Jocko Podcast #1 - With Echo Charles | Leadership, Ownership, Mental Toughness

2015-12-28T22:02:15Z

Navy SEAL, Jocko Willink and Director, Echo Charles discuss leadership, ownership, and mental toughness. Extreme Ownership. Available on iTunes and Stitcher.

AI summary of episode

And what's interesting is that, like surfing and playing guitar, like that's not easy, you know, it's not, I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not going to talk about golf, but golf is seems like, oh, hey, you just go out and play golf and show some people they get good and great, you know, and it is fun and stuff, but it's not like surfing, you know, and surfing is fun you know what the right thing to do is you know what it is you know it's be disciplined you know it's work hard you know it's put your ego and check you know these things you just got to do you just got to do I think we're close that And I don't want people to think that I sit around and brood all day about the darkness, you know, because I don't, you know, I mean, I love that a good time and laughing and, you know, smile and I want to do that, you know. I say everyone's in a while, uh, you'll hear people going, man, like this country is going like violence or whatever, you know, like going down the jitter or all this stuff. I like the idea that people are really engaged with you online and and they'll ask you questions and you'll essentially confirm like check that that's a good question kind of thing you're engaging I think that's a good thing because these are real questions it's not like questions and we just thought up no that's a great question And then, you know, other people they do have to be reminded, you know, and I think you know what, a powerful reminder because every day, and I would say every minute of every day, I'm thinking about those guys. Yeah, and doesn't that make like, you know, I don't know, a day where you're just kind of cruising to whatever and, you know, looking for a laugh or whatever, and hanging with your friends or whatever. So a person that lacks discipline, they're going to, it's pleasurable, the bars pleasurable, you know, for, you know, generally speaking, TV's pleasurable, so they're going to be all focused on that, like, I don't want to go to bed and face the work day the next day. And so as soon as I realized that, I was like bam, I immediately changed my attitude and I was like, and the next opportunity I had, you know, during a break or something, I was like, you know what? You know, and, and you get these people that are out there that sell courses on developing mental toughness and, you know, they're either going to bring you into a room and get you into some spiritual state and say, okay, listen, you've got to visualize the mind of the wolf and you are going to see it through the eyes of the wolf. And then when you do that, you don't even think about or you don't honestly tell yourself, or think about what you did or what you didn't do, you know, or what you did wrong, you know, to make that, you know, to what role you played. And just like in when you're working with, you know, subordinates and they screw something up, you know, you're, you know, that was a horrible job. But I think a lot of times I'm viewed as like, oh, this is like late riser, like early risers just to begin with kind of seem like these. Doesn't don't those days seem a lot more enjoyable when you do have the darkness in mind, you know, where even, I mean, you know, your kids, so let's, I don't know, your daughter spills the milk and laughs about it. I do my work, I get home at 5 and I, you know, I kind of goof off, watch some TV and maybe, I don't know, maybe even go out to a bar or something like that, where all the work is done, there's no work to be done really. It's like when you're watching a horror movie and, you know, they're like voluntarily, you know, oh, there's a noise down in the basement. Yeah, some more of it, and a challenge and a challenge that it shows when you are good at surfing or not good at surfing shows, you know, seemingly, I don't know, I guess that's just my opinion, but it's always interesting, like the play guitar, sure.

Most common words

Episode transcript

[00:00:00] The pomegranate. What is the pomegranate?
[00:00:02] Chai.
[00:00:03] Light tea.
[00:00:04] Yep.
[00:00:05] That's what it is.
[00:00:06] What is your deep color?
[00:00:07] Your deep.
[00:00:08] So action.
[00:00:10] Action.
[00:00:11] All right.
[00:00:13] This right here is the first
[00:00:16] Jocco podcast.
[00:00:21] Here we go.
[00:00:23] I guess to start off
[00:00:26] how did we end up here? How did this happen?
[00:00:32] I guess I have to thank Tim Ferriss
[00:00:35] for initially having me on to his podcast.
[00:00:39] And that was via a couple of people that helped me out
[00:00:46] get on there, Kurt Pazley, Peter Latia.
[00:00:51] And they made some introductions
[00:00:52] and introduced me to Tim Ferriss. Tim had me on.
[00:00:59] Got a lot of good feedback on that show.
[00:01:02] And that led to me going on to Joe Rogan.
[00:01:06] So thanks to Joe Rogan for having me on as well.
[00:01:10] And once those two things happened,
[00:01:12] and I actually got online and started getting
[00:01:18] communicating with other human beings online.
[00:01:22] And they were asking, you should do a podcast
[00:01:26] because it was interesting.
[00:01:28] And both Joe and Tim told me to have a podcast
[00:01:34] because it was interesting.
[00:01:35] So as I got all that feedback, which was awesome,
[00:01:42] I kind of realized I should do a podcast.
[00:01:46] So I'm sitting here.
[00:01:48] My name is Joko Joko Willink.
[00:01:49] I was, if you don't know anything about me.
[00:01:52] I served 20 years in the military, retired in 2010, myself.
[00:02:00] And one of my buddies, guy by the name of Lave Babin,
[00:02:05] we started a company where we do leadership and management
[00:02:09] consulting for businesses, doing all that work,
[00:02:12] eventually got us to a situation where we had some knowledge
[00:02:16] and kind of aggregated some knowledge.
[00:02:19] And so we put that into a book, the book came out,
[00:02:22] and been doing pretty well.
[00:02:24] It's called Extreme Ownership.
[00:02:26] So that's who I am.
[00:02:29] Now I kind of sometimes find it a little strange
[00:02:33] just to be talking.
[00:02:34] And so as we decided to put this podcast together,
[00:02:39] at one point I had done some follow-up videos for Tim Ferris,
[00:02:44] for him to put on line, and I did those with a buddy of mine
[00:02:47] who's sitting here with me now,
[00:02:49] guy by the name Echo Charles, who is a longtime,
[00:02:54] due to training partner of mine.
[00:02:56] And he does video production.
[00:02:59] He's got a company called FlexPoint TV.
[00:03:04] And whenever I got to do something video related,
[00:03:08] he's my go-to guy.
[00:03:10] And so when this came, this opportunity came about,
[00:03:12] and we were filming the videos for Tim Ferris,
[00:03:15] and we had questions from the internet,
[00:03:17] and we were sitting there and he's filming,
[00:03:20] and we were basically doing a podcast,
[00:03:22] because we were talking, and we have conversations
[00:03:24] about leadership and about jujitsu and about problems
[00:03:27] and about everything.
[00:03:28] And that kind of rolled into, when we started talking
[00:03:32] about doing a podcast, and I said,
[00:03:34] hey, do you have audio equipment?
[00:03:36] Do you have a recorder?
[00:03:39] Do you have time?
[00:03:42] Do you have time to sit down and hang out with me
[00:03:44] and do this?
[00:03:46] And I do.
[00:03:49] He said I do.
[00:03:50] I do have all that stuff.
[00:03:52] And here we are.
[00:03:54] So then what we did was we took a bunch of questions
[00:03:59] that I got from online.
[00:04:02] People hit me with all kinds of different questions,
[00:04:03] which is awesome.
[00:04:05] Thanks to everybody for giving me that feedback
[00:04:09] and listening and talking and communicating with me.
[00:04:11] That's awesome.
[00:04:12] It's kind of weird because I've never been like
[00:04:15] the most social person in the world,
[00:04:18] and not that I feel lonely, because I never do.
[00:04:23] I don't care if I'm alone or not.
[00:04:25] So socially mean like online social.
[00:04:27] Definitely not.
[00:04:28] Definitely not online social.
[00:04:30] I mean, I had zero online presence prior to being on
[00:04:33] the Tim Ferriss podcast.
[00:04:35] And but even socially, I mean, I don't hang around with people.
[00:04:43] You know, I mean, I told you that like the last time I was over here,
[00:04:46] I said, hey, yeah, I just don't do that a lot.
[00:04:49] So it's kind of interesting to me being online
[00:04:51] and communicating with really thousands of people.
[00:04:55] And it's cool because I'm not used to having people
[00:04:59] that are kind of interesting.
[00:05:00] The same thing I'm interested in, you know?
[00:05:02] The Gigiitsu, the working out,
[00:05:04] you don't want to do better, they want to get better.
[00:05:06] They want to learn more.
[00:05:07] That's what I want to do.
[00:05:09] And it's cool to be able to communicate with a bunch of people
[00:05:12] that want to do the same thing.
[00:05:14] And you know, I think that's what this podcast,
[00:05:18] which I know is going to evolve into all kinds of different things.
[00:05:21] But I think the underlying theme will be lessons learned.
[00:05:28] You know, lessons learned.
[00:05:29] I want to learn from people.
[00:05:31] I want people to, I want to pass on what I've learned.
[00:05:35] I don't want people to make the same mistakes I made.
[00:05:38] I want to learn other mistakes that people have made.
[00:05:40] So I don't make them.
[00:05:42] And I think that's kind of the underlying theme here
[00:05:47] with this.
[00:05:49] Yeah.
[00:05:51] What about you?
[00:05:52] I mean, is there anything in your background
[00:05:54] that you would consider to be important for people to know?
[00:06:02] Above and beyond what you just said, no.
[00:06:05] That's, those are the relevant points for sure.
[00:06:10] That's, that's, as we talked about doing this,
[00:06:13] that's one of the things that struck me as you're a director,
[00:06:19] you know, for your business, you're a film director,
[00:06:21] and you don't get in front of the camera.
[00:06:23] That's not your thing.
[00:06:24] Right.
[00:06:25] And so that's why I think this interaction is good
[00:06:28] because you're, you draw things out of people.
[00:06:31] That's what a director does.
[00:06:32] Yeah.
[00:06:33] And I believe that's where you're going to be doing here.
