36:41] was
[02:36:43] When people order krill oil join warfare guess what they do they order more yeah, and then they order more and so then the request
[02:36:51] We're can we just put it on subscription so there
[02:36:53] I mean, I don't I just take three of them three of each boom, but I'd never read like how much should I be taking this a little bit more like strong
[02:37:01] Right like this more I I'll tell you what I take I take three of each in the morning and
[02:37:08] I take three
[02:37:10] Yeah, I know that's good and that's fine, but what is the recommended you also talk like I that you know orders the 40 out of stay
[02:37:17] Two more is better
[02:37:20] After 40 are I would say I would say depending on your way, but I'd say like two and two take two of each in the morning
[02:37:26] Two of each at night and also you can also do this you can also you know
[02:37:31] See where you're at right like you know what it feels like when you haven't been taking like you yeah, so then up the dose
[02:37:37] That's right, I've been real real confident with what I'm at yeah, I mean two three three for me not twice it one one time
[02:37:44] Three in three boom morning
[02:37:46] I gotta get on the subscription. Let's get I like that option because I I run out and
[02:37:51] And then it takes you know days and yeah
[02:37:54] And you well that's what sucks it takes like three days right three days your like how might oh
[02:37:59] I haven't been taking it and then you got to get back on it and it takes another couple days
[02:38:04] It's whack get some subscription if you're into it
[02:38:08] We won't you get that anyways all right that so well this more stuff what yeah
[02:38:13] Yeah, if you want to go get it right now origin main.com. That's where you get it also at origin mean.com
[02:38:19] Also jocos supplement it's called discipline it's a pre mission
[02:38:25] Cognitive enhances micro dose of
[02:38:27] Caffeine if you're into it just like jocco wait to life. You're all just in the bottom just sample so
[02:38:35] Yeah, see tasty which is I mean maybe yeah, I mean again I know I said it before but
[02:38:42] It doesn't seem like you're all like focused on taste because you're not focused on looks
[02:38:46] No, seems same not at all yeah, but you like the taste of yeah
[02:38:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah, and make sure stuff tastes good apparently, but it is good stuff
[02:38:55] I
[02:38:57] Take that one every day too. When do you take it morning now pre
[02:39:02] Pre-day life three day man, you know why the way I see it is like there's no caffeine or there's not like huge amounts of caffeine
[02:39:09] So it's like okay if I'm gonna take a little dose. Yeah, I rip that off from 10 first
[02:39:15] My kid they talk about micro dosing LSD and micro dosing
[02:39:19] Psycho drugs whatever sounds cool. That's not really my thing
[02:39:23] Yeah, well I'll take a little micro dose of caffeine 15 milligrams sure
[02:39:28] But give you a little glimpse into this spirit world
[02:39:32] I don't think you to do it. Well the LSD might yes for sure. Did not get some of that
[02:39:37] That's what it's gonna be. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[02:39:40] Let me get some of that some time. I just figured the like the cognitive
[02:39:44] And enhancing nutrients. I figure that's like a thing that's not like a drug
[02:39:50] Right the nutrient so let's see taking every day so you brain is just generally more capable
[02:39:57] It's just what I figured maybe that's why he's answering all these good questions. They got the discipline
[02:40:00] And the man the neurons are firing I've been on it. That's why I got those stripes
[02:40:06] 19% increase in performance
[02:40:08] Thanks for and then the rest of your to do that by the way also anyway
[02:40:13] Get them at origin mean dot com also at origin mean
[02:40:15] dot com is where you get your key straight up
[02:40:22] You have an origin key. I do have an origin key in there. They're awesome. I got comments on all the time
[02:40:26] They're they're great geese they're they're super lightweight but they're super strong and and
[02:40:31] Yeah, definitely my favorite key. I'm looking at get another one mine two and made an America by the way
[02:40:36] Brian emailed me yesterday. You might think that's the best thing about origin geese
[02:40:40] That it's made in America, but then it's not because we get the gene you realize that yeah, it's awesome
[02:40:45] Yeah, because if it was made in America and then you were like cluster full
[02:40:49] I was so lucky the other night. I was rolling in the deaf key
[02:40:54] Sir, yeah
[02:40:56] The interesting thing we obviously we know a lot of fashion guy right well. I mean clearly
[02:41:01] I'm not a fashion
[02:41:02] Yeah, we can we can tell you want to see your stories you tell life tell stories about my fashion
[02:41:07] Asked in 1987 tape of jeans and a dinner combat boots. Hey, that's how I roll
