Jocko Podcast 112 w/ Jordan Peterson - Life is Hard. 12 Rules for Life.

2018-02-07T22:13:52Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @JordanBPeterson @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:12:58 - Jordan Peterson. 0:32:36 - Stand up straight and be competent. 0:52:44 - Being aggressive overcomes fear. 1:05:20 - Extreme Ownership with your wife, boss, and others. 1:26:13 - Importance of Having thick skin. 1:39:04 - Final thoughts and take-aways. Self Authoring Program:  Find out what you have now sorted out in your life:  SelfAuthoring.com Jordan Peterson's Personality Test:  UnderstandMySelf.com 1:42:32 - Support:  JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual, and Jocko Soap. 2:09:01 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

yeah so subscribe right of you review if you want subscribing youtube we have youtube channel if you didn't know that already um that's where the video version of this podcast resides like that reside good job also excerpts on there if you don't want to listen or watch should i say the whole episode or episodes got some excerpts on there you can just watch little you know little excerpts little tidbits of the podcast little ideas little lessons tips of advice shorter form you know when you take a break at work or whatever check not that you should be watching youtube at work but if you are you watch this boom get back to work more effective probably probably also some other stuff on there i'm gonna try to slowly add more and more what should i say content not just for the sake of adding content by the way because i make videos from time to time very spaced out now we can all there you know i'm trying to get them done then the lessons we're gonna put more and there's gonna be more and more on there it's a new year and we managed this thank god as I told her once the disease started to develop she had rheumatoid arthritis very very seriously I said to her when she was a little kid said look kid this is gonna be rough man this is gonna be rough and and here's what you could do to make it worse it's like use your illness as an excuse you do that at your peril you do that a hundred times you will not be able to tell the difference between suffering that stops you from moving forward and an excuse for not living and you will be done it's never never never use your illness as an excuse like if you can't do it you can't do it you know we had a good experience without it's written in the book when we bought her a scooter because she couldn't use public transportation and we were all freaked out about that because like well she has damaged bones and you know broken hip and all of this is like you're gonna buy that kid a scooter yeah you and ten other people so there's even an element of chance at it especially at the end you don't like if you're in the top five you've done everything you can can do to control that outcome there's some element of chance that's going to be the determining variable because you know maybe I don't know maybe they didn't like the way your suit looked on you and that's the only thing that's differentiating you from the other candidate it's like you also don't want to take that to personally it's like what you hit the top five you were shortlisted you're in there man you're in there you're in the gap do that ten times you'll win one of those contests but you got to do it ten times yeah fair enough no wonder you're afraid of that maybe you should just shut up let's see what your life would be like in 10 years if you just shut up it's like you know how about it is now it's like it's gonna be way worse than that because you're gonna shrink and shrink and shrink and your boss is gonna become more and more tyrannical and you're gonna hate every minute of your life you know how like when people say it is what it is what it is what they're you know let's say it is what it is jockels not gonna be anyone but jockel you know jockels jockels right same thing then what you say that you know kind of i say that for the same reason also psychological warfare if you know what that is it's an album with tracks jockel tracks not jockel planning you could lay lay or the violin or what else do you play not play the violin i can't really play the drums too well yeah literally with the first time I had a Skype conversation with Pete my wife is like it sounded like you were talking to yourself right because we and we know there's a four hour conversation by the way dang real now with that that being said I wouldn't have made spats that look like the first spats to be it come out with a million years now here's now here's the funny thing but it's these little things actually matter they actually matter they have to straighten them out because your life especially with your wife is composed of about 50 little things that you do every day and because you do them every day they're not little you can just do the arithmetic you know it's like maybe you don't like where your wife greets you when you come home it's like okay is that relevant is that important and then maybe you can have a conversation about how to make it better and that conversation should be bounded too it's like the chicken thing is a really good my my father-in-law who I really like used to come my wife told me this story he used to come home for lunch eh and his wife would feed him lunch and she always used little plates and it was like they'd been married for 30 years and one day he had this explosion at the table about the fact that he'd had to eat off these damn little plates for 30 years and you know it was much more of a large explosion than it had to be nonetheless it's not of that it's jockel giving you so each track is joc a jockels how should I say tips that really tips they're kind of tips on how to eliminate the weakness that you're feeling at any given moment on your path on your campaign on the campaign against weakness that's what it is so if you're about to skip your workout because you don't feel like it be you don't think you have time or something like this or usually it's because you don't feel like it because you worked out yesterday your kind of sore like you were gonna do squats today but you did a bunch of parapise yesterday so do it do it badly it'll it'll help orient you in your life and we have a preponderance of of scientific data showing for example that people who've done the future authoring portion of this that's the plan are like 30% more likely to stay in university has an overwhelming effect and it works best on people who are doing worst which is really quite cool so there's that I have a personality test at understand myself calm and you can go there and get an analysis of 10 aspects of your personality it's kind of a harsh test like it'll tell you actually what you're like and it'll probably make you angry you know i don't really believe all that i just believe i don't feel like sitting around thinking about what i'm gonna wear in the morning just grab the i have a shirt or guess what i'm sure it's put it on right you have bigger things to make decisions about it think about that's exactly what i'm saying that's what i read too so you guys you and Einstein are like i don't want to say obsessed you're like you just real into to more important things yeah that's what you're testing for it's like can you take it lunch pocket couldn't right because people would laugh at his lunch pocket and he'd get all upset it's like well you have a stupid lunch pocket it's like you know your mum packed it how about it you laugh at yourself and they said oh you know poor lunch pocket it's like because they're all compassion I think no no not poor lunch pocket it's like clue the hell in buddy you had your chance you know that was a desirable job that real crew job in the summer because it was high paying you know like well you sound like this damn puppet what do you think about it's like well if I had to pick someone to sound like probably wouldn't be a puppet and then you're going to have to have a really difficult conversation or put up with it and that might sink your business especially if you're a small business owner so by not confronting the dragon when it's like two inches high and can only you know it's like it can bell-chowed something like a bit lighter you wait till the thing can inflame the whole room it's like well how many times do you have to send out your resume to to move ahead when you're already in a pretty decent job well the answer isn't 10 the answer is like you have to send out five a day every day for the next two years and the the rejection rate will be so close to a hundred percent that that's what it will feel like right oh yeah held him six people held him down to give him a needle it's like what was that so good it had some long-term consequences but see what happened so when you when you do that with people you don't teach them to be less afraid you teach them to be braver that's different and so like I had a client once the door is open on the elevator and she looked and we kind of talked about it before where you wait like wait like this many pounds or you know kilos whatever it's not created equal like if it's shaped in a certain form yeah please do and the more the better really because that'll also help keep my feet on the ground and keep me awake and plus it's funny and like one of the things about life is that a sense of humor that's a good thing to to arm yourself with because sometimes you just don't have anything other than that like my daughter when she recounts her the horrors of her and then you've got that down and the dinner times are like that too like a lot and lots of households meal times are really fractured which is a bad thing or they're bitter it's like I'm here's your goddamn food so let's figure that out so you quit whining and then let's figure out how you actually are oppressed and what might be done about it and then let's figure out a strategy and then let's help you practice the strategy until you get good at it and and let's also map out the consequences of not fixing it because people think well how can I stand up to my boss it's like that's terrible I might risk my jobs like it's like there you go that's what you're doing it's like you know you're you're because you think well I've got the devil I know like my daughter I think I forget how much you've been weighs now like 53 pounds or something like that you think the puns is nothing this far as lifting this for you lift it

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jocco podcast number 112.
[00:00:05] With echo Charles and me, Jocco willing.
[00:00:08] Good evening echo.
[00:00:09] Good evening.
[00:00:14] I had a friend and some day when I can, I will tell you all about him.
[00:00:26] But until then for now, I will say that I could not have asked to pray better friend.
[00:00:36] Did he have faults?
[00:00:38] Sure.
[00:00:40] Don't we all?
[00:00:43] Now most of his faults weren't really that big of a deal.
[00:00:49] But they were raw.
[00:00:53] Not because he admitted to them all openly and directly and naively to be honest, in a sort
[00:01:03] of pointed and heavy handed self critique, he would bear his weaknesses to the world
[00:01:09] and to me and to himself.
[00:01:16] He would speak to me as if I had no faults.
[00:01:23] I would try to explain otherwise, but he wouldn't listen.
[00:01:29] He would only judge himself.
[00:01:34] I'm too emotional.
[00:01:36] He would say, not really.
[00:01:40] I tell him.
[00:01:41] I don't know how to talk to people right now.
[00:01:47] Sure you do, let's say.
[00:01:50] I make the same mistakes over and over and over again, he would say, we all do.
[00:01:55] I would tell him.
[00:02:00] I was better than him at some things.
[00:02:03] We both knew that.
[00:02:06] There were other things he was better at than me, but he always downplayed those things.
[00:02:16] And we both knew that too.
[00:02:21] When we were overseas in a bad place, in a wretched place, he never complained.
[00:02:33] And I gave him every reason too.
[00:02:36] I put him in the worst locations with the greatest possible chances for failure and the
[00:02:41] highest probability for fire and fury and blood and death.
[00:02:51] But despite the enemy and the heat and the living conditions and the fear and the wounded
[00:02:59] men and the screams and the misery that was all around, he did not complain.
[00:03:11] It seemed at times that God himself was trying to test the limits of my friend.
[00:03:20] It seemed like sooner or later the bullets or the bombs would find him.
[00:03:32] But through some incomprehensible miracle he survived through that deployment.
[00:03:42] Now I make no claim whatsoever to understand why things in life unfold the way they do.
[00:03:54] In fact, I must say that many of the things I've seen in the world make no sense to me at all.
[00:04:03] Sometimes it's just utter confusion, no rhyme, no reason.
[00:04:10] Some of the things that I've seen have left me downright disgusted, jaded, repulsed,
[00:04:22] sickened by mankind and the awful and reprehensible things we are capable of.
[00:04:34] But there's another side to that.
[00:04:38] There's another side and there are other people who do their best to redeem all the evil
[00:04:44] our souls are capable of.
[00:04:50] My friend was one of those people.
[00:04:55] After deploying with me and surviving that bloody and violent battlefield, my friend, like
[00:05:01] most of the guys in my old job, he volunteered to deploy again.
[00:05:08] I thought and I told him prematurely and incorrectly that the enemy was done.
[00:05:15] I told him that the war was all but over.
[00:05:17] I told him just do the deployment and sit tight over there and play the game.
[00:05:21] And in a few months we'll be back and we can go surfing and we can play guitar and we can
[00:05:24] tell stories and we can cook stakes and we can surf some more.
[00:05:31] I told him we could carry on when he got home.
[00:05:39] That was a plan.
[00:05:42] It was a good plan.
[00:05:48] But the enemy gets a vote and there was intense violence during that deployment for him
[00:05:57] as well.
[00:05:59] It was similar to what we had experienced together overseas and aggressive enemy held
[00:06:04] bent on killing Americans, mixed in an urban environment with a terrified local populace.
[00:06:12] He told me that the enemy he was now facing wasn't as tactically skilled as the enemy
[00:06:17] we had faced but he said that they were braver and more determined.
[00:06:26] That seemed to concern him a bit more.
[00:06:30] He seemed to feel the odds were that he would die.
[00:06:40] He sent me his last will and testament.
[00:06:45] He was not merouse about it just stating the facts.
[00:06:51] It's bad over here.
[00:06:53] The enemy is aggressive, casualty rates are very high.
[00:06:56] The enemy has new weapons that are extremely capable.
[00:07:04] It didn't look good.
[00:07:08] I waited.
[00:07:11] I waited the long and completely powerless weight.
[00:07:17] One known mostly by mothers and fathers and wives and children that are old enough to understand.
[00:07:27] But a weight also made by the brothers at home that know the risk all too well.
[00:07:40] It was a long weight.
[00:07:49] At my friend's memorial service, his brother told the story.
[00:07:59] My friend had talked to his brother on the phone while my friend was on deployment.
[00:08:05] My friend had explained to his brother in no uncertain terms the situation that my friend
[00:08:11] was in.
[00:08:14] The enemy was extremely hostile.
[00:08:15] The battlefield was chaotic.
[00:08:17] The attacks were frequent and furious.
[00:08:22] It was violence that my friend had not experienced before.
[00:08:28] His voice was war unleashed and it seemed to be heading to an inescapable conclusion.
[00:08:38] And my friend's brother sent this.
[00:08:44] Even through the phone even thousands of miles away as his brother, he sent the darkness
[00:08:54] and the overwhelming finality of the situation.
[00:09:03] And he said to my friend, do you need anything for me?
[00:09:07] How can I help?
[00:09:10] Is there anything that I can do?
[00:09:16] My friend was quiet for a moment and then my friend made one simple request.
[00:09:31] He said, pray for my men.
[00:09:43] Now I want you to think about that level of selflessness, that level of faith and of commitment
[00:10:00] and of care for others, that dedication in the face of fear and violence and death
[00:10:11] to at that moment put others' bris before yourself to do good, to be heroic and strong and brave
[00:10:27] and yet at the same time to be humble and to be willing to sacrifice everything for your
[00:10:33] friends.
[00:10:39] That's a man and I couldn't have asked for a better friend.
[00:10:56] The world can be a horrible place.
[00:11:02] It's filled with violence and treachery and sometimes it seems that the legions of demonic
[00:11:08] powers have the upper hand and the battle between good and evil and it can seem that all
[00:11:14] might be lost.
[00:11:20] And then we remember, we see the light and for me the light comes from the example of others
[00:11:33] in this case, another person, another human being.
[00:11:41] My friend who despite all the powers of darkness stood up and rejected all that wickedness
[00:11:47] and proved that there is hope and there is a path to light and we can get on that path
[00:11:59] if we choose to do so like my friend did.
[00:12:08] And that's life.
[00:12:11] At least as far as I can unravel the mystery, that's what I see.
[00:12:16] We are here and the best thing we can do is stand against the darkness and try to spread
[00:12:22] light in the world.
[00:12:28] That can be a very hard thing to do because life is not easy.
[00:12:36] In fact, it is said and there are very few that would deny that life itself is suffering.
[00:12:47] But there is a way.
[00:12:51] And there is a path.
[00:13:00] And today I have someone on the podcast for a second time that I think can help guide us
[00:13:09] down that path away from darkness and toward the light.
[00:13:17] Dr. Jordan B. Peterson, welcome back to the podcast for a second time.
[00:13:27] Thanks, Jorgal.
[00:13:29] You were on podcast number 98 last time and if anyone wants to stop right now, go and listen
[00:13:36] to 98 if you haven't listened to it yet and that's a good place to start learning about
[00:13:41] you and then you could also just google Jordan Peterson and go from there because there's
[00:13:46] thousands of hours of content of you on YouTube.
[00:13:53] Yeah, there's probably horrible as it is to contemplate.
[00:14:00] Yeah, there probably is.
[00:14:02] I mean, I've contributed about 500 hours probably of lectures and so on but people have
[00:14:08] been cutting it up and there's all the podcasts and YouTube videos that other people have
[00:14:12] made and I think I looked the other day because people keep chopping up the lectures and
[00:14:17] the interviews and making little videos and my son and I tried to estimate it last week.
[00:14:21] It looked like 4,000 people have made videos last week in one week.
[00:14:26] Yeah, it's really, yeah, it's crazy.
[00:14:28] It's really, yes.
[00:14:30] Okay, so you've got a new book out and the book is called 12 rules for life and
[00:14:36] an adult to chaos and one of the key points in the book is life is suffering, right?
[00:14:45] And clearly I think.
[00:14:46] I'm in the level of lens.
[00:14:48] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:14:51] We need to own this on top of that.
[00:14:55] So you need to inflict it.
[00:14:58] You know, obviously my old line of work, we got to see that and we got to see it all the
[00:15:02] time.
[00:15:04] Two things, number one, where is that come from?
[00:15:07] And you don't need to spend a bunch of time on that because you've talked about that so
[00:15:11] much.
[00:15:12] But more important to me, what happens when people miss that point?
[00:15:17] Well, the suffering seems to be built in in some sense and it's a very difficult thing
[00:15:23] to understand fully because the fundamental question is, does being justify suffering?
[00:15:30] It's something like that.
[00:15:32] And there's this old idea.
[00:15:35] I read this, it was a Jewish idea.
[00:15:38] It's kind of a riddle.