[00:06:35] Yeah.
[00:06:35] Yes, especially what I did a lot of the Metamore stuff.
[00:06:39] That was essentially my, that's like maybe a third of the whole job.
[00:06:43] This is good stuff, how to.
[00:06:45] So the jujitsu players out there, if you followed Metamore
[00:06:48] and all the videos, the, what do they call,
[00:06:51] lead up videos?
[00:06:52] Yeah, like promo.
[00:06:53] No promo videos.
[00:06:54] For the matches, yeah.
[00:06:56] Those were, count down.
[00:06:57] The kill downs.
[00:06:58] That's right.
[00:06:58] Those were echo Charles material right there.
[00:07:02] So you to, occasionally hear his voice in the background,
[00:07:05] with a question.
[00:07:06] Yeah.
[00:07:07] So speaking to questions.
[00:07:09] Yeah.
[00:07:10] We got some questions from the, from the interwebs.
[00:07:13] Yeah.
[00:07:15] What we got for the first one here, we got.
[00:07:18] The first question is, why do you wake up early in the morning?
[00:07:23] Actually, this is, I kind of have the same question.
[00:07:26] Why?
[00:07:27] Because I wake up late.
[00:07:28] Oh, I was in the night club industry for a long time.
[00:07:31] So my schedule was just shifted.
[00:07:32] I still, you know, work out and, and work hard for the most part
[00:07:37] during the day, but my schedule was just shifted.
[00:07:40] But I think a lot of times I'm viewed as like, oh, this is like late
[00:07:43] riser, like early risers just to begin with kind of seem like these.
[00:07:48] Just to blend.
[00:07:49] You know, but if you just shift the schedule a little bit forward, you know,
[00:07:52] you're up for, let's say you get eight hours the hour.
[00:07:54] I know you get less than eight hours sleep, but let's say the typical person
[00:07:57] eight hours sleep.
[00:07:59] If you get eight hours sleep, but you wake up at 430 versus you get the same
[00:08:04] eight hours, hours of sleep, same waking, you know, our, or the same hours
[00:08:09] a way you can do and work and work and just start.
[00:08:11] But you wake up at, in my case, noon, the cramps.
[00:08:18] Where?
[00:08:19] What's the difference, really?
[00:08:21] Well, they're technically, there is no difference.
[00:08:22] And actually, I've talked to people that they're on the night shift, right?
[00:08:26] You know, so they get home at 4 o'clock in the morning.
[00:08:31] And, but I think we both know.
[00:08:36] I think we both know what the difference is.
[00:08:40] And, and I truly think, you know, that waking up early.
[00:08:45] Now, if that early means noon because you, you work until 7 o'clock in the morning or
[00:08:50] 8 o'clock in the morning and it takes discipline to get out of bed, then I believe that
[00:08:56] there's, then that's fine.
[00:08:58] But if you wake up whenever you want and you slept for 10 hours and you're lazy
[00:09:04] getting out of bed, I think that affects your whole life in a negative way.
[00:09:07] I really do.
[00:09:08] I think it's not good.
[00:09:11] And again, I know that some people are on those schedules.
[00:09:15] And I know that some people need more sleep.
[00:09:17] That's, that's, I understand that.
[00:09:19] There's some genetics involved.
[00:09:21] I have one of my daughters genetically.
[00:09:25] I will go to bed at 11 o'clock at night.
[00:09:29] She's still awake.
[00:09:30] I wake up at 4 o'clock in the morning.
[00:09:32] She's awake.
[00:09:33] So there's some genetic weirdness going on there.
[00:09:37] Yeah.
[00:09:39] What, as far as getting up early, let's say, well, how you said, okay,
[00:09:45] it takes discipline to get out of bed.
[00:09:46] Wouldn't that kind of indicate that maybe you need some more sleep?
[00:09:51] Because let's think of like what they know, what they call the natural sleep cycle.
[00:09:56] You go to sleep.
[00:09:57] You sleep your however 7.
[00:09:59] I think ideal 7 and a half or something like that.
[00:10:03] And you naturally wake up.
[00:10:05] You got your S.
[00:10:06] But if you, if you got a drag yourself out of bed, doesn't that kind of indicate you need more
[00:10:09] rest?
[00:10:10] Possibly.
[00:10:11] But you could be right.
[00:10:15] But you know how you always say like, what do you say?
[00:10:18] Psychological victories?
[00:10:19] Psychological victories.
[00:10:20] Right.
[00:10:21] So isn't that kind of, it's a mental exercise, right?
[00:10:25] Yes.
[00:10:26] So you're, if that's part of your routine to fight adversity, you end up getting better
[00:10:32] at fighting adversity, whether it's that tiredness you feel or actual physical pain or
[00:10:39] you know.
[00:10:40] So you sleep, like if you decide to sleep more, it's because it feels good, right?
[00:10:45] So right, then it's good for you.
[00:10:49] But what if you want more candy?
[00:10:53] You know, if you want more candy because it tastes good, but that doesn't necessarily mean
[00:10:56] it's good.
[00:10:57] In fact, it's not good.
[00:10:59] But I do think that there's times that I do definitely need more sleep.
[00:11:03] And, but I don't.
[00:11:05] And I also know that there's a fine line.
[00:11:07] I know when I get, I know when I get over-trained.
[00:11:09] I know when I get not enough sleep and I feel it.
[00:11:13] And my workout starts going backward and my, GG2 starts going backwards and my life starts
[00:11:19] going a little bit backwards.
[00:11:21] And then I know, okay, you know, you, you need to, you need to take a day, you need to relax,
[00:11:26] sleep more.
[00:11:27] Maybe like wake up at like five.
[00:11:29] Yeah, a sleep into like five thirty.
[00:11:32] And you can always tell that when we were training fighters from the UFC, you could tell
[00:11:35] when they, when they reached their limit, when they were over-training, it was so
[00:11:39] obvious that we just fall apart on the mat, just completely fall apart.
[00:11:45] And you know, the other thing is, I, I'm like making a big deal out of waking up early.
[00:11:50] There's millions of people in the world that, that's what their job is.
[00:11:55] They're a single mom and they got to work two jobs and they're getting up at earlier
[00:11:59] than I am and they're going to bed later than I am because they're supporting their
[00:12:01] family.
[00:12:02] So I'm not sitting here saying this is the be all end all.
[00:12:06] But I will say that it definitely, it definitely has an impact and it definitely affects
[00:12:11] the other things in your life if you have that discipline early in the morning.
[00:12:15] It, it will help you across the board.
[00:12:18] Yeah.
[00:12:19] And I, I'd always read this stuff about creative people.
[00:12:23] And this is a complete generalization, but they say that creative people tend to stay
[00:12:28] up later.
[00:12:29] And, you know, usually when you stay up later, you wake up later, whatever.
[00:12:34] It's so, if you're mentally weak, yeah.
[00:12:39] So couldn't it be kind of seen, couldn't it be seen like when my early waking is a total
[00:12:47] lack of creativity?
[00:12:48] No, it seems like here you're driven to get things done, you know, get the job done, get
[00:12:57] the job done well, no excuses, right?
[00:13:04] And at the same time develop your physical mental toughness and improve yourself in these
[00:13:07] ways that it's essentially like, I don't want to say the chores in life, but it's like
[00:13:14] you, you, you, you want to get up and maximize the day and get the most work done possible,
[00:13:18] right?
[00:13:19] So if you, let's say okay, I typically, let's say I wake up at 8 a.m.
[00:13:24] I do my work, I get home at 5 and I, you know, I kind of goof off, watch some TV and maybe,
[00:13:32] I don't know, maybe even go out to a bar or something like that, where all the work is
[00:13:36] done, there's no work to be done really.
[00:13:38] This far is just kind of in a general way of saying it, there's no work to be done at
[00:13:43] the bar, there's no work to be done watching TV or whatever.
[00:13:47] So a person that lacks discipline, they're going to, it's pleasurable, the bars pleasurable,
[00:13:53] you know, for, you know, generally speaking, TV's pleasurable, so they're going to be all focused
[00:13:57] on that, like, I don't want to go to bed and face the work day the next day.
[00:14:02] I don't want to charge the work day.
[00:14:04] I want to immerse myself in the fun part of it, in the candy part of it.
[00:14:08] Then they wind up going to bed late and then they wind up having to drag them
[00:14:12] self out of bed, maybe sleeping a little bit more.
[00:14:15] So wouldn't kind of that discipline that you talk about,
[00:14:18] that applies to the whole day, not just waking up early, right?
[00:14:21] So it's like a whole system. So a lot of people, like, you, that that I've noticed,
[00:14:28] you focus really hard on getting stuff done. And if you maximize the time you have to get it done,
[00:14:33] when you wake up early, then you can do that, effectively.
[00:14:36] And at the same time, I don't want to give the impression that I'm living this, like,
[00:14:41] task driven life where I have every minute of the day scheduled, because then that does inhibit
[00:14:47] your ability to do other things. You inhibit your creativity, obviously. But, you know, I'll
[00:14:56] train you, Jitsu. And I'm going to go there for maybe I'll just go there for 45 minutes and get
[00:15:02] some rounds in. Maybe I'll be there for three hours. And I don't necessarily know that when I show up,
[00:15:07] because I have some flexibility in what I'm going to do in the day. The waves are good,
[00:15:12] may I go surfing, you know, but you're right that you have to be disciplined. It's not getting out
[00:15:20] of bed is like the foundation of the discipline. And I think it carries over everything else,
[00:15:26] because we get out of bed early. And then you work out. When you get done working out,
[00:15:30] me personally, I don't want to eat junk when I get done working out. I'm like, oh, you know,
[00:15:34] I did a good workout. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling healthy. Instead of eating a bowl of lucky
[00:15:38] charms, I'm going to eat, you know, some eggs and bacon and something good. So I agree with you on that.