[02:41:14] But when you put on the deaf key
[02:41:17] Everyone says something. Why is that it's just because it looks because it's not flashy
[02:41:22] It just says this morning was freedom and then it says get out of the house
[02:41:25] In the back. That's it every time I walk by people when I'd walk by then I'd hear going get after it
[02:41:30] Yeah, yeah, and you know what Pete is like that though
[02:41:33] He has like an element of fashion in his stuff. No, I got to put him in check on that
[02:41:38] Yeah, I could go back and forth a little bit and like hey you got to put that in check. You know you want it because he made some
[02:41:45] He made some spats. Oh, yes, which is an approved term now. Yes, wait compression pants compression pants tights
[02:41:52] Is what's your friend call them
[02:41:54] Spada but anyways, he made something that was it like leggings
[02:41:57] No, they're jeans with their legs. I know this because my daughter has some and it's his jeans
[02:42:04] Like what does he know? He knows you don't know the leggings are come on
[02:42:08] They're like leggings slash jeans
[02:42:11] Well, yeah, Pete has more fashion sense because he's got that whole design thing going on
[02:42:17] Like he's a designer. Yeah, he's a creative. I know you listen feet
[02:42:20] You know you're all designing stuff up there me. I'm like make it black. Yeah. Yeah
[02:42:25] Oh, what can we add to it more black and what kind of shape be you want in the waist lighter?
[02:42:29] You look like I don't know but that can stuff but Pete's like I don't worry
[02:42:31] I got it and that's why until he designed the
[02:42:35] Multicolored spats. Well, that's just like just taking it again
[02:42:39] I can't even I can't even I might I have to put myself in check here because I realize that that is beyond my domain of competency
[02:42:47] Right there. That is a way beyond my domain of competency
[02:42:49] So if you want to get those spats go for it
[02:42:52] Being it but to Pete's credit guess what they have now black black spats. There you go if you need them
[02:42:59] You can get them boom, but even he's even the other guise though people before I got the deaf one
[02:43:05] People would be like oh, that's a nice guise. Well, what's really interesting is when you see the weave
[02:43:09] Yeah, weave is what makes it
[02:43:12] Gorilla leaf. Yeah, but there's like this little pattern in the bag and actually the first one of the first ones
[02:43:17] I actually held was yours life because you you've got an origin guise for a long time
[02:43:20] Yeah, because you asked me a long time ago before I was even with origin you're like hey, what kind of geisha
[02:43:25] I said get a damn origin
[02:43:26] You have this amazing awesome company you were telling me about it
[02:43:28] And yeah, you know, you went and got one I went ball one and I was like
[02:43:32] Amp this thing is nice, but yeah, this is a pattern. All right cool. We get it. Sorry
[02:43:36] What I'm just saying?
[02:43:37] Even though he don't care about the fashion and Pete will sneak it in there just for like an appropriate amount of fashion
[02:43:41] I got to watch out for Pete subtle fashion. It's good keep it up Pete. I think also some rash guards there all made America and some other stuff
[02:43:49] Check it out if you like something get something origin main.com is the upside also
[02:43:56] On it dot com slash chocolate. Okay on it. This is where I get my kettlebells kettlebells
[02:44:00] Yeah, I get a bus. Yeah, so I got the whole set primal bells all that stuff also
[02:44:06] Maces and other workout stuff if you want to you want to switch it up
[02:44:10] You don't do a boring workout anymore or you're bored with your workouts switch it up on it dot com slash chocolate check out the workout
[02:44:15] It's good get something
[02:44:17] Also when you buy extreme ownership
[02:44:21] Way the worry kid or any of the books jockel may or may not review on this podcast
[02:44:27] Don't worry I organize all those books
[02:44:30] I made it shirt too by the way. It's a whole no story. I'll go into that later
[02:44:33] But I organize all the books by episode by the way
[02:44:37] Get them through there good way to support it. We'll take you to Amazon get your book it whatever else you're getting and you know carry on lawnmower
[02:44:43] Guide them no sadly a lot of lawnmowers people buy in lawnmowers ready for spring yeah
[02:44:49] Through the Amazon click through yeah, I think I'd say they're very to support can you buy a driving lawnmower because when I think lawnmower
[02:44:55] I think
[02:44:56] Dry Amazon you probably can probably
[02:44:58] I can't chop you here
[02:45:00] I bought a leaf blower and I'm not joking
[02:45:03] There you go my daughter plays a
[02:45:06] Retarded one can you get an 84 millimeter
[02:45:09] Recoil us rifle Carl Gustaf and I don't know so no, no, you gotta go somewhere else show
