Jocko Podcast 109 w/ Echo Charles: "Stalingrad Memories of Hell"

2018-01-18T17:29:21Z

Join the conversation on Twitter/Instagram: @jockowillink @echocharles 0:00:00 - Opening 0:14:55 - "Stalingrad Memories of Hell" : http://amzn.to/2FJHXrZ 2:07:18 - Final Thoughts and Take-Aways 2:21:42 - Support: JockoStore stuff, Super Krill Oil and Joint Warfare and Discipline Pre-Mission, THE MUSTER 005 in DC. Origin Brand Apparel and Jocko Gi, with Jocko White Tea,  Onnit Fitness stuff, and Psychological Warfare (on iTunes). Extreme Ownership (book), The Discipline Equals Freedom Field Manual.  2:41:22 - Closing Gratitude.

AI summary of episode

and you know there's this whole thing about Hitler's mustache You know Hitler's got the funny mustache and There's some debate on on how much of this is Actually true, but whether it's true or not as a little bit it doesn't really matter Because what it represents so the deal was that Hitler's mustache if you wanted to have a mustache during World War one Because of wearing a gas mask you had to cut your mustache like that Mm-hmm Hitler still wore his mustache like that it was like a constant symbol that He remembered he remembered because he was in World War one and he was wounded in World War one and Through even despite all that insane sacrifice they didn't win and They didn't like the way they got treated by the treated Versailles and so they had that angst They had the economic angst they had all those angst built up and hit look came along and was Ready to let them focus on something else and and now what what Weedor is realizing here is like yeah, he had us focus on something else Yeah, especially because they they all kind of know that there's no strategic Advantage to what they're doing Back to the book Colonel General Paulus and his chief of staff who's fanatic will to hold out was well known among the staffs Relentlessly held on to their fatal decision On their part many generals and their staffs remain the executioners of the orders of destruction under the sorry circumstances for fighting Suffering and dying continued Torcheringly and terribly after the splitting of the pocket the death agony of the army continued for a further week In the general dissolution and catastrophe it was every man for himself More and more order and discipline broke down here and there and the sellers the still able body didn't combat Were the hit among the second wounded cases of uncomrarotterly conduct theft of provisions refusal to obey orders and open mute knee-mounted The little late The elementary drive of self preservation no longer allowed the question of right or wrong to be raised and the same way that the differences Between the front line and rear line S. and the rear echelon were being erased so were the differences in rank and position In the final days summary law was imposed in stollongrad with drastic punishments for any crime Looters were to be shot within 24 hours hundreds of German soldiers who had become weak in their misery thus became victims of German bullets One could no longer generally speak of courageous and heroic fighting Certainly here and there there were individual deeds of courage personal initiative and noble self self sacrifice But by and large Only a mute submission to the inescapable fate remained to the bitter end It was rather the silent heroism of acceptance of suffering and submitting Not the picture that gets painted very often now at this point at this point right now in this battle is when they hear that speech That goering said talking about this great sacrifice and how they fought so well and how they'll be remembered forever and compared them to lianides and the 300 Spartans at thermopoli. Yeah, it's I wonder how much of it is that you know like the soldiers and that even the people in the Nazi party I wonder how much of it is like denial, you know, you know where it's you know how like you're signed on to like some leader during the during the time being They're simple enviable winter clothing and good weapons Sun sub machine guns everywhere and the uniform picture of sheep skins Patted jackets felt boots and fur caps with broad earmuffs swinging up and down The warmly bundled up well merged and splendidly equipped men of the red army with their chunky mostly red sheet faces Formed a stark contrast to our death-free pale filthy Bearded and freezing figures of misery who hung exhausted and sick and they're makes shift winter clothing Consisting of all kinds of fur's blanket scarfs field gray head gear wounds and inadequate foot gear This sudden meeting and comparison at once showed me how low we had sunk and how little we had been prepared for this murderous battle Then the Soviets kind of the Russians kind of have their Shots at him fritzy fascist Hitler kaput They alternated threats and obviously dreadful curses and contemptuous spit Like raging wolfs, vengeful soldiers from the rear echelons fell on the helpless victims time and time again to steal personal baggage and event their spleen So now they're captured and the the Russians start to kind of sing and dance and and sing and old folk songs Back to the book all the noise and exuberance surrounding me formed a shrieking contrast to the inner and outer state which I found myself Torn for my circle of comrades left to myself and my emotions in the midst of the joyful dancing and singing Victors with whom no contact could be established in my inner heart I felt abandoned and without hope totally depressed Upluted cut off from home sunk far away subjugated to a foreign will pitously Pityously thrown to the mercy of an unknown powers To be dependent on the whim of the victor constantly watched menacingly surrounded by barbed wire and guns forced to relinquish any kind of external freedom captivity men an unknown form of human submission and humiliation It is a bounty for us human beings that a merciful hand covers the future from our eyes with an impenetrable veil That's a really great line Had I known then that I was destined for more than seven Comfortless years devoid of love and filled with previously unknown mental and physical tortures and fearful uncertainties On the borderline of life I never would have found the strength to stand the sufferings of the initial hard months of captivity There's till people being disciplined In the midst of the general suffering and dying we helplessly watch the catastrophe and of destruction approaching us mercilessly and inexorably The terrible human tragedy that was nearing its climax was finally commented commented upon by the war News broadcasted home in the pretty and spirited words Equate in stonel and grad Sixth Army is attaching immortal honor to its banners by its heroic and self-sacrificing battle against crushing odds Many of my comrades had mentally written themselves off intentions to commit suicide were voiced with increasing frequency Others had given their valuables and wedding rings to be to the wounded being flown out I Myself had been had so far been at pain to prepare my relatives for the catastrophe by means of sparse hints Now I felt the need to send home open word of farewell and gratitude The letter was hard to write in my ears once more rang rang the last goodbye my wife and Employingly and besiegingly called down the telephone line to Kiev on a spring evening of last year before the seemingly Endless space of Russian planes had swallowed me up Now all would soon be over When I sealed the letter I was gripped by a specially deep despair I felt as though I were suddenly looking into an abyss of suffering and hopelessness towards which our whole nation was Reeling as if the events in stalin grad were a preview of an Immeasurable disaster that was to break upon Germany The general of this division division had a nervous breakdown and was no longer fit for command His hopes of being flown out with the badly wounded and second not been fulfilled He now had to share the fate of his soldiers to the bitter end This general who a short time before was a commander of a division had carried the responsibility from many thousands of men Was once more a mere human being trembling for his life Then did his questions not reveal the same fear that secretly tormented all of us We made one another realize that the impending military Cretastrophe was also a political catastrophe the result of presumptuous beliefs and actions that had long Shaken the healthy foundations of our intellectual cultural and national life Had the power that we served as citizens and soldiers bent its knee before the law that was rooted in the code of ethics Or rather had not a new gospel of violence been proclaimed and introduced that in a fatal reversal of all values had ceased to differentiate Between right and wrong There was only one last support The comforting strength of the Christian belief Perhaps we could pass some of this comfort and support on to other comrades who bewildered were Reeling toward the abyss In their desperation faced with the destruction of a whole world of concepts and in a view of the senseless Senselessness of the catastrophe many a soldier on the staffs as well as within the fighting troops had reached for his pistol to put an end to his life There was no way back and no escape other disguise their secret fear and inner feelings of emptiness Behind a contrived soldierly stance or even deliberately assumed to the cast of Mind of a lanks neck Which is like these guys were these old school German mercenaries that were Super hardcore if they themselves were doomed to go under they would at least sell their skin So dearly to the end and take as many Russians with them as they could now that's interesting he's he's projecting on these soldiers That you know that they're disguising their secret fear You know what I'm telling you right now that some of those Nazi German soldiers they were They were getting after it right they weren't they weren't hiding their their secret fear by acting tough they were ready to die for the fear So let's not just paint with a broad brush there in my opinion If we agreed that suicide was out of the question for religious and ethical reasons As normal we human beings caught up in error and guilt there was nothing left to To us put to drink the cup of suffering to the last bitter drags But they no longer needed to make such a highly costly attempt time was on their side By bearing down on our tenacious defense with a crushing attack our enemy had won its penetration into the pocket Now he was no longer in a hurry and no longer appeared to consider his victim to be very dangerous The battle that had begun in the meantime was merely a question of finishing off a wounded game already marked For death For some time already the Russians had dictated the course of events The date of our final end depended on their will alone The stations of the cross of an army of 200,000 soldiers particularly because of the slow helpless death of such a vast number of human beings Made anything seen before with the exception of verb done pale by comparison A part of the entire German nation was sentenced to death here and by this its vital substance was dangerously under attack The moral effect of these events touched the whole nation In the midst of the general destruction of the army there were thousands of individual tragedies whose localities of horror were the numerous collection points for the sick and wounded whole convoys of mostly open trucks overloaded with their pitiful freight of freezing wounded groaning sick and dying move deeper into the pocket From the second half of January until the bitter end The harsh suffering of the fighting soldiers continued by day and night After eight evil weeks of indescribable torture and deprivations They were now plunged into a veritable hell of hopelessness and destruction Time and again it was fight resist hold to the end then disengage with draw turn back and dig in again for defense in the snow and stonally Harg frozen earth time and again there were heavy losses panic and flight and then never ending use the struggle Struggle against hunger and cold Among the staffs there was an unending tension Proplexity and despair and feverish The staff's first heard the news that the army group Don under field marshal van mainstein von Mainstein had begun the long hope Relief for the long hope for relief operation Soon the good news that also reached the troops the words gave new impetus everywhere Particularly on the hard pressed western perimeter of the pocket spread like lightning mains that manstein is coming The already dying hopes burst further new new courage Happy expectations a new spirit of initiative began to blossom the sufferings and sacrifices to date had not been in vain after all Salvation was now back ining what the fear had promised he was bound to deliver So they get word bandstimes coming This is this this is good if everything went well they thought the hour of all relief could just coincide with Christmas The motorized groups and strong tank units being led by Colonel General Hoff Elements of which had been brought in from France and great haste had begun their relief offensive Hoff spearhead tanks were only 50 kilometers away Hold on we're coming Said one of the encouraging radio messages which spread like wire fire amongst the western edge of the pocket so they're in radio communication 50 kilometers you're coming in from training day Movies and yeah, actually and then come to think about it these concepts right here today when you're saying you know You know when it's going to take for example when it's going good it's easy to turn the blind Isn't that kind of a lot of movies how it is it's like the guy does real good They might still be able to find some warmth Food rest sleep and salvation and so they streamed by the remains of the shattered and decimated formation Trains and re-election on services with vehicles that were slowly being dragged and pushed by wounded sick and frost bitten men There were a macheted figures among them muffled in coats, rags, pitiful rags, painfully dragging themselves forward Leaning on sticks and hobbling all along the frozen feet wrapped in whispers of straw and strips of blankets Drifting along through the snowstorm this was the wreck of the six-th Army that had advanced to the vulga during the summer so confident of victory Men from all over Germany doomed to destruction in a far-off land mutely enduring their suffering Tottered in pitiful drove Drills through the murderous eastern winter These were the same soldiers who had formally marched through the large parts of Europe's as proud conquerors Now the enemy was at their backs and death lurked everywhere There's an interesting piece that I don't go into too much but this guy had written a paper and presented it up the chain of command with talking about what happened in Napoleon and he got kind of told like hey that's not going to happen us back to the book the events of 1812 seemed to be repeating themselves after all once again the Uncanny Russian space was swallowing many tens of thousands of human beings despite Napoleon's Experience the basic elements of geography and meteorology had again been ignored to a frightening degree On top of that the modern superstition that with the help of machines and motors the impossible could be accomplished and the dangers of space overcome had also contributed to our downfall And in a fatal pact with the overestimation of mechanized means of war had stood the misapprehension of the limits of human strength and possibilities We go back to the book an important meeting of the general staff took place at our core Which the commander in chief of the army general Paul is attended with his chief of staff the serious reserved Expression of the tall figure with the head of a scientist reflected something of a burden of responsibility that press down Tormentingly on the shoulders of this man Who is the last time I was to see our army commander in the pocket as far as I can remember he never visited our core again I soon learned of the outcome of the meeting and the grave words of our general staff officers left no doubt about the consequences of the orders that had been issued in the meantime They dealt with the mobilization of the last reserves of the sixth army the encircled forces would a hold on and fight to the last For this purpose the formation of fortress battalions was to be prepared and executed as quickly as possible All remaining reserves of able-bodied men were to be collected and used as infantry members of the Luftwaffe ground personnel and anti-aircraft Troops gunners who no longer had guns, pans or grenadiers, engineers, truck drivers, clerical staffs, re-election law and supply personnel or once again to be ruthlessly combed out The order amounted to the virtual dissolution of the re-election law services and clearly demonstrated that the Emovalized army was doomed to stay put and fight to the last man and the last bullet So it's gonna make you uneasy there's something like a I feel like that guy That guy got a certain level of satisfaction just by saying like don't worry We're coming like he had this moment of glory. So I mean he's like that's the wrong question to ask you know he's like wait what do you mean he's like He's like just just don't ask that question basics. You got to finish sprint through the finish Like or that like races like a hundred meter dash, you know the guys like or the 200 meter Yeah In the meantime something unbelievable to happen and made quickly made the rounds our quartermaster A still young general staff officer had suddenly disappeared his driver who had taken to the Gumrak air base had waited in vain for his return the lieutenant Colonel was missing He had silently left Stalin-Grad left the Stalin-Grad pocket the zone of death and destruction on his own initiative Probably is a mixture of nerves fear cowardice and the vain hope then in the general confusion He might be able to fly out and save his life that attempted him to desert The commanding general had made increase by radio the deserting staff officer had shown up at army group Plaming the flow now on official assignment from the core on matters of supply Our general was wild with indignation and rage to declare that he would have the criminal flown back into the pocket and shot before our eyes We were all deeply depressed and and with and anticipated with horror the terrible scene that had been announced And which we were spared to our relief our quartermaster was shot outside the pocket on the spot where in his fatal weakness He had hoped to find a door to freedom in life so again even though I just talked about some of the Nazis being Committed to the end there was many of them that were just trying to get the hell out of there Back to the book our commanding general spoke openly of the impending collapse Occusingly and with bitterness and secret anger he pointed out that it was not our fault We had gotten into this deviless situation of a catastrophe from which there was no longer means of escape.

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Episode transcript

[00:00:00] This is Jockel Podcast number 109 with echo Charles and me, Jockel Willick. Good evening, echo. Good evening.
[00:00:09] 1 September 1942, the Army in the field.
[00:00:16] Comrade fighters, commanders, and political workers, heroic defenders of Stalin-Grod.
[00:00:24] The bitter fighting for the city of Stalin-Grod has been raging for months. The Germans have lost hundreds of tanks and planes.
[00:00:33] Hitler's brutalized hordes are advancing towards Stalin-Grod and the Volga over mountains of dead bodies of their own men and officers.
[00:00:43] Our Bolshevik party, our nation, our great country, have given us the task not to let the enemy reach the Volga to defend the city of Stalin-Grod.
[00:00:54] The defensive Stalin-Grod is of decisive importance for the whole Soviet front.
[00:01:01] Without sparing our strength and with scorn for death, we shall defy the Germans the way to the Volga and not give up Stalin-Grod.
[00:01:11] Each one of us must bear in mind that the capture of Stalin-Grod by the Germans and their advance to the Volga will give our enemies new strength and weaken our own forces.
[00:01:21] Not one step back.
[00:01:25] The war council expects unlimited courage, tenacity, and heroism in the fight with the on-rushing enemy from all the fighters, commanders, and political workers from all the defenders of Stalin-Grod.
[00:01:40] The enemy must and will be smashed on the approaches to Stalin-Grod.
[00:01:47] Forward against the enemy, up into the unremitting battle comrades for Stalin-Grod for our great country, death to the German invader.
[00:02:05] So that is a clearly a note from the general on the ground.
[00:02:13] The member of the war council of the Stalin-Grod and southwest front lieutenant general, Khrushchev, sent to the troops, obviously, that were preparing to defend Stalin-Grod.
[00:02:28] Now, there was another commander in the field by the name of Paulus, and he sent a note to Hitler on 23 November 1942, my fear.
[00:02:45] Since receipt of your radio message of evening 22-1-1 events have come thick and fast, we have not succeeded in closing the pocket to the southwest and west, impending enemy penetrations begin to emerge there.
[00:03:01] Ammunition in fuel are coming to an end.
[00:03:04] Numerous batteries and tanks have shot themselves dry. A timely and adequate supply is impossible. The army will shortly be destroyed unless a concentration of forces succeeds in totally defeating the enemy attacking from the south and west.
[00:03:22] For this, we must immediately withdraw all forces from Stalin-Grod and strong detachments from the northern front. Un avoidable sequel must then be a breakout towards the southwest since eastern and northern front can no longer be held with such weak forces.
[00:03:40] In this case, we will lose much material, but the majority of the valuable combatants and at least a part of the material will be preserved.
[00:03:49] I retain full responsibility for this message, even if I add that commanding general's heights, strecker, cube, jackmill, von sidelets all share this evaluation of the situation.
[00:04:03] Based on the situation, I again request freedom of action.
[00:04:08] I will highlight my fear, signed Paulus. The Russians were effective in surrounding the Germans. The Germans, 6th Army, is a matter of fact, 250 to 300,000 men fully surrounded by the Russians.
[00:04:28] Here's what Hitler wrote back. 6 Army has been temporarily encircled by Russian forces. I intend to concentrate the army in the area, Stalin-Grod north,
[00:04:39] Kutduban Hill 137 Hill 135, Mere Novka, Zabenko, Solid-Grad South. The army may rest assured that I will do everything to bring supplies to it accordingly and relieve it in time.
[00:04:55] I know the brave 6 Army and its commander in chief, and I am sure it will do its duty. Signed 8-Auf Hitler.
[00:05:08] So, and we'll get into this Hitler over and over again, is asked if the troops on the ground can try to escape from Stalin-Grad and over and over again, he says, no, you cannot leave, you will fight to the last bullet.
[00:05:26] And on the 30th January 1943, Herman Goring, who is the Nazi Reichs Marshall of the entire German Reichs, so he's this senior military man of the entire German army from 1940 until the end of the war.
[00:05:44] And even though Stalin-Grad had not fallen yet, he gave this speech about their sacrifice of these German soldiers.
[00:05:58] And he gave it, you know, it was obviously heard on the radio, etc. And it spread, and actually the soldiers on the ground in Stalin-Grad.