[00:15:39] And so it's a riddle about the nature of God.
[00:15:42] And so the riddle runs, what is it being who's omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent?
[00:15:50] So there's the three classical attributes of God, lack.
[00:15:54] I think, well, that's nothing, obviously.
[00:15:58] It's no limitation.
[00:16:00] And so that was the explanation for why God created everything, but more particularly
[00:16:06] why God created man.
[00:16:07] It's that there's something about limitation that adds to completeness.
[00:16:14] Maybe because it provides something to struggle against.
[00:16:16] It's something like that.
[00:16:18] In the book in 12 Rules for Life, I talk about what happens just happened to Superman
[00:16:21] in the 1980s.
[00:16:22] It's like Superman got so powerful that you could bounce hydrogen bombs off his chest.
[00:16:27] You know, he could move planets.
[00:16:28] He's like, and then he got boring at the same time because what are you going to do to
[00:16:32] him?
[00:16:33] Nothing.
[00:16:34] He can just solve every problem instantly.
[00:16:38] Well, there's no story there.
[00:16:40] And you might say, well, who cares if there's a story?
[00:16:42] And that's a reasonable objection.
[00:16:44] Maybe there should just be no story at all.
[00:16:46] That's the Memphis DeFeelian objection to life.
[00:16:48] There should be no story at all.
[00:16:50] But maybe that's not the right answer.
[00:16:53] Maybe it's better to have being even if it requires limitation.
[00:16:58] And if the limitation necessitates suffering, even if the limitation and the suffering necessitate
[00:17:04] evil, that's a separate issue.
[00:17:06] Perhaps there's a way of maneuvering through that a pathway that makes that all not only
[00:17:13] acceptable.
[00:17:14] Let's say at least acceptable.
[00:17:15] That would be a good start.
[00:17:16] But fully justifiable, something that you would voluntarily accept if you had the opportunity.
[00:17:23] It needs your sort of cotton on to that in some sense with his idea of the eternal return.
[00:17:28] He said, you should try to leave each moment of your life so that if you had to live that
[00:17:32] moment recurring for eternity that you would find that desirable.
[00:17:37] It's like, it's a high standard, man.
[00:17:40] But there's a very interesting point there, which is that maybe you can say that despite
[00:17:46] the suffering and malevolence, this is worth it.
[00:17:48] And I think people have experiences like that in their life.
[00:17:52] And you can have more experiences if you live your life, I would say, according, if you're
[00:17:57] on the proper path, then maybe your life can consist of almost nothing but experiences
[00:18:02] like that.
[00:18:03] Now, I say that knowing full well that people get cut off at the knees and that life can
[00:18:09] be very arbitrary and hard and that everyone is prone to the negative consequences of
[00:18:17] deceit and betrayal, all of those things.
[00:18:19] I mean, the book, the book, 12 rules for life in some sense is a very dark book, but
[00:18:24] it's not exactly because the darker the darkness, the brighter the light appears.
[00:18:28] It's something like that.
[00:18:29] And you know, you say, well, no, life's not so bad.
[00:18:33] You can be happy and I think no, life really is bad.
[00:18:36] It's really bad.
[00:18:37] And no matter how bad you think it is, it's actually worse than that.
[00:18:40] You can't really get to the bottom of how terrible things can get.
[00:18:44] People who have post-traumatic stress disorder know that.
[00:18:47] So they've hit something so bad that they cannot live with it.
[00:18:50] They have no idea how to live with it.
[00:18:52] And it hurts them, not just psychologically, but physiologically as well.
[00:18:56] It's very difficult to recover.
[00:18:57] So they have a sense of how bad it can be.
[00:19:00] And then they can hardly live with it.
[00:19:02] But I would say, despite that, and I would say also that this is the central idea in
[00:19:07] the in 12 rules for life is that despite that, bottomless horror in some sense, there
[00:19:13] is a way of being that's powerful enough to both transcend and justify that in some sense.
[00:19:22] And that has to do with the decision to act as if it would be better if things were better.
[00:19:32] That's the first thing.
[00:19:33] And you think, well, that's easy.
[00:19:34] I'd like things to be better.
[00:19:35] No, no, wait a second.
[00:19:37] There's hatred in your heart and there's resentment in your soul.
[00:19:42] And there's bitterness at your position in the world.
[00:19:44] And there's the sense that you're a victim.
[00:19:46] And there's the anger that goes along with that.
[00:19:48] And the desire to hurt, like you have all of that.
[00:19:50] And maybe you have it in spades, maybe it's mostly what you are.
[00:19:54] And because of that, you do not want things to be better.
[00:19:57] You want to spread some misery out of spite.
[00:20:00] And that's what chapter six is about, right?
[00:20:01] Put your house in perfect order before you criticize the world.
[00:20:04] It's about people like the Call of Mind High School shooters.
[00:20:07] And exactly what they were motivated by.
[00:20:09] Because I understand what they were motivated by.
[00:20:11] And so to wish that things were better means that you have to make a real decision that
[00:20:16] despite all the flaws of existence, the suffering and the malevolence that it's best not
[00:20:25] to become embedded by that and to work for the betterment of everyone.
[00:20:29] You, for sure, your family, for sure, your community.
[00:20:33] But perhaps even your enemies.
[00:20:35] You know, if you have any sense, you wish your enemies well.
[00:20:39] It doesn't mean you wish them victory.
[00:20:42] It doesn't mean you don't think they're wrong.
[00:20:45] None of that.
[00:20:46] It means that it would be better if the world was set up so that they didn't have to suffer
[00:20:51] miserably and futile and evenly as well.
[00:20:55] That would be better.
[00:20:56] And so then you can aim at that.
[00:20:58] You know, and the best way to aim at that is, well, first of all, they aim at it to actually
[00:21:02] sort yourself out and think, okay, well, if I could have things the way I wanted them to be,
[00:21:07] that's what I would want.
[00:21:09] And that takes a lot of psychological organization before you can state that without, without
[00:21:17] what would you say, without holding anything back, you know, because there's that part
[00:21:21] of you that better part that wants vengeance and wants to wreak havoc.
[00:21:27] That's there.
[00:21:29] It's hard to constrain that.
[00:21:31] And then, well, the other part along with this, as well as aiming at the highest good
[00:21:36] that's attainable, let's say, is to also decide that you're going to speak the truth
[00:21:42] in that endeavor and to risk that, you know, and because I think those are the things
[00:21:48] that help you aren't yourself properly.
[00:21:50] That's the message on the sermon on the mount by the way, which is aim at the highest
[00:21:54] good that you can conceive of and act and tell the truth in that pursuit, right?
[00:22:02] The other element there is to focus on the day once you've aligned yourself with the heavenly
[00:22:09] star, right?
[00:22:10] Aim high and then focus on the day.
[00:22:12] That's very good advice, because it also embuees everything you do in your daily life
[00:22:16] with significance, that's the why am I doing this?
[00:22:19] To avoid hell, that's a good one.
[00:22:21] Let's start with that.
[00:22:22] It's like to avoid hell.
[00:22:23] And if you have any imagination at all, if you live in the world at all, if you're not naive,
[00:22:28] you know what that means.
[00:22:29] And it's not just the hell that you encounter, it's the hell that you foolishly produce
[00:22:33] around yourself and are then responsible for.
[00:22:35] That's a perfect, a good sort of hell.
[00:22:38] So you want to avoid that, for sure.
[00:22:40] And maybe you want to dare risking making things better.
[00:22:45] It's like that'll embue your life with significance.
[00:22:48] And that significance, you know, one of the things I've discovered learned, I would say,
[00:22:52] over the last 25 years, is that there's always been a mythological idea or an idea and literature
[00:22:58] and philosophy that there was a shining path, you know, that you could walk down and modern
[00:23:04] cynical people believe that that sort of meaning, the meaning that would be obtained by
[00:23:09] walking on that path is somehow a loseery or arbitrary.
[00:23:12] And I don't think there's any evidence whatsoever that that's true.
[00:23:16] I think that sense of meaningful engagement, that what is revealed to you when you're in the
[00:23:23] right place at the right time, doing the right thing, that sense of deep engagement, that
[00:23:28] loss of self-consciousness, that feeling that things are worthwhile, that deep seated feeling
[00:23:33] that things are worthwhile.
[00:23:35] That's the most real thing.
[00:23:37] I think the neurobiological evidence suggests that.
[00:23:41] I really do believe that.
[00:23:43] And so we're in a fortunate time in some sense because we can look at those old metaphorical
[00:23:47] ideas of the of the shining path, let's say the the golden path forward.
[00:23:52] And we can say, yeah, that's actually real.
[00:23:56] It's real.
[00:23:57] That's something.
[00:23:58] And then that's what's so cool about that in my estimation is that and this is why
[00:24:03] 12 rules for life is actually an optimistic book.
[00:24:05] It's like the darkness is real, but the light is stronger.
[00:24:09] It's like, wow, could that be true?
[00:24:12] Could that possibly be true?
[00:24:13] I think it's true.
[00:24:15] So that's a good thing to know, man, that that might be true.
[00:24:18] And you know, when I was talking about my friend in the beginning of this podcast, that's
[00:24:23] why I was talking about it because it was a guy who had every reason to be negative and
[00:24:31] to be dark and to look at the world and just say, this is hell, it's not worth it.
[00:24:36] But instead, what he really did was want to take care of his friends.
[00:24:40] I talked about a woman in my book.
[00:24:42] It's like someone I met as a client when I was just beginning my psychotherapy to practice.
[00:24:47] And she just blew me away.
[00:24:49] I've never forgotten her.
[00:24:50] So she had a horrible life.
[00:24:53] She was unattractive, uneducated, no career, unemployed.
[00:25:00] So shy, you can't even imagine it.
[00:25:03] Like you've met someone shy and anxious.
[00:25:04] It's like they weren't in the same universe as this woman.
[00:25:07] She was so shy that she couldn't walk up to people without looking at the ground,
[00:25:12] hunching over and shielding her eyes.
[00:25:14] So that's how she approached people on the street.
[00:25:17] And she looked like a homeless person as well.
[00:25:21] And so she came to the behavior therapy unit that I was working at.
[00:25:26] And hypothetically for treatment.
[00:25:30] And so what we started doing was seeing if we could get her to stand up a bit and look
[00:25:34] people in the eye more normally so that people wouldn't respond to her as if she was so peculiar.
[00:25:40] You know, so we're trying to just to change your behavior.
[00:25:42] But I started talking to her and she told me a little bit about her life.
[00:25:45] It's like she lived at her where she lived.
[00:25:50] Her mother was, I think she lived with her aunt who was like a violent schizophrenic alcoholic
[00:25:55] who had religious delusions and constantly accused her of being possessed by the devil.
[00:26:00] And she had a really violent and abusive alcoholic boyfriend who used to mistreat this woman.
[00:26:06] So that was like, whole life.
[00:26:07] It's like, yeah.
[00:26:09] And she had been an inpatient in this hospital, the Douglas hospital.
[00:26:13] And that was in the 1980s.
[00:26:16] And the Douglas hospital was a huge hospital, both sides of a university campus.
[00:26:20] And it had had a lot of inpatients, but they were all led out on the streets when medication
[00:26:25] became widely available.
[00:26:26] And when deinstitutionalization was the norm.
[00:26:30] But there was a subset of them who couldn't be deinstitutionalized.
[00:26:33] And these were people that you can hardly imagine.
[00:26:36] So I used to go in the underground corridors in the Douglas hospital because it's very cold
[00:26:41] in Montreal, so they're underground corridors collecting the buildings and down there.
[00:26:44] There would be vending machines and places for people to sit.
[00:26:46] And it was like walking through Dante's inferno.
[00:26:49] Because these were people who were so damaged.
[00:26:51] They'd been in psychiatric institution for maybe two or three decades.
[00:26:55] They could not be released no matter what, even though that's what the hospital was trying
[00:26:59] to do.
[00:27:00] And so it was like Diane Arba, used to go across the United States and photograph strange
[00:27:05] people.
[00:27:06] And she has a whole collection of her photographs.
[00:27:08] They're quite arresting and shocking.
[00:27:10] It was like walking through Diane Arba's universe.
[00:27:14] And so those were the inpatient.
[00:27:15] And she had been an inpatient from time to time, but was well enough so she could also
[00:27:19] go out.
[00:27:20] And it turned out she didn't actually want treatment.
[00:27:23] She had this dog.
[00:27:24] She used to take it for walks.
[00:27:26] And so that was her source of enjoyment.
[00:27:28] And she thought, I really liked this dog.
[00:27:31] And I really liked taking it for walks.
[00:27:33] And maybe I could go to the Douglas hospital and find one of these inpatients and take
[00:27:39] him out for a walk.
[00:27:40] Maybe that would be a good thing for him.
[00:27:41] And so the reason she had come to the behavior therapy clinic wasn't to treat all of her
[00:27:45] problems.
[00:27:46] And like this woman had problems, man.
[00:27:49] Everything about her life was a problem.
[00:27:51] In ways that like a normal person just cannot begin to understand, you know.
[00:27:55] Unless they're in one of those situations in their life where everything is collapsing
[00:27:59] around them.
[00:28:00] And what she did, what she decided was, well, there's someone worse off that me than
[00:28:04] me that I could help.
[00:28:06] It's like, she just absolutely blew me away.
[00:28:09] This poor woman, she had nothing going for her.
[00:28:11] Well, I guess she did it because she had this nobility of spirit that was absolutely
[00:28:15] indomitable.
[00:28:16] It's just I never forgot that.
[00:28:19] It just blew me away.
[00:28:20] How lead her into her situation in a way.
[00:28:22] So no one wants to help her.
[00:28:24] Her aunt that's all crazy and you know what that is.
[00:28:27] She wants to help prop up her boyfriend that's violent.
[00:28:29] No, I don't think so.
[00:28:30] I don't think she wanted any of that.
[00:28:32] She was just one of these people.
[00:28:33] It's like, you know, you can put someone in a situation that's so dire that there's
[00:28:40] virtually no escape from it.
[00:28:41] Like I've seen people in my clinical practice for whom things around them have collapsed
[00:28:46] so badly that there's just no fixing it.
[00:28:50] You fix one thing and two other things break and then you fix those and three other things
[00:28:53] break.
[00:28:54] There's just no bottom.
[00:28:55] And those are often families that have had multi-generational problems.
[00:29:01] Basically rooted the whole community is pathologized.
[00:29:04] The entire family structure is demolished.
[00:29:08] There people don't have any marketable skills and they haven't for generations.
[00:29:12] The whole situation is complicated by drug and alcohol abuse and heavily biologically influenced
[00:29:18] insanity of one form.
[00:29:20] Another usually can join with relatively low cognitive ability.
[00:29:24] It's just hell no matter which way you turn.
[00:29:27] I didn't see her as a contributor to that.
[00:29:30] I mean I'm sure she made her mistakes like everyone else but she wasn't playing martyr
[00:29:35] or victim.
[00:29:37] She didn't come into the clinic to complain, to begin with.
[00:29:42] She was just telling me these were the situation that she lived in.
[00:29:46] She wasn't.
[00:29:48] That isn't what she was there for.
[00:29:49] It's just that we thought she had come for treatment so we were doing background analysis,
[00:29:53] you know, an intake interview and found out all these things.
[00:29:55] It's like any one of those problems is enough to bring most people's lives to a
[00:30:00] shuddering halt and yet that was her vision.
[00:30:03] So the reason she had come to the hospital and she didn't just come to the behavior
[00:30:06] of therapy clinic.
[00:30:07] She had gone around pestering administrators in the hospital to let her take the long
[00:30:12] term inmates out for a walk.
[00:30:13] Now they wouldn't do it for all sorts of reasons.
[00:30:17] But that didn't stop her from thinking it was a good idea and it actually was a good
[00:30:21] idea.
[00:30:22] This was a practical idea.
[00:30:23] Like she could have taken people out on the grounds because the grounds were huge and
[00:30:27] walked them with the dog.
[00:30:28] And it would have been fine for.
[00:30:29] There's such a thing as pet therapy in 1985.
[00:30:32] That's not a huge sort of a head of a heart.
[00:30:33] Yeah, well, right.
[00:30:34] Exactly.
[00:30:35] But she had enough wear with all to notice that, well, that she liked the dog and the dog
[00:30:41] like turned out.
[00:30:42] That was a good thing, right?