[00:15:47] Yeah. So, um, fear is kind of a little side note to that question. Well, to me,
[00:16:00] one of the things people ask me like, what drives you, which is kind of a weird question,
[00:16:05] because it's a big question. I guess that's not a weird question. It's a big question. What drives
[00:16:10] you like a long list of answers on the one. But one of the things that I definitely
[00:16:16] think of as a driver of me is fear. And it's, you know, fear of failure, fear of being a
[00:16:25] detective. Yes. Yes. What drives me. But and this comes from, I remember being in the
[00:16:32] SEAL teams. I was when I was a young guy in the SEAL teams. I was very afraid of making mistakes
[00:16:39] and looking stupid or doing dumb things and getting a bad reputation. And that fear got me to
[00:16:44] work early and got me to inspect my gear three more times and got my me to ask my buddy to inspect
[00:16:50] my gear to make sure we were good to go. So I think that's what the fear is. And then there's also
[00:16:55] the fear of what the enemies doing. And how hard are they training? And are you training harder than them?
[00:17:02] And now that I'm in the civilian world, I'm thinking, okay, what is, what is, you know,
[00:17:07] some other company doing better than we're doing? And how can we overtake them? You know? And that's
[00:17:14] some weird fear and competitiveness that, you know, everybody has. Some people more than others.
[00:17:21] You got a balance it for sure. But it's definitely one of those things. Yeah. Yeah,
[00:17:27] sometimes that can get in the way, especially when you mentioned like, what is that other company
[00:17:32] doing? So I knew this guy that my brother worked with that he would be one of those guys where
[00:17:39] he'd be really concerned on what's the, what's the competition doing? So he'd be developing this
[00:17:44] aspect of his company and it's like right in the middle of development. Yeah. And
[00:17:48] but he'd be paying the tail. You know, one air would be on the, you know, what's going on with this other
[00:17:51] company? And they'd do some new thing or go in some new direction that really yields a lot of success
[00:17:56] for. And we got to do that. We got to, meanwhile, these other ideas that are solid, viable ideas are
[00:18:01] left half developed or the resources are kind of allocated to do this new thing and not so much
[00:18:06] the old stuff. And you know what, I actually got asked is working with a company the other day and they said,
[00:18:11] you know, how much will we be focused? Because I said something along these lines. This is,
[00:18:15] how much will we be focused on what the enemy, on what the competitors are doing? And should we be
[00:18:20] afraid of them? And I said, actually fear is the wrong word. You shouldn't be afraid of the enemy,
[00:18:28] but you have to respect them. And I think that's the thing that gets me out of that in the early
[00:18:34] in the morning is that I respect the enemy. I'm out of freedom, but I respect them and I'm going
[00:18:40] to be ready to do battle with them when it's time comes. You know, this is kind of a side note,
[00:18:45] but isn't, don't you kind of think too sometimes where it's, you're almost like reflecting yourself.
[00:18:51] When you say you're, you're, you respect and you, for lack of a vector, fear the enemy,
[00:18:56] what they're doing to prepare, because you know what you're doing to prepare, and it's pretty hard.
[00:19:00] So you kind of almost in the back of your mind is thinking they're probably doing all this too.
[00:19:05] You know? So it's like the more you do, the more you kind of inableared some kind of just way
[00:19:09] might think they're doing the same thing, you know? So it's like boom boom, this never ending
[00:19:13] like, it's in your arms race. Yeah. It's a arms race. Yeah. It's a arms race, someone. Yeah.
[00:19:17] And if you get caught up in it to a point like the example you just gave you, I can drive you crazy.
[00:19:22] And you know, it'll drive you to failure. You know, you have to be able to stand on your own and
[00:19:27] and say, okay, we're going to, we're going to maneuver regardless of what the enemy is doing.
[00:19:30] We're going to make our, we're going to make our moves. Yeah.
[00:19:37] Next, what do we got next? Next question.
[00:19:41] Oh, actually there's a, life, you know, and other people, single one. Yeah, I kind of,
[00:19:47] I kind of went through that. Yeah, as this, this applies to everyone. So under like concept.
[00:19:55] Okay. Well, then, and you kind of talked about this before mental toughness. How do you, and
[00:20:02] this is an unknown that applies to me where, certain, you see it even in high levels, certain people,
[00:20:08] it's almost like they've navigated their way through life and two into success, not really
[00:20:15] needing that much mental toughness because maybe they had some special attribute that allowed them
[00:20:21] to be successful early on and kept them succeed. You know, like these athletes were in the most
[00:20:25] center of the reality. Yeah. And, you know, and you, you kind of noticed it when things get rough
[00:20:31] for them, that's when they break or whatever. And so, I mean, I'm not saying I'm like a superior athlete
[00:20:38] or nothing like that, but it just so happens in a lot of ways, some ways, whatever.
[00:20:42] Um, I managed to avoid developing mental toughness up until about maybe two years ago. Maybe.
[00:20:55] But, and I, of course, I know how mine came about. I think, I mean, the main reason was just
[00:21:03] through maturity and seen it around me, but let's say I didn't, I wasn't surrounded by people
[00:21:09] who are mentally tough and they didn't see the value firsthand. How do you just develop mental
[00:21:14] toughness? Again, this is one of those things that people ask and this was a big question from
[00:21:20] online. You know, tons and tons of people asked how do you develop mental toughness? How do you
[00:21:26] become more mentally tough? And, you know, you and I did that video on it, or it's like, if you
[00:21:31] want to be more mentally tough, then be tougher. You know, and, and you get these people that are out there
[00:21:41] that sell courses on developing mental toughness and, you know, they're either going to bring you
[00:21:47] into a room and get you into some spiritual state and say, okay, listen, you've got to visualize
[00:21:54] the mind of the wolf and you are going to see it through the eyes of the wolf. What does a wolf do?
[00:22:02] The wolf does not back down. He leads the pack. And they're, I call this stuff, right? Okay,
[00:22:07] I'm not, I don't know, you know, and not, not my gig right there, because because the cool thing
[00:22:14] about mental toughness is, is it's just a simple choice that you have to make? Are you going to
[00:22:19] go through this thing that's hard, this thing that's tough, this thing that sucks, are you going to
[00:22:23] suffer through it, or are you going to quit? It's really easy. You, you just go, okay, I'm going to
[00:22:28] suffer through it. I'm going to deal with it. Then you're mentally tough. Done. Next question. Let's move
[00:22:32] on to something more important. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't that, and maybe I'm wrong
[00:22:38] here, but that sounds like the answer coming from someone who has, doesn't sound crazy, but has
[00:22:43] the luxury of being mentally tough. So, if when you're, do you ever remember time that you were
[00:22:48] not that you were straight up mentally weak? Do you ever remember any time? No. 1996, I was, now I'm just kidding.
[00:23:03] You know, like, I'll tell you people talk about in-seal training. They say, oh, everybody,
[00:23:08] everybody wants to quit at some point during seal training, and I literally, not at all, never
[00:23:14] from one second, do I think I'm going to quit? I don't want to do this anymore. Not even a chance.
[00:23:18] That's ridiculous. Who says that? Seal said, yeah, absolutely. You know, everyone thinks about
[00:23:25] quitting sometime. No, and I got plenty of bros and the seal teams that never thought about quitting.
[00:23:30] Yeah, I'm telling my best friends. Yeah. They said, no, you don't even think about quitting. Yeah.
[00:23:35] And so those guys are mentally tough. And, okay, so if you're not mentally tough, if you view
[00:23:40] yourself as mentally weak, then you got to do things, I guess, push yourself to that threshold,
[00:23:47] and how do you push yourself to that threshold? You do mentally challenging things. You do
[00:23:50] physically challenging things, and you push through them. Yeah. And then that might develop your
[00:23:56] mental toughness more. Right. Yeah, you think that, like, any exercise, getting the reps, you need
[00:24:03] to get those reps of hard stuff mentally. Like, that's something I analogy you just made. That's not.
[00:24:10] That doesn't seem like that would ever work. No matter if you're visualizing yourself as a wolf or
[00:24:15] whatever, you're not even getting the reps. That's like saying, oh, I've never played basketball
[00:24:21] ever. I've never been held a basketball, but guess what, we're going to get you. We're going to
[00:24:24] prepare you to be good at basketball, close your eyes, visualize play basketball, and that's your reps.
[00:24:29] Yeah. So, it probably won't work. So, back to the fear thing. We're going to be hammered because
[00:24:34] all these people can be like, no, if you visualize you get better. That's true. Right. You're not
[00:24:38] in mental strength, but mental toughness. You're right. You're my fear. That's more of a motion
[00:24:42] thing. Right. You visualize, you know, winning and reacting and so mental toughness, maybe,
[00:24:48] but it won't substitute reps. Like, if you're scared of something, for example, that should be
[00:24:53] like a flag. We're an indicator that, okay, I got it. Let's get some reps right here. I'm
[00:24:57] scared of this. You're right. And that being said, like you talking about your body, your
[00:25:01] seal buddies, that never we're going to quit, right? And I was definitely never going to quit.
[00:25:07] Well, I didn't have any reps going into that of, you know, mentally challenging things or whatever.