[00:06:09] The German soldiers heard this speech. And again, we'll get more to what the reactions were, but I'm going to read that part of that speech right now.
[00:06:19] It made one shutter, but Stalin had enormous masses at his disposal, and used old men, women and children, and did not bother about supplies or sufficient food or transport. The Russians used the whip or the bullet.
[00:06:34] The Germans alone could resist and could wrestle with such an adversary, everything depended on them.
[00:06:40] With the greatest respect to other nations, the Germans are the only ones in Europe in a position to break Russia and destroy Bolshevism.
[00:06:49] Of all the terrific battles, the battle for Stalin-Grad stood out like a gigantic monument, which would one day be regarded as the greatest and most heroic battle in German history.
[00:07:01] So he's referring to this in the past tense once again. This hasn't been, this hadn't finished yet, but he's referring to it like it's in the past tense, because for all practical purposes, it was.
[00:07:14] Back to the document, every German soldier would come to pronounce the word, Stalin-Grad, with holy awe and remember that it was there that Germany set the seal of final victory,
[00:07:28] because people that fought like that must win. Germany has now become the guarantor of European freedom, culture and life, but for the fighters of Stalin-Grad, the Russians might have obtained their objective. Now they are too late.
[00:07:47] The defenders of Stalin-Grad had obeyed the law, which everyone must obey the law to die for Germany. This law was not only binding on soldiers, but on the whole German nation.
[00:08:02] The nation must not question whether it's stand at Stalin-Grad has been necessary or not. The law had ordered them to do so. So here it's in, don't question,
[00:08:11] don't question this sacrifice of 250,000 men, don't question it. It was of no concern to the German soldier whether he died at Stalin-Grad in the African desert or Norway.
[00:08:24] He always sacrificed himself, so that his nation might live.
[00:08:31] In hours, when some people perhaps tried to install morbid and slie thoughts into your brains, then we must always look at the fear, their shining and greatest example.
[00:08:46] They could believe that the Almighty had led this man a godsent man to pass through innumerable dangers and become greater and greater, all for nothing.
[00:09:00] That provenance had given them this man who had made them into the strongest nation in the world.
[00:09:08] These are guarantees that justify our belief in victory. So we're talking about Hitler here, by the way, as a godsent man.
[00:09:20] The difficult times are really less tested and people prove their worth in hard trials. I, the commander in chief of the Lufroffta, suffered exceptionally when I heard of the results of the bombings.
[00:09:34] And although I did my best to prevent it from happening, it must be recognized as unavoidable and must not influence our will for resistance.
[00:09:45] And I know a tremendous heroic song from a match without equal that was called the Battle of the Neblones.
[00:09:53] They too stood in a hall of fire and fire, quenching their thirst with their own blood, but fought and fought to the last.
[00:10:04] Such a fight is raging there today, because a people who can fight like that must win.
[00:10:13] And before these men, a millennia, previous, their stood in a small, gorgeous, Greece and infinitely brave and daring man with his 300.
[00:10:28] Leonites stood with 300 Spartans from a tribe known for its bravery and boldness. And an overwhelmingly numerical superior enemy attacked and attacked again and again, even then it was a rush from the Asian east against the Nordic people.
[00:10:48] Huge numbers of men were available to Zerxes, but the 300 men did not waver or falter fighting a losing battle, hopeless but not meaningless.
[00:11:00] And then the last man fell. And in this bottleneck, there is a sentence.
[00:11:08] Wanderer, if you come to Sparta report that you had seen us lying here as the law commanded.
[00:11:18] They were 300 men, my comrades, and millennia have passed, but today that battle that sacrifice still counts as the greatest example of heroic soldiering.
[00:11:31] And today this fight is there. The sacrifice is there in Stalingrad. And one day it will be said if you go to Germany.
[00:11:40] Tell them you have seen us lying in Stalingrad as the law commanded us to protect the security of our people.
[00:11:56] And as I said, those were the words of Herman Goring, who is the senior officer of the German military at that time.
[00:12:08] And those words were his words. And of course, his words were lies.
[00:12:19] And all of them were lies, and no one knew that better than the men on the ground in and around the Russian city of Stalingrad.
[00:12:27] Nearly 1500 miles away from Berlin, freezing, starving, surrounded, low on ammunition, lacking medical supplies, and lacking cold weather gear, and lacking any kind of real leadership.
[00:12:45] And also served in a nation that lacked the moral high ground.
[00:12:54] As a matter of fact, their nation's leaders lacked any kind of morality at all, and this is clear in the aggression that they unleashed in the world and the atrocities that they committed mass murder of millions of people.
[00:13:06] And it's clear that they had no morality whatsoever based on how they treated their own soldiers.
[00:13:17] Who, like many soldiers, were men that were fighting not for political powers or for political ideals created in an ivory tower thousands of miles away from them.
[00:13:34] But for the ideals of a soldier himself, duty and courage and honor, that's what soldiers fight for, and the ultimate thing that they fight for.
[00:13:51] As we have heard time and time again is for their brothers on the line with them to their left and to their right.
[00:14:03] And one of those men was named Johakeem Weater.
[00:14:12] He was an intelligence officer in the eighth core of the German six army.
[00:14:17] And he wrote about his experiences in a book called Stalin Grad, Memories of Hell, where he recalls what he and other German soldiers went through physically mentally and spiritually.
[00:14:38] As they were abandoned by their leaders, as they were abandoned by life, and as they were abandoned by hope itself.
[00:14:59] Let's go to the book.
[00:15:07] Again, this is Johakeem Weater.
[00:15:15] And the book is called Stalin Grad Memories of Hell.
[00:15:21] After meticulous preparations of gigantic proportions, the Russians with their overwhelming, superior armor and cavalry forces attacking, like lightning from the north and the following day from the east.
[00:15:32] And the press to our entire sixth army into an iron vice.
[00:15:38] Within three days, the encircling ring was closed at Colach on the Dan and on the Don and constantly reinforced.
[00:15:47] And we stared at our situation maps on which menacing thick red lines of encirclement and arrows showed the enemy attacks, penetrations and directions of advance. We had never imagined a catastrophe of such proportions to be possible.
[00:16:04] The mighty wedges of the Russian armored columns could not be stopped and a myriad of highly mobile cavalry troops increased the model and confusion in the rear of the bloody rent front of the army.
[00:16:20] Obviously, I skipped a little bit moving into this point, but at this point they're completely surrounded, like I said, cut off and the Russians are applying the pressure.
[00:16:34] The enemy appeared to be systematically invading our blows and to be withdrawing into the depths of Russia.
[00:16:40] So this is going, he's kind of reflecting back on how they ended up there and he says that he says the enemy appeared to be systematically invading our blows and to be withdrawing into the depths of Russia.
[00:16:50] This is what the Russians do. That's what they didn't Napoleon in 1812 and they're doing it again here.
[00:16:59] And he back to the book, taking as a whole, this was a master piece of general staff thinking, today I'm convinced that those withdrawals of what Russian forces during the summer of 1942 were an outstanding enactment of traditional war Russian war tactics.
[00:17:15] So Hitler got lowered in and they didn't pay attention. They didn't reflect on history. And as we all, as most people know, this was also Hitler opening another front and trying to fight on multiple fronts at the same time, which goes against a certain law of combat called prioritizing execute.
[00:17:37] And then he said, you know, you're going to have to focus your forces on your most important thing and then move on Hitler gets a F on prioritizing execute.
[00:17:47] Back to the book, it had now come to pass.
[00:17:51] We were actually caught in a trap. How will we to get out?
[00:17:54] This situation in the pocket, he refers to this area as the pocket. This is the pocket of Russian soldiers.
[00:18:10] So that's by the way, that's how you end up in these situations. And the Germans absolutely believe their own propaganda that they were the best soldiers and that they were the master race and that these bullshifix couldn't fight them.
[00:18:24] When you believe that, you think you can march right into the Stonegrunt. And take it. The wind is not going to bother you. Admittedly, an eerie memory arose within me and intensified my apprehensive unrest with each passing day.
[00:18:40] It was the memory of several fanatical statements that Hitler had recently made in public speeches. The German soldier he said, now stood on the Volka and no power on earth could make him leave the Supreme War Lord, that's a reference to Hitler.
[00:18:58] He's got an encodes. The Supreme War Lord had emphatically committed himself, he had prophesized and demanded that Stalin grunt be relentlessly attacked and taken.
[00:19:12] Presumptuous terms, he had even sworn before God and history never again to relinquish on this conquest, presenting it as already achieved with such an attitude as this on the part of the Supreme War Lord was giving up the Volga and retreating conceivable at all.
[00:19:34] So Hitler had painted himself into a corner with a paintbrush of arrogance and an ended up in this situation where he's saying no more never going to leave.
[00:19:46] And he does not.
[00:19:49] Back to the book, the fate of more than a quarter million human beings were decided over such a distance so that the fear of headquarters is 2000 miles, 2000 kilometers, it's like 1500 miles distant away.
[00:20:01] And they're making decisions. This is called micro management. By the way, this is called micro management. This is not decentralized command.
[00:20:09] This is the fourth law of combat from the book called Extreme Ownership. Hitler gets an F on decentralized command. He's micro managing his troops that are 1500 miles away.
[00:20:20] The fate of more than a quarter million human beings was decided over such a distance from there hit the repeatedly addressed orders and appeals directly to Stalin to the Stalin-Grad army, which had been removed from under the command of army group, and reassigned to the newly formed army group, Don, and then Don, D.O. and is a river.
[00:20:39] Now, everybody knew that they needed to perform a military maneuver referred to as a breakout, which means you picture your inner circle, you're surrounded by troops. You pick one part of that circle of the people that are surrounded you and you attack and you break through.
[00:20:57] It sounds like what it is. It's a breakout. Everybody knew that they needed a breakout. They're like, hey, we're surrounded. We need fuel. We need water. We need food. We don't have any of that. We need to break out.
[00:21:08] And so, everyone was kind of prepared to do that. Back to the book. Our army still deposed about 130 combat ready tanks and about the same number of armored scout cars and other armored vehicles.
[00:21:20] In other words, we still had a powerful motorized units available. Everywhere people were waiting for the relieving signal for the breakout.
[00:21:29] With fluttering hearts, we followed the preparations that were taking place mainly in the western sector of the army. In anticipation of the expected operation, the order had been given to destroy all superfluous material.
[00:21:43] Everywhere damaged guns, tanks, and trucks useless communication and engineering equipment, huge amounts of clothing, files, and paper even food were being consigned to flames. So they all think that they're going to break out.
[00:21:55] They're assuming, look, we're going to break out. This is the only solution right now. Where surrounded, we need to attack one area and get out of here. So they start going, okay, before we leave, we're going to burn this fuel, we're going to burn this food. We're not going to leave anything for the Russians.
[00:22:09] Back to the book, according to the decision by army command that retreat from Stalingrad was to begin on 26 November.
[00:22:17] We did not entertain the slightest doubt that this supreme command must be convinced of its necessity. We counted firmly on its being carried out.
[00:22:27] I will never forget how stunned we all were. The agitation, yes, the petrifying horror that befell us, especially among the higher ranks of our staff, went on 24 November.
[00:22:38] The message came in from army that Hitler had forbidden the planned breakout and finally ordered the Stalingrad army to temporarily take up a position of all around defense.
[00:22:50] So it was says no, you're not leaving. Oh, you're surrounded. By the way, they're surrounded by a force of about a million Russian soldiers, but but it's more than that because they're surrounded by the country of Russia.
[00:23:07] Back to the book, the fatal radio message from the distant fear headquarters had come like a stroke of lightning.
[00:23:16] For bidding the plan with draw of our northern front, the detachment of our forces from Stalingrad and thereby the hope for the breakout.
[00:23:24] This decision by the supreme command was just as heavy a blow for the staff at the army as it was for us.
[00:23:30] We were unable to satisfy ourselves as to why all the reports, adminsions and requests for our responsible of our responsible higher staffs who were best able to judge the events and all the dangers they entailed had not been successful.
[00:23:45] So this is something that Paton said, the commander on the ground is always right.
[00:23:50] Meaning if you're sitting in an ivory tower somewhere, there's a guy on the ground. He's right and you're wrong.
[00:23:56] He's on the ground. He knows what's happening. Now, could we come up with some exceptions to this? Absolutely. You have better intelligence of what's happening. You maybe know some.
[00:24:07] You maybe have overhead coverage or you get you get air reports or you have in these days you have satellites looking at things. So yeah, there's situations where you might know a little bit more.
[00:24:17] But the default thought process should be the guy on the ground is has a better situation awareness than I do. I'm going to go with their call. And here's Hitler saying no.
[00:24:29] Now general policy who's the commander of all the all the German soldiers.
[00:24:35] General Paul is back to the book. General Paul is addressed himself directly to Hitler with a very serious and responsible evaluation of the situation in this momentous radio message.
[00:24:45] He had adamantly stressed that the fact that all his senior commanding generals shared the conviction that because it would be impossible to adequately supply the army in time. It would shortly be destroyed unless a concentration of all available forces were succeeded and
[00:24:59] to divide decisively beating the enemy attacking from the west in the south. So not just one general that saying this every but every user there's there's there's 250 300 thousand Germans there's a lot of senior military people all of them
[00:25:15] are saying we need to leave Hitler says no. Why does Hitler's just that like no you got you guys don't leave because we're Germans we fight to the death it's arrogance.
[00:25:29] It's absolutely partially arrogance that he thinks no will hold out. We're just going to support us. We'll just build this all out and I think he's being stubborn.
[00:25:43] He made a call kind of thing and then they're like hey this calls no good we're going to do this. He's going to be the call. He goes I mean we obviously Hitler hasn't probably want to dig his egos of any human being ever and he's in full effect.
[00:26:03] Even though he had left no doubt that in his view the decision promising salvation lane and immediate breakout in the end he too this talking about Paulus in the end he too submitted and obeyed
[00:26:16] for him in order wasn't order in spite of everything. All that remained to us was to hope for rescue operation from the outside. I will say this actually
[00:26:26] There's some books that parts of this book that I'm not going to cover because we just don't have time. There's that guy that gave that speech going to be getting he had also told Hitler.
[00:26:38] Hey, no worry we can resupply he was the before taking over all the German military forces he was in charge of the German air force the Luftwaffe.