[00:30:43] A little bit of love in the world there and that there was nothing wrong with taking
[00:30:46] the dog for a walk and that was kind of harmless and why not have someone long.
[00:30:50] They made her feel good.
[00:30:51] She thought, well, maybe it'll make the right sense of feel.
[00:30:53] Exactly.
[00:30:54] So like, you just got to shake your head.
[00:30:57] Well, that's when I really learned to begin with deeply that there's no correlation
[00:31:01] between intelligence and wisdom.
[00:31:03] And that's actually the case, technically like if you're smart, you can just be like,
[00:31:08] you can be smart and good, but you can be smart and bad.
[00:31:11] It's just a, yeah.
[00:31:12] That's it.
[00:31:13] Well, we used to say, okay, so we'd get these guys coming in the sealed teams.
[00:31:15] That would be for a while we were recruiting just the for the officer candidates.
[00:31:20] We were creating these guys that were, you know, they went to Ivy League schools and they were
[00:31:24] off the charts and 1600 on their SATs and then they were the captain of this and they were
[00:31:28] just these really high achievers.
[00:31:32] And we found that not all of them, but certainly some of them couldn't really function
[00:31:36] in the as a leader in the job because they just didn't have the, I guess the wisdom
[00:31:41] to pull it off, but they couldn't make the personal connections.
[00:31:44] They couldn't develop a relationship.
[00:31:46] The leadership's a complicated thing and it doesn't boil down just two intelligence.
[00:31:49] Yeah.
[00:31:50] And I don't want to make it sound like none of them.
[00:31:51] Or because some were obviously outstanding, incredible leaders, but there are some of them
[00:31:56] that would be the same kind of recruit, but they just would just missing whatever piece
[00:31:59] that was.
[00:32:00] Well, intelligence and character are definitely not the same thing.
[00:32:03] They're not the same thing.
[00:32:04] I mean, all things considered if you're going to pick one of two leaders, if I would
[00:32:09] pick the smarter leader over the dollar leader, if all other things were equal, you know,
[00:32:13] because, well, because someone who's more intelligent can strategize more rapidly and
[00:32:18] can handle more variables, right?
[00:32:20] And perhaps can even handle, well, can handle a more rapid rate of transformation as
[00:32:25] well, and sometimes that's actually crucial.
[00:32:27] But character and intelligence are, are, they're clearly not the same thing.
[00:32:32] And character is actually, well, I don't think anything trumps character.
[00:32:35] That's that.
[00:32:36] Character is everything.
[00:32:37] So, you know, it's interesting that you, with this, this woman that you talked about
[00:32:41] in the beginning, you talk about how she's, you know, she's crowd-stown and she's looking
[00:32:46] down with the ground and all that.
[00:32:47] So it's interesting in your rules, obviously, the first rule is to stand up straight
[00:32:55] with your shoulders back, right?
[00:32:57] Well, when you get, for lack of a better word, indoctrinated, in fact, there is no better
[00:33:01] word.
[00:33:02] When you get indoctrinated into the military, that's exactly what's happening.
[00:33:04] And guess what?
[00:33:05] You get taught one of the first things that you get taught is how to stand, how to stand
[00:33:10] properly.
[00:33:11] And you know what they tell you?
[00:33:13] Chin up, chest out, shoulders back.
[00:33:15] They make you stand like that.
[00:33:17] There's no coincidence to that is there.
[00:33:18] Not at all.
[00:33:19] No, no.
[00:33:20] It's a, you could say it's a dominant stance, but that's not the right way of thinking about
[00:33:25] it.
[00:33:26] Although it is a dominant stance, the reason to adopt it is not because it's a dominant
[00:33:30] stance.
[00:33:31] It's a competent stance.
[00:33:33] And competence tends to make you dominant, at least in hierarchies that are functioning
[00:33:38] properly.
[00:33:39] Because you want, there are hierarchies, which is what I outlined in chapter one.
[00:33:42] And I say the hierarchies are old.
[00:33:44] They're not sociocultural constructions.
[00:33:47] They're not a secondary consequence of capitalism in the free market.
[00:33:50] All of that is absolute nonsense.
[00:33:53] It couldn't be more wrong.
[00:33:55] And as an indication of that, I point out that Lobsters, whom we diverged from on the evolutionary
[00:34:01] front, a third of a billion years ago, have hierarchies.
[00:34:05] And that the neurochemical systems, the neurological systems that Lobsters have run
[00:34:11] well, that mediate their hierarchical status, run on the same chemical, that the neurological
[00:34:17] systems that we use to mediate hierarchy run on.
[00:34:20] So that's just absolutely mind boggling.
[00:34:23] But Lobster, like a victorious Lobster, stretches out and adopts a more dominant post.
[00:34:28] Because his serotonin levels go up as he becomes more and more victorious.
[00:34:33] And that governs posture.
[00:34:34] Well, and so to stand up straight with your shoulders back is to open yourself up to
[00:34:39] the world.
[00:34:40] If you're not in the defensive crouch of a prey animal, technically speak it, and that
[00:34:45] is the circuitry that's governing posture.
[00:34:47] It's prey versus predator or something like that.
[00:34:51] And to stand up like that is to expose yourself to the world, but in a bring it on
[00:34:58] sort of manner, not precisely combative, but let's say courageous.
[00:35:03] And your posture announces that.
[00:35:05] And it doesn't just announce that to other people.
[00:35:08] It announces that to yourself and it can start.
[00:35:11] It can be one of those things that can start a virtuous cycle.
[00:35:15] Ocaric, which is partly why it's taught in the military.
[00:35:18] Get these guys that come in.
[00:35:19] They're all slumped over.
[00:35:20] They don't know how to stand up.
[00:35:21] They're looking at their feet.
[00:35:22] They're next or bent.
[00:35:23] Like, even if they're good looking men, they don't look good because they're all crunched
[00:35:27] over.
[00:35:28] You see people like this on the street all the time.
[00:35:30] They could be perfectly attractive, except they're completely huddled in.
[00:35:33] And they need to stand up and stretch themselves out.
[00:35:36] And then they can breathe too.
[00:35:37] And that's a competent stance.
[00:35:40] One of the things that the critics of the modern West don't understand about hierarchies
[00:35:46] is that first of all, they're everywhere.
[00:35:48] They're inevitable.
[00:35:49] If you're going to have a distinction of value between things, you have a hierarchy.
[00:35:53] And if you don't want to get rid of the distinction of values between things because
[00:35:57] then you don't have anything to do.
[00:35:58] That's foolish.
[00:35:59] You can't live that way.
[00:36:01] So I say, well, the hierarchies are based on power.
[00:36:05] It's like, no, they're not.
[00:36:07] They're based on competence.
[00:36:09] And there isn't anything more powerful than competence.
[00:36:11] But power isn't tyranny.
[00:36:13] It's not brutality.
[00:36:14] It's not threat.
[00:36:15] It might be the hint of all those things.
[00:36:18] Because I don't think you can be fully competent without being able to hint at those things.
[00:36:22] But hierarchies in the West are fundamentally based on competence.
[00:36:26] It doesn't mean they're not flawed because we miss the mark.
[00:36:29] Lots.
[00:36:30] And there's lots of reasons why perfectly competent people don't attain the position that
[00:36:34] they deserve and that they should have for their benefit in everyone else's.
[00:36:38] The hierarchies are tainted by corruption.
[00:36:41] But fundamentally, they're fundamentally based on competence.
[00:36:46] And that's.
[00:36:47] So with that, this first rule that you put in about book.
[00:36:52] And you're saying that's a cycle that can go backwards.
[00:36:54] So you don't have to have the serotonin first.
[00:36:56] And then you stand up.
[00:36:57] If you stand up straight, you'll somehow increase your serotonin over that.
[00:37:01] Yeah, definitely.
[00:37:02] Definitely.
[00:37:03] So you say you could inject lobsters with serotonin and they start to stand straighter.
[00:37:08] Yeah, you can basically give them anti-depressants.
[00:37:11] So like if a lobster gets defeated in a fight, then he's statistically more likely to
[00:37:15] lose the next fight than you would guess from a telly of his previous victories.
[00:37:19] So that's the first thing.
[00:37:21] If you lose, you increase your risk of further loss.
[00:37:24] But if you win, you increase your risk of future gains.
[00:37:27] That's a very important principle.
[00:37:29] It's a crucially important principle.
[00:37:30] It governs life.
[00:37:31] But yeah, if you take a lobster and he gets all defeated and he's off pouting and won't
[00:37:35] fight anymore because he's having a bad day and you inject him with serotonin, essentially
[00:37:41] give him anti-depressants.
[00:37:42] It's the same thing.
[00:37:43] Then he'll straighten up and he'll go out and have another scrap.
[00:37:46] And I read that, oh, I don't know.
[00:37:48] It's probably at least 10 years ago when I was reading about the neurophysiology of these
[00:37:53] neurochemical systems, that's why I go it onto it.
[00:37:56] It just was another thing that just blew me away.
[00:37:57] I thought, really, you're kidding.
[00:37:59] That circuit is that old.
[00:38:00] It's like it's that old, that's way before there were trees.
[00:38:05] That's how long ago that is.
[00:38:06] So hierarchy is a patriarchal construction.
[00:38:11] How about no?
[00:38:12] How about that's wrong and seriously wrong.
[00:38:15] So I was talking to one of my friends in the last year's show.
[00:38:18] He's got a kid that's wrestling.
[00:38:20] His kid is six years old, I think.
[00:38:22] Dom and he says, you know, he's getting put into the higher category.
[00:38:27] He's kind of getting his butt whip now.
[00:38:29] And I'm really not sure what do you think.
[00:38:30] And I said, well, you want him to win because when he wins, it's more fun.
[00:38:35] And he has more fun.
[00:38:36] So now I have actual more evidence that you should get your kids in a position.
[00:38:40] Again, I think your kids should get beat sometimes.
[00:38:42] Yeah.
[00:38:43] But they should certainly not get beat down all the time.
[00:38:47] Exactly.
[00:38:48] I did that to my kids when my kids first started you, Jitu.
[00:38:50] I put them, oh, you're going to compete because I'm telling you to.
[00:38:53] Yeah.
[00:38:54] And then I'm going to put you in a higher weight class with older kids.
[00:38:57] Because that's going to make you tougher.
[00:38:58] That was my, you know, stupid thinking.
[00:39:00] And now with my younger start, I'm like, no, no, no, you go out and you have fun.
[00:39:04] And you go out and you compete against people that are somewhat equal to you.
[00:39:07] Maybe a little bit below you, maybe a little higher.
[00:39:08] But depending on your mood, time.
[00:39:10] Yeah.
[00:39:11] Yeah.
[00:39:12] Well, that's absolutely.
[00:39:13] Well, that's I think we could, we can think about that also in terms of the conversation
[00:39:17] about meaning that we started to have.
[00:39:19] It's like, if you win all the time, that's meaningless.
[00:39:22] Because, well, I mean, think why?
[00:39:24] Because you want to win.
[00:39:25] It's like, yeah, fair enough.
[00:39:27] So why would winning all the time become meaningless?
[00:39:29] It's because your theory of winning isn't sophisticated enough.
[00:39:33] Because here's how you win.
[00:39:35] You play the game to win.
[00:39:38] But while you're playing, you play in a way so that you get better at the game.
[00:39:41] Right?
[00:39:42] Because you're going to play a bunch of games.
[00:39:43] Well, it's even more than that.
[00:39:44] You play the game to win, but you play it so that you get better at the game.
[00:39:48] Okay, fine, that makes sense.
[00:39:49] So you want to push yourself, right?
[00:39:51] Because that's how you get better.
[00:39:52] And so you need competition to push yourself.
[00:39:53] So you need to have the risk of loss.
[00:39:55] Because otherwise you won't do it.
[00:39:57] But here's an even better way of thinking about it.
[00:39:59] You play the game so that you don't only get better at that game, but you get better at
[00:40:03] the entire set of possible games.
[00:40:06] And that's what you do when you're a good sport.
[00:40:08] It's like, well, so how do you do that?
[00:40:09] Well, partly, you find the proper level of competition.
[00:40:13] So you want to be pushed so that you will make the effort necessary to remove what's useless
[00:40:23] about yourself and to help foster the growth of what's useful.
[00:40:28] And if you do that, then you get the joy of participating in the game towards victory.
[00:40:35] But the extra joy of building yourself more and more strongly at the same time.
[00:40:41] And so when you tell your kid, doesn't matter whether you win or lose.
[00:40:45] It's how you play the game.
[00:40:47] Your kid says, what do you mean by that?
[00:40:49] And you say, I don't know.
[00:40:51] I don't know what I mean by that.
[00:40:54] Because the kid says, I'm supposed to win, aren't I?
[00:40:56] It's like, well, yeah.
[00:40:57] So why does it matter how I play the game?
[00:40:59] It's like, well, then you're stumped.
[00:41:00] Even though you're right, you just don't know why.
[00:41:02] But the reason is, is you want to tell you, here's the reason.
[00:41:05] It's like, we can make this very simple.
[00:41:09] Life is not a game.
[00:41:10] It's a series of games.
[00:41:11] It's actually a series of diverse games.
[00:41:13] Okay, so who's the winner of this series of diverse games?
[00:41:17] Because that's the real question, right?
[00:41:19] Not who wins a game.
[00:41:20] It's like whatever you win a game.
[00:41:22] It's like, if I hold a gun to your head and we're playing chess,
[00:41:25] I could say lose.
[00:41:26] It's like I win.
[00:41:27] It's like, well, that's not how full, obviously.
[00:41:31] So you want to teach your kid.
[00:41:33] You want to help your kid learn to be the winner of the set of diverse games.
[00:41:38] Okay, so what does that winner look like?
[00:41:39] Well, here's the first clue.
[00:41:42] That's the person who keeps getting invited to play.
[00:41:45] So because you win, if people invite you to play all the time,
[00:41:49] you have opportunities coming to you just non-stop.
[00:41:52] And maybe, like, let's say you have 50 opportunities
[00:41:56] and each of them are potentially 50% for you
[00:41:59] and 50% for the other person.
[00:42:01] You think, well, that's pretty good deal.
[00:42:03] And then you think, well, wait a minute, let's flip this around.
[00:42:05] So it's like 60% for the other person and 40% for me.
[00:42:09] I'm gonna be like, I'm gonna go,
[00:42:10] I'm gonna overboard in the generosity.
[00:42:12] You think, well, then what happens?
[00:42:15] Well, then instead of having 20 opportunities
[00:42:16] at every moment, you have like 50 opportunities at every moment.
[00:42:20] And that's what you want for your kids is you want
[00:42:23] all the invisible doors around them to open.
[00:42:26] And you do that by saying, play nobly, right?
[00:42:31] Pay attention to your teammates, pass the damn puck.
[00:42:34] So they get a chance, right?
[00:42:35] Even if you're the best player on the team,
[00:42:37] help the people on your team develop.
[00:42:39] Don't grandstand, right?
[00:42:41] If you have the opportunity to beat your opponent
[00:42:46] 20 to one in goals, doesn't happen very often,
[00:42:49] but it can, especially when kids are playing.
[00:42:51] It's like, well, maybe after you're up seven to one,
[00:42:54] it's like, back off a bit.
[00:42:57] You don't have to humiliate your opponents.
[00:43:00] Because it's what would you say?
[00:43:03] It's contemptible behavior on your part.
[00:43:06] And so, you know that because you go and watch
[00:43:09] a hockey game or something like that,
[00:43:10] and you watch a kid that really knows how to play.
[00:43:13] It's like they're playing like mad to win.
[00:43:15] They're pushing themselves to be better,
[00:43:17] but they're paying attention to their damn teammates.
[00:43:19] And they respect their opponents.
[00:43:22] And you think, well, that's a hell of a kid there.
[00:43:24] It's like, yeah, that's exactly right.
[00:43:26] That kid's going somewhere.
[00:43:27] Do kids ever show, they get so committed.
[00:43:31] Let's say hockey, right?
[00:43:32] You get a kid that's just so committed to winning
[00:43:34] and hockey that he's gonna lose at other games?
[00:43:36] Well, that's another game's in life, right?
[00:43:38] That's another problem.
[00:43:39] Well, that's another problem is like...
[00:43:40] So you could be over-borg.
[00:43:42] Yeah, well, well, the other thing too
[00:43:44] is that with sports, like you could say,
[00:43:46] well, most kids aren't gonna be NHL level hockey players.