[02:45:15] That is the damn shit one of my buddies was asking me the day he was gonna go shooting and he's a he's a British guy
[02:45:22] And his name is English Peter and sure and English Peter he's like
[02:45:28] Call him English Peter and his nickname English Peter P
[02:45:31] E
[02:45:32] H
[02:45:33] English Peter and English Peter was gonna go shooting with someone and he says hey, you don't want to go
[02:45:38] He says hey, I'm gonna go shooting but you like come maybe we could work on some cover and move
[02:45:43] Hey, and I was like I was like I can't make it and then I saw him later and
[02:45:48] I said oh, how was the shooting he said I wouldn't get to go mate or couldn't go
[02:45:52] Go
[02:45:53] And I said oh, that's a bummer. I said you're gonna like and he goes I really want to shoot is like the RPG
[02:45:59] And I was like that's gonna be a little tricky
[02:46:02] Yeah, yeah, I know we can check Amazon for a blast
[02:46:04] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Amazon. I don't think they provide that kind of stuff
[02:46:10] But if they do hey whatever, you know when you buy your book buy one of those cool also
[02:46:15] Subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already stitch your iTunes Google play
[02:46:21] Spotify
[02:46:23] You know Spotify I do
[02:46:25] There's some more you know what there's a bunch of other podcast apps and I don't even know what their names
[02:46:30] All right, you need to start tweeting the the locations of those. I gotta figure them all out. Yeah
[02:46:35] Well and there's a bunch yeah, and they're coming out new ones. It's like this just you'd think
[02:46:41] We kind of said before you'd think oh, I think right that's where podcasts are but podcasts
[02:46:45] The podcast yeah, hey, what's interesting and I haven't seen this factually or I don't know where the number came from
[02:46:50] So like two years ago
[02:46:52] 18% of America was listening to podcasts 18 like when we started that's the number I got I was like researching
[02:46:59] Oh how many people I was into it right now? So it's been two years
[02:47:02] 48% of America's listening to podcasts and that right there is explosive growth. That's pretty amazing because it's a great medium
[02:47:08] Yeah
[02:47:10] Yeah, it's like kind of like having a conversation well I guess it depends on the podcast, but yeah, I agree fully
[02:47:15] So yeah, subscribe if you want good way to support also YouTube subscribe to YouTube if you want if you're interested in the video version of this podcast
[02:47:23] We ever guess live babbin the guests episodes
[02:47:27] That's when people watch them typically mostly mostly yeah, well, I don't want yeah, not even really mostly
[02:47:32] I'm just saying we see more people watching the episodes with with guests
[02:47:37] I want to see what they look like a pair of hair
[02:47:39] Yeah, unless if you're interested in that and excerpts if you don't want necessarily watch the whole podcast
[02:47:44] You watch just like little clips of it or whatever you share with your friends whatever we provide that as well also
[02:47:50] Enhanced excerpts that's what we're calling them now. Okay, so I'm gonna do anyway various video types on there
[02:47:56] And you can you I've seen you've been a little bit more you're still throwing more punches now
[02:47:59] You're here. Let me go a little bit more. Yeah, then go more. Yeah, we're gonna keep that going so yeah
[02:48:05] There'll be more clips to choose from you know you don't listen more watch whatever. Yeah, so yeah subscribe good way to support
[02:48:12] Also jocquoise store it's called
[02:48:15] Jocquoise store of course jocquoise store.com. That's where you can get
[02:48:19] This clinical freedom shirts
[02:48:21] Victory MMA shirts someone jocquoise everyday
[02:48:26] While we do the podcast and otherwise and
[02:48:29] You know get out anyway this shirts on those podcast shirts jockel gear shirts
[02:48:35] Also rash guards also hoodies also hats
[02:48:37] Did you mention a new shirt is there a new shirt I mentioned new shirt is it out because I haven't approved or seen anything
[02:48:43] No, you'll approve on the roof. It's good. I'll theorize. Yeah. Yeah. It's in the limbo right now, but I am very
[02:48:48] We're confident it's like the patches. He's secretly want you to do it. Yeah, yeah
[02:48:53] Now this one is gonna openly I think you'll approve because there's no colored shirts
[02:48:58] Okay, yeah, approved and then you know
[02:49:01] Actually it's called back to the book
[02:49:03] No surprise we talked about it before but I think it's coming along with a few layers on there and
[02:49:08] You know I'm gonna go ahead and off right off for it up. Yeah
[02:49:11] You can't release it until there's enough layers. Yes. No, yeah
[02:49:15] Layer list shirts are on a proof who is the most the shirt that I designed is the most layered shirt is that correct?