[00:26:49] And he said look we can resupply these guys don't worry about it don't worry and I he probably said that at a time when it didn't look like they're going to get completely surrounded you know yeah we'll resupply don't worry about
[00:27:01] And we'll get into some of the numbers on what they said they could do but that's another reason why Hitler Hitler thought oh we can resupply he also had people on the ground he's surrounded by Yesman
[00:27:10] So no one wants to disagree with the boss man in this case eight all Hitler by saying so when he says look can't we resupply them yes yes we can resupply him from the air and also he was saying hey can't someone instead of them
[00:27:24] Breaking out and going toward back towards Germany why don't we have some German troops go towards them and break into them that way we can open up some supply lines so when he gets told when he when he offered that solution he got told yes we can do it
[00:27:38] Yes, we can do it so he surrounded by Yesman and you know how he ended up surrounded by Yesman he's ego
[00:27:44] I don't want I don't like to get told oh you're gonna tell me no you're fired yeah get someone in here that's gonna tell me that they can do what I'm saying and then that person's gonna get promoted and then you get surrounded by people that want to get promoted
[00:27:54] Check
[00:28:01] Proceeding on
[00:28:03] And there was one
[00:28:05] General that really made it made a significant effort here we go back to the book initially General Von Sidelitz was dumbfounded stunned
[00:28:17] He accepted the order but in his heart he rejected it particularly since he was painfully aware that his own were hands were tied
[00:28:25] Not until the following day 25 November 1942 did General Von Sidelitz react to Hitler's orders and his reaction was as much filled with a sense of responsibility as it was
[00:28:36] Temperamental addressed the army command it took the form of a detailed evaluation of the situation that core commander had had his chief of staff prepare
[00:28:47] It's surmised once again all the arguments against the solid army digging in and urged the breaking out of the ring immediately
[00:28:57] So what's cool about this book they actually have this actual document this guy wrote if you ever heard me talking to podcast about getting all your ducks in a row and like hey if my boss tells me no cool
[00:29:08] I'm gonna I'm gonna get all the information I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna make a bullet proof argument
[00:29:14] My boss is going to agree with because you can't my my arguments gonna be ball proof because I'm right and if I wasn't right then I wouldn't
[00:29:21] I wouldn't go this far right I'm not gonna I'm not gonna put my my reputation on the line
[00:29:28] Arguing something that I don't truly believe is right you know all from us. Okay. Well, you know what he could be right
[00:29:32] So you know what I'm gonna try and execute to my best of my ability in this case sidelets is like no
[00:29:38] It's not no and and he says okay, I'm gonna perform I'm gonna put together this thing they have the document inside this book
[00:29:44] I would read it, but it's long it's it's so detailed that it would take too much time
[00:29:48] But it lays out every little detail of why they need to break out and not an emotion
[00:29:53] That's what's beautiful about not an emotional way
[00:29:55] How maybe I just need to check myself because maybe more emotion was needed but
[00:30:00] Generally if you come across as really emotional hit the wood think all you well a boss would think oh
[00:30:04] You're just emotional about the ZECO use emotional buddy you just need to calm down
[00:30:09] Carry out the orders so he didn't he he played the role or he he used the strategy of just calm
[00:30:15] This is what's going on this one needs to change or this is what we need to do and if we don't it's gonna be catastrophic
[00:30:24] Back to the book in the emergency situation
[00:30:27] Intensified by the okay agent okay. She's
[00:30:30] Oberkommando day aator, so which is the supreme high command of the German army
[00:30:36] General von sidelitz demanded from the commander and chief of the army that he act immediately against orders and other words against Hitler
[00:30:43] So so sidelitz when sidelitz got told no he's like no listen
[00:30:46] We need to do it anyways
[00:30:47] That's how passionate so now he's starting to get a little bit emotional and passionate
[00:30:51] He declared it to be an imperative duty to the army and to the German people to
[00:30:55] obey the dictates of conscience and to seize the freedom of action that had been forbidden in order to prevent threatening
[00:31:03] catastrophe the memo was passed on by army command
[00:31:06] But had no effect whatsoever
[00:31:10] And so they had to suffer the additional pain that in the final analysis
[00:31:15] They could but give in and fulfill the bitter
[00:31:19] Soldiers do duty to obey against their own better insight now I will tell you that as Napoleon said if you execute a plan that you know is wrong
[00:31:29] You are culpable for executing it and these guys
[00:31:34] They would not stand up against Hitler
[00:31:39] Back to the book where you're all deeply disturbed and full of despair and in our hearts even outraged
[00:31:44] What was being demanded of us non-ly contradicted all military experience it went against every
[00:31:50] Soldierly feeling and robbed of us any hope of any hope of being able to save ourselves by breaking out under our own power
[00:31:59] In the last week of November when the formations that had been heavily damaged during the initial retreat were hastily and with
[00:32:06] Great difficulty establishing themselves on a new main line of resistance army issued a grave
[00:32:12] Order of the day I can still remember the exact wording. It started six army has been surrounded. This is not your fault
[00:32:22] As always you have fought bravely and tenetiously up to the moment the enemy had you by the neck
[00:32:29] It went on to point out that the hard fighting suffering and deprivations
[00:32:33] That would still be demanded of the troops and which they would have to endure for a time in hunger and frost
[00:32:39] Trusting in the help from outside that had been so definitely promised so Hitler did say how I'm gonna send help from the outside. Don't worry about it. You stay put
[00:32:47] Finally mentioned was made of the relief operation to which Hitler had personally committed himself
[00:32:53] Psychologically clever and calculating the appeal ended with the encouraging words promising
[00:32:58] Consolation and salvation hold on the fear will get you out
[00:33:03] This final sentence appealing so strongly to emotion which injected a new tone into the previously factual and sober language of military orders
[00:33:13] gave rise to discussions among our staff
[00:33:16] It made me realize on top of all that it already happened how great the sacrifice was going to be that would be demanded of the troops
[00:33:30] By the way
[00:33:32] These guys traveled there and
[00:33:35] Had a really hard time of it
[00:33:37] They know how hard it was for them to get there and now they're being told that the people that are gonna
[00:33:44] The way that they're gonna get saved is by someone else coming behind them to help them going through the same
[00:33:51] hardships that they barely got there so
[00:33:55] They're they're
[00:33:57] Outlook isn't good. Yeah, it's a jellish yeah, they're doubtful
[00:34:00] Back to the book a large number of the soldiers who had been in constant exhaustion
[00:34:05] Exhausting action in the front line for two years without leave without having been home to see their loved ones
[00:34:13] So a lot of these guys, so they had actually survived a winter early on
[00:34:17] They had survived a winter as they pushed into German as they put it to push to Russia and now they're waiting for another one
[00:34:24] But these soldiers have been fighting for two straight years hard fighting
[00:34:28] Back to the book naturally the troops were not in a position to appreciate the full extent of the suffering and deprivation
[00:34:34] They were about to face they knew nothing of the difficult problems of the overall supply situation
[00:34:40] So again, this guy is working at the headquarters, meaning he's you know with the commanders and the leadership
[00:34:46] So he's tracking all the logistics of the situation the front line soldier doesn't know the front line soldier expects how you they're gonna bring me bullets
[00:34:52] They're gonna bring me food
[00:34:53] He realizes because he sees what's actually happening that that's gonna be a real problem
[00:35:00] They had no inkling of the countless worries that lay so heavily and depressantly on the higher staffs
[00:35:06] Nor at first where they aware that that at one stroke the encirclement had made it impossible to complete
[00:35:14] Preparations for winter positions out there in the supply depose of the army lay tens of thousands of fur coats
[00:35:21] Warm stockings protective head gear and other items of winter clothing which could now no longer reach the encircled forces
[00:35:30] For the most part the men remained completely in adequately supplied with winter gear and exposed to the murderous frost
[00:35:38] So the thousands and thousands of warm weather gear
[00:35:43] Or I should say cold weather gear and now they're gonna get nothing
[00:35:46] They're cut off back the book we calculated that our own army whose total strength before the encirclement had been about
[00:35:54] 330,000 men now numbered about
[00:35:57] 280,000 so they're already short 50,000 killed
[00:36:03] We the staff the officers in the staff departments also pinned our hopes on the relief operation
[00:36:08] Which was being prepared no one even considered that Hitler would be ready to abandon the outstandingly proven
[00:36:14] Sixth Army on the Vulcan throw it to the wolves so these guys are even I said that even though I said they weren't hopeful
[00:36:19] They're also thinking there's no way that Hitler is gonna leave
[00:36:24] 300,000 soldiers out here. There's no way
[00:36:29] Back to the book he was bound to find ways and means to rectify the devilist situation
[00:36:34] They're even starry eyed dreamers not however among the older and more experienced who maintain that the fur would not only get us out
[00:36:40] But it probably already conceived a plan to turn our apparent defeat into a glorious triumph by encircling all the enemies armies that are surrounding us
[00:36:51] None of these dreamers and believers and miracles who kept their who kept servicing here and there until the very end had a clear idea of what was implied
[00:36:58] By the fact that German soldiers were simultaneously fighting on the north Cape and the bay of disgue in the front of Leningrad and viewers
[00:37:06] on in the caucus in Crete and in North Africa
[00:37:11] So again, disguise fighting fronts all over the place and
[00:37:17] The and the staff officers the leadership knew how thinly spread the German army was the front line troops in you know
[00:37:25] They didn't make sense of that
[00:37:28] During the weeks of December the fighting strength the army was deteriorating at a horrendous pace
[00:37:33] The blame for this lay mainly in the in the inadequate air lift
[00:37:39] Here a catastrophic picture was slowly emerging in order to be able to maintain its ability to live and fight our army had initially
[00:37:47] requested
[00:37:48] 750 tons of supplies per day
[00:37:53] Later reducing this to 500 tons per day
[00:37:57] the J.U. 52 cargo aircraft had about a two ton load the
[00:38:02] Want the HE111 fighter bomber had held about 1.5 tons
[00:38:10] So this is gonna require like
[00:38:14] 2000 aircraft to be able to make this happen
[00:38:18] What are they end up with back the book they only brought in 80 to 120 tons of the required supplies in other words
[00:38:26] Not more than one fifth of the amount needed
[00:38:29] Purely and simply this meant a daily deficit of 10,000 kilograms of bread and a fatal
[00:38:36] Under supply of desperately needed fuel and ammunition
[00:38:41] So you're gonna one fifth of what they need now
[00:38:44] We have to be careful because that's a little statistic that we're thrown out there
[00:38:48] Right like oh we're getting one fifth of what we need
[00:38:50] But I'll think of a human being in what you need as a human being just food and you cut that down to one fifth of what you need
[00:38:57] You know you need 2,500 calories a day you're gonna get 500
[00:39:03] That's what we're talking about yeah, you need and by the way you're fighting and you're gonna you're being attacked so you need
[00:39:12] 1000 bullets a day
[00:39:14] Right you need a thousand bullets a day you're getting 120 bullets
[00:39:18] It's it's their things are not looking good
[00:39:22] But
[00:39:26] Back to the book the sunset soon after lunch and by 1,400 to 1,500 hours
[00:39:32] It was already dark so this is now we're talking Russian winter by 2 or 3 o'clock in the afternoon. It's dark
[00:39:40] And every day this two reminded us to supp depressing the here in the desolation of the snow brump
[00:39:46] Snowbound step of the enormous distance that separated us from home
[00:39:50] Where we not all the living and the dead long buried in a gigantic mass grave
[00:39:59] Faults like this occasionally befell me when I return from various sectors of the front
[00:40:04] Where in my role as liaison officer I had been sent on specific assignments to gather urgently needed information
[00:40:12] There on the heights above the the infamous Rochaka Valley
[00:40:16] The men of our divisions lay in desperate battle demanding bloody sacrifice there in the trenches and foxholes and the snow the soldiers were dying of exhaustion and cold
[00:40:29] Because they're steadily shrinking rations of bread and other food issued
[00:40:33] Food issued were no longer sufficient to provide the physical stamina needed to combat frost and sickness
[00:40:40] So they're starving to death. They're starving death in the freezing death and they're they're being attacked and killed by the Russians with no ammo with no ammo
[00:40:52] One day in the second week of December
[00:40:55] The staff's first heard the news that the army group Don under field marshal van mainstein von Mainstein had begun the long hope
[00:41:04] Relief for the long hope for relief operation
[00:41:07] Soon the good news that also reached the troops the words gave new impetus everywhere
[00:41:13] Particularly on the hard pressed western perimeter of the pocket spread like lightning mains that manstein is coming
[00:41:20] The already dying hopes burst further new new courage
[00:41:25] Happy expectations a new spirit of initiative began to blossom the sufferings and sacrifices to date had not been in vain after all
[00:41:32] Salvation was now back ining what the fear had promised he was bound to deliver
[00:41:38] So they get word bandstimes coming
[00:41:42] This is this this is good if everything went well they thought the hour of all relief could just coincide with Christmas
[00:41:54] The motorized groups and strong tank units being led by Colonel General Hoff
[00:41:59] Elements of which had been brought in from France and great haste had begun their relief offensive
[00:42:05] Hoff spearhead tanks were only 50 kilometers away
[00:42:09] Hold on we're coming
[00:42:11] Said one of the encouraging radio messages which spread like wire fire amongst the western edge of the pocket so they're in radio communication 50 kilometers and
[00:42:21] And this well respected
[00:42:24] Leader Hoff he's on the way any time hold on we're coming
[00:42:31] Do you ever that isn't that like a jinx right there?
[00:42:34] You know what I mean like do you ever celebrate something you've been inside your head you celebrate something a little bit before you should
[00:42:41] Don't ever do that am I super stitious cuz I believe that way if you think that that's how it truly works
[00:42:48] But I think I think it's super stitious
[00:42:52] But I also think there's some psychology behind yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:42:56] Yeah, we're especially if you realize if you just realize oh, I just celebrated early right there
[00:43:00] So it's gonna make you uneasy there's something like a I feel like that guy
[00:43:05] That guy got a certain level of satisfaction just by saying like don't worry
[00:43:09] We're coming like he had this moment of glory. That's glorious. They'd be able to say yeah, don't worry. We're coming. Yeah, it's a glorious thing to be able to say
[00:43:19] any
[00:43:20] took that
[00:43:21] He took the easy money right there
[00:43:24] Psychologically instead of being like hey, we're not there yet when you'd be ready
[00:43:27] Right, right, I don't know if you know what we're talking about where we are yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[00:43:31] Finished strong right kind of thing. It's like the guy who's running the touchdown right
[00:43:35] He's right you celebrate it's the 30 yard line right the 25 we put the hand out. Who was that?
[00:43:40] There's like a classic
[00:43:41] And the guy creeps up behind them. Hey, you know what this guy was name Leon
[00:43:45] Let he played for the I want to say Dallas Cowboys he was like a
[00:43:52] Like a deep around the way of year I want to say 90s me
[00:43:56] How many other Dallas Cowboys players can you remember the name up from the 90s?
[00:44:01] Can you remember a lot of them? Like a handful just let the quarter Leo
[00:44:05] Remember him he's he's infamous. It's like for this I mean for a guy, you know, he's a defensive like line man or something
[00:44:12] Recoveres a firm will runs it in for the touchdown and he's he's doing he's not even doing putting the above his head
[00:44:18] He's putting it on the side kind of like celebrating
[00:44:21] It's home and I think they stripped them and recovered it. I think if I'm not mistaken
[00:44:26] Yeah, I was psychologically you can't stop you got a finished strong easy money. You got to finish sprint through the finish
[00:44:32] Like or that like races like a hundred meter dash, you know the guys like or the 200 meter
[00:44:36] And he's like yeah, I want it. I know the real hungry guy gets it
[00:44:40] You know right there. So that's half half takes the easy money. Tang can be doing it off
[00:44:45] Back to the book in the sure knowledge that before us was the last chance for our salvation
[00:44:50] We feverously awaited the decisive hour with a feeling of confidence
[00:44:54] The orders we expected could not be delayed much longer
[00:44:59] But all too soon our hopes would be bitterly disappointed
[00:45:02] Alarming messages began to came in rapidly attacking Russian tank forces were embroiling the relieving army and heavy fighting
[00:45:10] We're slowing the advance and finally leading in connection with the Russian offensive group operations west of the dawn to a serious crisis for the entire army group
[00:45:22] One of the attacks hit Colonel General Hoff who is hastening towards us in
[00:45:28] fearful tension and delay mounting an agitation
[00:45:31] We read the messages we were receiving from the far distant German air reconnaissance and radio surveillance units
[00:45:37] Soon these brought news of disaster
[00:45:41] The relief operation had began to run down Hoffs forces in turn threatened with being surrounded were finally forced to retreat
[00:45:51] The front fell back hundreds of kilometers and the encircled Stalin-Grad army on the Volga was left to its fate
[00:45:58] Only much later was I to learn of tragic details of the events and circumstances that had sealed the fate of the encircled army at this point
[00:46:08] I did not know then that Hitler was still in no way prepared to give up Stalin-Grad in the Volga
[00:46:15] that for the second time and
[00:46:17] After the dramatic conflicts and the conflicts that he's talking about is between him between Hitler and the people of the his advisors
[00:46:23] He had explicitly forbidden the breakout of the six army against the will of his chief of staff and an opposition to the demands of the army group done
[00:46:37] So Hitler leaves them abends them
[00:46:43] Back to the book among the circle of our closer comrades
[00:46:46] We no longer entertained any illusions about the bleakness of our situation the German front had with drawn a great distance away
[00:46:53] And for the time being there would be no new thought a new thought of a new relief operation
[00:47:01] Would the German front be able to hold out for several more weeks?
[00:47:06] It was hardly to be expected
[00:47:09] hunger
[00:47:10] Frost and sickness were cutting terribly into its waning strength and
[00:47:15] Death was reaping an an uncanny harvest and not only on the fire spewing iron ring around the pocket
[00:47:23] And even the conditions for a great saving breakout operation scarcely existed any longer
[00:47:29] In such an event the army would only be able to remain a mobile for a few kilometers because of the lack of fuel
[00:47:35] And if Stalin gruddled were to be given up what then would happen to the growing army of wounded sick and exhausted men?
[00:47:45] Did the okay age
[00:47:47] Intent to give up the vulga at all?
[00:47:50] The measures ordered so far seemed to point the opposite way once again
[00:47:55] I was often forced to recall Hitler's fanatical war words about the German soldier on the vulga about Stalin grudd and each time
[00:48:04] An icy unease crept through my bones
[00:48:08] Maybe yes, maybe we were supposed to hold on to the bitter end to stay put and fight to the last bullet
[00:48:17] On the dark horizon the outlines of a terrible disaster began to emerge
[00:48:26] Christmas Eve approached
[00:48:28] All the visible and invisible wounds which the cruel events had caused burned even more painfully on this night
[00:48:35] The atmosphere was depressed memories of former Christmas celebrations with their blissful shimmer only dimly illuminated our harsh reality as from a world-born gone
[00:48:46] The well-loved Christmas carols sounded in low melancholy sadness so
[00:48:59] Hope is pretty much vanquished at this point not completely because he's still in May
[00:49:04] He's still saying maybe maybe they're just gonna leave us here and fight to the last man which is a crazy thought because I'm gonna say this number again
[00:49:11] 250 to 300,000 soldiers
[00:49:14] Hmm, this isn't like hey you've got 18 guys fight to last man. It's the Alamo, right?
[00:49:20] This isn't that
[00:49:22] This is because that
[00:49:24] That might have you know that that's not gonna have a strategic impact on the situation you lose 300,000
[00:49:33] Combat veterans which which you know hard combat hardened veterans this is gonna have a strategic implication
[00:49:39] I mean of course every soldier
[00:49:42] That dies is is a
[00:49:46] Epic event in that soldier's life obviously and their family and everything else
[00:49:53] But when you start talking about leaving
[00:49:57] 300,000 people to die for nothing
[00:50:01] It's he still can't quite get that he's still not quite there. He sees it on the horizon. He's not quite there though
[00:50:07] Back to the book the new year had arrived
[00:50:13] Jangling frost lay over Stalin brought over the Stalin-Drog pocket and breathe its icy deadly breath
[00:50:19] The sharp wind blew through the joints of doors and windows and in the bunkers and from the floors the cold crept up to one's knees
[00:50:28] The daily casualty reports from our divisions that increasingly reported losses other than by enemy action
[00:50:34] Represented a shattering balance on the death sheet
[00:50:38] So what he's saying there is like yeah people are dying from combat, but even more people are dying just from cold and starvation
[00:50:45] Again the Russians furiously attacked
[00:50:48] Several sectors of our perimeter what did we have left to oppose these powerful Russian elite troops
[00:50:54] Who were protected from the frost and had a full stomach not to mention their numerous tanks guns rocket launchers and mortars
[00:51:00] Only small numbers of heavy weapons with insufficient strictly rationed ammunition
[00:51:06] It's all we had
[00:51:08] Only a machiated men
[00:51:11] Exhausted by hunger among whom the fighting the cold and spreading diseases were taking of daily frightening toll
[00:51:21] How much longer could the perimeter withstand the pressure?