[00:43:49] Like, that's impossible.
[00:43:50] Like, maybe you should aim for that.
[00:43:51] I would say probably not, because it's so damn unlikely.
[00:43:54] But whatever, some kids are gonna manage that
[00:43:57] and more power to them.
[00:43:58] Say, well, what are the sports for the rest of the kids?
[00:44:02] And the answer to that is, well, obviously,
[00:44:03] there's the physical discipline and the health
[00:44:05] that goes along with that.
[00:44:06] And the ability to engage in and tolerate competition
[00:44:10] and learn how to be a gracious winner and a gracious loser.
[00:44:13] But a lot of it is correct.
[00:44:15] That all that's part of character building.
[00:44:17] Well, that's what you want.
[00:44:18] You say, well, why build your character?
[00:44:20] It's like, well, how about...
[00:44:22] That's your set of tools for dealing with catastrophe.
[00:44:27] How about that for a reason?
[00:44:29] Right?
[00:44:30] So one of the things I've suggested to my viewers,
[00:44:33] this is the man in particular, but not just the man,
[00:44:36] you should be the most reliable person at your father's funeral.
[00:44:41] That's a good goal, man.
[00:44:43] That's a good goal because everyone's broken
[00:44:45] in a situation like that.
[00:44:46] And you adding to that brokenness and misery.
[00:44:49] I mean, you're gonna be grieving, like, no doubt about it.
[00:44:52] And no kidding.
[00:44:53] But there is a time to step forward with some character.
[00:44:57] You know, it's the same thing.
[00:44:58] You're gonna be at someone's deathbed.
[00:45:00] You're gonna be quibbling with your siblings
[00:45:01] while you're doing that?
[00:45:02] Well, your parents dying?
[00:45:04] It's like, it's bad enough that they're dying.
[00:45:06] That's tragedy, right?
[00:45:07] But you'd can turn that into hell, no problem.
[00:45:10] You just get a bunch of people with no character around a deathbed.
[00:45:13] And it's like, well, it's bad enough,
[00:45:16] but that turns it into something like hell.
[00:45:18] And that happens in people's lives all the time.
[00:45:20] It's like character is everything.
[00:45:22] So, and that's why the wise people of our past tradition
[00:45:26] insisted upon that.
[00:45:28] You say, well, don't lie.
[00:45:29] Well, why not?
[00:45:30] Well, destroys your character.
[00:45:31] Well, so what?
[00:45:32] Well, then you turn suffering into hell.
[00:45:34] Is that what you want?
[00:45:36] Maybe, you know, because people will want that.
[00:45:39] But I would say walk away from people like that, right?
[00:45:44] That's not unless that's what you want, then.
[00:45:48] Yeah, you've got a lot of, I mean, it's interesting
[00:45:51] as since I just got done reading the book, you know,
[00:45:54] I can hear you just hitting the wave tropps
[00:45:56] of all the different rules and they're all interconnected
[00:45:58] about don't lie or tell the truth or at least don't lie.
[00:46:03] And then hang, what's the chapter about hang around with people
[00:46:07] that want to see you do well?
[00:46:08] Yeah, exactly.
[00:46:09] Yeah, yeah, make friends with people who want the best
[00:46:11] for you.
[00:46:12] Right.
[00:46:13] Yeah, so, well, and it's a really, it's a real technical idea.
[00:46:16] So, Carl Rogers, who's a psychotherapist, great psychotherapist,
[00:46:20] had very much recommend his books to people, especially if they
[00:46:23] want to learn to listen because he was really good at teaching
[00:46:26] people how to listen.
[00:46:27] He had this idea that what he would manifest towards his clients
[00:46:31] in therapy was unconditional positive regard.
[00:46:35] And I've always had trouble with that because, well, because you
[00:46:38] don't treat your children, for example, with unconditional
[00:46:41] positive regard.
[00:46:42] You mean, there's no matter what someone says, you're saying,
[00:46:44] yeah, that's a good idea.
[00:46:45] Yeah, that's why it's tricky.
[00:46:47] Well, what he didn't articulate it, I think, as well as he
[00:46:51] might have, what you want to do is for your child is that you
[00:46:55] want the best for the best in them.
[00:46:59] That's what you want.
[00:47:00] And that's what you want from people that you surround yourself
[00:47:03] with.
[00:47:03] Now, they'll hold you to a high standard if that's the case,
[00:47:06] right?
[00:47:06] Because whenever you degenerate in any of the multiple ways
[00:47:10] that you're likely to degenerate, they're going to like,
[00:47:12] whack you on the back of the head and say, you know,
[00:47:14] clue the hell in, you know, you're demeaning yourself,
[00:47:17] you're less than you could be.
[00:47:19] And there's real judgment in it, and it's harsh.
[00:47:22] But with friends, it's the same thing.
[00:47:24] You want friends.
[00:47:26] They're not friends if they're not these people.
[00:47:28] You want friends who, when something good happens to you,
[00:47:31] they're at, that's good for you, right?
[00:47:34] They're happy about that.
[00:47:35] They're not like all better in resentful underground
[00:47:37] and like saying horrible things behind your back
[00:47:39] and telling you how they did something that was better
[00:47:41] and trying to drag you down.
[00:47:43] It's like that's not helpful.
[00:47:45] And then when something bad happens to you and you go to them
[00:47:48] and you say, look, this terrible thing happened to me.
[00:47:50] First of all, they don't try to top it with some like horrible
[00:47:53] thing that happened to them because they don't have the patience
[00:47:56] to listen and second, they're not secretly gloating
[00:47:59] about the fact that catastrophe finally be failure.
[00:48:02] It's like they're actually hurt by it.
[00:48:04] And that chapter is an injunction.
[00:48:06] It's like take a look at the people that are around you.
[00:48:08] And if they're not on this side of what's good for you,
[00:48:13] then walk away because, well, first of all, that's best for them too.
[00:48:18] If you put up with that, all you're doing is enabling it.
[00:48:21] It's like, well, it's okay that you mistreat me in a way
[00:48:24] that's harmful to me and everyone else.
[00:48:26] It's like, actually, no, that is not okay.
[00:48:28] It's not the least bit okay.
[00:48:31] It doesn't mean you shouldn't try to help someone
[00:48:33] when they're down.
[00:48:34] That's a whole different issue.
[00:48:35] What if it's your family?
[00:48:37] So you know, you say, like, walk away, right?
[00:48:39] Yeah.
[00:48:40] Do you still walk away from your family?
[00:48:42] Or do you do if it's necessary?
[00:48:44] Yeah.
[00:48:45] There's lots of different ways of walking away.
[00:48:47] Oh, yeah.
[00:48:47] They'll create boundaries.
[00:48:48] Well, there's that for sure.
[00:48:50] There's that.
[00:48:51] I mean, you sometimes someone's on an
[00:48:54] incorrigible path.
[00:48:56] Like, there's just nothing you can do.
[00:48:58] You know, maybe they're aiming down.
[00:49:00] They're aiming down hard.
[00:49:02] And they're better and everything they do is to produce misery,
[00:49:05] virtually everything.
[00:49:06] And you have to detach yourself from that.
[00:49:08] It's like I always think about it from the perspective of a lifeguard.
[00:49:12] So if you're training to be a lifeguard,
[00:49:14] one of the things that you're trained to do
[00:49:16] is to approach someone who's drowning and panicking.
[00:49:20] And the way you approach them is you put your foot out
[00:49:22] between you and them and you push forward with your hands
[00:49:26] with your foot out.
[00:49:27] And you basically tell them if they're flailing about,
[00:49:29] you say, look, I'm here to help.
[00:49:31] But you have to calm down.
[00:49:32] And then if they cling to you, like in panic,
[00:49:34] you push them away.
[00:49:36] You think, well, that's pretty damn cruel because what if they drown?
[00:49:38] It's like, yeah, what if you both drown?
[00:49:41] That's like not helpful.
[00:49:42] You're there to rescue them.
[00:49:44] They take you down.
[00:49:45] You're both dead.
[00:49:46] It's like fail, right?
[00:49:48] So you say, look, good panicking.
[00:49:50] I'll help you out. But I'm not drowning along with you.
[00:49:53] It's like, well, it's the same with someone in your family.
[00:49:56] It's like, if they're on a downward path and you've done your best,
[00:50:00] you know, you've made your efforts, you've and they're not paying attention.
[00:50:04] They're not changing.
[00:50:05] They say, yeah, well, I'll quit doing this.
[00:50:07] Yeah, I'll quit doing this.
[00:50:07] They tell you the same story over and over and over.
[00:50:10] It's a downhill path.
[00:50:11] You don't trust it.
[00:50:12] At some point, first of all, you stop offering your words.
[00:50:17] That's do not cast pearls before swine, a very, very harsh statement, right?
[00:50:23] But what it means is, if someone, if you're offering words of wisdom to someone,
[00:50:30] in the genuine attempt help and they treat that with contempt,
[00:50:34] then shut up because you're demeaning your words by throwing them away.
[00:50:42] You think, well, how do you help someone who's aiming down?
[00:50:44] Well, sometimes you help them by walking away and saying, look,
[00:50:47] you're aiming down so hard that I am, despite the fact,
[00:50:51] you're my brother, man, it's like, you know, this is killing me.
[00:50:54] You're aiming down so hard.
[00:50:56] I'm not coming along with you.
[00:50:58] And the reason I'm not is to tell you and no uncertain terms
[00:51:01] that what you're doing is so terrible that I will even violate our kinship to oppose it.
[00:51:06] And maybe it'll take them 10 years to wake up to that, you know?
[00:51:10] And that can be the case because, you know, people often have to be hit so many times before they'll
[00:51:17] learn. You see that especially if someone's addicted or otherwise pursuing a pathway that's
[00:51:23] like seriously downhill. So, yeah.
[00:51:27] You cover that pretty well in that chapter where you're saying,
[00:51:31] there's a certain point where you just got to say, you know, we're done.
[00:51:34] Yeah, we're done. Well, it's like, why should I think that you're actually trying to change?
[00:51:39] Maybe you're just telling me, is you're, you tell me the story that you use to justify your own
[00:51:44] idiocy to yourself. And then you tell it to me and you demand that because I'm compassionate,
[00:51:49] I accept it and therefore validate your excuse. It's like, well, that like, it's really hard not
[00:51:54] to get tangled up in that, right? Because if someone who's really in rough shape is telling you
[00:51:58] about why they're suffering, first of all, they're probably about half right in their story.
[00:52:03] But some of its justification and excuse and blaming and all of that failure to take responsibility.
[00:52:09] It's really hard to stand up and say, no, I don't buy that. No, I don't buy that. No,
[00:52:12] you're wrong about that. You have to be a brutal bastard in order to do that. But hey,
[00:52:18] sometimes like surgery is brutal, right? It's brutal, but you're a lot of
[00:52:25] cut you open and we're going to rip out part of your body, right? Right, right? Exactly.
[00:52:30] Right, precisely. And so, so this chapter about, you know, only making friends with people who
[00:52:37] want the best for you, that's a brutal chapter. But it's right, unfortunately.
[00:52:45] Going to your book a little bit, I'm going to pick up, going back to that first
[00:52:51] thought. Standing up means voluntarily accepting the burden of being. Your nervous system
[00:52:58] response and an entirely different manner when you face the demands of life voluntarily.
[00:53:03] You respond to a challenge instead of bracing for a catastrophe. You see the gold, the dragon
[00:53:09] hordes instead of shrinking in terror from the all-to-real fact of the dragon. You step forward
[00:53:15] to take your place in the dominance hierarchy and occupy your territory,
[00:53:21] manifesting your willingness to defend, expand and transform it. To stand up straight with your
[00:53:27] shoulders back as to accept the terrible responsibility of life with eyes wide open. The reason I
[00:53:35] pulled that one out in particular is the feeling that you have as a soldier or as a military person.
[00:53:42] A feeling that you have going on an offensive operation? Where let's say you're a bad guy and
[00:53:46] I'm going to come and get you. First of all, you don't know. And I'm sneaking up on you and I have
[00:53:51] all this power, right? I feel good about it. I'm going to get you. The opposite of that is when I'm
[00:53:58] doing a convoy or I'm going on a patrol. We're now the bad guys are out there. They're waiting
[00:54:02] to attack me and that is a defensive posture and you're attitude about that type of thing
[00:54:06] is bad. Now we were train our guys that we made a specific point with my guys I would say,
[00:54:14] look, when you're on patrol, we're on offense. We are scanning. We are looking to get the
[00:54:20] to get us to be standing up straight and to get the mentality of we want to do this and we're moving
[00:54:26] towards the target as opposed to we're being chased. That's a big deal. It's absolutely that's a big
[00:54:32] deal. Yeah and that's what would you say? That's an extreme example of what's necessary
[00:54:39] under normal conditions in life. So what one of the things that happens if you're treating someone
[00:54:43] who has a phobias, like agro phobias, they become afraid of virtually everything. Maybe they're
[00:54:50] afraid of an elevator. It's one of many fears and so you think well. They're afraid of an
[00:54:55] elevator because they've actually gone in elevators and had panic attacks. So it's weird because
[00:54:58] what you do to cure them is to get them to go in elevators and you think, well wait a second,
[00:55:02] that's actually what caused the problem. So how can getting them to do that again make it better?
[00:55:08] And that answer is because they've gone in elevators their whole life, right? And yet they still
[00:55:11] become terrified. So how can getting them to go in an elevator cure them? For a long time people thought,
[00:55:17] well you get them to relax while they were in the elevator and the pairing of the relaxation
[00:55:22] with being in the elevator taught them to not be afraid. That was the first theory but then people
[00:55:26] learned that no you could just get them to go in the elevator without having them relax and it
[00:55:30] also worked. And eventually psychologists sorted this out and what they figured out was that
[00:55:35] voluntarily encountering something you're afraid of is not the same thing as running from it.
[00:55:41] Like it's seriously not the same thing. So you say to the person, okay you're afraid of the
[00:55:45] elevator, let's can you go look at an elevator? They usually say yes and maybe they're so terrified
[00:55:51] because they're so far gone in their illness that they can't say well how about we look at a bunch
[00:55:54] of pictures of elevators and it's like virtually everyone can do that. So let's look at pictures of
[00:55:59] elevators till your board. That actually doesn't take very long because it's actually quite boring.
[00:56:03] So then the next thing would be, well let's go you have to have the person trust you and so
[00:56:08] the rule is look we're going to do some things that are going to push you like competition.