[00:25:13] I mean, what did in life, in life, but this is why I say that. I'm not, I obviously wasn't in
[00:25:20] the seal team, so they might find that hard to believe. No, these guys both played football,
[00:25:29] do you want school? They both, one of them's father was a Navy seal and just growing up a certain
[00:25:38] way with a certain environment does make you tell, like, let's say your father, just not letting
[00:25:43] you quit. Like, you play at least even about Warner football. And your dad's like, no, you, you can't
[00:25:50] quit. Like, I want to quit this is lame. I'm not good. Or if I'm so just so tired of my hurt or whatever,
[00:25:55] and your dad's saying, no, you don't quit and it just is in your mind. And this is the
[00:25:58] crazy thing about the seal teams is there's kids that grew up in, you know, some rich town with
[00:26:05] very wealthy parents and went to an Ivy League school and they're tough and there's kids that
[00:26:10] grew up with no dad and, you know, a single mom and their their toughest hell. So that theory is
[00:26:17] almost debunked because where does that mental toughness come from? It becomes from a bunch of
[00:26:22] different places that just is interpreted and kind of internalized in the same way. And I'll tell
[00:26:28] you where I think it comes from. I think it comes from when a when a human being decides that they're
[00:26:33] going to achieve their goals and they're going to go through whatever obstacles, then that's where
[00:26:36] mental toughness comes from. It is a decision that human beings make to make it happen.
[00:26:42] Yeah, yeah, but I think that when you know, like you're doing it right now, you're
[00:26:49] shrinking responsibility for mental toughness. That's what you're doing. I'm trying to narrow it down.
[00:26:54] You're basically, you're basically saying right now like you didn't, if you weren't developed
[00:26:59] away that raised mental toughness and as everyone else has followed, it's your fault you're not tough.
[00:27:04] Take me the exact opposite of extreme ownership of my black mental tough for former
[00:27:11] and working on it. No, but I think it is a lot of environmental factors. You're like you become tough
[00:27:17] because of certain environments. Yeah, I guess I guess we we would need to see what happens with a
[00:27:23] people that aren't mentally tough. Because where do they end up they end up in the gutter?
[00:27:27] They end up dead. They end up in jail. They end up in bad places because they weren't mentally
[00:27:32] tough. They didn't figure it out. They didn't drive through it. And so we don't even know who those
[00:27:36] people are. What happened to them? They failed. They didn't make that decision. They didn't decide
[00:27:44] that they're going to get out of that bad situation that they're going to push through that scenario.
[00:27:47] The guys that you played football with, they drove through that. Those bad situations got there.
[00:27:53] No, that's how they did it. They decided to do it. Yeah. Yeah, making that decision, I guess
[00:28:00] it's they would have to sort of access a place in their mind where that decision is final.
[00:28:06] Because a lot of times people say, yeah, I'm going to do this and that's my dream and
[00:28:11] I'm going to be an architect and then when they go to college when the beginner class is
[00:28:16] three hours a day for five days, they're, oh, wow. Well, no. That's one thing that the
[00:28:22] seal training does very well is gets rid of those people. Because everyone that shows up there
[00:28:28] thinks they want to be a seal until you know, to be ex into it. And then you've got half the
[00:28:33] guys and then you end up with 20% of the guys. And everyone has that dream when they show up there.
[00:28:37] Yeah, but that dream gets crushed. So as a try to imagine yourself, you probably not be able to
[00:28:44] do this, but imagine yourself mentally not tough. Okay. I don't even want to say weak, just an average
[00:28:49] person, you know, when you get you're doing some push-ups, you hit about 15, you're like,
[00:28:56] all you hit 20, you're like, okay, I can't do anymore. So you stop doing the push-ups. Okay.
[00:29:00] Not the guy who's going to get those five extra. You're not that guy.
[00:29:03] Yeah. Is there an exercise or an approach to just be on the path that at least increase my mental
[00:29:13] your mental toughness? Yeah. Like what they're like, keep going.
[00:29:17] Yeah, but I don't want to get I can't keep going. Yes, you can. I mean, I can. Yes. Yes, you can.
[00:29:22] That's the difference. You can. You just got to sit. Okay.
[00:29:26] Okay. I remember I read the small little book. It was called Mind Games. And there was
[00:29:33] just one short chapter on, on anger, anger issues. And I never had angry issues or nothing like that,
[00:29:44] but I'd like anyone else as young as like, I don't know, 22, 24. You know, I get mad and think
[00:29:49] I'm better than certain rules. And when I get caught out on the rules, I'd pitch it, like, you know,
[00:29:52] having attitude or whatever. So I read this little chapter and it said, anger issues along with
[00:30:02] other things comes from a low self esteem because you're real sensitive and you react, you know,
[00:30:08] in this aggressive way or whatever. But the word low self esteem was like a trigger for me. So
[00:30:13] having a low self esteem for whatever reason, that was like an embarrassing thing. Yeah. So I, so,
[00:30:18] you know, so that could be a little trigger. So you could find little triggers in, let's say,
[00:30:23] you know, you're doing push ups and you don't want to do five more. The fact that you
[00:30:26] don't want to do the five more, that should be embarrassing to you. Yeah. You know, like, if you
[00:30:30] kind of tell yourself that, that'll help you make that decision where I'm not going to
[00:30:35] embarrass myself right now. You know, so that fear of embarrassment can get you into the mode to
[00:30:41] to want to exercise more mental toughness, you know, any that trigger. And at the end of the day,
[00:30:46] when you feel that weakness, it's a choice to make to overcome it. It's not that big of a deal.
[00:30:52] You just sock it up and do it. Let's go to the next question.
[00:31:08] What are some key mental and physical steps or patterns to stay on game?
[00:31:14] Yes, this is one of those questions that we got a very simple,
[00:31:18] just a very similar question to this. What are the five key?
[00:31:23] And people want to put numbers on things, especially these days. I think people's
[00:31:26] intelligent Spain. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People want to see a list of, okay, if I do this.
[00:31:30] Yeah. And I guess, you know, that's, it sells. Right. What are the five,
[00:31:35] in fact, they've done a bunch of articles about life and they, they, they throw like a number on them.
[00:31:40] The 12 things, the three things because people want to believe that there's a finite number
[00:31:47] of steps to take. And also as far as an article for consumption, it makes you feel mentally
[00:31:53] comfortable to know that, okay, it's not this old, it's finite. No, no, no, no, not much. I'm going to read.
[00:31:57] I know I'm going to read the 12. You know, and that's what I'm going to eat. You know,
[00:32:03] you know, this is going to go back to what we've already been talking about. You know,
[00:32:06] for me, waking up early, working out every day, taking ownership of what you're doing and
[00:32:11] responsibility of things that are in your life, making sure that you periodically, throughout
[00:32:24] the day, throughout the hour, maybe not throughout the minute, but that you detach yourself
[00:32:31] from the situation that you're in. You detach yourself from it and you look at yourself and
[00:32:37] you assess. And I think that has a huge impact. And you know, I talk about that a lot, that
[00:32:43] detachment that it is something that I learned in the seal teams. And I learned it when bad things
[00:32:52] were happening. And if you get sucked into those bad things and you're in them mentally, emotionally,
[00:32:59] and physically, you can't assess well, because you're in the problem. It's like when you're
[00:33:05] watching a horror movie and, you know, they're like voluntarily, you know, oh, there's a noise
[00:33:12] down in the basement. Let's go see what it is. Everyone that's watching the movie that detached
[00:33:15] from the situation is screaming at the screen. No, don't do it. The people that are there are
[00:33:20] are saying, yes, let's go check it out because they're emotionally and physically and mentally
[00:33:26] in the situation. So having the ability to detach from the present from being an inside your own
[00:33:33] head, being able to detach from that is usually important because it allows you to do a real
[00:33:38] assessment of yourself and then finally stay in humble. You can't ever think that you've got
[00:33:48] everything figured out. You've got to constantly be saying, you know, what can I do better? What can
[00:33:52] I fix? What am I screwing up? And people are going to give you advice and you've got to take it
[00:33:59] and listen to it and see if it's good or not, maybe put it to the test. But I think those things,
[00:34:05] you know, waking up early, working out, taking ownership of stuff, being able to detach an
[00:34:11] assess and stay in humble. Those are those are kind of my main stays if I had to call them out
[00:34:17] on the list of five things that make you better. Yeah, the ownership that I don't, I mean, they're
[00:34:25] all pretty, you know, these are all challenges for sure. These aren't just easy things to do,
[00:34:30] but the ownership, I think that's a big key, like, in your book, what it talks about, the whole theme
[00:34:37] of the book, extreme ownership, where any situation when something goes wrong, when it doesn't
[00:34:42] go perfectly or you want it to go better. It's so easy, super easy, especially if you're emotionally
[00:34:48] charged or whatever. It's so easy to be like, well, that guy didn't do his job or whatever. And a lot
[00:34:53] of the cases, it's true. That guy didn't do his job. And then when you do that, you don't even think
[00:34:59] about or you don't honestly tell yourself, or think about what you did or what you didn't do,
[00:35:06] you know, or what you did wrong, you know, to make that, you know, to what role you played.
[00:35:11] And that's why that detachment is critical, because if you don't detach, it's very easy to be in
[00:35:17] your own head and say, well, echo screwed up his part, and that's why we failed the mission,
[00:35:21] because echo didn't do his job. And now, but as soon as I hear myself saying that, when I'm saying
[00:35:27] it, it's okay. When it's coming out of my mouth, right? I see myself saying it, then I know that
[00:35:33] I've, yeah, I've gone the wrong way. I know that I've made a mistake. Yeah. And what's interesting
[00:35:39] is when you, when you, and it's something you can do right now, you don't have to get trained in it,
[00:35:44] you can start practicing taking ownership of everything you possibly can't literally right now.
[00:35:49] And what I found and really like about it is that it works not just like with business, it works
[00:35:56] with everything, relationships with friends, relationships with your wife, your girlfriend,
[00:36:01] her boyfriend, and whatever, all that. It works amazing in all those situations. So it apply this
[00:36:06] really kind of like a staple for life. You don't like a way to conduct yourself in life.