[00:51:24] It did not escape our attention that the Russians appeared to be concentrating in front of our sector and preparation for a major blow
[00:51:31] The last saw sad possibility grew even clearer on the dark horizon the fate of our destruction by a shattering offensive
[00:51:40] breaking over our heads
[00:51:46] So again, it's interesting that this guy's well two things I should point out number one
[00:51:50] It's interesting that this guy's perspective because he's in the staff and so he sees more of what's happening from the general officers
[00:51:57] But let's also make note that he's not in the front lines and he's so he has it relatively good
[00:52:04] meaning
[00:52:05] these protected by the by the rush from the Russians by some distance. I mean he's still getting more to
[00:52:11] etc. So getting artillery
[00:52:13] But he's not he's not I with the Russians like the guys like the soldiers on the front lines that are sitting in a little slit trench in the ground
[00:52:20] in the tundra
[00:52:22] One of the things that he sees is a meeting here. We go back to the book an important meeting of the general staff took place at our core
[00:52:28] Which the commander in chief of the army general Paul is attended with his chief of staff the serious reserved
[00:52:34] Expression of the tall figure with the head of a scientist reflected something of a burden of responsibility that press down
[00:52:41] Tormentingly on the shoulders of this man
[00:52:43] Who is the last time I was to see our army commander in the pocket as far as I can remember he never visited our core again
[00:52:53] I soon learned of the outcome of the meeting and the grave words of our general staff officers left no doubt about the consequences of the orders that had been issued in the meantime
[00:53:03] They dealt with the mobilization of the last reserves of the sixth army the encircled forces would a hold on and fight to the last
[00:53:14] For this purpose the formation of fortress battalions was to be prepared and executed as quickly as possible
[00:53:18] All remaining reserves of able-bodied men were to be collected and used as infantry members of the Luftwaffe ground personnel and anti-aircraft
[00:53:27] Troops gunners who no longer had guns, pans or grenadiers, engineers, truck drivers, clerical staffs, re-election law and supply personnel or once again to be ruthlessly combed out
[00:53:39] The order amounted to the virtual dissolution of the re-election law services and clearly demonstrated that the
[00:53:45] Emovalized army was doomed to stay put and fight to the last man and the last bullet
[00:53:52] So there you go
[00:53:54] Everyone's gonna fight cooks supply people you're all gonna be coming for treatment now
[00:54:00] And this clearly indicates to a to a weater that that means they're not going anywhere and they're gonna stay there and they're gonna fight the last man
[00:54:10] Back to the book we felt that we had already been written off by the higher-ups
[00:54:14] And all that remained for us was to perform a heroic a futile gesture to ensure the fulfillment of a the historic mission
[00:54:21] And he's got quotes around that of the army of stalling rat on the vulga
[00:54:26] The troops were again given the cheering radio message which the fewer and supreme war lord had sent at the turn of the year
[00:54:34] Six army has my promise that everything is being done to get it out
[00:54:39] But we now view this not just without
[00:54:43] But as downright deception
[00:54:46] So I don't believe it, learn anymore
[00:54:48] They used to just doubt him now now they think he's deceiving him and again this is not there's no small group people
[00:54:58] Back to the book the bread ration was reduced to 50 grams per day
[00:55:04] ringing cold knowing hunger creeping illness enemy fire
[00:55:08] combined
[00:55:09] in an indesoluble offensive pact
[00:55:12] Disentery and typhoid fever had appeared as uncanny guests and the plague of life increased from day to day
[00:55:21] Death danced as murder as a wrong no back and forth throughout the pocket his head quarters were the numerous places of suffering
[00:55:28] Disparer the dressing stations and field hospitals that filled to overflowing alarmingly
[00:55:33] But he also felt at home on the lines day and night so death is everywhere
[00:55:38] And isn't weird you know you think like just being sick you would tell me you were sick a couple days ago
[00:55:44] common cool but yeah, and you think about
[00:55:47] What being sick does to you and now this is your being sick and it doesn't matter like there's no mercy
[00:55:54] Yeah, you're there's no mercy
[00:55:57] Back to the back during back the book during 50 days that pocket battle lasted so far
[00:56:02] He and he's talking about death he had already cleaned out horribly among the men of the army
[00:56:08] About one third of its manpower was gone
[00:56:11] Of the more than 300,000 men who were present at the time of the Russian breakthrough about 200,000 were probably still alive
[00:56:18] And how many of these enduring and hoping fighting and suffering human beings had death not already marked on his own?
[00:56:33] News that we could no longer count on any relief before spring was really shattering
[00:56:38] There was nothing more to be done saved a hang on and endure the horror
[00:56:43] Now we get a little opportunity here
[00:56:51] Here we go there was a surrender proposal sent to our encircled army by the Soviet Supreme Command
[00:56:58] The document was addressed to Paulus who had been promoted to Colonel General and to all the officers and men of the German forces fighting its dollar and Rod
[00:57:06] It was signed by
[00:57:08] Colonel General of the artillery
[00:57:10] We've worn Varonov and by the commander and chief of the forces of the Don front
[00:57:18] Lieutenant General Rokus Vinsky
[00:57:22] Who had now obviously been put in so charge of all the forces surrounding us
[00:57:28] The proposal began with a short factual and largely correct evaluation of our situation
[00:57:34] In particular it stressed the catastrophic state of supply of our troops who were suffering from hunger
[00:57:39] Cold and sickness lack of winter clothing and terribly insanity conditions
[00:57:45] Realistic possibilities of breaking the encircling ring no longer existed
[00:57:50] Any further resistance and such a hopeless situation had to be senseless
[00:57:54] Therefore in order to avoid further unnecessary shedding of blood the red army was proposing a number of terms
[00:58:02] The document ended with a reference directed to the commander and chief of Stalin-Grad army
[00:58:07] Pointing out that in the event of refusal the forces of the red army and air force would be obliged to destroy the pocket for which he
[00:58:15] Colonel General Paulus would bear the responsibility
[00:58:21] There's still got 200,000 people and
[00:58:26] You get an offer you get 24 hours to
[00:58:31] Respond
[00:58:33] Basically surrender everybody
[00:58:35] Yeah, everybody's gonna surrender yeah and and
[00:58:39] They weren't sure how they were gonna get treated. I mean they were fairly confident wasn't be treated good
[00:58:46] I don't know though man it's all the disinterior
[00:58:49] That's not treated very good either. That's not treating you very good at all
[00:58:55] Back to the book we soon received various orders directives and messages whose burden was that the surrender
[00:59:02] Was out of the question
[00:59:04] The commander and chief had passed the Russian ultimatum onto the fear of headquarters and asked for freedom of action for all of
[00:59:10] Enjualities in immediate reply hit the red personally for bidon surrender
[00:59:16] And Paulus had rejected in writing the proposal the
[00:59:20] Soviet command
[00:59:22] The troops were not informed
[00:59:24] Not to be informed in detail, but from now on they were ordered to fire without warning on flags of truth
[00:59:31] Of truth appearing near the front lines this instruction from army
[00:59:36] Which we received by radio was especially revealing as to the intentions of leadership
[00:59:42] In our staff it was received with rejection and objection because it was a clear breach of international law
[00:59:47] So they don't get told like hey we're not surrounding what they get told is
[00:59:51] If you see anyone with flags of truth shoot them immediately which is basically saying we're not surrendering
[00:59:57] Back to the book I was reminded again of Hitler's high-sounding words about the invincibility of the German soldier for whom nothing must be seen to be impossible
[01:00:06] The very thought of capitulation must be an irreconcilable must be irreconcilable with the prestige of the supreme warlord
[01:00:14] He puts that in quotes every time I don't call it out every time but he does
[01:00:19] He's sort of mocking Hitler with that in his speech and Munich shortly before our encirclement he had
[01:00:25] Had he not solemnly sworn you may rest assured I repeat this with full responsibility before God and history that we shall never again leave
[01:00:35] Stalin-Grad never again
[01:00:38] For life or death we were committed to the cheerless don step
[01:00:43] Here our fate must come falter
[01:00:47] The most terrible weeks were still before us and during those icy days in January the fearful
[01:00:52] Premonition of what was to come descended upon us like a lead weight
[01:00:57] On the morning of 10 January 1943 exactly 24 hours after the ultimatum had expired
[01:01:04] The Russian began the destruction of the pocket with the hellish artillery barrage
[01:01:11] It was the answer to the rejection of the surrender proposal up up front among the staff
[01:01:17] On the line I again entered the atmosphere of tension excitement nervousness and despair the situation was partially unclear and confused the
[01:01:25] Caterphe the catastrophe did indeed appear to be unavoidable
[01:01:31] Into this helpless situation orders from army came in time and time again defend hold clear up the situation fight to the last bullet
[01:01:40] From their desks 2000 kilometers away and he puts in parentheses and exclamation point
[01:01:49] the okay age
[01:01:52] Together with the constantly interfering fear her fear or headquarters for bade any independent withdrawal from endangered from endangered sectors of the perimeter
[01:02:02] And army which had to meticulously justify itself for any change in the front line caused by the pressure of circumstances obeyed
[01:02:13] So this classic it's micro management not decentralized command. They're even saying look if you're if your perimeter is gonna collapse don't fall back just die
[01:02:21] Which is ridiculous because it doesn't help the situation because now there's a hole and now more more enemy are gonna come through the hole and we're gonna have people behind us
[01:02:32] It's like full on kind of what you're talking about last week maybe before last week
[01:02:37] It's like do it because I said so kind of think like this no really he is gonna die. There's no reason to do it no strategic reason
[01:02:42] No tactical reason obviously
[01:02:44] Let's do it because I said so die whatever. Yeah, the army core
[01:02:52] Divisions and regiments obeyed often with bitter criticism with open or hidden reservations flaring up or knuckling under
[01:03:00] but they obeyed
[01:03:03] And the suffering and dying of troops in the trenches and foxholes in the icy step-o-bade
[01:03:09] Giving their all in the natural fulfillment of their duty or an apathy and silent despair
[01:03:18] The higher leadership did not stand with recognition
[01:03:22] Promotions decorations and metals rain down on mass on the fighting suffering doomed men
[01:03:29] But what purpose did this huge monstrous commitment and dedication of human being serve
[01:03:35] in the face of the increasingly health military helplessness and the daily worsening human
[01:03:43] Plight I was becoming more and more depressed by the torturing question of the why of this sacrifice of most precious blood this
[01:03:51] Pitalist dying
[01:03:54] Was it not only for the sake of of a prestige that a military supreme command
[01:03:59] Thousands of kilometers removed mercilessly wish to maintain then for whom the price in many thousands of human lives did not appear to be too high
[01:04:12] This question haunted me and would not leave me until the final sorrowful ending
[01:04:21] So he's asking why
[01:04:23] They start to collapse from the perimeter of the pocket in towards the city of Stalingrad
[01:04:33] Because they were kind of pushed out around it surrounding it and now they're starting to fall back to it
[01:04:38] Where they at least have some coverage back to the book the withdrawal of the troops finally turned into a full-fledged flight into which further
[01:04:45] Formations and combat groups of various divisions were drawn
[01:04:49] Whole units cease to exist in this confusion in the sector of our neighbor to our left this fate also put an end to a whole division
[01:05:02] That had long been under our command and in the end had burned out like a slag heap
[01:05:07] I saw its distraught general now a commander without troops wandering around in a bunker desperately seeking a new assignment
[01:05:21] So he just lost 20,000 men he's walking around saying one of my supposed to do now
[01:05:27] Back to the book and this desperate withdrawal was being carried out in icy cold weather and
[01:05:34] Piddlest snowstorms at 30 degrees sent to grade below zero
[01:05:39] That's negative 22
[01:05:46] At 30 degrees below zero the remnant of the regiments that had shrunk to combat groups and the suffering
[01:05:53] Hards of their shadow of other shattered units moved over the empty white steps staggering crowds
[01:05:59] Dragging stracking crowds of lost lightly wounded and frostbitten soldiers with them
[01:06:06] How many of those that so far had been spared enemy fire succumbed there to exhaustion and over exertion to the strains of hunger and to the cold
[01:06:16] Inumerable men fell by the wayside and were soon mercifully covered over by the snow
[01:06:23] And this was no longer an authorized withdrawal
[01:06:28] The recoil of the front was now taking place despite standing orders to hold and maintain position at all costs and
[01:06:36] Despite the line of resistance laid down by the okay age
[01:06:40] So they finally did break and they finally said you know what
[01:06:45] Survival this is about survival and we're not staying here anymore. We're gonna try and get back
[01:06:51] Fall back
[01:06:53] The psychological ability of the troops to resist had now also been eroded
[01:06:58] There could no longer be any doubt about our fate
[01:07:04] After the enemy had begun as decisive attack bent on destruction and our
[01:07:08] Disillusion was in full progress. It was too late for a last departure attempt to break out to the west
[01:07:16] Help from outside could no longer be considered more devastating even than the enemies weapons
[01:07:21] Where hunger exhaustion cold and illness of all kinds among the soldiers who had not been adequately fed for so many long weeks
[01:07:30] With the advent of the incredible indescribable strains of daily retreats the situation had deteriorated
[01:07:37] catastrophically
[01:07:38] We were lacking in food weapons rest warmth
[01:07:43] hope
[01:07:44] In short, we were lacking in all the vital conditions for fighting
[01:07:48] Since the long rejection of the surrender proposal the troops had again survived a long terrible week of
[01:07:55] Tenacious defensive fighting retreat and flight there by tying down superior enemy forces in their area
[01:08:03] Now after the loss of our life support base
[01:08:06] Petomnik airfield on January 16th the time really seemed to have come to stop fighting
[01:08:13] The airlift temporarily ceased altogether
[01:08:15] No more food and ammunition came in the wounded in sick could no longer be flown out and so
[01:08:23] That's where they're getting their supplies into
[01:08:26] Petomnik airfield and that's actually where this guy was for a large chunk of this battle
[01:08:31] It's now gone so now they even you know before they were only getting one fifth of what they needed
[01:08:36] Well now they're getting zero
[01:08:38] By now every day that the fighting was prolonged was costing thousands of human lives
[01:08:45] There was no more time to be lost and we waited for something to happen like me in
[01:08:50] Newmirable comrades and brothers in fate probably clung to the same secret hope but nothing happened
[01:08:57] And tragedy took its course
[01:09:02] The Russians by using their storm troops during the initial days of the offensive it would probably have been very easy for them
[01:09:08] To make a further effort and liquidate the pocket relatively quickly
[01:09:13] But they no longer needed to make such a highly costly attempt time was on their side
[01:09:19] By bearing down on our tenacious defense with a crushing attack our enemy had won its penetration into the pocket
[01:09:26] Now he was no longer in a hurry and no longer appeared to consider his victim to be very dangerous
[01:09:32] The battle that had begun in the meantime was merely a question of finishing off a wounded game already marked
[01:09:37] For death
[01:09:39] For some time already the Russians had dictated the course of events
[01:09:45] The date of our final end depended on their will alone
[01:09:53] The stations of the cross of an army of 200,000 soldiers particularly because of the slow helpless death of such a vast number of human beings
[01:10:02] Made anything seen before with the exception of verb done pale by comparison
[01:10:09] A part of the entire German nation was sentenced to death here and by this its vital substance was dangerously under attack
[01:10:19] The moral effect of these events touched the whole nation
[01:10:24] In the midst of the general destruction of the army there were thousands of individual tragedies
[01:10:30] whose localities of horror were the numerous collection points for the sick and wounded
[01:10:38] whole convoys of mostly open trucks overloaded with their pitiful freight of freezing wounded groaning sick and dying move deeper into the pocket
[01:10:50] From the second half of January until the bitter end
[01:10:53] The harsh suffering of the fighting soldiers continued by day and night
[01:11:01] After eight evil weeks of indescribable torture and deprivations
[01:11:05] They were now plunged into a veritable hell of hopelessness and destruction
[01:11:10] Time and again it was fight resist hold to the end then disengage with draw turn back and dig in again for defense in the snow and stonally
[01:11:19] Harg frozen earth time and again there were heavy losses panic and flight and then never ending use the struggle
[01:11:27] Struggle against hunger and cold
[01:11:30] Among the staffs there was an unending tension
[01:11:33] Proplexity and despair and feverish activity leadership was still to be seen
[01:11:39] From the higher-head commands came continual orders
[01:11:43] Directives questions add munitions threats
[01:11:46] Criticism opposition and misgivings were not lacking at the lower levels, but for the time being the mechanisms of command still function
[01:11:53] So despite all this and even though they're having this this
[01:11:57] Hastie would draw that's going against orders. There still are
[01:12:02] Direction coming out. There's till people being disciplined
[01:12:08] In the midst of the general suffering and dying we helplessly watch the catastrophe and of destruction approaching us
[01:12:14] mercilessly and inexorably
[01:12:17] The terrible human tragedy that was nearing its climax was finally commented commented upon by the war
[01:12:23] News broadcasted home in the pretty and spirited words
[01:12:28] Equate in stonel and grad
[01:12:30] Sixth Army is attaching immortal honor to its banners by its heroic and self-sacrificing battle against crushing odds
[01:12:45] Many of my comrades had mentally written themselves off intentions to commit suicide were voiced with increasing frequency
[01:12:52] Others had given their valuables and wedding rings to be to the wounded being flown out I
[01:13:00] Myself had been had so far been at pain to prepare my relatives for the catastrophe by means of sparse hints
[01:13:08] Now I felt the need to send home open word of farewell and gratitude
[01:13:13] The letter was hard to write in my ears once more rang rang the last goodbye my wife and
[01:13:22] Employingly and besiegingly called down the telephone line to Kiev on a spring evening of last year before the seemingly
[01:13:30] Endless space of Russian planes had swallowed me up
[01:13:36] Now all would soon be over
[01:13:38] When I sealed the letter I was gripped by a specially deep despair
[01:13:45] I felt as though I were suddenly looking into an abyss of suffering and hopelessness towards which our whole nation was
[01:13:52] Reeling as if the events in stalin grad were a preview of an
[01:13:56] Immeasurable disaster that was to break upon Germany
[01:13:59] The general of this division division had a nervous breakdown and was no longer fit for command
[01:14:09] His hopes of being flown out with the badly wounded and second not been fulfilled
[01:14:14] He now had to share the fate of his soldiers to the bitter end
[01:14:18] This general who a short time before was a commander of a division had carried the responsibility from many thousands of men
[01:14:25] Was once more a mere human being trembling for his life
[01:14:31] Then did his questions not reveal the same fear that secretly tormented all of us
[01:14:38] We made one another realize that the impending military
[01:14:43] Cretastrophe was also a political catastrophe the result of presumptuous beliefs and actions that had long
[01:14:51] Shaken the healthy foundations of our intellectual cultural and national life
[01:14:59] Had the power that we served as citizens and soldiers bent its knee before the law that was rooted in the code of ethics
[01:15:08] Or rather had not a new gospel of violence been proclaimed and introduced that in a fatal reversal of all values had ceased to differentiate
[01:15:19] Between right and wrong
[01:15:25] So these guys are realizing what's coming around what's coming around?
[01:15:30] He's realizing that the path that they went down as a country was wrong
[01:15:38] Back to the book by means of destructive battle against the universal educational and cultural powers of
[01:15:46] Classic antiquity humanism and Christianity and anti intellectual political religion of power
[01:15:55] Had successfully extracted the German people from the best of the commonly held European body of human thought and
[01:16:02] thereby also out of any commitment to the objective concepts of truth
[01:16:08] Compassion and justice
[01:16:11] Is that is that his conclusion like
[01:16:14] During this events or yes during these events he's realizing what what's happening?