[00:56:13] Right. But you can stop whenever you want and we're not going to push you any farther than
[00:56:17] is good for you and I'll stop anytime you want. I often practice with my clients like I
[00:56:21] taught one client a while back to not be afraid of needles and he was afraid of needles and I'll
[00:56:26] tell you what that meant. He had dental surgery with no anesthesia. Right. Okay so that gives you
[00:56:33] some level of what it's like to be afraid. It's like all do the dental surgery but you're not
[00:56:37] putting that needle in there. It's really? It's like I'm no needles. So I taught him how to not be afraid
[00:56:44] of needles. You know and it didn't take very long but the first thing I did is said I told him I was
[00:56:50] going to bring a needle into the office and that was all I told him the first week is next week
[00:56:54] I'm going to bring a needle in here and I'm going to keep it sheathed and it's going to be sitting
[00:56:59] on a shelf and that's where I'm going to put it and when you come in here you can look at it
[00:57:03] and if you want me to put it away then I'll put it away. It's under your control and then so he was
[00:57:08] okay without. So he came in and there's the needle said you want to look at it and said no it's
[00:57:11] but canyots like I'll look at it. So he looked at it and then it said look like I'm going to pick up the
[00:57:16] needle and now what you're going to do is you're going to tell me to put it down and I'm going to put it
[00:57:21] down so I picked it up and he got nervous like right away and he said well you put that down
[00:57:26] I put it down right away so we do that 10 times so that the bottom part of your nervous system
[00:57:33] actually knows that that's what's going to happen. Said now and then the next thing we'll do is
[00:57:38] we're going to practice you saying you've had enough and leaving the office so I pick up the
[00:57:43] needle and he'd say okay so now you say you've had enough I'm leaving and so he said that and then
[00:57:48] I'd let him leave we did that like 10 times so that he knew that he could just say he'd have
[00:57:52] enough and leave so that mean he didn't have to be a prey animal right so we're getting them out of
[00:57:57] that mode and it didn't take very long until well then I could bring the needle close to him and
[00:58:03] I say make sure you watch it you can't pretend it's not there right I'll bring it close to him
[00:58:07] and touch him with the sheath needle so we did that a bunch and then finally I unsheathed it and I
[00:58:13] bring it close and he tolerate that or stopped me and then I'd touch him with that and then
[00:58:18] the last part of it was that I put it under a piece of paper so he couldn't see it and then I'd
[00:58:24] bring it close to him right because that was that was the unknown right you don't know what the hell
[00:58:28] it's going on underneath the piece of paper but he got to the point where he could go and have a needle
[00:58:33] I took on about it was very brave of him to do this because well what had happened he got what had
[00:58:38] happened to him is he had a very bad experience with the childhood dentist I was held down the same
[00:58:42] one where the hell oh yeah held him six people held him down to give him a needle it's like
[00:58:48] what was that so good it had some long-term consequences but see what happened so when you when you do
[00:58:53] that with people you don't teach them to be less afraid you teach them to be braver that's different
[00:59:00] and so like I had a client once the door is open on the elevator and she looked and she said that's
[00:59:05] death like that's a tomb and I thought wow that's an amazing response and her idea was she'd go in
[00:59:09] there her hardweight would accelerate she'd have a hard attack and she'd die so as far as she was
[00:59:14] concerned walking in there was death right okay so for me it was an elevator but for her it was death
[00:59:19] it's like okay well what do you do about your fear of death well we're not getting rid of that it's like
[00:59:26] you know and you could die in the elevator you actually could probably you won't but people do
[00:59:30] die in elevators and her idea was that well if anyone has ever died in an elevator in the history of
[00:59:35] mankind that's a good reason for me not to be in the elevator it's like fair enough you know and why aren't
[00:59:40] you terrified of out of your skull all the time because while you're wondering around you might have a
[00:59:44] heart attack like that will probably in fact happen to you at some point so why aren't you terrified of
[00:59:50] that at every moment well that's the mystery well so you treat people and and you see without
[00:59:56] client what I eventually did with hers we went and watched an abomining she was terrified of death
[01:00:01] like seriously yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah right no kidding but you know so you get you don't get
[01:00:12] less afraid you get braver that's better because there's plenty of things to be afraid of but you can
[01:00:18] get braver so that's something people manage this on their own ever oh yeah yeah people manage it
[01:00:23] on their own they'd manage it on their own all the time like you know let's say you're in a
[01:00:27] ratty horrible job and you're being oppressed by your boss and one day you think I've had enough
[01:00:31] and you go right your resume it's like there you go that's what you're doing it's like you know you're
[01:00:35] you're because you think well I've got the devil I know and and then there's the devil I don't
[01:00:41] know and that's relevant when you're when you're trying to switch careers can I find another job
[01:00:45] well anyone hire me how long will this take to I have to get educated again I've to put my resume
[01:00:49] together that's a real pain because there's holes in it and I don't know how to present myself
[01:00:53] then I have to go to interviews and it's like oh my god that's no you know that's a lot of trouble
[01:00:58] well then you think no I'm I'm gonna start that I'm gonna rewrite my resumes like well then
[01:01:04] up you get right just your moving forward in your life you're not taken being tyrannized by your
[01:01:11] son of a bitch of a boss and you're out to do something about it you know and people can get really
[01:01:16] good at that so one of the things you do is a psychotherapist is just you do assertiveness training
[01:01:21] it's like so people come and they say help help I'm being oppressed in that famous
[01:01:25] Monty Python in the famous Monty Python manner and you say okay look well first of all you're
[01:01:31] probably whining a lot so let's figure that out so you quit whining and then let's figure out how you
[01:01:36] actually are oppressed and what might be done about it and then let's figure out a strategy and then
[01:01:42] let's help you practice the strategy until you get good at it and and let's also map out the
[01:01:47] consequences of not fixing it because people think well how can I stand up to my boss it's like that's
[01:01:53] terrible I might risk my jobs like yeah fair enough no wonder you're afraid of that maybe you should just
[01:01:58] shut up let's see what your life would be like in 10 years if you just shut up it's like you know how
[01:02:04] about it is now it's like it's gonna be way worse than that because you're gonna shrink and shrink
[01:02:08] and shrink and your boss is gonna become more and more tyrannical and you're gonna hate every
[01:02:13] minute of your life and it's like you want that or do you want to confront your boss or change jobs
[01:02:18] it's like oh I see it's like hell here it's hell here I get it I get to pick which of those I'm
[01:02:24] going to walk down and that's a relief to people most of the time it's so funny because people often think they have
[01:02:32] their their paralyzed because they think that there's a good option right yeah but what are the
[01:02:37] things you do is a psychotherapist to say oh no you no no you're screwed no matter which way you turn it's
[01:02:42] it's like a crocodile here and it's a wolf there and and behind you there's a hyena it's like
[01:02:47] there's no lambs you're not in lament territory it's all predators well pick your battle pick your
[01:02:56] battle and then all of a sudden you're in battle and then it doesn't matter that it's a hyena because
[01:03:01] you're warrior so fine bring it on this is a common to another point that I picked up from the book
[01:03:09] that I have a leadership management consultant company so I work with companies all the time and
[01:03:13] one of the topics has come up a bunch in the past couple of years is you know when you're dealing with
[01:03:18] someone you're dealing with an employee and you got firearm and how this is a big hard conversation
[01:03:23] and et cetera except or no one wants to have those and I always say look if you have the hard
[01:03:29] conversation earlier it's not so hard because all I have to tell you say Jordan you know you were
[01:03:34] late today and we're not supposed to be late and you all sorry and the problems sort of self-out
[01:03:39] or it doesn't and then I got escalated yeah but what you talk about in the book is if there's a
[01:03:44] problem go attack it you can go get that problem solved don't go after that drag you know the dragons in
[01:03:50] there go get it well your observation is dead on it's like and this is the problem with being too
[01:03:55] nice like I don't what regard nice is a virtue or if it's a virtue it's a very low order virtue
[01:04:00] because what nice usually means but nice usually means is I don't want to cause conflict now even
[01:04:07] though the consequences of the conflict might multiply into the future so let's say you have an
[01:04:12] employee that's chronically late right and but you I don't want to I don't really want to disturb
[01:04:16] them I don't want to cause any trouble it's like while you're angry about it because they're late
[01:04:20] and they're not supposed to be so you're getting all bitter and resentful plus you're not doing
[01:04:23] the many favors you know because you're also telling them that you can be taken advantage of
[01:04:28] and that they're lack of discipline is okay and then you know so then you're going to dislike the
[01:04:33] employee and you're going to amplify their other errors in your because of your distaste and then
[01:04:38] and if they are someone who's taking advantage of you then they're going to take advantage of you
[01:04:41] a little more and then a little more and a little more and a little more and then you're going to have
[01:04:45] to have a really difficult conversation or put up with it and that might sink your business especially
[01:04:50] if you're a small business owner so by not confronting the dragon when it's like two inches high
[01:04:57] and can only you know it's like it can bell-chowed something like a bit lighter you wait till
[01:05:02] the thing can inflame the whole room and then you say oh my god like isn't this hellish it's like well
[01:05:07] you knew that there was something to say you knew it you knew it a thousand times and now
[01:05:14] you can't just say the one thing you have to say the thousand things or maybe you have to say the
[01:05:18] ten thousand things and it's just destructive in every way so yeah that's not good
[01:05:24] now here's where I need help with this so what I think people might get the ideas okay if
[01:05:31] I'm in a relationship with my wife and she gives serves me dry chicken again right which is
[01:05:38] a common theme in my house and actually thanks to the internet it's actually changed now
[01:05:43] because she's gotten thousands of people that haven't now sent her how to keep the chicken more
[01:05:47] so she does a great job but for for you know we're talking about two decades of my life we're
[01:05:52] talking about dry chicken this is a problem so and you know what I did I didn't say anything
[01:05:58] because I just would drink more water yeah more water at dinner yeah I fear that sometimes people
[01:06:04] say well you know what I'm gonna do so I'm just gonna run around it I'm gonna tell the truth to
[01:06:06] everyone all the time on these little things that don't matter now my my my actual best example
[01:06:12] that I've ever heard of this we we had a guy in the podcast named Charlie Plum he was a pilot in
[01:06:17] Vietnam he was shot down in and on his last mission of his deployment he was shot down he was captured
[01:06:25] using the honeyhilton for six years this is the deal that they had amongst their roommates so they
[01:06:32] had roommates and it's run smaller than we're in right now and there'd be four of them in there
[01:06:36] three of them and they're two from there depending on what's going on if you did something
[01:06:40] then normally if Jordan does something that annoys me we gotta live together if you do something
[01:06:45] that annoys me it's my fault it's my fault for allowing you clip clip click your nails together
[01:06:52] or you pick your nose a lot or you itch your head whatever it is that you do that bothers me
[01:06:56] it's my problem and I have to absorb it because otherwise what we have is we have like rats and
[01:07:03] a cage that are gonna knowledge other apart and I thought about that while I was reading the
[01:07:09] part of the book that was saying and you actually also later in the book talk about hey you know
[01:07:14] you're gonna get fight over this little stupid thing or you're gonna absorb and I talk about that
[01:07:18] a lot as a leader yeah as a as a person in a relationship hey there's problems from your boss
[01:07:24] you absorb them and you don't pass them down to your people you know you you want to stay
[01:07:29] work or stay late and do a much crazy stuff that we don't think we should be doing cool my
[01:07:32] guys are gonna go home I'm gonna absorb that I'll get it done myself I'm not gonna absorb these problems
[01:07:37] now are there some tertiary effects of course or secondary effects that know my boss thinks
[01:07:42] you can get away with that and all those things but I just think there's we have to be careful
[01:07:47] that we're not just throwing a lot of spears of truth in people's hands or whatever is
[01:07:53] a bunch of black truths they're the opposite of white lies right so black truths are truth
[01:07:57] you used to hurt other people with right so technically in the moment the statement is factual
[01:08:04] but the context be lies right whereas a white lie it's like well it's a little lie but you're
[01:08:09] trying to support a larger truth not that white white lies aren't optimal you know it's better
[01:08:14] not to lie but sometimes the best you can manage is a white lie and then maybe that's better
[01:08:19] pretty good well okay so then in those sorts of situations you think well first of all I have
[01:08:25] some rules of thumb if someone does something at work that annoys you it's like right it off man
[01:08:31] it's like that's once it's like what does that mean you're having a bad day or I'm having
[01:08:35] a bad day it's like doesn't mean anything do it twice think it's okay that's right that off
[01:08:42] right that off it's that's the same issue it could still just be circumstance in situation
[01:08:49] three times okay now there might be grounds for a conversation you go and say well you know
[01:08:54] you put your feet up on my desk like but they ago and that was okay but then you did it again
[01:09:00] and then like you did it again and I'm thinking it actually happened three times right so there's
[01:09:07] no denying it and perhaps that's not optimal and then you go for the smallest possible
[01:09:12] victory that's the next thing is like I'm not telling you that you're what would you say
[01:09:18] that you lack respect or that there's something wrong with you what I'm asking is that if you come
[01:09:24] in my office it would be better for both of us if your feet stayed on the floor that okay
[01:09:33] you know and and that's a small thing you're not going after the person's character right you're
[01:09:37] going after the tiny victory so you say to your wife look like I'm thrilled to death that you're
[01:09:42] cooking me dinner really I'm serious because and it could be a hell of lot worse than it is you know
[01:09:47] and and maybe I could be more helpful around the kitchen that's certainly a possibility
[01:09:53] but I have to go out this thing with regards to chicken and maybe it's me you know but could we
[01:09:58] try for like a month to cook it differently and then we'll revisit it and if I happen to be wrong
[01:10:04] like I'll shut the hell up and she might think okay well he is kind of useless around the
[01:10:08] kitchen and sort of bitchy about the chicken and all of that but maybe I trust him enough to admit
[01:10:15] that I made a small mistake and rectify it and we could go along and not have the damn chicken thing
[01:10:20] hanging over our heads till we're 80 you know you just in your second example there you I tell
[01:10:26] people it's all the time so you you're coming into my office and you're putting your feet in the
[01:10:30] desk what I'll generally do is make it my fault I generally say hey Jordan I hate to be like a
[01:10:36] nitpicker yeah but I'm really freaked out about germs it's really stupid but yeah and when you
[01:10:42] come and put your feet on my desk it freaks me out yeah you just do me a favor and not put your
[01:10:46] feet on your knees I was thinking of the same thing with you know with the chicken it's like hey
[01:10:50] you know what I have a super sensitive palate refined and I just do the rough minds just to
[01:10:55] refine for your story but and I just yeah could we maybe figure out another way to cook that
[01:11:01] or okay we try you know but I'll take the blame for for the situation rather than your
[01:11:09] your disrespect for don't put your feet on my desk this is you know well you don't want to
[01:11:12] adopt more of a position of moral superiority than is absolutely necessary one of the things I
[01:11:19] recommend I don't remember if I wrote it into all rules for life I think I did about how to
[01:11:24] let's say you're in an intractable argument with your wife about who's the most reprehensible
[01:11:29] person right which is where arguments sort of end when they go to hell I think now you're in
[01:11:35] one of those arguments and you risk bringing up the past which is a very very bad idea right
[01:11:40] maybe you're saying something like you've always been this way you're this way down you'll never
[01:11:45] change and none of it's good it's like oh man that's a fight because where where are you going to
[01:11:49] go from there so one of the things I recommend and this actually works is when you're in one of
[01:11:53] these battles and you can't bloody well get out of it you separate each go to your room and you
[01:11:57] sit and think okay that person is really wrong and I like to give them a good stomping and
[01:12:02] but then you think no I got to live with them so that's probably not a good idea right because I
[01:12:06] don't want to live with someone who's like stomped and angry about it because they're going to
[01:12:10] take their revenge like if they have any spirit at all so you cannot win an argument with your wife
[01:12:15] that's just wrong you can't you can make peace you can come up with a solution but if you win
[01:12:21] she loses and then she's the loser and like unless you want to have a loser around that's not
[01:12:28] a very good strategy anyway so you go to your room and you think okay fundamentally flawed as my
[01:12:34] wife is particularly in this particular circumstance there's probably something stupid
[01:12:39] idea in the relatively recent past that increased the probability that we're in this little
[01:12:45] hellish place and you think oh what was it and you think oh god I really don't want to know
[01:12:50] it's like I really don't want to know this and so you think no I'm going to figure out where I'm one
[01:12:56] percent at fault she's 99% wrong but I'm I'm 1% at fault so you sit there and you think okay what
[01:13:02] was it and you let your imagination sort of wander over your past stupidities and you think oh