[02:49:21] Yes, I think that's good
[02:49:23] That's good
[02:49:25] You submitted quite easily. Yeah, it's true the truth. You have the Woody call it the gift of truth or what it was it?
[02:49:30] I don't know you know when when they're like hey, what if the our competition is gossiping about us?
[02:49:36] You have the oh, yeah, they have the big weapon. Yeah, the web stream truth the high ground
[02:49:40] Yeah, so you got numbers on your site none the less
[02:49:42] Jockels door.com. That's where you can get all the cool stuff. Check it out if you want something get something also psychological warfare
[02:49:50] If you know what that is it's an album with tracks jocquat tracks
[02:49:56] When you run into those moments of weakness and your campaign against weakness
[02:50:01] Speaking of which
[02:50:02] So I'm getting my car you know I've got thousands of songs of my iTunes
[02:50:06] Yeah, I get my car. You know how to it I have my Bluetooth on and it realized it
[02:50:10] But it just automatically synced up my truck. I jump on my truck and I didn't realize the radio was it kind of a high ball
[02:50:18] Apparently I think my kids were by screaming in the back seats. I'll play like some kid tunes, but I get in there
[02:50:25] I get in there and and all of a sudden it's like joccos voice
[02:50:29] I mean I get it I'm not paying attention back and up and it's like it's kind of where does discipline come
[02:50:35] And it of all the random you know thousands of songs that I have on my iTunes that comes up
[02:50:41] I was like what are the odds and it was actually something I needed to hear at that moment
[02:50:45] And to remind me to give back on the path. So there you go. That is something that's extremely helpful perfect and
[02:50:53] The universe
[02:50:55] Universalized
[02:50:56] I got go Charles for that and because echo Charles originally said to me like hey, what do you do here and I answered him some question?
[02:51:04] It was like when I skip work. Yeah, what do you he's equal? How do you not skip workouts? And I was like I bump up a bump up a
[02:51:09] He's like bro
[02:51:10] We need to record that and put it out so people can listen to it
[02:51:14] He's like and you should answer the rest of me should about what what how do you get out of that charge?
[02:51:17] I was just all right ask me the questions and that's where came from echo Charles. Yeah, a little additional thing
[02:51:22] You know how the kind of enough you've run into this where you're like I have
[02:51:27] Confused or I don't have the answer for this thing
[02:51:29] So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask jockel what is just what is he think right as you're asking him you're like, oh, I know what he's gonna say right
[02:51:36] So this one he was like, oh, I know what this guy's gonna say right now
[02:51:39] You should stop being weak or something like that so it's more like I get it stop being weak. Okay, but
[02:51:47] There's a little bit more to that like what do you say like what do you think or whatever?
[02:51:50] You know, I'm like all right. Yeah, we're gonna record that and
[02:51:53] And these jockel tracks they have it for anything not just skipping workouts for procrastination getting up early all this stuff
[02:52:00] So it's kind of like
[02:52:02] Even if your volumes not turned up. It's kind of like jockel's actually telling you like how does not skip the workout?
[02:52:07] It's good. It's encouragement. Yeah, yeah
[02:52:11] Yeah, I was going to be as happen people always like oh, you should make a thing of you yelling at me to get out of bed
[02:52:16] Yeah, you know
[02:52:18] I'm not the thing that would work but it would only work like a few times after while it's kind of like
[02:52:24] You know, you know, it's like cool
[02:52:26] Shut up according to jockel yelling, but if you're you know how like you're talking like you know
[02:52:30] You know, it's like it's kind of like you're explained
[02:52:32] Practically you know like this is this what's going on this?