[01:16:22] Is that they were wrong
[01:16:26] And they went I mean the thing that's crazy about
[01:16:29] Nazi Germany is how fast that transition took place like the talking 10 years
[01:16:35] What the rise of the Nazis rise the Nazis or they're they're they're
[01:16:39] Yeah, the rise of the Nazis straight up
[01:16:41] 1933 they started now 1943 so or 10 years and you have a completely different viewpoint of the world
[01:16:51] That's okay, I mean and it's not they're going against
[01:16:54] They see what like they're going against the traditional values
[01:16:57] They're going against hey, you know they're going against the Christian values
[01:17:00] They're going against the cultural values they're going against the national values
[01:17:04] They're going against them. Yeah, it's I wonder how much of it is that you know like the soldiers and that even the people in the Nazi party
[01:17:13] I wonder how much of it is like denial, you know, you know where it's you know how like you're signed on to like some leader during the during the time being yeah
[01:17:20] Yeah, or you saying right now how much of this denial no no no no
[01:17:23] During during the last you know, it's like remember rap and egg egg
[01:17:26] You remember that there was one of the nicest guys one of the guys who made the biggest sacrifice was a was a straight-up actual Nazi
[01:17:32] And you made massive sacrifice until queued risk to save as many people as he could by the way not white people not
[01:17:38] Ariens, but but Chinese
[01:17:40] So so there's a guy that
[01:17:42] You know was more related to the traditional
[01:17:47] Christian intellectual
[01:17:51] Values right and yet okay the people that are in charge of the country is Nazi so I guess that makes me an Nazi
[01:17:57] Yeah, and here we go and so and these guys war situation because their soldiers
[01:18:02] So now they're fighting for that evil force
[01:18:05] And like you said there's some denial you also get caught up and clearly the Germans got caught up in the nationalism
[01:18:12] They got caught up hitler was a great orator and a very moving speaker and they got caught up in that and they were in a very depressed economy
[01:18:19] So those things all kind of came to it they'd been in their mind screwed over in World War one and
[01:18:24] You know defeated and then treated badly and you know there's this whole thing about Hitler's mustache
[01:18:31] You know Hitler's got the funny mustache and
[01:18:34] There's some debate on on how much of this is
[01:18:38] Actually true, but whether it's true or not as a little bit it doesn't really matter
[01:18:43] Because what it represents so the deal was that Hitler's mustache if you wanted to have a mustache during World War one
[01:18:49] Because of wearing a gas mask you had to cut your mustache like that
[01:18:52] Mm-hmm Hitler still wore his mustache like that it was like a constant symbol that
[01:18:58] He remembered he remembered because he was in World War one and he was wounded in World War one and
[01:19:04] Through even despite all that insane sacrifice they didn't win and
[01:19:10] They didn't like the way they got treated by the treated Versailles and so they had that angst
[01:19:15] They had the economic angst they had all those angst built up and hit look came along and was
[01:19:19] Ready to let them focus on something else and and now what what
[01:19:26] Weedor is realizing here is like yeah, he had us focus on something else all right and what he helped how to focus on wasn't good. It was evil
[01:19:35] This is
[01:19:37] crude
[01:19:39] Analogy
[01:19:42] You ought to training day. I have watched training day, but that's kind of the same thing when you watch because
[01:19:47] Jinway because the new he's the trainee by the way when I see a movie I see it like one time in an airplane and I know
[01:19:53] Yeah, yeah, so I'm not I'm not gonna be fully familiar with
[01:19:56] Comparing the rise of Nazi journaling enough that's millions of people to the movie training
[01:20:02] And this is total speculation is just what we're talking about as far as like you know people
[01:20:07] They're signed on hey, I'm German, you know, it's cool and you know world German work
[01:20:11] You know solidarity we're doing and then kind of the Nazi party starts rising starts giving these sort of
[01:20:16] Certain types of influence and they're like oh all right cool. I mean, I wasn't really thinking that but all right we're still Germans
[01:20:23] We're cool and it starts escalating and slowly it's like okay, so you can't turn back
[01:20:27] That's what happens training game right yeah, like he he signed on he signed on and he's like dang
[01:20:32] He's like I don't know about all this, but all right. Hey, I'm signed on to the cause and after awhile
[01:20:36] Which is the same point that this guy got?
[01:20:38] I'm got to where it's like man. Okay. You guys pushed it too much man. I can't sign on to this and then you reflect back on all the vitally
[01:20:46] Ships you don't like you start to slip
[01:20:50] You start to slip when you don't hold the line. Yeah, things that's what happens yeah, and
[01:20:56] That's what makes leadership hard that's what makes life hard
[01:20:59] Yeah, it's really easy to get tempted to go down these trails these paths
[01:21:05] That are not what you should be doing
[01:21:08] Right and like I you got a kind of in mintment. It's hard because in the in the beginning like
[01:21:13] You know, you're you're going on a path you're already signed on right and you see one teeny tiny violation
[01:21:19] And it's like what am I gonna do like make this big stink about this teeny tiny violation?
[01:21:23] Yeah, sure, then you keep going and then you'd already made that exception
[01:21:29] Yeah, time goes on is what you can do bring that little thing again. Psychologically what
[01:21:35] Denzel Washington
[01:21:37] He's he's he doesn't introduce he's gonna straight to level eight violation right? He just gets little yeah little violation
[01:21:44] To 20 feet down the pit a little bit of abuse there, but hey, we're fighting bad
[01:21:48] It's a bad call good and then like a little like what what you know
[01:21:52] Yeah exactly right and that's that's what that's what Hitler did yeah
[01:21:55] That's what Hitler started with like hey, you know, we don't want to have this happening
[01:21:59] Yeah, we gotta keep these things in check. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, look we're gonna at least we're gonna
[01:22:03] Put the Jews in a neighborhood right we'll put them in a separate neighborhood that way. They're not amongst us right?
[01:22:08] Put them over there. You know and that's okay
[01:22:11] You know what we're actually not gonna win them. We're gonna move them somewhere else
[01:22:13] We're gonna work camp okay, and then you just right you slowly escalating for your murdering two six million people
[01:22:20] And then all of a sudden what you're not signing on all of a sudden. Yeah, and a thing and you're like
[01:22:25] Damn, oh, it's a sign on to some of the stuff earlier, but I had let it go. I'm trapped
[01:22:29] You know, yeah, I'm not your trapped and that's where he is right now and he's trapped facing his death
[01:22:35] And recognize yeah recognizing that
[01:22:40] Yeah, successfully
[01:22:42] Extracted the German people from the best of the commonly held European body of human thought like you
[01:22:48] Same exactly what you just said success successively. It's just a little bit of a time
[01:22:52] of it back to the book all of us who were a uniform were entangled in a fabric of
[01:22:59] Developments and circumstances that we certainly had not sought or desired
[01:23:05] Now let's not make any excuses
[01:23:08] Let's not make any excuses
[01:23:11] But we see how it kind of happened as you just said
[01:23:15] We surely could not believe that our employment here in Stalingrad was part of a noble legitimate battle for
[01:23:21] German in interests
[01:23:23] painfully we felt that the soldierly virtues of bravery commitment loyalty no beatings to duty in the objective sense
[01:23:30] We're being despicably misused
[01:23:34] This deep in the tragedy of cruel events in which we now would have to atone for much that we had never wanted
[01:23:44] So yeah
[01:23:47] That's
[01:23:49] You know I've heard that argument sometimes
[01:23:52] If you well you're gonna kill but there's a bad regime and you're gonna go and you're gonna attack the regime and then some of the people that are just there by chance
[01:24:00] You know you hear that argument well
[01:24:03] They're allowing that regime to exist
[01:24:05] Now that's a tough argument to have because you got some of you for them to
[01:24:10] Rebell could mean death
[01:24:12] So they don't get they don't rebel and so they end up in a bad situation that's a tough one
[01:24:17] Yeah, but somebody asked me the other day
[01:24:23] Yeah, it's a long those lines
[01:24:26] You know some long winded questioning on Twitter about what would you do if you were in a
[01:24:31] In you know inside of a state that was Bob all you know repressive and etc. etc. No, this is a go-on word answer rebellion
[01:24:38] Now what I have the
[01:24:40] Mentality that I have right now if I grow up in one of those repressive states probably now I probably just want to survive and get some more bread. Yeah, right?
[01:24:48] I might not just be thinking hey there's there's something more important than me and that's freedom
[01:24:55] And
[01:24:56] This maybe I wouldn't think that maybe I just be thinking hey I want some maybe I can get an extra 20 grams of bread
[01:25:03] No, no
[01:25:06] All right back to the book in this is good in
[01:25:09] The proximity of death
[01:25:12] Things appeared in their true light and proper order
[01:25:16] In such a situation the Bible speaks to us with an insistence and clarity the like of which we had never felt
[01:25:23] They're understood before the fear and misery at the edge of our existence had given us a religious experience who strength giving power
[01:25:33] bound us together
[01:25:35] So he's starting to see relative there's no atheist and a foxhole guess what?
[01:25:44] According to weater that's a very accurate statement
[01:25:48] Among my favorite books in the little private library I had taken with me to the eastern front was a copy of Marcus Araleus's
[01:25:55] self observations
[01:25:58] I
[01:25:59] To had often found support and comfort in it
[01:26:02] It had contributed markedly to completing my equipment for war by serving me as a suit of armor that
[01:26:09] Protected me from all two frequent warnings by events and giving me an inner
[01:26:16] equanimity
[01:26:18] Now this book to
[01:26:21] Like several others had become meaningless
[01:26:25] The wisdom of the world the wisdom of the world
[01:26:28] With its merely human temporal comfort had failed
[01:26:33] It did not penetrate into the
[01:26:36] Ultimate and most profound and could no longer stand firm in the terrible shock and helplessness whose mercy I felt
[01:26:43] Myself to be in in extreme distress with the ground shaking underfoot and
[01:26:49] Amenacing a bits of nothingness seeming to open before me. There was only one last support
[01:26:56] The comforting strength of the Christian belief
[01:27:02] Perhaps we could pass some of this comfort and support on to other comrades who bewildered were
[01:27:07] Reeling toward the abyss
[01:27:10] In their desperation faced with the destruction of a whole world of concepts and in a view of the senseless
[01:27:16] Senselessness of the catastrophe many a soldier on the staffs as well as within the fighting troops had reached for his pistol to put an end to his life
[01:27:26] There was no way back and no escape other disguise their secret fear and inner feelings of emptiness
[01:27:32] Behind a contrived soldierly stance or even deliberately assumed to the cast of
[01:27:38] Mind of a lanks neck
[01:27:40] Which is like these guys were these old school German mercenaries that were
[01:27:47] Super hardcore if they themselves were doomed to go under they would at least sell their skin
[01:27:53] So dearly to the end and take as many Russians with them as they could now that's interesting he's he's
[01:27:59] projecting on these soldiers
[01:28:03] That you know that they're disguising their secret fear
[01:28:06] You know what I'm telling you right now that some of those Nazi German soldiers they were
[01:28:11] They were getting after it right they weren't they weren't
[01:28:15] hiding their their secret fear by acting tough they were ready to die for the fear
[01:28:20] So let's not just paint with a broad brush there in my opinion
[01:28:28] If we agreed that suicide was out of the question for religious and ethical reasons
[01:28:34] As normal we human beings caught up in error and guilt there was nothing left to
[01:28:40] To us put to drink the cup of suffering to the last bitter drags
[01:28:49] Yeah
[01:28:50] In the meantime something unbelievable to happen and made quickly made the rounds our quartermaster
[01:28:55] A still young general staff officer had suddenly disappeared his driver who had taken to the
[01:29:00] Gumrak air base had waited in vain for his return the lieutenant Colonel was missing
[01:29:05] He had silently left Stalin-Grad left the Stalin-Grad pocket the zone of death and destruction on his own initiative
[01:29:12] Probably is a mixture of nerves fear cowardice and the vain hope then in the general confusion
[01:29:17] He might be able to fly out and save his life that attempted him to desert
[01:29:22] The commanding general had made increase by radio the deserting staff officer had shown up at army group
[01:29:27] Plaming the flow now on official assignment from the core on matters of supply
[01:29:32] Our general was wild with indignation and rage to declare that he would have the criminal flown back into the pocket and shot before our eyes
[01:29:41] We were all deeply depressed and and with and anticipated with horror the terrible scene that had been announced
[01:29:47] And which we were spared to our relief our quartermaster was shot outside the pocket on the spot where in his fatal weakness
[01:29:54] He had hoped to find a door to freedom in life so again even though I just talked about some of the Nazis being
[01:30:01] Committed to the end there was many of them that were just trying to get the hell out of there
[01:30:10] Back to the book our commanding general spoke openly of the impending collapse
[01:30:14] Occusingly and with bitterness and secret anger he pointed out that it was not our fault
[01:30:19] We had gotten into this deviless situation of a catastrophe from which there was no longer means of escape. Okay
[01:30:26] Here he is the commanding general is now saying hey look. This is not our fault
[01:30:33] So clear he's obviously not taking any ownership of this, but okay, so it's only asking this
[01:30:40] Okay, Jocco what would it how would it help him if he was to take ownership of it right now?
[01:30:44] Right if he was to say hey, this is my fault
[01:30:46] Would it help him could it could if you say hey look this is my fault. This is why this happened
[01:30:51] Would that help him right now
[01:30:54] No, you're right it wouldn't help them what did have helped him a
[01:30:58] Month or two months ago if he said to himself look we're in the situation
[01:31:02] I need to take ownership of it and get it fixed what it have helped them you're damn right it would of
[01:31:07] He was saying you know what Hitler might not tell might be telling us not to break out guess what Hitler's not here
[01:31:12] We're gonna break out I'll go get shot for defying his orders. That's fine. I'll save all of you
[01:31:19] That's that's where ownership would have come in but what he said was like wait wait
[01:31:23] We're assigned to our fate. I talk about this all the time just because the boss tells you
[01:31:27] Or doesn't give you this support that you need or gives you a bad order that doesn't give you the excuse
[01:31:31] You can't put the ownership on the boss and you're the one in charge you take ownership of it
[01:31:35] You get the problem solved he didn't do that
[01:31:37] So he he's not I don't want to say allow to say it's not our fault, but he okay him saying it's not our fault
[01:31:48] Is a kind of a different circumstance? Why because they're past the point of no return because they're doomed already
[01:31:54] Yes, because they don't have any
[01:31:56] You know take responsibility and then take responsibility for the
[01:32:00] Fixing the mistakes there is no fixing mistakes anymore. That's why if I was him
[01:32:04] Yeah, I would have said hey guys. It's not your fault that you're here. This is my fault
[01:32:08] I should have made a moonover. I should have stood up to the boss. I didn't here's what we're gonna do now defend ourselves the best of our ability
[01:32:15] right, right, so then that would still give the guys some
[01:32:20] Breathing room right some psychological breathing room
[01:32:24] They fought hard they did their best. It's my fault. I should have I should have held you guys do something different and I didn't
[01:32:29] Here's what we're gonna do now the fact that he that these that he wasn't taking ownership earlier
[01:32:35] the fact that he's able to blame now
[01:32:38] Means he was able to blame earlier and if you're but the minute you start blaming you're not solving anything
[01:32:42] You're not getting things done. There you go
[01:32:44] Yeah
[01:32:47] Back to the book, but he left no doubt that together we still had a task to perform naming to namely to fulfill our
[01:32:53] Soldiers, we were soldially due to duty to the last moment. You know, beating into the orders from above we were defend our perimeter
[01:32:59] Fighting shoulder to shoulder with our carbines to the last bullet from his words we could surmise that he was
[01:33:05] Stanchly determined to go down like a captain with his ship and not to survive the downfall of his troops
[01:33:11] On equivocally he pointed out that the commandments of the traditional ethical code of the soldier now demand at our ultimate sacrifice without
[01:33:20] Demur
[01:33:25] Now at this point he's supposed to go out and do a do like a reconnaissance of the lines and see what's going on
[01:33:34] And when he's up there here's what he sees in freezing cold and wild snow for your flurry
[01:33:38] Zyrode across the desolate battlefield on a motorcycle together with a sergeant of the military police
[01:33:44] We soon reach the road of catastrophic
[01:33:46] We soon reach the road of catastrophe arising dark gray against the backdrop of a snow bound step marked by all kinds of abandoned rubbish
[01:33:55] Half-covered cadavers of horses and wrecked vehicles scattered pieces of equipment crates destroyed weapons
[01:34:02] The disperse the starving the freezing the sick
[01:34:06] But all those still fit for fighting had only one objective to which they were attaching their last glimmering as of hope and this objective was stolen
[01:34:14] Grot in the protective walls of the sellers of the ruins. They might still be able to find some warmth
[01:34:20] Food rest sleep and salvation and so they streamed by the remains of the shattered and decimated formation
[01:34:29] Trains and re-election on services with vehicles that were slowly being dragged and pushed by wounded sick and frost bitten men
[01:34:37] There were a macheted figures among them muffled in coats, rags, pitiful rags, painfully dragging themselves forward
[01:34:46] Leaning on sticks and hobbling all along the frozen feet wrapped in whispers of straw and strips of blankets
[01:34:55] Drifting along through the snowstorm this was the wreck of the six-th Army that had advanced to the vulga during the summer so confident of victory
[01:35:04] Men from all over Germany doomed to destruction in a far-off land mutely enduring their suffering
[01:35:12] Tottered in pitiful drove
[01:35:14] Drills through the murderous eastern winter
[01:35:17] These were the same soldiers who had formally marched through the large parts of Europe's as proud conquerors
[01:35:23] Now the enemy was at their backs and death lurked everywhere
[01:35:36] There's an interesting piece that I don't go into too much but this guy had written a paper
[01:35:44] and presented it up the chain of command
[01:35:46] with talking about what happened in Napoleon and he got kind of told like hey that's not going to happen
[01:35:55] us back to the book the events of 1812 seemed to be repeating themselves after all once again the
[01:36:01] Uncanny Russian space was swallowing many tens of thousands of human beings despite Napoleon's
[01:36:06] Experience the basic elements of geography and meteorology had again been ignored to a frightening degree
[01:36:12] On top of that the modern superstition that with the help of machines and motors the impossible could be accomplished and the dangers of space overcome
[01:36:21] had also contributed to our downfall
[01:36:25] And in a fatal pact with the overestimation of mechanized means of war had stood the misapprehension of the limits of human strength and possibilities
[01:36:36] Yeah repeat
[01:36:38] Yeah, you think that one another one of those classic lines that's not gonna happen us. Oh, yeah, that's like it feels like yeah
[01:36:43] You know, that's a classic mistake. It's called the ego called lack of humility
[01:36:49] Don't want to happen us happen to Napoleon one of the greatest you know military leaders of all time
[01:36:53] But it won't happen us because we have some cars we got some tanks or whatever but by the way tanks tank fuel
[01:37:00] Where's that fuel gonna come from
[01:37:02] I mean at least a horse can eat at peace a hey right sure you know
[01:37:10] There's no
[01:37:12] Exxon station out there on the steps
[01:37:17] Back to the book together with several wounded we dragged ourselves on words until exhausted and shattered
[01:37:21] We finally reached the ruins of rubble of Northern Stalingrod City area so now he's actually
[01:37:27] Was retreating back to Stalingrod itself
[01:37:29] What trails did fate still hold and store for us?