[01:13:08] there is something I did that was like kind of underhanded and devious and crooked and pathetic and
[01:13:13] weasely and then you go and you tell her and she does the same thing you know and she's just
[01:13:19] irritated about it as you are and then you think okay and you say look I'm sorry about that and
[01:13:24] I know this increased the probability that we're in this like bitchy horrible place and she does the
[01:13:29] same thing and then you think oh yeah well we're both pathetic losers and we can quit plan
[01:13:33] like dominance hierarchy and then maybe you can have a conversation about how to make it better
[01:13:37] and that conversation should be bounded too it's like the chicken thing is a really good
[01:13:42] my my father-in-law who I really like used to come my wife told me this story he used to come
[01:13:48] home for lunch eh and his wife would feed him lunch and she always used little plates and it was
[01:13:54] like they'd been married for 30 years and one day he had this explosion at the table about the fact
[01:14:00] that he'd had to eat off these damn little plates for 30 years and you know it was much more of a
[01:14:07] large explosion than it had to be but it's these little things actually matter they actually
[01:14:12] matter they have to straighten them out because your life especially with your wife is composed of
[01:14:17] about 50 little things that you do every day and because you do them every day they're not little
[01:14:24] you can just do the arithmetic you know it's like maybe you don't like
[01:14:27] where your wife greets you when you come home it's like okay is that relevant is that important well
[01:14:33] let's say it takes 10 minutes because you're thinking about it and you're coming home and then there's
[01:14:37] the little aftermath of it's 10 minutes so it's like an hour a week it's four hours a month it's 50
[01:14:41] hours a year that's one work week it's 2% of your life it's like 2% of your life right so that's
[01:14:47] the math it's like if you got 50 of those things right your whole life would be right think is it
[01:14:53] worth fighting about just like yeah it's worth it because it's 2% of your life or which one percent
[01:14:58] even whatever and then you think okay well how should people greet themselves when they first
[01:15:04] come home it's like well maybe it's not quite like your dog greets you because your dog is like
[01:15:09] reprehensively happy to see that's just too much right little candle do that but maybe you want
[01:15:15] the person to not be watching TV for the second you enter the house maybe they should just stop
[01:15:21] watching TV and come and say you know hello how was your day and give you a hug that would be a
[01:15:25] good thing and then maybe you do the same thing to them and you practice that for like two months
[01:15:30] because you're both stupid and it's really hard for you to learn anything and then you've got that
[01:15:34] down and the dinner times are like that too like a lot and lots of households meal times are really
[01:15:39] fractured which is a bad thing or they're bitter it's like I'm here's your goddamn food it's like
[01:15:45] yeah I'll eat it but I can't stand it and you can't cook it's like okay that's four and a half hours
[01:15:50] a day right for your whole life you think you're gonna like someone like that not a bit man you know
[01:15:56] I'd do like them so you fix that you actually did tell that whole thing in the book so that's
[01:16:01] it's good is in there and actually the phrasing that you used when you say if you win an argument
[01:16:06] you said something along the lines of you win you win that argument they're the loser yeah
[01:16:11] now you win that argument a hundred times now in a marriage you win ten thousand times and you
[01:16:16] are now married to a loser and that loser that loser is not going to be someone who makes any effort
[01:16:23] whatsoever ever to be attractive to you or anyone else then you'll think oh look look look look
[01:16:30] who I ended up with it's like no look at how you produced it's like good work there it's guy and
[01:16:38] that's the so so what you're talking about with this argument thing and you look go but you
[01:16:43] separate you go in your room you say okay what did I do wrong yeah right I do wrong that's annoying
[01:16:47] what did I do wrong and and interestingly myself and my my my buddy life babbling we wrote a book
[01:16:53] called Extreme ownership and I mean whole premises you take responsibility for when things go wrong
[01:16:58] you say yeah this was my fault so I'll go to clients and I'll be meeting with them and I'll say
[01:17:04] you look when you something goes wrong with your team you're with me you guys made a mistake you fail
[01:17:07] up whatever you're trying to accomplish you know you gotta take ownership of you stand up and you
[01:17:11] say hey look this was my fault and this is what you know we're gonna do and then the people will
[01:17:17] say well you know what if I did that my team is so bad yeah that if I did that with my team you know
[01:17:22] what they'd say they'd say you're right it is your fault and and it looked at me like well
[01:17:28] the so you're plan jocco sucks yeah because if I say this is my fault my team is gonna look at
[01:17:33] me and say you're right it is your fault and then what do I do and I kind of get a little bit
[01:17:40] maybe a little bit frustrated because I look at them and I say that's the whole point it actually
[01:17:47] is your fault you're not just saying it to get out of the the problem you're not just saying it
[01:17:53] to make excuses for everything that's happening no when you say hey this is my fault that we
[01:17:57] got in this argument and then your and your wife says yeah it is you don't say no no no no no no you
[01:18:02] say I know and you have to mean it is you say I know and this is what I'm gonna do to fix it and
[01:18:09] if you're a leader you say it's my fault and your team says yeah you're right it is your fault you
[01:18:11] say I know that's what I just said and here's what I'm gonna do to fix it so when you take ownership
[01:18:16] of a problem it doesn't necessarily make the problem go away in fact it doesn't do that at all
[01:18:21] once you admit what the problem is and you take ownership of the problem then you have to say
[01:18:24] here's what I'm gonna do to fix it let's say your high school kid and you got a tyrant as a
[01:18:30] teacher it's like well you could it could be the case that you have a tyrant as a teacher and the
[01:18:34] tyrant is particularly on your case and you think well yeah that's an awful thing and this
[01:18:38] person really is a tyrant it's like yeah but you're not very good at dealing with tyrants
[01:18:43] you might think well I shouldn't have to be it's like fair enough man because who wants tyrants
[01:18:48] but truth of the matter is is that there is always tyranny and if you don't know how to deal with it
[01:18:55] if you don't know how to thrive in the face of tyranny even then there is something wrong with you
[01:19:01] now doesn't mean that there isn't something wrong with the tyrant it's like that's self-evident
[01:19:05] but it doesn't mean that you aren't who you could be because if you were everything you could be
[01:19:10] you could manage that situation and it might be you'd figure out an exit strategy I mean who the
[01:19:15] hell knows what the solution would be but if you if you're conceiving yourself as helpless
[01:19:21] victim then that's what you are and I'm not saying that there aren't situations that people find
[01:19:26] themselves in where there's very well it's hard to say you know that there's very little you can
[01:19:33] do I mean that woman that we talked about earlier she was in a pretty damn hopeless situation
[01:19:37] and she found something she could do you know and I've read these books Victor Frankles
[01:19:41] man search for meaning and social netizens go like archipelago I mean he saw people in some pretty
[01:19:46] damn dire straits like really you know really beyond comprehension and he noticed even in
[01:19:53] those situations that people still have their choices to make you know and I mean you you
[01:19:58] tread on that ground with extreme hesitancy because you don't say well man if I was thrown in the
[01:20:03] go like I would have been noble it's like no probably not man you would have been a trusty in about
[01:20:07] 15 minutes you know that's the most likely outcome so you have to be careful about not
[01:20:12] getting too high on your horse about such things but it isn't obvious when you're out of choices
[01:20:17] most of the time you have more choices you haven't used all the choices you have most of the time
[01:20:24] now I've seen people in situations I couldn't help them get out of so and people die right
[01:20:29] I mean you have a fatal illness you have pancreatic cancer like you're dead in six months your
[01:20:34] choices are limited but maybe under those circumstances you figure out how to put your house in order
[01:20:40] and be what you can to the people who will be left it's something like that from for me and I
[01:20:46] get a lot of and I know you get infinitely more than me but I'll get someone that reports to me
[01:20:51] a problem or a situation that they're in that seems really bad and and what I've found is
[01:20:57] the solution that they're looking for the only solution that they can conceive of is one that is
[01:21:04] going to provide that solution within a two week time frame like that's what we're talking about
[01:21:10] if I'm not this problem is installed in two weeks then you know this is hell and I always kind
[01:21:16] of report back and say hey you're here in a job right now that I understand it's bad I understand
[01:21:22] it's your boss's terrible the team is terrible whatever the case is what it or you're in a
[01:21:26] situation or your family is this or whatever so conceive of plan right now and it's not going to take
[01:21:32] two weeks it might take six months it might take a year it might take a year and a half of you
[01:21:36] saving your money and setting your resume and getting the service skills that you need if you can
[01:21:41] if you can extend your time and I'll tell you what when you when you come up with that plan when you
[01:21:46] conceive of that plan immediately you have hope and when you have hope you can continue on through
[01:21:54] the miserable existence that you're in because you know that you've got a plan and you're going to
[01:21:57] get your way out of it absolutely well I had a client recently because I've done a lot of consulting
[01:22:01] as well it's clinical work and often my clients come to me they're high functioning people they
[01:22:06] have decent jobs but you know we make a plan it's like well I'm making 75 thousand dollars a year
[01:22:12] right now the person says so well how much well okay we're going to we're going to prove that like
[01:22:16] why don't we see if we can triple that see if we can triple it it's like what the hell you know
[01:22:20] maybe we can't but maybe we can some people do make triple that could be you okay so what's wrong
[01:22:27] with you well you know you're not educated enough all right so we need to fix that your resume is
[01:22:32] in order you're not sending the damn thing out it's like well then you got to do baselines
[01:22:37] statistics it's like well how many times do you have to send out your resume to to move ahead
[01:22:41] when you're already in a pretty decent job well the answer isn't 10 the answer is like you have
[01:22:46] to send out five a day every day for the next two years and the the rejection rate will be so
[01:22:53] close to a hundred percent that that's what it will feel like right but it's a lottery ticket you
[01:22:59] only have to win once so it doesn't matter if you if you lose 300 times doesn't matter you just need
[01:23:06] one hit so now you got to prepare yourself because it's going to be brutal because you're sending
[01:23:10] out all these you know resumes to jobs you're not quite qualified enough for because you're looking
[01:23:17] to move up brace yourself right it's going to be nothing but failure nothing but failure well
[01:23:22] this particular client to think it took her two years maybe more two and a half years of sending
[01:23:29] out resumes and accelerating her education and and practicing because she'd get an interview now
[01:23:34] and then and get very close to it to get that first move right but then she got two more in the
[01:23:40] next year and she was out tripler salary but you know it's like long terms strategic thinking
[01:23:47] followed by an implementable plan and then the willingness to tolerate an insane run of
[01:23:53] ridiculous failures before you move but I've seen that happen to people there's no reason that you can't
[01:24:01] move you just have to figure out where you want to move you have to figure out what the criteria are
[01:24:06] for putting you in that position and then you have to be some measure of insanely persistent because
[01:24:12] it's so unlikely right that the default answer to the question can I have this good job is
[01:24:19] are you out of your mind of course not right well it is it's like an even if you're qualified it's
[01:24:25] like yeah you and ten other people so there's even an element of chance at it especially at the end
[01:24:31] you don't like if you're in the top five you've done everything you can can do to control that
[01:24:38] outcome there's some element of chance that's going to be the determining variable because you know
[01:24:44] maybe I don't know maybe they didn't like the way your suit looked on you and that's the only
[01:24:49] thing that's differentiating you from the other candidate it's like you also don't want to take
[01:24:53] that to personally it's like what you hit the top five you were shortlisted you're in there man
[01:24:57] you're in there you're in the gap do that ten times you'll win one of those contests but you
[01:25:02] got to do it ten times so and you know even if it's lower in jobs like I've worked in lots of
[01:25:09] lower in jobs we talked about dishwasher yeah yeah yeah well you know I was dishwasher for
[01:25:17] while but then I was a shorter to cook yeah and you know but more than that more importantly than that
[01:25:21] even while I was a dishwasher washer once I kind of got the hang of it which was a lot harder
[01:25:28] than you might think once I got the hang of it I was valued member of that team it's like
[01:25:35] while you're dishwasher it's like yeah that's one way of looking at it another way of looking
[01:25:39] at it's that I'm valued member of this team and that was actually fun like I was just a kid you know
[01:25:43] I was 14 and I was I did my job properly and I got treated like an adult it was like I loved that
[01:25:50] I loved that that was great and so the fact that I was well are you a dishwasher or you a
[01:25:54] 14 year old adult hey I'm a 14 year old adult hey I win I win that dishwasher no dishwasher
[01:26:01] it's like that's a good game and I really did like that I mean when I look back in my
[01:26:05] mid-adolescence it's certainly in the case that the the times that were the best for me when
[01:26:11] I was working in restaurants because I was I was part of the team man so
[01:26:18] you one of the sections in the book you talk about um I believe the person's name was lunchbox
[01:26:25] lunch bucket lunch bucket right for a little bit you know since we're talking about
[01:26:30] work environments and there's that certain level of camaraderie you actually talk about the
[01:26:35] seal teams in here where you just have this it's like a non and I've talked about this before
[01:26:40] in the seal teams it's non stop hyper verbal abuse aggression around the clock 24 hours
[01:26:49] day you're in a seal pool tune like that's the life any any mistake that you make any any
[01:26:56] display of weakness is gonna be especially contaminated we rip apart always gonna be ripped apart
[01:27:04] and then if you get all your tated about that it's even worse then you're just dead the nicknames
[01:27:08] you talked about lunch bucket your nickname was how do you how do you do the nicknames
[01:27:13] or the how do you which was which was pretty good about it yeah I'm from how do you do
[01:27:17] which is kind of so good how do you which is kind of cool right is western yeah but but
[01:27:23] the nicknames that that are in the seal teams like I can't with good conscience repeat them
[01:27:28] sure that they're just they're just horrible names but there's a camaraderie around that
[01:27:34] and there's also the way as I was reading what you'd written about these guys working on rail
[01:27:39] rate where are we crew yeah there's a test it's a test it's a test to see where you're at
[01:27:45] it's right you made up can we rely on you can you can you can you can you tolerate a little bit of
[01:27:49] irritation the answer that is no it's like well maybe we don't want you around then because
[01:27:53] some irritating things are likely to come down the pipe yeah and it's it's not just um
[01:27:59] to me to me it proves if you've got someone that can take it right it's not just that they can take
[01:28:04] some random joking insults like they can they can take it they can take it yeah that's
[01:28:09] what you're testing for it's like can you take it lunch pocket couldn't right because people
[01:28:13] would laugh at his lunch pocket and he'd get all upset it's like well you have a stupid lunch
[01:28:17] pocket it's like you know your mum packed it how about it you laugh at yourself yeah my mum packed
[01:28:22] this I know it's kind of stupid that would be the end of it he would just have to say that
[01:28:25] it's like but I didn't want to hurt her feelings it's like oh okay you know fine you got your
[01:28:30] stupid lunch pocket but no he couldn't handle that you know so yeah it was it was horrible
[01:28:35] had comical to watch at the same time because the level of and people have written me about that
[01:28:39] and they said oh you know poor lunch pocket it's like because they're all compassion I think no
[01:28:43] no not poor lunch pocket it's like clue the hell in buddy you had your chance you know that was a
[01:28:48] desirable job that real crew job in the summer because it was high paying you know and they weren't
[01:28:53] easy to come by those jobs and so the fact that he got hired onto that crew is a real opportunity
[01:28:57] for him you could make a pile of money in the summer out working on the rail crew and all you had to do is
[01:29:04] take some ribbing with good grace not suck up to the management too badly and not have other
[01:29:11] people do your job that was all that was all you had to do but he couldn't do that and so he got
[01:29:16] run off and it was like grow the hell up buddy you know these guys when 100 people are teasing you
[01:29:22] then probably they're not wrong yeah when you are getting tease like that as well
[01:29:33] well when you when you when you stop reacting it's no longer fun yeah yeah yeah well also gives you an
[01:29:40] opportunity to tease back it's like yeah you can show your wit and one of the things that working
[01:29:44] class guys in particular which is what one of the things I really loved about working class jobs is that
[01:29:48] they're always looking for some humor so it's like if if person A is teasing person B that's kind
[01:29:53] of comical but if person B comes back with a good time back it's like not even better you know so
[01:30:00] I think that's a lot of how those jobs are rendered tolerable right it's their their hard
[01:30:04] dirty jobs dishwasher's a good example that's not dangerous although cooking is you know you
[01:30:10] gotta watch your step I got burned a lot when I was cooking but what makes those jobs not only
[01:30:17] tolerable but even desirable is that you can develop a tremendous amount of camaraderie around them
[01:30:22] I've never really experienced that at a professional level job that just doesn't happen the same way
[01:30:27] and it's really there's a real loss in that so it's it's it's it's fun to be part of a team that's doing
[01:30:34] you know grubby hands on things and and having a ridiculously entertaining vicious