[00:36:14] Yeah. And that is, that is why that is why that became the title of the book, because that is the
[00:36:19] underlying characteristic that helps people in their life. And I mean, that means as a leader,
[00:36:26] of course, obviously, in a, in a pressure situation, obviously, in a business, obviously, but you're
[00:36:32] right. And it takes transitions across the board to life. And it makes you successful across the board
[00:36:39] when you take ownership of everything, no doubt about it. So at age 44, you get out of bed,
[00:36:49] bus your ass, like the next mission is around the corner. What drives you? Actually,
[00:36:56] you kind of talked about that kind of that fear of the enemy's preparation. Yeah. But what do you, you know,
[00:37:05] this is one of those things that when people start talking about war,
[00:37:16] and what war does to people? And you know, nowadays we're hearing, and we see more, and we know more
[00:37:28] about what war does to people's minds. And obviously, it is, it can have some some extremely
[00:37:42] negative impacts on people. And there's a lot of veterans right now that are suffering, that are
[00:37:50] having a hard time. And I think for me, when I think about what drives me,
[00:38:06] it's an extremely powerful force that's driving me today. And that is that I served with guys,
[00:38:24] that sacrifice their lives so that we could be here, so that I could be here,
[00:38:34] so that we could have freedom. So that I could have never mind freedom, so that I could be here all
[00:38:41] life. And when you think about that, when you think about this gift, this gift that you've been given
[00:38:56] to come back to America and be free and have a life and have liberty and be free for the pursuit
[00:39:07] of happiness. And you think about that gift. It's the most beautiful thing anyone could ever give you.
[00:39:16] It's been given to you. It's been given to me. And I will not squander that gift. And I will make
[00:39:23] every day count as I remember those guys that gave that gift to me.
[00:39:34] Yeah, funny how like, you know how you kind of get a glimpse of certain people's life and how they
[00:39:43] how they behave and how they act what their routine and schedule is. And when you like you just
[00:39:50] hearing that and you've said that before and you've even kind of said that to me before and it kind
[00:39:56] of reminds you how much reminds me how much I'm not doing. You know, if you get free money,
[00:40:06] it almost means less than if you earn it. So I think a lot of times when you don't do a lot or
[00:40:14] you have been served or something like that, it's almost like free money. And you've been exposed
[00:40:19] to earning that money in the real sense. So that's, boom, that's constantly just in your nature now.
[00:40:28] And then, you know, other people they do have to be reminded, you know, and I think you know what,
[00:40:33] a powerful reminder because every day, and I would say every minute of every day,
[00:40:43] I'm thinking about those guys. And that, that's uh, that definitely pushes me and I don't want
[00:41:01] to let those guys down. Yeah. So in regards to the military, you know, officers entering
[00:41:18] spec ops or other elite scenarios, what advice would you have for them? You know, this is again,
[00:41:27] this is one of those questions that's come up. And I get this a lot because a lot of people that
[00:41:33] listen to Joe Rogan, a lot of people that listen to Tim Ferris, they're younger folks and they,
[00:41:39] they might be stepping into leadership position for the first time. And so we definitely got a lot of
[00:41:44] a lot of questions from military guys that are getting promoted, they're going to be promoted into
[00:41:49] leadership positions. And we get a lot of younger people that are stepping into the business world and
[00:41:55] they're stepping into leadership roles for the first time in those situations. And I think that um,
[00:42:02] and I would tell both the special operations folks and the folks in the business world,
[00:42:09] the same thing because as if anyone's listening to me at all or heard anything that I say or
[00:42:13] read the book, the leadership principles do not change regardless of his in business or
[00:42:17] in battle. The leadership principles stay the same. And so if you're new and you're up and coming,
[00:42:22] what do you do? How do you step up into that role? Number one, be humble. I know it's a theme.
[00:42:27] I sound like a broken record, but you everybody knows everybody's seen that cocky guy that walks in
[00:42:36] and thinks they're going to run everything and you just instantly disrespect that person. So how
[00:42:41] do you overcome that? You come in and you be humble. You respect people. You respect people. Regardless
[00:42:47] of what rank you are, regardless of whether you're making a ton more money than someone else. It doesn't
[00:42:53] matter. You treat everybody with respect. You treat them with respect and they're going to respect
[00:42:58] you. You listen to them. It means so much when when one of your people comes and talks to you
[00:43:06] and you sit down and say, okay, let me take some notes on what you're saying. That means so much to them.
[00:43:12] And sometimes people forget that. They forget what it means to look up and see the boss man.
[00:43:17] And they might blow a guy off or, hey, I don't have time for you right now. You've got to listen to
[00:43:23] people because what you're trying to do in a leadership position. And this is a word that
[00:43:30] I've only recently become comfortable saying. The word is relationships. You are truly,
[00:43:39] that's what that's what businesses. That's what life is. That's what businesses. That's what
[00:43:47] combat is. That's how you lead people in combat in business. You have relationships with them.
[00:43:53] Lafan, I talk about this all the time. You know, sure, I can give you an order if you're
[00:43:58] below me and rank and you might do it some of the time. But you're not going to, the people that
[00:44:04] really follow you that you have a relationship with you. Those guys will do anything for you.
[00:44:08] The guys that I worked with, the guys that worked for me were my subordinates. They do anything
[00:44:15] for me. And you know what? I would do anything for them. I would do anything for those guys.
[00:44:19] The guys that were in my task unit, it's guys were awesome. They were awesome guys. And I would do
[00:44:24] anything for those guys. I would give them anything. Anything. And they would do the same for me.
[00:44:30] Why? Because we had relationship. That was what we had. It wasn't because I would order them to
[00:44:35] do something that doesn't work. So you've got to build those relationships and how do you build
[00:44:40] relationships? How do you build relationships then? You build relationships by doing those things,
[00:44:46] by respecting people, by being humble, by listening. By telling them the truth, by having integrity
[00:44:53] and telling people the truth, you can't lie to people. And when I'm lying as a strong word,
[00:45:00] because I don't think people are generally lying to each other in regular basis. But people
[00:45:07] people use half truths and they chatted things and you can't do that. And people see right through it.
[00:45:15] And even if they don't know what the truth is, they know they're not getting the truth.
[00:45:19] So, you know, I was always with my guys. Okay, here's what's going on. Here's the problem.
[00:45:24] Here's what we screwed up. Here's what we need to do better. Here's the pressure I'm under from
[00:45:28] higher headquarters. Here's why I'm under this pressure. I'm not sugar coating it. I'm not trying
[00:45:34] to set something up to be different than what the reality is. If I'm getting told to do something
[00:45:41] that I don't believe in, okay? Now this is a tough one. If I'm getting told to do something,
[00:45:46] I don't believe in. I'm not going to go tell my guys, hey, I don't believe in this and we're going
[00:45:51] to do it anyways. No, no, no, no. If I don't believe in it, I got to figure out why we're doing it.
[00:45:55] And I'm going to say, okay, boss, I do not understand why we're doing this. I don't see how this
[00:45:59] is going to help us win the battle. So, so you need to explain this to me. So, I can explain it to
[00:46:03] my guys because I'm not going to go lie to them. I'm also not going to go down there and say, hey,
[00:46:07] we're doing this anyways or I'm not going to send people to do things that I don't believe in.
[00:46:13] We're all trying to win the war. My boss is trying to win the war. I'm trying to win the war.
[00:46:18] My guys are trying to win the war. So my boss is going to tell me do something that doesn't
[00:46:21] make sense and doesn't, isn't logical to win the war. So, I should believe in it. And if I don't,
[00:46:27] then I should question him. And those are those are the things that allow you to build relationships
[00:46:34] and will the topic of the night again ownership. If you take ownership when there's problems
[00:46:39] and you get them solved and then when things do go right, you pass that past the reward and the
[00:46:45] credit onto your boys, then that also helps you build those relationships. So, that's what I would tell
[00:46:53] a new leader in the business world or a card. If I should have said that one's like number one,
[00:46:59] or a card. Yeah. Dang, that's another thing that whole answer what you just said applies to.
[00:47:07] It's another thing that applies to everything. Even, you say as a leader,
[00:47:11] you know, with the chain of command and all your guys that works with your kids, your friends,
[00:47:21] or just even in general, like you know at the gym. If you're, I used to work with this guy.
[00:47:26] And he was the nicest guy. He was the nicest guy. He'd always have compliments, but
[00:47:32] you know the kind of compliments that are kind of too good. Like man, I don't know. Let's say I'm wearing a
[00:47:37] new shirt. Man, that shirt is fucking awesome. And then he said, but he... I've never been told that.
[00:47:44] You're gonna have to come up with a different album. But he would do that kind of, he would say,
[00:47:50] you know, give you compliments, but just overdo it a little bit too much. Just a little bit,
[00:47:53] just to step outside of the realm of it being believable. So, the kind of work, he's got man,
[00:47:58] that's awesome trick. And then he walked away with everything that nightclub and he'd come back
[00:48:02] like me. Man, that is an awesome shirt. You know, it's hard to believe, given what I know about this
[00:48:07] person, that you're that into your shirt. Right. Just for you. Exactly. Exactly.
[00:48:13] And that would be a thing if there was other indicators. Right. So, it's a whole persona. So,
[00:48:18] it takes that, it takes you being consistent and all these things that you're saying are honest and
[00:48:25] consistent about it. So, the point of your story is that you didn't build a relationship with
[00:48:30] the guy because you didn't trust him. Yes, exactly right. So, you don't win your saying,
[00:48:33] tell the truth, you know, if it's bad, you've got to tell the truth, you're not gonna say,
[00:48:37] this guy, literally it's almost like he would only want to tell you good news. So, it could be,
[00:48:44] like he could, it's almost like he had this feeling like, even if he hated my shirt,
[00:48:48] I thought it looked whack or something like that, he would, he would still, oh, that's a,
[00:48:53] that's a cool shirt. And you know, this brings me to another point. And that is balance.