[01:37:34] Death whom I'd faced more often and closely in recent days than ever before was still refusing me
[01:37:40] But as trusted companion for many weeks hunger was tormenting me with tenacious power
[01:37:45] Soly making me ripe for the end and
[01:37:48] Frost the third murderer in the trio had also bitten me by now as the constant stabbing pains and some of my limbs warned me
[01:37:56] Separated from our staff our group of officers found shelter in a dark dirty cellar while our men went to ground in a neighboring pile of rubber rubble
[01:38:06] This was to be the end of our flight and our last quarters
[01:38:12] The army had once again addressed itself to
[01:38:16] okay, H and pointing adamantly to the catastrophic situation had asked for immediate permission to surrender
[01:38:22] Which might possibly prevent still complete dissolution
[01:38:29] Disolution and total disaster
[01:38:33] Hey, Lersancer had been a steely no
[01:38:37] For bid surrender Hitler had radiot into the pocket on 25 January the army will hold its position to the last man and bullet
[01:38:46] Imagine being that freezing hungry
[01:38:52] Tortured by the enemy at your back and you got some guy in a
[01:38:59] It a nice
[01:39:02] Drediculous
[01:39:05] It's one thing to be like yeah, we're going to the last one to last bullet and it's this big war
[01:39:10] But it lasts and you know, I don't know week not even a week. You know like the that one big last stand
[01:39:17] And we're going to fight to the death that's one thing and I did it and that's you know
[01:39:21] But just weeks and weeks and weeks of just slowly dying of starvation and sickness and that's way different
[01:39:28] It's way different to try to
[01:39:30] Fight till the last man and the last bullet in that scenario. Yeah, especially because they they all kind of know that there's no strategic
[01:39:38] Advantage to what they're doing
[01:39:44] Back to the book Colonel General Paulus and his chief of staff who's fanatic will to hold out was well known among the staffs
[01:39:52] Relentlessly held on to their fatal decision
[01:39:55] On their part many generals and their staffs remain the executioners of the orders of destruction under the sorry circumstances for fighting
[01:40:03] Suffering and dying continued
[01:40:05] Torcheringly and terribly after the splitting of the pocket the death agony of the army continued for a further week
[01:40:15] In the general dissolution and catastrophe it was every man for himself
[01:40:21] More and more order and discipline broke down here and there and the sellers the still able body didn't combat
[01:40:28] Were the hit among the second wounded cases of uncomrarotterly conduct theft of provisions refusal to obey orders and open mute knee-mounted
[01:40:41] The little late
[01:40:44] The elementary drive of self preservation no longer allowed the question of right or wrong to be raised and the same way that the differences
[01:40:52] Between the front line and rear line S. and the rear echelon were being erased so were the differences in rank and position
[01:41:01] In the final days summary law was imposed in stollongrad with drastic punishments for any crime
[01:41:07] Looters were to be shot within 24 hours hundreds of German soldiers who had become weak in their misery thus became victims of German bullets
[01:41:16] One could no longer generally speak of courageous and heroic fighting
[01:41:23] Certainly here and there there were individual deeds of courage personal initiative and noble self self sacrifice
[01:41:30] But by and large
[01:41:32] Only a mute submission to the inescapable fate remained to the bitter end
[01:41:37] It was rather the silent heroism of acceptance of suffering and submitting
[01:41:49] Not the picture that gets painted very often now at this point at this point right now in this battle is when they hear that speech
[01:41:59] That goering said talking about this great sacrifice and how they fought so well and how they'll be remembered
[01:42:05] forever
[01:42:07] and compared them to lianides and the
[01:42:11] 300 Spartans at thermopoli. It's just
[01:42:15] And here's what these guys thought
[01:42:19] With overexaggerated feverish pathos this see the speaker recalled the heroic example of the last of the Goths and in the end the historical
[01:42:29] So famous sacrifice of the Spartan heroes at thermopoli who had not fault faltered or given ground until the last fighter had fallen
[01:42:37] And so it was at Stalin grad just like lianides in his loyal men in the Greek defile
[01:42:42] So with the German heroes lie on the vulga as the law of honor and conduct in war commanded them to do for Germany
[01:42:49] During this speech full of empty phrases and lies that out did itself in his sterical glorification and praises the demeanor of the deeply
[01:43:01] Delusioned and incensed audience became more and more hostile
[01:43:06] The glances gestures and words all around unmistakably showed the rage that was growing in people's souls
[01:43:13] Whoever might still have trusted in the promise of help from the outside now had to recognize with growing horror that at home
[01:43:21] Where relatives still hope for a union the warriors of Stalin grad had finally been written off
[01:43:27] We felt that we had heard our own funeral oration before it's time
[01:43:33] The disgusting adulation of the tortures dying of our army and the deceit for glorification of conditions that were against all laws of humanity
[01:43:42] filled me with indignition and
[01:43:46] Revolution
[01:43:48] Must not going go onings words have pierced the hearts of our loved ones at home like daggers and rob them of all hope now that they had been
[01:43:55] Fknown in the most anxious fears of art for our lives at home. We had been declared dead
[01:44:01] The heroization and mythical glorification of our stolen grad army was supposed to conceal the sad truth
[01:44:12] For a long time now the heroic tale of the German soldier on the vulga had become an irresponsible mass dying ordered from on high
[01:44:23] The pathetic propaganda of glorification was obviously intended to distract from the catastrophic consequences
[01:44:31] of a criminally amateurist leadership of war and to prevent the question of blame from even arising
[01:44:44] So you pretty much see how these guys felt at the end
[01:44:51] And now you might think you might think that there's a disconnect between
[01:44:57] Hitler, like hate, we're proud we're fighting to the end and this is the way the Germans are and this is the way we are we're superior
[01:45:07] And that the guys in the ground now they'll just beat down and so maybe they're just
[01:45:10] Maybe they're just weak right and they're just giving up you might think that
[01:45:15] You might think that here's this will give you a little indication that that's the wrong thought
[01:45:20] On the one February the news spread among us that Paulus had capitulated with his staff
[01:45:29] And the two southern segments of the pocket and gone into captivity. So the leader just surrendered
[01:45:37] At the last moment he had been promoted to field marshal
[01:45:40] This promotion in the hour of the final catastrophe was grow test
[01:45:43] It was simply a gesture of thanks from above and a goodbye
[01:45:47] So Hitler thought Paulus was gonna die
[01:45:51] Well he didn't
[01:45:55] Paulus surrendered
[01:45:57] But the unhappy field marshal did not set the example of heroism expected of him from the top
[01:46:03] The German papers broad cast later broad cast later tried to spread the impression the style of going
[01:46:10] Speech that in the face of overwhelming superiority the field marshal had burned his secret papers
[01:46:15] And that the generals lying behind their machine guns had fought to the end
[01:46:20] Furthermore after the catastrophe German magazines lied to the German people with faked pictures
[01:46:26] So showing such heroic scenes
[01:46:29] But the truth of the matter was something quite else
[01:46:31] We calculated that more than 15 generals and their staff said gone into captivity from the southern and central pockets
[01:46:39] Soon mosque soon the mosque our radio gave details of numbers and names
[01:46:43] I was only to learn later that some of these generals had gone into captivity with neatly packed suitcases and
[01:46:50] Plentiful baggage
[01:46:52] They simply stopped fighting and gave themselves up to the victor without any further consideration for the fate of the remaining battle groups
[01:47:00] The last request of the field marshal had been that the Russians should treat him as a private citizen
[01:47:07] With this he had resigned the official role he had formally played in the military political
[01:47:13] Interest of the Supreme Commander and as a broken man laid down as marshal ship
[01:47:20] He was driven away in a closed car and no longer needed to see the appalling misery of his sacrifice to army
[01:47:32] So there's no disconnect the troops on the ground were right
[01:47:35] These leaders were liars weak and
[01:47:43] They had no problem
[01:47:48] Persuing glory with someone else's ass
[01:47:51] But they weren't ready to do with their own
[01:47:53] Deep down inside I had increasingly begun to oppose certain military concepts of obedience
[01:48:03] Honor and discipline like those that had been manifesting themselves to the end in the measures taken by our command
[01:48:12] Was this only the so this is this week? We went through all this and he's like only now
[01:48:17] He's starting to oppose some of some of his his military concepts of obedience
[01:48:24] If this was an American the Americans are rebellious by nature like we don't you know if you're leading us down the wrong path
[01:48:32] We stand up and say like no you're not gonna do that stop no
[01:48:38] He's you know here going well
[01:48:40] They've done all this and only now am I starting to question these things and even questions his question back to the book
[01:48:47] Was this only the revolt of my selfish instinct for self preservation was an only an unsolgedly stance fear or cowardice at a time when things had become bitterly serious
[01:48:58] Precisely at this point. I again remember the awkward
[01:49:02] Deeply
[01:49:03] Attraining thoughts and feelings with which I'd ask myself at the beginning of the war why and for whom must you make this sacrifice?
[01:49:11] The same questions that had never really taken root rose again before me
[01:49:16] Jagannically and applicable to the whole army was there really a noble high
[01:49:22] Holy objective at stake here in Salon grad in our and in our battle and
[01:49:26] And ethically justified goal which could be served by ultimate human human test of giving one's life
[01:49:35] Did soldierly honor and obedience to orders really justify this demand so casually made of us that we hold out for this lost cause
[01:49:44] This excess of suffering and dying was this
[01:49:47] Immeasurable sacrifice really decisive for the outcome of the war and could it serve our country and our people?
[01:50:00] This is what this is we want to know why we talk about the wild the time there it is
[01:50:05] Now he should have been asking that question a long time ago and he said he started to in the beginning
[01:50:10] He started to ask that question but he didn't go through with it. You know why because they were winning
[01:50:14] They were winning. It's easy. Don't only need no why what I could go out there you know beat this country beat that country
[01:50:22] Lowly that country. It's pretty easy
[01:50:24] Not getting tested
[01:50:26] Back to the book a foreboding I had long held grew into a terrible certainty
[01:50:32] What was happening here in Salon grad was a tragic senseless self sacrifice a scarcely credible betrayal of the final
[01:50:39] Commitment and devotion of brave soldiers
[01:50:41] Our innocent trust had been misused in the most despicable manner by those responsible for the catastrophe
[01:50:48] We had been betrayed let us stray and condemned
[01:50:53] The men of Stalingrad were dying in betrayed belief and in betrayed trust in my heart the bitter feeling of and all for nothing
[01:51:01] Became ever more torturing
[01:51:04] In my soul arose again the whole of the disaster of the war itself
[01:51:09] More clearly and ever I appreciated the full measure of misery and wretchedness of the other countries in Europe
[01:51:16] To which German soldiers and German arms had brought boundless misfortunes or he's reflecting and he's looking around saying look what we did all these other countries
[01:51:24] Had we not so far the victors been all too prone to close our eyes and our hearts and to forget that always and everywhere
[01:51:32] The issues were living human beings their possessions and their happiness
[01:51:37] So like you said he turned blind eye he rolled through all these countries he did all that evil
[01:51:44] Probably only a few among us had entertained the thought of the suffer of the thought
[01:51:50] That the suffering and dying being caused by our sorry profession of war would one day be inflicted upon us
[01:51:59] We had carried our total war into one region of Europe after another and thereby
[01:52:05] Destructively interfered with the destinies of foreign nations
[01:52:10] far too little we had asked the reason why
[01:52:15] Then the cestides and justifications for what was happening or reflected on the
[01:52:19] Immerserability of our political responsibility that these entailed
[01:52:25] Misery and death had been initiated by us and now we were inexorably
[01:52:31] Coming home to roost they were inexorably coming home to roost the step on the dawn and the vulga
[01:52:39] Head drunk streams of precious human blood
[01:52:44] The Russians were certainly also making cruelly high blood sacrifices in the murderous battle of Stalin
[01:52:50] God, but they who were defending their country against a foreign aggressor knew better than
[01:52:56] We why they were risking their lives so yeah the Russians they're fighting they're dying for sure
[01:53:02] But they know that they're defending their homeland. It's a lot easier for them to understand
[01:53:08] Many officers and commanders now began to oppose the insane orders
[01:53:12] Aminating from the fear ahead quarters and being passed on by army command by this they had they began to reject the long eroded military
[01:53:20] Concepts of honor and discipline to which the army leadership had clung until the end
[01:53:24] In the unconditional obedience such such as was fadely being upheld here in Stalin, God
[01:53:31] There was no longer a soldierly stance, but rather a lack of responsibility
[01:53:39] To say that one more time this idea that unconditional obedience
[01:53:45] Was was
[01:53:47] Was not seen right now as a soldierly stance but a lack of responsibility because you are responsible
[01:53:53] To do something if if you're getting bad orders you're responsible for not obeying them
[01:53:59] And you know I get asked this question all the time not all the time, but you know sometimes
[01:54:03] People say what if you got it?
[01:54:05] We know what did you do if you ever got told something that you didn't believe it?
[01:54:08] I was like well
[01:54:09] We were home the same page like
[01:54:12] It's not like we were getting told to do things that were immoral unethical
[01:54:17] You know they weren't saying hey go burn this village with women and children in it
[01:54:20] We weren't getting those orders he don't I mean we weren't getting told to do things that
[01:54:27] That weren't that I didn't agree with that my guys didn't agree with and then that's the way the milk like are there
[01:54:34] Other pockets where things happen? Yeah, absolutely that's what that's the horrors of war
[01:54:40] But if we got told to do things that we didn't think we should do we were to said no not doing it
[01:54:44] Hmm
[01:54:48] This was open mutiny
[01:54:51] So they've gotten to the point now finally since there were no more errors from the center towards the end many
[01:54:56] Responsible commanders and unit leaders on the line acted on their own initiative and in a
[01:55:00] Devar to stop the senseless shedding of blood
[01:55:03] Many desperate stolen grout warriors in the end sought away out by suicide or by voluntary by a voluntary soldiers death
[01:55:10] We learned of two general suit streams whose extreme resolution had been shattering won the commander of a division from Dresden had shot himself
[01:55:18] After having ordered his son a young lieutenant to report to him to save farewell
[01:55:24] The other the commander of a division from lower Saxony whose tactical emblem was a four leaf cloven was known
[01:55:31] Therefore as the lucky division who did not want to survive the downfall of his men had been killed on the front line while standing erect and firing his weapon
[01:55:48] The last pockets of resistance what was left about six shattered divisions and the remnant of other
[01:55:54] Formations that had mean while been left to their fate by the resignation of the army command now had to bear the whole burden of the concentrated
[01:56:01] Erotax artillery and mortar fire
[01:56:08] It was not only the fear of the coming end the hunger clawing at my intestines and the pain from my frozen limbs that turned the last
[01:56:16] Seemingly endless hours in the stolen grout pocket into the torches of hell for me
[01:56:20] The proximity of death
[01:56:25] Torred the last obscuring veils from my eyes and brought fruits of long years of individual experience as
[01:56:32] Observations tormenting feelings and thoughts into an instant maturity
[01:56:38] Now on the very edge of being war in its for us
[01:56:43] Most terrible form became the inexorable revealer of all things
[01:56:53] He's going through like spiritual awakening as he faces death in my minds
[01:56:59] I the horrible experiences and pictures of destruction that would not leave me in peace by day or night
[01:57:05] We're strong together in a bloody chain
[01:57:07] Experience as an impression stretching far into the past that suddenly awoke in my sharp and memory
[01:57:13] I discovered to be logically connected links of this fatal chain
[01:57:18] What had formerly always caused me to have nasty premonitions and apprehensions
[01:57:23] What had always disquited me?
[01:57:25] I now suddenly had to recognize as having been the warning of a fatal fundamental evil
[01:57:32] The dimensions of which I had fought not fought possible
[01:57:46] Now
[01:57:47] faced with the eminently impending catastrophe
[01:57:50] Requestion about the sense of what was happening it played me so often during the war seized me again with cruel force
[01:57:57] Hundreds of thousands of flowering human lives were suddenly being senselessly snuffed out here in Stalingrad
[01:58:05] What an immeasurable wealth of human happiness human plans hopes talents fertile possibilities for the future were there by being destroyed forever
[01:58:18] The criminal
[01:58:20] Insanity of an irresponsible war management with its superstitious belief in technology and its
[01:58:26] Under lack of feeling for the life value and dignity of man and here prepared for us a hell on earth
[01:58:41] How could the long-eroded concepts of honor, duty, obedience, soldier,
[01:58:46] Lehair wisdom figure any longer into our feelings thoughts and actions
[01:58:50] To stay alive to be reunited once again with our loved ones at home this burning desire was now the drive behind all thoughts and actions
[01:59:02] Gradually
[01:59:04] We had a customer ourselves to the to the idea of surrendering at the first opportunity and going into Russian captivity
[01:59:12] In the end I basically had only one wish to stay alive and healthy and going to captivity unwinded
[01:59:22] So that's it goes into captivity
[01:59:26] You know after going through a
[01:59:29] I don't know if you want to call it a spiritual awakening of recognizing that his whole life
[01:59:34] had been
[01:59:36] Doing something evil yeah in the it's it's pretty anti climatic how it happens
[01:59:47] How they get how they end up in captivity
[01:59:51] Back to the book in the early minutes of captivity. I felt an easing tension and and relief
[01:59:56] In the end the insecurity of our situation between life and death had weighed down on all of us like lead
[02:00:02] What first attracted my attention so now they're captured what first attracted my attention imagine this
[02:00:11] Was the fresh healthy appearance of the victors?