[01:30:42] cruel and evil time while you're doing it that's very entertaining the this new kids book I wrote so
[01:30:48] uh the kid mark he's getting made fun of by this he's a different kind of bully he's like a mental
[01:30:53] bully that that verbally abuses people and he gets called plate face by this character and to
[01:31:02] it eventually gets in trouble for throwing a something at the kid because he's calling him plate face
[01:31:05] plate but eventually way he befriends the kid is by he they have to do a self portrait class he draws a picture of
[01:31:11] himself looking like a plate and he shows the kid the kid laughs and all of a sudden their buddies and it's like
[01:31:16] that's what you do you take away that you take away the joy of of being so heated and irritated by
[01:31:24] people that are making fun of you and you just kill it right there too jutsu and some sense well
[01:31:28] I had an experience with that about three years ago I'd put my videos up online and people kept saying
[01:31:34] that I sounded like kermit well one person said it and I thought well whatever but then like five
[01:31:40] people said it and I thought oh my god like this kermit thing so then I went and listened to kermit
[01:31:45] and I thought oh no it's like it's like really I really sound like kermit you know and so then
[01:31:51] well then I started to play with it a little bit you know I used the puppet when I when I
[01:31:56] when I went to speak to university students and I made frog jokes and then I made a video
[01:32:01] that sort of featured me as a frog and it's crazy right it's ridiculous but but that's and but
[01:32:07] but the teasing never got mean because of that you know and the same things happened online
[01:32:12] to a larger degree as people keep making memes of me like and there's I don't know there's lots of them
[01:32:17] there's way too many to even keep track of and I was watching that happen and I thought okay this is a
[01:32:22] good thing because there's humor and wherever there's humor that's a good thing and they're making
[01:32:26] fun of me but it's gentle you know most of it was poki you know like well you sound like this
[01:32:31] damn puppet what do you think about it's like well if I had to pick someone to sound like
[01:32:35] probably wouldn't be a puppet but it had to be a puppet kermit's not a bad one it could be a lot
[01:32:39] worse it could be mispaggy yeah it could be not you know so thank god that didn't happen but the
[01:32:44] memes have never got vicious because you know I'll post them if they're funny and satirical and
[01:32:51] then they won't get vicious because they don't have to it's like can we poke fun of at you it's like
[01:32:55] yeah please do and the more the better really because that'll also help keep my feet on the ground
[01:33:00] and keep me awake and plus it's funny and like one of the things about life is that
[01:33:05] a sense of humor that's a good thing to to arm yourself with because sometimes you just don't have
[01:33:11] anything other than that like my daughter when she recounts her the horrors of her adolescent she
[01:33:17] she had to have her hip and her ankle replaced because they both deteriorated beyond repair
[01:33:22] beyond the possibility of repair and she was like an agony for literally for years it was just awful
[01:33:28] she can tell that story in a way that will just make you die of laughter and it's like well thank
[01:33:34] God for that because what else do you have in a situation like that man if you if and sometimes it's
[01:33:39] so dark that your sense of humor is just about gone and then you're in real trouble but lots of times
[01:33:44] that's what you've got against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune it's like
[01:33:48] you see this with people especially people who've been through really hard times and they're
[01:33:53] witty like things will be bleak bleak bleak and they'll crack a joke and you think well thank God man
[01:33:58] you can pop up above that and see above it a bit and and like you know tap it with a bit of irony
[01:34:05] and thank God for that so when the comedians start to get silence there's real trouble and
[01:34:09] that's been happening to some degree in Canada you know comedians are increasingly not willing to go
[01:34:14] speak on university campuses and that's when the comedians can't talk that's a really bad
[01:34:20] sight because that's the that comedy that's the triumph of the human spirit over adversity right
[01:34:26] that's why guys in these horrible jobs are often so unbelievably funny it's like well what else do
[01:34:32] they have you know and and actually that's a lot to be funny like that to that can that can
[01:34:38] move you through a lot of dismal so you know I I'm paying attention to time because I know in
[01:34:44] case someone can't tell that we're by an airport right now but to kind of bring this a little bit
[01:34:49] too close first of all we didn't cover anything that I wanted to cover today so we should all
[01:34:52] know that so you're coming back to do that with my talks like oh that's not the talk I plan
[01:34:57] well yeah your first biblical talk you covered the first line of Genesis right you made it one line
[01:35:02] deep and done half hours well done well done yeah but one of the things and I think it's a good
[01:35:08] note to end on at least a little bit to touch on because you're kind of talking about it right now
[01:35:13] is you know the last rule is to to pet a cat when you encounter one on the street yeah
[01:35:18] it's basically find a little bit of joy in these common things well it's a it's a chapter
[01:35:25] about about my daughter's experience and like it was a brutal man it was brutal she was literally
[01:35:31] walking around on two broken legs for two years and she had to take incredibly high doses of
[01:35:36] opiates and so had all the problems that went along with that she had to take riddle into stay awake
[01:35:41] it's like and she was in all likelihood she was dying there's a bunch of reasons for that and
[01:35:46] and those were just some of her health problems those were those weren't even the worst ones
[01:35:51] strangely enough so it was bloody brutal man and one of the things we told her and we managed this
[01:35:57] thank god as I told her once the disease started to develop she had rheumatoid arthritis very
[01:36:02] very seriously I said to her when she was a little kid said look kid this is gonna be rough man
[01:36:08] this is gonna be rough and and here's what you could do to make it worse it's like use your illness
[01:36:13] as an excuse you do that at your peril you do that a hundred times you will not be able to tell
[01:36:18] the difference between suffering that stops you from moving forward and an excuse for not
[01:36:23] living and you will be done it's never never never use your illness as an excuse like if you can't
[01:36:30] do it you can't do it you know we had a good experience without it's written in the book when
[01:36:37] we bought her a scooter because she couldn't use public transportation and we were all freaked out
[01:36:42] about that because like well she has damaged bones and you know broken hip and all of this is like
[01:36:46] you're gonna buy that kid a scooter really it's like well what are you gonna do keep her in her bedroom
[01:36:52] you want to think that's a good idea tell her she can't go out in the world it's like have the
[01:36:57] damn scooter so after awhile she had to get licensed for it there's a licensing procedure and
[01:37:02] to do that she actually had to write a motorbike and so she trained to write the motorbike
[01:37:06] like not very long after she had her hip replaced I think it was a six week something like
[01:37:11] that so of course we're all freaked out about that too because it's like oh man she has to
[01:37:15] write a motorbike and she has this hip and it's like what are we gonna do and she went and she
[01:37:20] did the motorcycle last first one but she dropped the bike a couple of times and some kid wiped out
[01:37:25] and rolled like 30 feet and that kind of freaked her out unsurprisingly and and so then the second
[01:37:31] day she went with her mom to do the motorcycle training she also got trained to write a motor
[01:37:35] motorcycle and the second day she woke up and she said I don't think I can do this and we thought
[01:37:41] well you know that's understandable it's like I can understand that and we talked through it we
[01:37:47] said look here's what to do man is like yeah you can't do it we understand why you're afraid of it
[01:37:52] you can't hold the bike up that well but why don't you just go like go in the car with your mom
[01:38:00] and see how you feel when you get there because you get close and you get right up to it
[01:38:05] maybe you can say no and you have to sit in the car and like that's life and we get it but
[01:38:10] maybe you don't have to and she went there so she thought that was okay and she went there
[01:38:14] and she picked up the damn motorbike and got her license and everybody cheered at the end and
[01:38:19] then she could drive her goddamn scooter around and thank God for that because you know she used
[01:38:24] to go out there and she put on her helmet and she'd go on her scooter and she was like ready to go
[01:38:28] out the world and so that's like that's the difference between making your kids safe and making them
[01:38:34] strong and it was touching bloody go you know because it could have easily been that she would have
[01:38:38] been in the little accident with her motorcycle and broken her leg and then we would have
[01:38:41] thought oh what kind of horrible parents are we she's already got problems and we put her on a
[01:38:45] damn scooter in the middle of the city it's like well you're going to be competent or you're
[01:38:51] going to be safe it's like there's nothing safer than competence and so and it was great for
[01:38:57] because it was just one more active courage you know and and she loved that damn scooter she had it
[01:39:02] for like six years and it was a really good idea risky as hell but really a good idea so yep
[01:39:09] well yeah again I'm looking at the clock we got to get you out of here first of all 12 rules for
[01:39:17] life and and it don't to chaos that's out right now it's number one on Amazon in America UK Canada
[01:39:28] everywhere that's pretty awesome I'm I'm yeah struck wordless by it yeah yeah
[01:39:36] everyone should just get it and because we didn't talk about anything I wanted to talk about today
[01:39:44] you come back we'll do this book and everyone likes to read the books if I keep they can before
[01:39:49] I do the podcast on them so to give everyone a chance to read it which would be awesome
[01:39:53] any other things well I should say I've got this online program called self-authoring
[01:39:59] and I'm offering your viewers a enlistner's a 20% discount that helps you write out an autobiography
[01:40:05] so you can figure out like what you haven't sorted out about your life it helps you write an
[01:40:10] analysis of your virtues in fault so you can rectify the faults and capitalize on the virtues
[01:40:15] and helps you make a plan for the future and I would say to your listeners don't be afraid to
[01:40:21] do it badly because a bad plan a bad account for yourself and a bad plan is way better than
[01:40:28] no account for yourself and no plan it's way better so do it do it badly it'll it'll help
[01:40:34] orient you in your life and we have a preponderance of of scientific data showing for example
[01:40:43] that people who've done the future authoring portion of this that's the plan are like 30% more
[01:40:48] likely to stay in university has an overwhelming effect and it works best on people who are doing
[01:40:53] worst which is really quite cool so there's that I have a personality test at understand myself
[01:41:00] calm and you can go there and get an analysis of 10 aspects of your personality it's kind of a harsh
[01:41:06] test like it'll tell you actually what you're like and it'll probably make you angry you know
[01:41:11] because maybe not but it probably will but it'll tell you it'll help you figure out what jobs you
[01:41:17] might be suited for but it'll also tell you where your week and could be stronger and so that's
[01:41:22] better medicine but but it's better to know it's better to know because then you can do something
[01:41:28] about it so I would say those are two useful things and I'd encourage people to they're inexpensive
[01:41:36] give them a try they'll they're helpful and on top of that you've got your podcast you've got your
[01:41:43] YouTube channel which has hundreds of hours worth of lectures and is fantastic Jordan Petersen
[01:41:52] dot com as well and well I just want to thank you for coming on the podcast again but more
[01:41:59] important I want to thank you for continuing to do what you do I know it's hard work and I know it's
[01:42:05] taxing on you and on your family life and all that yeah it beats suffering stupidly it does
[01:42:11] need and I know for a fact that you're having incredibly positive impact all over the world
[01:42:17] getting people everywhere to try to and to grow the hell out to grow up to grow up to speed up the
[01:42:24] truth make themselves and make thereby the world better place it could be a better place that would be
[01:42:33] good if we could manage that yeah indeed all right thanks for coming on you bet well we have excused
[01:42:41] Dr Jordan Peterson from the this is a recording studio no we're in a rented office make shift
[01:42:48] make shift Jordan had to go catch a plane and continue to get out there and make the world a
[01:42:56] better place good for him yes good for us and echo speaking of making the world a better place sure
[01:43:02] maybe you can let us know how we might be able to make our world a little bit better sure of course
[01:43:12] yeah first thing we can do is stay on the path oh and part of staying on the path is maintaining
[01:43:21] our physical capability and competent competency competency is it competence or competency competency
[01:43:31] we're gonna maintain that that's what we're gonna do on the path so we had jocquests of
[01:43:38] limits obviously we already know if you don't know krill oil joint warfare so jocquest super krill oil
[01:43:45] that's a krill oil supplement so joint where warfare is the glucosamine conjurting and
[01:43:51] curcumin yes very good things for your joints we you know at some point we'll go through
[01:43:58] everything that's in there not today yeah I do something so that because I don't want to
[01:44:04] turn talk about but it's good yeah it's good use it yeah you see the and it's not the kind where
[01:44:12] it's good because it's generally healthy to take these things which it is but that's not the the main
[01:44:19] push in my opinion check the main thing is that if your joints are kind of kind of off jacks or
[01:44:29] do you do you do a lot do anything but if you if you do brick laying what does that Mason
[01:44:38] Mason if you're yeah like just from you know back elbows and then you start taking this you'll see
[01:44:46] that you'll feel that different you know specifically yeah and it's generally healthy anyway
[01:44:52] maintain the joints maintain the competency of your joints with jockel super krill joint warfare
[01:45:00] take them every day that's what I do in the routine also discipline pre workout it's a pre workout for
[01:45:06] me it's it's a pre mission for me it's a pre mission free trade up pre motion cognitive
[01:45:11] yeah and answer yeah and I'll tell you the only downfall of it right now well there's a couple
[01:45:17] number one it tastes delicious so you want to drink a lot of it number two the other day I drink
[01:45:22] oh a lot of it I'm gonna have to go and give a speech yeah I had to use the restroom right before
[01:45:29] I went on stage of general like yeah it's be careful well that's a general thing I know I like
[01:45:33] it doesn't have to be jockel discipline yeah you can do that with water careful yeah yeah you
[01:45:38] want to be careful but think you eat some of it like oh can we eat that eight some of it today it's
[01:45:43] see I'll try to avoid that yeah yeah yeah see so I like to took a mouth a little scoop yeah
[01:45:48] and it's not too bad in fact you know what you know you get like a shot of some really nasty alcohol
[01:45:56] keep it sure but it gives you like a little yeah sure guys you look at some of that yeah
[01:46:02] when you take just when you eat the straight powder sure which I'm now doing apparently
[01:46:06] it's gives you a little bit it gives you a little not only you get the effects of what's
[01:46:11] it but you get a little bit of a the main line yeah yeah that's kind of like when you're
[01:46:16] kid you buy the little cool lady you know when you be for you make the cool lady you get like a
[01:46:20] little you try that stuff straight yeah yeah it's like only it's not quite as horrible is that
[01:46:27] better than that it's better than cool lady no oh yeah definitely better than cool
[01:46:30] good jockel made a taste good he's into the taste good stuff anyway it's called
[01:46:34] did joc this it's called discipline called this yeah you'll see it anyway get at origin main
[01:46:40] dot com and also at origin main dot com you get you that's where you can get your ghee
[01:46:48] so you don't have to well you can still ask me what ghee get no don't ask anymore not
[01:46:53] not ask good I'll tell you I'll tell you and this is what I'll tell you good origin pick a
[01:46:57] ghee from there whichever when you want plenty of color not plenty of colors but the legit color
[01:47:01] you I have white I have one blue ghee that I never use all I have is white I have a black
[01:47:09] ghee someone gave me a black ghee and this is cool but I've never used it but
[01:47:14] because a lot of people ask me that too what color should I get yeah what color should you get
[01:47:18] I am very traditional and I use the white ghee but I do have a deaf ghee that's black
[01:47:24] black yes he's super dope but some schools they don't even allow other colors than white
[01:47:28] and blue yeah that's true but Pete says black is the is the number one seller okay like if
[01:47:36] just all colors black now can you compete iBJJF with a black ghee I don't know I forget but
[01:47:43] here's what we were talking about when you're a little kid and you think about martial arts what
[01:47:48] do you want to be the ninja you want to be an ninja yeah so now you got a 36 year old guy or a 28 year
[01:47:55] old guy and he finally he's feeling kind of ninja yes yeah what is he doing the legit too yeah
[01:48:02] then he's take that one extra step and he's got a black ghee boom ninja yeah in a matter of
[01:48:07] speaking yeah and I actually felt that that's part of the reason why I don't get a black ghee because
[01:48:12] I I kind of wanted like not like there's all Charles Bronson movie feathers what do you mean
[01:48:17] on old Charles Bronson movie called the mechanic yeah yeah there's a there's a there's a scene
[01:48:23] where their traditional karate guy is gonna fight a guy that's got some new tricks up his sleeve
[01:48:29] sure and the traditional karate guy has to get nuts on him yeah but these are just a plain white
[01:48:36] ghee yeah yeah yeah that's the tradition and Charles Bronson too yeah so I'm just you know
[01:48:41] yeah and in the line strangely I mainly stick to white because it's kind of that's the main like
[01:48:47] I'm not doing too much with the with the cool black one because the black one like I
[01:48:53] said about being ninja and it looks cool bright does it's really cool and but I didn't want to
[01:48:58] roll in and be like and they think oh what if you carry the girl cool with your black ghee kind of
[01:49:03] think you know the thing is I think it's progressed beyond that it's totally honest it's beyond that
[01:49:09] yeah you're not you're not standing out at all you have a black ghee now you might be if you go to
[01:49:16] a traditional you know school that has only white ghee yeah you're gonna stand out you come in
[01:49:20] and victory MMA in fitness you could be wearing a purple ghee no one's gonna care yeah I
[01:49:23] won't even look into your second camouflage yeah no one cares they might be like dang that's a