[00:48:58] And then I talk about balance all the time because all these things have to be balanced. And when
[00:49:04] you're talking about truth right now, you have to be tactful, you know, being truthful and being honest,
[00:49:12] does not give you permission to be a jerk. It doesn't do that. And so, there's a difference between,
[00:49:19] you know, oh, I don't like echo shirt. So, I'm gonna say, dude, that's an ugly shirt, right?
[00:49:23] And just like in when you're working with, you know, subordinates and they screw something up,
[00:49:27] you know, you're, you know, that was a horrible job. You let me down. No, no, okay. Hey,
[00:49:33] well, first of all, you want to take ownership of it. Yeah, obviously, they didn't give you good enough guidance.
[00:49:36] But the, the point that I'm trying to make is being honest with people, there's people that are
[00:49:42] blunt honest leaders and everyone hates them because they're so blunt. They don't have any tact.
[00:49:48] They don't, they don't maneuver. They don't use jujitsu. They don't, they don't think and they don't
[00:49:54] assess the whole situation. And they think that if, if I tell echo, you know, if I want echo to use
[00:50:01] method A and echo's used to using method B, echo might have a personality that if I go up and say,
[00:50:07] hey, use method A now, I'm being blunt, I'm being frank. What does echo say to that? Echo's like,
[00:50:12] dude, I've been doing this a lot longer than you. I'm not gonna do method A. I'm sticking my method.
[00:50:16] That's real. I need to get, you know, so you've got to, you've got to influence people.
[00:50:21] You've got to be a chess player, not a checkers player. And so don't confuse being honest with being
[00:50:28] blunt and untaxful and adjirc. You have to do jujitsu. And for anyone that's listening that doesn't
[00:50:34] do jujitsu, jujitsu is a very nuanced game where you're constantly trying to set things up and shape
[00:50:43] the situation. It's not like boxing and boxing. I'm trying to punch you. You're trying to punch me.
[00:50:47] And jujitsu, you're trying to maneuver on the other person. You're trying to get better positions on
[00:50:51] them. You're trying to flank them and come in from a different direction that they didn't expect.
[00:50:55] That's what the art of leadership is. Anyone could go through a list of, hey, here's what you
[00:51:00] guys screwed up on the mission. One, two, three, four, five. Fix it. That guy's not going to be
[00:51:05] respect as a leader. Even though he's truthful and honest and blunt, it's not going to get him where
[00:51:10] he needs to be. There's a whole, another game to play with in. Yeah, and it's dealing with
[00:51:20] egos and it's dealing with personalities. That's really what it boils down to. Everyone has different
[00:51:24] personalities and learning how to be a craftsman that knows what tools to use with what different
[00:51:31] types of wood. That's what being a leader is. Yeah. If leadership was do these next seven things
[00:51:43] and you'll be a great leader, I wouldn't have a book and I wouldn't have a business because
[00:51:47] everyone would be a great leader. There is an art to it. It is a very difficult thing to do.
[00:51:53] It's simple. There are simple steps. You know, be honest. You know, show integrity, take ownership.
[00:51:59] There's those simple steps, but at the same time they're incredibly nuanced. That's what makes
[00:52:05] it challenging. That's what makes it so rewarding as well. That is absolutely what makes it so rewarding.
[00:52:19] People who don't take accountability. Don't take accountability.
[00:52:24] Play me in everyone else. How do you deal with people like that? And personally, how do you deal with them?
[00:52:35] Because I guess it would be the same way as you would professionally. Personally, it's all the same.
[00:52:39] These are the, these are questions that we get asked on a regular basis and we definitely got a lot of
[00:52:44] online. How do you deal with people that don't take accountability? How do you deal with leadership
[00:52:51] that doesn't get the message that you are communicating? Right? So just so we can both understand
[00:52:58] very out of the gate here. Both those questions. What do both those questions do?
[00:53:05] What this question? Both these two questions. They have something in common. How do you deal with people?
[00:53:10] People that don't take accountability and people that don't get the message that you're communicating?
[00:53:16] You're not taking accountability. It's your blaming these people. You're blaming them for not taking
[00:53:21] accountability. You're blaming them for not understanding your message. Who's fault is that?
[00:53:26] You're on a, if you take an extreme ownership, that's your fault. 100% of the time. So if I'm a leader
[00:53:31] and my people aren't taking responsibility for their actions, that's not their fault. It's my fault.
[00:53:36] I have not shown them how to lead properly. I haven't shown them how to take accountability.
[00:53:40] And how do you do that? Hey, you know, if echo does something wrong, I don't go echo. You screwed this up.
[00:53:47] I say echo. This went wrong. It's my fault that I didn't explain it to you well enough.
[00:53:52] I'm not going to talk to you, baby. But like, hey, you know, what do we do wrong? How do we not?
[00:53:56] How do we, how do we make this happen? You know, you've got to take ownership of it. And that's
[00:54:01] what does that make echo do? That makes echo say, oh, you know what? No, it was my fault. You know what I mean?
[00:54:08] So both those questions. How do I, how do I solve those problems? I take ownership of them. That's
[00:54:14] number one. Number two, what do I do? Because to take ownership of them is in quite enough here,
[00:54:20] we need to, we need to be smarter than that. We again, we need to play chess. So what I always try and
[00:54:25] do from a leadership perspective is I always try and understand the perspective that other people
[00:54:32] have. This kind of goes to detachment. I got to detach from my own head and I got to see it from
[00:54:37] their perspective. So I can understand what does it look like from Echoes viewpoint. What does it look like
[00:54:43] from my most junior guy that's not doing what I want to do? Why isn't he doing what is he singing
[00:54:49] from his perspective? What is it? Okay, my boss doesn't understand what I'm trying to communicate to him.
[00:54:54] Guess what? What is his perspective? How do I detach from my own head? See what his perspective is?
[00:55:00] Because once I see his perspective, I can adjust it. Right. So it's very important to try and
[00:55:05] understand other people's perspectives. And it's usually not that hard. People are often, you know,
[00:55:12] pretty easy to read. And as soon as you leave your own head and get into theirs, you'll see how
[00:55:18] you can change this scenario and make them understand it better. So those are two big pieces.
[00:55:26] Yeah, that's another one that applies to everything. And how you were saying these are simple steps
[00:55:35] but simple but not easy. Yeah, come on, man, to get out of your own head and you know,
[00:55:43] it's hard. It definitely is challenging. Especially in these pressure situations where
[00:55:47] situations where emotions are evolved and you start getting fired up, people are yelling orders,
[00:55:54] you know, capital at risk or jobs at risk or lives at risk. It's definitely hard to do that.
[00:56:00] And guess what? Those situations where it's hardest to do are the most critical times where you
[00:56:06] need to step back, calm down, step outside your own head. Don't see the emotions. Let your
[00:56:13] ego go. Understand other people's perspectives. That's when you need to do it the most. Yeah.
[00:56:19] Oddly enough. So what would you say is your most difficult day in the military or can you even
[00:56:29] single one out? And how did it affect you or shape you or you know, put you forward, you know,
[00:56:40] the time I was in the SIL Team for 20 years. And it was awesome. It was, I became
[00:56:50] even called a job because it was so fun and surrounded by great guys and even overseas. And I
[00:56:57] rack I was having an absolute fantastic time the whole time. The obviously those were the best
[00:57:06] days of my life being a combat leader in a combat situation. That's what I wanted to do my
[00:57:14] whole life and when I was there, I knew that and those were the best days of my life. And
[00:57:18] encompassed inside those great days are obviously the worst days of my life. And no doubt
[00:57:34] the worst days of my life were the days when my guys got killed. And Mark Re, first SIL killed an
[00:57:44] Iraq, Mikey Montsour, second SIL killed an Iraq who's posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor
[00:57:52] for jumping on a grenade to save three of her other teammates. And Ryan Job, who was severely
[00:58:00] wounded, blinded in both eyes after he was shot in the face who made it home. And eventually,
[00:58:09] after his 22nd surgery to repair the damage that would have done to his head and face, he died as well.
[00:58:21] And the day that was the absolute worst was when I came home from deployment. And I didn't have
[00:58:34] those guys with me. And I was coming home to my family, to my kids, to my wife, and they weren't.
[00:59:04] And how it affected me as far as my military career goes, I truly understood what was
[00:59:31] it's stake in combat. And when I took over training out on the west coast, I was obsessed
[00:59:46] with making the training as realistic as possible. And getting the guys that were going overseas
[00:59:55] to Iraq and Afghanistan, getting them as prepared as they could humanly possibly ever be to be in
[01:00:02] these worst case scenarios. And I remember, you know, I remember we'd set up these scenarios that were
[01:00:12] very, very difficult. I mean, unbelievably difficult. Like you were going to have massive challenges.
[01:00:19] And I remember I'd see a guy like, for instance, in an urban environment and training. I'd see
[01:00:27] a guy standing in the middle of the street, you know, like, which you would not want to do if you were
[01:00:32] in Ramadi in 2006. And I'd see, and I would get this feeling, I'd get this sick to my stomach feeling
[01:00:39] because, like in the back of my mind, I'm waiting for rounds to start hitting the ground and kill
[01:00:44] the sky or wound him and I would, you know, get fired up and you know, explain to him, listen,
[01:00:53] you can not, you got to move from cover to cover. Don't be standing under the street. There's no cover
[01:00:57] fire going on. And that's how it affected me as far as my military career and how it affected
[01:01:05] me in my life. You know, I've already told you how it affected me. Those guys, I'm trying to honor
[01:01:10] them by living the best life I can and taking advantage of the freedom that they bless me with.
[01:01:26] So, I'm going to go to the, yeah, another question from online here.