[02:00:15] They're simple enviable winter clothing and good weapons
[02:00:18] Sun sub machine guns everywhere and the uniform picture of sheep skins
[02:00:24] Patted jackets felt boots and fur caps with broad earmuffs swinging up and down
[02:00:29] The warmly bundled up well merged and splendidly equipped men of the red army with their chunky mostly red sheet faces
[02:00:39] Formed a stark contrast to our death-free pale filthy
[02:00:43] Bearded and freezing figures of misery who hung exhausted and sick and they're makes shift winter clothing
[02:00:50] Consisting of all kinds of fur's blanket scarfs field gray head gear wounds and inadequate foot gear
[02:00:56] This sudden meeting and comparison at once showed me how low we had sunk and how little we had been prepared for this murderous battle
[02:01:10] Then the Soviets kind of the Russians kind of have their
[02:01:15] Shots at him fritzy fascist Hitler kaput
[02:01:19] They alternated threats and obviously dreadful curses and contemptuous spit
[02:01:27] Like raging wolfs, vengeful soldiers from the rear echelons fell on the helpless victims time and time again to steal personal baggage and event their spleen
[02:01:39] So now they're captured and the the Russians start to kind of sing and dance and and
[02:01:45] sing and old folk songs
[02:01:47] Back to the book all the noise and exuberance surrounding me formed a shrieking contrast to the inner and outer state which I found myself
[02:01:57] Torn for my circle of comrades left to myself and my emotions in the midst of the joyful dancing and singing
[02:02:04] Victors with whom no contact could be established in my inner heart
[02:02:08] I felt abandoned and without hope totally depressed
[02:02:12] Upluted cut off from home sunk far away subjugated to a foreign will pitously
[02:02:19] Pityously
[02:02:20] thrown to the mercy of an unknown powers
[02:02:25] To be dependent on the whim of the victor constantly watched menacingly surrounded by barbed wire and guns
[02:02:32] forced to relinquish any kind of external freedom captivity men
[02:02:36] an unknown form of
[02:02:39] human submission
[02:02:41] and humiliation
[02:02:47] It is a bounty for us human beings that a merciful hand covers the future from our eyes with an impenetrable veil
[02:02:58] That's a really great line
[02:03:01] Had I known then that I was destined for more than seven
[02:03:06] Comfortless years devoid of love and filled with previously unknown mental and physical tortures and fearful uncertainties
[02:03:15] On the borderline of life
[02:03:17] I never would have found the strength to stand the sufferings of the initial hard months of captivity
[02:03:25] He's saying if you would have known what the future held seven years he's about to be in captivity for
[02:03:32] He wouldn't have even made it through
[02:03:34] He would have given up
[02:03:39] and
[02:03:41] he doesn't
[02:03:42] Talk in this book about what that
[02:03:47] In prison was like
[02:03:50] But he does give what I think
[02:03:53] Is a combination of how we survived it and what he learned from it going back to the book
[02:03:58] time and again
[02:04:00] I was soothingly distracted from my tormenting thoughts and dark visions by the wonders of the brightly shining star filled winter sky that appeared to be so close to the touch
[02:04:12] It constantly drew my eyes upwards as if by magical force
[02:04:17] What it so far appeared to me as the downfall of a world come loose at the seams and a catastrophe without bounds
[02:04:25] Suddenly took on measurable dimensions I
[02:04:30] Regained my equilibrium and found my way back to myself
[02:04:36] Or I had felt earlier that chaos was swallowing me up now calm and peace was flowing into my
[02:04:43] Disquited heart
[02:04:45] The reconciling effect came from the vast order and harmony that the sparkling mass of bright stars with their eternal walls of the universe
[02:04:55] brought back to my attention a new
[02:05:00] The consolation that the stars sank into my soul was strange and hardly to be grasped by the intellect
[02:05:07] It seemed to me as if my personal fate within the framework of events on earth
[02:05:12] Was secretly included within the vast all embracing order of the cosmos
[02:05:20] For the mass of survivors who had escaped from the hell of Stalin-Grad
[02:05:24] The aftermath of the tragedy lasted only for a short while
[02:05:29] They died in their tens of thousands during the early months of captivity
[02:05:35] Hunger and deprivation
[02:05:37] Frost and sickness had already made them a sure prey for death
[02:05:41] Even before the fighting stopped
[02:05:44] With the columns of prisoners death also came to the various camps of reception
[02:05:50] We're terrible epidemics raged everywhere
[02:05:54] An exact accounting of the victims of Stalin-Grad
[02:05:58] According to numbers dates and individual fates will never be made
[02:06:03] The few that were allowed to begin a new life at home and in freedom after long years of captivity
[02:06:11] Will always have to ask themselves how they can justify the deaths of the others by their own existence
[02:06:18] How they can uphold and fulfill the legacy of their dead comrades
[02:06:24] But all Germany must also loyally remember its many many sons that lie at rest in the distant Russian step
[02:06:32] And try today and in the future to understand their unforgettable sacrifice
[02:06:40] The innumerable mounds of soldiers graves and Stalin-Grad have long disappeared
[02:06:47] The cemeteries were leviled soon after the battle and partially converted to soccer fields
[02:06:54] Nothing is left of the army of simple gray crosses
[02:06:58] But it is as if a great invisible cross were rising
[02:07:06] There on the vulga
[02:07:08] Casting its shadow over our nation and addressing penetrating
[02:07:15] Admonishing words
[02:07:18] To all of our hearts
[02:07:20] And that
[02:07:30] Closes out this book with
[02:07:37] Some
[02:07:41] penetrating and admonishing words for us because there's a lot of warnings
[02:07:47] In this book warnings that
[02:07:53] We must pay attention to
[02:07:59] And if we don't pay attention to them then who will?
[02:08:04] Warnings the lessons here first of all as a nation
[02:08:08] As a culture we have to look at the way things fell apart in Germany
[02:08:17] Or maybe you look at the way things came together slowly like we talked about the traditional values were
[02:08:25] We're moved aside and they were replaced with these new values values that allegedly protected the German citizens
[02:08:33] They were values that were going to make the world a better place
[02:08:41] And he uses this term this political religion
[02:08:47] That's a powerful thought
[02:08:50] Political religion took hold and then he used that term presumptuous beliefs that countered the foundation
[02:08:59] Of their existing cultures and beliefs so there's some arrogance involved that we have people that aren't even listening to the counter arguments
[02:09:10] I think we have to be careful
[02:09:16] not to abandon
[02:09:18] The structures of the past in some kind of a race to move to the future because the future it hasn't been tested
[02:09:29] By thousands and thousands of years of human evolution and I understand
[02:09:37] That we
[02:09:40] I'm not saying we don't progress
[02:09:42] If I'm not saying we don't evolve but I'm saying you don't bow down and you don't submit
[02:09:52] You got to think about the direction that we're heading and as citizens as people we have to have the courage to stand up before we reach the event horizon from which there's no return
[02:10:04] So now on a smaller level
[02:10:11] Lessons from this book as a as a person in business or in the military or in any team as a subordinate
[02:10:19] And we're all subordinate to someone
[02:10:22] We have to question our leaders and and I say that all the time
[02:10:29] If we don't agree with a plan or don't agree with a tactic you got a question your leadership and you got to
[02:10:33] Raise your hand, but if we know that the intent of our leadership is malevolent
[02:10:43] Or it's gonna cause suffering human suffering on a grand scale or on a minor scale
[02:10:51] You have to
[02:10:54] We have to say no and do what is right no matter the consequence
[02:10:59] No matter the consequence
[02:11:08] And
[02:11:10] You know finally
[02:11:13] For us as
[02:11:15] Individuals
[02:11:20] We gotta remember that we are in charge of our own lives
[02:11:23] We are leading our own lives and where are you leading yourself
[02:11:32] What are you doing that you know you shouldn't be doing why are you doing that?
[02:11:40] What catastrophe are you heading toward?
[02:11:43] You don't have to be heading towards that catastrophe you have the opportunity to prevent catastrophe in your own life
[02:11:55] But in order to do that once again you have to stand up you have to do the right thing
[02:12:03] You have to be uncomfortable
[02:12:06] You have to impose the discipline on your own life
[02:12:14] So you don't have something else imposed something bad in post so you don't have a catastrophe imposed on your own life
[02:12:28] Because when we avoid the discomfort and when we avoid the discipline and when we avoid
[02:12:33] Doing what we know is the right thing to do that's when you end up in a personal catastrophe in your own personal hell in your own personal
[02:12:42] Stalin grud
[02:12:48] You have to do
[02:12:51] The hard thing the thing you know is right and
[02:12:55] And you know what is right and you know what you are supposed to do
[02:13:04] So do it and
[02:13:07] Avoid going down a path
[02:13:13] That leads
[02:13:17] To your own personal hell
[02:13:21] And instead
[02:13:23] Get on the path that leads
[02:13:28] To freedom
[02:13:32] And I think
[02:13:34] That's all I've got for tonight's so echo speaking of doing the right thing sure
[02:13:42] Maybe you could give us some ideas
[02:13:45] on how
[02:13:47] We can you know continue down the right path doing what we know we're supposed to do
[02:13:54] Sure
[02:13:56] The part where you said you know you're less likely to raise any questions or you're more likely to turn a blind eye
[02:14:04] When you're winning
[02:14:06] Remember you said that
[02:14:08] Like on the one year see boiler room
[02:14:10] I mean, no, no, you're right
[02:14:12] You see that weather yeah, so the guys there's a part where he's in that they're waiting to go to a party
[02:14:18] Something you know they're they're selling stocks right and they're like garbage stocks or whatever inflating them
[02:14:24] Yeah, they're like yeah, there's some so pump a dump
[02:14:28] Yeah, and so they're in the car
[02:14:31] Going to some party and he's like hey, it was what's it Giovanni group that whatever that
[02:14:35] Disney's name's there. He's like hey, do you ever wonder how how we get these big commissions on these you know
[02:14:42] So I mean he's like that's the wrong question to ask you know he's like wait what do you mean he's like
[02:14:47] He's like just just don't ask that question basics. He said don't ask that question
[02:14:50] It was don't you like the way things are going
[02:14:52] He's like yeah, but I do I do but don't you ever wonder he's like no I like being a millionaire same exact thing when you're winning
[02:14:59] It's easy to turn the blind eye
[02:15:02] Good point yeah, man, so I mean I guess that can apply
[02:15:05] Well, yeah, you know it's it's interesting that you point that out and I think that
[02:15:09] Um like on a personal level, right? Let's say you're doing really good
[02:15:13] Yeah, it's then it can be tricky for people to do the right thing. Yeah, too because that's why we see like these
[02:15:19] Celebrity like movie stars or celebrity athletes or whatever
[02:15:24] Man, they do some dumb stuff right they do some dumps like they're winning
[02:15:28] They're thinking they're good. They're good. They do whatever they want yeah, they make their wrong choice
[02:15:32] Yeah, even they're on the evening news doing dumb stuff that ruins them yeah
[02:15:37] And then their own personal style grud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, even yeah with money too, you know, you know like and celebrity types and you know
[02:15:45] Athlete who even just people people
[02:15:47] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're business blows up or whatever
[02:15:52] Yeah, I guess any any any type of winning we could look at yeah
[02:15:56] It doesn't mean you're necessarily doing the right thing
[02:15:58] Yeah, it's harder my point is and I think you're saying the same thing
[02:16:01] Yes, it can be harder. Yeah
[02:16:03] Did do the right thing when you're winning because you just think you're yeah
[02:16:06] Good to go you get arrogant. Yeah. Yeah. Let's not let's not put breaks on this training here
[02:16:11] Just let it all fly kind of thing
[02:16:13] Yeah, and then when the train kind of loses momentum mean while all those those things that you've been ignoring they're still there
[02:16:19] Hey, you know, look at your empty bank account
[02:16:21] You spent all that money you're supposed to keep before you made budget you know our money you were budgeting
[02:16:26] Right you're budgeting you're surviving your budgeting you're doing the sort of making all this money started spanning all this money
[02:16:31] Well the money stopped coming in your budget
[02:16:33] God
[02:16:35] See that's what happens sometimes you can't happen. Yeah
[02:16:40] Also pain now or pay later. I remember that one. That was a good one that you said
[02:16:44] Yeah, did I say that yeah paying now or pay later? We're I think we're talking about like working out or something
[02:16:49] Oh, yeah, I was like I didn't say today though. No, no, no, no, no, yeah
[02:16:53] Yeah, pay now or pay later for sure stuff with me
[02:16:55] nonetheless support yeah for sure 100%
[02:16:59] good way to
[02:17:01] Avoid going down your personal and I don't know maybe does maybe doesn't nonetheless have you in the mood to support you don't have
[02:17:06] In your own personal style and rock yeah, right, but I don't know why
[02:17:10] Supporting would like prevent that you know, yeah, no, no, we got preaching pretty deep for
[02:17:17] But nonetheless, you don't know you don't have any a version to reach a date
[02:17:21] You're reaching deep today. This one is too much style and grog training day
[02:17:25] No, no, those were conceptually they were the same thing they were I know the compare it's you know
[02:17:33] Most of these world most of these like lessons I think I feel like they're kind of everywhere
[02:17:39] Yeah, of course, and you know you talk about these heavy wars and heavy like events and then you know in my mind
[02:17:44] I'm thinking training
[02:17:49] You know what the you know the idea still hates the same there's I think there's people out there
[02:17:54] In various states of mind sure and I think that you know your perspective helps them maybe get
[02:18:02] Maybe see some of them saying because maybe I'm I'm heading them from the wrong angle so yeah, you're coming in from training day
[02:18:08] Movies and yeah, actually and then come to think about it these concepts right here today when you're saying you know
[02:18:16] You know when it's going to take for example when it's going good it's easy to turn the blind
[02:18:19] Isn't that kind of a lot of movies how it is it's like the guy does real good and he's just kind of going and
[02:18:26] He messes up in one way or another
[02:18:28] Yeah, I think there's a talk by Kurt Vonnegut and I've seen you on YouTube
[02:18:33] I think it's Kurt Vonnegut. He's a teaching a class
[02:18:35] You know Kurt Vonnegut is yeah
[02:18:37] He's teaching some class like he just guessed teaching in some class pretty awesome, but he's talking about like there's four
[02:18:43] Plot lines and they're all pretty much this. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool
[02:18:46] But that's one of your you have nothing and then you get everything yeah
[02:18:51] I think I abuse it kind of there's then there's you have nothing you get everything you lose everything and then you get everything back
[02:18:57] He's just got these it's like I forget them all, but yeah, yeah, they're common
[02:19:03] Common story line yeah, they must be kind of I mean they must be right based on real life like like
[02:19:08] Term like scenarios that you go through well, I think it's why it's like come back story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[02:19:18] Your dog store under dog. Yeah, triumphant. Yeah, that's all
[02:19:22] On the last of year in the mood to support
[02:19:26] And you know between your movie watching Escapades
[02:19:30] Is that the correct word escapades? Yeah, yeah, I don't recommend it. I recommend you read
[02:19:36] You know whatever train day maybe we'll get you there
[02:19:40] That's a good I thought anyway nonetheless
[02:19:43] Origin made isn't it weird that like training day is this movie that call how much the cost to make training day?
[02:19:48] I don't know 50 million dollars and like you can go to the library and get stolen by the book
[02:19:52] For nothing literally nothing. Yeah, or you can buy it
[02:19:56] You can buy it on Amazon for I think this book costs like a dollar because it's used
[02:20:02] But it's just kind of a strange dichotomy there. It's interesting for sure and you know
[02:20:09] Obviously we can go into why which one is better for you?
[02:20:12] I'm gonna go ahead and say that's telling me what's better for you than training day. Oh
[02:20:15] It depends on what you get out of it, you know, you know, I like I mean
[02:20:18] That's actually people would ask me how do you read to get the most out of it?
[02:20:22] Out of a book. How do you? Well, I read it while I'm reading it. I lied it. Oh, yeah
[02:20:26] Jordan B. Peterson. I was watching something that you had to say don't highlight anything
[02:20:30] Yeah, this is the this I have a major disagreement with Jordan B. Peterson. I'm not highlighting full
[02:20:38] But
[02:20:39] Anyway, so I go through I highlight what hits me and then I go back and reread it and then I have the red pen to circle the important really
[02:20:48] That's what I do to on the Kindle it you can choose your
[02:20:51] Your color of highlighter. So the yellow is general highlighting and then the orange. Yeah, that's not it
[02:21:00] Nonetheless, all right. Well, how about this we'll talk about some jujitsu geese
[02:21:05] Because people asked me yeah
[02:21:07] What geese should I get you get origin geese? That's it. In America from the threats from the cotton
[02:21:14] As always say as we all know
[02:21:16] Being a mayor to the shirt dirt to the shirt. Have you said that field to finish? No, I just was up there
[02:21:21] I was just up at the factory with Pete. Oh, yeah, I caught the Facebook like I don't know my head
[02:21:25] I'm a my dirt to this show is that to you right?