[01:49:26] cool camouflage ghee they might say that they might just put choke hold on you and get after it yeah
[01:49:33] so there it is I would say okay if they're saying hey jocco echo what ghee should I get what
[01:49:40] color should I get we know origin what color should I get a ask your school first yeah because
[01:49:45] some they don't allow you're gonna buy your cool black ghee or there's like army greener is there army greener
[01:49:52] you're gonna buy and they looked up and you're solid you're ready to go and you come in they
[01:49:55] see you can't train with that you can't have that some ask your school first if they allow all colors
[01:50:01] then that ones up to you yeah yeah but but the the point is with asking what color is that I think I
[01:50:08] think that they're like hey is there like a violation if I get this cool black one and you answer
[01:50:13] to it yeah now no unless your school does literally no factor literally no factor yeah
[01:50:20] so they got a you know an origin mean dot com that's where you get them also on it dot com slash jocco
[01:50:27] this is where I get the kettlebells the dope kettlebells you didn't talk about rash rash guards
[01:50:35] oh and origin yeah yeah and because the reason that I popped into my mind because they have spats now
[01:50:41] because they have spats now the first runa spats are green and like some other color yeah yellow
[01:50:49] line green yeah right you just didn't you don't worry I sent p to text now I'm not a got spats
[01:50:56] wearing dude I'm not wearing tights not happening just nothing against people that do there's some
[01:51:00] crazy due to two guys out there that are wearing tights like you read about yeah but I said I said
[01:51:07] AP not wearing tights yeah I know a lot of people that do make some black ones or something else
[01:51:14] yeah and he said got it yeah you can get obviously the rash guards are good to go yeah but now you
[01:51:21] can also get spats that are not so we're sticking with spats we're seeing what spats when we
[01:51:27] figured out the root of spats right or dope yeah it's a good thing yeah it's not it's I thought it
[01:51:32] would root back to you know some yeah some ballerina thing no it's a war yeah it's what you
[01:51:39] worn your legs when you're a cow for women yeah so we can say spats it's been approved yeah
[01:51:44] full of stuff yeah it's the same thing yeah it's you you take your shoe and your so we're good
[01:51:48] ankle yeah fully interesting color choice yeah the first one here's the thing though
[01:51:53] yeah about the spats yeah some colors you don't see like like if I was like hey I'm
[01:52:01] gonna wear this lime green and yellow thing whatever shirt spats whatever and you'd be like
[01:52:06] lime green yellow that just doesn't even sound good I'm looking at these two colors I don't think
[01:52:10] that's gonna look good but then you put it on a shirt or spats or something and then you put it on
[01:52:14] you're like oh dang that kind of works for some reason I'm not saying lime green and yellow does that
[01:52:18] I'm just saying certain color yeah combination here's the interesting thing peats my bro right
[01:52:23] sure me yeah literally with the first time I had a Skype conversation with Pete my wife is like
[01:52:31] it sounded like you were talking to yourself right because we and we know there's a four hour conversation
[01:52:35] by the way dang real now with that that being said I wouldn't have made spats that look like
[01:52:42] the first spats to be it come out with a million years now here's now here's the funny thing
[01:52:46] okay I can't even say I can't even say hey Pete don't you know no one's gonna like those you
[01:52:52] know why because my sense of fashion yeah is so off my sense of fashion is not exist yeah with
[01:52:59] it's literally not exist it would be not exist if you even had one yeah okay that's right well
[01:53:04] no it's not exist if you had one it would get it it's like double none okay yeah well so
[01:53:10] that's why I can't even say hey Pete I can't say I can't make a blanket saving like Pete
[01:53:15] people won't like those yeah I can't even say that because I have no idea so I just said what I do
[01:53:21] know is people would definitely like some black ones right yeah that's pretty safe to say so yeah
[01:53:28] yeah I don't mind the greener by the way but there you go no you even we've had this stuff we've
[01:53:34] had issues like this yes where you make things that I just don't yeah I'm not I'm the other
[01:53:38] on approved yeah on approved cross the board yeah but I just know you just kind of just don't know
[01:53:42] yeah I say okay you know I don't know that's I gotta stay humble over here yeah I can't claim to
[01:53:48] claim to have any any footing to stand on at all when it comes to fashion but that's any kind
[01:53:56] yeah and haircuts I'm pretty good with those you know what yeah sure if you had okay next question
[01:54:04] so yeah again origiming.com there's a lot of cool stuff on there's hoodie and stuff too by the way
[01:54:09] yeah which and this is a this is a buy it not biased what you call subjective
[01:54:16] when I was wearing the full origin sweat suit I don't I lay down on the couch just took a
[01:54:24] break whatever no I don't normally do that to break from what cruising you know you know
[01:54:30] doing whatever it is I was doing took a break lay down on the couch full sweat suit on origin
[01:54:35] it was the most comfortable moment I had in recent memory and just so everyone knows if you're talking
[01:54:42] about echoes comfort levels they're already you know comfort I know about it very familiar with it
[01:54:52] and yeah it was not saying a lot so yeah there it is okay back to on it the kettlebells that I get
[01:54:58] whole set up so I'm a set primal bills zombie bills legend bills they're the kettle bills
[01:55:09] that's where you get them on it.com slash jockel also they got some cool maces on there
[01:55:14] jockel is the mace right I do yeah but yeah one pounder you think 20 pounds is not heavy yeah
[01:55:22] it's heavy yeah it's really heavy that's one of those things and we kind of talked about it before
[01:55:26] where you wait like wait like this many pounds or you know kilos whatever it's not
[01:55:34] created equal like if it's shaped in a certain form yeah or formless or whatever that's way different
[01:55:41] yeah like my daughter I think I forget how much you've been weighs now like 53 pounds or something like
[01:55:47] that you think the puns is nothing this far as lifting this for you lift it yeah try lift
[01:55:51] 31 she don't want to be lifted right she's like she's a good piece like 150 pounds nonetheless
[01:55:59] the point there is with these maces and there's all this cool stuff to on there if you want to
[01:56:04] vary up your workout make it interesting unlike jockel's workout make it make yours interesting if
[01:56:10] you want to do that you don't have to there's some really good stuff on there check them out and you
[01:56:14] know if you want something get something also when you get Jordan Peterson's 12 rules
[01:56:24] just call 12 rules 12 rules 12 rules 12 rules for life and antidote to chaos Jordan B Peterson
[01:56:30] it's 12 rules for life is like it seems like a big claim you know yeah but they're pretty
[01:56:38] pretty solid yeah follow the song nonetheless that that is a good one um when you get that one
[01:56:45] and any of the other books don't worry I organize them all for you go to jockel podcast somebody said
[01:56:51] the other day on the internet said to me oh you should have a book club we got a book club
[01:56:58] go to jockel podcast dot com click on books all the books are there that's the club right there yeah
[01:57:04] don't have to ask me about the book club the books are there all right yeah idea we got to organize
[01:57:09] free by episode by the way little brief description click on there boom get your book from there it's a
[01:57:15] good way to support ticsy amazon you can get your book if you are doing another shopping hey carry on
[01:57:22] just do your thing go and stop you from that of course and that supports the podcast good way
[01:57:27] to support small action big reaction also subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already that one
[01:57:33] seems obvious I know but it's a good way to support just a little good way to support just in
[01:57:40] right out of you a funny review yeah i'm going like once a week now i go and read all the new
[01:57:45] reviews yeah for gems yeah there's some gems in there yeah if you feel like it um yeah so
[01:57:54] subscribe right of you review if you want subscribing youtube we have youtube channel if you didn't
[01:58:00] know that already um that's where the video version of this podcast resides like that reside good job
[01:58:08] also excerpts on there if you don't want to listen or watch should i say the whole episode or episodes
[01:58:16] got some excerpts on there you can just watch little you know little excerpts little tidbits of the
[01:58:22] podcast little ideas little lessons tips of advice shorter form you know when you take a break at work
[01:58:29] or whatever check not that you should be watching youtube at work but if you are you watch this
[01:58:35] boom get back to work more effective probably probably also some other stuff on there i'm
[01:58:42] gonna try to slowly add more and more what should i say content not just for the sake of adding
[01:58:47] content by the way because i make videos from time to time very spaced out now we can all there
[01:58:54] you know i'm trying to get them done then the lessons we're gonna put more and there's gonna be
[01:58:59] more and more on there it's a new year right what's February now okay let's keep real
[01:59:06] anyway moving on also joc was a store it's called jocosta jocosta dot com that this is the website
[01:59:17] online store where you can get discipline equals freedom shirts rash guards the victory mma and
[01:59:28] fitness shirt the jockel always wears like Einstein by the way i think Einstein wore the same thing
[01:59:33] every day too is that why you do it no i do it because it's simple not because Einstein does it
[01:59:38] actually they say that this is the u and i and i and where the same thing every day for the same
[01:59:42] reason yeah because you're decision making you know resources yeah i don't really believe all that
[01:59:49] i just believe i don't feel like sitting around thinking about what i'm gonna wear in the morning
[01:59:52] just grab the i have a shirt or guess what i'm sure it's put it on right you have bigger things to
[01:59:57] make decisions about it think about that's exactly what i'm saying that's what i read too so
[02:00:02] you guys you and Einstein are like i don't want to say obsessed you're like you just real into
[02:00:09] to more important things so what you wear that's that's that's that shouldn't take up too many
[02:00:16] of your decision making resources the thing about jocquist or yeah i don't know if you've ever
[02:00:21] made this clear well maybe you have but if you want to support the podcast that's a good way to
[02:00:27] support the podcast for a while people want us to do a thing where you donate money yeah and i said no
[02:00:33] if people want to support they we're not gonna ask for money and give them nothing yeah
[02:00:40] we'll give them something a t-shirt a hat a sticker yeah good stuff by the way it's not the
[02:00:46] shirt that makes the man it's the man that makes the shirt so okay there you go nonetheless
[02:00:53] there are some that cause you're the one that makes these shirts i think it's a that's a it's a
[02:00:58] different thing i think i saw it on the movie uh oh was it the one with Sean Connery and
[02:01:04] Catherine said it you're in the middle no remember that distilled something continue
[02:01:10] right you know what moving on the bottom anyway there's some hoodies on there some hats on there
[02:01:16] we're restocking actually i'm doing a thing because the people email because you know there's
[02:01:20] stuff out of stock in there yeah i guess what not never again
[02:01:24] i'm hesitant to say never say never but yeah never again okay so everything is in stock right now
[02:01:34] not necessarily okay come back when you're ready okay and anytime just keep in your land
[02:01:39] this is that i'm working on is all very close to being complete okay so they'll be available
[02:01:46] and some loose dusts gonna be on there also rash guards on there for g2 or for anything physical
[02:01:52] you know you do in physically you want to keep your range of motion you know whatever anyway you
[02:01:56] know what rash guards are they're pretty dope um also women stuff on there and
[02:02:03] i am not saying i say still i'm gonna say it again not saying buy something i'm saying go on there
[02:02:08] just look if you don't want anything then don't get something but if you do want something get
[02:02:13] something it's a good way to support also that's really a deep you know i'm trying to keep you
[02:02:18] yeah you know if you want something get something if you don't want something don't
[02:02:24] yeah right cool well abide by that is it kind of like you know how like when people say
[02:02:28] it is what it is what it is what they're you know let's say it is what it is
[02:02:35] jockels not gonna be anyone but jockel you know jockels jockels right same thing
[02:02:40] then what you say that you know kind of i say that for the same reason also psychological warfare
[02:02:48] if you know what that is it's an album with tracks jockel tracks not jockel planning you
[02:02:54] could lay lay or the violin or what else do you play not play the violin i can't really play
[02:02:58] the drums too well either yeah but you play stuff nonetheless it's not of that it's jockel
[02:03:05] giving you so each track is joc a jockels how should I say tips that really tips they're kind
[02:03:12] of tips on how to eliminate the weakness that you're feeling at any given moment on your path
[02:03:17] on your campaign on the campaign against weakness that's what it is so if you're about to skip
[02:03:24] your workout because you don't feel like it be you don't think you have time or something like this
[02:03:31] or usually it's because you don't feel like it because you worked out yesterday your kind of
[02:03:36] sore like you were gonna do squats today but you did a bunch of parapise yesterday so you're
[02:03:43] going back in your quads they're kind of sore so you're like maybe I'll just do it tomorrow no
[02:03:50] so all you gotta do it's like put in psychological warfare listen to isn't there's a track for
[02:03:57] that inhale it'll just explain just in his own little jockel way explain why you shouldn't do that
[02:04:02] why you should just do the workout and after you listen to you'll be like dang that makes sense
[02:04:06] and guess what boom all of a sudden you're doing the workout you didn't skip it so what you do
[02:04:11] if you like that you can also get discipline equals freedom field manual on iTunes Amazon music
[02:04:18] google play other MP3 platforms it's not on audible it's not on audible it's available as an album
[02:04:27] actually two albums also hit jockel white tea which as everybody now knows will increase your dead
[02:04:34] lift to a minimum of eight thousand pounds been proven over and over again everyone knows it now it's
[02:04:39] really not impressive anymore since so many people are hitting ninety thousand pound max
[02:04:43] books during bpterson maps of meaning is his first book it's old it's big it's expensive I have it
[02:04:54] it's it's a great read also twelve rules for life and then dirty chaos way the warrior kid
[02:05:01] so way the warrior kid kids book teaching kids to how get how to get on the path now
[02:05:08] there's a new book coming out a new warrior kid book it is available now on amazon it's called
[02:05:15] way the warrior kid marks mission it's a follow up the first book was fifth grade the second book
[02:05:23] sixth grade marks getting a little older guess what he so that's the problem to solve and he's
[02:05:29] gonna solve them so you can order that also as I already mentioned discipline equals freedom field manual
[02:05:38] that is available if you want to get bigger stronger faster smarter more disciplined better
[02:05:47] get that book and then implement it because you can get the book and sit sit around and play video games
[02:05:52] it's not gonna make you any of those things you have to actually get it you have to read it you have to
[02:05:56] implement it so that works also with the warrior kids don't forget you can get some warrior kids sop
[02:06:05] basically I got some did you get some yeah yeah it's good to go iris oaks ranch dot com
[02:06:13] young aiden who's a warrior kid making his own soap business owner age 12 check that out
[02:06:21] extreme ownership book by myself and my brother lathe babbin it's about combat leadership
[02:06:30] it's about how to lead that's what it's about and people think that's a simple thing it's not
[02:06:35] even her journey be during bebeaters and say today leadership is very complicated he's right
[02:06:42] so extreme ownership will help you in your leadership skills tactics and strategies also
[02:06:50] if you need leadership guidance and direction at your company at your business or at your team
[02:06:56] beyond what would give you here on this podcast and beyond the books I have a leadership
[02:07:01] amendment consulting company it's called echelon front where we will get the leadership you have
[02:07:09] and thereby your whole organization aligned and moving forward together it's me it's life babbin
[02:07:15] it's jp denel it's Dave Burke you can email info at echelon front dot com or you can go to
[02:07:22] the website echelon front dot com also there is the master this is a leadership seminar
[02:07:31] that hits you like an atom bomb so the master everyone that's been to it there's nothing else
[02:07:41] like it the people that work at the hotels are done at that and said there's nothing else like it so
[02:07:47] it's awesome if you want to come to it we're only doing two monsters this year we don't have time
[02:07:51] to do more we're doing one in Washington DC May 17th and 18th that's for the east coast people may 17th
[02:07:59] and 18th Washington DC and then we're going to do San Francisco October 17th and 18th
[02:08:05] that's for your west coast people those the only two monsters that we're doing this here we're not
[02:08:09] doing van cover we're not doing it lander we're not doing Memphis we're not doing Tampa those are all
[02:08:14] great cities but we're not going to do a muster there we've had four monsters already San Diego New York
[02:08:22] city San Diego again and Austin Texas all the monsters that we've done have sold out these two that
[02:08:29] we're doing this year are going to sell out as well so if you want to come register at extreme ownership
[02:08:33] dot com we will see you there and until then if you want to get on the path with us you can find us
[02:08:42] we'll be cruising on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on that Facebook boku boha
[02:08:55] Jordan Peterson is at Jordan B Peterson he's also got the YouTube channel Jordan Peterson
[02:09:02] he's got Jordan Peterson dot com echo is at echo Charles and I am at jacca willink and finally
[02:09:10] thanks to all of you I know a lot of men and women in uniform listen to this podcast I hear from you all the
[02:09:18] time well we would not have this podcast if it wasn't for you overseas holding the line and keeping
[02:09:28] evil at bay and to the people in uniform here at home police law enforcement firefighters
[02:09:35] paramedics and the rest of you first responders thank you for keeping us safe inside our borders
[02:09:44] and to everyone else out there moving through life and that's good that's fine but I recommend
[02:09:52] you don't just move through life I recommend you move down the path get stronger and faster and
[02:10:02] smarter and better every day aim to be the best and as Jordan Peterson right so eloquently in
[02:10:11] his book always place your becoming above your current being in other words get up and get after it
[02:10:26] until next time this is echo and jacca out