[01:01:34] Hmm, how'd you come to know the darkness and how does it motivate you
[01:01:42] dealing with it and using the light to win?
[01:01:48] Is this a Star Wars question?
[01:01:52] Kind of a fun, too, first part, because you're talking about the darkness and the light.
[01:01:56] I don't know about it. It's definitely something that I, it's definitely something that I think about,
[01:02:07] you know, and the world is in evil place and there's a lot of evil in the world. There's pain,
[01:02:18] there's suffering, there's disease, there's evil, there's war. I mean, there's bad things in the world.
[01:02:24] Yeah. And sometimes people ignore those things and, you know, we talked about this with Jill
[01:02:36] Rogan quite a bit, you know, we can live in a bubble here in America, whether almost is no pain
[01:02:42] and there almost is no suffering and there almost is no violence and there almost is no evil.
[01:02:46] And for some reason, I've always stepped outside that bubble and looked and seen what the rest of
[01:02:55] the world is like. And so I think that's a counter to what a lot of people believe the world is like.
[01:03:07] And so for me, that darkness is always present. It's always there.
[01:03:11] And at the same time, there is light. And there is people that are incredibly generous
[01:03:20] that sacrifice greatly that give everything they have to serve other people. Doctors,
[01:03:33] nurses, firefighters, there's all these people, teachers. I mean, there's just people that do all
[01:03:40] they can to help other people and, and to do good in the world. And so I think that's what I try and
[01:03:49] balance in my mind. And I don't want people to think that I sit around and brood all day about the
[01:03:58] darkness, you know, because I don't, you know, I mean, I love that a good time and laughing and,
[01:04:07] you know, smile and I want to do that, you know. But I also, in those moments, I'm definitely thinking
[01:04:15] that, you know, we're lucky to be here. Yeah, and doesn't that make like, you know, I don't know,
[01:04:20] a day where you're just kind of cruising to whatever and, you know, looking for a laugh or whatever,
[01:04:24] and hanging with your friends or whatever. Doesn't don't those days seem a lot more enjoyable when you do have
[01:04:30] the darkness in mind, you know, where even, I mean, you know, your kids, so let's, I don't know,
[01:04:38] your daughter spills the milk and laughs about it. Right. If you know what the rest of the
[01:04:47] world is like, that's going to seem almost enjoyable. That's funny. That's cute. You can recognize
[01:04:54] you. All the great things about that little moment. It's a lot easier to recognize the great things
[01:04:59] about that little. Exactly. If you understand, if you think that, yeah, the world's all hunky
[01:05:03] Dorian milk's never supposed to be spilled and, you know, all this stuff and everything's perfect
[01:05:07] and sweet and that's kind of your mindset and all they spilled the milk, that's a disruption.
[01:05:13] And you're like, yeah, that's your dot, but yeah, that's my dot sure. You know, I see my daughter
[01:05:17] every single day, you spilled the milk. That's a disrupt. You know, so it's kind of that, that, that,
[01:05:22] you know, without hardship, there can be no pleasure kind of contrast that kind of,
[01:05:28] it's brought out more, huh? No doubt about it. No doubt about it.
[01:05:36] I say everyone's in a while, uh, you'll hear people going, man,
[01:05:42] like this country is going like violence or whatever, you know, like going down the
[01:05:46] jitter or all this stuff. And you kind, if you think about it and
[01:05:52] let's say you're normal day, maybe not you, but probably you too, you're normal day. If you,
[01:05:58] let's say you got up, you worked out, you went to the store. Like, let's say, oh, I want to get a
[01:06:02] pomegranate, wait, T yet. 70 left. And you go in your sunny and limon, the guy in front of you
[01:06:08] gets into a heated argument with a cash, guy, the cashier. And it starts swearing at them and
[01:06:16] like, oh, you, I don't like these prices yelling, just yelling at them. And I can use a get out of here
[01:06:22] and you know, anything's right, screw this place using profanity, get some card speeds away.
[01:06:27] Right. Didn't break any laws, just that happened right in front of you. You, I would, we would probably
[01:06:33] remember that for a while. All it was was a yelling mess. It's not it was no violence, no laws being
[01:06:38] broken, no, no, no physical, anything. Just the argument between two people and some disrespect.
[01:06:44] Some disrespect. Exactly. You remember that. That would, that would be a significant incident
[01:06:52] in your day. That's how good the world is or your environment. That's how good this country is.
[01:06:58] Yeah. You know, of course, you know, that we're talking about a spectrum here. You go in certain
[01:07:02] areas. It's going to be a little worse. But keep in mind, like, in our environment, I know here in San Diego,
[01:07:08] that's essentially how it is most of the time. If you see two people, almost get in a fight,
[01:07:13] that's a significant event right there. Yeah. So overall would say, there's a lot of light around
[01:07:20] here. There's a lot of light. You know, so I think that if you think about, and you've been
[01:07:26] exposed to it, so dang, you can really have a, have an accurate perspective. The light is very
[01:07:34] noticeable. You know, if you can, if you can constantly have that contrast and know it,
[01:07:38] you know, there's no doubt about that. When, when do you see you go get in the way? Like,
[01:07:49] when is it most prevalent, do you think it's so prevalent every three? And this is, uh,
[01:07:57] when I saw this question, I immediately thought of, um, this guy who's ego just completely got in
[01:08:05] the way and he was able to fix it on this particular situation. And it was me. So, so this is actually
[01:08:13] a funny story. This guy, so we, uh, we started working with a company and the company,
[01:08:20] had a pretty young CEO and he was a super smart guy and he had played football in college,
[01:08:27] a suit, you look D1 football player, just a pretty bad ask guy, super smart, super articulate.
[01:08:36] And when I met him, I, I like, there was a little tension between him and me. There was a little
[01:08:44] something, there was a little tension. And I'm looking at this guy and I'm like, this guy really thinks
[01:08:51] he's a bad ass. And, and so we, we go through a meeting and we go through another meeting and
[01:08:58] there's just this tension. I'm going, yeah, this guy is definitely, he's got issues. He's got problems,
[01:09:04] looking this guy. And I can feel it come from him that he's thinking the same thing.
[01:09:10] Are you sure? Are you the thing in the same thing? I'm positive.
[01:09:13] Does he look in the mirror again? I'm positive. He's thinking the same thing. I'll tell you how.
[01:09:17] How I know that. So as I'm said there, so we actually did, did like a whole like two days with this company.
[01:09:23] And then we were coming back. And the next time we came back, I go, what's going to be like,
[01:09:27] this one I have this again, this guy, this asshole. I come back and, sure enough,
[01:09:34] there it is. I see him and he's like looking at him and he's looking at me and there's tension
[01:09:39] and all of a sudden I saw I detached from the situation and I looked at myself and I said,
[01:09:48] Jaco, you're an idiot because here I was and what was I thinking? I was jealous of the guy
[01:09:56] or, yeah, intimidated or jealous of it. First whatever the word threatened, I was jealous. I think it was
[01:10:01] jealous because he was a young guy that had been very successful made a ton of money.
[01:10:06] Yeah, we went to a big school and played ball and all that stuff and he had done all this stuff.
[01:10:14] And what was he thinking? He was looking at me thinking, oh this guy, he was a seal and he was,
[01:10:20] you know, a duet to guy and he's a badass and both of us were basically
[01:10:26] envious of the other one in some way and really what it was. I guess envious of the wrong
[01:10:30] word, our egos, both of our egos had impacted. And so as soon as I realized that,
[01:10:39] I was like bam, I immediately changed my attitude and I was like, and the next opportunity I had,
[01:10:45] you know, during a break or something, I was like, you know what? After working with you a couple of days,
[01:10:49] you're you're awesome. I said, what you've done is badass to be your age and be dominating
[01:10:55] and company like this and have raised it together and built it. That's awesome and made a ton of money.
[01:11:02] I love that. That's just badass man. I have nothing but respect for you and what you've done.
[01:11:08] And I actually want to learn from you all, I'm here. And immediately it was like a force field
[01:11:14] came down and he said to me, you know what? No matter what I've done in my life,
[01:11:20] it's never going to be what you've done. And after that we were broke, but I had to recognize
[01:11:27] the ego in the situation, mine and his and I just had to disarm it and then it was all gone.
[01:11:33] So it's a story about ego, my big ugly ego. And again, ego, you know, ego drives people to
[01:11:41] make people want to be successful and it has a lot of positives to it. But it can definitely get in the
[01:11:48] way. Yeah. You recognize that story. I mean, you realize like how that happens. Yeah.
[01:11:58] Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Fully, especially when you can see,
[01:12:03] man, I can't remember the exact words of how they, I forget even where I saw it. But it was
[01:12:09] your threatened typically by something along the lines of if someone is like capable or there's
[01:12:19] these things that people have to be in your eyes that makes them threatening to you. So what kind of
[01:12:25] put real loosely, when you see someone who is essentially you, you're going to feel threatened.
[01:12:32] And it doesn't have to be you like they're the same height as you, or the same race as you,
[01:12:36] in that act. There's some kind of equivalency that entends you in a lot of that intimidate your ego.
[01:12:41] Yeah. So if you get someone who's let's say you're kind of built, like you for example,
[01:12:46] if someone's kind of built, boom, that's one thing. If he's around your save, age, it kind of depends
[01:12:52] because it can be if there are a functioning able adult, put it that way. I'm so guy.
[01:12:58] Kind of your built, boom, boom, boom, boom. Those are all these other things that it's
[01:13:02] live like dogs and it's funny to see like it happened like especially at the gym. When someone
[01:13:07] a new guy walks in and he's kind of built, watch everyone's eyes go to, you know, like ears pop up.
[01:13:13] Yes, fine. And yeah, that goes everywhere. Business world. You know, girls have a bad man.