[02:21:28] I think it might be just like yeah
[02:21:31] To shirt might be field to finish hands in daylight hands in daylight
[02:21:38] But yeah, it makes some good stuff especially geese in America like I said
[02:21:43] good
[02:21:45] In jujitsu, you know, I have a few geese
[02:21:48] If you geese, I don't need use any of them except the origin ones. Go to originmain.com
[02:21:53] That's where you can get your geese for jujitsu. They also have rash cards compression gear right and that's for jujitsu
[02:21:59] I think
[02:22:00] primarily
[02:22:02] But you can use it for other stuff of course. Yeah, indeed big tent also
[02:22:09] Jocquoise some supplements good supplements. Oh, I was talking to
[02:22:17] Kids names Josh
[02:22:19] From Virginia Tech at training. It's a couple of times there and I think it was here for you a few weeks
[02:22:24] It would have been training and you know, so we talk about somebody's young is 21 and he's like oh, yeah
[02:22:29] I take fish oil. I was like dang. That's good. I'm a crew oil's better than the fish oil
[02:22:33] I know this because my I told you I already my post
[02:22:37] Dad told me all the benefits about nonetheless, but he's taking joint supplements at 21
[02:22:44] He said no, I don't have problems with my joints, but I just want to maintain this joint
[02:22:48] situation as I get older. I was like, oh, you're way ahead of me, so I give him some of your
[02:22:57] Joint warfare. Yeah, that's good
[02:22:59] Pete
[02:23:01] Pete from origin he he needs
[02:23:03] Joint warfare he can feel it dissipate in the day and like when I was with with with him
[02:23:10] He'd be you know at
[02:23:12] Five o'clock in the afternoon he's looking back at it. I hold on. Be right back and take some joy of warfare
[02:23:17] So he's that like he's at the threshold. Yeah, he's like that kind of he's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's uh
[02:23:22] Yeah, and that's actually it's interesting because you know you can see
[02:23:27] What's selling and what's cool is you can see during warfare
[02:23:30] Crilloil like what's awesome about is it to repeat customers of people that order it
[02:23:35] Yeah, then they order it again and then they order it again. Yeah, because you don't order it if you're not feeling it
[02:23:39] Yeah, that's what I'm that's how I am with the krilloil yeah
[02:23:42] 100% like if you like offer get and I'll be like you know like oh, I'll take it later
[02:23:46] I don't forget and yeah, you know
[02:23:48] You're just you have don't you have a morning routine
[02:23:51] I don't whatever and that's the thing that's the thing doesn't include just wake up boom boom
[02:23:56] For me medicine cabinet opened my all my stuff is right there. No, and not to go to deep to deep into my routine
[02:24:03] But during the week it's you know wake up and then there's like my daughters for and half
[02:24:08] She has school so there's that situation going on this is not this does not
[02:24:13] In your fear with you getting up and taking some pills for before you brush your teeth kind of not see
[02:24:18] That's the thing the routine doesn't allow for me to take them before I've actually it's part
[02:24:23] It's the routine it's the routine for the other team because for me after you got it you got it
[02:24:27] You got to take the pills before you brush your teeth because when you brush your teeth you got the strong
[02:24:31] Men in there that makes the water like too cold in your teeth. Yes, and I like that. I think it's more refreshing
[02:24:37] I don't see
[02:24:38] Maybe I need to harden up a little bit
[02:24:40] Maybe
[02:24:40] Yeah, probably none the last sometimes I forget
[02:24:43] three four and you if you forget for like four days and you're still working out of whatever you'll feel it
[02:24:49] I will feel it so same thing krillo. I need it
[02:24:52] Yeah, I had life actually
[02:24:55] Actually Jenna Jenna brought me krill oil in oh you're gonna
[02:24:59] For god, I know like bro that's okay, and I want to ask for it
[02:25:02] Level seven panic I forgot my krill oil bring me some yeah, like you know
[02:25:07] I don't want to do that but probably it was important yeah, level seven panic mode
[02:25:11] No, no, that's krill oil back to krill jocquoise krill oil super krill oil is a super it's super krill
[02:25:16] It's not normal krill super and there's many reasons for that you can find out on the website or
[02:25:20] Domain.com if you want to know those exact
[02:25:24] Resents also join warfare that's for your joints maintain your body structure while you're working out good golf because it does
[02:25:34] Disappeate I don't want to use word dissipate, but what do you call degenerate degenerate? Sure after time when you when you go hard in the pain
[02:25:42] It does
[02:25:44] Unless like I said they got compression gear geese rush guards all the stuff hoodies
[02:25:47] Which may or may not be the most comfortable hoodies and pants by the way the sweatpants joggers apparently joggers
[02:25:55] Yeah, so the other day I'm like okay I'm exporting some special effect that I did so I'm like shoot when when you export it's like
[02:26:04] You can't really use that program, you know you can express me it's a long story, but so I'm like okay
[02:26:09] I'm off my computer for you know it's gonna take like 10 minutes a big effect
[02:26:12] So I got land the couch and have the whole origin
[02:26:15] Outfit on for whatever reason just kind of happened to I land the couch and I'm like dang
[02:26:21] I don't think I felt this comfortable in a long time
[02:26:23] But it was everything and let's come that's that's pretty bold
[02:26:26] Stay there because you are a long experience level of comfort come. I mean comfort seeker
[02:26:31] Yes, 100% and I evaluate
[02:26:34] You evaluate various comfort levels. Yeah, this is high
[02:26:38] There will been one of the highest I get it. It was everything. It was a couch. It was the time of day
[02:26:43] It was the fact that I didn't really care around
[02:26:45] You know that I lived with one of my
[02:26:47] Seal buddies for many years. We were kind of just just just young dumb
[02:26:54] From man we had this yellow couch that was like 14 feet long
[02:26:59] You did it was just kind of dull. It was like
[02:27:02] Maybe five feet deep
[02:27:05] It was like a bed no realistically it was like five feet deep
[02:27:08] What's one of you through the back curtains off it was five feet deep and it was probably 12
[02:27:14] 12 feet long and where was this in your apartment? Yeah, it was gold
[02:27:19] It was the old felt
[02:27:21] But we got it from some
[02:27:23] Shop yeah, that's the can you have in like a lounge we did something all ours for
[02:27:28] We had one like that at UH in the in the football lounge. Yeah, it was like it wasn't most
[02:27:32] God, you know that couch you were looking at tomato my house. You're like, that's a nice couch
[02:27:36] This thing that couch out there all nice
[02:27:39] Doesn't even come close to the comfort of the old gold couch yet. I think it was the deal
[02:27:44] yet weird how like
[02:27:46] Ugly like couches will be the most functionally comfortable
[02:27:51] We had this one my wife forst us to give away and
[02:27:55] Cuz it was outside it got phased out slowly
[02:27:57] You know how you get a new couch and you're like okay, what do we do there?
[02:27:59] Well, I'm not gonna give it away because it's too comfortable
[02:28:02] We've had it for so long and it's like in good shape. Oh, and then we get another couch for the you know for the side there
[02:28:07] Oh, we know we do this so it ends up outside
[02:28:09] You know anyone's gonna be a couch outside. It's like it's kind of you know
[02:28:12] Doesn't doesn't look good blah blah blah
[02:28:15] Give it away, but it was the most comfortable couch. I think we actually know the new one
[02:28:21] Nonetheless
[02:28:22] Back to origin go to origin main dot com. That's it. That's where you get it and you can get the discipline there, too
[02:28:28] Yeah, yeah, yeah the discipline big done the pre workout the pre mission the pre mission yeah
[02:28:37] Since it it to me I take it before I work out see I don't I take it before I do jitsu
[02:28:43] Yeah, I take it before I have to do a podcast or take it before I have to do
[02:28:48] Like an look I speak in event where I need to do my brain has to be firing
[02:28:52] Yeah, yeah, could you think it before bed? I mean I know it has a little bit caffeine but like I have and
[02:29:01] I think you can I don't think I'd strongly recommend it especially if you're caffeine sensitive like I
[02:29:05] Yeah, but you drink your nine monster energy drinks a day you can drink whatever you want from
[02:29:12] Jocco White tea because there's a lot left caffeine well that you figure the distance
[02:29:16] She saw a lot of people you know a lot of people hit me if you used jocco white tea to ween off of full strength coffee. Yeah
[02:29:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah, because they don't want to be on that coffee, but there's enough
[02:29:26] Can I feel a little something to ween off? It's like methadone
[02:29:30] Get an off heroin
[02:29:31] So you might want to try that you know the jocco white and you want to have coffee breath anymore. Yeah, because no one likes that
[02:29:37] Yeah, it's really not like methadone, but
[02:29:40] Since the the pre workout pre mission has a cognitive enhancers you figure you know when you sleep
[02:29:47] That's like the best part of your brain or go for the best time for your brain to recover
[02:29:51] Maybe that's a little something. I don't recommend it cuz like I said, but you never know could be could be something
[02:29:57] I wouldn't drink it before I go to bed. Maybe when you wake up
[02:30:00] Yeah, but I don't drink when I wake up. I'll drink because I don't drink it for I don't drink any kind of pre workout for
[02:30:06] Before I work out before I lift weights before I do a metcon
[02:30:10] I don't yeah, yeah, I should I don't know and you know you should I mean
[02:30:14] One of the reasons because I don't like everything. I think my stomach when I'm working out
[02:30:17] Yeah, but those pre workouts is like yeah, I know there's like really anything
[02:30:20] No, it's just like doing water. Yeah, yeah, I'll maybe I'll try it. Yeah, yeah
[02:30:24] Tell me report back, please. Okay. We'll do yesterday also
[02:30:29] Speak to work you know
[02:30:31] I get my kettlebells from on it on it comes last drop. Let's read get them kettlebells the
[02:30:37] Designer way you don't have to get the designer ones. I know I always see the designer ones get the designer ones and I'm still saying it
[02:30:42] Well big time
[02:30:44] So you don't have to like I don't want to get the number ones, but nonetheless on it
[02:30:48] They have other cool workout stuff you want your workout to be creative
[02:30:54] Telling you like you know the you know the mace right? Yeah one of those I have I do yeah
[02:30:59] You've done like a workout with a mace. Yeah, yeah
[02:31:01] I incorporate them my name for I've got two mace exercises
[02:31:05] One of them is called like I have notes in my notebook on what my workout sure and I have like barbarian smash
[02:31:12] That's the word no, no, no, that's the movement of the movement
[02:31:15] Okay, I think you made up them and then one's like a battle act swing sure so yeah, yeah
[02:31:20] You can do this with the mace. Yeah, and the mace is heavy though
[02:31:24] Well, like the various is 20 pounds. Yeah, that's heavy. Oh, yeah, do you have you 20 pounds? That's you
[02:31:31] How much base ball bat way?
[02:31:33] I don't know
[02:31:34] I don't know a couple pounds. Yeah, and then you can put his all 16 ounce weight the other day for the end of your bat when you're getting warmed up
[02:31:40] A mace is 20 pounds. Yes, it's really heavy and the to me very careful actually
[02:31:47] Yeah big time because you don't drop that back that much weight on a on a mace with that weird because the 20-pond dumbbell
[02:31:53] You think out that's a 20 but that's not even part of the workout
[02:31:56] I don't warm up with 20 pounds in any exercise kind of attitude and then you're like so do it
[02:32:01] So light then you pick up that mace and you're like this is like the heavy stick I've ever been to hell before sure
[02:32:06] Yeah, and stick for
[02:32:08] Nonetheless, so you get them as well as stuff too. It's really cool so go on a dot com slash jacco and check it out get something also
[02:32:16] Subscribe to the podcast iTunes Google play stature
[02:32:20] Anywhere there where they broadcast podcast broadcast podcast
[02:32:26] Yeah
[02:32:27] Spotify too confirmed boom
[02:32:29] Do it also YouTube if you want the video version of this podcast
[02:32:35] If you want to see what jacco looks like
[02:32:37] You know you're into that kind of stuff look on YouTube also have excerpts on there actually
[02:32:41] Someone emailed me and said just for the excerpts it. Hey, thanks for putting excerpts on there. That's pretty cool
[02:32:46] That is pretty cool to be like yeah, just a this is cool
[02:32:49] So obviously it's a good thing there are excerpts on there. That's a good thing you because sometimes the podcast goes a little long
[02:32:55] Yeah, it's especially this section
[02:33:00] No, I think you're two hours of reading
[02:33:06] Not the last YouTube some value there. I think if you know you watch with certain people they play putting
[02:33:11] I'm under your tier lives some point. Yeah on our on the YouTube channel
[02:33:17] Yeah, there you will cool even more value send you an alert right? I think if you're subscribed
[02:33:23] Yeah, if you allow the alert and you're subscribed
[02:33:26] Yeah, it's good. That last YouTube good way to support also
[02:33:30] Jacco as a store it's called jacco store
[02:33:32] Jacco store.com
[02:33:35] That's where you can get all the cool shirts. They're cool. I think they're cool
[02:33:40] All the shirts discipline equals for you
[02:33:44] Get after it
[02:33:46] There's even the shirt that jacco wears every single day in his life
[02:33:50] The victim and make sure it's available. You can get it you can get it
[02:33:55] Also rash cards on there some cool stuff women stuff on there hoodies patches hats
[02:34:02] You know what I'm gonna make this commitment right now. I'm gonna put something new every single
[02:34:08] What you're not
[02:34:11] Like cause I committed I don't know every month I'll put something new can people have a mail you to tell you what they want
[02:34:17] No actually yes actually I like that or
[02:34:22] Email email email through the store or Twitter or whatever the P. Yeah, we do everyone does for sure
[02:34:27] A lot of stuff is suggestions actually a lot of stuff already on there. Yeah exactly right heavy or duty sweatshirts
[02:34:33] hats
[02:34:34] You know they're on the way. Yes, but yeah, they're in the pipe for sure 100% yeah, that's a suggestion
[02:34:42] Yeah, these are all
[02:34:44] People
[02:34:45] Suggestions from the field. Yeah, so yeah, it takes suggestions big time
[02:34:50] I kind of I pull the trigger on the ones that have the most suggestions so sometimes I understand you know
[02:34:57] If you're like hey, I made a suggestion and I still have a feeling I
[02:34:59] Don't dress you know you're in the field too and I did it, but if you're the only one side about sorry
[02:35:06] You got no pull over here. Yeah, yeah, you got a little pull not that much though nonetheless anyway jockelstar dot com. That's a place
[02:35:12] Also psychological worker
[02:35:15] If you know what that is here's what it is. It's an album that you can buy an iTunes
[02:35:20] Amazon music
[02:35:22] Google play anywhere where you can buy MP3 downloads. It's an album that you can buy
[02:35:26] With tracks jockel tracks and this is what it's for. It's not music. It's not jockel singing or playing guitar
[02:35:34] What else do you play?
[02:35:36] You go lately now. Yeah, you can lay it right that you yeah, you can care so jockeys don't play that
[02:35:41] He's he's speaking to you pragmatic. He's given us us pragmatic advice on
[02:35:48] Why or how I would say how to overcome certain points of weakness in our campaigns
[02:35:54] Against weakness. That's what it is
[02:35:57] So you know you want to skip the workout you want to cheat on the diet or isn't your compelled to one day because you're you're feeling not an old tired
[02:36:04] If you run into little
[02:36:06] Speed bumps your campaign listen to this to the track for everything trust me. Just look at it
[02:36:12] What if instead of somebody wanting to
[02:36:15] Watch training day they want to read one of these books
[02:36:18] Where could they get them and what's the best way to shop for them while supporting this podcast glad you ask I got the
[02:36:24] Solution right now. This is what I did if you didn't know already
[02:36:27] Here's what I did go to jockel podcast.com jockel podcast.com not the store podcast website
[02:36:33] Organized all the books by episode in section
[02:36:37] Books from the podcast click through there actually that's a good way to support to take it Amazon
[02:36:42] Amazon Prime get the book in like two days boom and it supports the podcast big time
[02:36:47] Good way for things whatever you like man long lawn mower's duct tape
[02:36:52] What else rubber ducts if you have kids you know else you can get on Amazon dot com as you can get jockel
[02:36:59] white tea
[02:37:02] When you get it also order yourself
[02:37:05] Some new weights because upon drinking jockel white tea you will be able to
[02:37:10] Deadlift 8000 pounds
[02:37:12] Certified you know you got some new weight didn't yeah, I did all right we'll leave that that's all good
[02:37:22] It happens
[02:37:25] You can also get some books some books from
[02:37:31] You know that that I've kind of put together one of them is called way the warrior kid
[02:37:36] That book teaches kids to do the right things
[02:37:38] In their lives study read work out eat clean help others work hard
[02:37:45] Get tons of feedback on that book because it helps kids
[02:37:51] They relate to it
[02:37:53] Speaking of related to it. There's a little warrior kid out there 12 years old the name is Aiden
[02:38:01] He reached out to me
[02:38:03] I wanted he makes soap from goat milk. Do you hear the story? Yes makes
[02:38:08] So any of the whole story. Okay. He makes soap from goat milk. You know why he makes soap from goat milk?
[02:38:12] You can't do anything with goat milk and California. You can't sell it to someone because it's not edible or whatever
[02:38:19] They have laws right place right the rags are placed what do you do with goat milk then?
[02:38:23] He didn't want to do with it. Then he figured out I'll make soap and then he wanted to make good to soap
[02:38:29] And so he said hey can I make some jocquist soap and I was like yeah, dude you're 12 years old get after it and he did
[02:38:38] I wish Oaks ranch.com
[02:38:41] You can order yourself you can order yours. Oh, it's on the link on the website
[02:38:44] Yeah from age so you can support a young or your kid 12 years old business owner
[02:38:50] So legit
[02:38:52] Discellenicals freedom field manual that's also about getting stronger smarter faster healthier and better
[02:38:59] The audio version of that is not on audible
[02:39:03] It's on iTunes Amazon music Google play. It's an album with tracks by the way
[02:39:08] Actually, it's two albums with tracks
[02:39:11] On top of that we got extreme ownership the book written by myself and my brother, Dave Babin
[02:39:17] It's about combat leadership that's what it's about and
[02:39:23] If you want to learn how to lead you can check out that book
[02:39:27] Also if your business team or your organization needs a little extra help
[02:39:31] You can utilize our leadership consulting company called echelon front
[02:39:37] You're a lot of talk tonight about the rear echelon
[02:39:40] That's why we named echelon front echelon front the rear echelon with people in the rear
[02:39:44] echelon the front echelons the people in the front lines, and that's why we named the organization
[02:39:50] echelon front because there's a lot of people that talk about leadership
[02:39:53] But they're talking about it from the rear echelon from the back
[02:39:56] We're talking about it from the front our experiences on the front lines
[02:40:03] We solve problems
[02:40:05] Whatever problems through leadership so that's our company echelon front to me
[02:40:09] Wavebab and JPED and L. Dave Burke you can email info at echelon front dot com or the website you can check it out if you want to and finally if you haven't heard yet the mustard
[02:40:21] Washington DC
[02:40:23] May 17th and 18th
[02:40:25] San Francisco October 17th and 18th we've had four of them in the past two years actually like the last two year to have they all sold out
[02:40:35] This one's gonna sell out to
[02:40:37] it is
[02:40:39] a
[02:40:40] Leadership conference where we drill down on how to lead
[02:40:45] We give leadership tools tactics strategies
[02:40:50] That will allow you to lead and win echelon front
[02:40:55] That's our
[02:40:57] event
[02:40:58] You can register for it
[02:41:00] Extremeownership dot com and
[02:41:03] If you want to continue to talking with us or you have questions or if you have answers
[02:41:07] If you want to tell me a mistake that I made in the podcast tonight, which I'm sure I did
[02:41:15] Or you have comments you want to make as to what we do here you can find us on the interwebs
[02:41:21] on Twitter on Instagram and
[02:41:24] On the face you boha echo is echo Charles and i am at jocco willink and
[02:41:31] And finally thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for spreading the word
[02:41:42] Thanks to those of you that make this podcast possible
[02:41:46] The men and women of our armed services that protect
[02:41:50] Our freedom and especially in this case are right to free speech to the police firefighters,
[02:41:58] Paramedics and other first responders that are out there every day keeping us safe. Thank you
[02:42:06] And everyone else that is listening
[02:42:10] Thank you for standing up and leading yourself
[02:42:14] Leaving yourself away from weakness and toward strength
[02:42:23] Away from laziness and toward action
[02:42:29] Away from comfort and towards the discipline
[02:42:35] Away from
[02:42:37] catastrophe
[02:42:39] and toward victory
[02:42:45] Keep leading and keep getting after it
[02:42:51] And until next time this is echo and jocco out