[02:52:35] Which kind of thing. It's enough of reminder of like hey get back on the path
[02:52:39] Yeah, yeah, there you go, but yeah, good one get that one on
[02:52:44] iTunes but basically anywhere where they sell in people
[02:52:47] Yeah, yeah, it's available
[02:52:49] Cool, I'm pretty surprised. It was the porch the also when you're on Amazon you can get jockel white tea now the good thing about there's some good things and bad things about jockel white tea
[02:52:58] The bad things or is you got to mix it up with hot water that can take a little extra time the good things is
[02:53:04] Once you drink about a half a cup of white tea and this is what we're finding now when you drink about a half a cup of white tea
[02:53:10] You are then able to deadlift 8000 pounds a lot of people wondering how much you had to drink and they answer
[02:53:17] You can drink a half a cup and you're there. So you can get jockel white team and it's also legal
[02:53:24] Which a lot of people are trying to get it out loud right now by the you know the athletic commission and the Olympics
[02:53:29] They don't want people
[02:53:30] Break out of records and everything so yeah, they're trying to just ban it, but get it while you can right get it while you can before it gets banned
[02:53:37] Before it gets banned and then you're just done also some books
[02:53:41] The books that I read on the podcast for sure. There's also book called a lot of the books that read the podcast are for adults clearly
[02:53:48] a lot of them are very you need a mature audience
[02:53:51] But kids also need to know how to get on the path and am I right you got kids kids kids need to know how to get on the path how they're gonna get on path well
[02:54:00] Number one they can get the book way the warrior kid and
[02:54:03] They can get on the path with that and now there's another book coming out. It's way the warrior kid
[02:54:09] Two
[02:54:11] sequel the sequel could it be a jaws to fail
[02:54:17] There's always that chance if I would have listened to my publisher
[02:54:23] Yeah, cuz what do they want to do they want you to turn out? Hey you got a little bit going here
[02:54:29] Let's get another one. That's right the wave right and
[02:54:32] By the way, let us help you shaping it where we think with this could go. Oh, so you just want to take it down that path
[02:54:38] No, we're not going down that path
[02:54:40] Life's hard
[02:54:41] Mark's gonna face some more struggles and he does
[02:54:46] Luckily's got an Uncle Jake comes and help him out way the warrior kid marks mission you can pre-order it right now
[02:54:52] It comes out April 24th
[02:54:54] is the date that it comes out you can get that also
[02:54:59] If you don't you want to get on the path stay on the path be on the path
[02:55:03] Move down the path
[02:55:05] You can get a book called this when he goes freedom field manual
[02:55:09] Which echo just apparently knows all about field manuals my favorite kind of man. Yeah, yeah favorite kind of manuals
[02:55:14] This is gonna help you stay on the path. That's what it's gonna do
[02:55:18] Not only what you should think about in a section called thoughts, but all of the actions you should take if you
[02:55:24] Want to proceed to get stronger
[02:55:28] Faster
[02:55:29] smarter and all around better and if you want the audio version don't look for it on audible because it's not there
[02:55:36] This is an
[02:55:38] Album also with tracks and it's available in MP3 format
[02:55:44] From Amazon music from Google play from other MP3 platforms
[02:55:51] And actually life, let's talk a little bit about
[02:55:54] I don't know a couple books we wrote a little company we got maybe a little event that we're doing
[02:56:00] First of all most if you want a dive deeper in the leadership principles that we've been talking about and referencing getting extreme ownership
[02:56:07] That's we have people ask us like hey, where did you make mistakes in your career?
[02:56:10] We wrote a whole book about them. That's what extreme notions about the mistakes we learn on the battlefield the things that happen to us
[02:56:16] What we learn from them and then how that a principal applies to business in life
[02:56:21] So go get that book on Amazon or anywhere that you can buy books and if you're like me and you're super busy and you don't have a lot of time to read
[02:56:28] Then you can get the audible book the audio book. It's on audible. It's on anywhere and
[02:56:33] Get that version and we read it by the way. We read it James Earl Jones wasn't available
[02:56:39] So
[02:56:40] That's Batman was we we we had to read it. I didn't realize I was the Texas Batman until people were listening to this book
[02:56:46] Yeah, yeah, you are that's where that was born on social media
[02:56:49] I hear good things about the audio version. No, there's a little there's little surprises in the audio version
[02:56:55] That it once again. We didn't listen to our publisher our publisher was like well, that's kind of weird to put that well
[02:57:00] We well, what would you rather hear for gunfire?