[01:13:18] My experience for a little nissy. I don't know. I don't know what they see other girls. You know?
[01:13:24] Yeah. With that that. Yeah. It's funny. Do you want to go, uh, do you want to go over these as well?
[01:13:31] You know what? I think I, I think I, from my, coming from myself. Okay. But anyway, where do you
[01:13:39] you say? Proceed with your questions. Okay. So, um, conspiracy theories, right? You know,
[01:13:49] how, um, you know, people, they'll, they'll go into the, certain conspiracy. Right.
[01:13:55] I also, or in 9, 11, the inside job or recently the, um, the San Bernardino shootings like that was,
[01:14:03] you know, what they're saying, the government staged it or whatever. Um, do you ever engage
[01:14:12] with people about conspiracy theories? I haven't engaged with anyone about conspiracy theories.
[01:14:20] So, do you, when you hear like a new, for example, okay, if you're, you're not really on Facebook,
[01:14:25] but, um, we'll just say online, you can see people expressing their opinions about the conspiracy
[01:14:35] theories that they believe it. Um, and they're really overt us. Let's say, for example, someone
[01:14:45] expresses their feelings about a certain conspiracy theory to you. Do you, on what level do you
[01:14:54] entertain that? Not very much. Just kind of across the board? Yeah, not very much across the board.
[01:15:02] I'm not trying to convert people and make people think things and, um, and, and I'm definitely
[01:15:13] not going to expand a bunch of energy diving into things that are, not worth diving
[01:15:24] into. Yeah. Um, you know, with conspiracy theories, you can tie anything to anything.
[01:15:36] If you want to, I mean, any major global occurrence that's happening will be tied into the
[01:15:43] rest into some way to craft macaroni and cheese. I mean, there will be a connection to craft
[01:15:51] macaroni and cheese if you dig deep enough. There'll be an employee. There'll be a purchase. There'll be a
[01:15:56] plant. There'll be a farm. There'll be a, there'll be a sales. There'll be a stock. There'll be some
[01:16:01] connection between that and whatever incident that happened on the globe. And if you want to formulate
[01:16:08] those and tie those pieces together, you can do it because the world is connected. And when people say,
[01:16:14] oh, this corporation was involved in some way with this incident in this war taking place.
[01:16:24] You say, well, yes, you know, there are big giant corporations that have huge interests around the
[01:16:31] world. And they're going to protect those interests. And that's what the world is made of.
[01:16:36] So, I don't do a lot of debating about conspiracy theories. No.
[01:16:45] There you go. Somebody sent me a link to like a
[01:16:51] video about 9-11 and I clicked on it. And it was something like eight hours long.
[01:16:58] The video was eight hours long about, you know, and I just thought, well, okay, you know, again,
[01:17:09] if you want to, you can connect anything to anything if you want to. That's the way the global
[01:17:16] world is, the global economies. It's the way things are. Did you watch the whole video?
[01:17:22] I watched until I saw it's at eight hours.
[01:17:32] I know we got some questions. Questions about blood meridian. I think that those
[01:17:43] that book, which is obviously a very powerful book, it's, I think we got to save that for the next podcast.
[01:17:50] I know we got quite a few questions about Chris Kyle. And, you know, people want to know
[01:18:00] if I knew Chris, if I worked with Chris, and the answer is yes, Chris Kyle was the
[01:18:11] lead sniper and point man in Charlie Patoon, which was Lave Babbins. He was the the officer
[01:18:17] and charge of that Patoon. And that was in Task Unit, Brusher, which I was the commander of. So we absolutely,
[01:18:25] you know, knew Chris and worked alongside Chris. Lave was on every mission for all practical
[01:18:34] purposes that Chris was on. And, you know, I, you know, Lave and I spoke at Chris's memorial service
[01:18:44] in Calboy Stadium. I mean, it's, so yes, we, we know Chris very well. And at some point, we'll,
[01:18:55] I'll get Lave on here and we'll, we'll talk about Chris, Tom, and tell some stories about Chris that
[01:19:01] would, you know, provide a perspective that may not have been seen in the, the portrayals that
[01:19:07] I've been given so far. So I think we, we need to hold off on that one and maybe just do one more question here.
[01:19:16] Do you have any friends that aren't,
[01:19:21] well, that aren't military and that are not duty to or MMA guy? Yes, I do. I do mostly musicians.
[01:19:30] I should say, most of the musicians. Surfers. I got some, I got quite a few friends that are
[01:19:35] that surf. I surf and out here in California. And, uh, and I got some friends that play music and,
[01:19:43] you know, we, we rock and roll. Yeah, and that's something that I actually forgot. I knew you
[01:19:51] thought, I was saying you knew that you surf, but that you played guitar. Yes. Would you like
[01:19:57] to put band or something? Yeah, I was in bands by whole life when I was growing up and I was a kid.
[01:20:01] Yeah, it's funny, like a lot of successful people or people who, you know, they always have all
[01:20:09] these skills. Yeah. And what's interesting is that, like surfing and playing guitar, like that's not
[01:20:17] easy, you know, it's not, I mean, I'm not going to, I'm not going to talk about golf, but golf is
[01:20:23] seems like, oh, hey, you just go out and play golf and show some people they get good and great,
[01:20:27] you know, and it is fun and stuff, but it's not like surfing, you know, and surfing is fun and
[01:20:34] maybe I'm really, there's a little bit more of a physical challenge. Yeah, some more of it,
[01:20:38] and a challenge and a challenge that it shows when you are good at surfing or not good at
[01:20:45] surfing shows, you know, seemingly, I don't know, I guess that's just my opinion, but it's always
[01:20:50] interesting, like the play guitar, sure. Yeah, black belt and jeez. What's interesting
[01:20:55] is too, and these are some other, like I know some guys that are surfers and musicians and artists,
[01:21:04] and I want to bring some of those guys and talk to them because they have different
[01:21:08] outlooks on things and how to get good and what kind of discipline it takes and what drives them.
[01:21:14] I mean, you know, like you said surfing is challenging, surfing is cold, it's wet, it's dark,
[01:21:18] it's sketchy sometimes, and guys that do that their whole life, until they're
[01:21:24] seven to your 80 years old, that's pretty awesome. Yeah. We're on, we're at, um, so, so one more.
[01:21:36] Okay, yeah, last question, we'll, um,
[01:21:44] the time you wake up in the morning and why do you wake up at that time and what do you think about?
[01:21:53] Well, we, we talked about what time I wake up in the morning, but I think this last question is
[01:22:00] here, what do you think about before you go to bed at night? And, and really to me, I mean,
[01:22:08] to kind of close this out is the last question of, what do you tell people or what do I think?
[01:22:16] I think is most, is it, is it helpful, kind of lessons learned to close on?
[01:22:24] And I think one, one conversation I had with one of my, one of my guys, um, who is just a complete,
[01:22:34] awesome warrior, named JP and JP, how you doing, brother out there.
[01:22:41] Um, when we were going through training to get ready for Iraq and when you're, when you're going
[01:22:50] through steel training, you get, you learn, you learn all this information and they teach you all these
[01:22:54] things and you layer them on top of your brain and there's layers and layers and layers of these
[01:23:02] tactics and techniques and procedures and the layers can get so thick that you lose contact with
[01:23:11] the ground. And so we were out in training and I was looking at JP who is a stud and it was
[01:23:22] one of those situations where we're out in the desert but there's rocks and there's little shrubs and
[01:23:26] all that and he was standing up in the wide open because he was staying in the formation of the
[01:23:34] patrol, the way that he was taught and the way that he had been indoctrinated is one of those
[01:23:38] layers as you're here and you stand here and this is your field of fire and you watch this area
[01:23:44] but what he had forgotten was that you're standing in the middle of an open area. Don't stand there,
[01:23:51] move to this little rock and then move to this little shrub and then move this little so that
[01:23:54] way if a bad guy looks he's not going to see you and if he does see you he starts shooting you
[01:23:58] have a place to hide and I said to him I said JP, my brother, he's like, what's up sir? I said hey man
[01:24:08] if you were 10 years old right now and we were out playing army out here, would you stand in
[01:24:13] the middle of this open trench right here? Would you stand here? And he's like, no,
[01:24:19] I said where would you stand? He said I'd go over there to that rock right there and I'd get
[01:24:24] behind that and I said so you're 10 year old brain is doing better job moving from cover to cover
[01:24:33] then you're 23 year old brain and I said listen you're instincts you know what the right
[01:24:40] thing to do is you know what it is do it and he did and it was amazing and and I think that people
[01:24:51] you me everyone people listening people that communicate with us you know what the right thing to do is
[01:25:00] you know what it is you know it's be disciplined you know it's work hard you know it's put your ego and
[01:25:07] check you know these things you just got to do you just got to do I think we're close that
[01:25:21] with that yeah so thanks to everybody for joining and we had a bunch of people on the
[01:25:28] on periscope that was pretty cool to watch and we'll see how this one goes and we'll do some more
[01:25:36] in the near future yeah I like the idea that people are really engaged with you online and
[01:25:44] and they'll ask you questions and you'll essentially confirm like check that that's a good
[01:25:51] question kind of thing you're engaging I think that's a good thing because these are real questions
[01:25:57] it's not like questions and we just thought up no that's a great question so yeah so I would say
[01:26:02] to yet encourage that to you know for people if they're wondering about stuff because this is
[01:26:08] in my experience everything that you've even said before this and even just stuff you said to me
[01:26:12] personally what it's all like it's really useful stuff and not just in business it applied the
[01:26:18] concepts I'll play it pretty much everything in life functioning in life if you can function with
[01:26:23] these concepts that you're gonna you're gonna do good it'll be kind of on you if you don't
[01:26:27] nothing to take that extreme all awesome all right thanks everybody for joining appreciate it we'll talk to you next time out here