[02:57:04] You know me going pop pop pop pop pop pop or would you rather hear gunfire?
[02:57:07] What would you rather hear for an explosion life going?
[02:57:10] Come on or would you rather have an explosion?
[02:57:12] What would you rather have for the call to prayer?
[02:57:15] Life talking about the call to prayer coming because it's you can be pretty eerie in those situations
[02:57:20] Or would you rather actually hear it?
[02:57:22] So this what would you call that?
[02:57:25] Audio theater sure you make it into call that
[02:57:29] Yeah, audio theater okay and they did a great job with that with the audio book so get that that's certainly an option as well
[02:57:36] And if you have a company you want to work work with us
[02:57:40] Ash long front that's our that's our company Ash long front and if you're looking to
[02:57:45] Impumate these leadership programs into your team learn from us learn learn those same principles that we talk about
[02:57:52] Then that's what we do that Ash long front is we we come out and work with your team
[02:57:58] we and
[02:58:00] We come out of work with your team and and get these principles applied to your particular challenge is that you can lead and win on your battlefield
[02:58:07] And that's just that that what Ash long front is it's our company. It's Jaco. It's me
[02:58:12] It's Dave Burke. It's J. Peter Nell guys that you know from from this podcast and on a whole team of folks
[02:58:17] It's Jaco talk about the tank where we talk about these leadership problems we solve those problems and
[02:58:23] And we help you lead and win and that's awesome. We love that so if you're interested in and
[02:58:28] Working with us go to Ash long front.com and of course the monster which we talked about this is the ultimate leadership conference
[02:58:34] And we've had four of these so far every single one of them have sold up every single one of us sold out
[02:58:40] So don't wait if you were interested in coming
[02:58:43] We're only doing two this year. We're only doing two we had a lot going on for us and we said we're gonna do two
[02:58:48] Amazing monsters
[02:58:49] That's what we're gonna focus on we did three last year, but we're only doing two this year and that's in Washington DC
[02:58:54] May 17th and 18th and that's in San Francisco October 17th and 18th and that's it
[02:59:00] If you want to if you want to come and be a part of the monster go to extremotorship.com and get register and we'll see you there
[02:59:07] And until the monster if you want to
[02:59:10] Kind of continue this conversation that we're having right now you can find us continually
[02:59:16] Conversing
[02:59:17] on the interwebs
[02:59:20] on Twitter
[02:59:22] on Instagram me
[02:59:24] and on that face he ball
[02:59:30] Life is at life babbin echo is at echo Charles and I am at jockelwillink echo Charles anything else
[02:59:38] No self correcting machine
[02:59:42] That's what happens when you start doing the extreme ownership thing
[02:59:45] That's the added layer I gathered from today legit. I like it. Thanks for how June
[02:59:49] Claire why always good to see you. Thanks for having me may be not always but they've any closing thoughts
[02:59:57] Good to be on again. We'll get forward to the next time. I suppose we'll do one more of when we're up at the
[03:00:01] monster we'll talk more maybe we'll talk more about
[03:00:05] Probably talk a little bit about extremotorship maybe we'll talk a little bit more about the new book
[03:00:09] Which would be done
[03:00:10] for the most part by then awesome obviously thanks for coming on thanks to everyone out there especially those of you who are out there in uniform
[03:00:21] Who have basically said
[03:00:25] I am willing to give everything I have for freedom we're here today because of you
[03:00:31] So thank you. Thank you to the police and the law enforcement and the firefighters and the paramedics and the rest of the first responders
[03:00:37] That do their job
[03:00:41] everyday
[03:00:43] Every day to make sure that we are safe here at home and everyone else out there that's listening and sharing and supporting this podcast
[03:00:54] Thank you
[03:00:56] but
[03:00:58] Don't just listen and
[03:01:00] don't just support and
[03:01:03] Don't just share
[03:01:05] but instead
[03:01:09] Wake up every day with a mission
[03:01:13] Wake up every day with a goal to be a little bit better than you were yesterday
[03:01:19] and become the self-correcting machine
[03:01:26] That's not gonna bring you to perfection
[03:01:29] But it's gonna bring you to a place that's a little bit closer
[03:01:33] to get out there and get after it
[03:01:38] and until next time this is life and echo and jacco
[03:01:42] out